If you were starting all over... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 10:56:39 pm
content: Which platform would you choose? Let's assume price was no object, there are no concerns about backward compatibility with old designs etc, which PCB/EDA package would you choose to invest your time learning and using for the long run?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 11:23:56 pm
content: I don't know. IMHO there isn't just one good package since people's taste and requirements differ (even when the price of the package is taken out of the equation).

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 11:33:31 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 04, 2015, 11:23:56 pmThat's why I asked what **YOU** would choose, not someone else whose taste and requirements are unknown to you.I'm trying to see if there's a pattern among experienced EDA users towards certain platforms, if they were freed from any inertia/financial concerns keeping them using their existing software.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 02:06:49 am
content: Price no object? The most expensive one you've never heard of (because NDAs, etc.). Easy way to blow $100k+. Upsides include full multiphysics (E&M and thermal simulation?), access to good SPICE models (probably something well beyond SPICE, and multicored for a change), monolithic integration (schematic / auto-generating of IC components? HDL?), etc. Downsides are the sheer immenseness of the package, and probably the difficulty in using it (sadly, user experience typically tracksinverselywith software cost, a very bizarre correlation indeed).Tim

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 09:18:41 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on August 04, 2015, 11:33:31 pmI'd try a few packages and then make a choice. But my choice would be based on what I have learned from using the package I'm using right now and experience with different packages I don't like. I'm pretty sure many people are sort of satisfied with their CAD packages until they need more power or suddenly discover a different package allows them to do a layout more quickly.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 03:05:46 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on August 04, 2015, 10:56:39 pmFree software, because it is finished software and it won't die. Commercial software is always worked on until it is sell-able, and that's usually all unless it's so bad it ruins the market share. For bugs they simply cannot care. Free software supported by the community is inevitably more stable, and continuously polished for ease of use. The workforce fixing free software is too large for any company to hire, even if they could. If they could afford it, they wouldn't see it as worthwhile on a returns basis. So commercial software always blows compared to free software.Then there is the lifetime. free software just doesn't die the way companies do. The community can't be put into liquidation or dissolve and sack their programmers, and no CEO can make a decision to cease supporting a package. Other people can simply FORK free software as they please.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 04:50:52 pm
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 13, 2015, 03:05:46 pmthat is a bunch of hootsorry but so many "free" packages are neglected when the drivers (developers) find new interests. Only very few "prestige" projects can maintain a solid "stable" of contributors. But trawl through SourceFraud or Github and you will see plenty of big projects with hardly any development if any at all.So yes free software does die - and probably dies as often as paid for software.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 05:46:47 pm
content: you just make fallacy. you don't like it but cannot make even one single reason at all to discredit free software. I guess I should be impressed with my ability to convey what I like about free software when the best argument against is not an argument at all, but a fallacy.Free software only stops development when the people don't want it anymore, maybe because of something free which is better.Commercial software is stopped because the greedy CEO wants more money for his next steaming pile of $^%&obviously one is better than the other. Free is always better quality.Look at what I draw with free software called "blender", I draw this for my 3D printer to print. I'll render a picture for you and mix it with picture with more free software, GIMP.Other people use blender to draw other things. This cartoon is drawn with the same software I use, "blender". The software features go on until eternity beyond your imagination where no company on planet can afford to make such comprehensive software, ever. Just too expensive to make.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 05:52:24 pm
content: You can copy that cartoon and give it to your friends, it's free. The black ring over the water is to stop chickens making the sound "BEEP BEEP BEEP" when they pretend to be a garbage truck reversing and dumping some load of garbage. The black ring stops the chicks reversing over the water. They can't play basketball just yet, still too small.Because anyone and everyone can use the software, the people who have interest is large. Free means no money yes, but free means freedom too.Freedom from restriction. No license, no 'per machine' headache. Everyone has freedom to have an interest and give a suggestion or a bug report which helps make the universe of software better. Not possible when the boss will not hire 5 million people to test software and give ideas, boss too cheap to care, if crap sells, and windowz does, then they just sell, they never ever fix it first, or during use, or anytime. Once it is on the shelf they stop work.So if I have TEN Million dollars budget for software, I choose free software every time because I am smart. Only salesman argue with this, but what can they say ? I don't know.

author: K6TR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 05:34:46 am
content: GlowingGhoul I would make the same decision. I would go with Dip Trace. The price is very reasonable and the Software has excellent growth potential. I see it drawing off a considerable portion of Eagle Users once the product has matured and their support mechanisms for the ab-initio user develop.The Super Platforms, Altium Designer and ORCAD, offer extravagant tools that can do anything. But only a business need and a very substantial one could justifying purchasing a license for either package. There isn't a path to grow into either Application. In the case of Altium Circuitmaker and Circuit Studio are dead ends.Circuitmaker is free and I will download it. But I will only put time into it as my free time permits.Eagle is pretty much the same score and I will eventually download the Freeware version of it but I don't have any long term plans for it.Circuit Studio is a waste of money and a dead-end. It doesn't provide you with much more insight into the operation Designer than Circuitmaker furnishes.The biggest factor in my long term plans revolves around the OS they will be operating on. Now that Windows 10 has been released and all of its intrusive invasions into the user's privacy has been revealed it has solidified my plans to dump Windows. In 2020 when Windows 7 Support ceases I am history Bill Gates and company are getting the heave-ho. I plan to start looking at various Linux OSs in the next few months and proceed to test them beginning in October I hope to settle on a replacement sometime in the middle of 2016. Part of the selection process is finding a platform that will run Dip Trace. The folks at Dip Trace say their software will run on Linux. What platform and how well remains to be seen. To that end I will download an investigate both gEDA and Kicad. Long Term I would like to have a PCB Design Tool that is especially designed for Linux as a backup to DIP Trace. I intend for Dip Trace to stay my Primary PCB Design Tool but installing a familiarizing myself with a LINUX based system will be where I spend the bulk of the extra time.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 07:45:54 am
content: As many people from my generation, I've started with Eagle. Right now I'm recommending Diptrace to anybody who asks about entry level eda package. It's available for free and extended licenses are not expensive (relatively - the most pimped out, unlimited everything version is like $1.5k).If shooting for something that a potential employer would need: Altium is the best choice I think.Other more expensive packages like PADS, Cadstar, CR5000, Orcad and such often have so any features, that companies need a separate team to manage all the CAD related stuff.Wys?ane z mojego GT-I9100 przy u?yciu Tapatalka

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 12:12:00 pm
content: If I was starting over hmmmmmm:-At work I started with Wintek's Smartwork as a step up from laying tape's on a whiteboard (thank god I just missed those days!).Shortly after we upgraded to Wintek's HiWireII which I liked a lot (I knew nothing else). I did try other packages at the time but there were just too expensive, but taking the cost out of the equation I would have liked to have used Protel 99 SE back in the day.Roll the clock forward, I would have loved to have been able to use/afford Altium Designer............but, I am actually quite happy with Eagle having tried some of the usual suspects over the past few years.I don't recommend any specific package to newbies, I just give them a list and tell them to download a few and see which one gels with them.Ian.

author: jmarkwolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 11:44:27 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on August 15, 2015, 12:12:00 pmWow, does that take me back!My first PCB was with tape. My second PCB was with Smartwork in the early 80's.Then I started using AutoCAD v2.6 for DOS (needed a math co-processor for quick redraw speed). Made my own library components with multiple layers, etc.Then OrCad, then PADS2000, then Protel v6 through the various updates, then Altium for most of my career. Recently purchased Circuit Studio for when I retire and consult.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 02:23:55 pm
content: if i had ot start all over again i would have become a hammock tester.i would test them 6 weeks in hawaaii , 6 weeks in tahiti , 6 weeks in fiji , 6 weeks on the maldives. maybe try a few on a boat touring the great barrier reef ...

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 04:23:12 pm
content: Quote from: jmarkwolf on September 14, 2015, 11:44:27 amHere you go then.....:-)It's the primary reason I still use red/green as my primary layer colours to this day!Ian.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 04:31:15 pm
content: YES Smartwork kicked ass back in the days. the only tool that woudl automtically shave pads when you ran a trace between them.f1 place pad, f2 remove pad f3 place trce f4 remove trace f5 wide / small tracedip e 40 600draw a dip package eastward 40 pins 600 mil row pitch...those were the days....

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 04:37:39 pm
content: Damn it, I remember thatSMARTWORK!I really loved how Protel 98/99 were simple to use back then. I think that would be my preferred package due to its simplicity. Despite Altium has the same basic functionality, the added collaboration/team functionality is very intimidating.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2015, 11:04:23 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 14, 2015, 04:31:15 pmYup, and only when you plotted the pcb if I remember correctly.Came on two 5.25" floppies, one off which had to be in the drive at all times......if I remember correctly!Ian.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2015, 08:13:56 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on August 04, 2015, 10:56:39 pmBack in '07 when I started my business, I chose Eagle. Tried the freeware version and liked it. Bought the commercial Pro license for the schematic and pcb designer. My #1 priority was the software has to run under OSX (or X11). I just refuse to use Windows for my own personal stuff, don't want it's time wasting, losing productivity dealing with all it's problems and always worrying about getting a virus. (I do use Windows server.... for my paying clients. The more problems I have to fix in Windows, the better for me.) Back then, I tried other CAD packages and only Eagle fits my needs well.** I do remember using OrCAD though back in the late 80s (in college), running on a 80286 PC with math co-processor and SVGA monitor.Fast forward 2015... I'm still using Eagle, very productive and fast with it. I've created a lot of custom parts library, and it's a no brainer slapping a circuit together. I can copy and paste from my different projects the subcircuit modules I need, and presto... a finished design. But I'm still on version 5.xBut I'm learning KiCad right now, and may try to use it to build a small board/project just to get my feet wet with it. I don't know yet if I'll switch completely to KiCad, but right now I'm keeping my options open. Again, having an OSX version of KiCad made me take a second look at it. If KiCad was Windows-only (or Linux only), it wouldn't be on my radar. OSX compatibility is a big must for me.