Super Glue mini-bottle that doesn't harden by itself while stored capped? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 12:39:14 pm
content: When stored for long (after opening the mini-bottle), even when properly capped, and put back in its original blister + an extra plastic bag, it still dries out by itself after a few months. It is used vary rare, one drop at most, once at a few months.Any tricks to avoid cyanoacrylate based instant glue to harden while stored? Is the reaction reversible?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 12:47:21 pm
content: I use the Loctite Power Gel superglue and have had an opened one in my fridge for a couple of years! It still works perfectly every time I go to use it. Brilliant stuffI really like the Power Gel version as it meets many varied needs. I learnt many years ago that superglue lasts longer when stored in a fridge.Fraser

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 12:53:45 pm
content: QuoteBuy the smallest amount possible,it dont stop it going off once opened,but you waste less.our dollar store equivalent often has packs of 8 small tubes for a quid,one tube is more than enough for most jobs

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 12:58:20 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 20, 2023, 12:39:14 pmPut in small glass jar with a desiccant pack. Has kept mine good for several years.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 01:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 20, 2023, 12:47:21 pmX2. I keep mine in the fridge and I've never had any harden by itself. The tube that I have now has been in there for several years.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 01:16:44 pm
content: Moisture is your problem, not necessarily air.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 02:10:45 pm
content: Thanks, will try to keep the next one moisture free. Maybe in a closed jar, with desiccant or rice, in the refrigerator, too.Meanwhile googled more, and found someone who researched how to change the polymerization speed:https://www.quora.com/What-additives-can-be-added-to-change-the-set-time-of-cyanoacrylate-gluehttp://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/superglue/superglueh.htmOthers were using a needle and petroleum gel to seal the opening, then put the cap over the grease.https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/4061/how-should-i-store-super-glue-to-prevent-it-from-drying-out

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 02:18:29 pm
content: A pet peeve.I've developed 2 solutions-1. Buy tiny tubes, HF and dollar stores sell 3/4" long tubes in packs of 12 that are just use once and pitch. Downside is its just generic thin generic superglue.2. "Stick Fast" brand sold at wood working stores comes in a decent 2.5 oz. plastic bottle and they acknowledge the problem by selling replacement screw on lids and caps in a pack of 2 for 2 bucks.I like some of the advice above but having this stuff double wrapped is kind of a pain for something I use a lot.Next pet peeve- leaky, nasty 2 part epoxy tubes....

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 03:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on April 20, 2023, 02:18:29 pmThis. With two small differences: I only toss the small tube when it gets unusable, and the dollar store around here also sells a gel style super glue in the small tubes.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 10:52:21 pm
content: Not sure how common this brand is in other parts of the world but I've never had a bottle go off.There's one of each on my bench that are at least a few years old, and bottles in my field gear too.Seems to stick well to everything I've triedhttps://www.altronics.com.au/p/t3016-chemtools-surface-insensitive-adhesive-glue-8401-20gm/t3018-chemtools-adhesive-glue-8406-20gm/

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 11:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 20, 2023, 12:39:14 pmUse a more airtight storage such as a jar or rubbery "tupperware", and as above you can use a low humidity location such as a fridge or freezer. Lots of people here saying years... I have some 14 year old Loctite cyanoacrylate that has become ever more viscous but is still usable.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 11:30:18 pm
content: From my experience the dollar store stuff is a lucky dip, more often than not it is utter garbage and a complete waste of time and money. It can harden even when not opened and I've seen other shifty store stuff never cure at all. ie: water.One of the best super glues I have purchased to date has been the Workzone stuff from Aldi, you get two 7 gram tubes for a few bucks and it sticks like mud to a politician. I put all my glues and epoxies in zip-lock bags and keep them in air tight containers.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 11:52:38 pm
content: Polymerization of commercial super glue is base catalyzed. Water can act as a base. Keep it dry. Dry air is not an issue. Cold also reduces reaction rate -- very roughly halving (or more) for each 10°C lower. NB: Note that Loctite thread lockers are are so resistant to air, they cure only when air is removed.My climate is relatively dry. I have stored them in sealed, small canning jars in the freezer for periods over a year. Be sure to let them thoroughly get to room temperature before opening the jars. Drierite and other water absorbers can help, but I don't use them. If you have a tank of dry argon (which I also use to preserve opened wine), flushing the jar will help.Water thin versions may get a little thicker, but still work as adhesives. If you need them to be really thin, fresh is best.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 12:39:29 am
content: Quotenot very well?

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 12:54:22 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on April 21, 2023, 12:39:29 amNo, once stuck it cannot be undone or removed.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 01:21:17 am
content: you must have a different breed of politicians to us,ours are made of teflon.

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 02:02:28 am
content: Muttley and others maybe-Agree about dollar stores- who knows what you're getting or if you'll get the same thing on next visit. However, Harbor Freight is another story and is pretty good at commodity stuff like this.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 05:03:31 am
content: As Fraser said, use gel superglue. Stays workable for much longer and is not that runny as vanila superglue.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 02:24:08 am
content: I do three simple things.First I buy the small tubes. They are OK until opened and that can be years.Two, I wipe them after using. You don't want any glue at the tip that can harden.Three, I store them with the cap as tight as possible and standing VERTICALLY with the CAP FACING UP. That keeps them from leaking past the cap and having the air/moisture come in contact with any that leaks past the cap.This can keep an opened tube good for years. But nothing is perfect and super glue is inexpensive.Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2023, 01:16:44 pm

author: GLouie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 06:01:55 am
content: Storing in the refrigerator has been the answer for me. I buy the multi-packs of small tubes and after opening one, keep it in a heavy (4 mil) mini zip lock bag in the fridge. They last years this way.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 02:02:30 pm
content: what about the stuff with separate activator? Maybe the glue part keeps longer in that case?

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 02:30:24 pm
content: Hobbyking no-name cyanoacrylate has exceeded all of my expectations with self-life: I had to check from old emails and I have ordered the bottles in 2008/2009!On top of that it was dirt cheap, 5 usd for large 50g 1.7oz bottle.I have kept the bottles in fridge but sometimes they have been sitting also half a year in room temperature.Nowadays it seem to be even cheaper but no guarantees if it is same stuff as nearly 15! years ago.https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-super-glue-ca-50g-1-7oz-medium.html

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 05:20:28 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on April 23, 2023, 02:24:45 pmI didn't realize it was only humidity. The relative humidity in my refrigerator is quite a bit higher than room air. Absolute humidity is approximately the the same as as room air most of the time. That is there is no condensation inside the refrigerator except on very humid Summer days.* Do you have a reference to support your view?On the other hand, the standard polymerization reaction is base catalyzed as mentioned before (attachment 1). One might expect that reaction to be affected by temperature. In addition, the ionization of water is strongly affected by temperature:Code:T (°C)Kw (mol2 dm-6)pHpOH00.114 x 10-147.477.47100.293 x 10-147.277.27200.681 x 10-147.087.08251.008 x 10-147.007.00301.471 x 10-146.92Source: https://chem.libretexts.orgThus, at 25°C the concentration of OH- (a base) is almost10X3X the concentration at 0°C. Since CA is in great excess, one would expect that 10-fold decrease in the other reactant to have a significant effect.*EDIT: Assuming you mean open in the refrigerator. I keep my CA sealed in canning jars whether in the refrigerator or freezer. The absolute humidity is the same as when put in the jar, except for any decrease related to initiating the polymerization.EDIT2: Ionization constant is the product of [H+] and [OH-]. Thus it is approximately only 3X not 10X. Fixed in text. Sloppy on a Sunday afternoon. It now agrees with the pOH.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 06:03:43 pm
content: From what I've read, before being opened refrigerated storage can extend the usable life of CA glue by up to 50%. After being opened, air enters the container. Any moisture it brings will condense when cooled and lead to problems, so storing opened containers at room temperature is recommended.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 06:08:29 pm
content: Heat a hot glue stick with a lighter and apply the hot glue to the tip of the tube. Thats what I use and those cheap single use tubes they intend to be tossed out actually last until they are empty that way! I get months of use from those, and I am sure the bigger bottles would last a long time like that too. The glue comes of easy with a twist.

author: silenceisblissfulness
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 12:00:26 am
content: What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 02:24:39 am
content: Quote from: silenceisblissfulness on April 24, 2023, 12:00:26 amadd a pinch of baking soda.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 02:27:41 am
content: Quote from: antenna on April 24, 2023, 02:24:39 amThis is actually a really good tip for repairing plastic parts in general. Bicarbonate of Soda mixed with superglue creates a very hard, sandable, and strong filler.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 03:02:10 am
content: And heating plastics, HDPE in particular, really aids in adhesion. Try superglue on a milk carton, it falls off. Heat the surface with a butane torch first, then try again

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 03:46:14 am
content: Quote from: antenna on April 24, 2023, 02:24:39 amTry ashes, incense ashes, better than baking soda. Saw dust works too. Finer the particle, the better it is.

author: Cecil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 04:30:57 am
content: Two superglue tips that perhaps everyone does not already know: There are activators sold that substantially decrease the cure time. You can apply it to the workpiece before the glue or spray it over top of the glue. But I would never buy it again. It's just acetone which I always have on hand; Second, the glue will last twice as long before hardening in the bottle if stored in a refrigerator.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 04:34:54 am
content: Quote from: all_repair on April 24, 2023, 03:46:14 amIf we really want it to cure fast, I believe we need to add a nucleophile that can initiate the polymerization. The basic nature of the baking soda comes close, but I imagine it is too bulky to act as a nucleophile. The wood ash makes sense as it would be potassium carbonate, the potassium being bigger than sodium and, thanks to HSAB theory, further out of the way of the anion. Someone should try household ammonia, I bet it would work really good. I forgot most everything I once knew about chemistry, so perhaps I am wrong.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 08:14:22 am
content: Wow, as ever this forum is a wealth of information from people far smarter then I am. Been meaning to buy some activator to give it a try, didn't realise I already had a bottle of the stuff

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 09:13:57 am
content: if you want superglue to set faster than a fast thing forget your bicarbonate of soda ,forget your incense ash,just add a bit of skin to it, glue always sticks your fingers together much faster than the bits your trying to glue

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 10:17:53 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on April 20, 2023, 01:00:53 pmGood point. Super Glue is slightly hydroscopic and reacts to moisture.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 10:25:01 am
content: Quote from: gnif on April 24, 2023, 02:27:41 amTalcum powder also works. I stuck two thick outdoor ceramic tiles together for a window sill at the front of the house using talc and super glue mixed into a paste, prior to selling the house 41 years ago. It lasted in the weather outdoors until last year when our old house was completely bulldozed by a new owner. Hard as rock and UV/water proof.A really good glue for general work is polyethylene glue. That stuff is is incredibly strong. Works on plastic etc.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 11:02:43 am
content: Best I've found is a combination of the following.- A good quality superglue (I like 'CA hot stuff' )- Stored in fringe- After every use andbefore placing cap back on, squeeze and release the bottle a few times with it held vertical to clear out the glue currently sitting in the end of the nozzle and give it a wipe. (to do this you need a brand/bottle that allows you to do this and ideally see if any glue is in the nozzle)

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 11:33:10 am
content: Quote from: Cecil on April 24, 2023, 04:30:57 amAre you sure your acetone is not wet? As with most catalyzed polymerizations, the amount of catalyst can affect the outcome. Too much can lead to chain shortening and a weaker polymer. It is possible the accerant you got had a small amount of "base" (Lewis) in acetone as a solvent to prevent having too much catalyst. Maybe it was just wet acetone sold at a huge profit? The accelerants I have used were not acetone based but did have an undefined solvent. It smelled similar to vanilla.I just tried experiments with 1 and 2 drops of liquid CA into 3 ml aliquots of reagent acetone. It just dissolved in both cases. If the acetone was enough to set it off, whatever polymers it formed must have been pretty short and simply redissolved. One drop of water to each caused turbidity. Of course, the water could be precipitating the acetone-initiated polyers. It could also be initiating polymerization of unreacted CA.If one had access to a drying chamber and appropriate vacuum apparatus, you could do the first step, then evaporate the acetone and test whether the residue was still reactive. This post:https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/102488/can-superglue-cyanoacrylite-be-thinned-with-acetone-and-still-hardensuggests that acetone acts as a solvent not a catalyst..I am inclined to agree with the statement on Stackexchange.As for the discussion of bicarbonate, it doesn't take much to promote polymerization. While it is true an excess can be used as a filler, modelers will just rub difficult woods (e.g., spruce) with the powder and then wipe the visible amount off. That leaves enough to give a strong bond, e.g., cap strips on composite spars.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 12:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on April 24, 2023, 11:33:10 amThere are MSDS's showing acetone based activators with the possibility of no other components (SDS No. : 153652) but leaving open a significant 10% mystery ingredients.The activator instructions suggest acetone is just a solvent:"allow the solvent time to evaporate under good ventilation until the surfaces are completely dry""after activation, parts should be bonded within7 days. Contamination of the surface before bonding should be prevented"if the accelerating action was acetone modifying the surface it could last indefinitely, and if the acetone is simply a water carrier/disperser then the effect would not last so long. Both of those could improve or speed up the bond with neat acetone, possibly explaining the positive experiences people are mentioning with neat acetone.I'd agree with you that the acetone is a solvent carrier for the actual activator in the commercial product.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 01:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: all_repair on April 24, 2023, 03:46:14 amThe 'pro' filler sold is glass powder.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 11:37:05 pm
content: Glass can be pretty reactive (it's the SiO2 on the surface). That doesn't usually affect epoxy or polyester, but it might affect CA. I often use a powdered plastic (typically phenolic). Dave Brown has/had "phenolic" micro-ballons. West 410 microlight filler probably will also work. I believe it is phenolic too. I use either for something that is non-reactive, light weight, and sandable.John

author: silenceisblissfulness
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 12:57:47 am
content: Talking of glass, when I was in primary school, they taught us "glass is still fluid, even glass in windows made centuries ago". Even at 7 yrs old, I was skeptical about that. I saw a video over the last year or so where they refuted that and said why - I can't remember why - but it made sense that it's NOT a liquid. (not sure where I saw it - you know how it is with YouTube consumption mixed with TV - it's all a blur of metadata after a while)

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 04:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: Cecil on April 24, 2023, 04:30:57 am"secret" ingredient in many of the CA accelerators is N,N-Dimethyl-p-toluidine. Acetone works only as carrier/diluent.AFAIK some other amines are also used, one of my friends is badly allergic to amines and even small amount of CA accelerator triggered asthma style symptoms.

author: Cecil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 08:46:59 pm
content: I'm not sure if my acetone is wet. I comes in a gallon can from a big box store. It is certainly not watered down as much a fingernail polish remover. I just tried it when I ran out of activator because the activator smelled like acetone. It definitely works on wood but I am pefectly willing to accept the chemical reality that the acetone itself is not the effective ingredient. I can't remember using it on pottery or metal where it was not needed. Since I atomize it am I just mixing it with water vapor?

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 09:43:48 pm
content: Evaporating acetone cools the wood, which condenses water from the air, unless it is quite dry. Are you sure that is not the mechanism? Sure, there is a tautomer of acetone that shows a hydroxyl group, and acetone can participate in the very well known and common aldol type of reaction. But, that is not the most likely mechanism.Attachment 1 shows the specifications for technical grade acetone. Water at 0.5% is a lot.Attachment 2 shows the tautomeric form of acetone with a hydroxyl group.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 10:59:52 pm
content: Acetone eats several plastics, and just like heating HDPE helps glue stick, maybe the acetone is just to disrupt the polymer surface to do the same??

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2023, 06:40:36 am
content: Quote from: Cecil on April 25, 2023, 08:46:59 pmSurprisingly, acetone and water do not form an azeotrope at atmospheric pressure. Acetone boils at 56 °C and water at 100°C. You could do a little experiment. Take a sheet of aluminum foil shiny side up. Add a couple of drops of acetone and let it evaporate slowly. Don't add heat. If there is a foggy reside, add thin CA to it and see if it sets off. Unfortunately, aluminum may also set off CA. So run a control with CA on fresh aluminum. That would show that the residue is more reactive. It does not show that the residue is water. Anything shiny that doesn't cause the CA to set off by itself or melt with acetone can be substituted for the aluminium foil, e.g., some plastics, copper foil.A negative result (i.e., no residue on the foil) means nothing as such a small amount of water may also evaporate at room temperature.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2023, 09:37:13 pm
content: I think it comes down to just having a good quality superglue. Anything sold for industrial uses with a part number is going to be better than a consumer product that likely uses whatever batch of adhesive the reseller could get.I bought a bottle of 3M PR1500 off Amazon in September 2021, and the bottle has an expiration date of September 2022. I have used it quite a lot with no special precautions or storage, sometimes forgetting to put the cap back on for a few minutes. The bottle is about half full and I have not noticed any changes in the properties and I have never had any adhesion issues. Its sold as "High viscosity" but I would say its on the low end for gel type CA. A lot less viscous than honey and a little bit less than corn syrup? I have also never had any issues with it leaving white residues.A bottle is $19 on amazon, which is a bit expensive. But having a reliable and repeatable adhesive is worth it in my opinion.I can also second the use of super glue accelerator. I use Loctite SF 7113 because its explicitly designed for post application on thin interfaces, like gluing together ferrite cores, but I think most of them should work the same. Its really just useful not to be stuck holding two parts together while they cure.Another good adhesive people probably overlook is UV cure epoxy. I use it in a lot of applications where I would otherwise use superglue.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2023, 02:19:08 pm
content: Ignoring the "buy professional products instead of supermarket stuff" advice, there seems to be two opposite options to this classic problem:1) Buy a super expensive overengineered brand bottle, which looks like a space station control room out of a Gillette TV ad. Hope it works out for longer time than the cheap ones; curse extensively when the cap design fails nevertheless (the chances are fifty-sixty).2) Buy a massive megapack of those super tiny 1 gram (or similar) tubes, so you can keep them sealed in their original metal tubes and pop one when you most need it. While the space station glue thing costs you like 5€, you can get 10 of the cheap ones for 2€, so you get 25 uses for the same price, even if the cheap ones failed after each use. It's easier to accept the fact that they go bad once opened, and if you get 2-3 uses out of one tube during the next 1-2 weeks, it's only a plus.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2023, 04:04:18 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on April 26, 2023, 06:40:36 amA year ago it was explained to me the secrets of the accelerator:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4318879/#msg4318879

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2023, 09:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 29, 2023, 02:19:08 pmNa, no need for any fancy expensive space aged bottles. Just get a brand that is decent.'CA hot stuff' comes in a very plain looking bottle.The main reason for the opinion "by a more expensive brand" is that the cheap china junk brands you see everywhere are often diluted with filler.If you want to test a few brands pour 1/2 a teaspoon onto some cotton fabric. It's pretty obvious which one is 'good' and which is 'shit'.You know your CA is good when you accidently spill a good amount onto your jeans and come out of the event with a 2nd degree burn to your leg.