How to wire this washing machine motor? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 01:52:17 am
content: Hi everyone!I got this washing machine motor from the curb side collection and i want to know how to wire it but all the wires are the same colourThanks

author: wemme
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 02:55:29 am
content: These are usually DC brushless motors and are common with the alternative energy lot for making windmills etc from.What are you trying to do with it?RegardsBart

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 06:45:11 am
content: Quote from: wemme on August 14, 2015, 02:55:29 amI just want to use a motor speed controller with this motorThanks

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 08:36:03 am
content: It depends on what sort of motor it is. Some, especially the older, machines use a brushed universal motor but many modern machines use a brushless AC (not DC) motor.Post a picture of the motor showing the windings and see for yourself if it has carbon brushes.A brushed motor is easy to drive. A brushless AC motor needs an inverter.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 10:35:08 am
content: I have similar ideas underway. I have some machines, some don't work because controller is fried. But the motors are good. If you look at the back of the machine for power consumption, it tells you how powerful the motor is, which is most of the power consumption. You only need about 500w for a nice home made table saw, and motors are hard to get and break down, so washer ones are great.http://www.scribd.com/doc/8558619/Washing-Machine-Motor-ControllerI found that one, it looks not too bad, there are other ones too. I should post some pics of the one I want to work on too, because someone might know for both, who knows.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 03:11:36 pm
content: This looks like a typical brushed AC washing machine motor.If so, you will find that as least two wires are connecting to a tach generator for speed control feedback and connect to the very rear of the motor. You will also notice that two other wires of the remaining wires are isolated from the remaining pair. You can easily detect which of the wires are connected to the brushes by using a ohm meter and hand-rotating the shaft to see that there is a point where the resistance jumps as the brushes contact the gap between armature windings. You will also see that the brushes are connected with faston push connectors and they can be disconnected from the carbon brushes to easily identify the wires going to the brushes.The remaining two wires would be connected to two SPDT relays that reverse the connections to this winding to reverse motor direction. This winding is then connected in series through the reversing relays to the remaining winding. AC power is directly applied to these two serially connected windings with a serially connected TRIAC for speed control.Motor control can easily accomplished with an inexpensive Ardruino MCU dev. board or, even simpler, using a Microchip PIC ICThe 120 or 240V AC mains power can be modulated to control the speed and torque of this kind of motor with a TRIAC that is phase modulated with respect to the mains waveform by using a trigger pulse delay derived from the 50 or 60Hz crossover point time reference. The tach output can be bridge rectified with 4 small-signal switching diodes and provide a DC voltage output that is lightly filtered to provide a voltage directly proportional to motor speed. This voltage can be measured by the A2D input of the MCU to provide feedback for motor speed control. A software timer created by the MCU counts down the delay from each 50/60Hz crossover point to exact the delay for the TRIAC trigger each 50/60Hz half-cycle. Decreasing the delay from cross-over to trigger point increases power to the motor. Just a few lines of code can create the variable delay time.There have been several postings here that show how to create a zero-crossing detector with just a few commonly available parts to have a precise TRIAC timing delay reference point.You can then use a MOC3023 opto-isolated random TRIAC trigger IC to trigger the high power TRIAC used for motor control. It is a small 6-pin device.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 04:16:21 pm
content: if you can give me ideas to draw the circuit, I will draw it. I do not yet have proper electrical drawing software, it wouldn't install, but are any of the above a starting point that you can describe changes and I can draw what you mean ?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 04:21:06 pm
content: Can't you get a clue from what's driving it?I am very dubious about it being an ordinary AC motor, even with multiple speed windings, with THAT MANY wires to connect sit.Six or seven wires suggests to me something more like a "high-efficiency" "inverter motor" that requires separate drivers for each of the stator windings.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 04:25:14 pm
content: fir ricks motor, i do not know, my motor I have not taken pics yet. I hope I do not cause confusion or hijack the thread.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 05:25:23 pm
content: 6 wires all the same colour same thickness, plus earth says it is a 3 phase motor needing either the inverter board that was part of the washing machine, or an external small 1kW inverter. You will find that there are 3 sets of windings, so you either connect them to the inverter in star or delta, and drive it with the inverter.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 05:36:52 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 14, 2015, 05:25:23 pmA universal motor is another possibility: two wires for the encoder, two for the armature and two for the field windings. There's no way to know without a proper photograph.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 06:37:58 am
content: I once had a Haier washing machine that used a large permanent magnet DC motor driven by a triac. The controller used phase angle controlled pulses for the wash cycle (changing the polarity for reversing the drum) and the entire half wave for the spin cycle.

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 06:39:22 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on August 14, 2015, 04:21:06 pmThats disappointing that its one of the new fancy high efficiency inverter motors. (Especially because i under estimated the weight of the washing machine and when i tipped it over i ripped my deltoid and my biceps on my right arm and it crashed on to the road. The people who put it there where NOT happy about having to move it again) I think its good that appliances are more efficient but for hobbyists that can some times be good and can sometimes be bad. I don't know if i can be bothered to run that motor now because i don't want to risk blowing something up and electrocuting my self.Thanks for your help

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 06:45:48 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 14, 2015, 04:16:21 pmThanks for your help, i have decided to give up on this motor as it is an "inverter high efficiency" motor and i am more likely to blow up something and blow my self up than get it to work. If your motor is just a normal motor that go for it but i think i might just keep my eye out for other motors.Again, thanks for your help

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 08:26:41 am
content: You could hook it up to a VFD - Don't know what to use a ~15000 rpm motor for, milling maybe?

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 08:34:26 am
content: Quote from: rickselectricalprojects on August 15, 2015, 06:45:48 amYou're welcome.If I may ask, can you take the motor apart any further so everyone can have a look at the windings please? If that is possible. and there is time.

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 08:39:58 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 15, 2015, 08:34:26 amSure i can take the motor apart. Currently i have a really bad fever but i should post the pictures of the motor asap

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 08:47:15 am
content: Quote from: rickselectricalprojects on August 15, 2015, 08:39:58 amand get well soon. !!!

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 02:25:16 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 15, 2015, 08:47:15 amThank you!If i can unscrew the motor tonight (it has some odd screws on it) then i will post the pictures tonight but if i cant then some time this week

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 05:17:54 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 15, 2015, 08:34:26 amI took it apart and it has carbon brushes and i found two little terminals on the side of the motor and the resistance is 2.9 ohms and when i spin the thing that connects to the belt i get 18mv ac and 88 mv dc when i spin it as fast as i can.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 06:53:37 am
content: ooooh this is brilliant, hey, where are the conductors ? do they go through the plastic? part with D1 D2 D3 written on it, or are the scrapped already ?

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 06:55:46 am
content: I figure the part that makes the voltage is the tachometer, so that the washing machine won't spin out of control in the back and forth washing part when it is pretty much empty, and will put more effort into the back and forth when it is full of water and clothes.

author: AlanR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 08:41:47 am
content: Usually washing machines will use one of the following:High frequency design 3-phase AC induction motorSplit phase AC induction motorUniversal motorsor Brushless DC motorsFrom the pictures you have shown, the motor is universal. To control torque you control the current and to control the speed you control the voltage.BTW, I find it odd that some people say brushless AC motors when this motor type has been brushless since 1888 when it was first created. It's really not proper usage. You only say brushless when the motor at time of invention, was not brushless, such as the DC motor. If anything, people should say brushed AC motor for when brushes are used for motors such as slip ring types, which are very rare motor types. Every AC induction motor from single phase to high power industrial 3-phase motors will 99% of the time be brushless......... The universal motor does not count as an AC motor since it works on DC also. It should be called universal.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 09:40:25 am
content: Yes, it's a universal motor.Two of the wires is for the tachometer.Two for the field coils.Two for the armature.Normally the field is simply connected in series with the armature. The problem is, under no load conditions, the motor will over speed, so the controller reads the speed from the tachometer and reduces the amount of power delivered to the motor.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:21:15 am
content: Curious asymmetrical brush placement (angle), I'd have expected them to be at 90' for a reversible motor.Anyway, it looks as if you could put it back together (maybe give the commutator a bit of a clean) and use it with an ordinary speed controller as you originally intended.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 01:46:25 pm
content: Ok, so I went and had a good look at my washer machine motor, and the wiring, and I haven't worked out all of the wiring yet, but as for the motor, it has 3 wires running into it. The earth wire is connected elsewhere to the metal frame it's mounted on, so not connected through the three wires.I do wonder how would they be getting Forward, Reverse, and Spin from 3 wires ? Forward and Reverse being slow speed for the washing.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 02:05:02 pm
content: There is a cap that is switched in or out I think, looking further.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 05:15:39 pm
content: In the OP motor the brushes are not symmetrical because for washing the motor runs at a low speed, but for spin the brushes are angled for the most efficiency in the single spin direction. The low speed running is not going to be much extra wear running in each direction.As the Chicken motor with a 3 wire PSC motor there is a small extra motor on the bottom of the drum that operates a gearbox. Unenergised it brakes the main drum, and allows the inner agitator to run free in both directions. When powered it releases the brake, and engages a lock that allows the drum and agitator to turn together using a gearbox built into the base, with the proviso that the drum and agitator will only turn in one direction at high speed for the spin cycle and free wheel using a clutch. Thus you have either agitator turning in either direction at low speed during wash cycle, and for spin it runs only at one speed in one direction to dry. The motor is a motor with a split capacitor, reversible by choosing which enmd of the capacitor has power applied via some TRIAC switches on the control board. There is a provision for gentle wash by cycle skipping, driving the motor with alternate half cycles of the mains to drop the speed low.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 06:20:58 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 18, 2015, 05:15:39 pmAh, I did find other connections for a brake and a brake motor, which seemed separate to the rest. I hadn't seen a connection between that and the main motor but I had not looked. I'll have a look. The connections for the brake motor are not shown in the circuit yet.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 06:58:57 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 18, 2015, 01:46:25 pmA reversable motor with a capacitor and 3 terminals is typically wired like this IME....

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 08:42:44 am
content: I went and had another good look at the brake, and it's complex and sure enough, you were right, it has a gearbox indeed. Shifts gears to spin the tun rather than the column in the middle.Checked the wiring too, and drew in your suggestion as well. Only thing I wonder at is why one side of the capacitor is brought into the controller first, and the other side joins on the outside.

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 10:44:08 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 18, 2015, 06:55:46 amThe terminals on the side are connected directly to the carbon brushes.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 10:46:16 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 18, 2015, 06:53:37 amThe part with D1 D2 D3 clips on to the big coil that is the middle piece of the the body (not the spinny thing)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 10:53:37 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 18, 2015, 09:40:25 amThank you!I had a look around for and i found this video on how to wire a universal motor the way i want to wire ithttp://youtu.be/Hgf0apXNwSAHe has another video where he gets a microwave transformer and the same motor and they have a fighthttp://youtu.be/I1ZxK3DhKuYSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 01:30:57 pm
content: I think it cannot be wired this way, because there would be both windings in parallel and no cap in the way I drew it.