Recommend a low budget very basic small drill press that could mostly do PCB? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 06:29:49 pm
content: Basically, i want a flexible drill press, small, I'm on a very limited budget. How limited? i was hoping I could find something for well under $100, thats good enough quality to be used for a long time. (Not a Dremel-style-tool add on device, at least not the one which ive heard so much criticism of)I just want a solid, very basic small drill press. No frills, for drilling PCBs accurately.It would be nice if it was small enough to put away on a shelf when not in use.I already have a fairly decent small jacobs chuck that I bought at an estate sale. (Edit, it is a very nice quite small model 0 stainless steel chuck that is ideal for electronics- the previous owner was an electronics engineer - Retail on it is $170, so its a nice chuck-) It has an additional "micro touch" wheel and extensible shaft so it can be used to drill very light precise holes. I would like to be able to use that.Basically, while it is drilling you can push it down with your finger rather than the lever, by pushing on a freely rotating ball-bearing mounted aluminum ring. Its my understanding that it can be used for precise drilling.It would be great if in the future I could use whatever I buy as a basis for an automated stage - add an X-Y stage that could be motorized to automate PCB hole drilling.My main problem with doing what I am doing now (using a Dremel-like tool by hand) is uniformity. The holes wander enough to be noticeable. I would like to be able to use the drill press with a jig to make drilling holes precise and easy to space at exactly the same distance apart.Also a stable drill press is easier to set up with a dust collector of some kind.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:13:52 pm
content: > there might be cheaper china sub CNC style drill standsI have no problem of buying from China if its a good value (and not dangerously flimsy)Do you know of any good examples?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:22:19 pm
content: for me it's the best drill press you can get for pcb... but it's more $250 than $100.http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-38128-Bench-Drill-Machine/dp/B0017PUR1Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425928852&sr=8-2&keywords=tbm+220

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on March 09, 2015, 06:56:24 pmAvoid the dremel drill press at all costs. It is a piece of crap.The proxxon one (above) is meant to be quite nice.

author: Trey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:20:29 pm
content: It isn't fancy (no CNC base), but I bought a Rikon 30-100 tabletop drill press on Amazon for $94 last year ($105 today) and have been pleased with it. It is sturdy, stable, and pretty smooth. I haven't drilled PCBs (yet) but it does a good job drilling die-cast enclosures for stomp-boxes.http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B4WKSBE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1Looks like it is blue now - mine is green. You have to assemble it yourself which is easy, but be ready to clean off a LOT of protective grease (that's a good thing).

author: Mark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:22:40 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on March 09, 2015, 07:38:44 pmThere are different versions of the Dremel which have changed over time. Mine is mostly metal and very sturdy, whereas the newer ones look like plastic everywhere.If I was buying again today, I'd get the proxxon as I have other proxxon tools and the quality is very good.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:24:58 pm
content: The Dremel press stands are all supposed to be poor regardless of the vintage.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 09:41:43 pm
content: Quote from: krivx on March 09, 2015, 08:24:58 pm+1the dremel tools are quite nice in themselves. but the drill stand is really not rigid enought you end up breaking a lot of bits.a dremel hold by hand works quite nicely, but in a dremel stand is not usable at all.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 09:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: Trey on March 09, 2015, 08:20:29 pmI think you will have some trouble with 0.8mm or less drill bits with this huge drill press. it's too big for pcb work.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 09:55:49 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 09, 2015, 09:44:36 pmI've used a small press like this at home for years. You will need a bit converter for the smaller drills.Search ebay for "Chuck Adapter Drill Bit Converter"

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 11:28:30 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 09, 2015, 09:44:36 pmlet the man feel it for himself... everything meant for big and heavy, slow rpm, too big chuck needing adapters.... o yea i have one similar in size (from china with love) but no its not for pcb. i also have for pcb, different thing but the thing the OP tries to avoid in everyway from the look of it (and yeah its also from china with love not the authentic dremel ops did i just say that?)...snip...Quotenow thats the ads isnt it? "any type of material" including 0.3mm drill bit, pcb and diamond!

author: Trey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 11:38:30 pm
content: Yes, I agree that doing delicate work with my Rikon (also from China) would be less than ideal. I'd love to have a small mill actually -- but have no love of the price tag. A much smaller press is like better for drilling PCBs, but then enclosure work (my need) might be tough. Life full of compromise for all of us. The OP needs to consider functional needs, space, and budget and try to make the best choice that fits the set of parameters. Good luck!

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 11:46:27 pm
content: Just to prove that cheap solutions can work, as long as they suit the problem:

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 12:48:41 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 09, 2015, 07:22:19 pmSecond that. I've had one for a few years now. It's not quite good enough to use a 0.2mm drill (or I'm not, one of the two) but anything over about 0.28mm is fine. Can't recommend highly enough. I've looked at those cheaper solutions, but they all suffer from either slow speeds, excessive spindle runout or a quill that wobbles. Those last two result in snapped carbide bits faster than you can blink. Slow speeds are not optimal either. The Proxxon only goes to 8000rpm. It's a bit slow, but it is just fast enough.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 12:49:49 am
content: I have an old Craftsman branded Dremel 100 series with the press stand. I have had pretty good success with it. I find that the adjustable chuck holds tiny drill bits better the the collett and lock nut. I also use high speed twist drill bits. It did take a bit to get used to it but it does the job.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 11:29:55 am
content: Damn! You guys just made me buy a TBM220. (Found it very reasonably priced from German eBay seller briggebaecker.)Ironically I'm trying this because I'm not 100% happy with my current solution of using a Proxxon MF70 CNC mill. I can set it up nicely to drill all my holes automatically, but I just don't seem to be able to align it accurately enough for small vias (using 0.066" diameter vias and 0.7mm drill and copper rivets). I'm going to try the USB microscope under the PCB approach.To be honest it's a nice small drill press anyway. I'm sure it'll get enough use - PCBs or not.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 04:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 10, 2015, 11:29:55 amYou'll love it. One big tip. Slip the belt off when you're not using it. If you forget to do that the belt can take a "set" around the pulleys and it tends to cause vibration for a while after the next startup.Also, once every couple of hundred holes add one drop of sewing machine oil (or tri-flo / 3-in-1 or whatever, just not CRC or WD40) to the quill where it passes through the drive pulley.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 05:09:32 pm
content: Speaking of drill presses, does anyone have any experience with the Foredom units.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 01:26:34 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on March 09, 2015, 09:55:49 pmActually, I already have one - It has a 1/2 shaft and it will adapt from 5/32 down to zero. It has a ball bearing ring you can use to push the drill down with your fingers for very precise drilling. Its stainless steel and appears to be ESD resistant.This kind of drill is far more flexible for use with wood, etc. but its a bit large, - my concern is, it seems like it doesnt have a large enough base to stand on its own which means presumably it needs to be bolted to a workbench?I don't have a mechanical workbench area per se. And there is really no suitable surface to mount it on in my house.. I would need to build one. Ideally I want something I can put away on a shelf when not in use.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 02:46:59 am
content: Quote from: cdev on March 11, 2015, 01:26:34 amIf you want to temporarily fasten the unit down just use a couple of carpenters "F" clamps to hold it to a shelf or table. Those units are surprisingly well balanced, but I certainly would not want to drill anything substantial without having it bolted down. Mine is bolted to the bench with a couple of M8 bolts. It's going nowhere. The TBM220 on the other hand does not really need bolting down.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 12:13:08 am
content: Quote from: Mark on March 09, 2015, 08:22:40 pmDisappointing to hear. I was going to shop for a drill press mount for my Dremel. This takes cares of that.

author: Marc M.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2015, 04:17:48 pm
content: When I was a lad (late 70's) I made a lot of my own PCB's (photolithography style). I used a Dremel with their crappy 'drill press' and had very few issues. Breaking drills was simply never an issue but I was using HSS. Carbide drills would be much more susceptible to breaking in any setup that suffers from rigidity issues. Because carbide is so hard, it's also very brittle and even a slight amount of side loading or bending will snap it off instantly. Poor technique is likely the largest factor in breaking drills regardless of the setup. Like any cutting tools, they can only remove so much material per revolution. If you try to drill faster than it can actually remove the material it will end up bending the bit and breaking. The larger issue I had was the drill bit simply walking and drilling off center. I would always try to use pads that had a hole in the center when producing my artwork. When etched, a tiny hole would be in the center of each pad which acted as a spot drill to locate the drill when I was drilling the board. It worked very well and just about eliminated misaligned holes.The bench top drill press that Trey suggested would be very poor for drilling PCB's. By far the largest issue is it's top speed is far too slow for such tiny drill bits. Even the Proxxon at 8k would be too slow to achieve the proper surface speed for such tiny drills but much more manageable than the blue one. The other issue with the blue one is lack of sensitivity of the feed lever. The feed lever has a pretty stiff return spring to retract the quill making it difficult to judge how much pressure is being placed on the tiny drill. If you can't accurately judge the pressure on the bit, you can't tell if your feed rate is fast, slow, or in the 'sweet spot'. I've never used the Proxxon so I don't know how it behaves in this regard.FWIW, my suggestion would be to pick up a crappy Dremel drill press attachment and start off with that. Don't be a gorilla when using it and you'll be fine. If you really get into making your own boards and start doing a lot of them you can always purchase something of higher quality down the road when you have more disposable funds.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2015, 09:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 09, 2015, 09:44:36 pmI have twice as big and its acceptable for pcb work. Infinitely better than crap dremel stand. Could use more speed/RPM but works okay if you are not drilling hundreds of holes at once.Just make sure that you buy one with Morse taper so that you can use better chuck for tiny drills. I use more accurate collet chuck ie.http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER16-MT2-MK2-M10-SPRING-COLLET-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-TOOL-WORKHOLDING-A18-/111622186479and have been happily drilling with 0.2 to 2mm CARBIDE pcb drills.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2015, 09:28:29 pm
content: Quote from: krivx on March 09, 2015, 11:46:27 pmA dremel + bit of ugly engineering with ball bearing cabinet drawer slide would be a huge improvement over that.30 bucks total if you use cheap knock-off "multitool" or around 60 eur/usd with orginal dremel.With drawer slides I mean thesehttp://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-drawer-slide-CNC-machine-for-under-200/

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2015, 09:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: mzzj on March 23, 2015, 09:28:29 pmSome of the dumpster dive inkjet printers have very nice machined stainless steel slides (not to mention belts and servos).

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2015, 01:15:32 pm
content: Quote from: Marc M. on March 23, 2015, 04:17:48 pmI have the Proxxon. Speed is not an issue. I use the lowest speed. It drills holes just fine and I have never broken a carbide bit.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 04:00:12 am
content: I am thinking of getting one of those $70 8500 RPM "mini drill presses"the only thing that concerns me, I actually have a really nice chuck with a micro touch attachment. It is worth more than a drill press. I got it in an estate sale. It has a 1/2 inch shaft. I dont know how to preserve its accuracy. Its a jacobs chuck, stainless steel, and it is i think their smallest size. It has a ball bearing ring so you can guide it down with your fingers as its spinning,It was a bit gummed up because it had been sitting unused for around ten years but a little TLC and now both chuck and bearing are working and smooth as silk.So its a bit of a dilemma. Put very nice chuck and ring on cheap drill?

author: mrkev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 04:49:12 am
content: I would definitely recommend the proxxon. And if not whole drill from kripton2035's post (which is awesome tool), you can buyjust the drill:http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-28510-12-Volt-Rotary-Micromot/dp/B000S5J5R6/(you would need a transformer for this one:)http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-38706-Transformer-NG/dp/B0017NQU9Y/And buy the drill stand later: f.e.http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-28606-MICROMOT-Drill-Stand/dp/B000209ZAE/I bought it all together little bit over 100$, but that's three years ago. I don't know where you are actually from and amazon doesn't seems to have the best prices (f.e. you was able to find 50/e for less than 30$ at local store), so I would look for those items in your local shops.The great thing is that you can do much more stuff with a hand hold drill, but still use the stand when needed.Deffinitely don't buy some cheap noname junk, it's always pain in the a... to work with...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 03:39:11 pm
content: I already have two dremel-like tools, one is a very old dremel the other is a fairly new cheapie which actually seems to work fairly well. The problem is, it is not accurate enough doing it that way to show off my work online (yes, thats a stupid, non-technical reason)maybe I should consider making a stand myself out of wood using metal rails or something to hold me over until I get a workshop area set up to my liking and then buy a larger drill press so i can use my nice chuck.

author: mrkev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 04:29:59 pm
content: The problem with big but cheap drill press is often small precision when drilling smaller diameter holes... Really chap ones can have some significant wobble of the drill tip. I've seen even something like >0.5mm wobble and that would be a big problem, because you wanna drill holes below 0.8mm... Even tho they could have great performance above 3mm diameter...If you have tools to build drill stand for tools that you already have, that could be a good idea...

author: ttt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 09:04:57 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on March 09, 2015, 07:13:52 pmI have one of these (they go under a lot of brand names):http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRECISION-MINI-DRILL-PRESS-1-4-CHUCK-3-RANGE-VARIABLE-SPEED-UP-TO-8500-RPM-/381182829432Get's the job done nicely for PCB work with carbide drill bits. Fits perfectly on my bench. QA can be sketchy so hope that the chuck and spindle run perfectly true for the one they ship to you. Mine did, lucky meLess than 0.0005" run out (which is the best I can measure).Sales video:I have an XY table with it also which is great for long headers:https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2008&category=-888582885

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 03:05:27 am
content: Quote from: ttt on March 25, 2015, 09:04:57 pmI have a question - Suppose you had one of these-https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3790Something almost identical size and function wise (except the chuck handles bits just a tiny bit bigger- its a #0 jacobs keyed chuck) - Its for hand guiding the drill down - very gently. Could you fit that on your drill and not lose accuracy??I may end up with something like that one, the small size is a big plus.

author: Jidis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 02:59:48 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on March 09, 2015, 09:55:49 pmSame here. I'm using a Delta (an 8" I think). I bought it for woodworking and it's obviously not a machinist quality tool, but it has probably drilled thousands of PCB holes. My main bits are #66 (.033"), but they neck up to a shaft that looks more like a quarter inch or so. I rarely run into things too small for the stock chuck though. I bought a whole box of those #66's, and break one occasionally, but it's usually from me doing something stupid like moving the work before the bit has retracted or trying to "redrill" a hole that I offset by a fraction of an inch.Of course hunching over and staring at a spinning bit through reading glasses from five inches away for a half hour is something I could live without. I was trying to build a wall mount press with a foot pedal and a Dremel a while back, but I lost interest.Good luck whatever you end up with!

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 06:12:37 am
content: Quote from: cdev on March 28, 2015, 03:05:27 amseems a nice solution - but if the main shrank is woobling, then the small inside will wooble too !this seems nice if you put it in a machinist millalso it's way cheaper here £25 ? (dont know your country so ?) :http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/catalogue/department.aspx?node_id=fc406413-5c74-4550-b18c-439abda0ff60#Micro-Drill-Adaptor---JT0---12-Shankis it the same item ?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 06:10:54 pm
content: I already have it, I bought (them) in an estate sale for a ridiculously low sum.So now, basically, i already have two chucks which will cover a wide range of sizes, however both are mounted to shafts which are fairly large.The mounting shaft on the first one is 1/2 inch wide and the other is 5/8.

author: unfy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 09:10:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 10, 2015, 11:29:55 amDid this after seeing a page or two talk about it. Some 3/4" wood, 15 year old dremel and press attachment, cheap $15 USB microscope, free software, 1-1/4" conduit straps, some closed cell foam for padding.Works great, outside of the play in the dremel / press (some shims or other fixing will solve that).Pics below (haven't stained and poly'd it yet).

author: magicsmoke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2015, 04:40:20 am
content: Has anyone used the Foredom drill presses?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2015, 06:55:37 am
content: Quote$94 in 2014$105 March 10, 2015$136 July 28, 2015I wonder if this forum caused this ? ie do we shoot ourselves in our foot ?

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2015, 07:08:29 am
content: Maybe put a camel alert on the drill press.CamelCamelCamel

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2015, 11:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on July 29, 2015, 07:08:29 amI did not know about this site - thanksI did set an alert at $100 (I am in no hurry)Now to go through my wish list to add more alerts.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 01:40:27 pm
content: Damn, I should have bought the Rikon when it was cheap.With the prices of other drills going up, the Proxxon looks better, if it has not gone up.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 06:43:15 pm
content: QuoteTake a close look:http://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-5-speed-bench-drill-press-60238.htmlI have the Harbor Freight variety. The price is up by $10.00 from 4-5 years ago. I have the same model but with a keyless chuck (was a $40 upgrade, IIRC). There are probably hundreds of thousands of these things sold over the years under various brand names, with minor tweaks to the trim/paint/table. These are built to last. There are two pulleys in the top with multiple slots that hold a rubber belt for the drive. The only thing wrong with the press is the depth stop is worthless.If you prefer Amazon, Wen seems to be the popular budget rebrand, these days:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQONFVE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687602&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00B4WKSBE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=092CY0BFTJ8D2ATM9JKKSo is Rikon blue paint worth almost double the price?(I use a Proxxon press for pcb, FTR. But there's no reason I couldn't use this. It's just heavier and lives in the garage).

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 07:08:13 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on September 18, 2015, 06:43:15 pmWhere did you get the keyless chuck?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 09:19:47 pm
content: When I went to the physical store, I started walking away with the version in the link for $59.99. Then I saw the keyless version next to it for about $100. Sorry, not sure where you can order this part, specifically, for $40.00. You can probably buy tapered-spindle chucks in standard sizes, but I'm no machinist.To install a taper-fit chuck you just kind of slide it in and tap it with a block. To remove it is a little trickier. You have to tap on it just right to make it break loose.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 09:53:45 pm
content: QuoteFor PCB's ONLY, this does the trick for me. It has a very small footprint. The fence works great for PCB work, too. But unlike the $250.00 version, it won't have the low speed torque to be worthwhile for metals or dense woods.http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-28606-MICROMOT-Drill-Stand/dp/B000209ZAE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1442612854&sr=8-2&keywords=proxxon+drill+pressThen I use this for my pcb drill:http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-28512-12-Volt-Micromot-Rotary/dp/B000S5KO3K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1442612911&sr=8-3&keywords=proxxon+rotary+toolNotice it doesn't come with the adapter. It should take about a 15VAC transformer that can sustain about half an amp (maybe only 250mA for a dedicated PCB drill), if you don't want to buy the Proxxon power supply. That gets you to $10.00 over your budget, if you have a transformer, already. I actually bypassed the speed circuitry and run this off of 4 li ion cells. For a dedicated PCB drill, you could even rig a contact switch to turn the drill off when it's all the way up. I had this at some point, but I ended up using the drill for something else. I have to rig that up, again.If you ever need to flash boards for micros or EEPROMS, this press is super handy. You can reverse the spring in it and rig up an ICSP interface to it. Hold the lever up, insert pcb, then release the lever to let the spring hold the pogo pins down (I installed a dowel over the lever so I can just squeeze the two together to lift the head). Again, the fence comes in handy. This is why I have two of these presses... And I use it for something else, as well. I might have to buy another.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 06:54:30 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on September 18, 2015, 09:19:47 pmfor europeans, you can find the chucks here :http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Chucks/Drill-Chucksyou must just figure out what arbor is installed in your drill