Newbie to Electronics im 24 years old  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2010, 01:14:05 am
content: Hi Everyone, okay this is my first post, I love the videos and work by Dave, he is very inspiring, okay im 24 years old and live in the UK, im interested in Electronics and im new and just looking at it from a Hobby point of view, I have breadboard and multimeter and know the basics, im wondering now how can I teach myself I know books and the Internet are the best tools, im wondering also if you guys could give me a breakdown of things to learn and understand at this stage for me? What specific topics. Also without a degree in Electronics Engineering what career choices or options are they? I know this is a long way as im new but Im just curiousThanks everyone and thanks Dave for this great websiteJohn

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2010, 03:20:51 am
content: Quote from: VladKEasternTiger on February 27, 2010, 01:14:05 amDepends on the culture in your country, the field, and the company in question.It can range anywhere from having the exact same choices and options as someone with a degree, or no hope at all.But generally speaking, electronics has traditionally been an industry where qualifications don't matter much, it's your experience that counts. That's pretty much how it is here in Australia, but other countries will vary.Dave.

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2010, 08:13:28 am
content: Hi Dave my eyes are still half shit its 7am here, Im in the UK so I guess its similar culture to that of Austraila?

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2010, 10:39:37 am
content: I understand how you feel, it's just coming up on 4am here in Nebraska.I think what Dave's talking about is somewhat like the old debate in the IT industry about certification, experience, and education (in the formal sense). Pick any two, put a 'versus' in between and google it, and you'll get a heap of articles debating the pros and cons from both the human resource and job seeker points of view. It seems that popular opinion waxes and wanes as to which is to be most respected, at least in the IT industry at large. I suspect it will depend a lot on the position you're after and the particular beliefs prevalent among those who often do the hiring in the local industry. Individuals are different, but they tend to use similar sources of information to form their opinions of best practices, so they can be described as belonging to a culture of thought.If you want to know more about how things sit where you are you could check with some local companies and see what they say. I rambled on a bitin another threadabout this. I'm a big fan of jumping right in and asking. It could help you make friends, build contacts, and could lead to a job someday. If you manage to talk for a while with some of the people in your area, you might get to know the work in a day to day sort of way and see if you'd like it.Speaking more to the hobby side of things, there are a couple threads related to print resources floating around on the forum. I wondered myself about where to start, so I skimmed through the table of contents of a few of the books (that I can't afford yet). It seems that the first foundational concepts are rooted in DC circuit theory. It's just the sort of thing the old 50-in-One kits used to have, but with more depth. This is the direction I'm coming from, but some folks seem to break in from the uC world. I guess in that case they tend to be coming from the world of programming, so their learning priorities would be different than someone like myself who just has a 'fix the toaster' background. It all depends on where you are and where you want to go. If you're not sure where you want to go yet, it's hard to go wrong building more gear for yourself.I hope that helps a bit, need more coffee.

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2010, 03:25:39 pm
content: Hi thanks for your reply, That was refereshing to read, Yes I understand what you mean talk to people in the specific industry, they is so much to learn and the more you uncover the more you realise how little you actually know, well in my case anyway, one person told me the best way to understand and learn electronics is immerse yourself in it buy a breadboard and MOSFET transistors led lights and play around and learn basic schematic diagarams. I want to be able ultimately to understand and fix and troubleshoot electric devices in businesses and homes, again I have no money for college and have to rely on the Libary for books

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2010, 03:30:34 pm
content: Quote from: DJPhil on February 27, 2010, 10:39:37 amOne more thing I forgot to mention, may I ask how long have you been into electronics or are you new to this, what do you think can be acheived in 2 years of self study? Einstein said if you study a subject for 15 minutes daily you can become an expert

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2010, 01:25:52 am
content: Quote from: VladKEasternTiger on February 27, 2010, 03:30:34 pmI myself am fairly new to component level electronics, I'm no professional by any means! I'm just an all-purpose science and computer nerd who took to focusing on electronics in a bit more depth than I have previously. For me it's one of those 'black boxes', the contents of which I don't fully understand. I try to fix, modify, and improve nearly everything I come across, and I've been limited in the sense that once I reach a circuit board it either works or it doesn't. I don't ever expect my electronic skill to rise to the level of marketability, it's simply an interesting and useful skill set I can add to what I already (sort of) know.The rest I believe boils down to focus and motivation, and I tend to believe that anything's possible. If you're pursuing a passion then it will be somewhat natural to keep learning and practicing. What you'll know after two years will depend on all sorts of things. You might try setting a goal and simply work in that direction, like a particular thing you want to build, and that way you have a direction and a scope within which you can begin. I try to understand things well enough so that I can teach them to someone else, whether or not I ever actually do. There's a lot that could be said about this, but I'm probably not the one to best organize the concepts of personal growth.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2010, 06:01:41 pm
content: from the little i know there is no electronics industry in the uk to speak of, or rather its quite competitive, I've been told it's a waste of time trying at and so have chosen not to persue it as I don't think I'm good enough for a carrer at it except if I'm self employed then no one can moan about my qualifications and just take a product on does it or does it not work !You will need a basic understanding of both analogue and digital electronics and making them work together, micro controllers are a wonderful world but I would suggest a sound foundation in electronics first, microcontrollers require more programming skills than anything else and you will need to knpw how to lay out a circuit around them and get them to interface with the real world.if you don't mind work just assembling etc there may be work out there but as a designer I think you will have to get to be very good and probably qualified, maybe designing something off your own back will get you noticed.the above may all be wrong but its my general impression, in one words it boils down to: china, we can't be bothered in the UK anymore to actually make something

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 05:38:02 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 28, 2010, 06:01:41 pmHi Simon, thanks for the response, I agree China and Japan and India and Israel are dominating in electronics, mabie that is incorrect but from what ive seen many electronic engineers lots are from the countries I mentioned. I am not talking about this very skilled advanced leve, I think when we use the term "electronics" we all have different interpretations of it, my interpretation is simply knowing different components and how they all work and function together, basic devices such televisions, radios, telephones etc.. if you see what I mean? sure they mabie no money or "career" in this field because when you purchase a new television or electronic device most consumers also purchase the extended warranty with it, thats why many old type of repair shops have closed down where I live. I know first hand if you ask 20 people in the street about a circuit board mabie 1 or 2 or 3 would know about how they function, I built a basic laser trip wire circuit alarm and my friends are so impressed by this.Do you know why the uk "cannot be bothered anymore" to make things?

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 05:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 27, 2010, 03:20:51 amHi Dave, someone of your knowledge is it possible to attain with out the university/college route as people cannot afford this, how about learning from the material online and books, im wondering how good you can troubleshoot and repair basic electronic devices such as televisions, dvd players, hi fi and ipod systems?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 06:06:27 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 28, 2010, 06:01:41 pmI've been told the same thing.I've often thought of doing a degree but even if I had the motivation to, I still might not be able to find a job.The trouble is, most of the electronics engineering has gone to China.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 06:26:02 pm
content: Well I've set myself to learn as much as I can and do what I can for myself, maybe oneday I could have a part time business at it just because it's something I enjoy and can make some pocket money with, the thing is to find things that are different to do, things that china has not thought of, find a niche market, not only is it pointless trying to re-invent the wheel when it comes to china you can't compete with the prices anyhow !

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 07:54:27 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 01, 2010, 06:26:02 pmHi Simon can you tell me when you say part time business what would it povide I am assuming general electronic trouble shooting and repairs. BTW I love your website, your a great Photographer

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 09:08:39 pm
content: Quote from: VladKEasternTiger on March 01, 2010, 05:52:45 pmThere is nothing stopping anyone from self learning the same or more than someone with classic university education, a PhD or whatever.Remember, no course, however good and detailed will teach you much about anything, they are just too general in scope. And the rate at which you are bombarded means it's in one ear and out the others. Most are too interested in just passing the exam than learning something.In the end it always comes down to experience, attitude, and aptitude.The entire MIT EE course is available online as video lectures, so you can do the entire course if you like without paying a cent, it just takes time.How good can I troubleshoot TV's and HiFi's?I'll be the first to admit I suck at it, so I usually won't even bother. Any TV tech would do it 50 times faster than I could, and with little or no gear, because they have the experience and the parts.Dave.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 09:25:39 pm
content: Designing is one thing, troubleshooting is another, it's one thing to design something, you know how it works and hopefully if your a good designer you know what went wrong if something does, knowing the potential faults of another persons design and how to trace them is a totaly different thing

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 09:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 01, 2010, 09:08:39 pmThank you for the reply Dave, Im surprised at that last comment and I dont mean it in a derogatory way, forgive me as im a novice in all of Engineering and Eletronics, I just assume that all EE would know blindfolded things like tv or hifi diagnoisis

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 09:43:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 01, 2010, 09:08:39 pmThere is nothing stopping anyone from self learning the same or more than someone with classic university education, a PhD or whatever.Remember, no course, however good and detailed will teach you much about anything, they are just too general in scope. And the rate at which you are bombarded means it's in one ear and out the others. Most are too interested in just passing the exam than learning something.In the end it always comes down to experience, attitude, and aptitude.The entire MIT EE course is available online as video lectures, so you can do the entire course if you like without paying a cent, it just takes time.Absoutely

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 10:08:33 pm
content: what was the point of reposting what dave had already said twice

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2010, 10:49:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 01, 2010, 10:08:33 pmWhen I totally agree with a statement I cut and paste the specific to illustrate my view

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2010, 07:46:01 am
content: you can partially quote someone (by removing the text you are not refering to) and put you comment underneith/above, in this way we don't have ythe read a quote AND read it again in your own post

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2010, 08:40:22 am
content: Quote from: Simon on March 01, 2010, 09:25:39 pmAbsolutely.My first job was troubleshooting and testing video switching and security gear, and after a while you get so good at troubleshooting that particular gear, you can do it 10 times faster than the actual designer could. It's all about familiarity with the gear in question. I'd have no hesitation is saying that with that particular gear, I was the worlds best troubleshooter. But give me a TV I have never touched before and I'll look like a turkey.That's why I don't think there is an EE in existence that could fix a TV quicker than an experienced TV service tech, even if they are the worlds best troubleshooter. There is just no substitute for device specific experience.Dave.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2010, 06:18:40 pm
content: quite, when I lived in Italy I befriended a local TV repairer who was also a hobbiest, he would get me parts i needed as in Italy you can only buy from Rs and others if you are a business, I would often chat with him about projects and take stuff for him to identify as I was always pulling TV's apart to recover the parts that otherwise I would have to wait weeks for. I remember taking him a circuit to ask him what it was and without a second glance before i even handed it to him he told me not only that it was a power supply but one from a philips TV. most TV's have diagrams that can be obtained listing comon faults and showing waveforms and voltages on selectred point of diagnostic interest.designing and repairing are two totally different fields

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2010, 12:13:27 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 01, 2010, 06:06:27 pmWhy has it gone to china other than economic factors, they is more to electronics than electronic engineering dont you think?

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2010, 02:17:35 am
content: Quote from: VladKEasternTiger on March 04, 2010, 12:13:27 amhttp://www.metacafe.com/watch/847607/the_world_is_changing/The video says it all.

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2010, 02:42:37 pm
content: Good vediowhat the solution is?

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2010, 04:29:09 am
content: I think if we had the answer, the UK government, EU and United Nations would be employing us as advisors. The govt here (UK) is always complaining that there aren't enough skilled professionals. What they forget to add is "... at the pittance we are willing to pay". Yet they are always willing to pay high salaries for people who sit at a desk and just talk all day.The important thing is, what doyouwant to do, and what can you do already? The software aspect of engineering seems to be suffering less than hardware design, so it may be that would be a profitable area for you to consider.Electronics is such a huge field that it can seem difficult to find a starting point. As a teenager (who had been into electronics since way before school) I found an excellent route into electronics was amateur radio. This will give you a good grounding in basic practical and theoretical electronics and provide a framework for you to expand your experience. It isn't by any means just radio frequency electronics (although that is the basis of all the courses and the exams) but involves things like power supplies, audio processing, embedded processors and so on. The most important point is that you do something, something that acts as a metaphorical piece of grit to form your pearl around. More than that, 'ham' radio is a sort of fraternity, many engineers are (or have been) hams and it is a good way of getting to know people.I can't over-emphasise though how satisfying it is to build and operate your own transmitter or receiver, and at the same time understand how it works (or maybe understand why it doesn't!)http://www.rsgb.org/getlicence/If you have a big bookshop near you (preferably one associated with a University city rather than the sort that just sells the latest novels) you might like to look at GCSE or 'A' Level Electronics books and see if they cover the sort of things you are interested in. I'm afraid the theory can be rather dull and dry, but a solid theoretical foundation is the basis of a good engineer. As an electronics undergrad student, the vast amount of your course would be theory. This has the side effect of producing quite a few graduates with excellent grades, but who are actually useless engineers. They usually end up as managers or something.Mike

author: Knappster
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2010, 12:59:40 am
content: I'm a 25 year old electronics enthusiast in the UK also. I completed a National Diploma in Electronic Engineering at college went on to do a HNC in Electronic Engineering. The college pulled all funding for the electronics department half way through my HNC course so I couldn't complete it. I was furious!Colleges over here tend to jump on band wagons, at the time I was studying colleges were receiving more funding from the UK gov. if they hosted more facilities for handicapped or disabled people, so out went the electronics department. I was incredibly angry as the gov. were moaning and complaining about companies constantly increasing the amount of outsourcing they were doing and at the lack of skilled engineers in the UK. The nearest college that did the courses I wanted to learn was 50 miles away, the public transport being as it is here in the UK made that impossible for me.I got a few retail jobs and tried a year at Uni. but had to give that up as I simply couldn't afford it. So now I'm stuck doing a job I don't like and have had to resort to home study courses for a way out. Although obviously there aren't any home study courses for electronics so I'm doing several CompTIA computer courses, mostly linux and network security based. I'm hoping I can apply embedded linux to my interest in electronics design. I would still love to obtain a job in electronic engineering as I think I have a natural understanding when it comes to circuits and their design but I'm constantly held back. I design a few project circuits at home but it doesn't help me move forward into a position were someone might actually employ me. One look at my CV and they think all I can do is solder a few components on a board.This is the problem, I can't get a job doing something I enjoy because I don't have the right pieces of paper and because of this I can't gain experience and move my career forwards. Living in the UK sucks balls!!! Best I can hope for is to keep doing my projects at home and maybe turn them into products I can sell or possibly go back to Uni when I'm 30

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2010, 07:45:23 am
content: yep in the same boat here, I didn't even bother with my "local" college 25 miles away because it was obvious that they were no taking it seriously enough, how can you expect a working person to take one whole day off a week plus an evening, ruined all prospects or working and studying, I asked where I work now and they refused - funny thing being they could do with someone that can do electronics as we are still using prewar electrical methods here (like massive power resistors to drop 24 V to 12 V), from the little i have seen of the UK since I have come back from abroad (where living sucks bigger balls than in the UK by the way) they would have a course all about beurocracy and how to make more of it if they could get away with it.I've resolved to working on my own with my hobby and learning through the projects that I want to build and forums like these. I have learnt more from forums than from my electronics college in Italy, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't thr same for the UK.

author: VladKEasternTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2010, 01:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: Knappster on March 10, 2010, 12:59:40 amHi, yes I understand, I am in the UK and all the EE I know are imported from India. Have a look at Wahid he has a website Electronic Thinking, he made some informative videos google the website. Mabie his programme only applies to people in the US but its worth a try

author: cjp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 27, 2010, 09:05:43 pm
content: Hi John - first post here for me too so hi everybody!I'm 26 and getting back into electronics after nearly 10 years away. When I was 14/15 I taught myself all the basics using the book "Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics" by Stan Gibilisco (http://bit.ly/aQMeLi) - which is quite a daunting read for the beginner, but if you can take all the theory it's well worth it. It gives you a quiz at the end of each chapter, which I like (plus you can probably pick up a copy cheap as it's old, or your library should be able to order it in). But it is not a "fun" read by any means. Though I made plenty of things back then, many quite advanced, I somehow fell out of touch with electronics and now feel like a complete newbie again! Coming back into electronics I really wanted to refresh my memory, and fancied something a bit more well, fun, to read. So I picked up a copy of "Make: Electronics - Learning Through Discovery" by Charles Pratt (http://bit.ly/bhvORO). Oh how I wish this book was around when I was younger! It is very simple, and starts with you immediately actually making things! Anyone with long experience in electronics would probably find this book too simple - but hey, we're just starting out. You can also buy kits of parts online to go with this book, though you might have to get these from the USA (http://bit.ly/9HdISQ) - although most the parts are pretty standard, and if you don't already have them lying around you can source them in the UK from Rapid, RS or Farnell etc easy enough. Apart from that I have a bookshelf full of circuit books by R.A Penfold (now ten years old!) and have starting buying a magazine called E.P.E (Everyday Practical Electronics) once again, which is always great for getting circuit ideas - you should find this in any large newsagent, WHSmith always seem to stock it.Hope that helps!PS: I used to have a collection of URL's for circuits sources online, but understandably after ten years these links are mostly dead - has anyone here got any recommendations for good sites?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2010, 01:08:46 am
content: my dads old college book "electronics for today and tomorrow" was quite a good read for ground knowledge

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2010, 04:34:50 pm
content: By doing degree, you'll be guided on what subjects thats most relevant to the field, generally. Yes, you will not learn much about reality, but will be tought differently, at slightly higher level of doing things. Ie doing things without ever touching it first, or it hasnt existed yet. the layman word for it is "designing". Everybody can design, but a U post graduate, generally will have more insight and consideration when doing this "designing" stage. There maybe a totally different aspects related to the design that is not known or tought to the Non-U ppl. I'm not sure about EE since i'm not EE engineering, but when it comes to mechanical design, mostly i will see ppl just being happy when their project works (mechanical is easy and the oldest discipline). But when it comes down to say optimization, fine tuning, precise measurement, stability conformance, most cost effective, tolerance, safety factor (and reasons for it), brand new spanking "never been thought design" etc etc, this is where all the tought subjects in U should be gathered and a very systematic procedure should be layed out, instead of just "try and error". Same thing with PhD or master graduates, they have higher level of knowledge and experience.There are distinctions between Scientists, Engineers, Technicians, Hobbyists. Unless most or all the U subjects have been covered, even a very good technician will never be an engineer, and its vice versa. A very good engineer will never be a good technician unless all the skills and experiences have been covered (or transferred). Because each level have their own very special and specific ways of doing things. But u can be half engineer half technician, half hobbyist, or even half scientist. its just depend on your knowledge and interest. So which one would u like to choose? Would you say a doctor in hospital is just nothing more than a witch? Someone mentioning Albert Einstein. He is a failed graduate and knows sh*t about mathematics, but the way he is doing things, worth him in the ranking of scientist and he self learnt that (as far as i know). Mathematician? we'll they are very different beasts of "abstraction" compared to scientist and totally out of our league here.What about certificate? well, that can bought just if u have the money, or faked just if you have the knowledgebut whats inside your brain is what really prove you. Just IMHO, since there is discussion about cert (U) and non cert thing.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2010, 06:00:21 pm
content: If you want a career in electronics it pays to go to college because in the US, all major companies recruit from the schools. Also, cutting edge electronics, the one's you can make a good living at, are only known to the insiders often who teach in the schools. A lot of online stuff is technician grade.For example, we talk of many equipment companies like Fluke or Aligent. They recruit from schools often because they know fresh grads know the state of the art in their field but have zero experience [although many schools will give an intern period in a real company], then shape them in the company to focus on their product line.http://us.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/About/Employment/The US is experiencing a huge shortage of engineers in all fields, especially electrical, and demand is high. But you need to focus on what is needed too, and hopefully its want you want.