Another "I want to buy a soldering station" thread - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 08:10:23 am
content: This is not one of those low budget 'cheap as possible / bang for buck' queries. I'm a serious hobbyist, so I want to spend good money on a quality tool - I plan to use this every day for the next 30+ years.I'm looking for a high end temperature controllable station, preferably Weller (I've used them since forever, and they've never let me down)... Looks like I'll be spending a ballpark figure of around £300.So, I've decided to bite the proverbial bullet, and buy myself a shiny new Weller soldering station (yes, I'm fixed on Weller, after 30 years of continuous reliability, it's going to be near impossible to push me away from this trusted brand).My Weller soldering station is about 30 years old now, and is temperature rated by tip replacement. I use mostly number 7 tips, occasionally 8/9 for those hard to move chassis soldered parts. Due to this I'm unaware of the actual temperature I'm running at for the various jobs at hand (maybe someone can shed some light on this point too).I'll be using Farnell as the supplier, But it's a damn minefield out there... What is best for a serious hobbyist like myself, what specs should I be looking at? The main differences seem to be the shape of the base, and the wattage, but what's the difference between a 80W and a 200W station that outputs the same max temp... economy?Here's my options...http://uk.farnell.com/w/c/tools-production-supplies/soldering-stations-accessories/soldering-stations/soldering-stations?brand=weller&range=exc-direct-ship

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 09:51:02 am
content: Regarding power rating, the max temp is pretty much there to prevent the tip from disintegrating. The wattage might* give an indication of how fast it can reach and/or rebound to working temp.I have an 8W battery powered iron that will reach 950F, but as you might be able to imagine, it can't solder anything much bigger than a 30AWG wire or an IC leg. It can only get as hot as it does because the tip is tiny. And it has to start out much hotter than the melting point of solder in order to finish the joint, because the power can't sustain that temp after contact. A 50W station can make a much bigger joint at only 350C. And a 120W station might be able to make an even larger joint at only 300C.*I say "might" because in some cases you can have a 200W station but it will only draw 80W for a given tip/tool and 200W with another tool and/or combination of tools powered at the same time. BTW, I don't know of any regular soldering iron tip that uses 200W, but maybe JBC has something like that. Desoldering tools and tweezers, yeah. Or rework spatula tips.Some JBC stations with have user selectable power settings, even though they are temp controlled. I read someone's observation that attested to the reason for this. At the max power setting, for instance, a big chisel tip might reach 350C in 4-5 seconds. But if stuck in a glass of water and removed, it might overshoot by 60C on the rebound. I don't know if they have managed to PID this problem away. Or perhaps this response is part of the PID? But on the lowest setting it will only overshoot by maybe 5 degrees. I don't recall the model or where I read this, but it was something in the last 24 hours.So you might read a JBC will reach 750F in 2 seconds. Which is technically true, because with the smallest tip at the highest setting, it is true. And you might read that it will sustain temp within 2C. And that might be true at the lowest power setting. So maybe there is a sweet spot. If you look at most popular "professional" irons for rework/repair and assembly, they almost all fall in the 50W-100W range.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 09:52:11 am
content: I think it depends on the type of work you are doing.For general and through hole work the Wellers are perfect.For surface mount work, I prefer Metcal/OKI. The lowest range SP900 is ideal.I have just scored a Metcal PS200Farnell is OK. You could try their other outletCPC.farnel.comorrapidonline.comHowever, if you have your heart set on Weller, go ahead.

author: jolshefsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 11:52:43 am
content: I had a Weller like that for a long time. When it started failing, I started shopping. I found that Weller quality had dropped, and the market outpaced the company. I ended up going with aPace WJS-100with theInstant Set-back Cubbywhich drops the tip temperature to ~180C after 30 seconds. The 120-watt power means that from the time I pull the iron from the cubby to the work, it's right at 350C. One of their marketing gimmicks is that the replacement tips (which have the integrated heater) are only US$12.I do have a couple quibbles: the cord isn't as flexible as the Weller, although it's probably as flexible as it can be and still deliver that kind of power. Also, the indicator light blinks yellow (seemingly at a fixed rate and pulse-width) when the tip is heating. I'd rather it turn yellow whenever the heater is live so when I'm trying to dump a lot of heat, I can tell if the thermal resistance is low or if I'm not actually making good contact.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 01:50:44 pm
content: I've heard some talk about Ersa stations, I know they are lower budget irons, but are they really as good as the hype?I do both TH and SMD soldering, and some heavier stuff (chassis mounted components), so looking for a good all-rounder.

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 04:43:19 pm
content: I am using from last December a ERSA i-CON 2V:https://www.ersa-shop.de/index.php?cat=c874_04-i-CON-2-VC-04-i-con-2-vc.htmlNothing to complain so far about it's power & stuff.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:54:55 pm
content: Does this help

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:43:10 pm
content: I have heard positive results for the Weller WD1000M which has a vast arrangement of bits and tweezers. Might be worth reading the following document on RS website and work out what you feel meets your needs. For me I use a mixture at work so don't really have a preference.http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/15b9/0900766b815b9d56.pdf

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 09:33:33 pm
content: I was going to buy a Weller myself but the forum here talked me into a Hako 951 and it works great.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 10:10:37 pm
content: If you're dead set on Weller, theWD1000Tis decent (what I use; includes the setback stand). Tips aren't *too* bad cost wise (there's been some QC issues with tips made in Bosnia), and it does SMT well as well with the right tip.That said however, I'd recommend checking out the Ersa i-Con series or a HakkoFX951(batterfly.com). Both are fully featured, tips are long lasting & inexpensive, and comfortable to use for extended periods of time. And at ~280EUR, the Hakko is a real value IMHO (limited to 2 different irons only IIRC).

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 11:43:19 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on June 29, 2017, 10:10:37 pmAnd that 280€ is, as always, plus VAT (and postage)./stefan

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 12:18:54 pm
content: Despite my post being hell bent on Weller, I'm starting to sway towards the Metcal. I really like the short tip pencil-style irons too.So how do you change the temperature on a Metcal; say if I wanted to increase considerably for chassis soldered components?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 12:47:50 pm
content: QuoteYou change the tip 600/700/800 ranges I believeQuoteThe advantage of the 'smart heat' is that you do NOT need to change the temperature to account for large thermal mass.The way the 'smart heat' technology works is that the heat is generated in the material layer change of the tip.The temperature is regulated by ferromagnetic properties, when the tip demagnetises the heating stops - so it self regulates.When you touch the tip to some bug heat sink - the tip temp drops and the iron just keeps pumping heat in.Most of the time it actually puts more heat into things than standard soldering irons.I have used them at a couple of companies now and they are just in a different league compared to heating element irons.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 11:46:44 pm
content: Quote from: LektroiD on June 30, 2017, 12:18:54 pmTo add to what MosherIV said, there are 6, 7 and 8 series tips. The 6 series heats to about 650F, the 7 series to about 750F and the 8 series to about 850F. I use 6 series tips from .7 to 3.2 mm and I keep 1 8 series for the little lead free soldering that I do. I have an old Metcal MX-500 with RM3E wand and Talon Tweezers. I also have a Hakko FX-951 with an assortment of tips. I like both and use both but I use the Metcal more. The wand has a heftier feel without being heavy, if that makes sense. If you plan on years of soldering, go Metcal.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 02:01:11 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 30, 2017, 11:46:44 pmSo you've finally chosen a preference... damn traitor.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 08:25:09 am
content: Looking at the Metcal MX-500, seems they are all described as "rework stations", it's not so much rework I'd be using it for, just straight soldering...Also how would the MX-500 compare to the lower end PS-900 or the older SP-200?

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 09:24:42 am
content: To replace my Pace MBT250 I bought a Metcal MFR-1351. The biggest mistake I made. I also have a great Weller WS-81 I mostly use for smd stuff.The power of the Metcal is bizarre, there is nothing it can not solder. But the durability sucks major and the companies service even more. Maybe the other line is better, I bought the MFR because it should be the best choise in durability and the desoldergun does not need shop-airI use it professional. Now after 2 years I need to replace the soldering iron for the 2nd time. The first time warranty. Now a serious problem, I burned myself on the wire coming out the iron. I was over 100C. Metcal responded that it was a known problem solved for the newer irons but mine was over 1 year old so I must buy a new one. Also had to replace the desoldergun within a year (warranty) The desolder tips hold only around 6 months. The hoof soldertip lasted just over a year (looks as new but the inductor opened)The station has two outputs but you can only power 1 unit at a time.I have 2 PSU' s and I had to replace both pump membranes after 1,5 years. Someone on a Dutch forum warned me because he also had big problems but I did not listen.I contacted Pace for advise to refurbish my Pace (because I did not know which parts I needed) or replace it and they where very cooperative, so I bought a new SX-100 to replace my crusty over 20 years old SX-70. Bought a tipkit because my SX70 only worked with microtips. I replaced the solder iron 3 years ago so that was almost new. Only the heater was dead but I wanted a fresh one. (still used it every now and then on my second bench) My tweezers are probably >15 years old but I bought them 4 years ago as NOS. I did this about a month ago and the SX-100 works really greatSo never again Metcal for me.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 09:40:52 am
content: I have just received my SP200 and it does what it says on the tin. It solders so much faster than my old WellerThe MX500 is a multi tool system, you can have 2 irons or 1 iron and tweezer iron. It is up to you wheter you need that.I have used both the sp900 and ps200. I cannot tell the difference between them.The sp900 is older and the number of tips is starting to be limited.The ps200 is the current base model and is well supported.The mx500 is also current and has more tips available.At both the companies I worked at, they never had a tip wear out on them (R & d department).The currnet company I work at keep a stock of bits for the production workers, so I guess they do wear out.Yes, I have read about problems but I have never had or seen it myself.One place did have to replace the iron/handle but everything was fine after that.The range of tips is bewilderingDo not worry about the specialty tips for smt, there are loads for taking smt chips off - they work but total waste of money for hobbiests, they tend to use hot air iron.Have a look at the tios you like on your Weller and then look for something similarHope this helps.

author: bsudbrink
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 12:17:06 am
content: You'll love the SX-100. Both the new tip design and the disposable traps.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:50:41 pm
content: Well, after much deliberation, I've settled on the Metcal PS-900. Can anyone recommend a couple of good tips for this iron? One hot chassis tip, one fine SMD, and one general purpose / TH... I'll add them to the cart when I make the order.The three types of tips are as follows:F = FR4 / Fiber Glass, for most standard applicationsT = Temperature SensitiveC = Ceramic for high thermal demand applicationsWhich ones should I use for SMD? Through Hole? and Chassis work?Many thanks for everyone's advice so far, I thought I'd be a Weller boy for eternity, it appears I was wrong...

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:11:45 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 01, 2017, 02:01:11 amHere's the thing. I am working on a proof of concept on swapping optical switches on a sensor board. Since it is company equipment that is RoHS compliant, I have an 8 series tip for the Metcal and am using lead free solder. I am also working on putting my octopus circuit tester and the $20 chinese curve tracer kit into a single project box and am using the Hakko for all the soldering. Don't worry, Dave, I am not getting rid of my Hakko. Unless, of course, another MX-500 with RM3E and stand fell into my arms for free, I might consider it.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 06:11:23 pm
content: The MX-500 is sometimes called a rework station not because that is the only thing it is good for, but because it can do that. In other words, youcanget a hot tweezer or desoldering gun for use with the MX-500 system, which is not the case for most soldering stations. You can also get a wide array of "rework" tips for the soldering pencil/iron. Examples include hoof and blade tips for drag soldering of fine pitched quad flat pack ICs, "tunnel" catridges for mass-sodlering/desoldering of all DIP/SOIC/SSOP pins, slot cartridges for removing SMT passives, etc. Of course you can also get a wide variety of tip geometries and temperatures specifically for soldering.Since trying my Metcal for the first time, I've hardly touched another soldering iron except to move it out of the way to clear up desk space. The MX-DS1 desodlering gun is also in a class by itself, not only for the smartheat tip, but also for the exceptional vacuum system and ease of maintenance/cleaning.