Metcal HCT-900 or Hakko FR-810? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 12:25:59 am
content: Hello,I need to buy a professional hot air rework station. My needs are to remove easily and safely NAND Flash TSOP48 chips.I need to preserve both PCB pads and NAND chip (I need to flash it and solder it back).So it is very important the whole process reliability and to get replicable results.I saw these two models:Metcal HCT-900 (a classic model) and HAKKO FR-810 (just released new model).Metcal is less expensive (373.00 Euros) but its specs seem to be quite lower if compared to Hakko (about 550.00 Euros).Metcal Brand seems to be more professional here in Europe, but I also read good about Hakko.Hakko has a display, 5 custom presets, 120/L min, 600° C., easily removable nozzles.Metcal has Brand, a good distributor, it is heavy (4KG), but only 20/l min. and has no LCD display...Which model do you suggest, please?My budget is up to 600 Euros.Thanks

author: amiq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 03:17:02 am
content: I haven't used the Hakko, but have the HCT-900 and Quick 861DS. Of the two the Quick is about £100 cheaper, but IMO is the better unit.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 06:36:55 am
content: Between the OKi/Metcal and Hakko, the FR-810 is a much better unit with additional features IMHO (850 series models they came out with were simple, but performed very well and were reliable).That said, you might want to take a very serious look at theQuick 861DS(or DW, ... whatever; I have a 120V model <Quick's page>), particularly if your company has to be rather cost conscious. Sits in-between the OKi/Metcal and Hakko in terms of features & performance, but priced better than either.For example:Full digital control.No Start/Stop switch in the handle as there is in the Hakko (goes fully active when you remove it from the stand).Setback is activated when the handle is inserted into the stand (magnets installed in stand).Easy to remove nozzles (similar to Weller IME).Similar basic specs to the Hakko (100-500C & 1-120 lpm airflow for the Quick, 50-600C & 5-115 lpm for the Hakko; both use turbine pumps rather than diaphragm)Attached are some photos of the innards of the Quick (provided by forum memberwraper;source). Far better construction than what I was accustomed to for Chinese branded hot air stations.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 07:52:55 am
content: I've used the Metcal, and would have no problem recommending it as a suitable tool for the job you're looking to do. I've not used the others mentioned.

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 10:23:35 am
content: Thanks for replies! It seems that I had missed an important competitor, that I didn't considered.Where can I buy Quick 861DW(I guess it is the 230V European version) in Europe?My only concern is about reliability, accessories (nozzles, heather element), service...What about your experiences with Quick? Any major issue?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 03:02:11 pm
content: Quote from: fastcooler on February 22, 2015, 10:23:35 amI already linked it for you on the second line of my previous post.And although it's labeled as a 861DS, it's the same model as the 861DW (no idea why they changed the last two letters and make no mention of it on their own site).It is wired for 230V mains, so you're covered there as well (seller in link is located in Poland, and have seen two other sellers, also located in Poland).Others will have to chime in for the best places to get nozzles and spares (wasn't successful searching mediasort for either). But it uses the N series of nozzles (Nxxxx, x being digits), not the more common A series (these have the screw clamp incorporated into them). That said, you'd be surprised what you'll be able to do with the 3 nozzles that come with it (I've not needed to purchase a specialty nozzle yet).FWIW, no issues with mine thus far.

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 03:12:04 pm
content: Hello Nanofrog, you are right! Sorry, I didn't saw it...I found a model in UK that seems to be a little more powerful da DS/DW, it is called Quick 861DA and it should be 1200 Watt and 200L/min.Maybe it could be still a better choice for me!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 04:12:05 pm
content: Quote from: fastcooler on February 22, 2015, 03:12:04 pmThat's entirely up to you (~95EUR more).Personally I've not needed more thermal capacity yet, but I also have a hot air plate for the underside of a PCB if needed. Perhaps this might be something to consider as well (handy with an iron too).Panavisecircuit board holder is really handy with such a setup IMHO (circuit board holder kit is the324), which isn't exactly inexpensive here in the US, and will certainly be more in the EU. So long as it comes in under aBernstein Spanfixxthough, you're still ahead on cost (i.e. Panavise350+315is ~ the same cost as the equivalent in Spanfixx just for the circuit board holder w/ a base & angle piece, which you'd need <9-261+9-253+9-255>). So you can get more for around the same money, or the equivalent product for less (circuit board holder configuration only). You're choice.Seeing Panavise on Amazon.co.uk (some anyway; no listing for the 324), and you can get Bernstein from Farnell and RS for example. Not sure if there's better pricing out there, so might be worth a look if you've the time.BTW, if you go into your user profile and set your country, it will display your nation's flag beneath your userID. Makes it far easier for everyone, as it avoids the "where are you" questions, and lets those responding provide relevant links.

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 12:30:02 am
content: Thanks for your suggestions!

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 04:15:28 pm
content: Finally I ordered Quick 861DW from Poland...it is already on the way!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 04:48:42 pm
content: Quote from: fastcooler on February 22, 2015, 03:12:04 pmWhat is the importance of having high air flow?On my old analog hakko I always dial the airflow down to have higher and more localized heat.BTW, the main thing I would change in it is that bulky handle. Somebody posted here a few months ago a pencil like Metcal air heater and it looks more handy.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 04:51:57 pm
content: Good choice!I arrived late, but here you have other options:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hot-air-guns-with-profile!/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 05:05:52 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on February 23, 2015, 04:48:42 pmHigh air flow is usable for a heatshrink and soldering a big stuff with high thermal capacity. With that Metcal pencil you won't be able to solder anything bigger than SMD passives and tiny ICs. However if you cannot set airflow to the low level when needed, high airflow is not worth it. Quick 961 is very good in this aspect because do have a huge and accurate airflow regulation range.

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 07:53:34 pm
content: I hope to be able to post soon my experience with my new Quick 861DW ! I should receive it before Friday...My previous Rework Stations are Aoyue 852A++ and Aoyue 968+ ... terrible experience with them, almost toys.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 10:46:29 pm
content: Quote from: fastcooler on February 23, 2015, 04:15:28 pmEnjoy.

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 11:10:14 pm
content: Arrived! It is very very good! Really professional, I am more than happy! It can do the work in no time... Thanks for your suggestion!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 01:16:48 am
content: Best part is, you didn't have to blow your entire budget on it (sure you can find another use for it).FWIW, I like the hot air shields by JBC for keeping the hot air where you want it in tight quarters. But being both cost conscious and liking DIY solutions, I try to make them as needed from whatever thin metal I can (prefer flat bottom <no reinforcing pattern embossed in>, disposable aluminum bake ware; just cut & fold).

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 08:30:44 am
content: Yes nanofrog , I am also very interested in those semi-automatic tools by JBC. Do you know if they work with any hot air pickup tool vacuum pumps, please?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 02:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: fastcooler on February 27, 2015, 08:30:44 amYes they will.A modified aquarium pump would do well for this, and not cost the earth.In regard to DIY'ing your own shields, I was only thinking of the main square part, not the vacuum parts that are spot welded onto the one in the photo I attached (should have made that clear).JBC makes some without the vacuum attachment spot welded on (i.e. the smaller ones), and offer a couple of those spring loaded vacuum pullers in a tripod configuration that straddle the smaller shields or can be used on their own (seem to recall they're ~$60 per here in the US). They do require enough room to sit flat on the PCB though (needs this to get a vacuum seal), so a good vacuum tweezers or manual tweezers will do better on pulling parts from densely populated boards.

author: fastcooler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 09:03:53 pm
content: Are they the only ones providing such useful tools for auto-lifting IC, please?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 12:18:57 am
content: Quote from: fastcooler on February 27, 2015, 09:03:53 pmAFAIK, Yes.There are others that incorporate some sort of vacuum device, but the actual lift & removal is done by the operator.

author: vze1lryy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2015, 05:14:08 am
content: Old thread but I feel the need to chime in.My friend bought three HCT-900 hot air stations for our class teaching component level board repair on laptop motherboards and cellphones. We did not want students working on $50 pieces of shit, but on good gear. I have good experiences with Hakko and we all know of metcal as a well known and respected brand, so we got some Hakko & metcal stations.One of those HCT-900 blows fuses regularly. The other only works when balanced at an angle like if you keep a wooden block under it, and today stopped working altogether. The other one is totally dead and a doorstep. Doesn't work with new fuse. These have been used for no longer than six days.The FR-801 that I have from three years ago was used and abused BADLY by me, I mean high heat(7 tolow airflow(5 to 10) for years. I left it on by accident when I went to get lunch or help a customer, it was dropped off truck when moving and only died when heating element messed up after three and a half years of nonstop, abusive use.The other FR-801 that my friend has has been kicking ass and also been putting up from abuse from students who have no idea how they work or how to treat them properly.I cannot speak directly for the FR-810 because it is different form the FR-801. But what I can say is that from my experience with three units, I know the HCT-900 to be a piece of shit, and it is only 10 or 20 percent cheaper than the Hakko, so I would not buy it. I can completely understand if someone else disagrees with me. I understand that metcal is a reputable company. Everyone will have their own opinions and it is based on their experience with the product. My experience is that the Hakko hot air station stands up to ignorant, irresponsible abuse for years, while the Metcals die barely being used.Not to mention the handle. When used at the high heat required for the ten layer circuit boards with those matte-like finished surfaces that laugh at heat, the Hakko handpiece slowly crumbles as the years go by but your hand is comfortable. On the metcal turn the heat up to what is required to remove a component soldered on a large ground plane and you need to be holding that thing by the top or else you are burning your hand on it.I wouldn't buy the HCT-900. If the FR-810 were $1000 and the metcal were $150, I would buy the metcal, but I see the price difference as about forty bucks and that forty bucks is worth not having to deal with this!!