VC99 still best budget multimeter for mostly electronics? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 03:08:08 pm
content: Looking around, I get the impression that despite the somewhat divided opinions, for mostly electronics use, the Vichy VC99 is still the best option factoring in precision, speed, and price.Other available options in the range I see are Mastech MS8268, Digitek DT-4000ZC, Digitek DT-2843R, UniT UT139C. They all seem to have better built quality and safety, and depending on the model they have extras features such as true RMS, data logging, backlight, etc. But they either lack in precision, counts, speed, or price.What do you think?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 03:37:26 pm
content: It didn't fare so well in Dave's 50$ meter shoot-out.

author: IO390
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 03:37:46 pm
content: Well I managed to break my last meter, and I can't afford a new Fluke at the moment so I just ordered one for temporary low voltage electronics stuff.I guess I'll find out if it's any good when it arrives, but looking at the reviews, it's a perfectly good meter. I somewhat doubt that it will last, but certainly as a first meter/in my case as something to use until I can afford something better, you really can't knock it. I got mine for £25, including case, probes and postage. Insanely cheap.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 03:49:56 pm
content: EDIT: My remarks apply only to test equipment buyers in the US - market conditions differ greatly for the rest of the world.I don't understand the philosophy of: buy a new, cheap meter that you "somewhat doubt that it will last." Why not buy a used Agilent or Fluke that you can be sure will last?I know everyone has differing opinions, and to each their own, but I think one does oneself a disservice to buy a lesser quality new meter instead of a higher quality used meter.A Fluke 27 can be had for 20 bucks and will outlast that Vicy piece of feces by a long shot. I'm sure there are used meters that can be had for the price of the Vicy that will match its features. I know the 27 doesn't, but it is less costly. That seems to be a MAJOR factor to the Vicy buyer.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 03:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on January 13, 2014, 03:49:56 pmConsider that outside the US, fluke and Agilent meters (new and used) sell for between 2-4x the US price and you have your answer as to why people consider Chinese meters.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 04:01:50 pm
content: My apologies to all for forgetting that this is an international forum, and not paying attention. I suppose I should edit my post to add that my remarks apply to US buyers only - conditions are different in other areas of the world.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 04:06:39 pm
content: If you're gonna use it daily, or use it on mains all the time, then sure. But if it's for an occasional use, mostly electronics, what are the real advantages of more expensive ones?Though, in this case I wonder about the relative merit of the the newcomers in the $25-50 (international) range over the VC99.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 04:17:53 pm
content: I'd think that, for occasional use, I'd be more likely to have one of high quality, because I wouldn't be as quick to notice any drift. Just because I use a tool infrequently, doesn't mean I wouldn't want a high quality tool. My point is, a used "expensive" meter can be had for the cost of a new lower quality meter. Why buy a lower quality meter, even for occasional use, when one can have a good one for the same money?I don't use a hacksaw very often, but the one I have is a used, quality tool with a quality blade. I didn't buy a "one hung low" saw just because I don't use one very often.If one is somewhere where one can't buy a used meter inexpensively, then one must buyswhat one can afford. As I said above, I'm speaking of those with that choice.So one doesn't think one will be measuring the mains. Things change. Buy a quality tool and one has that option, if it is ever needed.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 04:24:09 pm
content: Buying a VC99 is a crapshoot IMHO. I would have chosen a Digitek DT2843R before the VC99.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 04:34:28 pm
content: If you can cope with its limitations, the 6,000 count Fluke 101 is very well made and sells for about 50$ in most places. It is very reliable and precise. Love mine.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 08:07:25 pm
content: Excavatoree: I can see how getting something more expensive would be a good idea if money wasn't an object, but that's not always the case. You can't always go for the ideal.Wytnucls: Looks a little basic, and seems to cost closer to $60.Lightages: Do you like it for aspects other than build quality?I realized now that the VC99 isn't too quick on its continuity testing. It's starting to look like there still isn't a single meter that covers all the basics right, even more expensive ones. Strange how something like continuity checking is flawed in modern meters. Maybe it's simpler to get a $5-10 meter dedicated for continuity.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 08:31:22 pm
content: My point is that, in some places, a used Fluke is not more expensive. In my opinion, a used Fluke (or Agilent, Gossen etc.) is the most cost effective option. For me, in the US, a used 40 dollar Fluke serves me better than a 60 dollar "cheapie" ever would. If I didn't need capacitance, for example, I could get a 20 dollar used Fluke and be much better off. I could have redundancy.Yes, as someone who corrected me pointed out, markets vary. When and where possible, my choice is a quality used tool instead of a lower quality new tool. I chose to save money by buying used, rather than sacrificing quality. To each their own.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 08:50:32 pm
content: I have a VC99.... I wouldn't recommend them. Lowend meters with some goodness are Uni-T or Digitek. I have both a UT136B and a UT61E and they are fine for the price ($16 and $60). I am in agreement with the others that a decent used quality meter (Fluke, Brymen, Agilent, etc.) would be best.

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 09:09:29 pm
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on January 13, 2014, 08:31:22 pmYes, in some places. You are living in the Fluke 27 wonderland.Just checked Ebay Germany. No used Fluke 27 available. In the last 3 month there were only 4 sold from $55 to $95. So you can get a used Fluke 27 here. Just wait a few years for a reasonable price.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 09:14:18 pm
content: It would be great if used Gossens were inexpensive and readily available in Germany - it would sort of balance out. I'm guessing that's not the case.

author: Sam__
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 09:19:56 pm
content: I have to agree with everyone else and say get a second hand Fluke/Gossen/Other reputable brand if you can. There seem to be a lot of 77 III's that come up in the UK on ebay. You just have to find out what's out there. Even if you have to wait a bit and save up I'd say it's worth it. You're paying for the reliability in the electronics and the mechanicals. I have a Fluke 77 III and just bought another one. I'd be confident in throwing it across the room and it working perfectly fine after, something I perfectly happy to pay for or put the hours in trawling ebay.Where about are you from lpc32? Maybe we could help you look.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 09:31:51 pm
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on January 13, 2014, 09:14:18 pmThey are actually. Readily available used, that is. Not terribly cheaply, though.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 09:55:26 pm
content: ive handled the vichy meters, and the uni-t meters, and i will say that i doubt id ever buy either. im not putting down budget meters, most of mine are, but i think you could do much better for the price.ive never seen anyone really promote the vichy meters, but i have seen a lot of uni-t fan boys, which i just dont get. they dont impress me at all. i have a mastech (which again, no one seems to like) that i would pick any day of the week over any uni-t at 2x the price.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 11:27:17 pm
content: Excavatoree, re used: I suppose that's true if it covers the features one's after. In my case I'm looking for an all-arounder, so older models probably won't do. I'm also a bit wary of used stuff, particularly when I have no good way to assess it even after it's in my hands. But, well, it's all theoretical.don.r: What didn't you like specifically in the VC99?deth: What's wrong with them in your experience?Sam: Thanks. I doubt there are good local sources here for used meters, I'm not in any large market.Anyway, upon further digging, it looks like the UT139C actually might do most of everything, though I haven't yet seen a detailed review, nor found any official manual. The accuracy seems decent, but there's some conflicting info around. Legit-Design says continuity is quick (but autorange is slow). The build looks fine to my untrained eyes:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-trms-uni-t-ut139c-dmm-is-available-now/30/It wouldn't hurt if it were $10 cheaper, though.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 11:50:29 pm
content: I should have been more clear, and more succinct. I apologize for cluttering the thread.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 12:06:19 am
content: Oh, your input is valuable. Didn't mean otherwise. Maybe what I meant came out wrong.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 12:48:26 am
content: They feel cheap. Open one up and its built to a price. If it was fed with a sudden voltage spike it could kill the meter and if it blows I'm not sure the explosion could be contained. Its OK for low level stuff but I can't feel confident that the reading will be accurate. Its drifted about 5 counts from purchase (about a year). My $16 Uni-T feels better, if only slightly.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 01:59:12 am
content: The Fluke 101 has most of the basics, except amps, although an AC clamp is available for it. I paid 33 Euros (46$) for it in Malaysia (150 Ringgits). Obviously not a jack of all trades, but has the most common features, with lightning fast latched continuity.The UT61E is fine for most purposes, but it drifts quite a bit (mine at least) and is, in essence, a 2,000 count meter, as one can't rely on that last digit.I would also recommend Gossen series 1 or 2 meters available in Germany on eBay. Here is a list I compiled of thetrue RMSmeters and what you can expect to pay for them (I have the 26s and 30M):Most of the averaging Gossen meters, with reduced resolution, sell for less than 100 Euros (13s, 14s, 16s, 22s).

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 02:18:47 am
content: Based on what I have seen and read on the internet so far I would say the UT139C is a good buy and a pretty safe meter that probably does meet its CAT rating. It has all the basics, basic accuracy, temperature, picofarad resolution, back light, uses AA batteries, Non Contact Voltage detector, and good input protection. What else can you ask for for $53 shipped to your door or mailbox?If I didn't have too many things on my plate right now, I would buy one just to review it. If I didn't have any other multimeter and needed a relatively safe, well built, and featured meter at low cost, I would be buying the UT139C. My opinion might change once I actually get my hands on one but I don't think it could be so far from what I have learned about it.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 02:19:03 am
content: Quotefirst off, as was said, they just feel cheap. one of the worst parts on cheap meters are the probes. while i would call the ones in the meters suggested (vc99 or uni-t's) "mid range", in that they are a tad bit better than those with the $free-5.00 harbor freight pos meters, but not by much.now, i will say, i really dont worry about accuracy, as other than those $5 meters, i have never seen a meter that was significantly out enough for it to really matter, nor have i ever saw one to drift significantly over time.but other than that, longevity is an issue. again, im not one to dwell on 10' drop tests, because i see no reason a well cared for meter should fall from 10', but to see one get knocked over on a bench and have the switch break (uni-t, it was about a $75 range meter, switch cocked and the springs and bearing detents fell out) is not acceptable, imo. just built cheaply. im not liking using that word, its not that they are "inexpensive", but cheap as in, just outright piss poor quality.again, im not knocking budget meters, i have about 8 dmm's, 2 are used fluke that i got within the last 2 months, the rest are all cheap budget meters. frankly, ive said it before, but i like most of the cheapies better than the flukes. but there are ones that just suck. and, imo, uni-t, vichy, and any of the under $10 pos meters fall into the "suck" category. id really like to try a brymen or 2, but i need another dmm like i need a hole in the head.in summation: i think a lot of the criticisms of cheap meters is uncalled for. obscene torture tests, .00001% accuracy expectations, and the like arent a concern. but having one that dosent fall apart on the bench, one that the screen dosent brick out when you switch ranges, one that the lcd display dosent crap out so you cant read half the digits, ect, is not too much to ask for a cheap meter.this is only what ive observed, ymmv.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 03:21:45 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on January 14, 2014, 02:19:03 amTo be fair, i'd also describe the TL75 probes supplied with a Fluke 87V as being cheap. The tips on mine aren't even molded in straight and the tip ends look like they were cut with a bolt cutter.The probes supplied with a Uni-T UT71 are much nicer. On the other hand the probes supplied with a Uni-T UT204 clamp meter are shitful but you can't really complain because the meter would still be a bargain at $50 inc shipping even if it didn't come with any probes.I'm quite happy with the build quality of the UT71. If it had higher quality input jacks and a rubber holster i'd wager that it would stand up to the same amount of abuse as an 87V.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 05:08:10 am
content: The probes I got with an old stock UT71B are excellent, low resistance and silicone wiring. The ones supplied with the 71D were ok, but unwieldy with their stiff PVC wires. I replaced them with Fluke's TL175.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 07:35:50 am
content: I have a 99. I don't think it feels cheap, but that's entirely a subjective thing. It does the job for my purposes, it's the most expensive of an assortment of cheap-ass meters that I give regular use to.However there's a couple things that I hate1. the tilting bail (stand) sucks2. no backlight3. the auto-off is f'ing annoying, if I'm doing a lot of continuity testing (checking for shorts on etched pcb for example) the autooff still triggers after a while even though I'm using it, it should reset the timer on "activity"4. the thermocouple is crappyThere is a mod you can do to it to give data connectivity somewhere, always intended to do that and try to add some lighting too but never got around to it.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 01:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: TMM on January 14, 2014, 03:21:45 amlike i said "this is only what ive observed, ymmv."ive used/had 3 different uni-t's, i dont recall the models, but after those 3 it firmly secured the "shit" position of them in my mind. i havent tried every model, so i will not argue that some may be good. maybe i lucked out and got the shit that slipped through qc 3x and the rest of them are the greatest meters ever, but ive made my opinion through my personal experience, and thats what the op asked for, and thats what it is, an opinion. not trying to start a brand war or anything.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 11:12:12 pm
content: don.r, is the drift easy to fix with the trimpots?Seeing Wytnucls's tables makes me wonder. Wouldn't it be nice to have here a wiki with info on multimeters? Anyone could add info on new meters, review links, summary tables, etc.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 12:36:52 am
content: Quote from: lpc32 on January 14, 2014, 11:12:12 pmYes. Unfortuneately since the screws are self tappers and the trimpots are on the opposite side of the board you have to remove all four case screws AND the two board screws to get to the pots. You would need to do this as well to replace the (glass) fuses. Its not something I would want to do too often as I can see the plastic receiver holes for the screws wearing out after a while. I have already had to replace on of the mounting screws with a wider one.