Well, the kids are preparing to emigrate (suggestions??) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 05:32:40 pm
content: Kids just left and we spent yesterday talking about their red line and plans for leaving the USA.She, an MS in Structural Engineering, he an EE/patent attorney. Both PEs and both are now working on international licenses. The countries of interest are France, Switz, Germany, Ireland and Canada. Have already started annual rabies for the dog and they are not blowing smoke.Any suggestions are appreciated.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 05:43:28 pm
content: They should look at the Netherlands. Lots of innovation going on and everyone speaks English. Only downside is that housing is expensive in the western part of the country. However, around ASML / NXP (the Dutch silicon valley in the south-east) houses might be more affordable.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 05:57:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 23, 2025, 05:43:28 pmDon't count on the house prices being that much lower near Eindhoven. The Netherlands suffers from a shortage of housing which drives the prices through the roof.France is also looking for attracting engineers, but I have no idea on where in France is a good place to go to get a good job. Probably near Paris, but housing there is also very expensive, for what I have heard from acquaintances that have children going to university there. English is not spoken by many, despite it being taught in school. At least in the region I live. (Correze)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 06:08:18 pm
content: France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Switzerland are probably the worst choices if you can't speak the local language. Not so long ago I used to work with an Indian lady who had worked in France for a few years. The person at the office dealing with international visas could only speak French.Another example: a few years ago my wife and I got stopped by the French police for a routine inspectation along the highway. The police officer couldn't ask for a driver's license in English and we had no idea what he was going on about (despite his gestures which reminded me to John Travolta dancing in Pulp Fiction) so he just let us pass.Probably too much pride to ask a younger colleague to translate.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 06:17:06 pm
content: Responding to what is said above, if you move to a new country, you should plan on speaking the local language. Trying to get by with English only works if you are just visiting for a short period.Learning a new language is not impossible if you go to language school, study intensively, and get a lot of practice by immersion in the new country. It probably takes 2-3 years to become fluent, but much less to attain basic conversional skills.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 06:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 23, 2025, 06:17:06 pmGetting into a work environment also helps a lot in learning the language, and here in France it is highly appreciated when you at least make an effort to speak their language.In our village there is a German guy and he speaks fluent French. He is married to a French woman, so that helped him a lot, and he worked as a handy man for several years and picked up the language. Now he drives a taxi bringing mostly elderly people to medical appointments. Don't count on these elderly people speaking anything else than French.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 10:04:09 pm
content: Well, son in law is a bit of typical European, he speaks several languages including some Japanese. My daughter learned high school French, so she can relearn easily enough. And she earned her master's at Imperial College in London which may count for something.Thanks for thoughts so far. Netherlands sounds interesting and the comments about their first choices are along the lines of what I gathered by listening here.I am a bit depressed; but I think they are making rational decisions. I was happy they felt safe enough to reveal the depth of their anger to us; they can say nothing to his parents. They know they would be among those who would financially benefit for a while, but do not want to be among the silent enablers.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 10:05:51 pm
content: I'm not sure going to Europe for the next few years is that much of a rational choice, quite frankly.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 10:16:45 pm
content: Europe has its own set of growing problems. Nice for a holiday, but I wouldn't want to live there.What about New Zealand?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 10:39:01 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 23, 2025, 10:04:09 pmLong before my daughter went to university, I told her it would be bittersweet for me. Bitter because she was leaving, but sweet because I would know she was going forward to have fun. Communication has always been open and honest, fortunately. She is explicit that one of fears was having to come back home, but we chat at least once a week. Not so with her mother.I suspect that if I had tried to make her feel she shouldn't leave, it would have had the opposite effect.Be grateful that we are the firstand possibly the lastgeneration who can chat with every other member of the human race. Not long ago, the latency between sending a message and receiving a reply was 6 weeks.As for Europe being a poor destination, Zuckerberg has his fortress in Hawaii, and I believe others have chosen New Zealand. No, that is not a suggestion - but I fear war in Europe is coming. Timescale TBD.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 10:43:46 pm
content: I might be biased, but I think UK is quite good for engineering.If 'he' is doing an EE/patent attorney type position then there are plenty of London law firms hiring that kind of graduate, but expect long hours and average pay at first, with a risk of burnout. Cambridge area is also good, I work for a firm there, and there are plenty of others always hiring for EE's and SWE's.I think our construction industry isn't so good though (partially due to our bonkers planning legislation that lets NIMBYs endlessly delay anything of value) - so 'she' may not do so well here. Obviously, language is the easy one, Home Office is reasonably friendly to Americans (though still Kafkaesque in its processes) with Skilled Worker visas generally available to anyone with a job offer.We have a pretty stable government and last time I checked, we're not planning to invade Canada.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 10:48:30 pm
content: Quote from: johnboxall on March 23, 2025, 10:16:45 pmPlease, no. We don't need woke TDS baby yanks trying to cali-fornicate us. Maybe try China?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 11:01:34 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 23, 2025, 10:48:30 pmChina would be a good bet for the future; there's a reason both Trump and the Chinese refer to Trump as "the nation builder".But there are significant problems in a country where a standard proverb is "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down", and where people need to resort to referring to their leader as Pooh bear.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 11:04:30 pm
content: For "he", Munich is an obvious choice, the European Patent Office headquarters being there.For "she", no obvious choice. For quality of living and people having no problems speaking English, I'd suggest Denmark or the south of Sweden. Plenty of jobs there.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 11:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 23, 2025, 10:48:30 pmWhiskey Tango Foxtrot Or, to simplify it for you:I presume your engineering also includes data free opinions.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 11:36:16 pm
content: Take it easy @watchmaker.Just proves that NZ also has meth-heads.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 11:53:14 pm
content: it looks like another manifestation of sky news! get the EMF meter

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 03:52:00 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 23, 2025, 10:48:30 pmChina is much more selective with migrants, as opposed to Europe and it's de-facto open border policy.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 03:53:38 am
content: I think people are saying its not so rosy like 2010 when you can go there and make a fortune as a westerner and have people love you so long you make them cashIt seems to be related to Xi Jinping's 'reforms' of deng 'reforms' , which seems to have a lot of foreign people saying they face more scrutiny and less 'guest treatment'how do you say china first like merika first? it sounds like they have more of those people now. and they also have a fox/sky news thing going on apparently. And people say that a big part of it has to do with increased enforcement of existing laws, that were basically unenforced for decades (because they caused mega impractical problems that hurt tourism/business/social life).and the statistic that seems to back this up is the % decrease in foreigner workers living in china

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:44:03 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 23, 2025, 10:05:51 pmIs there any place on this world that is not in a same or worse situation? Every where you go there will be issues with supplies, housing and politics. Here in the Correze housing is not a big problem, but in the supermarkets it is noticeable that supplies are thinning. The political climate is also comparable to like for instance the Netherlands and I think Germany.Quote from: tggzzz on March 23, 2025, 10:39:01 pmI do share this fear, but on an even bigger scale. Unfortunately all that we, civilians, can do is wait and see. In the mean time just try to live our lives as good as possible in all aspects possible.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 09:48:33 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 23, 2025, 06:17:06 pmNot true. Decades ago I worked together with a software engineer from the UK who lived in Amsterdam. He complained he never could learn Dutch because everybody switches to English the second they got a hint he is English. The Netherlands always has been oriented towards the outside world and I think you can expect the same in scandinavian countries (north part of Europe). I have quite a few customers located in the Netherlands where English is the language spoken on the workfloor due to the wide variety of nationalities of people working there.Bottom line: if you move to a country where you don't have to learn the local language before getting anywhere, it is a big time & effort saver at a moment when time is scarse. Keep in mind that you'll need to deal with lots of paperwork when arriving to arrange visas, housing, jobs, etc. If your verbal and reading/writing skills are not up to it, you'll need to hire a local fixer for those things.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 10:51:47 am
content: Your kids should maybe factor in the UN sponsored World Happiness Report for 2025.This has Finland as the happiest population for the 8th year in a row, followed by Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Netherlands (which keeps coming up in the thread)...The UK comes in at 23rd while the US is 24th, so I guess it would technically count as an upgrade![Edit: I'm a bit surprised to see Germany only one higher at 22nd... and France down at 33rd].https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr72xep44kdohttps://www.timeout.com/news/world-happiness-report-the-full-list-of-countries-for-2025-032025https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/executive-summary/

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:12:56 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2025, 09:48:33 amNetherlands and Scandinavian countries are definitely very easy. But even when I lived in Moscow for three years I didn't learn much Russian for the same reason. I was the only foreigner (or at least the only non-fUSSR) in the company I worked in but everyone spoke English. Restaurants would always have an English menu if you asked, but usually someone spoke English anyway. And it's really not hard to learn the names of the usual meats and vegetables etc. You often don't even need words at all for just daily living. And if you need a serious conversation everyone has a phone with translation app.QuoteAlso not that hard. I found an American immigrant who had been in Russia 16 years (as at 2015) and had a business as a real-estate agent for English-speaking foreigners, for the same 1 month of rent fee that the local agents charged too.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:33:26 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 23, 2025, 06:08:18 pmI have different experience, I have visited few years ago an ABB site (work related) in Switzerland and basically none of the workers were native Swiss, they were all over the world, and the internal "work" language was actually english. I see the same tendency with other Swiss tech companies.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 12:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: dzseki on March 24, 2025, 11:33:26 amI spent a year in Neuchatel during a post grad watchmaking course and found Switzerland very easy to understand. And Neuchâtel is not known as an English speaking Canton. And I love how things are (were?) set up so everyone knew what was expected from them and what they could expect form others. None of this "It is all about me" crap.Wife came over for a month and travelled extensively (yea SwissPass) and found everyone very accommodating, I learned some pidgin French but was often asked to "Please, please! Speak English!"

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 03:37:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2025, 09:48:33 amMy experience of Scåne (South of Sweden) exactly.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 03:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2025, 09:48:33 amTrue, in the engineering team we speak English. It's possible to learn/use Dutch though everyday as a foreigner, you just have to open in Dutch, maybe ask people to speak slowly. And need about a year of practice before. I should've started learning earlier.Where to move, depends on want. If they like cars, Germany, and definitely not BeNeLux or Denmark.If they want livable big cities, Vienna is clear winner.The Dutch like to complain about property prices, because they are high compared to "yesterday", but actually on a global scale it's super affordable to have a house here.OP, go to this site, start clicking around to have a good feeling about money.https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/Also check out the Quality of Life index.But if they move abroad because of red lines, they probably are not prepared for any culture shock. So Canada maybe until next election there?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 04:13:38 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 23, 2025, 05:32:40 pmThey should get some common sense instead. If they want to leave the US due to current political situation (as it sounds), then they should just consume less mass media that plants weird ideas in their brain.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 04:14:23 pm
content: Why is nobody thinking of mobile phone language translators?Not good enough to even get started?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 04:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2025, 09:48:33 amI know the Netherlands is an unusual case, but not everyone is going to move there.I spent some time in Norway a while back, and while English was widely spoken in the workplace, I found it was not as widely spoken in the population at large. If you live in a country you are not going to spend 100% of your time at work. I could easily go into a small shop and nobody would speak English at all.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 05:32:37 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 24, 2025, 04:13:38 pmI tried to avoid the political, but this requires a response.Sorry friend. Apparently you do not know your post WWI Italian history. Complete control of the Legislature, defiance of courts (which in the US have no mechanism to enforce their rulings other than the executive (President)), using the Justice Dept in ways Nixon could not even dream of, full political control of the military ,people including citizens disappearing, removing databases and references he does not like from govt websites, forcing independent Universities to bend the knee, cowing of media and law firms, control over how voting will work on every level, ...The only saving grace at this point is that Mussolini made sure every small person got a slice of the pie for the first couple years. This has not happened and may be the source of a backlash.Many people took his campaign comments as hyperbole. I read them as Mein Kampf. He told us precisely what he was going to do and now, for example, the Hispanics in Miami (voted for him in droves), are in disbelief that THEY are being picked on. All their relatives on green cards and visas are being targeted in order to get his deportation numbers up. No one knows where these detainees go and agents refuse to ID themselves because they are "afraid of being doxxed" (quote in NY TIMES article on the LEGAL grad student who got to Canada one step ahead of ICE)."First they came for gypsies, and I remained silent......."I still hold into the value I was taught as a first grader 65 years ago, "we protect the weakest of us to ensure we all are safe."

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 05:37:30 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 24, 2025, 03:52:00 amwhat gave you that idea?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 06:18:22 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 24, 2025, 05:32:37 pmThere are too many other parallels for comfort....Neville Chamberlain returning from Munich in 1938, waving a piece of paper Hitler had signed and proclaiming "peace for our time". We know what happened one year later. Trump has repeatedly stated he thinks Putin wants peace.Hitler annexing Sudetenland while the Allies stood by and did nothing, Putin annexing Crimea - ditto.Trump's threats/promises to to annex Canada and/or Greenland.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 06:46:12 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 24, 2025, 05:32:37 pmSorry but it's clear TDS and brain rot caused by mass media. Making life changing decisions based on that is nothing but self-harm because of imaginary nonsense. What I can say is that their career prospects will be much worse in Europe even not considering disadvantage of being foreigners, not to say they'll need to deal with language barrier.EDIT: and if they have to pay back US student loans, good luck with that with European salaries.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:04:02 pm
content: Couldn't find a MOTIVATION, in all this personal and very public assessment.Couldn't find any statement maybe saying :'Renouncing their US citizenship, or something similarIs this some response to unappreciated recent election ? I'm not a mind-reader.Very PUBLIC though. Whatever personal familly business is taking place.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:14:00 pm
content: wraper: Please read my post here, for a chuckle. I had only reoapd some, and missed the OP wading into the Trump TDS.Somebody preserve the text.., for when those 'pure' Americans SWITCH BACK.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:16:42 pm
content: Hey,...maybe you, OP can quit this FORUM, too !

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:20:52 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 24, 2025, 06:46:12 pmMany Americans have documented their life journey in moving to European countries, either short term or long term. I don't think I have seen one of them say it was a big mistake and they are going home again. So talking about self-harm is unsubstantiated. Traveling and seeing other parts of the world is an enriching and rewarding experience.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:22:52 pm
content: In 2013, I had just retired with more time to read history (having ignored it during my formal education) and historians were starting to publish new histories of WW I in time for the centenary of Sarajevo. That led me to other books about Versailles and the history between the wars.Conclusion: history does rhyme. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme merde (pardon my non-diacritical French).

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:25:36 pm
content: Personally, as a British person, I think moving from America to Britain is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.Except that isn't really a good analogy. I totally understand why people want to leave the US right now, but the UK is a poor place to settle for a very different reason: it is in rapid decline and is well on the way to becoming a third world country.The problem isn't so much with the government as with the people. Over the past few decades our individual relationship with society has changed. Now, we are only interested in our rights, and give no thought to our responsibilities. We have lost our work ethic, and now people joining the workforce think they can pick and choose which bits of the job they are willing to do; they think they can pick and choose what hours they work, and they think that they have a right to work from home whenever they like.We have an epidemic of "mental health" issues because people confuse normal emotions with mental illness. We have an army of disabled people who think they have no moral obligation to work, even though many of them could find work in some form.Our roads are becoming ever more lawless. People drive through red lights. Cyclists, in particular, in large numbers completely ignore all the laws and rules of the road: riding without lights, riding through red lights, on pavements, the wrong way up one way streets.Talking of roads - they are TERRIBLE! What were once potholes have extended and joined together to give whole lengths of broken up asphalt. Cars are being damaged in their thousands, two-wheelers risk their lives.Our massive sense of entitlement means we have completely unrealistic expectations about the standard of living we think we are owed for the work we put in.The UK's productivity is terrible. We simply don't generate enough wealth to fix everything that is broken. The situation seems insurmountable unless every individual changes their attitudes and behaviours, and I cannot see that happening. We blame the government, but really it is our fault - the government is taxing us more than at any time since WW2, but still it cannot afford to fix the roads and get the National Health Service up off its knees. 23% of working age people are receiving state benefits.I can see no way out of this spiral for the UK. I have advised my nieces and nephew to emigrate, and I would vigorously discourage anyone from moving to the UK to settle.I have made many generalisations in this post, and although I believe them to be totally legitimate it is obviously the case that each individual is unique and not everyone is as I have described. There are always exceptions and variations between individuals. So remember: the generalisations are valid but not everyone is painted with the same brush.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on March 24, 2025, 05:37:30 pmThis picture from Copenhagen.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:32:47 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on March 24, 2025, 07:16:42 pmIt is not the OP who is creating decay on this forum. He asked a perfectly legit question of what is a good place to live for two people who want to emigrate. Others turned it in to political tinted issue.There are other reasons for someone to emigrate. Me and the misses moved to rural France to find tranquility. Hard to find in the Netherlands on a reasonable budget. Have looked at Sweden too, but seemed to cold for us.If Europe is a good location for engineers to move to, I don't know. Recent new does show that the Netherlands and France are looking into attracting engineers to come over and build a live over there.The remark that there is a disadvantage of being foreigners might not fly, depending on their names and skin color. Going on the regular news, yes there is still being discriminated on this, sorry to say. Maybe more in some countries than in others. The fact is that the countries in Europe are not really united like the states in North America, and probably never will be.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:47:36 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 24, 2025, 07:27:32 pmYou seem to forget that Islamic religion has been practiced in a lot of European countries before it became the EU. Wars have been fought over religion many times.With the expansion of the EU, internal open boarders have been established. Yes for European citizens there is free travel between the countries, and everybody is basically allowed to work everywhere. With this there has been a movement of religion across Europe. The Netherlands seems to be number 10 in the list of Islamic countries in Europe.https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-lm&channel=entpr&q=islamic+countries+in+europeSo don't be mistaken by what you see in that picture. Most of these people will be European citizens.The borders are not open for people from outside of Europe. You will have to apply for some visa to be able to stay in Europe, or request asylum of course.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:53:12 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 24, 2025, 07:27:32 pmdo they look particularly American? Some of them probably lived here for 40 years and the rest likely refugees which is not the same as immigrant

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 08:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on March 24, 2025, 07:47:36 pmIndeed. The US' immigration laws letting hoards of people in regardless education or reason to migrate, are a complete joke compared to what is standard in Europe. And getting citizenship by being born in a country is not happening in Europe.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 08:26:41 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 24, 2025, 07:20:52 pmDoes not sound like they want to travel. Of course there are valid reasons why people want to move. This is not one of them, and if there is no other reason to move, all I expect from this is disappointment.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 09:31:37 pm
content: Interesting how this devolved from suggestions about moving to a new country into a discussion of judging personal decision making. All data free.Seems like some here are angry about their personal situation and are projecting their issues onto others.I will ask the moderator to close this discussion since it has taken such a sad turn. THANKS to all who provided constructive advice and admonitions!

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 09:49:16 pm
content: How did they pick those countries? Have they considered UAE?In Canada, I expect them to find lower wages and higher cost of living, particularly if they like big cities. If they want a vacation home or if they want to be landlords, BC, Canada is not reasonable.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 09:49:30 pm
content: I'm afraid that it is the modern zeitgeist for people to make strong statements about subjects theycannot possiblyknow about.Overly self-confident, lack of humility. Call it what you will. The people making such comments are less likely to havevalidopinions on other topics.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 09:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 24, 2025, 09:49:16 pmOne of my general rules of thumb is not to go to any country where you need exit visas.Not only does that concept stink, but it can also be abused (e.g. keeping your passport until a dispute is resolved)

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 10:57:24 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 24, 2025, 04:13:38 pmExactly the point of my post. If you're leaving your own country because you think 50% of the population are evil then we don't want you because you're not going to be happy here either. It doesn't matter which 50%.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:11:36 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 24, 2025, 05:32:37 pmEvidence, please.It is people who do NOT have a visa or Green card who are being deported, and rightly so. People who have entered illegally.The fact that so many people are conflating legal and illegal immigration is just bizarre to me. It seems to be deliberate misdirection by one side.And it is especially annoying to people, like me, who follow the rules and get official permission to be in another country -- I've held an H-1B visa to work in the USA on two different occasions (2001 and 2019) and the equivalent Highly Qualified Specialist visa in Russia (2015) -- both are 3 years, sponsored by a specific employer, salary must be above a certain minimum, you can renew once then either leave or take permanent residency ("Green card" in USA).

author: osmax_br
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 24, 2025, 09:49:16 pmIf they want to go there they need to get a job BEFORE going thereIn UAE there are a lot of workers,engineers,doctors from India and Pakistan, they are ready to work for a smaller wage, so the competitiveness is already high , if they didn't directly say "we need someone from the USA" , you must expect that there is someone who is willing to take the job for a smaller salaryI think that unless you are offered a project manager or something similar you'd better go somewhere elseAnd also let's not forget the language barrier, arabic is extremely hard for foreigners, but you can say that English is widely understood, you can spend sometime there without learning the language, but if you are living there , learning the language is a mustThe high paying jobs are in dubai and abu-dabi ,if you want to stay there you should know that rent there in absurdly high , make sure to put that into your calculationsCultural difference is also a thing

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 24, 2025, 11:11:36 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/24/nyregion/columbia-student-ice-suit-yunseo-chung.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/09/nyregion/ice-arrests-palestinian-activist-columbia-protests.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/15/nyregion/columbia-student-kristi-noem-video.htmlhttps://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article302373304.htmlhttps://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/21/trump-foreign-prison-threats-civil-rights-groups-027162https://www.newsweek.com/cubans-arrested-ice-immigration-appointments-2048860https://news.google.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?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aenhttps://news.google.com/read/CBMimwFBVV95cUxNMU1sUDRmME5mc0pVeUVDMHhpT0h5VXNJU1o4Y2RnSFZYbmlVZ045Slc1UEQ3ZnlMSEN1Sl91VlpvSE1YSGxOSTJ5X3pOSzBxeHA5WmZua1A0UGZTbGFpal9taVdMRGpSM0pLazQ1U0ZJUjlxWHBXOVIydk1VdHlWYlFCRDg2QldlcnhNeHlsVGNOd3NfTDVxS2p5WQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aenhttps://news.google.com/read/CBMinAFBVV95cUxPR1dPRVhEM09fSGVMU3Bxdzl4SXZBYW4za3BxcE9XYVZOeXhBMmZiOHViY3ZGX1RuaXRaMlA2WHJPR3BFaFNDYmw2S1g2b3ZCVG9SUzNXOUZsLVQ2UnUyMFpLMV9DTW13M1ZrRjNDRWhGY1padGNMaHJ4TzJfd2NJbU1nNU5sSVZSOUxNckNhTGgtUjVfRmI4MEFKaXg?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3AenMany other examples if you care to take your head out.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 11:54:16 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on March 24, 2025, 07:22:52 pmThe first French/English translator I Googled "gentrified" the translation to the more familiar one, so I found another which called "merde" what it is!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:02:23 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 24, 2025, 11:54:16 pm“la même chose” is the actual French phrase (with diacritics).

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:57:34 am
content: [ Specified attachment is not available ]Quote from: pcprogrammer on March 24, 2025, 07:47:36 pmI wish you good luck.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 01:10:11 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 24, 2025, 11:29:50 pmMost of those are paywalled. I can't see much more than headlines.Visas (including Green card) can of course be revoked if you commit crimes. That's standard everywhere.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 01:36:26 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 25, 2025, 01:10:11 amWell I guess that explains it all. You cannot afford to pay to find the truth. I will explain those references to you.In fact , none of those reports cited ANYONE who committed a crime. In the USA, all people on US soil are protected under the Constitution which includes freedom of speech and due process. Everyone cited (including the Hispanic family members) are here on either green cards, visas or protected status.Maybe you should pay more attention to the problems in your own country rather than wasting your impressive intellect on what is going on the USA.FWIW, I responded to your posts not for your benefit, but to provide insights for those readers who are not fully aware and who do not try to hide from reality.I lived long enough to know it is a waste of time to discuss things of importance with those who are intellectually unwilling or unable to explore the facts for themselves.Or maybe I am being too harsh and you are psychologically unable. In which case I apologize for shaking your tenuous hold on reality. I try very hard to avoid hurting people; after living the life I have, I strive to be gentle and kind. But sometimes I am not successful. So it goes.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 01:50:43 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 25, 2025, 01:36:26 amHas some people worried, as you've noted.Perhaps they should consider countries where the most contentious discussions are about heat pumps! Rather than the partisan politics on display here.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 01:52:57 am
content: Quote from: Messtechniker on March 24, 2025, 04:14:23 pmI can tell you that they were amost entirely useless in Korea when trying to communicate in person. The feature where you can take a picture of some text and have it "translate" it and then taking some time to figure out what it really meant, well that sort of worked.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:14:04 am
content: watchmaker: You might try asking various diplomatic offices that represent countries, to help identify good job environments.Thinking longer term might benefit the ones moving / seeking work. How about their projected new employer: asking what got the idea of relocating ?"...well sir, quite frankly, we don't give a shit about YOUR little country, (fleeing the US, due to Hitler". Flattering, just flattering.Interviewer: "Where did you hear about us ?"New Hire: "Wha...? I don't know. Daddy said try here."Interviewer: "So, then, how much do you know about this country, then, (Upper Slobovia)"?Prospect: "..? Huh ? (Don't know or care.)"Flattering. Absolutely flattering.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:22:26 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 25, 2025, 01:36:26 amThere are hundreds of countries in this world, and thousands of newspapers. I can't afford to subscribe to them all on the off-chance someone sends me a link to them.QuoteMany of those headlines talk of then being protesters. There is legal protest, but there is also criminal protesting. e.g. trespass, vandalism, detaining or obstructing citizens going about their business.It appears that they are, in fact, going through that due process. Part of which is evaluating whether they are a flight risk.If you aren't prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to not only the current elected administration, but also to the non-political police and judiciary then, yeah, you certainly do have some kind of big problem.QuoteLooking at today's headlines, the biggest problems that don't involve the USA are an earthquake that appears to not have damaged anything, bicycle lanes, a truck crash, one of our citizens apparently being on thin ice in his new Formula 1 team, and a yacht losing its rigging.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:29:03 am
content: Quote from: Messtechniker on March 24, 2025, 04:14:23 pmI talked about them inhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/well-the-kids-are-preparing-to-emigrate-(suggestions)/msg5858633/#msg5858633They are fine, if you have a phone, charge in your battery, mobile signal, and a local SIM card with credit on it.Sometimes one of more of those conditions don't exist, especially when you first arrive in a strange country. Once you're established then yeah fine.They do slow interactions down annoyingly, so you want to be able to cope in common situations without one, but if you're struggling to get a fine point across, or to understand one, then absolutely it's a life-saver.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:29:34 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 25, 2025, 01:36:26 amThe person in the very first one was indeed arrested for a crime. Perhaps not one you consider serious, but there was an arrest and that is what apparently triggered what came next.All of these cases have complex stories and I don't get the impression that news coverage of them--from any angle--is really accurate or complete.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:29:48 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 25, 2025, 01:10:11 amYou don't need to commit any crimes to be thrown out. People have no right to be in foreign country, being let in is a courtesy. Being found unwelcome for whatever reason is more than enough to be denied entry/deported from basically any country, including EU countries which was glaringly demonstraded in the last few years. Crying foul because some foreigner that is openly hostile towards US is removed from the country makes no sense.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:51:26 am
content: Plus the ILLEGAL ENTRY across a bo rder here, is...illegal. yeah, I got this.OP, your initial post dishonestly pretends to be an innocent 'moving', but then you insert intrigue, by brief mention:'RED LINE', (hint hint)What is a reader to think ?A savvy employer might pick up on your dishonest presentation.Especially as you LIE to forum members about this being a purely job change thing...no politics. What are you going to do, when that NEW employer discovers EEVBLOG forum ?No input here, from the principals involved, maybe they don't even consent, to this gaming being done (here). How are you going to, yawn, cover this up, with the new Employer ?

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:55:24 am
content: Quote from: wraper on March 25, 2025, 02:29:48 amAh yes, I found it on AP and Reuters. Criminal trespass ("sit in") at Columbia university.That's a maximum of six month's jail time in many states, and maybe a year if there is resisting arrest.Boom.Conviction for anything that can result in jail time (whether awarded in that particular case or not) would very likely be grounds for revoking a visa. Something with over 30 days, and especially 6 months or a year, seems like you'd be very very lucky to stay. It would need to look like a one-off with remorse repentance etc (if even then), not someone defiant and likely to re-offend.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:00:41 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 25, 2025, 02:29:34 amAgreed. Data was requested and data was provided. The trend is clear. I cannot worry about someone who asks for data and then sez they are not willing to access it.And the one case you bring up, is the case where the grad student with valid visa is being held without access to an attorney. He is married to an American and the "crime" was that he was on campus when he made his statements (protected speech). For those unfamiliar, he was speaking out about the carnage among Palestinians as a result of Israeli tactics.The Miami Hispanics targeted have committed NO crimes and are here under a protected status program.The Canadian woman detained for 9 days without charge (AND RELEASED) was detained when she went to renew her work visa as an actress.It is amazing how many non Americans do not comprehend that ANYONE who is in the USA is protected by the Constitution. The whole reason we developed Guantanamo prison was to get detainees off US soil so they were not even subject to Habeus Corpus. Chief Justice Rehnquist even covered this scenario in his book.It is the reason everyone in the USA is working so hard to keep others from crossing the border without permission. Once they are here, they are entitled toallthe protections of due process. Ignoring their rights, however, is to go down a path previously travelled that did not end well.What happens in other countries is not relevant.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:22:56 am
content: OP, any chance that you might, please give an answer, QUESTION WAS: Concerning your dishonest presentations of yourself, in relation to your 'kids' (assu.ung they are adults now).?I can repeat the question. What kind of cover will keep a new EMPLOYER from reading about some 'REDLINE', and thinking he isn't getting the complete picture.Heck, a new EMPLOYER, of your 'kids' might NOT CARE !

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:27:36 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 25, 2025, 03:00:41 amThis is quite evidently untrue. The new administration appears to be trying to stop it, the previous one enabled it and obstructed efforts to stop it, going so far as to sell off construction materials for the border wall between the recent election and inauguration.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:29:03 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 25, 2025, 03:00:41 amNope, wrong case. I was referring to Yunseo Chung. As for Mahmoud Khalil, he is subject to removal under a different process, one not commonly used but also not subject to extensive judicial review.QuoteAnd many Americans don't understand exactly how the Constitution protects people and what the limitations are on those protections. Unfortunately some people have been misled into overestimating what those protections are and how they might apply to people when it comes to entry into the US or to summary removal procedures. In many cases someone might have made it into US territory and not even be entitled to see an immigration judge before being detained and deported. This is nothing new, it has been going on for decades.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:42:24 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 25, 2025, 03:29:03 amI believe you are referring to this: (Section bolded for emphasis) It is not cut and dried. That is the problem with this whole issue. The USA used to rely on precedent and norms. All that has been thrown into the air. Some celebrate that, I do not. I value stare decisis.Examples of summary removal procedures:Expedited removal: As mentioned above, this applies to certain non-citizens who arrive at a port of entry or enter without inspection.Reinstatement of removal: This applies to non-citizens who return to the United States without authorization after having been removed under a prior order.Important Considerations:While summary removal can be a quick and efficient process, it also raises concerns about due process and the rights of individuals.Individuals subject to summary removal should seek legal counsel to understand their rights and options.My understanding is that most of summary removals occur as "Reinstatement of Removal". In other words, thrown out once via judicial review and then caught re-entering.

author: cunningfellow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:55:36 am
content: Surely in [Current Year] no one is posting links to NYT and expecting it to be taken any more seriously than quoting Reddit

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:10:08 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on March 25, 2025, 03:42:24 amYou may not fully understand the term, its specificity or limitations. Do you oppose the reconstruction amendments? To understand any policy or "norm" you have to understand the basis for it to know if it will apply in the future or not. A DOJ policy as per one administration is not in any way binding on the next and it certainly isn't a "constitutional right". This was all entirely forseeable IMO, and I've repeatedly advised permanent residents that I know to apply for citizenship as soon as eligible and STFU/drive the speed limit/etc in the meantime. But as I said, some were misled into thinking they had rights when in fact they really didn't. I'm guessing this attitude will spread out to other questionable immigration practices such as U-visas.QuoteBoth occur in numbers in the hundreds of thousands annually and have been for some time. The previous administration had already ramped up deportations, especially expedited ones, in recent times. This was probably because they realized that it was an electorally losing position not to.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:16:01 am
content: I don't know if OP can perceive the following:Various responders, now, aren't necessarily even addressing OP, but rather just for the rest of us to read and learn.That's a bad attitude, but some seek to avoid actual, civil, dialog.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:24:38 am
content: Quote from: RJSV on March 25, 2025, 04:16:01 amThat's what happens when threads get politically derailed. Especially by those who want to shut down discussions among those who disagree with their politics.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:38:16 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 25, 2025, 02:55:24 amThat would certainly be frowned upon in the US at present.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:44:04 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 25, 2025, 02:22:26 amI hear there are calls for judges to be impeached. Nasty people apparently. Does that indicate a person with a problem?

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 05:07:45 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 25, 2025, 04:44:04 amSome individual judges might warrant it. There are a lot of judges.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:59:39 am
content: Quote from: zapta on March 25, 2025, 12:57:34 amI don't know where you are from, but all that your picture shows is a boat full of people desperately fleeing from somewhere, trying to get on land somewhere (or being picked up by a bigger ship) in the hope to get asylum.Does not prove that the European borders are open for everyone.These people end up in camps that do not improve their lives. Some may get status and are allowed into Europe, but a lot will just be send back to where they came from.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 07:19:23 am
content: @RJSV, for someone who is begging for additional rules to limit political discussions, you are showing hypocritical behavior by participating in this thread trying to stir the pot to some extend. (The thread about this is in the private supporter section, so being a supporter or having 1000 posts or more is needed to see it)Quote from: watchmaker on March 23, 2025, 05:32:40 pmIt might be different in the eyes of others, but to me the red line mentioned does not have a political bearing. To me it is just an indication to the path taken and to be taken in their lives. In Dutch it is along the lines of the "red thread" in a story.https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rode_draadIt is sad to see that more and more hatred is seeping in on the forum and simple questions are turned into political shit throwing.To many I would like to say, please read up on what you are planning to write about, when you have no idea about what is actually right, and only write when you have something constructive to bring to the table. Yes I could have left my post out, but I hope it opens some eyes and make them realize what consequences their actions might have.