MAX1000 or CYC1000? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: fanoush
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 07:38:19 am
content: These are both cheap intel FPGA boards with similar hardware - MAX10 or Cyclone 10 LP. MAX1000 is $10 cheaper ($29 vs $39 at arrow.com) but only has 8k LE vs 25kLE CYC1000. Is this the only practical difference? Which FPA family is newer or has faster fabric? Has one of them better chance to get supported in opensource toolchains (yosys, nextpnr) or at least have better linux tools support? Is there something specific one of them has and the other doesn't? As 8K LEs could be limiting I'd go for CYC1000 due to 25k LEs.I'd also wait for Tinyfpga EX but suppose it will be much more expensive as the ICE40LP8K based BX is already at $38. With arrows 15%discount for new order and free shipping those intel boards look attractive.I've readhttp://zipcpu.com/blog/2017/12/16/max1k.htmland some hackaday articles about MAX1000 board, didn't find much about CYC1000.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 07:56:43 am
content: If you want Linux support then go for Altera and Xilinx. Xilinx has Linux tools for sure and ALtera probably as well.

author: fanoush
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 08:00:44 am
content: Umm, I thought Altera was bought by Intel and that Cyclone 10 LP in CYC1000 is Altera design (not sure about MAX) so does your suggestion include CYC1000 or even MAX1000?EDIT:Found also thishttps://github.com/vpecanins/max1000-tutorialso MAX10 is also Altera design and it says "Free of cost Quartus II IDE available for Linux & Windows" so what about Cyclone 10 LP?

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 07:07:54 pm
content: Quote from: fanoush on October 23, 2018, 07:38:19 amWhich board you choose really depends on the sort of design you're doing.(And forget about open-source FPGA tools.)

author: fanoush
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 06:53:12 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on October 23, 2018, 07:07:54 pmGeneric answers like this one really do not help at all. And more so when specific questions were asked.I was asking what is the difference between MAX10 and Cyclone 10 LP family and what is difference between those boards. To me they look the same except # of LUTs. How can I choose one based on planned design if I don't know the difference?Let me copy/paste questions again:Is 8k LE vs 25kLE the only practical difference?Which FPA family is newer or has faster fabric?Has one of them better chance to get supported in opensource toolchains (yosys, nextpnr) or at least have better linux tools support?Is there something specific one of them has and the other doesn't?It is OK to not answer if you do not know :-)

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 10:45:47 pm
content: Quote from: fanoush on October 24, 2018, 06:53:12 amMy point was this, and it directly addresses your questions.If you only need 8k logic elements for your design, you can choose either part. If the design is larger, you go with the larger parts.Whether a family is newer or not only matters if the tools don't support it, or whether the newer family has a feature your design requires.Which family is faster doesn't matter if both meet the timing requirements of your design. If one doesn't meet those requirements, it's not up for consideration.Re: open-source toolchains -- no. Linux support? Check the Altera/Intel web site.Whether there is something specific one has and the other doesn't only matters if your design needs that feature.Does this clarify why I said your choice is driven by your design requirements?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 02:03:02 am
content: Quote from: fanoush on October 23, 2018, 07:38:19 amare you ordering hundreds of them for your school or something?sounds like its going to be your first fpga dev board, order any one of them (or even $10 EP2C5T144 board from ebay +$3 programmer if $10 makes such a huge difference for you) and start learningQuote from: fanoush on October 23, 2018, 07:38:19 amdoesnt matter, becauseQuote from: fanoush on October 23, 2018, 07:38:19 amthis. You arent choosing wife/house, but a pizza priced boards, buy a couple if it makes you feel better.

author: fanoush
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:02:39 am
content: Oh, nevermind :-)But just FYI all of your answers didn't help at all. For me all of them translate to 'I don't know but I still want to say something' or maybe in more positive way 'I don't know but I still want to help'. I tried to phrase the questions so that I could avoid this type of replies but looks like I failed :-) Of course I already considered everything you said before asking the questions. But thanks anyway.I was hoping for answer from someone who does have practical experience with one or both of these boards or already compared those two FPGA families for his project and could share what he found. Or someone familiar with both families who could say e.g. this family is targeted for X and therefore it has better Y but worse Z. Example: iCE UltraPlus is targeted for very low power therefore the fabric is slow (e.g. ~3 times slower than HX family, ~4 times slower than ECP family) so any more complex design like soft core can reach ~30MHz max. I checked Intel site and some product briefs for both families but couldn't spot any difference. Also I could not find datasheets with exact timings. So that's why I am confused why there are two similar families from same manufacturer with two almost identical boards each having different FPGA family.