Reasonably priced PCB manufacturers without arbitrary size restrictions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mrnuke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 12:25:30 am
content: I've recently had a frustrating experience with Seeedstudio. I ordered PCBs for a design,which, due to a mistake on my part ended up being 108x58mm, which was over the maximum 100x100mm. Sure enough, seedstudio contacts me about my mistake, and say that I may either resubmit the design to fit in the 100x100 constraint, or pay an additional of four times what I had already paid. I would have understand if they said, hey, we have 100x100 blocks, but your design spans two blocks, so you'll have to pay for an additional block. However, 400% extra for 8% more is extremely frustrating. To be fair, that's how Seeedstudio prices their service. Still frustrating, but I was able to shrink the board and resubmit a design that fits within the limits.The entire experience got me wondering on whether I may be able to find a reasonably-priced manufacturer which doesn't have these seemingly arbitrary size restrictions. Why not 10inx10in, or 16x16cm (10x10 in hexadecimal)? What's so special about 10x10, other than it's a round number in a very specific mathematical base, under a very specific system of units? OSHPARK is far too pricey for a board this size. ITEAD has a similar jump in price to seeed. Maybe I've been spoiled with dirt cheap PCBs for too long and should start pouring more pesos into copper and FR-4. I'd appreciate if anyone knows of manufacturers with better (or saner) pricing.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 12:30:25 am
content: The world is in millimeters, not in inches

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 12:38:31 am
content: Disclosure: I run PCBShopper.Don't worry about what a company's pricing algorithm is. You don't need to care how much they charge to make arbitrarily-sized boards; you only care how much they will charge to makeyourboard.And for that, you can usePCBShopper.comto compare prices from 25 different manufacturers. Some of them use Seeed-like pricing, with size intervals of 50 or 100 mm, while others use continuous functions to calculate prices based on total area. I deliberately try to include manufacturers in PCBShopper's price comparison list with different price structures.- Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 12:57:25 am
content: Quote from: mrnuke on October 31, 2017, 12:25:30 amIf you by this mean <$10 for a batch of boards, there is none. If the pricing does not jump when you go above 10cm, prices were not that cheap to begin with. I don't think they make any profit on these cheap boards. More likely they fill gaps on the panel consisting of larger boards and make this to lure new customers in.QuoteI'd say those prices are insanely cheap. 5+ years ago you could only dream about custom made PCBs being this cheap.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:00:20 am
content: PCBWay and AllPcb. Their prices do go up after a set limit, but not as sharply as that.EDIT: Apparently they do go up that steep even for PCBWay, so nevermind.But, yes, I agree. PCBs are really cheap and accessible nowadays. Just deal with it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:03:28 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 31, 2017, 01:00:20 amI would guess he ordered 5 or 10 pieces for around $5 and it jumped to around $20. 400% jump is only because price was extremely cheap from beginning.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:04:50 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 31, 2017, 01:03:28 amYes, for PCBway exceeding 100mm limit jumps the price 5 times for 10 boards. It all smooths out nicely at 100 boards already.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:07:31 am
content: Quote from: mrnuke on October 31, 2017, 12:25:30 amWe used ITEAD just the once due to the size price jump.We are currently using both PCBWAY & EasyEDA. I believe both are just board shop-fronts - they sub out the designs to others which is why the quality varies a bit. The boards we have been receiving from both are OK. PCBWAY are faster in delivery to Australia (by about 5 days) but the EasyEDA boards are of better quality (so we often just wait out the extra 5 days). PCBWAY add on a Paypal charge whereas EasyEDA do not.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:07:42 am
content: It's incredible, It cheaper to buy in 2 order of same 10 boards, than 1 order of 20 boards

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:11:38 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on October 31, 2017, 01:07:42 amThey don't expect people to bother adding 100 orders of 10 boards. And since they manually check them, they may be against abusing this loophole.That being said, I just bought from eBay 10 lots of 10pcs of connectors priced at $0.99/lot instead of 100pcs of the same connector for $18Sometimes things just don't make sense like this.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:35:08 am
content: I would guess their machines have a maximum panel size for which is convenient to have designs in 100x100 mm , like let's say 650 x 350 ... allowing to fit up to 6x3 = 18 separate designs on a panel with a few mm separation between each one...It would be cheap for them to make multiple panels at same time because they drill holes and vias through multiple panels anyway and that's probably the most expensive part (drill bits wear out and have to be replaced).So going over 100mm would mean either leave the block next to it unused, or spend more time arranging individual designs squeezing them to fit more on the panel. That also takes time and i would guess it costs money, slowing things down.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:37:48 am
content: Quote from: mariush on October 31, 2017, 01:35:08 amThat's obvious, but the question is why it does not cost 2 times more to go over the dimension (wasting most of the second panel). And the real answer is - the fist panel is highly discounted.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:41:42 am
content: Yes, it could be.I would guess if someone has a good experience with one of these companies, he may suck it up and order bigger panels even if it's more expensive on the reasoning "well, i know they got it right the first time" or "they shipped the boards fast the previous time" or other reasons. He/she would be reluctant to order big boards from someone they had no previous interactions with.At the same time, these companies could very well squeeze 100x100 mm squares on the corners of bigger designs reducing waste, so these could very well be almost free for them.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:48:48 am
content: Quote from: mrnuke on October 31, 2017, 12:25:30 amhttp://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbs?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:54:00 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on October 31, 2017, 01:48:48 amAnd price for custom size should be around the same as OP got to start with.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 02:55:54 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on October 31, 2017, 01:07:31 amBoth PCBway and EasyEDA are 'trading names' for their repsective chinese companies. The people who own the PCBWAY engine own their factory which is in Shenzhen.. EasyEDA an english front end for JLCpcb which is part of the SZLCSC Group. ( which is massive ). So while they might look like shop fronts only, they are shop fronts that are in fact owned by the factorys so that english speaking folks can easily access them.

author: mrnuke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 06:30:23 pm
content: Ha! AllPCB, while significantly higher per-board price, is a waaay better deal than Seedstudio, considering the free shipping.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 06:45:19 pm
content: AllPCB looks exactly the same as smart prototyping?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 06:47:46 pm
content: Imperial system is dying whether one likes it or notNow, on a more serious note - when I found myself in similar situation, I've just redesigned ("compacted") the board to fit within 10x10 cm size.Also a piece of advice for future designs - always start with defined board outline (and mounting holes!!). This way you will be sure not to go outside of these bounds, as well as won't end up sticking mounting holes in random places on the board.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 06:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on October 31, 2017, 06:45:19 pmAllpcb is an actual fab (as of may 2017 IIRC). So does PCBWay for that matter. Not sure about the smart prototyping.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 07:23:17 pm
content: If you think their web sites all look very similar, thats becuase they mostly are all using the same software that a smart cookie who used to work for PCBway developed, THink he took all the IP with him when he left, and hes been selling it to other companys!

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 07:24:58 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on October 31, 2017, 06:49:07 pmYes, can confirm that is the actual case. ( have had it verified independty and i am intending to visit their factory soon ). They did get off to an 'interesting' start.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 11:41:46 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on October 31, 2017, 02:55:54 amThanks for the update. I actually got onto EasyEDA as I looked at their pcb design software mentioned in another thread. I don't use their software but ended up ordering boards from them. One of the easiest on-line ordering sites around.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 12:19:25 am
content: I've used Easy-EDA a few times- quick service - 1 week to UK. Their online viewer is pretty good