Test Equipment in a garage? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 05:57:00 am
content: Hi all,I'm moving studio space and with that I lose my current lab, focussed primarily on audio. I'm looking at setting up again in my garage at home but it's a typical Souther Californian garage with a rolling garage door - so exposed to the elements and temperature changes. For much of the year it will be hot in there and in the winter it can get chilly but not ice cold, dampness/moisture is rarely an issue.Aside from my personal comfort what do people think about storing and using test gear in such conditions? I'm not worries about super accurate measurements but I don't want to do anything to harm the gear in the long term.A snapshot of the bench includes - A Prism dScope Audio Analyzer, Tek TDS640B, Tek 2225, Iwatsu SS-7840 400MHz, HP 34401, Agilent 34465a, Agilent 34411a (for sale possibly), Keithley 2000, Agilent 3630 and 3631, Agilent 33522a, Anritsu Network Analyzer and various other tube bits.Any thoughts? There is a small space in the house that could be pressed into service but with two small kids securing it is an issue.Cheers,Ruairi

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 06:18:58 am
content: As long as the temperature swings aren't too bad I wouldn't worry about them too much. I'd say moisture is the biggest problem - as long as the garage is dry it should be fine.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 06:56:24 am
content: Thanks Steve. I know it's not something I would be comfortable with for my studio gear but I thin most of the test equipment is reasonably robust and I'm hoping this won't be for more than a year or so.Some temperature data -http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/pasadena/california/united-states/usca0840

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 07:29:36 am
content: Be cautious of any gear that has top facing vents.A garage can be a dusty environment especially if there's lots of bare wood framing.I lost a Tek DSO due to a spec of dust on a 100 pin flat package just below an upward facing vent.How? Well just add moisture and acidity did the rest.One day I'll get a microscope and attempt to solder to the small stump of a pin left protruding from the package.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 07:33:54 am
content: Let's not forget insects -- they LOVE warm electronics and outside of the primary home portion of the house they own the place...Brian

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 07:46:10 am
content: In many areas moisture is going to be the biggest problem. One possible solution is vapor phase corrosion inhibitors: they are available in stickers, satchets, and pucks, and can be attached to the inside of equipment cabinets. The chemical outgasses over time, settling on metal surfaces and inhibiting corrosion.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 10:05:39 am
content: CAn you not insulate it and board it out so dust and temperature are a little more controlled?

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 12:09:20 pm
content: if you have a normal door as well as the main metal one, why not brick-up the metal door inside with breeze-blocks.good also for security as those up&over type doors can be opened real easy by people.

author: smithnerd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 12:50:19 pm
content: Seal any exposed concrete to inhibit dust. I would also cover the instruments with plastic sheets when not in use. I keep some machine tools in an unheated outbuilding and being covered up helps a lot with corrosion.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 02:45:19 pm
content: Quote from: smithnerd on September 07, 2016, 12:50:19 pmCovering up can actually cause massive problems with corrosion due to trapped humidity that would simply evaporate otherwise. I'd never cover up equipment without putting some hygroscopics (i.e. Silica Gel) under the cover.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 03:00:41 pm
content: Quote from: ruairi on September 07, 2016, 05:57:00 amIn SoCal your main enemies will obviously be heat and very likely dust as well.Dust should be relatively easy to tackle. Seal open concrete, open brick work or raw wodden structure. Make sure the garage door shuts tight, and that there are no gaps when the doors are closed. And make it a habit to keep the place clean.As to heat, some temperature variations are acceptable but operating test gear in a very warm/hot environment, even when still within specs, isn't exactly contributing to a long service life. If this is to become your workshop you should consider at least some form of temperature control, i.e. active ventilation or (better) some aircon, set to provide some minimal heating during the chilly period to keep temperature ideally between 40F (when not using it) and 70F (which should also be comfortable for working).

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 03:31:00 pm
content: The biggest issue to watch out for is humidity.. if you don't live in a humid climate than I wouldn't worry too much.. just wrap them well.

author: LightlyDoped
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 09:10:00 pm
content: I'm in Northern California and may get a little more humidity than you. I use a dehumidifier in my garage, which really helps to reduce moisture. You'd be surprised at how much moisture it pulls out of the air.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 09:32:30 pm
content: Thanks for all the great input. Unfortunately I can't seal the door well, it's a typical rolling electric garage door and we use that space as our main storage for the house. There are significant gaps around the door.As a rental and major changes are out for now, otherwise I could frame a small room and set up AC for comfort.I'm leaning towards a small space in the house. The next trick will be keeping 2 year old hands off of 300V tube audio projects!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 10:30:07 pm
content: STEP 1 : Paint garage white to stop dust from sheetrock and paper backing ( agood latex paint : double coat it)STEP 2: epoxy coat floor to prevent humitidy push up through slab ( rustoleum 2 component garage floor epoxy from home depot) double coat it. wash floor, degrease , then etch it with rustoleum cement etchant. rinse again , let dry for 2 days. then coat 1. let dry for 24 hour then coat 2. that stuff is indestructable. cracks should be filled with liquid crack repair prior to coating , but after etching. after etching and final rinse: do NOT walk on floor with dirty shoes. get a nice fresh pair of cheapo flipflops and use those to walk on etched floor while you are epoxy coating. any contaminant will prevent proper adhesion of epoxy.Step 3 : apply self adhesive vinyl tiles ( homedepot ) on top of epoxy. this covers unevenness and ,makes for a smooth rolling surface for the office chairsstep 4: put nice styrofoam on garage door to isolate for winter. ( lowes has kits to insulate dgarage doors )step 5 : outside the door : apply weathering strips vertically ( assuming it is a roll-down door )step 6: bottom of door : weathering stripstep7 : get a portable airco / heater unit.step 8 get on craigslist for ikea Jerker tables ...step 9 : get knock -off metro racks to put behind the jerkers so you can place the test equipment.that's what i did. i get fairly constant temperature winter / summer and no humidity problems.oh, and install a few extra light fixtures ...

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 10:42:45 pm
content: These two guys did it

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 10:45:26 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 07, 2016, 10:30:07 pmAwesome tables. I've bought 6 of them from CL over the past few years, several for 20 bucks. I use them for my computer workstation, ham radio bench, hobby bench and at work we use one with a small CNC and another with our stencil printer.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:32:02 am
content: Thanks for the detailed ideas Free Electron! Unfortunately I'm only renting this house short term and the bench comes third after the day job (mastering engineer) and family.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:54:26 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on September 07, 2016, 10:45:26 pmOh yeah, it's great, got one with extra shelf, IKEA simply loves making a great product then replacing it with a cheesy inferior substitute.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 02:00:59 am
content: Concrete dust sucks.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:31:37 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 07, 2016, 10:30:07 pmI am not sure about this particular advice. It may cause some grief when time will come to take the tiles off.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:17:51 am
content: If you do not want to use the epoxy on bare concrete simply use some liquid floor polish on it. Looks the same, but no more dust, and you can simply apply a coat to wear places as needed.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:32:58 am
content: Epoxy on the floor is a good idea. I did that in my basement/utility room lab. If you don't want to do the painted epoxy look, there are several good concrete sealer products on the market. If you want to go for the artistic/high end look you can acid etch it first.I'm not a fan of self adhesive vinyl tiles either. High quality rubber mats can provide a smooth cushioned surface. Personally I favor a warmer feel and use a large firm, woven indoor/outdoor rug. Chairs still roll on it fine. Harder to sweep up those dropped smt parts though..If you can afford it, a small ductless mini split heat pump/air conditioner will efficiently cool you in summer and heat in winter while dehumidifying as well - although humidity should not be an issue in So. Cal.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:11:45 pm
content: Don't forget mice; they can be very destructive and you won't find them until you open that drawer that you never use.I had something eat all 16 feet of my garage door seal this year. Turned it into a little pile of rubber scraps and ate the copper wiring to the door opener to boot! I've had them eat through the side weather seal on my shop's overhead door as well.Open every drawer at least once a week.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 05:48:33 pm
content: Mice and other rodents are easy to deal with, just use a Tomcat bait station either side of the door. This you just check every month and replace the wax bait blocks if they are nibbled, and then go look for the dead rodent. If you get activity then get some Finale liquid, and put out a bowl ( covered so pets and children cannot get near it) with it in it, and it will get rid of them fast.For roofs I put a few packs of the blocks in there along with a plastic dog dish of the liquid, and, after the initial scurry around inside to feast and drink ( we could hear the little feet on the ceiling of the rooms), we went back the next day and put more blocks and liquid in there. After the third day the blocks were not eaten, and after another 2 days the slight smell was gone as well.At work I am trialling some paste bait, which is really appreciated, they love the bubblegum smell of it, and it vanishes fast on the first 2 placings.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 07:16:38 pm
content: IMHO moisture is the biggest enemy. I have a drill-press and mill in my shed (made from wood) but I have to keep everything covered in oil to prevent rust. I wouldn't want to put test equipment in there.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 07:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: ruairi on September 08, 2016, 01:32:02 amthat epoxy coat kit is cheap. like 50$ or so for a double garage.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 08:30:54 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 08, 2016, 07:16:38 pmMoisture is a bad think for sure but it's probably the case the a good percentage of home electronics labs are in basements and no matter where you are basements tend to have high humidity which results in moisture and mold and lots of other things that aren't great for expensive electronics. I keep all my cables and probes in sealed plastic containers that should limit the effect of moisture, but I can't put my test equipment in them so handling the moisture with a dehumidifier would be advised.I guess for me it's best to NOT put your lad in a basement, but I guess not everyone has the space or permission to use the air conditioned living space for our hobby. Wives tend to hold a dim view of appropriating a bedroom or similar for 'toys'.Brian

author: Dino KL0S
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:16:19 am
content: When we moved to our new home I seriously considered putting my lab in the garage but decided to collocate it with my ham radio "shack" inside instead - five years later I don't regret doing that. Even with our garage being a conditioned, heated and cooled space and pretty well sealed the insects, dust and dirt that accumulate would have made it really unsuitable...I would avoid it if at all possible.

author: amirm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 05:04:03 am
content: I used to use my garage in northern california as a woodshop. For half the year at least, the heat was oppressive. I would sweat big time. Then cut a vent into the garage and with the A/C blowing, it was acceptable.And oh yeah, we didn't have mice but rats! They chewed a big hole behind the AC unit and would travel to and from the ceiling into the garage.I also made the mistake of storing hot tub chemicals in there. Boy, did that rust out my electronics like nobody's business!Despite all of this, I made some nice furniture and with real estate being so expensive in california, you have no choice but to use the garage for something other than storing cars. As a friend used to say, car's don't mind living outside.

author: Richard Head
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 08:47:03 am
content: Learn from my mistake.I stored a closed plastic container of HTH (calcium hypochlorite) pool chemical in a garage cupboard for about a year until I noticed every metal part in the garage had developed serious corrosion on it. This included the cupboard door hinges, my drill press vertical column, a roll of copper foil etc.I suspect what happens is that moisture converts the free chlorine gas into HCl which causes the corrosion.I now store the HTH and jacuzzi spa tablets outside.