Siglent’s SDS1102CML - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tony3d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 07:49:38 am
content: What do you guys think of this scope for a first time user?

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 07:51:56 am
content: What?The other 73 threads on the SDS1102 didn't give you any ideas as to how good or bad this 'scope is?

author: BeerCannon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 10:49:55 pm
content: tony3d,I've been in the market for my first scope for months now. At first, I was really drawn to the Siglent SDS1102CML. But after gathering as much information as I could find (which isn't a lot..) I've noticed thatit's reallyit appears to be rather slow to update the display when you turn the knobs to change the horizontal or vertical scale. In fact, in the few videos where I could actually see someone turning the knobs, the lag between the turning of the knob and the update of the display looks to be so slow that I believe it would annoy me every time I made an adjustment. At this point I'm pretty sure I've eliminated the Siglent from my choices.It's almost identical in specs to the Rigol DS1102E, although it's slightly inferior in perhaps one or two specs. It does have a nice screen, larger than the Rigol but lesser in resolution than the 800x600 displays of similar Owons.In the end, I'm probably going to save a few more bucks and get a Rigol DS1074Z or see if the venerable DS1102E drops in price. I wish they would make something like a "DS1102Z" - 2 channel, 100Mhz version of the Z series at the same price point that the DS1102E has been holding ($400 USD) but I'm tired of waiting now.One other thing that eliminated the Siglent for me is that there seem to be firmware bugs with the 'latest' version, which is months old at least, and no new firmware has 'officially' been released via their site. I can't help but feel that they're not going to put much more effort into the SDS1102CML, but will focus their efforts on their upcoming 2000 series instead.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 12:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: BeerCannon on November 23, 2013, 10:49:55 pmPlease can ypu give addresses for these videos.Do you know what HW and FW version they are.Today most new FW is ending with .22.In share is still FW what version ending .13.There is perhaps reasons.Before publish new FW for public share there need do LOT of tests.Factory can install new FW to new scope. But there is many different older versions and it need be sure that new FW can upgrade safely. (example about problem is signal generator where new published FW used for older unit loose its serial number)But one is sure there is coming new FW updates.(but also it is good to remember that it is not "windows computer" what need every second day some upgrade.)With current FW there is not any urgent need for new FW. (there is bugs of course, I do not know any electronic software base equipment what is free from bugs. Look phones, look TV, look car, look washing machine, look camera, look what ever... mostly there is still bugs after product go to discontinued. With this need live. Also your wife have bugs - but still you live together happy, also I have bugs, but still my wife want live with me.I, have sold Rigols, Hanteks, Owons, Tektronix, HP's etc, also done lot of real work with many of Tek's and HP's R&S..etc (yes also these have been with bugs what newer have repaired by manufacturer)I have seen some videos where looks like some people with total lack of experience with any test and measurement equipment have just get his first oscilloscope and then before he learn anything how to use it he start video camera and start playing just like with nintendo without any idea what is this toy... (independent of manufacturer name).Then peoples look these and make they opinions.Just week ago one people come visit to my lab and also he have heard and read these some opinions... after 30min lesson and exercise he was amazed about price/features/performance.Yes I can do very easy this trick to show that "ooohh... this is veeeery slowww" - I need only set some trigger settings and select horizontal speed and insert signal just for show how terrible slow it is..." and also it is very easy to make some other bad opinions.Most good choice is that before buying, go and visit place where can really use equipment(s) in real life before purchase.I have not meet yet any case where people have visited my workshop if he have designed to buy Owon or Siglent. After 15 minutes to 3 hours use and test no one have turned his mind. Nearly always result have been just opposite: better than expected.But of course, I'm professional and I can also tell something how to use equipment right and what are limits and what need to know. (but it also need say that most of peoples have been well educated/experienced in electronics aqnd they easy understand limits and what can do and what not - and why)

author: BeerCannon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:15:09 pm
content: rf-loop,I will find the URLs for the videos and post them.. I've been combing the web for months looking at these scopes now, so I'll have to search for them again. I will also post URLs for some Rigol DS1052e/DS1102E videos which made it clear just how sluggish the response of the Siglent seems in comparison. If the Siglent CAN be more responsive (using different timebases, sampling rates, etc.) I have yet to see a video posted online that makes it appear so (when someone adjusts the scope's timebase, etc.)Also, many times the people making videos are looking at fixed or captured square wave signals on the scopes, and you can't get any sense of how quickly the screen can redraw or how quickly the scope seems to react to the controls, or changes in the probed signal, from such usage. It would be nice to see a definitive review of the SDS1102CML (not the one we've all seen on ToolBoom).rf-loop, I know you've had revised firmware for these scopes for months, but Siglent still hasn't made them available on their site. I'm sure there are good reasons, but they could just release it and say it's only for the models they've tested.As for having the luxury of walking into a place and testing these scopes side-by-side, that's impossible for me as far as I can tell, and I'd guess for most others in my country. There are only a handful of authorized Rigol sellers here in the USA: Rigol NA near Dayton, Ohio (about a 6-hour drive for me), Saelig near Rochester, NY (about a 7-hour drive for me), Tequipment in Long Branch, NJ (about an 8-hour drive for me), Electronix Express in Rahway, NJ (another 8-hour drive), and maybe a few more. I would LOVE to walk into a place and try each of these with my own hands, so if anyone can direct me to someplace within perhaps 2 hours driving time (about 200km) from Pittsburgh, PA then I'll gladly go and do it. However, I doubt that some of the places that I mentioned have a showroom, even if I took the time to make a 16-hour round-trip to visit.So, it's easy to say "try them all", but as far as I can tell, it's very hard to actually find a place to do so here in the USA. And I'm relatively close (by US standards) to the places mentioned.. where would someone a few thousand miles further west go to try them? All of the Rigol resellers that I've found are generally in the northeastern states of the USA.I can't even find information on Siglent's site to tell me where I can buy their products... not just in the USA but anywhere in the world! I happen to know that Saelig sells Siglent because I've spoken to them on the phone. Tequipment doesn't carry them, nor do Electronix Express (or Rigol NA, obviously). So again, I have no idea where I could walk in and try one before I make a purchase decision, thus the reliance on whatever we can glean from the internet. I've also asked some pre-sales questions on Siglent's web site, in their customer "VIP" area, over a month ago, and never received a response. That makes me less inclined to purchase from them as well.. I feel that if they can't be bothered to answer questions from a potential buyer, they certainly won't care about me after they've got my money.

author: BeerCannon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 10:27:18 pm
content: Here are a few so far, admittedly, they're not all SDS1102CML videos, some are SDS1102CNL and some are 1072CML, but from what I've read these are essentially the same architecture with less memory (CNL) or less front-end bandwidth (1072CML). Also, I've previewed this post, and it embeds (or inlines) some of these but not others.. can't figure out how to turn that off entirely so that you just see links.. I used the 'insert hyperlink' option for each one..I apologize that none of these videos tell us what version of the firmware these scopes are utilizing. I offer these for anyone to draw their own conclusions, if that's even possible with so little data.look at 6:11, 10:10, and 10:38 for examples of the lag after the user makes adjustments.look around 0:30.. the horizontal scrolling isn't too bad, but when the time base changes, it's notably slower to update the display.(the 1072CML) around 0:17 timebase change. You have to watch the person's fingers turning the knob while also watching the display update.(CNL model) controls around 7:27 and interesting side-by-side comparison to analog scope at 12:00 (I know, any DSO will be notably slower than the analog).(CNL model) screen update seems decent enough in this short video.probably the most interesting SDS1102CML video I've seen yet (turn your sound down unless you're deaf in most upper frequencies!)Even though Rigol DS1000E series videos are plentiful and easily located, here are a few to compare:about 1:45 you can see the hand turning the knob versus display update.setting trigger and then some adjustments around 1:40 in this video. (And the overall apparent responsiveness of the display to the incoming signal changes.)