Equipment to automate testing of RCD/RCCB/GFCI's? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 12:23:53 pm
content: I'm looking for equipment or a way to automate testing of RCD's (IEC 61009-1 / 62423).Most formfactors you can get RCD testing in are installation testers, eg: Fluke 1662.Requiring a human to setup the test, press the button and write down the results.I'm looking for something that is automated, setup, test and results via software. No user pressing start buttons.Automation excluding resetting the breaker itself. The reason is to test an entire panel fully automated.Now there are some companies (like megger and omicron) selling cases for primary injection kits for testing breakers in-circuit. These are also often not automated. Still require a users to press a button and read the result.Basically what I was trying to avoid was to have to develop my own using an programmable AC/DC source and an oscilloscope. But it looks like nobody need this? You can buy calibrators for them though.Or is there perhaps some other way to do this I'm not seeing?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 12:51:41 pm
content: sevral multi function testers will run a semi automatic rcd test and store the results,but your still going to have to tell it when to start the test,for example the megger MFT1721https://uk.megger.com/multifunction-installation-testers-mft1731,-mft1721-and-mft1711

author: bastl_r
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 01:11:19 pm
content: Make sure that the tester can also test B-RCDs!In our company two years ago, because it was cheaper, a Benning IT115 was purchased which can only test A-RCDs according to specifications.Now there was before Christmas just another IT130 in addition...regards

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 02:05:01 pm
content: If a mft is overkill maybe the mega rcdt330https://www.test-meter.co.uk/megger-rcdt330-downloadable-rcd-tester

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 03:20:27 pm
content: With those devices I need someone to put the knobs in the right mode and press the start button. The exact thing I need to automate.Imaging attaching an entire distribution board to a big test bench which validates connections and insulation as well as testing the RCD's intalled (normal, time delayed, type B/F).Many people need a tester for installed panels, but what if you build the panels?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 04:33:56 pm
content: The time taken to set up the meter and press the button surely is minute compared to the time taken to attach the test leads and then reset the RCD after each test,you only need to hit the button once at the beginning of the test sequence .Also even with automation your going to need to tell it what type of test to carry out,i bet you can sect the ranges on the megger quicker than scrolling through menus on an automated tester,plus with physical switches you wont lose your setting if your tester gets turns off

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 04:40:41 pm
content: It would be worth asking Megger a direct question about this as they may advertise the RCD Testers for the general electrician but might have something in thier catalogue that will do what you need to do.I notice on their website they do relay testers that look fairly industrial.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 06:31:16 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on January 06, 2023, 03:20:27 pmWhat is the point in testing an RCD/RCBO/GFCI before it's installed and with the fixed wiring in place? The trip time will vary depending on the length of the fixed wiring anyway.I've built numerous panel boards and distribution boards, but always in place, never prior to installation. Have done that with control boards, but that's different. Only time I've seen a mains board built off-site is when it was a large custom job that had to be moved with a fork-truck, and the manufacturer wouldn't provide a warranty for it unless they built it up.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 06:54:43 pm
content: QuoteBack covering,so when the onsite sparky says it dont work or the panel goes bang because someone read the drawings wrong the manufacturer can point to there pre delivery test sheet.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:20:57 am
content: What is the point?The panels are for rent, and need to be tested and these results need to be recorded for regulation reasons.Of course you can have a sparky use the tester to validate the panels just like as it is installed. But this is quite slow when doing inventory of returned panels.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:48:58 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 06, 2023, 06:54:43 pmHow is the panel going to go "bang"? It's a DB, mains in, mains out, and whether it's one or three phase, if a sparky wires that so wrong it goes bang, he's not a real sparky and he's off my site.Electronic devices like modern RCD/RCBO/GFCI can test good then fail the next time they are used. I fail to see the efficiency of doing more than a visual inspection before sending out,howeverI can see why you would want to test returned items, in this apparent rental scenario (damage, repair levy etc).I would suggest that the MTBF on a decent brand would be much longer than the likely service life due to physical damage in this scenario though.Schneider do WiFi connectivity for their RCBOs now, they tried to sell it to us. You can remotely switch as well as monitor each circuit. Don't know how well it would fit your requirements, as I don't recall if it can monitor trip times, but since it's software controlled, potentially it could be a way to automate.Probably the only way you're going to get a test rig exactly like you want is a custom/semi-custom build; I don't know of anyone making multichannel RCD testers, but I'm sure the likes of Schneider Electric, Crabtree, MK (Honeywell) etc would have them on their production lines.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 12:03:37 pm
content: Some of my customers make fancy extension leads, some of them have RCD/GFI stuff on them and they test it before going out but I must admit I only see Hipot testers on the bench but they do have custom software for recording results.I can see the point in testing stuff prior to going out the door. For event use the idea of a pretested board with just the various 32A, 16A, and 13A connectors coming off would solve some faffing. Less for the onsite Elf and safety person to flap about as the bodge artists (onsite electricians) haven't messed with it much.Also, many industries now prefer not to have people typing stuff in. They trust the computer more than the person entering the data in.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 01:08:07 pm
content: QuoteAnd if its multiple inputs ,including ups with bypass and generator going to multiple outputs,all interlinkable if you set the right combination of castle keys?Quotenothing uncommon there,at least for reputable companys,davedouble decks on the other hand....however your still required under BS7909 to carry out onsite testing and inspection,

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 04:43:08 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 07, 2023, 01:08:07 pmWe come back to the "if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it" rule. I accept not all sparkies understand this stuff. If it happens here I expect them to come and ask me, or someone else that knows what's what, and not just try to wing it.Quote from: themadhippy on January 07, 2023, 01:08:07 pmExactly this!

author: Robert763
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:43:34 pm
content: If you have enough throughput of panels to warrant it a custom machine can be made. I've made such equipment. However the cost would likey be enough to train and employ soneone to do manual testing for a couple of years at least.Robert G8RPI.

author: Robert763
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:49:00 pm
content: I note the OP is in the Netherlands so UK rules probably don't apply.Even in the UK if these are mobile distribution panels you would be expected to test them every time you plugged them in. They would be portable appliances not fixed installations.Robert G8RPI.