Rubber ESD mat question (thermal tolerance) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 04:27:41 pm
content: All,I recently dropped the needed money on a "good" rubber ESD mat off ebay (the seller that many eevblog members seem to use and like). The mat seems great, albeit needs a cleaning already since it seemed to have shown up with a weird film/powder/grime on it (I have cleaner on order).Anyway, while working on a small soldering job, my 700F tip briefly hit the mat, and that spot promptly melted slightly. Not believing it, I briefly touched the tip to a hidden corner and it too promptly melted. Am I crazy that this shouldn't happen? Am I soldering too hot for leaded solder? Please advise! I know vinyl mats melt like this, but I expected a bit more from a rubber mat.Thanks!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 12:32:43 am
content: 700F is fine, but could experiment with a bit lower if its causing any problems (lifted trace or too much smoke).Can you link to the description of exactly what you bought?I tested a vinyl mat here at 700F and it melts instantly, a 3M mat (unknown material) burns to a yellow color but does not melt.The rubber mat I see advertised here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2LAYER-RUBBER-ESD-ANTI-STATIC-HI-TEMP-GROUNDING-MATKIT-24X36-W-DUAL-BENCH-GRAY/271293152121states 600F for 10s with no smell or melt, which seems better than both of the mats I tried.Maybe they sent you the wrong thing?

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 12:51:34 am
content: Quote from: staze on March 14, 2016, 04:27:41 pmHiA "normal" mat is probably good to 100C as a working temp. That might get you to 150C without major damage. To get up to soldering temperature you need fairly fancy plastics. Silicone based stuff will get you into the 300C range. That puts you into a whole different price class of mat.Bob

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 01:30:22 pm
content: 700F is fine. A rubber ESD mat shouldn't do that at that temp. Discolor, sure (yellow), and scorch if heat is continued.FWIW, I have matting from the eBay seller linked above, as well as a Sierra brand from All-Spec.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 02:50:12 pm
content: Even direct tip contact as opposed to just molten solder splashing? See images.Seller's response, so far, has been "The specs are 600 degree and up to 10 sec. The specs never changed. Please note that your iron was at much higher temp."

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 04:32:59 pm
content: Yes, a proper rubber esd mat doesn't melt.Mine discolours very quickly (<0.5sec) and scorches after about 2sec at 375°C (~700°F) on direct tip contact.But it never leaves a dent like in your pictures.Do you have a link of your mat?

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 04:42:59 pm
content: Yup, this one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-LAYER-RUBBER-ESD-ANTI-STATIC-MAT-36-X-72-W-GROUND-CABLE-BLUE-/281674733997I wouldn't think a 100F increase would negate the "no melt". I'm tempted to test with 600F...

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 05:03:53 pm
content: How long did you touch the mat in the top picture?This is how mine looks after 10 sec at 375C :Just scorched, but the iron has not melted into the mat like on yours.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 05:06:19 pm
content: Touched < 0.5sec.

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 05:11:30 pm
content: Then I think the seller has sent you the wrong mat or he has declared it wrong.Or maybe his vendor has sent him the wrong stuff.You have definitely not received a high temperature rubber mat as described in the ebay link.Ask for a refund!

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 05:55:51 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 15, 2016, 01:30:22 pmHi nanofrog,So, do both mats seem similar? Do you have the grey, blue, or green from the ebay seller?

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 07:12:45 pm
content: I got this mat from elemen14:http://www.newark.com/multicomp/082-0034f3/esd-bench-mat-600mmx900mm-grey/dp/87P0241Even cheaper than the ebay ones. And you will get the right one!

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 07:38:24 pm
content: Quote from: hayatepilot on March 15, 2016, 07:12:45 pmNot nearly the right size. I needed 3' x 6', so about 900mm to 1800mm.

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 08:10:28 pm
content: Totally missed the sizeThe mat you got is probably made of vinyl since it melts almost instantly.60$ for a rubber esd mat that size seems a little too good to be true...

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 08:12:34 pm
content: Quote from: hayatepilot on March 15, 2016, 08:10:28 pmSeller thinks there's a chance wrong thing got sent. So we shall see. Will post back when I know more...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 08:58:33 pm
content: Quote from: staze on March 15, 2016, 02:50:12 pmThat's definitely something other than 2 layer rubber ESD. Rubber does not melt; it takes the heat until it fails (scorches/burns = a chemical reaction <decomposition>).Don't waste any time, and send it back for a refund (or correct product if you trust the seller to have it).Quote from: staze on March 15, 2016, 05:55:51 pmOther than color and thickness, Yes.FWIW, the eBay mat I purchased is a heavy duty version inblue(0.080" thick), with a smooth finish and made in Canada by Scientific Americas. This is on the primary bench, so it's the one I use for soldering. To put pricing into perspective, I paid ~$70 shipped, and it's only 30"x60" (it was a good price).The Sierra is a medium duty mat ingreen(0.060" thick) with a smooth finish, and made in China (All-Spec lists the COO of the products they carry). This one is located on the computer station, which doubles as a disassembly table rather than soldering on it. Though it's suitable for soldering should the need arise. Regarding price, this one was on clearance from All-Spec, so it was much less expensive (~$32 shipped IIRC; also 30"x60"). Pure dumb luck the timing worked out (right place, right time, and sufficient funds available).BTW, 2 layer rubber ESD material is rather heavy, while vinyl is not for a given size. Can be a quick clue as to whether or not what you have is the real thing or not (3 layer mat = 2 layer with a vinyl layer on the bottom for additional cushioning, so is even heavier). They also tend to have a somewhat pungent odor when first unfurled. Stink dissipates in a week or two IME, and cleaning with alcohol helps reduce the initial odor level quicker. The ability to open a window helps as well.Some have resorted to setting theirs out doors at first to ventilate it IIRC.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 09:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 15, 2016, 08:58:33 pmThis one was 10lbs for the 36x72" roll. Which SEEMS heavy vs my older single layer vinyl one, but I have no idea if that's actually what one should weigh. It didn't smell though (though it was out in the garage). Anyway, seller is curious if the wrong thing got sent (wants me to take a detailed picture of the backing). It doesn't FEEL like vinyl necessarily, but it also doesn't feel overly like rubber. I know they're generally nitrile type rubber, but unsure.I have ZERO idea who made the one I have, but given searching for "Scientific Americas" and ESD turned up the EXACT content of the eBay listing, you're probably right. Could even be that Scientific Americas is the eBay seller as well. The address looks similar (both in Thornhill, ON, Canada). Though my mat was shipped from Buffalo, NY. So maybe their US distributor screwed up.Total cost for it was $96 with shipping ($27 shipping). Anyway, Will post back. Thanks!

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 12:27:58 am
content: Okay, seller responded, and really came through. After providing a picture of the backing, they informed me the wrong thing was sent. They're shipping a replacement when it's available. Yay!Will endeavor to post back when I have the replacement... Thanks for the help everyone!

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2016, 06:25:35 am
content: Okay, just following up.Got my replacement mat today. This one is definitely rubber. Held a 700F iron to it for 5-10 seconds, and there's only minor discoloration. Definitely the real deal now. Quite happy. Now I just need to make room for the "old" mat on side bench...Thanks for all the feedback everyone. =)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2016, 08:27:00 am
content: That certainly was a vinyl mat, rubber don't melt. If it is overheated, it changes color, decompose/burn with smoke but won't melt.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2016, 05:04:30 pm
content: Glad they finally sorted it for you.BTW, if you can't make room for the old mat, you could try it underneath the new one for additional cushioning (or if you just want to try it). Vinyl is also easily cut, so a couple/few smaller mats may be of some use as well (lots of options).

author: SAM Badie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 02:07:33 am
content: I recently purchased a new ESD Rubber Mat, i was very careful to get the high temperature 2 layer mat as i do a lot of soldering.I was quite happy to pay $78.51 and 4.49 shipping on Amazon.com for a 30 x 72 Two Layer Hi-Temp mat kit that came with a wrist strap and dual bench grounding. Great product. Recommend this to everyone on this post.http://www.amazon.com/Layer-Rubber-Anti-Static-Hi-Temp-Grounding/dp/B01FFJYDD0/ref=sr_1_63?ie=UTF8&qid=1463364474&sr=8-63&keywords=2+layer+rubber+esd+mat

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 02:20:26 am
content: Quote from: SAM Badie on May 16, 2016, 02:07:33 amSame seller as the eBay one that I originally started with. =)

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 02:21:32 am
content: Followup question for people. The new rubber mat seems to be more "wavy" (doesn't lay as flat) as the previous vinyl mat. Any thoughts for getting it to flatted out, or just time?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 02:56:31 pm
content: Quote from: staze on May 16, 2016, 02:21:32 amMight try leaving it out in the sun and see if that helps matters a bit (helps with the odor too). Otherwise, give it time. If all fails, you could use double sided tape.There's even a thread on this somewhere...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 09:04:14 am
content: Quote from: staze on May 16, 2016, 02:21:32 amAttach it with agoodadhesive double sided tape. At least on the edges. It will increase the lifetime of the mat multiple times. Rubber mats tend to expand and form wave on the parts where you work the most if left unattached to the desk.