32bit MCUs from Russia - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 09:23:34 pm
content: FYI - I came across this web page with various MCUs offered - made in Russia:https://ic.milandr.ru/products/mikrokontrollery_i_protsessory/https://ic.milandr.ru/soft/

author: Deni
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 09:43:22 pm
content: Interesting Cortex-M4 device with ARINC and Spacewire serial controllers. Gives a hint what's main target app.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 10:03:09 pm
content: Most of the packages (not counting silicon) would cost you an arm and a legThat M4F is RADHARD with ECC flash/sram

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 10:22:12 pm
content: The company is super frustrating to deal with. They are not really consumer-oriented.I'm not sure if they got better, but previously even getting datasheets was like pulling teeth. Eval kits were also sparse.But they do seem to be functional enough.

author: GromBeestje
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 07:30:50 pm
content: I've heard about Milandr as being mentioned as a Russian producer of STM32 clones. When you visithttp://www.milandr.ru/from the EU it throws you tohttp://www.milandr.biz/Their "west" facing website doesn't mention those microcontrollers. Thanks for the links that don't throw me off. I'll have a look around some time when I got some time.As I've been playing around with some Chinese clones, it would be fun to have some Russian clones to play with as well, but I have no clue how to get them here in the EU.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 07:41:56 pm
content: They are not really clones. They are heavily inspired by overall STM architecture, but that's mostly because STMs are the most popular MCU by far in Russia. But they are not compatible in so many ways, that any other MCU based on ARM core would also be considered a "clone".They did start by producing PIC clones, which were fully compatible with minor differences. For those they actually publish a document describing differences with the original in details.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 08:48:22 pm
content: You will get this nice package with stm32 from Milandr:https://sudonull.com/post/1204-Modbus-on-the-Russian-microcontroller-K1986BE92QIPS: that "dynamic current consumption" in that mini-datasheet with <120mA @80MHz @3.6V, hopefully a typo

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 09:08:04 pm
content: Those Soviet-style documents, packaging, and part numbers make me sad. This stuff gets them into Russian military stuff, but would prevent them from being used in commercial stuff. Would probably not help with getting into foreign markets. Not that they can/want to get into foreign markets anyway.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 04:42:12 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 13, 2020, 09:08:04 pmUnified part numbering is the single best thing ever happened! I wish it would be the same elsewhere, so I won't have to study numbering schemes of each and every vendor.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 04:50:17 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 13, 2020, 09:08:04 pmYeah, like China, a significant reason for developing those products is to become fully independent, so they don't care much about selling them outside of Russia IMO. They may not even want that to happen.It sure made me curious though.

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 09:37:44 pm
content: Quote from: imo on February 12, 2020, 09:23:34 pmMy guess is that they are repackaging in Russia into this foil , but ... made in China. It is not that hard to guess , just look at wikipedia how this technology complex looks like ...

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 09:51:11 pm
content: Bad guess. Milandr designed those ICs. They are actually the first ARM licensee from Russia.I can't guarantee that manufacturing of the specific ICs was not outsourced to TSMC or someone else like that. But they do own manufacturing equipment up to 28 nm. It is not a full scalable producton line, but they also don't manufacture a lot, so it all works out.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 12:38:23 am
content: Randomly clicked on this part and it's interesting both physically and technically:https://ic.milandr.ru/products/radiatsionno_stoykie_mikroskhemy/1923vk014/The fact that it can be used as a standalone MCU, or as a peripheral co-processor, or as a pure peripheral IC is pretty neat, but a pretty clear sign that the target market probably gives no shits about the price tag (in case the fact that it's radhard wasn't enough of a hint).For the package, I guess you're expected to form the leads to your own requirements at assembly time? The datasheet for this one shows a 0.5mm pitch, would it generally be formed for SMT assembly (basically a half-finished QFP?)? That sort of lead forming sounds like something that should be someone else's problemhttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:K145IK2A_Soviet_IC.jpg

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 01:19:53 am
content: I had a look at the technical specificationhttps://ic.milandr.ru/upload/iblock/8bf/8bfa8749d5f2dc47beac2108dcb9da1b.pdfFascinating to see how much of things such as signal names, functional units, memory maps, timing diagrams, state transition diagrams are in English, even for something intended purely for use in Russia. And not just things copied from the Cortex M-0 manual, but custom parts.Weirdly, V for Volts is written as U e.g. Ucc. Maybe it's just the typeface. Normal Russian usage is the same Volts, voltage etc as English, just transliterated e.g. волтаж and it's common in apartments to see "240 В" written on a placard next to electrical sockets or "осторожно! 6 кВ" or similar on a transformer box.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 03:28:45 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 25, 2020, 01:19:53 amIn Russia, voltage is always denoted as "U" across engineering and science, so for example Ohm's law in its' simplest form would go like I = U/R. There is a standard which describes which symbol is to be used for what, and all engineering documentation for a product needs to comply with it (among many others) in order to be eligible for state procurement contracts (and many large private companies tend to adopt similar requirements), which goes down to a component level for certain industries (mostly mission-critical things like aerospace, medical, nuclear etc., as well as military).

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 04:21:16 am
content: Ahh .. interesting that scientific/engineering usage is different to .. "civilian" usage.I'm still fascinated that, for example, "RealTime Clock, Watchdog" is felt ok to leave only in English, "processor" is only in Russian, and PMU has both "PMU" and the Russian translation of expanded "Power Management Unit".

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 05:21:02 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 25, 2020, 04:21:16 amThey are walking a fine line. If they make it entirely in Russian, nobody would know what is going on. All those military and aerospace companies hire people that only worked with foreign part and are familiar with terminology. At the same time they want to follow documentation standards to the extent possible.Realistically, if it was up to them entirely, there would be way more English. It is actually one of the most common complaints about those parts - it is weird to read technical documentation in Russian.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 07:12:41 am
content: Quote from: asmi on February 25, 2020, 03:28:45 amIn other countries as well. "U" means voltage in "V"olts.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 07:17:56 am
content: Wonder why they don't just transliterate the English terms into CyrillicIf you read a Chinese datasheet you see mostly kanji, but a lot of them are loanwords from English. Same thing in Japanese, but here it's very obvious because the English terms are in katakana:I can read that even though I don't know Japanese (the words here are all a mix of English and Chinese): "ko-re-ku-ta be-su <voltage>" (collector-base voltage).Btw any info on Russian FPGAs?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 07:22:18 am
content: Quote from: OwO on February 25, 2020, 07:17:56 amThere were clones of some early Altera CPLDs. But I'm pretty sure they all died. Military still uses them probably, but commercially they make no sense. Plus they never produced any software for them, so you had to use pirated Quartus.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 08:04:21 am
content: "Catalogue of Russian R&D organizations and companies eager to develop internationalcooperation in semiconductor design with European partners"from 2010..

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 09:12:15 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 25, 2020, 07:22:18 amThey licensed Cyclone II IP from Altera (and acquired production line), and then made some improvements (mostly in DSP from what I heard, but I have no first-hand experience with them).Quote from: ataradov on February 25, 2020, 07:22:18 amAnd you'd be wrong. At least as of a couple years ago, these are the only officially approved rad-hard FPGAs, and they are still very much in production.Quote from: ataradov on February 25, 2020, 07:22:18 amThey were never meant for commercial use.Quote from: ataradov on February 25, 2020, 07:22:18 amThis is not true as well, which makes sense as how would Quartus know anything about their customizations.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 09:15:21 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 25, 2020, 07:50:18 amIsn't that so because it's easier to hide stolen IP this way?

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 09:43:19 am
content: Now I wonder why a taxpayer sponsored organization is allowed to license patents? Shouldn't it grant royalty free use to the public, or at least to citizens?Btw my organization's main work is publicizing ideas and workable implementations (in the field of communications systems), to block future potential patents. I consider both Qualcomm and Huawei a threat, because they are constantly filing shitloads of frivolous patents.

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 10:31:50 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 24, 2020, 09:51:11 pmRight, I found in wikipedia full listing who is manufacturing them and information about technology proces.That is interesting the other way - 20 y old technology is still in use. Who knows maybe that museal technology is more suitable for radiation hardening like vacuum tubes or technology embargo does not let them buy something modern.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 12:29:33 pm
content: A Russian FPGA manufacturer (plus a lot of other semiconductors):http://www.vzpp-s.ru/about.htmCatalogue of parts:http://www.vzpp-s.ru/production/catalog.pdfCPLD/FPGA - pages 5-9, mainly Altera "analogs"

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 01:01:08 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on February 25, 2020, 09:43:19 amThis has become a common thing over here actually in public research organizations, and I think in quite a few other countries.I admit it is debatable, but the idea is to give "value" to research work while allowing them to get an additional source of revenue - which means less pressure from tax money.