[Off Topic] - Is it "a STM32"  or  "an STM32"   -    Remember one vote   ha ha - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 01:29:15 am
content: DisclaimerI am proof reading a STM32 manual and I am stumped on this.The author writes "an STM32" and I want to write "a STM32"On the web I see both. Generally "a" in blog context and "an" in ST's (the company that makes the STM32) contextA Wiki article says it is the way it sounds not the way it spells. So I am thinking this must have something to do where I live.If I get a good vote, I will submit the results to the authorThanks (and to those that voted Option 3 - I understand)

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 01:47:27 am
content: "An Ess Tee Emm 32"It's gotta be an "an"!

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 01:54:16 am
content: "An" is easier to pronounce in a fast fluent speech. Just try to read a full paragraph out loud and you will see.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 02:08:54 am
content: "An" is proppa legit' English. "A" is a bit retard like, u know what I mean?

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 04:20:30 am
content: If you were going to try to pronounce it like we would an acronym (despite its lack of a vowel) and say it as 'stem 32', then I'd go with 'a'. But if you say each letter (Ess-Tee-Emm 32) as I was inclined to do when I first saw the question, then definitely go with 'an'. 'An' is what I voted for.-PatEdit: fix typo

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 am
content: HiThe correct use in terms of proper English language is to use 'a'This link explains the correct use of 'a' and 'an'http://m.wikihow.com/Use-%22A%22-and-%22An%22-CorrectlyDo not take what people write in blogs and forums as correct English!

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 08:06:45 am
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 amYes, except that STM32 isn't a word. If the individual letters are named, it begins with a vowel sound. 'S' is pronounced as 'ess'. A vowel sound. Therefore, AN ess tee emm thirty two, according to your link.-Pat

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 08:10:07 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on July 06, 2016, 08:06:45 amand check the citation offered to see if it supports the claim being made.Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 am

author: MatthewEveritt
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 11:16:53 am
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 amNo, you can only trust wikis!I agree with 'an ess tee emm' and 'a stem' both being fine for conversion, but for written documentation I'd have to go with the more formally correct 'an ess tee em'. Unless you explicitly state something different people should read STM as an initialism (because it's not a valid English word - assuming your text is english), which has the soft ess sound.

author: AndreasF
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 11:37:36 am
content: In this case definitely "an" because most people pronounce the individual letters and the pronunciation of "S" starts with a vowel sound.The really tricky one in electronics is LED: "anell ee dee" or "aled"?

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 11:52:32 am
content: Also I'll tack on another little rant to this: No one speaks in BBC English anymore where 'historic' is pronounced 'istoric' so can we stop writing 'an historic occasion'?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 12:27:28 pm
content: I'm always bugged by "an hotel". I think we can trust the OED on this. Their answer would also imply "an STM32" to me, assuming your saying the letters.http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/a-historic-event-or-an-historic-eventOf course, "a SQL Server licence" opens up a whole new can of worms!

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 12:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on July 06, 2016, 12:27:28 pmEss Queue EllSame rule applies, vowel sound.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 12:51:38 pm
content: I was just trolling so I'd better explain for those who didn't get it.My point is that a lot of people would say "sequel server", so in that case it "a" would be correct. How it should be said has been hotly debated in the past!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 01:05:42 pm
content: I've never gone the 'sequel' route - it's always been S.Q.L. with me.The form of the indefinite article used then follows whichever variation of these you would speak.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 02:41:57 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 amTry reading that page you linked to again. Specifically, under "Using An Correctly", Point 2, second bullet:Quote

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 04:12:54 pm
content: Or "An honor" or "a honor"

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 04:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: AndreasF on July 06, 2016, 11:37:36 amI've always saidanell ee dee, pronouncing each letter. Though for field effect transistors, I almost always pronounce the acronym, calling it a 'fet'.I'm inconsistent between types, but consistent within them.One that bugs me is people saying 'an LCD display'. You're saying, effectively, liquid crystal display display. I think it stems from LED display, which actually IS correct since you're saying 'light emitting diode display'. I've heard people refer to LCDs as liquid crystal diodes before.Ok, enough of a tangent, I'll shut up now...-Pat

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 05:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on July 06, 2016, 04:44:37 pmDon't get me started on Redundant Acronym Syndrome*, or RAS Syndrome if you will**PIN Number is the one that irks me the most!* As a fully certified pedant, I don't like this catch-all term, as it fails to differentiate between acronyms and initialisms. An acronym being pronounced as a word (NASA), an initialism as individual letters (NHS).** Yes, that was deliberate!

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 06:08:23 pm
content: VIN number, CRT tube, ATM machine <imagine stick poking smiley here>-Pat

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 07:52:39 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 amThat's not correct in this case.Simple rules of English apply. Generally it's "a" if it's before a word beginning consonant letter however there are exceptions to this rule.If anabbreviationstarts with a "vowel sound" (regardless if the first letter is actually a vowel) then it's preceded with "an". If you're referring to anacronym, then the same rule applies as if it were a word.It's generally accepted that if a word sounds/reads oddly, then the opposite determiner can be used.So the correct way of writing and pronouncing it would be "an STM32".Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 07:07:09 amI agree with you on that point.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 08:46:02 pm
content: HiPoint taken everyone. I was hoping to slink away quietly with my tail between my legsI really did not know the exceptions to the rule, I guess I was not paying attention at school when they taught this, maybe I was day dreaming about electronics

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 08:52:43 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 08:46:02 pmDon't worry! It took me a while to remember back to school and now my brain hurts. :-)

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 10:05:56 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 06, 2016, 08:46:02 pmLOL - no worries. I generally just read it aloud to myself; whichever one 'flows' better is likely to be the correct choice.-Pat

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 05:18:02 am
content: Precisely. When it doubt, read it out!

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 01:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on July 06, 2016, 02:41:57 pmTrue, but STM32 is not a proper acronym, it is essentially a code word, so it's simpler to just treat it as meaningless and preface it with "a"I know some chip codes are supposed to mean something, but really that's just a conceit.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 03:57:47 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on July 07, 2016, 01:59:41 pmIf I were to hand you one of the chips and say "I can't make out the first character in this part number - what is it?", would you look at it and say "It'sa'S'", or would you look at it and say "It'san'S'? If the latter, which I expect is what most English speakers would say, then why would you not do the same in text?When I read things, to some extent I'm reading them aloud, but in my head rather than vocalizing. "A ess" is simply dischordant, and doesn't flow well, even in text. It's like hitting a bump in an otherwise smooth road, and I personally find that sort of thing to be disruptive when reading something. (You'll probably be unsurprised to hear that I find a lot of things on the internet painful to read!!)And MBA (the example used above) isn't an acronym either - just like our part number.FWIW.-Pat

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 04:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on July 07, 2016, 03:57:47 pmSay you had a technical document template, something like "insert a XXXX into the interface PCA",would you bother to rewrite that for anything with a vowel sound?Sure, pronounce it how you like, but I can't see why we'd have to consider following a grammatical rule for a non word.English usage pre-dated the idea of written or spoken part references.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 05:01:49 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on July 07, 2016, 04:15:19 pmIt would depend on how many corrections or changes might be required. If not a huge number, then yes, I likely would. If it's a large document with a ton of changes and many different vowel-sound-started terms then no, likely not. If it's a large document with only a few different things starting with vowel sounds but they are in many places it should be simple enough to do a 'replace "a <thing 1 that starts with a vowel sound>" with "an <thing 1 that starts with a vowel sound>", and repeat for <thing 2> and <thing 3>, etc.However, in THIS case, we're dealing with an STM32 manual, so the term in question is STM32, not something variable which may or may not begin with a vowel sound. Given that it's the same term, why NOT be grammatically correct when writing it?-Pat

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 05:07:35 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on July 07, 2016, 04:15:19 pmI would correct the template, yes. Incorrect grammar is an immediate tip off that a boilerplate text was used. Similar snafus commonly occur in software, too, where no logic was added to use the proper article, inflection, etc.