Recommendations for an EEPROM burner? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 01:13:16 am
content: I bought a 64NIC+ adapter for my Commodore 64 (it's basically just a network interface) but it also allows loading programs from an on-board 28 or 32-pin EPROM/EEPROM/Flash when installed in the ROM socket.The drama I have is that I haven't got the means to be able to write my own ROMs. The last time I used a EEPROM burner was over 15 years ago.Any suggestions? Anything in particular I should be looking for in a product?(Details of the 64NIC+ adapter athttp://www.go4retro.com/products/64nic/if anyone is interested)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 02:14:56 am
content: Thanks Wilfred, I'll check them out.Otherwise if I was to get something a little less 'one hung low' any recommended brands?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 04:13:28 am
content: OS support isn't too critical to me. I'd even be happy with an old Serial/Parallel unit of decent quality. I have old machines which run DOS and Windows XP (I even have an old XT floating around).Ideally if I was buying a brand new unit, it would have support for Windows 7 64-bit.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 04:44:03 am
content: This is the one Dave reviewed. Cheap and can test a fair number of 74 / 4000 series logic. Handy to have adapters as well.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/High-Performance-USB-TL866CS-Universal-Programmer-with-7-Adapters-for-12000-ICs-/170898487771?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ca57f9db

author: corax
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 05:13:34 am
content: I recently bought two cheap (well under $100 US) device programmers off of ebay:- Minipro TL866A- Genius G540The TL866a was far better- a lot faster at programming 29F040's and the Windows application was not so prone to crashes.It is also supported by this open-source Linux project:https://github.com/vdudouyt/miniproThis provided a nice simple Linux command-line interface for programming a chip; much easier for me than the Windows GUI when I had a couple hundredflash chips to program.The difference between the TL866A and newer TL866CS seems to be the presence of a port for an in-circuit programming cable on the -A; this was apparently removed on the -CS version.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 05:25:38 am
content: I use one of these GQ-4X. Supports up to Win7http://stores.ebay.ca/EPROM-Programmer/GQ-4X-True-USB-Willem-Programm-/_i.html?_fsub=298606219&_sid=101150119&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322It's a Canadian company.

author: mojoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2015, 02:56:25 am
content: I also have a GQ-4X (had it for more than a couple of years). It works just fine on Win7 x64 and they update the software fairly regularly. If you need something that isn't listed, they have a forum for support and often tell you what to add to the config file for your particular chip.JoeQuote from: pickle9000 on January 10, 2015, 05:25:38 am

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2015, 03:57:38 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 10, 2015, 05:08:04 amI use the BX48 with WIN7 and can highly recommend it. It is working great, very fast, top notch build quality, Bartronix also gives very good support and seem to update chip support on your request very quick.

author: uknerd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2015, 01:23:37 pm
content: I bought a tl866 after daves review its been a fantastic little unit very happy with itSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2015, 03:57:21 pm
content: I'm really pleased with mine too. I've used it for EPROMs, EEPROMS and GALs.I believe that I have the latest version of the software and for a reason that I cannot remember (drivers ?) it does not work on my Windows 8.1 X64 machine. It loads ok.It's fine on my Windows 8 32-bit netbook.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 11:30:26 pm
content: I can get the Batronix BX32P (http://au.element14.com/batronix/bx32p-barlino/programmer-bx32p-barlino-ii/dp/1374014?ost=1374014) from Element14 for AUD$172.00.Seems like a fairly well built and spec'd product for the price.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 11:55:05 pm
content: Quote from: Halon on January 13, 2015, 11:30:26 pmNot better than chinese stuff at 5x of the price. Maybe only faster programming would be an advantage. At such price I would probably look for some wellon instead. Would get much wider device support and decent build quality.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wellon-Programmer-VP-290-VP290-Car-Diagnostic-Tool-Free-Shipping-/181210526081?hash=item2a30fd3181&item=181210526081&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtrDevice support list:http://www.weilei.com/VP-290list.htm

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 01:40:06 am
content: Quote from: Halon on January 13, 2015, 11:30:26 pm+1 for the TL866AThe TL866A price depends on what adapters you need but you might be able to get one for about half the price of the BX32P (I don't have any experience with the B32P - it looks good - maybe it is better in some respect?).http://www.ebay.com/itm/TL866A-USB-Universal-Minipro-Programmer-EEPROM-FLASH-8051-AVR-MCU-GAL-PIC-SPI-/221197938454?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33806caf16- the seller has multiple listings - check to see which listing has the adapters you need- you can also check to see if the TL866A supports the chips you will be using - they have a pretty long list of supported chips- sunwenjun is a good seller; he answers inquiries - send him a question in advance to see if you get a good reply

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 02:00:25 am
content: Adapters can be bought separately, they are not programmer specific in 99% of the cases. One shall also check what are those branded adapters sold at ridiculous price. For example, elnec sells so-8 atapters for ~80 Euro with exactly the same brand and model zif socket as few bucks worth Chinese adapters.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 02:43:51 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 13, 2015, 11:55:05 pmI have to disagree. The Wellon product just looks cheap and nasty.On a face value comparison:Wellon VP-290Costs AUD$206.66 deliveredSupports 15,845 Devices (as at December 2014)Made in ChinaWarranty ??Software supports Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7 (32 & 64-bit)Batronix BX32PCosts AUD$172.00 deliveredSupports 22,856 Devices (as at June 2013)Made in Germany5 Year WarrantySoftware support for all versions of Windows from Windows 98SE to Windows 8 (32 & 64-bit) plus Linux and Mac OSXI don't see the point of even considering the one hung low product. Am I missing something?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:06:03 am
content: Wellon have good construction, I own higher end model and internal construction is good, enclosure is solid. I have borrowed VP-290 predecessor VP-280 too.22,856 Devices my assYeah, like in the picture attached. Chinese also "upgrade" chip count the same way but seem to have a bit more conscience compared to "Germans". I don't see anything except mainstream flash/eeprom IC's in the Batronix list. Wellon supports microcontrollers, PAL/GAL, logic IC test... Even TL866A have wider "real" support list than Batronix.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:10:47 am
content: My guess they counted all subcategory chip "variants" under "main" category which are already almost the same. Just checked, Wellon didn't bother to count every speed and temperature grade of flash IC's in their list.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:14:02 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 14, 2015, 03:06:03 amSorry you're right, that figure isactually23,924 devices as of 23/12/2014 ;-) My mistake.See:http://www.batronix.com/pdf/BX32PBarlino-II-DeviceList.pdfEven without GAL/PAL/PLD support (which is clearly identified in the product brief) it still beats the Wellon. For a comparison between the different models, see:http://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer/BX32P/index.htmlQuote from: wraper on January 14, 2015, 03:10:47 amJust like Wellon did in the link you provided? You'll find it's common across most manufacturers.I'm sorry, I just can't see your logic in paying more for an inferior product. Regardless of device support (both support the devices I use), based on cost and build quality alone, the Batronix still comes out on top.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:24:29 am
content: Quote from: Halon on January 14, 2015, 03:14:02 amDon't see a bit of deference in counting methodology? How they manage multiply Wellon list by 4

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:55:37 am
content: Just get me right. I'm not saying that you must get that Wellon or whatsoever. Just that Batronix definitely is not best value for money for hobby use as it won't give you anything over cheapo TL866, likely with higher reliability though. And unless you'll be programming some exotic chip which Batronix do not support anyway, unlikely that you'll catch some showstopper bug in Chinese software. Batronix cannot be named honest on advertised chip count too.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 04:36:57 am
content: Even though I'm a hobbyist, I would still rather pay a little more and get something half decent that will last. I'm generally not a fan of Chinese products unless they are made by a reputable company (I'd have no problems buying a Fluke meter for example even though it's made in China).I am very wary of stuff on ebay, especially when they can't even get their English right. Using your Wellon product as an example, straight away it's over $30 more expensive than a reputable brand named product. In terms of build quality, the Batronix is a nice solid aluminium construction which I much prefer over the crappy plastic ones. I can almost bet (without having seen inside either) that the build quality and attention to detail is far greater in the Batronix products as well. It uses nice solid USB Type B connectors which I much prefer over mini connectors.There is also no need for an external power supply on the BX32P for any of the supported devices, where as with the Wellon product, some require external power (probably from an equally crappy Chinese power adapter).Maybe if the Wellon VP-290 was AUD$70 or something, OK, maybe it would be worth a look at. But as it stands, it seems over-priced for what it is.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 11:59:17 am
content: Quote from: Halon on January 14, 2015, 04:36:57 amIt is not overpriced unlike Batronix. Strange that it does not require external power because some older ICs require quiet a lot of power when programming. Power supply which comes with my VP-490 is not crap. Mini USB is quiet robust, maybe even more robust than type B because it have more mounting place on the PCB regardless of smaller size. And that aluminium enclosure looks like off the shelf extruded enclosure indeed, not something custom made.QuoteWith 2 models higher product which cost USD 505 ex VAT. I counted supported ICs in the list, just counted almost best case per page and multiplied by page count. Got around 4500 ICs which still remains highly inflated number as many pages have only like 5 IC's with zillion of temperature/speed grades.EDIT: just noticed that they use term "Supported chip variants" on their website and device list pdf when advertising total supported count. Quiet a marketing invention.Few pictures to disprove that wellon have crap construction:

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 05:23:37 pm
content: BTW wellon is cheaper on aliexpresshttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Wellon-Programmer-VP-290-VP290-ECU-Chip-Tunning-VP-290-VP290-Programmer-Wellon/2012698415.html

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 06:08:28 pm
content: The Batronix programmer can still supply up to 25 volts using nothing more than the USB port. It's not that strange at all.As for the construction photos you posted, I'll admit that it does look quite reasonable. But I'm not an EE so I can't really spot any design quirks.Quote from: wraper on January 14, 2015, 11:59:17 amI have no idea what you meant by the comment. Makes no sense to me. I still prefer type B as most of my gear uses the same lead. I've had mini and micro USB connectors wear out over time with repeated connection/disconnection.It's clear that we both have very different opinions when it comes to the overall quality of a product and that's fine.I ended up purchasing the Batronix product as it was much better than the others I saw in that sub-$200 price range. I downloaded the software and it's straight forward to use and does what it needs to, and more importantly, it runs on all my systems.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 06:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: Halon on January 14, 2015, 06:08:28 pmThis is not about voltage but current capability. When running FPGA, Voltage converters, pin driver circuits and power hog IC being programmed, it can require quiet big current and 500 mA from USB might become not enough.QuoteIt means that mini usb usually have 4 mounting tabs. USB-B only 2 in the middle of the sides. It is fairly easy to break USB-B connector off the PCB, and I've seen enough of such.Just noticed that Batronix use exactly the same ZIF sockets as Wellon programmers.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 08:25:14 pm
content: You'll find most computers and hubs will provide more than 500mA these days. The USB hub in my Dell monitor for example will provide up to 1.5 amps which is more than ample.Taking all your comments into consideration, I'm sorry you just haven't sold me. Even with the pricing from AliExpress, I'd still rather pay the extra $13 for the other unit. On paper, it's just a better product. Comparable brand-name units are well over the $400 mark. There is a lot of value in both the Batronix and Wellon units but why settle for a lesser product over such a small cost? Even the aluminium case itself is worth the additional cost, not to mention the warranty and better software.It seems that you're biased towards a product you already own. Post-purchase rationalisation is very common.Anyway, I'll post a mini tear down once I receive it for those who are interested in the Batronix BX32P. It'll make for an interesting comparison I think. Or we both loan our units to Dave who can do teardowns and comparisons in a 'shootout' episode (Dave, interested?).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:20:10 pm
content: QuoteOn paper it is Batronix which is worse because it supports less ICs. And frankly their marketing innovation of counting ICs supported just pisses me off. First page of their chip support list is just hilarious, to count the same IC in the same package as 60 different IC variants is just something unheard before. Only advantage would be funky aluminium enclosure, although I wouldn't be happy if piece of metal is laying around on the desk when I'm working with some board under voltage. If you ever need to program some microcontroller or more exotic memory chip, you will need to buy another programmer. As of TL866A, you could buy almost 3 of them at Batronix price and if it fails just buy another one. And it supports more ICs too. Dave made a review/teardown of it in some 4xx episode. Actually is quiet good internally. Maybe you are not familiar with programmer market but wider IC support is worth A LOT. The same hardware with some additional 10% IC support enabled can easily cost 2-3x of the price. Just like with oscilloscope when option cost (which is already implemented but disabled) may cost more than actual oscilloscope itself.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:28:09 pm
content: QuoteI recommended Wellon because I know that they are good and offer more functionality for the same money. Few of my friends use Wellons for a long time. And Wellon exists since 1998, actually longer than Batronix.QuoteMy Unit is VP-490 (VP-590 for china market which cost me $340 IIRC instead of 2x more for worldwide versionhttp://www.kanda.com/products/Wellon/VP-590.html). You won't find it on their English website but it works with English software. It supports a lot more, especially more exotic IC's and have fully universal drivers on every pin. VP-290 have a bit simpler hardware with simpler pin drivers. I cannot loan it because it is workhorse and I would need to buy something else instead.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 14, 2015, 09:28:09 pmI'm pretty sure the Wellon software is still developed in Canada. The story I heard was that the programmer contracted for a large company and he retained ownership of the code. When the contract failed he started Wellon with or using a Chinese manufacturer.In any case they are good programmers both in quality and software.

author: nadona
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 06:46:42 am
content: I don't recommend GQ-4X.Minutes ago I pulled out two 27C256 EPROMs from my DMM to see if newer version of firmware solve the problem but it miserably failed to write them

author: Harrkev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 07:00:08 pm
content: Hi. Newbie to the forum here, and I have not used a programmer since my University days.Is there a consensus as to which low-cost USB-based programmers work well with Windows 8.1 x64? That is my ONLY computer right now, and I do not really have the space for another one.I don't want to drop $50 on a TL866 just to find out that it does not play nicely on x64. Any suggestions on this?Thanks.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 09:20:08 pm
content: Quote from: Harrkev on January 15, 2015, 07:00:08 pmYour guess is as good as mine Harrkev. Unless they specifically specify that it works, I wouldn't take the risk. Just yesterday I was trying to get some software for a cheap Chinese product to work (it wasn't a programmer) and it would sometimes work under Windows 8 whilst sometimes it just didn't load, no errors, no obvious reason, just didn't work.I guess with the bigger companies, you're paying for that extra support and application development. For example, Batronix claim to update their software every few weeks (new IC support, app fixes etc...). Their freeware application supports Windows 8 32 and 64-bit (http://www.batronix.com/shop/software/prog-express/index.html)That was another reason I chose the Batronix product over the others: Their software support. I can use it either on my main desktop machine or on just about an other computer I own.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 12:21:23 am
content: My own experience is that the TL866 software does not work with my Windows 8.1 x64 system. The software loads ok and you can pick devices, etc but for some some reason that I don't remember, I ended up having to use it on my 32 bit netbook. Maybe it was a driver issue but I'm really not sure.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 12:58:57 am
content: There is x64 driver included fer TL866, so likely should work. As of not working, how long time ago it was? Probably they fixed software since then.

author: Harrkev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 03:48:13 am
content: Quote from: Halon on January 15, 2015, 09:20:08 pmThe Batronix "low cost" devices don't seem to support PAL/GAL devices. Kind of a deal-breaker for me. Thanks for the reply, though.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 08:31:04 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 16, 2015, 12:58:57 amAbout a year ago. I've now got the next version (latest) on the netbook so I'll try it on the x64 system and see what happens.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 12:53:49 pm
content: I had another look at this. The reason that I didn't get it working was that I decided not to trust their drivers on that machine. Today though, I downloaded the latest software via the Help menu option, installed it and accepted the driver. It now works fine on my Windows 8.1 x64 system.

author: Harrkev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 01:35:47 am
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on January 16, 2015, 12:53:49 pmHey. Thanks. In that case, I will get one in the next week or two. I appreciate it.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 12:16:29 pm
content: Thanks for this thread. I have been needing to purchase a new programmer myself.In the early 90's I bought a MOD-MEP-4 from JDR Microdevices. It is a 4 gang programmer and has a ISA card to interface to the pc. Designed for 286 machines but did run on 386 and 486 below 500 MHz's. Down side I ran out of old computers

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 12:40:34 am
content: Quote from: Harrkev on January 16, 2015, 03:48:13 amThat's right, support for PAL/GAL start from the BX48 programmer. Although I found a quote that might still be of interest to you from another thread:Quote from: tulipman on April 17, 2014, 01:02:25 pmOriginal thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/batronix-bx48-universal-programmer/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 01:53:09 am
content: Quote from: Halon on January 19, 2015, 12:40:34 amWrote member who just registered, dug 2 years old tread and made his single post ever to advertise that he have a one to sell...But realistically, I would just prefer programmer which supports more IC's out of the box. For the price similar of BX48 Batego II which seems to be top of theirs single socket models, for example, one could buy Wellon VP-896 which support virtually everything (100K+ ICs). Their top BX48 Batego II seems to have pretty short support list considering those inflated 50k should be divided by at least 4 to be comparable with others. The sad thing is that Batronix do not even have better model with wider IC support, all they do have are multi socket BX48 derivatives. Therefore if you don't know what IC you would need to program tomorrow that is not good choice at all.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 04:45:30 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 19, 2015, 01:53:09 amI don't think you're making the point you think you are.All I can recommend to anyone looking to buy one is do your homework (you should be anyway). I know it sounds obvious but so many people don't. There is no one product that is "the best". It depends on your needs and priorities.For me, I was after a good quality product with well-written and comprehensive software. The warranty and support was also fairly important. I probably won't be programming any "exotic" devices but the option to have them added is useful but since the device I purchased currently supports just under 24,000 devices, it was a good starting point.Price was less of an important factor for me but I still had a rough price range in mind. I didn't need it for PALs/GALs or PLDs so it was a feature that wasn't high up on my priority list.Consumer reviews can be useful but it pays to verify details from independent sources. Claims are sometimes unfounded, assumed or the user simply doesn't know what they are talking about. YouTube is great as you can see the items in action.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2015, 07:12:48 am
content: So my programmer arrived today (Batronix BX32P) along with a Lawtronics ME5E UV eraser. I've had both out of the box for about 30 minutes and my first impressions are positive.The programmer is extremely well built and solid as a rock. The aluminium case feels thick and sturdy. Rubber gaskets wrap around the device which also acts as anti-slip feet. The entire thing just looks and feels great. The software that came with it includes a couple of different versions depending on what you want to do. For simple jobs, the (freely downloadable) Prog-Express is very easy to use. The more advanced Prog-Studio also ships with the device which is a far more advanced and comprehensive tool.It also came with Eagle Layout Editor for designing PCB's, an ANSI C compiler and Batronix Ghost-User which allows the user to automate user interactions.The eraser is just a basic UV light box. I was a little disappointed that it didn't ship with a power lead but it takes a standard IEC anyway. There is no on/off switch apart from a micro-switch inside the unit. When the tray is closed, the UV source is on. It did the job of erasing an EPROM in just a couple of minutes. Not bad for the price. Solid construction.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 10:32:59 pm
content: Could someone give me a review of the Wellon vp 290, beyond the "Fords or Nissans are better" kinda kindergarten stuff that was going on in most of the thread?I'm at the point where I think it's time to get an eprom burner, and I really need PLD programming too, so nice and german as it is, the Batronix won't do. I'm a bit worried about software quality and support (Windows 7 only in 2016 spells "abandonware", even when I do in fact have, and intend to keep, a Win 7 notebook on hand..)