Is it just me? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 03:21:07 am
content: Or is there agreat dealmore BS being posted here of late than usual?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 03:25:08 am
content: Well you know, people who congregate around bullshit too much tend to smell like it themselves.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 04:50:29 am
content: ^^ That's the kind of thing I mean. UFO's, Evil America, alien life, conspiracy theories, group funding religiosity, blah blah blah.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 04:58:48 am
content: You're smart enough to leave it be. Unfortunately there are people like me who easily get caught up in arguments and encourage them to continue.... I've got to learn to stay out.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 04:59:08 am
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 03:21:07 amAsks the guy who recommends Ginger L.'s greatest hits to a potential minor?

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:16:53 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 08, 2013, 04:59:08 amah... the internet...

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:27:48 am
content: Well it was that or being the 10th person to recommend Blade Runner or Aliens. Wasn't a serious recommendation anyway and I do lack the psychic ability to guess the age of unknown members. Probably should avoid all kinds of "adult" references in future as technically almost anyone of nearly any age could be reading and posting.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:32:24 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 04:58:48 amWhy don't you get stuck into some kind of ambitious electronics project instead? Posting and arguing BS on an internet forum is a great way to frivolously waste copious amounts of time. Yes, a bit like I'm doing now

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:38:19 am
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 06:32:24 amI completely disagree! And to prove my point, I'll provide an unrelated insult to your ancestry.

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:41:05 am
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 04:50:29 amYou know, that's the thing that sets up apart as a species, the ability to form abstract theories with no real evidence to back them up. Apart from Einstein, Bohr etc. who are largely proven right by virtue of not having been proved wrong yet, there are also the literate intelligences like Arthur C. Clarke, Charles Berlitz etc. who have asked question along the line of what you are are criticizing here.If you ask me, those things are a great deal more valid and realistic than what 100 million U.S. citizens eat up each Sunday at church! Food for thought...

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:44:36 am
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 03:21:07 amI'm not sure if this is the kind of "BS" you mean, but there have sure been a lot of "I want to use an ATX power supply...", "Do my homework for me...", "urgent help me find a thesis topic" to "Help me build a SIMPLE BLue tooth enabled autopilot flying car....my uncle has a soldering gun" posts you usually see on that other forum that shall remain nameless.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:16:03 am
content: Quote from: Jon Chandler on July 08, 2013, 06:44:36 amI've been seeing that over at AVRFreaks as well.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:22:20 am
content: No, I mean the OT BS such as that in the "4th of July" and the Edward Snowden threads, to pick two examples. There was a kerfuffle a little while ago about OT stuff and the general consensus at the time appeared to be that non-electronics related discussion should be kept to a minimum. I've posted the occasional off topic post and rant myself and make no claims to sainthood, but heck, reading through the "latest posts" the past few mornings and evenings things seemed to have seriously taken off in the opposite direction!And yeah, the daft "do my homework pleezzz!" posts are always annoying, but that kind of on-topic stuff will always be part of an open forum. Just have to live it it.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:33:49 am
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 07:22:20 am#What you need is some good sport to distract you, rugby, cricket or maybe the tour de France.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:51:12 am
content: This isn't your first day on the Internet is it?Bullshit is the Interweb's Dark Energy. Without it everything would collapse in on itself.

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 10:20:29 am
content: Quote from: Pippy on July 08, 2013, 09:36:47 amIt's always risky to start censoring and frankly I'd rather Dave spends his time shooting video for his followers. If a thread goes astray, help to educate and put it straight again or simply ignore it. Frankly I think some people are overreaching a bit here.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 10:39:44 am
content: QuoteYeah, but heavy handed moderation can be just as bad, eventually making a forum stale and boring. One forum that I used to frequent, besides being mostly a repository for the constant stream of silly "newbie" questions, has degenerated into a place where only the diehards remain - essentially a forum of perpetual bickering and backstabbing in contrived politeness for a group of people who essentially despise one another, arguing the same old crap year in an year out with boring monotony!Anyway, the only reason I started this whiny thread is that a large part of the recent direction and temper of the forum discussion appeared to be heading in a direction opposite to that which was not so long ago established as desirable by some apparent kind of consensus. I would not have thought that there would have been much of a point in complaining otherwise!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 11:05:45 am
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 07:22:20 amThe Snowden thing was originally about the devices used to spy, I think. It got out of hand because, unfortunately, the moderators of the forum (if there are any that are active) failed in their job to keep the thread on track. If you don't have moderators that help keep topics on track, that's exactly what will happen. It probably would have been a good technical thread otherwise.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 12:43:03 pm
content: There is something people need to be aware of, when it comes to potentially touchy subjects like politics or religion in an open access forum: Either the community actively suppresses troublesome subjects through moderation or general consensus, or the forum will eventually devolve into complete chaos. Take your pick.The core reason for this is apparently not obvious to everybody, but it is this: Not only are touchy subjects something people care deeply about, to the point that some individuals may find it hard to let a subject drop. What is much worse is that which subjects are suitable for debate in polite company varies hugely from country to country. Even just the 'tone' on how (harshly) you debate, say, politics in public, varies considerably from country to country. To top this off, then local politics and values in society in general flat out doesn't translate across national borders.Thus, if subjects like politics, religion and sex are open for debate, then sooner or later people will fall out, and chaos ensues. No exceptions that I am aware of.I am not a native English speaker, that is probably apparent. If I used my country's social rules to set the boundaries for what I felt could be said and debated in polite company, I'd be swiftly kicked from many English language forums. Alternatively individuals from some countries would get a completely incorrect picture of me as a person. Being labelled as immature wouldn't even be the start of it...Similarly, for historic reasons, my country has organized society in ways, which according to public opinion in other parts of the world, is utterly impossible/madness/fringe. There are brutal, provable facts about how my country is actually organized, the mere mentioning of which would be taken as flat out impossible, branding me a liar, idiot or worse.Conversely there are common statements from citizens of other nations, which - if it happened face to face - would make any 'sane'(?) member of my local society force a smile, start backing away and discretely call the authorities.Alternatively a subject like religion is considered a personal matter where I live, and it is rarely discussed in public. This has some very deep and perhaps non-obvious roots dating back centuries in our case, yet is frequently mistaken to mean most of my countrymen does not hold religious views, or that the subject is not important to us.Then we have the whole 'tone' problem, on just how you debate for instance politics in a public setting.Many individuals from around the world will be acutely aware of these potential problems. Yet sufficiently many are not, resulting in countless opportunities for confusion and misunderstandings.These social differences between countries has been a pet observation project of mine for more than 20 years of being on the 'net. The bottom line is that once everything is said and done, then the forum has 3 choices here:*) Active moderation, to keep touchy subjects suppressed. Edit: This can be very difficult to pull off, without quenching the community spirit in the process.*) Common consensus by the community, to keep touchy subjects suppressed.*) Allowing touchy subjects to be debated will eventually cause the downfall of a community. Moderated debates of these subjects won't work, it won't stay polite.From my observations I'm not aware of any exceptions to these principles for running a public forum on the 'net, so I'd suggest you take your pick and act accordingly.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 12:58:39 pm
content: I think the forum is getting infested by religious aliens that brainwashed americans into tapping the global network and trolling for data. Luckily the second coming of that failed scifi writer .. Eh rats.. What was his name again .. Rhymes with Bubba .. Will all set us free.Now pardon me while i put on my tin-foil hat, asbestos lined underwear , open the 4th floor window and attemtp to fly away ...

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 01:12:05 pm
content: It's a difficult life being a moderatorDamned if you do and damned if you don't.The policy for moderation is set by the forum owner and not by the users so any complaints should go to Dave, not that he isn't aware of the issue.As there are a lot of threads currently running it's difficult for any moderator to keep track of exactly where they're heading, It's a great help if users can report posts they don't like via theReport to Moderatorbutton.Of course, there's no guarantee that anything will be done to make the reporting user happy, but at least you'll have brought the subject to the attention of the moderators.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 01:32:56 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 08, 2013, 12:58:39 pmSounds plausible. I challenge anyone to prove it wrong! As irrefutable as Einstein!

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 01:35:05 pm
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on July 08, 2013, 12:43:03 pmI need to know that country's name.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 01:47:04 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffS on July 08, 2013, 01:12:05 pmI haven't been setting a good example myselfAnd life is also difficult trying to set rules too, because it's impossible.That's why this forum hasn't had many in terms of forum rules, or rigid guidelines for the moderators either.It's been more of a "vibe" than formal rules, and I think that is the only way such a thing can likely work. Otherwise it's push poo up a hill with a pointy stick.I've always trusted the judgement of the moderators to do what the think is right, and they have done a good job I think.The forum is now so big that we (3 of us) can't possibly read every post and follow every thread, so we generally have to rely on moderator reports from the users.No way I want a rigid and heavily moderated forum, I hate those, it's a huge amount of work, and it never works. But I know it can't be anything goes either. And I think we have and still do strike a good balance here.I have recommended that the moderators (including me) tighten down a bit on completely off-topic threads from the get-go that will obviously lead to no good. e.g. religion and politics.But threads that drift off-topic is a natural part of human interaction, and I don't want to really limit that.The one big usual rules still apply. No personal attacks. And I'd like to think that if people see a thread generally getting heated or out of hand, report it, and a moderator will likely step in and wag the finger in the thread and ask for calm. At which point I'd expect things to settle down. If not, then it's last resort parachute pants MC Hammer time.Really, I hope the mods don't have to do anything at all except kill the odd spam. My dream is that this is a self managed forum and that we can all work to keep it pretty civil but still lively.A lot of the time we get reports for storms in a teacup, and anal retentiveness on a forum can be just as bad as heavily moderated one!So please no "I take offence to what Joe Bloggs said" etc reports. Life is short, laugh and ignore. A heated debate takes two people.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 02:33:17 pm
content: Of course, Dave, you just called me mentally ill in another thread, I would call that a personal attack. Then locked it. You can do as you want, it's your forum, and I really appreciate what you've done here. Enjoy the fun stuff I sent you. At least for now I won't be interacting with you anymore. Have fun.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 03:06:03 pm
content: Yeah, Dave, that was definitely unnecessarily mean. There are better ways to get your point across. Do you really think you're going to change anyone's mind by telling them to "seek help" for something the majority of the world's population disagrees with you on? That was pure bullying.This shit is why nobody likes atheists. You're usually a really cool person, butdamnis your horse high when you talk about religion.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 03:08:48 pm
content: Quote from: GK on July 08, 2013, 06:32:24 amI am stuck in a few. No matter how busy I've been, though, I have the probably rather bad habit of hopping on the internet before I go to bed.....

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 04:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 03:06:03 pmThere was one point where I stopped watching Dave's videos for about 3 months after one of his rants on religion on youtube.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 05:35:19 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffS on July 08, 2013, 01:12:05 pmI know all about it - I run my own forum and have moderators. Nobody's going to feel sorry for you in that job.QuoteI suggest the policy needs a review.QuoteThe problem is, if the forum is getting too big for the number of moderators you havewait for it ...- get more moderators to handle things.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 05:49:29 pm
content: Lets go completely off topic........Found a flying rat nest at work with the 2 eggs, and had to chase the sitting parent off and remove it. Kept the eggs warm on top of the monitor and today they both hatched. Now feeding B7 and B8, a long line or serially raised birds.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 05:55:43 pm
content: So you chased off the parent to raise the birds by yourself? That doesn't sound right... Couldnt you have just hired somebody with a pellet rifle?

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 06:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 08, 2013, 05:49:29 pmYou had to?!Found a nest with two small doves too in a tree next to the balcony of my house. Decided to make it off limit to the cats and let mommy- and daddy- bird do their thing.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:06:58 pm
content: Had to, as the nest was in the airconditioner that was about to be moved for painting and the mother would have abandoned them right then. Found Thursday, put in shirt pocket till I got to my office then placed them on the old CRT monitor I use at work, which is the right temp at the top for keeping them warm. Came in this morning and saw the crack in the one, then an hour later the other did the same.

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:14:07 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 08, 2013, 07:06:58 pm

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:22:44 pm
content: Just fed them, and they hopefully will survive on the pronutro and milk mix. They need to stay warm so I guess they will sleep in bed with me tonight in the light bulb box they are in.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 03:06:03 pmSpeaking as an atheist who has at least a few friends, some of whom are even religious, I think this is a generalization too far.Dave is an up-front sort of guy and it may be that rather than being mean he was pointing out - in a possibly-less-than-tactful way - that intense religious experiences such as duskglow describes have been linked with neurological disturbances such as schizophrenia and epilepsy.It may be that religious experiences can be generated experimentally using a device created by Stanley Koren and Michael Persinger:http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.htmlThis could be a golden opportunity to make the subject of religion on this forum on-topic at last - an open source design for a "God helmet'.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:43:10 pm
content: An open source project involving brain electrodes would be dangerously reckless and very awesome. Any volunteers?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:46:36 pm
content: I disagree about it being too far of a generalization. I have met very few people who don't at least roll their eyes at the word 'atheist', and that complete lack of tact is why. You may be better, but you are an exception, not the rule.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:51:49 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 08, 2013, 07:22:44 pmThat's just... cute. Good on you for caring about them.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 07:56:49 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 07:43:10 pmNot so very reckless - the gadget in question uses indirect magnetic stimulation - no electrodes.Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 07:46:36 pmAh, but you're from the USA, which is a remarkably religious nation. Come to England and you will find a great many atheists who don't necessarily want to shove their lack of belief up people's noses.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 08:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on July 08, 2013, 07:56:49 pmBut if it's already been shown to have an effect on the brain, you don't know what side effects it might be having.Still awesome. I'd love to see that project. I just don't want to be on the receiving end...QuoteGood point. As Dave said, even the PM was an atheist in Oz. That wouldneverhappen here. Never, never never never. The torches and pitchforks would be at the White House in minutes. OK, you win this one, it is generalizing to say "nobody likes atheists". I still stand by the assertion that it was unnecessarily tactless, and in places like this where "nobody likes atheists" is indeed true, it's the main reason why. There are a lot of very vocal atheists who talk like that all the time.He calls it "speaking his mind", but you can do that without attacking people.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 09:15:21 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 07:43:10 pmIt has already been done!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 09:17:10 pm
content: problem with religion is that it very quickly becomes a god-wagging contest along the lines of my god is better than yours , if you don't believe in mine you are an infidel ... and pretty soon the knives and arms come out ....

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 09:21:01 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 08, 2013, 09:17:10 pmOh man could I get down and dirty in this thread (I actually own and run an atheist forum) but I'm gonna shut my trap because I know now the mods have too little time to moderate the place.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 09:37:15 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 08, 2013, 07:46:36 pmI have to say one thing in regards to this. We atheists are bombarded constantly by the religious everyday and everywhere. Where is the politeness in that? Why are we supposed to sit quietly and just let everyone impose their beliefs on us in everyday life and think that is not aggressive nor lacking in tact? It is everywhere and we cannot avoid it. When an atheist speaks up it is considered rude and offensive but when you have to listen to religion all day, see religious statues in the streets, see it on money, see it in schools and government buildings, that is polite and fair?When we atheists stop having this shoved in our faces constantly then we will have no reason to say anything at all. I would be very happy if religion was never mentioned again on this forum and I would never have to refute or say anything about it again myself.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 09:37:53 pm
content: Quote from: smashedProton on July 08, 2013, 09:15:21 pmUnfortunately not. TMS equipment such as that shown generates a simple, high strength magnetic field. Persinger's device uses complex fields modeled on physiological processes which are maybe a million times weaker.Of course, that means the project will be much cooler, with lots of signal processing and other fun stuff.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 09:41:52 pm
content: Lightages, no, it's not right that in many places atheists are treated like that. Trust me, where I live, even the casually religious come out of the woodwork to tell you you're evil scum if you say you're an atheist. But just because some people have been nasty to you doesn't give you the privilege to be nasty toother people. Nobody's shoved their religion down Dave's throat in this thread. I'm sure people have in the past, butnot here. Your default position should be one of at least neutrality if not outright kindness. Some people deserve dickishness, but wait until they earn it.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2013, 10:07:34 pm
content: This thread has moved over to religion from it's original topic, the direction of the forum.Locked.