The Most Profitable Micro Hydro-power Plant, is it true? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 05:15:33 am
content: So, I am very interested in this but the question is does thing work? Can it produce 100KW?

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 05:35:01 am
content: Careful, watch the first second. The turbine was spinning before the water first came into contact with it.I know some would say they pre-spun the turbine with 0 load so it would look nice for the video, but, I say, if you cannot be honest and truly see the water begin to spin it up, or even, at a minimum of 15kw, even in that daylight, you could have shown 15kw of incandescent spot lamps tied directly to the generator come up in brightness beating out the sun.You would have to show me actual proven functionality + real measured data with efficiencies at all scales of wattage and water-flow to prove to me that this isn't nothing more than a mock-up of an unproven tech.I am not saying you can't get power out of this, I'm just saying forget getting 100kw, even 15kw. Looking at size and flow & knowing the difficulty of pedaling on my generator bike, I would say that generator size with that tiny blade in the middle would give you at least 2Kw (around 3hp) , maybe as much as 5kw peak (around 7hp). Not 15kw (around 20hp) for what is shown there...NOW, watch really carefully and you will see that the turbine blade is actually running faster than the water flow and is slightly pushing/accelerating the water around it as the water goes down. Please explain how a generator would be accelerating the water flow by pushing against the water instead of the water pushing the generator turbine which should be spinning slightly slower than the water.If you cant be honest within your video, something fishy is up...One last sad thing, there does look like there is enough water flow to make a good 15kw, if you captured almost completely all that kinetic energy, with such a tiny turbine for such a slow flow, I just don't buy it. If the turbine blade was vertically much higher, or, had the full diameter of that concrete structure and was shaped differently to capture all the moving flow without any resistance of the shrinking cone in the center to a tiny propeller blade, I would give it a little more credit.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 06:25:26 am
content: They make realistic claims when you check the details:H = 1.7 mQ = 1600 l/sP = 15 kWSo around 50-60% efficiency which is believable, agricultural water wheels can generate electricity at a similar efficiencies.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 06:35:02 am
content: Quote from: Someone on February 07, 2018, 06:25:26 amLike I said in my post, I agree 15kw can be achieved with a better propeller design. I didn't argue about the water flow itself, I argued on their design's ability to capture that flow efficiently. I still must ask, why did they cheat in the video. And I know, a well designed water wheel will capture almost all of the power of the flow of water, minus the bearing friction minus the efficiency of a rare-earth brushless 3 phase PMA generator.Note that during the last 9 seconds of the video where they do a closeup, it is clear then that the water is pushing the generator unlike at the beginning 30 seconds, it is the other way around.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 06:53:52 am
content: Over here, they say they are successful at 50% efficient delivering a true useful 15kw only with the unit you see. Not 100kw. Remember, at 240v, the current coming out of that generator should be over 60Amps. Look at the wiring coming out of that generator, do you think that tiny tube has at least 2 conductors driving 60Amps? Ok, they have 1 black wire outside which is thick + another most likely inside the steel tube. Hmm, is this even a safe setup for 15Kw? Give them some time, if they get good sales from those demanding quality, safety & longevity, this should really improve. If their sales end up to those who just need bare functionality, I expect the quality to get a little better as the unit shown is their first prototype. (Go to youtube page, specs are written in the comments...)

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 08:01:29 am
content: Is this a new turbine design or something that already existed? Do they teach these in books? I didn't know this existed. I have know of other designs like Francis, pelton etc.

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 08:05:25 am
content: Also they say they used the speed of the votex to spin the turbine not the flow of the water. I would like to know more about it, if there are books or papers on this thing or anybody has studied this before, please let me know. Because these doesn't seem to have much civil engineering cost so, We could really use one of these.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 08:37:09 am
content: Google 'water turbine impeller design'. There are different types for different situations, including those designed for the vortex action of the shown design, except, those don't match the impeller shape we see in the video.https://www.google.ca/search?q=water+turbine+impeller+design&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwio96zVspPZAhVERK0KHR5BCUoQsAQIKA&biw=1260&bih=709Also search:https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/gravitational-vortex-power-plant-is-safe-for-fish.htmlThe closeup photo of the red impeller blade in this vortex generator is shaped right for the job.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 08:41:18 am
content: Just curious if that design needs a minimum maintenance ? As the water is sort of sieved thru the narrow concrete gap.Sort of things like these ?

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 09:12:17 am
content: If you want to build one of these, you should look for Low RPM brushless 3 phase neodymium permanent magnet generators for wind turbine. Low RPM means direct drive. The wind turbine generators are already fairly weather resistant if not completely waterproof for the really good ones and they have a low startup torque with no cogging. Go for higher voltage models as they allow for longer cables with less loss than the 24v/48v models.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 09:48:56 am
content: You'll need some hybrid battery inverter concept to go with it anyway. It doesn't feel obviously impossible.

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 11:26:18 am
content: The person Franz Zotlöterer seems to have a patent on it? How does such a patent work? Does it apply to a certain turbine design or anything that uses vortex to generate energy?

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 03:27:25 pm
content: To get any useful power out of hydro, you need either head (fall distance) or flow velocity. A turbine working with near zero head and a slow (volumetric) flow will do nothing useful. The same old principle of conservation of energy applies; vortex gizmo or no, you can't get more energy out than the sum of the kinetic and potential energy in the water in the first place.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 04:38:35 pm
content: You may think it is your water but in some locations the permitting for one can be horrendous.

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 04:53:43 pm
content: Fish blender?