Nightsleeper drama on BBC iPlayer-Technical feasibility of train high jacking? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 08:28:41 pm
content: I'm currently watching a Drama called "Nightsleeper" on the BBC iPlayer website.https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002265y/nightsleeperThe drama features the high jacking of a Glasgow to London train using remote hacking of the train's control systems. When I say features, all we see in the first episode is a removed floor panel in one of the control rooms/cabin. The removed panel then shows some kind of SBC (single board computer as they correctly call it in the episode) that has 2 antennae and a few cables coming from it. The episode ends with the door first being opened and the n closed remotely, and then it's started and driven off, supposedly remotely. We see the driver being locked out of his cab and chasing after the train as it starts to accelerate from the station with passengers remaining on board. They are unable to stop the train.This has left me asking, I wonder if this is technically possible? Any thoughts?

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 10:22:04 am
content: I am pretty certain all trains come with a "dead man's switch", and it would be stupid to built it in a way it could easily being bypassed remotedly.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 10:42:06 am
content: If there has been physical access to the train, with enough time and skill to install additional hardware, then it's fair to assume that any kind of tampering could have taken place. Any sensor or actuator could have been modified or disconnected.This is quite an interesting story, in case you missed it... trains allegedly programmed to stop working if serviced in a 3rd party workshop:https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/accusations-that-newag-pl-is-intentionally-making-its-trains-fail.258894/

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 11:00:23 am
content: I was just thinking of that Newag case. In theory since the Newag train could receive remote software updates, it would be possible to hijack the control system there. Not sure about other models. But I doubt that could not be overridden - for instance, an E-stop button or pulling the right fuse or control module would likely render it safe again.The London to Glasgow line in the UK is fully electrified, so really if stopping the train on board was impossible, a few circuit breakers flipped to 'OFF' at the substations along the route would surely immobilise it quickly enough.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 11:58:36 am
content: According to a quick google (train nerds correct me if I'm wrong), both routes from Glasgow to London are electrified.So it would be trivially easy to stop the train by just switching off the traction current.Is it an electric or diesel train in the TV programme?Edit - derp just noticed the previous post making the same point.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 12:11:47 pm
content: Quotewhy get that technical they stopped a train on the west coast main line with nothing more than a glove and a battery

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 01:04:51 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on September 18, 2024, 10:22:04 amThey have had the dead man's switch for several decades, but to stop someone putting a brick on the pedal they also have a timer based system, the pedal must be held & released at regular intervals or the device activates the brakes, in older trains this involved a non-resetable/fusible part. No idea how much more advanced they are these days.

author: ftg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 01:18:59 pm
content: The "SBC" shown in the series is a raspberry pi with MMDVM hat on it.It's a simple low power transceiver meant for amateur radio use on 145MHz and 434MHz bands.What's displayed on the OLED screen is just fanciful garbage.

author: adeuring
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2024, 12:32:11 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on September 18, 2024, 10:42:06 amThe folks who discovered this gave a nice presentation of their work and findings at Chaos Communication Congress 2023:Breaking "DRM" in Polish trains

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2024, 06:11:04 pm
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on September 18, 2024, 11:58:36 amSeems to be a fictional bi-mode train, so you could rip the pantograph off and perforate the diesel tanks to disable it. Probably safer than signallers sending it towards a derailer at speed.If it was starting on the West coast line as the link suggests, then I doubt they would bother filling the diesel tanks, the dead weight not needed for that route.https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/70393/nick-leather-talks-nightsleeper/QuoteNot sure I can be bothered wasting 6 hours of my life watching this.David

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2024, 07:47:21 pm
content: Always take technology in fiction with a pinch of salt, the public has a basic idea - and bias - of what is plausible with technology. As such plots, props and SFX are designed to appease this idea, not change it with reality.Edited to add: If there was a way to do this - which I'm sure is possible given enough time and resources, the question is.. why would someone do this? Lots of things are technically possible, but people don't do them because there isn't much point. Some have the will, but not the way, many have the way, but not the will. Very few have both.