Goodbye from Caffe Macs... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 09:25:09 pm
content: Dear Managers, Owners, Employers, Supervisors who read this blog,Please do not cancel "Bring your Child to Work Day" because of this one incident..Not everyone is this brazenly stupid with corporate intellectual property.In fact I'm shocked that his co-workers allowed filming to continue...See:https://gizmodo.com/apple-reportedly-fires-engineer-after-daughters-iphone-1819952027Steve

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 09:35:44 pm
content: It wouldn't surprise me if this is mostly a publicity thing. It isn't the first time a super secret prototype gets leaked. It may have not been orchestrated, but as the saying goes, you shouldn't let a crisis go to waste.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:06:58 pm
content: I did think of that before posting.Steve

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 29, 2017, 09:35:44 pmDone by which side? I would not think it is a good message for Apple that they had to fire someone in such circumstances.But yes, being loose with trade secrets like this, will most definitely get you in trouble.Videos released bu journalists in a more or less controlled manner is one thing, industrial espionage kind of videos are very different, IMO.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:38:20 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 29, 2017, 10:26:20 pmLike I said, it may not have been orchestrated, but we can be very sure the PR department is making the most of it. By blowing it up like this you both warn other employees to be careful and, more importantly, get some nice media attention. Apple is very good at constructing hype. Though it wouldn't surprise me if it were to be fully constructed either. The timing is absolutely perfect, with the phone already being revealed, but not quite yet launched.We should remember that an employee lost an about to be released phone is a bar a couple of years ago, which sounds a lot like this incident. It's also no secret that the response for the iPhone 8 has been lukewarm.And, let's be real: nothing really exciting got revealed here, just a quick look at some minor features. Adding a bit of scandal to a minor reveal might just grab that extra bit of attention.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:41:51 pm
content: It's Apple...they deserved every bit of it. (WARNING,incoming!)Leak what corporate secrets? Apple has nothing worth keeping secret. From what I read it's exactly what you would expect from a new iPhone, a phone with the same avarage hardware and little hardware features with the only "new features" being some shitty wanky hipster software features that on any normal phone would just be added in an update. But no, Apple has to release an entirely new machine just for:QuoteIf anything leaks should in theory demonstrate my point. But alas, hipsters will never understand.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:43:24 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 29, 2017, 10:41:51 pmThat's how clever marketing works.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:43:55 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 29, 2017, 10:41:51 pmIf all of this is true, then it may be just to make an example for future leaks. To be fair, visual appearance, and most feature descriptions were leaked way before the official announcement.Not sure why this would work as a marketing either. I'm not sure how this is supposed to convince someone to buy this thing.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 10:56:19 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 29, 2017, 10:43:55 pmI hope it does the opposite so sales tank and Apple finally starts losing. Mybe they'll finally learn their lesson and stop producing average and just adiquate crap. We need to bring back the old commercials that used to make fun of Apple (remember those?).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 11:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 29, 2017, 10:43:55 pmMarketing based on rational arguments hasn't really been a thing since the early 60s. Since then, playing on emotion has become the norm. Being part of something, or being different. Sounds familiar, right?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 11:57:32 pm
content: I think this might incite the wrath of the powers that be - not the emoji:Quote

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 12:38:07 am
content: They can cry like the babies they are all they want but it won't make a damn bit of difference when what we found out was the lamest we could have exepected. I mean, what are they afraid of, that someone would dare copyinferior technology?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 01:24:56 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on October 29, 2017, 11:57:32 pm^^^^ this.Apple’s employee NDAs leave little to the imagination (I know, I’ve signed one before), and this guy was a fool for allowing his daughter to even hold the damned thing, never mind post a video of it. But Tim Cook’s warmer-and-cuddlier Apple may not have made a big deal of that alone, it being post-keynote. Whereas sharing confidential information like codenames... that’s beyond dumb, it’s tantamount to walking into Jonny Ive’s office and taking a dump on his desk, as far as job security goes. And I think most big companies would react the same to an employee sharing internal information.P.S. it’s called Caffè Macs.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 01:35:47 am
content: quote:"P.S. it’s called Caffè Macs."Fixed the title for you..Steve

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 01:54:08 am
content: Apple is going to try and sue every ever loving penny from them. They protect their crap like a swarm of hornets. We've seen what they did when someone dared copy their rectangular phone design.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 01:56:13 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 30, 2017, 01:54:08 amNah, termination is as much as Apple can do in this case. They pulled the video, and that would be the only reason for a lawsuit.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 05:18:43 am
content: Company trade secrets... On display in the cafeteria. Sounds like they were real concerned about keeping it secret.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 05:20:15 am
content: Quote from: ConKbot on October 30, 2017, 05:18:43 amIt was not on display. It is a work phone that she took from her dad. I assume he also unlocked it for her.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 11:02:05 am
content: From a company like Apple that is infamous for avoiding paying taxes in the countries they sell their products to, making money is the only reason they exist. Apple leaks information on their new products in advance to delay potential purchasers of competition products. The whole story is likely a load of spin created by the corporate desperadoes at Apple.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 12:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 30, 2017, 11:02:05 amLeaking if Apple "secrets" should hasten the purchase of anything else. They don't need to tease anything, sheeple hipsters will always flock to them like fleas to a dog despite all of there announcements screaming: "hey, we're releasing a new phone that would have been amazing five years ago but now it's just average and worse then everyone elses. But hey, we'll throw in some stupid simple software crap just so it's not the same as last years, so come any buy our overpriced crap anyway!"

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 01:14:03 pm
content: If Apple would build an oscilloscope...Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 03, 2014, 06:08:24 pmSorry, I couldn't resist...-George

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 05:49:25 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on October 30, 2017, 01:14:03 pmTo be fair, Apple rarely tries to compete on technical specifications, even if they're actually superior. They seem to have moved that way since Jobs left, though.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:14:21 pm
content: I am actually surprised by the negative comments about this firing. This employee was careless with company confidential material. He shown the iPhone with sensitive information to his daughter, that was mistake number one. Worst, he let her play with it. Even worst still, he let her video it.If I am looking for a developer with intend to develop something for a market with loads of competitors, I would need the confident that confidential material stay confidential. NDA or not, I consider it common sense that one should handle company-confidential material with care.I feel bad for the guy - very bad for the guy. But, I think this firing is appropriate.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:38:14 pm
content: Of course he deserved it, that man is going to have a terrible time finding a new job now. The fact that it was Apple only nullified any potential impact. Had it been any other company, like Samsung or Google, we wouldn't be laughing as the damage would have been far more severe.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:42:19 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 30, 2017, 07:38:14 pmBecause...?

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 08:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 30, 2017, 01:24:56 amThis is!!I hate Apple and Macs, but I totally agree with them here. Break clear rules --> get fired.It doesn't matter if what you have done is not dangerous... this time.Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 08:15:21 pm
content: We've established this, Apple is predictable. I mean, it just so happened that what was leaked was exactly the same lame crap we would would expect from Apple, just some stupid new software features and hardware that's always behind. Had it been another company, it could have actually been some new and exiting idea actually worth stealing. Of course, it was still stupid, as if Apple had invented something new, they would have suffered actual IP damage. It's like someone throwing around explosives and they just happened to not go off this time.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 08:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 30, 2017, 05:49:25 pmWell, it is widely accepted that Apple's products target group is far away (by magnitudes of intelligence measure) from the T&M products target group.I think that Apple is providing their (vastly unthinking, with a few exceptions perhaps) target group with nice but overpriced iCrap gadgets to be accessing their FaceBook account 2,167 times per day; or with trendy iCrap gadgets in order for their target group to try to sugarcoat their incompetent existence by flashing in public what they can afford to be purchasing...On the second part of the quoted sentence above, what exactly competitive products are the overpriced Apple products superior to?QuoteThus the Apple productscaustic analogyto the T&M ones, in my previous message!By the way,this is why I despise that company (Apple) and detest their tactics(with more messages of mine following this one).Now, sinceappearances are deceiving--especially in the corporate world-- and you have already suspected a possible fault play in your first reply at this thread, let me confirm thatnegative campaigning(whose mental father was Freud's American nephew,Edward Bernays) is a much more powerful marketing strategy than conventional advertising, especially against the more simple-minded counterparts of our (global) community who are actively denying any'conspiracy theories'by unconditionally accepting the'coincidence theories'antipode of the same bipolar mind-trapping concept...This was exactly where Steve Jobs excelled, by introducing theaccidentally leaked gossiptype of per-announcementof their (religiously defendedby their fanbois) iCrap; just exactly what this specific 'unfortunate' incident ('Aw! Look at what miracle my father [who will be generously compensated for agreeing 'to take one for the team'] designed for Apple') gave birth to this discussions thread.-George<EDIT>: Additional information.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 09:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on October 30, 2017, 08:26:21 pmI will only answer the question in which area Apple products could be deemed to be superior on the promise that no flame war will ensue, for I have no interest in one and will not participate. I have no interest in defending the brand, nor in attacking it.For instance, the Apple SoC tend to be faster than competitors, often a lot faster. This can empirically be established by running benchmarks. Also, thanks to platform being under the control of one party, security seems to be better than that of competing phones, with maybe some specific niche exceptions. If you read up on the technology used, the security built into the devices is fairly impressive.Even though Apple on a rare occasion has entered the specifications race, it still cannot be said that they rely on it to draw customers. The integral experience is still their main focus. In a market where everyone can basically buy the same hardware to put in their device, I think that is a fairly smart move, even though I don't quite agree with the result.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:00:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 30, 2017, 09:42:00 pmFair enough!Yet, the crucial subject matter of this thread is not about Apple's SoC superiority on their benchmarks results or security; it is about their polices impact on ourPolis; thus, it is political by definition.On the other hand I will, of course, respect your personal aspect on that issue.Take care,-George

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on October 30, 2017, 10:00:02 pmI'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 30, 2017, 10:03:54 pmI am saying that:1. The subject matter of this thread is not about Apple's SoC superiority or inferiority.2. The subject matter of this thread is POLITICAL, since a company's policy or decision actually affects the life of a human being (along with their family members) that used to be working for that company while now is not.3. I respect your choice not to have a public opinion on the aforementioned company's policy or decision.4. I am wishing you well, by my final prompt under the terms 'Take care' just before my signature.Was this clear enough for you, or should I expand in a greater length of detail?-George

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:16:58 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on October 30, 2017, 10:14:01 pmThe political part confused me, especially with some Polis thrown in. I don't quite consider it being that, though it's an interesting view of the subject.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 30, 2017, 10:16:58 pmMy dear EEVBlogger, anything that can be shared between two or more members of a Polis (or a Politeia) is, by definition, a political matter.For example, a baby's crying to the mother for more milk, is indeed a political expression! Undoubtedly, because a member (the baby) of a Politeia (the household, which is one of the narrowest types of Polis), argues (cries, which is a form of verbal communication the infant [from in+fari: unable to speak] can master) with another member (the mother) about a decision of the second member to stop their interaction of feeding.You should never confuse the radically different terms 'Polis/Politeia' and 'Political Party.' While the former entity is our own actual communities, the latter one is a parasitic entity aiming to keep the former entity 'divided and, thus, conquered.' This has been a clever product of an insidious machination of the Ruling Classes (or, The Clergy), which is the main parasitic entity that harvests (or, more accurately, 'steals at gunpoint') the product of the former entities toil. Everything else belongs to the sphere of the various utopian theories that were deliberately created in order to keep the masses confused.Even telling a joke to your social counterpart(s) to amuse them, is a political expression!-George

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:32:25 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 30, 2017, 11:02:05 amYou mean the Apple-Ireland thing? Where the EU is declaring to Appleand Irelandthat Ireland needs to charge Apple more tax, and Ireland doesn't want to?There's no question that Apple uses every damned tax loophole in existence. But so does every other damned company, because the lawdemandsthat publicly traded companies do everything possible to maximize shareholder value above all else. So Apple (and everyone else) could either ignore the law about maximizing shareholder value, and comply with both the spirit and letter of the tax law, or it could comply with the shareholder value laws, and comply with the letter, but not the spirit, of the tax law. From a legal liability standpoint, it's obvious which they must do.I've said it before and I'll say it again: we can't get mad at entities (whether corporations or living people) who use legal loopholes (regardless of whether the loophole is accidental or intentional). If we don't like what the loophole allows, then get mad at your lawmakers for not changing the law to close the loophole.As for "leaking" pre-release info… huh? Leaks hurt. Apple does announce things when it's time, but that's not a leak. And this incident isn't a pre-release leak, either, since the product was already announced and journalists given ample time to use them. This incident is about an idiot employee who stupidly let his daughter play with the thing, and then even more stupidly let her see confidential information (info she's not entitled to seeat all, whether shared publicly or not), and then even more monumentally stupid, allowed her to film said confidential info and share it online. Nothing about the iPhone X is confidential. The notes file with secret code names, and whatever those internal QR codes were that were mentioned? Not OK to release.Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 30, 2017, 12:48:13 pmThe Android world can't evenkeep upwith the iPhones ofoneyear ago!https://thenextweb.com/apple/2017/09/12/apples-new-iphone-x-already-destroying-android-devices-g/Apple is not aggressive about adding features (they wait until the technology is mature enough for it to work well, as opposed to throwing in half-baked stuff that works poorly, like Samsung's first attempt at facial unlocking), but the core components, in particular the SoC, literally set the bar for the industry.Quote from: A Hellene on October 30, 2017, 10:14:01 pmThat's not political. It's an HR problem. I knowexactlywhat it's like to become an Apple employee, because I once was one. If there isonething they make abundantly clear during the hiring, it's that confidentiality is something they don't fuck around with. This guy did (or permitted to happen) something monumentally stupid, something thatany other employee would have warned him to not do. I honestly don't know what other outcome he could possibly have expected.Quote from: A Hellene on October 30, 2017, 10:23:09 pmNope, just no. That isn't what politics means in English. (It doesn't have to mean the same thing in Greek.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:47:37 pm
content: I just finished watching the videos and reading a bit more about it. Honestly, I don't know what people are talking about with the notes and QR codes, cause I don't see them in the video. At least in the 720p YouTube video (no 1080p or higher offered to me), I can't make out any such things. I could see that Notes was opened, but not read anything. Maybe it was clearly visible in the original upload, which is now gone.It seems that the crux of the matter is that he violated the rule (which I know of, too, since I have been inside 1 Infinite Loop before) that photography is strictly prohibited inside the campus. That he was showing prerelease hardware was probably just a cherry on top, since that's also a violation. I've never sponsored a visitor, but I assume that the employee who's sponsoring a visitor is also responsible for that visitor's conduct.Was any real harm done? Honestly, no. But as I said, Apple makes these rulesextremelyclear to employees, which is why the girl's followup video, where she talks about Apple needing to make the rules "clearer" to employees, is so odd. I mean, I worked at Apple retail, and so on a daily basis had to evaluate what information I could say to a member of the public and what I had to keep confidential. And it wasn't that hard. For an Apple engineer, it's a much simpler equation: you never shareanythingpublicly, and the public includes your family. (In fact, you don't share outside of your product team.)So either this guy thought he was smart enough to not get caught (?!?), or he didn't understand the policies (!!?!?!?!) — either way, it means his judgment or trustworthiness were not what is expected, and management and/or HR decided he was a greater liability than asset.Of course I do feel sorry for him losing his job, that's never a nice thing, even more so in a place that's so ruinously expensive, but at the same time, this outcome was pretty much inevitable.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:55:40 pm
content: That makes me wonder though. If these rules are so clear and well known to everyone, why isn't anyone alarmed by someone filming very overtly in the cafeteria? Amongst the dozens of people eating there, shouldn't there be at least one to warn his colleague this isn't appropriate? In every workplace I've been, everyone is made responsible for enforcing the rules. Many eyes make light work. It's not much different from safety, except that this isn't about bodily harm, but company secrets. Yet people just seem to take it as people would on the streets.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 12:04:22 am
content: I'm in the "it was a carefully contrived publicity stunt" camp.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:27:16 am
content: Quote from: rdl on October 31, 2017, 12:04:22 amNot in a million years. The X is Apple's most anticipated phone in years, muddying the water with a non story like this is not how Apple rolls.The idea that some consumers were considering an Android and then decide to wait because Apple announce details of a new phone is even ridiculous IMO. Most people who buy Android do so because of price, and a small but dogged percentage do so out of antipathy for Apple. If you take a look at Apple vs Android usage in Los Angeles for example it breaks down perfectly based on the wealth of the neighborhoods.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 02:24:54 am
content: Quote from: ruairi on October 31, 2017, 01:27:16 amApple a commercial entity and one that has shown to be a smart marketeer. They've created lines on launch day in the past by reducing available stock, because it looks good to have people lining up for your product. You're telling us that generating attention with the "reveal" of some otherwise insignificant features right after the keynote and right before release is beyond them? Without saying that's what actually happened in this case, it's exactly the kind of thing I would expect a smart marketeer to do. People have grown weary of polished marketing, so astroturfing has become the new trend.I don't think people buy an $800 Galaxy S8 because they can't afford a $900 iPhone. Besides, it seems people with bad money management skills tend to be attracted to the more expensive phones, rather than budgetary sensible ones. Around here, iPhones are very popular with people who could spend their money much more wisely.

author: aandrew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 02:51:25 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 30, 2017, 01:24:56 amIve deserves it for the absolute *shit* he's been behind. Jobs did a good job of reining him in. Now it's all about form over function, which is why I seriously doubt my next phone will be Apple, just as my next laptop won't be Apple.Shame too, I believe they had superior hardware and software for quite some time.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 03:07:11 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 31, 2017, 02:24:54 amExactly! Have you seen mention anywhere on the countless threads/Youtube comments section/Twitter etc of how awesome the iPhone X is, the unique features, desire/intention to buy etc? Absolutely not. Everyone is talking about and judging the father and daughter, and in some cases (evil) Apple itself.This is not how you market a multi-billion dollar product.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 03:25:26 am
content: Quote from: ruairi on October 31, 2017, 03:07:11 amYes, because creating a buzz, sometimes with the help of astroturfing isn't exactly what was mentioned before, and far beyond anything one of the more capable marketers would ever consider doing. If you're the wealthiest company in the world with everything to lose, you'd better play it safe by marketing your product the exact same way people have seen the past decades again and again. That's bound to be a big hit.It sounds mostly like it's not how you would market a multi-billion product.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 04:54:22 am
content: Quote from: aandrew on October 31, 2017, 02:51:25 amGotta agree with this, Jobs was a good "yes it's pretty but it needs to work right" counterbalance to Ive.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 05:41:59 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on October 30, 2017, 07:14:21 pmAm I reading the same thread?I haven't noticed any real criticism about the firing of this guy. There's plenty about Apple - but then Apple pretty much has its own franchise in that regard.The guy was careless (on several fronts), got caught and was fired - and, from what I've read, that seems universally accepted.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 02:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on October 31, 2017, 05:41:59 amI was referring to the negative comments towards Apples in general. While the negativity were not explicitly directed towards the firing, but this thread is about the firing so I infer that as negativity towards the firing.