EEVblog #1032 - John Kenny Keysight Interview - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 11:36:30 pm
content: Interview with John Kenny from KeysightPart 1 of several more to come, released daily, stay tuned!Patrons and forum supports will get all the videos early (still need to render them)John Kenny is presently the Technology and Efficiency Manager for the Electronic Instruments and Systems Group. After graduating from Lehigh University in 1978, he started in Hewlett Packard, working in our Modular Power System team, designing modular supplies, and later moved to our Lab and Industrial Power group, where he was involved in Analog, Digital and Firmware design for the next 20 years, involved in the rollout of our many programmable power products. In 2005, he moved into a new role as the Technology Manager for the System Products Group, which covered all of the GP products, including Power Products, DMMs, Function Generators, Counters and Data Acquisition products. He was directly involved in the development of the breadth of the GP products that you see in the Keysigt catalog today, with more on their way. Recently, as part of the reorganization in 2015 as part of the new Keysight, he became responsible for Technology and Efficiency management for most of our non-RF based products, as part of the EISG Center of Excellence, which includes products developed in Japan, Penang, Singapore, Loveland and Budd Lake.Part 2:Part 3:

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 11:38:33 pm
content: That was a great interview! Looking forward to the rest.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 11:46:51 pm
content: Can't wait for more

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:06:47 am
content: Nice interview. However I will always miss the HP of the 70s and 80s and spending hours drooling over their massive yearly catalogs.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:22:27 am
content: Great interview, can't wait for the restHope we get more guests like this aswell.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:51:08 am
content: Another 2 hours worth mostly edited now, just have the tidy up and render. Bit hard with it being Daddy Day Care Tuesday though.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 02:05:45 am
content: Really enjoyed this interview.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:15:00 am
content: Excellent interview.This sort of thing does a lot for the perception of a company IMHOLooking forward to the rest.

author: haudio
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:41:51 am
content: Hey Dave,Great interview!I recently retired from the HP Storage division in 2015 and had worked with both John and Ron at the HP New Jersey Division back in the late 70's (I'm sure he remembers the 62605 power supplies). I'm glad to hear that Keysight is working on bringing back the "HP Way" which is Bill and Dave's legacy. As John said, the real heart of HP lies in Keysite's test and measurement products. Even though they did not get the HP name, they did get the better part of the split with the HP product line.In my opinion, John was being "polite" with describing Cara Carleton Fiorina's tenure as CEO - she was a "talking head" and did not know her arse from a tea kettle when it came to technolgy. She was hired by the then HP board of directors to complete the HP splitup and complete the HP/Compacq merger - another one of the many fiacios she directed during her tenure. Bill and Dave wanted to remain strong in test and measurement products, but after Bill passed on in Jan of 2001 it was less than a year (Nov 2001) that BOD pushed the HP/Compaq merger through. Today, many years later, the latest mutations of HP (HP Enterprize and HP Inc.) are stumbling along and trying to live off off the HP name.Rock on Keysight!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 06:53:50 am
content: Description for next 24min video:This one covers the early days of PCB tools, Rubylith, gerber copying, simulation, EEsoft RF design and layout tool, Sabre by Synopsis, Matlab, Simulink, Windows CE development and discontinuation in 2021, what Microsoft does well, software bloat, Windows CE support in microcontrollers, Linux, RTOS's, product boot time, the problems with open source software, the Linksys router, repair, product schematics, clones, design patents, the importance of trade secrets, Chinese company prosecution, creating the Rigol monster, buying companies, IOT web security and zombie multimeters!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 06:55:38 am
content: Quote from: haudio on October 17, 2017, 03:41:51 amI got that impressionQuoteSounds like the current Youtube CEO

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 06:56:17 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on October 17, 2017, 03:15:00 amIndeed, you can't help by be impressed with what Keysight are doing.

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:14:19 am
content: 25000pcs of 34401A out there !I have two of them, Agilent branded.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:03:22 pm
content: This was a very valuable interview.So much good info, I will watch it again, soon.I think he said 25000 of the 34401A per year, is that correct?

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:13:47 pm
content: So for a DC-DC converter with a digital control loop, I assume the output voltage feedback must be converted to digital using an ADC? What sort of sampling rate would the ADC have?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:15:07 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 17, 2017, 01:03:22 pmThat is what I have heard. Maybe they have sold around 250k pieces over the entire lifespan?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 07:18:09 pm
content: Such a good interview, very surprised he designed that front panel.Quote from: rs20 on October 17, 2017, 01:13:47 pmYes, in the 100s of ksps.This for example has a 12-bit ADC at 267 ksps, various PWMs, and a ~14-bit DAC:http://www.ti.com/product/UCD3138/descriptionI believe he mentioned 16-bit ADC in the video, when talking about the electric car supplies, so presumably higher power would want more resolution.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 17, 2017, 01:03:22 pmCorrect. Twice actually in the interview.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 10:53:57 pm
content: Great interview!But I don't accept why manufacturers no longer provide schematics - especially to products aimed at Electronic Engineers! - even in the 1970's the mysterious parts of test equipment where documented as "refer to manufacturer" for precision resistor and zener sets that have been characterised in-house for example, and that is fair and trade secrets, etc.In this day and age this mystery is in those FPGA's, CPLD's and microcontrollers that have their fuses locked protecting the code, and of course ASIC's. If the manufacturer does not want to give out a flash file then replacing any of them you are so out of luck.Also, the schematics of anything truly valuable get leaked or reverse engineered anyway - because everything is made in China - so why not have an official paid for proper service manual WITH schematics?You can argue that modern equipment is so much more reliable and technicians no longer have the skills to deal with surface mount vs through hole, but that's a load of bollocks when the reality is manufacturers are making things to be chucked in land-fill and pollute the world rather than letting customers or third party service engineers fix something as simple as any discrete component. In the case of white goods they are deliberately engineering in failure, much like the Phoebus cartel of the early 1900's.

author: vinicius.jlantunes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 11:19:56 pm
content: Just wanted to say as well what a great interview it was! Thanks Dave!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 11:30:45 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on October 17, 2017, 10:53:57 pmYou can do a lot with just a block diagram which usually is in the service manual. The lack of schematics doesn't seem to hold back third party repair services anyway. Over the past decades I have repaired tons of stuff without schematics; it just took a bit longer.

author: STMartin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 01:23:15 am
content: I know the answer is probably, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"; but just out of morbid curiosity, how much does an Xpedition or Dx Designer license cost?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 03:42:59 am
content: I think we all knew WinCE was a terrible idea, shame they still used it.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 04:20:11 am
content: It was probably tempting because all the boring network stuff was taken care of.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 04:33:45 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on October 17, 2017, 10:53:57 pmThat's not what Keysight are doing though.

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 05:43:32 am
content: Curious to know when this was recorded as the Santa Rosa HQ office has been affected by the fires over there, though I am not sure to what extent. Any info?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 06:25:01 am
content: Quote from: tec5c on October 18, 2017, 05:43:32 amThe buildings are fine, but power was still cut as of Monday when John mentioned it.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 06:49:26 am
content: That was a very informative interview I really enjoyed it. Liked the stuff on digital control loops it makes a lot of sense. The galvo and motor control designers have been doing this sort of stuff for decades and that is just two examples that I can think of. There comes a point where non linear control loops are just not cost effective using analogue techniques. Good to see Keysight are now focused on instrumentation

author: stmdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 07:03:33 am
content: Excellent interview.Also, I think I'll learn to accept the Keysight name now that I know _why_ they stopped being Agilent. It seems like it was an excellent decision for the T&M part of Agilent leading to more money being spend on building better products.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 07:28:47 am
content: I agree with the clarification over the naming. It makes a lot more sense and clears the air around what we can expect from the company.I do feel the greatest empathy with all involved for not being able to claim back the Hewlett Packard name. T&M is where the name entered the world - and it's where it should have stayed. Unfortunately, that horse has bolted.Keysight is a name that now has a clearer definition - and it's one that I can grow to like even more.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 12:25:00 pm
content: Great interview. A good balance between technical and the business side of things.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 01:50:47 pm
content: Dave this one is so huge, thanks for having this IdeaPlease continue and add more questions to the table, and also please bring some other so cool guys from other big companies too.There are these few questions for you. if they use Xpedition, please introduce more topics on the PCB EDA packages, why they choose Xpedition and not for example altium, since we heard more and more companies like TI that have switched to AltiumThey are making ADS, do they use it internally? I did not heard anything spacial regarding that oneplease ask him more about ADS too.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 02:15:27 pm
content: Some remarks on using linux for commercial products. Anything above the kernel layer can be proprietary and closed source. There's no requirement by the GPL to provide the source for those applications. But there's a grey area around drivers. A driver could be considered some kind of kernel derived work which implicates the publication of the source code. Several companies work around that by creating a wrapper module and a proprietary binary blob which is used by the wrapper. The source code for the wrapper is provided as required by the GPL, but the binary blob stays closed source.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 02:50:49 pm
content: Quote from: madires on October 18, 2017, 02:15:27 pmThat is right. You can build whatever closed source application on top of Linux you like. Take Xilinx for example: they are not obligated to release the sources for their FPGA software which runs on Linux. What Linksys did (wrong) was use GPL libraries in their software and then you need to disclose your sourcecode.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 03:45:51 pm
content: Quote from: madires on October 18, 2017, 02:15:27 pmA method which is questionable, but nobody has the money to go after nVidia and the like.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 04:08:55 pm
content: Great interview so far - cant wait for the rest.Great to hear he is still contributing to actual products - too many 'higher ups' just spout marketing BS and dont understand the under the hood at all.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 04:22:23 pm
content: Agilent has at least a few products that used Linux - several spectrum analyzer models.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 10:31:55 pm
content: Just watched (and downloaded) part 3What a great source of amazing facts.Thanks so much again, for doing this interview.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:05:22 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 18, 2017, 10:31:55 pmThis is a fantastic interview - the wholenear two and a half hoursare available on the little knownThe Amp Houryoutube channel...as voice only as you would expect a podcast to be.But not on the actualhttps://theamphour.com/website as of yet.(hmm... I'm beginning to think someone fucked up the releases here?)

author: dkryder
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:15:38 pm
content: i missed it if this has already been mentioned, Dave, but how did this interview come about?. did you call him and float the idea or did someone from johns side contact you and suggest the idea? so, maybe you can talk a bit on how this interview gelled. but anyway, great job on putting the interview up. thank you.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:18:24 pm
content: Both the Jack Ganssle interview and this one have been tremendously enjoyable. It's great to hear knowledgeable and experienced people speak so freely, yet measured.I have to commend Dave's grown interviewing skills too. He's guiding people to subjects and then letting them speak. Very nice.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:50:02 pm
content: How did I miss the Jack Ganssle interview??Where was that?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:10:35 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on October 18, 2017, 11:50:02 pmIt was on EEVblog #818. Enjoy!

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 01:02:33 am
content: Thanks.Missed that one somehow.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 02:33:04 am
content: Such a great interview series. Thanks, Dave and John, for spending an amazing amount of time to make this. It's invaluable getting to hear about so much of the company history, philosophies, and how that all works into the present and future of Keysight. It really makes a difference in how one perceives a brand.Dave, I hope you'll be able to have more opportunities to produce enlightening interviews like this with T&M companies.

author: stmdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 07:13:03 am
content: From part #3 it seems like Keysight is reading the forum, so let me just put this here in the off chance they might read it:Keysight, THIS is how you do marketing for T&M equipment. This interview has put your company in a better light than a mountain of glossy brochures and a thousand visits by salesreps could ever have done.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 08:49:25 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on October 18, 2017, 11:05:22 pmDamn Libsyn auto-publish

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 08:54:10 am
content: Quote from: dkryder on October 18, 2017, 11:15:38 pmSimon who is my Oz (and "official") contact at Keysight approached me to see if I was interested. John is an EEVblog viewer and I think he wanted to drop by and meet me and the interview was probably a way to justify the side junket from SingaporeIMO money well spent by Keysight, the PR from this is priceless.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 08:57:09 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 18, 2017, 11:18:24 pmI'm aware I get too excited and interrupt, and I'm getting better at that. The problem has always been that I think of something to ask in the moment and fear that I'll forget to ask, but now I try and store it for later. It's not easy doing that without taking notes like a professional interviewer often would.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 09:21:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 19, 2017, 08:57:09 amWe won't mind if you want to get a little bit professional on us! Just so long as you don't turn up on screen with a tie on.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 09:23:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 19, 2017, 08:57:09 amIMO, you are a professional interviewer ! This interview was well done and you asked all the good questions that I had in mind. I was so positively surprised how openly John was answering some of your questions and more.This interview is a tremendously good source of information for us here at the forum but likely it is even more valuable for Keysight. Actually I think it is priceless for Keysight, advertisement they could not buy for any amount of money.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 10:31:56 am
content: 9:10 in the thrid video "So I actually managed the two guys working on [the replacement for the 3458a] the first time we tried to do a replacement on it". That phrasing (the first time) makes me believe either they have tried a second time later on and given up again, or are (and I think this is the more likely scenario) indeed working on a replacement right now.? I would imagine that if they weren't, he would have said "I managed the guys when we looked at making a replacement" or somethign along those lines.In addition, these are some excellent interviews. They are really top quality material. Dave, you are (well were) doing an excellent job of letting him speak and allowing him to finish his sentences, something that you seemed to have issues with in your interviews back in the earlier days of the EEVBlog. In addition, John Kenny is clearly a great teacher/speaker, with his calm and well through-out phrasing and talking. I would love to see more of this on the EEVBlog.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 10:34:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 18, 2017, 06:25:01 amThat is good to hear! I heard in the local research centers that there was rumors that their fab was in great danger. If they lost that, I don't want to know the impact for their high-end RF market would have been.

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 11:20:01 am
content: I really enjoyed this interview, well done Dave & Keysight

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 07:51:58 pm
content: Keysight products generally costs a bit more money than I'm prepared to spend. Now I have more respect for why that is than I what previously had. These videos made such an impression on me that I now own some stock in the Keysight company, You'd need something equivalent of a 3458 to pick my stake in last digit but never the less :-)Well done indeed Dave & John, very interesting and enjoyable to watch and listen to!

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 07:56:19 pm
content: I think this visit by John Kenny, that fab interview, is so good, that it is more worth to Keysight than their whole add budget! It gives a trust to the products , the people behind and the company that will bring a lot of new customers. I wil also get the atention from hobbyist and users that normaly goes for cheaper products. Well done.. a act for other instrument companies to follow! Great show Dave!

author: Astrodev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 08:26:27 pm
content: It is good to hear what the thinking behind the strategies of T&M manufacturers like HP/Agilent/Keysight is, as in recent years there has been a lot of convergence in the approach to instruments and what they will offer in terms of functionality and price and I am sure a large numbers of buyers of mid range equipment have found that with all the offers coming from the major manufacturers (Keysight included) that the market has become a bit muddled.One thing that still holds true is that if you get hold of an older piece of equipment labelled HP, you know it is generally going to be maintainable and a solid bit of kit, I am not sure the same will be said of Keysight branded models in 10 or 20 years time as I get the impression that these days they are more focused on selling the latest gizmo rather than supporting the customer on something they made 5 or 10 years ago, which almost make you think they are designing in obsolescence through support rather that the old HP approach of providing the best kit they could that would last well into the future, in fact this is what HP got it's name for, so maybe the loss of the HP identity is in fact an indicator of the way the company is going, I truly hope it is not the future and that given time the Keysight name will come to mean the same as the HP logo did.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 09:01:32 pm
content: I own various bits of HP/Agilent/Keysight gear with a wide range of ages and each generation has it's pros and cons. Old gear may contain parts which are no longer available where newer gear has complex things like displays which may go bad. Overall my impression is that each generation can be repaired because what fails most is power (related) electronics, wear sensitive parts like relays and parts which get hot.

author: vindoline
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 03:37:00 am
content: Dave, as others have said, great interview! For me, these have been the most enjoyably videos that I've watched in a while. Thank you.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 05:21:32 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on October 20, 2017, 03:51:34 amDo you mean this one? It's 5 parts, last one tomorrow.

author: bjcuizon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 07:51:27 am
content: Excellent Interview!At part four Dave mentioned something about internal project code names and John mentioned marsupial.I think Dave read it when he read through the serial dump while hacking the 1000X series scope.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 08:45:47 am
content: I have to ask: there appears to be a stack of multimeters in the back, one of which looks a lot like the mentioned copycat model, and the others may have similarities as well. Was that a complete accident?

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 08:48:47 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2017, 05:21:32 amNooo.... <chant> We want more! We want more!Have really enjoyed this series and it's just made me more determined to upgrade from Rigol to Keysight in a few years.Many thanks to you, John Kenny and Mr Invisible

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 08:53:48 am
content: You can see them all here if you're a supporter or have 1k+ posts.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/latest-pre-release-video/Great series Dave and very well put together.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 09:45:20 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 20, 2017, 08:45:47 amNope, very deliberate copy:https://youtu.be/6nqSFYVKnP4?t=21m30s

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 09:57:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2017, 09:45:20 amSorry, I wasn't very clear. I mean whether the placement of what looks to be the copycat device in the background during the interview was an accident, or a deliberate move, as the subject was bound to come up. Considering how the GW121 has been casually popping up all over the place, I can imagine this is a way of having a little fun with the viewer.If you'd rather keep it a mystery, that's fine too

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 10:20:25 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 20, 2017, 09:57:56 amNope, nothing placed on purpose.

author: sibeen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 11:31:44 am
content: Dave, really a great series of interviews. I am certainly intrigued about what he meant by "watch this space" re the function generator functions of their scopes. I have a 3000T series and I must admit I think the arb generator function is absolute crap.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 01:28:46 pm
content: Quote from: TheUnnamedNewbie on October 19, 2017, 10:31:56 amI caught that as well, it confirms Dr Frank's assertion on the forum that they tried at least once and failed. I believe Dr Frank has inside contacts there. John mentioned ruefully the one original designer is still working, but working for the competition. That must be Wayne Goeke/ Fluke I think.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 01:33:58 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on October 20, 2017, 01:28:46 pmKeithley it seems:https://patents.justia.com/inventor/wayne-c-goeke?page=1

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 01:38:07 pm
content: Dave, thanks for this very informative interview and cutting it up into seperate parts

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 01:54:28 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on October 20, 2017, 01:28:46 pmWell, I had personal phone contacts to Keysight people, when discussing with them these bugs on the 34465/470A ACAL DCV function.Scott Stever was in the phone call, being introduced as the project manager for the 34465/470 DMMs.Wayne Goeke is obviously responsible for the DMMs at Keithley, as the patent implies.Both were the main engineers for the 3458As A/D, as can be seen in the hpj 4/1989, page 98.This interview is really great and very interesting, regarding international development processes.Would like to see more of videos like this.Frank

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 02:27:17 pm
content: What I was surprised to hear is that HP developed the LTZ1000. I thought it was Bob Dobkin, Carl Nelson and Jim Williams (based on his LT1088) at Linear.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 03:21:00 pm
content: What I also found very interesting from John to hear about the reasons, why detailed Schematics are no longer included in service manuals:1. Other companies copied them (Very obvious)2. Keysight would need to offer service / explanations for schematicsIt would never have crossed my mind to call Keysight and have them explain a certain part of a schematic to me. But it seems that was the case and took valuable time away from them.I just finished part 5.Again, thank you Dave and John for such wonderful interview!

author: unclebob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 04:40:20 pm
content: Oh Keysight, please stick with the knobs and physical controls. In fact, the final thing that made Keysight win our last "what scope do we want buy" shootout was the separate knobs for each channel (and the MegaZoom instant response). We recently got a new function gen with the unified front panel you discussed and it's not the most loved instrument because the new front panel has eaten away the hard output on/off button (and the power supply makes whining noises when it's powered off) so please make wise choices about the front panels.

author: Bipolar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 07:30:13 pm
content: QuoteI own and generally like HP/Agilent/Keysight products so I bought one of those function gens for the company I work for. Great piece of equipment. But the whining PSU and lack of output on/off buttons where practically the only reasons I went with Siglent SDG 2000X Series for my home lab instead of the Keysight one I originally planned on buying. Didn't absolutely need the isolated outputs and the level of accuracy at home.Oh and I have to say - excellent series of interviews! Definitely would like to see more like these.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2017, 12:15:16 am
content: Quote from: unclebob on October 20, 2017, 04:40:20 pm1000% agree with the knobs....KEYSIGHT - PLEASE KEEP THE KNOBS!Why? (if it's not obvious) - Quick and intuitive changes of setting. If there is an operational parameter that I will change frequently, then I NEED to be able to do that quickly and easily. A two-step process is double the work it needs to be - and if you bury such a setting behind 3 or 4 button pushes, then it's that much more to do to actually change that parameter. Put a knob in front of me that only does that one thing - and I will be happy - because no matter how everything else is configured, if I want to changethatparameter, I can just go straight to the knob.A function tree structure 10 wide and 10 deep may give you 100 discrete options - but you may have to traverse through up to 20 steps to find the one you're after ...and that's assuming you know where to go to get to it. (The learning curve for that little exercise can be frustrating - but it is the sort of thing that will lock people into your product line ... if the interface is consistent, that is.)For the proponents of the "clean look" front panel - don't go overboard. Sure, you can build a scope with a screen on one side and a MS "Knob" on the other and you can get it to do everything - but I won't be using it.KEEP THE KNOBS

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2017, 03:35:18 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 20, 2017, 03:21:00 pmYeah, I don't understand why you can't have them and refuse support on them if it came to that. But yeah, maybe the shear number of people causes X number of people who will expect support.

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 05:16:03 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 21, 2017, 03:35:18 amProbably something related to "If you give a mouse a cookie, then he'll ask you for a glass of milk." Granted I would think the majority of people don't expect any further help but, as you hypothesized, it only takes a few out of many to become a burden.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 09:01:37 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on October 21, 2017, 12:15:16 amThat ain't gonna happen because the trend will be towards scopes with more than 4 channels.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 09:32:13 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 20, 2017, 03:21:00 pmWhich makes no sense at all. If you're going to copy someone's design, reverse-engineering the schematic amounts to about 0.01% of the work. Given how rapidly components go obsolete, how frequently proprietary components are used, and the ever-increasing dependence on programmable parts, it's hardly worth the bother.QuoteThat's just weird. If someone were to actually call for additional information on a schematic, the answer would be a poilte, "Sorry, that information isn't available." No sane person would ever hold that against them, and the lack of schematics won't stop the others from complaining anyway.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 10:00:49 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on October 22, 2017, 09:32:13 pmHave you ever worked in retail or the services industries? You wouldn't believe what people think they have a right to.That being said, it's obvious Keysight doesn't do it to save costs. It's cheaper not to do it. John has made it very clear on multiple occasions that they are a company and that the bottom line matters. This decision seems in line with that approach.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 11:08:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 22, 2017, 09:01:37 pmWhile that may be - I believe the majority of users aren't going to be using more than 4 channels for the majority of the time. Certainly, there are going to be those use cases where this does happen on a regular basis, but for the most part, that is not going to be the mainstream, IMHO.If Keysight want to go to an 8 channel scope, for example, then I would suggest the following....Keep all the knobs for 4 channels - and then have a single button for a bank "shift" function. Controls for channels 1-4 now operate channels 5-8. If you want to get fancy, then add to that the ability to assign each set of knobs to a specific channel under a "preset" arrangement. Just a thought.A remote interface can have all 8 channels on display ... software solutions are easier to re-spin than hardware.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2017, 01:36:27 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 22, 2017, 10:00:49 pmYoumightsay that.I wouldn't ask anything of Keysight and other T&M vendors that I wouldn't -- and don't -- do myself.(To be fair, people do occasionally ask questions about those schematics. It's good to chat with customers, potential future customers, and even competitors whenever you can spare the time. Sometimes you get exposed totheirgood ideas that way.)QuoteThe Keysight folks do great work, and I wouldn't be inclined to buy lesser equipment from someone else just because they provide better service information. But don't try to tell me that printing a document (that already exists in-house) to .PDF and sticking it on a Web server somewhere is a major cost sink. Publishing schematics does carry certain liabilities that aren't always obvious -- such as the fact that you're basically waving a red flag at patent trolls -- but the usual reasons don't hold any water IMHO.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2017, 01:49:47 am
content: That's not retail or the services industries by a long shotI do think you underestimate the investment it costs to put out proper documentation. It's not as simple as printing a pdf to file and slapping it on a server. I agree with John Kenny that that's probably something that's consistently underestimated by people.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2017, 02:10:16 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 23, 2017, 01:49:47 amAthletic department on line 2. Coach says put those goalposts right back where you found them, or there'll be trouble.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2017, 02:22:08 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on October 23, 2017, 02:10:16 amThe coach just told me the other team isn't playing in the same ballpark.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2017, 02:45:53 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 23, 2017, 02:22:08 amHow do you define "retail?" I define it as, "Exchanging money for goods in a market that's open to consumers." Do you have a particular revenue threshold in mind?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2017, 03:05:44 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on October 23, 2017, 02:45:53 amNot a particular revenue threshold, but a particular audience. You'll experience much different customers if you work at the television department at Best Buy, rather than selling comparatively niche T&M gear. People feel entitled to the strangest things in ways you wouldn't believe.Obviously, Keysight isn't into selling televisions, but test gear, but that's where the difference in scale comes into play. The signal to noise ratio is a lot better than when you're dealing with regular retail and the general public, but a relatively small amount of noise across a huge customer base is still a lot of noise to contend with. The fact that they're now dealing with individual customers, rather than institutions, isn't helping the matter much.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 04:30:48 pm
content: After watching part 3 or 4, he mentioned a competitors power supply, I'll assume this was Rigol.The UI copying from Keysight isn't as blatant as identical menus, still thought it was funny though.http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2804535-pn-E36312A/80w-triple-output-power-supply-6v-5a-2x-25v-1a?cc=CA&lc=eng

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 04:56:09 pm
content: I think the Rigol came before the Keysight.

author: sarel.wagner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 05:12:20 pm
content: Since John is responsible to make things work cross units within Keysight, he needs to address BenchvueCrazzzyyyy how disconnected the parts are. HMI (UI/Ux) is so important, that is what we see as the machine, its the part we interact with.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 09:02:28 pm
content: Yep, I have a meeting tomorrow with a couple of folks in the BenchVue group to discuss the onboarding experience. One of several issues is, as you pointed out sarel, the need for a holistic UX as that affects the ongoing use of the system, in addition to onboarding.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 09:12:48 pm
content: The part lifespan is interesting, I somewhat have understood this is a bit of a problem for other parts of industry focused electronics also, like some control and manufacturing equipment bits and pieces providers, where the product is in "20 to 40 years lifespan expectation" category, while the rest of the world is trying to shift to "2 years rotation".

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 09:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 24, 2017, 04:56:09 pmYes, the humor is that keysight "stole" Rigols UI design. After he went on about design patents (although I'm not sure if they apply to software UI?).Of course there is a huge grey area between straight stealing a design and being inspired by it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 09:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 24, 2017, 09:17:46 pmNo design exists in a vacuum. Everything is based upon what came before. Obviously, some companies take that a bit too far, but in most cases, design patents are fairly obvious improvements.Of course, Keysight is probably copied a bit more than others, but John admitted openly to looking at and using competitor products and it would be stupid not to do so.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 09:32:22 pm
content: Heh. Ie. those control keys below the screen. Now look at your keyboard there is F1 to F12 originally served just exact purpose as the key on both those UIs.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 12:27:53 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 24, 2017, 09:26:19 pmThere is a lot of prior art in these sorts of UIs, neither example presented is particularly innovative or moving far from existing cases. Also they could have been developed in parallel without knowledge of the other and both settled on a logical and obvious UI design for a power supply with a graphic LCD.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 10:50:28 am
content: Just watched the videos. Such an insightful and intelligent speaker I must say, a pity that these kind of people are scarce in top level management. Thank you John!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 12:40:10 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on October 25, 2017, 10:50:28 amI think John would make a top notch Keysight CTO, just say'n...

author: rfbroadband
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 06:20:20 pm
content: I have to admit this interview increased the confidence in Keysight going forward quite a bit. I have been using/buying HP/Agilent/Keysight equipment for many years and as almost every engineer we appreciated the top notch quality Hewlett Packard was known for. At that time one could 'almost' purchase HP equipment blindly. Then things changed, quality/reliability issues, the Agilent and Keysight transitions, focus on share holder value vs R&D and top notch products. It would be nice to see Keysight move towards being the type of company that Hewlett and Packard was known for.

author: Astrodev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 01:37:10 pm
content: As I mentioned in an earlier post the major problem with BenchVue at the moment is the U turn on licensing which has had the impact of pushing users away from it and indirectly away form Keysight particularly the basic bench instruments, as it is now more cost effective to use lower cost instruments from other manufacturers to offset the addition cost of using third party software that supports a larger manufacturer base.At the present BenchVue was a good idea but because of the new licensing model it has mean't we have had to drop it and also move away from Keysight as the preferred choice unless there are compelling advantages from the instruments on offer.I still think they were onto a winner as the BenchVue software did provide a solution to the working interface that non of the other manufacturers had addressed, up to the point they shot themselves in the foot by making it all licenced, particularly as we had to update the version on all our Win 10 PC's after a problem with the IO libraries due to a Windows update which then resulted in a total inability to use BenchVue any more.Good one Keysight!

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 01:03:32 am
content: Astrodev, it'd be good to put your feedback into theBenchVue threadwhere folks from the BenchVue team are.I've frozen my installation at version 3.7 because of the licensing change. It does what I need without the additional expense. If I need more capability, I'll just write my own code since that will enable me not only to add any behavior I want, but also control all of my instruments, regardless of brand.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 04:10:34 am
content: Finally got around to watching all 5 episodes, and was very fascinating.I think Rigol or Siglent was the only other manufacturer to sit down and talk candidly.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 10:04:26 am
content: sad news, maybe should be in a new thread...https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/tech-history/silicon-revolution/loss-of-hewlettpackard-archive-a-wakeup-call-for-computer-historians

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:31:21 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on October 31, 2017, 10:04:26 amThere seem to be at least three threads on the subject already