Are there any low flammability materials with properties like wood?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: e100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 07:13:02 am
content: Wood has a density of about 0.4 which is way less than something like FR4/G10 fiberglass at 1.8 which makes it great for building stuff, except for the flammability.Is there something like an aerated version of FR4/G10 that can be treated like wood from a manufacturing point of view?I'm aware of the various layered honeycomb composites but the cell size is usually way too big to properly handle wood screws which are expecting sub millimeter scale voids that can be crushed to make space for the fastener thread as it pushes through.Has anyone tried making their own synthetic wood like material using hollow spheres like Q-Cel with polyester/epoxy resin or something else? My limited attempts in the past resulted in what I would describe as a lightweight rock that floats on water. I've never managed to make something with the same toughness and flex as wood.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 09:37:32 am
content: https://www.clp-inc.com/complete-guide-fire-retardant-wood/

author: e100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:19:19 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on February 03, 2023, 09:37:32 amAs far as I can tell, fire retardant wood is simply normal wood that has been vacuum infused with borax, a common ingredient of washing powder and various household cleaning products.I have no idea if having borax close to a PCB or wiring is going to cause corrosion problems.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:48:58 am
content: ... which is why you seal the wood with a fire retardant paint or varnish.However Borax is actually a corrosion inhibitor for many metals.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 02:01:08 pm
content: Quote from: e100 on February 03, 2023, 11:19:19 amMost sorts of wood have a lot of the wood-like properties.So what's the problem?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 03:01:47 pm
content: Boron compounds are used in many fire retardants and are very effective but IIRC Boron is very toxic to the liver in all animals. Boric acid mixes are commonly used in ant poison and toxic to many animals so I would be cautious about using them. Unless I could find that they safe over the long term, I would only use it in inside of sealed area, i.e. in side of a wall, inside of an (unused) attic, etc.IIRC Sodium Silicate solution, aka Water Glass, is also a fire retardant and may not be harmful to wires and might be better choice to use inside of a home.What about using something like a white wash made of ground up limestone? It wouldn't make the wood completely fire proof but should make it more fire resistant.I wouldn't use any sort of plastic or hydro-carbon based material as a replacement for wood! All plastics out-gas poisonous fumes when heated and IMO they're a much bigger hazard than wood itself. FWIW far more people that die in fires from smoke inhalation and toxic fumes than from the fire itself.The US Mil uses fire proof paint on a lot of their bigger munitions. That paint bubbles up when heated and that somewhat insulates the war heads and will keep the munitions from "cooking off" for over an hour even when exposed to flames. You might want to look into that and how it works and if something like that could be used in your home.Your best bet would probably be to make your home from stone, brick or concrete block. In Florida, termites and other insects are a real problem in wood framed houses so block or brick walls solves multiple problems.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 09:39:06 pm
content: It might help to state what you are actually trying to accomplish.

author: e100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 04:28:23 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 03, 2023, 09:39:06 pmAny time you need to position something in 3d space, for example a motor or display screen.At the prototype stage your only options are heavy/expensive FR4/G10, custom machined/pressed metal brackets or 3d printed polycarbonate etc..

author: Overspeed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 07:52:07 am
content: HelloI agree as without the purpose of the material that the mist , other parameters over flammability should be taken in consideration , tensile / yield / hardness / weldable / machinable ? ?? and the most first important : what is the temperature of use as flammability is destruction but before to reach ignitionRegardsOS

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 10:00:42 am
content: So like, construction materials? Will you need a lot of it? In production? One-offs?There's kind of a gap there, probably, yeah. A stiff/dense urethane foam seems like the most direct comparison probably? As far as still non-cellulosic materials (i.e. excluding wood-fiber composites) go. Otherwise, you're looking at rather soft things like polystyrene/polyisocyanurate foams, or rather hard things like fiberglass and other composites. Or combinations of the two.Which, fiberglass can be used a whole hell of a lot of ways; it's got good strength and stiffness, so can be made into thinner (webbed, flanged, truss, etc.) shapes better than a soft material can -- but at some effort, whether by machining down a block/sheet, or gluing pieces together (or "printing" over a form, as the CNC fiber methods, like carbon fiber fuselages). Or molded over a soft (foam) core, for excellent strength and stiffness and more resistance to buckling than the plain material. Or printing GF-reinforced resins, if that counts well enough.And there's chop fiber or fabric, with resin, in a mold, an excellent way to make high performance free-form parts, but you need molds to do it -- good for production, bad for one-offs.If you just want something you can (circular) saw apart and screw/nail together... yeah, I would suggest sticking with wood. Use wood-joinery methods with wood (imagine that). Deal with the, whatever, flammability or temperature range limitations, that's about it. If you need other properties, you'll need other materials, with other cutting and joining methods, that's simply how it goes.Tim

author: e100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 10:52:09 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on February 04, 2023, 10:00:42 amLike this?https://youtu.be/hImwdtxamgs?t=222

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 12:23:25 pm
content: Hah, there 'ya go. Yeah, exactly like that.Tim