Extream noob loocking for oscilloscope (RPi / Arduino projects) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 10:17:02 am
content: I'm looking for a good Oscilloscope that I can start learning on, and I want it to be good enough so I can keep using for years to come.From local shops in Norway with warranty:Tektronix TBS1052BUNI-T UTD2025CLAgilent DSO1072BAgilent DSO1052BISO-TECH IDS6052-UISO-TECH IDS6072A-UFrom AliExpress:Hantek DSO5072PSIGLENT SDS1072CMLRIGOL DS1052EThose are the options I have found so far, but please let me know if I need a more expensive oscilloscope for the projects I intend to use it for.But Im also open for PC oscilloscopes:PICOSCOPE 2206or anyother sub 400$ modelI have 2 current projects - one is Raspberry Pi with stepper motors and MCP23008 / MCP23017 and the second one is Arduino with rotary encoders (based on 74HC4067). For both I want oscilloscope for testing and debugging. I have extremely limited knowledge of electronics and I just need tools to get me by, easy to use and "just works". But as a software engineer Im not afraid of firmware upgrades/hacks - but I would like to avoid to mess with internals.I have for a past month browsed this forum, looked on all kinds of reviews and just getting crazy from all the info.Would greatly appreciate any advice!

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 11:31:31 am
content: I would not recommend to buy from AliExpress. Maybe it was an exception, but I tried it once and I didn't get the goods, and no refund from AliExpress either, needed to write to the credit card company to do the refund. Official resellers with warranty etc. is the best, but eBay works, too, PayPal has a good buyer protection.The scope depends on what you plan to do. For Arduino projects, rotary encodes etc. any scope you listed will do it. I like my Agilent scope, because of the nice GUI and good quality, but usually Rigol is less expensive for the same. If you really plan to do more in future, buy at least a scope with thousands of waveform updates per second, like a Rigol DS2xxx. It helps a lot for debugging, because you see more of the signal. Cheap scopes don't have this feature (IIRC the Rigol DS1xxx doesn't have it), so it captures signals with the screen update rate of 60 Hz. This means if you have a fast PWM signal, with maybe one error each 1,000 cycles, you don't see it on such scopes. With thousands or even million of waveforms per second update rate, you'll see the fault clearly.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 11:47:23 am
content: Quote from: gcardinal on April 04, 2014, 10:17:02 amNo, you don't, they will be fine.Forget the Tek, it's ancient. And forget the Agilent, it's just rebadged Rigol.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pm
content: I had a TDS2002 for some years and it was nice for my basic hobby usage back then, but the low memory size was always a problem. The zoom capabilities of modern scopes help a lot and makes troubleshooting faster.BTW: once I used a high-end Tektronix scope at a client (don't remember the model, but with 10 GHz bandwidth or something like that, and cost of a small house) and the user interface was very non-intuitive, unlike my TDS2002. Even the engineers which needed it more often for high speed signals (I'm just a programmer with some electronics knowledge and happy when I can measure some I2C signals), preferred the small Agilent for all other tasks.

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 12:18:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2014, 11:47:23 amOk thanks! How about PicoScope 2206A? I always work in front of my PC - is it a bad idea to start on PC oscilloscope? For me as programmer i2c is very interesting. Or would you still recommend going for standalone scope to start with? I have watched "EEVblog #13 Part 2 of 2 - Comparison of PC Based Oscilloscopes" - but video is a few years old and I wonder if situation is better now with PicoScope'sQuote from: FrankBuss on April 04, 2014, 11:31:31 amI would like something like Rigol DS2072 or DS1074Z-S and I can push mu budget a bit - but it feels like a bit overkill for a first scope - or is it really worth putting in extra cash?

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 12:45:01 pm
content: I would recommend a standalone scope. Picoscopes are nice for the occasional usage. I had one, too (I wrote a manualhow to use it on Mac), but when I got my Agilent, I gave it away, because unless they sell it with an external knob-box, it is too clumsy to use for everyday work.For I2C and other slow serial signals, you can use any scope. But the DS2072 has an I2C decoder and trigger feature integrated, which helps debugging bigger systems and is good for lazy programmers like mebecause you don't have to decode it manually, which I didn't like to do with my old Tek.But it really depends what you plan to do. If you just want to play a bit with Arduino and maybe in a year you don't do any electronics anymore, you would have spent too much money for the more expensive Rigol. And even a cheap Rigol DS1xxx is a good scope and you can do a lot with it, just not as comfortable as with the more expensive ones.

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 01:05:09 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on April 04, 2014, 12:45:01 pmThank you, very good points. But DS2072A costs 1000$ - that is the price of lets say RIGOL DS1052E / SIGLENT SDS1072CML / Hantek DSO5072P and PICOSCOPE 2206 - would you recommend going for just DS2072A or a solution with bench scope and pc scope package would result in more bang for the buck?..Edit: Alternative RIGOL DS1074Z and wait for a I2C enabling hack (I guess it is the same procedure as on other linux-based scope hacks). Its only 661$ atm.Really appreciate all the answers!

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 01:28:57 pm
content: whats your budget?

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 01:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: electronics man on April 04, 2014, 01:28:57 pmFrom RS-Online, Farnell / element14 and Elfa its 600-700$From AliExpress, eBay, Amazon etc its 400$Difference is due to taxes and benefits with local warranty.But I can push it to 1000$ if there is a clear benefits and its a better long term investment.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 01:50:23 pm
content: Multiple cheap scopes doesn't make much sense, if you don't have special applications in mind, e.g. a small portable scope like the Picoscope and a benchtop scope for home. One good scope with at least 2 channels (and maybe another trigger input for things like SPI), is better. If you can spend the money and if you are sure you want to do more with electronics, buy the DS2072, you will be happier with it. If you are not sure and just want to do some electronics as a hobby every some weekends, maybe buy a cheaper scope, as Dave recommended, it might be sufficient for all what you need for some years. And maybe in some years a DS2072 type scope will cost the same as nowadays a DS1074, when you need a better scope, and then you'll know better which scope you need.I prefer benchtop scopes, because of the faster response time and screen update, and the easier usage with the knobs: Zoom, pan, set trigger level/voltage/time base etc., much faster than with a mouse.

author: Suffer1981de
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 02:07:12 pm
content: How about a DS1074Z. It works wonders for me, especially after it has been "upgraded" ;-) I think it's a good benchtop oscilloscope for beginners.http://www.venotek.no/display.aspx?menuid=40002&prodid=5135Venotek is distributor of Rigol so I guess they can order it for you. Price for Germany is 535 Euro so about 4393,81 NOK.Greetings from GermanyEdith says: If you need help "upgrading" this oscilloscope, just msg me, I'll gladly help.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 02:28:59 pm
content: I would consider not just the scope but the entire bench. Spending a thousand bucks is fine but not at the expense of the bench.I have the Siglent above and it has served me well for more than 3 years. To be fair it's not my only scope and I also have much better ones. Even so a good basic dso, I think many basic dso's serve a purpose even when you buy a better one. I still use my Siglent daily and have no issues with it.Do you have a couple multimeters, power supply, hot air gun, esr meter signal generator, logic analyzer, parts?

author: pallisi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 03:08:56 pm
content: I am at the same situation, involved with some induction motor drive electronics (inverters etc). I am trying to set my lab up too. I have just purchased a Rigol DS 1074, and before that I have tried a TEK tps 2022 which I have found insufficient. One of my colleagues is using a PICO but he also finds that the lack of external controls is a big trouble.

author: Xaero1982
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 08:24:05 pm
content: I bought a Rigol 1074Z fromwww.batterfly.coma few months ago for 450€ shipped to Norway.Of course you have to pay 25% tax on arrival, but the offer I got from Venotek was about 580€ plus shipping and tax.

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 12:40:13 pm
content: Quote from: Xaero1982 on April 04, 2014, 08:24:05 pmThank you for a great advice, Xaero1982! That is really a great source for bench gear, specially with free shipping over 400€Quote from: pickle9000 on April 04, 2014, 02:28:59 pmatm I have: Hakko FX-888D, Amprobe AM-510, Manson HCS-3302-USB, Steinel HL 2010 E, but Im missing ESR meter, signal generator and logic analyzer indeed.But for the moment I will skip on ESR, signal generator og logic analyzer. Most likely I will get a logic analyzer in near feature - but I feel like I need to get comfortable with oscilloscope first. Same goes for signal generator.Quote from: Suffer1981de on April 04, 2014, 02:07:12 pmYour advice really put me in a struggle between DS1074Z and DS2072Aand thx for the "upgrade" tip, will keep it in mind!Quote from: FrankBuss on April 04, 2014, 01:50:23 pmThanks for the advice, I will go for either DS1074Z or DS2072A. A bit unsure on which one to pick - Im kinda aiming for DS2072A since Im pretty sure I will get a logic analyzer and with that in mind, benefits of 4 channels and SPI slave / master decoding won’t be that big selling point anymore.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 01:18:23 pm
content: the ds1074z is a bit cheaper than the ds2072 so you can save/spend elsewhere.also, on a single channel, it's useable bandwidth is a bit higher than the 70mhz marketed.the way i see it, if you need 200mhz, you can get away with a bit less, but if you need 3-4 channels, you can't really view a degraded version of the signal by sharing the other channel...

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 03:39:53 pm
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on April 06, 2014, 01:18:23 pmThat is a good point indeed, and for the money I can get RIGOL DS1074Z-S and have a small signal generator to learn with.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 04:03:18 am
content: I have the Rigol DS1052E, and I doubt there is a better DSO for the money. For what you stated you want it for, 50Mhz is plenty (also can be "upgraded"), and keep your money regarding the signal gen and logic analyser (in a production environment as an embedded/digital electronics engineer, I have never wished I had one). You can do everything you need with just the DSO. 2 channels is usually fine, sometimes 4 channels is nice.I am happy to use this DSO, despite having access to 4 channel Tek and a 4 channel GW Instek. Seriously, it is fine. Save your money. I don't know what another poster was talking about about only sampling at 60hz, but this is rubbish. The Rigol 1052E samples at 1Gs/sec, so set your trigger and see the waveform, every time. Maybe he meant screen refresh rate....I2C functions and all that are great after you have the code working, so I don't think they are much help unless you do I2C every day and need it decoded.