new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:05:56 pm
content: Hello folks - R&S is launching a new MSOX game changer - killer scope - likely at Embedded World - Nurnberg 2017 in GermanyR&S already placed some info on their public site:https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/gb_1/r/rtb_1/RTB_GettingStarted_en_02.pdfdatasheet:First impressions are very positive, good screen, good interface and the little features like booting up is pretty quick.The wavegen is powerful and as you'd expect from a scope with a 10 bit ADC, the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.It comes with advanced features -rather low cost- it is a no brainer ...pricing and further info:http://be.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?pageSize=25&st=RTB2002&catalogId=15001&categoryId=700000027006&langId=32&storeId=10154More info can be found here:https://www.scope-of-the-art.com/en/Yabba Dabba Doo !Flinstone55 Cobblestone RoadBedrock

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:16:59 pm
content: Dead link.I was promised one "before release" but they're cutting it a bit fine now...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:31:11 pm
content: No separate Y controlsBut plenty of buttonsLooks like the touch menus etc. are at the top of the screen, not the bottom. Not ideal (screen obscured by hand, fatigue) but maybe configurable?

author: Arjan Emm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:33:33 pm
content: Link works for me. Datasheet is 50 pages, first 33 pages are safety instructions in multiple languages. You got to be kidding me...Edit, All 50 pages are just safety regulations really.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:36:28 pm
content: "rather low cost" .. looks like ~$3000 to me.Anyone know what price range we are talking about here?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 13, 2017, 08:16:59 pmHi Mike - I know some about the scopes going out for review (even outside the US). There ended up being a mixup in shipping and it sounds like distributor stocking units were prioritized first (the blogger units should have gone first or in parallel at least). My understanding is the blogger units should be going out this week (I got my fedex number today for the units I'm sending on). I'll check on the status of yours and have them get in contact with you.In the meantime, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.-Rich

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: Arjan Emm on March 13, 2017, 08:33:33 pmLink edited or site updated.Safety info is pretty ridiculous - they could at least have deleted the irrelevant stuff about lasers, RF hazards etc.2.5gsps bandwidth, so 250? 350? 500MHz ?Ext trigger on a 4ch scope is unusual - might very occasionally be useful on the non MSO version, especially if there is trig view.And what;s with the (presumably) gold-plated BNCs...

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:47:04 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on March 13, 2017, 08:36:28 pmSignificantly lower, but I'd better not post until it's the 14th my timeI'll put up full pricing tomorrow (for the US) if folks would like.-Rich

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 13, 2017, 08:47:04 pmI'm excitedJust recently saved up money for a new scope, who knows where they'll go.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:58:31 pm
content: Quote from: Flinstone on March 13, 2017, 08:33:41 pmFor some reason I'm reminded of Bob Widlar... What would you want a scope to do in response to this gesture?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:01:02 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 13, 2017, 08:47:04 pm"Entry cost" presumably.... Looks like at least logic and wavegen are optionsInteresting the bandwidth is not printed on the front panel, so presumably some upgrade path like everyone else.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:02:32 pm
content: So a $800 entry cost for the basic stripped down scope with 50 MHz and no options? Then $1000 for upgrades? I see where this is going.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:04:15 pm
content: I don't see anything game changing there. Just another scope for snobs with gold BNCs. But I keep myself prepared.It would be more gamechanging, if those chinese manufacturers could at least once produce a DSO with usable firmware rich of features - as their hardware is mostly decent, unlike the FW, which always kills it.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 13, 2017, 08:31:11 pmThe menus at the top are shortcuts (similar to our toolbar on the RTO/RTE family). They are configurable. The main menu is on the righthand side - it pops up but then goes away to allow the waveform to use the full display. It also has the light pipes around the volt/div knob - no separate Y controls, but relatively straight forward which channel you are changing (and allowed the massive display). I'll be curious to hear your feedback after using them.-Rich

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:08:53 pm
content: Sounds interesting and looks very stylish. Looking forward to see the pricing of scope and options. Maybe entry level pricing for R&S but surely must be more than $500.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:16:38 pm
content: From Googling a bit I found this snippet, translated from Chinese (mandarin?):"The R & S®RTB2000 oscilloscope has a bandwidth of 70MHz, 100MHz, 200MHz and 300Hz, providing up to 2. 5 Gs / s sampling rate and 10 M sample storage depth. 10.1 inch display"

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:17:50 pm
content: Full datasheet:http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2236537.pdfHighlights:1.25Gs/s with 4 channels on10" 1280x800 touch screen70, 100, 200 and 300 MHz (but no 50 Ohm input mode so 300MHz is quite useless)10 bit ADC10Mpts per channel (but it seems to be shared with the digital channels so caveat emptor)Peak detect acquisition mode includedProtocol decoding and digital inputs optionalIf R&S sticks to their usual (insane) option pricing then I strongly doubt the bigger screen makes up for the price difference compared to Asian offerings.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on March 13, 2017, 09:02:32 pmI should have been more clear. This is a 2000-class scope in pricing - so it will start well below $3,000, but there will be different price points beyond that. Think pricing similar to Keysight's 2000X and Tek's DPO2000. Definitely won't be for every hobbyist, but the value it brings is very high.BTW - the best part (IMHO) of this scope hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. It was mentioned in another thread though-RichEdit: nctnico mentioned it while I was typing. It has a R&S designed 10-bit ADC. Unusual for this class of scope, especially at these sample rates.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:21:31 pm
content: Manual up already! I see 8 upgrade options..1. Mixed signal option, additional 16 logic channels2. Waveform generator and 4-bit pattern generator3. Bandwith upgrades, 100 MHz, 200 MHz, 300 MHz4. I2C triggering and decoding5. UART/RS-232/RS-422/RS-485 triggering and decoding6. CAN triggering and decoding7. LIN triggering and decoding8. History and segmented memory

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:23:21 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 13, 2017, 09:17:50 pm300MHz with passive probes works. And 50R through-terminators are hardly a big dealQuote<sigh> Such a shame that scope manufacturers continue to think that protocol decode is optional. Especially when less useful things like FFT are typically standard.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:27:04 pm
content: Now calculate the impedance of a passive probe at 300MHz. The signal gets loaded so much that you won't get a decent representation of what signal is actually there. Feedthroughs are also nothing more than a band aid because the scope's input capacitance will screw things up.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:27:23 pm
content: Just don't mention hacking OK.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:34:44 pm
content: Pricing is on Farnellhttp://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15001&langId=44&storeId=10151&st=rtb20&selectedCategoryId=%5BLjava.lang.String%3B%403ebc3ebc&pageSize=25&showResults=trueAll product listings show 16 digital channels, but knowing Farnell this may be an error, or could be only MSO products listed.70M 2ch GBP1088

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:44:28 pm
content: Talking about contests here, this new R&S scope at least wins one price: Ugliest scope of the century