How thievable are oscilloscopes? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 08:58:15 am
content: Hi,Just taken over a workspace in London. Wondering whether to leave the Rigol 40MHz (£90 many years ago) scope in there or not?I deffo wont leave my laptop in there.Its (workspace) got a Yale lock.....and main door security could be "tailgated".Provious users may have got duplicate keys done.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 09:34:59 am
content: Go and ask your local police what the risks in the area are. They can also advice on what measures to take on prevention.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 09:41:24 am
content: They are 82.5% "thievable" in some parts of London, but only 68.2% in others, and 24.9% in the best parts.The obvious solution is to cart anything valuable (including soldering iron) back to your flat every night. Make sure your landlord doesn't spot them and think you are doing soldering for business purposes.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 11:40:31 am
content: Of course anything can be stolen especially in a big city. The low life's don't know or care what they steal.The police will do nothing.Jon

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 11:45:11 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 09, 2022, 09:41:24 amHaving had 11 oscilloscopes thieved from my personal possession in London I conclude that your statistics are accurate. Last one was only last week. Was just sitting in the pub with it and turned away for a moment and it was gone. Police didn’t even call back it’s so common these days. Long gone are the days of nicking bikes.Someone is now sitting there in their scummy flat enjoying that Tektronix 465B and I am deprived and angry about it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 12:38:09 pm
content: A 40MHz scope is not going to be worth much. It might not even be worth chaining it to the bench.Quote from: tggzzz on July 09, 2022, 09:41:24 amUnless the area has next to no security (which doesn't seem to be the case given the description), the risk of accidental damage during transport would outweigh the reduction in risk of it being stolen. Also, the landlord isn't going to care if you're doing business stuff at home (particularly after working from home has become more popular) as long as you're not disturbing the neighbors or damaging the property.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 12:41:29 pm
content: Not so sure about that. My landlord has a clause about storage of certain classes of chemicals for insurance purposes. That pretty much excludes things like fluxes, etchants and solvents which is a big bulk of chemical required for EE work. Even my ex wife, a hairdresser, is in violation of those clauses. Of course there’s the “no commercial uses” clause as well.Of course these things only become and issue if (a) you get caught or (b) the place burns to the ground.Arguably my 20 year old Henry vacuum cleaner is probably more of an insurance risk due to the explosive X2 capacitor in it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 01:30:38 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 09, 2022, 12:41:29 pmThe intent is to prevent using the space for storing drums of such chemicals, in the small quantities used for hobby work, one could easily argue that it poses less risk than, for example, a can of cooking oil spray.QuoteThe intent is to prevent disturbances to neighbors due to noise or smells, or introducing more traffic than the area is designed for by bringing in customers. If the setup is for use by only one person, one could always argue that it's for working from home.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 01:32:13 pm
content: I’ve worked in the insurance sector. They would use it instantly to void the policy.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 01:52:12 pm
content: If you do leave it there, throw an airtag in it

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 01:59:24 pm
content: Now AirTags are definitely nickable!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 02:00:41 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 09, 2022, 01:30:38 pmThe intent is to provide justifications for not paying out if a claim is made. No more, no less. If a claim is made, the insurance companywilltry to find a way of not paying out.Example: I was rear-ended in a queue of cars. I pulled forward and stopped, the person behind pulled forward and didn't stop soon enough. Thefirstthing the claims assessor did was to check the depth of tread on my tyres. If insufficient, the car would not have been legal and therefore he wouldn't have needed to look at the damage done to my car, let alone assess it.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 04:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 09, 2022, 12:41:29 pmWell, you could probably be prosecuted under the Firearms Act 1968 for mere possession of a "section 5 prohibited weapon".Quote

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 04:54:57 pm
content: In my experience they're negatively thievable. Despite my best efforts I seem to have slowly accumulated oscilloscopes. No one has so far tried to retard this by stealing them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on July 09, 2022, 04:48:22 pmUnder this description I could be prosecuted for possession of a 9 year old

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:12:35 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 09, 2022, 05:02:22 pmStrangely my daughter applies that in reverse.I'm unrepentant. "Where ere you be / let the wind blow free / For t'was the want of that / that kill'ed me".

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:28:32 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 09, 2022, 02:00:41 pmI had a very similar occurrence. Once I was rear ended with the company car and I had to file a police report. In Brazil it is mandatory to have a small (5kg) fire extinguisher on the car, but rarely anyone remembers it even exists, let alone do the proper maintenance on it. When I arrived at the Police station, the first thing the cop asked was to look at the extinguisher - he was trying to do exactly what you mean: catch me on an infraction to get some cash on the side. Fortunately the company maintained the car in tip top shape and the extinguisher was ok.On a similar note on the insurance side: a friend of mine was involved in an accident where his (big) truck hit another car wrongly taking a left on a crossing (light was green for my friend, and he has a dashcam). Since both cars involved were from the same insurance company, they tried to "double dip" and assume fault to both parties. A fight ensued and my friend was finally vindicated with no fault at all. Ah and that is also why he disables the speedometer on the dash cam as well: if it is 40.5mph on a 40 he would open this door for litigation.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:39:48 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 09, 2022, 05:02:22 pmYou probably should be. When I remember what I was like as a 9 year then I have to conclude that it's an irresponsible thing to let a 9 year old out onto the streets to create havoc.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:43:24 pm
content: Interesting how this went from getting a scope possibly stolen to farting

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 06:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 09, 2022, 09:41:24 am

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 06:41:53 pm
content: Perhaps as a deterent to theft, add a Biohazard stickerThen add Monkey PoxThen add the name of your favorite politician??

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 07:42:04 pm
content: The last thing thieves would do is to look at stickers.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 07:47:22 pm
content: Take your oscilloscope to a low-rent pawn shop and ask how much they'll give you for it. That will tell you how 'thievable' it is.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 08:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 09, 2022, 12:41:29 pmI think it would refer to a certain amount of chemical, if one wants to be pedantic most household products have dangerous chemicals if the quantity and concentration were high enough.My school chemical lab had sulfuric acid, but intentionally diluted to a point you had to be wanting to do harm to do harm with it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 08:45:24 pm
content: No the clauses are very open. If the fire investigator, that they appoint, finds anything traceable as an accelerant you're fucked even if it's a bottle of meths under the sink.This is why you need to be able to afford to replace everything you own, not rely on insurance as a fallback. Alternatively, avoid owning stuff.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 08:53:29 pm
content: Yes, you'll own nothing and you'll be happy. =)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 08:57:25 pm
content: nail varnish remover?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 09:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 09, 2022, 08:30:09 pmMy school's wasn't. Fun when poured over sugar. Must try that with the sulphuric acid drain cleaner I bought a decade or two ago, in B&Q.We were also given Na and K toplay withobserve the different relative reactivity with water. I keep my Na in a metal cupboard, together with potassium permanganate sodium chlorate and powdered Mg. The cupboard is is my asbestos and cement garage.We were warned that, when disposing of KCN down the sink, to make sure we didn't allow any acid down the drain.Yes, we did watch Hg swirl around Petri dishes. Hypnotic.Yes I did stink my parent's kitchen out with H2S.They did keep the radioactive sources locked up. Shame my friend's fob watch was noticeably more intense (and was sent to Harwell!).For the more interesting stuff told in a delightfully droll style, seehttps://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-work-withExamples: chlorine triflouride ("Sand won't save you this time"), FOOF (yes, di-oxygen di-flouride), hexamethylenetetramine which you makemore stableby mixing it with TNT ("there are six nitrogens and six nitro groups, the first assumption must be that these are all bonded to each other. I mean, come on, leaving the nitro groups attached to the carbons is forwimps. So that means that someone, somewhere, has perversely made a poly-N-nitro cage compound, as if they'd been dared to cram the most bond energy into the smallest space.")I don't see how kids can have fun in school science lessons anymore.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 12:35:25 am
content: About 23 years ago I worked for a company that went from the typical battleship-sized 7000 and 11000 series Tektronix mainframes to the TDS lunchpail style scopes.Yes, they started disappearing.So it doesn't matter where or when or who, stuff will disappear.

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 01:32:58 pm
content: Thanks,Shame Airtags are £29https://www.apple.com/uk/airtag/...wish there was some other cheaper thing, like maybe an NFC tag i wonder....even though you only detect it if you "scan" itLike an RFID tag you get on jars of coffee insupermarketshttps://www.rfidshop.com/30mm-inlay-tag-mifare-ultralightnfc-ev1-1255-p.aspThe readers cost a fortune though.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:07:01 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on July 09, 2022, 08:58:15 amDoes your Rigol have a carry handle? If yes... there's your answer.Risk assesement 101 - if the building is not yours, the locks are not yours and the 'security' guards are on upto minimum wage, consider the space unsecure. Even if if they boast 24hour CCTV coverage, valuables will walk.I once worked in a secure bank location somewhere in London where, we could not bring cameras onsite for security considerations. Phones were locked in lockers. Yet, expensive items disappeared off desks overnight. Would you believe it, but the cheapest is best contact cleaning company was staffed with light fingered illegal migrants.Carry home or insure accordingly.Edit: I should add, even if you do manage to track down a stolen item to the local cash converters store, it is highly unlikely the police will have any interest in investigating.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:11:15 pm
content: There are small GPS trackers that respond to SMS (or can periodically send position to a server or your phone) which are intended for cars and the like. Main problem is power, but you should be able to arrange for a battery to be recharged whenever the scope is powered. The trackers typically have a USB input, so if the scope has USB it's just a case of plugging it in.Not vouching for this one, and it is 12V, but it's typical of what's out there:https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09MKL8NZJ

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:23:29 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on July 10, 2022, 02:07:01 pmThis reminds me of an incident with my ex mother in law. My nephew’s bike was stolen and ended up in a cash converters. This was about 15 years ago before they gave a crap about doing ID checks. Phoned police and they did nothing so she just walked in there and took it. Staff called the police who didn’t do anything either

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:33:50 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on July 10, 2022, 02:07:01 pmI didn't realize that contact cleaning was such a significant business that it can keep a specialized company afloat. Not surprised that they pay minumim wage or even less. I usually do my own contact cleaning, preferably using KONTAKT WL solvent.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:36:29 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on July 10, 2022, 12:35:25 amThe house next to me had an estate sale a few years ago. There was an old planter in the front yard which wasn't specifically for sale. It had been there as long as I can remember when I knew the man there who passed away. The planter had three rusted legs and the top part was old fiberglass, which was so old it had holes in it. I think their plan was to throw it away - worthless junk.However, over the night on the weekend of the estate sale it was gone in the morning. I asked the daughters who bought that old POS.They said somebody stole it over the night, probably somebody who had visited the sale.And the OP asks if an oscilloscope could be stolen?

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:43:16 pm
content: Your scope could be stolen from your workplace or your lodgings, of course.I lived for a while, as a student in the 90s, in shared accommodation [terraced house] - The house was burgled by someone (with small hands) gaining entry from the loft space which was shared by the other houses on that side of the street. I had my Fluke 23 dmm stolen, but my Hung Chang 20MHz scope was left behind. It did have (and still does, as a reminder) a small set of grubby finger prints on one side, where it was lifted from its cardboard box storage.Losing tools by theft has been fairly common in my experience of lodging and working in northern England.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 02:57:47 pm
content: If anyone breaks in, they are likely to steal the scope as a technical looking thing, in the absence of any more likely looking portable valuables, and then probably throw it away, when they find it's not so easy to sell. The disruption to you could be huge and well over the value of the scope. Carting it home every night would be a pain.You could buy a similar scope and keep it at home, just in case, and leave this one at work. Then if this one was nicked, or just let out the magic smoke one day,you'd have avoided a lot of carting it back and forth, and have a spare at hand. I assume you could find a suitable scope for about £100.

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 03:04:44 pm
content: Paint it pink and apply Hello Kitty stickers so that nobody will want it.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 03:23:29 pm
content: Wait, so you have rented a "workspace" and don't have like a door to lock or something? I wouldn't really be worried about break-ins inside of an office building.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 03:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on July 10, 2022, 03:23:29 pmWell, the original post is notthatlong... If you keep reading, you will get to the "Yale lock", "duplicate keys" and "tailgating through main security" part eventually.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:16:47 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on July 10, 2022, 02:57:47 pmI wonder how much effort it would take to build a smoke bomb disguised as something valuable with a mechanism to make it go off a few minutes after being stolen.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 10, 2022, 04:16:47 pmLittle effort, but you might fall foul of anti-mantrap legislation. It doesn't require much imagination to realise that such a device could have lethal consequences if activated in a confined space where someone, possibly an innocent bystander, would have breathing problems, or a closed vehicle where it could easily cause a fatal crash, again possibly involving innocent bystanders. Such smoke devices used to be used for "cash in transit" containers but have been replaced by dye packs, probably for exactly such reasons.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 10, 2022, 04:16:47 pmAll you need is a battery, and old computer case, a smoke bomb, a bit of electronics with a tilt switch. Or a bit more fancy use a system shops are using for anti theft, where the alarm goes off when you walk out of the door through those special gates.Edit: Cerebus beat me to the punch and took a bit of the fun out of itBetter yet use a dye pack like the banks use and make it go off when the perpetrator walks out the door

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:31:08 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on July 10, 2022, 02:57:47 pmYeah, one day in the 90s I came back to my shitty apartment just as someone had broken in, in broad daylight. He was in the process of grabbing my Commodore 1581 disk drive in its box but got distracted trying on all my pants and I guess once he heard the door he bolted out of there, forgetting the large-ish box.But a 1581 in the '90s was probably worth 25$. But it was in its box in great condition.On the minus side he did take off with my high-end Sony Walkman. On the plus side, he left his old pants in my bedroom.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:31:28 pm
content: I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Kensington style locks. A lot of more modern test gear has the slot designed for one of these to be fitted to. Fairly effective against casual opportunistic theft, but like most theft deterrence not effective against a determined, prepared, professional thief.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:47:54 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 10, 2022, 04:16:47 pmhttps://www.smokecloak.co.uk/Had one. Two, actually. Fitted one to my office when I was building it and for the test firing I stood just inside the open office door. Within seconds I could see a thing and had to grope to the consumer unit and flick the breaker off blind.In the end I decided not to use one, but only because it's a constant source of heat and there is far too much wood around to be comfortable. Same for the garage - amazingly effective but not really advisable to have a heat source around petrol.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 10, 2022, 02:33:50 pmI really need a bigger mobile device screen.Seriously, these cleaners had been trafficked from Nigeria on tourist visas. It was in their own self interest to take as much as they could before the UK border agency sent them packing. The trusted cleaning company had contracts right across London.ContRact cleaners, security and catering are a significant point of failure in any physical (or cyber) defence yet, are barely mentioned in a security risk assesement. There is a notion that these guys are paid so little that if caught stealing, they cannot afford to be sacked. So they won't. They are also too stupid to know what is valuable. I once came across a Latvian cleaner who was doing an MA in space based avionics. Not the only smart student with a Henry vac out there.A problem too with popup hot desk office rentals. You have zero idea of anyone else who has access to the building at any time. BYOD but be prepared to take it home.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:07:51 pm
content: Totally agree with that. We had some cleaners steal laptops a few years back. Of course we fired the cleaning company instantly and hired another one. Same fucking cleaners turned upCleaners are now fully salaried background checked.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:26:33 pm
content: It depends on the oscilloscope, whether those who know the value and are of a dishonest disposition see the oscilloscope and think they can take it, without getting caught.A new security manager where I work stated we must start to start locking the storeroom because equipment might get stolen. We have some very expensive pressure calibration equipment, which cost arount 20k each. I said it's unlikely anything will get stolen because it hasn't happened in the company's 70 year history and few people who are aware of the value of the instruments are the type to steal them. I told her, if we left a piece of test equipment worth 20k at the local shopping centre, with a £200 bike next to it, both unlocked, the bike would get stolen, not the instrument. The value of the bike would be obvious to anyone, but not the test equipment which is very niche.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 10, 2022, 05:26:33 pmFamously when Bill Hewlett found a store room locked, he used bolt cutters and left a note requesting that it not be locked in future.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 06:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 10, 2022, 03:38:45 pmI still don't see the issue. Not sure what a Yale lock is, but can't he just swap in his own cylinder?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 07:16:47 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on July 10, 2022, 06:50:35 pmIt might be that he is not allowed to do that.But if it is a proper office rental it might also be that the key can not be copied without permission (certified keys) and he does not have to worry about previous renters to still have the keys.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 07:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on July 10, 2022, 06:50:35 pmI get the impression it's a rough part of town and he doesn't have much faith in the building security. He might be able to change the cylinder, but depending on the door, that may not be much use against someone who comes with a case opener.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 07:35:46 pm
content: Locks only keep honest people honest.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 08:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 10, 2022, 05:59:38 pmThe plan is to have a combination lock.We did lock it at one point, but it was because cheap cable ties were being stolen, not expensive equipment. We gave up locking it, because only one person had the key and people got fed up with having to ask him for it. Now we just accept the cable ties will get nicked and just reorder them, They're cheap enough not to worry about. The code for the combination lock will probably be written down somewhere discrete.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 08:57:35 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 10, 2022, 05:07:51 pmAn issue for minimum wage slaves is they often have to pay for their own CBC before a contract company hires them. Pay for a CBC with a loan from the hiring company. Laptop and device theft is a perenial problem. Even devices bound to a corporate Apple ID vanish; only to reappear on ebay listed as "does not boot" or "cannot login". I think people take them just to pose with an Apple logoed (dead) device.Someone suggested using a Kensington lock. Those are great provided the slot is cut in mild steel and, the strap is not attached to the desk with a pound store plastic hook. Seriously, I have seen a 'professional' fitter do this. K locks are great for use as fall arrestors otherwise, try Mig welding the 'scope to the desk - and make sure the desk is wider than the door.