Is there a difference between R-C and C-R circuit? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: dusan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 03:50:17 pm
content: When I connect 2 circuits A and B using serial RC circuit, is there a difference if I put cap first and resistor second or other way around? Can the black boxes A and B tell the difference? Are there some "gotchas"?

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 04:08:39 pm
content: both are equal from the point of view of black boxes A and B.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 04:18:40 pm
content: There is no difference between either circuit until you tap a connection between the resistor and capacitor . In variant #1 , a tap between the resistor and capacitor would create a High pass filter . Variant #2 , with a tap between capacitor and resistor , would create a Low pass filter .

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 06:33:32 pm
content: You got the answer to the “if” question. Let me elaborate on how we know that.Intuitive explanation:There are only two variables that may be observed by a box: the current through that circuit and voltage drop on it.(1)The current entering the resistor is always leaving it. The current entering the capacitor is always leaving it. So if the current can’t change in any of those components, it will always be the same no matter the order.As for voltage, let’s first consider each component separately. The only thing each of them sees is the current and that determines the voltage across them. Since we know that the current is the same no matter where they are in this circuit, we can say the same holds for the voltage. And the voltage across the whole RC or CR pair is just a simple sum, which is insensitive to the order of summed elements.Simple explanation:If you are just starting with electronics, it may be too early to introduce maths behind that. But it may be worth knowing such a concept exists. Resistors, capacitors and inductors may be described by a single number calledimpedance. That is a complex number that is resistance, capacitance and inductance at the same time. The impedance of a series of impedances is just a sum. And since sum is independent of the order in which we take elements, the impedance will be the same for both RC and CR arrangement.____(1)I did two mental shortcuts in here, but those are fine. First: there are two current variables, one for each wire going out of the box. But those are always equal in magnitude, so they may be considered one thing. Second: it’s actually voltage between the wires that is observed. But that depends directly on the voltage drop on that circuit — I just skipped that part to not make the explanation needlessly complicated and requiring unnecessary effort from me.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 11:29:26 pm
content: In theory there is no difference. In practice there sometimes is because the parasitic elements to ground are different in the two configurations.For example when a long wire is connected to the emitter or base of a transistor for the output or input signal, (1) a low value snubber resistor may be placed at the transistor to isolate the reactive component of the wire. Moving this resistor to the other end of the wire would render it ineffective.(1) Maybe the transistor is located remotely for better heat sinking, or it drives a long cable.

author: Capernicus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 05:11:40 am
content: itll do different things depending on the power source.a) dc power.b) ac power.c) charging it with another capacitor.if you flip the polarity of a resistor cap in series itll pretty much behave the same, same goes for however complex the circuit is I guess, pure RC circuits are fully reversable.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 05:16:23 am
content: Quote from: Capernicus on October 27, 2021, 05:11:40 amNo, it won't. Don't post nonsense that will confuse newbies.

author: Capernicus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 09:39:45 am
content: Im pretty sure dc will act different than ac.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 11:07:19 pm
content: Of course it will, but it won't make a difference what order the components are wired in.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 12:59:40 am
content: Quote from: Capernicus on October 27, 2021, 09:39:45 amFor anything driving that and any load it will be identical no matter the order of elements. Or even if you add a billion other elements there. For reasons explained in my post above. The impedance stays the same.David Hess has made a note about a real-world components. That is a valid warning, but it happens because the whole circuit changes and other loops appear in it — it’s not a matter of merely changing the order of elements in that model.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 06:21:11 am
content: A sufficiently fast TDR would tell them apart

author: LaryPant
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 08:16:06 am
content: Quote from: magic on October 28, 2021, 06:21:11 amThis is due to transmission line theory, which is taught at university, but you should not worry about that!You can and should consider the two scenarios to be equivalent, especially if you are new to electronics.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 10:21:37 am
content: Quote from: magic on October 28, 2021, 06:21:11 amThat’s because the prcircuit changes. It grows legs to the ground.