Home Lab and Child Safety - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 07:35:20 pm
content: Hi, I have a home lab setup where I do projects and freelance work. I also have a 2 year old. I am super paranoid about lead and as a result only use lead free in the house. I am aware that the fumes from lead free are worse than lead (which my wife isn't too thrilled about either). I have a small table top carbon filter fume extractor and keep the windows open when I solder. I let my kid in the room from time to time but keep her away from the bench. I see in Dave's videos that he lets his kid on the bench and play with tools and multimeters. While this is adorable I'm always wondering if I shouldn't be so paranoid. Am I too strict? Dave if your reading this what's your take? I definitely want my little girl to learn about this stuff so the more I can let her play with the better.P.S. My kid was born around the same time Sagan was so it's been fun seeing little Sagan grow at the same rate as mine.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:03:11 pm
content: I'd say you were being too careful, except you can't really be too careful when it comes to your children.I always heard it's the FLUX fumes that are much worse with lead-free solder. Also, there isn't really any lead vaporized during soldering - it's not hot enough. Yes, you should wash your hands after soldering, and before you eat, because it's the physical ingestion that's a problem.I doubt Sagan would get any measurable amount of lead from being in Dave's lab, or even standing on the bench.

author: babysitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:09:24 pm
content: Having a 9 month old, stopped soldering @ home during my wifes pregnancy, did it at lunch break at work.Got a 10 square meter basement last week as a storage (not only electronics but camping and other stuff) and solder shop. Already has a wooden plate on feet as a desk, 2 chairs, light, oscope. Will get shelves soon, and a fume extraction out the window.Still have to wash my hands when returning home.Edit: Besides soldering, I do everything else at home too - Tools, Voltage, dont matter

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:12:42 pm
content: I don't have kids, not yet anyways... But i would say its really up to you what rules you want to follow when it comes to kids and lab with potentially dangerous stuff in it. Small kids really don't know damn things about dangers until they do something that's teaches them the hard way...Or at least that's how i learned thing or two as kid... Only had working mom, no dad, so had plenty of time to do stupid things until i was smart enough to think before doing something...About Dave, i'm sure he makes sure welding iron is cold, etc.. before letting hes kid clime up to bench..

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:18:19 pm
content: In a electronic lab there are a lot of danger, like open instrument with high tension or tools.But the fumes of the solder don't contain lead. The fumes are only flux. The flux is a bit irritating, but not dangerous.

author: icon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:32:12 pm
content: Lead boils at 1750oC. Suggest turning down soldering iron if getting lead fumes...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:34:59 pm
content: Quote from: yanir on April 24, 2013, 07:35:20 pmIf you have to ask, the answer is usually "yes". Humans are quite robust.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 08:59:47 pm
content: Really, the lab equipment in Dave's lab is in much more danger from Sagan than the other way around. C'mon people, stop being paranoid! I think everyone owes Dave the credit to know what is safe or not in his own domain. Let it go.It is funny how paranoid people are with some things and then go to McDonald's and gulp down all the re-re-re-processed crap that they try to pass off as food, as an example.I would hazard to guess that a child in Dave's lab is 10000000X safer than living with the environment in 99% of the "safe" homes in the US.If anyone gave thumbs down for that video because of "the dangers to Sagan" you are all panickoids and sheeple.

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:03:59 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on April 24, 2013, 08:59:47 pmI am not judging Dave whatsoever, I am being critical of my own concerns. I don't what this thread to become a flame war. I just want to know how other people with home labs and children handle this.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:07:11 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on April 24, 2013, 08:59:47 pmSagan looks quite dangerous with that screwdriver!I'm usually really patient with kids, but I don't think I'd be able to conjure up anywhere near Dave's level of patience with Sagan mucking about with that screwdriver and fragile electronics...QuoteIf people gave that video a thumbs-down because of danger to Sagan they are irresponsible assholes. If you honestly think someone is in danger, do something about it, don't just be a click-activist. "Well, I clicked thumbs-down, that's my good deed for the day!"Quote from: yanir on April 24, 2013, 09:03:59 pmI don't see the beginnings of a flame war here, we're just giving our opinions!

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:10:07 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on April 24, 2013, 09:07:11 pmmaybe I overreacted. I didn't realize that some people posted negative comments on youtube, I usually watch direct on the eevblog site.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:15:32 pm
content: People whined about everything they could think of on the YouTube video. What's that Dave said in his speech? IIRC, "there is no more wretched hive of scum and villainy" than the YT comments!YouTube commentersalwayslatch onto a bunch of tiny things that piss them off and use a stream of whiny comments to clean the sand out of their asses.We are relatively quite nice here on the forum.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:45:11 pm
content: It's a really big screwdriver... Pretty safe...

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 12:13:44 am
content: Dave is building a strong relationship with his son. Little boys want to be just like daddy you know. I like the vid where Sagan is on the equipment bench with side cutters and there are all those cables. I used to let my daughter "help" with my projects. Thought she might become an electrician or maybe even an engineer but she has taken after her mother...although she does like to take things apart now and then. Hmmm.

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 01:09:50 am
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on April 25, 2013, 12:13:44 amShe might have thenack.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 02:46:00 am
content: Make a proper fume extractor. All you need to do is make a cardboard box with a duct fan leading out of it and have negative pressure inside the box. There are simple face velocity calculations which you can do to to ensure that contaminates do not get out. A 90$ ebay squirrel cage fan is probably more then enough as you do not need a huge opening size to solder. You just need to make sure the fan is at the last point of your system to ensure that any leaks are held under negative pressure.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 03:59:14 am
content: Quote from: yanir on April 25, 2013, 01:09:50 amYES!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 06:13:09 am
content: Quote from: yanir on April 24, 2013, 07:35:20 pmYes, you are being too paranoid.I bet I could find a dozen things in your house your child could potentially harm themselves with. The lab is no different.Do your job as a parent by teaching them and supervising them, and tell anyone who tells you you are doing it wrong to bugger offQuoteSo let her play with it!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 06:18:38 am
content: I gotta say, I watched Dave's most recent video with Sagan and I was on the edge of my seat with all that fragile and expensive equipment in reach of small child with curious fingersI really don't think I would be able to do that in anything like the same relaxed way that Dave does...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 06:24:38 am
content: The problem with societies attitude to children is that they are born scientists, born with inquisitiveness to learn, experiment and investigate.Yet the majority of parent seems to scold their child every time they explore something and look like they might touch it, break it, climb it, or whatever.Neil Tyson as usual has it covered:

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 06:24:48 am
content: I was using a tool when my three year old wanted to see and put his hand on my elbow. I embedded the tool in my thumb and almost lost the ability to use it. (It's not good when you can see nerves and tendons!) He also tried scissors on a plugged in mains cord once.Lesson 1: It is way too easy to get absorbed in to what I'm doing and fail to have an eye on kids.Lesson 2: The dangers might be worth it. He and I survived without permanent injuries and he is now great help in projects and much better in metalworking than I am.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 06:32:20 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 25, 2013, 06:24:38 amOh, I agree, in principle. And yet..."Hey, whatcha got there Sagan? Yeah, it's my $10,000 oscilloscope. It's got lots of interesting knobs and buttons hasn't it? ...SMASH... Oh, you dropped it! Never mind, we'll soon put it back together again"

author: peterthenovice
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 12:03:04 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on April 25, 2013, 06:32:20 amoh look Sagan you've made your first asic. brings tears to the eye.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 03:57:49 pm
content: My 3 kids grew up in the electronic shop. My oldest spent the most time in there. She is 30 now. When she turned 9 she could replace components on a circuit board as good as anyone could. She had a lot of practice taking apart old TV's and removing all the components off the boards. Now they are all grown up and I am left in the shop alone........

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:21:59 pm
content: Quote from: Radio Tech on April 25, 2013, 03:57:49 pmDon't worry the grandkids will keep you company soon

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 12:26:56 am
content: Quote from: yanir on April 25, 2013, 01:09:50 amHer nack is an ability to lead, plan well and teach.

author: Strada916
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 11:38:05 am
content: My only concern was Sagan falling off the bench.But Dave being the super Dad that he is, would not let that happen.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 12:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: Strada916 on April 26, 2013, 11:38:05 amI remembered when I was a kid, my parents always shouted at me not to run while holding sharp pointy stuffs, like pencil, scissors, knife etc.Imo, parent should not be distracted at all like adjusting camera, refocus and etc even for just few seconds, cause it needs less than 1 second for kid at that age to fall down from narrow bench that filled with lots of stuffs like tangling cables, sharp objects or slippery plastics and etc. Particularly at this age, their body balancing act is still not good enough, and also with slow instintive response like to grab or hold something when falling.At that height, no big deal, I believe it will not serious harm cause I've experienced that when I was a kid, its just imagine the kid's hand was holding a screwdriver pointing at their body while falling.Maybe I am those paranoid type of parent.Btw, regrets always come late.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 12:56:13 pm
content: Quote from: BravoVAhhh yes .... I remember a similar experience with my father ... A black+white TV, no back cover - due to overheating, constantly playing up ...JIMMY !! Ua a smarta boy, go fixa the TeeVee(Jimmy ventures behind the TV set and touches a nice purty RED wire. Suddenly he is booted against the wall ...)Hey JIMMY yoa fixing it .. do it again, pictcha is getting better ... you ARE a smarta boyThen Jimmy would venture outside and make up land mines, from stripped down dynamite sticks his dad kept in the chicken coop, andblow up the occasional chicken.Ah yes, lotsa child safety in my time too :-)

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 02:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: yanir on April 24, 2013, 07:35:20 pmGo back to lead solder, don't let kid eat it. Problem solved.Seriously, there are a hundred different and interesting ways your kid could cause irreversible damage to themselves in and about your house. Sniffing flux fumes is not high on the list.

author: Alana
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 06:12:31 pm
content: Well - if i were you i would tell my partner to stop relaying on rumors if it comes to safe and unsafe stuff in electronics lab. From my personal experience from back when i was a child worst things that can happen is getting burned - either by touching live power or hot soldering iron. I got both and this gave me a lesson to be careful with stuff.And rest of possible dangers... come on! Everyone has sharp knives, benches child can fell off, bottle of bleach, paint thinner or rust remover in a cupboard under kitchen sink, we do clean up toilets with stuff that gives out harmful ammonia fumes. You survived, i survived, millions of kids survived those household dangers and will survive in the future.And if you try to be too careful remember that child kept out of any danger will have no means of self-protection if real danger occurs. This is true for both mind [learning how to handle knife properly] and body [it was proven that dirty child is healthier child because child's immune system have had chance to learn to deal with stuff].

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 06:38:27 pm
content: Somebody please think of the children!

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2013, 10:28:20 am
content: Jesh, thats like how i was as child. Took apart tons of things to figure out how they worked.. Damn im Knacked..Quote from: Smokey on April 25, 2013, 03:59:14 am

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2013, 02:02:22 pm
content: Quite a few adults hurt themselves with tools, maybe if they had better experience with tools as a kid they would know better.Do the benefits outweigh the risk? you tell me....here's some things my Dad taught me:When I was about 6 I can remember going to his work and taking apart analog meters to get the magnets out of them, yep they had sharp small parts and I had to use a screwdriver among other things.the result:A career that has paid me over 60 grand a year for the last 20 years, sometimes over 100 grand in a good year.He used to be an airplane mechanic in the army and liked to race stock cars, I would go out to the shop and help him re-build engines, extremely dangerous if you aren't careful and lots of ways to smash your fingers.the result: I can fix pretty much any mechanical problem with my car that comes upWe used to go hunting and he showed me how to properly use guns, clean them, and even how to re-load my own shells, pretty dangerous stuff if you're not careful.The result: I can feed myself if the need ever arises.All those dangerous things and I still have all my fingers and toes, and a whole bunch of life skills that are kind of useful.So I would say in the long term the benefits far outweigh the risks, and introducing kids to them properly at an early age guarantees they will be more competent as adults.