Desoldering and Soldering Station Advice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 12:41:58 am
content: Which unit do you prefer for a desoldering station and what device do you prefer for a soldering station. I am looking to replace my current setup and want to get something which is higher end. I am looking at a ZD985 Desoldering station and a Hakko FX-888D soldering station. Or I could get an all-in-one if something suits. Perhaps all in at $300-400 Cdn dollars. That's about $100 US right now

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 01:36:36 am
content: I have had my own Weller temperature controlled soldering station for 50 years and used a few more at work. They still make and sell the same one today. The temperature is fixed by the tip part number and there is almost no electronics unlike some "Mickey Mouse" stations that use a light dimmer adjustable power circuit to mess up the heating. Because my soldering station is never too hot the tip lasts for years. If I solder to something that is huge then it automatically turns up the power to stay at its fixed temperature. I can leave it turned on all day and it simply reduces its power to prevent overheating.Idling cheap soldering irons get too hot so the tip corrodes away soon. When soldering, the rosin in the solder immediately turns into charcoal and pcb copper lifts off. When soldering longer than a few seconds with a cheap iron then it gets too cold.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 11:38:07 am
content: I have the ZD-985 and it is a useful tool. However, I wouldn't try to use it for anything but hobbyist use. You can't really go wrong with the FX-888D. I have its bigger brother, the FX-951 and am very happy I made the splurge. I also owned the predecessor, the 936. Make sure you buy the Hakko and tips for it from an authorized dealer, just too make fakes out there. I personally would stick with separates. There is always some sort of compromise with all in ones, think TV/VHS/DVD combos, if the player failed, you couldn't still watch TV if you sent the player out for repair as the TV went with it.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 12:26:46 pm
content: Start with the Hakko FX-888D and get a few genuine tips they start at about $5.While I don't recommend going to this extent this gives you an idea where to start:Knife T18-K (good for wiping, drag soldering and removing bridges)Hook T18-BR02 (bridge, or hard to reach spots)Small Conical T18-S4 (hole poker)Chisel long T18-DL32 (for tinning wires)Chisel large T18-S3 (for high thermal mass)Chisel T18-D08, T18-D16, T18-D24, T18-D32My preference over the hoof, they work well for through hole and several smd techniques.Hoof T18-C2, T18-C3, T18-C4Brought these to try out and see if I liked them, I really prefer chisels but I've used these a lot over the years. Can be used for drag soldering. though the T18-CF tips are designed more for the task.(I have several handles it's easier for me to run a few tips at the same time)Seriously don't buy a desoldering gun till you know how to use desoldering wick and a desoldering pump/solder sucker. But if you must, save up for a decent one if you intend to use it a lot.In a lot of situations the desoldering gun is useless. A hot air station on the other hand is extremely useful, you can rework and desolder almost anything with it but it's main advantage is smd work.

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 02:24:14 pm
content: Lots of good advice on here. I am probably going with the Hakko FX-888D for a soldering station as it seems to be the one most people prefer. I will take Shocks "tips", pardon the pun and get extra tips when I order it. I see a lot on Amazon. Are the majority of these fakes and does anybody know where to get a real 888? I am located in Ontario, Canada and of course, I don't want to pay more for it than I should so eliminating the markups would be beneficial.As for desoldering, I am proficient with a pump and desoldering wick but I would like to get something a little quicker. The hot air station may be a solution. Does anybody have a favourite here? I see AOYUE come up a lot. Any particular model if this is the chosen one?

author: xyrtek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 02:55:01 pm
content: I posted about that brand you mentioned here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/two-questions-about-aoyue-int2703a/msg904526/#msg904526Like audioguru mentioned a good weller station will outlive most of us. I will add that most importantly it just works.You can even get some of the NOS tips if you look around or can get to a hamfest.EDIT:http://www.ebay.com/itm/WELLER-TIPS-for-TC201-/272190786684?hash=item3f5fd5cc7c:g:8M4AAOSwxcRW-YUC

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 03:26:58 pm
content: Amazon does sell counterfeit Hakko I know that. Visit Hakkos website or buy from a reputable dealer.Not a bad price here but their tips seem a little expensive. I dunno it's hard to work out whats cheap in nuks. tequipment.net hakkousa.com and frys.com are really the comparison USA sites you should check against.http://www.be-electronics.com/HAKKO_Soldering_iron_HAKKO_FX_888D_p/fx888d.htmShould still be able to find cheap hot air stations on Ebay. $50 USD is a good price to pay compared to hundreds for a Hakko and the like. They do the job but remember it's price vs quality. One of the best things about these stations is the hot air nozzles are extremely cheap.There is an open source controller firmware project on the forums here which may sway your choice as well.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/youyue-858d-some-reverse-engineering-custom-firmware/

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 03:36:45 pm
content: That's actually a very good price for the FX-888D from B&E electronics.Active Tech (active123.com) is another Canadian Hakko authorized dealer. They have a couple of stores in Ontario (Toronto & Ottawa). Their 888D price is higher than B&E but the few tips that they have are a bit cheaper than B&E.

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 04:24:24 pm
content: Active 123 is no longer in Toronto. Go figure. They closed up last August. I will have to search around or maybe I will just get the Weller unit.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 04:51:02 pm
content: I use a clone the ZD-915 (an older version of the ZD-985), and a Hakko FX-888D with an assortment if original T18 tips.For hot air, I use a Dremel Versatip 2000, which is far from being a hot-air reworking station, but gets the job done and does a lot more. It is one of the tools I use the most. It also works as a soldering iron when I need to work on mains or with the mains off.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 05:45:16 pm
content: Another vote for (in the order listed):Soldering Station = Hakko FX-888D with genuine tipsDesoldering = wick* + pump (Edsyn DS017)Save up for a hot air station* Use quality brand name consumables, such as Chemtronics, Techspray, and Multicore/Henkel (for wick). For solder, Kester, AIM (American Iron & Metals), Multicore/Henkel, Techspray, Alpha Metals (Cookson), Indium, and MG Chemicals. For liquid flux, MG Chemicals sells hobbyist friendly sized bottles of their Rosin 835 as it's cheaper than disposable pens (type = RA, sizes are 125ml & 1L).

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:01:36 pm
content: I'm good with buying a hot air station. What brands do you suggest? If it makes desoldering faster and easier, I'm in!

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: Adam60 on March 30, 2016, 06:01:36 pmDo you plan on working with SMD? If so, the hot air station is definitely a must. Otherwise just postpone it until you really need it.If all you do is through-hole components, then a ZD-985 is enough.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:23:37 pm
content: QuoteI think it was Active Surplus (not Active Tech / 123) that closed up last August? Active Tech still lists a Toronto location:http://www.active123.com/Locations-ExtraPages.htmlSMD Hot Air station -- a lot of people buy Atten 858D and other very similar inexpensive offerings from eBay. But beware:Some have their mains wires connected and/or fused incorrectly, etc. (see below)Many are 220V units so be sure to get the right versionREAD THIS THREAD before buying any cheapo Chinese product, hot air station or otherwise:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/Many here are comfortable buying these products off eBay, and have the knowledge to inspect + fix any safety issue before first use.Others prefer paying a bit more to not have to deal with these issues. SparkFun sells basically the same unit, under their own brand name, so should be better from a quality assurance standpoint:https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:40:08 pm
content: I would like to do some SMD work eventually. I have done a little but hard to do without proper equipment. Good catch on Active123. I must have misread that. I have a few friends up that way so maybe I will have them pick one up for me on the weekend.Okay I have the Atten for hot air station, any other brands I might want to look at? I may go through Amazon for this, any issues?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:54:22 pm
content: Quote from: Adam60 on March 30, 2016, 06:01:36 pmWhat will you be using it on besides desoldering and heat shrink?What kind of budget would you be willing to spend?I ask, as I went looking for a balance suitable to a hobbyist bench that wouldn't break the bank or end up with junk and ended up with a Quick 861DW (not that impressed with Aoyue after seeing photos of the inside).This posthas some links to photos of the innards of various stations that might be of interest (can show you the differences between a Hakko's insides vs. Quick and some others). Post just above has photos of the innards of an Aoyue 857A++.It's a not so well known brand here in the US, but it has features and technology comparable to that used in the Hakko FR-810 (MSRP is $749; other well know brands are more $$$), yet this one only costs a fraction of the price as it currently sells for $235 (here). Tech wise, it uses a turbine pump rather than a diaphragm; features would include setback or auto-off when the hand piece is placed in stand, ..., has an intuitive UI, easy to change heating element (entire stainless assy.), and quick change nozzles (friction fit, so no screw clamp to mess with). Yet unlike most Chinese station brands, it's actually well built inside*.* There's been some complaints from a couple of people lately of cuts in the hoses & shoddy metal case work (2x units of the 861 to the same user & 1x of a different model), but it appears to be a bad batch rather than the norm (last letter determines the plug & transformer; US = DW, UK = DA, EU = DS).

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 07:01:50 pm
content: My budget for the soldering/hot air/desoldering is roughly around $300-400. I figure that should get me some decent equipment. I will have a look at your messages and look through the inner workings of these units.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 08:37:51 pm
content: The first question is :What do you need to desolder?I highly doubt an average hobbyist actually has any practical use for a vacuum desoldering station. Unless you happen upon a specific requirement. Simply salvaging/repairing a random part here or there will be done faster with a quality Edsyn desoldering pump with no warm up time and zero bench space.Unless you have a high volume of boards to rework in a batch process, you can just leave the desoldering station alone, IMO. Even despite buying one specifically for such work, I still find a desoldering pump to quite effective and fairly comparable in efficiency when bench space/hose clutter, warm up time, consumables, and maintenance/cleaning is added to the equation. To put it bluntly, I don't think a desoldering station can possibly even pull its own weight outside of a high volume production environment.Regarding desoldering pumps, I would have said Edsyn Soldapult is the cream of the crop. It's probably the most popular and copied pump, and there is a good chance there are a couple of these hanging around any serious production environment. But after a couple plus years of side by side use, I am now crowning the Soldapult III. It works just as well. But it's smaller, the plunger is easier/smoother to depress, the noise is less jarring when it trips, the tip can be rotated as needed. And after emptying it, the thing only goes back together one way.I'd invest in a decent soldering station. I love Hakko, myself. And if you're interested in SMD, a simple hot air station. And save up for a stereomicroscope. Under really good lighting and magnification, you might be surprised at what you can do with a regular soldering iron with flux and the right tips.

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:35:26 pm
content: I have looked into the Hakko FX888-D and it is now on order from Active123 out of Ottawa. The Toronto store is officially closed and nowhere to be found.As for desoldering/hot air etc, I am semi-retired and just lazy when it comes to electronics. I like toys and this looks like one I want to have. So I am looking for the best bang for my buck and not afraid to spend a few bucks if it does a decent job. I am not doing production runs and I hate working with bulb suckers, vacuum pumps, desoldering wicks etc and just want the simplicity of turning something on that goes swoop, and I am done. So hot air station/desoldering station, whatever, as long as it does a nice clean job and is fairly priced.As for the stereomicroscope, I am happy with my Andonstar USB microscope/laptop/monitor setup that I have. I may be losing sight but I can blow it up big and see what I need to see.I think the next thing I wasnt to look at is a good digital scope. Rigol 1054? I have three analog scopes now but I need a good digital one. Then I need to learn how to use it. That's for another thread

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:42:56 pm
content: Quote from: Adam60 on March 30, 2016, 10:35:26 pmI think you will be surprised by how much maintenance a vacuum desoldering station needs. When they are working, I think they work a lot better than a Soldapullt, but there's definitely a hassle factor.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:44:13 pm
content: QuoteThis is why I don't use a desoldering station. If I had too much extra bench space that was never being used, it might be different. I don't. I wouldn't use one even if it were free. Same with a reflow oven. I have both, and they're collecting dust in a closet. The kind of usage you're describing is exactly where I think a desoldering station will never pull its weight. As in not even worth the space it takes up.Even if you don't do any CAD before hacking together a circuit on protoboard, you will still find it is easier to not screw up in the first place. A desoldering station isn't a magic eraser for mistakes. It takes work to maintain. And it takes a lot longer to heat up than a soldering iron. And it has a relatively bulky, stiff hose, compared to a soldering iron.

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:47:48 pm
content: So in your version of a perfect workbench, what would you use for desoldering. Say you wanted to remove Cpu's or IC's feom a board?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:53:36 pm
content: It totally depends on the part and the board.Sometimes it is easier to use a Soldapult. Sometimes it is easier to use hot air rework station. Sometimes it's easier to use a 1200W heat gun. Sometimes it's easier to use a big blog of solder with a regular soldering iron.The desoldering station is really effective for a very limited and repetitive batch task of pulling lots of multi-lead thru hole parts, IMO.

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 11:00:31 pm
content: Okay, that is what I am looking for. I like to work on televisions, vintage stereo eqt., power supplies etc. Desoldering station sounds good. Maybe hot air station later.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 11:21:29 pm
content: Quote from: edavidI find that the HAKO 474, with the short heating throat, is great to clean and use. The "pencil" versions are a total PAIN, and have a higher failure rate.The HAKO FM204 is a POS, very long throat, always clogs and you have to replace the entire heater each time. But none of that compares to the -JBC abortion ! Worst desoldering station I've ever bought.If you use a lot of through hole components, my opinion is that a good one is a MUST. Hot air stations can also be problematic. First, yu start of with a huge array oftip shapes, so you direct air only on the pins, which is GREAT in theory, but it turns out that it's noty that simple. Often, the solder is NOT where the tip directs it,and if you move it one way, the other end heats the IC (square packages are the worst), and that is what you were trying to avoid (unless you don't care if thechip is saved). So then you switch to single row tips, and quickly move around all 2 or 4 sides. That sort of works ok, except when they use high temp solder or glue.So then you hold the IC with tweezers and apply slight upward pressure. You can spend years screwing around with different methods :-)Other flood the IC with very low melt solder, use a broad air flow to melt it and tweezers to pull up the IC. That actually works well.So the bottom line is, how many, how often, what variation of ICs do you expect? Many labs have all 3 tools, plus the low temp solder etc etc

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 11:38:19 pm
content: I am sure this unit will see limited use. Onzee-twozee kind of thing. I have seen so many good answers now, I am confused, maybe more than when I started. Maybe back to the solder wick

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 03:22:02 am
content: Quote from: Adam60Then our job is done here !! :-) .. another confused tecchie wondering the streets ..

author: Adam60
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 03:56:19 am
content: LOL,I was confused when I cam and confused when I leaveAll good, I at least have the soldering station part solved. Will be going through and probably ordering a desoldering station for now. Hot air later. I have a lot of that myself so all good.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 09:38:06 am
content: Hot air is only about $50 from China (spare parts are dirt cheap) buy it anytime you need to.Just get a good desoldering gun if you need one, that extra $150 or so buying a reputable brand model goes a long way. Threads on the forums already about these products.

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2022, 04:42:44 am
content: Still crazy expensive although it's on special, and out of stock.https://www.oritech.com.au/hakko-fm204-desolder-station.htmlI'm expecting that the short barrel will have fewer clogging problems, when it eventually arrives.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2022, 04:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: xavier60 on December 02, 2022, 04:42:44 amHow does it compare to the Hakko FR410?

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2022, 09:15:56 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on December 02, 2022, 04:19:04 pmThe FR410 is way too expensive for me. Im even finding the cost of the FM204 difficult to justify.The FR410 has nozzles that are separate from the heater which cost a bit less than the heater integrated nozzles for the FM204.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2022, 06:43:54 am
content: Ditto! Couldn't have said it better myself. The tip controlled temperature is the only way I ever found to keep the ham-fisted guys at work from just cranking the temperature all the way up. It saved many, many PC boards from trace damage. When I was in charge of the shop I always picked up those stations with a temperature setting knob in my office and did not let them out.And yes, they do last forever. I bought mine back around 1970 and it still works fine today - with the SAME TIPs that I purchased with it at that time. I never have had to replace a single tip.And it is my go-to desoldering station as well. I know others will disagree, but a separate solder sucker is just as good or better than those stations with a built in vacuum pump.Quote from: Audioguru on March 30, 2016, 01:36:36 am

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2022, 09:56:44 am
content: While I'll agree a skilled solder sucker user can do most jobs, it's not quite the same as vacuum desoldering. The latter is way more time efficient especially on repetitive tasks.The problem with the solder suckers is they don't apply direct heat immediately during vacuuming or allow you to easily manipulate the leg at the same time. So a difficult joint may require several attempts.

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 11:28:37 am
content: I have been using my new FM204 for a week. I find it pleasant to use.Warm up is about a minute at which time the vacuum pump is allowed to operate.The solder path thorough barrel is 48mm with 2.5mm diameter. I expect very little clogging as happens with longer barrels.