Audiophile ethernet switch - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: connectTek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 08:29:58 am
content: Are they serious?https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/uptone-audio-etherregen-ethernet-switch

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 09:08:20 am
content: They are serious about taking your money.Do not that there is a Stockholm Syndrome style mutual understanding pact between peddlers of this shit, editors in the ad-infested glossies that "review" it and the fools who buy it; they've agreed to never subject these things to proper testing in a way that would isolate bias from measurements.If you mention "double-blind testing" to these people, you will quickly be seen as a non-believer and there will be warnings issued about you. The fact resistance level equals current political situation in a large federation of states.Why double-blind?Because you can't trust anyone, not even yourself. Take yourself out of the equation, as much as possible.Why is an Ethernet switch for audiophiles (nearly) bullshit?Because these people do not understand the insane amount of buffering and clock abstraction going on in what we in broadcast media technology call "file based contribution", which is our name forftp'ing wav files instead of throwing the tapes in a courier envelope.The digitizing device has a clock. The D/A device has a clock. Between those two points there is a buffer whose length only is determined by our ability to store bits over time.Whatdoesmatter, then?Mostly, the clock accuracy, and the A/D-D/A converter accuracy. The rest is just maintaining binary data integrity. Long list of 16-bit integers.</soapbox>Edit: there is a paper saying "bad circuit design is bad". And this "device" is sold as a band-aid. I'd suggest getting proper electronics that work instead. And, put the money into speakers instead. That's a hard problem that can be incrementally solved.

author: Dennis Frie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 10:06:23 am
content: There's nothing like hifi, where an USB-cable, power-cable or fuse can cost the same as a now oscilloscopeA 640$ HiFi ethernet switch, geez..It would be fun to see some actual measurements showing the difference between any standard switch, but guess you can't tell the difference at all

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 11:52:16 am
content: We almost need a dedicated Audiophool section.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 12:09:06 pm
content: Technically it's possible for an ethernet switch to have an effect on audio quality it if the audio is being transferred over the AVB protocol using PTP for tight synchronization. This allows the playback/recording clock speed to be synchronized for all of the nodes, allowing for very short buffers to be used, minimizing latency without having to do aggressive quickly adjusting resampling to keep the buffer at the correct level. In theory the tighter the timings of the AVB supporting networking equipment the more stable the timing information is.However... this switch does not claim to support AVB or PTP. So even if you are using AVB to transfer audio over ethernet, including this switch in the chain would break the required continual chain of AVB capable networking gear and cause AVB to fail synchronization, thus making audio quality worse in comparison to a proper non-audiophile switch. Nor would using AVB make any sense to use in the first place for playing back audio recordings, since the entire audio recording is already available means you can just download 10 seconds worth of future audio as a buffer and play that buffer back at whatever the local audio clock dictates, removing the need for any timing synchronization in the first place. Especially when the typical use case for home network audio is playing back an already encoded MP3,OGG,FLAC...etc from a NASEDIT:Oh and they do have board shots on the manufacturers website...so aparantly you need galvanic isolation for ethernet.... that is galvanicaly isolated by a transformer on each end already...https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 12:42:59 pm
content: Given the connection for an external clock, it's surely only a matter of time (sorry)(not sorry) until we see an audiophool version of rubidium standards and GPSDO...

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 12:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 09, 2021, 12:42:59 pmNot a matter of time .....https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antelope-10MX-Rubidium-Atomic-Master-Clock-w-10-x-10-MHz-Atomic-Clock-Outputs/193238040423PRS-10 in disguise w some bufferhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Esoteric-G01X-Master-Clock-Generator-in-Silver-in-120V-Made-in-Japan/274332842567Rubidium "master clock" has been $$$$$ for a long time

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 01:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on January 09, 2021, 12:51:42 pmAnd this is why I have to work for a living instead of selling overpriced tat to phools...

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 03:41:59 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on January 09, 2021, 12:09:06 pmI work for a living transporting audio in near-realtime. Not using shit protocols like AVB (I hate L2-only protocols with a fury that is hard to describe.) but using AES67 and similar. I know exactly how bad it is going to be if the PTPv2 clock is not good enough. I have measured it.To be completely honest, as you state above this switch is not even close to supporting the feature set necessary to do this the hard way. So, instead of implementing features necessary to actually make the network a relevant component in clock distribution, they take a jellybean Ethernet chipset and pimp it with expensive-sounding bling components and raise the price to "silly". And all you get is a unconfigurable switch with a SFP cage. That costs roughly 1/4 of the asking price for this device. Also, the £123switchI found with some googling is all gigE, no shitty 100Mbit ports.If they want to do something properly, they could build a silent 24-port GE (half/half copper/SFP, PoE on all copper) + 4 port 10GE managed switch with a functional and complete PTPv2 implementation, 19" rack mount, dual power supplies, and sub 30cm mounting depth. Preferably for about 1000€. I'd buy several dozen for work, giving Cisco a worthy contender. As it is now, I have jet engine equipped data center monster switches like the Nexus 93180 and 9348. Excellent switches, but you can't have them in your stereo rack.But, since they're not solving the hard problem, and have all the time in the world,any bleeping switch will do.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 03:48:02 pm
content: And for this episode of "Pimp my Switch" we'll have a look at the latest audiophoolery switches.PS: If you want to be blown away, try some second hand Nortel Optera DWDM long haul systems.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 07:28:09 pm
content: There will always be crooks and fools.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 10:34:09 am
content: I had no idea Audiophiles had conquered network equipment as well, anyhow today I foundthisspecimen, the Silent Angel Bonn NX, a 3500€ 8-port ethernet switch - bargain.Update I foundthe US website- the description is just as hilarious as the german one from the shop I linked above. Here is part of the description:Quote

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 08:44:03 am
content: Quote from: Traceless on May 31, 2025, 10:34:09 amWTF!!!!!I m out of words to express my disdain... The fact that such a product exists.. or that there is a market for it...

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 10:55:34 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 09, 2021, 11:52:16 amSomething like this ->https://www.facebook.com/groups/497838033628570

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 06:58:30 pm
content: Looking at their website and other websites selling it it I see it is written in German and hardly no English.So it seems that they are scamming their own kind.I thought the Germans united their own "kind" during World War 2, not that stupid and wouldn't have fallen for something like this and try to scam themselves for something like this to exist in their own market targeted at them.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 07:07:11 pm
content: Actually, scam artists often target their “own kind”.Charles Ponzi targeted Italian immigrants with his fraudulent scheme in 1920 (the rest is history).There are notorious more recent schemes targeting religious groups (e.g., Jews or Mormons) and even one targeting deaf people.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 07:28:40 pm
content: The vendor (https://www.silent-angel.audio/) claims to be a Chinese company, a subsidiary of Thunder Data, founded by someone who studied in Germany.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2025, 11:54:30 am
content: Quote from: Berni on January 09, 2021, 12:09:06 pmSay what you want about that switch, they at least rolled their own. That might even be a "reasonable" price, considering the likely very small production volume.There are other "audiophile" ethernet switches that are just bog-standard OEM switches (I have seen D-Link and Cisco used) with some caps and the crystal shoddily replaced and a new sticker on the box. That are then sold for $800 or more.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2025, 12:18:19 pm
content: Quote from: connectTek on January 09, 2021, 08:29:58 amThey could be serious, and some of this stuff actually is serious, and quite dangerous asthis famous review of too-perfect audio cablespoints out. Heed the warnings! Do not use the audiophile switches!

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 09:37:39 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on June 04, 2025, 12:18:19 pmThat's the essential idea: As the transfer is packet-based anyway, it needs buffers at the sender and receiver - even resending packages is built-in. So "low jitter", super-precise linear PSUs, heavy metal shielding, gold plating - *everything* is utter nonsense. Just buy the cheapest switch you could find, it does audio transfer over network perfectly fine.

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 09:56:03 am
content: This is probably the most egregious one I've seencheck out the tear down section for the "crystal oscillator"and audio grade stickers. (It is literally just a d-link switch with stickers on it for 400EUR ) a complete scam.

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 10:03:14 am
content: And a lot of these products are from quite large established brands based in the UK, Germany, US. I've even emailed a couple of them asking about how their "technology" improves audio quality. Somehow none of them have ever responded....

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 01:29:54 pm
content: Because their "technology" is just a dirt cheap standard switch chip with a lot of marketing nonsense.

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 02:27:41 pm
content: "That interference affects the playback. We still have to prove this with measurements. So don’t hold us to that… However, we have a strong suspicion."hmm a strong suspicion"Perhaps a budget approach might be to buy 4 Dlink switches and some short cables and see if that brings about a clear improvement. The dlink switches seem to be quite cheap, I bought one for £11 on ebay, maybe I should buy 3 more to see what that does. "They seem to think just adding more switches in series will yield some sort of gain?! , this is the sort of stuff that frustrates me most as someone who does like nice quality audio stuff (where it actually makes a difference)Fromhttps://www.alpha-audio.net/review/multitest-the-best-switch-for-streaming-audio/3/"Simpler 100mbps network switch chip results in lower operating noise floor compared to Gigabit"Translation: we couldn't be bothered to put gigabit in our £3300 network switch so we decided to make it a selling point!" a blacker background, better instrument separation and realism."Translation: There isn't a difference we're just making shit up.From:https://petertyson.co.uk/innuos-phoenix-net-audiophile-grade-network-switch-silverAny retailer that sells this crap I automatically won't buy from they're basically complicit in a scam.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 12:26:29 am
content: Quote from: PascalNE on June 05, 2025, 02:27:41 pmThey forgot to mention soundstage! How can you sell woo-woo without telling you how much it improves the soundstage?As an aside, why do people make fun of audiophools when they go on about this stuff but don't laugh at someone who describes their bottle of rotten grape juice with "the nose is decadent but not overdone with plum liqueur, Christmas cake, cedar, Chinese spices, licorice, tea leaves, tar and hot stones. Full and very dense with mouth-coating tannins but also attractive fresh fruit, pretty acidity and a long finish"? That's just someone in a tweed jacket making shit up.

author: showman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 03:59:12 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on June 06, 2025, 12:26:29 amBecause the different rotten grape juices are like different headphones that actually do sound different. There are ones that are plain awful like the ones you get for free on airplanes, chi-fi which are hit or miss or higher end ones which although distinctly different, are all good. Ethernet switches, on the other hand, are like the bottles themselves. It's mostly glass, or even cardboard, but if you tell me that a rotten grape juice from a diamond bottle tastes better than that from a glass one, then.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 09:43:51 am
content: Wine tasting descriptors:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting_descriptors

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2025, 05:46:55 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on June 06, 2025, 12:26:29 amHaving said that, I should hasten to add that there is at least one... uhh, drink where the description is quite honest:Quote They're not legally allowed to claim it's a wine, so they have to call it an aperitif.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2025, 05:53:40 am
content: Quote from: showman on June 06, 2025, 03:59:12 amSure, there are different qualities of wine, just as there are different qualities of audio gear, I was commenting more on the fact that someone is getting "plum liqueur, Christmas cake, cedar, Chinese spices, licorice, tea leaves, tar and hot stones" from a glass of wine, which sounds awfully like an audiophool going on about soundstage (as opposed to a sound stage) and imaging and the fact that with these new cables you can detect the fact that the third violin has slight indigestion.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2025, 02:18:56 pm
content: That lingo is meant the describe the taste of wine, to categorize the taste. It's harder than describing sound (taste involves more than just one sense). But yes, we could use some flowery lingo for sound too. However, the audiophoolery lingo tries to describe something which isn't there, some imaginary changes in sound. Victims of audiophoolery might be possibly excused because of a cognitive dissonance (they paid so much, it must sound better).

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 11:45:28 am
content: That is the key difference: wines are different, whereas the bitstream from a cheap cable is the same as the bitstream from an expensive one,providingthe cheap cable isn't actually so bad it introduces bit errors.

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 11:58:15 am
content: Yes that's what makes the digital audiophile stuff the worst. In wines, a more expensive wine may taste different to a less expensive wine, whether the more expensive wine isbetteris a matter of opinion.But a digital cablecannotmake a difference (provided it's not cut in half)I think the only thing in audio that doesn't have an easily quantifiable "best" is speakers (and amplifiers to an extent) the combination of acoustics and electronics makes it much more complex than just a SINAD number.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 01:50:28 pm
content: Yep! Each component of a stereo system has a frequency response, distortion and so on, all easily measurable. Your hearing has a frequency response too, measurable within limits. And on top of that you have a personal preference for a specific sound. e.g. bassy and tube harmonics.Some smaller speakers for 100 bucks might sound great for you, but not great for someone else who prefers bass. However, that someone might be happy with larger speakers with two bass drivers for 250 bucks, and speakers for 20k wouldn't sound any better or different for him. There's a huge difference between cheap junk and good stuff. But beyond the good stuff, which doesn't imply it has to be expensive, you'l find only smoke and mirrors. For example, I have an old speaker kit with Pioneer drivers (two bass, middle, tweeter, no bass reflex) with a relative linear frequency response) which is exactly what I like, and it was inexpensive (300 DM or so for the pair) - a bargain.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 03:21:09 pm
content: I encourage budding audiophiles to attend live concerts of acoustic music to see how music actually sounds without electrical intermediation.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 03:30:13 pm
content: QuoteBut but they used the wrong wall covering its taking away some of the soundstage and the seat is causing micro vibrations interfering with the tone.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 05:40:38 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 08, 2025, 03:30:13 pmActually you can get round that as follows. Find some 110mm UPVC plastic waste pipe. Cut a length 178mm* long, as accurately as you can get it. It's better to cut very slightly longer, then smooth the cut end on 240 grit, then 400 grit sandpaper, until the length is exactly 178mm. Make sure the pipe is perfectly vertical when standing on the cut end.Place a small table in the middle of the room. The type and material isn't important; a coffee table would be ideal. Place the pipe on the table, in the middle (as judged by eye) - it isn't critical to a millimetre or two.Now try listening to your favourite test piece. The degree to which it restores the soundstage is remarkable. Experiment by removing the pipe from the coffee table, then replacing it - both the depth and width of the soundstage are restored to their original dimensions by the resonant energy from the interaction between the table top and the pipe.For the best possible effect we recommend the pipe resonator manufactured for us by a precision plastics company, available from our Web shop at a very reasonable £499.*178mm is the diameter of the pipe (110mm) multiplied by the golden ratio (1.61803).

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 06:50:12 pm
content: Most frustrating audiophile products IMO,- Audiophile fuses- Cable lifters- Network switches- Digital cables- Mains cords- whatever the hell this ishttps://www.referenceaudio.co.uk/synergistic-research-gct#variant_21243For expensive preamps and speakers I can appreciate that some design effort has been made even if it isn't actually better The products that piss me off the most are the ones where the marketing paragraph took more effort than the product!

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 08:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 08, 2025, 01:50:28 pmAh yes, cheap speakers.My main stereo speakers these days are a pair of "Acoustic Monitor dbIV"s that I got years ago, can't even remember exactly where, some secondhand shop, for $cheap (I think I paid something like $30 for the pair).They are, to my ears, pretty damn good speakers; 3-way w/10" bass drivers, ported in a heavy-enough cabinet. Very good sounding. A bit cheesy-looking (fake "wood grain" vinyl covering) but who cares? They're speakers.Well, a few years ago I was reading some audio forums online and I discovered that what I had were a couple of the infamous "white van" speakers; these were cheap speakers that were sold mostly out of the back of vans (many of which apparently were white) to unsuspecting rubes for inflated prices. The company that distributed them was eventually hauled into court and charged with fraud.None of which changes the fact that for my purposes, as a serious listener (but not an audiophool), these speakers are just fine. I was thinking a while ago that I might want to replace the bass drivers with some more beefy ones (the existing ones have somewhat small magnets), but the more I listen to them, the less I feel motivated to go to all that trouble.I can crank up the volume on exciting, booming music (like, say, one of my favorites, Tchaikovsky'sFrancesca da Rimini, lotsagran cassa(bass drum), cymbals, etc., fortissimo) and it all sounds fairly glorious.Sometimes good enough is good enough.These are them:https://reverb.com/item/10462478-acoustic-monitor-db-iv-90s-faux-walnut

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 08:30:04 pm
content: Anyone recognise the switch IC? Probably same as what's in a lot of cheaper switches.

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 08:38:06 pm
content: Really the audio world is built entirely on hype. Of course there is a threshold that you reach where the diminishing returns start I'm pretty sure I've found that with my £200 wharfedaleshttps://www.whathifi.com/reviews/wharfedale-diamond-121A year ago or so fueled by interest in the technology and spurred on by the great reviews, I bought a pair of martin logan sript electrostatic speakers (admittedly their lowest end offering). And how did they sound...... no where near as clear. Luckily they only cost me £100 for the pair being "broken" (but I managed to fix them)My conclusion is from all my experiences is that a nicewell reviewed modern speakers will nearly always outperform vintage speakers(audibly) even "audiophile" ones ( I've also heard Quad ESL 57's 63's etc that my Grandfather owns)(although I must admit I still like my cheap but powerful vintage amps right now I have my Musical Fidelity Synthesis running)Another shameful admission I must make is that I only joined this community looking for a multimeter to help me make an R2R DAC (an audiophile product with "immeasurable advantages") I've since given up on that project.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 10:11:27 pm
content: Of course an ethernet switch in a typical setting, using TCP to stream audio asynchronously using relatively large buffers, has absolutely zero impact on sound unless it's so borked that it delays packets for longer that a buffer can hold, which in practice never happens unless maybe you were streaming hundreds of channels with very small buffers. That's absolutely not what happens with a HiFi install which will typically stream audio data from a NAS to a DAC.So, while some "audiophile" gear is nonsense but could be difficult to spot for someone with no EE background, *this* is complete nonsense that everyone should be able to understand with just basic computer literacy.Now there are real uses for specialty network switches for audio when using "real-time" protocols (such as AES67 or DANTE), but that's a completely different story for different needs. There's no need for any of those protocols for listening to music in your living room, and I haven't seen any "audiophile" gear claiming to implement AES67 or DANTE anyway.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 10:33:57 pm
content: QuoteEven then dante dosnt need anything fancy,the only real advantage of AV grade switches was they let you use ethercons for a more rugged connection

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 12:51:40 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 08, 2025, 03:30:13 pmThat can be easily solved through a process a friend of mine came up with many years ago for the perfect audio experience. I can't remember all the details but one of the steps involved hollowing out your head and placing a point sound source at the centre. There was something about parallel universes as well.Can't believe no audiophool has done this yet when the solution for perfect audio is so obvious.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 12:56:22 am
content: Quote from: PascalNE on June 08, 2025, 06:50:12 pmLooks like the wheel off a drinks trolley. So maybe you remove them to stop the drinks circulating further, than help yourself to the contents to add a nice warm fuzziness to the sound.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 01:09:06 am
content: Quote from: PascalNE on June 08, 2025, 06:50:12 pmOh good god. I hadn't seen that until our rectifier friend (5U4GB) commented on it.That shit really takes the cake.A "component" only connected at one endto a ground point.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 05:50:39 am
content: There is some amount of reasoning behind audiophiles.Some components (especially speakers, headphones, vinyl styluses..etc) do sound noticeably different. In the old days of analog and amplifiers made from discrete components..etc most components DO affect the sound in some noticeable way. Heck even speaker cables can affect the sound. Not because the cable itself is a filter, but because the parasitics of the cable load the amplifier differently and change its distortion slightly. However as audio gear got better with more modern technology the levels of distortion introduced by it has went down to a point where it can be difficult to even measure, let alone hear.So people who have been into audio for a long time have actually experienced the difference in sound that a simple amplifier can make. So they know it matters what gear they buy. Surely the more expensive gear sounds better, since why would it be so expensive otherwise? The gear being expensive makes them think it sounds better (self confirmation bias is a powerful thing) and so they DO hear it sounds better... just don't expect their friends to hear the difference. Audio is a very subjective thing.Problem is indeed that most audiophiles are not engineers, so they can't spot snake oil like we can. People selling audiophile snake oil know that and take full advantage.

author: PascalNE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 05:55:21 am
content: QuoteSounds very plausible.QuoteI mean is it possible to ever prove these products are falsely advertised “rich soundstage” is not measurable but noise floor certainly is.QuoteOh and don’t worry if you bought their £2000 ground block the £350 GCTs still work.You can also buy the PHT (you stick that on your phono cartridge) an HFT (you stick those on your wall?!) and ECT ( seems to just be whatever) and of course they all cost hundreds ( and they’ll only work if you buy 5)

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 10:26:39 am
content: Quote from: Berni on June 09, 2025, 05:50:39 amI agree. We've all heard the difference between a cheap old radio and a modern receiver amplifier.There are two observations I would make. Firstly, the audiophile's obsession with driving down amplifier distortion by another faxtor of ten is misplaced when you consider that the end of the chain is - as Berni says - your loudspeakers, and their performance is TERRIBLE compared with even modest amplifiers. The frequency response curve and distortion of even the best speakers would get an amplifier designer sacked. Of course, that doesn't mean the amplifier doesn't matter - it does, because the stages in the chain add up - but it's worth keeping in mind where the big limitations are and where the money needs to be spent.Secondly, I think it is safe to say that when it comes to "hi-fi" amplifiers, their performance exceeded that of our ears a few decades ago, and since then we've been fiddling around to no real effect.What saddens me are audiophools who think they can hear the difference between two digital cables, when there is literally and absolutely no difference whatsoever in the signal being clocked out of the receiving buffer. That alone undermines every other claim they make about sound reproduction.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 04:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 08, 2025, 10:33:57 pmIt doesn't require fancy stuff indeed, but has some requirements, such as DSCP QoS, which many Ethernet switches provide, but you need to choose them accordingly. It's nothing special, just something that may not be present in the cheap crap you can find on Aliex. So, yes, we're very far from anything "fancy".Point was, for simple streaming of audio in your house, you don't need any of this and even a $10 ethernet switch with no QoS feature will do just fine.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 06:04:29 pm
content: Quotethought that was only a recommendation,especially if using 100meg networks,although its been a while since i played with audinates voodoo so i could be remembering wrong

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 02:01:02 am
content: Just as a general reference/FYI reading,'You Are Not So Smart': Why We Can't Tell Good Wine From Bad.I did something similar with a friend many years ago, got a bottle of Two Buck Chuck and accompanied it with a flyer from some other winery with Charles in the name, with as-neutral-as-possible priming of "I was given this, don't know if it's any good". They pronounced it "very drinkable".

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 02:47:47 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on June 10, 2025, 02:01:02 amYour friend may have been right. These Charles Shaw wines have sometimes done quite well in tastings:Quote

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:03:53 am
content: What was the rebadged couple hundred dollar cd player put in a new cabinet and sold for $5000 or so?I had in a/b comparisons in the 70's of B&O stylus cantilevers heard the difference. The sapphire cantilever had a subtle difference, compared to the beryllium one, etc. Not better, different, on reference LP's used for years to compare most everything in our little audiophile circle.All back in the analog days when audio was hard.Now, amps and other stuff in the digital domain is easy, the crap is left in room acoustics, speakers, and listener's ears.Recently picked up some donation LPs at a sax player's home. He had speaker wires lifted from floor mounts, sticker weights on windows, a large class a amp, etc.Sticker weights could dampen some ratting, i'm sure. Anyway he played some recordings for my opinion.First the metal amp cover was buzzing from the sound, he then placed something on top of it. i heard some whistling, Looking under the speaker grill, Some pinholes in the speaker cone surrounds.So much money spent and not noticing.I don't put any customer down about their stuff, just say it could be improved or fixed if asked.