EEVblog #561 - Mailbag - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 07:53:28 am
content: http://www.frantone.com/https://www.youtube.com/user/ContourCorsetsApollo LVDC teardown:Part 1:Part 2:Part 3:Original:RCA Numitron Nixie tube display:http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/Numitron_RCA_01.pdfXMOS StartKit:http://www.xmos.com/startkithttp://ludzinc.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/stencil-mania.html

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 08:43:20 am
content: I think we just threw out heaps of those old bubble-displays while tidying, didn't know they'd be of any interest to anyone

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 08:49:54 am
content: i was surprised to see the apollo board with smd ic's. i didnt think they were in use until the 80's.so, when did the use of smd components begin?

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 08:50:39 am
content: His noodley appendage! I was instantly reminded of Douglas Adams and The Great White Handkerchief.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 09:08:22 am
content: Neet mailbag!Dave: The nixie tube could have been made in the 80's - they were made still in those times.QuoteFor consumer stuff you are generally correct, but in mil, space and special tech it began much sooner. The Saturn board is atleast a decade or two ahead in certain terms of the average tech of that era IMHO.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 09:34:37 am
content: Long live the Nixie! Almost as good as a 7 segment LED display.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 09:38:05 am
content: Quote from: daqq on December 26, 2013, 09:08:22 amAnd being a decade or two ahead is typical for military stuff. Killing people seems to be a high motivation factor in tech development.

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 09:42:13 am
content: David you just have to make a Nixie clock or something with those Nixie tubes =-)

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 09:43:27 am
content: QuoteHaving an effectively unlimited budget and extra motivation also helps

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:27:49 am
content: For a run down memory lane, have a look at this Burroughs promo for logic modules.look at the logic modules around 1.36 minutes - a valve based logic one then a plug in transistor logic module then ICs. And the "huge" disk storage.

author: Switching Power
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:50:23 am
content: Numitrons are different from Nixie tubes.Nixie tubes use a gas discharge like neon bulbs but Numitrons use tiny incandescent filaments like ordinary light bulbs.So don't put high voltage on Numitrons because they will be destroyed.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:15:37 am
content: XMOS StartKit XCOREI also got one and Im a little baffled. All they have on the website is PR wank and 'look at us we are as cool as arduino' videosThey dont even tell you MHz or ram size of the thing :/I think its this onehttps://www.xmos.com/support/documentation?category=xcore&subcategory=xCORE-Analog%20(A)&product=16679500MHz /8 logical cores, 64KB ram, some DSP instructions (they never mention what those actually are?), some proprietary SERDES you cant reuse?, some USB with undefined speed and no documentation on how to configure?, no mention of any DMA for IO?Im lost. They have plenty PR BS brochures, but I cant find real documentation

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:55:52 am
content: Dave - it may be worth trying to get one of the XMOS guys on the Amp Hour, as they have some interesting history back to the Inmos Transputer days .

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:36:51 pm
content: Hey Dave,yes, the wire is too thin. But I have a suspicion that it isn't even copper. Did you notice the springy-ness of the leads? And the resistance is way too high as well.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: madworm on December 26, 2013, 12:36:51 pmMight be fun to put 16A through it to see what happens....or at least measure the resistance

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:12:36 pm
content: I think you should pass it on to Mike. He has access to weird and interesting stuff, so this fits his style and knowledge I think.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 26, 2013, 12:44:56 pmI know what will happen.. My white workbench has a some carbon residue from a burning power cable.It was supplied with a spare PC power supply, labeled as a 3 x 0.75 mm2, 10 A, but when loaded with a less than 1000 VA load it went into flames.Further investigation revealed it was assembled with 0.30 (or thinner) mm2 wires.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:29:59 pm
content: Well, at least its still copper, just wait until you have these kind of cable, aluminium or whatever metal cores in their disposal that are coated with copper "like" surface.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:31:53 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on December 26, 2013, 11:15:37 amIt isTransputers Reloadedall over the place. Just as with transputers there are a lot of very bold claims about xcores around. And there are a lot of people still around who don't trust anything remotely related to transputers or the people who had a hand in developing them.

author: gemby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:34:13 pm
content: Quote from: Kjetil on December 26, 2013, 08:43:20 amHuh, throwing away stuff like this is a sin imho, those obsolete stuff does not have real value, but to try it out, learn something, or just hack for fun, it is fantastic. If you do not need it, somebody would be glad to get it, or even pay for it, or at least shipping.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 03:43:24 pm
content: Those LED displays look like exactly soviet/russian ones back that time, i had a calculator with themAnd nixie look very close to IN-12 (??-12).I still have bunch of those, had a nixie clock project for one of customers

author: ratdude747
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:43:11 pm
content: I have a bunch of 1976 HP 5082-7415 LED bubble displays... I actually used one of them on my Atmel AVR class and Intro to communications final project ... I attached a picture of the display board I made to drive the display. My communications professor (also an EEVblog fan) liked it so much he actually requested two of my spare displays (which I was happy to supply). Ironically, I sourced the display from another professor, who gave me 3 orgainization stand drawers of things of vintage parts (analog and digital) and a 1963 Heathkit 1012 Scope + manual (works in good condition no less).Those Nixie tubes are hard to find... high demand, low supply.

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:02:54 pm
content: While the LVDC was impressive for its day, the Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) in the Command Module was even more integrated with flat-pack ICs:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_ComputerNote that the AGC was operational in 1966, a mere eight years after this, the first IC:The Apollo Program effort was absolutely gigantic, greatly advancing technologies in numerous areas simultaneously, something I could best appreciate after watching the official NASA progress reports from that time included on these great DVD sets:The Mighty Saturns: Saturn Vhttp://www.spacecraftfilms.com/themightysaturnssaturnv.aspxThe Mighty Saturns: Saturn 1 & 1Bhttp://www.spacecraftfilms.com/themightysaturnssaturn1and1b.aspxAn example of those quarterly reports, a very early one. Click on the YouTube icon to watch the video on YouTube with channel links to 40 of them on the right. I could watch them for hours (and did). The beauty of engineering...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:22:43 pm
content: I have a Motorola databook from 1972 with the flip chip datasheets in it, along with an old Nat Semi databook from the same time with a whole lot of chip die shots for hybrid circuits in it. Scanned, but the PDF's are close to 30M each, and my web host will kill me if I link them public.The TO92 LED's I remember from AM International copiers from the early 1980's ( the small cheap 300kg units that would easily do 40 million copies before you replaced them with another) used with a matching TO92 phototransistor used as paper path sensors, mechanism position sensors and pretty much any application where you would use a low operation force microswitch.The plus indicator is actually a filament display, you run it off 5V direct from logic. Very nice and very reliable, though I really hated changing those on aircraft equipment because of the wiring loom needing to be cut to get it out then relaced to fit the board back. They were rated for a 100 000 hour operational lifetime, really only failing from vibration but if you have a line of 30 40 year old ones that lifetime is getting pretty close to monthly. they were available NOS from the stores, with 30cm PTFE24 AWG wire leads.Copper price I can agree on, I get good money for old copper cable at the scrappie, even more ( like $5 per kilo) for bright copper. You can see why it gets stolen.Drager sensor does Oxygen, CO, CO2, Methane and SO2 detection, and is there to warn if you are in danger. Sort of an electronic canary, just needs electricity instead of birdseed. The oxygen sensors are scary expensive, and have a lifetime of around 6 months after installing, even if not used. Shelf life of around 2 years as well. I used to use them in FMCG packaging, and the cost for them was really painful, even if calibration was very easy by just adjusting the meter to read 20.5% in fresh open air and then checking it was under 3% in a flooded N2 bag ( 3% was the best the nitrogen generator would give at low flow, if you ran at full it would be 5% of O2 in the N2 output, good enough to give a boost in product lifetime without needing preservatives, and a shed load cheaper than having a contract with Afrox or Air Liquide ( and the cost of the generator was the same as a 2 month period of gas delivery) only needing oil free dry compressed air and a regular diet of 0.2 micron filter packs used 2 in series along with an upstream 5 micron oil coalescing filter. waste gas was around 30% oxygen, was looking at a fish tank but just vented in via a silencer. The other sensors are likely either heated pellet or safety fine catalysing gas sensors, operating by heating up a bead in a fine double mesh housing and detecting either a temp rise or fall depending on the gas concentration.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:41:33 pm
content: Quote from: Switching Power on December 26, 2013, 10:50:23 amCorrect!

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:47:42 pm
content: Quote from: gemby on December 26, 2013, 01:34:13 pmYes I know it's a sin, but we also had way too many of them. We did keep the best examples. Shipping is expensive here in Norway (sending a small letter to US/AU costs US$6.50 or thereabouts), and packages even more, so we decided it wasn't worth the time. I do love vintage stuff, but not when you inherit a electronics club full of it (from roof to ceiling), with no room to put modern, more interesting gear

author: RobB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:49:10 pm
content: There is a reason they are called aluminium cans Daveand the sample was clearly machined not etched.

author: RobB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:54:56 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on December 26, 2013, 01:12:36 pm+1 Mike is the king of reverse engineering and fundemental physics

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:19:32 pm
content: Quote from: Kjetil on December 26, 2013, 08:43:20 amNooooooooooo! My first calc (a Texet IIRC) had a bubble display. Indeed, the first Sinclair digital watch used them I think.Mark my words - they will become the next Nixie or VFD when the hipsters re-discover them

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:20:28 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 26, 2013, 06:19:32 pmMaybe I should try to dig them up then :-P

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 07:45:27 pm
content: An older gentleman I knew who just recently passed used to make basically 7 segment displays with neons in them, and later they switched to LED's. It was a nice aluminum cube with flat lenses and sectioned off areas inside and backfilled with clear resin. They looked very nice and durable, but when genuine 7 segment displays became affordable they stopped making them.

author: Steffen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 08:04:43 pm
content: Have seen the scene with the power cord. Totally out of spec. even with contact resistance about 1.x Ohms for all three wires it's out of VDE regulations. Device and wiretests for VDE 0701/0702 test the PE path with up to 25A for a standard safetyclass I 3,6 kVA Device and the PE connection has to be below 0,3 Ohms below 5m length. Add 0,1 Ohm per additional 7,5m for specified boundaries (Max. 1 Ohms). Sorry, I don't know the origin of this cord, but the EU has to be more strict about this. Theses power cords can cause real problems like fire or injuries. The EU or the Federal Republic of Germany has to insure that thoes wires can never pass our borders. The saftety logos are fake as usual.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:38:42 pm
content: robrenz should be the last person to get the LVDC board, so he can restore it to pristine condition.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:10:25 am
content: Very interesting mailbag.I suspect the PCB may have been made by IBM. It looks similar to some boards that also had DTL in them in that era. IBM created the computer used in Apollo 11, so maybe the one in the mailbag an IBM developed board. That same Apollo 11 computer technology was used in the IBM Series/1, a system I really enjoyed working on in the early 1980's.The Series/1 was an incredibly flexible machine employing open ended architecture. The applications were extremely varied - overnight money market communications interface at the major banks, Telecom directory assistance, hotel management, and processing for the oil industry to name a few.The smelliest application was a big laundry company in Melbourne that washed hospital bed linen. The Series/1 was used to count dirty bedsheets as that were thrown down a shute. I have to literally run holding my breath to get the the machine to work on it, especially in the summer.The strangest (and second smelliest) application was at the Howard Florey Institute at Melbourne University. The Series/1 was connected up to a number of sheep to measure hypertension via the salt content in their flesh.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:29:09 am
content: The LED with 20mA through it is probably not defective. The early ones from before about 1973 were very inefficient compared to today. Remember back to the late 70's... your standard off the shelf red LED needed 15-20mA to glow decently. I am surprised the bubble LEDs used so little current though. Those LED digital watches using bubble LED's chewed though batteries.Recently I was experimenting with an ultra high brightness blue LED. I found that even 50uA still made the thing glow dimly! These days, 1mA is usually enough for a debug indicator on a PCB.

author: steves
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:44:52 am
content: How about a countdown timer using a Nixie and with the Saturn chips in the control logic?

author: wilheldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 01:53:14 am
content: My suggestion for the LVDC board is:Fran - OriginatorDave - Further deconstructionMike - Xray, further deconstructionBen Krasnow - SEM, further deconstructionPhotonicInduction - See how it handles 10kV

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 02:31:45 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 26, 2013, 12:44:56 pm220v/16A on a skimpy wire like that... I'd expect to see something more in line with Photoninduction's videos.. Aka smokin and burn carpet.PS: what's the idea with those floor-sized carpets Brits seem to love? Ain't those hard to keep clean etc?

author: 99tito99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 04:07:19 am
content: Hi Dave,How about pulling the wires from that One Hung Low plug and send 250V at 16A and see if you get some Chinese smoke.Cheers,Science-Mark**************************

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 04:43:59 am
content: Quote from: JoannaK on December 27, 2013, 02:31:45 amJoanna in the English speaking world we call those "floor sized" carpetswall-to-wallcarpets. Yes they are very popular, and yes they are very filthy. You started to see them become very common in North America in the mid 1960's. It was a way for poor and low middle class people to feel they were living the luxous, and for builders of cheap commodity tract housing to equip the new housing supply with the tacky look their tasteless moron customers demanded. Every house in Canada built in the seventies came with shag carpet in the living room, and sometimes in all the other rooms except the kitchen. Think about shag bathrooms with men and boys pissing and dribbling all over!They are not onlyhardto clean they areimpossibleto keep clean. Oh sure there are an endless number of fly by night carpet cleaning companies which will hound and pester you with unsolicited advertising and the do it your-selfer can rent steam cleaners at any home-depot type place, but these cleaners are just a fiction. Once you steam clean, and you need to do it over and over, you get to the point were the rinse water sucked out of the carpet is a pale brown. That is as good as it gets, the remainder of the dirt is permanently bonded in the fibers and now you have a layer of detergent residue which means new dirt clings that much better/faster than before.Once your dog does this:http://youtu.be/gFvkr6GBWLwon your new carpet, its all over for that one.

author: warp_foo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:20:05 am
content: Quote from: wilheldp on December 27, 2013, 01:53:14 amI'd vote for this!

author: RupertGo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:23:55 am
content: The story of Monsanto and LEDs is fascinating. The company was the first to mass-produce LEDs, mostly because it was really interested in selling phosphorous-compound materials (still is, as phosphates) and wanted to grow the market. It got into bed with HP, as test equipment was the obvious market for data displays back then, but it didn't really work out.Here's a good takehttp://datamath.org/Display/Monsanto.htmon the story, including stuff on Nick Holonyak, father of the LED and much more besides.Monsanto got out of LEDs in 1979; it just didn't fit with its business and competition by then was fierce.

author: steves
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 06:23:10 am
content: Quote from: warp_foo on December 27, 2013, 05:20:05 amYeah, and then Jeri could make replacements for the popped ones.

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 06:32:20 am
content: Quote from: wilheldp on December 27, 2013, 01:53:14 amYou should have Laina in there too, to talk about all the brilliant people who have worked on this

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 06:50:20 am
content: Quote from: JoannaK on December 27, 2013, 02:31:45 am

author: tusisma
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:05:44 am
content: I just found the maintenance manual for the LVDC boards:Part 1:http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/LaboratoryMaintenanceInstructionsForLVDC-Volume1-GeneralDescriptionAndTheory.pdfhttp://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/LaboratoryMaintenanceInstructionsForLVDC-Volume2-MaintenanceData.pdfMore docs for the Saturn Project.http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:16:07 am
content: Quote from: notsob on December 26, 2013, 10:27:49 amBrilliant. Thanks for the post! In those days every man wore a suit and a tie in the computing industry in Australia. Today, suits and ties have been replaced by largely casual dress codes... a sign of the times I guess.The video reminded me a triode-pentode valve with resistors and capacitors integrated into the glass envelope that I have around here somewhere. It was used (if I recall correctly) in an either an old IBM 557 Alphabetic Interpreting Machine or maybe an 082 card sorter as one bit memory.I would argue integrating the passives into the valve was the world's first integrated circuit, probably invented by IBM (it was an IBM brand valve), without any silicon except that in the glass.If find it, I'll post it to Dave Jones for his mailbag.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:36:28 am
content: Passives inside glass valve envelopes date back to the 1920shttp://electricstuff.co.uk/loewe.htmlLater, there were also all-glass memory and A-D convertershttp://electricstuff.co.uk/glassadc.html

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 11:04:35 am
content: Quote from: gemby on December 26, 2013, 01:34:13 pmI managed to save two of them from the trashbin, twoItron fg410e2 Vacuum fluorescent tubes, originally specced in 1978. I haven't been able to test if they work yet.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 11:36:46 am
content: Quote from: tusisma on December 27, 2013, 10:05:44 amTHANKS!!!!!! What a find. I was right... it was an IBM card. They never used industry standard numbers on their chips until they produced the PC came along.As you can see, it was very well documented. The technical description is excellent.IBM documented their mainframes really well. They never used standard logic symbols. Everything was a block and the libraries of technical manuals were huge.

author: BjornR1989
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: JoannaK on December 27, 2013, 02:31:45 amSeeing Dave hold a German/Dutch/Belgian/French plug has gotten my attention ("I recognize that plug!").Cheap Chinese power adapters come with cheap cables. I pulled one apart by trying to unplug it. The plastic breaks and the cable can't bend even 3 times before it falls apart.Oh, ofcourse these cables can't handle 10, nevermind 16 ampères.Youtube:Minderwertiges Kaltgerätekabel mal wirklich mit 10A belasten

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on December 27, 2013, 11:36:46 amIBM was the second largest publisher. The first was the US government.

author: seth13699
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on December 27, 2013, 11:36:46 amThis documentation is well known to exist but if you look closely there is no schematic to be found. At all.Even worse is on the software side. Not even a single page of source code is known (even early revisions).We only know it was coded in FORTRAN by "The Germans" (the Von Braun team) and some tidbits can be foundhere and there. Like some of the flight equations & performance described in "Description and Performance of the Saturn Launch Vehicle's Navigation, Guidance, and Control System" by Walter Haeussermann:http://klabs.org/history/reports/tn_d-5869_1970023342.pdfNow compare this with what we know about the AGC:H/W:http://klabs.org/richcontent/Misc_Content/AGC_And_History/PartsAnalysis/PartsAnalysis.htmhttp://klabs.org/history/ech/agc_schematics/index.htmS/W:http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/links.html#Software_manuals_and_listingsand the difference is apparent.It is believed that IBM suppressed all info about the LVDC because all later ICBM digital flight control systemsare based on it...

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 01:11:58 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 27, 2013, 10:36:28 amThe oldest machines I ever worked on was made by the Computing Tabulating Recording Company, which later became IBM. The machine was built prior to 1924 and still operating commercially here in Melbourne in the 1980's sorting punch cards. This predecessor to the 082 Card Sorter had Queen Anne type legs on it. It was a memorable experience to debug such an ancient piece of equipment. It is possible the machine has one of those integrated valves in it - I cannot recall.The punch card was only 30 or so years old when the machine was built, created for the 1890 US census by a genius named Herman Hollerith, the great grandfather of modern data processing.

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 04:38:49 pm
content: Quote from: TheEPROM9 on December 26, 2013, 09:42:13 amI think I've just added that to my list of things to learn how to do...

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 07:25:27 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 26, 2013, 01:31:53 pmI dont even care abut this aspect of the product. Dev board seems to be targeting simple usage scenarios, no stacking/clustering. I just wanted some documentation, but all I can find on their website is marketing material camouflaged as documentation pdfs. You know its bad when website dedicated to the dev board doesnt even mention clock speed.

author: Jonas_H
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 08:18:49 pm
content: I'm surprised you even had a 0.5 mm² cable lying around, where did it came from? I couldn't find anything for the mains rated that low here, even the charger to the electric razor that's supposed to draw 55 mA and have a 2.5 A plug has a (permanently attached) 0.75 mm² cable. And we have 230 V here too, so it's not like we need thicker wiring.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 09:22:43 pm
content: The cable was composed of 20 strands of 80µm diameter. Effective conductor area: 0.1mm². Copper-coated stainless steel. 1m of that wire had a resistance of 1.6Ohm, but it should have been 180mOhm (pure copper).Mind how the strands don't want to stay bent. Pretty atypical for copper.What's interesting is that the wire came as part of a pretty decent laptop power supply. That survived shorting the output for long time, output voltage stays stable independent of load, almost no ripple. All fine.The cable would be tolerable if it only were used with that laptop brick (50W-ish), but having a plug that fits into a lot of higher-power devices... not so good.

author: open loop
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:18:55 pm
content: Looking at that power cable and Madworm's interesting post made me think of an incident that happened 1 mile away from me...One of our local pubs (the Griffin at Reading in Caversham) was badly fire damaged first thing Christmas eve, half the bar was missing and cables hanging from the ceiling and very serious smoke damage where you cant see into the windows, in short a big mess. The killer was that the pub had a full lunch booking and Christmas lunch and evening bookings. Not to mention the refurbishment that was done less than 2 years ago...Fortunately they managed to move everyone to anther premises for Christmas eve (don't know about Christmas day). The cost is going to be at least 100 thousand pounds considering refit and loss of earnings.Apparently the cause was one of the bar tills but you have to wonder what actually was faulty... I don't think they will let me investigate. It now down to the loss adjuster of the insurance company to decide the next step.http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/fire-destroys-half-bar-caversham-6444201

author: maeffju
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:39:34 pm
content: Very cool, to encounter some familiar devices, far away in the hands of Dave the crazy aussi bloke...By chance I happen to be an electronic engineering student, working at Dräger in Lübeck.I'm working there as a "dualer-student" (something like dual course of studies in english) which means that im studying normally, and then, in each term break I get to work in one of Drägers different departments.From the end of January on I'm going to spend some weeks in the "portable gas detection instruments" department, where I for sure will encounter the followup-modell of your Multiwarn - which by the way in deed is outdated and yes!, quite expensive when it comes to repair or replacement parts.There is a widespread range of instruments for mobile (and as well stationary) gas detection of which many can easily cost 1000+ bucks.Maybe you're interested to know, that those instruments are assembled in Lübeck, and the electrochemical gas-detection sensors you will encounter during the teardown (and you already saw under that NOT rotating cover) are developed and produced by Dräger in Lübeck as well.Looking forward to the teardown and Daves opinion on our high quality gas detection instruments!

author: johnh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 03:51:44 am
content: A neighbor was throwing out some old 80's hi-fi gear for one of the bi-yearly hard-collections.I can't resist picking stuff up to see if there is anything useful to recycle, started as a teenagerI noticed the display had some pcb material as base. So I desoldered one and pulled it apart.It's a Sanyo SL-160N 7 segment display. You can see the individual leds are bonded to the pcb.

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 10:15:57 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on December 27, 2013, 04:43:59 amThanks. Being non native, one tend to miss plenty of words like this... In Finnish, those are called 'kokolattiamatto' .. (whole floor carpet).QuoteShag bathroom.. Sounds downright dirty.. and at a more than one way.

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 11:42:26 pm
content: I tried firing up the VFD's I could find, I managed to get the filament glowing, but no response on any of the segments :-/ I guess I'll have to do some more digging when I get my vacation.Quote from: JoannaK on December 28, 2013, 10:15:57 pmThose were common here in Norway too. I even saw shag toilet seat covers when I was a kid (both the lid and the ring) O0But I guess they are more important in a country where people walk barefoot

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 04:54:22 am
content: Dave,You infer in the video you hate religion and yet you went to an organ recital in a church in Lubeck?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 05:35:20 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on December 29, 2013, 04:54:22 amI noticed that too. I remember trying to visualize him walking in to the church.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 05:38:06 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on December 29, 2013, 05:35:20 amProof that there is no god: Dave Jones walked into a church and was not struck by lightning

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 06:05:57 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on December 29, 2013, 05:38:06 amNah, you're thinking Zeus.The New Testament God is a nice guy. Now the Old Testament God, his preferred way of getting rid of people is drowning.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 06:11:37 am
content: He likes good music on a good sound source.@JoannaK, I washed a piece of industrial carpet during a service break at work, and after 20 minutes it was still dumping dark brown coffee coloured water. Changed to hot water and softened the carpet adhesive, scraped it off the steel base and currently the new pieces are bonding on to the steel. Old ones went into the bin wet and somewhat smelly. Did find out that the old ones were light grey on the one corner that came somewhat clean.

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 10:28:05 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on December 29, 2013, 04:54:22 amYou can enjoy religious music without believing or even agreeing with the religion. I have a large amount of religious music simply because it's pleasant to listen to.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 10:31:00 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on December 29, 2013, 05:35:20 amI actually like churches. I like the architecture and the extravagance, I have been into many of the worlds best, including the vatican on good friday!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 10:34:08 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on December 29, 2013, 04:54:22 amI was invited by my hosts who took me on a trip to Lubek from Hamburg.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mary's_Church,_L%C3%BCbeckBut if I was in Lubek on my own I would have had a look myself anyway.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 10:35:51 am
content: Quote from: hikariuk on December 29, 2013, 10:28:05 amIt wasn't really religious music, as it was just the organ. I have no idea what was being played, but if the choir broke out and started singing hymns I'd be reaching for the barf bag.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 10:37:35 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 29, 2013, 06:11:37 amActually the acoustics were pretty awful! But that kinda added to the "wamth" of the sounds. Gotta love deliberate distortion.

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 10:40:26 am
content: Those organs are brilliant works of engineering as well, if you ever find yourself in a church with some spare time ask them if you can have a look insideI believe I'm about as religious as Dave appears to be, but I still love looking at and photographing old churches because they are so intricately built. They also represent the majority of old buildings around here, everything else has been replaced..

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 01:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: Kjetil on December 29, 2013, 10:40:26 amSt Peter's Basilica was largely funded by ripping poor and ignorant people off by selling indulgences. In stark contrast check out the life of Giovanni di Pietro di Bernardone for the real deal. He saw far more wonder in nature's beauty than that created by man. Mind you, he didn't get a chance to program an Atmel or PIC microcontroller, either.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 01:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on December 29, 2013, 01:18:39 pmisint that the general basis of all religion??

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 02:20:07 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 29, 2013, 10:31:00 amSuperior queue stamina my friend. Superior.I couldn't handle the queue on anormalday when I was there recently.

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 03:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: Kjetil on December 28, 2013, 11:42:26 pmI have seen some toilet set covers that are like techicolor wild animals. Thankfully those are a lot easier to replace than walltowall shag.Well.. We do have these amazing things like insulation and triple windows.. So indoos tend to keep comfy 20C or so even winter time..

author: Frantone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 05:05:38 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 29, 2013, 10:31:00 amI agree - I too love the architecture of churches. Even being an atheist I always find myself in a church at least once a year for any one of many reasons that have nothing to do with my own views.

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 09:38:23 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 29, 2013, 10:35:51 amThis is a major benefit of having most it in a language you can't understandI think Handel's Messiah is the only religious work I have English.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 12:23:58 am
content: Quote from: Frantone on December 29, 2013, 05:05:38 pmBy the original definition, the church is made of people, not buildings. It was derived from the koine Greek word ekklesia. Most secular people equate the church to buildings and maybe the clergy. The term has been distorted over the centuries.I suspect most electronics engineers and technicians are atheists - certainly in Australia. Only a small few I know profess to believe in God. On the US dollar is printed "In God We Trust". Those who have pocketed most of it seem to ignore the fine print. So what people believe and what they say can be two different things.Hey, I like your audio guitar stuff. Very creative (or evolved) enclosures! Cool!

author: dentaku
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 12:59:46 am
content: I love the look of those bubble displays. I have a few big ones but here's a 3 digit one I hooked up yesterday after watching this video.I actually never tested it before. It's easy to connect to breadboard because it's just like a 12 pin DIP unlike the big ones that have some sort of edge/card connector.I also have an Archer ISE DISPLAY TUBE RS#276-065 still in the original package $1.79 marked down to 99cents.I guess I'll have to look up the datasheet for it and see if it lights up.

author: doc
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 05:41:20 am
content: Quote from: warp_foo on December 27, 2013, 05:20:05 amI think they are great but before you send if off to Mike, there are two places in Australia first:The Australian Space Design Competition is in Brisbane on the 18th - 19th of January at St Leo 's College at the University of Queensland and I think you would inspire more than a few teenagers with it there. The team that wins that round will go to the world competition in the the US later in 2014.In Victoria Aus we have The Victorian Space Science Education Centrewww.vssec.vic.edu.auat Strathmore (Suburb of Melbourne) which I think would love it have it it for a week or so.( In the interest of full disclosure my son Jack attends Strathmore Secondary College where VSSEC is located, and his team is in the finals in Brisbane.)

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 03:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on December 27, 2013, 04:43:59 amGoing off topic, but whatever :pI'm generally irritated by how things that are cheaper, faster, and easier for contractors to put together housing get pushed as better and become 'standard' and expected.It hasnt been for the past 5-10 years that asphalt shingles have started to come with 40-50 year warranties, getting them on par with steel roofs, and older roofing methods. Obviously slate, copper and whatnot are quite costly due to lots of manual labor and expensive materials, but there is concrete roofing tile, which is way more durable, etc...Textured ceilings over proper drywall work, fiberglass shower inserts (with seams which the caulk rots out and still leaks) instead of actually tiling it correctly, vinyl siding instead of brick, fiberglass bat insulation over spray foam (this one is debatable, but you can still get R-20 in a 2x4 wall instead of R-13). Various water pipe technologies (QWEST/polybutlene which actually ended up with a class action lawsuit and getting houses re-plumbed because it was garbage) Aluminum branch wiring in the 70'sAnd the 'good stuff' would be cheaper if it were more common and it wasnt a specialty to get it used/installed