Now I have a reason to hate Jaycar even more. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 09:46:14 am
content: There has been a massive decline in quality to the HSS drill bits supplied by Jaycar. I picked up my latest packet of ten 0.8mm bits last weekend and I noticed that they were a different type when I pulled the first one out of the pack, as they are quite a bit shorter than the type previously supplied. Not that that is much of an issue, but the horror story began when I started drilling. A fresh bit felt comparatively blunt straight out of the packet and in no time at all they were totally stuffed. I ended up using seven bits to drill a medium sized board that I could have previously drilled with just a single bit! Not only that but the newest bits were remarkably easy to break. I can't even remember ever breaking one of the previously supplied HSS bits.Adding to a growing list, I can now rule out Jaycar as source of HSS drill bits. - and the price of this junk is ridiculous - $1.795 per useless bit bought in a quantity of 10. Jaycar still call themselves the suppliers of "Hardcore" electronics. Bunch of wankers!

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 03:27:33 am
content: I hope you also sent this to Jaycar. I don't know about Jaycar, but some companies are willing to listen (at least with companies I deal with a lot).

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 03:32:19 am
content: Perhaps Jaycar has decided to source their drill bits from the same place many ebay sellers get theirs.The difference is that Jaycar wants $17.95 for 10x 0.8mm bits but the same things cost $1.00 including shipping from China via ebay (10 cents per bit!). That's a healthy markup, no?Yes, the chinese sourced bits are crap, but at least they're cheap.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 03:45:50 am
content: Quote from: cimmo on August 29, 2013, 03:32:19 amI bought some 0.7mm bits from China out of curiosity. They are not even worth using. They dance all over the board.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 03:50:02 am
content: If you have a half decent drill setup you can get 10 high quality new carbide circuit board drills for $22.00. If you don't break it one of them will outlast all ten of the HSS drills even if they were high quality. I know you are in Oz but a US example ishere

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:00:07 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on August 29, 2013, 03:50:02 amThanks for the link. I just ordered 10 bits.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:04:45 am
content: Cheaper yet from an ebay seller that will ship worldwide. Check out his store and make sure it says new. Kyocera are high quality drills. Linkheresorry Mike you are too fast.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:09:20 am
content: The carbide ones are very nice, I ordered mine off ebay 5 cost around 10 bucks (various china sellers superbitshop something was one). I have trashed a few but due to clumsiness. The ebay search iscarbide drill bits cnc

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:11:22 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on August 29, 2013, 04:04:45 amI'm sure it won't send me broke.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:22:50 am
content: Watch out for the listings that say "carbide drill" but end with tungsten steel (not tungsten carbide)

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:52:23 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on August 29, 2013, 04:22:50 amRobrenz, whats the different ?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 05:07:43 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on August 29, 2013, 04:52:23 amOne is tungsten carbide, one is a steel alloy with some tungsten in it.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 05:27:34 am
content: If you break a carbide bit then stop whatever you are doing and rectify the setup. These are very hard and brittle bits they aren't like your springy HSS bits.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 06:31:50 am
content: Quote from: Mike Warren on August 29, 2013, 03:45:50 amI've used (and sold) many micro drill bits sourced from china, with no problem, from 0.7mm to 1.4mm (mostly 0.8mm).Perhaps it is helpful that I etch then drill with a hand held motor, and so have an etched hole in the copper for the bits and more control, but I've not really thought "man this is unusable dancing all over the board", indeed they go through my pcbs (copper or not) like the proverbial knife through butter - as long as the motor is running fast enough.The ones I get come in orange labelled tubes, and I use them primarily hand held in a cheap brass collett attached to a 24v DC motor ripped out of a printer.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 09:53:44 am
content: Quote from: cimmo on August 29, 2013, 03:32:19 amSome time ago I bought a pack of 10 hacksaw blades from Bunnings for $2. I used the entire pack up on a single cut, but I still got the job done and as for the blades, I simply got what I payed for. If those junk drill bits were sold in a pack of 10 for one or two dollars, the only thing I'd have to complain about is the fact that Jaycar do not offer a premium brand substitute for a higher price. I can pay upwards of $50 on a pack of fancy hacksaw blades at Bunnings if I want. However, in the case of these rubbish drill bits Jaycar are now stocking the cheapest crap and charging the highest price. That is just a blatant ripoff, and they're arseholes.I'd also dissuade anyone from wasting money on their LED panel meters. I found them to be even worse quality than the drill bits and stopped trying to buy one that actually worked after wasting my employers money on two of them. I'll leave it at just that for now.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 10:25:46 am
content: The Tungsten Carbide drills are excellent, but you absolutely must use a drill press. They don't like any sideways pressure at all and will snap very very easily. But in a drill press, or drill stand for a dremel, they last for absolutely ages, especially when drilling through FR4 which blunts HSS quick as anything.Here's a link to the drills if you don't trust ebay:http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/Reground-tungsten-carbide-drill-bits-30639or here:http://www.megauk.com/carbide_drill_bits.phpDrill press for dremel here:http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/Dremel-drill-stand-123028and here:http://www.megauk.com/pcb_drilling_machines.php

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 10:29:27 am
content: Quote from: lewis on August 29, 2013, 10:25:46 amThese seem a bit expensive for second hand drill bits!

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 11:30:36 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on August 29, 2013, 03:50:02 amUsing a handheld drill, so those are out of the question. I haven't actively tried to acquire a decent drill press exclusively for PCB drilling yet, though I probably should have, but most I have seen on sale are pretty average and often massively overpriced (eg ~$700 for some dinky, cheap-looking toy that probably vibrates like crap from Kalex/Kinsten). I spent 4 years drilling PCB with carbide bits on a high rpm, miniature drill press at a previous place of work. That machine was piece of the furniture there from the '60s and I haven't yet seen anything new that compares in quality. It must have been in the order of 100kg, heavy one piece body and base/table casting. Sat as solid as a rock buzzing away at 30,000 rpm or so without any bothersome vibration. That's the kind of machine I'd love to find for a good price secondhand.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 12:48:41 pm
content: I'm using a Proxxon drill and drill press with Bungard drill bits (3.2mm shaft). A drill bit is about EUR 2.50 and they're excellent. Also got some milling bits (spear-type) which are nice. Most small sized drill bits without a thicker shaft are crap.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 01:33:25 pm
content: This one?http://www.kalexelectronics.com.au/proxxon-mini-bench-drill/----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Googling "vintage high speed drill press" and similar, I can't find anything like the one I used at the previous workplace. I can find a lot of "jewelers" drill presses but they are nothing like it. It was shaped like an oversize sewing machine with a flat wide base maybe 2 inches thick with a ~20 cm square work table.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 01:49:40 pm
content: Quote from: GK on August 29, 2013, 01:33:25 pmA Proxxon 28510 and 28606. The bench drill runs at 8500rpm which I consider a little bit to slow. The 28510 does up to 20000rpm and is less expensive including the drill stand. AFAIK, professional PCB drills run at 60-80000rpm.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 02:22:05 pm
content: Depends on the diameter. I believe there's an inverse relationship between optimal drill diameter and rotational speed, something like 20,000 rpm / d (in mm), depending on the material? I'm not a machinist, though.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 09:49:04 pm
content: That price was a bit high GK - try these guyshttp://www.mytoolstore.com.au/products/PROXXON-Bench-Drill-Machine-TBM220%2328128.html

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 12:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: notsob on August 29, 2013, 09:49:04 pmAU$ 354.11??? EUR160 over here. 28510 is EUR 30.00 and 28606 is EUR 46,45. PSU is a simple 12V transformer with a bridge rectifier (no filter cap!).

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 12:39:37 pm
content: Related, Jaycar sells pin extractors (eg HT-319C) for $17.95.Ebay: 171066683271 US$8.79 + $4.90 post. Except of course you can buy all 4 sizes and the post is still $4.90.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 12:57:21 pm
content: Quote from: notsob on August 29, 2013, 09:49:04 pmNot in a rush as my handheld drill works well for now. Think I'll just keep any eye out for one of those older units appearing on the secondhand market.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 01:56:42 pm
content: I'd be tempted to buy one of those relatively cheap desktop cnc's for just under 1k like the cnc3020. Throw the board in and let it drill the holes, as a bonus you can get it to route copper clad boards and make fancy front panels

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 01:59:50 pm
content: Here's oneThere are plenty of reviews and demos on you tube... I'd actually prefer one of these to a 3d printer