My phone's Li-Ion battery is getting bulged. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 07:28:01 pm
content: Hey, guys, the battery on my phone is getting bulged. I am concerned about this. I have hear they can explode if they become bulged. What can happen?I think I have an excuse for a new phoneThanks,Ivan

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 07:54:32 pm
content: Bulging is a defect suggesting overheating; it caused by gas production. You should replace the battery and discard that battery properly, do not even use it as a spare.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 08:02:31 pm
content: Emphasis on disposing of the battery properly: putting it in the bin is a bad idea as it could catch fire, setting your house alight. Put it in an airtight metal container, outside your house and take it to the appropriate place for proper disposal.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 08:26:06 pm
content: i've many occasion of this. the solution is buy a new battery, apart from degraded performance, it didnt fit in the mobile batt compartment anymore. and most of the occasion i just throw them in the dustbin later to be dumped at dump site. explode or not, they are going to catch fire anyhow at the dump site. on one or two occasion, i did open up the bulged batt, i got nothing just a stinky black chemical and aluminum foils.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 08:27:25 pm
content: Bulging can be a sign of a manufacturing defect or of poor charger design. Neither of which you have much control over. Apple had a lot of trouble with bulging batteries in some of their MacBooks I believe, and I imagine they went to some trouble to reduce the risk of that happening due to the cost of returns and replacement under warranty.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 08:43:51 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 25, 2011, 08:02:31 pmI will contact my carrier company. I think they and two out of four popular supermarket chains have a recycling programs and initiatives, but the state doesn't!. <--- Don't quote me on that.Thanks to all.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 08:47:04 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 25, 2011, 08:26:06 pmyes well where you live they obviously don't care about the environment, in other countries we supposedly dispose of them properly (what happens after we put then in a seperate bin is out of our control)

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 09:20:35 pm
content: To safely dispose of a lithium cell in the garbage stream.... simply discharge the battery in a safe manner... Use a reasonable load such as an automotive light bulb and perform the discharge outdoors on concrete/stone away from anything that might catch fire should the cell erupt. I just toss a clay flowerpot over top of the pack, just in case it decides to misbehave. Once the battery charge is reduced to 0V, there is no more stored energy and it can be safely disposed of in the garbage (but it can NEVER be SAFELY recharged again!). There are no nasty heavy metals to worry about, or major toxins. IF, for some reason, you MUST dispose of a rechargeable lithium cell/pack without discharging because it's in an unsafe condition to do so. You should cover the terminals with several layers of electrical tape or some such to avoid any accidental shorting out. This is usually required when turning in such cells/packs for recycling. The problem with this is that if you toss such a battery in the garbage and it somehow gets bent or pierced/cut in the garbage truck compactor, it could start a fire right then and there.One thing that should be avoided is charging devices that use lithium batteries, while they are still turned on. I realize some of us just can't bear the thought of missing a txt or phone call, but the fact that a device is still turned on during charging, can cause the charger to miscalculate and overcharge the battery which can lead to swelling or worse.... vent with flame! Ditto, it's best to purchase the correct replacement cell and not a Chinese cheapy from Ebay, as they may not have the proper safety circuits or even be manufactured to the same safety standards as the original unit which was chosen by the engineer who designed that circuit.One other thing regarding making batteries last in cell phones and the like. Don't run them down until the phone switches off and then charge them back up... This is very hard on a lithium battery. They much prefer shallow discharge/charge cycles and you would be better off charging the battery every day (just do it with the phone turned off, eh!), instead of once or twice a week when it dies.RegardsChristian

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 09:54:06 pm
content: Quote from: kaptain_zero on August 25, 2011, 09:20:35 pmIt's my understanding that the non-aqueous electrolyte in a lithium ion or lithium polymer cell is flammable (this is what produces the fireworks when a cell erupts), and the smoke from a burning cell is toxic. So a cell could burn even when discharged, and if it does happen to catch fire indoors you should open all the windows and leave the room until the smoke has cleared. Charged cells burn very vigorously because the heat from the stored energy discharge accelerates the combustion of the organic electrolyte.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 10:27:28 pm
content: The widely accepted "safe" way to defuse a puffed lithium cell is to throw it in a bucket of brine (salt (NaCl) and water solution) overnight or until it stops bubbling from the exposed terminals.The conductivity of the salt solution allows a safe discharge and, once the cell/battery is discharged, it poses no fire risk.Those of us who fly RC models use this technique to dispose of any potentially pyro packs

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 11:51:46 pm
content: Scream "Fire in the hole!" and lob it somewhere far, far away.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 11:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: Hypernova on August 25, 2011, 11:51:46 pmErr... Sure, I guessFIRE IN THE HOLE!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2011, 04:04:15 pm
content: Quote from: RCMR on August 25, 2011, 10:27:28 pmDoesn't electrolysis of an aqueous NaCl solution produce toxic chlorine gas and a caustic NaOH solution?If you do that, only do so in a well ventilated area and neutralise the solution with vinegar afterwards.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2011, 04:10:29 pm
content: I thought the water would get split into H and O2 and the salt was left alone although I am basing that on using sulfuric acid as the "catalyst" and of course with that much salt maybe the salt reacts much more too

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2011, 06:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 26, 2011, 04:04:15 pmIn theory, yes, with a concentrated brine solution and a high electrolysis current applied for a long time. However, when discharging a cell in the manner described there won't be enough of anything produced to be concerned about, although the container should be left outside so any gases can disperse. When using low voltages and more dilute brine solutions you are more likely to get oxygen at the anode than chlorine, but the hydrogen gas from the cathode poses a theoretical (albeit tiny) explosion risk.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2011, 06:44:35 pm
content: Quote from: kaptain_zero on August 25, 2011, 09:20:35 pmThis might not work with packs that have internal protection. (not the raw cells but the assembled packs). A protection circuit will usually disconnect the battery pack output in the event the cells approch deep discharge.Neil

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2011, 10:59:07 pm
content: Good point, I was thinking hobby type lipo packs while I was writing that, which do not have protection circuits. When dealing with single cells such as 18650 or 14400 and such that have a protection circuit at the negative end, I've always peeled off the protection circuit before discharging. Packs with protection circuits could be more difficult.Regarding the saline solution method of discharging..... I have read (no personal experience here) that there have been reports of the lipo cell tabs, which are just thin foil really, corroding off before the cell has been completely discharged. This being true or not, when disposing of those flat lipo packs, I use a more traditional load, such as a light bulb, to drain the cell and then check to make sure it's dead before I dispose of it.I think the important thing is that lithium cells should be drained to a verified 0V potential to eliminate the dangers of the stored charge should the cell be ruptured or damaged in some way.RegardsChristian

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2011, 12:15:22 am
content: I had stop to throw away mobile phone batteries.Even the old ones, I just recharge it with current limiter at 200mA at 4.2VAnd serves me nicely, at operating this old flashlight

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2011, 12:40:55 am
content: I have not seen one of those 4.5V flashlights in a long long time.Common in EU, unheard of in NA...RegardsChristian

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2011, 01:25:23 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 26, 2011, 04:10:29 pmNo the salt actively participates in the reaction.When NaCl is dissolved in water, it breaks up into ions: Na+and Cl-. When a current is passed through the solution, the positive ions are attracted to the cathode and negative ions to the anode where they gain or loose electrons respectively and are released from the solution. In this case the sodium reacts with the water to form sodium hydroxide: 2Na + 2H2O -> 2NaOH + H2.Water doesn't even need to be present to perform electrolysis on NaCl. Metallic sodium is produced by heating the salt above its melting point and performing electrolysis in an inert atmosphere.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2011, 02:00:34 pm
content: No need to debate on which one is the correct reaction, I am going to buy a new phone today and tell them to dispose my battery.Thanks, guys, you always help me get out of trouble.