Need recommendation for a relatively "cheap" general purpose rework station  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2017, 11:01:25 pm
content: I'm curious what's out there which doesn't cost an arm and three legsNot specific to any particular type of rework, my intention is for reworking any surface mounted parts, BGA too (but not essential).Also, when I say rework I don't just mean your average hot air unit, I mean something like this which I found with a random search:http://termoprocenter.com/products/ik_650_proSome possible candidates for rework are:cell phones, TVs, games consolesAny ideas please?Note: as you can tell by my description above I've not really looked into something like this before - I'm fine with soldering, have my own hot air tool, soldering station, etc it's just that I want something that's far better at dealing with the more modern PCBs and their assorted, often tiny with multiple pins, surface mounted components (both removing and adding them - not just chips but connectors too).

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 03:28:34 am
content: So you are looking for a IR station? What is your budget?cell phones you can use most of the times only hot air as they don't use large chips, otherwise TVs and consoles have large chips that goes better with IR, still possible to use hotair if you use a quality station like Quick 861DW.

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 10:07:07 am
content: Budget? As cheap as possible while still being a good, reliable unit.IR is something that is tempting but from doing a little browsing it seems that the only way to concentrate the applied heat is to mask off areas that must remain untouched, is that right? Naturally I don't want to heat surrounding components and accidentally knock them off for example. IR heat can't be "focused" into a fixed area can it?One thing that I may need good heat for is removing connectors which have lugs connected to a large ground plane - even my current hot air station has a job getting the solder on these hot enough to remove without causing damage. I'm thinking that IR would be better for these for example.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 03:03:56 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 12, 2017, 10:07:07 amI think a good and reliable IR have high costs. You can look at ERSA HR 550. It will depend on your max working area requirements. There are other cheap IR for about 1000 EUR or a bit less.To use IR you will end doing the same as you do with hot air, don't you cover some nearby components from hotair? With IR you will use reflective tape to protect from heat. I think IR is more controlated and easy, you have less heat spread. You can focus a area with IR, that area will depend on the IR head.What hot air station do you have?I can do almost anything with hotair. For TVs CPUs, large BGA ie. PS3, PS4, i use a bottom IR plate to preheat the whole board up to 160ºc. Then i use my Quick 861DW to unsolder the BGA and it work pretty well. I can also solder it back.For connectors hotair will work too you just need patience. For me lead free connectors on a flex: 250ºc, connectors on board 280-300ºc without melt them, more than that will melt connectors, renember that connectors this days are made to support the lead free soldering temperatures plus a margin. If you can connect the other side of the connector it will also help to not melt as you will end having more heatshink on the connector itself.

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 05:36:52 pm
content: I don't have an IR plate, perhaps that and a better hot air rework station would be a better investment for me? Up until now I've really only worked on really old PCBs with surface mount components so it's not been necessary as my station has coped moderately well, but on newer boards an IR plate seems like a good idea.This is my hot air rework station:http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/zd-939a-89-3912/station-hot-air-bs-plug/dp/SD01139?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-DURATOOL-SD01139Must admit that I've never been that impressed with the heat it produces. I even had to recently replace the heater element as it failed.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 06:29:20 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 12, 2017, 05:36:52 pmThat machine is not good for serious work or large chips.http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1595619.pdf"24 Litres/Minute" is not enough for large BGA, if you use a larger nozzle you will see that air output is very low, almost no airflow.Beside l/m you need stable temperature, no matter if your station can reach the 500ºc, only reliable stations can deliver constant temperature. You can measure your station temperature with a temp metter. And if possible calibrate it before use.Depending on your needs and your work area you should ask what you need better or best fit your work.In my opinion i think you should get a good hot air station first, because they are cheaper than IR and maybe is what you will end to use more.IR is best used for large chips, CPU, chipsets and others.My suggestion for hotair is Quick 861DW, you can't get any better for the price and note that station will outperform other expensiver stationsRead this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/(tip)-best-budgetcheap-soldering-stations-and-tools/

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 06:46:48 pm
content: Thanks. To be honest it's not that likely that I'll do any BGA rework at all, but it sounds like the Quick 861W is a good general purpose tool as well.I'll look into it.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 07:01:58 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 12, 2017, 06:46:48 pmIn that case i think hotair will be best for you and cheaper. You will never go wrong with Quick 861DW, it worth every cent.

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 07:06:16 pm
content: Thanks.Also, I'm used to having a good selection of nozzles for my ZD-939 which I use on assorted surface mounted chips (square, rectangular, two rows, large, small, round, etc) but the Quick 861W doesn't seem to have many nozzles at all and certainly none of the square ones or other shapes (except for round). Am I missing something?Scroll down on the following link for a selection of nozzles on the ZD-939http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/zd-939a-89-3912/station-hot-air-bs-plug/dp/SD01139

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 10:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 12, 2017, 07:06:16 pmQuick have a big selection, NK nozzles, but hard to find and a bit expensive.My recommendation is buy it with the adaptor NK-850 and use universal nozzles or with you already have.I rare use other than stock nozzles, so not a big problemI only use BGA nozzles when i need for big chips like TV CPUYou can see my collection here:https://www.facebook.com/pg/PTRTECH/photos/?tab=album&album_id=287473531736827EDIT: See NK nozzles here:http://www.primedistributing.com/Quick_Nozzles_s/11262.htm

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 09:49:47 am
content: Excellent, thanks - sounds like an adaptor is the way to go so I'll look into that that.BTW, that's a nice selection of nozzles that you have there, and I thought I had a lot for my ZD-939! Great to know that I should be able to use those with an adapter.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 07:23:51 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 13, 2017, 09:49:47 amyes, but renember that adaptor + nozzle will increase handpiece lenght and some nozzles will oversize max stand height, make handpiece to not completly fit into stand. When i use BGA nozzles handpiece will fit only at middle and nozzle will touch the stand floor.That not a problem to me, since i only use that nozzles for specific things and only once.The middle stock nozzle do almost everything for me.The second nozzles row (Round ones) and probally all others universal rounds on that photo are useless but they come on a kit together with BGA and othersBTW, i ordered from eleshop.nl, the adaptor already included, but EU mains! Good for me but maybe not for you since you are in UK.Note that you can order from UK but many models there are the 861DA which use different nozzle sizes and don't have any adaptor. You should go with DW, DE or DS

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 07:25:56 pm
content: Noted, I appreciate the excellent advice, thanks a lot. :-)

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 07:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 13, 2017, 07:25:56 pmYou welcome, i can tell you that good quality equipment will do the difference.I had a Int998 before, very similar to your machine, steady temperature but weak airflow, useless for big stuff.Quick 861DW is a monster at unbeateble priceI like it more than JBC hot air stationAlso if you can't find the adaptor at your country stores, order the UK main version at any store and after that order the NK adaptor from eleshop. You will split the order but is a must have.My last advice is to choose your main nozzle that you will use most of the times and then calibrate the temperature for that, my come with good factory calibration. But don't skip this!I recomend the mid size stock nozzle. But depends on you.If you got it don't forget to share your feedback

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 07:34:04 pm
content: All noted, thanks again.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 07:44:06 pm
content: I'm not a fan of the AIO rework stations (i.e. min = hot air + solder) as if one side breaks, the other is out too (not a good idea to try and fix something live).In my case, I've also a Quick 861DW for hot air. And as it happens, I find I don't even need specialty nozzles for it. The 3 round nozzles that come with it will do IME (ideally, they'd be bent to ~45 degrees or so, but that's fixable). I find making shields/protectors to be better anyway to contain the heat where you want it (ready-made are also available from JBC).This particular hot air station is amazing IMHO (sufficient power + intuitive UI), and there's nothing out there that comes close to it's cost-performance ratio. And the savings by purchasing it can be better used elsewhere, such as your soldering iron as that's what you'll use more often.Not sure how much desoldering you'll do, but I still stick with a decent sucker and wick as I don't do enough of it to justify a dedicated desolder station. Even then, you'll still need wick for final cleaning of pads. I do have a cheap hot air preheater which does come in handy on occasion.

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 07:51:43 pm
content: Thanks very much for the additional recommendation and info.As for desoldering, I have one of these:http://uk.farnell.com/denon-instruments/sc7000z/desoldering-gun-esd-uk-plug/dp/956880I'm very pleased with it on the whole but parts are expensive, even the filter cartridges cost a small fortune.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 08:04:39 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 13, 2017, 07:51:43 pmI'm aware that the Denon is a decent tool, but damn... that's expensive.Granted I'm in the US and can get the Hakko FR-300 for less, but it's also less than the Denon in the UK/EU as well (FR-300 for 235EUR).Regarding consumables, will the Hakko/Hakko clone stuff fit the Denon?

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2017, 08:11:42 pm
content: Yeah, the Denon is expensive, but I found a cheaper supplier when I bought mine a few years ago.I don't know if the Hakko/Hakko clone stuff can be used on the Denon, I doubt it though?