Lab lights, how much are you happy with lights in your lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 09:07:50 pm
content: Recently i start feeling pain in my eyes specially when i sit on computer and work, I recently moved to a new house where i have energy savers installed, it looks me like the reason is energy savers, some of my friends says they are not good in such environment i also saw some debates on internet regarding LED lights and energy savers.Previously i had tube lights in my lab and i never had any issue, I'm thinking to change lights in my lab but before getting started i thought lets discuss with you guys' experience.what do you use for light in your lab, any good ideas to share, thanks.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 09:16:58 pm
content: LED lighting is shit for task lighting. I haven't yet found something that works as good as incandescent.Why? Newer is better?It has to do with how the eye micro-focuses and locates, apparently warm-white LED's are better as there is more red in the spectrum that the eye needs for its servo systems.I just got some 10W LED's from china and their light looks so bad, yellow fringing and I can't see anything well under them. It can be super bright but that means nothing.It's the phosphor recipe I am noticing makes a huge difference. All the peaks in spectral output seem to clash with what the eye needs.Next I'm going to try Cree or Bridgelux LED's and see how they do.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 10:03:10 pm
content: You want to get lamps with a Color Rendering Index up in the 90s. An incandescent is 100 and is the baseline for all color rendition measurements.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 10:23:45 pm
content: Also be careful with LED conversion for your lab, thre are other points to consider too.I changed several fluorescent tubes for LED conversion (not over the bench). Noticed a high noise floor on the spectrum analyser while reading a weak signal. Fired up the SDR and there was interference all the way to more than 150MHz.The AM band was totally unusable, even for local station.Used ferrite rings, grounded each light frame, capacitors, shielded chokes, etc... All helped a little but I ended up going back to the old tubes.May not matter much for the average user, but in a lab setting it might ruin your day. Some DC converters for LEDs are really noisy.For the bench I have some Phillips floods with CRI about 90. Seems to be OK. For the 3D microscope I went more blueish and bright as it helps resolution quite a bit, compared to tungsten illumination.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 10:41:07 pm
content: Quote from: sairfan1 on May 03, 2019, 09:07:50 pmare they point source or difused?I think point sourced are generally problematic for eyes and looking at things long term.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 11:14:27 pm
content: Mains voltage LED lighting and most fluorescents are generally problematic in an electronics lab, because of the amount of RFI they emit. Cheap and nasty LED lights may actually be quieter than expensive ones with good CRI.Fortunately magnetic ballasts for fluorescent tubes are still available, which emit very little RFI. Long tube 'daylight' fluorescents and lots of them is the way to go for general lab lighting. The length of the tube reduces sharp shadows laterally, and if you have several tubes well spaced out side by side, you can also minimise front to back shadows.Add task lighting, chosen for its low RFI and good CRI on angle arms or goosenecks, or as adjustable spotlights under the front edge of the lowest shelf over your bench, and you'll be far more likely to be happy with your bench lighting.If you are doing sensitive RF or audio stuff, and need a really low RFI environment, you may need to resort to halogen lighting, without dimmers, powered by a linear transformer or even 12V batteries, though 12V LED strip lights with integrated resistive droppers are also worth considering.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:08:09 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on May 03, 2019, 11:14:27 pmI agreeT5 4 foot is over 2500 lumens per tube @ 40w.a good LED setup could do that for maybe <20w, but I have not seen any commercial product do this well out of box and well diffused.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:48:32 am
content: There is an old teardown Dave did herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-533-led-fluoro-tube-teardown/This thread prompted me to go back and watch the video again because I use one of the exact same tubes and it produces an annoying whine. Not near 100Hz and I definitely cannot hear 16KHz as I saw in the teardown.I also note someone else reported the noise too.I just attached a cord directly to the end of the tube so no fitting or old ballast. The noise comes from the tube. So that is something to consider.I mostly use two DIY lights made from 5 and 4 compact fluorescent bulbs.It is not to be underestimated having super bright even light on your bench.

author: David Cutcher CEG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 05:20:01 am
content: I'm surprised that nobody (so far) has mentioned color temperature.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperatureAnd do you have an outside window (sunlight) in your new space? Focus appears to be on the background hum of the ballasts.As a shop teacher, I insist on quality full spectrum fluorescent lights, if only to read the resistors. I have no problems, and neither do my students. They do comment about lighting in other classrooms. I have as close to full spectrum LEDs in my home office. Only the best. No headaches.David Cutcher "Certified Evil Genius"

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 05:52:25 am
content: I settled on 4000K for the shack. However i found that the light quality also depends on the color the walls are painted. My shack is painted in sunny yellow, so lighting it with a 4000K LED fixture produces comfortable environment. I tried the same lamp in the hall painted in very light cyan and Gosh, it was terrible. There something like 2700 ...3000K would work better.

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 03:17:35 pm
content: QuoteYes i have a reasonable size window, and it really helps me while day time if its sunny my eyes feel really good, but i mostly work in the night that's why its a big issue for me.QuoteI was conscious about it, that's why specially i choose white color for my labs.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 05:07:37 pm
content: I always had a couple pantograph lamps I could move around and place as needed. They get a lot of use and movement.I used incandescent but in hot weather they give off too much heat.Compact fluorescents were OK.Finally I have transitioned to LEDs and I am extremely happy with the light intensity and color and they give off little heat.

author: dnwheeler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 07:36:20 pm
content: DIY Perks (YouTube channel) has a project making LED "studio" lights (but generally useful, too). They have a high CRI and adjustable color temperature, and can be made fairly inexpensively.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 09:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: dnwheeler on May 06, 2019, 07:36:20 pm*rephrasedI think the video is misleading@ 5:15, the video shows what appears to be a very very very high end looking LED spectrum, sun like wavelength density.and then at that moment he seems to suggest that is the LED sold on the ebay listinga spectrum of such density is likely CRI98, but I think it is impossible for such a LED to be 120-140lm/W claimed by the ebay sellerif he claimed 95+ CRI without showing the spectrum, the china LED specs of 120-140lm/W might be plausiblebut CRI 95+ in order to solve what he calls a "green" face, may or may not be the final outcome.to shift into rich red spectrum, the led must have red peak at 630-650nm. not all CRI95+ have this peak. and the ebay seller does not display the spectrum.(this is the spectrum capture of my cfl light, a common cfl. nothing special)disclaimer : I am only a noob at lighting, but I cannot un-see this spectrum he showed

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 11:38:13 pm
content: CRIis just a number, a bunch of math that can be fudged. It is not great with spikey (LED) spectrum. High-CRI does not work well with film photography but the number says it should.The DIY fixture is two sets of three LED strips with different colours (ice blue, warm white, daylight pure white), each with a PWM dimmer. Not very bright, and better for background lighting, not task lighting.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 04:38:59 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 06, 2019, 11:38:13 pmI remember reading that the standards body has defined a new color standard to replace the CRI, the TM-30-15.TM-30-15 depends on a 99 color spots, CRI is up to 16.manufacturers refused to use the new ratingI think it is because with CRI, it is easy to "cheat" buyers. the new rating will also cause many of the existing products to fall into mediocre low range.this in turn can be seen in the actual pdf at say digikey, I have seen not one using TM-30-15there are only so few pdf that will show you actual spectrum, and there are always the same few manufacturers that show intentional vague data of the spectrum (thick unrealistic plots)

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 07:59:13 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on May 03, 2019, 11:14:27 pmI agree; I much prefer linear fluorescent tubes to any other form of lighting for the reasons you give. In addition, desk mount fixtures which hold two 2 foot tubes for close in lighting are available and tubes are available with whatever color rendering you prefer. I find that a mixture of cool and warm tubes works best but there are lots of options.Power line EMI has become so strong that I do not notice any addition from electronic ballasts for linear fluorescent tubes. The designs I have inspected use soft switching topologies like resonate Royer converters so maybe that is why.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 08:17:35 pm
content: for years I used a lamp with G23 socket and fluorescent bulb what often required to be turned off when it interfered too much with the scope; then I found led bulbs matching for the socket - what a surprise: EMI was even worse than with the fluorescence bulb. just recently I decommissioned it and got me a led lamp with integrated magnifying glass - which is free of EMI and does a good light (day light 6600K)

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 09:23:18 pm
content: Back in the days, when all ballasts were magnetic, the thumb rule was to always use a dual-tube ballasts.The reason was that fluorescent tubes flickered tremendously, which could strain your eyes.On a dual-tube ballast, one of the tube currents was phase sifted with the aid of series caps, such that as one tube was going down in brightness, the other was reaching peak luminosity.This was eliminated with high frequency ballasts in the 90s. However the newer cheap designs do away with most if not all the bulk powerline filtering, and therefore the high frequency carrier is modulated with powerline frequencies.

author: akowalczyk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 06:22:34 am
content: Cheap LED strips on Ebay can work great, they aren't a point source so you have less shadows. Figuring out a fixture to hold them can be a bit of a problem though, my roomate and I came up with a PVC frame held up by thick magnet wire and wall hooks. Only fell down a few times...and fortunately never when we were soldering

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 02:35:20 pm
content: can you please share some link what kind of those one, (As there are a lot of led strips now a days I'm not taking risk that i buy some different with poor result)do they get hot with time?thanks,

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 02:44:10 pm
content: i have 2x 50W 95%CRI YUJI leds in my smallish lab.Plenty of light and good quality light too.If you think 100W of light is overkill for a small lab, you're wrong.This would be overkillhttps://store.yujiintl.com/collections/frontpage/products/yujileds-bc-series-high-cri-cob-led-900h-1500w-pack-1pcs

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 04:54:27 am
content: Quote from: Psi on May 14, 2019, 02:44:10 pmWhat format bulb are you using? Are you using just their high CRI emitters on your own heatsink etc.? The Yuji LED's phosphors appear much better.I'm a bit tired of pissing around with 10W-50W LED's mounting them on a heatsink, adding lens etc. and trying to beat an Ikea desk lampYuji wants $499 USD for a desk lamp.I've been trying GU10's with E17 adapters and such. But the GU10 is so narrow beam, it's like a flashlight.Something that could mount on 2020 hardware would be great for making LED lighting.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 05:15:19 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 16, 2019, 04:54:27 amyep, just two 50W cob emitter on a large heatsink and slow speed fan. I have a 30cm x 30cm diffuser sheet mounted over it to make it look a bit better and prevent it casting hard shadows.

author: Housedad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 06:29:29 am
content: My lab is in my basement. There already were six fixtures with (4) cool white t-12 bulbs each, and I added six 4 ft daylight t-8 2 bulb shop lights over the benches.I really like the effect even though my wife says that if I add any more the house will start to fly from the photon pressures. 😎

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 07:35:39 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on May 06, 2019, 09:12:24 pmCRI is somewhat meaningless for video. You'd actually be better off with RGB LED lighting where the spectral peaks of each LED match the peak sensitivity of the RGB elements of the sensor.For my own lab and for recording videos, I have around 200W of LED lighting - they're all Enlite 10W LED fittings, however I do not find these as effective as the 54W T5 tubes I used to use.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 01:45:19 pm
content: I've started using my CRI >95 Aputue HR672 studio lights for both talking head shots and bench videos. The colour balance is so much nicer now.Also just got an AL-F7 for on-camera use, but haven't used that in a video yet, it's for field stuff. Very nice portable CRI>95 compact light.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 01:50:36 pm
content: I have a pretty much continuous row of panels mounted under the shelves over my bench + general generous LED lighting in the rest of the room. Get decent brand LEDs so the CRI isn't complete shite.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2019, 02:41:41 am
content: I have one of those LED panels mounted to the bottom of the motorized projector drop down box.So it looks like a panel light when the projector is up.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2019, 05:17:42 pm
content: I have all LED lights in my house, lab included. An only exception is one desk lamp that is color balanced. I use that to evaluate photographic printing.I have no issues or problems with LED lights. One of the things I did was to be careful with color temperature. "Living space" is all 3000K. Task rooms are 4000K with 5000K supplemental lights. Garages and outside lights are all 5000K. Color temperature makes huge difference.In task room, lab included, I have two general light fixture in middle of the ceiling. They are 4000K. They light the room sufficiently. But desks are against the wall, so my task area (where I have my stuff and hand) are in shade. So I have 5000K rod type LED light (flour-scent lamp replacement) at 5000K. This is hanging 3 feet above my desktop.In my computer / office / general purpose room, I have SEVEN light fixtures. They are all 4000K. I have an option to turn center one only or turn all of them on.This arrangement made my life much easier. There are no dimming but I can turn on and off extra lights. By the way, in my garage, I have TWELVE light fixtures. LED lights are great. Low power consumption, low heat, and pretty darn bright. Sometimes light dispersion pattern can be an issue but when I have this many, it doesn't matter. Yes, I am an electrician and this is my house.

author: barjammar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2019, 07:52:43 am
content: Hi Dave and Co,I am setting up a workbench and need advice on What is the best lighting to use?I'm going to install more Altronics LED strips, but COOL or WARM? What is best for Youtube videos? My videos (if I ever do one) will be amateur quality but I may as well use the LED's I have already.See them here:https://www.altronics.com.au/p/x3208a-10mm-warm-white-12-volt-led-strip-light-5m/https://www.altronics.com.au/p/x3203a-cool-white-12-volt-led-strip-light-5m/See attached images of products.Barry