Let's talk about leaking batteries. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cvanc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 11:24:06 am
content: Is it just me, or do modern Duracell/Energizer batteries leak more often than ones from years past? This failure mode seems to be on the increase... do others see it that way too? If so... why?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 11:36:36 am
content: Enough said ->YARA....

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 11:40:52 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 02, 2018, 11:31:04 amPic worth thousand words ...These shots were taken in 2013 .. watch the expiration date.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 05:17:21 pm
content: I've had energizers piss all over me before...little bastards...

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 05:38:39 pm
content: Duracell, Energizer, etc. Yup, have had them all leak. They are forbidden in my household now.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 12:31:36 am
content: Gone over to Lithium and Eneloops (or Ikea Ladda LSD NiMH - which are out of the same Eneloop factory by all accounts).No more alkalines here, having said that, Panasonic and Sony alkalines have never leaked but I'm not willing to test them further.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 01:32:11 am
content: In Australia, we have federal laws which protect consumers from faulty and unsafe products or products which aren't of reasonable quality or durability. This includes batteries which leak and damage your devices.Under Australian consumer law, you can seek compensation for damage or loss caused by leaking batteries direct from the manufacturer of the faulty batteries. The manufacturer of the faulty product is in breach of the Australian consumer law if they fail to provide a reasonable remedy.However in other countries where these kinds of consumer protections are diluted or non-existent, you'll probably find that most of the big manufacturers such as Energiser and Duracell have a "No Leak Guarantee" where they repair or replace your damaged product at their expense.Some examples of these warranties:Energiser USA:Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX® Alkaline batteries either during the life of the battery or within two years following the full use of the battery.Duracell USA/Canada:Duracell guarantees its batteries against defects in materials and workmanship. Should any device be damaged due to a battery defect, we will repair or replace it at our option.Sure, it's not ideal when batteries leak, but you shouldn't be copping the bill for damage to your gear, put the responsibility back on the battery manufacturer. (Side note: I would suggest that using a Batteriser/Batteroo with your batteries would void any consumer guarantees or warranties since it's probably considered "misuse" or "modification", so keep Batterisers/Batteroos away from batteries or any devices you care about!)

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 02:00:03 am
content: Worth noting that when using alkalines as a series battery pack, if one battery goes flat before the others it will start to get reverse charged and that drastically increases its chance of leaking. In high current devices the effect is much more noticeable. Ever noticed how batteries tend to leak in flashlights and motorised toys and not so much in wallclocks and TV remotes? Significant reverse charging can only occur when the pack is connected to a low impedance load.Therefore if you want to avoid leaks it might be worth load testing the batteries to rule out any duds before installing them as a series pack, and immediately removing the batteries as soon as the pack shows signs of becoming flat. Never mix and match brands/batches of batteries or mix fresh with old batteries either.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 02:29:08 am
content: I've often wondered why they always put that warning on packs not to mix new/old batteries and those of different brands/types. Thanks TMM, very informative!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 02:37:27 am
content: Quote from: cvanc on April 02, 2018, 11:24:06 amThis question is often asked, and as I understand it the answer is to do with the changing the formulation for higher power output. Every change that increases the marketing buzzwords on the label like "super extra ultra max power" is also a change that increases the propensity to leak.If you want to reduce the probability of leaks, buy inexpensive batteries without extravagant claims, brands such as Sunbeam, Kodak, Sony, Fuji, and so on. These will have the extra benefit of being vastly cheaper, too.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 03:50:32 am
content: Duracell alkaline batteries are garbage, they have leaked in most of my gear.After Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway bought them fromProctor and Gamble, it's been much worse past few years.I think it's mergers and acquisitions and cost cutting that is lowering quality.It's also gong show with their manufacturing:Made in USAProduct of USAAssembled in USAMade in MalaysiaThe USA ones leak just as much, so I'm not sure what happened. Cheaper seals perhaps.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 04:03:32 am
content: Some stores also stock"parallel" or "grey" imports, in other words, genuine products but made in different factories for different markets which might not conform to the same standards or product rules. It's quite possible that batteries aimed at other markets leak more often than those developed for Australian markets (for example).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 04:15:26 am
content: I've had alkalines of nearly every brand leak, and it seems to be much worse in recent years, I've heard rumors it's to do with the changes required to make them mercury free. I suspect it's also a matter of cost reductions.Sure the reputable brands will "repair or replace at their option" equipment damaged by a leaky battery, but that does you no good if it's something that is not easily replaceable, and also you are without it for a potentially significant period of time. I got $20 for a Maglight that was damaged by leaky batteries and that was great since it was only a $15 flashlight but what if that happened to my Fluke DMM that I use every day? I only buy LSD NiMH cells these days, mostly Eneloop.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 04:22:38 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 03, 2018, 04:15:26 amI completely agree but stuff them. If more people hit companies up for repair/replacement even if it's a "throw-away" item, they might start to pick up their game a little bit.If it's the case you have an item which is expensive or irreplaceable, I'd probably think twice about using standard batteries in them in the first place. As you say, rechargeable batteries are a good alternative.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 04:44:08 am
content: Duracell have gone to the dogs. I did get lots of leaking ones...so much I won't buy them again.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 05:14:32 am
content: A class-action lawsuit would get their attention.The crusties are potassium carbonate (KOH+CO2), which is also oven and grill cleaner.Use an acid for cleanup, vinegar or lemon juice or boric acid. Insoluble in alcohol so IPA is not helpful.IkeaLadda rechargeable Ni-MH batteries are rumoured to be made by Sanyo, on sale they are ~3X price of non-rechargeables.I tried to ask Panasonic to make 9V Eneloop batteries, but no contact information on their mega corporate website. Sigh.The 9V Li-ion batteries (two of 3.7V pack inside 600mAh) 8.4V I have not tried.The Ni-MH 9V batteries 280mAh just cooked and died in Agilent U1252 multimeters, not sure why.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 05:21:12 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on April 03, 2018, 05:14:32 amI've been seeing a Chinese brand called Camelion, that has these 9V Lithium, anyone have any idea about this brand ?Example ->https://www.camelion.com/en/products/primary-batteries/lithium-p7tm/9v/Note : Nominal Voltage = 10,8V and 10 years shelf life.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 05:59:27 am
content: Back when Duracells were launched they pushed two points in their ads, and both were valid:Alkaline cells have a much higher capacity than zinc carbon cells.Alkaline cells never leak.They used to push the no leaks angle just as hard as the high capacity angle. As other makes of alkaline cells entered the market they seemed to maintain the same qualities. For years I never saw an alkaline cell leak, even if left in a draw dead for a few years. Now pretty much every make and model of alkaline cell leaks nearly every time, often long before the battery is exhausted.

author: wolfp
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 06:14:14 am
content: I had the same problems a few years ago with Duracell batteries. They leaked and destroyed a multimeter. Since then I use cheaper batteries (e.g. Camelion). They may have a lower capacity but they never leaked.

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 08:19:33 am
content: Quote from: IanB on April 03, 2018, 02:37:27 amThis has been my approach and experience for the last few years. They might not last as long as 'high-end' alkalines but they have a lot less tendency to leak. I've had no leaks in the last few years in remotes that seldom gets used or in my daughters toys that gets drained totally and are often left turned on with dead cells. For peace of mind I will fit LSD NiMh in my meters and this thread reminded me that I still haven't done that.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 08:46:25 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on April 03, 2018, 05:14:32 amAustralia is quite different to class actions and consumer protections...in otherwords we have stuff all consumer protections. We don't even have motor vehicle Lemon laws. Halcyon mention we have some protections but these are rarely enforced especially by individuals. I mean you'd probably have to prove the battery purchase was fitted correctly and within use by date not mishandled etc. In theory they should work. I did try it on with one supplier of an electronic appliance i purchased with a recall fault but my unit was not in the recall yet had same fault....I was denied even after going to consumer affairs.The Duracell started going off back in very late 90's. I was involved in a facility repairing pilots night vision googles and using them. Duracell AA's were all of a sudden slightly larger diameter and didn't fit the googles case. We had to source special orders of Duracell AA's (only the Duracell's were rated for airworthiness at that stage) from OS...the others were ordered to dumps....we took care of that dirty task with gusto. Suffice to say why did they change the batteries? No idea but I think they changed construction a little and any change had airworthiness impact. The Airforce paid a premium for these batteries ( I mean premium...around $10 ea battery we purchased by the hundreds) way over normal costs boy they and us were peeved. They were one use fit...used once then replaced! No matter how much use.Really peeve's me off. Premium brand.... my rear end!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 11:44:29 am
content: Quote from: IanB on April 03, 2018, 02:37:27 amThere is a certain percentage of the cell filled with otherwise inactive chemical (I believe this used to be mercury, but is now something else) to absorb the hydrogen generated during discharge. To get more capacity, manufacturers reduce this to make room for more active chemical.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 01:24:46 pm
content: I replaced all AA and AAA with low self discharge type rechargeable some time ago.For 9 volt, I'm using a brand "EBL" purchased on eBay and they've been working fine. I bought a charger + 2 NiMH (280 mAh) and a charger + 2 Li Ion (600 mAh). The charger is the same for both types. These have long ago repaid the original purchase price ($12 and $16 if I remember right).edit: Here is a linkhttps://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=EBL+9+volt&_nkw=EBL+9+voltThe ones I bought came with the 6F22 charger.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 07:58:40 pm
content: I think the increased leakage is due to cost cutting.Many brands were high quality, high price - only to get bought by a mega conglomerate and raided for cost improvement to deliver "accelerating revenue growth and increased shareholder value".Alkaline batteries compete mainly on price, and capacity is all over the place. Why put more into a battery, consumers don't notice the extra hours.We all put these batteries into very expensive equipment, beyond a toy or TV remote, so leaking causes great damage.Looking at a couple alkaline battery seal patents, it seems the end-crimp closure is expensive and everyone moved to using glue instead.The glues are attacked by the electrolyte. "zero added mercury" causes more corrosion. So lots of trouble, a cocktail of at least four glues; epoxy, silicone rubber, hot glue etc.US6605383 EnergizerUS5332633 Duracell

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 08:20:36 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on April 03, 2018, 07:58:40 pmThis is not my observation. I observe that Duracell and Energizer are very expensive in spite of cost sensitive consumers, and so I conclude they must compete on brand image. I can buy a pack of 4 AA Sunbeam alkaline AA cells for $1, compared to a pack of 4 Energizer/Duracell for about $5 (maybe less in bulk or on special offer), with the added bonus that I have never seen a Sunbeam cell to leak. Furthermore the Sunbeam cells have more or less the same capacity. So I am left mystified about why Duracell and Energizer are still in the market?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 12:46:03 am
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on April 03, 2018, 08:46:25 amI'd have to disagree. We have some of the most powerful consumer laws in the world and retailers and manufacturers are picking up their game because of it. I've had a couple of claims over the years and while you might need to "educate" the person you're dealing with about your consumer rights (nicely of course), each time I've got a remedy without resorting to further action. People just need to read and understand their rights (the customer isnotalways right) and assert them when they are entitled to do so.Increasingly, companies are getting some pretty serious fines and other sanctions for breaching consumer law. Apple Australia has been under the spotlight a number of times and were forced to explain the consumer law in conjunction with their own warranty terms more clearly on theirwebsite. Another is MSY (a computer parts retailer) who wasfined $750,000.No, we don't have "lemon laws" as such, but they are coming. In the mean time, the same consumer rights apply to motor vehicles bought from a dealer. If you don't get anywhere with the place that sold you the vehicle (or product), go directly to the manufacturer, that'syourchoice and neither can fob you off to the other.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 10:25:10 am
content: All the batteries nowadays either leak and or or crust up, you can take that to the bankthey are a coin toss at bestDon't blow your cash on overpriced DuraJell drummers or EnerJizzer bunniesunless it's in smoke detectors so you can sue someone if they fail (if you survive the fire) as these two pos brands are 'recommended for smoke detectors'I have reasonable luck and better run with cheapies like Toshiba and Camelion and save a bundle (two dollar!)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 06:56:47 pm
content: I started using LSD NiMH 9V batteries in my smoke alarms, I think they're "BATK" brand, so far so good. I had some of those expensive lithium ones for a while but they seemed to only last about twice as long as the much cheaper alkalines, nowhere near the 10 years claimed. Now I can just recharge the NiMH batteries twice a year or so and be done with it, no need to wait for the things to start chirping.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 10:46:03 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 04, 2018, 10:31:13 amI'll bet serious money there are fine dust particles or bits of insects and their deposits settled in those chirpers,especially detectors near carpets and rugs, exterior entry doors and properties located near the sea or dusty dry areasgive them a careful blowout on all sides with a hair dryer on cold setting to clear out the sensor chamber/s or whatever it's called,fit new batteries, check that BOTH the 9 volt connections are tight,one may be a loose slacker and contribute to random chirping as the voltage decreases over time,refit, do a test (hold your ears) and see what happensThis has worked for me EVERY TIME with different suspect detectors, new and vintage, 240 volt powered combos and cheapie battery ones,all work flawlessly FOR ME (Disclaimer City) and family and friendsand frustrated clients in business premises that don't favor an expensive hard wired multiple swap out of detectors if they don't have toFWIW my final pre-walk away testing involves burning something nearby to trigger the detector/s,not just pressing the test button and knocking on woodMy phone calender reminds me to do battery swap outs twice a year, but usually once is enough unless the weather has been extremeMy multimeters score the old batteries which usually read 8.5 to 9 volts under load, good enough for a meterOccasionally you can come across a NEW bad battery that leaks or crusts up after a few months,sometimes the entire batch may be affected if bought at the same timeand very old suspect detectors past 10 years that fail the above, should be replaced anyway with an affordable reputable brand or store rebadge,not a cheap no-name

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 11:28:00 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on April 03, 2018, 05:14:32 amflooby, if your U1252 is cooking batteries, it's possible that the charger is malfunctioning. Mine was like that brand new and was replaced by Keysight.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 10:09:07 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 04, 2018, 12:46:03 amI know what your saying but these changes haven't been around for a great length of time yet we have very slack laws for our biggest asset purchases cars houses. Too many companies Phoenix'ing like building companies, allowing purchase off the plan delaying building then upping the cost exorbitantly (allowed in contracts), VW sending letters to Australian owners asking them to sign a waiver they would not sue them or be liable for losses due to dieselgate. Companies refusing to pay superannuation payments yet the government does little to stop this. The recent 7/11 wages saga is typical of Australian corporate thinking.We also have damn poor consumer support for repairs here. In USA you can order any part from any appliance on line. I usually have to order said same parts from OS, they either won't sell them or only supply to "Authorised repairers"..which is a croc.Anyway.../rant.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 10:54:59 am
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on April 05, 2018, 10:09:07 amToo right mate, it's snafu as usual and 'Buyer Beware'The big cities are filling up with visa jumpers, graffitti, trash, homeless people on the streets,non stop high rise shoedogbox housing that benefits the lowlife developersand halfass skilled tradie neanderthals trying to convince us they are pros by wearing orange and green circus clobber, standing around performing OHS (SFA) and holding up trafficThis so called 'progress' dumps homeless possums and wildlife in batttlers back yards to wreak havoc, and the birds eat and trash anything that growsand infinite roadworks no one gas about anymore because it's a CONSTANT PITA and won't even benefit motorists in the futureJust money spinning for the serial richtards who will stink so hard when they die, cremation will be a mustor better still send these pos to the Sun in an unmarked r0cketHow is the governmint going to slow down these money hoarding clowns who are their mates and election time cash throwers?That rant aside, just try sending a trashed big dollars multimeter eaten by expensive hyped batteries to the battery manufacturer or their rep here in AustraliaDon't hold your breath waiting for a new meter, you may get a fresh pack of replacement batteriesand the knackered meter returned in a half open box with bonus cracked display and resident cockroach,with some corporat excuseaka The Fingerdocumentation saying it's your fault the batteries jizzed because it was operated in a professional device, likely beyond normal parametersor some other cringe worthy lame excuse

author: TechieTX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2018, 03:49:08 pm
content: I've replaced the batteries in things I care about (test gear and remotes) with primary Lithium cells. They're notsupposedto leak, and I haven't experienced any of them leaking yet. Cheap-#ss Chinese electronics get whatever 'cos the product may not outlast the batteries.I get around a 5 to 8 year shelf life on primary Lithium batteries, rarely any longer.HOWEVER, the Lithium batteries are at least mildly "hazardous waste", and Alkalines can go in the local landfill here in Texas. The US EPA doesn't regulate onesie-twosie home disposal of Lithium batteries, but they do in larger quantities. Individual states are allowed to restrict Lithium batteries more strongly than the limits in 40 CFR; I haven't looked to see if any US states (or other countries) restrict them from homeowners.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2018, 04:44:37 pm
content: I don't know about the 1.5V lithium cells but I've seen numerous vintage computers completely destroyed by leaking lithium batteries of the 3V type used in 80s-90s Macs and some other machines. They leak on the motherboard dissolving components and traces and the vapors rust out all the steel in the machine. They're worse than any leaky alkaline I've seen. Hopefully the lithium AA cells are a different enough chemistry for that to not be an issue.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2018, 04:52:02 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 08, 2018, 04:44:37 pmI believe lithium AA cells have the same corrosive alkaline electrolyte that alkaline cells have. The difference is that there is very little of it (the cells are almost dry inside), and more importantly the cells do not generate hydrogen gas that pressurizes the insides and squeezes stuff out through the seals. So unless the seals degrade the battery will not leak.Those old small cells in vintage computers have been waiting for decades before they leak. I think either the seals degrade or the metal casing corrodes, and eventually they spill their guts. An AA lithium might do that if you left it for 20-30 years, but they are likely to be disposed of long before then.

author: TechieTX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2018, 11:39:59 pm
content: I haven't seen leaking CR2032 batteries on the mainboards we repair, but none of 'em are over 5 years old: not long enough for the batteries to turn to goo.CR coin cells are lithium and manganese dioxide with an organic electrolyte (there are several different electrolytes that I'd found). The 1.5V and 9V primary Lithium batteries generally use Lithium & iron disulfide with an electrolyte made from lithium salt & and organic solvent, which varies a bit between manufacturers. You can find the specific electrolyte by looking at the SDS/MSDS for the battery, at least for US manufacturers.Stuff I plan to keep gets the batteries replaced every 5 or 6 years, regardless of whether they're still good or not. It's no fun to have your emergency light turn up dead because you forgot to replace the batteries. Now that a lot of people are making primary lithiums the price has dropped way down from what I used to pay. It's still a premium compared to Alkalines, but worth the cost to me.Hmmm... I just looked at an Energizer app note for their 'Ultimate Lithium' batteries, and they say that the batteries won't leak innormal consumer use, which is nice weasel-words for "we'll replace the leaky battery but not your gear", so buyer beware.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 09, 2018, 12:46:10 am
content: Quote from: TechieTX on April 08, 2018, 11:39:59 pmOr an excuse to charge more for Energiser "Industrial" batteries?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2018, 01:17:06 am
content: I don't think that the consumer repair-or-replace warranty applies to Industrial batteries (they say "not for consumer use", so presumably you takes your chances).