How to build an ATE? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2014, 07:23:53 am
content: Hi,I am newbie on the forum.I am intended to put my feet on the road to build an ATE to test my developments.According to the hints I have read many times the connecting posts on the forum, and I try to put my specific questions in the following lines.Now and in the close future I am developing battery and battery charger analysing system.So I am building programmable CV,CC generator, electronic load, pulser, pulse load, etc what I am intended to check, analyse and documented by the ATE.The system is controlled by PIC32 on chipKIT boards, and developed on Microchip's MPLABX + REAL-ICE.But thinking of future developments it should be a flexible general purpose ATE what can drive analog and/or digital signal to the DUT ’s input, -if that needed- and measure analog and digital parameters as needed at a reasonable cost.Currently I have the following instruments for ATE use:2 pcs Agilent 6632B supply/load (GPIB, RS232)Siglent SDG1010 Function Gen (USB)RIGOL DS2072A (LXI, USB)The very next step I have to acquire a bench DMM.Then scanner, interfaces, and control software.I will be appreciated to read your recommendations to accomplish these steps:1. What DMM, scanner are you recommending?I have to buy a bench DMM what will be the heart of the ATE, also the measuring standard of my laboratory.First I was looking for used 34401A units. I have forund calibrated and shipped ones around 600USD, (I am located in the EU)For 1200USD the 34461A with GPIB is looks much interesting solution for hand and automated measurement.But from the ATE point of view where I will need the scanner, Picotest has this option at reasonable cost:http://www.accusrc.com/commerce/ccp7117-picotest-m3510a-6-5-digit-high-speed-digital-mult-m3510a-m3510a.htmhttp://www.accusrc.com/commerce/ccp7111-picotest-m3500-opt09-multi-point-scanner-card-2820-m3500-opt09-m3500-opt09.htmIn long range the 34461A looks the best, but please recommend solution for the scanner to measure voltage, current, temperature.Or I can build a scanner, if availabe an appropriate open source for hw and sw design.2. What TEST APPLICATION are you recommending?The control of the ATE is the next question. This have to be built from scratch.The command language, and test application what makes my life easier in aqusition, storing, analysing the data of DUT (asthis is the final purpose of this system!)What control hw should I build what can drive all the equipments I have.Now I have to use Windows on limited computers what later can be migrated to Linux.Currently I am using 3pcs. Pentium and Celeron notebooks in my laboratory dedicated for testing purposes.Of course I can’t use my core i7 „everyday” notebook for permanent dedicated testing.Should I get a new computer for this purpose?Later I am also thinking to change to Linux to run the MPLABX development system.I am newbie to Linux so I have to learn from scratch, that needs time.3. What ACCESSORIES are you recommneding?I have to get the interface parts. I welcome your recomendation of accersories sources:- GPIB cable,- appropriate USB hubs,- USB-GPIB interface( learning from the plenty of discussions on the forum, I think Beiming or scasagrande’s unit would be the most reasonable.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/for-sale-oshw-gpibusb-adapter/In EU it is more difficult to buy from US sources, shipping is horrible and sometimes also custom fees are applicable.It is much easier to buy from China/Honkong.I know this is long way to get all working, but I will build it step by step.Please help me to avoid the dead ends.As I am newbie in this field any "self-evident" info, source will be highly appreciated.Thanks, Csaba

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2014, 09:15:36 am
content: Quote from: tcsaba101 on July 13, 2014, 07:23:53 amWell, that depends on your programming skills and your budget. If the latter is not a problem then a development environment like National Instruments LabVIEW or Agilent VEE would be a good start. Once you know their basics it's pretty easy to design test environments.Of course you can also write your own applications from scratch and in any language you like.QuoteAgain, it depends on your abilities and your budget. It's much easier to develop ATEs on Windows as there is much better/wider support and less need to fight the OS. But if you write your test application froms scratch you could as well start on Linux.QuoteDepends on what generation your Pentiums and Celerons are (Celeron have been made for over 15 years and Pentiums for approx 20 years, so you would need to be a bit more specific). If they are somewhat newer (i.e. Pentium M or later) computers then they should be sufficient as ATE controller.QuoteYou should leave the ATE controller as ATE controller and not as all purpose PC.QuoteSo why not go with Windows then?QuoteAgain, it depends on your budget. If money is no objection then get one of the newer National Instruments USB to GPIB adapters. If you're on a tight butdget however the Beiming F82357 GPIB-USB adapter (a clone of the Agilent 82357B) is a good alternative.QuoteWhich means you still have to pay customs + VAT (although some seller misrepresent stuff as 'gift' to get around that, which is illegal and can get even yourself as buyer into trouble), and if they send via China Post as most do then it would be faster if it was delivered by horse carriage all the way from China.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2014, 09:54:15 am
content: I've developed countless production and development ATE systems, and it depends entirely upon the product and it's requirements of course.But one constant bottom line is to always build as little as possible in terms of electronics. Ideally all the electronics should be done with off-the-shelf hardware.e.g. National Instruments cards for DAC/ADC, I/O mux boards etc, and commercial test gear for general measurements etc.They cost a packet but it means you have one less thing to dick around with.You'll spend enough time on the physical build (19" rack or whatever), test cables, bed of nails, test control software, reporting systems etc.If you do have to do your own measurement and switching hardware for some reason then you can end up with a complex hardware project, like this:But even this one is not that complex in the scheme of ATE systems.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2014, 10:50:59 am
content: For scanner you can take a look on Keithley 7001 switch unit. They go fairly cheap on bay, (example), in range 100-250$ with a card or two.HP/Agilent have similar boxes too, but they cost more and not as popular.If you want DMM+scanner there are also Keithley 2700 series (6.5DMM, accept two switching card), HP/Agilent 34970A (6.5DMM+3 cards).I often use 34970A with 34901A and 34907A cards for voltage/temperature logging, it comes with free software which can collect logs and support some math functions out of the box, so it's pretty useful kit to start with, and have both GPIB and RS232.Also 7.5dig Keithley 2001 accept scanner cards, but that would be more than 1000$ total.As of software there are multiple options, from writing everything by yourself (can be painful and long process, but you have control on everything), to using higher level coding (for example using Raspberry Pi or some other Linux-running host to interface all instruments and write just a data collector/processor app + GUI if you need it), or even LabView toolkit, in which you "draw" your ATE with awkward graphical building blocks.Also system you want to build will be specific to needs you have. If you don't go on difficult stuff (high precision/low currents/voltages or high current/voltages) then you should be safe with common off-the shelf gear.

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2014, 08:47:49 pm
content: Quote from: tcsaba101 on July 13, 2014, 07:23:53 amI have an Agilent 34970A with a bunch of plugin modules. It has a built-in DMM and you can get a bunch of different mux cards for it including a 20 channel relay mux, a 16 channel reed relay mux (faster and more robust than standard relays), 2x4 RF mux, a 4x8 matrix switch, and a 16 channel GPIO card with a built in DAC and counter module. Good enough to make a bunch of current/voltage/temperature measurments as well as controlling a few external switches or other devices. This is the only unit of its type I am familiar with, though.Quote from: tcsaba101 on July 13, 2014, 07:23:53 amI highly recomend python. It's free, cross platform (windows, mac, and linux), and you can interact with modules from the python command line for debugging and testing. I know opinions on python on the forum are rather mixed, but this is one area where I feel it is the right tool for the job. Well, vastly superior to Matlab and Labview, anyway. There is a library called Python IVI that acts as an abstraction layer for many standard instruments. It's also open source, so you can write drivers for your instruments and have them incorporated into the library. Python IVI also supports pluggable instrument interfaces, so any Python IVI driver can connect to instruments over GPIB, LAN (VXI-11), RS-232, and USB (USBTMC). It can also call on PyVISA to communicate with NI compatible hardware.It is also quite easy to interface a python script to custom hardware over various interfaces (serial port, ethernet, usb, etc.). Python is a very nice 'glue' language.Quote from: tcsaba101 on July 13, 2014, 07:23:53 amI highly recommend running everything over LAN if possible as it is very convenient to connect everything to a standard ethernet router. You also won't have as many driver issues. To that end, a GPIB to LAN box such as the old HP E2050A is a good option. It speaks VX-11 on the LAN side. For serial instruments, USB to serial adapters are a good choice. Get anything with an FTDI chipset. I have had nasty driver issues on Windows with other chipsets. Generally data rates are low enough that if you need a USB hub, it shouldn't make much differece which one.

author: theatrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2014, 10:44:15 pm
content: One area that I'm surprised hasn't gotten more industry attention (or maybe I never knew where to look) is good, repackage-able parts for ATE.In the past, I've built fixtures using a bunch of parts (DIN-rail mounted usually), within a bed of nails box, all driven by an embedded Beagleboard (usually with an isolation board as this was mains powered). Software was some quick to develop Python (with ncurses UI). I/O to the few pieces of external equipment (Chroma sources and loads) was done over USB-RS232. Test operator actions were handled by a few panel mount buttons which emulated a USB keyboard.Very low operator training time *if you got the test software right*. Software upgrades were as simple as stick some files on a USB drive, or if everything went wrong with a new SD card.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 06:08:13 am
content: Thanks the fast replies.Quote from: EEVblog on July 13, 2014, 09:54:15 amDave, this is what you recomending?http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/hu/nid/211872This family would give a fast solution for dedicated ATE system for sure.Could you briefly inform about the simplest programming possibilities of this family?Quote from: TiN on July 13, 2014, 10:50:59 amThe 7001 is the best performance/cost in the market at the moment, thanks for the idea.The HP 34970A is more expensive but gives the fastest start to build a general purpose ATE, it comes with all hw, sw needed, easy interconnecting, nice!As I discovered it also has an LXI/LAN interface version.Regarding to the DMM scanner question I should make a choice between the following options:34461A + 7001 scanner + 7011c module34970A + 34901A or 34902A + 34907AQuote from: alex.forencich on July 13, 2014, 08:47:49 pmCould you recommend sources for Examples, Tutorial of using Python?I am programming in C++ (Arduino/chipKIT).I have chosen the Arduino platform -in spite of many backdraws compared to MikroC or XC32-, because of the dozens of application examples, forums, tutorials on the web.I am learning much faster based on real life examples.Quote from: alex.forencich on July 13, 2014, 08:47:49 pmVery good advice, thanks. The E2052 can get at reasonable cost in the bay.Could me redirect to a link to understand the VX-11 term?Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 13, 2014, 09:15:36 amI should end up arond 2000USD at this step.Now I want to setup a minimum system what I can use for collecting voltage (0-40V, 1mV resolution), current (0-50A on shunt, 1mA resolution), temperature(0-200 °C, 0,5 resolution) data at max 50smp/s of my designs.Then I can expand to have more automation.And the system should include a 6,5 digit DMM to calibrate the system parameters.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 13, 2014, 09:15:36 amYes, that is good advice, the ATE control have to be on a separate PC!One notebook is a DELL D800, Pentium M 1,6GHz, but only 1Gb RAM.That one runs MPLABX and a Terminal/Logger written in Processing (Java) program, without problem, this probably will be ok for ATE too.Others are Celeron M, R? 1,6GHz with less RAM. I drop them for this application.So one Pentium M or higher needed for my development background.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 13, 2014, 09:15:36 amIf I buy from the EU there is no custom fees, and VAT is applicable for all purchases. In case of company purchase the VAT is deductible.From outside the EU custom fees also coming to the picture.Shipping is very expensive from the US.One example:A Keithley scanner:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keithley-7001-80-Ch-2-Slot-Half-Rack-Switch-Mainframe-/371084832099?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5666612d63The cost is 150 USDThe shipping 117USDThe custom fess sould be about 30-40 USD.The VAT is 27%.So we end up more then double of the original equipment cost.I am buying parts, etc from China, and most of the times it is written on the envelope: "electronic part or gift" all cases the value is shown at $8or $8,2, even when it is more expensive.You are probaly right, this way they cheat the custom.I don't know what is the law but I suppose the custom fees can be forced later on, if it is revealed.Thanks for everyone the advices, now the picture is much clearer.I will appreciate the future advices too.Csaba

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 06:23:46 am
content: keithley 7001 scanner or a 34970a with a bunch of cards. advantage of the 34970a is that it has a 34401 built-in ...the most interesting cards are the crosspoint switches and the digital io cards to drive your own relaysi would get a crosspoint switch , a 20 channel input and a digital io card.as for gpib card : please,please,please get a REAL one. ( i don;t care if its one from china ) as long as it is compatible with real GPIB drivers like VISA , Agilent IO libraries et al. Anything else is just ... meh ... too many of these homebrew boards don't use the proper driver chips , don't support the bus completely or incorrectly. Especially if you are going to mix different machines you will run into strange things.

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 07:38:30 am
content: VXI-11 is the 'standard' LAN control protocol. There are a bunch of different terms that indicate VXI-11 support. LXI instruments generally support VXI-11 (not sure if they all do, but all the ones I have used do). There is an old protocol called SICL LAN that appears to be the precursor to VXI-11, but seems to be compatible (as in the E2050A might be technically SICL LAN, but it works perfectly with my Python VXI-11 driver). The protocol is basically GPIB over LAN, without the GPIB addresses.To use it in Python, there are two main drivers that will work. The first ispython-vxi11. This is a pure python driver that should work anywhere. The second is NI-VISA via PyVISA, but NI-VISA is proprietary software that doesn't run anywhere and brings along a lot of baggage. I would not recomend it unless you want to use a USB GPIB cable.In terms of controlling instruments, take a look atPython IVI. There are a few examples in the readme. The library does not have drivers for everything. For an instrument that does not have an included driver, you can either write it yourself and submit it as a pull request, or you can just bypass the abstraction layer part and send commands directly to the device. The high-level drivers do make things simpler, but there is quite a bit of glue logic as well in terms of the interface that is still beneficial even witout the high level abstraction. For exaple, there is currently no driver in Python IVI for the 34970A, but you can always just create a new instance of ivi.Driver and then call _read and _write to control the instrument.I can't recommend any specific python tutorials; you can find gobs and gobs of them on google. Python is a pretty simple language to learn so it should not be very difficult to get up to speed. I do recommend installing ipython as well and using that as your python shell - it has a lot of nice features including tab completion and persisent history.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 09:15:56 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 14, 2014, 06:23:46 amI like your recommendation, that system knows what I need at the moment and highly expandable later. Thanks!Also there are more offers on the bay of HP 34970a and accesories than Keithley.The only backdraw of this configuration that in this case I have to drop the idea of the 34461A as the DMM, in spite of I like it very, very much......But this is the logic over emotion. (Or higher budget.....)For connection I like the way what posted byalex.forencich- LAN - GPIB by a HP E2050A converter I can control all the GPIB units- LAN itself to the LXI interfacec- USB hub to the USB controlled devicesThis way I can skip the USB-GPIB conversion.Your opinion?

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 09:40:47 am
content: Well, if you really want the other multimeter, it's not like you can't use it, it just might be redundant depending on what you want to do. If you get a crosspoint board, then you can route different measurements to different meters. You could sit on one signal for a long time with the 34461 while scanning over a bunch of other signals with the other unit. Depends on the measurement you're shooting for.Also, if you get an E5810B, then you can connect USBTMC devices to the LAN as well. The box is a bit expensive, though.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 01:22:47 pm
content: Has anyone tried out the new M301 DAQ from Rigol?http://www.rigolna.com/products/data-acquisition/m300-system/m301/I've been looking at getting an ATE setup, and then this came out a few months ago. It's interesting, and a little less expensive than the Agilent. But, I'm still leaning toward Agilent.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 07:28:32 pm
content: QuoteMy first reaction to this is that you may be better off designing your own generic test platform. eg something on a large PCB card with a central MCU + FPGA/CPLD and peripherals plus plenty of I/O that can be expanded (by daisy chaining additional slave cards) to allow whatever volume of product you want to test at any one time. Then just write the software to control it all.I'd question the need for a 6.5 digit DMM for any of this.If you do it with the above methods then you will end up with a cheaper and neater solution that is easy to maintain and cheap to expand.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 07:18:29 am
content: Quote from: alex.forencich on July 14, 2014, 09:40:47 amNo I don't need at the moment 2 pcs. 6,5 digit multimeter. Just I like much more the new modell 34461A TFT display.Yes, I realized the matrix module will be good to use any other outside meters.It could be useful in the future.From price reason I stick at the E2050 for start.When I will have more practice I can improve the system to optimize the result the connection, the meter, the control sw, etc.Right now I am browsing to find a used 34970A for a reasonable price, what I can get calibrated before shipping.I am bidding for one what will end today evening at $600 plus $200 shipping. The others I found recently 800+ plus shipping.I have found34901A for $235 + $20 shipping from Hong Kong34902A for $150 + $50 from USA34907A for $50 + $50 from USAThe 34970A + 34902A + 34907A would be enough to setup the system.I would appreciate to receive sources where I can find the units I need.Thanks, Csaba

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 04:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 14, 2014, 07:28:32 pmI have had the same thoughts sometimes. But now all my resources are go to the development of the tester unit.I get back to EE projects after 20 years of business management position. I have a lot to catch up, and I want to focus on my generic goal.So I decided to buy things instead of create, what I can at reasonable cost. I build what I can't buy or the cost is high.Definitely later I will expand the system by self made modules.6.5 digits:This is intended to be the measuring standard of my laboratory, not just for this project.But anyway I havent found a lot of choices only higher resolution.I need a bench dmm.I have two 4.5 digits handheld dmm-s, and 3.5 digits 5pcs.Now I found this is a logical step to improve my measuring background.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 04:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: alex.forencich on July 14, 2014, 07:38:30 amThanks the detailed answer.I will checkout the sources.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 12:39:25 pm
content: Thanks for the help.Based on the advices I got:The 34970a, 34904a, 34901a, E2050 on the way.Still acquiring the 34907a.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 11:49:44 am
content: I have received the most important parts of my ATE system: 34970a, 34901a, E2050a, cables.The stored 34970a internal relay cycles are: 1: 563000; 2: 565000; 3:188000.What is the expected life of those realys? Possible to change?The 34901a relays are mostly under 100 cycles, this unit looks unused.I have get shipped an Agilent IO Libraries Suite 15.1 along with the unit.Also downloaded the 34825A Benchvue for 34970a.I have no idea how can I setup the E2050A to get connected to the 34970A and to my power supply 6632B on the GPIB bus.Please give me some link how I can setup the LAN/GPIB IO interface.Thanks, Csaba

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 05:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: tcsaba101 on August 04, 2014, 11:49:44 amManual is attached. Here is the run-down on getting it up and running. You will need a computer with a telnet client to configure the box.1. Connect power to the E2050 while holding down the config reset button. Keep holding the button down for 10 seconds or so to reset the configuration.2. Connect a crossover cable from the box to your computer (crossover cable not required if your computer supports Gigabit ethernet)3. Set your computer IP address to 192.0.0.1 and subnet mask to 255.255.255.04. Open telnet connection to 192.0.0.1925. type 'ip: 192.168.1.105' (without quotes) to set the IP address (substituting the IP you want)6. do the same for gateway (set to your router IP) and subnet mask7. disable bootp (you can set it up to use bootp, but it only runs on power on so most routers will drop an IP assignment via DHCP after a day or so)8. optionally change the interface name - I prefer gpib or gpib0, but you can also leave it as is9. type config, make sure everything looks good10. type reboot, then answer y11. connect the E2050 to your networkAt this point, you can conect a device to the E2050 via GPIB and try to connect to it with VXI-11. The resource string required will be: TCPIP::192.168.1.105::gpib,5::INSTR with the appropriate values subsituted (box IP address, interface name, and device address). Try sending an *IDN? command and check the response. If you want to use python, I would suggest installing python-vxi11 and then running<code>import vxi11instr = vxi11.Instrument("TCPIP::192.168.1.105::gpib,5::INSTR")print(instr.ask("*IDN?"))</code>If you send a modern instrument the *IDN? command, it should reply with some information about itself (manufacturer, model, serial, and firmware version). If it doesn't work, check the manual to see if there is another command you can try. If it times out, then check the address and the E2050 configuration.

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 08:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: alex.forencich on August 04, 2014, 05:57:30 pmThank you very much, the detailed answer.I see it needs a deeper dive to it.This way do we setup the GPIB-VXI interface type in the Conection Expert module? (The menü attached on the picture)

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 09:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: tcsaba101 on August 04, 2014, 08:37:36 pmMost likely. I have not used that software before, so I am not sure exactly what the correct prodecure is for configuring it.

author: asgard20032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 11:06:27 pm
content: What is an ATE?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 11:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: asgard20032 on August 04, 2014, 11:06:27 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_test_equipment

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2014, 06:39:58 am
content: Quote from: alex.forencich on August 04, 2014, 09:02:28 pmFinally I was able to configure the E2050A and also the connection to the Benchlink datalogger.Picture wiil be enclosed later (the Post editor doesn't want to attach now).The first milestone of the ATE project has been reached.Thanks for the help!!

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2014, 07:07:41 am
content: Quote from: tcsaba101 on August 08, 2014, 06:39:58 amGood to hear!

author: tcsaba101
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2014, 07:10:27 am
content: The picture.