Repair a radiator on a tractor - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 09:19:03 pm
content: Hey there,I got multiple leak onto a radiator, I am still waiting on a new radiator.But I'll to fix before it reach freezing temperature hence my question:What kind of power I need to solder this thing ?I'll like to solder the radiator with either a soldering iron or a soldering gun.The radiator is on a tractor about 40hp made out of brass.I know someone that pulled it off onto a tiny radiator with a 32w soldering iron (his was about 1 cm thick single layer with removed fins.I got right now 25 and 32 w soldering iron, and a cheap chinese hot air station that idle at 500c setting at 230w iirc.Thank to everyone.

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 09:55:20 pm
content: By design, the metal in a radiator conducts heat really well. So it is difficult to get enough heat into a single location to make it hot enough to melt solder.Radiator shops use a propane torch, or more usually, an oxy-acetylene torch. You might get by using your hot air station.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 10:02:26 pm
content: The hot air station might have a chance, but generally electronics equipment doesn't have the oomph for that sort of thing. Soldering only works if you get the metal hot enough to melt solder, and the very nature of a radiator is going to be spreading out the heat you add to the area quite rapidly.The usual approach is to treat it much like a plumbing job. Brush the metal clean, acid flux, high-lead solder and gas torch, followed by cleaning again. That's after draining and removing the radiator, of course.In your case, since you're planning to replace it anyway, I'd suggest trying JB Weld or an equivalent.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 10:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: gg64 on November 07, 2020, 09:19:03 pmYou can solder with a regular gas burner sold in any tourist store.

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 10:48:00 pm
content: Ok, thank you guys for helping me.So I got a jet lighter (butanne in French),also ox ace but I need to learn how to use it that make it risky.I don't know yet if I am going to give JB weld a go, I don't fill confortable with it. I rather weld for now.I am considering buying a soldering pistol to help me (should have enough room), 2 questions:-Should I go for a Weller 100w (8100UCK) (known good brand ?) or a Holzmann LP 700 with 200w ? (I don't know any English link sorry :https://www.amazon.fr/Holzmann-Pistolet-souder-500%C2%B0-LP700/dp/B01DM6ZJ86)I am really not sure those would be helpful to be fair, I might need an high heat flow to heat the radiator to make it stick.-For the solder 60/40 tin/lead is good ?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:02:22 pm
content: Heating up a (tinned) lump of copper with a flame and using it as a soldering iron bit works well. I've used it for patching copper water heaters. The thermal mass of the copper (with plenty of solder) is more effective in getting heat into a small concentrated area than hot air or a flame - You don't want to risk damaging other solder joints in the area.It's effectively going back to the earliest form of soldering iron...

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:07:15 pm
content: I've soldered quite a few radiators and it can be done with a solderingiron, but I can't imagine doing it with a solderinggunno matter how powerful. You need a huge thermal mass for an iron to work. Like this:https://americanbeautytools.com/Soldering-Irons/19The usual way is with a torch (flame) and butane would be very poor, plain propane would be the absolute minimum and oxy-acetylene is overkill in the hands of a novice--you need just the right torch nozzle and a bit of skill as the oxyacetylene can cut your radiator to small pieces in short order. Pro radiator guys do use oxyacetylene, plumbers often use oxy-propane or oxy-MAPP setups, oxy-MAPP is good for certain types of brazing as well.What I used to use in a field environment for repairs was single-cylinder (no oxy) MAPP gas, acid paste flux and plain solder, 63/37 if you can find or 60/40 if you can't. For clean, new work, especially plumbing, I use oxy-MAPP, paste flux and lead-free silver solder (Sn 97/Ag 3)

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: gg64 on November 07, 2020, 10:48:00 pmForgot to add: use borax for better soldering, then rinse.

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:11:16 pm
content: I like it the thermal mass copper solution, hard to mess up, just need to not get it to stick on the solder.I forgot that I seen this :I need to find/make some.I got a 49% lead from someone and I got the acid flux.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:15:54 pm
content: A soldering iron or pistol or any type familiar to electronics will be no good for this.You need a gas torch (e.g. propane or butane - no need for oxyacetylene level of heat for soldering), or a hot air gun should do it. But a painstripper type hot air gun, not an SMD soldering hot air pencil. You can buy a cheap hot air gun for peanuts. Just need some plumbing flux and some solder as well. It's easy if you're used to electronics soldering. Just need clean metal, flux and heat. Is it just leaking from an existing seam or has it split open from freezing?What tractor is it? Old tractors is one of my main hobbies.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:17:17 pm
content: I agree, a soldering gun won't do the job. Voice of experience. I've also had poor luck with JB weld. If you need to get your tractor working this weekend you will have some chance of being OK, but you will be repairing the repair before long. And Murphy works here. While the JB weld won't hold well enough to stop the leak long term, it will hold well enough to be very difficult to remove in preparation for the real repair.I have had good luck with propane torches and obviously your oxy-acetylene rig will do the job, but will require care to not overheat and melt the radiator cores. It will help if you have a rosebud tip.Another option which may be available to you is the throwback gasoline (petrol) torches which were often used to heat the old school soldering irons mentioned earlier.

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:24:01 pm
content: > What tractor is it? Old tractors is one of my main hobbies.A Volvo bm 400.I got a smd station like this:https://www.ebay.fr/itm/YIHUA-858D-Rework-Soldering-Station-Hot-Air-Gun-Desoldering-Repair-Machine-220V/303288023206but it idles at 230w at maximum settings.And yes I am fairly familiar with soldering with the station, done a smartphone, batteries charging clamps (<- really hard and annoying to do, because me being an idiot/not enough power) but I got it eventually. And many plastic repairs.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: gg64 on November 07, 2020, 11:11:16 pmIf a space rocket falls in Pakistan, they will repair it and fly it into space.

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:32:25 pm
content: I use the tractor everyday, hence once I take the radiator out I better be sure to do it quickly.I don't move around for long though, it does not heat up enough to use the radiator until it will eventually if I forget.But I can do without it but that is going to be tricky and really unconfortable.I am concerned that the hoses are going to break if I try to do it. :/

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 12:00:47 am
content: If the hoses are old enough to worry you, it's probably time to replace them as well. Clamps too if needed.

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 12:03:33 am
content: That why i planned to buy the full hose kit, may with a water pump as well.

author: jdragoset
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 12:36:06 am
content: If all the leaks are corrosion pinholes then fixing one or two will just show up numerous others, pointless fix.Try a small amount of Aluma-Seal or Bronze-seal or just a little ground black pepper until you the replacement arrives.Leave the pressure cap off, and check and refill often.Although they run under pressure at full load, you, as the operator, have total control over that.Light load, light use, live with it until the replacement arrives.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 02:11:13 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 07, 2020, 11:17:17 pmJust a reminder that these old gasoline blowtorches can be hazardous under the best conditions. They work by pressurizing a liquid fuel and letting it spray out the top; leaks are not uncommon. Getting sprayed with gasoline while using the torch is not a good day and you generally don't know if it is well sealed until it does leak.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 11:35:04 am
content: A big 100 watt stick soldering iron might do it but a common propane torch like that which would be used for copper plumbing will be better. A little more heat is available with propene instead of propane.The radiator shops I have seen use oxygen-propane or oxygen-propene. Oxygen-acetylene is overkill for low temperature soldering.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 11:57:37 am
content: A standard propane torch with standard plumbing flux and solder works perfectly.I've done it many times, some are still known to be successfully in operation, decades later.You don't really have a hope of soldering one with an electric iron/gun unless it is a small nick in one tube or something. If it's near a manifold end, I don't think you have any chance of success.Epoxy might work as a very short term, temporary fix but it will never stick well enough to survive through more than a few thermal cycles. Enough to get one home if you were stranded on the highway or something, perhaps, but it would never last and would make a proper repair latermuchmore difficult since you'd need to clean all the epoxy off somehow.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 02:21:57 pm
content: I didn't ask, nobody did, but an important question is: Where is it leaking on the radiator? And, is it due to corrosion or physical damage?

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 05:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: jdragoset on November 08, 2020, 12:36:06 am^^This is it. Baby it until your new one arrives. Let me tell you from experience, trying to repair an old radiator is a no win situation.First you need to rot out the radiator with a base such as hot caustic soda to clean all existing gunk and corrosion. Many more leaks will appear when you do this. Otherwise, if you don't do this, the solder will not stick properly. If you must continue to try and solder, you need to use the torch method with acid core solder. The iron will not heat the pieces evenly like a torch.Hope this helps...

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 07:29:48 pm
content: >And, is it due to corrosion or physical damage?Well mostly physical even it is really old.My dad got the nice idea to pressure wash it because he felt like it. 150-200bars in its face.Lucky for me, the grid in front that are supposed to protect for fibers and debris where installed, mitigating the effect.>Where is it leaking on the radiator?4 leak right underneath the top tank.1 in the middle that went on for weeksThe 4 leaks where probably cause by me with an air compressor on the radiator.So an update:I used a heat gun 2000w and a soldering iron 32w. So preheat the around 2inch / 6cm circle with the heat gun for 10 seconds. Then I am soldering with a hampton paste (acid paste) and 49% lead. All that after scratching with a minidrill and a tiny torx screwdriver and sometimes sandpaper.I found by accident:To get extra clean, you can fill up with water and make the water to boil with the heat gun where the air is supposed to flow.Note:Man, this was my first time repairing a radiator, the brown color for a while running water through it.I might take photos tomorrow before putting it back to show close up of my noobness. I learnt all I need finally after the 3rd hole.Right now it is sitting opened and fully filled for the night to see if anything spill out where it is not supposed to, and tomorrow air compressor test.

author: geggi1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 07:54:44 pm
content: Use a gas burner, good solder with lead and a liquid fluxing.Ive only done it once than I used hydrofloric acid as the flux.In the past i have also used concentrated white vinegar (35%) as soldering water because its also simpel to neutralize.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2020, 07:59:53 pm
content: Quote from: gg64 on November 08, 2020, 07:29:48 pmIf you're air testing, just be sure you don't pressurize it above the normal 10-15 lb operating pressure and blow it up in your face. That would probably ruin your radiatorandyour day.

author: gg64
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 07:21:13 pm
content: Ok, I put it back together and used the tractor today, I fixed it under a day, not bad for a first timer job IMO.I didn't do the pressure test but, i blew compressed air before even doing to the repair. So probably the weak holes blew up.I didn't take any photos yet, but I will eventually because I need fix the protecting front.Also no leaking in sight, I never been so happy about a dry radiator.Thanks you guys for the tips.

author: arjen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 03:42:08 pm
content: Sorry for bumping it up, but my Kubota's radiator is leaking. Where can I find a service to fix it?

author: hneve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 03:48:20 pm
content: After about six months of using it, I had the same problem with my Kubota L2501. I took it to an officialKubota serviceplace, and it was a great choice. They knew exactly what they were doing because they specialize in Kubotas. They said a small crack was causing the leak, which is pretty standard. They told me they'd fix it by adding a new part that's exactly right for my tractor. They were clear about what needed to be done and reassured me they'd get my tractor fixed up quickly.