ARM taken over by Japan's SoftBank - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:22:54 am
content: Just read that ARM will be probably taken over by the japanese softbank ( never heard of them myself) for 32 billion $!Curious what that will mean for the future, hopefully cheap Keil development licenses for non commercial developmenthttp://www.reuters.com/article/us-arm-holdings-m-a-softbank-group-idUSKCN0ZY03B

author: batteksystem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:38:45 am
content: Softbank is basically an IT company, not related to embedded development. I am not really sure what they are after and how they could benefit from such a deal.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:43:55 am
content: Well - my wife works for SoftBankand they have a plan. Masa-San (The CEO/founder/owner) is the Japanese version of Bill Gates - just more down to earth.He actually has an engineering background and is very smart and down to earth. I think he feels best with his sleeves rolled up ready to solve problems.SoftBank is a huge Japanese owned company - that among others owns SoftBank Mobile in Japan, Sprint in the US, 28% of Alibaba, Yahoo Japan (very profitable) and a heck of a lot of other companies. They also own the company behind Pepper the robot that has been a lot in the press. Masa-San negotiated exclusivity on iPhone from Apple for the first ? 5 years for Japan.Masa-San has developed the hardware/ideas that is currently restructuring the network at Sprint - and Mr. Masa-San often goes out and does implementations and debugging with the engineers from Sprint. Sprint has a bad rep - but is slowly getting each " state " under control with the new investments. According to Forbes - SoftBank is currently #69th on Forbes Global 2000 list.

author: RogerRowland
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 07:17:07 am
content: Well, ARM is just 5 minutes down the road from where I currently work, and they suggest that if the shareholders agree to the takeover that the UK workforce will be doubled. Maybe I have one last career change left in me .... hmmmm ....

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 07:53:46 am
content: Well crap.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 09:12:50 am
content: Quote from: RogerRowland on July 18, 2016, 07:17:07 amWell.. Explosive growth has some dangers: it attracts a swarm of shitty managers of all sorts, then they start bring in their friends and multiply like germs. Large UK companies seem to be quite affected by this plague. At least in my experience with Nortel/Symbian/Nokia

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 09:50:09 am
content: Two reasons1) "Internet of Things"2) pile of cash and fall in sterling makes UK companies cheaperBoth sound very bad reasons for a takeover, and it's a bad fit. A mobile phone operator doesn't need to get involved in designing chips.There is likely to be a counter-offer. Either way, could be a rocky road for ARM.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:01:16 am
content: Quote from: RogerRowland on July 18, 2016, 07:17:07 amBy all accounts, it's not a great place to work. I have a few friends that work there, but the work is mundane and fairly restrictive unless you get into sales and support.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:08:09 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 18, 2016, 05:43:55 amThis makes me smileThe last-but-one Nokia CEO (don't remember his name) also had an engineering background (RF AFAIK) which didn't stop him from running the company into the ground.It would be a bit pity to see if a pattern "buy a company -> mess with it -> run it down -> sell to microsoft or whoever" applies to ARM as well.

author: lilos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:00:41 am
content: A free ISA is coming from RISC-V! Why someone will pay for arm licence ? This make Arm price cheap.I think that the reason they sell.

author: RogerRowland
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:07:42 am
content: Quote from: SteveyG on July 18, 2016, 10:01:16 amYes, I have friends and ex-colleagues there too, I'll take some soundings before making any waves ..... not a time to jump out of a frying pan, I guess, but worthwhile keeping eyes and ears open ...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:10:59 am
content: Quote from: DmitryL on July 18, 2016, 10:08:09 amWho, Elop? He worked for Microsoft, went to Nokia, ran them into the ground until their phone division got bought by Microsoft, and got a bonus for it. I don't think it was anything to do with his engineering background!

author: RogerRowland
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:13:38 am
content: Quote from: DmitryL on July 18, 2016, 10:08:09 amDidn't MS just sell Nokia to Foxconn recently, or was that only part of it? ... I suppose every sale makes money forsomebody...

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:26:00 am
content: the dumbphone division, yes.that's sad. at home we always keep a couple of those around, i still have a nokia 2600 from 2008 in the emergency drawer (along with 3330 and such) though i had to trash a couple others from 2014

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:26:04 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 18, 2016, 11:10:59 amI wrote "last-but-one". Olli-Pekka or whoever his name was. By elop taking over, Nokia was already in a good rotten shape. It still wasn't visible from outside though.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:27:12 am
content: Quote from: DmitryL on July 18, 2016, 11:26:04 amThey've had two since Elop.. Kallasvuo was a bloody lawyer.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:33:35 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 18, 2016, 11:10:59 amNokia was already down to the drain at the time when he came. IMO his job was takeover of Nokia mobile business and everyone in business knew it. Those idiots made multiple low end models with exactly the same PCBs with slightly different parts populated depending on model. And insisted on crappy Symbian, when all others were into high end smartphones.Worked at warranty repair of Nokia phones at that time. We needed to keep all that stock of parts for all that shitload of slightly different models. Nokia should have thought they will win the market by spamming it with quantity of models.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:35:04 am
content: Quote from: DmitryL on July 18, 2016, 11:26:04 amOlli-Pekka Kallasvuo. He's a lawyer by education, not an engineer.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:39:58 am
content: Quote from: lilos on July 18, 2016, 11:00:41 amRISC-V is still at the stage of an academic research project, while ARM have a proven product with a huge ecosystem behind it. Maybe RISC-V will eventually become a serious contender, but it will take some time.

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 12:20:35 pm
content: It's a bit off topic yet associated imo , not starting a Brexit argument either so control yourselves .BUT , this deal was in planning ages ago probably , and lately i have noticed quite a few "other" deals still going ahead and being announced , Boots (chemist company) going ahead in Korea still and a few others over the last few days i have seen , not that I'm deliberately looking about , so Brexit is still palatable it seems in the business system it appears?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 12:39:57 pm
content: IMHO Nokia is a story apart. The way I see it the core of Nokia is an investment firm which invests in whatever they see a market in and leave when no more profit can be made. They are a clever bunch by letting Microsoft pay for cleaning up after them and now they just reboot a new mobile phone company where they don't have all the legacy support or have to do massive lay-offs. And if that doesn't work they can always go back to making rubber boots.

author: lilos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 12:57:04 pm
content: Quote from: andersm on July 18, 2016, 11:39:58 amhttps://www.sifive.com/They are ready for use cores one big U500 and one for micro E500.Freedom U500 PlatformU5 Coreplex at 1.6GHz+RV64GC ArchitectureMulticore, Cache Coherency SupportHigh Speed Peripherals: PCIe 3.0, USB3.0, GbE, DDR3/4TSMC 28nmFreedom E300 PlatformE3 CoreplexRV32IMC/RV32EMC ArchitectureOn chip Flash, OTP, SRAMTSMC 180nmHere is dev kits Full FPGA !https://dev.sifive.com/dev-kits/Risc-V are perfect for IOT.@blueskull we don`t need core i5 for iot! and i`m not against big company just love university projects like risc-v costhey give you freedom to learn and not stop you by hiding thinks.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 01:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: lilos on July 18, 2016, 12:57:04 pmI've seen the announcements, but I don't remember reading that they'd have any customers making silicon yet.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 01:28:29 pm
content: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822806

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 01:45:04 pm
content: Duplicate.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/arm-bought-for-32-billion-$-by-japanese-softbank/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 02:41:04 pm
content: Quote from: lilos on July 18, 2016, 12:57:04 pmTell me that when Digikey have ten thousand in stock.People will buy ARM because it's proven, has huge support in software, and a wide variety of hardware vendors. Anyone wanting to butt in on their market now will, maybe, be relevant in 10 years.. if they have silicon right now.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 03:57:37 pm
content: HiOne of the strengths of ARM *was* that it had no real connections to anybody else. If you decided to use their IP there was no decision "do we support a competitor" involved. That was true at the chip fab level and at the end user level. While SoftBank may be a great parent for ARM (only time will tell), it does lump them in with a bunch of other tech holdings. It's not quite like Qualcomm or IBM buying them, but there is a little of the same flavor.Bob

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 04:18:01 pm
content: As a long time armh investor, I'm both happy with the offer and wishing that it doesnt fo through with Softbank.Im happy that people are realizing armhs potential. And a 40 percent premium is nice to have, especially when my cost basis is practically zero.On the flip side, I hope other buyers will come along. Armh has a very scaleable product, in iot, phone, tablet, servers, and distributed computing, I am surprised that no Chinese buyer has emerged before Softbank.With China being a leader in those category, and it's potential to deploy armh products in cars (thus creating a credible competitor to renasas), the mkt is endless.Not to mention the strategic risk of letting the Japanese to have both arm and renansas.With that, I think the number Softbank put on armh grossly undervalued the firm.I would easily put a 50bn figure on that, and if they can get into even just the domestic Chinese car mkt, easily a 100bn company.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 04:41:35 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on July 18, 2016, 10:08:09 amMasa-San is the owner/founderandCEO. And he is very smart. He almost went bankrupt with SoftBank during one of the market bounces - but managed to get through the fire - and rebuild SoftBank. SoftBank used to own COMDEX Exhibitions in the US where I met him (and sold it before COMDEX collapsed) He is very hands on with the companies he invests in and works very hard. He started in 1981 and has run the company since then. So he is not the overnight hired CEO in temporary residence.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:13:48 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 18, 2016, 04:41:35 pmOk. I will tell my friends from ARM that they are in a good hands...

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:22:10 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 18, 2016, 04:41:35 pmuuhhhhh

author: PChi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:47:58 pm
content: I'm not convinced that the numbers stack up. To cover 32 billion requires selling a hell of a lot of licences at a few cents each.

author: josem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 07:19:26 pm
content: Quote from: PChi on July 18, 2016, 05:47:58 pmDoesn't sound too hard:"By 2017 ARM expects its customers to be shipping roughly 41 billion chips that use ARM IP every year."http://www.anandtech.com/show/7112/the-arm-diaries-part-1-how-arms-business-model-works/

author: photon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 07:46:39 pm
content: That kind of money currupts. They made an offer ARM couldn't refuse. It will be interesting to see where ARM is in 10 years.http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1330147

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 08:15:16 pm
content: arm should have given the finger ...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:04:57 pm
content: http://www.cringely.com/2016/07/18/softbank-paying-32-billion-arm-holdings/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:05:22 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 18, 2016, 08:15:16 pmThey did, until the number went up to $32B

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:06:12 pm
content: Quote from: PChi on July 18, 2016, 05:47:58 pmHe'll change the way they do business.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:09:20 pm
content: https://www.hottopics.ht/stories/how-to/masayoshi-son-ceo-lost-70bn-in-day-before-conquering-world/

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 10:13:42 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 18, 2016, 10:05:22 pmAfter Brexit crashed the pound that $32bn made much more sense.If all the companies that could have bought ARM, it's ended up being in the hands of a conglomerate.32bn looks like a big number until you compare it to Facebook, Google and others of similar ilk.Could well end up in a bidding war.Sucks that this is our last big tech company losing its independence.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 11:13:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 18, 2016, 10:06:12 pmFew factors here. Timing is right because of Brexit effect of the currencies. And it is not about ARM, it is about phone OS: Android and ApplePhoneOS. It is about the future of most computing which is the mobile computing, and it is about the future of most online activities. The market for smart phones for the rest of the world still has a lot of rooms to grow. People keep changing phone and want to keep changing phone.

author: photon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 02:08:12 am
content: Masayoshi Son seems to have a pair.

author: kalleboo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 03:52:52 am
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on July 18, 2016, 10:13:42 pmAnd remember not only did the Sterling drop, the Yen shot up as well (since it's the safe-haven currency in Asia in times of turbulence, to Abe's chagrin)edit: Although Brexit boosted the share price of ARM making it more expensive than pre-Brexit, even in Yen termshttps://twitter.com/jamestitcomb/status/754966707769315333

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 04:44:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 18, 2016, 10:05:22 pmno they did not - there was one number presented and it has not changed. And I do not think ARM will change their business model apart from expanding their product offering. I think SoftBank will request less dividends than ARM has paid out - so the ARM business can grow. And deal did not have anything to do with Brexit. Planning started way before Brexit.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 06:56:47 am
content: Hmm ... nice to know my pocket grows tad thicker, reference ->My ARMH

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 08:06:29 am
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on July 18, 2016, 10:13:42 pmBeing a public traded company is absolutely not independenceI think being part of SoftBank is a lot more independent than working with 1000's of shareholders and institutional investors constant pressure for higher margins and dividends.So ARM lost their independence when they went public.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 09:36:13 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 19, 2016, 06:56:47 amNow show the shares you bought which didn't perform! You always see people bragging about their top stocks but how about the losses?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 09:45:28 am
content: I sold £10k of ARM shares a few months ago. I made a reasonable amount at the time, so not complaining.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 10:25:55 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 19, 2016, 09:36:13 amWhere is the fun in "bragging" then ?C'mon nctnico, you're becoming grumpier.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 11:49:17 am
content: How do they make their money - through ip licensing?Wouldn't Chinese fabricators would be able to skirt around a lot that?

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 03:11:33 pm
content: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/sf2plus-dev-kit/arrow-development-tools

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 11:59:17 pm
content: Quote from: julian1 on July 22, 2016, 11:49:17 amEven if they did, they'd never be able to sell a chip like that. They'd be hit with import restrictions the moment they tried, and would likely face legal action inside the country as well.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 06:50:08 am
content: QuoteWell, that would be my biggest worry. In recent years, ARM has done a lot of development at the low end of the market: CM3, CM0, CM0+, CM4. It would be bad if that all stopped and they only did development on Phone-class (and higher) chips...(I'm also an "investor." This purchase looks to cheat me out of my first "ten-banger" (currently up 914% since 2006.)As for less successful investments, my ST stock is down over 15% in the last year, and Cree isn't doing so well. My MCHP is up about 100%, but that's somewhat less than a NASDAQ index fund would have been over the same period.)

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 05:05:29 am
content: Be ready for latter October all your stocks will have a Hugh devaluation, at least buy some sox puts to protect yourself

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 05:00:03 am
content: QuoteWhy October?I'm certainly not looking forward to November :-(