Photographing PCB'S - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: David
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 10:20:22 am
content: Hi all,Just a quick question... Does anyone know of some optimal settings/conditions for photographing PCBs? I would like to take some good quality photos of a board but can't find the best way to light them etc!Cheers,Dave

author: wd5gnr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 10:34:11 am
content: If the board has no parts on it, place it on a flatbed scanner.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 11:37:15 am
content: Use a tripod and a remote trigger so you can extend the shutter length. Try lighting it in different ways to avoid glare and strong shadows.If you want to do something fancy then google 'diy lightbox'

author: armandas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 11:40:03 am
content: The only condition you need is light. Get lots of that, if you can. If you have to use the flash, taking pictures from further away and using optical zoom will help to avoid overexposure.The other thing you need is practice

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 12:04:50 pm
content: condition 1: you have a tripodsetup the camera on tripod and perpendicular facing to the pcb. set to lower ISO, smaller aperture (higher f value), trigger using timer, if you have image stabilization function, turn it OFF... and snap!condition 2: you dont have a tripod (handheld)set to highest (acceptable quality) ISO, largest aperture (lowest f value), trigger one shot, if you have image stabilization function, turn it ON... and snap! snap several times until u get the sharpest picturefor both condition:arrange so that majority of lights comes from the 45 degree front of the PCB (not from the back), zoom to longest focal length is preferable to lessen distortion, as long as it will not create undesirable blur image. fill your image with pcb as much as you can to get highest resolution of it. set exposure compensation (EV) to +ve to brighten shadow area. edit in image editing software if necessary to get the best output. shooting indoor is much preferable rather than directly below the sun.for condition 1, if you have an external flash. you can set your camera to longer shutter speed (say 1-2 seconds), set your flash to manual mode in your hand. while the camera is taking picture, you can move your flash around pcb very quickly while pressing test button many times to create multiple lighting effectcondition1 is much preferable than condition 2. so.... get a descent tripod!getting more lighting equipments is more preferable, but the money will tell how much u gonna needor else... u need to know how to harness the light around you.or even several DIY incandescent bulbs will do (with white balance set correctly)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 12:20:58 pm
content: Lighting is everything.A $100 point'n'shoot in great light can take better shots than a $5000 camera and top of the range macro lens in poor light!The easiest solution is to take it outside on an overcast day (direct sun can be harsh)The best solution is to get a "soft box" from ebay. They only cost like $30 or something and cast a nice even light across the entire product. You can build them yourself too.Like this one:http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120528240299Dave.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 12:42:26 pm
content: There is no an easy answer ... I am an fanatic hobbyist photographer ... and I had become as such,from the moment that I got one semi-professional camera .I took the learning curve to explore it fully .The PCB as photographic subject its very tricky .Involves Macro settings and Lens , plus external Digital flash , plus extension flash cable.Here is how I started to build by extension cable ,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=524.0by splitting in half the original Olympus cable ( 60$ ),and the next move are to build the extension it self ,plus one box with switches on it , that will disable the TTL commands , and force the Flash unit to operate in Manual mode.Then I will be able to have the light source set correctly ( Flash unit + braked 500$ ) ,and with the special High quality Macro lens ( 200 $ ) , I will be able to get the perfect shot even for SMT PCB's .And because my friend@shafriis watching..I will use dual tripods ... One Mini SliK ( Japan ) 2.5 Kilos ability.And another normal sized one ( Japan ) , for the camera it self .My advice to any one who are interested about getting it to Macro photography ..Get the proper camera first !!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 02:18:49 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on May 17, 2010, 12:42:26 pmyo brother! Kiriakos-GR! i'm here listening, and i'm...... waaaatching youuuuu hahaha!ok, i just setup a simple 30 minutes or so "PCB Photographing" just to share some idea, it consist:1) A Camera2) A Tripod3) A Flash4) The CircuitAuxiliary:1) My Son's Studying Table2) Couples of Books3) A White A4 PaperThe PCB is taken in complete darkness, manual focus, manual mode, no cable, just one shot shutter trigger, several times of flash burst at 1/64 setting from various angles. The key point here, is the lighting, the more source and the more distributed the light, the more preferable the image will be, just as armandas and dave pointed out. and the lesser the dark area will be. I think in the PCB Photographing, the idea to show all possible components, tracks holes etc, without too much rendered in the dark area. just as in most photography discipline, not too much difference there i think. its just in the case of PCB, we should watch out a little bit for glare and reflection as well, coz that will put some area out of sight.a.jpg = the circuit after PP, cropped and resampledb.jpg = the setup (dont mind the background pls)c.jpg = original croppedd.jpg = original cropped PP to sharpen and brighten

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 02:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on May 17, 2010, 02:18:49 pmNice basic setup ... but with the addition of the Macro lens and flash with about 40 output deviations,I could possibly tell how fresh is the silicone in the chip too ..

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 03:08:33 pm
content: Well , what I am trying to say , other than lightly teasing @shafri ..Are that with all this big lens and even with the additional Macro, the on board flash unit,cannot function any more , because the lens system gets in the way.Finding solutions so to get your external flash to do the job, its just necessary.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 06:04:47 pm
content: The importance of using an external flash in my opinion is getting the light off-axis, so you don't get ugly reflections. Anything else can be improvised, a bed sheet (or white shirt) can work as make-shift softbox. Lack of power levels can be fixed by getting the flash farther away and adding more layers of cloth between it and your subject (has the added advantage of making the light softer). For more details than you ever wanted to know, see the Strobist website.You can't do this with the internal flash, in that case I'd rather use ambient light, eg. overcast sunlight or room lights. You'll definitely need a tripod for the latter (slow shutter speeds), but it's helpful in any case to focus and compose properly.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 07:52:29 pm
content: Well , other than some one, who is getting some pictures of PCB's ,there is and the Macro world fanatics,those are justified to get Strobes , or what ever, it will make their tasks easier.There is no Ant in this planet , that good looking , that I will pay an strobe for it ..

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 08:32:18 pm
content: I'm not sure which country you are in. Here in the UK, Maplin sell this portable light box for £10http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=38260Im sure other countries will have something similar, even if it is only via Ebay.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 08:34:11 pm
content: I guess the level of help here really depends on what quality the OP is looking for. Usable pictures to show off work or something to put on a sales page.I just use a cheap chinese remote flash trigger for remote flash. I modified it with an external 433Mhz antenna to increase the range and reliability.http://www.higginstribe.com/temp/20080409-cactus-mod-004.jpg... but really, I don't do anything special to take pictures of PCB's since they aren't for commercial sales or anything and I don't get any personal satisfaction getting the perfect PCB photo. As long as it's all fairly clear and no glares is all I care about. I don't even colour correct or post. I think I've used a flash and umbrella once or twice with them, but really for PCB's, they are static scenes, there's no problem using available light. I've only done a couple macro shots.http://www.higginstribe.com/uc/msp430/rf-node/20091104-msp430-close-001.jpghttp://www.higginstribe.com/uc/z8e/w5100/20090402-PCB-003.jpg

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 08:48:27 pm
content: The cheap Chinese remote flash triggers are not TTL,another factor are the cameras brand, and compatibility.And the major than all , to own the damn expensive digital flash unit, that are compatible with your camera,and its loaded with all the settings that you will ever need , for TTL or manual .The latest and greatest flash units and cameras , includes remote control systems, and also the latest digital flash units comes ready to operate as remote controlled , and even have dual channels , so to use two flash units at the same time.The point are the cost ... I was waiting 10 years to see my Olympus digital flash to drop from 400EUR ,to 110 EUR as Used (plus shipping) , so to get one.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 08:52:22 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on May 17, 2010, 08:32:18 pmThe soft box are good for small objects , not for PCB's .The PCB needs direct light .

author: David
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 09:12:02 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on May 17, 2010, 08:32:18 pmI spotted this today, will be purchasing one tomorrow! Thanks for all the replies. I don't require "professional" photo's, just good enough for a large poster (white background) and other similar things. I will post my results in due course.Dave

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 09:38:59 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on May 17, 2010, 08:48:27 pmI have expensive Sigma flashes with TTL that I never use anymore. I'm not a photojournalist and all my pictures are under semi controlled environments. My most used flashes are Sunpak 383's which are $80. I have three with the chinese remotes and all three will trigger.Strobist is a good site/blog for lighting advice on the cheap.http://strobist.blogspot.com/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2010, 10:08:21 pm
content: These examples were done outside on an overcast afternoon with a cheap Macro lens on my Olympus E510http://www.eevblog.com/images/Fluke28jacks2.jpghttp://www.eevblog.com/images/Fluke28pcbbottom1.jpghttp://www.eevblog.com/images/Fluke28pcbtop1.jpgThe standard lens is capable of similar results with a lot less bokeh.And there really is not much difference from my point'n'shoot in macro mode either.You just need nice even lightDave.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 12:27:07 am
content: Well the true Macro lens offers magnification plus clear center and surroundings ..Any camera with standard lens , at macro , can go only for a clear center , the surroundings will be blurred.The depth of field in Macro are always limited , but the uniform and sharp coverage its totally dependent on the Good macro Lens .Sharpness does not cames with lots of mega pixels in the image file ..My camera its only 2.1MP , and every single pixel offers an crispy detail with the proper lens on it.(with converters as Wide - Tele - Macro )Thats the truth and only the truth ... so help me GodStill , the ones who does not need perfection , and they are happy with their results , its the lucky ones.They do not have to spent much cash, and only very few, will find out that their pictures are average.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 01:45:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 17, 2010, 10:08:21 pmVery nice. Cloudy days are definitely a good time for this. Like having a 1000 mile softbox.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 03:55:19 am
content: Quote from: TheDirty on May 18, 2010, 01:45:52 amduring a very bright shiny day, placing yourself and the PCB in the shade area will give you somewhat good ambient lighting, esp when the surronding such as wall, floor or ceiling (or even your shirt and trouser) are white or bright colored. if that dont give you much lighting, then you can place the PCB under the sun, and block it with semi transparent white material, such as shirt, linen, paper etc. to add more ummph, you can "diffuse reflect" the sunlight from the sides using white mounting boards or other matte (non shiny) materials.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 04:21:51 am
content: I really don't know why everyone is talking about external TTL flashes, that's all just too expensive and complicated IMO. Fine if you've got the gear and the experience, but otherwise just take the unit outside on a sunny or overcast day and you'll get excellent light and good results with almost any camera.If you need to shoot indoors then get a big cheap soft box and a lamp.AFAIK, professionals who photograph products use soft boxes and consistent studio lighting, not flashes. Happy to be corrected though!Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 04:58:46 am
content: Yeah, I wouldn't recommend someone to buy an expensive flash just to photograph a few PCB's. A flash just gives you more control and allows you to work faster. You also have to be more aware of light, reflections and shadows to light something yourself, just using some pleasing ambient light is easier. The key for PCB's is soft light, and you don't want (much) light close to the lens axis, since this will create direct reflections (obscures things like markings on IC's). Using a built-in flash is basically the worst you can do (except for total darkness).If you're going to use improvised tools, I'd skip the softbox and just use any old white piece of cloth. It's easier to improvise light modifiers than light sources in my opinion. The mentioned Strobist website contains plenty of articles about DIY light modifiers. Incandescent lights produce very little light compared to flashes. A reasonable hotshoe flash might discharge about 50-75J within 1ms (not sure about the efficiency of the flash tube). A basic studio flash will be between 100-300J or so. A 100W incandescent light will produce only 100mJ in that same time (with worse efficiency), so you need much longer shutter speeds (not a problem with a sturdy tripod and static subject).Note that a softbox is a (often square) diffusion panel that attaches to the front of a light, those white tents you can put a product in are called light tents. They are useful because they don't require much skill or thought to use (the position of the light isn't very critical).Good studio flashes will be quite consistent, but I guess you meant continuous light. Continuous light is gaining in popularity, mainly because camera's get more sensitive and they're also useful for doing video. But studio flashes are definitely more popular, since they just produce more light in a smaller package (useful if you want to overpower the sun). Continuous lights make it easier to preview reflections and shadows, although studio flashes have a modeling lamp that allows this to some degree. Light tents are a bit of a shotgun approach, so depending on the required look, a photographer might choose to light something with just softboxes or umbrella's.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 09:11:58 am
content: Quote from: shafri on May 18, 2010, 05:16:56 amWow... hold your horses Boss ...Well my ( our ) Flash unit , in order to deliver precision, it haves one scalability from 1GN to 40GN ,equals to 40 deferent output levels ..Imagine one car with 40 options in the Gear box ... the proper use of the correct gear at every speed,makes the car to move fast , with lots of safety , and with the minimum waste of fuels. ( aka best economy )The great part in this conversation are , that all the options and possibilities are all ready presented.What looks as fanny , is the ones who promote the Manual use of Oscilloscopes , and consider the use of the TTL flashes, as "complex" in manual mode ..Still I have one explanation , the true semi professional cameras, has one large learning curve ,some people find this boring , some others a pleasure to do.Photography its an art - an hobby - and a full job , if you chose to master it,the results in your pictures will shine too.And if there is an "bottom line" about the "Auto - Manual" , it would be , that the user it must understand how the camera works , so to be able to correct it , if the Auto-pilot stars acting weird ..Thats an sample of macro work, I had become an hacker in the Olympus gear ..

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 09:53:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 18, 2010, 04:21:51 amI totally agree! Flash (of any kind) is NOT something you want when imaging PCB. Difuse light from softbox or some other source will give much better results.My photo of Rigol PSU taken under difuse light (Canon 40D with Sigma 17-70):http://img21.imageshack.us/i/rigolpsu.jpg/One more thing, you NEED tripod or some kind of fixture for you camera. And you need to close aperture on your lens to something like f16 or more to get greater DOF (of course, that value depends of camera, lense, distance...)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 10:55:22 am
content: Quote from: flolic on May 18, 2010, 09:53:35 amThe question if the light is flash or continuous is completely independent from the hardness of the light. Flash can be really soft (external flash behind a large bed sheet, or bounced from the ceiling), and continuous light can be really hard (spots from far away). Softboxes are usually designed for flashes, since they can't easily dissipate the heat from continuous lights. Light tents can be lit with either continuous or flash light.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 11:47:21 am
content: Well my own last contribution in this thread will be two words about the expensive flash units.Even if I hate too , their pricing ...I must admit that their 40 steps of output as power , plus the motorized head ( yes the head inside has an motor ) that offers control even in the degrees that the light will cover as ( Tele - Wide ) ,are truly practically useful .And saves you money , that you had to spent on other gear like extra lighting systems & reflectors and boxes.And it does not saves just cash , it saves you space too , any extra gear needs space to be storage'd too.My "old" Olympus digital flash , other than the goodies that has as a single device ,comes with an extra add on clear plastic , that helps to become even more wide !!And additionally you can get or make , one diffuser like the one pictured .So , by having so much control , you can do anything , and everything , with very few extra tools.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 11:53:31 am
content: I agree fully. For document quality photos, not artistic, the 3 most vital things are:a tripoda timerdiffuse lighting, meaning not spot.Timer shots are the key, this is to keep photos sharp and clear, without the blurriness from hand vibrations. You can adjust the camera for best results, but usually low ISO settings and low speeder give sharpest results. The key is to capture details as much as possible,such as those tiny labels on parts.Diffuse lighting can be purchased through a photo tent cube.Its just a white 5 sided translucent cube, each side is a white bed sheet material or white translucent plastic to even out the light, including the base. You carry a sheet of black or colored board for different colored objects. The shooting direction is the open side of the box. For very large objects you need larger cubes or white screens, but its just the cube idea.Its cheap, many can be dissassembled and are washable, and takes great documentation photos. Runs in the $20 US range.Quote from: EEVblog on May 18, 2010, 04:21:51 am

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 12:33:01 pm
content: About the true scalability of the FL40 I had to dick up one old thread of my ..GN403633312826242220181715141312119.99.18.47.77.06.45.95.45.04.64.23.83.53.23.02.72.52.3At TTL this unit it must be used in a minimum of 5 meters distance ( too powerful )Thats why I am making this TTL-Manual external control box.To use all the "goodies" that my money had pay for.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2010, 10:54:00 pm
content: A quick tip for using a point & shoot digital cam on macro with flash - hold a sheet of normal white copy paper at about 45 degrees between the flash and lens to act as a diffuser.However nothing beats a proper macro lens : This was taken handheld with two Ikea 3W LED bendy lights.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2010, 03:48:27 am
content: I have been very surprised at the quality of the fill-in flash on my Canon Eos 450D. On the few photos I have taken, it looks "hardly there", but in comparison to no-flash shots taken before and after, it really helps. If you are using a compact with built-in flash, try taping a thin layer of paper handkerchief over the flash unit to diffuse it.I took this photo (more what I would regard as a snap really) for the Altera Nios II Embedded Evaluation Kit review for Element-14. The photo here is 1/3rd size and squashed for JPEG. Obviously it is far from perfect, but was done with room lighting (tungsten + 4x20W halogen) and no flash, on the camera's kit lens and no tripod. Photoshopped to make it level and tweak the brightness levels. Note the pincushion distortion due to using the lens at a relatively wide-angle setting. PCBs can be strangely satisfying to photograph properly and make a good exercise in understanding how your camera works.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2010, 11:31:03 am
content: These are good photos, if you were trying to idealize it you'd like to see all the parts, labels and connections as sharply and clearly as possible without further ado from the viewer.In both the photos quoted from below, a light source dominates coming from the left of the photo. This puts shadows.On the Altera board, near the switch on the left, it obscures the labels on components just above the URL mark. It might be easily viewed by adjusting the photos gamma and had we got it in full size. Also, the shadows obscure the components just below the USB jack.On the Whitewing board, you can't make out the PCB traces or the component near P4, on the right.Not big things, but if done on a tent cube 99% of the time, mindlessly, it would come up even.Quote from: Zad on May 19, 2010, 03:48:27 am

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2010, 07:17:53 pm
content: Maybe my monitor gamma is running bright, because I can read the diode labels above the URL text. It is quite possible as my calibrated 24in monitor is away being repaired (4 weeks so far) and I am using a 21in Dell. There are no components between the switch and URL, just very dark blue PCB. The SOT23-3s below the USB socket are distinguishable too. With a board this size you are running into the problem of a reasonable resolution to use on the web (this is 1/3rd of the linear size of the original photo). I didn't want to use the original 13MP for fear of swamping the thread.I guess a lot depends on what the shot is for, there always has to be a balance between the "beauty" shot which looks good, and the technical shot which uses flat light and compromises the aesthetics in favour of information. If a photo is for information/instructional purposes and needs to be clear to the point where all component labels are readable, then I think you should probably consider using a diagram anyway.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2010, 08:25:59 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on May 19, 2010, 07:17:53 pmFor such issues , I use the auto levels in Photoshop 7 ( legal version ) ..I work with SONY CRT , any TFT behaves deferentially , so the (software control on brightness levels) its a warranty,that the picture file will be correctly optimized , and the error falls to the one who will view it.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2010, 12:14:27 am
content: The Huey is the cheapest, but the software is quite limited. I think you can get it to do what you want, which is native color temperature for TFT monitors and sRGB gamma curve, by choosing the right options (which are not obvious). I'm sure there are plenty of reviews. The idea that it constantly adjusts your display settings based on the ambient light sounds stupid to me, you don't want a calibrated device to change unannounced. You don't send out test equipment for calibration without telling the engineers either, since that could mean the results no longer correspond with previous results. The other devices are all fine, any differences in quality is just splitting hairs at this point. Important differences are an ambient light sensor, the ability to profile multiple monitors, and the ability to profile printers (but you pay big bucks for that feature).Monitor profiles are only used by color management aware applications, which includes most professional graphics software, and some consumer software and viewers. Most browsers don't support it, but Safari does (at least on Mac), and Firefox does (not sure if it's on by default). The software will also change the gamma curve and contrast, this will work in all applications, and should get the contrast about right. Colors in non-colormanagement-aware applications can't be trusted anyway.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2010, 03:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on May 20, 2010, 02:10:24 pmTrue, which is why you need a constant lighting for accurate color perception. Constantly changing calibration constants is not the solution, which is why none of the more expensive devices (as far as I'm aware) do this.Quote from: shafri on May 20, 2010, 02:10:24 pmThis was actually mainly the case for CRT's, and much less for LCD displays. The recommended profiling interval for LCD's is much longer (I think Bruce Fraser recommended something like six months or so).Quote from: shafri on May 20, 2010, 02:10:24 pmWindows color management (the MS ICM) will only do something if the application explicitly requests it. It can't do it if it doesn't know the source color space, so it can't magically correct all colors. The only thing that will apply is the gamma curve, which for some misguided reason is included in the color profile. It might be that the Windows Picture Viewer supports color management, I remember troubleshooting a problem that someone had with this once. Any serious application for dealing with photo's should support it, but I wouldn't bet on all consumer software supporting it.Quote from: shafri on May 20, 2010, 02:10:24 pmTrue, as long as you set your monitor to something like D65/sRGB and set the gamma/contrast correct (using something likethis), you're close enough for most work. Outside the graphics industry, you rarely find someone with a properly profiled monitor, so trying to have colors on website match for all users is madness. Making sure it's in sRGB and possibly including a profile is the best you can do. It is useful if you want to produce high-quality prints (either at home or at a lab), since color profiles for both the monitor and the printer/lab is the only way to stay sane. I definitely don't think that buying a piece of calibration hardware is necessary for photographing PCB's, but if you want to be sure your colors are correct, this is the only way. You can't expect monitors to have sane colors out-of-the-box, they're usually tuned for a very bright, saturated and high-contrast image so they stand out on the store shelves.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2010, 06:13:28 pm
content: Photoshop's save-for-web usually does a pretty good job of sorting the gamma and gamut for web applications. My monitor does come with a configuration file (which is installed) but inevitably when I set up Windows, Photoshop and the monitor how it recommends, it ends up WAY too bright and I invariably set it up by eye later. The Spyder has a very good reputation, but unless you are a pro photographer, I would find it very difficult to spend that much money on something that would only be needed once every blue moon.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2010, 06:49:41 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on May 20, 2010, 06:13:28 pmWhere did you see that ?Do you have another moon in Yorkshire, UK ?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2010, 03:29:00 pm
content: I just came across an example today. Attached is a screenshot showing the same image. The left is displayed in a browser that does not support color management (Opera), the right is in Firefox with color management enabled. The actual colors you see will obviously depend on the monitor (I did convert it to sRGB), but the one on the left is clearly more saturated and green than the one on the right. The one on the right is more accurate. This is on a monitor with a gamut larger than sRGB, so without color management, the sRGB gamut is stretched and becomes larger and more saturated in some directions. This is just to show why it's important to use color managed applications and equipment if you care about accurate colors, not to convince everyone to spend a lot of time and money on color management to prevent their green PCB's from getting greener.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2010, 04:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on May 22, 2010, 04:05:50 pmWell it does not look the same , the right one have a bit more detail, by trying to look under the water.But this is the major problem with all the software solutions,none of them are able to offer one worthy to mentioned improvement ..So by getting back - On topic .. The Macro lens are the true assisting tool for photographing small PCB's and anything as micro sized item ..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2010, 06:46:26 am
content: Just thought I'd so a few very quick snaps of a board using my new softbox studio lights (in an otherwise dark room with no lights):With my Olympus E510 and Macro Lens:http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Warp13a-MacroLens.jpgand the Kit Lens:http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Warp13a-KitLens.jpgand my old Fuji E550 compact camera in macro modehttp://www.alternatezone.com/images/Warp13a-E550.jpgThe softboxes:No doubt would be even more even light if I put the PCB inside it's own softbox as well.Dave.

author: dengorius
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2010, 01:24:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2010, 06:46:26 amYou should have spilled water over the pcb, i've been told it helps with the lighting

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2010, 10:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: dengorius on May 29, 2010, 01:24:15 pmWill I ever live that down?Dave.

author: dengorius
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2010, 11:19:38 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2010, 10:52:34 pmAhahah maybe, I'm sure that'll make a great t-shirt tho

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2010, 01:39:49 pm
content: QuoteThats the secondary lighting source ... where is the primary ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2010, 09:48:06 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on May 30, 2010, 01:39:49 pmThey are the primary light source in this case, exactly as shown.The room was otherwise dark.Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2010, 10:14:40 pm
content: I think Kiriakos meant that a softbox doesn't emit light, it only transmits/diffuses/reflects/absorbs it. The light source (eg. flash tube, incandescent bulb, LED's) inside it is the primary source of photons.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2010, 11:16:17 pm
content: Thanks alm , but no, I was clear enough ... this specific light system its called as secondary,because it is .And what it does are to soften the shadows , that the main flash system , will produce ..There is no way to get any natural colors , just with this system .Thats why the main flash unit are used as default primary source ..With out one powerful flash unit , this setup looks like chorus with out soprano .

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2010, 01:08:15 am
content: Two soft lights without a main light is a perfectly legitimate product shot setup. There is no issue here with colour correction if the lights have the same colour temperature, which they should.The sample shots are more than adequate. You can nitpick some glare on one and slightly OOF if you pixel peep, but there's no serious lighting issues with this setup.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2010, 01:40:58 am
content: It's important to note, that this is not portraiture. For portraiture you generally want certain main light/fill light setups in order for proper shadows. All balanced lights with no shadows is called flat lighting and the person being pictured doesn't look natural without proper shadows. For a technical photo of a static item, flat lighting is fine. If this was actually a product for sale and you wanted to add some drama to the product, you would light it with slight shadows and still two main soft lights may be used for this. Like this:...but, this all goes way beyond what this thread is about. It is not difficult to do a more than adequately detailed PCB shot without over thinking it as Dave has shown. Unless you're shooting for a catalog, I don't think anyone cares about perfect colour accuracy and dramatic shadows.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2010, 01:59:26 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on May 30, 2010, 11:16:17 pmAre you talking about key vs. fill light? It's quite common to use a softbox as key light, nothing wrong with that. Softboxes might slightly alter the color balance, but anyone caring that much about color accuracy is using a closed loop system like a ColorChecker anyway. By the way, fill light doesn't soften shadows, it only makes them lighter (reduces contrast). You need a larger light source as key light (eg. softbox) for that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2010, 02:31:19 am
content: Quote from: TheDirty on May 31, 2010, 01:08:15 amI agree, the shots are more than adequate from these two lights (which use 4x50W Daylight CFL bulbs each).These were quick test shots on auto camera mode. No attempt was made to play around with settings and try to get a better result. So, no need for a main light at all.Sorry, they are of course not soft boxes, but "soft lights" so to speak.As I said, results would probably improve with having the product inside of those $30 ebay soft boxes.Soft boxes and soft lights are much easier (and cheaper) to use than any sort of flash system.These two huge studio soft lights ($180 for both, inc stands and bulbs), plus a soft box (say $30) costs a lot less than one external bottom of the range flash for my camera!Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2010, 03:07:36 am
content: Once again, a softbox is a type ofmodifier that you mount on the light. It's a fabric 'reflector' (pyramid shape) with one or more diffusion panels to get an even distribution of light. You mount either a flash or a continuous light source in it, and the softbox makes the source larger (compare the surface area of the front of the softbox with the surface area of your light). So a softbox is not cheaper than a flash system, a softbox is used with a flash or continuous system. Those other things are light tents, and are good for a very even, boring illumination. A light tent is also used with either flash or continuous lights.I'm not sure if completely illumination is optimal, I'd think you wouldn't want that much light reflecting from the top of the parts, since a direct reflection tends to obscure markings. For example, about half of the devices onthis PCBhave their markings obscured by direct reflections.This picture (water optional)with the main light from camera right has all markings clearly visible. But I'm sure you'll get acceptable pictures with completely flat lighting in a light tent.And yes, proprietary flashes with all the automation are expensive, but there are manual-only flashes available for $50 or so (searchthe Strobist sitefor recommendations), although studio flashes are a lot nicer for this kind of work (where you don't need the portability). You could probably also get a set of cheap studio flashes for $180.Continuous lights are easier to use (although the modeling light on studio flashes helps), but don't put out much light compared to similar-sized flashes. Not a problem as long as your subject is stationary, your camera is on a decent tripod and you don't have much ambient light to mess things up.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2010, 02:13:23 pm
content: OT..Quote from: shafri on May 31, 2010, 01:25:18 amBro, I have positive feelings for you too.. as I have for few more,my crime was that I acted like an overprotective father,and the misunderstanding, got born in minutes.I have found one specialized in electronics, Greek forum, but I will keep contact with this too.