Tariffs via UPS - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 09:56:49 pm
content: I got a package from China via UPS. Then a week later got a bill in the mail from UPS for the Tariff + disbursement fee.On a $102.37 package (including shipping) there were 4 charges. Three were tariffs (10%, 25% and 3.5%) plus a $14 disbursement fee.Any suggestions on how to avoid the $14 disbursement fee in the future?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:16:17 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on March 17, 2025, 09:56:49 pmOrder from a company which can pre-pay the VAT / import charges when you order the product. Look for DDP (delivery duties paid). Works like a charm when ordering things into the EU but I don't know whether the US has a similar system in place.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:19:03 pm
content: With the tariffs, we are now all navigating uncharted waters.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 01:09:16 am
content: If you can't do DDP then you need to self clear, which is a pain in the ass, not worth it for $14. I don't know the process in USA, I assume its similar to canada where you tell the shipping company you will clear the package, and you deal with the paperwork and send it to them.I believe someone mentioned Fedex has reduced or no fees if you have an account they can bill directly to, might be worth investigating.https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/internet-purchases

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 03:17:53 am
content: I've been using DHL for international shipping this year since the tariff stuff started and I haven't seen any new charges, apart from the normally higher DHL fees which actually don't seem to be much higher than before the tariff stuff. Of all the shipping options, if I want to not worry about it, DHL wins.This was a couple years ago, but FedEx did that "send you a bill a week after you get the thing" thing. I was not happy about that.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 03:24:01 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on March 17, 2025, 10:19:03 pmNo, these waters are well charted but many in the US haven't travelled them. The issue is that couriers like UPS and DHL just live for the chance to screw you with excessive fees for custom clearances, tariffs, anything they can think of. The US "system" is probably going to be complete chaos and mayhem for the foreseeable future and these clowns are going to be gleefully cashing in.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 03:39:20 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 18, 2025, 03:24:01 amSeems about right, in keeping with the rest of the country these days.

author: b177
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 06:09:27 pm
content: That is what I've been paying for china -> us with UPS from JLCPCB. $14 broker fee on top of the tarriffs (~40% of total invoice including the freight). Duty *usually* only on shipments valued under $800. I know the $800 exemption might change, but haven't seen it yet. UPS usually sends me an email 1-2 days before delivery and I pay with credit card on their website (payment link in the email).Oddly, a recent shipment (well over $800) was $14 broker fee and only ~3% duty. Same HTS code and description as prior shipments that were charged 40%.The $14 broker fee to UPS is peanuts compared to finding a 3rd party. But less oversight into the HTS code and duty. I think a 3rd party only makes sense if you need to have greater control/assurance that the %duty is correct, like if you are important a product with an exemption.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 07:31:34 pm
content: You can avoid the administrative fee when it is ddp shipped, but this can be complicated for you right now.If you are a business, you can also pay these directly to customs using the commercial invoice, however the amount of effort is probably not worth the 15$

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 02:41:09 am
content: One thing I haven't tried to do this year is buy REALLY inexpensive boards with the cheapest shipping.Well I just started that experiment from JLCPCB. 5 boards for $2.28 with $1.72 "Global Standard Direct Line" shipping for a total order of $4.No idea what to expect, but they just "shipped" so we will see soon.

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 05:03:26 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on March 22, 2025, 02:41:09 amDo please keep us updated.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 04:29:05 am
content: I also just ran a batch of PCBs through JLCPCB. Literally took 3 days from pushing the button to delivered - Mar 19 to Mar 22. I'm on a trip so they are waiting for me at home. I also did a PCBA same day and it has already shipped. I expect Tuesday or Weds so 5 or 6 days. It will probably take a week to get the tariff bill report in snail mail. Wish they could email it

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:12:43 am
content: Is with tarrifs still cheaper than locally?

author: newto
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 03:13:42 pm
content: UPS is especially egregious when it comes to tariffs and their brokerage fees.In Canada you can self clear packages at a CBSA office (generally at airports), which lets you get the package without having to pay the added fees. Not sure if that's an option in other countries though.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 08:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on March 17, 2025, 09:56:49 pmEmigrate to some other country.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:01:03 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on March 24, 2025, 08:45:46 pmYou think the exact same thing isn't going to happen here?If you order with UPS shipping without DPP they are going to charge you similar fees, except our VAT is higher. And then they apply VAT to the shipping and processing fee as well.The only way is regulation, governments need to force companies that they have to charge a fair, flat fee for import processing. It's all automated anyway. And every company has to charge the same amount.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 24, 2025, 11:01:03 pmAgree, a cap of around $5-10 if you prepay online before delivery, or auto bill to an account.The additional costs do come in to play if the shipping company has to: send out letters, collect payment at the door, etc. I think its fair if they want to charge some more for that but the default should be minimal and fully automated.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 09:13:23 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on March 24, 2025, 08:45:46 pmSuch a helpful guy

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 08:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 24, 2025, 11:01:03 pmJust abolish VAT. Will work much better.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 08:40:28 am
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 26, 2025, 08:39:23 pmSure and then we'll just have you personally maintaining our roads.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 08:51:18 am
content: Someone told me that if you have a UPS account, you don't get charged the handling fees - this may vary by country so YMMV

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 09:00:12 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 27, 2025, 08:40:28 amPlenty of options for maintaining the roads!https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/paving-pizza-dominos-helps-repair-potholes-burbank

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 07:31:23 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 27, 2025, 08:40:28 amI don't know about that. Just south of border here, in Montana, they have zero sales tax. Their roads are fine.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 09:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 27, 2025, 07:31:23 pmThey have 1.35% property tax, here it's 0.057%. It might surprise you, but governments cost money.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 10:26:52 pm
content: US States vary widely in their amounts for property, sales, income, fuel, and miscellaneous taxes.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 10:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: Rat_Patrol on March 22, 2025, 05:03:26 amBoards just arrived. Delivered by the usual "Global Standard Direct" guys UniUni. Pretty standard 7 days in transit.No extra unexpected charges or bills... yet.. Looks like business as usual.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 11:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on March 27, 2025, 10:52:52 pmDid that shipment qualify for "de minimis" ?https://www.trade.gov/de-minimis-valueThere may be changes on this topic as American tariff policy changes in the near future.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 12:19:37 am
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 27, 2025, 07:31:23 pmMontana is a parasite state that relies on federal highway funds to maintain the interstates.In the Montana town where I live, the city streets are very poorly maintained. The city would like to impose a local sales tax, in part to improve street maintenance, but the legislature has never allowed it.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 12:49:40 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on March 27, 2025, 11:21:39 pmWho knows exactly what is in effect at any given moment anymore, but I thought they got rid of all the de minimis exemptions. At least they were talking about that for a while. Either way I'm glad my $4 boards didn't turn into $54 boards.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 12:54:47 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on March 28, 2025, 12:49:40 amIt was extended indefinitely:https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/china-de-minimis-exemption-returns-trump-tariffs/739591/

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 03:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 27, 2025, 09:51:37 pmSure. But they charge too much money for too little services. You don't like when UPS do that, but you don't mind the government doing the same thing.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 04:03:39 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on March 27, 2025, 11:21:39 pmI often use "Global Standard Direct" to Canada. If you order 5 boards, it's always $1.50, even for 4 layer boards with custom colors, ENIG, impedance control and other features the price is still $1.50. But if the order cost is higher they add "Tax" - roughly 12%. I asked what is the nature of this tax, but they couldn't answer. They may do the same when shipped to the US.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 04:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 28, 2025, 03:49:07 pmYou are barking up the wrong tree, because I agree with you.But I'm also not really ready to throw every single societal agreement just yet over an occasional fee. Just have DOGE in Europe and then we can talk about how much taxation is necessary. Also this is way off topic, we don't have to turn every discussion into politics.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 09:10:04 pm
content: This thread has gotten off track. Sticking to the tariff issue(s):- de minimis exceptionISgone. I got hit with 38.5% via UPS on a $100ish USD order. They billed me after the fact (a week later it seems).- UniUni is a service from Aliexpress. I got a recent order from them with no additional cost. Not sure if they are absorbing the tariff or ignoring it.- I have heard that USPS is not enforcing the Tariff but will find out soon, I deliberately had one JLCPCB order ship via a service that uses USPS for the last mile.- Tariffs and VAT/Sales Taxes are two different things. Their net effect is the same but they come into effect based on different criteria. No matter how a state/country gathers revenue, we need to keep essential services and infrastructure up and running. I have no problem paying for that. I have a problem paying for tariffs that are completely ineffective in fixing trade imbalances. And I really have a problem when those kool-aid drinkers claim that the tariffs don't get passed through to the customer.- Tariffs don't pay for local infrastructure. There is no mechanism to distribute them to the States.- US Tariffs are still in a state of flux. I just don't understand how someone who is "great" at business can possibly justify this utter chaos and uncertainty. Investor don't like it (stock market is still dropping) and consumer sentiment is way down. They certainly are moving fast and breaking things.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 09:50:25 pm
content: QuoteNearly as bad as the idiots who claim the tariffs are paid by the exporting country, i mean what sort of moron would believe that?

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 09:56:22 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on March 29, 2025, 09:50:25 pmThat's what I was referring to. What kind of moron? First class, I'd say.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 09:58:49 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on March 29, 2025, 09:50:25 pmExport tariffs (to discourage exports) exist, but they are rare.If you repeat the mantra that import tariffs are paid by the wicked foreigner, some people will believe you.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 09:09:32 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on March 29, 2025, 09:10:04 pmIt was on and off, so maybe you just got caught at the wrong time or had a total daily amount of greater than $800?Some notes from the shipping company I use:Quote

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 09:30:45 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on March 29, 2025, 09:10:04 pmAre you perhaps confusing brokerage and other fees with tariff.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:39:15 am
content: Quote from: Bud on March 31, 2025, 09:30:45 pmNope. Brokerage fee was $14. They specifically itemized 10% (base tariff), 25% (additional Trump tariff) and 3.5% (relay tariff). The last one was a surprise - guess it is because I have the word relay silk-screened on the PCB.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:45:12 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 31, 2025, 09:09:32 pmYes, the exemption was removed, then reinstated, then removed again. I don't know the dates but I believe that currently the exemption has been removed. I have two more items coming to me, we shall see. I expect the chaos of this last month will linger for a while but he's still yelling about tariffs so it may get worse. The light at the end of the tunnel could just be a train...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 10:04:56 pm
content: Exemption is still in place for every COO other than china, starting May 2, with intent to eventually eliminate it.Quote

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 04:09:15 am
content: We were talking about China.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 05:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on March 27, 2025, 10:26:52 pmAnd in the efficiency at which collected taxes are spent.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 05:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on April 06, 2025, 05:31:02 pmActually, close to 100% of collected taxes are spent.(In theory, US States must have balanced budgets, with no deficits.)As anywhere, the collective wisdom of citizens and legislators is not uniform over the large area of the entire country.You might find the analysis of "balance of payments" (taxes to the Federal government, vs. Federal payments to the State) state-by-state, comparing with political orientation of the States, interesting.(Latest data I could find, 2022):https://rockinst.org/issue-areas/fiscal-analysis/balance-of-payments-portal/

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 06:29:34 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 06, 2025, 05:33:34 pmWell. No one is questioning that.Perhaps a better word is efficacy.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 09:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on April 06, 2025, 06:29:34 pmSadly, some states do not invest enough in the future. Education is often a low priority.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 09:56:02 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on April 06, 2025, 09:26:25 pmIve got a 1.2 billion dollar a mile tunnel to build...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 09:23:36 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on April 06, 2025, 04:09:15 amYes which is why I bolded the part where it starts May 2 for china, it is not in effect yet.If goods arrive on May 2nd you might be hit.

author: pac1085
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 05:59:18 pm
content: I'm trying to figure this out myself. I have a package coming from Germany valued at $1000 USD (Roetest vacuum tube tester, can't wait!). It says "Duties or taxes are due on this package." in the tracking info. However there is no way to pay it when logged into myUPS. I called and was told the import duties are $46.71. However they then attempted to transfer me to another dept, who had me on hold forever so I eventually hung up. I wonder if they will just deliver and send me the bill??

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:00:51 pm
content: Quote from: pac1085 on April 25, 2025, 05:59:18 pmNormally there should be a link on the tracking page that says "pay duties":https://support.spaceshipapp.com/en/how-to-do-online-duty-tax-with-upsIf not they will try to collect on delivery (credit card), if you aren't there then it will likely get left at the local UPS store. In general UPS and DHL want the payment upfront, Fedex bills you later.

author: pac1085
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2025, 12:03:00 am
content: Thanks, I guess we'll see what happens. Maybe it's too soon for the button to show up because it's definitely not there. Perhaps its too early, it's not scheduled for delivery until Tuesday.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 04:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: pac1085 on April 25, 2025, 05:59:18 pmThere seems to be a lot of confusion among the carriers so my experience may be random but I used paypal and they (UPS) dinged my Paypal account directly. I'm not sure how they had the right to do that but I prefer paying out of Paypal account so alls well that ends well. $14 processing fee is pretty annoying.

author: pac1085
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 12:08:25 am
content: The package came today. When the delivery driver showed up they said I had to write them a personal check for $46.71. There was never any option to pay online and they don’t take credit cards. Driver had to wait for a few mins while I went in and dug up a check book. Haven’t written one in years. I also did not receive any sort of breakdown on what the fees were.Btw, the declared value was 746 euro.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 12:47:01 am
content: Quote from: pac1085 on April 29, 2025, 12:08:25 amThat is interesting must be regional, couriers only accept cards here, as no one uses checks and writing a fake check is simple.

author: pac1085
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 11:57:06 am
content: Yeah… I am in western New York. I was surprised…

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 08:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: pac1085 on April 29, 2025, 12:08:25 amToo bad you weren't able to get it a little cheaper as you could have snuck under the de minimis exception. 746 EUR = about 850 USD. Of course, after May 2, it's all moot. Or not? Who knows with this blowhard idiot...The international delivery companies are going to have to get their shit together on this. Paying by check is ridiculous. I bet the drivers absolutely hate that. It should be all electronic.

author: Fflint
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 09:07:19 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 24, 2025, 11:01:03 pmWell in the EU there is VOSS (VAT one stop shop) where a seller can register in EU and for buyers it is pretty much the same thing as buying locally. When I buy on Aliexpress it is showing me the prices that include my Polish VAT (23% ouch...)I remember the time before this was in place, it worked exactly as described. Big shipping companies like dpd, ups, FedEx would gouge you €10+ for "filling the paperwork" for you. But you still had to get in touch with customs and supply them with proof of value and/or a description of what is it you're shipping if you didn't want your package sitting for 3 weeks in the back of the queue. If you emailed them on the day they got your package they would release it in one or two days.The "handling" is a lot cheaper if your package is shipped by the post office (€2.5 or so).As for people who think EU has "tarrifs" for stuff imported from the US. I used to buy lots of stuff from the US when shipping wasn't as horribly expensive as it is now. And every single thing I looked up had a tariff of 0%. I bought electronics, tools, hand tools, gun parts, ammo reloading supplies. The only thing I was hit with a 3% tariff was some agricultural pesticide I was buying at the time.VAT applies to everything here, not just imported stuff. The way it is constructed it is mostly charged to end users. Do I like paying 23% on top of everything ? Hell no? But it is responsible for over 50% of the entire country's budget and I'm fine with my 12.5% income tax rate (most people pay more).I wonder what the actual total cost of implementation of such complex tax as VAT is. For consumers it is simple. They pay the rate. But for businesses it is anything but simple (although a lot simpler now than some time ago).