Beginner electronics setup for a 11 year old, UK specific... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: amlu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:09:33 pm
content: My first ever post here, hello Dave and all the crew.Friend of me, a mother of 11 years old girl asked me for some suggestions for her birthday present, apparently shes interested, or wants to be interested in electronics.My knowledge about 11 year olds is seriously limited, and all the kit on the bench is been there for ages and im not really sure what are the modern replacements.So first i thought point them to ladyada, sparkfun etc, get them some duinos, modules etc, watch the videos and play with the stuff. Any better options? BBC microbit, some modern kit, whatever?Then the mum says the little girl wants to learn soldering. ehm wowwill need some recommendations for a reliable soldering iron, maybe some of those recommended hakko clones with a range of tips...i guess she will need a multimeter (recommendations please :-) and some power supply... maybe one of DP china digital step down converters and a laptop psu to power it up....?Plus maybe some soldering practice material, i grew up on velleman kits but i guess there should be something newer and good? Im really bit crusty on the subject...some basic tools, pliers, tweezers, solder sucker etc? ....anything else?want to get them hooked up not frustrated :-)all the shopping got to be done online from UK based sellers , not direct china as the birthday is like a week time..I may be able to see the birthday girl and mum in person, show them around the workshop and explain basics of safely operating the kit, but from there my involvement will finish, they live far away and got to make a long trip to ever come here.thanks,

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:35:39 pm
content: Velleman mini kits, soldering station and solder plus fitting batteries. These are projects that have a chance of success, which is the main factor.http://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d1.htmlhttp://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d89_Soldering_Equipment.htmlNo affiliation.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:36:54 pm
content: With the time frame that's definitely a local supplier thing.Just a cheap AN8008 or similar meter and cheap Hakko 936 knockoff will be fine for a beginner.I'd suggest the 100-in-1 like spring terminal kits, but given that she wants to solder, may be beyond that. But can't hurt.LED blinky thingso and robots are what the kids like these days, right?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:44:09 pm
content: I would have loved a 100-1 spring terminal kit when I was that age. Unfortunately it was outside the available budget for birthday or Christmas presents.If there's a circuit you like from the kit you can then copy it and solder it up on a proto-board with loose components. That can get you started with interesting circuits that work first time and also get you started with soldering.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:47:23 pm
content: Quote from: amlu on December 02, 2018, 10:09:33 pmAn adjustable power supply may not be that important to start with. Batteries go a long way for simple transistor and IC circuits. For things like Arduino and plug and play modules the standard wall wart power supplies for those will work fine. I bet a lot of things will run off a 5 V USB supply.

author: amlu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:57:34 pm
content: Got some of those in the labhttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/RD-DP50V5A-Constant-Voltage-current-Step-down-Programmable-Power-Supply-module-buck-Voltage-converter-color-LCD/923042_32596330856.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.14.7bac58f8HwcK0rand they been the ones used every day,can be used with ordinary wall warts, laptop power supplies or whatever comes in local charity shop.volts and amps hooked to old school light bulb are easy to explain with digital displays and current limiting functions come handy if you mess up your circuits, stops things puffing out the magic smoke and lots of frustration followed...need some uk supplier for those bit somehow or dismantle one from my test bench and lend to them :-)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 10:58:05 pm
content: Got a 12 year old girl here.Soldering iron, a kit. Whet the appetite. They might love it. Might hate it. Mine hated it even though she was interested to start with.As you're in the UK ... I would get them this:1. Soldering iron:https://www.rapidonline.com/antex-s58j4h8-xs25w-soldering-iron-230v-with-silicone-cable-and-13a-plug-85-11452. Stand:https://www.rapidonline.com/antex-h400020-soldering-iron-stand-st4-85-05853. Solder:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXPO-77598-REEL-OF-HIGH-QUALITY-110-GRAM-LOCTITE-MULTICORE-LEADED-SOLDER/222265194619?epid=1354628864&hash=item33c009b87b:g:3ugAAOSwqu9U5ODs:rk:2:pf:14. Kit that actually does something interesting:https://www.kitronik.co.uk/2157-fm-radio-kit-v20.html(this is a really nice one. I built one for my Full amateur radio license - took me about 5 minutes... good instructions which is important).5. Side cutters:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Piergiacomi-PG-TRE03NB-Flush-Cutter-138mm/dp/B003UQWJAA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543791262&sr=8-1&keywords=piergiacomiIf she doesn't want it at the end there's £25 back on ebayIf you have a week, get some lead (not lead free!) solder and some side cutters on rapid and find a suitable kit and pay next day delivery.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 11:23:40 pm
content: If you think the inner workings of electronics might lack purpose with the target users's level of skill, have a look at the "ELECTRONICS STARTER KIT FOR MICRO:BIT", and a Micro:bit board.https://www.monkmakes.com/mb_kit/Why? It is all very accessible, and understandable, and well, quite fun. Build a burglar alarm, emergency lighting for your room, a fan that blows when it is hot, flashing messages, balancing games.If you are in the UK, it may also be something that they encounter at school too.Pimoroni.com are a good reseller that I have done business with many times.A low-cost multimeter is a good addition too.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 11:29:26 pm
content: I think when I was 10 years old I built a "crystal radio" with an OA91 maybe followed by a TRF radio using a Denco coil and either a DF91 or DL92 tube and an Eveready B126 90V HT battery, It didn't work but it didn't stop me. Philips EE1050 was next, I think it was the EE1050 because it had "lockfit" transistors and that was the first time I let the magic smoke out of something, it was the BC148 and I still remember the smellThere are a few kits 130-in-1 or 300-in-1 from Elenco and maybe Vellerman. I would go for an analogue based all in one kit with a variety of experiments rather than something with a digital bias like Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 11:29:48 pm
content: If you go the Arduino route, and I think you should, you will find that many Shields require soldering. At a minimum, the header pins need to be soldered.There's a trick you can pass along: Put the pins in the Arduino sockets, place the Shield over the top of the pins and then solder.Every thing that can be done with an Arduino has been done and it is documented on the Internet. There is so much more to electronics than just soldering parts.Solderless prototype boards will be necessary as will an assortment of parts. Or, buy parts by the project.A LOT of soldering and probably not a project for the absolute beginner but if the kid can follow the directions, it should work out:https://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Radio-Kit-Combines-Transistors/dp/B008515U1UI was building Heathkits at that age, I know it can be done.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 11:41:36 pm
content: Yes. I think Arduino is a PITA for day one. That’s day two.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 11:57:44 pm
content: QuoteThere are two sides to the coin, analog or digital. Back when I was a youngster it was all analog so I would recommend kits with springy terminals. Fifty years later and things have moved on so probably micro:bit is a good start, I just noticed they've used a block editor just like MITs Scratch.Wow, the Antex XS25W was my first soldering iron a long long time ago, they work.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 12:36:00 am
content: The following are my thoughts on a logical progression. There are no hard and fast rules here and you may find you would want to combine some steps, reorder or jump over them. You could ignore them altogether since I don't know the people involved. Having said that .....* I'd avoid the soldering iron for step 1. Go for the spring type of 100 in 1 kit. Reason: You want the enthusiast to have success very early and if they don't have adequate soldering skills, they may add thermal destruction to the list of things that can go wrong.* This:Quote from: chris_leyson on December 02, 2018, 11:29:26 pmReason: Even if they quickly tire of the analogue circuitry and component level assembly and find Arduino projects (for example) more interesting, having some hands-on experience at the fundamental level will serve them well.* I would highly recommend good instructions for a beginner - but that can depend on the person. Some may need everything spelled out and others may just need a diagram.* It would be good if there was someone with experience that could be available if they got stuck on something. This person could also observe the interest taken and suggest directions of exploration.* Be prepared for every range of interest. Without knowing the 11 year old, I can only speculate. They may get bored by the end of day 1 or they may want to build their own microprocessor.* If interest grows, I'd be adding a breadboard or two. Include some jumper wires and a grab bag of through hole resistors, capacitors and some jellybean transistors. A fistful of LEDs wouldn't go astray either. There may be other components their direction of interest might suggest, too.* If we get to this level then we can introduce static sensitive devices and ICs* If possible, I'd hold back on the Arduino stuff until now - but if interest jumps in that direction early, then it will be silly to hold back.* Up until this point, connections can pretty much be solderless - but if a soldering iron hasn't been procured by now, then it's time to get one. Same with basic tools like side cutters, pliers an screwdrivers. Throw in some matrix board/proto board/Veroboard for good measure. Get the enthusiast to start off soldering with some simple circuits. It would be far better to do 20 solder joints and find you've killed 2 components than do 200 joints, killing 20. Use circuits with components that will tolerate some stress and won't break the bank if they get fried.* By this stage, specific areas of interest are quite likely to have been established, as would the range of skills, so where you go from this point should, hopefully, be self evident.One last point. Depending on the individual, the above "sequence of events" as it were might take a year or more - or it might take a week or two. Some areas might be engrossing or completely uninteresting. They may fly through some concepts or they may take their time. This is something for which you will need to prepare yourself. It could be rather unpredictable.Just my 2 cents' worth.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 12:48:24 am
content: There is a lot of variation as to technology literacy among soon to be teen agers.I would have definitely been able to use the amazing cheap tools from today at that age. (like $6 sigrok compatible logic analyzers and Raspberry Pi 3) I would have been all over that. I would have made it my business to learn them. You could do a lot worse than to get a few of the most outstanding values to her now while her brain is still growing. Also download the entire directory of MagPi magazine and their new hackerspace magazine, throw them on a DVDROM or flash drive so she can have some ideas of projects to look through.I would get a bunch of small breadboards and dupont cables (wires with headers on their ends) and a bunch of headers and maybe a bunch of chips. I wouldnt shy away from Arduinox because they are so powerful in terms of what can be done fast.If she does well with it, for next years present I would try to get her something like a used Analog Discovery 1

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 12:59:04 am
content: From my perspective, it is necessary to understand the potential limitations of an 11 year old, compared to an adult. When I was that age my ability to understand technology was very limited. It was mostly at the level of "monkey see, monkey do". I could follow instructions, but I couldn't innovate, and I couldn't properly understand how things worked.Similarly, my nephew is now 11. He is playing with a Raspberry Pi. He is at the level that he can type in Python programs from an instruction book and run them. He cannot understand exactly how the programs work, and he cannot write original programs of his own.It is important not to overestimate the capabilities of the 11 year old brain. Expecting too much will cause children to get frustrated and give up. There need to be clear instructions, basic skills that are easily learned, and positive results from following instructions and applying skills correctly.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:07:22 am
content: When i was 11 years old in some ways I was already at a level that as an adult it took me some time to get back to. I was taking completed circuit designs I found and building them and modifying them successfully. I was going into New York City which at that time had a lot of electronics stores, and bringing my project BOMs to the parts counter and getting my order in a little paper bag to bring home and build. because there was no way I could afford to buy them new I built my own volt/milliammeter/ohmmeter and analog function generator. (a design that I recently decided to build again)Kids can progress really quickly at that age because their brains are growing really rapidly. How far they go later on may depend a lot more than we now realize on how far they go then.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:08:18 am
content: If soldering is desired, then a simple solder kit is easy to come by. I hate the velleman kits, finding them pretty boring compared to what was available in the 70's, but they are certainly easy. I really enjoyed putting together a strobe light kit with my dad when I was that age. That it ad 100's of volts and could kill me was extra appealing.But what I could do at that age on my own were the spring kits. They were Radio Shack units, but I think Elenco is making them now.https://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronic-Playground-Learning-Center/dp/B0035XSZDIJust looking at all the through-hole parts on these, though, I realize that they may be more oriented towards nostalgia 40-60 year olds than actual kids.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:13:54 am
content: Slightly tangential, but "Sylvia's Mini Maker Show" has a bunch of inspirational videos, like this one:https://youtu.be/UDZo51k2BWQ

author: jeroen79
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:26:42 am
content: How about buying her a one-year membership for a local electronics/maker/hacker club?That will give her access to many tools and bring her in contact with other kids interested in electronics.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:38:08 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 03, 2018, 01:13:54 amWhatever happened to Sylvia? Is she still making videos?EDIT: 3 years ago was the last one it seemshttps://www.youtube.com/user/SuperAwesomeSylvia

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:41:19 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 03, 2018, 01:38:08 amProbably she grew up and lost interest...

author: amlu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 01:49:50 pm
content: Thanks everyone.Will send a link to this thread to my interested friends,with some recommendations for an 8008 meter, hakko clone iron, power supply - that can be the present.Soldering practice for now can be some leds, wires, resistors, small breadboard, random pcb offcuts, whatever i find cluttering the lab. No much waste if they dont like it...Hopefully they will watch the videos and decide if they want to go into analog kits or arduino bits themselves.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 03:13:51 pm
content: That seems like a nice start and you can always pass along stuff you aren't using.One reason I like the Arduino projects is that they are usually well documented and 'something' happens. An LED flashes, a servo turns, whatever... At least something is happening.Most analog electronics is kind of a next step up in that it takes a meter or scope to see if anything is happening. Transistor analog circuits are important but they just don't provide the visual feedback of success that you can get from an Arduino project.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 03:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: amlu on December 02, 2018, 10:09:33 pmWhatever you choose, try to tie it in with a child'sotherinterests, e.g. a train set, clothes, pets, music etc.Then they can see that the electronics/software is fun and useful. The latter can be a motivating force.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 05:19:21 pm
content: https://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-partners-electronics-set/p231303519I was thinking of buying myself one for Christmas

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 10:22:30 pm
content: A few years ago I tried the Crystal Radio thing with a couple of family friends who was about 11. It didn't work out very well. Would not recommend it.There is no mystique in building your own crystal radio when it only lets you listen to mostly religious programming or talkback radio, through one ear, at very low volumes and you still have to run a wires out a window to a water pipe and a tree to make it work.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 10:35:28 pm
content: Definitely avoid Arduino for now as it's too much keyboarding to start with. You want kits etc. that do something interesting on their own to start with. Maybe something that can subsequently be modified via Arduino etc.Get hold of some dead (battery operated) electronics to take apart and a set of screwdrivers etc.Pretty much any multimeter for starters, but get something with autoranging - should be able to find something for £10-15 Plenty on Ebay but beware of Chinese sellers that may take too long to arrive for Christmas.Cheap breadboards and selection of LEDs etc. There's tons of cheap component sets and kits on ebay

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 11:59:04 pm
content: One of these would be cheap and incredibly useful, if it was clearly marked that it could be damaged by charged capacitors, and so they had to be discharged before testing them.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/$20-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/