Lab digital microscope suggestions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:06:55 pm
content: I'm looking for a digital microscope for my "lab". I'm not looking for a professional-grade device.I have very limited space for it, so would like it to be small. The size of those cheap USB microscopes I've seen advertised would be great, but I'm wary of how (un)useful they are.I want to be able to use it for soldering, but other things as well (painting miniatures, etc).Would like to be able to hook it up to a 15" display directly without needing a PC in between. I'd mount the display on a boom arm or maybe directly to a shelf above the workspace.Would like decent resolution and working distance.Prefer to keep the cost low.I'm not sure how well those cheap USB scopes work, and was hoping someone could make a recommendation.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:40:22 am
content: My advice is to get instead a cheap stereo optical microscope from eBay. You will see much better what's going on.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:50:21 am
content: Digital microscope is a big NO if you want it for soldering.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 04:26:44 am
content: I can live without using it for soldering - mainly want it for inspection. Being able to magnify live soldering was just a nice thought - didn't think about the problem of video latency.If you're talking about something like that Mantis on Dave's bench, I don't have room for a stereo scope like that.My reason for wanting this is to be able to do inspection and probing without dedicating much desk space to it - hence the mounted display. My entire bench probably has less total working area than a single seat at the typical EEVBer's bench, so every square inch of desk space is valuable.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 08:08:39 am
content: I have a collection of digital microscopes that never get used. Unless you spend serious money, they all suck in my opinion. I use ALL DAY LONG an AmScope stereo zoom with a wide angle lens and love it. These little guys are only a few hundred and work surprisingly well. It is so easy on your eyes to look through real optics and you will find far more subtle errors inspecting a PCB this way compared to a digital microscope - especially a cheap one. Tiny whiskers can bridge a pin and have you pulling your hair out for hours. The zoom feature lets you go in and look at joints for inspection while zooming out lets you see a big area for placing and soldering. The wide angle lens is about $50 and it doubles the working distance so you can get your hands and tools under the scope. Don't underestimate the 'stereo' part of stereo microscope - a 3D view is SOOOOOOO much better. A ring light is essential, there is tons of optical loss so you need a lot of shadow free light to see details.This is a trinocular model which allows the addition of a camera.http://www.amscope.com/microscopes/7x-45x-boom-stand-trinocular-zoom-stereo-microscope-54-led-light.htmlThe binocular models are cheaper.....http://www.amscope.com/microscopes/7x-45x-stereo-zoom-microscope-with-single-arm-boom-stand.html

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 01:51:46 pm
content: Those amscope stereo zoom microscopes look to be amazingly good value.I use an old Zeiss stereo zoom microscope with similar specs with a 'cold' ring light. It has an extra lens at the bottom giving it a big working area, probably similar to the amscope. I certainly agree that real optics are essential for inspection work and I wouldn't want to use a digital microscope for critical inspection work. My Zeiss was very old when I bought it and it cost me a bit less than the price of the new amscope. I also had to service/align and clean it to get good performance from it so the amscope looks to be a very good deal to me at sub $400.Mine is on a huge swing arm boom so it can be swung out of the way when not in use. However, it's way too heavy and awkward to be something that you would want to move on and off the bench as required. So not really suitable for a tiny work area. You can get smaller stereo microscopes but they aren't as nice to use and they usually have a very restrictive viewing area. So it can be like looking down a thin pipe. So no good for doing stuff like painting miniatures.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 09:26:56 pm
content: Quote from: MacAttak on December 07, 2014, 04:26:44 amI was in a similar situation. I have a desk that I use for electronic works and other stuff so small footprint was a major requirement. I started with a USB microscope but the 2D image was very disappointing. I ended up getting this cheapo but nice stereo/zoom microscope, which I keep in a cabinet and move to the desk only when using it. It works just great for both soldering and inspection (I am doing 0402 resistors and QFN 0.5 mm pitch).http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0MP-USB-Digital-Microscope-Video-Endoscope-Otoscope-/180622909554?// USB microscopehttp://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A15N1ZA/ref=cm_sw_su_dp// Optical microscope

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 11:35:18 pm
content: Quote from: MacAttak on December 06, 2014, 11:06:55 pmHow low?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 12:29:51 am
content: Plus 1 on the AmscopeI use mine every day and am very happy with it.Thread hereon my setup and modifications.If you ever plan to do video with the scope make sure you get a simulfocal not just a trinocular.A trinocular looses stereoscopic vision when you switch the camera in, the simufocal maintains stereoscopic vision with the camera active.

author: dmmartindale
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 02:45:33 am
content: Another vote for getting an optical stereo scope first. You will be amazed at what fine control your hands have for placing parts, soldering, etc. under a stereo scope. This happens because you can see what you're doing in 3D, in real time, at high resolution.A "digital microscope" is inferior to your eyes plus a regular stereo scope for anything interactive because:- At low power, any decent stereo scope is sharper than your eyes. Most digital microscopes are relatively low resolution (1080 line HDTV or less), considerably less than your eyes- A digital microscope doesn't give you 3D. To see how well you can work without 3D, try soldering with one eye closed (or some other fine, close work). 3D is really useful- A digital microscope probably doesn't update at 60 FPS, and always adds some lag. The lag can be quite noticeable if the camera head compresses the data.Cameras that provide HD-resolution images uncompressed at decent frame rates (60 FPS) do exist, but they are not inexpensive, they need USB3 or gigabit Ethernet to deliver that data, and a reasonably powerful computer to receive and display or store it.Stereo microscopes aren't necessarily expensive. My first one was a used AO 40, a teaching microscope with 10X and 20X magnification. It cost me $100, plus some time cleaning and lubricating the focus mechanism. It's built like a tank. It works fine - but it only has 2 magnifications, and a somewhat narrow field of view. Later, I upgraded to a new Chinese-made stereo zoom scope, and it is noticeably better - larger field of view, better contrast, and works with a ring light.If you do need to take still photos or videos, get a camera that mounts on your microscope - either via a trinocular port, or by temporarily replacing one of the eyepieces. But I'll bet you continue to use the scope with your eyes most of the time.- Dave

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 03:23:05 am
content: Amscope with the boom. One of the best investments I've made in my lab. I've lost about a third if my vision to glaucoma. Having the scope with the high working area allows me to inspect to an incredible level of magnification while having the zoom gives me like 11 inches or more working area underneath. Be done a great deal of soldering with it. If you buy it, get the trinocular head as it is the same price and you don't have to remove the eyepiece. You can't do binocular at the same time time even if you have the trinoc head, though. I bought it from Amazon. Many of the models look alike so be careful what you order. Again, having the massive base and boom are necessary for electronics work.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2014, 04:28:48 am
content: Thanks for all of the responses.For those who have suggested the optical units - what is the eye relief like (typically)? I do wear strong prescription glasses and short eye relief eyepieces are very annoying.

author: radhaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2014, 04:52:01 am
content: Don't expect to use an optical wearing your glasses unless you get high eyepoint oculars.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2014, 04:54:01 am
content: I am always using my prescription safety glasses on my amscope and I have no problems at all.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2014, 05:32:02 am
content: If you are considering an optical microscope such as amscope, you may want to check amazon. Return may be easier in case it does not work for you.Another cheaper option, for inspection only, is to use a magnifier glass. Not as good as a stereo microscope but better than a digital scope IMO. Search amazon for 'triplet loupe'.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2014, 07:39:01 pm
content: I have a loupe, but the working distance is really bad - hard to get enough light on the target while still maintaining focus. I also have a similar power magnifying lens that attaches to my phone camera - I can use that for very basic digital close-ups, and it's far from ideal but it does allow me to capture images for more detailed review. I also have one of those desk magnifier lamps (like this one:http://www.amazon.com/ALVIN-Magnifier-Swing-arm-Lamp-Black/dp/B000HF29KM/) - it is helpful for soldering but rather crude. I also have a cheap visor that is handy (http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1041LC-lighted-head-magnifier/dp/B001BL5NTA/).Of all those, the visor is probably the most useful (even though by far the cheapest) because it is essentially hands-free.I'd like to have a hands-free solution that doesn't require bringing anything within mere inches of my face, and I would also like the ability to easily capture a frame, then set the inspected item down, and study the captured still image at my leisure. All without using up much desk space.I may just get one of those cheap ones and give it a try. It might be good enough for my purposes.

author: dmmartindale
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2014, 01:34:49 am
content: Quote from: MacAttak on December 09, 2014, 04:28:48 amJust make sure you get "high eyepoint" eyepieces. Here is an example from Amscope's web page:http://www.amscope.com/accessories/eyepiece/pair-of-extreme-widefield-10x-eyepieces-30mm.htmlThe picture of a pair of glasses engraved into the barrel indicate they are designed for use by glasses wearers.Many of the new Chinese-made scopes have eyepieces similar to those: 10X magnification, 20 mm or more field, a 30 mm barrel diameter, and high eyepoint. (The ones in the page above are 22 mm field, which is even wider). They will give you enough eye relief and a nice wide field of view. They often come with rubber eyecups to help position your eyes far enough away if you don't wear glasses.If you buy a used microscope, particularly a lower-cost student model, you need to check its eyepieces more carefully. For example, my used AO 40 has eyepieces that appear to be 10x18 and 23 mm eye tubes. It produces quite usable images, but it doesn't have the field of view of the modern Chinese scope. And it doesn't have as much eye relief either.- Dave

author: smgvbest
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2014, 02:52:34 am
content: Another big thumbs up for the AMScope. I got mine off ebay years ago and I swear they cost less then.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 03:06:11 pm
content: Anybody got any thoughts on the clamp mount vs. base plate mount, other than the obvious?Long workbench here...no "ends" to clamp to, work station is in the 'middle' of the bench. Only real option is to use the base plate...maybe make up a couple of brackets to hold a base plate to the table or something.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 08:38:03 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 12, 2015, 03:06:11 pmPerhaps wall mount anarticulating arm(screw the flat part of the clamp to the wall or on a shelf upright)?No idea what's feasible in your case, just trying to offer up something other than attaching it to the table or having to move the entire microscope on/off all of the time. Photo of your lab might help.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 09:35:38 pm
content: Wall mount...not a bad idea. Even if I have to whip up some sort of bracketry thing to clamp it onto.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/msg334339/#msg334339"Work station" is under the stack of red box/holder things.Might have to move some things around once I get the 'scope in hand.I really gotta update those pics.Got my eyes on (pun intended!) one of the Amscope models.http://www.amscope.com/microscopes/3-5x-90x-articulating-trinocular-zoom-microscope-with-ring-light.htmlWant to swap out the ring light for the 144-LED 4 zone model and add a USB3 camera, maybe 3MP or 5MP. Don't see much need for 10MP unless the frame rate can keep up.They don't sell a Simul-Focal type with an articulating mount of any type and I'm not too keen on the ball bearing or double-arm types. I kinda like to swing the thing around where I need it vs. having to loosen/tighten clamps all the time.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 09:48:05 pm
content: A huge, big "NO" for any USB microscope, even if is a top of the line Dino-Lite (that in my opinion, does NOT have the quality they claim, at least, for that price).Go for an optical stereo. Like this Eschenbach:

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 10:55:25 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 12, 2015, 09:35:38 pmWow. That panoramic hurt my eyes trying to spot a good place to mount it.Seriously though, that shelf upright in the middle looks promising. Nice and simple too, assuming it's really suitable.Quote from: Skimask on January 12, 2015, 09:35:38 pmYou might want to look into the Simul-Focal models. They allow you to look through the eyepieces and use a camera to capture the images simultaneously; the model you linked has to be switched, so you can only view through one or the other (and likely refocused each time you do a switch).The following kits might be of interest.3.5x-90x Simul-Focal Articulating Zoom w/3MPCamera (SM-6TPZ-64S-3M) also happens to be $10 cheaper3.5x-90x Simul-Focal Articulating Zoom w/5MPCamera (SM-6TPZ-64S-5M)Stand is a clamp type, minus the upright boom. Light included is a 64 LED unit. You could probably call them and get them swapped if you wish, but I'm not sure you even need to do so (particularly regarding the mount).http://www.amscope.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/2033/image/14471/

author: don
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 11:41:23 pm
content: I have the simul-focal with a 3MP. Works great. Large working distance is critical for soldering.I did have some sw install issues so had to track down the OEM for camera and use their software. I forgot what the issue was, but all works now w/o issue . i prefer the heavy base with the simple slide boom arm because they tend to be more solid. It does not take much wiggle to be annoying. We have a lot of articulating arms at work and can get annoying (albeit different brands). Though mounted to a wall and decoupled from bench may help with motion from touching /bumping bench. Sliding boom is still very easy to move out of way and you can fold the head in on itself to make it smaller (depending on bench setup I guess). I might get the ball bearing boom at some point but I generally keep boom extended and just swing it 180 to get out of the way.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 11:42:38 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 12, 2015, 10:55:25 pmYa, I'll get that fixed someday. 10 second youtube video is a lot easier than stitching.QuoteYou talking about the 4x8 work table in the middle? It's a movable type. Do my messy work there.QuoteThat was my thinking. Simul-Focal.They don't have the options I want in a pre-built package. Looks like I'm gonna have to piece it together. Giving myself $1K give-or-take to play with on this, so got plenty of wiggle room to get it right.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 11:51:28 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 12, 2015, 11:42:38 pmThe one that has the Weller soldering iron in it (next pic stitched to the right of the one with the oscilloscope).Quote from: Skimask on January 12, 2015, 11:42:38 pmMight try giving them a call, and see what they can do that way (tend to find phone orders can do wonders on price).Nothing to lose by trying IMHO at any rate (money better in your wallet than theirs).

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 11:58:01 pm
content: It's one continuous 28ft long bench. Tough to tell what's what, I know.Got things switched around a bit now. The area under the window (left of the 'scope's) now has a 7 drawer Craftsman tool cabinet up against the wall. But, it's an open area without any shelves above it, etc.Looks like I might end up moving my soldering/clean area there. Move the not so clean area to where the soldering 'station' is now. And the messy stuff stays on the movable work table.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 12:08:07 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 12, 2015, 11:58:01 pm28 feet of bench space?Now I'm jealous. Compared to the shoebox I'm working with (and it's giant vs. others), you've got plenty of room. Until you find enough crap to fill it up that is.Sounds like you've a plan at any rate.FWIW, I'm confident you'll figure out a way to stuff it in there (lots of options as to what you can do by shifting this and that).

author: devanno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 12:13:52 am
content: I do modeling work, and solder wire to 0402 LEDs... so bought an Amscope stereo bench scope "boom arm" style ... well, actually, it's a trinocular... but the third, vertical ocular is for a digital (USB) camera. When you adjust to use it, you lose stereo vision and do have to adjust focus a bit... so it's good for the occasional image capture, but not much else. The stereo optics, on the other hand, are superb. Well, that one is in my modeling shop, and as I'm building a small electronics workbench, went back to Amscope for another "inspection device." I got a fixed mag 'scope (5x or 10x by changing the ocular lenses) with an LED lamp for well under $200. If I need more, I can just walk the work into my other shop with the "big" microscope.I find that even if a magnifier would be sufficient for what I'm doing, I still prefer the microscope and use it often. These microscopes give you about 8" or so of working distance under the objective... so plenty of room for soldering and for inspection.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 12:18:05 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 13, 2015, 12:08:07 amYa, got lucky when I bought my house. Had a 20x50 outbuilding that wasn't being used. Framed up and insulated the back 2/3. Instant (?) 508sq.ft. of shop space.But, I've outgrown it now. Running a business along with everything else I do. Garage is 30ft x 80ft, front half concrete floor, back half dirt floor. Thinking I might build that up this summer, wood floor, insulated, etc. 1200 sq ft of luvin... Use the 'old' space for cold storage, maybe wood working if I run out of room in the new place.If it looks like that's not going to work out, going to frame up and insulate the front half of the building I'm in now, roughly another 18ft x 11ft. Use that for office space.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 07:46:15 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 13, 2015, 12:18:05 amSounds like you've quite a bit of space for a nice playground and office complex for grownups.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 10:19:23 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 13, 2015, 12:08:07 amYears ago I had that too at work. A medical lab bench made of 1 1/2 inch teakwood, 25 feet long. It's ideal: Once in a month I collected the expensive parts, did put the waste bin at one end and took a broom over it

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 01:16:13 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 13, 2015, 07:46:15 amExcept there's no other grownups around here into the same stuff... Thought about hooking up with the local hams that meet at Hardee's once a month, but they want me to go whole hog and join their club and everything. Got nothing against hams in general, think that ham radio is cool in it's own right, just don't feel like joining their club just for the "right" to talk smack to the guys on the weekends.Heck, there's not even any kids that I know of. A couple years ago, I approached a local school about throwing together a quickie electronics "weekend" sort of thing...maybe build up a bunch of sumo-bots or something. Zero interest. WTF...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 08:57:42 pm
content: Quote from: Pjotr on January 13, 2015, 10:19:23 amYouperson you...BTW, how fast did you fill up your parts bins that way?Quote from: Skimask on January 13, 2015, 01:16:13 pmWell, that's disappointing.Regarding the HAM club, I wouldn't pay to join unless I wanted to actually get a license (it is). Don't seen enough in it for just an electronics enthusiast though, particularly as it's an expensive hobby on top of another expensive hobby.Not sure about the size of where you live (population), but I hear you. Not much interest near me either IME (best bet near me is 45min to the nearest university with an engineering program).Perhaps try again, particularly with magnate/charter schools, assuming there are any within reasonable driving distance?Maybe even the middle school level (hook them while young)?Seems worth trying again IMHO, as you really seem interested in sharing.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 10:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 13, 2015, 08:57:42 pmNot much, I couldn't stand the crying of parts not being used any more for yearsYes I know, many EE's are notorious collectors of unused parts just to put them in drawers to sit there gathering dust and meanwhile thinking of what use they still can have.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 12:10:38 am
content: Just ordered a Simul-Focal 3.5x-90x head, articulating stand/post clamp/focus rack, 144-LED 4 zone ring light, 5MP camera, for $1122.Karl at Amscope, very helpful guy, responded quickly, called in the order, done and done in a couple of minutes.Will do an unboxing, set up, type video when I get it. But don't expect Dave-type quality.

author: devanno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 05:55:51 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 17, 2015, 12:10:38 amSounds very nice! I await your unboxing and review!

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 01:52:39 pm
content: Review??? No pressure right?I'm far FAR from any sort of optics expert!...meh...maybe that's a plus since I'll end up describing everything in dumb-guy language

author: devanno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 05:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 17, 2015, 01:52:39 pmWell, heh... ok... how about your experience and impressions then :-)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 05:36:13 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 17, 2015, 01:52:39 pmI am sure you will enjoy it. It's on the high end of cheap microscopes. Going down to x3.5 is nice, the x90 is less useful for PCB work.We expect a full teardown of the optics, nothing less ;-)

author: devanno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 06:51:17 pm
content: QuoteI agree with this. I rarely use much more than 4.5x on my microscope... sometimes a bit more for serious inspection. When soldering, if you run the magnification up too high, you spent a bunch of time getting your iron tip into the field of view, and then your pulse may be sufficient to move the tip out of view! (Of course, I'm old, so your mileage will vary!)Quote

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 07:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: devanno on January 17, 2015, 06:51:17 pmFrom memory, these are a 0.7X to 4.5X head, with 10X oculars (eyepieces) and 0.5X, 1X and 2X interchangable Barlow lenses. With the 0.5X Barlow lens fitted then you've got 3.5 to 22.5X magnification, which is probably all that is needed for pcb work.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 09:25:04 pm
content: @devanno - you want impressions, eh? I got a few of those up my sleeve...@zapta - teardown...Ya? No... But, I am going to spend some time on whatever wiki pages I can find to read up on the subject of optics a bit so I at least sound like I half-ass know what I'm talking about...from a distance...in a crowded room...with generous certain beverages on hand...to a 2 year old...

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 05:11:27 pm
content: I got the 'scope in a couple weeks ago. Finally got around to shooting a cheesy video of me unboxing and installing it.Uploading it now, but don't expect it to go live for at least another couple hours (really slow uploads today). Youtube says it'll be athttp://youtu.be/u-PxOWjQ3mw.Don't expect too much at all. I'm no Dave for sure. Once I get it all tweaked and figured out, I'll upload a better video. Probably take a couple more weeks though. I gotta use my Galaxy S5 to shoot it since it's the only thing I've got that'll give me more than 640x480.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 09:22:29 pm
content: Your video is private - you need to switch it to unlisted for us to see it.I ended up getting the endoscope w/ aluminum telescoping stand that Dave reviewed - it works perfect for me, I have zero complaints.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 11:10:51 pm
content: ...and of course the upload failed since I let it run while I went to sleep. I get to redo it now.