Balance in choosing a first oscoilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: pcolbeck
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 02:36:02 pm
content: HiI have been going round in circles with this in my head. I'm a beginner setting up my first home lab and my interests are general tinkering, old Hifi (70s and 80s) and computers (laptops, Raspberry PI, Arduino etc).So I have sorted myself out a couple of PSUs (a Hameg/Rohde&Schwarz HM7042-3 and an EA Elektro-Automatik 3016-20B) and some multimeters (Keithly 179 and a TTi 1705GP 4.5 digit bench DMMs and a couple of Anengs handhelds) so I think I am good there for now.But now the question comes of an Oscilloscope. I have been reading the reviews here and on YouTube and think I am fixed on a Siglent but am vacillating between an SDS1104X-E and an SDS2104X Plus.I know the SDS1104X-E is all I really need for now but ...I could get the SDS1104X-E and a SDG1032X function generator or an SDS2104X Plus and a cheapo generator such as an FY6900 (and maybe upgrade the generator in a few years if I found I needed a better one). Or I could go for bust and get an SDS2104X Plus and a SDG2042X.At this stage of my knowledge I am really not sure how important a quality function generator is. I could afford it wither way but like anyone I don't like throwing away money pointlessly and could always spend it on something else. what I don't want to do is blow a lot of money now then need to upgrade in a year (upgrading an £80 FY6900 would be OK but a £500 scope not so much).The SDS2104X Plus doe look lovely, maybe that should decide me sometimes nice things are just nice no matter how we try and rationalise what we should buy ....

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 02:53:17 pm
content: We just did 24 pages on this very subject:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/msg3100087/#msg3100087The debate is still valid, nothing has changed.If it matters, the SDS1104X-E can be unlocked to get 200 MHz:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-hack-to-200mhz-and-full-options/I chose 4 channels because I already had 2 channels and I wanted to decode the SPI protocol on a scope. Others will tell you that you can use a logic analyzer to decode the protocol and that is correct. At low data rates even the $10 eBay logic analyzers will work. I bought one to try it out and it works, more or less. You need to rip a driver from Saleae and many probably rip the software as well. The alternative is PulseView and I'm going to avoid discussing what I think of that setup. Suffice to say, I prefer either the Digilent Digital Discovery or the Digilent Analog Discovery.The choice between 2 and 4 channels is non-trivial. Charlotte came down in favor of 2 channels but 200 MHz - a good choice!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 03:09:14 pm
content: As to the signal generator, that is discussed toward the end of Charlotte's thread. I have the SDG2082 and it is excellent. But you have to read the specs as I point out in that thread. Despite the ability to crank out 80 MHz sine waves, I am still limited to 25 MHz square waves and even lower for ramps.Shorter answer (less than 40 pages): SDS1104X-E unlocked to 200 MHz and SDG2042-X. Truth be known, I would probably leave the scope alone. There are few signals out in the wild that are above 100 MHz or even close. True, you can't display a 100 MHz square wave on a 100 MHz scope but even then, a 20 MHz external uC signal would be quite rare.I seem to be getting along with an unlocked Rigol DS1054Z which turns it into a 100 MHz sccpe. I spend far more time in the kHz range than in the MHz range.If you get to the point where you routinely display signals approaching 100 or 200 MHz, it's time for a much more expensive scope.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 03:28:24 pm
content: There is an amazing world of electronics below 100MHz, or even 20MHz, that would take years to explore. A scope > 100MHz is a "nice to have" unless you have specific reasons to go there.Personally, I find it useful even as a hobbyist that a scope has many channels, in my case 2 analog + a set of digital channels, but I could live with 4 analog alone. Two analog and nothing else would be limiting, even working with an Arduino, in my personal experience.For those times where higher frequencies enter into the picture, perhaps something like the Nano VNA would suffice in the beginning. I don't have one so this is not a recommendation, but that is what I am thinking of, for those few occasions where I need to look at higher frequencies.A lot depends on what you personally like to explore and do, as you have no doubt noticed.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 03:39:48 pm
content: Some random thoughts on the subject of function generators: I have found, in my personal experience with what I like to do, that having 2 or even 3 function generators running at the same time happens frequently (e.g. looking at intermodulation distortion, or doing something where you are using phase differences between two (or more) signals to do things).There are many ways to skin this kind of cat, including using a PC sound card etc., but the long and the short of it is - I would prefer two lower cost / second hand FGs over one "deluxe" model (maybe if the "deluxe" had 2 or more channels it could be a space saving feature...). So, looking ahead, one feature that may be important in the future is the ability for your FG to phase lock with other FGs from the same "family" so you are not ruling out the possibility of using two or more of them in concert.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 04:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: pcolbeck on August 25, 2020, 02:36:02 pmA function generator, signal generator, arbitrary waveform generator, pattern generator are either absolutely necessary or unnecessary - depending on what you need to achieve and what other tools are available.As for scopes, see other threads - but note that the rightclassof scope probe isessential.

author: pcolbeck
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 04:39:26 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 25, 2020, 03:09:14 pmAny reason why you suggest the SDG2042-X over the SDG1032-X? I know the 2042 is 16 rather than 14 bit resolution, will that make a massive difference as its almost twice the price?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 05:47:33 pm
content: Quote from: pcolbeck on August 25, 2020, 04:39:26 pmI guess I tend to recommend what I have. Wait until Tautech weighs in on the differences, he sells the things while I have bought exactly one.He made some comments in Charlotte's thread and the SDG1032-X is the recommended introductory AWG. See Reply 581https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/msg3199056/#msg3199056581I went with the 2xxx series because I wanted a little higher frequency than I could get from the 1xxx series and just because I could. The SDG2082-X works well for me and it's paid for so what it cost is no longer relevant.I don't do analog very much so what I really needed was some kind of digital signal source. Truth told, I can generate a lot of signals with an Arduino... I just thought I should have an analog signal source for some demo projects like the infamous Valentine's Day Heart - see a couple of posts past 581. Tautech provides the link.You could spend time comparing the datasheets to discover the differences.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 08:18:30 pm
content: when i started thinking about buying an oscilloscope, some advice was that it helped with repairs, but it may not be necessary .. the more i learned about this instrument, the more i think it is extremely fascinating to be able to see the waveforms.I took the siglent 1202 and it seems to me a good product, recommended brand

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 06:25:27 pm
content: Quote from: pcolbeck on August 25, 2020, 02:36:02 pmSee attachment

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 07:38:50 pm
content: Seriously, all the combinations you are looking at are good. You can't go wrong with any of those. It's just a matter of working through it until you see why you are selecting what you are selecting. The selection process should be both educational and fun - almost as much as using the products. And better to learn as much as you can on the front end because that will help you select the best products for you. Net, net: you might be at Step 6 with the potential to select your winners, or you might have to go through another wheel cycle or partial wheel cycle until your decision hold firms for a couple daysYou are in the right place to ask questions. Sometimes the answers to the questions will raise more questions, no worries, that's all good. After you are more or less out of questions and the answers to the questions point to toward a winner, sleep on it for a couple days and if it's still clearly the winner with no more significant open questions, go for it. Ultimately, it's your decision so enjoy the process as well as the result. It's like savoring the meal before you even eat the meal.And when you get all this deluxe equipment on your bench you are going to find that it opens the door to a ton of enjoyable learning, testing, fixing, designing, building, and so on and so forth.