LTspice IV - can't drag whole area! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 09:17:40 pm
content: LTspice IV - can't drag whole area!What I mean is that I can't drag the entire... shall we say "Workspace" ... the entire area - I mean clicking on a blank spot and dragging... I am running it on XP... I can't pan the entire sheet. If you could help me, I'm not sure how to proceed, and Google is a minefield, as ever.Cheers guys!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 09:25:12 pm
content: Well you're using a very old version of LTSPice on a very old OS. Not sure you'll find many with the same setup here.Using Win 7 and LTSPice XVII, panning is done by left-clicking anywhere and dragging with button pressed.And the zoom with mouse wheel is implemented backwards compared to what's "normal" (and used in 99.99% of applications). Gotta love LTSpice's UI.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 09:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 06, 2022, 09:25:12 pmYeah, I had a VirtualBox Win 7 running but the taskbar kept glitching and going all blurry (a known issue, apparently) - I didn't want to spend 2 days down a rabbit hole (as software tends to drag you!) and so I went to my go-to stalwart, XP. Thanks, and yeah, the UI is quirky but I like it - it's nice to not be "the norm"- cheers mate.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 09:29:56 pm
content: IIRC drag the background was introduced with LTspice XVII.In LTspice IV you either have to use the scroll bars or in Control Panel: Drafting options, enableQuote

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 11:55:59 pm
content: Well well well, it turns out that something as SIMPLE as removing the very buggy VirtualBox 7, and replacing it with VirtualBox 6, fixed the blurry taskbar issue and crashing, so now I may use LTspice XVII again! So much for software and its "progress" lol.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 12:05:19 am
content: If you are on Linux, Mac or FreeBSD, there is no need for VirtualBox or any other virtualisation. Install WineHQ, then download the Windows version of the newest LTspice and double click the .exe installer. This will install LTspice under WineHQ, without any virtual machine.WineHQ is not a virtual machine, it translates low level OS calls from the ones that were destined to Windows, to OS calls for your native OS. Many other Windows games and programs will work just fine under WineHQ, sometimes even faster than on a native Windows install.LTspice installed under WineHQ will be fully functional and able to run, save, auto-update and so on, just as if it were on a Windows machine.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 12:21:01 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on November 07, 2022, 12:05:19 amThanks, appreciate the guidance, and yes, I know Wine of old, but prefer a SOLID foundation (Windows) as opposed to "one which LOOKS like concrete but ain't" (Wine) - and I have other tools I want to install later, and cannot entertain more Linux hoop-jumping, unnecessarily (the aim is to create a schematic, not to spend a day learning obscure Linux fu, as adept as I am at it, after 20 years)Every second I spend fannying around in software, is a second wasted, which I could've spend doing the actual thing, versus preparing to setup the tools to prepare the other tools to DO the thing... if ya catch my drift?

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 07:13:52 am
content: To install wine in Linux (Debian-like Ubuntu and such) you open a terminal and type two lines:Code:sudo apt updatesudo apt install wine64That's all, no mess and no multi GB virtual machines.Then you download the LTspice 64bits for Windows from its official distributorhttps://ltspice.analog.com/software/LTspice64.exeThen double click the downloaded 'LTspice64.exe' installer, and it will start and run just as if it were Windows. Nothing to adjust or to fuss around with. Nothing stops you to install other tools later (in wine, or) in a VM if you prefer so.Then you double click the LTspice icon straight from Linux, no virtual machine to start/stop, nothing to tune.What operating system does your PC have? Wine is rock solid nowadays, it is not like it was many years ago. Wine is also more backwards compatible with native Windows programs than the current Windows itself is.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 01:59:52 pm
content: Quote from: eti on November 07, 2022, 12:21:01 amWindows XP in 2022 is hardly a "solid foundation".I have nothing against virtual machines, I always have at least two running at any given time. I'd recommend VMWare player. It's very solid and mature, basically VMWare Workstation underneath, with a more limited GUI for creating or configuring VMs (you can always edit the vmx directly if needed, I do).Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 06, 2022, 09:25:12 pmTools > Control Panel > Drafting Options > "Reverse Mouse Wheel Scroll" checkbox.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 07:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on November 07, 2022, 01:59:52 pmAh thanks, that does the trick! Still looks weird that the author would consider the standard way of using the mouse wheel "reversed", but oh well. At least the option to change it is there.The UI is pretty hopeless in LTSpice anyway. Sure we get used to it. But come on.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:35:24 am
content: The UI is very productive for a CAD, use/set keys shortcuts and use them instead of clicking menus and icons. In any CAD is the same, use the keyboard or suffer.Set M for Move, D for Drag, R for resistor, C for Capacitor, P for place Part, W for Wire, Space to fit full view, and so on, a single key press for each action or components. Use the mouse wheel to zoom, and disable schematic autodrag.They all can be changed from LTspice's control panel, avoid CTRL or other key alterators, though I have CTRL+M for Mirror, and CTRL+R for Rotate.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:37:52 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on November 08, 2022, 01:35:24 amI agree. You soon get used to it after an hour or so, it’s trivial. Lacking modifier key combos is a boon; single key to learn = faster muscle memory training.I’m still not gonna be using “Wine” though, as I explained the reason to be that I need a “solid foundation” (Win 7, and not Win XP as someone erroneously assumed I’d meant) for future software installs.I know Dave has had a similar experience with editing suites with people telling him “you should try X software, no, you really should try, no, you really really really really need to try it!!” and with respect, as good as it is; this works flawlessly for me, and I’m happy not wasting more time on something I don’t need.I’ve tried restoring this old HP ProBook 6460b to factory Win 7, using the original HP discs, and it has this infuriating habit of deciding to sometimes fully shut down and sometimes not, under ALL versions of Windows I’ve tried (And yes, I fully reset the BIOS).Time sunk can’t be reclaimed, and since I am always using Linux, and the bash shell is VASTLY superior AND Ubuntu shuts the laptop down first time EVERY SINGLE time, then I’m using it and that’s that. My life is precious to me and I have a hatred of wasting it pandering to idiotic problems which are nearly always IT-based.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 04:36:29 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on November 07, 2022, 07:13:52 amIknow how to do this, but for anyone else reading this, your guide fell at the first hurdle; double-clicking "LTSpice64.exe" opens it in "archive manager"; one needs to run "wine LTspice64.exe" from a shell.I concede that it works very well in wine... I shall test and report back if errors arise. Many thanks, I swallowed my pride and tried... (if rhyme were a crime I'd be doing time...): The "help" (Windows "CHM" filetype) viewer DOES NOT work. Bye Bye Wine, time waster.Rhetoric, but in case I’m “taken to task” on this (not that I care), here’s more evidence that a VM is just simpler and more reliable; I don’t care about all this “freedom” nonsense (delusional thinking) or “nasty” proprietary hogwash spiel, I want a tool to work, and a VM works as expected, wine does not. I’ve had mixed success with 🍷 wine over the years, having only seen it as “ahhh, how quaint, bless ‘em”>>https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/7072/wine-vs-virtualbox#:~:text=VirtualBox%20takes%20a%20lot%20more,works%20very%20well%20in%20VirtualBox.Just use the proper, genuine tool, not a kinda-sorta-maybe halfway house like wine.This is similar to why people buy a Mac. You can mess about with “Hackintosh” (and I have A LOT) but when you want work done, you buy the right tool for the job, and trying to get Linux to do what only a Mac can do with all these freetard tools? Uh, nope, tried since 2007, time sink!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:32:51 am
content: Quote from: eti on November 08, 2022, 04:36:29 amTo me it works exactly as I wrote. Double click on any .exe to run it, including installers, it even executes .msi with double click from Linux. While it is possible to start the installer from the terminal, there is no need to type "wine LTSpice64.exe". Double click the file from Dolphin and it will ask you if you want to run it, and if you allow that it will install LTspice.Most probably wine was not allowed to make its file associations, that's probably why CHM files doesn't work either.For me Wine worked flawless so far with zero maintenance, while VirtualBox will ask once in a year or so to update Guest addition and update both the guest and the host, had to be started/stopped manually, and VMs are rather large. But I do use them quite often, to preserve the toolchain for various devboards over the years.My point was to say WineHQ is behaving rock solid in my experience, not to force WineHQ on everybody else.Of course you should use whatever setup is more productive for you.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 10:27:26 am
content: Quote from: eti on November 07, 2022, 12:21:01 amLTSpice is specifically designed to run under WINE. It's much more reliable than an emulator. It's not the same as running a random piece of software, which isn't designed for WINE.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 06:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 10, 2022, 10:27:26 amPlease cite the sources which state this, as it seems a little dubious. Why would they target such a niche demographic? They wouldn’t

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 07:16:50 pm
content: That it was "specifically designed" to run under Wine is sure a bit of an overstatement, but as mentioned by the Wine team itself, the maintainer of LTSpice has always been prompt at considering and fixing compatibility issues:https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2000

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 07:49:53 pm
content: Indeed, the fact LTspice runs under WineHQ is not just a happy accident.I think LTspice officially supports running on WineHQ, and being tested against it, too, since about 20 years ago:https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.cad/c/62F-2tviHYE/m/NXksfIUn5HkJ

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 08:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on November 10, 2022, 07:49:53 pmI think maybe you are a little fanciful here, maybe as Linux advocates; please would you show where it explicitly states this (versus an optimistic personal interpretation). Were it "officially supported", would it notsay soon the download page? One would think so...Also, see this thread:https://ez.analog.com/design-tools-and-calculators/ltspice/f/q-a/550387/error-in-interpretation-of-paths-when-running-ltspice-under-linuxwhere "John Kevin" of Analog, specifically says "LTspice is not available for Linux"Case closed.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 08:09:32 pm
content: Not sure what your point is. I've seen very few Windows software maintainers officially *claiming* compatibility with Wine. That would be shooting themselves in the foot as they are targetting Windows and have little to no control over Wine. So, that the Wine team itself say that LTSpice is well supported should be enough and all you'll probably ever get.I don't doubt you'll run into bugs. As if LTSpice had no bugs on Windows already as it is. It has quite a few, and some annoying ones that never got fixed. It's still usable, but nowhere near perfect.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 08:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: eti on November 10, 2022, 08:04:30 pmThat was an argument for "it is not just a happy accident, it's tested against wine, too, not only against Windows".How else would one be able to implement such a "-wine" switch without testing it with WineHQ, too, not only on Windows.QuoteSource:https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.cad/c/62F-2tviHYE/m/NXksfIUn5HkJYou seem more inclined to rant than to ask why something doesn't work, which might be very time consuming and solve nothing at the end of the day, so I won't argue any longer. I know LTspice as working very well under WineHQ, and I'm using it like that for many years now. To me, that's "solid foundation" enough. Won't split the hair any longer upon this.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 09:06:35 pm
content: I wouldn't call a request for a firm confirmation that LTspice is "officially supported" on Wine, a "rant" - strong implications and statements were made, I am a very literal, fact-seeking person; it was claimed, I am following up on the claim.I am neither even slightly upset, annoyed or bothered (since no tone of voice exists, you can't tell that) - I am merely asking for a citation, and if none exists, that's cool - no worries.