Tablets to replace Laptops/Desktops..uhh - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 07:35:52 pm
content: I keep seeing articles like that all over the internet. I just want to know what planet these writers are on to think that tablets can ever be efficient and productive tools. Would they like to write their articles on an 8inch piece of glass?I purchased my first smartphone last week. A Nokia Lumia 822 Windows phone...and the transaction took tremendously long because they had switched over from good old desktop computers to stupid forearm mounted iPads for checkout (and everything else). Aside from looking ridiculous, they just didn't work well. Typing on a touch screen is slow enough as it is, now try it with one hand. I thin part of it is that the sales app they were using just sucked, but still...what idiot thought that attaching an iPad to a sales associate was a good idea?I like technology, I just don't get how it's used sometimes. Is it "cool" to walk around with iPads to do sales? Is a desktop too lame for that? I don't get it.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 07:47:37 pm
content: My opinion...and this is just my opinion:Tablets are the future, so get used to it. It's a matter of economies of scale. One day, it will simply be cheaper to manufacture a 21" tablet that does everything than it will to manufacture a tablet...and a PC, and a monitor, etc etc. I think what you'll see is an architecture where the tablet plugs into docking station and becomes your monitor, and then you'll have a high power processor/video device in the dock to run the stuff that engineers have to run.I foresee some very serious teething pains coming, though. IMHO, it's pretty much inevitable at this point. The market has figured out that most people just simply don't need a full fledged computer anymore, and the gaming industry (the traditional driver for economical, high power, computing hardware, like it or not) has migrated towards independent platforms OR shoving everything they can into a peripheral you simply add on...your video card.So anyhow, that's my opinion, but I don't see how the traditional PC industry survives at this point. It won't happen this year or next, but something is bound to happen in the next 10 years, I think, and it won't resemble the PC model we currently have, in my opinion.The driver here is that the industry doesn't really care much for the handful of us that are running CAD, or PCB software....software engineers that spend 35 minutes compiling. We're nothing. The other 99% of users are where they make their money, and their stuff will get cheaper and slicker while our stuff gets more expensive and generally becomes more of a PITA for companies to support than a money maker.And then someone will see the market and will cater to NOTHING but us, and prices will drop again, and everyone will jump back on the bandwagon, and we'll start hearing about the death of tablets and "cloud computing" and all this other nonsense. It's been going back and forth for a long time...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 07:55:26 pm
content: I think we will see a lot of applications move to tablets and the like and people will in the future do a lot of things only on tablets and no longer on desktop computers. Or on whatever type of device that will come after tablets.The key issue is if some developers find a way to greatly simplify a user interface of a particular class of application. That moment it is likely that the hole class of applications moves to tablets in the long run. And stays on the tablet.Will developers manage to find greatly simplified user interfaces for all kinds of applications? I don't think so. Some applications will continue to e.g. require real keyboards and mouse. Currently, as part of the ongoing hype, people tolerate a lot of shortcomings of tablet applications. Either the manufacturers manage to fix them, or we will also see some applications moving back to the desktop and stay there.A second issue is CPU power. There will be applications for which the CPU power of a tablet is not sufficient. A large class of these can, however, be brought to tablets if the CPU intensive stuff is happening on some remote server. The whole "cloud" stuff ...So we will see the desktop stuck with legacy applications where it is too expensive, too complicated or outright impossible to move them to a tablet. The rest will go mobile or semi mobile. Because it really fits people better.Quote from: TimNJ on July 30, 2013, 07:35:52 pmYou chose the most crappy of the available smartphone/tablet operating systems. You have no one else to blame than yourself (and the muppets at Nokia sucking the muppets at Microsoft dry ...).

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 08:02:09 pm
content: I can see desktops being replaced, but I really don't understand what advantage a tablet has over a notebook. It lacks the advantage ofextremeportability that a phone has, and lacks the usability that a laptop has (see the "retarded managers mounting tablets on salesdroids" example). Any time you want to get anything serious accomplished you'll be at the very least standing still and more probably sitting down, so why give up a keyboard and poke out little pictures of keys one at a time? And if you want to add an external keyboard to the tablet itself, now you've gone from one nice, portable device to a pair of devices that have to be kept together.My gut feeling is that mobile computing in general is here to stay, while tablets are somewhere between "stepping stone to proper mobile computing" and "silly fad".

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 08:17:10 pm
content: I foresee tablets mated with a keyboard in a folding case to be the replacement for notebooks. What's the advantage? I don't know. Kids can whip it out in the backseat and watch a movie? Some of my musician friends use it instead of lugging around 5 volumes of "The Real Book". Etc etc...it has advantages for those that are into simply consuming information, and that's really an awful lot of people. People just browse. That's what they do when they go home....browse and watch. Instead of the boob tube, they use the iPad...kids watch their stuff, mom watches her thing, dad browses porn (I can only assume).These users just keep growing. It's the new TV, except it's portable and as interactive as you want it to be.As much as I hate it, that's what I see. Buh bye television...what's the point. No? Give it 20 years. What's the point of television anymore when WIFI is everywhere?And this is a TV that fits in my backpack and lets me do all sorts of other things too. The market's not stupid. Everything is moving towards this model whether we like it or not, I'm afraid. I'll hopefully be independently wealthy by then and won't have to deal.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 08:17:33 pm
content: I agree with you c4757p on the death of desktops. While I DO appreciate a good desktop, laptops are very powerful these days and you can get away with one even for design software etc. Not bashing laptops at all.You guys basically have said this but I guess the biggest roadblock is the programs/apps being in a state of limbo. How do you make a powerful desktop application work well on a tablet? I guess that's up to the developers...And Bored@Work...I don't want to get into a quarrel about phone OSes right now, but I see nothing wrong with Windows Phone. My family members own both Android and iOS devices. I've used both extensively, and while they do have the benefit of first party app support (more so than Windows), I don't see them as being better than WP. WP is intuitive, clean, and works wells. Sure there are some hiccups here and there, but for about a 2 year old OS, it does well.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 08:36:32 pm
content: well i will wait for my first tablet till it has processing power of todays blade arrays

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 08:48:36 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 30, 2013, 08:02:09 pmNot if you are on the move. You want something lighter than a notebook, something without that stupid lid, something without that annoying operating system, something allowing you to get to your information in a second without having to fuss around. A tablet is the compromise that provides this.And every time where your work is asymmetric, i.e. you need to read more information than you need to produce (type stuff in) a tablet is a suitable device. That means for example every kind of task where you need to make easy to describe / write / enter decisions, based on lots of input material.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 08:58:36 pm
content: You know, one thing that's very hard for engineers to do, and I think this is why I'm very good at what I do, is it's hard for us to understand what the other several billion people on the planet actually want. Believe me, they do not want computers. They never did and they never will. They want things that work the way they work, and people work in disorganized ways...and that means they need everything with them at all times because nobody plans for anything and we all mostly want stimulation when we want it. That's the smart phone and that's the tablet. Instant access, portability, style and cost absolutely trump actual function now that we've gotten to the point that the function is "good enough".Again, that's just my opinion. I will tell you, though, that time and time again my customers always LOVED what I cranked out, and it's because I always stripped away options and "power" in favor of simplicity and convenience. To the average customer, "power" means that they can do 80% of what they need to do with a click or two. To engineers, "power" means we can do 100% of what we need to do, regardless the effort, and 10% room for expansion. That's not the typical user. As an engineer, I always like to think I've done my job when the customer forgets about me. Enter the smartphone and the tablet. Simple, uncomplicated, unsophisticated, a bit pedantic, and exactly what everyone wants.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 09:06:33 pm
content: IMHO, if you think about corporations, I guess desktops will still be around for some decades since they are much cheaper than laptops. Tablets are the future if manufacturers shove them through our throat and we have no option, they are simply not fast enough, very small screens, so little storage space.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 09:12:44 pm
content: It's already shoved down our throats. Try to buy a simple cell phone. The line between phones and computers is already blurred, and the line between tablets and computers will only continue to blur....and tvs....and it's only a matter of time until there is a standard vehicle interface for your tablet, and it will control your radio, GPS and other monitoring functions. Maybe not 10 years, but give it 20 years for everything to shake out and for everyone to get together and standardize.I doubt you'll be able to get ice from your refrigerator without a smart device of some kind in 50 years, and you'll have speakers and mics in every room of your home for new construction. When you walk in, everything knows where you are and the whole room will just ring. Everyone thought the video phone would be the next big thing, but that's neither here nor there. It's 24/7 portable connectivity that follows you around everywhere...everything...work, play..whatever. It's there 24/7 and it's portable.Again, that's just my opinion, but I think my guess of 50 years is actually wildly conservative, and I think we'll see it much sooner than that.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 09:17:24 pm
content: TimNJ, have you tried the surface pro? I have and I am running a webserver using XAMPP in the desktop mode. Love it! I dragged a lot of legacy freewares from my winxp days into the device. I also have 2 web apps that I have made touch enabled.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 09:18:40 pm
content: Gooo!!! TABLET!!!

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 09:30:54 pm
content: I don't see what the fuss is about.Tablets now (not talking about iPad - I'm talking about Intel-based tablets) are essentially laptop-class hardware with a touchscreen. And laptop hardware these days isn't all that terrible. And the tablet hardware is getting better (and cheaper) very rapidly. As they further encroach on mainstream PC usage, the specs will only get even better and costs will be driven even lower.The only things you might be missing from the tablet is large-format screen, full-size tactile keyboard, and mouse. All of which are easily supplied externally, with the option of choosing whatever you prefer.I have a Surface Pro, and while I don't use it regularly yet (I have a MBP for the majority of my work, which lately requires OS X 75% of the time) it is obvious how superior that form factor is compared to every other machine I have ever owned. Once you use a touchscreen tablet for a short while, you'll find yourself unconsciously reaching to touch normal monitors, and you also begin to wonder why you ever held onto notions that you ever "needed" the full desktop workstation in the first place. The convenience really does trump the loss in horsepower. When a keyboard is needed, I can very quickly snap on the "type cover", and when a better keyboard is needed then that too is a no-brainer since tablets typically also have HDMI, USB and Bluetooth.Actually, I have three tablets at this point. My old 1st-generation iPad, the Surface Pro, and also an 8" Acer Iconia (the latter two were given to me at a recent MSFT developer conference).Plus, Angry Birds really sucks on a laptop or desktop.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 09:33:51 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on July 30, 2013, 09:12:44 pmSoon in a luxury car near you:http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/connecteddrive/2013/index.html

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 10:18:50 pm
content: QuoteYeah. Although ... I can remember when "I'll need to learn to type!" was a barrier to entry for desktop computers (and mainframes, for that matter.)I can't see getting rid of my keyboard and big screen (and some people demand multiple big screens!), but you have to remember that if you actually CREATE content (even to the extent of posting on forums), you've already put yourself in the minority of computer users.QuoteNot significantly. The last time I had a corporate computer "refreshed", the only reason the laptop was more expensive was that it still included the "docking station" and big screen as well. Besides, computer hardware is so cheap these days that in any sizable corporation, the majority of per-user computer costs are tied up in infrastructure and software, rather than hardware (that's the reason for the "refresh", you know - "supporting your 3-year old computer is more expensive than getting you a new one.")

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2013, 10:28:57 pm
content: I dunno... I got my first computer around 1985 and have had one in the home ever since. I got my first laptop around 1991, and I remember getting a Toshiba with a TFT display that cost something like $4,000.I remember people saying "won't be too long that nobody will use desktops anymore". Well, here we are 23 years later, and I have a desktop at work and a laptop at home. The laptop took away a lot of the desktop sales, but the market for desktops is alive and well and will remain so for the time being.The thing is, anything mobile, by definition, is a compromise on input/output What I mean is that a big screen will always be better, as will a full keyboard. But a laptop necessarily must compromise on those things to be portable. So I think desktops will be around for the foreseeable future, certainly in 20 or 30 years we will still have non-mobile computers which are more powerful and used for more real work (and gaming) than laptops.I think the market for desktops is here to stay long term.I can definitely see tablets cannibalizing a lot of laptop sales. I know a lot of people (maybe even the majority of people) who buy laptops needlessly. Let's face it, probably 98% of people use email, web and that's about it. Both my parents have laptops but all they do is email and web. I keep telling my mom she should get an iPad but she doesn't think it's for her.I have an iPad (and had an MS Surface!) and honestly, the iPad is great for reading or surfing before I go to sleep, or if I want to look something up online real quick, or if I am consuming content on a plane/train/car. But if I need to do any work, I never use a tablet.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:03:14 am
content: In two years mobile devices will have 8 cores, projection displays, infrared keyboards, and will be able to run pretty much any software we have right now.Tablets are already obsolete.http://www.androidauthority.com/do-we-need-eight-core-250558/

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:19:08 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 12:03:14 amBut in 2 years the applications we run now will be obsolete, and the latest and greatest won't be able to run on phones.I think the laws of physics will continue to dictate that processing power = energy + physical size, and as long as that holds true, there will be a place for larger machines (power desktops, laptops, etc)

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:20:00 am
content: Hah hah. Projection displays are like voice recognition - it sounds neat, and then you realize that there are very few places where it will actually work very well (and look what happened to all those projection-based large screen TVs...)(I tend to agree that if they magically solve the problems I see in tablets, most of that technology will work in phones as well. Except maybe for battery-life issues.)

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:26:30 am
content: 3 hours projection time on a cell battery is quite a while,.Drag your laptop out into the sun and see how well you can see it.http://news.ncsu.edu/releases/wms-escuti-projector/There's a reason microshaft and all these other companies are going toward touch based operating systems and it isn't to sell tablets.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 01:51:56 am
content: I have networked desktops in my home office and on the bench. I've also had a netbook for several years that no longer gets used. I have been using a 7" android tablet for a couple of years and it's great for stashing in the car or my coat and doing what it was designed for, being small but with a large enough screen to easily navigate and read for email and do general surfing, etc.I recently purchased a Windows 8 laptop with a touch screen as I'm out of the home office a lot now and still need to do work. After using it for a couple of months I have to say I think Microsoft is moving in the right direction. The touch screen works well in metro (tablet mode) and I find myself using the touchscreen in the windows desktop mode more that I thought I would. I was skeptical about purchasing a Win 8 laptop and almost purchased a Win 7 instead. I know now that would have been a mistake. Win 8 has a standard windows desktop, a start button (free app), and runs all my previous windows software with no problems (some programs are pre XP) and the thing boots in 12 seconds. Another factor is boot time. The fast boot is a huge plus as when you're mobile and want to do something quickly. This Win 8 laptop fully loaded boots faster (twelve seconds) than my tablet running Android 4.1.2. The battery also lasts all day even with the wireless on. I've run it for well over six hours straight and still have plenty of charge left.I was so happy with the Win 8 laptop I ordered a win 8 tablet for my wife. She hated it the first day but after using it for a few hours she loved it. It has both the tablet screen and her familiar windows desktop. I don't think she's turned on her desktop in two or three weeks.True there aren't that many win 8 apps yet and their store is not very user friendly (search sucks) but all the basic apps most would use are available. The big difference for me is having the ability to have a standard windows desktop and run basic windows software on a tablet. That is way ahead of ios or android at this point and I don't think many realize it yet. Price wise the 10" Dell win 8 tablet with a full size USB port, SD slot, HD screen, and HDMI I bought her was cheaper than an ipad. I bumped hers up to 64 GB so it was just under the cost of a ipad. It does not have the power of a desktop (yet) but it's pretty darn slick having a tablet with a touch screen windows desktop.Win 8 covers both worlds (tablet and desktop) and I think Microsoft is betting people will soon realize you can have it both ways at the same time. Like it or not touch is where it's headed.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 02:34:56 am
content: If I *had* to use a tablet (and only a tablet) for all my computing needs, I would get this:http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-edge-proBut it's pretty hard to find a good substitute for a desktop (or a workstation or converted server) in a lab environment. Especially if you want a lot of monitors and custom I/O boards, not to mention RAID arrays.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 02:50:40 am
content: Windows 8 is great. it makes xp feel old and clunky.I bought a nook for my daughter for her birthday, once we got android working on it the thing is pretty impressive, she tells me all the time how much she likes her tablet, and we've gone through at least ten over the years with some disappointment.If there is a device that is the size of my cell phone with the power and functionality of my laptop I'm going to use it, and if there would have been one available two weeks ago I would have bought that instead of a new laptop.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:07:41 am
content: QuoteI dunno. I've only experimented with the preview editions, but those "swipe from the top to the bottom of the screen" don't seem to work very well on those "big screens" I was saying I liked. And all those "use the hotkey" shortcuts; I thought that was over with back when word-star died.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:34:00 am
content: Quote from: westfw on July 31, 2013, 07:07:41 amI love those hotkeys. Ctrl+A, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+S, and Ctrl+Z... so useful. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. And I use them inside Notepad, Notepad++, MSPaint, Infraview, Window Explorer, etc..LONG LIVE HOTKEYS!!!

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:49:42 am
content: Quote from: MrPlacid on July 31, 2013, 07:34:00 amIn Windows 8 you pretty much do. The slide in menus are practically useless.

author: Tuomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:54:14 am
content: I spend most of my time 9 to 5 writing code with vim. I'm not expecting include a tablet anywhere in that workflow in the near future.On the other hand, I bought a Note 2 smartphone recently mainly for it's massive touch screen. It works really nicely for quite a lot of web browsing and other stuff like instant messaging with Skype and so on. I find myself leaving my laptop home a lot more often than I used to.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:36:08 am
content: Quote from: ve7xen on July 31, 2013, 07:49:42 amAre we talking about the same thing? Just pretend as if the Ctrl+key hotkeys never existed.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:53:16 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 30, 2013, 07:55:26 pmHey B@W, I liked your insights at the top of this post but I think the muppet action might be the other way around; they seem to have a need and synergy for each other but I think Nokia might need MSFT more than the other way around and even if MSFT does something goofy from a business standpoint or technology standpoint, I'm betting MSFT got the deal they wanted more so than Nokia. Both good companies that need to adapt, but the computing layers are almost always higher on the stack and closer to the business logic and more prone to manage the business logic than the networking layers.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:58:44 am
content: Quote from: MrPlacid on July 31, 2013, 08:36:08 amI'm not sure what you were talking about, but I find Windows 8 to be basically unusable with a mouse (or worse, a trackpad). The keyboard shortcuts make it tolerable.UIs lately seem to be making huge regressions. But then I'm the engineer that doesn't understand what 99% of people want. So I'm moving to Linux full-time. It's been a long time coming but I finally abandoned my last permanent Windows install last week, after many years of slowly getting it out of my life. I just wish Lenovo still made decent ThinkPads...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 09:38:31 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 30, 2013, 10:28:57 pmI fully agree, the desktop is the standard work horse. Keyboard with mouse/trackball is the most efficient way to enter or edit data for most purposes. CAE or writing code via touchscreen?QuoteYep, tablets are the most convenient way for enjoying internet entertainment. But if you start to write more than a few emails you'll will lick your lips for a keyboard :-)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 11:17:57 am
content: It won't happen. Keyboards are still the most efficient input method for large amounts of text, and there is still a huge need to do that. I can easily achieve 100+ WPM on a regular keyboard but there's no way that can happen on a touchscreen, I can't even feel where the keys are.Even "casual" computer use like chatting to someone via IM requires high-speed text input.As for attaching a keyboard to a tablet... you've just reinvented the laptop.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 11:18:47 am
content: Virtual keyboards are not some science fiction fantasy they are real.http://rohidassanap.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/8-amazing-laser-virtual-keyboard-2/And they will be incorporated into mobile devices.smaller used to be more expensive, but that's not the case anymore, would you use a device that did everything that your current desktop can do but will fit in your pocket?I going to guess yes.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:12:12 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 11:18:47 amThe difference between a good and a bad keyboard is the tactile respone. People typing a lot love big clunky keyboards.QuoteMy desktop has several network interfaces (multiple GigE, ISDN) and a few serial ports, all with cables attached. There won't be any pocket version for that.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:24:31 pm
content: You're not thinking about this correctly. Pocket sized phone....docks with a tablet to give more processing power/memory/larger screen/etc. OR, Pocket sized phone, docks with a workstation module to give the classic desktop feel with additional processing, memory, serial ports, whatever. Even *I* would love to have this sort of functionality. We'll eventually get there. What I fear will happen first is waning support for PCs BEFORE we get all of the wizbang, properly engineered technology around this sort of portable computing squared away.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 12:38:41 pm
content: By the way, just to be clear the trend has been moving away from desktops for a while now. Even without tablets, desktops were slowly becoming relegated to specialized workstations and business. In 2012, I believe the sales were about 35% desktops, and 65% laptops. So the desktop was on it's way out anyway, and it has been for a LONG time. The only impediment for most people was cost, and that's not much of an impediment anymore. The only real question is if the tablet can come far enough to replace the laptop and I think the answer is absolutely yes, if for no other reason that it doesn't actually need to replace ANYTHING. I see the laptop and the tablet as converging technologies, not competing technologies.So clearly there will always be a market for some sort of workstation class computer...rackmount servers...things like that, just like there's always a market for supercomputers, but I think desktops will all but disappear from the consumer and business markets, and they'll become as anachronistic as the overhead transparency projector.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 01:06:36 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on July 31, 2013, 12:24:31 pmWe shouldn't forget the software. I'm afraid of walled gardens, app-shops and locked OSs. If I got that right, Microsoft's restructuring plan is to copy Apple. So we may choose between being locked-in by Apple, MS or semi-locked-in by Google. No, thanks! I like to OWN my device and do with it whatever I like. And that's the problem with the shiny new world of mobile devices. You don't own the device anymore, you just licensed it's usage for some period of time :-(

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 01:46:50 pm
content: Amen. They can pry my Debian laptop out of my cold, dead...... wait, what's that? Ooohhhhh... shiny...

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 02:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: madires on July 31, 2013, 01:06:36 pmYeah, I'm afraid of that too, actually. I'm not particularly thrilled by the direction everything is moving, but there's really very little anyone can do about it as long as the vast majority are perfectly happy and spending money.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 04:52:22 pm
content: I think some here still don't realize you have a standard desktop available in Win 8, with start button, menus and all. A mouse works fine in both the tablet and desktop mode. I can use the track pad, keyboard, touch screen, or a mouse in either mode. They all work but you can just use what you prefer. A mouse also works on my wifes Win 8 tablet in both the metro (tablet) mode and the win desktop mode but she prefers to use the touch screen.I would not buy a full size tablet at this point unless it has a standard USB port. If it doesn't have a full size USB port and SD slot at this point it's just a facebook toy.For many that's all they want though.Here's my laptop's win 8 desktop which you can flip between with a key, swipe, or a tap the screen whichever you prefer. I have mine boot to the desktop (which it does in a few seconds).Here's the start button with menus. My wife tablet has the same thing.Desktops aren't going away, they will just be used mostly for business and technical applications. I do think that large networks are moving back to a server/dumb client format though and that will further reduce the desktop market.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 05:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on July 31, 2013, 04:52:22 pmPerhaps because you don't. The desktop is there with occasional pollution from TIFKAM (like popping up a tile when you insert a CD and being told to tap things). There is no start button or start menu, mouse cursor bottom left brings up something to click to take you back to the TIFKAM start screen. 8.1 will introduce a button so you can see something to click without having you guess you need to mouse to the bottom left but it still takes you to the TIKFAM start screen.You installed a start menu replacement or it was pre-installed on what you bought, probably classic shell. Praising Win8 without even knowing you are running a 3rd party add on which fixes one of Win8s worst problems - sheesh.(TIFKAM = The Interface Formerly Known As Metro for those that didn't know).

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 06:22:47 pm
content: Yup, Desktop came with both of them. I looked at a couple others last week and the desktop was on them also. I installed the start button app (took all of 10 seconds). The desktop works as fast as my win 7 desktop on my Win 7 computers.Next release is putting the start button back on the desktop anyway so you don't need to install the free app.It boots in 12 seconds (way faster than win 7), installs and runs all my old windows programs as fast as my win 7 computer, and I still have the touch screen and tablet mode if I want it. Who cares if it's a shell as long as it works?. If a tablet app pops up once in a while who cares. If you have it set so an app opens the file type it will happen. If you install a program and it's set to open that type of file it will open it on the desktop. One touch, click, or keystroke and you are back to the desktop anyway.Do you think the typical computer/laptop/tablet user will care? They won't. It works and it works well. That's what they will care about.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:42:51 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on July 31, 2013, 06:22:47 pmThe start button in 8.1 is just a button taking you to the TIFKAM start screen there is no start menu in 8.1 and a 3rd party add on will still be required if you want one.Win 8 is great if you don't mind the crap they added and don't mind installing an add on to replace some of what they removed. Most people would question why they have to install a 3rd party add on to get what they want instead of it coming as part of the operating system, especially considering it was already part of the previous version.Quote from: SLJ on July 31, 2013, 06:22:47 pmMy laptop running Win7 boots in 12 seconds and resumes from sleep in 2. Do you think a typical computer/laptop/tablet user will care about reducing that by a few seconds?Microsoft just released some financials. They wrote off $900 million discounting Surface RT prices, they spent $1 billion on Win8 and Surface advertising. Their revenue from Surface RT and Surface Pro combined was $853 million. During the same time period Apple sold 57 million ipads.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 07:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: madires on July 31, 2013, 01:06:36 pmUbuntu phone anyone? I hope it get rid of the wall garden. Not sure it does, so having my fingers cross. Someone needs to fork Android and give us a walless garden.Anyway, you are right. Msft, google, and apples are into the wall garden approach. Apple even announced that in iOS7 your apps will update automatically, and the crowd (of app developers) cheered. I think google and msft will follow apple's lead. I've seen apps being updated from no ads to ads (losing screen realestate) and even limitations kicks in. My family and I have learn to ignore the update number for apps.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:02:59 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on July 31, 2013, 07:42:51 pmThis is good news. Surface RT not selling will result in cheaper parts like keyboard cover and chargers for the Surface Pro. They thought their stuffs were hot, but it's not. So charge less please!! MSFT can learn from this and forget the RT (copying apple) and go with Pro. Msft should have release the RT 2-4 years later as apps are developed for the Pro.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:04:33 pm
content: QuoteThe last ipad we purchased was loaded with crap. Anything you buy is loaded with crap. 57 million ipads sold just proves that people don't care that much or require much. If they look around they would see that the major android and windows 8 tablets have more features (ports, storage options, etc.) for the same or less money. Again, as long as the desktop is there and it works (which it does) they won't care what's behind it. As far as the surface, pretty much everyone except microsoft expected it to flop. The should have waited for Win 8. They have the bucks, it really only hurt their pride temporally.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:14:17 pm
content: I am not a fanboi of either Apple or MS. But as much as I HATE the "Apple way" of "we'll restrict you so much that you can't screw it up", Microsoft is getting just as bad - except MS stuff has none of the ease of use of Apple.I prefer Windows 7 to Windows 8. I hate that W8 pops up stupid windows and tries to organize everything for me across multiple devices. I hate that they actually got rid of the start button. In general, I found myself counting the number of clicks/steps it takes to do something, and it's much MORE in Windows 8 than Windows 7! Completely ass-backwards. Example - to shut down the computer. 4 or 5 steps, whereas before it was 2.Same with MS Office 2013. Saving a file, opening a file, printing, all of that has been moved around to sub menus and different screens making it much worse. It's like Microsoft employs a bunch of hipster kids to design this stuff instead of people who have a background in human interfaces.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:23:08 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on July 31, 2013, 08:04:33 pmI have to disagree. Apple wants to deliver the best experience possible. Japanese wireless companies wants to install their iphones with companies junk and apple rejected them. And have you notice the ipad, ipod, and iphone all have the physical home button. I know it breaks down, but that stop accidentally sliding your finger or clicking something with lower part of your thumb and the web search is activated. Maybe these people prefer less frustration with their devices.

author: millerb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:30:57 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on July 31, 2013, 08:04:33 pmEverybody has different requirements. I mostly use my tablet for web browsing. I've yet to see an Android tablet that ships with a browser that's as smooth, snappy and responsive as what's offered on the iPad.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 08:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 31, 2013, 08:14:17 pmYou don't know about that. At the store I work at, we used to sell a lot of this face cream that was in a navy blue bottle for men. Later on, the bottle was designed to be curvy and violet in color. It's the same content, but men looking at it refuse to buy it believing it was meant for ladies. I could only image how much money they paid the designer to lose money, and then blame it on the recession.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 09:16:16 pm
content: I think eye projection will be the future though for screens.Small, Low power, 3D support, can do overlay or display only and for any screen size on the go.google glass? No, we are not there yet.Looking at the same screen you work on, easy, just share the stream, you don't even have to be physical there to see the screen of your colleague.I guess the sharing-what-someone-else-sees App/Website will also be a hit (that's really nothing for me though)Now if I could only guess the right lottery number also.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 09:38:31 pm
content: I prefer screen floating in mid air.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 10:01:23 pm
content: Having used all three (ipad, android, and win 8 ), I agree the ipad is great for what it's intended for, email, facebook, web surfing and that's what a majority of people use them for. If that's all you require then it will work. Once you get into wanting to do real work you require ports, removable storage, etc. That's not what the ipad was designed for. That's where win 8 tablets are a better option. I need spreadsheets, document compatibility, graphics programs, etc. The windows 8 OS is the only one I have found that will easily do that on a tablet and network with my other computers. Heck, win 8 even runs some of my 15 year old graphics and database software. I can kind of force the android to open and edit some files but it really does not do that good of a job.If you are the kind that freaks out if an app opens and you have to click something or swipe it to close it then an ipad is for you.However, if you can handle doing two or more things at once then go with a win 8 tablet. What it boils down to is I can have five programs open and running on the desktop, access the network, have my choice of web browsers open, cut and paste between windows, move files on the hard, drive or upload to my serverall at the same time. Say what you want but lets see a freakin' ipad do that.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 10:25:07 pm
content: The same people that tap away at their cell phones sending 4000 text messages a day are the ones that complain the most about how wonderful a "tactical" keyboard feels when they type.This technology isn't being tailored for us old geezers, look at how your kids are using it and that will give you an idea.All of my kids have laptops, they don't want a desktop.everyone is jumping on the same bandwagon:http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/1/3824006/ubuntu-touch-os-teaser-announcementUltra portable devices, with no cords of any kind will be where computers are headed.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 10:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 10:25:07 pmSure, but not as a replacement for what we have today.Nobody is going to do graphics design on a 3" screen device, or use a little touch tablet to route a circuit board.I get the "most people don't do that" argument, but if you take away "real" work, what do most people do? I'd say 90% of people just use their computer for web surfing, email and the occasional spreadsheet or word doc. A tablet of today is more than enough for those uses. But the rise of tablets hasn't killed desktop sales. Like I said, 25 years ago, people predicted that in 5 years, nobody would ever buy a desktop because a laptop would do all a desktop did and be portable. But that never happened... a laptop is great for times you need a laptop... a tablet is great for times you need a tablet, but nothing replaces a desktop for times you need a desktop. I don't see that changing until the interface (in and out - meaning keyboard and screen) issues are no longer a compromise on mobile devices.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 10:45:56 pm
content: Seriously?http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge--39Watch the video and then tell me I'm crazy.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 10:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 10:45:56 pmYou're crazyThe only way that ultra mobile devices will replace desktops is if the laws of physics change. Right now, processing power is linked to size and power consumption. I don't see that changing ever. And as long as those laws of physics remain true, every device will always have compromises... and the smaller the device, the more compromises it will have.Don't forget that as power increases, apps do not run faster... rather, app developers add more features to make use of the extra processing power. As long as there is demand for more performance and as long as the laws of physics don't change, there will always be a place for more powerful machines which will always prevent the smallest devices from taking over.Not to mention the interface issues (keyboard and big screen - which the woman in the PR Edge video connects to her phone).

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 11:02:14 pm
content: No one is forcing you to use new technology, just keep buying desktops for your company, I'm sure you won't ever have any issues when they are no longer made.This stuff is for early adapters and industry leaders, not people that are unwilling to take chances and accept change.I'm sure kodak felt the same way you do.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 11:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 10:25:07 pmJesus Christ I hate this. It's well established that people don't like to change their habits once they are set. I don't give one holy damn how the kids are using their shit. I don't want to poke my sausage fingers around the screen hashtagging my TwitBook, I want to type. On a keyboard. With keys. Product designers who design their stuff for fourteen year old kids and gizmo-addicted yuppies need to do a bit of product testing in suppository mode. You know, just in case....

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2013, 11:24:47 pm
content: You're right, who needs their damn money anyway, I would rather have principles and be poor than to allow anyone to take away my start button.http://asmarterplanet.com/mobile-enterprise/blog/2013/07/the-new-era-of-cognitive-devices.htmlhttp://www.extremetech.com/computing/162615-dells-project-ophelia-is-a-100-android-pc-that-plugs-into-any-hdmi-tv-or-monitor

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 01:23:45 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 11:02:14 pmSo there is no room for alternate opinions in your view- either people agree with you or they are luddites who are, by definition, not leaders and are unable to accept change, and who will be exctinct soon? Seems kind of arrogant to me.On the other hand, everything I said is true. It's a fact that people have been saying desktops are an endangered species for decades. It was said 25 years ago and it's said now. But the laws of physics don't change. Unless processing power stops being proportional to size and power consumption, then larger more powerful machines will always have a place. When you say mobile will eliminate the desktop machine, you are necessarily either saying that processing power will become inversely proportional to size and power consumption, or that application developers will no longer utilize processing power to add features. Neither will ever happen.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 01:31:28 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 11:24:47 pmI always get a kick out of talking heads in the media who predict that human nature or the laws of physics will change. Those folks see data points that represent things happening and they presume to have some kind of foresight about what the future will be based on connecting those datapoints - but they don't consider the things that don't change - namely human nature and physics.That's why we look back at those 1950's TV shows about "the home of the future" and laugh. Because all they were doing was taking a datapoint about a new technology and extrapolating it to nonsensical conclusions without regard to the real drivers of technology. Technology isn't driven by what is possible but rather by what sells, which is driven by what people want.Right now we have a big bottleneck with interfaces. Small screens are and will always be inferior to large ones. Until someone invents a new way to get information to the user (like a direct neural connection or projecting into the eyes), that is not going to change. Same with input... the mouse was a great supplement to the keyboard, but it did not replace it. Even the latest UI's like iOS don't and can't get rid of the keyboard. Until that problem is solved, miniaturization will always be an issue.And last but definitely not least, the laws of physics - power consumption and size. A more powerful device will always be physically larger and consume more power. I don't see that changing in my lifetime, which means there will always be a place for a larger more power hungry device, which by it's nature and by the laws of physics will always be less portable.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 01:32:32 am
content: Struck a nerve huh?Well one good troll deserves another, I'll be here all night if you need someone to entertain you.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:20:26 am
content: Quote from: madires on July 31, 2013, 01:06:36 pmThe Nexus series is quite open to unlocking the bootloader and rooting. For the rest, hackers have managed to root just about everything and unlocked the bootloader on many of them. And even without unlocking or rooting, most Android devices let you run software from outside the app store.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:33:49 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 01, 2013, 02:20:26 amDoesn't count. I want my device to be owned by me and usable the way I want to use it; I do not want to have to stage a software coup d'état before I can do this.QuoteAnd how long before that's removed because "nobody uses it"? You've already had to qualify "Android devices" with "most". If the primary way of installing software doesn't inherently protect me from the phone company's control, nothing does.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:45:10 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--I have yet to see anyone on this thread say: "By the way I am typing this on a tablet". I am typing this on an old Giant Microsoft Keyboard. I have wireless keyboards but the huge old clunker is very easy to use. I am watching this on a Vizio 32" TV, which I bought broken and fixed, for much much less than a 32" Monitor. I can sit way back from a large display, and, multiple people can observe it. Laptop and Tablet users always seem to be hunched over their displays, with no place to put a book or a document that is not already scanned in. Tablets are fine, but they are not replacements for Desktops. Laptops are fine, they are fair substitutes for Desktops, but not great. The have dinky screens and cramped keyboards. I have Desktops which have rather ho hum mother boards, but do have maxed out memory and SSDs for the C: drives. I have two Laptops similarly set up. With a couple of spare modems and routers, these meet all my needs, and nothing short of fire or flood is going to take me off of the air for more than a day. Now if I were a young urban person who could easily afford a $100 a month bill for cell phone and tablet, I would no doubt have one. I know, the Obama Tablet. If Facebooking, texting, browsing, and summoning up flash mobs are all you need, then obviously the Tablet works very well.--Heads up displays like Google Glass are half the way there. All that is needed now is a system whereby, small thumb and finger gestures, can wirelessly, be turned into typing, possibly by extremely small hand implants. If I could type the letter "E" (on my ocular display) by touching the tip of my thumb to the tip of my middle finger and "T" by touching my thumb to the tip of my second finger, and other letters and functions by touching different parts of different digits together, then the grosser parts of the instrumentality would be gone. The advantage of such a system, is that it would not even have to be standardized, people could choose their own conventions for coding of "Keys"."When I can't handle events, I let them handle themselves." Henry FordBest RegardsClear Ether

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:48:06 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on August 01, 2013, 01:32:32 amWhat nerve do you think you struck?You got upset when I didn't agree with you, but you didn't (and haven't) given any reasoning whatsoever for your beliefs. We both know why.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:58:09 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on August 01, 2013, 02:48:06 amI know this is going to be hard to wrap around that gigantic ego of yours but try to understand something, continuing to carry on this nonsense with me will only wear you out, you MIGHT be important to somebody in your own little world but in mine you just don't matter, no one here cares> you're just another guy on the internet.Anyone that actually owns a business doesn't have time to sit on the internet trolling all day, I pegged you from day one.Now go tell the mods I'm picking on you again.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:03:04 am
content: Let me guess, you're not used to having somebody in your life to argue against.Hint: You're being the asshole here.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:05:27 am
content: It takes one to know oneI'm going to save all you guys a whole lot of heartburn, since there doesn't seem to be a simple way to remove my account just have the mods remove it, I came here to get some software for my oscilloscope which I have since fixed and I really don't get much else out of it.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:10:23 am
content: I will agree there...

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:10:39 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on August 01, 2013, 02:58:09 amI have never, ever, ever complained to the mods about anyone on here. Ever. And I don't even know who you are. Do we have some history that I am not aware of? It would be kind of you to retract your false accusation, or on the other hand, I'll make a bet with you - Dave can post whether he or any of the moderators of the site have ever gotten a PM from me complaining about anyone or anything. If I'm lying, I'll pay for your supporter status for the next 10 years. If you're lying, you pay for mine. Man up, or retract the claim.I can't understand what you are so touchy about. Go read this thread again. I disagreed with your position that mobile devices are the future. And I didn't just say it, I said why I think that and I backed it up with some details.That seemed to set you off - first it was bashing me as some kind of luddite who isn't forward thinking... then you went to outright fabrications and now personal attacks?So anyone who disagrees with you is just a liar, idiot? And I'm the troll?

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:13:05 am
content: No you're an idiot.Good bye.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:21:03 am
content: ¡Adiós!

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:22:15 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on August 01, 2013, 03:13:05 amSo I guess you're not willing to man up and take the bet. Or, in simpler terms "I was wrong, but not man enough to admit it".Let's make another bet - I'll send Dave my company registration info and he can confirm we've been in business for >10 years and find hundreds of shops around the world and thousands in the USA selling the stuff we manufacture. Same bet - if I'm lying, I pay your supporter costs for 10 years. If you're lying, you pay mine. Deal?As for idiots, I remember a quote about people who call folks idiots on the Internet.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-warning-label/msg253456/#msg253456I generally hate image posts, but this one is just pithy enough to be perfectly apt in this case!

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:35:16 am
content: What a nut

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 03:39:53 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on August 01, 2013, 03:35:16 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-warning-label/msg253456/#msg253456

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 04:08:48 am
content: WTF I thought you got instantly banned for calling people names.no matter, I will just ban myself.I seem to have attracted a wierdo and those are dangerous on the internet, been there many times and you can never get rid of them.Have fun y'all

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 06:08:55 am
content: Quote from: SgtRock on August 01, 2013, 02:45:10 amHeh. Mine is a very old IBM keyboard. It's clunky, loud, ugly, but I can type about twice as fast on it than on anything else I've tried. I got sick of 'modern' plastic crap keyboards, and dug this one out of a junkpile. It's MUCH better.It's so amusing to watch people argue about 'what the future of technology X' will be. Especially when they are arguing from a position of ignorance of the deeper political motivations of the major entities influencing development. For instance that Intel, Microsoft and Apple are all enthusiastic enablers of the Elite viewpoint that uncontrolled and unmonitored information processing power in the hands of the 'little people' is a dangerous thing, and letting them get a taste for it in the first place was a huge mistake. They'd prefer to see computers become locked-down, closed platforms, suitable only for distributing controlled media. Preferably in a pay-per-view model, and with minimal or no facility for individuals to originate freely available content. Because how are you going to control the social discourse, if just anyone can show up your lies? The whole NSA spying/tapped communications, back-doored computers and assassination/incarceration of leakers fuss is just a recent illustration of where those arseholes _want_ to take us.So with 'computing', there's a strong underlying social tension, between groups with opposite and irreconcilable objectives. On one side the information freedom fighters, on the other, the Ancien Régime. The latter currently control most computing hardware evolution, via manufacturing infrastructure, patent portfolios, and control of the financial/investment systems.But there's always the potential for butterfly effect. Some unexpected development, that blows everyone's expectations to pieces.Take for instance the pitiful state of Graphical User Interfaces atm. Windows 8... ha ha ha!We have games that present incredibly realistic 3D scenery and physics models, but we don't have a 3D OS GUI? Why is that?The reason is that it isn't allowed... at present. Ever since nVidia bought out and then trashed 3Dfx (who made their driver source code available to those who needed it), the low level details of 3D engines have been very closed. The only way you can access a 3D engine is via the provided binary-blob drivers - and those are only available for approved operating systems. Windows... and if you're lucky and will live with bugs, Linux.So by secrecy and patent controls, there's currently no ability to do a non-Windows 3D GUI for a new OS.Meanwhile Microsoft is doing their best to make GUIs more and more simplistic, and ever less able to expose the underlying file system to the user. It's not a mistake, it's an intent.But this designed barrier is potentially going to fall soon. GPUs are getting more open, and multiprocessors are getting cheaper and more powerful, and may soon rival GPUs. If someone develops a fully open 3D engine, then does a new OS with a good 3D interface, that will kill both Apple and Microsoft. (Finally!) Even better if it runs on some new, fully open hardware platform.But when or if that will happen - who knows?The point being, that trying to predict what will happen in computing is futile. It's political. Fundamentally unpredictable. For instance, what are the implications for computing development direction, if at some time in the future major political changes occur? For eg, abolition of corporate personhood, elimination of the private banking stranglehold on currency creation, institution of workable, secure direct electronic democracy, elimination of centralized government structures, restructuring of the present ridiculous copyright & patent systems, etc.As for tablets vs desktop computing... how about neither?Tablets are good for consuming information. Conveniently portable display devices, can be used for entry of small amounts of data when portability is more important than ease of entry. But they're also unfortunately mostly closed - it takes effort to gaolbreak them, and even then they are still closed hardware designs.But for creative applications - large scale writing projects, CAD, drawing, engineering, etc, they are fricking useless and always will be. Due to intrinsic properties - small screen, lack of IO, limited power, etc.Desktop machines (in their current form) also have their crippling limitations. For instance, try flicking the power wall switch on and off a few times while in the middle of some large project, or the machine is running some real-world process, and see how 'useful' that desktop machine is. Then there's the problem that backups and system replication are deliberately difficult - thank you, MS Windows Registry, and deliberately intermingling of categorically different configuration data types. (Grrr... personal gripe.)How about 'cloud computing'? Well the idea is superficially appealing, but the NSA has done us the favor of demonstrating the fundamental and fatal conceptual flaw there - you can never trust large organizations (corporate and government) and so for individual data privacy you must own and hold your own hardware and data.And what's going to happen as quantum computing becomes available commercially? Anyone have any idea? No, I didn't think so.If I were to guess the 'future of computing' (near term) I'd say maybe something involving 'personal clouds', in which each person owns a cluster of computing system components at home, that inter-operate as one entity, and present a UI that's quite different to what we're used to now. That UI will be available locally in the home and used much like we do 'desktops' now - you sit down and work with screen(s) and keyboard/mouse, maybe touch surface, etc. And *all* of it fully open design, using FPGA equivalents so the hardware is just more source code. No more Intel/Microsoft dictating the direction of platform development.Elsewhere, the same UI interface would be available to the system's owner via fully encrypted channels over the public net, using portable devices like tablets, smartphones, eyewear, etc. Portions of the system's data could be published, and accessed by anyone. That implies symmetrical high bandwidth home net connections, and no 'multi-tier' net structure.But that kind of system/usage isn't what governments, corporations, advertisers, copyright holders, etc want us to have.We're going to have to fight them to get it.How are you at predicting the outcome of such conflicts? Because you can't meaningfully predict the future of computing, without knowing that outcome (among others.)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 07:31:10 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on July 31, 2013, 11:18:47 amInstead of tapping on a hard flat surface, you now tap on... a hard flat surface? The whole idea of a keyboard with physical keys is that you can feel where they are and they move and push back when you push them. But I'll agree that for portability and robustness (also cost), a touchscreen is far better because it has no moving parts and is easy to clean.As for OS I'm still using Windows XP. All the programs I use work fine on it, and it has everything I need, includingthe thingsremovedsince then. It takes longer for the hard drives to spin up and POST to complete than it does to boot the OS itself, and this is on 5-year-old hardware.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2013, 02:20:07 pm
content: I think tablets will never fully replace desktops. A table is a portable device, and it has a small screen. For multiple kinds of work (cad, video editing, graphics...) you need a big screen.Some will say: "you can plug your table into a large display". Sure, you can, but the it's only a desktop with portable central unit.I believe, that in future there will be some devices which will have enough processing power and power efficiency for demanding tasks, but this is a very distant future IMO.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2013, 04:27:50 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 01, 2013, 02:33:49 amNobody who does the math actually buys a device from the phone company, unless it's unlocked/contract free. Much cheaper to pay full price but only get a prepaid plan. And as always, research before buying.