The Elusive BBC TV Detection Vans  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:09:58 pm
content: however i am more interested in efficacy of these detection vanshow accurate is this detecting local oscillator feedback (not much i suspect)http://www.bushywood.com/tv_detector_vans.htm

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:18:08 pm
content: what....the hell is this? some kind of convoluted april fool's joke?

author: MartinX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:25:17 pm
content: They used to have this in Sweden too, but I think it was only scare tactics, I don't know of a single case were they actually used the measurements to detect a TV. It must have been impossible in an apartment block with TV receivers everywhere. They just rang the door of people that had not paid for a TV licence and asked them if they had a TV.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:27:44 pm
content: so what the hell is a "tv license"?

author: Kevin.D
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:32:27 pm
content: I am no expert on how they used to work , but I believe TV detection vans are useless now . They used to detect the radiated signal produced from the HT final anode of crt tubes ( which is very strong) I believe .tv detection vans don't work with lcd tv's , I think the bbc are trying to bullshit and frighten people into paying there liscence .

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:34:44 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:27:44 pmIt's what pays for the best quality TV programming in the world!

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:36:45 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:27:44 pmKids these days ...A TV license is a license to operate a a TV. Kind of a tax used to finance public or semi-public TV stations. Either includes or available separately a licence to operate a radio.

author: David
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:36:57 pm
content: Yes and it costs £145.50 (~$228) per year for the privilege. Or £49 (~$77) if you still have a black and white TV!!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:27:44 pmYou pay about $19/month for a large range of quality TV and radio programming including local and national stations spread over many channels.I pay way more than that in the US for cable service and get far less for it.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on January 28, 2013, 09:36:45 pmI happen to be 35.QuoteI don't buy it. Sounds like some kind of screwed up andy worhol TV mob racket or something. "I see you have a TV, you should buy insurance so something won't happen to you, er it."Not even to mention that this is total BS as over the air is totally in the clear, there is no such thing as needing a license for operating a TV either, even if you were somehow supposed to buy some sort of BS license to pick up stations there is no way in hell operating a TV would be taxable like that - someone could easily just have a DVD player and/or VCR along with being an old console fan like myself, my TV doesn't even have an antenna of any kind hooked up to it, just an SNES, NES, genesis, atari 2600, playstation, psx2, gamecube, and xbox1. Not even to mention the complications this kind of bs would get into with a computer with or without a tuner card in it, or a computer with a TV as an output of which I have both.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:53:52 pm
content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

author: David
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:50:28 pmMore info here:http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:57:44 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:50:28 pmWell that's the thing about laws. Society can enforce them whether you agree with them or not. We might say it's just as outrageous to forbid the growing of recreational herbs in your back yard for personal use, but yet, that law exists.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 09:59:38 pm
content: Here in the U.S. we call it cable but over the air is free and the public stations have to beg for donations.

author: MartinX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:01:24 pm
content: QuoteThat is a matter of the legislation in your country, in Europe this was common, in fact for many years in Sweden all you could watch was the state run network, not until the late seventies when satellite receivers and cable TV became available this changed.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:03:06 pm
content: ....I feel like I somehow wandered into a parallel dimension.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:05:30 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 10:03:06 pmYou did. It's called the Internet.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:50:28 pmWell, how should I tell you this in the most gentle way? There is a large world outside of the USA, and things are run differently there.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:17:36 pm
content: WOW. I remember Radio Licences in OZ back in the 60s. I remember I made a foil lined cupboard to hide the radio in when someone spotted the VAN ! A phone call network would alert the street. I THINK it also covered TVs as well, for a brief period. That's stretching my memory.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:23:00 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on January 28, 2013, 09:36:45 pmYes and no.To own and operate a TV without receiving live broadcast, for example watching DVDs or playing games? No.To receive live broadcast using any medium, TV or PC, online etc, but not catch-up? Yes.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:26:44 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on January 28, 2013, 10:23:00 pmI think Bored may have been talking in general terms, rather than UK-implementation-specific detailsI don'tbelievewe're the only country left to have a licensing regime, so the requirements may vary...

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: David on January 28, 2013, 09:36:57 pmOnly £145.50? You don't know how lucky you are.Here it is DKK 2640 (~£283) and you don't even have to have a TV. Having a 256 kbit/s or faster Internet connection suffices. Yes, that means a typical smartphone plan is enough to make you liable to pay.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 10:41:28 pm
content: The TV licence fee is why the BBC web site has ads when viewed outside the UK.The BBC produces content at considerable cost and broadcasts this programming over the airwaves free of commercial advertising. To receive the broadcasts you have to pay a licence fee in compensation. As part of this bargain, UK residents can access BBC content online free of charge and free of ads.However, it would seem unfair if overseas subscribers could get BBC content free of ads since they are not paying the license fee. So the BBC website has ads on it. And the BBC iPlayer is not accessible. And other parts of the BBC web site are blocked as well.The irony is that I would happily pay $228 per year to receive all the BBC output without restriction. I'm just waiting for them to offer that service.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 11:06:31 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on January 28, 2013, 10:12:41 pmOh please. Check your attitude, I'm not one of those people, I happen to have friends in australia, romania, england, spain, holland, and other places. I happen to be 35, and I have never once heard of this before. I happen to be stuck in this horrible country, that doesn't make me like the average idiot here. Think from my perspective just for a moment, where this was never even mentioned in passing or seen or heard about anywhere in 35 years and then all of a sudden this thread, before the many people posted. It sure as hell seemed to be way outside of what was realistic, so I went with the likeliest thing, that this was some sort of prank thread. Turns out I was wrong. Give me a damn break.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 11:07:34 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on January 28, 2013, 10:23:00 pmThis actually makes a whole lot more sense, thank you for posting this.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 11:17:22 pm
content: good luck scaning for my flatpanels local oscillator... it ain't got one. ( no tuner )and is fed only HDMI sinals coming from network receivers.

author: ecat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 11:18:17 pm
content: Quote from: Tepe on January 28, 2013, 10:27:58 pmIndeed there are many here in UK who don't know how lucky they are. Which is strange because the BBC is one of the few things we in the UK have left to be proud of.That £12 per month gives us four main T.V. channels + 24 hour news and a kids channel, over 10 radio channels, the BBC web site and the on-line iPlayer service. Some of the content is of dubious quality but some is truly world class (1). And best of all? There is not a single commercial break - I hear there are some broadcast services that charge a monthly fee and then waste their subscribers time by filling 25% of the schedule with advertisements, I doubt this sort of thing would ever catch onAnother great thing about the BBC, Rupert Murdoch hates it.(1) Keep an eye out for Wonders of Life (Brian Cox), the first episode was yesterday and it's looking good.

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 11:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 28, 2013, 09:57:44 pmHealthy society, like one where I live (Colorado) can change that.

author: Kevin.D
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2013, 11:33:47 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 28, 2013, 10:41:28 pmThe other irony is that many people here would happily forgo there right to watch the BBC on there telly and not have to pay a liscence fee ,and instead just watch the subscription stations that they have paid for voluntary ,they are just waiting for the BBC (government) to offer them that service .

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 12:25:27 am
content: Except the licence fee doesn't just pay for programming. If you have a signal at all, the infrastructure that means it exists has been partially paid for by licence fee payers. If you were to decide you didn't want to watch the BBC, that would be one thing, but you would have to give up your right to the broadcast infrastructure that makes watching any of the free-to-air channels possible. The BBC even works with other networks to create programmes. It's not as simple as just not watching the BBC.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 12:37:34 am
content: Some of the license fee goes to Channel 4 to produce their... umm... "educational" programs.And it pays for the radio stations as well and a lot of the infrastructure for that too.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 02:38:10 am
content: In Aus we payxcents a day (xused to be 6 but not sure now) for the ABC. Funding for the four channels of ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation - Our version of the BBC) and four channels of SBS (Special Broadcasting Service - multicultural & now indigenous TV) is quite a hazy grey area, a high percentage of tax dollars with some advertising revenue on SBS.I don't mind funding them, it certainly gives an alternative to the reality/news drivel on the commercial stations.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 06:16:18 am
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 11:06:31 pmAh, the "some of my best friends are foreigners" spiel. I feel well entertained.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 08:10:46 am
content: As someone said right after you, if you had bothered reading for anything but trolling material, your statement is false. I was correct to say your information was false.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 10:28:42 am
content: We used to have Tv licensing here, but abolished in 1974.The taxpayer happily funds our ABC channel to the tune of $1BN a year.Yet Rommney wanted to axe funding for PBS to the tune of a lousy $444MDave.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 10:40:55 am
content: And it's money well spent.I don't have a TV so I watch ABC online.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 11:04:41 am
content: I'm not sure how they can tell if your watching online unless you have to sign up to say who you are. I doubt the vans exist much anymore judging by the nasty letters I get from the TV licensing people - aka bailiffs, when I told them what to go do with their insults they said they had to word letters like that because it made bad people pay up. Last time I checked you were innocent until proven guilty in this country.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 11:31:01 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 29, 2013, 11:04:41 amMust have been a while ago

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 11:32:36 am
content: I'm just waiting for an inspector to come round at which point I'll tell him where to go.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 12:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: David on January 28, 2013, 09:36:57 pmWe got those fee funded public TV and radio stations too for about 216 Euros/year. Starting this year every household or office has to pay that fee even if they don't got any TV or radio. Before that you had to pay the full fee for a TV (incl. additional TVs and radios) and a lower fee for a radio (radio only). All together it sums up to 7.5 billion Euros/year. Insane, isn't it? IMHO there are just three TV programs worth to watch and pay for, which are 3Sat, Phoenix and Arte. And the funny thing about those is that they are just by-products, not the main channels. The public TV is distributed by DVB-S/S2 (digital, satellite, free), DVB-T (digital, terestical, free), cable TV (extra fee for the cable company) and partly internet. Of course there are a lot of private ad-driven TV channels and Pay TV channels.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 12:21:07 pm
content: you could always have a window tax

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 12:54:52 pm
content: In my banana republic of Croatia, every household which own TV or radio receiver is obliged to pay TV/radio licensing fee. You can own as many as you like receivers, you pay only one fee. OTOH, businesses pays for every single receiver they own, my firm pays three separate fees for three car stereosFee (or better say tax, but they will never confess and call it that way) is paid for owning a receiver, not for watching their programs.That money goes to public radio and television house HRT, which currently produce 4 national channels. Two main channels, HTV1 and HTV2 are full of commercials, two other channels are so far commercial free, but they started emitting just few months ago.Despite all that money, HRT somehow manages to finish every year with losses measured in millions...Monthly fee is 80HRK (13US$) for TV, half of that for radio. Once they register you in system, there is practically no easy way out. You must pay for as long as you own any receiver. You can't just "unsubscribe" and continue to own it, because on HRT's "unsubscribe form" you must sign that you are willing to let their inspectors to you home to check for any TV or radio receiver...Off course, that's against the constitution and law, but no one seems to care...So, the best solution if you are not already registered, is to never let their inspector in in the first place

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 12:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: flolic on January 29, 2013, 12:54:52 pmSimilar regime to Italy, when my grandmothers neighbor had problems with the licensing authority because a tenant had died and the TV was thrown out they ended up having to reply with a sarcastic letter giving the old mans tomb address in the cemetery. After that they finally got the hint.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 01:00:14 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Those of you who want to know what has been going on at the BBC lately, might want to have a look at the below article, which provides a good run down of some of the most egregious abuses of taxpayer money, by the Beeb since the Andrew Gilligan debacle. Such as lying to the people about the process, and the qualifications of the panel on AGW, which led to decision to only report in favor of the AGW Hypothesis. And the latest imbroglio, which has to do with the Beeb ignoring a pedophile friendly subculture, in its midst, and then falsely accusing a former conservative MP of child molestation, based on trumped up evidence. The BBC has since published a retraction, paid a cash penalty and fired a scape goat. Much as it did in the Andrew Gilligan "Sexed Up Iraq Documents" affair. For some reason there seems to be less interest in this sort of thing, by the press at large when it is the BBC, than if is was the Catholic Church.http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/some-direct-questions-for-the-bbc-that-itll-never-answer/--In the US, PBS consistently takes a left of center approach to everything political, not even attempting to give the other side a fair shake. I would think that if they were dealing only conservative cards from the bottom of the deck, perhaps they would be receiving less uncritical support in this esteemed forum. You only need to look as some PBS on air personnel. I.E. Bill Moyers, former Johnson Administration Press Secretary, who headed up the hunt for homosexuals in the administration after the Walter Jenkins scandal. Mr. Moyers also tried to convince the FBI to "find homosexual dirt" on Republicans, to balance things out. And the recently deceased Daniel Schorr, who before leaving CBS tried to associate then candidate Goldwater (who's father was jewish) with German Neo-Nazis “there are signs that the American and German right wings are joining up.” Now back to you, Walter, and have a nice day!" NPR's Nina Totenburg who having left private sector journalism soon after she was caught red handed at plagiarism, went on to help orchestrate the smearing of Clarence Thomas using leaked FBI files. So yes indeed, PBS like the BBC hires the kind of people, who warm a liberal's heart. Instead of calling them PBS and BBC, how about the Ministry of Truth."All I wants of you, Cap'n Simmons, is plain seevility, and that of the commonest goddamndest kind!"Zeph W. PeaseBest RegardsClear Ether

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 01:31:15 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on January 29, 2013, 01:00:14 pmYou obviously didn't pay any heed to the reaction of the British press (and other media, including the BBC itself), then?

author: ecat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 01:54:21 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on January 29, 2013, 01:00:14 pmNews just in.The BBC, employer of tens of thousands of people has over the course of its ninety history made some mistakes. Full story at 10.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 02:01:16 pm
content: Here's a schematic of a TV licence detector van from British Telecommunications Engineering magazine in 1984:http://www.schematicsunlimited.com/?z=TV-license-UK(you don't need to press 'donate' on the download page, just click 'download file' after the captcha)What do the RF engineers amongst us (I'm not one) think of the functional description? Would it have been possible to detect TVs even when they had analogue superhet receivers and before EMC regulations?There's even more info about vans here:http://www.televisionlicence.info/tvl/detectors

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 02:19:54 pm
content: Quote from: ecat on January 29, 2013, 01:54:21 pmDon't be glib.When the BBC makes a mistake it can influence long-term government policy which in turn affects the lives of the entire British population and to a (much) lesser extent that of the rest of the world; it can permanently blemish the reputation and livelihood of otherwise upstanding citizens; it can knowingly harbour paedophiles and therefore condone the physical and sexual abuse of children; it can divert public attention away from otherwise 'uncomfortable' issues; it can control and manipulate its news reporting to encourage group delusion of the populace; it can override its own governing charter to promote bias and propaganda, and on an on.When one of my suppliers makes a mistake I can choose whether or not to buy from them again or whether or not to hold someone accountable for the mistake. When the BBC makes a mistake, the director general resigns with a £450,000 payoff and an £877,000 pension. And I amforcedto subsidise it even if I choose not to consume its output.

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 02:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on January 29, 2013, 02:01:16 pmYes, a CRT is a rather strong transmitter at line frequency. A directional antenna is needed to detect that it is in your house and not in the neighbors, but in principle, not even a difficult problem.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 03:12:11 pm
content: Dear Balejemmet:--I freely admit that there has been for a short span of time a goodly interest in this topic by pretty much only the British Fourth Estate. If multiple heads roll at the Beeb, I will grant you the point, but if it is just confined to one scape goat, as was done in the Andrew Gilligan scandal, then I will say that it is cover-up as usual. The handling and reportage of the AGW Panel alone, where no heads rolled, leaves BBC management, to my mind at least, convicted of fraud and deceit.--The fact that over the years, BBC entertainment programming has been consistently the Best in the World, is a completely different kettle of fish, owing more to British Culture (what is left of it), rather than British Governance. No government should have a broadcasting arm that purports to report objectively on policy matters. The Government should step before the Press from time to time and give its views, not maintain a Ministry of Propaganda."Alright, I am ready to reform. Which one's got the orange juice"Alfred Hawthorne Hill 1924 - 1992Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 03:15:21 pm
content: Living in Jersey the Channel Islands, some 15 miles away from the UK we are subject to the BBC TV licence, and it's never ending threatening letters, ad-nausea... for my part, I have not owned or used a TV since 1975, as this was my ex-career way back when servicing sets. However, I have moved from one property to another over the past 20 years, and each time the BBC licencing letter follows, to the new address.Well, after a while I turned the game around; and sent TV Licencing an up-date on where I live each time I moved... this made them think for a good few years before they sent another letter, demanding my payment for a licence that I don't need, not having a TV. However, there tactic was to determine if I use a VCR or now a Blue-Ray Recorder, Computer or i-Pod to view and down-load BBC TV content; having advised them I do-not, even though I have a computer, hence this posting; and TV Licencing have warned me they will be visiting me, to check that I am being honest plus, because Jersey laws are medieval; a local "Centenier our Parish private Police Force" will accompany the TV Licence individual who visits; whereby I have to let these people in by Jersey law due, the TV Licence Individual has no right to enter my rented property, having come from England and not being a resident on the island, so a Centenier has to be present... well this was back in the 1980's and I am still waiting for there visit !TV detection with the 625 Line system was based on the line-time-base high voltage transformer LOPT; Line Out Put Transformer's electromagnetic field... it produced considerable radiation, a good 50 feet or more. So using a BBC receiver within the van, to monitor the off-air signal via it's line-time-base on a scope, you could detect the radiation from the TV within a house, and identify the channel it was receiving by comparing the two signals... today however, it's impossible to detect any useful signal from a flat screen TV; radiation from any local oscillator is well screened, and no line-time-base to detect any more... what TV's and other domestic products radiate, are wide spectrum hash-noise, are these SMPSU's Switched Mode Power Supply Units; they wipe out most HF Short-wave reception and low band too.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 03:33:30 pm
content: Detector vans worked until TV went to IC tuners, which have so much shielding to prevent radiation from leaking out ( one good thing of EMC compliance, you cannot detect if it is in the house in front, the one behind or the one 3 streets over) that they have next to no LO leakage.The vans also are not usable in a block of flats any more.How they work is they pull up a block in the central area office, then tick off those addresses not on a database. If more than 5% are not registered they go and do a visit.Of course they only do certain areas, I do not see them going into certain areas here, where the police go in only in an overwhelming number. Cluster housing is done the same way, looking for more than 5% unregistered.Hardest thing to get rid of, you have to prove you no longer have a set, and they might not accept that. Even if you leave the country they will fine you for not paying when you come back.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 03:43:21 pm
content: the bbc are wanting to expand the scope of the licence to indite people who own computers smartphones tablets etchttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/5320127/BBC-should-expand-TV-licence-fee-to-catch-more-people-who-watch-shows-online.html

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 03:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: JuKu on January 29, 2013, 02:57:40 pmPossible to determine if you are watching a live broadcast or feed from a VCR?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 03:55:44 pm
content: Quote from: Sionyn on January 29, 2013, 03:43:21 pmWhen I was visited I was asked "can you watch live TV on your computer" to which I turned it around and said: "can I, you tell me" ! Personally I don't think they can tell if you watch live online with all the shared IP addresses unless you sign up and log in which would be silly (although I have an iplayer account as I do watch the odd catch up which is legal).

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 04:31:37 pm
content: hahh i find this absolutly ridicoulus to pay fees for watching some channel... then i bet most of the houses have cable tv or anything similar too and pays for that too...here you have to pay fees for owning a damn chimney even if you dont use it. cos you have some other kind with the heaters. and what they do in return? nothing, if its collapses you have to pay for repairing it, if its blocked you have to pay to clean it out again. once a year an idiot comes out with a co2 meter and sticks it inside the flame chamber...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 04:33:55 pm
content: you want good content you pay for it, or have to watch a lot of adverts. Nothing is free.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 05:03:20 pm
content: So is the fee per TV or per house?We have 7 TVs in the house. I can just picture someone showing up here in the U.S. wanting to look through someone's house to see if they were lying about having a TV. They would be met by a gun pointed at them most of the time out here in the country. %-B

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 05:07:24 pm
content: It's per household.If you have one for your home address it covers portable devices wherever you are as well.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 06:51:49 pm
content: The Radio and TV licence stems from the early days of Marconi who got the British post office to fund and do most of his research and then surreptitiously took out patents excluding the Post office, from then on until the 1970's Marconi got a proportion of the receivers licence plus a fixed licence on all manufactured sets. all the sets manufactured or sold in the UK had to have a licence fixed inside or to the back of it.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 07:35:56 pm
content: In Holland we had this from 1956 to 2000, nowadays the public channels are financed directly from tax income.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 09:45:01 pm
content: Today I payed 113 euros for the "Tassa di possesso" (Tax for the ownership) of a TV or radio receiver, or a computer capable of Internet connection, or a smart-phone, or anything capable or receiving TV or radio programs. (Car receivers are exempt, if you pay one tax for your house, and you can have as many home receivers you like)Reading the previous posts it seems the here in Italy it is cheaper than in most other countries, but both public channels (about 10 different channels) and private channels (many more, I never counted them) are plagued with commercials and stupidity.The few BBC programs I can watch with my satellite receiver are amazing: no commercials, good contents, not intended only for a stupid, uneducated public like most of Italian TV.I'll be happy to pay double the price for better programming.The funny thing is that some people never paid, and they will never pay: the Government writes you a letter, and you do not answer, and they write you again, and you do not answer, and so on, for years.If somebody in your family paid once, you are obliged to continue paying.. The only way to stop paying was to call them to your house and have them seal your TV (or simply "a TV", maybe not working), in a sack..I know somebody who did this.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 09:47:26 pm
content: Quote from: ciccio on January 29, 2013, 09:45:01 pmor you send them the address of the dead person who originally paid: the cemetery.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 09:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: ciccio on January 29, 2013, 09:45:01 pmYou mean, "la canone" or more exactly "la canone rai" we had any trouble in italy over having radios

author: mark-r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 09:50:50 pm
content: I bought a telly online from a large electrical retailer and had it delivered to a business address that has never had a TV and doesn't have a license. Within a week there was a letter from TV Licensing, and a week after that an inspector turned up "with reason to believe...", despite the TV not being in the building for more than an hour or so and not coming out of the box while it was there!Moral of the tale if you want to dodge the license fee buy your tellies off ebay!

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2013, 11:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on January 29, 2013, 03:12:11 pmProbably it's only died down at the moment because there's nothing much new emerging -- I think there are still various enquiries underway, as well as Operation Yewtree, and once something comes out of all that it'll be thrust back into the limelight. (Although as an aside, a cynic might suggest that certain segments of the press found the scandal very useful indeed, as it distracted attention from the then-ongoing Leveson Inquiry into their own conduct!)However, I believe there's already been more fallout than just the resignation of the previous Director General; from memory the editor of Newsnight (who spiked that programme's investigation into the allegations surrounding Saville, and perhaps green-lit the atrocious piece on 'a prominent Conservative minister in Thatcher's cabinet' with some measure of 'we won't get caught napping again!' in mind) and the overall head of News have been given the shove. That's not to say that that should be the end of it, of course, but I think on balance it's generally better to work out exactly whose heads should be placed on sticks, rather than calling for arbitrary beheadings and inviting yet another round of tiresome self-flagellation instead of addressing whatever root problems may exist.On the other hand, criticising the BBC is all well and good (it's almost the national sport, after all), but to my mind there are plenty of other serious issues raised by the whole Saville thing that have nothing to do with the BBC's (in)actions. For instance, seven different police forces appear to have received a total of 31 allegations of rape between them, and it seems they did utterly sod all about them; the media at large also appear to have had more than an inkling about his activities and yet made very little attempt to do anything with the information until recently. Not to defend the BBC in this case at all, but it's a scandal that reaches far beyond their walls.QuoteThe BBC is, in theory, editorially independent of the government -- to what extent that is actually true might be the subject of some debate, but if it were intended to be the government's spin machine it would appear to do a bloody poor job of it. The governance model has the BBC Trust holding responsibility for operational oversight and editorial standards (not editorial direction!), and as I understand it the government can only recommend appointments of Trustees rather than exert direct control over any editorial or operational staff.I'm not sure what overall effect the Gilligan affair had on the BBC's editorial policies, but the Hutton Inquiry into that mess would be the most blatant (public) example I can recall of the government of the day trying to have an obvious pull at the Corporation's strings. For what it's worth, the immediate results of that inquiry were actually three 'resignations' (Gilligan himself, the Director General, and the chairman of the Board of Governors -- the governing body that was later replaced by the Trust, and had the same general relationship and responsibility to both government and the BBC.)

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 02:03:25 am
content: Dear Baljemmett:--Your brought up several good points, and corrected my knowledge on several points as well. It is good to hear from someone knowledgeable on BBC history in the UK. I will also study up on some of the points you mentioned. Thanks for lessening my ignorance. I should have pointed out that is was Eco-Journalist George Monbiot who actually named the former Thatcher Minister in print, and not the BBC. He apologized profusely hoping to forestall legal libel action, but this is not his first trip over the ethical line. We have our share of people like him in America. For instance 9/11 Truther Alex Jones on the right, and Peter Gleik and Al Gore on the left.--American Journalism has been caught more that once with Piers Morgan type, phony documents, pictures, and stories in attempting to place the thumb on the scales, so do not think I am criticizing your country. In fact, as a favor, we have lured Mr. Morgan over here and given him his own show on CNN, where his over the top arrogance, disrespectful behavior to guests, and sanctimonious hand wringing is driving away audiences in record numbers."I've found out so much about electricity that I've reached the point where I understand nothing and can explain nothing."Pieter van Musschenbroek 1692 -1761Best RegardsClear Ether

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 01:13:49 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 29, 2013, 09:49:43 pmNo, actually it was "IL canone RAI" (canone is male) but they changed the law some years ago, because the name implied that it was for viewing the state's channels broadcasted by RAI.They changed to "tassa di possesso" so even if you use your satellite dish to view only foreign stations you have to pay for it.For what I know, now radios are exempt.Best regards

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 01:22:07 pm
content: You are right, it's been a while and once again we see how england falls down, "possesion tax" is what our BBC license is, because having a TV means I have to pay it, but they say that I have to pay it to watch live BBC, so what if I buy a tv but don't watch bbc on it ?

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 01:49:18 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 30, 2013, 01:22:07 pmThere's a lot of confusion on this topic....If you have a TV, computer, mobile phone, VCR, etc, butdon'tUSE them to watch or record programmes AS THEY ARE BEING BROADCAST on ANY channel, you do NOT need a license. No license required for iPlayer, no licence required if you have a DVD player hooked up to the telly, no license required even if you have a TV plugged into the aerial. There is nothing wrong with just having the equipment, only USING it to watch or record TV programmes as they're being broadcast. Much like there is nothing wrong with owning a kitchen knife, but there is if youuseit to stab someone.http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5/"It’s against the law to watch or record TV programmes as they're being shown on TV without a valid licence. This includes the use of devices such as a TV, computer, mobile phone, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder." --TV LicensingTake this very literally. It says nothing about owning a TV, or using it to only watch ITV, and specifically exempts catchup services like iPlayer because it's not: "as they're being shown on TV".More info here:http://www.televisionlicence.info/and here:http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 02:23:11 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on January 29, 2013, 02:19:54 pmMaybe the European "world"... This stuff wouldn't fly in Canada either, the day they start driving around scanning for TVs is the day everyone would throw their TVs at the House of Commons.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 02:25:12 pm
content: Yes I read the rules to win an argument at work about me not paying it but using the iplayer occasionally. But bt TV programs what is intended ? ITV is free as it's run by adverts ? Is this why the TV licensing people are a separate body of people (bailiffs) ?

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 03:03:43 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 30, 2013, 02:25:12 pmIt'sanythingthat's watched or recorded as it's being broadcast. If you watch the 10.00 news at 10pm on a TV, a laptop or mobile phone (via the BBC's live feed), you need a license because you're watching it as it's being broadcast. If you watch the 10.00 news at, say, 11pm on the iPlayer you don't need a license because it's not being 'broadcast', it's on-demand (i.e.previouslybroadcast).That 'anything' in italics above applies to BBC, ITV, channel 4, channel 5, Dave... all the freeview channels. Not just the BBC.TV licensing are not a separate body as such, theyarethe BBC, but the BBC contracts out the collection of the fee to a company called Capita. And they are NOT bailiffs! They have as much right to enter your home as I do.Yes, we have a channel in the UK called 'Dave'.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 03:25:18 pm
content: Just paid this tax, works out to $30 for the year. Even though I watch less than an hour a month you have to pay for the bosses parties, new cars, new offices, lost monies and such.Only good thing is that it is accepted as verification of address to buy other stuff.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 03:42:11 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on January 30, 2013, 03:03:43 pmWell that is crooked, so it is an ownership tax more or less not paying for content. I know just how much power the licensing people have, the last bloke i let in out of courtesy, the next one will be told where to go save for returning with a police warrant. I am sick of their nasty letters and two can play at that game, in fact I usually send them back now as "not at this address".

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 04:20:05 pm
content: Capita is normally called Crapita by those who have worked there. You know a company is shyte when even the outsourced staff hate them.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 04:26:45 pm
content: I'm guessing their "inspectors" are paid a pitence and given a "bonus" for catching people as most of their wages - a bit like window sales cold callers who pave the way for the guy that will get you to take out a loan, (because they are not allowed to try and sell you finance if they come unannounced)

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 04:48:25 pm
content: The inspectors get £20 commission for every license they 'sell' whether the 'customer' needs one or not.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 05:32:17 pm
content: only 20 quid when they recon they will fine me 1000 and the catch 1000 people a day - yes I'm not joking this is the sort of bullshit they come out with in their nasty threatening letters.I can't wait for the next inspector to turn up

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2013, 09:30:55 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on January 30, 2013, 08:38:11 pmDon't forget the nice pensions and the insane sums paid for broadcasting licences of sports events.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 07:06:50 am
content: Quote from: madires on January 30, 2013, 09:30:55 pmyep, I think I'm staying as I am with the Iplayer, I'm not up to funding a 450K payoff to a guy that spent 1 month in the job !

author: Alana
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 10:58:09 am
content: Here in Poland we do have TV licencing fee too, if i remember about 400zloty [1zl is 4.1euro now] a year.But funny thing is that first - if you do not register that you own a TV you are not obliged to pay [they were working on changing that but it never passed legislation] and there is no method of enforcing payments, except for reminder letters.Personally when my tv set broke 4-5 years ago and i realized that its something more than blown up fuse i stopped watching tv alltogether - program quality is crappier than crap and its simply not worth of even owning a tv set.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 11:12:38 am
content: Quote from: Alana on January 31, 2013, 10:58:09 amI think you swapped the numerator and the denominator.A zloty is slightly less than a quarter Euro.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 11:50:00 am
content: That's what I thought or I can't see why tyhe polish should want to come to the UK if they have such a strong economy %-B

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 01:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on January 30, 2013, 08:38:11 pmTechnically the only taxes I pay are HST and income taxes... I cut the cable when they switched to digital, so I don't know who they're getting money from, but they're not getting it from me...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 02:50:01 pm
content: As the old saying... you see better pictures with the Radio,and that's what I have been doing for all these years; short-wave and local with BBC station mix, far better choice from the world-wide Aether.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 03:59:28 pm
content: The definition is higher with radio as your imagination is limitless.The best part about radio is I can listen and enjoy it while doing other things. If I sit down and watch TV I've wasted an hour, or two, or three, or four, or my life...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 04:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on January 31, 2013, 03:59:28 pmQuite, I listen to radio 4 non stop and know more news than most.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 06:54:03 pm
content: Im from Finland, we used to have tv license here...Now at newyear it was finally changed into a tax, proportional to your income and some lowest income classes dont have to pay this tax..To bad i cant listen radio at work, its industrial facility thats categorized as high noise area so ear protection is mandatory. Thanks to all the metal structures, radio reception is bad even in ares you could try listen it...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 07:01:30 pm
content: Have you tried motorcycle earphones ( they fit under a helmet) and a smartphone with an internet connection to listen to streamed content like your favourite station.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2013, 01:36:14 pm
content: bingo a so called restored detector van

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2013, 04:25:06 pm
content: Quote from: jaqie on January 28, 2013, 09:27:44 pmThat's used in countries where the government owns the television network.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2013, 04:30:34 pm
content: Quote from: ecat on January 28, 2013, 11:18:17 pmThat means nobody ever goes "pee" in England. No commercials = no pee.Funny thing is I have Netflix, and I can watch BBC produced programs and pay less for that than the TV license fee in the UK. I guess since it is already paid for, it's just gravy for them.

author: dave_birdi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2013, 09:14:00 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 28, 2013, 09:34:44 pmThat's meant to be a joke, right?

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2013, 09:43:53 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Post WWII London was infested with KGB. MI6 tried to keep a running tail on them, using "Watchers" directed by radio. The Russian Spooks would try to keep a watch on the watchers by finding and intercepting the Watcher Radio Frequency. So, MI6 had a bunch of fiberglass body Postal and other vans with radio gear, so they could watch the watcher watchers, by listening for Local Oscillators tuned to MI6 watcher frequencies. Now with encrypted broadband cell phones, this cat and mouse game has gotten ever more technically complicated, and includes plastic fuselage aircraft (like the Lear 2100) and drones flying low level, often at night or in foggy weather to catch those mousies. As many Jihadis and South American Cartel Grunts would tell you if they could.--So that is where BBC got the brilliant idea of trying to spy on citizens. The story is only one of the many amazing stories by former MI6 Boffin and Bodger Peter Wright in his book Spy Catcher. Spy Catcher was banned in Britain for a while because it revealed the names of highly placed Soviet assets in the intelligence establishment and high society. See below a link to Wiki page about Spy Catcher."The telegraph is a kind of a very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Radio operates the same way, except there is no cat."Albert Einstein 1879 1955Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2013, 11:06:06 pm
content: Quote from: dave_birdi on February 02, 2013, 09:14:00 pmB-U-C-K-E-T! Pronounced boquet!