$3-500 USD Bang for your Buck Systems. New vs Old for the workbench or home - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 01:37:16 am
content: Until now I have been making do with a retasked I3 HP 8300 on my bench. Recently fitted with a cheap secondhand Quadro graphics card and 8GB of memory it has been 'coping' with most demands for bench but also crashing under Fusion 360 jobs. This is getting a replacement as per another thread but this is bringing on a reshuffle of PC's in the shack and home.What I am planning to build in this case for it is a small form factor more modern and better performing replacement for it. In my case this is heading to the house to allow me to do some CAD work in comfort and not have to struggle with my I5 Laptop which doesn't like Fusion 360 much and the tiny Atom based box I have inside is browsing and movie watching at best.As a result of the recent AMD releases I scored a cracker deal on a last gen Ryzen 5 2400G APU (CPU with inbuilt graphics) so apart from high frame rate gaming doesn't need a graphics card. So the plan is the following BOM.Ryzen 5 2400GB450 I Wifi board (either MSI or Gigabyte depending on price) and will run dual monitors if needed but can be done cheaper with larger boards or even 350 series.16GB DDR4 3200MHz memory (G.Skill was the winner on $ but prices seem to be rising)Used FSP250-50GLV power supply because they are slimline and fairly common 250W is plenty even with adding a 1050 ti later.NVMe SSD 250-500GB Most likely another Samsung 500GB as there is still a rebate on and some good deals.Case DIY Laser cut - because I can. Rough maximum dimensions 200x100x300Spec as above and allowing $30 for case bits comes out just over $400 USDThe question for others is buy a used work station for $150-300 or build a new box for the bench or bedroom?Woody the ITX roughy.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 02:16:19 am
content: A Ryzen woody.......Following.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 04:35:59 pm
content: Interesting project just for the coolness factor...Could there be potential problems with a wooden case, radiating EMI from the PC circuitry into the lab environment? Might be safer to design with wood cladding on an aluminum case?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 05:37:00 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on July 18, 2019, 04:35:59 pmMine is going inside the house so a non issue with test gear. Given the trend to Glass or Plastic sided commercial cases going timber makes no real difference over them. As to Lab use and emi in or out causing potential problemsIt would be easier to bond a thin copper shielding sheet (< 0.5mm) to the wood after assembly rather than tooling and machining heavier metal then cladding in timber. Or there is EMI coatings or a quick search found thisproduct at E14The SMPS is already metal canned and shielded and likely the largest potential source of Hash.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 02:10:15 am
content: I like the copper sheet shielding idea.Apart from shielding the outside world from EMI, it also protects the PC against static zaps that could reset it at inopportune moments... (ask me how I know...)

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 03:17:39 am
content: So far I have avoided killing off anything expensive with Static but randomly at aged 50+ I had my first static dissipative mat arrive in this mornings mail. Building a PC on a s/steel bench very carefully was the last push to purchase after telling myself I didn't need it for so long.Also arriving today was some Stainless Mesh in a range of counts that could be used for shielding or brass is also available fairly easily. S/Steel evilbay mesh sourceeBay auction: #282812532973Either glued or adhesive taped to the shell would work but I might grab a few sheets of the fabric one from E14 to play with.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 04:20:09 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on July 18, 2019, 05:37:00 pmhttps://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811853065Speaking of which; I let myself be tempted by the convenience of NOT tearing my old PC apart to build my new one...I picked this case up for $37 SHIPPED/NO-FAN option.Glass side/glass front; though I'd have preferred that the glass covered the entire front face, for that price I wasn't going to snort too loudly. I suspect that this may actually be the same chassis as my Thermaltake V200, only with a different front panel.Quote from: beanflying on July 19, 2019, 03:17:39 amMmmmhmmmm... the 8 mesh SS hardware cloth that vendor has looks pimp; and big enough pieces to use for automotive customizing.mnem*toddling off to ded*

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 09:04:43 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on July 18, 2019, 01:37:16 amyour ITX can not go with ECC Ram, correct?

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 09:10:48 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on July 18, 2019, 04:35:59 pmI have since 2012 a hand made wood PC ATX format in my EE Lab. Designed to be silent, everything is planar. Only one fan on the biggest CPU cooler (no space limitation for me....) I could find on the market.It has no shielding at all, so far no problem. Maybe when I will do some metrology stuff I will noticed something. Who knows...In theory the EMC risk is there, but I had so far no problems experienced or noiticed. Maybe I have an EMC problem but I don't see it...I should fire up my SA and take some measurements... It could be interesting. Time to buy an antenna for it, any suggestions for a RigLOL DSA815-TG? Basically 1.5 GHz with N-Male connector.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 09:24:24 am
content: Quote from: zucca on July 19, 2019, 09:04:43 amThe Gigabyte supports ECC but speed is king to keep the APU running at higher frame rates from everything I have read or seen so Non ECC makes sense not to mention the $$. Not that I am a fan of over clocking I will most likely have a play with Memory speed before I get into serious use with the setup to see what it will remain stable at. The MSI doesn't mention in the spec page but might in the manual?Gigabyte B450 I WiFiMSI B450 I Gaming

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 09:29:12 am
content: Quote from: zucca on July 19, 2019, 09:10:48 amGot a couple of these sets recently (type 7) and they resold like hot cakes............https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33029566295.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.33e84c4d1f2e25

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 09:32:13 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 19, 2019, 09:29:12 amDid you do anything checking to see whether they're any good?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 09:51:52 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 19, 2019, 09:35:24 amIn my case I am heading for small form of about 6L compared with a lot more when you add a card or a huge step up in case $ if you buy a commercial one to suit a right angle card. Given the quick SiSoft tests I ran today in my new $1k bench box the 2400G will more than cope with what I need in the house.Storage wise I am going to go NVMe and a Crucial 500Gb I can get locally for $51USD +tax to my door. More speed than the SATA in your list and way more than needed for this one. This alone drops $40USD off the price from the Samsung 250Gb 970 plus.I could forget about the ITX boards and drop another $70USD or even go lower and go back to 350 boards and save some more but it doesn't suit me.This is form over function to a degree but also on a budget.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 10:10:40 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 19, 2019, 09:29:12 amThanks looks interesting, I have the same questions as Scram.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 01:38:52 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 19, 2019, 07:58:11 pmThe other option I decided against was a powerbrick and an extra internal voltage converter. The upside of this would be a case of 3-4L but powerbricks on a fixed system are a bit of ugly laying on the floor. Power budget without a GPU would be under 150W (more like <120W) so the brick option might suit others with the 2400G.Part of the reason to go for the slightly overkill 250W is I might decide I want to add a card for a bit more gaming punch and there is enough head room for a GTX 1050 then wrap a new case around the rest sometime later.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 04:40:09 am
content: Just need a power supply now (arriving Monday) and to finish up the case detail drawings and cutting.Also ran across the tiny UDOO Bolt based on an AMD APU which while not price competitive it is fairly cool for it's Arduino/I2C ports etc.....https://www.udoo.org/udoo-bolt/

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 03:59:16 am
content: Case Cad time now all the bits are here. Power supply will be getting a mod to rout the wires through the top instead of the side as stock and also upgrading the 4pin power to 8 pin not that it is really needed with the Ryzen but just for my seldom seen compulsive obsessive side. A4 sheet of paper under it for scale and to stop it marking up the slightly tacky new bench finish.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 05:09:14 am
content: It seems like even a low power 1U rack server PSU is massive for that build? Too bad there's not much demand for 250W PSUs with power densities approaching that of the bigger rack server PSUs, since I can really see there being a substantial space savings.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 05:33:24 am
content: Yep 150W would have done it but the only 1U supplies I had were 100W which is really tight at full load for the 2400G. External brick and power converters as I mentioned earlier I looked at but decided I wanted it all in one.Costs on the smaller ones locally tended to be higher and were more scarce so I brought a pair of these for well about $17USD each delivered from not far away from me.There is maybe a benefit later if I want to drop a small Graphics card into the rest of the bits the Supply will cope with most of them (1050-1060'ish). I have already got an idea for a case to suit with a vertical GPU

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2019, 04:24:10 am
content: Got a sample pack of Plywoods to make my Woody Case from. Eucalypt with a Beeswax/Orange Oil finish looks about the correct colour for this job. Looked at the Jarrah but it is a bit to dark unless it was clear coated.Lots of Ply options to play with from Plyco for the Ozzieshttps://plyco.com.au/

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2019, 05:00:15 am
content: Mate, I see what you are doing, but I have an idea.Some time ago I saw a case that I like a lot, not by being practical but by being beautiful:This kind of case is basically a metal sheet, folded in a way to resemble a monolith were you apply your hardware as show piece. Yes it's not practical because it's fully open, no protection to the hardware itself and forget any kind of airflow channels, since it doesn't have a way to contain itself by being totally open.Can't you using the same principle, have a metal skeleton the same way and just apply the exterior in wood as you want to do? For what I see is basically making the measurements bigger to fit your motherboard/gpu/hdd solution footprint, stick some round inside threaded rods and fix on the end the wood parts you want.That way you have not a problem with lack of earth in the components itself while fitting the design you propose. In my case I would to something like this with all sides glass, with spacing for fan mounting and breeding. It would suit very well near the type of equipment that we EEs love to use and show, as I've saw in this forum over and over again (and drool over and over again).Probably you already accounted for that, and if yes then I'm sorry for this post, just regard it as off topic or trash talk. And probably go way above your own bang for your buck price you stated here.Although I will be looking for your solution.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2019, 06:12:21 am
content: The Dust Bunnies and Australian Death Spiders would love it not to mention performance on a 30-40C day with poor coolingSmall form factor builds have been interesting to look at some of the other options out there.Nothing Off Topic about it I only started this topic as a place to talk about lower priced builds not just mine.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 08:48:48 am
content: As I start adding some detail to my case this came across my Youtube Feed. Custom homemade case comes complete with HUGE personality

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 09:57:24 am
content: How are you going to make these round corners?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 10:09:57 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on August 03, 2019, 09:57:24 amBecause Lasers are cool

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 11:16:28 pm
content: Glad to be over here on a new page, far away from the"Marvel's Mystery Oil Can" PC...that shit might get on me.I like your solution much better. If you're going to make it yourself, it needs to have something that can't be done better with a $37 box like I just bought.Were you able to find a ATX/ITX template to import for the 3D location of the I/O shield cutout vs the standoffs & expansion card slots? That was always the biggest PITA whenever I designed from scratch; I eventually welded & soldered together a jig out of pieces of old PC sheet steel to get the cutouts just right.mnem*Originator of theKegeratorLiquid-cooled PC*

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2019, 01:32:41 am
content: Fairly much all Mini ITX cases are a lot more than $37 if you want small form factor. In $ terms I would be under that anyway, in terms of time that is another thing.Most of the ITX variants dimensions are herehttps://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?area=usa&tid=wh11_008These were then double checked against mine and then create a model of the Mini ITX in Fusion 360 using minimal detail of the rear plate, cooler fan and mounting points. Basically not worth doing a full model.This model is then brought into the case design as an 'insert derived' that way anything you do to the ITX model gets updated in the case model. In my case I am about to cut a sample ply fascia with all the cutouts and labels and not use the metal shield or if I want to I can cut the fascia to clip the stock Mini ITX shield into.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2019, 04:49:51 am
content: Awesome that you were able to snurch the basic building blocks already done via somebody elseagainst it for hours.It's nice to be able to just jump right into the "design" part of a design.Thanks for the Timmy Joe vid; as annoying as I find his persona, he has a whole vid devoted to OCing my board and processor, and unlike most, he's detailing his settings and why.I've skimmed over it once; toddling off to bed now and gonna watch again tomorrow when my brain can actually absorb something.Cheers,mnemDon't git any on ya.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2019, 04:54:14 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on August 07, 2019, 04:49:51 amAnyone with two first names should be met or viewed with 'special' skepticismIf you can get past the OTT bit technically he offers good content generally.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 05:31:32 pm
content: You must be extra-overextended withyour coffee-roaster cleaning project. No inappropriate comments inmy Aorus X570 Build thread.mnem"Priorities, man!!!"

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2019, 03:47:17 am
content: Any news about this?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2019, 03:56:50 am
content: Hardware is working fine on top of a cardboard boxThe specialty ply arrived a few days ago after the supplier failed to ship until I sent them an email a week after paying for itOther than that life is in the way a little but hope to get to it over the weekend and start cutting up bits on the Laser. The 9 1/4 sheets of fancy ply = $275 AUD ($170 USD + tax) so far it is a very expensive case.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 06:56:55 am
content: BumpSo this needs to really get done and stop gathering dust without being used in anger.Power supply modded for wires out of a different side of the case to keep it minimum width. Heavier cable runs for 8 pin MB power (overkill for the 2400G) instead of the stock 4 pin.Samples of the IO shield options cut for a look in PLY as the shield (also engraved if used) or stock set into ply. About to crack a beer and consider which one to go with.All the Fasteners and fixings are now in stock so I am totally out of excuses not to get it done over the next few days. Touch Wood

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2019, 04:50:08 am
content: Some time later. 22 Parts about to head to the Laser - should work

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2019, 11:37:59 am
content: Gotta love woodworking anno 2019!

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2019, 04:18:17 am
content: Sure beats trying to do this by handI am a 4 decade plus Balsa and timber Basher, CNC and Laser makes so much more sense for some jobsThis is a roughy Cut and not the Laser Grade Ply for the final one. Last shot is just sitting in place for a look.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 03:51:28 am
content: So my 'rough' sample is looking like it is worth $X00'sAfter having a look at current and past timber cases on kickstarter this current one is a standouthttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pctubecase/pc-tube-case-12-inch?ref=discovery_ending_soon&term=pc%20caseTaking bets on the number of backers above the number of 1 at very very good odds

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2019, 06:38:40 am
content: Looks like all the internal bits fit together. Time to use some of the better quality Laser grade ply I slabbed up to width yesterday and make a nice one and get it glued up and into use.Roughy vertical is no glue no fasteners just friction fit off the Laser.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2019, 12:00:22 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on October 14, 2019, 06:38:40 amWill you keep it as is or paint over?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2019, 12:09:28 pm
content: Oil and Beeswax is the plan to a decent polish. The final one will be cut in a darker as per the samples below Jarrah in this case. Even the Pine ply comes up ok with a natural finish but I wanted it a bit darker and the hardwood will wear better.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2019, 12:43:42 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on October 14, 2019, 12:09:28 pmIt's not going to be same uniform colour, right?

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2019, 12:45:36 pm
content: It kinda makes me remember the Fractal Design Node 202Liking what I've been seeing.Still this is my dream:

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 03:07:17 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on October 14, 2019, 12:43:42 pmUniform in that it will be the same natural grained timber with a finish coat over it.Part way into cutting the Jarrah bits at present. Needs a touch more power than the softwood but the edges look crisp. Yes I was going to fit a power button to the front of it, the roughy didn't have the hole until I figured out where it could go without getting in the way of the 24 pin cable.This shot in natural light shows the Jarrah off fairly close to real life. Reddish Brown in natural state.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 04:26:25 am
content: Ikea would be proud fully flat packed and Allen keys to assemble with in this case very dodgy instructions in my brain.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 08:33:25 am
content: Looks cool!Quote from: beanflying on October 15, 2019, 03:07:17 amAt least, you will not touch it too often and it didn't become like my table top

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 10:06:59 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on October 15, 2019, 08:33:25 amCan't it be re-stained?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 10:59:16 am
content: At the risk of going off topic the easiest option for a Table for daily use is back to bare timber then stain and oil based lacquer of some sort. You can go old school wax etc like I am doing here but psuedo french polish or similar doesn't like rough day to day use. I did this on a Large table in a Cafe situation a few years ago before I got some life back and it held up really well.Below is a box I refinished a few months ago with the Oil Beeswax mix and a bit of elbow grease. Before and after shots. Not tacky in the slightest and still looks great.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 12:53:48 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on October 15, 2019, 10:59:16 amThat looks really good. Do you strip off the old surface treatment before applying the oil/beeswax? - No issues with the oil/wax surface be prone to being sticky, attracting dust, etc. even in the longer run?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 05:30:26 am
content: I had planned to strip it right back but the original finish was behaving like a Shellac base with top coats of wax or oil so I chose to just get it to a uniform look as a base. So light fine sanding then some work with steel wool followed by several coats of wax/oil got the result above. I could have gone shellac before that but I had misplaced my bag of beetles at the time (since refound) also if there was still wax on top the shellac would have not given an even result by sitting on the wax. So I went with just the wax/oil finish. It remains non sticky in any way, copes with water and mild detergents but will not like a lot of modern solvents. Some touch up options are non silicone furniture polishes or just orange oil.edit Scrap Coaster from the same base Jarrah stock single application of Oil and Beeswax.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2023, 03:43:37 am
content: Necro Posting but it is my thread soSort of worth a revisit as the $ haven't changed but there is a good uplift in spec as this GEN rolls out.Starting a new control cabinet for my larger CNC router and decided I needed to add a PC to the enclosure while I am at it. I have been happy with the 2400G from way back in the original post and in APU form it copes well even with Fusion 360 so decided to go with a similar specced end of generation Ryzen APU again.Ryzen 5 5600G16GB G Skill CL14 (the 2400g is still on tweaked CL16)Gigabyte A520I AC ITX (older AM4 MB's are getting to be hard to get as of this post)500Gb Samsung EVO970 (mainly because I have a bunch in use and am happy with them)Power Supply 170W NOS Lenovo 170W brick and mining type 200W ATX convertor mounted to the plug. In the cabinet it will be powered off a different supply.Total Cost $405 USD equivalent + Tax ($608 AUD)Even though it is going into another enclosure I will do some sort of case (likely homebrew again) for it to force air past the NVME and other bits for cooling. No need for more HDD space as most of the data needed by the CNC is shared via the NAS and local shares can be deleted if needed, 250Gb would have really been plenty but for a few $ more worth it.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 05:14:49 am
content: Roughy without any Cooling holes over a coffee for a look as I already had the ITX board modeled from the first one.Acrylic this time, no final idea how all the bits will get held together (glue, screws or a combination). Overall dimensions 200x200x70 and still should have room for a 2 1/2" drive if needed.edit -just about finalised the design so a render with some more detail added.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2023, 08:35:47 am
content: Just finished this little one. Effectively the same spec as the MITX above apart from it is an MATX 570 board (same sort of price) and has a minimalist tiny Jonsbo Case (circa $50USD on special) and a used RX560 I picked up some time ago. So just a touch over $500.This one is going on my Laser Cutters and will also might get linked to the 3D printer fleet via some Raspberry magic. Took a little creative Laser cutting a mount for the 1U PSU rather than using an SFX one which are frankly way overpriced.Absolutely EATS the old I3/Quadro it is replacing. Runs Fusion 360 even complex models easily and way more poke than I need to Inkscape and any 2 or 3D rendering or graphics manipulation I need now or likely for the next 4 or 5 years at least.Not shown here as I am still waiting on is is a dual PCI LAN card to talk to the Lasers so another $30 odd.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 03:37:40 am
content: Put the system just above to work that is strapped to the Laser and actually chopped this one out today. Shot below is just to test fit the bits together but it all clicked straight off the Laser without any tweaks needed.Still need to do a little work on the metal fixings (modified 5/32" Motorbike spokes and Nipples) and apply some glue to the back and four sides to make an open box with the front being removable. About $10-15 worth of bits for the case and some hours of CAD work.Only real mod to the MITX system to shrink it was to remove the top shroud from the Ryzen cooler which drops 8-10mm in height. The front panel dual USB3 header is an evilbay addon for under $10. The PicoATX supply and similar ones has a thread over herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/pico-psu-(power-supplies)-the-junk-end/msg4879106/#msg4879106