EEVblog #481 - Mailbag - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 11:01:16 pm
content: http://a-squaredtec.com/http://blisterpackaging.com/http://www.flickr.com/photos/64683169@N00http://gtronics.net

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 11:13:16 pm
content: ohhh, i thoguht you was to post the Tekway first impression video on moday ...Btw, did you checked the link you posted below?http://www.flickr.com/photos/64683169@N00Lot of porn!!!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 11:15:34 pm
content: LOL - he opened mine! The Chinese metal detector!I need to go to that thread and congratulate the member who finally guessed it. Hopefully he will tear it town and probe it.Please sacrifice the thing for science.Or ... give it to your son to go hunt for coins.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 11:26:05 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 11, 2013, 11:15:34 pmThat's the intention.I have something else already for next Tuesday though.

author: Slothie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 11:30:49 pm
content: I'm pretty sure the little paper strips are intended to be used as page markers in books/manuals. I used to use the Scotch version of those back in the 90s when I saw something interesting in a textbook or manual. Some of my older manuals have lots of yellow "frills" on them!

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 11:59:51 pm
content: Those blinker are fairly complex because it can most likely to detect a bad light bulb. When the current drawn is less that a set value (a bulb is bad) it will stop flashing. It will stay always on. It is very similar to the one from our family Toyota Corola (1974 model).Alexander.

author: CodyShaw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 12:04:08 am
content: That mechanical blinker... Love the old-school mechanics!Love how the Clamshell pack opener was in a Clamshell pack.. Those bastards!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 12:11:57 am
content: Think I found the schematic for those little hybrid/IC/whatever things in the blinker module.K224GG2(?224??2)Some sort of timer perhaps? Wish there were some labeling in the schematic."?224??2"... forum software, you win again...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 12:17:17 am
content: I find that the vast majority of these "annoying" packages can be defeated with a sharp knife.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 12:26:13 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on June 12, 2013, 12:11:57 amNice find, thanks.Knew is wouldn't be much more than few trannies.

author: RobB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 12:32:37 am
content: Typically to machine or engrave on a curved surface like the pen you would draw the design in the normal flat manner and "wrap" the design around the workpiece with CAM software. The Cam software will generate the linear and rotary toolpaths. The workpiece would be mounted into a rotary indexing head mounted on the linear axes. With two rotary axes connected at 90 degrees it is possible to engrave onto a spherical surface.I suspect the Lada flasher relay is not the normal thermal bimetalic type coz it gets bloody cold in parts of the former USSR. So cold in fact an old trick to starting an engine is to light a fire under the engine sump to heat the oil to the point where it will actually flow allowing the engine to turn over.Got to love the irony of the clamshell package opener packaged in a clamshell package.

author: RobB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 01:08:50 am
content: Quote from: tinhead on June 11, 2013, 11:13:16 pmWhat is the point Tinhead, your forum opus on the tekway tells it all LOL.Checked out the photos. Some amazing cable management going on in some photos. I also love the ultimate multilayer PCB from the Audi fuse panel just to prove the Russians did not have a monopoly on clunky design. The site is well worth a look and the guy is clearly a decent photographer giving justice to some of the exellent workmanship.

author: Yaksaredabomb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 01:29:16 am
content: Quote from: tinhead on June 11, 2013, 11:13:16 pmWow, that is insane!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 01:37:20 am
content: Quote from: Yaksaredabomb on June 12, 2013, 01:29:16 amI agree, awesome photos!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 01:38:09 am
content: Quote from: tinhead on June 11, 2013, 11:13:16 pmThe Tekway has to go back today, so guess I'd better finish the video...

author: dentaku
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 01:58:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 12, 2013, 01:37:20 amI like opening up old stuff too. I'd love to have the enclosures from some of that old Russian hardware so I can repurpose it into other things (synths/audio stuff mostly).It's funny to see those pins with wires spiraled around them instead of solder.Old Furuno marine equipment is amazingly jam packed with through hole stuff and is built like a brick. I even found a 512K-BIT UV erasable memory chip in a Loran-C from the 90s.

author: dentaku
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 02:00:36 am
content: Complaining about the people who make clamshells and blister packs when receiving free products from a company that makes that packaging was hilarious

author: adh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 02:04:06 am
content: I believe that these low integration hybrid modules on the calculator board are not so unique as it's essentially Soviet implementation of IBM's Solid Logic Technology. I remember that 20 or so years ago these used to be on display in National Technical Museum in Prague with description of the manufacturing process used which is essentially same as is described in IBM's SLT materials, ie. multiple ceramic thick film hybrid dies stacked in one package, all connected to same external pins on sides.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 02:33:32 am
content: We call them blinkers here too, FWIW.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 03:07:39 am
content: Quote from: dentaku on June 12, 2013, 01:58:08 amI liked the "redneck PSU Brick replacement." stuck to the back of the computer monitor. O0

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 03:08:35 am
content: Quote from: dentaku on June 12, 2013, 01:58:08 amThat's wire-wrap, and when done right, it's surprisingly durable.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 03:09:58 am
content: Oh, and Dave, those multicolored things with the blades are, I think, envelope openers. I imagine quite useful if you have to open a lot of envelopes...BTW, most of that swag is why I'm not in marketing. What on earth could possess someone to think that most of that was a good idea...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 04:42:48 am
content: Oceanside, Del Mar, San Diego, that's my neck of the woods!

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 05:40:10 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 12, 2013, 02:33:32 amSeconding. I don't think I've ever heard "indicator light" anywhere in the States. Turn signal, yeah. Blinker is also very common.Haven't heard anyone called a mug though.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 05:51:15 am
content: "Flashers" is also something we call them here in the states. "Indicator light" is used in the auto manuals and DMV booklets and that's about it.We don't call people mugs, but we call their faces mugs.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 06:26:49 am
content: Quote from: duskglow on June 12, 2013, 03:09:58 amThey are for opening boxes as well, Just stab in with the point and run down the seam.

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 06:35:42 am
content: I'm guessing the "Clamshell Opener" in a clamshell package was meant to be a novelty item. I would have left it in the packaging.I laughed my ass off over the irony of that part of the video.

author: sergey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 07:21:52 am
content: Hah, was so nice to hear Dave's reaction about devices from USSR and RussiaSeems russian letters would be rejected here, unfortunately. So, that chip which is closer to the relay (K224GG2 in transliteration) is a square-shape signal generator. And the second one (K224SA3 in transliteration) is a comparator. Not sure about 10-83 code, most likely Dave is right here. Not sure datasheet is available in english somewhere tho.One thing which could be interesting for folks as well: prefix K for chips meant the component is ok-ish for general purpose use, but wasn't rated for use in military equipment.That red think in the bottom on the PCB is just a lacquer.And value for the resistor is on the top!K12 means 120 Ohm. It's 2 Watts resistors.Hope this info helps a bit

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 08:03:13 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 11, 2013, 11:15:34 pmLooks like a Harbor Freight special! I've got about 5 or 6 Cen-Tech multimeters.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 08:04:19 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on June 12, 2013, 12:17:17 amI think the term Dave was looking for was "Pilfer Proof Packaging"

author: sergey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 08:42:32 am
content: Just a quick update. Found reasonable quality schematic of the blinker guy:http://www.automnl.com/vaz/2106/img/81.jpgUnfortunately, couldn't find schematics which would be understandable for non-ruski guys and need to go back to day-to-day job now. Will paste description how to power this thing up later today.

author: Yaksaredabomb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 10:01:07 am
content: Quote from: TerminalJack505 on June 12, 2013, 06:35:42 amSeconded. I'm pretty sure I've heard that exact type of packaging referred to as clamshell packaging lol. So funny to enclose the opener in the type of package it's intended to open. A real tease.

author: Skippy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 10:34:08 am
content: Hey Dave,Yes, I know these videos are free and all that so if I don't like I shouldn't watch (and I do like) but....Would it be possible to focus more on the electronics bits of the mailbag and less on the other stuff. In this video you spend 18 minutes of a 40 minute video discussing the merits of some pens and a T-shirt. I doubt that's what any of your viewers watch the EEVblog for. Then you look at the huge pile of parcels and say "woe is me, I'll never get through all of these...".Last week you spent most of the video examining some postcards.Personally I like the mailbag slot, and what I like about it is that it's half an hour of an assortment of electronics projects. We get someone knowledgeable (you) discussing the merits of each electronic project, maybe a little bit of a mini teardown like you did with the Lada indicator flasher, or a discussion of whether you think that PIC board is any good or not. That way we get 5 assorted electronics topics in an hour. Then you give us a link so that we can have a look for more details if we want.The bit for me I don't think is vital is the "suspense" element of opening the post. Perhaps you could open up the post before the video and fish out the 5 most interesting things, or at least screen out all of the non-electronics stuff, or the postcards. Or maybe just spend 10 seconds per postcard.

author: Jacko
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 02:12:44 pm
content: Packaging such as clamshells are used because unfortunately, people steal. That's why they are so hard to open, so shoplifters can't slip a small item out of the package and into a pocket.We sold a small item in a clamshell to Home Depot stores and did not have a problem with theft. We switched to a simple box (to cut costs), and all of a sudden the loss rate went through the roof! Home Depot complained that they were finding empty boxes in the stores. So, we had to get a packaging designer to come up with a solution without going back to the clamshell.Jacko

author: Yaksaredabomb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 02:19:54 pm
content: Everyone will have their own opinion about the mailbag videos, but I'm 80% happy with how you're doing them already Dave.It may seem silly but I think it *does* add a lot to see you (or rarely Sagan haha) actually open the packages. It just feels more personal to see the addresses and names on the front, and same thing with how long you spend on the postcards and letters. It's neat how you actually take the time to read them aloud vs holding the camera on on them for a second so the viewers can pause the video and read the text themselves.I agree though it would be even better if you could get through all the mail, or at least stay mostly caught up. Sure if you have a crazy week with a hundred items maybe some can hold off for a lighter week, a "low-pass filter" of sorts, but even if you have to break the video up and open more mail later in the day in another video, or even later in the week, just getting through all of it at some point would be great.A last point about "opening the post" - you've said part of the problem is how long things take *you* to do - not how long the videos are. If you open the post ahead of time and sort through it, that would be more work and take more of your time than if you just did it all "off the cuff" on camera. If a veiwer doesn't care to see you opening the packages or reading the postcards they can just skip past that as they watch the video. No need for you to do extra work organizing and editing.Thanks for the videos!

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 02:56:14 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 12, 2013, 08:03:13 amMe, too. They used to have them on sale quite often for $3 each. I made a special stand for them to sit in my work area at a proper angle side by side to measure multiple voltages simultaneously. I've also got one in each field box used for my various hobbies. I have two different Fluke multimeters for other measurements.Harbor Freight's safety warnings are hilarious because they use the same ones no matter what the product is to legally cover their arse while having no apparent idea about their suitability for the task being warned about. Recommending safety goggles when changing 9V battery is a perfect example.I have to wonder whether any of the Chinese slave-wage laborers or even their "management" have any comprehension of what they're manufacturing. For instance, I once bought two of their multi-compartment clear plastic storage boxes. The boxes had a label covering the entire top of the box showing examples of what could be stored in the individual clear compartments. After I removed the outer plastic wrap, I found that those labels had been _permanently_ glued to the top of the storage boxes. No concept or comprehension of what they're making or its use and no significant quality control.

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 03:08:15 pm
content: Aaaah, those so familiar Soviet parts.The part numbering has a strict convention. The two letters in the chip or hybrid name designates a function of the chip. In you case, one chip has GG (K224GG2), it means and oscillator (generator) of some sort. Whereas the other chip has SA (K224CA3), which means this is nothing else than a comparator. And yes, those are the date codes, October'83.The diode-looking thing is indeed a Zener diode, KC113. In the non-integrated semiconductor naming, there is also a strong naming convention: the first two letters mean it is a silicon (K) Zener (C), consumer grade, the last two digits mean the voltage, i.e. 1.3V.An interesting thing about this S (looks like C in Cyrillic alphabet) in the Zener part name: it means "stabilitron", a Soviet term for Zener. Of course they did not want to credit some foreigner for inveting it, so a generic name was used instead. The same applies for the other named inventions, like the Darlington pair is just called a "compound transistor".The transistor KT814 is also an absolute classic Soviet mid-power PNP. It was frequently used in a complemetary pair with KT815 NPN to drive a speaker in TVs or radios. In this naming, K is a silicon again, consumer grade, and T is transistor. The rest is just a model name.K12 on resistors means 120 Ohms. 1K2 would mean 1.2 kOhms, 12K would mean 12 kOhms. Those thick 2-Watt (MLT-2) resistors have same construction as the regular 1/4W ones: ceramic pipe with a carbon film deposit, and the metal end caps which also support the whole thing mechanically.

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 03:20:07 pm
content: I'm 99% happy with the mailbag segments.Since it's nitpicking day, I would like to add that the Swiss knives are NOT the ultimate tool for everything, especially the dinky Classic. I've found electrician knives to be a very good alternative.Best regards,Dan

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 03:43:47 pm
content: Attached is a schematic of this blinkie relay.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 11:33:01 pm
content: Quote from: Winston on June 12, 2013, 02:56:14 pmThe first 3 of the multimeters I got seem to register 14 to 30 ohms when the wires are crossed. I messed with the trim pot inside but could not get any better. I keep forgetting to take them back for an exchange before the time runs out so I end up with more. The last two which I haven't opened yet were "free with purchase" so I found something that I needed that was less than a dollar each, the felt battery terminal covers that supposedly reduce corrosion. (I've got 2 cars that repeatedly get so corroded they don't start)So my wife any I bought those on separate transactions so I could get two. As we left she said "Why did we just do that?" and my response was "Because we needed the battery terminal covers and these multimeters don't last"I had been buying ones with the same switch color so I could try to use the receipt from one to return the other, but since I've had so much bad luck, I switched to the ones with the other switch color. Hopefully they won't have the floating ohm problem.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 11:36:51 pm
content: Quote from: tchicago on June 12, 2013, 03:08:15 pmSo basically treat the K as a decimal point and assume a Kohm scale.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 11:46:23 pm
content: Quote from: sergey on June 12, 2013, 08:42:32 amOn the subject of Soviet parts, I remember reading about them getting pretty good at reverse engineering American made electronics and rebadging it.http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html"VAX - when you care enough to steal the very best "QuoteAlso there was the ES EVM which was a clone of the IBM S/360 and S/370 mainframes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_EVMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_EVM

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 02:51:47 am
content: Dave spacing out big time on this ep.griping about the clamshell opener in a clamshell, wondering what the digikey holder is for when it will obviously fit their catalog, and the post-it note flag strips too,

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 02:59:24 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 12, 2013, 11:33:01 pmI haven't had that problem with mine, but I only use them for multiple simultaneous voltage measurements anyway. They're passable for that and for hobby related field voltage measurements.

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 03:17:09 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 12, 2013, 11:36:51 pmRight. The letter can also be M, in this case it is a megaOhm scale, and if no letter then it is just Ohms. There were some attempts to introduce the color rings, but it never got implemented. And now that everything is SMD, not even necessary anymore.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 05:59:10 am
content: Quote from: Winston on June 13, 2013, 02:59:24 amDo yours have the red power switch or yellow?

author: Skippy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 08:54:03 am
content: Quote from: Yaksaredabomb on June 12, 2013, 02:19:54 pmYeah that's fine, if Dave upped his output and did 10 videos a week we could all just fast forwards through them until we get to the bits that interest us. But he isn't doing 10 videos a week, he's only doing 2 hours worth and as such I'd rather those 2 hours were a bit more on topic and less live coverage of a man opening a box. But that's just me.Dave has promised lots of videos that I'd love to watch (the latest Vincent Himpe thing springs to mind), but he's never going to get round to any of it at this rate. It doesn't take a genius to realise that if post coming in > post opened on mailbag segment, then it's just going to build up and build up.I'll stop moaning now, I promise.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 09:31:01 am
content: Quote from: Skippy on June 13, 2013, 08:54:03 amGot another 4 items today!

author: Yaksaredabomb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 03:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: Yaksaredabomb on June 12, 2013, 02:19:54 pmQuote from: Skippy on June 13, 2013, 08:54:03 amLol, okay when you put itthatway it sounds a lot less interesting. Unless he finds some creative new ways to open the boxes.Perhaps a good compromise or way around would be that Dave tries to do a relatively "fast", "high-level" overview and run through all the mail, then select some to go back to and spend more time on. That way everything would get opened so we can at least see it once.Do a quick 1 or 2-second pause on the box before opening, call out senders' names and locations, open it, do a quick 1 or 2-second pause on any letter or front/back of postcard, etc so viewers can pause the video if they'd like and read it. Then see what's inside and sort it into the "more time today" pile, the "more time another day" pile, or the "sorry, but probably no more time" pile.Then, make good on the "more time today" and "more time another day" piles, and spend a proper amount of time on them reading, commenting, tinkering etc on camera! It will be sad to see the "sorry, but probably no more time" items for just a few seconds and no more, but at least they'll be seen - and the sender can always hope you get a better look at them off-camera where it won't take editing/transcode/upload time

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 03:24:11 pm
content: I have something I'm considering sending, except I'm worried about how much it'll cost. It's pretty heavy, but you'd have loads of fun with it...Eventually...

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 05:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 12, 2013, 11:46:23 pmFrankly speaking, this supposedly Russian text is such a jibberish for a Russian speaker that it requires to think real hard to get at least a slightest idea of what it means.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2013, 08:19:19 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2013, 09:31:01 amWhile I'm thinking about it, did you ever do a teardown that magazine insert with the LCD in it?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 06:00:31 am
content: Quote from: duskglow on June 13, 2013, 03:24:11 pmPostage is not cheap. Some packages have cost of $100+ to send!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 06:01:26 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 14, 2013, 08:19:19 amNopeClassic example of the ever growing "put aside to another video" pile

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 06:14:39 am
content: I would send Dave a Tek Phaser 340 wax printer to tear down, but as it is a 60kg unit.................

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 06:17:05 am
content: Oo. I know *exactly* what to send you. It's not electronic, but I think you'd like it anyway. I'll do it as soon as I get a chance.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 08:14:12 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on June 15, 2013, 06:14:39 amThose things used to be the bane of my existence. People would force the 850/860 crayons in the 300 series printers and vice versa and clog up or burn up the print heads. It used to be one of my many jobs around the company I was at, telling people they just caused a $1000 repair.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 09:54:23 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 15, 2013, 08:14:12 am$1000 repair was just the consumable cost per year for these, that is why they landed on a shelf. That and a DFU who had a paper jam and turned the printer off, making the paper sheet a permanent part of the imager drum, as they ripped the sheet off and power cycled it.

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 03:08:45 pm
content: I was about to send Dave one of my spare Agilent N5247A's, but I think I'll wait until he's cleared the "videos for another time" queue.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 03:11:53 pm
content: Put it on ebay, it's gonna be a while.

author: sergey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2013, 08:01:57 pm
content: Heh, pardon for the delay. Got stuck with real job and some weekend projects to be built.So, for those who wants to power awesome USSR blinker up, here's info. Contacts are numbered in the following way:1 2 34 5Pins 1 and 5 goes to +12 voltsPin 4 goes to groundPin 3 goes to lamp (lamp connects between pin3 and ground)If pin 2 is connected to +12 rail, lamp would blink, otherwise it wouldn't blink.Easy

author: itdontgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2013, 09:19:07 am
content: http://youtu.be/HubZInAs0-A?t=15sDavid Larry Jones

author: itdontgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2013, 09:24:43 am
content: Check out those sparks!http://youtu.be/HubZInAs0-A?t=1m28s