Might not have much luck here, but can you tell me what this is? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 10:47:43 pm
content: I know I might not have much luck asking this here, but I’m hoping someone here will know the answer to this one.I found an old arcade or pinball machine board, and I’m restoring it to working condition and donating it to my college’s industrial electronics class (the school used to teach about communications, computers, and CRT televisions before they changed the curriculum to general industrial electronics).I looked all over the board, and I cannot find a single serial number or name. I cannot look at the ROM data on the EEPROMs because I do not have a EEPROM reader. It looks like a Galaga board, but at the same time it looks like a pinball machine board. It features a Z80 CPU, with an AY-3-8910 sound chip and 4 N82S09N bipolar 576(?) bit PROM (or static RAM, I got mixed results from the search on this one) chips.Yes, it actually has crystals, but I took them off because they were corroded through. One was 10MHz, and the other was unmarked.I may be way off on what this board actually is, but my gut is telling me it is an arcade game or pinball game board.Also, any advice on how to remove this ungodly amount of chips efficiently with an iron, desoldering braid, and solder sucker would really be appreciated.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 11:27:40 pm
content: N82S09 is a 64 x 9 SRAM:www.elektronikjk.pl/elementy_czynne/IC/82S09-2.pdf

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 11:40:18 pm
content: "Rockola Eyes" machines look like the closest PCB style to me.I used to replace ICs on PCBs like that just using a solder sucker, plenty of heat and sometimes adding a bit more solder before sucking.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 12:29:58 am
content: Whichever game it's from, looks like someone got there before you and literally tore components off the board. You won't get it working without carefully restoring the missing parts, repairing the traces, etc. Desoldering any more components is antithetical to this.If you do that, you may be able to figure out where to connect a speaker and various voltages. If so, record the sounds and ask on an arcade forum. But getting to that point without the schematic will be hard ... catch-22.And again, strongly advise you stop posting the precise coordinates of your home with every photo. We don't need to know where you live, and you probably don't want internet randoms being able to look up your address either. I've said enough about this.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 12:54:53 am
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on December 29, 2019, 12:29:58 amThanks, appreciate the help. Yeah, someone tore a few of the logic chips off. I’m carefully removing all chips and other components to see any damage to the traces and vias so I can fix them. Also, the crooked chips are not actually in place, I took those out already. I put them on their former spots to show what chip was where (it wouldn’t be too helpful if a majority of the prominent chips were not able to be seen in their respective positions.)Also, WAIT THE LOCATION OF MY HOME WAS IN MY ATTACHMENTS?! WTF APPLE!! Ugh, thanks for telling me. I’ll watch out for that from now on when adding pics from my iPhone. That caught me off guard!

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 01:50:20 am
content: Yeah, it's known asgeotagging. Super useful for piecing together the events of a drunken night out ... not so goodwhen photos get posted publicly.I usually leave it on in the camera or phone, but strip the EXIF before uploading. Sites that resize photos for display (Facebook, Instagram, etc.) mostly do this for you, but they almost certainly hold on to the data, because they use your data to make money.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 02:10:02 am
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on December 29, 2019, 01:50:20 amJust read that article, I think I’m going to disable all geo tracking/tagging on my device. I like my life, thank you very muchThough off topic, I appreciate the heads up.

author: googlyone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 03:19:34 am
content: Tip: taking IC's off that board will without doubt cause more damage in the vias and to traces than you will ever be able to find and/or repair. Certainly it will cause more trouble than it is worth. I promise you....If you are bent on getting the board working, you really (really) need to-1- Find yourself a schematic. If you are an extreme masochist, have the patience of a saint and are extraordinarily smart, then you might get away without a schematic...-2- Replace all the missing parts and repair those tracks that already have visible damage-3- Apply power to the board-4- And then stop as there is a heap of stuff missingI assume I am not telling you anything new here but:a) you are missing the power supplyb) youdoknow which pins are GND and +5V (the board is riddled with 74LS series chips)c) you will have to guess at things like crystal frequencies (or use the datasheet that you really ought to have)d) look for smoke - and repair causes of smoke until it stopse) look for logic in/out of all those chipsf) scratch you head at all the missing parts of the system:) But you will have the thing powered and be able to reverse engineer the connector....

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 06:17:17 am
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 10:47:43 pm...and why not? In your hobby it seems to be a nice thing to have, and it's not expensive to get a decent one anymore.https://www.ebay.com/itm/TL866II-Plus-USB-minipro-Programmer-10-Adapter-EEPROM-FLASH-AVR-MCU-PIC-SPI-Kit/173088232681?hash=item284cdcd4e9:g:8-wAAOSwHQxcdeFlPlus this one has a "device test" function, drop in a DIP logic chip and it will test it. Fixed a Commodore Plus 4 real quick when I found bad LS157s in the DRAM circuitry.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 06:23:22 am
content: Without an EPROM reader you will get nowhere repairing vintage arcade boards. It's one of my most used tools, behind my logic probe and multimeter. Pull one of the ROMs, read it, upload the image to the online ROM Ident and it will tell you what game it is.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 12:24:44 pm
content: It's stuffed full of Mitsubishi, Hitachi and Fujitsu chips, so I would guess it is probably of Japanese origin. Also, having no identifying markings makes me think that perhaps it's a clone - can't think of any other reason why the maker would not want to be known.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 05:58:12 pm
content: There were loads of legit boards back in the day that had no markings on them beyond stickers on the ROMs, especially conversion boards from small manufactures. It's really hard to say just by looking at it.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 06:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: googlyone on December 29, 2019, 03:19:34 amI'd agree.With the CPU in the corner and all the ICs being mounted the same way, that PCB is quite distinctive but I've not found a match in many 100s of google images. I think it's unidentifiable.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 06:21:31 pm
content: Many chips are 1983. Here's a list of arcade video games of that period:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_arcade_video_games

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 07:39:27 pm
content: At the moment, to me it looks like a Galaga board. Large amount of chips, big capacitors (when it had them on the board before I took them off for replacement), cluster of audio circuitry in the upper-right hand corner...Also, update on repair of board, for anyone interested... Someone has been in here before me, ripping out four or five logic chips and attempting to remove the CPU and SRAM. They did a terrible job, and their bad workmanship left old sticky flux all over the board - And I cant remove it with IPA! It is so old it seems to have bonded to the board in a sticky mess of yeck.Also found a missing trace, looks like it was ripped out by the inexperienced person who tried servicing the board before me.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 09:40:23 pm
content: The Galaga boards I've dealt with were a two board stack about half the size of that one. It's possible that it's a Galaga bootleg but there's no way to tell without either getting it working or dumping one of the ROMs to identify that. Don't just start pulling parts, troubleshoot in a logical manner. Hook it up on the bench and see what it does, start by identifying the CPU, program ROM and program RAM, get the CPU running the program and then go from there.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 10:10:25 pm
content: And do a dump of the EPROMs and search for strings...

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 02:20:25 am
content: A hash of one of the EPROMs is probably all that is needed to identify it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 08:26:54 am
content: I already mentioned a tool that will identify the ROM image for you, here's the link.http://romident.coinopflorida.com/

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 01:18:58 pm
content: I think it's this Popeye Bootleg PCB - therefor no manufacturer stated and the layout looks pretty much the same:http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcadereps4/popeye.htmYou can even buy one (working condition) on eBay:https://www.ebay.de/itm/Popeye-Bootleg-PCB-Working-Arcade-PCB-100-Video-Game/193057876245

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 06:43:03 pm
content: "I think it's this Popeye Bootleg PCB"It is, I don't know how you found it!https://www.arcadecollectors.co.uk/mystuff/myprojects/popeye-bootleg-pcb/

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 06:07:45 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on December 31, 2019, 01:18:58 pmYou are a goddamn LEGEND! I can’t imagine how much time you put into looking for a matching board, thank you so much for helping me outThat being said, everyone else who contributed, I thank all of you as well for the suggestions on how to identify the game. It means a lot when people put their heads together to find answers to questions like these, especially for someone like myself.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 08:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 06:07:45 pmLess than 10 minutes, actually.Concerning the PCB, I'm not sure, if it's worth the trouble. Those bootleg boards seem to have been barely working - when new. And this one has been pundered for a reason, I guess...