Fighting Chinese sellers of counterfeit parts on eBay - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 10:01:56 pm
content: eBay dispute for the following item, initiated:http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-ORIGINAL-BOURNS-3590S-2-102L-1K-OHM-Potentiometer-Brand-New-Message sent to user jk_parts on eBay as part of the dispute is as follows:Hi JK,Thank you for sending me fakes and committing trademark infringement which is illegal in the USA. You said you were sellingoriginal BOURNSparts as part of your listing. Instead, you sold Chinese fakes made in Shenzhen which differ in obvious ways from authentic Bourns parts. The items claim to have been made in Mexico, but I know they were both manufactured and sold in Shenzhen.Now, I would like a refund since you broke eBay rules and sold illegal items in the United States.Note: This is a partial post. More details will be added to help with counterfeit identification and as the dispute progresses through eBay.Step 1: Gathering the evidence:Claimed item location (i.e., he thought he could hide the truth by listing a province instead of a city):Top view of packaging of fakes including false country of manufacture (i.e.,Made In Mexicomy ass! Notice improper capitalization of the preposition "in."):Bottom view of fake:Top view of fake:Front view:Pins, orthographic view:Detailed view of fake lettering and stabilizer leg shape (top blue protrusions) for use in incrimination:Step 2: Presenting the evidence:Actual shipment location (Shenzhen, as expected!):Identifiers of an authentic part1that differentiate it from the fake presented:Orthographic view including back of authentic part and its pins2:Orthographic view of top of authentic part2:Bottom of authentic part2:1. Credit tohttp://www.onlinecomponents.comfor images of the authentic part.2. Credit toMouserStep 3: The responseCould you help returning the potentiometer back to below address?Jerry ChenSeller address info omitted due to privacy concerns...Please send it using USPS first class mail and we will pay shipping cost as well.Full refund will be issued after receiving the returns.By the way, could you share us how to identify what the ORIGINAL...Our supplier told me it's original Bourns..Apologized for the inconvenience caused.Thank you.Step 4: HardballIt is clear that the scammer's expectation is for the return to arrive after the 30 day time limit where I can request eBay to step in on my behalf (as a buyer who has been sold counterfeit goods). So he's trying to get his parts back, keep his money and have me pay for the return shipping. I will admit, I did not expect this - normally the seller refunds when confronted and that's where the story ends. I guess we'll have to play hardball:Dear jk_parts,I should also mention that before returning the parts to you, I will have to start a dispute action through eBay marking the goods that you sold me as counterfeit goods. I will of course supply them with all of the evidence necessary to prove this.In addition I will put the parts through a conformance test that will subject them to the maximum electrical (both voltage and power) and mechanical (maximal torque and number of turns) stress indicated by the manufacturer in order to show non-compliance. This is almost guaranteed to result in the destruction of all of the parts, since they are after all counterfeit and will never meet the manufacturer's guidelines. You see, I work as an industrial product tester and have access to machinery used to test product compliance.At that point the remains of the broken burned-out parts will of course be shipped to you, at your expense and with you pre-paying for packaging, shipping and insurance including tracking.In addition to all of this, I will also contact both Bourns company as well as the Federal Trade Commission and provide them with all of the necessary evidence including your contact information for pursuit of Trademark Infringement charges and complete the eBay process for the reporting of counterfeit goods which will probably result in sanctions against you as a seller.Please let me know if you would like for me to initiate the above.Step 5: ConclusionNew message from: jk_partsWe were cheated by our supplier and will talk with him tomorrow immediately.Anyway, we will issue full refund without returning.We apologized for the inconvenience caused...Regards,He followed up with a refund shortly thereafter and canceled the eBay transaction to cover his ass. Note that I did not supply him with any information used to identify the parts as fakes.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 10:40:37 pm
content: They are obviously fakes, so presumably you bought them just to have an argument with the seller? You have far too much time on your hands.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 10:43:35 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on December 14, 2015, 10:40:37 pmNo, I am just fed up with the practice, the blind eye that eBay takes and most importantly I want to educate future perspective buyers so as not to get burned and in the event that they do, what recourse they have.

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 11:00:55 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on December 14, 2015, 10:40:37 pmThe OP is doing his part to fight fraud on ebay and your response is to belittle his efforts?

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 11:32:05 pm
content: Quote from: MagicSmoker on December 14, 2015, 11:00:55 pm+1Counterfeiters and those who sell fake parts must be exposed to public! The only way to fight counterfeiting is more educating people regarding this matter and show examples of counterfeit parts as much as possible.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 11:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on December 14, 2015, 10:40:37 pmHow could you know that they were fakes from the listing?

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 11:47:00 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 14, 2015, 11:36:05 pmThe price per itemnever lies! If it's too cheap to be true (and it's being shipped from China/Hong Kong)...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:16:45 am
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 14, 2015, 11:47:00 pmSo if it was only 90% of the "standard" price, you would presume it was genuine?There are false positives and false negatives.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:17:58 am
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 14, 2015, 11:47:00 pmOf course SharpEars, mikerj just made that statement that was quite unnecessary.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:38:51 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 15, 2015, 12:16:45 amI knew the moment I saw the pics that it was fake (i.e., price had nothing to do with it, other than effecting my sort order for matching eBay items). Then it was time to punish the scammer for claiming that his fakes were original BOURNS parts. When they get brazen and actually claim authenticity, I will have none of it...

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:50:16 am
content: When shopping on eBay, I filter out Chinese sellers. I don't care what is being offered, it is not worth the risk of time and/or money. The reason eBay will always turn a blind eye is because they make money. Unless a significant legal hand came out and slapped eBay, they will not turn down the shady businesses.The way I fight it is never buying anything from China directly, even the responsible companies. At least the Chinese originated parts I do by are vetted and tested through a monitored channel which drastically reduces the chance of problems. I cannot imagine the copy culture changing any time soon.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:59:43 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 15, 2015, 12:50:16 amThis technique is ineffective. The Chinese sources often have relatives and/or friends residing in either Canada or the US that resell this same crap from a Canadian/American address. Also, see the post below this one for other tricks.Theonlyway to stop this is either the US government putting its foot down (never going to happen) or education (I and others try...).

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:01:57 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 15, 2015, 12:50:16 amI too filter out the Chinese sellers (for most things) but I've found that they often claim to be in the US. Then when you buy from them, the items are shipped from China! Ebay REALLY needs to not only clear out the sellers of counterfeit parts but also the ones that lie about their "Ships From" location.I have bought some good items from China but I've learned not to trust appearances and not to take anything for granted! Copper plated aluminium wire anyone?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:03:02 am
content: How is accurately stating that something is in Guang Dong trying to hide anything?

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:04:08 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 15, 2015, 01:03:02 amBecause Shenzhen is a red flag, much more so than (the much larger province of) Guangdong (to most people in the know with regard to the origin of fake electronic goods in China).

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:06:59 am
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 15, 2015, 01:04:08 amHardly anything is made in Shenzhen, and it is pretty unlikely the devices are actually stocked there.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:09:58 am
content: Have you forwarded this info to bournes by chance? I'd be really curious if they had anything to say on the issue.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:15:46 am
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 15, 2015, 12:59:43 amIt is definitely not foolproof by any means.Starting with common sense....I look at the 'too good to be true' price.The pictures.The languageThe other things being sold by the same sellerIf the item, photos, and language appear nearly verbatim in Chinese sellers listings...even then, there is obviously never a guarantee.I recently ordered some pogo-pins from a Chinese seller. They arrived quick and were (as expected) super low cost. A close inspection reveals why the cost is so low. THEY WERE HORRIBLE QUALITY. My hypothesis was proven.For new things, parts and equipment, I simply stick with proper dealers. I use eBay for a lot of used gear, most of which is fairly local to southern California. So far, no problems with fakes.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:33:40 am
content: Quote from: jwm_ on December 15, 2015, 01:09:58 amThey are well aware and have been for over a decade:http://www.bourns.com/news/press-releases/pr/2005/07/01/safety-issues-with-counterfeit-bourns-trimmers!http://www.deruitai.com/news_con.aspx?nautoid=51

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:34:10 am
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 14, 2015, 10:43:35 pmNice work! It's too easy to find these things on eBay. Counterfeit products of all kinds gush out of China totally unchecked by either government or by eBay, as all get their little cut of the action.

author: calzap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 02:51:48 am
content: If you need genuine name-brand components, don't buy from Chinese sellers on eBay or other on-line selling venues. I did a post a while back about a Chinese seller who was selling fake Amazon-branded USB chargers via Amazon! It's hopeless unless there is more inspection and rejection at the border and more enforcement by the selling venues.One problem with border inspection and rejection in the U.S. is that large companies can use it as an anti-competitive tool. An example is Fluke's trade-marking the colors yellow and gray on DMMs to keep out competitive imports. If it doesn't have "Fluke" on it, will someone assume it's a Fluke because of its colors? Apparently, Fluke thinks so. SparkFun experienced this the hard way:https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428.On the other hand, SparkFun has been burned by Chinese-sourced Atmega328s that contained copper slugs instead of silicon:https://www.sparkfun.com/news/350.Mike in California

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 02:57:48 am
content: Quote from: calzap on December 15, 2015, 02:51:48 amNot that it makes a difference, but they turned out to be not just slugs, but a remarked On Semi part.https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 02:58:44 am
content: Don't want counterfeits, fake parts, or cheap junk that doesn't work right? Don't buy from eBay.There are probably several thousand sellers of fake crap on eBay. Maybe you can shut down one a week. Of course, 2 more will appear while you're doing that.Let us know when you've put them all out of business and it's safe to shop there again.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 03:23:07 am
content: Quote from: rdl on December 15, 2015, 02:58:44 amUnfortunately, this is true. As long as people desperately seek out cheap stuff - there will be counterfeits. There are consequences for demanding low prices and being willing to buy the fake things. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. That is a simple and easy way to get what I actually want instead of a frustrating imitation. If no one was willing to buy fake crap, the market would not be absolutely MASSIVE. The world cannot get enough fake stuff because they are 'saving' money. For some reason, the crap quality of the stuff they get does not frustrate them enough to avoid it in the future. I LOVE saving money, but buying counterfeit is almost always more expensive in the long run. It does not work at all. It breaks shortly after. It sorta works and you spend 2 days trying to figure out why. It may create a danger. All to save a few dollars?Since humanity will not likely make any near term shifts in behavior, the only possible way counterfeit stuff will be reduced by a meaningful amount is if the large countries around the world make it a priority. I can't see that happening, but maybe its possible. Buy from DigiKey, Mouser, Arrow, Element14, etc and you are most likely going to get what you expect. They time you spend dealing with fake stuff is more valuable than what you just 'saved' buying something that does not work. The lowest cost option is doing it right the first time.As a business owner, I would be slaughtered if I purchased bogus parts. As a hobbyist, I would be pulling my hair out.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 03:28:50 am
content: Quote from: rdl on December 15, 2015, 02:58:44 amMy goal is less about punishing the seller and more about education of the (often ignorant) consumer, hence all of the photos in the original post among other information. Chances are that the seller will just reply to my message with a refund unless he is a bigger idiot than I give him credit for.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 06:44:31 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 15, 2015, 05:32:31 amVery true.I've never used that process even though I'm very aware of it. I've found it best to communicate with sellers before I buy and this allows one to judge their grasp of English should you have a problem. On the rare occasion that I do they will usually go to great pains to put the problem right in order to keep your business.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 02:40:29 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 14, 2015, 11:36:05 pmBecause they are far too cheap and from a Chinese supplier. You'd need to be either brain dead or the most naive person on the planet to think these would be genuine Bournes parts.Wasting your time arguing with a few eBay sellers is not going to stop counterfeit parts being sold.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 03:05:48 pm
content: More productive shall be to learn how to bypass these sellers and buy direct from the original sellers in China. These parts if sold by the original guy shall be marked with a big "fake" and at a very good price. On Taobao, many sellers shall pay you back more than what you have paid them to maintain their reputation even if you are wrong. But do not expect a lot to-and-fro non essential communications as they work on low margin and high volume model. And do not expect them to learn English and speak English so to sell you and make a few pennies (that is the role of the ebay middlemen).I can't help to relate the whole exercise as someone buying up a cheap Rolex at USD30 but was told it was REAL due to this and that, and then..... (sorry if this sounds offensive)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 03:30:01 pm
content: The keyword is "verified supply chain". Buying from them is cheaper. Because when your design fails due to a 1 dollar saving, you might not lose one dollar, you might lose your company. Or you have to re-build trust, your brand, your reputation.Chinese parts can be OK, as long as you know what you are buying.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 04:04:55 pm
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-ORIGINAL-BOURNS-3590S-2-202L-2K-OHM-Potentiometer-Brand-New-/281736724694?hash=item4198d140d6:g:sngAAOSwu4BVkmLnless than $13 for 5 pieces w/ free shipping

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 06:02:54 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 15, 2015, 03:30:01 pmMy argument, though, is that you can't know "what" you are buying due to poor quality control and testing, because even the manufacturer doesn't know "what" they are selling in any consistent way.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 06:15:35 pm
content: I don't agree with that. Respected manufacturers spend a significant amount or time and money policing the supply chain to deliver reasonable assurance that your 1k resistor wont short out. It is not infallible, but if you buy from distribution outlets that verify supply chains you are FAR less likely to deal with the pain a suffering you would experience from a bogus batch of parts. I am sure there a plenty here that have experienced problems with parts from otherwise reliable sources but they are not the norm.My current product has nearly 200 part numbers that I have to source. If I get just ONE bogus part, I will be a huge trouble. The product I make is a mission critical system that is used in the most remote parts of the world. I have spent some time understanding how to best avoid counterfeit parts which boils down to dealing with reputable distribution. eBay is definitely NOT in that category. For me really, no Chinese source is reliable enough for me, even for my hobby category stuff.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 06:26:43 pm
content: don't buy cheap shit from china. problem solved.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 06:27:53 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 15, 2015, 06:26:43 pm... and the world comes to a screeching halt.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 07:16:37 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 15, 2015, 06:15:35 pmThat would be one failure mode I have never witnessed IRL! But I don't put anything past Fu Manchu and his dastardly Triads actually machinating a counterfeit 1k resistor to fail short instead of go high or open, just because...

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 07:35:06 pm
content: I agree, a bit of a stretch but I have seen some really crazy crap.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

author: DanielS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 07:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on December 15, 2015, 04:04:55 pmVolume discount? If you ordered these in 100k quantities directly from Bourns instead of going through distributors for 1-1000 quantities, you might actually be able to get them for $2-3 a piece.It is a bit like SMD resistors: you pay $0.15 a piece for 1-9 but can get the whole 3k reel for $10. A huge chunk of the price is warehousing and handling for small quantities.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 08:38:18 pm
content: Ebay has a strict policy on counterfeit or stolen items, if you don't get restitution from the seller, report it to eBay. They investigate and have their own punishments, such as being banned from eBay.http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.htmlIf one must buy from eBay, buy on specs on no-name parts [ keep in mind even specs could be dubious], rather than brand, expect brand names to be counterfeit until proven otherwise, and configure your lab to test whatever component you buy for its spec sheet performance, its your best warranty even if you buy from authorized channels [ which could get contaminated on occasion.]

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 08:48:07 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on December 15, 2015, 08:38:18 pmThat could be true, but its ineffective. Squash one bug but they laid 10,000 eggs that will hatch the next day. The very concept of eBay will prevent them from being able to meaningfully control counterfeit and stolen items.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 09:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 15, 2015, 08:48:07 pmThe only meaningful way for this to work is if manufacturers actually enforce their trademarks on eBay. I am surprised that few do.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 09:18:32 pm
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 15, 2015, 09:01:50 pmSame reason, 1 bug with 10,000 eggs. Futile. For Bourns, they are interested in the customers buying production qty. and probably cannot see any value in chasing down the smallish qty's on eBay. Anyone that is buying production parts from eBay is NOT a customer that Bourns would ever want.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 10:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on December 15, 2015, 04:04:55 pmI actually paid $10 for my 2 'original' Bourns 10K 10 turn pots for my Elenco power supply kit. I did get 'free shipping'. I wanted original but wasn't willing to pay more for the pots than the kit. They do actually work good enough for the purpose.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 10:11:11 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on December 15, 2015, 08:38:18 pmAccounts with high reputation have a huge value, that is why they always include cards with instructions to send them a message rather than report to ebay. Many pre-emptively send you a message after every purchase to make it more likely you respond to that message rather than file a grievence. If you want to actually hurt them, and you are confident they are doing something knowingly unethical, you report it to ebay.Note that this is fairly drastic in the consequences, so would never do it for simply poor quality or slow shipment or honest mixups without trying to work it out first. but knowingly selling counterfeit parts as a pattern with a well documented trail may warrant it.

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 10:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 15, 2015, 06:15:35 pmI budget $10k per year and have spent in excess of $20k some years on travel expenses alone.Vetting suppliers can be expensive but not doing it can be even more costlyI do deal with a few companies in China these days when a few years ago I wouldn't have.Knowing your supply chain these days is critical and I am very lucky to have found a few that value long term relationships vs today's rush towards a quick buck.Ive seen more cheap tricks around the globe these days than I'd care to admit and lately China of all places has been getting better,now Turkey is another story.I've seen legitimate companies make grey market midnight runs,using subpar components in order to make a quick buck and just to claim they are fakes later on when they fail.The list could go on but I think its the push from people for things as cheap as cheap can be and there has to be a point where it stops.These companies would have a rough existence if people didn't look to buy from them.I probably get questioned daily why our products cost so much when they can get the materials from ebay to make them for 1/10th the cost or less.Usually a picture is enough to show them the differences but I have also done experiments to show how the cheap stuff breaks down and the resins yellow in as little as a month or two.Thankfully most of the people see the differences and understand but there are some that still think you're trying to rip them off.You might cause the sellers a few headaches but they've probably figured this in as a cost of doing business and that most people looking to them are searching for fake low end cheap crap.Chances are some of these sellers have 4+ accounts all over ebay and even if they get banned you can buy feedback to pad your numbers.So no matter what they can be back up and running pretty quickly.Granted if enough did this it might make a small dent but I doubt it and I don't feel two wrongs make a right.Lastly Ebay has changed has changed their policies over the years to cater to the big sellers and push out the small guys.While they may have policies in place that seem to protect the consumer,they are nothing more then lip service to cover their ass.They want the sales and that is all there is to it.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 11:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 15, 2015, 06:15:35 pmThat may be true among industrial manufactures. It is pretty clear to me that as of a couple years ago, a lot of well established, formerly reputable, US consumer brands of everything from underwear, to glassware, to tools, small appliances, etc, were doing an appauling job of managing their global supply chains. Maybe they've gotten better, I don't know, I haven't been buying much "stuff" lately. I was amazed though at the extent and duration of the problems.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 11:36:31 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 15, 2015, 10:58:09 pmHopefully I will never be so foolish - penny wise pound foolish. The reliability of what I sell is the entire foundation of my livelihood. Fortunately, my electronics do not have any impact on human safety like some of my mechanical system have in the past. If someone is losing money because my thing failed, I will be treated as if I threatened their life and the life of their family. You are right, the margins support buying from known good/verified vendors. There is no good reason to take the risk.From a business perspective, I am always looking for opportunities to save money. A couple of decades of experience tells me that paying less for parts is not very often saving money because of the quality trade off that is usually associated. I have looked at Chinese options for vendors, and quickly ran for my life. Not worth the risk.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 04:25:01 am
content: I have a collection of fake Bourns parts to laugh at. You can expect anything from china to basically be fake. That is not to say however that they are not useful or good enough. I will sometimes buy cheap parts on Ebay of dubious origin for just playing around, but bottom line. Never trust any Bourns parts from anybody other than an authorized dealer.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 04:54:29 am
content: I have updated the original post with the details and conclusion of this debacle.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 05:15:08 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on December 15, 2015, 10:09:45 pmI've done the same. If Sharp Ears has his way how will us hobbyists get inexpensive 10 turn pots for our undemanding, non professional, non commercial projects!Maybe they should just label them as "Copy" Bourns pots assome of the more "honest" Chinese sellers of fake Hakko 951s do!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 06:26:15 am
content: Quote from: RobertBG on December 15, 2015, 10:48:22 pmTheonlything I find incredible is the unshakable belief that nobody from the USA wouldeverdo stuff like that, that if you buy from a USA seller you'll always be OK.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 01:13:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 16, 2015, 06:26:15 amThere are "friends of Chinese" sellers selling on eBay pulling the same shit. The difference is that they are liable.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 04:06:06 pm
content: Things are quite bad in Brazil as well. Electronic components stores sell fake components (like the Bourns pots) all the time, with the difference that they sell for the price of the real deal, and get mad (to the point of yelling) at anyone that challenges the authenticity of the products even when the differences are obvious and hard to ignore.In most large towns in Brazil, there are large shopping malls dedicated to selling fake and low quality Chinese goods: watches, sporting goods, clothes, hats and sneakers (100% fake famous brands), pen-drives, fake cell phones, memory cards, electronics, batteries, toys, etc. These places also have booths that sell pirated stuff like PlayStation and XBox games, DVD and Blu-Ray discs. This all happens in the clear, with the government's blessing. And what is worse: there is demand for that.It is possible, however, to find excellent deals on authentic stuff on these places, like memory cards, if you're able to tell the difference between fake x real.Getting back on topic:The Chinese government doesn't care if they are producing fake goods or not. Actually they couldn't care less about that. As long as there is incoming revenue, they are happy.Boards/customs controls on these items is also extremely hard to do. One thing is to check a container (like what happened in the case of the Sparkfun DMMs, that Fluke prevented from being delivered to Sparkfun). Another entirely different thing is to check each and every one of the thousands (if not millions) of yellow envelopes that come from China everyday.I wonder how much these fake items on eBay hurt the market for the authentic stuff. A hobbist might be willing to pay a dollar for a fake Bourns pot, but would the same hobbist be willing to pay $10+ for the real thing? Hardly. Likewise, hardly someone who buys in large volumes, enough to make a difference in Bourns' financial statement, would buy a fake product or from an unkown supplier. Companies with a reputation will also take care of their products, and having a verified supply chain is part of that caring.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 04:33:41 pm
content: Which is why I have no problem with "pattern" parts. Even those that play on the name (I've noticed a lot of people calling them Bournes, not Bourns. In which case you are getting what you ask for). But the counterfeiters are a problem and clearly illegal.I've no problem with the OP going after counterfeiters. Just leave the Bournes or Bjorns clones at silly cheap prices alone!

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 04:44:56 pm
content: I am not a millionaire so I will always trust ebay to have 10-turn pots on my PSU!

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 05:13:32 pm
content: In my view, fighting counterfeiters may be better handled by the original mfg by legal means. Or else there are too many ambiguities. For example, someone may know the answers to questions like:1). Is it legal to knowingly buy counterfeited goods?2). If this is an effective way, shouldn't "buying 10000 pieces then asking for refund" be even more effective?3). How can we distinguish fighting counterfeiters from using the same tactic for getting free (inferior) parts. Of course, in this case, we know the OP has good intention since he started this topic for educating others.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 05:19:09 pm
content: Actually it seems a good way of getting (inferior) parts for free. Unless of course ebay also keeps a black mark against buyers who raise disputes too often? (Mind you there was no ebay level dispute in this case... hmm...)

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 05:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2015, 05:19:09 pm

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 05:38:35 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2015, 04:33:41 pmI went after this guy for exactly one reason - the claim of Bournsoriginalparts. If he had been selling Bjorns shipped to him over a Fjord from Gjøvik, more power to him!Of course I could have been wrong and gotten said parts (for the deal of a lifetime). But, I got exactly what I expected: MadeIn MexicoApparently there is a suburb of Shenzhen named Mexicoand they are horrible at miscapitalizing prepositions (in non-titles, if I may add).

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 06:13:16 pm
content: The reason these fake parts exist, isn't to defraud a few (thousand) suckers on ebay, but to provide fake parts for Chinese factories.It's one thing to slip some fake parts into an order, but what about where the factory actually wants the fakes ? For "cost savings" or for nationalism reasons (well it is a communist country).Lets say the chinese fake parts are 25% the cost of the legit US made parts, so you can pocket the difference on the production run. Replaces every part with fakes for even more profit, and you get a typical China Export (CE) product. I sometimes wonder if the various fake capacitors are a code, eg if you want caps that explode after a year buy brand X, for 2 years buy brand Y.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 06:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on December 16, 2015, 06:13:16 pmI doubt it, because that would require for them to care about manufacturing quality and perform quality control procedures and we all know that would increases costs of production.

author: uski
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 09:07:40 pm
content: I'm a bit annoyed by all the fakes too - sometimes I'm OK with cheap components and when that happens I'm OK if they are marked as such.But when I want brand X, then I want to be sure it's actually brand X.On another note, I'm also annoyed at the "big names". At work I've been given a volume pricing of $6 for an IC (I won't disclose which one - not needed and NDA). The price was so high for what the part was doing that I literally freaked out in the meeting with the supplier. I explained them I could reproduce their part with a $0.30 MCU and a $0.60 analog IC. Two days later, they came back with another quotation at ... $0.90.So OK, the Chinese are annoying, but the western companies are greedy as hell too and I understand some companies are tempted to buy cheap crap instead, at least you don't have to deal with the stupid marketing department of the westerners (stupid because I would never have bought their $6 IC at that price, and I feel they've been trying to rip me off with their initial $6 quotation).uski

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 11:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: uski on December 16, 2015, 09:07:40 pmSounds like Linear Technologies if I have to guess. I would not say greedy is the right word. They are fishing for supply and demand when they have a unique part. The engineering cost to get to market is huge and the life span of many products is unknown. Many of these companies would rather start at a high price and adjust down as market pressures demand. If the are lucky, they will sell train loads at $6/ea or they will be met with opposition and make the adjustment. With some devices being home runs and others being marginal, the average profit is what they actually have leftover to keep the R&D going for the next gen products. Making a profit is not a crime - it's not greedy. Greedy is when someone takes more than their fare share of what is owed to them. In business it is all about VALUE. You will only pay the amount that equates to your perceived value.The company that is selling has price the offering at the same value that you perceive OR they can simply find another customer that appreciates it more. If they cannot find anyone willing to pay the initial price - they can lower it to the point where they can make a profit with lower margin - higher volume.It is up to the customer to tell the vendors how much it is worth. It is up to the vendors to say yes or say no.Quote from: SuzyC on December 16, 2015, 04:44:56 pmWell, I am not a millionaire either. When I was first learning about MCU's I got a pair of circuit specialist PSU's, some dev boards, and other bits. The PSU's were the cheapest crap I could find.The pots became scratchy and the unit became difficult to adjust. I had it connected to a hacked together experiment and attempted to make a fine adjustment but the scratchy pots sent a spike out that blasted my project dead. A mountain of frustration, $30-ish in parts, and a week wait for new stuff. It was not worth the money I saved on the hideous PSU's (it was the pots that failed me).That was the last day I used those PSU's. I even retired my Rigol scope to backup status. I got a pair of old HP supplies that are low cost AND awesome. When I want to save money, I tend to buy the higher-end parts and machines. They are cheaper because they don't waste my time and they last beyond my need. A friend of mine has the same mentality as your comment and he is always buying replacement stuff and working around problems associated with crap parts and devices. Chasing his tail constantly only to find out it was a bad probe, connector, pot, PSU, or whatever that was a 'DEAL!' from China. I have patiently built my bench and parts supply from the high-end and have spent less time and money than my friend. I have created and completed more projects. I have been able to explore and learn more complex concepts than he has because I am not fiddling with shitty parts - I am making things. Good parts are predictable and that saves time. I only have so much time on this planet so I choose not to waste it by purchasing things that sort-of-kind-of work.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 11:48:44 pm
content: Hmm... I would have just gave a squirt of Servisol switch cleaner and got on with it...

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 12:53:07 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2015, 11:48:44 pmOnly to have it start the same problems a day, a week, a month later and mess up another project? Forget it. My point is that I don't want anything to be fiddly. I don't like senseless variables when I am trying to solve a complex problem that already has a bunch of legit variables.

author: uski
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 12:59:36 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 16, 2015, 11:00:10 pmWell - no ! When you go to the grocery store, the cashier doesn't look at you with a poker face and say : "what's your target price for the bag of spaghettis ? And how much are you willing to pay for that 6-pack ?"The first question they ask me is this, "what's your target price". Well, I don't know ! Let's say I tell them $0.10, and they agree. 6 months later, a competitor comes in with a pin to pin compatible part for $0.08, so I switch. Then the first supplier is unhappy "but we respected your target price !" they say... come on! If the later supplier can make it for $0.08, the first supplier should have quoted $0.08 directly.That whole "target price" thing drives me nuts - but I can tell you, I take advantage of it. Now everytime they ask, I tell them the lowest possible I can imagine

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 01:01:24 am
content: Surely the old PSU's needed a squirt of Servisol? If not, then perhaps your seller did that before selling them onto you. I would probably do that as a matter of course.Meanwhile have false confidence in 30 year old gear compared to brand new stuff instead.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 01:36:01 am
content: Quote from: uski on December 17, 2015, 12:59:36 amThe store absolutely asks by putting a price tag on it. If you buy it, then you said YES if you don't buy it then you said NO. The cashier does not care, but the management is keeping a very sharp eye on price vs. margin vs. volume.Quote from: uski on December 17, 2015, 12:59:36 amIt can be a frustrating tactic for sales. They know how much the parts cost to manufacture and they have some guidelines about minimum margins. The are literally fishing for what the part is worth and it has NOTHING to do with manufacturing cost and everything to do with what people are willing to pay. Many of the higher end silicon companies seem to be flipping the bird to the customers that are looking to 3 decimal places of negotiated price. The conversations are expensive and they see a tough low margin deal that will run away for a fraction of a penny less as too much to bother with. For resistors and capacitors maybe, but specialty silicon? I pay the piper because my volumes are too low to get any real attention. You should have worked out what the part is worth to you by the time you are talking in a purchasing meeting. You should also already know what your alternatives are that could be lower cost. For me, I buy a lot of parts from Linear that have no direct option. At least not a practical one, so I am stuck and they know it. They conceived a part that solves a problem and no one else has it? Time to pay. For the typical parts that 10 manufactures make, that is where you can get to the last penny and they already know that.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 01:46:55 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 17, 2015, 01:01:24 amFalse confidence in an Agilent/HP power supply? I don't think so. They are remarkably well designed and very high-performance 25 years later. No Servisol needed ever. No worries, no maintenance, no fiddling, no hoping for the best, nothing. All that for $200 used - 35v/15A 500watts with 10mv/10ma precision and a few uV of noise. They are connected to LabView through GPIB so I have a GUI for monitoring and control. They can be paralleled and have remote sense. Voltage and Current are controlled through encoders, not pots so the steps are perfectly smooth and consistent. They have been in constant use since I got them and presumably substantial use before that. I have two of them made years apart and they both perform identical.Servisol will not fix a shitty Chinese switching power supply with open carbon pots. Coarse/Fine adjustments? No remote sense, output caps after the limiting stage that blow up your project, no remote control GPIB/USB/VXI.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 02:08:08 am
content: Which is why I have a DP832 and a HP6632B. I would never dream of relying on PSUs without GPIB/LXI/RS232 when needed and those two are great and my gotos. I also have a few SMPS Tenma jobs I got for bugger all, and I don't have any problem with them for what they are either. They apparently have pots, but nope - they are rotary encoders.Fuck shitty old creaking stinking oxidising pots unless you sort them out. If you want to rely on them without any maintenance just because they are ancient and before Carly Fiorina destroyed the world then be my guest.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 09:41:36 am
content: Quote from: station240 on December 16, 2015, 06:13:16 pmOff-topic, but I thought this CE-means-china-export myth was widely understood to be false...On-topic: I think this is a battle not worth fighting. There are so many people out that that don't mind them being fakes and risk it anyways. As long as they exist and keep these counterfeiters in business, you are fighting a lost battle. Much better to either just use them to get cheap/free sub-par components or just keep your money and spend it on known-good sources.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 09:55:12 am
content: Quote from: TheUnnamedNewbie on December 17, 2015, 09:41:36 amWho cares! The important point is that it is, presumably deliberately, designed to be so similar to the EU safety mark that most people will deceived.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 10:02:00 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 17, 2015, 09:55:12 amThere is no such thing as an official china export mark, thats the thing. It's a myth started on the internet because some chinese messed up their fake CE markings with intention of being just that - face CE markings.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 11:46:08 am
content: Quote from: TheUnnamedNewbie on December 17, 2015, 10:02:00 amThat doesn't make sense. If that was the case then they would rapidly have corrected their "mistake" and fraudulently reproducedcorrectEU CE marks.No, it is a deliberate long-term deception.

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 11:52:04 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 16, 2015, 05:15:08 amOh, the irony... If fakes weren't challenged for being fake then fakes wouldn't cost (much) less than the real deal. Thus it is because of people like SharpEars that counterfeit merchandise is sold at a huge discount!

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 01:27:44 pm
content: Quote from: uski on December 17, 2015, 12:59:36 amI find that practice ("target price") offensive. It's like asking: "how rich are you and how much are you (un)aware of the prices being practiced in this segment?".I see that all the time in the IT industry as well. As an IT manager for a medium sized college (that's my main occupation, BTW - electronics is a hobby), every now and then I get a visit from my account managers from Dell and HP, and I see a big difference between them. While the Dell acct mgr seems like a Turkish sales man, with all that target price talk, the HP guy at least tries to show me value in their products. HP is more resilient to negotiate prices, while Dell is something like "anything goes to keep the customer".Like uski, I too make that work in my favour, and we often endup buying Dell, because I know there is always some "fat to be burned" in their quotes, and boy, I do burn that fat!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 02:30:24 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on December 17, 2015, 01:27:44 pmWould you prefer the Oracle alternative? For the uninitiated, the price is 10% higher than you are able to afford - and still they get that price!I once had a (non-Oracle) enterprise software salesman ask me whether the divisional director followed football or rugby. I leave it up to you to guess why.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 03:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 17, 2015, 02:30:24 pmThey get that price, because people are too stupid and/or lazy to switch their DB to PostgresQL, but this is way off topic...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 03:12:17 pm
content: Quote from: uski on December 16, 2015, 09:07:40 pmi've seen the same part sold two to different buyers. one pays 6$ , the other 90 cents... for the SAME form the SAME manufacturer without anyone in between. truth to be told. one guy only bought 100K over a 5 year period. the other millions a month...dirty secret : the manufacturers often do this to get rid of the design expenses asap. sell cheap in large volume to stuff the fabs , recup the engineering cost. after that the net cost of the part is the cost of sand and labor. so at that point you don't really care about volumes. it is pure profit.semiconductors is a strange business. there are several business models and they swap between models on the fly. get the part out the door, written off , development paid , and then we do what we want.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 06:20:44 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 17, 2015, 03:12:17 pmOther thing is what Analog devices does. After a part is in production for 20 years, they just keep increasing the price until everyone stops using it.Like 30 dollars+ on RMS converters, 50+ on the same part in ceramic package.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 03:56:01 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 17, 2015, 06:59:01 pmWhen you were in China and used LT chips, 100% of them were counterfeit (especiallythose sourced from Taobao). This is why they were so cheap and not because someone got a bang of a good deal on 1 million parts straight from LT and decided to sell them cheap. LT is one of the most (Chinese) counterfeited brands out there. If you are not sourcing your parts from a direct distributor of LT, you are getting fakes.In America if you buy LT parts (and it doesn't matter if you are buying from a Chinese seller, an American seller, your neighbor or whatever) and they are not coming from a direct distributor with documented source tracing back to LT, theyarefake with no ifs, ands or buts. Also, no matter where you are getting the LT parts from you better make sure when you get them that they are legit by comparing to known good parts. I've seen even large American distributors selling LT fakes (no names will be dropped here) due to their inability to properly identify them as such.Chips and regulators are more difficult to match against originals, but you can come up with a good counterfeit identification scheme (like I did for the pots in the first post of this thread) based on font, kerning, tracking, alignment, text wrap, pin shape, texture of silicon, pin 1 identifier (dot and stripe), sandwiching, country of origin stamp, etc... Every detail on the chip must be (nearly) perfect for it to be considered original. It's very easy for Sum Ting Wong to get "something wrong" and that's how I catch him (i.e., his parts).

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 07:43:08 pm
content: If you buy older parts they're more likely recycled than fake. An old memory chip is not likely to be faked the way say a modern LTZ1000 is. It's more likely to be recycled parts. Nothing wrong with recycling; sometimes this will be the only good way to get it cheap, and it saves you the work of having to do removal yourself - still assuming you can find it in the first place. Just don't imagine there's a warehouse somewhere with millions of 8080 series peripheral chips sitting waiting to be sold for $1.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 07:07:47 am
content: cheeky boy, he must have a spot on his camera lens resulting in a blurred area where the manufacturer's name and locale would be visiblehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-3590S-2-101L-100-Ohm-10-Turn-Rotary-Wire-Wound-Precision-Potentiometer-Pot/161541762301?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D34494%26meid%3Dc496f9193c2749c69418177398529208%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D17%26sd%3D221949551967

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 08:10:09 am
content: so in the spirit of this thread,I order 5 setsThey arrive and have "Bourns - Made In Mexico" with a capitalized prepositionI cry fake and foul not because I thought they were Bourns, but are marked as such and obviously fakes.Sellers cries out that he has been duped too by his supplier.I ask why was the name blurred out?I am the wounded lamb here and threaten to open a case with eBay.Where does it go from there? Do I have a free new stock of hobby level counterfeits to play with?Have I been given the opportunity to fund my hobby as I reach retirement years?

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 09:13:30 am
content: I must apologize for posting while exhausted and ready for bed. My statements are all hypothetical. I have not (yet) ordered these parts expecting high quality low cost OEM parts.My question is how long will the seller keep selling low cost knockoffs if hobbyists like me are willing to order their parts, claim fakes and have the seller refund my money and not ask for parts back? This is what my comment was regarding "funding my hobby into retirement". Do I sense a nearly perpetual source of free hobby grade parts?I was not dreaming about winning any big $$ lawsuit to fund mu hobby, just supposing about how someone, if they felt so inclined, could probably scam the scammers and stock their shelves with hobby level parts.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 11:13:35 am
content: If you are going to scam (as a customer) on ebay then simply say the part didn't turn up. No need to get into protracted stuff about counterfeits.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 12:16:00 pm
content: Well look what just turned up in the post. My cheap S-View cover for my Note 4. Now I did order one with the chip in it, but wasn't expecting it to arrive with Samsung retail packaging complete with Korean text and a 3 month Samsung limited warrantyDo I care? Nope. But if I paid 10x more expecting the genuine article I would be annoyed!Quick delivery, product is better than expected. 5 stars on AliExpress from me

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 11:58:39 pm
content: I looked at a bunch of the eBay ads with this part. Now I'm getting "suggested" emails from them.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 05:29:25 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 19, 2015, 11:13:35 amMost scam sellers now use tracking that shows the part as delivered to you so that you cannot claim non-delivery.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 05:37:00 pm
content: Another incident to report, this time with:Chinese seller:kakasell8(A scammer true to his handle name)Item:High Voltage DC-DC Boost Converter 8-32V to ±45V-390V ZVS Capacitor ChargingModified EEVblog moto: Don't just get ripped off by them - tear them apart!Dec. 13: You requested a returnComments: The item is supposed to regulate at a 200 mA load. It could not even regulate properly with a 1.5 mA load. This is garbage and I want a refund.Dec. 14: The seller sent you a messageComments: hi friend , sorry for this , i don't know your mean , this item max input is 5A , the output current is 0.2A maxDec. 14: You sent a messageComments: Hi, you say the output is 0.2A max, but your item cannot properly regulate a load that is 0.0015A - there are voltage swings in excess of ten volts at 100 V. What is unclear about this? This item is junk and I want a refund.Dec. 15: The seller sent you a messageComments: sorry for this , we have sold many this item don't have any problem , if you want bigger current it need bigger voltage and current input , and the higher the output voltage, the smaller the output currentDec. 15: You sent a messageComments: As I already mentioned, the device fails to properly regulate its output, even at low current loads when supplied with plenty of voltage and current. I guess I will just wait for eBay to step in and resolve this, since you are refusing to refund.Dec. 18: The seller sent you a messageComments: ok , refund you money , pls leave a good feedback first , it's ok? thanksDec. 18: You sent a messageComments: No, it's not OK! I want an immediate refund now or eBay will deal with you.No response for several days and I decided I've had enough of this scammer's antics...Dec. 22: You opened a caseComments: The seller will not give me a refund for a non-functioning that was falsely advertised and used counterfeit parts. The seller is now trying to blackmail me to leave him a positive review first or he will not refund, trying to play the feedback system.Dec. 22: Case opened (Dec-22-15 05:13)Dec. 22: The case was resolvedFinal decision: The case has been closed in your favor. We're sorry you had a problem with your purchase. We're issuing you a full refund.Dec. 22: You received a refund (Dec-22-15 05:29) (From the time the case was opened, it took eBayonly 16 minutesto issue the full refund and credit PayPal).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 05:43:13 pm
content: The delivery scam is done using an empty envelope, or it contains a picture of the item. Does not work here, because SAPO will either deliver so late it rolls out of the dispute period, or loses it, or it is not tracked.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 05:55:06 pm
content: Quote from: SharpEars on December 22, 2015, 05:37:00 pmSo, you expected this thing to work n the first place?

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 05:56:28 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 22, 2015, 05:55:06 pmNo, I expected this thing to be free in the first place. I expected it to work (10% chance) in the second case. But, all jokes aside, I did take about a half an hour of my time to test what I got (Equipment used was anAgilent 6612C Power Supplyas the source and anAgilent 34401A DMM (6 1/2 digit)for measurement. The loads consisted of several 5-25 ppm 0.1% resistors of various values (e.g.,100kOhm 0.1% +/- 15ppm/C)). This was not a case of trademark infringement, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt if the thing had worked within the specs he advertised.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:15:06 pm
content: You mentioned counterfeit, but this isn't a counterfeit of anything. And all your fancy shmancy gear didn't test it for what it's application was for. Did you not try to kill rodents with it?If it kills rodents then it works as advertisedAlso what capacitor did you try and charge with it?

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 22, 2015, 06:15:06 pmThe active electronics on it were definitely counterfeit, based on the labeling. No, I did not try to kill anysquirrelsrodents with it, but I was able to take it up to a full 780 V (from the - to the + terminals). After some deliberation, I decidednotto use my 8 1/2 digit tongue to test, hence the need for the fancy shmancy test equipment.Also, no capacitors were harmed in this experiment (I didn't have a large enough cap rated at 1 kV to test with). The purpose of this purchase was more for it's "high voltage at a reasonable current" source properties. Unfortunately, to call it a regulated supply would be a stretch.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:28:20 pm
content: Many boost converters poorly regulate at low/no loads.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:31:37 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 22, 2015, 06:28:20 pmIt did not do much better at a "medium" load of 50 mA. Also, it regulated quite well at no load (which was a bit surprising). Keep in mind that the loads were constant value resistors, so not much effort needed to regulate, assuming that the boost converter was notcheap chinese counterfeit crap.Perhaps the Sun Ting Wong that designed the boost converter IC actually did some testing at no load.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:36:19 pm
content: QuoteI would say that anyone expecting non-fakes from eBay needs to have his/her head examined by a higher authority. Quality is expensive and there is a reason eBay items are cheap.As to this particular case, short of having the parts examined by bourns, any "experts" like you or me are simply speculating about the authenticity of the said parts, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on December 22, 2015, 06:36:19 pmIt doesn't take a rocket scientist to see package discrepancies in fakes due to shoddy workmanship and Cross Eyed Wong following the English text style guide. This is especially true when the same sort of inconsistencies keep popping up again and again if you've done this a time or ten, making them very easy to spot oncounterfeit parts originating from Shenzhen(is there even a doubt?).

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 06:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on December 19, 2015, 11:58:39 pmFor that price, you think they would throw in a 10 turn counter to sweeten the deal!Oh wait ...http://www.ebay.com/itm/281782868179?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 07:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on December 22, 2015, 06:52:40 pmI bought several of these and the turn counters are actually not too bad for the price, given the fact that a counterfeit pot is included.