Are hand-solderable packages disappearing? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Hawaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 08:03:31 pm
content: I recently started a new project where I'm trying to use new to me parts and recent parts in order to have a grasp at what is available on the market.Project been going great, but this is what I noticed:For sure there has been a considerable amount of new parts with integrated function and better specs which is really nice. But one thing that bother me is the use of non hand-solderable package. From what I see it seems that this is becoming standard, and proposing multiple packages is no more in mind of the suppliers. And if they do, then availability is very low for the bigger size package, so as the cost.I do get that smaller package means better integration and less raw material, but how are you suppose to test and debug your circuit when all the IC's are in BGA/QFN/DQFN/LFCSP/…? Does everybody has an hot-hair station and a reflow oven on hands? Do you put all the IC's on individual breakout board?Right now I'm considering myself lucky if I can get a TSSOP, even if I'm not sure I will be able to solder it.What is your experience about all the new packages? Are you feeling the same trend as me or am I just very unlucky that all the parts I want don't have a "regular" package?

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 08:11:45 pm
content: A hot air station and/or a hot plate are pretty much necessary. But other than that, once you've become comfortable with the process, it's actually easier than hand soldering.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 08:13:37 pm
content: QuoteTest points. Lots and lots of test points. Don't even have to be conventional test points, all you need is a few mm of stripped solder mask on the traces of interest.Another workflow involves first creating a devboard, prototype board or somesuch that is optimized for development, seehttps://www.macrumors.com/2019/03/19/photos-original-iphone-prototype-development-board/. The board can be any size you want. Once you work out all of the kinks in the design, you move on to creating the final design, which can be as small as needed.That said, with a bit of practice, it's not a problem to solder pretty much anything aside from BGAs with gear for a 100-200 EUR or so.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 08:16:22 pm
content: Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:03:31 pmHaving a hot air station is pretty much a requirement for any PCB work.Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:03:31 pmTSSOP is considered "trivial" to solder by most modern standards. So, the solution here is to increase your skill.Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:03:31 pm"Regular" packages will go away as the levels of integration increase. Many fast MCUs and other devices are not available in TQFP not because manufacturers don't want to release them, but because they can't. For high pin counts TQFP bonding wire and lead inductance becomes significant, preventing good decoupling and resulting in increased noise inside the device. There are packaging technologies with embedded capacitors in the device itself, but that increases the price of the assembly.

author: Hawaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 08:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on February 07, 2022, 08:13:37 pmYeah I already plan to have such a prototype board, I guess I will add a copious amount of test point then.Quote from: daqq on February 07, 2022, 08:13:37 pmAny recommendation for a hot-air station? I already have a PACE ADS200 soldering station.Quote from: ataradov on February 07, 2022, 08:16:22 pmI do understand the limitation of bigger packages, but I am manly talking about parts with <30 leads, like UQFN-8 or DSBGA-20.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 09:26:35 pm
content: Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:36:15 pmThey all are about the same, even cheap Chinese ones. I personally use Quick 957DW+, but I picked it primarily for a small footprint. I do like "analog" controls for the temperature and air flow. Before that I used some generic YIHUA, and I see no real difference in performance.Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:36:15 pmThat is often informed by the target market. If they expect something go primarily into the phones or wearables, they may not bother with large packages. It sucks though, I agree.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 09:47:07 pm
content: QuoteThat isn't a bad approach for basic messing around at the breadboard stage. The 'breakout board' could be more complex than a basic breakout board, e.g. put supporting circuitry/components on it so it becomes more of a subsystem than a breakout board.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 03:39:46 am
content: I've taken apart 2 clock/radio's from the 1970/80s, and both had most all the radio circuitry built into a through-hole chip. Lately I took apart an mp3 player and it had a digital, programmable receiver DSP type SMD chip. At least there's somewhere to still solder a few leads onto. And be-able to probe pins, etc.I'm trying to learn circuits, so I like the old fully discrete stuff better, but yeah my PC would never work like it does, it would be more like the 1950/60's

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 02:39:58 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 07, 2022, 09:26:35 pmThis can also be used to locate "hand-solderable" parts, whatever that means. For example, Microchip offers many of their micros in DIP packages, even 32-bit ones.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 02:41:55 pm
content: I've soldered 0.4mm pitch BGAs by hand as a novice to BGA soldering. Of course I wouldn't do it for any volume but if my shitty motor skills can do it, everyone can.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 05:17:59 pm
content: Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:03:31 pmThis trend -- and the associated complaining from hobbyists about how these newfangled SMT packages make life difficult -- has been going for what, forty years now?

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 05:28:52 pm
content: Another option is to design a PC board and then have the PC board house assemble it. Then you don't need to worry about soldering stuff like BGAs.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 05:59:32 pm
content: Quote from: Hawaka on February 07, 2022, 08:36:15 pmI started with a used $25 toaster oven and have not found a need for an upgrade. I tape a thermocouple probe from my DMM to a similar PCB in the oven. Then I turn it on and off twice over about 5 minutes and open the door in the end to speed up the cooling. Timing is based on measurements from DMM and reflow profile of the solder paste. Haven't done a lot but I've done fairly small stuff with lead-free paste and have not had any problems.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 07:42:07 pm
content: in case it's useful

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 07:46:15 pm
content: 16-Pin QFN to DIP Breakout Boardhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/403425720742?hash=item5dee0bf9a6:g:t-YAAOSwMFFh7Kwt

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 12:36:39 am
content: oh the humanity the PCB place might need to buy some drill bits if we don't migrate to pure black tile construction

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 01:06:15 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 09, 2022, 12:36:39 amActually, I've found I'm used a LOT of vias with SMD parts - especially with the thermal pads of many of your 'black tiles'. These are small diameter vias closely stacked that I'm sure the PCB house dislikes versus the old thruhole monster diameter holes.SMD is here and here to stay. Learn to deal with it and you'll find assembly is very quick and easy with hot air or an oven or a hot plate. I'm sure I can solder an equivalent 'pin' count PCB faster with SMD than if it was thruhole. The result is smaller and better suited to dealing with high speed signals and/or high current paths. There are definite advantages with SMD - the industry didn't go that way just for the hell of it. Looks at some modern SMD FETs and it is boggling the current density they can reach by having got rid of dangling legs.I'm 60+ with my 60+ eyesight and I have no issue with QFN parts with 0.45mm lead pitch. Decent solder paste and a hot plate takes care of things easily. A reasonable lighted magnifier and good to go.The only place I use thruhole is larger connectors that need mechanical support or the occasional electro-mechanical passive.cheers,george.

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 10:47:30 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on February 08, 2022, 05:17:59 pmYes, soldering SMD is not that hard, and I say this as a hobbyist that does not do it frequently. It can take some practice, but with hot air it's quite feasible. Many video tutorials are available. The risk is over-heating the component, but I've experienced that they can be quite tough and survived even my worst attempts.SMD soldering can be quite a zen activity, too.