Mid-Range Electronics Lab Setup - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 04:41:49 pm
content: Hi,I'm equipping a mid-range (price-wise) for a hobbyist oriented electronics lab.Here's my shopping list so far:JBC DIt-1B but with the DD base (dual power port) soldering station for spade bit/pencil iron and micro-tweezers.Rigol 1000z or 2000 series oscilloscope (100 MHz)Fluke 87V DMMHakko 808 Solder SuckerHot Air Station... no idea on which one yet.Other *stuff* that I haven't even realized that I needed.My budget is not limited, nor is it infinite.It's all a bit bewildering for a complete newbie such as myself. So many choices and I don't want to pay for *features* I"ll never need, nor do I want to invest in underpowered tools. Both of which would be just a waste of resources. I've watched Dave's "Setting Up a Electronics Lab" video, from a couple of years ago.I don't have any particular projects in mind at the moment, maybe just start with the simple ATX PSU to Variable Bench Supply project. Then move up to a micro controller (PIC/C#) to build a logic analyzer and wave form generator. With an eventual goal of developing micro robot swarms, and then THE WORLD !I'd be grateful for your input and criticisms on my equipment choices or "lack of".-Thanks,Johnp.s. I understand there are some resellers on this forum. As this shopping list gets finalized, if you want to send a quote on any or all of these items, it'd be greatly appreciated.OK, let's say a budget of $6000 +- 1K (USD) 50% ($3K) on my shopping list and $3K for unknowns and consumables. Sound doable?

author: Clint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 04:53:31 pm
content: That's a nice list of kit, my advice would be to set you budget and then spend 50% on things you can think of, you will soon spend 50% on things you had not thought about and consumablesResearch every purchase !!!Best of luck with it

author: Chipset
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 05:03:06 pm
content: I would actually suggest you wait with buying most of that stuff.As you clearly stated you are a newbie, and while there are plenty of people who can tell you what should be in an electronics lab, figuring that out for yourself is part of the learning experience.I started out with just a $10 multimeter given as a birthday present in my very early teens, from this I soon realized I needed a set of hand tools to take things apart, thus a set of screw drivers, pliers and cutters was purchased. I then realized I needed a soldering iron to enact repairs, and so I bought that.Every new tool or piece of equipment I purchased was preceded by a realization of a need and followed by a period of learning about the tool and how to use the tool.I guess my point is that in my experience learning electronics there's been a lot of learning to be had in acquiring tools as you realize you need them, and skipping that will leave you poorer (knowledge wise) for it.Your list looks good though, I would just like to advice you into buying the things as you need them. Start with the basics, soldering iron and multimeter. Mess about with building up simple projects and see which piece of gear you need the mostand most importantly WHY you need it, thus also what features you need in it, before you settle on which to buy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 06:27:21 pm
content: I'd get two small (in size and weight) power supplies, a function generator and a benchtop DVM. If you want to experiment with robotics start there instead of building your own test gear.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 07:05:26 pm
content: Don't forget a bench, anti static mat, hand tools.I'd also suggest keeping your eyes open for some items to repair. Even if it's for free it's a great way to get your hands dirty. Just don't promise to fix anything get stuff that's ready be be turfed anyway, that will take the pressure off of the repair.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 07:57:48 pm
content: Couple of extra DMM's (don't need to be super expensive either). Perhaps a Brymen BM257 and maybe a Uni-T 61E (~$200 for both if in the US) to allow for simultaneous measurements.Hand tools as already mentioned (start with a good set of cutters, pliers, and basic electronics screwdriver set; can add tweezers and so on as you need them).Couple of PSU's (might even want to take a look at Elenco, as they offer a kit if you want to solder it together yourself).http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Triple-Output-Power-Supply/dp/B0002DT0GUSolderless breadboard can be very useful.http://www.globalspecialties.com/premium-breadboards/proto-boards.htmlParts (salvaged, kits, whatever; there are threads in EEVBlog that can help with this).Rubber ESD mat & grounding point for wrist straps.Good Test Lead Kit, preferably one that uses silicone insulation (much less tangled up rats nest than PVC insulation, but is more expensive; figure a well equipped electronics oriented kit will cost ~$100).

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 08:51:58 pm
content: $3000 USD should get you almost everything you need to do almost anything. If you read my $150 lab setup you will see that it is possible to setup a lab for almost nothing. For your budget here are my suggestions for some of the equipment:Brymen BM869 with PC cable $340 shippedandBrymen BM257 with PC cable $175 ShippedorAmprobe AM-270 $90 shippedorDigitek DT-2843R x2 $90 shippedBest to get two reliable and good meters at least to cross check each other and to do multiple measurements at the same time.Rigol DS2072 and hack it $850 shippedI do not have experience with the JBC station you listed but from all reports it is great.You need a good multi-output power supply or 2 or 3 single output ones. The list for possible models for this is rather long and varied but don't go for cheap Chinese $200 all in wonders.I am not trying to push Rigol, but there are a couple of reasonable function generators in their line. The DG1022 can be purchased for $400 shipped.Test leads, lots of them, with croc clips, with BNC, with grab hooks, banana plugs, and combinations of these, BNC to to other types, and BNC T adapters....A DMMCheck Plus from voltagestandard.com to do sanity checks.Magnifiers, handheld and headmounted or stand type.There are lots of discussion here on hand tools, do a scan through them to glean the better ones. Wiha, Swiss, etc....In the end, if you basically follow Dave's video, you will get what you need and have a good lab. Any changes from what Dave recommended would just be personal choice or taste.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 09:31:03 pm
content: Definitely depends on where you are headed (analog, digital, learning, testing, buidling, etc.), but sometimes it's a discovery process and one path leads to another.Lots of good advice here including the notion of spending part of your budget and then taking a pause because you are likely to discover more things you would also like to acquire.A power supply and a second DMM are a couple of items that will probably get added to your list. Test leads and accessories of various types will consume some $. Several breadboards, wires, and various parts/components will consume some more.Just one comment on your specific target gear: by all accounts JBC is fantastic, but $650 or whatever that model goes for might be a lot for a soldering station unless you're pretty sure all the rest of the stuff you are going to need will fit within your budget. Before I spent over $150-$200 on soldering stuff I'd make sure I had a power supply (or two, or one with 2-3 channels), a second DMM, and maybe a function genction generator, along with a scope.http://www.tequipment.net/WellerWESD51.htmlTwo other possible items to consider: a resistor decade box and maybe an electronic load.http://www.tequipment.net/ElencoRS-500.htmlThe voltagestandard.com products are definitely something to consider - they will help you quit wondering if it's your other test equipment or your caculations that aren't adding up.If you are headed toward digital you might want some of the serial decode/MSO-type options on the scope, and or a logic analyzer. (Many opinions here as to which USB logic analzers are the best.)For $3k (or less) you should be able to build a very nice setup and learn a lot. Enjoy!PS, if you have any interest in digital and software I'd get one of these along with some of the accessories:http://www.adafruit.com/products/50- only represents 1-2% of your $3k budget

author: microwave68
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 25, 2013, 11:59:24 pm
content: JBC is a good choice for Soldering equipment , I am using one for years !There are two things I like about JBC , the first thing is the heat up and recovery time which is much faster than anything else on the market , the other thing is that the station goes to sleep when you put the iron in its holder !The recovery time really makes a difference when you are soldering on ground planes that "suck away" the heatOn the hot air my recommendation is a Hot Air station like the Hakko 850 or similar Chinese clones , has enough punch to desolder QFN Packages and use for shrink tubing and cheap , you can get different nozzles for it too !if you are mostly planning on working with smaller SMD parts get a older PACE Sensatemp station with a Hot air pencil , you can also get a solder sucker for it, or if you got the money to spend buy a WELLER WRS Series station , I got a WRS3000 here in the lab that has a pre heater hooked to it as well as a HAP hot air pencil , really nice but not cheap !On the scope , don't waste your money on RIGOL , there are a lot of nice scopes out there that are good in performance , LECROY generally in my experience makes the best scopes hands down followed by the TEKTRONICS digital phosphor scopes !

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 12:50:31 am
content: WOW folks, I didn't expect such a quick and overwhelming wealth of responses. Many thanks for all the great pearls of wisdom. What a neat (yea... I said neat) group of folks here.I need the DMM/leads now as one of the leads from my old Fluke 350 ($5 cheapo) has lost it's head. I think the puppy chewed it off. Damn collies see a long skinny black thing with a head and assume it's a snake or about to become one. Which was the genesis for this shopping spree. In for a penny, in for a pound. And my El Cheapo solder pencil is more frustrating than useful. I got a bunch of old mother boards, a few microwaves, bread machines and various appliances that friends and family have donated for my spare parts inventory. Hence the need for a decent solder sucker (Hakko 808).I'm going to wait on the scope/logic analyzer/wave generator until I really need them, by then, I'll have a better idea of my true needs. Thanks for that advice!I've got plenty of decent hand tools (from working on my airplane engine (Lycoming IO-360) that my mechanic and I rebuilt a couple of years ago).Electronics for me, is a learning, testing and design opportunity. I've been a Software guy since the days of Core Memory... yea.. those little magnetic doughnut thingys. Dave, you can dope slap me now, as I love assembly language, but these days I prefer C#. Assembly programmers are more idiot than savant. I thrive on learning new *stuff* and have been keenly devouring this forum for the past few weeks (NEWBIE!).I'm leaning toward robotics. I HATE to do house work and want a army of ants to do the job, but they are SO DARN hard to train, hence the robotic swarm idea. Will have to build in some kind of defensive system to keep the dogs away from them.... hmmm don't old DVD drives have some powerful lasers in them?Definitely, a second (maybe third) $50-ish DMMs. I've vacillated between a bench version and a mobile one. Maybe one for the bench and one mobile. The Brymens look interesting. I'll check them out. And the voltagestandard.com products.The resistor decade box is great idea and will go on the list. For a magnifier, I've hot glued a couple pair of 3.0 reading glasses together, overlapped, so it makes them bi-focal... works great!I greatly appreciate all the ideas and pearls and will definitely research all the hardware options mentioned.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 03:41:33 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on August 25, 2013, 09:31:03 pmTheresistorandcapacitordecade boxes by Gerry Sweeney might also be worth a look.Quote from: Electro Fan on August 25, 2013, 09:31:03 pmThe downside is that they require regular recalibration to maintain their accuracy. So it's not something I'd buy because I might need it in a few years' time. It's mainly of interest if you bought some equipment that you don't trust the accuracy of (used or a manufacturer you don't trust, like Uni-T) or have indications that some equipment you own is inaccurate.Quote from: Electro Fan on August 25, 2013, 09:31:03 pmAn MSO will easily blow that $3k budget if you're not careful, I think a USB logic analyzer should be fine. An MSO doesn't replace a logic analyzer anyway.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 04:58:30 am
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on August 25, 2013, 04:41:49 pmYou'll also need a function generator, a all day power supply and a programmable one maybe, a pc, an another dvm, a mangfier lamp orsomething similar...A really good solder, good flux, good soldering paste

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 05:06:35 am
content: Quote from: Chipset on August 25, 2013, 05:03:06 pmThis, IMO is the most precious & valuable advice in this thread.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 06:19:22 am
content: Start with the low-tech stuff first. Those that are of higher tech shall become cheaper and better while you are learning up and building up your workshop.Banana cable, crocodile, etc - you can never have enough, and get the good quality ones.Soldering ironsBuilding up is the easy and fun part, making good and effective use if where the value is.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 06:32:01 am
content: Having two or more multimeters and an oscilloscope are not luxury items if you have a budget of $3k to start. If you want to do robotics then they are essential kit. A USB logic analyzer, a good one, will be very very helpful too.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 06:44:18 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on August 26, 2013, 06:32:01 amAny advice of a really good USB logic analyser that decode CAN, serial and other common .....

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 07:21:39 am
content: Unfortunately, I have no direct experience with the available USB analyzers. There are threads here about different ones. There seems to be no real consensus...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 07:56:49 am
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on August 25, 2013, 04:41:49 pmmany things are missing, but instead of purchasing small things, i would purchase 1 big thing.... & concentrate on learning that.an Atomic clock or a top of the line Scope...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 11:24:57 am
content: Quote from: eurofox on August 26, 2013, 06:44:18 amThere have been several threads on this, searching for site:eevblog.com usb logic analyzer on Google should turn up quite a few. The options seem to boil down to: many channels/fast sample rate, large memory or decent software, pick 2.Some notable models:Many channels / fast sampling rate, decent software:Intronix LogicPortLarge memory, decent software:Saleae LogicLarge(ish) memory, many channels/fast(ish) sampling rate:Zeroplus LAP-CHantek 4032L logic analyzerOpen-source, many channels:Open Logic SnifferAll have been discussed on this forum.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 01:51:38 pm
content: Don't forget about the professional logic analysers from Agilent or Tektronix.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 01:54:19 pm
content: A used Tek/HP/Agilent LA might be an option. Make sure to get the pods and leads, these are often rare and/or expensive. I don't think Tek/Agilent have anything new that would not take up the majority of the budget.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 02:24:11 pm
content: A big factor in setting up a lab is how much space you have.Old well made equipment (such as analogue scopes) represent excellent value for money but are physically big.I am very limited for space so have had to go for more modern (though still 7 years old) digital equipment. I think top priority are a good scope, a good double linear power supply, a good soldering iron and a good dvm/multimeter (I went for a desktop 5 1/2 digit off e-bay).Getting a double power supply which allows different modes (tracking, parallel, series, isolated) allows you to cleanly power your experiments without having to worry about the power supply causing problems and also the current limiting is important. Though it is good to build your own, they are not that expensive to buy.Having a scope just makes everything much easier as you can see what is going on. The problem though is prices and features vary hugely, so until you've settled on what you really want/need (such as 4channel vs 2, digital inputs/decoding, high frame rates for glitch hunting and so on) it might be best to start with a very cheap basic one or a nearly free analogue model (if you have the space). My priority was 4 channels and as high a bandwidth as I could afford (350MHz), your priorities will probably be different - bandwidth is expensive and if you don't need above a 100MHz it is not worth paying for extra.One thing that slightly surprised me was how much of my budget seem to go on things like building my workbench and fitting it out with good qaulity mains sockets and also things like cables and plugs and adapters. They all seem to be individually quite cheap but soon mount up if you get carried away when internet shopping!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 03:04:43 pm
content: Just test leads, plugs, clips and adapters gets surprisingly expensive. It's easy to spend $100 on that stuff without going over board. A good quality RG58C/U cable with BNC connectors may cost $10 each. Decent hardware like tees, terminators and elbows might cost a few bucks each. Banana leads cost a few bucks each, and you need several in different lengths. Banana clips, grabber hooks and SMD grabbers each cost at least a few USD each.This also highly depends on what you do. For example someone into RF will need a much wider range of coaxial cables, connectors and adapters. Someone in power electronics might want heavy duty alligator clips, while these are pretty much useless for tiny low power analog designs (how am I supposed to clip these to my SOIC op-amp?).As with other equipment, I would start with the basics and see what you use most. Some of the basics:- 1-2x 50 ohm RG-58C/U cable with BNC connectors, 3-6 ft.- BNC tees, a 50 ohm terminator, female-female couplers.- BNC to alligator or mini grabber hook leads- Jumper leads with banana jacks on both sides in a few colors- Jumper leads with alligator clips or minigrabbers on each side. Note that the cheap ones have terrible current handling ability.- BNC to banana jack/plug converters, I like the female BNC to male banana and male BNC to binding posts kind.- alligator clips with banana jacks or banana plug to alligator clip leads- mini grabber hooks with banana jacks or banana plug to alligator clip leads (I prefer these to alligator clips for PCB work)I tend to buy quality hardware from companies like Pomona, HCK or Hirschmann. Franky (iloveelectronics) also offers some of this stuff in decent quality.Another perspective on the what you need in a home lab isthis document by Jim Williams. It was written almost twenty years ago, but some of it is still relevant.

author: larry42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 07:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: JuanPC on August 26, 2013, 07:56:49 amWTF does the OP need an atomic clock for?A 2/4ch 100MHz scope is fine to start with, and save some money for some kind of LA that has CAN decode options...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2013, 10:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: larry42 on August 26, 2013, 07:19:34 pmfor the soundcard jajajajajajaQuoteDon´t save, live fast, die young jajajajajaja