Rechargable vs. Non-Rechargable Batteries - AA/AAA Size - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 08:07:53 am
content: So I just had to scrounge around for batteries for my mouse and realised that I have no AA/AAA sizes batteries in the house (I had to steal them from a remote control). It's something I rarely buy, maybe once a year, if that?Is it worth just buying a bulk pack of batteries for the few devices that use them or invest in a few sets of rechargeables? Everything I use them in are very low drain (wireless mouse/keyboard, IR remote controls etc...). I don't mind spending a bit of money for decent cells like Eneloop.What are people's experiences?

author: audiotubes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 08:48:17 am
content: The answer seems to be based on how much you use the devices. For things I want to work when I need them but don't use much (like some flashlights I have stashed around the house) I spend extra for non-rechargeable lithium batteries. They won't leak and they have a long shelf life.For things which I use often I use eneloops, which also should not leak. I use them in remotes, powered keyboards, mice, etc. But I have some devices (Russian calculators) that won't run on them, they need every bit of voltage from alkalines, or some HP Calculators for which rechargeables are not available (like the HP 41 models)...so for these devices I do use alkalines but the best I can find, and I remove them if I don't expect to use the devices for a while. My other HPs run fine on eneloops or non-rechargeable lithiums.I've had good luck not to have many devices affected by leaks but alkalines will leak if you leave them around long enough. One Palm Pilot I have was injured by leaky Duracells, which in my experience was uncommon enough to be an unexpected, surprising disappointment.So my general thought is to use eneloops whenever possible except for devices which get very infrequent use in which case I use the lithiums. The latter are very expensive, but not nearly as expensive as replacing precious old devices which are now unobtanium. The eneloops seem to behave well and last long enough in modern devices, and there are all kinds of chargers, some quite smart, to refresh them or at least fill them up.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 09:42:08 am
content: I seem to end up with bad experiences with Eneloops, I'm not sure how they have the reputation of being good. The last set decreased massively in capacity after about a year and a half. I left some others for 6 months sitting in my flash guns with the power switch turned off but they now no longer accept more than a couple of hundred mAh charge.The Duracell rechargables have lasted no problem in the same items. That said, I end up just buying GP Ultra batteries in bulk these days since it's less hassle overall and actually cheaper compared to the Eneloops I'd bought!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 10:03:29 am
content: My requirements are very low drain and long life. The keyboard and mouse I use daily, but a set of alkaline batteries last about a year (if not more).I'm just wondering if it's worth bothering with rechargeable batteries.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 10:12:31 am
content: I'm never buying primary Alkaline batteries again. Bought a bunch of AA and AAA rebranded Eneloops. Ikea Ladda was that when I bought it, and some of the Amazonbasics was also, just have to do some research on it before buying. Bought it in bulk and never looked back.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 10:19:45 am
content: It depends how long the batteries last.Some wireless mice really eat batteries and can drain a set in 1 to 3 months. In those cases it is worth getting rechargeable ones as you will go trough quite a lot of batteries in a year.But with power efficient devices that last >1 year on a set of batteries its not worth it. They will self discharge faster than they get used up and will end up giving up the ghost of old age after a number of years anyway. I had some mice and keyboards where a set of 2xAAs lasts like 2 years of regular use, even longer if it was light use.For really long storage, something like an emergency flashlight the more expensive lithium non rechargeable batteries are indeed very good as after 10 years they will easily keep all there charge and not leak. I also use these batteries in expensive things like multimeters since i don't want a 300 dollar multimeter destroyed by saving a few bucks on cheap alkaline batteries that end up leaking all over it. The lithium ones do last longer, but only a bit while costing a lot more, so it makes more sense to still use regular cheep ones in things you don't care about as much (like a wall clock).

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 10:21:05 am
content: Still running some close to 10 year old Enerloops but mainly swapped to Safeway sourced Energizer AA and AAA rechargeables. Even with buying bulk Primary cells to keep the costs down Rechargables are still the best way to go in the long term for $ providing you buy low self discharge ones.My handheld DMM 'fleet' plus a few other portable bits of test gear and all my wireless keyboards (4) and mice are on rechargeables and I just keep a spare 2-4 of each in the drawer charged and ready to go if needed.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 10:27:05 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 14, 2021, 10:03:29 amGood NiMH cell are supposed discharge less than 10~20% over one year, so not much capacity is lost in such application.I like them because it's 3 hours in a charger and they are back, no risk of running out of them, no stocking, no leaking. A few old alkalines (stored in a plastic box) cover occasional emergency needs.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 11:30:05 am
content: Go to Lidl and buy some 'Tronic eco' (the green ones) NiMH batteries. They're specified to retain 75% capacity after 1 year. At the price, you can't go wrong.(You might need to wait for them to come in on a centre isle special though)

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 05:24:59 pm
content: Quote from: SteveyG on July 14, 2021, 09:42:08 amAre these the white labeled 1900 mAh cells? Does your charger have a refresh/recycle function or a capacity measurement function? What make and model charger do you have?My most used/abused Eneloop 1900 mAh AA cells from 10 years ago used almost daily/heavily in its first 2 years has probably over 1000 recharges and still measure 1850+ mAh.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 05:36:31 pm
content: Quote from: SteveyG on July 14, 2021, 09:42:08 amEarlier on, before low self discharge nimh, I bought name brand and 99 cent ebay AA nimh cells and almost all those cells over 10+ years have lost 50% or more of their capacity. The ebay cells never had 50% to begin with even brand new.These cells would lose about 1% of their capacity each day brand new. The name brands would be used in my digital camera and I learned to charge them the night before if I wanted best performance and capacity. I now use these cells for small non critical things where capacity doesn't matter.The 10+ year old Eneloops and it's various label variants goes into remote, camera, controller, mouse, toothbrush, shaver, etc. Pretty much all my Eneloops, when I last checked about 1 year ago, are close to their rated capacity as reported by my charger refresh/capacity check function.PS. I have some Duracell pre-charged 1900 mAh AA cells that are made in Japan. These are reported to be Eneloops with a Duracell wrapper.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2021, 07:23:34 pm
content: I use alkaline AA and AAA cells for the lowest drain devices or devices that I use very rarely like remotes. Everything else, which amounts to my GPS, carry flashlight, calculator, and camera, gets 4th generation Eneloops. When I was using a wireless mouse and keyboard, those got Eneloops also.My current set of Eneloops were purchased in July of 2017 and my battery charger and analyzer shows that they are doing fine with better than 90% capacity remaining. My previous set lasted at least 10 years.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2021, 05:09:08 pm
content: In Australia you really can't beat IKEA LADDA. They just released a new line (blue-green in colour) which is much cheaper than the old one, reports say they're still made in Japan. At something like $1.50-$2 per cell I put them in literally everything I can.There is only one battery factory in Japan that makes low discharge NiMH rechargeable cells, so if you're out shopping and see "made in Japan" then you know it's made by FDK. (long story short Sanyo were forced to sell their factory to preserve competition)

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2021, 07:42:43 pm
content: Duracells have leaked so badly for so many years, it's cheaper to use LSD batteries.Ikea summer sale was under $1 each for (white) Ladda rechargeables, so I loaded up. The new green Ladda are lower capacity.They're not the same as Eneloops for charge and discharge behavior. All NiMh I've had need a "top up" charge to 1.5Vpc for some reason or they just go lazy if you never take the end of charge voltage up there.I can't find Eneloops to buy without the *@W#%&$@ free charger so I have way too many of those, and they are so slow.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2021, 08:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on July 15, 2021, 07:42:43 pmThat's an excellent price. I'm assuming that sale is over?I don't live close to Ikea, but I see they have 1900 mAh package of 4 for $5 CAD. If they are made in Japan (it's not obvious from the photos) and lsd, that's still a good everyday price vs throwaway alkalines. Charge them 5 times and you get your money back. I'm using 30 cents for your standard Costco AA cell.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2021, 09:09:52 pm
content: New color ones are made in Japan according tohttps://forums.redflagdeals.com/ikea-ladda-aa-aaa-3-99-4pack-rechargeable-batteries-kvarts-chargers-regular-batteries-50-off-new-ladda-5-pack-2468570/37/#p34608743The above thread mentions it on sale for $4 CAD for a 4 pack 2450mAh AA cells. That's a smoking deal.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2021, 11:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: SteveyG on July 14, 2021, 09:42:08 amIf you got them on eBay up until a few years ago, they might have been fake Eneloops coming from the Chinese side. It appears those sold now are legit, but you can never be sure.For other batteries, most of those sold are from con artists who quote ridiculously high capacities. About 5 years ago I bought maybe 20 different type of batteries from different eBay vendors. None of them except one had the mAh capacity they stated. The one was bought from an Australian vendor who guaranteed the capacity, of course at a higher price.I have never had problems with genuine Eneloops. From first hand experience, Ikea's Ladda are excellent batteries too.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2021, 12:04:31 am
content: Another fraud out there is portable USB battery storage. The manufacturers deceive the public with their mAh ratings. Almost all of them, according to a friend who tested a range of these devices.They will state, for example 10000 mAh. It might be... at 3.7V! But the output voltage is 5V for USB, not 3.7V. If it was 10000 mAh at 3.7V, it is going to be roughly 7000mAh at 5V assuming 95% DC-DC converter boost efficiency. The manufacturers are liars and are snake oil salesmen.eBay is full of outrageous battery capacity claims. Here is one snake oil salesman right here in Melbourne...https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203517054603?

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2021, 01:17:38 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on July 15, 2021, 11:48:38 pmYep, fakes.https://eneloop101.com/batteries/real-or-fake/I always bought mine Eneloops or its other branded variations from brick mortar stores.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2021, 01:25:40 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on July 16, 2021, 12:04:31 amThe same applies to 18650 cells sold on Amazon. I have no idea which ones have truthful specifications.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2021, 03:46:16 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 16, 2021, 01:25:40 am18650 specs are pretty dodgy. One of the mains powered chargers I received with the dodgy batteries had the active and neutral pins twisted (with pliers?) to match the Australian mains socket, damaging the plastic case. They had no safety insulator sleeve on the pins either. The pins were also too thin, so the charger would easily fall out of the socket or make poor contact. Yet it had a CE and RCM marking. Made and sold by sub-morons.I remember in the late 80's boom boxes being advertised with "20,000 mW PMPO!" and that was from known brands such as Sharp and Panasonic. If boom boxes were sold on eBay today, it would be "20,000,000 WATTS PMPO-LS!"(Footnote... PMPO-LS: Peak Music Power Out when directly hit by a Lighting Strike to the antenna, in which case warranty is void.)

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2021, 06:54:24 am
content: More recently, I've been conducting myself with the utmost of Western laziness.Even better, connect it to a power pass through usb battery, rather than the regular usb charger. Select the correct voltage and you're good to go.https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/274464307089?var=574613242541

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2021, 01:14:41 am
content: I had small requirements once and I have been let down too many times by these cheapo alien faced chargers that that charge 2 batteries in series and tell me bugger about anything when the lights goes out.So I brought a Conrad/Voltcraft Charge Manager CM2020 in 2006 and another in 2012, with Energizers (don't hold charge for a week), then Ansmann (near enought a months charge) and work fines with the Eneloops I brought in 2018 which seems about the same discharge as their rated capacity. I have a couple of SkyRC+ for the Lithium 18650 batteries but the CM2020 seems to be perform a lot better with the AA/AAA's and doesn't seems to heat up the batteries as it does with the SKYRC at the same charge rate but I think they may charge them differently. Very happy with them and had no issues apart from changing the fan in one of them.For a low requirement charger I'd recommend one that will charge/discharge or cycle and display the information rather than display a lousy light or percent so you know which ones are good when they leave the charger like this one:https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/253397110077I'd have some packs of Duracell Industrial/Procell AA's and AAA's which I have not seen leak yet for things that require 1.5v and don't work too well under that.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2021, 03:38:31 am
content: Eneloops for over a decade. They self-discharge at about eh same rate as alkalines (OK, not quite that good, but close). I haven't bought alkalines since. No problems.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2021, 12:34:46 am
content: In terms of actual performance the disposable ones are better due to lack of self discharge for low discharge things like remotes, but in terms of being environmentally conscious, and saving money, the rechargeables are better.I have a bunch of rechargeables on hand and once in a while I just put them on the charger so they're ready to go. Which reminds me it's been a while since I've done it. Should do it now.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2021, 01:01:48 pm
content: I started using rechargeable batteries in everything that doesn't get lost or goes hiding (such as kids toys) for a very long time. Wireless keyboards and mice, remote controls, flash lights, cameras, RC remote, etc. My preferred ones were Powerex (always bought on sale from Canada Computers) for high current applications such as flash lights, and Eneloop for low discharge such as remote controls and wireless mice. One annoying thing about Powerex is that any drop or shock, would increase the self discharge current ten folds. Maybe being high capacity, the separator is very thin and it gets damaged by shock.Once I discovered Ikea Ladda, I was super happy with them and I started replacing Powerex ones everywhere. Eneloops still go strong in all the devices I put them but I don't buy new anymore.I jut bought two sets of the new Ikea Ladda model (green-ish with white text) and they seem to be the same product as the old ones (white with black text). The price is $8.99 CAD, plus 13% HST is $10.16, that makes it $2.54 a piece. Not bad at all!They have the same weight, size, perfectly identical voltage out of the box, etc. I expect to have the same low self discharge but that's TBD.I can see the package being cheaper, they are packed in paper rather than in plastic blisters, but I don't know why they changed the colors, maybe it's just a commercial gimmick.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 04:10:58 am
content: So I ended up buying some Energiser "Ultimate Lithium" AA's for my keyboard and mouse.They work great in the mouse but the keyboard refuses to power on. Measuring the voltage, the new lithium batteries measure 1.8 volts each, which seems quite high. I'm guessing the keyboard is expecting a maximum of around 3 volts, not 3.6?

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 05:28:56 am
content: Yeah the lithium AAs are a bit high in voltage compared to a regular alkaline AA. Usually products don't care and work fine, but there are exeptions. Tho battery charge indicators will be wrong.For example my Agilent handheld DMM has a setting for selecting lithium batteries, so that the battery gauge icon in the corner shows the correct charge remaining (It just looks at open circuit voltage, so the voltage curve is important). But this is a very rare feature on products.Tho even normal AAs are a bit higher than 1.5V when brand new but quickly drop back down. You might be able to discharge those lithium in the mouse and swap them over into the keyboard once there voltage dropped enugh. Or open up the keyboard and add a diode in series with the battery to drop the extra 0.6V

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 05:40:32 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 22, 2021, 04:10:58 amAlso watch using the Lithium's in multimeters. There was a chunk of discussion in one of the 121GW threads in particular.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 10:47:59 am
content: The main issue is that rechargeable batteries have a lower cell voltage (1.2V for NICD/NIMH, 1.4V for Eneloops) than primary ones (1.5-1.6V) and most products have their "battery status" detection set up for the latter.That's why Eneloops are much better in practice. But most products still end up wasting much of their capacity, by premature "empty battery" detection.If somebody came up with a rechargeable battery which is 1.5V they would clean up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 10:58:12 am
content: I use the black Eneloop Pro's and they are great. But because they are so expensive I don't use them in long life stuff like remote controls.I just throw alkalines in those and hope they don't leak. But I've found that only the stuff that is left and forgotten that leak, not stuff used daily like remotes.For a charger I use a Nitecore UM4

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 11:05:05 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 22, 2021, 04:10:58 amYep, not that uncommon. Usually a lowish load for a few minutes will take the edge off the fresh peak voltage.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 07:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 22, 2021, 10:58:12 amIf black Eneloop Pro is 2550 mAh and you are willing to accept a small drop in capacity, Ikea Ladda 2450 mAh AA are listed for $10 Aussie dollars for pack of 4 as perhttps://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/ladda-rechargeable-battery-hr06-aa-1-2v-50504692/Just make sure they say "Made in Japan" on the packaging as some of the pictures earlier in this thread has shown.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2021, 08:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 22, 2021, 07:17:15 pmThat's what I bought and they are made in Japan.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 07:39:39 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 22, 2021, 11:05:05 amI put the batteries that I installed in my mouse into my keyboard (they were measuring about 1.7v each) and they work fine.Looks like the over-voltage cut-off for Lenovo wireless keyboards is just over 3.4 volts.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 08:25:01 am
content: Quote from: Miti on July 21, 2021, 01:01:48 pmIt seems that there are currently two types of LADDA AA rechargeable batteries available at Ikea Australia.Ikea article number 703.038.76 - LADDA AA 1.2v 2450mAh (white packaging) - AUD$14.99/4 packIkea article number 505.046.92 - LADDA AA 1.2v 2450mAh (greenish packaging) - AUD$10.00/4 packIt looks like 703.038.76 are being phased out and will be unavailable soon and a similar thing is happening with the AAA size, except that the new ones are 750mAh whereas the older style was 900mAh.On the older type, Ikea claim a life time of "approx. 5 years", whereas on the newer type, they've removed all references to life time.I called Ikea and they couldn't tell me anything more, including where they were manufactured. Maybe someone else is able to confirm?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 11:01:57 am
content: Made in Japan. Same for the white AAA

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 11:08:22 am
content: I don't really see the issue with cost of Eneloop or equivalent batteries. While they may cost 10x as much as the cheapest batteries, all you have to do is get 10 recharge cycles from them to break even. And most are rated for many, many more than that.Amazon Basics AA - 48 for $15 = 32 cents each, one time usePanasonic Eneloop AA - 8 for $20 = $2.50 each, recharge up to 2100 times.Even if you only get 1% of max rated cycles they're cheaper.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 12:35:18 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 23, 2021, 08:25:01 amI can't buy them yet for another few weeks (backorder still), but I think some people on other forums have confirmed they are made in Japan.There are generally two types of low self discharge chemistry, "high cap" (~2450/900 mAh for AA/AAA, AKA eneloop pro) or normal (~1900/750mAh AA/AAA, normal eneloop).You will see 500 cycles advertised for high capacity variants, and 2100 for normal capacity.There is a much lower capacity one, 1000mAh for AA size, those are only good for things like wireless gaming mice because they're a bit lighter (AA is 10g lighter than the high cap variant). You'd be surprised on how much a few grams can matter for a mouse.Forget the lofty 500/2100 advertised cycles, no one charges like that in the real world (majority of charge cycles being 0.25C/3Hr 10 mins for the actual rated test). They are doing partial cycles which will dramatically increase cycle life, whereas charging normally by time for a dumb charger, or -delta voltage tends to get the cells a little hot.You'll see smarter chargers terminate at a set voltage with a bit of a top up trickle for a nice balance of charging speed without overcharging.Ughh this is from memory, but if you use and abuse the cells then you'll get something like ~50 cycles for high cap, and ~300 for normal capacity cells. After that the internal impedance is too high for extreme discharge applications, so they will spend the rest of time in remote duty after that.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 10:48:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 23, 2021, 11:01:57 amWell spotted!

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2021, 11:21:57 pm
content: And these are the new models. Still made in Japan.

author: cortex_m0
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 12:44:28 am
content: Quote from: deadlylover on July 23, 2021, 12:35:18 pmWhat is "use and abuse" in your experience? The only consumer electronics where I've observed poor performance from low discharge NIMH batteries was a digital camera that probably had the under voltage lockout set too low for NiMH. You'd get like 6 photos from a freshly charged set.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 02:04:09 am
content: Project Farm Which AA Rechargeable Battery is Best after 1 Year? Let's find out! Eneloop, Duracell, Amazon, EBLHe measures internal resistance in this video.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 02:32:12 am
content: Quote from: cortex_m0 on July 24, 2021, 12:44:28 amDeep discharges in flashlight applications. I think camera flashes were another killer.For better or worse, lots of equipment struggle to work below say 1.1V or 1.0V per cell anyway.So I think realistically we can get a more reasonable ~100-150 cycles out of the high capacity variants, but I wanted people to know that there are certainly use cases where you can only get ~50 cycles before the cells start dropping like flies (which is ten percent of the advertised claims, I used to see this a lot on the flashlight enthusiast forums).You can find some cycle testing onaacycler.com.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 03:05:29 am
content: I finally found my first set of AA Eneloops. They are 10+ years old. Initially, there were used in a D cell sized shell so I could use them in a D cell battery powered device. It was used for 8 months daily and recharged to full daily.Afterward, the set went into a monitoring/listening device for about 3.5 years. It was used daily, last about 12 hours and then recharged to full daily. So it's easily got over 1,500 cycles, maybe even 2,000, but I will be conservative and say 1,500 cycles. The discharge rate for this set is basically constant with little to no spikes or high current demands.My charger is a BT-C700 and using the quick test function to measure internal resistance just now, I get 113 and 97 for the initial set. On a set of random 5+ year old Eneloops with unknown cycles, I get 53 and 54. On a set of 11 year old Energizer non lsd 2300 mAh, I get 950 and 979.The last time I ran a capacity measurement on this initial set, I think it was still close to 1900mAh.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 03:09:12 am
content: It was something we figured out back in the early days of NiMh and R/C receiver packs AA's universally SUCK for impedance including Enerloops in higher draw applications. The initial Enerloops were also very temperature sensitive on that front and even near freezing the voltage losses were actually terminal for a few R/C planes as the digital servos loaded up the packs. The higher capacity cells were just a no go for anything needing a bit of performance.The Fix was generally to get out of AA's and go back to bigger framed Sanyo or Panasonic cells to drop the impedance.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 05:58:34 am
content: I started buying Eneloops at least 10 years ago and have also bought some of the Japan made Amazon LSD NiMH and some later ones that turned out to be made in China. The eneloops are all still holding up great, and most of the Amazon cells are too. I have had a couple of those get damaged in multi-cell devices where one cell went dead faster and got reverse charged slightly by the other cells. I haven't bought disposable AA/AAA cells in quite a few years now though I've ended up with enough free ones that I still have them in some remote controls. A significant advantage of a good quality NiMH cell is they rarely leak. In fact I don't think I've ever had one leak and I cannot say that about alkaline.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 07:35:58 am
content: Quote from: deadlylover on July 24, 2021, 02:32:12 amIt is said that the biggest killer of NiCd and NiMH cells is polarity reversal, which is what happens when one cell is fully discharged and other cells in series keep forcing current through it, initiating abnormal electrochemical processes which charge the cell in reverse.This trivially happens in "dumb" loads like incandescent flashlights and power tools, but anything with a boost converter in it (LED lights, camera flashes) can do it too. Ideally, such devices should be equipped with undervoltage shutdown.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 04:28:36 pm
content: Most NiCd and NiMH failures I have had were due to shorts through the separator. In the past the solution with NiCd cells was to use low leakage/high temperature cells which use a thicker and better separator. After my first batch of normal NiMH cells failed due to shorts after only a couple years, I guessed that low leakage NiMH cells would display the same advantage and as far as I can tell, they do.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2021, 04:47:51 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 24, 2021, 02:04:09 amI just watched the video. I'm completely sold out to Ikea Ladda...

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2021, 07:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 24, 2021, 03:05:29 amRan discharge capacity test yesterday on the two cells above. I get 1894 and 1869 mAh. Not bad after 10+ years and > 1500 cycles.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 03:25:46 am
content: I guess this brings me to my next question... can anyone recommend a good quality smart charger? Ideally it should support the usual sizes at least (AA, AAA) but 9 volt and C size would be a "nice to have".It should also have a discharge mode and ability to evaluate life/capacity.I'd like it to be a "table top" model, rather than those big chunky plug-in/wall-wart types.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 05:28:10 am
content: I use one of these for all my batteries:http://www.liito-kala.com/page92?product_id=6Yes it is chinese, but it is a well known chinese brand (So watch out for counterfit fakes of it). But it is cheap and works well. Takes all the popular battery types and auto detects the chemistry. It has adjustable charging current, measures the charge time and capacity along with cell internal resistance (tho that last feature doesn't seam all that accurate for me). It also runs from 12V so it fits on a lot of common 12V power adapters and includes a cigarette socket cable. It also has modes for testing capacity of a battery where it puts it trough a full cycle, tho that feature is a bit slow since it does not have active cooling, so it can't discharge very fast.Only thing to watch out for is to not leave batteries inside it when it is disconnected from power. This makes it go into battery bank mode where it uses the power from the batteries to power that 5V USB socket, so it can drain the batteries over a long period.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 11:13:14 am
content: I have this one and I’m happy with it:https://mahaenergy.com/mh-c9000/

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 02:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 30, 2021, 03:25:46 amI have a now discontinued MH-C9000 which works well enough but after a couple years of light use, the aluminum electrolytic capacitors needed to be replaced. This is not the first time I have had to do this and I suspect this is a common problem on all similar chargers.It has a poorly designed user interface which apparently the MH-C9000PRO which replaced it has fixed.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 04:34:37 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 30, 2021, 02:58:55 pmReally, how did you figure out the caps are bad? Did it show some signs or you just opened it? Mine still works well for many years but now you made me worry.The user interface looks identical to me on the pro.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 05:17:29 pm
content: I have a LaCrosse BC-900 charger that I've been pretty happy with. A major downside is it only handles AA and AAA cells although I've used clip leads and magnets to connect it to larger cells.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 01:07:22 am
content: Quote from: james_s on July 30, 2021, 05:17:29 pmI have this model as well but I can’t recommend it. It cooked my batteries. Maha never does it.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 01:23:56 am
content: Not a fully recommended product as I have only used it 5 or 6 times and it lives in the truck for on the road useeBay auction: #154503330184but fairly well put together for the price point and independent charging of each cell. Cells came off well charged and not hot so something was working properly

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 05:06:40 am
content: Great resource here by HKJ, one of us.I'm still using the Maha C9000 from a decade ago, so I don't know what's good value here in Australia. My next charger might be the SkyRC MC3000.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 05:45:25 am
content: Quote from: Miti on July 31, 2021, 01:07:22 amAny idea what happened? I've been using mine regularly for about 10 years, a friend of mine has the same charger that he bought a few months earlier, so far I've never had a problem with it.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 11:34:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on July 31, 2021, 05:45:25 amI think it doesn’t detect the end of change properly. The batteries are very hot at the end of charge and they get damaged. With Maha, the batteries are reasonably warm at the end of charge.Edit: On the other hand, the maximum current is higher than what you set. It doesn’t have a real current control but rather a duty cycle control. The average current may be what you set, but the peak is much higher. Maha has four big inductors which make four separate controllable current sources, I guess. What you set is what you get. That’s TBD though, I haven’t checked.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 06:48:29 pm
content: I only use eneloops for AA/AAA. They never leak and destroy whatever I put them in. Everything else is secondary.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 09:30:39 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on July 31, 2021, 11:34:12 amInteresting, I've never actually measured the current, I just took its word for it. Seems to work fine for me though, I have Eneloops that are over 10 years old that have always been charged in it. I typically use 200 or 500mA though, I have enough batteries that I'm rarely in a rush.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 10:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on July 30, 2021, 04:34:37 pmThe unit started having problems detecting battery state and end of charge. After I pulled it apart, I saw the aluminum electrolytic capacitors and immediately suspected them. Testing on my impedance bridge revealed low capacitance and high dissipation indicating significant degradation. I replaced them with 40+ year old dry tantalum capacitors.QuoteThe problem with the MH-C9000 is that you have to enter the parameters like charge current every time for each battery. The MH-C9000PRO apparently remembers the last entered parameters.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2021, 01:26:00 am
content: Quote from: james_s on July 31, 2021, 09:30:39 pmIt doesn’t matter if you select 200 or 500mA. You’ll get pulses of 1A IIRC with different duty cycles.