DMM upgrade - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 05:41:41 am
content: I hate to post this after all of the DMM comparisons and reviews that have been posted. But I don't feel like I know which one I should pick up. I already have a crappy Radio Shack pocket DMM, so it's not like I am entirely without a meter. But I don't trust that thing further than I can throw it, and certainly won't use it to check anything to do with mains line voltages.I mostly deal with low voltage and low current stuff, although occasionally I need to poke around in 120v systems for home wiring tasks.A few models have caught my eye:Agilent U1241BFluke 117Uni-T 71E (not the 61E, which lacks a backlight)The Agilent and Fluke models are interesting to me because they probably have safer input protection (assuming the 71E has the same protections as the 61E). But the Uni-T 71E has much better specs all around, such as the much higher resolution (40,000 count compared to 6,000 for the Fluke and 10,000 for the Agilent). All three have True RMS, backlight (very important for me), analog bar graph, and of course the basics. The UT71E seems to be the only one of the three that supports USB for data logging. I'm not sure that would be useful to me, but meh maybe so.Without digging around too much, I have found these prices:Agilent: $203, direct from Agilent websiteFluke: $160, from tequipment.netUni-T: roughly $200, from assorted ebay sellersSo I guess at this point I'm not really sure which to go with. The UT71E wins from a feature standpoint, but the input safety worries me. I also in general prefer to buy direct from the manufacturer when possible, or at least from some kind of established online storefront - and it doesn't seem like the UT71E is obtainable that way?I have also considered that for the price difference, I could go with the lower-resolution Fluke and spend the difference on a UT61E from Franky - thereby having two good meters (just one wouldn't have the backlight).Suggestions? Or anything I might have missed in this price range ($150 - $200)?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 06:51:56 am
content: I am biased against Uni-T for anything above $60 mainly because they have almost no input protection and they have lied about the CAT ratings. This is fact. If a company lies about one thing that important how trustworthy are they on the rest of their specs?Having said that, the UT61E is a good buy for the accuracy it has. Keep it out of the wall socket and you have a decent meter except for the other really bad thing of Uni-T meters, their burden voltage. It really is horrible. The UT71D is a much better buy than the UT71E as they have the same accuracy but the D has big stand-alone logging capabilities vs the E with its power measurement capability but who cares about that if it isn't really safe for this? If you are never going to measure mains then I would say that UT71D isn't too bad a buy. If you think you will ever be tempted to poke around in a distribution box, then NO to anything Uni-Trend!The Agilent U1241B is a nice meter, yes. You can't feel bad for buying that meter at that price. It is safe, and relatively well featured for the price. Get this anytime instead of the Uni-T if you have the slightest idea you will be playing in the power distribution panel.Fluke 117? Why? It doesn't have microamps. It is more an electrician's meter rather than a electronics meter. Yes it is really safe but so is the Agilent.For an all around electronics meter the Amprobe 37XR-A is a good buy at $130 plus shipping.http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/multimeters/37xra.htmNo PC connection but I am not sure many people ever use this feature. It also appears safe for mains use.Here is a suggestion. Get two meters. One for features and one for safety and then have two meters for the projects where you want to measure current and voltage at the same time.The Amprobe AM-270 for $90 from testequipmentdepot.com plus shipping, plus the UT61E for $55 including shipping from iloveelectronics here on the forums. With the AM-270 you get a safe meter to probe wall sockets and such, and with a with low burden voltage. The UT61E for a higher count meter meter for higher accuracy and PC connection built in. Both TRMS, both well built. Both bad back lighting but who works in the dark?Really, this would be a better setup than trying to kill all measurements with one stone! It is also well within your budget.Just my two cents here.BTW, hold off on any idea to get a UEi DM397 ( a real good buy if it is not a lemon) until I get my replacement and can see if I got a lemon or a regular POS or not.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 07:56:04 am
content: Quote from: MacAttak on April 14, 2013, 05:41:41 amIf you are not opposed to buying used Flukes off ebay, you can easily get 1 or even 2 Flukes.For under $200, you can easily get an used Fluke 87V.Other Fluke models that support True RMS, backlight, analog bar graph and supports microamps are: 87, 87 III, 87V, 85 III, and Fluke 28 II.The original Fluke 87 goes for about $100 on ebay and the 87 III around $135.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 08:39:49 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on April 14, 2013, 07:56:04 amHe sniped my idea. Used 87* are one of the best buys around. If you're lucky, you can find one locally in whatever classifieds are popular there. This will allow you to inspect the meter and possibly test that it functions correctly. If you buy online, I'd take care to buy from a reputable buyer as pictures can only tell you so much.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 08:45:48 am
content: When you are paying $200 for a meter, I'd rather get a reputable brand.I'd personally rather have the Agilent with less features than the Uni-T.It's going to be more reliable, safer, and comes with a cal certificate.Forget the Fluke, it's for electricians.If you want Uni-T, there are lower prices options available.But yes, the Uni-T offers the best bang-per-buck if that's what you are after.Check out some Brymens, might be something there.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 09:39:46 am
content: I mostly deal with low voltage and low current stuff, although occasionally I need to poke around in 120v systems for home wiring tasks.I initially wanted to say buy the Agilent, but in my view a 10,000 count meter is a pain, if you deal with low currents.You only have a 100 mA range on mA selection, which means you will constantly move your leads between the mA and A jacks, to read higher currents.(Actually, I found out that the Agilent has a 440mA range, so it is not a problem)At that 200$ price, the Agilent is a no-brainer. Solid reputation and good warranty. The only drawback I can find is the closed-case calibration, which is usually expensive. Capacitance range is narrower with the lowest selection at 1000nF (40nF on the 71D). Frequency range is lower at a max of 1MHz, compared to 400MHz for the 71D. The secondary display is only for temperature measurements on the Agilent.If you prefer the UNI-T 71D, it has all the features you will need and is great on the bench.Input protection is not the best, but it has aural warnings on the current jacks and at your 120V voltage, those FF glass fuses are rated up to 6kA. Good enough for the occasional work around the house. The fuses are also cheap to replace, unlike the mA HRC fuses.There is a good store in Hong Kong, where I bought mine. They take overseas orders too. Contact them for the latest prices. I paid about 160$ for the D model, with a three year local warranty.http://www.weclonline.com/eng/productdetail.asp?id=50127140

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 10:15:08 am
content: My advise would be to buy a DMM for electronics with all the features you need and for the house wiring get something like a Duspol. Those are not expensive, but fully protected and let you add a load to check RCDs and to deal with phantom voltages (something DMMs don't support).

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 05:27:10 pm
content: I forgot to mention the Fluke 87 IV, 89 IV, 187 and 189 all meet your criteria and offer dual display, 50,000 count, etc.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 07:00:13 pm
content: I'm leaning towards the Agilent plus a UT61E (for when I need dual measurements). That's going to be a little over my preferred budget, but I think it probably matches what I want most closely. I really do need the backlight for everyday usage - my bench isn't dark but the lighting is such that reflections make it very difficult to read an LCD display that does not have a backlight.I'm not very keen on buying used precision tools from ebay, especially the Flukes I have seen going for those prices. They look rather badly abused, and the ones that look good or are new sell for much higher.Regarding the safety of probing the residential mains lines - bear in mind that until now I have always used something like this to check for energized lines:http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Industries-61-503-Twin-Tester/dp/B000NBCD2OIn my defense, I worked for an electrician in the early 90's who had been doing it for at least 40 years, and that's what he taught me. He had two of those (to always double-check) plus a clamp-on ammeter in his toolbelt - and no other form of electrical test gear. In fact, he taught me that for probing hot lines, it was actually safer to fold one lead of the tester back into your hand and use the free lead for the probing. The indicator bulb would still light up when you hit a hot line even though your body is pretty much floating. It actually worked, but I'm not particularly sure how we never got zapped (we did not wear gloves, and went through no particular precautions to ensure that we weren't grounded).

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2013, 11:09:43 pm
content: Good choice. You can't go too wrong buying Agilent nor Fluke. They aren't always the best value for the money but you can rely on their safety and quality.The UT61E is a nice bench meter with some really nice value for the money. Keep its use for electronics and it will be a good meter.

author: Huluvu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2013, 06:08:02 am
content: Quote from: madires on April 14, 2013, 10:15:08 amI never using a DMM for home wiring tasks if there is a Duspol available (I have the "Duspol Expert" from Benning since many Years)

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 06:53:12 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on April 14, 2013, 07:56:04 amOr a brand new 87V with all the extras for $120 BIN.http://www.ebay.com/itm/121095861611

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 09:24:18 am
content: Or this one if you missed the previoushttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-87-V-5-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-/271190727879?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f243a1cc7

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 04:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on April 16, 2013, 06:53:12 amThat one would have been good - the listing didn't mention model number so I totally missed it in my searches.Although I guess that's also the reason it went for such a low bid. They usually go for over $200 in fairly banged up condition.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 04:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: Huluvu on April 15, 2013, 06:08:02 amThis emphasizes the fact that safety in a meter is not to be taken lightly. I have read that it is forbidden to use a multimeter to measure mains in some countries. I assume this is because there are so many faked rating on meters it is impossible to police them and this was the one safe instrument that could be controlled.But if a person has a multimeter and nothing else on hand to measure mains, guess what they will do? They will cross their fingers and try it.The Agilent U1241B will be fine for anything you throw at it within its ratings. It is a very well built and safe meter with good accuracy and features. If the OP wants to up his budget to get it I am glad to see it. The UT61E will be a nice second meter for when he needs to measure two things at once in his designs or troubleshooting.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 05:01:30 pm
content: I've got a 1241, 1211 and a 1272, all of which are still performing very nicely for me in tough, real world conditions and I trust them all. I wouldn't worry about the calibration very much. Check your new meter on a known voltage (something DC) and repeat that test over time. Agilent's aren't designed to be adjusted later on, so calibration is a drift measurement. If it drifts that much, it will do it again if you adjust it, so what's the point? Better to know that it's drifted and get a new meter.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 05:12:33 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on April 16, 2013, 04:20:02 pmA DMM is simply the wrong tool for electrician's work because it has a high impedance input and you need a third hand to hold it. A Duspol-like tool doesn't require a third hand and forces you to keep your eyes at your hand holding the display part while testing. If you got parallel wires, one with mains (for an outlet) and another one for switching (lamp), the DMM will show you mains voltage for the switched wire, even if it's off (coupled in by the other wire). With an electician's tool you simply add a load and are able to tell if the wire is switched on or off.