I'm a beginner PIC programmer. What's the best programmer/debugger to use? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: flyman1999
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 15, 2018, 11:32:39 pm
content: Hello All,I'm new to PIC Programming and I'm looking for advice on getting the best programmer/debugger for a beginner that is easy to use.I'm interested in a programmer/debugger that can do in circuit debugging.I was going to get the PicKit3 but I've read and seen many horror stories on You Tube.I have seen some ICD4 vs ICD3 You Tube videos and heard similar issues.It sounds like Microchip programmers have a lot of bugs that drive users crazy.I'm not looking to spend a hundreds of dollars. A cheap beginner kit would be good for me to get started.What would experienced PIC Programmers recommend to a Beginner? What else would I need to go along with a programmer/debugger? Would I need some type of Development Board that will work with the programmer/developer?I'm an electronics technician that designs my own electronics gadgets. I want design gadgets that can be controlled by a PIC.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2018, 11:44:01 pm
content: If you don't need to program older PICs, then get a Snap. It can also do some AVR.https://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/ProductDetails/PartNO/PG164100https://www.microchipdirect.com/product/search/all/PG164100You can use a solderless breadboard for the DIP package parts. No need for a specialized dev board.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 12:16:48 am
content: What kinds of PICs? "New" programmers like the SNAP don't seem to support the "legacy" 8bit PICs that have appeared in numerous hobbyist projects, like the PIC16F84. (I don't think they produce the 12V needed for any of the chips that don't default to Low-Voltage Programming.)Realistically, you shouldn't be using those old chips anyway.There's an extensive "which tools support which chips" matrix in the MPIDE release notes:http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Device_Support.pdf

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 01:50:54 am
content: I use MPLAB X with both a PICkit 2 and PICkit3.I see you can get both on eBay for $12 -https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOT-PICkit3-PIC-KIT3-PICkit2-KIT2-Debugger-Programmer-Emulator-PIC-Controller-J/264027548359?hash=item3d7944aac7:m:mcMtkJs2yJZ0jJnPWLV-zvg:rk:55:pf:0

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 02:08:06 am
content: PICkit 2 and PICkit 3 were relatively simple devices with published schematics and firmware (actually, I think the IDE downloads new firmware for each device or device family, so all the "product" needs is a compatible bootloader.)So there are a lot of "clones" being sold, with the usual clone issue of "unknown actual manufacturer or quality." If you have a 'trusted' electronics dealer, a clone is probably fine.I don't recall many complaints (on the PIC mailing list) about the "official" units direct from Microchip - less than the Atmel low-end programmers, for instance.

author: cv007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 03:47:43 am
content: QuoteI would not say 'lots of bugs'. I have a Pickit3 and occasionally will have to unplug/plug back in, but not very often. I also have a SNAP programmer which has never had any problems so far.This is what I would do- buy a curiosity board (~$20)-https://www.microchip.com/DevelopmentTools/ProductDetails/PartNO/DM164137it has a programmer/debugger built in (basically low-voltage program only pickit3), includes a chip, you can swap out the micro to any low-voltage programmable 8bit pic from 8pin to 20pin, has led's, a switch, a pot, and you can get familiar with it without anything else needed.The next step would be to buy a SNAP programmer (~$15), which is basically a faster version of the on board programmer/debugger- which you can connect to the curiosity board. Not necessary, but nice.There is no advantage in using the older 'high voltage programmable only' devices, and although the newer devices also allow high voltage programming, the only advantage is you then get to use the reset pin as an input pin- which can be nice with a low pin count device (with low-voltage programming, the reset pin is exclusively a reset pin), but usually the better solution is to simply move up to the next size pin count device in the same series (and there WILL be one).When searching for pic 8bit parts (parametric search on their web site), select the parts with 'PPS' and you will be looking at the newer parts- they are better, cheaper.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 06:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: flyman1999 on December 15, 2018, 11:32:39 pmmostly outdated BS.That said, ICD3 >> PICKIT3. if you have the budget it's probably the best pic programmer/debugger you can get today.IF the pickit4 supported the families i use the most i would get one, as it's at least as powerful as the ICD3 while costing the same as the pickit 3The snap? the fact that it doesn't power the target, not even the VBUS or 3V3 that you already have on board is annoying. but otherwise it's a steal15€it won't program pics that don't support LVP, but who cares, that's ancient stuff.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 06:32:42 pm
content: For the first couple of years after its release the PICkit 3 support in MPLAB and its downloadable firmware drivers for the different PIC families were as buggy as heck, but enough years have gone by for nearly all the bugs to have been found and fixed, so unless you get one that's a 'lemon' (and Microchip replaces defective genuine ones with minimal hassle), or do something really stupid to it with misapplied external target power, it will be pretty reliable.Pickit 4 is more or less where the PICkit 3 was when Dave did the famous video and Microchip did the response video. It really isn't ready for prime-time. Microchip will probably need another year to get it working as well as the PICkit 3 does.The various PKOB programmers integrated on demo boards have very limited device support compared to the PICkit 3, and often the only way to be certain is to attempt to select the demo board programmer after setting up a project for the device you want to use.

author: cv007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 07:13:11 pm
content: QuoteThat's an easy fix. I have been running an esp32, and a pic32mm curiosity board from it (with rgb led). I'm pushing the limits (on the 3v3 at least), as the esp32 does a brownout reset if I look at it wrong (although I can keep it going good for quite a while).I have a board designed (mostly done) that mates to the snap and fits perfectly in a nice off-the-shell cheap hammond case.The snap is nice/fast, but the on-board curiosity programmer/debugger works fine. Here is the curiosity board with a 16f15325-https://photos.app.goo.gl/tNUGGMwHkrsBMWuv9(the 14pin 16f15325 will be used in my 'sn@p-mate')QuoteDon't get hung up on finding the perfect solution. Maybe I'm different than others, but I approach things from the bottom up- if I need a hammer, I'll get the basic model first, then after its been used a while I can move up if required. And I will know the reason why. If I upgrade, I will have a backup/spare so the first hammer still remains useful. The curiosity board is a good first hammer.

author: injb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 12:05:36 pm
content: Quote from: flyman1999 on December 15, 2018, 11:32:39 pmI recently bought the Pickit 4. It was just under $50. Using a build of MPLabX that was a few weeks old, I had lots of weird problems. I could program devices, but I couldn't debug and the programmer would not come out of debug mode properly. I updated to the latest version of MPLab and the first time I ran the new version it appeared to do a firmware update on the programmer. After that everything worked fine.You don't need anything else except a cable. I'm using jumper wires that came with my breadboard.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 03:15:06 pm
content: I recently got a bare-bones Pickit3.Does anybody have any suggestions of interesting or educational web pages or software that might be fun to try out?are there just a few different devices which can run a good cross section of PIC code?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 10:48:39 pm
content: Just look up the list of supported devices in the manual or on the microchip website.

author: conducteur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 09:52:28 pm
content: I switched to newer PIC's with more peripherals that can be very useful. My older pickit 2 doesn't support them, so switched to the pickit4. Verry happy with it!