What is going to happen to the "HIFI" business in the post Russia era? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 05:23:54 pm
content: What will they all do when Russia stops exporting ECC83s, EL84s, KT88s...I've seen a number of valve amp manufacturers pack up, already.Maybe there is a big stock of these valves, left over from the 1950s and 1960s. I used them in the 1960s as a kid...Of course I know valves are a crap solution to audio quality (it's a gigantic con) but that isn't the question...

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 05:35:40 pm
content: not with that 1950s vacuum inside buthttps://www.jjtubes.eu/power-tubes/single

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 05:50:03 pm
content: I believe there are still Chinese vacuum-tube factories, as well as the Eastern European ones, although a large one (Shuguang) apparently has closed.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 06:54:13 pm
content: I'd say good riddance.I see no practical use for the application of lightbulbs in HiFi equipment.CRT's have also been pushed into obsolescence.I think there is still a use for klystrons but I'm not sure.Microwave tubes are still in widespread use, but as far as I know these do not use a vacuum and I'm not sure if that counts.There are also 100kV (and higher voltage) switches that use gas to extinguish arcs but I'm not sure that counts.And there are also very specialized things such as electron microscopes and electron beam welding, and probably quite a lot of others that I do not know about.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 07:00:58 pm
content: Aren't most of these tube makers now owned by the guitar amp makers? They can probably move production without too much hassle.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 07:28:09 pm
content: Seems the Russian ECC83s just obliterated the Luna-25.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 08:19:31 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on August 20, 2023, 06:54:13 pmTherefore, the rest of us need not use them.After the US Military dumped their spare stocks in the 1990s, I stored enough to tide me through my lifetime.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 08:24:40 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on August 20, 2023, 07:28:09 pmdid launching broke that tube ? tubes are much more reliable against radiation, temperature, moisture, extended storage, ...

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 08:31:11 pm
content: Any good conspiracy theories out there about the recent bad record of lunar landings?There are a few more coming in the next months.https://spectrum.ieee.org/lunar-landing#toggle-gdprMaybe you can't get good 5751s anymore.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 08:35:40 pm
content: Vacuum tubes made in 1920's-1940's are still being sold and bought around, look at Mr.Carlson's or Glasslinger's inventory, boxes and boxes of tubes. Tubes will still be sold long after you will be gone.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 08:38:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on August 20, 2023, 08:35:40 pmProbably.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 10:14:18 pm
content: The cult of audio is apparently a fairly large market. Western Electric has restarted tube production. Only a single type for now but they promise expanding.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 10:21:28 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on August 20, 2023, 06:54:13 pmMagnetrons most certainly do use vacuum to allow high power densities in the cavity (and avoid losses).

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 10:24:45 pm
content: Magnetrons (ubiquitous in microwave ovens) and klystrons (used in accelerators, etc.) definitely use thermionic cathodes and vacuum.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 10:54:11 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on August 20, 2023, 10:21:28 pmThat was an odd thing for Doctorandus_P to say, but maybe he is confused by the TWTs used in space craft. Those are not evacuated because they are not switched on until they are in a vacuum.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 11:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on August 20, 2023, 05:23:54 pmThere have been fuck all tubes coming out of Russia since the war began, they're pretty far from the main suppliers these days. There was a panic buy, then a shortage, now things are reasonably OK again (buying wholesale, buying retail looks like it's still a mess

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 12:01:56 am
content: Quote from: coppice on August 20, 2023, 10:54:11 pmOr magnetron vacuum gauge

author: twospoons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 03:53:01 am
content: The Russian engineers will be busy using all their vacuum tubes to build missiles, now that they're running out of washing machines to cannibalize.

author: CosteC
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 09:35:39 am
content: Embargo on Russia is working only in western TV and for poor Russians. Rich Russians can easily get what they need, more expensive as need to go through middle man. Goods from Russia are also available through middleman. More expensive obviously.Don't worry, prepare wallet. War is good for business.It is not cynicism. It is reality.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 09:42:23 am
content: It's not a "HIFI" but "Audiophile" business. When there won't be any tubes left, people will do just fine.

author: AmnevaR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 09:59:54 am
content: Quote from: CosteC on August 21, 2023, 09:35:39 amFor now they have no problems importing all sorts of stuff from China and other countries whose interests do not coincide with Europe or the United States.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 10:05:07 am
content: Quote from: peter-h on August 20, 2023, 05:23:54 pmIt's OK, you can get tube distortion simulators that'll take your carefully-engineered 0.001% THD amp and mess up the sound to make it match the characteristics of various tube amps. You can even get them asDIY kits.

author: galileo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2023, 06:51:44 pm
content: So you have 180 posts on this forum and you are still that clueless about electronics?Quote from: twospoons on August 21, 2023, 03:53:01 am

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2023, 07:54:28 pm
content: Quote from: galileo on August 25, 2023, 06:51:44 pmLook at your own post count and stop the pissing contest. Not welcome here.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2023, 12:42:01 am
content: Quote from: peter-h on August 20, 2023, 05:23:54 pmRussia will either export through China, or production will move to China, and then I will have a sandwich.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2023, 03:30:10 am
content: I predict that after World War 3 we'll be using vacuum tubes for everything for quite some time.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2023, 03:48:39 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on August 26, 2023, 03:30:10 amAfter?

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2023, 10:42:04 am
content: Quote from: strawberry on August 20, 2023, 08:24:40 pmIndeed. The abuse level the tubes can tolerate is amazing. Back in sixties we had a tube radio set. I remember when it was switched on, the reception usually deteriorated to zero in a couple of hour. But my father knew the trick. There was a grid of ventilation holes drilled in the bottom side of the cabinet. The anode voltage bus was visible in the holes. The trick was to set the cabinet at its side, insert a long thin screw driver in the hole to momentarily short the anode bus to the chassis. A pop sound, a batch of sparks, and the reception is restored. It was quite funny. Don't remember the idea behind that. The set was of Latvian VEF brand, and the tubes were used everywhere. It must be the rectifier diodes were also of tubes. Over time, a thin layer is formed on the cathode surface that prevents the emission so the anode voltage drops. Perhaps the current spike by the screwdriver breaks that layer restoring the emission. Quick and easy.

author: galileo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2023, 08:41:30 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on August 25, 2023, 07:54:28 pmConsidering my post count this is, obviously, not a pissing contest. What should not be welcomedis this kind of blatant war propaganda but I guess it's so normalized, that no one pays any attention any more.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2023, 09:14:17 pm
content: Quote from: galileo on August 26, 2023, 08:41:30 pmWrong word! It's a "special military operation",nota war. But at least you can say it on this forum. Be happy about that.

author: galileo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2023, 06:27:11 pm
content: Western authorities spreading that propaganda consider it a war and you can say that it's a war in Russia, that's anotherwestern propaganda line. SMO has a legal meaning, pray that they do not declare war.Quote from: Benta on August 26, 2023, 09:14:17 pm

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2023, 06:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: galileo on August 27, 2023, 06:27:11 pmAeschylus, long before any of us was born: "In war, truth is the first casualty."

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2023, 08:07:49 pm
content: Go back to tubes discussion or the thread will likely be locked.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 03:00:36 am
content: Quote from: galileo on August 27, 2023, 06:27:11 pmHey pal, watch out for what you read and what you say here. If Comrade Major finds out that you frequent this Western-hosted forum, he may decide to conscript you, and turn you into a self-propelled fertilizer for Ukrainian steppes.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 08:44:00 am
content: Want a war talks? During WW2, the brits started using proximity fuses in the anti-aircraft shells long before the germans. The proximity fuse is a complex RF device and transistors were not yet available. So the tubes were able to survive enormous G associated with the artillery round.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 12:06:26 pm
content: Tubes were routinely used in MIG fighters too. In fact many of the esoteric niche HiFi tubes are NOS Soviet era from cold damp warehouses. The datasheets include impressive vibration and acceleration specs. Construction,quality, and operating life is far better than the modern 'made for consumer' stuff.

author: galileo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 12:36:00 pm
content: Quote from: vad on August 28, 2023, 03:00:36 amA hint: Look at the flag next to my name. The rest is typical propaganda.As for the tube market: Most of the USSR tubes that made it to Serbia were from Ukraine, whole warehouses were plundered.Funny thing is that Serbian military warehouse were untouched, part of it was auctioned the rest destroyed as obsolete.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 03:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 28, 2023, 12:06:26 pmThat's true. And not in MIGs only. Although it's highly unusual for people to invent something. The vast majority (Russians included) simply watching what others are doing and copy, copy, copy, as best as they can. It's interesting question, what's better, tubes or transistors. On the one hand, the tube service life is hundreds of hours while the transistors can last much longer. On the other hand, the definition for betterness can change in times. It's relatively simple to build a tube. It's simple to make tubes in small quantities and simple to recycle them. While the semiconductor technology is more complex so it requires a huge industry to make the product cheap by the economy of scale. That industry not only overconsumes the raw materials and energy but also produces so called e-waste because of the indoctrinated temptation to scrap existing device and buy a "better" one. And that all for no apparent reason. So I'm not sure, to be honest.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 04:42:34 pm
content: It's possible tomake your own semiconductors at home, just as it's possible tomake your own tubes.Which is more difficult is a matter of opinion, but my guess is that if you had to build something with the resulting devices, you'd be better off following Jeri's approach.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 04:51:53 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 28, 2023, 12:06:26 pmI think you are conflating two things there. Have you seen the kind of tubes built for flight use? Most military tubes were used in ground equipment, and could be built like any consumer tube. Flight tubes were usually metal cased, with a ceramic section hermetically sealed in where the leads come out. It a very similar construction to many early military hermetically sealed semiconductor parts, but in a more tubular shape.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 04:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: galileo on August 28, 2023, 12:36:00 pmI am using the mobile website, and it does not display flags. Based on your comments, I assume you are not in Russia. Good for you!

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 05:19:04 pm
content: Back on topic;The reason that tubes have remained alive, even though they have been superseded by semiconductors, is the same reason people love riding steam trains or Trabants are sought after: nostalgia.There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, as long as one acknowledges that the feeling is an emotional one an not a rational one. After all, as much as you love your Trabi, you can’t reasonably argue that it is more reliable than a Toyota.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 05:24:41 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on August 28, 2023, 05:19:04 pmThere are interesting dynamics in this. There is a new tube amps market. There is a restored 1970s Japanese high end semiconductor Hi-Fi market. Although one uses new equipment and one used refurbishes old equipment, they are both nostaligia/antiques type markets. Only one feels the need to claim that what they use is superior to modern technology.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 05:57:45 pm
content: tube amplifiers are not Hi-Fi but just cool and simple stone age tech, like old winemodern equipment is most likely not Hi-Fi either, no matter how shiny it looks

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 06:08:40 pm
content: Goodvacuum-tube amplifiers have reasonable distortion and sound good.They run hot, their transformers are very expensive, and they are heavy.Early solid-state amplifiers were generally bad, but they have progressed since then.Today's market is dominated by "good enough" equipment.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 06:10:35 pm
content: Lossy compression, so necessary for audio streaming and storage, killed hi-fi.Although to my tired, bandwidth-limited, tinnitus ridden old ears, I can’t no longer hear the difference between MP3 and LPCM.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 06:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on August 28, 2023, 04:51:53 pmPossibly the other way round in fact, vibration and shock wise. Tubes like the GU50 (one of my favorites, based on the captured German LS50) were used in Tank and manpack radios where they would experienced very high g shocks. They used thick hard-glass envelopes with cast metal holders which clamped the tops too. Things like the 6C33C were used as series voltage regulators, also in rugged hard glass envelopes. Steps were taken to reduce the mass of internal structuree too, Titanium anodes for instance. The tubes used in an aircraft would have been too numerous for bulky glass-ceramic construction, and would have relied on secure restraint of the envelopes instead. Low mass wire ended tubes were also used for small signal applications. Even the humble mil spec all glass 6n2p-EV was rated for wideband vibrations up to 10G, linear loads / continuous acceleration to 100g, impacts to 500g, temperature down to -60'C and 0-3 atm pressures (same as the much larger 6c33c-b). Something you won't find in consumer tube specs (sorry we're both in the UK, valves). In all applications, the electronics packs would have been shock mounted too and microwave stuff for radar would of course be metal-ceramic.

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 06:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: strawberry on August 20, 2023, 08:24:40 pmA few decades of poor storage, in a damp environment will cause corrosion to the pins, this often leads the pin cracking the glass, air gets in and it's scrap.David

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 06:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 28, 2023, 06:08:40 pmEarly solid-state amps were generally pretty good. Then semiconductors improved. It was possible to make audio amps with 1MHz bandwidth, and gain so high they could use masses of negative feedback to achieve 0.001% THD, and by the late 1970s they mostly sounded awful. There's a reason the vintage people love the old Pioneer receivers. That was a company that actually made amps for music instead of sine waves. Then people started to broadly realise that testing on static tones might not be the best idea when the equipment is supposed to amplify music. They started looking into the dynamics of their amps. How the IMD behaved on transients; how the biasing of the power stages behaved after a peak brought the stage into overload; and so on. Then amps improved again.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 06:56:44 pm
content: "Svetlana is a woman's name derived from the word "svet," which means, in the Russian language, "light." The company was established in 1889 and changed its name to Svetlana in 1913 when it began manufacturing incandescent light bulbs. Light-bulb manufacturing naturally evolved into vacuum tube manufacturing in 1928.""Svetlana was reorganized as a privatized open stock company in 1992".But it's adefense businessin 1995?I have no idea how old State-owned businesses like Svetlana get privatized in a communist system. I could not find Moscow Exchange listings. I don't think oligarchs are in the market for new yachts, so maybe some money is staying in the business.Another I think is EXpo-pulfactory(Reflektor Saratov making Electro-Harmonix and Sovtek).Svetlana Electron Devices, New Sensor, PM America distributionold lawsuitandalternate

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 07:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on August 28, 2023, 06:10:35 pmPretty much so.The consequence is that Hi-Fi has shifted towards "audiophile" stuff for a large part, a very expensive and small niche. I know many people make fun of it, and a lot of it is indeed bullshit, but that's pretty much all that's left in terms of market when it comes to Hi-Fi in general, the huge majority of people now listening to heavily compressed stuff on crap equipment, and are happy with it.As to tube-based amps, they've been a very niche market for several decades now when it comes to Hi-Fi. But they're still very popular for guitar amps and they're not going anywhere anytime soon. The kind of saturation you get from tubes is still very hard to emulate properly, it works very well for guitar and there'll still be people playing on tube amps way after we're all dead IMHO.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 08:14:41 pm
content: Decades of THD being a figure of merit number in audio gear.Yet long ago we conquered THD. It's ppm nowadays yet modern audio can still sound like shit.Loudspeakers are terrible adding many % THD yet we want amplifiers 1000x better spec'd.The wood on a Stradivarius, the chemical treatments - all handcrafted control of the harmonics. But we won't allow them anywhere else lol.I think there is a decent market for vintage components, companies making them like tubes, nixies. Nothing wrong with it.Too bad this thread is headed for the usual circle-jerking debate about tube sound verse solid-state.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 08:39:01 pm
content: Not to start a flame war or a special military operation, but I think lossy codecs have reached a point where 128kb/s is totally inoffensive and a genuine point of diminishing - if any at all - returns.I will take a YouTube stream over the shitty compact cassettes I grew up with every time. Half decent recordings even at this compression level don't sound like crap at all.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 08:45:11 pm
content: Of course cassette decks, even the good ones, always sounded pretty shitty when compared with a half decent turntable.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 09:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 28, 2023, 06:26:15 pmThat's funny, GU50 were also used in first soviet color TV sets for H deflection

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 09:12:36 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 28, 2023, 08:45:11 pmWhen Nakamichi launched its first really high quality cassette deck it demoed it against a Revox open reel machine. Most people preferred the Nakamichi, as they'd carefully implemented noise reduction, so the background noise tended to be a little lower than the Revox. If you added an external Dolby A box to the Revox it brought the results back into line. Since a huge number of recordings were mastered on those Revox machines, or their more robust Studer cousins, its hard to see how an LP would beat this quality.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 09:43:39 pm
content: Yeah, there's an exception that proves every rule. Philips invented the format without any pretentions of it ever being used for a HiFi medium, manufacturer ingenuity got it as far as it did.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 09:47:02 pm
content: Quote from: Njk on August 28, 2023, 09:12:30 pmYes, they did get pushed into TV line output stage duty for a while, but ultimately they were too expensive and a consumer soft glass version (the P50) was manufactured as a replacement...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GU-50

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 09:52:50 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on August 28, 2023, 04:42:34 pmThat boys and girls are just entertaining the public. Contemporary equipment and pre-fabricated wafers. Does not count. It was never manufactured in that way. I do remember because in 80-x I was sort of involved in that business. BTW etching is not the only technology. We had a huge plotter Kartimat III E of Karl Zeiss Jena (that was correctly mentioned in the US DoD technical report (https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA079928.pdf). But we also had Kartimat 4, a bit more advanced model. The chip topology from gerber file was cut by the plotter on big mylar sheet. A photo camera with huge screen was located nearby to copy the topology from the mylar sheet to the photo plate of tiny size. The plate then was used to create the mask, which then was used in the vacuum chamber to deposit the thin film on the sitall wafer. Not a rocket science, but not a kitchen science either. Quite a bulky equpment. And the chips were not for sale for .1 cent per piece. Tubes definitely can be produced in more simple way.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2023, 10:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 28, 2023, 09:47:02 pmYes it looks more civilian

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2023, 12:55:26 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 28, 2023, 08:45:11 pmWhat is the sample rate and resolution of these fabulous machines you speak of.Last I heard 44.1kHz/16-bit was "all that was needed", and commonly less than 15 bits in practice because recording engineers were afraid to clip and stayed well below 0dB or overcompressed it to death.For DECADES we've listened to mediocre digital recordings. Nowadays, in a studio it's 96kHz/24-bit at the very least. We had that back in the 1980's analog tech lol.I'll trade off wow and flutter for resolution lol.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2023, 02:10:02 am
content: Back in 1979 when I had decent ears, a friend had a Crown IC150 preamp, DC300A power amp and RTR/Crown electrostatics. And to me they sounded pretty damned good. He also had some sort of Aiwa 3-head cassette deck and switching the source back and forth from straight through to off the playback head I could not tell the difference. The source material was a digitally mastered vinyl disc traced by a moving coil cartridge. The system was something you could pick holes in today perhaps, but by the standards of back then it was pretty crash hot. So a good cassette setup could be surprisingly good. But you had to pay through the nose for it. Eventually $20 CD players came along and changed the whole situation.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2023, 03:54:34 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on August 28, 2023, 08:14:41 pmYes the weak link are loudspeakers for sure. Now also consider the THD of amplifiers at the output power they'll be really used. Sure a "decent" audio amp can have a THD < 0.001% under 1W of output power but once you get to > 10W territory (which would be the minimum to decently drive good loudspeakers at a modest volume), the THD usually raises dramatically. Now even so, loudspeakers will still exhibit THDs *at least* an order of magnitude higher or two.Studio monitors with decently flat frequency response and low THD can get very expensive, for a reason.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2023, 10:08:28 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on August 28, 2023, 06:10:35 pmThe Loudness Warhas caused more damage to fidelity than lossy compression. In the 1990s I used 256kbit/s MP3s encoded with LAME, and now 128kbit/s AAC is acceptable, but dynamic range compression has only gotten worse since then.Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 29, 2023, 03:54:34 amGood bipolar designs have no rise in distortion as the output level increases, but still almost double distortion for every halving of the load impedance. Douglas Self says this comes about because of beta droop in the output stage, and CFP (complementary feedback or Sziklai pairs) do better with this. Beta droop could be avoided with power MOSFETs, but MOSFETs start out with poorer linearity so overall distortion starts higher.This might be a good argument for class-ab drivers to halve the driver output impedance.QuoteStudios can afford to pay more, and consumers prefer a certain "sound" even extending to regional differences:https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/east-coast-vs-west-coast-sound-in-speakers.914187/

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2023, 01:05:47 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on August 29, 2023, 10:08:28 amThe loudness wars were bad. Now you have new releases of old material autotuned until all the expressive subtlety of capable artists has been squeezed out. Time was when a remix was touted as something special, and a fresh look at the original material. Now they remix stuff like crazy, with all these horrible manipulations of the original, and pass them off like nothing has changed.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2023, 02:07:48 pm
content: When I started my interest in high-fidelity reproduction of recorded sound, serious listeners sought recordings and equipment that resulted in a "sound" close to what could be heard in a live concert that was not amplified.Symphonies, string quartets, non-microphone vocalists, etc.J Gordon Holt reminded his readers to attend live concerts to know what they were trying to replicate.This is different from the sounds I hear from the pickup truck stopped next to me at a traffic light.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 09:15:39 pm
content: Glassware is no good for hi-fi. It's only used in guitar amplifiers because some people like the distortion. Hi-fi requires as little distortion as possible.It's also mechanically fragile, compared to semiconductors. It's only better in terms of resistance to ESD and ionising radiation.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 09:36:21 pm
content: ... and output shorts (ok, they are more sensitive to opens without protection).

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 10:00:33 pm
content: They are not intrinsically sensitive to opens. When you have an output transformer between the tube and the load, that’s when the trouble stars. I’d wager that a solid state amplifier would also be sensitive to open circuits if an output transformer was used.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 10:13:20 pm
content: Malarky, I've run them with no load - the negative feedback loop is to the loudspeaker output so there is no Tesla coil happening.Guitar amps include clamp diodes on the output transformer primary as well to limit voltage.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 07:51:31 am
content: For "high end" hifi afficinaddos, Tubes (valves, ampoules) are still redily available as old stock from USA, ham fleas, and modern CCP Chinese knockoffs.I reccomend vintage US brands like RCA, Tung Sol, etc and European like Mullard, Philips, etc.Avoid any Russian knockoffs.Just search ebay for the desired tube #.We use 2050 Thyratrons and 6SL7 twin triodes.Jon

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 10:57:59 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on August 31, 2023, 10:00:33 pmPer se the output transformer should not make things much worse. An advantage with most solid state amplifiers is that they include protection circuitry, so that they are usually well protected from mistreatment (open or short or even a diode load). With tube circuits the effort for protection was a bit too high and the tubes were considered consumables anyway with sockets for an easy repair.There is no real need for tube amplifiers for audio - more like a need to shut them down to conserve energy. No more cheap Russian gas means higher electricity prices and less incentive to use tubes.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 01:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on September 01, 2023, 10:57:59 amThere is definiely no need for audio valve amplifiers, but I dissagree with banning them to conserve energy. There aren't many of them, so it won't make much difference. Some people like old technology just for the sake of it. The same could be said about steam locomotives, but there are plenty of enthusiasts, who like to keep them running for fun. Yes they do produce pollution, but it's very little in the scheme of things.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 01:49:13 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on September 01, 2023, 01:39:54 pmIf there are plenty of enthusiasts, why are the steam lines always struggling for resources to keep them going? A barely adequate number of enthusiasts to sustain the hobby might be a reasonable description.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 02:28:09 pm
content: Or, perhaps, the parts required to keep steam locomotives running, long out of production, have become expensive?(Just like 6550s?)

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 06:22:52 pm
content: Another answer might involve the different financial investments to play. Even the small parts on a steam locomotive require a crane to move. And while vacuum tube parts are an order or two in magnitude more expensive per pound, there are more than three orders of magnitude difference in the total weight involved.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 06:45:50 pm
content: Before I retired, my personal enthusiasm was large-format film photography, specifically 4x5 and 8x10 inch.My boss at that time insisted that technology had advanced and made my high-resolution images obsolete.His personal enthusiasm was raising horses.Funny how individuals maintain that other people's enthusiasms are useless.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 09:20:29 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 01, 2023, 06:45:50 pmI agree. And with that said, anyone who claims to decide for everyone else what is useful and what is not, is just full of shit.And by their own reasoning, they should see no reason why they themselves would be of any use.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2023, 06:11:35 am
content: I have a great enthusiasm for calling other people stupid and consider it a damn useful use of my time.So do you, apparently, if you have a problem with me