Audiophoolery Bumblebee Capacitors  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 04:03:14 pm
content: apparently these Bumble Bee Capacitors the "magic tone"Straight from Gibson Guitar’s Historic Re-issue guitars come Gibson Gear’s new Historic Spec series – parts that have been specially designed to replicate the original parts used by Gibson in the late 1950s. This two-item set of .022 mfd Bumble Bee Capacitors look, perform and sound just like the original capacitors, which were used on late ’50s Les Pauls and vintage SGs. Famous for their tone (and their stripes!), the Historic Spec Bumble Bee Capacitors are specially made for Gibson and can help you achieve that sweet, full tone our legendary instruments are famous for. Put a little sting in your guitar.http://store.gibson.com/historic-spec-bumble-bee-capacitors-two-pack/

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 04:45:21 pm
content: I was just thinking today "I should set up an audiophile shop, rebadge random junk and sell it at a premium."But, it looks like someone beat me to it.Dave -- next subject for Teardown Tuesday??

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 04:59:26 pm
content: Dear Sionyn:--Brilliant post. Even the comments in the pieces are priceless. Case in point:"Saskohttp://www.vacuumtube.com/capa...So these guys sell various types of caps anywhere up to $50 a piece, yet Gibson is a rip off people? Most of you clearly have no idea how business works, and being that I own a guitar with these fitted as standard, I'd say Gibson probably know a thing or two more than all of you when it comes to great guitar tone and what is involved in achieving it. I did my research and i found that all capacitors do not cost 10 - 20 cents some of them yes but some are even more expensive then gibson the link is just an example if you scroll down there is one silver foil in oil that cost 106 $ twice than a gibson !!!!! now about that they are fake because the cover is plastic and fake nonsense no one can prove that they are not the same as the 50s capacitors all capacitors do not sound the same may be may be they are fake they are overpriced but can someone somehow prove it finaly i don't care anymore ignorance is bliss"--Hilarious! Yeah, "Gibson knows a thing or two" alright. Indeed "i don't care anymore ignorance is bliss" puts it well. The rest of the Thomas Gray quote is " 'tis folly to be wise" Implying that it is foolish not to be foolish, duh.--Still you cannot fault the claim that these new Bumblebees look and sound like the originals."We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."Benjamin Franklin 1706 - 1790Best RegardsClear Ether

author: dino
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 05:06:50 pm
content: There is always the "mojo" factor, when speaking of guitar/amp electronics, the cooler the part looks, the "better" it sound..They still regard carbon composition resistors as tonally superior, put it in their effect boxes, and wonder why do they get noise..I must admit though - carbon composition resistors and tropical fish caps look waay cooler than regular boring components

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 05:23:02 pm
content: What kind of cap is that? Ceramic? I wonder what it's specs are. Do you think its a 10 cent cap or 5 dollar cap they are selling for 60?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 05:37:05 pm
content: someone cut them apart :http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/historics-reissues/118027-historic-gibson-faux-bumblebee-caps.htmlstandard wesco polypropylenes. cost 50 cents ...

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 05:43:36 pm
content: there meant to be oil caps however some these fools and sellers have discovered their foil there was mass hysteria.its not just caps these fools go mad for wiring is the major loss of 'magic sound' there basicly hi/low pass filter and volume potshttp://www.elek-trix.com/blogs/news/6128042-modern-vs-50s-vintage-wiring

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 06:09:21 pm
content: Dear Free_electron:--Great sleuthing. I am awarding you an honorary Calabash Pipe, a Dear Stalker Hat, and a Tweed Cloak. And in this case I am not being faceitious. Gibson has been caught in an out and out fraud. They could not find a source to make real carbon compesition resistors, and so they carefully avoided saying that the new resistors are the same as the old, and merely stated that they sound the same, which is true.--And to Sionyn, please keep up the good work. Dave and Simon should consider making a audiophoolery sticky thread. Oh, and please tell us yank ignoramuses how to pronounce Sionyn.“Before turning to those moral and mental aspects of the matter which present the greatest difficulties, let the inquirer begin by mastering more elementary problems.."Sherlock Holmes 1887 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 06:24:37 pm
content: But such a nice case is worth the extra $112.50 for sure.I see an opportunity, taking standard units and making a mould to do them up, along with some paint for the bands. Sell for $50 a pair and make a killing on eBay.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 07:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 31, 2012, 06:24:37 pmBut then you'd be a scammer. That's not very nice is it?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 07:06:59 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 31, 2012, 07:00:53 pmYou know the saying. Money wont make you happy but it sure helps.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 07:22:07 pm
content: I do maybe 100 bucks a week in vintage carbon composition and wire wound resistors. People buy them for all sorts of reasons. Some go to builders and collectors in asia, some go to music shops, some go to radio restorers. There are places in radios where carbons still work best, and if you're restoring an old Tweed or an MC75 you want original parts in there.This thing with covering them in plastic is not new. It's an old trick also used by restorers - encase a standard part in plastic putty, paint it and replace an old component you can't find. If you're repairing a hole in the Wright Flyer do you just tack down some mylar film and shrink it in place with a heat gun?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 07:25:23 pm
content: Scamming Suckers? Gibson is doing that for sure, i will just be pulling a Chinese Fakery on them. I could market them under the One Hung Lo Bland Clapacitor Comangy.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 11:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on October 31, 2012, 07:22:07 pmyou set that sucker on fire and throw a cow on it and have a block barbeque party. it's 2012 ... we have jet engines these days. Look em up there's two little companies called Boeing and Airbus that do a pretty good job of building a slightly more modern version of the wright flyer. They manage to fly a tad further and higher as well i believe and they have enclosed cabins with food and beverage service a well. there's even rumors they have a color movie theatre on board , each passenger has his/her own screen, but i think that may be exagerated ... they'd never get that off the ground.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 11:57:00 pm
content: A real vintage 1950s Gibson Les Paul with no serial number will set you back some $75,000!https://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/71/lot/27578/These are rare antiques really, so I can see the point of trying to keep it in as original condition as possible. You wouldn't want to replace a piece of wood from a rare piece of antique furniture worth $75k with wood from your local hardware shop."ok guys this is a blues riff in B, watch me for the changes, and try and keep up!" ;-)

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 08:39:01 am
content: Yawn. Fortunately the original Wright Flyer is preserved in the Smithsonian for the appreciation of those who aren’t wingnut cultural jihadists.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------On the topic of stupid capacitors, for more BS than almost anyone could swallow, the V-Cap manufacturers site is a fantastic resource:http://www.v-cap.com/Bargain prices too!http://www.v-cap.com/copper-teflon-capacitors.phpOnly $486 for a 1uF/450V teflon thingie that's almost definately horribly microphonic.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 09:51:24 am
content: 57 and 59 are the ones that pull in the big bucks these days

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 10:20:07 am
content: check the gift page on the v cap siteEven The Baby Knows Its Madness(i bet some one could come up with a great caption for this photo)

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 10:35:13 am
content: I just love this bit in particular (from the "about" page):Expertise from some of the world's most respected engineers and scientists.................... Lastly, while they must remain anonymous, we'd like to extend our sincere gratitude to all the individuals who assisted in the development of all the V-Cap series. From the engineers, production staff, and dedicated master winders, to the musicians, recording engineers and audiophile beta testers who generously donated their time and effort to help evaluate- YOU are part of the V-Cap heart and soul. Thank you.Developed in conjunction with a team of world renowned scientists and engineers who cannot be named!

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 12:57:28 pm
content: Quote from: GK on November 01, 2012, 08:39:01 amOn 60 minutes last week they said that a document thief has stolen the original blueprints and patent paperwork to the first Wright Flyer. Wonder if anyone has checked to see if the Flyer on display is the real thing.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 03:44:19 pm
content: Of course its a replica. The real thing sits in warehouse 13

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 03:51:55 pm
content: Even in the case of restoring a guitar for a museum or something it doesn't make much sense to use overpriced capacitors that look like the original, unless the internals are going to be on display. If it's just for display then it doesn't need to be functional either.Those who think they can hear the difference need to be given a double-blind test; as these caps are naturally hidden inside, that makes it much easier to do. With the exception of the above guitars are meant to be played, and any cap of the right value and ESR will give the same sound; that's what really matters, not what it looks like.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 05:05:13 pm
content: Spoken by someone who doesn't collect. Being operational is a very important part of collecting old equipment. It's like saying you'll never play a Stradivari so who cares if it's in tune? The fact is a collector WILL want to make use of it, and an old piece of equipment that is never turned on will not be operational for long. Having original (or like original) parts inside a guitar or radio chassis or oscilloscope chassis is a very important part of it to a collector.Having said that, I still don't understand how Gibson can get all that money for these old caps when you can buy a genuine NOS K40 PIO cap treated to look like an old bumblebee cap for about 15 bucks.http://www.ebay.com/itm/K40Y-9-PIO-Mil-Spec-022uf-BumbleBee-Repro-Tone-Capacitor-4-Les-Paul-SG-/261109172212?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ccb51c7f4

author: dino
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 07:05:30 pm
content: QuoteThis is OK in my book. For restoration purposes, as poptones said, I would give that guy 24$ for two.however, gibson seems to be run by douchebags, they allready sued the shit out of everyone who made a guitar that resembles les paul, and now this "bumblebee" case..

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 08:32:42 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 01, 2012, 03:51:55 pmYou could put the original engineer of the design directly in front of them telling them what a load of garbage the 'special caps' thing is and they wouldn't believe him , audiophiles only understand one thing, for sound to be good it has to cost a fortune.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 09:12:29 pm
content: It's funny. You know one of the things I've noticed since I've been here is anincrediblystrong herd mentality. Many of you are like hogs going after anything different that enters the pen as food.Actually, it's not funny at all. You sound like a bunch of southern fundamentalists going after scientologists, completely sure that your own chosen dogma is better than the other guy's.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 11:35:30 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on November 01, 2012, 05:05:13 pmHmm, so I am not a true collector as I do collect old equipment (when I can afford it) but do not have problems replacing old capacitors with modern ones. For some devices replacing all electrolytic caps with modern ones is the first thing I do.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 11:47:50 pm
content: I didn't say you're not a "true" collector I just assumed you're not a collector at all. Some people think nothing of putting a chevy 350 in a model A. To many, it's no longer a Model A.If I bought an old scope and someone had replaced all the old caps with new ones, the first thing I would do is try to track down repros of the originals. Perhaps find photographs of the old ones and make some new ones. Gut some old Sprague cans, for example, and stuff them full of modern electros.I find old equipment cool because of the appearance, not the performance. If you muck with the appearance, it loses its mojo.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 12:12:52 am
content: Well, I don't really see the caps without opening the device, so to me a modern cap does not change the appearance (unless it is mounted on top of the case, then I would just leave it in place disconnected and solder a modern cap somewhere out of sight). I do not change the circuit (I would not replace a tube amp with a transistor one) but to me all caps are the same so I might as well use a readily available modern one. To me this does not change the "mojo". On the other hand, hollowing out the old cap and placing a modern one inside feels "fake" to me. I would either get a working old cap (assuming it is not part of the "goes bad quickly" list or use a new one without trying to deceive.What matters to me the most is performance and original external appearance (though I do not really care about scratches and dents, as long as the device is not falling apart).

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 01:13:30 am
content: If you care most about performance it makes no sense to me to use an old device. Why would I spend 800 bucks (for example) on an H-K Citation II amplifier then replace all the caps with something new? It's no longer going to sound original, but it's still not going to perform like something new. You've just destroyed its reason for being.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:17:23 am
content: Because an old tube radio (or tape deck) sounds cool and replacing some capacitors will not change the sound (at least not that I would notice). I also usually spend way less than $800 for a device because I do not have a lot of money.Reel to reel tape decks not only sound good (not all of them obviously) but also look cool and the coolness is not reduced in any way by replacing some capacitors. I wouldn't mind if someone made a new R2R deck with relatively modern components (no digital stuff please), assuming I could afford it.Let's say I have an old device with a bad cap. Some series of caps all go bad - not much point in replacing one that doesn't work now with one that won't work tomorrow. Ok, let's say I could get the caps for the device for $10+shipping (per cap), in this case I would consider whether it would make a big enough difference that I would notice it. If not, I can just go to my local electronics store, buy new caps and have the device working today instead of waiting a few weeks for my order to arrive.I have a radio that on the FM range detunes itself every few minutes for the first 45 minutes after being powered on - I guess some component now have a very high temperature coefficient since I doubt this happened when the radio was new. If I found out which component it was and replaced it with a new one, wouldn't it be better? Also, that radio uses the old FM range (67-77MHz) and there is exactly one station there, wouldn't it be nice to modify it to use the modern range (88-108MHz) to be able to listen to more than one station? Or to mod an old FM Stereo receiver to receive modern broadcasts in stereo (USSR used an incompatible technology).If the H-K Citation II amp doesn't sound as good with new caps then it seems to me that the performance is affected. However, if I would not notice the difference, then I would not care. The amp still looks cool and probably would sound cool too. When I googled for it, the firstlinkI got was about how some guy modified his amp (replaced the caps with new ones, probably audio-grade, resistors etc) to make it sound better (to him).

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:25:21 am
content: Quote from: poptones on November 01, 2012, 11:47:50 pmBut surely you must be joking now ?So you would not repair the wright flyer using a modern material that makes it stronger and will guarantee it will be on display for ages to come , but stuffing one-hung-lo caps in old sprague cans' is ok ...weird way of thinking ...

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:57:09 am
content: Who said anything about wun hung lo? Surely there are other modern caps to be had besides those coming from china's low rent district.Those old Spragues are NOS. I see no point in replacing a 25 year old electro cap with a 25 year old electro cap. There have been limited production runs, but I've not seen any lately.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:59:49 am
content: Because an old tube radio (or tape deck) sounds cool and replacing some capacitors will not change the soundOK, I'll state it flat out: if I replace the old 20uF cans in the power supply of a vintage tube amp with modern photoflash electros (a common update) and you cannot hear the difference, you must have hearing worse than Evelyn Glynnie.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 03:41:53 am
content: Who said about photoflash caps? I just buy a capacitor of the right (or higher) voltage and a similar capacity (so, 22uF instead of 20).Besides, most tube devices I have are not hi-end by any means. For example the radio has FM IF of 4.5MHz. I have not noticed the difference in sound, well apart from the way less 50Hz hum on the speaker, but I do not particularly like the hum.One of my tape decks has a component with high temperature coefficient - when it warms up the recording and playback levels drop a lot - if I manage to find what part is it, I will replace it with one that does not drift that much as I don't think this was part of the design (my other tube tape deck does not behave like this).Also, stuffing modern caps inside the case of an old cap will not make the device sound different than with just the modern caps on their own. So, if I don't want to replace a 40 year old cap with another 40 year old cap I have to use a modern one, but won't bother with stuffing it inside the old one (since, as I said, to me it feels "fake").

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 04:37:03 am
content: Have you looked at the cathode bias of the amplifier in the old tape deck? Old tape decks used the audio stage to drive the tape heads for recording. If it's losing gain during both it seems likely.The article about the Citation II saddens me. It's his to do with as he pleases, but it's sad as that amp is forever changed and can never really be restored. If you want a good tube amp made with all new components just build the damn thing the way you want it and be done with it.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 04:53:50 am
content: Quote from: poptones on November 02, 2012, 04:37:03 amThat seems likely to me too (or some coupling cap losing its capacitance when it gets hot), but I am saving this for when I am in a really good mood (so that I won't get as irritated when I find out that if I take the tape deck out of its case to measure the signals it cools down and starts working normally - intermittent problems are the worst kind).QuoteWell, it can be seen both ways - keeping the amp as original as possible (still it's not wise to use NOS electrolytic caps) to preserve its unique sound or modifying it to sound even better.Same can be said about, say, Leak Troughline Stereo - the consensus seems to be that the tube stages are good but the stereo demodulator (uses 3 germanium transistors) is crap and should be replaced with something better. My personal gripe with the tuner is that the deemphasis filter is not buffered, so the frequency response is only correct if the input impedance of the amp is 47K, I am thinking of making a buffer out of a subminiature tube (or maybe even increase the output - 20mV is too low for my cassette deck (record level all the way up results in -3dB on a loud station and there's a rater quiet station I listen to sometimes).My tuner has modern-ish electrolytic caps (replaced by the previous owner) and new detector diodes (Shottky diodes instead of the original germanium ones since I could not find them for sale and one diode was shorted). I am also prepared to replace a worn out tube with a Soviet equivalent (if there is one) because I have a box of them and they are relatively cheap.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 05:38:43 am
content: Wow, now that is seriously cool. I never saw one before, would love to have it.http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-81-Classic-Telefunken-Stereo-ECL82-Tube-Amplifier-In-Operating-Condition-/330816137313?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d062da861#shIdYou can buy a modern Audio Research used for about a grand if you shop around. A Citation II will set you back that much if you're lucky. So basically we're looking at two amps that are usually about the same price. Difference is one is modern and will have modern specs, the other is a classic and will not have modern specs. It's sad to rip the soul out of a collectible vintage piece of gear to try making it perform like something you can buy off the shelf today.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 06:40:41 am
content: Quote from: poptones on November 02, 2012, 05:38:43 amMe too. It's a bit underpowered for my tastes, but would probably sound really great for older music.QuoteI admit, chainging the sound of an old device to be more like a modern device is a bit misguided (unless the old device sounds good by modern standards and you can make it sound even better). However, I still don't think that replacing a failed capacitor with a modern one would change the amp that much. I could even use a resistor in series with the new cap to simulate higher ESR of the old cap.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 06:58:59 am
content: I guess I'm just to much of a purist. When I first got involved with vacuum tube audio I had a H-K Ballad that was in incredible condition and I got it for like 100 bucks - you could never do that today. And I liked the sound of the little 6bq5 amp a lot - it had incredible soul when playing stuff like Soundgarden or Stone Temple Pilots but it lacked "oomph" when playing techno, so I set into it. I replaced the 5U4 with a rectifier board and a few hundred uF of power supply filtering, replaced all the .01uF ceramic coupling caps with orange drops, replaced the ancient wiring with some nice kynar insulated copper, rewired the speaker selector switch to become a "straight through" connection and... was left with an incredibly ballsy, "I want to scream in your ear just how tough a 6BQ5 amp can sound" integrated that had almost none of its original character. And what's sad is I had ANOTHER of the exact same chassis that didn't work, I was just too set on the one I had working to tackle using the same exact iron I had sitting unused in a box. It was a beautiful amp with cool grey modern knobs and a lovely unscratched coral anodized aluminum front panel extrusion and I ended up selling it to a young friend who loved the zen of it but had no history with tube gear and so was oblivious to the heresy I had committed upon this poor amplifier.Now, I won't even replace a ceramic coupling cap. What comes out goes back in, at least as close as possible. Every decade or so TRW builds another batch of twist lock caps to those old specs, one just has to be watchful.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 09:37:20 am
content: Quote from: poptones on November 02, 2012, 06:58:59 amSo, you overreacted n my opiniongoing from "I want to modify this amp to sound the way I like" to "I won't touch anything inside".As I never modified an amp to sound different, I treat the components the same regardless of their date of manufacture. Broken cap = replace it with a new one of the same (or higher) voltage and similar capacity. After all, I would not be able to get the original USSR made electrolytic caps - even if I did, they would just dry out the same way the old ones did (if the NOS ones are not dry already).Similar with orange cap disease in Nakamichi tape decks - I don't think any Nakamichi deck owner would want to replace the bad caps with caps that would go bad soon.When I replace coupling caps I get what I can find at the local store - if the original cap was ceramic and the store has a ceramic cap of that voltage/capacity I buy it, otherwise I buy a film cap. I replaced one cap (paper I think) that was really leaky (took me a while to figure that one out) with a Wima cap rated for 1kV - this was because otherwise the Wima cap was too small to fit in the holes of the PCB. The radio sounds just like I remember it sounding before that old cap got leaky.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 01:02:48 pm
content: hi, I've just emailed Gibson about the caps and why they are so expensive, If I get a response I'll post it here.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 01:47:16 pm
content: How much would you bet the difference people claim to hear when they change the caps out for new ones of the same value are because the old caps have dried out and changed value/increased ESR?In that case wouldn't replacing them with new ones restore how the equipment originally sounded, which is what the collectors are after? Or do they prefer the degraded sound of bad caps?...speaking of degraded sound from bad caps...http://www.dhtrob.com/keesolaf/elco_en.phphttp://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/elna1_en.phphttp://www.dhtrob.com/keesolaf/condensator_en.php

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 07:44:28 pm
content: You wouldn't be surprised poptones is talking lots of nonsense off his head, he involves in audiophoolery "black magic" after allAfter all this who wants to buy a big lot of vintage caps from china for cheap and then open a Ebay shop?I want to!

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 08:18:30 pm
content: Yeah imagine, someone around here who isn't a dogmatist.If you could buy "big lots" of vintage parts from China I wouldn't have customers begging me to ship mine there. I do alright selling those "audiophool" parts. How about you?