Tesla Cybertruck - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:22:54 am
content: This has to be an epic product design and marketing fail?Who's going to buy this thing?Certainly not any practical tradie who's carrying stuff.Here is why it has to have the silly side rail things that all but prevent access to the tray from the side.https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/22/heres-why-the-tesla-cybertruck-has-its-crazy-look/Maybe it's for the hipster camper crowd?Probably the only thing that makes sense on this is the stainless steel panels. Maybe expect this look and functionality on other trucks in the coming years?No chipped paintwork, looks pretty resilient, probably scratch proof to a large degree?Although aren't the stainless steel panels on the Delorean a bit of pain to maintain or something?Those back seats look crazy uncomfortable?

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:32:09 am
content: Musk has probably got sick of people gushing over everything that he creates, and is now trolling. And the market will probably lap this up, too.Also, stainless steel is actually quiteimpractical in terms of keeping it looking fresh ...

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:36:15 am
content: Since it looks like an F117 stealth fighter plane design, perhaps you can dodge radar traffic controls

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:41:34 am
content: Glass breaking and Elon's excuses pretty much sum up their approach to development.Design looks pretty impractical and people buying such vehicles expect durability, and that does not come with Tesla's track record.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:53:03 am
content: I think it is nice to see companies try new/strange things, I don't get the hate. Worst case it fails and, unless you personally bought one, you are out nothing. Best case, everyone is better off.Tesla headquarters are nearby and the bay area has one of the highest concentration of Teslas. If this does launch, driving around town in a few years is going to seem like something out of a science fiction movie.I wonder if they will be able to get side cameras approved as a replacement for mirrors. It makes sense beyond aesthetics, mirrors are a decent contributor to air resistance.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:57:02 am
content: Quote from: Weston on November 24, 2019, 08:53:03 amNot one rats arse should be given to air drag caused by side mirrors on atruck

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 09:01:51 am
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on November 24, 2019, 08:41:34 amCompletely impractical, you'd have to jump up into the tray to reach stuff.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 09:14:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 08:57:02 amThis is the furthest preview Tesla has given into their product lines. I would expect that once they get it approved none of their cars will have side mirrors. Tesla spends a lot of effort minimizing drag coefficient, the model 3 has ~ the lowest drag coefficient of any production car.Low air resistance might not fit into your conception of what a truck should be, but that value impacts the values they can claim for range, which is important for marketing. Additionally, a lot more people in the USA own trucks without a legitimate use case, it is more of a lifestyle thing. Thats why all the american automakers sell so many trucks. It might not fit in with the social signaling that owning a truck typically provides, lower air resistance / longer range would impact that (large) segment.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 09:37:26 am
content: "Tesla armor glass"https://youtu.be/aRSMQ2hRzs4?t=22

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 09:44:15 am
content: Is it April 1st ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 09:51:12 am
content: Quote from: Weston on November 24, 2019, 09:14:50 amThe financial market doesn't seem to think it's going to sell, Tesla's stock took a hammering on this announcement.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:02:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 09:01:51 amThat has always been the case with higher clearance pick-ups and virtually anything with a tub, perhaps not to this extent though. There is another video about which shows their tail gate which incorporates a retractable ramp being deployed so as to permit the loading of a quad bike, handy if the truck breaks down I suppose.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:07:59 am
content: It had 146k pre-orders one day after unveil. Why would it be marketing flop?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:09:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 09:01:51 amBut it has rolling roof on top. As for me, being able to cover stuff from rain and dust is more important than accessing from sides.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:18:26 am
content: It looks for all the world like a 1960s "concept car" from some very small, struggling car company.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:29:11 am
content: Tesla must have hired the guy that designed the Pontiac Aztec.That is worse than hideous.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:31:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 08:22:54 amI think the linked explanation is poor.Holden & Falcon Utes had unibody construction for decades.OK, they had modest side panels (not stupid looking ones, though!) & weren't as easy to load as a chassis type "pickup", but people bought them & used them, in many thousands for more than half a century.Quote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:31:38 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 24, 2019, 10:07:59 amI hadn't heard. That's insane, but I guess not surprising given the Tesla fan base, and it's only a $100 deposit vs a $1000 deposit for the model 3.The real test will come once it actually ships and Joe Average is making a buying decision. At the moment sales would be 100% Tesla fans.Ford sell almost a million F series utes a year.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:44:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 10:31:38 amThat million probably includes a lot of full body models as well as utes/pickups. They areinsanelypopular over there.Had one as a hire car in Canada a few years back. Turns out if you park them on a hill with less than a quarter tank of fuel that they won't start the next day - that was fun.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:01:20 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 24, 2019, 10:44:50 amMy 1936 Chev had that problem, due to a faulty fuel pump.Ain't progress grand?

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 12:19:26 pm
content: Truck buyers are a special market.Imagine you’re trying to enter a ~$100 billion market segment that:Has one of the strongest brand loyalty than any other segment;89% male buyers;Doesn’t give a sh$t about global warming and eco-friendly stuff...It's definitely polarizing, regarding the design... Some people love it, it's different from all the other pickups that are one more equal to another.But at the same time is so radical that a lot of people hate. I'm still trying to understand the marble dash: That thing will be great in case of an accident, or it's only for the prototype and will not be used in the final product.Time will tell if Tesla made the right decision. One thing for sure, no one can say that Tesla just copied the others or follow the market design.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 12:56:14 pm
content: I think Tesla are playing a long game.They intentionally made the first-look car a bit extreme just to get the "style" into peoples minds early on.Over the months/years to come, before it's put into production, they will slowly change things to make the car more normal looking.Think of it this way.If you set the standard of how 'extreme' extreme can get, but then you back-off a little, people will be happy with something they would have found too extreme otherwise. (if they had never seen the extreme version)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 01:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on November 24, 2019, 12:19:26 pmThat's why I think the market hammered the share price, they don't see this being a winner. And no, selling a few hundred thousand to your fan base is not a "winner".When you come out with something that looks, quite frankly, ridiculous, and seemingly quite impractical for the workers who want to actually use it as a truck. On top of that it's of course electric which adds another marketing whammy on top, especially in a, dare I say it, more traditional redneck market than a car for the San Francisco fanboys.I might be wrong, and the Yankee rust belt might lap this up, but I'm doubting it. My prediction is it will ultimately be a marketing failure.And it's probably end of 2021 delivery at best. If the economy falters in that time, then it'll impact sales big time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 01:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on November 24, 2019, 12:56:14 pmMost likely, it's years away from shipping. The high end model even longer.BTW, I wonder what happens if you try and ford a creek in this thing?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 01:21:54 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 08:22:54 amIf i saw it in the woods i would have thought a SWAT team is having a picnicQuoteAnd what is the deal with the square steering wheel?

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 01:39:28 pm
content: The lack of mirrors might turn regular truck buyers away from this thing.Truck buyers will likely look at the performance numbers. I.E, what it can haul, tow, etc.The seating hardly seems to have considered ride comfort. I doubt it will handle terrain too well.I think the "big 3" have the edge over this one in many ways.Closest standard production truck I saw like this was a Honda Ridgeline, and even that was changed to look more like full size pick ups.This idea has fail written all over it.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 01:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 24, 2019, 01:39:28 pmI dunno. I reckon it looks ideal for rescuing the family and getting them home when the Land Rover breaks down again.I think it's a face only a mother could love, but my track record on predicting market success approaches that of Fords Edsel division.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 04:36:58 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 24, 2019, 10:18:26 amLogicar from 1982,http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oR5wZhHz1js/TrGUzRWGmEI/AAAAAAAAGYo/LZpz2oZlmKo/s640/0211_logicar_03.jpg

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 05:26:35 pm
content: I don't think the Cybertruck's design is a fail as other users suspect. It's for people which are attention seeking or have the need to show that they are different. And I'd assume that the nonround design helps lowering production costs.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 05:29:53 pm
content: Rumour has it that the final product will look like this :

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 08:41:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 01:08:21 pmSurprisingly it can ford water almost a metre deep.This thing seems to have been designed solely to meet performance specs, and it does a good job of that - the problem is that appearance, marketability and typical 'ute practicality' were not in the specs!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:41:02 pm
content: I mean on one hand at least it doesn't look like a used bar of soap like all the other cars on the road. On the other hand, it's hideously ugly and looks completely impractical which is exactly not what one wants in a pickup truck. I'm not really sure who the target market is for this thing, hipsters with more money than sense who just want something different? You're not gonna see tradesmen or hunters rolling around in these things.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 24, 2019, 04:36:58 pmThat looks like the Tesla truck would look if somebody took it as a beginning and transformed it into something useful and practical. Boxy vehicles maximize interior volume relative to exterior space, but lots of weird angles just make it look strange.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 10:56:29 pm
content: What if you don't want the short bed? THAT'S the problem with unibody trucks, you have 0 real options. These are trucks for people who dont need a truck.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:12:46 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 24, 2019, 10:56:29 pmisn't most trucks bought by people who don't need a truck?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:22:15 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 24, 2019, 05:26:35 pmIt's very deliberately done to look like a wild 80's movie dystopian future truck that is absolutely targeted at the people who want attention. Just like the Hummer craze.They'll succeed at that market for sure, but likely fail with Joe Average who wants a practical truck.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:26:48 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 24, 2019, 10:56:29 pmYes, plenty of people who don't need a truck buy a truck, just like big 4WD's are the rage here in Sydney, particularly on the north shore where they are called "Mosman Tanks" (Mosman is an expensive exclusive suburb on the north shore).Although I've never understood why anyone would want something so big, makes it very impractical to drive and park and maneuver for everyday use. It's like owning a 2" clearance Lamborghini for everyday use around town, very impractical.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:55:20 pm
content: Doesn't stop people from doing it around where I live.And if they don't own a car with 2" clearance, they make it that way.It's very common across the US for truck owners that do not really need a truck to own one anyway.Not as bad as owners of H2s, or FG Cruisers (ugh, a nightmare to do maintenance on)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 12:14:12 am
content: It's the reason crossovers are all the rage now. They're fake SUVs, flimsy unibody cars styled to look like rugged offroad vehicles for the masses of posers who want the look.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 02:30:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 01:08:21 pmHell, I've forded a creek with an EH Holden -------My old Boss did it with a Standard Vanguard!Before that, people used Overlands, Whippets, Chevs & model T Fords.Modern people are too wimpy to go out of their driveway without something that looks like it belongs in a war zone!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 02:50:52 am
content: This thing is just begging for camouflage finish

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 02:55:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 11:26:48 pmThere are several advantages to pickups over various passenger vehicles. Maintenance is easier. Climate control is more effective because the cab is smaller than the volume of a car. Visibility is better. If you do need to carry something oversize, it is no problem. They are more rugged.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:40:43 am
content: Quote from: Bud on November 25, 2019, 02:50:52 amThe problem is ---we can't "un-see" it!

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:47:23 am
content: Quote from: Bud on November 25, 2019, 02:50:52 amI suspect they will need it to hide from the missile throwing sceptics who will still question the integrity of those windows.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:50:38 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on November 25, 2019, 02:55:27 amNot in the Cybertruck, visibility looks pretty awful with those small triangular windows, and no side mirrors.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 04:00:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2019, 03:50:38 amMaybe it would work as a submarine....

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 04:32:09 am
content: Horrid visibility is pretty much standard among modern vehicles, and then they slap a bandaid over that by adding cameras and warning gadgets. Whenever I drive a newish car I feel like I'm putting on blinders. Auto designers must be on some good drugs these days. Absurdly high belt lines, swoopy roofs and massive wide pillars leads to miniature windows and blind spots a mile wide. In many of them it's so bad that it's downright dangerous.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 08:11:54 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2019, 03:50:38 amMaybe they're gonna replace them with cameras too.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 09:24:30 am
content: 146k pre orders sounds impressive however if you read the conditions it means absolutely nothing, since if they cancel it before delivery they get a full refund.Quotehttps://www.tesla.com/order/download-order-agreement?redirect=no&country=US&model_code=mp

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 09:56:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2019, 03:50:38 amFront windows are larger than in Ford F150. And interior is way more spacious.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 10:36:06 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 25, 2019, 04:32:09 amThat's progress. Less glass, less heat load and less fuel spent on the A/C. Apparently it also has something to do with crash tests and rigidity.I don't like it either.Mind you with smaller windows it reduces the opportunity for the driver to be distracted from their phone.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 11:26:38 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 25, 2019, 11:19:35 amI agree, we have seen this with the model3 as well.Personally I think this kind of pre-order is again a bit stock manipulation, although the demo hurt them in the stockmarket so they'd be lucky to break even next week

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 11:27:58 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 25, 2019, 10:36:06 am

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:47:50 pm
content: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198701215376216064QuoteQuote

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 25, 2019, 11:19:35 amNo, it doesn't work. Tesla did not create any allocation queue for model 3 reservation for people to sell it. It was just first buy (independent of reservation date), first delivery model.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 04:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2019, 03:50:38 amThats my biggest issue with it (cybertruck), it has the front window of a car. I hate driving my wife's CUV even because the front window is so much harder to see out of than my truck. You can't see when making a turn because a big pillar is in the way.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 06:51:21 pm
content: I came across this video by an experienced mechanic.For the first few minutes, he provides a view of the Cybertruckhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ySCV4f43zw&frags=pl%2CwnGiven what he says on Elon Musk's automotive team, now it all makes sense.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 07:02:36 pm
content: Of one thing I am absolutely certain...If they film a re-make of "Back to the Future" within the next 25 years, I'm sure they'll feature this vehicle instead of a DeLorean.Who knows? Perhaps by then TDK, Kemet, Vishay and others will have already developed a practical flux capacitor?

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 08:41:15 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on November 25, 2019, 07:02:36 pmBut it will be made in china so you'll have a +/- 30% tolerance for the correct destination year.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 09:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 25, 2019, 08:41:15 pmAnd it will fail from just sitting in a parking space.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 12:05:29 am
content: Didn't The Simpsons already have an episode about this?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 12:43:05 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 24, 2019, 10:41:02 pmExisting pickups look hideous and ungainly to me as it is, but thats just my opinion.I suspect he already knows tradesmen or hunters have little interest in electric vehicles. Or has some other plan.If you want a traditional EV truck you can get the Rivian, although the base price is much higher ($70k vs 40k):https://www.kbb.com/car-news/rivian/2100006867/Base price of an F150 is about $30k. So at least price wise it is in that market.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:44:21 am
content: I want to get my old s10 back and do thishttps://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evtruck/html/bedup.html

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:46:00 am
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on November 26, 2019, 12:05:29 amI have a feeling this is how it went down between Elon and the makers of the Cybertruck.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:55:53 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 26, 2019, 12:43:05 amI disagree with respect to tradesmen vis a vis electric, they might be attracted to a vehicle that also doubles as a job-site power source. Musk as claimed this as one of the features. I have owned trucks for decades now, since 1980, and used them as trucks. My first was a 1 ton 1963 chevy one ton flat bed, then ford 250 8-footstep-sidefollowed by other used, generally smaller trucks. Having a flat stake bed or step side is a big deal for loading convenience. Also important for an actual work truck: having a ladder rack for long stuff. I have custom welded my own to get the design I want.I have watched the North American truck market evolve from majority practical use to suburban transport. The North American market is strange, with the strangeness reinforced by the big three auto makers as it has been very profitable for them. Ford's biggest moneymaker, selling upscale F150's. The dealerships will still sell you a base model "work truck" and they even call them that but try to find them on the lot. The salespeople will guide you away from them and upsell you, and may not even have a base model to show you.Another aspect is the styling. This is pure appeal to soccer moms and beta males who want their truck to signal brash aggressive strengthy-ness. Years ago I had an idiot colleague who confided in me for no apparent reason that he thought the grills on cars resembled faces, with the headlights being eyes. I just thought he was being a weirdo, but no this is a real psychological marketing thing. There was even a Cadillac car commercial a few years back that highlighted the new improved grill in those exact terms. Bizarre. That explains the trend to these exaggerated huge vertical grills and high belt lines now seen universally across the market. Most Idiots really want this.What that means for me, a used truck buyer that only wants work trucks is that the used market has become a shit show.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 02:29:43 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on November 26, 2019, 01:55:53 amCountless portable power inverters on the market if you need that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 02:38:54 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 26, 2019, 02:29:43 amIf you need anything of decent power and energy storage, it's heavy and expensive. Needs charging or refueling in case of generator. Also you will need to chose when to take it. With Cybertruck you have virtually unlimited electricity and compressed air source without any hassle at all.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 03:07:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 26, 2019, 02:29:43 amAnd for a lot less cost. But that's common sense, I suppose

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 03:37:30 am
content: A very big selling point for an electric pickup in many urban areas of the US is free access to the HOV lanes during commute times and they haven't implemented an equivalent of gasoline taxes on electric vehicles (yet).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:47:02 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on November 26, 2019, 01:55:53 amThe most ridiculous part about the gigantic grills is that most of them are fake. If you look closely they will have a small box or slot intake and the rest is just molded plastic. I suspect the reason grills and wheels are getting progressively larger and more exaggerated is that the rest of the cars have become virtually identical so these other areas get enlarged to compensate, trying to show brand identity. Can't stand it myself, I've always hated fake things. I still remember when Subaru started including fake hood scoops that were just blocked off.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 06:13:35 am
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 26, 2019, 03:07:40 amExcept Cybertruck costs about the same as usual ICE trucks.https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 06:21:56 am
content: Just put price, look and/or aesthetically aside, regarding the "thick" stainless steel body that Musk bragged about, is there any dis or advantages ? I mean from technicality POV only.Ok, the easy parts are rust proof compared to steel plate body, body weight ? and etc. Anything else ?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 09:04:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2019, 11:22:15 pmI think they will fail with Joe Average who wants a practical truck too. But not because the Cybertruck isn't practical, in some ways it's quite practical.It's more that Joe Average will not want to turn up to a job site in something non-standard for fear of being a joke to their peers.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 10:16:52 am
content: If you look how an average contractor uses his pickup as a tool you directly know this Tesla thing is not the right tool.Actually I would not call it a pickup at all, it just is not IMO.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 10:28:10 am
content: Quote from: Psi on November 26, 2019, 09:04:41 amOr in something which looks home made by someone with minimal skill.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:03:01 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 26, 2019, 02:29:43 amAnd many being cheap square wave that will burn up your drill battery charger. Even non electric vehicles have been advertising built in inverters for a number of years already.Plug in inverters are limited in power unless you want to run your own wiring. You'll often see trucks at job sites with the hood up where they have them clamped to the battery.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:48:26 pm
content: I vote for this one:

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 03:10:23 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on November 26, 2019, 02:37:20 pmAnother example of a pickup truck

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 03:11:10 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 26, 2019, 06:13:35 amI meant the power inverters.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 03:12:12 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 26, 2019, 01:44:21 amYou won't have to worry about a CEL from the Secondary Air Injection System.Ugh, what a pain that thing is...

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 03:50:09 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 26, 2019, 03:10:23 pmThe cyberturd is a Countach with botox.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:08:02 pm
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 26, 2019, 03:11:10 pmDuh? I meant it costs about the same as regular truck but power source is already included.

author: Ducttape
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:10:12 pm
content: - Sharp edges and corners tend to concentrate stresses. Will be interesting to see how body (and paint) look after a few years.- Sharp edges and corners don't seem 'pedestrian-friendly'.- Flat panels may create extreme glare problems for other drivers on sunny days. Should not wash or wax, keep dirty.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:12:17 pm
content: Quote from: Ducttape on November 26, 2019, 04:10:12 pmThere is no paint. And it's not like regular cars have no sharp edges.

author: Ducttape
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:31:46 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 26, 2019, 04:12:17 pmI stand corrected on the paint, and fair point regarding sharp edges. Although I suspect (intuition only) that a linear crease joining 2 flat planes will fatigue faster than a 3d crease on a 3d surface. But yeah, citation needed. I can't think of an example of a vehicle with corners this sharp though.I'm just gonna stand by my pedestrian collision observation. Of course at high speeds a pedestrian is toast regardless of body shape.Oh, and it just occurred to me that the cybertruck will probably handle moose collisions pretty well.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:49:38 pm
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 26, 2019, 03:12:12 pmMine was the 2.5L Iron Duke, didn't have the air injection stuff. Had a 5 speed manual transmission and 4x4 and could hit 30mpg.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 04:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 26, 2019, 01:03:01 pmNone of this has to be the case though. For well under $1,000 one can have a quality pure sine inverter properly installed in any work truck. Or they can get a Honda EU2000i inverter generator which provides around 1.6kW of quiet, portable power. Those willing to do a bit of work can get a pure sine inverter for much less and install it themselves. The Tesla truck really offers no compelling advantage in this department as far as I can see. I mean it's going to need an inverter too, whether factory installed or an option, because you're not going to plug your drill charger directly into a HVDC traction battery.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 06:02:05 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 26, 2019, 10:16:52 amI would not either. I do not remember what the style is called but it reminds me of those two door sedans where the rear seats and trunk are replaced with a low cargo bed. Essentially they are a pickup built onto a car frame so much lower to the ground. They were popular in the US until fuel economy regulations made them essentially illegal to produce.Quote from: eugenenine on November 26, 2019, 01:03:01 pmInverter power is primarily limited by the high currents required from a 12 volt automotive source. The higher voltage from an electric vehicles traction battery will be able to support a much higher power inverter. This same limitation applies to uninterruptible power supplies which is why 48 and 60 volt lead-acid battery stacks are so popular.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 06:36:20 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 26, 2019, 04:54:05 pmSure, installing ne yourself would make more sense, but since all the other manufacturers are selling a 120v plug as a feature then tesla has to sell a 120v plug as a feature too. We have kind of reached peak automotive design where there isn't much to differentiate between brands other than the number of features.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 07:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 26, 2019, 04:54:05 pmWith the EVs available to date, I've always been frustrated by the notion of having ~100 kWh of energy sitting around that I can't access except by using it to push a car down the road. I still have a hand-shaped indentation in my forehead that I gave myself when my colleague asked me to jump start his Lexus hybrid SUV."Wait, why didn't they just... Never mind, I'll go get my cables."If the Cybertruck makes its entire 500-mile battery charge available via clean sinewave power that is (presumably) enough to run a welder or other light construction equipment, they are going to sell at least one of them, to me. It will be a much better backup household power source than a noisy, maintenance-intensive generator or an inverter powered by a lead-acid car battery.I don't really care what it looks like or what anyone else thinks about it. They just have to avoid doing anything too stupid.Also, an industry that lets this happen:... is an industry that needs shaking up.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 07:55:40 pm
content: The Toyota Pius is like that, if you let the 12v starting battery go dead the car can't start, I've heard of people having to jump start them before.The problem you have with adding your own 120v inverter is having to drill holes and run big wires to handle the current and then have the dealer 'viod' the warranty. I had a dealer tell me my aftermarket radio could have caused the transmission problem when the code they pulled said "transmission controller load communication with solenoid 2". I pushed back and eventually got the work done, covered by warranty but it was still a hassle.companies want the lowest cost of ownership, if you have to get the truck and then take it to someone to have stuff installed on it, that costs. So if the manufacturer can sell one with an inverter and switches for lights, etc then they can get the sale. That's why the big three have 'upfitter' programs, you can get trucks straight from the dealer with snow plow hookups, warning lights, inverters, etc.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:00:00 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on November 26, 2019, 07:27:29 pmThats why I said, we've reached peak design. the current car/cuv shape you can't get much more room for people without making the wheelbase longer. Making the wheelbase longer makes the turning radius bigger so the consumer has more problems parking. They are all the same length because that settles to the point of balance between room and maneuverability. Same with enarly any other spec you can name, they have all converged on the best compromise so all the cars are basically the same.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:22:45 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 26, 2019, 07:55:40 pmThis doesn't seem to be much of a problem. I could probably give you the names of half a dozen tradesmen I know who have an inverter installed in their work truck, it's really a non-issue. If Tesla supplies one from the factory then that's just motivation for some other auto maker to include a quality inverter from the factory. It's not unique to the Tesla.If installing a radio can cause a transmission malfunction then the vehicle is defective by design.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:37:45 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 26, 2019, 08:00:00 pmThat's because the current car/cuv shape is stupid, it is as you say a compromise, car makers have stopped making spoons, forks and knives and consolidated into making sporks. All of them, there is virtually no choice anymore, if you want a sedan, a station wagon or an SUV you pretty much have a CUV and no other options available.My nearly 30 year old Volvo wagon is superior by almost every metric to the silly crossovers that everyone else has. It has a larger interior volume and the boxy shape maximizes the usefulness of that volume. It has superb visibility with huge windows and narrow pillars all around, the bumper sticks out only about 6" behind the rear window. The ground clearance is equal to that of many CUVs despite the overall vehicle being substantially shorter yet it somehow has as much headroom inside too. With the lower center of gravity it handles better without needing silly bandaids like active stability control. Even with the turbocharged version of what is essentially a mid-70s engine design it still gets better than 25mpg on the highway with a manual gearbox. The naturally aspirated version can top 30mpg with a light foot. Something else that I consider a desirable feature is it has tactile switches and knobs, not a touchscreen in sight, and the radio is not integrated into anything so I have a standard DIN adapter allowing me to install any radio I please and upgrade it as I see fit. It has sensibly sized rims that while large in its day they are still much smaller than the current trend which IMO looks much better and results in much less harsh handling where I drive (on real roads, not race tracks). It is rugged and has actual bumpers, but there are crumple zones that will sacrifice to protect the occupants in a serious collision. Far ahead of its time the reputation for safety is legendary and unfortunately I can say that I have personally tested that feature a few years ago when I was nailed by a semi truck in a similar Volvo. It's also simple and easy to maintain and repair, and it accomplishes this without sacrificing anything I care about because there is not layer upon layer of bloat and bandaids to compensate for the layers of bloat beneath.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 26, 2019, 08:22:45 pmSo in order to use it as a backup/emergency household supply, I just need to leave the car idling in my garage overnight.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on November 26, 2019, 08:38:33 pmOk I guess we're moving the goalposts now. My comment was specifically about tradesmen who want to run power tools or charge their cordless tools at a jobsite without power. If you want to run your house during a power outage I suppose it's an option, or you could skip the vehicle and just have the battery pack (Power Wall) but personally I'll stick to the <$1000 Honda inverter generator, it's been rock solid, never done anything more than change the oil once a season.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:56:30 pm
content: A big American 'pickup' for big America. Will not sell well outside of the US except for the few 'look at me i'm in an outlandishly enormous car make way make way' crowd.There is a guy around here drives a raptor, ridiculous thing, to pick up his kids from school, never seen anything in the tray. My Midget II has probably carried more than it ever has.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 09:06:17 pm
content: I think people should be able to buy the car they want.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 09:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 26, 2019, 08:41:23 pmNot moving the goalposts, we just have different goals. I see the Cybertruck as a mobile PowerPack 1, basically. According to Wikipedia, the PowerPack offers storage capacity of 100 kWh at $470/kWh. So the Cybertruck is basically a slightly more expensive PowerPack that, oh, by the way, can also be used as a truck.That's pretty nifty IMO. Duct-taping an inverter to an F150 or running a 2 kW generator in your garage may be fine for your use case, but it doesn't scratch my particular itch.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 09:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 26, 2019, 08:41:23 pmYea, every contractor I know(Have some in my family) has a generator for on site power. Having your vehicle that needs to move around all your materials and tools providing all the power as well is likely to make them uneasy about making it home. Nobody wants to fill up their truck after work much less sit at a charger.A generator and some spare gas is too convenient.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 10:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 26, 2019, 08:56:30 pmI guess you missed this article then:https://uk-cms.parkindigo.com/wp-content/uploads/Top-Selling-Car-Models-6-1.jpgThe top selling car in australia is 533cm long, cybertruck is 587cm long, F150 is 589cm. 50cm is not a huge difference.I don't disagree that enormous is stupid, just pointing out the market is big.Quote from: Ducttape on November 26, 2019, 04:31:46 pmPedestrian thing is a big deal, you're much less likely to live if hit by a truck or SUV.The hope here though is that cybertruck would have decent auto-braking, etc. built in to avoid this when possible. Something that trucks are severely lacking in.https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/02/28/pedestrian-safety-crisis-deaths-ghsa/2993321002/

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 10:36:35 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on November 26, 2019, 09:06:17 pmI agree, 100%!

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 11:31:03 pm
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 26, 2019, 10:36:35 pmBrilliant! I'm so pleased to hear that! You see I reallywanta Ferrari Dino but I'm notableto afford it. As you chaps think that I "should beableto buy any car Iwant" I'm sure that, as principled chaps, you'll be good for your word and enable me to finally get one. Would you both be happy to chip in, say £100,000 each, towards it. Thanks a bundle guys!

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 12:49:19 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 26, 2019, 11:31:03 pmI want an F-250, with a diesel.Should I start a campaign?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 01:00:05 am
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 27, 2019, 12:49:19 amLet's face it, it would make more sense than a lot of the Kickstarterset althat find their way to notice on this site.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 01:05:14 am
content: I want a fully restored 1938 Buick straight 8 "sloper".Not that it's practical, or does anything much that a 1999 Toyota Camry can't do.I just want it!!!!https://forums.aaca.org/topic/306380-my-%E2%80%9Cnew-1938-buick-special%E2%80%9D/

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 01:47:57 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 26, 2019, 10:26:29 pm50cm is a significant amount, but more so it's also larger in the other dimensions too. You put something like a Hilux or Ranger next to a 150 and the 150 is markedly larger.https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-the-new-ford-ranger-really-compares-in-size-t-1786631446Really, when you see a modern "American Pickup" like the F150, and a "rest of the world normal sized ute" like a Hilux parked together, the F150 looks giant.This is a Ford Ranger (comparable to modern hilux size) and an F150 Raptor...

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 02:13:15 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 27, 2019, 01:47:57 amI see the problem there.It says "Dewalt" on the side.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 02:13:57 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 27, 2019, 01:00:05 amAwesome!I'll just claim I'm buying it to study new methods of propulsion...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 02:26:56 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on November 26, 2019, 09:15:23 pmWho said anything about duct taping or running a generator in the garage? That's just stupid. It's not that hard to properly install an inverter in a work truck the same way you'd install any other accessory, tradesmen do this all the time, it's not a hack. Only an idiot would run a generator *inside* their garage, I set it next to the house like the millions of other sensible people who use portable generators in emergencies.I'm not saying you shouldn't buy one of these things, but it's pretty clear you're making excuses to buy a cool expensive toy, there are countless simpler, cheaper and more practical ways to get emergency power, which absolutely everyone who needs emergency power already do.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 02:31:24 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 27, 2019, 01:05:14 amWell it can look great, that's something the Camry has a tough time with. Well, 1999 is old enough that there was still some sanity in automotive design when it was made.It does seem like design peaks every now and then, 1940s, some in the 60s, some cool and innovative stuff in the 80s running into the 90s, with slumps in between where a lot of pointless garbage was made. I'm left wondering if anyone will ever again make a car that I have any interest in owning.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 03:35:36 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 26, 2019, 09:17:11 pmDrive home, attach power cord, at morning it's fully charged. Never need to visit any fueling station.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 03:55:09 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 26, 2019, 09:17:11 pmI was reading this thread and was beginning to get puzzled. I am glad I saw the reply above which kind of reaffirm I am still sane.I used to take note of the contractor around my residential development when I walk/run around my development as exercise. I know in time I may need similar service. So I ask for their business card, note where they are, watch them work for a few moments... Business card first - once they know you are a prospect, they don't mind you watching or even ask questions. Most import is I may be able get some feedback from his/her real customers.Of over a dozen or so I've seen, I have not seen anyone of them using their vehicle to power their tools. Of all the contractors I've seen, almost all of them doing major work brought along their own standard alone generator - gas powered generator for electrical, and sometimes gas powered generator for compress air. Most are small 1x-4x suitcase size, some are big tow-behind models. They can work all day and while some stay to continue work, another can take the truck to go pick up additional material (or fuel) as needed.I do take note on his equipment as well. It is an insight into how that guy's business is going. If the truck is rusted and duct-taped together... I'd skip him over. I am not sure I would look at them too positively if they come here with a work truck like that to (say for example) fix my deck. If they come to do paid-work, in some proportion, I am paying for his truck. That Tesla truck doesn't seem a good-buy for me. I would feel just as uncomfortable if the same deck repairman came with a Chevrolet Corvette towing a trailer with wood planks and a gas-powered generator. The same "Is this guy for real?" will ring in the back of my mind.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 05:47:38 am
content: If this is a cybertruck i suppose you must login to your google account to start the engine?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 06:17:59 am
content: The EU has a Clean Air For Europe programme (CAFE) for 2020 , so next year for car manufacturers.They should keep a very tight CO2 emission over their entire product range which even small 4 cylinder petrol cars do not meet today. This means they are now making 3 cylinder cars, or cars that shutdown half their cilinders during highway driving and ofcourse EVs.In the mean time on the other side of the ocean:Quote from: sleemanj link=topic=219524.msg2802956#msg2802956Why do we even bother to try to make a difference, its just completely hopeless

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 09:39:55 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 27, 2019, 02:31:24 amThe 1999 Camry is quite pleasant in appearance, if bland, but it is positively stylish, compared to its successors.Most of today's cars look as if they have been beaten savagely with the "ugly stick".Even though only a few years into the "current" era, the Dodge "Nitro" showed that Chrysler Corporation hadn't lost the art of making ugly cars, which they polished to jewel like perfection with the "Ugh-mobile" of all time, the 1930s Airflow Chrysler.They have actually recovered a bit, but the Ram has "a face only a mother could love".My 20 year old Camry is quieter, more responsive & has a much smoother ride than my daughter's 2017 Hyundai Accent.

author: Doom-the-Squirrel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 03:32:17 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on November 27, 2019, 05:47:38 amOr Facebook. Or Twitter.Imagine if you had to login to Youtube to do it. Well, same thing as Google...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 06:48:52 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 27, 2019, 09:39:55 amI would take bland any day over the current trend of everything trying to look comically angry, even advertising touts "aggressive styling", why would I want my car to look aggressive? It's not a battle-bot. The smoother and quieter ride is likely due to having sensibly sized rims with proper tires. The trend these days is HUGE rims with tiny rubber band tires, that's fine for a race track but for a passenger car on real world roads it results in a very harsh and noisy ride. It's also fragile, hit a pothole that an older car would take in stride and you can knock the bead off the rim or bend a rim which is of course crazy expensive to replace.The current styling trends are very much form over function. The funny thing is the Pontiac Aztek was so widely hated for being ugly and now it doesn't look out of place among everything else on the road now, I guess it was just ahead of its time.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 07:17:53 pm
content: I have not seen a single Aztec for a long time in Toronto, probably 3-4 years. At some point there was quite a number of them around.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 08:25:56 pm
content: They were not made for very long and they were not well liked, so it's not surprising they are mostly gone. Especially in areas where road salt rots them out.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 09:29:04 pm
content: Quote from: Doom-the-Squirrel on November 27, 2019, 03:32:17 pmNow on an internet outage, you can stay at work. Even if you get home, you can't open your door anyway. If you do manage to climb in, you can't operate your lights or the AC, so why would you want to start your truck to get home?Progress, live with it. When google thinks that isn't your home anymore... Arrgh, I don't want to get too complex here.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 11:05:17 pm
content: The Cadillac "sharp edge" styling was considered radical, when it came out...It seems to have stood the test of time OK.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 01:56:47 am
content: Yep a Cadillac that never came out may end up very similar to this truck.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 03:17:01 am
content: Anybody here remember the Triumph " Mayflower"?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Mayflower

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 10:08:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 24, 2019, 10:07:59 amAgreed. There is a whole hoard of fanboys who buy it. Just like people buy Apple. And remember Americans have a different taste where it comes to styling compared to the rest of the world. Rectangular shaped products work well on the US market.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:43:53 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 28, 2019, 10:08:05 pmI thought that was Sweden, Volvo

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 11:26:44 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 29, 2019, 08:43:53 amNo, that one (the 700-series) was clearly designed at the American market, that design was never realy liked by the Swedes, it was considered to be a bit to "American". I sold, but that was because it was a Volvo.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 01:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: Gromitt on November 30, 2019, 11:26:44 amIt certainly was. Having said that, more space in the back than the 240 and pretty much the same drive train. The 240 is far easier to make really handle though. I have a bit of a soft spot for my 740 IKEA box hauler. It's not as nice to work on as the 240's that came before it, but it is what it is.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 06:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 29, 2019, 08:43:53 amIt changes over time.I recall there was a time (I think in the 80's and early 90's), smooth curved body was what most premium cars aimed. I suppose the hard corners make it look more like cheaper stamped metal work whereas nice smooth curves make it look more like "hand shaped" as that was how the super premium cars like Rolls Royce were made. In due time, it probably will swing to another style when folks get tired of the current styling.Now, every other car looks pretty much the same. Not so long ago, I used to be able to spot the difference between cars at a glance. May be it is my aging-eyes, now until I see the logo or the name plate, I can't tell for sure if it is a BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, whatever. So "unconventional" look may just come back until it becomes the norm.I suppose cars are not unique. On a morning TV show (nearly a decade ago, not sure which), one of the kitchen/home appliance rep was being interviewed about new appliances. She made a point saying (not verbatim but correct reflection of her meaning) "of course the finishing will change from the (then current) apple-white, we need customers to be able to date their kitchen (presumable so as they know they are out of style and go back shopping)".

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 11:13:39 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 03, 2019, 06:53:32 pmHave you noticed how the car name plate / badges themselves have grown recently - they are literally the size of dinner plates on many cars now. It is as if the marketing departments have all agreed that there is really no difference between them other than the name plates, so they may as well go to town on them!Behind the scenes, many competitors use the same parts. E.g. Ford and GM use the same transmissions...https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/05/22/why-ford-and-general-motors-teamed-up-on-transmiss.aspx

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 04:25:01 am
content: https://youtu.be/-cvNfmL7XQgThese guys did some truck testing with a model X

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 05:04:51 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on December 03, 2019, 11:13:39 pmNow that you mentioned it, yeah, those logos are indeed a lot bigger. If the Rolls Royce's Spirit of Ecstasy grew at the same rate as the Mercedes' Propeller on the grill, the Rolls would have a human-baby sized Spirit of Ecstasy figurine on its hood. Let's not imagine how the Jaguar on the hood of Jaguars would be like...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 02:52:57 pm
content: Fortunately the cybertruck isn't road legal for Europe:https://carbuzz.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-wont-be-legal-in-europeWould it be a hoax after all? It seems that from a safety point of view it is a complete death trap. Why would Tesla burn their fingers on such a design?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 03:03:27 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 02:52:57 pmFirst of all, article says "unlikely Tesla could sell the Cybertruck in Europe as it appears now". No definite claim. Secondly it's BS speculation. There is no data if it crumples or not. Stainless steel body does not make it stiff as rock.QuoteAgain, so far it's nothing but BS speculations. Also track record shows that Tesla produces safest cars ever made.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 05:05:11 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 14, 2019, 03:03:27 pmWell, you can't make an armoured car from thin sheets of steel. Also the Cybertruck has a weight of at least (approx.) 4 metric tonnes given the vehicle class it is in. All in all I have not much doubt to question the expert's opinions on why the Cybertruck can not be road legal in Europe the way it is now. Given the fact that Tesla has vehicle safety high up the list it makes me wonder why Tesla would come up with a vehicle which seems to go against every basic principle of making a car safe (and the latter is the opinion from experts on European vehicle compliance).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 05:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 05:05:11 pmSomething that looks and is made differently does not mean that it goes against safety principles. Also many things are completely counter intuitive. So whatever says the "expert" who very likely is not even a mechanical engineer and without ever touching the car is worth very little. And it's not armored.QuoteI doubt he knows shit about it's basic structure. The only thing he knows is how it looks on the outside.As far as it goes about shape of it's front on the outside, it's similar to usual van but with flatter surfaces.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 06:10:01 pm
content: Sorry but you are second guessing the professional opinion of people who's job it is to judge and test cars for European compliance. They know a thing or two about vehicle construction and probably already have some actual (likely classified) data on the Cybertruck as well. Claiming such a person 'knows shit' isBTW: bullet proof = armored. Don't underestimate the damage a bullet can do. A couple of years ago they shot a car door filled with sand on Top Gear. The bullet went through.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 06:18:02 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 06:10:01 pmThe thing is I'm not guessing. I'm saying that guessing without actual data is spreading BS. Why would a guy from Germany have any classified data about Cybertuck?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 06:43:49 pm
content: Because it is his job to know!Think about this for a few seconds. This guy is speaking on behalve of his employer TuV which is a notified body for European vehicle compliance. What kind of lawsuits would he be subjecting his employer to if he was talking out of his arse c.q. making wild assumptions? Don't you think the press release on which the various articles are based has not passed the legal department of TuV to make sure all claims can be defended? I really shouldn't need to explain this.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 06:49:30 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 06:43:49 pmBecause how he effing knows about it when it's not common construction and nobody have seen internals?QuoteNo he does not.QuoteZero, because he made zero claims. All he said are just opinions. You cannot sue for guesses and opinions.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 06:54:13 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 14, 2019, 06:49:30 pmYes you can. It is called slander. And coming from a notified body this could be quite serious if they can't back their claims.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 06:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 05:05:11 pm... and with a driving license for cars you're limited to 3.5t in the EU.Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 05:05:11 pmThe EU regulations for vehicles have also a focus on protecting pedestrians and other road users, i.e. they require soft zones to minimize injuries of other people (not just the ones in the car) in case of an accident. I doubt a stainless steel box with four wheels has the required soft zones.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 07:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 06:54:13 pmNo it's not slander. For it to be slander, he should state it as fact. Opinion does not count. And if it was slander, Tesla could sue him regardless of actual properties of their car.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2019, 04:58:08 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2019, 02:52:57 pmAs well as the fact that Tesla has scrupulously avoided "funny looking" car designs in the past.Why would they go "over the top" with the Cybertruck?Stainless steel is no reason to have a ridiculous appearanceFord made six normal looking stainless steel cars in 1936.https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/05/24/stainless-steel-1936-ford-part-of-17-car-collection-donated-to-early-ford-v-8-museum/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2019, 09:33:06 am
content: You guys are hilarious. If it was hoax, it would be end of Tesla. If publicly traded company pulls such stunt, including collecting money for pre-orders, not only their stocks would drop. They would be heavily penalized by SEC as minimum.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 11:16:57 am
content: It's a truck for people who want a truck like that.If you don't want it then don't worry, it's not for you.If you find yourself getting annoyed that others want it, then this is your problem not theirs or the trucks.

author: valley001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2019, 04:00:23 am
content: I like it. I put in a pre order for one.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2019, 06:20:54 am
content: i like it, but it's totally impractical for me to have something that huge in my garage.If i had a need for a pickup truck and i had the money i would seriously consider a cybertruck.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2019, 04:13:04 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 22, 2019, 06:20:54 amIf you had a need for a pickup truck I doubt this thing would fulfill it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2019, 05:11:06 pm
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on December 22, 2019, 04:13:04 pmState what it cannot fulfill. It can do what normal pickup trucks can do. Unless the main thing for you is that it must look like classic truck.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2019, 11:43:11 pm
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on December 22, 2019, 04:13:04 pmThere are many reason to want a pickup truck. It's not just for contractors.I would quite like to go camping a lot more, and if i got a pickup truck that would likely be the main reason.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2019, 06:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 22, 2019, 05:11:06 pmPremise for wanting a truck is that you're looking for something primarily utilitarian for transporting stuff... Size of them come as a consequence. Cybertruck seems to waste a lot space for nothing, roof line should be the best indicator of that. I don't know if that was due to the exoskeleton and material used or just the "aesthetics" design, but with that design you're either wasting space in the cabin or compromising rear passengers' space. I expect the rear visibility to suck, and overall visibility not good.Side loading the bed it is limited by the sloping side (consequence of the exoskeleton approach), and this is not a small issue for truck. Also bed size to vehicle size ratio is pretty bad compared to what's on the market. That brings to the biggest issue - overall size. It's huge without additional benefits. With that size your maneuvering is harder than already hard one with pickups. There is legitimate question if it can be classified in the Light Duty pickup category. If not, not sure any of you private individuals would be buying it.Lack of a "safe" front bumper design and other road illegal solutions on it (mirrors, lights,...) that can't be there in the final solution, will affect the design. Making full turns and maneuvering are going to be annoying if that steering "wheel" stays there. - basically we still don't know what it will look like.Range? Ti's heavy, but it's alsoexpected to tow big load, and usually you don't expect chargers to be readily available in most of the places big pickups are used.Reliability? Tesla already showed they suck at it (leaking roof, frost, "melting" screen...). That can be forgiven with the S model, it's not your daily driver, you buy it for the thrills and what it represents (cleaner future), but for a utilitarian vehicle that is a big NO.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2019, 11:43:04 pm
content: It is probably safest to view this thing as a design concept vehicle, that will be toned down in several ways when reality meets the dream at some point.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2019, 07:43:14 am
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on December 23, 2019, 06:06:25 pmAll modern American massive trucks seem to have this issue, a massive footprint area, actual payload cargo area being possibly some 20% of the total footprint.This makes total sense, because pickup trucks are primarily bought for lifestyle reasons, and not used to transfer any cargo; from Wikipedia, "less than 15% of owners reported use in work as the pickup truck's primary purpose"Cybertruck doesn't seem any worse in this area; by eyeballing, it could even be slightly better.Inaccessible sides won't seem like an extra issue, either, because all the alternatives have the same problem: the ground clearance + body height + bed side wall thickness prevents accessing anything on the bed, in any case.I wouldn't buy it for the reason you mention, it's just that I wouldn't buy the competitors either, for the very same reason.I had a 1988 Mitsubishi L200, the shortest cab, longest bed, 2WD version, it was freaking useful as the footprint was only slightly bigger than a typical European/Japanese passenger vehicle, but it could take double the cargo a modern lifestyle pickup can take. The cargo "efficiency" being an order of magnitude higher! As a 2WD with non-excessive ground clearance, and barely acceptable engine power with the 2.5l diesel meant good fuel economy over 40 mpg, and the lousy power doesn't matter because it's not for racing. I was able to transport massive loads of stuff with this tiny little (on an American scale, at least) thing. With this truck, the bed was alsoactuallyaccessible from the sides, and thin side walls maximized the payload area. And no problems parking it in cities where parking an F-150 would be nearly impossible.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2019, 10:04:49 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on December 24, 2019, 07:43:14 amYes, that is a very important point i think a lot of people are missing.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2019, 01:45:13 am
content: What I hope happens is that this pushes the mainstream automakers to make electric trucks. I know Ford is looking into it. I can't justify the cost of buying any vehicle new, especially trucks (you're looking at like 60k+ out the door when all is said and done, even for a gas one - that's half my mortgage!) but if they at least make it to market eventually they'll show up on the used market, hopefully. Right now EVs are still too niche so there are none in my area. People are too worried about the performance in -40's, and honestly I'm not sure myself how well they do but if they're designed right with battery heaters when charging and so on it should work ok I would think. I've used my Ryobi cordless lithium ion powered drill in -30's when building my shed and it was fine. It did not like charging at those temps though so I had to charge it in the house but hopefully EVs preheat the battery.