New Keysight Bench Multimeter - EDU34450A - 5.5 Digit, Colour - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: killingtime
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 10:21:05 am
content: Keysight have a new bench multimeter for sale. EDU34450A.It's for the educational sector. Manual \ Specifications and pictures attached.It has a wide & thin form factor like a modern DSO. Useful if you have limited bench space or want to move it around (no battery though).The electrical specs seem just average for a 5.5 digit multimeter.Things I noticed;.Only a 3A current range..Thermistor temp measurement (not thermocouple).. Big colour display.. USB and LAN connectivity as standard w\free software. SCPI.. No options to enable (that's a first..). Street price between 660 and 870 GBP (inc. tax).http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90002.pdf

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 10:26:16 am
content: They really should drop this black design trend, that's awful.Lets wait for the hacks!

author: killingtime
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 11:40:51 am
content: They're bringing out other instruments in this colour too. Only one of the instruments in the picture below is a DSO.I think I know why the meter only comes with a 3A input. It's designed to complement the power supply in the EDU range, which has a max output of 3A/90W.Attached.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 11:43:59 am
content: Well, they're definitely reusing the front facia, maybe a cost saving in tooling?Anyway, is great to see Keysight competing with lower cost brands, we only gain with it

author: SimonD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 12:49:41 pm
content: And here you can find the service guide:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90014.pdf

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 05:38:06 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on March 11, 2021, 10:26:16 amI like it a lot better than the pukey beige of the past, or the light beige that ages into pukey beige with age. I dunno why people dislike the black so much!

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 06:09:29 pm
content: To me the biggest drawback is no histogram or trend plotting. Would BenchVue have these features that I could just view externally?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 06:48:23 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 11, 2021, 05:38:06 pmI dislike it, it smacks of a try-hard attempt to make the brand appear more "trendy" or "cool".From a practical pov, black shows the dust much more than beige, so they'll need cleaning much more often...If the reason for using black plastic were to be something like better long term UV stability I guess I could learn to love it.

author: Algoma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 06:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on March 11, 2021, 10:26:16 amSame thing happened with Workstations back in the 90's / Early 2000 .. everything went black and silver now for over 20 years, including servers. Compaq/HP even changed all their equipment racks from beige to Black over 20 years ago. I guess test equipment is now following the trend.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 07:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: SimonD on March 11, 2021, 12:49:41 pmAlso:EDU34450A 5½ Digit Digital Multimeter User’s Guidehttp://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90002.pdfEDU34450A 5½ Digit Digital Multimeter Programming Guidehttp://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/EDU34450-90013.pdfThese manuals might not be officially released yet, and they might go through a few more revisions to clean them up before they are officially released. The properties of the first version of the EDU34450-90002.pdf manual that I found had a creation date of 1/19/2021, the one there currently has a creation date of 3/8/2021.See also this earlier thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-new-instruments/

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 11:04:54 pm
content: Not everything is black or beige - go look at the old Keithleys!(at least they don't go a nasty yellow like the beige ones)

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 03:36:03 am
content: I kinda like the front panel. The color doesn't bother me in fact I might end up preferring it. What I really like, at least from what the pictures imply, is the nice ergonomic layout with large button and large on screen text. I can see this panel design growing on people as they use it.The specs I will have to think about! I'd like to see HP take the same stance that Tesla and others are doing with over the air (or net) updates, that actually improve their products. In all honestly I'm a bit tired of the "make them pay for already built in features" and the general lackluster support. Rather I'd like to see Keysight actually improve the meter and its capabilities over time.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 06:34:10 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on March 12, 2021, 03:36:03 amYes! I’m liking the “compact DSO” form factor, especially since it gives it a gigantic display. (Isn’t this the largest display ever on a DMM??)Quote from: wizard69 on March 12, 2021, 03:36:03 amNonononono to frequent updates! That approach just incentivizes manufacturers to spend even less up-front on proper firmware programming and debugging. We don’t wanna be their beta testers, not to mention that in some environments (admittedly, not education), a firmware update might require procedures to be recertified...

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 08:38:11 am
content: The large display has some merits. However it is still relatively small for something like a demo experiment where a teacher does the experiment and students are to read the number from a distance (e.g. some 5 m).There are some meters specially for this purpose with a large display (e.g. 57 or 100 mm 7 seg LED). The screen may be large enough, if the have a suitable display mode, even if this means dropping a digit or 2.Quite often one does not really need the high resolution, but it is more about the ability to also resolve small voltages - in this respect I liked the HP3478 5.5 digit meter with a 30 mV range.The main use for a large screen with a DMM on the bench would be a trend chart.It would be kind of disappointing not to have it in a DMM in the form factor of a scope.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 10:02:16 am
content: To be really useful for educational purposes these instrumentsshould at least have a VGA output.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 10:34:13 am
content: There are different educational uses: demonstration to many viewers (which are not that cost sensitive) and hand on experiments for the students which are more cost sensitive. The new series seems to try to serve both sides.At least at the university in Germany many of the instruments one uses as a student for hands on experiments where more like older models, like used before in research and thus in parts also former really good ones. So one got a pretty good look at old test instruments - in parts this was quite instructive, as the old instruments usually include a good instruction. It still makes sense to also learn to use modern instruments - who needs a differential voltmeter in 2020.If they have a good LAN interface, it may be good enough to attach a small computer there and have a large screen from there. VGA is slowly phased out - modern monitors start to no longer support VGA - more like display port only in the lower cost end.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 10:41:35 am
content: Quote from: ResistorRob on March 11, 2021, 06:09:29 pmIt would probably be fairly easy to support it in TestControllerhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/, then you would have all the histogram and trend plotting you could wish for and a lot more.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 11:07:59 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on March 12, 2021, 10:34:13 amWe just had a visit from the Keysight rep this morning at the training center I work at. I asked about this, and basically, they do offer VGA output modules for all the scope models above the entry level series. The idea is that the teacher has a higher end unit, while the student units are simpler and cheaper. With that said, the student devices do have USB, so he said most teachers these days connect to a PC via USB and then share the PC’s screen to the projector.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 11:54:48 am
content: Quote from: tooki on March 12, 2021, 11:07:59 amDon't want to rain on anybody's parade, but...With Keysight you need at least 2000X series to be able to add VGA/LAN module to it.That module alone costs as much as entry level scope.And 2000X is really very primitive scope by today's standards. On the other side of the spectrum, for instance, you have MicSig that has more capability, 10X more memory, higher resolution, and HDMI connector to connect to big screen. And they are very small and compact on the desk. Perfect for this task.Cheaper Micsigs cost as much as Keysight VGA module alone (without the scope).

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 11:55:19 am
content: Some instruments are offering virtual display+control panels on their web UI. My RTB2004 does this (extremely well, and without any plugins etc needed), and apparently the DMM6500 does a similar thing (haven't tried it yet, my unit is delayed in transit). I believe that the older KS multimeters did too, but with some java thing that doesn't work these days?Seems more convenient to use the PC they are already presenting from than try and find a VGA adaptor or a HDMI cable, just load up a browser window (though the instrument needs to be on the network).Edit: DMM6500 arrived, web UI is pretty laggy compared to the RTB2004 (a few Hz update rate, vs the 10s of Hz that the scope can do), but would still be perfectly usable for a demo. (Also will be useful for the calibration I need to do on my SMU - can have the web-GUI meter display window right next to the GPIB comms tool I'm using to enter the cal commands).

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 02:05:38 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 12, 2021, 06:34:10 amWell lets make the updates optional then! The one thing, that screams out with this meter is that a lot of capability was apparently left out of the unit. Maybe that is a time to market thing, or marketing stupidity or who knows; what I do know is that beautiful display could be doing a lot more.Beyond that if the unit is truly targeting the EDU market, certification or validation should not matter. I do understand the horrors of firmware updates in a regulated environment so I'm not dismissing that, however Keysight has a whole line of instruments that can be as stone. On the flips side many users simply don't care and the EDU line would be a good way to get improvements out to users that want them. More so most "education" related users, often on extremely tight budgets, would welcome better support. Keysight might actually increase sales if schools knew that the hardware will remain viable for years.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 04:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 12, 2021, 11:54:48 amProbbaly VGA because it's easier/cheaper to implement than HDMI, and probably comes for free in the applications processor they are using.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 04:54:51 pm
content: Quote from: killingtime on March 11, 2021, 10:21:05 amThat seems rather expensive. The 34461A, which is a full fledged 6.5 digit DMM, costs around 980 GBP.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 05:41:54 pm
content: When I was looking the 34461A was slightly more than 980 if you included VAT, but yeah the new one is still a bit pricey for 5.5 digits. Alternatively DMM6500 has a decent sized screen and sw isn't crippled and is £850+VAT without any discount.

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 08:07:46 pm
content: yes BenchVue will do the job

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 03:46:59 am
content: I was looking at purchasing one these today, because on the Keysight Live stream they said they are now on sale. The only place I could find was Mouser for $696 and it said out of stock.Between that and their server crashing because ElectroBoom announced the contest it seems like kind of a failed launch.If you don't know ElectroBoom is the "electronics" channel where the guy does stuff like stick his tongue in a light socket. So Keysight got flooded by a mob of people who were totally clueless what the gear was and asking in the chat questions like what the difference between the Keysight power supply and a PC power supply is. It's sad because the winners of this nice equipment will probably go mostly to people who have no idea what it even is.Plus since it crashed the server half the people couldn't even enter the contest.You would think they would make it easy to order with the hype of the launch. For example I can't imagine saying "Here's our new iPhone" it launches today... then not a single place is selling it.Before Fungus calls me a Siglent fanboy again, let me say that I actually like Keysight and even bought a couple of their coffee mugs yesterday, lol

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 04:37:52 am
content: Quote from: rvalente on March 11, 2021, 10:26:16 amWhat is there to hack?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 04:38:42 am
content: Quote from: ResistorRob on March 11, 2021, 06:09:29 pmAgreed, huge oversight.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 04:46:00 am
content: As discussed in this video:This meter has a big issue in auto ranging mode with high 50Hz input noise, the input switching relay goes crazy in Fast and Medium modes with the probes just sitting on the bench.And AFAIK there is no way to adjust the NPLC in it.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 09:30:33 am
content: With a lot of AC background autoranging can be a little tricky: the choice of range must take care of the peak values, not to saturate. So the average DC reading alone is not good enough to decide which range is best. A cheap meter may not have extra means to also measure the peak values. One can be lucky and peak causing clipping are at least detected, so autoranging with some try and error, but than no good / reliable way to detect if it is possible to switch to a lower range.Open probes is not a very relevant case. Still it would be a bit anoying if the meter would frequently switch relais in this case - I faintly remember such a case with a constantly clicking meter (AFAIR this was a HP3478).Not being able to fine adjust the integration time in detail is not such a big deal for a meter in normal use. For 1 PLC and more there is no big difference between a longer integration at a piece and averaging over multiple readings / digital filtering. Especially with a SD ADC this is essentially the same. DMMs with a multislope ADC usually do more than 10 PLC via averaging.For just the number display and no graph there is little need for less than 1 PLC. It can still be useful for data send to an USB stickIf the main part of the lesson is to learn about the DMM function / intenals, it would be nice to really adjust the details, In this case one would however like even more detailed information and settings, e.g. also about the auto zero mode. I don't think this meter would be right canditate this special task.For normal use simple handling (no real need to read all the manual) would be way more important. There are usually more important parts to learn with hands on experiments. The meter should just work as a simple to use reliable tool.

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 05:44:22 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 17, 2021, 04:46:00 amOk, you just scared me away from buying this, lol. Hello Instek color screen DMM!