Choosing between Fluke 179/177 vs Keysight U1242C vs Fluke 87V? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 02:16:01 pm
content: Hi everyone,I am looking for new multimeter. My old Mastech MY68 has been give up. So I would like to get a new, good, precise and reliable handheld multimeter.Now I am trying to choose between Fluke 179/177 or Keysight U1242C. Ok, Fluke is Fluke: minimum functions, maximum price, reliability etc. But what about Keysight? There are not so much detailed info on internet about Keysight's...The DMM will be use for general & automotive applications mainly.By other hand I saw brand new Fluke 87V for 280...300€ on ebay... The new one from reliable source in Germany costs 390...400€, VAT19% included.Therefore I have a couple of questions:1) what is your advice for "best DMM in the world" on budget of the 200...300€?2) what DMM do you choose from those: Fluke 179/177, Keysight U1242C, Fluke 87V?3) How safe buying a "brand new" Fluke on ebay is? What a common issues would be?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 02:29:37 pm
content: Quote from: Al75 on December 08, 2018, 02:16:01 pmFor electronics:1) what is your advice for "best DMM in the world" on budget of the 200...300€?Brymen 869S2) what DMM do you choose from those: Fluke 179/177, Keysight U1242C, Fluke 87V?If only those options and if you could get really good 179, than F179. Otherwise see No 1.3) How safe buying a "brand new" Fluke on ebay is? What a common issues would be?No common issues. Biggest problem is abuse or defective/damaged unit. If you get one that wasn't damaged it will be pretty much perfect. But you never know.If you want safe/accurate meter, repair needs experience and tools. Not for beginners.

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 09:08:35 pm
content: Found a pretty nice offer on ebay. Seller saying that Fluke 87V new, safe and sound. All working, no changed parts. 100% positive seller's rating. Agree for full refund if there issues reveals.

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 08:56:47 pm
content: Any else opinions?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 09:01:42 pm
content: Go for the 87V if you can. I had a U1241C and I don't rate it anywhere as good as the 87V.I paid around €150 equivalent for my 87V though new with cal cert but I was lucky as hell.Edit: here was my YouTube review of the two comparing out of the box hold feature. Very short and to the point.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 09:14:41 pm
content: Oh, what was wrong with your U1241C?? Is there a problem withHoldfunction?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 09:27:02 pm
content: I like my BM829S.https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOOMDMWC5v91DynTNsacOdhD2z0NdLvhGgniEyp-0ai8YjG3wpgyQpdN-z1d8MOww?key=Y2w3Q3lacVkwTUpzUkctR1NCLW9PbUMxdFhRLXRRI am not sure if it is best for the price, but I do like the LoZ / AutoCheck function.Keysight DMMs should be OK, but I have never used any.Fluke 87V might not have a good overvoltage protection.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/3025/Please ask the forum member namedjoeqsmith.But I like the Fluke 87V's AutoHold feature.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 09:31:04 pm
content: I used a Fluke 289 in my previous work. I was quite happy with that.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 09:45:03 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 09, 2018, 09:14:41 pmJust the auto hold feature is crap. You can configure it in one of the menus so it is less crap but it's still nowhere near as good as the Fluke which just works. That's what you're paying for.I have a BM867S as well. That's pretty good. But no autohold!Most of the time I use one of my Fluke 8010A units however.

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 10:07:42 pm
content: Data transfer to PC in U1242C seems pretty interesting feature to me. How actual it is in practice? Fluke has it on 287/289 only. It is out of my bill.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 10:34:19 pm
content: I didn't use the keysight software because my platform of choice is MacOS X so there is no software! It's a Prolific USB serial adapter with IR port. It uses undocumented but standard SCPI commands to talk to it so you can bodge up your own stuff easy enough:It is definitely good for PC connectivity. The irritating general purpose use cases though are a bit of a pain. I use automation perhaps once a year at the moment so I just don't need it. Compromise for me was better with the 87V. I have bought a BM867s and will buy the USB-IR cable for that when I need to do some automation next time.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 10:40:20 pm
content: In my opinion, in terms of features the order is: 87V > U1242C > 179.In terms of robustness, I think the 87V and the 179 (which I had) are equivalent. I have other models from Keysight and you can tell they are a notch below.I liked my 179 and it excels at what it does, but it is a basic meter.I don't know the U1242C autohold but, if it is similar to the other U1282A and U1273A and configurable via a setup menu, it is excellent.If you need connectivity, Keysight has pretty reasonably priced adapters and the software is free of charge. The other alternative pointed by Sinisa, the Brymen BM867, also has this feature.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 10:44:13 pm
content: The U124xC stuff is configurable by set up but I couldn't get it to work anywhere as near as well as the default configuration on the 87V. The video I posted earlier was an argument in favour of sensible defaults

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 09:31:30 am
content: I heard about that Fluke 87V is discontinued. Is it true?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 10:13:17 am
content: Don't think so. All major suppliers list it as current line.

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:09:55 am
content: I own quite a few multimetersso here is my experienceFK87V - that one is OK for electricians , it is doing only VERY, VERY basic staff, it is USELESS for several BASIC electronic mesurements which are needed even for simple repairs like FM tunner repair. If I would do something with car - I will take FK87V, but not for electronics, even a cheap Unit-y multimeter is sometime a better choice than FK87V. FK87V is also quite BAD with measuring LOW values like for small current.U1242C - that one has only 10000 digits therefore useless for plenty of electronic tasks/repairs, even worst that FK87V.Fluke 179/177 - that one is also for electricians, almost useless for electronics.BM869S - that one is quite OK . I would only complain small rotary switch, which is hard to switch, strange location of bargraph at very, very botom anf not the best backlight. I take from my shelf something worst with meaurement than BW869S because this anoing rotary switch/backlight.

author: mzacharias
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:24:00 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 09, 2018, 09:31:04 pmThat was Joe's experience with ONE sample. Another 87V did not exhibit this, and his original passed the tests once repaired. He never did find out why the first one failed the way it did.Maybe simply a defective component?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:39:50 am
content: Quote from: MiroS on December 10, 2018, 11:09:55 amNot sure what you're doing specifically but I'm using mine for electronics repair (specialist test gear) and RF / transmitter design. The thing is totally bomb proof, does mV/uA DC measurements perfectly fine and does everything fast and reliably. Count is fine for most tasks. It's absolutely spot on for ALL purposes which is the advantage of the thing. I can be sitting there measuring leakage one minute, then fixing the dryer the next minute. There's a huge amount of value in that.As I said earlier I use one of my Fluke 8010A units, which is far lesser specified meter but incredibly convenient.I have a BM867S and the 87V is a way better meter for every day use.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:48:45 am
content: The new-ish Brymen BM839 is designed to compete directly with the Fluke 87V, I have one on my bench now for evaluation (possible rebadge), EU$169 from Welectron.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:54:34 am
content: Quote from: MiroS on December 10, 2018, 11:09:55 amNothing at all wrong with a 10000 digit meter.If you need more resolution, sure, buy more, but it's hardly "useless"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:55:14 am
content: Quote from: Al75 on December 10, 2018, 09:31:30 amNo way they would discontinue their highest selling meter.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 03:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 10, 2018, 11:48:45 amI am not sure why I would buy a BM839 instead of BM869s, if I want a high resolution. Someone might like that it is powered by 4 AA cells.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 03:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: MiroS on December 10, 2018, 11:09:55 amYes, the switch could be bigger. I think that most Flukes have a better rotary switch. But I am quite happy with my BM829S.

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 07:52:03 pm
content: How safe is buy "brand new" Fluke 87V on EbayUK for ~300€? Seller reputation looks good, by reviews sold Flukes before.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 08:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 10, 2018, 11:48:45 amThey will be very successful if they keep Brymen's excellent feature that recalls prior settings - something the 87V lacks by defaulting to AC.Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 10, 2018, 03:33:17 pmTCO could be significant favourable for Brymen depending on the country: a 9V battery can have a significantly higher cost when compared to AAs - not to mention the longer lifespan.Obviously that 3 year warranty is something that pales in comparison to Fluke's lifetime.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 08:59:53 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 10, 2018, 11:39:50 amI personally agree with MiroS. I find BM869S much better for electronics use. I had 87V and sold it after I purchased BM869S.F87V is industry standard for electricians and industrial environments. For electronics,Fluke 287/9 is more to the point.Best Fluke for electronics was F189.F87V only function that some people cannot live without is AutoHold. I never use it, it's too slow for me. Pretty much tried it and never used it again.I'm so used to normal probe/look technique that is same for the scope and the meter.It is personal, and heavily depends on what are your habits and process.Regards,

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 09:24:34 pm
content: Not a problem for me, butBrymen has no specified drop resistance.Fluke 87V is 1m drop resistant. I think that its input jacks are more durable than those on Brymen.Brymen also does not have a good (magnetic) hanger. But i do not need that.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 10:23:22 pm
content: U1241C wins hands down here. It has 3m drop and IP67. Thing is indestructible.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:03:22 pm
content: It is similar to the U1282A then - although I would never deliberately test this (my disposable income for meters is not that high)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 10, 2018, 03:33:17 pmThe idea is that if you are considering the Fluke 87V then the BM839 is a direct competitor with the same 20,000 resolution at much lower price.That's what Brymen released it for, to compete directly with the 87V.I'm having a hard time seeing how it would fit into the retail pricing structure though. Sure it's cheaper than the 869, but notthatmuch cheaper.There is also a BM836 but you lose the temp probe which kinda sucks. If the BM839 was the same wholesale price as the BM836 then I think it might sell pretty well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:19:08 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on December 10, 2018, 08:34:55 pmFunny thing about that, I implemented the same feature on the 121GW meter and I get a lot of complaints about it

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 11:28:09 pm
content: Yeah that annoys the crap out of me in my BM867S.You have to work out what state it is in to get it into the state that you need. That means you have to use your brain instead of muscle memory. Slows you down.However 87V defaulting to AC is a PITA when I mostly do DC measurements.Perhaps that’s why I reach for the 8010A so much.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 12:23:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 10, 2018, 11:19:08 pmThe question is are the people complaining the majority or not. Personally, I really like that feature on the Brymen meters. I guess you could start a poll.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 12:30:47 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 11, 2018, 12:23:56 amI agree on all three counts.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 12:39:27 am
content: Quote from: mzacharias on December 10, 2018, 11:24:00 amEven that doesn't make a lot of sense in the way it was damaged. Maybe something on the board. See my last post if interested:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/3050/I did look at the BM839. It's not a bad meter. It's very robust like every other Brymen product I have looked at, unlike a lot of that cheap crap being sold. I had that meter up at 12KV before it finally went. There are not many meters that have survived that sort of punishment.Having used and abused the 869s for a few years now, with their basic feature set and low cost, I didn't see the point. I would rather spend the extra and get the 869s. It's just a nice basic meter for my electronics hobby. We all have different requirements. My feelings wouldn't be hurt if you instead went with a free Harbor Freight meter. Buy the best tool for YOUR needs.Meters never get treated very well in my reviews.https://youtu.be/bNzd5wo6FWU

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 09:37:06 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 09, 2018, 09:45:03 pmThe BM867S has Hold but not Auto-Hold as you say. It does has a Rec mode which updates automatically the Max, Min and Ave, would this perform the Auto function you want?I just got the BM867S and like you am impressed by its performance!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 09:42:50 am
content: Unfortunately no. When I am using auto hold I want it to sample the voltage at a point and take a reading. Then I can go hands free and write it down without having to remember it etc. The grab the probes and do another reading and do the same etc. A recent thing I did was binning over 100 diodes for matching. This was a bit laborious but autohold shaved about 20% off the job as it was just wired into the test jig. Press the test button (push to make, applies power to current source), write it down, remove the diode, new one in, press test button again etc. Because it dropped to zero in that window and then back up to the diode drop then fluke would pick up the changes. I didn't have to touch the meter once and I could record the diode voltage with my right hand while I was pulling the diode with the left hand.Min/max/average is for looking at voltage trends so for example if you have something that is dropping out periodically you can get an idea of how often with the average and what to with the min etc.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 09:57:19 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 11, 2018, 09:42:50 amSorry for offtopbut what is diode matching?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:10:25 am
content: Mostly worth ignoring. Special case when a cheap ass like me doesn't want to pay lots of money for some minicircuits RF mixers. So you take 4x 1n4148's and match them for close forward voltage by applying 1mA through them and measuring the voltage drop. When you get 4 close, build a mixer with it. Close tolerance is required because the characteristics of the mixer are partially defined by the quality of the diode match.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:15:47 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 11, 2018, 10:10:25 amWOWamazing

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:22:00 am
content: Way off topic but video here:

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 01:25:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 10, 2018, 11:19:08 pmPeople are weird.Quote from: bd139 on December 10, 2018, 11:28:09 pmTo me muscle memory is a recipe for disaster - perhaps because I work on medium/high power systems (relative to electronics, not power distribution) and also with some very expensive boards.

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 02:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 10, 2018, 11:54:34 amDave, sure nothing wrong with 10000, but for electronics I wolud say 50000 is minimum. Those days even 10000 for car electrician it may be too short, eg. for some AMG car battery charging circuit 15.000 and 15.002V makes a significant difference ... which is clearly out of that range not mentioning plenty of typical examples from electronics world.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:55:25 pm
content: Quote from: MiroS on December 11, 2018, 02:33:00 pmTry measuring say 6V with your 50,000 count meter, oops, it's now no better than that 10,000 count meter. Both show 6.000

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 12:21:01 am
content: Any opinion onAppaDMMs? They should be OK, but they are not so popular on this forum. I have never used any.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 01:50:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2018, 10:55:25 pmI agree with others; to say 10000 is useless is an exaggeration; countless things can be done in electronics with the ICL7106 or 6000 counts.Where is the limit then? My donkey's years old BM857 has a 500000 count mode that is excellent for battery charging trends which, coupled with its datalogging, makes quite an excellent solution for averyspecific application. A much wider range of electronics applications exist that can benefit from lesser counts.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 02:41:15 am
content: What's all this count rubbish? I started with a VTVM then my trusty Radio Shack analog meter. The free HF meter would have been a big step up.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 04:29:34 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 12, 2018, 12:21:01 amI scored an unloved APPA 99III Multimeter a while back and I would say it fits somewhere between a Fluke 117 and Fluke 87V in features and performance.It hasn't got the 87V AC bandwidth but pretty much does everything else, and the compared readings agree. The APPA cable/probes are hard to beat and a lot better than the bog standard Fluke leads.FWIW to the original poster upstairs: A Fluke 87V, 87-111 and original 87 are a great all rounder meter and won't disappoint. Easy to use and look the business tooCoupled with any reasonable TRMS AC+DC clamp meter with some DMM features on board, you're pretty well covered for many/most scenarios.Just keep them away from bug zappers and barbeque startersor string together nine x 10meg resistors in series with the positive lead as I do for those special HV low current DC occasionsIt might set you back a dollar or two, still cheaper that taking out a pricey multimeter.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 06:24:47 am
content: On question of count, it really depends how much resolution you really need and what you do..If you do lot of measurements at 12V than 2xx..... is better than 1xx.... if you do 24V than 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 as first digit will be better.Or it might not be important, because you really don't need 8 decimal places of detail...Long scale in handhelds is also a bit of suspicious. Most of them measure down to microvolts and milliohms, where you already have errors from cabling, thermals, external fields...Little nuggets from Fluke calibration manual for F87/89 IV series:".. Because of capacitive coupling, readings will be affected by movement of the leads oroperator. Put fingers on UP button and wait for display reading to settle before pushing... Wait at least 60 seconds for source and meter to settle before recording reading... Using Relative Mode (REL) to zero residual reading (apply 0 Ω and allow UUT to settle for 45 seconds beforepushing REL). "All that to achieve 4.5 digits meter specs. So measuring on car, in 10°C (or 45°C in summer) to some precision would be questionable to more than first few digits.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 03:57:57 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 12, 2018, 02:41:15 amYou started fancy there. Mine was an ICE Supertester 680R 20kΩ/V.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 04:06:34 pm
content: Pah you lot and your fancy meters. Mine had 2 entire KΩ per volt.If you put it inside a battery transistor radio the battery would go flat on the radio before you got a reading. It could measure frequency though by counting the puffs of smoke when you put it on the mains

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 05:14:52 pm
content: Hahaha! Gotta love the accuracy: "This battery is still new, it reads 1.5V! No, wait... 1.4... 1.3... "

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 05:15:12 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 12, 2018, 04:06:34 pmLOL puffs of smoke....I guess I had the fancy one...It's missing a gun turret to make it a tank. And by carrying it around you got a daily workout too....But it was 50k/V, and was quite advanced. And it is still in spec...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 05:30:28 pm
content: I watched Dave's interview with the old man where he had rolled his own analog meter.One of the first things I ever made with a microcontroller was a power supply. I used a VFD out or some sort of timer for the display. It could display current and voltage using an 8-bit SAR ADC. That was about as close as I got to making my own meter. Even the basic panel meters they give away for a couple of bucks would far exceed the performance.

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 06:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2018, 10:55:25 pmWell 6V is not 15V right ? Higher voltage for power devices and very precise control over low voltage. it seems to be now constant trend .

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 06:27:46 pm
content: You are right. Sometimes 10K counts just won't cut it and you need to pull out a bigger hammer. Getting ready to make some measurements and testing the jig with an IET standard.Another home made AC volt meter. It makes me want to roll my own. I bet I could improve on my first VA meter.https://youtu.be/pikTXYkwvP4

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2018, 12:03:37 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on December 12, 2018, 03:57:57 pmHey, I've still got my Tandy/Radio Shack analog meter 20,000 something? ... somewhere...A big purchase back in the day, bundled with a battery checker and 25 watt soldering iron, ready for anything electronic to be fixedI'll bet it's still working (I took the battery out!) in spec, and I could use it a lot better (and safer) nowadays and get most stuff donewithout needing the digital big guns(well, just for a day to prove a point or two.. to noobs and meter snobs)

author: Al75
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2018, 08:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 12, 2018, 05:15:12 pmWoow! I had this Soviet made multimeter in my teen ages when Latvia was part of Soviet Union, yes!

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2018, 09:07:37 pm
content: I have a printed Conrad catalogue from year 2004. Fluke 179 is there! So bear in mind that it is an old product. It is only a 6000 count DMM.

author: Valver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:02:48 am
content: I was considering buying the U1242C primarily because it has an AC coupled, AC mV function. I work with audio tube amps and need to measure power supply ripple voltage. Neither the Brymen BM235 nor the UT61E that I recently bought are capable of doing this. (Edit, OK, I just saw Joeqsmith's review of the Keysight U1231A so I don't think I'll go for the U1242C,)I would prefer buying the BM869 but I am not sure whether it will do the job. I am just referring to the AC voltage reading here, not AC+DC or Dual display. Any advice would be appreciated, if not, it's probably safer to go with an AC coupled meter.Typically I need to measure between 10mvAC to 2vAC on a 500V DC supply with .01 mV resolution.Thank you kindly.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:13:01 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 15, 2018, 09:07:37 pmIf a model stays relevant this long, it''s probably fairly useful.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:07:34 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 14, 2019, 02:13:01 amYes exactly that.In this day and age we seem to have forgotten that a product can be 100% totally "done" and not need to be changed. We're being trained away from this becuase it fills the pockets of the manufacturers these days.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 04:23:43 pm
content: Hi,No need to make a brand new topic, I will just revive this one.In the last days I comparedFluke 179 and Keysight U1241C(Fluke 87V is double the price so it has no reason to be here...)Fluke Keysightbacklight y y (+flashlight)K-type probe y y (+ ambient temp on 2nd display)Datalogging n yAutohold y y (+configurable settle time)counts 6000 (6600) 10000VDC accuracy 0.09%+2 digits 0.09%+2 digitsmin-max-avg y ydelta/null n yuA meas. n yfreq. meas. y (for V and A) n ?AC BW 1KHz 2KHzautorange speed very fast averageinput protection very good good?drop-proof 1m? 3mingress protection n/a (or low) IP67price x money x - [10...20]%warranty limited lifetime 3 yearsI was planning for the next year to buy the Fluke 179 (as 2nd dmm for electronics hobby), but after seeing that the Keysight offers more than the Fluke for less money, I think I will change my mind. I need to admit that some features are not really useful for me like: flashlight, AC measurements, high-end input protection, drop-proof, IP67 ... but even without them, I still see the same winner.So is there anyone who has/had both these meters and can confirm my comparison and conclusion? or at least tell me (tell us) more about the Keysight one (user experience, bugs, robustness). The only review I've found is 2 hours long, but it's in french and there are no subtitles available

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 06:28:35 pm
content: While I don't have experience with the U1241C I do have experience with the U1272A/U1273A and a few other Keysight handhelds. I adore Keysight's desktop kit but somehow I never really liked the handheld meters. No strong dislike either, but I find myself reaching for a Fluke 179 or 87V instead to see what's really going on. The features the Flukes have are well chosen and executed. I really like the autohold feature, which I don't think any other manufacturer does as well.Initially I was very skeptical about the popularity of Fluke meters and felt they were an overpriced and underfeatured option. Then I won a cheapish 87V at an auction to sell on and was prepared to hate it but it won me over fairly quickly. I still own it and use it regularly as the daily driver. I like the 179 almost as much. My workload or preferences may differ from yours though, so your mileage may vary.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 06:59:15 pm
content: I had a 179, a U1233A and currently have a 87V, 189, U1273A and U1282A.IMO, if you intend to use the meters in a rough environment, both the 179 and the 87V win - they are solidly built and have a proven record of surviving (it is not uncommon to see beaten models of these two for sale that are still in spec). The 189 and the U1282A have a very solid feel as well, although a notch down from the other two. The U1233A and the U1273A feel a bit less solid of these but the build quality is still palpable.With regards to features, the U1241C seems to have a well round collection of features. If it has Autohold, then it would be almost the same.The U1272A/U1273A and U1281A/U1282Ahave autohold. The Keysights also win over the 189 in triggering options for datalogging, but that is another realm.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 07:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 13, 2020, 06:59:15 pmIn my experience the U1272A/U1273A autohold isn't anywhere near in the same league of those of the Flukes.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 07:44:14 pm
content: U1241C autohold is dire.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 08:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 13, 2020, 07:44:14 pmHi!Can you please do a short video about this to show us why you consider it "dire"? Or maybe a comparison video between fluke and u1241c autohold? No need to speak or explain, just measure a voltage and a resistor with each one and we should notice the difference...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 08:18:53 pm
content: I actually did one ages ago wide by side with an 87V on this but Google terminated my account after they fucked up my GSuite account. I don’t own the meter any more. I ended up hitting it. It was the worst.The hold window and threshold made it impossible to use plus it had a manual initiation required.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 08:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 13, 2020, 08:18:53 pmI was thinking of that video. Instant classic!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 08:32:25 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 13, 2020, 07:39:44 pmHow so?In my experience, the U1273A and the 87V have a fast enough Autohold with similar thresholds and both have, at times, failed to trigger an obvious discontinuity. The U1282A is the most erratic or the bundle.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 08:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: paulbt on November 13, 2020, 04:23:43 pmHave you looked at Brymen? You'll be, like....https://brymen.eu/product-category/multimetry/

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 06:11:14 am
content: I'd pass on the Keysight and Fluke 177. If you want something fully featured look at a new Brymen BM869s (I doubt you will find many of them secondhand).The Fluke 87V are good meters, a little overpriced but they aren't really aiming at the hobbyist market. At the moment I have two Fluke 87V and a crusty looking 87, I paid next to nothing secondhand so it wasn't much of a sacrifice.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 06:43:10 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 13, 2020, 06:59:15 pmI have a 179 and 1241A.One thing I can tell you is that I prefer the Fluke to two reasons.1) The Voltage-->shift for DC really annoys me on the Agilent. I mean, I understand why AC is the first setting, but gee it drives me bonkers trying to test DC and keep battery life which isn't that great nor convenient (4 AAs). The fluke has AC or DC mode. The range button is easy to find.2) The fluke has a better light. Since I use meters away from the bench more often, I travel with the fluke. I keep the other one at home as a spare in case I do the unthinkable to the Fluke.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 09:50:43 am
content: I have a Fluke 179 at work and an Agilent u1272A at home for hobby use. IMHO the use case and target audience for those meters are different: When you need some really reliable multimeter for your toolbox that can also take some fall and rough handling in an industrial environment, go Fluke. My 179 is about >8 years old, inherited from a colleague before me, and recent calibration showed it still is very well within spec.For electronic tinkering other brands like Agilent/Keysight or Brymen will offer more bang for buck. Comparing the build quality of my U1272A with a 179, the 179 wins slightly.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 10:13:03 am
content: 179 is rather nice but missing uA range. If I was starting out again I’d have a 179 and 87V.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 06:09:20 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on November 14, 2020, 09:50:43 amHi,I usually do low voltage indoor electronics. You are right, U1272A may not be as happy with falls and rough handling as the Fluke may be. Now I'm wondering: is the U1241C (3m drop-proof and IP67) more physical robust than a Fluke 17x ?In the meantime I'm still waiting for some opinions/corrections/additions on my comparison (page 3, reply #62)...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 06:20:58 pm
content: Quote from: paulbt on November 14, 2020, 06:09:20 pmSee my post directly below yours.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 08:06:44 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 14, 2020, 06:20:58 pmYup, I saw it yesterday, but it does not answer my question above. By "physical robustness" I mean case/display/internal assembly toughness, not feature-wise robustness.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 09:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: paulbt on November 14, 2020, 06:09:20 pmI never had a U1241C in my hand, but judging from the catalogue and pictures, the build quality should not be MUCH better than than of a Fluke 17x.And: If you mostly work indoors (and not in an industrial environment), the build quality of a U1272 is more than sufficient for that task.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 10:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on November 14, 2020, 09:38:33 pmHi,You said it like "...should be a little (but not much) better than...", but I guess it's the other way round...The U1272 is out of my expected budget, even if it is more suited for my intended use compared to the outdoor-ish U1241/2. For the extra money it also might have better specs and features than it's little brother, but to be honest I do not like the looks of it (reminds me of tall/slender women - not cute, not sexy).

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 10:20:58 pm
content: Lets say, I also would not buy a new U1272A because of lack of sufficient pocket money... I got mine used for a very good price. Otherwise I probably would have had a closer look at a german distributor that sells Brymen...

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:02:33 am
content: So have you looked at the Brymen BM869s yet?

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 03:36:32 am
content: Well, yes- I got my U1272A at a similar price in a verrrry good condition ;-)But: A BM829s would also very well answer my questions that i have, including datalogging...

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:30:43 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 14, 2020, 06:43:10 amI just read all the replies to this topic one more time and this just struck my eyes:1) Only U1241A and U1241B have that annoying AC or DC volts range on the same position of the rotary switch. All the other Agilent/Keysight handhelds have separate VDC and VAC positions.2) Some Keysights (including the U1241C that I wish to buy) have also illuminated keypad (which Fluke 177/179 does not have) and I think it could be more helpful in dark/low-light conditions.I realized now that personal preference and usefulness plays a major role in choosing between a certain Fluke and a certain Keysight.@Shock : Yup, I was looking for a Brymen a few months ago. The BM86x and BM82x are just too big for my table and have too many features that I do not need. I ended up picking the little BM235 which is more than enough for my needs and when I need extra digits and accuracy, I go for my bench dmm which is 238'000 counts.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2020, 09:37:35 am
content: Quote from: paulbt on November 15, 2020, 09:30:43 amThere is the new Brymen BM786 that is coming out shortly. Not as big as the BM869, but almost as accurate, 60,000 count, and extra features like AutoHold, BeepLit continuity and EF tester.