Why don't hand held meters have a event counter feature? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 11:02:52 pm
content: I figured after Dave showed how to hack a calculator for his lap counter we would see an event counter in the 121GW. Imagine, it could be triggered from a low resistance or a high voltage. It could even be protected, making it very generic. I've never seen a handheld multimeter with this feature but often have wondered why not.Here is my AC power dropout monitor. This is one of those devices that tracks how many steps you take. Debounce is already handled.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 11:06:11 pm
content: Just never thought of it.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 11:18:12 pm
content: Obvious feature that no one have thought of.The nixie clock (TTL logic) I built in 1977 had extra modes. Time input A was high, time between input A pulse and input B pulse, and number of A pulses. I used this to test devices I designed and sold at that time.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 05:23:12 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 30, 2018, 11:02:52 pmMy guess is that says most of it - if it never got added, no one's going to expect it out of one and they're much less likely to design it in - it would probably suit a data recorder style meter, but a more standard meter design typically doesn't have much long term storage features in general, so I don't know if designers are likely to look for adding features for long term data keeping, even if an arbitrarily long time limit isn't a requirement.Wouldn't be hard to add, by any means, and while you could probably get it built in easy enough on the 121GW or similar meters, you'd be missing it from the silkscreen and whatnot. Since a meter like that can communicate to another device, it's quite easy to add the feature to an app or a PC based serial connection.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 05:27:29 am
content: EDIT: No, I'm thinking of anelectricalevent counterTo get it working universally you'd need some configurables:Threshold (or dynamic threshold movement speed)Noise filterEven just a short pre-defined set of these you can switch between (eg through a button press) would likely be good enough, however.The closest I have is a Hz mode on my DMM.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 05:40:19 am
content: Good idea Joe, and would it be a useful addition to the GW121 meter! A high/low transition of voltage or resistance to trigger an event counter.What do you think Dave?Sub menu item under the R/V selection switch and made available in the Win, Apple and Android apps. Would add value to the meter for all users and increase salesI dont think Joe has a patent pending and would forgo any royalties, its just a damn good idea!

author: Peter63
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:43:26 am
content: I'm thinking, "how to protect this function?"...

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:52:48 am
content: Quote from: Peter63 on July 01, 2018, 07:43:26 amOnce activated, by default set the input sensitivity at the highest volt range ?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 09:13:45 am
content: The Gossen MetraWatt Ultra can be set to record only values in a range so instead of counting it would record the voltage each time (with a time stamp), but that is hardly a convenient count function, you'd have to look at the size of your data to get the count.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 09:56:41 am
content: I guess things like universal counters need settings for the trigger, features like freqency, mean avg. And battery life is a dealbreaker for something, which by nature takes time.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 01:54:10 pm
content: It goes against the design philosophy that says "Do one thing (or small set of things), and do it well". It's quite easy to have creeping featureitis in an instrument like a multimeter and it tends to lead to a device that becomes too complicated to set up and use easily, and whose extra features are at best second rate.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 01:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on June 30, 2018, 11:18:12 pmThis basically sounds like one of my old HP counters. I also will use a PC to count events using some sort of embedded data acquisition system. For my motorcycle, I use a counter and offload the data to a PC once I am done riding. Some tests I run, I really only need a counter and these are not a good fit. I've bought panel mount counters from Digi-Key that would well. They are small, battery powered and will run for years.A handheld would be even better for some of my testing. No PC or other equipment required, battery powered, simple to use and don't take up much space. Personally, I don't need to count event faster than a Hz normally. If I do, I am using the frequency counter or the DAS with a PC. Programmable thresholds for voltage/resistance and filter would be nice but really, the panel counters I use just have a fixed debounce time. Most cases, this may be good enough.Quote from: EEVblog on June 30, 2018, 11:06:11 pmPlease consider it.Quote from: 1anX on July 01, 2018, 05:40:19 amI'm guessing it's a novel idea, like that auto back light dimmer that UNI-T now offers.I was a bit surprised that the automotive meters I looked at did not have it. I was going to use my Fluke 97 scope meter, but it does not support it. You can set the trigger event counter but it would display the actual number of events. My other scopes will but again, these are overkill for most of the times that I need a simple event counter.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 02:43:35 pm
content: Would you rather have an instrument that did one thing well, or two things poorly?Beware of wanting an "eierlegende Wollmilchsau"!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 03:08:45 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 01, 2018, 02:43:35 pmThe middle M stands for?I can understand your point. Someone recently posted about the overly complex interface on the Fluke T6. I think the worse interface I have seen is on the Gossen. If I used the meter every day, it would be fine but if I picked it up right now, I would need the manual. The UNI-T UT181A also has a fair number of features but because the stole the UI from Fluke, I find it easy to maneuver. In the case of the 121GW, it going through some growing pains which I'm sure that people not used to development may think they may never get it sorted out so why make it even a bigger job. I'm optimistic that eventually they will have a solid product. I will leave to the developers to decide if they feel it's worth going after and what the risks are.To me, the 121GW is targeted towards the electronics group and at least in my case, I would find this particular feature useful.https://youtu.be/XXdhbzAri4Q?t=916But this is an electronics meter. The most complex meter I have looked at is the Gossen

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 03:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 30, 2018, 11:02:52 pmCount events up to what frequency?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 03:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on July 01, 2018, 03:16:24 pmCheck post #11 above.

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 09:24:45 pm
content: Is it possible to implement that as Hz function mode in firmware of 121GW? That would be a useful feature.

author: bicycleguy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 12:26:58 am
content: Seems like the log function which already puts the log count on the secondary display would be well suited. Just need to setup the trigger.

author: mqsaharan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 07:45:55 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 30, 2018, 11:02:52 pmWell, as far as the high voltage part goes, some multimeters like U1282A have event logging function (using its min/max or peak mode) where the reading is automatically recorded into its memory. Since it also records the number of events in its secondary display along with the value, it could be used as a counter (obviously not as a generic counter) but it is limited to a maximum of 10000 entries only. Also, it will need a new value above its threshold for each event in order to be used as a counter.