UK pushing ahead with mandatory digital ID - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 08:29:21 am
content: Now they want to use "illegal workers" as the carrot."New digital ID will be mandatory for workers in the UK"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn832y43ql5oMore spyware on your phone, using the same providers they used for the 'p0rn ban' who leak like sieves.I really need to apply for my Irish passport.Combine the above with the governments recently released AI plan and it's pretty terrifying.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 08:41:18 am
content: Here is a revolutionary idea. How about a piece of plastic, that has your name and photo on it?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 08:50:37 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on September 26, 2025, 08:41:18 amDon't be silly.They could be lost, stolen, damaged, or the associated central database compromised by malefactors. That could never evereverhappen with a smartphone system.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 09:37:35 am
content: Smartphones have some advantages, they have UI preventing some types of Man in the Middle attacks and by having everyone use their own phone you don't turn terminals into single points of failure.That said, I'd still use ID chips with NFC. Have very high security terminals at least for government offices/officials, so older people don't get forced into smartphones. For employer checks, using the citizens own phone as intermediary is probably the best compromise. Spreading that many secure terminals around is not realistic, so then it's best for each side of the interaction to have their own UI on their own device.PS. it's not like the old way was great, having to give a photocopy of your ID to your employer was a huge insecure kludge.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 09:52:45 am
content: They are going to say something like:"It will save 3 Billion Pounds, within the next 5 years, be up and running in 6 months, and cost no more than 2 Billion Pounds to implement, and make peoples lives easier".It will then end up saving (Minus) -6 Billion Pounds (i.e. costing more than before), it will be PARTLY up and running in 5 years time, and make peoples lives HARDER, much much HARDER.Its cost will skyrocket in stages, to something like 25 Billion Pounds, for a half-baked, incomplete, mess of a system.In other words. UK governments, can't be trusted with massive IT projects.Typically.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 10:41:58 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 26, 2025, 09:52:45 amI don't think any government can really be trusted with any type of projects.If it's a construction project, it runs too long, and costs to much.If it's a IT project, it runs too long, and costs to much.If it's healthcare, it runs too slow, and costs to much.If you privatize it, company turns it into a monopoly, that's the worst of both words.The solution is accountability for the government.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 10:47:37 am
content: Article starts with a shameless lie.QuoteWhat a fucking nonsense. They house illegal migrants in hotels, provide free money and premium food, and spying on your citizens is somehow supposed to fix the problem. FWIW those who actually work are the best ones they've got. If anything, it will help to tackle those who complain.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 10:50:13 am
content: Quote from: Marco on September 26, 2025, 09:37:35 amCorrect, of course.Amateurs worry about how things work, professionals worry about how things fail.Therewillbe feature creep with all sorts of non-governmental institutions demanding a digital ID before you can use their services. Probable examples: banks, houses, work, medical.Photocopies are simple, require "minimal" equipment to use and "maximal" effort to misuse.Digital ID will require complex systems (web, comms, terminals); what happens when they are "down", or broken, or stolen, or left at home?Millions of people don't have smartphones. What happens to them?Digital ID will require complex centralised DBs, whichwillbe compromised because the information has a high value. If you don't believe that, I have a bridge to sell youHow do I repudiate transactions made fraudulently with my digital ID? Context: "the computer says so and computers/AL/LLMs don't make mistakes and don't hallucinate", especially the example of Regina v Munden (policeman jailed because the bank obfuscated and lied about phantom ATM withdrawals).How do I revoke digital ID credentials when they are stolen/compromised? (Easy with credit cards etc, difficult with biometric information, "you'll have to use your third iris pattern")Etc etc etc.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 10:52:32 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on September 26, 2025, 10:41:58 amPlease explain what that means in practice. Don't forget to cover privatised services operated by the lowest bidder, which has ensured technical/corporate lock-in

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:08:19 am
content: Quote from: Marco on September 26, 2025, 09:37:35 amDigital IDs can have many advantages, including better privacy preservation for the individual.Current Australian roll out of digital drivers licenses (most peoples primary ID) allows the individual to produce a one time code that lets the other party verify:the holders name and date of birthor additionally the holders addressor additionally the holders drivers license detailsA good employer will sight the passport and check the validity themselves using its document number…. a bad employer will take an image of it and email it in the clear to 3rd parties (yes there is that little care for privacy or security). If instead they just ran the one time code of a digital ID and received back a receipt “this person has working rights until…” then it is much better for all involved.Quote from: tggzzz on September 26, 2025, 10:50:13 amDisagree, especially when “photocopy” these days is a full color digital image stored on (replicated) databases within private companies. Keys to peoples identities need to be secured with modern solutions, not the hope commercial companies will do the right thing…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Optus_data_breachHaving someones passport number and drivers licence number together with full name and date of birth, you are able to freely masquerade as them online and the businesses/government services will legally attribute everything to that person. The proof is then inverted and the person with the stolen identity has to demonstrate it wasnt them.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:26:59 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 26, 2025, 10:50:13 amThe employer will also have a taxnumber, banking information, etc. It will throw it all into a convenient database on a network connected to the internet and with terrible security.With PKI the employer only has your signed confirmation of your identity, not all the information needed to fake your identity.The only way to have a physical system as secure as NFC&PKI is to give people a stack of physical one time use tokens. Like some banks used to do for online banking.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:32:30 am
content: Quote from: Someone on September 26, 2025, 11:08:19 amFair point.Masquerading is already a problem, and the problem does fall on the innocent party.Unclear whether a digital IDandthe way it is used/abused will be better/worse.There are too many examples of automated systems that repeatedly screw innocent people, and with consequences cannot be (easily) corrected.Startwith ANPR and cloned cars

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:37:25 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 26, 2025, 10:50:13 amAlready required for banking, crypto, porn and recently BUPA started asking me (with skip option for now) to "Verify my idenity".The precedent has been set. Businesses can now ask for your passport, driving license and a biometric scan to use their services.Hackers can then use that info to open bank accounts in your name, or just change the pin code on your current one.What surprises me is the number of completely gullible people who just immediately signed up and handed over all scans and snaps of official documents on their mobiles.I am starting to notice the amount of the Internet that works for me diminishing. The "Free world" are locking the UK out. "Not available in your region" is becoming more common. Might be time for a LinNode in the US.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:49:20 am
content: Biometrics.If someone steals my car, I buy a new one. If someone steals my google account, Google delete it and I make a new one.If someone steals my fingerprint .... em.... I suppose I could file or acid burn it off and get a graft?

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:58:12 am
content: state actor attacks will most likely be unavoidablehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_SingHealth_data_breachQuotehttps://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/20/asia/singapore-hack-intlQuoteand then they need to state that the attacker are big timers to save some "face value"

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 12:09:05 pm
content: The police over here had a huge data breach recently.The emailed an Excel sheet to a journalist to service a "Freedom of information request" and left the hidden lookup sheet in it. That sheet contained the employee HR details, including salaries.Court ordered them to pay compo. PSNI say, "We can't afford to pay the compo, sorry, no funds."Spending too much money arresting grannies for tweets.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 12:23:27 pm
content: It's about time, its been on the cards for years, but like most large projects - its the execution that'll matter. Currently identity fraud isn't particularly difficult, and all the arguments against this seem to be the same ones people had about smart cards - and often those that give away their personal information, get scammed and then complain.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 12:31:17 pm
content: It doesn't seem all that hard, does it? I imagine it being a bit like the driving licence, except everyone gets one. Or the way we make payments using our phone: I don't understand how that works, but there is protection there to make sure the right bank account is debited.Of course, driving licences and phone payments can be hacked. Any system can be hacked. But when it happens presently, it isn't the end of the world - we report it, things get fixed behind the scenes, we move on. I remember when plastic card driving licences were introduced: people predicted all the things we are discussing now, but in reality we managed. Digital ID cards aren't the same as driving licences, obviously, but I'm certain we can find solutions to any problems that arise.So long as the ID card system has an appropriate system for correcting errors and hacks - which it could and should do - it seems perfectly doable to me. I would also point out that we wouldn't be the first country down this path - we can learn from the mistakes of others.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 12:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 26, 2025, 10:47:37 amExactly. But that's alright, because people are still not getting it.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 02:13:12 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 26, 2025, 10:47:37 amWhat exactly as "premium food" ?

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 03:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on September 26, 2025, 02:13:12 pmHigher quality than the Chicken Dippers and Fish fingers with beans the average single mom is feeding the kids with in the UK.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 03:43:43 pm
content: wot a cunning way to link phones to there owner and force personnel tracking devices on every legal citizen

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 03:49:57 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on September 26, 2025, 12:23:27 pmIt is notable that credit card companies (and similar)don'tbother about authorisingindividualsby checking "identity" (except where compelled by legislation, of course)What credit card companies do bother about is authorisingtransactionsto see whether they are unacceptably risky.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 03:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 26, 2025, 10:47:37 amPlease stop blowing racist dog whistles.Yes, "justifications" for digital ID are mostly nonsense, but your dog whistles detract from reasoned discussion.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 04:16:08 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 26, 2025, 10:47:37 amCareful what you write here. There are a bunch of self entitled hateful wokies here, that like to "collect evidence". The UK will totally jail you today if you wrote something that the current dictators in the UK don't like, and you travel there. It doesn't even matter anymore that you are not British, or don't even live there.