Does a SWIR camera sensitive to thermal energy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 01:48:47 pm
content: Hi everyone.Today I found one of my old collection and decided to give it a try, this is the camera:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/usb-to-pci-adapter/msg614754/#msg614754I tried to find a connector for it in that post, and didn't success, so I just connect the video output to a monitor, and... it works! It boot up and display a big "Indigo system" logo, then the image shows successfullyBut... I bought it as a SWIR camera, and now, it act like a thermal camera...It don't see through glass and not respond well to light shadows, but it show thermal very well, I put my hand on the table and it clearly shows the print after I take my hand away. It also have a shutter that automatically do the NUC, and do have effect on images. I don't have a SWIR light source so I cannot test very well.So... for you guys opinion, is it a SWIR camera? I think SWIR camera can only see thermal with very high temperatures, and they work by photon so shouldn't need NUC. So do I actually got a thermal imaging camera?Thank you.

author: joe-c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 02:10:36 pm
content: what you describe sounds like a thermal camera.i ask google...Code:In 2003, FLIR acquired Indigo Systems,a leading developer and supplier of a wide range of infrared imaging products,including cooled and uncooled infrared detectors, camera cores, and finished cameras.http://www.flir.de/about/display/?id=55679i think yes

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 06:32:57 pm
content: Sam1275,My comments....1. That is an Indigo compact thermal camera, likely originally deployed in a thermal CCTV application.2. The camera contains a microbolometer and is LWIR3. SWIR is a thermal wavelength as well.4. SWIR cameras are normally cooled by Liquid Nitrogen or a Sterling Cooler. The Sterling Cooler takes around 5 to 10 minutes to get the die down to -196C5. The presence of a FFC shutter indicates a microbolometer sensor array.6. For info there are three wavelengths associated with Thermal imaging.... SWIR, MWIR and LWIR. These are very different wavelengths to those used for IR vision in CCTV etc. Those wavelengths are commonly called Near IR (NIR) and cannot resolve a thermal scene unless its temperature is very high indeed. A CCD imaging sensor can resolve targets in excess of 400C.I hope you enjoy using your Indigo thermal cameraFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 07:00:12 pm
content: Without more pictures I cannot be certain but it looks like the Indigo UL3 VOx sensor based Alpha Series or possibly an OMEGA series camera.Take a look here......http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA461318Look familiar ?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 07:23:13 pm
content: Looking at the one rear picture you have provided, I believe you have the Indigo UL3 Alpha thermal camera. This uses a VOx Microbolometer with 160 X 120 pixels. It incorporates a thermo electric temperature stabiliser (Peltier type) and is a LWIR camera as already stated. The zuS lilitary document I referenced provides some insight into the UL3 Alpha series and the later Omega series.There was a spin-off Alpha NIR camera that was not thermal. It was designed for detection of NIR energy from lasers etc. Such a camera would not produce a thermal image of a target at ambient temperatures.The rear multi pin connector provides access to the cameras data I/O port but I have no details of the data format, or command sequences that it responds to. It operates in a fully automatic 'best image' mode when not under remote control. As such it makes a great thermal CCTV camera or observation camera on a UAV. This was its use in the military.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 07:51:45 pm
content: It has been a good day and I am feeling helpful so I have dug the user manual for the Alpha camera out of my thermal camera data archive.FLIR no longer hold this manual on their web site.This user manual should give you plenty of useful informationEnjoyFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 08:12:14 pm
content: I just read the user manual.The good news is that the camera can be controlled via standard RS232 from a PC. The connector on the rear of the camera is a standard type an not bespoke. Likely from AMP but I do not have the exact type ID.I do not have the PC software in my archive but FLIR Customer Services may be able to help on that front. You can send commands to the camera from a terminal program and the command set is included in the manual.It is no surprise that this cameras control is similar to the PHOTON, and TAU that followed it.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 08:23:46 pm
content: Aux I/O connector detail for you......Manufacturer : 3MTypesCamera side: 10226-1210VECable/PCB side:Solder Cup 10126-3000VEPCB Mount 10126-5212VCIDC Cable 10126-6000ECThe mating connector for the camera is available from Digikey and Mouser:http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/3m/10126-3000VE/3M1703-ND/703370http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Solutions-Division/10126-3000VE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvPYQC1fAPULIWn7tZtP4mautIvC96%252bGuA%3dI think that is enough help from me for now....enjoy playing with the camera.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 08:40:50 pm
content: Hmmm, I may be wrong about the model of your cameraHaving done some background reading on the Indigo Alpha NIR model, it is fitted with an Indium Gallium Arsenide (InGaAs) detector array. Such an array IS capable of detecting thermal energy in the SWIR area of the spectrum. The InGaAs sensor works in the 0.9um to 1.7um wavelength region.You COULD have the Alpha NIR thermal camera. The remote control commands may be the same though.I will advise further in due course.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 08:52:38 pm
content: Nope, I was right first time. Your camera does not have the correct case design for the Alpha NIR model.The Alpha NIR user manual is attached so you can see for yourself.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 10:31:30 am
content: OK no joy finding the Alpha control Software so FLIR is likely the best next point of call.I think I have done all I can for you on this particular camera so no more from me.Fraser

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:42:48 pm
content: Quote from: joe-c on September 26, 2016, 02:10:36 pmThank you.

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:59:48 pm
content: Wow, thank you very very much Fraser!!! I didn't expected that much info, you are amazingHere's the front photo I just taken:All 3 sides (top, left, right) looks exactly the same, flat, black with no marks or logos. It's still not the same looking with Alpha, but maybe just different versions...I've heard that objects only emit SWIR if it's very hot, or maybe I'm wrong...My camera surely don't have a cooling system, it show the picture after only 5-10 secs after power on.I read the user manual and it seems no way to adjust the FFC trigger temperature interval, sometimes it have a heavy white (hot) ring around the picture when looking at low delta temperature scene, and I have to wait the next NUC...Thank you again for the massive help!Sam

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:23:01 pm
content: Umm, so seems I got a "new" thermal camera in my collection (and lose a SWIR camera)I love TICs from the first time I know them, and maybe last forever, I feel just incredible when looking through themI never thought I'll get so many TICs... Here are they:MSA evolution 4000 320x240 VOXBullard eagle eye 6 320x240 BSTFlir i5 - hacked 120x120 VOXIndigo Alpha 160x128 VOXL3 thermal eye 2620AS 160x120 a-SiFeel free to share what TICs you have guys.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:24:24 pm
content: Sam,Your camera certainly looks like an ALPHA with the tripod mount attached to its bottom. Take a look at the attached picture and compare. The camera to the rear is the ALPHA, with an OMEGA in the foreground. The lens is different but they look the same to my eyes.SWIR is radiated just the same as MWIR and LWIR. An item does not have to be very hot to radiate SWIR. I have used cooled SWIR FLIR PM550 cameras to view targets at very low temperatures, well below ambient.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:29:14 pm
content: Sam,You asked, so here is my current collection..... 49 cameras in total at last countI have duplicates of many of these cameras, hence the 49 total.AGEMA 880DEWALT / IRISYS DCT-416EEV P4428EEV ARGUS 1EEV ARGUS 2EEV ARGUS 4FLIR PM570FLIR PM575FLIR PM695FLIR SC500FLIR SC3000FLIR E2FLIR E4 (Upgraded to320x240 + enhanced menus)FLIR One Generation 2 AndroidFLIR MS224 upgraded to SCOUT II PS32FLIR HS324 CommanderFLUKE / IRISYS VT02INFRAMETRICS PM280INFRAMETRICS ThermaSnap 525IRISYS IRI 1011ISG Talisman (Pyro vidicon version)ISG Talisman (Wasp BST version)MIKRON /NEC Avio MikroShot / F1SNEC Avio TH7102WNEC Avio TH7302WNEC Avio TH9100RAYTHEON 300ARAYTHEON CADILLAC Deville Night visionSATIR MinIR80TESTO 880Fraser

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:37:38 pm
content: Hi Fraser.Thank you very much.I thought that tripod mount was a heat sink embedded on the enclosure...Your collections are really great!Sam

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 06:01:20 pm
content: Sam,I can totally understand you believing that the tripod adapter is a fixed part of the camera and a heat sink. That is what it looks like.The Alpha User manual comments on the tripod adapter plate in section 5. I have attached a grab of that section for your reference. The tripod plate may safely be removed if not wanted in a particular application.Fraser

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:37:08 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on September 27, 2016, 06:01:20 pmThank you very much, I appreciate your help.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:18:07 am
content: Sam,You are most welcome. It was a pleasure to help.Thank you for your thanks...... On some occasions I hear nothing back from those I assist. That can be somewhat disappointing.Hope you enjoy playing with the Alpha. It is a nice little camera.Frase

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 10:45:27 am
content: The front photo posted is not an Alpha, it is an Omega. The Alpha is a small lens aperture with shutter in front while the picture posted shows a conventional lens element. So the good news is that it is a better camera and the 30mm lens will be quite narrow FoV.Not sure if the control software will be the same though.There is a big warning in the quick start guide that 'do not connect power and Aux I/O breakout box at once' which is a bit stronger than the warning as a footnote in para 8.2 of the manual!Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 04:31:49 pm
content: Hmmmm, not sure I agree regarding the Omega ID. The military document I referenced and the image I extracted shows the Alpha to be a closer match to the OP's images than an Omega. The Omega appears to have a different front plate around the lens. The Omega is a very different size and weight so it would be easy to be certain by just measuring the OP's camera.Go on Sam, put us out of our misery and compare the dimensions of your camera with those in the manual.I would be happy to be proved wrong as the Omegais indeed a better camera. The pictures just do not tally however. This demonstrates the importance of dimensional and weight data when trying to ID an otherwise bland looking camera.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 04:50:56 pm
content: Pictures of Indigo UL3 Omega front attached. Very different to the Alpha and OP images.IIRC the Indigo Omega has a single multipole connector on the rear and no video or power connectors.Size comparison:Alpha: 1.7" x 1.7" x 3.0"Omega: 1.4" x 1.3" x 1.9"Weight without lensAlpha: 186gOmega: 102gFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 05:17:18 pm
content: For information, the Indigo OMEGA was renamed the ThermoVision Micron by FLIR and is designated the A10 model.I attach the user manual for the Micron. It is identical to the original OMEGA.As I remembered, the OMEGA has a single rear connector.Having revisited this, I still believe the OP's camera to be an Alpha and not an Omega model.Fraser

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 08:48:47 am
content: Thank you all!My camera is 76x43x43 mm, so it is an alpha.

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 09:07:41 am
content: I already think it's very small and handy, just imaging the omega is smaller than mine, wow...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 10:29:11 am
content: Even though it is an Alpha, it may be worth trying Omega control software with it. FLIR still support the Micron A10 and I suspect you can download the control softwRe for an A10 on their support site. I would need to check.In Précis, the whole family of these cameras has the Alpha first, then the Omega, followed by the Photon and the TAU. They are all Indigo design technology that has just developed over the years. Very neat little cameras.Other mini thermal cameras such as the Quark have followed, but I am uncertain of their lineage.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 12:45:02 pm
content: How many versions of Alpha were there ? Was it just an oddity of the wide lens to have had an external shutter ?That said the serial number of the one I have run up is 00066 !Pics later, but it is not a very well cameraA link to a short report on these cameras from 2000http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/data/Conferences/SPIEP/34854/65_1.pdfBill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 01:54:43 pm
content: Bill,The ALPHA was, at the time, ground breaking technology in terms of its compact format and capabilities. It would not surprise me if custom 'specials' exist as the result of specific customer needs. Much like Pulnix 'building block' visible light cameras can be found in all manner of formats and brand names to suit industrial applications. As I am sure you know, it was designed to be a versatile thermal imaging platform for UAV use so I feel sure many different optical path options were available for the military.I know a little about these ALPHA cameras as I worked with one many years ago but sadly I have not been able to buy an example from the USA when they come up in auctions because of export controls on themA nice OMEGA sold recently for only around $300. I was very sad to have not been able to buy it.Bill, if your Alpha ever needs to be re-homed, please think of me, even if it is broken.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2016, 01:20:14 pm
content: The images as promised from an early Indigo Alpha...Startup logoBland room scene, and this is a good one right after NUC. Degenerated to severe columns and repetitive suggesting common readout circuitry every 16 pixels.however for civil use remember that the competition was Pevicons !Better once there is something to look atThe requisite soldering iron imageThe software provided (!)