They've borked my homepage and screw up - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:12:35 pm
content: I'm having this homepagehttp://wunderkis.desince many years now. Hosted by a rather smallish provider, always working fine, having quick and competent response to support questions. Some interesting features like ssh access and DynDNS support so I could point subdomains to my home server. Worked as a charme.Now, sometime ago this company was sold to a (presumably) larger one, they stated everything will continue as usual. It did, I wasn't concerned. Then they had some kind of a server failure, they reported this properly to me and after decent period of time, everything was up and running again. So what, shit happens, I wasn't concerned.Now, a few days ago they announced to move the admin interface from SphereConf to their standard product called "Cloudpit", and everything is supposed to work as before.Today they proudly announced "We moved your homepage to our way much better standard". No, nothing is the same as before, neither works as before. All the data moved to a spanking new VM environment, I was urged to create a new login. ssh and other access ceased, I guess I'm supposed to create new logins here. Didn't check the mailboxes yet. DynDNS failed, can't find any means to access NS entries in the colourful spanking new user interface.Wrote a support ticket. Got an automated answer: Sorry we're on overload, a qualified answer will take at least 72 hours. Bwargh! Old provider had response times from minutes to 2 hours (while business hours).Last but not least, Websites don't display properly anymore. OK, my handwritten html codes doesn't validate at all, I don't care as long as it is working proper in Firefox on Debian or Ubuntu. The old companies and my local apache server deliver the pages and Firefox renders, but the new one delivers in a subtle different way so Firefox doesn't render anymore. WTF? BTW, it does work on another domain hosted by the same package, but these pages aren't created by me and use a totally different approach (some CMS involved).So for now, I've got to use my redundant DynDNS to get to my home server and try to find out somewhen what's the reason for their new apache to not properly deliver my pages. Bwargh! Awaiting their answer regarding the name server settings and DynDNS possibilities - or make the change to some other hoster immediately?

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:53:18 pm
content: I clicked your link and my browser (latest Firefox on win 10) apparently tries to download the index.php file instead of displaying it.This is probably due to a misconfigured httpd.conf file.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 04:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: fubar.gr on November 07, 2017, 03:53:18 pmSame with Chrome and Edge on Win10.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:30:11 pm
content: Same. Fubar.gr probably nailed the cause. I'd guess their support is overloaded because this same issue is affecting ALL of their customers. Ooops. Guess someone didn't test enough prior to trying to migrate every customer.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on November 07, 2017, 06:30:11 pmIt's called a live test

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on November 07, 2017, 06:30:11 pmNo one ever tests enough. I watch our client send out updates to fix an issue and usually causes 2 more issues. Thank God it's their software and not ours, though we sold them the engine. Sad to say, my company is just as guilty. The stuffed shirts at corporate decided the call generating/inventory tracking software needed to be the same across the different divisions. So naturally, what worked in our division and was customizable by program was replaced by software that is no longer customizable, harder to use and has parts that doesn't make sense.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:52:09 pm
content: Quote from: fubar.gr on November 07, 2017, 03:53:18 pmYes, that's my educated guess too. Tryhttp://cb.wunderkis.de/wk/(my local copy of the homepage) - the index page isn't a .php at all but a .html with a little bit of embedded php.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:09:34 pm
content: Wrote another ticket to them, demanding to restore all previous features.BTW the new server is Nginx, before was Apachemg@l7:~$ wget --save-headers -O - wunderkis.de | head--2017-11-07 20:07:07--http://wunderkis.de/Resolving wunderkis.de (wunderkis.de)... 89.22.104.201Connecting to wunderkis.de (wunderkis.de)|89.22.104.201|:80... connected.HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OKLength: 1011 [application/x-httpd-php]Saving to: ‘STDOUT’- 100%[===================>] 1011 --.-KB/s in 0sHTTP/1.1 200 OKServer: nginxDate: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 19:07:07 GMTContent-Type: application/x-httpd-phpContent-Length: 1011Connection: keep-aliveX-Accel-Version: 0.01Last-Modified: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 11:12:26 GMTETag: "3f3-5537bf55aba80"Accept-Ranges: bytesX-Powered-By: PleskLinHere's the culprit, I guess: Content-Type: application/x-httpd-php

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:13:20 pm
content: Oh, wow, got a response on my first ticket about ssh (new server, as I guessed) and DynDNS (no more supported) - doesn't look good for their future with me.

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:17:14 pm
content: Nginx is a http proxy (that can additionally serve http requests). Highly likely they installed nginx as a reverse proxy to multiple backend http servers (apache or other) and got the configuration subtly wrong (or not 100% correct in all cases). From experience, this can be a pain to sort out, especially if they are not experienced with troubleshooting these types of setups.As a side note, this type of change can *usually* be tested reasonably thoroughly before rolling out the changes to the masses at large.Cheers,idQuote from: capt bullshot on November 07, 2017, 07:09:34 pm

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 02:25:40 pm
content: So, by chance I found a PHP related setting in the net Cloudpit Tool, randomly changing it made the main domain (http://wunderkis.de) work again. Other stuff still screwed up:ssh login to new server doesnt work due to "ssh: connect to host xxx port 22: Connection refused" - did someone forget to start sshd or didn't open port 22 through the firewall? WTFftp login works, but nothing more than the plain login, any attempt to actually access says "connection refused" - another firewall issue?CNAME records to point subdomains to another dyndns service (freedns.org) are not accessible although promised soThe CloutPit's link to set the SSH password (WTF password, I had public key auth previously) points to a 404That's where I stopped digging, wrote another support ticket, offered them to hire me as a beta tester

author: Mjolinor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 03:09:52 pm
content: Well 22 is open.rDNS record for 89.22.104.201: web125.dogado.netNot shown: 984 closed portsPORT STATE SERVICE21/tcp open ftp22/tcp open ssh25/tcp open smtp80/tcp open http110/tcp open pop3143/tcp open imap443/tcp open https465/tcp open smtps554/tcp open rtsp587/tcp open submission993/tcp open imaps995/tcp open pop3s1124/tcp filtered hpvmmcontrol3306/tcp open mysql7070/tcp open realserver8443/tcp open https-alt

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 03:16:47 pm
content: Quote from: Mjolinor on November 08, 2017, 03:09:52 pmRight, it is open now, apparently someone fixed it ...Still no login possible, I've set a password through their CloudPit Tool, but get "Permission denied, please try again."

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 08:00:46 pm
content: Ok, support gets somewhat more responsive, last answer within 5 hours, and some things fixed. Still not everything working as before, especially editing CNAME records isn't available and DynDNS appears not to be supported anymore - OK, there are others likehttp://freedns.afraid.org/(that I'm already using for fall-back), but I need to edit the CNAME records to point some subdomains there ...

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 08:39:17 pm
content: Afraid.org can have some limitations on free accounts. I have migrated to dns.he.net for all three of my domains.While you are at it, you may want to set up TLS using something free like Let’s Encrypt. TLS can protect both you and your visitors from some peeping Toms in ISPs.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 09:04:25 pm
content: Thanks, dns.he.net looks interesting, but afraid.org fulfilled all my needs. I'm already using TLS for my home based server (with self-signed certificates), not for the hosted content. That's because they didn't offer it until now. TLS (https) is one of the new features I still have to explore with their new service. I consider switching to a smallish virtual server, they also offer such stuff at about the same price. Moving my domain to something like dns.he.net or afraid.org is a new aspect, so I could get independent of their DNS configuration tools, which is quite limited now in comparison to what it has been before the migration.Where's your domain registered then?

author: kulla
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 10:33:38 pm
content: For the certificate use letsencrypt.org which is free.Regarding nginx, it cannot serve .php by default, php-fpm needs to be installed and running.It usually listens on port 9000 or unix socket and in configuration you need to have proxy pass for .php files to php-fpm server.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 07:40:58 am
content: Quote from: capt bullshot on November 08, 2017, 09:04:25 pmAll three of my domains are registered at GoDaddy and resolved at dns.he.net.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 07:59:06 am
content: Quote from: kulla on November 08, 2017, 10:33:38 pmOK, that's their desk, not mine, they've successfully resolved it yesterday.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 08:02:11 am
content: Did just a quick check: now there's the same 502 glitch available at my homepage that has been seen here at the forum from time to time ...

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 04:41:33 am
content: Quote from: technix on November 09, 2017, 07:40:58 amdon't do business with GoDaddy. There are many, many more reputable and reliable registrars out there.Quote from: capt bullshot on November 09, 2017, 08:02:11 amThis is a proxy timeout. Your nginx frontend is having timeouts while talking to your php backend. Have them make sure your php backend is still up and running? This is one of the issues they may not realize they've introduced by moving to their new architecture. In your old setup, since php was running through modphp on apache, you really didn't have to worry about these types of issues because it didn't have to go through a proxy connection. If apache was crashed by your php code, they just had to restart apache but the site wouldn't respond at all or give a connection refused or something. Most likely it just wrote the error in the error log and didn't crash apache at all and you saw a 500 error. Not sure whats going on with php-fpm, maybe it is crashing on an exception?

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 06:29:00 am
content: OK, the 502 was a unique glitch until now, I won't bother too much for the moment. Thanks for the technical explanation, that's quite new stuff for me.Found out why the browser wouldn't display my pages properly:After adding rsync myself to the server (I've asked the support to do so, but no response), I've re-synced the content with my local copy. Afterwards it was broken againFound the culprit in this line of .htaccess: "AddType application/x-httpd-php .htm .html" - Apparently I had to add this to make the old server work, but breaks the new setup.Seems the support fixed my .htaccess file due to my first complaint, but didn't tell me what they've done.

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 06:44:41 am
content: That is interesting. Would need to have a look at the configuration for your host specifically to see how theyve setup the proxy, but I'd imagine you don't need to trigger this via a .htaccess now. More importantly the .htaccess you setup previously was for Apache. Nginx doesn't like them:https://www.nginx.com/resources/wiki/start/topics/examples/likeapache-htaccess/Is your rsync messing with read/write permissions, like removing global reads? Nginx has a lot of problems trying to access paths with any part not globally readable or at least readable by the user running the nginx process. These will show up as 403s.Whats the error you are seeing after uploading the new files?Do you have shell access?

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 07:09:39 am
content: Yes, I've got a shell to a limited container, have access to logfiles, my content, but none of the configurations.I didn't experience problems with read permissions yet, but I'm aware of this so I'm always testing after syncing new files. With the old setup, I never had problems.To be clear: I had to remove the line "AddType ..." to make things work againI've seen a 403 on a URL that is supposed to show an automatic directory listing (the old apache setup was configured to allow this), not yet investigated or fixed.A quick "chmod -R ugo+r *" didn't fix it, so I guess I have to lookup the right directives to write into .htaccess. It's not my day job to maintain webpages, I've got a good understanding of how things work here, but for details I'll always have to look up them up. I just hate them now for this effort they put on me

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 07:52:26 am
content: Quote from: capt bullshot on November 10, 2017, 07:09:39 amAre your error logs telling you anything? I am so confused about how your .htaccess is affecting nginx, unless they specifically import it into the nginx config unless php-fpm is affected by your .htaccess file. Nginx shouldn't be using your .htaccess file at all.To enable directory listings (if nginx is the one serving the static content), you add an "autoindex: on" to the location directive in the config of the virtual host.Code:location /sample {autoindex: on;}I am really confused about what their intentions are. They are going to need to give you a way of modifying the configuration, I'd imagine, but I've never had to use nginx in a shared hosting environment. I've only seen Apache used in conjunction with htaccess and usually some sort of web-based server administration solution. Is this just a work in progress for them? If you had the time for the initial setup, you could probably get this up and running on your own vm on something like aws, google or a small cheap vps provider. You'd also have full root over the system, so you could lock down a lot of those open services to just your ip address. That type of setup wouldn't require a ton of maintenance. You could probably just run the updates on a cron job. And if you don't use anything more than apache, php, mysql, rsync and a few other services, it may not take a ton of time to setup either. But I can definitely understand the hesitation, especially if you can leave it to capable people to manage... But I am seriously :palm:ing at the way this hosting provider has handled this migration to nginx.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 08:03:20 am
content: Thanks for your agreement regarding the hoster. They just gave me access to the new CloutPit configuration tool and locked the old one with a fluffy annoucement a few days before.As I'm running a partial local copy of the content on a home based server, I'm familiar with root access, configuration and updating issues.So I'm considering to move the content to a low end (cost wise) virtual server with full root access and move the domains to a more flexible registrar / DNS provider. Having a fully managed webspace was just a conveniet thing, not expecting such trouble with a simple migration.BTW, some other content on the same rented webspace works flawlessly (it's based on WordPress or the like):http://world.wideweg.deThat's the part I'm a bit more concerned about: either I'd have to maintain this installation also, or should I hand the domain and content over to her to keep it anywhere she likes?

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 08:32:43 am
content: Quote from: capt bullshot on November 10, 2017, 08:03:20 amWell one thing that would be nice is wordpress runs on php and apache. So you'd really only have to deal with installing the db and the weird things wordpress might need like mods for apache or libgd or whatever since you already need apache and php to run your site. This installation is actually pretty simple. You just need to add what is missing, and a mysql database. Might be a bit tedious migrating the data away, but really should just be able to copy it to the new db. (dump to file, then run the dump on the new db)Not sure what hosting is like direct from wordpress, like if she has any weird plugins or if the domain can be pointed straight to it, but if you transferred the domain to an independent registrar you could just point it to any nameserver you or she wants. I use linode personally for server hosting and setup all of my DNS through them, and my registrar just points my domain at their name servers. I even setup a cron job on my router to implement my own dyndns functionality which updates an A record using linode's api. That solution could probably work for any dns provider you choose if they also have an API (and you can't use something like dyndns).Keep us updated on what you decide, and I (and surely others) would be willing to help you if you go down this route...

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 08:57:21 am
content: Quote from: idpromnut on November 07, 2017, 07:17:14 pmActually Nginx is a HTTP server that supports reverse proxy, it was written to address the 10K connection problem.QuoteIncorrect, I have a large client base using Nginx for Wordpress hosting without any issue. It simply outstrips Apache with resource utilization and performance.502 can be caused by two things1) If Nginx is configured as a reverse proxy, the 502 will be due to failure to communicate with the HTTP server behind it.2) If Nginx is the HTTP server with a dynamic handler like php-fpm, it will be due to a failure to communicate with php-fpm.You can determine which simply by checking if '.htaccess' is being used. If it works then you know you are being reversed proxied to another server, likely apache. If you are being reverse proxied ensure they have configured the proxy and HTTP server properly by forwarding the client's IP and using a module such as mod_rpaf or mod_remoteip to ensure it is logged and PHP uses it instead of the proxy server's IP. The easiest way to check is to run the following script:Code:<?PHPecho $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'];?>Be sure to test this under HTTPS also, checking that $_SERVER['HTTPS'] is also set as if they are terminating SSL on the reverse proxy PHP will assume no SSL unless they have catered for this.Serving out the index.php file directly is a pretty big error, they practically just gave away the source code to your website. Since your website looks fairly simple, if you have any hard coded passwords in that file I suggest you change them ASAP.If you are interested PM me, I am able to provide custom hosting of whatever you require, I own and operate servers in AU, EU and US that I can deploy to including cheap high performance VPS solutions with full root access.Edit: Actually looking at your content if you can provide more information I would be interested in sponsoring your hosting.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 10:59:55 am
content: Gnif, that's a great offer, I need some time to think about it and will send a PM.Dealing with nginx and the migration stuff requires some effort that I'm not amused about ... Well, it would be totally different if I initiated the migration.My content is quite simple by purpose, I'm doing a little bit of background tricks like having had subdomains pointing via CNAME and DynDNS to my home based server - this just worked fine with their old setup, but is gone now. Support is quite non-responsive regarding these issues. Depending on where I go to, my content can run as totally static html pages that I'm updating via ssh/rsync.Your test code appears to report the correct IP, see it here:http://wunderkis.de/test1.phpThe other persons content is Wordpress, appears to work.Edit: .htaccess is respected, https isn't configured (wasn't part of the old package).

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 04:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on November 10, 2017, 08:57:21 amThanks for the info. Haven't had to setup and run wordpress for a long time and may be conflating the apache usage with its reliance on mysql which also couldve changed since ive worked with it. But i also meant in terms of supporting php in apache with mod_php as opposed to using a service external to nginx like php-fpm... It is much simpler architecture to just remove the nginx -> php-fpm proxy step so no more 502s. I wouldn't want to make him support a solution he clearly doesn't want.Quote from: gnif on November 10, 2017, 08:57:21 amThose are really the same thing underneath the covers, I am not sure why you are choosing to distinguish them separately.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 04:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: chriswebb on November 10, 2017, 04:25:12 pmApache has never had any reliance on MySQL, mod_php does and if you're using that in this day and age you're just asking for trouble.Quote from: chriswebb on November 10, 2017, 04:25:12 pmIt helps narrow down the problems to know how it is setup, if it is reverse proxying and you're getting 502's it could be reverse proxying to a set of http servers were once of them has a fault, or network saturation issues.... etc. things that php-fpm wont generate 502's for.

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 05:03:21 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on November 10, 2017, 04:59:15 pmSorry I think that was because "it" had an unclear antecedent. Wordpress is what I was referring to with the dependency on mysql.Haha, shows how far away from the apache/php world I am. What replaced mod_php?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 05:33:51 pm
content: mod_php is still around, it just doesn't perform as well being tied into apache so tightly. Apache is already a horrible old klunker of a HTTP server, we moved most of our clients to Nginx years ago. Even this server is running Nginx with php-fpm, the difference is like night & day.

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2017, 05:52:46 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on November 10, 2017, 05:33:51 pmCompletely agree with the nginx decision, btw. Thats what I mandated at our company unless given a good reason to run apache. We bought a company for their clients that was using apache/mod_php with a bunch of spaghetti code and dependencies on various services. It was forced to restart apache once a night due to some bug they could never figure out actually affecting apache. I just shook my head as I deleted their codebase. Not really sure how they did that to apache unless they were only running on one apache process, but I wasn't going to spend anytime finding out. Nginx has never given me any problems once I understood how to set it up correctly. So definitely highly recommend nginx as well!

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 01:57:50 pm
content: So, some time passed by, the hoster made a few attempts to fix things - with little success:They claimed to give me rsync access some days after I'd done this myself - yes it works - because I've done it myself (I just copied a rsync binary to their server and modified the path)Managing subdomains isn't supported in their cloudpit panel, or doesn't work, their solution was: Tell us what you want to have us to configure ... Response from support takes some days.In the meantime, I've done some testing on a small debian based server located at home in expectation of the new VPS where my homepage is supposed to go to.Left out apache, started right away with debian 9, nginx, php7 and mariadb:It's all a bit different than apache, but in general simpler (and if something appears not to be possible with nginx, just proxy to apache somewhere else) - not a big deal at all.Wordpress works out of the box, my other content needed a few simple tweaks to nginx's configuration (e.g. treating .html pages as php).So my conclusion is: Move everything away from them

author: kulla
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 03:31:52 pm
content: Let me know if you need help in migrating or setting it up again.Apache is dinosaurus at this stage, it works, but nginx is better on so many fronts.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 04:28:09 pm
content: Quote from: chriswebb on November 10, 2017, 04:41:33 amWould you go a little further and explain why you say that about GoDaddy? I have had services with them for 15 years with very few problems and problems resolved very quickly when they do occur.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 04:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: tpowell1830 on November 23, 2017, 04:28:09 pmThey screwed over a lot of customers. Especially if you have hosting together with domain. For example, if they receive DMCA claim, very likely terminate all your account, no questions asked. Even if you had, say, 50 domains, you will loose them all. They will completely restrict access, no data, no backups, no nothing.