Why does new laptop take up far more energy than the old one? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 08:43:17 am
content: I am still not clear and how volts and amps and such result in how much energy is used.I know the general ohm's law calculation but tbh don't really know how to use it in this context if that is even relevant here.In both cases I have not used an inverter and instead snipped the home wall charger cable and connected positive and negative directly to my blade fuse block which is connected to the van's leisure battery.Old laptop was more of a tablet so was less in terms of hardware specifications and power consumption. That one would charge in the 7-12v range and the amps were about 2a. In this case it would not charge at all when I first tried and later figured out, with some advice from others online, that it might be overcharge protection and indeed it was as the normal voltage of the leisure battery is somewhere above 13v. When I got an adjustable regulator and set it at around 12v it then charged.For the new one it has a charge voltage of 19v. As such I did the opposite and got a voltage booster to charge at around the 19v it wants. I am not sure of the current but I think it is about 2a as well. It certainly isn't much more because I am using the same 5a fuse and it hasn't blown. I don't recall but I think when reading the wall charger information that it was about 2a as well hence why I have not changed the fuse.So will the new laptop being at a charge rate of 19v mean it draws considerably more power?Or is the increase of voltage just a coincidence and correlation not cuasation and it is nothing to do with that but instead that the laptop just has more hungry components? If that is the case then wouldn't the amp requirements be more too satisfy them?It is certainly draining the battery faster now and while I made a post before using this laptop about having a large solar surplus I now have barely any surplus and if the day is cloudy then I am in a deficit and it looks like I might be having to break the dc-dc charger out in mid summer on these cloudier days!Oh it might help to give the leisure battery capacity. It is 105ah and I notice on sunny days when the solar can charge a surplus it can fill the battery up to about 60-70% or so over the day.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 09:20:09 am
content: Two laptops can be wildey different in terms of power.Some have power hungry graphics cards, lots of CPU cores, others don't. There's many factors.But in general newer laptops should use less power due to having much more efficient processors built on faster technology.The current at 19V should be much less than an old 12V laptop due to ohms law and due to being more efficient.Avoid thinking about current draw of devices based on the amps written on the device powersupply, or the fuse amps.You really have to use a multimeter to know for sure what the current is.Fuses are horrible inaccurate and don't tell you how much the device draws.And power supplies for products are often selected for many reasons. Sometimes the powersupply could say 2A but the product only needs 1A for example.There's many reasons that can happen, for example maybe other laptop models need 1.8A and the manufacturer wants to use the same powersupply for everything just for convenience. But that's fine, the product will only use as much amps as it needs and nothing is wasted.

author: BennoG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 09:39:00 am
content: Also if you connect the power to the laptop, when the accu is not full it will charge the battery from the power supply also.The charging current is most times almost 2 times the normal running current (on the laptop's I have)So if the laptop with full battery uses 0.5A and the battery is not empty it will draw at least 1.5A (at least 1A charging and the 0.5A for operation)Benno

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 09:40:20 am
content: Downloadhwinfo(it's free, start it up in sensors only mode, scroll down until you see the relevant sensors).If you unplug the laptop you should be able to get a reading on the battery draw, and while it is plugged in and charging you can see how much power it's taking to charge (add the idle draw as well). Depending on what sensors are exposed you can often see the DC in voltage and current as well.It's likely your newer laptop has a max processor power draw of up to 25W-60W or more if it has discrete graphics. Even though it might idle at the 5-10W range it can still pull a lot of power if it's doing any heavy lifting in the background.If your old laptop was a tablet it wouldn't surprise me if it would idle at <3W easy.

author: PGPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 11:03:33 am
content: For supplying laptop in car I have bought (for about $4) small, cigarette lighter socket-mounted 19V laptop power supply (ignoring laptop side plug it had) and separately a cable with right plug (about $1.5). Then I cut supply cable and soldered there the cable with right plug.Really I have bought 3 such supplies (from someone having 1000 of them so small price) and one modified to supply HP laptop, second to supply Dell laptop and third is waiting for future needs.Laptop designer have to select the supply voltage. Assuming constant power of his laptop the rules are: the higher voltage the lower current so thinner wires can be used.Next he have to think about battery laptop has. Will he have to step-up supply voltage to charge it or to step down.Practically I sow 18.5V to 19.5V voltages being used.Tablet could have lower voltage battery and needing less power so selecting lower supply voltage was probably rationale.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 12:26:15 pm
content: Without knowing what your old and new laptops are it's impossible to say!!In general a newer one will use less electricity for the same processing power, but maybe you've bought a much more powerful machine now.Even if the Watts are higher, the new one should be enough faster that fewer Wh are used for the same calculation because it will finish much more quickly.My first laptop, a PowerBook 100 with 16 MHz M68000 CPU, had a 7V 2.5Ah (17.5Wh) lead/acid battery. It was spec'd as using 17W maximum, but actually I could get about 4 hours of editing and running small programs in e.g. THINK Pascal or MPW with the backlight set low (or maybe off, I forget).My current laptop, a Lenovo Legion Pro with i9-13900HX CPU has a 15.36V 5.2Ah 80Wh battery. The power brick is rated at 300W, but 99% of the time the laptop is using 13W (lid closed, ssh'ing from my Mac) and only occasionally about 225W for a few seconds. It also runs for around four hours away from the AC with normal light usage.The PB100 ran at around 2 MIPS. The Lenovo runs about 10,000 MIPS on a single CPU core, maybe 150,000 MIPS with all 24 cores busy.So the new laptop uses on average about 4x more electricity, but can do around 1000 times more using the same amount of electricity.That's 32 years of progress.(incidentally, the computation per Watt works out almost exactly the same for a Raspberry Pi 4 or similar modern cheap SBC as for the i9)

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 01:26:54 pm
content: There's also USB power delivery ports to consider.It used to be that USB ports were limited to 500mA at 5V (so 2.5W / port).Now we have USB 'Power Delivery' specs, so a port might have to support 100 Watts in some cases.Pretty sure full 100W PD output ports on laptops are vanishing rare, if they even exists, but 5V 3A is common.The power delivery standard means USB ports can supply much more power than they used to on old laptops.Therefor a more powerful powersupply is needed to support the unlikely situation where you have the laptop loaded up with power hungry things on every port while it's running the GPU at full power and also charging.A modern laptop might have a bigger PSU purely to support lots of optional devices you may connect.

author: radiogeek381
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 02:18:29 pm
content: QuoteHmmm... Do I understand you correctly?That you took the charger that came from the factory, cut the part that went from the charger to the plug that goes into the laptop, and then connected the ends to a battery or power supply in the vehicle?If that works in general, it would surprise me.1. Supply voltages vary between laptop models and manufacturers. What suits one may not suit another. Yes, it may work "some of the time" but so do lots of things.2. Some laptop models have some kind of feedback or exchange with the power supply for various reasons.So, if I'm understanding you correctly, this isn't about energy efficiency or anything like that.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 02:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 08:43:17 amThe change to 19 volts was more about design convenience. It does allow more power for a given current, but the voltage is high enough to simplify the battery charging circuitry and improve efficiency.QuoteLaptops draw more power now because the increase in energy density of the battery allows it for a given runtime. Nobody makes a laptop which operates for as long as I would like, but performance is king.Quote from: Psi on July 06, 2025, 01:26:54 pmMy 4 year old laptop has a pair of 65 watt USB-C PD ports for charging and every laptop I have considered since has USB-C PD charging. I have a USB-C monitor for my laptop which acts as a combination display, charger, and port expander through only the USB-C PD port. Even my several years old phone has USB-C PD charging. So I believe laptops without USB-C PD will become rarer over time; it is just too much of a good thing.

author: PGPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 02:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 06, 2025, 02:26:37 pmI have been reading recently someone that he found a laptop no older than a year lying next to a trash bin. The only problem with laptop was that its USB-C socket destined to power it was not functioning. He connected external supply somewhere inside and is happy having powerful, modern laptop.I think that using a socked with 0.4mm raster (I'm not sure of 0.4mm but probably it is - you have there up to 24 contacts) to supply up to 100W is the solution forced by manufacturers lobby having an interest in the not very long life of products.Using USB-C socket for powering everything is forced in Europe Union. The theory says that thanks to this unification people will be needing less number of supplies so fewer of them will have to be recycled. Probably it is true. There will be fewer of supplies but more of laptops recycled, I think.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 03:07:07 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 08:43:17 amNo, a higher voltage (e.g. 19 V vs 5 V) does not automatically mean higher power consumption. Power depends on how much power the laptop actually needs - it's voltage x current. You can have higher power at 5 V than at 19 V, depending on the current drawn. However, using a higher voltage allows for lower current for the same power, which reduces heat losses in wires due to lower resistive heating. So, higher voltage is preferred for power economy.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 04:50:58 pm
content: Quote from: PGPG on July 06, 2025, 02:59:26 pmIt's pretty stupid, especially forcing Apple to change from their superior Lightning connector.Why is Lightning superior?1) it's smaller, so easier to fit into a thin device2) Lightning is designed so that the plug on the cable wears out, the socket in the device doesn't. After a few years, boo hoo, you might have to buy a replacement $19 cable (or a $2 one on AliExpress).With USB-C it's the male tongue thing inside the socket in the device that wears out. And then you have to replace your device.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 08:43:17 amSome well mentioned advice :Please go through your (non) understanding of this so important basic principle of Ohm’s law.It would give you straight away the answers you’re looking for.Please.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:20:26 pm
content: Quote from: BennoG on July 06, 2025, 09:39:00 amDo you mean it is using much more power than if you fully charge it and then remove the plug? I leave it plugged in all the time, which I did for both devices. I just plug in when I open the machine and leave it for the whole session I am using it then take it out when I switch off.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:21:27 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 06, 2025, 04:50:58 pmWhat an absolute rubbish. In lighting connector springy contacts that wear out the most are on the socket side. And exposed plug side contacts collect dirt and bring it into the socket. USB-C has springy contacts on the cable side and no moving parts on the socket side. What fails in lightning cables the most is an incredibly shitty PVC-free ecological whitewash insulation they use, and cause several times more waste due to short lifespan. I doubt you could easily find one with a worn out connector, because cables mostly failed within a year due to split insulation. Good USB-C cables and sockets can easily last more than a decade of frequent use without too much trouble.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:23:20 pm
content: Quote from: PGPG on July 06, 2025, 02:59:26 pmI am happy that my laptop came with two USB-C PD charge ports, so if one fails, the other can be used.As fragile as the USB-C connector is, I do not think it is any more fragile than the alternatives, and it is better than many, except maybe Apple's deprecated magnetic connector. The electronic design is clever where the charger detects whether the cable is being pulled or inserted and disables high power to prevent arcing which would destroy the contacts.QuoteI already have to keep track of fewer chargers. My laptop, flashlight, and phone use USB-C, while most of my other devices now rely on a USB-A charger of some type, although they could use a USB-C charger with a different cable.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:23:30 pm
content: Quote from: deadlylover on July 06, 2025, 09:40:20 amI don't use windows.I have already installed similar programs for linux but didn't list the results here as I forgot them and it takes a bit for the data to return hence why I didn't put it in the OP. I think I recall last time that it was pretty much exactly 19w for the little while I ran to get the readings and I tried on two different programs and they were within 5w of each other. That was only under normal browsing but that is the majority of my usage anyway.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:29:24 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 06, 2025, 12:26:15 pmFirst one is Jumpertech Ezpad 6 circa around 2020.Second one is older HP Pavilion G6.The first only had 60gb hard drive and this new/older one has 750gb or something. I know that is paltry in today's computing but for me it is a great improvement! I like to use minimal distros and bring old machines back to life. Both were gifted to me.I can say the screen alone is much larger on the current one. Don't know exactly the size but the first was only like 10" or so and this one seems huge, like 2x the size so I suppose lighting the screen will take a lot more power let alone the other hardware and probably less efficiency being around 7 years older.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:31:38 pm
content: Quote from: radiogeek381 on July 06, 2025, 02:18:29 pmNo you did not read the details properly because I mentioned in both cases I have used voltage regulation in between the laptop and the fuse block. I did right 'directly' at first but then give details later in the post.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 06, 2025, 02:26:37 pmOne thing I noticed when I accidentally touched myself with positive and negative is I got a little sting with this higher current. Is that possible or placebo?Happened more than once and was not aware I was touching them so don't think placebo as I would not have been expecting it.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:35:07 pm
content: It would be difficult to measure the power consumption of a laptop because it draws the power off the battery. If you measure the power coming in to the charging connector that is not the power that it's consuming.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:36:29 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on July 06, 2025, 03:07:07 pmI am familiar with this idea from solar setups and sizing wires.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 06, 2025, 05:21:27 pmWhat I like most of usb-c the little I have used it is they now can be plugged in either way up. What idiot thought of the original usb I don't know where you have to fumble one way up then then other only to realize it was the first way you tried but didn't quite have the angle right, and so on and so forth.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:41:35 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on July 06, 2025, 05:35:07 pmYes the programs I have tried make you take the cable out before they can start giving readings from battery consumption but as mentioned above I don't have the readings handy to relay here at the moment. Will have to run again but I did give what I seem to recall from memory the last time I ran it a couple of weeks ago.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:45:45 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 05:34:26 pmYou can’t get a sting from 19V.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:53:31 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on July 06, 2025, 05:45:45 pmPerhaps evil spirits?

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:54:38 pm
content: Ok I am just running the powertop program again with the power lead out and it is reading around 20w discharge rate.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 05:58:00 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 05:53:31 pmYou can only get stung if you don’t know ohm’s law

author: PGPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 09:46:46 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 05:34:26 pmCurrent has nothing to it.Do you know that device can take 2A or more but 50mA can kill you?

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:24:51 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 06, 2025, 04:50:58 pmThis is not my experience at all, with daily charging on my phone for the last few years it's always the USB connector on the cable that wears and becomes sloppy, a new cable brings back the solid click when plugged into the phone.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:35:12 am
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 06, 2025, 08:43:17 amA 2A supply seems quite low for a modern laptop, IME the lower power ones tend to have a 65W charger or thereabouts. What make and model is the laptop?If it really is a 2A supply, that is a power of 19V x 2A = 38 Watts. The maximum power draw from the battery will be higher due to losses in the step up converter. If we assume 90% conversion efficiency* this means it could be drawing up to 38W/12V* 100/90 ~ 3.5A from your 12V battery. If it's a 65W charger obviously this will be higher.* A good design can be a bit higher than this, the cheap Chinese boost modules are often lower.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:30:53 am
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 07, 2025, 10:35:12 amI answered that only a couple of posts up.QuoteI was thinking that this will be another really useful case for an ammeter won't it, besides the bigger battery type loads I initially planned on getting it for? I can then see in realtime what is going on for all my different devices with a quick clamp right?

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:46:18 am
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 07, 2025, 11:30:53 amHow are you going to interpret those measurements if you don’t know Ohm’s law??

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 07:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 07, 2025, 11:30:53 amI had a look and I can't find it, only your post about a 20W discharge whilst running. This isn't a very useful measurement as power consumption will be significantly higher when the battery is being charged and the laptop is running.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 08:54:38 pm
content: BTW, small issue here: power has nothing to do with Ohm's Law.Ohm's Law gives the relationship between resistance, voltage and current:E = IR(and other combinations thereof)Poweris simply voltage multiplied by current:P = V * A

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 01:12:00 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 06, 2025, 02:26:37 pmYeah, most laptops have PD for charging at high power.It was only high-voltage+power PD 'output' ports that I don't think are very common on laptops.You would need a bi-directional DCDC H bridge to act as a step-up/step-down in both directions.Seems like a lot of work just to support high voltage PD output that almost no one would use on a laptop. And the laptop wouldn't last long pulling 100W out of a laptop battery through a 95% switchmode.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 01:40:42 am
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 07, 2025, 10:35:12 amIt's a shitty tablet with a detachable keyboard. Calling it a laptop is giving it way too much glory. My previous midrange smartphone from 2017 had more powerful HW than that junk.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 03:13:52 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 08, 2025, 01:12:00 amMy laptop's two USB-C PD ports also provide 5 volts and 3 amps of output power, so 15 watts PD output.

author: JustMeHere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 03:54:38 am
content: 19v has become a standard for laptops. I got 3 on the table in front of me. They all use 19. The one on my right can run for most of a day on battery.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 04:36:10 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 08, 2025, 03:13:52 am5V output is easy, it's the voltages above the internal battery voltage that adds complexity.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 04:40:47 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on July 07, 2025, 08:54:38 pmThey are related as you may have to substitute components.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:17:27 am
content: Quote from: Simmed on July 08, 2025, 04:59:01 amIt would be difficult. Let say I cut the charger cable and insert the amp meter in series as well as hooking up a volt meter in parallel I have to voltage and current coming into the laptop. But that is not the power consumption of the laptop. When the battery low and the laptop is on the power going in is both for charging and running the laptop. Also the laptop draws different amount of power depending how much work it has to do. At idle it would draw less power than when it has to run near 100% CPU utilization.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:49:08 am
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 07, 2025, 07:41:39 pmhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/why-does-new-laptop-take-up-far-more-energy-than-the-old-one/msg5969043/#msg5969043

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:54:25 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 08, 2025, 01:40:42 amSounds like the one I just replaced. I found it fine for casual browsing, which is what I do mostly, apart from the limiting 60gb emmc hard drive. On the other hand, although I have far more storage with this old school spinny laptop I am using now, I find it is far slower to load things.I looked up the stats and apparently emmc are often 400mb/s while this old hard drive is only 100mb/s transfer, so I am guessing that is why. Still I have gotten used to it and don't see that it warrants changing.The huge increase in power consumption is something that may become a problem in the darker months though when I can no longer rely on solar.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:56:51 am
content: Quote from: JustMeHere on July 08, 2025, 03:54:38 amI tried running off the battery when I made the earlier post about checking the discharge rate and the laptop just switched off after only about 30 minutes on battery despite me checking the duration left regularly and it stating over an hour left. So probably the battery is duff to some extent but that is not an issue for me as I just leave it plugged in anyway.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:58:25 am
content: Quote from: Simmed on July 08, 2025, 04:59:01 amThis is the beginner section. Please outline what gear would be used for this.EDIT: Oh I see your post afterwards that answers that. It is not AC it's DC.

author: electroniclearner820327
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 08:06:04 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on July 08, 2025, 07:17:27 amWon't this be another good use for the clamp ammeter I have made a recent post about for recommendations?

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:19:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simmed on July 08, 2025, 07:37:22 amBesides the efficiency of the power supply unit I would be interested only in the computer power consumption and not the charging current. When the battery is full the laptop would stop the charging but how do I know that it won't draw some current for this purpose.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 02:36:58 pm
content: If you want to accurately measure the power consumption of a laptop, just remove the battery and perform the measurement while the device is running solely on external power. This ensures that the measurement reflects the actual current draw, without interference from battery charging or discharging.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 02:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on July 09, 2025, 02:36:58 pmFirstly, you can't remove the battery on modern laptops.Secondly, on the last laptop I had on which you could, a 2011 i7 17" MacBook Pro, if you removed the battery (or it was dead, which mine now is) then the machine runs at 1.0 GHz instead of 2.5 GHz base 3.5 GHz turbo.On my current laptop, a 2023 Lenovo Legion Pro 5i with i9-13900HX I get very repeatable and consistent power consumption on various tasks (on an external Poniie PN2000) by simply leaving it plugged in for long enough for the battery to be fully charged.Another great alternative, which I now own a bunch of an leave various appliances permanently plugged in to them is the TP-Link P110 which are around $15. They don't have a display on them but you can see everything including charts of historical data in the smartphone app. You can also control and query them very simply from Python (or anything else with an HTTP library).Code:#!/bin/env python3from PyP100 import PyP110try:e3600 = PyP110.P110("192.168.1.41","bruce@hoult.org","password")e3600.handshake()e3600.login()e = e3600.getEnergyUsage()print(e["today_energy"], "\t", e["local_time"])except:print("Could not communicate with Tapo");exit(1)

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 07:16:14 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 09, 2025, 02:54:42 pmHow modern? My 2022 Thinkbook has a user removable and replaceable battery.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 02:27:32 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 09, 2025, 07:16:14 pmExact model?To my knowledge and belief all Thinkbooks long ago moved to requiring tools and disassembly to replace a battery. The days of carrying a spare in your rucksack and casually swapping it on a bus are long gone.That they might publish instructions on how the user might service the machine instead of taking it to a professional do not make it a removable battery.To cross threads, my PDQ / Wallstreet II Powerbook has a bay on the left and one on the right. Each bay can take a floppy disk drive, a CD//DVD drive, a hard drive, or a battery. You can swap batteries with the machine running by e.g. popping out the DVD drive, inserting a fresh battery in its bay, popping out the empty battery, putting the DVD drive into the now vacated bay.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 03:40:54 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 10, 2025, 02:27:32 amOh, a small screwdriver is still required, but they give instructions for removing the bottom which is very easy to do and then all of the parts are accessible. I had mine apart several times to add the optional 2.5" SATA drive and upgrade the M2 NVMe SSD.I meant in contrast to newer laptops where the battery is glued in and not generally user replaceable.

author: JustMeHere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 06:05:18 am
content: Quote from: electroniclearner820327 on July 08, 2025, 07:56:51 amYou must calibrate your OS.The other two laptops in front of me do about 30 minutes; however, they use dedicated GPUs and aren't "business" class.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 08:01:03 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 10, 2025, 03:40:54 amThe glued in ones are a bit more difficult to replace but I've done quite a few. I wouldn't call the Thinktop battery "removable" though, by the same logic you could call the mainboard or the display removable.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 05:13:04 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 10, 2025, 08:01:03 amThey sell replacement displays though. I was surprised how easy it was to gain access to most of the modules. The battery comes out very easily.The user serviceable parts include the one SO-DIMM, the M2 and 2.5" SSDs, the fan assembly, and the battery. Looking at what is available from Lenovo, also the hinge cover, hinge, entire bottom cover, fan, display, keyboard, power board (?), main board, speakers, bezel, various brackets, other small parts and modules. Oddly enough I do not see a replacement battery.Many of their other current laptops are not so easy to maintain. If I had the money, I would buy a better (bigger, 16x10 display) laptop and keep this one as a low power server, and I think the replacement I was considering was similarly easy to maintain.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:52:03 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 10, 2025, 05:13:04 pmI hate SO MUCH the trend in the 2010s to using DVD movie aspect ratio everywhere!!Back when that was the available technology I preferred 1280x800 over 1280x720. For many years I used an Apple 30" 2560x1600 monitor (Dell sold the same panel).As a programmer, vertical pixels are soooo much more valuable than horizontal ones.But 16:9 had the production volumes and got a LOT cheaper.I'm so happy my current Lenovo Legion Pro 5i 2023 has 2560 x 1600. And it wasn't even all that expensive ... around US$1500 with a 24 core i9 CPU, 32 GB RAM, and the lowest end 4060 GPU (which I have permanently disabled and using the iGPU anyway)

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:06:21 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 11, 2025, 02:52:03 amMy Lenovo laptop has 16:10 screen but still that is too wide and doesn't have good vertical dimension. I like my Microft Surface because it has 3:2 aspect ratio give me better vertical dimension. Now a wide aspect ratio is good for movies and that is a good reason to make TV like that but for a computer you need a more versatile aspect ratio. How about 1:1?

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:13:31 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 11, 2025, 02:52:03 amIndeed 16:9 is a crappy aspect ratio for pretty much everything.And in fact, if we go back in time, it was total crap also for the only thing it was designed for: movie/TV, since most existing workflows or artistic visions involved either less wide (4:3 or close), or more wide (2.4:1) aspect ratio. 16:9 was totally synthetic and previously non-existing compromise which was forced upon pretty mucheveryone.So just like you as programmer hate it, filmmakers and film enthusiasts did, and some still do, too. Before the DVD era, VHS version was produced either as letterbox or pan/scan ("edge censorship") version. With 16:9 television sets and DVDs, nothing changed: most films were still wider, so edge censorship continued.4:3 as monitor aspect ratio was quite handy; also flip by 90 degrees to make a 3:4 vertical monitor for text documents or code. 9:16 is too narrow for such work, so pretty much the only sensible way to use a 16:9 monitor for code/document workflows is to fit two windows/panels side-by-side, and even for that, 16:10 is better.1600x1200 was excellent resolution for professional work - CAD, code, film, whatever. 1920x1080 was a huge step back even though total pixel count is 8% higher, the lost 120 pixels hurt a lot. 1920x1200 is pretty good for wide scope of work.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 05:39:59 pm
content: My current desktop monitors are 24" 16:10 1920x1200. My laptop is a 15" model with 16:9 1920x1080 display that I picked up from the Lenovo outlet store, so my choices were very constrained or I would have gotten a better display. When I bought my laptop, I considered smaller models, but am glad I went with a larger one.2560x1600 would be the next stop up for me, but there are few choices. The next size up that I see being available is a BenQ 3:2 3840x2560 28.2" monitor which costs three times more than any one of my current monitors. Monitors with other but acceptable aspect ratios are all smaller.Framework's 16" laptop has a 16:10 2560x1600 LCD so is a prime candidate. Lenovo has something similar.Having a laptop with the same resolution as my desktop would be nice, but what I have now is not too far off.