Open Hardware Schematic design and layout - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jwhitmore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 11:38:05 am
content: At risk of starting a religious war I need to ask about this. :-(I've been working on, what will to be an open Hardware design for quite some time. I started from scratch and unfortunately started with Eagle. To be fair eagle has worked really well for me but Open it ain't. There is an argument that a Hardware design ain't really Open if you release the design in Eagle, which I have to agree with.That means I have to bite the bullet and move my designs to another design package and suffer the resulting learning curve. (One of the reasons I ended up on Eagle was that there was a good eBook on amazon that I could read on my kindle over a coffee and go through the whole process.) Now at risk of offending people the two that seem to get mentioned the most are gEDA and Kicad but there are a host of them:http://www.electroschematics.com/2249/pcb-design-software/I'm sure this has probably been asked a million times and answered a couple of million times as well but things change. There is a comment on that page I referenced that Kicad was unstable on Linux. I'll be using whatever on Linux so that pushes me towards gEDA but that comment was from a year ago. A lot changes in a year in an opensource project with legs. Actually most important feature of an OpenSource project is a helpful community.OK there is no right answer to the question so perhaps I should just go with gEDA they're probably "same same but different"I think this is called "rubber ducking" sitting down verbalising the problem leads to a resolution. Unless somebody have HUGE reason not to it's gEDA. Thank you all for your help.John

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 11:43:44 am
content: KiCAD was deemed the best option for the people at CERN, it may be the same thing applies to you. If you try KiCAD be sure it's the latest release and not the old one.Good luck!

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 06:54:53 pm
content: Quote from: jwhitmore on November 10, 2015, 11:38:05 amSeems stable enough to me, but then I steer clear of the bleeding-edge stuff and only update to tried and tested releases.

author: jwhitmore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 07:04:47 pm
content: Who is CERN?Only joking ;-) and you can't argue with them folks over there so Yeah I'll go with kiCAD and see where that takes me. Already have it installed and reading the basics.Thanks for the info

author: mike_58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 03:12:59 pm
content: Hello,There is quite a good reflow oven controller +Open surce - here :https://github.com/0xPIT/reflowOvenController/blob/master/README.mdwith description and Eagle Cad drawings .... Similar to this ... seams more simple and with Adafruit 1.8" TFT ...

author: awallin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 06:49:07 pm
content: On a somewhat related note, what do people use for circuit simulation?LTSpice is free, works under wine on linux, but the user interface is quite horrible.NI Multisim is not free, works only under windows (?), but has a nicer user interface.What about qucs, any good?http://qucs.sourceforge.net/other alternatives?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 10:48:14 pm
content: If you can design it with the free version of Eagle than your design is open enough. This is what I am doing.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2015, 07:27:29 pm
content: Eagle free license has several restrictions, eg if you have plan on selling OSHW designs then you have to license it.https://oshpark.com/profiles/zapta- did you pay for a license?Kicad still has some rough edges, and it is a pity that the developers are mostly a bunch of jerks, but it is fully usable. I see more people switching over to Kicad from Eagle (eg. Sparkfun,Adafruit,Dangerous Prototypes,Olimex), I think the CERN involvement has given a lot reassurance.If you are starting out with a new OSHW project, it makes much more sense to use Kicad than Eagle.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2015, 01:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: awallin on December 19, 2015, 06:49:07 pmAs you've mentioned: LTSpice and also TINA TI.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2015, 03:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on December 20, 2015, 07:27:29 pmI have a paid license but I use only the free version to make sure others can use the files freely.BTW I don't sell any of my designs.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2015, 03:11:29 pm
content: I'll probably get some flak for this , but : while CERN may be helping to develop KiCad , you can bet top dollar that NOTHING in that large hadron collider was made with KiCad ... Sure someone at CERN is using KiCad , just like someone at Nasa is using it, or someone at xyz is using it.Just saying ...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2015, 03:17:16 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 21, 2015, 03:11:29 pmWhy should they? The Arduino boards they use for the collider come with Eagle files.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2015, 03:30:22 pm
content: Well, yes. They're not just developing it for themselves, it's part of a larger plan:http://press.web.cern.ch/press-releases/2011/07/cern-launches-open-hardware-initiativehttp://home.cern/about/updates/2015/02/kicad-software-gets-cern-treatment

author: analogNewbie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2015, 09:35:04 am
content: Quote from: awallin on December 19, 2015, 06:49:07 pmhttp://www.mouser.com/MultiSimBlue/

author: Cloud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 10:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on November 10, 2015, 11:43:44 amActually the latest KiCad stable release is very unstable and full of bugs. The 2013 stable version works the best for me

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2015, 01:06:16 pm
content: Quote from: Cloud on December 24, 2015, 10:11:33 pmCan you please provide more details about your issues?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 01:49:25 pm
content: To be a stickler, the definition gives enough leeway to releasing the gerbers and schematic to being more than enough to modify or replicate in any software package, just not as easily as with the original design files and the knowledge to use the package.I would say layout in what best suits you, if something needs specific structures. e.g. an antenna structure, then describe it on the schematic, If i was making something public, then schematic and Gerber should be enough, and to be honest you dont generally have to go out of your way about it,

author: funkathustra
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 02:16:20 am
content: I agree that KiCAD is the "true" open-source platform for making open-source hardware. However, it's still a bit of a novelty software package. Old versions are really stable, but lack basic features (push-n-shove routing, length tuning, etc). New versions have a ton of new functionality, but crash often.Altium's CircuitMaker -- while itself not an open-source software package -- is built from the ground up for open-source hardware. It's completely free to download and use, and unlike Eagle's free version, you can do anything with your designs that you want (you're not restricted to noncommercial use, as free Eagle does).It's cloud-based, so that means there's a huge library of shared parts ready to design with, and there's already hundreds of designs that you can download and contribute to.Since it uses Altium Designer's codebase, it's obviously Windows-only (like most high-end CAD packages), but it runs well enough on virtual machines to be useful to people who run OS X or Linux.

author: dmwahl
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 03:10:24 am
content: Why does open source hardware need to be created in open source software? Seems to me like open source just means you provide the source for anyone who wants to use it, not that the software used to create it is necessarily open. The Arduino hardware is released as open source, yet the design files are in Eagle.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 03:30:34 am
content: It doesn't need to be, but the mentality that leads to one tends to also lead to the other...Personally, if I'm giving away a design, I want to really give it away, with a software package that is both very affordable (free!) and doesn't impose any artificial limitations. Just because I like those things, that's why I decided to give the design away in the first placeI'm sure that applies to plenty of other people doing open hardware too.I'm not doing high-end CAD, I don't care if most high-end CAD packages are Windows only... Idon't do cloud... etc etc...

author: charlespax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 10:43:55 am
content: I look at what you're doing as two related, but separate projects. The first is getting your hardware project done. The other is learning KiCAD or other open source tool. I recommend continuing forward with your hardware project, focusing on getting it done. Learn KiCAD on the side or after your project is complete. When your hardware project is complete your first kiCAD project can be transcribing your Eagle files into KiCAD. With this approach you can get your hardware done without worrying about learning a new software package and you can learn a new software package without worrying about designing new hardware.Making one project depend on the other will make your hardware project take longer. You may never even finish it. Life tends to increase in complexity and personal projects are one of the first things to flex out of the way. Get your hardware project done while you can.

author: altaic
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2016, 01:18:06 am
content: OS X user, here. I've been using KICAD off and on for years, and, yeah, it's got many UI/UX issues.On a brighter note, however, wxWidgets now supports multitouch in the development build (v3.1), which will be included in the next stable release (v3.2). Even more interestingly, the KICAD guys seem to have patched in multitouch support to the nightly builds:http://downloads.kicad-pcb.org/osx/nightly/There are still a few little control issues, but it's so much more useable now.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 10:28:48 am
content: For me personally, the product itself matters.By that I mean, don't let something like software limit your ideas!!I rather have an awesome idea that is maybe even made in bootlegged software, but documented very well so other people can use it and maybe improve it, than no project at all.It's about helping the community, not restricting it.So, I personally don't get the whole fuzz.From a practical point of view. Your project will be a bit more accessible if you use something like KiCad.Another option is using different formats, so everyone is happy. From a design point of view that's only a pain in the butt.It is sometimes a difficult compromise. I think KiCad is to limited, especially if you go for multiple layer boards with high density.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 11:50:51 am
content: As one option for Kicad for open source, and with the advantage to learn the basics if Altium since circuit maker is a simpler version of Altion based on the cloud , Who will help you to get a job latter, you can register and use circuitmaker.com for free

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 05:05:30 pm
content: Quote from: awallin on December 19, 2015, 06:49:07 pmQucs looks very tempting, although I haven't put the time into learning it properly yet.Anything that can simulate microstrip filters and other distributed-element RF devices for free is extremely tempting.

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 05:59:12 pm
content: Quote from: awallin on December 19, 2015, 06:49:07 pmWhat's your exact issue with LTSpice? I really like its user interface, once you remember the keyboard shortcuts, it's a breeze to use. As far as schematic editors go, LTSpice IMO is one of the better ones out there. Really good feature: You can draw nets 'through' parts and the net will be split automatically, huge time saver. Haven't come across a single schematic editor that does that as well.Another open-source EDA package:http://www.pcbelegance.org/

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 07:17:56 am
content: I think you're the only who likes the user interface of LTSpice

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 08:19:50 am
content: Quote from: b_force on October 20, 2016, 07:17:56 amI like it as well. It's not your conventional point and click Windows style interface, but once you get the hang of it it's actually pretty fast and easy. You just have to get used to it being keyboard driven instead of point and click driven. On the other hand, Eagle does not use a conventional point and click interface and I find it quite kludgey at times. I never feel that way with LTSpice.

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2016, 12:18:00 am
content: Quote from: CraigHB on October 20, 2016, 08:19:50 amBack then, when I used Eagle (switched to kicad recently), I configured the Eagle shortcuts to mimic the LTSpice ones. LTSpice and Eagle actually have conceptually very similar user interfaces. Both don't have an idea of a 'selection', they just go command, select objects, done.