Weird screws - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:16:04 am
content: I have tried to repair my Nespresso machine, and I need to open it. It has some weird screws that have an oval protrusion/relief. I went and bought two sets of 100 screwdriver bits each, and they have all shapes and sizes but not the oval shape that I need. Do you know what kind of screw I am dealing with?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:18:13 am
content: A well focused close up photograph will go a long way in getting some assistance...

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:41:12 am
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nespresso-Krups-Service-Repair-Tool-Open-Security-Oval-Head-Screws-/121114184054Literally the first google entry for "nespresso screwdriver"....Greetings

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:47:52 am
content: Whereas I searched "screws with oval head" or "screws with oval relief on head" !

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 08:27:21 am
content: OK, after visiting another page showing how various people made their own tool to deal with these awful screws, I also made my own.I used a "security" hexagon socket and with the application of a heavy hammer shaped it so it acquired an oval shape. I then managed to remove all those scews.Here are two photos I took showing a socket before and after and the offending screw

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 08:41:15 am
content: Well done...Pity about the blood loss on the paper towel in the second photo...

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 08:50:21 am
content: Had to open a vastly more expensive coffee machine with the same type of screw.I just cut a slot in the head of the screw with a Dremel disc. Worked perfectly.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 09:16:52 am
content: Nice.But what's the point of security screws? those aren't really something you can buy from B&Q in packs of 1000, so they most likely cost more than your standard machine screw.And they don't really keep you out of the device, which is their primary purpose. As above, you can simply make your own tool. So why do some products bother? it'd save about £2 in custom security screw per unit if it just used standard machine screws."if you make a lock somebody will break it"

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:10:33 am
content: I think these screws are placed as a deterrent for taking the machine to your local repair shop (ensure business for Nespresso or Krups in this case). The local repair guy may not bother making a special tool, and if they would be deterred from proceeding for fear of breaking something.Another issue is safety, you know with the US mostly, if you open it and manage to electrocute or scold yourself with hot water. They try to prevent the ordinary American housewife from attempting a repair, I guess. In Europe we are more open to the idea of letting our wives electrocute themselves.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:14:14 am
content: dunno about you but mine just chucks it at me and says "FIX IT!"

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:20:14 am
content: Maybe it could also be an issue of laziness if the right bit isn't available... but then again

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:30:15 am
content: Quote from: Balaur on November 04, 2015, 08:50:21 amVicegrips would work too. They work even on completely rounded off bolt heads and screw heads where the slot or star has long gone.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:41:46 am
content: Long nosed pliers and grips will not work as some screws are recessed 1"-1.5" inside a narrow shaft. Another deterrent.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 12:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: akis on November 04, 2015, 11:41:46 amAssuming you can't make or locate tool in such cases, you could drill them out enough to use a screw extractor bit.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 12:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 04, 2015, 12:55:21 pmAs someone already mentioned, the simplest way is to use dremel with a thin abrasive disc to make a slot in their heads.. Worked well for me, though plastic housing was slightly damaged.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:16:53 pm
content: How exactly will you fit a dremmel and its cutting disk inside a 1.5" shaft of around 8mm diameter to reach the head of the screw? :-)FWIW I did not consider drilling the screws for the mess and possible slippage and collateral damage.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:55:33 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on November 04, 2015, 12:57:56 pmMy solution was specific to recessed holes (cutting wheel can't fit).For screws where there's enough room however, grab the Dremel and a cutting disk, and have at it. Engineer/Vamplier screw extractor pliers would be an alternate solution.Quote from: akis on November 04, 2015, 01:16:53 pmWell, you were able to make a tool that did the job, so no need to find an alternate solution.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 09:36:47 pm
content: Now that you have the unit open I would be tempted to replace those screws with something more standard. Check the earth bonding as well.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:44:24 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on November 04, 2015, 09:36:47 pmI had the same problem. I found rapidly on google how to make the adapted tool with a 8mm bolt and a 3mm drill that you move toelongate the hole. I thought of replacing the screws, but the tool went so nicely, and I was too lazy to search for the adapted screws in my junk boxes, so finally I put back the original weird screws...

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:04:12 pm
content: I have replaced all screws with crosshead self tapping screws of similar size and binned the silly screws that gave me grief.The machine (Krups XN 2120) is not very well made.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:11:16 pm
content: That's better.The most silly thing is that i have an older nespresso machine. On the older one, the same screw are normal philips cross head screws. So it was only after a while that they hire an engineer to find the way to make life difficult for those who want to repair the machine by themselves.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:42:01 pm
content: As I found out yesterday on a couple of new car battery chargers they also appear to be used by manufacturers to hinder people having a look inside and identifying how shit house some of these devices are made, complete and utter garbage they should be ashamed.No user serviceable parts inside on this occasion just meant we are hiding our poorly designed layout and cheap arse components from view, these were made to throw away from the get go and I found them discarded at our local recycle centre brand new in the box, I wont name the brand until I have completed some further testing and may decide to compile a report and post it publicly, Joe Bloggs deserves to know that this stuff is just plain garbage and the retailers either don't know or don't care.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:47:59 pm
content: those "special" screws pissed me off that everytime i encounter a fix with this "unspecial" screws, with any necessary force, unscrew it and throw it away for good, replace it with compatible + or - head screws. next time fix i wont get pissed again..

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 10:38:26 pm
content: Use of these screws keeps anyone not smart enough to figure a way around them out of the potentially dangerous insides of the device. That person is also more likely to make a safe repair so the device won't cause the residence to go up in smoke.I am sure it is the legal staff of these companies that require such "security" features. They know that when a fire is traced to some piece of gear inside the house, the liability lawsuit will not spend much time looking for an owner modification, but go straight to the deep pockets of the manufacturers. Of course in preparing their defense the manufacturer will be looking for evidence of "tampering". A dremeled slot in the screw, replacement with standard screws and marks on the heads of screws from vice grips will all be "get out of jail free" cards for the manufacturer, as will any splices or replacement parts not on the original bill of materials.Most people on this forum needn't worry much about the lawsuit aspect when doing repairs. Their repairs will be as safe as, and very likely safer than the original configuration. There are other kinds of people in the world though. People on this forum who sell things might want to think about things like that to see if they see any needs.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 02:28:10 am
content: Quote from: akis on November 04, 2015, 11:41:46 amJust like the Metcal MX-500, security torx screws and recessed.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 07:17:33 am
content: I bought two security screw driver bit sets, around 100 bits on each, and I am sure they contain every security bit known to man, except the Nespresso of course.http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003XIIVCK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KE13RYQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 08:41:25 pm
content: Quote from: akis on November 07, 2015, 07:17:33 amNice when they work.Unfortunately, it seems manufacturers are wise to these, and some make the recessed hole diameter small enough the bit holder won't fit to prevent their use. A long enough bit/dedicated driver will of course, but tend to be harder to find and more expensive when you do (especially for the latest versions/profiles). Big PITA for those that can fix whatever the broken item is.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 03:39:59 am
content: The answer to that is to find or make a slender bit holder. There are a LOT of places where that turns out to be useful, even for non security screws.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 12:32:11 pm
content: I have seen bit sets like that all over Europe and there is a puzzle.http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003XIIVCK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00In the lid of the set is a 'Y' shaped bit and nobody can tell me what it's used for. Any ideas?

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 12:44:53 pm
content: They are used for screw hooks...

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 07:45:16 pm
content: Ah!!!!!!!!Thank you, you have solved one of life's little mysteries. Even the guys at Hornbach were stuck.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 12:34:37 pm
content: Never mind, I don't know of a single person who has ever used them, including me

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 05:21:22 pm
content: I don't know anybody who uses them either, but now that I know what it is for, I might. It is not an application that I need often so it might be a few years.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 05:47:46 pm
content: I often put that sort of hook into wood. Take thin posi screwdriver and use it to push a pilot hole into the wood. Start to screw the hook into the wood until fingers hurt. Use screwdriver through the hook to gain a lot of leverage and rotate it into the hole. No need for fancy bits.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 07:14:22 pm
content: I often just put another cup hook in my battery drill and use that to turn the one in the wall.

author: hgh1602
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 12:20:21 am
content: Quote from: akis on November 04, 2015, 07:16:04 amI was in the same position as the OP. Looking for a screwdriver tool set that had these awful bits in it.i found allot of singles, like the one that was mentioned from ebay. following that suggestion, i found the 102 piece tool set that has the oval screwdriver in it.i hope this helps the OP and anyone else coming after me looking for this.i dont want to violate any link policies, so if you need the link then let me know - otherwise I think you can find it like this better any way.1. go to ebay2. the item number is 181986075306 <- enter this numberit is the number for 102 piece "screws with oval head set" or "screws with oval relief on head tool set"note: there might be others, this where i found mine.

author: dwpatter53
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 12:17:37 am
content: All the electronic suppliers and discount tool places sell sets of security bits.Do not know if that oval bit is included in the sets.

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2016, 03:08:46 am
content: I had thought my wife had lost it when she asked me to remove some of these the other day,I asked what I needed to bring and she was like they are round like a boltNeedless to say thanks to these screws I had to hear "I told you so"from my wifeI made a tool but honestly I was about to just drill them out.If you do decide to ever drill stuff like this out,use a lefthand twist bit that cuts in reverse as chances are they will unscrew themselves LONG before you finish drilling

author: sangvikh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2016, 11:07:43 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on November 07, 2015, 02:28:10 amAny chance of access with a magnetic bit holder? Any well stocked bit set contains security torx.