Help required to further debunk some bullshit about being alergic to radio w! :D - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ccs46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:06:51 am
content: This has been debunked many times but people still believe it. As long as people believe they have this condition they will suffer from it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:50:52 am
content: Related reading:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebohttp://mybroadband.co.za/news/wireless/11099-massive-revelation-in-iburst-tower-battle.html

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 01:02:32 pm
content: After many, many, many studies there is not only no evidence supporting anybody being allergic to radio waves but also no mechanisms that could cause such a reaction. There is however plenty of evidence supporting the existence of hypochondria, Munchausen syndrome, and Munchausen by proxy. Given that I'd say everybody who still claims to be allergic to cellphones and wifi (but rarely have a problem with microwave ovens) doesn't actually believe it but they like the attention of claiming it.

author: ccs46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 01:06:46 pm
content: Oh ok.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 01:24:21 pm
content: Quote from: ccs46 on July 31, 2015, 01:06:46 pmThat was just my opinion, partially built up on a pure belief. As much as it's a shame I should feel the need to say this on here I'm not trying to tell you what to think lol

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 03:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on July 31, 2015, 01:02:32 pmAny reference?Edit: found it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 03:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on July 31, 2015, 03:11:48 pmhttp://www.who.int/peh-emf/en/contains the largest analyses of studies to date, I haven't found anything that's been verified/successfully recreated that disagrees with their conclusions. Most of their work is reviews of independent (from them) studies and articles and not their own original research.I don't know what your politics says about the trustworthiness of the WHO but everyone else seems to have given up supporting actual research into the matter in the domestic environment, which to me also says something.Quote from: zapta on July 31, 2015, 03:11:48 pmI didn't think linking to a wiki would be good enough*, wasn't sure about the WHO thing really but linking to the actual articles generally just gives you the abstract and a paywall lol.*Though when it comes to science and tech articles I'll admit they tend to be more balanced than elsewhere on there.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 04:50:13 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on July 31, 2015, 03:49:53 pmBad day at the office today?;-)

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 05:05:41 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on July 31, 2015, 04:50:13 pmSorry, I just personally know people who wouldn't trust the WHO if they said water was wet.And yeah, also one of those days.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 05:24:35 pm
content: No talk of banning guns though. *lights the blue touch paper*

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 06:06:15 pm
content: I am highly allergic to electricity anything over a 100 mA I would find very detrimental to my health.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 07:47:30 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on July 31, 2015, 06:06:15 pmWe are all effected at some level. If people claim ability to sense much lower levels it should be too difficult to test, just like a hearing test.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 07:55:17 pm
content: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/21/the-town-that-banned-wi-fiRead this article... right to the end.

author: ccs46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 08:08:51 pm
content: She says it's power lines, I'm guessing it's the magnetic field, one flaw in her statement, SHE LIVES IN A MAGNETIC FIELD! it's called EARTH! She would probably experience stronger magnetic field from the earth than from those power lines.It is in her head, if she thinks she has it, she will continue to believe she has it.

author: BillW50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 08:14:05 pm
content: Quote from: ccs46 on July 31, 2015, 09:06:51 amI don't know about being debunk many times, as some people are sensitive to the strangest things. And as for beliefs, check this out. Hypnotize someone and tell them your finger is a lit cigarette and touch your finger on their arm. And their arm will automatically blister because their brain believed it.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 08:17:30 pm
content: My ex told me I was broke one pay day, i knew it was carp till I opened my wallet to find her IOU

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 08:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on July 31, 2015, 07:47:30 pmI'm absolutely convinced I can somehow "detect" turned on CRTs from other rooms. So are the people who know me given that if I say I think one of there's is left on they either tell me they know or go turn it off lol. There're a few other things I seem to pick up like that too (bigger or higher frequency transformers for example). But I'm also pretty convinced I'm just subconsciously hearing a high pitched tone coming from them that my brain interprets as some sort of Spidey sense.Quote from: BillW50 on July 31, 2015, 08:14:05 pmYou have any sources for that? Videos or something like a paper studying cases of it?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 08:49:23 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on July 31, 2015, 08:25:33 pmIt's definitely the sound. CRTs typically produce about 17kHz which is not audible to most people over 30 so either you're young or just have good hearing.

author: BillW50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on July 31, 2015, 08:25:33 pmOh gosh, I just heard that probably this month on a radio program. I might be able to find out who said it since I have the podcasts of the ones that it could have been. But just asking most hypnotists might tell you the same thing.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on July 31, 2015, 08:49:23 pmMakes a bit of sense, I can pick up one of those "The Mosquito" anti child devices straight off. But it's a bit strange how I can hear them but only "sense" CRTs iykwim.QuoteI've got... strange hearing, I was born with undeveloped middle ears so it's not very good in the human vocal range and no one seems to be sure why it's any good anywhere else. On the upsides I apparently won't suffer from age related hearing loss so yeah!!!

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:31:25 pm
content: Speaking of radio allergies...I have a severe allergic reaction to tax. Every time I do my tax form, my heart rate increases and my breathing starts to get erratic. When it comes to writing the tax payment cheque, my hands shake proportionally to the amount being written.I think I should be excused medically in so far as paying tax goes.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on July 31, 2015, 08:25:33 pm"On January 8, 1945, while under hypnosis, a second degree burn wasinduced on the dorsum of the patient's left hand in the followingman­ner: Both hands were carefully examined and no abnormality wasnoted. The patient was again made to re-enact his battle experi­ence,and at the point where the shell ex­ploded he was told that a smallparticle of molten shell fragment glanced off the dorsum of his hand.Coincident with this, the ex­aminer gently brushed the dorsum of thepatient's hand with a small flat file (of the type commonly used inopening ampules). The file was at room temperature. There wasimmediate pallor in a circumscribed area about one centimeter indiameter at the point where the file made contact with his hand. Aftera period of twenty minutes a narrow red margin gradually developedabout the area of pallor. Hypnosis was terminated at this point. Onawakening, the patient ap­peared puzzled and asked if he had beensmoking while asleep. He complained of pain in his hand and said thathe felt as if he might have burned himself with a ciga­rette. One hourafter the suggestion had been given early blister formation wasnoted."MONTAGUE ULLMAN, M. D., HERPES SIMPLEX AND SECOND DEGREE BURN INDUCEDUNDER HYPNOSISAMERICAN JOURNAL. OF PSYCHIATRY, Vol. 103, No. 6, May, 1947

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 09:35:16 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on July 31, 2015, 09:33:37 pmThanks.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 10:11:31 pm
content: As far as I know there is little/no resource on how non-ionizing radiation effect humans. (If It doesn't kill you, you are ok. right ?)However we pretty much know human brain is sensitive to electricity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_direct-current_stimulation)I can't say they are right, but I can't disprove them either

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 10:20:28 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on July 31, 2015, 10:11:31 pmIt's not that there's no resources, it's that apart from the heating effect there's no evidence towards any other effects*. The general consensus is that if it's not cooking you it's not doing any harm.*And our understanding of EMR is very, very good. It could be tempting to say pretty much complete. Of course this doesn't count out any effects so far unproposed and tested for. But we can say for a fact the claimed health detriments either don't exist or have other causes.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 10:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on July 31, 2015, 09:35:16 pmMost of us will be able to sense this electro magnetic energy

author: ccs46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 02:41:41 am
content: Quote from: zapta on July 31, 2015, 10:30:14 pmBecause it's not the beam you are feeling, the beam heats up the water molecules in your skin, it creates that intense warming feeling, similar to opening a oven door.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 02:43:04 am
content: Quote from: ccs46 on July 31, 2015, 08:08:51 pmDon't blind yourself to alternate hypotheses. Self-delusion/mental illness is certainly one plausible explanation. Some other undiagnosed, or even as yet unidentified, condition is another. Medical science doesn't have everything figured out yet, and medical training often leads to ruling out the unlikely even when other explanations aren't forthcoming.A while back there was a guy in Seattle who started wasting away. Doctors were clueless. He was persistent. After a considerable time, someone said "sound like lyme disease." It was, contracted on a visit to the east coast, but only manifesting after he returned home. Had he seen a doctor on the east coast, he would likely have been properly diagnosed in short order.

author: ccs46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 02:46:18 am
content: Quote from: eas on August 01, 2015, 02:43:04 amAs others have said, shes likely under the nocebo effect, Someone could make her admit and believe almost anything if you gave them enough time.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 09:27:59 am
content: 100mA would be detrimental to any ones health especially if routed through the heart.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 09:51:04 am
content: If only you could find one of the people claiming to be allergic to radio to sit down an EMC test room and actually put some science to it.Although I do not think there are any immediate effects caused by daily used low power electromagnetic fields, it should not be neglected as harmless in the long term. We've only exposed the younger generations to a higher dose of electromagnetic fields over the last few decades.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 10:23:31 am
content: Istr a while ago a community started complaining of symptoms when a new antenna tower was installed, but it turned out it hadn't been turned on!There is an opposite to the Placebo effect that can be just as powerful.People fear what they don't understand, and lack of education, sloppy journalism and religion just make things worse.Nothing to see here.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 10:43:54 am
content: Having met quite a few people with "modern living chemical allergies" unfortunately many do fit in the nocebo category. The 'allergy' often crosses many widely different chemical groups and is often precipitated by some well noticed 'initiating event' e.g. Sick Building Syndrome and, unlike most identifiable allergies e.g. peanuts, beestings where they typically only notice the first allergic response not the sensitising exposure/s.Medical science is far from complete , especially in matters of the mind.Please note the "nocebo effect' is NOT malingering. In malingering it is a conscious act, nocebo it is subconscious.Many illnesses can also be 'societally defined' e.g. Neurathenia' in the 1800s and Repetitive Strain Injury 'epidemics' in the 1980s.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 01:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on August 01, 2015, 09:51:04 amFromthis related articleand what else I've read it seems they absolutely refuse to be tested.QuoteActually I think the dose of EM fields long ago, near the beginning of the radio era, wasmuch, much higherthan today.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2015, 02:29:56 pm
content: But 700 kHz has not the heating effect on water that 2.4 GHz has. We're also completely surrounded by 50/60Hz fields for a long time.