DMM for a renewed hobby. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 08:41:58 am
content: Hi,approx. 16 years ago I ceased my interest in electronics and went on to new stuff. Somehow, my hobby always stayed with me through simple repairs, measurements and minor soldering work. I hardly recall how it happened that i stumbled upon Dave's blog on Youtube and my interest in electronics sparked again and I want to develop it a bit. It turns out that my (then, as a 17 YO very expensive) Mastech DMM is well, a toy. So I started looking for a new DMM.Main usage will be:- DIY LED lighting (portable) - flashlights, work lights- Soft Start and PWM regulators for incandescent lights (I love the light color)- DIY QRP Transcievers (morse code only)- Mobile and stationary power supplies for the above- No digital stuff, only analogueI have some Background in electronics (ceased my evening school 5 month before technician exam for Electronics) and some really minor experience.Hence two questions:- Will in such applications Fluke 87V be a real overkill (Lifetime warranty, quality, reliability and accessories - are also important)- Will for starters something like Kyorisu KEW1012 be enough (in the and should serve as backup)Sorry, as of now I cannot asses how low shall I go with mili, micro or nano A so maybe some experienced users will lend me a bit of their experience where should my target lie? And honestly: job, 2YO daughter and Study on weekend takes a toll on free time, so not much to look around searching for answers.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 09:34:20 am
content: It sounds like you can do with much less than a Fluke 87V. That is not to say that the 87V is the most featured or even arguably the best value period. Yes, it is the highest regarded manufacturer for multimeters. One of your local electronics suppliers says many alternatives,www.tme.eu.Consider maybe a Keysight U1272A. It is a very nice meter with ore features than the 87V and for less money.There is also the Uni-T UT71D that might meet your needs. It has many features including PC software and cable for the price. Its main downside is that its input protection is lacking and I wouldn't use it too much on high energy circuits.Then there is the Brymen range: BM257s, BM525s, BM829s, or the top end model the BM869s. You can buy to BM869s for less than the 87V. I would probably recommend the BM869s, the PC cable and get yourself an LCR meter like the DER EE DE5000. It can be found on ebay for for undr $150 and would serve you well in doing radio work. Making you own coils is much easier when you can actually measure them.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 10:37:19 am
content: There is no doubt the 87V is nice. I'll second getting a less expensive meter plus the LCR meter, however. The LCR is incredibly handy. I have the DE5000, and while a bit slow, does a great job.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 11:33:35 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on February 02, 2015, 09:34:20 amThe 87V brand new is not a great bang-per-buck meter.It more appeals to those who absolutely trust the Fluke brand and have used the 87 series for 20 years and built up a trust in it.QuoteYes, if I was using my money to equip a new lab, as much as I love the 87V, I'd get the U1272A over the 87V. Just so many darn useful features.QuoteThe BM869 is a nice option, well worth looking at.

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 11:56:53 am
content: What I find appealing in Fluke 87V is, aside of cry once and use for a long time is the Lifetime Warranty and rock solid build. Amount of buck for the buck, at least at that moment seems secondary... None the less I'll take a closer look a the Agilent and Brymen and try to sort out what is best for me.Thanks for all the replies.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 12:24:05 pm
content: I doubt the KEW 1012 is made in Japan.The PCB looks cheaply put together and it uses a Taiwan Fortune DMM iC. There are better choices out there at that price point.http://www.ic-fortune.com/eng/new_product3_3_1.asp?pno=FS9922_DMM4

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 12:55:56 pm
content: At least no self tappers there. I asked Kyoritsu about the origin of the 1012. We'll see if and how they respond.None the less my Fluke Voltage Tester T110 came per post and.... I'm at work... DratsHow are the experiences with Keysight's warranty?

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 01:05:56 pm
content: Quote from: Esthan on February 02, 2015, 11:56:53 amLifetime warranty is for product lifetime, not yoursBesides, quote from fluke.com:This warranty covers the original purchaser only and is not transferable. To establish original ownership proof of purchase is required (20, 70, 80, 170, 180 and 280 models).Quote from: EEVblog on February 02, 2015, 11:33:35 amIs it Danaher's subsidiary way (ten year old technologies at premium pricing)?

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 01:09:04 pm
content: I know, not more than 7 Years after the line is discontinued.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 03:52:33 pm
content: Quote from: Esthan on February 02, 2015, 01:09:04 pm7 - 10 years typically (depends on parts availability),totalfrom the date of original purchase. Gets a little confusing as there's the "at their discretion" aspect IMHO. For example, lets say the battery terminals on the PCB in your 8 y/o Fluke DMM have snapped off; they have the part/s, but the CS rep has the discretion of helping you out or not as a warranty claim.FWIW, I've an Agilent U1252B and a Brymen BM857a that are quite nice (BM85x series is the predecessor to the BM86x series). Both are well built and have proper protections in them. The Brymen offers more value for your money however, and I would go for a BM869 before a U1252B as a result. No problem with using either for mains work, if you're unsure of either in this regard.

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 04:27:23 pm
content: Quote from: Esthan on February 02, 2015, 08:41:58 amFor hobby use a Fluke 87V is way too expensive, regardless of warranty. I would look for something perhaps a quarter of the price, maximum, and a real cheap one to leave in the car or kit bag too.SJ

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 04:35:43 pm
content: Quote from: Solder_Junkie on February 02, 2015, 04:27:23 pmAgreedQuoteA basic DMM would cover all this. There might be an advantage in getting a true Vrms model if you want to look at PWM with the DMM but I'd be tempted to buy a meter with a decent brand but fairly basic spec to cover the above.I don't know how toylike or healthy your existing DMM is but it's probably going to be fine to do all the above apart from true Vrms. So for the cost of the Agilent or Fluke DMMs some people are recommending you could buy a Rigol DS1054Z scope and either continue with the existing DMM or maybe buy a used Fluke H/H DMM for a low price.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 06:07:05 pm
content: Actually for the price of an 87V, you could buy a Rigol DS1054Z and a Uni-T UT139C. this gets you the best versatility and some real capabilities. Don't discount the UT139C as junk as it is not. Is it a Fluke? No.But if you can go over the budget that you had for a Fluke 87V, then get the Brymen BM257s and the DS1054Z.The DE-5000 LCR meter would be a great addition for radio work too.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 07:29:15 pm
content: I've purchased used Fluke DMM's on Ebay. They were aesthetically damaged but fully functional. No warranty, but the price can be pretty low. For instance 87v for around ~100 - ~150. I have a lot of faith in Fluke equipment. A used purchase seems like a no brainer to me.But like other's have said, the feature set is not THAT great. The Uni-T UT171D has a lot going for it if you are going to be using it for low voltage hobby stuff. When you abandon the need for great protection, you have a whole world of options open up to you.

author: Nermash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 07:45:02 pm
content: How about Hioki, there are some interesting entry level models like DT4211 / 12, and DT4252.Top of the line DT4282 also looks like a precision quality instrument, something like Fluke 287 specs in 87V package

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 08:05:41 pm
content: Hioki DT4252 is a contender and so is the BK Precision 2712. Brymen 257 will put up a good fight though...Amprobe AM570 is also worth a look up.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 09:18:00 pm
content: Hioki looks nice, but it's on the expensive side.MSRP in the US for aHioki DT4282is $495 (scroll down for pricing for the DT425x series). To put that into perspective, they're offering a Fluke 289 + freeTVBTECH GL8898 Inspection Camerafor $506.36. So only a ~$10 price difference here. Don't know about you, but the free camera would be too tempting to turn down (after discount, price for the Fluke + camera combo drops to $475.98; $465.30 for the DT4282).Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind a Hioki, but there's better value out there.

author: CosPhi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 10:10:08 pm
content: I started on the weekend to write the full review about my Hioki DT4281. I have already more than four pages of text .... I would it finish today but I came late back from workso no review today ...First impression herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4281-multimeter-teardown-and-first-impression/msg504692/#msg504692And yes as somebody said, the Hioki is more like an 87V than a 289. The 289 is for sure a great meter but it's a menu based meter. So the handling is different from 87V / DT 428x. In my opinion I would tend to a simpler meter not to a Fluke 280 as a first main meter.If you wait one or two days there will be my full review... and yes I would buy everytime again a Hioki meter

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2015, 07:03:08 am
content: Thanks for all the repliesI always enjoy the moment when my original idea goes into the trash can and I'm left with few new options - and the one with less overkill in DMM and a Rigol seems perfect.I'll take a closer look at Fluke 115 and 175 and Agilents

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2015, 08:27:38 am
content: The Fluke 115 is not very well suited for electronics as it is missing mA measurement. The Brymen BM869s is the same price as the 175, but a much better multimeter with more accuracy and features.

author: Napalm2002
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 01:30:56 am
content: In the USA I cannot find a key sight u1272a for anywhere less than a new fluke 87-5.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 01:35:35 am
content: Quote from: Napalm2002 on February 04, 2015, 01:30:56 amAnd the 87-V is plentiful on EBay with good prices for Like New units, so good deals can be had. The Agilent is very uncommon on EBay.

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 06:49:11 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on February 03, 2015, 08:27:38 amPoint well taken - but with "ucurrent gold" this weakness will be eliminated, and more features at a lesser price are not without a priceNone the less, my mind is made up (G0HZU - thank You)- I'll get myself either Fluke 115 or 175 and ucurrent gold. Since I often do repairs outside (and in bad weather conditions) a dedicated field DMM with a good warranty and quality accessories will do fine, especially if I'll get myself the ucurrent and a scope.Almost went to Agilent U1232A but the unmeasurable gap between 0,6mA and 0,999mA seems like a really bad joke to me in a DMM of that price class.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 06:54:19 am
content: Quote from: Esthan on February 04, 2015, 06:49:11 amIf you want to save a few bucks to put towards a better DSOconsider the Fluke 15B.Intended for the Asian market and no warranty elsewhere, nevertheless it is a good DMMWITHa mA range.

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:02:29 am
content: Bucks are not that much of an issue in that matter (and some, along with hunters are running around my house now). I'd rather buy something good and be happy for a long time - case something goes wrong, send it to the local dealer and let them worry.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:27:16 am
content: Quote from: Esthan on February 04, 2015, 07:02:29 amIf you have narrowed your choices down to the Fluke 115 and 175, then you should know the 115 has a 3 year warranty and the 175 has a "lifetime" warranty. Obviously, you seem to already know the "lifetime" terms and conditions.

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:32:51 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on February 04, 2015, 07:27:16 amOne thing still puzzles me. For both have almost identical specs but the 115 has a slightly better working and storage temp range the IP rating is known. I'll have to inquire at Fluke about IP rating of 175 - couldn't find it anywhere.T&C of "Lifetime" are known to me and are actually a bit worse than those I know for machines. IMHO still quite good though.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:34:47 am
content: I have a 175 which I use for field work or sometimes for electronic work. For field work I cannot find a fault. (I don't probe in the dark so the lack of a backlight isn't a big deal.)For electronics two things irk me. First the A and mA ranges default to AC. This is true of many Fluke multimeters though. Second is there's no REL or anything to zero out your probes in ohms.Like almost any DMM, the capacitance range is near useless. That's where those DE-5000 LCR meters come in.On the other hand, those are pretty minor complaints!EDIT: although I don't know what IP rating the 175 is (I suspect dust proof), I wash mine fairly frequently and it hasn't suffered.

author: Esthan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:53:52 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on February 02, 2015, 12:24:05 pmWytnucls - you were right.Just got a feedback from Kyoritsu - KEW 1012 is Made in China.

author: Handyman32
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 10:33:34 am
content: The Hioki DT428x series are no nonsense multimeters.They are priced similarly to Fluke 28x series! That’s crazy.The Hioki DT4282 is indeed very fast. But I noticed in the capacitor range, it is slower than the Flukes.Overall, if I cannot get a Fluke, I’ll get a Hioki. I think they are both on the same level of excellence.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 11:25:59 am
content: Weird, but no bar graph on the Hioki DT4282. Everything else is tops, at a price.

author: teslafan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 08:46:20 am
content: Quote from: Napalm2002 on February 04, 2015, 01:30:56 am$336.42 NEW AT TESTEQUITY.COM