What to have in a beginners lab? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: doctorm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 03:24:43 am
content: i was just curious. im designing my room and i want to have a space for working on my electronics projects/readings/whatever and i know i need a multimeter and parts but what else would be useful. im not dealing with anything AC right now just to let you know. but what else would i need to have on hand?

author: gobo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 05:21:56 am
content: while they are a bit dated, there are two articles i suggest to anyone wanting to build a workbench.from jim williams of linear technology:http://www.edn.com/archives/1995/010595/01df4.htmthe other is chapter 2 - choosing the right equipment, from "troubleshooting analog circuits" by bob pease, formerly of national semiconductor. i thought this was out of print, but it looks like amazon has it under a different publisher. it also looks like google books has this on line.http://books.google.com/books?id=3kY4-HYLqh0C&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=bob+pease+choosing+the+right+equipment&source=bl&ots=opQTBt14rl&sig=NaiHRwJmjJS_ARrJ4TuVt9LUlKE&hl=en&ei=xV81TPqLMIOClAfvu5XVBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=falsewillims is a big fan of tek scopes, old tube-type tek scopes. but he points out the value in older test equipment. i do believe in his position of, if you buy it you should be able to fix it. but alas that is rapidly going away.pease offers up no nonsense approach to the essentials.keep in mind, these guys are analog gurus (to some of us they are legends.) with pic's and avr's everyone is on the digital bandwagon. but you still have to have analog.

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 10:14:14 am
content: I really like having a digital logic training system, like this K&H ETS-7000;LinkYou get a big breadboard, multiple power supplies,function generators, logic switches and indicators and a few other odds and ends... Very handy when fiddling, most of your inputs are right there. The K&H is probably my second choice, but a Wisher Wishmaker 2 is far better- I picked up one yesterday, second hand for a song.A sturdy logic probe is really good. Invaluable when playing with digital stuff. I built one up from a kit, called a PICProbe, which is fantastic, and gave me a great intro into SMD work.If you haven't got them,a pair of IC pullers. Stabbing yourself sucks, get the proper tool!A bit of telecoms wire- the thick, single-core stuff. I was lucky enough to score a control cable from a substation being decommissioned- PERFECT for breadboards!A good desk lamp- I like the sprung-frame circular flourescent-tube ones with the big magnifying glass in the middle- Makes some jobs that much easier!A chair/bench that gets your face just above bench level. Leaning over will give you a sore back very fast!Not essential stuff by any means, but stuff I've really appreciated having.

author: slburris
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 03:57:06 pm
content: Let me repost a message I put on the Electronics 101 Yahoo group some time ago.Boy, did I get flamed for some of it then -- I'll put my asbestos suit back on :-)This was aimed more at the advanced hobbyist, sobeginners should consider just the first few items....This was more about test equipment than tools, like cutters, soldering irons,and the like, but maybe you'll find it useful.--------------------------------------------------I got asked today what kind of test equipment an advanced hobbyistshould get, and what was more important. The more I thought about it,the more I found this wasn't a completely simple question to answer.So, I've now made my list, which I'll put out there to be shredded :-)Additions or comments welcome! The list is in the order of to beacquired first to last as funding permits, or from common to esotericif you prefer.1) Handheld MultimeterBuy a cheap one if you must, then as soon as you can, hand it toa friend and go buy a decent multimeter. Decent here means Fluke,and by that I mean go get a Fluke 87-V. Yes, whine about the price,go scrape up spare change and convert it to an Amazon gift certificateat a Coinstar machine, and go buy it!It's like buying cheap wire cutters, then finally getting a decentpair and wondering why you spent all this time with such junk.2) Analog OscilloscopeI'm personally partial to the old Tektronix 22XX and 24XX seriesscopes, but you can either buy used or new. But without a scope,you're going to have a hard time debugging anything serious.I wouldn't recommend getting a digital scope until you've hadexperience with an analog scope.3) Logic probeCan't tell you how many times I just want to know if a signal changedstate. Just get a logic probe that can beep at you on a state change.High bang for the buck in my opinion.4) Function generator/synthesizerYou'll need this to do any kind of analog alignment, test filters,etc. Look for one which has a 10Mhz frequency standard inputif you can (see below).5) Frequency CounterAlso look for one with a 10Mhz frequency standard input. Tryfor at least a 1Ghz counter. I got a Racal-Dana 1998 countersurplus for < $80.6) StandardsGet a nice little voltage standard:http://www.voltagestandard.com/Sometimes standard cells come up on Ebay, but they don't tolerateabuse well.Get a 10 Mhz GPS locked frequency standard. Surplus TrimbleThunderbolts are available for < $100. Connect the output toall equipment that takes a 10Mhz standard input (see #4 and #5).Now your frequency counters and synthesizers are far more accuratethan the manufacturer ever expected them to be. And you don'thave to wonder if they are calibrated or not.7) Digital OscilloscopeDon't get rid of your analog scope, but add a digital scope toyour bench. Rigol DS1052E's are cheap for what you get. Or youcan step up to more mainstream stuff like LeCroy's WaveAce. But ifyou whined about the Fluke multimeter, you're going to really whinenow.I tend to prefer standalone instruments rather than have a bunchof USB instruments hanging off a PC, but that's a personal choice.ESR MeterAt some point you will have to deal with low ESR capacitors.Get something likehttp://www.anatekcorp.com/blueesr.htmorhttp://www.prc68.com/I/ESRmicro.shtml9) LCR meterSomething to measure inductors and capacitors. Haven't gottenthis myself yet, so no recommendations10) Logic AnalyzerSooner or later, if you do any complex digital electronics at all,you're going to need to look at more signals than your digitalscope can capture. Get a logic analyzer. For standalone, youcan get Tektronix 1240's (100Mhz) inexpensively, just make sure itcomes with the pods.For more modern USB connected stuff, tryhttp://www.saleae.com/logic/features/orhttp://www.pctestinstruments.com/11) Spectrum Analyzer/Tracking Generator/Vector Network AnalyzerLet's you look at signals over frequency, instead of a signalover time like a scope would do. Invaluable if you do any seriousanalog stuff.Normally, this stuff is horrendously expensive, and repairing asurplus unit is for experts only. But there's an alternative:http://www.scottyspectrumanalyzer.com/Different Scott than me -- I'm no RF expert :-)Build a 3Ghz spectrum analyzer. A nice project to keep youoccupied.I'm sure there's other interesting stuff, but this is what comesto mind at the moment.Scott

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 06:12:49 pm
content: Fairly decent, why did you get flamed? What was their objection?Quote from: slburris on July 08, 2010, 03:57:06 pm

author: slburris
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 06:27:50 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on July 08, 2010, 06:12:49 pmI got flamed by the "I can by 10 multimeters for what the Fluke costs" crowd.Then I got flamed by the "I can by a USB scope for $100, what do I need an analogscope or standalone DSO for?" people.It's really difficult to get people to understand that getting a good set of tools, rather thancheap cheesy crap, is important for any craft.Who hasn't bought bargain screwdrivers that turn out to be useful for nothingmore than stirring paint because the heads are so soft they can't grip the screwswell? Same for electronics.Scott

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 06:40:11 pm
content: I don't see any big issues either. You can argue about priorities, and it does depend on the type of work you do (eg. digital, audio, RF), but nothing worth flaming about in my opinion. I wouldn't recommend a beginner to out and buy all of it at the same time, unless you have money to burn. A basic lab in my opinion would be something like DMM, scope, power supply and function generator. You can do most of the measurements with this, most other tools are basically more sensitive, accurate, powerful and convenient ways for the same thing. For example, you can use a scope as frequency counter, except that it's a lot less accurate and less convenient. A scope can be used as logic probe, but you have to look up at the screen, and it's a lot larger. A scope can also be used as a two channel logic analyzer with very primitive triggering and no storage, and can even be used as an inaccurate AC/DC voltmeter. After you've got some experience, you'll be in a better position to select equipment and determine requirements.About cheap screwdrivers, I actually use these fairly regularly for abuse I wouldn't do with any quality screwdriver, like prying, but wouldn't recommend them instead of real tools.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 07:48:05 pm
content: Sorry to hear, but I hope that doesn't happen here, so far everyone is civil. In the end its all fun in learning what devices and electronic phenomena do, and maybe making or repairing something with this knowledge. One can get stuff done with many types of gear, or many techniques and parts. There is seldom just one way.If you want to buy reference and research level gear, by all means, eBay has changed the price point of equipment in a huge way; I'd never expect individuals to own old HP cesium clocks, and some do, like the time nuts:http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/12/time_hackersYou'll get deeper insight into electronics simply by trying to work your equipment and can probably notice subtle differences in measurement methods that would be invisible to you with ordinary equipment, .e.g. 4 wire versus 2 wire ohm readings. It about fun and learning doing it too.Quote from: slburris on July 08, 2010, 06:27:50 pm

author: slburris
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 08:21:58 pm
content: Yeah, I'm on the time-nuts list too, but the most exotic thing I have isa Rubidium standard (LPRO-101) which was less than $100from China. Owning cesium clocks is too expensive.The time-nuts folks have been arguing for months about who'smeasurement technique is better -- that's getting old fast.Much more fun to talk to people working on more mainstreamstuff here! :-)Scott

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 08:28:19 pm
content: At least they won't flame you because they think that a $5 crystal oscillator from China is just as good.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 10:03:03 pm
content: Impressive! And coming from China you can check its accuracy and cross check the accuracy of your collection of lab grade gear.Quote from: slburris on July 08, 2010, 08:21:58 pmQuote from: alm on July 08, 2010, 08:28:19 pm

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 10:16:25 pm
content: Agree fully with alm's view. A newbie building a workbench will still need to choose the specs of the gear for your lab. The price rises high the more precise and accurate your gear is.To optimize your selection of equipment, you need to know something about electronics and the type of building or experimenting you'll do. A simple handheld DMM can range from the cheapo $3 no-names to $1000 Gossen Metrawatt. Its easy to read what the difference are, but how do you know you need it?There are education specific equipment packages geared for learning electronics and small project design work. If you make it past the need for those all-in-one tools, I'd bet you know clearly what better equipment you need. If you don't make it beyond it, it'll only run you $200, and unlike eBay gear or hand me down's from schools, you are buying new, so it will work without guess work. For example:http://www.syscompdesign.com/CGR101.htmlQuote from: alm on July 08, 2010, 06:40:11 pmQuote from: doctorm on July 08, 2010, 03:24:43 am

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 11:54:36 pm
content: Quote from: slburris on July 08, 2010, 06:27:50 pmI agree, and my friend agrees, too:http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8200Would you rather have 10 multimeters that give you the wrong answer or one that gives you the correct answer?As for time references, a GPS receiver will work just about as well as an actual atomic clock until you get into the sub-millisecond range. Fortunately, electronics generally do not need extremely good time accuracy at that level.

author: RayJones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2010, 11:57:48 pm
content: My personal belief is a reasonable adjustable power supply would be a good first step.Preferably with an adjustable current limit.Definitely a breadboard for quick lash ups.Then you need test equipment, and the multimeter is the first obvious choice.Then it is well worth pursuing an oscilloscope.Then you start to get more field orientated which have specific tools of their own.eg digital, audio, radio etc.Where you interests lie is what should determine what you want.eg if you don't have much interest in RF stuff, then a signal generator is probably not a wise investment, but a waveform generator could be handy for both audio and digital work.

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2010, 12:49:40 am
content: Quote from: saturation on July 08, 2010, 07:48:05 pmMy two favorite bits in there were:QuoteI've got three self setting clocks in my room, two wall clocks and a wristwatch. One day the power went out, and as I leaned back in my chair in frustration I looked at the one I have on the wall above. As I was looking I caught the reflection off my now blank monitor of the other wall clock on the opposite wall, and the seconds were updating slightly off, something like a half second. When I went over to look, the far wall clock's little 'I've updated recently' icon was absent. This lead to two hours of head scratching and poking around until I determined that I'd hung it right in front of a power wire in the wall. Moving it a foot to the right allowed it to get a fix on the NTSB signal again. Good times!Quote

author: RayJones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2010, 01:10:46 am
content: We have a system at work that schedules new tasks with one computer system, but the resultant data uses the clock from a second PC.Despite having both system's synchronised using NTP, the occasion will occur when the data from the second PC leads the scheduled time.Certainly only having one clock is a GOOD thing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2010, 02:21:30 am
content: Quote from: slburris on July 08, 2010, 03:57:06 pmThe only absolutely "essential items" IMO are:1) multimeter (preferably 2)2) oscilloscope (analog will do, digital more versatile, no cheap USB junk please)3) Power supplies (lots of them, with variable current limiting)4) Soldering iron (proper temp controlled), preferably 2 for SMD work.Those are the must-have's. The rest I would deem to be nice to have but not essential.But of course, it depends on what stuff you work on, so a huge YMMV.Dave.

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2010, 11:15:39 am
content: Here's the Wishmaker that arrived on Friday, finally got a photo of it;You get; 8 logic switches and indicators (dual colour LEDs), two debounced pulse switches, an inbuilt logic probe, two BCD displays, a frequency counter, a 1Hz-1Mhz pulse generator(aka logic pulser),a 1Hz to 100kHz function generator, FOUR power supplies-two fixed (+5v, -5v), two adjustable (+&- 1.2-15v) and a dandy little analogue multimeter of unspecified accuracy... Not to mention the acres of breadboard!I got that for $75, to my doorNext aqusitions;New DMM. The little Fluke 117 tries hard, but can't see many microamps.New Scope. A 6Mhz, single channel scope that's going on 50 years old is pretty cool, but not always the most useful tool. I see a Rigol in my future.

author: NJC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 13, 2010, 09:44:49 am
content: The whole scope thing always gives me angst. as a student i dont have the money for a scope, on the other hand I know exactly how useful they are. I'm sitting next to a nice new Tektronix at work desk right now. having used scopes for almost every project i do in the labs at school (personal or otherwise) i know how important one is. i want one bad, but i cant rationalize spending a few hundred dollars on one when high end chips like fpga's and dps's cost so much. one problem for me in particular is that i work with VERY low frequency analogue stuff, < 10kHz (biomedical applications). i have the saleae logic for my higher frequency digital stuff, which i absolutely love (minus the SDK, and lack of a labview driver).I guess this rant ends in a question. Does anyone have any suggestions for a very low frequency scope? one that I do not have to build?@McPeteThat is awesome! I had one similar that was given to me years ago that was probably 15 years old when it was given to me, plus it was broken. I had no idea they sold modern versions of that with the mini function generator and everything. Cool tool. I'm gonna be looking for some other cheaper ones with maybe less bells and whistles. I just really need a function generator and some nice power supplies with a breadboard deal.-NJC__________________________________http://msp430launchpad.blogspot.com/

author: slburris
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2010, 02:44:25 pm
content: Quote from: NJC on July 13, 2010, 09:44:49 amWell, how about the DSO nano for $89?http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.htmlYour frequency requirements are low enough, as long as you don't need dual trace capability.If you need two inputs, how about the Parallax USB scope for $139?http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/BASICStampProgrammingKits/tabid/136/ProductID/46/List/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductNameScott

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2010, 03:14:25 pm
content: Quote from: NJC on July 13, 2010, 09:44:49 amThis just came up recently in another thread, the Tek 2225 was nominated.Hope that helps.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2010, 08:55:10 pm
content: For cheap scopes, the used analog scopes (preferably locally, since shipping might be the most expensive part) has often been discussed as the best solution. No need to spend hundreds of dollars on one, you should be able to get a decent 20-100MHz scope for well under $100 (depending on where you live), and it's very hard to beat it with new equipment without spending at least $400 on something like a Rigol/GW-Instek scope, and for some uses much more. Not much point in repeating the 'toy' DSO vs. old large analog scope argument again.For really low frequency signals (<1Hz sweep speeds or so), a DSO might be preferable, but 10kHz should be fine on any analog scope. The extra bandwidth might come in handy for other applications, like finding out if an amplifier is oscillating at a much higher frequency.