Starting this hobby from scratch in Australia: advice? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Polym0rphed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 07:52:30 am
content: Hi all. My partner and I decided to take up DIY electronics as a new hobby to enjoy together (here in Melbourne, Australia). I had (almost) ALL of my tools stolen a couple of years ago, so this post is about getting all the necessities in order to get started ASAP. We'll be making up numerous audio cables and our projects will be mostly pro-audio oriented.I have watched a number of Dave's videos and have a fairly expansive list of goodies compiled, I just don't know which are the best places to buy everything in as few trips/ships as possible (to cut costs): any suggestions?I have looked at Australian vendors such as digikey, rs-online, mouser, element14, mektronics, oritech ... Oritech has a good price on a genuine FX888D and comes with flush cutters. Is there one single store that would sell everything I'll need at good prices, from solder to hand tools, magnifying lights and whatever else? Maybe one place is good for tools and another for electronics supplies? Maybe Bunnings or another shop is better?Thanks in advance!

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 08:00:05 am
content: Getting harder in Melbourne like all of Oz to get what you need locally, Start withhttps://www.rockby.com.au/index2012.cfmand lesser (now)https://www.radioparts.com.au/if you are not already aware of them. Jaycar if you must or even Altronics still have a few stores in Melbourne.In this part of Vic it is now a 3 hours drive to any of them including their agents

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 06:26:01 pm
content: Quote from: Polym0rphed on June 02, 2020, 07:52:30 amWell that sucks! I think someone running off with my girlfriend would be less traumatic than loosing all of my tools to theft.QuoteShould have posted that list so we know what your thoughts are.QuoteWell yeah but the problem here is there is no one best place. In fact I'd go out of my way to order everything from one vendor. More so I'd try to balance purchases with local suppliers. In the case of tools I'd almost certainly look at what you local supplier to electricians carries. You want to get familiar with at least a few local vendors as they often will save you money over high priced retailers seen on line or the price of stuff at home centers. Don't expect a lot but they should have quality tools like screw drivers, pliers of various types, multimeters. and other tools.QuoteNo! Really the idea of dealing with one vendor may be appealing at first glance but it puts you in a position to make choices based upon what the vendor has. Instead your purchases should be based upon what is right for you and your projects or in this case tool supply.For example for many interests a 1/4" drive socket set might be a good investment, however I really would have a hard time buying from an electronics distributor. Instead I'd look for a local distributor of good tools or an up scale auto parts store. In the USA; NAPA for example has both crap consumer tools and higher quality hand tools under a different brand name.The point here with buying locally (when it makes sense) is that you develop a relationship with the guys behind the counter. They will be far more willing to help you if you are a customer they see every month or so. The same thing goes for electrical supply houses and other vendors you can+ find locally.QuoteMaybe get out of the house and look around? Even something as simple as screwdrivers vary a lot from manufacture to manufacture and many people choose based on the fit in the hand or the reputation for wear resistance. For example Klein in the USA has a good reputation for wear resistant screw drivers and Wera from Germany. The handles are a completely different issue with these two brands.By the way I'm not sure how this works in your country but here we have what are commonly called tool truck brands. Tool trucks are basically tool shops on wheels that drive around selling to mechanics, most of them have a web presence. The common ones are Snap-On, Matco and Mac around here. These operations sell expensive stuff for the most part, but for professional mechanics the warranty service is what they are after. However if you can stomach the cost you can get good tools going this route even if it is mail order. Not everything is unreasonably priced either.QuoteOne more thing - industrial suppliers!!! In the USA these would be places like Graingers, MSC, McMaster-Carr and a whole host of others. Some of these places will not even do business with you if you don't have a business tax number but the ones that will, give you access to more tools than you can imagine. I have to think that there must be similar suppliers down under.Now I know that your wanted one option and I gave you many. When it comes to buying tools I don't like being stuck with one vendor or brand. Rather go with what makes sense for a particular need.

author: JacobPilsen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 07:41:42 pm
content: Don't forget about consumables: resistor set, capacitor set, SMD set.Quote from: Polym0rphed on June 02, 2020, 07:52:30 amI, personally, would prefer FX-951, and not necessarily genuine.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 10:23:17 pm
content: The FX-951 is a good investment, but buy a real one. Or another iron with standby sensor. However there's also nothing wrong with the FX888D for basic use. I still use it when I need to move another iron around the house.I have used Mektronics and Element14. They will often have discounts and specials, so try to hold out for when element14 has a 10/15% voucher to offset the GST.Also don't be tempted by cheap ebay parts. Resistors rarely meet their specs, and transistors and ICs are often fake.For parts in bulk, I have used LCSC, a China based parts supplier. It might be a bit of money up front, but it's worth buying a large selection of resistor values, and capacitors, maybe some basic transitors and ICs etc. Those basic components are where you will save the most money over domestic suppliers.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 11:59:06 pm
content: It seems a lot more of the hobby is now schematic and PCB design work, rather then old-school breadboards, strip boards and jumper wires. Because of this a super-nice soldering iron would be good, but a nice large screen for using KiCAD on would be better!As you get into your chosen CAD package I would focus on building up a library of parts & footprints you know and trust - connectors especially. Also try and make your boards look nice - rounded corners, mounting holes, nice silk screens, add a logo or two. Aesthetics are not my strong point, but the board in the attached image is fine for a test jig.Here are the tools I regularly use- A 'rough and ready' soldering station (for most tasks, cables, connectors)- A nice soldering station (for precision work, fine pitch, and for "two-iron tweezers grab" to remove SMD passives)- Soldering consumables - thin solder wire, flux, desoldering braid- Small Side cutters, Long nose pliers- A GOOD set of tweezers - until I used them I never knew tweezers could be so good.- Magnifying lamp- Heat resistant work mat- I have a hot air station I infrequently use, mainly on fine-pitch connectors.- Some larger heavy duty side cutters for cutting cables- Craft knife with snap-off blade- A set of smallish screwdrivers (Flat and Phillips)T&M- A couple of cheap multimeters (AENG 8008 & 8009) - I only do low voltage/current stuff, so these are fine for me- A low-end 2-channel scope- A bench power supply that covers the V & A ranges that I use (for me it is a cheap 30V 5A PSU -https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000148214127.htmlwould be the equivalent, but you might want something more reputable likehttps://nz.element14.com/tenma/72-10480/power-supply-1ch-30v-3a-adjustable/dp/225194602).- Digilent Analog Discovery 2 as a signal generator and analyzer- A cheapie Logic AnalyzerOther- Lots of storage containers from 0.25L up, for parts and stuff- A large-ish, sturdy tableAs far as components go, I've found having a stock of components is close to useless - I order the passives or transistors for one project, order a few times more than I need, and never end up using them again. When I start a new build I usually need to order at least one new thing.One thing that I have found worthwhile to have is SMD sample books (likehttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32370322093.html). That way when you are tweaking designs you don't need wait for more parts (most common usage is "argh! that LED is too bright"). Also I can never have too many 0.1" pin headers (male and female).If you are yet to be proficient with SMD soldering, grab a 10-pack of those SMD practice kits (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919661499.htmlor the cheaperhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32596751630.html) and go for it. Have a look athttps://www.instructables.com/id/SMD-Soldering-Practice-Kit-or-How-I-Learned-to-Sto/for somebody's walk-through on building one and what you can expected.

author: Polym0rphed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 07:22:22 am
content: Thanks for all your responses, everyoneMuch appreciated.I'm happy to shop at multiple locations. I would be out and about (COVID19 restrictions recently eased a little), but my car is not happy now from being stagnant for so long haha Should have it up and running in a couple of weeks.Stores like Jaycar are struggling to maintain a physical presence as they can't really compete with pure online stores - I've been to a few of them and their stock is not like it used to be.RE the Soldering Workstation - I can get a genuine Hakko FX-888D (includes side cutters for $170AU) or a knock-off FX-951 for around $90AUD; I haven't found a genuine FX-951 close to these prices. I suppose it's the stand-by feature that makes the FX-951 more desirable? I've never used a temperature controlled iron before, so I can't properly appreciate the trade-off.Here is the knock off FX-951 on banggood:https://www.banggood.com/FX-951-230V-AU-Plug-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Tip-p-932704.html?cur_warehouse=AUOr the Hakko FX888D for $169 here:https://www.oritech.com.au/hakko-fx888d-soldering-station.htmlBecause I need so many items, I am trying to keep the total investment as low as justifiable without cutting costs in the wrong places - and I'm thinking of purchasing things in "phases". The first phase, for example, I have some audio cables I need to put together and a couple of small DIY kit projects (like a re-amping box, a stereo line isolator with attenuation switches... basic things that come in kits), then we will probably move on to more advanced API 500 series kits ... Eventually I hope to be able to design my own circuits... once I get to that stage, I have many, many project ideas. Perhaps the "precision" iron can wait, for example. Or maybe I'll never be able to justify one.Regarding solder and flux etc. - I foundKester 44 in 60/40]Kester 44 in 60/40 alloy at 0.64mm - I noticed the 63/37 is more readily available... is it easier to use, given the narrower window of alloy plasticity? Or does the faster reaction time required make it harder?Do you buy separate flux and solvents like iso to clean surfaces prior to soldering (assuming there is no obvious oxidation etc.)?The practice kits are a very good idea!

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 09:31:24 am
content: My advice is DONT!It will cost you a fortune, fill your room, desks, shelves with junk and make your postman hate you.... and if you catch the test equipment bug, god help you.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 10:05:19 am
content: Given that you're starting almost from scratch on tools, you might keep your eye on estate sales in your area. Even if you only find collections of common hand tools, that can fill some of your general requirements cheaply.And you might get lucky...some tools have been around a lot longer than you think. My grandfather who died in 1969 had a wire strip and cut tool that I still use from time to time. I still see an almost identical tool available today, except with plastic where metal isn't required. Mine is all metal.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 08:24:59 pm
content: Quote from: Polym0rphed on June 05, 2020, 07:22:22 amHey we always try to spend somebody else's money.QuoteMy work was considered essential and only noticed due how hard it was to get something decent to eat.QuoteHere in the USA the last remaining seller of the junk we all love, Radio Shack, died sometime ago.QuoteThe more refined the work the more a good soldering iron pays off. Guys that have been in the hobby for a long time opt for the more expensive solutions. To be fair there are many decent soldering irons stations beyond the Hakko's so again don't get hook on marketing. Mind you we are talking about getting started here. By the way "includes side cutters" is meaningless unless they are of passable quality, again a marketing ploy that might not be of value.QuoteI wouldn't do a knock off. I really don't understand the mentality of the manufactures in China that do this nor the idiots that buy the knock offs. If you have the ability to make something decent put your name on it and be proud of your accomplishments.QuoteFirst off buying phases for tools makes a lot of sense. I like a two prong approach. Buy a specific tool when absolutely you need it. Second; come up with a monthly or every other month budget dedicated to tool purchases to flesh out your tool box. Spend that budgeted amount as often as possible until you have a fleshed out tool box.Now here is a bigger reality, at least for me anyways, if you are in the tech for any length of time you will likely need or want to have more than one type of soldering iron. If you want to do work on your car, old tube equipment or robotics a larger iron might be worth the investment. You don't want to be using a soldering iron meant for SMT or other fine work on tube sockets for example. I'm not down with the idea that there is one soldering iron for every need just like there isn't one screwdriver for every need. The trick is to get the right solution for your immediate needs.QuoteFlux can be a life saver!! As for the solders I've mostly used 60/40. However the diameter of that solder wire can be an issue for fine work. I'd almost certainly would want a roll of fine solder wire and a roll of the heavier stuff.QuoteOr buy kits that are easy to solder up but lead to something usable. Power supplies come to mind. That is practice on something that will be useful.One thing I noted in my last post is that I didn't leave a good "starters list". So here is an attempt:A good soldering station but avoid going overboard for your first one.Pliers, needle nose and side cutters to start.Pliers, flush cutters (these are different from side cutters and are generally light duty in comparison).Screw drivers, small. Often called instrument or electronics screw drivers.Brushes. Various, for cleaning flux and other residues.A magnifier probably something in the 5X range. A hand held loupe type would be a good start. As you get older you will need more and of different types. At my age they are required indifferent types and magnifications.Vise. You need something to old boards still and there are endless ways to do this. However Panavise seems to be an almost universal solution in many shops. Some may be surprised to see this on a startup list of tools but you really need something.Anti static control. A mat would be a good start and you should have a wrist strap/Tweezers. There is an endless variety here but start out with something with a smaller tip and add to your collection as you need.ToolBox. There are various ways to solve this problem but honestly I'd buy a mechanics tool box with a few drawers right off the start. Not a huge box but not the smallest crappy one you can find either. This would easily be the most expensive item on this list.That is it for tools to get your started immediately in soldering up printed circuit boards. Some will be surprised that I put mechanics tool box on the list but my thinking is this: organization from the start can be a big help in keeping an orderly work bench. Further you will need more tools than what is in this getting started list.So given that what is next tool wise? Well good question and it depends upon where your interests go but lets say every body ends up assembling electronics into boxes or other containers. So let extend the list keeping this in mind:Screw drivers. Largish screw drivers in #1 & #2 Phillips. One of each in 4" length and 8" length.Screw drivers. Largish standard flat tip. These are not used often for screws anymore but they do make good pry bars. (by the way avoid buying the 30 piece sets for huge bucks unless you can see yourself using them all with in a year. it is just a waste of money )Pliers. Slip joint.Pliers. Vise grip style locking pliers.Multi meter. Start with a decent quality $50 meter with the understanding that you will need more than one and that the others can come later.Hand Drill. Probably your best bet these days is a battery powered unit, a corded is cheaper but then you have that cord.Saw, Hacksaw.Saw, Jewelers.Nibbler, Hand operated.Files. There are many types but start our with smaller fine cut files in square, flat, triangle and round.Hammer, ball peen. Probably something in an 8 to 12 Oz ball peen.Wrenches, small. Often called midget or ignition wrenches, These need to be small in the context of fasteners in project boxesWrench, Crescent 6". Sometimes called adjustable but sometimes sworn at. However they have their place.Power supplySquare, Adjustable. Sometimes called a combination square in one form. Others are called double squares. Those are the two basic types and either one can be a big help with layout.Scale, 6". No matter where you are it really helps to have at least one scale with metric and English increments on it.Tape Measure. Almost any size will do to get started.Drill bits. I almost forgot this one but you can't use that hand drill without drill bits. This can also be an expensive investment as ideally you would get a full jobbers length set and then some step drills for sheet metal work. That is just a start too as you will need other accessories for that hand drill.In any event the above list gets you started buying instruments which you likely will want to do real early and gets you basic tools to enable putting stuff in a box. Beyond the instruments, screw drivers and pliers there is nothing there to rush out and buy early in the process.As far as going another step further you need nut holding solutions that work when wrenches don't. This is where things get harder decision wise and really depend upon where your interests go. Your choices are for the most part nut drivers or 1/4" drive socket sets. In the end I ended up with a mix mash collection of both. So if you have project boxes that are big or deep, robotics assemblies, CNC machines or whatever mechanical contraption your electronics projects will be working with, you will likely have to buy something in this area. If you buy a socket set make sure the ratchet is good quality or that you can buy a good quality one separately. Generally a socket set should come with a range of sockets, at least two different extensions, a ratchet, (breaker bar or flex head) and a screw driver handle. Socket sets never have all the sockets or driver bits we seem to need so keep that in mind. I must admit though that for many things I prefer a nut driver, torx driver or whatever driver thus the mixed up mess of stuff for electronics work I have. The big problem with drivers is never having one of the right length.Hope these list help a bit and I hope people point out what I missed. You certainly want to see these as set of get you started tools. You will eventually fill the tool box.

author: Polym0rphed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 12:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on June 05, 2020, 09:31:24 amHaha! I used to run a pro-audio online store and did all the warehousing at home - and all that mostly in order to facilitate the "gear lust" I had as a consumer. It's almost human of us to pour our money and time into our passions... there is almost always some kind of gear lust involved no matter the nature of the hobbyMy partner will be good at exposing me for the gear slut I am if I get too hooked haha she is financially pragmatic enough to reel me in. The test equipment has that laboratory/spaceship cockpit appeal to it - I can understand the aesthetic appeal before owning any such devices ... I am going to work on passive circuits for a while (mostly so no one kills themselves too early on to get decent value out of all these goodies)

author: Polym0rphed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 12:07:10 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on June 05, 2020, 10:05:19 amI inherited my late father's great uncle's tools. He was a carpenter. So many tools I've never seen anywhere else since. Some of them are at my mother's house, but most were among the many things that were stolen from my garage while I was looking after my then ill father at his house. I had a lot of tools for woodworking and mechanical work (I used to race a little CRX)... even a fully automated (valve actuated pumps and programmable cpu) brewery that took me two years to design and build.I hadn't thought of estate sales - thanks for the suggestion

author: Polym0rphed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 12:22:06 pm
content: Thank you for such a lengthy and detailed post! Much appreciated!I took a mental list of these things with me to Bunnings and had a look at their range and pricing. They had some of the more general tools, but I wasn't impressed with the quality for the asking prices and most things. It was still useful to physically compare items and get a sense of their respective sizes (which I was having trouble visualising with pure text). Online is going to be a lot cheaper for the majority of things, especially more electronics specific tools.Now I'm printing out a list that I will cross off as I purchase each itemI've been watching some videos of people working on audio oriented kits and getting a feel for what kinds of tools are required, when and why... ahhh and some old soldering videos that were for schooling technicians.Are there any tool brands that stand out for electronics tools? I know what I'm doing when it comes to mechanic's tools, but for this hobby... For example, wire strippers... They range from $10 to $1000 ... I have no idea how to even take a punt haha even knowing the wire diameters I would mostly work with (14-26). Heat guns for shrink wrap - do they have a particular name? I keep finding hot air rework stations instead :\I will definitely have a look beyond Hakko before I take the plunge. Thanks so much!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 04:13:26 pm
content: Quote from: Polym0rphed on June 08, 2020, 12:22:06 pmI picked up a cheap hot air station from fleabay. Dial down the temperature and it does heatshrink beautifully with far less risk of damaging stuff.

author: Polym0rphed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:51:42 pm
content: I found a Weller WE1010 Digital Soldering Station for $174AUD -https://www.mektronics.com.au/soldering-rework/weller-tips-spares/weller-we1010-digital-soldering-station.htmlThis 70w unit "automatically powers down to a given temperature when not in use" (has standby mode). Might be a better option than an 888DI'm hoping to spend up to $200AUD.I found a decent 200mm self-adjusting wire stripper at Bunnings that handles 10-24 AWG for $30. If I need to strip smaller wires, I'll improvise

author: sdt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 11:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: Polym0rphed on June 09, 2020, 02:51:42 pmFor 20-30 AWG the BEST-5023 strippers are cheap and work well.I have a few larger automatic wire strippers, and they tend to tear up smaller wires.