USB solder paste and fluids dispenser for SMT PCB prototyping and DIY boards. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 06:35:57 pm
content: Hi everyone,Check this USB powered solder paste and fluids dispenser.IMHO, it's a handy tool for SMT PCB prototyping and developing.What do you think ?NEW VIDEO

author: dmmt40
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 07:49:38 pm
content: Hey, great to see another dispenser on the market! (I'm assuming this is your design). Although why go the Kickstarter route? That seems like a huge headache for something that is rather niche.I've also designed a dispenser and I'm selling already on Tindie:https://www.tindie.com/products/DanM/dm-dispenser-for-solder-pastes-and-adhesives/IMO this is a great platform to get started.I did think about Kickstarter at one point but also having a few customers first to give you feedback and everything is a good idea, you can only do kickstarter (properly) once so that's why I considered it a bit risky from my point of view.Anyway I hope you reach your goal because the more people know the benefits of solder dispensers, the better for everyone!

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 08:41:23 pm
content: Hi,I've check your dispenser.That's a great work man !I see, that you also using nordson syringes/pistonsas they are IMHO the best on market.I just discovered Tindie few moth ago. How good is it ?"the more people know the benefits of solder dispensers, the better for everyone"I absolutely agree with you. PCB makers need such compact and air-free solder paste dispensers.It's a real saver, when you make PCB prototypes.Best regards

author: dmmt40
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 09:59:33 pm
content: QuoteIndeed, there are some similar designs out there but the genuine ones are super high quality and worth every penny. Only downside is that they’re difficult to get (at least where I live) it’s not like you can go on ebay and buy just 2 or 3 with free shipping!QuoteTindie is great because people there are looking exactly for this kind of stuff, so I reckon you’re more likely to sell than in other places. Unless of course if the product is already well known, in which case you’d be better off setting up your own website and store. At least for me it’s perfect.But yeah, good luck with your project!Dan

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:59:48 pm
content: Why to make a paste/glue dispenser USB powered?I am certainly not going to have a laptop or a PC anywhere close where I am dispensing paste or glue (= messy stuff) nor is it something I would want to take portable to need laptop or battery pack to power it because mains isn't available (do you lug your USB-powered reflow oven/hotplate with you too?).Having to fiddle with a micro USB plug and some sort of phone charger is not going to be fun. The USB plug sticking out like that is begging for getting pulled out when the cable snags on something while you are working. That will get pretty damn annoying real fast, especially as the plug wears out and becomes loose.Why not attach the power cable permanently to the dispenser? You can still have a USB A plug at the other end if you really need USB. A better solution would be a separate connector on the device for USB and use a fixed cable with a barrel jack or some other connector for power, with a power brick. That would also make sure there is actually enough current to power the thing.Your KS page says that it needs ">0.5A" USB charger - why? How much current does this actually need? If it needs more than 500mA, most laptops will not be able to power it and you are not compliant with the USB spec - some hubs and computers will disable the port such device is connected to because of the over-current protection tripping. Or you could fry a poorly designed device by overloading it.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 12:12:00 pm
content: Hi Janoc,"I am certainly not going to have a laptop or a PC anywhere "Micro USB connector doesn't mean that you have to plug it into PC or Laptop, even if it's still possible.You also can power dispenser from usb charger or battery pack like those:https://www.google.fr/search?q=usb+battery+pack&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT69XJ-qTNAhUpCsAKHcwIClAQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=858They usually can supply 1000-2000mA."Why not attach the power cable permanently to the dispenser? "Well, as we haven't yet launched mass production, permanently fixed power cable or 2.1mm power jack are two of possible solution that we will probably make on final product."Your KS page says that it needs ">0.5A" USB charger - why?"Because I-EXTRUDER drains between 320-430mA .While PC and laptops can deliver up to 0.5A per USB plug, while there are some USB chargers that provides lees that 0.5A (ex. 350mA)

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 06:12:22 pm
content: If you already have compressed air in your workshop, I can definitely recommend the EFD/Nordson dispensers. I have the 900 myself, which I bought for cheap on eBay, and it is a formidable piece of equipment. I also have their 10VAC vacuum pen system, which is equally well made. Remember that these machines are made to be used on an assembly line where every minute of downtime can translate into significant losses. While this extreme reliability matters little to me, it does make for equipment that is a pleasure to use, and which should last a lifetime. I'd also add that a pedal operated dispenser and vacuum pick-up is much preferable to anything with a finger switch - operating a switch with your fingerwillcause the nozzle to move, no matter how careful you are.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 08:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: mahouny on June 13, 2016, 12:12:00 pmYes, and I wrote as much. The question is why would you want to do that? What is the use case where you would need to dispense solder paste while using a power bank instead of mains? Paste means you are going to do reflow and I cannot imagine battery powered oven or hot plate. Even hot air station would be pushing it.Battery would make sense if it was built-in into the tool itself, making it wireless. But it is bulky enough already and making it even more top-heavy would likely make it difficult to use.Quote from: mahouny on June 13, 2016, 12:12:00 pmI would strongly recommend doing that - unless you need the USB for fw updates, it is a very poor solution for a power plug, especially for a device you are moving around while in use (unlike phone charging where the phone is normally sitting on the table during that). If you need USB for programming reasons, you can keep the connector, just don't use it for the power cable.Quote from: mahouny on June 13, 2016, 12:12:00 pmHmm, I have to yet see a poor charger like that (not counting cheap and crappy eBay specials) but alright, makes sense. You may want to specify the current draw on the KS page, though. You specify the energy requirement in Wh, which is interesting if someone is planning to use it from a battery (even though I don't know why someone would want to do that).Knowing the current draw is always important to judge whether or not is it safe to connect the device to some USB port, especially if it doesn't handle the USB power negotiation properly (the spec allows only 100mA draw at enumeration and more up to 500mA only when correctly negotiated with the host/hub). Probably not an issue if you use a power bank, but at some point there will certainly be someone who will connect it to an el cheapo bus powered hub where they have other things connected already and something will smoke. That's another disadvantage of using USB connectors for power - people *will* plug it into things you didn't anticipate.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 08:57:29 pm
content: Quote from: mahouny on June 10, 2016, 06:35:57 pmDoes not seem to work well at all on the video. Fails to dispense equal amount, also there is way too much paste. Pads will certainly short together during the reflow.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 05:07:33 pm
content: Does not seem to work well at all on the video. Fails to dispense equal amount...Thank you for your opinion.On all videos dispenser in "Manual" dispensing mode (not in automatic "Dots" mode) because of different pads sizes.One cannot expect the exact amount of solder paste being extruded in manual mode, because, as you may see, in manual mode, solder paste is dispensed as long as "Forward" button is pressed.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 05:21:13 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 13, 2016, 08:40:23 pm

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 07:12:29 pm
content: Quote from: mahouny on June 21, 2016, 05:21:13 pmSorry, I am still not really buying that. If you need to dispense any of those, you are pretty much always near a workshop - where mains would be available. And if it is for a job site (field installation of something somewhere), then I am probably not going to take a dinky little dispenser with a USB cord and powerbank to be constantly in the way. And certainly not one that forces me to prefill a syringe (especially something like glue could be "fun") but a proper industrial one instead that is actually designed to work with standard packages of whatever I am dispensing (caulk or greases don't tend to come in the same syringes as solder paste!). E.g. one of these:http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2016, 03:40:33 am
content: QuoteAre you serious ?Good luck with hand dispensers...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2016, 09:17:08 am
content: Quote from: mahouny on June 24, 2016, 03:40:33 amYes, I am serious - what is wrong with this one, for example?http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers/autotube-dispenserAnd it works with collapsible tubes instead of syringes, which is more common packaging type for things like glues.This one is also just fine when you are dispensing fluids:http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers/ad93It certainly wouldn't work for a solder paste (too high viscosity), but it is not meant for that.I think you are suffering a bit of "I have a hammer so everything is nail now" syndrome. Unless you actually demonstrate (not only claim) that your product is superior for the intended use than any of these, you don't have much of an argument.Your Kickstarter campaign isn't exactly going gangbusters neither and that is for the use as a solder paste dispenser where I believe it actually could be kinda useful. Even though good luck trying to do a large board with hundreds of pads by hand (and your device doesn't seem to be directly usable with a CNC or PnP machine, as presented) - after trying to do one or two such boards people tend to very quickly change to stencils.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2016, 01:31:07 pm
content: QuoteOK, I think I have understood what you mean, and according to your idea, the following dispenser is probably the best for the precise application of fluids.Hey, look ! There is no USB connector, no batteries required and it is compatible with very common cartridges...Of course, why on earth would anyone use electronic dispenser if they can jut purchase such great tool.Every developers should immediately stop to develop their products and use the existing products !I love the proverb: "the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on"...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2016, 08:23:40 pm
content: You have obviously not bothered to actually check what is that dispenser for (filling precise doses into tubes) and what it can do (adjustable shot size so that you can control the dispensed volume reproducibly), but you are comparing it to a handyman's caulk gun alreadyBest of luck to your project, mate.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2016, 05:55:09 pm
content: Thank you for your wishes, however:Quote from: janoc on June 24, 2016, 08:23:40 pmOh, really ?First, I thought that you simply joking, but now I see that you just trolling.This is what is written in the user manual of the dispenser that you have suggested:Wow, that's indeed is a very precise dosage of gluesby 1 CC / 1ML shotsThat should be perfect for DYI projects, crafts and products assembly...So yes, I do believe that handyman's caulk gun is better.Taking in to account the above, actually it seems that it's you, who haven't bothered at all, to check the specs.I think, that before giving such nonsense advices and statements, you should take your time to check it first and of course compare comparable things. ("il faut comparer le comparable")Because comparing the 1CC-5CC shots of FISNAR manual dispenser with adjustable from less that 1mm to any size, shots of I_EXTRUDER dispenser, it's simplystupidnonsense.Unfortunately, I don't have a food for trolls anymore, so I will not respond to your further comments."the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on"...

author: dmmt40
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2016, 07:58:07 pm
content: mmm it's been interesting to follow this, so I thought I’d add my opinion to the conversation and since I have almost 3 years of experience doing real work with adhesives and dispensers I’m a bit more qualified than janoc I thinkThose dispensers he mentioned are for INDUSTRIAL use, that’s an entirely different market and price point than the dispenser in this thread therefore it’s not fair to compare them. One is designed for hobbyists doing projects on the weekends and the other for continuous use in (relatively) high volume applications or to be used in the field. So apples and oranges really.If we look at prices, the (now infamous) Fisnar hand tool retails close to $200 and the other system mentioned:QuoteThat one goes for $1300!!!http://www.ellsworth.com/products/dispensing-equipment-supplies/dispensing-systems-fluid/dispenser-controller/fisnar-dc200-digital-dispenser-100-240-v/http://www.ellsworth.com/products/dispensing-equipment-supplies/dispensing-systems-fluid/dispenser-controller/fisnar-atd200c-autotube-dispenser-for-8-oz-200-g-tube/And good luck trying to get your hands on one of those, unless you live in the US or you’re a company most distributors won’t sell it to you directly.Now, if you’re talking about more precise dispensing then it actually gets cheaper because of the chinese pneumatic dispensers on the market; but you still need a compressor and some people don’t want noisy equipment or don’t have the luxury of space/money to buy the whole system.It all started I think because mahouny stated that his dispenser could be used with a battery pack and thus be portable. Well of course, that’s true of any USB powered device!but in all fairness he’s in his right to use it as a selling point.In the end it’s the customers who will decide whether or not that’s useful for them, so really I don’t see what's the big deal to begin with.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2016, 10:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: dmmt40 on June 25, 2016, 07:58:07 pmIt's exciting that there seem to be a number of different paste dispensers aimed at the hobbyist market. Two on tindie (Mike Mencinger 's v5 dispenser, Dan M's DM Dispenser) plus the subject of this thread. Lots of choices, and I don't think we hobbyists have ever complained about having too many tool choices. I can see advantages and disadvantages to each of them.Right now, I have a cheap ebay air-operated dispenser, but it's kind of a beast to drag out and requires access to shop air. I plumbed shop air into my previous workshop, but it's not something I want to bother with in my current workshop.These stepper operated dispensers seem like a great idea. It's just a matter of researching and picking the right one. USB powered/portability isn't something that I care about, but it's not something that would detract from my using the device.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 01:02:54 am
content: I just added to my first post, a new video of solder paste application on small 40x23mm Arduino compatible development board prototype.

author: cereyanli
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 01:46:40 pm
content: @mahounyAre you planning sell it on tindie or some other platform if kickstarter does not reach the goal ?

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 11:59:52 am
content: Quote from: cereyanli on July 14, 2016, 01:46:40 pmHi,kickstarter campaign will be relaunched in September, after vacations.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 11:28:38 am
content: I use hand dispenser for smd solder past, and no problem at all, This electronic device with only a stepper motor does not have any advantage against a hand dispense, only disadvantagesElectronic dispenser without auger pump, simple put any amount of fluid they want no control at all

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 03:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on August 03, 2016, 11:28:38 am

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 02:28:09 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on August 03, 2016, 06:42:22 pmOk, Thanks for the video and now I know what an auger pump is. Here in America it is called a screw pump and used to pump heavy viscosity fluids that do not require large or minimal pressure as a force to move these types of fluids. My friend with the ranch and farm land called me back and explained he uses this concept on his ranch to pump feces to a holding pond.I still do not see an advantage to this as you are still supplying external pressure as force to a cylinder that supplies glue, flux, etc, to a tube that houses a helical screw to disperse these materials. Still using the same pressurized force only using the helical screw as a path for the glue, flux, etc. You could have just used a straight tube. I do not see the helical screw contributing anything to the process.I not trying to discredit your design but I am rather curious as to its theoretical operation and design. Sorry, it's the engineer in me.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 12:21:09 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on August 03, 2016, 11:28:38 amFor me it's looks like you either working for Fisnar... or don't know what you are talking about...Otherwise, I cannot understand how do you use that volumetric dispenser which is made to dispense (user manual quote) "pre-selectable dosage from 1 to 5 cc..." for solder paste dispensing.Solder paste should be applied by very very small amounts, NOT by 1CC !!!"stepper motor does not have any advantage against a hand dispense, only disadvantages"And what are so called "disadvantages" of stepper motors ?Probably precision, or low current consumption, or low weight, or great current consumption/torque ratio, or silent operationI don't see any disadvantages, but only advantages!"Electronic dispenser without auger pump, simple put any amount of fluid they want no control at all"I think you have missed something...Kindly check that video:https://youtu.be/hJer4Zql6w0Components size : 0603, 0608...Dispensing mode: "Manual"If you can do better or even close to it, with your huge Fisnar hand dispenser, I invite you to make your own video and show it to community.I believe, we all would love to see how fast and precise you can dispense solder paste with manual dispenser.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 02:56:43 pm
content: Quote from: mahouny on August 18, 2016, 12:21:09 pmSeriously, Do not allow this person to have control over you. He wants reaction and drama and is contributing nothing to the topic. Except getting people up in arms over his idea of a dispenser. Gee, just waiting for the next person to post "Well I use a bicycle pump with a needle on the end and that has advantages over all and any possible solution". Just not worth your time and effort to answer posts like those.If the poster is happy with his/her solution and it is working - Then just let it be.I purchased the dispenser from dmmt40 (1st gen) and very happy with it. I have used it a lot and gets passed around at school like a hooker. That dispenser too were observations from people that did not like the usb connector and preferred wall mart type power connector. Even then suggestions were that usb would not provide enough volts. That it should go up even higher 12, 24, 48 volts who knows. Although dmmt40's design being built around usb power curve. Moral of the story - no matter what you build, use, design, etc. For some it will not be good enough so they will stir the pot and start the drama.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 03:49:06 pm
content: QuoteOh, don't worry, he cannot get any control...QuoteThanx m8, you've made my day !This is this is what I was thinking about, after reading his ridiculous statement about the disadvantages of stepper motors compared to hand dispensers.QuoteI can only agree with you

author: cereyanli
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 11:05:33 am
content: @mahouny any news for new campaign ?

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 06:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: cereyanli on August 29, 2016, 11:05:33 amThe campaign will be relaunched in mid-September.If you want receive the news you can subscribe to the mailing-list (no spam guaranteed) just send a mail to: kickstarter (AT) i-extruder.comRegards

author: cereyanli
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 09:20:18 am
content: @mahouny any progress so far ?

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 01:50:51 pm
content: @cereyanli"any progress so far ?"YesWe have added : 2.5mm 4 contacts audio jack socket for the external trigger (For example: foot pedal or CNC)And replaced the micro USB by 2.5 x 0.7mm power jack socket (we will provide the USB to 2.5mm jack + 110/240V power adapter ) so you can still connect the dispenser to any +400mA USB port (PC, Notebook, external USB charger or battery pack..)Unfortunately our new PCBs were delayed by manufacturer, so probably will relaunch the campaign at the end of SeptemberSorry for the delay.Regards

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2016, 02:24:28 pm
content: Hi ,here is just a quick 3D rendering showing how will look the external trigger and power jack sockets.External trigger socket is 4 positions jack and will be used as trigger / power supply port. (+5V OUT, Gnd, Trigger, +5V-9V IN)It will be possible to supply power to I-Extruder, in two ways:1. Via "Power supply" jack from USB power source.2. From, for example, CNC machine via 2.5mm "trigger" jack socket.Also you will be able to supply +5V to external semi-automatic triggers like IR or proximity switches, via "trigger" cable from I-EXTRUDER.herbergeur d image

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 02:58:56 pm
content: Our new Kickstarter campaign is LIVE ! (17 October 2016)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2129383335/i-extruder-smart-solder-paste-and-fluids-dispenserBe sure to promptly get your "SUPER EARLY BIRD" reward ! (limited quantity)I-EXTRUDER is smart Air-Free solder paste and fluids dispenser with "Pull Back" feature, and can be used for : PCB assembly and prototyping, DIY projects, crafts, professional or industrial products assembly.It is very compact, nearly silent, light weight (110gr) and combines the precision of linear stepper motor drive technology, the intelligence of microprocessor control, and the flexibility and cost-effectiveness of 10ml plastic barrel reservoirs.I-EXTRUDER could be used for the application of: solder paste, compounds, retainers, silicons, adhesives, epoxies, sealants, greases, lubricants...Also, with NEW "Pick&Place" feature, I-EXTRUDER can be used as manual and almost completely silent Pick and Place tool.I-EXTRUDER is fitted with the External Trigger jack socket and can be triggered by : foot pedal switch, IR or Inductive proximity sensor, or +3.3V or +5V impulses from CNC machine.I-EXTRUDER consumes only 1.6 kWh/year (2h of use per day x 366 days), and could be powered from any 5V USB source (+0.5A): PC, laptop, USB power adapter, portable USB charger (battery pack).

author: dmmt40
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 04:14:06 pm
content: QuotePick and place? mmm that’s sounds very familiar…https://dmdispenser.wordpress.com/advanced/pick-up-mode/It’s also on myDM dispenserwhich has been on sale for the past four months.Anyway I guess I’m flattered that it served as an inspiration, good luck.

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 05:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: dmmt40 on October 17, 2016, 04:14:06 pm

author: dmmt40
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm
content: QuoteHa I knew it! That was too much of a coincidence.So how does it work with the smaller 10cc syringe? In my case I’ve found that there’s a bit of a learning curve, but with practice the same results and speed can be achieved as with a real vacuum powered machine. In fact that’s how I’ve assembled the 30+ dispensers that I’ve sold so far.This feature also makes the dispenser useful for people who already use stencils on their boards and would otherwise not bother getting one.QuoteYeah, it really is a no brainer if you regularly make one-off prototypes, especially for people who are space limited and can’t have compressors and hoses in their workspace. So far everyone has been very satisfied with my dispenser so I assume you’ll get happy customers too (eventually)

author: mahouny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 06:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: dmmt40 on October 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm