Advanced diploma electronics at TAFE (kinda want Dave to answer this question)  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: CuteNotGate
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 03:46:43 pm
content: Hi i'm 17 and live in NSW Australia.I'm not so confident in my maths skills and shit at it, so i have chosen to do an advanced diploma electronics at TAFE (Mount Druitt). I all ways wanted to design electronics for power electronics or digital electronics systems for PCB for GPU's. Do you think TAFE is an good starting point for this ? I know i won't be an engineer but more of an technician with that advanced diploma qualification. The head teacher of electrical/electronics at the Mount Druitt TAFE has an YouTube channel/website. With his videos/website what he uses to teaches in the courses at TAFE. I have been looking at this for an while now. Can you look at the links below and then and judge them to see if they are technical for what i wanna do and give me some guidance if i'm making the right choice ?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChwUMjD6ed5KhQbO1gLm9fQ/videoshttp://www.learn.org.au/

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 03:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 22, 2019, 03:46:43 pmThe thing about math is that no one gets born being good at it. Even people who have advanced to field have needed to put in the work to get good. Be bad at it until you become good at it, but never stop working on it.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 04:46:19 pm
content: Having a prof that posts youtube videos is a good sign. It is also a good sign that you enjoy watching them and have a clue what you want to do at 17. All I wanted to do at that age was snowboard. But now I have diploma and degree and am happy for both.Not sure how it is in Aus but I'll share my story from Canada. I went to 2 year college diploma in electronics then worked my way up until I was doing same work as engineers but for 2/3 the pay and 1/2 the respect. I returned to school, got my engineering degree, learned and remembered less applicable engineering material in 3 years there than I did in 2 years of college but now I get more job offers, better pay and more respect so it was worth it.Something that could help your decision is; will your diploma give credits towards a degree, incase you ever plan to get one?Another good question to ask is of the school, tell them what you want to do and ask them if they cover it. I tried that in uni and profs enthusiasticaly explained their material seemingly in an attempt to recruit me.I never planned to return for degree untill I sat in an aweful job for a while and then noticed I was almost 30 and still far from my goals. Had I taken the initiative to do side projects and networking and stuff like that, I might not have needed the degree to move forward in my career but I didn't so instead, I used more schooling to push myself forward.

author: StreuB1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:56:58 am
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 22, 2019, 03:46:43 pmThis is my first post on this forum and I feel I must reply to this as its far too important. You are our future right now and its imperative you understand a few things, you might not just yet but hopefully you will.Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 22, 2019, 03:46:43 pmOk, this is the comment that made me comment. When graduated from HS, I was not great at maths.....and I'm still not.....but it didn't hold me back and actually benefited me in the long run. I'll tell you my story.The fall after I graduated HS I went on to community (Junior) college and took College Algebra. Everything was ok until we got to matricies and I fell on my face. I mean, I didn't just NOT get them. I didn't get them so hard that I told myself that there was no way I could be an engineer and get through the calculus "Trifecta" if I couldn't even get past this. So.....I dropped out of college. My first semester.....done. I then went to work in a hardware store because I was good with mechanics and machining, plumbing, electrics, etc. Then went to work as a machinist for $7/hr in a dirty place called Scot Industries (some might know that name actually!). After that I was hired at another company for $9.25/hr doing assembly of utility distribution systems for kitchens and large facilities. I had drafting experience from HS and that coupled with my talent for mechanical things allowed me to move from the shop and into the office into Sales Engineering....then into Production Engineering and then into R&D. I flourished there.The company was consolidated and I lost my job after 7 years and was unemployed but at the time there was an incentive program for displaced workers. You could go to school while on unemployment for retraining for what I thought was 2 years. During that time I took 4 classes a semester in Industrial Electricity, PLC programming, etc. I loved it. Unfortunately I didn't understand something with the program and my benefits ran out after a year.....full stop. So I had to jump back into the workforce and drop school which broke my heart. I went back to a shit job working in a place that makes bumpers for trains but 4 weeks later Mitutoyo Corporation (yes, the company that makes calipers and micrometers) reached out to me and offered me a job as a CNC screw machine operator for $15/hr compared to the $9 I was making. I jumped at it in a heartbeat. After 2 weeks there I was promoted from L1 to L3 machinist and the managers learned I had an engineering background. They asked me why I was working in a machine shop and I told them that I had to pay the bills to live and I had no degree. They had no room to move me into the office at the time but they were very intrigued and moved me off the production line and into the machine shop machining special projects and specialized short run measuring items for customers as well as doing the precision grinding and shaping of the screw machine tooling from blanks. After 4mo there, I was approached by my current company and they made an offer for $43k/yr as a design engineer. I gave my notice at Mitutoyo and on my last day, a cake was brought out for me with a card signed by everyone in the shop.....and signed in Japanese by the managers in the office. One of the managers from Japan told me that he knew right away that if Mitutoyo didn't get me into the office, someone else would and he lamented that they didn't have the opportunity yet to take advantage of it. I obviously made an impression and it made me feel amazing for once.At my current company, I have been there since 2004 and have done everything from Design, to R&D to new product to test to....you get the idea. I have a patent for which I am the sole inventor (very rare in a company these days) and I have a good future there. In 2010 I became single again after 4 years and after some soul searching, I decided to try maths again. The spring of 2011 I registered at College of Dupage and tested into College Algebra and while I did receive an A in the class, it was so taxing on me that I told myself I cannot do it and gave up again. This was the 3rd time I have given up on school.Fast forward to 2015. I had a knee surgery in Feb of that year and was off work on disability for 3mo because of not being able to drive and sitting at home that long makes you think about things. I asked myself "Brian, what is your endgame? Do you truly love what you are doing right now? What are you going to do if you lose your job again? Are you marketable? Are you going to get lucky again?"That June I went back to work and dove back into the mess. That summer, the questions I had asked myself while recovering in the spring haunted me. It all came to a head that August when I had a blowup with some mates and I told myself "Quit screwing around, this is not you. You need to graduate from college with your engineering degree and then you can soar." So, that fall I took an Algebra refresher course and in the Spring of 2016 I started Pre Calculus 1; I struggled but passed with a B+. Oh and BTW, I friggin OWNED matrices!!! My professor spent some time with me until I had that "Ah HA!" moment and after that, I just got them. Feeling confident, I enrolled in Pre Calculus 2 over the summer and it became apparent that was a mistake and ended up withdrawing a month later. That fall I retook PC2 and got an A.In the spring of 2017 it was time for the big league...Calculus. It was only 1 month into Calc1 that I knew I was WAYYY over my head. I ended up withdrawing at the last withdraw date and felt like a failure. I spent that summer lamenting about it and wondering if this was right. Maybe I wasn't meant for engineering. Maybe I wasn't a "maths person." I was determined though and I enrolled in Calc1 again in the fall of 2017, this time a much more difficult professor. He was really not very nice but I was not going to let that deter me and I kept at it. I spent a lot of time talking to my prof after class so he know my situation and could give me some guidance. I ended up withdrawing from that class as well but he let me still sit in on lecture so I still went to class every week as if I was in class but I sat in the hall during tests. This really showed him my dedication and I will tell you this....professors talk to each other. More on that later.So this was 2 withdraw from Calc1.....it was personal now. I was determined to not give up no matter how many times I took the damn class. I make enough money now where the cost of class is a fraction of one of my paychecks....its not about the money at this point. I am going to learn and get good at calculus and thats the end of it.I enrolled in Calc1 for the 3rd time in the Spring of 2018 and got the same professor again. Long story short.....I ended up getting a B- in that class. See, at COd there is a bit of an unwritten understanding with the professors in upper level maths. If you don't withdraw and you are not going to pass, they will withdraw YOU from the class as they will not allow a student who pours their heart into a class, to get an F on their transcripts. After class was over with, my professor told me that he felt confident in not letting me withdraw this time and not withdrawing me because he saw a defined transition in my examinations that told him I was understanding now and wasn't just doing things from memory. He knew I got it at that point and knew I was ready as I could be for Calc2.Over the summer, I spent every day in the Learning Commons Maths center basically working my way though the Calc2 part of the book to give myself a leg up for the fall. Calc2 is notoriously difficult so I wanted to have the best chance at passing it the first time around. As class went by this past fall, I slowly and slowly got behind. I just can't uptake the information fast enough....its how my brain works. I ended up withdrawing from Calc2 on Nov. 14th this past fall. I felt terrible again....I felt a failure like never before. Its weighed heavily on me to be honest. My first night at class for my 2nd try at Calc2 is tomorrow night at 7pm and I am apprehensive but I am going to give it what I have.There is a lot missing from this story....the amount of work I put in and its something that is nearly impossible to explain. For my 2nd and 3rd round at Calc1 and 1st round at Calc2, I spent easily double to amount of time studying that other students would. I would go to the math center after work until 8pm every day I didn't have class. I had 2 tutors and went twice a week (1hr each). I spent sat and sunday in the math center for 3hrs each day. Thats on top of spending every lunch hour on a white board and both 15min breaks as well doing maths. I became notorious at COD and still am. I became a fixture in the math center and I had no shame in that I kept failing.....but it became very known to all the professors that I was in it for the long haul. Once you cross that threshold....they take notice and you begin getting respected in a very different way and you begin getting help others might not get. My tutors now tutor me outside of school and they do it for free because they enjoy tutoring me. What I leaned through all this is that I learn differently that others.....I must understand something and not just know it. I must understand its inner workings, why it works, how it works, etc. Not just memorize it for an exam and then done. It was apparent to my professors and tutors that a passion for maths was growing inside of me and they began nurturing it.I still suck at maths.....but I refuse to give up and now....I am minoring in maths.My point to all of this is do not sell yourself short, do not tell yourself you cannot do something because once you do, you begin to REALLY believe it. Everyone says "Don't live in the past, everything happens for a reason."I regret few things but one thing I do regret.....dropping out of school 3 times. Learning higher level maths when you are 41 is horribly difficult. My brain is far less flexible than your 17yo brain and I would sell my soul to the devil to go back to 2003 and find a way to stay in school or to 2011 and tell myself I can do it and to just stick it out. It breaks my heart because I know I would have my degree now and be in a better place doing better things.Enroll in the hardest classes you can. The worst thing that happens is that you have to take them again. Ignore the money.....you can always make more of that. You can't make more time.The only good thing I have to show for my regret is I am a sole inventor on a patent for a very technical device and a patent is one of the holy grails for any engineer. Thing is, I would trade that patent for a degree anyday.Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 22, 2019, 03:46:43 pmEnroll in engineering classes, do it. You will not regret it in 10 years time. I promise you.

author: StreuB1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:08:43 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 22, 2019, 03:58:09 pmRead my above "novel"I couldn't agree more

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:20:59 am
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 22, 2019, 03:46:43 pmWhat were your other options?Did you get enough HSC marks to get into a Uni engineering course?QuoteIt's a good starting point, yes.QuoteOnly if you believe that.Engineering is a vocation, the type of work that you do,notthe qualification that you have.An engineering degree (4 years) doesnotmake you an engineer. It only makes you aqualifiedengineer.In the same way a 3 year diploma in engineering doesnotmake you a technician or associate engineer (technically, in oz, "technician" is (or was) a 2 year course.Only when you get a job and do engineering or technical work will you classed as either an engineer or a technician, or whatever it is.Here in Australia qualifications don't matter much, and there is zero regulation on who can practice engineering (at least in electronics).There is nothing stopping someone with a two or three year certificate or diploma engineering course (or even no qualifications) from applying for a "engineering" level job. In fact it is quite common here in Australia.There are some regulated industries like medical and government who want you to be eligible for professional membership of the IEA (i.e. 4 year degree), but most other companies don't care.And there are also jobs where a 4 year degree is not enough, they want a Masters, or a PhD. So even a 4 year degree is no magic bullet.QuoteWe need to know your other choices first.But it's a great thing that a head teacher there is doing these types of videos.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:30:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 02:20:59 amI'd say it makes you an engineer with a qualification. ( that is subtly different )

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:45:23 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 23, 2019, 02:30:44 amBut that makes no difference to what you can call yourself, or what other people call you. If a company hires you as an engineering, you are an engineer either way.If you want you can register with the IEA and get to put MIEA after your name, but the number of practicing electronics people in Australia who even bother to do that is pretty minuscule.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:03:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 02:45:23 amWhats an engineer?

author: CuteNotGate
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 05:29:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 02:20:59 amThe option that i was hopping for ishttps://www.usq.edu.au/study/degrees/associate-degree-of-engineering/electrical-electronic-engineeringbut i did not get the offer. So the only option i have left is an advanced diploma at TAFE.Failed it, ATAR of 35. No entry in to any uni.Subjects that I was doing are:General Mathematics 2(Band 2)Standard English(Band 2)Studies of Religion 1(Band 4)Software Design and Development(Band 3)Physics(Band 2)Industrial Technology-Multimedia(Band 5)* You can not do engineering at uni level with General Mathematics 2. The minimum is advanced mathematics.* Band meanings.https://arc2.nesa.nsw.edu.au/page/faq

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 05:52:30 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 23, 2019, 03:03:34 amSomeone who does engineering for a living.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:02:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 05:52:30 amI'd say you don't even need to do it for a living. You can be a violinist without doing it professionally too.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:05:57 am
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 23, 2019, 05:29:46 amI have not looked at the details of that USQ course syllabus, but surely a three year TAFE associate diploma is going to trump a two year "associate degree" ?Seems deceptive that any two year course has "degree" in the title. Standard for any sort of associate "degree" in engineering is 3 years, both in Australia and overseas.IIRC the IEA recognise qualifications are- 4 years = full member- 3 years = associate member (seems to be called "technologist" now)- 2 years = technician (now called "associate")But like I said, hardly anyone in electronics joins the IEA, but it's a useful reference.In this country you can call yourself a "professional engineer" (as can your employer) if you do engineering as a profession, the IEA have no say in anything. For electronics anyway.https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/Membership/Assessment-ProcessQuoteBummer. Only other avenue would be mature age entry, which IIRC is still 21.Although to can apply for an interview with the dean, but you've usually got to have other things under your belt first.QuoteWTF is wrong with this country that that's even an option?QuoteYep, they throw your straight into reasonably advanced calculus in an engineering degree.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:19:55 am
content: Course structurehttps://www.usq.edu.au/handbook/current/engineering-built-environment/ADNG.html#enrolment.pattern7Nope, the 3 year TAFE diploma would be far superior, as your expect in a 2 year vs 3 year program. Do the TAFE diploma.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:21:19 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 23, 2019, 06:02:17 amNope, that makes you a hobbyist or amateur, not a professional, regardless of how good you are at it.When you say "I'm a professional xxxxxxxx" it implies that it's what you do as a full time profession (hence the word).Saying "I'm an engineer" kinda implies you are a "professional engineer".I'm a qualified fitness instructor, but I don't go around calling myself a fitness instructor because I've never done it for a living.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:31:19 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 06:21:19 amApologies, I thought the question was what an "engineer" is instead of a "professional engineer". '"Professional" denotes making living wages, yes.

author: CuteNotGate
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:36:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 06:05:57 amIts an option, its not mandatory if your in a public school but is compulsory in a catholic school. At least i got an final mark in 70's but it was an waist of an unit.So TAFE is the way to go then. But there are more then 1 advanced diploma in electronics thoughhttps://www.tafensw.edu.au/courses/electrotechnology-courses

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 06:36:39 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 23, 2019, 06:31:19 amI missed that the said just "engineer". My point still stands though, I don't call myself a fitness instructor, and given that I only do fitness as a hobby, at best I'm a "fitness hobbyist" or "fitness amateur" despite being qualified. I'd make the same argument for "engineer". Amateur engineers have always called themselves hobbyists.If I stopped doing engineering as a living or a hobby, I'd call myself a "former engineer" at best.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:20:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 06:36:39 amI understand where you're coming from. I'm probably looking more at the term in the etymological sense, with it originally meaning "cleverly devising". I guess that's trade versus activity.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:33:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 06:36:39 amIs one of the primary activitys of an engineer toRANT?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:50:40 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 23, 2019, 07:20:04 amI've never really heard many electronics hobbyists call themselves an engineer, it just doesn't seem to be a thing. Unlike a person who plays the violin I can imagine them calling themselves a "violinist".Many qualified software engineers would call themselves a programmer, but I've never really heard a hobbyist programmer call themselves a software engineer?The term engineer seems to quite vocationally oriented.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:51:10 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 23, 2019, 07:33:43 am"Inform"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:07:36 am
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 23, 2019, 06:36:36 amYou want to Electronics one:https://www.tafensw.edu.au/course/-/c/c/UEE61711-01/Advanced-Diploma-of-Engineering-Technology-Electronics

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 10:12:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 07:50:40 amModel Train Engineers. They most def think they are engineers. and nobody is paying.

author: StreuB1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:07:36 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 23, 2019, 07:33:43 amYES!!!

author: StreuB1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:09:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 07:50:40 amI would completely agree.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 12:07:25 pm
content: I teach at university part time, but this is my personal opinion only. I did an undergraduate degree and a PhD in electrical engineering, and I deal with maybe 500 undergrad students every year. (If one of my students ever reads this, hi!). I personally don’t think that a degree makes an engineer (much like Dave has said), but it sure does help, even only as a way to get your foot in the door.First, just to cut it off, I’ve never heard of any sort of GPU PCB stuff happening in Australia. I suspect it’s mostly just reference designs out of the US companies, which are then modified by the OEMs in Asia. That’s not to say it’s something you can’t do, but it’s pretty unlikely to be in Australia. There is certainly PCB work, but GPUs specifically I’m not so sure.Can I suggest that you perhaps ask some companies what they would expect in terms of qualifications ? It is my experience that having an engineering degree generally gives you access to better paying and more interesting jobs, although the latter is subjective. Whether or not is should be that way is another argument which I will not involve myself inI’m not sure I know of anyone who designs serious PCBs but is employed by their company as a technician. Particularly with complex designs (high frequency, high power, etc), you need to be aware that the PCB is very much part of your circuit, so you need to have a good understanding of how the circuit works as much as you need skills in general PCB design.I obviously don’t know of your experience, but I regularly see students who consider mathematics to be their weak point. Heck, I consider that to be mine too (among lots of other things!). I think it is exceedingly rare to find someone who doesn’t struggle with the sort of maths you would use in some areas of engineering; in fact, the reason most simulation tools exist is because the maths is either too difficult or too much work for the average engineer. People also seem to learn very differently; some are great at absorbing it in a traditional classroom setting, whereas some need to do it themselves repeatedly (I’m in the latter category). All I’m trying to say is that if you don’t care about maths, then you might struggle doing electronics. But if you just find it difficult or intimidating but see the value in it, perhaps there are other learning strategies that might work better for you.

author: CuteNotGate
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 12:41:09 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on January 23, 2019, 12:07:25 pmYea pretty much its all done over in silicon valley or any other overseas cooperation. I'm all ways been interested in the circuits in computer hardware. The careers adviser at my high school said to me "even if i had the aptitude to do an bachelors in electronic engineering you wont be able to get to do want you want to do, because its done elsewhere other then Australia e.g. Intel and Nvidia" That's why I wanna a do an advanced diploma in electronics it requires an less mathematical ability that I think I should be able to handle it. But I was reading some where that electronics technician are become an less of importance in this age, because of the no need for repairing any electronic equipment when you could just get an new one unless for the militarily.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:20:16 pm
content: Around here, Calc I is a 1st semester class in an engineering program and that assumes you have the equivalent knowledge of Pre-Calc which is a two semester class. Pre-Calc assumes a decent background from high school. But 2 semesters is a full year and it doesn't even count toward graduation. That's one of the reasons engineering programs are now more typically 5 years than 4. And don't even think about skipping Pre-Calc, you will struggle mightily with the low level details when you take Calc I. There is a saying that "Calculus is easy, it's Pre-Calc that's difficult!". It's a fair assessment. Here's a hint: Don't take Pre-Calc I as a short summer class.Given the Internet and resources like Khan Academy and CalcWorkshop (fee), math is getting more approachable. There are so many tutorials just watch some and see how it works out. NancyPi is good (and easy on the eyes). Her channel used to be MathBff.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:44:27 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on January 23, 2019, 12:07:25 pmIME most companies don't care about qualifications, and it usually goes down the bottom of your resume as a footnote here in Australia as a result.As you said though, it help you get your foot in the door, and is essential insomejobs, but once oyu have experience that is what companies care about.QuoteMost electronics design work does not require complex math, and you can go your entire career without ever needing to use calculus for example.Of course there aresomejobs you might use it daily, but I think if you polled the design engineers on here you'll find they hardly need it.That's not to say it's not important etc, and you certainly need to know the concepts.The issue here is that the OP can't get into university, he doesn't have the grades, isn't mature age, and likely doesn't have much experience to special plead to the dean with.So really the 3 year TAFE diploma is the go, with the option to transfer into uni later if desired.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 11:44:27 pmsimple problem. A capacitor attached to a fixed DC rail ( and GND ). At time t, after the rail is turned on, what is the current flowing into the cap?What branch of mathmatics do you use to solve this problem.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 23, 2019, 12:41:09 pmIf you get the 3 year diploma you are not a "technician" unless you take a job as a technician!I'll say it again, your title is not described by your qualifications, it is described by what job you do.There is nothing stopping a diploma qualified person from applying to jobs that advertise a degree as a minimum requirement. Here in Australia they often just put that minimum as a token of what they expect. There are cases where you may not get passed HR without it, so you go around HR and straight to.The hard part is getting that first engineering job (with or without a degree), and then you have something to sell yourself with.I've done videos on job interview tips, and one of the main things is to work on project so you have something to show off and take along. If all you have on your resume if your qualifications you aren't going to stand out, regardless of what those qualifications are.As an employer, many times I've got people in with lesser (or even no) qualifications but with lots of interesting hobby projects under their belt over someone that got the university medal but otherwise has nothing else to show.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:59:52 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 23, 2019, 11:54:34 pmthe google search branch:https://planetcalc.com/1980/(sorry, bad joke, please ignore me)

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:48:37 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 23, 2019, 11:54:34 pmExponentials are covered in Algebra I according to Khan Academy. Really, Vc = Vs(1-e-t/Tau) is pretty simple.Now, i = C * dv/dt probably has to wait until Calc I. It can be hand-waved much earlier. If we include a series resistor, it is much easier: i = V/R * (e-t/Tau) V is the applied voltage.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:03:59 am
content: Maybe electronic engineering deals with signals. Here math goes completely off the rails with Laplace Transforms, Fourier Analysis and the ever popular Fast Fourier Transform. Yes, these are just tools but it takes a dumpster full of math books to get them in your toolbox. Fortunately, MATLAB will do the grunt work. All the engineer needs to do is set up the problem. Which always was the hard part!How about an RLC circuit? Seems simple enough, it simply produces the electrical equivalent of damped harmonic motion. No big deal! A second order differential equation can solve it easy enough. Oh wait, doesn't Differential Equations come after Calc III or, sometimes, after Calc II? Wherever, it's pretty far along the path!Of course, for differential equations, 'solving' has a different meaning. It's not like x=3 is a result.All of these things are learnable. There are some terrific resources and even community colleges cover most of it. That is, many of these things would be covered in a two year STEM program - up to the AS level.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:23:15 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 11:56:59 pmNot having any experience, other than taking classes, makes the first step into a job quite problematic. Our local universityrequirestwo summers of internship before graduation and the university sets up the employer-student match. You wake up one morning with an email to pack your bags, you're going to work!I see two outcomes: First, the student get exposed to industry and likes what their future holds or, second, they realize they made a really bad choice of major.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:54:27 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 24, 2019, 12:48:37 amI can thanks Khan academy getting me through the maths part of my degree.Their gradual difficulty increase, the clear videos and being able to endlessly repeat exercises of a tough for you point was really great.I now use it to get my 6 year old daughter into maths

author: StreuB1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 04:57:08 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 23, 2019, 03:20:16 pmOne comment......Methods of solving definite integrals of rational expressions using Partial Fractions Decomposition. The one often poorly covered topic from Precalc1 that comes back to rape you in Calc2.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 05:34:30 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 24, 2019, 01:23:15 amAnd that's the trick, only a fool does that. Don't try and compete with a thousand other clueless graduates with no experience in anything.Just work on your own projects (or join other projects and contribute) and you'll have something to show.

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 05:47:11 am
content: three things:1.Dave replied and gave you amazing words of wisdom.2.Even asking for Dave, you got others to give you their professional opinion.3.This forum is gold!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 06:09:25 am
content: Quote from: StreuB1 on January 24, 2019, 04:57:08 amHow interesting you should bring that up! Everybody should have to know that method and actually be able to use it and do just one problem! The rest of the time they would be better served to use MATLAB. It knows more about factoring and partial fractions than I'll ever know.Last weekend, my grandson and I were working on a problem for his MATLAB class - a required course in the engineering curriculum. It has to do with the shift in the color of an object as it approaches the speed of light known as the relativistic Doppler shift. He had not been taught to use the solve() function (it's just the first week) so he had to do all the algebra to solve the ugly equation in terms of v and then let MATLAB just plug in the numbers. But MATLAB knows more about algebra than we will ever. Use the solve() function and leave it alone.The equation:lp = ls * sqrt( (1-v/c) / (1+v/c) )v is the velocity at which the color has changed and c is the speed of light.It's really kind of ugly dividing both sides by ls, squaring both sides and then clearing out that fraction. Or you can use MATLAB solve()Code:[font=courier]syms v % approach velocity at which red light appears greenc = 300e6; % speed of light in meters/secondls = 630; % wavelength of red lightlp = 530; % wavelength of green lighteq1 = lp == ls * sqrt((1-(v/c))/(1+(v/c)));vel = solve(eq1,v); % solve for v and put result in velformat shortEng % exponents are multiples of 3double(vel) % print result as numeric doouble precisionans =51.3426e+006So, at about 51,000,000 meters per second (or just 51,000 km/second) which is about 0.6 times the speed of light, a red light will appear green.Obviously, MATLAB can do things like definite and indefinite integrals, take derivatives, mess around with trigonometric functions and a whole lot more. I'm not a salesman but I am a huge fan.Code:>> syms x>> int( sin(x) ) % indefinite integral of sin(x)ans =-cos(x)Octave is free and will do the same kinds of things. I think a first semester course in MATLAB is definitely the way to go.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 06:35:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 24, 2019, 05:34:30 amFor my grandson, not only will he have to do 2 summers of internship, there are also "engineering clubs" on campus. Besides consuming vast quantities of caffeine, pizza and beer, I have no idea what they do but I hope it involves collaborative projects. A 'robotics' club is always a good sign. We'll see...

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 10:43:51 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 24, 2019, 06:09:25 amIf I may make a humble suggestion:If MATLAB/octave works for you, then it's great, but I (and many of my colleagues) try to ensure my students also get some experience with the python/numpy/scipy/sympy (usually through the anaconda python distribution); in particular, jupyter notebooks with all of the plotting tools built in are extraordinarily useful, and are becoming more and more common in academic literature. But the main reason is that a number of recent graduates who have gone to work for smaller businesses have told me that their managers baulked at the price of MATLAB and just said no.Personally though, I think python is way better so I am a bit biased there...

author: CuteNotGate
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 11:04:44 am
content: Thank all for your help everyone. So I have decided to do the advanced diploma in electronics.* An note for Dave. So far I noticed this thread has gained lots of attention for education in electronics. I think you should add an board for education in the EEVblog forums ?E.g.-Education--Australia--- University--- TAFE--Other Country's--- University--- Other

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:18:56 pm
content: Quote from: CuteNotGate on January 24, 2019, 11:04:44 amQuoteAs a general rule the forum users don't like having too many categories.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 03:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on January 24, 2019, 10:43:51 amOctave is the GNU replacement for MATLAB and it works very well plus it's free!At the companies I worked for open source software was never used. Not even considered! Primarily it goes to the licensing schemes.Engineers, OTOH, are very expensive. In Silicon Valley, the median cost for an engineer might be $150k. Buying a license for MATLAB is chump change, especially since it is transferable. Negotiating a site license with a seat count (or number of open instances from a server) might be even better. I don't know if that is available. The cost of software tools is a deductible business expense.To my knowledge, and it's limited, there is no analog to Simulink in Python or it's add-ons. MATLAB itself is a great tool but when you add in the specialized toolboxes, it becomes even better. The student edition is $99 and toolboxes are similarly discounted. The Home edition is $149 and toolboxes tend to run around $49.OTOH, the SymPy library looks like it may be useful. I need to study that!There are other tools like Mathematica and Maple plus, of course, online tools like symbolab.com and desmos.com. At some point, symbolab becomes a subscription site. If you need detailed explanations at some level, you have to pay some nominal amount. Not a big deal.It pays to have a bunch of tools in your toolbox. You never know what you might have to use.Simulink diagram of Mass, Spring, Damper is attached and this general solution works for R-L-C circuits as well.. It is specifically organized to mimic an analog computer solution and is built up with a simple drag and drop interface. Just drop in an integrator wherever you want! How cool is that? Analog computers are another way to play with differential equations!