Is it normal for DMM replacement fuses to be this expensve?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 10:25:47 pm
content: I did a brainfart move and put my Greenlee DMM across battery terminals in current mode.It's a Bussfuse dmm-b-11a. on Digikey and other legit sources it's over $100! I found some knockoffs on Amazon for cheaper, but not sure if I want to chance that, or should I be safe? They look like the real thing... but with Amazon it's never guaranteed it is. If it's really normal for them to cost that much I'll just swallow my pride and pay it and see it as a lesson, but considering the DMM was a few hundred dollars it seems weird that the fuse would be a large part of the cost of making it.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 10:38:35 pm
content: That's insane! DMM fuses are a bit more expensive than standard ones, but usually they are just a few bucks.

author: WatchfulEye
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 01:40:38 pm
content: Multimeter HRC fuses are expensive. However, mouser and DK pricing seems ludicrous.Farnell and TME are more sensibly priced. Although from recollection the prices have tripled since I bought a pack of spares (just in case)There are equivent DMM fuses from littelfuse and others. There are also fuses rebranded by DMM vendors. For example TME sell a bussman DMM-B11A, and the same fuse as a brymen official spare part for half the price.https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/dmm-b-11a/other-fuses/bussmann/https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm-s_fuse-11a/accessories-others/brymen/?brutto=1

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 03:19:53 pm
content: SIBA, 10x38 mm, 11A, AC/DC 1000 V, superfast, EUR 8.99ESKA, 10A, AC/DC 1000 V, superfast, EUR 11.80.PeakTech branded, 10A, AC/DC 1000 V, superfast, EUR 3.52ESKA and SIBA are comparable to Bussmann or Littlefuse.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 03:40:29 pm
content: Is there a place in Canada to buy those comparable ones?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 04:21:09 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on March 26, 2024, 10:25:47 pmThere is some stupid pricing on these, but reliable-but-not-cheap Grainger has them for $17USD and I think they go for similar prices directly from Fluke or Greenlee. $100 or anything close to it is silly and I'm not at all sure how they got to those numbers. Amazon and eBay will have plenty of fakes and generics, but I believe that the seller "Witonics" has genuine products at lower prices. IDK what your situation in Canada will be, probably a lot worse than the US.https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fluke-electronics/803293/1802030

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 04:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on March 27, 2024, 03:40:29 pmPossibly. SIBA's US website ishttps://www.siballc.net/, and ESKA's US distributor ishttps://eskafuses.com/.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 04:36:13 pm
content: you sure that price aint for a pack of 10

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 05:07:34 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 27, 2024, 04:21:09 pmThat Digikey listing is way cheaper than one I found. I think I will just go with this one since I can get it on digikey.ca for $18.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 05:14:08 pm
content: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Bussfuse+dmm-b-11a&crid=1E85DAP4FK4BW&sprefix=bussfuse+dmm-b-11a%2Caps%2C170&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 07:07:07 pm
content: Jesus. Last time i had to buy the bussman it was a couple of years ago, and they cost about 12€ a pop. I found them to be too expensive already but 80 for one is ridiculousPS: I love how in multimeters that do 600mA full scale in the mA range (such as the BM867) they put a 440mA fuse. The first time i wanted to measure 500mA i got a nasty surprise

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 07:08:25 pm
content: Quote from: JDubU on March 27, 2024, 05:14:08 pmThat's how to get fakes that will explode your meter the next time you are unfortunate enough to blow one! Amazon are notorious for comingling nominally identical items in their warehouses, so if one seller has fake goods they are mixed in with the genuine stock (if any) so you risk getting fakes from any other sellers of the same item except those that do their own shipping from within your own country, have a bricks and mortar presence in your country, and a good reputation outside of Amazon.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 08:13:36 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on March 27, 2024, 07:08:25 pmYep, commingling is an option for stupid or crooked sellers to lower their costs. Try this instead:https://www.amazon.com/Witonics-DMM-B-11-Replacement-Fluke-803293/dp/B09LFYJKTL/ref=sr_1_4?crid=36FFQ4NOEBFF8

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 01:03:45 am
content: I ended up going with the Digikey one, I had not originally found that listing bdunham7 posted, and that one was more reasonable. I also bought a $400 48v 1200w Meanwell inverter to get free shipping.Going to need that for another project anyway. Converting my server room setup to dual conversion.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 04:43:04 am
content: I know it's currently sold out, but perhaps Dave will re-stock his fuse packs soon?https://eevblog.store/products/multimeter-fuse-pack

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 08:15:52 pm
content: For reference, here's the definitive list of 440mA and 11A multimeter fuses I compiled a while back. These are the ones that areexactequivalents to the ones used in Fluke, Keysight, and other reputable meters. (ESKA doesn't make 440mA and 11A multimeter fuses.) In particular, these are all proper 10.3x35mm size on the 440mA.Quote from: tooki on March 09, 2018, 02:17:42 pm

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 09:21:21 pm
content: To put this all in perspective, here are some audiophool fuses. Perhaps they would improve the tone of the continuity beeper? I'm not sure how you would determine the correct direction, though.https://houseofstereo.com/products/synergistic-research-master-fuse?variant=43225203671189

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 09:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2024, 09:21:21 pmWow. At that price, they'd better use a wire that's thick enough in that fuse, to make sure it never blows.But, seriously, the pricing on genuine DMM fuses is ridiculous. These prices only encourage people to look for cheaper options and, ultimately, end up buying fakes, which can be outside of specification, which may lead to DMMs getting damaged.The fuses must be sold at wholesale prices instead, and some be included with the meters as standard accessories, to encourage people to use proper genuine fuses and not look elsewhere.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 09:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on March 28, 2024, 09:26:32 pmThey're $11 and $6 each respectively if you buy 5-packs from a Fluke authorized distributor like Global Test Supply or TEquipment. Anything much above that is silly, although there is plenty of silliness to be had.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2024, 02:47:49 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2024, 09:21:21 pmGoing to want to put a high end transistor with a lower current rating in line with that in order to protect the fuse.As for the DMM fuses I never really considered that these might be fairly universal, is it safe to just search for multimeter fuse and get whatever has the same rating? I guess the key is to get one that won't explode and make a mess, and one that blows fast. I already ordered the one I need, but could not hurt to have some spares for all my other meters.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2024, 10:40:55 pm
content: As tooki put it already, there are only a few manufacturers worldwide that offer Multimeter fuses that go up to 1000V- mainly because they have to be able to extinguish AC+DC currents.Basically, in Europe and US markets, there are only 3 fuse manufacturers available: Bussmann, Littelfuse, SIBA.A trick is to use the fluke-branded fuses from a trusted source, as they are relabelled bussman fuses, but in most cases cheaper that the same vendor offering genuine bussmann packaged fuses.@tooki: Hioki documents in the manual for the DT4282 that they use fuses from chinese manufacturer Hollyland in 10x38mm for both of the inputs, maybe worth an addendum to the list?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2024, 12:33:56 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on March 29, 2024, 10:40:55 pmWell we don’t even have part numbers in the Hioki manual, and the mA fuse is completely different (different current rating, different size) anyway, so I will pass for now.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 11:08:26 pm
content: How about this one?https://au.element14.com/eaton-bussmann-series/dmm-b-11a/fuse-test-equipment-11a-38x10mm/dp/1241956A$141.79 (A$155.97 Inc. GST)as far as I can tell, this price is for one single fuse?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 11:17:56 pm
content: You thought it's for a box? Only for one.Greed is good, greed is legal.There's not much else commanding these outrageous prices.Look at these screen caps from last summer. Price gouging, profiteering, too many middlemen etc.I even emailed Eaton and told them they are crooks.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 11:28:15 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on June 13, 2024, 11:17:56 pmI disagree with insulting people. They have no obligation to supply you at any price. They offer as they please and you are free to walk away and buy somewhere else. And if nobody else offers at a price you believe is fair then you are free to get rich by making them and selling them yourself.Nobody owes you anything.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 03:10:49 am
content: So...what's the story with these guys ?https://thefuseshop.com/products/bussmann-dmm-b-11pack of 10 for $40 American

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 04:05:14 am
content: Those are the old pre-greed priced parts. Watch out they could be "Bassmann" lol.You do see "normal" pricing along with the asshat gouging on these fuses.The crazy high pricing has led to fakes, counterfeit parts galore. Many youtube tests don't go well.When I bitched to Eaton, they just told me to move up the sales chain - not pay retail but go for dealer or distributor cost.Quote from: soldar on June 13, 2024, 11:28:15 pmIt's a safety item and other manufacturers have also decided to jack up their price. How is this good for the people?Eaton Corp. bought Cooper Industries Bussmann2012for $11.8B and jacked up the (brand's) fuse price 10x of course. Gotta big loan to pay, new Lambo for the CEO, shareholders. $138 for a cartridge fuse - assholes.

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 04:55:07 am
content: I usually just pre-blow all of my handheld DMM fuses and never replace them.Who uses them to measure current anywayBenchtop DMM on the other hand are usually CATII and fuses are cheap as dirt.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 07:23:41 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on June 14, 2024, 04:05:14 amThis is demagoguery plain and simple.What's good for the people is to live in a society where there is freedom to buy and sell. If I am the owner of something I should be free to not sell or to ask whatever price I want even if others think the price is abusive. A free market has proved to be the best system to provide us, the people, with goods and services at a price that satisfies sellers and buyers.If you find the price for those fuses too high you can buy at cheaper prices from their competitors or you can make your own or you can do without.Again: nobody owes you anything. Nobody owes you fuses at any price.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 07:57:05 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on March 27, 2024, 07:07:07 pmNot to doubt your words, but this seems exceedingly strange, was it a very long measurement (hours or days)? Or maybe the average current was 500 mA, but with some initial heavy transient?A fast 440 mA fuse will - according to the declared characteristic - withstand a 500 mA current practically forever, see the attached graph (from Littlefuse/Fluke, but I checked Bussman and some other brands, all the same, this is just the most readable).

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 08:23:50 am
content: This seems to be the same fuse, even with the Buss name on it:https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fluke-electronics/803293/1802030It is listed as a Flute with a price of $12.62 each. And DK has over 3K of them in stock.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 08:28:06 am
content: They may be a better investment than gold, silver, or any stock on the market.Quote from: DimitriP on June 14, 2024, 03:10:49 am

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 08:52:04 am
content: I liked those old Uni-T meters that used standard BS1362 plug top fuses in them. Those fuses can interrupt 6kA (if genuine) and are suitable for most electronic and electrical applications short of three-phase industrial kit. And if you are regularly probing around that kind of equipment, you can probably afford a more expensive fuse, or at least invest in a life insurance policy instead.

author: indeterminate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 01:39:49 am
content: Its interesting that RS have them at $23.37https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/multimeter-fuses/3012416It defenetly pays to shop around.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 04:37:53 am
content: The variation on the pricing of these really does seem weird. I'm glad to report that I did replace it a while back and did not blow it again.

author: mag_therm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 05:23:19 am
content: Confusing fusing?Defined levelsCAT 3:Three-Phase DistributionSome large building lighting systems and polyphase motorsThen, limits on multimeter use:Cat 3 , 600 V : Source_Z= 2 Ohm, Is_c =300 Amp : 1_ph. transformer (approx) : 12 kVACat 3 , 300 V : Source_Z= 2 Ohm, Is_c =150 Amp : 1_ph. transformer (approx) : 3 kVAMaybe IEC needs to update ?.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 10:06:50 am
content: Quote from: mag_therm on June 15, 2024, 05:23:19 amSorry, what does that have to do with DMM fuse pricing? And what exactly are you trying to illustrate with that anyway?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 12:15:05 pm
content: Mouser has the "Fluke branded" 44/100 fuses for more reasonable prices than what is being mentioned in this thread. I might need to stock up on the 44/100...Box with five for $34https://mou.sr/3CIVdLESingle for $13https://mou.sr/3NeIZkj

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 09:45:01 am
content: Just an observation: the later models of the Simpson 260 have two fuses in series. There is a 500V, 2A and a 250V, 1A IN SERIES. I have had to replace the 250V, 1A fuse in more than one of these meters. I have NEVER, in my long career, had to replace the 500V, 2A fuse.It seems to me that the 1A fuse is the one that blows first but it can only prevent arcing up to that 250V level. Only in the rare instances where higher Voltages are present does the 2A fuse blow and protect the user for the higher, 500V level. In fact most of these meters had an internal storage slot for a replacement 1A fuse but not for the 2A one because it was expected to last a lot longer.The name brand fuses for the 1A position that Simpson specifies are quite reasonable in price while the 2A ones are considerably more expensive (but not as high as the $100+ fuses discussed above). This seems like a very sensible design. The less expensive part does most of the work and thereby protects the more expensive one most of the time.Why couldn't the makers of the DMMs use a similar strategy with an inexpensive, lower amperage fuse in series with the more expensive, higher amperage and Voltage fuse in series?Am I missing anything here? Other than a desire to sell expensive parts, that is.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 09:31:07 pm
content: It was a short-term thing in the 1980's - multimeters using two fuses in series, the cheap one and the expensive one. Back then IEC 1010 was still in its infancy.The fuse (blow) test that UL will do, it's very high energy to flush out a fuse that will explode due to the arc/heat (glass housing), or a fuse that catches fire or arcs to nearby stuff, or a fuse that never actually clears 100%, among many other things they test for.So a cheap fuse will not clear properly with high voltage/energy, prone to explode and spray glass everywhere, arc that can move to nearby components inside the DMM or just across the fuse holder clips even, in the case of small fuses like 5x20mm.These (big 38mm) DMM fuses have sand inside to quench the arc, Melamine high-temp housing- that is part of their extra cost.

author: victorb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 09:17:31 am
content: I get the hesitation with the knockoffs on Amazon, you never really know what you're getting. Personally, I'd lean towards biting the bullet and going with the legit source just to be safe, especially since your DMM was a decent investment.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 09:46:41 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on June 19, 2024, 09:31:07 pmYes, this arrangement was used for a while on Fluke DMMs, on the mA ranges. On my (physically bulletproof) Fluke 25, I was able to put an adhesive heatshrink sleeve over the body of the 250V ceramic (I'm not sure Fluke ever specified a glass) 630mA 20mm fuse to help retain any shrapnel. I bought a pack of fuses from a distributor and sacrificed one to ensure that they were sand filled.I also found sufficient space to safely fit a 230V GDT (also heatshrinked) across the back of the 20mm fuse clip connections, the logic being that if the 20mm fuse opens at mains voltage, it will automatically be shunted, bringing the expensive 3A high energy fuse into action. This would also happen in the case of an unquenchable arc in the 20mm fuse (as fluke intended).The later Fluke 27FM simply replaced the 20mm fuse position with a PCB track.Whether these modifications make the meter safer is debatable, but as the Fluke 25 was pre-CAT ratings it is probably academic. Fluke proudly advertised that the case moldings were twice as thick as their other meters and it was also submersible to 1m, so I have a fair amount of confidence in using it in situations where I wouldn't risk something like a Uni-T. [EDIT: Not that I would be daft enough to knowingly measure current in a high energy circuit anyway!]

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:28:09 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2024, 09:44:38 pmYes, there is some sort of insane grift going on with multimeter fuses if you try to buy them with fuse manufacturer part number (I suspect they prey on military or educational organizations). However exactly the same fuse sold under multimeter manufacturer part number makes them multiple times cheaper somehow, even though multimeter manufacturer certainly has their own markup in there. I've even seen that the same fuse series for non multimeter current ratings are way cheaper from the same distributor. Also SIBA fuses often go without insane markuphttps://www.tme.eu/en/details/5019906.11/fuses-10-3x38mm-super-fast/siba/Otherwise buy Fluke, Brymen or whatever, in 99% of cases they'll be the same Bussmann, Littlefuse or SIBA.

author: Stvor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 02:33:14 pm
content: From EU, sites i trust:https://www.welectron.com/Cooper-Bussmann-DMM-B-11A-HRC-Fuse-11A-1000Vhttps://eleshop.eu/multimeter-fuse-11a.htmlhttps://www.welectron.com/Fuseshttps://eleshop.eu/test-measure/meters/fuses.html

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 08:59:22 am
content: I don't know the date of it's manufacture, but I have closely examined one of my Simpson 260s (series 2). There is a separate compartment for the fuses and batteries. This compartment is molded of the same material as the main case of the meter, I would guess it is Bakelite. Both fuses are mounted in molded, vertical holes in the case. The 2A fuse is completely enclosed and the 1A is enclosed for about 75% of it's circumference but a slot in it would allow any fragments to enter the rest of the fuse and battery compartment.And Simpson was very careful to state that a particular 1A fuse was to be used. They provided both manufacturer and part number. I have that, exact fuse in my 260s and can tell you that, while they are glass fuses, they are the 1.25"/31mm long AG3s which have at least 3/4" between the metal end caps. They also have a very small element that must limit the amount of gas or liquid metal that would fly about. I don't know what, if any amount of energy it would take to cause the glass outer envelope to be ruptured.When you add the shielding from the case itself, it is hard to imagine that even with the largest possible "explosion" that the fragments of glass and metal would do any damage outside of the compartment. The inductance of the test leads themselves may be the limiting factor in any test or accident scenario.To be honest, I can't recall any other meter that I have used or seen that had this much protection against an uncontrolled arc. My more modern (digital) meters and even other meters of the age of the 260s all have had far less insulation and just plain MASS between the input circuitry and the user. In many cases these meters that boast Cat III and Cat IV protection will have a thin plastic outer case and some internal precautions like slots in the PC board.Again, just some observations I have made. It seems to me that, properly designed, the two fuse protection is fairly good. I do not know how these older meters would measure in an actual test. But then, I do not know just how well the testing procedure for these Cats have been designed.I do know if I was taking measurements at a service entrance with heavy current capability I would feel safer with one of my Simpson 260s than with many of those Flutes with the Cat ratings. But that's just me. And I do know, from personal experience, that the 260 is not much protection from 40KV. But then, I seriously doubt that the Flutes would be either. Voltage and current protection are two different things.Quote from: floobydust on June 19, 2024, 09:31:07 pm

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 06:37:03 pm
content: Simpson260-2circa 1956 has no fuses.Simpson 260-3 circa 1958, and the 4,5,6 and up have 1A 250V 3AG pigtail fuse.260-7 circa 1981 and 8, 9 use two fuses in series, 1A 250V LF fast 312001 + 2A 600V LF BLS/Bussmann BBS 10*35mm big and ~$32 here.The bakelite tunnel might be for the 5kV range? The 80MEG/4MEG 2W resistors?I'll add those fuses are only for the meter, none for 10A current function. Like all my old manly multimeters, they have no fuse on the big shunt to prevent a lesson.https://simpson260.com/downloads/downloads.htm