Benchtop P&P machine for large/thick parts. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 03:19:22 am
content: There are several parts which we place thousands and thousands of which are too large (or more accurately too thick) for any available feeder on our manncorp machine. These are generally ethernet magnetics or other similar physically large components. To clarify: the problem is that these are often on a 32mm or similar tape, and the pockets are deep enough that they aren't compatible with a tight turning radius. On the manncorp/autotronik feeders this is an issue since the waste tape goes through a fairly tight bend which is too tight for these tapes (but fine for pretty much anything else).I've got some surface mount connectors I'm considering using which are bigger still which means more of an issue.Currently we're putting the components in the tray area (either into a custom tray or in a cut strip holder). This is acceptable, but still not all that efficient. But, it's also starting to be that the tray area is very precious since there are more and more TQFP's and similar which need the tray area.In the past I considered buying one of the chinese p&p machine for the low volume parts we use (8mm taped, a few hundred per year of each type), but decided for the lower volume just dropping them on by hand is more efficient. But it occurs to me that these larger parts might work perfectly on one of these assuming they can feed these larger/thicker parts and deal with the 'waste tape' in a way which doesn't require a tight bend.So far, nothing looks like it will handle a 32mm tape.... has anyone had any experience with these larger tape sizes on a low-end P&P machine?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 04:35:36 am
content: Sounds like its time for you to buy a good 2nd hand machine.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 06:16:40 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on October 01, 2018, 04:35:36 amI would accept as an answer specific details about which second hand machines don't have this problem. I've looked at various feeders and am finding that it looks like many of the 'high end' feeders might have this same issue since they have a pretty tight diameter waste tape path.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 06:24:46 am
content: Quote from: forrestc on October 01, 2018, 06:16:40 amTo follow up to myself: I found a picture of a 32mm panasonic feeder as an example, and it looks like the exiting tape may go toward the middle of the machine. So I guess I need to add a question here:How does the tape exit these feeders, and where does it go?On my autotronik, the waste tape makes a 180* turn and then comes out of the bottom of the feeder back towards the operator. Because the pick lockation is pretty close to the end of the feeder, there isn't enough room between the pick location and the end of the feeder for the tape to make the 180* turn with enough of a radius that the 32mm tapes can actually make the turn. A thicker tape, like those used with RJ45 connectors and the like would only be worse.I'm assuming the higher-end machines have worked through this problem, just haven't used any with these large of tapes to know if they would have a similar issue. Same with some of the low end machines, although I do know some of those kick out their leftover tape toward the pcb working area.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 07:28:20 am
content: On my old old Yamaha YV100-ii i use 32 and 44mm tapes to put some large inductors on, and also, some big ethernet transfomers. The tape doestn feed back through the feeder like the 8/12mm tapes. It drops down and goes aroudn the back of the mounting plate,Somethign like this.http://www.ksunsmt.com/cpxx/info_34.aspx?itemid=79&lcid=76&pid=51A good YV100-ii can be picked up for $10-15k depending on hours.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 08:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on October 01, 2018, 07:28:20 amI have a Philips CSM84 (made by Yamaha) which is limited to a component height of 6.5 mm. I know that some machines can handle taller parts, but I think very few can handle anything more than about 12 mm tall.Jon

author: Smallsmt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 08:18:57 pm
content: Our HP machines have 20mm travel way on Z axis.We can move 12mm tall parts over 6mm placed parts.But I don't know if a 32mm feeder is working well.Second Problem the bottom camera has 30x30mm component size limit for adjustment but this can get customized I think.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 08:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: Smallsmt on October 01, 2018, 08:18:57 pmHave you finished your machine? Horrah. I thought you needed another 100,000 Euro. Oh, maybe you are talking about the chinese machines which someone else makes.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 08:28:58 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on October 01, 2018, 08:09:12 pmI place a pretty chunky inductor, from tape. ( wurth 74435586800 ), its 12mm without too much issue. ( its on 44mm tape ). The ethernet transformer we use is 14mm tall, and it places ok as well.