Looking for Small Hi Res LCD used in Oculus && || VR et al - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 12:54:39 am
content: hi i have an idea similar to this. hi res small monitor and magnifying lens in front of the eye... i want to ensure higher clarity, not china crap 240p nor 480p.. i think product like oculus or some RC drone goggles used this kind of LCD, not sure what spec, i'm guessing 1080p or 768p on 2 or 3" LCD? does any of you own such a product and can share your experience? anyone know where to get this small hi density LCD? i cant justify spending $400 or more for one of those goggles just to figure out this particular element, thanks.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 02:14:49 am
content: The high quality goggles typically use a pair of LCD or OLED displays in the 0.3"-0.75" range. Cheaper box style goggles use a single TFT panel, either similar to those cheap backup camera monitors or a smartphone display.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 04:34:24 am
content: any idea where to get these LCD/OLED?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 04:41:31 am
content: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/vr-oled-display.html

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 10:14:06 am
content: thanks for the keyword, i didnt know its that simple..

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 10:35:07 am
content: AFAIK, the Oculus devices used to use Samsung smartphone screens - I believe DK2 kit used literally a smartphone screen whole, including the touchscreen still attached. The smartphone display shows images for both eyes.The newer models CV1 and Quest use two custom LCDs, one per eye, most likely from Samsung as well.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 01:21:08 pm
content: yeah. from james 1st post, it got me thinking. i have china cheap goggle for smartphone. so i retried it on my samsung's SP monitor, i can say its quite acceptable. i saw samsung galaxy replacement lcd for $23 incl repair acc. where vr specific oled is much more expensive ~$50+ the cheapest in aliexpress (for one eye). so i guess samsung SP 5-6" monitor (for both eyes) could be an option too. but how difficult to interface with them and produce double image (from one or two cameras) is another story... there is one board and 2 oled setup in aliexpress but... $180+

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 01:32:47 pm
content: btw. just trying few lcd around me. SJCAM (GoPro knock off) vs SAMSUNG GALAXY A7 lcd. SJCAM has more visible pixelation behind the magnifying lens, but when looking under microscope, they actually have the same pitch, except SAMSUNG one uses bayer pattern (diagonal). so bayer pattern actually works to make lcd looks better.

author: kathy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 09:10:18 am
content: I think what you need would be atiny oled screen, as i know, there are 0.4" oled screen with 960x480 pixels high resolution, it is mainly for the glass that used in medical or military application.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 09:42:25 am
content: ditto! except what you linked is 64x32 pixels oled 2:1 ratio monitor. conventional 3:2 or normal tv/monitor ratio will be much comfortable to an eye imho. if 480p or 768p can be fitted in 0.4" lcd size, that is an achievement already.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 02:52:52 pm
content: I think for VR, if that is what you are trying to achieve, the screens are the easy bit. It's the lenses that are the golden bit to give the wide field of view and create the immersion. That and pre-distorting the image displayed on the screen so it looks like wrap around vision in the goggles. That and of course the 6 axis head tracking.I have used video goggles (for FPV flying) which was basically two tiny half inch LCD displays mounted in a headset, even supported 3D movies. It was absolutely nothing in comparison to the oculus rift. In the TV goggles it literally looked like you were looking at a small screen about 6 foot away from you. With the Oculus lenses they open the view wide, bring the "world" out around you, nearly covering your whole eye movement with your head stationary, allowing you to literally look around with your eyes.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 03:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 08, 2020, 02:52:52 pmthanks for sharing your experience. so.. is oculus rift using small lcd/oled too? or light projector type such as used in Avegant Glyph and Microsoft HoloLens? afaik the spec indicates its using small lcd/oled (istr saw the resolution spec but cant find it now) it will be interesting to try (buy?) the oculus rift if its using small lcd but the view can cover large eye vision area (special lens?) without visible lcd pixelation.i'm not sure if retinal light projection is usable in camera -> lcd -> lens -> eye application such as FPV. even if i can get lcd and lens or projector that can cover near 180 degrees eye vision, then i have to find fish eye camera suitable for it, another rarity. and then distortion and image fidelity will be another issue when what i want is to focus on a particular area or zoomed in view, tunnel view is what i think i'm looking for, retinal projection or augmented reality is another uncharted territory. but keep the idea in its appreciated.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 05:48:53 pm
content: cv1 is oled

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 06:01:19 pm
content: There are VR cameras. It's how the shoot VR movies. They are usually limited to 180* (though 360* 3D camera do exist) obviously a fixed position, but you can look around and they give you a 3D view which spans 180* vertical and 180* horizontal. The 3D can really bring things into life-like, especially things up close in your face. I have no idea of the cost of availability though. i wouldn't imagine they would be that expensive as 360* cameras are readily available, a 180* 3D camera can't be that much.On pixelation. With the Oculus if you stare off into space, you can see what they call a "screen door effect", in that if you concentrate you can see the pixel boundaries. However when immersed in a game or movie you really don't notice these, you actually have to look for them to see them.For gaming the resolution is adequate but is not even quite as good as a solid 1080p monitor, or at least that is the perception. The screens from memory are 1080*1200x2, yes they are vertical aspect and the mirror on the monitor for some games shows this with an odd vertical narrow window. When people upload videos they usually crop them, like I did in the one below.On zooming down a tunnel vision, tele-photo style. This is where the immersion actually starts to hurt. The oculus does such a good job of tuning into your natural vision centres that when you do anything that your brain does not expect you can feel nauseous. In the video below there might be one or two moments I use the "VR Zoom" function and it can be a bit upsetting. I'm fine with it, but looking around while zoomed in can be a bit freaky.On nausea, I am usually fairly okay with things, so much time spend flying in flight sims and FPV I'm resilient, but a few things have brought me close to barfing. Playing games where you walk around using the keyboard can be slightly naseating, especially if you also rotate with the mouse as your brain is confused by apparent visual motion of you body it can't account for. But the one that immediately made my remove the headset was when the Flight Sim in the video below had a bug where when you re-flew a mission the VR coordinate system reversed itself. Looking left moved your vision right, up was down and moving your head side to side went in the mirror direction. That immedaitely caused me to wretch and remove the headset!

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 06:16:05 pm
content: 3D 180 camera look fairly easy to get.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 06:52:17 pm
content: feel like i want to get one lol what sim is that?

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 12:06:02 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 03, 2020, 01:32:47 pmThat's a colour OLED pattern, and indeedthe Samsung Galaxy A7 has an OLED display.Quote from: paulca on January 08, 2020, 06:01:19 pmThrottles to 100% the moment you hit the deck, otherwise if you miss the arrestor wires (or your simulator simulates the hook bouncing over them, though it's unlikely to be that accurate) you will end up wet.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 08:10:08 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 08, 2020, 06:52:17 pmDCS WorldIt's free with two planes and one (soon to be two) maps, but add-on modules and maps are payware. It's not an arcade game though, the F18 in my video costs about $60 and has taken me nearly a year to master. The enemy are rather unforgiving too.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 08:14:23 am
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on January 09, 2020, 12:06:02 amIt does. If you even have the AoA wrong you are likely to encounter hook bounce. Each wire is simulated, I caught the 1 wire which is bad and if you watch "the ball" on the left side of the carrier you will see I sank a little close in which is why I caught the 1 wire. You are aiming for the three wire.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 11:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 09, 2020, 08:14:23 amThe way I heard it, the reason they don't go for that wire is it makes them seem chicken. The balls on those pilots ...

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 11:05:13 am
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on January 09, 2020, 11:17:46 pmNo, it's because there are 4 wires. The ideal point to aim is the exact mid point of the wires. If you land the hook in that exact centre point, you catch the next wire which is the 3rd wire.Snagging the 1 wire is considered the worst wire, it highlights you were low/sinking/slow and this has the highest risk of striking the back of the ship which makes an awful mess.The hardest thing I find, when "close in", is trusting the ball. Because the hook is nearly 50 feet behind you and due to your AoA around 12-15* it's a good 10 foot below you, you are actually aiming at the last third/quarter of the deck. There is a "velocity vector" or "flight path marker" on the HUD and it ends up well down towards the end of the deck when the hook hits and rear wheel hit in the middle of the wires. I almost always sink a little and get the 2 wire or 1 wire.That an the fact the ship is moving and the deck is angled. For this there is a little cheat. You aim at the "crotch" of the ship. The point the bow extends from the end of the landing area, so aiming slightly right of the centre line, (as you can see if my video), when you get close in, you fly straight and the ship kind of sails under your and you land on the centre line.It's actually really hard to do even in a sim, no chance of dying, no G-forces, but still a challenge. I have been flying sims for over 30 years and it took me a week of evenings to make a plausibly successful landing, including all the Case I recovery overhead break etc. Normally you extend a mile or more beyond the ship, before the flight breaks one at a time, 15 seconds apart. The "Break over the deck" like I did in the video is the "fancy pants" version as it gives you zero time on the downwind to sort yourself out.I got the idea from the first landing here:

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 04:46:57 pm
content: checking PC requirement for Oculus products, they only support Win10 (no Win7) so this is putting me off for a while. then i saw HTC Vive can support Win7, maybe another alternative, same oled resolution and angle of view. and after watching some youtubes, it seems operation with HTC Vive is much more convenient. with Oculus has compatibility issues with USB (power) controller, bug in motion tracking etc.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:00:37 pm
content: The trouble with Vive is nobody supports it natively. For example Steam offer, "Normal", "Oculus" and "Steam VR", which means you have to use Steam VR and have two layers of interfacing. Still, Steam VR isn't "that bad". Outside of Steam I have no idea what anything supports.Isn't the Vive really expensive? When I was buying the Oculus which was £399 then, Vive was like £750!Also, Windows 10 versus Windows 7 is like night and day. Literally Windows 10 actually works and is at least 4 times faster than windows 7. If you are worried about privacy, just firewall the microsoft and aws IPs it uses for telemetry.On Oculus bugs, the only one I have ever experienced is it not coming back out of sleep. It has a LDR sensor to detect when you are wearing the headset. When you take it off it switches off it's display. Occasionally when I go to put it back on, I get a black screen. It's easily fixed by restarting the Oculus software, but... that unfortunately exits your game. That said this happens rarely, but it can be annoying. An easy fix would be to stick something over the sensor so it doesn't sleep while you are gaming.Oh and not really fair, but if you connect the Oculus headset HDMI, but do not connect it's USB, my PC won't even POST.On the plus side the head tracking is amazingly resilient. I accidently knocked one of my sensors behind the monitor and wondered why occasionally at certain angles the oculus would rock back and forward. When I spotted the sensor was ocluded behind the monitor I moved it. There was no chance it was in the same location, but the oculus just recalibrated seemlessly and all I had to do was recentre the view in game. It's far, far more resilient than say "Track IR" which has to be recentred and messed around with constantly.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:14:53 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 10, 2020, 06:00:37 pmVive is Steam VR native developed by HTC and valve.QuotePerformance is better as well. Current cheapest model of Vive is not that much more expensive.QuoteAnd performance was way better.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:38:21 pm
content: I guess it really depends on what you are doing with it. For example I don't use a "play space" all my games sit down games. The controllers stay in the box, never use them. I tend never to play the "Store" games like Beat Sabre as I find them old and low quality graphics compared to VR supporting AAA game. They are fun for the first day for that first "Wow!" factor, but once you sit in an F18 at 30,000 feet looking at the Nevada dessert under fluffy clouds below you, the VR Store games pale.I don't see many reviews suggesting the Vive performs better. The specs are nearly identical, so I'm curious what you mean.One thing to be careful of in the VR Space is it's (arguably) over bias on FPS and tracking delay. Early on it was found that quite a few people felt "sea sick" if the framerate dropped or was inconsistent or there was any kind of lag in the display. The VR community because obsessed with this however and depending on yourself and how you feel, it's often not an issue. Sure a freeze up where the game pauses for a second is jarring and excessive lag makes you feel drunk, 40FPS is tolerable.One consequence of this and I'm not sure that Vive has this issue, the Oculus implements what they call ASW, Asynchronous Spacial Warp (or whatever). So if you are not getting 90FPS it will interpolate frames. I find this exceedingly annoying as it morphs frames together with a kind of sawtooth pattern that absolutely destroys definitions of panels, gauges and causes horrible artefacts in things like chain link fences or detailed textured objects. Thankfully you can turn it off, but it always defaults back to on. If you are one of the "sea sick" people you might prefer this, but other than when the tracking reversed itself and Alien Isolation, I never feel sick in VR and I've spent 2 hours straight in one go and about 12 hours in one day in VR.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:42:23 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 10, 2020, 06:00:37 pmi'm looking at the used market. i can grab one CV1 for about $300+ now, there are also few vive thats currently on $200+, but bidding is on the go, i'll wait how much the price will end. for the purpose for only SIMming and gaming, i'm not sure if i'm willing to spend $400+ for any of them, add $100 more for shipping cost to here. we have them sale locally, even if shipping cost will be like $10, but they are $600+ price range (new, no used unit on sale here)Quote from: paulca on January 10, 2020, 06:00:37 pmi experienced the other way. we have 2 machine on Win10 here, the one is PC for printing shop, over time, and now it boots very slowly. the other is SWMBO new laptop, got it updated last year, and now its like turtle slow, SWMBO always complaining, i dont want to touch it she asked for it (latest boombastic OS) i dont care much about privacy, there is very little to hide here. further, the most powerful PC currently at home is used HP Z800 workstation, 12 x 3.46GHz Xeon 96GB RAM and Radeon RX580 8GB, its natively (originally) designed for Win7 and came with a S/N, i think its the only machine that can pass PC requirement and i dont feel like to upgrade it to Win10, i can, but what its worth for? not much i think, for me. and i'm one of the rare believer that older OS is much stable than the latest one (putting aside security matter)

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:47:38 pm
content: Interesting your experience with Windows 10.I have it on the main gaming PC, Ryzen2700X,16Gb,1070Ti and Windows 10 boots in about 1/3rd the time it takes the motherboard to POST. Desktop in about 40 seconds with 30 of those spend waiting on the Bios to post the Asus logo. The monitors switching into full res usually takes longer than it does for the login screen to appear and I can get my pin code in before it does usually.I also have two S/H Dell small form factor PCs as media centres and I let them "fall asleep", both wake with a single press from the wireless keyboard and by the time you turn the TV on they are at the login screen. These are like 2nd gen i5's 2.9 with 8Gb RAM.The one thing however I think Windows 10 loves is an SSD. I know Windows 7 runs faster on an SSD but Windows 10 seems to thrive on it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2020, 01:41:49 am
content: Quote from: paulca on January 10, 2020, 06:38:21 pmIf you compare old vive model which is now much cheaper and new oculus specs look similar. Still even on old vive tracking is much better than on new oculus. Also it has wider viewing angle. But you can also buy vive pro.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2020, 04:35:35 pm
content: spending more time researching on "immersive" VR more than i expected. its off topic from whats originally intended but i hope its allowed. i figured out we can put larger screens together and the eyes can still focus, its all about the lens in the middle bending the lights, even experimented with and dismantled my china cardboard VR. that was my concern if the screens are too large, eyes have to make "inverted" cross which i'm incapable of doing, but it seems now possible, so screen size is next to irrelevant. ordered another BoboVR Z4 SP goggle $15 should not hurt much, just for fun and experimentation.so back to VR and Flight SIM, what about Pimax? i saw positive reviews from MRTV "The Mr Ang" and Linus Tech et al. and is fully compatible to Vive system. the 8K is too much expensive and not available in fleabay market. the 5K is 200deg (similar to 8K) eye view angle is a huge difference from normally offered by Oculus and Vive 110deg. probably just using similar size and density to Samsung screen (but LCPC? type) not many in fleabay in fact only 2 currently $400-500 used. and there is just few days announced new budget range $450 Pimax Artisan... 170deg diag and 140deg horz is still huge compared to 110deg...https://store.pimaxvr.combut the bad news is i heard they still struggling to fullfill their backers after the years on 8K model.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2020, 05:35:12 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 03, 2020, 01:32:47 pmIt's AMOLED, no LCD. And it's pentile, there are no definite pixels as such.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2020, 06:04:58 pm
content: I'm not sure a wider FOV would be favourable over the higher res. I never find myself wishing for a wider FOV but I do fine myself wishing for a better resolution.I can see how if it got to 170* FOV you might start to get peripheral vision motion effects to enhance the feeling of speed.Having a 1080x1200 screen right in front of your eye sounds great, but it is only a few cm from your eye, if you sit that close to normal 1080p monitor it looks lower res.But.. it's more the expanded field of view that hurts the res. I think if you zoom and focally warp your normal monitor view to include all that the VR headset does you will notice a drop in detail. For me this manifests in the multifunction cockpit displays not being easy to read and on carrier ops you can't make out the "meat ball" at 3/4 mile without using the VR zoom function.8K VR sounds awesome, but I believe the issue is, nothing practical can run it. I'm not sure if it was PiMax or the other one that came out was something like $8000 dollars can came with dedicatedly tuned video cards... yes cards.The Oculus involves two 1200x1080 screens and a mirror on your monitor which you can sometimes reduce in res, sometimes not. It struggles to get 45fps with high details, becomes seriously stuttery with the sliders maxed, where it wouldn't on a single 1440p monitor. This is why most of the "off the shelf" VR games in the occulus store etc. are absolute rubbish, they are so low res, low detail to keep mediocre systems running at 90fps.I haven't watched the LTT video on the 8K VR, I might watch it tonight, but I'm going to guess they are throwing some serious hardware at it, like dual 1080Ti SLIs or similar and probably still complaining about frame rates.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2020, 11:34:05 pm
content: attached is spec comparison that i copied from iirc reddit forum... 8KX is 3840 x 2160, ie basically a full 4K res per eye... native 2 x 4K rendering, from review you will need number one gfx card on the market ie RTX2080 iirc. $1200+ is still cheap (but not that cheap for me) compared to developer's version of StarVR or XTAL VR, not available for muggle like us, even if it is, they are beyond affordability anyway.https://virtualrealitytimes.com/2017/03/06/chart-fov-field-of-view-vr-headsets/the 8K+ is upscaled rendering by built-in MCU. 5K is 2560 x 1440p per eye (twice the rift's or vive's), ie a normal screen size of my monitor here warped into 200 degree field. with latest Artisan, they reduced to 1770 x 1440 res and reduced 170 deg field, closer to what rift/vive offer (but still much greater) at much cheaper price. from the scaling they are trying to do, it seems rational, ie reducing screen resolution and hence reducing field of view to maintain clarity experience as their top 8K version. MRTV Sebastian Ang got in depth into this. he even showed 8K and 5K behind the lens side by side, we both agreed 5K is better rendering and sharpness. its a surprise since 5K is much smaller res screen albeit same FOV. it must have something with drawing algorithm or the lens. and he did try Artisan prototype in CES2020 and concluded its just as good as 5K with better God ray effect. i was just one click from ordering the Artisan from their website, but their less trustworthiness to their backers made me wait for a while, maybe until some youtubers got it into their hand and make a review... new stuff always tempting to click without much thinking...maybe i will keep looking 2.5K res 5K+ 200deg FOV in fleabay used market as an option.