Pronunciation: S-Q-L or "Sequel" ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 08:47:06 am
content: Is it just me, but does it bother anyone else when people pronounce SQL (as in Structured Query Language) as "sequel"? It makes me cringe.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 08:56:55 am
content: "Sequel" is the way it was pronounced when it was developed at IBM - originally the 'acronym' was also SEQUEL - Structured English QUEry Language.Oracle still use "sequel" as the official pronunciation.Why does it make you cringe?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 09:00:52 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on May 31, 2015, 08:56:55 amPerhaps because a former supervisor of mine was an absolute douchebag and called it "sequel", maybe that ruined it for me? Sort of why "climate change" makes me cringe thanks to Kevin Rudd.I know some Oracle guys who call it S-Q-L and most Microsoft guys I know also use S-Q-L, likewise when talking about MySQL.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 09:09:39 am
content: I prefer SQL, but not really mind sequel.What does annoy me is when people say WWW as DUB DUB DUB.It conjures up an image of a mentally retarded person waving their arms yelling DUB DUB DUB.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 09:24:20 am
content: As a pedant of long standing, I feel the need to point out that the wording of your poll is both loaded and inaccurate - many acronyms are not pronounced by spelling out their constituent letters.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 09:26:08 am
content: S-Q-L or Sequel. Way back when, it was far more common to hear "sequel". These days, it seems more common to hear S-Q-L. I personally call it S-Q-L because everyone gets that, and too many people give me dumb looks when I say sequel. I'll always think of it as sequel, though.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 10:00:13 am
content: I vaguely recall Sequel was a specific 'branded' implementation (in the 70s or early 80s?).It will always be SQL for me.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 10:12:31 am
content: Sequel. Been doing that stuff solidly since the 80s. When doing IT consulting work, it has been my most key skill. It doesn't bother me though whether someone says S-Q-L or Sequel, life's too short for such pedantry!

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 10:27:43 am
content: Just as a bit of history, it was originally called SEQUEL by IBM. The name was later shortened to SQL when it was released...I forget exactly why now, but it was some sort of conflict with another product. I believe the SQL-86 spec may actually even suggest that it should be pronounced S-Q-L, though all of us ignored that for a long time and just kept calling it Sequel.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 10:48:09 am
content: I worked for IBM and I always knew it by S.Q.L.Other cringes..."Folders" instead of "directories". (Used by Windows kiddies.)Data pronounced "darta" rather than pronounced "dayta". (I am with our American friends on this one.)"Show me the metrics!" (Over used by ladder-climbing yuppies who moved out of engineering into management.)"That's a nice CB" when it is a Kenwood TS-440S. (Some contact counselling may be justified here.)In a practical sense...Electronics engineers who don't use protection on external inputs. (Education is the key here... Dave could do an educational video on this.)Electronics engineers who don't put in a ground test point on a PCB. (Les exécuter avec la guillotine!)Mechanical engineers who have no idea about serviceability and ease of maintenance. (Sentence them to one year of field maintenance.)

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 10:55:45 am
content: "Folder" is an old term that WAY predates Windows. Anyway, Folder and Directory aren't the same thing. If someone working in Windows tells you to go to his "My Documents" folder, you can do that, but you CAN'T go to the "My Documents" directory because there's no such thing.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 10:59:05 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 31, 2015, 10:27:43 amAhem. I did point that out in the second post to this thread.QuoteFromone of the co-developers:Quote from: Don Chamberlin

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 01:28:16 pm
content: Just to be awkward I tend to call the standard Sequel and specific implementations SQLs. I know I picked that habit up off of someone but can't remember if it was a tutor or one of the greybeards who took me under their wing lol

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 01:39:01 pm
content: S.Q.LSequel has always, and will always, sound retarded, I always associate it with marketing or, shudder, recruiters, who want to sound like they "know the jingo".

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 03:03:55 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on May 31, 2015, 01:39:01 pmI think you might have difficulty in being taken seriously in some places particularly Oracle and SQL Server shops. Like I said before, life is too short to get uptight about such things.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 03:24:38 pm
content: Consulting the book of knowledge:The original standard declared that the official pronunciation for "SQL" was an initialism: /??s kju? ??l/ ("es queue el"). Regardless, many English-speaking database professionals (including Donald Chamberlin himself) use the acronym-like pronunciation of /?si?kw?l/ ("sequel"), mirroring the language's pre-release development name of "SEQUEL".Sequel is easier to pronounce, S.Q.L sounds more formal. I use both forms, depending on the context.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 06:46:53 pm
content: Can't vote because I use both SQL and sequel.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 08:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on May 31, 2015, 10:00:13 amYes, that is exactly how I remember it. I use SQL every day and I pronounce it S-Q-LI have to make a conscious effort to NOT regard people who say "sequel" as wanna-be dilettantes and managers who don't know any better.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 08:33:12 pm
content: I used to work in a dept full of hardcore AIX DB2 guys, all pronounced it sequel.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 04:57:18 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on May 31, 2015, 09:24:20 amProblem fixed. Changed the word "all" to "most".

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 06:08:22 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 01, 2015, 04:57:18 amIt's only an acronym if it is pronounced as a word, otherwise it's an initialism.NASA is an acronym.FBI is an initialism.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 06:28:02 am
content: You need to add another option to the poll - 'Both'. Been doing it since the late 80s, last 15 years in Silicon Valley, you hear people use both. Probably 'sequel' a bit more often.And a bit of curious trivia - the San Carlos airport which is like a mile from Oracle headquarters has abreviation SQL (purely by accident Wikipedia says)...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:11:50 am
content: Quote from: Delta on June 01, 2015, 06:08:22 amWell spotted, also fixed ;-)Quote from: ivaylo on June 01, 2015, 06:28:02 amDone.

author: jadew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:29:04 am
content: S.Q.L."Sequel" sounds like hipster rubbish.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:47:48 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 01, 2015, 07:11:50 amI finally got to vote but since you changed it so late, the poll is not ever going to be accurate.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:24:02 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 01, 2015, 07:47:48 amEh, that's fine. It's just a bit of fun.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:33:07 am
content: I been working mostly as a contractor doing both SQL Server and Oracle for about 20 years. I've worked with a lot of different people in a lot of different places - mostly UK investment banks. It's pretty much unanimously "sequel". I've only worked in the UK by the way so whilst I think I've taken a reasonable sample here, it may be totally different in other countries.To be honest anyone who refers to it by the initials gives the distinct impression that you've read about it in a book on your own and have never worked with anyone else. (Not anywhere near as bad as the C# developer I interviewed who referred to it as "C hash"!)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:38:47 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 01, 2015, 08:33:07 amI have to disagree with that point. Most people who I've known in the past who are actual DBAs have referred to it by the initials. There was one guy who I recall used both depending on what mood he was in.To me those who say "sequel" seem to be trying too hard to fit in or are just a little bit douchey.On another note, I refer to SAP as S-A-P however so many people just call it "Sap", which I agree requires less effort.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:44:13 am
content: It must be different in Australia then. That surprises me though. Normally you guys like to shorten a word whenever possible and "sequel" is definitely shorter than "S Q L".

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 09:04:24 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 01, 2015, 08:33:07 amI think I'm going to adopt that from now on.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 09:27:15 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 01, 2015, 09:04:24 amI rather liked The Register'ssuggestionthat it be called D flat, since it is basically the same note.They also weighed in on the SQL pronunciation debate: "squeal".

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 09:45:47 am
content: I call it a 'hash' mark when I see it alone, and yet I read and pronounce C# as 'C-pound', and not 'C-hash'.I've never programmed in C#. I know Microsoft calls it C-sharp, but that's their fault. Unfortunately, we're stuck with it. I try to correct myself whenever I find myself reading or saying C-pound instead of C-sharp. I do like the 'D-flat' reference. I'll start calling it that when I want to piss people off.SQL to me is sequel.. that was what we always called in the 80's, and I rarely call it S Q L. Although I do say 'MySQL as my S Q L , and Microsoft SQL Server as sequel server.Hands up if you're old enough to still be calling '@' the 'planet' sign. (not the 'at' sign )(it was a planet in Decwars, on my uni's PDP-10 ). I've always called it 'planet' since then

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 09:55:52 am
content: But it's been an "at" sign for centuries. I don't remember ever calling it a "planet" on a PDP-11. What was the significance on a PDP-10, or is that just what they called it in a manual?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 10:05:34 am
content: @codeboy2k Yes, Microsoft calls it C-sharp. Obviously C-hash or even C-pound (I never got this Americanism) is fine unless you're claiming to be an experienced C-sharp developer. Maybe the guy just never spoke to any of the colleagues he claimed to have had in the jobs in his CV?@rolycat Never heard of D-flat but quite like it.Anyway, back to arguing about SQL...

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 10:24:12 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 01, 2015, 08:24:02 amAu contraire.Clearly this issue divides the engineering and IT world into the gentle, tolerant folk who either use 'sequel' or are happy with either pronunciation, and the bigoted, hate-filled reactionaries who regard those who use 'sequel' as:"makes me cringe""sound retarded""wanna-be dilettantes""hipster rubbish""douchey"It's deadly serious.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 10:47:48 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on June 01, 2015, 10:14:13 amOh, I get it...LOL. I never played any games on the PDP-11. By that time, we had PS/2s and IBM RS/6000s, so no one spent any time on the PDP-11 unless we absolutely had to. If I remember right, most of my time was spent hacking into the network on the PS/2s so we could reconfigure it and play our multiplayer games. I think the big ones at the time were Doom, and some sort of tank game.It was amazing. We'd find a way into the network, and they'd notice in about a week and make some changes, but they ALWAYS left some wide open holes for use to exploit. The final one lasted until I graduated...about a good solid year or so. They'd made more changes, and it was getting harder and harder to find a way in, but now that everything was so secure, they had to log in to various parts of the network in order to download stuff when the workstation booted. And how did they do this? Why, with batch files of course! Ha ha... I couldn't get access to the batch files easily, but I could break out of the batch file after the login, but before it logged out. I almost wanted to hug the IT guys for gifting me access to the WHOLE DAMN NETWORK. After all that work locking things down, they actually made it easier to get in, and on top of it all, gave us more access than we'd ever had any other way.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 02:22:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 01, 2015, 10:05:34 amThey may have put meaning into it. Sharp symbol is used in music.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_(music)

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 02:28:18 pm
content: QuoteI do not buy any of it. Worked with one man show professional programmer contractors, they were saying SQL and Sequel. Worked for companies with a hundred people, they were saying SQL and Sequel. Worked for a company with 40,000 employees, they were saying SQL and Sequel.IBM mainframe, Microsoft and Linux platforms.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 02:32:20 pm
content: It seems to come down to local practice and the age of the person. People who are old enough to remember when "Sequel" was a specific commercial implementation of SQL avoid using "Sequel" unless specifically referring to that particular implementation.

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 03:21:40 pm
content: I guess it depends a lot on your personality, personally I hate shortening words or turning acronyms into words.I therefore use L E D not lead and S Q L not Sequel, and yes it does sound a bit strange and if i'm absolutely honest a bit annoying. However I don't let it get to me if other people are different to me, as long as they don't try and correct me I won't try and correct them.On the other hand I do have one pet hate, and that is Solder has an L in it, sodder sounds like a Londoner talking about a woman who he is unhappy with.

author: Melt-O-Tronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 06:53:43 pm
content: As someone who has made a living with SQL for the last 20+ years; I, my colleagues and everyone at every conference I've ever attended pronounces it "sequel", just as it was since its inception.Pronouncing it "s q l" doesn't bother me in the least, but IMO, it's incorrect.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 06:57:48 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 01, 2015, 08:33:07 amI am currently doing a short contract in the City for a few months after a break of a couple of years to concentrate on electronics. I started today, consulting as a SQL Server DBA. I've already worked at this place a few times before, and they often ask me back to help out, which I'm happy to do for short contracts to let me continue with the electronics, it means I have two careers essentially. I did about 25 years in finance technology in the City with SQL Server being my primary product skill since 1991.I asked the guys there today what they thought, the resounding answer was Sequel. However, this is admittedly biased, because a number of them started on their careers as DBAs under my wing!

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:00:02 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 01, 2015, 08:44:13 amI'm not sure it is, I had an Aussie working for me for a few years in the 90s and early noughties and he pronounced it Sequel.He used to get a ribbing for calling it a daaartabase though.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:13:01 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on June 01, 2015, 07:00:02 pmAussie contractions can be infectious. I worked pretty closely with an Australian colleague a few years ago and he always referred to project documentation as 'doco'. Can't seem to shake that one. Ah, well; no worries...

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on June 01, 2015, 07:13:01 pmAnother Australian import that has taken hold over here

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: Tandy on June 01, 2015, 07:16:32 pmWait until you guys start saying "No wukkers" or "No wucking furries" ;-)If it makes you feel any better, I've found myself dropping "bollocks" more frequently.Quote from: Tandy on June 01, 2015, 03:21:40 pmI absolutely agree with you 100% on this one. Our spoken English is already lazy enough without adding to it I say. As much as "sequel" annoys me, it's nothing compared to those who use the word "like" every 4th word!

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:04:39 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 01, 2015, 07:28:52 pmUs Brits seem to have turned that word into a pretty universal word.When something is good we say "That is the dogs bollocks", when we don't believe something "That's bollocks", when we are annoyed, just plain "bollocks", when someone messes up they "bolloxed that up" or "drop a bollock", breaks something "it's bolloxed" telling some one off, give them a "bollocking". When it is cold you "freeze your bollocks off", and if you have been working hard you have "Worked your bollocks off".There are probably more but those are the one I can think of right now.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:11:01 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 01, 2015, 07:28:52 pmI think that's an import from Indian English speakers. Putting "like" on the end of every sentence definitely is.

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on June 01, 2015, 08:11:01 pmI thought it was American with conversations like this..."Brad was like, whatever!, and I was like, frikin' totally mad with him for like the whole damn day, like why should I let him talk to me like that!".

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 09:28:59 pm
content: Quote from: Tandy on June 01, 2015, 08:16:24 pmAh right. I was thinking short sentences like. Lots of them like....

author: 0b01010011
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 02:36:40 am
content: I love to see LEDs (pronounced ledds) flashing on my SQL (pronounced sequel) server.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 07:24:27 am
content: Quote from: 0b01010011 on June 02, 2015, 02:36:40 amThere's always one pelican ;-) (Translated into UK English: "Plonker")By the way, if anyone is interested in learning more about AU English, these might be a good start:Episode 1: G'day Knackers -https://www.youtube.com/embed/DHQRZXM-4xIEpisode 2: Grub -https://www.youtube.com/embed/NE-al0xSFJoEpisode 3: Rhyming Slang -https://www.youtube.com/embed/RUhBRlXC8LYEpisode 4: Famous Australians -https://www.youtube.com/embed/yY73f1bRO6QEpisode 5: Nicknames -https://www.youtube.com/embed/Rm6zIfcS7xIEpisode 6: The Slackarse Country -https://www.youtube.com/embed/QoRp_YFu2pYEpisode 7: Dunny Budgies & Budgie Smugglers -https://www.youtube.com/embed/S8ojyW_jDL8Episode 8: Citizenship Test -https://www.youtube.com/embed/VNaVWgC1u_w

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 09:27:03 am
content: I guess this store would be very confused if referred to as S-Q-L

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 09:59:19 am
content: Quote from: matseng on June 02, 2015, 09:27:03 amI wonder if they have a loyalty program known as 'MySequel' ? ;-)