An expensive product that's probably just one component in a box......... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 12:31:19 am
content: My first submission is this:Goal Zero YETI 12V CAR CHARGING CABLEhttps://www.goalzero.com/shop/yeti-accessories/yeti-12v-car-charging-cable/The battery chargers want more than 12V input so it's just a boost converter to 15.5V like this guy measured:......So you are paying $40USD for a boost converter in a box.::See Update:: It also appears to detect if the engine is on, and only enables in that case.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 04:08:41 am
content: $40 for a good quality boost converter in a box doesn't sounds all that unreasonable to me, how much current can it deliver? I doubt it's just a single component, it's probably a PCB with a handful of parts on it, and it is presumably designed to tolerate the automotive electrical environment and temperature range. A OEM power brick for a laptop will easily cost you more than that.I was expecting it to be hundreds of dollars from the title of the thread.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 04:30:39 am
content: Some high end Agilent/Keysight scopes use a power cord that has a notch so that regular computer type power cords won't fit. I haven't looked up the cost for a replacement power cord for one of those scopes but I would imagine it's easily more than 10x the cost to make it.A hobbyist who ends up with one of those scopes could probably just cut a notch in a standard cord to make it fit, or cut out the key in the socket so that it will accept regular power cords.

author: octillion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 05:34:02 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 08, 2021, 04:30:39 amI'm not sure why Keysight does this (I don't know that there is a legitimate reason to), but that notch is a standard IEC connector for high temperature use. Power cords that include connectors with this notch are rated for higher temperature, and are readily available outside of Keysight.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 06:19:36 am
content: I suppose "high end" audio gear could easily win this competitionNot entirely one component (there were a few), but a famous example was Grado RA1 headphone amplifier, which was a single opamp chip with associated passives in a wooden case selling for $400 or something like that.Some people were a little upset when it came out

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 09:23:25 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on September 08, 2021, 12:31:19 amEvery Yeti product is ridiculously overpriced. They sell a bullshit "lifestyle," and that's a heckuva gold mine.I only wishIwas selling this crap to people with more money than sense!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 09:28:17 pm
content: It's just the Apple of outdoor gear, it's decent stuff but it's also a status symbol. If you wish you were selling this sort of stuff what's stopping you? Design something "high end" and sell it, there are lots of people out there who have plenty of money and there is certainly less useful stuff to buy than an expensive cooler or whatever. I'd spend whatever it costs on a Yeti cooler a long time before I'd spend $1,000 on a painting or sculpture and there are paintings and sculptures that sell for tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars. For something that has no function at all beyond being a high priced status symbol.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 09:46:35 pm
content: Network Analyser cal-kits are a very expensive way of buying 50R resistors!

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 01:31:46 am
content: The worst one I saw was a serious audiophool exploitation device - a mains lead with a kettle plug on one end a standard mains plug on the other using some rather fancy silver plated cable and some caps/inductors on a boxed PCB in the middle. A steal at a mere $1400.David

author: dcarr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 03:08:00 am
content: Some $1000 art brings me way more joy than a $1000 cooler ever could.Also, Yeti the battery brick company and Yeti the cooler company are not connected (very confusing if you ask me).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 03:28:56 am
content: Well whatever, there is no art in the world that brings me $1,000 worth of joy. There are plenty of nice looking paintings and such that are virtually worthless, I'd take a $30 thrift store artwork and virtually anything remotely useful that the other $970 could buy. To each their own but I will never understand why anyone would pay thousands of dollars for a painting. I can't tell the difference between one that's worth thousands and one that's worth next to nothing.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 03:37:07 am
content: Quote from: perdrix on September 09, 2021, 01:31:46 amand the stands to lift them off the floor to eliminate "static".

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2021, 03:27:08 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 08, 2021, 09:28:17 pmExpensive art nearly always appreciates, YETIs don't. I'd buy the art.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2021, 03:42:18 am
content: I recently had a nice gold tooth implant that did come in a very low tech box in its place as part of a plaster cast of the rest of my teeth. By the time it was installed the bill was over $4K. Did I get my money’s worth; probably in the long run.

author: harerod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2021, 12:39:38 pm
content: Quote from: octillion on September 08, 2021, 05:34:02 am

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2021, 06:24:23 pm
content: Quote from: Ground_Loop on September 11, 2021, 03:27:08 amAs a general rule I don't buy stuff that takes up space as an investment, I buy stuff I can use. If there's physical I would buy as an investment it would be a classic or exotic car, at least I can take that out for a drive. Kind of a whole different class of expensive though, these "expensive" consumer items we're talking about are expensive only relative to other similar products, it's not really a huge amount of money in an absolute sense.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2021, 03:05:47 am
content: ::UPDATE::I learned two things today.1) I confirmed with the Goal Zero tech support that while the Yeti 500x is designed to be charged from an external USB-C PD source, that source MUST support higher than 5V for the negotiated voltage (either 15V or 20V). If you have a USB-C PD power source that only supports 5V output, that will NOT charge the Yeti 500x. It just sits there and does nothing after it fails to negotiate. No error message. No indication that it even tried. Just nothing. This is both undocumented and impossible to troubleshoot. Bad job Goal Zero!2) I may have been way too quick to bash their $40 car charger. I think this thing is significantly smarter than I gave it credit for.Since the USBC charger thing didn't work, I ended up buying their 12V car charger adapter anyway (needed something as a plan-c last minute solution). I plugged it into the cigarette lighter port on my car and turned on the car's aux key position so the port would go live but didn't turn the engine on because I didn't want to waste gas. The LED on the charger came on so I know the 12V was live, but it refused to charge the yeti 500x. Again, nothing. No error, no indicator, nothing. I confirmed the AC-DC power brick charged from the wall and was about to take it back as defective, when I had the idea to turn the engine on first.As soon as I turned the engine on, the LED color on the 12V charging cable changed from red to green and it started charging the battery bank! There appears to be at least one additional component in this box that can tell if the engine is running, and only pulls current in that case. This is actually really smart since you don't want to accidently drain someone's car battery just to charge a utility battery. The plastic case has no screws and appears to be glued together really well so no taking it apart without mangling it. Sorry.So there you go. Sorry, Goal Zero. Your $40 boost converter + possible engine detect circuit in a box is probably an acceptable value.

author: Joel_Dunsmore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 05:32:47 pm
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on September 08, 2021, 09:46:35 pmNot so easy to make a 50 ohm resistor, that is still 50 ohms at 50 GHz. Maybe 3 or 4 companies in the world do a good job of it.

author: gcewing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 11:46:47 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on September 22, 2021, 03:05:47 amIt's probably measuring the input voltage. A car's system voltage will usually go up from 12V to about 13 or 14V when the alternator is running.

author: Just_another_Dave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 12:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: Joel_Dunsmore on September 25, 2021, 05:32:47 pmJust to find that someone at your lab has changed it with a normal 100 ohms resistor and all the measurements you have taken need to be retaken

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 02:41:21 pm
content: It is not your grandfa's axial resistor in the 50 Ohm cal standard. Also, try disassembling an industrial cal standard and let us know how easy it was.

author: RiZsho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2021, 11:43:41 am
content: I remember one: Was looking at a faulty manifold pressure sensor in a racing plane and why it failed. Opened it and found that it's basically a through hole part from ST in a milled little box (4-wire - power supply and diff out). The part cost was 10€, but since the sensor was FAA certified, the sensor costs some ~300-400€. Go figure... Maybe I'm in the wrong businessTo be fair, certification is kinda expensive.EDIT: Found the sensor. It seems the price went down a little.https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/jpimanifoldpresssense.php

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2021, 08:59:34 pm
content: Quote from: RiZsho on September 27, 2021, 11:43:41 amGood example, although it looks like two parts in the photo. And one of the parts must have had an aerospace connector on it right?

author: RiZsho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 05:56:38 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 27, 2021, 08:59:34 pmThat's the messed up part: It had 4-pins sticking out so you can connect a 2.54mm header onto them! On a FAA cert part in an acrobatic/racing plane. I thought it was a joke.