Silicone USB wire flexible as a thin rope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 03:39:14 pm
content: Hello.could anyone say where i can find some thin and ultra flexible silicone wire able to transport an USB signal on one meter please ?Regard

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 05:00:07 pm
content: For USB, you have to use USB cable because of the defined impedance. (Or find something else with the same 90 ohms (IIRC) impedance.)I really like these:https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2078.htmlThey’re thin and soft, flat and not round. Like a piece of overcooked linguine.I use them for programming microcontroller boards (Arduino, ESP32, etc) because they don’t move the board around the way ordinary USB cables do, and the built-in USB-C adapter makes it universal for the majority of boards. I have not subjected them to testing for more demanding applications (either for wattage or data rates).It’s also a bonus that they’re inexpensive ($3.50) and readily available on DigiKey.If you absolutely have to make your own, there are round bare (unterminated) silicone USB cables sold on AliExpress as “liquid silicone” USB cable.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 08:14:16 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 02, 2024, 05:00:07 pmThanks, i will try your dfrobot cable, i've bought few of the AliExpress “liquid silicone” cables and they are rigid as you can see :post url online

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 08:23:44 pm
content: I have have some of these USB-C to USB-C cables from Anker in both the 3ft. and 6ft. variety:https://www.anker.com/products/a8552Silicone and very flexible. Amazon carries them and you can also order direct from Anker.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 08:39:29 pm
content: There was another thread recently about silicone USB cables, which listed a load of options at various price-points.I too like those Anker 643 cables; they feel markedly more flexible/floppy than other manufacturer silicone cables, at least the few I've come across so far.It's a pity they are so pricey, but they feel top quality.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 09:15:37 pm
content: Thanks, a round cable is better because the mechanical resistance is homogeneous in every directions, the chinese manufacturers ear picks are equipped with a rigid PVC cord that made them impossible to use.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 06:20:45 am
content: Have you tried the Ikea ones? They are actually pretty decent.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 08:21:07 am
content: Yes, they are really hard, consumer cables are designed to be sturdy and i need a really flexible cable with a insuation made of all silicone only.I've seached for years to find a good camera module because all the Aliexpress earpicks are bad designed with hard cables and a bad camera module with a too smoothed image treatement or optic with a too long focal distance.It's really hardcore difficult to find a usable product in the gigantic mass of BS.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 09:24:48 am
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 03, 2024, 08:21:07 amCould you describe your use case? If the cable will be moved a lot in use (maybe even in a motorized setup which moves a device around?), making the insulation very soft and flexible may be counter-productive. It will encourage the formation of sharp local bends and put more strain on the conductors inside. A stiff insulation, or even extra support by a cable chain or other guide to give defined large-radius bends, may be preferable.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 08:19:27 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 03, 2024, 09:24:48 amIt is a hand tool, the neuro-muscular accuation is a lot more precise when there is no cable pulls to manage when you perform a human body internal cleaning.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 08:49:05 pm
content: Another thing to keep in mind is that the silicone surface will probably have a high friction coefficient when rubbing against clothing or skin. If the cable can touch anything while the device is operated, a sudden tug might be more annoying than some steady bending force?Anyway, just give it a try. If you retain the plugs on both ends, the cable will be quick to replace if it breaks or if you don't like the feel.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 09:37:34 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 03, 2024, 08:19:27 pmOK, now you REALLY need to tell us more about what it’s going to be used for!

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:47:22 am
content: You put the stick inside, localize the thing that have to be evacuated and exctract it with a straight stick in the S shaped tube.Without touchingany inner surface

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:59:18 am
content: Is it a camera? (And thus, is the USB carrying data?) Or is it just using USB to power a light?If it’s the latter, then you could really replace the cable with any flexible cable, since it’s not really USB. (Kabeltronik LifYY is superbly soft PVC cable.)

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 12:08:16 pm
content: it is a tiny camera module with a round array of leds, Ø4 OD.I need the softest cable humanly possible.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 08:47:34 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 04, 2024, 10:59:18 amI'm looking for a "no memory" cable.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 12:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 04, 2024, 08:47:34 pmI didn’t say it was “soft”. I said it was “superbly soft”.With that said, no cable has absolutely zero memory, and that includes silicone. (Interesting fact, some silicone is surprisingly deformable. I have some where you can take the stripped-off piece of insulation — so no copper inside — and if you bend it, it stays bent. Completely useless for my desired application as test lead wire.)Most of today’s softest cables aren’t actually silicone. Other polymers can be just as soft or softer in practice. And of course the cable’s construction (conductor size and stranding, etc) make a HUGE difference in overall flexibility.Anyway, since you have a camera, and thus it is a USB data stream, you can’t just use any cable, it needs to be USB cable specifically — or PCB made to USB impedance specs. You could, theoretically, make a flex PCB (the super thin orange ribbons) that would work. It would just be mechanically delicate.Try the cheap dfrobot cable I suggested. It doesn’t have zero memory (since no cable does), but it is extremely soft.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 02:52:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 05, 2024, 12:05:18 pmI've already a silicone iphone cable that meets my requirements but i don't know where i've bougt itI've tried the Anker and the Belkin soft silicone cables and they are bulk and stiff, the 90 ohms impedance is at wich frequency please ?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 05:28:30 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 02:52:47 pmUm, OK. So try the one I said to try, since it’s a regularly available product.Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 02:52:47 pmIn the simplified formula (which is good enough for most things that ask for an impedance-controlled line), the frequency term cancels out of the equation. I don’t remember off the top of my head what the symbol rate and analog bandwidth of USB are (plus, that depends on which USB speed you’re using, and you haven’t told me that), but since it doesn’t matter I’m not going to bother looking it up.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 06:08:11 pm
content: After searching in my 24943 mail DB, here is THE really soft cable :https://hocotech.com/product/mobile-accessories/cables/lightning/cable-usb-to-lightning-x21-plus-charging-data-sync-1m-2m/But they are not avaliable anymoreHere are the chips of the camera module PCB :

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 07:19:16 pm
content: Here is the secret for a flexible USB cable :Conductors=enameled wireInsulation=SiliconeFLEXIBLE

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 07:23:37 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 07:19:16 pmNope. That’s not “the secret”, it’s just one recipe that works.You can make extremely flexible cable from silicone. You can also make it from many other materials. (And you can make terrible cable from silicone. Trust me.)That the internal wires are enameled is not important. What is important, and you didn’t quote, is the “118pcs” part, which likely means 118 strands, which is very high (high strand count is good).

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 07:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 06:08:11 pmI believe you are overthinking this. As tooki wrote, cable impedance is largely independent of frequency in the relevant frequency range of 0.1 MHz and above. Z = srqt (L/C), i.e. dependent on cable properties only. If it's sold as a "USB cable", it should work.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 07:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 05, 2024, 07:23:37 pmI have a problem to believe that there is 118 strands in a cable of Ø3.5mm OD because 118/4=29.5 and 118x4=472PS : an enameled wire don't require any polymer insulation

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 07:40:46 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 05, 2024, 07:27:18 pmI can try any cable, it is non destructive test, the worst case is a loss of sync.PS : let's try the MOGAMI 3316 !

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 10:11:54 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 07:38:45 pm>50 strands in AWG 20 or 22 is entirely believable, 118 possible since there are numerous off the shelf wires in that scale (though have not seen exactly 118).

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 07:52:01 am
content: Would that not more likely be 118 strands in total accross all conductors? With proportionally more for V+ and V-.Or would that then not be enough for good flexibility?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 08:30:55 am
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 07:38:45 pmThe number of strands is likely not the same for all 4 conductors. Chances are the ground and 5V wires are much thicker than the data lines.I have 0.25mm2 PVC wire (which is softer than most silicone) that has 128 strands. Outer diameter 1.4mm. And that is not a special thin insulation. So even if it were 4x118 (which I doubt, given the 2.5A rating), it could still fit in the 3.5mm. Not scary at all, quite common in test lead wire.Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 05, 2024, 07:38:45 pmThe problem is that stranded enameled wire is much harder to work with (e.g. can’t crimp it). So we avoid it wherever possible. So we really just see that in litz wire and earbud cable.P.S. The enamel used on enameled wires are polymers.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 07:36:54 pm
content: Thanks for your answers,AWG20 gives a Ø0.519mm², 0.519/118=0,00439830508474584 square microns for each strand for 4$, it is a recent techological exploit ?i've measured the conducors with a caliper, they are all the same diameter (AWG20), i'm perhaps wrong but the more there is strands the less is the current rating and a such tiniy wire is very easy to overheat...i've choosing to make a test with an antique computer cable (because no one have any round proposal) with the idea to use the sheild for the GND and two conductors for the VCC and i don't know if it is a good or a bad idea but the cable is thin an flexible.PS : one hair is 70 to 100 microns of Ø

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 10:36:13 pm
content: The current capacity is determined by cross sectional area. Whether it is a single solid wire or divided into hundreds of strands doesn’t change that.You have that cable, so you could cut off a piece and count the strands in one of the conductors within.Extremely thin wire is nothing new in the slightest. No new “technical exploits” needed.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 02:21:15 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 06, 2024, 10:36:13 pmI've wrote that because of the prohibitive price of the multi strand silicone wire for the RC cars in the 90's, we were a small group of electric car evangelists and a that time the size of the market and the technology were dictated a very expensive price... i'm not so old.Here is a table that decrease the current load ratings with the number of strands, where is the bias please ?https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 04:17:39 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 02:21:15 pm1. I can’t speak to the pricing back then, but high-strand-count silicone wire still costs a lot more than basic PVC stranded. It’s a lot more work to make high-strand-count wire, and silicone costs extra too. So what?2. Your original wording made it sound like you thought such cable could not be made. You didn’t say “it’s too expensive.”Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 02:21:15 pmNothing on that page supports your claim. Nowhere on it is there a table showing that current capacity decreases as strand count increases. It just shows that thinner wire (higher AWG number) handles less current, which we all understand and was not under dispute.By definition, the AWG of stranded wire is the total cross-sectional area. Consequently, the resistance of solid and stranded wire of the same AWG is the same, because by definition they have the same cross-section. The current capacity (“ampacity”) rating depends on many factors, including insulation material and thickness, tolerable temperature increase, tolerable voltage drop, where it is installed, and how many wires are bundled together.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 04:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 08, 2024, 04:17:39 pmAnd if we assume hexagonal packing of circular conductors, the relative area of the cross section which is filled by copper (rather than air gaps) does not depend on how many strands one uses. To a good approximation, a bundle of 7 thick copper strands will have the have the same effective copper cross section as a bundle of 37 or 1000 correspondingly thinner strands with the same bundle diameter. The packing density remains at ~90%.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 04:36:47 pm
content: Indeed! Although high-strand-count frequently uses rope stranding (i.e. the overall wire consists of several bunches of strands, each of which has regular concentric stranding within). That does add extra air gaps, increasing overall conductor diameter slightly.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 04:44:16 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 08, 2024, 04:17:39 pm1_it was partially the reason of my reaction2_You are right, it is the second part of my reason.I've perhaps misinterpreted the table, the cross-sectional area is constant (in the same line) and the current load ratings varies with the number of strands... in the same line

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 04:55:29 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 04:44:16 pmThat table claims very steep derating with higher strand counts. I'm not sure I trust those values.Compare with the table by Lapp, an actual manufacturer of cables, below. ("Correction factors for more conductors", table in the bottom right.) The gradual derating they show is more plausible and will be due to a combination of the additional rope stranding mentioned by tooki, and probably some additional air gaps in the finer bundles (i.e. the "dense hexagonal packing" assumption not holding up strictly).https://t3.lappcdn.com/fileadmin/DAM/Miltronic_Denmark/4_servicecenter/T13.pdf

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 05:32:25 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 04:44:16 pmIt doesnotsay “number of strands”. It says number ofcores, which means number of conductors (wires) in acable. (Cable and wire are not synonyms in electronics.) It doesn’t say anything about the construction of each conductor; that can be a single solid wire, or it can be stranded wire of any stranding that adds up to the same cross section.Before the table, the text says: “The table below indicates the current ratings of PVC-insulated single and multicore wiring cables.”The footnote (1) says “Current ratings for up to 1000 V , PVC-insulated single and multicore wiring cables, ambient temperature up to 30°C”So the example line you show, for 24AWG, means the current per conductor in a single 24AWG wire (3.5A) and for cables withnnumber of 24AWG conductors (wires) within the cable. For example, if you have a 4-conductor cable, and each conductor is 24AWG, then it gets derated to 1.6A.Why the derating? Because the extra layer of insulation (the cable jacket) reduces cooling, and the heat produced by each conductor affects the others.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 05:44:11 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 08, 2024, 04:55:29 pmYou are making the exact same mistake of confusing “strand” and “conductor”. Lapp isn’t saying anything whatsoever about the stranding, either.Since I know the German terminology, “conductor” = “Leiter” (or “Ader”) and “stranding” = “Leiteraufbau”.The two ampacity tables do not differ much, actually. The values in the 75°C column of the Lapp table match the one from engineeringtoolbox (which it only gives as “typical” anyway), and the derating factors for more conductors are fairly similar if you do the numbers.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 07:32:22 pm
content: I havent read the text before the table, it seems to be the common internet generation diseaseEach core (âme) is composed of many stands (brins), so if you have 3 cores of 24AWG in the same wire (fil) the current is derated from 3.5 to 2A.Should you say if the current rating of my 0.035mm² Mogami 3316 will suffice for a subminature camera module ?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 07:47:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 08, 2024, 05:44:11 pmGuess you are right, that makes sense. The term I find really confusing is "core" though. I was convinced it is the same as "strand", but apparently that's not so.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 08:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 08, 2024, 07:47:09 pmI personally don’t like the term “core” for a conductor, but it is not uncommon. I think “conductor” is much better, especially in light of cables that have other types of cores, for example a polymer fiber for strength. (I.e. “core” in the sense of DE “Kern”.)There is no ambiguity in English electronics about what the strands are called, though: strands.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 08:38:23 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 07:32:22 pmWell, almost: if there are multiple conductors, then it is a cable, not a wire. (As I said before: cable and wire are NOT synonyms in electronics!!!)But yes, the current per conductor is derated to 2A in your example.Also, thank you for sharing the French words — I don’t know nearly as much technical French vocabulary as I would like!(French was my favorite foreign language in school. I used to be really good at it, but I am out of practice.)Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 07:32:22 pmDid you say how much current the camera needs? (I don’t see it right away, but I’m on my phone so don’t have the entire thread visible while replying.)0.035mm² is approximately 32AWG, which many ampacity tables don’t have recommendations for, but this one from JST suggests 0.3A maximum at that gauge, for a 60°C rating.https://www.jst.fr/doc/jst/pdf/current_rating.pdfWikipedia says 0.53A at 75°C rating (i.e. a 45°C temperature rise above 30°C ambient).Also, at 0.538 mΩ/m, at 500mA you’ll have a voltage drop of .25V across a meter cable. No problem if the 5V power supply is on the higher side of the tolerance range, but potentially an issue if the power supply is on the very low side for some reason.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 08:47:07 pm
content: For the French people : conducteur = ÂmeCable = ensemble de fils, cable = wire assemblyFils = ensemble d'âmes, wire = conductors assemblyâme = ensemble de brins, conductor = strands assemblyIs my terminology right ?

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 08:58:17 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 08, 2024, 08:38:23 pm"âme" is a polysemic word in french it can also be translated as "soul" in english

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 09:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 08:47:07 pmNo.In the context of electronics:*A wire is a single conductor, which can be solid wire (a single strand, so to speak) or stranded. It can be bare wire, but more commonly it is insulated.A cable contains multiple conductors (solid or stranded wires, with mandatory per-conductor insulation) within an overall insulation (the jacket). The conductors can be subdivided into groups (like the twisted pairs in Ethernet cable), can be shielded individually or in groups (like in many audio cables, or the mini-coaxial cables inside a high-speed USB 3.2 cable).Can you give an example of a cable where in French you would distinguish betweencableandfils?(To me,filssounds like the English word “cord”, which is a more informal word for a cable.)*I explicitly say “electronics” because usage in the electrical distribution system may be different, and the usage outside of electricity (for example, in jewelry or in wires/cables used for mechanical support) can be very different.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 09:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 08:58:17 pmSurprisingly we have the same duality of meaning in German, although the word clearly has a different origin: "Seele" is German for soul (in the spiritual sense). But the innermost strand of a cable or of a rope is also called its "Seele".English "soul" and German "Seele" have the same origin obviously. But I don't think "soul" is used in that technical sense for roap or cable parts?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 09:17:30 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 08:58:17 pmI know.Interestingly, German uses its word for the soul (Seele) for the flux core in solder wire. So the German word for “flux core solder” literally translates to “solder wire with flux soul”. Kind of poetic in a way!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 09:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 08, 2024, 09:13:54 pmTo the best of my knowledge, no. But I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that it exists (or used to exist) in jargon-heavy contexts like nautical terminology. (A quick dictionary search is not producing any such indications, so possibly not.)

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 09:29:46 pm
content: As you carefully stated, that is the distinction between "cable" and "wire" in electronics.(A quick check on standard dictionaries shows that some dictionaries confuse cable and wire in electrical applications.)In other technical English, "cable" is the normal term in mechanical engineering for a multi-strand assembly of fibers used for high tensile strength requirements, as in elevator cables, where a single solid strand would not be flexible enough.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 09:58:19 pm
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on November 08, 2024, 08:47:07 pmI just looked over the French Wikipedia, and it definesâmeas being the conductor within afil. So it seems that “fil” just means an insulated wire. Thefilcan be “monobrin” (solid wire) or “multibrin” (stranded wire). And the conductors in a cable can be referred to asâmesorfils.(Fil is also the word for sewing thread and yarn, and for dental floss, right?)In English,in the context where the distinction is needed(like discussing the geometry of a wire in order to configure a wire stripping machine or crimping tool), then we call the conductive inside part of an insulated wire the “conductor”.But in the context of a cable, “conductor” just means an individual insulated wire.So here’s my best guess for the definitions :When describinginsulatedelectrical wires:1. âme = conductor = the metal part of a wire, inside the insulation. Can be solid (monobrin) or stranded (multibrin).2. fil = wire = a conductor and its insulation3. cable = cable = a bundle of 2 or more wires with an overall insulationAnd apparently in both French and English, we can use (1) and (2) interchangeably when describing the individual members within a cable.When describingbare(uninsulated) electrical wire:fil = wire = a single conductorno cable is possible, since multiple wires without insulation simply form a larger wire, since they are a single conductor

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 07:21:51 pm
content: Thanks for you enlightments, everything you've wrote seems very true to methe mogami 3316 is arrived but 'im not sure if the data can transit in a 0.55Ω/m... conductor

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 10:08:25 pm
content: The DC resistance is not that important for the data transmission. The characteristic impedance does, and that cable doesn’t have one. It might work. It might not work at all. Or it might work up to a certain length.The DC resistance does, of course, matter for power transfer. Over your one meter cable it might be OK if the camera doesn’t use too much current, but if it’s power hungry or for longer cables it’d be a serious problem. :/

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 04:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 09, 2024, 10:08:25 pmThe wires are too small and power problem has occurred, the camera draws only 116mA but something goes wrong. i've used the shield as GND and two wires for the VCC and it works, i'm lucky this timeThere is a power detection technology with the USB, no ?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 10:16:18 pm
content: It’s possible the camera’s measured 116mA current is just an average, and that it pulls pulses of much higher current, leading to pulsed excessive voltage drop. For example, if the current is momentarily 2A, then the voltage drop would be 1V, which might be too low for the camera, even if it’s just for a few ms at a time.USB power is a complex topic that I don’t want to attempt to summarize in a sentence. But my guess is that it does not monitor power in the way you’re imagining. But what are you thinking, exactly?

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 09:07:59 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 10, 2024, 10:16:18 pmI've seen the power pulses, the leds ring was flashing and the USB ampmeter values were ondulating, i've no time to inverstigate with an oscilloscope and this technology supasess (by far) my competences.I don't know anything about the camera module but it looks more sphisticated by anyone i've seen before, the camera lens is separated from the led ring by a translucid glue led assembly, it is the best compacity/image quality that i've seen (the good engineering is not always reconized)The urgent prototype is here and functionnal, the only originality is the tractrix expension for the wire bending

author: spostma
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 09:01:17 pm
content: What about retractible USB cables?They use lize cable internally, and arequiteflexible (but not silicone).There are various types being offered, like:https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005006859467089.htmlhttps://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005006209007555.html

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 09:15:08 pm
content: "Litz" wire is named from the German word "litzendraht" ("woven wire" in English).However, "Litz wire" in English usually means a large number ofindividually insulatedstrands formed into a bundle, used to improve conductance at high frequencies where the skin effect reduces the effective area of the conductor.Small diameter Litz wire can be very flexible, but it is a nuisance to use since you must join the strands together at each end (typically using a solder pot if the strand insulation is suitable for removal at that temperature).The same collection of uninsulated strands should be a bit more flexible (without the enamel), and easier to work with.A good source for Litz wire:https://mwswire.com/litz-wire/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 02:39:46 am
content: Actually, nobody says Litzendraht.* Stranded wire is simply “Litze” and litz wire is “Hochfrequenzlitze” (or “HF-Litze”).*Generally in German, “Draht” means solid wire, and Litze means stranded. So “Litzendraht” is kinda like saying “stranded solid wire”. OK, you can find examples online of stranded wire sold as Litzendraht, but it’s not something I’ve ever heard anyone say in real life, not even a single time — and I studied electronics in German and now do it professionally, in German. I actually suspect “Litzendraht” could even be a back-translation from English or another foreign language.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 03:54:52 am
content: The usual etymology of the English term "Litz wire" refers to the German "Litzendraht" as the source of the word.I don't know if it is contemporary German or not.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 04:57:14 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 17, 2024, 03:54:52 amAfter looking at 95-120 year old books on Google Books: It certainly looks as though the etymology is correct, but it’s definitely not contemporary German.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 07:46:15 am
content: Thanks for the idea, i keep it on hand for the prototyes, but the first prototype is great and it increased my treatement quality.I've used enamelled thin wires for my IEM prototypes in the past, it was the only way to put 3 active filtered transducers in one shell.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 02:54:00 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 17, 2024, 04:57:14 amA contemporary English-language wire vendor's site, that I cited above:https://mwswire.com/litz-wire/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 12:28:20 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 17, 2024, 02:54:00 pmOK, and…?I said the etymology is correct, even if contemporary German has stopped using the word “Liztendraht”.I found old books documenting that English “litz wire” is derived from the (old) German word “Litzendraht”. So the etymology appears correct. A few German sources from that time also used “Litzendraht” for litz wire, but most had moved to calling it “Hochfrequenzlitze” like we do today. (And other instances were contexts unrelated to electrical wire, where “Litzendraht” meant the wires used to move yarns in looms. So “draht for litze”, not “draht made of litze”.)