PCB design software. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: johndon2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 02:07:10 pm
content: What are the best (free) PCB design packages for beginners (or someone who hasn't used PCB software for 10+ years!)?Also, what are the most common PCB design packages used in industry (and in particular in the UK)? Which free versions are most similar to those used in the workplace?Thanks

author: kozlojak
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 02:12:41 pm
content: I have used kiCad, Eagle, design spark, and dip trace. I liked Dip trace the best, easy to use and free to start out.

author: Tita
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 04:46:55 pm
content: I have been using express pcb for 5 months and i like the softwareit's very simple to use

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 05:09:33 pm
content: I'm using the hobbyist version of Eagle. I've used the free version but the board size was too small for my needs. $150 gets you the commercial standard version but for non-commercial use. If you go into production you pay the difference in price. Goofy UI but it does the job and is supported well by prototype PCB companies.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 11:53:01 pm
content: You can get Altium Designer by the less legal ways. Watch a 15 min getting started video on youtube.And you are set to go.

author: ChrisGreece52
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 12:05:58 am
content: As a beginner i could suggest Eagle its the best i have tried so far and it is simple for even a no brainer to figure out

author: johndon2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 07:12:11 am
content: Thanks guys... I've got a list of the best/ most common free ones...Eagle = most commonDiptrace = bestIMOFreePCBKiCadDesign Sparkexpress PCBIs there a similar list for the professional/ non-free ones?!

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 09:03:35 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/pcbeda-software-list/

author: johndon2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 10:40:13 am
content: Quote from: brabus on June 20, 2013, 09:03:35 amThanks for that, a good list... but not too sure which ones are good or most popular etc...

author: fuffkin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 12:12:47 pm
content: In a recent AMP Hour, the guys interviewed Laen for OSHPark and he said that from what he sees Eagle and KiCAD are neck and neck as the most popular.I think the answer depends on where you want to go with it. KiCAD is free and is gaining in popularity. I would say that Eagle is the encumbant, and has the benefit of libraries and support from all the major Open Source players such as Adafruit and Sparkfun. However, it isn't free if you want larger boards or 4 layers or commercial use (though there is a cheap commercial licence that lets you use the free version commercially).Design Spark is essentially Easy-PC from Number One Systems and is RS attempt to get in on the act. It's totally free, but as far as I can tell isn't gaining much traction. I've used Easy-PC and it's a good package and I can't really see why it hasn't taken off.Commercially, none of these packages is too prevalent in the UK, but I'd say I've seen more acceptance of Eagle than anything else. Also as Eagle and DesignSpark are Farnell and RS respectively, any UK company doing anything electronic will be aware at least of these two packages.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 12:28:47 pm
content: Quote from: johndon2000 on June 20, 2013, 07:12:11 amAltium is the first one that comes to mind, but there's a lot more here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_EDA_software

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 12:44:53 pm
content: Quote from: fuffkin on June 20, 2013, 12:12:47 pmI very much doubt that, us engineers are pretty adept at ignoring marketing fluff.Tools you'd be much more likely to find being used in a professional context would be Orcad / Allegro, PADS, Altium, Protel or Cadstar. Hobby tools like Eagle and Kicad are completely irrelevant and, in my own experience, are never, ever seen in commercial use.

author: johndon2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 12:51:06 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 20, 2013, 12:44:53 pmWhen you say they are irrelevant I guess you just mean they're never used professionally... but they are still relevant for beginners etc?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 12:59:51 pm
content: Sure they are - I meant in a commercial context. They're used by hobbyists, and no doubt do a perfectly good job for the price in that context - but in the commercial world it's like they don't even exist.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 01:40:02 pm
content: It also depends on what you want to design. Even packages like Altium have real PITA limitations for high speed stuff, for which you can spend a lot of time trying to find efficient work arounds. Another thing to consider when deciding on a PCB tool is its ability to export/import other formats

author: Emil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 03:09:04 pm
content: I recently switched from KiCad to Diptrace.Both are nice, but I prefer Diptrace for a few reasons:-Better workflow.-More intuitive user interface.-Better editor for making components.I don't think the popularity of the program you use matters much. Any program will export the Gerber files you need to get your boards made.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 04:20:21 pm
content: I too like using diptrace. The 300pin limit on their free version kinda sucks, but for the most part, it's a good program. It's easy to create new components and add them to a library. Comes with a large library of components and their 3D rendering.The automatic routing feature kinda sucks though. I'm having to place traces myself, because the program just can't do it.

author: ChrisGreece52
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 04:28:58 pm
content: Quote from: Emil on June 20, 2013, 03:09:04 pmIf i am not mistaken Dave mentioned Diptrace in one of his videos right ??

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 04:36:46 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on June 20, 2013, 04:20:21 pmNext time you're going to post such graphic descriptions of pure horror, warn us first! My god, I'm going to have nightmares for the next week!Oh well, back to laying out this PCB.

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 04:38:02 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 20, 2013, 12:44:53 pmYou must have a huge amount of experience to say declaratively that Eagle and Kicad arenever, ever seen in commercial use...Oh wait, I know of at least one company that uses Eagle. I have to admit that I know very little about what software companies use, but I do know enough not to make statements like that.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 04:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on June 20, 2013, 04:20:21 pmThe limit is 500 for non-profitJust email them with"I would like to request a free registration key for the 500pins non-profit license. "They will reply you the code to enter.http://www.diptrace.com/nonprofit.php

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 04:55:24 pm
content: With these pin limited licenses, what is the definition of a pin?Do smt pads count? and what about vias?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 05:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on June 20, 2013, 04:55:24 pmPad counts, not for via.Also the free 500 pins license can be installed at > 1 computers, yes, I did ask for this permission for my desktop and laptop and its granted.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 06:25:14 pm
content: Two categories:1. Software you choose and pay for yourself2. Software someone else chooses and pays for3. Software you stealThe cheap v. Free thing is a false economy unless your time is worthless. What need to be considered more is if the software does what you need done efficiently and whether there is a way to grown beyond your initial requirements.Crippled software, even the free version of Eagle, is for evaluation purposes. It does just enough to allow you to test its function on a small scale before buying the software. It's not designed to be used for actual projects. You can, if your project happens to be trivial but was never the idea.Assuming this is software you are planning to acquire and use yourself, weight the cost in time of trying to cram a project onto a tiny board or a tiny pin count vs the time you would save to just get it done. If you were to throw a project on kickstarter, could you build in the cost of the commercial version upgrade? Probably. What if you wanted to do rev 2 and ran out of room or pins? What if you were successful and wanted to pay a contractor or hire to do your layout? Could they use your software or would they have to start over? What about your libraries? Can you take them with you or is that investment lost if you need to change?Sometimes free is free but not always.Eagle starts at free, goes to $150 and then up to $500 and beyond. The libraries are in XML format and can be easily exported to something else. Newark/element 14 has libraries available for many parts right from their catalog. Because they are text you can use a version control system on them to track changes, store and share your libs on github.Those features made it the obvious choice for me. It's a tool ill use for years and years

author: fuffkin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 07:05:26 pm
content: QuoteandQuoteTo clarify, as a freelance UK engineer, I get emailed daily with the latest jobs and I monitor which CAD packages are requested. Whilst the vast majority are the Orcad, PADS etc there IS the odd one for Eagle. You have to remember that there are plenty of small companies around, which are recruiting from the local talent. With more amateur / semi-pro engineers crossing over into the field it's starting to creep in.Quote from: cthree on June 20, 2013, 06:25:14 pmToo true!

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 10:23:21 pm
content: Quote from: Jon Chandler on June 20, 2013, 04:38:02 pmThere is at least one semi-major defense contractor in the USA who uses Eagle (they may also use others, I'm not saying they only use Eagle). I was surprised. I find that when a company of size uses Eagle, people often do a double take.Nothing wrong with Eagle other than it's limited functionality, stupid interface and some limitations on what you can do, which come into play when you get into more complex boards... but it definitely has a place in the corporate world.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 07:24:09 am
content: QuoteOh, I don't know. Cadsoft's range of licenses has included some very-low-cost options that has worked out pretty well for a bunch of small projects. I don't think they expected that their free/minimal version would be as useful and popular as it has become (matching up reasonably well with the size of "arduino shields" and "seeed studio PCB service", and so on.) But they deserve some credit for retaining those licenses anyway!To say that EAGLE is never used commercially neglects a large segment of "small" commercial businesses.One of the things I like about EAGLE is that the "full" version is something I could afford if I were to decide to take electronics design "seriously" as a consultant or member of a small shop. The "pro" packages seem to start at $10K+, which is ... a lot.KICAD is in its infancy. The same sorts of arguments were made about things like gcc and linux being unsuitable for commercial use, back in their early days...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 08:03:03 am
content: Guys, I did sayin my experiencethe likes of Eagle aren't used commercially. Of course there are a few statistical outliers, but they're very much the exception. Sometimes individual engineers or technicians use their own favourite tool for a little job here and there because it's something they know or have available on their own PCs.Professional grade tools don't have to be outrageously expensive, though of course the more capable variants are. Personally I use Orcad PCB Designer Standard, which is about £2000 and includes schematic and PCB software with no artificial restrictions on board size, layer count or net list. It was a significant capital investment when I started doing consultancy work, of course, but hardly a crippling one.Crucially, as well as allowing me to design boards myself, using this software I can also exchange files with customers and design bureaux who use variants with five or even six figure price tags. It's all the same tool chain, just different licence files, and that upgrade path is another good reason to use more 'grown-up' software. You can start on the bottom rung of a very tall ladder indeed, rather than climb to the top of a stumpy little one and then have to start all over again if you need to climb higher.

author: Josephine85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:13:28 pm
content: Hmm IMO i would start with EAGLE's free version too. The pro tools are not necassary at the beginning and you learn the basics.I also think they offer one of the best supports with loads of tutorials, videos and aEAGLE forum

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: Josephine85 on June 21, 2013, 03:13:28 pmFor a beginner this is true. Being able to ask a question to the community and get a response is important when you've got a lot of questions as you do initially. It will get you up to speed faster.Not everyone uses PCB layout and schematic capture all the time. I use it every couple of months. If you do that sort of work as your mainline job then, yeah, invest in the tools which will make your life easy and give you the widest range of capability. A one man band/hobbyist is going to spend most of their time doing something else like design, proto, software and maybe sales/customer service if a consultant. I think Eagle suits that role well. If I can't do it in Eagle then its time to job it out to a real pro who will use whatever they use.I use Eagle to make early and development prototypes of designs which allow me to use various eval boards for various core components. Most of it is 2 sided with a mix of through hole and SMD, connectors mostly for connecting the various eval boards together both to test the designs and to write software and demo the design while a real pro does the actual layout of the production PCB. Obviously that assumes project approval and funding.When a design gets the green light from whoever is paying for it then I hand my schematics over to a pro in eagle format and they do what needs to be done including any FCC or CE or ISO conformance stuff per spec.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2013, 07:43:27 pm
content: Why do you feel that way about Orcad? Is there something specific you dislike about it, or did you just not get on with it generally?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 08:02:52 am
content: I agree in a few cases, but most of the things you've mentioned were fixed ages ago.The latest version is 16.6, and I'd definitely recommend getting a demo. You can download a 'lite' version from the Cadence web site.I use Orcad every day professionally, and it's one of those tools that I find I can just pick up and use to get the job done without having to think too hard about it. I wouldn't seek to try and defend every one of its quirks, because it does certainly have room for improvement, and one or two of the comments you've made are still valid - but it's odd to hear a tool that does a good job described as 'terrible, avoid at all costs'.

author: Köcki
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 26, 2013, 02:32:32 pm
content: i would recommend the free version ofEAGLEin my eyes the best pcb design software for beginners, and it is for free

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2013, 05:43:56 pm
content: I used Altium many years ago when I did my apprenticeship and is probably the best out there but it's expensive and overkill for hobby use.I've also used a p1r8 version of Eagle, it's powerful but the UI is awkward.My favourite for hobby use is KiCad

author: mianchen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2013, 06:10:59 pm
content: Upverter anyone?

author: davidleverett30
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2013, 08:35:58 pm
content: I`ve found Upverter great for doing fast prototypes.I am currently installing EAGLE..What is the "stardard" software used in the industry??What is the most commen software used by hobbyists?

author: frankhs
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 05:06:59 am
content: I'm a big fan of Dip Trace. It is free up to 300 pins. When I first started they would give you a free upgrade to 500 pins just for emailing them. I don't know if they are still offering that. You can make a fairly complex schematic with 300 pins and you can divide your project into multiple files if the 300 pin limit is not enough.I started with eagle and found it very awkward to use. When I switched to dip Trace, I was amazed at how intuitive it was.http://diptrace.com/download-diptrace/