New IDE for STM32 MCUs... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 10:32:57 am
content: ...ops, not really, they (STMicroelectronics) acquired Atollic TrueSTUDIOhttp://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/about/media-center/press-item.html/c2839.html

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 10:40:39 am
content: QuoteCool

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 11:41:43 pm
content: Surprised it took this long for them to have a polished IDE (like mplab or AS), yes I know open system workbench is available, but it did not appear to have a lot of funding/devs.Some more discussion here:https://community.st.com/thread/45906-stmicroelectronics-acquires-atollic

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 09:16:01 am
content: MPLAB is polished?

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 09:28:19 am
content: Do you think the next release of the pro version will be free?

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 04:01:03 pm
content: The other big question is what will happen to TrueStudio's support for other platforms. I can't see ST putting any more effort into that, which would be a shame.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 05:58:44 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on December 15, 2017, 04:01:03 pmYes, that's what usually happens afterwards. Support for other platform will be gone for good.One example: There's a company named Yogitech, making functional safety support libraries for a variety of platforms (thrown in all well known uC vendors here), including STM32. Yogitech was acquired by Intel, just after Intel acquired Altera (which was one of the platforms Yogitech supported). Guess what happened to all platforms but Altera?Yep, they weren't allowed to support them anymore ... For a giant like Intel, that's a simple way to hinder competitors, as they'll all have to find new ways to support functional safety for their products.I guess STM was in the need to provide a decent free IDE / debug platform now, since most of their competitors have such stuff (some better, some worse). The Cube SW alone isn't enough, and thehttp://www.openstm32.org/HomePageIDE - nice try, but below usual standards.

author: mac.6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 06:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on December 15, 2017, 04:01:03 pmThey won't, same for other vendors also...

author: jaycee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 01:14:04 pm
content: Honestly ? Just give me a gcc toolchain I can drive from code::blocks, makefiles or whatever other system I want

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 01:25:14 pm
content: Quote from: jaycee on December 16, 2017, 01:14:04 pmThat's my usual way, too. In the past I spent some effort to make the CubeMX output usable with my Makefiles ... breaks every time they update CubeMX.

author: tboy32
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 08:43:34 am
content: I recently designed a project using a couple STM32's and used Eclipse and the free GNU MCU plugins fromhttps://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/. The setup took a long time but after getting it figured out it worked well, although that's the only dev environment I've used for the STM32 so I can't compare it to other solutions.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 01:47:53 am
content: this totally sucks...I've been using atollic on and off (and pretty consistently since it came out with the free lite version) for years. I'm currently using atollic with STM32 on one project but the whole point of using atollic is it just works for LOTS of processors.Now ST have come along with their moneybag and ruined things for everyone else using atollic for any other processor manufacturer.funnily enough, the details just showed up in my atollic truestudio IDE while I was using it...http://blog.atollic.com/early-holiday-gift-from-stmicroelectronicsAs far as I'm concerned this is a reason to NOT use STM32 in future projects.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 01:55:15 am
content: also, given ST micro's crappy track record of supporting their hardware with developer tools, I'll be surprised if they keep all of atollic's developers in work. So on top of becoming a locked down crippleware version of its former self, it's also going to become abandonware and rot away soon enough, till it's as garbage as cubeMX and sw4stm32.So even STM32 developers are going to be losing a well maintained and tuned professional eclipse/gcc solution in the not so distant future...PS, they have said that all support for other processors is being dropped for their next release... Maybe a good idea to save a copy of the 8.10 installer for future use if you have any existing non-STM32 projects you need to support in future!

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 02:06:44 am
content: Anyway, looks like I'm moving my general arm cortex m development back out of windows, and back to a linux VM...Or maybe I'll see what that hacky little plugin for VS is like nowdays.... It's been a year, maybe that's improved to the point of being properly useful now.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:01:28 am
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on December 19, 2017, 01:55:15 amI was wondering if that would happen.The cynical might say that STM don't need to acquire an IDE and this is simply a cheap way for STM to eliminate quality tools used for competitor MCUs.US companies are sitting on big piles of cash, after they have finished snapping up the big fish, I guess they are turning their attention to the small fry, Eagle, FreeRTOS, Atollic. On the hand, I suspect a business plan for some small companies is to create products that fill a niche for particular vendors, and hope to be bought out.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:10:18 am
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on December 19, 2017, 08:01:28 amQuote

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:19:52 am
content: Non-US companies may also be sitting on big piles of cash. Use your brain, FFS.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 02:57:00 pm
content: Quote from: jaycee on December 16, 2017, 01:14:04 pmThat's what I would ultimately suggest as well.Learn how to do without IDEs.makeandgccare not going to be abandoned any time soon. As long as your target is supported by gcc, you'll probably be fine for maybe decades.A lot of IDEs actually use a gcc toolchain and makefiles behind the scenes. You can take a look at the generated makefiles to get you started rolling your own.ARM GNU toolchains can be found here:https://developer.arm.com/open-source/gnu-toolchain

author: douardda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:58:17 pm
content: I agree the "learn without IDE" approach...Also you can have a look athttp://platformio.org/which is a great development environment for embedded and microcontrollers based applications. Based on solid CLI tools, it also provide some IDE-like stuff based on atom or vscode.DavidEnvoyé de mon GT-N7105 en utilisant Tapatalk

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 05:00:26 pm
content: Quote from: jaycee on December 16, 2017, 01:14:04 pmhttps://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embeddedworks just fine.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 12:10:56 am
content: sorry, but it's not the 70s anymore.a proper IDE allows you to easily refactor code, dig into structure, chase down objects through the codebase, it allows you to interact with the debugger, and with the advanced features of atollic, to profile execution, to debug your application in awareness of freeRTOS, to communicate with the running application via a terminal over segger RTT, and it allows you to do all of this via a single consistent interface..... All of this doesn't need to be configured manually for every single person in the project who needs to work on it, they just install a single exe file and from there it all just works.Sure you can replace all this with a bunch of separate things.... and manual configuration of toolchains is possible (yes i can do it) but for a single engineer it's a waste of time, and when you add in a team it becomes worse - you end up with a whole bunch of steps where someone can stuff up and get a non-compliant toolchain. so with a team that means you also need to check everything, not just at setup time to make sure everyone is using all the right things, but regularly in case someone updates something for some reason or some system level config (like say $PATH) just got stomped by something unrelated...... You also have to train everyone on the way each individual tool needs to work, and how to make them work together and then constantly be debugging and verifying everyone's setup... what a waste of time that could just be spent developing a solution!

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 04:16:33 am
content: Given that Atollic is mostly a nicely-wrapped Eclipse+embedded tools package (at least the free version is, the pro version has some pretty extensive debugging and profiling tools), it seems like a good opportunity for an open source project to go after the same niche. There are numerous projects around embedded toolchains, but I don't think I've seen any take that extra step of going "here's a ready-made installer for Windows, one for Mac, and [whatever makes sense for Linux]". That's a big deal when trying to get takeup among people who don't care to muck around with toolchains and just want to start building their projects. I was just looking at one where the Windows setup instruction start with "install make. . ."-- nope, you've already lost right there. It's two thousand fucking seventeen, nobody wants to build your software from source just to see if it sucks or not.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 04:50:36 pm
content: That is great news, but I see a huge overlap with systemworkbench. Also, it would be nice if their example code was more useful.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 05:01:39 pm
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on December 20, 2017, 12:10:56 amI have been on both sides of the fence. I started with ARM and windows and a developed tool chain, then I went to a company that was Linux and everything was in the command line. At the end of the day, it is about what your company is wiling to support (and the pride that the software people have). For me, the best option is what would appease everyone. Just because you use an IDE does not mean you cannot do it without an IDE, also. That is how it eventually went at my last company. You had to make minor changes, but we were able to make everything work whether you use an IDE or if you preferred the command line and some notepad editor.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 06:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: douardda on December 19, 2017, 04:58:17 pmI was sold until i realized you have to pay for the debugger.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 06:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on December 20, 2017, 05:01:39 pmThat's a good approach in my opinion.At some companies, you also have to consider that some automated process is in place for generating the embedded software builds in a repeatable and controlled manner. Those automated processes usually rely on makefiles and command-line tools, so that's actually a good thing, even a necessity, that developers know how to use them. Even if they use IDEs in their daily routine.

author: mac.6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:37:10 pm
content: Or use CMake, can generate makefile and visual/eclipse project files. But quite a steep curve to learn.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on December 15, 2017, 09:16:01 amYes... polished turd that is.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 08:15:01 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on December 20, 2017, 07:43:41 pmI would call that Reverse Polished Notation.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 09:46:58 pm
content: Poor Microchip fanboys here

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2018, 05:06:04 am
content: Welp, that didn't take long.The good news is that the pro features are now free for STM32. So there's good reason to update to 9.0, but best to keep 8.1 or earlier around just in case.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2018, 12:03:50 am
content: There is nothing that SW4STM32 does that atollic truestudio isn't better at.This is why I don't trust ST to look after atollic properly.. they already HAD a gcc and eclipse offering that they could do anything with they wanted, and it was mediocre at best.As for Keil - well, if your company is used to using Keil for STM32 projects, chances are you already needed to use more than M0 parts at some point anyway - so you've needed full Keil already... at worst it comes down to a business decision - "do we buy the license for the software that all our existing codebase is written with? or do we migrate?" but really for any business relying on using keil licenses for free, well, they really should have thought that through before now.the hugest loss in this situation is anyone (me included) who has non STM32 projects in Atollic. Yeah I can migrate to any other eclipse/GCC, but the point of atollic is it just worked properly. was fast and simple to setup a client or subcontractor with, and it had the option of upgrading to much more powerful features than normal gcc/eclipse if and when it was needed....The next biggest loss is anyone already using STM32 with atollic... yeah they have a huge bonus now with the full power of atollic available for free, but they are still losing out. Because no way is atollic going to stay state of the art, we already know just how little ST cares about good software. It's going to rot. the only question is how fast.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 08:56:09 am
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on January 22, 2018, 12:03:50 amBump. Almost a year later, do you still think this is the case?

author: lucazader
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 07:36:38 pm
content: They have done a few releases since acquisition. The most recent on was in October (https://atollic.com/release-news/atollic-truestudio-stm32-9-1-0-released/)However in saying this, they haven't bumped the GCC version up yet (7.3.1 arm-none-eabi was released in June).Most of the changes seem to have just been improving the GDB server and code download etc.