Keysight - are parts still in our future ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 04:54:42 am
content: I noticed that Keysight lists no parts for some newer series products like the 3000T scopes. Is it just too new or is this a trend we're going to see more of.My 34401A has been my goto DMM for critical measurements for a number of years. I have a 34461A at the office and was about to buy one for myself, and was thinking of selling the 34401A for financial reasons. I don't want this to be like refrigerators. My 37 year old Amana will still be cooling after your $3500 flat panel computer, ice cube making, dog grooming, cold water dispensing wonder from Korea has died 3 deaths.Would I be foolish to not keep the 34401A for backup AND to not buy the 3 - 4 year added insurance. Will we ever see a replacement display for the 34461A? (perhaps we shall but only if the original was not a customized product)If it weren't for the flashy new (and some useful) features, I'd like to go back in time to when things were built to last, not to last until the warranty expired.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:42:10 am
content: Yep. I plan for failure. If I buy something I plan to get rid of it at the end of its supported / warranty life. Divide that by the number of months and decide if I can afford it or not. If it lasts past that, I'm riding on luck and expect to buy a replacement at zero minutes notice.Really the integration is better these days so the only problems you tend to see on equipment is power supply problems, panel and display problems and physical damage. Occasionally manufacturing flaws appear (BGA packages) but that's about it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 10:24:50 am
content: Agreed and it seems more standard parts are being used. It wouldn't surprise me if you can buy a new display for the 34461A from Ebay because it is standard.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 04:52:04 pm
content: I scratched one display cover of one of my early 34461A and wanted to get a new one from Keysight.The answer was that this part is not available for sale.But for lots of $$$ they wanted to install a new one for me, if I send the instrument in for repair.I just copied the design of the window and had a few pieces precision cut, out of poly-carbonate(Macrolon) at the local plastic fabrication place and replaced the scratched on.For newer models, I think we can expect less and less parts available.Even Keysight repair people have no access to component level schematics anymore.To answer your question:Keep a 34401 around for the next 20 years !

author: ralphrmartin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 11, 2018, 08:42:10 amBatteries are a big issue, too (OK, I suppose that comes under power supply problems). I've had more than one MacBook fail due to a swollen battery, which presses on the touchpad, stopping it working. We won't even mention trick exploding phone batteries...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:16:13 pm
content: Agree with batteries.Incidentally this is test gear batteries done right. AIM TTi / Thurlby Thandar TF930 counter.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:19:05 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 11, 2018, 08:16:13 pmI would have liked to seen them put in a place where spewing their guys out doesn't risk functional parts of the board, but otherwise I agree with the sentiment.Other than that, I think the availability of parts and the willingness to help you get and install them is what sets apart a great company from the average or even budget outfit. If this is where Keysight is going, it's another sign that they might not be the market leaders they were for so long.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:52:45 pm
content: That costs more money these days. The biggest cost is labour. It's generally cheaper just to scrap the unit and send a new one out if it's going to take more than a couple of hours of someone's time. There is a price point at which this has diminishing returns however so you're not going to see VNAs with broken buttons chucked in a skip.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 11, 2018, 08:52:45 pmJust provide parts and a half decent schematic or manual. The Keysight commons on why they don't do this were of course rubbish.

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 12:55:36 am
content: Well, good news todayI sold my TDS694C so the 34401A stays and may have a baby brother/sister soon. But High Voltage's display window experience has bummed me out.But it also reminded me of an IEEE Spectrum article 24 Oct 2017,Why We Must Fight for the Right to Repair Our ElectronicsPending U.S. legislation could force manufacturers to make repair parts and information available at fair pricesIt would sure be sweet if test equipment were covered, but I guess our stuff is industrial and probably will not count.Keysight could lead the pack and generate untold amounts of good will to the daytime purchasers of their gear. This would probably take an epoch battle between bean counters and technical staff, similar to the Civil War

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 12:59:13 am
content: Quote from: EE-digger on April 12, 2018, 12:55:36 amYou can have the right to repair, but the manufacturers also can have the right not to supply spare parts forever.

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 01:08:01 am
content: That's only fair. So, offer parts and documentation for 3 - 5 years beyond end of support, then sell off inventories to third party.At the rate we're going the only replacement parts will be from scrap units.A while back, I spoke to a NYC firm about converting several priceless family Sony 1/2" VTR tapes. When I asked how they managed to still support this format (from the mid 70's), I was told that they had a back room packed with old machines like the PortaPak.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 01:12:24 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 12, 2018, 12:59:13 amThat's true, but they would be shooting themselves in the foot as they also can no longer repair the units themselves.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 01:15:01 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 12, 2018, 01:10:13 amRemember, this also needs someone that can "properly" do the boring shitty jobs, like documentation, paper works etc for the repaired item, and then re-packaging the stuffs "properly", print, label it "properly" and etc, before handling over to the shipping courier.That alone probably takes or equivalent of another 1 or 2 man hours maybe ?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 01:27:20 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 12, 2018, 01:12:24 amI think its logical and also makes sense, that once the product is discontinued, and its beyond the standard warranty or on average with those have maintenance contracts, its pointless and will cost dearly to the company to stock pile the spare parts just because want to maintain these so called "enthusiasts" (me included) that want to fix their own stuffs.Unless they're consumables like soldering tips and etc, this is also continuously and closely monitored, cause once the stock pile is dead buried in the warehouse, its become burden that waiting for the accounting dept to do the cleaning job to wipe off the excess inventory, and made a big hole in the company's general ledger, and usually boss or bosses hate that. And if you're smart, trust me, you do NOT want to have these negative attentions from the bosses on these matter.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 08:24:37 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 12, 2018, 01:10:13 amYep. When I bought my U1241C I actually phoned the local Keysight office and asked them what happens if it goes wonky in 3y warranty period and they said they just send a new one out when they receive my one and confirm it is actually broken. No repair would be done.Over 3y that's £7.90 / $10 a month (two DT830s). Worth it. I might even get it calibrated yearly. Costs $60 for that here.MUCH cheaper to run than a lot of the older kit that was repairable.