Restricted components on popular webstores - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 05:52:34 pm
content: HiRecently I have been working on some bluetooth projects, and more than once I ran in the unpleasant message on places like mouser and farnell where I was not allowed to purchase certain components.So I'm in Croatia, which has been part of EU since 2013 so I would assume I don't live in a third world country plagued by terrorists.So first thing when I started working on bluetooth projects was to look into devboards, just to find out I can't buy anything that has anything to do with bluetooth, all bluetooth modules are restricted!Getting the nRF52 development board from mouser required filling out a form claiming I won't be using it for illegal(terror) purposes.Then later I needed a piezo buzzer disc, and I did not know which one would suit the best so I just ordered a bunch of them, just to realize I can't get half of them because of restrictions??On another project I tried to order doppler radar modules, and those were even banned on small random webshops.There are tons of components that are just prohibited and I can't figure out whats the deal with it? What makes them prohibited? They are not military use anyway.To make things even more ridiculous, in the end I can just order the same parts from china, or from other EU stores, so what is the deal?

author: tablatronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 06:00:33 pm
content: I am assuming this is because they contain high level encryption, and there are export restrictions on certain levels of encryption.eg.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_Statescould also be frequency band restrictions.

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 06:29:09 pm
content: If its encryption, the nRF52 is a product from Norwegian company, so it obviously is allowed for the EU area.As for radio spectrum, the regulations here are all under CE, and I don't think other EU countries have such issues.The same question goes in reverse, what if somebody wants to sell the same products to the US?

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 06:51:15 pm
content: Woah...wait a minute. Did you say you aren't allowed to buyPIEZO BUZZERS?!What logic is that?! Also, if bluetooth restrictions are supposed to stop crime, that is getting into the same controversial territory as anti-gun laws.I smell a debate coming...

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 06:58:50 pm
content: Exporting anything from the US requires that the exporter have a correct export classification, know the end destination, and know the end recipient. These must be checked against lists of countries and people to determine what if any export controls apply. This is for EVERYTHING, not just stuff that's subject to arms trade restrictions (ITAR), and yes, it applies equally to ANYTHING exported from the US, even items that were previously imported from another country. The classification criteria can be extremely specific and tedious to wade through, and all sorts of things can wind up subject to classification because at some point for some obscure reason some criterion was deemed important for national security or commerce. It's a lot of work to do it "right", and many companies simplify by simply refusing to export at all, or refusing to export whole categories of products rather than take the time and effort co classify all products individually. I'm not going to say it's a sensible system, but it's the one we have.Re: buzzers, if they told you the export control classification number (ECCN) for the ones they refused to export, you could refer to the classification description and at least find out what the specific criteria were that caused it to be classified that way.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 07:06:33 pm
content: QuoteWelcome to Paranoia world, where a massive massacres performed by crazy(word removed by moderator)with such sothisphicated weapons what left with the open mouth to militaries scientist from Pentagon .Soon for security of our citizens , the goverments will ban the steel or ceramic knives(only wooden) on home without weapon license ,will ban the hard objects . they will ban , will ban etc.

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 10:44:55 pm
content: Its so frustrating to work on hardware with such nonsense.Also why is it such a galactic problem to order batteries, but when not a problem at all when buying laptops/phones.Yet the Chinese are still super happy even selling Ni-Cd batteries which are toxic.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 12:06:13 am
content: Materiel can be produced abroad, shipped into the US just fine, but shipping back out is subject to ITAR. Go figure.Don't like it? Don't buy from here. It's the American way!(Isn't RS or Farnell basically the European equivalent of Digikey or Mouser? Are there really no foreign suppliers with as good an inventory system? Gee, this sounds like a business opportunity...)Tim

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:04:31 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 20, 2017, 12:06:13 amIf I could I would just move to the US and be done with it, I don't like the economy here anyway.Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 20, 2017, 12:06:13 amProblem is that I have to use the damn export store.And + bonus, both farnell and mouser export stores are RIDICULOUSLY slow! It takes forever for a page to load. It takes me literally an hour to put up an order when doing something.Among other things, I had a funky situation with a voltage regulator on farnell which was in the UK warehouse, costed 10 pounds and the real price is about 1$. Newark sold them for 1$ even tho they were in the UK.I called farnell to see what is the deal with it, but got no answer, and had to pay(well, not me, but the person who I was working for) 100 pounds for 10 regulators instead of ~10$.Only properly working store that I know of is tme.eu, but their offer is fairly limited.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:48:04 am
content: Quote from: Dajgoro on June 19, 2017, 05:52:34 pmThere are a few reasons why you might get refused service, but technology transfer should not be an issue as Croatia is a signatory to the Wassenaararrangement:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangementwhich is a common restriction list for dual use material/technology/knowledgehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technologyDid you try to order them to a personal rather than business address? It might be time to switch to a reseller who can navigate all the international restrictions for you for a smaller premium than you are paying now.The other more frustrating block might be a regional distribution deal where there is an exclusive distribution deal for specific parts to your geographic region. But when you get rejected you don't always know why and it can be hard to find out the reasons, go to the manufacturers website for the chips and see who they recommend as the distributor in your country.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:53:21 am
content: Some general tips to get around most restrictions:1. Connect to the webstore via a VPN, using a server in the webstore's country. This avoids being redirected to a regional site (close to you) with inferior pricing and restricted product range, based on your IP address. You see what local customers see. It's not always necessary, but it does help in some cases.For VPNs, check out the latest recommended list at torrentfreak.com (updated yearly).To check that your browser is not leaking DNS requests, which gives away your true country of origin, go towww.ipleak.net2. Set up a personal freight-forwarder account, so that you have a shipping address more acceptable to the webstore. In the US, for example, many sites will ship some products to a US address only.But it's not just the US. I've used a shipping address in Austria (AT), to get some products out of the UK which were restricted to EU addresses only.I use shipito.com, which gives you addresses in the US and in Austria. The Oregon (OR) address in the US is sales-tax free.To save on shipping, consolidate the packages at the freight forwarder, so that its sends you one large package instead of lots of smaller ones.If you are shipping to Australia, keep the total value of each consolidated shipment under AUD 1000, to avoid GST (goods and services tax).3. Digi-key and other distributors may still want to know why you are buying these products. Tell them the truth - it's for product development or test & measurement or hobby supplies or ... Keep in mind that they are just following the rules. They want your business and your money. They want the sale. Make it easy for them. Have a friendly shipping address.Edit:4. If you haven't done so already, set up a Paypal account. Some webstores will not accept foreign credit cards for payment, but they will usually accept Paypal. Add your freight-forwarder addresses to the shipping addresses in your Paypal account.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 12:13:12 pm
content: the restrictions are obsolete arogance, most of the stuff comes from factory's in asia - the u.s. better pray they dont get sactioned one day.it reminds me of a story last year, an Iranian woman went to the apple-store in newyork while on holiday to buy a couple of fones.they refused saying they were not allowed to sell them if they will be exported to country's on the restricted list.then the woman pointed out that there are apple stores in Iran she could buy from, but the prices are much higher - they didnt have an answer to this!!!

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 12:29:10 pm
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 20, 2017, 01:53:21 amThat might not work since only export stores will ship to my address.Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 20, 2017, 01:53:21 amThat is a good idea.Only issue is that its slower, and sometimes I need some components fast in order to meet a deadline.Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 20, 2017, 01:53:21 amYes.Tho so far Digi-key has been the most annoying of all the stores, so I'm staying as far as possible from it.Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 20, 2017, 01:53:21 amOfc, I've been using paypal for a long time.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: Dajgoro on June 20, 2017, 01:04:31 amIf you ever do intend to visit the US, then finding ways to circumvent anti-terror legislation is probably not a good idea! I guess the worst that will happen is you get some "extreme vetting" at the airport, then sent back.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:29:31 pm
content: The OP's issue probably doesn't have anything to do with anti-terrorism efforts. Years ago, I encountered a similar situation purchasinga switchonline that was rated at 125V, only to be told that the manufacturer restricted the component from being shipped to Australia. I did find a similar switch with a 250V rating which was allowed to be sent to Australia.There could be another subtle issue with imports, or standards may be required for some components. This is a country which has decided to ban incandescent globes from being imported, but is happy to poison the planet with mercury-containing fluoros.I recommend checking EU/Croatian import regulations to see if there are hidden surprises. The EU are known for being regulation junkies, and it wouldn't surprise me if they consider certain piezo buzzers to be a top-priority environmental disaster.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 02:19:28 pm
content: Another thing to consider is that export restrictions may have nothing to do with laws but rather may be a result of distribution agreements. Mouser may be authorized to sell a certain manufacturer's products in North America, but not in Europe. Manufacturers and high level distributors often have to play such games to keep their resellers happy, and vice versa.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 02:28:59 pm
content: Quote from: X on June 20, 2017, 01:29:31 pmPiezo materials, type II ceramic capacitors, certain actuators, and so on, are rich in the toxic metals barium and lead (as zirconate and/or titanate ceramics).They should be on the "RoHS by exemption" list, though, since there's nothing else as good as those materials that can do the same job.Tim

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 02:47:30 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on June 20, 2017, 02:19:28 pm+1 to this.Having worked in European electronics distribution, I know this is a real problem.A lot of manufacturers still have a network of local/regional distributors in Europe that they tend to protect, and who have exclusive contracts for their sales area.When a supplier enters a contract with eg, Mouser or Farnell, they are often barred from selling in certain areas due to existing contracts.I think it is more likely that the OP has run into this problem, rather than export restrictions.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 02:49:03 pm
content: RoHS is irelevent because you dont need to be compliant when repairing non-RoHS equipment.so most stuff pre-1996 and most medical or defense related stuff just for a start.

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 03:47:06 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on June 20, 2017, 01:00:28 pmI am not trying to circumvent anything, that would be impractical. I work on a few projects(as engineer) that should end up on the market eventually, so I'm trying to figure out what works what does not.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 04:58:47 pm
content: yea, spelling error - should read "sanctioned"afterall, they do have to import most stuff now - it will only take pissing off the asians the way they pissed off the arabs in the 70's and got no oil!!

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 05:26:25 pm
content: Don't be afraid, Americans just love Forms, Fill up the form's and that's it. But if you get a refusal is probably because the part or the buyer is considered "critical", in this case, will be hard to get, They ask to fill the form for every foreigner not only you.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 06:05:46 pm
content: First thing, radio spectrum is NOT fully harmonized across EU. Parts of it is, but not all..Second, USA manufacturers and merchants are under heavy scrutiny what is allowed and what is not. ROHS, crypto, classified tech, radio equipment...So they rather err on the safe side..There are many thing you will have problems importing from USA into EU. And also some of them don't know Croatia is in EU, so make additional problems..There are some pieces of technology they will sell only to qualified buyers, whatever that means... Usually means you're not buying 100000 pieces so they don't care...I had problem only once, and that was some radio modules from RS..You are right, Farnell is very slow lately, Mouser is not very quick but not bad, RS is slow also... At least EEVBlog works fine...

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 06:53:05 pm
content: An acquaintance of mine, who lives in Mexico and works with power electronics, attempted to purchase a FLIR camera from Fluke back in 2002.A legitimate use, as mapping heat distribution is of utmost importance with high power-density boards.They told him that the sale was restricted.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:03:52 pm
content: That was likely to be a straight-forward ITAR issue. High-resolution and/or high-frame rate thermal cameras are considered dual use items that require a license / permit in which you solemnly swear not to build a guided missile.This pagegives a nice overview of how complicated the export is for some of their thermal imaging sensors.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:39:30 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on June 20, 2017, 02:47:30 pm^^^ This.Constant problem here in Switzerland, a place with a rich history of exclusive-distributor middlemen whose only job it is to make products more expensive. (For example, when Apple products were still distributed by a distributor, they cost solidly 30-50% more than in USA. When Apple switched to having a local presence itself, the price difference evaporated, with the products costing anywhere from about 5%lessto about 10% more than in USA.)

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:39:51 pm
content: Summarizing my own experience and that identified above there are three four main reasons shipping things across borders gets complicated.1. Weapons control laws. Wassenaar is the big one, but many countries have their own additions to this. I am sure that both Iraq and Iran have laws about weapons transfer to the other. They are not alone in this. Sometimes commercial entities get involved. Back when Motorola was still a semiconductor producer they decided they would not allow their products to be used in the manufacture of land mines. They put some significant effort into preventing sales to people who might be making land mines.2. Environmental control laws. ROHS is the biggy, but by far is not the only thing in play. Some seem nutty to me. One member of the EU was trying to restrict copper at one point. Others make sense in general, but there is no universal agreement on the specifics. How many parts per million of an evil substance can be contained? What proofs of purity?3. Punitive trade restrictions. One country won't let another import goat wax to protect local producers of goat wax. The other retaliates by preventing import of left handed dog polishers. Large trade agreements like the EU and NAFTA have reduced but not eliminated this kind of nonsense.4. Commercial distribution agreements. Entities are given exclusive sales rights in a given region. This can be a good or bad thing for some end users, but always ends up hurting someone.Often all of this is handled by the legal or export controls departments of large distributors and organizations. The people taking and fulfilling orders have no idea what the source of any restriction is, only that the computer says no.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:46:07 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 20, 2017, 12:06:13 amYes Farnell and RS are UK/Europe based, you could call them alternatives if they could be bothered to stock anything and have decent search engines plus list items properly. Every time I use farnell I find a specification error. Mouser is another and better on stock.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 12:34:49 am
content: You could buy from AliBaba/AliExpress or any other number of various small Chinese webshops.

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 03:10:45 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 20, 2017, 06:05:46 pmWhats the deal with that?Do they run separate servers for export?Setting filters takes forever, as if the server is running on a 486 machine!?Here is an export store link:http://export.farnell.com/c/semiconductors-ics/microcontrollers-mcuQuote from: amyk on June 21, 2017, 12:34:49 amThat might work for production.Any other good mainland eu shops except tme and conrad that are reasonable?Edit:Offtopic: Is it only me, or the spec filters on arrow are a bit lacking?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 09:03:19 am
content: Rapid electronics owned by Conrad are good but are hard to search and don't have as much stuff as the main distributors.Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 11:14:36 am
content: Reichelt(website available in German, English and French) is decent. The parametric search is worse than Digikey/Mouser, however. But better than Conrad.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 04:09:13 pm
content: I use Bürklin a lot. Very good offering and service.https://www.buerklin.com

author: tronde
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 05:50:06 pm
content: Distrelec is European based.https://www.distrelec.com/global/