Proxxon bench drill TBM-220 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 11:28:13 pm
content: Anyone here use this unit for PCB drilling?http://www.proxxonworld.com.au/product/bench_drill_tbm_220_220-240vIs it well built and stable enough to drill reliably and smoothly with carbide bits?Also the 10 minute on/off 50% duty cycle is a bit of a concern. I wonder if that was specified as an afterthought after owners started toasting inadequately engineered motors.Thanks

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 07:23:48 am
content: Well I bought one, along with the accessory additional chuck. I did a search and comments from the few users around that use this unit for PCB drilling reported that it is satisfactory.

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:02:15 am
content: I have one. It's OK. Very stable, nice and smooth action and rather good build. Please don't judge but I also love the smell of the belt (yeah, it's belt driven and you can change speeds).Of course, you absolutely need good bits to drill the PCBs.I'm also using it with the KT70 X-Y table as a poor man milling machine/router. For simple plastic and wood stuff is sufficient.I used to praise Proxxon a lot, but I'm a bit unsatisfied about the quality of the latest stuff I've bought from them.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:40:00 am
content: Good to hear that the drill is OK. How hot does the motor get? I hope it really is the belt, rather than the motor that makes the smell

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 11:56:13 am
content: Quote from: GK on November 27, 2014, 10:40:00 amI don't think that there is a problem when the motor is running empty or drilling casually for large periods of time. I didn't noticed any particular heating problem when working with large PCBs (half hour use ~ some hundred holes to drill?)I've been a bit rough on it when used as a router to make some holes in aluminium panels and it got hot, that's for sure. But again, it was a rather tough 3mm panel with large holes; up to 10 minutes of cutting time per opening. It went OK.Cheers

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 12:42:11 pm
content: I prefer a higher rpm rate and use:-http://www.proxxonworld.com.au/product/precision_mill_drill_tool_micromot_50_e_12v_dc-http://www.proxxonworld.com.au/product/drill_stand_mb_140_s

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 02:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 27, 2014, 12:42:11 pmI have bought both of them for work. That stand really disappointing me. It had rough motion and the plastic bit on the handle screwed on the wrong end. Plus, it sways in the gentle breeze of your breath. I'm joking about the last part, but you got the idea.Plus, that Micromot tool is IMHO a bit under powered for drilling PCBs if you don't have the adequate drill bit. The 12V transformer doesn't help too much as well. I use them on 18V from time to time.

author: ttt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 02:32:27 pm
content: I use this generic chinese mini drill press (DR300), it's about half the price:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MINI-DRILL-PRESS-BENCH-COMPACT-JEWELRY-HOBBY-CRAFTS-TOOL-3-SPEEDS-MAX-8500-RPM-/181449527822Adjustable speed and works just fine for PCB drilling with carbide PCB drill bits. It runs fine for 20+ minutes at a time. Likely deal breakers: it's 110V only, more noisy and does not include any vise. Build quality is so so, but it's beats a Dremel in a stand hands down stability wise.Sales pitch and demo:I recommend to get a XY compound table and compatible vise(s) suitable for PCBs if you for instance drill long rows of pin headers. A good one will cost you about the same as the drill press itself.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 03:03:46 pm
content: i'm using proxxon MB-140/S drill stand + FBS 240/E drill + kt70 cross table , in addition to the FBS240 drill i have a micromot 50/E drill as well.i'm more than happy with the tools

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 04:40:46 pm
content: I have a Proxxon MF70 micro milling machine, and it's a very good machine for precision drilling. It also works really well for cutting veroboard traces.

author: timcki
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 05:48:51 pm
content: I use a proxxon "Drill stand MB 140/S". I had an old Black and Decker version of a dremel tool ..... used that and voila!! PCB drill press.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:06:25 pm
content: I have had a TBM 220 for a couple of years now. Does the job very well. I find that 8500rpm (fastest belt setting) is more than adequate for drilling with carbide bits.The only con I have found is that (on my unit) the cast iron base doesn't stand exactly flat. One of the "feet" (if you could call them that) is a tad shorter than others, so it needs support under it when I'm using it. But that's just my unit, I'm sure yours won't have this problem.

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 12:39:19 am
content: for the guys in the uk these look goodhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271564625285

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 06:41:00 am
content: I haven't seen this drill in action, but I have used my friends FBS240 on a MB140 stand and it's and awesome piece of kit. We've measured runout at a ~0.005m but it may not necessarily be representative since the drill was being used for several years before the measurement. Anyway - we've used 0.25mm carbide drills without bigger problems.Proxxon tools are very high quality, but bit pricey in hobby category (at least in Eastern-European economical setting).

author: Stupid Username
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 29, 2014, 07:23:34 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on November 28, 2014, 06:41:00 amI own Proxxon FBS240 & MB140 and I'm pleased with it, price is not that bad (even for a student from far eastern part of Poland). A set of hardened drills like this onewill last you forever if you're just doing hobby PCB work.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2014, 07:59:15 pm
content: Dude, your nickname is really bad. Not a fan of Catholic Church either, quite the opposite, but ur nickname is pushing it too far.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 10:52:40 am
content: I picked this thing up from the post office this morning and drilled my first board with it this afternoon. The base of mine is nice and flat though I found a couple of big blobs of blu-tack necessary to stop the unit drifting across the bench top (I don't have a space ATM to permanently bolt it down). It seems a well built, solid and sturdy unit, though it does get quite hot with prolonged use. The enclosed motor isn't properly ventilated and the cast aluminum body acts as a heatsink. After 15-20 minutes of continuous PCB drilling at the highest RPM gearing the body of the drill was too hot to comfortably hang on to.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 05:25:27 pm
content: As hobbyist, I use a cheap drill like this to drill holes of 0.8 mm at 2620 rpm.No problem at all.http://www.promobutler.be/fr/magasins/Hubo/foreuse-sur-colonne-pow-302-1153026

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 07:20:36 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on December 02, 2014, 05:25:27 pmi'm considering a similar cheap drill for larger diameters (3 mm diameter and higher) and for sure those are good for small diameters as well, but if someone has the budget, then a proxxon (separate drill + stand) is a better choice because the speed upto 20k RPM is good for drilling, engraving, cutting, grinding...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 07:43:19 pm
content: I believe Lady Ada has the TBM220 and they were singing praises about it.I have the Micromot tool + the MB140 stand as I wanted a bit more universal (and cheaper machine), because I am not drilling boards all that much to justify a dedicated drill press. Moreover, the Micromot goes up to 20000 rpm (the mains powered version, there are 12V versions too!). This combo is surprisingly good. The mounting collar for the Micromot looks a bit flimsy, but it is fairly steady, no wobble, vibrations, nothing while in use. Bigto German workmanship here!The only stupid design mistake on the MB140 stand is the lever that releases the Micromot spindle from the collar - it frequently drops down and gets in the way while you are lowering the tool down about to drill. Nothing that a rubber band won't fix, though.I have been to BHV store in Paris where they have a large section dedicated to these "hobby" power tools from Proxxon and Dremel, you can even try them out there. The plasticky, crappy Dremel accessories are really no contest when compared with the Proxxon gear - and the prices are not that much higher. If you need a good tool and have the money, you won't be disappointed, IMO.The larger gear like the lathe or the milling machine - I am not sure how good deal those are. For the prices they are selling them for you can likely get a used full sized machine off eBay ... But I am pretty sure that they are well made as well.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 09:21:23 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 02, 2014, 07:43:19 pmthere is an extremely simple and elegant solutionsee attached pic.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2014, 09:22:36 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 02, 2014, 09:21:23 pmNot a bad idea, although it will probably get annoying if you are removing the spindle often. Maybe a wingnut would be better? Have to test it on mine.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2014, 09:33:04 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 02, 2014, 07:20:36 pmCareful with the Proxxon Micromot tools - they don't take larger than 3.2mm bits. I think the TBM 220 can take larger bits up to 6mm with the optional chuck, but that costs extra. You can perhaps find larger bits with a 3mm shank, but I don't recommend doing that - the hardware isn't built for it and you will wear the expensive machine out very quickly.If you need to drill larger than 3mm, you will likely want a full sized drill stand, not one of these model-sized ones - the larger bits needs quite a bit more oomph to cut properly and also much stronger structure because of the forces involved. I have a regular electric drill for the occasional larger hole - I pre-drill on the drill stand a smaller pilot hole and then hand drill the large one. However, if you need it more often, then a drill stand/dedicated machine is, of course, better.

author: StanleyAdams
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 03, 2014, 05:38:08 pm
content: I use a cordless Dremel with the 220 drill press stand. You'll read reviews that the stand is not stable, precise etc. I've never found any of it to be true true. Though it may have problems with the corded rotary tools. It works quite well for PCB drilling and is as precise as you will be. The proxxons are supposedly very good as well. If you're going to use any of these make sure you get good carbide or hard metal drill bits. Most thin HSS bits break very often which is annoying.I use these:http://www.banzaimusic.com/Hard-metal-drill-0-8mm.html

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2014, 07:52:27 pm
content: Quote from: StanleyAdams on December 03, 2014, 05:38:08 pmIf your HSS bits break, that only means that either you aren't drilling straight, you are using too low RPM or the stand is vibrating too much, putting too much lateral strain on the bit. For PCB drilling carbide is better, but only because it won't dull as fast as HSS. I am using regular HSS bits in my Proxxon stand and never had one break so far.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2014, 08:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 03, 2014, 09:22:36 amyou would need a screw with wings for that .. it's easier to put a M6 socket head screw there and have a Hex/Allen key handy.. btw you need the Allen key anyway to release the tilt locking screw.

author: StanleyAdams
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 03, 2014, 11:54:39 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 03, 2014, 07:52:27 pmI'm neither using too slow RPM, I use it at almost the fastest setting, if not the fastest. Nor am I putting too much lateral force, otherwise the hard metal drills would break as well. They brake when I ever so slightly jerk the PCB when the drill has not yet left the hole, and it happens from time to time. Now, maybe it's the quality of the HSS ones I've used, but even finding reputable brand 0.8 ones is hard. I've been using the same hard metal bit for years. Bought two of each size I use. And haven't broken one ever. No problem. No reason to even consider a HSS one for pcb drilling again.

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2014, 02:39:10 am
content: I have a unit which looks very similar, model TBM-115, likely the same tool made for US line power. This is an excellent drill, solid German design (and mine is made in Luxemburg) , very popular among jewelers . TIR of the spindle is better than anything I have seen in this price range, i't won't break 0.1mm carbide bit and can likely be used with smaller bits as well but I haven't tried. It is also tiny and sits under the bench until I need it - the main reason I bought it since I keep my bench Jim Williams style' and anything of value must be kept out of it lest it will be lost forever.It is good for precision work only - PCB, #0-2 taps and such. You can drill up to 3mm in aluminum, but only as a last resort. It will do it but you have to be patient.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2014, 03:32:12 am
content: Quote from: mazurov on December 04, 2014, 02:39:10 amI can't help observing that TBM is a common abbreviation for Tunnel Boring Machine. But it would seem that the TBM-115 can't quite make holes this big:

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2014, 09:07:35 am
content: Quote from: StanleyAdams on December 03, 2014, 11:54:39 pmYou must be using poor quality HSS bits. I've had this problem myself and so have others:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/now-i-have-a-reason-to-hate-jaycar-even-more/msg283150/#msg283150In comparison to a decent quality HSS bit, however, it is in fact the carbide bits that are the ones that are easy to break with a little lateral force. I now only buy quality HSS bits from RUKO. For normal PCB drilling operations these are next to impossible to snap and are my preference for drilling phenolic PCB. I hate it when I snap a ~$5 carbide bit. So far I've drilled these three boards with a single RUKO HSS bit and it is still as sharp as when I started:I only use the fragile carbide bits for fiberglass board, as the HSS bits don't last.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2014, 12:53:30 pm
content: I'm quite happy with the Bungard drill bits und I drill mostly FR4 with my 50/E. The drill bits I commonly use are 0.6/0.8 for standard throughhole components and 0.9/1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3 for connectors, large caps, power semiconductors and so on.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 02:43:07 am
content: Get the MB140 stand with the rotary tool. It's much more versatile and can do a lot more than a fixed drill press. You don't need lots of pressure drilling PCB and a detachable rotary tool saves you space.I am very happy with my setup.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 03:32:57 pm
content: Re bad bits:I didn't believe it when my dad has shown me these "HSS" bits from a local supermarket after a bit of light use:Yeah, those bits are actuallybent. You can get even such "quality"

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 03:37:17 pm
content: Can't say I've ever bent a bit. I've bent the drive shaft on a supermarket drill, though. Visible runout on the chuck itself is a sight to behold.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 04:06:56 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 06, 2014, 03:37:17 pmIf you manage to bend a bit it means the steel wasn't hardened at all, i.e. the you have a soft piece of wire and not a drill bit. Basically a piece of shit not fit for the intended purpose. Hardened steel wouldn't bend but would snap instead.I guess your stores aren't buying the worst and cheapest Chinese-made junk and trying to sell it as high-quality product where you live. The ones in Slovakia do, unfortunately, because people look only at the price.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 10:08:45 pm
content: yeah, the cheap drill bits bend when drilling to tough materials - those are only good for drilling into soft plastic materialsfor real work it's better (and at the end of the day cheaper) to buy more expensive quality drill bits.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:40:09 pm
content: Man, those bits must be really bad if they break so easily. Here, where i live you can get a set of carbide bits for a couple of bucks.A pair of 0,8mm carbide bits will only cost you one dollar and those aren't any cheapo bits, they're great bits, really sharp and can stand alot of twisting and bending, they just spring back like nothing happened.How's prices in your local hardware shops ?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:43:27 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on December 06, 2014, 11:40:09 pm... Tungsten carbide is very, very stiff. It does not spring. It snaps.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:46:53 pm
content: The carbide is only on the cutting edges at the tip of the drill. The drill itself is still made of steel.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on December 06, 2014, 11:46:53 pmCarbide drills tend to be solid carbide.The exception is impact tooling.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:01:43 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 06, 2014, 11:43:27 pmHmm, really? Those little buggers seem to drill through anything...( except concrete )

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:04:06 am
content: A normal steel bit will drill through anything softer than itself.This includes fibreglass, normal steels, aluminium, copper, brass, and cheese.Try and put a hole into a 12.9 or so bolt head with one. If it's steel it'll fail horribly, if it's carbide, it'll go through. Either way it's going to get really, really hot.E: Oh, and don't buy '12.9' bolts from the same place you buy those drills, eh?

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:29:19 am
content: Don't do it, it will be a painful experience, after having to cut a lot of 12.9 M14 an M16 bolts all I can say is that they chew through cutting disks that is not even funny, drilling them, only in a milling machine with some horses in the spindle I would say.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 03:02:11 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 07, 2014, 12:04:06 amI just made 5 small grinding quills for a customer and I used 12.9 socket head cap screw shanks (170,000 psi yield) for the material. I used high cobaltsteeldrills to drill a .024" diameter hole .531" long thru the center for coolant flow. Not easy but very doable.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 03:08:52 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on December 07, 2014, 03:02:11 amI should note I define 'normal' as HSS, or even carbon for DIYers. Cobalt steel is a rather tougher beast.If you can pull that off with an HSS bit, I'll chew on my hat a bit.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 06:25:19 am
content: If I drill 316 stainless steel I budget one HSS drill bit per hole. Cobalt steel 1 bit per hundred holes. Over 5 holes the cobalt steel is cheaper. One nasty job it was 5 cobalt steel bits per hole, as the Bastid who made this particular plate had work hardened it so much, so the bits would catch on a hard spot and shatter. thankfully did not break the M5 tap on cutting the new thread into it. The original thread was 5 turns in and poorly formed. I went all the way through.At least it was not the other machine with some really tough incalloy. Basically laughs at any drill bit or file, you use grinding or carbide bits on it only. Carbide taps are expensive. That has a wear plate that is hardened to 65 Rockwell C on it. It wears the other side though.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2015, 10:24:56 am
content: Getting back to the TBM-220 itself - another recommendation from a happy purchaser.I haven't used it for the intendeddrilling PCBs yet as I'm in the process of building my new workshop. As a result of this I've been using it to drill 4mm holes in 3mm think mild steel and 2mm think stainless angle iron. The little drill coped very well, although can be stalled. The chuck is fine. However the included chuck key is a load of rubbish. A small complaint though.