What happens after having a cheap chinese soldering station for some time. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2014, 07:05:15 pm
content: Hi.I've seen topics regarding cheap soldering stations, reviewing them and showing their features but i never saw what they look like after months of use.So about a half a year ago i bought myself a cheap ( best i could afford ) soldering station.It was the KADA 936D+ ( oh yeah the plus! ) as it seemed to be pretty much the best option ( 50 bucks delivered to my door ).The soldering inside was nice, about three adjustment pots ( i have no idea which are which ) and it had heatshrink all around, all the wires used connectors, which were glued down.But the soldering iron is where it starts to getting bad, i'm talking Really bad.First of all is the tip.When it was new it didn't look that bad, but after the half a year or so it got just awful, the nickel plating just disappeared and the copper ( yeah real copper! ) started oxidizing it's way to hell.I didn't have any spare tips so i tried the best i could to make it a little better.The base of the tip looks like it's real copper, but the tip looks like some CuFe crap.Of course while putting the tip back on the heater element broke ( don't ask me how i did it ), it does reveal the insiders of the element, the loop thingy on the end is the heat sensor.Next is the crappy plastic iron holder.It had a little stamped sheet metal holder for the sponge ( which was utter crap ), it was painted black, but the paint quickly came off and the metal started rusting.Of course since it's plastic some oopsies may ruin your day.The station seems like it does a pretty good lob at sensing temperature, touching the little loop sensor to water makes the tempereature go down to 200oC in an instant, making the coil glow red hot.After all i'm satisfied with this station ( again: best i could afford ) and i do hope that with the new hakko heater and tip it will work at least somewhat decent, certainly better than a 65W automotive iron i'll tell you that much.Ps: a little question: how much resistance does a genuine hakko heater element sensor have at 200oC ?edit: changed the title a little.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2014, 09:40:02 pm
content: When I saw the title, I thought the board you were soldering got fried or something. What you have described seem more like adurability issueof the cheap stuff rather thanconsequences. Actual consequences seem to be: you need to keep some extra tips in stock.The Chinese cheap tips is less than $1USD each on eBay. Your experience of it wearing out in 6 month so figure a 3 month change-tip cycle. That is merely 33 cents of tip per month.(I ignored the broken heater element since you made it sound like it was an accident during tip removal).Assuming you are paying (a very low) 50 cents per KWH for electricity, a dollar of electricity only buys you 30 hours of electrical power for that 65W station. A dollar for 3 months of tip wear is hardly excessive. Had you saved a mere $20 because of the lower cost, that would be a 5 years supply of replacement tip.I use a 937D Yihua branded (50W, no plus) for over a year now at $46 delivered. I use it about 8-10 hours per week on average. When the station was new, I was expecting issues and did had one problem with it: one of the two hand-soldered plastic plug sockets on the main board had bad joints causing the temperature adjustment to change on vibration. Since I fixed that, I have not encountered any other problems in the last year. 90% of the time I use the 1.2mm chisel. I keep an extra tip in stock but thus far (1 year) that tip is still "almost like new". Fingers crossed - hope my luck holds out.Rick

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2014, 10:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 21, 2014, 09:40:02 pmThe stock tip on mine had black oxide not only on the outside but on the inside where the heater was too.The transformer inside is only about 30W but i think it's enough. Before i took off the tip i tried testing if the iron would sense the temperature drop if i put the tip in water ( 6-8mm in ) but nothing happened, i thought that the temperature sensing was made up, but it turned out that it had a pretty poor thermal connection inside.As i said i've got a hakko heater and two chisel tips ordered.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2014, 10:42:11 pm
content: QuoteIt would have been foolish to expect anything else.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2014, 11:07:18 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on December 21, 2014, 10:29:16 pmLucky for me, mine came with a replacement heater element as well. So I don't have to worry about the element itself for now.From this forum, I learned to think of tips as a consumable part. When I was thinking about getting stand-by tips, I was thinking about hakko-tips but rejected that. I figure if I wore out $10 dollars worth of tips, I am doing so much soldering that I should reassess my entire set up.re: the black oxidesWhat kind of flux do you use? I think itmayhave something to do with cheap chinese flux. I misplaced my regular flux paste and I got a 1oz cheap flux while I try to find my jar of better flux. It has a nice metal container that I like. (what a way to select flux... I like the container) When I use that cheap flux, I have a lot of black stuff than with my regular rosin flux, and it runs more than my regular flux. I can see if I dip my tip deep into those cheap flux (and the tip is not screw on well), that cheap flux can run into the inside of the tip rather easily.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2014, 11:49:30 pm
content: QuoteWhen I got my station I promptly orderd another spare iron, spare heater and a small assortment of tips. The occasional changes of tips ensure they have not stuck on the element and risk damage upon removal.IIRC there were 2 different types of heaters, usually the sellers list what model iron/station they fit, make sure you get the right one.It is beneficial to have some "meatier" tips so as to not have to crank up the heat for those heat hungry jobs you occasionally encounter. I'm sure that has some effect on tip and element life.Too much heat will burn the flux off and leave that black residue.Also beware of tip and shroud/holder fit.If the tip is not bottomed on the element and held tight, the element will overheat nevermind the poor heat transfer as well.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 02:21:48 am
content: I didn't change the heater element on my Hakko 936 clone (made by tenma) but since it's compatible with the Hakko iron I did order and fitted a genuine hakko 908-CK conversion kit and I also got an extra 5 900L-T-3.2D tips from tequipment.netI'm happy with it and I'm still on the tip that came with the conversion kit.Edit: I like having the large thermal mass, but I do at times use the tip that came with it when I need a medium mass, and it's still in a pretty good shape (the clone tip that is).

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 07:10:01 am
content: Guess what happens with a genuine Hakko soldering station after twenty years?It still works perfectly.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 08:31:49 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 22, 2014, 07:10:01 amThe OP was talking about tips. Your soldering tip is probably less than 20 years old.I have a 30+ year old cheap soldering iron that still works. It works just fine till last year - so worn that the chisel part of the tip is almost all gone and the body of the tip split open (a pit about the size of a grain of rice). The iron works, just need a new tip. Rather then hunting for replacement tip for what is now a defunct brand, I used that as an excuse to upgrade and modernize last year.I am all for buying minimum as long as it fits the requirement, and lasting long is not always one of them. Too many working things (like a 8086 laptop with 64K ram) is useless long before it stops working.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 03:58:39 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 22, 2014, 08:31:49 amRead again. He was talking about the construction quality of the station, not just the tips.And the real Hakko tips last a very long time when cared for properly. Not 20 years, but certainly on the order of years for a hobbyist or low volume use iron. My iron is still on the original heating element - knock on ESD mat....I do understand the very real motivation to buy a knockoff soldering station back when Hakko was $300+USD, but now you can get a Hakko station for under $100. Why mess around with crap when quality is so affordable now?Also, some of the issues the OP is having looks due to care - or lack thereof - of the iron. The worst thing one can do is to load up an iron with flux then leave it to cook all day. A good iron will come up to temp in literally a minute or two, so there's no reason to leave it on unless you're actively soldering.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 06:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 22, 2014, 03:58:39 pmI solder almost every day and some times i use the iron continuosly for up to 3 hours ( mostly when desoldering stuff ), so i guess tip wear like this is inevitable.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 08:19:35 pm
content: There are a few more clones about that the tips and pencil work just lovely 2 years in, the issue is the temp sensor in the pencil starts to go open circuit, and the tip guide seems to weld to the tip, meaning you need a new sheath when you replace the tip :/, and its not something they sell as a spare part... to which end we have ended up having to replace the pencils about every second year, with the same fault arriving on even the third batch, (Its company tools, so i dont get a say that it would be cheaper to buy genuine)My personal hakko, i love, not had any issues with him,

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 09:38:43 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 22, 2014, 03:58:39 pmFirst, I do agreewith you with the flux and possible care issue. I pointed out in another reply that I can see with excess flux, it might have enabled the black oxidation stuff to get to the inside the tip possibly getting on to the heat element.Quote from: LabSpokane on December 22, 2014, 03:58:39 pmQuote from the OP: "After all i'm satisfied with this station ( again: best i could afford ) and..."$100-$50=$50To some, $50 is nothing; to some, $50 is huge - particularly in this economy here in the USA. I am not sure how big a difference $50 makes to the OP, but he did say the $50 station is "best he could afford."Most of us have to make do at times. I rather be positive by pointing out: hey, it is a good choice whenever you meet your needs. So, I reminded him "You are spending less on replacement tips than on electricity running the darn thing". Even if he stays with clone tips, $50 would be 12 years worth of tip supply at least ($1 each/3 months without buying it in bulk). Best of all, he doesn't have to shell out $50 all in one shot.I too recognize potential issues with cheaper stuff. I pointed out I expected problems with my similar cheap clone station and did had to re-solder one of the plugs to the main board. But fact remains, it meets his needs with mere tip replacement as the rest he said he is satisfied. With that being given, in my view, he made a good choice."If they have no potato to eat, why don't they just eat cakes?"Folklore had it Marie Antoinette said that regarding the hungry farmers' protest which eventually started the French Revolution...[EDIT:]LabSpokane,I initially had that quote to point out everyone, and myself included, at times forgot about other's limitations. But I realized after I posted that this may be misunderstood as my saying you are insensitive. So, I added this to emphasize that I am not saying you are insensitive.Rick

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 10:45:29 pm
content: Rick,No offense taken. I need to use more smileys.I hope I didn't demean anyone's budgetary means. I'm actually jealous of the OP, since he actually gets to do electronics work 3+hours a day. I miss those days.For someone that does that much work soldering, maybe he'll be able to treat himself one of these days.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 12:59:41 am
content: @Rick LawActually for me 50$ is about a year's worth of saving up.I remember when i used to solder stuff with an old 65W automotive iron, i even did SMD, although it was a huge pain to do so, i got the station when my old iron made a freaking light show when dying out ( sparks everywhere )I just got an old GRUNDIG TV to take apart but i can't desolder anything for now....argh, the pain!To be honest I'm obsessed with desoldering and sorting parts, i don't know why but i love it.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 03:28:53 am
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on December 23, 2014, 12:59:41 amHang in there, buddy. Future is always bright even in the darkest of days, for the future can be as bright as you make it to be.I am not sure if I was just imagining: I noticed desoldering takes a much heavier toll on my iron - ON longer as I push and pull to loosen things, old joints appear to need more heat for old solder, angle is harder with an already populated board, all the damn legs are still soldered when you try to loosen the first one...Since I noticed that, I use a separate really really really cheap 60W iron for desolder heavy/unwanted stuff - like taking off a heat sink, or removing parts that is already broken. When desoldering parts that I intend to keep in good shape, I switch back to my regular iron.Oh, I was also expecting I may need another iron to fix this Yihua sooner or later and I did needed it sooner rather than later. I consider this super-cheap iron a throw-away. $1.99 plus $2-ish for delivery. You should consider if a super-cheap iron for the throw away parts an appropriate addition. When removing something (that is in the way like a heat sink) Why waste a good iron (tip).(Beside, it was exciting plugging it in for the first time... At <$2, I was not sure if it would literally go up in smoke.)RickEDIT: I notice you are in the Baltic. The $2 I quoted is USD and it was from US domestic.

author: jobog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 07:57:16 am
content: I have a Stahl TCSS soldering station that quit working. After taking it apart I find it uses the zd919-2 circuit board which seems to be pretty common in a lot of soldering stations under several different names. The resistor, R20, which runs from terminal one on a BT136 triac to ground has burnt beyond recognition. I have searched for a schematic to find the value of this resistor without any luck. Does anyone out there know the value of this resistor? If you have a Stahl TCSS station could you open it up and check? The resistor is visible right at the top of the board by just removing the cover from your station. It is the large blue resistor. I am not sure but I think this same zd919-2 is used in the Weller wes51.Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.Joe

author: LEDAero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 08:30:42 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 22, 2014, 07:10:01 amAnd how much did that Hakko cost? I have a genuine Weller adjustable soldering iron - the transformer still works great, but the handpiece cable has fallen to bits. Does that make it bad or just indicate that things wear out? It could be thirty years old or it could be ten - I've had it about 8 years. For the cost of the replacement handset, I bought a YiHua with hot air - something I wouldn't buy in a Hakko or Weller because I don't have $800 spare.I always have a chuckle at people from rich Western countries that disparage budget-priced Chinese equipment and look down their nose at it, as if it was something they trod in.When you buy a $49 soldering station and it doesn't perform as well as a $250-1000 soldering station, should you be surprised, or should you be surprised at how damned good it is for $49?I get the same thing from people about buying Chinese-made Arduinos - they back away like you are going to give them something, but in over 120 units now, the only failures have been of my making. And at $3-4 each, I have done far more with them than I would have ever done if I had to buy the 'genuine' units from Italy.Its the same for all manner of items we regularly buy - I can buy a $24 Bluetooth module from the US or a $4 one from China - they perform, to all intents and purposes, identically. Maybe the US one has a couple of meters more range and it has better documentation, but that doesn't matter to me. My users stand next to the object when using Bluetooth - 8M or 10M range doesn't matter.It really gets old the amount of flak given to Chinese manufacturing - especially from Americans. They are building to a price - was that not clear?We get it, it's not as good asJapaneseUS-made stuff. Does it do the job? Is it well-priced? Does it matter?

author: LEDAero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 08:32:04 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 21, 2014, 09:40:02 pmYep. What he said.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 06:31:12 pm
content: QuoteThose tend to be the same people who complained loudly that their cheaply acquired Chinese knock-offs cannot compete with the far more expensive real things for quality and services.When you want BMW experience, buy a BMW.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 07:52:59 pm
content: Quote from: LEDAero on January 19, 2015, 08:30:42 amA Hakko better than mine is $90 USD now.I'm not bashing China. I LOVE the Chinese Arduinos too. Same experience as you. And I can't stand the "Wun Hung Low" comments. I find them very racist.My point was that Hakko makes an iron that's mor than twice as good as its Chinese copies for less than twice as much, making it a solid long term investment.If my comment came off as racist or anti China, I sincerly apologize. I have been buying a lot of stuff from Shenzen lately and it's been nearly a universally good experience.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 10:25:03 pm
content: QuoteNot sure why anyone would be offended but China does make tons of low quality stuff. You would expect that from a country that's going through evolution, from low quality / low value-add stuff to high quality / high value-add stuff. Samething the Japanese and Koreans went through.

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 11:28:50 pm
content: Quote from: jobog on January 19, 2015, 07:57:16 amAfter some poking around in Google, I found this gif. You may want to check some of the other values to see if this looks like the correct board. Resistor that you pointed out appears to be 0.33 ohmhttp://elcoms.my.contact.bg/zd-919.gif

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 11:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on January 19, 2015, 07:52:59 pm+1It does seem to be unique to North America though due to the pricing on 120V vs. 230V versions, so location is critical to one's perspective on this ^.Quote from: wilfred on January 19, 2015, 10:54:01 pmIt would account for part of it though, as 1st tier manufacturers tend to opt for cutting features instead of quality to produce their entry level products. Add proper quality control and customer service types of things, and of course a healthy enough MSRP to support a dealer network, and you get there.

author: jobog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 10:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: cosmicray on January 19, 2015, 11:28:50 pm

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2015, 11:20:50 pm
content: Quote from: LEDAero on January 19, 2015, 08:30:42 amWhat did you do with this cable? My 30+ years old weller works great. No cable, transformer,... issues.

author: Jidis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2015, 11:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: LEDAero on January 19, 2015, 08:30:42 amYou guys should be thankful if therearereplacement handsets (despite the high price). The only reason I have my Chinese desoldering station is that Weller stopped producing tips for the one I paid many hundred for. I'm thinking that with as many of these as they're pumping out, tips will probably be around a while, but at least it will be a much less expensive paperweight if not.Take CarePS- In their defense, here's an attachment of the gun I use for heavy stuff (inherited from Uncle).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2015, 06:21:27 pm
content: Quote from: Jidis on January 21, 2015, 11:44:02 pmYou do know that that soldering gun has a lifetime warranty on it from Pep Boys? It is older than me, though I have the Bosch version, which is very good for doing soldering that is too big for a small soldering iron, but where the MAPP torch or the acetylene torch is a little overkill.

author: Jidis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2015, 07:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 22, 2015, 06:21:27 pmAnd just my luck, something with such a great warranty never ends up breaking on me.I'd love to see the look on their faces if I went in there with that receipt though.This thread got me wondering on those desoldering tips though if I could turn one out of copper bar on a lathe I got. Didn't know if unplated tips would work for something like that. I've got a few wide flat ones I ground for tinning boards which have done OK, but I thought I heard that solid copper doesn't hold up too long.