From HP to Agilent, from Agilent to Keysight, what's next? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 09:25:33 am
content: Many people on this forum, stay with their trusted brand. Even if the specs of other scopes are much better in several areas, and you get more value for money, some people are still willing to pay much more, just for getting a particular brand.But actually, you can not say any longer that you pay for the name, because what's in a name, when a company keeps changing names all the time.It seems like that this company has no clue at all about corporate image and branding. Traditional companies like Nike and Coca-Cola do know the value of their corporate name very well. The corporate name of a company can be worth billions:http://profit.ndtv.com/news/industries/article-nike-is-worlds-most-valuable-sports-brand-in-forbes-list-679293Must have been a costly stunt to change the name. Changing the logo's on the products, user manuals and other documentation material, website, establish a new legal entity, etc.They would have better sent their corporate board members to a one day mini-MBA session, to learn about corporate image and branding, and understand the value of a corporate name.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 01:17:21 pm
content: There was probably only one single benefit for this change, called: "Shareholder Value"For everyone else the name change sucked big time.But keep in mind, that for the most part the people behind the company stayed the same.I just had a warranty claim with Keysight Germany on a defective PSU and it was picked up the next day.They called me several times to make sure everything was going as planned.Try that with Tektronix in Germany....As for the most part, I am very happy with my Agilent / Keysight gear.What bugs me more than the name change is the fact, that we will no longer get schematics for new equipment.How will we repair a 2015 Keysight scope in 5 or 10 years, if it should break and the warranty is gone?We are forced to buy new equipment.The days that a scope could last easily 20 years and if needed can be repaired, are over ... it seems.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 01:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on May 02, 2015, 09:25:33 amIt wasn't just a name change for the sake of change. They haven't changed their name, Agilent still exists. Keysight is the T&M division spin off. They created a new company, just as when HP spun off the T&M division in 1999 and called it Agilent, and kept the HP name for their printer/scanner/PC division. Over the years, Agilent has turned itself into a Life Sciences, Diagnostics, Genetics, and Biochemistry company.They wanted to spin off the Test and Measurement Division of Agilent and so they created Keysight. Crap name, but same people, same products.The rest of Agilent is much bigger than the T&M division. They make processing equipment for Biochemistry, Genetics, Biology, Pharmacology, Criminology, Forensics and Toxicology, Medical Diagnostics, Life Sciences, NMR, Spectrometry, Chromatography, Food and Agro test products, Telecommunications and a whole lot more than I've said. (maybe they are out of Telecom now)While they may have started off with Hewlett and Packard in their garage making test equipment... that became such a small part of what Agilent did today. It is, however, the part that we know intimately (as electrical and electronic engineers).As for what's next, I think this is good for the T&M division, as Keysight. They can grow bigger, focusing on T&M, and it will probably be easier for them to develop new products now. I suspect it would have been a yearly headache getting budget money for things they wanted to do, asking up the chain of command to a CEO that ultimately was focusing their company on Life Sciences, Diagnostics and Genetics, and furthering their acquisitions in these disciplines. Now they are their own boss.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 02:18:28 pm
content: This never ceases to amuse me, each time I turn my meter on. It's running the most recent firmware version listed on the website.EDIT:This andthe screen that gets scratched whenever you look at it funny, that is.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 03:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on May 02, 2015, 02:18:28 pmYou can send it in for a upgrade, they can fix it so that the display says Keysight.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 04:31:42 pm
content: Of course this has all been discussed before, including an extensive blog by Dave:http://www.eevblog.com/2014/01/09/hp-err-agilent-has-a-new-name/It seems quite likely that the T&M division had BOTH name changes forced upon them from the corporate masters.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 04:39:35 pm
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on May 02, 2015, 03:21:51 pmSimple and effective. Seems to fix the scratching issue as well. I like it

author: Noise Floor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 04:54:43 pm
content: It is annoying, I agree.However, I think this is a good thing that has happened (maybe I'm to much an optimist). For the first time since the original HP the folks from that legacy are solely focused on T&M. (Hopefully they stay that way this time, see Agilent). Irecently readthat Keysight is actually increasing their spend on R&D:QuoteSo if that is true, it looks like the spinoff has lead to an improvement in investment, hopefully leading to some cool stuff and improvements long term. Maybe the money will be used to provide schematics again.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 05:10:11 pm
content: Users are expected to scrap or "Recycle" their "obsolete" instrumentation every 3-7 years without end. This means profits for the manufactures of this stuff and greater cost to the users under the guise of newer is better in the on going march of technology.The name change from hewlett packard to Agilent was driven by none other than Carly Fironia and the hp Board. They understood well the market value of the hp name brand. The use of hp for computing products and printers were designed to maximize profits and less about preserving what Bill & Dave created. Bill Hewlett's son understood well what was going on at hp and filed a law suite in an effort to stop this.. ended in failure. The entire company episode was much about profits for investors and share holders who put that Bitch In Heels (Carly Fiornia) in as CEO. That Bitch In Heels had the nerve and arrogance to remove Bill & Dave's portrait that stood proud in the lobby of 1501 Page Mill Road.hp had an episode of profit greed back in the 70's. The computing group selling hp300 systems at the time was selling systems at or below cost as an effort to gain market share. The goal was to bust all the other computer companies from that time and take over the market. A marketing strategy that was well use by the Semi companies of that time. Losses from this half-baked idea resulted in significant losses at hp. To keep the ideal running, that computing group went looking for a bank loan of $100 Million USD which was well on it's way and mostly approved. The plan almost went forward.. until Dave Packard returned from his tour of duty with the US State Department. Upon Dave's return and getting word about what was happening, Dave put a stop to the $100 Million dollar loan, increased the market price of the hp 300 systems and reprimanded each and every one of those managers who cooked up this idea. This could have been the seeds of why hp became a computer company, change of name to Agilent and now Keysight. Today hp as a computing company is not doing all that well with The Quaker Oats Guy (Meg from ebay) as CEO.BerniceQuote from: HighVoltage on May 02, 2015, 01:17:21 pm

author: babysitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 07:10:54 pm
content: Had to send my least favourite Ex-Agilent DMM at for repair to Keysight germany. USB interface failed again, just 2 years after the last event. This device has a exchange program and the new meter I got has both names, Agilent and Keysight on the front panel now.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:05:32 pm
content: I don't know why exactly but it makes me cringe every time I see that name and the silly little squiggle logo on something. I just don't like it. There's no telling how much research, time and money went in to deciding on a new name and the best they could do was "Keysight"?

author: The Doktor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:15:58 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on May 02, 2015, 05:10:11 pmWhat do you have against heels? And do you suspect she would do any better if she wore some hideous Birkenstocks? The shoes ain't the problem, the bitch is. And I must add, the current bitch is no better

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:32:22 pm
content: Quote from: The Doktor on May 02, 2015, 10:15:58 pmCome now, why call them names. I too think she made her share of mistakes. HP buying Compac was not smart. Her fault was in judgement, not personality. Calling her dumb or even calling her moron may be more appropriate than bitch.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:47:43 pm
content: Another reason for spin offs is to make it easier for investors to evaluate the stock value.A corporation with (A:) a high-growth plus high-risk business and (B:) a low-growth plus low-risk business makes it difficult to value the stock. So, split it up into two companies each with its own personality in this case helps.Investors who like to take risks for the potential high return go with A, and those "retirement income like" conservative investors can go with B.

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 11:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden"Lockout" perhaps.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 03:01:23 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on May 02, 2015, 10:47:43 pmYeah, and when the lines of business are so independent, what is the benefit in keeping them together? So that people can get into turf battles? Tradition and nostalgia? Whatever. I have a fondness for DEC (first computer I got use of was an PDP 11/34). I even got ahold of some of the MCMs used in later PDP-11 CPUs. I'm also fond of Evans and Sutherland (grew up in SLC a couple of miles from their offices), and hey, the founder of Tektronix was a graduate and major contributor to my Alma Matter, but life goes on. They are just companies, some managed to outlive their founders, some didn't.Seems to me that, as annoying as the name changes are, Keysight is probably better off on its own, as Keysight, than it is jockeying for attention and resources with Agilent other, faster growing businesses, or in something like HP going into the Fiorna era.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 07:16:19 am
content: Maybe they should have chosen "Hingsight 20/20" since it seems that's what is expected from them.

author: Gunb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:16:09 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on May 02, 2015, 09:25:33 amI agree with you.There are names left: Keyless, Lowside, Highside, NoSight, ...Don't like modern times, traditional brands disappear without any reason except making more money.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:22:41 am
content: What would probably be much worse than the name change, would be a takeover by Danaher corporation.A standalone Keysight company is much easier to take over than the huge Agilent company before.

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:31:17 am
content: HPAK, Keithley, Tektronix and Fluke under one roof? That's the last straw! I quit!

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:59:38 am
content: Isn't "Shareholder Value" another one of those MBA buzz phrases?The self-serving management consultant/MBA modus operandi is to continually change things, and whether or not it needs changing, you can be sure at they will change it, after all how are they going to justify themselves otherwise? Six month project followed by a couple of hours of Powerpoints showing ROI within two years, job done.Two years later, how often is that ROi met? Almost never. And where are the self-styled industry expert management consultants when it didn't work out? Oh, they're off another money for old rope job, changing things usually again for trumped up reasons.As has been mentioned, you only have to look at the cluster**** series of HP buyouts in the last 20 years to see how you can take a previously highly regarded brand to junk status, EDS and Autonomy being the latest part of the race to the bottom. I wonder how the Powerpoint presentations, glad handing and golf course politics went before those deals were done?In retrospect it was a good thing that Agilent split off from HP before they were dragged down into mediocrity too. Luckily their customers were wise enough to be able to understand that it was nothing but a name change, and the quality didn't suffer as a result (except perhaps no schematics for servicing of course!). I suspect the Keysight things will be the same, but I still feel it's unnecessary, both the Med/chem and TE sides of the business have good reputations. Yet another win for a sharp-suited MBA/management consultant to earn a few bucks, and who won't be there to answer when the shareholder value didn't quite work out the way those crystal ball gazing overly optimistic Powerpoint slides said they would.Side note: I did enjoy reading Rupunzell's description, although if a bloke had used the term "bitch in heels" I fear he'd be at risk of being branded a misogynist! :-)

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:45:23 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on May 03, 2015, 08:22:41 amThey might be able to block such a takeover as it would create a Danaher monopoly , since they already own Fluke, Keithley and Tektronix.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:52:53 am
content: Danaher and Keysight might, however, both compete for a Rigol takeoverRigol is privately held, the founder(s) might be ready to cash outRigol: 400 employees, 75MM in revenuesKeysight: 9700 employees, 2900MM in revenues.Also, in their favor, Keysight already has a relationship with them.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 11:11:29 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on May 02, 2015, 10:32:22 pmIn Fiorina's defense, it has to be said that she learned from her mistake. She seems to have realized that running such a big company is not her strength, an now she is striving for something else:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina_presidential_campaign,_2016"It has been widely reported that Fiorina will announce her candidacy on May 4, 2015 via an online announcement."

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 03:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on May 02, 2015, 09:25:33 amI think you misunderstand the reason for the change - it wasn't because Agilent decided they needed a new name, it was because the much larger potion of Agilent that actually makes money wanted to dump the T&M division, so they split off into a new company which needed a new name. The parts of Agilent they cared about kept the name.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 03:31:15 pm
content: Fiornia gave us this, though it didn't have quite the effect she hoped:

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 03:38:46 pm
content: Quote from: Nerull on May 03, 2015, 03:27:33 pmNonsense. There was no need to change the name, other than marketing. There are plenty of companies that have split up and kept similar names for both new companies. Rolls-Royce, for example.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 04:16:29 pm
content: That name "Bitch In Heels" was well earned by Carly Fironia by those who worked at hp as Carly was destroying all that Bill & Dave had built. Unless you worked at hp during that time or knew a LOT of folks who worked there that name for Carly Fironia will come across as offensive and derogatory. Except it is a very, very fitting name for Carly Firona who was an arrogant arse with an agenda to please the board who put Carly there and expected to make the board and investors a pile-O-money at the cost of destroying the hp brand.For those who have interest to see what Bill & Dave's hp once was, read a few of hp's Measure magazine. This was mostly an internal publication for those who worked at hp or had access and interest in what was happening at hp.In this particular issue of Measure from 1981 after John Young became president of hp, there was a discussion about profits, employee compensation and where sales dollars went. Bill & Dave set the company up to turn a 8-9% profit with the rest going to employee profit sharing, employee benefits, re-investments into R&D and making sure hp was forging ahead with technology and generally investing in their future.http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1981_03-04.pdfAfter the death of Bill Hewlett & Dave Packard, the board (consist of large stock share holders and similar) decided to use hp as a money mill for their own gain. The method was to dump the low profit T&M stuff and go for the high profit PC and related computing market. This is what put Carly into the CEO position. hp has never been the same ever since. Once became a computer company, there were violations of anti-trust laws, law suites involving partly filled ink cartridges and a lot more. All the greed driven business practices that Bill & Dave would never do or allow.To this day, Meg at as CEO has only resulted in a continuation of the downward spiral of hp. In many ways, little to no difference to what happened when John Scully (Soda company CEO) took over Apple.Much of Apple's success was due to Steve Jobs summer job and time with Bill & Dave's hp. That experience forever changed Steve Jobs.BerniceQuote from: The Doktor on May 02, 2015, 10:15:58 pm

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 04:19:41 pm
content: Carly would make a absolutely AWFUL president. Carly learned ZERO from destroying hp. One needs to meet this Bitch In Heels to fully understand the sheer arrogance, over-entitlement and fantasy out of touch world Carly lives in.BerniceQuote from: Blofeld on May 03, 2015, 11:11:29 am

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 04:31:27 pm
content: Correct, the name change was completely marketing driven. Those involved knew well the marketing and brand identity value of the hp name. If T&M retained hp with the newly minted PC-Printer-Computing business named Compac, which name could sell more, have more brand recognition and the potential for greater profits?I'll bring up another example of how profit driven companies that venture into the volatile world of consumer electronics often get's burnt. Linear Technology. During the early 2000's, LT ventured into the consumer electronics market (happened when Bob Swanson tried to retire as president-CEO), this move significantly increased company profits until that market bombed. The resulting hard times at LT. After this episode, Bob Swanson worked hard to convince the board to never allow consumer electronics to become a significant market for LT. Since then LT has limited their involvement with the consumer electronics market. In time LT recovered and is doing well today.The majority of companies run purely for profit by MBA types are often hollow and are not about quality or value of product, they only know pretty much what they have been taught in business school with lesser consideration for the long term picture. They are also driven by investors-share holders to produce as much return on investment as possible. This becomes a share holder-investor centric ideology for running a business which is good to great for share holders-investors and more often that not, not so good for those who work at these companies and those who are associated with their product offering.BerniceQuote from: Len on May 03, 2015, 03:38:46 pm

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 04:38:46 pm
content: Curious to learn more about what Tektronix was like before being run into the gutter by Danaher?Get a copy (can be found used on line) of "Winning With People. The First 40 Years of Tektronix" by Marshall Lee.http://www.vintagetek.org/2011/11/winning-with-people-author-oregonian-article/Add Leitz Microscopes & optics to the list of companies Danaher has run into the gutter.BerniceQuote from: HighVoltage on May 03, 2015, 08:22:41 am

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:00:55 pm
content: Quote from: Len on May 03, 2015, 03:38:46 pmIts funny you mention Rolls-Royce. The Rolls-Royce name and vehicle production were sold to two different companies, so the company that used to make Rolls-Royce cars (Owned by VW) is now Bentley and an entirely new company (owned by BMW) builds current Rolls-Royce cars. The only connection between the companies is the name. So much for brand continuity.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on May 03, 2015, 04:31:27 pmIn fact, the MBA types are just very adept at selling bullshit and convincing shareholders that they know what they're doing. In reality there's little difference to what they do and a being a tarot card reader. They have no idea what's going to happen in a year or two year's time let alone in six months, they are there to change things for change's sake to justify themselves. If they don't change anything then why are they there? That is why HP bought Compaq, Florina wanted to prove something, that she could make a strategic decision. But during her four year tenure, HP stock value fell by over 60%. So much for "shareholder value".

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: Nerull on May 03, 2015, 05:00:55 pm...and ironically HP is now splitting into Hewlett-Packard Enterprise (business services) and HP Inc (box shifting). Deja vu.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:42:22 pm
content: Root foundation to this discussion about company name and all related to this, the very individuals within the company that results in company actions, products and their brand identity in the market place.Not too long ago a book titled "The Company That No One Leaves" about Linear Technology was published in Japan by Nikkei. It was translated to english and is available by request from LT.“We make sure people appreciate we’re an engineering company,” adds Swanson, “we do the hard stuff – that’s how we survive.”http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/components/analogue-and-discretes/electronica-the-company-which-nobody-leaves-2012-11/Bernice

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:44:34 pm
content: What kind of President would an individual with this record and history make as head of state?BerniceQuote from: Howardlong on May 03, 2015, 05:09:41 pm

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on May 03, 2015, 05:44:34 pmLets not get into partisan politics here, but what kind of a president did a "community organizer" make? Will he leave the country (and the world, for that matter) a better, safer, or more financially sound place? He doesn't have much time (or political capital) left to accomplish anything.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 07:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on May 03, 2015, 05:44:34 pmThe same kind as the other bunch in that party, i.e. Romney and the other numb nuts. I guess an incompetent ex-CEO would make a good fit for a group of Christian Fundamentalists, Creationists, Climate Change Deniers, Ayn Rand Fanatics, people that want to legislate idiotic stuff like pi=3 or personhood for eggs, and retards who believe nonsense like that a woman can't get pregnant when raped.In fact, amongst these misfits and imbeciles, you could very well say that by "just" being incompetent she's probably the epitome of a presidential candidate from that party.Frightening, isn't it?

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:05:57 pm
content: Some of the marketing mantras of the late '90's were:- Synergy: Merge two different things so they complement each other- Efficiency: Merge two similar things so the overlaps can be eliminated and similar functions can be combined- Consumables: Get a continuing revenue stream once the hardware or the software license is installedHP tried all of these at the same time. The trouble is that all those move one along the same way as coasting uphill - easy for a while, then what?Along the way they forgot that the hard work of offeringvalueat areasonableprice is what moves the organization forward at a pace that is realistic.Motorola did much the same in reverse, splitting into Motorola for call phones, Freescale for processors, and ON for logic.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:06:20 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on May 03, 2015, 05:49:33 pmWhile leaving much to be desired, a considerably better one than his predecessor.(I detest the "Lets not talk about X, but first let me have the last word on X" trick)

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 04:59:06 pm
content: First off: The name changes from HP to Agilent to Keysight were *involuntary*. (The choice of "Keysight" itself was voluntary, unfortunately) The T&M division has been the red-headed stepchild that takes inordinate amounts of overhead to produce limited profits - which is why it keeps being spun off. The real gravy in the industry today is making equipment that *applies* a measurement method to produce a meaningful result to a non-electrical engineer / technician. Building equipment that merely performs fundamental measurement is not where the value is, ironically enough.So, what I'm seeing is Keysight monetizing the service side by restricting documentation and parts availability. Need to replace a simple elastomer keypad? No more ordering the part. Back to Keysight for a $750 repair. Annoying and prohibitive for small operators, but this new way of working will likely be accepted by larger organizations who are AgilSight's bread and butter.Expect to buy service contracts in order to have affordable ongoing support for your equipment. Some of these contracts are very reasonably priced. Some are not. So this is a mixed bag of good/not-so-good.The other thing I see is marketing-crippled functionality. Expect to be pushed into more software solutions such as buying a BenchVue license instead of being able to log directly to a USB stick on your DMM.I will like some parts of AgilSight less than the old way. The upshot is that the revenue stream might keep AgilSight independent and T&M-focused.The hopeful part I see is how Keysight is releasing very competitive offerings in DMMs. I'm hoping that the aggressiveness there is realized elsewhere in their product line - where the end result is while the equipment may not be the absolute, least expensive - it is the best value. I'm hoping that they retool the low-end scope line based on the value proposition.