Will painting respirators protect one from the COVID-19 virus? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: engineheat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 12:10:36 am
content: Like this:I would seem since it can offer anairtightseal, and it has a particle filter, it should be at least as effective than those surgical or even N95 masks right?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 02:20:07 am
content: If you have a beard like me NO. If you fit it with the incorrect cartridges NO. If you get an Aerosoled droplet land on you or your clothing also most likely NO unless you wash and disinfect properly.That said fit it with an N95 grade cartridge (if you can find them for sale) and keep the mask body sanitized then it will 'help'.Page 12https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/565214O/3m-cartridge-filter-guide-and-brochure.pdfThe reason surgical ones are disposable is no risk from poor sterilization or cross contamination.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 04:00:25 am
content: If you can assume you aren't infected (e.g. you live isolated anyways), a valve is fine.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 07:08:33 am
content: Quote from: KaneTW on March 20, 2020, 04:00:25 amIf you live isolated anyways, no mask at all is fine.I agree with blueskull, valved masks mark the wearer as anassholeegotist.

author: Illusionist
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 08:05:12 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 20, 2020, 07:08:33 am...or as someone using the only masks they have (because they bought a box full ages ago for DIY) because there are no masks whatsoever available for sale anywhere.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 08:15:18 am
content: Quote from: Illusionist on March 20, 2020, 08:05:12 amIf we take the OP's comment of a Particle filter being fitted then you may as well make one from Toilet Paper (also assuming you can buy some). There are still plenty of Particulate masks available in cartridge and disposable in my part of the world but they are of little to no use.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 09:01:56 am
content: Don't waste your money, nothing can stop it from entering your skin, ears, private parts..you'll breathe easier and better buying stocks in toilet paper manufacturing companiesIdiots will be hoarding for at least another 6 months, perhaps 6 years if thepanic showsituation mutates into a global Palmdemic

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 09:27:53 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 20, 2020, 09:01:56 amYou might want to read up on transmission pathways.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 10:03:42 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 20, 2020, 09:27:53 amDon't need to, if it's the real deal, no over the counter respirator will keep out the dreadedcamrycorona virus

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 03:07:58 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 20, 2020, 07:08:33 amYou still need to go out for important errands once or twice a week. Yes, the infection risk in that case isn't that high with proper practices. But if you're e.g. in the 10%+ lethality risk group, better be safe than sorry.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 04:16:51 pm
content: You don't have to worry about individual, dry virons floating around. The biggest risk are aerosols from infected people sneezing, coughing and speaking. Those are filtered out just fine by regular FFP2 and FFP3 masks. Also, reducing the "viral load" by any amount directly reduces your infection risk.I get why it's propagated that any form of PPE is totally ineffective against viruses, as this prevents the general population from buying out the market, but still, takefor what it really is.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 04:29:00 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on March 20, 2020, 04:16:51 pmAgree with this. Although not 100% effective, anything just objectively lowering the load reduces the risk, so it's certainly NOT useless at all.AS you just said, many countries just can't provide the necessary amount of masks if everyone was buying them anyway - so it's convenient to just say it's ineffective and confine people.The truth is that those masks are basically reserved for medical staffs (which makes sense), since we just don't have enough for everyone. But if medical staffs wear them, you can probably assume that they are somewhat effective...Some asian countries, like South Korea, have things to teach us. They are used to this, people are used to wearing masks (which we all tended to find funny outside of Asia), and they are doing well even in this exceptional case. There was no strict confinement there as far as I know. I have have witnessing of people living there and apart from slightly less people in the streets and almost all wearing masks, they are basically doing business as usual. Meanwhile, we here keep debating about everything and we are currently doing a lot worse. Probably time to get more humble maybe and start producing protection devices as much as we can.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 04:39:40 pm
content: As to the above paint masks, I would also say this is a very bad idea. Just stick to FFP2 masks.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 04:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2020, 04:39:40 pmIf you can get them. (Which is certainly not the case over here.) I took the question about paint masks to mean: "Can you use these as a workaround?"

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 05:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 20, 2020, 04:59:55 pmI know availability is a huge issue in many countries.Anyway, I'd tend to think as I said above that those paint masks if effective would probably not be for very long, and then they'd start being a hazard, as you can't just dispose of them entirely (too expensive.)

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 05:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: engineheat on March 20, 2020, 12:10:36 amyes (with the proper filters) as soon as you do not touch your eyes or somebody doesn't cough or sneeze near yourthere are also full face masksbut unless you already have one I would leave that to people working in the health system that currently, in most countries, are in desperate need of protection devices

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 05:12:36 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 20, 2020, 09:01:56 amthere on the moon it might not yet be a pandemic here on the earth it is already soand certified respiratory devices do protect you against the virus although the best is just getting out as little as possible and staying several meters away from other people in order to reduce as much as possible viral load (when present)

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 05:27:03 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 20, 2020, 07:08:33 amYou have a family to take care of, you are the only person they can count on. You can wear a valved mask and protect yourself or you can be a fake morality guy and not wear a valved mask and not protect yourself and have your family a risk to lose you.Your choice?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 05:33:36 pm
content: Agreed... (the only point I'm weary of is as I said what happens after the mask has been exposed to some viral charge, how do you manage this? With a disposable mask, you just throw it away...)

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 06:28:57 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on March 20, 2020, 05:27:03 pmI have to grant you that, you always stay true to yourself.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 07:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2020, 04:39:40 pmLooks like painting masks are at least P95 rated = same as N95 or FFP2 but with oil resistance.If you have the luxury of selection you really want FFP3, P100 or N100.Silicone rubber facepiece seals lot better than single-use mask/respirator but as mentioned keeping the rubber facepiece kosher is another matter.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 07:53:12 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2020, 05:33:36 pmPut on before you encounter contaminated areas and take off only after you have enough time to disinfect it before next use. Overnight in +70cel sauna or electric oven should take care of even most stubborn coronaviruses.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 08:01:32 pm
content: Quote from: mzzj on March 20, 2020, 07:53:12 pmOK... can these masks take the 70°C punishment without getting damaged though?

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 08:18:32 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2020, 08:01:32 pm"probably"I wouldn't worry about the mask itself, filter element is bigger question but I'm fairly confident that mild heat is the best option compared to others (steaming, boiling, gamma ray, soaking in alcohol)Just my 0.01cents. In case I happen to be wrong I'll offer my condolences and 100% money-back refund.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 09:58:38 pm
content: Any cheap and serious masks I have are for real breathing hazards, like painting, plaster dust, yard/garden blowouts, compressed air tool stink, welding and soldering up close etc etcand let's not forget eye and ear protection in on the deal tooAnything beyond that calls for a proper self contained breathing rig coupled to a hazardous waste outfit, or NASA astro suit, END OF STORY, to keep real nastiesand aliensout.I'm not fooling myself to believe if I walk around with a mask like all the clueless idiots I see breathing back their own moist exhales+that it's going to keep out any real deal virus that will seep into a body one way or the other, sooner or later,or NEVER at all if this turns out to be yet ANOTHER global panic bandwagon resulting in financially shafting battling families and struggling businesses even more.Time will tell either way, and the clock is ticking..in the meantime, if I need to protect my airways from the occasional black smoke belching car, truck or bus, or billowing high risedog boxapartment construction dust,a pocketed tissue, hanky or clean rag is a good enough short term PROVEN fix, cheap and portableand good enough to play the corona game too, whilst watching sickening hoarders empty the shelves, keeping a straight 'normal shopper' face= (expletive) idiots

author: engineheat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 12:58:46 am
content: Quote from: mzzj on March 20, 2020, 07:49:29 pmThe thing that really appeals to me is that the silicone facepiece offers better seal. Can't they be disinfected with alcohol?I mean, those N95 dust masks are way too expensive and hard to get to treat them as disposables. I only have like 5.

author: engineheat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 01:01:05 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2020, 05:33:36 pmMost people don't have 100 masks sitting around to be throwing them away after each errand. Can't you wash them or spray with alcohol?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 01:43:38 am
content: Anyone else looked at the title of the thread and wondered "painting them withwhat?"

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 02:00:54 am
content: Quote from: engineheat on March 21, 2020, 01:01:05 amSpraying the surface of a porous item won't work if there is contaminants in the weave of the filter itself. So your Cartridges if you plan on using them will need proper sterilization to kill off any bugs generally heat would be the only appropriate method.The box below is some I brought early in the year for woodworking leaving my 3M cartridge mask just for painting. They are out of date medical masks ($0.11 each).https://www.bsnmedical.com.au/products/wound-care-vascular/category-product-search/masks/non-fluid-resistant/proshieldr-resistant.htmlThey are shown as non fluid resistant so washing them is likely a no go too but some available are fluid resistant. Looking at the weave the material will be a non woven rather than paper so it will survive some fluid splash but unlikely to survive 'washing'.No I won't be wearing them when out shopping or reselling them on evilbay to make a $

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 03:52:44 am
content: Save your cash onplacebomasks and spend it on dunny paper instead.Apparently it has hidden magical properties that many mere mortals into electronics are not aware of, yetas well as filtering out corona from entering the nether regions if a few layers are strategically jammed in.Billions of loo roll hoarders can't be wrong

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 04:35:41 am
content: I am not sure why some are piling on reusable respirators. The medical community is currently considering the issues, standards and procedures for their use, as they have some distinct advantages over disposable face masks, and some challenges.The report "Reusable Elastomeric Respirators in Health Care – Considerations for Routine and Surge Use" reviews where things stood as of 2017/2019.QuoteChapter 4, Research and Development,reviews their cleaning and disinfection.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:06:49 am
content: To selectively quote a report on a proposal in support of their use isn't being fair to the reality. There is good reasons not to use them unless you can clean them properly and sanitize them. The typical home user isn't going to be geared up for the cleaning steps so disposable will remain the sensible non medical use alternate. The internal crevices and lips in my 3M mask for example would be very had to get to without full immersion or appropriate heat sanitization which will likely have other issues with some of the plastic parts.What a fully staffed and well set up hospital does is really outside the scope for individuals.Quote

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:24:53 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 20, 2020, 02:26:18 amThe mask is acting like a unidirectional TVS diode in series with current limiting resistor, with leakage resistance across the entire circuit.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:34:13 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2020, 05:33:36 pmyou can clean the mask, with IPA, remove the filters and leave them in an IPA bath for few minutes (according to the tests 30 seconds are enough to kill the virus) and then let them dry overnightthe same can be done with disposable devices since they are difficult to find now and it is better to re-use them rather than going out without (I tested that on the last FPP3 mask I have from a stock I bought one year ago just for air pollution)BTW in English those, FFP* are not called "mask"... may be respirator ... I can't remember the correct term nowcorrectionthe manufacturer usually provides proper instructions for cleaning, e.g. a solution of Sodium hypochlorite (3M)it's better to just check the manufacturer site for that piece of information

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 11:05:13 pm
content: Yet another corona IDIOT moment viewed 'LIVE' in actionyesterday at Bunningsat the back of the Tool Shop where they keep the PPE stuff.A 'person' (customer) was on the phone chatting with a similar sounding 'person' about what mask/respirators were available for coronaThink about it for a moment: the 'person' on the phone was in Bunnings, with a mixed assortment of people around,with lots of airborne dust EVERYWHERE, as you get with an open door big box hardware store,that 'person' had no mask on, yet buying for someone else, and to meet up and deliver it to them laterI mean seriously.. if there was something virus-ey floating about in the store, or entire suburb,wtf did they achieve wasting time, petrol and a phone call,to buy a mask for someone else in another location, and doing all that UNMASKED =+And no, I wasn't there to buy a silly mask for corona purposes, nor 'borrow' a loo roll from the Bunning's dunnyJust a normal calm customer, popping in to see LED replacement globe options, grab a cutoff disc or two, drill bit etcand a quick perv at the tools

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 08:23:42 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 21, 2020, 11:05:13 pmWhat's wrong with that? A young and healthy person doing the shopping for an elderly, high-risk person -- and buying a couple of masks for them, in case theyhaveto leave home at some point (say for a doctor's visit)?And yes, you can physically hand over goods without running the risk of infecting the recipient. If you want to be extra careful, leave it outside their front door and spray the outer packaging with disinfectant.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 09:10:31 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 22, 2020, 08:23:42 amFYI: clearly I could hear it was not an "elderly, high-risk person" on the phone they were speaking to, but another same age IDIOTor I'd bet a lowlife mask/respirator hoarder gang about to ship them in a sealed pallet or container elsewhere, most likely OS,at 10 times the pricewhile local aussies may have to resort to socks and undies to filter out corona

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 10:03:54 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 22, 2020, 09:10:31 amYou should apply to work as a clairvoyant in nearest hospital.Some of my friends have congenital heart disease, asthma and diabetes but they sound just the same to me on a phone.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 10:17:31 am
content: the person had the phone on hands free,the person on the other end was no geriatic nor sounded short on breath or hinting they had one foot in the graveIt's a safe bet they were hoarding assholes,the person on the other end was most likely filling their trailer with dunny paper and baby food to send OS**** them

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 02:28:07 pm
content: I have several friends who are immunocompromised or on immunosuppressants. They sound like normal adults but corona has a significantly increased chance of lethality for them.

author: engineheat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 02:12:57 am
content: I also have a few of these masks:I got them before this virus thing hit. Since I only have a couple, I need to be able to reuse them. I wonder if putting them in the oven at something like 70 C is a good idea. Supposed the COVID-19 gets killed at 65C (149F).So basically cook it like a well done steak. Will it do any harm?thanks

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 03:54:00 am
content: For those who thought IPA washing was feasible our local big hardware stores are out of IPA (along with everyone else) and even the Methylated Spirits (Denatured Alcohol) is wiped out and I want to brew some Shellac for some woodwork projectsDidn't look at masks due to CBF and I had already won the TP lottery for the day. Add to thatDUSTmasks are largely ineffective againstVirus's

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:33:40 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 23, 2020, 03:54:00 amEspecially viri embedded with mutating Panique BSHave you tried Jaycar for IPA?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:45:15 am
content: I still have about 500ml of IPA and I can dissolve Shellac in it but I want to save it for 3D printing and electronics. The local Farmers Co-Op had Metho last week so I will give them a go tomorrow. Also IPA drys a bit fast so it isn't ideal.Ballarat Bunnings still had 100% IPA so it is still around and there is plenty of PCB cleaner if needed for Electronics and I have Sanitiser in the First Aid kit anyway as a staple. Nearest Jaycar is 3 hours away

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:50:53 am
content: Supercheap, Repco ?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:56:36 am
content: The Co-Op is walking distance after coffee in the morning the other options are 20 minutes drive.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:11:23 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 23, 2020, 03:54:00 amThis is factually wrong. See the resources athttps://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/worker-health-safety-us/all-stories/full-story-detail/?storyid=8855304f-01cb-4af2-8937-83096cdb4113Dusk masks of N95/FFP2 class or above protect against viruses.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 09:36:06 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on March 23, 2020, 08:11:23 pmPDFs aside, I'd like to see their lab tests with live viri, filmed and witnessed by independent non-cash biased qualified peopleGood luck with any mask if a non-hoax burial-class virus comes along,assuming formerly nice peoplethat overnight mutated into toilet paper hoarding zombiesdon't relieve you of your mask by forceduring the mindless mayhem that ensues

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 11:13:43 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on March 23, 2020, 08:11:23 pm'Dust Masks' in the general disposable types sold at hardware stores are not generally N95 grade filtration they are typically 1-2 micron range not 0.3.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 02:27:54 pm
content: These are dust masks, just for a finer grade of dust. Yes, the cheapest grade (FFP1, no idea what the US equivalent is) won't block enough. But most commonly used dust masks (at least in my experience) are N95.N95 masks are rated for 0.3um, but Coronavirus nuclei are 0.1um-ish. The reason masks are still effective is that droplets containing viruses dry out to form larger particles, which are better filterable.Respirators also have a non-trivial absorbance curve:While 0.1um particles only have 95-98% efficiency, that's basically what the respirator is rated for anyway.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 08:24:02 am
content: On topic:http://joannenova.com.au/2020/03/masks-can-stop-maybe-75-of-influenza-and-you-can-make-them/

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 08:10:12 am
content: What the fuck is this thread? A few factual posters and a truckload of unsubstantiated FUD.A proper accredited by whatever local agencies (NIOSH/OSHA in the US) i.e. Just not whatever weird knockoff direct import shit Amazon has in stock. With appropriate filters will provide protection for you. For US folk, N95 is equivalent filtration (95% >0.3um, non-oily particles ) as the medical masks, but medical stuff is rated for liquid jets for the surgery theater. P95 is the same, but oily particulate is acceptable. P100 filters capture 99.97% for the same particle sizes, and can handle oily particulate too. On respirator filters, N/P95 generally has time limits, P100 is generally until it's too much effort to inhale, then replace. But RTFM from your manufacturer.With a good fit (in the US, if you're required to wear a respirator for work, you're gonna have to go to a work medical clinic for a fit check to select the appropriate size) and not being exposed arterial spray, a halfmask/P100 filters is going to absolutely provide you with better protection than a N95 disposable with questionable seal.The obvious issues are cleaning a reusable device. It's not like they don't need to get cleaned and disinfected regularly in normal circumstances, just more-so now. Masks are made with silicone and polypropylene, it's not like its hard to clean them via immersion. And secondly, the exhale valve obviously isn't filtered, so it's not providing protection from you to other people. However other folks whining and crying about that in here doesn't magically make disposables available, so if you have access to one but not the other, your decision is made.Tldr: use the right filters, clean the mask frequently, know the outside and filters are "hot", a good fit is important, and if you are sick, then you aren't helping anyone else by wearing it, like a disposable would. Neither a disposable mask or reusable half mask respirator provide protection to your eyes, so mind that as you deem appropriate.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 04:18:57 pm
content: Quote from: ConKbot on March 28, 2020, 08:10:12 amYou're raising a good point here. Whereas contamination through inhaling is a bit more likely (you're obviously force-feeding it through your nose), it can absolutely be through the eyes as well. A proper protection would include appropriate glasses. It's a particularly important point to keep in mind for anyone who would have to deal with someone infected.