Starting a new beginner lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 03:12:07 pm
content: Hi, all.I've been working at a job where profit-sharing is the norm, and will occur mid-December. I've been wanting to get started on a semi-capable electronics lab for a long, long while, now. After my wife takes her cut, I'm going to have about USD$2,000 to get a very basic electronics lab going.What I already have:Tek 7633 (100MHz 4 channel analog scope.)2 handheld Multimeters; 1 Extech, 1 Fluke. The Fluke doesn't have an amp or milliamp range, only microamp.HP 6201B power supply (0-20V, 0-1.5A) that doesn't max out, and I'm not sure if it's supposed to. (Can't get full rated current at full rated voltage.)Breadboard, some jumpers, and a small quantity of basic through hole parts acquired from clearance sales at Radio Shack.Almost no component storage.What I think I might need:More capable power supplies. Not sure if a DP832 (Assume a Rev 3 board) would do here, or if 3 of those Korad 30V 5A would work as well. I assume those Korads have floating outputs, but I'm not sure.Digital Scope. REALLY want an Agilent DSOX2002, then upgrade it at tax-time, but that would probably eat too much current budget, I think. Looking at a Rigol DS1104Z-S instead. Not sure if the DS2072As that are available now are hackable. I'm not going to get a DS1102 or DS1052.Soldering iron. Nope, don't have one. Looking at the FX-888D. I really want the non-digital version, but I'm not sure if it will be available at all by the time I place an order.Lots more components and component storage, of course.I'm going to be doing analog and digital stuff, but mostly digital to start, as I'm a programmer by trade and training and digital is more familiar to me.Known projects on the horizon:My daughter has ADHD and having a rigid schedule helps her a great deal. I want to build a semi-large LED signboard so she can see what she should be doing now, how much time she has left, and what's next. Will double as a family calendar with upcoming birthdays and the like.7-segment GPS disciplined clocks. I'm dead tired of all my clocks drifting at different rates and not being correct.I have an arcade hobby on the side. Tube-based monitors look best (by far) on arcade machines, but there are no chassis available used or new where all the parts on the PCB are still available. I want to design and build an arcade CRT chassis where all the parts are available today. I'll probably post a lot about this project once I get it going.Possibly, power supplies for the above.Lots of other things I can't seem to remember right now.What do you folks think I should start with? Soldering iron is pretty much a given, but which one? Also, is there any software that I will need at all?Thanks for any and all opinions.

author: makerimages
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 04:03:47 pm
content: Cadsoft Eagle might helphttp://www.cadsoftusa.com/download-eagle/?language=enGet an arduino. For the Arcade, I might just say you use the Z80 CPU if you want authenticity, that`s what most old consoles are based on and it is still being manufactred today by Zilog.http://www.arduino.cc/http://www.zilog.com/

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 04:12:38 pm
content: I'm not talking about the arcade games themselves, I'm talking about the electronics that control the monitor. The arcade monitor chassis.

author: Quick5pnt0
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 08:52:14 pm
content: Being a beginner electronics hobbyist I don't have much to add but I can recommend the Hakko 888D. I picked one up earlier this year on ebay for about $80 US and it is the best soldering iron I've ever owned. At first I wasn't sure if the digital interface would be a pain to use but switching temps is pretty straight forward and becomes second nature in no time. Besides, I don't know what it is but I just love watching the temp rise and fall on the display after you reset it.

author: mianchen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 09:32:51 pm
content: As a forever beginner myself, I can see you need a proper "electronic" DMM, a soldering iron, some hand tools, breadboard or prototype boards some basic components, wires (test leads, hook up wires etc) .... Other fancy equipment can be bought when necessary. You don't have to blown $2000 straight away do you?

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 09:45:19 pm
content: makerimagesAs a small aside I still have a 'Zilog Z80-CPU Programming Reference Card' from when I ordered a Z80 microprocessor in 1974. Since it was the IC I used to homebrew my first real computer I couldn't bear to part with it when everything else had to go.Memories are made of this

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:19:05 pm
content: Quote from: mianchen on November 03, 2013, 09:32:51 pmI don't have to, no, and I probably won't. I do need a digital scope, logic analyzer, and soldering iron pretty quickly, though, if I'm to progress much. I'm going to wind up spending a lot more on little bits like hookup wires and components than I plan to spend; I feel that's a very safe prediction. Fortunately, an electronics project just came up at work (no one else knows how to do it and I'm lowest man on the totem pole) so I might be able to expense some of the less costly items which are directly related to the project. So, that's nice. We got a 3D printer to demo to upper management and now it sits at my desk, so I have an enclosure generator now, too. I'm pretty fortunate in this position.

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:35:44 pm
content: I would skip the DSO for now and just buy a reasonable hobbyist logic analyzer, maybe Saleae or similar. Also a $50 chinese hot air rework station for the occasional SMD repair. You would also need a programmer /w JTAG interface like the AVRdragon or Microchip PICIT. I would also consider the STM32F4Discovery board. You know, ARM cortex M4 /w floating point unit dev board for just $15 is pretty nice!I know the DSO is a temptation but for now you have absolutely no need for it.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:54:27 pm
content: Good to be thinking about the supplies/small odds-n-ends IMHO.But how are you set for hand tools?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:14:39 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 03, 2013, 11:54:27 pmI have various screwdrivers and nut drivers and the like. I could use a proper set of engineering screwdrivers, I suppose, but I have everything I have needed so far, except some very tiny little torx bits I discovered today on a broken 1st generation B&N Nook e-reader.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:51:48 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on November 04, 2013, 12:14:39 amWiha offers a lot of precision screwdrivers (individual drivers or handles that take bits). Couple of good cutters & pliers would be good to have if you don't already, maybe a couple of hemostats, dental picks, and tweezers as well (i.e. #5 & #7 styles are really handy IMHO).Good supplies can add up pretty quick too, such as a good roll of solder, flux, and desolder wick hitting ~$50 - 60. Add in parts and any tools, it can add up pretty quick, even with excellent bargain hunting skills.Not sure what you need, but this stuff could eat $100 without much effort (or going crazy with expensive brands).For a PSU (or other gear), I'm a fan of used as I prefer quality on the cheap if possible.Can also allow for multiples, which is handy if you need more than one voltage supply for a project. Not sure about Korad, but there is a thread or two on that particular model.As per a soldering iron, the analog version of the Hakko will be harder to find now. The Weller WES51 is still available, and uses a knob. But if you wanted a bit more than what either of these can do, you might want to take a look at theHakko FX-951. All digital, but it offers features neither the WES51 or FX-888 (either version) do, such as setback temp when the iron is placed in the stand (helps immensely with tip life).Just not quite sure what you need or are after to be more specific.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 01:29:03 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 04, 2013, 12:51:48 amNo worries. Part of knowing what you're doing is knowing what questions to ask, and I don't quite know what I'm doing, yet.Quote from: kxenos on November 03, 2013, 11:35:44 pmI've not heard of that STM32 board. I will definitely look it up. The Saleae is definitely on my list. I'm about to start a project controlling a pile of 5x7 LED matrices over I2C, so I imagine this logic analyzer will come in very handy.Quote from: kxenos on November 03, 2013, 11:35:44 pmWell, having a digital scope with the ability to capture runt pulses would help a lot when repairing arcade monitors. It isn't necessary at all, usually; given a make & model you can know what's wrong entirely from symptoms, but if it's a symptom you've not encountered before, a digital scope would help a great deal. I use my analog scope a lot when probing old analog stuff like this, and it's amazing what you can discern if your eyes are fast enough to catch transitions. I have a somewhat rare ability to vibrate my eyes side to side quickly enough to determine if an LED is PWM driven or not, which also helps me see a lot of nuances when looking at an analog scope, but having a digital scope with a precise set of trigger conditions would be most excellent. My eyes aren't what they used to be, either.So, in short, you're 100% correct; I don't need it, but it would help, and I'm probably going to get one anyway, just so I can go further poking around inside analog stuff.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 01:51:55 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on November 04, 2013, 01:29:03 amNone at all.Just hoping to get a better idea (for direction) as the discussion goes on.Quote from: Rigby on November 04, 2013, 01:29:03 amWhat exactly do you need/want in a DSO?Since you have an analog model, it might be worth saving up for a DSO that offers more than just the basics (i.e. more than just screen capture as an improvement over an analog). Such as getting the Agilent X2000 vs. a Rigol 1052E (or whatever model would really get you what you want; Rigol has some more advanced models that are quite attractive). If you need extras such as decode options, ... types of things for example, a different/next model up may be more cost effective due to what's included as standard features for future projects (expanded from current capabilities or what the least expensive DSO could handle).Given so many options, one thing or another could make a notable dent in your budget. So getting a better idea of what's the highest priority/need could help with that. For example, put the money into the tools you use most, and go with less expensive alternatives as you move down the list as they won't get as much use might be the best way to go (less frustration on a daily basis).

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 03:16:13 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 04, 2013, 12:51:48 amstill 15 lefthttp://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/hakko-fx-888-esd-safe-soldering-station-w-65-watt-soldering-iron-tip/p/476-185

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on November 03, 2013, 03:12:07 pmSince you asked for an advice ;-)1. $2000 is way too high for a 'basic' hobbyist lab.2. Some of the projects you mentioned (e.g. that time tracking device for your daughter, GPS clock) I would implement in software using a cheap tablet.3. As for DSO, I would definitely get one, e.g. a cheap Rigol, and sell the analog scope you have.4. It does not matter what tools you have, it matters what you do with them.5. Don't forget to save for retirement.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:43:43 am
content: My advice would be to only buy something expensive, like an instrument, once you are certain you actually do and will continue to need it. I find it is way too easy to spend big on new equipment, which you may actually not need that much. Only to later realize you don't have any saving left over for that crucial instrument you suddenly realized youdoneed.There are of course some fundamental tools, like a good soldering iron, which are a given. However, as a beginner you may not yet know exactly where your interests may take you in the near future.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 06:20:13 am
content: Repairs on the arcade machines, is that correct? Are you planning on selling refurbished machines?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:47:15 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on November 04, 2013, 06:20:13 amNo, these are for me and my family.Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 amI don't know... the consumables add up quick, and I make a lot of mistakes. I don't plan on spending it all at once, either.Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 amI know software and I know tablets. I'm not interested in doing things I already know how to do. GPS module + Arduino + MAX7219 + 4-digit 7-segment LED display. After I get those done and everyone is happy, I'll use WWV and a homebrew receiver to do the same.Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 amI'm keeping the Tek7633, even if I don't use it, it's a thing of beauty. I'm still thinking quite hard on the Agilent scope line, and yes, the Rigols as well.Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 amAgreed.Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 amNot to worry. 401(k) and savings come out before my wife or I get our shares.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:49:06 pm
content: Quote from: staxquad on November 04, 2013, 03:16:13 amOrdered one yesterday from Amazon. It'll be here Tuesday.

author: Noize
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 06:22:02 pm
content: Yes you need the soldering iron and other bits and bobs to build stuff. And maybe a logic Analyzer especially since you are a programmer(saelae have a SDK to write your own protcocols etc...). Get a 16 channel one if you do. I got 8 channel and 16 would be more adequate. The shear <-(if I spelt that wrong in context would like the correct spelling thankyou) fact that you are asking this question means: You've got the soldering iron-yep essential. Just put the money in the bank. Just buy something "WHEN YOU NEED IT". Buy some good books. PCB fabrication(hobbiest scale if you want to do it DIY or get the Charlie Chan companies to do it).Don't be hasty!

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 06:41:05 pm
content: Quote from: Noize on November 04, 2013, 06:22:02 pmSheer. (Scroll down to the "adjective" section.)Shear(scroll to "noun" section) is not what you were looking for.I linked them for your convenience, not as an insult.

author: Noize
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 06:44:30 pm
content: Thanks that was what I asked for. O0 I knew it was wrong spelling wise.

author: MrAureliusR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 10:15:45 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2013, 05:14:23 amNo offense but that is the WORST advice I've ever seen. You should never advise anyone to sell their analog scope. I wish I had one! I'm glad to see the OP is ignoring this bad piece of advice.

author: Maturola
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 02:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: MrAureliusR on November 05, 2013, 10:15:45 am+1 to this, Hold that Analog Scope close to your heart =) (ok maybe not that close, but keep it).I'll join the mass telling the OP to wait until you actually "need" something before you expend the money, your budget is pretty good for a "Beginner" lab and what you have to start up is pretty cool. Look and read some reviews on the solder station and get one of those and then start working on your projects and order equipment as you need itAlso hanging around here and the "test Equipment" section of this forums doesn't really help to stay away from buying cool stuff =)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 02:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: MrAureliusR on November 05, 2013, 10:15:45 amWhat is the main reason, for their usefulness or as collector items?I used analog scopes professionally for few years, including ones with memory memory, but since I started to use DSOs am not looking back.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 03:51:41 pm
content: I'm with everyone in the "take your time" camp. I won't be going bananas, spending it all in a day. I'm plenty stupid, but I'm not that stupid.I guess what I'm after is more of a "given that budget, and those projects, a good DSO would be _____" as an example.Truthfully, most of the projects I have on the plate are digital, and will require as much software development as hardware development, but as I gain confidence, I'm going to start tackling the arcade monitor chassis project, and that's got to be 100% analog.Quote from: zapta on November 05, 2013, 02:55:57 pmGood question. I've no idea, but there's gotta be something. Doesn't matter, though; I like the look of it and I'm keeping it, even though there are better models available with more features for less money.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 06:02:21 pm
content: Here are some advantages of certain analog scopes over certain DSOs that I have read:Price if you only need a limited set of featuresBetter to learn the basics on firstEasier to use for basic functionsHandle high voltage input overloadsBetter display fidelity, displays superior zoomed in baseline view of a waveformLess prone to distortion and noiseUseful for showing crossover distortion in audio workEasier to repair/schematicsThe exact same could be said for certain DSOs depending on your experience.On DSOs you can get features like storage, on screen display, filtering and math functions that are missing from your average analog scope.The difference is becoming less contentious as DSOs are improving and becoming more affordable.I personally think it's a good idea to have a dual channel analog scope as well as a DSO if you have the need.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 10:10:04 pm
content: Additional advantages of analog scope, all of which are subject to personal opinion and preferences:*) Some high quality analog scopes have additional functionality, which may be useful for some people. For instance my own primary scope has an 8 (eight) digit hardware frequency counter/timer, complete with the option of using an external, high stability timebase. So my scope doubles as my frequency counter.Other interesting 'features' are potentially a high bandwidth for relatively low cost (if you can maintain a scope of suitable complexity).*) Scopes like the Tek 7000 series are modular through the use of plug-ins, so you can build custom measurement setups, based on needs and preferences. Some of the possible options are unmatched even today by any modern DSO that I know of. That is, unless you intend to add additional, external hardware. Very low level uV/div is one option, which some people need.*) No DSO I have seen, can match the quality of a good analog scope's X-Y mode. I use this when building custom test setups, like when sweeping LC filters. X-Y mode looks ugly on most inexpensive DSOs IMO. Check forum contributor GK's threads on his analog computer project for more examples of using an analog scope's beautiful X-Y mode to good effect.*) Z-axis blanking and modulation. Having a Z-axis modulation bandwidth of over 10 MHz, which some analog scopes have, allows you to watch (analog) video on the scope in X-Y mode. Z-axis blanking also comes in handy if you like to build your own less-than-trivial test setups, consisting of several instruments wired up together.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 10:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on November 05, 2013, 06:02:21 pmA couple more:Absolutely no aliasing effects, ever.No "blind time" in XY mode.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2013, 09:52:01 pm
content: I see that analog scopes are still live and kicking.Do people here still buy new analog scopes or are they mostly used second hand ebay style?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2013, 09:59:49 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 06, 2013, 09:52:01 pmPrimarily, if not exclusively, 2nd hand. Not sure if anyone is still building analog scopes these days.

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2013, 10:35:34 pm
content: A quick search on RS turned up withMetrix, ISO-TECH and Hameg.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2013, 10:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 06, 2013, 09:52:01 pmHameg still makes one:http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hameg/oscilloscopes/hm400.htm

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 02:26:04 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 06, 2013, 09:59:49 pmOk, so it is a Disappearing World thing then, like tubes, vinyls, nixies, dot matrix printers and manual transmissions.I understand the need though, I am still driving manual transmission

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 08:13:12 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on November 06, 2013, 10:53:07 pm"Z-Input (Intens. modulation): max. + 5V (TTL),10kHz"

author: xolott
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 06:56:09 pm
content: Hi, I think that a good multimeter is a nice initial point to make your Electronic Lab. I have a 80's Fluke and still kick some "new" unit here in Venezuela.A Rigol DSO is a very nice product for the price! I have intention to buy one near in the future.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 09:52:10 pm
content: Checkout Voltcraft VC630-2 and 610/1, 2 and 1 channel respectively.www.rapidonline.com. For relatively cheap new ones.I float my boat with Dave J and many others, analogue scopes are an excellent addition to a workshop.For fundamental experimentation and understanding you can't beat them

author: moepower
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 11:51:58 pm
content: I got my old 20 MHz goldstar OS-7020A from asking the technical officer for the electrical eng labs at my old university. They were more than happy to donate one to me. They've all converted to digital oscilloscopes and have tons of these old ones in a warehouse.So if you got those kind of connections, make use of them.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2013, 01:39:18 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on November 06, 2013, 10:53:07 pmThere are still some for sale, but Hameg announced that they were stopping production of analogue scopes last year:http://blog.hameg.com/?p=84Quote from: zapta on November 07, 2013, 02:26:04 amIt's only Americans who are abandoning manual transmissions; 75% of European cars have a manual gearbox.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2013, 01:56:32 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 08, 2013, 01:39:18 amApparently the good people a at Posrche, Audi Ferrari and Lamborghini did not hear about it ;-)http://www.caradvice.com.au/127796/lamborghini-confirms-the-death-of-the-manual-supercar/http://www.carscoops.com/2012/02/2013-porsche-911-gt3-to-ditch-manual.htmlhttp://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-Phasing-Out-Manual-Transmissions-In-Europe-In-Favor-Of-DSG-67666/http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Car-Magazines-Blogs/Tim-Pollard-Blog2/Ferrari-click-clack-manual-transmissions-RIP/BTW, modern automatic transmission are faster and and more gas efficient than manual.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2013, 02:42:44 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 08, 2013, 01:56:32 amYour examples are not conventional automatics, but automated manual gearboxes like the Audi DSG. And they are mostly in supercars because they are still expensive.No doubt eventually the prices will come down and they will be more widely adopted, but until then Europeans prefer more control over their cars.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2013, 01:49:41 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 08, 2013, 01:56:32 amOh yeah, because everyone here drives a Porsche, Audi, Ferrari or Lamborghini.Of course you are going to have an automatic dual-clutch gearbox in a high performance car, it's the fastest and most efficient way to shift between gears.Here's a kicker: In Slovenia, if you want to acquire a driving license, you need to do it in a manual transmission car. Well, you can do it in an automatic, but then you get a limited license which only allows you to drive automatics. In other words, if you can't drive a manual, you are considered incompetent.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2013, 02:08:24 am
content: It's because of emissions standards here in California. They have screwed up the throttle responce here so the emissions systems can keep up and it makes things like rev matching and heel toe all messed up making driving a manual not pleasurable, and as goes California so falls in the rest of the country.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2013, 10:20:40 pm
content: Hey Zapta, I'm with you, I refuse to abandon my manual transmission. 2001 Chevy Cavalier with 187,000 miles or 300,947 kilometers and still has the original clutch and the transmission was last serviced with an issue at 14,000 miles. A manual transmission makes a subcompact car with a 2.2 liter engine a lot more fun to drive. I have owned manual transmission cars for years and if I have to keep buying used cars to keep driving a stick, I will.Tom, NW0LF

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:45:52 pm
content: I got a 2013 Hyundai Elantra on Nov 16 last year and it's a traditional manual transmission. It's fun to drive, and it was inexpensive. Put 45k miles on the thing so far, all at about 41mpg according to the app on my phone.They're not going away, you just have to wait for one to show up on the lot or order one.

author: tehmeme
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 11:24:04 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on November 09, 2013, 01:49:41 amit's the same in the UK.

author: MrAureliusR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 11:49:58 pm
content: Guys, I'm not a moderator, but these posts are getting very off-topic. Might I suggest you start a new thread in the General forum? Or copy these posts into a new thread? Maybe a mod can help.Not that it's a big deal but this thread is supposed to be about starting a new beginner lab.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 01:10:34 am
content: Keep the analog scope. I have a Hantek DSO5102B (second hand) and 2 analogs, a Tek 2235 and a BK Precision 5100, both 100 MHz and obviously second hand. I do plan to sell them both at some point only because I want a 4 channel scope. Knowing me, I will save up and buy the 4 channel and end up keeping one of the 2 channel analogs if for nothing else, because the granddaughter that lives with us loves to look at and help make the magic (Lissajous patterns). Take you time and research your purchases. I rushed a couple purchases that even though they weren't much money, the money could have been saved toward something more useful.Tom, NW0LF

author: Maturola
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 01:17:38 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on November 12, 2013, 01:10:34 amHow do you like that Hantek DSO5102B? I've read some of the reviews and comment from here and other forums but would love to heard your opinion since you have the tek 2235 as well

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 01:43:52 am
content: I would also recommend not forgetting some basic things such as:Flush cuttersFine needle nose pliersFlux penprobesmagnifier head piece with lightpcb holderSolder holderESD matlights for the work areaetc..

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 02:32:30 am
content: Maturola, I am new to getting back to basic electronics and relearning oscilloscopes so I don't yet have too much to say on it. I like the size and portability. I am still learning the functions and it is getting easier to work through the menus. The biggest plus for me is the LCD screen. I have to turn the intensity on the analog scopes way down so they don't bother my eyes. Overall, I am happy with my purchase. I guess I will like it more as I learn it more.Tom, NW0LF

author: makerimages
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 12:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: Dave Turner on November 03, 2013, 09:45:19 pm:O? mind digitalizing it? Please?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 01:01:13 pm
content: http://www.ballyalley.com/ml/z80_docs/Z80%20CPU%20Instant%20Reference%20Card%20%28Grayscale%29.pdf

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 02:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on March 02, 2014, 01:01:13 pmInteresting. I still have fully functional programmable calculator that runs on Z80 compatible cpu... I think im going to give that char some try

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 03:05:32 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on November 05, 2013, 03:51:41 pmAs an arcade enthusiast - one feature of analog scopes you could use is the X/Y mode controlled with an arduino so you can use it to play all the old Atari vector games like Asteroids, Battlezone, Tempest, etc. That would be really cool.Besides, things like persistence and intensity for catching glitches are free. Ok I know the more expensive DSOs are coming out which can emulate persistence, but meh.It's nice to have two scopes anyway. Sometimes you just need more channels.Also why sell it when you really won't get much for it anyway?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 03:49:56 pm
content: I have three analog scopes now, and a digital. They're all excellent, though two are very similar and are pretty much redundant.The one I had when I wrote the above post is a Tek 7633, which I still have and am probably never getting rid of. It's not seen much use. I also have a Tek 7623 which is very similar, but it has seen a great deal of use and is not in such great shape. Those are both 100MHz mainframes, but the plugins are all over the place. Third is a very light, very portable Panasonic VP-5610P 3-channel 100MHz scope. Fourth is a Rigol D1104Z-S.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 06:02:39 pm
content: makerimagesThe 6 PDF files are approx 23Mb. This is over the attachment limit. If you post your email I'll send them direct.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 10:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: Dave Turner on March 02, 2014, 06:02:39 pmScribd is your friendhttp://www.scribd.com/upload-document

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 10:35:20 pm
content: As seen above Rigby has offered to host the files which have been forwarded to him tonight.The original is 700x215mm, comprising of 8 double sided 87.5x215mm pages.Please note that they have been scanned as well as my equipment is able to achieve considering that I had covered the 40 year thin old cardboard original in a transparent self adhesive film many years ago, to preserve the 'hinges', which is somewhat reflective. Note there is some overlap in the scanning..If there is anything unreadable let me know and I will try to clarify.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 11:32:13 pm
content: https://s3.amazonaws.com/RigbyElectronics/Z80-1.pdfhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/RigbyElectronics/Z80-2.pdfhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/RigbyElectronics/Z80-3.pdfhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/RigbyElectronics/Z80-4.pdfhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/RigbyElectronics/Z80-5.pdfhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/RigbyElectronics/Z80-6.pdf

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 12:32:33 am
content: Forget the Rigol power supply and get (2) HP 6114A and (2) HP 6115A power supplies for the same money. Don't worry about the prices you see it is doable with patience. They can be used together up to 280V and can do any kind of tracking series/parallel known to man.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 12:46:43 am
content: I wound up getting 2 HP 6286As, an HP 6114A, an HP 6201B and I did get the Rigol DP832.The 6282As get the most use by far. They are not precision supplies, one of them doesn't even regulate properly, but I don't care. 0-20V @ 0-10A covers virtually everything for me, and they're small enough that I can move them around easily.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 01:33:34 am
content: Earlier in the thread, someone suggested handtools.If you have some money, blow a little on some quality pliers. There's another thread that covers people's favorites, but vendors like Lindstrom, Schmitz or, at the lower end, Excelta are good. I've been using noname low end pliers for years, but recently sprung $30 for a pair of Exceltas and I can't believe the difference. Now I'm looking at getting a pair of Lindstroms.Ditto on the HP power supply. I have an older 6236b triple output supply. I had to replace a couple of output caps, but the +/- rails track within a couple of milivolts. I have a couple of others, but I use the HP the most.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 01:50:06 am
content: That's a good rule for most tools. My rule is:Quote from: self