$5 Raspberry Pi "Zero" ! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 10:47:27 am
content: Raspberry Pi has announced a new, "reduced" RPi. 1GHz CPU and 512MB RAM, HDMI, USB. $5. (Missing is Ethernet, camera, digital display interface. Only 1 USB OTG port.)https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFFQmdUc5Vg&feature=youtu.be&aDamn! Not in stock, and some vendors (newark) list a price rather higher than $5. But still...

author: briandorey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:08:58 am
content: Farnell in the UK are charging £11 + vat for it!

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:30:52 am
content: Out of stock on Adafruit, is this a viable contender to Arduinos?

author: GNU_Ninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:34:33 am
content: Might nip out and pick one up at lunchtimehttps://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero

author: GNU_Ninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:42:43 am
content: Quote from: GNU_Ninja on November 26, 2015, 11:34:33 amOr NOT. They've sold out too

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:46:50 am
content: This is big news. I was starting to learn ARM RTOS programming, but now I'm beginning to think why bother? I know Unix/Posix programmimg, and now there's a few options for single board computers running linux under $10Pi Zero + $3-4 8G SD card.$9 CHIP ($8 on Cyber Monday)$7 RT5350 router sticks (only 32MB NOR flash)

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:51:47 am
content: They didn't bother putting unpopulated pads on for a 4 pin header for internal USB cabling or to feed it 5V.However, *IF* anyone's got a USB NDIS device driver for the Broadcom SOC, to tether it to a PC to provide connectivity and control via VNC or a terminal, it would be rather cute as a breadboarding module with two right angle headers soldered in with 0.3" separation so it simply plugs in on edge with a smaller footprint than a 40 pin DIP. At that price point, you don't worry too much about protecting it.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:52:22 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on November 26, 2015, 11:30:52 amDepends on what you want to do, the main issues against using a Pi are:- long startup time (+/- 30 seconds and more),- have to move the logging and other stuff to RAM in order to be able to enable hard power off (otherwise you have to shutdown each time and wait)- difficult to have high frequency pin manipulationIf you want to do anything IP connected it is the way to go IMO.

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 12:40:16 pm
content: The Pi can boot in under 3s.https://m.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/25119y/30_second_boot_times_on_the_raspberry_pi_advanced/

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 12:52:53 pm
content: I think micro hdmi would've been better. Smaller footprint, and it is common on tablets so the adaptersare easy to find.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 01:45:15 pm
content: I dont think it would have been that much more expensive to include a full sized HDMI and USB. I have the feeling that they always go for the minimum advertisement price for the board.If I would be designing a cheap Pi, it would be with a 8 Gb eMMC, Wifi, 2 USB A and a micro for power and data, HDMI, hat connector.That would fit into almost the same size, the price would be probably like 10-10 USD. BTW doesnt this Broadcom chip have RMII or anything for normal ethernet?

author: farsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 02:14:16 pm
content: No Ethernet?I don't like shuffling SD Cards to play with new packages.How would you handle system updates?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 02:30:08 pm
content: As the Broadcom SOC only has a single USB port, you cant have Ethernet without a USB hub and USB ethernet controller (or a combined one like the B/B+ use)The great pity is: because of the popularity of the B/B+ which hides the theoretically OTG capable USB port of the SOC behind a LAN9512 combined USB hub and Ethernet controller, there are no device mode USB drivers for the PI which would otherwise let you run model A, the compute module and the new 'Zero' headlessly, tethered to a PC for control and networking.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 02:38:17 pm
content: Can;t someone just plug a usb-hub and then a WiFi or ethernet card?Alexander.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 03:11:58 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on November 26, 2015, 02:38:17 pmSure, but by the time you've hung a powered hub off it and a USB Ethernet adapter, you might as well have bought a PI 2. As I said earlier this would win if you could tether it to a PC for development then run it standalone for the final application.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 03:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 26, 2015, 03:11:58 pmYes. My point is that everyone has a usb wifi card and a usb hub lying around. Could as well use those for development.Alexander.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 04:33:46 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 26, 2015, 02:13:57 pmRandom search on Digikey throw me a 1.3 dollar SMD type A and a 0.3 dollar HDMI, without TH locking. I didnt try hard, they could get better prices at millions QTY. I don think you can reliably automatically surface mount it. That would need milled holes on the side.I really dont like 10 cm converter cables, they make a mess.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 04:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 26, 2015, 11:52:22 amI read somewhere there is problems doing bare metal on PI boards due to proprietary "things" from BCM...OS less, to be able to wiggle legs faster with precision times. So without the ability to do things which isnormal on a STM32, Pi is close to usless. No?

author: Gurpreet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 06:46:33 pm
content: What do you guys think about this cute little computer which only costs $5 US ... Mind blown.https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 07:07:17 pm
content: For a full computer you need extra cables, power supply, a display, a keyboard and a mouse. Probably cheaper to buy a used laptop on eBay. But for embedded projects it looks very cool. They even added the mounting holes, which they forgot for their first Raspberry Pi A version.100 times better than an Arduino, but for a fraction of the cost. I guess now any other small microcontroller board will have a hard time. Has someone already ported a hard-realtime Linux for it? Oh, there is already FreeRTOS for Raspberry Pi, nice.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 07:19:09 pm
content: I dunno. If I want some embedded controller, I don't want to mess around with Linux.Then again, Linux is the easiest way to implement something like a webserver but this thing doesn't have an ethernet port.Still the price is nice and at least you don't waste much money if you buy it just to put it in the shelf - were most of the Pis, Odroids etc. land anyway for 80% of the buyers

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 08:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on November 26, 2015, 07:19:09 pmLet's see some stats to back this claim up. I've heard this for years, every time a new Beagle or Pi comes out, yet I'm kind of inclined to think it's people projecting and pulling stats out of their asses.Just because you never used yours, doesn't mean others didn't.The huge numbers of add-on boards, tutorials, projects and questions on forums lead me to believe that people are buying them and using them for specific projects, even if only as a media server.Now they're $5. (Fun Fact: The latest physical issue of The MagPi will *include* a free Pi Zero on the cover of the magazine.)At $5 we could give one to every child in the US and it would be a drop in the hat in terms of the educational budget.At $5, the thing costs less than you'd pay for postage on an Arduino clone from China!$5 for a tiny 1GHz ARM computer. To put that in perspective, I was born in 1984; the Motorola 68020 had just come out, at nearly $500/ea and the i386DX was still a year away, which would cost $300/ea. Keep in mind, that's just the prices for the CPUs. Just in my lifetime, we've come from that to entire computers, on a chip, for five, crisp $1 bills.It blows my fucking mind.Sent from my Tablet

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 08:31:34 pm
content: Quote from: MT on November 26, 2015, 04:49:46 pmYou can do bare metal on a Pi. Awhile back, some guy wrote an entire 3D demo bare metal.Sent from my Tablet

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 10:43:49 pm
content: 22Mhz GPIO is a lot faster than an Arduino Uno can do.http://codeandlife.com/2012/07/03/benchmarking-raspberry-pi-gpio-speed/

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 11:06:17 pm
content: Right, you could give one to every child in the US, but they would still need the extra hardware to use it as a computer. I guess most children already have a smartphone now, which doesn't cost much if you buy it used. If you want to help with education, write good software for it.Arduinos from China usually are shipped with no shipping cost. There are even products for $1.88, likethiswith free shipping.And I think 0xdeadbeef is right, most Arduinos will end in the shelf, maybe after some playing with it. I have two Raspis here and I used it forhelping developing the I2C driverin 2012 when it was new and this was missing (now part of the official Linux kernel), and for some weekend projects, likethis programmeror todisplay something on e-paper. But most of the time it is indeed on the shelf, unpowered. Might do some interenet connected logging project someday with it, for which the new model would be best. You could use a cheap USB Wifi stick for network connection and it doesn't need a keyboard or display.But until February this year 5 million Raspberry Pis were sold. If there are only 20% active users, this would be one million users and this is the reason why you find so much extra hardware for it, and forum posts etc.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 12:14:51 am
content: Duplicate?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/$5-raspberry-pi-'zero'-!

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 12:51:09 am
content: Has anyone in the UK seen this MagPi magazine stockedanywhere?I don't fancy a wild goose chase trying to score a freebie Pi/0

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 02:16:09 am
content: Wow! Thanks for the heads up.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 05:15:57 am
content: It almost looks like 2 layer pcb???as always every vendor tries to scam (element14 almost $20 for bare Zero lol), adafruit even removed $5 entry from the shop entirelyNeed to wait couple of months for volume to catch up and scammers to settle down.I wonder if Avago had anything to do with it. Maybe its Foundation trying to show Broadcom new bosses this thing can move volume? At this price they can easily sell couple of millions in few months (original Pee sold 1 mil in first year).Imo its a great decision by Pee foundation, they were being pushed aside by chinese ARM boards and ESP. With this they get to claim hackers crown again.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 08:01:04 am
content: QuoteThat's more like "bursts of 22MHz signals." FTA:Quote(Of course, the Arduino GPIO loops are subject to interruptions as well...)I'll have to admit that I don't quite understand the purpose of driving the "core" price down so far below the price of the infrastructure you need to use it.I mean, it's nice for the hackers that want to throw this thing into a kiosk, or use it as a video controller for <anything>, or who are otherwise well-equipped with leftover parts from their legacy of desktops. But I don't see how it helps the supposed "target market" of people who thought that $35 was "too expensive."I wonder how the BBC "Micro:Bit" people feel about this? It's almost like there is a war going on: "Kids should learn how to do real embedded programming." "No, no one will need to do that. They just need to learn linux!"

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 09:42:01 am
content: Quote from: westfw on November 27, 2015, 08:01:04 amFunny that you mention this because it is exactly the discussion we now have in our company.With embedded linux devices getting this dirt cheap and IoT devices needing more ROM/RAM (double each year at this moment in our product portfolio) I really see a shift towards cheap connected emb. linux devices.If that is a good thing, I dunno, there will allways be ultra cheap stuff that needs M0 core cheapo hardware but lets face it , China and India can also do this for less money then the european countries. It is all in the intelligence, the first of a kind products and emb. linux is as easy and cheap as an embedded device at the moment.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 10:30:08 am
content: I was ready to order one from Adafruit, but they only have them on bundles, which are at least USD 29.99 for the Zero + lots of cables I already have. They have the bundles in stock, but no standalone Zeros. Fishy.

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 03:05:18 pm
content: I've seen many AVR projects that do not requre hard realtime and would be much easier with an embedded Linux box like a Pi. For example I saw a sprinkler controller done with an AVR. The time support in avr-libc is not in the release version, so time operations like DST are much harder than in unix.I'm guessing many of the Zeros will be used for retropie boxes though...

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 03:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on November 27, 2015, 08:01:04 amhttp://www.icrobotics.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Turning_the_Raspberry_Pi_Into_an_FM_TransmitterSo the only way to get no OS interruptions to hard real time user functions is to write kernel modules, patches to kerneland/or use a RTAI?! Gee, now i have to learn the inner workings of Linux and Linux itself, it never ends!

author: gojimmypi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 06:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: farsi on November 26, 2015, 02:14:16 pmcheck out the pictures on page 9 of the pdf version of Magpi Issue 40:https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi-issues/MagPi40.pdfThere's a usb port for power, and anotherQuote

author: gojimmypi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 06:32:47 pm
content: Quote from: Gurpreet on November 26, 2015, 06:46:33 pmI think it is an AWESOME way to get more young people learning about computers. I recall a conversation with a local high school teacher that expressed frustration in the cost of buying 30 Raspberry Pi's for her class.FIVE BUCKS for a computer?? That's so cool. "Free with purchase of magazine". How crazy is that?WOOHOO for the Raspberry Pi team!

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 06:51:21 pm
content: How feasible would a function generator (up to 5Mhz) be with a Zero?

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 07:42:27 pm
content: Quote from: ralphd on November 27, 2015, 03:05:18 pmDo you know what hard real-time means? It has nothing to do with time functions or DST handling. It means guaranteed maximum event response time. For example WindowsCE is a hard real-time system. As you can see in the report which is linked fromthis blog article, maximum interrupt latency is 19.9 us for the system they analyzed. This means it guarantees this reaction time for external events, if you use the highest interrupt priority and write your own driver for it. Might be sufficient for many applications. But the max interrupt latency of an AVR is much better than 1 us and you don't have uncertainties because of caches. Depending on your application it doesn't matter or it is essential.The standard Linux kernel is not a hard real-time system. If a Linux driver interrupt interrupts your application or lower priority interrupt, it might block for milliseconds or longer and can ruin your day. But there is areal-time config setting for the Linux kernel. This allows you to write hard real-time applications. I don't know if it already works on the Raspberry Pi and how much the worst interrupt latency would be.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 08:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on November 27, 2015, 07:42:27 pmSome time ago I played around a bit with the kernel fromEmlid. The benchmark latencies were excellent and stable compared to the stock kernel, but under load the network driver started bugging out. Driver stability is one of the big issues with preempt-rt kernels, you'll have to carefully tune and test the whole system and all devices you'll connect to it.

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 12:12:33 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on November 27, 2015, 07:42:27 pmSince when does a sprinkler system need hard realtime?

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 12:46:35 am
content: Quote from: gojimmypi on November 27, 2015, 06:32:47 pmTeachers complaining about the cost of a Pi, are confused. How much does it cost per student taking woodshop ?Most schools have "labs" running MS office.Because 4th graders using powerpoint" is a high tech skill.Boot them up from a memory stick with linux and have at it.And if the district IT department has the USB ports disabled, thats a district problem not a Pi price problem.Come to think of it, you can run Python on windows, you don't even need linux for that.Yeah...there are problems and there are problems.I wonder what mysteries of science can be taught using a Pi for each student that cannot be taught without."Teachers".....

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 02:39:45 am
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 27, 2015, 06:51:21 pmQuite easy, and well over 5Mhz.https://github.com/F5OEO/rpitx

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 08:37:41 am
content: Quote from: MT on November 27, 2015, 03:11:44 pmthis doesnt bitbang gpio, it enables 100mhz PLL output on one pin and modulates its frequency = FM modulated radio transmitterQuote from: AlxDroidDev on November 27, 2015, 06:51:21 pmshould be doable with preempt kernel to avoid jitteror you could reuse DPI video interface (parallel video), DPI simply dumps contents of the framebuffer into gpio pins, only problem might be blanking (unless you can set blanking/backporch to 0 on the pee)Quote from: FrankBuss on November 27, 2015, 07:42:27 pmfrom hackaday:"With a PREEMPT_RT Linux kernel you can get (worst case) ~150 microsecond determinacy from user space C/C++ code on the RPi 1."https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/497has a scope screenshot, looks pretty goodQuote from: DimitriP on November 28, 2015, 12:46:35 amcuriosity, enthusiasm, passionits one thing doing something on boring beige box school computer, its completely another to be given your own bare pcb "computer" loaded up with minecraft +python bindings and so much more.I hope zeo is a long term project, and not a ploy to get rid of old chips, or last scream before Avago kills whole thing.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 08:38:07 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on November 26, 2015, 11:06:17 pmUSB keyboards cost a couple of bucks on Amazon, if they need one at all. A lot of people have an extra one sitting around from an old computer.Pretty much everyone has a TV these days with HDMI, even poor people!Pretty much everyone has a drawer full of old cell phone bricks/USB wall cubes, so power is taken care of. Or the USB port on a TV.So, let's say $10 for a Pi, USB keyboard and HDMI cable. ($15 if you add an Ethernet dongle w/ built-in USB hub.)Sent from my Tablet

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 09:19:15 am
content: Its great for embedding a PI in applications that need its compact size and don't need much I/O apart from its GPIO port, and is certainly more entry level hacker friendly than the compute module.However, its nearly useless as a development system or general purpose computer without a powered hub as its only got a single low current USB port, like a model A, and cant be tethered to a PC as there are no USB device mode drivers.. Anyone serious will want keyboard, mouse, networking, and a card reader or other USB storage. Lets assume a seven port hub with a good enough PSU so the PI can be powered from one of the downstream ports. Then there's the adapter cables. The cost adds up quite quickly.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 10:31:19 am
content: QuoteThat's where we see it differently.If you want to be looking at a bare board while having adventures with minecraft and python , take off the cover and turn the box sideways....My point is they could still teach, it's just not as "sexy" when each student doesn't have "his/her own "computer", which in turn does nothing to elevate the school's or teacher's "status".Which is after all why students exist in the first place.They dont' just hand those blue ribbons to anyone who "just teaches"

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 11:51:01 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on November 28, 2015, 12:46:35 amIn schools here in Ireland they have the BIOS locked so people can't boot into other os's because everyone brings in linux sticks and erases the computers hard drives.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 12:30:08 pm
content: A bare board like the Zero is only really suitable for more advanced students.Schools tend to like solutions like FUZEhttp://www.fuze.co.uk/which occupies the educational niche that the BBC Micro machines and their Archimedes successors filled in the '80s and '90s.It isn't the initial setup cost, its the ongoing maintenance cost of a rats next of cabling and adaptors x25 - x30 in a typical classroom, in teaching and support staff time alone. The Zero *WILL* have a large impact on student projects - develop on a full PI, port it to a Zero, and get to keep it, but IMHO as long as it cant be tethered for easy cross-development from an existing PC, it will remain a niche product compared to Arduinos and BBC micro:bits.

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 02:52:42 pm
content: That FUZE looks so cool. But in this day and age BASIC should be banned.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 04:02:59 pm
content: It looks like its a structured Basic, so not too evil. If you've coded in a couple of flavours of Basic then tackle ANSI C, you will have developed the skills to switch to most procedural, non-OOP languages without much effort. Back in the '80s I used four different dialects of Basic, two of which were reasonably structured, and had K&R C compilers for my various home computers. I also dabbled in COBOL, but that's another matter . . . .Anyway, if you don't run FUZE Basic, its still a reasonably normal Pi.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 04:57:24 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on November 28, 2015, 08:37:41 amHad not checked up on that, so it is possibly to modulate the internal PLL, there must be more then one presumably, VGA etc.On ST devices one cant modulate PLL, registers is locked. Maybe one could modulate the RCO but the range is probably to small.QuoteBut reading the "real time" pages over Linux there is ton's of things that in the end seams to block Linux kernel from become a "true(what ever that is) a real, real-time "thing". Seams to be sort of a hack or another...something... well i don't know jack shitabut Linux...but anyway...........https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/HOWTO:_Build_an_RT-applicationQuoteBut that's terrible figures!QuoteHmm, if they had done this with the 2836 chip instead and let one core....... even if all code and data would hadrun from level1 cache this cpu is still not deterministic....No? Yes?QuoteIs'nt it kind of cheating badly to let kids of today start out by having an entire OS ready to learn coding?Should'nt they have to go the hard way learning coding by writing the actual OS them self's?Arn't the whole point of learning something is by doing it from scratch?How are they going to change the world with probable determinism of 150us, +/-100us?How far can a kid cheat and still get a grade? Why is teachers helping kids to cheat? Cant teachers write assembler?Is'nt the requirement to write assembler a must for a teacher?What is the point of this National things UK politiciansslammed through their parliament?!...... Im confused!

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 10:56:51 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on November 27, 2015, 07:42:27 pmsoft real time, I guess

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 10:57:27 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 28, 2015, 12:30:08 pmI wouldnt mind making those, that much profit!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 10:35:34 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 28, 2015, 02:54:25 pmAnd 8.5 digit multimeters. And some other measurement equipment. And a bunch of calculators. And a buch of other stuff where you never imagined that it can be programmed in basic as an "extra functionality".It takes less time to learn basic than watching a movie, and there is high chance you will at least once use it in your life.

author: Boomerang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 10:46:28 am
content: every programmer should be familiar with BASIC because he/she must be familiar with the evolution of the programming languages

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 06:28:54 pm
content: If we really wanted kids to understand computers, the class would have a field trip to the local eWaste/surplus dealer and each kid would pick out some "worthless" two-generations-old PC and associated components, and then the class would make them all work (running an appropriate version of linux, probably), and THEN they could install Python or Squeak or Basic and program it to do things. Of course, this would require a level of knowledge and individual attention that is not expected of today's teachers (because it really isn't practical.) So much easier to take the $200 kit that goes with the $5 hype, and comes with all the needed extra parts, curricula, training, and etc...(The real problem with computer education is the rate of churn. By the time you're comfortable teaching one thing, it's obsolete and you should be teaching something else. (I mean, how many people here - engineering professionals and "serious" hobbyists - are all switched over to Windows-10? How many are still running XP on at least some of their systems? Wanna know why Arduino is so successful? The flagship board has been essentially stable for nearly 10 years, and there's a large community of people who are "comfortable."))

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 10:00:37 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on November 30, 2015, 06:28:54 pmI think your on to something there. There is no real reason that artist and light hobbyist need to try and stay current with every new advancement in micro-controllers. Once they understand this Arduinoo "tool" and can make it do what they want, what need to they have to move on?That also allowed lots of years for the Arudino support infrastructure to grow including all those cheap Asian sensors and arduino accessories to say nothing of 10 years worth of contribution libraries whose quality ranges from yukky to pretty cool. It's been an interesting journey for Arduino and certainly there are a lot more and different kind on micro-controller users then before Arduino arrived.

author: GNU_Ninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 12:42:04 pm
content: Just came across this via the Sheffield Hardware Hackers & Makers e-newsletter.http://c4labs.net/products/zebra-zero-plus-for-raspberry-pi-zero-woodQuite a nice design, I think. Pity it only ships in the US

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 02:38:34 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on November 30, 2015, 06:28:54 pmI just heard on the local radio about US eWaste had rasied to stunning levels because of Black Friday and at this "happening" people bought the very cheapest of cheap Chinese made scratch pads but because of these having little memory 512MB and low intensity screens people dumped these almost instantly. These are often based on BCM2835. As it so happends kids can buy a 60 usd touch screen to their 5usd PI zero.http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/08/raspberry-pi-official-touchscreen-display/65 usd happens to be more then the asking price of these Black Friday "things", so field trip's to eWaste could be a god lesson in many ways!Do i have two XP's runing? Yes. Do i have win10? Absolutely no, to much of spyware thing.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 04:46:44 pm
content: Quote from: MT on December 02, 2015, 02:38:34 pmpropaganda, ear bait (radio clickbait), designed to grab attention by creating outragehttps://medium.com/@parkermolloy/5-things-the-media-does-to-manufacture-outrage-ba79125e1262#.z786qmwpahttp://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/03/outrage_clickbait_its_internet_dominance_is_about_to_fade.htmlQuote from: MT on December 02, 2015, 02:38:34 pmfor a special definition of "often" being NEVER

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 05:29:06 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on December 02, 2015, 04:46:44 pmIt is not propaganda, the info came directly from the ministry of information, truly reviewed by interviewing workers at eWaste centers.State radio here is advertising banned, its like north korea but friendlier, like west Germany!Hmm, eWaste centers in Us actually sell back the junk you just left! That's illegal here, instead we ship old refrigerators to Uganda!http://sandiego.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=usdewastehttp://www.sandiegoewaste.org/electronics-re-sale-store/QuoteSchhh, dont wreck the ongoing 5$ hype!

author: brobbuilder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 10:02:15 pm
content: MT, I think you're just sore you can't have a Pi Zero because you're in Sweden. I bet you threw away an old laptop or motherboard in the last two years, which used and created waste of more raw materials than 20 Pis.What is do bad about reselling old repaired ewaste? Would you prefer working refrigerators be buried in a dump so people poorer than you have no lowcost options? Everything on the site you listed is speakers, xboxes, telephones... What is the problem? Are you jealous that you can't buy an old game console for $45?It is all easily recycled. No reason to both litter the earth and throw away revenue to fix other infrastructure.Also, BCM2835/2836 are used only in Roku and video streaming gadgets, no Chinese-designed boards. Broadcom is very restrictive but also nicely cheap.

author: alho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 11:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: brobbuilder on December 03, 2015, 10:02:15 pmYes, very easily.

author: brobbuilder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:58:24 am
content: Quote from: alho on December 03, 2015, 11:28:53 pmNot that kind of recycling, ya racist Dingus. I mean by grinding it up and melting for raw materials. Sure, it's dirty, but the Pis are RoHS so there's no lead.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 06:01:24 am
content: Quote from: brobbuilder on December 03, 2015, 10:02:15 pmWhat a load of preconcepted/preconceived mumbojumbo! You really got butt hurt for "what" i dont know.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 12:08:53 pm
content: Since we've steered way off topic from the Pi Zero and are into electronics recycling, let me give my 2 cents: one man's trash is another mans treasure.A few months ago I got (for free) a few printers (ink jet, laser and dot matrix), and 4 fax machine, on a total of 15 devices. They were all gonna be trashed, end up in a dumpster somewhere. The owner, however, let me have them.I disassembled all of them, separating plastic, metal and whetever interested me: gears, displays, steppers, PCB, PSU, etc. The plastic and metal scraps were properly sent to specific recycling facilities. The PCBs were disassembled to remove whatever components I had interest in. I got a quite nice stash from these boards. The PSU boards were kept intact.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 05:18:29 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on December 04, 2015, 12:08:53 pmTell us when you will actually use a significant portion of them. Until then it's just hoarding, like that Australian used parts collector in Dave's episode.;-)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 09:19:40 pm
content: Quote from: alho on December 03, 2015, 11:28:53 pmI got all my replacement laptop GPUs from this lady! All factory new, sealed in neat reels and everything.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 12:57:24 pm
content: QuoteSeem to be a direction a portion of the market is headed to: OS-based "mcu" development. A trade off between high hardware cost for low software cost.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 05:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on December 05, 2015, 12:57:24 pmThe software is the top mask in the useful silicon manufacturing process. Cheap to customize.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 01:41:48 pm
content: Ok 0xdeadbeef, you must be an old Netware guy like me 😀As for amazement level, when I was born, computers took up full rooms, unless you had a PDP-8, in which case it took up part of a room. I was 11 when the TRS-80 Model 1 came out. $600 USD for a whopping 4K of RAM and 4K ROM. Ok, so it did include a keyboard. It ran at a blazing 1.78 MHz. This new Pi, while you do have to add a few thing to make it a 'real' computer, for $5 USD is simply incredible. Not quite 50 yet and already sawing wow, the stuff I've seen in my lifetime. Heck, I remember paying over a buck per plain red LED for some of my early projects.--Randy

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2016, 08:35:07 am
content: So anyone knows if the Pi Zero can be bought from somewhere or this was just an expensive advertisement campaign for the raspberry pi? I mean EVERY single newspaper talked about the "5 dollar" computer.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2016, 12:19:19 pm
content: You can monitor to see if anyone gets any stock here. Stock empties quickly, though.http://whereismypizero.com/There's no real profit in these so the urgency to ramp up production and get in more stock isn't all that strong, I'm sure.

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 03:26:00 pm
content: I'm curious, with all demand, in this modern day and age.. what is stopping them from churning enough out to satisfy demand? It seems like a common thing with Pi Foundation.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 03:30:54 pm
content: The fact they don't gain much, or most likely even lose on each sale. It was really just a promo tool IMO.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 03:32:24 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on March 22, 2016, 03:30:54 pmSell it for 6 bucks then. Or 10. Probably people would buy it still by the dozen.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 03:57:31 pm
content: But then it's not the shocking "$5 computer" anymore, and that symbol is the one thing that has allowed them to get the attention (and created the demand).From a marketing point of view they simply can't do that. Their only solution is to continue trickling those for the image, and if they actually want to do a "supercheap computer for the masses" for real this time they have to release yet a different product that offers a bit more to "justify" the price increase. Otherwise they'll be labeled as scammers within the minute. The line they're riding on is very thin, gotta do things right.

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 04:08:18 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on March 21, 2016, 08:35:07 amNo idea what is happening to future sales, I'dmaybesell you one, still boxed and unused from November last year, but only at a few orders of magnitude more than $5, not a case of profiteering, just it would leave a hole in my Raspberry Pi 'first day' collection dating right back to February 29th 2012, that would, on the evidence so far, be near impossible to refill.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:03:51 pm
content: Does this board (or any Pi for that matter) have a JTAG port for those of us who don't want to use Linux and want to program it at the bare metal level?

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 06:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on March 22, 2016, 05:03:51 pmYour a pain fan apparently.

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 08:06:34 pm
content: Yeah, probably they make a huge loss on the zero. but they needed it from the marketing side to counter the C.H.I.P.They should admit that and just sell it with a higher price instead of fooling all the waiting people, what a shame....

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 09:05:32 pm
content: I believe the issue with the Pi Zero was that the companies (Farnell and RS) who usually manufacture and market boards for the Raspberry Pi Foundation weren't interested, since the profit margin was too thin.As a result the manufacturing costs are being borne by the foundation directly, and they have limited resources. I think they do make a small profit, but can only afford to order a hundred thousand or so at a time. The foundation is of course a charity, so presumably profit is not their primary motivation.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 09:07:32 pm
content: Quote from: f4eru on March 22, 2016, 08:06:34 pmso you think 10 year old small and obsolete ddr2 ram and also very small also obsolete soc cost more than ~$3?

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 09:14:44 pm
content: Quote from: retrolefty on March 22, 2016, 06:52:52 pmI'm not a fan of pain, but I do enjoy a challenge.

author: michaeliv
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 10:30:06 pm
content: Anyone know or have theories on why it requires apoweredUSB hub ?I assume it limits current on the USB output ... why not just directly connect THE charge-USB VCC/GND to the data-USB VCC/GND ?

author: TonyD
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 01:04:51 am
content: Interesting to read that a 150,000 order has been placed for the Raspberry Pi Zero. More Details here:https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/raspberry-pi-zero-production-getting-on-track/

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 02:42:18 am
content: Quote from: TonyD on March 26, 2016, 01:04:51 ama month agother was an interview with eben after pee3 where he admitted they stopped zero production completely before the launch, and were planning to resume zeros after few months ...

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 02:34:57 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on March 22, 2016, 05:03:51 pmBCM dont let you know internal details to do "proper" bare metal.....as far as i have heard...

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 06:03:18 pm
content: Quote from: MT on March 26, 2016, 02:34:57 pmThere are quite a few examples otherwise in around the web likehttps://github.com/dwelch67/raspberrypi- or is having control of the CPU the cycle that reset is release "improper" bare metal

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 06:15:15 pm
content: You can play all you want with the CPU, but some of the "fancy" (i.e. interesting) peripherals like the VPU are only available through closed libs and thus obviously not documented publicly.

author: dnwheeler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 05:34:14 pm
content: If anyone is still looking for one in the U.S., Micro Center has Raspberry Pi Zeros in stock (and has almost continuously since they were released). The only catch is you can only get them as part of an accessory kit. The kit includes the Pi Zero, a Mini-HDMI to HDMI cable, a micro-USB On-The-Go cable, and a micro-USB power adapter.The kit costs $24.99 (USD), so there is definitely some "extra" profit in there, but it's not a bad price and most people starting with a Pi Zero will need the cables anyway.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 05:43:20 pm
content: Quote from: MT on March 26, 2016, 02:34:57 pmI wonder if this is going to change now that Avago have acquired Broadcom? I doubt it...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 12:01:48 pm
content: Quote from: dnwheeler on March 28, 2016, 05:34:14 pmThis whole marketing fluff around the "Zero" is very similar to theCHIP computer: very limited boards for the bare price. As I see it the Zero "as-is" can mostly be used in a very limited way or, as Sal Ammoniac mentioned, as a powerful baremetal-programmed microcontroller.