Teen Invents Flashlight That Could Change The World - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 04:59:44 am
content: I didn't see this mentioned here, but it should be. Apologies if it was and I missed it.http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/teen-invents-flashlight-could-change-world-182121097.htmlTeen Invents Flashlight That Could Change The WorldFebruary 25, 2014Thermal gradient between body heat (hand) and room temperature --> peltier cells --> power conversion circuit --> LEDs.Really clever idea.Both parents are ham radio operators. Plus she's cute too. Why isn't she a member of this forum?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 05:32:02 am
content: Was not this a story last year?I personally don't see how it could change anything. Somehow this got promoted out of 100's cool projects that are done each year.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 05:37:46 am
content: I wonder how much energy you could harvest from a sleeping bag lined with hundreds of tiny flexible peltier cells.Recharge your phone while you sleep!

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 05:44:25 am
content: Here is the same story from June 2013 -http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/160003-15-year-old-girl-invents-flashlight-powered-by-the-heat-of-your-hand.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 06:06:02 am
content: >> Teen Invents Flashlight That Could Change The WorldThe human race just left the Before The Flashlight era and entered the After The Flashlight era. Life will not be the same. Expect big changes here at eevblog.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 07:33:03 am
content: This is stupid, just making an article out of something not really special. I may sound racist but I'd bet if the girl was Chinese or not perfectly white and beautiful with nice teeth and all that, nobody would even write an article about it.I mean, everyone thought about it, but probably nobody did this before of the poor conversion efficiency and lack of very high efficiency leds.We have something very similar for years now ..... a coil of wire, a permanent magnet, a capacitor or supercapacitor , a bunch of leds.. shake the flashlight and you have light. I bet it's also cheaper than peltier elements and it would also work better in all kinds of weather.. for example in winters when you go outside and your hands are in gloves or very gold.

author: 6E5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 08:12:24 am
content: What if you live in the Arctic and it's -30? Even if you had any substantial body heat radiating, who has bare hands in that type of weather? This is not something new, it's basically a thermocouple connected to a light bulb... Been around for 100 years.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 11:12:03 am
content: Well I like the idea but this is probably more efficient and effective and proved itself here in WW2:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanically_powered_flashlightStill the combination of Peltier elements and the human body could have more interesting uses.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 12:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 03, 2014, 07:33:03 amI don't know, maybe these "thermal flashlights" will start showing up all over Alibaba as novelty items (just like those "bladeless" fan things), just like the shake ones.Except these will stop working once the whole thing is uniformly warmed up to the same temperature, and they will just not work in extremely hot climates.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 02:53:13 pm
content: Add a little harvester circuit and a coin cell liion and you would not have to hold it all the time. Plus, knce charged you can get more brightness. Linear tech has harvesters that work from 0.3 volt ...

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 02:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 03, 2014, 05:44:25 amWhere she says "and I needed only 0.5mW to obtain a good usable LED brightness".Wonder what they would say about that on the candle power forums.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 02:59:09 pm
content: 0.5mW is adequate for an indicator, but you're not going to see much with it.

author: rexxar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 04:23:35 pm
content: I don't see what's so special about this. It's an expensive, inefficient, almost unusably dim flashlight. How is this better than the shake flashlights, or the ones with cranks, or other mechanical power? I've had cheap flashlights where you pull a lever that spins a motor that just dumps charge into a NiCad pack. At least with a mechanical type system you can ALWAYS get some sort of use. Like said before, once the whole device warms up, or if it's hot outside, the thing won't work.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 05:37:33 pm
content: Quote from: Dawgie on March 03, 2014, 04:37:54 pmShake ones can be charged by shaking and then used normally. Otherwise you won't be able to use it anyway, because who needs a flashlight that is shaking like crazy?This one is not very useful without at least one hand either.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 06:38:23 pm
content: Quote from: 6E5 on March 03, 2014, 08:12:24 amWell, the lower the ambient temperature, the more efficient it'll be but I know what you mean.Quote from: Psi on March 03, 2014, 05:37:46 amFor any decent amount of power, the sleeping bag will have to leak a lot of body heat so will feel cold.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 07:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 03, 2014, 07:33:03 amYes, you sound racist but it does not mean that you are not right ;-)This story is on the nexus of women in engineering/sciences and sustainable/green energy. Both are politically correct themes so no surprise it got published. Contrast this with more influential achievements like fracking by oil corporations run by older greedy white males.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 11:21:34 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on March 03, 2014, 02:53:13 pmI was thinking one of the LT harvesters, super cap and peltier, whilst coin cells are great, if you want to add say a strobe mode for signalling a rescue vehicle, i don't think the coin cell could handle the current.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 11:31:51 pm
content: One thing I noticed from the text on the Yahoo site (I'm not allowed to watch the video, apparently) was this"At roughly 24 lumens, Ann’s flashlight’s brightness falls shy of commercial flashlights, which output dozens if not hundreds of lumens."At 24 lumens for 0.5mW of power that's 48000 lumens per wattSo it might be somewhat ground breaking as I that seems to be well above 100% efficiency.Or not, as the case might beKudos to her anyway if she had the idea for herself and turned it into a practical design - more than most 15 year olds would manage.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 10:08:58 am
content: Quote from: zapta on March 03, 2014, 07:30:17 pmYes, welcome to the world of the media. You need angles to make stories people want to read, or what publishers think people want to read. This one has several angles:1) It's a girl doing technology2) It's a young girl3) It's a cute girl4) It's save the world blah-blahIt ticks all the boxes.The only way it could get better is if she was a deaf mute amputee, or a refugee from some poor village in Africa or something.Unfortunately this is how the world of the media works. Stories are stories because they either have out-of-the-ordinary angles to them, or a combination enough to make it appear interesting to the punters.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 12:41:50 pm
content: Flashlights in non-emergency situations are best still battery powered for sheer lumen/watt output, such as security guards, searchlights etc.,For emergency use, the last thing you need is something that will steal heat away from you. Even in temperate climates, protection from cold is important. The bodies first response in emergencies is to sap heat from your extremities to conserve it in your core, so charging something by holding it would take a long time, if at all. A more useful thing if you were in a bind in a terrestrial condition would be power generated from walking [ electromechanical transducer in your shoes, many such designs]. In ocean emergencies it would be solar power; combine them both for an ultimate emergency power source and back it all up with a crank generator in a MILSPEC water and shock proof case.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 01:46:04 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 03, 2014, 07:30:17 pmHer mom was from the Philippines and her dad appeared to be eastern European. So not fully white.As far as fracking goes, it's been around a lot longer than the past few years, but suddenly it's the bogey man.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 02:44:50 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on March 04, 2014, 12:41:50 pmA very large percentage of Americans have plenty of "excess energy" that would be better used than stored.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 05:19:46 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 03, 2014, 07:33:03 amShe's half Filipino. Pretty darned close to China.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 04:13:12 pm
content: Dave nailed it! Big picture here guys. Wouldn't you prefer living in a world where every teenager understood how a peltier device, and led, and how some physics work? All you have to do is find that first little step for a kid to get I to the world of REAL science and technology for them to look at the world differently and know everything has a explanation and obeys the laws of physics. We need more of that. What were your projects like at that age? Most of mine involved 9 volt batteries, relays, and capacitors to do simple things is very inefecient ways.

author: 6E5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 05:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 03, 2014, 06:38:23 pmSorry, I made a terrible example. As you guessed, I was thinking about a situation where you had to wear insulating gloves.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 07:53:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 04, 2014, 10:08:58 amyou seem to be as cynical as I was when i replied:(i was the third comment IIRC)"for the amount of money these kinds of projects attract, we could file legal proceedings against the corporations largely responsible for enslaving third world countries through financial fraud, extortion and blackmail"who deleted it?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 08:18:43 pm
content: You guys are evaluating the invention of a 15yo as if it was yourselves who invented it, tearing it apart technically.It's not that she invented a peltier-power flashlight/torch, it's that she's a young kid thinking about these kinds of things. THAT's the important part. That's what you're missing.Forget the flashlight. Forget that she's female. She's a young person thinking about electronics and wanting to help other people.Over a person's life, there are only going to be a small percentage of really good ideas. The rest are all acceptable or worse. Forget the idea, focus on where it's coming from. Do your best to not crush the enthusiasm out of people before it ever really gets going, for crying out loud.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 09:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 08:18:43 pmYoung people thinking about electronics? Plenty of those on the forums Me, TheBorg, 8086 come to mind.

author: rexxar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 09:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 08:18:43 pmI don't think that's what most of us are talking about. What I'm irritated about is that the media picked this up and ran with "zomg it's gonna change the WURLD!", when there's far better solutions already commercially available.It's great that she invented something, even better that she's proud of it and got recognition for it. I'm happy for her. Even though her project isn't nearly as amazing and groundbreaking as the media makes it out to be, it's absolutely fantastic that she designed this thing start to finish.While female engineers and young engineers in general need to get more exposure and media attention, I'm disgusted at how the media works. As Dave said, there's got to be an angle. It can't just be a good story, or something important or simply good, it has to be sensationalistic. They have to bill every new invention as the best thing since sliced bread. Every political story is the end of the world, and every new phone is an iPhone killer.That's my two cents, anyway.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 09:28:46 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 08:18:43 pmThe main question here is why it's newsworthy, and that's pretty obvious regardless of whether or not you like the answer.

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 09:32:02 pm
content: I agree: it would be nice if more young people would spend more time playing with - and thus understanding - technology. Whether this results in a useable product or not.And then, yes, rather a toy flashlight which is powered by body heat, which in my eyes falls into the same category as potato- or lemon-batteries, both completely neglecting the energy needed to make the necessary ingredients, than "high-level" research, which claims to charge cell-phones from thestrayradiation of WiFi routers:http://www.pratt.duke.edu/news/wireless-device-converts-lost-energy-electric-power.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 09:39:48 pm
content: Quote from: rexxar on March 05, 2014, 09:09:18 pmTake Jeri Ellsworth as the classic example in our industry. As cool as she and her stuff is, does anyone think the big newspapers would have done a story on the C64 joystick for example if she was a regular MIT graduate, or even just male (graduate or no graduate)? It's sad but true, lose just one of those angles and there is no story.

author: Noise Floor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 10:29:14 pm
content: Good for her. Hopefully it has a positive impact.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 10:42:57 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on March 05, 2014, 09:05:18 pmI think that is awesome, too. Youths today have a hell of a lot more resources than I could have ever imagined when I was 15. Consequently they are very, very talented as adults.For a while I wondered if you were really 15, but I see you say things like "what bullshit" and when you called me a "worthless piece of shit" when I posted an eBay link, I thought "yep, 15 sounds about right,""Bullshit" is the call of the moron, btw. You're above it. Don't use that word unless you want to draw the attention of every moron in earshot; they'll think you're one of them.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 10:50:16 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 03, 2014, 07:33:03 amyes, you do sound racist. she is Filipino.and why is it that her parents look to be about 80yrs old?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 10:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 05, 2014, 09:28:46 pmAs a father of four, I think it is excellent. It isn't because of her gender, I promise. It is on the news because every channel (at least the ones around here) end every broadcast with a fluff piece so they don't end the show on a down note. When you have 3-4 broadcasts a day, 7 days a week, usually 3-4 different channels in a market, everything that is even slightly newsworthy eventually gets covered by someone somewhere.This isn't Australia. Every region in the US covering 500k people or more in a 100 mile diameter circle generally has at least 2-3 television stations, each with their own news teams. In Australia there is 7, Nine, and Ten, all of which have the same reporters covering the broadcasts in all parts of the nation. Perth sees the same faces as Sydney.This would not be on the news in Australia, but things are different, here. There are about 2-3 dozen newsagents in the US (I've never seen one here), and literally hundreds of television stations. more things get covered on TV and fewer things get covered in print.

author: os40la
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 10:58:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 05, 2014, 09:39:48 pmDave,Maybe you should dress in drag on a video to see if you can up your views.

author: Noise Floor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 11:01:20 pm
content: Quote from: os40la on March 05, 2014, 10:58:19 pmI thought he already was.I kid. I kid.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2014, 11:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 10:53:58 pmI'll bet you it's a huge part of it.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 02:17:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 05, 2014, 11:57:50 pmWell I guess to be honest I don't know, but I do know that around here, there are a lot more high school boys being lauded for their accomplishments than girls. The gap is far wider than the actual ratio of boys to girls who accomplish things, in my experience.It seems much more likely to me that one of the girl's teachers or parents knew someone at the television station.Even so, she may read all of this one day and wonder why we're being so hard on her. I just want to make it clear that I don't think we should be. We should encourage her, and everyone else, to continue with what they like to do, and that over time they will become so much better that they can't even imagine it. I don't think we should attack the technical merit of her invention, because we all know what's going on inside that thing, and we all know how to make one. That doesn't make her accomplishment any less significant TO HER.I want to encourage children to pursue engineering science tech & math, but it is incredibly hard to do that when we go on for pages about how it's just because she's a girl, or just because she's cute. lots of people are going to read that crap and believe it, and there's a non-zero amount of people who were thinking of going into engineering who will then be avoiding it.I'm not saying that we need to lie or that we need to kiss everyone on the cheek whenever they stick a battery onto an arduino, but do we have to be so cynical? really?I guess I don't get the urge to discount everything. I'll gladly tear apart the constructions of a con artist or a liar or a thief, but a 15yo girl who just wants to help people? Nah.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 02:28:06 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 05, 2014, 10:42:57 pmThat is a skill I learned from my father who is a software engineer. Every time he is working, and something goes belly up when it is tested, he will utter something like "Idiotic piece if shit who doesn't understand a static function. It is company lore that my dad once stood up and told the manager to shut up, though the authenticity of that has notyetbeen verified. NAND I was probably not very happy the day I called you a "worthless piece of shit." sorry

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 02:55:16 am
content: I used to be like that. By profession I am a software engineer, too, though I wouldn't call myself a great one.I've found that if I can keep my emotions in check, I can think a lot more clearly. Maybe it's part of growing up, but I just don't feel it anymore when frustrating things happen. Instead of getting upset, now I just want to fix it and move on. I used to get properly angry when simple things did not work, like a windshield wiper. example: "WHY CAN'T THE CUNT OF A WINDSHIELD WIPER WIPE THE GOD DAMNED WINDSHIELD?! YOU HAVE ONE JOB, YOU PILE OF SHIT!! ONE JOB!! DO IT!! WIPE THE CRAP OUT OF MY FIELD OF VISION YOU FUCKING SNOT!!" etc., for 10 minutes.Now I just get out and fiddle with it a bit until it works, or I go buy a new one. I spend a lot less time buying a new one and installing it than I did scaring the hell out of my wife & kids.Right now, my DS1074Z-S is rebooting about once an hour for no reason. 10 years ago I would have shoved a fence post through it and I would have burned the rest of my electronics kit. Now I am probably going to just call the place where I bought it and ask for support.It's much better the new way.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 03:24:46 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 06, 2014, 02:55:16 amI would think so too. OT, funny that your DS1074Z is doing that. Mine is perfectly fine.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 04:21:49 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 06, 2014, 02:17:26 amWho's being hard on her?

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 05:17:11 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 06, 2014, 02:17:26 amIt gets worse in HVAC. My friend Brittany Benzaia (currently a HVAC engineer) used to do HVAC service and how the customers approached her varied wildly. Many times, the customer was surprised that the company sent a young girl to work on HVAC. A few times, the customer insisted that he wanted "an old guy" to do the work. Something similar happens at the supply store. While it's routine for a HVAC tech to bring a bad compressor (or some other heavy HVAC part) to the front desk and ask for a replacement, when pretty young girl does that, many watch like it has never happened before. On the plus side, she had a rather easy time selling PM service. And she probably inspired many teenage boys to get into HVAC...

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 10:31:55 am
content: Speaking of news stories that tick all the boxes, here's another:http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26260978The Indian sanitary pad revolutionaryGood on him.The thing I liked most about the flashlight story, was that she already has the sense to avoid feature-itis, and is keeping her focus on low cost. For all the rubbishing here, a low cost rugged flashlight with no moving parts that keeps working forever, really would make a big difference in poor parts of the word. Dimness not an issue.

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 10:39:41 am
content: Coming back to the original story.Strangely the video is not available here in Sweden (Censorship, conspiracy?). However, what nobody here has mentioned yet is that Peltier elements and any other thermoelectric generator only deliver power when there is a temperature gradient. I cannot tell exactly how the design of the flashlight is from the text and the still shot I can see. But if there is no efficient cooling then the flashlight will simply stop working once it is in thermal equilibrium with the holder's hand...

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 02:15:21 pm
content: Quote from: uwezi on March 06, 2014, 10:39:41 amIt's a hollow design that acts as a heatsink.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 02:29:29 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 05, 2014, 11:57:50 pmOf course it is. Political correctness is often sexist and racist and we should not give it a pass.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 02:41:26 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 06, 2014, 02:29:29 pmI think you WANT her gender and appearance to be a huge part of it, because if her gender and appearance are major decision factors, you now have an excuse why you're not getting as much attention as you think you deserve. Dave did an end-run around the content producers who only show cute teens and became his own content producer so he can be on screen.There are a hell of a lot more cute teenagers doing neat things than there are cute teenagers doing cool things that I saw on TV. If her appearance or gender played a part, why don't I see more of it? Why don't I see it every day? "Area Hot Teen Female Scores B+ on Math Final, Parents Proud" I've never viewed such a broadcast, nor will I.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 03:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on March 06, 2014, 02:41:26 pmActually I want the opposite.Quote from: Rigby on March 06, 2014, 02:41:26 pmYou already see more that should be, this case for example.Look at the first 10 stories here (filter out the noise) and will see how it's bias for female.https://www.google.com/search?q=teenager+invented&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=WpIYU__VIcjfoAT0rILgDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1296&bih=647As I said, PC is often sexist and racist and we should not give it a pass.

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 03:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on March 06, 2014, 02:15:21 pmAnd exactly thehollow-nessof it makes me wonder. Unless you have an air flow through the axis of the cylinder you will not get any heat exchange from the inside walls to the surroundings. In a hollow cylinder, which is closed off at one side (by the LEDs) the air is stagnant and you cannot rely on convection and certainly not on thermal radiation inside this cavity.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 03:53:43 pm
content: Quote from: uwezi on March 06, 2014, 03:37:29 pmIt's not a sealed design. The LEDs are near the outside and air can circulate through the center of the tube.

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 05:06:44 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on March 06, 2014, 03:53:43 pmthe air "can" circulate - but would it, if you just keep the flashlight in your hand?Whether it is open or not - the LEDs are definitely a bottleneck for the air to pass by.Again, I have not seen a detailed drawing - well according to the sources there is a patent pending - and therefore I can only make estimations. But essentially you would need to keep a temperature gradient of about 10-15 centigrade (outer body temperature to ambient air) over a couple of millimeters thickness.I have a dynamo torch at home which works by squeezing a lever - also single handed operation. I have much more confidence in that design than in this Peltier-torch.But nevertheless -pleasekids/adolescents everywhere in the world: continue to experiment with science and technology! (just don't expect the big media attention you might get if you were starting a band or perform in arealityshow)