"Wurth Electronics" aluminum electrolytic caps  - good, bad? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: cvanc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:00:47 pm
content: http://katalog.we-online.com/en/pbs/search/capacitorsHi troops-Never heard of Wurth for capacitors, any comments from the assembled braintrust? Are they respectable stuff? Thanks...

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:23:52 pm
content: Wuerth (voo-ert) is a major chemical company in Germany. You can be pretty sure they are not cutting any corners.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:28:59 pm
content: I agree on the cutting corners but I kinda doubt they are making their own. If you read their catalog, they do a bit of everything. Kinda doubtfull they are making LEDs, caps, connectors, diodes and a gazillion other things. I suppose their magnetics are their corebussines and the rest is outsourced.Just my guess.

author: exmadscientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:33:05 pm
content: I haven't tried their caps, but their inductors and connectors are top notchTheir LEDs are nothing special, but then an SMD chip LED usually isn't.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:51:09 pm
content: I use wurth for lots of stuff, its not the cheapest, but the quality is superb an they are easy to deal with.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:29:27 pm
content: Wurth is a renowned German company. Last 10 years they became a bit like Vishay: Selling almost everything. Funny about the caps because most major western capacitor brands seem to merge into Vishay while Wurth starts now their own division.I have used their polymer hybrid elcaps for a year now and they are top notch, very low ESR, good HF behaviour and available up to 50V DC. I wouldn't be surprised if their fabs are located in China though.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:36:16 pm
content: Wuerth even manufactures PCBs. Mostly the high-end ones using peculiar technologies like wire-laid for example. They are used a lot in automotive power electronics.Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:18:54 pm
content: I've had good experiences with Wurth in general, they are definitely not some Shenzen level product.That being said, I haven't got any experience with their capacitors.If their magnetics are anything to go by, they should be top notch. Their range of magnetics is quite large, they are quite eager (read: they expect coffee when they unexpectedly show up or maybe call) to talk and sample to small customers although it seems they do prefer to get some "big design" wins every now and then.I've also ordered some PCB's there; and they were superb quality. They do 4 layer boards for similar or better prices like EuroCircuits, arguably with better options. Students also get a discount I believe.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 06:24:39 am
content: If you are in Australia or NZ, and are "in the trade" ( ie, not hobbist ) then pm, and i can put you in touch with the sales team..Their datasheets are top notch, their web site really easy, they have great sample kits of parts avaialble for very resonable prices and they have online libarys and 3d models of all their parts online..They are not the cheapest, but you are buying quality parts.

author: benn
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 09:01:36 pm
content: I have been using a lot of wurth connectors in the last 15 years. Quality is above average. If compared to Ebay connectors, they are far more superior than those China made connectors. A lot of brands uses Wurth products and they are not cheap.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 09:56:04 am
content: I've used them a couple of times for repair replacements (sourced from Rapid here in the UK). Seem ok - still working and no explosions 4 years later. However I'm more of a fan of the Vishay/BC/Sprague ones as they are significantly cheaper, the range is wider and they are also never out of stock anywhere. Plus I have actually vent tested them and know they don't explode. Also I've used them for 20 years and never had a single failure.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 02:01:19 pm
content: Quote from: setq on August 14, 2016, 09:56:04 amWürth Elektronik (should be pronounced the German way) is basically a company similar to Vishay, Kemet or Tyco Electronics with a hand in a bit of everything. Probably mostly acquired by takeovers.I did look at a WE's caps once and the company said it was new terrain for them (w.r.t. inductors they seem to be pretty well known already).Most of our industrial customers stick to the well known brands, and I too count BC/Vishay among them, not just the Japanese big boys. Not until very recently did I see WE caps appear in a semi-industrial design, so perhaps we'll see more of them in the future.Did anyone notice a capacitor brand going "missing" at the same time WE introduced caps into their range?I did once with a British brand a couple of years ago (I forget the name) that was acquired by Kemet, that's why I ask.

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 02:04:47 pm
content: One should try sampling these caps from them.I assume it regarding my experience. I sampled a few flyback transformers from them and they were always very kind and helpful.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 08:37:10 am
content: Quote from: jitter on August 15, 2016, 02:01:19 pmNot sure who that was. They bought out Evox-RIFA a few years ago but I'm not sure if they were UK based. It's pretty difficult to find all the brand associations these days. Occasionally I'll order some generic Vishay parts and find some Sprague branded ones turn up. That's when you know. The finest being a £0.20 order from RS for two small electrolytics and Sprague extended life ones turn up! I'd have paid 20x that for them 15 years ago!

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 10:02:21 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 12, 2016, 06:23:52 pmYeah, no.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 09:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: setq on August 16, 2016, 08:37:10 amI remembered the brand: BHC.A couple of years ago we switched to these for a low volume (20/year) product. The BOM called for Vishay-BC caps, but at the time they had very long lead times and a rather high MOQ.The following year I found a mix of of the exact same caps, but some of the newer ones were now carrying the Kemet brand. Other than the BHC brand having changed to Kemet, they looked identical.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 04:24:59 am
content: I understand Wurth is making them in their own plant in China..I've used a few now, the alumium Polymers are really good for DC/DC conversion where you need low ESR.. Havn't had any go pop yet.Wurth has a good text "ABC of capacitors".. Extremely boring reading, but essential information!

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 02:25:02 am
content: Quote from: Watth on August 16, 2016, 10:02:21 amA basic understanding of English phonetics, and the dipthongs it is able to spell, or not, would have saved you the trouble.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 05:25:36 am
content: Yeah, that's how Würth sounds in German.I can tell that they had the narrator practice because the W must not be pronounced like a full on W (like in English or Dutch), it must have quite a bit of V-sound in it as well. If you listen closely, the very first pronunciation at the beginning is correct. The second one a tad later is too much W and too little V.

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 06:26:47 pm
content: Quote from: helius on August 28, 2016, 02:25:02 amWell, ue(de) = ü(de) = u(fr), a sound that does not exist in English.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 03:49:43 pm
content: The point is that the German ü (which is what "ue" in German is) is one single sound. It's not two vowels, and Watth was correct in correcting this.Edit: In standard German, the r does itself become a vowel at the beginning of a new syllable in some situations. (This isn't one of them, however.) See my other post below.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 05:24:23 pm
content: This reminds me of the film "Inglourious Basterds".What I find good about it is the use of the the different languages and actors native to those languages, rather than everything in one language (usually English in case of Hollywood productions), or voice overs.I will never forgetthis sceneabout how one can tell where one is from his or her accent.Interestingly, in this scene "München" (Munich) and "Frankfurt" are pronounced, clearly showing the difference between "u" and "ü".The " above the vowel changes the sound, when that symbol is not present on a printing device, "ue" is used instead to denote the "ü", soMünchencould also be written asMuenchen. And it's indeed a single sound.The " (calledUmlautin German) is also used on "a" and "o" to change their sound.In English I never saw the usage of the " other than in the name of the Brontë family.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 11:57:19 pm
content: My point is that the sound is a diphthong (a liaison between two vowel sounds). Some diphthongs can be spelled using the letters in English (oy for example), and others, such as ür, can't. It's little use to tell an English speaker how to say a word using letters that he doesn't speak; a situation exactly parallel would be a Xhosan saying "you spelled it with the wrong kind of click".

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 06:02:19 am
content: Sorry to repeat this, the German "ü" (or "ue") is not a dipthong, it's a single vowel. And as a result "Würth" does not have a gliding tone in the vowel.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 06:58:38 am
content: There's a reason I wrote "ür". In dialects which are non-rhotic (including High German), the letter R marks a vowel shift instead of a consonant. This mean that vowel+r is a dipthong.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 10:03:30 am
content: Just learn German. Its really not that hard. (yes, it is).Back to topic, Würth is trying to sell everything. And I think I will use everything from them what they are selling. Their pricing is very reasonable, once you understand that they go with a different strategy than others. ie Vishay sells its products at Digikey/Mouser with a relatively small margin, and you can expect the booking price to be ballpark the list price. While Würth sells ie ceramic capacitors for a flat 0.1 dollar pricing, and if you want better, you need to contact them. And you should do that when you are designing the product. I fear vendor lock-in a little bit with their inductors, but so far there wasnt any unexpected delays, price increase or anything.In any case, they are not for the consumer market, and I place reliability above a few cents of cost saving.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 04:25:31 pm
content: Quote from: helius on August 30, 2016, 06:58:38 amWell it doesn't quite work that way. For one thing, German isn't English, so English rhoticity rules aren't relevant. There has been discussion among linguists as to whether rhoticity exists in German, but it's not a generally recognized attribute. (I do understand what you're saying, and indeed wiktionary for example does notate "r" as a vowel following certain other vowels.)In any case, the rule you state is demonstrably incorrect. The shift in the "e" in German in "-er" happens ONLY with "e", not with any other vowel, and only at the end of a syllable. (For example, "Masse" vs "Wasser".)As a counterexample, the words "wie" and "wir" form a minimal pair differing only in the addition of the final "r" — the "i" vowel remains unchanged. (It does amuse me that in standard German, "wir" is a two-syllable word. I speak German with the hard "r", so it's just one syllable for me.)</linguist>

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 04:59:50 pm
content: Agreed, I still think it's only to do with asound shift.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 07:24:49 pm
content: and it changes how the caps work how?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 07:44:00 pm
content: The electrons have to know which syllable they belong to!

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 07:47:46 pm
content: The umlaut is where all the electrolytes are.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 08:44:24 pm
content: Yeah, yeah...But seriously, in the end the original question can't be answered yet. All we have to go on now are datasheets, but WE have (or is it has?) no reputation yet.I do like the choice of the red printing and sleeving. Really stands out, so maybe that alone will earn them a reputation...

author: RobK_NL
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2016, 09:04:04 am
content: Quote from: jitter on August 30, 2016, 08:44:24 pmWell, they do have a seriously good reputation when it comes to their inductive components. Having used those for the past 10+ years, I have no hesitation believing the datasheets for their caps.The samples I have tested so far have proven my confidence right.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:31:42 pm
content: Just an FYI: a Wuerth bloke just confirmed this is a Wuerth factory, not just a rebadge.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:43:32 pm
content: While I will wait a bit on their caps just to let any early process issues get worked out, Wurth have a **SERIOUS** rep for quality parts in other areas.Now I am slightly puzzled as to what the unique selling point is, I mean a premium brand electrolytic is what it is, and I would need to see a reason to go Wurth rather then Pansonic/Nippon-Chemi/ whoever, which are already known quantities and already exist in my database.That said if there was a reason to pick their product I would probably not hold back on quality grounds.Regards, Dan.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:21:48 pm
content: Well, I don't think that WE is going to reinvent the wheel by starting a factory from scratch and building knowledge from scratch.Confirming that they're not rebrands only means that they own the factory, not that they built it. They may have acquired it by a take over, which in this day and age seems the most likely scenario. And a normal thing for WE, lots of acquisitions, just like TE.The fact that WE has a good reputation on (e.g.) inductors may not mean that much when it comes to something different.As an example, I will name Philips, which is a multinational that has its origins in the city I live in (my avatar shows theEvoluon, a landmark and related to Philips).Philips made some good things and some bad things. The former I would buy without thinking, the latter, I wouldn't go near, obviously. Same could apply to WE.I just found a thread in which someone confirms WE caps were made in China. That in itself doesn't mean that the quality isn't OK, but when I see the word "VENT" on a cap, my toes start to curl as it's always a cheap Chinese cap that goes under lots of different brands, some of them not even vaguely familiar. Only those brands seem to feel the need to print "VENT" on the sleeve of an electrolytic... and oh dear, look at this image:Now I'm really going to wait until WE's caps quality is confirmed... That may just be a CapXon (or similar) underneath...

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on September 08, 2016, 04:21:48 pmThe guy confirmed that this is the case for some of their connectors (they recently took over an Italian company), that they buy the dies for the LED but do the chip packaging themselves and that they set up the elco factory.Then again, this was a rep, so it's not entirely impossible he's full of s**t

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on September 08, 2016, 04:30:25 pmFirst of all, originally you only said they were not rebrands. Rebrands are made by someone else (not owned) who puts your brand on it. If they bought (owned), say, CapXon, they could legally say they're not rebrands.Second of all, I don't trust sales people, and I agree, they'refull of shit... let's put it a bit more mildly... creative with the truth.But lets get back on topic: quality! If they impose stringent quality controls (whether they set up the factory from scratch or did a take over, it doesn't matter), it should earn them a reputation. But that takes years, and WE has only been at it for ~2 years now.Edit:I can't help but find some very conspicuous similarities beteen WE caps and CapXons... That "*-NEG"-marking is just waaay to similar to be a coincidence. I mean, if they were going to "borrow" a style, why not one of the reputable brands, just to get the psychological effect? Meh, I wouldn't be surprised they now own CapXon, but let that brand coexist with WE's own... and they did indeed setup a new factory with their knowledge. If that should be the case, the sales rep would have been telling the truth after all (while leaving out certain details).Edit: I linked in a photo from a different source in my previous post. Originally, it linked to one from WE itself but that link became inactive in less than a day... I wonder why...