Selling repaired electronics - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jmcc1328
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 08:40:56 am
content: how illegal is it to sell diy repaired electronics as a hobby in australia? Dumpster dive tvs and such and sell on facebook/gumtree. I have no qualifications though currently studying a BEng Electrical.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 08:45:49 am
content: I don't know if there is anything specific in Australian law, but generally, you become legally responsible for the electrical safety of the item that you sell (unless you sell it as non working or for parts).

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 10:16:40 am
content: In Canada, I know that for a fact that picking up anything from the trash is illegal.You should look if you need a reseller's license.Also, if it's serialized stuff. You better know where to submit the serial number and info of where and how you found it.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 11:00:29 am
content: Businesses spend a chunk of change each year for insurance for a reason and while I am not suggesting you go down that path for private sales you should be aware of it.You need to tread VERY carefully. If something you touched goes up in smoke in a house even if the cause is not the bit you touched there is a more than fair chance YOU will be gone after legally if damage or injury occurs.Best option is you make zero mention of the words 'refurbished', 'repaired', 'tested' etc all those words imply knowledge/warrantee of some sort and what follows is increased potential liability. Providing you make no 'changes' to an electrical device in Oz that devices original approval should still hold so the device remains ok to sell.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 11:46:45 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 04, 2021, 08:45:49 amI know nothing about the countries listed, but I suspect this is not enforceable at all for private sales - one can always claim the sold item was fudged by the buyer after the sale.Sites like eBay, Craigslist, Offerup, etc. would not be able to have the concept of a "used" item (i.e., working) for lots of things, even non-electronic. Imagine selling a chair that breaks, hurts someone and the buyer claims you messed with it? How can you be responsible?

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 05:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 04, 2021, 11:46:45 amIf you work on it you can be a target for a lawyer.QuoteThere is a massive difference between a used appliance and one somebody has worked on / repaired for profit.QuoteAgain a huge difference because in this case you are in business selling repaired equipment. In the USA electricians have been thrown into jail for manslaughter due to screw ups that have lead to fire. This is a real touchy subject because an old house may have had dozens of people working on it over the years. Even if there is no criminal prosecution you still have civil liabilities to contend with. This is why you deal with contractors that are fully insured.Now I have no idea what the legal landscape is outside of the USA. However I can't imagine somebody in such a business would be completely free of liability. Automobiles for example, sold used and operable, would have to be good for the purpose at the time of sale.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 06:35:45 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on April 04, 2021, 05:00:03 pmOperative word: enforceable. Lawyers can sue for any ridiculous reasons, but hard to prove anything.Quote from: wizard69 on April 04, 2021, 05:00:03 pmIs there, really? One could blame you for mistreating or not properly maintaining a specific item and selling something potentially dangerous, even if you did not actively repair it. Again, how to really enforce liability?Quote from: wizard69 on April 04, 2021, 05:00:03 pmThe OP says it is a hobby. Sure, if you are a business then you need to CYA, but a private sale? Hardly enforceable.Quote from: wizard69 on April 04, 2021, 05:00:03 pmI agree it is a touchy subject, but P.E. (Professional Engineering) is regulated in a very specific way, including liability for your work. It is so regulated that we were instructed by our company to not have the word " Engineer " in our business cards! IMHO ridiculous, but that is the rule of the land around here.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 07:20:27 pm
content: Quote from: Raj on April 04, 2021, 10:16:40 amIn the USA, once you put your trash curb-side, assuming you are not in private community, it is public area and thus is perfectly legal for someone to dig into your trash. With such difference even between USA and Canada, good chance Australia would be different as well.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 06:06:12 am
content: In Canada it is indeed legal to pick from curb sides ,back alleys and public land fills provided you don't trespass or break at enter. Private facilities are off limits to picking but in many cases OK if you ask. Depends on the owner .Curb sides , alleyways and public landfills are considered public domain according to Canadian law . Individual municipalities may have bylaws but haven't encountered any problems where I live.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 06:11:58 am
content: Assuming you're talking a handful of things as a hobby, it's a total non-issue, I've fixed and sold/traded electronics and other items for many, many years, and so have many thousands of other people. It's a hobby for me that I do to keep things out of the landfill and make a little bit of hobby money. Fix it properly so that it's safe to use and you'll have no problems at all.Is it possible that someone could find a way to hurt themselves and sue you? Sure, but no matter what you do, the risk of something really bad happening to you will never be zero, so my advice is don't sweat it. Trust me, the police have better things to do than come hassle you for selling a TV or something you pulled out of the trash and fixed.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 06:17:26 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on April 04, 2021, 05:00:03 pmWhenever I've bought or sold cars, the sale has always been as-is, where-is, no warranties expressed or implied. It is 100% on the buyer to inspect the vehicle and determine if it is fit for purpose prior to completing the sale. In most cases I knew about most of the problems going in, and expected to find more, that's just par for the course when dealing in older cars. Now you can buy used cars that come with a warranty, some are even certified by the manufacture, but you pay accordingly. Others are strictly as-is, if it breaks down as you're driving away from the seller, that's your problem, not theirs.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 08:40:37 am
content: In the UK there are different rules for businesses vs private sales of used cars. A used car sold by a dealer has to be roadworthy and fit for purpose.For a private sale that's not the case, but the car must still be as advertised. You can't, for example, describe a car as having no mechanical faults if it does in fact need engine repair,even if you didn't know about the fault.For that reason, whenever I've sold a car, I've always kept my description short and factual: make/model, age, mileage, specification, price. I don't say anything about the condition that's not immediately verifiable at the time of sale.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 11:27:47 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 08, 2021, 08:40:37 amTo use your analogy, the OP would be suggesting buying/acquiring wrecks, fixing them and selling them on. In Australia and because of the car industry generally, unless you are a certified repairer then selling repaired cars is a nono.Of course people still do it and where I am the ramifications depend largely on what you fixed, how often you do it and most importantly who complains and if the MTA (motor trader's asc) make a stink because you be encroaching on their member's turf.https://www.mtansw.com.au/And if the vehicle somehow gets involved in a serious incident, authorities will start wanting to have chat with you.That said, regarding repairing electronics falls under the jurisdiction's consumer protection agency.https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/other-helpful-agencies/consumer-protection-agenciesFind yours and ask them.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 11:34:25 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on April 04, 2021, 07:20:27 pmMy understanding is anything on the kerb is fair game. The general policy is leave the stack tidier than you found it and don't get caught adding stuff to it. Yes. It's a thing.

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 01:42:24 pm
content: Dont let them scare you to make the world better.As said use the : working "as is" no warranty label.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 05:44:40 pm
content: In this country it's buyer be ware . Repair and sale of used items is perfectly legal . Warranties only apply to original purchase and any extended warranty is at the discretion of the seller. Sale of used items never implies that a warranty is available and the buyer has no recourse if said item fails , causes or presumed to cause other property damage .As for motor vehicles it is legal to repair and resell.But depending on individual provincial laws , the buyer is responsible and required for vehicle inspection by a licensed mechanic before registration and/or issuance can be issued . Inspection , registration and insurance laws vary from province to province .

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 05:54:03 pm
content: Here I do recall there is some threshold on the number of cars sold within a period where at some point you have to be a licensed dealer, but I think that's something like more than 5 cars a year, so not something the average shadetree mechanic is going to run into and even then it's not something I've ever heard of anyone having trouble with. They just don't want to end up with salvage yards all over suburban neighborhoods. Dealerships can absolutely sell cars as-is with no warranty here, it's not uncommon to see "mechanic specials" advertised, cars with some known problem like a bad gearbox or something, specifically targeted at somebody who wants a project. Obviously these known-defective cars have no warranty.Usually when I've sold some piece of gear I do offer a very basic warranty, like give them a few days to check it out and bring it back if they find any problems, but so far I've never actually had to take something back and there's certainly no requirements.