Selling Used iPad Pro -- where/who? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 02:11:25 am
content: I have a two year old iPad Pro in excellent condition that I can't justify and am thinking about selling it. Where/who are reliable outfits that will buy it at a reasonable price without playing games? As a second question ... any pointers to the best methods for wiping the unit before selling?Brian

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 09:38:31 am
content: Make a price

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 10:18:33 am
content: There are a bunch of Applefanboysenthusiasts who will buy Apple products. You will have no issues selling it.As for data security, Apple have been using per-file encryption keys for a while,normally*1deleting the file is enough to prevent recovery by most users. My advice would be to manually delete all your personal data, applications etc... then leave it switched on for at least a week doing nothing. That will give plenty of time for TRIM and other background processes to do their thing.Some*2of the logs will also start to overwrite and purge themselves (Apple logs are an absolute treasure trove of information).If you want to be extra paranoid, fill the unallocated memory with garbage (copy a bunch of music or movies into the device, enough to fill whatever remaining space there is), before doing a factory reset (don't forget to unlink your Apple ID as well! Apple being Apple, a "factory reset" doesn't actually mean "factory reset").Note 1: I say "normally" because it is possible to recover deleted data from Apple devices under certain circumstances. However this requires in-depth knowledge of Apple IOS and some relatively specialised tools. Your average user stands no chance.Note 2: The exact science, timing and behaviour of the many, many log files present on Apple devices isn't fully known. Some purge themselves sooner than others, some not at all. A week is just a nice round figure I made up.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 10:33:11 am
content: Won't be a problem finding people who want it as long as your price is sensible (sensible being whatever someone is willing to pay)You'll need to log the device out and also remove it from your Apple account or the new buyer will not be able to activate it and use it on their Apple account.The logging out process removes all your data, I believe irretrievably and removing it from your Apple account means it is then 'factory fresh' and able to be connected to a new Apple ID.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 05:19:02 pm
content: If you want top dollar, sell it on ebay, popular items like that tend to attract plenty of attention. It's small and easy to ship too. Yes you have to give ebay a cut, but you're still likely to come out ahead.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 01:55:06 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on August 15, 2018, 02:11:25 amJust follow these instructions on Apple’s support page:What to do before you sell or give away your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touchIIRC, iOS uses per-file encryption AND whole-disk encryption. A factory reset throws away the keys, so that really is sufficient before reselling it.Quote from: CJay on August 15, 2018, 10:33:11 amNot really. You can sign out of iCloud and still keep most of the data locally. That’s why you do a full reset on it to wipe it clean.Quote from: Halcyon on August 15, 2018, 10:18:33 amOr just read theiOS security guideto learn exactly how it works.There’s absolutely no need to let the gadget run for a week to theoretically overwrite things. The encryption keys are gone after a reset, so it becomes random garbage.If one is paranoid, the only sensible step, after doing the full erase according to the Apple instructions, is to use iTunes to do a factory software restore on it.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 08:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 16, 2018, 01:55:06 pmI suppose all those years recovering data from Apple devices must have all been a figment of my imagination. I couldswearI did it just yesterday. My mind must be going. ;-)The iOS security guide gives a good overview (from Apple's perspective), but it won't talk about some of the limitations out there which are able to be leveraged by those wanting access to data. As I said, those basic steps are enough to prevent recovery bymostusers.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 07:58:38 pm
content: If your data was so valuable that whatever kind of recovery you do is worth the cost and effort, you a) wouldn’t the asking for advice on a forum that’s not even about mobile devices, and b) should probably just run the gadget through a shredder.For anyone else, following the normal instructions is more than enough.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 17, 2018, 07:58:38 pmTooki, you seem to be critical about a lot of things I post. I'm not sure why? You're quite clearly an Apple user. Do you perhaps down-play the fact that data can be recovered despite Apple's attempt at "security"?The entire point I try to make in this thread (and others) is that we ought to be more careful what we do with our data. Many people don't realise how valuable even seemingly mundane bits of data about them really is. We should be protecting and controlling our information as best we can because if we don't, one day, it might come back to bite us on the ass.The methods in which I described aren't onerous or time consuming, but will decrease the chances of anyone being able to recover private information from that device. Simply factory resetting a device is quite often not enough.He is thinking about selling his iPad and short of selling it to friends or family, he has no idea who he is selling it to or what they might do with it. Old devices sold on ebay etc... are usually a treasure trove of private information. You don't know if that iPad might land in the hands of someone who is phishing for your information. Private information is a very lucrative business. Sure the chances are slim that anything bad will happen but why take the chance? This whole "I have nothing to hide" mentality is stupid and needs to stop. Once information about you is out there in the wild, it's almost impossible to get it back.If it were me in the same situation, I wouldn't sell it at all. My old devices either sit in a box or get physically shredded.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 07:25:32 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amNot everybody is irrationally paranoid as you are. There are sensible precautions one should take, but no need to go over the top. Your data is just not likely to be that interesting and the chance of someone putting in the considerable effort to recover it is likely far lower than someone stealing the device from you with the data fully intact. There is plenty of low hanging fruit out there for data theft and just avoiding being that low hanging fruit is pretty effective. Most of us who buy used devices have absolutely no interest in whatever data they previously contained. I know whenever I get a used hard device the first thing I do is reset it to factory settings. When I get a used hard drive I format it. I'm more concerned about malicious stuff being on the device when I get it than my data getting out. The only time I worry about my data is with external services, it seems like every month or two there is another publicized breach and those are only the publicized ones.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 11:38:18 am
content: Quote from: james_s on August 18, 2018, 07:25:32 amHardly irrational or paranoid at all. Educated? Yes. Experienced? Absolutely. And yes, sensible precautions I'm all for, as described in my previous posts. While shredding might be "over the top" for the average home user, it's not for others. It all depends.Shall we let the OP decide what is best for them? We can all provide answers and suggestions but at the end of the day, the decision rests with the beholder of the data.Let's not discourage people from best practices.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amIt’s got nothing to do withyou. If I post a critical reply, it’s because I disagree with the content, as is the case here.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amYou dismiss security that the FBI has trouble cracking as “security” in quotation marks and wonder why I write you off as a crank?Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amAnd on the surface this sounds reasonable. But your post makes it sound as though recovering an erased iOS device is trivial, when in fact it’s at the level that even intelligence agencies find it difficult or impossible.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amIn many devices, that’s true. But is that really the case in a device where an “erase all data” erases the encryption keys?Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amIf they haven’t been properly erased. Erasing the keys on a hardware-encrypted data storage device is more than adequate for nearly all usage scenarios.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amNobody is suggesting “I have nothing to hide, ergo I don’t need to take any measures”. Don’t put words in our mouths.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 06:18:13 amWell that’s just stupid, unless you’re actually a government agent with secrets that enemies want from you.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 11:38:18 amOh, honey, no. It’s well into “irrational paranoia”.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 11:38:18 amWhat you suggest goes well beyond “sensible” precautions.Quote from: Halcyon on August 18, 2018, 11:38:18 amBut we should dissuade people from paranoia, which is what you are trying to instill.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 02:36:24 pm
content: Although it probably does not return the money you'd expect, there isApple Giveback, and then Apple will sell it asCertified Refurbished.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 03:35:19 pm
content: Just sell it second hand after a good scrub. Outfits and resellers will just eat a healthy slice of your pie. One of the benefits of buying Apple gear is that it tends to devalue little compared to other hardware. If you still have or can get a box for it that tends to increase the value.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pmAre you referring to well publicised case of the suicide bombers iPhone 5C? If so, that phone was successfully cracked using methods still being used today. The mechanism on how it was done is secret. The FBI didn't need Apple to get into the phone, what they wanted was Apple to modify IOS to enable certain back doors, which of course Apple refused.Breaking into phones is something that security and law enforcement agencies all around the world do every single day, not just for iPhone but for Android and Blackberry handsets too.Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pmForgive me if I don't go into specifics, not only am I not allowed to, but I wouldn't want it to be public knowledge. It's a constant game of cat and mouse between security researchers and phone manufacturers. They don't help us and we certainly don't reveal how we circumvent their security. They have a fair idea on how certain things are exploited but they can't "fix" everything as it will make their devices harder to use by the end-user. It's a fine balance between security and functionality.I also didn't say it was trivial (if you remember, I said most users won't be able to implement these kinds of tactics) but it is possible. What might be difficult to achieve today might be easy to do tomorrow.Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pmSure, as long as you can be confident that factory reset removes encryption keys for everything, not just user data or selected partitions.Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pmYou aren't wrong. As I said, most users won't be able to recover data from these sorts of devices. But as I also said, what might be difficult today, might not be tomorrow.Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pmI wasn't putting words in anyone's mouth. But there will be a lot of people reading this thread who have that mentality. More than half the people I interact with have this kind of view. If we can just get people to think about the possibilities, then that's great. Knowledge is a powerful thing.Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2018, 01:39:48 pmNo it's not (and I wouldn't call anything you do stupid). I don't have to be a Government operative to have secrets. You seem to discount the fact that even mundane details about a person can be valuable to others. You might not value your personal information, but I do.As for the comments about paranoia, they are starting to stray awfully close to a personal attack. We don't do that kind of thing on this forum.To put it bluntly, you are wrong about me. You can think what you like at the end of the day, but it doesn't change what actually is. (Also personal attacks don't add anything meaningful to the discussion and are best kept to yourself). "Paranoid" and "irrational" are two words which don't even factor into my thinking or personality. I've seen countless people who have their money taken or have had their ID stolen and used by criminals, I would not want to be one of them. Just because someone's methods or experience differ from your own, doesn't make them wrong and it certainly doesn't make them paranoid. There are things in this world you aren't privy to or understand, so how about accepting that there is more than one way to approach these issues? Put your "macro thinking" hat on for a moment, you might even learn something.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 02:00:59 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 18, 2018, 03:35:19 pmI've been trying to avoid the flame war going on vis a vis the security actions to take -- no intention of kicking over a hornets nest.Yes, I do have the original Apple box so that should be of some value. One site I looked at quickly a while back indicated as much as about $800 USD but others seem to indicate a more realistic valuation is closer to $300 USD -- quite the difference. I'm not an ebay type and have never bought or sold anything on it, but some seem to think that's the best place.Brian

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 02:10:15 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on August 19, 2018, 02:00:59 amIt really depends on the exact model and the condition. The pristine 12,9" model is a lot more expensive than a first generation 9,7" with wear and tear.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 02:16:13 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 19, 2018, 02:10:15 amYes, mine is a 2.6 year old gen 1 12.9 in near new condition.Brian

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 02:18:00 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on August 19, 2018, 02:16:13 amWhat the configuration? Colour, memory size and WIFI or cell?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 04:15:48 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on August 19, 2018, 02:00:59 amSelling it with the original box will increase its value. Be sure to list the actual model number (the Axxxx number on the back of the unit) along with the listing so that buyers know exactly which model they are bidding for.As I said earlier before a few started criticising my advice, take a few easy steps now so you can be sure all your personal information is gone and unlink your Apple ID from the device so the buyer can register it against their own. It doesn't take long and if gives you piece of mind.Plenty of clear photos and if it's the cellular version, include the IMEI number in the listing so that buyer can do their own checks to make sure that it isn't reported as stolen.There are a lot of dodgy (stolen) Apple products online, the more you can show that you're a legitimate seller, the more people will be interested in your item instead of some dodgy seller trying to be deliberately vague.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 04:21:30 am
content: I'm not sure I'd want the IMEI or unique serial online publicly. I'm not sure whether it's possible for Apple hardware, but it's certainly possible to clone them in other devices.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 04:24:16 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 19, 2018, 04:21:30 amAt the end of the day, if he is getting rid of the device, what does it matter? IMEI's are very rarely cloned and if they are, it's usually randomly generated. Why anyone would go to the effort of trawling through ebay listings just for IMEI / serial numbers, I don't know.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 10:15:18 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 amThere have been several instances, not just the San Bernardino phone. (IIRC, from what info has leaked, the third party was able to crack it because it wasn’t running a more recent version of iOS. As you know, Apple has been increasing the security, both in software and in hardware, as time progresses.) But my point was this: The freaking FBI didn’t have the skills to crack it. They had to resort to a third party. The point is that the skill required to do it is rare, and if you don’t already possess this skill, you’ll be paying through the nose to somebody who does, if the skill exists. Unless you are a high-value target, the cost of recovering the data is going to far exceed the value of the data.Quote from: Halcyon on August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 amOf course that’s possible. But is it likely? No.And if you sell the device today, erased, with up to date software, the sooner it sells, the sooner somebody else starts using it, causing any remnants of your data to be overwritten.Quote from: Halcyon on August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 amHence it making sense to get the thing back in use ASAP.Quote from: Halcyon on August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 amOnly if the person knows enough to make use of that knowledge. But most people aren’t techies, and we are not going to succeed in forcing them to become them. If you tell an ordinary user “Do steps 1, 2, 3”, and those things are easy enough to do, they’ll do them. If you say “Do steps 1-7”, they’re much more likely to do none of them at all, leaving them in a much worse place than if you’d given them the simpler steps that are adequate for 99.9% of situations.Quote from: Halcyon on August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 amLOL people do itall the timeon here. Not saying theyshould, but it happens. In any case, not intending anything to you as a personal attack. But it is my opinion that your standpoint is one of unreasonable worry verging on paranoia.Quote from: Halcyon on August 19, 2018, 01:24:47 amOf course I know there are other approaches and experiences. I never pretended otherwise. My point is that choosing therightapproach is essential, and that presentingallpossible approaches is counterproductive most of the time. And I think this is one of them.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 10:30:49 am
content: Let's not derail this thread any more.raptor1956: Let us know what you decide to do and what the outcome is. I'm sure people in the same boat as you would appreciate it. All the best mate.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 07:13:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 19, 2018, 02:18:00 amIt's 'slate grey' with 128GB and is currently connected to Verizon cell service. I used it mostly when flying my Inspire 1 Pro drone but I have pretty much retired the Inspire and am planning to sell it to.Brian

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 08:27:49 am
content: I do enjoy seeing these conversations, I find them most amusing.FWIW,Tooki, you may be right, we install a managed profile on our iDevices (approx 10-12,000 devices across the business) which may be what enforces the data deletion, it will also 'secure wipe' them remotely.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 08:29:48 am
content: Quote from: CJay on August 20, 2018, 08:27:49 amIndeed, corporately managed devices are an entirely different kettle of fish. Security policies are usually more stringent than a standard out-of-the-box consumer device.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 10:46:41 am
content: That’s what is so unique about iOS, IMHO: it uses corporate level security on consumer devices. You can’t even disable encryption on iOS devices, and each generation has even more hardware level security.“Find my iPhone”, part of the iCloud services, offers remote wipe, by the way. (And since that’s done by erasing the decryption keys, it’s a secure wipe of sorts.)

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 11:32:20 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 20, 2018, 10:46:41 amYou have to log in to the Apple account the device is registered to use 'Find My iDevice' though, with the client we use I can log in and reset the PIN, track, lock out or wipe any user's device as necessary, I believe that functionality may also be available to Apple corporate clients now (?) but our usage of iDevices predates Apple giving a toss about security and is also no doubt embedded deeply in corporate politics too.I'm afraid however, that I side with Halcyon on data security (my knowledge is not as current as his), if you're unlucky enough to sell your device to someone who has the intention of stealing data then all bets are off, however I would agree that for the average user who sells their device to be re-used it's unlikely to be an issue as long as they 'release' it from the activation lock and do a 'factory' reset/wipe.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 08:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 20, 2018, 10:46:41 amThose features (except for the per-file encryption) has been standard on Android for years. Android encrypts the entire partition. Unless you've been living under a rock, iPhone hasn't been "unique" in any way for many years, except for being a major pain in the ass when you want to do something simple. Apple stopped innovating a long time ago, rather it's now just a game of "follow the leader" when it comes to phone hardware/software."Corporate level security" doesn't really mean much. It's like saying "Hospital grade cleaner", it means nothing.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 03:42:53 am
content: Quote from: CJay on August 20, 2018, 11:32:20 amAll of those features have been available to corporate users (via mobile device management and Exchange) for longer than in iCloud. (And of course you have to log in to do that, whether it's MDM, Exchange, or iCloud… not entirely sure what you were trying to say there?)Quote from: Halcyon on August 20, 2018, 08:35:59 pmYes, but they've been standard in iOS for even longer, according to everything I've ever heard. Android was late to that party. Regardless, though, Apple has one big advantage in this arena: vertical integration. They've been building more hardware-level security into each chipset generation, and designing the security hardware and iOS to match each other. With Android being independent from the chipset makers, they can't have quite the same level of deep integration. (For those who aren't aware, theiOS security guideis a fascinating read. It goes into a fair bit about what the hardware and software do.)Quote from: Halcyon on August 20, 2018, 08:35:59 pmThe classic war cry of the Apple hater, as Apple whooshes by!Meanwhile, the latest Samsung flagship — which just came out — lags behind the iPhone X in CPU performance, and that iPhone model is going on a year old! There are many valid criticisms of Apple, but SoC performance ain't one of them!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 05:12:58 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 21, 2018, 03:42:53 amAbsolutely, the Apple A11 SOC is more powerful. Can't argue with specifications and benchmarks.But before I'm completely bowled over by Apple "whooshing by", shall I point out a few other "innovative" decisions Apple made when compared to its competitors, being that the iPhone X has:Less RAMLess storage capacityLower resolution LCD (which also uses more power)Lower resolution front cameraHigher aperture lens on the rear camera (less sensitive to light)No fingerprint or iris scanningNo support for PMA wireless chargingSlightly worse water ingress protectionMore expensive to repair using genuine partsNo 3.5mm audio outMaximum slow-motion video recording frame rate of 240fps (vs. 960fps for the Samsung Galaxy S9)Lower battery lifePhysically heavier deviceMore expensive to purchaseAnd almost all of those still apply to older Android handsets. But put all that aside for a moment, watch me plug my "lower performing" phone into a standard USB socket on any computer and use it as standard USB storage.There there, don't cry now *pats back*

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 03:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2018, 05:12:58 amAssuming S9 vs iPhone XLess RAM— because iOS needs less RAMLess storage capacity— 64-256GB on both, identicalLower resolution LCD (which also uses more power)Lower resolutions use less power. Any evidence to support that Apple's screen usesmorepower? (I question Samsung's logic in using such crazy high-res screens, since at normal viewing distance, the human eye can't resolve but about half the resolution of the S9!)Lower resolution front camera— yepHigher aperture lens on the rear camera (less sensitive to light)— yepNo fingerprint or iris scanning— because it has Face ID, which is far more secure than fingerprint or iris scanningNo support for PMA wireless charging— who cares? It's got Qi, though I'll freely admit that I think wireless charging is dumbSlightly worse water ingress protection— yepMore expensive to repair using genuine parts— definitelyNo 3.5mm audio out— yepMaximum slow-motion video recording frame rate of 240fps (vs. 960fps for the Samsung Galaxy S9)— yepLower battery life— yep. I wish Apple would offer a "fat" version of the iPhone (thickness, not screen size, I don't want a phablet!) with 3-4x the internal battery.Physically heavier device— 11 gramsMore expensive to purchase— true for iPhone X (it's somewhat complicated by the fact that the iPhone X is a luxury variant, while the iPhone 8 is essentially the "normal" version whose pricing is identical to the S9)Don't get me wrong, there are things I think Apple can do better. We just shouldn't poo-poo the things they do well.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 09:43:04 pm
content: So what's OP's iPad worth?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:00:13 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 21, 2018, 03:33:16 pmThe iPhone uses an OLED display whilst the Samsung's and others have moved to AMOLED. Yes, the AMOLEDs cost a little more.I don't have an iPhone here that I can do tests on but generally speaking, AMOLED displays consume less power than OLED displays.Also, the higher resolution comes in handy when you're plugging your Android phone into a display or television which is becoming increasingly common as you're basically carrying around a fairly powerful computer in your pocket. I've done it on a few occasions. Of course you can adjust the resolution up and down in the settings to suit your needs (and increase your battery's run time). As an example, on my S8, I can adjust the display resolution anywhere from 1480x720 to 2960x1440.Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 02:28:33 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2018, 01:00:13 amAMOLED is a type of OLED display. PMOLED isn't common in phones due to it being less optimal for larger screen sizes over a few inches.The iPhone also has an AMOLED display, but calling it OLED is also correct. It's just less specific.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2018, 01:00:13 amMr. Scram explained it well. iPhone X’s display is AMOLED, too — it’s even made by Samsung. So yeah, I find itextremelyhard to believe that the iPhone X’s display uses more power. If anything, it’s likely to useless, since it’s lower resolution and not quite as bright.P.S. The “AM” in AMOLED stands for “active matrix”. That means that, just like in an active matrix LCD (TFT), there’s a transistor etched into each subpixel. (TFT stands for “thin film transistor”.) The transistor helps to store the pixel’s state and ensures that neighboring pixels don’t interfere with each other, as happens in passive matrix screens. But these transistors actually use some power, so all else held equal, an active matrix display will usemorepower than a passive matrix display. But the difference in image quality is so huge that we now use active matrix for essentially all color displays, as well as high quality monochrome ones. But one effect is that the lower the resolution, the fewer transistors, and the lower the energy use. Additionally, lower resolution (for a given screen area) means less wasted space in the gaps between subpixels, so the ratio of lit area to unlit areas is better, also saving power.Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2018, 01:00:13 amAh, well external displays are a completely different issue. I’m talking about the physical resolution of the internal display, and I maintain that a higher resolution (as in, the ppi) is useless above a certain point, which in screens at phone distance is around 300ppi.The logical display resolution needn’t have anything to do with the physical resolution.I haven’t used external screens on Android, so I dunno what it’s like. But I do use it on iOS (AirPlay to my TV), and how it works depends on the app. It can mirror the screen, or an app can send a separate video stream to the TV, such as video or a presentation.Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2018, 01:00:13 amI thought I read years ago that Android was going to prohibit apps on microSD storage. Whatever happened with that?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 06:25:46 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 21, 2018, 09:43:04 pmA 2.6 year old space gray iPad Pro 12.9" 128GB 1st gen, launch price $1079. (assuming A1584 no WWAN)It has the A9 chip for now up to iOS 11.3.Somewhere between 400 and 600 depending on the cosmetic condition, I suppose.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 02:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on August 23, 2018, 06:25:46 amHis model has a cell modem, considering it's apparently connected to Verizon cell service. This model is guaranteed to get an upgrade to iOS 12 and likely to receive a few major upgrades after that.OP can always start highish and drop the price if it doesn't sell. If you want a quick flip go a bit lower, but not stupid low as something tells me a lot of people will be interested in a Pro for a fair price.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:10:31 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 22, 2018, 01:30:17 pmNot sure? Why would Android remove a useful feature like that? (Sounds like more of an Apple thing). I know it wasn't possible to do that with earlier versions of Android (without rooting or using some custom ROM) but it became a standard feature quite some time ago.It's still present in the current version of Android.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:16:04 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 23, 2018, 10:10:31 pmI forget what the explanation was, hence why I asked!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 23, 2018, 10:16:04 pmI wasn't being critical of you, sorry if it came across that way. But I couldn't help but take another dig at Apple ;-)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:53:16 pm
content: I vaguely remember it might have to do with the MicroSD card being vulnerable to being pulled out and read, which was consequently fixed by encrypting it as well. Don't quote me on that, though.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 06:08:38 am
content: Then just google it.https://www.androidpolice.com/2012/10/30/here-is-another-reason-google-continues-to-shun-sd-cards-multiuser-support/- Poor filesystem. (true)And DRM.Quote from:https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/install-locationQuoteTo add to this that SD cards can be of shit quality, severely impacting the experience. Even Google cares about this.Can we go on topic now?