affordable ESD Workbench Matts in Germany - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Axel1973
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 07:03:33 pm
content: Hi ya Experts.here in germany im looking around for quiet a while for a good but affordable ESD Matt for my workbench.Should be ...- <100 EUR per ca 900x600mm- heat resistant surface- non-conductive surface so i can plant the powered PCBs right on to it without gettin in trouble through some high resistance conducting surface.- robustMeanwhile i found two products on conrad.de that look interesting, but im confused about those surface resistance on both.Matt 1:http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/189481/ESD-Tischmatten-Set-Beige-HT03088-L-x-B-x-H-1190-x-590-x-2-mm-Beige/SHOP_AREA_27821&promotionareaSearchDetail=005claims to have 10e7 to 10e9 surface resistance.Matt 2:http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/189410/ESD-Tischmatten-Set-BJZ-C-184-102P-103-L-x-B-900-mm-x-600-mm-Grau/SHOP_AREA_27821&promotionareaSearchDetail=005got a more detailed datasheet. claiming to offer a 10e9 resistance and mention at least "some" information on robustness and heat resistance. but not much.What do you guys on eevblog think about those and/or do u have any further recommendations on ESD Matts available in germany that sell for personal and not just to commercial customers?thanksgreetsAxel

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 07:16:42 pm
content: I ended up with one that was posted on a ham radio web site .http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?359500-Industrial-Grade-ESD-60x40cm-mat-set&highlight=EDS+mats

author: Matje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 11:17:03 pm
content: Quote from: Axel1973 on January 25, 2013, 07:03:33 pmFirst one is made from Vinyl -> stay away, this is NOT heat resistant. You want one made from, uhh, in german "Kautschuk".The second one looks like the one I have. It is OK. It certainly doesn't mind some molten solder dropped onto it.You should check whether it would be cheaper to get the mat and the other stuff needed from elsewhere, e.g. Reichelt has it too (I assume the different manufacturers are just "fronts" for basically the same real manufacturer, as with a lot of other electronics stuff), for about 30 EUR, but that's only for the mat.As for robustness, well, the more you spend the better the product, within reason. This mat tends to retain indents (e.g. from the feet of some device standing on it for a time) for quite some time. No idea if that's normal.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 03:29:59 am
content: It's one price class up, but this is the mat I got:3M Electronic Specialty 8811.

author: amiq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 06:04:16 am
content: http://www.somersetsolders.com/product.php/1037/88/antistatic_bench_mats___1200_x_610mmJust noticed they have these on offerhttp://www.somersetsolders.com/product.php/1070/0/antistatic_bench_mat___1000_x_500mm_blue_matting

author: Axel1973
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 07:22:36 am
content: thanks for all those links. but...a) im looking for some source in the EU that will sale to "non commercial customers" and not only to commercial ones , ANDb) im still confused about the surface resistance on ALL those matts ive seen yet. i mean... Dave once showed in his videos that his matt DOES NOT CONDUCT NOTHING on the surface. even in the megohms range on a very short distance. while all these links and matts you have send in show that they DO conduct/have a resistance that can be measured on the top surface.Wont that affect lets say my high input resistance OP amp circuitry or my high power switch mode powersupply negatively in "some way" ??

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 07:51:56 am
content: Quote from: Axel1973 on January 25, 2013, 07:03:33 pmHi Axel,it says the surface is resistant to "glimmende Tabakwaren" (glowing tobacco products) so I'd assume it's also tough enough to withstand your iron. A burning cigarette is hotter than a soldering iron.Other than that the price seems fair to me (surprising as it's Conrad). I paid more for a smaller mat.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 09:00:04 am
content: Quote from: Axel1973 on January 26, 2013, 07:22:36 amI bought mine from Farnell. This:http://de.farnell.com/multicomp/082-0002f/esd-mat-550x1200mm-blk-2x10mm-knopf/dp/1687893. Additionally i got the wrist strap, Schuko connector and extra pushbutton cables for what i thought were quite reasonable prices. Has worked perfectly so far. Mind, i do have a separate heat resistant soldering plate ( a pizza stone ) so i haven't really put the heat resistance to a test.

author: TorqueRanger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 11:34:11 am
content: I have been using a art and crafts cutting mat and never had any problems..

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 11:58:47 am
content: I have this:www.reichelt.de/ESD-Erdungsmaterial/ESD-MATTE-1200/3/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=2;ARTICLE=110009;GROUPID=600;artnr=ESD+MATTE+1200It's cheap and the surface resistance shows nothing on my meter. I also haven't been able to melt it with the soldering iron.Quote from: Axel1973 on January 25, 2013, 07:03:33 pmCall yourself "Axel 1973 Electronics" and most companies will treat you as a commercial customer. That worked for me even when I was 12 and had an obviously young voice on the phone.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 02:05:14 pm
content: Quote from: komet on January 26, 2013, 11:58:47 amThese times are largely gone. These days in the EU they want to have your business VAT registration number (VATIN) to check if you are a business. And they do check for fake or made-up numbers. There is an online service where everyone can check, too.If you don't have one and live in the EU they rather refuse to take your money instead of going through the trouble to check if you are one of the special cases where a business is exempt from having a VATIN. And of course they are more than happy to get rid of private customers this way.

author: amiq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 07:35:21 pm
content: Quote from: Axel1973 on January 26, 2013, 07:22:36 amThe company I linked to are happy to sell to anyone worldwide, and even accept paypal.Quote from: Axel1973 on January 26, 2013, 07:22:36 amAll ESD mats conduct (how do you think they work?). No - they won't affect your circuits.

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 07:46:01 pm
content: This is a good shop (located in Germany) I bought my ESD stuff fromhttp://www.pkelektronik.com/egb-esd-reinraum/esd-belaege-matten/esd-tischmatten-sets.htmlI have this onehttp://www.pkelektronik.com/bernstein-esd-handling-set-9-360.htmland one of thesehttp://www.pkelektronik.com/esd-tischmatte-610-x-1220-mm-platingrau.htmlThey are both very good quality, but I would suggest to go for the second one because it is really very rugged. The Bernstein one is softer and therefore can easier be scratched.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 10:12:00 pm
content: what about Digi-Key ?http://www.digikey.de/product-search/de?x=0&y=0&lang=de&site=de&KeyWords=16-1097-ND90x60 cm, 1.5 mm thickness, Statfree T2™ rubber, bottom side is conductive (<10^4 Ohm), top side dissipative (10^6...10^9 Ohm)for just 75.77 EUR (you pay the VAT of your country when it arrives, unless 75 EU is too small an amount for them to care)Oh, and orders above 65 EUR get free shipping, usually with UPS.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 10:34:15 pm
content: Quote from: amiq on January 26, 2013, 07:35:21 pmMouser are also happy to sell to anyone, anywhere, but the 3M mat is also available elsewhere.Quote from: Neganur on January 26, 2013, 10:12:00 pmUPS don't handle VAT, so you'll have to pay that on delivery. The nice thing about Mouser is that they will pay all duty and customs fees if you choose FedEx for delivery.

author: Matje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 11:19:53 pm
content: Quote from: Axel1973 on January 26, 2013, 07:22:36 amNo, Dave didn't show no such thing. He did show that the measurement equipment he used can not measure the resistance of his mat (neither can mine for mine).These mats obviously need to conduct, just a little bit (because the charges they deal with are so small), to work. The resistances are in the range of GOhms.Quote from: Axel1973 on January 26, 2013, 07:22:36 amRead up a bit on that. If you think you can reliably have GOhms between two pins of your average circuit board - you will be surprised, badly. Also, Dave had a video about "orders of magnitude", very useful to consider in this cricumstances.No, it will not affect your circuits, except you do really weird stuff, using weird tech, in which case you would (need to) know everything about it already.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 11:43:24 pm
content: Quote from: andersm on January 26, 2013, 10:34:15 pmI don't remember how things work in Germany anymore, but here in Finland UPS sends me an invoice for the VAT within a week of delivery. I preferred FedEx too, when buying from Mouser.

author: Narmaraktuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 09:55:14 am
content: I bought mine fromwww.et-esd.de. A black 610x900mm mat, with a non conductive heat resistant surface and a conductive bottom for 24 EUR. Including an 5 EUR "erdungskabel", transport to the Netherlands and VAT it came to 65 EUR.(They say they don't sell to private persons, but I just went ahead and ordered...)

author: uwe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 10:44:21 am
content: What about ebay?http://www.ebay.de/itm/321060449092looks quite nice.:q! Uwe

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 11:09:45 am
content: QuoteNot sure how true this is in continental Europe but in the UK I haven't found anybody who won't sell to me because I'm not VAT registered. The threshold in the UK is a turnover of £77k which means that a hell of a lot of single trader businesses are going to be under that figure.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 11:20:00 am
content: Haven't met any that will not deal with single purchase customers, even RS ( who are not interested in rats and mice business really) will sell direct. most will just want CWO or direct deposit, before they ship.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 11:26:13 am
content: QuoteYeah, it's probably as hard as ever (or harder) to get a credit account, but everyone has a CC these days and for online orders with payment up front there's little risk. You just have to watch MOVs & MOQs (Farnell is only £20 though).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 11:45:18 am
content: There is a lot of fraud with direct deposits, you get a lot of scammers who will do a deposit, fax through a modified slip ( instead of a cheque which is rubber they edit to show a cash deposit) or do an EFT that will bounce. We wait for the next day for it to appear on the statement, and to confirm the deposit type is correct, before sending. Especially be aware of those that "accidentally" deposit too much and ask for a refund with the goods.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2013, 12:31:35 pm
content: Quote from: Narmaraktuk on January 27, 2013, 09:55:14 amAwesome store, but they seem torequirea tax ID number when you register?

author: Narmaraktuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 07:51:09 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on January 27, 2013, 12:31:35 pmSorry missed your question by 2 months..I think I left that blank and it still allowed me to continue, but they may have changed the store if that does not work anymore.