FCC for low budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: blueskull
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 12:00:35 am
content: I have a design which uses a fully custom made intentional radiator (ESP32-PICO-D4 based). I want to sell it in the US and EU. Is there a way I can sell a few (say, 20) units to make initial funds to do a proper FCC certification? I know for intentional radiators (FCC 15C), a certification can be $10k+, and that's for FCC alone, then it comes VCCI/CE/etc.From FCC part 2K, it seems if I manufacture and ship the items from China (anywhere not in US), and the buyer is an individual buying for him/herself with no intention to resell it, my buyer can import my device without an FCC certificate, is that correct?The following passage quoted from CFR47.2K.2.1204.7.iii, import rules, exemptions section:QuoteAlso, is there such a rule also for CE and other jurisdictions? I know I can export anything from China to EU without getting into trouble as long as I follow Chinese export control rules because EU laws say the importer is responsible for compliance. However, due to the niche, expensive and flagship nature of the product, I want to make sure my customer is 100% liability free and happy.Any ideas on how can this be done?

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 12:08:54 am
content: I am not going to pretend I have any expertise in this area, but I do recall hearing that FCC certification needs to happen if you intend it to be a fully functioning product. Would it be possible to arrange the first units such that they are a subassembly rather than a full product where you expect the user to "complete" the product and pushing the responsibility to them?This is where I am getting this info from:https://www.emcfastpass.com/fcc-rules-kits-subassemblies/Am interested in learning more about this process and your project, but that is the extent of my knowledge...

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 12:29:46 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 04, 2017, 12:20:46 amThanks for the information. Didn't intend for you to play word games, but only package the "meat" of your project as a subassembly. Doesn't sound like it will for your market, and I assumed your project had a much lower retail price. Definitely negates any advice I gave... Wish you luck because you are way out of my depth!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 05:09:20 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 04, 2017, 03:06:38 amThat's very interesting. I'm looking into doing something similar myself, but get hung up on the certification side of things. The numbers involved are so terribly big if you don't have a huge war chest or massive production numbers to spread the investment over.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 08:23:17 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 04, 2017, 12:00:35 amUnfortunately there's no 'low volume' exemption, if your customers are importing your products into the EU then they must be CE marked. You're quite right that the customer (being the importer in this case) is legally responsible, but is it, of course, up to you to actually make your product legal to import.CE covers safety requirements as well, so you'll need to declare conformity in respect of the LVD if your product is mains powered. The rules require you to maintain a technical file demonstrating your basis for a claim of compliance, so you may well need to have a safety test carried out too.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 10:09:33 am
content: If and only if you are selling such low quantity like 20/year, here is my work around.No FCC forms or certifications. When I sell, my devices, still have a serial number, but, I make sure of the following and declare the following:1. My device is powered by a fully certified enclosed power supply, with certified plugs, If I wired them within a chassis, I verify that that wiring would meet certification if were ever to come to that.2. On the shipping product and customs declaration, I declare that the contents is a)'Electronics audio/video/whatever equipment is a sample for evaluation purposes only. Not for resale. No commercial value.'b) then I still properly state the monetary value of the goods for shipping insurance purposes.Note that I successfully sold my sample video scalers internationally across the US/Canadian/EU without issue for 3 years using Fedex and UPS. Note that Fedex and UPS usually handled customs and import fees internally at request of the receiving party, though some clients already had their own agents.3. If something now goes wrong with one of your devices and you hurt someone, EG: some RFI coming out of your device interferes with an emergency health alarm medic bracelet being needed at the time, or your device destroys some property by causing a fire, you are personally liable.Note that if you are 'not' breaking any FCC emission rules but don't have approval, you haven't done anything wrong, you just cannot say you are FCC approved. If you will be selling to major retail outlets or in quantity, you will need FCC approval as it will be mandatory.I guess you could say you comply with all FCC RF EMI regulations, but you are not FCC approved. But, I wouldn't temp fate in trying to play this game...

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 12:35:05 pm
content: I seem to remember one of the low end prosumer audio gear vendors being hit with a massive fine, for not having the correct documentation, so of is NOT just a case of complying with the FCCs technical standards, but also getting the labelling correct.Regards, Dan.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 04:07:18 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on December 04, 2017, 12:35:05 pmCorrect, you cannot put any of the 'FCC' initials or the full name on your product or in the documentation if you do not have approval and an ID number. This gets you in more trouble than you think.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 06:45:24 pm
content: I think it was something more subtle then that, at least in some of the cases.https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-13A1.pdfhttps://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-13-706A1.pdfThe second one was a company better known as ElectroHarmonix who are basically a musical instrument gear manufacturer, so it happens to the small players as well.Regards, Dan.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 07:08:29 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on December 04, 2017, 06:45:24 pmElectroHarmonix has a full web site and sells hundreds of multiple items a year and are being sold to music stores for resale. blueskull is talking about 2 items a month over multiple countries. So maybe something like 1 every other month in the US.If blueskull approaches 20 devices/month minimum ''sustained'', and expecting to grow, yes, it's time to look at proper approval.Also read your other .pdf, the problem was that the defendants had mislabeled different newer untested models of their hardware with Class B approval when that newer model wasn't actually put through the approval process. I never told blueskull to write in his manual or on his device that it had Class B approval when it doesn't.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 10:22:42 pm
content: The other trap to watch with Japan is the certification of the power supply brick, PSE IIRC is the body in question.Regards, Dan.

author: amitchell
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 11:38:16 pm
content: I have had the best luck with the Anker USB-C 30Whttps://www.anker.com/products/variant/PowerPort-Speed-1-USB-C-Port-/A2014112The Ugreen equivalent showed a lot more noise during comparison. I was a bit suspicious of the Ugreens certs.Phihong has a few new units coming out in the next few months. Mouser has them listed as out of stock at the moment and needs I think 8 weeks to fulfill an order last I checked.Would you mind linking me the Chinese test house? I am looking for a more affordable route myself.Quote