I'M HAVING DRONE ENGINE TROUBLE!!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Mckinney161107
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 08:08:29 pm
content: Hey everyone I just wanna know what are the best engines for drones. I want to build a drone that can carry 10gallons of water. Do I have to build one that can create that much power.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 08:10:29 pm
content: Don't shout.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 08:13:49 pm
content: Is that to fly over Gatwick?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 08:19:13 pm
content: I'd consult with Boeing on that one

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 08:24:07 pm
content: Forget the drone and learn what the romans did

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 08:40:45 pm
content: Quote from: Mckinney161107 on January 09, 2019, 08:08:29 pm10 gallons that's almost 40 kilos of just your water. It is huge for a drone but some fools have built even multicopters to carry a human using brushless RC motors - you can certainly find the projects by using Google.However, good luck trying to build a machine big enough to carry this and still be legal to fly. If you have to ask such questions you are obviously not even close to being sufficiently knowledgeable to build and operate such machine in a safe and legal manner.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 09:03:48 pm
content: Hobbyking has done it, check YouTube.One assumes it's for flying in fresh drinking water for disaster zones but the autonomy can't be that long...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 09:46:20 pm
content: Quote from: In Vacuo Veritas on January 09, 2019, 09:03:48 pmFor machine that large one would likely use gasoline engines anyway. Electric motors with sufficient power would require huge batteries or it would have very short flight time.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 10:08:02 pm
content: That would be 10 gallons one cup at a time???I can't carry 10 gallons. Are you building a 1/4 scale helicopter?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 10:10:54 pm
content: Look through this search of YouTube videoshttps://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drone+crop+sprayingYou will get some idea of what is possible and the sorts of specs you need to start looking at. Currently drones of the size you are thinking of still run a lot of conventional helicopter style platforms such as the Yamaha R-Max and others.It can be done with electrics but petrol wins due to the energy density of the fuel when it comes to duration in particular at this scale.The OP sounds like they have never built a drone? Seriously not an undertaking at this scale for someone without a background in both aviation and electronics or very deep pockets full of money.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 10:18:53 pm
content: To carry such a heavy load I would definitely go with fixed wing if possible, that's not hard to do with electric but internal combustion will get you longer range. You'll probably need something like 1/6 scale aircraft.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 11:15:11 pm
content: The word drone has many meanings to different people. If you mean a machine that can operate without a person on the machine that acts autonomously or by a remote controller, the answer to your question is many fold. Without answers of your own to define better what you are asking, there can be no one single answer.1. Is this a flying machine, a stationary machine, or a machine that travels on the ground?2. What is the means in which you want to move 10 gallons of water; i.e. a quart at a time, a gallon at a time, or the full 10 gallons at once?3. How far do you want to move this water?4. Assuming this is a flying machine, what configuration are you attempting to use; i.e. fixed wing, helicopter style or other?5. Do you already have a machine in mind or in your possession that you want to use?6. How much budget do you have for this project?7. What is the goal of this machine, other than to carry 10 gallons of water; i.e. contest, curiosity, want to DIY, humanitarian?8. Where will this be done, inside a building, outside in the open air?9. If outside, what type of climate; i.e. frigid, moderate, equatorial, humid, hot?10. Are there any other considerations that you have not mentioned?This sounds like a cool project, but, without you further explaining and giving more requirements, you can't really expect to get much useful feedback here, as many of us are seasoned engineers and will expect you to be at least a small percentage as thorough in your requirements as we are in our projects. You seem to be a beginner that wants to learn, and the first thing to learn is to be very thorough in your requirements.Hope this helps...

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 12:34:26 am
content: My son is an internationally ranked drone racing pilot. We do a LOT of design, construction, testing, and flying here. My very educated response to the OP's post is:"If you have to ask such questions, you are not qualified to build nor fly such an aircraft."I honestly don't mean to sound insulting. I'm deadly serious. Anything powerful enough to carry 10 gallons of water (that's over 80 pounds!) as a payload is a serious threat of injury or death to anyone nearby. Racing drones typically spin five inch diameter props and are less than 300mm across, yet we call them "flying lawnmowers of death" and erect protective screens for the pilots and audience at competitions. Anything that can sustain 80 pounds of payload is going to besignificantlylarger and more powerful, with commensurate risk of injury. I'm not kidding... we're talking amputation of limbs and instantly fatal injuries.Think a really long time about what you're considering, and if you still want to do it start with small platforms to gain experience. I'd suggest 2-3 inch props with appropriate payloads, then scale up. You need familiarity with the control hardware and software, for example, and that experience will scale up to larger platforms. But while you're gaining experience you won't be hurting or killing yourself or others.Once again: I'm not exaggerating. I'm not cavalierly tossing around words like "injury" and "amputation" and "death" just to get attention. The motors/engines and rotary wings necessary to transport 80+ pounds are significantly stronger than the human body. Don't get hasty and make a permanent mistake. I encourage your enthusiasm and reseach into this field but do it slowly and responsibly.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 01:02:42 am
content: I suspect long before death and dismemberment the $20-50k+ wallet shock to build it may ring some alarm bells before it gets to leaving the ground and if the CAA lets that happen either.What Drones or are not to people is misshaped by the media and junk mail sub $100 ones in glossy colour.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 01:20:14 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on January 10, 2019, 01:02:42 amNot to mention the court costs and attorney fees if someone gets hurt.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 01:42:58 am
content: Is there any reason you cannot build and use a conventional RC aircraft design? (not a rotorcraft based one) Fueled by gasoline or kerosine or whatever they use. Batteries powering the electronics. Reason, lots more energy for a given weight. Also, by using a regular winged aircraft design you'll immediately gain a great deal more range, flying time, etc. over a quadcopter, at the cost of needing a runway to take off and land and a lot less maneuverability. You'll also lose the ability to hover at a specific spot in the sky or take off or land vertically.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 01:50:49 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on January 10, 2019, 01:02:42 amI bet it could be done for a lot less than that, especially fixed wing. I know guys who fly 1/4 scale RC airplanes, both electric and gas and some of those could probably carry 80 lbs, especially if the craft was custom built for the job. Ignoring whether it's a good idea to try, I bet it could be done for less than $2k, possibly much less with enough ingenuity and a scratchbuilt airframe. Large wings with low wing loading, lightweight construction, sufficient structural strength to carry the load. Carrying much of the water in the wing as is done with fuel in full scale airplanes would greatly reduce the required structural strength although that comes with its own challenges.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 02:06:32 am
content: Likely 100-150m long well prepared strip is the major problem. In particular if the plan is water for emergency supply at a goal point just simply not practical. Twin 60-100CC petrol engines 4-5m wingspan would be some very rough ideas on scale. Ground roll and speed on landing even with brakes loaded would be brutal likely to be over 100km/hr.If you want time over a target or out and back to a particular prepared location fixed wing aircraft are the way to go.Quote from: james_s on January 10, 2019, 01:50:49 amSee above for some of the problems. 1/4 Scale WHAT? I bet you are wrong on your $2k tooScale of 1/4 is 1/64 volume and weight so if you pick say a Piper Pawnee as it is used as a water/chemical carrier it will carry about 500kg of payload that works out to be under 8kg at a 1/4 scale.

author: Mckinney161107
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 04:24:32 am
content: Do you have any recommendations on starting small scale

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 04:45:32 am
content: Quote from: Mckinney161107 on January 10, 2019, 04:24:32 amIf you continue to ask vague questions you are going to get getting vague answers. Small scale what? Lifting thimbles of water or a general drone to learn to fly or to shoot video with? Indoor or Outdoor? Give a budget?Happy to help but you need to provide something to work with.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 05:18:19 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 10, 2019, 12:34:26 amHe's really not kidding:https://www.news.com.au/world/man-decapitated-by-remote-controlled-toy-helicopter/news-story/5e1dd8b2ef951c2863906cc53931b158At these sizes spinning props are very dangerous. This is not a "my first electronics project" thing.In addition, at this size a drone is no longer considered a 'small unmanned aircraft' by FAA regulations and a whole new host of rules come into play.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 05:25:28 am
content: R/C Heli blades are built different to the smaller (sub 5kg) Drones or UAV blades. They have lead weights at the tips and a 'safety' cable back to the root of the blade. 2200RPM Carbon wrapped Wire slicer dicerTypical Drone props are plastic or straight carbon and will cut you up badly or eye damage is the obvious issue. The major risk to life is an out of control lump of stuff at speed in their case more than the blades themselves.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 05:30:06 am
content: He's not talking about a sub-5kg drone through, he's talking about a 100kg+ aircraft. I've had my finger sliced up by a 180-size quad, it really doesn't take much.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 05:49:47 am
content: You introduced something of a style which wasn't being discussed and I clarified the reasons for the resulting gruesomeness that was all. In my toy collection I have a pair of TREX 600's similar to what caused the death and so far still have all my bits attached and haven't damaged anyone else in flying them. Flying close quarter Aerobatic Heli's has major risks when it goes wrong.Worst slice I have had in over 30 years came from a pissy 1.5CC Diesel engine. Timber prop 6 lacerations to the palm of the hand as I went to adjust the compression screw. Ether in the cuts caused rude words to be said before heading to casualty.Worst injury I have seen was at a National championships over 15 years ago where a person with decades of flying experience fed their entire forearm through a 24" prop. They did keep it just.Humans have walked into Props at airports in the past either intentionally or unintentionally over the years too. Dead is dead whether from something airborne or a Red Bus.The OP will have no idea of the hoops the CAA (assuming he is actually in the USA) and it ever gets made will put him through to get it approved to take off in the first place.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 12:14:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mckinney161107 on January 09, 2019, 08:08:29 pmQuote from: Mckinney161107 on January 10, 2019, 04:24:32 amsince i can read mind...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes%27_screw

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 05:42:18 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on January 10, 2019, 05:49:47 amhttps://www.google.ca/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/latam/201810231069126216-teens-killed-taking-selfies/

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 06:21:43 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 10, 2019, 05:42:18 pmPlease, don't increase traffic to these Russian trolls (Sputnik is the Russian "news" agency famous for spewing hoaxes and various disinformation nonsense). He also certainly didn't mean distracted teens taking selfies but accidents like this:http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/38744158/update-ntsb-releases-preliminary-report-on-deadly-propeller-accident-at-cleveland-airportor this:https://www.enterprisenews.com/x259327706/Weymouth-pilot-killed-by-propellor-at-Beverly-airportSpinning props are a major hazard at airports, especially in combination with flashing lights that could make them look standing still.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 07:14:52 pm
content: @janoc you may be watching too much propaganda in your country. i just linked an article that was in scope of the topic. Next time take you tinfoil hat off before posting nonsense.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 01:20:15 am
content: Props certainly are dangerous, even small flimsy looking plastic ones are like a twirling razor blade spinning 10k RPM. I've been fortunate myself so far but I've seen more than enough gory pictures of rc model prop lacerations.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:18:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 10, 2019, 07:14:52 pmBud, your article talks about two teens getting killed by a plane that literally landed on them and were struckby the wingof the plane, not the propellers which the debate was about. So much for it being relevant.And re Sputnik, for your information:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)At least check your sources before you accuse someone of "watching too much propaganda" - then you wouldn't post links from an outlet that is a notorious for being a Russian propaganda mouthpiece and come out of it as an ignorant fool ...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:26:10 pm
content: I'd say it's every bit as relevant. While the discussion has tended to focus on props, dead is dead and being struck by any part of an aircraft large enough to carry an 80 pound payload is going to be a dangerous situation.

author: ruumoo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 09:52:56 pm
content: This thread is a roallercoaster of emotions. But if the OP is not trolling: I also have to say: you're not just jumping in the deep end, you are jumping to the bottom of the ocean with your questionGesendet von meinem LG-H930 mit Tapatalk