AngloAmerican - Dawson Mine - High Voltage Flashover - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 04:55:42 pm
content: Does anyone know more interesting leaning videos like this?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 05:09:49 pm
content: Anyone know what software is used to do animations like this?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 05:29:48 pm
content: Quite interesting video and yes, that is a heck of an animation job.I have seen other animations that are related to electrical and architectural installations and they are quite advanced - I have never used a specific SW for these, thus I have no idea how much work is required. I dabble with Blender and it is quite a tall order to reach that level.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 05:45:00 pm
content: Animations? I've seen real flashovers on Youtube.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:04:01 pm
content: My guess is they used a commercial game engine and standard tools like Maya and so on. There are a lot of tools for game developers that are used. A 3rd or 4th year student in animation could probably do something like that in a month or so.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on January 02, 2018, 05:45:00 pmYes, too voyeristic for my liking, give me a good educational animation any day!

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 09:35:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 02, 2018, 05:09:49 pmThe character movements look like it came from 'SmithMicro Software's Poser Pro'.It's been around since 2014.https://youtu.be/b8KIIp8tYkU

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:51:04 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on January 02, 2018, 05:45:00 pmSame here, after a good dose of those on YoutubeI amEXTRAextra careful, test gear go/no go diligent, and untrusting of everything and everyonewhen I'm near any hard core ZAP devicesListening to the victims and the impact to survivors and or deceased families etc seals the deal for me = hurried 'she'll be right' attitude and or mixed risky sh!t on a job isn't worth it,it's money or job worth losing to get back home intact

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:56:47 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on January 02, 2018, 09:35:42 pmThe video was published in 2012.I think hindsight is a wonderful thing. The electricians probably had too much pressured from above to get it fixed, so too unnecessary risks. There was probably also an element of overconfidence too: they believed they knew more than they actually did and made assumptions.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 04:01:03 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 02, 2018, 10:56:47 pmEarlier versions of SmithMicro Software's Poser Pro existed since 2007.Yes, I agree, upper management pressure was probably the tipping point which created the whole ordeal.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 05:36:53 am
content: Working title: "Beavis and Butt-Head Visit a Distribution Substation"

author: Decoman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 08:22:38 am
content: I am reminded of something I think I learned when learning to drive a truck/bus many years ago, that there is this large part around where the tires go onto that has a breaking mechanism, which you must never disassemble yourself as there is a spring under tension inside, which may kill you if the parts come loose next to you.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 09:22:22 am
content: BEWARE people that say"I got this..."ensure lots of distance between you and them, just before they'get it'

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 01:00:02 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on January 03, 2018, 09:22:22 amOr they say, "Hold my beer, watch this." That is a catchphrase that someone is about to die.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 01:18:59 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on January 03, 2018, 04:01:03 amI would say it is management error from start to finish. Employees or contractors should never be put in a position where they are expected to "wing it" to get a job done.

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 01:46:04 pm
content: I wonder about the measurement technique used in this situation. To summarize from the video:1) Guy A measures the voltage on the HV outlets using a HV instrument, which says low voltage is present.2) Guy B measures the voltage on the HV outlets using a common multimeter.3) Unexpected equipment behaviour suddenly causes the HV outlets to go back to 22kV.So... what if the order of 2) and 3) is changed? It appears to me that dealing with 22kV safely is a tall order even for a good multimeter. I would think that from this it follows that one must never probe a HV outlet using a multimeter, even if it's off (because it might turn back on.) But then how would you detect, say, that a HV outlet carries a still dangerous 110V, which is maybe too low for a HV instrument to measure accurately?As for the story – while I'm obviously not from the field, the actions and decisions taken seem to go from reasonable at first to ridiculously bad in the end. Even without hindsight, it seems hard to believe that they thought it a good idea to start drilling into a HV apparatus. I guess after dealing with this for a day, they'd become so fixated on their goal of getting their original machine working again, that reasonable thought, doubt, and risk evaluation fell by the wayside. "We've come this far, we'll not quit now!" Imo this thought, encountered in yourself or in others, should be taken as a moment to take a break, step back, and evaluate what's about to happen.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 03:43:50 pm
content: I thought it was particularly useful that the narration/script identified SEVERAL critical points in the scenario where common-sense should have been more rigorously applied and where the process should have been stopped.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:58:10 pm
content: Watch someone that is used to working with high voltage and/or high current circuits, when they turn something on they grab the big lever then move to one side and face away from the panel before activating the circuit, that way if there is a flashover they don't get it in the face.Also, face masks, gloves, and (if possible) fireproof overalls, these are an absolute requirement.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 05:01:59 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on January 05, 2018, 04:58:10 pmFace away with a face mask on and it might just funnel the blast across your face.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 09:52:09 pm
content: OK, it looks like we may have a disagreement here. I was always taught (and I have always seen) operators face away from a high energy panel before activating them. If anyone has been taught differently then now is the time to speak up.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 12:04:47 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on January 05, 2018, 09:52:09 pmIt's the combination of face shield and facing away I'm not sure about. I have zero HV experience so I could be blatantly wrong, but a face shield when for instance grinding tends to work optimally head on and doesn't protect as well at angles.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 02:27:20 am
content: Quote from: Decoman on January 03, 2018, 08:22:38 amI repaired a seat belt tensioner which was like that. When they marked "Caution: Do Not Remove" on the plastic cover over the coil spring, they were not kidding.

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 02:55:15 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 05, 2018, 05:01:59 pmClearly that is a case of choosing the wrong PPE for the task.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 03:10:27 am
content: Quote from: Andy Watson on January 06, 2018, 02:55:15 amIf I look at the picture below, I think a head on blast might be better than one that can catch the inside of the mask because you turned away. A bit like an umbrella works best when held firmly between you and the rain. Again, I am familiar with grinding, not HV work, so I'm comparing it to the things I know.