The origins of «Old Dart» - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VinzC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 10:41:51 am
content: Hi all.I'm no English native speaker and have encountered the expression «Old Dart» for the first time in Dave's EEVBlog. Being curious by nature I've sought a little and found the origin of this expression isrelatively unknown.I'm no English man but what immediately popped into my mind when I heard that expression is theDartsgame pattern — look at the resemblance between the British flag and the game board. As per wikipedia it seems the game was first played in the mid-19th century... in England. The Darts (mind the 's') game and Australia becoming a British colony might be not-so-closely related but I find the similarities quite interesting.Obviously the one who used that expression for the first time expected the reader to know the meaning. Could the expression and the Darts game (which originated in England) be related and the latter play a role in the origin of the former?

author: Tony_G
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 05:31:54 pm
content: One of two possible origins are claimed.British prison uniforms (I can't remember if these were ever worn in Australia though)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_uniform#19th_centuryReferences by British naval offices to the Royal Naval College on the river Dart as the "Old Dart".Personally I have no idea and think both these origins are suspect in that the naval college only moved there in 1863 and the prison uniform was first adopted in the 1870's but the last convict transportation was in Jan 1968.To me it would be more likely a more modern slag related to movies and images of prisoners with darts on the clothing and used as a sly reference to transportation.TonyG

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 06:35:46 pm
content: I looked into this a while back and it seems there really isn't a conclusive known origin. That leaves us speculating about all sorts of amusing theories.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 07:07:24 pm
content: 'dart' as a dialect pronunciation of 'dirt' then usage analogous to the Irish settler expression "the auld sod" to mean the emigrant's homeland seems the most likely.British prison uniforms were marked with theBroad arrow, and its more than a bit of a stretch to associate that with 'darts'. Similarly any association with Dartmouth as a port of departure is unlikely as few settlers or convicts would have come from the Dart valley, and the majority either wouldn't have sailed from Dartmouth, or wouldn't have fond memories of their port of departure.

author: sibeen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 12:33:08 am
content: Quote from: Tony_G on July 20, 2018, 05:31:54 pmI didn't realise we were still taking English prisoners as recently as that

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 03:52:30 am
content: Quote from: sibeen on July 21, 2018, 12:33:08 amActually, that was 1868!Some websites say the "Broad arrow" type uniform was only introduced in the 1870s, but the Perth Town Hall which was built in the 1860s to '70s, largely by convicts, shows evidence of convict influence in the tower windows which are shaped like "broad arrows".Possibly, the broad arrows were adopted in the then Colonies a bit earlier than in the "Home Country"In any case, the broad arrow was used as a symbol for government ownership, right up to the end of WW2.I remember, as a small child eating "luncheon meat" from surplus military rations which were resold by dealers (no "use by" dates, then!).These had the initials "D" & "D" ( for Department of Defence), separated by a "broadarrow".We called them "Dad & Dave" after the characters in the old Steele Rudd stories.There were other names, among the more printable was "Tinned Dog".It seems, that apart from the government connection, the "broadarrow " was a fairly widely used symbol back in the late 1800s, rather like the "asterisk" & "hash tag" are today.The town of Broadarrow in WA was named after the symbols a prospector left scratched along the track leading to his "find".Alas, the deposit petered out, & it is now a "ghost town".Back on topic, I think the "Dart" means "dirt", especially if spoken in an exaggerated English regional accent.Remember, back in the 1870s (or even the 1970s), English accents were much less "generic" than today.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 06:12:47 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 20, 2018, 07:07:24 pmI recall it was something like this, or some mis-pronunciation of the word that just caught on.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 07:06:12 am
content: There is a really good podcast about esp Tasmanian convicts, remarkably good records kept, astute rehabilitation of convicts back into society - encouraging job skills similar to old ones but suitable for the new environment. We could learn a lesson from history! (Again)http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-hamish-maxwell-stewart/8611554

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 07:12:57 am
content: In Greece a term used is "Old Albionum" from the ancient name of that location.Alexander.

author: VinzC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 12:43:52 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on July 21, 2018, 07:12:57 amOh, yes, in French, too, there's that old expression "La perfide Albion" (aka "The Treacherous Albion"), which refers to the times there was a great rivalry between France and England. It originates by the end of the 18th century but was more widely used in the 19th (http://www.expressio.fr/expressions/la-perfide-albion.php).Anyway thanks for all your insights, that is very interesting. The fact that the origin is unknown hence leading to speculation really is fascinating. I'm no linguist but as some of you have hinted about distorted pronunciation and given that that kind of evolution also happened in other languages, that looks to me like a quite reasonably acceptable explanation.This said I love listening to various English accents and expressions/idioms — I don't know if I'm biased or not — but the Australian ones seem to tickle my curiosity the most. There's been a lot of expressions which are intuitive enough to get or for which I could find similar ones in my mother tongue but with Australian ones... I don't know, they're not always straightforward and that's fascinating. And I'm not talking about Irish, Scottish...Just as French, I (have started to) realize (how) English is a rich language and I have a weak spot with British English, especially. There's a lot to discover for the curious one.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 05:00:26 pm
content: The old dart could be referencing Dartmoor prison which could well have been used for holding prisoners until such time as they had enough to ship most likely from Plymouth.