Soldering station - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Gordonisrock
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 02:21:22 pm
content: HiI'm planing to buy a soldering station for everyday use. Which of these 2 soldering stations would you recommend and why?ERSA RSA80 or Weller WD1

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 03:22:43 pm
content: I would go with ERSA because:a) Most ERSA tips have a screwdriver-like shape, that transmits heat more efficiently than conic tipsb) You are in Europe, it is very easy to get ERSA spare parts thereI am a happy ERSA user since 1971, currently owning an i-Con 2

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 04:17:53 pm
content: ERSA, because cartridge-like soldering tips work better.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 05:17:43 pm
content: I am not sure what shipping to Ireland might add, butReichelt is currently discounting the RDS-80.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 05:29:39 pm
content: Neither because both are outdated designs. Also RDS80 is not ESD safe. Totally not worth it even at discounted price. Get Ersa I-CON NANO instead, it's so much better.https://www.amazon.it/Nano-0IC1200-digitale-stazione-saldatura/dp/B002MQLJ46If you don't care about ESD, then there is also cheaper I-CON PICO.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 07:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: ferdieCX on January 25, 2023, 03:22:43 pmWhile I agree with your conclusion, reason #1 is nonsense. Every reputable soldering iron manufacturer has a full array of tip styles, including Ersa and Weller.I completely agree with you about chisel tips being generally superior to conical, though!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 07:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: Gordonisrock on January 25, 2023, 02:21:22 pmNeither of those. The RDS80 is ancient. (It also has an absurdly stiff cord.) No idea why they even still sell it. The i-Con series is newer and better in every way.Modern Weller is, sadly, crap. Don’t buy that either.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 07:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on January 25, 2023, 04:17:53 pmThe RDS80 isn’t a cartridge heater system. On the contrary, it’s an ancient “traditional” style iron.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 07:32:29 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 25, 2023, 05:29:39 pmCompletely agree with everything here.As an i-Con nano owner, I can confirm that it’s a great station. Check prices though: sometimes the i-Con 1 is available for not thaaat much more, and its front-panel power switch, backlit display, and accelerometer-based quick standby are things I wish I had (now that I’ve gotten used to having that at work, where we have i-Con 1 and 2.)

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 01:22:53 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 25, 2023, 07:26:13 pmI agree, every reputable manufacturer offers also chisel tips, JBC also does it.But chisel tips are the default ones that came with ERSA soldering irons and they are also the major part of the ERSA offering, with many different sizes.For other brands, they are usually an option and you have fewer chisel tip sizes to select.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 07:49:39 am
content: Quote from: ferdieCX on January 26, 2023, 01:22:53 amWith all due respect, I think your impression is… inaccurate.1/3 of Ersa’s tips are chisels (looking at the list of tips for the i-Con series).Not that the percentage matters: JBC has a similar number of chisel tips, but they’re a far smaller percentage because JBC makes 3-4 times as many tips in total.Every reputable manufacturer has a wide selection of chisel tips, since they’re one of the most popular types. Many high end soldering stations (like Pace, JBC and Metcal) don’t include any tips at all. So I don’t think fhe default is a significant issue.

author: uli12us
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 12:08:06 pm
content: None of the soldering stations are on the actual technical niveau. Several weeks ago I bought an aifen A9 Station from aliexpress. This station uses JBC Tips, they heat in 6seconds with t245 tips or in 2 seconds with t210 or t115 tips. For the price of the ersa station you can buy an a9 station with half a dozen of tips. The main advance of the JBC tips is, they are short, the 210 and 115 not longer than a normal ballpen. Each movement is much less as with the stations from Weller or ersa, there length are 3 times as the JBC. And because the tips are direct heated the temperature on the display is really the temperature on the tip, not the temperature from the heating element, at least 2cm, 0,8inch away from the tip.Another advantage is, JBC have some 1000 different tips only for the T245 system and many other for the other two.The time for delivery was only 13 days, although the parcel have to wait nearly half of these days inside germany.2022-11-30 15:53, GMT+8 leave sellers warehouse, 2022-12-07 18:53 GMT+1 arrival at customs office, 2022-12-12 09:19 GMT+2, arrival at my home.or a bit more than 180€ you can buy the station with 3 holders and 3 tips for each of them. I don't know the customs law in ireland, in germany we have to pay only VAT up to an amount of 150€, over that we must pay toll as well.https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004028392148.htmlhttps://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003311588074.htmlI've add a pic of my soldering Irons, from above to below, first an ordinary ballpen just for comparison. a jbc115 holder, a210 holder, a 245 holder with tips and below my stoneold Weller TCP. The actual Weller or Ersa soldering irons are not much shorter. The distance of the lines on the paper is 5 mm or 0,2inch.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 02:27:07 pm
content: my Metcal SmartHeat SP-200Or Japanese Hak we use old non digital 726, 736We avoid Chicom tools or instrumentsj

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 03:07:15 pm
content: Quote from: uli12us on January 26, 2023, 12:08:06 pmWhile it's true that JBC can get those heat-up times it's only true for smallest tips in the range. JBC is very hideous in their marketing, many specs/claims are not what you think. ERSA I-CON with i-tool is very close to JBC C245 in performance and heat-up time but regular tips are much cheaper and way more durable. Also (genuine) JBC cheats with temperature display where it appears rock solid while in reality there are large temperature overshoots when tip is removed from solder joints or during heat-up. Actual power of cartridges often is much lower than you may think, smaller cartridges have less powerful heaters.QuoteTotal BS, on I-CON tip to grip distance is around 48-50mm for most tips and i-Tool is very small.QuoteKnockoff cartridges are garbage and much worse than I-CON but genuine cartridges are very expensive.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 07:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: uli12us on January 26, 2023, 12:08:06 pmFYI, in English, “actual” means “tatsächlich”, not “aktuell”. (It’s a classic “false friend”.) For “aktuell” you need to say “current”.But I think what you mean is that the two stations in the original post are not state of the art. (=Die zwei Lötstationen im ersten Beitrag sind nicht auf dem Stand der Technik.)Quote from: uli12us on January 26, 2023, 12:08:06 pmNo, it’s about 350 tips across all the series. (Still an amazing selection, but nowhere near 1000.) It’s a pity that, with JBC‘s very high tip prices (and lower durability), actually taking advantage of that selection would be extremely expensive! (=Leider ist es, dank den hohen Preisen der Spitzen, in der Tat sehr teuer, von dieser Auswahl zu profitieren!)As for tip-to-grip distance: Ersa I-Con has a shorter distance than JBC! I think only the Pace TD-200 handpiece has a shorter distance. (At least among non-miniature irons.)Quote from: wraper on January 26, 2023, 03:07:15 pmHaving used both JBC and Ersa extensively, I concur with all of this.Quote from: wraper on January 26, 2023, 03:07:15 pmI think they were comparing the JBC to the two ancient stations listed in the original post.

author: uli12us
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 08:26:59 pm
content: The A9 with 1 tip is around 110€, the RCD80 normally 180€, the nano 220€. For the price of the ersa station you can buy the a9 station and 3-5 original JBC-tips or many more of the china clones. But they offer most only 3 types standard and few sellers up to some 30 types. I have tested the K typ (JBC245-939) from 3 different cloners. The tips have the same performance, like the original. One type heat a little bit faster than the original, but the time from 6,5 to 6 seconds doesn't make a real difference. That are really stopped times, not from the ads. And the 2 seconds for the 210 and 115 tips are also real. Measured with an mechanical stopwatch.Believe it or not, JBC offers some 1000 tips of the 245 range. The other much less. But some tips are nearly identical to others with a completely different number. Maybe one is for leaded and the other for unleaded tin. Because the tips are not in a noticable order, I think, each tip, that one customer want, get the next number. If you need a special tip, they make it for you.The price of the tips, ok, I don't know the prices and sellers in Ireland. Here in germany the Ersa prices are 1/2 to 2/3 of the Price of an original JBC tip from a regular seller.And the changing ot the JBC tips is much faster and without the danger of burning oneself.The length from a 210 or 115 tip from the top of the finger to the top of the tip is 30 to 35mm, dependent from the sort of tip. That's shorter than the 48-50mm from Ersa.Without doubt, ersa make good soldering irons, but I think the prices are to high, maybe the tips last longer as JBC, Weller, but I don't have changed the tip in my W-TCP more than 1 time, and that, because I need a smaller one, than the first, that came with the iron. That part works until now, but the handle is nearly broken and the time of nearly a minute to heat up isn't reasonable compared with todays tools.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 09:44:50 pm
content: Quote from: uli12us on January 30, 2023, 08:26:59 pmThat's some really worthless test. You should check how they actually transfer heat to heavy solder joints, not how fast temperature rises on the display of soldering station.

author: analityk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 12:02:39 am
content: JBC 245 is not rock durable? Oh gosh. It have to be Chinese clone of JBC tip.I have working 2 year in service site on one tip form jbc. I is worth any penny spent on it.I expect comparable durability and robust from any best solder station manufacturers.But not from Wheller. Do not buy them.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 07:56:29 am
content: Quote from: uli12us on January 30, 2023, 08:26:59 pmNo they do not.Why do you keep repeating this fantasy number?While JBC does make an impressive 200 C245 tips (including specialty non-soldering tips), it’s nowhere near 1000. I just counted, so I’m not making it up.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:00:36 am
content: Also while they make a lot of specialty cartridges, generally you don't need more that 5-10 different tips and none of specialty tips among them. All of those specialty tips may be useful if some particular job is donea lotin production environment, however in general they are not worth the time to find them in a drawer if you need to do some oddball job where such tip works better. Want a cartridge for particular type of SMT part removal? Get a hot air station instead.EDIT: fixed typo

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 11:13:05 am
content: We use Hakko vintage 726, 736 Made in Japanergonomic design, ESD safe, analog contrôlesJust two..4 tips are all we need.Metcal SmartHeat SP-200 is for large work or desolderCost on eBay very reasonableJon

author: uli12us
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 09:11:51 am
content: Tooki, every JBC tip have a number. beginning at 1. Thats right, they offer several tips, that no one needs for everyday work, but all of these tips you can order from them. For example 908 is a type with 4,8mm or 939 is the from the chines cloners K named 6mm, 45° Knifetype.If you need a tip for a special purpose, than they can make it for you. I think thats the reason for the chaotic order of the tips. Normally you use only a handful tips, a small, middle, if you need the heat large chisel, a small and a large K-type and if you often solder SMD parts a small conical tip. Long ago I found a list with all tips, but I don't know thename of the site until now.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 12:58:46 am
content: Neither!As for stations I'm actually a like many of Wellers offerings contrary to some negative comments here. In the end the iron needs to fit your intended usage, which you haven't spoken on. The WE1010NA is a nice entry level unit, if you want to go low cost you will need to consider imports from China or Wellers cheaper solutions.If you want a high end work station you actually have many options. However If I assume that you are just getting started I'd suggest thinking long and hard about your needs. For example butane or battery powered soldering irons are far more useful away from a bench. Work on Tube circuits, antennas and power electronics can sometimes benefit from a heavy duty soldering gun. Beyond that spending lots of money on a soldering station f you are just getting started might not be a good idea.

author: Kujo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 09:46:25 am
content: I have used all sort of irons over the years. Tip life has always been a killer.About 5 years ago a bought a JBC CD-2EO1. For me it's been the best iron I have ever had. The fast heat up and more importantly the sleep mode means I have yet to burn through a tip. The quick-change mechanism for the tips even when the tip is hot can be helpful for that time where you don't pick the right tip first up.Not cheap though and some issues with firmware updates over time but when it comes to the actual soldering job I can't fault it.Noting that this perhaps doesn't have much to do with the original question but I note the thread did get into the JBC. So sorry if too OT.Kujo

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 10:00:26 am
content: Quote from: uli12us on February 02, 2023, 09:11:51 amGo to the JBC website. Go look at what C245 they offer now. Count them. You’ll find it’s about 200.What they offered in the past doesn’t count because you can’t get the discontinued ones now. Custom tips don’t count either, since all the major manufacturers will do that, too.Is your entire logic that because the tips are numbered C245xxx, that there must be 1000 tips available?Are you aware that model numbers (in general, not just with JBC) aren’t always just counted up from 1? The Keysight 34470A multimeter’s model number does not mean Keysight had 34469 models of multimeters before that…In some cases, model numbers or part numbers are sequential, but not every item is released, leaving gaps. For example, in USA there’s a household cleaner (similar to Cilit Bang in Europe) called “Formula 409”, which supposedly was the 409th formula they developed. Same with WD-40 being the 40th water-displacement oil formula.But none of that is relevant. Your claim is that JBC sells 1000 C245 series tips, and that is plainly incorrect, and easily proven to be incorrect.