Rigol DHO814 or Siglent SDS1104X-U - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: hwasti
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 11:59:02 pm
content: After nearly 30 years in service, my trusty old Tektronix TDS210 is on its deathbed and I will need a replacement soon.I have narrowed it down to Rigol DHO814 or Siglent SDS1104X-U. They both have all the features I need and many that will be nice to have. I am leaning towards Rigol because it has more of the nice to have features, even though it is about $75 more.Does anyone have any opinions about the quality/reliability between the two brands?Any opinions on the usability/speed of the two user interfaces?Finally, any opinions about the real-world performance, the actual reason to buy the scope!

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 12:35:32 am
content: The 1104X-U seems likely to be an evolutionary dead end... if you're looking at a Siglent, the SDS804X HD is just barely more expensive list price, and much more comparable to that Rigol.The Rigol/Siglent question in general is just going to attract advocates and fans on both sides.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:11:14 am
content: This topic has been done to death. Siglent 12bit wins when anybody is being honest. 😉https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-between-entry-level-12-bit-dsos/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-vs-siglent-scopes-in-cheapest-hd12-bit-segment-439265/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:31:15 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 27, 2024, 11:59:02 pmQuite okay DSO but with limited capability compared to others.As member abeyer points out SDS800X HD offers the most capability in low cost DSO's and the fine work here from Performa01 explores these features:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

author: hwasti
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:34:50 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on October 28, 2024, 12:35:32 amThanks.Maybe I should have started with a less divisive question, like which is the one true religion

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 02:18:06 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 01:34:50 amHmmm... haven't seen a good SubGenius vs FSM debate in a while.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 03:25:12 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on October 28, 2024, 02:18:06 amThey've got nothing on the Church of Bacon:https://unitedchurchofbacon.org/🥓

author: Hella_Wini22
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 04:08:26 am
content: QuoteEasy peasy. Pastafarianism.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:12:32 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 27, 2024, 11:59:02 pmI've managed to buy siglent in the United States a year or so ago, but haven't shipped it to Russian Federation yet. Soon!Back then it was top notch. Now, yea SDS804X for a few dollars more. We're talking about $399 vs $429 here. Spend a few more bucks!70 MHz, I think it is unlockable, do some research.

author: hwasti
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:17:30 am
content: Quote from: u666sa on October 28, 2024, 05:12:32 amSDS804 is 70MHz, which is a deal breaker. Money is always secondary to performance.

author: EvgenyG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:30:28 am
content: The 70Mhz of 804 will beat the 100Mhz of 1104. Also, unless you run a company and need to be super compliant, there is an upgrade path to get you a really nice scope.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:43:28 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 05:17:30 amI'm not sure a newer 70MHz 12 bit is necessarily a bad performance tradeoff vs an older 100MHz 8 bit, in general. And I think most people here make these calculations assuming that home gamers on a budget are going to take advantage of the software (*cough*free) upgrades a device is capable of, which takes that one up to 200MHz.

author: ttelectronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 06:15:05 am
content: You can upgrade the Siglent SDS804X HD to an 824X HD which gives you 200 MHz, 120,000 wfms in normal mode and 100 Mpts of memory. The probes that come with it appear to be well above the rated 70 MHz specs for the probes.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 06:47:25 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 05:17:30 amAnd yet you've been battling away with an ancient TDS210.....a horrible POS in my opinion that was made to a low price point.When I fixed scopes for a hobby a TDS210 required more mods than anything else I worked on to make it properly rugged for normal use.Couldn't get rid of it fast enough !Later I brought a TDS2012B primarily for the ability to save screenshots to USB then that thing spat its toys and is still in a busted state.Then 11 yrs ago I hooked up with Siglent and AFAIK every unit I have sold is still in operation....I never got that experience with a Tek.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 06:51:03 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 05:17:30 amIf money is not so important why not a SDS814X then?

author: hwasti
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 07:54:15 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 28, 2024, 06:47:25 amThe TDS210 worked well enough and has been absolutely reliable for 30 years. I have no complaints. If memory serves me, I paid about $1,200 for it back in the day. And yes, TDS210 and TDS212 were the most basic entry level digital scopes from any manufacturer in their day in the mid 90's. Again, if I remember correctly, all other options were over $10K.It has been good enough for 95% of what I do at home, though the number has been getting smaller over time and much smaller recently. For the rest, I drag home what I need from the office. It is a pain, figuratively and literally, but is a workable solution.The most basic option is to just buy a 2 channel 70MHz scope and continue what I am doing. After that, as I increase capabilities, I can increase the percentage I can do at home without needing to lug anything home to 99% or 99.9% or higher. But I will not spend enough cash to get to 100% (replicate everything at the office). The question for me is where I want to draw the line.Decisions, decisions, decisions....One interesting thing is that no one has even recommended anything Rigold. Have all the Rigold partisans been banished or do they not work weekends?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:14:45 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 07:54:15 amAnd their lies your dilemma......you need experience what modern low cost DSO's can now offer.It's a different world to even a decade ago.QuoteSDS804X HD provides a good bit more BW than 70 MHz....for which I need get one out and find the -3dB point although I'm sure someone has alreadyQuoteLet the threads here guide you.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:17:27 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 07:54:15 amI would definitely recommend a 12-bit scope, 4 channels, touch screen. Whether you buy 70 MHz and "unlock" it to 100 or 200 MHz via the software keys, or buy the official higher-spec'd model, will depend on your budget and moral stance.While the form factor of the DHO800 and SDS800X-HD series is the same as on your trusty TDS210, it's worth mentioning that the screen resolution is higher and the details and font size are smaller. If you have not had the opportunity to sit in front of one of these scopes, try to get access to one to see whether you can comfortably read the screen. You might find that the (unfortunately somewhat disproportionate) surcharge for a 10" scope is justified.Regarding the "Rigol vs. Siglent" debate: Siglent is ahead if you want to use advanced analysis features and FFT. Rigol is ahead regarding the learning curve -- their UI typically shows all relevant settings in a large dialog overlaid on the screen, where Siglent relies on side menus which may be nested or scrollable to present all required settings. On the other hand, Rigol wastes a bit too much screen space (for my taste) on graphical gimmicks in the 8" models -- they did not do a great job scaling the UI from the 10" scopes where it made its debut to the 8" series.Again, it would be ideal if you could take both scopes out for a quick spin. If that's not possible, at least look at some Youtube videos and illustrations in the brochures. Some people hate the Rigol UI, considering it too playful and gimmicky; others dislike Siglent and feel that it looks old-fashioned and drab to them.You mention "the office" for comparison. What scopes do you or your colleagues use there?

author: hwasti
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:49:20 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on October 28, 2024, 08:17:27 amThat is one of the reasons I had put the Rigol as the first choice. They have HDMI output and I have plenty of 17" to 27" monitors gathering dust that can be mounted above the bench. That said, such a setup makes using the touchscreen very impractical. It will work only if the user interface allows most everyday tasks to be done using knobs or buttons.At the office we have exclusively Tektronics, nothing newer than 10 years ago.You have a very good point about the user interface being a make or break issue. I had not put it up as high as I should have on the priority list.Getting back to Rigol vs Siglent, is there a major difference in reliability?Thanks.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 09:08:10 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 08:49:20 amHardware-wise, I don't think so. The fundamental construction is very similar: single PCB, forced air cooling. Rigol uses an external USB-C power supply in the DHO800, which some users like (flexibility!) and others dislike (clutter!). I don't recall a significant number of reports on hardware failures for either brand.Software-wise, both the DHO800 and SDS800X-HD series are in a "fully usable, with some minor glitches" state. Siglent is probably slightly ahead at the moment -- Rigol was about to catch up, but had to pull the most recent firmware update because it had nasty side effects under certain circumstances. Once they get that update out of the door, I'd say that both scopes can be considered to work "as designed", and the bigger question is whether you like the design.Good point about the HDMI output. It's a pity that Siglent does not offer that, although driving the scope via its web interface is a viable option. I use that a lot to capture screen shots and paste them right into the notes I'm writing, or to check on a long-term measurement from the living room. When I am in front of the scope I do tend to look at the small screen though, which has a higher update rate.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 09:19:56 am
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 08:49:20 amNot such an issue with a mouse (and touch) capable GUI.With all the models I use, I use the encoders and mouse control and only the touch display on my own scopes.However with a DSO on a shelf, mouse control becomes very convenient.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 10:27:50 am
content: i have Rigols and Siglents .... but i go to Siglent in my case i became fed up with rigol sw ...Siglent for me are better documented, and better pricedno failures on both brands so far, keep the FW updated for sure, free "cough" options for both brands, really depend of the needs you have, and maybe some differences in / out connections in some casesHdmi would be useful in some instances ...for the Rigol scope ( i have a bkank 1054 i think) vs the Siglent sds 1000x, both 100M to 200Mhz upgrades / probes upgrades too, the Siglent triggering was better than Rigol in faint pulses / events, and Rigol scroll knob menu jumps a lot with he encoder wheel. ?my 2 cents

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 10:38:03 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 28, 2024, 09:19:56 amYou may have misunderstood hwasti's point. Based on my earlier comments, I assume he was mainly referring to the playfulness vs. seriousness of the graphical UI, the arrangement of parameters in a single menu vs. multiple side bars, and the space-efficiency of the screen layout.Siglent and Rigol aim for different trade-offs there, and it will largely be a matter of personal preference which solution one likes better. Driven also by experience with other scopes, and how frequently/routinely one uses the scope and some of its advanced functions.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 10:49:53 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on October 28, 2024, 10:38:03 amNot at all when I know where he's come from.IMO the current Siglent UI will be the best fit with his previous experience plus offer the touch and mouse benefits for speed of use.

author: hwasti
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:43:30 pm
content: My point was that if the scope is sitting on the bench and I am primarily looking at a monitor on the wall, using touch screen menus will be very impractical. To use a touchscreen, you need to be looking at the screen.With the monitor on the wall, everything that one would reasonably want to do during a work session should be doable using knobs and buttons.This does not apply to infrequently done things like setting up the scope. I can stick my nose right up to the scope to be able to see tiny text.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: hwasti on October 28, 2024, 08:43:30 pmCertainly you can but you can find mouse control more efficient.YMMV.