An ESR/LCR meter, help me choose please - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 07:53:10 pm
content: Hello everybody.I really want to buy an ESR meter, In these years I found many dodgy capacitors in repairs and just worked my way with what I had (a function generator+scope, a cheap 20$ transistor tester gizmo and commnon sense).I was looking around and i saw the MESR-100 for a good price, it only measures esr but I think would be good for me, it tests at 100kHz and claims to be able to do in-circuit testing (but I know it's not a great method)I was almost buying the MESR-100 when I saw this onehttps://www.ebay.it/itm/Auto-LCR-Meter-Digital-Bridge-Resistance-Capacitance-Inductance-ESR-Meter-0-3/183286318100?hash=item2aacb74414:g:7EkAAOSwTE1bLGDwThis appears to be a full blown LCR meter, it has kelvin leads included too.. The testing frequency for ESR is much lower (<10kHz) but it packs more functions.Do you guys think it's a better deal or should I stick with the MESR-100? If there's reason I may up my budget and buy a DE-5000 LCR meter, which I think is better than both, should I?

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 08:18:29 pm
content: Wait for about two pages of responses.... and the winner will be the DE-5000.In the meantime to get a preview of how the discussion will go there is this to review:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-ee-de-5000-alternative/Edit: found another link that might be of interest.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-ee-de-5000-vs-mesr-100-accuracy/25/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 08:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on September 09, 2020, 08:18:29 pmYes well they don't suit everyone especially as we do more and more SMD.My vote is to dig deeper into the budget and get a good set of SMD tweezers.Tips will stretch to 25mm which is far enough for the vast majority of components and when it isn't solder some leads onto them.ymmv

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 10:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 09, 2020, 08:30:05 pmRoger that, kinda depends on if OP will be doing SMD; eventually might want one of each

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 11:17:14 pm
content: If you are going to measure components, it would be wise to decide what range of components and what measurement method is best for your needs.Some will say a bridge is best. Some units use other methods, which can promote bad judgment when it comes to deciding if a part is good.If you are manufacturing parts, you need to know if they are intolerance. If you are troubleshooting equipment, it depends on the nature of that equipment.For instance, for capacitors, there is leakage resistance, capacitance, dissipation factor, ESR, ESL, self resonant frequency, temperature coefficient, stabilty with dc bias and/or excitation voltage, just to mention a few often important parameters.If your needs are more casual, then it probably doesn't matter how you measure the parts. In my case, I have several instruments for measuring components, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. I have several bridges, which I usually prefer. When it comes to high frequency, I prefer the nanoVNA. For electrolytic capacitors, I have a bridge and a cute Chinese gadget for the capacitance and ESR and another bridge for leakage. For tiny high frequency capacitors I have an RX meter.These are just for measuring capacitors. For other kinds of components, the options are different.So the simple answer is that there is no simple answer. However, of all the devices, I would choose last any of the hand held gadgets, as I don't know what method they use to measure.

author: indman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 08:39:31 am
content: Quote from: ceoxrad on September 09, 2020, 07:53:10 pmXJW01 is definitely much better than the MESR-100! There is a topic for this meterhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/xjw01-auto-lcr-meter-review-($120-bench-top-lcr-meter)/75/The XJW01 fully justifies its price and allows for in-circuit measurements, of course, taking into account all the nuances of such connections.I have DE-5000 and XJW01. Both devices are worthy of their value and complement each other! In some cases, the XJW01 proves to be more convenient and accurate than the DE-5000, especially in the milliohm range. Also very convenient is the 4-line display, which can simultaneously show very important measurement parameters.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 12:26:07 pm
content: Almost all ESR and LCR meters on the market have either virtually no or poor input protection. For in circuit testing I'd go for the EVB ESR meter, these are 100kHz and can handle mistakes up to about 50V if you get the SB model it should have protection diodes and handle mistakes up to several hundred volts (charged caps not mains voltage).Due to ESR being somewhat of a ball park measurement the display is simple and easy to read on purpose, as well as having the handy chart on the front. This is a Bob Parker design which has be used by techs for decades. The circuit is published so easy to repair and even if you fried the firmware you can get replacements.I've got a couple of the locally made versions. I'd also recommend getting a DE5000 as well but I find it way more convenient and easier to use a dedicated ESR meter just for incircuit testing.I've also read that the MESR100 has problems with lead length, you may want to check this if you intend using tweezers later. The Bob Parker designs can be calibrated if needed plus easily zero out lead resistance.https://evbesrmeter.pt/index.htm

author: pizzigri
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 01:16:36 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 09, 2020, 08:30:05 pmChoosing the configuration wisely, it is possible to purchase the XWJ01 with Kelvin tweezers as well as the standard Kelvin clips, basically at the same price on fleabay... paid 62 Euro including delivery, for the meter, tweezers, clips, wallwart and battery pack.As for input protection, the package indeed includes a set of 10 smd replacement diodes ... as it is expected you will blow them out!

author: indman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 01:32:50 pm
content: Quote from: pizzigri on September 10, 2020, 01:16:36 pmThe same set can be bought on Aliexpress for $61https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001159587275.html?algo_pvid=853cd8ed-4fb3-4522-be49-03cfdb191190&algo_expid=853cd8ed-4fb3-4522-be49-03cfdb191190-22&btsid=0b0a119a15997444996242951e7619&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 03:01:11 pm
content: If seriously looking at the XWJ01 it's a bit Chinesium compared to the DE5000. Unless you are really budget conscious I think the DE5000 is a better tool with 1kHz,10kHz,100kHz,100Hz & 120Hz frequency testing and data interface. The adapters on the DE5000 are also easier to swap over as it uses an edge/blade and banana socket type setup. It's more expensive but a more complete tool.One advantage with also having plain banana/probe sockets is you can just use simple multimeter probes and dual banana plugs when you don't need precision for sanity tests.I like theseInstek type Kelvin clipswhich I've had for a while now. Probably the biggest weakness of the DE5000 is no out of the box Kelvin clips but easy to adapt any type of test leads to it.

author: indman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 03:25:45 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on September 10, 2020, 03:01:11 pmHowever, this does not prevent the XWJ01 from being a measuring device and not a toy like the MESR-100!A full 4-wire connection and BNC connectors are sometimes preferred over bananas.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 03:42:17 pm
content: A post from a previous thread - has some info on the history of the development of ESR and LCR meters:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/xjw01-auto-lcr-meter-review-($120-bench-top-lcr-meter)/msg1612357/#msg1612357Another post on ESR vs LCR:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/esr-and-lcr-meters-just-get-both/

author: rauldm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 05:06:42 pm
content: Hi, I have the DE 5000, MESR 100 and ESR70.DE 5000 is not for in circuit use, is not has input protection and probably can damage circuits for test voltage.MESR is for in circuit use but, only has diode input protection for charge capacitors.ESR70 is for in circuit, it comes with autodischarge function limited to 50 V.ESR is very good parameter, but disipation factor is more efective when you want know if electrolitic capacitor is good or bad.The most cases with ESR parameter is enough for determine if capacitor is bad.Now, I recomended for capacitors between 2200 or less the MESR because the values in this meter is not consistent, for power applications is better option measure the capacitor with ESR70 becasue ESR values are closet to DE5000, for audio or low capacitance and low voltage applications MESR 100 works excellent.Even MESR can measure to miliohms range,but the values are not coherent like ESR70 for example.MESR can says that a 4700 uF to 63 V is good, when you testing with ESR70 and DE 5000 can see the capacitor is not precisely good. For 1 to more ohms range the MESR works very good, but more low range the results is not consistents.Regards, I hope help you.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 05:22:47 pm
content: The De 5000 can do some circuits measurements, however it will depend of the circuit in witch you'll be probing ...

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 05:29:40 pm
content: Wow! Thank you everybody for all the answers!I was reading the threads you linked about the XJW01 and I'm leading towards it.I don't think I will buy a simple ESR meter just to be able to do in-circuit testing, I can live with no input protection and out of circuit.My needs are sporadic ESR measurements for repairs and for what I do I can live with no in-circuit testing I think, plus the added ESR capabilities will make me able to measure capacitance accurately (now I use a multimeter for that) and inductance (have an old inductance meter DIY kit)I really like the fact that the XJW01 comes with Kelvin clips and Kelvin tweezers, the DE-5000 has simple kelvin alligator clips if I saw correctly and I don't want to bother with a mod, also, after import tax et al the DE-5000 will cost more than twice the XJW01.Now the only thing that is quite holding me back and which would justify the DE-5000 is the 100kHz measurement frequency and the overall better name brand, will I regret it for what I do? (casual repair ESR check, some current shunt & low ohm measurements, simple R L C measurements to match components in projects and similar stuff)

author: indman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 05:46:18 pm
content: Quote from: ceoxrad on September 10, 2020, 05:29:40 pmNo, you won't regret it, the XJW01 is perfectly suited to your needs!

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 06:12:45 pm
content: the only esr meters that are voltage proof that I know are : the peak esr70and the DIY jay_diddy_b esr meter adapterhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/and like lots of people here the deree de5000 is the best bang for buck for an LCR meter, more precise but more fragile too.

author: rauldm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 07:25:56 pm
content: The ESR for repair is essential tool, for example I test first all capacitor in a circuit before start to repair, with this method I repaired a lot of devices without use my multimeter.Regards.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 07:38:49 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on September 10, 2020, 06:12:45 pmAll the current Bob Parker designed ESR meters can have protection diodes added like jay_diddy_b esr meter adapter project has (which is also good option if you want to go the DIY $20 route). Some models come with them as standard, one thing that the Bob Parker designs without protection diodes can do is characterize battery health degrading as well.Quote from: ceoxrad on September 10, 2020, 05:29:40 pmPersonally I'd still get the DE5000 if your budget can handle it, the frequency support is really important on LCR meter. Wait until you get a datasheet that provides specs at a test frequency that your LCR meter doesn't measure.Kelvin measurements for ESR is a waste of time in repair. ESR is good or bad, if the component is out of spec the ESR is out a mile. No two capacitors will measure the same so unless you have very special requirements there is a lot more important things to worry about.So don't think the DE5000 going to be unusable out of the box it's a cheap but damn solid instrument for $100 that can be made even better for proper Kelvin use for little money. You can buy the exact leads you like and covert them over to the DE5000 if you need to for next to no effort.They use the same chipset in many different LCR meters some are quite expensive. But anyway I'm just telling you the caveats from previous experience so you know what you are getting into later.

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 08:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on September 10, 2020, 07:38:49 pmIn the end I pulled the trigger on the DE-5000, I watched some videos and the interface of the XJW01 seems very cumbersome, also that lack of 100kHz (and exact 10kHz) bothered me and now I'm set with that too.I hope I made a good investment (was a bit steep compared to my initial budget, paid approx 115$ incl. shipping from Japan with accessories).I also bought a cheap pair of kelvin clips (the same shipped with XJW01) for 8 bucks, I'll mod the alligator clips test fixture with themThank you everybody for the input, this forum is golden!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 08:58:16 pm
content: I think you should be happy with it, I've got a full blown bench LCR meter and I still like the price and utility of the DE5000. Past that point gets quite expensive so it's easy to stop there.I might get a set of those clips and tweezers myself after I look at them a bit closer, the last chinese tweezers I brought weren't all that great but I don't tend to use tweezers much. I could use a good set of kelvin probes.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 09:44:04 pm
content: DE-5000.....great meter, good choice!

author: 13hm13
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2020, 02:01:17 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on September 10, 2020, 09:44:04 pmHow does something like the DE-5000 compare to cheap ($20) "Multi-function" LCR-TC1 ?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2020, 06:11:54 am
content: Quote from: 13hm13 on September 11, 2020, 02:01:17 am2 to 3 digits more in the value measured, and only one digit in price.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2020, 08:38:47 am
content: Quote from: 13hm13 on September 11, 2020, 02:01:17 amOn the DE5000 aside from resolution, multiple test frequencies are supported, has a data interface, does kelvin (4 wire) measurements, has a sorting feature. It's more a true LCR meter.The cheap Chinese component testers are still handy as they do diode, transistor, fet testing as well as basic LCR. All the Chinese testers are essentially clones and are based on the original German AVR Transistortester project. They can be DIYed back to the original project or be "upgraded" by replacing the low quality Chinese parts. So it's a good little tool+project at the same time. Otherwise you can just build the original.