EEVblog 1570 -  Tesla DIESEL Electric Train FAIL at Belin Gigafactory - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2023, 09:43:55 pm
content: Tesla unveiled to much fanfare, a DIESEL electric train to carry workers to and from their Berlin Gigafactory. LOL!Dave runs the numbers on whether or not they could have used a Battery Electric Train (BEMU) instead of diesel electric. And could they have powered it from the solar panels on the train station roof?Links:https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1699034774701293812https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_Berlin-BrandenburgMSN LINK REMOVED BY YOUTUBE AS A SCAM! LOLhttps://insideevs.com/news/682009/tesla-gigafactory-berlin-v4-supercharger-solar-roof/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Talenthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Talent_2https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/bombardier-talent-3-battery-train/https://www.railwaygazette.com/business/bombardier-and-leclanche-sign-battery-traction-mou/54744.articlehttps://www.railway-technology.com/features/train-engine-innovations/?cf-viewhttps://www.railvolution.net/news/talent-3-bemu-in-passenger-servicehttps://www.railexpress.com.au/bombardier-filling-the-gap/https://www.vde.com/resource/blob/2068324/a35ebed9833dae59d8cb1451368203bd/vde-study-battery-systems-data.pdfhttps://www.google.com.au/maps/@52.393417,13.7959197,892m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttuhttps://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEB_VT_73Byron Bay Solar train:https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2023, 07:46:36 pm
content: But, but, but… Elon told us self-driving electric cars are the future of high-capacity point-to-point transport! Are we being lied to?Uses cars: ✗Electric: ✗Self-driving: ✗Colorful LEDs along the entire track: ✗BTW, you miss ‘0’ at the end of the NL Wikipedia link; should behttps://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEB_VT_730

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2023, 07:49:56 pm
content: Where is an Hyperloop train when we need one? /sarcasm filter on.The train set in the last video appears to be a refurbished S-Bahn.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 10:09:54 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on October 05, 2023, 07:49:56 pmThe "red rattlers" were made here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_Standard_suburban_carriage_stock

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 10:36:56 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on October 05, 2023, 07:49:56 pmHyperloop is not suited for short distance travel. Also this is temporary solution which will be replaced after a few years and is not operated by Tesla. Just an extension of existing train network.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 12:27:07 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 10, 2023, 10:36:56 amIt's not suited for anything. It's just hype.QuoteTesla own the track. And do you have a reference that it's going to replaced after a few years? And by what?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 12:52:22 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 10, 2023, 12:27:07 pmWhether it's hype or not, as a concept it's for long distance travel. On short distances it wouldn't be able to accelerate to speeds where air drag reduction would matter.QuoteTesla owns the track, most of which is previously existing track they bought. But they do not operate the trains.https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/tesla-buys-german-railway-line-plans-passenger-trains-2/Quote

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 09:27:49 pm
content: Speaking of Hyperloop: did Musk explain, how are switches going to work in his vacuum tube? They are critical to sustainability of railway systems, allowing many lines to share a single track. Is Musk going to build a new, separate track for each connection?Solutions found in capsule pipelines do not seem like the answer, given the fragility of the contents (humans) and speeds involved.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 09:59:39 pm
content: Even though I have some things to say, it's better to leave Hyperloop alone to not derail the topic, otherwise this threat may turn into yet another shitposting contest.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 10:34:20 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 10, 2023, 12:52:22 pmCorrect. I never said they operated the trains. But surely they would have had some say in what type of train operates on it. If they wanted a battery train they could have got one, or at least arranged for the order of one with the operator or however that works. If they had to run diesel for now because of avialability, so be it, that's fine.But what you don't do it have a huge flashy public opening of a diesel train without any mention at all of any eventual transistion to a battery train. Huge PR failure.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 11:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 10, 2023, 10:34:20 pmThere is no readily available battery train they can put into actual service here and now. But building overhead lines for what appears to be a stop-gap solution likely is not only not viable financially and environmentally but also likely involves a bunch of permits, environmental assessment, dodgy local "environmental" groups and other bureaucratic time wasting junk. They just recently had gone through hell with that when building the factory. Not to say it's up to question if overhead lines exist all over the length of public railway that train arrives from. If negative, there is nothing for Tesla to extend on their property.QuoteBut it informed potential employees about possibility to work at factory without too much commute hassle. Also as far as I'm aware there was no huge event about that. This is literally the only thing I could find about Tesla actually promoting ithttps://twitter.com/teslaeurope/status/1698637458563387808Nothing on their YouTube channel. I don't consider running the first train at 5AM an hiring a DJ a "huge flashy public opening ".More like media making a big deal from anything insignificant they could find about Elon/Tesla.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 12:34:33 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 10, 2023, 11:05:02 pmNot true. They were running on the network in Jan 2022, it's just a matter of availability.https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2022/1/alstom-and-deutsche-bahn-test-first-battery-train-passenger-operationhttps://www.urban-transport-magazine.com/en/deutsche-bahn-and-alstom-with-positive-feedback-for-the-first-battery-train/QuoteAn official tweet of a highly produced video from Tesla Europe about the grand opening doesn't warrant media coverage? Of course it does.https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/technology/teslas-giga-berlin-train-shuttle-opens-runs-on-diesel/ar-AA1geV9shttps://insideevs.com/news/685080/tesla-giga-berlin-train-shuttle-opens-runs-on-diesel/https://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-diesel-powered-giga-train-will-take-you-to-tesla-s-berlin-gigafactory-220569.htmlhttps://www.autospies.com/news/index.aspx?submissionid=118017

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 01:15:31 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 11, 2023, 12:34:33 amIt is a test model so not ready for ordering. And very likely this train is prohibitively expensive let alone the bugs they need to iron out.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 01:34:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 11, 2023, 12:34:33 amOnly test trains existing literally means they are not available right now. Should Tesla hinder their operations and wait for those trains to be actually released just to gain a bit of public optics? Not to say waiting for things to happen is contrary to what Elon/Tesla does. They would rather half-ass it now and do properly later.QuoteHighly produced? It's as cheap as it gets. 30 seconds of video with some pretty basic real life shooting and relatively minor editing. One camera put behind front glass in the train, one stationary camera and one gimbal camera on the station and a bit of Drone shooting. It's like a less than half days work of some mediocre youtuber who shoots videos in a field and could be done alone. It's highly edited only compared with your talking head in front of a camera, nothing wrong with either approach.As of those news articles... media manages to spew out 1000 word articles from some stupid 5 word tweet Elon casually shitposts. The fact is Tesla just introduced a train for their workers, put a minor announcement on their local EU twitter account and media blew it out of proportion all over the world. Does not mean Tesla shall fear announcing anything without extreme vetting in fear of bad PR as many companies do these days.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 01:40:47 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 11, 2023, 01:17:18 amOf course not, and I said that.QuoteThey "blew it out of proportion" because as I said, it's hillariously ironic.Of coursethe media were going to run with it.A smart PR department at Tesla should have easily seen this coming and prepped a statement along the lines of "We had to go with a diesel train because we need the capability now, and battery trains are a long lead time, and we are working toward a battery solution" blah blah.Look, I get your point about Elon derangement syndrome, I've pointed it out many times myself (almost weekly on Twitter it seems), but this wasbeggingfor it.Just yesterday and today on Twitter I was taking Thunderf00t and Barnaclues to task on petty stuff about Elon.As for me doing my video, like I said in the video,I like trains, and I was curious to know if my gut tweet that day about the solar capacity was correct or not. And I've done a video on a battery train and countless solar video, so it's right up my interest alley. It's fine if you don't like that, give a thumbs down and move on.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 03:58:40 am
content: If I was the one choosing the diesel electric train I would have got a class 37. It puts hairs on your chest just listening to it and that is just the women.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 09:27:11 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 11, 2023, 01:34:56 amErm - no.They are available and already running on regular service now.My "local" railroad line (i.e. the one I could see from my house in about 50m distance) is being partly electrified for a couple of months now, still not quite finished though. Obviously, the muddy underground (the reason the rails have been built on dams 150 years ago) is not that great to have electrical posts erected. So all this will take another 1-2 months.*However* the trains are on order, but not yet delieverd. So as soon as the rails are going into service again, the former Diesel-electric trains will be running again, to be replaced as soon as possible by fully electric (battery) trains.https://akkuzug.nah.sh/(target: 55 trains on 11 regional tracks until mid next year)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 09:37:03 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on October 25, 2023, 09:27:11 amA few test trains running regular service have nothing to do with actual availability for purchase and delivery right now for currently operating service. Is this some word interpretation game or what?

author: Poe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 05:58:15 pm
content: There is an electric train loop (I think I was in France) with kinetic energy storage systems at each stop that provide the breaking/acceleration. Sounds like jet spooling up/down.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 06:09:00 pm
content: Quote from: Poe on November 17, 2023, 05:58:15 pmI've read about one of those in Switzerland. If you use electric trains you can brake by generating and pumping the energy to the other trains in the network, without storage. It doesn't gain a lot, because commuter lines usually rise into stations, and fall leaving them, to convert quite a bit of the kinetic energy to potential energy, and vice versa.