Multimeter recommendations - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 04:52:31 am
content: Hi,My old meter is broken so I'm in the market to look for a new one. My budget is around $100.My first choice was a second hand Fluke 177, almost bought it, then found it does not even have uA range! This is so ridiculous since even a $10 meter has one. You need to climb all the way to 87 to have uA. Shocking.So now I'm looking for alternatives. I'm just a hobby user but am a bit picky. Here are the requirements:1) Must have uA - Everyone has it except the damn Fluke.2) <0.5% accuracy, ideally <0.1%.3) At least 4000 counts, the more the better.4) Good analog bar with >=30hz refreshing rate.5) Good, uniform backlight.6) Capacitance range up to 4,000 uF.7) True RMSQuick continuity test, ideally latched - I only know Fluke fits this bill. Who else?9) Fast measurement, ideally <1sec to obtain a stable reading from touching the probe.10) Not too big.11) Ideally have temperature, but not essential.I have considered several meters:Amprobe AM-270: All good but backlight is not good, also too big. 32cm long!Amprobe AM-530: Not that accurate, also heard the measuring speed is slowKlein Tools MM2000: Not sure about measuring speed and continuity latchingUNI-T UT60H: No backlightUNI-T UT61E: No backlightHioki 3804-50: Fast measuring speed but no backlight and no RMSAm I asking too much? I hope not! Can you please make some recommendations?Thanks!

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 05:19:14 am
content: I did some mini reviews on 3 Mastech multimeters in another thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/mastech-ms-8233e-ms-8240d-and-ms-8250c/Out of the 3 the MS8250C is my favourite and it actually fits your requirements quite well. It's quoted at 0.5% DCV accuracy but my unit is a fair bit more accurate than that. DealExtreme has it for sale at $56.8 with free shipping.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 05:19:46 am
content: The UT61E is a good one if you don't need backlight but the thing is ... do you do electronics in the dark?i never needed the backlight even in areas with 20lm (Yes my ceiling lights gone awry) because of the excellent contrast you get with UNI-TI see none of the problems you are having though, the +/- 10 counts might seem like it's going to be out of the box but WAIT, it's spec'd by UNI-T for 1 year drift. Frankly, 10 counts doesn't mean the last 10 counts are uselessBUT WAIT! That's on the AC voltage range.A dear 87v is +/- 1 counts from 6V onwards (not sure about the "high-res" mode), this is 0.1% +/- 2 counts from 2 to 220V rated.QuoteAnd I shall copypasta what i wrote beforeQuoteAbout the fuse, you can install HRC fuse sockets because the footprints are thereThe fuse is indeed HRC at 6kA being a mains fuse! But it's only rated to 250VAC and not DCMy recommendation is to try out the same 10A 30kA 10x38 siba fuses agilent uses, 10x38 will fit in the 1A fuse socket with a bit of fuse holder bending or you can use a 500mA 1000V 6.3x32mm 30kA-50kA fuse, just remember to silicone the exposed holes, might lead to arc overs"Sparkgaps" Go ahead and install a MOV there of some reasonable ratingNeeds a bit of fiddling to be safe but it's alright considering this meter only costs 50$ (roughly)

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 05:20:31 am
content: Of all you have listed, the AM-270 is the best buy. It is big, but it is capable and has the right parts inside for safety. The only complaint you have about it are size, and possibly poor back light. I have not seen one in person but these seem like rather little gripes compared to all the other benefits it has.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 05:26:24 am
content: As far as T4P liking the UT61E, I agree it is a good buy. But if you want back light, and not have to modify a new meter to bring it up to higher safety standards, and and and...Do not assume that adding a voltage limiting device inside the UT61E of some random value and design is going to be safe.It might be what they left out on purpose to meet the CAT rating. It is possible that the MOV or sparkgap blew up during testing and caused a hazard. Adding some random part of your choosing could be a recipe for a catastrophic failure should things go wrong.And really T4P, you are beginning to look like a fanatic with your UT61E

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 05:45:34 am
content: If you're not worried about input protection, have a look at the Uni-T UT71B, although it might be too big for you.Continuity is latched, but a bit slow. For the rest, it should meet your requirements.20,000 count, Caps up to 200mF and internal data logging.The screen and backlight are good and it does temperature too.http://www.uni-trend.com/UT71B.html

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 05:54:15 am
content: Extech makes some smaller meters, like the EX430, but cap measurement is limited to 100uF.http://www.extech.com/instruments/resources/datasheets/EX400series.pdf

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 06:01:45 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 20, 2012, 05:26:24 amYeah i am, but there's a GS-approved version floating around with a sparkgap but only rated to CATIII 600V mainly because of a 690V-only capable fuse they fit. But i will test it's high voltage isolation at 1kVThe reason i'm not confident about amprobe ishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/teardown-amprobe-am-270-digital-multimeter/msg71654/#msg71654Bad backlight and worsened by a lack of a diffuser.AM-530 : Slow continuity but tilting bail looks like the UT61's tilting bailThe biggest issue with the UNI-T is that AC should only be AC, any AC superimposed on DC will screw it up on the AC rangeI'm not sure about DC but a bridge rectifier with 1 failed diode made it go wonkySo i know for sure the filtering on it is kaput

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 06:24:35 am
content: There is also the CEM DT-9927, but again cap measurement is below your requirement at 1000uF.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Waterproof-Digital-Multimeter-CEM-DT-9927-1000-F-760-/271009765742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1970d96e

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:09:31 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on November 20, 2012, 05:19:14 amThanks. How did you find its speed, both measure and bar refresh? And where can you buy 8250D?

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:16:17 am
content: Quote from: T4P on November 20, 2012, 05:19:46 amI can certainly live without the backlight, as none of my crappy meters have one. But it just feels good as a nice feature of a new meter lol!

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:21:01 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 20, 2012, 05:20:31 amAgreed. The AM270 is my second choice (after Fluke), but the size is really horrible. It is 30cm long, just like a brick!Yes it almost fit all the bills. It's even got a cheap price for the best accuracy. But so sad that it was let down by the size and the poorly designed backlight. I am willing to pay an extra $20 if they fix these 2 cons.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:28:51 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on November 20, 2012, 05:45:34 amYes I'm not too fuss about safety, as I don't take it out for electrical work.Also the size is good. It is only 20cm so much smaller than the AM-270.Yes it is almost good but, there is always a but. The bar refresh is only 10hz. Why there is always something let it down?

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:29:41 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on November 20, 2012, 05:54:15 amThat's a show stopper, unfortunately.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:37:04 am
content: So now do you feel I'm too picky? There's always something that ruined an otherwise very good product.And the reason why I'm so serious about bar refresh rate is that the scum who designed the VC99 is a con artist. It looks like has a nice analog bar, but the value is directly linked to the main digit, and refresh at the same time! That's completely defeated the purpose of an analog bar.So for a $100 meter, a fast measure and fast refreshing bar is a must have. I am always wary of a meter that has a bar but doesn't specify refresh rate.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:45:07 am
content: 30Hz bar graph refresh is quite a requirement for a 100$ meter. You're in Agilent territory there, I think.An interesting feature of the 71B bar graph, is that one can move the zero to the middle of the screen for a display of +/- voltages and currents.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 08:05:16 am
content: UT61E's bar graph is about 20Hz and that's not too fast i think the others should be able to go fasterMaybe franky can help us find the CEM DT-9938 which should cost less than a DT-9919 that is about 100$It's also a ES51922 based DMM that is full of all the features and comes with HRC fuses supposedly but CEM is one of the OEMs of most Extechsand has got temperature! I think it's got Relative but no picturesAnd the DT-9919. Why do i mention it?About the price of a UT71A but has HRC fuses. But roughly better i thinkThere's one issue with CEM meters, being extech's OEM the spongy switch existsStep up to 200+$ categoryDT-9929 these are the interesting onesCurrent loop + dual display and logging capability and so much more over the DT-9919) Around the price of an UT71EDT-9939Over the DT-9929 you get what they call "Wireless USB" I have no idea what that meansBest part? They are all IP67!

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:00:28 am
content: Quote from: eeshock on November 20, 2012, 07:09:31 amDisplay update rate is a decent 3 times per second, faster than the 61E, bar graph I'll have to check again when I'm home, i didn't pay much attention to that. Continuity and auto ranging are lightning fast. You can find it at dx.com.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:27:40 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on November 20, 2012, 07:45:07 amNo. The Amprobe has itAmprobe AM-270: 60hz!Amprobe AM-520: 30hz. This is a $40 meter!The Fluke 177 is 40hz. I used to admire Fluke, now hate it for delibrately omitting the uA range. I put the 177 at the same level of a $100 meter. They are over priced.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:34:43 am
content: Quote from: T4P on November 20, 2012, 08:05:16 amCEM's spec sheet is so sparse. Where can you download a full spec? Even their official site has only a few lines of spec (both Chinese and English version)

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:50:05 am
content: Quote from: eeshock on November 20, 2012, 07:21:01 am30cm can't be right, that's the length of a forearm!! Are you sure?

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:51:53 am
content: Not that i have any idea ...Quote from: iloveelectronics on November 20, 2012, 09:50:05 amHe's not jokinghttp://www.tequipment.net/AmprobeAM-270.html317mm length WTF

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 10:00:33 am
content: Quote from: T4P on November 20, 2012, 09:51:53 amUnless that guy in the video holding the meter is a real giant I can't see how the meter could possibly be 317mm long!!

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 10:10:30 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on November 20, 2012, 10:00:33 amHow I wish I was joking. Check the official datasheet yourself.http://www.amprobe.com/Amprobe/usen/Multimeters/Industrial-Multimeters-/AM-270.htm?PID=73125

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 10:20:36 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on November 20, 2012, 09:00:28 amJust checked the MS8250D manual again. It says digital display is updated 2.5 times per second, but I timed 85 updates in a 30 second period, which is close to 3 times/sec, in V, R and AC current ranges. DC Current measurement is only undated once per second. Analog display is claimed to be updated 25 times per second, I don't know how to verify but it looks smooth enough for me.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 10:32:45 am
content: I'm also going to be offering the Brymen BM-257 for sale very soon.http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/cata250/Bm250s.htmIt fits and exceeds your requirements except capacitance, only up to 3000uF, and that it will be priced higher than $100 shipped.

author: Jigsawc5
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 11:23:04 am
content: Let me offer a slight correction as to the size of the Amprobe AM-270. The data sheets that show 317mm length or whatever has been discussed here. That measurement is for the clear clamshell packaging that the meter comes in.The actual physical size of the Amprobe AM-270 per the manual:Without Holster = 186mm/7.3in (L) x 87mm/3.4in (W) x 35.5mm/1.4in (H)With Holster = 198mm/7.8in (L) x 97mm/3.8in (W) x 55mm/2.2in (H)

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 11:30:20 am
content: Still larger than a UT61E or roughly same size as a MS8240D, i scared the shit out of myself

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 12:14:12 pm
content: I have just finished watching Martin's excellent video review of BRYMEN BM867. Very impressive. It can even challenge Fluke 287 in some areas. So I checked the its little brother, BRYMEN BM857A. The 857A is very similar to 867 in most areas, only missing the dual display.Here are the headline features that's very attractive:50,000 counts (500,000 counts in DCV high resolution mode)42 Segments/60Hz5x/s sampling rate0.03% accuracyUp to 9999uFCost 107 EURSo for 30% higher price, it is at least 2 steps above the $100 crop.The only con I can find is the backlight. Is it very terrible?So now since Amprobe AM-270's size has been corrected, I'm torn between them. They are roughly the same size, good in almost every way, and share the same bad backlight! BRYMEN BM857A is at least 50% more expensive, but has much better resolution and accuracy.Or should I bite the bullet and go for the 867. That should have absolutely zero cons?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 01:06:28 pm
content: Quote from: eeshock on November 20, 2012, 12:14:12 pmIf you can really get a BM-857a near the 107 Euro price after tax and shipping, I'd say go for it. Brymen makes really nice multimeters.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 01:46:58 pm
content: 60Hz is getting close to most LCD screens max refresh rate. Make sure the one in the Brymen can actually handle that, without artifacts.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 02:03:08 pm
content: EESHOCK:So now you are upping your budget? If so then yes the Brymens are worth the money. The Amprobe AM140/60 are also but you are doubling your price and more. If you want to stay below your initial $100 budget then the Amprobe AM-270 is still the best meter for the money.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 02:10:32 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 20, 2012, 02:03:08 pmYes I agree. Including shipping, the Amprobe is about A$100, the Brymens is approaching A$160. But its spec is really tempting. It is better than the $400 Fluke 87-V... I need to cool down a bit and decide later.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 02:16:07 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on November 20, 2012, 01:46:58 pmI've see the video of the 867 and the refreshing is nearly instant. I believe the 7 segment LCD has a better response time and less lag than the Fluke 287's VGA type screen. 60hz is as good as you can get, so I'm not asking more...The one thing I miss the most after converting to DVM is the needle movement. The analog bar will hopefully compensate the loss somewhat.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 03:14:55 pm
content: Yeah the matrix display on the fluke 287/89 is rubbish, anything more than 5Hz and you get ghosting

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 08:54:59 pm
content: I picked up a Brymen 857 (not A) a while back. So far I'm really happy with it. I'm not sure what they upgraded on the A version, but the only real issue I have is that the thing runs off a 9V battery and there is no battery door. You have to take the whole back off the meter to change the battery. Not a deal breaker by any means, but not really ideal either. The backlight does kind of suck in that it's not that bright and it's uneven, but it also does work and that feature isn't really important to me anyway. The fuses in my non-A version are not the bigger diameter HRC ones, but 3AG size ceramics. I'm good with that though. I have a fluke112 for high energy stuff. I got this one for accuracy, not high energy. I know their other models do use the larger HRC fuses. That might have been one of the things they changed in the A version.Like I said, I don't know what they changed in the 857A version, but the non-A version I have is great for what I want to use it for.These Brymens are not quite fluke quality, but as far as I'm concerned it's only one step down and a great value for money. Brymen are like the Rigol of the multimeter world. Speaking of, where are the Rigol hand held multimeters? They seem to have everything else.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:37:44 pm
content: Rigol isn't a step down from the big names3AG fuses actually if you look it up can handle 30kA if it's a SIBA

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:53:23 pm
content: Does anyone know how long is the warranty on Amprobe and Brymen? I can imagine the warranty on the Brymen will be shorter, and possibly more difficult to claim if things broken. But Amprobe is probably same story if shipped outside US.

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2012, 10:16:07 pm
content: Crazy idea. Has anyone tried to add diffuser to the Amprobe or Brymen to improve their backlight quality?

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2013, 12:03:18 am
content: I have finally bought the Amprobe AM-270 from Amazon for $76. Generally happy with the product and it fit almost all my requirements. Accuracy is good enough, and bar graph refresh is also fast enough.I will not repeat the major pros and crons as you easily find them on the web. Here is some of my minor points:The 50 ohm range can perform an auto delta to elimilate the test lead resistances. Certainly not as good as 4 wire but still a nice touch.The LCD back light is still my biggest disappointment. It is actually worse than I thought. 4 dots of dim LEDs barely illuminate the whole area. A cheap ebay LCD can give you nice, uniform backlighting, why this one can't? They seem to still living in the 1970's.The other issue is the test lead. They seem to be over zealous on the safety side. Almost the entire lead is covered by insulation, only leaves 1.5mm bare metal near the tip to work with. This is again not acceptable for me. As I like to use one hand to hold both leads, chopstick style, to measure resistors and capacitors. Such a small contact area makes it very difficult to maintain a steady contact (and I'm born to use chopsticks) . My workaround is to use a utility knife to cut all the insulations so now I have about 1cm metal area to make the measurement much easier.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2013, 12:52:41 am
content: How accurate is the thermocouple on that thing?

author: eeshock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2013, 03:18:16 am
content: Temperature is not on my list, however if I got time may test it out.But is boiling water exactly 100 degree? It also depends on altitude and maybe some other factors so how can you make accurate measurement?

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2013, 12:05:30 pm
content: Uni-T UT71D looks pretty impressive in terms of accuracy, shame about the slow update rate on >=4000 count modes and pathetic continuity tester. Can be had for about $140.