Safety Requirements around the World - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:10:03 am
content: Boy I know this is opening a can of worms but...I did a video on building a starter home electronics lab and in the hour plus I tried to cover all the bases. One of the bases I covered, safety, is one that I've never seen before and I find that quite surprising. I do realize there are huge liability concerns that probably stop people from even uttering the word, but that doesn't eliminate through omission the actual safety issues.In my video I addressed the safety issue from the perspective of someone that's been in the tech industry in the USA for more than 30 years and it's through my experience in industry that I've taken the requisite safety classes and in the USA the basic course, which pretty much every single engineer and technician that might have to work on something is required to take, is the OSHA 10 (10 hour safety training course, usually online). At most tech sites you will be required to have a current OSHA 10 and you will also need to take all the site specific safety classes in addition to OSHA 10 -- you will not be allowed to touch anything without it.So, while there are liability concerns when discussing safety I basically recommended that folks take the OSHA 10 online class and in effect, that offloads the liability from me as I'm not giving specific recommendations but rather pointing to a more authoritative source.While my video covered safety in this manor it was not really something that would apply 100% everywhere around the world and so I'd like to know what the equivalent safety standards and certifications are in other parts of the world. What, for example, would the equivalent certificate be in England, in Australia, the EU (presumably all the EU has a single standard -- or does it?).Rather than quote me specific safety standards for doing this that and the other what are the requirements folks in other parts of the world must comply with to work in industry as a technician or engineer? What then is your version of OSHA 10?Brian

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:13:08 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on October 02, 2016, 04:10:03 amLink ?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:30:02 am
content: Well if it's a home electronics lab, it's not bound by WH&S/OH&S etc... At least it certainly wouldn't be here.Honestly, let's not get too nuts about Workplace Health and Safety. Hours upon hours upon hours per month are wasted with this crap. Implementing useless policies which don't contribute to or enhance worked safety at all. It's just an exercise in bullshit.Tag and Testing is a prime example. Apart from visually inspecting a lead and ensuring continuity to ground, electrical tag and testing is a waste of time and money. At work, we recently had everything 'tagged and tested' (don't ask how much that cost), a week later, one of manager's offices almost burnt down because of a fault in a Motorola radio charger (and those are very well made).Another ridiculous example: NSW Fire & Rescue is required to have evacuation drills and have smoke alarms tested in their own fire stations, oh but they aren't allowed to test their smoke alarms themselves, despite them basically being subject matter experts. No, they have to pay for an external contractor to do it for them.Yet another example: Our Policing and other emergency services organisations in Australia are bound by the Work Health and Safety Act because they are considered "workplaces". Sure there is some merit to this, but among all, the act states that emergency workers can refuse or cease to carry out "unsafe" work. The exact wording is:A worker may cease, or refuse to carry out, work if the worker has a reasonable concern that to carry out the work would expose the worker to a serious risk to the worker’s health or safety, emanating from an immediate or imminent exposure to a hazard.What on earth do you think emergency services are there for!? They run in to the danger while everyone else runs out.I'm sorry, I might sound cynical but I've sat in enough of these meetings to know they are just bullshit. Common sense should be the law.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:39:34 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 02, 2016, 04:30:02 amI had to change the dud fluorescent tubes in a Fire Station once because the Firemen/women aren't allowed to climb ladders.When I questioned this they said they are only allowed to climb ladders in an emergency.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:48:07 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on October 02, 2016, 04:39:34 amYep. I can tell you another story. Fire poles (those things that you slide down to get to the truck/pumper on ground level from the second or third floor -- you know, like what you'd find in a children's playground) are back! Yes, apparently fire fighters can't be trusted to use stairs when responding to an emergency, so new stations have both stairs and poles installed.But you can't use the pole until you've undertaken a training course.I think the most ludicrous example I've ever faced was as a contractor for Nestle (not sure what the go is now, but their IT contractors back then were employed by Optus). At Nestle (in their Rhodes, NSW office), they actually handed out yellow and red cards to their employees (including contractors) for breaching "safety policies". Among them, you weren't allowed to talk on the phone and walk at the same time (you had to remain stationary) and you must have one hand on the handrail at all times when walking down stairs.Honestly, you can't make this shit up!I mean don't get me wrong, I'm all for common sense decision making and standards surrounding dangerous items (involving electricity, dangerous substances etc...) but seriously!?

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:49:36 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 02, 2016, 04:13:08 amYeah, sorry about that, should have included the link...Safety related stuff begins at 38:20Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 05:06:04 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 02, 2016, 04:48:07 amYes, some of these safety rules, much of them site specific, can be a little much. I was gigged at Intel once for walking down the stairs without a hand on the handrail.Ladders are a particularly interesting issue as they are involved in a great many incidents that result in injury and on occasion death. I can not imagine being in the ladder making business and with just about every square inch covered by one warning label or another it just become so much noise. The labels are there to protect the company (liability), not the worker.OTH, there are very real safety related issues particularly with respect to electricity. I saw a video once that was among the most painful things to watch I've ever seen. A guy, working on 120VAC, get's shocked and could not let go -- as I recall he did not die but did become a vegetable. Most of the stuff we home hobbyists work on is generally towards the lower end of the risk spectrum, but if it has AC mains then it is potentially lethal.Again, my reason for posing the question was to understand how the rules are in other parts of the world may be different.In my video I recommended that folks take the OSHA 10 class even though we as hobbyists are not governed by the same rules that commercial industry is. I've seen guys do things out of ignorance of the hazards that would scare the crap out of you and having a basic understanding of the risks and how to respond to them is, or should be, common sense.One of the interesting things with BREXIT is just how the UK will be effected by safety rules. My guess is there will be some changes but probably not a wholesale change.Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 05:20:18 am
content: And another word on ladders...Brian

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 05:39:20 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 02, 2016, 05:34:33 amYou're right. I don't know what the answer is, but a "one size fits all" approach is not it.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 06:04:51 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 02, 2016, 04:48:07 amI think this one depends on the staircase.They can be steeper than normal, slippery when wet or longer.It's a bit of a sore point with me, because we once had a visitor fall down some stairs. Luckily no major damage.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 06:16:45 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 02, 2016, 05:39:20 amSome comedy from that end of it:Employees keep using floor boxes with mains outlets in them inappropriately, causing fires etc. OHS person says we have to do more training and add more work methods (instructions). Employees continue to ignore the simple instructions that were already printed on the lids and cause more fires so the boxes are disconnected. Every level of management say there were never any fires and jumps up and down saying its inconvenient to use the power points on the walls and they need the floor boxes reconnected.What do you do?A large site has many rules and applies the same electrical work rules to electronics, one of the rules: No Live Working. Result is all work on electronics is required to be done while the power is isolated (not just disconnected).What do you do?Employees demand to use equipment with the protective earths disconnected to reduce mains hum, but don't maintain any other technical or safety earths. I saw an employee plug a laptop into the unearthed sockets and then sit on a chair with the laptop on their lap. Management says operations are more important than safety and no-ones ever been killed so ignore it.What do you do?A new set of labs including sealed environmental and EMC chambers is installed with piped asphyxiant gasses into each of them, safety officer and management say they don't see a problem.What do you do?Work places are ridiculously safe in Australia, compare to say the road toll:http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/swa/statistics/work-related-fatalities/pages/worker-fatalitieshttps://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/road_deaths_australia_monthly_bulletins.aspxSo should we continue making work places safer? Or does road transport killing 5 times more people need a serious shakeup despite already being world class?Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on October 02, 2016, 06:04:51 amBig companies do this at many different levels, rather than trust judgement of the employees a blanket rule is enforced. So instead of considering which stairs are dangerous like say open sided catwalks spanning two stories on an industrial plant its applied to everything including the 2 carpeted steps up to the lobby.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 01:23:21 pm
content: One of the problems is that there is no agreement on what "safe enough" is. So even though the increment of safety from using the handrail on the two carpeted steps in the lobby is tiny, it is positive and someone will argue that it is worth it.When someone argues that the costs of safety training exceeds the value, they immediately run into non-numerical arguments about the value of human life and happiness.As technicians and engineers we love the world of equations and definitions. The world of safety is only loosely served by those.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 01:56:52 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on October 02, 2016, 06:16:45 amPlace I worked at part time in college there were a group of employees who complained about the chemicals in the (food safe) cleaner then proceeded to walk outside and smoke.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 02:05:33 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on October 02, 2016, 04:10:03 amHaving worked in several labs in the US over the years, I'd like to know what OSHA10 is? I've always been required to pass a few short courses before having unescorted access, on-line ones in recent years. However, these have always been company specific courses, and they didn't take as long as 10 hours. As well as safety courses, most companies also require you to take a short course on other aspects of lab use, such as static control.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 03:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on October 02, 2016, 04:10:03 amI watched your video. Was surprised you went after Mr Carlson's Lab at 44:30. I don't subscribe to him and am not a fan boy but it's clear he actually uses his equipment to advance his hobby. It's really not a big deal to open your wallet and buy what ever equipment you want (assuming you can afford it). Having your scope showing a non-stop sweep from the signal generator and talking about what you bought would be alright but when your most technical video is playing with a strip of LEDs, I question why you would need the equipment you have. My advice is step up your game before throwing stones at the people actually doing something with their equipment beyond just buying it.The safety side of things, your video is about the home hobbyist. I am capable of making my own choices when it comes to safety in my own lab. If you really want to try and help the electronic hobbyist practice their art more safely, maybe just do some videos with some basic guidelines.It appears the OSHA 10 on-line course is about $60.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:16:27 pm
content: I could find no sources for the OSHA course under $79. Other than the OPs testimonial I can't find any meaningful assessment of the value for hobby applications. Obviously if it is required for employment $79 is well worth it.I do find it interesting that the US government, the creator of the OSHA safety standards does not make this material freely available. So our tax dollars have created a profit making enterprise for a variety of agencies. Not just an opportunity, but by creating at least an implicit need for the certification have made it a money pump.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:30:17 pm
content: Companies with deep pockets are vulnerable to lawsuits (both serious and nuisance) unless they can demonstrate reasonable safety training, precautions, etc. I work at one of the companies cited in this discussion and I can tell you that ergonomic injuries from keyboard/mouse use is probably at the the top of the list of lost-work cases, and falling down stairs while doing something stupid is probably a close second. Even "ground-level fall" is a significant category.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 06:28:35 pm
content: Slips, trips and falls are the number one injury at work, generally followed by manual handling issues, with everything else a long way back, serious electrical injuries are so rare they still make the news.Stuff that is obviously dangerous (To those doing it) tends to get respect, work at height, work on the medium voltage lines tend to get respect, falling off the loading dock or slipping on some spilt water, not so much.I do have an issue with many of the youtube videos (especially in chemistry of the pyro sort) because even when they do it right, they often fail to explain things like non sparking tools, and non fragmenting mixing containers, obvious to anyone with experience, but those guys are not learning from youtube videos.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 10:57:30 pm
content: Safety? What is that? Voltamort is confused...But seriously...

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 03:28:56 am
content: Quote from: coppice on October 02, 2016, 02:05:33 pmI don't know that there would be any difference with labs versus a production environment, but in my 30+ years in the semiconductor industry I've seen the requirements evolve from minimal onsite classes to a more rigorous baseline requirement of OSHA 10 as well as specific additional classes at each and every site. So, for the better part of the last 15 years or so every FAB I've been to required OSHA 10 as the baseline, in that time I've probably been to about 25 FAB's from Ti, Intel, Micron, IMFT, ST, Quimonda, Solindra (yes, that Solindra), and Global Foundries.Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 03:33:55 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 02, 2016, 03:57:16 pmI like Mr Carlson, not sure why you think I was "going after him". My point relative to him was to highlight that while my lab is at the beginner end of serious electronic hobbyists that there are folks with a much greater investment such as Mr Carlson. I think he does some really cool things and enjoy his channel a great deal. I was further surprised by his hot rod.And, as I mention in the video the "requirements" for home hobbyists is not the same as industry, I mention that several times in fact, but that there are risks and knowing a bit more about them is not a bad idea just as having a fire extinguisher isn't a bad idea.Brian

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 03:41:23 am
content: true fact - china lacks safety requirements in their own country.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 04:07:50 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 02, 2016, 04:16:27 pmYes, I think such safety training classes should be made freely available so that more people can benefit from them.I mentioned in my video that only about a third of the OSHA 10 class deals with electrical safety but that there is information of value beyond electrical safety. We as hobbyists are not bound by the same requirements of industry, but if something were to happen and someone was hurt or killed you can bet your insurance company would like to know if you had some training.I didn't bring the safety issue up to appease the lawyers out there but to provide a place where someone new getting into electronics might get a background in the safety aspects of working with electricity. Like most people I've had a few 'shocking' experiences over the years and I was once carted off to the hospital because of it. While working for a now defunked California based semiconductor equipment company, SVG (Silicon Valley Group) at a FAB in New York which at the time was owned by Phillips, I was testing out an 8-channel heater controller that used two pin twist lock connectors for delivery of the 115VAC power to the heat blankets. There was problems with a few of the channels and when I disconnected the plug to one of them I was shocked when the supply side of the connector, which should have been a female connector, was instead male so the live pins were exposed. At the ER the doctors told me they could see something in me EKG that suggested I'd been affected.After I returned to work I powered everything off, removed the control panel, blankets and cables and went through the unit -- it was and absolute mess. They had the neutral going through the crydom SSR while the hots were going, unswitched, straight to the blankets. Not all of them, of course, but about half were wired that way. Similarly the power cables, which should have had the supply side of the connector be female and the receive side male were about 50% backwards. I had turned off the main power switch on the box before trying to disconnect the connector but the hot wires were unswitched so no matter what position the power switch was in the pins were live. The equipment was produced in Anaheim California with the assembly being done by mostly non-English speaking Mexicans (please, no race talk here, just stating the fact) and after assembly they were tested by a group of mostly Vietnamese techs. So, my guess is they didn't think to provide much guidance on the assembly of the heater control system and left it up to the assembly team to do it as they saw fit -- but do it quickly of course.The upshot of this was quite unpleasant for my company and the delay this problem caused resulted in penalties for failure to deliver on time.Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 04:17:01 am
content: Quote from: System Error Message on October 03, 2016, 03:41:23 amI don't think it's the case that they lack safety requirements, it's more that they tolerate non-compliance. The same could be said for environmental controls -- I'm pretty sure there are regulations on the books but they tolerate non-compliance to gain a cost advantage. Remember, the cost equation involves more than labor. China has decided they will tolerate dirty air and water and dangerous workplaces in order to garner control of global manufacturing ... this is a strategic decision and they have billions of people so losing a few tens of thousands of workers a year isn't a big deal. With all our rules we still lose hundreds a year to workplace incidents. A couple years ago, while working at Global Foundries in upstate NY, a worker was killed while maneuvering an air handler. He was crushed by it.Brian

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 04:36:22 am
content: I agree, it would be useful to have a booklet or other pamphlet on electrical safety for hobbyists. Having been through many safety courses in my working years I don't find spending $79 on a random course compelling. Some I have taken were useful, others had some good moments and others were worse than useless.If you search OSHA for electrical safety information you come up with such gems as the OSHA electrical safety quick sheet, which has such deep knowledge as "Don't touch downed power lines" and "Don't repair electrical cables unless authorized and certified"Clearly not the right mind set for hobby safety. Hobby people rightly ignore the "No user serviceable parts inside." warning found on most US consumer gear (and on quite a bit of non-consumer gear).Safety is important, and it shouldn't be left to the lawyers and insurance companies and for the most part the bureaucrats. Those people, along with a little cultural misunderstanding, are why you find almost everything from sponges to grinders with a note to always wear safety glasses when using this product. And why the wood trim I just purchased at the local home improvement center has the warning label (for the State of California) "Warning. Wood contains chemicals which have been known to cause cancer."

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 09:35:57 am
content: A problem with blanket safety rules is it loses differentiation between different levels of hazard.When I was working at a large site a while ago, you were not allowed to use stairs while using a phone, or carrying a cup of coffee.It's basically about ass-covering, and seems to get worse as the scale of the site increases, as the budget can stand the loss of productivity caused by excessive and unnecessary safety rules.Until they suddenly realise they're not going to finish on time, when everything goes out the window. A few years ago on a huge retail developement in London, a week or so before it absolutely had to open, safety rules started to be overridden by pressure to complete. Somebody died - they were standing on the top edge of a cherry picker basket and their foot jammed the "up" lever.

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 11:45:19 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 03, 2016, 04:36:22 amThe New Zealand gov publishes the following documents regarding owner servicing of appliances and building wiring:https://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legislation-policy/electricity-act-regulations-codes/standards-and-codes-of-practice/NZECP%2050%202004%20New%20Zealand%20Electrical%20Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Repair%20and%20Maintenance%20of%20Domestic%20Electrical%20Appliances%20by%20the%20Owner%20of%20the%20Appliance%20%20-%20Published%2027%20July%202004%20.pdf(yeah, it's really basic, and doesn't cover "electronic" appliances like switchmode power supplies)https://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/legislation-policy/electricity-act-regulations-codes/standards-and-codes-of-practice/NZECP%2051%202004%20New%20Zealand%20Electrical%20Code%20of%20Practice%20for%20Homeowner%20Occupiers%20Electrical%20Wiring%20Work%20in%20Domestic%20Installations%20%20-%20Published%2027%20July%202004%20.pdfThe electricity in homes here is 230V L-N, 50 Hz AC, neutral bonded to earth (TN system), some homes have two phase (460V L-L 180 degrees apart or 400V L-L 120 degrees apart) or three phase (400V L-L). Your country may be different...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 06:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: zl2wrw on October 03, 2016, 11:45:19 amInteresting. The documents are better than any US equivalents I found, but in common with the old US Mil Standards contains a lengthy combination of boiler plate, legal requirements and useful information. In general these documents are strong on what, but weak on why. Makes it harder to generalize safety practices to a new situation not covered in the document.Some of the takeaways I got from these documents are:It is illegal to use 110V apparatus in your country. Even with a step down transformer. OK.It is illegal for non licensed people to do work on ANY electronic device (television, radio, stereo and computer are explicitly referenced). Must really limit hobby work in your country.You can't sell (or presumably give away) anything you worked on. Ever. The dumps must be full of perfectly good stuff that was owner repaired.All in all you should be safer if you follow these documents/regulations. I don't know if you are better off. Seems a little heavy handed to forbid you to work on your own stereo. I suspect this rule may get ignored from time to time.Here in the US there are few if any rules on re-sale of homeowner work. In most places you are required to notify the buyer of any defects when you sell a house, but just doing your own work in most places is not considered a defect.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 06:47:40 pm
content: Safety ... is a good thing, but with respect to electricity, electrical shock and other related dangers - did you notice that statistics are telling completely different story !? In entire U.S.A. (I selected USA here because they have better quality stats) there were only like 260 deaths by electrocution and ~60 of those at home in 2010. For 400M population that is negligible number and that includes people who decided to blow up "demons in lava lamp" by cooking them inside microwave, usually under influence.Every year in the U.S., more than 2,600 people are killed in home fires.32,675 people killed in car accidents. (2014)...I am always surprised how INSANELY EXTREMELY DIS PROPORTIONALLY popular this subject is on THIS FORUM. Maybe it is just me who have objectivity in my hierarchy of needs?

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 07:06:17 pm
content: Yes, statistically it's barely a blip on the radar, but there is a whole culture in this country that says one death is one too many, even if it was caused by sheer stupidity, and as such we NEED MORE LAWS. Things low on the "leading causes of death" list often get very disproportionate levels of attention. Some people just don't get that is you reduce the death rate of something that kills 20,000 people annually by 10%, you've saved a lot more lives than if you reduce the rate of death by 10% for something that kills 100 people annually. And of course, anyone pointing such things out either "doesn't care" about <some demographic> or else is simply a racist.Yes, there are plenty of things messed up around here. It's partly why our choice for President has come down to a lying, cheating, politics as usual woman who thinks everyone should vote for her just because she's a woman, and a blowhard nutcase who isn't afraid to speak his mind but is completely unsuited for the office.Flying Spaghetti Monster help us all!

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 10:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: zl2wrw on October 03, 2016, 11:45:19 amNot quite.In Australia, New Zealand, India and Israel the TN-C-S system is in use; however, the wiring rules currently state that, in addition, each customer must provide a separate connection to earth via both a water pipe bond (if metallic water pipes enter the consumer's premises) and a dedicated earth electrode. In Australia and New Zealand this is called the Multiple Earthed Neutral Link or MEN Link. This MEN Link is removable for installation testing purposes, but is connected during use by either a locking system (locknuts for instance) or two or more screws. In the MEN system, the integrity of the Neutral is paramount. ... The protective earth and neutral conductors are combined until the consumer's neutral link (located on the customer's side of the electricity meter's neutral connection) - beyond this point, the protective earth and neutral conductors are separate.from Wikipedia but I'm sure its right.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 11:11:05 pm
content: There is a line between Corporate ass covering and best practice.Like the correct way to lift a box is obvious to most people who have ever had to lift one, but new generations either lack the experience or are (controversially) as dumb as a bag of rocks.I'm really interested in an experts take on best practice, but I'm not interested in a Jobsworth's consumption of precious oxygen.I haven't held a hand rail in 45 years, and will continue to not do so until the entire world starts washing its hands after wiping its arse.

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 06:09:35 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on October 03, 2016, 10:35:39 pmYes, though from the perspective ofappliances, all TN systems look very similar (fixed wiring is a very different story however).Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 03, 2016, 06:05:20 pmYep, lawyers shall inherit the earth.As far as the law here is concerned, what actually matters is the Act, Regulations and Standards cited eg:http://www.legislation.co.nz/act/public/1992/0122/latest/DLM282873.htmlhttp://www.legislation.co.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763716.htmlVery few people here repair stuff anymore - most of the old TV repair businesses have shut up shop, and lots of outdated but still functional stuff gets sent to the dump...

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 12:01:53 pm
content: We need a restricted electrical certificate here to work on high voltage (I think in theory, above 50VAC). Note that there is no distinction made for 'in the privacy of your home' work. These penalties also apply to any work carried out on mains connected appliances.I just recently received this "information bulletin" via email..."Unsafe electrical work will not go unpunished:Recent prosecutions in Queensland’s Industrial Magistrates Court serve as a powerful reminder to those putting lives at risk by not working within the law.In one case, a laundry business was fined $5000 after a worker was burned when he contacted the live wires of a rigged up series test lamp. The business owner had wired the lamp to the 240 volt AC terminals of a washing machine drain solenoid to see why the machine was not draining properly. Despite being instructed not to reconnect the device, the owner later did so, once again exposing employees to electrical risk.In another instance, an individual was fined $7500 for performing electrical work without a licence. He completed several electrical tasks for a friend of a friend for $300, but the homeowner became suspicious and reported his work to the Electrical Safety Office. Under investigation, he admitted he performed the work without a licence, despite two previously issued infringement notices for unlicensed electrical work.In a third case, a company was fined $125,000 after a worker was fatally electrocuted. Two workers were removing and installing advertising skins (billboard advertising) from an elevated platform. One of the workers was electrocuted when the 6.5 metre uninsulated metal pole he was using contacted live powerlines. The business owner had a safety system in place at the time, however had failed to properly record the proximity of powerlines or establish exclusion zones.People can request that the Electrical Safety Office commences a prosecution if they believe a category 1 or 2 offence of electrical safety laws has occurred, and a prosecution hasn’t commenced between 6 and 12 months of the offence occurring.Category 1 offences are the most serious breaches where a duty holder recklessly endangers a person’s safety, risking serious injury or death. Maximum penalties for companies are up to $3 million; for individuals as PCBUs or officers up to $600,000 / five years in jail; and workers up to $300,000 / five years in jail.Category 2 offences are where a person fails to comply with an electrical safety duty that exposes someone to a risk of death or serious injury. Maximum penalties for companies are up to $1.5 million; for individuals as PCBUs or officers up to $300,000; and workers up to $150,000.On the spot fines, called infringement notices, may also be issued for electrical safety offences such as performing unlicensed electrical work, failing to test electrical work or failing to ensure electrical equipment is de-energised before carrying out electrical work.Electrical Safety Office1300 362 128electricalsafety.qld.gov.au"

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 11:21:37 pm
content: Quote from: aargee on October 04, 2016, 12:01:53 pmThere is the golden nugget, if they don't differentiate between electrical and electronic work then they need to at least differentiate on something like the measurement categories:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_categoryTrying to work on electronic equipment when you can't have it energised under threat of a fine is bonkers.

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 06:15:40 am
content: Quote from: aargee on October 04, 2016, 12:01:53 pmHave they ever prosecuted an unlicensed person for repairing (or manufacturing) their own appliances, in a safe manner, which are only for personal (and not business) use?So, is it "aiding and abetting the commission of a criminal offence" to sell mains powered kits to people in Queensland?Is it illegal for someone in Queensland to build one for their own personal use?eghttps://www.jaycar.com.au/pir-controlled-mains-power-switch/p/KC5455to be fair, I'll make an example of a competitor's kit too:http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k5165-ultra-low-distortion-mk.3-135w-stereo-amplifier-kit/

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 11:54:55 am
content: Quote from: zl2wrw on October 05, 2016, 06:15:40 amIn theory, yes, if you build the kit without having a restricted electrical license. But the distance between theory and reality can be long, unless someone gets injured or the coroner gets involved.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 12:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: aargee on October 04, 2016, 12:01:53 pmBut Dave publishes videos of himself breaking this law regularly, and 10s of thousands of us watch him doing it. Can we expect a video of Dave being issued an "on the spot fine"?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 11:20:27 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on October 05, 2016, 12:16:50 pmDave is in NSW, not QLD. You can see a breakdown of the different states rules here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/wanting-to-get-into-solar-think-hot-water/msg978162/#msg978162

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 11:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 05, 2016, 12:33:01 pmMy latest project with a plug is held together with cardboard and sticky putty (the bottom is wood). Common sense says don't pull the carboard off and stick fingers inside.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2016, 11:42:12 am
content: Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2016, 11:20:27 pmIf QLD was like NY (city) here they would be sending Dave fines for 'distributing instructions on law breaking activities"

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2016, 12:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on October 02, 2016, 04:10:03 amHere in Finland(part of EU) I think "työturvallisuuskurssi" is the equivalent to your "OSHA10"1-day extremely boring course telling that you are not allowed to do anythingBesides that I have "hot works certificate-card", "electrical safety-card" "first aid -card" and "cleanroom pass-card"Solid 8 days of wasted timeMost of them need to be renewed every 2-3 years.Luckily I dont need yet! "roadworks safety card", "roof hotworks card" or some yet another safety card management course.