Buying into UK from EU (welectron) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: starfry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 03:15:33 pm
content: Hello can someone with experience of ordering from Welectron into the UK (in the last year since brexit and the rules changed) please share their experience ?I am considering ordering a Brymen meter and accessories from them. With the EEV discount all the items total €129.12, note they don't charge the 19% VAT when shipping to the UK (confirmed with them by email and also by working through their checkout page). Shipping is free (DHL Parcel, handed over to the local post service in the destination country for delivery). With the current exchange rate that is £112.76 which is below the £135 duty threshold as I understand it.Re the vat, the gov.uk site says that seller must charge and account for VAT at the point of sale but welectron have said to me they don't do this.So will this be a clean slam-dunk or will it get stuck for payment of 20% VAT or anything else?Otherwise I can order from Telonic but the package isn't quite as nice and costs a little more; it's probably easier to go this way for peace of mind.Anyone done this recently who can comment?Thanks!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 04:12:59 pm
content: DHL will charge you the VAT and a fee for paying your own taxes. They'll get around to sending the threatening letter about it at some random point long after you've received the package.

author: starfry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 05:53:19 pm
content: It's interesting - according to hmrc, EU businesses are supposed to charge UK vat on consignments valued up to £135. There seems to be no "optional" part to this but welectron clearly don't do it, they told me so. It seems odd to me that hmrc can mandate this when they have no jurisdiction over the seller. I don't know if them not doing it will cause customs issues.The other thing that I don't understand is the "handed over to the local post service in the destination country for delivery" part - I can't see any service on DHL like that so perhaps that doesn't happen in reality. I was wondering if DHL deliver or Royal Mail - and, if Royal Mail, then who does the customs? Royal Mail stick their own fee on top but I know if DHL have a fee (from their web site it would appear not).The welectron package is nicer than the Telonic one. If I know I'm just going to get charged the 20% tax that's cool.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 06:15:58 pm
content: If DHL can possibly charge you a fee, theyWILLcharge you a fee. It's 100% guaranteed.I wouldn't risk it if DHL isanywherein the loop.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 06:52:02 pm
content: I've had EU sellers just chuck the package in the post, no declaration, nothing and it arrives no problem, no fees. It's upto the individual seller how they do this obviously but I don't see what the UK customs can do about it if they just ignore their stupid bl00dy rules!!The process the UK revenue & customs want global sellers to adopt is, the seller must register for a UK VAT account to sell to the UK and the MINIMUM order value must be £135!!! Why TF they impose a minimum value is beyond me, but that's the way it is. I first encountered this with a US seller whose system rejected my online order when it detected a UK destination. I didn't know about all this b0ll0x at the time so I emailed to ask why my order was rejected, which is when they told me about the issue. They said they now don't ship to the UK as the cost of administering a UK VAT account just wasn't worth the hassle. What an utter cluster fcuk!! I'm a Brexiteer and this has annoyed me intensely!! This UK government claiming to be all for international business then coming up with this utter drivel!!However, as I mentioned some sellers are sticking up the royal salute to it and just sending the goods!!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 06:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 04, 2022, 06:52:02 pmWhat did you expect?Wait 'til you have to start paying VAT+fees on the pairs of socks your nephews send you for your birthday,thenyou can complain, but not for things like multimeters.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 06:59:14 pm
content: Quotedont think so,ive paid the vat and had several items well below £135 turn up,no problem ,jlcpcb being the most recent example.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 07:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: starfry on November 04, 2022, 05:53:19 pmThey can't. They just don't want to tell people the reality that it's optional, because they're trying to push all the costs onto other companies and the buyers.QuotePlus whatever the current obnoxious DHL fee is. Around £15 as I recall, to send a letter after making everyone else submit all the paperwork for them.Quote from: unknownparticle on November 04, 2022, 06:52:02 pmYes, where are these brexit benefits you were looking for exactly? So far it's more expense, more hassle, and no gain.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 07:20:55 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 04, 2022, 07:09:18 pmOnly because the EU is all pi55ed off that we bailed out of their little gravy train, authoritarian game and are sabotaging us, and to send a message to other countries that have the misfortune to be in the EU that this is how it will be if they dare try the same!! And lets face it, wasting time and money is their specialty!! Plus we have a group of hardcore remoaners in UK government who are cooperating with them!I'll take the pain now because eventually they will have to cooperate or they lose as much as we do.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 07:27:53 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 04, 2022, 07:20:55 pmThey're sabotaging us? I don't see why they'd need to. The Conservatives are doing a fine job all by themselves. But that's enough politics.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 07:32:11 pm
content: France and EU post now levies 20% VAT on all incoming packages value declaredPLUS shipping.Envelope A4 sized wright 100 gms paperwork from USA><France val 0 post cost $16, France La Poste required EU 11 fees/customs or refused delivery!Think the EU VAT/tarrif threshold was lowered to EU 20 or zero of total: value plus freightJon

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 07:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on November 04, 2022, 07:32:11 pmThe threshold is 0. Fortunately many of the large selling platforms (Aliexpress, Amazon, Ebay Global Shipping program) can charge VAT right away which saves you the hassle and the extra fees.Not sure what the UK is doing. This page is clear as mud:https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-dutyMy experience in the Netherlands is that it is a good practise to look for good deals locally and abroad. In some cases a local dealer could end up being cheaper. It really depends on the kind of item you want to buy so there is no generic rule.

author: starfry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 08:03:26 pm
content: So DHL's so-called "Advance Payment or Disbursement charge" is currently £11.00 or 2.5% of the total Duty and/or VAT incurred, whichever is the greater.https://mydhl.express.dhl/gb/en/help-and-support/customs-clearance-advice/duties-and-taxes.html#/receiving_shipments

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 08:05:51 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 04, 2022, 07:20:55 pmThis thread's gonna get shut down for "politics", but .... LOL!

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 08:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 04, 2022, 07:27:53 pmWell thats another issue but as I said, government remoaners are also helping their EU masters.

author: 807
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 08:17:53 pm
content: The £135 limit is for when you start paying customs duty as well as VAT. Under £135 it's just VAT.There used to be a VAT exempt value at one time, for low cost items, but it looks like it's been scrapped?I've had occasions in the past when I've got away with not paying VAT on imported stuff, but when you do have to pay it, you get stung for the £12-£15 "handling" or "processing" fee, or whatever they call it.At least paying VAT in advance, as I've recently done buying stuff from China on eBay & Aliexpress, it saves the extra £12-£15.I wonder how HMRC know which parcels have had VAT pre-paid & which ones haven't?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 08:26:49 pm
content: DHL doesn't care.If they can get £11 for scanning a bar code they'll push it through whatever bullshit system they need to.If you want to waste hours of your life reclaiming then you're free to try.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 08:56:10 pm
content: Quote from: 807 on November 04, 2022, 08:17:53 pmIn the EU, if a (non-EU) seller collects VAT under the new IOSS scheme (for shipments <150€), they have to add their IOSS VAT number to the customs declaration. Not sure if it works the same way in the UK. The UK system seems heavily inspired by IOSS but UK goverment communication is a lot less clear and while the EU scheme is optional, the UK seemingly wants to force overseas sellers to collect VAT themselves. If that is indeed the case, frankly, for most small businesses it is probably not worth the hassle and they might be better off selling through eBay or Amazon (and let them handle VAT), imposing a minimum order value of 135£ or restricting UK business to Northern Ireland.Also, if they actually go through with replacing all of the retained EU law, things might get a lot more complicated. For example, if they change product safety standards, you might not be able to sell your product to the UK at all without separate compliance testing.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 09:04:00 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on November 04, 2022, 08:56:10 pmThey already have. It's called UKCA.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 09:12:30 pm
content: Quotenope,we almost have,the ce mark is still valid up until 31 dec 2022, unless its coming from northern ireland were the ce mark will still be acceptable

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 09:40:27 pm
content: Quote from: pope on November 04, 2022, 09:04:00 pmKind of. There is the UKCA mark now but the underlying rules are still essentially the same. If it has CE mark, it can probably carry a UKCA mark based on the existing testing and documentation. And CE is still accepted until the end of the year. But yes, if they started actually enforcing that next year, you maybe wouldn't be able buy stuff from overseas so easily anymore, unless the manufacturer or seller cares enough about the UK market to deal with that.And apparently there is a government initiative to revoke or replace all (!) retained EU law by the end of 2023 (!). To be honest, that sounds like a lot of work and I can't imagine how they would even do that in a year. But if they are serious about it, then you might soon have to test (and maybe design) specifically for the UK market. And that's a very different story.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 10:23:15 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 04, 2022, 04:12:59 pmThat's evil, too. You've already accepted the package and opened it before the bill arrives.Now you have no choice but to pay an extra £20 or you'll be reported to the government.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 11:01:05 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 04, 2022, 06:52:02 pmI just came here to say that I love British humour.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 09:52:09 pm
content: The way the UK decided to charge VAT on imports is totally nuts, there are a number of vendors who I'd like to buy from who will no longer sell the UK customers (at least private ones) directly because of the stupid VAT registration requirement. Sounds like the EU at least makes it optional (albeit with the need to then pony up the fees for collection from the postal/courier company), which means it's less likely the company will just put EU customers in the too-hard basket like they do with the UK. NZ/(I think Aus too) also do things with a bit more sanity - you only need to register and start collecting VAT (GST) when your annual sales top a certain value, at which point I assume it's actually worth the effort for the company making the sales.Brexit has little to do with this particular issue (other than making this bullshit occur when buying from EU companies rather than just non-EU), though I haven't seen anything to disprove it being an insanely terrible idea overall.As for the courier's extra fees, I've seen mention of people managing to pay just the VAT portion and telling the courier company to otherwise piss off (receiver has no contract with them saying they can charge the fee!), but it sounds like a lot of hassle.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 10:26:17 pm
content: Quote from: Hydron on November 05, 2022, 09:52:09 pmIt has everything to do with this issue - we'd be following the EU implementation and using their common payment portal if we hadn't bailed out.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 02:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 05, 2022, 10:26:17 pmFair point (was thinking of the stupidity of the UK implementation rather than what would have happened without brexit); I guess the second part of my sentence applies after all! Also a much larger incentive for non EU/UK sellers to deal with the VAT registration paperwork if it means being able to sell to the whole EU block rather than just the UK.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 05:25:35 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 05, 2022, 10:26:17 pmWell, it seems that the difference is that using the EU portal isn't mandatory. There is no requirement to use it but the receiver of the good will have to pay VAT + fees if these aren't prepaid. What the EU did by offering a portal is allowing to streamline the process to make it easier for foreign companies to sell goods to EU citizens. And the idea isn't new. Ebay has been doing this much longer through their Global Shipping Program.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 05:29:18 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 06, 2022, 05:25:35 pmIt cannot be mandatory here - they just want to pretend it is. While refusing to reference the law for us to inform ourselves.