Earthing: debating with fools backed up by credible-looking research? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 11:41:09 am
content: This is a superbly open-ended question. The specific case I'm looking at is on the subject of "Earthing"; the idea is that if you have a conductive mattress connected to Earth, it's "more natural" and you have the potential of the Earth and not the atmosphere and that's how we've evolved and bla bla BS BS. And they havethis fantastic page, which starts off with some retarded home-spun experiments and photos of clumped blood cells. But then they have a list of research papers at the end. Now, I've looked at a couple, and they are so flawed that it's laughable, but what concerns me is that if these scammers had a ounce of sense, they might run the experiments correctly and luckily get a positive result, or omit exactly how they screwed up their results so that the reader can't see it, or even simply fake the results if they have a vested interest.If they did that, how do I, a random civilian, find quality evidence? If you search "Human earthing" on Google Scholar, you just get overrun by poor papers in questionable journals. What do you do when real, credible institutes are clever enough to realise the research is a dead end and therefore fail to publish counter-evidence to the wave of BS journal papers? If I didn't have any preconceived understanding of electronics, and just went on randomly searched-for research papers, I'd probably come to the conclusion that Earthing was beneficial. This seems broken.</completely aimless rant>

author: Alex30
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 12:25:12 pm
content: Can't really offer you much of a technical answer to your question but I can offer you some advice:Although I think living near strong RF sources is not desirable for your health, most first world countries will provide sufficient distance between the emissions and where anyone can safely go. Still though, I sometimes see places close to these strong RF sources in Australia and although I don't think they pose any health risk, I can see them causing headaches or lack of concentration for some people who are susceptible.However all this nonsense with grounding only goes as far as feeling comfortable with your shoes off and the hustle and bustle of the city behind you.It's really not worth your time arguing with people who believe in this sort of stuff because they will always have some 'proof' to counter you. People who believe in this stuff believe in it like a religion and see people who don't believe in it as either uninformed or slaves to the 'system' who need to 'open their mind'. Best to just change the subject haha.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 12:28:22 pm
content: QuoteWhy do you debate fools? what do you get out of that?

author: BurningTantalum
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 01:07:03 pm
content: We need to get on the bandwagon PDQ - there must be a market for foil covered hats, and I think that a Faraday Cage Kaftan would look very cool, especially in my locality.BT

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 02:48:53 pm
content: Few points about this topic:Concept of earth/grounding is not that trivial and even some EEs do not get it. General public has almost zero understanding on earthing.Parties interested in spreading general FUD about electricity care only about the facts that support FUD and reject everything else (including true facts). There are also half truths and pure lies in the mix, as usual. Arguing with such parties is not arguing/discussion in a true sense and has very little value.Constant exposure toextremeelectric fields is documented to be harmful. In some cases very high earth currents flow or some extreme fields exists, causing immediate strange sensation and medium-long term damage. This is very rare though.There is category of people who say that they can "feel" negative effect of electricity/RF/WiFi/etc. on them. Most of the cases seems to point to placebo effect because bad "feeling" starts only after individuals know electricity/RF is near by.Arguing with people who feel or believe that all the evil is in electricity is like arguing a religion. As in religion, facts and arguments are mostly dismissed, leaving little to discuss about.Cards are stacked slightly in favour for "earthing society".Solution? Be calm, educate yourself/others and question statements from individuals/institutions.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 03:49:53 pm
content: It is broken.Sorry in advance for the rant on science publishing. If you don't feel like it, please skip the entire post.As for the credibility of papers. It was the editor of Nature, who recentlystated that more than 50% of the papers published in his journal turn out to be wrong within 10 years after publication. And nature is a really well-known and good journal. Many scientists are increasingly worried by the lack of review and poor quality of papers. Personally I know a number of scientist, who found an error in their research, went on and got it past the referee(s) anyway. As bad as that is, I'd say 99% of research in their field's top journals is at least intended well, but apparently still likely wrong.Why I mention this: Someone with no experience in the field and in scientific writing has no chance to judge a papers correctness. Just don't believe new studies. Wait until there are 10 or more in different respected journals and 90% of them say the same thing. Don't regard papers as the last word on something but rather think of them as a forum discussion, including polemic, blunt deception, logical fallacy and Hitler comparisons. It's just science in the making.Nonetheless it is criminal how science is financed, how journals work and how little money and efford is spent on reviewing, reproducing results and finding errors. And most scientist don't even have a choice than to publish half-baked dwellings on insignificant dealings. Image you were on a 1 year contract payed less than a plumber, were measured by your paper output alone (not the quality of your papers) and needed to teach a few hours a week. On top of that you have to referee another man's paper not in your exact (but a similar) field for free and apply for the money to fund your future projects. On top of that the journal wants you to pay $150 ($250 if you have color diagrams) per page on your paper so they can sell your work to other blokes like you. And they don't even proof-read or lay it out for you. It's a wonder not more papers are complete bogus.Real science is not done within but despite of the system.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 03:54:48 pm
content: quick. someone sell these guys a grounding rod to shove up their ... well you know where...mattresses are isolators.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 03:59:48 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 20, 2015, 03:54:48 pmNot if you weave in conductive material...Quote from: rs20 on January 20, 2015, 11:41:09 amAnd don't use a bed sheet, EEWW! Probably unhealthier than not being "earthed".

author: gxti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 04:34:07 pm
content: Also increases the risk of being struck by lightning while asleep, although probably not much.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 05:21:01 pm
content: Quote from: gxti on January 20, 2015, 04:34:07 pmSuppose one lives in a wooden house on a hill with no lighting protection, has poor grounding inside the house and sleeps on 2ndfloor in very well grounded bed near the window...