Hilarious design job - anyone want it...! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 09:59:09 am
content: I regularly get random emails with requests to design stuff - this one is particularly hilarious...QuoteTheir websitehttp://wds-global.com/QuoteI think I may have burned bridges with my reply to them.....Quote

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:18:54 am
content: Their facebook site is also a treat:https://www.facebook.com/WorldDevelopmentSystemsI particularly like the repurposed ESD bracelets:https://www.facebook.com/WorldDevelopmentSystems/photos/a.519698021446260.1073741830.500426943373368/721307674618626/?type=3&theater

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:20:06 am
content: quote "Do you have a "therapy" room, or a special place for meditating or relaxing? If you do then you are going to love this: Introducing the "Silent Healing" CD - download a FREE 5 minute sample to try it for yourself (no registration required).http://ascension-support-tools.com/silent-healing-cd.aspxThe WDS Silent Healing CD plays no music at all. Play it and you won't hear a thing. And yet that doesn't mean nothing is happening, because when you play the CD it broadcasts a package of remedial energy patterns into the room which creates a sacred space of peace. This CD will help you to improve the space in your living room if you want to meditate or just relax into a peaceful zone. If you have trouble sleeping, especially if you suffer from busy mind syndrome, then you also might like to try playing this in the bedroom - it has helped many people to get a better quality of sleep."WTF?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:26:23 am
content: QuoteQuoteWow, these must be some nutjob people, who want to live forever as an energy lifeform! While this is fine in Space Odyssey, I would stay clear of them, before they start murdering people with your device, to "make them live forever on a higher level of consciousness".

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:27:48 am
content: The company World Development Systems Ltd shown on their website does not exist according to Companies House.CORRECTION - The company does exist and is registered at Companies House.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:39:06 am
content: There's another WDS Global that's in the telecom business.Also at the same address :http://wds-bio-resonance.com/default.aspxQuantum Medicine

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:50:07 am
content: But as far as specs goes and knowing what they want, that's pretty good!The latest one I turned down got a tad upset about how blunt I was in my replyHe obviously hadn't done research on who he was emailingIt was a "great business idea" based on NFC cards that will "revolutionise the way we do things". Yeah, sure.I don't get crackpot ones all that often though, they are more fun.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:51:33 am
content: But they has this marvelous technologyQuote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:53:11 am
content: They have a youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJ3ZiLLbHwCyfzqygRIDXQI take no responsibility for you pressing play

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:53:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 27, 2016, 10:51:33 amAnd all that from a small farmhouse in Worcestershire....

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:58:28 am
content: 8kV @ 60MHZ !! Might as well just go stick your head in a microwave!!

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:07:50 am
content: They are not far from me, maybe I should pop by and discuss their project

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:11:03 am
content: QuoteIs that even a word?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:11:45 am
content: Quote from: max_torque on September 27, 2016, 10:58:28 amI wonder what they've budgeted for EMC testing? Could be a nice little never-ending consultancy job right there.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:13:09 am
content: Jesus, just read their website, they should team up with Noel Edmonds!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3634373/JAN-MOIR-Noel-know-insults-victim-cancer.html

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:14:25 am
content: "peddling", not "pedalling".

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:20:03 am
content: QuoteYou aren't sure if it's working or not until you die?QuoteSome switches from Behlke comes close to this.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:23:32 am
content: Been to their sister site?http://computerclear.com/"But help is at hand in the quest for EMF Protection! The Computer Clearsoftwarefor Microsoft Windows useshomeopathic techniquesto strengthen your body's natural resistance to theEMF radiationthat comes off your computer. It is no exaggeration on our part to say that Computer Clear has transformed people's experience with their computer."

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:32:27 am
content: Quote from: max_torque on September 27, 2016, 10:58:28 amMy guess is they want to use it to "charge' woo-woo stones or whatever.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:44:46 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 27, 2016, 09:59:09 amPossibly.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:46:20 am
content: Try asking "As honest communications and a shared understanding of physical reality are essential to a successful designer-client commercial relationship, do you actually believe the claims on your website?"

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:04:09 pm
content: You could probably give them an empty box with some stickers on it and a blinking light, and they'd never know the difference. Would serve them right. If they want to know how it works, make up some bullshit about antennas and channeling energy, and how everything is connected to everything else.

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:10:09 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 27, 2016, 09:59:09 am

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:32:37 pm
content: My opinion would be to design it unless it is unsafe. If it blows your head like with a microwave than you shouldnt design it. Its just easy money.Dealing with this stuff be it magic, voodoo, Ascension, energy i can tell you for a fact that none of these need any electrical or emf to help, infact emf is anti productive for this things and magnets dont do a thing either so those magnet bracelets for healing really dont do a thing. The best advice for anyone who wants to dabble in this is self discipline. I used to haunt people in their dreams so i know what im talking about by saying no physical object is needed. You could always refer them to me for a crash course of ascension

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:32:50 pm
content: The ad sounds like it was from IBM. Full of, no credibility and nothing intelligible - just drivel.IBM has developed a reputation of stuffing up projects and failing to meet deadlines. And yet our government still blows our hard earned dollars on these jerks. Maybe the 8kV and the 60MHz needs to have the IBM CEO's head in between the plates to knock some sense into her.In today's news...http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-27/ibm-unlikely-to-hit-customs-and-immigration-merger-deadline/7882640And they totally stuffed up the Australian census...http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-head-of-the-abs-is-blaming-ibm-for-the-census-fiasco-2016-9You can't blame IBM entirely. Some of the blame must be made against the clowns who chose IBM.

author: botcrusher
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:50:10 pm
content: To add to the list of their recent f*k ups, add the Canadian Government's new payroll system...

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 27, 2016, 11:20:03 amHow do you even measure that frequency/voltage??? al probes have a huge derating with frequency

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 27, 2016, 09:59:09 amSounds like a great project to me IF they can add a zero to the budget (at the left side of the dot ofcourse).

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on September 27, 2016, 02:49:29 pmYou probably have to build your high voltage probe, to get this high frequency measured stable.Not impossible.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:22:51 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on September 27, 2016, 02:49:29 pmVery, very carefullyHigh voltage high frequency probes do exist and are quite expensive. Or you can probably guess it from the effects of it on the aura field of the quantum chackra?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:33:47 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on September 27, 2016, 03:06:37 pm... but surprisingly difficult in practice.The Tek 6015 (a bargain at £1600) is 20kV/75MHz, but - as is usual with probes - not at the same time. See figure 1.4 inhttp://www.tek.com/high-voltage-probe-manual/p6015aYou could have 8kV 6MHz, or 60MHz 1.5kV-ish; I doubt their customers would notice any difference

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:44:50 pm
content: I'd take the £2k for this job but only 100% up front.I'd send them a box with some potted sand in it and a mains lead attached.If it didn't work I'd tell them they didn't believe in it so it didn't work.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:08:00 pm
content: Or just repackage one of these:http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bite-Shield-Electronic-Racket-Zappers-with-Protective-Grids-RZ02C/100616483Every now and then they'll hear a "zap". You can tell them that it's one of those arcs they warned you about, but your design is able to handle it.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:10:46 pm
content: Genius!

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on September 27, 2016, 03:06:37 pmOk, how. What is the technique. I'm guessing it must be active.As mentioned the tek hv probe gets derated at 1.5kV for 60MHz

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 06:55:43 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on September 27, 2016, 04:52:05 pmI would build a low capacity 1000:1 capacitive divider and probe it with a good high speed probe.The capacitance and resistance of the probe has to be included in to the system calculation.If you use a 200 MHZ differential probe, you can measure the voltages perfectly.This way you will get very good and repeatable results, since it is not a universal probe but specifically made for this application.I have done this for up to 60 kV or so.The Tek probe is great for slow signals but it loads the DUT a lot at very high voltages.Plus there are different P6015 probes around with different capacities.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 07:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: max_torque on September 27, 2016, 10:58:28 amWon't necessarily induce a ton of power.There are probably medical devices operating in this range, they use all kinds of weird shit in dermatology.

author: bitshape
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 07:56:36 pm
content: I bet they have lot's of snake oil for sale.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 08:04:18 pm
content: Well, meh, not entirely sure I'd no-quote it -- but, I'd want to be damn sure of the application and what kind of medium is between those plates (you know, for electrical purposes -- I don't care if they're cooking a chicken with it, or gluing plywood, orgluing ply-woo-wooor what), and what shielding they have around it (in particular, a full coverage Faraday shield to keep EMI inside and fingers outside; potentially limiting their intentions, but hey, there are exposure limits, on the lawbooks no less!), and I would quote no less than* five times their "expected" budget, with a lengthy product development and law and patent research phase just in case.*Meaning I'd start with at least double the figure, and negotiate from there.In any case, I'm guessing the outcome is the same... but Mike's approach to responding to them is definitely more efficientTim

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 09:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 27, 2016, 11:23:32 amHoly-moly, that's hilarious!I like how they also try and link EMF radiation with a legitimate medical complaint, Computer Vision Syndrome (CVS). CVS is nothing to do with with EMF, it's just caused by the eye's focusing muscles spending too long stuck in one position (i.e. staring at a screen) and excessive drying of the eyes due to lower blinking frequency when staring at a screen. The solution? Stop staring at a screen for so long! Get up and do something else!I'd love to get a hold of a copy of that software just to try and examine it's inner workings and see if it doesanythingat all, or whether it's just a bunch of placebo buttons and knobs.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on September 27, 2016, 11:11:45 amHalf of their dev budget... GBP 1000

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:19:23 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 27, 2016, 03:22:51 pmMr Pickles!! LOL!!That would be a fun probe to try and build as a home project, not!

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:28:39 pm
content: Have the Roohparvar's moved to the UK?Or - perhaps if Bob is following - he should apply for this opportunity.I'm sure their experience and qualifications are eminently suite to this con.

author: JimRemington
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:50:32 pm
content: QuoteThe strange thing about this specification is that they have a high frequency and high voltage in mind, but do not understand that "polarization" is a load.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:36:50 am
content: Quote from: JimRemington on September 27, 2016, 11:50:32 pmThe strange thing about this specification is that they have a high frequency and high voltage in mind, but do not understand<insert phrase here>.You can start with these:* the modial interaction of magneto reluctance and capacitive duractance* inverse reactive current as used in unilateral phase detractors* metapolar refractive pilfrometer* the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitive perlwell and a supernative weinal sprocket

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 01:35:54 am
content: Voltamort would be happy to consider your offer for 2000 pounds...Time to get some large scale glasswork equipment...because you know where this is going...a giant ass water-cooled transmitter tube (valve). Just make sure I sign off all liability...and warn of x-rays (I'm sure they like X-rays)Then we wait..."Experiment Turns DeadlySeveral people were found dead yesterday at a new age healing facility. The police were called after a woman heard screaming coming from the building. Apon arrival, several members of the society were already dead. There bodies were found electrocuted and covered in RF burns between two large metal plates in the center of the room. These plates were connected to a large glass device covered in wires and pipes marked "Voltamort Labs 8K60MC" which was still very hot and glowing. A quote from one off the officers on the scene was "The air was so full of electricity that I could feel my hair standing up". The machine was promptly switched of to prevent any further harm. Investigators later discovered that the facility signed a realese of liability with manufacurer of the device, Voltamort Labs. A survivor of the accident claims they were trying to"But seriously, what is the current potential of this voltage they are using? Because in all likelyhood these idiots could actually kill themselves.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 02:38:21 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on September 28, 2016, 01:35:54 amWell.............If we suppose wave-of-the-hands plate sizes of 1m x 1m and 1m spacing, that's 8.84pF.Except it's more because of fringing, and it's more again because of self-capacitance (basically, field that's fringing out the back side, over to ground, and back up again to the other side). Probably more like 20 or 30pF?At 60MHz, 30pF is 88 ohms reactance. 8kV into 88 ohms is 90A and 723kVAR.At a respectable Q of 500 (you'll need a pretty healthy spool of litz cable* to achieve this), you're still dissipating a toasty 1.45kW, which will need quite a bit of electrical power (which is actually available, from a UK wall outlet), and will quickly warm up the office (which is a nice feature, this time of the year).The coil will need to be tunable by tap setting, from 0.23 to 0.53uH. To handle 80A at up to 60MHz:*Regular litz cable craps out circa 10MHz, due to capacitance between strands. To keep going at higher frequencies, you need to increase the separation between strands. Likely, you'd have to build your own super-cable, using a cage structure. It might look something like this:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Solec_Kujawski_longwave_antenna_feeder.jpgYou might use many-pointed-star shaped insulating plates to support the strands in a cylindrical shell arrangement.This structure is then twisted into a modest helix, having the effect of circulating the strands between the inside and outside of the coil.The cable, thus described, gets wound onto a cylindrical form, to make a solenoid coil. Not very many turns would be necessary; maybe a single loop would be sufficient.Otherwise, solid tubing should be used, which will need to be quite large in diameter to achieve such a high Q. It will still get hot.Needless to say, the RF electric field around anything nearby will also be quite intense, leading topartial discharge, dielectric heating and corona discharge (even if not resulting in complete hot-arc type breakdown).Of course, any heating and average-power-consumption effects will be greatly diminished by duty cycle, if this is a pulsed application.As for the "pulsed DC" part of it, who knows. Do they mean to say they don't want pulsed wavelets of RF, but very short, unipolar pulses? Should they be alternating or consistent polarity (thus giving an average -- DC -- bias)? How much undershoot and rebound is tolerable, if any?Such signals can still be generated, but it requires very fast switches, such as a hydrogen thyratron, or a pressurized gas or liquid filled spark gap. The repeat rate certainly will not be up to 60MHz.Tim

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 03:25:47 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 28, 2016, 12:36:50 am

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 03:34:14 am
content: This is my proposal for them. It would take about 6 weeks to complete, but would go over budget by about 50..60%. See attachment(s) for details.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 03:44:50 am
content: It's not that hard to make that kind of power, all they need is a klystron tube.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 03:55:39 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on September 28, 2016, 03:44:50 amBut a total budget of £2,000, including design/research may be a bit tight. By a factor of x10, x100 or maybe even more. Depending on their exact requirements.What exactly do they want to do with this weird signal/voltage source ?What determines its specs ?

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:32:57 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 03:34:14 amIf you post that on a crwofunding site you'll get lots of funding, no doubt

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:45:03 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 03:55:39 amThe answer is. They don't know what the hell they are doing, they are just making shit up and rolling with it.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:56:29 am
content: Quote from: MasterTech on September 28, 2016, 05:32:57 amI think that on at least one or two occasions, as a joke. The engineers who write datasheets, have given their managers who sign off and agree/approve such documents, before publishing, have submitted similar (or very similar) datasheets, and in some cases it ended up being printed.E.g. There is a very funny (completely bogus), writeONLY memory chip device datasheet, floating about. Which was actually published.http://repeater-builder.com/molotora/gontor/25120-bw.pdfQuote from: Cyberdragon on September 28, 2016, 05:45:03 amAlthough a quick look at their website, would appear to be it has a rather poor basis in Science/reality/believability. I would still be very interested to know how/why those figures, of 8 KV's at around 40 to 60 MHz, came about. Maybe they are trying to recreate an existing scientific device or something ?8,000 Volts (with any kind of current/energy behind it), can be very dangerous. So if they have no idea what they are doing, it could even be dangerous.I'm just curious as to exactly what they want this strange oscillating voltage source for.Without knowing those details, it is a bit unfair to immediately criticize it as being a crackpot/wrong device. Although it still easily could be.

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:06:52 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on September 28, 2016, 02:38:21 amAssuming the RF source had enough grunt, I'd hate to think of level of dielectric heating that would occur if they put some poor SOB between those plates and operated it at a significant duty cycle (100% CW?)Dielectric heating (typically 10's of MHz RF, between two plates) is used in the food industry forquicklydefrosting cartons (typically 20 to 30 kg) of frozen meat. This method is used because it prevents the growth of bacteria on the outside of the chunk of meat that would otherwise occur with thermal defrosting whilst the inside of the chunk of meat is still thawing.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:38:11 am
content: It's basically going to electrocute anyone you put in between it. They are probably trying to "invigorate the body" by putting it in an electric feild. This sounds like some early 20th century quack medicine. But this will most likely end up being the eddy current electric chair...

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:42:33 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 05:56:29 amHere's their other website:http://computerclear.com/

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:53:01 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on September 28, 2016, 06:38:11 amJust like Dr Frankenstein

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:54:10 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on September 28, 2016, 06:38:11 am60 MHz current is at such a high frequency that it will probably have no effect on nerve impulses, therefore, no seizing of muscles and thus no electrocution.RF burns, dielectric heating, and resultant hyperthermia would probably be the cause of injury or death (you don't have to raise your body temperature much over 40 C to irreversibly denature your proteins, and cells with denatured proteins don't work - cooked meat).

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:00:12 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on September 28, 2016, 06:42:33 amOh dear...QuoteTheir claims are sounding suspicious. I thought there were laws in the UK, so any company selling stuff with false/bogus/nonsense claims, can be dealt with by being prosecuted etc.Maybe the idea was that "Mike's" contraption, could look the part with big flashing lights, and high voltage tesla coil like sparks flying about. To help them peddle, suspiciously misleading/dishonest products.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:34:52 am
content: Quote from: zl2wrw on September 28, 2016, 06:54:10 amSo what you're telling me is that they're making a human bacon cooker?

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:39:23 am
content: QuoteIt's called an "Ascend-o-Matic", thank you very much.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:24:54 am
content: So, their Woo-Woo needs 8KV peak to peak with 4KV DC bias. A pair of Philips TBW6/6000 75MHz water cooled transmitter triodes operating push-pull should handle the voltage swing easily enough, and for a floating bias supply, what about two stacks of 700 CR2016 batteries assembled in two layers of MDPE plastic gas pipe (25mm and 36mm) shielded by an outer metal tube or foil swinging with the anode so the insulation and batteries don't 'see' significant RF stress, and well bypassed with plenty of HV RF capacitors? Couple the plates directly to the anodes via the bias batteries and feed the lot from an adjustable DC EHT supply via a choke and a center-tapped inductor between the anodes.Tuning it at 8KV peak-peak and up to 60 MHz is going to be a stone bitch though. Maybe fixed tune it for 65MHz and run it below resonance, off a signal generator with a pair of beefy off the shelf linear RF amps as exciters?Parts cost alone is going to blow the **** out of their budget - a professional scrounger who's into transmitter valves can probably build the output stage for that, but then you need the DC supplies, water cooling, linears and signal generator . . . .

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:33:01 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 28, 2016, 08:24:54 amSo it would end up looking like this:It looks more like £2,000,000 or even £20,000,000 than a £2,000 job.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 09:10:55 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 28, 2016, 08:24:54 amDoes devices kick asss. How come we don't have IGBTs that can match that performance in 2016?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:35:53 am
content: By going on their website, and doing some searches. I've been able to get a better idea/picture about these sort of things.Disclaimer:Given the lack of information from the guy who wants this thing. I have had to fill in the dots, and could easily be completely wrong here.Some of their technical words, sound really fascinating.E.g.TherapiezentrumIt might look something like this:This youtube video shows it in action, including a number of patients. I'd suggest jumping forward to about (1:30) 1 min 30 secs, when it gets more interesting.In this short one, towards the end, they actually show it making huge electrical sparks!

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:47:57 am
content: Looks like a good money making machine, based on placebo effects.In the video they explain that a magnetic field in brought in to the body for healing purpose of back and other pain.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:51:25 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on September 28, 2016, 10:47:57 amThe second video (late edit to my post above this one), seems to talk about it helping with some cancers. Including Doctors and scientific papers. But I don't understand enough about it, to know how "real" it is.EDIT: I think I watched it too quickly the first time. I think they "wanted" papers, but he/they have NOT done them.tl;drI'm somewhat confused by this "thing". But I agree, it is probably a Placebo effect machine.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:56:12 am
content: Some idiots must be buying this crap.I've decided I'm going to sell 6VA transformers as anti EM pessaries.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:19:12 am
content: If they are pushing the thing in the UK as a Cancer treatment, that is specifically illegal (There is specific law dealing with Cancer Quackery, even oven the normal sort).Regards, Dan.

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:24:15 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 03:34:14 amWHAT did I just read ?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:31:05 am
content: Quote from: dmills on September 28, 2016, 11:19:12 amI don't think they are, but I'm not 100% sure (as in Cancer). But the other stuff they DO sell, may also be illegal for similar reasons. I think health claims, which are false and/or unsupported scientifically, i.e. unproven, CAN be prosecuted in the UK.What I'm especially NOT certain about, is the persons/organisations motivations.Do they really think their stuff works and should be researched/pursued. If so, I have a degree of sympathy ?Or are they trying to just make money, even if it involves effectively conning vulnerable people ?I'm still in two minds about this. An earlier youtube video (I did NOT link to it, but I can if anyone wants), seems to show the person who sent Mike the original email, talking on camera. They seem to be someone who mistaken believe their stuff works and is worth pursuing. Also there may be elements of mental issues.But on the other hand, reading through some of their adverts, makes me think it is more of a con.So I'm currently sitting on the fence, unsure either way.Quote from: razberik on September 28, 2016, 11:24:15 amHopefully it was obvious I was joking...

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:39:06 am
content: You should give them a proposal for an UPGRADED system, based on their original specs. Tell them that you have some knowledge of Homeopathy, and that switching 8mV @40 - 60Hz is even MORE effective than what they're proposing. Of course, if they want an even more effective system, you can switch at 40-60mHz...for a small additional "performance enhancement" fee.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:39:59 am
content: I'll let you make your mind up. I believe this video is the man who sent Mike the original email. He is talking about stuff which I think is highly likely to be false/mistakes/unscientific etc. Disclaimer: I've only very briefly watched it, as it is not interesting really, or believable.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:50:02 am
content: In this video, he shows off his electronic gadget machine thingie. Maybe this is an earlier version of what he wants Mike to design for him ?I can see a reasonably large box of electronics which would make a REALLY interesting tear down video for Dave.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:55:15 am
content: Quote from: setq on September 28, 2016, 10:56:12 amI'm gonna make a toroidal transformer phone charger, with a visible Faraday cage enclosure. So they can charge their phones, without all the EMC radiation. Then put the phone in their pocket, EMC worry free.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:01:46 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 11:50:02 amThat's a waste of a perfectly good instrument case that is!

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:31:14 pm
content: Quote from: setq on September 28, 2016, 12:01:46 pmI understand exactly what you mean. Does he really believe in his stuff ?Or is he conning people ?Apparently his research website, is here:http://wds-infinite-dipole.com/This might be related to the device:

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:32:49 pm
content: He's a fucking nutbag if he does.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:34:51 pm
content: QuoteNo. If he just did a limited amount of things (bullshit healing) then I'd believe he could really believe it. However, since they've got pretty much the equivalent of a "computer exorcism" and a very wide spread I shall assume that no, he is conning.

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 11:31:05 amYes it was, but firstly I thought you spent your valuable time for writing good looking article.But anyway, how did you created it ? Random text generator or assembly of random paragraphs with modified words ?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:45:55 pm
content: Quote from: razberik on September 28, 2016, 12:39:27 pmIt took me about 3 very longweeks days hours minutesseconds to create it, so I hope everyone appreciates thelack ofhard work here.I used one of the internets scientific nonsense generators. Specifically this one:https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 12:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: setq on September 28, 2016, 12:32:49 pmQuote from: daqq on September 28, 2016, 12:34:51 pmThanks, both of you.I tend to agree with you, but I still have some elements of lingering doubt. E.g. The youtube video, where he talks about nonsensical beings (Aliens) etc, both makes me think he may really believe that stuff, or that it is part of a wider con like plot on his part.Later on his research website, he even talks about "free energy ...". Dave is going to go BALLISTIC, and make an EEVblog ##9?? (I vaguely think he already made one about it), throwing all free energy theories into a giant Blackhole, forever.Apparently that will mean a new type of batteriser can be used to harvest free energy from that same Blackhole and light up, lot's of roads for free, while people drive on them ....http://wds-infinite-dipole.com/Example extract (from research website, in my earlier post):Quote

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 02:27:21 pm
content: I've been sitting here thinking about this for a bit.I'm not got the physical energy to watch the video without puking but we can't disprove aliens or other energy sources (note I'm not saying free energy here). However none of these phenomenon have been observed under scrutiny or are independently reproducible. Doesn't mean we don't need an army of infinite monkeys plugging away on the matter, disproving themselves over and over again. I think we should just leave them to it. After all, negative feedback went in the bullshit bucket for a few years. One of these monkeys might indirectly discover something useful by accident, like the dude who discovered that the grid in Edison's light bulb could control electron flow and invented the triode.Really though I'm convinced that the people who do this sort of stuff are either mentally ill to some degree I.e. have no rationality, are addicted to the following they have and are pressured to deliver more bullshit or are doing it consciously to obtain cash from wallies.The only one of those outcomes I have any problem with is the latter or directly doing harm. Taking them to task should be a matter of referring them to trading and advertising standards over bogus claims. They jump on that stuff like a seagull on chips.This guy is doing harm. Random youtubers, who cares.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 02:55:43 pm
content: Quote from: setq on September 28, 2016, 02:27:21 pmI would argue that this guy is definitely DOING HARM to others, potentially. Because in the longer video which shows one of his products, and later shows some of his other products, like the "crazy" "RPG lookalike" pipe tube, electronic house cleanser (NOT his description) device, which gets rid of bad energies or messes with stuff, or something. Then later he shows hismagicstones that he makes and sells.Because he seems to imply or even say that if the person (and it could be a vulnerable person) uses it, it can even cure/cope with disease (or words to that effect). I.e. A genuinely and dangerously ill individual, could believe his stuff works and buy/use it. Instead of getting life saving treatments from real/proper doctors.The end result is that people could die, from easily treatable diseases etc.tl;drIf this guy gets more active the authorities may need to step in.This guy reminds me of David IIcke.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 03:39:00 pm
content: QuoteOk so to increase your body's protection to EMF radiation you need to ...create more radiation around itNot a good buy though, since the more you use the device the less effect it has on you, as your "natural protection to EMF radiation" increases with each use

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 04:10:14 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 28, 2016, 02:55:43 pmFire the ASA + Trading Standards gun at him. Tempted to pull the trigger myself.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 04:13:33 pm
content: I don't think I've ever seen a report of one of these scammers getting busted, apart from the fake bomb detector guy.The problem is they often make claims so vague that it's hard to prove fraud. Unless they are actively making clear medical claims I suspect they're way down the list of priorities.If it was that easy, every homeopath, astrologer, psychic, crystal-healing nut & other similar charlatan would be at risk...

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 04:48:44 pm
content: Dog shit isn't on Royal Mail's no transit list. That's the old fashioned solution

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:02:43 pm
content: Quote from: setq on September 28, 2016, 04:48:44 pmUnfortunately, its restricted:"Human or animal samplesMay only be sent by, or at the specific request of, a qualified medical practitioner, registered dental practitioner, veterinary surgeon, registered nurse or a recognised laboratory or institution.The total sample volume/mass in any parcel must not exceed 1 kg. Solids only can be sent 5.7.34.3 All human or animal samples must be posted in packaging that complies with Packaging Instruction 650, such as our Safebox product.The sender’s name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging."https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/94/~/restricted-goods---personal-customersMaybe pretend to be the recipient and pay a local farmer to deliver a tonne of loose pig manure as fertilizer. Arrange delivery for 4PM Friday and leave a note on the garage door for the farmer "Sorry, I was called away to a personal emergency, please tip the fertiliser on the driveway"

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:09:32 pm
content: From what i understand is that the company wants to repeat the process of sending electrical pulses to the brain to "activate" some parts of it to trigger things. However at 60Mhz. 8KV, the pulses will fry the brain (it wont explode like a microwave as it is pulses), like an electroshock therapy without the shocking but what will really happen is that it will cause flashes, brain degradation, tumours and literally spoil your brain but wont cause instant death. It will mean going to the hospital sometime in the near future.So this project is literally unsafe for its intended use and no matter how much money is offered (even $20M for example), it should not be done.Essentially the air/head between the 2 electrodes act as a resistor and with 8KV it will penetrate the skin so it will be discharging a lot of energy. The resistance of skin is high but with enough volts, anything that passes the skin is lethal. There is a charge somewhere explaining how many amps will pass through the skin with what voltage and how lethal it is (including how many amps is tolerated and how many amps are unsafe). People say its the amps that kill but the amps is determined by the fundamental equation of V=IR. So if you increase the voltage you increase the amps that pass through the body and at 8KV the amps will be lethal.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:47:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 28, 2016, 05:02:43 pmI was thinking more of when they ask you at the desk 'what does it contain?' you answer 'gifts, non perishable or electrical'.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:00:42 pm
content: Yes, but you need it to be well enough sealed the counter clerk doesn't refuse it, packaged to survive postie abuse and yet sufficiently volatile that opening it will cause the contents to redistribute themselves round the vicinity without the use of illegal pyrotechnics. Its also got to be presented in a way that the recipient is likely to try to open the inner container. Unless you know someone who's about to decommission a canning plant and can run a case full of slugs of pig slurry frozen with dry ice through the line just before its all scrapped, that's going to be difficult.However it would be well worth it to see the recipients reaction to opening a pressurised can of pig slurry labelled 'Finest Beluga Caviar'!

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:55:53 pm
content: I'm now leaning towards, the con merchant side of things, overall, (but don't want to rule out him being genuine, yet).The following website, has a 1.5 minute video (which annoys me, and gives the impression it may well be a con), with the guy explaining about his wonderconcure machine thingie. It has lots of other details about the device as well.The technical details, sound like nonsense to me.http://wds-bio-resonance.com/default.aspxThere is even a wikipedia page about the device:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-LybraWhich mentions that it has been detected (or thought to be) as a FAKE/FALSE/FRAUDULENT medical device by Quackwatch.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuackwatchAs others have said, using 8,000 volts at very high frequencies, may actually be harmful or worse. In a sense it would be a kind of "open"/portable/unprotected microwave oven wand, although it would be 40 to 60 MHz, an unknown to us at the moment output power level, and potentially applied to various body parts.tl;drIt could be really dangerous, as (I don't have huge medical knowledge) I have been led to believe that internally heating/overheating/burning the internal organs is VERY bad. I read about it (if I remember correctly) as regards Electric shocks, which can do the same/similar thing (cause internal burn damage).I'm not sure (offhand), if it would cause internal heating or not, in humans. I'm not hugely into RF stuff.Quack "Electrodiagnostic" Deviceshttp://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/electro.htmlQuote

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:09:04 pm
content: Google: Diathermy. It will cause deep tissue heating and significant cranial exposure is likely to result in brain damage, possibly fatal.The best course of action would be to tell the quack customer to go boil his own head!

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 28, 2016, 07:09:04 pmThanks for the information. From your recommended google search, I found:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiathermyQuoteWhich makes me wonder if the 40.68 MHz in bold above, is why Mike's Email says 40 MHz to 60 MHz. Maybe that is where some of the figures come from.So we have maybe explained the 40 MHz, and what they might be doing with it. Also the two plates are mentioned. Interesting connections...But what about the 8,000 volts.Maybe he found the 8,000 volts spec by looking up electric chairs ?Joke, hopefully ?

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 28, 2016, 06:00:42 pmThe last sentence is inspirationalI watched someone post a baseball bat unwrapped a couple of years ago. The clerk was concerned only that it was longer than 450mm so they couldn't send it 2nd class medium parcels. This annoyed the customer who was waving it around frantically. No one was injured other than his debit card.