Huge price difference for nearly same cap - why?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:28:40 am
content: While try to learn about caps, reading spec sheets and comparing, I have stumbled upon two caps of same brand, model (do I think), only the value differ, oh and yes the price! It's a giant difference, do anyone know why?220uF $4.60https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/555-RFS100V221MK9%235470uF $1.87https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/555-RFO100V471MJ7P

author: martin1454
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:45:02 am
content: One is their RFO series and one is RFS, so it's 2 different series made under 2 completely different requirements.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:47:18 am
content: Could be different construction, different electrolyte and materials, different factory.Other factors could be: distributor order quantities, manufacturing quantities, age of product, etc..Always with 'audiophile grade' products, there could be an idiot tax.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:53:58 am
content: Okay thanks, but are they not same brand, model type and yes everything, except from half capacity for twice the money?EDIT: Ehm forgot, "audiophile grade"? What do you mean, sorry but I do not understand? How would you make any cap "audiophile"? The audio signal do not go trough electrolytic caps of that size, do they?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 07:39:06 am
content: Audio grade is often a designation for a lower-quality part in situations where additional accuracy isn't needed, for example audio-grade potentiometers do not need to be as linear as instrumentation potentiometers. For capacitors it probably relates to microphonic properties (change in dimension). Different foil types or treatments or different wrapper materials could be involved.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 08:07:23 am
content: Audiophile grade capacitors.. I'll stay neutral on this. More reading if you want:http://www.supertech-elec.com.tw/electronic/ECAPS/DMN_design.htmhttps://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/bhc-slit-foil-electrolytic.htmlhttps://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/black_gate_caps.htmletc...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 08:47:31 am
content: Quote from: FriedMule on May 19, 2020, 06:28:40 amThose 220uF 'Silmic' capacitors use some sort or natural silk based separator instead or the normal (cellulose?) paper type. This must be more expensive to source, have additional setup costs for lower volume production runs, etc. Which is bound to push the price up.I make no comment on the effect that this alternative separator has, but they must consider it worthwhile to have created the range from the financial perspective, and they are used by main line audio manufacturers (as are Black gate), who must also consider it financially worthwhile too. BOM cost is usually a very closely controlled consideration.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 09:34:40 am
content: Also, prices in small quantities aren't all that meaningful, anyway.AFAIK, the mainline distributors do tend to track prices competitively, even in low quantity, so it's notthatmeaningless. But still, keep in mind a variance of a buck here or there, it's literally just a buck.Tim

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 09:15:38 pm
content: You are all great! :-)If we ignore that it's audio grade, or let me refrase that. When I was looking trough components, did I only stop at the expensive cap, because it's high price.I had a list of caps and most of them were below 2$ and then jumped out this 2 x price cap. I thought that it had to be a very expensive brand but found out that it's almost only that single 220uF cap that did cost so much.I could see that it was an outlier, but could not find any reason for it. 220uF is, as far I know, not that uncommon, so it could not be because some special production, like a 261.5uF cap would be.In short, that they are audio, do not differ from any of the caps in that series, there construction can't be that different and mass production should also be common for them. So why 2 x price for ½ capacity? :-)

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 09:28:35 pm
content: I mean, if you sort by descending price, you'll likely find all manner of obsolete, unobtainium and military parts. Doesn't mean anything about their ratings (though the mil spec ones, at least, have thorough performance ratings including reliability; the ratings still might not be better, but you're paying in that case for specification, for consistency). May even find a few miscategorized items, that aren't even capacitors; no database is perfect.Tim

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 09:31:48 pm
content: Quote from: FriedMule on May 19, 2020, 09:15:38 pmJust keep moving down the list and stop when you reach one that meets your price and specification requirements. There's no point in arguing with market forces, if customers with different requirements to you purchase them at that price, then that is what they will sell for, either that or they don't sell any.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2020, 12:21:55 am
content: I am not arguing with marked forces. You could say that if I did, I would win on the spot. By just not buying. What I am trying is to understand why similar components, same manufacturing, with same construction, same target group, military specifications and so on, can cost so different. If there are a logical reason? :-)

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2020, 12:32:37 am
content: The 2 capacitors you linked to are different,look at the data sheet, without going further than the first few linesQuotewhilst the otherQuoteso not the same.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2020, 12:34:32 am
content: The caps you linked are not the same model and do not have the same construction.If you want to ignore all the relevant details to why they might be priced differently than there really isn't much to talk about.ELNA markets the RFS caps as their "highest grade" audio caps. Whether that actually means anything or not, it sets their price point. 90% of the price of "premium grade" anything is marketing. It's hard to sell something as both high quality and cheap.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2020, 03:22:55 am
content: Sorry! Okay that do make sence then, for some stupid reason did I thought that they were of same type and build.Did find them both by sorting via Mouser, untill only one brand and name were left.I thank you all!! :-)