This don't look good. Lithium battery issues. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:20:50 am
content: Sorry if this isn't the right place. Not really a repairSo I have had this dashcam for almost 2 years. I picked it up off ebay for like $22 shipped but it works really well considering what I paid.I decided to pop it open because I got a new one which has a bit better video quality and I found this.The battery is pooffy if you can't tell. I poked it slightly with my finger and it all gas.I'm not sure what I should do... I assume its bad thing to have around although its been in a car for almost 2 years. Through the heat cycles of Houston(140+ in the car?)I would like to continue using the camera since it still works really well. It just no longer keeps time when unpowered.It has like glue or epoxy on the one side holding it down so trying to remove it could be difficult. Can I pop it in an outdoor space or is that like a lithium gas that's going to spontaneously burn when exposed to the air.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:35:12 am
content: I think I have seen them catch fire when punctured, so don't do that.Li-poly cells can puff up either due to poor manufacturing quality of the cell, or due to mistreatment (over charging or over discharging).It would be best to unsolder the wires then remove and replace the cell if you can. Dispose of the old cell carefully. The glue holding the cell may be loosened if you warm it with a hairdryer.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:35:49 am
content: Take outside and cut with a sharp knife to release the vapour, then simply put in the ewaste bin. You can get a new battery to fit in there, just buy a RC helicopter or plane cell with a protection board and solder it's leads onto the board and it will work like new again. Otherwise an old cellphone battery that fits can be soldered to the red and black leads.The battery is there to power the camera so it can do housekeeping and close the recording off when you power it off, as it records a stream of data to the card and only updates the SD card FAT on end of recording or when it has done the time in recording each block of video. This is to keep the writes down on the FAT section, as otherwise every block there would be erased and rewritten many times a second as the file grows. This way there is only a single write with a new file name and starting block number followed then a single write with the end block number and a filestamp and file size.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:39:38 am
content: I would not cut it, for safety reasons.we often have swollen batteries like this on 5 or more years old laptops (sometimes less)it's a normal way of death for lithium batteries.the manufacturer tells us to dispose of them in ewaste and not destroy them by cutting them.if you take a minimum care it must not open and catch fire.

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:41:06 am
content: I have one that looks the same as yours.Ill have a look before my car burns down.Thanks for sharing this.

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:46:26 am
content: The issue I have is getting it off the board without tearing the bag.The battery's completely dead so not much is going to change there. End of the streams often have corrupted data anyways.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:46:49 am
content: All I can picture is:

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:48:10 am
content: Quote from: qno on February 15, 2015, 07:41:06 amThe entire bottom edge was glued on mine so after I popped the tabs on the top/sides I had to use a little force to get it apart.

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:48:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 15, 2015, 07:46:49 am"ForbiddenYou do not have permission to access this document."Might be an issue there.Good old hotlink protection.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:51:09 am
content: Quote from: masshuu on February 15, 2015, 07:48:36 amHere is the image

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:52:02 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 15, 2015, 07:51:09 amYeah I cleared the referral and it loaded.

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:59:59 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on February 15, 2015, 07:51:26 amI have a large 55 gallon drum I can put it on outside... Under a large tree. As for Voltmeter, I don't know if my $2 voltmeter would cut it. It was reading about 1.2ish volts? might have also been a flea farting near it.For safety I got.. No shirt on and some Srcubs for pants. Is chest hair a proper PPE?I might consider finding a large value cap and sticking that in there. I wonder if it would work without any other additives. Right now I just want to get the battery removed.

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 08:12:57 am
content: It came off without an issue. I used a guitar pick under the top side and just used it as a lever and it just popped right off. Even made a little popping sound. So now its sitting outside still.I can make an /r/popping video out of it or something. Not sure how to dispose of it now.Thats why the bottom edge was glued. All the glue from the battery melted and is polled along the bottom. Probably also why it came off without issue. Most of the glue was gone.I wonder if this will work. Could only find 2 large value caps. this is the only one that will physically fit.Seems to not corrupt the ends of the video now so it should work. Time is still lost if its left unpowered for more than 30 seconds but meh.Can't really find anything over 1000uf other than a motherboard with 1500uf caps. Might be able to fit 2 or 3 in the case. Not sure if its worth it.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:05:05 am
content: 2200uF will not work, you really need a 1.0F 5V5 supercapacitor instead. This has to store enough power to drive the unit for about 20 seconds so it can detect the power loss, carry on recording ( post impact recording) then save the data and then shut down. then it will have enough power stored to do that, and keep the clock running till the next time the car is started.You must have an old cell phone battery that will fit there, a BL5C or BL6 Nokia battery will likely fit there, and the red and black wires are easy to solder to the contacts on the battery. This will work perfectly.

author: masshuu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:11:48 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 15, 2015, 09:05:05 amOnly issue there is the case won't close now. Don't have anything lying around near that size. 2200 is the biggest I can find on any board lying around.No old phones either. As noted before I intend to use my new one primarly. This one might be useful for other cases. Like this from last year:

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:24:01 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 15, 2015, 09:05:05 aminstead of using a several years old battery from a phone, i would suggest to visit a RC-shop and buy a single cell lipo which will fit. there are many battery sizes in the RC world, so you'll find one which will fit.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:28:32 am
content: To render a lithium battery safe leave it in a bucket of water for 24 hours.A teaspoon or 2 of salt in the water will hurry it up a bit.Leave the bucket outside of cause.The conductivity of the water drains all the charge out of the battery.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:45:39 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 15, 2015, 09:28:32 amand as soon as the water gets in, it will explodethank you very muchi would rather bury it in a bucket of sand with a resistor connected to it's terminals to discharge it.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:59:39 am
content: Just take it outside and shoot it, that's what I do. I put them on a wall and shoot them with a .22 air rifle, as of yet not one has gone bang. Where you are you would be able to use something bigger which might have the desired effect, would make a good youtube vid.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 10:52:06 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 15, 2015, 09:45:39 amThey do not explode if you open the foil wrap, it just fizzles a bit and that is all. Then you can take it apart and see the internal construction of the 2 metal foils with the active material on them as a paste, with the plastic film separator.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 11:45:14 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 15, 2015, 10:52:06 amyeah, i seen several lipo firesno worries... but if it's fizzling once the moisture get's in, then imagine what will happen if a serious amount of water gets it. small batteries will cause no significant damage (but still will do), but the big ones could even kill you when water gets into them.. just lookup lithium reaction - see how violent the lithium + water reaction is and guess what is the gas escaping during the reaction...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 12:27:47 pm
content: Here in the humid tropics all I do is cut the bag and leave it for a day outside, the humid air is very good at neutralising any metallic lithium safely. For a small pack all I do is cut then dunk in a big bucket of water, this will provide enough mass to keep it from overheating. I have taken 18650 cells apart this way just by cutting a slit into the end of the case opposite the seal then leaving overnight outside, Next day dunk in bucket and cut open with pliers under water and no gas evolved at all as all hydrogen had dissipated.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:56:44 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 15, 2015, 07:35:49 amI wouldn't cut them. Also, to discharge, leave them outdoor in salted water for a few days.These batteries are dangerous, search YouTube for lipo fire.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 03:31:32 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 15, 2015, 11:45:14 amThere is no metallic lithium in lithium ion or lithium polymer batteries.Also water is the recommended thing for putting out lithium ion fires. If you put a lithium ion battery in water it will render it safe.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 03:49:51 pm
content: Only time you get metallic lithium metal is if you go over about 5V on the terminals during charging, when it will likely plate liquid metal on the one electrode. That will go bang nicely, though you will need a big cell to get enough metal.Cr2032 cells cut in half in a bucket of water there is a little bubbling and nothing else aside from the organic solvent electrolyte. That is the cause of the fire when ignited, not any evolved gas but the burning electrolyte.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 06:06:56 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 15, 2015, 03:31:32 pmhmm... didn't knew that, i was assuming it has metalic lithium like the litium coin cells.

author: radiomog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 06:33:42 pm
content: A few years ago, my iFone 3Gs was not holding a charge, so I got a couple battery replacement kits and changed it.a couple months ago, same thing all over again. So I decide to use the spare battery I bought when I replaced the first.open up the phone, same situation as the original poster..ballooned battery.got out the spare.. same thing.. I wrote the whole thing off

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 02:44:39 am
content: Perfectly normal and safe. Everything is operating as designed. Bog standard lipo cell too, used all over the place, esp RC helicopters. eBay. Solder in new one. Done.http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X3.7v+180mah.TRS0&_nkw=3.7v+180mah&_sacat=0Of course, finding one that physically fits is another story, and usually the mAH ratings change over time so you might need to look for slightly different mAH to find one that fits.Send the old one to FPSRussia, maybe he'll find a way to blow it up.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 07:38:24 pm
content: People on the RC forums would recommend you to place the battery in a bucket of salted water so slowly kill it and when it's completely dead you can dispose of it.There won't be any energy left in the battery thus it's won't explode.