High resolution cabinet X-Ray machine for sale located in UK - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 02:36:11 pm
content: I promised to let forum members know if a decent high resolution X-Ray machine became available via my friends in the used technology supply business.I have bought two Faxitron MX-20 systems from these guys in the past and both have been truly amazing bits of kit. Being a cabinet X-Ray machine, that uses low energy X-Ray's with sensitive high resolution imaging arrays, these are safer than any open site type X-Ray. You do still need to be sensible with them though. A decent Low X-Ray Energy dosimeter is a must for your own safety.Chris of Lab-Tech phoned me this morning and offered me another high resolution cabinet X-Ray machine. It is not a Faxitron this time, but a very similar KUBTEC XPERT 40. She is a real beauty. The unit is supplied with the original computer, installed software and the software installation disks. I believe it even comes with the manual.KUBTEC web page for the unithttp://kubtec.com/xpert-40-digital-specimen-radiography-system/Chris is a really nice and honourable chap so I would not hesitate to do business with him. He gave me the heads up on the machine in case I wanted another, but finances do not permit such a purchase now. It is a significant sum of money at £3000 + £60 postage in the UK...... But it was originally installed in 2008 and is worth every penny in my opinion. A really nice X-Ray machine. If I had the money I would have bought it.The auction is here and you can contact Chris via his business details on the web page.http://www.ebay.com/itm/152011785452?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITAn important detail about the machine is the X-Ray tube type. This unit uses a Microfocus tube with a spot size of less than 50um. The high resolution imaging array appears to be 100mm X 100mm. The perfect size for electronics as many machines have the smaller 50mm X 50mm size fitted for biopsy work. The 100x100 X-Ray array type cameras sell for £25K new !As stated, I do know Chris and have bought many items from him. I am not on commission or receiving any kick backs for highlighting this auction though.If you really need or want a decent low X-Ray energy high resolution X-Ray machine, give this one serious consideration. I would even consider a Bank loan to buy it if I did not already own two Faxitrons !If any of you do buy this machine, I will be very envious of youFraserUK

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 10:38:21 pm
content: Very close to me so a bit of haggling and deal done it's in the back of my car!Guess I'd better get some crap sold to pay for it and make room for it...

author: Alex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:34:53 pm
content: So you are the guy that snatched it right out of my hands!Alex

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:35:42 pm
content: Excellent news !I am so pleased that it has gone to a good homeDid you tell Chis you were from the EEVBlog forum ? He is a nice guy and I believe he would give discount to forum members.That machine is a real beauty. It can generate up to 50 kVp and 1mA tube current. Very nice. I liked the neat cart that it was on and it looked a very professional setup. The 100mm X 100mm imaging array is a good find as well. Not that common and a £25K option on the Faxitron units.It is running with a standard Dell PC as well so you should have no problem maintaining the computer side of things.I would be interested in seeing pictures of the Test Phantom that Chris mentioned. I presume this checks the correct calibration of the system.Do let us know how you get on with it. If I had not retired, I would have bought it myself. You are a lucky chap.I spent the day stripping down my Todd Research BASIX 30 mail scanner today. It is now separated into piles of steel casing panels, lead sheets and electronics. All off to the metal merchant tomorrow. I will be glad to see the back of that heavy thing. I have salvaged the mini PC, camera, lead glass plate and X-Ray tube from it. Getting into the tube head was hard going with the Dremel circular saw.Enjoy your new toy and if I can be of any assistance, please let me know.Fraser

author: Alex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:40:01 pm
content: Fraser, did you mean 1mA?It would be good to know how to access the exposure counter on the Kubtec units.Alex

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:47:54 pm
content: Hi Alex,Yes sorry, memory fade. I should have said 1mA and not 3mA. I have corrected my post.Fraser

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:53:42 pm
content: I called Chris to chat about VAT issues and we got on really well, he's a great enthusiastic guy we have lots of shared interests and experiences. And we both sell stuff to the same customers as well, and not just you!It's a very complete and excellent condition package, loads of documentation and original installation disks. All looks to be very well designed top quality gear. Very heavy too!As soon as I called him he said 'Do you know Fraser?'...!Sorry to steal it from under somebodys nose but I collected and paid cash within a couple of hours of speaking to the seller, that always makes for an easy deal.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 04:18:22 pm
content: Well the thing is finally out of my car, it weighs 140Kg and getting it out of a small hatchback on my own was a bit of a drama!Quick plug in and chuck a Raspberry Pi in the oven to check it out. Needs a lot of oomph to punch through the 2 solid power planes but it manages it.Full size 100mm x 100mm images at:30KV (500uA, 750uA, 1000uA)40KV (500uA, 750uA, 1000uA)50KV (500uA, 750uA, 1000uA)then 3 zoomed in at:50KV (500uA, 750uA, 1000uA)30KV 500uA30KV 750uA30KV 1000uA40KV 500uA40KV 750uA40KV 1000uA50KV 500uA50KV 750uA50KV 1000uA50KV 500uA50KV 750uA50KV 1000uA

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 04:49:06 pm
content: Very NiceFraser

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 05:14:09 pm
content: Well it works! Reveals a lot more detail if you fiddle about with the contrast and brightness controls.Having fish for dinner later, just gave it quick check for bones!

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 09:30:47 pm
content: Well that is very very cool!

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 09:35:12 pm
content: I had heard this is how you check bga style parts for solder bridges during in production. I bet there must be some production companies out there that would love that thing.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 10:17:34 pm
content: @ Trevwhite,Production companies tend to use higher powered Microfocus X-Ray machines. These can usually produce at least 160kVp for good penetration.When inspecting BGA soldering quality they need to see through the solder balls for density, occlusions and poor shape. Lower power X-Ray energy is limited to showing the alignment and presence of solder balls only.I have used large production type Microfocus X-Ray machines and they are very capable. They provide superb resolution and excellent magnification.Fraser

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 11:17:44 pm
content: I would have bought that, if it wasn't illegal to import into Australia

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 12:18:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 23, 2016, 11:17:44 pmHow does any X-ray kit get into Oz then?Or do you just mean illegal for you to import without license etc.?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 12:47:21 am
content: The 50kV makes a big difference over the 35kV of my Faxitron. Maybe I should try some tweaks (despite the supposed 35kv limit of the detector - I'm sure they put some margin in....)

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 01:38:34 am
content: I believe I've read somewhere (maybe from Fraser?) that the MX20 can be "overclocked" to 40 kV. But the tube current limit of 300 uA seems like it will be a bigger problem.From my research, the tube in the MX20 is a TFX-8050, rated for a maximum target voltage of 50 kV and maximum target current of 1 mA. There is also a maximum tube power spec of 8 watts, but the MX20 already exceeds that at 35 kV/300 uA so I'm not sure how big a deal it is. (Edit: the TFX-8050 spec sheet clarifies the power rating as 1W per micrometer of focal spot size, and the MX20 is rated for a "nominal" spot size less than 20 micrometers. So that explainsthat...or does it? How do they adjust the spot size?)

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 01:44:09 am
content: Very jealous right now. Based on those images, I think this thread needs a  tag...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 01:44:50 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 24, 2016, 12:18:28 amI believe you need a license to operate one in Oz.And it's illegal to sell one I believe, hence the complete lack of them on the market. They have to be "disposed of" or on-sold to someone with a license.You can buy the toy dental ones on ebay though.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 02:21:53 am
content: To clarify, I have not detailed upgrading the drive to the X-Ray tube to 40kVp on a Faxitron MX-20. Doing such invalidates the equipments safety certification so I could not recommend such action.Whilst the tube can take the increase in kVp you do need to start thinking about the X-Ray containment as you increase the tube voltage. Yes the X-Ray energy will penetrate the DUT better, but it may also start to leak past the X-Ray containment measures as well. To be honest 50kVp would likely still be OK in the well designed Faxitron cabinet, but a thorough X-Ray survey of an upgraded unit would still be sensible.Once you get very far into the Hard X-Ray energy range you start to see lead shielding being employed. The Faxitron is relatively light because it uses only steel and stainless steel for X-Ray containment. No lead is needed at 35kVp.I need to get myself a dead R-Pi and do some penetration comparisons using my 'new' MX-20 and its more advanced imaging array. Anyone got one I can borrow for some penetration tests? Be warned, lots of soft X-Ray exposure could harm parts of it, so best if it's already dead. The same model as Toploser used would be needed for direct comparisons of performance. Which R-Pi model did you use Toploser ?Fraser

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:36:00 am
content: There's a lot of lead shielding used in this thing. It's quite challenging to move about.I used a Pi 3 Fraser, I'll send it to you.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 11:07:43 am
content: @Toploser,Thanks for offering to loan me the R-Pi. That will be most excellent.I will need the R-Pi for about a week if that is OK. I have storage boxes piled in front of my MX-20's at the moment as I am still mid way through the tidy up process.Many thanksFraser

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 01:39:18 pm
content: This is what mine will do witha a Pi 3 - actually a lot better than other PCBs I've looked at, probably due to thin copper layers.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:35:46 pm
content: Really like these pictures, thanks for the uploads everyone.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 24, 2016, 01:39:18 pmVery inteesting -- that's from an MX20 at 35 kV/300 uA? It's pretty close to the quality of the XPERT 40's shot at 50 kV/500 uA. Is the sensor alone enough to account for the difference?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:00:49 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on March 24, 2016, 09:46:31 pmDon't recall what the current is - its fixed. This was the maximum (19s) exposure time that the Faxitron software lets you set.Other PCBs I've done haven't come out as well, I suspect due to copper thickness.Main issue is my sensor is only 50x50mm - at some point I must get round to doing an XY table to scan larger objects.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on March 24, 2016, 10:36:00 amYou don't happen to sell a few already? That would be

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:52:40 pm
content: There are many variables that can affect the ability of a low energy X-Ray system imaging a particular DUT.1. Efficiency of Microfocus tube in converting kVp into keV2. Transmission losses through tube window3. Condition of tube.4. Sensitivity of the X-Ray imaging array (camera)5. Capabilities of the software processing the camera output.For a given keV energy level, there will be a thickness of a particular material that effectively attenuates the energy to a point that little or none emerges from the DUT and so, no matter how sensitive the camera, nothing will be seen through those dense areas.X-Ray tubes do age. Just because a certain kVp is applied you do not necessarily get the same keV out of it as a new tube produces.The camera in a Microfocus X-Ray machine can be constructed in several ways. Some are more sensitive than others. A more sensitive camera can form an image with a lower level of energy getting through the DUT.The BIOPTICS camera in my older Faxitron MX-20 is constructed as follows:1. Layer of carbon fibre 'armour' for protection.2. High resolution very fine grain Fluorescent intensifier plate.3. Fibre Chanel plate interfacing intensifier to detector array.4. Detector array .... 2048 X 2048 pixels.5. Read out electronics.Whilst this design works well it does have some losses in the signal path. The intensifier plate glows under X-Ray illumination above a certain specified level. Different materials provide different sensitivities and photon light output. The plate is basically a photon converter. The micro channel plate is important as it directs the photons from the intensifier plate onto the light sensitive pixels. The micro channel design also helps to reduce off axis light pollution destroying sharpness of the image. Sadly the micro channel plate does introduce a small loss into the system. The light sensitive pixels that actually convert the photons to a format readable by the read out electronics can be of differing sensitivities and noise outputs. The read out electronics can also introduce noise into the system that degrades the signal to noise ratio of the image produced. Software signal processing can enhance the image however.The later USB Hamamatsu camera used in my newer MX-20 is of a different and more efficient design.1. Layer of carbon fibre 'armour' for protection.2. Detector array of >2048 X >2048 pixels.3. Read out electronicsHuh ? you say....where is the fluorescent intensifier plate ?Well this camera uses detector pixels that have the fluorescent intensifier coating applied directly to the pixels face. This increases conversion efficiency and negates the need for the micro channel plate. A very sophisticated and sensitive X-Ray imaging camera results. The read out electronics can still add noise to the signal but there is likely to be more received signal to begin with.I would expect Mike's and my later MX-20 to have cameras that perform very well at low keV levels, thanks to their Hamamatsu highly efficient photon translation technology.That said, you cannot beat having more keV available to illuminate the DUT.The KUBTEC is a more powerful machine and so can penetrate slightly thicker materials. It will still have trouble with dense materials like steel though. Whilst the Hammamatsu camera equipped MX-20 may be able to hold its own against the Xpert40 in many scenario's, it will always struggle in terms of its maximum of 35kVp tube voltage when the DUT is very dense or thick. As I stated earlier, it matters not how sensitive the camera is if the energy is not getting through the DUT. Nothing out = nothing to detect in the camera.I do not know what camera is used in the Xpert40. The camera driver may give away the OEM. It is a nice high resolution camera though, as can be seen from the excellent images produced by Toploser. I am green with envyFraser

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:59:45 pm
content: My exposure times are currently 5 seconds. I think there is lots of room for improvement if I increase exposure time. Not really played much with exploring the dynamic range of the sensor using the brightness and contrast controls.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 07:27:17 pm
content: Thanks to Toploser I have the loan of an R-Pi 3.I will have to clear some space from in front of my MX-20, but I will then try to provide the best images of the R-Pi that I can in order to show the differences in the capabilities of the KUBTEC and Faxitrom products. The Kubtec definitely has the advantage of a higher kVp capability. We shall see how much difference the extra 15kVp makes where large power planes are involved.I must be honest though, I knew that seeing through dense materials and metals would not be possible with only 35kVp at the tube .... That is just physics at work. I have still managed to image what I have needed however. The items that I could not image would have defeated a machine with much higher kVp, even the KUBTEC. Even mail scanning cabinets with 65kVp struggle with steel and other dense materials. Resolution and sharpness of image are the qualities of compact Microfocus tube systems. The whole design of the common small Microfocus X-Ray tube systems limits their wattage. They have a very small uncooled spot size on the target to achieve their high imaging performance.So in short, the KUBTEC is a lovely bit of kit, but do not get too hung up on needing very high kVp specs for much common PCB work. If you need to do really challenging PCB inspection you will need a much bigger and heavier Microfocus cabinet X-Ray costing several hundred thousand pounds and they rarely, if ever, come onto the secondary market. The OEM agents strip them down and either refurbish or scrap the units. Those Microfocus based units contain an X-Ray generation chamber of Aluminium and you disassemble the chamber to fit a new combined filament and cathode. The chamber is then vacuumed down over several hours by the systems turbine pump. Cooling of the Microfocus X-Ray chamber target is provided via a fluid coooling system and radiator, all external to the cabinet. They are large and complex beasts.That is why we are so lucky to be able to buy compact and relatively light weight Microfocus cabinet systems like the KUBTEC and Faxitron products. The more affordable price on the secondary market is also greatI do not know the original cost of the Xpert40 but the MX-20 originally cost over £50k !Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 08:19:16 pm
content: OK its X-Ray time again !Toploser kindly gifted me a Raspberry Pi 3 for X-Ray imaging.I found a bit of time this evening to warm up the Faxirtron MX-20 that is equipped with the later 100mm x 100mm Hamamatsu USB imaging array.I let the machines auto exposure control set the kV and exposure time. It used the full 35kV with an exposure time of around 15 seconds.After the MX-20 had completed the exposure I saved its auto adjusted image and then adjusted the window control that sets the span and centre of captured ADU data that is displayed. It acts bot like a contrast and brightness control but you can set a narrow window and move it up and down the collected data sample to bring out more detail in areas of interest. The images that follow were ll taken at the same kV and similar exposure times. It s only my manual adjustment of the ADU data window span and center that is different.I tried to align the Raspberry Pi with Toplosers pictures so that comparisons may be made. The close up images are not electronic zoom, I used the positioning of the Raspberry Pi higher in the cabinet (towards the generator) to produce physical zoom. This does reduce clarity a little though and tends to soften the image.it is possible to override the auto exposure mode and increase the exposure time in an effort to reveal more detail in dense objects that produce low contrast imaging of their contents. I have not gone to this effort in this case. In order to fit the images into this forums 1Mb restriction, I had to select an 85% setting in the JPEG compression settings. Some image degradation may result but hopefully not much.Oh almost forgot, in case anyone wants to know, the Faxitron MX-20 has a maximum X-Ray tube drive of 35kV at a fixed 300uA. It is therefore not suited to penetrating dense materials such as thick copper or steel.EnjoyFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 08:22:23 pm
content: More images

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 08:24:23 pm
content: More images

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 08:26:17 pm
content: More images

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 11:00:28 pm
content: Great images, thanks for posting those. Now I'm wondering how much of a difference the upgraded Hamamatsu sensor makes. Looks like you're easily getting equivalent image quality to the 50 kV images posted from the other machine.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 12:39:09 am
content: KE5FX,I must say I was pleasantly surprised by the newer MX-20's imaging capabilities. I will repeat the exercise with the older MX-20 that is fitted with a Bioptics imaging array, but that will be some time in the future as it is currently behind piles of kit I am sorting through. I also imaged a DALLAS DS1287 RTC module and was surprised to be able to image the IC die through the lithium coin cell. Pictures in my Electronics X-Ray images thread also to be found on this forum.I can only assume that the Hamamatsu imaging array is a very sensitive, low noise assembly.Fraser

author: viromonkey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 09:14:55 am
content: I just wanted to post here in case anyone was able to help meI have a kubtec xpert 20 and want to see if i can get it working. Having the PC it came with but no software... I understand you need digicom for it to work but is there any other software that can be used.Thanks

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 10:51:43 am
content: You will need to talk to Kubtec, but sadly they will likely refuse to assist you if you are not one of their registered customers.I can only assist with Faxitron systems.Fraser

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 11:50:27 am
content: Maybe you are lucky and the software is still on the HDD of the computer and has just been deleted / de-installed before the machine was sold/scrapped.Try to make a 1:1 sector copy of the HDD first and then to undelete the files (at the copied HDD of course)

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 03:06:09 pm
content: Apparently the machine came without a HDD so that's not going to be an option...I've sent a copy of the 4 installation and documentation CD's to the guy and we'll take it from there with a new HDD. He has the USB dongle for the software but we'll see if that needs some specific config files that aren't on the CD's.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 04:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on March 23, 2016, 05:14:09 pmA few years back, I attended an SPIE meeting where a Swedish group was discussing their high-spatial-resolution detector for low-energy x rays, suitable for mammography.To evaluate their system, they used fish as test objects because of their fine bones.Their detector could operate in photon-counting mode, and they demonstrated how "elegantly" the images degraded at very low doses, where noise came from the Poisson statistics, compared with a detector that had "dark noise".An audience member said that was the best demonstration of Poisson imaging he had ever seen: only half the audience laughed and I noticed that my boss sitting next to me didn't get the joke.