New PC - what do you think of that config - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 10:58:15 pm
content: So the time has come to buy a new PC. I intended to do that a half a year ago or so, but then totalled my car and had other stuff to spend money on. Anyway, here's what I came up with based on my ~$1k budget:-CPU: Core i5-4570-MOBO: MSI B85-G43-CPU COOLER: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO-RAM: 8GB/1.6GHz CL8 Crucial Ballistix Elite (who comes up with those names anyway....?)-SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB-HDD: WD1003FZEX 1TB, 64MB buffer, 7200rpm, single platter, Black series-GPU: Sapphire 11215-00-20G: R7 250, 1GB GDDR5, VGA/DVI/HDMI-PSU: Seasonic M12II-750 Evo-CASE: SilentiumPC Brutus M23 Pure Black (again... the names...)Use: Altium, various 3d CADs (mainly Solidworks and Inventor), SPICE, sometimes video editing. Minor gaming from time to time but nothing more demanding than League of Legends. Displays will be reused: 2x Acer X193HQJustifications:CPU is this, because it fits the budget, I do not intend to overclock and do not intend to spend 30€ more on extra 200MHz.MOBO is again - because I do not intend to overclock and it seems to be gathering positive reviews over the net.RAM is 2x4GB so that I can dual channel it in ganged mode and I can add 8GB more if i need to. I also picked CL8 because it was only like 7€ more expensive than CL9. 1600MHz is because 4570 officially doesn't support higher frequencies AFAIK.Cooler is kind of a twist, because I read that the OEM supplier cooler is completly fine, but heatsink is small and fans kicks in to high speed quite often. I'd like to keep things quiet if i can, and this cooler seems to be gathering positive reviews.SSD is because it gathers good reviews, and I believe that you can expect best performance from a company, who makes their own controllers and nand chips. 840 series in general has been regarded as good one, so I believe this this drive will also be goodHDD is because i want a reliable storage medium, and as far as my budget goes - WD Black drive is as good as it will get.GPU is because it's relatively cheap (around 70€) and it's based on a ralatively new chip, so less chance of a driver fuckup in the future (like my current Radeon X1600 Pro - no official support under Win 7). I don't play new games, and even if i did - I do not pay much attention to being able to set everything to 'uber high'.PSU is because hardware reviewers seem to agree that Seasonic is one of the best companies out there. This is also the cheapest model they have available in the shop where I will order the PC. 750W should be plenty for this setup, and I will feel comfortable that I'm not running the PSU at it's max (although it's been proven that Seasonics products always retain their parameters over the entire power draw scale)CASE: because it's cheap and i like the design. It's also quite convenient to have power switch and USB ports on the top of the case, because my PC sits on the floor by the desk.Do you see any obvious flaws or bad components in this setup? Did I severely overspec anything (aside from the PSU)? Any bad experience with components listed above? Any input will be appreciated, as I don't really have anyone to ask and this is serious amount of money I'm putting on the counter here.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:11:11 pm
content: at full load, you're closer to 200-245ish at full load. A 500Wish Seasonic would probably be ideal, and put you at a 10%-50% idle-load curve.I'd strongly recommend doing 2*8GB sticks if you intend to keep the machine a while.I actually have one of those coolers in my NAS. It works amazingly well for the cost, I don't believe there's a better bang for the buck (25$ CAD for me) can't actually hear it, ever since everything else I have drowns it out.For your storage drive, I'd go with a Toshiba/Hitachi 2TB over the black, personally. the extra storage space would be quite useful for such a storage limited setup. (I do have a 1TB WD Black though, first drive I got for my rig before I swapped primary to an 80GB X-25M G2 SSD and added 1*2TB, 2*4TB, and a 240GB SSD)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:21:15 pm
content: I agree the power supply is overkill the M12 II 620 would even be excessive. Just buy the Intel factory boxed processor, it comes with a nice warranty and the stock heatsink is plenty adequate and very quiet.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:54:08 pm
content: People already told you about power supply being overkill. A 520-620w psu will be enough. Seasonic is very good.The motherboard has both DVI and VGA and the latest Intel processors have quite good graphic cards. If you're just using it for 2d, you may even be able to use it for Windows, movies and some older games with no problems at all.The R7 250 is slightly weaker than a Radeon 7750 video card ... the prices are also the same. I wouldn't buy it. Too close to the integrated video card performance wise, too pricey.There's a big jump in price if you go to R9 270 (almost 2.5x the price here) but the best performance for the money is somewhere in between with a HD 7770 Ghz edition or even a HD7790.You don't really need such a cpu cooler - you should be able to find something 20-40% cheaper and still silent.. thinking of something likeZalman CNPS10X OptimaorZEROtherm Nirvana NV120

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:00:05 am
content: Looks like a pretty good build. You'll probably want a variable speed Delta fan on the side of the case if you're going to run high load for extended times.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:14:42 am
content: I have a i5-3570 running the Intel cooler you get in the retail box, and the SeaSonic M12-II 620 watt. Even when playing games (Deus-EX HR, Dishonored, Metro 2033, that sort) the fans hardly speed up at all. The exhaust air is barely warm. There is only one other fan, a slow, quiet 120mm in the front of the case. No need for any aftermarket cooling. Retail processor comes with 3 year warranty.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:19:53 am
content: MSI motherboards have some reliability issues, but if you aren't overclocking it shouldn't be a critical problem.That case is cheap nasty.Otherwise no complaints.- PC industry guy (EVGA and CoolerMaster)

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:41:31 am
content: As for the system RAM I'm getting 2x4GB now, with an intent to get another 2x4GB it this proves not to be enough.Other options for PSU I found a that shop:Corsair RM650 or RM550BeQuiet StaightPower E9-580WFractal Design Tesla R2 500Wthere is also a good selection of other BeQuiet supplies: DarkPower, PurePower, SystemPower and PowerZone series. Any recommendations? There's also a Seasonic X+650, but it's more expensive than the M12II+750W.For graphics card I can see:Sapphire HD7750 2GB GDDR3Gigabyte GeForce 550Ti 1GB GDDR5In my price range there are mainly GF GT 630's and 640's, some HD7750's and that's pretty much it. What I want from the card is for it to have physical VGA and DVI connectors, not some DVI-to-WTF-converter arrangement.I'm also not sure about the memory on the card. It seems that i'm limited to either 1GB DDR5 or 2GB DDR3.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:48:19 am
content: if those are the only choices, I'd take the M12II even though it'd probably cost you a little in effective efficiency since your load is so low.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 01:02:17 am
content: Quote from: rdl on February 05, 2014, 12:14:42 amGaming isn't that much of a load on the CPU (some don't even effectively use more than one core) and certainly not a sustained load. It's almost always the GPU that's the bottleneck. Try something like Folding@Home for a sustained max load on the CPU.A good cost saver is to find a used 4U or larger rack server for cheap or free. It will have a great case, thermal solution, and PSU inside. Just swap out the other parts and you'll have a very solid machine.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:12:47 am
content: I have GeForce GTX 550 Ti, cost less than $200 US and it doesn't even break a sweat most of the time. Most games these days are ported from the consoles, they're just not that demanding. That may change in the future now that the Xbox One and PS4 are available, but for now it's pointless to waste money on expensive video cards or unnecessary cooling systems.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:21:29 am
content: You should introduce your GeForce GTX 550 Ti to Crysis at full detail 1920x1200 and watch it have a heart attack

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:35:24 am
content: I'm guessing you mean Crysis 3 and not that old game from 2007? Not a problem, I'm not real fond of EA games, but yeah, it would need something like a 680 or so I guess.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:48:18 am
content: Quote from: rdl on February 05, 2014, 03:12:47 amMy 560 Ti 2GB was just under $200 (after a $20 or so rebate) in early 2012. I remember that the 550 Ti was around the $100 mark.Where the high end GPUs are really needed are on 4K displays at 240Hz. SLI is probably the only way to get there for now. (You can probably easily afford that if you can afford a high end 4K display in the first place...) More reasonable are the common 1080p and 1440p displays at 120Hz and 240Hz. You'll still need a very good GPU to run those but nowhere near what a 4K would need.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:57:12 am
content: or, someone like me running 2x 19*12 and 1x 16*10 screens with different programs on each screen, 1 or 2 of which require heavy GPU computations.maybe you want to run simulations on one screen, signal processing on another and play civ5 on the third screen while you're waiting on 1 and 2.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 04:27:47 am
content: QuoteYeah, you're right. I was way off. I just looked it up. I'm surprised how long ago it was, order was placed 10/25/2012EVGA 01G-P3-1556-KR GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) FPB 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video CardItem #: N82E16814130625VGA Standard Return PolicyFor Tech Support 888/881-EVGA (3842)$114.99

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 10:28:44 am
content: Ok. I do not intend to hook up 3 4K displays, nor do i intend to play new games at ultra res (i think 99% of them are total shit aside from pretty graphics). And I do not have time for gaming, 30min-1hr LoL session every other day is as good as it gets.This machine is supposed to be a reliable workhorse. Other downside is that most or higher end cards do not have VGA connectors, only a DVI-VGA adapter, which means I have to pay for another one to convert HDMI or DPORT to VGA (they are not exactly cheap).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:06:01 pm
content: I'd ditch the MSI motherboard and get an Asus. I've seen plenty of problems with cheap motherboards. The PCB design of a motherboard is extremely critical. I would also use the cooler which comes with the CPU. The aftermarket cooler will probably perform worse being cheap shit sold as gold.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:29:42 pm
content: I wrote not so long ago about PCs and Altium. This is preatty much what you need. The only thing to consider is to have two SSDs instead of one and make a RAID for speed. It doesnt cost much more.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 01:20:45 pm
content: Other options for MOBO then:Gigabyte GA-B85-HD3Asus B85-PLUSASROCK Fatal1ty B85 Killer (lol @ the name.... again)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 01:32:00 pm
content: QuoteDVI carries the normal VGA signals also. An adapter is just a wiring changer and most add on cards will include one. They sell separately for under $5 or you can get a cable with VGA on one end and DVI on the other for a buck or two more. Also, any mother board that supports the Intel processors with on board graphics will usually have an available VGA port.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 01:54:52 pm
content: Other motherboard choice: Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 02:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 05, 2014, 12:06:01 pmThe Cooler Master 212 Evo is actually one of the best "budget" heatsinks out there, even handling a 6 core with ease. (Granted, you'll want to upgrade the fan for a 6 core, but a quad core should be fine with the fan supplied with the heatsink.)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 02:44:01 pm
content: The retail box versions of the Intel processors come with a heatsink/fan that works perfect. The OEM processors are a little cheaper, but not enough to offset the cost of having to buy a decent separate cooling device. The Intel warranty is 3 years on the retail box processor, you typically get only one year on the OEM version. It's possible the reseller may bump it up, but good luck with that. I haven't bought an aftermarket heatsink since the 90s.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on February 05, 2014, 02:44:01 pmThere were complaints that the ones included with Ivy Bridge were horrible, but the newer ones might have resolved it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 06:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on February 05, 2014, 01:54:52 pmNo, ASUS. Just listen for once

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 11:02:24 pm
content: So I ordered the PC. Final setup changed a bit thoughMOBO is now Asrock Fatal1ty H87 Performance, because I wanted the SSD caching which B85 does not have.CPU Cooler was changed to SilentiumPC Fera 2 HE1124, because it's cheaper and a bit slimmer, which means it will not block RAM slots, as it would be the case with CoolerMaster.PSU was changed to bequiet! PurePower L8 530W, because it was cheaper (about 75€ compared to 100€ for that 750W seasonic)GPU stayed at R7 250 1GB DDR by Sapphire, because the choice for 7750's was limited and 7770's were over the budget (plus i don't care that much about graphics performance).I also needed to order a HDMI->VGA converter for 20€ because no damn card under 200€ has 2 analog outputs. All those that were in my range had one analog (either through DVI_I or normal D-SUB) and other outputs were HDMI or DisplayPort.All in all the PC summed up at 3100PLN which is almost exactly $1k or 740€.Picking it up on friday and we'll see

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 04:01:35 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on February 05, 2014, 12:51:35 amMSI's VRMs (the multi-phase buck regulator feeding the CPU) are generally sub-par. While their competitors move toward DrMOS solutions, MSI keeps using discrete MOSFETs with analog control. Considering the harsh requirements on a VRM (output voltage around 1-2V, over 100A of current), they see higher failure rates than their competitors, the failure rate going up in a shallow exponential curve as the power requirement of your CPU increases.

author: leppie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 04:45:18 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on February 04, 2014, 10:58:15 pmI got a Seasonic X Series 750W. Very nice PSU. Definitely a good upgrade from a silly CoolerMaster 550W. Running a 3770K at 4.5 with no issues. Even my GPU issues went away (it used to just freeze up during power saving phase changes).For OC'ing, you really want a decent PSU.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 11:21:52 pm
content: So the PC's at home, installing all the software right now. First impression: SSD is the shit! Boot time from button push to ready is under 15s, more like 10s. I love that.The difference between that setup and my old E6400 Core2Duo is like night and day. The PC is totally silent, every fan is temperature controlled, and neither CPU nor the GPU exceed 50*C or so at significant load, so fans run at low speeds all the time.This may be because I had the enclosure changed to CoolerMaster Force500 because the one I ordered turned out to be damaged in transport and I didn't want to wait.as a side note: for the world to be even and all that shit I got a ticket for driving through a no-traffic street while I was going to pick up the PC from the shop