Affordable desoldering pen?... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 02:52:52 pm
content: Hi all,After piling up a bunch of desoldering tools and stations - none of which I like, to be honest - from the cheap knockoffs to a Hakko FR-301, and ruining too many PCBs (very sensitive when from a certain time and of a certain age), I could really use some recommendations.Most pump-actioned such tools are either "gun handpiece" form factor, with a separate desk module, or, if pen style (in my opinion, the only form factor suitable for work of any accuracy and finesse), they're single action type.Is anyone aware of good, affordable, decently built (and preferably, grounded tip), small and nimble, "pen form factor," desoldering stations? All those I could find in the US from the mega retailer don't have three-prong power plugs.Thanks a bunch in advance!

author: mkiijam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 03:28:30 pm
content: To guide my thinking, can you please give me your opinion of the Denon SC-7000z?

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 03:50:46 pm
content: Have you tried the SS-331?https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DeTOjWVBeen using it for about 2 months now and it has been great.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 04:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: Jackster on April 21, 2023, 03:50:46 pmLooks pretty nice (I have one of the older iterations of this, and it's been fine), but it doesn't fit my criteria.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 04:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on April 21, 2023, 02:52:52 pmSome PCBs, like Tektronix of a certain green color, are just very difficult. It looks like your Prema may be like that. It seems like they are only capable of surviving one trip through the wave-solder machine and reworking is a nightmare. Cleaning them thoroughly may help.The 'pen' style desolderers from Pace and others are actually not all that nimble as they're pretty big and have a cord and a hose. I haven't personally tried the Metcal version. I've stuck with the Hakko FR-301 and the key, IMO, is getting just the right tip. I literally have a dozen different tips that I use. For sensitive circuit boards, I always clip the component leads where possible and I use one of the long-snooted tips to slow down the heat transfer to the board. And patient, careful setup helps--I'll make sure I have a good grip and am ready to apply tension before the heat starts. The worst, IMO, are the situations where you have pads on both sides of a non-plated through hole and the component has a thin, copper-clad steel lead with poor thermal conductivity so you risk either ripping off the pad opposite the heat or watching your board start to smoke and the pad you are heating starts peeling off. In extreme cases, clipping the lead flush and then heating both sides, one with a fine iron and one with the desoldering tool, may work. You have to push the lead remnant out and then suck it into the desoldering tool and then clean it out right away.https://gokimco.com/products/hakko-n61-13-high-power-desoldering-nozzle?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=65b822c12&pr_rec_pid=4379292401716&pr_ref_pid=4379323236404&pr_seq=uniform

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 04:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 21, 2023, 04:51:43 pmThank you for your input. I have one tip like that, I've used it occasionally in harder to reach spots, but maybe I should give it a bit more run in various situations, see if it helps.

author: abdulbadii
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 02:16:09 am
content: Quote from: Rax on April 21, 2023, 02:52:52 pmwhat'd that mean, anyone'd say it's the best and $$$ never lie ?nevertheless just keep in mind, every tool is intended to do a very specific thing of job however hi-tech it isso it only contributes a small certain role in broader, larger and longer course of the complete task required to finish successfullyif this tool is underrated just for few failures, we must reevaluate that whole task/project as problem consisting of many difficult courses, not to blame one of fairly good tools utilized in the taskeg. may be should've been higher temperaute, preheat work, using kapton tape, have clean workpiece, etc each of which will give real successful accomplishment

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 04:23:19 am
content: Regarding THT component removal...I've settled on PACE system after learning to absolutely HATE my Hakko FR301. I spent more time cleaning out the Hakko than using it. Done with that.For general technique, plenty of flux, re-wet the solder with some fresh can help if the old solder is oxidized and otherwise not shiny. On stubborn removals, especially on 4+ layer boards with a heavy heatsinking power layer, remove what you can, have some low-melt solder on hand, fill it back up with low melt solder, de-solder again. That usually gets the stubborn ones w/o damage. Don't touch the board with the tool, component only. If you aren't trying to save the component, where you can cut each lead off individually (on stubborn components). You can then just heat up that individual lead and remove it while the solder is molten, then use braid to get the solder out. Bunch of ways to do it, really. The trick is picking the right one for the situation.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 04:29:50 am
content: Not as affordable but as per the above post, a bunch of us here on the forums have Pace vacuum desoldering tools/stations. I've had my Pace SX100 for 5 years now and can see it lasting over 20 years. Check out my recent post in the below link, comparing the FR301 and showing the size comparison.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/pace-why-so-expensive/msg3441136/#msg3441136

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 04:44:07 am
content: I've had a Pace SX100 for a couple of years now and really like it.You do need to keep an eye on the condition of the tip and swap it out for a new one in as soon as performance degrades. Otherwise it starts to damage pads and eventually the side collapses. That would be no different to any other type of unit though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 11:08:44 am
content: Quote from: mkiijam on April 21, 2023, 03:28:30 pmThey are excellent. Now, I usually prefer a pencil style desoldering handpiece (I have Pace myself), but having used Pace, Denon, and Weller, I can recommend the first two.The downside of the Denon is that the tips and supplies are quite expensive. (So is the tool itself, for that matter.)

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 12:34:22 am
content: I was completely unaware of the Den-On desoldering gun (a gun, never the less, so N/A) - the spelling of the name (as posted) completely threw me off, btw - but the Pace sounds like an interesting solution the more I look at it. Although pricey, with tools, though, skimping usually pays back at the backend, so to speak. It only fits in my budget if I luck out on a used unit.Quote from: tooki on April 24, 2023, 11:08:44 amIs Den-On also making "pencil style" desoldering tools?

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 12:44:52 am
content: Quote from: Rat_Patrol on April 23, 2023, 04:23:19 amUnfortunately, I can't disagree with you, I've had to change a clogged heater shortly into the second year of ownership of my FR-301. Aside from the expense, there was the complete disassembly, the works. The kind of thing one hopes it's a one off, from a tool with good name. Before this, I assumed this would last me, with minimal care, for a very long time. After this incident and a bit too many lifted pads and traces - mostly due to the heft and utter lack of nimbleness - I am looking further out.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 12:52:23 am
content: Quote from: Rat_Patrol on April 23, 2023, 04:23:19 amThat's sad. I haven't used the FR301. Those pistol style tools look really clumsy. However, the old straight and very simple Hakko desoldering tools were superb for through hole desoldering. Comfortable, effective, and easy to maintain. I still have one of the cheap manual ones.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 04:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on April 25, 2023, 12:34:22 amThat’s how I got mine! It took 3 years of patience, but in the end I got one (still a current model at the time, and the same handpiece still used now) for just over $100 shipped — and it came with about $100 worth of unused tips and filter consumables!It only needed a new rubber seal ($6 I thunk it cost me) and a little button cap (about $10) to make it like new.Quote from: Rax on April 25, 2023, 12:34:22 amNo.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 04:41:33 pm
content: I just grabbed an SX-90 with an MBT-250. Still in transit, so I have no idea of the state. The PS came for a very low price (while still being available new, andveryexpensive), but the SX-90 not so much, though from pictures, it seems its condition should be very good.I think the SX-90 has a couple of prominent advantages:It uses current production supplies, period (tips, cartridge, etc.). On some other, older models finding supplies seems to be a serious issues, and I just think you pay the difference/savings in the initial investment very quickly as you use it. If you're even able to find any from a point.It uses the solder/flux collection cartridge, which is a huge bonus for me for peace of mind (safer disposal of lead waste)I'm hopeful this will support my needs for a long time, but will report back here on what I'm finding.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2023, 06:07:37 pm
content: The Pace series of products and their "technologies" are so confusing.At some point, it seemed they are essentially retiring their SensaTemp technology, to be replaced with their IntelliHeat (black vs. blue connector) - at least if you look at their "gender-bender" adapter. And yet, I seem to see SensaTemp on new products (such as the MB360), while IntelliHeat not so much. Then there's a the AccuDrive (which seems to only apply to soldering handpieces), and I just learned there's also HeatWise (?), which I don't even know where it is used and what it even means, as a "technology."And then, which of the above can be found on a handpiece for soldering using "cartridge type" tips? Differently put, I am looking for a handpiece for soldering that uses SensaTemp but also not passive, old style tips. I am currently using Hakko cartridge tips and it's night and day to the old type tips. This far, I've only been able to find the PS-90 as a soldering handpiece based on SensaTemp (so I can hook it up to the MB250).

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 07:46:19 am
content: The Intelliheat stations (blue sockets) will run the TD100A which is a cartridge based handpiece. Intelliheat stations will also work with Sensatemp handpieces with the black to blue cable.https://paceworldwide.com/td-100a-ergonomic-soldering-iron-tool-standFor Sensatemp (black sockets) there is no cartridge soldering handpiece or forward compatibly.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 09:41:19 am
content: Quote from: Rax on June 11, 2023, 06:07:37 pmI gathered the info into a post a while back (when the multichannel version was still expected to be called MBT 450, rather than the MBT 360 it became):Quote from: tooki on January 03, 2021, 07:16:00 pmIn essence, for their closed-loop temperature-controlled handpieces*, they've only ever had three electrical standards: SensaTemp, HeatWise, and AccuDrive. Every handpiece uses one of these three electrical standards: TD-100 uses HeatWise, TD-200 and MT-200 use AccuDrive, and everything else uses SensaTemp.Multiple versions of most of the SensaTemp and HeatWise handpieces exist because of different connectors:AccuDrive has only ever been provided in a dedicated (single-standard) connector. SensaTemp and HeatWise existed in both dedicated connectors (6p black and 4p red, respectively), as well as combined in the IntelliHeat connector (8p blue).Basically, what Pace did with the release of the MBT 360 is to fully discontinue the HeatWise signaling, by ending the IntelliHeat connector, too. So now we have AccuDrive (4p black) for irons and tweezers, and SensaTemp (6p black) for the other tools, in both cases using only the dedicated connectors.*That is, expressly excluding their earlier systems which were power-controlled, but not temperature-controlled. These variously used 120V AC or 24V AC handpieces, with essentially dimmer circuits to control power.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 09:48:45 am
content: Quote from: Rax on June 11, 2023, 04:41:33 pmThe longevity of the SensaTemp handpieces, and parts for them, is a huge boon. As Shock suggested, the only thing that isn't offered in SensaTemp is cartridge-heater irons. The PS-90 isn't bad, but it's certainly no match for a modern cartridge heater iron.In fact, the "old" SX-90 is identical to the current SX-100; as far as I have been able to find out, the only thing that changed between late-production SX-90's and the SX-100 is the color of the printing. (Partway through the SX-90's production run, they changed the internal heater connector, so when replacing it, one must procure the correct version: black or blue. SX-80's have black and SX-100's have blue.)Pace will sell you basically any part for their products, so repairs are easy and fairly inexpensive.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 11:05:55 am
content: I have an MBT350 setup with the TD100 cartridge handpiece and a SX-90 desoldering handpiece( blue highlights and text). I have a Thermojet TJ-85 hot air pencil and MT-100 tweezers. I haven't used the Thermojet and tweezers yet, as I don't do much SMD work. Nice to have them when I need them, though. I've used the PS-90 handpiece in the past, and it's great for heating large tracks and terminals etc. I use a Metcal at work.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 12:56:57 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 12, 2023, 09:48:45 amI think this similarly reflects the two SX-100 versions currently available - SensaTemp vs. IntelliHeat. I assume the former comes with a black connector, the latter with blue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the color is how the two connectors can be easily distinguished (as a short-hand).

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 09:51:31 pm
content: With regards to your purchase, some of the older stations had internal filters but the modern ones have an external filter in the hose line (Pace calls them Visifilters). Combined with that the trap filter (if using the cleanable glass tube) and front and rear handpiece rubber grommets would take care of most of the service parts pertaining to the SX90 handpiece.If the station has been used a fair bit and sitting around the minimum is a new Visifilter and a trap filter though which are considered it's main consumables. If the tip has a lot of miles they tend to clog more frequently due to internal wear. So if purchasing tips I suggest a "sample pack" which has 8 tips of different sizes (a few easy access) and a rework tip. Tip break down cost is currently about $8 per tip. Filters under $1 in bulk.For my SX100 I have the "trap kit" which gives me two additional glass trap tubes and misc parts. This way I can desolder a bunch and don't worry about cleaning them till I'm on my last one. It's easier to quickly swap the trap over and clean later as there is no disruption to work flow. My station has been quite consistent in performance and I recommend watching all the Pace videos on youtube with vacuum desoldering sections.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 02:30:16 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 12, 2023, 09:51:31 pmI'm planning to use the disposable traps, which I think all SX-90s should be able to accommodate, is that correct? I assume those are essentially alternatives to the glass tube.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 10:52:08 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on June 12, 2023, 12:56:57 pmNo. With regard to the mid-production-run change, I'm talking about theinternalheater connector inside the handpiece. This is regardless of whether the station-side DIN connector is the black SensaTemp or blue IntelliHeat connector. Mine is an IntelliHeat (blue DIN connector) with the older-style black internal connector.The SX-80, SX-90, and SX-100 all exist in both SensaTemp and IntelliHeat versions. But the difference between SensaTemp and IntelliHeat is which connector is on the end of the cord, electrically they're identical.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 10:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on June 13, 2023, 02:30:16 pmYes. Again, the SX-90 and SX-100 are identical. The SX-80 is nearly identical (it used a slightly different heater), but can actually be upgraded to an SX-90 by replacing the heater. (The SX-90/100 heater accepts the current desoldering tips with the flared tube end.)The consumables (filters, rubber seals, solder collection tubes, etc.) are identical for the SX-80/90/100.With that said, I'm not sure what the big advantage of the paper collection tubes is; they're quite expensive compared to just emptying out the glass tube. (Tip: smear the inside of the glass tube with a bit of oil, which prevents flux residues from adhering so ferociously. Makes cleaning much easier.)

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 04:38:48 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 13, 2023, 10:56:24 pmHuge advantage for me is - at least from the vantage point of one that hasn't had one in my hands to properly evaluate - easier and safer disposal of leaded waste. Cost is the least of my concerns from that perspective.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 07:37:45 pm
content: Easier, sure. Safer? I mean… i don’t think it makes any difference. Either way you’re either putting it in the trash, or into e-waste if you wanna be super conscientious. Either way, as long as you’re not eating the solder and wash your hands when you’re done, I don’t think there’s any significant hazard.I’d say that the only difference in hazards between the paper and the glass tubes is the risk of cracking a glass tube, which I did manage to do once. (Learn from my fail and oil the inside of the glass, so the flux won’t stick to the sides and cause the solder waste to stick, too.)

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 01:40:16 pm
content: Is anyone aware of a way to check the vacuum on an MBT250 station? I am just about to have the entire set - handpiece + tips, cartridge, etc. - station, etc.), and would be interested to figure some sort of way to estimate its performance. No flags this far, but still.Given that I got all these things second hand, and the lack of prior exposure to Pace stuff (verified to work well, or new), it's difficult to assess if this stuff I have is working well (what to expect).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 04:46:55 pm
content: You could use a vacuum gauge to see if it’s working to spec. The manual lists the pressure.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 06:24:18 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 22, 2023, 04:46:55 pmYou're absolutely right - duh!! - so I need to find a suitable vacuum gauge and see what it tells me.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2023, 04:18:55 pm
content: I am seeing about 16.5 in. Hg from a cheap vacuum gauge. Per spec, I should see 20, I think.Has anyone else tried to measure this? Am I totally out of spec?If yes, I could either get a pump rebuild kit (about USD $50), or maybe the whole pump (though that doesn't seem likely to be necessary).

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2023, 05:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: Rax on June 23, 2023, 04:18:55 pmBetter/tighter connection between the gauge and the vacuum port returns a solid 18 in. Hg... Can't imagine I should expect much better than this.But I'd be very interested to hear if others have tried this and what the measurements returned.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2023, 04:24:37 pm
content: Since you probably don’t know how accurate your gauge is, I’d say that’s just fine.What matters far more is that you keep the filters clean. Flux-saturated filters will KILL your suction. The other thing is the rubber seals. In particular, the front seal (the one sealing the collection tube to the desoldering tip) is in nearly different contact with the heater, so it degrades over the years. But it’s a $6 part, so just treat it as a consumable. Also, make sure the seals are clean. Dust and gunk on them will also cause leakage.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 12:41:59 am
content: So, things seem largely OK with my newly put together desoldering system. Vacuum seems OK, there's heat, there's suction, etc.But, upon verifying with a cheap thermometer ("Walfront 191") the temperature at the tip vs. what's displayed on the station don't coincide. I'm less degrees at the tip by something like 25-50C and more. This is with brand new tips.I have somewhat good reasons to think the thermometer works OK as my FR-301 seems pretty dead on. Big grain of salt on my assumptions on why I trust the thermometer, as I've replaced the heater on the FR-301 and then just now readjusted. So I don't know 100% objectively the thermometer doesn't lie to me, but I'll go with it for now. At a minimum I see absolutely dead on differentials between the different adjustments on the Hakko.What could cause this mismatch between the temperature displayed on the station and the temperature at the tip? Defective heater on handpiece? Misadjustment/miscalibration of the station? Something else?If I need to buy another heater, my whole strategy is... shot. I just about could have bought a new SX-100 with the overall investment. Well, not quite, but I'm staring at my law of diminishing returns graph and I am not excited.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 02:13:04 am
content: You can calibrate the station and optionally enter or dial tip temp offsets (depending on model) to get more accurate control if you need to. You might want to ensure the tip thermometer is accurate though before starting. The procedure on that kind of stuff is in the manual.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 02:27:02 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 27, 2023, 02:13:04 amIsn't >50C too much for that, though? Also, I don't seem to be able to reach even 400C reliably.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 02:20:49 pm
content: You can try measuring at various temps to see how well it tracks. I don't think 50C is too unreasonable, but am unsure on the max adjustment. I went through it a few years ago on mine but I'd have to reread it all now and want to avoid messing around on my own station.The heaters plug in so it's not impossible to remove them and take comparative measurements against another one to see if the heater is good. There are some different part numbers used across the handpieces and stations so you want to ensure you're matching to the same heater.Here is a video I caught a while back, Tooki or others may know some more about the differences, I've never looked into it. I'm pretty sure we have different heaters so I don't know how much help there I can be.This thread is getting a bit long so if you run out of participation and need a deep dive perhaps start a new appropriately titled thread and include images of the handpiece and heater and station with firmware version, along with models and part numbers. It makes easier to understand what you are working with.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 07:07:57 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 27, 2023, 02:20:49 pmWith the caveat that Pace has the unfortunate habit of reusing part numbers, often keeping them the same as they update the model number. (For example, the SensaTemp SX-80 and SX-90 have the same part number, even though the SX-90 has a different heater.) So careful description of what one has in front of them is critical.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2023, 05:35:46 am
content: I got a chance - finally! - to use this new gear tonight. As a reminder, what I have is an SX-90, an MBT PPS 85A, an assortment of tips and a bunch of other accessories.The impressions this far are excellent. The handpiece has the maneuverability I was looking for and more, there's healthy suction - this is exactly what I was looking for. The board and traces are getting the treatment very well, each action just removes all solder (first time I used it, I had to pull my lighted magnifier and take a long, closeup look, as I didn't believe the solder was all gone from the hole, but upon pulling the leg, it just came out of the eyelet... magic!).In a nutshell, it seems to offer me the reassurance and ruggedness to go long nights of rework and not worry about a thing. This is simply amazing - desoldering/rework has been my nemesis for a long time (as much as I need it all the time). I dreaded it most of the time, but it seems this may have just made it fun for a change.This is amazing news.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2023, 08:36:28 am
content: Good to get it up and running, congrats. I must admit that series has aged well, super robust looking stations by today's standards.