Why is Apple obsessed with making products thinner and lighter? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: aqarwaen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 04:07:47 pm
content: I don't get it Why is Apple obsessed with making products thinner and lighter?why not just make macbooks what are decently thick and not so light?seriously why Why is Apple obsessed with making products thinner and lighter,also making their products overheat or thermo throttle cuse they are to think or light for decent cooling.I mean would not stopp buying them if Apple was more focused on performance,instead making them so lighter and thinner with each new generation

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 04:29:22 pm
content: we travel most the time, every oz of stuff adds up...iPad, 2 x iPhone, laptop. All are hauled in the flight carryon, and some everyday.Even a few mm extra thickness is noticeable.j

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 04:33:53 pm
content: Have you had a job where you travel a lot, not using your own car, and have a lug a notebook around all the time? It quickly makes you want a really compact and light notebook, even if sitting down to do actual work makes you want something with a large screen.

author: hexreader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 04:40:20 pm
content: Some people like luxury+style and are willing to pay extra to get itSome people prefer utility and/or have a limited budget.Different products for different markets.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 04:44:14 pm
content: I like having a thinner phone; it's more comfortable in my pocket.I wouldn't use a Macbook Air though. Fanless or thermally constrained laptops are a bad idea for my workloads. But perhaps it's not intended for that kind of application.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 05:11:10 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on March 16, 2022, 04:33:53 pmNearly 10 years ago I had to front up for a follow up tour of the UK, up through the middle, which was a embellishment of one just 12 months prior. After the first trip, I too became worried about the baggage retrieval system they've got at Heathrow*. And vowed to not put my coveted laptop in any unnecessary jeopardy.Took a Intel NUC, a wireless keyboard/trackpad and a HDMI cable. I had a Samsung Galaxy + gopro for the day-2-day. I relied on the hotel's TVs capabilities that were observed on the previous visit. If the plan bombed, I thought I'd just find a laptop vendor but luckily I didn't need to.Because it was luggage not 'carry on', I didn't need to lug to much stuff around everywhere. I got home and was quite chuffed how I managed better by managing better. But seriously, dat baggage system at LHR.*

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 05:21:18 pm
content: For the past 15 years +/- I have always had multiple laptop computers available to choose from. One of those has always a very thin and light 'notebook' that is literally no more to carry around than a spiral bound notebook. They have their uses, and I wouldn't want to go without.None of mine have been Apples, and I know that's exactly what this thread is about. I have no interest in another Mac v Windows v linux debate, but I thought my perspective might still have some value.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 05:33:23 pm
content: They make what they think will sell, and seem to do quite well at it, if you aren't in that customer base that is not their problem.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 06:01:26 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on March 16, 2022, 05:11:10 pmThere isn't a baggage handling system in the world that won't wreck a notebook. I saw a very nice high end Toshiba notebook (which are more robust than most makes) packed in the very centre of a large hard shell suitcase full of soft clothes. The suitcase looked perfect when it arrived. All the clothes looked OK when the suitcase was opened. When we got to the notebook at the centre it was a total wreck. The screen was smashed, the case was broken, the hard disk not longer worked when plugged into another machine to retrieve its contents.It wasn't my notebook. I thought it was a stupid idea to send it as checked in luggage. I was surprised just how thoroughly destroyed it was, though.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 06:10:29 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on March 16, 2022, 04:44:14 pmin pants back pocketMacbook Air could be for Web and Word processing

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 06:21:36 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on March 16, 2022, 06:01:26 pmThinking about this after a few minutes, I wonder, because of the batteries not allowed in checked baggage thing, if the luggage was opened and the device, um, 'spoken to'.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 06:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on March 16, 2022, 06:21:36 pmThis was before they complained about batteries in checked baggage. It was the era when many places forced you to check in batteries if you had more than the one or two you might need in flight. There were no signs of the bag being opened, at least from looking at the condition of the clothes.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 06:24:41 pm
content: Odd question. You got answers already.Just adding that, there are Apple laptops that are less thin and more powerful in the Macbook Pro series.But if you need something chunkier, that has better thermal management for heavy-duty work, just buy something else. There are myriads of laptops out there. Or don't use a laptop.To each their use case of course. I personally favor a small (13" to 14") and light laptop for traveling, and fixed workstations for heavy duty applications when I'm not traveling.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 08:59:30 pm
content: Quote from: aqarwaen on March 16, 2022, 04:07:47 pmWell, hmmm, I have the new M1 Pro-based 16" MacBook Pro, and I can assure you it's neither thin nor light. It's heavier and thicker than the 15" Intel-based MacBook Pro it replaced. I put up with the weight and size because I need the performance. Hell, I shlepped a 17" MacBook Pro across the country in a backpack for years.My middle-school-age kid has a 13" MacBook Air (last Intel version) and given all of the crap he has to shlep to school, thin and light are paramount. And I'll say this: he does a lot of work using Logic Pro for recording as well as math stuff, and the machine is perfectly capable. He uses a quad i7 Mac mini at home when he needs the bigger screen.My wife has a 13" MacBook Air (first M1 version) and she values portability and weight over raw performance, especially when traveling. She too has a new-ish Mac mini at home, with a 4k display, for when she needs the bigger display. She has a docking station at the office.And be honest: all of the other laptop manufacturers make thin/light machines, too. Most of the road warrior types who use Windows machines have the 13" display/thin machines because again they value size and weight over raw performance.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 10:18:29 pm
content: Another thing one must keep in mind is the most resource intense computing most people do on a routine basis is probably watching youtube or maybe zoom calls, they don't know or care that the thing will overheat and throttle if you hold it at 100% CPU, because they never do.A few years back my daily driver for quite a while was a 2008 IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T60, 32 bit, 3GB, ran one of the lightweight Ubuntu variants. That would occasionally get overloaded and was generally showing it's age, but it was a fairly useable office/web type machine and was mainly retired because the hinge points were finally cracking and it blew a backlight inverter. It lasted a couple years after that as an occasional use "this would be easier in Linux" machine with a external monitor, that and I was addicted to the keyboard.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2022, 05:46:26 am
content: It isn't just Apple, it's everybody now. The simple answer is because that's the trend, Apple products are nice but they're as much about fashion as they are functionality. Personally I like a lot about my employer issued Macbook but I think it sacrifices far too much in order to be thinner than it needs to be. A few more mm thickness to have a larger battery, better keyboard and more ports would be well worth it.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2022, 07:31:45 am
content: For quite a while, my "laptop" was essentially a desktop that I could take home with me. It went into a dock on my desk at work, it went in my car, it say on a desk at home. I didn't travel very often, so its weight and battery life were pretty irrelevant. The kids also had laptops, which were essentially small desktops that they could take to their rooms. Ditto.Then the kids went off to college, and they wanted something they could take notes on in class, carry around campus in their backpacks, and use between classes wherever they happened to be. Size and weight became relevant. Battery life became important. There was one of those "ultrabooks" (12inch screen, smaller than a textbook) on sale at the time, and I bought one for my son. It was ... rather nice. I bought another one for myself, and started using it when I did travel, and it was a LOT nicer to lug through airports (especially since airlines cut back on free luggage, so most of the time you'd be lugging a carryon suitcase and a laptop bag all around.) I preferred it a lot, for anytime I didn't actually need "big computing power."(I now have a "gaming laptop" as well. It's ... hilarious. I think just the power brick for it weighs more than the ultrabook INCLUDING it's power supply.)For the people who really need laptops, small and light is nice. ("at home", you can connect it to a full-sized keyboard and display, right?) If it's just a "luggable", then you can go for the bigger and heavier machine.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2022, 12:00:10 pm
content: It amazes me how many people, who travel rarely or never, will buy laptops for home use.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2022, 02:40:20 pm
content: I still wonder -why is the Apple logo upside down on 2003 laptops when the lid is open?- My first girlfriend looks like Sarah Jessica Parker, and my first laptop was the same Apple PowerBook G3 used by Carrie Bradshaw in Sex and the City (2004)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 01:47:24 am
content: I used to be a road warrior well before the ultra-light trend and the novel Latitude CPi (PII-266) was incredibly powerful for its time and far from lightweight: back then, much more emphasis was done to thedurabilityof the laptop, using high quality hinges and a sturdy shell behind the fragile LCD screen - that always proved invaluable when the regular idiot tried to crush your laptop bag under their luggage in the overhead compartment. That laptop had every port I needed, including a handy pair of PCMCIA that could hold both the network and the 14.4k modem.The next generations eroded durability while gaining portability, culminating with a Precision 5500 that was quite scant of ports, super slim and poor quality (at least the battery).The latest HP (Elitebook 830 G6) gives me hope this trend might be reversing, at least in some brands. It is holding better than the Precision and feels much more sturdy. It is heavier due to its better enclosure (the Dell had that rubbery feel that starts to decay over time).

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 03:30:48 am
content: Making products thinner, lighter is one "improvement" a manufacturer can make. It also makes something largely serviceable.The MacBook butterfly keyboard is a huge Apple FAIL in that respect. 4 years of garbage,class action lawsuitand it really damaged their reputation staying obstinate instead of acknowledging the design was bad.I'm not sure if the lawsuit settled or what happened there. Sure pissed off journalists.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 05:54:37 am
content: Quotenot everyone has room to dedicate space to a desktop. Especially if gets to be one for me, one for the spouse, one for each kid... (also: cost. A low-end laptop is usually cheaper than a low-end desktop plus the display.)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 06:29:42 am
content: Quote from: rdl on March 17, 2022, 12:00:10 pmi like my laptop in my bedroom, or dragging it around the house. I despise tablets.The desktop is parked in the lab portion of the room

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 06:40:42 am
content: It's simply because not everyone needs a powerful computer.I personally have a 4th gen i7 desktop that is still going strong along with a pretty chunky 17 inch 8 core Ryzen laptop. Both of those make pretty effective space heaters when running flat out. But i do a lot of things that benefit from the extra horsepower.However most people have a laptop so that they can browse facebook, watch youtube and occasionally write a word document. Even the crappiest of brand new laptops can do all of those easily, so they don't really get much benefit from a laptop being faster, but they do get benefit from a laptop being lighter and thinner.What is wrong is when people who are into gaming get a laptop as there primary machine. Running the latest games requires a lot of sustained horsepower from it. So even if the laptop is fast enough to run it, it is only the big thick chunky gaming laptops that actually have the proper cooling to handle it continuously.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 06:50:14 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on March 18, 2022, 06:29:42 amI have a nice desktop I never use anymore, portability wins over raw power almost every time and I don't really have a good spot for the desktop anymore. I have a few tablets people have given me but I never really have found a good use for one.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 11:52:31 am
content: I don't even need a *laptop*, just a terminal

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2022, 12:45:19 pm
content: If you're travelling.. light is very nice. Or working on laptop without a desk (ergonomically nightmare though). I've a thinkpad P50 that's about to get 6 years old.. At the time I had choice (at my college university) to buy either a dual-core 8GB ultrabook, or this workstation (price difference was only 150 eur or so). Over a span of 6yrs I'm glad I got the workstation variant.. even after 6 years it's still a capable lab machine with i7 and 16GB of RAM, ~100Wh battery, 3 disk storage slots, but it does weigh almost 3kg...You can probably get the same performance in an ultrabook form factor nowadays.. say a Ryzen 5600U or a Apple M1. It makes a Macbook Air quite an interesting form factor.. Battery life, weight, size? Very good, hard to beat with many Windows laptops. Fanless design? Not really a big issue IMO. If I do prolonged heavy work I'll use my desktop or home server. Get the Pro if you do need more cooling. You need to step up to the larger M1 chips anyway to get any appreciable more performance.The big elephant in the room though is the base memory config and upgrade cost. They clearly target their machines at regular consumers with standard 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD configuration. That'll be plenty for normal use.. (probably 90%+ of the consumer base). It'll probably be "fine" for even some light dev work, but if you start any Java IDE nowadays it will chew up through 2GB+ of RAM. Open a webbrowser.. file manager.. e-mail.. chat applications.. and it's clear they didn't had massive multi-tasking in mind for the standard config. Of course it's fixable.. if you pay the crazy upgrade fees upfront. I think that deserves far more to be called outI don't even think that if they made the laptop thicker, that they would put in any kind of slot anyway. Why would they? People will buy nonetheless. And who needs repair-ability and data recovery anyhow.