Teardown: Car Insurance - Telematics Black Box - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Garywoo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 01:59:51 am
content: Introduction:My car insurance company (Admiral, in the UK) contacted me and asked if I wanted to receive a 'box' that would monitor my driving and possibly reduce my insurance premium. I agreed. It only had to be kept in the car for 3 months and then returned, and since I only used my car for commuting, I didn't mind them effectively tracking me. After all they already know where I live and work.I received the unit pictured below:Two main components, the power adapter, and the circular "puck". The latter came with an adhesive pad on the back, and the manual noted to mount either flat or at vertically at 90 degrees with the arrow imprint always pointing forward. I assumed it contained at least an accelerometer and gyro to record my driving behaviour, as well as a GSM radio to send the data back to their headquarters for processing.Of course, being the inquisitive and aspiring electronics engineering nerd that I am, I had to take it apart! I waited until after the insurance company asked for me to send the unit back before taking it apart, in case disassembly produced some weird results and skewed my data, or there were some internal switches pressed against the case that could tell when the unit had been opened or tampered with (spoiler: there weren't any).Now let me state here,I'm pretty much an electronics noob. I understand what most of the components are and do on the boards, but I have some questions that I'll post at the end if anyone feels like teaching me something.I'm really posting this because when I originally got the unit, I did a quick search online to see if there was any info about this particular unit and what exactly was in it, but failed to find anything. Hopefully this post will be found by someone else like me in the future, who wants to know what's inside this box before they stick it in their car for 3 months.I know this is also the same box used by Bell Insurance, and presumably also Elephant, Diamond and Gladiator Insurance, as they are all within the same group, although I don't know if they offer a telematics scheme.Teardown:(Click images for full size versions)Puck PCB TopPuck PCB Bottom12v Power AdapterNotes:Identifying marks hidden in photos.Contains GPS and GSM units (datasheets linked below), and presumably an accelerometer/gyroscope and magnetometer (I'm unsure where these components are).Large shielding can under the angular antenna, unfortunately i didn't want to risk trying to pop it off without damaging the unit. Would have loved to see under it.Unit was powered up while taking these photos. Notice the green LED on the puck.There is a quite a significant amount of bodging done on the power adapter PCB. Mostly diodes and a couple bodgewires!Power adapter has a completely blank PCB backsidePower adapter has 2x AAA rechargeable batteries under the PCB connected to the white JST connector on the top side. the device is always powered until they die. There is no off switch.The power adapter has a switch on the centre pin of the 12v socket plug, allowing it to recognise when it is physically unplugged from the car.Power adapter also has a USB socket for charging external devices, and a secondary 12v connector (black plastic plug on the bottom edge, under the USB socket) for an included optional 12v automotive socket on a short wireInterestingly, the patent explains how the unit 'profiles' the car's electrical system (presumably electrical signal noise from the alternator) and recognises if it's being used in a different car.The patent proprietor is listed as the insurance company, so I assume they actually invented this particular model.My questions are:Where is the processor? Under the can?Where is the accelerometer, gyro and magnetometer?Since the unit has a GSM radio, does it also need a SIM card? Where is the SIM?What do you think the 3 pin jumpers are for, on the top of the puck?Links:Patent:GB2498793Datasheets:NEO-6 u-blox 6 GPS ModuleTelit GE865-QUADMacronix MX25L6445E Serial Flash Memory

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 02:38:47 am
content: I've never understood these devices as every quote I've had from other insurers has been cheaper than the few with these godawful spy devices.What's more - that 12V cig lighter connection looks even more dodgy and intermittent than the usual won hung lo stuff. I assumed they were professionally hard wired in to your car? This is a joke. Surely when you are a young driver (who i guess these things are foisted upon) then when you want to go tear arsing around at night you just unplug it?...and before anyone says "Ah but then your insurance is null and void", no, statutory insurance is there for third parties and the insurer has to cover by law and can't wriggle out of a claim because of this crap not working / unplugged at the time of an incident.

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 02:52:37 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on November 25, 2015, 02:38:47 amMe thinks you did not thoroughly read the post...

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 03:05:05 am
content: Quote from: dadler on November 25, 2015, 02:52:37 amYou mean it has its own rechargable battery? So what - remove it from the car and leave it behind... Besides the batteries would drain in no time when the cig lighter is not connected either by car design (some cars the cig is permanently on, others its only on when the key is turned) or its very poor design of requiring the crappy very poor cig connection anyway.Too many points of failure.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 04:31:24 am
content: SIM would be an integrated part of the GSM module, not a separate card, as you can put this functionality in the GSM CPU in any case, that it is a card is just a convenience from wanting to have an identity that is transportable from phone to phone. In this use there is no need for that for a fixed unit which would not actually have an associated phone number, just an identifier for the network and a GPRS data connection. Mems accelerometer is the tiny IC U19.The 2 AA cells will power the unit for a long time, it will stop transmitting at power off ( finish the current packet and disconnect then power off the GSM module) and turn the GPS into micropower mode ( not moving but keeping a record of current time and the constellation so it can relock fast on next power up) and simply poll the MEMS to see when it starts moving again, or the engine starts, probably from AC noise on the supply and the module power supply switch actuating if plugged in.

author: Garywoo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 09:12:06 am
content: Thanks for the info Sean,I wasn't aware you could bake an ID into a GSM chip.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 09:49:49 am
content: I woudlloveto take one of these for a ride in a glider, to see what they made of: 0-50mph in 4s, up to 150mph, pulling 3g in corners going round in a circle many times and moreMore seriously, these devices are for the insurance company's financial benefit, not yours. Over time these devices will be used toincreasepremiums, by these standard tricks:if youdon'thave one (by "choice" of course), your premiums will be higher"cherry-picking" the good risks, leaving the poor risks to scrabble around elsewheredenying liability if you are, for example, travelling above the speed limit when an accident occursdenying liability if you travel more than you stated in your policy applicationditto driving lessEven though I've never been bitten I never trust an insurance company.Once I was rear-ended in a queue of traffic, which is more-or-less the prime example of a no-fault claim. The company's sebt around a loss adjuster and,before looking at the damagehe checked the tyres. Why? Because if they had been faulty he would not have bothered to look at the damage - the claim would have been rejected as the car would have been "not roadworthy". Faulty tyres could not have caused the accident but that would have been irrelevant.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 10:11:48 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 25, 2015, 09:49:49 amOr a top fuel dragster.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 07:56:52 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 25, 2015, 09:49:49 amA very wise policy if you'll excuse the pun. It's almost as though they strive to give the lowest possible levels of customer service, and I particularly despise the universal practice of jacking up renewal premiums on the off-chance you won't look elsewhere.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 08:10:24 pm
content: Assuming you use it in the intended car the first time, it is easy to detect physical removal using the accelerometer and gyroscope since it will suddenly have large high frequency movements instead of the sluggish movement of the car to which it is taped.On those batteries it will last multiple days. If not close to two weeks.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 09:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on November 25, 2015, 08:10:24 pmThankfully the law on mandatory insurance in the UK, as stated in the Road Traffic Acts, compels the insurer to provide a minimum cover of third party which is really all anyone should concern themselves with. Once a policy is written the insurer has to pay out and all this techno bullshit (and other bullshit they have used like telephone based "lie detectors" on claims lines) are just that.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 09:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on November 25, 2015, 09:15:22 pm

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 10:11:15 pm
content: Not sure how necessary an accelerometer, let alone a gyro would be, as it ought to be possible to get most of the info from the GPS data, especially if you could get more than one fix per second.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 10:33:26 pm
content: The accelerometer could reveal the time and position of collisions, along with things like going over bumps at high speeds. It's not entirely useless: insurance often covers damage from causes besides other drivers, and there are some drivers who don't carry insurance (illegally) or who leave the scene.

author: FireFlower
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 02:21:59 am
content: Where is the processor? Under the can?Where is the accelerometer, gyro and magnetometer?Since the unit has a GSM radio, does it also need a SIM card? Where is the SIM?What do you think the 3 pin jumpers are for, on the top of the puck?1. Processor (MCU) seems to be under can according to test points2. Can't say for sure, can't see part numbers. Either U6, U18 or U19. My bet would be U63. U4 contains GSM chip, reprogrammed E-SIM (there are programmable sim chips)4. Programming or serial connection for or both.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 06:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 25, 2015, 10:11:15 pmThe accelerometer analyses the aggressiveness of your driving. You can use the throttle and brake as binary switches, and some people do.GPS has a low update interval and high inaccuracy to get this data.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 10:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 25, 2015, 09:49:49 amMaybe you'd get a letter from CAA?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on November 26, 2015, 10:26:51 pmSaying what? That's all part of everyday flights, so the CAA are perfectly aware of it. 14yo adults do it on their own. And "departing from controlled flight" is a normal way of losing excess height. See another glider circling upwards - go and join them; in a strong thermal you are banking at 70degrees and ensuring separation by looking upwards at the top of their head.None of this air traffic control nonsense, just fun and freedom.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 10:20:51 am
content: Quote from: Garywoo on November 25, 2015, 01:59:51 amEverywhere. Each module has oneor moreCPUs inside. They might not be accessible for programming, though it seems likely the GSM does have one.Among Wifi/BT chipsets, it's common to have dual cores, one for user programming, one for handling the modem (high level communications protocol, networking stack).Tim

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 11:32:25 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 25, 2015, 09:49:49 amThey cannot do that. Even if you're speeding and driving like a lunatic, they still have to pay out if you cause an accident.However, they can refuse to renew the insurance policy or increase the premium to a silly price if the spy device detects reckless driving.QuoteI know what you mean. A friend of mine had an accident on their motorcycle that wasn't their fault. A van pulled out in front of them on a roundabout and hit them. The problem was, their motorcycle's front tyre was worn past the legal limit, so to avoid problems with the insurance company, they salvaged the bike themselves, took it to a garage and got a new front tyre fitted. When the loss adjuster look at the bike, it was written off and went to the scrapyard with a brand new front tyre. Fortunately, after a lot of trouble, they managed to claim on the van driver's policy.I don't know whether they broke the law or not by replacing the tyre after the accident but I don't blame them for it.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 11:36:58 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 26, 2015, 11:21:51 pmI was joking. Just imagine someone at the insurance thinking that your car does those things and reporting the "flying car" to the aviation authority.Btw, I'm also a glider pilot, so you won't have to tell me how fun it is.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 03:17:57 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on November 27, 2015, 11:36:58 amI doubt the insurance company would have that much imagination! All they are interested in is increasing insurance premiums.Glad you enjoy gliding - let's hope a few other people realise that it is done by "ordinary people" rather than by "rich gods"

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 09:40:02 pm
content: Some one of these years I'd like to get back to it and finish getting my sailplane ticket. Soaring is very relaxing while at the same time being challenging. It seems I can have the time, or the money, but both never seem to coincide. (Granted eBuy and test equipment are doing the money side no favors this point either!)-Pat

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 10:04:25 pm
content: I had a similar unit from "Progressive" insurance here in the US.It was a much smaller "dongle" that plugged into the OBDII socket under the dashboard.I assumed it was getting data like RPM, speed, accellerator angle, brake pressure from the vehicle.But maybe it was just getting power from the OBDII and self contained for speed, accelleration, time, etc?It looked very much like this....

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 12:09:11 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on November 27, 2015, 09:40:02 pmIntense relaxed concentration. You go home knackered but relaxed.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 01:55:49 am
content: Many hobbies that require intense concentration are surprisingly relaxing - crosswords, sudoku etc. This is because the concentration stops your brain thinking about the longer term stresses (money, work, health, age, relationships etc) and the "caveman" part of the brain takes over which stops you from killing yourself. I think the most intensely I have ever concentrated was when I first flew a helicopter. My poor little squishy caveman brain had its work cut out then!I'm sure I read recently that before 2020 all EU cars will have to have tracking/logging built in. "To protect the driver". Yeah right. Pretty sure the insurers are going to use that to "give us the best deal". i.e. Optimise their profits.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 03:41:15 am
content: Quote from: Zad on November 28, 2015, 01:55:49 amI'd love to try a helo, but after looking into it years ago at the local airport, I realized I could get about 5 hours of fixed wing time for what it cost for 1 hour of helicopter rental, so I stuck with flying machines with the fan mounted on the front rather than on the top.Big brother will be watching more and more as time marches on and technology improvements make it more cost-effective to do so. I'm sure the powers that be would love to set it up so that if you exceed the speed limit or otherwise misbehave, the ticket is automatically spit out into your lap by a printer in the dashboard. Hell, skip the ticket and have it automatically charge your credit card. For your safety, of course. The state of Connecticut stopped producing and requiring front license plates for cars back in the early 80s as a cost saving measure - cheaper to make only one plate rather than two. Fifteen or so years later, we went back to two plates - one for the back and one for the front. Oh, and at the same time, we went to a new plate design, where the whole plate was reflective rather than just the lettering. (Makes it more difficult to read at night as the whole thing is reflecting back at you, but of course it was for safety.) I'm sure it was purely coincidental that LIDAR (checking vehicle speed by reflecting a laser off of the approaching car for those who may not know of it) started getting popular with the constabulary at around that time.-Pat

author: thewyliestcoyote
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 04:14:00 am
content: They very best thing to do if required by insurance to have one of these is to connect it to 12 volt power supply and leave it at home. Cheaper rates be cause they don't think you drive any where and no bigger brother. Sounds like a win win.The next step is the GPS is most likely on UART and the accel and gyro would be on spi or i2c. None of these are secure in any way. Just add a micro than emulates these functions. And make them draw a picture of scooby doo. Just the same thing that should be done in a polygraph exam.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 04:31:58 am
content: The 12VDC from a car's accessory jack is not clean when the engine is running, there is some rpm related noise. And it would drop over time if the car is never started. These together can be used to detect if the tracking device is fobbed off on a power adaptor. As for cars with tracking built-in, if there is in-dash GPS mapping then the position data can also be recorded. I think I heard there are also regulatory requirements for "telemetry" type data to be recorded in case of fatal accidents.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 07:23:43 am
content: Leave it on a bus...........

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 09:29:09 am
content: Quote from: Zad on November 28, 2015, 01:55:49 am

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 09:33:04 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on November 28, 2015, 03:41:15 amGliding is cheaper still and, IMNSHO, much more interesting. Cost in the UK for an hours flying including instruction is ~£25. There's an old joke about glider pilots that have transitioned to powered flying: firstly you have to learn youcanfly straight and level, secondly you have to find a way to stay awake when doing so (because it it so boring)

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 11:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 28, 2015, 09:33:04 amFor pure enjoyment, soaring is definitely the way to go, but if you want to go somewhere (like for a $100 hamburger) power is the ticket. Powered flight is also something that you can do on a whim on your own, whereas soaring tends to be more involved needing someone to launch you. I suppose a powered sailplane could be the best of both worlds - launch yourself, then fold up and put away that fan while you have fun.Do you folks in the UK do aerotow or ground launch? IIRC, ground launch is much more common on your side of the pond. All my soaring experience has been aerotow.-Pat

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 11:41:35 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on November 28, 2015, 11:27:08 pmAgreed.Soaring is indeed a more social activity than powered flying - it only works if everybody helps everybody else.Winch launches are much more common over here, and much more fun. My daughter found an aerotow OK, but her first winch launch hooked her!

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 11:56:56 pm
content: When I was a kid we used to go down to Torrey Pines, a big cliff right on the ocean north-west of San Diego.They had a big winch on a flat-bed truck parked at the edge, and the operator (sitting inside a protective cage) would rev the big V8 engine and pop the clutch to winch the plane up into the air in just a few seconds.https://youtu.be/XL3jG2bydm8

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2015, 01:12:55 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 28, 2015, 11:56:56 pmWe have a 440HP engine and ~1mile of steel cable. Time to 40mph: 3s, 50mph: 5s, 1500ft: 45s.Occasionally people scream all the way up the wire; last time I heard that, she landed with a big grin on her face (cf the usual inane grin) and went straight back up

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2015, 04:46:05 am
content: That must be a pretty insane ride! What do you climb at, something crazy like 45 degrees or so? The fun with aero tow is getting the hang of the response lag of the glider as you try to maintain position behind the tug. Coming from powered planes, I had to learn patience. Put in some aileron input andwait. Being used to much faster roll response, I'd move the stick a bit, nothing would seem to happen, I'd move it some more, and then boom, I have twice as much as I need and am now on the opposite side of the sky and trying to get back.It's amazing how once you get the hang of it something clicks and you just seem stay where you want to be almost subconsciously, locked in a groove, unlike your early tows where it seemed you followed behind the tug despite your best efforts and only because you're tied to the damned thing with a 200 foot piece of rope.-Pat

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2015, 10:01:16 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on November 29, 2015, 04:46:05 amThe first few times it feels extreme, then it only feels extreme when it doesn't happen, e.g. a winch power failure or a cable break. Yes, we do practice "engine failures" regularly. While it has never been particularly dangerous, thanks to a BGA campaign it is now even safer - and there's no chance of my killing the tuggieThere is no problem with 14yo flying them solo.Zero wind climb angle is probably 30 degrees, but in a stiff headwind that rises to, say, 45 degrees. In a modern glider your feet will be higher than your head (not above your head, fortunately).Where I fly, you get annoyed if you don't get to 1400ft, in a stiff wind it can be 2000ft, and with a very stiff wind and a very long cable the club record is 2800ft. A launch plus 10mins in the air costs £8/$13, and with a two cable winch you can get 10-15 launches/hour.

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2015, 10:46:27 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 28, 2015, 09:29:09 amIf the insurance companies get as good at predicting risk as they'd like, if they are prepared to offer you insurance there would probably be little point in having it.