Is it worth visiting Microchip in Arizona? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 08:56:44 pm
content: I may be out in the Phoenix area soon. We have been using Microchip for 30 years now and have never bothered to ask if they give tours or there is anything worth a visit to them in the Phoenix area. Does anybody have any thoughts?

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 08:59:33 pm
content: Correction. 28 years. Looked at a PCB of ours and it was designed in 1990. Evidently they started in 89. I gues our design guy back then was into new things!

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 09:02:28 pm
content: Visiting semiconductor companies, specially if they do any fab work in situ, is both very enlightening and awesome.If available, definitely take a tour.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 09:38:21 pm
content: I don't think there are tours for outside people. And otherwise it is just an office building, you won't get past the lobby.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 10:09:00 pm
content: If I were you, I'd ring and ask. Mention you've been using their product almost since their inception and offer to bring along that board you mentioned above. They might find it an intriguing bit of history and/or appreciate the interest from a long term user of their products.Might not get you anywhere - but it can't hurt to ask.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 01:45:53 am
content: I think I will start by finding out if we have a company rep in the area and start there.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:56:29 am
content: Quote from: calexanian on December 30, 2018, 08:56:44 pmIf you can afford it, the best thing to do is to plan to attend Masters (https://secure.microchip.com/usmasters/Home.aspx?redirects=usmasters). Besides the training, and direct interaction with the engineers, they always have tours of their Tempe fab as one of the classes. I went on one the first year, and it was very cool. Unfortunately it isn't the cheapest thing, although one needs to factor in the fact that the registration fee includes airport shuttle, hotel room nights, and decent meals.But I'd agree with others, it doesn't hurt to ask about a tour if you are just in the area.Having been to Masters for the past few years, and arriving a couple days early each time, I've had some time to wander around the Phoenix area and see some sights. If you have more time to spend, a few things I recommend:The musical instrument museum - awesome museum of musical instruments from around the world and of different types.Starfighters Arcade - basically an arcade run by some local arcade game collectors, filled with 80's era machines (and a few newer/older ones). You pay like $11 for an evening/afternoon (Fri, Sat, Sun) and can play anything you want - and they pretty much had anything I remembered from the 80's, and some really vintage, original, games that started the entire arcade. I just discovered they have a youtube channel up athttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Xpy79HnapCyppxky0DBwQIf you can end up with a day in Tuscon (hour or so south), I also recommend the Pima aerospace museum, and a must-see is the Titan Missile Museum. The Titan Missile Museum is worth taking a day just to go to it as it's a real Titan Missile in a real silo, with all the gear still intact.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 01:55:53 pm
content: Some semi-conductor companies do offer Fab tours but very many do not. I've worked for companies that do and others which do not. There is a lot of paranoia about some aspect of their work getting documented and used by a competitor. Conversely there may be paranoia about someone working for a competitor realizing that there is something they have not yet implemented. There are also some hazards and insurance may not provide for civilians in the facility.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 02:01:54 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on December 31, 2018, 01:55:53 pmyeh, making ICs is a finicky process you don't want any unnecessary risks of contamination and many of the chemicals are horrible

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:53:01 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on December 30, 2018, 09:02:28 pmDefinitely. I once visited International Rectifier in GB donkeys years ago doing power MOSFETs.To my surprise not much electronics to be seen. It was mostly about processing chemicals.Left quite an impression.

author: Tedro
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 05:24:36 pm
content: I am down. Can I tag along?

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 08:15:40 pm
content: I've worked in the semiconductor industry since 1982 and there are very few tours offered or given. It does happen periodically, but generally it's for VIP types and not the general public. The value of IP in a modern FAB is so high that no cameras are permitted in most cases, and, by extension, personal visitation is similarly off limits though there are some exceptions.In addition, there is costs associated with permitting people into a FAB as they must all don cleansuits that must be laundered and laundered more expensively than normal clothes. And, since the largest source of contamination by far is people most FAB's try to limit the number of people and its this reason, among others, that you see modern FAB's with very high levels of automation (AMHS).Turns 8-ball over: Signs point to no!Brian

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 08:21:19 pm
content: Yeah, even if there is a tour, it won't be in the bunny suits.Atmel fab in Colorado Springs had organized tours, but it was just walking along the line of doors with windows on them. You could see some stuff, but not a lot.I've got to go on a real tour with a bunny suit and visiting the bottom floor, where all the plumbing is for the machines, and is is much more interesting than what's on the top. But that was because I worked there.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 09:12:24 am
content: Have a real think about what you'd get out of a tour.With a CM you might learn capabilities that you didn't know, or that certain things you're being charged extra for because they're hard.Even with a PCB factory you could learn the limitations (although you'd hope for a good document covering most of them).With a chip fab, if you're not actually getting custom chips, neat as it may be, you're probably not going to learn much.I work at a large tech company, and many folk I work with look forward to the rare tours of our datacenters we do, whereas I've not seen the point, I don't think it would teach me anything much (and unlike most of them, I managed equipment in those facilities).

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 09:16:17 am
content: On that topic, if you have a chance, get a Digi-Key tour. They have organized ones. I've done it a few times and the whole operation is amazing. It is hard to end up in Thief River Falls accidentally though

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 06:02:39 pm
content: Minnesota is a little out of my way.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 11:20:23 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 31, 2018, 08:21:19 pmThe tour that Microchip offers as part of Microchip Masters definitely is in bunny suits, and you end up everywhere in the fab... I know because I've taken the tour...From the class description:QuoteAnd from the prerequisites:QuoteYou also have to remember that Microchip uses a lot of 'last generation' equipment in it's fab - in fact a lot of it is second hand from Intel and others who have obsoleted that equipment. So the process itself isn't all that secretive.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 11:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: forrestc on January 02, 2019, 11:20:23 pmCool, I did not know about that.

author: JoeyG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 01:57:27 am
content: Best to go to Microchip Arizona in August during the Masters!https://secure.microchip.com/usmasters/Home.aspx?redirects=usmasters

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 02:20:12 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 31, 2018, 08:21:19 pmWhile there are older FAB's that are not running leading edge parts and can tolerate the occasional visitor not wearing a bunny-suit that is not the case with any of the more leading edge FAB's. Most of the 30+ FAB's I've worked in only have one exception to the need for bunny-suits and that's EMS/fire personnel. Clearly, if there's a safety issue you can bypass this rule. This also applies to evacuation of the FAB in an emergency or drill -- you can exit right to the street still wearing the suit. Most FAB's do those tests as sparingly as possible do to the very high cost for this -- almost certainly north of $50K not counting any impact to manufacturing which could be 100X that. A modern 300mm FAB costs about $6B USD with individual tools costing more than $80M USD (immersion litho).Actually, there was one exception to the bunny-suit rule not counting emergencies I can remember -- the SUNY Polytechnic Institute opened a new FAB with a mixed 300mm and 450mm tooling and at the dedication Governor Coumo and other VIP's were in the FAB in regular business suits. At the time there was only a handful of process tools and all production was stopped during the tour -- and for some time thereafter.Brian

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 05:08:01 am
content: Curious about the "no make-up, cologne or hair spray" requirement since I thought the whole purpose of a bunny suit is to seal you off entirely from the environment... or perhaps they just don't want you making theinsideof the suits unpleasant for the next person to wear them.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 05:09:40 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 03, 2019, 05:08:01 amBunny suit does not completely seal you. Parts of the face remain exposed.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 12:04:27 am
content: Quote from: JoeyG on January 03, 2019, 01:57:27 amNahhh, you want to visit at the end of June, just before the monsoon blows in. 115ºF in the shade in the Phoenix area, and because they've paved paradise and put up a parking lot, it doesn't cool off until, oh, January.

author: rob.manderson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 04:37:21 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on January 04, 2019, 12:04:27 amThat's the best thing about living here in Phoenix - it gets warm!