Which soldering temperature would you  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: riccardo.pittini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 01:07:48 pm
content: Hi,I'm working on the development of a soldering iron. The idea is to have 3 preset temperatures (like: low mid high) and a custom one (from 150-450C).The soldering iron is mostly for small components (e.g. SMDs) with power of about 40W (so not ideal for 1cubic meter of copper...).Which values do you suggest for the preset ones?My thought would be:250 - 350 - 450What are your suggestions? (everyone has three votes)Thanks for the help!!!!!!!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 01:14:47 pm
content: Look at the preset temperatures that metcal uses for its tips.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 01:30:06 pm
content: 700F has always been the standard fixed tip temp for general purpose through hole soldering.600F for finer smaller SMD and sensitive stuff.800F for beefy stuff.These are your standard old school Weller or metcal tip temps.But of course these "standard" temps are entirely dependent upon the thermal capacity and recovery time of your top and element system. And you can't just go by the wattage.So anyone who claims one temp is best without measured performance data on the tip and system being used is talking out their bum.Yes, old school F here.IMO 250C is too low for all but the best capacity irons like JBC or Metcal et.al.For SMD I'd think 550F, 600F, 650F is likely to be the sweet spot.

author: riccardo.pittini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 01:37:37 pm
content: Thanks for the hints. It is more on a user point of view.The 250C idea was for small components not lead free.Everything is part of a custom made soldering iron, that i might release in open-HW.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 01:51:10 pm
content: Part of the magic is in the tip design. Are you going to use an of the shelf tip system or do your own?Edit: I strongly suggest adopting a JBC tip and handle and focusingallyour efforts on an affordable base unit that will perform as good as the original

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 03:08:11 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on September 18, 2014, 01:51:10 pmAny estimation how much this will cost the overall cost?There is a similar project with Metcal in another thread.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 03:30:13 pm
content: if you need 450C then it means you are using wrong tool for the jobI guess its ok if you need that 450 once a week or somethingbut couple of times a day would go a lot smoother with something with adequate thermal capacity. Oki, ~1KW heat gun, ~couple KW preheater etc.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 08:03:56 pm
content: Other than special circumstances such as soldering to flexi pcbs, I don't think there's any need for anything other than 325C.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 08:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: riccardo.pittini on September 18, 2014, 01:07:48 pmYou don't need 3 temperatures settings. Only one setting works best: 330 deg C for both lead free and leaded. The mistake many people make is cranking the temperature up on a tip which is too small for the job. This just results in burning up the flux too quick and making a bad solder joint. In other words: get a wide variety of tips and have an iron which allows to change them quickly. BTW: 40W is on the low side. Better double that.

author: riccardo.pittini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 08:49:26 pm
content: I know 330 it is the perfect temperature, it is kind of magic number.It is a high precision (fine tips) soldering iron for smd.. so 40W is more than enough (you can easily solder smds like 0805 1206 etc with 10W at 330C).It is not designed for bigger staff

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 09:19:49 pm
content: You'll need some power to solder the heatsink pad of a QFN (through the thermal vias) or the tab of a bigger transistor or diode. A soldering station which can't do that is pretty usless. Besides that I use a really big tip and solder 4 pins of a QFN or TQFP at once. Components attached to ground planes (even with thermal reliefs) can suck up a lot of heat too. IOW there is a good reason most irons are 80W: you need it!

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 10:41:32 pm
content: By default (Weller stylusWSP80+LT Ktip +SnPbsolder) the default temperature I use is 314°C (pi*100: very easy to remember).Some much higher for Pb free solder (from 330 to 340 °C)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 10:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 18, 2014, 08:36:12 pm+1This is IMO the main disadvantage of the common Wellers and Hakkos.I switched a year ago to a solder iron with quick tip change (MX500) and was surprised how often I change tips and how useful it is.It should be an important factor when evaluating solder stations.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 12:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: riccardo.pittini on September 18, 2014, 08:49:26 pmit is for your traditional irons. But get a JBC, Metcal or one of the newer induction heating irons and you'll find that it's actually too high for ordinary stuff.I leave my JBC on 280C for regular work now, whereas I had to use that magic 320-330 figure on my Hakko's to get a similar performance.Lower temp is always preferred if your iron and tip is capable of getting the job done.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 12:44:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2014, 12:21:26 pm+1 and the reason for my reply#4

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 12:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2014, 12:21:26 pmLead free or leaded?

author: riccardo.pittini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 01:24:23 pm
content: I mostly use 330C for anything reasonably small (both lead and lead-free) but not too small or delicate (then lower temp.).It is also a matter of speed... 330C for me has often been a good trade-off also for fast solderingAnyhow, I am not using beefy irons for small staff. I use tiny ones (e.g. ersa/weller micro ones), perfect for small cramped electronics where a normal size tip would touch too many components at a time

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 01:40:59 pm
content: JBC does not mean beefy Irons, it means exceptional thermal response. There are plenty of JBC micro tips available. IMO if you want to get any interest in you project, duplicate the JBC base unit performance and connectors for the irons. That could include multiple handle ranges and double outputs for tweezers. Do that and you have my interest and probably many others on the forum.

author: riccardo.pittini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 02:16:58 pm
content: I explain better what I am doing:)Me and a colleague in our spare time we developed a soldering iron (not soldering station) that could perform as JBC/weller soldering stations (several hundreds $) but is shrimped down to a soldering stylus.We simply wanted a cheap, with very high quality tips soldering iron for small components.I just wanted to see what people thinks about their preferred soldering temperatures. E.g. maybe 260C - 330C - 400C.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 02:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2014, 12:21:26 pmFor leaded or lead-free? When I had my IPC training, the trainer recommended 320 has a good all round temperature to ensure good wetting throughout the joint.He demonstrated under microscope the difficulties using some of the advanced rework techniques at lower temperatures which are not necessarily noticeable by eye. All lead-free soldering though.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 02:56:05 pm
content: What would be good is an iron of about 250 watt yes I mean 250 watt and hot swap-able tips plenty of power to heat tips in seconds and a whole range of tip sizes instantly available in a magazine.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 03:37:46 am
content: at the moment, the poll has a very interesting gaussian distribution.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 06:32:34 am
content: Quote from: Fsck on September 20, 2014, 03:37:46 amNah, it's just giving us the middle fingerI'm only one up high the mean, meaning I selected 325, 350 and 375 so I guess I helped a bit to get it better distributed

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 02:14:51 pm
content: lies, damn lies and statisticswould be better if you asked for temp and model of soldering iron at the same time, would show people with shitty equipment on the upper end of the scale

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2014, 11:44:19 pm
content: 315 (i.e. 600F).

author: Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 06:01:43 am
content: Although designed for SMD, consider you might solder wires connectors or components on large ground planes too.I think the optimal solder temperature depends on the type of solder (leaded unleaded, new or old for rework/repairs) , the thermal capacity of the tip, and the speed on which the system reacts to temperature change of the tip.I couldn't live without an adjustable temperature. Since a few years I have been using some faster soldering stations. Though the tips are smaller and the wattage is the same, I can now solder faster and at a quite lower temperature.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 12:22:42 pm
content: Theres already Jbc compatible clone being sold for years taobao for JND.Anyway DIY soldering controller is plenty check out dangerousprototype forum there's a very capable one that supports different type of iron handles.Why not DIY an infrared soldering system it will be more exciting than a overly glorified firestick? But I must admit JBC is the most fatigue free iron I could use on and on all day long due to the compact and light handle.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 08:19:32 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on September 20, 2014, 02:14:51 pmsome of us are just lazy/cheap and basically all of my tips are metcal 700 series so it's what I use for smd.

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 03:53:50 pm
content: SMD? I find 600 is a nice place to hang, but you have to be skilled and fast. Fast & quick heat can be better on thin material if done properly. Slow 400 degree heat I find allows the board to soak up way to much heat .Through hole? 685 for avg stuff. 625 for the really small stuff 1/8 watts or so.I use a Weller WRS3000 and all the parts.

author: mike105105
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2014, 11:19:17 pm
content: I usually keep my iron set around 650F-670F with a 1/16" screwdriver style tip. I use it mainly on 0402 and similar small ICs, but also QFP devices and connectors. It allows me to quickly heat and flow and move on. Sometimes for delicate materials I move down to 550F and for some large connectors or shields 770F.Mike