Interested in return policy experiences of major digital oscilloscope companies - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rfdes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 11:09:04 am
content: I'm on the verge of selecting a new digital oscilloscope but am concerned that should I be unhappy, will I be able to return the unit for a refund. So, I'm curious what experiences others have incurred from the major players?KeysightTektronixSiglentGWInstekRigolAlso, how about warranties? Anyone have issues with warranties not being honored as one would expect?thanksJimrfdes

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 11:22:14 am
content: Well, Siglent didn't want to take back an oscilloscope (around 2000 euro!) which was too buggy to use and didn't meet it's specifications (missing features which where in the datasheet).Addition: when not sure I strongly recommend to get an instrument on loan or get in writing (e-mail) you can return it for any reason within a certain period and/or based on certain conditions (suitability).

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 02:57:59 pm
content: If you want good service go for a brand name unit.Keysight, Tek and R&S distributors usually let you borrow a demo unit for a couple of weeks if you are looking to buy some gear.Don't know if they will do it for private or low end stuff.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 03:39:51 pm
content: Hi rfdes - I know you didn't mention us (R&S), but as eeviking mentions you can certainly get a loaner/demo from one of our partners in the US to try out and all of our partners have good return policies. Should an extenuating circumstance come up, they can always come to us (R&S North America) and we can approve a return. I'm 99% sure Tek and Keysight are similar. We all want you to be happy with what you purchase.-Rich

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 03:43:05 pm
content: A while ago a user here (blueskull) was able to return a Rigol oscilloscope when an announced feature was unavailable on his oscilloscope. I suspect it was a quick and smooth transaction.When I bought my Rigol directly from them, the sales person walked through all terms and conditions for return and repairs. I didn't need to use it but their openness gave me confidence on their process.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 05:00:16 pm
content: Don't most distributors cover this kind of thing? There's probably a time limit to it and there could be some sort of fee if you return a fully working unit, but I wouldn't expect to be returning to the manufacturer unless you buy directly from them. In most cases, you'd be dealing with the distributor for a return and then the manufacturer for repair or whatnot in the future.

author: k4rlhp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 06:26:16 pm
content: I cannot comment on the return policies but I'm perhaps a tad too familiar with the Keysight warranty service.Specifically, I have a Keysight DSOX3000T series scope.I have used the warranty service 2 times within a year and tomorrow I'm dispatching it again for a third time. The service in terms of logistics and support from the Keysight crew has been very good. I'm in EU and from dispatch to receiving it back has taken 'bout a week and a few days which I think is exemplary given that the service center is nearly 1000miles away. So far, I haven't had to pay for the logistics either. All the questions about practicalities have been answered within a few hours or a day at most. So I can say that Keysight stands by their product andfor that.The only nagging point is that somehow I manage to receive a broken scope from warranty, now for the second time. The initial issue and the second issue were intermittent, so I can imagine how these could be missed prior to shipping. But the last issue when the scope literally gives P-Clock failure out of the box and doesn't even display a trace... go figure?!? After dispatching it again tomorrow, I will defenetly go buy a lottery ticket and see if that luck-trace is perhaps an inverted pair of a balanced systemOh, and the next time I'm buying something that expensive from any brand company, I will buy the extended warranty period for sure. I cannot imagine paying for the logistics and repairs for myself. That would be a financial ELE.Hope this helps.I'd like to hear if someone has experience with Tek. I'm thinking about RSA306B or RSA607 and would expect the same level of service if I'm shelling out that cash.Thanks!Karl

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 08:06:10 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 03, 2017, 11:22:14 amIs this the manufacturer's or theresellersresponsibility ?Soon after you bought it (3 years ago) Siglent engaged directly with you here on the forum with efforts to get it sorted which in reality took them far too long but even just a few months back there was further FW released to correct the few remaining issues and add power analysis as an option.There's other stuff that happened behind the scenes that's not been fully shared with the forum about Nico's experience but despite that he's found it hard to move on.QuoteOr ask for a demo unit.....that's why we have them.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 08:13:55 pm
content: I have not seen any manufacturer / distributor that accepts return on test equipment. Purchase it on amazon.com (items shipped by amazon) as they offer the best return policy available and vendors selling through amazon must honor amazon's policies. If the item is sold and shipped by a vendor, then it might not honor amazon return policy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2017, 08:17:50 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 03, 2017, 08:06:10 pmThat is an odd way of twisting the truth! I have shared everything on the forum including e-mails with the seller and Siglent so everyone can judge for themselves. Bottom line: I trusted Siglent to fix the problems but they couldn't. Siglent couldn't even give me a ballpark date when they would be able to come up with usefull firmware. In the end that took more than 2 years and there are still several features implemented in a half assed way. You can't expect a customer to wait for more than 2 years to be able to use an oscilloscope. How am I supposed to make measurements to put food on the table in the meantime?I'm still 1700 euros in the hole BTW so yes, I'm very pissed off because I could have put that money to good use.You can try to sugar coat it all the way you want but there is no denying Siglent failed big time here. They should have overruled the seller and take the unit back for refund instead of adopting a hit&run strategy.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 12:37:50 am
content: Quote from: TK on October 03, 2017, 08:13:55 pmGenerally returns are only possible for a failure to meet specifications or advertised functionality, but they can occur for other reasons. Instead the T&M market has a very strong demo/evaluation system where you are given opportunity to be sure that a product will meet you needs before buying it.Open ended return policies (and even the demos/evaluations) are rife for abuse with test equipment as has been documented on various threads on this forum, an unscrupulous user gets the unit and performs the measurements they need before returning it, renting the unit without paying for that. Needless to say the companies involved are attuned to this so you can't expect good relations in the future if you try this.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 01:33:39 am
content: I had excellent experience with Keysight service. First time was when I purchased a 16801 logic analyzer without the hard disk, and by contacting keysight, a field engineer uploaded the software that allowed me to recover the unit. The last experience was this week. My MSOX3024X failed to boot and it was repaired and recalibrated for free even when it was out of warranty. Keysight has a special service repair for 2000X-3000X series scopes that fails to boot due to NAND flash problems for units manufactured before 2016. As was explained by Daniel, it is not a hardware problem. Keysight added a recovery mode in the firmware starting 2016 so bricked scopes due to NAND problems can be recovered using a USB stick. This shows the company has pride and stands behind its products.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 03:10:02 am
content: Quote from: k4rlhp on October 03, 2017, 06:26:16 pmYes, you can certainly expect the same high level of customer service and satisfaction from Tek, speaking as a Tek FAE. If you can swing the extra $ and don’t need the portability of the 306B, I’d recommend the 607A. Better spurious performance, SFDR, wider frequency range, available tracking generator with VSWR / Return Loss and Distance to Fault measurements. The RSA507A is the same RF hardware, but in a ruggedized package and battery operation.

author: sasa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 04:15:57 am
content: Quote from: TK on October 04, 2017, 01:33:39 amThat worth more than anything...I have consider to buy one and recently watched this video I could not believe after all lifetime bad experience with consumers electronic:Thank you for confirming this.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 02:22:01 pm
content: I had exceptional sales experience with Rigol. When I wanted to buy MSO2202A and it turned out that they didn't have it in stock, they loaned me 5 times more expensive MSO5054 unit for free (they even paid for two-way shipping!) until the unit I wanted was restocked (it took about 2 months).They also offer 30 days return policy (sans shipping fees as usual) - at least here in Canada.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 02:48:53 pm
content: Quote from: sasa on October 04, 2017, 04:15:57 amI don't think you want to know the price and Keysight doesn't have parts for every old piece of equipment. A repair of old equipment can become expensive quickly. Fortunately new gear often has a backward compatibility mode for remote operation (the Keysight 3446x DMM series for example).

author: Porcine Porcupine
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 04:35:32 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 04, 2017, 02:48:53 pmI was thinking the same thing about price. I bet it's at least $500 just for them to take it out of the box.Has anyone actually sent something back to them? If so, how much did it cost?

author: sasa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 07:45:20 am
content: Quote from: Porcine Porcupine on October 06, 2017, 04:35:32 amThey have several models, per incident, annual service agreement, etc. - all if out of warranty.Open this and enter your device model, all fees for all models would be shown:https://service.keysight.com/infoline/public/product-service-query.aspx

author: Porcine Porcupine
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 08:56:55 am
content: Quote from: sasa on October 06, 2017, 07:45:20 amWow, I'm impressed that they actually publish prices. It's only $336 to calibrate a 100-MHz 54600B analog oscilloscope. I guess that's not a bad deal to know that your very own scope has been adjusted and certified accurate by a nude gray-bearded virgin at Keysight.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 06:46:05 pm
content: A couple of years ago I purchased a brand new DS4000 series scope direct from Rigol. A few months later it locked up on the boot screen. (I think I know what caused it but was unwilling to test it again!) I called their tech support group and a very nice guy based right here in the USA talked me through the magic sequence to access the bootloader, after which the scope booted fine.THEN... he said "You know, if it did it once it might do it again. How about we send you a replacement unit, just in case?" So they did, and I returned the old one at their expense, and everything has been perfect since.The most amazing part was that they wanted to be PROactive about making sure I didn't have any more problems. I was very impressed by that. They could easily have argued that my scope wasn't broken at all, but instead wanted to go the extra mile to make sure.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 08:58:33 pm
content: I love it when the customer is blamed for product issues, nctnico did Siglent a favor finding bugs. Waiting months or years for bug fixes to be rolled out? It's the customers prerogative if they want to hold out that long not the manufacturers or the resellers.If the issues were bad enough for me to have no confidence in the product I'd be throwing it back. This is what consumer laws are for, to stop manufacturers and resellers wiping their hands clean after taking the money.This situation could have easily been turned into a positive one as well. I don't know what is worse, a company taking forever to fix it's problems or just ignoring them, might as well be the same thing.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 11:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on October 07, 2017, 08:58:33 pmWho's blaming who ?QuoteNico's SDS2204 troubles have been the subject of many internal emails and PM's to get the fixes he asked for, he's very aware that Siglent at the time tried their best but it wasn't good enough or fast enough for his needs.You can be quite sure Siglent learnt from those days as marketplace unreadiness is even more visible now and there's nowhere to hide if you release unfinished products. Everyone has had to lift their game.QuoteThat's the thing, every buyer has a different tolerance to faults and when they are bad and not promptly fixed it's always going to end badly for the company.QuoteIt has, lots has been learnt.QuoteNot hard to find examples of other TE companies never fixing long standing issues on the forum.Plusescomes to mind.Shock, you can be sure the product in question is a very sound unit today despite what others might try and have you believe.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 11:54:39 am
content: Tautech please do not quote me verbatim I did not give permission to be included in a marketing campaign.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 02:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 07, 2017, 11:14:19 pmIn general I find it interesting to observe how some companies have such a large disconnect with their customers and reality.They have worked hard on a product so it must be good.Even when the customer shows evidence based on verifiablefactsthat the product isn't good this believe cannot be changed.QuoteWhich future are you from? Every product Siglent has released so far is riddled with bugs which could have been found with a minium amount of structured testing.