Pride month science - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 12:32:44 pm
content: Here's a science question for Pride month:I've been thinking about rainbows. And of course, the mythical origin of the rainbow is Noah's flood, which implied that there were no rainbows before that.So... what would physics look like before the mythical flood, when different frequencies of light all refracted at the same angle (or did not refract at all), so that the light didn't split and there were no rainbows?Could the "damage" to quantum physics be limited to just refraction, or would other properties of photons have to change, or would all of quantum mechanics come crashing down (and if so, why)?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 02:51:58 pm
content: Photons will be photons, and EM waves will undulate.The visible rainbow is produced due to variation with wavelength/frequency in the refractive index ("dispersion") of the water in the droplets.Dispersion in materials is a quantum effect--only classical physics existed in antediluvian times.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 02:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on June 11, 2023, 02:51:58 pmThat's an interesting way of thinking about it. God promised not to flood us again, but plagued us with inscrutable physics instead.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 02:58:46 pm
content: And quantum physics was followed closely by oenology.Genesis IX, 20-21.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 03:25:00 pm
content: Rainbows are made fromDark Light- and this is a fact according to AIOK so now I'm just confused. How many rainbows do the LGBTQAIW+ 'community' need? Answer, all of them. Seriously, you want to click this:https://www.volvogroup.com/en/news-and-media/news/2021/jun/lgbtq-pride-flags-and-what-they-stand-for.htmlNot to be confused with the resistor color codehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_codeFlags as yet awaiting colors : Transformersexual. Transientsexual. Oscillatingsexual. Flipflopsexual. Harmonicsexual...

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 03:38:06 pm
content: Don't be silly, everyone knows that rainbows are unicorn flatulence.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 04:41:15 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 11, 2023, 02:55:11 pmThis, and chromatic aberrations are punishment for sin.Optics sure as hell worked better before the flood.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 07:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: magic on June 11, 2023, 04:41:15 pmFunnily enough, "good lord!" sounds like the most appropriate reply in this thread.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 09:33:38 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 11, 2023, 12:32:44 pmHow did you extrapolate that?

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 09:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on June 11, 2023, 03:38:06 pmRubbish, they are divining rods for gold.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 09:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on June 11, 2023, 09:33:38 pmIf rainbows were a routine occurrence after storms, why would anyone find it notable - especially to the extent of being divine guarantee - when one appeared after 40 days of rain?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 09:45:17 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on June 11, 2023, 09:33:38 pmThat interpretation of the myth is consistent with the verb tenses in the Biblical narrative:Genesis, chapter 9 (King James version):11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.We also know that this is pre-metric, since a myth is as good as a mile.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 10:02:52 pm
content: This is political, somebody close this shitty thread, please.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 10:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on June 11, 2023, 10:02:52 pmThis is a silly thread, but I haven't noticed any politics until your post.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 10:17:43 pm
content: If you google "Pride month", without the quotes. A miracle (of sorts) happens. Don't believe me?Feel free to try it.N.B. I'm serious!Probably only works in Google searches.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 10:44:37 pm
content: Thread locked in 3, 2, 1 ...

author: MMMarco
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 10:48:39 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 11, 2023, 10:44:37 pmDemonetized!

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 10:56:04 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on June 11, 2023, 10:12:18 pmYes, RoGeorges comment was a little queer wasn't it.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 11:40:08 pm
content: Pride month?I’m proud to be an old straight white male.Go ahead and show how inclusive you are and celebrate me.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 12:34:06 am
content: I'm proud to be humble.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 03:04:25 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 11, 2023, 11:40:08 pmOh I thought it was about groups of lions.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 08:53:41 am
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 11, 2023, 12:32:44 pmPresumably this means The Flood that Noah built his Ark to weather, happened about 370,000 years after the Big Bang, when the universe became transparent, and refraction became possible...

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 09:13:43 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 12, 2023, 08:53:41 amVery true. And that day was a Tuesday btw.All about atmospheric refractions and optics :https://atoptics.co.uk/bows.htm

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 12:44:12 pm
content: I'd like to add that there are acutally *2* rainbows.That might hint at two gods.Also: You can have all the floods you want - no rainbows. However have the slightest hint of rain - the nicest rainbow will occur. So the bible might not scientifically correct there

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 12:54:36 pm
content: Very early in the piece the Bible says it had not begun to rain, but a mist would arise from the ground and water everything. So maybe it had not rained from the sky until the flood occurred?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 01:49:16 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 12, 2023, 12:54:36 pmThat's a part of the Creation mythology of which most people are ignorant.Similarly, in the beginning of the Noah myth there is a mention of2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.(Genesis 7)

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 02:12:51 pm
content: This thread is pure clickbait. The thread starter must be happy at the mud slinging he has started.It shows that posting anything that causes a controversy is guaranteed to generate responses.I know, I know. I also have responded to it.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 02:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 12, 2023, 02:12:51 pmI honestly did not intend it to end up this way.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 02:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 12, 2023, 02:12:51 pmWell I for one am not going to respond to this!

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 05:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 12, 2023, 02:16:54 pmFrom the very mythological book you mentioned in the OP."Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife." Proverbs 30:33.Actions have consequences, butyou've been warned, of course.5) This is an electronics forum, so try to stay on-topic. We understand that threads drift off-topic, but try not to start deliberately and grossly off-topic stuff. There are a couple of pet topics that always get out of control on forums, namely,religion, politics, guns, war, conspiracy theories,and the latest Current Thing that's happening or being championed by the public. They are not welcome here. This includes inside signatures and profile bios. This isn't Twitter where you virtue signal to everyone with your flags, emoticons, and hashtags.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 05:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 12, 2023, 02:33:16 pmMe neither.But this type of behaviour is so easily misunderstood.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 09:06:27 pm
content: I've always liked rainbows, right from when I was a small child and never associated them with religion, politics or activism.███████

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 10:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on June 11, 2023, 03:25:00 pmAll these flags are stupid. The entire point of the original rainbow flag is that it is the entire spectrum, it is inclusive of everybody. Now that all these various subgroups wants their own separate flag completely defeats the purpose and it is all a bunch of nonsense.As for the religious aspect, people are free to believe what they want, science is not a part of religion, it is a process for gathering, organizing, interpreting and testing data, whereas religion is based on faith which by definition is belief that does not involve data or the scientific method.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 10:13:51 pm
content: Just make the rainbow a continuum instead of 7 discrete shades.Specify the color space. Is it going to be sRGB? Adobe RGB? Make sure the color space covers enough to be really inclusive!

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 10:19:59 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 12, 2023, 10:04:30 pmIt doesn’t include me!That’s discrimination!I’m triggered!Tongue in cheek, obviously.I couldn’t care less. Let them do what they want. Just stay away from me.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:30:54 am
content: Godnotone to lie.pridebeforea fall.power overscienceis walking on water & been raised from the dead

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:47:40 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on June 13, 2023, 04:30:54 amShould we think that those kinds of things do not have a scientific basis simply because we are unable to do such things at the present time?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 08:46:37 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 12, 2023, 10:04:30 pmWouldn't be a problem if they started with the right one from the beginning.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 02:06:19 pm
content: That's a flag for the Resistance.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:17:32 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 12, 2023, 02:16:54 pmI shouldn't worry about schmitt trigger, they are known for their hysteresis

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:23:54 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 13, 2023, 04:17:32 pmEtymological note: hysteresis and hysteria come from different Greek roots, spelled differently in Greek.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:03:06 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 12, 2023, 10:13:51 pmYes, then there's at least some justice.Now if we are indigo there's only 6 for extra terrestrials.And what are the other 5 tertiaries.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 08:03:35 pm
content: Quote from: m k on June 13, 2023, 05:03:06 pmWhat about octarine?

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 08:56:04 pm
content: what was made in just 144 hours by God is beyond anything we mortals can comprehend.the number of stars, the number of galaxys, all the elementary particles, made perfect from day one!in the beginning the earth had a layer of water in orbit .then a layer of breathable atmosphere and then the Earth's surface was water too.at that time the Earth had one landmass divide by 4 rivers with the centre of the landmass known as Eden.the sky magnified the stars at night and a day was more like 12 Hours not 24.the gravity was low and human life expectancy was upto 900 years.the world's first great ship builder called Noah and a man called Enoch had the technical knowledge of that time.we are not alone and never have been alone in the universe.the God of heaven will not be mocked, as pride is lucifers downfall, the fallen angels corrupted themselves.by the seduction of we mortals with their lies. ET's and the so celled UFO's are not what they say.woe to them that call evil good.woe to them that make ugly what was originally made by God to be beautiful the Original rainbow in the sky.the cities of sodom and gomorrah was destroyed by God for their wickedness.the cities had pride and mass public nudity including with animals.hopefully this clears things up a bit.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 11:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on June 13, 2023, 08:56:04 pmWell, for one thing, six “12 hour” creative days = 72 hours, not 144.And to say the entire universe was created / came about in six 24 hour days contradicts both science and the Bible. Certainly the Bible refers to 6 creative “days” or epochs, presumably each a substantial period of time, but these are described as occurring *after* the earth came into existence, not during the time when the universe appeared.And BTW, I’m not trying to defend whether the Bible is fact or fantasy, this is not the place for that. I’m just trying to make sure it is referenced correctly, just as you might an encyclopaedia entry or a Shakespeare quotation.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 10:13:38 am
content: How do you know the flood was mythical? That is a sweeping assumption. What evidence do you have it is mythical? There is evidence of a huge flood in the known ancient world, but the evidence does not allow us to make any definite conclusions. However, the more we poke into the past the more we learn things that overturn our assumptions.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 10:46:33 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 14, 2023, 10:13:38 amInteresting to look at the makeup of the Chinese character for boat.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 11:51:27 am
content: Flood myths do have a scientific basis. At the end of the last ice age, some 10,000 years ago, a series of "inundation pulses" consumed much of the low laying landscapes of thepre-ancientworld. From the Red Sea and Arabian Gulf, the North Sea to the Baltic, and the Bay of Bengal to the Torres Straight, land that was almost certainly inhabited by our direct ancestors vanished at a spectacular rate. One hypothesised inundation event that may have led to theNoah's Floodstory, was some eight millennia ago when the rising Mediterranean overtopped the dry Bosporus Straight and flooded into the neighbouring Black Sea.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesisThe memory of lands lost to floods would have persisted in the oral record until they became codified in the myths and legends of the first written texts. Interesting to note thatallancient civilisations have some form of mythology that tells of a great flood, "a long time ago." The Tiddalik from Aboriginal Australians:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiddalik

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 12:03:21 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on June 14, 2023, 11:51:27 amWhich could also be the case if they all descended from one surviving family.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 03:57:22 pm
content: There wouldn't be enough genetic diversity in one family, unless it was particularly large (in the thousands). Also, there hasn't been enough time for the genetic differentiation we can observe in native populations, nor enough time for them to migrate to all the long inhabited regions, which in any case have archaeological records of habitation going back tens of thousands of years in many cases.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 04:06:45 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 14, 2023, 03:57:22 pmThe scientific evidence, would appear to say that 40% of the Chinese men (300 Million people), are originally decended from the same 3 Men (Great great great ... grandfathers), from around 5,000 years ago.Edit: I'm trying to illustrate the point. That a very small number of people, can create a massive population. Which in this case, uses China as an example.https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/dna-evidence-suggests-300-million-chinese-men-are-descended-from-just-three-stone-age-grandfathers-e91d1c313489Quote

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 04:55:28 pm
content: How do myths start?There is physical evidence for massive flooding in pre-historic times with human population.Oral traditions of local heroes who survive a flood (possibly on some kind of ship or raft) can become more literate and embellished during transmission, until finally written down.The Babylonian versions pre-date the Hebrew version, but other cultures have such myths.https://www.britannica.com/topic/flood-myth

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 05:00:22 pm
content: An interesting article about pre-historic Chinese demographics:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1040618220300999

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 08:22:15 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 14, 2023, 10:13:38 amI have little doubt there were numerous floods throughout history which from the perspective of people at the time, were of biblical proportions. A typical ancient human was born, lived and died within a radius of probably a few dozen miles, a major flood could easily have the appearance of having covered the entire surface of the earth. Additionally there is the fact that these stories were passed on through generations by word of mouth and/or translated numerous times from language to language and assembled from collections of various documents, we all know what happens to a story that goes through a process like that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 08:27:11 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 14, 2023, 04:06:45 pmThat's the case of any successful organism. A small number of bacterial or viral organisms can set in and multiply to a population of many millions at which point you become sick. Anyone that has ever had a rodent or insect infestation will have observed a small number of them turning into a population of dozens or in the case of insects, tens of thousands. When I was a kid, carpenter ants once infested a corner of our house and by the time they chewed their way through and spread out onto the wall my dad cut open the wall and there were THOUSANDS of them in there. Vacuuming them out with a shop vac resulted in literally several pounds of ants being collected, which had done some significant structural damage.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 09:58:10 pm
content: Your word of the day, palaeodemography.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_demographyDuring the great inundations of 10,000BCE, we were 4M strong. A figure that had grown since a minima of some 10,000 people at 70,000BCE. Implication, we decend from a village size population. 109 billion people are estimated to have ever lived.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimates_of_historical_world_population

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 10:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: magic on June 13, 2023, 08:46:37 amThey added black and brown to represent PoC (not sure what they have to do with it) and the trans colours.███████████

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 11:48:55 pm
content: if one take the words of the author as true the Bible but the interpretation is subject to scientific investigation.a list of conclusions is possible.estimating a day as reckoned from one midnight to the next. pre-flood time.a flood happed as describedthe environmental conditions pre-floodcompared tothe environmental conditions post-floodlarge floating vessel capable of home to estimat of 2500 types of animals. ship design was first naval engineering.species or kind so for example only one kind of dog was needed for all kinds of dog.clean and unclean suggests some animals may have dna corruption.of the 8 humans 2 or 3 may have had some type of dna corruption too. skull malformation or superior intelligenceother books of the Bible suggest humans had clean and unclean for example the sons of Canaan. Amorites.the Holy Grail is before Christ BC so protecting the bloodline of the Son from any unclean dna.promise in the sign of the rainbow in the sky is that a worldwide flood would never happen again.however worldwide fire by sulfur has not been ruled out. mass volcanic eruptions can happen.with heavy worldwide meteor showers.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 12:22:49 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 14, 2023, 10:00:20 pmIt really should be LGBTQIA+EE, where EE is Electronics Engineers whom by definition are a marginalised group, characterised by their interest in PNP and NPN bipolar junction transistors, P-channel and N-channel trannies, as well as both male AND female connectors. Other common characteristics include an inability to find a girlfriend.Or EE can mean Everyone Else so no-one is excluded and we can all live in harmony.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 12:31:34 am
content: The whole rainbow flag thing is just an example of co-opting. Here's an earlier example, from right here in Australia, no less. I actually had a copy many years ago. I wonder what people would make of it nowadays, seeing political correctness hadn't yet been thought of.https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30726/30726-h/30726-h.htm

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 12:45:56 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on June 14, 2023, 11:48:55 pmUnclean animals are the ones that behave in an unclean manner (scavengers, living in filth, etc.). God forbids eating them, which is part of the kosher laws.

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 01:02:32 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 15, 2023, 12:31:34 amAnd it has been the (official) flag of the city of Cusco, Peru, since 1978.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 09:53:28 am
content: I noted at my local pride parade last weekend, the lesbians and gay men marched behind their own flags in their own groups. Inclusivity and diversity is becoming somewhat 'decoupled' in the 21st century. I have no idea if there where any bisexuals, as there was no random group of people in between the L and G formations. As for the drag queens, they just looked fabulous as always.Quote from: VK3DRB on June 15, 2023, 12:22:49 amWe have our ownflagbut it's in a 'non-binary' state. Instead it can betri-state.Let's just avoid that AC-DC rabbit holeAnyone care to design a flag for the EE community?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 03:14:50 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 15, 2023, 12:22:49 am... and then there are software engineers, my head explodes and I don't even want to think about itWell, OK, half of them fit into the TQIA+ so they aren't yetthatfar on the spectrum...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 03:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 15, 2023, 12:22:49 amMost people are not Electronics Engineers, we are a marginalized group. We were oppressed for generations, as nobody identified as Electronics Engineers for centuries. And if you look back to history, it's the oldest profession:"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. "You know how much effort it was too build the power plant for that light and the distribution network, and the backup generators? Someone had to wire it all up, and even before that, someone had to design it."And God saw the light, and it was good" it even passed the tests on the first try.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 04:09:16 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 14, 2023, 04:06:45 pmThat's a misunderstanding of what the data actually represents. It's (almost but not quite) like saying almost everyone in the UK is descended from Richard III, simply because after so many generations, most people in the UKdohave some of his DNA.It's also true, though probably politically uncorrect to say it these days, that a viable breeding population requires fewer males than females, a ratio of 100:1 or more would be feasible. Mitochondrial DNA analysis would probably give a more useful picture of the actual size of the breeding population at the time of those "super-grandfathers".

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 04:27:49 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 15, 2023, 04:09:16 pmOn the other hand. It would seem to indicate, that the concept of a massive flood event, wiping out huge chunks or even all of the Earths population, a very long time ago (e.g. 5,000 years ago). Could have reduced the population to a very small number of initial survivors, perhaps 3 men and a few or so women. Then many thousands of years later (i.e. now), there could be hundreds of millions or billions of people from that original event.The points you made previously about diversity of the over all (worlds) population, and scattering of it, to many parts of the globe, are very good ones. So my explanation above, might need a number of changes, such as to the exact time of the flooding event(s), and other things. To account for how we are, where we are (as regards the worlds human population).N.B. I'm NOT trying to agree (or disagree) with the flood (Noah) theory, just trying to be somewhat scientific.Also, I'd prefer to still take into account the nuclear DNA (nDNA) as well, as the more information that can be used, the more likely, accurate predictions of what really happened, can take place.Anyway, the ratios of taking just 2 animals of each type, wouldn't really work out, as I see it. Because, if a particular animal, needs to eat thousands (each year) of much smaller animals (or fish) to survive. Then just having a single pair of its food source, wouldn't keep it fed.Also, I'm not sure that the entire Earth could be fully, 100% flooded (land wise), for a period of time, then a huge amount of that water, disappears. Really works out, as floods usually just affect, a relatively small percentage of Earth, at any given time.I suppose the flood, could just be in the area, that the then, human population, was living, a very long time ago. Before they became more adventurous, and moved around the globe.The problem with stories, is that it is very easy to just twist them, to fit the available facts. So, you can't really tell, if they are true or not.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 04:43:32 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 15, 2023, 04:27:49 pmThe DNA doesn't show that.Imagine, as a contrived example, there are 1,000 men. 1 of them has sons, while all the others have daughters (obviously contrived, but for illustrative purposes). Thousands of years later, a study of Y chromosomes will find that there was a single originator of it. But he is not the only super-grandfather. All thousand men are super-grandfathers, and their DNA is widely spread. They're just not discoverable through the Y chromosome.Every man who has only daughters, vanishes from a Y chromosome analysis. Every man who has sons, but whose great-grandsons are all killed in a war, vanishes from the analysis. Y chromosome lineages are always vanishing.It doesn't mean that there was a time when there was only one man.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 05:04:47 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 15, 2023, 04:43:32 pmThat makes sense, thanks for clearing that up for me (and others).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 06:23:53 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on June 15, 2023, 12:45:56 amMy interpretation is that the meat from such animals (like pigs) is hard to preserve for a reasonable amount of time c.q. needs to be cooked thouroughly. The invention of refridgerators / freezers has eliminated the preservation problem.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 06:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 15, 2023, 06:23:53 pm

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 06:40:21 pm
content: I was taught that swine (pork) was deemed "unclean" due to the real and present danger of trichinosis.The Hebrew scriptures include a lot of other edibles as unclean, as well.See Leviticus, chapter 11. The lists of clean and unclean include mammals, birds, seafood, and insects.When working with a Muslim in the UK, in order to avoid accidental offense to other Muslim co-workers, I asked what besides pork and alcohol was unclean in Islam.His basic answer was things not likely to be found there (such as roadkill), but to watch for food that had been cooked in lard.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 09:10:54 pm
content: Well guys, if the Chicxulub meteor event did for the dinosaurs, some 74,000 years ago, theToba Super Eruptionalmost did for the human race.The theory goes that after one of the largest recorded paleo eruptions of the Holocene epoch, the resulting climate catastrophe depleted the population of homo sapiens to such a small number, that humanity found itself on theendangered species red list. From just a few thousandbreeding pairs, the DNA of those survivors is in each and every one of us.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theoryRed listof endangered species :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUCN_Red_List