PCB Droid - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 02:11:57 pm
content: PCB Droid claims to have 270,000 usershttp://pcbdroid.com/Has anyone ever used this thing?Almost 4000 reviews on the android storehttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theophrast.droidpcb&hl=en&showAllReviews=trueWho's using this thing?They have a new desktop version coming out in April.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 02:36:14 pm
content: I have not heard of it before.PS: Their responsive webpage drives me nuts.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 02:43:04 pm
content: I kinda doubt the figures here as well.Just looking at their forum - 22 users and 3 topics.I have a hard time believing there would be so little activity on the forum with 270k+ users and 320k+ projects... Doesn't really add up, especially for a new service like this where I guess there would be a lot of questions and bug reports...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 04:40:15 pm
content: And the team has only 1 developer. What happens if he leaves?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 05:00:10 pm
content: It.says on site that beta will come out soon. So no users at all...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 12:27:27 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 20, 2019, 05:00:10 pmThat's the new version that does desktop too that they claim will be targeted at "professionals" (they contacted me). At present it's only a phone app. Why the hell you'd want to do PCB design in an app is beyond me. Maybe if you were so desperate with your time you need to do a few tracks while waiting at the bug stop or something.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 12:36:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2019, 12:27:27 amThebugstop sounds about right in this case.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 03:36:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2019, 12:27:27 amI once saw a kid playing a tablet game that's essentially routing a few traces on a grid. Didn't ask what it's called.Tim

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 06:46:16 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 21, 2019, 03:36:13 amThere may be others but this is one:Flow freehttps://www.bigduckgames.com/flowfreeUsed to play it a bit but it felt too much like work.Its funny I have seen no mention of PCB or electronics or circuits in that game or on their wikipedia page.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 11:28:36 am
content: They claim their users are all in south east asia and who "skipped the PC era".

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 11:38:40 am
content: Designing PCBs on 15" CRT was not fun.WTF kind of PCB can you make on a phone with one finger? Whatever it is, you can make it faster on protoboard with few wires..What a joke..

author: ehughes
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 09:27:40 pm
content: CAD on a mobile device is the dumbest idea I have ever heard of.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2019, 10:39:04 pm
content: I get blinded by all those flashy images and blinkenlights.I'll just stick to a normal PC with a Mouse and Keyboard to do my PCB designs.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2019, 12:23:15 am
content: Quote from: ehughes on March 21, 2019, 09:27:40 pmWith a finger. "I am going to finger it" will mean " I will design this PCB".

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2019, 12:53:28 pm
content: The screen of phones can be easily viewed on a 4K 75" tv, If is a good phone in 4k resolution

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 07:07:14 am
content: Just try using windows on a touch screen, you soon reach for the mouse again. I really can't see how you can do anything as nuanced on a phone screen projected to a larger screen or not.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 09:49:45 am
content: True story:I have a friend who went into a heated discussion with me some time ago about how he thinks that phones and tablets will make classic PC obsolete and how they will stop making PCs because nobody will need them anymore. Him not being an technical or IT person, I made a mistake to try to explain him few things. He persisted that he can do everything on his tablet that I can do on my PC.Few weeks later he came to me with a fancy expensive tablet and showed me how he can do this and that.. So I invited him home and show him PCB CAD. and this, and that, explaining that those are things I do on my PC and that he can't do that on the tablet.After few more weeks he invited me to his place to have coffee and to show me something..When I came, he explained to me that he was thinking and that he decided that I was right that he cannot replace a PC with THAT tablet he got because it wasn't good enough. And because I showed him what I do, he went and got a good tablet that CAN replace my PC in EVERY aspect.So we are going into his home office. And there on the desk was most expensive MS Surface with docking station, 27" monitor, keyboard, mouse....And then he went on that I was wrong and that he proved how tablets make PC obsolete.After I explained to him is that a computing unit, that is Intel based, runs full windows, has 27" monitor, keyboard, mouse IS full blown PC, he was little confused..And after realizing that I payed much less for my PC + Android tablet than he paid for his "one tablet to rule them all" he was confused even more.So yes, people are irrational..

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 07:47:02 pm
content: ok so I am away at the moment and have with me my touch screen laptop (acer spin equivalent of a surface), yep it runs windows and everything and guess what. I was writing an email and wanted to place the cursor between 2 mispelt words, could I? No! becaune all I can do is touch the screen and that is one action, so the default is to bring up the spelling menu, and all I wanted to do was position the cursor......Touch screens allow one action only, with a mouse you can be more precise and do so much more and you need that fo more in depth interaction.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 09:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on April 12, 2019, 09:49:45 amThis just made me laugh. And yet I'm currently developing software on an embedded ARM platform instead of cross-compiling. Yes, that means running full blown Linux and Eclipse on an ARM development board!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 09:33:10 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 12, 2019, 09:23:56 pmI'm not surprised you do. Problem is not in processing power anymore. It is in user interface and chunkiness of one finger on touch screen and tablet interfaces.They are low res and simplified and while that's fine for some (even many) uses, it is not even close to usability of "real" computer in many tasks.I actually took Raspberry PI, connected it to monitor, keyboard, mouse and Ethernet. It was perfectly usable in Libre Office. PI 3 would be even better.But that is with proper peripheral config. Good luck with pro photoshoping with tablet UI.. Like Simon said.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 09:38:57 pm
content: And how will that ARM board be interacted with ?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 09:43:29 pm
content: Just looked at their website, so it runs on windows and mac now. OOPs that touchscreen dream was short lived. Just another PCB tool no one asked for. I wonder if they can import/export altium libraries?

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 09:50:15 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 12, 2019, 07:47:02 pmThat doesn't sound normal. If you're getting a menu then you're holding it for too long or swiping at the same time. Single/double tap for left click. Tap and hold for right click.Quote from: Simon on April 12, 2019, 07:47:02 pmIt isn't just one action only as there are touchscreen gestures to do various things like left/right click, zoom in/out, rotation and scrolling.https://winaero.com/blog/list-touch-gestures-windows-10/has a list of all the gestures.Windows 8 was actually a lot more optimised for touchscreens but Microsoft tried to force it on everybody and desktop/laptop users hated it so they backtracked with the design of Windows 10. Windows 8 worked better on my Surface Pro than the latest Windows 10. You do need compatible apps though to support the larger touchscreen controls. The separate tablet mode in Windows 10 which you may need to toggle manually was their compromise over Windows 8. The convertible laptop/tablet ones usually auto switch but regular laptops with a touchscreen will need it to be toggled manually. Some devices bundle a pen for more accurate selection because of the issues with a touchscreen.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 10:14:16 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 12, 2019, 09:38:57 pmWith a monitor, mouse and keyboard like you would with a normal PC. 1Gbit ethernet takes care of network connectivity. A very fast micro-SD card serves as a hard drive and I must say the speed isn't bad.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 06:26:40 am
content: Quote from: tsman on April 12, 2019, 09:50:15 pmThat is all well and good with something like windows where your jesture is applicable to a large part of the screen. what jesture will you do on a touch screen to interact with one in dozens of tracks without affecting the others? to say that a touch screen is going to oust the mouse is naive at best.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 06:31:44 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 12, 2019, 10:14:16 pmso it's not actually like a tablet at all. There are plenty of low power platforms made by intel and AMD as well and I had a tablet with and intel all in one job which was not much better than a mobile phone. There is a lot of crossover in the market and that is what confuses the non technical user.Sure they market the surface as a tablet but those things come with dual channel DDR4 RAM and i7 processors. on the other hand I expect the ARMs will catch up although they are not primarily aimed at "desktop use"

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 07:14:25 am
content: Doesn't seem to run of x32, try ipad... needs ios10. Give up

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 08:37:33 am
content: Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2019, 06:31:44 amI have Microsoft Surface and I consider it quite slow for many applications. I can barely even do a decent screen capture, and forget about screen capture with even a low res webcam in a window.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 04:57:08 pm
content: Well it is microsoft.......

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 06:11:47 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2019, 06:26:40 amPinch zoom or use a pen? I prefer a mouse + keyboard but there are plenty of people who have an iPad or Android tablet as their only computer and do everything on it.Quote from: EEVblog on April 13, 2019, 08:37:33 amThe Surface tablets are notorious for very heavy CPU throttling for cooling reasons.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 06:43:50 pm
content: What are these people that only use touch I puts doing? Not PCB design I bet.Ah yes reality versus desires, Acer spins have the same problem not that I notice performance issues but they were clearly over zealous with allowing 200% overclock, I disabled it as I am not happy with the heat and in the time it took to let Windows setup it had already distorted the case.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 07:17:25 pm
content: When I explain it to my non tech friends, you can use PC to "consume stuff" or "create stuff".So you can watch, read, liste to content someone else created.That takes care of all Youtube, newspapers, books, any content you browse trough. Here all you have to do is to navigate, start and stop and such. Also you can read your e-mails, facebook or such, and occasionally write some response. Mind you, response won't be long, will be in bastardized shorthand (that people invented because it was awkward to type) most of the time with no proper punctuation and grammar. But sometimes you just need to know that your sales rep sent you the quote, you might even open it and check numbers quickly. And then respond with :" Thanks Brian, I ll talk 2 you tomorrow..."If that is what you use your computer for 90% of the time, yeah, you'll be able to do that on a tablet. Or a phone to that matter. Because you only "consume stuff" and that can be done with dumbed down interface of tablet like devices.Everything else, where you actually have to answer with a coherent text, that has more than few sentences, that have some kind of formating, where you actually create content of any substance beyond instagramming or "thanks I ll call you tomorrow when I get to office" you cannot do on tablets. Screens are cretinously small, you have no normal keyboard on which you can type with 10 fingers and have keyboard shortcuts, and your pointing device has a resolution and accuracy of points of the compass (" he went North, officer", said he pointing finger towards the mountains..).Even proper E-mail response is much easier on a propper PC. Creating any kind of report, editing photos, writing documentation, programming, doing any kind of CAD, circuit simulation, etc. etc...It is as simple as that. The fact that some people, at great effort, are occasionally doing something a bit more complicated on tablet platforms, is a testament of how misguided they are, not that it it's a smart to do..

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 07:32:56 pm
content: It looks like they recently change their website hence the annoying WordPress theme and the empty forum. It wasn't there in the last archive.org snapshot.Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2019, 06:43:50 pmIf a single tablet with pen can cover everything they need then why not? For some people, their office is actually the local coffee shop so getting it all into a tablet sounds like a win. As I said before, this isn't something I'd want to use but different strokes for different folks. Doubt you'd want to do anything complicated but looks usable for Makers designing stuff for Tindie etc...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 07:33:59 pm
content: Yes quite, consumption versus creation, I am just like that and this response is short because it's a phone. I do viewing on touchscreen devices and limited responses like this but quickly move to a pc or better laptop for anything extensive.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 07:37:32 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on April 13, 2019, 07:32:56 pmYou can fit a well speced laptop on your lap (clue is in the name) and a mouse can be used on a sofa, the space thing for tablets is BS. I am still waiting to be told how you run and edit a track with a touchscreen.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 07:39:40 pm
content: I give up. Just continue using your mouse and keyboard. Leave tablets and touchscreens for people who understand how to use them.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 08:09:11 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on April 13, 2019, 07:39:40 pmdo they? then try and enlighten a young fool.....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 08:24:36 pm
content: A stylus could do it. Lots of people use Wacom input tablets (without display) as input device for using CAD packages.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 08:27:30 pm
content: What is a Wacom input tablet? remember we were talking about mobile phones not dedicated graphical pads that replace mice?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2019, 09:25:44 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2019, 08:27:30 pmWell it shouldn't take much imagination to combine an input tablet and a regular tablet + stylus to be able to do CAD.Actually Wacom thought of that by themselves too:

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 06:48:58 am
content: I'm sure they did think of it and while pressing an icon in a program may look inspiring no one has yet explained how you deal with the various operations using just a finger on a screen. The pens are mouse replacements so don't really count I am afraid.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 06:58:17 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 13, 2019, 08:24:36 pmThat would be horrible, as the non-registration between tablet and screen position would be frustrating and tiresome. Touch screen is the proper solution for that.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 08:40:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 14, 2019, 06:58:17 amWhile I haven't used them for PCB design, I did use old Wacom's of various sizes for graphic design (usually on classic Mac OS running PowerMacs) quite a bit, the relative scaling is one of those things that either just clicks with you or doesn't.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 10:38:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 14, 2019, 06:58:17 amDid you ever try it or just made an assumption? You won't get users of a Wacom tablet back to using a mouse or trackball so they must be on to something (and strongly disagree with your statement).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 10:40:19 am
content: Quote from: Simon on April 14, 2019, 06:48:58 amNow you are just moving goal posts. The original claim is that you can't use a touchscreen for CAD at all; this clearly isn't true.

author: bsdphk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 10:53:39 am
content: If you have not actually tried a Wacom, you shouldn't dismiss it that glibly.They are incredibly popular with their users, and their styles is a lot more flexible than a normal mouse pointer is (pressure sensitive, several buttons, double ended with different behaviours etc.)I have not tried one myself for PCB layout, but I easily see how it could be a major productivity booster if that is your job.The footnote is that the layout program needs to be configurable to take all the extra input signals, and I don't know if they are.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 10:58:33 am
content: Going off topic..Entering fact that not even a mouse is good enough for pro work is another nail in the tablet coffin.Simply: Can you design a PCB on a 6" phone or a 10" tablet with one finger ?Resounding and definite NOOO..

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 02:16:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 14, 2019, 10:40:19 amListen, trouble maker that has to be always right! the claim in the OP was that this software will allow me to do a PCB design at a bus stop on my phone. I don't care what YOU have decided it is, if you don't like it get out!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 02:17:51 pm
content: Quote from: bsdphk on April 14, 2019, 10:53:39 amnctnico is well known for starting rows by re-establishing constantly what the topic is about when he is not happy with the replies........

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 02:49:40 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 14, 2019, 02:16:25 pmIMHO you seem to be the one who is stuck in his own believes. Why even bother posting if you don't want to learn any new insights anyway? Are you going to lock this thread too because you don't like the answers?Let me give you a small history lesson. Back in the old days we used 14" (effectively 11") monitors with a resolution of 640x480 to design boards. Heck; I've even used a Toshiba Libretto (which is the size of a VHS casette / A5 sized book) to design boards. So why would a (big) smart phone or a small tablet (both together with a stylus) be out of the question?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 03:18:31 pm
content: Ladies, please.Let us not lose sight of the intent, due to the poor ambiguity of natural language.Obviously, it was (and still is) possible to do real work on, say, vintage graphics hardware.The present question isthis:is itpracticalto do work on a given system, that is, is itmore productivethan a traditional workstation with keyboard and mouse?When one says "it can't be done", it's not meant to be taken literally, but used as shorthand for this question. That is, to be understood in the context of this thread.To deny and change context on the fly, is disingenuous to everyone else, who are mostly reading this thread for ideas. No one cares about a pedantic or trifling argument.So, just because it's possible to do work on a 640x480 machine, doesn't mean you're rushing out to get a spare Pentium from the local Goodwill and put Protel or Autotrax or whatever on it. Because that just wouldn't be practical, would it?Back on topic: have Simon or Dave actually used a Wacom or similar tablet? From what little I've used, they seem to be quite good. Accuracy is achieved through feedback as usual; the pen moves the cursor when in proximity, and action is made when pressing. Precision is much better, with natural proprioceptive motion and no ballistics. There are multiple buttons on the tablet face (typically mapped to common actions: change pen/style, mode / select / whatever, etc.), and three (or more?) on the pen itself (e.g., pen down, thumb-forward and thumb-backward).Now, using that kind of interface, with software that wasn't designed for it, may be more challenging than productive, even with the accuracy improvement. There are a lot of shortcuts in, say, Altium, that you simply don't have enough face buttons for on a tablet. You'll have to poke at menus constantly, or have a keyboard off to the side anyway (which will be just as slow to use, having to look over and reach to it with your free hand). And then you might as well use a mouse instead, it's more compact.Could an EDA tool be designed around a tablet, or changed to support one, and use it effectively? I think the answer is, unquestionably, yes. Altium is unlikely to do this (unless they have already, and I'm completely ignorant of it?), but a very keen user could perhaps develop KiCAD to do so!Doing real  work, entirely on a smart phone, I don't know about that. The working area is just so small, relative to your fingers. You have precision in a given gesture, but not many degrees of freedom as far as where to begin and end such gestures. Consider the lowly on-screen keyboard: at a dozen keys across, it's already straining to provide accurate results, especially if you're going fast (for which a predictive dictionary is a must!). Entering arbitrary text, accurately and quickly, is all but impossible.Now, on a tablet as such, it's not so bad -- there is room to put your hands down and do touch typing. There is a lot of area for your fingers to gesture over, and multi-finger (and multi-hand!) gestures are very feasible. The lack of tactile feedback (hmm, for now, perhaps?) is a big barrier totouchtyping, though.Tim

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 03:34:59 pm
content: Altium might be working on browser-based CAD as we speak. The fast decline of Windows in the engineering sector forces the CAD software makers to support Mac and Linux. And they probably want to do this in a way they can support as many platforms as possible. For example: in the latest version of Orcad Capture the symbol editor is web-browser based.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 02:19:52 am
content: Quote from: bsdphk on April 14, 2019, 10:53:39 amA few of my friends are graphic artists/designers and they all swear by their Wacom pen tablets. They literally cannot do most of their work without one. The mouse is simply not a proper substitute for how they draw. The tablets are pressure sensitive, so they can emulate bolder or thinner lines simply by how hard they touch the tablet.Ages ago, I had a Wacom Pen Partner. (This is so long ago that it plugged into the PS/2 mouse port to steal power and the actual interface to the computer was the serial port.) I did use it for PCB and schematics, with Accel (prior to its purchase by PCAD) and also Electronics Workbench and Ultiboard. It was clumsy to use until you grokked how the applications worked. Remember that with these programs, say to draw a trace, you click the mouse where you want to start the trace, then move the mouse to the endpoint of the trace or a spot where it should make an angle and click again. With the pen, the natural inclination is to put the pen on the "paper" and drag, that is, you don't lift the pen from the tablet until you have moved to the spot that's the end of your line.The Wacom would interpret touching the pen to the tablet as a left-mouse-button click, and it interpreted keeping the pen on the tablet as a drag. Lifting the pen was the unclick action. (The pen also had a button you could squeeze near where you held it, that was the right mouse button.) So to draw a trace for layout, you could "click" on the starting point by tapping the pen on the tablet, then you moved the pen to the endpoint and tap to click again. The mouse cursor would follow the location of the pen nib even when lifted from the tablet surface. With a bit of practice, this became natural and quick to do. Just flick your wrist, tap on the Add Trace toolbar icon, and go.Oh, yeah, the Wacom software let you calibrate the touch tablet, and the darn thing was really accurate.There were some annoyances, mostly related to how keyboards are designed. For example, I'm right-handed, so I hold the pen in my right hand. If your PCB program uses Page-Up and Page-Down as zoom in and out, well, those keys are on the right-hand side of the keyboard, so reaching them with your left hand to zoom is kinda awkward. Of course, one could simple redefine the hotkeys for various actions, say F1 and F2 for zoom in and out, or whatever. Or you could get a standalone numeric keyboard and put that to the left of the main keyboard, and work that with your left hand.Everyone who's poo-pooing the idea of using a tablet for PCB CAD might just want to see what Wacom offers. In addition to the Intuos tablet (the newest version of my old Pen Partner, and it costs $70), they sell the Cintiq pen displays with 4k resolution, in sizes up to 32" (yikes!), so you can have the "power" of a desktop PC with fast graphics cards and the ability to write and draw on it. They sell a ballsy Windows-based pen computer called the Mobile Studio, which I suppose competes with the Microsoft Surface and has a huge display.I remember a Prime CAD system at my first job after college (late 80s). It had a display, a keyboard, a tethered stylus, and a large tablet with marked areas for operations.I have the 12.9" iPad Pro with the Apple Pencil and the keyboard case. The display has higher resolution than a lot of laptops. It can render and do things with AutoDesk Fusion 360 and it seems to be powerful enough (at least for simple things like rendered PCBs and enclosures). My wife has the slightly smaller version, also with the Pencil and the keyboard case. Many times she's used it instead of the laptop for Real Work. The keyboard is the secret, really, because you can actually type. So writing and updating documents is easy. You don't have to do SMS in your emails. I can read and post on this forum using the standard desktop site and not the mobile. Basically, when using my iPad Pro, I've sometimes thought that there's no particular reason why itcouldn'tbe used with Kicad.(Doing any kind of CAD work on a smartphone is, of course, completely silly.)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 06:41:31 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 14, 2019, 02:49:40 pmi repeat once again, the claim was that the app can be used to do PCB design on the go on a mobile phone and no one in support of this can explain how you replace full mouse funtionality - or a tablet with stylus which I have considered mysefl as a MOUSE REPLACEMENT !!!!!Yes I have used very old systems myself mthankyou and they had a mouse! I did PCB design at school on 386's with the same 640*480 screens using orcad for DOS, and still this had more control than todays touchscreen phones.No I won't lock this nthread, I will just ban YOU!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 08:57:28 am
content: @Bassman59Nobody argues that you cannot dig a pool with a spoon. Of course you can but it wouldn't be very efficient, would it ?There is a reason why people doing CAD usually have two 24"+ monitors when doing their job.I started doing PCB's log time ago on 14" CRT and it was no fun, I tell you.Doing it on a tablet would be worse.As I said, when doing CAD RIGHT you use BOTH HANDS, keyboard shortcuts, digitizing tablets (like Wacom) all at the SAME TIME.When doing something, you also open multiple windows SIDE BY SIDE. When typing text, skilled typist can type in HUNDREDS of words per minute..Etc, etc.As opposed to one finger on 10" (or 12") screen.Yeah, it can be done. Is it smart, efficient? Or is it digging a pool with a spoon?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 09:15:39 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on April 15, 2019, 02:19:52 amNo one is poo pooing the idea of a tablet as in a touch pad that replaces the mouse. I have been considering it myself.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 09:44:41 am
content: One important thing to keep in mind is that a device which has a touch screen needs to run applications which are designed for use with a touch screen. Just adding a touch screen as a mouse replacement is likely not going to work well. OTOH a touch screen offers a lot more possibilities because you can touch multiple spots at once and make 'gestures'.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 10:54:48 am
content: Well they are developing for PC and MAC as well so they will need to develop 2 distinct interfaces. My experience of touchscreens is that the amount of different interactions you can have on the same point is limited giving a margin for error. A long press for a right click seems to be the standard. Depending on how big the screen is a fat finger will be less accurate at identifying the point of interest than the single pixel acuracy of a mouse pointer. The other thing to consider is paralax error, at a certain point you will aim for a point on the screen and miss it slightly depending on the various angles of aproach of your finger, the screen to your eye angle I get this a lot when I am at a funny angle to the screen. This is not a problem on most interfaces where icons are being pressed but it can get tricky if you are trying to select a track or a via where the track cover the via.Screen size is the other factor. While I have installed CS on my 12" touchscreen laptop I would never dream of actually using it on there for any length of time. If you need more buttons for functions so that you can touch them then you need more screen, I am sure that anyone designing an interface probably has this compromise to make of accessibility to functions versus amount of buttons/icons on the screen with the lesser used functions going in menu's and right click menus for specific function menu's.