What "450kHz Curie Point" Soldering System?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 12:43:41 pm
content: I've never tried a Curie point type soldering system, but I'm really itching to.When I worked for LG electronics the production staff used Metcal stations and the engineering department had Weller systems.I always assumed (Maybe wrongly) that the production staff only used Metcal stations as they could not adjust settings and it is a nice and simple system to use allround for production use with zero downtime. That was the only place that I worked that I have seen a Metcal station and never played with one - looking back I wish I had!I currently have 2 types of system here, my main iron is a Hakko FX-951 with quite a selection of genuine tips (with extra grips) and to be fair I have very little to complain about, apart from the UI. It is a pita to change temps quickly, I find pulling the key out quicker than holding the (*) key. But apart from that it's been a fantastic system and has worked well for years.The other station I have is a Weller WD1 with WSP81 iron, I have used a WSP81 iron for decades and had them on various different base units at home and almost every company I have worked for this has been the default iron. Again no complaints here, I've not had any issues with tips that some mention. Since I got the Hakko FX-951 a few years ago my WSP81 has always been used as a second station.As mentioned I have quite a few tips for the Hakko of various shapes and the largest tip I have for that is a chisel T15-D24 all the other tips are either smaller or completely different shapes, but it covers maybe 80% of all my soldering use.I use larger tips on the WSP81 for TO220's, soldering coax, bridge rectifiers, linear transformers, large components and anything that requires a bigger tip with a bit more heat.I'm pretty happy with the above setups, but I am envious of those who have a "Curie Point" system and I'm really thinking about dipping my toes in to this. But it is VERY confusing what setup to get.A MX system is out of the question at the moment, but I do have eBay searches saved for used equipment and if something comes up at the right price I may try that too.I'm more interested in trying the 450kHz stations as they look like they have a lot to offer for the money, but the trouble is there are so many different types of handpiece and tip system I have no idea where to begin!So far I've looked at the following:Metcal PS-900 System - Cheap, not sure about the iron size.Metcal MFR System - More expensive, but a minefield with handpiece and tip systems. I've exhausted my brain trying to research which type of tip system is right. SxV/SxP/SSC Tips - What's the best option?Thermaltronics TMT-2000 System - Half the price of the Metcal MFR, if I bought this I'd buy the system that is compatible with the MFR type tips, I've worked out the K system is their own, i'd rather get one that works with Metcal and Thermaltronics. That narrows it down to the P (SxP?) or S type tips, the S type station is the cheapest and compatible with Metcal SSC tips.Any help or experience with the above would be gratefully appreciated

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 10:39:16 pm
content: Quite a few relevant threads here discussing, some in the SDG reviews (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/the-sdg-electronics-soldering-station-comparisonshootout-thread/and more)Keep an eye out for a used MX/PS2E/etc station. They can be paired with Hakko/Thermaltronics/Metcal handle, if it does not come with one. Depending on your country tips from x manufacturer may be cheaper and easily available. For me here Amazon has MX clone tips (sttc) for $20 and Hakko fx100 clone tips for $12. Crazy cheap.I wouldn't bother with 450kHz unless you find a used one. Sure its better than FX951 but, for normal use won't be massive difference.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 17, 2021, 10:39:16 pmThanks for the reply, I've got the MX stuff saved in my eBay search but doesn't seem to come up that often.I will get one eventually.Regarding the 450kHz stuff, I've seen a brand new really Thermaltronics system but only takes SSC tips with the supplied handpiece and I am sorely tempted but I didn't realise how many different types of handpieces and tips there are for the MFR system alone. I can't find much information on any of the MFR Metcal systems anywhere really. The PSU with the above mentioned Thermaltronics has 2 switchable ports so can pretty much take any of the MFR handpieces which makes it look appealing.I know I should hang on and see what MX stuff becomes available, but this looks like a bargain but I'm trying to be sensible and find out some more about the MFR series first.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:34:20 pm
content: Keep in mind there are a large number of relevant search terms. PS2E, STSS-002, RFG-30, MX-500p, MX-5000, MX-5200, PS5000, PS5200, FX-100, Metcal or OKI. Probably more I missed.What sort of bargain are we talking? eg $290 here:https://www.tme.com/ca/en/details/tmt-2000s-sm/soldering-stations/thermaltronics/Info about tips:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/thermaltronics-tmt-2000-tip-families/

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:41:29 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 17, 2021, 11:34:20 pmMany thanks for the search terms, I had no idea there are so many.Those links are really useful too.I can get the Thermaltronics TMT-2000S-SM for about £150 delivered Inc VAT.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:59:40 pm
content: wow, yeah that is cheap enough that it might be worth trying out. Tip variety is decent.I'm sure you could sell the WD1 or FX951 and get $150 if not a bit more.Depending on what you are actually using it for though.. anything specific where you need more performance?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 07:43:20 am
content: Ensure you know the heat up speed of the model you are getting so you have an idea of it's relative performance, some RF stations are only slightly faster than the FX951.I'd personally get the MX5200 as it seems sort of counterintuitive paying for expensive tips on a lesser model. It's the fastest heating, has the shortest tip to grip and two channels you can run the ultrafine or tweezer handpiece later on. The MX series doesn't have integrated vacuum though only the MXR does which appears lower performing and not handpiece compatible.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 10:45:01 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 17, 2021, 11:59:40 pmIt does seem really cheap and can take any of the "450kHz" irons as it has both types of socket.I think it might be cheaper as the SSC tips don't seem all that popular and reading up on it a bit further they were for the SP-200 stations which are discontinued. It's still cheaper than buying the TMT-2000S base unit on it's own.I'd keep both the WD1/WSP80 and the FX-951, I don't actually need any more performance I have no complaints with both of my stations. I just really fancied trying a "Metcal" type station as I feel like i'm missing out.Quote from: Shock on November 18, 2021, 07:43:20 amI'm really confused about the 2 different frequency systems, for the most part I've read they perform pretty much the same and no noticable difference, due to the vast availability and cheap tips/handpieces for the 450kHz system I thought that might give it a go. But then I went down the rabbit hole of finding out there are multiple types of the 450kHz system which I had no idea about.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 02:16:57 pm
content: For Thermaltronics read this post which has a reply from them about performance.https://forum.contextualelectronics.com/t/soldering-iron-recomendation-pros-and-cons/3673The RF stations all have different per channel power ratings and different features like how power saving works. Some don't have integrated tips, they are still RF heaters but for this reason a bit slower. The MX5200 to the best of my knowledge is the top of the bunch at 80W and as I said a very short tip to grip distance.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 03:17:45 pm
content: One other thing I forgot, Hakko (and Pace as it happens) have hot swap tips, meaning you just pull them out on the fly.I don't think RF stations are designed for this and specifically in some Metcal and Thermaltronics manuals it clearly states to power off the stations before swapping tips. They also use silicon pads to remove the tips. These differences can seem quite backwards coming from Hakko.If you are curious, with JBC you touch the tip to the station and Weller theres a channel off feature so they are uniquely different as well.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 12:53:39 am
content: Even on a Hakko, I always turn the station off when swapping tips. Such a small amount of effort to reduce the risk of melting something/station beeping like crazy at me/etc.Quote from: TheBay on November 18, 2021, 10:45:01 amIf you have no complaints then you aren't really missing out. Its the point where you are trying to de-solder a USB connector, and the power isn't nearly enough, trying to rework an IC on a large groundplane, etc.Maybe missing out if you care about grip to tip distance + handle size/shape. Which is where you see a difference from the newer 13MHz stations, handles can be a lot nicer. Although the TMT-2000S-SM looks decent, like the old metcal handles, for sure better than the weller, can be better than the hakko (depends if you like the foam or not).

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 02:42:37 am
content: On my Hakko FX951 station I've disabled both the beep and the operator key. I think I ended up cutting a trace to the piezo, the opto I put some insulation over one side of it. Two relatively useless and annoying features.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2021, 09:57:05 am
content: Quote from: Shock on November 20, 2021, 02:42:37 amI must be the only person who likes the beep, when I take it out of sleep and I'm not looking at the station I know when it's up to temp and also I know when it's gone to sleep.Later FX-951's you can turn off the beep in a menu setting, but mine is from 2008 and doesn't have that function.I lost my operator key a long time ago, but I 3D printed a "Flush" key that doesn't get in the way, I've left that in there and forgotten about it.There is just enough poking out that I can pull it out and slot it back in quickly to adjust temp rather than hold the "*" button.I'm going to hold fire on the 450kHz stations and look for a MX series/type station new or used.