Does anyone here use E ink / e-Paper tablets for their daily writing tasks? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 04:54:43 am
content: I've been considering a tablet to replace my current pen, notepad and many post-it notes. I prefer to handwrite notes as opposed to type them using a keyboard, particularly in meetings or where I just need to make a quick list. I'd like a device that mimics the tactile feel of traditional pen and paper (no smooth glass displays) and has long battery life (this is where E Ink has the advantage). I don't need anything as full blown as an Android or Apple tablet (although email, Microsoft Teams and calendar functionality would be nice, but not a deal-breaker).I was considering the BOOX Note Air 2, as it ticks a lot of boxes, however I'm disappointed to find out (not surprisingly) that being a Chinese company, the device constantly "phones home" and communicates with servers belonging to Tencent. Additionally the manufacturer continues to violate GPL2 license by refusing to release source code for their modified version of the kernel. That alone rings too many alarm bells for me and I'm not prepared to risk having information leak without my knowledge/consent. Using it offline is not an option (some of the applications even require internet connectivity to work). These security risks rule out any BOOX/Onyx tablet for me.Two of the others on my short list are the reMarkable2 and the Supernote A5 X. Hardware-wise, the reMarkable is a nice device, however the software lets it down. In order to get the best out of an already limited feature set, you need to pay a monthly subscription fee, which I'm not prepared to pay.Just curious what others are using?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 05:06:42 am
content: For me, it's usually pen and paper. If I need something (brief) time-stamped, I just send myself a SMS. If I'm sitting at my computer, Imightbe tempted to type something - if it needs to be recorded for posterity....but my life these days has far less need for a formal solution. Meetings are few and far between.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 06:47:32 am
content: I can talk faster than I can type....so I often use either a portable voice recorder or my mobile phone for taking notes on the go. I've also been known to talk faster than I can think which often gets me into trouble.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 07:03:34 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on July 18, 2022, 06:47:32 amI spend long enough in meetings listening to be people crap on needlessly. I just need the short version ;-)

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 07:30:48 am
content: I have been using a reMarkable 2 for 1.5 years now. Got it before they introduced their subscription scheme, so I have the cloud services for free; and my company paid for it, so the steep price tag did not affect me personally. (No pen included in the standard price, and the nice pen costs 129 Euro -- really?!) I would not buy one for personal use, although I like writing on it:The feel when writing is very nice. The surface is textured just right, and the replaceable pen tips actually wear off (slowly; they last 2..3 months for me) for a pencil-like feel. They have figured out the control of the e-Ink display surprisingly well; writing and erasing work in real time and feel quite natural. The ability to create virtual notebooks and group them in folders is nice to keep things organized, and the choice of many different page templates (lines, grids, lists...) is neat.Progress on the software has been quite slow; I assume the software team is just a few people. You can read thesoftware release notesto get an idea of the small steps they take. There is no useable handwriting recognition -- you can request "on demand" recognition of a single page at a time to have it emailed to someone. The recognition performance is poor. Not just for my handwriting, I assume; there must be a reason why they don't offer OCR in the background for all pages...I am also concerned about reMarkable's long-term perspective as a company. It is essentially a single-product company, the product does not seem to be taking off like crazy, and there are various low-cost competitors from China. (Although they probably don't work as well.) It is reassuring to know that I could still pull my notes off the tablet via a local USB connection, even if they pull the plug on their server...Two colleagues of mine use regular iPads for note-taking. One of them feels comfortable writing on the glossy screen, the other uses a matte adhesive foil for a better writing feel. If Remarkable keels over at some point and/or I need to replace my current device, that's probably what I would get. Not as optimized for handwriting, and with a shorter battery life -- but a lot of extra functionality, and a safer bet regarding long-term support.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 10:34:53 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 18, 2022, 07:30:48 amMy boss is using the remakable, seems to like it. Honestly, if the hardware wouldn't cost 600 EUR, maybe I would even consider buying it. Since it's a gadget, its one of those things that I would spend money on, without considering thigs. But damn, 600 EUR, and the subscription is like 6 EUR a month? I get amazon prime for 6 EUR, with movies and free shipping. You guys are drunk.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 03:03:43 pm
content: I use a Boox Note Air (original) for some stuff. I find it useful for being able to archive notes and access them anywhere - write on the Boox, read on the PC or phone, and vice versa. My previous paper notebook I scanned and then synced with the Boox, so there is old reference stuff too. IMO, the ability to back up the data is a big plus.But... I miss colour. Sometimes I used red and blue pens to highlight stuff, and you can do that on the Boox but it shows as either black still or some laggy halftone (but is the right colour when seen on a colour device). I might take a screenshot of a scope, print that and glue it into a notebook and it will look good. I can do the same to the Boox but it's greyscale and the effort seems almost more than the printing and gluing! Perhaps it's the lack of colour at the end that alters the work to payoff balance.However, I can send screenshot to the Boox and then draw and write on it. I can do that with the printout in a notebook, but I only have one chance to get it right. On balance I think the Boox outweighs the notebook (at least, I haven't gone back). I imagined it would also prevent the scribbling on lots of scraps of paper, but that hasn't happened yet.Mostly I keep WiFi off, so there is no chat between the Boox and its masters. I turn it on for syncing, obvs., but I use Nextcloud as the sync server and a common Android client for the front end. There is nothing dependent on the cloud, and while there may be some background chatting under the radar to foreign parts it's a very small window for that to occur. In fact, the only reason I haven't thought about just blocking it at the firewall is for the firmware updates check. Of course, this is the version 1 and the new version may be different.I have sometimes wondered about using an iPad instead (the videos I've seen of one in action show it is very slick and colourful) but I prefer epaper for this kind of thing. A benefit of the Note Air for me (and also a downside) is the glass front - I am not a fan of the plasticy alternatives, and the glass gives you a flat facade (the plastic ones have a dip in which the screen resides). Applying a screen protector is a lot simpler give that - it doesn't have to be the size of the active screen, just needs to be symmetrical (for looks).Why a screen protector on a glass screen? I use one solely for the feel. The glass is a bit slippery so feels like writing on glass. The correct protector makes it feel like writing on paper.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 03:07:27 pm
content: https://eu.livescribe.com/collections/smartpenshttps://at-aust.org/items/9718

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 03:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: MT on July 18, 2022, 03:07:27 pmThat one would not really be an alternative for me. It physically writes on paper, and digitizes your scribbles at the same time, right?I actually prefer writing on the reMarkable screen for note-taking. You can erase easily and as often as you like, and can frame and drag sections of the text around (also to the next page or to a different notebook). I use both functions often to restructure my notes on the fly. And the ability to have multiple virtual notebooks with me at all times, with different page rulings if I like, helps me to keep things organized.For the Echo Smartpen in particular, it would also annoy me that one needs to buy their special notebooks with a microdot pattern to make the digitizer work. $25 apiece; that makes the monthly reMarkable cloud fee seem modest in comparison.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 03:37:31 pm
content: Quote from: MT on July 18, 2022, 03:07:27 pmThe drawings made by the pen and sync'd to a device are subtly different.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 03:39:45 pm
content: QuoteYeah, I don't care if the pen is free - using special paper is a killer. Hell, even if the paper were free it's be a serious road hump.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 03:42:11 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 18, 2022, 03:37:31 pmRight, it looks like the pen is not pressure-sensitive, so the different shades created by lighter and stronger lines get lost in the digitized drawing.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 04:29:49 pm
content: Lines are different lengths and not in the right place.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 05:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 18, 2022, 03:22:30 pmprobably, i just saw this pen right now, btw its not sweddish its american.Quoteyep thats an annoying thing.QuoteThats an interesting observation, how would one solve that? Assumes the inc cartridge is spring loaded as ordinary ball pens are one could use a optical distance sensor at the top inside the pen to measure pressures?Hmm, it also records audio, audio to text?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 05:11:29 pm
content: I borrowed a reMarkable 2 to play with from a colleague for a few minutes. I don't like it. Just doesn't feel right and it doesn't feel like you're connected to it. Plus it's terribly inferior on the software front as an iPad user background.I'd go with the flow and buy an iPad and Apple Pencil and use GoodNotes. Even the bottom end ones are fine. They last years and are supported. My daughter just replaced her last one and iPad which she bought in 2015. It was still working fine but she wanted to upgrade to an iPad Pro for the extra performance. I use a 2021 11" iPad Pro as mostly my primary computer as well with an Apple Pencil and GoodNotes. It's really something special to use on a daily basis.Also worth looking at ProCreate if you are artistically inclined.Look around at the YT videos of ipads and goodnotes etc.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 06:02:59 pm
content: I don't use my reMarkable2 as a daily notebook.But I've occasionally scribbled things in which you can tidy up easily enough.See attached for example of my copy of Mr Carlson'sDave CAD

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 06:10:32 pm
content: I remember an earlier discussion about those tablets already.First point it to be aware of their suibscription-based schemes: most of them now have those, and often some features are limited if you don't take a subscription.As to usability, I personally don't like that. I would have liked to, but it just doesn't work.If I need to keep handwritten notes in digital form, I'll just scan them. Most desktop printers now have an embedded scanner that is more than good enough for this task.As to cost and environment, it would take probably a lifetime of use to make it cheaper or more environmentally friendly than pens an paper. Unless maybe you handwrite thousands of pages a month. I know I don't.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 06:16:52 pm
content: Yeah don’t do it for the environment. I do it because I don’t want 11 crates of paperwork lying around.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 06:21:13 pm
content: QuoteThat's one option I look at but ISTR falling at the sync hurdle. I am Windows based, don't do anything Apple and don't want iTunes or iCloud or whatever. Just copy as pdf to some network share would be fine.What're the options along those lines?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 06:27:14 pm
content: Export as PDF is there. Just throw it at OneDrive or Dropbox or something on the iPad and it’ll arrive on your PC instantly. Or there’s Files app that ships with it which can connect to a network share. If your printer has AirPrint you can just print it from the device as well.You don’t have to use anything iCloud or apple for sync. It’s a rather well disguised standalone fully blown computer.If you’re not going to embrace some of the ecosystem it’s probably better to walk away though. Most of the advantages come from the integration. As I use a mac, what I write is on my desktop computer as I write it for example.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 09:56:14 pm
content: OK, thanks

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2022, 11:45:13 pm
content: Thanks everyone. I've decided to go with theSupernote A5 X. It was close between that and the QuirkLogic Papyr.My main reasons for the Supernote were the features you get for the price. The device/display is extremely responsive (one of the fastest available) and there is no microphone (in case of Chinese spyware). I liked the larger A4 size of the Papyr but it seems very custom in terms of the software and more suited to the education and commercial market where you might have a whole ecosystem built around QuirkLogic devices/servers. The stylus is also reportedly one of the best out there in terms of feel and the nibs never need replacing (they are made of ceramic). Supernote also seem to release software updates quite frequently and are responsive to user feedback and feature suggestions.I just wasn't willing to spend good money on the reMarkable and then having to pay additional for the cloud services and essentially be at the mercy of the company should they decide to discontinue the service, stop supporting the devices or shutdown completely.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2022, 01:36:06 am
content: If anyone is worried about the smooth display of an iPad, you can get matte screen protectors that give it some tooth. I'm using a Bellemond one which is designed to mimic pencil on Kent paper and it's pretty convincing (except for the fact that the Apple Pencil is a lot heavier, and there's no "give" of a notebook).The aliasing of the handwriting on the Supernote is so bloody distracting I don't know how you can stand it (okay maybe close-up YouTube B-roll is a tad unrealistic).

author: NoMoreMagicSmoke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2022, 01:49:07 am
content: I have a BOOX device. I have watched the network traffic and it appears to be mostly logging of apps used which is not much different than what google does with regular play store devices. There are ways to block off that specific traffic though so you can make it fairly less creepy.The biggest negative to me is the laggy writing if you use any note taking app other than the built-in. If this doesn't bother you its great. If text lag will bother you definitely don't get it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2022, 04:36:25 am
content: I use a Galaxy Tab S7. The part I like most is being able to select a block and move it, no more leaving a lot of extra space just in case or running out when you realize that section is a lot more complex than expected.Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 18, 2022, 06:10:32 pmThe thousands of pages also applies to ebooks, it's not hard to reach that if you use the device for that as well.