DIY PCB, inkjet printers and paper - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: oliver602
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2011, 02:55:54 am
content: I've made a few PCB's using toner transfer (generally not so successful) and printing on tracing paper for use with pre sensitised boards (worked a lot better) using a laser printer.Trouble is, the laser printer is VERY old and id like to start using my inkjet if possible to save space and cost of a new laser.I have a HP Officejet 8000, a workgroup printer that uses pigment inks. I have tried some inkjet transparencys. The track edges are super sharp and great contrast but the ink tends to bead up or fill in drill holes on larger tracks and never dries. Selecting plain paper and photo paper in the printer options gives other bad results.Has anybody had success with using pigment inkjets? What brand/type of film to you print on?

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 03:54:11 pm
content: I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but toner transfer only works with laser printers...Inkjets don't use toner, they use ink.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 04:47:19 pm
content: Or you could do what the commercial world does, and use UV presensitised PCBs? A halogen lamp or the sun (or UV LEDs) are perfectly good light sources, and the resolution they give is much better than toner transfer.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 04:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: oliver602 on November 01, 2011, 02:55:54 amQuote from: MikeK on November 05, 2011, 03:54:11 pmQuote from: Zad on November 05, 2011, 04:47:19 pmI can't help, but there appears to be a certain failure of reading comprehension going on.Are there special transparency sheets for inkjet printers? Possibly HP sell particular sheets recommended for their inks? Also, I understand you do not need to use actual transparencies for UV exposure. You can use thin translucent paper like tracing paper or technical drawing paper/film.

author: oliver602
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 05:24:13 pm
content: I've got an old laser printer which I have used for the toner transfer method. I got working boards but its hard to get consistent results and fine tracks.I have a DIY UV exposure box and I have used the laser to print the image on tracing paper. But it's a very old printer and the black ins't very opaque. While I can get pretty nice boards, there is still a fair element of chance in it working right. Not enough contrast. I use presensitised boards.I also have a inkjet printer which uses pigment inks and puts out really nice blacks. I have printed on inkjet transparencies and the black is virtually opaque. Trouble is, it doesn't dry! It prints fine tracks perfectly and the edges are super sharp. Struggles with larger copper areas though.Anybody else uses the Officejet 8000 or other pigment ink printer for making PCBs?(EDIT) Thanks IanB. HP transparencies are a stupid price. I have some inkjet transparencies but they don't work with my printer. I suspect its to do with the fact that most inkjets use a dye based ink. But the officejet 8000 uses pigment inks.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 07:48:00 pm
content: You may find some ideas here:http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 03:30:35 am
content: I would try the vellum. I know that's what stamp makers use day in and day out with laser printers. I'm not sure the solid inks will dry on it or what kind of porosity they expect (vellum is coated to not absorb drafting inks, but may have enough "bite" to keep the solids from pooling). Just remember to print reversed so you're laying the printed side against the photosensitive material to get the sharpest image.

author: oliver602
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 01:58:20 am
content: May just have to stick with a laser printer.Can anyone recommend a HP laser printer with very good contrast? Cheaper the better, cost per page isn't important. Asking for HP because they make good quality Linux drivers. Don't know any other manufacturers that make their own Linux drivers.What printer do you use for pcb work?

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 02:42:38 am
content: I don't know HP lasers, but I would recommend getting one that does post script and has a post script driver. AFAIK, they handle vector files much more exactly than a non post script printer can. What that translates to is that a line at any angle should print clearly and without jagged edges.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 04:09:05 am
content: I have used the self adhesive inkjet white photo film from these people. The ink gets totally absorbed into the film and dries nicely. Others I have tried the ink dried but you could see the ink sitting on top. You would need to use one of their clear productspossiblythe clear static cling film. If you use this you would probably want to put the print side against the board because the film is 10 mil thick. (need to print a mirror image of the artwork)main sitehttp://www.papilio.com/index.htmlstatic clinghttp://www.papilio.com/inkjet%20static%20cling%20film%20media.html

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 08:44:38 am
content: At the low end I have had several HP printers that were absolutely terrible mechanically -- completely unreliable. That was a few years ago, and maybe they are better now, but I stay away from them. Brother seems to be a good choice at the low end. I have a HL-2150N. It is cheap, network attached, and its linux drivers work great.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 08:57:28 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 28, 2011, 08:44:38 amI have moved away from HP as well. Their printers are... well not very good and their software is SOOOO bloated - typical Multi Function printer/fax/scanner - the software eats about 800MB+ and then about 200MB RAM resident...I switched to Brother MFC-9440CN and it is nice. Software about 50MB with 20MB resident. And the best thing is - it is 100% silent when not printing. FAN turns OFF. HP could learn a lot from that. I have had it now for about 4 years and not a problem - and printed about 15.000 pages.

author: oliver602
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 11:31:58 pm
content: I had a look at the brother printer and I like it. However, I have since found some suitable transparencies. (A laser would be useful to have but I don't have the room for it) megauk.com sent me a sample of their Jetstar Premium inkjet film and it works great. Not as opaque as i was hoping for but far better than what i got from my old laser. Need to print in high resolution photo mode because the HP's paper feed is less than perfect in normal or transparency mode ....

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 12:44:09 am
content: I have two hp laserjet 6mp. They are probably at least 10-15 years old. They print as sharp and opaque as it gets. Never have problems with jamming,etc... Without a doubt the best printer I have owned. When I print letters and whatnot on my inkjet it doesn't even compare to the clarity and readability of the laser. Have not attempted making a pcb with its output though.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 01:17:03 am
content: As for HP printers, I have been using the HP LaserJet 1020 for at least 5 years. It prints super sharp text and graphics, as long as they are not grayscale. It works best for bitmaps Since PCBs are not grayscale, they look awesomely sharp. The only problem is Linux drivers. There is a way around it, but it involves modifying some system files so you can run a shell script at the startup. This is for downloading the firmware into the printer every time it's turned on.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 08:30:36 am
content: Quote from: oliver602 on November 28, 2011, 01:58:20 amOlder and slower laser printers generally tend to be better and achieve greater contrast. I am using old HP4L printer (from 1994, iirc) and print on Avery Zweckform E-3491 matte plastic transparencies (http://www.avery-zweckform-fachshop.de/3491-Folie-transparent-matt-beschichtet-ar445.aspx)You can achieve superb contrast if you expose your printed film to some solvent vapours. I usually use ethyl acetate or nitro paint thinner. Those vapours dissolve toner and make it very homogenous and non-transparent.