Old automotive Diagnostic hardware - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Cozzmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 10:47:06 am
content: Hi All, i'm a sucker for late 90's Nissans and have acquired an original dealer 'Consult' diagnostic unit. I have fixed it up to working condition but i'm now 'on a mission' to try and collect and protect the data that is contained with the 'program cards' that are used on them. They look to be a PCMCIA Flash card on first glance, but looking closer, the first issue is the connector pin count is non-standard. I would really like to find some way to backup/replace the cards as they're hard to find and expensive when i've found them. I have borrowed a card or 2 to do some specific diagnostics on my car but the card i have that is compatible is in German...I imagine that using the card reader module that comes off the back of the unit is probably going to be the path to reading out the data at some point in time, but that's a fair way down the road.Anyways, here are a few pics of the stuff, i'm interested to hear what the seasoned professionals think of the hardware and if anyone has ever seen such a PCMCIA style card with this single row connector on it.

author: robca
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 11:45:48 pm
content: Cool find!I'm not a "seasoned professional" by any stretch of imagination, but some of the devices in picture 5936 seem to be EPROMs of some sort (unless it's a lighting trick coupled with the low resolution picture). If that's a late 90s diagnostic tool, very likely was designed in the late 80s, and EPROMs were quite common then (and I used my share)If they look like there is a quartz window on top and you can see the structure of the chip with a high magnification lens, cover those chips immediately with the darkest material you can find (ideally black stuff *and* aluminum foil. EPROMs are erased by UV and while normally that requires a longish UV lamp exposure to completely erase one, strong light is enough to flip come cells randomly (especially on old devices), forever damaging the content.Your best bet would be to attach a logic analyzer and start figuring out the protocol. The chip is a 3 to 8 decoder, used to provide the right address to the chips, and that card does't look like any PCMCIA I ever saw. It seems to be a proprietary design like a game cartridge would be. A convenient way to provide rugged data storage at a time when flash storage was not readily available (and provide some level of IP protection, security by obscurity)

author: Cozzmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 09:25:09 am
content: Thanks robca,They definitely look like EPROMs, even the bond wires are visible, uncovered only for the picture then put back as they were of course. This tool was developed in the late 80's for sure. The physical size is the same as a PCMCIA card, its just the pin header that is non-standard (so its not 'actually' a PCMCIA card as such).Part of the initialisation procedure of the unit when inserting a new card is a download from the card to the units' on board memory so that should provide a pretty good window into how the card is accessed, when i get around to that !

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 01:35:18 pm
content: That memory card looks like the same ‘standard’ as the ones used in some Advantest Spectrum Analysers. They have a single row of pins on the connector. This could be an early PCMCIA standard ? I will do some digging on the Advantest cards as they are more likely to have been discussed on forums than these specialist car diagnostic cards.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 01:38:06 pm
content: I will add any URL’s to discussions of the Advantest cards here........https://www.electronicspoint.com/forums/threads/advantest-memory-card.102941/http://www.fatpigdog.com/Advantest_R3361A/R3361A.htm

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 02:04:13 pm
content: So not an early PCMCIA standard.......https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JEIDA_memory_cardIt is likely a variation of the casing standard using a single row of pins. The key is to establish what equipments used such as they are not unique in my experience. Once a more common deployment is identified, the pin out may be locatable. No joy on the Advantest front but I will look in my archives.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 02:36:06 pm
content: Page 196 (PDF reader page no.) onwards of this R3361 service manual details the Advantest Memory card interfacehttps://elektrotanya.com/advantest_r3261_r3361_sm.pdf/download.html#dlIt might be worth comparing the pin count (20) and the provided pin usage detail with your card. The Advantest card is read/write SRAM but that will not effect the pin out.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 03:16:08 pm
content: I have just dug out my Advantest memory card and sadly I think it is different to your card. It has only 20 pins and your pictures show 38 pins on your card. Note that your first picture has a problem. When you click on it a picture of an oscilloscope appears !I attach pictures of the Advantest memory card for reference.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 03:25:05 pm
content: Look what I found searching for “38 pin PCMCIA” ........https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040458368.htmlA 38 pin 128K FLASH memory card in a PCMCIA format. Such cards are used in Industrial controllers38PINS BF128A1-BZCSpecifications:- Size: 128KB- Interface: ATA- Pins: 38-pin- Package size: Type II PCMCIA- Voltage: 5.0v operation- Internal: Flash Disk- Flash Type: NAND flash Technology- Speed: Burst Mode- From to Host: 20MB/sec.- From to Flash: 8MB/sec.- Read Speed: Up-to 5MB/sec.- Write Speed: Up-to 3MB/sec.- Temperature: -40ºC up-to +85ºC.- Non-volatile solid-state; no moving parts- maximizes battery power.- Data is not lost when power is turned off.- IDE Mode (No DMA Support): PIO Mode 1,2,3,4.Further investigation needed though !Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 03:28:23 pm
content: I will add links to 38 pin PCMCIA cards here ........https://www.premierelect.co.uk/product/128kb-38-pin-fujisoku-sram-card/https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUJISOKU-BS128G1-C-13-SRAM-128-KBYTE-MEMORY-CARD-BS128G1C13-38-PIN-B-SERIES-/133560710658

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 03:33:43 pm
content: More interesting information that may help ....http://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39225So we could be looking at a “MACRO-251S” or “MACRO-251P” cardhttps://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=e201397510Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 03:41:51 pm
content: Another interesting page with examples of manufacturers who use the 38 pin cards and the ITT part numbershttps://www.tecsys.de/en/products/storage-solutions/memory-cards/older-card-typeshttps://www.tecsys.de/en/products/storage-solutions/memory-cards/older-card-types/fujisoku-38-pinThat is enough Googling for me for now !You need to delve into the Internet fir the MACRO-251 card pin out. Alternatively, look for the service manuals fir the named manufacturers equipment that yes these cards. You may get lucky. It just takes time and patienceFraserThe Fujisoku 38-pin memory card is compatible with the "Star Card" from ITT-Cannon. Because of their low power consumption and stable construction, these memory cards have been used in many professional applications.You can find a corresponding reader- /writer hereThe card has not been produced since 2007; however, TecSys has stocks of SRAM cards with a capacity of 128KB (BS128G1-CZ-13) and some ITT Cannon SRAM and Flash cards.In the table, the available cards are highlighted in yellow:ITT-Cannon Part NumberFujisoku Equivalent Part NumberDescriptionCSC-128K-SM-06BS128G1-CZ-13SRAM 128 KByteCSC-256K-SM-06BS256G1-CZ-13SRAM 256 KByteCSC-512K-SM-06BS512G1-CZ-13SRAM 512 KByteCSC-001M-SM-06BS1024G1-CZ-13SRAM 1 MByteCSC-256K-F-03No equivalentIntel Series 1Flash 256 KByteCSC-512K-F-03No equivalentIntel Series 1Flash 512 KByteCSC-001M-F-03No equivalentIntel Series 1Flash 1 MByteExample applications: Yokogawa instruments, Thies or GIP, dust measuring device Grimm, stage and lighting systems e.g. Pulsar Masterpiece, MA Lighting Scancommander, Lightcommander, Glory WR200, controller from Stange-Elektronik, Datalogger MeteoLOG TDL 14, Sandiacre TG 320, Ensonic SQ synthesizers.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 03:50:47 pm
content: The 38 pin card card reader/writer is available but will be very expensive !https://www.tecsys.de/fileadmin/user_upload/PDFs/LaufwerkeDBs/Fujisoku_Laufwerke_DBs/RW-MULTI8-FUJI_DB_EN_20170220_RH.pdfFraser

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 04:25:32 pm
content: Interestingly Farnell has a little info for that BF128A1-BZC card:http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/52560.pdfAnd it seems to be used with knitting machines too.There's a datasheet here:https://www.premierelect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/fujisoku1.pdf

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 04:40:31 pm
content: CJay,Great work. The datasheet provides the pinout and that can be compared to the OP's card to see if the power rails match. That would be a start for confirming the cards identity in terms of the interface. From the information I have seen, these cards are ATA so a reader should be a DIY possibility. Whether standard flash card reading software can cope with the cards format is another matter though. I had to buy an OMNIDrive to read a Linear Flash PCMCIA card but hopefully the OP's card has no such special needs.https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/ata.htmI have added the datasheet for future reference in case the source disappears.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 05:37:21 pm
content: Note the 74HC138 demultiplexer IC in the 'mystery' memory card. Tracing the 74HC138 input pins to the 38 pin connector may help prove the identity of the interface and card.Fraser

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 07:11:44 pm
content: I don't think they're anything more than a simple memory cartridge, I think you could read them out by simply stepping through the address space and 'capturing' the data lines.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 08:07:02 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 28, 2021, 07:11:44 pmBased on the Fujisoku pinout Fraser posted above, that seems to be the case.8 data lines= 1 byte20 address lines= 1M wordsLargest capacity card shown: 1MB SRAM or Flash

author: larry104
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 30, 2021, 09:01:09 pm
content: Does anyone know if there are still connectors available anywhere? It's single row 38 pin, 1.27mm pitch. I have an old card reader from CardWize (Card Genie 38 Pin) but no driver or any description. So, my plan was to get a connector and use a RASPI to read the card. For my application I only need 15 address bits so I have enough GPIO's.

author: Cozzmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2021, 12:09:46 am
content: WOW you guys are AWESOME ! Sorry i haven't been back to this thread, i received no email notifications and don't get back here often.I'll wade through all this great information and compare/check pinouts to confirm and report back in the next couple of days !Thanks once again.

author: Cozzmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2021, 12:16:08 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 28, 2021, 03:16:08 pmFixed the picture. Also attached to this post.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2021, 12:25:25 am
content: Hm, 1.27mm or 1.25? Subtle, but should make the difference over that many pins.If the latter, there may be some JST parts around that can be hacked, or maybe even mate.If the former, can you tell if the pin sizes are normal for that type (fine pitch) header? Might be any old pin strip from Samtec etc. works.Tim

author: Cozzmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2021, 09:26:05 am
content: The connector pitch matches a standard PCMCIA card pitch.

author: gweilo8888
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 10:28:32 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 28, 2021, 03:41:51 pmI just stumbled upon this thread from a Google search prompted by one such application. ITT-Cannon Star Cards were apparently used by the Williams Formula One team in the early 1990s for at least their iconic, active suspension FW14B and FW15C as you can see in this video:

author: bkw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2022, 01:19:45 am
content: This looks very similar to the card used in the TANDY WP-2 external ram/rom card slot.It's NOT the same, I can already see at least 2 things that remove all doubt, but it looks like the physical connector is just a different variation from the same line, and the electrical interface for most all of these sorts of cards are usually very simple, different pinouts but usually the same standard signals, not a fancy protocol like ide or anything, just a plain sram/rom bus connection with just a few extra simple bits like a card-detect pin etc.I have some info collected herehttp://tandy.wiki/WP-2Most of that doesn't apply, but there is a datasheet for the connectors.http://tandy.wiki/File:JC20-B38S-F1.pdfIt shows several variations of the same style of connector and they look like they match all the different styles in this thread so far.There are 20-pin versions that look like they match the 20-pin card for one of the units early in this thread.In particular from there, JC20-D38S-F1-A1 looks like it might be the 38-pin connector for the 38-pin cards with the pins off-center on the edge.That connector is only 1.7mm thick, so if that were soldered on the edge of a 0.4mm pcb like the drawing says, and and then place a 1.6mm blank pcb or 3d print or other spacer material over or under that, you'd have a stack that probably matches the 38 pin card edge shown in a pic earlier in this thread. If the spacer is on top instead of underneath, then you can have room for big components like a battery holder like in the WP-2 compatible card I made.https://github.com/bkw777/WP-2_IC_CardExcept of course you can't get those original connectors any more that I can see. The connector I'm using for my WP-2 card is 3mm thick, so it's too thick to use for the off-center style this card needs. But I did find some other cheap 1.27mm pitch connectors that were 1.8 to 2.0mm wide.https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799958800050.htmlActually that one jst says 1.8 so, maybe good enough and don't even worry about it, but others say 2.0mm, and that is just different enough that you can probably still use it but need to deal with the difference somehow like sanding it down a little maybe.One problem though, I tried using these for my own card design just because they are so much cheaper than the Samtec part I'm using, but the metal parts inside the connector are so loose-fitting that the pins hit the edges of the metal parts when you try to mate the connectors, and it can take a lot of wiggling to get the card onto the pins. It's super agrevating and you risk damaging the pins in the slot, so I use the Samtec part even though they are about $10 *each*.Aside from that problem, you could probably create a new ram card from scratch starting with the WP-2 IC card just for the board outline, change the connector position a little to account for it's different depth than the one I'm using (there's already a footprint in the project local library that shows where to put the connector and board edge cut relative to the full outer card body, so that the pins do not poke too far into the connector when the card bottoms out in the slot. The connector can not be simply flush with the face of the card, it must be recessed). The schematic for your card is probably hardly any different from this one for WP-2, just with the pinout arranged in some other order. Essentially just a simple standard sram/eprom/eeprom bus connection with a few extra simple bits for the battery, backfeed protection, cap for battery-change grace period, pullup/downs for chip-select when the card is removed, and you may want to add a spdt switch on /WE between /WE from the bus and VMEM. My card doesn't have that because it doesn't work on a WP-2 (WP-2 fails to read the card at all is /WE is disconnected). But basically nothing fancy going on in these things. Once you get the pinout for the socket, you can make the whole card easy.You'd need a thin pcb like 0.4mm just like for the original connector, not the 1.2mm my card needs and definitely not a standard 1.6mm. Might get away with 0.6mm .

author: Yeti
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2024, 04:05:45 pm
content: Ok Guys just be gentle I know it is an old post but someone might read it that has an answer,Just joined here as I do have similar problems and newbie in this world. Not in the automotive world but in the 32 pin SRAM card bits.I have 2 OEM Mitsubishi MUT II Data loggers / Tester. They use 128 or 265 KBytes SRAM cards.I have:1 brand new OEM 256KBYTE card (functioning)1 second hand 128KBYTE card from an old sawing machine FUJISOKU BF128G1-C (functioning)2 brand new 128KBYTE Flash Memory cards FUJISOKU BF128A1-BZC (not functioning)Would it be possible to make the Flash memory cards work with the MUT II. At the minute it does show free slots (data) on the card but it won't let me write any data to the card as it is showing the message low battery. Is think it missing the battery voltage signal on pin 2 as it's a flash card or might the Access time to be long (250ms instead of the 200ms of a SRAM card) And yes I did check the write switch is the correct position.Anyone can enlighten me a bit in this matter?Would the solution be just to add a 3 volt DC signal on pin 2 to mimic the CR2325 battery?TIA

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 01:40:56 pm
content: If you are trying to use Linear Flash in place of SRAM, you are wasting your time as they are not interchangeable in most embedded computer applications.https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/52560.pdfFraser