Making comments on Google services - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 10:39:10 pm
content: Is it me or comments sections on various Google services like Maps or YouTube became Shadowban Central as of late? I mean, got from slightly annoying to FUBAR?Got treated like garbage in a local store once (that sells electronic components, BTW) so went to Google Maps and tried to describe my experience while keeping it civil and to the point. Of course, my comment was visible to me while logged into my Google account but was nowhere to be seen when I opened the webpage using Incognito Mode. Being a stubborn MoFo I am, I wasted close to an hour trying to figure out which particular word could have offended The Algorithm. It was only after I completely rephrased my comment, essentially stripping it of any actual details after the comment actually stuck.Fast forward today, made a brief, balanced comment on a YouTube video. Some guy responds with a diatribe accusing me of all sorts of weird things, making wild assumptions about my person, essentially trying to bully me. I try to respond, again, no profanity, keeping it polite - same story. Even for me there is only so much time I am willing to waste on such nonsense so I gave up on that one but being attacked and then denied the chance to respond feels awful and infuriating. At that point I think Google has just flagged me as "we don't like this guy" somewhere.If anything, that made me promise myself to move everything I still have with them (mostly YT subscriptions at this point) out of Google and delete my account.How about you? Are you checking that your comments are actually visible to anyone other than you?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 11:46:01 pm
content: I've had a few comments on YT removed for no apparent reason. They were always polite and sourced. Judging from the way and time they disappeared, it was most likely automatic removal from YT algorithms.Even though it's just on a few comments and thus can't be analyzed properly, the apparent pattern is that in all cases, I had added one or more links to my comments (to source what I was saying!) YT seems not to like links very much. That was possibly due to some keywords found in those links, I don't know for sure. But something you could definitely try: make a bunch of comments without any link, then a bunch of comments with links. And see what happens.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 01:14:52 am
content: I don't think paranoia or conspiracy is justified. But it can certainly seem that way to some people. Consider:Most of this stuff (auto moderation, spam/abuse prevention, etc.) is done by scripts, machine learning, etc. All notoriously flaky stuff with mediocre false positive/negative rates. Just good enough to save on labor, which is their primary motive. They lose a lot of innocent messages in the process, even a few good ones; and they strike fairly randomly. So, consider the effect of that randomness: randomly speaking, some people will just have all the bad luck, and get the impression of being targeted. Which, they're right to think: without a global view, how could they know otherwise? Conversely, some people will manage to never see it and think the system is working perfectly; still others will send hateful or spammy messages all the time and never seem to face any repercussions. Or outright bots with obvious bot comments, that by random chance, simply pass through undetected.I don't mind, personally. Talk is cheap, and the audience on any important video is already so vast, I have no hope of my comments being read by anyone of importance. On the occasion I do comment on such videos (i.e., something with 10k+ views), I do so more in the hope that it's useful to some random viewer that sees it.Which is another thing, messages tend to be displayed completely randomly, nevermind how insightful you feel your post is -- if it simply never gets viewed and upvoted, it may simply go unread forever.As for Maps, I don't know to what extent they have reporting/moderation, particularly at behest of the location owner, but that's a thing at other review sites as I recall (glassdoor for example). Such sites are as much vulnerable to brigading (users team up to spam negative content, not necessarily having been actual customers/employees/etc.) and astroturfing (e.g. companies giving a small bonus to employees who write favorable reviews on the site) as they are to direct corruption (paying the site to take down negative reviews; in effect, charging a ransom to clear negative reviews, reviews that are likely poorly curated if at all). (By "corruption", I mean from either side: a company paying to remove legitimate reviews to improve its perception, or paying to remove illegitimate reviews that shouldn't have been there in the first place.) So, in addition to the above, take that into consideration as well.Finally, the other major method of moderation is community based. Simply put: if a comment receives enough reports, it's probably worth removing. Nevermind if it's subject to any of the gaming listed above. No idea how significant this is on YT or Maps, but it seems likely they use the method at least. Pretty sure it's relevant on Imgur and Reddit. The latter certainly has more than enough scale in community size and self-organization, that it's a prime battleground / test case for brigading and astroturfing (and for which, the admins have various methods to monitor and mitigate such operations).Tim

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 02:18:11 am
content: I wouldn't mind if the automatic removal was instead masked and left to the channel owner for review. I have it set to this but there are comments still being trashed. I just had a valid comment from a long time subscriber removed because it had a link on it.Oh well... Idiosyncracies of such platforms.

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 02:42:52 am
content: Links are problematic because the target could be changed later, opening the door to malicious targets. The automation probably doesn't want to keep checking links.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 05:08:05 pm
content: Yep. Valid non-offensive comments on the topic of the video get deleted all the time. Multiple times I went back to correct or add something and the comment is gone. Or may be just not shown to you? Some selective "helpful" algorithm to spare you from reading so many comments?

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 08:01:45 pm
content: I had one on youtube disappear a couple weeks ago, it was actually up long enough it got a reply and I think a heart from the channel owner, not a shadow thing, it's not in my comment history.IIRC the text read "google "death capacitor"" (in reference to the paper and foil not Y caps in old audio gear), I guess that was too nasty for the algorithm.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 10:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: retiredfeline on December 13, 2021, 02:42:52 amOK, that may be one of the reasons then. (But by that reasoning, links should be banned everywhere then, just in case? How useful would the web be without links?)But then that makes sourcing harder. This just pushes people to say things without backing them up. As long as you insert no link and you use no "suspicious keyword", you can write a lot of crap that will remain untouched. =)

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2021, 11:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 13, 2021, 10:27:29 pmThat's why there's no foolproof method and automation will make mistakes. Some targets will be regarded as safer than others, some commenters will be more trusted, some subjects will be more controversial than others. But it cannot always be right. People don't realise how much of the world is run by algorithms and not people for which there might be recourse for appeal.