Printing issue - offset on X or Y after 7hrs printing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:27:39 pm
content: Hi all,This is with a Creality Ender 3 (v3 KE), essentially new.Please see enclosed pictures. About 7hrs into the print, there was a sudden shift to the right of the whole print, of maybe about an inch or so.I have not generated the STL myself (just the conversion to gcode). But I am not aware of any issues by others - here's where where I grabbed the files from:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/keithley-k155-battery-holder-3d-model/.What would be some thoughts as to what can cause this? I am apprehensive about trying to print this again for another seven hours just to discover this shift occurring again.Also, not sure what others' experience is, but I can find any Creality support in the US to speak of. Is there some community, forum, etc? The reddit thing is a little bit of advertising and little else from what I'm seeing.Thank you all for your input.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:57:32 pm
content: Question:1) It looks like two failed attempts? One with a brim and one without?2) Possible that the x-axis belt slipped and offset the hotend?3) Possilbe the print came loose from the build plate?4) What slicer are you using? What were your settings?Were you using supports for the bottom? Maybe orienting it standing up with a brim would be better?If PruaSlicer, could you run a summary program I wrote(G-Code Viewer)and post a screenshot?

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 09:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on November 15, 2024, 08:57:32 pmJust one attempt, two pics included (one a little closer). So this is one single print that went awry. Sorry if that was confusing.Quote from: MarkF on November 15, 2024, 08:57:32 pmNot sure. What I've tried this far is tightening the z-frame (meaning the entire U-shaped scaffolding). The crews were not very tight, which may be because this was put together a couple of weeks ago and I've not retightened anything.Quote from: MarkF on November 15, 2024, 08:57:32 pmThe print stayed on very tightly - and actually, compared to my old printer (an Ender 3 Pro), this takes much longer to release a certain print after finishing. So the adherence to the hot plate is very good, if not a little excessive, frankly.Quote from: MarkF on November 15, 2024, 08:57:32 pmI've been using Creality's own slicer, which I'm not in love with - I think it tries to pack more functionality than prior versions, but does that by putting certain settings in odd places and hides others altogether. Very tough to make sense of it, at least for me. Difficult to find are such things as settings for other PLAs (temperatures), or the "rafting" and supports, etc. Not to mention the lackluster wifi functionality, which is inexcusable in 2024. I'm still moving a memory thingie from computer to the printer.Quote from: MarkF on November 15, 2024, 08:57:32 pm

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 09:24:11 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on November 15, 2024, 09:12:30 pmI enclose another picture that may help in determining the cause of this. One can see that the left side is better aligned vertically, but going to the right there's some small errors that seem to be adding as the printing head travels left to right. I wonder if from a point on, going higher in elevation (z), the error became too large and cycled the head to add an offset as seen.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 09:32:19 pm
content: Your slicer is probably Cura than.You would want to change it to "Expert" Mode to see all the settings.I never liked the keyboard shortcuts to pan/rotate/zoom when using a laptop. Since they abandoned Windows 7 support, I've moved to PrusaSlicer for my Creality CR-10 Mini. One thing I like about PrusaSlicer is that append almost all of the settings at the end of every gCode file. Hence, my program to scan the gCode to recall how I sliced a model.I also continue to put my files on a micoSD card to move them to the printer. I have a Raspberry Pi 3 with OctoPrint on it that you can transfer files over Wifi but now just use it with a USB webcam to monitor long prints.I can only suggest checking everything associated with moving the hotend left and right. Stepper cables, belts, the hotend itself for anything that is loose.If you post you gCode file, I will take a look at it with PrusaSlicer to see if anything looks odd. PrusaSlicer is free and can be setup for the Ender 3.Ender 3 (v3 KE)... Does that mean you're running Klipper instead of Marlin?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 09:36:58 pm
content: That's odd. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.Have you tried printing anything else?Maybe the gCode file has been corrupted.Might try to re-format your microSD card, re-slice the STL file and try again.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 10:37:13 pm
content: I've done a little research on the Ender 3 KE printer.Sooo much has changed in printers since I started!!!I have never used Klipper or slicers for it.Not sure I'm going to be much help.All I can think of at this point is- check for something loose: belts, wires, etc.- slow down the print speed- try if a different print has problems (something long in the x-axis)I don't see how it could be correct on one side of the axis and offset so much on the other.I see it is Wifi capable. Maybe something is connecting to the printer and messing it up?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 10:50:32 pm
content: If you have something to record it printing, that would likely help seeing the failure occur, if it happens again.Hard to tell from the photos, but in the first photo it looks like one edge on the left side did warp and lift off of the bed. Then the hot end can collide with the print causing it to loose steps.But you did say it was adhered well.. so.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 03:54:37 pm
content: I'm giving it another shot today, after tightening up those screws (there's three on each side of the U-frame, and an additional two that secure an L-shaped bracket on one side, the latter being I think exclusively designed to cancel any swings and vibrations of the U-frame as the head becomes elevated during a print (on Z) and moves around with high X/Y amplitude). Hopefully this one print succeeds, otherwise I'll have a real problem as this seems to take a long time before symptoms occur. Not sure how I'd diagnose given that fact.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 10:54:36 pm
content: This is currently at something like 80%, so well beyond the point of failure that occurred yesterday, and all is well this far. I can only think of two possibilities:Some mechanical "exception" occurred - such as the head somehow hit the print, and not enough to shift it on the hot bed, but enough to throw its alignment off.There was some snag to how the filament was being released from the spool (I really think this is the cause). I found the filament coiled in a way that forced the head to pull very hard to draw the filament in as it was printing. I think there may have been a sudden release which threw the head by that inch or two I saw the print shifting at a certain point.Hopefully this helps someone else down the line. Please make sure your filament is being released from the outer layer of your spool and that is freely comes out with no restraint or snag.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 11:50:35 pm
content: Glad this print is working out for you.Filament hint: Never let go of the end of the filament so it can wrap upon itself and tangle on the spool. Occasionally, you will get a spool that is tangled. I'm mostly print Hatchbox filament. It prints well and is wound neatly on the spools.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 03:41:20 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on November 16, 2024, 11:50:35 pmThank you for your continued support, MarkF. And good point on the end of the filament. I typically reattach it on the side of the spool, where there's usually a slot or something. But given I don't print too often these days, this particular spool has moved a lot around the bench, and so there were many opportunities for it to get entangled like it did. I only realized what happened in retrospect, although I guess I should have seen it sooner. But I'm glad I did before this second attempt to print things that takes >10hrs...3D printing is a process that is mechanically intensive and very extended over time, that involves a lot of parts and things that can go wrong. I'm glad it was something trivial like this, but I - as possibly many others - tend to first go to complicated explanations and can get lost in the maze of details.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 04:43:15 am
content: >10 hrs...I sliced the model at 0.2mm layer height and it only took ~7hrs.Did you slice it at a fine layer height?I tend to pick 0.08mm, 0.12mm, 0.16mm, 0.20mm, or 0.28mm layer depending on how much detail is in the model. Fine layer heights take a lot of time to print.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 02:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on November 17, 2024, 04:43:15 amNo, regular .2mm layer, raft and supports, 10h 55m... And that's estimated, I'm always seeing distinctly longer prints in reality.What printer did you slice it for? I assume you identified and ran the slicing for the K155 battery holder, though I'm not sure I mentioned that.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 03:05:40 pm
content: I sliced the battery holder model you linked in your first post.It was sliced for 0.2mm layer height, with supports, and no raft.I don't know what I was thinking. I re-sliced the battery holder and got 9.5 hrs.The print times the PrusaSlicer estimates have been pretty close to the actual time it takes me.I understand your Ender 3 is capable of much higher print speeds?

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 03:26:55 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on November 17, 2024, 03:05:40 pmI think, in theory, it should. But I'm not seeing anything distinctly faster relative to my old Ender 3 Pro, though maybe I have to mess with the settings more. I'll also try a third party slicer (the Creality Slicer 4.8.2 seems indeed to be a Cura offshoot).

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 03:29:48 pm
content: There's some oddness to the temperatures as the printer runs them - for instance (though I need to take a closer look to verify this) but it seems the printer starts the printing at a lower temperature than the 210 I generally set it at for my PLA (I tend to use Microcenter's own PLA, in large part as I like to buy locally to keep them open...). Some maybe there's some variation on how the printer does it vs. what the gcode sets?...

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 04:17:43 pm
content: On the topic of slicers - there have been some mentions here for some alternative programs, but what has worked particularly well for some of you here, for say, an Ender?BTW - even if the Creality Slicer may have been created on top of the Cura engine (which is what it sounds like to me from points made here), I'm not finding an "expert" mode for it to run.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 04:47:39 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on November 17, 2024, 04:17:43 pmFor instance, I just installed Prusa Slicer, but it doesn't seem to have direct support for my Ender. Though I may be able to run it by finding the "closest match" from the Ender options listed.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 05:16:19 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on November 17, 2024, 04:47:39 pmI didn't flush the PrusaSlicer for the Ender 3 KE. I saw the basic Ender 3 and that you can configure it for Klipper instead of Marlin on the Printer setup. It will probably take some tinkering to get it working properly.As far as a Expert mode, I was referring to Cura and PrusaSlicer. At the time, I was unaware of the slicer that came with your printer. Remember my experience is with the Creality CR-10 Mini bought in 2018. Some of what I said earlier may be irrelevant to your newer printer and slicer.Klipper is all foreign to me...

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 05:59:10 pm
content: If you really want to try a different slicer, this video may help.Apparently, there are no pre-built configurations for the Ender 3 V3.https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=fsTHNXIbSngOr from a different video, the configuration for the Ender 3 V2 would be a good starting place to start.

author: screwbreaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 08:03:05 pm
content: I had a similar problem on my ender 3 v2.The print started well and after a while there was an offset of about 1cm on the Y axis.I fixed it by replacing the Y motor.I also got some anti vibration stands to raise up a bit the printer, and allow a better air flow to the fan on the main board.For now seems ok. But with creality who knows.I suspect that must be an hidden code somewhere in the printer.Something like that:Code:if (number_of_good_prints > MAX_GOOD_PRINTS) {repeat {fail_that_print($stuff_to_print);untill (the_idiot_buy_another_upgrade()) {number_of_good_prints = 0;}} else {print_it_flawlessly($stuff_to_print);}

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 08:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: screwbreaker on November 17, 2024, 08:03:05 pmHa!

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 10:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: screwbreaker on November 17, 2024, 08:03:05 pmIt may be that the current limit for the stepper motor is too low or just on the edge. On some printer mainboards there is an adjustment pot (sometimes it's just a sense resistor) for each stepper driver.BE VERY CAREFUL if you try to adjust the current or you will have a very bad day.There is a limit to not overheating the motor or the driver chip.A different motor might fix a problem if it did not require as much current. The same might be said by just swapping the motor with one of the other like motors. Different torque load, different current requirement ... Hopefully Creality has allowed for more flexible tolerances on components.