The DigiKey Stasi - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ianbanks
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 02:35:33 am
content: I've just finished dealing with DigiKey's export division, and I wonder if anyone else has a similar experience?I ordered some fairly innocuous parts (a few AVR's, CPLD's, monolithic audio amplifiers, etc) in the evening so that the order would hopefully go through at the start of the US day. Checking back in the morning I find they've held the order and want to know exactly what I'll be doing with the parts before they'll ship them--they weren't satisfied with the answers I gave in the order process.They also wanted to know if the word "Bit" in my business name was an acronym (it isn't, it refers to a computer bit).If this was a specific requirement put on them by the US Government I'd be more understanding, but no other US electronics exporter seems to do it (Mouser in particular doesn't).I don't imagine illegal arms manufacturers have any qualms about lying on a web form or e-mail."Oh crap, I meant to type 'make a toy alarm clock' but instead I accidentally wrote 'build the triggering mechanism for a 20 megaton ballistically launched multiple-independantly-targetable thermonuclear warhead to reign fire down on infidels'!"

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 02:40:27 am
content: Got them asking once, I just said hobby project. IMO it's more stat collection than export control.

author: tyblu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 02:41:08 am
content: Well, you must have something to hide if you're upset about it. Good job in tracking down terrorists, DigiKey!...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 02:43:52 am
content: I had a similar thing.They weren't happy with me ordering a "large" qty (25) of parts for personal use.They just didn't believe it was for hobby use and wouldn't go any further without a company nameOrder was around $600 ( USD$400) for 25x mcus, max232, dac, opamp + 500 or so 0805 smt components.Had to make stuff up and put it through under dads company.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 03:07:00 am
content: Why give money to people who don't want it Psi?In those sorts of situations I send a polite FOAD to the company and find another source even if it costs me more.

author: ModemHead
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 03:24:01 am
content: Quote from: ianbanks on December 03, 2010, 02:35:33 amOh crap, indeed. With all those keywords in one place eevblog.com will be 404 by morning.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 03:53:50 am
content: Quote from: the_raptor on December 03, 2010, 03:07:00 ambecasue i like digikey, and i've had similar experiences from other companies, they're just trying to obey the law.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 04:10:16 am
content: There is a law in the US that says that "large" part orders are to be treated with suspicion? In that case someone should tell DHS that terrorists make their IED triggers with old cell phones and a few salvaged components, they don't order from retailers.I remember DHS crapping its pants over model rocket motors (because acquiring or making black powder is hard /sarcasm) back in 2002, I had no idea they worried about something as common as electronics components.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 04:47:24 am
content: Yep, I've had this. I think I've done a rant on it before on TheAmpHour.It's a pain in the arse.I do believe it's one of many US government export requirements, but i think Digikey take it more fanatically than Mouser et.alTrue patriots obviously!Dave.

author: Kiwi_frog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 11:00:16 am
content: I brought 10 of there cheap cutters and a bunch of fuses.When it came to question time, I decided to get smart.What is the intended purpose of these parts?I answered, To cut wire and replace fuses, nothing dangerous can be built with wire cutters and fuses.Who is the end user of these parts.I answered, I am, why is the USA government so scared of kiwis cutting wire and replacing fuses.The parts still arrived so they obviously don't actually read it.Mike.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 12:37:59 pm
content: Once you find something that works in their form, just stick to it & use the same every time.If they want a company name, just make one up.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 01:12:48 pm
content: Digikey is one of the top distributors of parts worldwide, I recall.According to:http://www.electronicsadvocate.com/2010/05/13/electronics-distributors-struggle-in-2009/the top distributors by market share in 2009 were Avnet, Arrow Electronics, Future Electronics, Bell Microproducts, Digi-Key, TTI, Newark, DAC, Nu Horizons and Allied, in sales order.Together, all 10 represent 90% of total semiconductor sales, the last 10% being distributed among smaller distributors combined.For scale, Avnet, #1, recorded ~ $7B in sales, Digikey $1B.About 25% of all sales go to the Middle East, Europe and Africa. 20%+ to Asia, and ~ 50% sold domestically in the USA.So it stands to reason, tracking sales of the top distributors is an easy way to identify and locate, who purchasers are, given the parts needed to make IED are easiest to obtain from major distributors.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/10/AR2009011002236_2.htmlBTW, Farnell is not far behind, with sales in Pounds 700M, ~ $1.1B.http://annualreport2010.premierfarnell.com/pf/reports/ar2010/overview/at-a-glance.jsp

author: Strube09
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 01:15:45 pm
content: Hmm,I wonder if there is a law forbiding me from buying components for people and forwarding them.I am in the US and by from digikey several times a week. Everything arrives in two days even if I ship them ground.Although the shipping company might start questioning why I am shipping so much random electronic components out of the country.Strube

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 01:22:01 pm
content: I hate that nosyness of Digikey. That's one of the reasons I don't like to order there.Others like Mouser, TTI or Avnet ask no stupid questions.It's not that I have something to hide, but everytime I order something from DK I am breachinga non disclosure agreement with one of my customers, whom I order the stuff for.Sometimes I have no other choice, though. It's military/aerospace stuff - they're tough on security.I've tried making stuff up but somehow they always get suspicious - it seems I'm no good at lyingto big US companies.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 01:41:55 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on December 03, 2010, 01:12:48 pmNo, it doesn't. All you need (apart from explosives) for a remote detonation IED is a cell phone/walkie talkie and minor parts you can scavenge from domestic electronics. Same as you can make aEFPwith any metal working shop.Tracking electronics retailers to find bomb makers is like tracking coke bottle sales to find anarchists making molotov cocktails.In Afghanistan they can't even track the common explosives because of the huge unregulated fertiliser market (Iraq had a more "modern" agricultural sector so they could track fertiliser to some extent, in Afghanistan it is common for fertilisers based IEDs to be big enough to demolish an MRAP).Of course I would never accuse the DHS of actually doing anything that was worthwhile in stopping terrorism rather then just to justify the DHS budget.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 02:49:10 pm
content: Wait, Mouser didn't even get into the top ten?! They felt a lot bigger than that.Ok, looking at wiki it seems they are part of TTI so I suppose their volume are counted towards that.I was also surprised at DigiKey's rank. Considering that they, Mouser, Farnell and RS are very popular among hobbiest, universities and small companies.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 07:44:01 pm
content: That's true my bad in over simplifying it, but its more that IED, they track goods under all export listings:http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html#cclSpecifically here:http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/txt/ccl3.txtNot just for the creation of weapons, but in toto for the support of a 'hostile' infrastructure.Quote from: the_raptor on December 03, 2010, 01:41:55 pm

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 08:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on December 03, 2010, 07:44:01 pmThere is a difference between asking if a retailer ships to Iran or North Korea and hassling individual buyers.I still remember the stupidity over the worry about PS2's getting sold to the "axis of evil" because they were so hugely powerful and could be used to control ICBM's or cruise missiles! (/rolleyes) Or when cryptographic programs were technically a munition and subject to export restrictions. It would be nice if mindless government bureaucracies would stop wasting money being jackasses when they could be doing something useful