PATHWAVE BenchVue License - included with your purchase? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 07:50:06 pm
content: just spent a couple of hours failing to do what Keysight say is simpleSimply download the Pathwave BenchVue software, connect your instrument, then follow the on-screen directions to enable your license.and free:PATHWAVE Benchvue License Included with your Purchasehttps://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/perhaps its for the naive, too? the flier is Edition 1, April 2021

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 08:35:49 pm
content: some steps, remote, available

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 09:31:10 pm
content: They've changed it again, it is now called "BenchVue Basic" and doesn't need activation anymore:https://www.keysight.com/us/en/lib/resources/technical-specifications/pathwave-benchvue-basic.htmlYou might still be able to activate your license if you download the older version (<2022.1). But the Basic version seems to be identical functionally, so I don't know if there is any point really.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 10:43:31 pm
content: could've been worse I guessThanks for the update switchabl

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 10:47:46 am
content: Don't talk to me about installing Pathwave softwaveIt took seven attempts and one very helpful EU IT wizard to perform this function. Oh Keysight did admit they have had a few issues and that they are working on a far more smoother method of installation and thanked me for my feedback.We'll see how far they have preogressed with this as a new N6705C arrives on Friday..........................

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 11:09:39 am
content: BenchVue could have been the key element to unlimited success for all Keysight instruments. But it was so much messed up that it created the opposite.I was a real fan of BenchVue in the beginning but it created so many problems on my computers, that I gave up on it.If you really want to use BenchVue, it is best to just have a computer just for this software and nothing else installed. Especially the license manager sucks so badly, there not even words for it. It sucks even more, if other license managers that worked previously, will no longer work, because of BenchVue.If the basic version of BenchVue is free now, maybe it does not require the license manager anymore?Anyone know?The original free software that came with the 34461A (Pre BenchVue) is still working perfectly under Win10 and does not need any license software.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 02:58:36 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on August 20, 2023, 10:47:46 amThe free power supply app is pretty limited anyway (mostly basic logging). AFAIK you'd need an active subscription for the proper analysis software.Quote from: HighVoltage on August 20, 2023, 11:09:39 amIt still needs the license service installed (and running), otherwise it won't even start.The new "standalone" apps use a different one, so maybe that works better for you. Personally, I'm mostly sticking with the old ones for now. The new multimeter just crashes when I conncect a 34401A. And the oscilloscope app took several tries to install and then had weird glitches, like cursors randomly disappearing.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 04:02:17 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on August 20, 2023, 02:58:36 pmThanks !I just installed the Basic apps for Oscilloscope and DMM on a fresh Windows 10 system.It took several tries to get them installed, the installer was just hanging. And after forcing it to stop and start again, it finally installed after 4 attemptsTo see the difference between the basic and the full BenchVue, I installed also the full version. Same thing, took several restarts but finally installed. A trial version of the oscilloscope app can be installed for only 7 days. If I remember correctly, it used to be 30 days.So, I will be testing the BASIC and full version in the next few days.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 04:08:54 pm
content: My understanding is that basic and "full" versions are essentially identical, except:- basic versions not available for all instrument categories (e.g. spectrum analyser)- basic is one minor release behind- no technical support for basic versionI remember the original free-tier BenchVue having a limit on logging duration. This does not seem to be the case anymore.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 06:57:32 pm
content: I actually purchased the full I/V app not ther freebe, hence my suprise at the amount of hassle involved with its installation. Also using W10 pro here.Given I know have five Keysight instruments as with the OP it's a pretty unsinspiring SW app. Unlike the Lecroy Maui.AS you mentioned it promised so much and in essence delivered very little, it could have been a real killer section to their business

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2023, 02:01:45 pm
content: I also have a Windows 10 Pro system, but in my case, install went smooth, although it took a long time as a number of prerequisite software (a total of 5 additional software outside of Benchvue) also got installed in the process.While install was fine, the software crashed a few times, and one time it crashed Windows into the blue screen of death, it also could not identify the instrument on the first load. After a few restarts of Benchvue and Windows, now it seems to work OK.With the variability of different Windows systems, and the number of dependency software it requires, I can understand why it can cause problem for a lot of people. But if logging and more sophisticated graphing is your thing, then I can understand the value of the software. Otherwise, the web remote control does a lot of the same thing without requiring a Windows machine.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2023, 05:18:41 pm
content: Indeed I have had very bad experience with KS BVI wont rant on that subject just to say that its morally unjust and unfair to the paying customer (they dont tell you until after you paid for the equipment you ought to sign up for a subscription license or else lose their after sales support interestWhen looking into their license TOS I was disturbed to see that KS insists on on line access to your set up on the basis of "customer service yada yada" but also to check what you are connected to and whether your licenses are in order etc - highly intrusive - especially if you are a Commercial Laboratory say. I noticed particularly that I have the BV basic (free when you can find it - well hidden) that I can use with my DMM. With great difficulty I managed to make it work buts it has reliability issues maintaining logging over long period, days or more (but on moderate sampling of ca 6min period so not onerous datawise.) Thats another issue.What I found is that although this should be a standalone application, you cannot power up BV (on my laptop to find my DMM unless I am logged into web wifi connection. So its phoning home with what I am connected to. They thought Huawei was bad !!! Get my point of concern anyone?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2023, 10:38:52 pm
content: In my latest installation on a newly formatted Win10 machine, BV ran stable.Until I had to install a CAD software that also had a license manager.BV complained and I was not able to get both packages running on the same PC.I finally uninstalled BV and all its components.It seems that BV will run stable and good, as long as we are using a dedicated PC just for BV.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 12:33:58 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 01, 2023, 10:38:52 pmYes I agree, I run my BV on a dedicated laptop with no other apps on board apart from Excel (needed for graphic display of data after editing). I just hate the arrogance of KS and BV is just a GUI pasted on top of the original free NI s/w which is a huge compost heap of very very old s/w around GPIB, IVI etc really clunky and techie - its work never really completed. And we are expected to pay a subscription license, very convoluted third party license manager. Their lifetime purchase for my single use DMM $350BTW FWIW I am buy putting together my own standalone 16 channel 12bit data logger that will do the job of my $$$ DMM and present me with a clean table I can squirt into Excel at the end of logging session - free from tyranny of big corps spying and controlling. Ive seen the pico logger on ebay Pico ADC-20 High Resolution Data Logger with terminal board but its £400Ive also seen Test Controller on this board - good kit and freehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/new/?topicseen#newbut it relies on i/f with laboratory gear and their proprietary setting etc It does work for some but its given me problems (probably my fault) with my KS DMM - they dont want you straying outside their control.So more work needed as they say

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 11:01:04 am
content: Discovered today that BenchVue is broken on Windows 11 and totally unsupported.I've been trying to use a demo Keysight box, but lots of connection drops and strange errors. Turns out to be a Windows 11 thing. So it's getting boxed back up and shipped back.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 12:12:35 pm
content: I remember when with the 34410A, you could plug that DMM into your PC on a USB port, fire up Excel, and had a toolbar where you could set up days of logging data straight into your excel sheet. It only needed something called IO libraries. It doesn't work anymore, because this would be too easy and useful, and you wouldn't download their software that somehow requires a license to use their 2000 EUR DMM.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 09:25:25 pm
content: Due to having to support older devices I can understand the current lack of Windows 11 compatibility.I'd suggest running Windows 10 LTSC 1809 on a dedicated box or in a virtual machine for BenchVue and similar apps. It has extended support until 2029.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 09:28:10 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on November 02, 2023, 09:25:25 pmI toyed with creating a Windows 10 VM to get around it. The office PC has plenty of grunt to do that. It's just a faff, and I suspect they won't support anything virtual should help be needed. Might give it a try.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2023, 07:17:58 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on November 02, 2023, 12:12:35 pmyeah now it suck, because office 64 complain about some statement to be converted to safer onesthoses where some tryouts, derivativesoffice will complain loll but they worked on 32bit

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2023, 09:38:24 am
content: Quote from: robint on November 02, 2023, 12:33:58 amKeysight DMMs use standard SCPI over GPIB, USBTMC, RS-232 or LAN. You don't need any specific software except drivers for GPIB and USBTMC, which on Windows generally means VISA. You can control them from pretty much any programming language that can talk GPIB / USBTMC / etc. If Test Controller is not working reliably, this probably means the commands or configuration (e.g. EOI for GPIB) are incorrect.No one that uses these meters for anything remotely complex (say a setup of multiple instruments) uses BenchVue. They will all develop their own software in LabVIEW or some other programming language. Keysight provides support for this, like IVI/LabVIEW drivers. They would sell very few meters for automation if the only thing they supported was BenchVue.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 03:24:27 am
content: good point thereevery companies have their quirks, having LXI certified instruments means you have some base to work withknowing scpi commands for each and or using Ni / Visa over lan or usb or gpib (some serially interfaced meters do accept almost the same commands)will help more putting tests rigs togetherbut alas it does not means 100% of all the different brands or even the same brand ( old and new) may or will play nice together

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 12:23:44 pm
content: WOW guysIm not the only one who is KS BV intolerantFWIW I dont want to spend hours/day messing with setting up obscure programs to do my data logging work. I dont have a junior nerd around to deal with that schwepps.I had to move my BV pc and restart is on my KS DMM, another half hour faff to get it talking (as it was before - didnt remember its setting cos it was switched off in the move - what a faff - and the insult is that it must be connected to internet to discover the USB DMM even though its a standalone app. I quickly go airplane mode once DMM connected BTW).BTW Some 5 years ago I bought a couple of slab type logging DMMs from Hantek 365C (was £55ea) 4dig V,I,ohms ac/dc. 9000 samples 0.3-100s per ie I get 10 days max. BUT the graphical GUI only works on Win XP. I ve got a couple of Acer 10" netbooks 20 yrs old still doing a great job. Bit of a faff as you save csv data and squirt into Excel manually etc. BUT IT WORKS , no drama, hissy fits like BVAnyone else used Hantek

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 12:38:07 pm
content: There are plenty of threads here on the forum, in regards to BenchVueMany years ago, I was one of the greatest fans for BV and said so.I even had BV installed at some customers locations.But the problems got larger and larger over time, that it did not make sense to use it anymore.If you only want logging from a Keysight DMM, use the old Agilent logging software (Before it was called BV) and it will work perfectly without any license required and has unlimited logging capabilities.Keysight had the opportunity to own the market with a good instrument software package.But somehow they screwed it up in the worse possible way.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 03:48:07 pm
content: Today BenchVue just sucks, for a lot of reasons:- buggy- Keysight only. Support for other stuff is absolutely rudimentary and useless- Huge bloatware. 90% of the code went into a license manager and not real functionality- Erratic license philosophy. I remember when even simple loggin was not free, then they keepchanging their license schemes every half a year just driving users crazy- Python scripting does a lot more than BV can provide, its free and also works in hybrid (not just Kerysight) environmentsThe whole thing is a huge intellectual underachievement, IMHO. Just stay away from it. Some backstory here:https://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:14:56 pm
content: Amazing how a big Corp like KS can lets its corporate clowns screw it all up for them so badly

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:58:09 pm
content: The deep reason is that some consulting clowns told Keysight that from now on they are not a premium measurement equipment company, but a software-centric solution provider. A consequence was that all software they make was supposed to provide their own share of the profit - i.e. no free givaways. While Keysight hardware is quite good (I use a lot) BenchVue was never stable, universal, useful and general enough to compete on the open market. They thought it is a smart move to supply a Keysight-only integration environment that would keep customers from looking for other equipment not supported by their proprietary environment. This has backfired drastically; BenchVue is so bad it acutally promotes open architectures like Python scripting. What they could have done is make a really open, industrial strength automation platform a lot better than NI, and ask good money for it. BenchVue as it is now never left the usefulness of a free giveaway.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 05:11:48 am
content: W, It is indeed utterly tragic hubrisThe respected origins of HP for quality Bench equipment (remember those early HP scientific calculators - with RPN - Reverse Polish Notation and all those higher maths trig functions etc). They then went on rebranded as Agilent and downhill all the way as Keysight. Quite an astonishing dramatic demise. Its representative of the whole spectrum of the Industrial Instrumentation Industry in general since WW2. Automation was the fearsome buzzword which gave way to SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) systems as all those traditional makers were amalgamated into a dozen or so advanced technical conglomerates of today. Industry Clients demanded three things;firstly that the Supplier would guarantee spares and maintenance for twenty years being the life expectancy of the production plant,secondly, rugged reliability was of paramount importance as plant downtime from equipment failure could be extremely expensive (think of an offshore platform, or a PetroChemical plant),thirdly Safety Systems had to be developed to ensure reliable shutdown as many emerging Industries involved hazardous processes - eg Nuclear Power, Chemical Plant, Energy et al.These were very sound and conservative requirements that are often forgotten is today's - whizz bang attitude. My special interest is the application of Lithium/Sodium Batteries and I am appalled at what I see as irresponsible industry practices using a dangerous technology - as well evidenced on Youtube by spectacular fires and explosions. The Public has been recently enabled to experiment with dc battery systems of with large huge stored energy. These can deliver enormous current of 10-20,000 Amps under fault conditions in a garden shed of an amateur dabbler. Only professional Power Engineers have the Technical training and experience in designing such high current systems. The fact this we are dealing with low non lethal voltage gives an utterly false level of confidence for the amateur experimenter popular on Youtube.To help mitigate risks a reliable monitoring and logging system is necessary (as in the major Process Industries above). So I am all the more inflamed at the utter incompetence of BV to perform its function to Industrial standards. An unreliable logging system is useless protectionNo off gridders, windmillers, solar energy enthusiasts have shown much interest in comprehensive logging systems (as per SCADA). We have the technology to scan and store data readily and cheaply but we are just not applying it and comms systems with competing proprietary protocols most certainly impact on reliability (as per KS and NI)But what do I know

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2024, 10:21:15 pm
content: Quote from: armandine2 on August 18, 2023, 07:50:06 pmI just spent 2entire days of my billable timetrying to install this heaping pile of dogshit. I sincerely hope that the entire management and development team of this piece of software gets let go at Keysight.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2024, 10:31:47 pm
content: Poor chap. The bottom line is:Dont touch this crap. Learn Python and automate your stuff by yourself. At least YOU are in control.And - no license manager needed

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 06:25:42 pm
content: I've been running BenchVue with the DMM module only. The Spectrum module was very basic and next to useless.The old, free DMM version is good but doesn't support all the latest features of the 34465A. I've successfully used the DMM digitizer function a number of times to solve tough problems.I've had to call Keysight about 3 times in 3 years to help with various failed attempts to a) move, or b) install on other machines. Keysight was great and did have a desire to fix me up. In one case it went up the food chain a few notches and a fairly senior person helped to fix the problem, including re-issuing of license and removing dead hosts.Benchvue strikes me as something no one was serious about, brings in low $$. Maybe hand it to one or two interns for a summer. Next summer rinse and repeat.Right now, I'm using it for very long data logs and it's been great for that. I can gather weeks or months of data (barring power or sw glitch) and either paw thru it on the app or export to excel.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 08:55:48 pm
content: Agree, it feels like a pile of crap written by some amateurs.I mean, it does have potential, iif (if and only if):- its bug free, not like now- the license manager stuff is simply abandoned. Its a huge piece of bloatware with no benefit for any user, andits creating a huge amount of trouble and implementation problems.- It covers almost all functionalities of the supported instruments, not just some- It has an open architecture that allows the meaningful integration of non-Keysight instruments.Todays product is quite far from what is needed.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 10:22:15 pm
content: For the rest of my life, I'm not going to touchBenchvue even with a barge pole.Particularly inconnection with older puters. 5 to 8 yrs old.Fully in line with the negative remarks stated above.As the Germans say: "Könnste mir schenken, ich würd' dich Verklagen".I.e. should your translator fail: "Even as a present, I'd sue hell out of you"

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 07:25:19 am
content: If I would be Keysight, I would offer it for free without a license manager and use it to sell more hardware