EEVblog #501 - Sinclair C5 Electric Car Teardown & Test Drive - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 11:20:46 pm
content: Dave goes back to the future and takes a 1985 vintage Sinclair C5 electric "car" for a spin, one of only a handful in the country. This was Sir Clive Sinclair's vision for personal transport.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 11:36:20 pm
content: This video is private.Sorry about that.Just to warn you Dave.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:01:09 am
content: I've managed to start watching before it was private. Cool device, but I would be very much afraid to be ran over in this thing

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:51:41 am
content: It's public again

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 01:11:34 am
content: Now you can put a 1000 watt hub motor and 15 pounds of LiPo batteries on a recumbent tadpole trike and go 55mph...still have the issue of getting hedghogged though...

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 02:28:02 am
content: I want one of those! There's just something fascinating about this little vehicle that makes me like it.It's so simple, barebones. It reminds me of an airplane, the Piper J3 Cub:I also want one of thoseThere's something fascinating about their simplicity. The J3 has been in service for 70 years and I am sure this Sinclair car would have been if the time was right and it caught on.

author: CodyShaw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 02:39:30 am
content: I would 100% buy a modern version of this for a couple hundred bucks, especially if it was a viable commuter vehicle.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:02:35 am
content: Quote from: CodyShaw on July 31, 2013, 02:39:30 amYeah me too. And I would prefer a 2 wheel version, sorta like a bike aided with a motor, but I think that already exists. The point is, a vehicle like this gets you rolling, it's much better than the 12 minute walks I sometimes have to do. I have taken 1 hour walks to the electronics market because taxis here follow fixed routes, which is ok, but they place 4 adults in the back seat and 2 in the front plus the driver. I hate it, so I prefer walking. Their practices are totally unsafe and theoretically illegal, but they can control the government cause if they stop working, the half the city does as well.A little vehicle like this should be fun and could be carried in the back of an SUV or small truck as well as practical for many kinds of people. It would be great if they had different variations, by that I mean they could come in tricycle versions, bike versions, even 2 seat buggy versions with different specs on power and speed, different license requirements (the ones that are legally considered bikes will be very appealing).

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:15:01 am
content: 15Kg of lead acid battery? Wow we have come a fair way, 15Kg if lithium would get you something like 150Ah @12-14v depending on chemistry!

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:21:25 am
content: 'oley jeeze is that winter time in Australia? Please tell us this is old footage.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:23:50 am
content: Quote from: Paul Moir on July 31, 2013, 03:21:25 amYep, still winter here.Yes, it's old footage, shot 3 days ago

author: Domokid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:28:53 am
content: Joined just so I could post this photo, It has been on my computer for ages and until this video I had no idea what it was.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:30:50 am
content: The Brits were very big on strange vehicles,like the Bond company,which made some incredibly weird devices.Closer to home,(Oz),does anyone remember the Lightburn Zeta?It was a "real car"-----sort of!The Zeta was made by a washing machine manufacturer,so a lot of the components were not standard car parts.It was driven by a 2 stroke motor----quite a small one,if I remember correctly.The original design came from Eastern Europe------sorry,can't remember where.but the Aussie version had a fibreglass body.(an ugly one!)There was also a Sports version,which looked a bit like a Goggomobil Dart.The Goggos were a much more sophisticated vehicle,though..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 04:47:07 am
content: I've turned on youtube image stabilsation in this video, please tell me what you think.I have to decide whether or not to keep it. I think I have 24 hours to revert back, otherwise I'm stuck with stabilised version.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 05:55:44 am
content: You call that an electric car?THIS is an electric carhttp://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/sls_e-drive/eng.php?lang=eng60 kWh, 400V input552 kW (751 hp) output1 kNm torquenaught to 100 km/h in 3.9s250 km/h top speed (electronically limited)The only question not decided:Will this thing empty your wallet faster when you buy it than it will empty its battery when you drive it at 250 km/h?

author: Tooms
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 06:33:47 am
content: Hithis is much like the Danish "Ellert" that was invented by Steen Volmer Jensen in the beginning of the 1980 and first showed of at a car show 1985, so seems they was out at the same timehttp://translate.google.dk/translate?sl=da&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=da&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fda.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FEllert&act=urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CityEl/Tooms

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:45:48 am
content: The C5 production line along with the manufacturing rights was sold to a Californian company where they made them as executive toys, do they still make them there. I was once tasked with fitting a set of flasher lights to a C5 the lights were the crappiest possible very flimsy and poorly made using festoon bulbs and the kit included a stamped sheet metal tool for drilling the holes in the plastic.

author: Robreeves
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:08:52 pm
content: Here is a link to the Sinclair video mentioned in the teardown

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 03:19:49 pm
content: Great video, but now you've got me wanting an electric bicycle! This relatively inexpensive conversion kit appears to be very popular, but I'm just beginning my research and haven't read any reviews specific to it:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-Kit-24V-36V-48V-250W-500W-700W-800W-1000W-/290754592384?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item43b252fe80

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 04:28:10 pm
content: This one made in China looks a bit more comfortable, less nerdy and the rearview mirrors are standard.Overall dimensions(L*W*H)mm2150×950×1700Wheel base (mm):1450Rear tread (mm):750Motor:72V2000w brushless DCController:72V80ABattery:72V45AH (lead acid)Charger:72V/6.5AMax.speed:65 km/HRange:70 kmClimb ability:25°Front Tire4.00-12Rear Tire:145/70-12Brake:Disk

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 04:30:52 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2013, 04:47:07 amOk in general. Only caused lots of blur on the sped-up part.

author: Pat Pending
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 04:55:20 pm
content: ...and this is what 'Spitting Image' thought of the C5

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 05:02:18 pm
content: omg that video is hilarious. "what is it?" "an invalid car" "but I am not an invalid"...."haven't driven it yet.."

author: opablo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 05:21:09 pm
content: What's with that crappy DMM at 32:51 ?The entire world was invaded by those metersReally good video BTW...

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 06:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: Tooms on July 31, 2013, 06:33:47 amNot really, the Danish version was a motorbike not a bicycle, i.e. more powerful and it was closed.Production was stopped in Denmark long time ago and moved to Germany:http://www.cityel.com/index.php/produkte/der-cityel

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 06:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2013, 04:47:07 amReally weird effect, it is charging the field of view all the time. Stretching the edges/corners. Doesn't work too well with almost stationary shots, in moving scenes didn't notice anything weird. Maybe try Deshaker plugin for Virtualdub instead?

author: sagdahl
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 06:53:24 pm
content: Dave,Nice video. Interesting and relaxed.But you really kill us when we see what the Sydney weather is in the winter.In Sweden we have -5 to -10° and snow during 2-3 months and then rain and 10-15° 6-7 months.Now in the summer we are lucky if we got around 20°C.It is a mystery why anyone want to stay here..../Roger

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:01:00 pm
content: Yeah, but look at the bright side, at least you don't have to worry about skin cancer...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 09:10:50 pm
content: Sydney winter is like Durban, but we do not have the assorted dangerous spiders. A few venomous snakes that is all, and of course the largest production of a certain plant...........Summer will be different though, a lot more humid.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 10:35:32 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on July 31, 2013, 07:45:48 amSo just like every other Sinclair product then... they always cut a few too many corners

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 01:21:09 am
content: A huge shame really, he consistently came down just on the wrong side of the price <> quality trade-off. Just a few extra pennies spent here and there would have made for much better and more reliable products. The ZX80 voltage regulator heat sink was too small and caused it to overheat. They got it pretty much right with the ZX81, but then made the same mistake on the first issue of the ZX Spectrum. All for the sake of a piece of aluminium that should have been a bit bigger, and must have ended up costing them a small fortune in replacement.Micro Men is a surprisingly good film. Even though the disclaimer says it isn't all true and scenes were inserted for dramatic purposes, a lot of the details are spot on. Even the chap they got to play Rick Dickinson, the industrial designer, looks a lot like him. There is a nice cameo near the end, the landlady behind the pub bar is Sophie Wilson, half of the ARM design team.

author: sagdahl
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 05:46:22 am
content: I have to take out my ZX80 from the closet and measure some voltage regulator temperatures.Never had a problem with it.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 06:37:48 am
content: Dear old Clive believed his own publicity & didn't have the patience to handle product failure.For instance,I've never heard of anyone getting his "D class " amplifiers to meet their supposed specs.Sinclair just washed their hands of them & went on to something else.That sounds familiar---maybe Sir Clive is advising the Chinese Electronics industry now!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 07:12:16 am
content: Found the original commercial:

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 07:16:56 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 31, 2013, 10:35:32 pmColo(u)r screen?! Bahh! Who needs that? The ability to see the screen while instructions were running? Luxury!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 07:41:55 am
content: Surprised to see a ULA on the display board; I was expecting something more off-the-shelf, like maybe an LM3914. Perhaps they were cheaper?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 07:44:54 am
content: The C5 might have got a bit of traction if it had been introduced in the 1960s..----it looked like something out of El Cheapo British science fiction of that period.They could have got "Twiggy" or someone to drive one & picked up free publicity.After all that was the time of the "Swinging Sixties" when all sorts of crap appeared,& maybe sold a few items.Anyone remember the "Moulton Bicycle"--it had tiny wheels which were supposed to have some benefits.But the '80s---I don't think so!Many Brits of that time were not sure where their next quid was coming from,let alone forking out 399 of them for a "car",which after you "had a look under the bonnet",looked like something you could put together in your back shed.You could probably have picked up a reasonable old motorbike for that,or an "Old Banger" car!

author: RupertGo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 10:31:10 am
content: Oh man! That's made my day. Let me take you back... back... back...I worked for Sinclair Research in the mid-80s as a snotty-nosed teenaged Z80 programmer. I joined the day the C5 launched and worked initially in Sinclair's London office (a tiny place with just Clive, his secretary, his father and me - it's a long story...). So I came out of work and there outside the office was the C5 that Clive had been driving at the launch event - widely covered on the telly. But, nobody knew what to do with it - it was a Friday afternoon, it wouldn't fit through the doorway into the office and you couldn't just leave it there. So light, someone could have picked it up and walked away with it."I know!" I said. "I'll drive it home and look after it over the weekend!"Clive looked dubious "Are you sure?" he said, "It's rush hour, it's London...""You've just been on the TV telling everyone how safe it is," I said (teenagers, eh?). "What can go wrong?""Errr... OK" he said. What else could he have done?So I drove it from Chelsea to Chiswick through the London rush hour traffic. Got a lot of attention - after all, it'd had been on the TV all day - and it felt really good.Until I got to Hammersmith, about three miles from the office and about two from home, when the battery ran out. The advertised range was not quite working out... peddling it (with no gearbox) all the way home was not nearly as much fun."Yes," said Clive on the Monday. "There may be some bugs to work out..." Can't remember how we got it back - I think by van.Some more background on it: it was designed by a couple of chaps at Milton Hall, home of Sinclair Research's Metalab in Cambridge, in conjunction with various suppliers. The P. Newman who co-authored the Unofficial C5 document is Perran Newman, who became my boss at Sinclair after I moved to Cambridge; we worked together on a few projects, including the Pandora portable Spectrum (yet another story).The "washing machine" motor was in fact a variant of one used for electric torpedoes. The ULA was a typical Sinclair component; the Ferranti ULA in the ZX81 was the first such in any consumer device, and Sinclair had a preference for them over other solutions. It was possible - although I never took part - to put two batteries in series and go very fast indeed, I think the unofficial record was 30 MPH, if you didn't do it for too long. Sinclair engineers were an eccentric bunch, and did things like go jousting in muddy fields in Citroen 2CVs.But so much on it was just too pared back - the nylon gears that stripped, the batteries that were just too wimpy, those brakes... and, yeah, the British weather. There was a sort of cagoule which clipped around the front of the driving space, but that made you look even more like Davros than before.Happy days.But it was a doomed project... now, the C10...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 11:50:35 am
content: Wow, great first hand story, thanks for sharing!

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 12:15:00 pm
content: Man, that thing has so much potential, the main problem i see is how steering is handled; you can solve the nylon gears, the battery, the motor, not being able to see behind you all easily, but how the steering is done, not so much

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 12:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on August 01, 2013, 12:15:00 pmActually, the steering works pretty well (provided you are the right height) and is quite natural. You instantly feel comfortable with it. That is the least of the issues.

author: Slobodan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:45:13 pm
content: Will you be able to make a video with Nissan leaf than?

author: Slobodan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:46:37 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on July 31, 2013, 04:28:10 pmWhat is the price?

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 04:45:58 pm
content: If I were going to take a three wheeler on the road/freeway, I think I would go for this slightly higher performance model:http://spyder.brp.com/spyder-st/overview

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 09:50:54 pm
content: Quote from: KTP on August 01, 2013, 04:45:58 pmNot electric, though.Here's a trike that's supposedly the "epitome of pedal-electric vehicles," the 2012 Pike's Peak Hillclimb pedal-electric champion:Top Speed: 40 mphRange: 165 Miles / 111 Miles (with / without pedaling @ 20 mph)Power: Three selectable modes: Assist (750 Watts), Economy (2100 Watts), Power (4200 Watts)http://www.outriderusa.com/Outrider-USA-422-Alpha-p/transition422alpha.htm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 10:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: Slobodan on August 01, 2013, 02:45:13 pmI am currently in talks with Nissan to get a hold of a LEAF.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 11:14:35 pm
content: So Dave now becomes an electric car reviewerJust don't ruin the car during the teardown

author: SpiderElectronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2013, 09:27:50 am
content: In the 80's Sinclair was big on Z80 based devices.In the Z80 Processor the mnemonic for the op-code C5 was 'PUSH BC' - Could that be an inside joke by the C5 team do you think? (PUSH BC ~ PUSH BICYCLE)Probably not, but it makes me smile.

author: Slobodan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2013, 09:35:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 01, 2013, 10:36:02 pmWhat, sarcasm? Your mate mentioned in the video that he owns a Nissan Leaf, or did I misunderstood?

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2013, 11:18:32 am
content: On the display board what were the yellow strapped components with the resistors? If they were black strapped I'd have assumed zero ohm links.Some odd diode package perhaps?

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2013, 07:31:57 pm
content: This looks like the place to go for info on e-bike hobby adventures:http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/index.phpAnyone have any other good ones?

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2013, 09:43:52 pm
content: Over here velomobiles (with or without e-assist) are becoming quite popular. Mostly without e-assist though, there's no need in our flat as a pancake country. Some are available with e-assist though, the most luxurious is probably theSunrider. Available with 250W or 750W motor (the 750W version is registered as a moped).The guy behindwww.velomobiel.nlalso made a neat motorcycle, showing the importance of aerodynamics:http://www.velomobiel.nl/allert/

author: Spunky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2013, 01:12:13 am
content: I remember when the C5 came out it was before recumbent bicycles so was just too wierd for folks to accept. Also long before it was cool for middle classes to be eco friendly, the only people who wanted a petrol-less vehicle were mostly the ones who didn't have money to buy it. It would probably do a lot better if it was re-released now.Wouldn't be any good where I am though, steep hills everywhere.

author: CJWarlock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 06:48:00 pm
content: I've just found a longer (6 minutes) version of the Sinclair C5 commercial. I thought I'll post it here because I think it is interestig, even in terms of the specific marketing in the 80's for electronic and/or innovative devices.http://youtu.be/l5N937V8ZOw-Sinclair C5 infomercial 1985