techshop (hackerspace) is no more (website goes to pdf; they are chapter-7, now) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:30:03 am
content: https://blog.adafruit.com/2017/11/15/techshop-is-closed-files-bankruptcy-techshop-techshop-makerbusiness/fyi

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 04:02:12 pm
content: no talk about this huge bit of news?10 hackerspaces in the US just closed yesterday, no notice, all of a sudden (to the users, at least) and customers who have prepaid (like me, sigh) are left high and dry.they ran for 10 years and had the largest collection of heavy machinery any hacker would love to use.and they're gone. all gone, now.no talk about this on a blog that is ALL ABOUT diy and the maker movement?

author: jaromir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 04:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:02:12 pmPerhaps some of us still don't know what impact - if any - it's going to have, that's why we are quiet

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 04:18:09 pm
content: I don't want to appear cynical here, so I did not comment earlier.I think they were too expensive for the value provided. Or they just failed to advertise and position themselves properly.The only real value I potentially saw in them is access to machining equipment. I don't need to pay for access to workbenches and hot glue guns. For the price of the yearly admission, you can buy a nice 3D printer and lifetime supply of filament. But CNC machines are not something you can get access to easily.But I just don't need to machine things monthly, and overall, it is just cheaper to pay someone to do that for me.And I lived within a walking distance from one. This equation gets even worse if you have to drive.PS: Again, I may have some wrong ideas about the place, but I feel like they did not do enough to advertise their services and make themselves approachable.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 04:19:53 pm
content: OK. Here is talk. There weren't any near me that I know of, so no use to me and no impact on me. I am sure the impact is huge to those like you who used their services, but I don't know how many on this forum are directly involved.The biggest interest for me is when the sale of parts of the carcass occurs. Maybe I can add to my own personal hackerspace. Though it would be a long drive.My only other observation would be that there have been several comments on this forum about what a good deal these hackerspaces are, with amazing access to great equipment. Much like your comment. And anytime something seems to be too good to be true, it usually is.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pm
content: the cost is about $125/month for membership. one of the most popular items is the set of laser cutters, one of them is 120w and has a larger bed, the others are 18x24" beds at 60w max.epilogue grade cutters are $25k and upwards. zero chance of me owning, much less being able to maintain one, at home.over $100 a month is expensive, BUT, being able to drive in with materials (often I can just buy bulk plexiglass or wood sheets, there) and drive out that same day with a finished chassis that has no drill-dings or manual mess-ups, that's worth even more than the entry cost for membership, to me.lots of learning there, lots of community sharing (I always had some kind of chat with a 'maker' while waiting on the machine to finish, its a great bunch of people who go there, usually, very friendly and always willing to talk about what they are doing and share ideas).how much do you pay for education and experience? kids will be in debt for decades for college. why is it ok to pay for 'book knowledge' at 10x and 100x the cost compared to hands-on learning and skill-building you get from a hackerspace the size of (what used to be) techshop?I realize its 'only' 10 stores or shops in the US and they tend to be near bigger cities; but you know, when I was considering doing a relocation for a job, one of the things I was asking myself is, 'what hackerspaces are nearby?'. I can own a 3d printer at home, but it will be a long time before I can get a quality cnc, bandsaw, fullsize drillpress, waterjet, welders, CAR LIFT, sandblaster, vacuum former, etc etc at home.to get access to all that for a c-note a month, that's not expensive at all. some people I know think nothing of dropping that much on dinner-out, in a single nite

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 04:41:44 pm
content: A) Most of us is not from the US.B) A lot of us is not a maker but a professional.C) I didn't even hear the name techshop before. I guess most of didn't.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:13:43 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pmAgain, I personally don't need to do that much laser cutting to justify the price. And this may change if I had access to the laser cutter, and start thinking in terms of designing things specifically for that. But right now, I just pick a $15 enclosure and design my project around that. Or chose materials that I can reasonably handle in a home shop.Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pmWell, I paid 0 and got a stipend at the same time (is not socialism great?). But I see your point.Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pmBook knowledge is organized and packaged into a coherent program. You messing with things can be educational, but in the end it is just it - you messing with things.I feel like they could have offered some service where they run the machines, and that would have been of some value to me. But then again, there are professional shops that provided those services. And I don't need to learn how to operate a laser cutter. Not that it is a bad skill, just not something I'm interested in doing, especially when already working on a project.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 07:04:40 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pmI think you have the key to the bankruptcy here. There had to be roughly 20 members paying for a year just to pay the acquisition cost of one of the cutters you mention. Without covering maintenance, consumables, building overhead, insurance and so on down the line. While drill presses and other like items are cheap, I am sure there were other high dollar machines there. With lots of maintenance if operated by amateurs. It would take hundreds of members to get the revenue required, but hundreds of members would saturate the facility and make people not want to pay.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 07:56:58 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:36:26 pmSimple: because you pay 125$ a month for a service.While for college you pay 1000$+ per month for a life opportunity, give yourself the ability to work hard on your own future, and for some outgrow the (somewhat) poor/shitty environment they grew up in. These acquired skills are not assets you can lose as an individual. That debt is paid off in due time, that is if you had invested in a job area that can pay it self off (and not be 1 of the billion managers that already exist in companies to create overhead).Or.. you can pay 125$ a month for the service of CNC'ing some parts for a few projects, hanging out with similar minded people. Sure that's nice recreational activity, but it's not as impactful as you compared.Experience can be acquired on own terms. Do you really need high-end equipment to start going? I get that a CNC machine is nicer.. but there are always nicer tools. Be honest; how many students did you saw at these maker spaces? Was it an affordable maker space or just for people that had disposable income? 125$ is really steep, even if it gives access to nice tools. You would have to make use of it every week to pay off, otherwise (like almost anybody else) it's better to pay per occasion.Perhaps the most ironic thing of all is that after the economic crisis a place like this goes bust.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 04:51:30 pm
content: hack a day now covers it (took them a while to notice, I guess)https://hackaday.com/2017/11/17/goodbye-techshop/

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 10:58:37 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:02:12 pmYup, just heard about this 2 days ago, on the radio. Then, in the newspaper. I live in St. Louis, we had one of the newest branches. I was at some meetings in Dearborn, MI, at one of the other branches. I have also been to several other maker spaces. Tech Shop was more formal and organized than the independents, but I thought the others were somewhat better. Tx/Rx Labs in Houston was totally amazing. It was HUGE, probably 4 X the size of a Tech Shop, and had a big emphasis on electronics as well as machining, wood shop, ceramics, bikes, sewing and crafts. But, the people make it or break it, and the spirit at Tx/Rx was just incredible.The paper noted that all the machines at Tech Shop St. Louis were owned by Cortex, their space lessor and a tech incubator, so apparently when Tech Shop leaves, the facility will not lose anything. They are trying to find somebody else to operate it.Since I have my own shop, a maker space would have to either be pretty cheap or totally fantastic for me to get involved. We did have a local one kind of start up, a guy bought a 50K sq. ft. warehouse, and a bunch of guys filled it with various machines. He built an incredible foundry setup. But, then he died quite young of cancer. The group still get together every couple years. Some guys have mills and lathes, some have foundries, some have other stuff.Jon

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 11:41:04 pm
content: It's a bit weird people consider $125 expensive. Just renting a small space is easily more expensive, and that's without any equipment or experienced help. Sure, this is shared, but you get access to something that's orders of magnitude more expensive if it were to be a private thing.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 11:46:01 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 17, 2017, 11:41:04 pmThe alternative is not to buy all that equipment, but figure out ways to not need it. There are also dedicated professional services that can make things for you. It will be more expensive if you are milling and laser cutting stuff all the time, but is a better deal if you need a few things here and there.Also, don't forget tooling and consumables - they were extra with TS, and they also add up to make the deal even worse.And apparently enough people decided that it is not worth it for them, to make the whole thing unsustainable.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 11:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 17, 2017, 11:46:01 pmOutsourcing isn't always viable, you need to figure out what you need before you can tell someone else to make it.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2017, 04:15:31 am
content: for me, the chassis making process (using plexiglass) was an iterative process. first, I often measure slightly wrong, no matter how careful I am. when things have to fit tight and well, I always have to make a few adjustments from the 'paper model'.second, what may work and fit - may not look quite as good as I wanted, so I need to move things around, reburn some new plastic (or paper; my trick was to use manilla office folders to dry-fit ideas first, see how well the spacing and aesthetics work out, and only commit to plastic once I think I'm ready for a real model). I can tweak the layout, try new things, make alternate front panels. then bring them all home with me that nite.just CANNOT do that with mailorder remote work. you can't iterate, well. and its expensive.even just using the machines can be informational. I learned some tricks that might not translate well to a remote person doing the cutting for you.and finally, if I broke something and need to make a new panel for some emergency event or demo, having a shop that is local can make all the diff in the world.fwiw, this is what I usually make - this style of box - when I'm there. its a bit 'industrial' and funky looking, but I have the process down, I can do the painting myself and the cost is VERY low for the plastic and even the time is not very long to get this done.someone talked about just machining metal boxes, like the old LMB and BUD and whatever brand is current, these days. I grew up hand-working bakelite and plastic and metal boxes (radio shack style, etc) - and doing all the holes with hand drills, xtacto knives, reamers, files. I NEVER want to go back to those days again! ;( every box had dings or skips or 'drill walks' and had to be covered over or just looked like they were done by hand. and doing each one was so slow and time consuming. the laser cutter really was life-changing, in terms of my DIYs. note, I don't do this for a living, I don't make hundreds of boxes and I don't usually sell things, but I like things to look nice and if I'm trying to demo a concept, a clean looking build makes all the diff in the world.so, yes, I need that $30k laser cutter to get this kind of work done. without it, I'm back using stone knives and bearskins, and I really hate the thought of that.

author: jaromir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2017, 02:28:33 pm
content: Interesting reading related to topichttps://forum.diybookscanner.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3461#p20987

author: phase90
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 18, 2017, 10:31:27 pm
content: As someone who had purchased a lifetime membership, I am very bummed. In the end, I guess that ended up being a lot more expensive than month to month...

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2017, 08:08:02 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on November 16, 2017, 04:02:12 pmThe Tech Shop in St. Louis is going to be reopened by Jim McKelvey of Square fame. Our paper notes that all the equipment in this Tech Shop branch is owned by Cortex, their landlord, which is a tech incubator. I don't know if any of the other Tech Shops is set up like that. They are being urged to find a different space, I think Tech Shop took up too many Sq. Ft. in the incubator.Jon