Tektronix MDO3000 Now includes the 3GHz Analyser for free. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 11:26:33 pm
content: Tek actually listened to the teardown and the comments, and based on that feedback they are now going to include the 3GHz spectrum analyser option for free!Supposedly only for a limited 5 months time though. Starting April 21st.Oh, and you get a free protocol option too (presumably any one you like?)I love these oscilloscope feature wars, everyone winsThis will no doubt catapult Tek back into the top spot in the mid range scope category.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 11:54:39 pm
content: Nice. MDO3012 costs £2,250 right now (+20% VAT.) That's actually really good value as you're getting the near-equivalent of a £1,500 minimum spectrum analyser built in.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 02:17:10 am
content: Really quite nice. What's happening in the cell phone industry here in the US is hitting the scope market. This would make th e MDO3000 significantly better than the DSOX3000, and maybe even the DSOX4000, but without the zone triggering.

author: vvanders
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 02:19:52 am
content: Now lets just hope Agilent counters with unlocking more of their scope features for poor sods like us.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 02:22:30 am
content: Quote from: vvanders on April 15, 2014, 02:19:52 amIf you were able to buy a DSOX3000 then you aren't really a poor sod

author: vvanders
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 04:28:20 am
content: Fair enough, to be fair I bought it as an investment in good test equipment, I just wish the logic board wasn't over a grand.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 02:46:02 pm
content: How can you get a protocol analyzer when the digital channels are still an option?

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 04:05:37 pm
content: Quote from: WVL_KsZeN on April 15, 2014, 02:46:02 pmBecause on many of these class scopes, the protocol analysis/connection (I2C, SPI etc) is via the the analogue channels (1, 2 or ..., depending on protocol) and NOT through the digital channels...cheers,george.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 04:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: WVL_KsZeN on April 15, 2014, 02:46:02 pmOn the analog channels, do decode.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 10:08:59 pm
content: Quote from: georges80 on April 15, 2014, 04:05:37 pmWhen defining a Bus on these scopes, the inputs can be from the digital channels or the analog channels, or a combination of both. Thus, you can do Bus decodes with just the analog channels if you like.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 11:22:35 am
content: Still, they're asking for $1500 to enable the digital inputs (ok, that includes the probe). That's just crazy.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 11:35:12 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on April 16, 2014, 10:52:43 amTrue, but a 3GHz spectrum analyser is a mighty big carrot. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people don't have such tight requirements on a scope that the MDO3000 couldn't provide?

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 12:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 16, 2014, 11:35:12 am

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 01:12:08 pm
content: Engineers are the little rabbits scurrying around ffrom one side of the cage to the other. The others, e.g. R&S don't have as large as carrots.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 12:34:31 pm
content: That actually makes the 100 MHz version very attractive, or rather, you'd be buying a 3 GHz SA with free 100 MHz oscilloscope in it

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 01:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on April 17, 2014, 12:34:31 pm...and a DVM/counter on the scope channels...

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 04:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on April 17, 2014, 12:34:31 pmYes, for anyone evaluating scope alternatives, thinking they'd also like to work an SA into the budget too (soon if possible, or later if necessary), this becomes averyattractive option.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 05:12:31 pm
content: Quote from: Mark_O on April 17, 2014, 04:47:52 pmHaving an integrated 3GHz TG would have made it a no-brainer purchase. Given the architecture of the scope, the hardware of the SA is 'nearly' free, but adding the 3GHz TG would have cost them real money. Anyhow, without the TG, imho, Tek missed thethey were likely hoping for.cheers,george.

author: Mr Simpleton
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 09:06:11 pm
content: Not sure the built-in SA will have the full functionality that a true SA do offer, i.e. low phae noise/DR narrow RBWAnyone got link to SA performance???Not overly impressed by the SA in our older Tek-scope at work (cannot remember the numbers, a few years old), infact the whole scope made me wanted to get the fire axe. Instead found an old Tek 465 that did what I needed. Jeez talk about non-intuitive controls, and lagging buttons Yuk!

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 09:18:53 pm
content: Yes, I looked at the specs of the spectrum analyser in the MDO range and the performance is pretty woeful in terms of making 'traditional' measurements like distortion and spurious free dynamic range and close to carrier phase noise.http://uk.tek.com/sites/tek.com/files/media/media/resources/MDO3000-Oscilloscope-Datasheet-1.pdfBut if you take advantage of its wide capture range I assume you can grab (and post process?) data captured over a huge bandwidth. So for me, this analyser is still a very interesting tool. It can't replace a traditional analyser for most of the stuff I do but for casual use and for capturing signal data over a huge bandwidth it is quite remarkable plus the overall scope is a very versatile box of tricks in such a small footprint.But people need to be aware that its spectrum analyser performance is going to be woeful when doing traditional spectrum analyser measurements. A 35 year old HP analyser will totally outclass it for these measurements. But if you only want to make casual measurements to a low spec then it could prove OK in this respect

author: Mr Simpleton
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 09:36:59 pm
content: Agree to that! But still not sure how it will compare to the "traditional" real-time-SA which have 80-160 MHz BW. Guess it is all about dynamic range. Not sure how you do capture the data... the buffer would fill up fast, so some sort of post processing would be esential, but what do you loose then? We do have the RSA6120B which do OK, but the windows UI no fun at all, and on top the latest f/w did slow down some essential features, and has now to be brought back through a free option wich must be approved by US Gov. Not a biggie but come on..... next time we get the R&SNow did a little search and realized the one we have at work is the MDO4000 and this is one awful UI! If I need a scope this one will be LAST one I pick, I'd rather go home and pick up my Rigol 2072. Tek have come a long way... I had a 485 on my lab desk for years and that was pure joy to use... And a few Infiinium scopes that are not bad at all, and now the MDO4000

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 10:01:25 pm
content: Compared to a modern signal/spectrum analyser with a wide (digital) IF BW the MDO3000 will come a very poor second. But then the MDO3000 costs less than a tenth of the price of a decent lab grade analyser.Where the MDO3000 SA will also fall over will be in terms of overall measurement uncertainty. They quote +/-2dB but this doesn't include mismatch uncertainty. They also quote this over a restricted range of ref level on the screen. Which all suggests to me that the input match of the input port over the 3GHz range will be pretty grim compared to a proper spectrum analyser when low input attenuation levels are selected. So there could be a hidden gotcha here when trying to measure small signals with reasonable accuracy because the (poor?) input match will introduce high uncertainty to the measurement.The noise floor looks very lumpy to me as well. I can list the differences I think there will be in performance between it and a decent old/used analyser from HP (that now costs less than the MDO3000) but maybe the typical MDO3000 user won't care about the implications of its limited SA performance because they probably only want to make casual SA measurements anyway.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 10:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Simpleton on April 17, 2014, 09:36:59 pmTo each his own. Personally, I find the user interfaces on both the RSA5000 and RSA6000 very easy, intuitive and a pleasure to use. Similarly, I think the UI on the MDO4000 is also very intuitive and straight-forward.The performance restriction on signal capture rate and trigger rate were imposed by new export license restrictions in the US - easy to restore full functionality though with the free option.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 10:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on April 17, 2014, 10:01:25 pmYes, the intent for the SA in the MDO is for very basic spectrum analysis, where 60dB dynamic range is good enough, usable DANL, basic measurements, etc. It certainly isn't going to take the place of a decent mid-range dedicated analyzer, and it wasn't meant to.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 11:14:59 pm
content: AgreedI think one area where the hobby user may come unstuck though is if they used the MDO3000 with an aerial to look at offair signals. Obviously they should also use a protective limiter to prevent damage to the MDO but I would expect that the limited dynamic range of the MDO would cause overload issues?To give a comparison I have an old Japanese spectrum analyser here made in the 1980s that I can inject 0dBm at 145MHz into the analyser with 0dB analyser attenuation and I can also combine this against a signal 115dB lower than this about 1MHz away and the analyser can still display the -115dBm signal on a narrow span with no overload/desensing from the 0dBm signal just 1MHz away.This is a very extreme example but a more realistic example could be the local 138MHz pagers that arrive down my 2metre aerial at up to -30dBm. I would expect that this would be enough to make the MDO3000 fairly useless for looking for small offair signals at VHF. i.e. the hobbyist might get a bit disheartened to find they can't look for small signals in the airband or ham bands due to overload from local pagers etc. I suppose they could make notch filters to null out the pagers but I suspect the MDO3000 is not really an ideal tool for this kind of thing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 11:30:26 pm
content: Quote from: w2aew on April 17, 2014, 10:30:18 pmWhat is this about? Can you explain please?Something is export limited on the MDO3000?

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 11:42:42 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 17, 2014, 11:30:26 pmNo, this was on the RSA6120B Real Time Spectrum Analyzer mentioned by Mr. Simpleton. The US imposed new export licensing requirements for signal analyzers with wide capture bandwidth and real time detection and triggering capability for signal durations less than 15us.No issue on the MDO.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 12:31:16 pm
content: I wonder when rigol will get hold of theis spectrum analyser technology, imagine how much they could make a spectrum analyser for?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 01:33:11 pm
content: Just to repeat... unless you have a need to look at and capture modern wideband data signals (up to 3GHz BW) then this analyser is going to be pretty limited (even for a hobby user).So most people would be better off buying a 1500MHz Rigol DSA815TG because even the low cost DSA815 will easily outperform the MDO3000 analyser for traditional things like measuring distortion or for looking at tiny signals near to large signals (eg for offair monitoring)You could buy a DSA815TG and a decent standalone DSO/MSO and still have a load of change. So I don't really see the MDO3000 as a realistic tool for a hobby user. It's more like a medium priced swiss army knife that has lots of features/options in one tiny footprint and it has the party trick of being able to capture data over a huge RF bandwidth via the 3GHz analyser port with its wideband, high sample rate 8 bit ADC. Therefore, some business users who need this wideband functionality will lap these up because of the relatively low price.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 01:15:16 am
content: Quote from: w2aew on April 17, 2014, 10:38:56 pmGiven its limited performance and lack of a tracking generator, what applications would it be suitable for? EMI compliance engineering?

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 02:23:19 am
content: It still does an excellent job at for examplemeasuring occupied bandwidthspurious emissions/rejection2nd and 3rd harmonicsspectrum maskpower maskof a device that transmits in the 868 MHz (ETSI) or 915 MHz (FCC) ISM band.Those are common measurements you can easily do in the lab with this thing without needing a TG.