Overpriced equipment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 09:22:57 pm
content: I've just had to repair this unit, turned out a couple of caps had gone bad, from a customer. Turned out the manufacturer wanted £53,000 + vat for this!! Even with a mark up and covering development cost etc it seems a bit steep. It's not like it was made in small numbers either. The machine it came from must have sold approx. 1500 or more units!

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 09:37:03 pm
content: You can build a good business around this sort of thing. Worth keeping in good with the customer and figuring out where others are. If possible a hand written recommendation as well.Ask if the customer has any non working spares.Good luck.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 12:48:56 am
content: So what did you end up charging them?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 12:59:08 am
content: Well just look at it! I mean all through hole, socketed IC's everywhere. It's one of those "when its gone, it's gone" boards that can only be economically repaired by complete replacement (oh, and, ahem, please return the old board for proper RoHS disposal. cough, cough, yes sir - you can't keep the old totally irrepairable board. We have to dispose of it or charge you a $25,000 core charge).Bloody shysters...

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 01:06:47 am
content: I think it's more probable the seller of the equipment (machine) does not manufacture the boards. They may have no ability to repair or even send it in for repair. Yes they are gouging but that is not unusual. If you are looking at a specialized bit of gear that cost big bucks you need it running to stay in business. These are great opportunities for anyone willing to do the repairs well and give good customer service.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 01:39:56 am
content: Quote from: donkey77 on October 14, 2015, 09:22:57 pmNicely done!Do good work. Charge a fair price. Ask for referrals. Win!

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 04:42:44 pm
content: heh, and I thought the $300 replace entire pump, when it doesn't run any more was bad. I fixed for someone as the pressure switch had gone. The replacement is the bog standard $2 microswitch every man and his dog has as a stock part. Funny part is it now works better than it ever did.£53,000 is just a sick joke, did they add in the cost of not being able to sell an entirely new system ?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 05:00:08 pm
content: I think there is a reason for being so expensive. They have to send Indiana Jones to rob some ancient tombs for the components they used on the board.

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 08:09:23 pm
content: The module comes off a colour spectrometer scanner that originally cost around £120,000 new. This unit is from a year 2000 machine, however they now change hand for around £10-12k so £53k kinda writes it off. The manufacturer sometimes offers 25% back with the faulty part returned depending on the part, not with this one however! It's true, getting the components after such a long time can prove tricky. I'll have to find Indiana's number!I'll probably charge a couple of hundred for diagnosing/fixing it as it's a good customer and they pay well. If I had had a "spare" one I'm sure a "recon" unit would have been supplied for a very reasonable couple of grand! I have a fair size pile of board for repair now, it's just my electronic skills that are lacking! If there's anyone into repairingold tatquality electronic boards around the Hampshire area give me a shout, we should be able to make a few quid.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 08:40:18 pm
content: Do you have the means to test these boards, if they're part of a bigger system that you don't have?That's the tricky part IMHO, being able to exercise a board in order to identify what it is and isn't doing, and to know with a degree of certainty when you've actually fixed it.

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 09:08:16 pm
content: You're right, that is a challenge. Some boards are relatively straight forward to test rig, some can be simulated, others I could borrow the use of a customers machine to tested the, hopefully, fixed boards.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 10:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: donkey77 on October 15, 2015, 09:08:16 pmPerhaps when/if you start repairing the boards a common mode of failure will show itself making for quicker repairs and then maybe on site fixes etc.What sort of documentation is there?. (not much I'll bet !).

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 12:09:40 am
content: Quote from: donkey77 on October 15, 2015, 08:09:23 pmWish I was in the area to help out. It'd be cool to not only do the direct repair, but also build a simulator/test rig.

author: djQUAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 12:23:24 am
content: Quote from: donkey77 on October 15, 2015, 08:09:23 pmI don't know Indiana's number but there is another "Jones" around here.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 01:00:32 am
content: Quote from: donkey77 on October 15, 2015, 08:09:23 pmthe pics you attached looks awfully similar to the applied photonics stopped flow spectrometer I had in my previous lab. I cant say for sure if its the exact same board, but if it is than its ridiculous that they quoted 53k for repairs.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 01:11:13 am
content: Quote from: bigdawg on October 16, 2015, 01:00:32 amWhere "repair" = board swap.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 02:44:24 am
content: Some years back,I worked in a place that fixed Hearing Testing equipment.One such model had a 10" BW raster display (Picture Monitor) on it,with a habit of losing most of its vertical scans..The standard procedure was to send it to the USA,where they sent us an exchange unit,fixed ours,& put it into stock for the next "punter".We had no schematics so it was easiest to do this,pay $A1200 a time,which was passed on to the customer,& get on with the more specialist stuff.All was well,until the folks in the USA informed us that they were not continuing this service,so we had to "pony up" considerably more for a new Monitor.We,& the custome, said 'EEK!" & pushed the job to "the back of the shelf"!I had recently worked at a TV Studio,among other things,fixing Picture Monitors,so I decided to take a look at it.It had an uncanny resemblance to an Electrohome Monitor,but the big Horiz/Vertical "jungle" IC had the part number sanded off.After borrowing an Electrohome 10" BW monitor manual from my old work,a few minutes checking verified that it was the same circuit.(Different PCB,though).In the "E/homes" an underrated diode in the vertical circuit often caused the fault,& so it was in this case.A new,better diode out of the parts store & the vertical scans were back to normal.A few manhours & a $1.00 diode--a lot cheaper than even the old exchange service.I photocopied the E/home schematic & pasted it,plus some relevant info into the Hearing equipment manual,for others.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 02:53:47 am
content: Quote from: djQUAN on October 16, 2015, 12:23:24 amShall we all start referring to him as "junior" from now on ?

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 08:21:44 am
content: The machine is an ancillary unit made by a company that makes printing machines called Heidelberg but this particular board is made by Gretag who specialise in spectrometers and densitometers. Even with the parent German company putting their mark up on Gretag's price and then the UK side putting their mark up on £53k is still a piss take.I mainly service and repair these printing machines and most of the boards are designed and made in house by the manufacturer themselves. You never schematics, well maybe for old late 70's early 80's stuff, but there is a component list of sorts available as well as block diagrams, theory of operation and pin outs etc.The board pictured does drive a few motors, x, y, z drive and a couple of others as well as a few I/O's for sensors. It also communicates with a mechanical flywheel type multiplexer for fibre optic scanning and the PC software.Info attached if anyone's interested.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 08:48:04 am
content: Wasn't Gretag acquired by the Swiss company X-Rite, or was that only some of their product lines? The acquisition could explain a shortage of spares to refurbish boards from the field.

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 11:58:58 am
content: They might well have been. I see people using x-rite hand held units as much as Gretag. I'm not sure there is a shortage of supplies as Heidelberg tend to support their equipment for at least a decade or so after production stops and they still sell this thing. I guess sometimes they have to redesign things due to obsolescence of components but they would still then have spares. They also aren't interested in receiving this part back for repair/part ex credit etc.