So what's the next big bandwagon? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 02:22:45 pm
content: Was just discussing with someone today what the next big bandwagon could be in the electronics/hardware/product world?We just saw Makerbot make a squillion dollars, and there are now oodles of companies on that bandwagon.The smart watch bandwagon is gaining flight.What do people see as new emerging bandwagons?

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 02:33:31 pm
content: in my opinion android powered dildo, with stats/best moment snapshot apps and retina display could be the next good idea

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 02:35:50 pm
content: Trying to find the next bandwagon is like trying to win the Lottery. So many choices and possibilities, yet you are more likely to get struck by lightning.-kizzap

author: lgbeno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 02:35:57 pm
content: People talk about Internet of ThingsSorry Dave, couldn't resist...I do think though that there will be a proliferation of small, inexpensive devices that connect to a smartphone and do something. Smart watches and devices like the fitbit are two examples. Many, many more devices to come.IoT probably too wide of a category though in terms of your question.I do think that we've only seen the beginning of this 3D Printer phenomena. The Makerbot acquisition is the first proof that its a big market. It will never be as big of a change as the Internet was/is but it is like the Netscape IPO for 3D printing IMO.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 02:36:44 pm
content: Not in the same vain... but possibly head-up micro displays for your Android; never be out of touch with all your time wasting fiends.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 02:59:01 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 21, 2013, 02:22:45 pmyears ago i bought Jabra BT800 headset with display, honestly i thought "ohh right direction" but then things changed mobile phones got smaller and smaller, nobody was looking for headsets with display anymore so development stopped.But now we have brick sized smartphones, but no bt headset with display available (except that crap thing from sony having nothing and being oversized as well).

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:09:55 pm
content: I'll go out on a limb and predict that micro radios are one of the next big things. Also on the list are electro neural implants. We know that some of the brain's function have been decoded and they are building practical limbs which can be controlled by thought. I expect that before too long we will have implantable circuits which use micro radio comms to communicate our thoughts to devices and objects directly, perhaps using an antenna tattooed on your skin.Think "turn on the kettle" and bam, it switches on. When its done boiling the water it will communicate that back to you as a "feeling". You will just "know" it is finished. Want to get somewhere you haven't been? Think of the address and bam, you'll know the exact directions because your brain will ask the Internet and the data will be passed directly into your brain as directly usable knowledge.We are maybe 25-30 years away from seeing the first practical uses of that electro neural technology. I hope to see it before I die which I should do if all goes well. I hope to be involved in creating it at some level.Crazy? Maybe nothttp://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7408770nHopefully everyone can see video ok.

author: DerekZahn
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:21:30 pm
content: hard to predict this stuff, of course.... I still don't really get the whole 3D printer thing myself... what do people actually do with them?It seems pretty clear that Augmented Reality will continue to grow its Next-Big-Thinginess for quite a while yet, there are so many possible applications... a lot of that is software though... i suppose sensor technology and sensor integration offers Makers a way to be part of that...It is always possible that more traditional types of CNC manufacturing technology could become more popular if somebody can figure out how to make it easy and less messy... i think that advanced material-handling robotics would be required for that... in general, Robotics will be many Big Things over the next decades, but beats me exactly how and when. Once it becomes cheaper to integrate camera-based feedback into robotic control algorithms (like Rodney Brooks's new company is doing, as an industrial example), robots operating in human environments with less heavy and precise mechanics will become more feasible and cheaper...New display technologies will offer lots of opportunities for NBTs.It is really hard though to predict timing, though!!!

author: lgbeno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:29:00 pm
content: With respect to robotics, vision guided motion is very much in use today and it is quite sophisticated.I spent 6 months programming a Fanuc LR mate robot to do very fine assembly work and it was amazing what it could do. Most of these robotic systems are working very hard in factories today. It's more of a industrial phenomena though instead of a mass market consumer "bandwagon"

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:29:40 pm
content: Cloud based components! You just plug an empty box into an outlet, and let the cloud do the rest!

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 04:03:41 pm
content: I think the glory days of consumer startups are probably over but I reckon in the short term be may see a bit of buzz around the new game consoles coming.In the medium to long term? There's some buzz happening around new defense stuffs. Things like bigdog, better UAV's etc may see a whole new round of defense startups.The 3D print stuff will get slightly better... there's some really thin filaments being worked on that will get it closer to SLA results. But it probably won't get to product finish quality and will take along time to print.Longer term I think we'll see some of the cheap chinese goods disappear. I don't think there is a China v2 in india or anywhere else.. so it may provide the best shot in a long time of seeing some more consumer companies pop up.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 04:17:58 pm
content: The next thing will probably revolve around new battery technology and the new things it makes possible.We're well overdue for a big improvement in capacity, weight and charge time.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 06:45:01 pm
content: I think that whole "Internet" thing will catch on. Finally.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 07:08:39 pm
content: Electric cars, and to a lesser extent, self driving cars -- but this bandwagon will be driven by large corporations, not your average maker. Unless someone figures out how to make a reasonably universal low cost and easy to install conversion kit for petrol vehicles, which is unlikely to happen.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 07:12:10 pm
content: I don't think electric cars will really be a bandwagon, but I definitely see it for self-driving cars.Quote from: DerekZahn on June 21, 2013, 03:21:30 pmI agree with this.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 07:15:55 pm
content: Matter transporters, one day they will be as prolific as cell phones

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 10:34:27 pm
content: Homemade creature creation kits. Something like a 3D printer for life forms. Ok, maybe not next.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 10:36:53 pm
content: A 3D printer that can build a complete functioning device. Moving parts and all.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 10:48:48 pm
content: A food processor, you scan the bar codes of your food inventory, it suggests a menu / recipe and you load the machine as directed. All cooked to perfection

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 10:50:44 pm
content: The company I work for helped an inventor develop a product like that for service stations - idea was you bought some packed meal at the station and could scan the barcode and the microwave would set everything up for you. Useful to stop random customers coming in and microwaving other food too. It was a commercial failure, but I'm not sure why.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 10:55:56 pm
content: Ah I remember those machines, a factory that I used to visit used to have something similar. It cooked the prepacked cheeseburger, together with the saladI meant a machine that you can load raw ingredients, meat, eggs, flour e.t.c.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 10:59:47 pm
content: CHNOPS food production machinery. Make your grub from basic elements. Emergency use only. You can live on it, but it tastes like shit.

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 11:20:57 pm
content: I'm still waiting for artificial intelligence and nanotechnology to be the next big things.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 12:29:03 am
content: A desk-top chip printer. Duh! It will be called "Fab-in-a-box"

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 12:32:27 am
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on June 21, 2013, 10:59:47 pmReminds me of the "recycled food" dispensers in the Judge Dredd movie."Eat recycled food...It's great for the environment, and OK for you too."

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 12:46:24 am
content: Quote from: bilko on June 21, 2013, 10:55:56 pmKenwood have the Cooking Chef, which looks like a very fun machine -- but is rather significantly more food processor than I'll ever be able to justify buying

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 12:48:24 am
content: I think that if you look at the trends in technology, they largely center around empowering the user, and offering them information and control where they formerly had none. People will pay for that.The Philips Hue light bulb is one example - gives people control. 3G/4G mobile phones - gives users information. Smart phones - gives people information and control. I think that trend will inevitably continue. I would love to see someone develop (or maybe it already exists) simple "smart" circuit breakers that can show utilization and be controlled from anywhere. I'd like to know the temperature of each room in my house from anywhere. I'd like to be able to automate a lot of processes to simplify my life. That's why a lot of these Kickstarter projects that go in that direction do so well... whether it's monitoring your garage door, or that "SmartThings" project. People want information and control from anywhere. It has to be easy though - there's been home automation for years, and it never caught on in a huge way because it was a PITA and you had to buy modules and special controllers. Nobody wants to deal with that, especially now that we all have smartphones.Another area I think will grow a lot is energy harvesting and more resolution on energy expenditure. Things like car engines develop so much heat that is wasted.. and whole streets are lit up for hours even when nobody is using them. Even when we cook food at home, much of the energy is wasted. If you consider how much energy we actually need for the task at hand vs. how much we expend to achieve that task, it's a huge waste. That will be a big thing over the next 20 years and beyond. Especially as resources become divided across a larger population.

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 02:14:45 am
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on June 21, 2013, 10:36:53 pmTo be fair, the technology is already there.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 02:36:02 am
content: Quote from: DerekZahn on June 21, 2013, 03:21:30 pmMy Dad was an Engineering Patternmaker---he made up full sized wooden patterns of things which could then be used by the Moulder to make moulds for casting the final product.I'm not sure how they do it these days,(maybe Computer controlled woodworking machines?),but a 3D printer would make the patternmaking step a breeze.allowing small manufacturers to produce product faster & cheaper,while still retaining rhe efficiency & choice of materials of conventional moulding.Sculptors could also use them.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 03:26:57 am
content: I think that there will be a revolution in transistor electronics. I suspect the vacuum tube days are numbered.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 06:45:07 am
content: Quote from: DerekZahn on June 21, 2013, 03:21:30 pmThat's the kicker.They keep marketing these things as being the next home appliance. Print out your own nuts and bolts, knobs, toys, tools, whatever.The problem is the average person (or even tech geeks) do not have the time, skill, nor inclination to design the widget CAD file in the first place.So for the tool to be as useful as they claim, that means you have to have either:1) Theexactthing you want on Thingiverse/whatever.2) Aperfect3D scanner to duplicate the part you want in exact detail. Only have the broken one to copy? - oops.So I can't see how they can ever elevate themselves to a useful home appliance as was claimed on my nightly TV news the other night.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 06:52:47 am
content: I'm surprised nobody has said chip printers yet

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 07:24:40 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on June 22, 2013, 12:48:24 amOffering them theillusionof information and control. At least that is what I see in those fancy "empowerment" applications and appliances. It is often along the line of "You can perform heart surgery, too!" and "Become a rocket scientist in 5 seconds". Yes sure ...Empowerment means putting more decisionsthat matterinto the hands of users, not remote controls to select a few stupid LED light colors. Empowerment requires more education, more knowledge, more insight to make a decision. Unfortunately education systems around the world move in the opposite direction. On top of that people get stupid electronic toys to keep them busy.And that is the trend in technology, more stupid toys to keep people busy. More gaming stuff, more entertainment stuff, more social networking junk, like your car "socializing" with you. The gamification and jackassing of things, making even the most serious issues just a game, including thumbs-up buttons, and making behaving stupid the norm.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 08:34:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 06:45:07 amThe problem as I see it, is that theinterfacefor doing 3d solid modelling design, is .... horrible. In all the packages I've seen. It's way WAY too hard, there is a massive learning curve. You can't just sit down in front of a 3d modelling package and draw something workable, like you can in 2d. Even sketchup is hard, and that's worse because it's just not designed for modelling down at the 3d-printer size scale.I don't think that it has to be this way, I'm sure that there is an intuitive way to make a 3d modelling interface, but that nobody has come up with it yet, and unfortunately what tends to happen is that the people who already know how to use these horrible unintuitive complex interfaces don't understand why people can't use them - "it's so simple, you just click here, drag this, press CTRL-SHIFT-XYZ-F1, hop on one leg and sing twinkle twinkle little star, how could it possibly be simpler!".There is a close analog here with schematic capture and pcb layout software, for a beginner most of the packages just have hideous unintuitive steep learning curve ass-backward interfaces, they just don't work how one wouldintuitivelythink they should. There are a handful of "beginner" packages that do, Fritzing and Circuitlab (New Wave Concepts) being the main two I know of - these have clear visible intuitive interfaces which anybody can virtually immediately see how to use.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 08:47:39 am
content: In china its phablets (powered by $15 quad core ARM A7 3G MTK chips).I envision explosion of Google Glass clones in a ~year.Maybe ARM will introduce cheap SDR solution IP, more open than nvidia i500/intel SMARTi. That would enable cheap ubiquitous wireless connectivity on every single Android device.3D interfaces for most laptops are going to all the rage in a year. HP with build in leap motion will be the start of that trend. Once ~5% of shipped computers come standard with 3D input device we will see someone "revolutionizing" 3D CAD programs by embedding support for them.Btw Dave, there is plenty of small 3D scanners that you can put next ot makerbot, you just have to buy them instead of whining how lazy you are. There is even a finished Indiegogo for one. Yes, you need to know how to work with 3D meshes to do 3D meshes ....

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 09:45:05 am
content: Electronic cigarettes seem to be a big thing these days, and growing every day, despite FDA, other regulatory bans and tobacco companies wanting their piece of the pie.Although from an electrical perspective, they're fairly simple, except for maybe the variable wattage devices.

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 02:17:45 pm
content: We need some basic requirements for things to become popular.Cheap, previously it was expensivePractical/useful, or potential of being useful, previously things were seriously against it, eg It was too large (old computers) and now it's really really small and powerfulAvailable, before it was only in science fiction, and now it has materializedTrendy, previously it was only for supergeeks (and expensive and impractical)Microwave! You can heat up your meal in just few minutes, or under a minute if it's small. This time, it's integrated into your cell phone. Also with a thermal camera that is integrated into the same cellphone. Integrated thermal camera doesn't use any optics, it uses some amazing optics and prosessing is done in the main processor.

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 02:33:50 pm
content: I saw somewhere that there is a trend known as BYOPC (Bring Your Own PC) trending at companies. In other words, the employees use their own PC or laptop instead of the company supplying one for the employee. I'm not sure what I think of that. I'm pretty sure the big corporations will never sign up to that idea.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 03:00:04 pm
content: as with all "bandwagons" someone with no talent, that is totally incapable of coming up with anything original and has just a minimal grasp of the mechanics, will steal the "idea", and sell it for 400 million dollars.The open source community needs to have patent rights so slime balls can't cash in on everyone else's hard work.I can scan a 3d object, print it, and even make sand castings to pour metal parts from it in minutes.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 04:13:48 pm
content: Driverless cars/vehicles.Google's been putting some serious time into this.Also, the quality of products from local chinese design and manufacture places will begin to meet the quality of externally designed products - I recently bought a $250 chinese designed and built smartphone and I think it is pretty darn good - would compete with the $600 Samsungs and HTCs and $800(because apple don't have a $600 phone, hahaha) Apples no issues.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 04:21:14 pm
content: In the large scale side of what's to come, I can see stuff like IBM's Watson and artificial intelligence becoming a huge focus for those that can afford the technology. We're likely to see some pretty interesting developments in the next 5-10 years.

author: Phroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 05:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: DerekZahn on June 21, 2013, 03:21:30 pmFor me, it's a tool.I live in an apartment without a garage. Most subtractive manufacturing (read: drilling holes in stuff) is just to messy to play with at my kitchen table. So I use my printer to make stuff. Little plastic gizmos. Art. Custom Project Boxes.But I've developed adequate 3D modeling skills because it's the output side of the hobby I'm interested in. Like Dave said, without that skill a 3D printer isn't extremely useful.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 07:05:49 pm
content: The 3D printer thing will go nowhere. A bold prediction, but one I am sure of.My educational background is mechanical engineering, and I've been doing manufacturing for the last 13 years. For any part, there is always a best way to manufacture it. It depends on quantity, strength, material, surface finish, complexity of part, etc. I remember when CNC machines started to become popular, and some people predicted everything would be machined in the future and molding would go away... that didn't happen. Instead, CNC machines became niche machines. It will be the same with 3D printing. They will find their place, and carve out their niche. But it will always take more time to 3D print a part than to injection mold it. The laws of physics don't change, and 3D printers can't overcome them. 3D printing will never be faster than injection molding, just like CNC machining also never will be faster than injection molding. It will also never be cheaper, just as CNC machining never will be.So, personally, I think they will be like CNC machines. Useful for rapid prototyping of parts, but the idea that they are going to morph into some kind of star-trek replicator is silly. It's never going to happen.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 09:44:29 pm
content: CNC machines are certainly not niche, they have been used extensively in automotive manufacturing for at least the last 30 years.Most automotive parts have some cnc machining.I suppose that you mean the XYZ gantry router toys. These are good for prototyping, can't see these 'desktop' models ever being used in competitive manufacture.They don't have the resolution, accuracy, stability, reliability or speed to be a serious production facility.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 10:03:36 pm
content: Quote from: bilko on June 22, 2013, 09:44:29 pmCNC machines most definitely are niche. They have a place and they are used in that place... they are not a one-size-fits-all solution to manufacturing. I would bet my bottom dollar that a majority of automotive parts are not touched by a CNC machine.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 10:12:34 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 06:45:07 amThere you have your answer: a website where you can download 3D models!

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 10:17:41 pm
content: A cool idea would be some kind of jig which can use a 3D camera to calculate a 3D representation of an object. These must surely exist already. You have 3D depth sense cameras, add a jig to move the object and some control logic and you can do most objects.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 10:34:52 pm
content: I'm sorry, you are wrong. I worked in the automotive and aerospace industry since 1978 and have designed precision CNC machines for those markets since then.You don't think that injection molds are still made with a guy twiddling handwheels on a jig borer do you ? That went out early 80'sCNC machines are used in production and CNC machines are used to manufacture just about all other precision machinery.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 10:44:42 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 22, 2013, 08:47:39 amNote that I used the wordperfect.How good are these scanners?Can they scan a simple nut with the push of a button and tell the 3D printer to duplicate the nut? (as a recent TV show said would happen in few years?)I'm betting they can't, not even close.If they can't, they are nothing but niche play things.And a nut is not a complicated object, but is good example of something that someone at home with their 3D scanner appliance might want to produce.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2013, 11:50:20 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 10:44:42 pmThe problem I see with that is if the beam scans at 0 degrees and 90 degrees it will miss the threads inside the nut. Hopefully they've got that worked out.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 12:01:42 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 22, 2013, 11:50:20 pmThe technology exists, but certainly not at hobby level. You need an X Ray Scanner, for examplehttp://www.xviewct.com/industrial-ct-video/ct-capabilities-video.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 12:02:40 am
content: Quote from: bilko on June 22, 2013, 10:34:52 pmWell, considering I own a manufacturing company that makes automotive parts and has a shop full of CNC machines running as I type, I don't think I am wrong.I never said CNC machines don't make injection molds. I said that I disagree with your claim that most parts on a car have some CNC machining. They do not. Most parts are molded, formed, cast, etc. I would not say a molded part is CNC machined - I don't know of anyone who would refer to such a part in that way. I stand by my earlier post - if you took a BOM for a car, I would bet my bottom dollar that way less than half the parts were in a CNC machine at some point in their life. There are a lot of parts which are machined, but most? Definitely not.CNC machines are niche manufacturing machines. They have their place, but that place is not universal. I remember when CNC machines started to become popular in the 80's and people were predicting - just like some today with 3D printers - that these machines would change everything and in the future, parts would be made at the point of use. That never happened. CNC machines found their place as a niche in the manufacturing world - just like every other method of producing parts.3D printing will be the same - it will find a place in the manufacturing world, but those who predict that we will all be printing our own parts at home in the future, IMO, are wrong. They are ignoring the whole science/engineering side of manufacturing, which is the most important part. And that's why we don't have home CNC machines that we make our own parts with.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 12:08:33 am
content: Not only can any part be reproduced, but it's incredibly simple to do, what you probably won't be seeing is anyone sharing how it's done with the online community seeing as how they have a tendency to forget to give credit where it's due, quote any type of references or give back to the community, and they tend to suppress any information that they feel will make them money and ends up on their websites.anymore anything with the word "make" "maker" or "making" is a red flag for me.http://www.faro.com/faro-3d-app-center/stand-alone-apps/scenect

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 12:09:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 10:44:42 pmExcellent example.And when an engineer specifies a nut, he or she will take into consideration the material it is made from, what it's use and service life need to be, how strong it should be, etc, etc. The entire industry of manufacturing revolves around the process and it's cost, it's time, it's results, etc. Thinking that 3D printing will necessarily evolve to solve all those problems is like thinking that cars will necessarily evolve to reach infinite speeds.... there are serious challenges involved, many of which are hard limits on the laws of physics.A forged part is structurally different than a cast part, which is again structurally different from a machined part. If a part is of a certain material, shape, and thickness, it's usually made that way for a reason - by an engineer. And those properties that led to the design of the part cannot be emulated by a 3D printer. Not because the printer is shit, just because the laws of physics come into play, just as they do to differentiate between a machined part and a forged one.There's also the cost factor. Even if we had the technology to 3D print electronic circuits and in materials like glass and metal, those processes will never be as fast or as precise as making those parts on a large scale with large equipment.So, in the future (or even today), could someone buy a 3D printer and make their own cups or replacement trim piece for their car, or their own sneakers? Probably... just like 10 years ago someone could buy a CNC machine and make their own nuts and bolts and cutlery. It would take a big investment in time and money, and the finished result would be orders of magnitude more expensive than just going to a store and buying that part... so I don't think it will ever happen.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 12:38:22 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on June 23, 2013, 12:02:40 amI understand what you are trying to say, but which cast parts are not machined, drilled or milled ?Even exhaust pipes profiles are bent with CNC pipe benders, headlinings are trimmed with CNC laser machines. All engine and transmission parts are machined with CNC.That leaves light clusters, door handles, interior furnishings (which are cut by CNC)What have I missed ?Body panels ?I agree whole heartedly with your other post about 3D printers though, a gimmick product, OK for prototyping and visualising. We used to do that with CNC routers/machining centres 30 years ago and we had 3D probing facilities.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 01:00:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 10:44:42 pmIMHO the whole point is moot. Why would someone want to duplicate something? Wouldn't the object have been printed before so they can just load the design? Or maybe just buy the drawings for printing the object? Ofcourse you can scan natural objects but those always need tinkering to make them hollow and so on.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 01:40:45 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 23, 2013, 01:00:17 amSure. But do you really think that there will be a universal global database of every item you could possibly ever want in a ready format for your 3D printer at the push of a button.Ain't going to happen, not even, by many many orders of magnitude.That means 3D printers will remains a niche tool, and not become a universal appliance.Although I suspect that yes, they will become the hottest christmas toy in a few seasons time...

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 02:35:21 am
content: It's surprising anyone would invest so much money in anything that is already obsolete, and why would anyone buy one of those box 3d printers that look like a kid make them out of tinker toys when you can retrofit a desktop cnc machine that is a real tool for the same price or cheaper?http://www.ebay.com/itm/XYZ-MINI-Desktop-CNC-Engraving-Machine-Milling-Router-/310691794617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4856ac8eb9dlp projection and photopolymers:

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 03:52:52 am
content: Quote from: bilko on June 23, 2013, 12:38:22 amI think we agree - maybe just a matter of semantics. I agree that, without CNC machines, cars would not be what they are today. I just don't think most parts have CNC machining on them. If you are expanding "CNC machining" to mean all automation (including laser and die cutting, pipe bending, pick-and-placement of parts on PCB's) then I'd agree most stuff has been touched by some sort of automated machine, but I was referring specifically to CNC machining (milling and turning). It's an expensive process that has a place, but CNC machines never fulfilled their promise (or rather, the promises of some folks - probably the guys selling them) that they would become the universal makers of all things.We definitely agree on 3D printers though. You can't change the laws of physics... it will always take more time to place (either through melting and extruding or laser scanning or mechanical deposition) discrete particles to create a whole than it will to place the whole at once, as is done with injection molding. I think it's comical when people think these drawbacks will necessarily be overcome "somehow" - which is like saying we'll have cars that get 200mpg, and it will happen "somehow".

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 04:01:51 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on June 23, 2013, 12:51:15 amI think that's kinda the definition of "niche" right thereMy first job out of high school was working in a factory that refurbished turbine engine blades. They are amazingly expensive and critical in their design... I am pretty sure they are not made with SLS machines, unless something major has changed.All of the applications people point out of 3D printing have such serious drawbacks as to be essentially useless for 99% of tasks. I look around the room I am in now... there is a TV, my DirecTV satellite box, my couch, my metal/glass desk, my lamps, my clock, my doors, and door handles, my wood floor, my black anodized aluminum shelving, my XBOX360, my end table, my sneakers, my cell phone. None of it could ever be made with a 3D printer. Actually, looking around, I can't see anything that could be 3D printed, not now and not in the future. There are some parts of some things that could be made, but what would the point be of 3D printing a shell for my XBOX controller, then sending away to someone else to have the electronics delivered - and what, put it together myself?I can't understand why folks think this will take off?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 05:23:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 10:44:42 pmThe ones costing ~$3K can. Afaik thats the price point of new makerbot? But why would you want a nut? its not like makerbot has precision for it. You would need to go to Shapeways to print that nut. Or get a $50K selective laser sintering printer. Not to mention nuts are standarized so A it will be in library and B it will be in your parts drawer.You can get Makerbot precision with $400 scanner made out of webcam (and maybe a laser pointer).Quote from: EEVblog on June 23, 2013, 01:40:45 amUntil 3D input devices are common. Tony Stark lab is 1-2 years ahead of us amateurs (it is a reality if you work in industrial design for big company like BMW). Currently we got extremely rare and expensive Novint Falcon, Force Dimension Omega, Haption , Geomagic Touch, etchttp://kb.eurovr-association.org/index.php/HAPTIONhttp://geomagic.com/en/products/phantom-omni/overviewRevolution might come when someone takes Leap Motion and programs intuitive 3D paint for it.shitty old time approach = translate keyboard shortcuts to 3d input device:beginnings of innovation :first 3d doodles in autocadAutodesk is also working on it4to20Milliamps first one is an ENGRAVER, not a router. Good luck doing anything in metal with itSecond one uses very expensive resins.Corporate666It will take off same way soldering irons taken off. Its not and wont be the next iPhone, it is just another tool for making stuff. Its like your mum telling you she has no need for a soldering iron, she just buys electronics.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 12:32:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 23, 2013, 01:40:45 amWhy not? To me it seems a logical step. If there is demand it will be filled. Just like people share their personal lifes on Facebook they share their personal items on Thingsbook.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 04:21:28 pm
content: What part of makerbots are junk and you can retrofit a real cnc machine to be a 3d printer for less money do people not get?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 05:30:07 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on June 23, 2013, 04:21:28 pmBTW,they cashed out for 403 Million...

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2013, 06:17:20 pm
content: Can the Makerbots replicate themselves ?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2013, 11:05:35 pm
content: Replace 2012 with 2013

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2013, 11:22:25 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 23, 2013, 05:30:07 pmAll they got was stock in another tech company. Stock that they probably aren't allowed to sell. Can you imagine if they were allowed to and nobody wanted it? They gave the shit away for a toy and diluted the other shares in the process.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2013, 11:59:22 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 23, 2013, 05:23:34 amI completely agree. It's always going to be a niche tool... for people that need it, it will be invaluable. For the vast majority, it will be useless.I would love a low cost and functional 3D printer. We make automotive parts and there are many times that we CNC machine a part to test fitment. Depending on part complexity, fixturing can be a real pain in the ass. It would be wonderful to 3D print these parts to check fitment, and not have to spend many hours machining and fixturing just to test how things fit.I just don't see what use the average person has for one? They can only print very limited materials at a very slow speed with pretty bad resolution. There are physical limits on resolution and speed (a drop of plastic can be only so small and plastic will cool only so fast), so I don't think they will ever be fast enough to compete with other manufacturing techniques. Plus, how many things are made of 100% plastic? I can't think of much that is just pure 100% plastic and could be 3D printed. And it's not like we're ever going to be able to 3D print wood or glass or metal.Interesting times, for sure.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 12:46:57 am
content: Actually 3D printers which print objects in (stainless) steel already exist. Several of my customers have 3D printers like the Makerbot and use them to print all kind of models and plastic tools even though they have state-of-the-art CNC machines at hand.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 03:19:30 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 25, 2013, 12:46:57 am3D printers which print in metal are infinitely more niche than even those that print in plastic - and the delta in strength/usefulness between metal 3D printed parts is even greater than with plastic parts.The only reason to 3D print plastic parts is when cost and finished quality aren't too important and/or quantities are low and you need to get something rough done in a short time.Nobody is using 3D printers are a production tool to make parts, except perhaps in some very niche applications.3D printers have their place. As a production tool? Never happen.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 07:04:55 am
content: 3d printing in wax for lost-wax metal casting is a good use of the technology

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 07:22:33 am
content: Quote from: smashedProton on June 25, 2013, 07:04:55 amExactly!As I suggested some posts back,it would allow small manufacturers to make metal parts more economically.As I said then,Sculptors could also make use of this technology.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 08:45:57 am
content: Corporate666 funny you mention it because you can print in woodhttp://hackaday.com/2012/09/21/3d-printer-filament-made-of-wood/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 10:52:28 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on June 25, 2013, 03:19:30 amLook for 3D printer parts on Ebay. Many are 3D printed! So production with 3D printers is already happening.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 08:13:15 pm
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on June 24, 2013, 11:22:25 pmObjet had a similar merger with them before ... it's investors could cash out for real after 6 months. As for diluting the existing shares, that might be true ... but dilution won't make the stock worthless.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 09:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 25, 2013, 10:52:28 amThat's like a snake eating itselfWould make for a great Dilbert cartoon though...Worker: "Boss, we need 3D printers!"Boss: "Why?Worker: "To make 3D printer parts!"Boss: "Why do we need 3D printer parts?"Worker: "To make 3D printers, of course!"

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2013, 04:16:24 pm
content: Ouroboros....I have been watching Red Dwarf a lot recently, want to watch the new series, but bought the box set of all of the old ones.......

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2013, 12:50:45 am
content: All things created will eventually be destroyed, except plastic stuff it will last in the landfills for eonshttp://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/windows-8.1-the-3d-printing-os/http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-kinect-sdk-updated-with-3d-scanning/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2013, 01:00:24 am
content: PLA which is often used for 3D printing is bio-degradable.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2013, 01:06:47 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 28, 2013, 01:00:24 amsure out of site is out of mind....newspaper doesn't even degrade properly when there's no oxygen.http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/the-myth-of-biodegradability/?_r=0

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2013, 02:33:20 am
content: I'm going to guess the next big money maker will be in the 3d market, with as much plastic as will be getting thrown in the trash because people that bought a "makerbot" can't print 5 things without it screwing up, you could open a proper disposal companyor you could start inventing new types of materials to print with like this stuff:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_clayIf I'm going to spend any money at all on a commercial 3d printer I will be getting one that will print with many different kinds of materials.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2013, 03:22:52 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on June 28, 2013, 01:06:47 amNot so sure of that--gardeners use newspaper all the time--it degrades just like any plant matter.If you want plastic to degrade,just leave it out in the sun in some job where it needs tonotdegrade.I guarantee it will be crumbling in a couple of years!By the way,I don't like Terracycle's employment ideas at all -----They employ someone,give them a fancy title,& don't pay them a cent till "the deal is complete".No wonder it didn't work out in Australia,those sort of employment conditions scream "Scam!"to most people in this country.OK,some Sales jobs do have similar conditions--but they don't ask as much of their people.