Ersa i-Con 'Nano' and 'Nano' Mk2 differences? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2024, 05:28:52 pm
content: I'm wondering if I should pull the trigger and get a proper soldering station to replace my soldering iron, and an ESD-safe one at that.I suppose it should allow me to solder even SMD components (which I've never done before).i'm a hobbyist, so I neither need (or want to spend on) professional equipment.Previous discussions here suggest theErsa i-con Nanoover other brands and models. On Ersa's website there's ani-Con Nano Mk2which I assume is a replacement for the (non Mk2 version).(image source for 'Nano Mk2':Tequipment)(image source for original Nano:Amazon.com)I have no experience with either, and according to the specs they're pretty much the same (correct me if I'm wrong) except for perhaps a new 'tip & turn' tip changing feature. If I can choose between the two (old model and the new 'Mk2'), are there any downsides or improvements I should consider? Do they both accept the same tips?From the two photos above it seems the older model has a backlit LCD display which the Mk2 doesn't. Is that correct?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2024, 09:59:54 pm
content: There does not seem to be much info about them other than the tip has the quick connect, which you mentioned.But you haven't described anything, what is your budget? Intended soldering applications?icon nano =https://www.tequipment.net/Ersa/i-CON-NANO/Soldering-Stations/- 80W- series 102 tipsicon nano mk2 =https://www.tequipment.net/Ersa/i-CON-NANO-MK2/Soldering-Stations/- 68W- series 142 tipsKind of odd they are saying the mk2 has 20% more power but it has less power rating?

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 09:05:32 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 12, 2024, 09:59:54 pmSometimes "innovations" and "improvements" often turn out to be "sales gimmicks" and in the end takes away something that worked better in a previous version. Maybe someone who's used both versions can chime in?I don't have any specific budget, and am at the moment just looking into what's out there and am considering cost thereafter. I understand you get what you pay for, but I don't want to overpay.Also, I don't see any reason to buy gear meant for professional, heavy, everyday use with features I'd never use. This is just a hobby, but I want something well built, reliable and enjoyable to use.Initially theErsa RDS-80looked to be a good buy, but looking back to previous discussions and not having ESD-protection I think it's not a contender. TheErsa i-Con Picoalso looked good at first, until I read about the missing ESD-protection also there and "cheap" build according to forum discussions.Then there are offering from Hakko for instance which have been discussed before, such as the FX-888D, and various Weller units. But from what I've read in these discussions it seems the Ersa i-Con Nano usually comes out as a better buy overall.At the same time I'm having trouble finding out where to buy Ersa products here in Norway. I've only found one dealer (and expensive at that) selling locally. I could order online from Germany etc. but usually that would incur (often unpredictable) import duties/taxes, and if damaged I'd probably have to pay for expensive return shipping and possibly repay import taxes on the replacement item.Weller is a brand sold many places on the other hand, but the reviews/comments here haven't impressed me.But I digress... I really just wanted to know if the "Nano Mk2" was worthwhile and comparable to all the (mostly very favourable) reviews and comments for the previous model.QuoteYes, but it reminds me of a recent vacuum cleaner purchase where I noticed all the current models (even high-end brands) had rather impressive W-ratings. I was told that due to EU environment-regulations the manufacturers are forced to bring those down, and that high W-ratings in the past was often a sales-gimmick, giving the impression that more Watts would mean better performance while in reality they weren't as affective. While many current models do away with less Watts but more efficiency due to better design. There may be some truth to that, and also to this particular soldering station, but again it would be nice to hear from someone who's used them both.Then again it's highly confusing with these specs, because even on theErsa web page for the i-Con Nano Mk2it says 80W in the title while in the "Technical data" further down the page it says 68W. And to confuse things even more, if you click on the "Download" tab further down the page and click onDatasheet i-Con Nano Mk2it there says 80W in the "technical data" section. What gives?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:38:02 am
content: Don’t read anything into that contradiction; it’s just Ersa’s long-term inability to decide how they want to market the wattage.I’ve complained about Ersa’s inconsistent power ratings for the better part of a decade now, e.g.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ersa-i-con2v-hands-on-teardown-and-mini-review/msg1178220/#msg1178220Anyway, as someone who has a Mk1 i-Con nano at home, used Mk1 i-Con 1 and 2 at my previous workplace, and chose a Mk2 i-Con 2V for my current workplace: they’re all good.There is no hardware difference between Mk1 and Mk2 stations other than the color of the front panel. (The station firmware doesn’t even say Mk2 on the display.) They are completely forwards and backwards compatible with the handpieces. (Ersa says this, but I have tested it: the regular (not nano) iTool Mk1 and Mk2 handpieces both work perfectly on both Mk1 and Mk2 stations. They show up on the screen as simply iTool.) I assume this is the case with the nano, too, but I have no way to test it.I would definitely go for the Mk2 because the bayonet-lock tips (series 142) are much easier to switch than the screw-lock series 102, and additionally, they are actually cheaper! With the 102, you really have to spend another 6 euro to buy a collar for each tip, so the price of a tip is really its retail price plus 6 euro. The 142 tips have the locking collar permanently attached, but perversely, often cost a bitlessthan the 102 tip (without the collar!!).You cannot mix tip generations; a Mk2 handpiece must use 142 tips, a Mk1 handpiece must use 102 tips.Ersa claims the Mk2 have 20% better performance than Mk1 due to improved heater and tip design; that may be so, but in normal everyday use I can’t tell the difference — both perform well.The i-Con nano does not have a backlight, which actually annoys me enough at home that I added my own backlight to it. This, and the rear-mounted power switch, annoy me just enough that in retrospect, I wish I’d just bought an i-Con 1 instead. (I also prefer the rotary encoder for setting temperature rather than buttons, but that’s a matter of taste.)I know that Elfa-Distrelec fundamentally sells Ersa, and may be able to order a station for you. They have 142 series tips in stock at reasonable prices.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:49:09 am
content: QuoteYes, the only power difference is between full spec stations (running heater at 24V) and lower end nano/pico (16.5v). Full spec stations can push about 150W for a short time.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:58:48 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2024, 10:49:09 amIndeed.In practice, only when soldering very large masses does one notice the difference, though! The extra power is welcome when soldering things like coaxial jacks to 4-layer PCBs with ground planes. For most other things, the power needed is far less than the nano/pico’s capabilities. The choice of tip is more important.P.S. ILOVEthe 2.4mm asymmetrical chisel tip (0142CDLF24A or 0102CDLF24A, the key being the A at the end). It’s just fantastic at getting heat in with its chunky profile. It’s become my daily-driver tip.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 11:16:15 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2024, 10:58:48 amThose are really great at heat transfer. Although not as versatile as regular chisel.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 11:18:09 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2024, 11:16:15 amI mean… I guess so? But I can’t think of any situation where a regular 2.4mm chisel worked and this one wouldn’t have.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 11:38:07 am
content: Sometimes it's not possible to reach tighter spaces. Say if you have 2 row 2.54mm connector, you cannot decently use this positioned from between of the rows. Nearby pin row will obstruct the tip if you put it under angle to reach the corner in between of pin/pad. If you position it more vertically, it will barely touch pin/pad. Also it's not good for soldering wires.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 02:20:31 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2024, 11:38:07 amSure, but typically, where the stubby 2.4mm chisel won’t fit, the regular 2.4mm chisel doesn’t fit much better. Either way, a smaller tip is needed.Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2024, 11:38:07 amIt’sgreatfor soldering wires! I just did a bunch with it yesterday.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 03:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2024, 02:20:31 pmI can assure you I soldered 10s of thousands of 2-row header solder joints with regular 0102CDLF24 2.4mm chisel with no obstruction issues and with 0102CDLF24A I need to rotate the board 180oto do both rows without too much pain.QuoteMaybe for tiny ones but for larger wires there is too little surface.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 09:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on September 13, 2024, 09:05:32 amYes I would not buy those weller or hakko over ersa.There is also thermaltronics, metcal, and JBC, but some are harder to source in europe.QuoteSo you seem to be quite concerned about the cost, but still not given a budget figure

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 03:56:20 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2024, 03:56:30 pmFor larger wires, I just use a larger tip (like a 5mm chisel).

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 08:29:54 pm
content: At work we have Ersa stations as well and the backside power switch annoyed me instantly.This is a “No - why??“

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2024, 10:38:02 amQuoteGood to know in case I come across a cheap "old stock" Mk1 Nano, or a used one.I personally prefer the original front panel; the Mk2 appears "cheaper" made, and I don't understand why they even kept the up/down buttons black -almost like they wanted to camouflage them.QuoteStrange, but good to know about running usage costs like that.At the same time it's frustrating that companies don't standardize on things like this and go for one series for all their soldering irons.With that in mind, are the newer 142 series likely to "take over" and thus become easier to get hold of, and eventually the series 102 will become obsolete and gone? Or is there already such a big market for 102 series tips that these will continue to be sold?QuoteSo the decision between the original and Mk2 model of the Ersa Nano comes down to which handpiece I choose. And that again comes down to which tip-series I want to go for.QuoteIrritating about the missing backlight.How did you add a backlight to it?Is it a matter of just opening it up, disconnecting the existing LCD's cable and attach a new pin-pin compatible LCD which does have a built-in backlight?I suppose it's more of an irritation the more frequently you use it, but for occasional hobby use it's probably OK (even though I'm sure the manufacturer could easily have solved both issues without much increase in cost).I looked up the Ersa i-Con 1 (Mk2) and compared to the Nano (Mk2) the price difference here is around 150 Euros and it's probably not justifiable (in my case) to pay the extra cost.On the other hand I understand that the i-Con 1 can have other tools attached to it, than just the soldering iron, right? I've always struggled with desoldering, but all I can find for the i-Con 1 Mk2 are "desoldering tweezers". Not sure if that's for some special purposes....Maybe, with a quality soldering solution (i.e. Ersa Nano Mk2) and suitable tips, even desoldering with a cheap desoldering pump will do wonders compared to now!I see that there are many replacement tips available (within both 142- and 102-series), but little information available on which tip is suited for which task.Most of my soldering consists of through-hole components, small wires and connectors and desoldering through-hole components.And for some current project ideas I may need to solder SMD ICs for the first time.I've always thought the idea was to use a thin pencil-point soldering tip, but maybe it would be better to exchange tips according to task instead of a "one tip for everything" solution -especially if I upgrade from a simple soldering iron to my first soldering station!QuoteElfa-Distrelec are generally considered expensive, and sell mostly to the professional market (which probably explains the not-so competitive prices, but then again most of this stuff isn't commonly available anyway).It appears that they only have the old Nano model available, but I found the Nano Mk2 at Farnell for the same price. Other than that I can't find them sold anywhere locally. I'm also looking at the used market, but Ersa doesn't seem very common. Weller appears easier (and cheaper) to find, but I'm trusting the reviews here and Ersa seems the way to go.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 05:36:32 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmI prefer the silver fronts, too, but in the end it makes no functional difference whatsoever.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmWho knows how that came to be. Bear in mind that I was looking at retail prices, not the wholesale prices, so we don't know whether the discrepancy is Ersa's fault or not.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmLet's not be ridiculous. Ersa introduced the 102 series tips with the original i-Con station in 2006 or 2007, and used it across the entire series until late 2021, when the i-Con trace (a weird, special station for production) introduced the 142 series. In July of last year, they upgraded the rest of the i-Con line to Mk2, which switched them all to series 142. I do not consider 18-19 years of tip consistency to be non-"standardized"!Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmHow is this a question?!? Series 142 replaces series 102, in that the Mk2 modelsreplacethe Mk1 models. It's not as though Ersa is keeping Mk1 for sale alongside Mk2. (Other than as spare parts.) Given Ersa's history, and18 years' worth of existing Mk1 stations, I expect 102 tips to be widely available for many years to come. But there's no reason to start out now with 102, since it has no advantages over 142.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmRight. But as I said, there is zero reason to begin with 102 tips now. The only reason to get a Mk1 handpiece now is if you already had a big collection of 102 tips. For someone starting out fresh, it makes no sense to go with 102.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmI installed some 3mm white LEDs with series resistors to side-light the LCD. Because it was still under warranty at the time -- and because I didn't have another soldering station handy anyway -- I just press-fit the wires into some convenient vias or something. It's not super bright. I should probably redo it now that the warranty is over, soldered in with brighter LEDs, or maybe I can even find a backlight module that would fit.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmThe LCD in the nano/pico is a custom LCD, with pins, soldered into the PCB. There is no such thing as a pin-compatible replacement. (I vaguely recall that maybe there were even PCB pads for a backlight. It's possible they envisioned it but then left it out.)Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmIt is if it sits in a place where it is brightly lit. In my case, it's under a little shelf, so kinda annoying. One of the downsides to the non-backlit display is that it's REALLY easy to leave it on by mistake.I bought my nano as a hobbyist for infrequent use, but now, 10 years later, I wish I'd just gotten the bigger one. Over the 20+ years I'll probably own it, an extra 150 euros works out to, like, 7 euros per year.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmNo. The i-Con 1 (Mk1 and Mk2) and i-Con 2 (never sold as Mk2) workonlywith the standard i-Tool Mk1 and i-Tool Mk2 handpieces. It does NOT support tweezers or anything else.i-Con 1V and 2V stations (and the original 2006/2007 i-Con station that had no numbers at all) support tweezers as well as a number of older handpieces the Ersa catalog no longer lists.The i-Con Vario stations support additional tools like hot air and vacuum, but one has to shop VERY carefully for the station model with the integrated air and/or vacuum pumps one needs.A few months ago, I posted an overview of compatibility, with various Ersa compatibility tables (from different years) that, combined, give the complete compatibility:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ersa-desoldering-station/msg5472376/#msg5472376Note that (other than as a spare part), Ersa no longer sells the external vacuum pump that was previously used to give desoldering iron ("X-tool") compatibility with non-Vario stations. That's why the X-tools are no longer listed as compatible, even though they sort-of are.Note that I am not a big fan of Ersa's desoldering tools, even though the current one has really high power. I don't like the way the vacuum is generated, I don't care for the shape, but more importantly, the selection of desoldering tips is small and VERY expensive, and the consumable filters are extremely expensive. (I chose Pace at home, and at work I have an old Weller that also works well. I've also used Den-On, which is excellent but $$$. The big brands whose desoldering tools I've never used are Metcal, JBC and Hakko.)Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmDesoldering tweezers are for desoldering SMD components with two rows of pins/pads, like chip resistors and capacitors, SOICs, SOTs, and D-Paks. Some tweezers even have tips to desolder square components like QPFs.I have desoldering tweezers at work (on an older Pace station), and only very rarely use them. Super handy for some situations, but unless you do frequent SMD repairs professionally, I would not spend the money for them. Even at work, if I only need to desolder a chip resistor or two, I'll just do it with a blob of solder on the iron, or I'll pull out the second normal i-Tool iron and use one iron in each hand. Only if I have a bunch of them, or larger things like the SOICs, will I pull the Pace out of the cabinet.For hobby use, I would much, much sooner invest in a cheap hot air station, which is a far more versatile tool than desoldering tweezers, and a tool where quality isn't nearly as critical since hot air is inherently imprecise. I have a cheap "858" style hot air station at home and it works well.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmA cheap desoldering pump belongs in the trash. Especially if you're going to rely on a manual desoldering pump, then it should be a good one. The Edsyn Soldapullt series is often considered the gold standard. Their main models are quite large, which gives them a lot of suction, but cannot be re-armed with your thumb (people press the plunger against the table or their thigh). Another favorite is the Engineer SS-20, which is a tiny little thing that easily fits in one hand, so not a huge volume of air, but with a silicone tip (a short length of silicone hose) that gives it better control over where its suction is applied. That's the one I used until I got a vacuum desoldering system at home. I suspect that any desoldering pump could be improved by adding a short length of silicone hose to its tip. An Edsyn + silicone tube might be the killer combination.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmAs you can see from my minor disagreement with wraper in this thread, a significant part of tip choice is personal preference. With that said, I (and many others) do not understand why anyone uses pencil tips; they're not better atanything. I suspect many companies include them with their irons because they're cheap to make. Ersa includes a much more sensible 1.6mm chisel tip with every i-Tool handpiece. That's a great everyday tip. Tips with one (or more) flat sides just give you more surface with which to make good thermal contact.When I got my new i-Con 2V at work, I was allowed to get a bunch of tips, so I got a selection of about 20 different ones. I chose them with the full knowledge that most of them will not be used frequently, with the vast majority of jobs done with just a few. Those have been the 2.4mm stubby ("asymmetrical") chisel, the 4.6mm stubby chisel, the 0.8mm stubby chisel, the 1.6mm chisel, and the PLCC blade (which is a supe-versatile tip). Of those, the 2.4mm and 4.6mm stubby chisels, and the 1.6mm standard chisel, are by far the ones I use the most. But depending on the job, I definitely use the other tips! For example, I have used the 10mm chisel for quickly soldering big, heavy banana connectors, and the 0.4mm chisel to get into tiny spaces to tidy up a single SMD pin.(That's something that's nice about modern, high-power handpieces like the i-Tool: despite being small, they can accept quite large tips and heat them. So one handpiece is very versatile.)If I had been under a tighter budget constraint, I would have left out a number of intermediate tip sizes. For a hobbyist, I would certainly not get a huge collection in advance. Start with the basics and then add more as you encounter situations that proved challenging.What will be new to you, if you're coming from a basic soldering iron, is the ability to quickly change tips, even while the iron is hot. (Turn off the station before switching tips! If, for whatever reason, you start to put another, cold tip onto the heater and don't finish it quickly, the heater can very quickly overheat and potentially fail. Better to just flip it off, put on the other tip, and then switch back on. It takes only seconds to heat up.) So you no longer need to think about a "one size fits all" tip for the job, but rather match the tip to the joint. At home with my nano, I'll try to do all the similar joints on a board before switching tips to do all of a different group of similar joints. At work, I have two handpieces but normally keep only one connected. But if I know a job will have different joints that need different tips, I will connect the second handpiece so I can easily switch between them.Quote from: analogix on September 15, 2024, 01:37:38 pmBut their prices for Ersa aren't particularly expensive, and my main point was that they have the 142 tips (the only real consumable with a soldering iron), and have them at a decent price. Who cares who they "mostly" sell to? You only care whether they will sell a particular item to you.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 12:24:39 pm
content: Oh, I just remembered one other difference between the nano/pico and the "big" i-Con stations: how standby* works.On the big ones, the handpiece has an accelerometer inside to identify when it's in use. Motion prevents standby, and picking up the iron wakes it back up from standby. It will never accidentally enter standby while you're using it. The downside is that bumping the stand too hard while in standby will wake it up even if you don't want it to.On the nano/pico, there is no accelerometer, and it uses heating to determine whether it's in use or not. If it sees the heat demand has remained at a constant low level for a while, it enters standby. A sudden plunge in temperature while in standby (by pushing the tip into the brass wool) wakes it up. Bumping the stand will not accidentally wake it up, but the downside is that if you happen to try to solder at the exact moment it has entered standby, it will not wake up because it's expecting the temperature to drop, so it doesn't recognize the drop in temperature as you starting a joint. So on occasion, it enters standby right as you want to use it, and at that exact moment it ignores the normal "wake up" signal. (You either have to wait for it to cool to the standby temperature and then put the tip into the brass wool, or you press one of the buttons on the front.)On the balance, I prefer the accelerometer-controlled sleep of the big models.*Since you've never owned a soldering station before: modern soldering stations have "standby" modes to prolong tip life. In standby, the tip is cooled to around 200°C, which is cool enough to significantly reduce tip oxidation, but still warm enough that heating back up to soldering temperature happens very, very quickly. Typically, a station will enter standby after 5-10 mins of disuse. You can set both the standby time and temperature in the settings. After a much longer period in standby (e.g. 30-60 mins), most modern stations will go into automatic shutdown, where the heater is either turned off entirely, or reduced to a very low temperature like 50°C.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 07:45:47 pm
content: Tooki: thanks for sharing your experiences and recommendations!Unless I hear of something better I think I'll be going for the Ersa Nano Mk2.I was hoping for something a lot cheaper (like an Ersa RDS-80 which I saw second hand recently selling cheaply), but since I want ESD protection and lasting quality I guess it doesn't come for free (like everything else). It'll be an investment (buying cheap stuff that breaks down after a short while, then buying the good stuff later ends up much more expensive!).I'm a little confused about the different tips, so I might just look up some Youtube videos on the matter first, to see which tips is best suited for which task, then buy two or 3 along with the soldering station kit. I've really only used a "pencil tip" throughout the years, as that's what I've had, but with better tools I might just experience many soldering taks to become easier.I'm particularly curious about how to get started with SMD components.For desoldering I might just go for that Engineer SS-20. The silicon tube sounds like a great idea (who knows -maybe adding one to my existing desoldering-pump might make a difference!). I also have a cheap desoldering-iron, which is slightly better to use than a regular soldering iron and pump, but those jobs aren't something I look forward to since it's a 50/50 chance of getting the job done or messing up circuit traces.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 07:55:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 15, 2024, 05:36:32 pmI-CON (non 1) and I-CON 2 support different (non vario) tools, such as X-tool, tweezers and some other.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 09:35:12 pm
content: I also got my Ersa Nano MK2 yesterday. Had Pico MK1 before, but decided to upgrade to the ESD version (nano) with the newer tips (142 series)Also, it's made in Germany (vs the pico that was made in China)It's too soon to share my experience, but considering how happy I was with pico, I think this would be even better.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2024, 10:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: mehdi on September 18, 2024, 09:35:12 pmSounds great!Please report back what your experiences are, when you're ready

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 09:09:57 pm
content: I recommend a cartridge soldering tip system, that is JBC, PACE or Hakko and some more. Now I see no reason to buy an Ersa.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 09:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on September 25, 2024, 09:09:57 pmDon't poke the hornets nest..

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 04:53:50 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on September 25, 2024, 09:09:57 pmErsa achieves similar performance (certainly the same as the Pace AccuDrive, if not better, and certainly better than Hakko and Pace’s earlier cartridge systems) without actually needing cartridges. In the end it’s about how well it performs in the real world (and not about how that is achieved), and Ersa does deliver. JBC’s thermal performance is perhaps a tiny bit better, but not so much better as to outweigh other things I prefer about Ersa.I’ve used JBC and Ersa extensively, and when it came time to pick a new soldering station at work, I chose Ersa over JBC.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 01:12:16 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 26, 2024, 04:53:50 amWell, you might be happy with Ersa when you do not need such a big range of soldering tips and you do not need to change tips often and quickly.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 01:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 26, 2024, 04:53:50 amI have the "old" PACE ADS200 at home, bought in 2022. Soldering performance is good, but not excellent. Special tips are even more expensive than JBC. I like it, though. It is made of aluminium while most other soldering stations are made of plastic (JBC, Hakko...)Unfortunately, there is still no review on thenewPACE ADS200Plus.https://paceworldwide.com/news/introducing-ads200-plusQuoteSomeone should prove this!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 08:51:46 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on September 26, 2024, 01:18:40 pmWe have two Hakko stations and both are metal (fx100, fm203). JBC clones that are metal (though the aixun t380 one is garbage). Multiple Metcals, all metal. Only the metcals have all metal handpieces though, which I agree is a nice premium feature.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 09:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on September 26, 2024, 01:12:16 pmAs a reminder: I have worked with JBC extensively, so I’m not at all unfamiliar with what it’s like to use them in real-world use.Their selection of tips is second to none. But they’re also expensive as heck, so actually making use of said selection is an expensive affair.As for tip switching: sure, cartridge is faster. But the Ersa systems are not slow. It’s nothing like changing a tip on a traditional Weller or Hakko. The 142 series bayonet tips are even easier.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 01:25:40 pm
content: Sorry to ask, but what is a cartridge, and why is this important to consider when choosing a soldering-station?By the way; i just found this guide from Hakko onHow to select the right shape and size of the tip for micro solderingwhich I found helpful.PS: the guide refers to P.W.B. ("Consider the size and shape of the P.W.B. and components for their thermal mass carefully, and select the soldering tip that fits with them well."). Does anyone know what this means?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 02:27:27 pm
content: Cartridge is a soldering tip and heating element in one piece. Thermal performance is usually better than a traditional 1980's soldering iron.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 02:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on September 29, 2024, 01:25:40 pmHydrawerk summed it up nicely.Ersa is basically the exception to the rule: the i-Con series performs better than first-generation cartridge-heater tips (like Hakko T12 and Pace TD-100), but not quite as well as the best cartridge systems today (e.g. JBC). They do this by having the heater go very far into the tip, having the heater small and powerful, with the sensor at the very tip too, and by keeping tolerances tight.(FYI, the term "cartridge heater" in soldering comes from thecartridge heatersused in industry. It's very clear how the soldering cartridge heater tips evolved from industrial cartridge heaters -- and how the Ersa i-Con heater is itself essentially a cartridge heater. I have used cartridge heaters in a few projects now, where masses of metal need to be heated precisely. Small cartridge heaters are also the typical heating element used in 3D printer nozzles.)Quote from: analogix on September 29, 2024, 01:25:40 pmPWB = printed wiring board. Just an alternative, mostly archaic synonym for a printed circuit board (PCB). (Every single page I have seen that tries to explain some difference between the two is either AI garbage, or trying to invent a difference like "complexity" or manufacturing process, or both. I am unconvinced that there is any substantive difference, other than PWB being the older word.)

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:33:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 29, 2024, 02:57:55 pmThanks to both for explaining.The tricky thing sometimes is determining between "what's best" and "what's best/good enough for my use".Obviously there's a huge difference in equipment needs for a professional who uses these tools heavily every day and a hobbyist as myself who works on the occasional projects for personal use. From what I've learnt so far it appears the Ersa I-Con Nano Mk2 will be a very big improvement over what I've been using all these years (30W or 40W soldering irons and mostly the same type of pencil tip) and probably more than good enough for hobbyist needs. Agreed?QuoteAha! I've never heard that term before, always referring to "printed circuit board" or "PCB". Thanks for clearing that up

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:34:02 pm
content: Ersa is not that much interested in soldering stations. They produce many types of production machines...https://www.kurtzersa.com/products/electronics-production/overviewAnd we forgot about Weller. They also produce cartridge soldering stations. I am still not sure whether they are worth buying or not... They are not popular on this forum. I have never seen them in person. I do not like them muchnow.Any Weller WX user here?https://www.weller-tools.com/us/en/industrial-soldering/products/soldering-stations?family[]=WX+Line+Soldering+Stations

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:41:28 pm
content: If you want a wide tip, ERSA gives you 20mm, while JBC has a 40mm tip for example.https://ts.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/soldering-desoldering-tips/soldering-tip-series-142/produkt-details/0142zdlf200-1.htmlhttps://www.jbctools.com/c245792-blade-cartridge-40-product-1388.html(PACE has a 25mm tip. But thermal performance is not great.https://paceworldwide.com/blade-tip-25mm)

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:50:33 pm
content: Ersa soldering iron is bloody expensive even if it is made of plastic.https://ts.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/tools-for-soldering-stations/produkt-details/i-tool-mk2-1.htmlhttps://www.tme.eu/en/details/ersa-0105cdj/soldering-stations-accessories/ersa/0105cdj/There is some complex electronics hidden inside.QuoteThe heating element probably can be replaced??https://ts.kurtzersa.com/fileadmin/medien/members_final/Electronics/9_Medien/9.5_Kataloge/9.5.1_Tools/Ersa-Soldering-Tools-Catalog-en.pdfBut I did on find that in any eshop.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 04:38:57 pm
content: ^i-tool heating element costs around EUR 45-80 depending on model. Most likely you'll never need to replace it. Complete i-tool with heating element included costs around twice of that.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 04:57:21 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on September 18, 2024, 10:51:42 pmI am not a professional, and I do use soldering irons for personal projects. Also, I have never used a cartridge-based system (or any tool from Metcal and JBC)Having said that, I love the nano. The tips are much easier and faster to change, as they're now turn and pull (vs the old version that had screw-based tips)I can't comment like a professional, but I love using it (to make sure I get the best out of my soldering iron, I also use the best solder wire and flux that I can afford/find)The build quality seems to be better than pico. Specifically, the cord connecting the iron to the base, seems to be more flexible.Another deciding factor for me on going with Ersa i-Con pico/nano was the size: I can easily place the soldering iron base, and the iron holder, on my fume extractor (hence, saving precious desk space when I'm not using them)Nano's stand also has space for storing 4 extra tips.Here are some pictures:

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 07:24:54 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on September 29, 2024, 03:33:26 pmWith the caveat that hobbyist and professional needs are often notthatfar apart -- I am an advocate of using good tools for your hobbies -- I fundamentally agree. The whole package is what matters, not necessarily one spec above all else.Going from a "fire stick" with single tip to a modern soldering station will be arevelation. At least that's how it was for me when I got my i-Con nano. Going from the nano to JBC at my old work? A little better, but not groundbreaking.IMHO, for most purposes, once you're in the world of name-brand soldering stations, the choice of tip will make a bigger difference than whether it's an Ersa, JBC, Pace, or Weller. Matching the tip to the job makes all the difference.Quote from: analogix on September 29, 2024, 03:33:26 pmAnother term you may encounter is PCA: printed circuit assembly. This means specifically a PCB that has the components populated. (In that case, then "PCB" is used to mean specifically the board itself,withoutthe components.) Sometimes you see PCBA (printed circuit board assembly) to mean the populated board.Analogous to this, you occasionally see PWA (printed wiring assembly) to mean the populated board.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 07:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on September 29, 2024, 03:34:02 pmI don't see this as a negative. It means deep understanding of soldering in all aspects.And Ersa soldering stations are certainly quite widespread in Europe. They're definitely not the biggest player, but definitely not a small one, either.Quote from: Hydrawerk on September 29, 2024, 03:41:28 pmAs I have said before, JBC's tip selection is second to none, and by a wide margin. If there's one area where I can give JBC unconditional praise, it's in the size of their tip selection.Unfortunately, their tip prices make it difficult to actually take advantage of that huge selection. :'(In a production environment, where you use a small number of different tips, this isn't a big deal. In prototyping and rework, where you may need a wider array of tips, then their cost becomes an issue.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 07:55:32 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 29, 2024, 07:40:49 pmLearning wielding 2 soldering irons in both hands (with regular chisel tips) replaces many of JBC spacialty tips not available from Ersa and/or soldering tweezers. Also I find many JBC specialty tips more like wankery often designed as workaround for lack of soldering skill, lack of proper design for production, or chosing wrong tool for the job (soldering iron) to begin with.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 10:10:19 am
content: Quote from: mehdi on September 29, 2024, 04:57:21 pmThanks for the photos and sharing your experiences!From what I can tell this sounds like a solid purchase and very likely a great improvement for me over the basic soldering irons I've been using for all these years. Unless someone comes up with a compelling reason not to, I think I'm going to get the same model tooThe fume extractor is a great addition -I need to look into that as I have nothing of that sort (I've used to blow away the fumes, with limited results).Did you get some additional tips?

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 10:36:02 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 29, 2024, 07:24:54 pmYes, I agree. Good tools, and of course a good soldering technique!I'm self-taught, and can't remember attending any courses or lessons, and most of what I've learnt has been through experience. I've been fine soldering the usual through-hole stuff, wires, connectors etc. but I'm sure I've picked up some mistakes along the way and it's never too late to re-learn things.In another thread in this forum namedTopic: Solder practice kits for technicianssomeone (you actually!)referred to a series of Youtube soldering lessons:Basic soldering lessons 1-9 by Pace. I'm going to watch this, and look for some similar lessons, but updated for more modern components (SMD ICs etc.).I found the thread becausein another thread I was suggested to start with SMDs by getting some SMD soldering-practice kits, which I'll be trying to get hold of.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 11:13:27 am
content: Quote from: analogix on September 30, 2024, 10:10:19 amYes. It came with a Chisel 1.6mm tip as standard. I also ordered a Chisel 1mm, a Hoof 1.6mm and a pencil 0.5mm.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 01:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: mehdi on September 30, 2024, 11:13:27 amI'd rather order 2.4, 3.2mm chisel and 2.3 mm solder well instead. I rarely find any use for chisel smaller than 1.6mm. 1.6mm solder well is nearly worthless IME if you mean that, it holds too little solder in the recess and border surrounding the "well" is as thick as on larger well tips. Larger sizes are great on other hand. If you mean flat bevel tip, it's performance isn't great either, thermal performance is quite poor.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 01:45:54 pm
content: Ersa I-CON 2V 120W Soldering Station with I-TOOL handpiece9. 8. 2021

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 01:50:24 pm
content: That handpiece cable connection is just strange. Most soldering stations have a normal round connector.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 12:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: mehdi on September 29, 2024, 04:57:21 pmHi, sorry just one question, can you tell me if the Ersa i-Con Nano and Nano Mk2 are powered by a linear transformer or a switching power supply ? It does not use a cartridge system but from what I have read the performance is similar, even the tips I have seen that they are not expensive.@TookiDo you also have an Ersa i-Con Nano soldering station ?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ersa-i-con-nano-and-nano-mk2-differences/msg5655303/#msg5655303

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 09:28:11 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 01, 2024, 12:35:04 pmHi. I haven't opened mine, but I bet it has a transformer (considering how unusually heavy the power supply section is)The device weighs in about 1Kg, although it's mostly plastic (and the control board doesn't have anything heavy on it), so the weight should come from the transformer.I also was hearing humming noises from pico (presumably coming from the transformer) but my nano is more quiet.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 12:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: mehdi on October 02, 2024, 09:28:11 amHi, thanks for answering me, yes given the weight they both mount a linear power supply, online you can't find photos of the inside.The i-Con Nano is out of production but the new PICO MK2 costs about € 210:https://www.reichelt.com/it/it/shop/prodotto/stazione_di_saldatura_ersa_i-con_pico_mk2_68_w_1_canale-357477#closemodalAt this price it is better than all the Chinese clones since it is produced in Germany.A user on the i-CON PICO made this modification:

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 12:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 02, 2024, 12:26:00 pmCorrection: the old Pico and Nano are discontinued. You can buy Pico MK2 and Nano MK2 now.Also: Nano is Made in Germany, not Pico.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 01:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: mehdi on October 02, 2024, 12:28:22 pmSorry I didn't realize, in fact one is calledI-CON PICO MK2, and the otherI-CON NANO MK2, in fact the nano is more expensive:https://www.reichelt.com/it/it/shop/prodotto/stazione_di_saldatura_ersa_i-con_pico_mk2_68_w_1_canale-357477#closemodalhttps://www.reichelt.com/it/it/shop/prodotto/stazione_di_saldatura_ersa_i-con_nano_mk2_68_w_1_canale-358235#closemodalBoth have 68w, on the outside they look the same, I don't know if the build quality changes between the two models.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 05:46:27 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 02, 2024, 01:03:54 pmThe Pico and Nano are extremely close cousins, but I would not consider theNanoPico for electronics because the tip is not grounded. Someone who has used both says the Pico has stiffer cable on the iron, too.And as already stated, the Nano is made in Germany, the Pico is made in China.Quote from: mehdi on October 02, 2024, 09:28:11 amWeird. My Nano makes no sound at all.Quote from: marck120 on October 01, 2024, 12:35:04 pmI have opened mine before, it's a transformer.Quote from: marck120 on October 01, 2024, 12:35:04 pmI wrote in my very first reply in this thread (reply #3):Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2024, 10:38:02 amQuote from: Hydrawerk on September 30, 2024, 01:50:24 pmThat's because on the Nano and Pico, the handpiece is not intended to be disconnected, since there are no other handpieces for it. The connector is a card edge connector onto PCB fingers.Quote from: mehdi on September 30, 2024, 11:13:27 amI suspect you'll find the 0.5mm pencil to get exactly zero use. Not only are tips that thin only useful in extremely limited situations, pencil tips just suck.The 0.8mm asymmetrical chisel ('CDLF08A) is stubbier and works better for getting heat in.What I recommend unconditionally is the PLCC blade ('BDLF20), the 2.4mm asymmetrical chisel ('CDLF24A), and a big chisel (like the 4.6 mm asymmetrical chisel ['CDLF46A] or regular 5mm chisel ['CDLF50]) for heavy components like the mounting pins of rotary encoders, for big connectors like BNC, and for using with solder wick. The asymmetrical ones are fabulous for solder wick.Quote from: wraper on September 30, 2024, 07:55:32 amI absolutely do use two irons sometimes (that's why I ordered the i-Con 2V at work instead of the 1V).But as for the rest of your reply, I wholeheartedtly disagree, whether with the statement as such, or with how judgmental the entire reply is.It's not "wankery" to use tools that reduce the required operator skill, it's a sound decision for production. A "proper design for production" may not be possible for a prototype or short-run products. But even if a manufacturer or engineer does fuck up and make a bad design: what's wrong with creating workarounds to help a customer with a weird problem they have? How does it reflect poorly on JBC that they help their customers solve problems?!?Some of the special tips are extremely specialized, like the ones for melting down heat stakes. You don't want to ruin your soldering tips doing that, and they plate those differently.In a nutshell: just because those tips aren't useful toyoudoesn't mean they aren't useful to someone else.The one JBC tip I wish Ersa would copy: the other PLCC blades (which JBC calls "knives", since they yse the word "blades" for something else). In particular, the miniature C245789 is extemely useful for reworking QFN devices.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 08:53:15 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 02, 2024, 05:46:27 pmCorrection: it's thePicowhere the tip is not grounded. In Nano, tip is grounded.And yes, I've used both, and the cable in Nano is softer.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 08:59:15 pm
content: C245789looks interesting, all of the clone knife tips have wide taper which makes them less useful for fine work, but bit more useful for thermally demanding work.and no, I'm not replacing tweezers with two irons in the workplace..

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 09:31:20 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 02, 2024, 05:46:27 pmThanks for the info, so is it better to buy the i-CON PICO MK2 ?Quote from: tooki on October 02, 2024, 05:46:27 pmFrom what I understand at home you use the old model i-Con nano, instead at work you have a Mk2 i-Con 2V.EDIT :Quote from: mehdi on October 02, 2024, 08:53:15 pmThen it is better to buy the I-CON NANO MK2, only that it costs 285€, at the price of 298€ there is the JBC BT-2BQA but the tips are more expensive.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/ersa-i-con-nano-vs-jbc-bt-2bwa-what-to-buy-for-a-beginner/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 09:10:27 am
content: Quote from: mehdi on October 02, 2024, 08:53:15 pmOops, yes, that was a typo, thanks for catching it! Fixed.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 09:29:46 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 02, 2024, 09:31:20 pmSorry about the typo, what I meant is “avoid the pico for electronics”.The JBC tips are more expensive for sure. The under 300 euro JBC station is a fantastic deal, and with that you’re getting a 130W (peak) iron that can handle nearly any job you throw at it. So basically a soldering station for life. But with the caveat that tips cost more, and are a bit less durable than Ersa tips. (But if you treat them well, both JBC and Ersa tips will last practically forever for hobby use.) The Nano is an 80W (peak) station, so certain very large joints (like heavy coaxial connectors on multilayer PCBs) might be hard on the Nano but easier on the JBC. However, in such situations using board preheating is usually advisable anyway.I suppose that if I had the option of a 300 euro Nano and 300 euro JBC, I’d choose the JBC. (When I got my nano about 10 years ago, it was under 200 euros on Amazon! And JBC was around 400, I think.)

author: maralb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 01:34:18 pm
content: Personally, when doing a lot of (fine) SMD work I would prefer the Ersa Nano above the 130W C245 series JBC stations. I think JBC C210 series solderstations/tips are more suitable for that.At work I use JBC stations. At home an Ersa Nano Mk1 with several tips for SMD work - I did choose that one for the obvious reason of the tips being less expensive. I can do a decent job with both Ersa and JBC..... They are both quality equipment and the final result also greatly depends on your skills.Just my 2 cents.....

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 03:15:00 pm
content: @Tooki, @MaralbThank you for the advice, very kind.Is the JBC BT-2BQA compatible with the C210 handles ?https://www.jbctools.com/pdf/BT_MANUAL.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOooLc8FTw1SWqyhD4bq556ex0NXnkO0KJb9j4PySahnLGdHekWejOn welectron it costs 299€ and included is a C245-907 2.2x1.0 mm tip. Even if the chisel tip is not suitable for precision work, I know the shop because I had purchased my multimeter.https://www.welectron.com/JBC-BT-2BWA-Soldering-StationThe tips are about 30€:https://www.welectron.com/JBC-C245-930-Soldering-Tip-R05-mm-Conical-Straight,they are always expensive but is it possible to use clone tips ? Doesn't it damage the station ?

author: maralb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 05:52:08 pm
content: Regarding eleshop.nl in Holland, the JBC BT-2BQA station is compatible with C210 handles.https://eleshop.eu/jbc-bt-2bqa-soldering-station.htmlAt work, we exchanged the C210 and C245 handles between the more expensive CD-2BQF stations with the displays without problems.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 08:34:35 pm
content: Quote from: maralb on October 04, 2024, 05:52:08 pmThank you, I think the JBC BT-2BQA soldering station is always the same, I don't think there are different versions, consequently the JBC BT-2BQA should all be compatible with the C210 handles.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2024, 07:29:53 pm
content: I'm just about to order the Ersa iCon Nano Mk2 (had to wait several weeks because they were out of stock)....and had a closer look at the available tips (series 142), so I can order some extra tips at the same time (yes, I've read the previous comments on this).The iCon Nano Mk2 comes with a142CDLF16, which is a 1.6mm wide chisel tip which I understand is suitable for most general usage.Since I'm used to simple soldering irons with a pointed tip used for everything, I want one of those as well, to make the transition easier.There are two such tips in stock to choose from:0142PDLF03L(0.3mm pencil tip, extended)and0142PDLF03(0.3mm pencil tip, recessed)So what does "recessed" and "extended" mean, and in which situations are they best used?Thiking about it, 0.3mm is quite narrow and pointy -probably more pointed than what I'm used to, so.... I'm wondering if the 0.6mm chisel tip listed below might be a better choice for soldering like with a pointed tip? Especially point soldering of SMD IC legs and so on.I would also like something quite wide, but they currently only have the following chisels in stock at the moment:0142CDLF24A(2.4mm chisel tip, assymetric)0142CDLF32(3.2mm chisel tip)0142CDLF06(0.6mm chisel tip)What does "assymetric" mean? Is it when the side is angled?I'm thinking a wide chisel would be useful for a lot of tasks.Tooki recommended several tipsincluding the 2.4mm assymetric chisel in the above listing. Would this be suitable for "drag soldering" multiple pins of an SMD IC, or would the 3.2mm chisel be better suited for this along with other things, being more versatile?I've never used an angled tip before, but once gotten used to -what are they better at compared to "regular" chisel tips?There are a bunch of others as well, but I'll have to wait 7 weeks for them to get delivered, or I have to order them from another supplier which is a lot more expensive.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2024, 09:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on October 31, 2024, 07:29:53 pmYou sorta can, but it will be suboptimal, I suggest getting 0142WDLF23, don't buy smaller one, it'll be a waste of money.QuoteBoth are good to have.QuoteMight be useful for some small stuff where you cannot get with larger tip and thermal performance is not an issue but I rarely use anything smaller than 1.2 mm chisel even for 0402 parts.QuoteThermal performance will suck.QuoteMight be useful for some small stuff with heavy power planes.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2024, 09:26:27 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on October 31, 2024, 07:29:53 pmRecessed is a shorter tip with good thermal performance. If they have a bent version its my favorite tip style atm.Extended would be needed if you have nearby components in the way and you need to reach past them, the thermal performance will be much worse.edit: seems they just have the bent in extended?https://ts.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/soldering-desoldering-tips/soldering-tip-series-142/produkt-details/0142sdlf04l.html

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2024, 10:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 31, 2024, 09:22:38 pmOK, found the0142WDLF23which is noted as "PowerWell with concave portion".What does that mean and how does it differ in use to0142CDLF24A"chisel-shaped, asymmetric" which you suggested above I don't get (but it's actually 1mm bigger than the first one, not smaller).QuoteWhich uses do they have, and how do they differ in use?QuoteI've never used a chisel tip, but for narrow areas or small components -is it just a matter of turning the tip sideways?If that's the case, perhaps a sharp "pencil tip" is not needed for anything, given that the thermal performance will be very bad as well?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2024, 11:01:37 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on November 01, 2024, 10:40:49 pmI actually said it's good to have. But it's not meant for drag soldering. It's a high performance substitute for regular chisel, although somewhat less versatile. It will be better than usual chisel for drag soldering (in other words better than nothing) but not nearly as good as proper tip meant for this job.QuoteBy smaller I meant smaller 0142WDLF16 solder well tip, it holds too little solder. I have MK1 version of that 0102WDLF16 and barely ever used it despite going over multiple 2.3mm ones due to wear (I estimate they lasted ~30-40k solder joints but I guess it would be more with regular SMD IC pins instead of connectors I mostly soldered).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2024, 11:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on November 01, 2024, 10:40:49 pmYeah, very small chisels is not really any different than a conical (pencil tip), which are not optimal for general soldering.You can turn a chisel tip at an angle as you say.What the bent conicals are useful are modding tasks and cleanup. QFN pads that were dry, running 30+ AWG wire to pins, etc.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2024, 11:54:26 pm
content: Thanks for your suggestions, guys!A lot of this is new to me, so as tempting as it may be to just order "one of each" I won't do thatI suppose each person's need is different (what types of components you solder the most, how often, how specialized you want to get etc.) so I think I'll just start off with a few of the ones suggested here in addition to the supplied tip and take it from there, seeing what I miss as I actually start using it.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 04:36:34 pm
content: I'm the OP and anxiously awaiting delivery of my Ersa iCon Nano Mk.2 which has been on back-order for a while. I hope to receive it within 1-2 weeks.I also ordered 6-7 additional series 142 tips, based on what has been suggested here. So in the end I think I'll be getting a pretty nice setup to replace basic soldering irons which I've used since the 80sIn the meantime I have a question (which I don't see the downloadable user-manual adressing): which temperature settings should I use for leaded solder, and for lead-free solder?I have zero experience with lead-free soldering, and believe I still have some leaded solder left before having to buy a new roll of lead-free type (I understand that's all you can get these days), so is there anything I should keep in mind with soldering techniques etc. (apart from a higher temperature) when soldering with lead-free solder?Besides the appropriate temperature settings for leaded or lead-free solder, when would I need to change the soldering station's temperature?

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 04:45:25 pm
content: @analogix Congrats! I'm sure you will love it.I use Kester Sn63Pb37 solder, and according to the datasheet, anything from 315 to 343C works (I usually have my iron fixed on 340C)I believe you need more temperature for lead-free alloys, but I don't use lead-free.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 05:46:42 pm
content: Thanks. I think it'll be a huge step up from a simple soldering iron.I also boughta solder-fume fan with filter. It's aDuratool D00679which I haven't yet tried when soldering, but I powered it on and according to some online reviews it works fine -at least for hobby use.So regarding temperature settings you just set it according to the solder type you're using and keep it there? No need to adjust it any further? Soldering has always been on/off for me, so actually changing the temperature will be a luxery.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 05:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on December 15, 2024, 05:46:42 pmI would actually wait for professionals to answer this.I don't do soldering on a daily basis, and I only use one solder (the one I mentioned)Probably people adjust the temperature based on the tip being used, the components being soldered, and also the solder they use.But for my simplistic and hobbyist setup, a fixed temperature works most of the time.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 05:53:27 pm
content: I like the simplistic setupWhat you say makes perfect sense. I imagine needing to solder huge grounding areas demands a higher temperature than "normal" soldering, but for me I'll 99.9% of the time be using it for through-hole or SMD components, so I guess I can't go wrong using it like yours.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 07:58:40 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on December 15, 2024, 04:36:34 pmI usually use around 300-330C for leaded, 330-360C for lead-free.Within a given solder type, I generally use lower temperatures on PCBs and higher ones on connectors (where it’s critical to not heat the pin for long, or else the plastic will melt).You need to set the iron higher for slender tips, lower for fat ones. And you fundamentally want to use as big a tip as is practical, with as low a temperature as is practical, such that you can make a joint within 2-3 seconds. The principles of thermal management and good joints, which apply equally to leaded and lead-free solder, are covered beautifully in the Pace video series I recommend to everyone:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837The only time I ever use a temperature significantly above 330C for leaded solder is when using ultra-fine tips like the 0.4mm “chisel” (I put it in quotes because it looks and behaves like a conical tip once there’s solder on it). They’re so thin, and thus have such terrible thermal conductivity to the point of the tip, that during use the temperature at the working end is actually far below the temperature at the sensor. So you often need even 350-370C with those. (I hate those tips and use them only when it is absolutely unavoidable.)Quote from: analogix on December 15, 2024, 05:53:27 pmRaising the tip temperature to compensate for large thermal mass is a crutch. The real solution here is to use a bigger tip if possible (i.e. fighting thermal mass with thermal mass!), and to use auxiliary board heating, like a preheater, or at least preheating the board with hot air.The danger with raising the tip temperature more and more is that if you are struggling to get the joint to melt, you’re probably going to heat it for much too long, and at the point where the tip makes contact, you heat it to a much higher temperature than you normally would. So you end up with a cold board but an overcooked spot. That overheated spot can easily suffer pad delamination or other thermal damage.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 03:39:46 pm
content: Good explanation. Thanks!

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2024, 03:49:09 pm
content: I just received and unpacked my Ersa iCon Nano Mk.2 today, and I'm super-impressed!This is definitely a luxery upgrade from using basic soldering irons! I hadn't thought about it until now, but even the cable to the soldering iron makes a HUGE difference (I'm used to thick and much stiffer AC cables which are always in the way). The thin silicon cable is so much betterThe whole unit screams "quality" and "luxery", and "Made in Germany" adds to this.I've powered it on just to see if everything's OK, and I was very impressed about how quickly it gets ready. Again, I'm used to a soldering iron which means plug it in, take a cup of coffee or something for a few minutes, then get back to soldering. But here it's just a matter of seconds! I look forward to actually using it (and with the filtered solder-fume fan the whole soldering experience will reach another level).I have a couple of questions, which the manual doesn't answer:1)the manual instructs to switch off the station and let the soldering iron tip cool down to 40 degrees C.Obviously I can't follow the termperature reading in the display with it switched off, so how long do I have to wait for it to cool down?2)What are the four brass rods for (that go on top of the stand)?

author: w42i
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2024, 05:02:15 pm
content: The brass tubes can be used for parking unused solder trips.I never let the tip cool before changing them on my iCon Nano MK2. I just take the hot one off, put it on one of the brass tubes and stick the next on. The bayonet attachment makes this super quick, much quicker than with the iCon 1 MK1 I use at work (which has threads).Maybe this causes additional thermal stress on the soldering iron and tips due to the heat shock. But waiting for everything to cool down before changing tips pretty much defeats the purpose of having the bayonet quick attachment, so I just take the risk.Maybe they just want you to let it cool to prevent people from burning themselves and getting sued, but IANAL.Edit: I use one bayonet collar per tip, because removing the collar from the tip and inserting a new one is not so easy when they are hot and takes too much time (in my opinion).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2024, 10:06:41 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on December 19, 2024, 03:49:09 pmSatisfying, isn't it!?Quote from: analogix on December 19, 2024, 03:49:09 pmTip storage pins.Quote from: analogix on December 19, 2024, 03:49:09 pmEh, that's some lawyer talking. Cooling to 40 degrees takes several minutes.I NEVER wait for it to cool off. I just change tips carefully. Ersa actually used to make a special tip-changing tweezer specifically for these, to allow handling hot tips safely, model number 3N544. As best I can tell, it's been discontinued, but there are resellers that still have it in stock.I usually don't even turn it off to change tips. Just very carefully remove the hot tip, place it on a storage pin, then put the new tip on.**Though one must be quick and decisive when putting the new tip on: if you do it slowly, the cold, new tip cools off the end of the heating element (where the sensor is) and tells it to heat up, which you really don't want it to do without a tip in place. The element will quickly get red hot, and I don't think that's good for it...)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2024, 10:08:39 pm
content: Quote from: w42i on December 19, 2024, 05:02:15 pmUmmmm... that's not how the Mk2 (series 142) tips work: the bayonet collar is an integral part of the tip, and is preattached and thus also included with the price. It's not like the Mk1 (series 102) tips where the collar was a separate part.If you have removed a collar from a 142 tip, you're doing it wrong.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2024, 03:23:06 pm
content: w42iandtooki: thanks for your comments and insight.I think to be on the safe side I'll just power off the soldering station, wait something like 1/2 or 1 minute to cool down, then carefully remove and replace the tip before powering up again. That way I won't risk any damage.Since this is for hobby use I'm not working by the clock and can afford to waitQuote from: tooki on December 19, 2024, 10:06:41 pmAbsolutely! I've never used a soldering station before, and see that there's more to it than just having a stable temperature.I look forward to getting the time to use it (I've actually purchased and received several SMD soldering practice kits for Ali Express for this).

author: w42i
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2024, 06:13:44 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 19, 2024, 10:08:39 pmAhhh, yes, I may have mixed things up since I have none of the two solder stations accessible at the moment. Sorry for the confusion.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 08:28:53 pm
content: I think ERSA stations are still one of the best.I have the I-CON 2v for more than 10 years, original i-tool never swap anything, these stations are built to last, but also tips are exceptionally long lasting, in all this time I only swap a 0.3mm tip last year, despite it still work very good, it's grabbing the element and hard to swap, so I replace it.The i-tool is the most pleasing soldering tool I ever experienced, it's just pleasing to hold and dam light. I don't care if is plastic, after >10 years it still looks like new with 0 damage and don't heat your hand.Heat performance is good, but at tiny tips you can strugle a bit with big masses, I'm just to lazy to swap tips and end in use 0.3mm for many jobs which are handled fine. (I mostly do SMD and micro-eletronics), but if you use a "normal" size for the job/pad this thing will just flow your solder like magic, never had problem with mosfet's on large pads.If you take price into consideration, ERSA beats many, if not all stations, because it will out-last! I used same tip for 10 years and it still work!JBC in other hand can have better heat performance at tip sacrifice, but also cost lot more in long run, tips are more expensive and will not last as long.ERSA disatantage of a difficult hot-swap (Maybe not a problem anymore with MK2). Just make sure you have a colar per tip.At a budget ERSA is unbeatable!PS: I made an 3D print for tip holder that stacks on station:https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2406919

author: Veketti
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 07:14:37 am
content: I didn't read all posts so maybe this was addressed already. Anyhow, if I may say negative comment on i-Con Nano. I gave up mine few years ago due to the bad implementation of the standby function. I wanted something that goes to standby immediately when put into holder and wake up immediately when removed from holder. This one took long time to sleep and wake up was sketchy.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 11:05:29 am
content: Quote from: Veketti on February 21, 2025, 07:14:37 amI addressed this in detail in a reply earlier in the thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ersa-i-con-nano-and-nano-mk2-differences/msg5643779/#msg5643779Because Ersa doesn’t use any actual sensing of the stand (like how JBC does it), it can’t know the instant you put it back in the stand; the nano/pico just look at extremely steady energy input, while the big stations use an accelerometer. Not that you would want them to enter standbyimmediately— that’s a lot more thermal stress on the heater and tip. Remember that changing temperature causss thermal stresses, too, so it’s not recommended to go into too deep a standby (like, say, 180C), nor to do it constantly. That’s why there’s always a few minutes delay before entering standby, even on stations like JBC that know the instant the iron is put in the stand.The big i-con stations wake from sleep as soon as they detect motion again. JBC wake when removed from the stand. The nano/pico are weak here, since you must manually trigger the wake, either by pressing a button or by touching the tip to something cold, like the brass wool, to cause a temperature plunge it can detect. What I find the most irritating about the nano/pico approach is that if you happen to grab the iron right as it started to enter standby (that is, when it is letting the tip cool a bit), it becomes “blind” to the touch-something-cold method of waking, so in practice, it can enter standby as you try to use it.