Professional Grade Reflow Ovens - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 05:21:40 pm
content: I have a bit of money to spend on a professional reflow oven. This is not for production but for low volume prototyping. The problem is that I have no idea where to even begin researching. What brands? What models? What key features can I expect on a 2000 USD budget? Things of this nature.If anyone can help me with this via a discussion here it would be much appreciated!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 05:36:09 pm
content: 2000USD? Define "professional"For about 2000 your best bets are the ones from ChinaIf you do not need a big one, the T-962 from aliexpress is very good value at 269$ (Once again, if this is just prototyping on your own, a hacked IR oven is always better and cheaper)At the same time a larger one would be the Aoyue HHL3000

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 06:04:29 pm
content: Yes, I found that model just by googling. A lot of places show ovens but do not have any prices listed directly. You have to request a quote.I realize hacking an oven is cheaper but I work for a large corporation in a professional working environment with a lot of red tape. I probably won't be the only person to use this oven and our labs are subjected to audits. I need it to be a standard piece of gear.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 03:09:59 am
content: Try Novastar, might be a bit more than 2k (but not much more!).Depends on how basic you want to go.http://www.ddmnovastar.com/reflow-ovens

author: bga mods
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 03:28:26 am
content: ive got the T-962C in US stock, this is the model:http://www.diy-buy.com/buy-infrared-ic-heater-t962c-reflow-oven-intelligent-bga-rework-station-led-heater-2500w-400x600mm_p9132.htmllet me know if its any good for you, i will match their price from that link but mine will have no import duty and will be coming direct from the US.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 07:43:00 am
content: Steer clear of T962 - you'd be better off with a toaster oven with a simple power controller.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 07:55:12 am
content: Interesting, can you elaborate on the issues with the T962?

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 01:43:00 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on June 15, 2012, 07:55:12 amin T962/962A there is no hot air curculation, no pre-heater on bottom side, so it does haveearly IR ovens issues like "burned devices in the middle and not soldered elsewhere".When you add 1-2 IR lamps on bottom side and/or hot air circulation you can definitely useit even for ROHS BGA soldering (i'm using such tuned-up T962 for prototypes, max 484 balls).Generally spoken all IR ovens are bit tricky, therefore don't expect wonder from a cheap chinese product.I've tested the Elector oven, it was the same piece of crap (sorry Elector - expensive piece of crap)as well the T962A (bigger is not always better - too large "cold" zones).Btw, many ppl opening window or using big industiral fan outside to blow away the toxic air (!!!),this is a however really bad idea. I do have special room for that, with no random cold air circulation,therefore all the random issues are reduced to zero.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 01:46:54 pm
content: Consistency is the biggest problem, especially between first and subsequent uses in a batch.Which is why I've always used the eyeball method, for which a cheap toaster with a good window & a light shining into it is as good as a controlled cheapo oven.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 02:23:46 pm
content: What if I placed the oven in a fume hood? Would this cause any cold/hot spotting problems? The air flow would be steady for the most part.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 02:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on June 15, 2012, 03:09:59 amThanks for the suggestion. I actually just requested a quote right before I read this.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 04:29:04 pm
content: Quote from: Time on June 15, 2012, 02:23:46 pmoh well, you will have to try this out.In principle everything with controled or no air circulation will be good. More important is to spend a buck forsmall fan for inside to allow the hot air to circulate, when you think about BGAs then preheater on bottom sideis good idea (small, thin BGA with let say up to 256 balls are not issue, hot air will be enough).

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 05:07:53 pm
content: I don't think I would pay for an oven without circulation...seems like a standard thing to me. i.e. :http://www.ddmnovastar.com/reflow-ovens

author: plex
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 05:39:26 pm
content: The price is a little higher than you want but check this out:http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/new-smd-reflow-equipmentMade in europe, well designed and well supported. PC software to define and control reflow temp curves. Separate bottom and top heaters control(essential for 2 sided smd assembly) and several other features.I was looking at the cheap chinese reflow ovens too but after seeing a teardown of one I opted for something better made.Regards

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2012, 02:08:58 pm
content: Excellent, thank you.

author: Devian
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2012, 08:08:56 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 15, 2012, 01:46:54 pmI thought IR would give more even heat distribution, and hot air will cause more shift or solder open, never thought about how about hot air and IR heating together.

author: Devian
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2012, 08:13:00 am
content: Quote from: Time on June 15, 2012, 05:07:53 pmThank you for your excellent sharing .

author: ESTechnical
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 08:09:07 am
content: ESTechnical make controller upgrades for the T962 and T962A reflow ovens that transform these cheap reflow ovens... The controller upgrades completely replace the original controller.The ESTechnical reflow oven controller offers:PID control of the temperatureRamp up, soak, peak and cooling stages in the reflow profile are easily adjustedParametric setup of reflow profilesSave and recall of up to 30 different profile settingsAdjustable fan speed during reflow (provides the much needed air movement in the oven)Easy to use menuYou can find out more about the controllers here:http://www.estechnical.co.uk/reflow-controllers- the complete upgrade packages offer the most features and are the same as the parts we fit to the T962A.We also sell ready to use upgraded T962A reflow ovens for those who want to buy a ready to run reflow oven rather than fitting an upgrade - seehttp://www.estechnical.co.uk/reflow-ovensPlease feel free to contact us if you have any questions, we're happy to help with low cost reflow soldering setups.Ed

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 03:32:30 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on June 15, 2012, 07:55:12 amI have one for 6 months or so and love it. It's the T962 with the glass window in the front. Got it new from ebay US seller. Did so far 25 or so boards and it worked very well, easy to operate and you see the progress on a graphical display. I am using leadfull paste and using profile #2 (it has 8 profiles, the last few are programable but I didn't have to). It's for hobby use at home, I am doing one board at a time and it takes about 7 minutes per board. Ian from DP has a youtube video about a similar one. I am using his advise and place the board on two 'spacer' pcbs to raise it about the metal plate. The only issue I noticed are the buttons which are not well debounced but not a big deal for me.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 05:21:38 pm
content: Maybe a cheap toaster and this cheap PLC?http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6168202718.htmlThis PLC works pretty well.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 05:25:27 pm
content: ALTEC PC410 PC APP.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 05:29:00 pm
content: EN. Manual (see the attached file).

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 05:39:35 pm
content: Also you will need a thermocouple and a SSR.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2014, 08:39:36 pm
content: What about ATTEN ovens?http://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/ovens.html

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 12:10:53 am
content: Quote from: mcinque on August 12, 2014, 08:39:36 pmDo they run on 110V? With hot air soldering stations for example, it's difficult to find 110V Atten unit.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 07:11:52 pm
content: Quote from: mcinque on August 12, 2014, 08:39:36 pmNo window = instant fail

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 07:24:36 pm
content: hmm... Mike, why you get instant fail without a window? Mybe because you can't see what's happening inside and so modify time/temp according to custom settings?

author: Sebastian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 08:12:07 pm
content: We have a vapor phase reflow oven at school. They are ideal for prototyping because they heat up quickly but I have no idea what company it is from and how much it costs.Maybe you can find a used one on ebay.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 08:22:31 pm
content: Quote from: Sebastian on August 13, 2014, 08:12:07 pmI wish...About £15000 seems to be the entry level. It's not the heating up quickly that's the reason they're great (in fact, manufacturers go to great lengths to slow down the heating up), it's that it's impossible to overheat components - the temperature you get to is the boiling point of the fluid, and no higher. You also exclude oxygen from the soldering process, so you get nice clean joints, even with lead free solder.I've been buying the fluid, and playing with modified deep fat fryers. Results have been excellent, so I need to build a less manual, and slightly bigger, unit.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 02:33:50 pm
content: Quote from: Precipice on August 13, 2014, 08:22:31 pmYou can upload images?The advantages of the vapor phase soldering:- Any danger of overheating.- 10x faster than hot air and 8x faster than IR heating (independent of component density, size, shape, or surface area).- No temperature differential.- Defect-free results on densely-packed, high-component-mix assemblies containing complex BGAs, CSPs, and other advanced devices.- Soldering takes place at only 5°C to 10°C over the melting point of the solder paste.- Eliminate component stress and delamination of components and substrates.- Different PCB assemblies can often be processed in the same batch without having to adjust the temperature profile .- No need for a nitrogen atmosphere, as the vapor itself and the entire atmosphere in the chamber are chemically inert (prevents oxidation).- Soldering fluids are chemically and thermally stable, non-toxic, free of CFCs, and environmentally-safe.- Lead-free and tin/lead solders can easily be processed in the same system by simply changing the vapor phase fluid.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 03:14:12 pm
content: Now there is an idea for a kickstarter ! A hobby vapor phase oven...For the uninitiated :Vapor phase soldering is THE rolls royce of processes.-you can't fuck it up-success guaranteed-perfect solder joints each and every time-no risk of crisping boards or parts.-clean-environmentally friendlyIt has one drawback. The liquid needed might as well be mouse milk ... At almost 1000$ a gallon...Fortunately, if the oven is well built the liquid is reused over and over with very minimal wasting.The trick is the liquid. A fluorinert material, essentially liquid teflon, is being heated in a deep tub, like a deep fryer.The liquid boils at a specific temperature and creates a cloud of vapor. Galden (which is one brand name of this liquid , made by dupont i believe ) is availble in several boiling points. One of em is 220 degree c. Another is 270 degree c. It goes in steps of 5 degrees..Galden is completely inert. You can drink the stuff, it goes straight through you. The molecule is inert.Even in vapor form it is inert.Now, how does the magic work ?You lower a pcb, pri ted with solder paste and populated with parts i to the cloud of vapor. Vaporised galden is denser than air. It doesn't rise. It forms a blanket. Kinda like throwing dry ice in water.The hot galden vapor will transfer its heat to the cold pcb , thus heating it up. In exchange the galden re liquified, and drips off the pcb back in the tub where it is reheated.This process goes on until the pcb and all components sit at exactly the same temperature of that cloud (which , if you picked the galden 220, is exactly 220 degrees c ). Since solder melts at 183 (snpb) the entire board reflows at thr same temperature.No gradients, no warpage, no hotspots , nothing. Perfect reflow !You can visually see when this point has been reached. As long as the board is colder than the vapor cloud, beads of liquid galden will form and drip off. Once at temperature this beading stops and the board goes dry.A nice side effectis that the galden also dissolves any residual flux ...So the boards come out squeaky clean as well !Simply raise the board out of the cloud, wait a few seconds to let it cool so the solder can solidify and bob and annie are you aunt and uncle.The real ovens use a lid and have a condenser ring installed. So no vapor can escape. There is a cold zone about 20 centimeter above the vapor cloud.Galden can be purified to remove the flux contaminants. The only waste is in escaping vapor.Another side effect is that solder joints are essentially done under an oxygen free atmosphere. So the flux can do its work and the wetting happens under a blanket of galden vapor as opposed to air which oxidises the solder and the pads, reducing wettability that the flux tried to create.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 03:25:15 pm
content: Vapor phase soldering has been around for a very long time , like the 50's but always had the problem that the chemical used was extremely toxic. Not only that, the blanket disllaces oxygen and , if done in a badly ventilated room could asphyxiate people. The liquid has no smell or color, so you don't see it or notice it You simply go unconscious. Pretty much like co poisoning...That changed 15 to 20 years ago when that galden stuff became readily available. The toxic problem went away. The potential blanketing problem is still there. Vapor phase machines need to run in well ventialetd rooms just in case tha vapor escapes.If you use a deep tub , only put in a few cups of liquid and use a thermo co troller that is set for a few d egrees over the vapor point there iss virtually no risk.Add a condenser coil at the topAll that is needed is essentially a deep fryer and a condenser coil. You can feed that one from a refrigerator motor ... In the condenser coil you can also run galden liquid, just pick one like at 100 degrees c. The vapor will not pass the cold zone (well, cold .. 100 degree zone, you don't want to thermally shock the boards cooling down ) and the board cools gradually.Why is this not used in the industry ?It is a batch process. Not a flow through process.. Board goes in, board comes out , then next board goes in. Not like a huge reflow oven that is a chain or belt driven machine that cranks out boards.So the throughput is low.And that galden stuff is bloody expensive...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 03:35:55 pm
content: http://www.coultersmithing.com/OldStuff/CLAB/coffee_can_reflow.htmThis guy does it in a coffee can. I like the deep fryer approach better.http://www.wenesco.com/vapor.htm?gclid=CIeT0-KJk8ACFcI7MgodhkkApAhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/CENTECH-Vapor-Phase-VP-1000-HIGH-TEMPERATURE-SOLDERING-SYSTEM-/351138971819?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51c18380abI did a quick look on ebay for the liquid, but none of em available there are suitable. The boiling point is too low. 157 degree was the highest. You need fc-70. That boils at 215 degree c which is perfect .

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 03:58:01 pm
content: Mu current thought is :Deep fat fryer (preferably, like the cheap Aldi ones I got, with a heating element outside the pan, so nowhere for fluid to hide or overheat.)Basket arrangement to hold the PCB at a useful heightPyramidal aluminium hat, quite tall. This has:riveted-on L-section extrusion, running vertically, to act as a heatsink. As many sections as will fit.A vigorous PC fan at the top, blowing air down all 4 sides of the pyramid, and over all these heatsink strakes.A USB camera, an illumination LED and a (say) 16x4 PIR widget (The Melexis one goes hot enough) all at the top. It shouldn't get hot up there.The hat needs to drip the fluid back into the fryer, and avoid it escaping, since it's expensive, and gets absolutely everywhere! (Lesson learned from simply using the fryer unhacked).Making it all rectangular should make fabrication easy, but round would also do - I'm wondering whether I should get one of thosehttp://search.ebay.co.uk/171229554056- easy enough to wrap cooling coils round the top section, and heating it with an induction hob should avoid messing around with strapping resistors together.What I'd really like is some heatproof material that floats on galden vapour, so I could easily measure (and control) the vapour level. Hints would be very welcome!Another thought I have from time to time - vapour phase is all very spiffy, but for prototype purposes, where you don't need to do boards back to back very often - can you just dunk boards in a bucket of the stuff, and heat it up? Or do the components float off in a comedy manner?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:09:02 pm
content: It would wash away the solder paste. That stuff is thinner than water ....You dont really need a condensing hat. Fluorinert vapor is denser than air. It sinks... So it forms a blanket.Simply get a deep fryer with a digital temperature control. Set to a few degrees above fluorinert boiling point.I am tempted to experiment with this. Just need to find a nice deep (deep bucket) fryer.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Home-Double-Deep-Fryer-4-Qt-Electric-Stainless-Steel-Kitchen-1700w-3-Baskets-/380851065216?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item58ac7e1180Orhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Deep-Fryer-Stainless-Steel-Dual-Electric-Presto-Basket-Countertop-Commercial-4-/111435097772?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item19f20ca6ac

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:13:17 pm
content: Unfortunately, you do need a cooling hat (or a really, really deep container). Vapour just flopped everywhere, and there was a slick of the stuff over the kitchen... If I do it again, I'll take video.I was hoping the vapour would just sit in a blanket, but it seems not.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:17:51 pm
content: Question, how does lowering a pcb into vapor of 220 degrees C guarantee to follow the required reflow process like holding the temp at 160 degrees for 30+ seconds to wet the flux in the paste? Or do you also need special solderpaste for ths process?

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:22:14 pm
content: It doesn't - some VP ovens seem to have some convection preheating going on.I want to just modulate the power going into the bath, and watch the board temperature with the 16x4 PIR in the top of the hat. That should be closed loop enough to avoid any disasters.If you don't bake your part before assembly, dunking them in a bath of hot vapour strikes me as a good way to induce popcorning as the trapped water boils.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 14, 2014, 03:14:12 pmIt's a good idea.Probably many people already tried to build one. Sometimes it is faster to perform an intense search through the network.After a quick search I found this:http://www.arxterra.com/news-and-events/members/vapor-phase-soldering/Also, on this web many concepts relating to the reflow soldering are explained (and many other things).http://www.ami.ac.uk/courses/topics/0132_rs/

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: Carrington on August 14, 2014, 04:39:07 pmWhat the hell? They're pouring a watering can of water into their hot galden? I don't understand.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:04:30 pm
content: No idea! But maybe you are referring to this:QuoteMaybe they are doing some test, at the end water will evaporate.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:07:41 pm
content: Nope - they pour in the Galden, then, a few minutes later, they pour in a can of water.It seems they're trying to have a blanket of water vapour over the galden vapour, and a blanket of water over the galden. This seems, err, unconventional.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:20:24 pm
content: Ok, I get it, but don't know why they do that.They have a video where they show this?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:23:26 pm
content: How much of that Galden LS230 stuff do you need for a decent process?It is for sale in Germany for €41 per 100mlhttp://www.electronic-thingks.de/attachments/069_Electronic-Thingks-Pricelist-2014-03-13_en.pdf

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:29:25 pm
content: not a lot. probably 200 to 300 milliliter should work.looks like that stuff has come down a lot in price... then again the one i used was Galden HT210 used in the cooling system of an ion implanter.in the ovens they use HS or LS which seems to be a lot cheaper. 85$ a pound. so 160$ per kilo. Still a gallon sets you back a big swath of cash ... and that stuff is heavy ..it's still at 1550$ per 5kg ( which is about a gallon for that material )http://www.oritech.com.au/search.aspx

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: Precipice on August 14, 2014, 05:07:41 pmLooks like it was a test to see if it was the Galden vapour escaping or the water vapour. Why they put in water in the first place is beyond me. 'Reading the text they didn't have their temperature measurements in place, they did not know the temperature of the fluid.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 05:52:57 pm
content: In the long term, it is cheaper than the nitrogen. A refill of 7 liter of nitrogen costs 35 Euros.Although if the gas is contained throughout the entire process, it would be cheaper.But this is not the case for this type of rework stations:http://www.bokar.com/index,29,FOCUS-Series-Hot-Air-Nitrogen-Systems.htmlBut I suppose that is the best option to rework a single component...

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 06:28:02 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 13, 2014, 07:11:52 pmReturning to conventional ovens, I also prefer a large window, like this:http://www.manncorp.com/smt/prod-325/reflow-ovens-bench-top-850.html

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2014, 11:38:01 am
content: Quote from: Precipice on August 13, 2014, 08:22:31 pmWhere from, and how much?When I looked a while ago I couldn't find any sources in small quantitiesThe key to doing this small-scale is getting a setup that needs the minimum amount of fluid (regardless of PCB size!) and doesn't lose much.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2014, 12:20:04 pm
content: On ebay, been paying up to £300 for a 5Kg bottle, rather less for smaller bottles.You need so little, though, that the cost of the fluid shouldn't be a showstopper (although you would miss the feeling of 'how heavy???' when you pick up a big pot of it).

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2014, 12:31:19 pm
content: Small quantities:http://www.electronic-thingks.de/de/elektronikprodukte/loetzubehoer/galden-ls-230.htmlAnd another project:http://www.ibrtses.com/projects/vapourphasesoldering.htmlOvens, fryers, pans...

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2014, 02:02:30 pm
content: Other more:Reflow-Loeten-SelbstgemachtAutor (L. Schreyer)http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/reflow-loeten-selbstgemacht#1480209In the same post there are other interesting images of this oven (search downwards):

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 09:33:31 am
content: How do you do boards with double sided placement? Wont' the components fall of the side you've done, when you 're-dunk' it? Or did i miss something.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 09:57:27 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 18, 2015, 09:33:31 amThe surface tension of the solder will usually hold parts in place during the second reflow pass.Parts with a high ratio of weight to pad area may need glue dots, though the first option is to do these on the second pass if possible

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 10:07:27 am
content: Bottom side components are done first, with an added screen of a thermosetting glue that holds them down. During reflow it cures while the solder is molten and holds the components in place. then you solder paste the top side, do the SMD placement and reflow again. While the bottom solder does melt again the glue holds the components in place.You can see this as red dots under resistors and capacitors on boards with double sided loads. They are often also used to make a batch number as dots in a silkscreen box, or to indicate a version on a board that will have a few variants. Cheap and a no extra cost way to have it on a board in a very non removable way.

author: stryker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 03:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 18, 2015, 10:07:27 amIs that glue something that is cheap/easy to source in hobbiest volumes?

author: rudydevolder
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 06:56:54 pm
content: Seems good and simple, well designed with cooling, sensors etc.: They have been working on this machine for 2 years now, they also have a mini and Jumbo model.Now at introduction price (only 599 Euro's ! ), I saw the thing working on a demonstration day last Saturday, really awesome: also the price for the Galden is OK. Only 130 Euro's for 500 ml is a bargain!http://www.imdes.de/condens_uk/condens_uk_pdf/mini-condens_it_price_list_uk_exhibition_21_06_2015.pdfI ordered mine already via a distributor in Holland:http://www.eleshop.nl/vapour-phase-soldeeroven-mini-condens-it.html

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: rudydevolder on October 13, 2015, 06:56:54 pmWelcome to the forum.Thanks for the links.There is a thread here on just this subject:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/vapour-phase-soldering/

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:24:01 pm
content: Note: Sorry, I just saw the date of the OP! Anyways, leaving my post below for reference...Quote from: lowimpedance on June 15, 2012, 03:09:59 amI actually bought a Novastar for my prototyping work. I looked hard and long before pulling the trigger. Most ovens appear to be IR-based, which means that they have very little thermal mass, no convection heating and no circulation fan. This causes trouble with uneven heating, burnt connectors and all the other very known issues. All Chinese reflow ovens appear to be IR based.Specifically, I have the below GF-C2-HT hotplate-based reflow oven. It took me a while to figure out how to achieve the proper reflow temperature curve since the heaters heat the hot plate and, subsequently, the thing takes a good 30 minutes to heat up! The trick is to fully heat the oven to some 300 degrees C and then put in the board with stand-offs such that it doesn't sit directly on the hot plate. With the circulation fans going, the board will be evenly heated on both sides, the correct temperature curve will be achieved and boards will be reflowed in about 5-6 minutes.Note that pre-heating the oven to 300 deg C allows the target temperature to be reached in about 5 minutes. If only heated to 250 degs C, the ramp-up takes too long and the whole reflow temperature curve will be drawn out in time.http://www.ddmnovastar.com/reflow-ovens/low-volume/gf-c2-ht-reflow-ovensNow, the whole hot-plate concept seems a bit primitive compared to some more modern reflow ovens. However, I have temperature profiled the above method and it is good enough for prototype board assembly. The temperature curve is not exactly like the ramped reflow curve, more like a "capacitor charging curve". I looked at the time spent in each zone (pre-heat, soak, reflow) and my oven is fairly accurate. I think the GF-C2-HT is over $4K but I found mine for $2K new on Ebay so overall a good compromise. In addition, I now have a large hot-plate, which can be useful.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:43:15 pm
content: I spent about $3k on a used JEM-310 batch oven. It has been great for prototypes and pilot runs. Clam shell design with top window, convection, 2 probes, 5 zone controller with hundreds of memory slots, Pretty good heat distribution, lead-free capable, very consistent. Being able to look down at the PCB is a huge plus!Fiddling with toaster ovens, hot plates, and the various IR based Chinese options would have sent me to an early grave. After spending hours getting a new PCB populated, I want it to re-flow perfectly every time with out fail. I have now done thousands of cycles and it gives me the expected result every time.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 12:39:28 am
content: Quote from: rudydevolder on October 13, 2015, 06:56:54 pmAny update on this by the way? There is too little information out there for my taste, no user manual to look at either.Looks like a beefed up ultrasonic bath with see-through lid. Air cooled...?

author: rudydevolder
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 12:59:38 am
content: I received my oven just before new year. Pity I didn't received it earlier because I am out of the country for 6 months now. So I couldn't test.Yes it's air cooled, and it heats up quickly to the set vapour temperature of the Galden wich is 210 degrees Celsius and cools down quickly after a few minutes if the sensor sensed the high temperature of the raising vapour.There's a display for the timer and current temperature. There's also a small manual with it, but I can't upload because I am out until June. But you could ask at the guys from Eleshop.Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G850F met Tapatalk

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 02:17:36 am
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on June 15, 2012, 03:09:59 amI have one of these. Picked up for $2K on Ebay:http://www.ddmnovastar.com/reflow-ovens/low-volume/gf-c2-ht-reflow-ovensNot the highest quality, skimpy manual etc but at long as you are able to achieve the correct reflow temperature curve with circulated air then it will do the job. The GF-C2-HT must be heated to some 300 degrees (C), the board put into the oven and the circulation started. The circulated air will then heat up the board fairly correctly per the lead-free temperature curve.Edit: See my post from "October 14, 2015, 06:24:01 AM".

author: vikramslm@rocketmail.com
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 06:08:20 pm
content: We have a T962C and we use it for decent volume production. The output quality is pretty good with only minor issues which are touched up manually (Mostly misaligned parts and tombstones due to slightly uneven heating)I'm thinking of adding a fan to produce convection for more even heating. But where to find a fan that can work at 220 Degrees Celsius??Any ideas would be helpful.Also any ideas on the placement of the fan?

author: Prime
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 07:37:37 pm
content: We had an LPKF protoflow S at my old job. Worked reasonably well. Never bothered to use the thermo-couples and software that came with it, but it was possible to create a reflow profile. Door was windowed and motorised which stopped components being knocked off as you closed the door.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 08:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: vikramslm@rocketmail.com on July 19, 2017, 06:08:20 pmHow about a fan designed for a domestic fan oven? Ought to be cheap and widely available.

author: MAelektronik
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 04:46:22 pm
content: I use a T962A. Had issues with debaunce buttons on the front. Worst was that it did'nt have same temperature on first PCB reflow and later reflows. I upgraded firmware. And modified with 1-wire temperature sensor for cold junction compensation. Now the oven finaly works much better.Link:https://github.com/UnifiedEngineering/T-962-improvements/wiki