Digital generation like new medieval era - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 02:06:52 pm
content: HiI have idea what young mens who didn`t work hard on a basic electronics doing science wrong. Their world is digital abstraction without physical laws.It looks like new medieval era: too many prooflinks and only few experiments.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 03:04:00 pm
content: What exactly are you trying to say? Try again.QuoteCould you provide an example of such a person?

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 03:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on August 03, 2019, 03:04:00 pmArduino monkey code istead simple transistor trigger for example

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:01:41 pm
content: And what do you want us to do about it? this is not exactly a question.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 03, 2019, 04:01:41 pmYeaIs not a questionIt is an IDEA

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:34:39 pm
content: more digital = more proprietary software = more magic

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:34:49 pm
content: We all know that there are people that do not understand electronic fundamentals, it's a topic much discussed before.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:40:55 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 03, 2019, 03:49:37 pmI get your point, but not completely sure your example here really illustrates it.A simple transistor trigger (do you mean flip flop or monostable or what exactly?) will often be much faster than the equivalent done in software on an Arduino, so with the latter option, you would actually be confronted to physical limits much sooner. This is often the case when it comes to implementing fast/"real-time" stuff in software compared to pure hardware.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:41:54 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 03, 2019, 04:34:49 pmIt is much more!Electronic basics is physical basicYou can understand it with basic experimentsBut proprietary software logic is random HUMAN logic. No way to understand it. It became DOGMA or MAGIC

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:43:51 pm
content: i still don't see your problem. If someone is writing code they do code, if it works for them whatis the problem?

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:47:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 03, 2019, 04:43:51 pmClosed sources like some mysterious tricksYears after nobody know why tonns of code was writtenNobody can reverse tonns of codeTonns of legacy code became new marvel if You understand me

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:49:03 pm
content: QuoteSays the guy using a world wide network of computers.QuoteWell, if everything someone has is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail. That said, given the state of technology, a microprocessor is an appropriate solution to an extremely wide variety of problems. Given the current state of things the ability to code is arguably more important (certainly more flexible) than, say, being able to calculate the working point of a transistor in a specific configuration.Also note that 'arduino code monkeys' are mostly people who are starting or are just dabbling a bit. Nothing wrong with not being a professional right from the start.QuoteYou mean like language? No, software can be understood, there's a LOT of science behind it. I'm not sure you are operating on valid assumptions here.QuoteLike, say, devices with no schematics available?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 04:52:47 pm
content: no not really, I have not got a clue what you are on about. If the code is going to be continued to be used the source has to be published. It will be rubbished, used as is as fine or refined if a good start but needing improvement.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 08:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 03, 2019, 04:52:47 pmIt is nothing then philosophyTonns of abadoned code became some sort of holy booksNobody know why but everyone use it

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 09:06:59 pm
content: you talking rubbish. Go and sleep it off.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 09:13:05 pm
content: Reading these thread topics that the OP puts up with tedious regularity feels like watching early beta testing of some kind of AI forum interaction algorithm.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 11:42:41 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 03, 2019, 09:06:59 pmSimon you have just proven the OP's initial post is accurate.You don't comprehend what the OP is saying, so you accuse him of being drunk and talking rubbish.In medieval times, you would probably be the leader of the mob calling for the OP to be burnt for heresyThe OP simply postulated that there is too much theory and not enough practice today in electronics, and that as a result young people are buying electronics and software instead of making it themselves by starting with the basics, i.e. transistors and machine code.This, the OP claims is leading to the dogma that these pre-made systems are special, something like magic because no young people really understand them.It may come as a shock to many young people here that there was a time recently when *nothing* electronic premade could be purchased anywhere local, except perhaps a very expensive valve radio from a major city retailer. Sure, the Regency TR-1 four transistor radio became available in America in 1955 for $466 in today's dollars but only the very well off could afford one and you'd probably have to locate a advert in the leading technical magazine of the day, the American Popular Mechanics just to buy one.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_radioIf you were into electronics and had the imagination, flare and desire for something else, perhaps a RC system for a model aircraft, you had to build *everything* yourself except the batteries.This included the receiver, chassis, electronics, and solenoids (no steppers in those days) the transmitter chassis, electronics and microswitch. Control surface activation was via a kind of Morse code. Everything used cheaply available thermionic valves and this was typical of the day. Cheap is the language of the young electronics enthusiast too young to yet have a job, still at school and hence, broke.This was the early 1960's and the OP could easily have been born before that time. The OP perhaps having lived thru that era may be uniquely qualified to comment on modern electronics issues that he sees as a problem, and when he dies of old age, that viewpoint will be gone forever.Did it occur to you that the OP's native language may not be English ?Who else on this forum built electronics devices as a hobby in Australia in the 1960's ? what is your recollection of the times and technology back then ?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2019, 08:36:03 am
content: As you have to make the point. I know exactly where the OP is located. I am aware that he is not a native speaker and he has admitted to drinking in the past when he was being highly disruptive and posting gibberish.I am not the mob leader. I am suggesting that rather than we continue with this mess of a discussion which may just end up in people becoming butt hurt and me having to remove it the OP waits until he is in a frame of mind to make more coherant posts which I know he can.I am 36 so I am old enough to remember the days before widespread micro controller use and dev boards. I also grew up in Italy where my only way of purchasing was through a friendly TV repair man and I was over the moon when he gave me his old RS books and transistor databooks.i too am scheptical of these boards like the Arduino. I just redeveloped an arduino project because it had to be a quick one off only to find that there is some sort of bug that is in the arduino. Fortunately I was able to fix for it in my code but I would always prefer to develop from scratch.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 12:07:16 am
content: you daisy chain arduinos now to replace proper wiring runs , get with the timesits like a orchestra with conductors in the instrument section banging their wands and ripping paper as music and directing the actual conductor who is also conducting themand he periodically demands the audience to throw some sheet music to keep playing the same song (github)btw whats the bend radius of an arduino daughter board stack so you can do wiring now? leaning tower of piza

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 08:21:30 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 05, 2019, 12:07:16 am

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 08:39:35 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 03, 2019, 04:41:54 pmThen you got software from a beginner instead of a decent sw engineer.Software should be easy readable, have lots of comments and decent API with documentation.You can screw software up by coding it in a few minutes without comments and post it, but so can you screw up hardware by omitting the silk screen , use an autorouter and randomly disperse the connection pads all over the pcb.It takes a while to learn to read and write decent software, just as it takes a while to read and write VHDL and schematics. And we all know schematics that are unreadable because they were not drawn by a decent HW engineer.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 09:35:53 pm
content: There's nothing wrong about programming Arduino without understanding how transistors work. As electronics becomes increasingly complex, it is nearly impossible to learn absolutely everything about it. You just run out of your lifetime trying. So we have to narrow our specialization. Back in the days single engineer could design whole TV set, today it is job of multiple departments of specialized analog electronics, digital electronics and software engineers.Those who complain that "hobbyists" copy-paste Arduino projects without understanding how stuff works, can read Popular Electronics archives. Back in the days people copied ROM contents without understanding how assembler works. So what? The beauty of discovery - first you build, then you discover how it works.Attach: January 1980 issue ofPopular Electronics

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 09:38:22 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 05, 2019, 09:19:48 pmEvery idiot can resize.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 09:59:11 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on August 05, 2019, 09:38:22 pmDemonstrably untrue.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 10:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 03, 2019, 02:06:52 pmThe way I read that first post is: ‘lots of beginners in electronics spend a lot of time in the virtual world of software where to a certain extent you can write your own rules and create an imaginary world that behaves the way only you think it should. Out in the cold, hard real world there are subjects like power electronics and RF a whole lot of other specialist disciplines that are way more difficult than dragging and dropping something on a screen.’ These people may go on to build things that don’t work properly. They don’t know why and neither do their peers.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 10:17:36 pm
content: Uh huh. Those large pics would almost ruin an otherwise perfectly sensible thread in which people were conversing courteously and absolutely not insulting the OP.That's really bad, and certainly deserved more insults.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 11:44:54 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 05, 2019, 10:17:36 pmWhat else did you expect? That 1MByte photo bomb you posted is insult itself. Especially considering that analog engineers are minority today.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 11:55:42 pm
content: it's just the evolution I guess, they disguise now as EE

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 01:51:07 am
content: Quote from: techman-001 on August 03, 2019, 11:42:41 pmHardly!Large numbers of valve mantel sets & portables were made & sold in the years after WW2.Many of them were sold by the local electrical retailer ---- the bloke you bought toasters & fridges from.Yes, relatively speaking, they were expensive, but not prohibitedly so.If you wanted secondhand, some dealers, & many secondhand furniture shops could look after your wants.A bit sophisticated, like HF equipment?-------- see your disposals place.At Andy's in Perth, you could pick up everything from an Avro Anson engine, through a set of Hupmobile headlights, to a number 22 transceiver, & tons of valves!QuoteThe number of Transistor portable radios exploded in the next few years following the release of the Regency TR1.RTV & H magazine published a design for a full sized transistor portable within a couple of years, Philips, among others, had slightly smaller transistor sets on sale (the one with the square press buttons on the top).There were a plethora of Japanese pocket transistor radios making their way into Oz, picked up by travellers, & the first few imports were making themselves felt.When I began work in 1959 (at age 15) at Atkins (WA) Ltd, that company had a good selection of the Philips/Mullard "OC" series of germanium transistors, AWA had the "2N" series, & so on.Slightly later, we also stocked the Admiral 8K2 full sized 8 transistor portable, which was much prized by people in remote regions for its high sensitivity, & its rotatable loopstick sntenna, which allowed for some rudimentary direction finding.( it was ugly as sin, though!).I had a friend who had a remote control model powerboat in that era, which used a motor driving a thread, with a "nut" on it, linked to the rudder.The polarity to the motor was indeed changed with a relay, to turn left or right.From memory, the control was in the form of groups of pulses of different duration.Some more sophisticated control systems used tuning forks at both ends, the tones corresponding to the control functions.By the mid '60s, solid state was well established in domestic stuff----TVs were a hold out for quite a while, because the high frequencies involved entailed the use of expensive devices if you went for solid state.Most of the stuff I built in the late 1950s, & throughout the '60s was valve based, because they were still dirt cheap at the disposals places, or for newer types, I could get house price from work (until I left Atkins).By & large, I didn't build a lot of stuff--- made Mum a 4 valve mantel set, & the R & H "Set for yound Dx-ers" for myself.I bought a "number11" transceiver,& played around with it, but organising a smoothed 6 volt supply for the filaments (It used mainly directly heated tubes) was pretty much insurmountable, on my wage, as was changing to indirectly heated tubes.When I went to the PMG's Dept in 1965, I dscovered that Solid State had penetrated into commecal equipment quite heavily.At Wyndham (in WA) in 1967, we had all solid state HF receivers, the associated transmitters were solid state up to the driver stages.The VHF & UHF radio links to Kununurra were all solid state.At the same time, the 12 channel voice & 12 channel telegraph systems on the landline were all valve/ tube based.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 01:02:57 pm
content: Thanx a lot, brothers in EEThis forum is best place to rest in peace

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 01:57:17 pm
content: My father told me that in the years following WW2 it was a hobbyist heaven, as tons of surplus electronics equipment were available by the boatload.Most had been stripped of sensitive (confidential) components, but there were dozens of goodies which, aided by a 150 watt soldering iron, you could de-solder and stow for later projects.Which meant you had to start from scratch, basically after reading an electronics magazine or a book in the library.My grandmother used to tell us that my father took the cupboard in his room where underwear and socks would be usually be placed, put all of that in cardboard boxes, and store all his precious junk there.Thus I understand where the OP is coming from: back then, the electronics hobby was much rawer, much more primitive, and would either shock or burn you if you were not careful. It required a little more sweat assembling a project, significant amounts of elbow time, and a good understanding the very basic electronic principles.But that was then, well over 70 years ago. Technology has evolved. Nowadays everything revolves around software.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 04:43:00 pm
content: Yes go ahead built an IoT device from 70 yr old components or only transistorsThings change.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 05:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 06, 2019, 01:02:57 pmThat was a fun one.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 08:16:26 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 06, 2019, 04:43:00 pmChange is the only constant in our lives it's true, but it's also surprising how some things stay the same.How about building a PSU to run a Microprocessor and LED from 40 mV DC, how will IoT help you do that ?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 09:06:01 pm
content: IoT, order your things on the internet: Aliexpress meanwell psu40mV ? Which uC runs on 40mV ?Hey but I am a certified graduated EE who has never been able to work as an EE since no one was hiring EEs anymore and that was iver 25 yrs agoBut the discussion was about Arduino which I think of as Lego to do something fast. Never used it myself I have my own yelleybean micros like the stm8 for that stuff but the principle stays the same.If you need to program a peripheral chip you read the datasheet and think at the same time how you would program it.Then before you start you google for two hours which braniacs on this planet have done this before you, look at their open source code and either laugh at the garbage or see that they had the same way you thought of or even come to the conclusion they yad a better idea.And yes I had those experiences that I saw an implementation that was way better or more abstracted than I had in mind.So there is nothing wrong with borrowing or improving on the work of others, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time yourself from scratch, at keast not with software.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 09:14:07 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 06, 2019, 09:06:01 pmEEVblog #664 - Peltier TEG Energy Harvesting Experimentshttps://youtu.be/9aSPopIcKLQ?t=1

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 09:47:20 pm
content: I not only don't see the problem, I revel in its existence.When I started fooling around with digital back about 1970, we had NC machines on the floor with 2 flops per card (3x4" ?). At the time, I was buying flops in RTL logic with one per 14 pin package. Today I can buy a million logic gates in a single chip. A virtual dumpster load of logic where I can play for the rest of my life. Entire CPUs in a package the size of a postage stamp. If I don't like the design, I can change the code. And I don't have to wire-wrap anything!On a smaller scale, even if I want to use a TTL flop, I have to square up the input transitions (debounce) and that takes even more circuitry, probably an RS flop made from NAND gates. Doing it with discrete components is nonsense.I haven't used a transistor in an active circuit in decades - op amps are way better and easier to use. I can dial in any gain I want with a couple of resistors. Yes, the transistor amplifier may have higher bandwidth but I don't generally need it. I do use transistors as power switches but that's fairly trivial.As to Arduino: It turns out these are showing up in BSME courses. MEs sooner or later have to control things and the Arduino is about as simple as it gets. Learning to use them is now called a 'soft skill'. It is just assumed that new grads know these things even if they aren't in the curriculum. MATLAB and Excel are also 'soft skills' - things that are just assumed.The world is changing and the old ways are obsolete. There is no way in the world I am going to solve Differential Equations by hand it I can get MATLAB to do the work. I am certainly not going to do slope fields by hand when I can use the 'quiver' function. Or even use Euler's Formula and Fortran to step through the points. I'm lazy!Things are so much better today! We can concentrate on the application and not on the boring arithmetic.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 10:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 06, 2019, 09:06:01 pmNiklaus Wirth described this as "stepwise refinement".I spend more time with the datasheets and less time with Google. Often times you see solutions that worked on some prior generation and are totally inappropriate for the latest and greatest hardware. It's always worth a glance but I tend to trust my own code. At least I can understand it.And I like Arduino! Everything that can possibly be done with that small chip has been done and it's out on the Internet for everyone to see. It's a great learning tool and a good place to start. No, it's not the be-all, end-all, of embedded processors but it's a start.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 10:17:47 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 05, 2019, 12:07:16 amWhy wouldn't I connect up dozens of Arduinos on an RS485 bus? I could have devices all over the plant doing really useful things. Energy savings projects come to mind. Lighting control, HVAC control, alarm systems (monitoring), whatever!The world of control is wide open to new technology. We don't need a mainframe to determine that a waste tank is getting full and needs to be serviced. Heck, I could gather up all this information and present it on a web page. I could do all of that with a Raspberry Pi.Think beyond the trivial examples. The Arduino is faster than the minicomputers of the mid '70s. The Arduino Mega2560 is a respectable device.And you don't have to use the Arduino libraries, you can easily roll your own after spending some time with the datasheet.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2019, 11:44:12 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 06, 2019, 10:17:47 pmDo You really trust in noname atmega based pcbs in industrial applications? What about new Fukusima?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2019, 02:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 07, 2019, 11:44:12 amWhy not? Has someone come up with a failure mechanism that is specific to Arduino? At the end of the day, something like the Arduino Nano is nothing more than a carrier board to support an ATmega328 and the alternative would be to replicate the board components on another board. To my knowledge, there are no known failure modes for the ATmega328 itself (within its stated operating limits). Worst case, develop the application on an Arduino, program the DIP version of the chip and just port the chip to a purpose designed board.Fukushima is irrelevant to this discussion as is any comparison of a small time plant versus the rigor of the nuclear industry. Fukushima was a result of placing the backup generators where they could be destroyed by a tsunami. Simple as that. I spent years in that industry (at a tangential level) and nothing they do is done based on a single sensor. At a minimum, decisions are based on two out of three diverse measurements. The Control Systems course I took in college, back around '72, was taught by a fellow from Gulf General Atomics. It was interesting!And nowhere in a nuclear power plant will you find something as simple as an Arduino. Nor will you find them in warships, airplanes, satellites or spaceships. But they would be entirely adequate for many simple plants where risk is low.The bigger risk is using open source software in development. OTOH, using closed source software is also a risk. How do you KNOW that the compiler/linker got the right answer. Proof of correctness is still based on assumptions. Has anybody really tested that all possible additions of two 32 bit numbers yields the correct answer? Every single one? Or do we just test a few boundary conditions and call it good?One of the benefits of using something like an Arduino is that it has been used in millions of applications all over the world. If there was a problem, we would know about it. The issue would be flaming across the Internet and that isn't happening (to my knowledge). A lesser used board or a purpose designed board wouldn't have the same level of review. The Arduino could actually be a preferred option.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 10:40:16 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 07, 2019, 02:00:20 pmDark time is coming

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 10:51:55 am
content: You can get Atmega128 in a rad hard, space qualified version, that would be capable of controling something in nuclear reactor, provided it's engineered right. I would trust that much more than some crap made with outdated technology...

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 11:04:01 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 08, 2019, 10:51:55 amOh the irony ..."Some crap made with outdated technology" ... like the 2N3055 introduced in early 1960 ?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 11:17:28 am
content: Quote from: techman-001 on August 08, 2019, 11:04:01 amLOL...

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 12:06:03 pm
content: There is also the fact that we notice and remember the most stupid and inept ones, even if they are rare.You know the type: money comes from an ATM, electricity from the wall socket, and no need to kill animals as you can buy meat from a grocery store. The ones who know nothing about physics, math, geometry, geography, or history, but can talk to you for hours about the lives of some "celebrities" and their opinions.I encounter those online and occasionally see their antics from a distance in real life. The teenagers I interacti with, however, seem very much a different bunch, and tend to surprise me positively.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 12:32:47 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 08, 2019, 10:51:55 amYou know an Arduino is almost the exact same technology as the ATMega128, rad hard or not? Besides, you'd more likely opt for chips specifically designed for fault tolerance like the Texas Instruments Hercules chips. These are used in airbag, railway and other systems where things absolutely have to work. Two cores flipped in different orientations in one package do the same calculation and then compare the result. Memory can be set to ECC mode. Those don't come in explicitly radiation hardened variants but information about how the chips respond to radiation is available under an NDA which strongly suggests they've done the work and can make guarantees.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 12:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 08, 2019, 12:32:47 pmFault tolerant systems using multiple separate CPU's (even heterogeneous CPU systems) are very old. You can ( and they have been made) with any CPU's, with different reliability targets.Fault tolerant CPU on a chip is actually less reliable, to the extent. Whatever you do, if you need those kinds of things (hi rel), risk analysis is done and reliability is calculated and engineered on a system level.CPU is just one component..My point is that OP's blanket rant is just.....

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 04:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 04, 2019, 08:36:03 amYeaMedieval tale about sinners, isn`t it?You criticism is abouit my person. But You can`t say something about my idea

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 05:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 08, 2019, 04:59:07 pmYou mean the doomsday prophecy that has been heard literally every generation in human history and turned out to be correct in very rare cases and by pure chance? Even a broken clock..

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 05:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 08, 2019, 04:59:07 pmYour idea is that in order to use something, one must understand every principle and detail about it and be able to build it from scratch?What are you doing on a modern computer then?Our technology today is just way too advanced to be totally understood or replicated by one individual. But through abstraction, even a noob can build things that would seem impossible to the brightest engineers a few decades ago. There is no reason besides elitism and nostalgy to see anything bad in this process.And I don't quite get how people brought reliability to this discussion, nobody is planning on controlling nuclear reactors or airbags with arduinos. But Atmegas are widely used in mission-critical aerospace applications, so an arduino, just as most other dev-kits of the chip manufacturers, certainly isn't inappropriate for early prototyping of such systems.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 05:48:54 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on August 08, 2019, 05:40:23 pmIs it a sin?

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2019, 06:30:08 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 08, 2019, 05:48:54 pmGo pray 10 rosaries my son, and your sins shall be forgiven.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 02:53:20 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on August 08, 2019, 06:30:08 pmWhat? Repeat holy code? So many unremembered сodes became prayers. Dark times everywere

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 03:49:52 pm
content: The preconception that each and every problem must be approached from the ground up is nonsense. It surely helps to do it that way, but in reality you often get in contact to a certain technology or problem on some (OSI-) layer and then work your way up or down, depending on what you want.Curious people will try to find the extreme ends, others might be happy where they are.The rest of the problem is just a question of self-assessment and which statements or decisions are made, but that´s got nothing to do with the layer someone is working on, wrong statements and bad decisions can be made on every layer.