Looking for help selecting a budget multi-meter. I'm quite overwhelmed. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 03:39:48 pm
content: Hello,Please don't judge me too harshly, I did search the forums and read some of the results, but while some are simply irrelevant (EU results - I'm in the US) others had different needs/uses.I've tried to decipher the very extensive DMM spreadsheet but coming up still not nearly fully understand the finer details.I have some background in Electronics from Highschool and electronics tech repair in the military service. Since then I've successfully repaired my Panasonic plasma TV and my Onkyo receiver, both thanks for youtube tutorials.I am looking for a DMM which will be robust and accurate for doing troubleshooting on home electronics, such as home theater, computers, networking etc...My goal is to purchase it used on the eBay at around $100 (like Fluke 77IV for example). Fluke is what I used in the military and never had any issues with it.Features wise, I'm not sure but sounds like 6k count, Digital and auto-range would be nice to have. Testing diodes is must have, testing transistors directly would be a nice to have.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 04:47:05 pm
content: It's complicated... Furthermore, it doesn't matter what you buy because you will be buying more later. Nobody in this game for any length of time has less than a half dozen handheld DMMs and maybe a couple of bench DMMs. They grow like rabbits!If you have even the most remote intention of measuring mains voltages, you care about the CAT ratings. CAT III is probably a minimum. But the problem is, the CAT rating on the case is just ink on plastic, it means nothing. For this application you should be buying top end stuff, Fluke, Brymen, maybe a couple of others. There is some kind of database over in Test Equipment that shows the results of testing the CAT ratings.The EEVblog 121GW meter is pretty nice as is the EEVblog Brymen BM235 and everything that Fluke makes.I have all of the above including a Fluke 189 but the meter I reach for is a $25 Aneng 8008. Our host did a video on this unit and the review is a mixed bag. Dave doesn't like 'cheap ass meters' but the accuracy is simply astounding. I can buy 4 of them for $100...There's no chance in the world I would buy a handheld DMM on eBay. Even bench DMMs are iffy. In fact, everything is iffy...The 121GW is available on Amazon for $125 with same day delivery (around here). It's a little over the price range but it's a really good DMM. It has only a CAT III rating but that's good enough for mains around the house. The Brymen has a CAT IV rating at 300V which is pretty useless since CAT IV is high energy - think 480V substations and such. The voltage rating is too low to be useful in an industrial environment.The BM235 is also available on Amazon for same day delivery for the same money.So, selecting the right meter depends entirely on where you want to use it. I still reach for the Aneng 8008.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 04:59:08 pm
content: Transistor test sockets on DMMs aren't highly regarded around here because you might be holding the meter near the socket when you probe something at a higher voltage. The sockets aren't well protected from touch.That's not to say you don't eventually buy a 'cheap ass meter' that does do transistor testing, you just have to avoid using it on mains.There are videos re: testing transistors with a DMM.

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 05:07:51 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 13, 2019, 04:47:05 pmThanks for the detailed response. I will definitely off to do more homework based on your suggestions.Could you please expand on why eBay is not the venue you'd be looking at? what makes it iffy? Counterfeit products?

author: ArthurDent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 05:13:07 pm
content: I have a UNI-T UT61E that I really like. I paid around $50 on line and the price ranges up to about $65 depending where you buy it. Obviously for this price you're not going to get the same meter as a $300 Fluke so you have to decide what features are important to you. Here's a good overview of several multimeters and what to look for featurewise.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 05:34:28 pm
content: If you want quality and trustable safety at a budget price, then you could do worse than picking up a Fluke 101 for around $50. It performed very well in joeqsmith's Handheld meter electrical robustness testing and is officially CAT III 600V.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/It's not the most featured of meters but it does include (in addition to voltage of course), ohms, continuity, diode test, capacitance and frequency. What itdoesn'thave is a current range, but that's agoodthing when you're dealing with mains!You then have around $50 left in your budget for something lower quality but more featured, or a second hand bargain for non safety related stuff.

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 05:55:53 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 13, 2019, 05:34:28 pmReading this review:https://testmeterpro.com/fluke-101-review/in cons: "Auto-ranging andcontinuity a bit slow" - then I was troubleshooting the Y-line chips in my TV, testing many many of IC legs having a very fast response on continuity was instrumental.Because of this, I'm afraid I'd have to pass on this nice budget fluke DMM.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 05:58:57 pm
content: If cost is an object, consider the el cheapo Harbor Freight units for less than $10. I have a few and they are accurate enough for most uses.If you want a high grade meter, consider Fluke 87. It's nice. I have a box full of various meters, perhaps eight or so hand helds. I often use my analog meter for quick readings. I have a few bench type units all the way up to the HP 3456A which goes to six digits. I have an antique, an Electro Instruments five digit Nixie tube readout rack mounted unit. The Harbor Freight units get used a lot for casual measurements, what I mostly make.But if you want to have a nice assortment of test gear, there are many other instruments that you may want to own. Signal generators, oscilloscopes, impedance bridges, power supplies, spectrum analyzers, counters, and more. Heck, I even have about eight varieties of soldering irons for various situations. Plus screw drivers, nut drivers, wrenches, pliers, wire strippers, the list is long and I have far too many of each.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 06:27:09 pm
content: Quote from: BoredSysAdm on May 13, 2019, 05:07:51 pmIf you're looking at New In Box items, maybe it's not such a problem. Where I get concerned is what abuse has the meter been exposed to? We had a thread around here the other day where the internals were essentially fried - as in burned. Why are they selling it? Why so cheap? Do I really want to put up with the return nonsense? All in, I'm not a fan of buying test gear on eBay but I have done it and it has been successful. It all depends on which way things work out.With a budget on the order of $100, you can get either of two really good meters delivered New In Box and have them today. How much do you really save going to eBay?ETA: To be fair, I bought two bench DMMs on eBay and one came with traceable calibration. The thing about used bench DMMs is that they have probably been treated pretty well because by the time people start using bench meters, they pretty well know what they are doing. That might not be the case for users of handheld meters.I also bought a used Tek 485 scope about 12 years ago for around $200. It has been perfect in every regard. It was my primary scope until I bought a Rigol DS1054Z a couple of years ago. The 485 has 350 MHz of bandwidth, something I could never afford in a modern DSO. I won't be scrapping it any time soon!

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 06:34:11 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on May 13, 2019, 05:58:57 pmNot quite sure what my wife would say if I decide to keep around eight varieties of strippers...Seriously now, I know you're right. Even basic electronics troubleshooting requires stuff like scope and PSU. I guess I'm not there quite yet. Let's start with a decent DMM.

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 06:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: ArthurDent on May 13, 2019, 05:13:07 pmUNI-T looks extremely interesting, also features in this shootout:

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 06:50:13 pm
content: This does everything you need/want except autoranging and if you use coupons, you can get it for about $16. And the continuity beeper is lightning fast.https://www.harborfreight.com/11-function-digital-multimeter-with-audible-continuity-61593.htmlThen you can decide what you would really rather have, set a few targets and then wait for a deal to show up on eBay. I've gotten several pretty good meters off eBay for $100ish or less, but the best deals are often not on Fluke, which go for big bucks even in beat up condition.As an example, this is an older but outstanding DMM:https://www.ebay.com/itm/BK-Precision-ASYC-II-5360-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-DMM-Bar-Graph/233219191596?hash=item364cf2732c:g:8LgAAOSwtwVc0JFr

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 07:28:54 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 13, 2019, 06:50:13 pmHarbor Freight claims this DMM is an Extech MN36 and doesn't appear to be the case. They are entirely different meters. Probably a typo...https://www.harborfreight.com/11-function-digital-multimeter-with-audible-continuity-61593.htmlhttp://www.extech.com/display/?id=14580This meter doesn't even pretend to have CAT ratings. If it has them, they aren't shown in the User Manual or on the face of the meter.The Aneng 8008 is in the same price range ($26) and from Dave's tests, it is a very accurate meter. It pretends to have CAT ratings but i'm not sure I would trust them. I don't use mine on mains, but I would. This whole CAT thing assumes a transient the size of a lightning bolt right on the wires leading to your panel. Around here we almost never get ground strikes. Maybe a few sky strikes from time to time but no ground strikes.I still use my Simpson 260 V-O-M and it doesn't have CAT ratings either.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 07:35:58 pm
content: I generally *don't* recommend Fluke for starting electronics hobbyists.They are great meters, and I have used them frequently. However, you pay a lot for the ruggedness, name brand, and CAT IV rating and they tend to have less performance and features (specifically for electronics) that similarly priced meters even from well respected brands. If your meter isn't going to be bouncing off of wrenches in your toolbox in the back of your pickup truck on the way to measure some electrical panels, a Fluke is overkill.For example, most of the less expensive Flukes that you are looking at will be <10,000 count. Many Fluke meters don't have good mV, mA, or uA ranges. Their capacitance mode only goes down to 1 nF resolution. You can get all of those things and more with the fluke 87, but then you are paying $$$.A brymen, amprobe, uni-t, bk precision or other second tier brand meter with a CAT III rating will do more than a used fluke 77 and be plenty safe for measuring typical household wiring and appliances. For regular home use and if you treat your equipment well the extra ruggedness is just bulk and weight you don't need.I personally wouldn't use a harbor freight or other ultra-cheap no-name meter on live circuits, but they would be perfectly fine for the price if you were only going to look at low voltage circuits with external power supplies.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 08:34:53 pm
content: Greenlee has several meters that are OEM from Brymen, a very good brand of DMMs. Greenlee provides Lifetime warranty with some limitations.Check this mid range DMM selling new for a very reasonable priceeBay auction: #183804082529.The UT-61E is also a good candidate with more features, but you trade off safety and warranty.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 09:04:28 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 13, 2019, 05:34:28 pmI have one that I keep in my work toolbag. For my use, no current function is a non issue. Very accurate, however, I don't like the cheap leads. I added a set of Brymen leads and, for me, it is a great combo.Quote from: rstofer on May 13, 2019, 07:28:54 pmI have the 8008 and 8009. I did the mods found on this forum and they also work well. I have tried them on mains but I will reserve that function for my Fluke 27/FM. I WOULD NOT buy any of the Harbor Freight meters. Even when there is a free coupon, you've overpaid. I don't know which store Bob91313 got his, but the ones I had foisted off on me were way off on resistance and I didn't feel comfortable using them on mains. They should be good enough for measuring voltage in your car.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 10:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on May 13, 2019, 09:04:28 pmWhen my grandson was in elementary school they were having a Science Fair. We did a project explaining Ohm's Law by mounting 3 HF DMMs on a project board:https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63604.htmlThey worked perfect for the application and he won first place in the Fair. Surprised me...I used to have one of these cheap meters on my sailboat for tracking the batteries. It worked ok and if it got damp or otherwise destroyed, I wouldn't much care.I DO NOT recommend them for serious work.About as far down the list as I am going to go is the Aneng 8008. I like quality meters but money is still a consideration. For $100, I could have 4 Anengs and a good start at the inevitable half-dozen or more.There are many workable meters under $100 and it just comes down to picking one with the certain knowledge that it won't be the last.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 10:09:20 pm
content: Application: Consider a common emitter transistor amplifier with adjustable base voltage. You would want 1 DMM to measure the base voltage. You might want another to measure the base current. You would want a 3rd to measure the collector current and, maybe, a 4th to measure the collector voltage.It isn't hard to come up with applications where multiple meters are just plain handy.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 11:40:35 pm
content: I wouldn't let buying on Ebay scare you off, but you do need to read between the lines and ensure there is an understanding that the meter is in the operational/cosmetic condition you expect.Multimeters (especially good brands) tend to last decades when looked after. Think of what you might like to end up with and focus on that. You want both AC and DC at least mV, uA and ohms, continuity and diode test, those are the essentials. I find the low impedance, LoZ function quite handy as well.I don't use capacitance so much as I have an LCR and ESR meter, they do a better job. Until you get to that stage a cheap Chinese LCR/ESR tester is $20 on Ebay, a good substitute till you get better gear. Same goes for temperature it's not make or break on a multimeter for me as there are substitutes.Some prefer super high resolution but if your not working in the field there is a point where bench multimeters make more sense than handhelds for resolution, accuracy and conservation of desk space. While indispensable as a tool another reason you don't need to get too crazy with a multimeter is some of there usefulness is replicated in oscilloscope functionality.I have several different Flukes and happy with them, I haven't really strayed too far off that path though in 30 years. A few people are vehemently opposed to them. But Flukes have stood the test of time and you can still pick them up dirt cheap secondhand.

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 12:07:32 am
content: For $100 you can get a used 175, perhaps a 117. 15B+ is under $100 brand new, and that'd be my choice for under $100. Nice backlight, and huge readable numbers display.Important thing is to get one and start using it. You then start to understand what you might want/need in additional features or accuracy.Another good thing with Fluke is, they hold their value. Its easy to flip Fluke multimeters on EBay, and you can get most if not all your money back if you decide to upgrade (or get out of electronic altogether).

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 12:24:57 am
content: Asking for advice on meters is much like asking for advice on cars. There are many folks who are fans of a particular manufacturer and many others who have a particular application that drives their choices.I have owned handheld DMMs from many different manufacturers, including a few Flukes and other big name brands. It turns out that there are three brands/types that end up being my go to meters. One, a Beckman device that hasn't been available for decades just fits my brain and style. The other two run totally contrary to the advice here on the forum. The ones I use most frequently are those free Harbor Freight jobs. They get used because I place them everywhere and one is at hand at all times. The ones in the car get used when I am visiting and didn't know I needed to bring a DMM. The ones in the woodshed, or well house, or kitchen or bedroom all see duty from time to time. I have used them on mains with no problems, but I use a lot of caution and don't really recommend that. Accuracy has been fine for the things I use them for. To me the biggest flaw is the lack of auto turn off which means I frequently find one with a dead battery. It isn't worth replacing the battery, get another free one. The leads are really cheesy also which bothers some folks a lot. But same story, if they break or whatever get another one.The other one is also a Harbor Freight unit:https://www.harborfreight.com/5-in-1-digital-multimeter-98674.htmlLike the Beckman, it fits my style. The ergonomics are good, it has stood up to my abuse so far, is as accurate as I expect a handheld to be and packs a lot of functionality into the $60 purchase price. Autorange is slow, but can be overridden. Continuity buzzer is very fast. My biggest knock on this, the sound pressure level function has a very short time constant making the readings jumpy and hard to interpret.Something else you may want to consider is getting a DMM with only the basic functionality, and getting one of those "$20 Transistor Checkers" for the diode test, transistor test, capacitor test and other functions. There is a long thread on the forum about them and the various functions they can perform. I find myself using mine in preference to a DMM when evaluating components, matching values and similar activities.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 02:08:09 am
content: QuotePerfectly said. You don't use a Fluke when the reading is "important." You use a Fluke when you have dragged a meter halfway across the state and up a pole or through a narrow 110F crawl space only to find out it musta broke that 9th time you dropped it 20 feet onto concrete.Unless you work on the high voltage stuff and/or the wrong side of the lighting rod, you may not want a Fluke. Personally, I accidentally own a Fluke 77 for 5 years, and I could probably locate it if I needed it. But I haven't used it, yet. Sitting at my climate controlled bench and working with "consumer mains" at the worst, the worst that will happen if my meter fails is I grab one of my other meters.

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 02:33:34 pm
content: Thanks everyone for responses and sharing your experience.I don't need DMM to kick around my toolbox and play soccer with it. slightly more delicate is ok. Accuracy and speed are more important. I guess that means Fluke is out for reasons above.Lass poll:Used Greenlee DM-820 (maybe 820A)orNew UNI-T UT61E?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 06:34:24 pm
content: The Greenlees are good DMMs, especially the DM820Awhich is triple the price of a UT61E if bought new. Both models are OEMs of Brymen:The DM820A is equivalent to the Brymen BM827S.The DM820 is equivalent to the older Brymen BM815 and a teardown is in the thread below.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/greenlee-dm-820-dmm-(rebranded-brymen)-teardown/(the thread erroneously claims this is an OEM of the BM859).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 08:13:12 pm
content: Quote from: BoredSysAdm on May 14, 2019, 02:33:34 pmMy theory of test equipment (assuming adequate funds): If you want to SEE a signal, buy Tektronics. If you want to MEASURE a signal, buy Fluke.Everything else is just something else. Not that I can afford Tektronix but I do have a Fluke 189 which was around $400 some years back. It's a great meter but I still reach for the little Aneng 8008.Here's the thing about lots of digits: Suppose you can measure 1 part in a million. Can you adjust 1 part in a million? 1 part in 10 million? If you can't adjust it, why measure it? If a mouse farts nearby, will you have to recalibrate the meter or the device under test?

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 12:22:11 am
content: Quote from: BoredSysAdm on May 14, 2019, 02:33:34 pmUT61E has no backlight, which might be inconvenient.UT139C might be a better choice depending on your need... more features but slightly less accurate.

author: Cnoob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 02:35:05 am
content: Is there a makers club/electronics club locally where you can have a look at selection of DMM.Online reviews as good as they are they don't tell you what you expect from a meter.Examples. The uni-t 61e has a high burden voltage on mA range but people rave about it.The Brymen BM257 takes a second or two to settle when taking readings i.e it will flicker to 2.45 when reading 2.41DCV . (It may be just mine. My Flukes, Hioki and Keysight other Brymen do not do it.)My Flukes, Hioki and Keysight instil the most confidence when taking readings, their count error does not vary that much regardless of the DCV (0V and 31V) one or two counts. Between the Fluke289 and Hioki DT4282 the difference is one count regardless what the voltage is and between my Fluke 87V and Fluke 117 (replacing my Uni-t crap) the difference is one or two counts at the most.If you are use to flukes and like them you maybe disappointed with a cheap brand.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 03:55:11 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 14, 2019, 08:13:12 pmThe fluke 189/289 is a great meter, but it is $$$. If you can afford it or find a good deal on one, by all means get it. It will do everything most people need out of a DMM meter and more.My problem is with the "fluke or nothing" attitude. It frequently leads new hobbyists to believe that they need a fluke. Since they typically can't afford an 87 or 289 they end up getting a used 77 or a 117 or one of the many other ~6000 count electricians meters that Fluke makes. I don't think those meters have the accuracy, resolution, and range selections to make them an appropriate first/only meter for most electronics hobbyists and at the price point there are many options that are much better for that application.Now if someone asks for a recommendation for automotive or electrical work, or any kind of field work, those fluke meters would be at the top of my list.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 11:39:07 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on May 15, 2019, 03:55:11 amI don't think anyone is saying Fluke or nothing. But you can pickup a used Fluke 87 for $100 on Ebay without too much work, or two Fluke 27/FM so there is no reason to exclude them. The Fluke 117 can be used for electronics but best complements a better second meter.Decent gear doesn't necessarily need to be expensive or laden with features, it's what you do with it that counts. For personal use I would only buy a new piece of test equipment if I couldn't find it secondhand, but that isn't everyone's cup of tea. Most peoples perspective will change once they have a more expensive meter.I brought a cheap Fluke 114 on Ebay with the intention of trading it into a Fluke 117. After a bit of trawling I picked up a Fluke 87V and 117, sold the Fluke 114 for $30 profit. The total spend ended up being $120 and a few hours cleaning up the Fluke 87V, the extra $890 to buy them new here is a bit harsh.

author: BoredSysAdm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 01:20:15 pm
content: Well, after long enough consideration I've decided to go with Uni-T UT61E. Yes, a backlight would be nice to have, but I think there are mods for that (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-ut61e-backlight-mod-with-touch-sensor-(tutorial))Bought it on eBay from a veteran seller with 19k and over 99% positive feedback for $49.90. Safety according to EEVBlog's DMMs spreadsheet isn't greatest but should be enough to test 120v ac (i think)I kept looking for the really awesome deals, but nothing really caught my eye. I've spent more than enough time on this. If I ever take it seriously, it seems like bench equipment would the next logical and yet budget-friendly update.Big thanks to everyone for suggestions and advice. I highly value all it.p.s: Something I've found to read that DDM table much easier was to upload it to google spreadsheets

author: Lee Leduc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 02:27:34 pm
content: The Southwire brand sold at Lowes are popular with the local makers groups were I live. I've used a couple and they seemed well made and accurate. Here's the webpage for themhttp://www.southwiretools.com/tools/categories/test-and-measurement#multimetersThey are most likely a rebranded OEM product. If anyone knows these meters maybe they can tells us who the OEM is.

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 02:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: Lee Leduc on May 15, 2019, 02:27:34 pmSouthwire looks like CEM's products... not very well regarded due to quality issues...

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 05:28:54 pm
content: Quote from: BoredSysAdm on May 15, 2019, 01:20:15 pmCongrats. I have plenty of multimeters without backlights, it's not a big deal if you have decent lighting. The meter could however do with a nice set of Probemasters probes. I own 3 Uni-T multimeters, I replaced mine with Fluke but Probemasters are the way to go, you will notice the difference.