CNC newbie seeking advice for 8060 China VS LEAD CNC - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 02:27:36 am
content: I'm new to this world but experient with 3D Printers. I seek advice for a good and robust machine that able to carve aluminium, big step not required, it can go slow and small depth step.At first i was looking at the new LEAD CNC from openbuilds, but it have many drawbacks at my eyes:It use 8mm leadscrew for 1000x1000mm which is a weak pointDon't like vwheels, i even convert my 3d printer to linear rails, not to mention that heavy spindles on Z will not hold very wellFrame not very rigid, have some deflection working over big areasReinforce LEAD would cost it price again so, with that in mind i start to find other alternatives on near price point, that i came with 8060 chinese CNC's (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4Axis-2200W-8060Z-USB-Mach3-2-2kw-CNC-Router-Engraver-engraving-Drilling-and-milling-Mahcine-110/512815_32817911749.html). They look better to me in terms of rigidity and choise of hardware:Proper leadscrew diameterSmooth rods instead of wheels with good diameterBetter ZStronger frameElectronics seens well choosen, they even use high power drivers for each motor, instead of LEAD that sell underpowered controler board with only 1.7A drivers with 2.7A motors... (Blackbox fix that with 4A max.)Now i want a good spindle and i come with this one:https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/EU-ship-Quality-2-2KW-Waterproof-Water-Cooled-Spindle-Motor-ER20-220V-4-bearings-Carved-Metal/512815_32881434813.html2.2KW and ER20 the only drawback is the weight, assuming that seller put the correct value info: Net Weight: 6.1kg.But i'm not sure that i really need a 2.2KW spindle... Maybe 1.5kw will carve aluminium?My ideia so far is:Get 8060 machineDiscard controller box and spindle, i already contact seller and that's about 500€ deduction in price.Buy the spindle i link before with VDF and water stuff.Buy the new Blackbox from openbuilds to use with grbl and their software.Buy a power supplyAnd now my question are:(Renember i don't know about CNC world, yet i hope)Is that a good setup to go?Will 8060 frame survive that spindle?What about the deflection on axis?Can i get a better config?What are the recommendations?Have other better machine advices under +/-2500€ price range, 3000€ max?Also i like to know if i get any advantage going with this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Jade-Machine-CNC-6090-2-2KW-4Axis-Router-Mach3-USB-CNC-6090-Steel-Frame-Engraving-Machine/32950734919.htmlRight now i'm contacting seller asking for more information, and i'm inclined for it...The good thing about that machines is they ofer door delivery with no tax, EU send.Regards

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 02:31:45 am
content: There's also this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Precision-Cnc-9012-Jade-Stone-Cutting-Machine/32954423732.htmlBut seens very good to be true... New seller, no feedback. Still they anwser accurate and with correct information but we never know!

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 02:55:53 am
content: If you want to 'carve' (I am assuming you mean mill) metal buy a mill. If you only occasionally want to cut out metal sheets or engrave metal panels then a router is fine.That is not to say your can't mill aluminium on a router but it is not what they are really designed or best at. There best use is timber, plastics and modelling boards. By their nature the heads deflect to much to maintain close tolerances such as you can obtain with a purpose built mill.3D printer loads are nothing like what you can expect with CNC subtractive machining no matter how slow you go. 8mm lead screws is never going to go near the job at any bed size for metal. The screws on my 1000x600 are 20mm.I would suggest you take a look at Parts 1,2 & 3 of This Old Tony's videos to get an idea of what is needed to get a good result with metal.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 03:11:35 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 02:55:53 amYes i mean mill.The main purpose will be wood, and ocasional some aluminium, like plates, nothing serious.Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 02:55:53 amI know 3D printer are a diferent world.I also agree that 8mm makes no sense with CNC no matter if router or not.Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 02:55:53 amThank you, will do, i have all night so i will see the parts you recommended.In meanwhile what you think about that Steel CNC deal? They also can upgrade with linear rails, but that add 350$ to the cost. Does it worth?Does it only add more accuracy or also ridigty to the machine as whole?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 03:43:06 am
content: There is a lot more to it than Linear over Round rails. Not all Linear bearings are created equal for a start and if they are not setup correctly will easily be worse than other options. You need to start square, strong and flat and then shim, adjust and tweak to keep it that way to maintain accuracy. Currently mine is getting rewired due to some average work by it's former owner. Then it will be out with dial indicators, engineers squares and start from the table and work up mechanically.The happy snap of the gantry on mine below gives you an idea of scale (2.2kW water cooled spindle). Under the bed the gantry is driven by another pair of Nema 24's into 20mm screws supported on 20mm Rails. One of the advantages of Linear bearings is they are generally lower profile compared to Round which helps cut down on leverage away from the actual axis the parts travel on. It is something I might consider on my Gantry down the track but for my intended purposes not a huge issue.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 04:20:59 am
content: I'm almost done with videos, the result is impressive, such perfection! And what i see the most dificult part is get everything trammed.Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 03:43:06 amSo if i understand correctly, the 350$ upgrade can turn in a nightmare other than a benefit if set incorrectly? And i bet they are not meticulous as the Old Tony...So far i got this information about the machine, comunicating with seller:QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteController box:Spindle (GDZ-20-2.2B):Motors:Specs

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 04:56:26 am
content: Lots to be learned from watching plenty of Tony's other videos even if you are not that mechanically minded, the methodical approach to a problem to then create a solution with a good dose of humour makes good viewing.The $350 is something for your budget but if I was buying or building new I would be going most likely go non Chinese origin Linear at this time, give it another few years to sort out quality and Chinese would also be fine. In my case I brought secondhand with $4-500 worth of tools and collets for about $1200 USD all up locally so I considered myself to have plenty leftover for upgrades if needed later.Couple of things you should check.The photo above of the Z axis stepper appears to be smaller than the one shown on an earlier link? Perhaps ask them to clarify what steppers they are offering. I think your photo is of their smaller format one?https://www.chinacnczone.com/en/chinacnczone-cnc-3040-mini-cnc-jewelry-engraving-machine-with-2200w-water-cool-spindle-for-sale_l302_p210.htmlIt looks a little small for a 2.2kW spindle?Major thing to check they seem to be claiming Mach 3 compatibility with their controller card. Double check with them or it can add a chunk more to what you may need to spend to get good functionality later. I am not sure of how Mach3 and other Cards work regards to costs as mine doesn't run Mach3. If you can avoid needing to buy a new card at least initially and it works with Mach 3 then great. Mach 4 seems to be out too.If you are buying a spindle from them with a chuck then get a range of collets while you are going as they will generally be cheaper than buying locally for you. For Tooling you will get what you pay for at this time and maybe go local and branded for that.Another few Videos that are worthwhile is this one and some more recent ones on his channel. Far more rustic than Tony's but down to earth and it works.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 05:31:00 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 04:56:26 amThats true, his videos are easy to see, no headaches for long videos or a storm of information. Lots of fun there!Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 04:56:26 amGot it, i will skip this as i can upgrade latter too, not a question of money, but more trouble free.I brought linear rails from china for my 3d printer, and i notice them bad quality in terms of accuracy and smooth (3 different sellers, both bad). Easy to lose balls, so i buy ceramic balls to reball when need too.Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 04:56:26 amYes, the first photo was to show spindle only, he maybe took from the first machine he near by.The motor close up was also requested by me, i ask for the motor used on the machine (6090)Anyway if motors not suitable i will sell them and but proper ones, the LDO-57STH86 was on my list.I will be happier if structure and build is exceeding than get a wrong or bad stepper (things i can upgrade easy and cheap)Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 04:56:26 amIt's really Mach3 but cracked, all this machines work same way, but i asked anyway:QuoteI also use that to ask you, i never used Mach3 it seens old but capable. If i discard control box from seller and use Blackbox from openbuilds and GRBL is a good choise? I see their software is good and modern, and blackbox seens well built and lot of options, capable of drive every component from that CNC, inc. software spindle speed, and WC. Instead their controller, WC and tool fluid is AC connected, no monitoring or software controled.https://openbuildspartstore.com/blackbox-motion-control-system/https://docs.openbuilds.com/blackbox/#0welcome.htmlOne good thing for sure is know what i'm using and buy a good power supply too... But 24V limited!Or maybe i can upgrade it latter too if i don't like it, and sell parts at ebay...Quote from: beanflying on March 29, 2019, 04:56:26 amI will not, will buy a better one for work metal a little better, the RTM-80-2.2:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/RU-ship-Quality-Waterproof-2-2KW-Water-Cooled-CNC-Spindle-Motor-Carved-Metal-4-BEARINGS-ER20/32902402580.htmlA bit longer, but the head have full cover and less play.The discount from removing spindle is 90USD, which is low compared to his acquisition cost.5.30am here, tomorrow i will continue with videos, i'm learning good stuff here.Belive or not i have ask same question on a CNC dedicated forum, 0 replies, topic is 1 day age.And in this good forum more eletronic based i got a instant worth replyThank you