Tesla Cybertruck  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 05:09:16 pm
content: A little bit long video but worthwhile to watch it complete.I never knew before how revolutionary the Cybertruck’s engineering was. A true game changer.And I believe that it illustrates how come the stumbling attempts at electrification from the established automakers have not been successful.https://youtu.be/L6WDq0V5oBg?si=mNWUvEV9UpD0pKS-

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 05:24:14 pm
content: It also has revolutionary results when hitting pedestrians or other vehicles, those sharp stainless steel edges will do marvels.Can't even figure out how they got it approved.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 05:25:18 pm
content: Gamechanging what aspects exactly?

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 05:30:36 pm
content: What is so special about it? Not got enough signal to watch a YT vid where I am at the moment.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 06:59:52 pm
content: I'm most surprised they got permission to do stear by wire, so there is no reason it couldn't be made RHD with only a little effort

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 09:44:39 pm
content: The driver can't see where the car ends in front, and does not have a rear window as soon as he closes the tonneau cover over the entire back. Oh, and he can't see through the upper right quadrant of the windshield when it rains, because the wiper doesn't go there. Revolutionary...And because it is not enough to have to rely on front and rear cameras for visibility, you can remove the side mirrors too for coolness. And to make really sure it looks smart, the car does not have door handles either. Good luck to the firefighters who want to force the doors open and pull you out after a crash!The whole design seems as impractical as it did at first glance. Drawn by an 8-year old or by a comic book writer -- or maybe by Elon himself, who seems a good fit for both roles.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 10:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 02, 2023, 09:44:39 pm

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 10:23:55 pm
content: Did Elon ever heard of crumble zone? (Or whatever it's called)Modern cars intentionally crush badly to reduce the G forces... But look how harsh a crash is!It starts crushing nicely... but then hits the rock-hard, rigid chasis and the occupants go ballistic, the vehicle even bounces back and hits them harder.Sharp corners, strong chassis... Else from electronics, this car technology is like 1970!Also, I suspect all those test where made without the full weight of the batteries? Go figure!You'll come out as tomato sauce!

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 10:39:06 pm
content: It's just an extension of Musk's personality. Smash everyone else out of the way using armour, sharp edges and no consideration for others.Very fitting..

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 10:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 02, 2023, 09:44:39 pmWelcome to the world of oversized pickup trucks and SUV where driver cannot see shit right in front of them.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/americas-cars-trucks-are-getting-bigger-are-front-blind-zones-children-rcna52109Cybertruck actually is not that bad in this regard and also has a rear and front cameras. EDIT: misunderstood what you mean, yes you cannot see where its front ends but it also reduces blind zone on the front.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:04:47 pm
content: Hey, looks like tesla can build cars without panel gaps! All it takes for it to be the prototype car that journalists are reviewing.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:07:29 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 10:23:55 pmCabin must keep its shape.QuoteIt's like nothing else in body construction and mechanical part of things. Utterly nonsensical argument.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:13:06 pm
content: Elon bad. Did I sum it up correctly?

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:15:33 pm
content: You're both real boring, sometimes I wonder if you're trolls.Cabin blah blah blah... *Car must be safe!!*. Compared to other cars, you won't survive a crash in that.There's almost no crushing zone, you get a real hard stop, really fast.You've been served facts, you answer like woketards. Ohh Elon bad?We'll I don't know him personally, but that truck looks like a really expensive coffin and a meat grinder for anyone getting too close.So this product he made is BAD.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:21:37 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 05:24:14 pmThere's a reason it ain't being released in Europe.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:22:53 pm
content: Yeah that's due stainless steel springiness, makes it complicated to get pressed into the desired shape, it always bounces back a little bit.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:24:59 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 10:23:55 pmYou mean like this?The Cybertruck looks more like this result (FF to 0:46)

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:27:38 pm
content: That comparation makes no sense.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:36:17 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 11:27:38 pmNo? The first shows a vehicle doing a lot of crumpling and absorbing a lot of energy so that there is almost no rebound. The second one of the XC90 shows a lot less crumpling and a lot of rebound, just like the Cybertruck. One of the two vehicles has an exemplary safety record and excellent crash test ratings--guess which one? If you think the Ford comparison is unfair or irrelevant, just ignore it--I know it's a different test, I was just looking for an example of too much crumpling being obviously counterproductive. Tell me what differences you see between the general crash appearance of the Tesla and the Volvo.Here's a video of a full-frontal crash demonstrating 'too much' crumple zone.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 02, 2023, 11:32:24 pmIt's matter of fact that 2000s cars performed awfully.Also, full frontal crash is the least of the problems, it's the partial collision what makes things really messy (Usual deadly crash when you step into the opposite lane), concentrating all the force in a small area.(Which is happening to that 2001 truck, not in the Volvo, so not a fair comparison).European test does exactly that:

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:47:36 pm
content: The problem is that you can not say anything sensible based on the video footage. You need to have the data for the impact on the crash-test dummies.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 02, 2023, 11:41:43 pmFirst, I'm just not seeing that. Second, with modern restraint and airbag technology, making the cabin stronger and preventing intrusion is more important then crumpling. I don't see a clear problem with how the Tesla is performing in the video and I was pointing out that it is reasonably similar to the Volvo. We also don't know the speed and exact barrier type, it's just a video. Perhaps it will crumple more at higher speeds, just like the Volvo will. I've seen them virtually crushed back to the firewall without bending up the passenger compartment much.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:00:49 am
content: Also so much tech... and no curtain airbags whatsoever?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:07:05 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 03, 2023, 12:00:49 amFFS, haven't you heard about airbags deploying as needed? Also pause the very same video you posted at 0:12-0:18.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:12:36 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 02, 2023, 11:47:36 pmThat sounds reasonable, everyone likes data, right? But lack of cabin deformation and intrusion is the real key (as proven in real life) and you can see that on a video pretty clearly. Not all crashes will be the same and the dummy might be lucky or unlucky in a particular test, just like sometimes you see someone emerging unscathed from a crash where the car is ripped to pieces. But statistically, you don't want cars that look like this in crashes:https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g35863519/watch-these-12-vehicles-score-poor-ratings-during-iihs-crash-testing/I'm not a fan of Elon, Tesla or the Cybertruck but I wouldn't say that it is likely to be unsafe (in a crash, we'll see about that 4-wheel steer-by-wire system) or that it isn't an impressive design.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:27:48 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 10:23:55 pmThat is all OK, because the batteries will then catch fire cooking the occupants who can not escape anyway.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:32:45 am
content: True, better to die quickly!Old car engineers thought exactly this. "Poor guy, with wife, kids, awful job, let's give him a quick escape!"

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:38:26 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on December 03, 2023, 12:27:48 amExcept EV catch fire way slower so chances of escaping are higher and it happens 10+ times rarer (per same number of units) than with ICE vehicles. You don't see ICE vehicles on fire in the news because it happens so often that it's too mundane. Also Cybertruck has manual door release, the same as other Tesla cars.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:41:55 am
content: Door handles? Where? Only inside?How do firefighters open it if you're injured or unconscious?What I can't understand is Elon fanboys. Supporting him no matter what. You have to keep a neutral thinking.So anyone saying anything bad about Elon? Here it comes, the Elon fanboys horde!I liked Elon ideas when coming to the Tesla, home energy storage, Paypal... But Mars, Las Vegas's tunnels, Cybertruck, looks like he's losing it, he's just obsessed.Imagine a beloved one getting hit at 10mph with a normal car full of plastic, hopefully some broken ribs but not live-changing injuries.Now repeat with those cutting-sharp edges. Easily, 500% more chances of dying.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:10:58 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 03, 2023, 12:41:55 amBreak the window.It may be a surprise for you but in modern cars doors get automatically locked when driving. So outer handle is absolutely useless unless it gets automatically unlocked after the accident, and it likely won't if crash was serious or car does not have post accident unlocking feature.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:20:12 am
content: Are you refering to the - supposedly - bulletproof window?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:24:36 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 03, 2023, 01:20:12 amWindows are high strength but not bulletproof. You can certainly break them with right tools (some sharp pointy thing made of very hard material).

author: Dan123456
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:50:31 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on December 02, 2023, 11:04:47 pmNope! They can’t even do that!I was watching this yesterday and at 7:30 he talks about the panel gaps all being different

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:55:22 am
content: Quote from: Dan123456 on December 03, 2023, 01:50:31 amOn different prototypes though. Those that were given for rides were fine. As of how it will be on actual production cars is yet to be seen.

author: Dan123456
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:58:31 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 03, 2023, 01:20:12 amErrr… don’t you mean “thermonuclear bomb proof” according to muskIn reality, I’ve thrown things at normal car windows harder than they through that baseball in their demo so am pretty sure it is just laminated glassWow! The genus has reinvented laminated glass! Hmmmm I wonder if any of his other genius ideas are just existing works that have been stolen and relabelled?

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 02:38:54 am
content: This explains everything. He made the definitive people-shocking machine!

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 04:26:10 am
content: Not a fan of Musk but he certainly has good engineers at tesla. The most amazing thing isthe "blow it up and go" attitude. Outside of tesla is another story.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 04:41:47 am
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 02, 2023, 05:30:36 pmI am no Elon Musk fanboy. But I do recognize that he can think outside the box, and risk failure.Drive by wire, for instance, allowing to tailor the steering ratio depending to speed.48 volt electrical systems is another. Over 20 years ago the limitations of 12 volts with ever increasing loads was recognized. Mainstream auto makers didn’t want to commit to the change. Elon decided to implement it.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 04:45:19 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on December 03, 2023, 04:41:47 amWhich is interesting because 24/28V systems have been around forever on commercial vehicles.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 08:39:38 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on December 03, 2023, 04:41:47 amSame.Thinking outside the box, fail fast mentality, and actually getting stuff done are his strengths.Getting engineers to solve problems instead of getting managers to use engineers to solve problems.Giving engineers a working environment to do things the right way, and to spend their time on things that actually matter, rather than things that look good on a managers quarterly report.Sure, it will be overhyped and maybe it will take 3x longer than expected but that's normal when breaking new ground.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 12:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: Dan123456 on December 03, 2023, 01:50:31 amOk I stand corrected. Tesla cannot build a car with good panel gaps.Something others figured out in the 60s.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:18:14 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on December 03, 2023, 12:57:19 pmThey can in China. The worst are from Freemont, California (what a surprise).

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:38:46 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on December 03, 2023, 12:57:19 pmhttps://youtu.be/mIAYxWCXF8A?si=hIiCcfKGgaehH-Ge

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 01:41:37 pm
content: And that was the old British car fame. Cars that could be bent by hand!

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 04:24:37 pm
content: The more things change... (opens at 28:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3FUH9fVC_M?t=1696Edit: I give up, no idea how you guys are getting the embeddingorthe timestamps to actually work properly.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 05:35:20 pm
content: Isn't it just right click on the video and select "copy video URL at current time"?https://youtu.be/F3FUH9fVC_M?t=1687note the youtu.be not youtube

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 05:41:45 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on December 03, 2023, 04:41:47 amThis has been tried before, and does not work. The reason should be obvious to anyone that's ever driven a vehicle. The closest to variable steering that actually works is the various 4WS systems the Japanese manufacturers used in the 1980s-1990s. Curiously they don't bother any more.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 05:41:59 pm
content: Vehicle Safety tests are a little bit of an odd thing. They have changed many times over the years as better research comes out about accidents. Some manufacturers are very good at building to the required test, but how realistic that testing is makes me wonder. Motorcycle helmet testing and certification are much the same. So I won't diss the Tesla on that basis.Though I am not sure how much the emergency services will like some of the bomb-proof glass etc that was rumoured to be on the vehicle but I am sure solutions will be found soon enough. Much like how criminals will find a way into them.I think the steering by wire is interesting and I suspect part of the reason they are using it is because they have proven it to be safe. I remember issues about cars using electronics for the throttle and the fears that arose from it. So time will tell if its going to be an issue.I will say though, I really think the Tesla is ugly and the kind of thing I drew as a kid using that Triangle thing we all had in stationary kits for school. But I don't have much taste, I drive a Defender 110.Lots of new tech has lots of toys that are prone to failure. Plan obsolescence?

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 07:40:29 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 01:10:58 amMost modern cars will detect when an accident is happening, and while for a human that's an incomprehensible short time, for the electronics, servos, and motors that's an eternity to still do things. Some modern cars will do things like activate the brakes, tilt seats away from the side, tension the seat-belts before there's even an impact, pull away the steering wheel column, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if unlocking the doors and trunk is part of such a system.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 07:54:32 pm
content: I really hope it doesn't come to the UK/EU.We have enough problems with people driving ridiculously oversized vehicles and killing pedestrians and cyclists in avoidable accidents. Not to mention small roads, cramped car parks... seeing someone maneuver this around a normal multistory car park would be a sight.The SUV was a cursed invention, I really wish it had never been a thing. Massive trucks like these as personal vehicles is just taking that to the next, most ridiculous level.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 07:56:37 pm
content: Quote from: HalFET on December 03, 2023, 07:40:29 pmI think it was Jaguar that showed a hood that lifted when it detected a collision, to comply with the pedestrian safety regulations requiring a minimum of 3 inches of space between the hood and hard points like engine and suspensionLocked doors might be a way to make sure the doors don't open during an accident compromising the passenger compartment, if so you wouldn't want them unlocking until after the accident

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 08:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 03, 2023, 07:54:32 pmhasn't "Pedestrian Detection and Collision Mitigation Systems" with automatic braking not become mandatory yet?, I know it's been proposed so it won't be long

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 08:32:25 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on December 03, 2023, 05:41:45 pmStrange statement and wrong.My 2005 BMW 330i (E90) had active steering and it worked perfectly, I enjoyed it. The 5-series had it even earlier. It's a standard option not only offered by BMW (I think, didn't check other brands).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_steering

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 08:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 03, 2023, 07:54:32 pmWell, you Brits brought the SUV over here with the Range Rover, the ultimate accessory for suburban housewives.In the US, the parking slots/lots are big enough.

author: andre_teprom
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:03:39 pm
content: I checked out that video, and you're right, it's pretty mind-blowing how innovative the Cybertruck's engineering is. Tesla definitely shook things up in the automotive world. It's like they rewrote the rules. Traditional automakers do seem to be lagging behind in the EV game.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on December 03, 2023, 05:41:45 pmIt's literally used by Nissan in some of their vehicles. There's a redundant clutch which activates if power is lost or there is a fault with the system providing a mechanical override, but in normal use the steering is entirely electronic. Combined with variable resistance on the wheel you could create quite a realistic feel whilst gaining the benefits of truly adaptive steering. That said, I can't quite get over the idea of having no mechanical linkage, I don't trust the redundant system quite enough. And ordinary electric power steering is perfectly sufficient IMO, I've never thought that this would improve things, just make them more expensive if anything went wrong!Quote from: langwadt on December 03, 2023, 08:00:10 pmYes, these systems exist, I am pretty sure my car has this system:https://youtu.be/watch?v=0P7M8PvG0Pc&t=2m37sHowever such systems are not infallable, they cannot detect all pedestrians, cyclists etc. Adding more mass will always mean any accident that does happen is more severe. The focus should be on reducing vehicle size and weight where possible. Especially on reducing bonnet height, as that strongly defines the severity of an accident: if you hit a pedestrian with a lower-down car like a Golf, they're much more likely to impact their head on the windscreen, which is less likely to be fatal than with an SUV where head impacts tend to be on bodywork.Obviously, some people need larger vehicles, such as those with wheelchairs, elderly/infirm people, and those who use their vehicle as part of their profession. But SUVs (and trucks) are primarily marketed towards people as a vanity purchase*, and the average occupancy of an SUV barely exceeds that of a smaller car. Cybertruck is even worse, though the statistic in the US for pickup trucks is something like only 30% of people use their pickup bed more than once per year, it's crazy.*Like for instance, the ridiculous SUV ads like these:https://youtu.be/watch?v=0ITLWCfxmLc... yeah, the majority of the time, this vehicle is gonna be sitting in traffic, like the rest of us.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:08:48 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 03, 2023, 05:41:59 pmI'm curious to know what sort of redundancy features that has. I presume there's already a lot of redundancy for the self driving feature, so the only real addition would be redundant sensors for the driver input. There's already at least 2 battery systems (3 if the main one is a pair of 400V sections) so that's solved for power redundancy.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on December 03, 2023, 08:32:25 pmSteer by wire is not the same as active steering at all. Also Cybertuck turns both front and rear wheels. Rear wheels actually turn in different direction depending on speed.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:25:15 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 09:21:57 pmHonda Prelude had four wheel steering 35 years ago

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on December 03, 2023, 09:25:15 pmDid it do the same as what I wrote? At low speed Cybertruck rear wheels turn up to 10oin opposite direction from front wheels. At high speed they turn up to 2oin the same direction as front wheels.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:41:33 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 09:21:57 pmI never said it was. Please read what I responded to. Which was:"The closest to variable steering that actually works is the various 4WS systems..." which is nonsense.Drive-by-wire is something else (and something I'd never want, but that's a different subject).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:45:49 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 09:37:24 pmYes, the Prelude 4WS went both ways. It was also completely mechanical and didn't have 10 degrees of authority (I think it was 5 or 6), but yes it shortened the turning radius in parking lots as well as improved lane change maneuvers. My Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 also had 4WS, but it only worked same-direction and at higher speeds.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:53:09 pm
content: I found a video where it does some weird oscillation on rear wheels when changing steering direction.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2023, 09:58:37 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on December 03, 2023, 08:00:10 pmIn most of Europe, yes, I believe that was part of the same package that made a reverse camera mandatory.

author: Dan123456
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2023, 02:19:39 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 09:37:24 pmThe R32 Nissan skyline has rear wheel steering apparently up to 10 degrees. And it was released in 1989.“Nissan were great advocates of four-wheel steering and started with hydraulic HICAS systems which could turn the rear wheels up to 10 degrees in either direction.”https://www.carthrottle.com/news/ins-and-outs-four-wheel-steering

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2023, 10:38:38 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 01:24:36 amsoooo... if a cybertruck is crashed and locked and you need to get someone unconscious out of it, you can hit it with another cybertruck!

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 09:35:07 pm
content: It won't come to the EU (or UK, Switzerland etc.).It's simply too heavy (3.5 tons), which requires that the driver needs a license for driving trucks.When driving a truck, you're not allowed private use or transport of passengers, so your friend or wife needs to be an employee.Also the speed limit for trucks is 80 km/h (50 mph).I can't think of a more unattractive packet for a potential buyer, ignoring the price.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 09:39:20 pm
content: You have never seen a truck in your life, have you?3.5t is the maximum gross weight for normal license.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 09:57:04 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on December 08, 2023, 09:35:07 pmB category drivers license allows maximum authorised mass up to 3.5 metric tons. Cybertruck in Cyberbeast version weights 3.1 ton and regular AWD weights 3 tons. In theory they could pass it as 3.5 ton maximum mass if artificially limit its payload spec. Also EU is in process of bumping the limit to 4250kg for alternatively-fuelled vehicles which would bring it below the limit as is.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 10:51:04 pm
content: Beyond the weight, it's hard to really see a market for this in Europe. Time will tell.But the weight itself raises questions (especially considering that the EU is going to raise the bar, as wraper mentioned) in terms of efficiency.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 11:23:29 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on December 02, 2023, 11:36:17 pmI actually had one of those. If you read the development story on them they were an immensely strong and durable car. Built to tolerate some of the worst Australian outback roads. Some time ago I did a bit of searching regarding that video. That particular car had several hundred kilograms of sandbags in the boot as well as a number of cuts to the bodywork in strategic places to ensure it folded up in a dramatic way, which it did. Rest assured, proper version of that car were nothing like in that video.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 11:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on December 08, 2023, 11:23:29 pmThe only thing I could find is mention of 300kg of sandbags, nothing about altered body whatsoever.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 01:00:07 am
content: Quote from: magic on December 08, 2023, 09:39:20 pmAre you unable to read? Otherwise your comments makes zero sense.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 01:02:53 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 08, 2023, 09:57:04 pmInteresting, I hadn't heard of that one.Can you provide a link?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 01:17:59 am
content: Quote from: Benta on December 09, 2023, 01:02:53 amhttps://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/features/new-regulations-will-allow-drivers-drive-heavier-e-lcvs?a=JMA06&t%5B0%5D=Electrification&t%5B1%5D=LCVs&curl=1Also in UK you can undertake a 5 hour training and drive up to 4250kg BEV or H2alreadyhttps://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/driving-licence-flexibility-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles/changes-to-driving-licence-flexibility-for-alternatively-fuelled-vehicles

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 01:31:04 am
content: Thanks @wraperI'll continue enjoying my '97 MX-5 (950 kg) and '20 ditto (1060 kg). Makes much more sense to me than lugging around 4 ton.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 08:40:01 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on December 08, 2023, 11:23:29 pmThat reminds my when the American safety people went after the Suzuki Jimmy/Samurai they were found to have modified parameters until they got the results they wanted so that the new popular lightweight 4x4 wouldn't remain popular in the US.Yes the uk licence allows for 3.5t vehicles on a normal licence. I am interested to see how this plans out when more load carrying vehicles go EV as carrying capacity is rather important.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 10:42:42 am
content: My comment about the drive-by-wire steering was meant to be specifically about the variable speed part of it. Sorry I wasn't more clear. This isn't a new thing; it's been used by many manufacturers for at least a couple of decades now. I simply remain unconvinced that it's a good thing; I want a predictable response when I turn the wheel, not one that the vehicle chooses based on vehicle speed.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 05:18:17 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on December 09, 2023, 10:42:42 ammaking it a predictable fine response at speed and not having to turn the wheel a million times in the parking lot is the purpose

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 09:39:26 pm
content: Yep. Of course not everyone has the same idea of what predictable is. Which makes sense as we don't all expect the same behavior based on our experience and preferences.So a better word than "predictable" here, for describing a calculator-assisted steering, would be "standardized". IMO.If you're used to a given vehicle, even one without any steering assistance whatsoever, then its behavior will be entirely predictable to you, unless something breaks. So it's more like giving vehicles a more "standard" behavior that's more approachable for most drivers.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 12:26:35 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2023, 12:38:26 amICE cars bursting into flames after accidents was so rare in earlier years that we used to sneer at Hollywood movies showing that happening.Wrecked cars commonly looked like a giant had stepped on them like we might on a tin can, but no sign of fire.These days, it is so common that it is almost routine.It seems nobody has connected the dots!My theory is it is because of the presence of pressurised fuel pipes plus high-capacity fuel pumps.With old cars, an accident usually stopped the fuel pump so the supply of fuel to help start a fire was much reduced.Then there are Jeeps, which don't even need the accident, but go "woompf" just sitting in a driveway.I only ever saw two cars spontaneously "just start to burn" in the old days.One was my old Austin Tasman, & the other was a early 1980s Peugeot.In each case, it was a quite gentle, slow process, with plenty of time to remove yourself & valuables from the vehicle.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 12:36:50 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 03, 2023, 09:05:18 pm4 wheel steering, the authentic ultimate version:https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JXD9c3DZw8o

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 01:33:49 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on December 10, 2023, 12:36:50 amThat's just yet another concept though. You can implement all sorts of weird shit on those because it does not need to actually work IRL or have sensible cost.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 01:38:22 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on December 08, 2023, 11:23:29 pmAnyone of a reasonable age who lives in Australia would have seen many Holden Commodores of that model which had been involved inrealaccidents.In a front-end impact like that, the front crumple zones operated as designed, with the passenger compartment remaining largely intact, obviously depending upon the severity of the accident.Over time, for some inconceivable reason, there was a concerted effort by some to denigrate anything Australian made, but this is the first time I have seen such a blatantly fake video about Commodores.GMH made plenty of stuff ups like any manufacturer, especially after GM in Detroit started reducing the autonomy of its subsidiary companies around the World.That went well, didn't it Vauxhall?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 01:42:14 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on December 10, 2023, 12:26:35 amThey always burned in flames, of course only some percentage of crashes result in fire. They just very rarely explode like in movies. I've seen burning ICE car myself and it didn't even crash, just cough flames under the hood when driving near my home.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 02:23:06 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 10, 2023, 01:42:14 amMy main point was that cars burning up after accidents was rarely seen, whereas it is much more common now.It is very evident when you have been around as long as me.The engine fires I have seen were slow burning, looking much more like an oil fire from leaky rocker cover gaskets.In the case of my Austin, it was literally that, causing the noise deadener on the firewall becoming saturated, plus Leyland Australia choosing to place the exhaust manifold very close to the firewall when they were determining the best way to fit an "East West" 6cyl engine in the space normally occupied by a four.

author: Dan123456
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 02:52:48 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on December 10, 2023, 02:23:06 amI do wonder if this is due to cars having significantly more electrical systems than they used to.The vast majority of fires I have seen are due to electrical faults. Especially when some peanut has decided to wire up their on stereo or light bar etc. incorrectly.Don’t get me wrong, rubber / plastic fuel lines breaking is definitely a thing and oil can catch fire (although usually not easily).I just wonder what proportion of the ICE fires these days actually has nothing to do with the fuel.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 09:12:48 am
content: QuoteSeen is the keyword. These days we have video recording on our phones and the ability to share it with others. This has caused people to think things happen more than they used to. I got off facebook partly as it was feeding into my anxiety, seeing video of stuff being stolen to video from disasters around the world.There is going to be a certain amount of sh*t stirring going on with Tesla as if does have parts of the car industry worried as it's gone from a nothing to somthing very quickly and caught a lot of people out. They changed tactics as electric cars were marketed at eco friendly loons/nerds and Tesla changed that and made it ok to own a car becuase it was fast and innovative. I can't afford to get into it so I am not overly interested but I am still hesitant at times as some people just love to spread the word of the new Steve Jobs without thinking is this actually a good idea for the rest of us.This has been my Sunday morning rambling, I will now go find a cup of Tea and try and do somthing productive. Oooh eBay...

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 09:54:12 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 10, 2023, 01:33:49 amCost and mechanical complexity are probably why we don't really see it much any more. Torque vectoring seems to be the preferred method nowadays, along with boosted power assist at parking speeds.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 10:52:41 am
content: Quote from: HalFET on December 03, 2023, 07:40:29 pmI think Teslas also blow a pyrofuse to isolate the battery pack in an accident

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 12:05:14 pm
content: Quote from: HalFET on December 03, 2023, 07:40:29 pmFrom what I found:QuoteQuote

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 05:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on December 10, 2023, 12:36:50 amNo need to overcomplicate it; just add a fifth wheel to pivot...

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 12:07:52 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 11:22:53 pmhttps://www.justcars.com.au/news-and-reviews/feature-stainless-steel-fords/888032

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 12:14:56 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on December 02, 2023, 11:22:53 pmall steel has some spring back that has to be accounted for when bending and pressing

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 03:12:04 am
content: It's not even usual austenitic sheet stainless steel you'd think, and that wouldn't be bulletproof. It's a cold rolled martensitic high strength stuff.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 06:37:34 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 11, 2023, 03:12:04 amIt's big boy stainless steel.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 03:51:49 pm
content: At about 24 minutes they start showing and discussing how the thing is built. They start showing electronics at 39 minutes. Power electronics at 43:10.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 05:21:43 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on December 03, 2023, 05:41:45 pmAll the reviews I've seen seem to disagree, though seems more of "fine once you get used to it" than "must-have feature"

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 05:23:39 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 11, 2023, 03:51:49 pmThat power converter is impressive - 11kW bidirectional AC charging and 3kW DC/DC conversion on a pretty compact assembly.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 07:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on December 11, 2023, 07:17:05 pmEven if it was only to offend people like you, it's is an excellent reason to do itI'm 99% certain Cybertruck exists for trolling. The whole design looks like it's drawn by a 4-year old, and that's exactly the right thing to do, given the ages where all cars look the same. Besides, the whole safety discussion is irrelevant. They cater for the segment of psychopaths who classically drive vehicles with even worse visibility, significantly so if you look at the comparisons. I am never going to buy it, but I'm totally enjoying the fact it exists and the amount of butt pain it's creating. Plus it's an interesting and useful experiment in engineering which creates many useful results that can be later utilized in cars that make more sense. You don't want to do such experimental stuff in conventional shape, bought by conventional people who expect conventional behavior.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 10:53:56 am
content: You think I'm offended by it? No, I'm merely incredulous thatanyoneother than Musk and his equally deluded fanbois think that it's a good idea. I am metaphorically SMH, but it takes more than the comical antics of a few narcissistic fantasists tooffendme.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 01:03:26 pm
content: Well, if people are interested, buy it, so that it produces at least some revenue, allowing the business to run, then it seems like an excellent idea to me. If it fails to sell in high enough numbers, then it was worth trying. In either case, it clearly is a test subject for stuff like 4-wheel steering, using stainless steel, and probably much much more I don't know about as I haven't looked into it closely. It has been many decades with very little fresh innovation in automotive. I want that to stop that trend and celebrate everyone who has guts to do something unique, even if I don't personally want that thing.Also don't project your own attitudes into others; the fact Elon Musk makes you emotional as some kind of anti-fanboy, doesn't mean that those who disagree with you are Elon Musk fanboys.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:50:30 am
content: https://youtu.be/9ll2_BDZpI4Adding this to add some more to the discussion

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 05:38:09 am
content: Lots of videos that compare a direct hit into a solid wall (the cyber truck) and then videos of other pickups hitting partial structures. If you are going to compare apples to apples please do so, otherwise it's all clickbait.I think the cyber truck is for 'special people', but having a son that works at T and has been involved in a bunch of crash testing (5 star stuff), he has a different knowledge of the tests and what is actually occurring in the tests and the actual crash data, G forces, internal structure etc etc.He finds the armchair stuff quite amusing - the clickbait youtube stuff and a bunch of forum gossip is not engineering. Please do not assume that because Musk has certain personaility 'traits' that there aren't competent engineers that know what they are doing working on the products there.And no, I'm not a fanboy and happily drive my ICE 4wd and will continue to do so.Anyhow, carry on.cheers,george.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:13:45 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on December 12, 2023, 01:03:26 pmYou're reading a little too much into my comments. Not much I can do about that; I'm not about to issue a long list of disclaimers with every post.The main purpose and benefit of the Cybertruck seems to me to be to generate publicity for Musk.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 06:20:55 am
content: Quote from: georges80 on December 13, 2023, 05:38:09 amIn the video I posted further on the timeline they have apples to apples test. Full wall Tesla Cybertruck Vs F150 Lightning. Results are similar. T bone test the Lightning lifts their left side to close 45⁰ while the Tesla stays mostly unmovable.Jump to 1:50.I'm not also a fanboy, I drive what suits my needs, not hype. I just wanted to add something more since I also saw the full frontal tests and a comparison of other trucks doing overlapping frontal test and it was not apple to apple. This one had the first apple to apple test, so I thought it would be relevant for the discussion.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 03:47:59 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 08, 2023, 10:51:04 pmThere is a market alright, pompous woke transgender dentists , nasty stiff upper lip lawyers, dumb azz politicians who want to "politically signal"they are indeed "imaginary" green while driving to airport to take private jet to Cop28 UAE and Davos WEF climatechange meeting etc.There is always a "invented" market for dumb ass products, kitchen ice cream machines, instant bread baking machines from Philips are other famous devices.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 04:46:43 pm
content: At this point Elon is poison for virtue signallers of any sort except trolling nihilists who want to piss off all sides.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 05:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: MT on December 14, 2023, 03:47:59 pmdoesn't all the wokes hate Elon now because he doesn't censor twitter/X how they want?

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:44:13 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on December 12, 2023, 01:03:26 pmCyberTruck has been sold out for many years ahead. According to drive.com.au, it may take four to five years for Tesla to clear its pre-order backlog.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 11:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on December 14, 2023, 05:24:43 pmDon't all the "anti-wokes" love Elon now because he censors twitter/x how they want?They used to hate him!I always thought he was a twat, so I am an "equal opportunity" nasty old man!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 11:23:57 pm
content: Quote from: vad on December 14, 2023, 10:44:13 pmWould be interesting to see the typical "profile" of the buyers, if there is any.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 11:24:17 am
content: I'm really not all that concerned about steer by wire.It's really just a question about how redundantly it was implemented, the concept is fine and already used in so many other industries for things.I've not looked at how its done in Cybertruck but if it has two independent motors, 2 independent steering wheel angle sensors and one system gets power from the 48V battery while the other gets power from an always-on feed from the primary battery. Then that would seem pretty robust to me. I guess the difficulty with only 2 systems is knowing which one is faulty and so which one needs to be disabled to reduce the risk of them both fighting each other.As far as looks go, I think it looks quite cool.But the only way I could ever see myself owning one would be to take on camping trips and only if I had money to burn.It seems pretty impractical and way to big for everything else i might want a vehicle for.Perhaps if Tesla come out with a smaller version of it it might make more sense to have as a utility vehicle in NZ. It's just too big otherwise.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 01:26:11 pm
content: Quote from: vad on December 14, 2023, 10:44:13 pmYes, I wonder how many of the buyers died and will die waiting for delivery.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 07:53:40 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on December 15, 2023, 01:26:11 pmLet's do a ballpark estimation…With over 2 million pre-orders, mostly in the USA, and the death rate in the 25-64 age group at 529 deaths per year per 100,000 population in the US, assuming an average waiting time of 4 years, and assuming the majority of buyers are in the age 25-64 group and evenly distributed by age, the number of people who paid a $250 refundable deposit but would die waiting for the delivery is on the order of magnitude of 42,000.

author: lezginka_kabardinka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 02:11:27 am
content: 2 million Tesla vehicles have been RECALLED. Google it.EVs are just a pipe dream.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 02:24:13 am
content: Quote from: lezginka_kabardinka on December 16, 2023, 02:11:27 am"Recall" = OTA firmware update to monitor drivers more strictly to prevent an abuse of autopilot. Also it has nothing to do with EV as such.. BTW how many ICE cars were recalled due to potential airbag explosion? Last number I've seen was 67 million. But I doubt manufacturers/dealerships and vehicle owners in Russia really bothered to replace them. But I would not call ICE to be a dead due to that, especially because it actually has nothing to do with ICE.EDIT: just googled that Russian АвтоВАЗ and УАЗ didn't even announce a recall despite using them too.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 12:21:32 pm
content: Hm.. A "recall" that's just an OTA update to add extra annoyances to the cars interface just to account for a small percentage of the population that's too stupid to use autopilot correctly without it.Can't say I agree with this nanny state BS.If a person cannot understand the simple concept that they are fully responsible for everything the car does while on autopilot then they probably shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 12:45:08 pm
content: Oh good, an oversized guillotine on wheels. Just what I always wanted.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 04:19:33 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 17, 2023, 12:21:32 pmToo human, Tesla got off light for now. This might just save them from themselves. As I've said before, Tesla is just one dead policeman or emergency service worker away from total disaster. They are lucky it has been mostly occupants and poor people the media wasn't interested in which were killed up till now.You can bring up statistics all you want, but if the pre-existing autopilot killed some EMT doing a rescue on the highway you wouldn't want to own Tesla stock. Suddenly most people would start agreeing with me that it is just too incompatible with human nature.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 04:46:55 pm
content: One thing is certain about Tesla in general and Elon in particular: it elicits heated discussion and wide controversy. It is not a ho-hum automotive company like Fiat, General Motors or Nissan. Well other than that Goshn scandal.This happens when you are a disruptive company. Have to give them credit at least for that much.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 05:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: lezginka_kabardinka on December 16, 2023, 02:11:27 amDon't worry. For every hydrocarbon molecule the West doesn't buy from you, China and India will buy a dozen.You might not like the price, though.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 11:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 17, 2023, 12:21:32 pmA great step forward would be not to call it "autopilot"!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 11:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on December 12, 2023, 01:03:26 pmTrue, but then again: what can you actually innovate where it comes to cars? Aerodynamics & safety have a single optimum shape so all cars look alike nowadays. On top of that, people gotten afraid of colors so all cars are black, grey or white. Sure, new things like touchscreens have been tried but failed. Radios got rotating knobs for the volume control back after up/down buttons where the 'hype du jour' for a few years in the early 2000s. At some point a product is as good as it gets. After all, what can you improve on a hammer?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 12:10:05 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on December 17, 2023, 11:40:31 pmWell, "autopilot" may sound like it means "autonomous" for typical car drivers, but the word has been used in the transportation industry in other types of vehicles for a long time with not much ambiguity. It never meant that the pilot was not responsible and that the autopilot could be left on unattended. So the same should be for cars. But of course, marketing doesn't like that.It should just be an extension of what's been around for several decades already, like speed regulators/"cruise control". Problem being that the more is automated, and the less the driver will be sollicited, so the less they'll be alert. The reason it works in professional transportation is that pilots are doing their job, they are not just "consumers" of a vehicle. Also, the fact they are rarely alone helps - there are always colleagues around if one person fails.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 05:24:07 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on December 17, 2023, 11:40:31 pmI think the term is fine. Tesla's system is already more capable, relatively speaking, than what is classically meant by an "autopilot". (Seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilotif unfamiliar with the term.) However, Tesla has clearly failed to communicate (quite obviously on purpose) what they have is not autonomous driving or even a prototype of it; "unofficially" overselling the feature is the problem, not the name which is really the most honest part of it IMHO.Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2023, 11:57:15 pmThere is more than a single dimension "objectively good" - "objectively bad". Cars appeal to emotions, and just doing somethingdifferently enoughhas value in itself. Sure, it's not for the majority, and that's fine. It's good to have choices. Another point is, thinking that we are at an optimum is prone to go wrong. Experimentation is needed to see what happens.Optimizations often get stuck in local minimum we don't understand being local, unless we do random and sometimes weird perturbations. For example: despite being micro-optimized for aerodynamics, modern cars have worse aerodynamics than 20 years ago. And I don't mean the drag coefficient, that's only half of the equation; it has been optimized from decent to even better during last 30 years. But frontal area is the other half and it has been increasing with the SUV bullshit. Even non-SUVs have been turning into half-SUVs. And as always, I like having options, so SUVs, too, but I don't like every car being SUV-ish. Tesla Model3 is a fresh exception to this trend, which is also why it gets so excellent energy consumption numbers.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 10:11:51 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 18, 2023, 12:10:05 amI hate to say it, but the movie 'Airplane' is probably to blame for setting up an incorrect definition for the word autopilot long ago. Some people obviously took it seriously

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 11:10:40 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 18, 2023, 12:10:05 amThe original autopilots used of things like DC3s were quite limited, but modern onesarequite a lot more capable.Also, in the public mind, there is probably a lot of blurring between them & Automatic Landing Systems & the like.A more descriptive name for what the Tesla ones do (& is used by other manufacturers) is "Driver Assist".

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 12:55:48 pm
content: Considering that becuase of America cars with cruise control had to come with a warning that you must remain in your seat, I remeber talked of a person putting cruise on and going to the back to make food and crashed as the assumed it would take care of that but I can't be sure that isnt just a dig at the American culture.So I am surprised that Tesla has been allowed to use the term based on the common interpretation of it. But I have never looked at the manuals to see what it says. Though I see many videos of people going on about the self driving nature of these cars and that doesn't help with the muddy waters we are already in.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 02:27:10 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on December 18, 2023, 11:10:40 amFair enough, but "driver assist" is something every manufacturer has and means stuff like adaptive cruise control and maybe keep-on-the-lane (no overtaking or anything). What Tesla has is in awkward position: significantly more advanced than most "driver assist" systems, but still way too far from true autonomous driving. It's hard for the marketing folks to honestly sell without either under- or overselling it.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 02:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on December 18, 2023, 05:24:07 amA German court ruled that Tesla cannot talk about 'full potential for autonomous driving' or 'Autopilot' in its ads in the country.https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33338288/germany-tesla-autonomous-driving-court-ruling/Still Tesla German owners manual 2023 talks about auto pilot:https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/de_de/GUID-101D1BF5-52D2-469A-A57D-E7230BBEE94B.htmlTesla appealed but was overruled 2022:https://teslamag.de/news/exklusiv-web-werbung-tesla-autopilot-fsd-option-deutschland-zulaessig-51722Tesla forced to buyback cars:https://www.autoevolution.com/news/autopilot-makes-tesla-buy-back-another-ev-in-germany-it-s-the-third-one-until-now-195163.htmlA pilot are not requested by Boeing/Airbus to "always hold their hands on the steering" when autopilot is on. It is well known a jet these days can take off, fly and land all by it self with no intervention of a hominid or monkey.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 03:08:17 pm
content: Stainless steel panel production.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 03:10:01 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 18, 2023, 12:55:48 pmThat's literally a skit in Anchorman 2...One of the funniest moments in the film IMO. The setup for the following carnage is perfect, even if the whole thing is entirely predictable. But it's kinda low-brow comedy in general so... yeah, don't expect much more.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 03:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: MT on December 18, 2023, 02:59:38 pmThere are no rapidly appearing obstacles you need to rapidly steer around either. Must never be left unobserved as airplane autopilot may disengage or malfunction if sensors are not reading right.QuoteAgain, must happen under human control and with parameters set first, involves a lot of human work. Won't happen by itself, you cannot just set destination airport and expect autopilot to take off and land.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 03:35:03 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 18, 2023, 03:17:25 pmEver heard of pilots and autopilots steering straight into mountains, ground and other aircrafts?QuoteIt can, military have done it for decades and numerous times been very close to mid air collisions with regular passanger jets etc.https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/02/26/pilotless-autonomous-self-flying-planes/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 03:53:55 pm
content: Quote from: MT on December 18, 2023, 03:35:03 pmEver heard about straw man? Those are not rapidly appearing obstacles, and you cannot steer around them in a split second. They happen due to planning mistakes and other poorly made decisions rather than being unable to rapidly steer around. Flying a passenger or cargo airplane is a slow methodical process. If a pilot sees the need to steer rapidly, very likely it's already way too late.