NBN Finally telling us what Tech we'll get hooked up to... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 11:04:17 pm
content: NBN Finally telling us what Tech we'll get hooked up to...http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/check-your-address.htmlLooks like I got lucky being in an Optus HFC only area as I'm getting FTTC (real name FTTdp) ... downside is I have to wait 2 years for it - but at least I'm not getting shafted with FTTN like most of the country.PS, the site is a little slow atm so it can take a while for the type of connection tech and map to appear.

author: twiddle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 12:11:14 am
content: Unfortunately not every Optus HFC area is going to get FTTdp, it seems.I got transferred to FTTN, which has managed to be inferior to even the crappy HFC connection I had before in almost every respect.Was hoping that I'd be eventually on FTTdp after your post, but seems like no such luck.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 01:15:16 am
content: Quote from: twiddle on February 27, 2017, 12:11:14 amOh thats sucks, folks on FTTN are gong to be stuck with shit internet for at least a decade as the only upgrade path is a full FTTP or FTTdp overbuild! NBN keep mentioning G.fast in the same sentence as FTTN but this is pointless unless the node is less than 250m by cable from your modem!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 01:43:10 am
content: My address says Fibre To The Node, but I can see the fibre dangling from the ceiling outside my office door!Same for both my business addresses.

author: twiddle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 02:31:26 am
content: I'm only a few suburbs (2155) over from you Dave, maybe that bodes well for me and the inaccuracy of the website? *looks hopeful*At the moment though, I'd settle for a connection that doesn't resemble a square wave speed-wise.. 50mbps during the day, but only 3-5mbps as soon as 5pm hits till 11pmish every night. My ISP is evidently not buying anywhere near enough CVC.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 02:32:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 27, 2017, 01:43:10 amThat's just bizarre, it really is a mess.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 02:44:27 am
content: I just feel sorry for the peeps who aren't all that technically minded that have no choice but to take as gospel what they are being told by the telcos and the fitters. And paying too much for a dreadful system.It's really wrong.

author: moz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 02:59:54 am
content: Quote* means "note: this is a wild stab in the dark"QuoteTranslation: fibre to your neighbourhood, but you'll still be on coax. Eventually they might upgrade the hardware so it can go faster than 100Mbits but don't hold your breath.We're already on Telstra speed boost {tm} and 100Mbits is something we see at 3am on occasion. Looks like the NBN is a complete bust for us. Or maybe the back-end upgrades will help... I mean, just because the NBN is consistently under-provisioned at the back end doesn't mean the same will happen to us. By the time we get it they might have dropped the CVC charge to something more reasonable and ISPs (sorry, RSPs) might be able to offer better service.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:01:02 am
content: So far I am very happy, paying for and syncing at 100/40 and actually seeing these speeds throughout the day, about 11ms latency from Katoomba to Sydney using MyRepublic. Just a little speed upgrade from the 4kbit ADSL 1 connection I upgraded from. All FTTN in our area.Please note that if you are seeing speeds below 100Mbit, remember it could be the server you're talking to, 100Mbit is a ton of bandwidth for AU hosts, many data centers still throttling servers main up link to 100Mbit. Pull some data from a CDN and see what kind of speeds you get before you assume it's your telco.

author: bibz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:28:36 am
content: I'm lucky enough to have been on NBN for well over a year now, although the dreaded FTTN. There has definitely been teething issues but they have all been addressed very quickly I have to say. TPG 100mb unlim, although syncing at ~80 thanks to the ~400m of copper. It really is night and day compared to the 3.5k run for 4mbit adsl2. For the current and near future FTTN will be fine, its that once they actually roll it out everywhere I'm thinking the Internet Of Fridges will have clogged it all up already! Netflix alone can cause peak stresses on the networks. But since this is the first widescale rollout of the craptech they've been watching like a hawk I guess.Just a tip, Telstra has been the worst carrier by FAR. I had a connection 2-3 months before people in the same area who went through them. And any issues have had Telstra supplying the vast majority of their sub-contractors serving the other clients (telcos) first.And I'll just add that my 8ms ping to the battlefield servers feels like cheating

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:58:56 am
content: Quote from: gnif on February 27, 2017, 03:01:02 amYou are fortunate, most FTTN users wont get 100/40 sync speeds as you have to be within 500m total cable length of the Node (including in home wiring).Quote from: gnif on February 27, 2017, 03:01:02 amRubbish, the most common installed node size is a 192 port cabinet but ranging up to 384 port cabinets in some areas, so simple math dictates that the average FTTN Line speed is going to be less than 50mbps based on max line lengths of ~1,100 metres to deliver a theoretical minimum of 25Mbps.

author: twiddle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:59:34 am
content: Quote from: gnif on February 27, 2017, 03:01:02 amI've been using the same test server in Melbourne since before the switch-over to NBN. At work that same server gives me speeds of 400mbps (which I've verified with steam downloads peaking close to that), so it isn't something that should be a limiting factor. I'm only paying for 50/20 at home atm because I see no point in paying more until I actually see my peak speeds being usable... My old HFC connection was subject to peak contention, but that meant speeds dropped from 30 to 15mbps during peak, not the 3-5 I get now which isn't even enough to stream 720p from Youtube.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 04:06:10 am
content: Quote from: bibz on February 27, 2017, 03:28:36 amThe frustrating part of FTTN is the Line length isnt't measured directly from the Node, the Path is actuallyNode -> Telstra Pillar -> House wiring -> ModemSo it's not hard for most folk to be more than 500m line length from the node and therefore unable to get 100/40Mbps.It really is the worst possible tech to be rolling out in 2017!

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 06:25:48 am
content: Damn. I'm going to be stuck on HFC cable.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 06:59:57 am
content: Quote from: twiddle on February 27, 2017, 02:31:26 amI'm in a commercial office complex that has been earmarked as important (they pushed it ahead by several years), don't expect that at home.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 07:36:18 am
content: Quote from: gnif on February 27, 2017, 03:01:02 amYou're one of the lucky ones (or as it's known in the trade "You won node lotto"). Most customers in the Mountains (and other suburbs) with old, crusty copper and more than a few hundred metres of copper to the node have nothing but problems.My issue has been taken all the way to Ben Fordham on 2GB radio and to our local federal member who has pushed it up her channels. It's taken over 6 months of bullshit and approaching people in high places that things are finally getting fixed. NBN Co. have finally admitted that the infrastructure needs work and have opened a "Network remediation ticket".Some areas (such as Springwood) are getting Fibre to the Curb/Driveway, which means you might have 10-15 metres of copper between you and the fibre in the street. This is a far superior solution than Fibre to the Node. Not quite FTTP but fuck it, we'll take it!Just as I was typing this, I lost all line sync for 2 minutes 46 seconds, third time this afternoon.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 07:50:44 am
content: It says I am getting FTTN in 2017. Which I guess is good but I'm currently happy with the ADSL2 anyway.Is there any way you can find out where the 'node' will be situated?I guess it will replace the closest pillar which afaik is about 1km away.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 08:06:15 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on February 27, 2017, 07:50:44 amThey are usually within about 50 metres of the Pillar - lately NBN has been installing the large 384 port nodes half way between 2 pillars so they can service 2 "smaller" DA's (Distribution Area's) from a single Node. The upshot is many folks will be lucky to get 25/5 mbps.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 08:12:02 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 27, 2017, 07:36:18 amand at least upgrading to fibre should be farily cheap as it's just a Fibre patch lead being run from the GPON NTD install location to the GPON Multi-Port in the pit out the front of your house (assuming your Lead-In Conduit is in good condition).Quote from: Halcyon on February 27, 2017, 07:36:18 amYeah good old Copper tech, only conservatives desperate to paint their main opposition as poor economic managers would think recycling Telstra's badly maintained PSTN is a good idea!

author: bibz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:10:12 pm
content: It's not Telstras anymore. Once the libs got in and put their mates into the NBN they BOUGHT ALL THE CRAP COPPER from Telstra through the NBN. The rollout here atleast stated that the NBN took over and any old lines had 18months to swap over before the copper running to the old node will be decommisioned. Not long after my node was installed there was a 10,000+ house outage caused by 'weather' that took out the old copper line running through the suburb. That was a month at least without phone line or internet, even though the fibre was hooked up, because they only had a barebones team fixing all the copper in the area, knowing it would be decomissioned soon.Pretty grubby stuff really. And very short sighted. I could accept it if they rolled it out fast but it really freakin' drags. With nodes just sitting there for over a year waiting...

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 08:59:03 pm
content: Quote from: bibz on February 27, 2017, 03:10:12 pmYeah there's a reason those of us with Telco experience called it #FraudBand (ironically stolen from Fiona Nash of the Nats who coined it in 2007 to describe the then ALP FTTN comms policy), Turnbull was never going to be able to deliver it by the end of last year or for $29 billion and he knew it!Look what happened to Nick Ross of the ABC when he forensically tore the libs policy to shreds, the ABC black balled him because they didn't want to upset Turnbull who was highly likely to be the next comms minister.http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/01/14/nick-ross-abc-nbn_n_8985558.html

author: moz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 12:26:55 am
content: Yes, Nick Ross did seem to be the "pour encourager les autres" target for the ABC management and politicians.The real killer for me is that NZ seems to have just quietly got on with it and now have fibre penetration Australia can only dream of. While they don't have the sheer distance issues Australia has, they have a much more active landscape to navigate.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 12:32:07 am
content: Quote from: moz on February 28, 2017, 12:26:55 amyeah it's pretty disheartening that their politicians can work together for the National interest yet we have pollies like Abbott that can only destroy....

author: Bigfoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 02:31:46 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 27, 2017, 07:36:18 amI'm in that area and my phone line has a huge amount of hash and I loose sync regularly , last Friday for a period of several hours the router resync'd every few minutes . Very painful indeed. Last June we had no connectivity for a month voice or data due to failure of the copper lines.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 02:45:23 am
content: Quote from: Bigfoot on February 28, 2017, 02:31:46 amI've had my sync speeds mysteriously halve and then drop out every few minutes for several days - I've worked for ISP's so know how to troubleshoot my own xDSL issues - after doing everything possible I called Telstra, spent the 1st hour telling 1st level support "I've done that, not the issue" before finally exhausting their script and getting put to 2nd level support, half an hour later 2nd level support admitted my xDSL port had a fault and transferred my line to another port fixing the problem.and the Libs bought the PSTN for Billions depsite Telstra telling the Senate its condition was "five minutes to midnight" in 2003.Packer was famous for saying you "only get 1 Alan Bond in your lifetime", apparently Telstra got their "Alan Bond moment" via Malcolm TurnBull.

author: Bigfoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 03:42:26 am
content: Quote from: djos on February 28, 2017, 02:45:23 amPretty sad isn't it? Well I would suspect that I'm on a crappy port at the exchange since these issues started around the time there was a problem at the exchange which is about 1500m away. It's hard to get anywhere with my ISP as it's all talk to the hand response. I was told there was flooding due to bad weather , the hash increases when it's raining.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 04:09:57 am
content: Quote from: Bigfoot on March 01, 2017, 03:42:26 amIndeed! If your problems increase due to weather then the answer is most likely due to shot joint seals, the jokes about Telstra tech's using plastic bags to "protect" them arent jokes at all. The other major issue is Telstra used a Gel sealant for quite a number of years which was later found to actually trap the water inside the joint! The water then corrodes the joint and causes faults.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 04:24:21 am
content: Quote from: djos on March 01, 2017, 04:09:57 amFar from a joke. This photo was taken in the pit up the road from me a few weeks ago. My NBN FTTN pair is somewhere among the other 99 pairs in that tangled mess.That plastic sheet is their idea of "water proofing".

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 04:32:04 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 01, 2017, 04:24:21 amIt's amazing how many ppl think are are joking if you mention it.

author: Bigfoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 04:45:27 am
content: Also those pits are open bottom.when I first looked in one I thought rising water table problems in wet weather but the water needs to drain away somehow. Those crimp connectors are gel filled but how. I might have to look in after a storm.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 11:19:58 am
content: well.... in about 2 years it looks like our house is getting fibre to the hole in the ground!what I want to know is. my dp is literally 4m from my house... what on EARTH do I have to do, to skip the ridiculous 15m ADSL link I'm going to have, and just have a proper FTTH connection? I'd love to just have that done the first time rather with messing with something so ridiculous as a backpowered fibre/adsl link in the pit going straight to another adsl modem in the house... Hell.. I think I'd even rather have ethernet back to the pit than phone cable!Reckon I can just dig my own fibre from my house to the pit, and put in a 6 pack of beer with a note saying "help us out, bruh"?

author: moz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 10:31:41 pm
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on March 02, 2017, 11:19:58 amI think that's more likely to work thanasking the NBN peopleif you can pay extra to get FTTH. Every report I've read says the latter is slow,expensive ($4000+)and very, very interactive - you have to keep bugging them about it and monitor everything they do very carefully, and you will probably still end up with new copper to your house, which you will then pay to have removed and replaced with fibre.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 01:44:27 am
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on March 02, 2017, 11:19:58 amits VDSL2+ but yeah, all part of Turnbull's ABF* policy.*Anything But Fibre, manynew estates have been getting coppa

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 03:53:10 am
content: Quote from: djos on March 03, 2017, 01:44:27 amindeed.

author: bibz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 02:57:43 pm
content: Anything But Fast

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 09:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: bibz on March 03, 2017, 02:57:43 pmThe ALP made one major mistake (well ok they made lots but I digress), they didnt get Murdoch's approval and he see's NBN as a threat to his PayTV monopoly, Newspaper and TV interests.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 09:34:22 pm
content: Quote from: djos on February 27, 2017, 03:58:56 amI was not referring to the sync speed here, perhaps I should have been more clear, I was referring to those that are getting 100Mbit sync but see speeds lower then 100Mbit. They could be talking to a host somewhere that is either shaping, sharing a 100Mbit uplink, or only has a 10Mbit uplink, which are all still very common today. Most HTTP servers throttle/shape each connection to stop a single user with a ton of bandwidth taking the host offline by saturating it's uplink. There may indeed be an issue with the ISP, etc... but the point is, you need to prove it before assuming it is the link and not the host or target network you are trying to talk to.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 10:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on March 03, 2017, 09:34:22 pmOk, next time be more precise please, this is after all a technical forum.FTTN as implemented by LibNBN Co has a number of massive issues^ before the RSP's get anywhere near it with their under purchased CVC.* Only 2 Fibre Pairs per Node, of which only 1 is provisioned* the Single active Fibre Pair is using 1GBE SFP modules to connect back to the AAS in the FAN* the AAS are only provisioned with redundant 10/10 GBE links back to the POI infra and each support 4 Nodes* this leave's a 192 port node with a maximum peak bandwidth of 5.33/5.33 Mbps per port - in a Netflix / IoT world thats pathetic* To fix this you'd need to replace all the 1GBE SFP's in the Nodes & SFP's with 10GBE SFP's and also upgrade the AAS to POI SFP's to at least 40GBE. It would have been far better to start from this position but unfortunately Conservatives seem unable to grasp the concept of planning for the future.For Comparison, basic GPON (as used in the FTTP parts of the NBN) has 2.5GBE/1.25GBE backhaul to the OLT per 32 Ports leaving a peak maximum bandwidth per port of 78.12/39.06Mbps, it's a pretty dramatic difference in architechure.^here's theNBN design doc, se page 30+

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 03:04:33 am
content: NBN = No Bloody Network.I have heard stories where the NBN simply cannot cope with the load in some areas. It is under-performing, uses outdated technology.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 03:25:08 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 04, 2017, 03:04:33 amYep, also known as #Fraudband. Around the world FTTP is the dominant architecture being rolled out, only Australia is rolling out FTTN at scale!http://point-topic.com/free-analysis/global-broadband-subscribers-q4-2015/FTTP is now the dominant force in New broadband connections globally: