[TIP] Best budget/cheap soldering stations and tools - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 02:49:52 am
content: (Open Article, i invite everyone to participate and enhancement this post, based on real feedback and daily use)(Disclamer: This article is not to discourage you from buying brand reputable tools or anything like that, this are alternatives for the price)Recently i have seen people asking for the same: cheap/budget tools, problem is people tend to buy the cheapest or anything in the middle, resulting in waste, difficulty and demotivation (Is this my fault? Most of the time no, check your tool)We all know good reputable tools are dam expensive and for some people are not easy to afford them, or even a purpose, ie hobby.The truth is quality and performance come with a price, but to be honest in this age (2017) that tools are a bit overpriced, we pay a lot just for a 400ºc soldering rock, yes because they only have that function, we can't EEVblog with it...Lets check a single solder station only (no handle or tips) for example (JBC, Weller, others):Price Range: 250€-400€What we get: Cheap ABS or other material enclosure, PSU, PCB and it componentsAll those things are dirty cheap for them and we pay for brand name, availability, multiple tools compatibility and others.They can perform very well but are just like Apple products, you pay for outdated hardware and old tech, the hardware is there only for heat up a resistor and control the heater plus other features like stand by, hibernation that cost 0 multiplied by one hundred euros (courtesy of the software, nothing a 'if' plus a 'timer' won't solve)JBC T210-A handle cost about 56€ and is the real thing, is what you should look, because this tool and the tip will do all the joints for you. So 56€ for a high-quality handle, that's cheap but it won't work alone. So you can do or buy a kind of station that can power the handle for half or less the price of the original. If it broke in a year or less you can buy another and still not touch near the price of the original station.With all that in mind this article is to advice people with the best cheap tools money can buy (Discarding all trash) including clones from reputable brands and easy to source.Also the listed tools can be used in a professional scenarioSolderingSoldering stations and ironsTS100Iron Price:30€ - 50€Tip's Price:7€ - 9€ [TS-xx], CheapTip's availability:Not many but the available ones are more than capable for multiple works, easy to source.Tip style:Similar to Hakko T12 tips but the length is smaller and more optimized, heater element builtin inside tipTip hot change:Yes, don't screw the tip if you want to change while hot, it will stay in place without move, tight connection.ESD-Safe:Yes*, require a PSU with earth connectionMax Power:24V / 65WFeatures:Portable, Can be battery powered, stand-by, hibernation, digital, configurable, firmware can be updated, open sourceGood for:Portability, hobby, battery operatedMy review:Very good tool for any job, it outperform the hakko clones, well calibrated, tips are long lasting and high performance, even smaller tips like TS-ILS and TS-I can melt solder at very bottom without wick solder up. I can say that iron can do better job than my ERSA i-con 2v with the i-tool using tips from 0.2mm to 0.5mm, all ERSA tips from that sizes will wick solder up and don't melt solder very well at tip. Only the new optimized 0.3mm ERSA tip is good, that said TS100 outperform a complete tool that cost me 680€ under that scenario. About the others perform just as well, heat up times are the same, maybe some milliseconds difference.Ergonomics are good to me (Medium hand), the shape is odd at first view, but it fell right in the hand, still it can vary from people to people.Be sure to use a good and capable power supply (12v to 24v) with earth connection, and if possible a soft and light DC cable to make tool light as possible.It can easy replace a good solder station.So, for about 50€ plus the power supply if you have to buy it, we got a full iron and a tip that (out)/perform just as better than tools that cost 250€-300€, that a joke...Hakko T12 CloneComes in DIY or complete set. There's also an portable version and an OLED version.Set Price:30€ - 50€Tip's Price:2€ - 5€ [T12-xx], CheapTip's availability:Very, easy to source.Tip style:Similar/same to Hakko T12 tips. Heater element builtin inside tipTip hot change:Yes.ESD-Safe:Yes/No depending on station you getMax Power:24V / 65WFeatures:Small and compact, Can be battery powered (DIY), stand-by, hibernation, digital.Good for:Hobby, fixed station, people who have lot of spare T12 tipsMy review:Handle feels cheap plastic, if you shake it you will hear plastic noise but is easy to operate. Station not always awake from a stand by mode, you need to perform a hard movement for it detect the motion and awake, can't change the sensivity for this sensor. Factory calibration is bad most of the times and display temperature is not the real, you need to calibrate it first with a proper thermometer. Beside all that and if proper calibrated station work very well and can perform the jobs very easy.Advice:Buy original handle and tips for a optimal experience. Clone tips may be not as good as originals. If use clones please heat up the tip gradually when you first use a new one or it will partial damage your tip.TS100 is better than this in every spec and is easy to turn in a fixed stationJND DI3000 - JBC C245 CloneLinkSet Price:160€ - 170€ + ShippingTip's Price:12€ - 100€ , ExpensiveTip's availability:Very, easy to source.Tip style:C245. Heater element + temperature sensor builtin inside tipTip hot change:Yes.ESD-Safe:YesMax Power:24V / 75WFeatures:stand-by, hibernation, digital.Good for:Fixed station, serious useAdvice:Buy original handle (Most optional) and tips for a optimal experience.Full JBC clone, what can i say?UniSolder 5.2 - Really universal soldering controllerLinkSet Price:DIY, +/- 150-250€ESD-Safe:DIYMax Power:9V-28V, AC or DCFeatures:stand-by, hibernation, digital.Good for:Fixed station, multiple tools, learn and make your soldering stationAdvice:Buy original handle and tips from your favorite brand (Compatible with the station)My Review:This station is very capable, but is hard to build yourself, the BOM is complicated and some components are hard to find even on aliexpress, you can order everything from mouser but will come at a higher cost. There are some empty pcb avaliable over eBay and maybe a full build station. With this you will never run out of possibilities but it require time to make it well, still on development and there are things that can be improved. I will say just for JBC pencil and Microtweezers this worth a lot to have. When you build your first you can replicate easy but i advice to use quality components or it can fail easy.Features:- power: 9-28V, AC or DC- 2 separate heater control channels- 2 independent sensor inputs- current source on any sensor input 3uA - 12mA, wuth 2 bands (x1, x16) and 256 steps per band- flexible differential amplifier input selection- amplifier gain from 0 to 750 in 256 steps- negative offset selection in 1024 steps- resistive instrument identification (upto 625 different instruments can be identified by 2 resistors on the connector)- polynomial floating point voltage/resistance to temperature calculation- wave shaping to filter out the inductive peaks from series sensor signal- PID control with power limit- isolated USB port for firmware updates and live data- 128x64 OLED display with rich user interface.Tested so far with:- HAKKO T12/T15 (series TC)- HAKKO FX8801 (PTC)- PACE TD100 (series TC)- JBC C245 (series or separate TC)- JBC C210 (series TC)- JBC Microtweezers (2 separate heaters, each with series TC)- WELLER WSP80 (PTC) (This iron was sent to me by a reader of the thread for a previous version of the controller. Thanks, Jaroslaw)- ERSA RT80 (series PTC/heater resistance)- various chinese cheap irons with separate TCPace ADS200Read:https://www.eevblog.com/2018/08/02/eevblog-1106-pace-ads200-soldering-station-review-jbc-killer/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/ERSA i-con nano (0IC1200A)This is one of the best branded stations you can get for the price from a well known and reputable brand: ERSAStation Price:160€ - 180€Tip's Price:6€ - 80€ [Serie 102], CheapTip's availability:Very, easy to source.Tip style:Serie 102. Tip only without any other components built in.Tip hot change:Yes, can be changed by hand without tools or protection, still you must take care. (If you want the tool: 3N544)ESD-Safe:YesMax Power:80W, 150ºc to 450ºcHeat up time in sec:± 9sWeight:1.05KgFeatures:stand-by, hibernation, digital, configurableGood for:Serious work, reability, long life tipsMy review:This station is excelent for the price, beeing the most cheap and best station you can get from a reputable brand that not come from China. The i-tool (Soldering Iron) is one of the best irons i have used, very light and small, feels like a pencil and perform extremely well. Tip performance are great and the lifespan is one of the best i have seen. While ERSA have other expensiver models like I-CON 1* and I-CON 2* and even the Vario serie the i-tool is always the same on those stations and will perform as well as this one, as i told before the tool and tips are the most important thing. Note: That supeior stations can deliver 150W peak and able to heat up the i-tool faster, while heater is the same, nano powers heater from 16.5V but higher end I-CON stations from 24V. But if used with smaller tips there is no much difference between them. Only if using large tips and soldering something with high thermal capacity, the difference becomes noticeable.My Advice:Buy tip sleeves (3IT1040-00 OR 3IT1045-00) for every tip you buy, change those things from tip to tip is hard and require some force, also if you have then already placed will allow you fast swap while hot, other way will be a pain to do that.Buy the I-CON 1 if you found a very very good price if that justify, i brought mine for about 287€ from thier website, better look and more power.Don't buy conical tips bellow (0.6mm - 0.5mm) they will perform bad for tiny SMD works and wick solder up, they will not keep solder at the end of the tip, however they fix that on new 0102PDLF03 0.3mm optimized tip and can do the work just fine leg by leg.There's also an cheaper version of this station, the i-con pico. But i think this is a best buy for the price, however if you can only go for that you will not regret either.DesolderingDesoldering stationsZD-8915Station Price:80€ - 90€Tip's Price:1€ - 2€, Cheap [0.8mm, 1.0mm, 1.3mm, 1.5mm]Tip's availability:Not many, easy to source.Tip hot change:Not recommended.ESD-Safe:YesMax Power:150WFeatures:DigitalGood for:Through hole desoldering, hobbyMy review:This station will perform good but require some maintenance after some use, good if if you ocasional need to suck solder and you are to lazy to use a manual pump. If you want to desoldering all day and continuously this tool is not for you.Advice:Buy all tips they are cheap and some spare filters to future use.Hot AirHot air is hot air, but only a few can deliver reability air with good temperature controlQuick 861DWSet Price:250€ - 300€ + ShippingNozzle Price:5€ - 40€ [NK-xx], ExpensiveNozzle availability:Very, hard to source.Nozzle style:NK-xx.Nozzle hot change:Yes but hard, need spare silicon pad.ESD-Safe:YesMax Power:1000WMax Temperature:+/-500ºcMax Airflow:+/-120L/mFeatures:stand-by, digital, profiles, temperature calibration.Good for:Fixed station, serious useAdvice:Buy quick nk-850 adaptor to use universal nozzles when needed. Buy JBC shields if you want/need to.My review:For the price this station is the best you can get, unbeatable price/features/performance. Heat up times are very fast and able to calibrate the temperature output. The max airflow is already higher than other top notch stations and can be used to solder larger BGA chips. This station performs extremely well and can do any kind of job. Interface is clear, fast and easy to use. One thing that could be better is the amount of profiles, only three avaliable, they could turn this into six by using a double click behaviour but it's more than ok. You will never lost your money on this or regret the buy. A downside when new is the unpleasant plastic smell, but after a three or more days with good air circulation that will go away.MicroscopeWhen it goes tiny sizes there no way to repair without a magnifier tool, if you are in SMD world you need one of this. There are cheap tools like crap usb cameras but will be tedious to work with despite low frame rate and quality. You can use some kind of magnifier or even glasses but not pratical to work with, make sure you always have two hands that you can use.AmScope SE400-ZSet Price:150€ - 230€ + ShippingStereo:YesHead:45 degree inclined binocular.Eyepieces:30.5mm widefield WF10x and WF20xObjective:1X.Zoom:Can't change, fixed with the Eyepieces (10x or 20x included)Can ajust height focus:YesCan ajust eyepieces focus:Yes*, only on left ocularIllumination:Yes, included in a goose neck style, ajustable position, 1W fixedDiopter Adjustment:+/-5dpWorking distance:+/- 9" (228mm / 22.8cm)Interpupillary Distance:2-0" - 2-15/16"(50-77mm)Boom-Arm Stand:12" arm (overall length: 17"), 13.5" high pillar, 7.5"x5.0"x2.5" steel base.Accessories:eye-guards.Good for:Hobby, small or moderate useMy review:One of best microscope you can buy with small money, easy to use, the quality is good and for inspection is more than ok, the included 10x eyepiece is what you will use all the time, 20x will not be that usefull, maybe you can benefit from it in some occasion but you will be lazy to change that just for one scenario. It will allow you to solder leg by leg, for example you wouldn't have any difficulty to view and exchange a micro usb port pin by pin. The working distance is excellent, the 22.8cm give you a lot more freedom that other alternatives, you can solder under it and even use hot air in a low angle.Advice:Put one or two dead acid batteries on top of the microscope to make it heavier to prevent accidents and falls, microscope base is heavy but not enough in my opinion. If you can, buy the 5x 10x version if avaliable. If you have the money and you are serious about repair and smd please buy the AmScope SM-4xxxx (See below), it worth all the extra.AmScope SM-4TP or SM-4NTPSet Price:400€ - 550€ + Shipping [EU: 600-800€]Stereo:YesTrinocular:Yes - Camera portSimul-focual:YesHead:45-degree inclined, 360-degree swiveling trinocularEyepieces:30mm super widefield high-eyepoint (WF10X/20)Objective:1X, can buy an adaptor to 0.5X or 2XZoom:Ajustable 0.7-4.5X, Zoom Range: 6.5:1Can ajust height focus:YesCan ajust eyepieces focus:YesIllumination:Sold separately or part of the kitDiopter Adjustment:+/-5dpMaximum Field of View:1-1/4" (31.75mm)Minimum Field of View:3/16" (2.5mm)Working distance:+/- 4" (100mm)Interpupillary Distance:2-3/16" - 2-15/16" (55-75mm)Boom-Arm Stand:20" double-arm (overall length: 30"), 17" high pillar, 10-1/4"x8-1/4"x2-0" solid cast steel baseAccessories:eye-guards.Good for:Professional, heavy and serious useMy review:One of best microscope you can buy for the repair world, easy to use, lot of ajustments, the quality is excelent, and very heavy it will not go any where. The zoom knob is very usefull, you can change from varios zoom levels without the need to replace the eyepieces or objectives, you will find yourself ajusting the zoom for each situation you need to check. The improvement over AmScope SE400-Z is huge. If you have the money don't think twice.Advice:Buy the SM-4NTP if you can, it have lockable zoom (No usefull feature) but it have some level marks at eyepieces to know the focus level for each side, the NTP cost the same as the NP and seens like newer model but both will perform equally.Buy a 144 LED Ring from China, for low as 20€ or 25€, theres no need to pay the extra for original ones, they are very expensive for what they are.Buy 0.5X objective adaptor it will cut de maximum Zoom to half and increasing the working distance to the double, while you will never use the max zoom you can benefit from more working distance and lower zoom levels to see more things at once. Some people say that lens can slight decrease the image quality, maybe they do maybe they not i use one and didn't notice that, make sure you buy the original AmScope len and not other brand that can have that negative effect. If you not go with that len buy the 1x len just to cover and protect main objective from damage or dirt, it is cost effective and you keep your scope protected from splash and fumes.Buy only the version that have TP on the name, that mean is simul-focal and others aren't. Simul-focal allow you to view from every port at same time, mean you can use your eyes and a camera at same time without the need to switch the light hole entrance.You will find very variants of this microscope, the difference will be in the included extras, just buy the base model and upgrade it with what you want. The extras are very overpriced and nosense, even included cameras are crap.Microscope Cameras C-MountIf you need to show your work, record, teaching and others under a microscope you will need a camera. There are a lot of cameras out there, you will choose the right one for your needs and for your equipment.Please note the light you use will have a large impact on image quality, for example the led rings will create big reflections on board, a angled light source is prefered.1080PHASensor:Sony IMX236(C)Resolution:1080P FullHDRecording:1080P FullHD 30FPS via SDCard, USB, HDMI + Capture CardLive image:Yes via HDMI 60fps scaled from 30fps, via USB 30fps, both can be used at same timeOther features:Built in software over HDMI and Mouse, settings can be ajusted such as auto exposure, colors and othersPrice:+/- 280€(Read article whole description for more information)720PHCSensor:SONY Exmor CMOS Sensor IMX222Resolution:720P HDRecording:30FPS via SDCard (1920x1080), USB (1920x1080), HDMI + Capture Card (1280x720). Note: FullHD resolution is scaled from 720pLive image:Yes via HDMI 60fps scaled from 30fps, via USB 30fps, both can be used at same timeOther features:Built in software over HDMI and Mouse, settings can be ajusted such as auto exposure, colors and othersPrice:+/- 160€(Read article whole description for more information)There are also other better cameras with best sensors and image quality but they are very expensive and lack of HDMI connection. For commodity HDMI is a must have in my opinion. This cameras are also USB3.0 and will require a PC with USB 3.0 ports to decode image in good frame rate.My recommendation would go to 1080PHA and 0.35x adaptor, but if you have a less margin is ok to go with 720PHC (Less resolution and worse sensor but is OK!)0.35X focus adjustable C mount adapter for New type of Amscope's Trinocular Stereo microscopeThis is very important to have with the camera, the included stock c-mount port from Amscope is not good, hard to sync with eyes and camera focus at same time, it will rotate easy and dust will enter inside your trinocular port, or use some ugly tape!. The adaptor i recommend for who goes with Amscope trinocular and these cameras, it will firmly secure your camera and have a horizontal knob to ajust focus, very easy to sync with eyepieces, a must have, don't ignore this!ToolsThermometersDon't spend a fortune on this, cheap equipement will be as good as expensive ones.Hakko FG-100Price:10€ - 20€Resolution:1°c / 1FRange:0~700ºc / 32~1300FSensor Type:K(CA)ThermocoupleSensor availablity:Easy to source, cheapTolerance:±3C(Range300~600C) ±5C(Othertemperature range) ±6F(Range572~1112F) ±10F(Othertemperature range)Power source:9V Batteries (recommended: alkaline batteries)External dimensions:68(W)×140(H)×38(D)mmWeight:115g(Does not contain batteries)Operating Temperature Range:0~40C, 20~90%RH,No condensationGood for:Iron tips, gun tips, desoldering gun tips, other equipement that require direct contact. A must buy tool for every station to make sure the temperature is realTM-902C K-TypePrice:4€ - 10€Resolution:1°cRange:-50~1300ºcSensor Type:K(CA)ThermocoupleSensor availablity:Easy to source, cheapTolerance:0? to 500? ±(0.75%±1?) 500? to 750? ±(1%±1?) / 0? to -20? ±2? / 750?~1000?(-3?~0?) / -20? to -40?:±3? / 1000?~1370?(-5?~-3?) / -40? to -50?:-3?Power source:9V Batteries (recommended: alkaline batteries)External dimensions:68(W)×140(H)×38(D)mmWeight:68g (Does not contain batteries)Good for:Hot air stations and guns, IR Stations, BGA Replacement, Reworks, other no direct contact.My Review:Temperature is accurate, LCD update very fast but poor view angles. A must buy tool.(To be continued, i will write more on my spare times)Add your personal reviews

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 02:52:13 am
content: (Reserved for changelog)[21/11/2017]- Added Microscope cameras and adaptor29/10/2017- Added AmScope SE-400Z and SM-4TP microscopes23/10/2017- Added ZD-8915 desoldering station17/10/2017- Added ERSA i-con nano Station15/10/2017:- Added UniSolder 5.2 Station

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 05:58:51 am
content: A-BF 205H 220V 150W High-frequency soldering stationPower:150WOutput Temperature:200°C ~600°CTemperature Stability: ±5°CHeating Element: High Frequence Eddy HeaterStandard Tip: 500-T-BUSD 124,70

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 02:40:31 pm
content: I have seen many stations like that but never tried one.How does it perform? Can solder SMD tiny pins one by one? How perform the finer tips? Stand by? Hibernation?600ºc seens a overkill and a tip killer, it is even well calibrated?

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:11:08 pm
content: Interesting suggestions. Thank You.a question: where is the JND Advanced - JBC C245 Clone station available (at the reported price)?I could find only one obscure site listing it a abot 250 USD and another one at more than 500 USD.Regarding the Hakko tip thermometer, you show the original one, but the price you report is for a clone unit. The original is priced ad about 100 USD, that is really too much.I have a clone that works perfectly and I believe is as good as the original, but the Hakko logo is absent..Recntly I built an Hakko T12 clone kit, and I'm really satisfied. For me the tip to handle distance is not a problem (I have a Weller WS81, but the barrel is too large for some of my applications, and the clone T12 tip is smaller.There is a BAKON station, model 950D, that is a T12 clone with a different handle, and like the original HAKKO keeps more of the tip inside the handle, reducing the distance. It is also really cheap (a little more than the kit, but it is ready built...)Best regards

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:26:52 pm
content: Quote from: ciccio on October 15, 2017, 07:11:08 pmTheres a link below JND image named Link to aliexpress, please check. Postage will be expensive depending on your country because this will ship using express delivery - EMS, Fedex, DHL, etc. Heavy to send as normal post.Hakko thermomter is a clone of course, the photo i show is also from a clone, the tools i post you can easy found on Aliexpress or eBay, while a clone theres no science on that as is just a k-type sensor + a pcb that read the value and report back, 100€ for such unit is a waste in my opinion.T12 lenght is not a problem you can also buy a slave to cover most of the tip.I know about that BAKON, need to investigate them and maybe post them as alternative too.You can also do your T12 review, i will add to main postThank you for your output.Regards

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:36:10 pm
content: Sidenote: I'm surprised to see the JBC clone and I'm wondering whether you can use original replacement tips with it. I'm not a fan of JBC because their tips will be FUBAR when left on for a day but they are not bottom of the barrel either so it may be a budget way to get a decent soldering station if you can use the original tips.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 15, 2017, 07:36:10 pmYou can use original handle and tips without a problem. Precision handle will also work.I only dislike tip pricePS: I will add other station capable of run many different tools, inc. JBC and micro tweezers

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on October 15, 2017, 07:26:52 pmI've ordered some spare tips, because the kit is supplied with a single large blade shaped tip the is not fit to to most of my work needs.Waiting for the tips I'm working on a new case for the station, because the plastic one supplied is too small for the power supply unit I bought.I Hope in two weeks to have everything ready for a review. In the past week I've used the station for some work, with good results.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: ciccio on October 15, 2017, 07:54:26 pmYes, always check what is included, tips are dam cheap always buy some spare in different shapes.I like the metal cases, but i had a 3D printer, unlimited casesNice good to hear that.Main post updated with more alternatives

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:22:43 pm
content: Any advice on a cheap vacuum pump desoldering station?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 18, 2017, 11:22:43 pmHello, i was about to post about that.You have the ZD-8915 [+/-85€], you can look at. That should be better than the previous ZD-915

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 06:13:44 pm
content: Quotei-tool is not limited to 80W. It's 150W peak. The difference between nano and higher end stations is that, while heater is the same, nano powers heater from 16.5 V but higher end I-CON stations from 24V. Some time ago I measured heater resistance and calculated that power should be a little bit over 150W if powered from 24V. But if used with smaller tips there is no much difference between them. Only if using large tips and soldering something with high thermal capacity, the difference becomes noticeable.http://www.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/tools-for-soldering-stations/produkt-details/i-tool-1.htmlhttp://www.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/tools-for-soldering-stations/produkt-details/i-tool-nano-1.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 06:29:00 pm
content: Power rating for quick is not correct.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 07:51:48 pm
content: T12 clone kit preliminary test results:As I posted before, I builta a T12 clone kit, bought from Bangood.I received the power supply board (also from Banggod) and installed everything into an Hammond extruded aluminium enclosure I had on one shelf, never used.After completing the wiring I fired up the station, and discovered a big problem: if I ground the tip to PE and the enclosure body, the display is unstable: it randomly jumps from 370 (stable set temperature) to 250 for 1 second, then 370 for 10 seconds then another value for 1 second, and so on.It is also difficult to enter the configuration menu.Please note that is the current temperature reading that is unstabe: the real temperature is stable, as shown by the thermometer and by actual use....If I unground the tip (disconnecting it from PE and from the case), the display is rock stable.For now, I have no time for further experiments, but I think that as soon as possible I will add two Y caps to the power supply, because it has only one X cap.Not sure this will be a solution, but It is a simple and inexpensive test.I fear that part of the problem is due to the very thin gauge of the wires in the supplied cable.A question for all:somebody can explain me the operaion of an Hakko T12 clone?The tip temperature is measured with a sensor inside the tip, or by checking the resistance value of the heater?For what I see, the tip (let's name it "cartrige") has 3 contact, labelled plus, minus and earth.If there is a separate sensor (in my kit's instructions there are mentions to a thermocouple) how is it wired?On another forum thread some forum member says that he grounded the plug/socket body with no problems. I think that this is not my case: I tried, but the instability remains.For now I will use the station with the tip ungrounded: first impressions are very favourable: lots of heating power, stable temperature.Edit to report about the last results of the test:Grounding the tip seems impossible: even with an external, linear DC supply the reading remain unstable.The spare tips bought on Banggod have a crap coating, like the one supplied with the kit. I'm not sure they will last a long time.I will search for an original Hakko tip and see the results.I used the kit for soldering some boards(about 600 joints) and the operation, and the results, are very good.I like it very much. For the price it is an incredibly good unit.The firmware allows to configure some parameters (sleep time, power off time, temperature compensation, etc, but you must be very quick to read the (some times obscure) instructions and modify/accept the paramete's value, or it will automatically exit configuration. This is annoying, but you'll do it only a few times.Actual use is simple.Edit to report final modificationsAfter reading sn4k3 post in the dedicated T12 clone discussion, I followed his suggestion and increased the gauge of the two wires from power supply to control board. It was simpler to solder two 0.7 mm2 wires to the pads of the power connector and connect them to the PSU, leaving the original wires in place.Now the final equivalent gauge is about 1 mm2. (original about .35 mm2 in parallel with added 0.7 mm2.I shorted GND to negative. The Original GND wire is connecte to case and PE.Reading is now stable up to more than 400°C, and the tip is groundedThis soldering station is now working very well. Next step will be to buy an original HAKKO cartridge.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:21:11 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 27, 2017, 06:13:44 pmThank you for clarify, i have updated the text with your words.Quote from: wraper on October 27, 2017, 06:29:00 pmThats true, i have corrected, dam copy paste

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 12:41:25 am
content: "somebody can explain me the operaion of an Hakko T12 clone?"Have a thermocouple inside the tip, The measurement is made while power is off on PWM cycle, since the thermocouple is is series with the resistance

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 06:16:20 am
content: ^To expound on that:Center ring is the positiveMiddle ring is the negativeOuter ring in the ground/sheathI believe the thermocouple is designed as the leads to the heater. Between the positive contact to the heater is say metal A. And between the heater and the negative contact is another kind of metal B (perhaps with a little bit of metal A on both sides of the heater). So the heater is actually just stuck right in the middle of the thermocouple, AFAIK, and the contact end of the T12 tip is the actual cold junction. I should take one apart, eventually.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 11:09:12 am
content: Thank you for the explanation, but I actually do not understand very well.I used thermocouples for years in one of my prevuous jobs, and designed TC amplifiers, including cold junction compensation and related problems.In your decription I cannot find where the the actual thermocouple junction is...When I'll get the time, I'll take apart one of the cartriges.Best regards

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 01:03:39 pm
content: The TM902C can be found powered by either 2x1.5V AAA batteries or 1x9V battery. Most of you WANT the AAA version for FAR better battery life. If the listing doesn't specify, it's probably the 9V version.If you already have a 9V version, they work fine, but the battery life is way shorter than it should be because a lot is lost in the 3V regulator. They're pretty easy to convert to 3V if you get an AAA battery holder for the battery compartment. Simply replace the 9V input with 3V input. Then optionally remove the regulator from the circuit, as it's no longer needed.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 01:39:41 pm
content: Don't know if is T12 tip or other but i found this:You can also view this video:It explains the thermocouple inside tip and how to handle it (JBC)

author: progrock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:17:18 am
content: Great recommendations... already in the process of building a UniSolder 5.2, hopefully it works out. Trying to hold back on ordering a TS100, since I technically don't need it... but it does look pretty nice for what it is, and obviously really portable.The reason I am posting is actually because of your Microscope recommendations. I'm very tempted to grab one... but while I'm sure the SE400-Z is a great microscope for the money, as you basically point out, it's pretty limited, and not much you can do with it as far as upgrades. The SM-4TP definitely seems like a very good choice... besides already being a great trinocular with Simul-Focal, it has tons of upgrade potential... definitely not a dead end. I'm still not fully sure about the difference between the SM-4TP and SM-4NTP... you recommend the NTP?.. though at least by going off of price, the TP appears to be the more expensive, higher end component... seems somewhat strange. Also, after looking through Amscope's website thoroughly, I started to like the articulating arm that comes with the SM-8* models.... which seemed to be more expensive, usually a lot more. But after searching, I found the same microscope head as on the one you recommend (http://www.amscope.com/accessories/microscope-head/7x-45x-trinocular-zoom-stereo-microscope-simul-focal-head.html) for $279 and the stand I liked for $200, coming to $479... just about $20 more than the SM-4TP (and technically I think you could save a few more dollars ordering from amscope on aliexpress). I also found this trinocular parfocal head for $350 that looks really nice (http://www.amscope.com/accessories/microscope-head/6-7x-45x-ultimate-parfocal-trinocular-stereo-zoom-microscope-head.html) ... I think no simulfocal, but seems like the parfocal's are usually a lot more, and could be pretty nice to use.Anyway, I both wanted to post this to give other people a heads up that there are other ways of ordering this microscope, while still getting pretty much all the benefits of your recommendations. I also wanted to see if you may know something I don't and would not recommend either of the "upgrades" I might choose (so far leaning towards at least the different stand... undecided on the Microscope, need to learn more). I'm not seeing any real benefits of the dual arm boom stand vs the one I linked to... I suppose it's easier to move, since it has a base instead of a clamp... BUT I don't really think I'll be moving mine out of reach of where I'm thinking of clamping it, PLUS it would be pretty cheap to purchase a weighted base with the right size pole to mount the arm on that if I ever wanted to upgrade (and while I could get it from Amscope, I assume that any base that weighs enough and has the right diameter pole, would be just as good if not better, and likely cheaper). Your thoughts?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 09:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: progrock on November 20, 2017, 10:17:18 amThank youUniSolder 5.2 is a good station if you wan't multiple tools, it also have some mods to put bigger lcd and other improvements.TS100 for me is a must have, not because portability, not because of pencil size, not because can be battery powered, only because it perform very very good and at that price is unbelievable! Not the best shape ofc but you will never know once you try it, for me fells right in the handQuote from: progrock on November 20, 2017, 10:17:18 amAs i told if you do lot of microsoldering or will use a microscope alot, go for SM-4** model or similar, SE400-z is more for quick jobs or when you use it from time a time and don't require much from a microscope to be fair the SE400-z image quality is good as SM-4** but without the variable zoom and upgradesQuote from: progrock on November 20, 2017, 10:17:18 amI have contacted amscope when i first saw NTP, they can't anwser my questions pointing out only the specs, but i think is a newer model, it have lockable zoom (You can lock zoom and it will not move) a useless feature for me and 99.999% of people, but NTP got eyepiece focus marks (1,2,3,4,5) look at images, you can ajust the focus level easy and change fast if you renember the numbers. TP otherwise you spend some time trying to put both eyepieces correctly and at same level, i spend lot of time with that and never seens at same level, so for me make sense the NTP, these look the only differences to me both simul-focal and confirmed by amscope by contacting them.3: Single stand Simple (Avoid that)4: Dual Boom StandN: I don't know what meansT: TrinocularP: Simul-FocalX: Barrow len included 0.5x (0.35x-45x)Y: Barrow len included 2x (0.7x-90x)Z: (X+Y) 0.35x - 90x144: 144 LED Ring30WY: 30W Dual Gooseneck30WR: 30W Led RingFRL: Flurescent Light3M: 3MP Camera (Crap)5M: 5MP Camera10M: 10MP Camera14M: 14MP Camera........For me the best combination is 4NTPX OR 4NTPZ, all other extras are overpricedAnd you have other letters with meanings for lights and cameras.Quote from: progrock on November 20, 2017, 10:17:18 amYou can always buy the head alone and a articulated arm, thats ok, you have to decide what best fit your workbench or your case. Articulated have the advantage of moving fast and ajust at any position, is good if you need to work nearby but in different places. The disadvantage can be with image, it will shake easy and for recording may not be that good. Also arms can loose streng over time (get loose).Dual Arm stand is very strong and heavy, will not go anywhere, easy and fast to use, always calibrated, good if you always use that position to work. You can ajust head rotation and arm length very quickly too without unfocus.In my case i like stand more, when using articulated arm you have to fix it anywhere and that can be in the way of something, maybe good if you fix-it far behind or topIf you have the time view and listen this video:Quote from: progrock on November 20, 2017, 10:17:18 amDual arm stand have very benefits, the head is heavy if you use weak stand it will tilt easy and can fall.SE-400z for example can be easy knockout and standy is heavy... I recommend use a dual acid battery in top of that stand. With dual arm you are always safe and lot of ajustments. You can put the microscope at your side, upside you, downside whatever it always have a ajustment to meet your eyes.As for upgrades you can go cheap with led ring from china, the main disavantage is light is pointed straight and it will create reflections on board, you will have to put the board in a 45ºc angle to read a ic reference for example. To overcome this problem use low light from ring or use Dual Gooseneck lightThank you for your input, it's a plus for everyone

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:26:20 pm
content: Re: Louis's video above, which is fairly recent. He's now reverted to using his old single-boom stand instead of the articulating one. I can only guess that the shaking for the video stream drove himself and/or the viewers crazy.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:50:45 pm
content: ^Another one of his reviews, he is grossly upset that a more expensive scope doesn't have SimulFocus compared to a lesser expensive one.AFAIK, SimulFocus is not a matter of "this is an upgrade over that." Having the camera port share real estate with the eye pieces all the time means that some of your light is going to a camera you might not be using. And vice versa, when you're using the camera on a SimulFocus, a lot of your light is going to both eyepieces. Switching the trinocular port in with the left eyepiece is potentially an upgrade, depending on your usage.I think of it as a permanent cable splitter vs a switch. One is splitting up and degrading the signal all the time, even though you can't actually look thru the eye pieces AND a monitor at the same time.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 11:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on November 20, 2017, 10:26:20 pmMaybe, articulated arm looks awesome at first but after some time...Quote from: KL27x on November 20, 2017, 10:50:45 pmSimul-Focal is not an upgrade, it's a feature. If the user never use or don't have the intention to use the camera port is OK to not have that. But i have seen P models cheaper than no P models, so it worth anyway.You can't watch eyepieces and LCD at same time, but if you wan't to record video and work at same time? Show your work to other while you work? Formative scenarios etc. You must have a simul-focal, work with one eye will be painfull and work looking at lcd will lose a bit of quality, low fps (some cameras), not real time. I have a good HDMI Camera with 60fps and it i heavy notice the lag and draging.My cam60FPS30FPS record FULLHD:For the price Simul-Focal is a win (+/- 100€ difference)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 10:07:55 am
content: That looks not too shabby. Can I ask what camera and c-mount you use? Would you recommend it?

author: progrock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 10:46:31 am
content: Thank you for the very clear explanations. I'm still undecided on the stand, BUT I was leaning heavily towards the articulating arm, but I think now I am leaning slightly towards the dual arm stand. I usually like articulating arms... I live in a studio apartment (I suppose a somewhat large studio, at least for SF) and have a pretty good mounting spot that would cover pretty close to all of my work area. But the potential for it to shake is definitely a pretty bug negative. Also, I didn't think about the whole staying in focus thing... the dual arm boom stand definitely has it's positives. TBH I don't know how much I'd really be using the camera feature (let alone when I would get a camera for it)... but definitely an option I want to have open for the future.I was also thinking the same thing about the Simul-Focal... it would have to split the light at all times, and that could definitely be seen as a negative. I'm also not sure how much it would be of use to me again.... I don't really plan on making videos at this point, nor am I in an environment where I would have someone looking over my shoulder while I work. None the less, I suppose it's another thing where it might be better to have the option for the future than not to. If the splitting of the light isn't generally a problem for people, then I suppose it's not a huge negative.I'm still considering the Parfocal head, tho that could be another reason to choose the double arm stand, the idea that I could leave it at the exact height, but zoom in and out a large range sounds pretty damn nice. Of course I'd be losing the Simu Focal feature then (but again, for my working conditions, the parfocal abilities likely out weigh the Simul Focal). If it was just Simul Focal vs no Simul Focal, I figure it's a safer bet getting it... but if it's Simul Focal vs Parfocal, then I think it really depends on the  use of it. The one big concern with this Parfocal head (http://www.amscope.com/accessories/microscope-head/6-7x-45x-ultimate-parfocal-trinocular-stereo-zoom-microscope-head.html) is the camera port. It appears to have a different port than all the other ones I have seen, presumably a cheaper/worse port than the others... but as far as Parfocal heads go, I think they jump up in price quite a bit for any of the others... I'm assuming this one's lower price is very much due to the downgrade there. Anyone have experience with the Parfocal heads?.... if you do, do you recommend it?I'm starting to run into situations where a good Microscope would be really nice to have, so I might be biting the bullet pretty soon (was originally trying to convince myself to wait a little while). The advice so far has been extremely helpful, thank you!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 12:03:22 pm
content: I'm gonna throw something out there, and you can do with it what you will.I have purchased two Amscopes. An SM4-TX and 1BSX. None of the info I have ever read claimed they were parfocal. They are most certainly parfocal.I had thought perhaps that parfocal was something that pretty much all Amscopes have. The "parfocal" head you have linked is physically different from the two I have, for sure. And the advert suggests it has perhaps superior optics to some other models. But I strongly suspect the "parfocal" part is a marketing gimmick, at least in this specific context.Perhaps it is possible some of the stereomicroscopes out there will actually change focal distance when zooming in/out. And in fact, I have heard a lot of people state that paying for a Leica or Nikon is worth it, partly due to being "parfocal."Now, I have heard a few people who have purchased an Amscope claim to notice that their microscope is not quite perfect in focus across the entire range of zoom. But I wonder if this isn't just inexperience, from this being their first scope + "scope snobs" putting this idea into their head.What I have observed is that parfocality is dependent on the eyepiece adjustment. You have to tune the eyepiece to get perfect parfocus. If your scope is "close, but not quite perfect," I imagine it is highly unlikely that the head is designed with a type of zoom mechanism that inherently changes the focal distance. It seems to me that this would not be in the right zipcode, at all. My bet would be that they just haven't adjusted their scope eyepieces to achieve parfocus.I could be wrong, but I believe this is why we were taught to adjust only the left eyepiece in biology class. Once you have tuned the right eyepiece, that is the only spot where the scope will be parfocal. Now, different students can adjust only the left eyepiece to account for their individual vision.I'm far from an expert in microscopes. I could be wrong, and I frequently am.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 08:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 21, 2017, 10:07:55 amIt output 60FPS to LCDs but only record at 30FPS, is double sampling for HDMI.Also image can be better if you use directional light. My 144LED ring creat lot of unwanted reflections!!Camera i Use: 1080PHAPlease check main post, i have updatedMy unbox:https://www.facebook.com/PTRTECH/photos/?tab=album&album_id=306519176498929

author: progrock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 01:46:34 am
content: KL27x, very interesting/good point... makes total sense as well. They also need to distinguish between the parts, but sine they are both good, likely didn't want to one to sound negative or something, so simply highlighted the parfocal functionality more in the one (or maybe it is a bit superior in that regard). Either way, thank you for reminding me that these titles are more marketing than specifications, plus not like the SM-4TP says "non-parfocal".Well guys, looks like I have circled back around, and likely just gonna go with the SM-4TP, or SM-4NTP (still wanna talk to their sales rep to get a full explanation of the differences there). The advice has been great, and glad I looked around and had you guys explain the benefit of the one that was originally recommended. Otherwise, I may have bought it, then saw the articulating arm stand for about the same price, and been really disappointed... this way I am aware of the options, and making the choice for good reasons.My plan is to make it through black Friday... maybe even "cyber monday" or whatever the new marketing gimmick is... and see how much I end up spending those days, to decide whether or not to order the microscope right away, or wait a few more weeks to a month or so. OR, maybe it'll go on sale at some point over this extended weekend, in which case, it'll be a win for me.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 05:06:21 am
content: I have to update my last post!It recently came to my attention that the 1BSX I bought is not quite parfocal, afterall. The recipient of this scope mentioned having some minor issues, so I took a close look at it. This is what I found:When the right eye was tuned to be parfocal, the left eye would go slightly in/out of focus across the range of zoom. And vice versa. Swapping the eyepieces didn't change anything.I suspect that there is someone with just the right amount of asymmetry in their eyes who would love this scope. But for someone with equal vision in both eyes, this scope is definitely not able to be truly parfocal. But by adjusting the eye pieces just so, it's very minor. It's barely noticeable when looking for it, except at maybe the last few percent of zoom. If the zoom knob were blocked at that point, one would probably not even notice. In fact, this finding was a red herring. The operator has trouble seeing the image with both eyes at the same time. With some help, I got him there, but he has to touch his glasses all the way against the eyepieces. His interpupillary distance is about 7 mm smaller than mine, so I think that has something to do with it.My own personal SM4-TX, I perceive to be perfectly parfocal, as best as I can tell. Also, I perceive the optics on mine are noticeably better. I perceive some minor distortion in the 1BSX.Sample of 1 each tells nothing, really, but the SM4-TX is the more expensive microscope. But now I suspect that if you have to change the focus knob after changing the zoom, you just haven't tuned the eyepieces correctly. On this bogie-focal IBSX, it is one of the eyepieces you would have to adjust when maxing out the zoom.

author: madcat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2018, 05:57:59 am
content: i don't know if it is appropriate to ask here or should create a new thread instead, but i think it's still related to the title "budget/cheap", so here it is :i'm in the market for a sidekick (hobbyist) portable soldering iron then i saw this :https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QUICKO-T12-Mini-Adjustable-Temperature-Electric-Soldering-Iron-DC12-24V-soldering-station-Constant-temperature-Welding-Tool/2954088_32834012515.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.4a5271b7MLfskTthe price is so tempting.for only about $10 incl. a T12 tip (tip type is selectable by our request), has adjustable temperature and receives a standard 5.5x2.1mm input jack, it looks like a "simplified" T100 iron to me.according to the seller, the temperature is controlled with "616 dev module" built-in, whatever that means.is there anyone here has some experience with this soldering iron? any thoughts?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2018, 07:46:42 pm
content: Quote from: madcat on March 02, 2018, 05:57:59 amFor the price it cost can't be much good, but not hurt to try it since the value is so low...But you better go T12 clone station or TS100 anyway

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 02:38:31 am
content: ^For the price, it can be just fine. If you look at the electronics in these T12 clones, it's not much in there. The bulk of the cost is in the housing and the powersupply, which this doesn't even come with.This is just a clone handle and 2.00 pcb in it to read the thermocouple and switch the power. Plenty of money to do that right. No LCD, no power. It's not particularly much for the money.I know what the 616 reference is. The 616 pcb uses a dual 358 opamp to read and pulse the power out. There is no microcontroller in it. Very simple board. It's like a one-shot timer on the power pulse, then it re-triggers as long as the sensor output is lower than the set point. The version used in this type of handle probably has a linear regulator, 10 resistors, a pot, two or 3 caps, a dual opamp, and a couple transistors.

author: madcat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 05:21:23 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on March 02, 2018, 07:46:42 pmactually i just bought a T12 clone station already and it still on its way to my door, but i just can't take my eyes off of this iron, it is like "buy a T12 tip and get an adjustable iron handle for free" thing.Quote from: KL27x on March 03, 2018, 02:38:31 amhow do you think about that 616 ref performance to control tip temperature from set temp? does it works good enough or will it drift out far away?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 05:29:22 am
content: Quote from: madcat on March 03, 2018, 05:21:23 amCable ergonomics not good with this iron, is like the ts100 but worst, When you connect the DC jack to it, there will be two different forces on the cable, that split will make it a bit hard to play with.But in any case you can redo the wiring with proper cable eg: 2m flexible silicone cableT12 station easy wins in that situation, a light iron is much more fun to work with

author: madcat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 08:14:04 am
content: ahh.. that makes sense. thank you for point it out about the cable ergonomics.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 02:59:13 am
content: QuoteI had a mini 616 controller pcb, bought off eBay and shipped from China. I didn't get to try it out, though. It was only good for up to 20V, and I tried to modify it for 24V, but I failed to consider everything, apparently.The Suhan 616 clone station that I have uses the same basic circuit but has some additional components so it can run off 24.5V psu. I find it works great. I didn't spend a lot of time testing it with a thermocouple or anything. I mean I did, just to check the calibration. And the temp didn't fluctuate while measuring. But in real world soldering, there is nothing for me to complain about. This station reaches 300C from cold in about 10 seconds.

author: madcat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 05:27:48 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on March 04, 2018, 02:59:13 amwell that's a bummer. it's supposed to operate at 12-24v as advertised.is this kind of module that you've bought? -->https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-12-24V-Mini-T12-Temperature-Control-Board-LED-DIY-for-Soldering-Iron-Station/32764034081.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10340_10341_10084_10083_10618_10307_5711211_10313_10059_10534_100031_10103_10627_10626_10624_10623_10622_5722411_10621_10620_5711311,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=68adac44-bf06-4f04-8170-a567b1fdc579-0&algo_pvid=68adac44-bf06-4f04-8170-a567b1fdc579&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0Quote from: KL27x on March 04, 2018, 02:59:13 amhope the Quicko 942 "DC version" station i've bought will perform the same as yours.and when i feel need to buy another tip for it, maybe i will buy that cheapie adjustable iron one instead, just want to play a little with it.thank you for all thoughts & suggestions guys. really appreciate all of it. cheers.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 09:52:54 pm
content: Yeah, something like that.If the description says 24V, I wouldn't doubt it. There are different variations of this "616" circuit.

author: madcat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2018, 09:53:46 am
content: my Quicko 942 has arrived. just play a little bit with it and yes it definitely a decent soldering station for me. its size is only a quarter by the length of those T12 clone station. only takes 10-15 seconds to reach 250c using a 19v laptop brick. for about $25 usd i'm very pleased.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2018, 12:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on March 04, 2018, 02:59:13 amDoes somebody have a wiring diagram for this little board?I have one that a friend bought from Banggod, but they do not have any kind of instructions for it, and even the e-bay sellers don't.I think that with some patience I could find how to connect it, but some instructiond could be useful...Best regards

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2018, 01:27:50 pm
content: Quote from: ciccio on March 10, 2018, 12:29:57 pmIf it's this one:https://world.taobao.com/item/556040205106.htmScroll down for various pictures. Hopefully that will be enough. If not, find someone who can read the image text.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2018, 02:19:52 pm
content: The link did not work, but I found it on Taobao using the item number. Thanks, it is enough..I'll try it as soon as possible.Best regards

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 07:57:22 am
content: I have this one:https://www.banggood.com/YIHUA-908D-220V-LED-Digital-Display-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-Kit-p-1059873.htmlIt costs 24$ but I got it for 18$ only. Works fine for me and very fast... Can't go wrong for 24$. I bought 2 units, one of them got its heating element burned after couple of uses so I guess this is just bad luck. I bought heating element alone which is also cheap. Totally recommend it.

author: Southerner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 05:37:47 pm
content: The Amscope SE400Z microscope is a great little microscope. I have a Nichon SMZ1 and an SMZ645 but found the working distance to be too close whereas the SE400Z's 9 working distance is just right. Also the price of the SE400Z was 1/3 what I paid for either the SMZ1 or the SMZ645.

author: YTSOC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2018, 06:17:14 pm
content: Hello everyone, i'm in need to buy a relatively cheap soldering station ; here's my story :Until recently i worked in a electronics repair shop where i use an ersa icon pico and boy did i love that station. The tip was incredible , it lasted 3(or more) years of daily use in a repair shop... if that's not quality i don;t know what is. Overall impressed with "bang for buck" and the very small and easy to use pencil-like toolNow that i don't work there anymore i need to buy myself a soldering station for my small projects that i work on at home(until now i could just use the tools from work)My first choice was the ts100 but searching the internet i found other cheaper stations that used T12 tips :Bakon BK950D and other ones that have oled or led screensWhat should i chose? i'm not interested in the portability aspect of the ts100, i just need to get as close as possible to the icon pico in terms of soldering capabilitiesI guess it comes down to... tips? are t12 tips better that what the ts100 uses?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2018, 06:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: YTSOC on May 25, 2018, 06:17:14 pmIf you are used to ERSA and that work great for you, why not order one for yourself? I think the Ersa Nano is "relatively cheap" and is a very good station, worth every cent. Ersa tips can last longer than 3 years with proper careYou can find that T12 clones not as pratical as the i-tool when you used to i-con. But if you really wan't to go that route to spare some money, the T12 clones are all pratical the same, the handle and control board is what changes, and of course the quality can vary from seller to seller but not that much. Buy what you think is best for you. KSGER and QUICKO have good units.

author: YTSOC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2018, 07:51:49 pm
content: the price difference is quite big: ersa is appx 260 us dollarsI was curious if someone used all of them: ts100 , ersa and chinese t12; what would be better when comparing soldering capabilities? ts100 or the china t12?I kinda like that the ts100 has big user base and software alternatives, but it seems like the tip is far from the grip

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2018, 09:58:22 pm
content: Quote from: YTSOC on May 25, 2018, 07:51:49 pmPrice is lot higher, but still is a low price for a high performance station, comparing to big brands.I have all that 3.ERSA wins in every aspect, better handle, light, better heat recovery, more power, good interface, fast, cheap tips, nothing wrong really.TS100 works very well, almost similar to ersa but with less power, this only matter if you want to solder huge planes like heatsinks. The tiny tips work better than ersa eg. (0.2mm), the only good tiny ersa tip is the 0.3 new optimized tip, all others will suck the solder up at body and not at tip, so they are useless from 0.2mm to 0.5mm. Even the TS-ILS 0.15mm tip can do the job fine, solder melt at tip.The only downside of TS100 i will say ergonomics, not much about the handle but more about the cable, if you use heavy or normal adaptor cables it will fatige more and you will end to do more force at handle, this can be fixed by install a new cable from adaptor, a flexible silicone cable, this way TS100 is much more usable. TS100 also offer less tips than T12 or ersa.To improve TS100 i use this:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183179397286That turn the iron into kinda fixed station with flexible cable, but that will increase your price, so you can mod an adaptor with the cable onlyT12 doesn't fell as good as TS100 at my use experience, but i only have used clones with clone tips, if you go original tips i guess the quality will be much higher. The TS100 overall performance looks better to me than the T12.Resume:1) ERSA2) TS100 with cable mod3) T12If you will use your station everyday and heavy use go ersa.For hobby either TS100 or T12 will fit

author: YTSOC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2018, 02:15:27 pm
content: got the ts100 with bc2 tip and while i was reasonably impressed with it at first , when i got to test it in an identical scenario to where i used the ersa icon pico alot i was disappointed and i'm not sure what the problem is: the temperature seemed to be stable and the sw of the iron(ralim) indicated a max power usage of 50% but i needed to go to 400 C where the ersa would do the job at 340CIt was powered at 20V but since the power usage never got higher than 50% while soldering i'm going to asume it's not a power problem but maybe a temp readout problem or a bad tip construction(sensor too far from tip) Also, the tip is unnecessary thin twards the soldering part thus having lower thermal mass.I'm going to experiment further with it(sw, higher voltage) it's a nice iron for the price and i'm being unreasonable comparing it with a station that is 4-5 times more expensive

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2018, 03:24:05 pm
content: Quote from: YTSOC on June 27, 2018, 02:15:27 pmTo really compare with ersa first you need to give TS100 same voltage: 24V. That 4V will make a small difference.Make sure you use last firmware, i read on release page some time ago theres a problem with some small tip including bc, that due calibration, but i can't find anymore that note.Also make sure you calibrate VIN and temperature at TS100 menu

author: KC0PPH
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 09:26:35 pm
content: Looking at getting a new soldering station. I have a really old weller one and would like to get something that uses the Hakko tips and also am needing hot air.I would like to spend right around $100 for both an iron and hot air. I can go more or less, but as a part time hobbyist I dont need the best things on the market.Requirements in order of importance:1) Small Size2) Hakko tip compatability3) Price around $1004) Comes with Stand (prefer both sponge and brass scrunchy)

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 09:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: KC0PPH on April 30, 2019, 09:26:35 pmBAKON 950D + HAKKO 633-01 ??For hotair i'm not seeing what you can get for such price, your budget is very low plus you need tips

author: Johnny B Good
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 02:10:48 am
content: Quote from: KC0PPH on April 30, 2019, 09:26:35 pmLooking back over this topic thread, I'm not the only one to have ignored the following notice (in red!)."Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."I know that some six months on, this is unlikely to be of use to KC0PPH but I thought it might help others with a similar requirement.About 8 weeks back I put my very first order into Banggood for a KSGER T12 soldering station with the "cheap and plasticy soldering wand" with a T12-K 'starter tip' for £39.05 (circa 50 dollars?) along with a few other soldering related items which raised the total order value to just north of 76 quid (circa 100 dollars?). The other items being a clone Hakko iron stand, a Daniu wire wool tip cleaner, a pack of ten assorted clone T12 tips and a Daniu FG-100 tip thermometer. Checking the following links just after I posted this missive, I noticed that the soldering iron holder is sporting a wire clip folly in place of the useful wire clip you can see in the attached pictures of the holder I'd received from Banggood.Unless your soldering handle actually requires some form of spring clip to retain it in the holder (mine doesn't but the spring clip acts as a useful "Backstop" should the handle become slightly dislodged, hence its continued presence), the simple solution if such isn't actually required, is simply to unclip it and put it to one side.If you do need such a wire clip and the one supplied is a useless ornament, you may be able to remodel said useless ornament or else get hold of a length of similar gauge spring wire from a real model shop or a shop selling metal in preformed shapes (drawn steel rod and wire) or try your luck at a scrapyard if you can't repurpose a suitable spring from your collection of springs (everyone has a collection of 'useful bits' recovered from broken gadgets that includes an assortment of springs, right? Just me then?).https://www.banggood.com/KSGER-V2_1S-T12-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-Tips-T12-K-p-1338117.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CNhttps://www.banggood.com/Soldering-Iron-Stand-Welding-Holder-for-FX951-T12-Soldering-Station-Handle-p-1156336.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CNhttps://www.banggood.com/DANIU-1-Pcs-Heavy-Duty-Soldering-Solder-Iron-Tip-Cleaner-Steel-Wire-With-Stand-Set-NEW-p-1182609.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CNhttps://www.banggood.com/10pcs-T12-Soldering-Iron-Tips-Set-for-HAKKO-FX951-FX952-p-1191594.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CNhttps://www.banggood.com/DANIU-FG-100-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Thermometer-Temperature-Tester-0-700-p-952899.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CNNow this very first Banggood order, rather uncharacteristically I now realise in hindsight, was delivered to my doorstep just eight days after placing the order on the eve of a ten day cruise holiday. Luckily, number one son just happened to have broken up with his live in girlfriend so was "House sitting" whilst we were away and had spotted this banggood "Bag of Goodies" waiting to be taken in (or away by an opportunist thief) on returning home from work.According to Banggood's recollection of events that 1st order had been delivered on the 20 Aug despite it having been found on our doorstep two days before our return on the 18th which makes their recollection of my second order's delivery date of the 30th somewhat suspect (if in hindsight, more realistic) since, according to Banggood's records, I'd placed that lower value order just seven and a half hours after placing the first one.If you're wondering why I'm banging on about Banggood (Bad Bang more like!), it's because there's even less to like about their modus operandi than Ebay's MO and the last impression I wish to give is that Banggood are a reasonable alternative to that "Rock and a Hard Place" we call Ebay.Their only virtue being the availability of some useful electronics related items at very low prices when you're not in any particular hurry (or you're happy to let you descendants handle your Banggood's purchases post mortem). Also, I feel I should point out that you have to be careful when submitting a review so as not to frighten their editors in offering useful advice such as the fact that the KSGER oled T12 soldering station's power supply board needs some remedial work to eliminate the Chinese version of Russian Roulette by electrocution since they seem to be applying a strict policy of censorship in regard of any such honest and helpful reviews.It seems I should have been rather more devious in offering my bouquets and brickbats of honest appraisal since none of my reviews have yet appeared in any of the review lists against any of the products I have purchased and reviewed. If you have any similar quality issues (the supplied handles need to be stripped down and rebuilt to overcome the deficiencies of "Finest Chinese Assembly and Quality Control") and safety concerns, it's probably best to simply say how wonderful the item is for the money despite some minor issues mentioned here ("here" being a link to an EEVBlog article or a Youtube review for example) and just leave it at that.Anyhow, having made my feelings about Banggood's operations clear, I can return to the topic of acquiring a reasonable soldering station setup for 100 dollars or less. You may notice that the price totals on that list of goods now falls a little shy of the £76.74 plus shipping insurance less a discount which dropped the order value to just £76.20 in total. If I'd placed that order at the optimum moment in history, it could have been more like a total cost, shipped, of just 65 quid or so since at one point, a few weeks back now, they'd dropped the price of the soldering station to just below the 30 quid mark for a few days (a week perhaps) before jacking it back up again.Yet another aspect of Banggood I dislike, "Yoyo pricing" which seems totally unrelated to international currency exchange rates. That and their practice of "Switch and Bait" pricing between the Chinese, US and UK warehouses. Although the Chinese warehouse option is normally the cheapest, this isn't always true as I discovered to my temporary cost when I ordered a Mustool G600 LCD microscope from the Chinese warehouse only to discover quite by chance just a few hours later that I could have not only reduced the shipping time by using the UK option, I'd have saved almost two quid as well.I tried to persuade them to change my order to the UK option but somehow, in the 4 or 5 hours since placing that order, it had uncharacteristically completed the processing stage and reached the shipping stage thus now requiring me to request a refund upon its eventual arrival and rejection. I decided it was simpler to accept that my complacency had allowed this bait and switch trick to work in the first place and just "Suck it up".In the end, it was I who had the last laugh since it arrived with a broken screen and I simply requested a full refund of the item price and the 66p shipping insurance which they, to give them some credit, obliged me, including allowing me to dispose of the broken goods as I saw fit. I was able to order a replacement from an Ebay seller shipping from a UK warehouse, now for less than Banggood's original UK price option.Unfortunately, this too arrived (just one week after being ordered as opposed to the sixteen days it had taken with the Banggood order) with a broken screen, quite obviously due to shipping damage which only became apparentafterundoing the outer layer of packaging. I'm now negotiating a remedy with the seller who offered an automated reply to apologise for being away on a three day (mid week!?) break and a promise to deal with whatever the issue is when he returns on the 4th. I guess most of these ebay sellers are a one man band operation so I can sympathise with his situation (BTDT&GTBTS).I guess I'll see a response tomorrow or Saturday, depending on how swamped with customer queries he may be. Right now I'm feeling mildly frustrated rather than outright annoyed. I guess I must be mellowing with age. At worst, I can always get a refund from ebay at the end of the day and tackling a "Holy Grail" like search for a replacement screen for the Banggood unit is now starting to look more attractive. Close examination of photos with a ruler in front of the broken screen, which lights up to reveal the pattern of pixels but no image of any sort, suggests the panel is actually only a 480 by 260 (272) pixels panel. I haven't yet opened it up to look for part numbers but if anyone reading this thread has any suggestions for cheaply sourcing a replacement panel, I'd appreciate the help. After starting my "Holy Grail" search, I realised I'd miscalculated the vertical resolution of that microscope display module and landed up counting every single pixel in the column next to the ruler in my photograph after calculating a revised estimate of 285 pixels... Twice!I did end up with a full count of 272, confirming that the candidate display I was about to purchase off ebay would also be a perfect pixel match to the broken unit I'd removed from the Banggood microscope which had revealed a stiff block of sponge rubber which had been stuck to the back of the panel, presumably as some sort of vibration damper since the four retaining screws had held it securely in place without any such additional and stressful support.This block of rubber is not going to be refitted when I install the replacement panel since its presence had undoubtedly pre-stressed the original panel making it vulnerable to the knocks and bumps it could no longer endure during the shipping process.I haven't opened the ebay purchased unit to check since I might have to exchange it for a couriered replacement so I don't want to be accused of 'tampering with the goods' but I'm betting this second unit has succumbed for exactly the same reason as the first. In any case, now that there's a very good chance of my repairing the original Banggood unit, I'd rather request a refund than a replacement - I only need one working unit.So unless I'm very much mistaken, it looks like I'll finally land up with a working Mustool G600 LCD microscope for just the cost of a replacement TFT panel for a mere £11.09 which I'd bought from here if anyone else has one of these microscopes in need of a replacement screen:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-3-4-3-inch-480x272-TFT-LCD-Display-w-Optional-Touch-Screen-Panel-for-MP4-Car/291812799328?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649Hopefully, the bunch of smd components shown in the pictures of the replacement's flexi pcb aren't going to be an issue (the original lacks any such adornment).Sorry for that diversion and a return to the question of whether that list of kit meets the requirements specified by KC0PPH. The KSGER station is compact enough and certainly fulfills the Hakko T12/T15 compatibility requirement so you're not stuck with using the massively cheap Hakko T12 clones and fakes with their signature trademark of NTS (New Tip Syndrome) which the Hakko originals are apparently free of. The NTS effect simply obliges you to temperature cycle the brand new unused tips to eliminate their confusing effect on the KSGER's PID control algorithm. If you're running them at a modest 300 deg C, this process seems to take only 5 minutes or so. Casual use over the next few days, maybe just an hour or so's worth in total, seems to stabilise them at the full (nobody in their right mind would use) 480 deg setting.I have yet to put my soldering station to full and productive use thanks to those damaged Mustool G600 microscopes (I'd like to see what I'm doing without having to don 3.5 dioptre reading glasses and pushing my nose against the PCB I'm working on) but from what pitifully limited usage (mostly testing) that I've put it to (after applying all the required remedial work to its smpsu board and the soldering handle's wiring), it does seem to be a worthwhile upgrade over a traditional plug into the wall mains powered soldering iron such as the 25W Antex iron.Even if it offered no more soldering power than a 25W Antex, it would still be a vast improvement simply from its combination of fast warm up to 330 or 350 deg from a 150 deg setback temperature after timing out to the idle state (a bit longer if it has timed out to a sleep state when the power is cut off completely, allowing the iron to go cold).The timeout periods are user programmable and you can program the startup state to running at the set temperature, running at the setback temperature or even just cold standby which is handy for those of a nervous disposition with unreliable mains power that may cause it to go from cold standby into a set temperature or setback temperature mode after a brief interruption of supply. There are more user settable options which I won't bore you with here, you can type "KSGER T12" into Youtube's search text box easily enough to satisfy any such prurient interest I may have aroused.The soldering handle holder seems to have drawn plenty of, imo, unwarranted criticism but afaiac, mine is a perfect fit for my 'cheap plasticy' T12-9501 soldering handle with its charms of light weight, quick tip change (sans the ridiculous bulk of an unnecessary tip retaining collet) and short tip to grip distance. Although no one seems to sell this soldering handle as a ready to plug in replacement (unless you count the overpriced Hakko-centric offerings with their 4 core silicone cable and cheap 'n' nasty 8 pole din plug which you'd need to replace with a 5 core cable and a GX12-5M plug at additional cost).Perhaps I was just lucky in getting a Hakko clone soldering iron stand that had a useful version of the spring wire clip over the top of the horseshoe shaped rest rather than the fanciful follies that typically got in the way of its intended function where the obvious solution is simply to unclip it and put it to one side (just in case thereisa handle in existence where thismightprovide some benefit). In a couple of these youtube reviews where the reviewers complained bitterly about the design of these Hakko clone soldering iron stands, it was very obvious indeed that their shape had been the result of the shipping department staff's attempts at compacting them with a size 13 hobnail boot to make fit into the box.I couldn't believe the total lack of imagination in working out the obvious remedy to such packing related vandalism by the use of a bench vice and a dose of opposing vandalistic force to restore them to a semblance of the shape that Ghod had intended them to be. When you watch any review videos, trust your own instincts and draw your own conclusions rather than take what the reviewer is saying as 'gospel'. With review videos, you do at least have this option of drawing your own conclusions from the video evidence which simply isn't available in a written review so they're not all bad even where the reviewer seemingly fails to spot the bleedin' obvious for the lack of 'polishing up time'.The Daniu wire wool tip cleaner fits nicely into the damp sponge holder using a small rubber band around its base to make it a snug fit. Originally, I'd simply relied on the fact that the main spring support happened to push against the backside of the tip cleaner, neatly holding it in place. It was only weeks later that I decided to try the rubber band trick to completely eliminate the small amount of wobble this setup gives rise to. Having proved its effectiveness, I simply reset the spring to eliminate contact between it and the back of the tip cleaner. I've got a couple of photos showing my soldering iron stand setup which I'll attach to this post.I did eventually manage to discover where Banggood had been hiding the DIY form of this elusive T12-9501 handle for a mere £6.71 (but you need to purchase a length of 5 core silicone cable separately). I prefer the DIY option since it saves the hassle of dismantling a poorly assembled handle and plug before you can even start the process of rebuilding it to your own much higher standard of assembly (with an option to customise the cable length thrown in for just a little additional cost to boot!).I ordered the handle kit and a 3 metre length of cable last week so I can split the cable between the new and existing handles by way of an upgrade on the one metre cable fitted to the original handle. Cable length options were in one metre increments from one to five metres and the three metre option was only slightly more expensive than the two metre option which was a little on the long side for just one handle when 1500mm would hit the sweet spot and I'd otherwise have to waste a 500mm surplus. Incidentally, that handle kit comes supplied with both the GX12-5 male plug and female panel socket which could come in handy should I decide to build myself a spare soldering station from scratch.The selection pack of ten clone T12 tips whilst offering a far from optimum choice, does at least give me a selection to try out at less than a tenth of the price of the original Hakko tips. It was a quick 'n' dirty way to amass a small collection of tips and remove utter reliance on the one and only K tip that had been provided with the soldering station. As it turned out, that original tip seems to have developed a fault. The K tip in that pack of ten seems to be ok for the time being but I'm currently using the BC3 tip which has survived the NTS phase of its life cycle. Hopefully, it will survive considerably longer than the supplied K tip did.It's worth the modest investment in a pack of clone tips before considering the purchase of a small choice selection of genuine Hakko T12 or T15 tips. For starters you get to work with a sample of, in this case, ten rather than a sample of one when building up a statistical analysis of the reliability of the cheap clone alternatives and you get the 'security in numbers' effect allowing you to make use of the remaining tips, even if it does involve their abuse in using them in ways they've not been optimised for.So far, I've only 'burnt in' 3 of those tips and I'm leaving the remaining 7 unused until I can test with a 12vac transformer conditioning supply to precondition them so as to eliminate this NTS when first presented to the KSGER soldering station and its 24vdc heater current. I have a concern that this NTS phenomena may be galvanic interference from electrolysis products generated by residual moisture and the presence of a DC voltage during this initial drying out phase and I'd rather use an ac voltage to minimise any such potential electrolytic corrosion during this initial conditioning phase.It may not make much, if any, difference to the life of these cartridge tips but the use of a 12v mains transformer is as good a way to precondition them without tying up the soldering station with such a menial task. Obviously, if you decide never to use clone tips and stick with Hakko tips, such a transformer would be a wasted investment if you had to go out and make a special purchase. However, I suspect most of us here will already have a suitable transformer to hand in their box of salvage to try this out before coming to any conclusion about clones versus originals. I'm planning on testing this by wiring a set of three tips in series across the 36vac output of one of the ten or fifteen such 400VA transformers I've got stored in my basement (of which two, if I'm not mistaken, are currently residing alongside my office desk in the spare bedroom I'm now currently using as my electronics workshop).Anyway, I think that's everything (and then some!) covered in regard to KC0PPH's query (excluding, naturally, the question of a hot air station or gun which on its own would break his hundred dollar price limit). I've limited my response to the more realistic aspect of his query as well as my experience (I've never owned or used a hot air soldering station or gun).JBG

author: Southerner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 04:50:37 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on October 15, 2017, 02:49:52 amI could not find the ZD9815 but did get the ZD915. It is ok but definitely no Hakko. I even replaced the chamber with a Hakko chamber. There is another thread on here where someone machined the stock tip to take a Hakko replacement tip. I did not have machining tool access so I did not do that but I have a hard time keeping the tip from getting clogged despite leaving the air trigger on for a little bit after removing it from the connection to be desoldered. I can't get this gun to clean out holes around IDC headers no matter what I do. For occasional use it is ok but definitely needs improvement.Quote from: sn4k3 on October 15, 2017, 02:49:52 amI have the SE400Z and swear by it. I have several other microscopes including a couple Nikkon SMZ645 and find the Nikkon's make me claustrophobic as I can't get tools and soldering iron under there and actually being able to do anything. The focal length is just too close but then I bought the SE400Z and what a difference. I recommend the Amscope. It is nice to have a focal length of 7 or 8 inches leaving plenty of room to work.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 12:59:01 pm
content: QuoteWell, can't say I'm surprised. I wonder if even the genuine 951 can read the temp of a T12 tip, properly.Updated my personal scorecard.Suhan, no.Bakon, no.TS-100, no.KSGER ?951 ?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 02:26:43 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 12:59:01 pmHakko FX951 +/- 5C/9F (obviously on genuine tips)Pace ADS200 +/- 1.1C/2FThe JBC and Ersa (even worse) models I've checked tend to overshoot a fair bit so even if they magically settled on a few degrees accuracy it's pointless as there is a high chance you are running a hotter tip than set temp at the time you touch the next joint. You can slow them down in software but as I've mentioned previously that isn't ideal.Metcal looks on paper about the same as Hakko, from what I understand Metcal tolerances are largely governed by variances in the cartridge. I believe genuine T12 can be quite accurate on the Unisolder project station. But those that run a Unisolder to use the T12 carts have questionable logic, especially now since the ADS200 is cheaper in the US by far than messing around with the Unisolder.JBCs tout is it heats up in 2 secs but this is a low mass/power tip and I don't care what the marketing spin is, a tip cannot heat and land stably on temp in 2 seconds. JBC's logging software (which I'd have no use for) according to others is inaccurate while soldering, this makes sense the way they display set temp to the user like it is actually "the set temp".Fastest tip I've seen the Pace ADS200 do is 3-4 seconds from room temp to 350C/450F if I recall correctly. Hard to measure the speed accurately without influencing the temp.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pm
content: QuoteI'm not sure what that actually means, though. The clones I have can hold to around that, when under a consistent load. In free air, for instance, yes. Can hold to within a few degrees C. On a joint, yeah, can hold to a few degrees. This ain't no problem, at all. The problem is the sag, which can be tens of degrees more than an regular (old, obsolete) iron. In my case, with my clones, on the order of 15C sag (beyond an 888) on a modest heatsink. From the YTSOC's experience soldering something (I imagine must be larger heatsink) with TS-100, the extra sag is ~60C under that condition compared to his Ersa.QuoteFair 'nuff, but this is somewhat vague to me. Once the tip is warmed up, does that mean it overshoots after you remove the tip from a heatsink? Or does it overshoot while it's on the joint? And by how much?If the overshoot happens after you lift the joint off the heatsink:1. Even 10-20C overshoot might not be a huge a deal, IMO. But I guess I'd have to try it and see in real work.2. If this is how it overshoots, maybe it is making base-tip sag compensation.* That could be pretty excellent compared to the unintended side effect of overshoot. This overshoot would be unavoidable, and dialing it back a bit, you might find the best compromise.QuoteYeah, that's how I understand it. There's a wide range, but it's because the skinny, pointy tips have a higher set point to offset the base-tip sag.Quote. Can't be this bad, though: I had a Hakko clone you turn on and would see the temp roll up like the time on a digital stop watch down to the hundredths of a second, and stop exactly on set, 350C bing! Then about 10 seconds later, I could actually tin the tip.It was obvious to me from the first turn-on that it might be displaying a split time, but it wasn't displaying anything resembling temperature.*I happen to suspect that the ADS has got the temp readings figured out. In my best guesstimation, to get an accurate read which doesn't add sag (compared to an "obsolete technology" iron) from any cartridge tip that uses thermocouple as a single combo heater/sensor, it will require a significant amount of ADC resolution. And if it's accurate enough, the station could actually compensate for base-tip sag as well as sensor coupling sag. Because now that it has the correct temp, it also has a great idea of the actual load on the tip. (And if it uses this info to completely or largely compensate for base-tip sag, overshoot when you lift the iron would be the natural result. The station would have to keep the base of the tip higher then set to compensate for the sag from base to tip, so it isn't that the base of the tip is getting hotter when you lift it; it's the fact the base was already hotter at that point in time, and the temperature reading is what changes when the load is removed; the station recognizes the load is no longer there, and the compensation for the load is removed from the sensor data conditioning, so the displayed temp rises to show the actual temp of the base; the point of the tip will also obviously rise even after the power is cut, due to the temp of the base of the tip. This overshoot would be unavoidable, esp on a skinny pointy tip). So I suspect a very excellent station is possible with these cartridge tips, and I suspect ADS might be one of them. It's kinda frustrating then, that what the rest of the world focuses on is stuff that doesn't demonstrate this. Stuff like:QuoteQuote... is completely great. Super impressive. I'll add that the 1.1C is all the more ridiculous that any tip you put in there will hit the set temp to that degree without any calibration. That is freaking voodoo, AFAIC.But the most curious aspect to me is the sag issue, under load. I mean, having to run hotter than normal set temps and having to crank the temp up for modest changes in joints is simply sad when the iron is hardly even tapping its available power.Quote... And you can totally measure sag without needing to time anything!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 09:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pmThe regulation accuracy of the FX951 is +/- 5C/9F, you can assume it's at idle. It's a useful spec when calibrating the tips which you do at idle temp anyway. Essentially it's showing the best regulation scenario between display and tip. Recovery or how the station recovers from sag is different, depends on a lot of things and is highly mass dependent.Quote from: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pmJBC and Ersa have profiles that increase speed at the cost of regulation. If you reduce the speed they undershoot more to set temp (display vs actual tip temp) as they are regulating tighter. The graphic I've included at the bottom of this post shows it the best (note the graph only illustrates regulation curves) the speed to get to accurate idle temp is different. This is why what the display says is important, you can hide the actual stations performance in software if you wanted to.Quote from: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pmWhat I meant was if it has an aggressive heating profile (to boost performance) it will overshoot, who cares about regulation when you have a super fast station right?It's going to do this during recovering from sag as well. Which is why a stations performance is not immediately obvious. I could make the fastest station ever with the poorest regulation.Quote from: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pmThere is no such thing as "hotter than normal", because noone should be soldering at anemic temps where the ground plane has a dominant influence over soldering speed and the flow of the joint (important factors in quality). You find a temp that suits the tip and application and isn't too high for the component or your soldering efficiency and go to work. But yeah tip geometry, mass and power and technique is important.Quote from: KL27x on October 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pmI meant measure speed "accurately" without influencing the measurement, I used to do temp calibration for a job many years ago, though I'm no real expert it's more just observational knowledge. Pace on their previous series made calibration tips with a built in external thermocouple on the outside. They aren't really required though anymore but kind of handy if you need to confirm calibration as they plug in with a k connector.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 09:53:30 pm
content: QuoteBut take YSTOC example. In order to do a specific job, his Ersa can do it at 340C. The TS100 has to be turned up to 400C to do the same joint. 340C is already hotter than what I use 99.9% of the time. I am around 315C for the majority of my work.The reason I prefer to solder at a lower temp has nothing to do with fear of damaging sensitive components or PCB. I have eyes to tell me when the joint has flowed. I prefer a low set temp solely to keep the tip soldering longer without needing tinning/cleaning. It's purely practical. How it achieves this is largely immaterial to me. I don't suspect I'm in a very small minority, here, although most normal humans might not think about it exactly this way; just answer this: if you have to turn up the iron to 400C to do some job, how long do you leave it there after you're done, and how often do you have to refurbish or replace your iron tips?If the iron sags when you touch to the heatsink, it's like someone is turning down your iron every time you touch it to a joint. The bigger the heatsink, the more they turn down the set temp. This is terrible, IMO. It's better than a firestick, but it's just halfway between a firestick with a dimmer and a true temp controlled station. This is exactly how my T12 clones behave. I'm near certain this is due to sensor/heater coupling error.You graph is very telling. This graph, AFAIC, shows recovery between joints. After lifting the iron. What you do not see is the part that happens while on the joint. You might not believe it just because I say it. But if you looked at the performance while on the joint, I suspect you will find that the "high setting" overshoots and oscillates not because it is trying to "recover" a wee bit faster. This must be the byproduct of something more important. That while it is soldering, it is reducing sag from setpoint. Therefore, you can't tell if this overshoot decreases performance without looking at what happens on the heatsink/joint. Overall, it could be a massive improvement, allowing one to solder at a lower set point, overall, even factoring in the overshoot. Go back to YTSOC's example. Say your work requires you to use a setpoint of 400C when put on "low." But when on "high," you can use a set point of 340C, and things flow without any noticeable delay. Even if you had 20-30C overshoot, this is still performing way better than the "low" setting.Average Joe might assume the overshoot is related to thermal mass/inertia, and that the iron uses PID to avoid overshoot. I'm almost positive it's largely due to sensor error processing and adjustment, excerbated perhaps by a relatively low temp read frequency. IOW, the JBC must do error correction for heater/sensor coupling. And by turning up the correction factor, it is now overcorrecting, which essentially compensates for base-tip sag. And by turning it somewhere in the middle, the iron is now operating like an "old school" iron that has accurate sensor information with less overshoot and smaller oscillations in equilibrium. Base to tip sag is not corrected for. And turning the correction factor all the way down to zero would make the iron work like the shitty T12 clone with no error correction that sags when under load and limps back to set temp under no load. Tada, no overshoot. Congrats. This is the high, medium, and low on the graph, as far as I am concerned. Soldering irons never needed "overshoot" to be corrected to begin with. Let alone after miniaturizing the heater in the process of putting that itty coil right into the tip. The lack of overshoot is just a side effect of the repercussions. To heck with overshoot; fix the sag.The "recovery time" is retarded. When used within scope, this shouldn't be a thing. The iron should not need time to recover; it should get back to and maintain set temp while soldering, no matter how long you want to dwell or how quickly you go from joint to joint. Graphs and marketing like this are done by engineers who either 1. Don't know what's important to soldering, 2. Do know but the marketing team wants to keep it simple/understandable to average consumer. Recovery time should only be a thing when the joint is so demanding that the max power the iron has available isn't enough to keep it molten, and you have to "over temp" the tip between joints to store the necessary heat (this may be somewhat of a thing when you are using a tip that is way too small for the job, but it's not the normal bread and butter of how I use an iron; and even if, the recovery time of an "obsolete iron" in this case use is a few seconds, here, tops. Plenty of time while getting the next component aligned with the tweezers; with a cheap T12 clones, perhaps a bit longer).I keep on hammering this point, and I sometimes feel like I'm being trolled. But odds are most people assume I'm full of shit and living in a fantasy land where I falsely believe I might begin to understand the problem with the heater/sensor coupling. It's basic and easy stuff, but if you can't see the bigger picture you would just see BS strung together to support a narrative. You just assume the programmers figured it out. But if you understand how they would go about it, you would have a good guess what these different modes do and why the overshoot might be insignificant compared to the improvement. This isn't a programming problem. Math might be involved in the solution. But the problem is primarily physics. And if you understand physics, you can't argue it. You can correct it where it's wrong, but you can't argue it, you can't dismiss it, you can't avoid it.QuoteYes, I understand. I just meant that measuring what I care about (and may seem trollishly focused on) doesn't even require timing. It's all steady state measurement.

author: dinoboy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 11:14:26 pm
content: What are the electro-technical differences between the ksger t12 models?https://m.de.aliexpress.com/store/v3/home.html?shopId=1486111&sellerId=221955035&spm=null&pagePath=index.htm&gclid=null

author: hrbngr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 04:44:06 pm
content: Hello,I am looking to find a Hakko FG-100 that is legitimate. I am only finding the Hakko FG-100B model that is over $200 at TEquipment.Is there reputable seller that is selling the older model?also, if the fakes are the only way to go know, does anyone know of a legit seller that can supply the Fahrenheit model? Don't want the Celsius unit.