3M SOIC8 clip, waste of time/money - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 06:49:35 pm
content: I just invested in a SOIC8 chip clip from farnell so that I can program soic chips in circuit, well guess what ? whaaaaa! it don't make contact ! Are these things really supposed to work ? I tried it on a board with a chip on it: nothing, so thought ok maybe my bad hand soldering, So I got a brandnew chip and tried putting it in as far as I could: still nothing.So conclusion ? the clips a waste of money (and they don't come cheap the 8 pin one was like £16) and make damn sure you put a ISP header on your board. Of course if you want to debug just hope you have a damn steady hand

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 07:02:33 pm
content: Could you post a link or the order number?Have you complained?If I built anything like that, I'd be tempted to do in circuit programming. For a breadboard, I'd make an adaptor PCB, if the IC wasn't available in a through hole package.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 07:18:22 pm
content: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=178278Yea I plan on getting it returned. My plan was to be able to clip to the chip on the pcb and program it rather than have the header.

author: RayJones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 09:21:56 pm
content: 3M used to be associated with real good quality stuff so it is surprising it did not work.I do like your idea of using a clip for ICSP,I too have a design where the usual header gets in the way as it is meant to be a replacement "chip" that replaces an unobtanium device - ie clearance above the board and beneath does not really allow the luxury of normal pin headers.I also note the pins brought out on the clip are flat and square.I found these were very painful to use when probing with a logic analyser.You could get ones with round pins and a mushroom top. If you cut the mushroom off your logic analyser probes would push straight one, albeit one side used to be a bit short.Mind you, that was with 0.1" pitch units, the 0.05" pitch would not allow that unless they staggered the pins to allow space for the nominal 0.1" diameter analyser probe inputs.I would think that Farnell would accept this as faulty, they are pretty good in that regard, especially as it is not a electronic device so it's a bit hard to blow up!

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 09:39:38 pm
content: Quote from: RayJones on February 04, 2011, 09:21:56 pmAye, there were some 3M DIP clips in the bundle of bits that came with my logic analyser and they're far superior to any of the others in the bunch. Would definitely have been my first choice were I to buy some more clips, so hopefully Simon just got a duff one somehow!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 09:47:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 04, 2011, 07:18:22 pmI remember seeing something like that where I used to work but I've never used it.QuoteI don't see the need for any headers. All you need to do is fit the MCU first, tack some fine enamelled wire on to the parts of the circuit required for programming, program it, remove the wire and solder on the rest of the components. A headers only a good idea if you plan to reprogram it. You do normally need to design your circuit so ISP is possible but you can probably do it without any modifications to the original design if you program it before fitting the other components.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 10:07:36 pm
content: well i hoped to be able to reprogram a chip if need be, being soic chips I still needed an adaptor to program them so thought getting the clip was better than the socket as I can use the clip for reprograming as well as first time in circuit programming rather than buying to bits of kit or having to program before soldering and then lump it. Looks like the easiest option is an ISP header.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2011, 11:53:14 pm
content: I;ve used these a lot and they work fine once you trim the tips down a bit - the plastic seperators between the pins get wider towards the tip the idea being this helps hold them on the chip, but in practice they often hold the contacts away from the chip pins, reducing conntact pressure.just take a sharp knife and trim as shown by the orange line :A squirt of flux cleaner before clipping on also helps improve contact.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2011, 08:05:52 am
content: well on a new chip there should be no problem anyway ? looking at it the slots might need cutting through, so that the clip can drop lower on the chip. the problem is that the metal contact just don't reach down to the pins

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2011, 08:08:06 am
content: http://hackaday.com/2010/11/18/build-your-own-soic-progamming-clip/You could always roll your own

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2011, 08:20:36 am
content: hm, interesting, but it won't work woth a chip on the board

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2011, 09:28:54 am
content: What about making a small pcb header having two rows of 0.05" pitch male connectors (maybe at right angle, like thesehttp://www.gradconn.com/1-27mm/1-27mm-results.asp?Pitch=1.27mm&Type=Header&Orientation=RightAngle&Rows=Single&Mount=ThroughHole&Elevated=False&act=0), to be pressed down on the board pads or IC pins?The tiny header could be pulled down by magnet-iron attraction (a piece of iron on the header, a quite large magnet below the board).

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2011, 09:30:05 am
content: You are not alone:http://www.element-14.com/community/message/23661Maybe time to make some public stink on that element14/farnell site.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2011, 05:55:38 pm
content: The below is the backward and forward of emails since the item was returned, to be honest they don't look like they really careDear LaunaAs a professional Quality control inspector I'm appalled by the situation you are still in. People reported issues with this product on YOU OWN BLOG (http://www.element-14.com/community/message/23661) over 4 months ago and the item is still for sale ! I bought the item 3 months after the issue was reported.As for your "investigation": "we will investigate" WHATyou mean you have not investigated yet ?You still have a 100nF capacitor for sale that went out of production and stock over a year ago and it still shows up as a product you have specially selected to tell me about just because I bought a few when they were going for a good price as they were being "ditched", so really, the better Farnell tries to look the more foolish it looks, just worry about supplying quality products and let THE engineers do the rest !I'll just learn my lesson and be very wary of anything I buy from farnell that is more than a simple electronic part and perhaps remember that there are other suppliers out there.Kind regardsSimon> Good afternoon Simon,>> The collection has been arranged from the address you have stated below.>> Your comments and feedback have been forwarded to the relevant departments and we will investigate this internally.>> We will take the neccessary measures and procedures should this part need to be removed from our range.>> Kind regards,>> Launa>> Launa Gallagher> Customer Support Team, Farnell> support@farnell.com> T: +44 (0 )8447 11 11 13 [Ext. 1733]> F: +44 (0) 8447 11 11 12>www.farnell.co.uk>> A Premier Farnell Company>>> From: Simon> Sent: 07 February 2011 17:20> To: Support-UK> Subject: Feedback from: Simon>> Hello Jonny,>> Many thanks for your speedy reply. Please ensure pickup is made from: *************** the driver will need to ask for Simon . I would also like to know what action is being taken on this product, why is it still for sale ? will it be taken down and recalled ? many other people have this item and are complaining on your own blog. but I see the item still for sale.>> Kins regards> Simon>>>>>> Dear Simon,>>>> Please accept our apologies that the part received did not make your expectations. I have arranged a return and collection request, if you could please parcel up the non working item with a copy of the original despatch note inside and then please mark the outside of the returns number with the following returns number: 2462762. I have arranged a UPS collection and they will collect within the next 48 hours, once this has been processed through our returns department a credit will be applied to your account.>>>> Please don’t hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.>>>> Many thanks and kind regards>>>> Jonny>>>> Jonny O'Carroll>> Customer Support Team, Farnell>> support@farnell.com>> T: +44 (0) 8447 11 11 13 [Ext. 1762]>> F: +44 (0) 8447 11 11 12>>www.farnell.co.uk>> A Premier Farnell Company>>>> -----Original Message----->> From: simon>> Sent: 07 February 2011 12:49>> To: Support-UK>> Subject: Feedback from: Simon>> Issue: Returns_Queries>> My_Issue: I have orderedand received a soic8 test clip your part number 178278. I am extremely disatisfied with this product as it simply does not work ! >From what I can tell the contacts in the clip are too short to meet the pins of the IC. I am discustedand appalled that this item is even sold. Your own element14 "blog thing" has a discussion on this very product and the fact that it is useless. I would like to return the item for credit. Please let me know what I should do. Kind regards Simon>>>> submit_x: 73>> submit_y: 3>> submit: submit

author: sdscotto
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2011, 04:19:03 am
content: I have been using an ITT Pomona 5250. I bought the 5514 kit used and have been quite happy with the quality.http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/pdf/d5250-54_5437_1_01.pdfscotto

author: squeezee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2011, 03:35:29 am
content: If you're progamming a lot of the same board perhaps making a jig and using Pogopins would be the best option. e.g.Sparkfuns PogoBeds

author: lowwrid3r
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 02:30:50 pm
content: I know it is very long time ago that this topic was raised, but I have something I want to share with you.So recently at work I came across an issue where I'd have liked to have the option to readout an external dataflash chip using a IC test clip. I saw this (expensive) 3M IC SOIC8 test clip and decided to get one. On the first attempts it worked, but it was not easy at all to apply. But okay... it did its thing.Then on the second day I tried it again, and only out of 53 attempts, only 1 time a flash readout succeeded. An hour flew away trying to get it working. As annoyed I was, I noticed that the dataman program was right. The VCC was indeed not there, since the VCC pin on the test clip had a bad contact. We decided to check the test clip and indeed, the pin in the clip simply went up, had no contact with the IC anymore and from a distance it all looked just fine. I pressed the pin down and tried again. Hmm, still no work here..Upon some googling we came across this thread and I have to say thanks! The trick to cut down the plastic at the bottom of the clip worked for me.3M, it is so said that even after 10 (!) years, a bad product is STILL SOLD.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 06:48:35 pm
content: As suggested in the post before yours pogo pins are probably the way. some really small ones can be bought. a PCB can be designed and using 2 identical PCB's spaced out with good tight holes for the pins to go through the line up should be quite accurate.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 07:20:43 pm
content: I just saw the refresh for this thread. My experience with a genuine 3M Textool for SOIC8 (208-7391-55-1902 ) that was bought in the early 2000's (probably 2003 or 2004) couldn't be more different. I built a DIP adapter board for it and used it routinely to program PIC12Fxxx and PIC12F1xxx chips using a PICStart Plus and PK3.It never failed. It was expensive, though.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 07:22:30 pm
content: well mine was from Farnell, so you'd hope that they were genuine.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 05:53:52 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 10, 2021, 07:20:43 pmSame here. I have 2 - 8 pin and 20 pin. Both work perfectly. I even made PCB adaptors the clip onto the other end and allow standard programming cables to plug in. Made programming PICs really easy. Unfortunately, I don't use PICs or SOICs very much any more so they kind of gather dust.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 07:55:51 am
content: I got this a year ago and it's fine. I've been reprogramming ATTINY85's built into commercial products with it.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V9QNAC4/

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 12:03:43 am
content: Those are pretty messy. I prefer the pogo pins type, the sharp needles will break through the dirt / flux / surface oxidation and perform much better.Just like this one.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001768959940.htmlBut if you aren't programming it already soldered, a socket is even better, and crazy cheap. I remember these costing hundreds 15 years ago!https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000801242080.html

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:16:30 am
content: But how do you keep it in the right place, hands free?The one I have I can just attach and leave it there for hours or days, if desired.I haven't had a problem getting a satisfactory connection, maybe with a little wiggling.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:44:31 am
content: If you are doing a lot of work or need to do this to the same design repeatedly then jigs can be made to hold the PCB and hold the pin assembly and then lower the pins to the installed board assembly.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 08:33:04 am
content: Quote from: Simon on March 10, 2021, 07:22:30 pmAccording to the Farnell link you posted above, it's no longer manufactured, so it must've been a bad/defective design from the start. I'm surprised a supposidly good brand would let through such a shoddy design.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 09:21:53 am
content: Quote from: Simon on March 15, 2021, 07:44:31 amSure, but that's a production line thing, not a hobbyist thing.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 10:25:35 am
content: Digikey still lists it as active, $27.53 each :https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/3m/208-7391-55-1902/1130108 It has 512 in stock.EDIT:I wrote 3M and asked whether product was discontinued. "Jason" responded with this link to authorized distributors and stock on hand:https://www.findchips.com/search/208-7391-55-1902?&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6-PMl7ay7wIVEb7ACh3-TACOEAAYAiAAEgK8zfD_BwEFarnell is listed as showing 395 in stock. However, Jason said noting about the product's status.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:33:07 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 15, 2021, 08:33:04 amThat is what amazed me, 3M are not cheap, you expect their stuff to be good, I was doubtful at the time and only bought it as it was made by a brand such as 3M. I was recently looking for some kapton tape, ahem i mean poly-something tape....... I soon found that kapton is likely a trademark of 3M and it's dammed expensive like 5x or more the price of the same thing calleh poly-something.