Need suggestion about DMM - Kyoritsu 1012 vs Hioki 4252 vs Fluke 17B+ - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 06:46:59 am
content: Hi,I am looking for my first DMM.I am planning to use the DMM for hobby(microcontroller and other low voltage measurements).The highest measurements may be for line voltage 220V.what I would like to have in a DMM is it should be responsive/fast, True RMS, mV, uA/mA, 6000 counts.the budget is around 80-130 USD.I am open to other brands as long as I can get it here.Here is the summary of those three candidates:HIOKI 4252USD142 (a little bit over budget but it is ok if I cannot find other alternative).in-house IC.I really like it because it has good build quality, I have seen it in a store.The real downside is it lacks mA and uA. HIOKI 4253 is way over budget.Kyoritsu 1012USD115 (well, this is around the price that I actually would like to spend)lower types of this brand use generic IC.never tried it on hand, do do not know the build quality and its measurement speed.still cannot find its teardown review.But I am aware that Kyoritsu is a respected company and my company also use this brand for micrometer gauge.Fluke 17B+USD125well, this has every measurement I want but the display is 4000 counts.never tried it on hand.no TRMS.Will I dislike DMMs with 4000 counts if I have been accustomed to 6000 counts on Fluke 87V?would you give suggestion which DMM?I have read in this forum that Brymen 257 is very recommended but I still connot find it here.anyone knows the distributor of Brymen in Indonesia?I edited the post to make it shorter.

author: Ebivetar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 09:24:12 am
content: Hello,I own KEW 1012 and HIOKI DT4256 (slightly better specs then DT4252) and have used fluke 17B.My opinion is that HIOKI is way better manufacturer then KYORITSU and Fluke. We are using lots of KEW and Fluke low end meters at work but Fluke DMMs have better price/performance ratio then Kyoritsu.We are also using Kyoritsu clamp meters, insulation testers and power quality analyzers. This instruments literally refuse to die while models 1009, 1011 and 1012 are manufactured but some no name factory in China and Kyoritsu just puts their logo on.If you need micro Amps go with the Fluke 17B+. KEW 1012 is really slow compared to 17B+ but it was nice DMM couple years agoIf you do not need micro Amps go with HIOKI DT4256. Really great DMM to have around.Also watch Joe videos. I believe that he had review on DT4252.

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 01:15:10 pm
content: thanks guys,QuoteBut the 17B+ is the only DMM in this price range, even it lasck TRMS.QuoteHave you tried it personally or seen any review?I cannot find any review about KEW 1012.I agree Hioki4252 has really good build quality because I have seen it in a store.I am still waiting for suggestion from others.I also would like to know where I can buy Brymen 257.while waiting, I have another candidate here.Agilent 1232AUSD95 (on discount, I am not sure though)being sold by a local B2B website. Never done any business with this website before.TRMS.has uA. I read it somewhere in this forum that one button can be set to switch a feature so this DMM can have mA.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 01:30:11 pm
content: Did you consider ordering Dave's BM235?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 01:32:58 pm
content: Agilent 1232A doesn't have a mA range.KEW1012 is made in China, not Japan.

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 02:44:08 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on July 16, 2016, 01:30:11 pmI do, alsi BM257. But I cannot find one here in Indonesia.even in ebay there is only 1 or 2 listing about this item.Do you have any information about the distributor in South East Asia?Quote from: Wytnucls on July 16, 2016, 01:30:11 pmI apologies. You are right. I edit my post above.I am not sure where KEW1012 is made.Do you still recommend it, given it is made in China?

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 02:49:33 pm
content: I find that UNI-T 61E will fit my needs but I do not like what it looks inside.I am not sure if my logic is correct, but I would rather go for MASTECH MS8239C for 1/3 the price of 61E.It is because I feel they are just the same in the safety department and MS8239C looks tidy inside as well.I know not everybody will like this reason but I tend to go to the extreme (low, sometimes high) when I cannot get what I need in my budget range.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 03:51:14 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 16, 2016, 07:29:15 amI'm having trouble finding the continuity test specs of the DT5262 and the KY1012. The Fluke 17B+ is my go-to meter for continuity checks which it performs at 0.53V and 250uA -- very important, as my previous meter used >1V and >1mA, which is ridiculous.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 04:46:38 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 16, 2016, 03:51:14 pmThere is no Hioki DT5262. If you mean what the OP originally asked for, the DT4252, the specs are in the manual athttps://www.hioki.com/hdfile.jsp?id=20535DT4252 is 200uA with 1.8V or less (screenshot below)KY1012 specs are right in the manual athttp://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/download/pdf/manual/english/1012_IM_92-1825C_E_L.pdfCut and paste below (0.5V, likely 0.4mA same as diode?)BTW, the sampling rate for the KY1012 is 400ms or roughly 2.5 times/sec. The Fluke 87V that OP uses at work is 4 time/sec. The Fluke 87V also outputs 7.9V and 1mA in continuity (600 ohm range).

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 04:55:02 pm
content: Quote from: avocado on July 16, 2016, 06:46:59 amFranky, a member here, *I think* ships worldwide, but his store is closed until July 19. He must be on holidays?http://stores.ebay.com/99centHobbieshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/franky's-sales-thread/If you buy from him direct, i.e. not off ebay, he can reduce the price a bit and pass the savings along to you.PS. I'm not financially affiliated with Franky or his store, ebay in any way, but Franky has done business here a lot and many members including myself can speakly highly of his quick shipping and service.He dropped by to say Hi to Dave.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:06:39 pm
content: Quote from: avocado on July 16, 2016, 06:46:59 amThe KY1011 might be close enough to the 1012 to give you an idea. Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/kyoritsu-1011-digital-multimeter/Now I have never used this meter, but personally, I'm not impressed with the internal build quality for $115USD especially in 2016. They use a generic case like the Tekpower 4000 ($30 USD meter). The KY1011 is built in 2011 with stand up resistors, one sad looking PTC, electrolytic caps and crappy AA plastic battery holder. You have to remove the entire case to replace fuses just like the Fluke 87V.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:20:03 pm
content: Quote from: avocado on July 16, 2016, 06:46:59 amIf you are used to using a Fluke 87V at work, you may want to consider buying an used Fluke 87 I (original). On ebay.com, you can usually find them in the $100 USD range. I don't know how much shipping would cost, but that is at least one option. The original Fluke has 4000 count at 4 updates/sec, but in high resolution mode, it can go to 20,000 count at 1 update/sec.Difference between the I and V are documented, somewhat, athttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/i-need-to-know-the-history-of-fluke-87-(-1998-2010-)/If you are really lucky and have patience, I have seen used Fluke 87V go for $100 USD. The Fluke 87 III is another option in the same price range.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:25:27 pm
content: Thanks for digging those up, I was just looking at the datasheets, should have gone deeper. It's frustrating that continuity check is usually presented as a checkbox feature rather than one worthy of specs (I, V, latch speed/hold).Fluke 87V (8V/1mA): agreed, continuity voltage/current are one of the worst I've seen for in-situ prodding, probably a holdover from an earlier era.17B+ (0.53V/250uA): appears to not state any precise values for continuity check in the manual (just N/A, N/A, N/A, very frustrating). But in practice I saw in a review and can confirm on my own unit that these values are true.KY1012: 0.5V/0.4mA is quite acceptable as well.DT4252: 1.8V lags behind, that's plenty to start turning on protection diodes, transistors, and such.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:30:17 pm
content: Looks like a nice DMM.https://www.hioki.com/en/products/detail/?product_key=5729https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4252-teardown/Well, it can measure 6.000 Amps. It is not UL listed, but i consider it quite safe. It survived robustness testing byjoeqsmith. I like the input jacks. But there is no beepjack feature like on Brymen DMMs.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:41:15 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 16, 2016, 05:06:39 pmOf the 3 listed by the OP in post #1, the 1012, if the 1011 is a good proxy, is definitely the worst built internally. The 17B+ and 4252 are way better and more what I would expect in the $100 USD price range in terms of internal build quality and components in 2016.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:53:29 pm
content: @jjoonathan, Some meters like this one in Dave's blog (Tektronix DMM916)have an option for low ohms to reduce the voltage and current. I haven't seen this option on too many recent meters though?I think I *may* have damaged only one thing using meters that output a lot of voltage and current when in circuit testing. Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-77-ac-wandering-offset/I did use the Fluke 87V to measure C11. The meter still shows -0L in ACV and AC current mode. On the other hand, since then, I have learned from Excavatoree that U1 can sometimes fail for no reason or due to poor soldering. So it could be a complete coincidence?Other than that, I normally pickup whatever meter happens to be closest to do in circuit testing. I could be affecting my results, but so far I haven't noticed and I'm only normally doing just repairs and not circuit design, bread board, etc.

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 08:33:10 am
content: Hi guys,Thanks for all your suggestion.I will wait for franky's store.Please infrom me if anyone know where I can get BRYMEN BM 235 or BM 257.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 11:40:03 am
content: Did you check the Uni-T 139c ?

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 07:30:00 pm
content: Couldn't you just order from Dave? Even with substantial shipping costs, the BM235 is still a good deal.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 09:09:27 pm
content: Quote from: avocado on July 19, 2016, 08:33:10 amFranky's store is open now. Ebay lets me choose Indonesia as a destination with free shipping from Hong Kong.Just send Franky a PM to confirm the details.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 11:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: daybyter on July 19, 2016, 11:40:03 amMeasures only up to 600V AC / DC.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2016, 01:18:23 am
content: And he wants to measure up to 220 V ?

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 01:06:00 pm
content: Guys,Thank you for all guidance.Today I bought this HIOKI 4212 on local store for 56USD.Sorry that I might have dissapointed you.I decided not to buy from ebay(import it myself) because while shipping fee is not that much, I am afraid the tax will add a quite hefty amount of money. I am not sure but it can be 20-30%.140USD + 20-30%tax = 170-180USD.I am aware that some part of me is accustomed to fast response, 4 1/2 digit, 6000 counts Fluke 87V.But I think for now I have to be content with this Hioki 4212.Thank you all once again.I will open this Hioki to see inside 1 year from now, since it is still under warranty.Not a real warranty actually because there is no Hioki Service Center here.But the store said they will help to repair the DMM if something bad happen.I hope not.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 05:02:10 pm
content: Quote from: avocado on July 23, 2016, 01:06:00 pmWe know what your Hioki 4212 (ODM/OEM is DER EE DE-240) looks like inside viahttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-4212-multimeter-pictures/

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 07:27:34 pm
content: A very nice DMM with easy fuse access. I would rather choose Brymen, but this Hioki is probably very good for the price.

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 06:42:09 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 23, 2016, 05:02:10 pmI have seen that too..hmm..I might have mixed up my memories, I thought that was Hioki 4211 or well I do not know.lolMaybe because I have browsed to many DMM reviews in this forum.lol