PCB software for homebrew - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 11:39:04 am
content: Help pleaseNot sure if this is the right page for this if not please re-direct me .Looking for a free ware PCB program to get started in homebrewing PCB circuits, or sending out for production. Theres a ton of programs out there and its a bit daunting.Anyone please give me suggestionsMany Thanks

author: jazper
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 12:24:20 pm
content: Kicad

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 12:51:25 pm
content: www.circuitmaker.comwww.easyeda.com

author: JohnPen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 04:07:01 pm
content: Dip Trace Freeware if you are going to have less than 300 pins and only want to use 2 layer PCBs. I found it very easy to use compared with several other packages including Kicad and have had several small designs manufactured by Elecrow with no problems.JohnEdit: In EEVBLOG under the heading 'General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions' for more information on the various packages.

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 05:20:10 pm
content: Right , thanks for the suggestions i will look at all options .I,m not looking for a super duper program just a down to earth one thats free that gets the job done without spending several years to learn.Ive been getting to grips with Dip trace this past few days and it seems friendly , its just that i could not find some items in the transistor menu and it puzzled me , like BFY50, 2N3819, AF117 OA90 etc etc stuff from the ark, the older stuff from the 60s 70s and 80s, do i get the impression these pcb design software,s only cater for the more common up to date components or can i import into a user file from somewhere, or is it a question of importing my own dimensions onto the pcb design ?? Its early days yet and am trying to get a feel for the PCB design landscape out there . I would like to etch my own boards either single or double sided . I,m at the very early learning stage here with PCB design!I will be checking out your suggestions .Many thanks.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 01:25:11 pm
content: Quote from: cleanworkbench on January 07, 2019, 05:20:10 pmThe thing is with most professional PCB software that they come with almost no components built in\$^1\$. The reason for this is that there are just too many out there in too many different footprints. Hence, most engineers will design their own footprints from scratch.I would suggest looking up tutorials of your specific bit of software on how to create schematic symbols (the representation of the component in a schematic) and footprint files (the physical component footprint).\$^1\$ This is not entirely correct, as a lot of software now provides extensive libraries (Altium Vault etc), but these tend to cost money to use, and even then many designers prefer to make their own part, because this allows you to tweak the footprint to your application - for example, if you are only going to hand-solder a few boards, you might want to increase the size of your pads so you can more easily get to them.

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 10:40:05 am
content: Thanks for the repliesI see your point about component libraries, probably going to have to consult data sheets for older components and import the pad dimensions or custom place pads to suit the older / deleted / NOS components.I have looked at some tutorials on the pcb design software and theres some good and some bad teachers and a lot of useless waffle . I,m trying to get my head around Kicad and design spark,Dip Trace is looking better by far as it just seems easier to choose and do whats required rather than digress and go on some steep learning curve.Can,t understand Why someone out there has,nt yet come up with a common sense PCB design program that takes all the good points from the others and dumps all the bad points out .So back to the tutorials and more learning, can,t wait to get my first design result made and etched.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 10:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: cleanworkbench on January 07, 2019, 11:39:04 amFor causual use I do it with ExpressPcb. Its idiot proof and free, but you have to order the PCBs from them 1 time.

author: kony
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 10:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: jazper on January 07, 2019, 12:24:20 pmOnly if you are serious masochist.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:36:47 pm
content: Quote from: kony on January 24, 2019, 10:05:44 pmWhat's wrong with KiCad?When did you lastd use KiCad?It is a wonderfull and at least to me pretty intuitive program to use.From what I know the people disliking KiCad have not used it in several years, and KiCad is being improved significanlty over the last few years. It still has some idiosyncracies, but all PCB progams I have used over the last 30 years have them. The big bugs have been ironed out some time ago and the current effort is in improving the GUI uniformness and expanding capabilities.

author: MarkR42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:56:44 pm
content: I use Kicad, but I cannot say it is "wonderful and intuitive".It has many niggles and a few bad things. It has many inconsistencies and a few bugs (although they do get fixed!).But as far as I've seen, none of the other EDA packages are super-intuitive either. They have their own problems.Kicad comes with many built-in footprints, which are really handy for "simple" "standard" common things like passives and "jellybean" parts like smt regulators or transistors. But it's unlikely to have a footprint for a random smt IC, so you definitely need to learn to make your own.One of the things which is really annoying about pcb design, is that parts use a mixture of metric and imperial sizes. It's a pain, but we must tolerate it because that's Just How It Is.

author: kony
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 06:59:04 pm
content: I am hearing chants about how much better it got for last five years. It didn't useability wise. And note that by useability I am not complaining about learning curve, however steep it is - I am complaining about it not being useable for productive work even after you adapt to the excentric GUI and other sytem architecture obscurities it has (almost like it was designed by some academics without much prior expirience in the industry - I wonder why is that). Being time competetive in the design phase to other toolchains is impossible, no matter the effort intensity. Doing fullblown highspeed digital is nigh impossible regardless of the amount of effort.Last time I gave it serious try was half year ago, and it was just as bad as I remembered it from before. Usually when people start pulling comparsions in vein of "I am doing layout for 30 years and this is the best I had yet!" it usually turns out that all they had used previously is best case on par with glorified drawing boards like old Eagle, Formica and long list of other packages from 90s developed by single dev. The comparsion never is against Zucken, Cadence or Mentor tools that are the industry standard for productive use of layout and schematic capture tools.If what you are doing is solely hobby work and your time has no price tag to it, you don't mind running in circles and sometimes having to edit the board files in text editor to fix something, you will do with Kicad just right. But even then as a hobbyist, I will point you in direction of current Eagle, or the downgraded Altium version (forgot name).Toolchain provided footprints are trap regardless of what SW package it is. Never trust them, always check fully or replace with your own. Wizards for creating standardised packages variations are handy trough.

author: nenea dani
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 07:35:11 pm
content: I recently migrated down from Orcad to Easyeda to gain time. Easyeda can be fully understood in two hours, keeps everything in the cloud, is intuitive and provides gerber files that are accepted by all manufacturers. It does not have many libraries and does not make sophisticated analyzes, but for ordinary applications it's a perfect tool. Tutorial and FAQ solves everything. No PCB program treats everyone.Daniel

author: WPXS472
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 09:11:22 pm
content: I do't know if it is still available, but the student version of "Eagle" does most anything you could want, within its limitations, that is. If you start with a particular program, my advice is to stick with it. Just because you know one, doesn't mean any other will be easy. I tried Kicad. Couldn't make heads or tails of it, though I know someone who loves it. I bought Autotrax, which is supposed to be very capable and easy to use. Nothing about it made sense to me. I never used it and let my license lapse. Eagle has its little issues, for sure. I have done projects with it that I thought were going to kill me. I am not talking about complicated things either. After a few years, I got to the point where I could do a board pretty quickly. My former employers bought a license, but then erased that version from my PC. That license didn't work for newer versions, so I ended up using the student version for the last few years. I let the PC board house handle panelization. Solder stencils made from my artwork are still in use today and, by this point, millions of boards have been made using it as well. The free stuff the PC board houses supply would probably work as long as you were willing to buy your boards from them. My particular employer required Gerber files, which Eagle can easily produce.

author: nenea dani
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 07:32:46 pm
content: I find the question about what PCB program to use on all forums. Most of the time the discussion gets to spark and the questioner is forgotten. More important than the PCB editing program is to tell the one who asks how important the design rules are. I have seen many young engineers who use Orcad and Eagle easily, but they do not know the rules of design regarding SMPS, RF ..... Many of them run after the LOW ESR capacitors as expensive as for the BOM and then place them next to heaters and after a year wonder why a MOSFET has failed? I hope no one was upset.

author: Squiddaddy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 08:35:03 pm
content: I picked up Kicad pretty easily. I never used another software, so I didn't have to retrain.Managed to get boards made and JLCPCB processed them just fine.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 08:50:09 pm
content: I recently started trying KiCad myself. It has the enormous advantage of being open source, great for the hobbyist. Maybe it's not quite as polished or has as efficient a workflow as a commercial product, but as someone who just wants to make the occasional PCB for a personal project, it's plenty good enough. And I can save the licensing fees for more test equipment!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 08:54:16 pm
content: Quote from: JohnPen on January 07, 2019, 04:07:01 pmThey will upgrade it to the 500 pin (2 signal layer) non-profit Diptrace Lite for free if you send them a nice email.

author: JohnPen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 10:10:17 am
content: Very true I have not got round to that as my projects are relatively small scale and I haven't approached the 300 mark as yet. Current project is building an accurate calibrated attenuator that covers 0 -120 dB in 2.5 dB steps with close to 0.01 dB tolerance using relay switching. Sadly I do not have any equipment to finally prove the latter tolerance is met but the component values being used suggest it. Am I worried no the accuracy will certainly be well below a 0.1 dB tolerance level and it will be a useful addition to my general test equipment. Dip Trace certainly provides for me a very nice, easy to use PCB design package. The only problems I have had are sometimes finding suitable components/patterns in the libraries to reflect my somewhat random stock components.John

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 11:27:25 am
content: One nice thing of Diptrace for hobby use is that it supports routing on single sided board using wire links on component side.That is useful if you need to make low density board using photo transfer.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 12:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 31, 2019, 11:27:25 amDrawing on 2 layers with straight traces on top side would produce the same result, though. Just discard top layer.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 04:10:51 pm
content: Since nobody'y mentioned it, I use gEDA. I wouldn't call it inutitive, but it's OK and it's not too difficult to find or make footprints. I like it because it is free and the source is available (so when the package from the distribution core dumps you can put in a current version yourself).Any system that will take you from schematic to PCB fab is going to involve a learning curve, sometimes painful. The biggest problem seems to be acquiring the library of footprints that you use for your work. Once you have that and a little practice, you're good to go.There's pros and cons for providing footprints with the PCB package. If they're there, it's easier for a beginner, but you're locked into that particular form factor. If you have to build the library yourself, it will reflect what you're actually doing, but is harder for the beginner who only wants to make a pcb.