A 3rd hand that actually works! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 08:33:10 pm
content: $10 Aliexpress magnetic indicator holders with alligator clips crimped to round terminal lugs.The indicator stands clamp with a single knob so it really stays where you put it.Have Fun!Reg

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 08:52:02 pm
content: I have been using Noga versions for 40 years.https://www.noga.com/Products/hold/Holding%20System$10 is quite a bargain.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 10:28:57 pm
content: Nice. I've also been using a near-identical solution, I find the "magic arm" helpful since it's easy to quite precisely position with it.I wish I had seen the $10 option, mine cost a bit more. I used steel offcut as in the photo below (that is available at low cost from various ebay sellers or metal scrap yards perhaps), I think it weighed just under a kilogram. The offcuts often have a small notch that is easy to fill with epoxy if desired. I spray-painted it afterwards, that's not in the photo.After tapping it with a camera thread (1/4"-20 UNC) then any camera magic arm can be fitted (I used a Smallrig 10" Magic Arm with Super Clamp in the photo below). The photo shows it in use holding a cable temporarily in position while soldering to a connector (the connector is in a cheap alu tool vise).

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 11:18:17 pm
content: I have a 6" Noga with the fine adjustment. Really nice for the machine shop, but rather pricey to solder wires. The 12" version has a Noga equivalent fine adjustment.I'm planning to use a pair of the 12" arms to hold a light and vacuum pickup on my Chinese Deckel clone from Shars. So I moved the fine adjustment to one of the 6" ones earlier and will do the other one soon. Those will get better magnetic bases.Without the magnets they are less than $7 for the 6" and $10 for the 12".With minor effort they can be made functionally the equal of the Noga, just not as pretty. I plan to drill and tap my Clausing lathe and mill to mount several of these for common tasks. I've just never entirely trusted magnetic mounts.Helluva deal it you work at it.Have Fun!RegEdit: I subsequently realized that clamps that attached to the table edge were more stable and convenient as they can be spaced as needed.

author: rcjoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 07:29:57 am
content: Here's what I use, with Noga indicator arms.Heat shrink tubing over the alligator clip jaws help to reduce damage to what's being held.Noga's copy of Kant-Twist clamps can also be used in place of the alligator clips.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 07:45:14 am
content: Excellent idea. Thanks for the tip on the heat shrink. I plan a number of different holding devices that I can qucikly swap.Have Fun!Reg

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 07:53:31 am
content: I recently got:Before that I had the usual garbage type that I never used.I've had very good experience with these because they have complete freedom.They can hold a bit more weight than you'd think, for example it held a Keithley 2000 board (about it's limit I'd say).Curious how you guys found this type in comparison to the lathe holding block things you guys are using?Quote from: rcjoy on December 30, 2023, 07:29:57 amI used to do that but found that it didn't work as well as these (4mm kind):https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005245742379.htmlI bought a 100 of those and now I just keep replacing them as needed if they (accidentally) get melted or get dirty from a lot of flux.

author: s54mtb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 11:07:03 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on December 29, 2023, 08:52:02 pmOT: “noga” in my language means “leg”.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 11:34:25 am
content: That translation makes sense.The problem with flexible arms is springiness that makes fine adjustment difficult. Locking balls, like used for coolants in machining (attachment), are a little better, but not by much. I have a home-made holder made with three short sections of them mounted to a steel plate that is OK.The Noga and other versions are easily adjusted, have minimal spring, and have a fine, screw knob adjustment.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 04:31:57 pm
content: The Noga fine adjustment costs extra. The Chinese versions are ~$2, but not as nice.After buying a Noga I'll never use any other pattern of holder again. Knowing that after you tighten the knob the position is NOT going to change is priceless.Have Fun!Reg

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:29:18 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on December 29, 2023, 10:28:57 pmI don't think its worth the savings IMO, the smallrig arm you used can be had for ~$20 and is of slightly better quality. Hardened steel teeth at the rotating elbow area.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:50:20 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on January 03, 2024, 12:29:18 amSteel teeth? There are no teeth in a Noga style arm. Its a pair of cams at the knob pivot and rods that clamp the balls at the ends. Brilliant design.There are a huge number of things to do with these at <$10. Price is very variable. I plan to mount some in tapped holes on my lathe and mill so I don't have to rely on magnets.Small Kant-Twist and other options are easily implemented.Have Fun!Reg

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 01:54:42 am
content: Quote from: rhb on January 03, 2024, 12:50:20 amYes they use the same design otherwise. Odd they went with that then, seems unnecessary unless you are dealing with very heavy loads.Maybe I'll try to file one down and see how much it affects the load capacity.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 10:36:40 pm
content: I couldn't find my Noga, but it finally turned up. Construction is identical to the clones I bought, Just not as good a finish. The teeth must be for a rather large holder.Have Fun!Reg

author: thephil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 10:11:21 am
content: Yes – I use the same setup and love it! I found that a while ago in a YouTube video (maybe by the OP?):That guy also made a few follow-up videos improving on the original setup. One of the improvements was to add thrust bearings to make everything run smoother. Have done that too, and it was worth it.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 03:05:31 pm
content: The bearings look very attractive. My usual practice has been to position and tighten and loosen and tighten between movements.I have some UHDP tape I'm going to try. I just received a bunch of the 150 & 300 mm arms for other projects.I'm also going to research RC model bearings.Have Fun!Reg

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 08:01:55 pm
content: I just ordered 12 x 5 x 4.93 mm thrust bearings from Boca Bearings.https://www.bocabearings.com/products/f5-12-tp-10602If I counterbore the knob I'll have 1.25 mm sidewalls and the bearings enclosed.Have Fun!Reg

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 09:54:19 pm
content: Interesting. I have one of these magnetic stands. Never occurred to me to use it in this way. Have to get another one.Next step would be to get some clamps or clips that are better than the alligator clips.Maybe some clamps/clips like these?https://www.amazon.com/Welding-Auxiliary-Soldering-Repairing-Observation/dp/B081Z7N9JPAdam Savage swears by them:https://youtu.be/uTLwlrk7oF4?si=TNeP7S4xNgB5SyN3&t=143Edit. Found them herehttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006175557418.htmlNow they are a bit expensive, but maybe something like this could work also?https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005478270039.html

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 10:10:15 pm
content: These in 1" are the type of clamps you want among others. I plan to make a variety of clamps that I can quickly switch as needed.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09L47W9HS/Original make & model is Kant Twist KT-401

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 11:49:13 pm
content: Quote from: thephil on January 12, 2024, 10:11:21 amThe Smallrig and clones come with thrust bearings. What he did was add a normal ball bearing, probably fine for this as well. But you can get thrust bearings cheap on aliexpress if you are interested (<$1).https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805478898635.html

author: asis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 09:23:46 am
content: ..very simple....

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 02:17:03 pm
content: Please!!! Provide more details on the clamp. It look super nice, but I fear the price.Have Fun!Reg

author: asis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 09:47:08 pm
content: Hi,Sometimes you yourself are surprised at what vintage instruments you have in your own stocks and how they organically and simply fit into your current needs.These jewelry vices were produced in the USSR in the 60s - 70s of the last century and cost 2 rubles 50 kopecks.https://dzen.ru/a/X-9EadGpBkHKU3Xi?experiment=942752&is_autologin_vk=trueThe only thing I found on aliexpress:Hand Vise for Jewelryhttps://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005429885816.html?sku_id=12000033037594071&spm=a2g2w.productlist.search_results.18.16376de6wyZZ6wYou can search on EBAY, but it’s hard for me to judge how it all works.https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=Hand+Vise+&_sacat=0&_odkw=Hand+Vise+for+Jewelry&_osacat=0T--The world has collapsed......

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 10:08:35 pm
content: Thanks.Those are really nice, but quite expensive at over $100 from Ukraine on ebay US with shipping. I wouldn't buy one at that price, but I may well make one. The Kant Twist copies with a new suite of jaws should do fine.I plan to drill out the jaw pivots and make a set of interchangeable jaws, e.g. a PCB edge clamp an inch wide that will grip 1/16" of PCB edge and hold it, jaws to hold multiple strands of wire for tinning the ends, etc. All the stuff alligator clips are bad at. And some machined metal alligator clips instead of stamped ones.Have Fun!Reg

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 12:45:11 am
content: My way of holding wires for tinning is a little simpler:I keep several clothespins on my bench carved to any shapes I need. They don't damage insulation either. The one above is for soldering servo wires to pin headers.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 12:48:30 am
content: Very nice. Those have become surprisingly uncommon here. Everyone has a dryer. I shall keep my eyes out as wood is a lot easier to cut for a one off job.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 03:30:19 am
content: Walmart:https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Wood-Clothespins-Beige-100-Pack/19398789?athbdg=L1102&from=/searchDollar General and Home Depot are two more. WM has both a miniature and full size. I have less uses for the miniature ones. That little "die" is made from balsa wood.I use then in the kitchen for keeping bags like potato chips closed. Easier than twist ties. Also great for labeling personal items, like cloth napkins, in a family.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2024, 08:04:14 pm
content: A friend suggested 1" Kant-Twist clamps. A pair of these were $36 on Amazon. Much better than the crappy alligator clips.Just make sure you test the location *before* you drill the hole. I didn't on the first one and had to cut a bit of metal off the stand clamp to clear the upper jaw plate.Have Fun!Reg

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 07:13:40 am
content: Quote from: rhb on January 23, 2024, 08:04:14 pmThese look really nice. A pity only a few sellers on amazon.com ship to Europe and it quickly becomes expensive ($75+ for a pair). There seems to be a 3/8" version, goes by "K007R". You could even make these yourself, if you had the tools (schematics are available on the net and there are diy articles and videos).

author: thephil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 08:38:06 am
content: I have cheap "Crab Clamps" from Aliexpress. They were about $8 each, shipping included. They work pretty well.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 09:07:59 am
content: Quote from: thephil on January 25, 2024, 08:38:06 amI was looking at these similar ones that have an additional tilting piece, they should work as well.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 01:05:51 pm
content: FWIW Here are better photos of the clamp. It appears the only source is Amazon or ebay. I just trolled through pages and pages on aliExpress and temu.The only modification required is drilling a single hole. Bit slipped doing it by hand, but that won't matter.The other clamp certain looks as if it's as good, but not quite as easy to mount on the cheap Noga clones I bought.Have Fun!Reg

author: robertson.alan@gmail.com
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 10:20:39 pm
content: HI Which Clones have Thrust Bearings already built in.Any links to themCheersAlan

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 10:27:51 pm
content: I'm not aware of any. I'm planning to bore out the metal knobs on my lathe to fit them.Have Fun!Reg

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 10:57:48 pm
content: Quote from: robertson.alan@gmail.com on January 25, 2024, 10:20:39 pmAs mentioned above, any of the smallrig stuff:https://www.amazon.com/SmallRig-Adjustable-Friction-Articulating-Monitor/dp/B087T4T8D5/But you'll need a base or rail or something to screw it in to.

author: rcjoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 11:34:20 pm
content: Regarding the clamps, here's another way to attach them to the arm.These clamps already have a threaded stud, so I turned an adapter to that it can be held in the 3/8" indicator clamp in the arm.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 12:15:15 am
content: Very nice. I was lazy and took the easiest option, a single hole.Have Fun!Reg

author: korlatos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 04:38:13 pm
content: Probably the easiest way to mount Smallrig arms is to use a Panavise 308 weighted base.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2024, 04:48:42 pm
content: I got the parts and put it together and it works nicely. The ball bearings are an improvement.I documented it here:https://baldpenguin.blogspot.com/2024/03/helping-hand-that-works.html

author: thephil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2024, 07:40:28 pm
content: Nice write up!Towards the end, you show how to reclaim a bit of thread by cutting the bushing. Another way to accomplish that is to throw out the bushing that sits between the two limbs of the arm and replace it with a washer – that's what I did for lack of lathe...

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2024, 10:06:17 pm
content: Omnifixo (https://omnifixo.com/) is what I bought. It's not cheap but it is beautiful, compact, precise, zero backlash. I first read about it in a thread here.

author: bateau020
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 08:51:51 am
content: About JohanH's work: very nice indeed, and I like the attention to detail with the heat shrink tube to protect the thrust bearings.Quote from: thephil on March 06, 2024, 07:40:28 pmIf you do that, you risk hampering free movement, as the arms will touch. See picture below. You don't need a lathe, a vise and a hacksaw will do.As I couldn't find the pictured 1/4" adapter easily, and didn't really like the fixation being off center (well, the second arm is off center also, but I just wanted it be nicer looking), I decided to tap a thread (1/4"-20 UNC) in the fork, and with a 1/4-1/4 adapter (or a piece of threaded rod), fixate the claw on the second arm. It will also allow me to use the fork as originally intended for other tools. It won't support heavy loads, but it is solid enough once you tighten the fork.

author: OneGeekGuy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 06:46:12 am
content: Another here fighting with the 3rd hands...., It is also curious how expensive the 3D Holders they are, I understand that the Arms are High Quality, some of them Hydraulics but even so the price for them for dial indicators for example are not so expensive...I took some ideas and make my own version, it require some tools, but maybe give some ideas...Basically I did smaller bases to dont use the bulky magnetic bases they come with, also I changed the head for a part in which you can insert different tools, for example support for oscilloscope probe, or for Sensepeek heads could be used as well, since the tool is hold by a screw stud.I like the idea of the bearing, I might check how it works because it is true that they tend to loosen when you move the arm end on the directions of loosening the thread.I am still looking for good quality crocodile clamps...., not sure if they will be better than the ones from Aliexpress...For the price of these arms I thin these kind of solutions are totally worth it.Some pictures below