KiCAD and Vacuum Tubes (Valve)  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 10:46:58 pm
content: I finally found 7.0 close enough to my mindset to give it a solid try. And the venue I needed at the moment was a schematic for a tube radio. I found little tube stuff for KiCAD so decided to dive in and create it. A few months later I have had to scale back my original goal of having symbol, footprint and 3D models for every tube in RC-25, the 1965 Receiving Tube Data Book. After expanding to RC-30 the 1970 version that added industrial tubes, I just wasn't ready to draw all of those symbols.For anybody who needs a specific tube I am including here the tools to create your own fairly easily. As a result of all of this I am still not ready to fully switch to KiCAD. It is still orthogonal to some of my thought processes, so I may stick with what I have been doing.The material provided here is not guaranteed to be suitable for anything. I have tried to eliminate errors, but there were many sources, with me not the least of them. If you depend on perfection in any of this data be sure to double check everything you use.The Excel spreadsheet contains a list of the over 2000 tube types covered along with associate base diagram, socket required, outline and a little additional basic data. The other attachments in this and the next posts include symbols for the first few dozen basing diagrams in RC-25 to use as examples, jpeg files with all of the required basing diagrams, footprints for the sockets that I was able to find PWB versions, and 3D models for the sockets and the tubes themselves. I did not find PWB sockets for some of the more unusual types. Acorn and Nuvistor being the main examples.Not all of the socket models include VRML versions. Many days of troubleshooting has not allowed me to export VRML files for the B7G and K8A sockets (Miniature 7 pin and octal). The less pretty .step versions will have to suffice.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 10:50:25 pm
content: May not get this on to here. I thought the attachments were sized to fit, but am getting errors.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 10:51:42 pm
content: More

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:18:25 pm
content: Now the VRML

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:19:46 pm
content: Tube outlines come a chunk at a time.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:20:54 pm
content: It ends at 40

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:21:18 pm
content: That's a lot of work! Thanks for sharing, these could definitely come in handy

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:22:11 pm
content: More

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:23:24 pm
content: More

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:26:39 pm
content: More

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:27:31 pm
content: More than halfway there

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:29:00 pm
content: More

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:30:00 pm
content: Almost there

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:30:58 pm
content: And that's all folks.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 11:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: David Aurora on April 05, 2024, 11:21:18 pmI appreciate the comment. Even though I started out on tubes in the 1960s, I learned a lot I didn't know during this exercise, above and beyond what I learned in FreeCAD and KiCAD. Also, I have gotten a lot of stuff off the internet so feel obliged to put stuff back.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 12:43:06 am
content: I don't know how you managed that, it's a stunning resource!!I don't know much (anything!) about tubes/valves, but by coincidence, I've been given a load of car stereos to look at, and they contain a tube/valve inside. I looked to see what part code was written on it.. appears to be N5670W but I may have misread that.Just out of curiosity I searched the Excel file, to look up "5670", and all the information needed was easy to locate in the sheets in that workbook. It showed me the pinout jpg file to look up too, and the KiCad footprint file, and the STEP and WRL files for the base and the tube.I'm using KiCad 8, and it read the footprint and 3D models just fine, all rendered perfectly! This will be a great resource for anyone wishing to build with tubes/valves.I'm tempted too, once I get around to learning a bit about them. I have a few random ones, I was hoping to make a little radio receiver with them if possible one day (I have one or two old tuning capacitors for that).

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 03:59:14 am
content: I'm glad it is of use to you. Interesting how the color render came out in your KiCAD. Very different than how I set them, with gold plated pins in a ceramic shell for the base, and a smoky grey glass for the tube envelope. Those are the materials in FreeCAD. The step files should have similar colors, just with no transparency or specular reflections. My tests actually look very similar in KiCAD and FreeCAD.I didn't bother to set the z offset for the tubes. About 2.5 mm should seat the tube in the socket.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 04:07:20 am
content: I should give a lot of credit to the two most important sources I used to cross-check and fill in missing, illegible or just plain wrong data from the RCA books.Frank's Electron Tube Pages (https://frank.pocnet.net/)andRadiomuseum (https://www.radiomuseum.org/)One of the interesting things in doing this was observing artifacts of the manual page layout techniques used in those books, the obvious places where a different person took over and some of the interesting decisions made in compiling those books. For example most of the tube outlines are based on standardized glass bulb shapes, but the 29 outline series is where they just tossed all the oddball shapes that didn't quite fit anywhere else. At least in the 1965 version. Then in the 1970 version they added a few more to the oddballs list, but also added some whole new series for some that were no more different than some of the ones in the 29 series.

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 06:33:54 am
content: Wow, that's amazing dedication. Good on ya!Somebody should put the library into an online archive for ease of access and checkout. (Don't look at me. I gave away my magic eye tubes decades ago. Sometime later the Ge transistors went too. I've vowed not to get involved with retro technology I don't already own, so no buying old gear or NOS, just NS for new fangled tech that I am bitten by.)

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 02:11:21 pm
content: The colors are great (KiCad just turns any component green by default when it's highlighted).EDIT: I just tried putting the footprint on a random circuit board and pressing the Raytracing button in KiCad. The result is perfect. Attached!

author: kd4e
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 03:00:54 am
content: What an awesome resource, thanks!I just now loaded and started setting up kicad as I have an old receiver and transmitter I want to modify.Do I need to move the downloads here? /home/dmc/.local/share/kicad/8.0/3rdpartyOr, will kicad create a symlink to their current location (where I'd rather keep them)?I need to create a clean schematic for the transmitter (the only schematic scan I can find was badly done.)Then I'll add the modified circuitry to a second version of that.I have a clean schematic for the receiver but (unless I'm mistaken) kicad doesn't have a way to scan it in from a jpeg.So, I'll also need to create a clean kicad version of the original, then another with the mod.Thanks, again ... David KD4E

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 06:56:59 am
content: :As mentioned in the first post I am a KiCad newby so others can provide better answers. My understanding is that you can put them wherever you want. But you will have to point to your location by adding it to the list of directories. I still have to dumble around finding where you so this, but it is among the properties of the symbol and footprints.

author: kd4e
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 12:48:47 am
content: I think that I've successfully added the Footprints and Symbols into KICAD.I'm not quite sure where to add the rest.Are they unzipped, saved, and then cut and pasted as needed. please?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 04:16:41 am
content: If you are using KiCad under Windows, the typical location for 3D models is Drive\Program Files\KiCad\8.0\Share\kicad\3dmodels. Drive refers to where Program Files is on your computer. Typically C:There is a folder in this directory for "Valves" or you can create your own. There are some real problems with adding stuff to the standard parts included with KiCad so I recommend creating your own. I created a folder called RCA Vacuum Tubes. The .step and .wrl files I posted are unzipped and placed in the directory of your choice. Then in the properties window of the footprint you point to the appropriate files. There is an offset adjustment box here where you can tweak the tube models to sit correctly on the sockets. I didn't take the time to perfect all of them. They should be fine in x and y, but the z axis may need a bit of help.Sorry, but I can't help for the Linux version, but it should be something along those lines. The above should also give some hints on where to put the footprints and symbols. Same cautions about modifying the standard libraries. When using the basing diagrams to create a symbol for a tube that I didn't include (I only did a dozen or so) look at how I did those. I usually found it easier to edit one of the ones already done than starting from scratch.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 06:09:34 am
content: FWIW, screenshot shows what I did; I decided to only import the footprints of interest, i.e. not all of them. I located the required footprint using the Excel file. Then, I imported it into my "user" footprint library. Then configured the Footprint Properties 3D tab, to add the 3D models for the base and the tube itself.For the symbol, I will either draw a custom one, or use a ready-made generic connector symbol of which there are plenty in KiCad (I prefer to draw a custom one).

author: kd4e
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 04:43:01 pm
content: Thanks!I printed your instructions and picture and will see what I can make of it.It's fun to learn new things, especially useful tools like this.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 05:04:32 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on April 05, 2024, 11:18:25 pmafaik the prefer format is now step files because they can be exported with the step file for the whole board

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 07:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on December 06, 2024, 05:04:32 pmI am learning KiCad. And a tutorial I used to learn how to incorporate 3D models said that vrml was preferred. I don't have a dog in the fight, so I included both. For reasons I don't understand I have had problems with one or the other formats on some models. This is a hobby, not a career for me, so I may or may not ever get to the bottom of the reasons why one might choose one or the other.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2024, 03:45:34 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 06, 2024, 07:19:52 pmvrml is for when you want to render pretty pictures, if you want to export the complete board and component as step to mechanical cad you need stepthe export function has an option to replace vrml with step for export if you have both files

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2024, 05:11:58 pm
content: So for you STEP is the preferred format because you use that feature. I was unaware that KiCad cannot export entire boards as VRML. It does seem to render boards on screen in this format. While the step files are sufficient for designing enclosures and verifying board to board clearances I submit that "pretty pictures" also have value and if this limitation of KiCad is true then it is a real deficiency.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2024, 07:00:26 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 07, 2024, 05:11:58 pmkicad can export the entire board as VRML, but most mechanical cad wants a step fileand afaik VRML is sorta obsoleted or at-least superseded by something else

author: kd4e
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 06:23:34 pm
content: Is VMRL obsoleted by KiCAD or the industry in general?Are you aware of a document that explains the reasoning and timing of that, please?Can STEP also render attractive looking layouts for web page display, printing, teaching tools, etc?I'm also new to KiCAD and am trying to understand some of the why's, for's, when's, and how's. :-)Thanks.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 11:18:49 pm
content: One problem with VRML is that it does not have a standardized size for what a "unit" is. And as of both metric and banana units are not bad enough, I can miss another ambiguous unit size as toothache. That alone is enough reason for me to avoid VRML wherever possible.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 11:34:47 pm
content: I am only a little ahead of you, but can provide a little information. Current .step files do not provide all of the information required for photorealistic rendering. But can store color information which is attractive enough for some.KiCad's commitment to photorealistic rendering does not seem solid. I guess if you want photorealistic you can export .step, import it into Blender or other graphics program and define materials yourself.

author: uniquecreativeusername
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 24, 2024, 09:14:04 am
content: I've run into a bit of a snag using this library -- Many of the symbols are not present, and there doesn't seem to be a specific column for them in the spreadsheet. Does one of the columns ("test" maybe?) provide information to convert from the tube name to a specific symbol, or is there another step needed to get the appropriate symbol for a specific tube?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2024, 04:31:04 pm
content: As mentioned in the opening post I just got tired of creating symbols and left the rest as an exercise for the user. I only completed about a third of the symbols. Maybe I will return to this during the cold winter months, but I make no promises. I will attach a modified version of the Excel file which identifies whether a particular tube type has a symbol in the existing database. The terminal diagram column identifies the correct base diagram symbol for each tube. There are .jpg files for all of the tubes I included in the base diagram .zip file.I find it easiest to generate another symbol by finding a reasonably good match in one of the existing symbols (pentode, dual triode - something that is a good starting point) and then opening that symbol and saving as the new symbol name. Then import the .jpg image and modify the symbol as required.When you have all the ones you need complete, perhaps you could post them here as an aid to others.