PC/MAC on your bench - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Keith
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2011, 01:59:54 pm
content: I have a PC in the corner of the bench. I use it to do quick searches for datasheets, skype, music, EEVblog, etc I'm planning to use it for playing around with PC based logic analyzers. Finally, want to use it for interfacing to a weather station I'm building. I was curious as to how many of you have dedicated a PC/MAC laptop, desktop etc a permanent and dedicated part of your workbench/lab and your primary use(if any)? Do you have any experiments or projects you are planning that interface to a PC/MAC? I know Dave does not currently have one on the bench but perhaps that will change with the opening of his new space. Thanks...

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2011, 02:39:24 pm
content: Two months ago I bought a cheap (around 18$ for a complete working unit and they even threw in a new 4 GB USB stick because I waited over an hour in the shop) used PC from a PC refurbisher shop intended for electronic lab use. What I was looking for is a cheap, small case with serial ports and LPT and I got HP Vectra with P4, 256 MB RAM, AGP video card, built in Ethernet and sound card and some USB ports which I think is perfect for this task.My idea was to make it double as a home server (mostly NAS), so I put Linux there. It runs headless, only connected to the mains and Ethernet port, I use my laptop to SSH into it (no fancy graphical environments). I also removed all the non essential components to reduce power usage (but it refuses to boot with video card removed, what a bummer). Unfortunately VirtualBox doesn't support patching parallel port directly to virtual machines as it does with serials and I wanted to put WinXP VM there for all the Windows only software that uses LPT/Serial programmers etc.But even as a Linux only box I have a bench device with serial and parallel ports for working with microcontrollers and can run my circuits without the fear of burning USB ports on my laptop. Even if I kill it I can easily replace the whole unit. And I'm building a small fan controller circuit to silence it so I can run this 24/7 in silence. I'm working on two slightly different designs, I can post it when thei're finished if you want.

author: benemorius
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 09:23:40 am
content: I'm curious about this as well. I had never even considered that some form of computer might not be a standard asset at every bench until Dave noted that he didn't have one at his. I guess that's a consequence of pretty much growing up with computers around. Sometimes I even forget that I was alive at a time before the internet. Yet even knowing that, it's still hard to imagine anyone voluntarily getting by without one. What do you old timers do for datasheets and googling? Surely you don't accept the inconvenience of having to go inside to look things up? I'd almost rather store my multimeter inside than my computer. It's just too damned convenient to have.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 09:56:42 am
content: Quote from: Keith on November 23, 2011, 01:59:54 pmYeah, most likely.I simply don't have room in the current lab for a laptop or PC. That will of course change shortly, so I can press an old notebook or two into service for various things.I'll also need a new notebook for video edit at the lab (in the office part). Any suggestions on the current best value large screen (17") notebook suitable for video editing appreciated.I can take that to the bench, but will likely have an older notebook on the bench for PC projects, maybe handle a few cameras for live streaming shows, datasheet checking etcI also need another RAID system (Wifi probably) plus other stuff.Almost starting from scratch...Dave.

author: joedevola
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 10:21:51 am
content: Once you go Mac, you'll never go back(having said that, Asus Eeepc at workbench)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 11:13:04 am
content: Quote from: joedevola on November 25, 2011, 10:21:51 amNever go back to thinking for yourself? Creative as in Barista?

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 07:42:31 am
content: Despite constant heckling from my better half and my former colleagues, I went back to PCs, after a middling experience with a Lenovo Thinkpad, bought an ASUS U36SD.Enough grunt to run Altium easily (I got one of the i7 models), but small and light enough to haul about on the bike.Add a decent size monitor, and I think I've got a solid little machine!

author: JonnyBoats
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 07:49:03 am
content: I'm surprised nobody mentioned using a PC to compile C or Assembler programs for micro-controllers.I have a PC on my bench primarily for that purpose. It runs TI's Code Composer Studio (CCS), Microsoft VIsual Studio (for Netduino) and the Arduino environment.The other uses are a web browser and an online lab notebook.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 09:17:37 am
content: Quote from: JonnyBoats on November 26, 2011, 07:49:03 amwhat?! i thought we should not speak about it. i thought it is discussed PC got more SW option. should i mention all the SW that run/installed in my "WinXP" PC? i believe "Win7" can do better.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 10:12:51 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2011, 09:56:42 amDoes it have to be a notebook? If you have the space a 22" monitor is much nicer than a 17" laptop, and it is easier to get lots of memory and fast storage cheap on a desktop.QuoteI don't have any specific recommendations for network storage, but don't make built-in wifi a critical feature. Assuming you will have a wireless router to connect to the internet, you can just plug the wired ethernet port of your NAS into the access point. This also leaves you the option of plugging your laptop into the wired ethernet if you get bored waiting for slow transfers.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 11:47:14 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 26, 2011, 10:12:51 amLaptops are just more versatile, you can take them anywhere, like to the bench for some reason, or interstate/overseas editing videos on-site etc.A 2nd bigger monitor for dual display anyway is a given. I currently run a 15" notebook with a 22" external.Dave.

author: oliver602
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 01:22:35 pm
content: A traditional desktop of comparable specs is cheaper to buy, cheaper to fix(hardware) and cheaper to upgrade over a laptop, and if you got space for the box under your bench, a nice slim keyboard and a monitor take up less desk space than a laptop without external monitor or keyboard. For the same budget you can get more grunt for video editing. If portability is your definition of flexible and you got to take it with you, than of course there is no contest.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 01:31:28 pm
content: comparison of laptop vs bench pc is like comparison between usb scope vs bench scope. pro and con between each two. the tips for good performance dso we usually look at BW, mem depth, GSps and so on... so it will be the same to computer (laptop or bench), start googling for X" monitor laptop, and look for better spec like what processor and GHz speed, how many core, RAM size, GPU/display card performance, HDD size etc. i'm doing video on Intel Quad Core 2.6GHz, 2GB RAM, TeraByte of HDD (internal and external) ATI Radeon HD4650 GPU, pretty old machine by today, but its still doing well for my need (just processing 720x480, not that really fancy), anything greater than that should work better, except... still, i dont think there is 23"built inmonitor option for a laptop out therefor portability, i will look into things similar to IMac (except PC based system, but that will be my own preferences, already used to it and never look back).

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 02:54:22 pm
content: Used to have a full fledged desktop and an 19" crt monitor years ago before lcd monitor become mainstream at the tightly cramped and crowded bench table, and then migrated to net book because of space problem, also I hate the tangled keyboard and mouse's cable with bench top tools, mainly probe cables. And the worst part is those small things like nuts & bolts accidentally fallen into the keypads.Actually while busy with electronic, most of the times were just using the mouse to click & scroll thru documents/pdfs or casual browsing, rarely used the keyboard at all.Now the netbook is with my daughter since I got an used ipad 1, bought from an apple fanatic that was drolling over a new released ipad 2 while ago for less than $100. Now I love the current setup using ipad at the bench, especially my eyes are becoming weaker at the net book's small screen, and its even more difficult to read small text at it. For serious computing, I have a 2 yrs old quad i7 920 desktop with dual monitors , but its placed at different table about few meters away.While at the bench, when a serious computing is needed that doesn't require intense interactive with keyboard & mouse, sometimes I did it remotely using remote desktop vnc from the ipad to the main desktop, and it is very convenient for certain cases, like looking at the simulation results from the ipad or just scrolling circuits/pcb layouts at pc software thats running at the powerful desktop.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 04:00:27 pm
content: my PC desk is opposite my bench and I also have a laptop for if I'm anywhere else but it does not actually fit on my bench.

author: JonnyBoats
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 08:35:00 pm
content: One note on space taken on the bench.While a notebook will generally sit on a bench, a big monitor can be wall mounted just like a big screen TV, thus freeing up bench space.

author: Fir3Chi3f
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 12:56:27 am
content: Dave, I thought you would enjoy something like a toughbook. The older fully-rugged models usually aren't that expensive and they are one of the few portable machines that I've opened and wasn't immediately disgusted by small plastic bits and all around flimsy construction. But having read all that you would need it for, an older toughbook would be a bit underpowered. Perhaps the newer ones would be able to handle the load, but a new toughbook is almost four times what I paid for my car.Anyway, I have a toughbook CF-T8 that lives in my backpack and a built machine for my gaming needs.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 07:14:53 am
content: tough books are for anywhere tough ?

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 04:55:52 pm
content: As much as I love my Mac (I had 5 in the house at one point!), my bench PC is an Asus EEEpc 1008Ha netbook hooked up to an ancient 15" TFT. Most PC bench work requires either XP, Vista or 7 so a Mac is not as useful (despite being easier to administer) and if I blow something, meh. There is always bootcamp, however. I would really like a 21-24" slide-out and flip-down touch screen hidden under a shelf with a swivel mount on top: it would make a very handy screen indeed. Seems my iPad is taking over more and more chores each day. It even has a simple schematic capture and simulator available now.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 08:36:47 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on November 29, 2011, 04:55:52 pmThe schematic capture program is hopeless. I hope the new Eagle XML format becomes a standard among hobbyists so somebody come with an EAGLE-compatible schematic capture program. But nothing beats pencil and paper when it comes to designing something from scratch, unless it is digital, then you change things often.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 09:07:28 pm
content: I would not call it hopeless, more like "early development". Pencil and paper are great but not as easy to share and doesn't offer simulation capabilities. Its certainly not a patch on PC based capture programs but it does let me try out circuits on an airplane!

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 11:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on November 29, 2011, 09:07:28 pmPencil and paper are great for DaveCAD-style schematics; just quick stuff. Great for analyzing circuit building blocks. Maybe I exaggerated a bit, but the apps I tried were unstable or slow, even on a 4th generation iPod Touch.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 12:31:44 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 30, 2011, 12:07:32 amJust don't put them in the same pocket you put your keys on, and don't put them on the pocket that has another little pocket on it with little metal pins to hold the small pocket in place -usually the right pocket. This applies to all gadgets. Look, those little metal pins are the ones that scratch your gadgets:http://jortsrback.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/428983-detail-of-a-front-pocket-in-a-blue-jeans-pants.jpgUse the pocket on the other side.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 02:33:34 am
content: If there is space, I would go with a full desktop (or desk-side server case) any time. I totally appreciate the argument for a laptop, and if I were to have just one machine then it would probably be a laptop but, in a workshop a full-size machine has too many benefits. My workshop machine is an old Compaq Deskpro compact, with "proper" legacy serial and parallel ports. It is fine for burning flash via JTAG etc, PDFs, printing and so on. It is also very very quiet and great for hacking around with hardware. Generalising, it is quieter than many laptops, which tend to have heat problems and so run the fan quite hard.Talking of which, heat is the problem when rending videos on a laptop. You can run a quad core i5 at full speed all day in a desktop, a laptop will (in addition to costing you a lot more) tend to throttle back as the heat soak builds up. They are also much better at running 24/7 if you want to (for example) run a web cam for security, and not being moved around tends to make them more reliable. You know the arguments in favour of maintainability and upgradability with desktop PCs. If need be, it could live in that electrical utilities cupboard, securely out of sight.I guess the limiting factor is broadband speed, but you could remotely edit (and then render and upload) video on your lab PC, from home via remote desktop. I make the dangerous assumption that the lab broadband will have a better connection then at home. Either way, it is still nice to be able to access your lab software remotely.Pencil and paper may not offer mathematical simulation, but they are a heck of a lot better for "rapid prototyping". Ultra high resolution, erasable, no power usage, carbon neutral, and the ultimate intuitive interface!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 10:16:05 am
content: pencil and paper only suitable for "concept" development... once it got into more detailed (before it got more complicated), which usually will come pretty soon, then i'll transfer it quickly to the proper software... 2cnt for me.

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 11:26:14 am
content: Quote from: Zad on November 30, 2011, 02:33:34 amNot really true, pencil cores are made of graphite, that means you emit carbon into environment all the time when you're using it.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 01:01:24 pm
content: Quote from: McMonster on November 30, 2011, 11:26:14 amReminds me of the urban legend(?) which relates to NASA spending M$ to develop a ballpoint pen that works in zero-gravity. The Russians used pencils..Wilko

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 01:05:13 pm
content: Quoteand also not quite true. we need vegetation and meat to power it up

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 01:31:44 pm
content: Quote from: wkb on November 30, 2011, 01:01:24 pmUnfortunately an urban legend-the pens were developed by another company and given to NASA, and as for pencils, bits of conductive graphite floating around is the last thing you want on a spacecraft....

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 01:46:22 pm
content: Ask the Apollo 1 astronauts how safe those pencils were.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 07:09:15 pm
content: Quote from: wkb on November 30, 2011, 01:01:24 pmGo figure

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 07:30:31 pm
content: I used one of these for a while when they were new. They are actually still used by Russian and US space programs, but how they were developed is a myth. They write very well, but its hard to justify a $6 refill. However, today, with less paper usage most writing in my world is increasingly limited to a few notes and mostly my signature, so a refill that can last for years and write steadily is a good idea.Here's the story:http://history.nasa.gov/spacepen.html

author: joedevola
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2011, 10:45:37 pm
content: If just used for looking at data sheets and web browsing, and the occasional electronics app, perhaps one of the cheap android tablets would be a cost effective solution?http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/10-inch-tablet-pc-android/?utm_source=MailingList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=KOGAN+-+20111218+-+Tablet+PCs+-+Newsletter

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2011, 12:22:13 am
content: Quote from: joedevola on December 17, 2011, 10:45:37 pmPossibly, but I prefer the idea of having a Kindle. It's got just what is needed, basically: a PDF reader, a web browser to search for the PDFs and some other stuff and a great display to read the content. For now, most circuit simulators are just experimental. As an analogy, Android and iOS circuit simulators are no match for PC simulators like Proteus or even LTSpice. Similarly a DSO Nano is no match for a 3000 series Agilent or even a Rigol DS1102E. As for electronics calculators, you can get those on your cell phone so you don't have to switch applications or webpages within a single device.