Interesting vid on through-hole LED manufacturing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 05:21:32 pm
content: One of the things I love about seeing volume automation like this is the mix of high- and low-tech ways of getting things done. Using sticky plastic sheets to handle the raw dice and then repositioning them for automated picking by just stretching the plastic out is really clever.Also seeing all of the little intermediate steps that make a process work, like at 9:34, it looks like they're using a drum to apply a small amount of encapsulant onto the top of the leadframe to ensure bubbles aren't trapped at the die when it's put into the mold.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 07:21:36 pm
content: I am ALWAYS amazed at the machinery at these plants. I would love to see how these machines are developed and the accuracy is also amazing.

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 03:27:01 am
content: Quote from: ajb on September 15, 2024, 05:21:32 pmI won't be surprised if that's actually some special heat/UV resistant polymer (silicone?). You need some more durability close to the die while the rest can use cheaper optical plastic.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 04:35:42 am
content: Interesting video.Tragically at 11:52, we see a little LED left behind, never to bring light to someone's world.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 12:00:16 pm
content: I enjoy the clean, state of the art process room and machines. Then a oven that is old and well used.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 05:24:28 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on September 16, 2024, 12:00:16 pmClean? I hope the person snorthing phosphor everyday makes it to retirement age. And likely there are quite a bit of fumes coming from the various glues and resins as well. It doesn't look like a healthy workplace to me at all.I'm also very surprised they put the LEDs in bags as if they are peanuts. There is no chance an automated pick&place will be able to use those once they arrive at an assembly plant.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 12:41:44 am
content: Infamous wireless LED strap at 11:29Quote from: nctnico on September 16, 2024, 05:24:28 pmThat UV cure resin definitely gives off nasty smells.Clean as in, floors are clean and its not some greasy black machines, which, it probably has to be to keep defects down.QuoteThe bags are fairly small, maybe more for hand assembly, like the products they show at the end or small toys. For big manufacturers they could leave them on the metal strips.But buying a LED bowl feeder is not too hard if needed:

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 04:22:42 am
content: The test process for the flashing LEDs is interesting, I wonder if the leds have a first-power-up test mode that does that 3-die test and then burns a fuse to disable it perhaps.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 08:53:33 am
content: Quote from: BILLPOD on September 15, 2024, 07:21:36 pmMe too - there must be hundreds of companies that do nothing but design production machinery like this - would be fascinating to see the whole design and testing process. I'm always amazed at how much stuff there is just to transport product from place to place.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 08:55:36 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 17, 2024, 12:41:44 amBut to be fair the LED die are literally shorted out by the leadframe at that point so zero risk of ESD damage

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 10:00:27 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 16, 2024, 05:24:28 pmFor manufacturers with insertion machines, through hole LED's are available on reels.We try very hard not to use through hole LED's at all, preferring SMD wherever possible. When we absolutely have to use them they are hand soldered so the bag is fine, but it is rare these days.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 10:18:08 am
content: Considering the LEDs start off on a leadframe, and some customers might want to receive them that way, I'm a little surprised to see them being bade in short strips rather than as a continuous process. Maybe it's too hard to get that reliable, as any jam could hold up the whole line

author: Phil1977
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 10:45:59 am
content: Such a nice process and all for this only annoying self-blinking type(But obviously millions of people who want an acrylic Buddha in their car like that...)

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 12:18:05 pm
content: QuoteI was wondering if that might be a reason this video is available now. Perhaps the writing is on the wall for this type of LED so they're not worried about some competition using the info in the video to start up and undercut them - maybe fairly soon they will be the sole, or one of the very few, manufacturers left.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 05:16:36 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on September 17, 2024, 04:22:42 amThat's an interesting thought. From what I've seen, a lot of those self-flashing LEDs go through a fairly quick sequence at startup anyway before they go through other cycles, which could be a production optimization? I've gone looking for RGB LEDs that specifically have a slow color cycle for a silly little lamp project, and they're hard to find.Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 17, 2024, 10:18:08 amSeems like it would be hard in a lot of ways, given the number of steps involved. You'd either need a big and very complex line to do everything in one go, which would be a ton of work to set up and change over between products, or you would need a way to handle and store big reels of partly-assembled LEDs between steps without damaging them (especially between wirebonding and encapsulation). The little trays of strips seem to be a good compromise between throughput and handleability. I'd be curious how much volume companies like the one in the video do compared to some of the big LED brands, in terms of quantity per PN. Maybe a big continuous line makes more sense if you run batches of a million, but I would guess companies like we see here are set up to be a bit more nimble than that.Quote from: PlainName on September 17, 2024, 12:18:05 pmI doubt there's any real secret sauce in the video. There will be a ton of invisible details that are critical to the process, like specific recipes for preparing the encapsulation and phosphor materials, tuning the speeds/forces/quantities used in the automation equipment, etc. It's kinda like trying to replicate a moderate-complexity electronic device from a photo of the PCB: you can kinda see what parts are involved and, with some knowledge, fill in the gaps about how everything is connected, but it will still take some work to figure out what specific parts are suitable, detailed layout considerations, etc.