Can you please explain "latching" continuity for a German... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: katerle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:34:18 am
content: Hi,in the reviews it's often spoken about latching continuity. Latching has many meanings in german, so that I not understand what exact it could mean in this context.Can you please describe it in other words?Thanks, Stefan

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:55:14 am
content: What it means is that a very short continuity beep is extended to make sure it’s audible. For example, many Fluke multimeters’ continuity test can detect a 1ms short (or open!), which would not be audible. So the beep is extended to a tenth of a second or so to make sure it can be heard. This also prevents the continuity beeper from sounding “scratchy”.FYI, I would say that in electronics, “latching” usually translates to “rastend” or similar.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:57:16 am
content: Actually, a few years ago I made some videos demonstrating this:Video description: “Using an ESP32 to generate a very brief short by closing a relay. 5ms delay are needed in code to produce the minimum 1ms short the Fluke 87V detects.”Video description: “Using an ESP32 to generate a very brief short by opening a relay. 2250μs delay are needed in code to produce the minimum 1ms open the Fluke 87V detects.”

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:00:41 pm
content: This video starting at 5:19 gives demos of different latching and also a non-latching tester:EEVblog 1671 - Beware of Multimeter Continuity Latchinghttps://youtu.be/9lC-k5yU9W4?t=5m19s

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:02:15 pm
content: Or with a nice circuit diagram and explanation: Latching Continuity Tester -https://www.learningelectronics.net/VA3AVR/circ/latching.html

author: katerle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:18:08 pm
content: Thank you all,that's exactly what I want to know and what I assumed, but not sure..."Rastend" is a good term, also "Verriegelnd, Signalfangend"

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:54:56 pm
content: There is also the translation “Zwischenspeichern”, which is probably quite appropriate in this case.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:01:34 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on July 13, 2025, 12:54:56 pmNo, definitely not IMHO. That is different, where you have a “latch” line that means “save the state of the inputs now”, where the inputs you are capturing are separate from the latch line.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: katerle on July 13, 2025, 12:18:08 pmIn the electronics context, I’d say “Signalfangend” yes, but “Verriegelnd” no.

author: Milmat1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 05:15:25 pm
content: I must say, I wondered the same thing. Thank you for posting this question..

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 09:09:12 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 13, 2025, 01:01:34 pmI agree that Zwischenspeichern would sound odd here - to me, at least, it means more like "cache" or "swap" in the sense of temporarily storing data, not an electrical signal.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 09:13:22 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 13, 2025, 01:02:21 pmAgree - I think "rastend" is probably the best word, in part because it's similar to words like Rastrelais (latching relay) or Rastschalter (latching switch)."Verrieglend" (again, to me) sounds more like "locking" in a mechanical or electrical (vs. electronic) application. And "Signalfangend" sounds more like a marketing term than a technical term

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:13:19 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 16, 2025, 09:09:12 amWell, the question wasn't necessarily about the perfect technical translation, but 'can you pleaseexplain"latching" continuity'.For me, “rastend” doesn't explain what is meant. “Zwischenspeichern” isn't particularly good either, but it's closer."Verlängert" oder "verzögert" etc. would perhaps go in a more understandable direction.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:20:56 am
content: Monostable multivibrator?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:30:33 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 16, 2025, 09:13:22 amPrecisely how I perceive it, too.Quote from: pdenisowski on July 16, 2025, 09:13:22 amPerhaps, but it kinda is what the thing does in this case!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:42:04 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on July 16, 2025, 11:13:19 amYes, which is why I gave a full explanation (and video demonstration) and only provided a translation as a footnote.

author: geralds
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:42:26 am
content: Possibly "nachklingend" (if continuity is indicated by a beeper), though this is rather descriptive and probably not a technical term...

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2025, 02:44:36 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on July 16, 2025, 11:13:19 amSorry, I thought the videos tooki posted (and the one from Dave) did a pretty good job so I kind of skipped that partI think verlängern would be better than verzögern since there's no delay in the start of the continuity signal - the signal simply persists for a short period of time even after electrical continuity is lostMaybe we need a new word like "nachpiepsen" (analagous to "nachleuchten")? Making up new words (d.h. Wortbildung) is one of the best parts of German

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2025, 07:27:37 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 17, 2025, 02:44:36 amYes, of course, I must have expressed myself somewhat imprecisely.I meant that a word should be found that is somewhat self-explanatory.The dictionary translations of “latching” don't provide that.Intuitively, "rastend" is not to be understood in the desired sense. One tends to think of a fixing mechanism.Furthermore. “Wer rastet, der rostet” ;-)“Zwischenspeichern” is also wrong, but a better ‘mnemonic’ ("Eselsbrücke") than "rastend".As you suggest, you could borrow terms from the oscilloscope, such as "Nachleuchten"."Nachpiepsen" is pretty accurate, but sounds a bit funny.Perhaps “Anzeigepersistenz” would be better? "Anzeige", of course, also in the sense of an acoustic indication.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2025, 07:39:08 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on July 17, 2025, 07:27:37 amThis is a good point: looking at dictionary translations for “latching” is doomed to failure because the term “latching” is actually really bad to begin with, as it doesn’t really match any of the main meanings of “latching” in electronics.I am sure a German term already exists for the concept. We just need to find it. It’d be interesting to know what a German test equipment manufacturer uses internally. Maybe we need to ask Gossen Metrawatt.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2025, 06:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 17, 2025, 07:39:08 amWe (R&S) primarily use English - many of our internal and external documents are sourced in English (versus being a translation of a German original).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2025, 07:37:13 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 17, 2025, 06:18:00 pmPerhaps, but that wasn't always true, I suspect. And I assume the same for other German companies.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 05:19:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 17, 2025, 07:37:13 pmOf courseAs someone who studied inWest-Germany and who worked as a translator in the 1990s, I would say the trend to sourcing documents in English (Europe-wide, not just R&S) started becoming much more popular over the last 20 years or so.Documentation from HAMEG (now part of R&S) was available in both German and English, and it's clear from reading the docs that the English was a translation from the German (see attached -)

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 05:30:54 pm
content: Latching, in general, is about "settle/locking" to a certain state.It is about remembering the last known state of a "something".

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 05:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: madires on July 16, 2025, 11:20:56 amGerman:https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monostabile_KippstufeEnglish:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivibrator#Monostable

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 05:45:41 pm
content: In my understanding, a monostable is NOT a latch.A monostable is about producing a single pulse (mono-stable, as in a single stable state, the produced pulse is only a transient state, the pulse is not a stable state, and not a latching state).A latch is about memorizing, about locking/preserving the last sampled state.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 06:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 20, 2025, 05:45:41 pmYou are correct, it would be a bistable multivibrator. In this application, it would be a set-reset latch that stays a certain time in one state.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 06:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: JohanH on July 20, 2025, 06:04:01 pmBut that is literally the definition of a monostable multivibrator, no?

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 08:43:26 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 20, 2025, 06:45:53 pmYeah, I'm unsure now. I don't think these definitions are standardized and Wikipedia doesn't link to any sources for the monostable/bistable multivibrators. There seems to be some overlapping terminology between latches, flip-flops, multivibrators etc. Or sometimes you might have an application or use-case that doesn't fit exactly under one definition? Not really my area of interest to dive into these semantics. Maybe someone that studied electronics theory more in-depth would be able to clarify the terminology?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 09:30:15 am
content: Quote from: JohanH on July 21, 2025, 08:43:26 amI did study electronics formally.The monostable/bistable/astable terms certainly are well-defined, and their names hint at the distinguishing characteristic of each.In this context , think of "stable" as meaning "happy to remain in this state".Anastablemultivibrator haszerostable states. It is not "happy" in either state, so it will constantly switch between the two states. No trigger is needed. In other words, it's a type of oscillator.Amonostablemultivibrator hasonestable state. It's "happy" only in one state, and "dislikes" being in the other, and so it "wants" to go back to that state as soon as it can. When triggered, it temporarily goes into the "unhappy" state, but then eventually reverts to the stable state. In other words, a trigger event produces a pulse. (These come in retriggerable and non-retriggerable. Retriggerable ones allow the trigger to reset the timer at any time, producing a pulse that can be extended indefinitely. Non-retriggerable ones ignore subsequent triggers while in the "happy" state, meaning that they always produce a pulse of a fixed length.)Abistablemultivibrator hastwostable states. It's happy in either state, so it will never switch on its own. When triggered, it switches state, but can stay in that state indefinitely, until triggered to switch again. In other words, it is a flip-flop or toggle. (Note that there can be one single toggle input, or there can be separate inputs to say "go to a specific state".)As you can see, the first two are essentially timing circuits, while the third is more like a memory. They share a common topology, which is why they're all called "multivibrators", but the functions are quite distinct.In the case of a latching continuity tester, you can easily see which one of these it is, by comparing its operation with all three types. The "trigger" is continuity.If it were an astable multivibrator, it would be switching the beeper off and on constantly, with no need for a trigger. So it's not that.If it were a bistable multivibrator, it would stay on indefinitely once triggered. So it's not that, either.That leaves us with the monostable multivibrator, whose behavior matches what we see: a trigger, even a really short one, produces a pulse of a defined length. In the case of a continuity tester, it does extend the pulse indefinitely as long as the trigger continues, so it is a retriggerable monostable multivibrator.Of course, in actual multimeters with latching continuity, they don't use a monostable multivibrator circuit, but just do it in software. But the principle remains the same.