The Re-birth of the Electronics Hobby - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: prenato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 10:47:36 pm
content: It still amazes me that electronics as a hobby seems to be growing again. For a while there in the 90s, seemed like it was really dying. This article has a similar view:http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/email/corner/gregs-corner-radio-shack.html?sp_rid=MjM1NTU3NDg0NzUS1&sp_mid=7497553&spMailingID=7497553&spUserID=MjM1NTU3NDg0NzUS1&spJobID=187328711&spReportId=MTg3MzI4NzExS0I'm quite happy too see the new trend

author: chrisbrown
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 11:07:11 pm
content: I think it's largely because today's teens and young adults (myself included) are the first generation to grow up with computers. Kids pick up a How to Java book and write a "Hello World," and eventually the adventurous ones get themselves an Arduino starter pack to blink some LEDs and things snowball from there.I can't speak from experience but I imagine it would have been much more daunting to get started in electronics before the internet came along.

author: prenato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 11:47:01 pm
content: Quote from: chrisbrown on December 17, 2013, 11:07:11 pmGlad you got the "Electronics" bug. In the days before the internet (before the 90s roughly) the hobby was actually pretty active. There were many more electronics magazines than even today for example, and corner electronics parts suppliers were easy to find. The beginning days of the Internet (90s) were actually the "dead-spot" (or at least it seems to me looking back). Maybe people were too excited with the .com world to care about the hardware?...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 11:50:45 pm
content: That and now I think that people are realizing that you don't have to pay RadioShack $2.00 for a transistor, you can get them for a penny each online.I would say that Arduino had a lot to do with it. It certainly did for me. Sure there was the Basic Stamp in the 90s but it seems that was mainly being used by people for robotics.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 11:54:51 pm
content: The gear is getting a lot cheaper too. I don't think hobbyists could afford a decent oscilloscope or function gen in the 70s or 80s.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 01:37:03 am
content: ebay, China and cheap postage: the new Radio Shack. EEVBlog: the new electronics magazine.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 01:41:56 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on December 17, 2013, 11:54:51 pmI figure this has had a huge, if not the biggest, impact in the recent shift. Definitely out of my financial reach back then, that's for sure.Between used gear available on places like eBay and inexpensive gear out of Asia, the ability to obtain more than a DMM and firestick seems to be much easier and far less expensive than back then.Toss in the internet for sources of information (such as here in EEVBlog), and it's created the right combination of elements to spark off a renewed interest.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 01:55:33 am
content: I agree with much of what's said. I think it's no one thing but a combination of things:1. The proliferation of diy sites which have brought people back from being scared of device internals. Sites like this and others, YouTube, etc has brought the "mystical" world to the masses.2. Arduino which introduced people to the concept of making things do what you want. They get started, realize how easy it is and start digging deeper.3. Cheap equipment both domestically and from abroad. It's now relatively easy to get the devices you need for an affordable amount.4. A minor influence is the pro-environment fix it/reuse it culture. This ties into the diy sites above. People are much more interested in the internals of stuff and bending it to their will.Lastly, I think the hacker ethos was still there even during the "downturn" but it was redirected to the internet. Programming and making sites was the "new frontier". Now people have returned to electronics as the internet is no longer so novel.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 02:27:57 am
content: Ah yes. In the 70s, a good analog scope would have been out of the reach of many, many people. Now, $300 can get you a good, digital scope with many features.

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 04:20:30 am
content: the internet and microcontrollers is what brought me back to the hobby after many years. I read about microcontrollers and it just seemed like such a cool concept with so much potential to make fun things that I bought a couple of PIC books and got no where until I bought a book on AVR called I think "C for microcontrollers" by smileymicros based on the AVR butterfly board and WinAVR and I managed to get through the book and do all the projects. It was enough to get me hooked and from there all sorts of different AVRs. I hope the arduino gets heaps of kids and adults into this fun hobby!

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 04:23:11 am
content: Come on guys, Dave is responsible for most of itHe is certainly responsible for my return.

author: prenato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2013, 04:34:23 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on December 18, 2013, 04:23:11 amIt had an influence on me for sure tooYoutube channels like Dave's, w2aew and Mikes Electric Stuff (just to name a few) are great motivators and sources of inspiration for new projects...It's a great hobby and lead into a good career as well (something I can't say about some of my other hobbies, say photography:)

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 06:33:22 am
content: It's easy to explain. Many are around 40 years old, plus or minus a few years. This puts us right in the group of people who were young teenagers back in the heyday of popularity for the hobby. But it also puts us right smack in the middle of the group of people who are hitting mid-life crisis events.Guys who wanted fast cars as a teenager go out and buy corvettes in their 40's. Those of us who were into electronics at that age, but then followed different paths after grade school, will go out and buy a shop full of test gear in their 40's.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 06:44:12 am
content: Quote from: MacAttak on December 21, 2013, 06:33:22 amHow did you come to the conclusion that this group is the majority of those in the hobby?Just curious if you've seen anything (statistics wise) that demonstrates the 40y/o age group makes up the largest segment.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 07:19:52 am
content: Looking at the radio amateurs I am for once in the section of " Youngster" there, most are well over 50, and a lot are well into the 70's and 80's.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 01:38:38 pm
content: I got my 5 year old grandson a "Snap Circuits" electronic set last year. He's made most of the 300 projects in it and loves learning what each component does. This year he's getting the motion detector and FM radio add ons for it. (both which he asked for). He's still a little young for his own soldering iron but it won't be long.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 02:11:50 pm
content: Being able to order a good quality PCB for an acceptable price by using good free software and not having to breath chemicals yourself and still get a lower quality PCB is probably also a reason why people get back in.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 03:55:51 pm
content: Still undecided if there is a rebirth. Hardware is these days mostly ordered ready build and if you need extras they order the specific shield. Where are the projects/own designs you have to find the right components for make design the pcb and build it? Still a small group of people that do that.So the majority of people are busy with mass produced but very nice stuff ( arduino / raspberry pi etc.) and I would not call that electronics hobby more embedded sw/device hobby. Don't get me wrong I like that even youngsters are doing this, better this stuff then the whole day playing games, just unsure if this is a hardware hobby or just advanced Lego stuff.

author: prenato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 05:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: MacAttak on December 21, 2013, 06:33:22 amLOL. I like your analysis (though I suspect the humor was lost on some).

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 06:25:08 pm
content: I'll attribute more time invested in my "Electronics Hobby" to the EEVblog resource center (Dave and members), the China Syndrome (low wage mass production) and Ebay. Every week I've got stuff arriving from China or Ebay (from wherever), couldn't afford it otherwise. Got stuff to fix, new projects to attempt and accumulating method, tools and parts as cheaply as possible.

author: michaelp
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 03:27:01 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on December 21, 2013, 03:55:51 pmI've been a software programmer/now engineer for 10+ years (I'm almost 30), and ever since leaving my teenager years I've not given one thought to hardware. I know server hardware, but that's it these days.However, I recently got into Raspberry Pi. So you could classify me as an "advanced Lego" builder. But I think you're underestimating just how powerful the raspberry pi has become. From my interest in the Pi, I've since built my own Irdium + GPS + GSM tracker backed by an arduino with a focus on low power. So, again, yes, I guess I'm an advanced Lego builder. But from this interest I'm slowly going deeper and deeper.I'm now comfortable with attempting to repair circuit boards, and I've fixed a few Macs/iPhones with faulty SMDs.So from picking up a raspberry, my knowledge of hardware and electronics is becoming deeper and deeper. I have a world of more complicated pet-projects I'll like to complete some day, but I'm in no rush to learn, I'm happy with learning a bit here and there and this is all because the raspberry platform gave me an introduction to electronics that was fun, and easily accessible.I know of at-least another half dozen people who are in the exact same position as me, and in my case. I've actually switched degrees from a purely computer science focused degree into a degree that encompasses both software and hardware engineering.Without a doubt electronics as a hobby is reborn. The raspberry pi alone has sparked interest into an entire new generation; yes, we can argue how deeply that spark will diffuse. But that spark is there.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 08:38:09 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 21, 2013, 06:44:12 amI didn't claim majority, just "many".There are frequent new members to this forum that introduce themselves as having "rekindled interest" in electronics after many years (decades) of forgetting about it. Usually accompanied by stories of dismay the first time they go to a Radio Shack in so many years, only to discover it isn't the palace of electronics parts that they remembered from their youth.Purely anecdotal. No real statistics. Unless you want me to make up some.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 01:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: michaelp on December 22, 2013, 03:27:01 amI know how powerfull a Raspberry Pi is , actually that is my whole point. It is so powerfull I have absolutely no use for it for my personal useBut seriously let me explain a bit further. The electronics hobby as I know it is first making stuff you don't need as a kid to exploit all possibilities and make yourself familiar with the components. My generation started with the electronic dice PCB's as an example and the electronics boxes with 100 projects.Starting from basics how do those components function.Later on the whole exercise of the hobby is identifying a problem and then making a design, selecting the right components (in my generation for digital designs the 74HC and CMOS4000 series) and breadboarding and testing the design. Then came the microcontroller and it was easier to let that handle all non real time aspects of the problem instead of doing it in discrete hardware components, thus born the embedded software.Still a lot of external components had to be choosen since the microcontroller itself was nothing more then that. Not many peripherals, so search for the ADC/DAC you need etc. Everybody wrote their own code, little sharing. Everyone had to read the datasheet and really understand what was going on and why some decisions were made.To put it black/white, nowadays someone orders an Arduino and PSU, downloads some code from the net, installs, runs, if it doesn't work right away starts bitching on a forum asking why it doesn't work and wants ready made answers so it works. Not to explore how it works, why it didn't work. This is what I meant with I am unsure if there is a re-birth or just a lot of people that read they can do something and go that way, for instance the mediaplayer on the raspberry pi. Plug Install and Play not much thinking needed there, so those people I would not consider electronic hobbieists. Or would everybody with a PC be called an electronic hobbieist, if that is the definition ok.On the other hand you show real interest in the matter, are on this forum, probably contribute, read and learn, even switching you curricullum, so good for you and you are not in the above category. So enjoy and start learning also some basics cause some day you are going to need it to solve an issue

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 02:31:14 pm
content: Never stopped doing electronics since I was around 14. Of course there are times I do less but I never took a break.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 06:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 21, 2013, 01:38:38 pmElinco makes a lot of stuff. I'm going to get something for my nephew in a year or so. He got bumped up to another reading level because he was bored. The kid's in first grade and just soaks it all up like a sponge.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 07:29:57 am
content: QuoteOh no, no, you don't know how right you are...QuoteVery astute observation indeed. Noticed it myself and I am one of those you describe...

author: prenato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 07:44:21 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on December 22, 2013, 01:48:40 pmThe re-birth of the hobby is not the same as the re-enactment of the hobby. Let's face it: it will never be the same as when we did it a few decades back; one could argue it shouldn't be the same. There were no accessible microcontroller development systems when I enterd the hobby, so naturally we were using discrete components, more "analoguish" circuits etc. Today, many things we were doing discretely are better handled in a microcontroller. There will be always people that eventually will dig deeper into the components and analog circuitry, but that's no longer the entry point into the hobby.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 07:46:13 am
content: @prenato, may be you should launch another thread with age pooling "only" for enthusiasts and hobbyist, it will be interesting to see the demographic.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 08:57:29 am
content: Quote from: prenato on December 23, 2013, 07:44:21 amBut re-enacting something else doesn't me it is the electronics hobby reloaded. Programming a Pi is re-enacting the home computer tinkering times. Great times, but ironically the rise of home computing massively contributed to the downfall of electronics as a hobby.Sure, we have to buy more modules, but when it degrades to only buying modules, screwing them together (no soldering required), downloading a bit of code from the Internet, then it isn't electronics for me. It is just buying modules.

author: FJV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 09:39:19 am
content: Is buying a module really all that different from using a IC designed for a task and adding a few passive components to it as indicated in the datasheet.You could even say it is a step backwards "having to program" your own IC when you can use one with everything you need "ready made" on it.For instance having to program your own voltage regulator versus using a 723 IC.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 01:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: prenato on December 23, 2013, 07:44:21 amI agree that people today starting should not look into the CMOS4000 and 74HCxxxx stuff, but for love sake, some do not even know what a transistor is why they need one to drive anything above 15mA with an I/O pin or even know the difference in configurations of an I/O pin between for instance pullup or floating when to choose one or the other. Not to mention an ADC which can have a lot of quircks when you don't use a correct filter and sample frequency for the input.So to make an example to discuss I know this guy that has a model train hobby. He does not know anything about electronics (that is his own statement) but he buys ready Mitsubishi PLC's and I/O expanders and can control his entire trainsystem by programming it on a PC. He has a list of inputs (magnetic contact switches that close when a train passes by), he has outputs (relays, railroadswitches, lamps, trainID's to control movement). He does not know what a transistor does or how he should solder one, can not make a pcb, is not able to read schematics, does not know what is inside the PLC or even vaguely how it works). He is able to solder wires together, and then use the old tape to isolate it.So tell me, this guy buys ready made modules, connects them, programs them: does he have an electronics hobby?Another example: a lot of radio amateurs are excellent electronic hobbieists, but someone who only buys a ready made radio transceiver and talks with it all day, nothing else: does he have an electronics hobby?You tell me your definition of when somebody has an electronics hobby.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 02:29:35 pm
content: As an ex muso I started off with amplifiers so mostly all analog. Eventually drifted into digital stuff when I got my hands on a couple of data books with long lists of 74 and 4000 series chips but it still felt as though I was "into" electronics. Then I stumbled upon this cool little 8 pin dip otp mcu and after a couple of years with these it no longer felt that I was "into" electronics.As for buying modules and bolting them together is there that much difference than needing a function of some sort, sourcing an IC that does that, plonking it down on the pcb and running some lines to your mcu?Imagine somebody without much knowledge in this field, they see 2 projects one is a bunch of cards hooked up to an arduino with all the code d/l'd from the internet that flashes a plethora of pretty lights, the other a rock steady dc power supply made up of discrete components.Comments on the arduino: "Oooh Ahhh, that must of been hard to make, you must be really smart"Comments on the psu: "Meh, you can do the same with a battery"

author: Abstr7ct
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 02:56:49 pm
content: Each electronics period had its technologies. I believe that making interesting things from ready-to-use modules (e.g. RF transceivers) connected to a microcontroller is an electronics hobby as long as the maker knows what he's doing. I don't like the idea of limiting the scope of electronics hobby to those who build everything from discrete components and avoid using microcontrollers as a replacement to 10+ digital ICs.If a newcomer to electronics adopted this idea, then he would probably find himself creating much less interesting things compared to other newcomers who just learned how to use a microcontroleller and how to interface it with some sensors/modules. This is a new age of electronics hobby. Either you cope with the trending technologies or live in the past thinking that you're a new Einstein who happens to be very unique to this new world just because he's reading some old and rusty datasheets.

author: prenato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 03:18:10 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on December 23, 2013, 01:28:31 pmYou bring a good point: what is the definition of an Electronics Hobbyist? I don't presume to have a good definition, but I suspect it is different today from what it was say, back in the 80s when I started on it. The electronics world has shifted more towards micro-controllers and integrated circuits and there is less focus on analog and discrete components (as much as I love those myself, that's reality). Sure kids don't learn as much about analog and basic electronics technology as a hobbyist, but on the other hand, I am impressed by the level of programming skills some of them exhibit. I wonder if back in the 80s some of the hobbyists from the 60s and 70s were saying something similar about us... "Those kids just plop a 7805 regulator on a board and don't even know how it works! In my days, I would use transistors and zener diodes and I had to understand how it all worked!"Times change, and so does the definition of what an Electronics hobby is, to some extent. I agree that it should be a little more than "lego bricks", but It shouldn't resemble what it was 30 years ago either.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 03:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: Abstr7ct on December 23, 2013, 02:56:49 pmA tad touchy aren't we?Just because I've been doing this a long time doesn't mean I'm living in the past. If you feel intimidated "older" people with experience then that is your issue to deal with.As for cobbling stuff together out of modules you'd almost be insane if you didn't. I do it all the timeThe point I was trying to make is that just because you can spec and build up a great PC, doesn't mean you now how to turn on a multimeter and that is what I'm seeing more of, people who can put together great bits of kit but would be hard pressed to diagnose a blown fuse.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 04:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: Abstr7ct on December 23, 2013, 02:56:49 pmSame goes the other way round, people thinking they're brilliant by putting some ready made modules together, ripping some other dude's code and bragging with it, while not even having a clue how it all works. The net is full of (sh)it.

author: Abstr7ct
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 04:38:25 pm
content: I meant no offense, AlfBaz, nor to anyone from an old school era. The only thing that I wanted to emphasize on, from my point of view, is that the definition of 'electronics hobbyist' shouldn't be limited to some kind of an elite group who happens to be very experienced with discrete electronics. You kind of questioned your belief if using 74 series chips feels like electronics, and then you disbelieved that you're still in electronics after working with a mcu. This is maybe intimidating for newcomers who I happen to be one of them.I agree that to further learn electronics, a person shouldn't limit his solutions to a microcontroller and a couple of sensors/modules, nor to ready-to-use ICs like the 74 series. A newcomer has this project that needs a linear voltage regulator, would he just use one of the 78xx ICs or build his own regulator from discrete components? an old school hobbyist from the pre-78xx era would have a nostalgia moment seeing this 'tad' using a ready-to-use 78xx and say: 'aaaah, I remember those days when I had to build my own regulator. Kids these days use ICs but don't know how they work and think they're are hobbyists'.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 10:10:57 pm
content: Quote from: Abstr7ct on December 23, 2013, 04:38:25 pmIt's probably my fault for going to extremes in my example. What I was trying to imply was that one person knew the black art of loop stability and the other how to solder and follow instructions

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:19:44 am
content: I gotta say, stuff like the Arduino/Pi takes out half the fun of constructing a device, because the core device is pre-built, out of the box. Okay, sure, people can create their own "shields" or whatever, but I firmly believe that people should start learning electronics with the classic stuff. People today have it too easy, they plug a couple PCB's together and write up some C and boom, they have a device. Whatever happened to PCB design and Assembly?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 12:17:32 pm
content: For me, It's a comeback also.I studied electronics in the 90's, but Europe scared away every company that still really did some developing.CB and TV video stuff got replaced by really cheap japan and later china products.The tyredness of consumeristic endproducts and attendance of DIY, opensource and project groups got me back to it.First MSEFI, then RF45-ZAY7045-linuxCNC, then MikroE and now Dave caused me to invest in Rigol products, I'm back to never stop again.

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 01:39:14 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 21, 2013, 07:19:52 amAs a UK licensed HF Radio Amateur, I am living proof that there's nothing better than a box:-+of parts you can make something from and it works, still gives me a huge buzz. And if it's junk box parts that's even better