HP 8594E Spectrum Analyzer. At last I own a decent Spec An. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 02:47:38 am
content: I've never owned (or even used) a decent spectrum analyzer. Now I do. Lifelong goal achieved! (Though maybe I am tempting the international shipping gremlins by talking about it before it arrives.)Over past decades I'd picked up two very old HP 141T systems for free. But the prospect of getting those going, even though I did get the manuals, was too daunting. I am not experienced with RF, and lacking anything to compare results against as a confidence boost, faded storage CRTs, and no prospect of transferring measurements to a PC other than by taking screen photos, that project kept sliding down the list.Otoh, more modern spectrum analyzers are always quite expensive (on my retired & cash-poor scale.) So it just never happened.Recently while doing some small ebay buys, I came across this:https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-KEYSIGHT-8594E-SPECTRUM-ANALYZER-W-OPTIONS-041-0B0-140/2636120946518594E SPECTRUM ANALYZER W/OPTIONS 041, 0B0, 140 “POWER CORD NOT INCLUDED. THE CASE IS BENT IN THE BACK."US $649.99It sure is 'bent in the back.' Has been very heavily dropped. The bent metal is visually ugly and offputting, but something I could repair. It runs, but what's the internal damage? I thought they might accept a much lower offer, like maybe $300, and that would make the gamble worthwhile.Nope. The lowest they'd go was US$600. Not very sensible imo, and certainly not an acceptable price. So I looked around a bit more. Expecting everything equivalent to be still out of my price range. (Shipping plus the pathetic Aus exchange rate are the killing touch.)Found this:https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-8594E-Spectrum-Analyzer-Options-041-105-140-User-Manuals/1225143122978594E Spectrum Analyzer + Options: 041, 105, 140 + User ManualsUS $850.00Options: 041, HP-IB & parallel printer interfaces105, Time gated spec analysis140 Narrow bandwidth and precision freq refThe user manuals included: Programmer's, User's, & Calibration Guide.This is a HUGE plus for me (who has never used one before, and bitterly hates PDF unwieldy garbage 'manuals'.)Apparently other people thought it was an interesting deal too, as it had about 15 watchers. Or rather 15 ditherers.I've bought from this seller before, and had checked that they would pack with foam-in-place. Essential for shippingsomething like this internationally.After a short offer & counter offer sequence, I got it for US$600 and its on its way. I'm sure some will relate stories of getting equivalent instruments for far less, hoping to spoil my buzz. But I'm happy with the price. Though now broke again.Next I get to enjoy the new Aus 'GST on second hand imported goods', which they enforce on reshippers by arguing 'it's a tax on the service of reshipping' but really just because they can. Urrgh. Bastards. How I'd love to see Canberra nuked.Anyway...I'm interested to hear any hints and tips people may have on the HP 8594e. Certainly anyone who knows anything at all about these instruments, knows more than me.Specific things I'm after:* The matching PC software.* Any other user guides that aren't in the set I'm getting. Like quick setup guide, and so on.* The personality cards. Are there any good sources of these? Or just the binaries, and a design for the cards?* Other options hardware, like maybe the internal tracking generator.I'm betting there is no actual for-real service manual with schematics available? Prove me wrong.Some of seller's photos attached.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 04:23:41 am
content: http://artekmanuals.com/manuals/hp-manuals/ctrl-F for 8594E, and it looks like they have what you might be looking for.Looks like a nice grab! I have an 8568B on the way myself.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 05:45:55 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on January 22, 2019, 04:23:41 amSplendid! I didn't want to seem like I'm too lazy to search, but I only bought it yesterday and haven't yet begun searching. Asked, because people can be so helpful. Thank you.http://artekmanuals.com/manuals/hp-manuals/search for 8594E finds:* Service NO 8590-90316 $10.00 ASSEMBLY LEVEL SERVICE ( NO SCHEMATICS)* CLIP YES 5963-2951 $25.00 FULL SCHEMATICS SCANNED AT 1200 DPIThat is quite surprising. I'd thought this model was produced well into the era when HP didn't give out schematics.Saved for reference. Just now I'm so broke that scraping up enough for the shipping from CA to Oz will be a problem.I don't suppose anyone (in Oz, or better yet Sydney) wants a good deal on a Sony a7ii camera?https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/revesby/digital-slr/sony-a7ii-excellent-condition-extras-included-/1207151994I'm selling that for my son (he left it here when he moved overseas) but I get to keep the money. Too bad I put off selling it till now (just after Sony released a new model.)Quote from: 0culus on January 22, 2019, 04:23:41 amThose monster things look awesome. The perfect thing to satisfy one's TEA, and I had that model on my list of possibles. But given my lack of RF skills, and lack of remaining spare rack space, I thought I'd go for something smaller, portable, and less likely to be out of cal. I hope you do a teardown when it arrives.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 07:27:20 am
content: Hey, no worries on the manuals. It's nice that they do still have schematics for that model.As it happens, a teardown and repair may be happening. Not as bad as it sounds though! The original RF unit as-listed developed problems overnight with broadband noise when the seller tested it before shipping. After much troubleshooting he couldn't find the issue (but isolated it to a few candidates) so he is sending me the display unit, the problem RF unit, and another RF unit that's actually a factory upgraded 8568A to 8568B unit, just for a bit of extra shipping.You could buy the upgrade kit in the day and do it yourself, but a lot of places sent them to the factory to be upgraded. So it has both it's original 1977 serial number and a B serial number applied in 1985 when the upgrade was installed. That unit is in perfectly fine working order. So I'm going to be looking around for a "donor" RF unit that hopefully is in working order that I can swap parts to the problematic unit until I locate the source of the noise that appears to be coming from somewhere in the mixer/LO chain. Definitely will share pics/progress on that.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 05:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 22, 2019, 02:47:38 amOne thing you should do is backup the calibration constants. They are stored in battery powered SRAM and if the battery dies unexpectedly you will need to regenerate the constants via the calibration procedure. If you have a copy of the constants you can just reload them if the battery dies.The backup procedure is in the Assembly Level Repair manual, chapter 3. It's a manual procedure which involves stepping through the constants and writing them down in a chart.In case you didn't buy the Assembly Repair manual from Artek:http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/08590-90316.pdfAnd the Calibration Guide, in your hated PDF format, FYI:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/08594-90106.pdfThere's lots of documentation on this series still available from Keysight including the user manual and a manual on how to use your gated analysis option 105:https://www.keysight.com/en/pc-1000000308%3Aepsg%3Apgr/discontinued-859x-series-portable-spectrum-analyzers?pm=LB&nid=-32440.0&c=204590.i.1&to=79830.g.0&cc=US&lc=engThe CLIP with schematics is definitely worth getting from Artek. There are versions of the CLIP floating around for the 8590A, which is close in design to the 859xE series, but the scans are poor quality.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 06:35:27 pm
content: For screenshots download KE5FX's 7470 poltter emulator utility.Be prepaired to replace the battery, look at indications when the battery was last replaced, could be a sticker with a date or something. Battery replacement procedure can be found in this forum somewhere, involves taking a board out and swapping the battery while relying on the charge hold by the memory capacitor. I'd assume the battery has to be replaced if you cant find information when it was changed if ever.Edit: oh, i just looked at your last photo and there is a sticker with the battery change date, it just not clear from the photo what thd year was, seems to be 1xxx, if so you should probably go ahead with replacing the battery.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 06:43:39 pm
content: Also keep in mind the close to the carrier phase noise of the device is about 80 dBc/Hz if i remember correctly, so you can't measure external signal near phase noise better than that, the analyzer will dsplay its own phase noise.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 07:05:55 pm
content: RF toys are the best, congrats on your purchase!

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 08:30:54 pm
content: Oh yeah, I'm sure you know this, but many SAs (including this one) cannot tolerate any DC level on the RF input. DC blocks are your friend to ensure the signal is AC coupled and prevent an expensive repair.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 09:52:23 pm
content: Quote from: 0culus on January 22, 2019, 08:30:54 pmIn general that's very sage advice.But on the 8594E (and 94L/95E/96E), the attenuator has a built-in DC block which is always in-line by default. It is rated 50V, and also limits the lower range to 100kHz when in-line.You can see the DC block in the block diagram in the Assembly Level Repair manual, and it also appears in the specifications in the Calibration Guide for those models.They all have warnings on the front panel of "0VDC MAX", but that is only true if you manually change the coupling to DC in the AMPLITUDE menu (3rd page).

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 09:54:36 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on January 22, 2019, 09:52:23 pmInteresting! Learn something new every day.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 10:07:42 pm
content: I am reading this thread out of interest...Could someone explain what the "OVEN COLD" and "REF UNLOCKED" mean?Well I know they mean that the oven of the OCXO is still cold and that the reference signal is not locked - but is it a fault or did the machines in the pictures just not warm up enough?Is this a sign to keep your fingers from similar offers on eBay or does it mean the seller doesn't know much about the device and did not test it properly, considering that it works because something is happening on the screen?Thanks,Vitor

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 10:14:44 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 22, 2019, 06:35:27 pmIt's in the Assembly Level Repair chpt. 7, under a section called "A16A1BT1 Battery".But backup the constants first, just in case!

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 10:22:51 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 22, 2019, 10:07:42 pmAlmost every time REF UNLOCKED is because the block jumper from "REF OUTPUT" to "REF INPUT" on the back is missing (as is the case in one of those listings). It seems that people like to pull them off and sell them separately for a ridiculous price.The SA will still run without it, but with meaningless frequency readings.EDIT: Fixed ambiguity.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:59:48 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 22, 2019, 10:07:42 pmAs explained by MarkL above, the "oven cold" (probably) means the seller didn't leave the unit running long enough before taking the photo. And "ref unlocked" typically means there's no freq reference to lock to. In the first link I gave, because some fool has swiped the jumper from the back of the machine. You can see that in the seller's pics of the machine rear. Given that seller's price grasping on a badly damaged unit, it was probably him.On the one I bought the jumper is in place, and the screen says "ref uncal" which is (probably) just because the crystal oven is cold.Quote from: Bud on January 22, 2019, 06:43:39 pmAnd once I have this thing to play with, I will be able to teach myself what the hell that all means. (I get it a *little* bit.)Is the unit's Option 140 "Narrow bandwidth and precision freq ref" relevant to that?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:42:15 am
content: Quote from: MarkL on January 22, 2019, 05:32:55 pmThanks for the manual ref. I knew about the battery issue, and had struggled to decipher that obscured label date. Looks like 199-something. Anyway, new battery time. I wonder if there's a way to read them out via the GP-IB?QuoteThanks. I had found the first one, not the 2nd.My PDF hatred is layered. There are things I don't like about 'electronic documents' in general (GUI awkwardness, and untrusted nature), about the fundamental format (long list), and about specific typical flaws in example PDF documents.The ones you linked above are about as good as PDF can get. Created in PDF, not scans, with working indexing and internal links.You know what PDFs of crappy scans are like. But then there are abortions like this:https://www.naic.edu/~phil/hardware/spectrumAnalyzer/hp8590_SpecAnal_UsersGuide.pdfAnother ghastly JBIG2 encoding dog's vomit. Hint: look at the right hand page numbers in the Index. This one has been encoded with fairly high patch matching threshold, but it's still utter crap. Complete waste of bits, and dangerous because it's not immediately obvious how bad it is, but there _are_ actual factual errors introduced by the patch encoding.QuoteI definitely will be getting the Artek docs. But I am soooo broke right now, and needing to scrape up cash for the US to Oz shipping of the 8594E, that $25 will have to wait. (I just paid for shipping on two other things from the reshipper in CA, which didn't help.)Quote from: MarkL on January 22, 2019, 09:52:23 pmHmm, interesting. I knew in general 'avoid DC inputs.' I have a 20GHz scope that has +/-2V absolute max input rating, which requires all kinds of cable discharge and anti-static incantations. I haven't blown it up YET. But it would have taken me ages to come across the existence of a switchable (default in-circuit) isolating cap in the 8594e input. I'd probably have been wondering why it couldn't see signal between 9Khz and 100Khz.I suppose even with the cap in-circuit, one should avoid DC voltage steps on the input. Will bear in mind to check how sensitive it is to damage of that kind.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:54:33 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 23, 2019, 01:59:48 amYes, relevant, But that is fine, if you do not know at the moment what it means then you did not have a need to measure phase noise.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 05:23:55 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 23, 2019, 02:42:15 amIn short, no, not in a way that I would rely on.There is a GPIB command called "CAL DUMP" which contains most, but not all, of the needed cal constants for backup along with a pile of other data which I don't see any documentation for. I also don't see a GPIB command to restore the data to the SA from this dump format.I would stick with the filling-in-the-chart method, since that's also used in the procedure to restore the constants. It doesn't take very long, otherwise you're in uncharted territory with your cal backup.You could do CAL DUMP as a secondary method to make sure you have the numbers written down right, since most of the numbers are embedded in there, or the time-tested method of taking a video of the screen while you step through the constants if you're feeling lazy.8590E Series Programmer Guide:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/08590-90235.pdf

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:07:04 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on January 23, 2019, 05:23:55 pmThis is the first thing I would do after power up. If you lose the back-up battery you lose the last RF level calibration information. Put it on paper - you'll be glad you did.rastro

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:25:44 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on January 23, 2019, 05:23:55 pmThe pun, it burns!Or I could just change the battery quickly, hoping nothing goes wrong.Just kidding. Charts it is.Re incomplete GPIB 'CAL DUMP'. Gee, it's almost like they deliberately laid a trap, knowing some users would assume CAL DUMP did something useful. Then would end up sending the instrument back for some very expensive HP attention, after they found they didn't actually have a workable calibration backup. But no, I can't imagine a corporation doing something sneaky and profit motivated like that. (Yes I can.)QuoteI'm a big fan of reliable, never-fail paper records.QuoteYesterday I spent over an hour downloading almost everything on the keysight pages for the 8590. Even ones with no relevance to my interests. They are a trove of RF practice.And so I already have that pdf, thanks. Plus joyfully, an original paper manual among those coming with the instrument. Ha, it's still in the original shrink-wrap.All currently in a truck driving over the Rockies, I gather. Am praying to the gods of foam-in-place.Speaking of phase noise, here's a list of the HP Application notes I have. In paper originals. Anyone with a stack of them they were about to downsize, please let me know.Some are relevant to spectrum analyzers (and phase noise.) Now I have (touch wood) something to play with, it'll be worth reading them.Can anyone recommend other good reads on care & use of spectrum analyzers?Hewlett Packard application notes---------------------------------H prefix = 'I have physical copy'> prefix = 'ordered physical copy'p prefix = I have a pdf copy#4 The PIN diode#52 Frequency and time standardsH #57 Noise Figure Primer 1965#57-1 Fundamentals of RF and Microwave Noise Figure Measurements 1983 8970A#57-1 Agilent Fundamentals of RF and Microwave Noise Figure Measurements 2000 859X-NFA#57-2 Noise Figure Measurement Accuracy 1988 8970B#57-2 Noise Figure Measurement Accuracy - The Y-Factor Method 2001 8590X-346X#57-3 10 Hints for Making Successful Noise Figure Measurements 2000H #63 Spectrum Analysis 1968#63A More on Spectrum Analysis#64 Microwave Power MeasurementH #64-1 Fundamentals of RF and microwave power measurements> #64-2 Extended application of automatic power meters 380442352194H #64-3 Accurate and automatic Noise Figure Measurements 1980#65 Swept Frequency Techniques, printed Aug. 1965H #73 Calibration of a Gamma Ray SpectrometerH #77-1 Transistor Parameter Measurements#77-2 Precision Frequency ComparisonH #77-3 Measurement of Complex Impedance#77-4 Swept Frequency Group Delay measurement#83 Increased Output Resistance for DC Regulated Power Supplies#84 Swept SWR Measurements in Coax#86 Using Vector Impedance metersH #89 Magnetic tape recording handbook#90 DC POWER SUPPLY HANDBOOKH #90B DC Power supply handbook (book)H #91 How vector measurements expand design capabilitiesH #92 Network Analysis at Microwave Freq !!!! uses 8410.#94 Connector design employing TDR techniques#95 S-Parameters - circuit analysis and design#95-1 S Parameters Techniques for faster design#99 8541A Automatic Network Analyzer Measurements capabilities#102 Program controllers#107 Guard Circuits#112-2 Using 675/675A Network analyz as an education tool#114 A2A Video Transmission System Alignment 1969#116 Precision Frequency MeasurementsH #117-1 Microwave network analyzer applications (book) (uses 8410) x3#117-2 Stripline component measurement with 8410a#122 EMI Measurement Procedure. Calibration & Operation of the HP 851/ 8551BSpectrum Analyzer to Measure Electromagnetic InterferenceH #123 Floating Measurements and Guarding, published June 1970.H #124 True RMS measurementsH #126 Theory and Applications of Wave Analyzers, published November 1970. x2H #136 Understanding & Operating the 8555A Spectrum Analyzer and 8445A Preselector. 1971H #139 Stabilizing Gamma-Ray Spectrometer Systems 260571717091#140-0 Fourier Analyzer Training ManualH #144 Understanding Microwave Frequency MeasurementsH #150 Spectrum Analysis... Spectrum Analyzer Basics (Uses HP 141T)#150B Spectrum Analysis... Using the 8557A and 8558B Spectrum Analyzers. pub Feb 1975.H #150-1 Spectrum Analysis... Amplitude and Frequency Modulation. Nov 1971H #150-2 Spectrum Analysis... Pulsed RF. (uses 141T) (slide rule in back pocket)H #150-3 Swept frequency measurements and selective frequency counting with a tracking generator. (uses 141T)#150-4 Spectrum analysis... Noise measurements Apr 1974H #150-5 Spectrum Analysis... CRT Photography and X-Y Recording Techniques#150-6 Spectrum Analysis... CATV Proof of Performance#150-7 Spectrum Analysis... Signal Enhancement#150-8 Spectrum Analysis... Accuracy Improvement#150-9 Spectrum Analysis... Noise Figure Measurement#150-9 Spectrum Analysis... Field Strength Measurement#150-10 Spectrum Analysis... Distortion Measurement#150-11 Spectrum Analysis... Distortion measurements (uses 141T)H #150-12 Spectrum Analysis... Using the HP 11517A External Mixer to 40GHz Nov 1977.H #150-13 Spectrum Analysis... Using the HP 8565A Spectrum Analyzer from 2-18GHz Aug 1978.#150-14 Spectrum Analysis... Using External Waveguide Mixers Above 40 GHz#155-1 Active Device Measurements with the HP 8755 Frequency Response Test Set, printed Aug. 1978#155-2 100 dB Dynamic Range Measurements Using the HP 8755 Frequency Response Test Set, printed Sept. 1977#155-3 Automating the HP 8755 Scalar Network Analyzer, printed Jan. 1981#158 Selecting The Right DVMH #162-1 Time interval averagingH #163-1 techniques of digital troubleshootingH #163-2 The IC troubleshooters - New techniques of digital troubleshootingH #167-5 Trouble shooting in the data domain is simplified by logic analyzersH #167-6 Mapping, a dynamic display of digital system operationH #167-7 Supplementary data from map displays without changing probes#167-9 Functional analysis of the Motorola M6800 uP systemH #171-1 HP 8640A/B & HP 8405A Application note - crystal testing (1923820255)H #173 Recent advances in pulsed RF and microwave frequency measurements#173-1 Dynamic measurement of microwave voltage controled oscillators with the 5345A#174-1 Transfer Characteristic of a VCOH #174-3 5345 counter. Measuring Integral Nonlinearity of a VCO#174-4 5345 counter. Measuring dual VCO tracking error.H #174-6 5345 counter. Measuring the Stability of a Freq Source#174-8 5345 Measuring FM Peak-to-Peak deviationH #174-10 5345 Electronic counter - meas. electrical length of cables#174-12 5345 Measuring frequency sweep linearity of sweep generatorsH #175-1 Differential phase and gain at workH #183 High freq swept measurements.#185 Waveform Parameter Measurements using the Mircoprocessor ControlledOscilloscope Model 1722A. Dec 1974#185-2 Transmission line matching and length measurements usingdual delayed sweep in the uP controlled scope Model 1722A#185-4 Elimination of computation on analog measurements by using thedirect reading oscilloscope model 1722A#187-3 Three HP-IB Configurations for Making Microwave Scalar MeasurementsH #191-6 Precision time interval generation & measurement apps libraryH #196 Automated measurements using the 436A pwer meter#200 Fundamentals of the electronic countersH #200-1 Fundamentals of microwave frequency countersH #200-2 Fundamentals of Quartz oscillators#200-4 Understanding frequency counter specifications#201-2 Differential Non-Linearity of a VCO#205-1 Low Freq Amp Considerations of 3042AH #207 Understanding and measuring phase noise in the freq domain#216 HP Digital Network and Spectrum Analysis primerA guide to the use of the HP3570A/71A AnalyzersH #221A Automating the 8410B Microwave Network Analyzer (won 2527060511) in 8409B binderH #222 A designer's guide to signature analysisH #225 Measuring phase spectral density of synthesized signal sources ...with the 5390A frequency stability analyzerH #240-0 Digital signal analysis - time & freq domain measurementsH #243 The Fundamentals of Signal AnalysisH #243-1 Dynamic signal analyzer applicationsH #243-2 Control system development using dynamic signal analyzersH #243-3 The fundamentals of modal testing#246-1 Optimizing the dynamic range of the HP 3585A spectrum analyzerH #262 Eliminating time-base errors from oscilloscope measurements (HP 1725A/1727A)H #286-1 Applications and operation of the 8901A modulation analyzer#286-2 Accurate Mixer/Amplifier compression measurement using the 8901A modulation analyzerH #292 Minicomputer analysis techniques using logic analyzersH #297-1 8161A programmable pulse generatorp #319 Parametric characterization of digital circuits up to 50MHzwith the 8180A/8182A stimulus.response system.H #358-1 HP 5371A frequency and Time interval analyzerH #372-1 Power supply testing#401-2 Programming Guide for the 59307A#401-3 5345A/1000 Programming ExampleH #401-13 HP 3325A Synthesizer/Function Generator and 1000 Computer Programmnig Guide 1979#916 HPA GaSa Sources#920 HARMONIC GENERATION USING STEP RECOVERY DIODES &SRD MODULES#1304-2 Time Domain Reflectometry Theory for use with HP 54750A and HP 83480A Mainframes, printed 1988Misc-----H 1987 Tutorial description of the HP-IB interfaceHP Slide rule calculators (cardboard)-------------------------------------H HP REFLECTOMETER CALCULATOR dB to VSWR error limitsA Hewlett-Packard reflectometer calculator / mismatch error limits calculator.It is used to convert return loss (in dB) to (VSWR) Voltage Standing Wave Ratioand also calculates mismatch error limits. For more information referenceHP Application Note 183 "High Frequency Swept Measurements".Especially useful for microwave work when using directional couplers for returnloss. This calculator has been out of print for many years and is hard to find.H HP Vector Impedance calculator / Capacitance - Inductance - Reactance calculator.For use with HP 4815A Vector Impedance Meter.H Pulsed RF Calculator. 1971.In pocket at back of HP App Note 150-2, Spectrum Analysis... Pulsed RF.BOOKS-----H Microwave Theory and MeasurementsHewlett-Packard Company Engineering Staff of the Microwave DivisionBought 20120419 via abebooks.com $10 + $15 postageH Phase noise. RF & Microwave Phase noise Measureent Seminar HP.(A photocopy in blue ring spine w peach covers. 118 pages.)Others------H Feeling comfortable with Logic Analyzers. 5954-2686 Printed April 1988.References & sources--------------------http://www.hpmemory.org/news/an150/an150_page_00.htmhttp://www.hparchive.com/Application_Notes/HP-App-Note-Index-1967-Revised.pdfhttp://mmhewpack.free.fr/ressources/resrc_an_01.htmhttp://www.hpmemory.org/ressources/resrc_an_01.htmI'd like to expand this to a complete listing of all HP app notes ever published.Actually collecting all these old App Notes is probably an unachievable ambition. But I'd like to.The ultimate goal being to scan them all in the high visual quality and display technology they deserve,as opposed to the often very poor quality scans as pdf that can be found on the net now.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:13:21 am
content: As to OVEN COLD, it's on TIMER! It is not actually measuring anything, like OVEN temperature. It will simply count few seconds since power has been applied. I don't remember how many minutes but this is in manual.REF UNLOCK is bad. When OVEN is fully warm, this error should not be coming on. As mentioned, it's either loop back connector on back panel is missing, xtal oscillator wildly unstable, or something really really bad. (like YIG not working) Personally, I wouldn't buy one without having explanations on why.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 03:56:41 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on January 24, 2019, 01:13:21 amReading the service guide, I see you're correct.QuoteAh, don't scare me like that. Yep, service guide pg 649 goes into drama-land unless the cause is a missing back panel jumper. I remembered mine _has_ the jumper, so was breaking out in a sweat. But then I checked the screen shots of mine and it says FREQ UNCAL not REF UNLOCK. Service Guide pg 638 suggests the most likely cause is a flat battery and the machine is running with default cal data. Just needs a new battery and to run the CAL FREQ routine. (And the rest of self-cal. An adventure!)Wish I'd looked that up when haggling, could possibly have got a few more dollars off the price. Nevermind.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 04:04:54 am
content: It would be nice if error message was more in plain language. "Dead Battery" is much more useful information. You'll have the same error message if your battery runs out on signal generator HP8644.It must be an HP thing.

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 07:38:23 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 23, 2019, 11:25:44 pm856XE analysers use EEPROM to store the calibration data. I think it dates from older 8563A design. There's alsoa jumper which prevents changing the calibration.I wonder why they decided to keep it in SRAM for 859X. Maybe they got tired of opening the case to set the jumper and got rid of that procedure and the EEPROM altogether?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 10:49:45 am
content: You're not being paranoid enough. Maybe they got sick of machines just keeping on working indefinitely? As opposed to getting flat battery, with deliberately obscure error message and many customers giving up at that point and BUYING A NEW MACHINE.There is a warning message listed:USING DEFAULTS self cal needed (U)Indicates that the current correction factors are the default correction factors and that the CAL FREQ &AMPTD routine needs to beperformed.But that's not very direct. Why not "CAL DATA LOST. Replace battery" The machine knows when it's lost the cal data (presumably via a block checksum fail) because it switches to using a default set of cal data. But does it give you a simple, to the point warning about that? Apparently not.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 10:58:03 am
content: Nice! I got an 8590W some years ago, for... I don't even remember what, probably around 500 USD? Contemporary to yours, quite useful indeed.Tim

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 12:44:03 am
content: If they had their way, all error messages will be "fatal error: Err: 1-800-new-scpe"At my place of employment, my boss wanted an error message that everyone will instantly know it's fake. This is a diagnostic program to fake a message. "Error: Flux capacitor empty"Except, he didn't count for cultural factor. We still got calls from non-English speaking countries. Our QA is India. They didn't think it was funny at all.

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:36:35 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 24, 2019, 10:49:45 amI don't think that particular message was thoughtfully made hard to understand. Programmers usually think in terms of their code. So you normally end up with "error: loop cnt > MAX_LOOP_CNT" instead of "error: input frequency exceeds 1GHz". QA will pass on messages which are not too extreme.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:41:27 am
content: Quote from: kirill_ka on January 25, 2019, 09:36:35 amCan confirm from experience. And the more sinister problem is that even the programmer probably won't have the foggiest about what they meant by the message in 6 months.Relevant:https://i.redd.it/btd5aebzr5h01.jpg

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 02:31:23 am
content: An update and question.No progress yet on repairing the 8594E, due to other time demands.But the missing User Guide issue has been resolved. A rather long story, with the ebay seller's performance being the worst I've ever seen. It's all online here:http://everist.org/NobLog/20190223_full_spectrum.htmhttp://everist.org/NobLog/20190223_full_spectrum.htm#sumBrief summaryhttp://everist.org/NobLog/20190223_full_spectrum.htm#refundGetting a refund (sort of)My question:There's still the question of what ebay feedback I give this seller, for the original purchase and the manual 're-buy'. I'm torn between 'giving a cheat and liar what they deserve', and 'sympathy for a possibly struggling business having a hard time.' I find it hard to imagine such behavior from anyone unless they were desperately scraping for income.What do you think? I'd be happy to hear opinions.I'm inclined to give them two negatives, but maybe I'm just pissed off about something others would consider minor? Who thinks their partial refund amount is reasonable, as opposed to a minimal token gesture?

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 07:00:55 pm
content: How about sticking with facts? "Liar" is an opinion. "... was missing" is a fact.If there is a problem, I let the seller(s) know. If they correct it, it's fine. If they don't, it's a problem. My review will usually reflect that. There has been exactly one seller who didn't correct the problem after few hundred purchases. Ignored me for quite sometime and then lied. That's deliberate. That's the time to give bad reviews.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 02:51:26 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 14, 2019, 07:00:55 pmYou clearly didn't read the message exchange. Or even the summary. "Liar" is a fact too, in this case. They continued to claim they didn't have and could not find any such manual, even after I'd pointed out that they had 4 of that exact manual for sale in another listing. Eventually I bought one of them, and now have it here, so there's no use saying that listing was in error. They knew they had them, they knew I knew they did, yet they still claimed to not have any. I don't think there's a more suitable word other than 'liar'. Or maybe 'insane.'This is why I documented it all in such detail. Because it's just not believable if I merely described their behavior in general terms.I've been in similarly hard to believe situations before, more than once, so these days archive everything from the beginning, just in case it turns out to be necessary to publish.QuoteYes yes. You're just assuming I'm exaggerating, but no. Read the (tedious) event series. I think I was extremely patient with their bullsh*t. The only reason I don't give them TWO negatives right away, is even I can hardly believe it. Can't help thinking there may be some unknown circumstance, like they are having a breakdown, or on the verge of business failure, or just nuts.Meanwhile, finally the anti-static setup is complete.

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 01:07:46 am
content: I hope you have a few 100K 1.2W to 1meg resistor in series with your ground.

author: Neo2199
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 06:12:28 am
content: Hi, not sure if you still would like to continue the repair, but hopefully yes.I have just got a hands on HP 8594E. The SA has a dent from some mechanical fall, but otherwise in very good shape. I have replaced calibration battery with luckily calibration constants present. I have also replaced mains X2 and Y2 RIFA filter capacitors to prevent future explosions. So far so good. My SA is behaving much better than yours, but both FREQ and GAIN calibrations fail. The 300Mhz calibration signal is visible on the screen, but only under some amplitude settings. After some deeper investigation, measurements, consultation with internet and manuals. Here is where the problem is now.I am pretty confident that after that fix, my SA is good to go, hopefully. I would not be surprised if one of your issues is deteriorated piece of rubber. My case it was just one rubber ring, so only one relay at one state was compromised. Now I am waiting for new set of o-rings.Hope this helps.

author: K7SJB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 06:59:53 pm
content: What is CLIP?

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 07:44:49 pm
content: Quote from: K7SJB on January 27, 2021, 06:59:53 pmI think it means Component Level Info ?? Paper / Package orThe CLIP will show component level info , Ie. schematics etc.Instead of just block diagrams./Bingo

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 07:46:37 pm
content: Quote from: K7SJB on January 27, 2021, 06:59:53 pmCLIP is an HP/Agilent term and stands for Component-Level Information Packet.It's available for some old models of test gear, and contains parts manifest, PCB layouts, and schematics. They were produced mostly in the HP days, and much more rarely during Agilent. I haven't seen any issued by Keysight.

author: mattltm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 11:32:35 am
content: Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but I've just got my hands on my first "real" spec an, the 8594E with options 004, 119, 130, 010 and 041. I'm guessing that it's an upgrade to my current Rigol DSA815TG?I'm terrified about losing the calibration data after reading these posts! Is there an idiots guide for how to copy them down on paper?Thanks.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 03:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: mattltm on July 14, 2024, 11:32:35 amIt's easy to do the backup procedure. Just follow the step-by-step directions in the Assembly Level Repair Guide, publication #08590-90316, chapter 3. And yes, it consists of writing the displayed calibration data on a piece of paper.Current link for the manual:https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/9018-07842/service-manuals/9018-07842.pdfIn addition to renaming the publication part numbers, Keysight seems to rearrange their links often, so search for the publication number if this link goes bad.

author: mattltm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 09:05:04 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on July 14, 2024, 03:37:52 pmThat's perfect and much easier then I expected. It seems that I have to open it up to get the CALTGX constants off the tracking gen but that's no big issue.I only have one error left to resolve and that's a "LO UNLVL" warning on the display. The service manual says:LO UNLVL (U)(H)Indicates that the analyzer local oscillator distribution amplifier is notfunctioning properly. This message may appear on the 8592L, 8593E,8594E, 8595E, and 8596E with Options 009/010, Option 009, orOption 010.Can anyone give me some pointers on how to fix that?Thanks.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 05:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: mattltm on July 14, 2024, 09:05:04 pmAre you getting any output on your TG? Is it within spec?Is the unit otherwise operating ok (e.g., you're seeing spectra)?For the error you're seeing, the Service Manual goes on to say:QuoteSome references: There is LODA troubleshooting steps on page 419, and useful block diagrams on 387, 389, and 445. A description of LODA operation is on 370.If you need it, the option 010 tracking generator control board layout and schematics (CLIP) is here starting on page 292 (publication #5963-2951):https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/9018-05708/user-manuals/9018-05708.pdfThe cover page of the above document says 8590A series. It's actually for the 8590E series. This CLIP also represents specific serial numbers, but the differences are usually very minor.

author: mattltm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 08:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on July 15, 2024, 05:29:27 pmThanks for the info MarkL.I only see the LO UNLVL error if I set the frequency anywhere below 38MHz. Above that, the error disappears. As far as I can tell, it seems to be working fine. I tuned a VHF filter using a Rigol DSA815 and checked it on the 8594E which gave comparable (albeit better resolution) results.I'll take a look at the LODA troubleshooting steps and see where I end up!