Ultrasonic toothbrush! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2018, 11:19:22 pm
content: Philips has sonic toothbrushes:https://toothbrushbattery.com/blog/can-hack-philips-sonicare-toothbrush/But wait, why sonic if it can be ultrasonic:https://www.emmi-dent.com/However, in real conditions, how effective can this be?What do you think?Related links:https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/electric-toothbrush-ultrasonic-transducer_60141355737.html?spm=a2700.7724857.main07.7.5b562e88xcqP5e

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 02:18:02 am
content: I wouldn't buy any of those; doesn't pass the sniff test for me. If you ask me (you probably shouldn't, because I don't know much), I think those are marketing wank trying to promote an ordinary product with a small piezo transducer doing essentially nothing, using terms people have heard their dentists and dental hygienists use.Ultrasonic removal of dental tartar and calculus (root debridement using an ultrasonic scaler) is a thing, and is much better than the old pokey-scrapey with a pointy metal bit method. Those are proper medical devices, not toothbrushes, though, and not being a medical physicist I don't know if the tech can be safely combined into a toothbrush at all. The "ultrasonic" bit is related tocavitation, and I imagine that an actually effective ultrasonic scaler used daily would eventually erode your teeth as well. (Same goes for ultrasonic cleaners as well; the "ultrasonic" bit is actually important here.)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 02:51:33 am
content: The "transducer" (if you can even call it that) won't do anything. The soft bristles will absorb basically all the energy.Ultrasonic scalers work because they're basically a dental pick with the transducer attached, which being stiffwilltransmit the energy to the tip and onto the teeth.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 12:08:10 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 06, 2018, 02:18:02 amLOL... Well, I never thought about buying one, basically for the same reasons you expose.Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 06, 2018, 02:18:02 amYep, I agree.Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 06, 2018, 02:18:02 amYeah, just like amyk wrote:Quote from: amyk on December 06, 2018, 02:51:33 amQuote from: Nominal Animal on December 06, 2018, 02:18:02 amAnd since cavitation is the formation of vapour cavities in a liquid, it can work inside a glass full of water. But, I can't imagine brushing my teeth with my mouth full of water.Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 06, 2018, 02:18:02 amThe teeth are extremely strong, they support high loads and even high temperatures. As we all know, acids are his kryptonite, also ultraviolet light.Toothbrushes can erode the dentin a bit, but no idea of how much "damage" can cause the use of an ultrasonic scaler daily.Quote from: amyk on December 06, 2018, 02:51:33 amYes, and it looks more like a small piezoelectric speaker.Sorry, I tend to split replies. I think it makes reading easier, and perhaps avoids misunderstandings.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 04:21:22 pm
content: I tried using Sonicare for a few months. It was too intense on my gums and tongue. I think it cleaned better than a manual brush though, but clean is clean... Now I use a water pik, which I think is also important to work the gums and floss.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 04:52:48 pm
content: I don't know why they call it ultrasonic - the frequency is not that high. So the naming is a little confusing maybe BS, but the product itself works well. The cleaning is intense - to compensate for that the cleaning time is reduced to 2 minutes. Even with a manual toothbrush too much abrasion can damage the teeth, especially if whitening toothpaste is used.I have use a Sonicare for quite a while - until one could not get the old style brushes anymore in Europe. The battery was pretty dead by than too.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 04:58:34 pm
content: The best (and most cheap) by far:- Toothpaste:- Any with fluoride (more ppm, better), but without triclosan.- Oral Irrigator:- h2ofloss hf-3 Premium.- Electric toothbrush:- Philips Sonicare HX6511/50.- Dental floss:- Any, but without wax.- As mouthwash:- 1/2 Hydrogen peroxide (10 vol or 3%) + 1/2 Watter.- Coconut oil.Videos:

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 05:52:20 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on December 06, 2018, 04:52:48 pmWell, "emmi-dent" claims up to 96 million air oscillations per minute (whatever that really means), which would suggest a transducer driven at 1.6MHz, similar to the ones used for medical ultrasound devices (usually in the MHz range as well, something between 4MHz and 20MHz most often). Definitely ultrasonic. But those transducers are not cheap at all. I have kind of a hard time believing this is really what they put inside their toothbrushes.As others have said, I'd be wary of the result anyway - might very well erode teeth too much in the long run (if it really works), and might not be good for people having tooth prosthesis or dental implants...

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 08:00:44 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 06, 2018, 05:52:20 pmI thought ultrasound was merely above human hearing, or 20kHz. I read the toothbrush is ~60kHz, so for 96 million air oscillations per second, maybe that is with 1600 bristles all vibrating at the same time...?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 08:29:03 pm
content: I have a Sonicare toothbrush. The brushes themselves have to be replaced periodically, when you do that themagnetsout of the used up brushes are worth saving, as they are quite strong.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 08:57:39 pm
content: I still have mine. Maybe I'll try using it to clean flux off my boards.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 10:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on December 06, 2018, 08:29:03 pmThe new version is a bit better.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2018, 11:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on December 06, 2018, 08:00:44 pmIt's anything above what humans can hear, so around > 20 kHz.Ultrasound scanners work at the MHz range and yes, it's acoustic waves!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_ultrasound

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 08:04:51 am
content: Actually ultrasound handpieces ("mechanical" use not probes for diagnostics) is usually somewhere around 30-40kHz. Piezo crystals positioned and tuned around shaft that oscillates the tip. It is mostly accompanied by irrigation either through the tip or along the side of the tip - cooling and debris removal purposes mostly (and sometimes aspiration).Ultrasonic handpiece is used for plaque removal at the dentist, but it is too aggressive to be used personally and on daily basis.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 08:43:04 am
content: Not sure it is ultrasonic, but the first few tomes it feels like the brush is buzzing your teeth out!I bough one about two years ago to replace a lost Braun (all white brush in an all white hotel bathroom...).It did do a good job, on par with the Braun.The Philips did the have significant advantages, at the time, of a longer battery life and being quieter - at equivalent price point.But the shaft seal broke after 10 months, water got in and it died.Not a big deal, but how am to get a new brush in the middle of the Red Sea?Anyhow, it got refunded, and replaced by a Braun-Colgate as by then they had caught up on the battery life and were much better on the noise.The Braun might to be as fancy and high tech as the Philips, but in as so far as reliability goes, I have nothing to complain about (I have used them since the 90’s, and the battery seems to die after 6 or 7 years if I don’t lose it before, no mechanicals so far).

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 06:55:52 pm
content: If you want to experiment on your teeth, just buy a used ultrasonic scaler on eBay.Or much cheaper on eBay is:ULTRASONIC STAIN REMOVERS!These things are great! Little steel tip, and you can see a bit of nebulizer mist rising from it when wet. Nice big PZT block, and a little mosfet half-H bridge. Nowapply directly to teeth.No don't. Yeesh.PSThe cheaper emmi-dent has a case which looks a lot like those handheld fabric cleaners, (which cost below $20.) Maybe they used the same cheap mass-produced PZT transducer. IIRC the fabric cleaners ran at 60KHz. Ultrasonic cleaning tubs run at 30-60KHz, not at MHz like the mist-makers do.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 09:07:45 pm
content: I wonder what is inside the"ultrasonic dental scaler"sold on eBay for under 11 UKP or 12 €.I especially like the sales blurb: Washing teeth with aluminium alloy is easier.Perhaps I could descale my teeth by chewing some aluminium foil?

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2018, 01:38:02 pm
content: My dentist says DON'T use electric toothbrushes, apparently they don't do anything like as good a job as a manual one used correctly.Of course they are also crazy expensive compared to the ordinary kind, which leads to people continuing to use worn-out heads.