East Tester ET4510 LCR meter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 11:43:34 am
content: Hi FolksAnyone have one of these East Tester ET4510?I'm curious if this is just the ET44 series with different software.Or if anyone has internal shots?I ordered one from this seller for$265$310https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005657296422.htmlEDIT2:Do not buy from this seller!EDIT: Btw. I did search and could hardly find any information about this meter online. There were about 3 mentions on eevblog forum about this meter but nothing more. And one pretty terrible Youtube video

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 01:39:50 pm
content: Hi,I had already set my sights on the ET4510 because it have variable test frequencies in 1Hz steps - good for graphical representations etc. .Otherwise, I still have a 4410 here, if you get the 4510, take some nice pictures of the inside and then we can compare.Edit:QuoteNot avaible for my country - the avaible ones will cost more than 600€...

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 02:10:07 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 25, 2023, 01:39:50 pmGlad to hear I'm not going insane eyeing it. I was trying to figure out if the device is very new or something is wrongQuote from: Martin72 on November 25, 2023, 01:39:50 pmAssuming it is not a scam (due to price) I intend to take pictures of everything.Quote from: Martin72 on November 25, 2023, 01:39:50 pmYeah it is much cheaper then every other seller, especially if I include shipping.Seller hasn't been around *that* long, but the store doesn't have too many alarming reviews and the person is responding to messages (I asked for Fedex shipping but instead UPS is all that is available, which charges a lot more for clearance to my destination)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 10:18:53 pm
content: I can't wait to see if you'll be holding it in your hands soon.

author: LordXaos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 07:37:11 pm
content: Just by random chance encountered this thread, I have one. It's not entirely new (out for like 4-5 years I guess, was a lot cheaper back then), and technically it is mostly the same as the ET4410, apart from the software, as far as I can tell (at least the analog board has printed ET44 on it, so that part seems to be the same).The user interface does have its quirks, but for normal day-to-day usage it works quite well, it's fast to boot (less than 4s), completely silent, outputs pretty neat sinewaves at the set frequency (verified, as far as reasonable, with the scope), and is quite stable in its measurements (also can be seen in quite a lot of electronics youtube videos sitting somewhere in the background...) - so if I just need to do some quick measurement I often end up using it instead of one of the better DMMs, just because it's so quick to be online.For nice graphing there are a few minor issues, but you could PM me, I've written some Python script that works around most of those, as the device can be remote controlled (mostly for "hunting down" resonant frequencies, but should be easy enough to adapt).I would suggest getting replacement cables, though, the ones coming with it are not too bad, but since I replaced them it works even better (better reproducibility of results in particular).There is a JTAG port inside, and I would expect putting the 4510 firmware onto a 4410 might actually convert it (unless they did something to the analog board), but for lack of a specimen to test it on I couldn't verify. The front-panel board seems to communicate with the analog board using some 9600 baud UART (IIRC), I didn't go any deeper than that for lack of time, didn't take any pictures of the inside either.

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 02:34:42 pm
content: So unfortunately the seller asked me to extend a bunch of times then came up with the story that "it cannot be shipped because UPS says it is magnetic". Obviously a lie. But here we are. Guess back to the drawing board on which LCR to buy.Definitely don't buy from this "ALULUA Store" tho, the guy is scummy AF. He is likely to send you a brick and pull the old, "send it back" scam.

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 02:36:20 pm
content: Quote from: LordXaos on December 09, 2023, 07:37:11 pmI wonder if the firmware can be extracted or is floating around somewhere.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 10:39:37 pm
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 10, 2023, 02:34:42 pmSorry to read about your experience.FWIW, I have one on its way. At least that's what I want to believe...I placed the order exactly a week ago and the current shipping state is "arrived at departure transport hub".I bought it from seller "East Tester Factory Store" thinking that it's the "official" ET seller. How little did I know...Having said that, they seem to have 100% positive feedback (if it's true), so fingers crossed...

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 12:14:17 am
content: Caution!!!!Upon close examination noticed a potential issue on the images of the ET4510. The Hcur, Hpot, Lpot, Lcur are reversed from the L on the left H on the right of the Hioki IM3536 and Tonghui TH2830 LCR meters we have which follow the traditional LCR meter front panel BNC setups of HP, Aligent, Keysight, R&S, GW Instek, B&K, and others. This could lead to confusion with various fixtures, and potential disaster with specific setup fixtures like DC bias and such.This alone conveys enough about these LCR meters for us to avoid, just opens the door for MurphyIf they can't even get the 4 BNC Input terminals in proper order as all the major TE OEMs have for many decades, why would anyone believe anything they displayBest

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 10:57:29 am
content: Quote from: pope on December 10, 2023, 10:39:37 pmThanks for the kind words.I suspect you'll be fine, this is the first time this has actually happened to me on AliExpress.I wanted to buy from that store also but their shipping to my location matched the cost of the meter.I've been exploring alternatives, trying to figure out which LCR meter to buy.The options are so limited

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 11:13:20 am
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 12, 2023, 10:57:29 amInteresting. I got free shipping and the total I paid was a bit less than 300 euro. That's excluding the custom taxes, once it hopefully arrives.Not too many options in this price range indeed. At least not in EU. Nobody seem to stock those ET, Victor, you_name_it LCRs

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 12:56:41 pm
content: Quote from: pope on December 12, 2023, 11:13:20 amBtw. if possible and you are up for it, please post some pictures of the meter, internally I mean.I literally cannot find anything online.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 11:16:19 pm
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 12, 2023, 10:57:29 amIf you don't necessarily need the stepless test frequencies, you can also use the cheaper ET4410.This model is "safe" to get, I already have the second one here, the first time I bought it at banggood, the second time on ebay.For the money, there are no alternatives to the ET44/4510.The next one, which would be much more valuable and "correct", would be a model from Tonghui/Sourcetronic.

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:31:51 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 12, 2023, 11:16:19 pmYeah I had a look at that but then I feel like the DE-5000 is a significantly better deal (than ET44).What are your thoughts on the Matrix MCR-5200?I've also had a look on eBay and Hioki 3522/Hioki 3532 is also options, but quite a bit more money, still I suspect a much better meter.I've got a seller that is offering the Hioki 3532 for $700 (made an offer type thing) which seems to be the best deal I'll be able to get (turns on and works, "unable to test completely")

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 10:35:41 am
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 13, 2023, 09:31:51 amThe matrix-5200 quality-wise looks like a much better meter than the TE. I ws eyeing on it for a few months and I could get it from EU. However, it's much more expensive and it has less functionality than the TE (i.e no continuous frequency, voltage, no auto-select, etc..)But it definitely does look of much better quality.

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:40:22 am
content: Quote from: pope on December 13, 2023, 10:35:41 amYeah good call out, I realized that when I dug a bit more into specs.I can get the ET3502 for the same price as Matrix LCR-5200, so I think, as you say, better deal because it is continuous frequency.The ET3502 seems to me to be in the same category as the Matrix LCR-5200.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:55:36 am
content: QuoteThe hioki is on another planet, in comparison to the mentioned meters here before.That´s why I´m still trying to restaurate my 3532-50(display problems, touchpanel defective).

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:56:49 am
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 13, 2023, 11:40:22 amWell, quite frankly I have no idea whether it's better deal. It all comes down to real specs. It does look better deal but bear in mind that we're dealing with some not-so-known Chinese brands here so take everything with a grain of salt...

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:13:46 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 11:55:36 amOof, I had a look, definitely wouldn't want to try buy a broken one, it is just too high of a risk.My repair skills are not anywhere near yours (hobbyist vs professional doing this every day alone tells me I'll probably struggle a lot more)Funny enough some sellers are offering this same meter with a broken display for not much less than the working products.Planet eBay is a strange place.Quote from: pope on December 13, 2023, 11:56:49 amAgreed, but it looks like the ET35xx series was their first range, which they sell to businesses.The ET34/35xx is their "hobby" version (my opinion).I'd be surprised if the quality weren't better on the ET35xx series.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 03:10:41 pm
content: We utilize "Meters" to measure device and circuit parameters, like voltage, current, capacitance, resistance, inductance and so on, and why we employ various precision Bench Type Lab Grade DMMs and LCR Meters (as well as handhelds DMMs and LCR meters, for less precision GP use).The Hioki IM3536 is our "In house reference" for LCR use, and also the Tonghui TH2830. These are high quality Bench Lab Grade LCR meters that allow comparison measurements. We have some precision (0.01%) Caddock and Vishay Resistors for reference, but no precision capacitors. However we have stable Polystyrene, Mica, and NP0/C0G types that we've kept measurement records and periodically compare with the Hioki and Tonghui meters. We feel this is necessary even with these quality well known Lab Grade LCR meters, which are also compared with 3 KS34465A, and a DMM6500 (also HP34401A, AG34401A and SDM3065X).With these ET brand questionable LCR meters, how does one convey confidence in measurements? Precision resistors are available and inexpensive, however reference capacitors that can verify to the "claimed" ET precision levels are not readily available, and likely very expensive.As a side note, the mentioned ET reversed BNC arrangement when using Fixture based Kelvin Clips like the TH26011 or B&K TL89K1 will reverse the polarity of the internal DC bias as "seen" at the colored and labeled Kelvin clips. So one must remember to reverse the Kelvin connections when using internal DC Bias.Anyway, these ET LCR meters seem questionable for any serious use, altho as always YMMV.Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 03:22:01 pm
content: ET4410, cap measuring comparing to ST2830 (TH2830):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg4941505/#msg4941505Next post there is measuring on a "reference".

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 03:34:07 pm
content: Some measurement comparisons are good, some slightly different (outside of specs?), and some not even close (100KHz).This doesn't convey any type of instrument confidence IMO!!!Best,

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 03:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 13, 2023, 03:10:41 pmI think the problems you've spotted could well be down to quality control and may not be intentional or even still present or various scenarios.That said, and to your point, I have my doubts how much you can trust their quality control, "calibration" and specifications.Let's just say, I don't think this going to be like Keithley 2000 (or insert good meter here) you buy 2nd hand, and 30 years later and it is still giving good measurements that are pretty damned accurate.But LCR market doesn't have a well developed middle of the road as far as I can tell.I've done a lot of digging now and I'll admit it is a lot less bleak to me today than it was a week ago.But there isn't much information around, unlike multimeters & scopes, for example.Basically, you either pay enough money to buy a new car or you are stuck with a lot of meh options and trying to make the best of what is around and talking about them here.Because frankly there isn't a good definitive LCR thread even on eevblog that I could find.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 03:45:13 pm
content: @mawyatt:At the end of the day, it's no different in principle(circuit) to the TH2830, for example, but why it's completely off at 100khz was the reason why I bought another one.I wanted to find out and fix it if possible.But time is short...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:10:48 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 13, 2023, 03:34:07 pmPity the results wheren't included in this thread, but measuring tens of uF at 100kHz is asking for trouble so no wonder the results are way off. At 100kHz a 47uF capacitor represents an impedance of 33m Ohm. Good luck trying to measure the amplitude and phase across such a small impedance. When using an LCR meter, it is important to know what the limits of the device are. No matter the price tag.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:11:12 pm
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 13, 2023, 03:41:23 pmLooks as if the design was implemented wrong with BNCs reversed and labeled, so maybe a "Design" QC issue.Agree the old HP34401 and Keithley 2000 were SOTA at their time, and still hold up well today compared to the best DMMs (we have a HP and AG34401)Anyway, Martin72 posts shows some potential measurement issues with the ET which confirms our initial risk assessment. We had advised against this ET4510 on a PM with someone that wants to build our LCR Meter DC Bias Adapter for DC biased capacitance measurements, and recommended they get the TH2830 instead. These OEM bias adapters are expensive (the Hioki 9268 {$842}, Instek LCR-16 {$1008}), maybe we should make this a productBest,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:14:54 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 13, 2023, 04:10:48 pmExactly KTI (Know Thy Instrument), applicable is ALL INSTRUMENTS, including scopesBTW one important attribute of measuring low impedances accurately is DUT test current, here the IM3536 can supply 100ma, the TH2830 67ma.One measurement by Martin that caught our eye was a 1uF reference cap at 10KHz, and another 1uF at 100KHz.Best,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:20:50 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 03:45:13 pmThink all these bridge type LCR meters date way back to a General Radio Instrument.In principle agree, in implementation and detail maybe not so!!Were you able to identify the problem area? If so, how was this corrected?Best,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:39:02 pm
content: BTW another good tip for those not familiar with how these instruments behave and how they actually work, is the Kelvin clips utilized. The inexpensive ones like supplied with the ET (we have a bunch of these, mostly for DC) are all independent cables, thus any flexure or movement can and will change the cable characteristics (capacitance). We often tape these down to the work bench for better repeatability.The better Kelvin clips are the ones with the BNC adapter fixture, like the TH26011CS (comes with TH2830), these have a single cable that extends the first ~600mm, then a breakout box with individual Hc,Hp,Lp & Lc ~300mm shielded cables to the H and L Kelvin clips. Our experience is these types have less variation in use than the single cable types, and more convenient to use.Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:46:34 pm
content: Hi,QuoteThese models are available with 10khz, 20khz and 100Khz test frequencies, otherwise they are identical.I suspect that the frequency has simply been increased without regard to the underlying circuitry.Because up to 10khz the meter performs very well, at 1khz there is no big difference at all to all other meters I could test.The supplied cables could also play a role.The problem is that you don't get any documentation (circuit diagram), and the (hidden) calibration menu is not mentioned anywhere.This makes things a bit tedious and time-consuming.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 05:13:49 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 04:46:34 pmMaybe the amplifier chains weren't properly designed to handle the higher frequencies, especially at higher current levels required by low Z components? High BW amplifiers with good linearity and drive are expensive, comes with the territory!!So basically not even a 100KHz capable LCR meter, makes one wonder about the higher frequency versions from ET??Best,

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 05:26:44 pm
content: I've had a fair amount of discount applied to an order I created for the ET3502 (200kHz) after chatting to the folks (not yet paid, Ali has this option)It is the east tester factory store (100% rating), since anyone can use the name, you have no idea if it is ACTUALLY the east tester factory, but the reviews are in various languages and actually look legit (ie. A+++ best ever vs I tested this meter under these conditions and were happy with this, but didn't like that, etc. in well written English (not language shaming just saying)).Anyway, I'm super tempted to give it a try, the meter looks pretty decent, specs wise.The enclosure also makes it look better.mawyatt@'s concerns about their standards however has me worried about it.That and the fact that you can't find basically a shred of information about this meter anywhere online.Anyway I'm between that and the Hioki which is a bit more expensive and I am worried about it having any potential issues because shipping that beast back will not be cheap.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 06:21:35 pm
content: I wouldn´t worry so much, ET3502 should be in another class.ET44/45XX are really cheap in comparison to whats in their specs, in case of the ET44XX we´re talking about a benchtop meter for the price of a handheld.When the hioki works flawless, of course it would be better than anything mentioned before.But if something is wrong, you got zero support, no new spare parts, only used and expensive.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 08:26:27 pm
content: I would never pay that much for an ET model. Not even close. You can get the Tonghui (or rebrands of it) for that price.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:12:14 pm
content: Had no idea the ET3502 was that expensive!!!Agree, you could get the Tonghui TH2832 for less, which goes to 20-200KHz!!Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:21:48 pm
content: ET3502: 10Hz...200khz in mHz steps.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-lcr-et3500/msg2645535/#msg2645535Looks not bad, but I agree, when it´s cost more than 800$, a (known) TH would be the safer choice.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 10:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 13, 2023, 09:12:14 pmWhere are you getting these prices from? Its not even close to being less.- TH2832 200kHz is $1500- ET3501 100kHz is $610 (its been on sale for sub $550)- ET3502 200kHz is $710

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:17:19 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 13, 2023, 09:12:14 pmCould you link to where it could be had for less than $700? That is what the ET3502 costs...But I mean even if it can be had for $800 I agree it is the better product to get.EDIT: I can't seem to see the TH2830 for less than $891 (claimed to be with free shipping) fromhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32812269260.htmlBut this sellers feedback page is full of red flags like asked for more money to be sent outside the platform, sent wrong product and asked for it to be sent back, etc.Everyone else is selling just the 2830 for > $1000 far as I could see.I mean even the TH2830 looks like a great product but if it is $1000 without shipping (+ another ~$150 to my location) and the ET3502 is $700 with shipping, it is quite a difference.

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:53:17 pm
content: Ok, guys you've convinced me, TH2830 can be found for $900. Diving into the hack to 2832 thread now, either way this is already beyond my budget that I wanted to spend (crying a bit tbh).I do appreciate all the advise given by everyone btw.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 12:39:43 am
content: Quote from: GnomeZA on December 13, 2023, 11:17:19 pmJust saw something over $1000 for an ET type, probably a higher frequency model. The TH2830 has been hacked by KungFuJosh into a TH2832, so for $1000 one could get a TH2830, thus our comment (think he got his TH2830 for under $800).If you look at a video ET teardown and compare to even a Matrix 5200, the ET looks pretty skimpy. Note the type power transformer utilized by both, Matrix uses similar style to Tonghui.Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.Best,

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 12:45:11 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 14, 2023, 12:39:43 amI've ordered the TH2830I shall attempt the hack too.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 03:31:51 pm
content: Seems you've made a well informed decision, good luck with whatever you decide.Make sure to visit the various posts wrt to lab grade bench LCR meter fixtures, adapters, plotting software and such. Be careful this sort of capability within a limited budget and DIY type fixtures can become addictive, don't ask how we knowhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/bias-network-for-lcr-meter/msg4170607/#msg4170607https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lcr-smd-fixture-modification/msg4225168/#msg4225168https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lcr-meter-plot-software/msg4810088/#msg4810088Here's some examples of that mentioned "addictive nature"Best

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 09:43:19 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 14, 2023, 03:31:51 pmYou read my mindI'm trying to find decently priced place to buy the fixture.Btw. you guys keep saying that it needs some modification. You have any info on that?Again just want to say thanks for the inputs here, saves me a lot of time and having actually done the research on the TH2830, it is so much better than the ET series of products that I'm actually glad my previous order didn't get shipped.

author: Andrey_Ak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 04:33:53 am
content: Hello!I requested from the manufacturer a program for controlling theRuoShui 4091CLCR meter in English:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg5231736/#msg5231736Here is the link:https://tis.kz/temp/LCR_setup_Eng.zip

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 10:16:19 am
content: Does anyone know if these meters have any sort of protection against charged caps?

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 02:10:21 pm
content: Quote from: pope on January 03, 2024, 10:16:19 amThe manual says nothing, but I think it is safe to assume that it does not.I've yet to see an LCR meter that suggest connecting charged capacitors.