My Advanced Realistic Humanoid Robots Project - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: artbyrobot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:34:52 am
content: Sorry to mods on my last thread's derailment. I agree on the decision to lock it. I take responsibility for not being more adamantly disciplined to stay on topic. My bad. This go I plan to really emphasize staying on topic to the technical aspects of the humanoid robot build and not accommodate going into philosophy, morality, religion, politics, etc. I kindly ask everyone to keep the focus on the technical aspects of the build, in line with the forum’s guidelines..So to kickstart this fresh thread, I must reintroduce the topic and bring this thread up to date.To begin: the project goal: I am working to make a series of humanoid robots. I am using a Biblical theme of naming the first 3 robots I make Adam, Eve, and Abel. The goal is for these robots to have human body inspired musculoskeletal systems, advanced AI, and that they look human and pass for human to a casual observer at least at a distance. They must be able to walk, talk, run, dance, do sports, do chores, manufacture products, and make more robots just like themselves if not even better. My aim is to build a single robot arm and head and then add sufficiently advanced AI to that arm and head to enable it to build the rest of its own body for me. This way I am delegating the work of building the majority of my first humanoid robot to that robot rather than doing that work myself - and this is to save me time.In a like manner, my goal with the AI is to code just enough AI that the AI can begin coding itself and this way I don't have to code most of the AI myself because it will self create itself. I liken this to building a seed and that seed growing into a tree because for me to code that tree would take too long for me and just creating the seed would then save me time.Here is my CAD image for the Eve robot:My primary focus at my current progression is building the arm for the Abel robot. I am using a off the shelf PVC medical skeleton as the basis framework of the arm. I have added artificial ligaments made of workout shirt fabric and bone sleeves made of 1000 denier nylon fabric taped onto the bones with adhesive transfer tape and also sewn tightly around the bone for a snug fit. I then am able to suture all components onto these bone sleeves using nylon upholstery thread and a curved suturing needle.During the project's last 10 years of development, I have mainly done large amounts of research and planning as well as trial and error. Making plans, attempting to implement them, and finding out why they did not work. These setbacks were a form a failing forward, learning what not to do and narrowing down my options over time. For example, I ruled out using geared servomotors because gears are loud and having the motor and gears assembled together with the circuit board and potentiometer all crammed into a little black box was not space efficient, as far as form factor goes, for placing these assemblies into the robot's available spaces where muscles would normally be. I just wouldn't be able to fit many of these. So I needed to elongate and stretch out the form factor by mounting the motor, downgear, and circuitboards separately, spreading out each of these components of a servo. I also did not like the massive amounts of gear noises that metal geared servos give off. So I needed to find a way to downgear motors without using gears. That led me down a rabbit hole of learning to downgear by way of pulleys which can be silent and robust if done well IMO. The general idea is to have the motor output shaft act as a winch to reel in strong braided PE fishing line which then will be downgeared by a pulley system just like a crane uses or similar to downgear its cables. Then after downgearing the fishing line will have the proper torque and speed to actuate the joint it is assigned to. By copying the skeletal arrangement of the human body exactly, I am also able to copy the position, strength,and orientation of the muscles of the human body exactly to reproduce their function on the skeleton of my robot. This way I'm using a proven successful design, the human body, to ensure the success of my bio inspired design. Developing this pulley system has been much harder than I anticipated and the space it takes up is tough to accommodate. I am uncertain it will work and so once again am just in the trial and error testing phase.Here is a CAD image of my Abel robot which shows the little BLDC motors I selected for each muscle replacement and mounted in CAD everywhere space allowed for it. There is nearly a 1:1 ratio of motors to muscles of a human body in this CAD. Although some muscles were so strong I used more than one motor to replicate its strength.Here is a image of the hand curling the index finger.Project website:http://www.artbyrobot.comFull humanoid robot building playlist:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhd7_i6zzT5-MbwGz2gMv6RJy5FIW_lfn

author: Zipdox
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 07:55:55 am
content: Holy crap, at a first glance I thought this was one of those naively ambitious posts, but you're actually serious. How are you financing this?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 12:43:35 pm
content: Alright, I'll try not to defecate on your thread.The problem is. You haven't asked any specific questions. You need to break this up into smaller mini-projects, as it's very complicated. What are you stuck on at the moment? What part can we help you with?Much of your project is beyond the current cutting edge technology. For example, your idea of using AI to build and code the robot itself is currently impossible.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:02:18 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on October 08, 2024, 12:43:35 pmAlso, AI development needn't require a physical robot body.For example, Stephen Hawking was an example of a human intelligence that functioned (for the most part) with extremely limited motor capacity.Even so, you could always test your AI with a virtual body in a virtual environment, much like simulating electronic circuits in LTspice before blowing up MOSFETs.

author: wobbly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:08:54 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on October 08, 2024, 12:43:35 pmI think he intends this as a show & tell, or a project log.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:11:30 pm
content: I would have asked why ?you have Bonston dynamics, Darpa and many others who have already advanced to such lengthsthey have some with human face, human expressions, some are behind AI driven behaviour, autonomous learningthey have tons of $$$ financing and they evolve at terrifying pace / speedunless you associate with them, you'll be left in the dust, and way behind ...so far with your shown photos of poor quality is mostly prosthetic apparatus, nothing to frail on,even kids with 3d printer managed to do very good things, even one who designed his artificial arm ...start with the Brain ...

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:34:12 pm
content: https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Children-Robot-Claw-Kid-Plastic-Hand-Grabber-Pick-Hand-Grabber-Long-Arm-Hand-eye-Coordination-Boys-Pick-Up-Toy-Daycare-Early-Learning-Intelligence/PRD7GXY59FLWFS8

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 03:51:03 pm
content: I've seen stories of people having built human-like robots before (even in Japan), butthis?Even with internal organsanda musculoskeletal system?!You my friend have far too much time on your hands... but I wish you luck anyway.(and yes, I did see the original thread that got derailed)

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 03:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on October 08, 2024, 01:11:30 pmI think that is the question in my mind, too. Why bother? I see string and pulleys and electric motors; I don't see anything innovative or particularly special. In fact it reminds me very much of the creepy 18th and 19th century automatons that were created by a few mechanical wizards of the time - strings, pulleys, gears, springs, clockwork, levers, pivots.....@artbyrobotclaims that this robot is highly innovative but I think it is more like a homage to the technology of 200 years ago. Nothing at all wrong with that as an art project, but I don't think we can apply "innovative" to the mechanical aspects of this project. Especially if you consider the advances by Boston Dynamics, et al.There is one way in which this project stands out: ambition. The level of ambition is extraordinary:Quote from: artbyrobot on October 08, 2024, 01:34:52 amI think both of these visions: start with an arm and head and the robot builds itself; and by the magic of AI programs itself as well.... I think both visions are completely unrealistic and probably impossible.As I said before, I would live to see it work as envisioned, I really would. But to me it seems doomed to failure. I'd love to be wrong.I'd also love to see other people's views on whether the whole thing is credible, in particular the two principles in bold above.Is it even theoretically, philosophically possible to "plant an AI seed" that then grows itself into a full-blown "tree"?

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 04:11:16 pm
content: He's no Vaucanson...

author: wobbly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 04:31:32 pm
content: Come on guys, let's not do this again. If a guy is enthusiastic about his project and it means a lot to him then why try to talk him out of it? (I know I'm guilty of that too on the first iteration of this thread and I feel bad about it).The other day someone posted a thread about a rather excellent home-made EDM CNC machine. A very difficult project by anyone's standards, and there are indeed large corporations already making such machines commercially. I don't see anyone asking "why bother?" or "what's the point?".We make cool shit because it gives us a buzz when we accomplish something or when we get the thrill of having a goal to shoot at.Give the guy a break huh?

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 05:07:10 pm
content: Quote from: wobbly on October 08, 2024, 04:31:32 pmYou're thinking - at least in part - about me. Well, my post is entirely based on these:1/@artbyrobotmakes big claims for the project, including that it is innovative.2/ I don't think it is innovative.3/ I don't think it is doable.4/ I really, really want it to be doable, and done. I do.I think points 2, 3 and 4 are absolutely reasonable opinions for me to hold. I think it is reasonable for me to ask "Why bother?" bearing in mind I think the mechanics were sufficiently bottomed out 200 years ago. I think it is reasonable of me to ask the AI experts if the "seed into tree" model is technically and philosophically feasible.Raising these points may seem like challenges, but what's wrong with that anyway? Look around this forum: loads of posts are along the lines of:"You are trying to solve the wrong problem""What you are trying to do won't work""Why do you want to do it that way?""What, exactly, are you trying to achieve?"...... etc, etc.It's through challenges that make us think again about something that we grow and learn. So no, I don't accept your implication that I'm trying to discourage the guy.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 05:31:41 pm
content: Whatever it is you making, cool. Keep building it.

author: wobbly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 06:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 08, 2024, 05:07:10 pmMy comments were not aimed ay anyone in particular. But I understand your point.Quote from: SteveThackery on October 08, 2024, 05:07:10 pmHey, I'm only human.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 06:23:38 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 05:31:41 pm10 years into the project might be a good time for a reality check though. As Steve wrote, the project goals are extremely ambitious. Extrapolating from the actual progress achieved over that many years does not bode well.

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 06:33:36 pm
content: I just hope the programming connector is hidden in Adams nose, to stay true to the source materialNow i want robotic snakes with speech modules, sitting in trees of the public parks, flustering passerbys.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 06:56:03 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 08, 2024, 03:55:03 pmMaybe it is worth reminding people that the OP's pictures are hosted on dollforum.com, where the NSFW front page is "A Meeting Place for Love Doll Owners & Admirers! By clicking any of the links above and below, you agree that you ARE at least 18 years of age or older and of legal adult age. We also invite you to check out our other popular features! Click HERE for The Doll Album! Click HERE for The Doll Harem!"I think that gives a reason "why"Not agoodreason, but a reason nonetheless. The link for his second picture ishttps://dollforum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1283447

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 06:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 05:31:41 pmGiven your posts in your other threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/idea-for-laser-soldering/, I am not surprised you say that.(For anybody who wanders over there, do see the sane suggestions made by other people)

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 07:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 08, 2024, 06:57:16 pmYa think anyone reading your off-topic comment cares?Is this humanoid project a safety issue you want to address?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 07:46:13 pm
content: If we (as a community), want this forum to remain a nice, open and safe place. For people (of all walks of life, and various backgrounds, experience levels and electronics related projects) to discuss various aspects of electronics, including computers and robotics.Then we shouldn't be DERAILING threads, before they even have a chance to develop a fresh or restarted thread.PLEASE!Let's give this person (OP), a genuine chance to make a second attempt, at making this thread.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 08:03:51 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on October 08, 2024, 07:46:13 pmA reasonable requestPerhaps I've been too sensitized by treez/faringdon and similar people's inability to remain away from their obsessions. Let's hope I'm being too pessimistic.IThe other linked forum remains....weird.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 11:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: wobbly on October 08, 2024, 01:08:54 pmThat's one of the goals of the Projects section, just showing off / documenting your projects. It doesn't have to involve any questions or feedback.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 11:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on October 08, 2024, 12:43:35 pmIt is just an echo chamber, as was his first thread.Edit: user wobbly beat me.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 11:35:05 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on October 08, 2024, 07:46:13 pmDevelop a fresh thread? ?If it were you, how'd you develop a new thread? Would not you step back, looked at the failed attempt and write something a bit different, from a different angle, adding new ideas? What this guys did is just copy-paste walls of text from the first thread, which was copy-paste from some other web site. Here is my prediction: this thread is going to meet same fate as the firsf one.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 12:15:44 am
content: Quote from: artbyrobot on October 08, 2024, 01:34:52 amJust be careful for copyright infringementhttps://spaceballs.fandom.com/wiki/Mega_Maid