It's 2020.  SF to LA for $25 on Elon Musk's Hyperloop - Are you buying it?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 10:59:42 pm
content: We talk about EVs, and solar power what about Elon's solar panel powered Hyperloop? We were told it would cost just $25 and take 30 mins to travel from SF to LA in 2020. Anyone buying tickets?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 11:20:24 pm
content: I thought he already decided to change it from "hyperloop" to a car in a small tunnel. Also if the current high speed rail is any indication nobody will be building anything from SF to LA in the next couple decades unless tickets are more than an airplane.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 11:32:51 pm
content: Did you watch the video?In a 2017 newscast interview Hyperloop would be operational in 2020.But who is the bigger scammers? Elon Musk or Elizabeth Homes?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 11:53:49 pm
content: No, I didn't. I don't have time right now to watch the video, maybe ever. As for scamming it all depends on the future. Currently I'd say probably Musk because he's taken my money too(right now he's much more a liar than a scammer). We know how everything holmes did turned out though so it's probably easier to justify her.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:01:54 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on August 06, 2020, 11:53:49 pmTook your money for what?

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:02:51 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on August 06, 2020, 11:53:49 pmIDK When you have time watch the video and let me know what you think.https://youtu.be/2h6Cz4hwuEI

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:06:35 am
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 12:01:54 amMusk like Holmes took millions of dollars from investors. Holmes knew she had a machine that didn't work. Musk who knows the science has to know Hyperloop would never work, yet accepted money from investors.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:09:23 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 12:06:35 amHow about getting your facts right? Musk did not take a dime for hyperloop from anyone since he does not build it to begin with.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:29:57 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 06, 2020, 11:32:51 pmNo no no, i am first in the line for my tourist ticket to Mars "by 2018" !

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:36:52 am
content: Quote from: Bud on August 07, 2020, 12:29:57 amYou both are in line to be bullshit spreaders. Claim from Hyperloop One has nothing to do with Musk since he does not have anything to do with that company. But your claim about Mars tourism you simply pulled out of your ass some time ago and newer bothered to provide the source when asked.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:58:06 am
content: I do not keep track of all of bullsit that came out of that moron.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:00:22 am
content: Quote from: Bud on August 07, 2020, 12:58:06 amYou simply do not keep track of your own BS said. Is it that hard to admit you made that up?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:18:04 am
content: As money gets tighter there is more and more scamming going on, it comes in cycles.Hold on to your money tight!Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 12:06:35 am

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:59:42 am
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 12:36:52 amWhy can't people just come out and say that they hate Elon Musk for no other reason than they just hate him.All this subterfuge seems like a lot of extra effort.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 02:16:05 am
content: He is filling a need that countries have for optimism, when many peoples lives are actually crap.To paraphrase Deelite.. people want to believe in the power of hype.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 03:25:40 am
content: What about Elizabeth Holmes? Who spreads more BS. Elon or Elizabeth?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:12:08 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 03:25:40 amYou.It's a quite strange comparison. Elon might be not on schedule for some things and often is eccentric but he delivers. For example American astronauts to space (for less money and ahead of Boeing), commercial and government satellites (again much cheaper than ULA), cars and whatnot. Elizabeth Holmes never created anything working, all smoke and mirrors.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:35:53 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 12:06:35 amMusk doesnotown nor operate nor have any vested interest in any Hyperloop company!I actually do not rule out that the whole thing on his part is a gigantic troll.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 06:01:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 07, 2020, 04:35:53 amWhat about his own Hyperloop compnay?If I provide you with some "credible" information which contradicts your statement could I change your mind?Elon Musk is building his own HyperloopThe billionaire will go into competition with the startups he inspired with his white paper.Elon Musk may have dreamt up the Hyperloop, but the bulk of its development has been carried out by others. When he unveiled the white paper in 2013, the South African billionaire said that his vision was "open sourced," and it would be for other startups to build it out. Now, however, sources close to Musk say that he will now build his own Hyperloop, starting with the New York to Washington D.C. route.The news was confirmed in a statement sent to Bloomberg via Musk's Boring Company, which said that it wants to "accelerate the development of this technology as fast as possible." That may pose an existential threat to the number of startups that have begun working on their Hyperloop designs. Businesses such as Hyperloop One, Hyperloop Transportation Technologies, Arrivo and TransPod have new competition.Musk tweeted that he had received informal approval to build his first Hyperloop, from NYC to DC -- approval that appears to have come from the White House.What's not clear is why Musk has suddenly decided to reverse course and begin working on his own Hyperloop platform.This article is dated Aug 4, 2017.https://www.engadget.com/2017-08-04-bloomberg-elon-musk-own-hyperloop.html

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 07:08:08 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 06:01:14 amShow actual evidence that The Boring Company has done any work on Hyperloop, or any actual news after that. Digging tunnels is not working on actual Hyperloop technology.Just read the Wikipedia page. It mentions Hyperloop, but he immediately started working on car elevator lifts,notHyperloop.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boring_CompanyQuoteSo show evidence of actual Hyperloop pod/propulsion technology development, as it sound like it never happened and he's all but abandoned the concept.Nothing in Projects:https://www.boringcompany.com/projectsNothing in FAQ, just "the loop" which is for cars. Just some mention of long journey concept.https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

author: SerieZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 03:12:23 pm
content: I was never a big fan of personality cults.Be it on the senseless bashing or admiration side.Thunderfoot has a weird tendency to obsess over people no matter what and repeat the same point a thousand times.Makes it hard to enjoy his videos sometimes and I have been following him since the early golden crocoduck days.And this to me seems like comparing apples to oranges.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 03:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 06:01:14 amLOL, and all of that speculation from Elon's tweet "I guess a proof of concept is needed".

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: SerieZ on August 07, 2020, 03:12:23 pmI agree with you. While I appreciate the content of his videos, they can be too long and are repetitive. I also don't like the short inserted videos clips.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 07, 2020, 07:08:08 amIt appears Elon and friends are doing some work. This is from 2019. They published a 505 page environmental assessment.https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musks-boring-company-takes-small-step-toward-reality/But isn't the real issue the physics? Elon, like Elizabeth Holmes it appears believe their words are more powerful then the laws of physics.Elon and Tesla are in some ways very similar. Both have had come up with some very ventures. Both were real showmen and Tesla really liked the ladies. And both have made outrageous claims. While Tesla's education was by experimentation, Elon has a degree in physics. Many of the crazy things Elon is proposing isn't possible or practical.There's a reason we all aren't driving Tesla's car which he said was powered by the energy in the universe. At least Elon is using batteries.I have so much faith and trust Elon's ideas and products I purchases an EV. A Chevy EV that is.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:53:35 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 04:31:06 pmThe first sentence contradicts the title. Sensationalism thrives, real journalism is dead. Loop has nothing to do with hyperloop.Quote

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 08:21:06 pm
content: Look I'm not expert on this. But I did take and pass a physics class.As piece the story together. Elon had the same "brilliant" idea folks had well over 100 years ago for some from on pneumatic tube for transportation of people. A two station people carrying pneumatic tube was built and tested in New York. It worked, but must not have worked that well it never went into commercial operation.Elon around 2012 tells some guy that this is the future of mass-transportation and makes the technology open source. Elon, in my opinion, must have been high because a lot of what he was telling the guy was more science fiction than reality.Then between 2012-2017 multiple companies ignored the physics thinking they could build Elon's science fiction Hyperloop.2017-2018 Elon thinking the first Hyperloop should have been built by now says he's going to build his own. Elon gets approval of the White House to build one on the East Coast.2019 Elon submits some of the paperwork required to build his Loop.Elon is being Just like Tesla. He's makes these big outrageous claims and doesn't do much of what he said he was going to do.Feel free to correct me. I've tried to provide the "information and news" I've been hearing and read. In this time of fake new, BS news and fake science it's hard to know what's true in the news and when Elon has smoked too much dope.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 08:35:24 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 08:21:06 pmIt's not a pneumatic tube. Passing the class means that you learned how to pass the class, not actually learned anything useful I guess.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 08:44:06 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 08:21:06 pmCould there possibly have been any advances in technology since well over 100 years ago?I don't know enough about the Hyperloop, or Musk's participation in it, to either defend it or criticize it -- but your comment above is pretty pathetic.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 08:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 08:21:06 pmHow about reading further than title and looking at sources they base their article? Modern news titles are stupid clickbait in 95% of cases. As I already wrote about one of those articles you linked. Elon posted a tweet: "I guess a proof of concept is needed". They wrote a page long article filled with speculations and nonsense. If you read further and not only the title, you'd notice that article is a baseless speculation about tweet with zero information.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 09:49:52 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 08:35:24 pmHelp me out here, why do you say this is NOT a pneumatic system?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:03:51 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 09:49:52 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PneumaticsQuoteHypeloop is something opposite.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 08:44:15 pmI believe you are mistaken. There is a link to a 500 page draft document. Why would they produce a 500 page document?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:08:39 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 10:05:07 pmThere is a link to a500 page document which has nothing to do with hyperloop.EDIT: and BTW it's a different article with that link. I was talking about article taking about tweet and no documents. Not that article with a link is any better.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 10:03:51 pmSince you quote Wikipedia as fact, I will also.Pneumatic tubes (or capsule pipelines; also known as pneumatic tube transport or PTT) are systems that propel cylindrical containers through networks of tubes by compressed airor by partial vacuum.Isn't Hyperloop using a low pressure or partial vacuum?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tubeNot bad for just having a public education.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 10:15:22 pmDo you really think that anything where is any gas is pneumatics? How about your room? It has air inside it. Or how about usual subway, there is a gas in the tubes!!!Hyperloop does not use any gas for propulsion. It removes gas from the tube so it does not cause atmospheric friction. Propulsion is made by other means, for example Maglev.Yeah, apparently US public education sucks. ...Sucks...gas??? education must be pneumatics too!

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:30:54 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 07, 2020, 04:35:53 amJul 22, 2019Elon Musk promises new Hyperloop tunnel after speed record broken.Why do you say Elon does not own or have any vested interest is any Hyperloop company?I keep finding articles that indicates he does.Here's another one.https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/22/20703423/tum-hyperloop-record-463-kmph-spacex-elon-musk-competitionAnd SpaceX to build massive, new Hyperloop tunnel for 2020 competition, says Elon Musk.https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-new-hyperloop-test-track-2020/Not trying to promote fake news or conspiracy theories. (The web and this forum have enough people do that already.)But I have cited a couple of different credible sources which sure makes it appear Elon in in the Hyperloop business.I would like to ask why you think he's not?Thanks

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:34:34 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 10:30:54 pmSmall diameter tunnel for students to compete.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 10:34:34 pmYou know you are kind of being a dick with the face plants. You could have been a bit more nicer instead of implying with the face-spats I some dumb fuck.It was my understanding Hyperloop was a pneumatic tube type system. That's because I was believing what I was reading and being told in news reports. Hyperloop is NOT a pneumatic system at all. (You could have been polite and pointed the out to me instead of being condescending.) I know realize Hyperloop is a vactrain and not pneumatic as I was lead to believe.Lighten up my friend. I'm in this forum to learn. No need to treat me like shit.Thank you

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:48:30 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 10:44:15 pmI often lose my cool since my fuse is short and I'm sorry for that. But you should also understand that giving arguments to you is somewhat similar to throwing them against concrete wall.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 10:58:48 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 10:48:30 pmWhy do you say that?When provided with credible evidence, my mind can be changed. When I'm wrong I will admit it.There are so many people out there pedaling fake news, conspiracies, bullshit it's hard to know who the "good/honest" people are. I thought and still think you are one of the "good" ones.While I didn't appreciate the face-spats, I do appreciate you questioning my posts. I learned a few things - Thank you.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 11:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 10:58:48 pmWell, I actually was quite surprised that you admitted you were wrong about pneumatics. Because I had a feeling that my arguments simply bounce without you bothering to explore what I said. I actually enjoy civilized conversation much more. But it just itches and is so easy to click on facepalmLOL.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 11:49:11 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 11:11:53 pmHey if I'm wrong I will admit I'm wrong. I didn't really pay much attention to Elon. While I will admin what he's been able to accomplish is amazing. But for a guy who has a degree in physics you sure have to wonder if some of the things he's saying are due to drugs and are really stupid.As previously posted, I wasn't paying that much attention to what Elon was proposing and (stupid me) trusted news people to give accurate news reports. Turns out I was duped. You made me realize that. - Thanks again. Feel free to kindly correct me at any time. If after three attempts face-splat me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 11:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 07, 2020, 04:31:06 pmNope. Learn the difference between The Loop and The Hyperloop. That is about The Loop, the car transport version.Again, please provide evidence that the Boring Company has done any actual real engineering work on The Hyperloop.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 12:49:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 07, 2020, 11:54:05 pmI get it. Sorry for the confusion. I'm realizing there is a lot of misinformation out there on Hyperloop, loop and Elon's involvement.Goolge says "Hyperloop is an ultra-high-speed underground public transportation system in which passengers are transported at 600+ mph within a vacuum-sealed tunnel."I took this to mean pneumatic. It's really vactrain.And I found other articles saying Loop is a car transport or a people transport (like a bus).I think I have it straight now. What ever the press and Elon says might or might not be true.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 11:00:32 am
content: Flying between SF and LA takes about half an hour (for the actual flight) . And its a really pretty flight, as they go. And interesting, because they invariably follow the San Andreas Fault (or the coastline) all the way down and back - The fault is like a crinkly marker that just goes across the landscape.Of course its the delay at airports that eats up most of the time.But how would that be different with a hype-loop? (pretending for a minute that it had happened) Because it would need to have the same level of security as an airliner.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 12:16:25 pm
content: If you calculate the projected cost to build the high-speed train from SF to LA every man women and child would have to make that trip 100 times, paying $100 just to cover construction costs/You are right what happens if there is an earthquake and the ground shifts 25 feet? I don’t think the track for a high speed train or the tube for the Hyperloop would be that flexible. Would shut hate to be traveling at 200 to 800 mph when there’s an earthquake. And for those who says it’s not going to happen.... Ridgecrest, just 100 miles to the north of LA has had over 30 4.5 - 7.1 earth quakes over the past year.There are some who think none of this maters and we should build a high-speed train and/or a Hyperloop between SF and LA.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 12:36:53 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on August 09, 2020, 12:16:25 pmYou just made this up. You have no actual data on this.QuoteEarthquakes usually pose no serious threats to underground systems, especially if you dig deep enough. Most of the damage happens on the earth surface. It's pretty much the same as waves on water, where the water underneath is calm.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 01:06:43 pm
content: Have you ever lived in California, or any other place where earthquakes are common? It sounds as if you have not. They now build tall buildings with things like built in rollers and shock absorbers so they can flex and sway with the shocks, which are not infrequent. A really large earthquake can move the relative positions of objects on opposite sides of the fault by many meters. Also the ground can liquefy and erupt if its wet.Earthquakes definitely would and do pose a threat to tunnels. They have various ways to adjust to this, I am not saying its "impossible" but it definitely would and does add substantially to costs and the planning thats required.Otherwise this hype-train could find itself suddenly making a little directional adjustment... underground, at 500 mph!Quote from: wraper on August 09, 2020, 12:36:53 pmThis statement of yours could not possibly be true. Earthquakes are definitely an underground phenomenon, not a surface one.One interesting electronics related phenomenon which I have seen, which are still not well understood is, very large earthquakes cause very bright flashes in the sky. (the ones I saw were greenish blue) very much like lightning. This must mean that there are very high voltage potentials in the ground.I saw this once years ago and for decades I had no idea what it was that I had seen because it was not described in the literature.But recentlly, thanks to sites like Youtube now there are a great many videos people have taken of them.So that represents another potential problem that must be planned for. If a high voltage spike is large enough to cause these discharges into the sky, they must be absolutely huge.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 02:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on August 09, 2020, 01:06:43 pmHere we go again. Refuse to explore what I said.https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/Status/Blog/tunnels-and-earthquakesQuote

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 04:22:38 pm
content: There seems to be some confusion between groundwaves caused by an earthquake and sctual movement across the fault. If you build a tunnel accross or near a fault, you will have to worry about underground movement, otherwise it'll just be surface waves.QuoteI did my college geology project on the electrical effects in earthquakes. There is actually a fair amount of research if you dig deep enough, including studies and theories for the above phenomenon, piezoelectric properties of different rocks, and even large scale experements in the 90s and 00s using magnetohydrodynamic generators to force microquakes preventing energy buildup that would cause a larger quake.However...it's not going to pose a threat to a conductive metal tube, it would be similar to lightning hitting an airplane.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 06:02:36 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 09, 2020, 12:36:53 pmDude are you for real? Did you do any research? Or, I will used your words? Are "you making this up?When you say most of the damage will be on the surface, does this mean there will be NO damage underground? Doesn't sound like that way.The high-speed train from SF to LA is to be on the surface in this part of the state. Someone else posted the picture showing the fault where the ground shifted 25 feet or so.Are you the one who is making shit up?Try using the Internet - I found two "credible" research papers on earthquake damage in tunnels.http://indexsmart.mirasmart.com/AREMA_CP_2019/PDFFiles/03%20Headifen%20et%20al.pdf"The Hope Fault sheared the tunnel barrel with a reverse upward movement that lifted the northern 87.5yards (80m) of the tunnel by 13.8 inches (350mm)..."https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2467967417300053"Their conclusions can be summarized as follow:• Collapse of tunnels from shaking occurs only under extreme conditions.• Tunnel collapse only occurred associated with movement of an intersected fault."Hyperloop and the High speed train from SF to LA would cross several active earthquake faults.Has any of these "creditable" research papers changed your mind?

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2020, 06:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on August 09, 2020, 04:22:38 pmYour research sounds very interesting.Going off the deep end.... Sounds like this could be a way to supply California with electricity.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 04:00:07 am
content: "Virgin Hyperloop became the first company to conduct a human test of the technology on Sunday at its 500-meter test track in the desert north of Las Vegas. The two volunteers, wearing casual street clothes, were whisked in a pod that was levitated by magnets inside a vacuum tube to 107 m.p.h. in 6.25 seconds"A step forward

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 04:58:23 am
content: I could see it having a future as an amusement park ride, and it would make a slick attraction for a worlds fair like the monorail in Seattle. Like that monorail I don't see it ever scaling to what they are currently promising.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 09:57:00 am
content: The article says that the Dutch one is looking to move cargo first, which seems a pretty reasonable idea to me. Walk, trot, run - doing the reverse order often leads to tears (or nothing, as perfection always remains just out of reach).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 11:26:51 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 09, 2020, 04:00:07 am2030 huh?At least the reality is starting to kick in slowly...

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 10:10:41 pm
content: AFAIR, no-one said it had to happen next week. New stuff takes time to get right. Or fail, of course.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 10:13:23 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 09, 2020, 10:10:41 pmLOLEveryonewas saying it was a couple of years away, including Virgin which said operational by 2021:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Hyperloophttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/hyperloop-one-co-founders-on-first-successful-hyperloop-test/

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 10:21:16 pm
content: Fair cop - it is actually next week!Mind, it's taken over 100 years to get this far, so a decade or so is probably within the error margins

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:42:21 pm
content: I wonder if anyone also has ran the numbers on the energy efficiency of these hyperloops. It's one of the first big claims on wikipedia. I've collected a few numbers of energy efficiency of various travel methods. Listed below:- Walking: 22MJ/100km/person- Cycling: 11MJ/100km/person- E-bike: 12MJ/100km/person- Petrol car (5L/100km), 171MJ/100km- 1 passenger: 171MJ/100km/person- 2 passengers: 85.5MJ/100km/person- 4 passengers: 42.8MJ/100km/person- Electric car (152Wh/km), 54.8MJ/100km- 1 passenger: 54.8MJ/100km/person- 2 passengers: 27.4MJ/100km/person- 4 passengers: 13.9MJ/100km/person- Airplane regional (<1000km): Airbus A320, 2.25L/100km/person -> 79MJ/100km/person- Airplane long-haul (10000km): Airbus A350, 2.39L/100km/person -> 83.7MJ/100km/person- Train: depends on terrain and speed, but can be as low as 7.7MJ/100km/personSo train looks to be pretty good. In fact, airplane and car seems so much worse that's pretty easy to beat.. (To be honest I was surprised that a petrol car and modern airplanes were this close)Unfortunately, this does not account for infrastructure cost (train tracks, highways, airports, etc.) and vehicle costs.And that's the point I've trouble finding accurate information about on hyperloops. How much metal or plastics is needed per km of track, and how does this compare to other infrastructure? How much quiescent power is there to create a low-pressure environment in the loop? How much energy does it cost to move the pods? Is it even practical, large-scale for thousands of km's, to build a tube with >2 meter diameter for such a low pressure? (Wall thickness scales with tube diameter) It's significantly bigger than for example oil or gas tubing, although those will have to deal with far greater pressure differences.I really do question if there isn't an excessive amount of "energy" (= CO2release) required for the construction of these hyperloop tubes. Just comparing these hyperloops to existing train tracks, it seems like it requires a significant amount of additional infrastructure to build them. Virgin's site states very nicely there are no "direct emissions". That's great and all, but designing mega wind turbines becomes trivial if you have unlimited steel to play with. That doesn't mean that such a wind turbine net effect on the environment is positive.Although the concept is cool and very futuristic, I'm yet to be convinced that this is an actual step forward to travel long distances more environment friendly. Or, perhaps worse, since it wants to compete with airplane travel times, facilitating long travel even more to the point that user patterns of energy consumption is far worse than the technology we use.I'm not sure if SF to LA ticket would cost 25$.. It doesn't seem a sustainable price to me. If anything, marketing the hyperloop as the big step in future energy efficient travelwhileoffering faster travel times seems so counter-intuitive too me. I'm not saying I'm unhappy with capitalism, but the fast travel claim just is that IMO.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transporthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircrafthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_densityhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_EPA_fuel_economy

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 02:19:20 am
content: Quote from: hans on November 10, 2020, 03:42:21 pmI'd be stunned if it was. The Shanghai Maglev was not economically viable, and it can hold hundreds of passengers at a time like a normal train, not just a handful in a small Hyperloop pod.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 07:01:46 pm
content: I'd guess that train infrastructure (aka rails) are way cheaper than roads to create and maintain. Probably in the order of magnitudes cheaper than Hyperloops (creating and maintaining).There has been that cool "Transrapid" (Maglev train) in Germany, being pretty much fully developed - but it came with prohibitive costs. So China went with it, not sure, if it really pays off. (In Germany, it would have been impossible to build, unfortunately. In China, you simply move away peoples' villages, if they are blocking your road or rail...)Concerning "tunnels and quakes", there is one seriously affected tunnel in Istanbul (Bosporus tunnel), which has movable parts to withstand a 7.5 Richter-scale quake. The area has smaller quakes all the time (tectonic plates collision zone), however they are still waiting on a projected much larger quake...

author: cortex_m0
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 10:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 09, 2020, 04:00:07 amIf I did the math right, the passengers were subjected to 0.8 g-forces? One of the other Hyperloop operators (HyperloopTT) said a year ago that their hyperloop between Chicago and Cleveland had been reduced to 0.1g acceleration because of Federal Railroad Comission compliance reasons. See pg. 30 of this PDF:https://8508ab36-da5a-4138-b6f6-8384719812eb.filesusr.com/ugd/c9f49b_93809c4776b74bf6952050ea7fe0e08f.pdfThat's a pretty big gap, if HyperloopTT's description of the regulations is accurate.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 12:58:00 pm
content: https://defector.com/virgin-hyperloop-has-invented-the-worlds-crappiest-high-speed-rail/LOL!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 01:27:40 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on November 14, 2020, 12:58:00 pmRather dumb article full of FUD frankly. They call it slow but fail to realize or mention that you cannot reach higher speeds in such a short section, you need to build a longer tube to do so. You simply won't be able to break before reaching it's end. Or that it's only a test track to demonstrate technology. And frankly acceleration is pretty good to indicate it can travel much faster. Then claiming BS like this:QuoteWhat is that wonderful "shit" that already works? The fastest trains in Italy have 300 km/h operational speed.I don't say that it's good or necessarily viable. But diminishing it by throwing random shit is not a good argument against it. Also currently reachable speed is the least important part of it. Because as long as they get the vacuum thing right, there is nothing fundamental that prevents it from reaching high speeds with maglev.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 02:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: cortex_m0 on November 12, 2020, 10:06:35 pmAcceleration is high because otherwise they would not be able to reach even this measly speed over a short track. If they build track which is tens of kilometers long, nothing prevents them from using slower acceleration.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 05:54:53 pm
content: The Hyper-loop test was a scam.https://youtu.be/VrbstnzbhZA

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 06:29:21 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 14, 2020, 05:54:53 pmI don't read eevblog to follow youtube links. If you can't take the time to present whatever argument you believe from the video, you'll just have to fail to communicate.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 10:57:33 pm
content: You are very wise. I, OTOH, am having supper so gave it a whirl. The opening screenshot gave the game away - it is thuderf00t, of course. Had to skip to some random part to find out what his beef is, and that was where he was ranting that the capsule had windows. Which it does. As, of course, do the trains that run under the English Channel - maybe he BUSTED those in a previouschequevideo.Lost the will to live at that point.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 12:43:18 am
content: California is a very mountainous state. I believe the current estimate for CAHSR is $68b, much of which is tunneling costs - and Hyperloop would need some very long railway tunnels as well. (And that is almost certainly a sales-pitch underestimate, on the premise that once it's obvious it can't be met they will raise it to $80b, and sell it using the argument that since we're already $50b in... and then repeat until the project is done at a final cost closer to $200b.) Even if Hyperloop builds it out for $40b (a private enterprise will certainly cost less than a government one), if it somehow magically gets right-of-way through populated areas (CAHSR expects to reuse existing right of way, but no cities in the SF Bay Area will want an elevated railway, and will go to court to prevent it). $25 per ride isn't going to begin to cover capital costs. Even $100 would be optimistic. (CAHSR will almost certainly be run at an operational loss, while having no capital costs, and they'll probably land around $100 - sufficiently subsidized to compete with air travel.) Just a 5% interest payment on $40b is $2b... That's the equivalent of 80 million trips at $25. Just for the interest, never mind principal, maintenance, operational costs, reinvestment (improvements, rolling stock replacement, etc), facilities, terminals (for what, 200 million trips per year in a state with 40 million people???)... It's just not a serious project. Maybe Texas (which is much flatter, and has a much more sensible HSR project going). This is separate from all the other technical objections, but if Hyperloop manages to economically bore railway tunnels they could run conventional tracks when the other 1950s poplit scifi stuff is abandoned.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 01:53:46 am
content: I don't see any technological reason that the hyperloop could not be implemented, but to say that I'm skeptical of it ever being practical or economical would be an understatement. I just don't see much advantage over traditional high speed rail. It could be faster for the energy used, but any savings are likely offset by the much higher cost of the construction and maintenance.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:19:47 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 14, 2020, 10:57:33 pmHe does ramble on a bit, but you missed the point of his vide. I have been on that train that runs under the English Channel and couldn’t see any fish out the window. Have you? Which is exactly one of the points he was making in the video. Another is it didn’t transport the riders anywhere. They got on, where they got off.Another is did he build the hyper loop in London or New York where people are going to ride it? It’s opening this year.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:22:59 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 15, 2020, 01:53:46 amThere are some very difficult technical and safety issues which we don’t have solutions for. One of the biggest is thermal expansion/contraction. Other is maintains the vacuum. There are so many more.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:25:37 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on November 14, 2020, 06:29:21 pmSad you don’t watch any of Dave’s videos. They are very good. I’ve learned a lot from Dave’s videos as well as other videos posted by others. You might want to give watching videos a try before you die. You might learn something.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:55:04 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 15, 2020, 03:25:37 amThat would be an invalid leap of logic, which doesn't surprise me. Not following blind forum video links to lengthy videos that rarely are worth watching does not mean I never watch videos. I do follow various channels from a proper interface where I can see the author, title, date, and length BEFORE I choose to view them now, later, or never.Now if you weren't someone with a history of linking videos instead of using words and the video had a proper summary of something that interested me greatly, that might be another story.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 04:56:14 am
content: QuoteI don't think so. I am sure he achieved what he set out to do.QuoteAnd yet there are windows. So perhaps having windows doesn't invalidate the entire tunnel design after all, eh.QuoteSorry, you've lost me there - should they have been made to walk back or something?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:33:13 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on November 14, 2020, 06:29:21 pmYou are free to ignore all video links, you don't have the click on them.Going out of your way to tell everyone that you don't follow video links says more about you than it does the person posting the link.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:35:03 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 15, 2020, 01:53:46 am^^^ This.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:40:34 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 14, 2020, 05:54:53 pmFrankly that video consists from a lot of rambling and barely any proof it's a scam. Same information could be easily presented in less than 5 minutes instead of 25.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 11:57:21 am
content: I think thunderf00t's sceptism is well in place. I don't really care that much about the speeds this test run has achieved.. that's a limitation of the test track length and reasonable acceleration forces. It's hilarious, that's all. But the whole look and feel of the program is so dumbed down. Look, we have a pod in a tube and it moves! Okay, and what about the rest? So many key points or details unanswered..I think the potential hazards of a sudden decompression are real. If a tree or some other big object (helicopter, recreational airplane, etc.) falls onto a hyperloop, is it going to suddenly decompress? What is going to happen with the pods in that section of the loop? Is it technically even *feasible* to create multiple vacuum sections for added safety? Are there vacuum doors that can seal well and fast enough for pods to enter the hyperloop or sections of loop? What if those doors fail? Are suddenly all pods of the loop in danger because of a vacuum leak?I haven't seen any mention of doors. There is freaking train track *inside* the door after all. Maybe a small section of discontinuity is fine for the pod near a station.. but maybe it is not at full speed.Then is the potential energy of the created vacuum. Just look at the scale of those numbers; multiply them by 10s or 100s of km and you have a ticking bomb on the ground. For that reason I'm actually quite happy planes fly at >30kft. If an airframe decompression happens at that altitude, pilots will deploy oxygen masks and descend the plane rapidly to 10k ft or so to regain a survivable atmospheric pressure. (See Helios Airways Flight 522 to read what happens if you don't). What's the backup plan in a hyperloop if the loop or a pod suddenly decompresses? I can't think of many options. Are passengers going to be stuck on that journey (possibly with an oxygen mask)? What if some passengers didn't get the mask-memo and are unconscious after 30 seconds for the whole journey? Normally I'm not claustrophobic, but I think many people would suddenly be in that case..That is... assuming that oxygen masks even work. After all we're in a near complete vacuum. Maybe people will just die within a few seconds because your body cannot contain the air within your lungs because of the expansion. I wouldn't get into a hyperloop if it doesn't have multiple redundant backup systems to be honest..I think that latter point is alone to be skeptic about the Virgin test being actually performed at low pressure. Have they put those redundant safety systems in place at the test loop? Or have they tested without them, risking the lives of their highly positioned staff of the hyperloop project? Doubtful.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 12:00:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 15, 2020, 09:33:13 amFair point. I allowed myself to become annoyed. Usually I am more tolerant.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 12:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: hans on November 15, 2020, 11:57:21 amThat's what so many people either don't get, or choose to consciously ignore in pursuit of "the dream".Many will compare them to planes, but what they don't realise it's actually opposite. If a plane decompresses then oxygen drops and it trivial to drop to safe altitude in time. Proven and foolproof in a small tube.But with the Hyperloop you are trying tokeep outpressure instead of keeping it in, in tubes hundreds of km long. A big failure doesn't mean decompression, it means implosion of some description. The entire concept of making it work is practical insanity and doomed to failure.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 01:14:28 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 15, 2020, 12:43:13 pmAll those examples of implosions and comparing them to Hyperloop are non informative BS to be frank. Imploding some tank which was designed to hold the pressure inside is not an indicator of how a properly designed vacuum container would perform. Say usual submarines operate at outside pressure of 30 times higher than atmospheric and nothing implodes. And deep diving submersibles with humans inside operated even at more than 1000 times of atmospheric pressure.EDIT: and the pod is not much different from an airplane cabin at high altitude.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 01:34:43 pm
content: Nope, but you can buy tickets for ICE, TGV, Shinkansen or other high speed trains which are running fine for decades.Fromhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail:QuoteAnd Hyperloop thinks that 100 mph are an achievement in 2020?

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on November 15, 2020, 03:55:04 amDude sounds like you are part of the vacuum tube generation. Time to get with all of the new technology. YouTube is filled with excellent videos from very credible sources. The material can be explained far more accurately and in greater detail in a video. I’d sure like to see a paper teaching someone how to solder. In a video the concept can be clearly explained in 5 minutes.Yes there is a lot of noise on YouTube, but dang dude, why would you not watch the videos I posted from Sandy, Dave and others. Why would you want to spend hours reading Sandy’s 150 page report on Tesla when you can watch his 15 minute video and get to see exactly what he is talking about. I’m not posting links to shitty videos. But I sure have seen links posted here on bogus papers. Crap on how bio-fuel is carbon neutral. Or that the Great Barrier Reef is dying. Or the total BS claim man caused climate change isn’t happening. Were some of those your posts?

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 04:50:32 pm
content: Maybe a more condensed objective view. The main challenges in a hyperloop system currently seem to be:SafetyPod DecompressionTube DecompressionEscapeReliabilityPartial Vacuum MaintenanceCost effectivenessAchieving the above with cost-benefit attractive compared to existing solutionsEach of those key points can be broken down into much finer points but the above give an overview of the major unique challenges for a hyperloop system to be practical.Virgin Hyperloop DemoThe demo by Virgin Hyperloop shows that they are capable of building a maglev train capable of carrying people in a tube evacuated to 100 Pa [see above video description]. I don't thinkwhether or not a maglev train with a passenger pod running in partial vacuum tube can be built at such a small scaleis a major question but the competency to do so is at least a minimum requirement. So as Thunderfoot also said, good on them for at least achieving that. However, I don't see any breakthroughs or innovations as far as addressing the main issues. The tubes shown in the Virgin Hyperloop Demo look like conventional pressure vessels/pipes with conventional fittings, their work so far has been to attach rails and LED lights to the interior of the pipe and make a passenger pod.CostI'll get keen if I can see some evidence of developments which actually solve the main challenges. Perhaps some modular track system with associated mass production facilities; an array of highly DFM optimised tube sections which can be bolted together to enable all required functions including terminals, vacuum maintenance, emergency escapes and just curved sections (only straight sections so far).Whether or not the track system can be cost optimised to a point that the additional cost of the enclosing tube beats running costs and performance limits of existing maglev and air travel is the most important question imo.SafetyA means of automatic, high-reliability isolation of breached sections would be an important innovation to improve reliability and safety. Such a system might also be able to dump air into the beached section to remove pressure differential for best safety.Partial Vacuum MaintenanceI don't think creating and maintaining the vacuum itself in terms of sealing and leakage is going to be big issue given we already have similar and matured technology in the form of gas transmission pipelines. Gas lines already criss-cross the country and operate in excess of 10x the pressure differential (1050 kPa) of a Hyperloop with very tight leakage allowances since they of course contain explosive gasses. Had a gander in AS 2885 (the Australian Standard of gas and petroleum pipelines) and pipes are meant to be "leak tight" but permit an "allowable fluid variation" of 400 L/24 h for undeveloped rural land down to 20 L/24 h for high density in pipe volumes up to 25 ML. Maybe someone with a mate in the gas industry can comment?Vacuum Structural ConcernsDecompression and vacuum pressure are also not the biggest issues. Even in Thunderfoot's video he goes to great pains to ramble about how a pressurised pod is no different to a plane cabin for the most part. Implosion wouldn't be a major failure mode, the tubes are under pressure all the time, if anything a local failure results in less stress on the tubes not some runaway implosionVideos you've seen of tankers or barrels being imploded are not analogous, those are vessels designed for a completely different load being subjected to the inverse of that load. Since vacuum vessel walls are in compression rather than tension they need to be designed to resist buckling, that's why vacuum hoses are typically ribbed. The buckling failure mode you see in tanker implosions are not a relevant concern for a properly designed vacuum vessel. It's like being worried about steel I-beams being weak because steel cable bends so easily when you compress itdifferent loads, different design optimisations. The actual stresses are much lower than most pressure vessels due to an absolute limit of pressure at 1atm but the tangential area moment of inertia needs to be bigger to prevent buckling (hence ribbing).On that point about structural design of tubes, I'm surprised no one has presented anything like a ribbed or thick-walled tube structure or even a double cylinder similar to the "double bubble" fuselage like the Aurora D8 (https://youtu.be/H7Z04Tl1-1Q) or maybe they have and it hasn't cross my field of view yet. Would be nice to see a video or article which sums up the different companies and their innovations if any.I've given some counter arguments to points people have raised against a Hyperloops but don't take that to mean I think they're a practical idea. I've started this off by offering my take on the main issues the concept faces and provided a constructive take on what I want to see done. I also don't see Virgin Hyperloop or any of the other Hyperloop startups as yet being likely to succeed. What I don't agree with is some of the poor reasoning and sources presented. Thunderfoot is especially guilty of this, citing and responding to incorrect second-hand and in many cases MSM sources targeted at a general public lay audience then critising it for lack of technical rigor might as well be straw manning e.g.Thunderfoot claims that Elon claims to have invented the hyperloop by playing second-hand sources to build his strawman then attacking it by saying Robert Goddard came up with the idea first when the truth is inthe original paper(first-hand source! if you think its editedarchived source) they literally, explicitly credit the idea of trains in vacuum tubes to Robert Goddard, Rand and ET3.You should realise he's playing anti-Musk sentiments for views, he makes videos aimed to stroke outrage not provide information. If you want to actually examine an idea for its merit then examine the actual idea not some crappy clickbait trying to sponge hype for views i.e. look at the original paper or other first hand sources by the companies working on the idea. That being said I'm sure some of you are here to just circlejerk about how some rich people are wasting money and not to do any meaningful "debunking". No complaints about most of the debunking videos I see Dave do, they are normally at least examining first-party claims but Thunderfoot is a farce. I don't want to see you BSing yourself into trying to get an easy takedown.Edit: As for the concern that air leaking into the tube would cause any danger I don't know where that's coming from but that'll just cause drag and make the train operate at a lower speed or the train can otherwise initiate breaking as per the original paper or other videos (less "bearish") videos about hyperloop. The original paper also has full details of the proposed workings of the hyperloop including safety measures and quantified technical details, don't listen to Thunderfoot's alternative reality strawman hyperloop

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 05:29:53 pm
content: I had some thoughts about stations and came to conclusion it's not that big of a problem at all. Sealing of the tube can be done just as on the video. And stations just as usual train stations. People board the train just as in usual station. Then train enters a short section of tube, then a section of rail is retracted sideways (proven technology) to clear obstruction, then tube opening is closed just as on the video. On the other end of this section is a somewhat wider chamber with the same method of sealing and the same retractable rail. Once train enters and tube is sealed from the outside, air is pumped out, internal seal opens, rail is moved, train passes further, rail is retracted, seal closed. And train can move forward normally.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 05:33:21 pm
content: That - sandalscandal's take - is the kind of examination I could read all day. Well, the minute or so it actually took. It will be a sad day when he discovers 25-min ad-supported video.One thing I'd take issue with, though, is cost. It is fine to say, "Blimey, that's jolly expensive" but we aren't investors and we're not paying for it. Surely, the fact that someone is coughing up means it's affordable to them.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 05:44:07 pm
content: Quote from: sandalcandal on November 15, 2020, 04:50:32 pmYes, it's like taking a bridge, turning it upside down, then rambling that bridges are impossible because they fall apart.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: sandalcandal on November 15, 2020, 04:50:32 pmIIRC In an earlier video Thunderfoot's concern was that in case of a catastrophic breach of tube (for example a truck crashing into it, or sabotage) where air can freely enter the tube, you get an inrush of air at about the speed of sound which will turn any capsule it encounters into a bullet.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:43:13 pm
content: Here I visualized how train could enter the tube. Nothing extraordinary.

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 10:06:21 pm
content: Made myself watch OP Thunderfoot videohttps://youtu.be/2h6Cz4hwuEIdespite his annoying schoolboy attitude and I've made some notes on what his actual points are between the rambling and attempted rage baiting0:00-2:05 Lots of money has been spent/invested but no working system yet2:05-5:15 Theranos tangent and likeness citing second-party claims (no actual arguments)5:15-7:20 Elon Musk stole the vacuum tube train idea from Robert Goddard7:20-8:00 Previous vacuum train ideas were impractical8:00-9:00 Empty straw manning9:00-11:35 Boring Company City Loops11:35-13:29 Lack of Progress13:29-14:23 Air bearings14:23-23:35 Slow Progress23:35-24:20 Videos Videos24:20-25:21 Boring Company Loop outro1. Lots of money has indeed been invested into companies working on hyperloops with grand promises but nothing delivered. Not starting with a lie afaik.2. Theranos is indeed a well known fraud. If you want an actual informational video about Theranos I recommendhttps://youtu.be/3CccfnRpPtMandhttps://youtu.be/qUFHEZOfQ0kHowever, immediately associating it with hyperloop is ahasty generalisationprobably designed to immediately cast the subject in a poor light to help setup the rest of his rant. Throughout the video he likens Musk to Elizabeth Holmes as though he's some how getting rich off the idea and investment money going into itin case you don't know he has no active involvement beyond SpaceX running theHyperloop pod student competition.3. Thunderfoot's assertionElon Musk stole the credit for the vacuum tube train idea from Robert GoddardCompletely false, as permy previous post, theoriginal paperspecifically credits the idea of vacuum tube trains to Robert Goddard, Rand and ET3.Quote from: Hyperloop Alpha3/4."There is absolutely nothing new or novel about the concept of the Hyperloop"-Thunderf00t. The original paper attempts to propose meaningful changes to the concept to make it feasible not that Thunderfoot would let the truth get in the way of a good non-factual rant. A key point made in the paper is that hard vacuums proposed in previous iterations are impractical and difficult thus a low vacuum system should be used rather than a hard vacuum.Quote from: Hyperloop AlphaThe main changes to the vacuum train concept which the Hyperloop proposes are: low pressure instead of vacuum, electric fan compressor to overcome Kantrowitz Limit, above ground pylons with heavy prefab for cost and pylon design+telescoping sections for earthquake resistance and PV for self-power.5. Nothing of substance here from Thunderfoot, just straw manning and made up delusions. The original paper has detailed cost estimates with breakdowns but any actual analysis or discussion of those numbers are probably beyond the target audience or presenter.6. Thunderfoot gives no basis for his deluded claims again straw manning AND makes a false analogy by saying two superficially similar concepts are fungible. The Hyperloop is meant to solve high speed regional travel and thus requires very high speed achieved through partially evacuated tubes. The Boring Company and associated Loops are meant to solve congestion in high-density American cities, that's why they're underground instead of on pylons like Hyperloop, the main competition of the Boring Company tunnels is flying cars7. Not much substance or analysis here Thunderfoot just playing clips from MSMAlso not much substance from here on.8. New third party commercial designs don't use the fan or airbearings which isn't a lie afaik. Keep in mind the original paper also uses maglev for propulsion, the fan is for over coming the Kantrowitz Limit at high speed.9. He's just repeating:Nothing meeting end goals has been done yet10. This part should tell you his real motivation, its a topic that generates lots of views.11. Ending on an outro showing a completely different product. Again, should show you how much analysis and research he's actually doneShallow intellectualism and outrage bait masquerading as "debunking" is what the video is. Just as bad as the MSM videos he pretends to "debunk". Makes me want to puke!The video starts with factual BULLSHIT for the first half, followed by 15 min of irrelevant crap and repeating "there's nothing here yet". There is absolutely no content of value here, no insightful let alone honest investigation of the topic, just deceitful outrage stirring. He starts you rolling with manufactured lies followed by "oh they haven't done it yet [so clearly they never will]" for 15 minAll his "debunking" for this topic is half-truths at best and straight lies designed to stir you up.This message which he plasters in your face at the start of the video:is a lie.Now I'm not saying all his videos are lies, honestly with the low hanging fruit he normally goes for it's hard to be "wrong". I also don't personally see Hyperloops becoming practical and in-use in the next 20 years let alone on the timelines companies are claiming. There's definitely lots of issues for Hyperloop to be practical and the original paper certainly doesn't have all the answers. I definitely don't see any current companies being on a fast rack to success. But for the love of Goddon't get your news and opinions from Thunderf00t videos, they're outrage videos not investigative news or analyses. If your idea of a good time is having your jimmies rustled then feel free to "enjoy" his content but if you want factual information then shut it out.Edit: Saw his 2016 video on the Hyperloop, a lot better than the latest two, not nearly as trashy. I wonder what happened?

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 10:11:19 pm
content: Quote from: hans on November 15, 2020, 11:57:21 amThe entire section will have to be pressurized, assuming there are locks between sections that permit doing so, otherwise the whole system will need to be pressurized. It's just a matter of having enough valves to prevent explosive repressurization. But Thunderfoot is right in comparing it Fyre Festival - it's just not possible within the financial envelope imagined. Also, forget about 600mph, it's not just about air resistance but sheer kinetic energy, but maybe it will run at 300mph, so a little bit faster than CAHSR (where it will be able to actually go that fast, meaning outside urban areas). That's still not competitive with flying, meaning people who travel for business won't use it (at least not if they value their time). The routes and capacity will preclude solving the real traffic problems, which is 99% work commuting and requires LOCAL transit, not a SF-to-LA "vacation line". For vacation travel BTW, run it to Las Vegas. In other words, a casino train. THAT I think would be marketable. Still, not economical, but at least it would find an audience.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 10:22:16 pm
content: Quote from: bson on November 15, 2020, 10:11:19 pmWhat's wrong about kinetic energy and why should it limit the speed? Air resistance? It's specially made to avoid air resistance.QuoteMore like CRAPHSR

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 11:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on November 15, 2020, 09:06:01 pmThat would require a shockwave breech to in order occur. Any breach is going to have a flow rate limited by the size of that breach. That limited flow rate needs to gradually fill the entire volume of this km long pipe. The fact it's coming in at the speed of sound matters much less than the rate mass is coming in. It's not like a breech is going to result in pods hitting a 1 atm wall of air at the speed of sound, unless its a massive breach like an entire section sheared clean off which is highly unlikely to occur from a truck somehow flying up to the tube on top of a pylon and getting a clean cut. Perhaps if some terrorists try to blow a section up?Vacuum gun experiments use a bursting disc to trigger a shockwave onto a very light, well-sealed projectile in a very long tube. This is what a less professional/ideal vacuum gun doeshttps://youtu.be/bAKqzAzfXKQ?t=430Given most recent designs seem to forfeit the tight sealing idea for no compressor and more open space that seems even less likely to be a catastrophic issue and would be even less with automatic isolation as I'd like to see.Edit: His attempt at a vacuum failure demo is pathetic, you could blow a ball out of a tube harder than that, I wonder if you'd get a stronger effect from just tilting the tube down. You can hear the rush of air flowing in "gradually" compared to the shockwave bang in purpose designed vacuum guns.Edit2: I'll admit I wasn't aware of this vacuum gun concern before hand.Edit3: I'd be a lot less displeased if that first 2016 video was the only point of discussion.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 03:05:29 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 15, 2020, 09:43:13 pmThat might work on paper, but not in the real wold. Have you ever worked with vacuum chambers?Something else not sure is Thunderf00t mentioned is what happen at thar speed in the capsule hits a object say the size of a grain of sand or a paint chip? That would easily puncture the capsule leading to immediate depressurization of the capsule. Within 30 seconds or so they would be dead.Guess we could use something like armor platted capsules which might work. But then that will sure add to the cost of propelling the capsule.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 03:29:10 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 16, 2020, 03:05:29 amIt's called an airlock, something that works quite well in the real world. Additionally, we're not talking hard vacuum, but a more practical low pressure.As for a object that small hitting a capsule in space, we do know what happens and how to deal with it, but that's irrelevant. We're not talking the kind of speed differentials you find in space. We're talking airplane speeds, and airplanes shrug off the small stuff all the time. Large birds can be dangerous, but we won't find any of those in the tunnel. Your scenario isn't realistic.But in the event of leaks, there are a number of solutions already thought of, depending on the severity of the problem. Maybe you should read Musk's original paper on the subject. You'd get more basic facts right.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 03:38:07 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 16, 2020, 03:05:29 amIt's not a speed of satellite in space for grain of sand to puncture anything. You need more than order of magnitude higher speed for it to puncture anything. Nor a small hole is enough for rapid depressurization. I can mention ISS as example, they have a small hole from space debris collision from time to time. Nor all of the air got away, nor anybody died. As of what happens at depressurization, obviously there should be safety valves on the tube to let the air in in case of emergency. FYI at 12 km altitude (39k ft) where passenger planes are flying, atmospheric pressure is below 0.2 atm (instead of 1 atm at sea level) which is almost vacuum as far as human organism is concerned and you will lose consciousness if do not put an oxygen mask on your face within a few seconds.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 09:38:38 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 15, 2020, 01:14:28 pmThose vacuum containers aren't hundred of km long. Good luck.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 09:44:38 am
content: Quote from: sandalcandal on November 15, 2020, 04:50:32 pmAnd that's marketing trickery 101. They'll milk it for years.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 11:27:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 16, 2020, 09:38:38 amSo what? It does not become easier to implode because of it's length. I see no issue at least for this particular argument. It's like saying that tube transferring natural gas should explode because of it's length (which actually is way more likely to happen).

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2020, 12:17:43 pm
content: QuoteYes! Undoubtedly.Which is why it's daft to debunk such stuff - it's made to impress whoever non-techy needs impressing, and trying to extract hard technical details... stuff is going to be glossed over at minimum.But... this is Virgin. Recall when they started Virgin Galactic, and you could say pretty much exactly the same thing about that then. Now, they are very nearly going. Branson has managed similar with his airline and trains - there was a lot of sceptism that he could pull them off, but he did in the end. Yes, the trains are shit if you're a passenger but that's Brit trains for youI think the only thing you can really take away from this is that Virgin's marketing videos tend to be quite a bit ahead of reality, so they probably aren't as up to speed as they make out. But will this actually materialise? Sure. Branson has done the maths. It may end up costing his investors a fortune but I reckon it's going to happen at some point and in some form, even if it's just for the prestige of being able to say they did it first.

author: dropkick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 10:44:00 pm
content: Nope. The California "high speed rail" project is a failed boondoggle already. Only a few tens of miles have been built in the middle of nowhere. Many of the physical routes have been changed from something sane and logical to just plain stupid so that certain travel time requirements in the government bids were met. I know of one town where they wanted to run it right down the middle of the town, killing dozens of businesses (some are manufacturing/processing and have EPA grandfathering and couldn't be moved elsewhere without going bankrupt due to idiotic regulations). This because putting it on the edge of town would add like 2 minutes. The train never has been "high-speed". The top speed is 85mph. It was just a conventional railroad. No new technology. And let’s not mention the various mountain ranges to cross or some of the largest earthquake faults in North America. How long would it take to repair an earthquake-caused break? Years? Regular tracks and roads can be measured in days. Or just fly over the problem!No one wants the people rail but the kickback-receiving politicians. The rest of us can just get on a plane. There isn't a huge demand for SF-LA traffic anyway. The airlines handle it just fine. And you can already take the train there if you really want to, mostly tourists and it's a much prettier view than the inside of a tube. Remember SF is 500+km away from LA. Most people from LA consider going to SF and northern California like traveling to another state. Las Vegas is 200km closer and that’s a trip in itself! It's not like a maglev trip 15 miles away to the other side of town for your daily commute. You’d still have to drive an hour in traffic to the airport/suckport/blowport, go thru security for another hour, etc There would just be no demand. The LA area already has two commuter train systems which are somewhat usable, but since the LA area is 1000+ sq. miles, if you don't live near it, it is completely useless. It’s not like the NY subway where everything is crammed onto the tip of an island. (There are buses of course which not that many people use and are completely subsidized by the government.) So where is the suckport going to be? Probably nowhere convenient for 95% of people. The 5 or so major airports are much closer if you really need to go to SF and visit the poop and needle filled streets!

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 01:31:11 am
content: Do the math on California height speed rail. What is the current projected cost to complete the project? Take that number and decide that by the number of legal and illegal citizens in the state. With Southwest and other airlines charging $100 for a flight from Oakland to Las Angles how many train tips will each illegal and legal citizen have to take to pay for the silly rail project? I think last time I made the calculation it was 2,000 trips. Then calculate the amount of time it would take every person to take that trip. They’ll be dead. The solution? Increase the cost of the high-speed rail ticket $10,000. People are going to pay that, right? $100 by air, and $10,000 by rail.Then we have to ask is rail earthquake proof like air traffic routes are? The rail line will have to cross over several earth quake faults. One of which in the past 200 years shifted the earth 20 feet sideways. Would sure hate to be on that train when an earthquake happens and there’s a new curve in the tack and 20 feet of it is missing.And look at the other advantage of high speed rail. The time savings. High speed rail would take 4 - 4.5 travel time. Airplane 45 minutes plus 1 hour for TSA unless you are TSA Pre. Then it’s 15 minutes. In just over 2 hours from Oakland I can be at anyone of 5 So Cal airports by air. Or in 4.5 hours I can arrive in LA and take an Uber for another hour to get to one of the other airports. Total travel time is now 5.5 hours by high speed rail. But now lets factor in an hour to drive to the train station. High speed rail is now 6.5 hours. That’s longer than it would take me to drive.Yup, I can see why everyone who doesn’t have a brain is in favor of high speed rail.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 01:45:06 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 18, 2020, 01:31:11 amIt's a crap which turned several times more expensive that planned (even then it would be a very expensive shit) due to poor execution and uncontrolled hiring of money sucking consultants for which the main objective was sucking even more money. It's estimated to cost around $80 billion in total if finished. However your numbers are way off. CA population is 39.5 million, if you multiply it by $100 x 2000 it would be $7,9 trillion. Even if it was $10 per ticket, it still would be $790 billion.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 02:18:55 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 18, 2020, 01:45:06 amYeah, but you got my point.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 07:28:25 am
content: You're throwing in artificial constraints. Who said all passengers have to be residents of the state? Who said you can't make money on cargo runs? Outside of the current COVID conditions, a great deal of travel is done by tourists, both foreign and domestic.That said, I agree that the issues for new high speed transport options are economic and political. If those ever get solved, none of the technical issues are showstoppers.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 08:04:44 am
content: QuoteNot for much longer. Turns out1% of people cause half of aviation emissionsand the US is way out in front of everyone else for making the atmosphere smelly. Surely can't be long before flights are reduced, either because they'll be the pollution low-hanging fruit, or the airlines have gone bust because of everyone working from home, etc.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 08:11:42 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on November 18, 2020, 08:04:44 am?

author: dropkick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 07:26:24 pm
content: No artificial contraints. We already have a rail line up the coast which is what the tourists use/want. Tourists are not going to sit in a dark tube. Actually there would probably be continous advertisments shown in place of windows! "Brought to you by Carl's Jr."We already have plenty of rail lines for cargo from all our ports. How do you think all the junk from China gets into the rest of the U.S.?This is simply a pipe dream. Even if it was finished, it's not high speed rail. Never has been or will be, other than words on paper. 20 years ago everyone was dreaming of a maglev from LA to Vegas. That never happened either! It might have seen more use than an SF route, but we'd still be paying for it today and for another 20 years.Long distance trains are for cargo, not people. I think we figured that out in the last century.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 07:52:51 pm
content: Why would anyone taker high speed rail from Sf to LA when they can do it on a MegaBus in the nearly the same amount of time? Or drive? Then you don’t have to rent a car in LA.Why on earth would cargo be sent on high speed rail when traditional rail would get in there a few hours later. If the cargo needs to get there fast it would be sent like it is now by plane or courier.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 09:02:51 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 18, 2020, 08:11:42 ams/smelly/pollutedalthough to be fair CO2doesn't smell that much.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 09:07:55 pm
content: QuoteSure they will, at least until it becomes 'normal' and no longer a brownie-point selfie background.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 11:23:33 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 18, 2020, 07:52:51 pmAt least do the research before you say these things. Driving time: 6 hours 16 minutes. Megabus: Doesn't serve SF. Other Bus times: 8-12 hours. Train time: 10 hours 35 minutes average. Flight time 1 hour 29 minutes, plus an hour or more at the airport. Proposed high-speed rail time: under 2 hours 40 minutes, which would compete directly with air travel.If the option existed at a reasonable price, I'd use it if I wanted to make that trip. Cars and parking aren't necessarily needed at either end, as both LA and SF have mass transit options. Heck, riding the SF cable cars is something everyone should do at least once. Functional slice of history!

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2020, 03:29:01 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on November 18, 2020, 11:23:33 pmDude where are you getting your times? I was regularly flying from OAK to LA, that flight is 45 minutes. San Diego and Portland are 1:30. There are many people from SF who have taken MeagBus from SF to LA. Yes it doesn’t depart from SF, but that doesn’t present people in SF from taking it.How the heck is the high speed train going to take only 2:40? No way. That is not what they are saying.How the heck are you coming up with those crazy drive time? Are you driving at “normal” I5 traffic speed? Or are you driving at 55? It’s not unheard of to make that trip in just over 4 hours by car.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2020, 07:32:38 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 19, 2020, 03:29:01 amSan Francisco to Los Angeles is about 400 miles via I-5 (the fastest route). You would have to average 100 MPH to make that trip in 4 hours. And you probably can't average more than 60 MPH for the first and last 50 miles of that trip (where the speed limits are 55 MPH and get lots of traffic). The speed limit is 70 MPH for the middle portion of that trip, but 80 MPH is a fairly common actual speed.So "just over four hours"I don't think so, and I've driven that route many times.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2020, 08:23:36 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 19, 2020, 03:29:01 amGoogle, of course. I did SFO-LAX (1:29 gate to gate, 56 mins in the air) instead of OAK-LAX (1:12 gate to gate, 56 min in the air). Clearly the difference is in ground waits and taxi times. Add having to arrive 90 minutes before departure time to be safe.Megabus: their route map only shows the Los Angelas-Riverside-Las Vegas route running in California. If they had an SF run, that must have been before Covid and taken at least 7 hours.https://us.megabus.com/journey-planner/mapHigh speed rail time:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#Speed_requirementsDriving time: Googles driving time estimate. As the previous responder said, 4 hours doesn't pass the math check unless you aren't measuring from central SF to central LA, or drive way above the speed limit. Interestingly enough, LA to SF is 6:29, while SF to LA is 5:59. I can only assume there's some construction on the northbound route right now.Most of this stuff was found on my very first search attempt...it's NOT hidden or hard to find if you bother to try at all.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 02:44:02 am
content: This is clearly something you have never actually done. There are times when I have been able to leave my house and fly and arrive in LA faster than I can drive from San Francisco to San Jose. Any idea what the average speed folks are diving at on California’s highways? Or on I5?In your Google Map “calculations” are you using the setting the shortest route? Fastest route? Or the route which allows you to speed the most?

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 03:16:34 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 20, 2020, 02:44:02 amI drive from Northern California to Northern Washington several times a month, round trip. Most of this is on I-5, with a posted speed limit of 70 MPH (or less). I generally push it up to 80 MPH, and very few cars pass me. The ones that do are occasionally spotted again, pulled over by the Highway Patrol, so most people stay within 10 MPH of the limit. For a while I was driving I-5 between San Jose and Los Angeles about once a month, and 80 MPH was again the magic number. What route and speed do *you* drive that gets you from SF to LA so quickly?Yes, airplanes are usually faster, and the hassle is minimized if you can use the small local airports. But SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, and the other big ones can be an ordeal and sometimes I would rather drive anyway.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 04:57:39 am
content: Quote from: fourfathom on November 20, 2020, 03:16:34 amIt must have been a while since you’ve been making that trip. Speeds are a bit higher now, and there are les tickets being given thanks to apps like Waze. It’s no uncommon for folks to be driving close to 100 and then there are the ones who have to be doing 110 - 120.Pre-covid I was waking up at 7:00 for an 8:15 flight to LAX. About 15 minutes to shower and get something to eat. Drive to the airport and parking was 25 mins. Just over an hour latter I was out of the airport at the curb waiting for Lyft.I’m not saying everyone I’d doing this, but to say it can’t be done or it’s not happening would not be correct either. When my co-workers drive to LA they are always talking about how “long” meaning how quickly they could get there. Just over 4 hours is not uncommon. I think best I have ever done is 5, I’m more careful about fuel economy and the environment.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 01:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on November 20, 2020, 04:57:39 amThat calls for $490+surcharge speeding fine and a point on your record if you get caught.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2020, 01:45:33 am
content: Like I said, you clearly aren't measuring from San Francisco, but from wherever you are in the rather gigantic bay area -- that's how you're shaving an hour off so easily. The "safe" level of speeding, which is about 80, by itself isn't enough. The BART train from OAK to downtown SF takes 40 minutes, and driving that route is closer to an hour with normal traffic.I had to giggle at "the best I've ever done is 5", while implying that 4 hours is typical. I'm going to say that googles 6 hour estimate from downtown SF to downtown SF isn't that far off. No fair counting wherever you are as downtown. How long does it take you to drive to Fishermans Wharf? Add that time to your SF to LA trip time.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2020, 06:11:56 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on November 21, 2020, 01:45:33 amDude are you on crack? Where are you getting these bogus times? BART train from OAK to downtown SF takes 40 minutes. I’ve been taking BART or years from the East Bay to San Francisco. It takes me 35 minutes to get from suburbs in Contra Costa County to Downtown San Francisco. My route takes me through Oakland and there are NO express trains which means I have to stop at all of the stations in Oakland on my route. The trip from Downtown Berkeley to San Francisco is also 27 minutes. Again this is making stops in Berkeley and Oakland to get to downtown San Francisco.It takes me 55 minutes to get front the suburbs in the East Bay to get to San Francisco airport. In making that trip the train stops at every statins on that route in Oakland, and San Francisco.The trip from downtown Oakland to downtown San Francisco is about 14 minutes. Heck in 40 minutes I could walk from Oakland to San Francisco.You have me puzzled by this one..... How can you get a ticket and a point on your driving record if there are no cops to pull you over?

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 01:05:52 pm
content: Sabine Hossenfelder did a  good video on Hyperloop recently.Similar concerns to my own:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/its-2020-sf-to-la-for-$25-on-elon-musks-hyperloop-are-you-buying-it/msg3327198/#msg3327198Physically viable concept if altered from the Elon Musk whitepaper but no one seems to be doing a "real" job of tackling the pertinent challenges.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 03:29:23 pm
content: It’s a 100 year old technology just being recycled.Anyone remember France’s Jet train? The tracks are still there. But what happed to the trains?Wait, it get better.https://youtu.be/RNFesa01llkAnd betterhttps://youtu.be/EeWcQf9QCmgAnd betterhttps://youtu.be/CQJgFh_e01ghttps://youtu.be/CQJgFh_e01g

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 03:31:54 pm
content: The new hyper-loop is Spin-launch.https://youtu.be/9ziGI0i9VbE

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 09:26:09 pm
content: Instead of posting thunderfoot rants, which have already been postedad nauseam and aren't terribly hard to find anyway, how about actually expressing your misgivings for these things. Then we can discuss the pros and cons like two (or more!) people, well, discussing things. The you're going on, we might as well decamp to youtube and just throw somebon motsor whatever at the comments section.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 09:43:10 pm
content: What are the pros and cons about discussing technology which violates the laws of physics? They are just con artists in the case of Elizebeth Holmes, and Trevor Milton. Elon on the other-hand who has a university degrees is either pulling of one of the biggest most expensive hoaxes of all time or is just delusional.What is there to discuss when someone says they have a technology which everyone knows violates the laws of physics. Do you really want to have a discussion the pros and cons of weather a perpetual motion machine is possible? We had better hope it is not possible…. If it were we would all burn up from all of that extra heat a perpetual motion machines would create.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 09:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on December 12, 2021, 09:43:10 pmExcept it does not violate any laws of physics. Otherwise existing proof of concept implementations would not exist. It certainly can be made. The question is if it makes sense to make it.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 10:00:46 pm
content: QuoteWell, the obvious one is you saying why you think it violates the laws of physics. Pointing to a video that says it does isn't a discussion (at least, not with you).So, what doyou, personally in your own mind, feel is wrong with either of these things?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 11:58:06 pm
content: There is already a thread on here for Spin Launch, please take discussion therehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/spinlaunch-can-it-succeed/

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 02:23:58 am
content: Small update, The Boring Company just made a twitter post.Quote from: @boringcompanyhttps://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1518615207035039745

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 12:11:39 pm
content: If one could spend $25 to travel between the two they would sell a lot of tickets..The options right now suck.But the Central Valley rail project has bogged down too.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 12:13:34 pm
content: Hype-loop is right..

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 03:41:05 pm
content: Can't wait to take the California High Speed Rail between Bakersfield, otherwise known as the arm pit of the Central Valley and Modesto where America Graffiti was filed which is now know for Meth, Death and Auto theft.As how been discussed many times the train crosses several earth quake faults. We are due for one soon.... What's going to happen when we have a quake and the ground shifts 10 - 20 feet as it has in the past. The train will be out of service for years. No such issue with a air travel.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 03:49:43 pm
content: QuoteAir travel is mega-polluting. Maybe the repair costs will be less than the environmental costs saved when the train was, and will be, running.Not everything has a simple hand-in-pocket up-front price to allow easy factoring, you know

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 04:02:55 pm
content: Oh air travel is so much worse when it comes to pollution.... It lowers people's IQ. Just as petrol used to power automobiles has been for nearly 100 years. But so does soldering.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 04:18:53 pm
content: How does soldering lower IQ?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 07:08:41 pm
content: In the 1990s the Bay Area was just seething withenterpreneurial typeswho WANTED YOUR MONEY and would pretty much SAY ANYTHING to get it.I remember this era well. It wasn't THAT long ago, remember.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 07:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on April 26, 2022, 04:18:53 pmSorry, thought it was obvious. Solder used in electronic for nearly more than a century contained lead. Working with the solder your being exposed to lead.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 10:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on April 26, 2022, 04:18:53 pmUnless you are eating it, inhaling a vapor form of it, or you don't wash your hands after use before eating, or rubbing your eyes, it probably wont affect you.Improper disposal can release it into the environment in unpredictable ways which can lead to the above problems with contamination. IE: Children biting on toys containing paint made with lead.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 01:29:36 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on April 26, 2022, 10:59:07 pmNo disagreement with what you are saying in theory, and then there's what people really do. It does have to be ingested and the most common way is not washing hands or in a multi-step process where when one is soldering wiping ones face or touching a coffee cup/glass of water.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 01:59:26 am
content: its vaporware or an investment scam.parts of the Hyperloop technology do work however for the most part it is soinfrastructure intensive in use of both land and materials as to make any benefits non existent when compared with aviation.IMO environmental costs of air travel are exaggerated by some to the point of insanity.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 02:20:17 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on April 27, 2022, 01:59:26 amAviation fuel still contains lead. Did you see the video? It's as bad if not worse than radioactive waste pollution.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 02:44:45 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on April 27, 2022, 02:20:17 amUh.https://ijet.aero/ijet-blog/different-types-aviation-fuel-jet-fuelAFAIK, only AVGAS contains lead (for the same reasons gas for cars contained lead, but obviously the aviation industry has been a lot more reluctant to switch to lead-free fuel due to reliability reasons.)AFAIK, AVGAS is only used for piston engines, so basically the small aircrafts, which considering the total amount of fuel consumed, must be a pretty small fraction worldwide these days. Jet fuel doesn't contain lead as far as I can tell, and (although I don't have figures right now) is probably the number one fuel used for aviation in terms of volume.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 04:41:23 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on April 27, 2022, 02:20:17 amYou do realize that almost nobody actually watches the video links posted? If it's not worth an extra minute of your time to summarize it, it means even you think it isn't important enough to watch. You're just using it as a crutch for your what-about-that argument where you make a clearly ridiculous and untrue statement to hijack the thread into something that has nothing to do with the threads topic.

author: DougSpindler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 09:20:49 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 27, 2022, 04:41:23 amConsidering more people watch the video then read the posts I’m not surprised. What’s discussed in the video is related to my original post about Elon’s Hyperloop.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 09:45:50 am
content: Quote from: DougSpindler on April 27, 2022, 09:20:49 amIn what way?Help us help you, Doug.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 11:14:48 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 27, 2022, 02:44:45 amExactly, while avgas contains lead, that is not exactly the most widely used aircraft fuel; it's only for piston engines, so historic planes and small private planes. Jets use kerosene or naptha based fuel, and though there are additives for various purposes, none of them contain lead.As far as soldering is concerned, wash your hands afterwards! There is no lead in flux fumes, that's an "urban myth", soldering doesn't get hot enough to vapourise lead.