Recreating a P&P file from nothing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sudo_apt-get_install_yum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 01:51:51 pm
content: Hello everyone!I work part time for a company (been doing so for the past 3 years), while finishing of my university degree. They called me a few days ago and asked if I could do a simple layout job for them. So here I am...The PCB is already in production and has been for the past 8 years, there is an area on the PCB that s unpopulated and they want to populate it. The problem is that the design files are missing, and nobody knows where they are. They want me to redo the layout but it has to be compatible with the current SMT stencil. They said that they could settle with only the placement of the components.The only files I have access to is the schematic in PDF form, BOM and GERBER files. No P&P file nor design/layout files.There are ~100 components and 14 of them are the "new" components that previously have been unpopulated.I’m not sure what the easiest approach would be. I could redraw the schematic in an afternoon but I have no idea how to create an identical layout without the pick and place coordinates.Most of the components are large (0603) with the finest pitch package a 64-LQFP(10x10).The board is only 2-layers and shape/placement is very basic.I will be doing the design in EAGLE.I have tried the GERBER import ULP in EAGLE but the imported files are not dimensionally accurate and don’t resemble the GERBER files when opened in a GERBER or when looking at it in real life.Would appreciate any help with this.

author: Sudo_apt-get_install_yum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 02:52:29 pm
content: I sort of figured out a solution,Importing the "Cream layer" and manually moving the components to fit the pads. I guess that this is the best way.If anybody has a better solution please let me know!

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 03:02:58 pm
content: Well that does sound like a solution.However the title of your original post only asks about a p&p file so if that was all you needed... If your products are already in production you already have one of those - its what the p&p machine is using. Pretty much any p&p machine will let you manually add ("teach") new or updated locations. You do that on the machine using its fid camera, if its an in-house p&p that's pretty easy, find a free moment in its schedule and job done in a few minutes.If your p&p is done by a 3rd party you can just send a drawing with the values for the current no-fit locations and they could do the same. Or potentially their setup data already has the location data and all they need to do is put a part number against it.I would also expect most machines to have an export feature or failing that to use a format that makes extracting the p&p from its proprietary format fairly easy (most are quite well documented somewhere).

author: Sudo_apt-get_install_yum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 03:50:28 pm
content: The P&P is the most critical, the layout is still a must but is not time critical as long as we can produce the older board with populated pads(the one in production).The production is done by a 3rd party and im pretty sure that they could export a P&P file for us. However my employer does not want to request it from them (unknown reason) so they want me to recreate the entire PCB starting with the new updated P&P file.The P&P file needs to be ready for Monday to continue production, i was just curious if there was a better solution to speed up this process since im running out of time.This process of using the cream layer is working pretty well with is nice!

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 04:33:32 pm
content: I always get suspicious of people who claim they can't get at the original data for something and its also very annoying. More often than not it seems be for one of a few reasons.1)They can't be bothered2)They think the supplier might suspect them of trying to take the work away and put obstacles in their way3)They think or know the design/data belongs to the assembly house4)They don't actually know/understand what you are asking for5)They flat out lost the original data or whoever had/created it is out of businessIf we were the assembly house, I would add those 14 parts to the recipe for you without charge. I would also expect us or our suppliers to be able to give you any data YOU originally supplied for its manufacture without fuss or complaint.

author: Sudo_apt-get_install_yum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 05:30:28 pm
content: Its a combination of #1, #4, #5.The person that designed it years ago no longer works for the company, it was a messy. He went from a consultant to partial owner/CTO (~25%), he tried to pull of some shady deals by purchasing a IP from himself for an absurd amount of money and some questionable deals with subcontractors that he personally knew. (He developed a product on his free time with intent of replacing one of the best selling product from that product range without anybody knowing.)He was removed from his position about 5 months ago and deleted a lot of design files, on our in-house servers and offshore backup. Nobody questioned him because he was one of the owner and worked for the company 20+ years.

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 05:44:28 pm
content: Generate Part Centroid File (aka Pick-and-Place) from Gerber data:

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 06:12:12 pm
content: Oh yes Fab3000 is a good tool and I have used it for exactly this purpose (well completely from scratch), however trials and 1 month rentals do require a couple of working days to setup as there is a human (Miranda) in the process which doesn't help for Monday.There is also a free tool herehttp://www.gerbergrab.co.uk/it does the same job but is far less polished and easily upset to the point it can feel quite frustrating.