FORUM DISRUPTION: Server Upgrade - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 02:14:58 pm
content: The server will get more RAM tomorrow and will go down for up to a few hours:https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=EEVblog+Server+down+for+upgrade&iso=20170328T02&p1=70&ah=2

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 05:09:52 am
content: Please also note that after the server comes back online there will be a period of tuning which will cause various errors and timeouts, I will update this thread when this is completed, there is no need to report these and I apologize in advance for the frustration it will cause.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:06:34 am
content: The server has been configured to take advantage of the additional RAM, it will be monitored closely over the next few days to see if any additional improvements can be made. There should be no more outages unless noted here prior. Performance feedback is very welcome here.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:20:57 am
content: Am getting the 502 bad gateway errors again just a few minutes ago, though the forum is going just fine.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:21:20 am
content: Was supposed to get 16GB RAM, but got 32GB for some reasonThe MySQL queries has jumped fairly dramatically, seems it now able to process many more requests per second

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:25:23 am
content: Thanks dudes!

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:28:23 am
content: It feels a lot faster now when opening topics. Before the upgrade sometimes I had to wait a few seconds, couldn't see this now while reading some topics.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:30:04 am
content: Seems faster for me too.Opening topics, opening a reply, and posting a reply.

author: nugglix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:34:31 am
content: Thread refresh (F5 in open thread page) is now in the sub-second range.Clearly some sort of success, I'd say.Thanks for the time/money spent!Hmm... question: do I need to read faster now?PS: Posting preview also sub-second response.

author: MrBungle
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:34:41 am
content: When you said tomorrow, I figured tomorrow.... also known as Wednesday.All good, minimal disruptionGreat work guys.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:42:18 am
content: After you've run for a couple of days, I highly recommend mysqltuner.pl ; it'll help show bottlenecks (and over-allocations) in your existing my.cnf

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:42:43 am
content: Quote from: boffin on March 28, 2017, 08:42:18 amIt is the tool of the trade

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:04:57 am
content: The slowness I've been seing over the last week or so seems to have gone away.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:10:36 am
content: Browsing o tapatalk... super fast

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:19:39 am
content: In gnif we trust, well done and many thanks.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:30:15 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 28, 2017, 09:17:15 amNo worries mate. The pickup in qps is coincides with the MyIASM to InnoDB conversion on those final few tables, we are seeing far fewer lock contentions and as such the total server throughput went up. It went up because prior when a table was locked, it would put the next query into a queue, this is fine provided the queue length doesn't blow out, like it started to. In short, we were limited by locking, which throttled throughput.Once we switched to row level locking, there is no longer (much) lock contention, and as such all these requests now can run concurrently, so this increases our throughput, people get faster response, etc... This explains the jump in queries per second. I also went through and added some indexes to fix some slow queries, SMF developers don't seem to understand the importance of them, this is not the first time I have had to fix queries.But then we hit I/O issues as we had also increased our IOPS, so instead of seeing as many 502's due to PHP being too busy, we were seeing more slower responses due to the now much increased IO load, which in turn affects the entire server, not just DB requests. Most people throw a SSD in to resolve this, but it is unwarranted in most cases and at best a SSD is a temporary fix. The usually better solution is to throw a bit more ram at the server and cache the indexes and entire working data set, since RAM is orders of a magnitude faster then a SSD, and once the server has warmed up (data is in RAM), it barely touches the disk except for updates/inserts.Finally since we have more RAM then we expected, I thew some extra to Memcached.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 12:38:25 pm
content: I hadn't really noticed it being slower than normal, and just had a bunch of 502's but that was during the time gnif said it was rebuilding the database after the previous changes - that went away.But wow - compared to yesterday, it is flying now. Incredibly smooth and responsive clicking on messages and going through pages.More RAM, more gooder.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 01:33:49 pm
content: Yes - buttery smooth today

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 01:51:28 pm
content: Very noticeable improvement!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:32:18 pm
content: Page loading is different: slight delay and than faster loading.. All in all a bit better.. But biggest difference is when replying.. Posting goes much faster....

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 10:19:11 pm
content: Serious improvement from the sticks of Indiana as well, big thanks to gnif/Dave.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 10:26:20 pm
content: Bighere too.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 11:24:50 pm
content: Are you serving pages on ipv6 yet?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 01:57:34 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on March 28, 2017, 11:24:50 pmUnfortunately not, sadly IPv6 has not been widely deployed by data centers.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 03:27:11 am
content: The forum is seriously slick from my lab too. So both using the new fixed IP trial setting, and without.That RAM really did the trick.BTW, I still don't know what it's going to cost me.The head of marketing at HostGator (who is a fan BTW) said they'll sort it out after I complained about the ludicrous price that would have cost an extra $240/month to go from the 8GB we had to 32GB we have now. PER MONTH!

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 08:31:03 am
content: My hosting provider, 1and1, has full dedicated servers with 32 GB RAM, 12 cores x 2.3 GHz and 2 TB RAID 1 harddisk for $200 per month. Just in case you need some arguments for HostGator

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:09:52 am
content: Isn't that the point where you send off ram sticks in the post ?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 09:55:29 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on March 29, 2017, 08:31:03 amI am paying $130 for E3-1245, 32GB RAM and 2x 480GB SSD... and that is in Australia! Why are HG so expensive?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:11:18 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on March 29, 2017, 09:55:29 pmBecause, reasons...

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:20:18 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2017, 10:11:18 pmI fully know why you use HG, and I support your position on this, just seems odd that they want so much for extra RAM. I have many client's hosted with WebNX in the US, dealings with WebNX have always been prompt, support has always been excellent, etc. We just upgraded a server from 64GB to 128GB of ECC RAM, and it cost an extra $40US per month. I get that HG have a custom hosting infrastructure and offering, the VM setup makes that very clear, but this setup should reduce their running costs, not push them up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:23:24 pm
content: If I was to move hosts again then I wouldn't choose a US based one. Simple reason, DMCA.I'd like to use an Australian host, just because, but given that 95% of my audience is elsewhere in the world, I figure that's not the best option.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:27:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2017, 10:23:24 pmAh yeah, I forgot about that fiasco. The issue is that most visitors to this website are US based, the performance is crazy for them with this new setup. It is great for us too, but we see 200-300ms of latency on the initial connection. If you were to go elsewhere I would suggest AU simply to make management a better experience, but I am biased from this point of view. I certainly would not consider any of the EU hosting offerings, the latency to EU from AU is terrible, exceeding 350-400ms. Hosting in China we get decent latency, around 200ms, but support isn't always great.You could always host in Canada, for the US the latency is still great, for us it is about the same, but I don't know if the DMCA applies there.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:54:31 pm
content: Have you considered OVH?Their pricing is pretty competitive. (if you're in Canada, their pricing actually crushes everyone else due to the exchange rate now.)

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:57:44 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on March 29, 2017, 10:54:31 pmI have used OVH in Canada for quite some time, pros are costing and the scale of their network, etc... Cons, support is terrible, takes days often weeks to get an issue resolved. Most of their staff doesn't speak English, so the website auto-translates your tickets to French, which loses a lot. And you get what you pay for, they do not allow you to alter a host after the fact (ie, add RAM or a HDD).They have just started offering hosting in AU which I have a test server with, so far this seems much better support wise then the CA support, but I suspect this is because the service is still considered experimental.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 11:38:42 pm
content: you do get what you for with OVH though. (cheapest product = cheapest support, since you can't counterfeit hardware)they're leagues cheaper than anyone else though.if you want to customize and evolve over time, colo is really much better.I don't have a lot of experience with hosting, but the dozen or so odd providers I've used that do allow upgrades charge silly monthly price increases for hardware upgrades. If all you want is data transfer, they'll do that for a good price, no problemo but want a single 4GB stick of ram? - that'll be 4$ a month + 30$ installation fee with no option to just outright buy one for them.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 12:20:14 am
content: Quote from: Fsck on March 29, 2017, 11:38:42 pmThe problem with collocation is that you now have to support the hardware and have spares on hand, possibly even rent some storage. If you need hands on you pay $100p/h on average. Since the server would not be local, Dave would have to pay for hands on, shipping parts, etc. In the end it is best to keep it simple and rent it. $4 + $30 install is extremely cheap compared with what HG are charging/gouging for.Also if you had to pay for hands on, that's $100 + say $80-100 for the RAM, lets say $200. Where renting it at $4p/m, would take 50 months (4.16 years) to cost the same (not inc the install fee). Colo only makes sense if you are physically close to the DC to support your gear.

author: cw360
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 06:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2017, 03:27:11 amGentlemen,That guy is me..... At this point I should probably put on the body armor.... Outing yourself as a HostGator employee is typically seen as a risky move.Dave is correct, I am a fan. I have been watching for years. I am a Marketing guy who plays with electronics on the weekends (arduino, raspberry pi, ham radio, 3d printing). But I should emphasize, much more Marketing than Engineering. The show and the forum have really helped me out with many personal projects. So a much delayed thank you to all of you.Anyway, I am willing to field questions if you have them. If you throw anything too technical at me, it may take me a bit to find the answer or make sure it’s something we can actually share publicly.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 06:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: cw360 on March 30, 2017, 06:17:55 pmHi, nice to see you on hereI can say personally that I get a ton of use out of the website, videos and forum like yourself, and it is what drew me to offer my services as a way to give back. The questions I would like to ask I do not feel is my right to do so, as they are cost related and I will not be so bold to presume to think that Dave would like to see it discussed openly here.From a technical POV we are pretty well informed and up to speed on how the HG hosting is setup, and I have spent many many hours tuning the server to run on your systems as optimal as possible. Our latest round of updates, both server side software changes and the memory increase have made an enormous difference. So I will make the same offer in return, if HG are interested in how we have this forum responding so well on this setup, please ask away, but note that some details are trade secrets.

author: cw360
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 07:26:55 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on March 30, 2017, 06:55:26 pmWhew, so far so good. Don't have to go into hiding yet.....Glad you guys are here for Dave. I have been surprised when large youtubers/social media people (even corporate backed) have signed up for basic hosting (without talking to us) and then get surprised when their audience crushes a shared box. Speaks volumes about this community and Dave's foresight. Granted he is a born engineer turned social media guy, not original social media.Re: your question: we took care of it.Just throwing this out there. If you are ever interested in writing up a list of pro-tips, we are always looking for great guest posts on our blog. Would love to do a case study. Great way of getting some SEO love for the community. Not that this forum needs it in the slightest.BTW, this thing is wicked fast.I love/hate it when customers are faster than we are. lolAnother thing... Any thought to putting an SSL on here? We could probably make that happen......

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:22:29 pm
content: @cw360,Do you have ipv6 at your site..

author: cw360
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:47:47 pm
content: @mrpacketheadHopefully I did that mention correctly. Had to go talk to the network guys about this one. They are actively educating me on data center architecture. Unfortunately, the official/short answer is: currently no.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 12:49:47 am
content: Quote from: cw360 on March 30, 2017, 06:17:55 pmBig thanks.FYI to all, HostGator came to the party and massively dropped the rates for the server with the new RAMGiven how well the new server is now running, and the new low pricing, I'll be sticking with Hostgator.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 12:53:34 am
content: Quote from: cw360 on March 30, 2017, 07:26:55 pmThat's been discussed many times on here.I'm sure gnif can fill you in the tech details as he has investigated this extensively I believe.I would like to, as a lot of people have asked for it, but I believe there are some technical hurdles to overcome.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 03:10:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 31, 2017, 12:53:34 amThe technical hurdles are no longer much of an issue anymore, the concern was always with performance. We have three options here1) use CloudFlare for SSL, but that means we must proxy through them.2) use letsencrypt.org for a free SSL cert, this involves a little bit of setup on the server to renew the cert before it expires as these have a 3 month expiry.3) purchase a SSL certificate

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 03:22:07 am
content: Quote from: gnif on March 31, 2017, 03:10:52 amInteresting service. It is not much of a problem for this forum, but such a service sounds like the perfect way for the NSA or other 3 letter agencies to get private SSL keys.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 03:23:16 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on March 31, 2017, 03:22:07 amThe private key never leaves the server, its a proper CA just has an API to perform automated renewals.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 03:25:14 am
content: Late to the response, but the upgrade has really been noticeable here from a satellite connection. A few bumps during the transition, but extremely responsive by comparison. Thanks to all who worked on it, and a big thank you to HostGator for making it affordable for Dave.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 03:32:02 am
content: No error messages for days - Yay!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:46:09 am
content: Quote from: gnif on March 31, 2017, 03:10:52 amSo if we chose to do that and we disable Cloudflare then the website revokes back to http only?QuoteWhich type do we need?http://support.hostgator.com/articles/ssl-certificates/acquire-ssl/how-do-i-purchase-an-ssl-and-what-type-is-it

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:49:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 31, 2017, 04:46:09 amOnly if we do not install a cert on the server.Quote from: EEVblog on March 31, 2017, 04:46:09 amFor this website since there is no real sensitive information, the cheapest option. You do not need to use HG for this, any certificate authority is fine, personally I have used RapidSSL, and AlphaSSL, but I believe there are better/cheaper options today. To be completely honest though if it was me I would just go for the letsencrypt.org service, it is if anything more secure then a generic SSL cert from other providers as it renews every 3 months, and the setup is quite simple on the server.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:50:53 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on March 31, 2017, 03:22:07 amLetsEncrypt went through a long period of public security auditing before they offered their service, so it is one of the more secure SSL solutions. It is done properly.There are many hosting companies that support LetsEncrypt, and they will automatically renew every 3 months - so all you have to do is request a free SSL cert in the CPanel, and you have a certificate that will automatically renew for as long as you want.Most CPanel hosts now let you enter your own key, so I have 3 LetsEncrypt certs I generate every 3 months (single batch file to update all three), and then I manually add the new keys to tye Cpanels.For companies, I have always just got a commercial one - RapidSSL is something like A$12 a year if you buy from the right reseller.Digicert is used by the likes of Facebook, so it is not a bad choice for companies.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:51:54 am
content: Quote from: amspire on March 31, 2017, 04:50:53 amcPanel is not an option here for the renewal process, this server while runs cPanel is not using it for hosting, it's too slow. This is not an issue though as I can setup some custom scripts to handle the renewal.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:53:15 am
content: Quote from: gnif on March 31, 2017, 04:49:25 amI like the idea of a new certificate every few months from a "why not" point of view.How much work is involved in setting this up?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:53:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 31, 2017, 04:53:15 amAbout 1/2 hour, nothing huge.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:55:56 am
content: Quote from: gnif on March 31, 2017, 04:53:53 amMake it so when you have some free time!I can add the SSL certificate to Cloudflare I believe if that's required.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 04:57:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 31, 2017, 04:55:56 amGreat, I will later today. In the CF configuration you just tell it to use "Strict" mode, then it enforces the SSL cert your server produces is valid.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 05:11:04 am
content: Quote from: gnif on March 31, 2017, 04:57:25 amGreat, thanks.Should start a new thread for this to report issues and discuss. Many nerds may rejoice.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 05:15:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 31, 2017, 04:53:15 amThe 3 month expiry is a great idea. If someone hacks your site and gets the keys to your commercial 2+ year SSL certificate, they can pretend to be you. You can revoke the certificate, but it is up to the browsers to check to see if certificates are revoked or not. As far as I know, Chrome does not actually check for revoked certs. They have their own system that can accept some revoked certificates.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 01:40:58 pm
content: I'm pretty sure Chrome blocks if the cert is revoked just like other browsers. Just had a customer attempt to replace their SHA-1 certs with SHA-256 and didn't realize that once he requests the existing cert to be re-keyed it revokes the old version of it, and attempting to access the site using this cert with Chrome resulted in a revocation error until it was replaced. Prior to rekeying, the error in Chrome was the one that since it was SHA-1 it wasn't actually secure.

author: jippie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 10:37:52 pm
content: Seems the forum is no longer sending HTTP_REFERER, which broke my dynamic avatarStopped working probably somewhere between:31/Mar/2017:13:03:04 +0200and31/Mar/2017:14:24:58 +0200

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 11:05:08 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on March 31, 2017, 01:40:58 pmLast I heard, Google had decided not to let browsers check if a cert was revoked, but instead Google runs its own in-house tracking of revoked certs, and somehow Chrome uses this Google service. They did have an optional setting to re-enable revoke cert checking in Chrome, but that seems to have disappeared. This solution often works but not all the time. Google's cert database may be much faster, but it is not necessarily comprehensive or up-to-date.If Google has gone back to allowing Chrome to directly check for revoked certs, it would be interesting to know.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 12:47:44 am
content: Big jump in the number of forum sessions:

author: cw360
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 12:53:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 05, 2017, 12:47:44 amWow. This new traffic from somewhere? Google? I know they like SSLs.....What do the source reports say?If it's direct/eevblog.com there might be a self refer issue in the analytics.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 04:01:54 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 05, 2017, 12:47:44 amThere's been some crazy #'s viewing GK's thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/oscilloscope-pong-for-1-or-2-players/

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 06:39:17 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on April 05, 2017, 01:10:39 amThis coincides with fixing the 502 errors, I suspect CF has been serving tons of cached requests to try to work around the issue, we saw this jump before we turned on SSL.

author: dimkasta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 02:19:18 pm
content: I have letsencrypt on a couple of small sites for testing. I have no issues with it yet. Through cpanel, or using Laravel's homestead/forge.You might want to check Taylor Otwell's scripts if you don't want to write them yourself. I think they are available with homestead.Also, keep an eye on their newsletter. They recently changed their services, and caused disruption on certificate updates for many sites that did not update their scripts in time.About cloudflare, keep an eye on your webmaster tools too. you might have to fiddle with seo settings or sitemap creation.Google deindexed all images when we switched to https on one of our sites (without any obvious seo problems)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2017, 12:24:30 am
content: Short period of forum outages that lasted only a minute or two @~12.20 NZ time.522 error.

author: dimkasta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2017, 01:06:46 am
content: Same here

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2017, 03:48:19 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 06, 2017, 12:24:30 amThanks,522 is a CloudFlare error, it is when CF can not establish a connection to the server, there has been no server faults or reported network outages on our end, I would guess that there was a temporary down route somewhere between CF and the server.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:09:29 am
content: Gotta say how good the forum's been lately....just brilliant.Not an error at all for weeks, just perfect.Thanks Dave for putting your hand in your pocket and gnif for the grafting and tweaks.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:49:18 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 29, 2017, 12:09:29 amThanks mate, I am glad to hear it

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:56:03 am
content: Quote from: gnif on April 29, 2017, 12:49:18 amThought I'd mention it as we all have a bitch quick enough when things aren't going right but we're often a bit slow to commend your efforts after all is well. Been meaning to say something for a few days but you know how it gets sometimes..............

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 01:03:36 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 29, 2017, 12:09:29 amI originally did put my hand in my pocket, but then full credit to HostGator who really came to the party and are now offering me the improved server for like half what I was paying beforeAnd yes, as always a huge thanks to gnif who spends a lot of time tweaking and maintaing the server for freeBTW, I did get a 502 yesterday for like 30 seconds.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 01:13:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 29, 2017, 01:03:36 amNo problem mate, do you recall roughly what time it occurred at?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 01:24:08 am
content: Quote from: gnif on April 29, 2017, 01:13:17 amYesterday afternoon some time.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 01:45:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 29, 2017, 01:24:08 amStrange, I only see two errors for any of your IPs over the last two weeks, both ofwhich are some bug in Sendy (see below, heavily redacted for security).error.log-20170420.gz:2017/04/19 15:07:21  24952#0: *59443517 FastCGI sent in stderr: "PHP message: PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started atredacted) inredactedon lineredacted" while reading upstream, client:redacted, server:redacted, request: "GETredactedHTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:redacted", host: "redacted", referrer: "redacted"error.log-20170421.gz:2017/04/20 19:32:25  24953#0: *62660078 FastCGI sent in stderr: "PHP message: PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started atredacted) inredacted: eval()'d code on lineredacted" while reading upstream, client:redacted, server:redacted, request: "GETredactedHTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:redacted", host: "redacted", referrer: "redacted"Both of which are just header warnings, neither of which would have thrown a 502 error.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 06:52:45 am
content: Glitch in the matrix

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 08:12:00 am
content: Yes it is working fine now, no more endless waiting for page loads and no more load errors.I noticed something weird though, probably a forum software glitch? It's the "Local time" in the profiles.For instance at the moment Gnif's profile says "Local Time:30 April 2017, 05:08:36" and for Dave it says "Local Time:29 April 2017, 18:10:23"I'm sure you guys are not that far apart

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 08:20:45 am
content: Seems Nusa read wraper's mind.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/use-240v-household-type-mcbs-in-low-voltage-circuit/msg0/?topicseen#new

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 09:00:47 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on April 29, 2017, 08:41:49 amYes I know, and I guessed almost everyone sets this to have the post times correct, but if I check the local time about 3/4 is incorrect. Maybe they just don't care?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:51:32 pm
content: Hah, I had not even noticed, I just corrected it! I set it to +11 out of habit without even thinking that the server's timezone is AEST already. Servers I manage generally run on UTC.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:53:11 pm
content: ... and here was me thinking you were that far ahead of the game.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 02:49:25 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on April 30, 2017, 01:19:10 amTimestamps will all actually be stored in Unix time. Everything is actually in UTC (..close enough, anyway) - it just applies an offset for display.It does cause everyone not in the same timezone to need to change their timezone four times a year on the forum, however, as SMF is, well, Simple.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 02:50:53 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 30, 2017, 02:49:25 amI wonder how hard it will be to patch SMF to just do it properly... when I get a little time I will investigate.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 02:56:37 am
content: Quote from: gnif on April 30, 2017, 02:50:53 amThat'd be nice.A little brief searching suggests they've never implemented it because they don't like 'too many options' (okay, therearea lot of timezones, but SMF is presently as dumb as my microwave..).

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 02:57:33 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 30, 2017, 02:56:37 amIt should be simple, they have already implemented the time offset stuff, clearly they are using the 'date' function everywhere instead of the 'gmdate' function.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 03:02:41 am
content: Running Win 7 and time linked tosomeonline clock gives zero problems for NZ daylight saving times.Once you've got your offset from the forum default sorted and set, it works without issue.... does here anyway.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 03:05:33 am
content: Quote from: gnif on April 30, 2017, 02:57:33 amThe issue appears to be with presenting the full range of options - if you just do a drop-down menu there are 561 options (and 385 unique zones, lots of links) in the tz database. Even cut down it's a long list. Some sort of graphical picker helps there, but requires more work to implement.Personally I'd be happy with a box and instructions to locate the correct zone.Quote from: tautech on April 30, 2017, 03:02:41 amDST start/end dates around the world do not align. I get to change it four times a year. This is boring.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 03:12:01 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 30, 2017, 03:05:33 amYeah I get that and used to get the same, that's why I mentioned linking of your PC clock to an online source AND having the correct timezone and country set on your PC too. (didn't mention that before.)Never need to adjust mine for the forums I frequent, the PC just sorts it for me.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 03:19:05 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 30, 2017, 03:12:01 amMy clocks are accurate. That does not stop the apparent server time changing.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 04:49:56 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 30, 2017, 03:19:05 amGotcha now.Not seen that, it would piss me off too.Is it really a SMF issue ? Or something else ?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 05:39:31 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 30, 2017, 04:49:56 amYeah, SMF is reporting the time in the server's timezone, it wouldn't be an issue if the client base was primarily in one area, as most forum user bases are. PHP provides two methods of dealing with the time, 'date' and 'gmdate', where date applies the server's timezone to the date, and gmdate is GMT. This is very common with open source projects like SMF, most programmers hate dealing with timezones due to how crappy they are, things like DST make it an absolute PITA to get it right.Until you actually start to code time stuff, you don't (well at least I didn't) realize how involved it is, especially when you start to have to handle leap seconds, thankfully the kernel/os/PHP hides most of this from the dev, but it's can still be confusing. I find it is best to store times as UTC timestamps, then apply any offsets required when presenting the information, that way it never matters what the server or application's timezone is configured for.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 09:49:25 am
content: Time quickly gets very complex.If they're indeed simply using the 'wrong' function to print the time, at least switching to gmdate would restore DST changes to the usual twice a year. Still like to see timezone selection, though.E: Seems to me the quickest solution is just to go into the admin panel and set the timezone to UTC where it belongs. Pretty sure that was shot down by Dave last time I raised it as he doesn't want to have to set his offset for DST..

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 12:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 30, 2017, 09:49:25 amThe server's logging, monitoring and other services are all relying on dates that are stored in the local timezone, while it is a quick setting to change, it will affect much more across the server and is too late to change it. If it is done the server's time to a ton of things, including the stats and backup systems will appear to jump back in time 10 hours, which will mess things up in a large way.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 12:27:28 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on April 30, 2017, 12:03:24 pmNot on the server - on the forum. There is, according to the source at least (it's been a while since I ran SMF), a timezone setting on the forum. This may be something you can adjust without affecting much.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 02:45:29 pm
content: The SMF timezone is set to Sydney, always has been.Any changes to any of this I'll leave up to gnif.