How much memory do Chrome take on your computer? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 07:33:20 pm
content: 18 tabs on my Windows 10 machine with 128GB RAM and no swap file took 2.5GB RAM. How much RAM does your Chrome take, given your tab count?

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 09:23:18 pm
content: 3 out of 8 gigs total usage 1 tab windows 10 at school

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 09:49:14 pm
content: Chrome Version 80.0.3987.100 (Official Build) (64-bit), Windows 7 Professional (64-bit), 8 GB RAM.When first launched, one simple tab, under 200M among 11 processes, just eyeballing the numbers.Adding more tabs starts more processes, the size of which depends on what the content is. Tab count by itself is pretty meaningless.Probably should mention I use an adblocker as well, which may cut down a lot on the crap images.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 03:09:01 am
content: Firefox with973 tabsopen (not all loaded of course) currently using ~2.8 GiB on Windows 10.I know this doesn't answer your question directly, but thought it might be a useful additional datapoint. Firefox's process architecture makes it memory-efficient. I also useuBlock Originwhich radically cuts processor usage and probably memory as well.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 10:57:46 pm
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on February 13, 2020, 03:09:01 amHow do you find out how many tabs are open? I did a search and did not find anything particularly suitable.Never mind, I found something: Firefox using 477 tabs, 19 windows, 3.5GBUpdate: I set browser.tabs.remote.autostart to false so now it is just 2.2GB.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2020, 11:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on February 13, 2020, 10:57:46 pmWith browser.sessionstore.warnOnQuit=true, when you try to quit it prompts you to confirm that you really want to closentabs. Of course I also have it set up to restore the previous session next time it starts.Quote from: David Hess on February 13, 2020, 10:57:46 pmImpressive that you can keep track of them all!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 03:52:01 am
content: 0 bytes, because I don't use Google's spyware.IE taking around 240MB with 6 windows open.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 07:57:30 am
content: Hmm, probably, 1.6GB, three tabs, one of which is a stream and one of which is a scrolled-down Reddit page that's probably going to slow to a crawl if I scroll much further. (Reddit dynamically loads pages, so everything you've scrolled past is still in the DOM, but probably Chrome forces objects to free and garbage-collect to conserve a little memory -- and CPU use -- on such pages. So, it starts to crawl eventually..)IIRC -- Chrome conserves memory much more carefully on memory-constrained systems. It's simply the space-time tradeoff of computing. They use more RAM when it's available, to improve performance -- unloading fewer objects, using fewer swaps, etc.So you'll get different answers from everyone, and numbers that don't scale in any meaningful way at all with the number of tabs.Memory isn't a one-time resource. If you still have say 50% RAM open, and you never even use that, what does it really matter? Relax, you can usemore than allof it. You aren't losing data!And that's not even considering the nitty-gritty of what the OS is doing -- Windows itself (and I imagine *nix does this too) uses ""free"" RAM as cache. That's why you can start an application once at boot, and it takes a little while to start, but subsequent startups go faster (if the cached data hasn't been overwritten by something else, which you can force by using enough RAM inbetween).There isn't much importance on RAM usage these days, as long as things manage their use, which these examples do.I mean, ever since paging was introduced it's (figuratively, but in some cases literally)neverbeen a hard limit, only a performance hit, and a hard limit only on specific configurations, which are discouraged anyway (i.e. disabling swap). It was pretty terrifically slow in the early days of course, but it's much less painful with SSDs prevalent now. Paging is an additional time cost over handling everything in RAM directly, but if the average case is programs and data being cached in otherwise-unallocated RAM, anything that purges that RAM (forcing an HDD fetch on the next access),does precisely the same thing. It's psychology at this point: one seems like a punishment (goes slower when RAM runs out) while the other seems like a happy bonus (goes faster when more RAM is free). But they're semantically and functionally the same thing!And speaking of psychology, I mean, if you're complaining about RAM usage, but you're also using dozens,or thousandsof tabs... well... y'know? (Insert "that's none of my business Kermit" meme.)Tim

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 07:52:50 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on February 14, 2020, 07:57:30 amNone of my machines that has 32GB or more physical memory have any swap space (except the Hackintosh with 32GB RAM which can not have its swap disabled.)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 10:56:10 am
content: I just put 32GB in because chrome was complaining with 16GB. I probably had 10-15 tabs open. i tried Firefox but it is a joke as it keeps crashing.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 10:59:58 am
content: Quote from: amyk on February 14, 2020, 03:52:01 amI did a GCHQ approved security course for work and the recommended Firefox or Chrome. They did not advise against IE but they did not recommend it. What makes you think that IE "spies" on you less than Chrome?

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 01:23:30 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 15, 2020, 10:56:10 amDid you have Firefox installed on that computer before ... maybe a few years ago? Bizarre things can happen if you start using an old profile with a vastly newer version of the browser ... and uninstalling does not delete the profile, as it's user data. Simply resolved by creating a new profile.The browser shouldn't crash ... ever.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 03:37:46 pm
content: Yeah, I've been using nothing but Pale Moon/Firefox for over 10 years and a crash is very rare. Kind of surprising how rare actually, considering how much I abuse about:config

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 04:39:10 pm
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on February 15, 2020, 01:23:30 pmFirst time used on this machine. also on my little tablet computer where it had been used before and i allowed it to "clean up my stuff" as it did detect old stuff I was not great using 20% of graphics to run a radio player which is absurd and not what Chrome does. I originally stopped using it because of constant crashes. It's a joke i am afraid.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 04:26:00 am
content: How do you figure out the total memory consumption?On my Mac, I've got about 1G in the main "Google Chrome" Process, and an additional ~100 "Google Chrome Helper" processes, ranging from ~10MB to 400MB each...

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 07:21:56 am
content: Quote from: westfw on February 16, 2020, 04:26:00 amOn Windows 10, Windows Task Manager would group processes of the same program together and show the sum of all processes in the group. For UNIX, I think htop has a similar feature...?Quote from: Simon on February 15, 2020, 10:59:58 amI'd say Chromium (the browser Chrome is based on) and Firefox has the least spying as those are fully open source, allowing you can audit the code and patch out pieces you don't find necessary. As of not recommending IE, it is probably because of its terrible standards compatibility.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 08:53:25 am
content: Internet Explorer is abandonware in terms of development, even if IE11 is still technically supported (older versions aren't). Even Microsoft recommends moving away from IE except for legacy purposes.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 08:54:01 am
content: The only thing most people use IE or it's new incarnation for is to download a real browser.....Can you get chromium on windows? I had been looking but all I found was a site that I am not sure if it is legit.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 11:52:12 am
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 08:54:01 amYou can get 'Chromium' from their valid '.org' site...https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/download-chromiumHowever, in general,'Chromium' is just the 'Engine' thatnumerous browsersnow are based on.Such as 'Chrome' itself, and 'Opera' browser, 'Avast' Secure Browser etc etc. Although the variousfront-ends are mainly set up for many varied access/control/variations of security, looks & settings.I now personally choose 'Avast Secure Browser', now available for free as a stand-alone product.(Even better than Firefox for functionality, security, footprint etc.)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 01:18:20 pm
content: Anything offered for windows is claimed to be potentially unstable.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:01:13 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on February 13, 2020, 10:57:46 pmPlease also post the solution if you answer your own question.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 15, 2020, 10:59:58 amIt's hard to be worse than Chrome at this point. Sendings URLs back, checking your downloads and more. It's all in the name of your security but at this point what you are doing is tracked in worrying detail. Protonmail advises Firefox or others for this reason. Geoffrey Fowler from the Washington post looks into these things regularly and now calls Chrome "surveillance software". Google lives from tracking and profiling you so expecting anything else seems folly.https://protonmail.com/blog/best-browser-for-privacy/https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/06/21/google-chrome-has-become-surveillance-software-its-time-switch/

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:39:42 pm
content: well it depends on if they are logging that information against your account. At the end of the day they can profile me all they like and sell that to companies who will just waste their money as they won't get me to buy a thing that I do not want.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:41:17 pm
content: Ironically to read the washington post without paying i have to:You consent to the use of cookies and tracking by us and third parties to provide you with personalized adsThe very thing the article I am about to read is warning me about.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:39:42 pmThinking it's about just ads would be a rather naive take on things. Thinking you're not influenced by ads and algorithms too, but that's another discussion.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:48:44 pm
content: Oh and firefox just crashed again! seriously? is anyone using that garbage?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:56:43 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:48:44 pmYou may want to check what's going on on your end.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 02:59:03 pm
content: How? I use software I don't troubleshoot it. Or I'd just use linux.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 05:00:22 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:59:03 pmI'm saying that what you see isn't normal or common. Your issue may not be Firefox and likely isn't Firefox. You may want to check for other issues.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 05:02:58 pm
content: what can i check? You tell me. I have no idea why it won't work on this machine and has struggled on other machines.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 05:05:55 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:48:44 pmThe only times I have had Firefox crash are when memory was exhausted on a 32-bit system or when there was a hardware problem. I had to disable hyperthreading and reduce the CPU multiplier on my Intel Windows 10 test system to stop periodic crashes.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 05:27:22 pm
content: Oh right so I have to override my hardware by disabling core features of the processor and reducing the performance of the system? wooot? keep your buggy crap mozilla!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 05:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 05:02:58 pmIt honestly sounds like your machine has issues. If other machines you use have similar issues I'd look for a common denominator which isn't shared with the rest of the world. Firefox isn't exactly some idealist open source alternative you have to have patience with for the sake of your ideals. It's mainstream software used by hundreds of thousands of people with every experience level out there in everyday situations without significant issue.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 05:56:55 pm
content: I use Firefox on Linux all the time, at work and at home. I can not remember the last time it crashed.I refuse to use google's or microsoft's spy- and adware.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 06:06:54 pm
content: Updated Chrome on my phone by using the DuckDuckGo app, which basically neuters a lot of the ads and tracking. Saves a lot on data charges, seeing as it is expensive here, and there is no safe open wifi around.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 07:31:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 05:27:22 pmIt just means that your hardware is broken, not Mozilla. Applications which have greater memory and processor demands are also more likely to reveal hardware problems.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 07:44:00 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:41:17 pmTell Adblock or Chrome to disable scripts on washingtonpost.com, this unfortunately breaks their CSS for some reason but also defeats cookies (or if not, you can block them similarly) and their nag screen. You still get all the plain text, and, heh, I guess it might arguably be easier to read with default formatting.Tim

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 07:55:48 pm
content: Also if you simply search for the exact title of the headline, the first result is the page, and clicking through from a search engine often will have the site load the entire page, by design to tempt you to subscribe.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 08:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 16, 2020, 06:06:54 pmChrome itself still collects a lot of data. You may want to switch to Firefox or a more privacy friendly Chromium based browser.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 01:43:04 am
content: I was able to read the article with both cookies and JavaScript blocked.Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:41:17 pm

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 01:51:43 am
content: I've used both Pale Moon and Firefox for many years on multiple computers and on both Windows and Linux. I mostly use Pale Moon but it's highly locked down, so when I need to allow cookies or something it's easier to just switch to Firefox, which is only medium locked down. All my browsers use NoScript and uBlock Origin. I've actually had Pale Moon run non-stop for weeks a couple of times.Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 02:48:44 pm

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 07:39:29 am
content: Quote from: rdl on February 17, 2020, 01:43:04 amYes but they expected you not to whilst telling you about these companies that spy on you........ The honest answer is: shit costs money, pay for your shit or go away.....

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 09:14:48 am
content: Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2020, 08:54:01 amand a freebie or trial download manager just in case IE or Edge? doesn't want to puff puff pass a real browser = any browser

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 10:38:50 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on February 16, 2020, 05:05:55 pmSounds like a hardware problem to me.It can be a weak power converter in either the power supply or the motherboard resulting in unstable power rails; unreliable memory modules due to bad chips, bad PCB design or higher than average background radiation; or a processor that aged badly.If you have the funds, try replace the machine with an AMD Ryzen system with a reputable brand motherboard and unbuffered ECC memory. This replaces all PCB with newer and hopefully better designed ones, and ECC memory can catch the radiation-induced errors via SECDED.Quote from: Electro Detective on February 17, 2020, 09:14:48 amJust go straight to the publisher, this should prevent most of those.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 11:12:52 am
content: I am using a fairly modern machine with a Ryzen 7 and 32GB of RAM that will do 3600MHz but are running at 3200MHz. Windows will automatically vary the clocks of the processors and from what i can tell the speed of each processor is different as some cores are better than others ranging from 3.4GHz to 3.8GHz in the same 3.2GHz rated chip.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 04:11:03 pm
content: Quote from: technix on February 17, 2020, 10:38:50 amExactly. Having to lower clocks and disable hyperthreading both suggest instability which is masked by lowering the demands. It's not a normal change to make.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 04:13:52 pm
content: still crashes on my stable system

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 04:56:32 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 17, 2020, 04:13:52 pm

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 05:33:36 pm
content: Is it ASUS? Buggy hardware on some versions, and there is a possibility that simply updating the BIOS might actually fix it, or at least change what is broken.At work I know when Win10 has restarted itself, because the system halts with a spurious CPU overvoltage error, and while there probably is an upgrade for it, not my computer, I just use it, and an extra 3 key presses to start up is not an issue, plus that the actual OS is really irrelevant in most cases.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 07:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 17, 2020, 04:13:52 pmTry slow the memory speed first, something like backing down to DDR4-2400 and then tune it up step by step. Most of those "high speed" memory modules are actually factory overclocks, since the DRAM manufacturers don't actually makes chips that fast.If that does not work, you can try use unbuffered ECC memory if your motherboard allows it. Those are going to be costly and will be slower than regular RAM, but it can tell you if you are suffering from elevated levels of single-event upsets due to a noisy electrical environment or an elevated level of background radiation, and they can fix those too.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 07:44:05 pm
content: The definition of a stable system is that it and its programs don't crash.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 07:47:55 pm
content: Try this browser:https://brave.com/

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 12:44:38 am
content: Quote from: technix on February 17, 2020, 10:38:50 amOh, I am sure of that. See below.QuoteThe system is an NOS (new old stock) Asus P7P55D-E Pro with Intel i7-870 so almost 8 years old. It was given to me as parts and I finally got around to having a use for it as a test system.My main workstation is an even older Phenom II 940 with ECC memory.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 08:23:53 am
content: The only program to have issues is firefox. If several programs had issues I'd accept a machine issue. My bios is as updated as it can go but this is the last piece of Gigabyte/Aorus garbage i buy.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 08:47:07 am
content: Most Linux distro's have live cd's that can run a very thorough memory test (without installing anything).Grab one and let it it run overnight and see what happens.https://askubuntu.com/questions/343114/how-to-check-for-errors-in-ram-via-linux

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 02:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 18, 2020, 08:23:53 amI understand where you're coming from but Firefox isn't exactly flaky or obscure software either.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 03:43:00 pm
content: Why keep using the G browser that spies on you? Stop behaving like sheeps. And Firefox is no more what it used to be, Mozilla is now run by a flock of ex politicians, LGTBI activists and all sorts of SJW and antifa weirdos (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/leadership/) who care more about the COC and everything else but their own browser. Gentlemen, seriously, switch to Brave, you won't regret it:http://brave.com

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 06:31:30 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on February 18, 2020, 03:43:00 pmHm, not so sure. So they serve up adds themselves, how? by blocking the sites own and putting their own in?they claim to route your data through several servers to mask your location. Ah so we have trust them on that even though it's all free and they must get their money somehow.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 06:34:28 pm
content: This thing spookily looks like some kind of scam.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 06:40:59 pm
content: has anyone used plain old chrome?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 06:47:22 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 18, 2020, 06:40:59 pmIt's a perfectly serviceable browser. Er, sensor.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 06:48:42 pm
content: Sorry i meant chromium

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 10:16:48 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 18, 2020, 06:31:30 pmNope, no tracking, no ads, no nothing, full stop.QuoteWatt? No! No such thing. Only if you use the built-in Tor browser (command-option-N).Hey, instead of guessing, try it. It's good, very good, seriously!Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 18, 2020, 06:34:28 pmUp your game, that's a cheap shot. At least have you tried it?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 10:22:01 pm
content: I checked and Brave apparently supports both NoScript and uBlock Origin, which are mandatory for me, so I will probably give it a try when I finish with some more important projects.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 03:03:00 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 18, 2020, 06:48:42 pmI think that is the default on Raspbian. Outwards it works just like Chrome, minus the built-in Adobe-licensed PDF viewer and Flash player. (Chromium uses PDF.js instead as the built-in PDF viewer, and have no Flash player at all.) Google login and Chrome add-ins works as-is.Quote from: rdl on February 18, 2020, 10:22:01 pmFor me the mandatory ones are Nano Adblocker and EFF Privacy Badger. I think Nano Adblocker is a uBlock Origin fork? EFF Privacy Badger serves a similar purpose as NoScript when coming to blocking trackers, but allows other scripts to run so heavily script-based websites would still work properly.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 06:57:59 pm
content: It seems like the Nano Adblocker is almost a direct clone of uBlock Origin. Does it still allow blocking of individual page elements like those annoying popups on the latest youtube incarnation? The ones that pop up constantly warning that you are not signed in or the bar at the top warning that support for your browser will end soon.Privacy Badger I will have to look at, seems similar to Ghostery.What I like to do for fun is see how much stuff I can block before a site breaks. Here is Newegg, it still works and I can log in and complete purchases.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 07:16:29 pm
content: If we are so tetchy about chrome why use the internet at all? i pulled up the cookie options for the met office today and the list of third party cookies was easily 100 or more.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 07:29:52 pm
content: Primary purpose of third-party cookies is advertising related tracking. They almost never are doing anything useful for you and should be turned off. I know this is now default in Firefox, not sure about other browsers.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 08:00:52 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on February 19, 2020, 07:29:52 pmThat is what I am using EFF Privacy Badger for. It blocks trackers either entirely (blocking entire elements) or just block the cookies, however it usually leaves the rest of the page intact. (There have been a few cases when it broke some 3rd party captcha though, but it does allow manually allowing individual sources so just unblock the captcha provider and the rest would work as usual.)Quote from: rdl on February 19, 2020, 06:57:59 pmI can block elements using Nano Adblocker. Well in its about page the Nano Adblocker authors are frank that their work is based on uBlock Origin but with their own modifications, hence I calling it a fork.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 09:06:25 pm
content: Same, use Privacy Badger here and it's very innocuous for the most part, to the point where I have torememberto check it if I find a page doesn't seem to be behaving normally.Tim

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 05:02:54 am
content: Quote from: Simon on February 19, 2020, 07:16:29 pmIt's sensible to block things outside of Chrome as well. It's a battle for your data and it's mostly used to either manipulate you or decide about you. Neither tends to serve you.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 08:43:59 am
content: Well "they" don't manipulate me. I don't respond to adverts and I only buy what I need or want. I ask myself before any purchase, do i really want this?As for deciding about me, who? deciding what?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 08:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 20, 2020, 08:43:59 amYou too are influenced by ads. Most people like to think they're independent and rational folks who aren't that easily manipulated. About half of people think ads don't influence them. That's obviously as plausible as the vast majority of people thinking they're superior drivers. Advertisers actually know people don't like the feeling of being coerced to buy something. That's why advertisement is much more subtle than that. It's not see X, buy X. How to influence people is a science which has been carefully crafted and perfected over decades. There's no shame in being susceptible to it as it's years of development and science versus what makes you human. We essentially don't stand a chance. Moreover, the more information people have about us, the less of a chance we stand. "...participants thought others would be influenced by the message, but that they themselves would remain unaffected. When psychologists looked at the results, though, it was clear that participants were just as influenced as other people. This was dubbed the ‘third-person effect’." See the first three links posted below for more on advertising.It's not just advertisements though. We're constantly manipulated in many ways. Algorithms and bots decide a large part of our lives. What results you see when you do a websearch, what articles you see, what song comes up next, what ads are served to you and what videos Youtube suggests. Everything is carefully tuned to cater to your specific interests and needs to retain your attention the longest possible time. Here too does more information mean more well-crafted suggestions that serve the needs of those making the suggestions. Many people never even realize they live in a search bubble constructed by someone else for the benefit of someone else.It doesn't stop there though. Companies you never heard of know more about you than you could ever imagine. They collect data from various sources and compile these into results. They score you and they rate you and how you do has a meaningful impact on your life. These kinds of companies end up deciding whether you're considered a trustworthy customer, whether you can rent a car at what rate, whether you're a big fish with cash to burn. All you might get on your end is a "computer says no" and you'll never know that it was your data and some algorithm that made this happen to you. See the bottom two links for some more information.Big data is a very exciting field but it can be a great friend, but also your worst enemy. All these things are only possible because large datasets about you exist and many groups know a lot about you while you know nothing about hem. There's no way to win such an imbalanced situation. The best thing you can do is reducing the amount of data collected as much as possible even if it's not going to ultimately save you.https://scottfenstermaker.com/third-person-effect/https://medium.com/@dahanese/advertising-works-don-t-believe-me-then-you-are-my-favorite-demographic-ebf6b1f2541ahttps://www.mediavsreality.com/mediavsreality/2018/12/6/advertising-doesnt-work-on-mehttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/business/secret-consumer-score-access.htmlhttps://www.fastcompany.com/90310803/here-are-the-data-brokers-quietly-buying-and-selling-your-personal-information

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 08:50:16 pm
content: Yes most people have an ego, I don't, i am happy to see that i am wrong or that I need to change approach. I know i am not the best driver, but I also know I am not a dangerous and reckless one. i don't like echo chambers which is why i hardly use facebook. i recently left a group that bashes our prime minister who i hate as much as the next rational person does because i could see that like any other social media echo chamber it's just "one side" name calling "the other side". I don't go in for that crap but I'm sure someone is profiling them nicely for the next electionIf people truly want their privacy back they have to accept that they have to pay for stuff. But people don't want to pay for stuff so it's a race to the bottom that big corporate exploits. Sadly most people are too stupid to see it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 08:59:37 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 20, 2020, 08:50:16 pmI don't get the feeling you read the links that were posted very carefully. People who feel they're not susceptible are found to be actually more susceptible to influence. That's not surprising either, as people who think they are safe are much easier to catch out. Your sentence "I don't go in for that crap but I'm sure someone is profiling them nicely for the next election" almost seems to be a textbook example of the third person effect described in the first link. Apparently you have enough of an ego to tell yourself you're not fooled by any of this.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 20, 2020, 08:50:16 pmI honestly have no idea what you're trying to say there. Privacy and payment for some undefined "stuff" are related how?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:20:59 pm
content: No i have not read the links yet. You draw the wrong conclusion. Facebook is full of echo chambers where people can be easily profiled and matched to a stereotype as the sort of box they fit in is obvious by where they hang out and who else with. I don't go in for that. There was no actual debate or exchange of ideas so i left. But they are all still in there allowing themselves to be observed and profiled in what already profiles them nicely just by taking part. I like to go to multiple sources for information not just hang out with people that agree with me. I want my opinions challenged so that unless I can make a reasonable argument I have to look at what i think again.Advertising really does not work on me. I buy when there is a need. Yes, i know that advertising is meant to create a need for the product not just present it to me. Most advertising gives me the creeps. I remember a radio advert for amazons tablet product. The actor was all smugg about what a great present he got and so cheap. It had the opposite effect on me. To me it was not saying this is a cheap gift that will impress, it was saying this is how to show you care even if you don't enough to just spend the necessary on what you really think the receiver of the gift wanted. Funnily enough google ran a similar add this xmas. Most adverts try to show how much better people with think of you if you buy such and such product, meh, i don't care for impressing people. If i need something then i do some research into what is available.As for being profiled for nefarious purposes like i said, it's not free, nothing is free.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:26:05 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on February 20, 2020, 09:16:52 pmIs facebook free? well to you and me yes. So that means some benevolent millionaire created this thing for us for free when he was not a millionaire just out of the goodness of his heart? No of course not, so haw is it funded? well you tell me. Somehow "someone" is paying. Recent scandals have made clear what coorporations think of us.As i pointed out above. The Uk met office has over 100 tracker cookies from all sorts of totally unrelated companies. why? and yes their service is free.If we just paid for the services we used maybe the companies would not fund themselves off other means. If facebook said tomorrow that you could pay $5 a month to use their service and never be tracked again do you think people would pay? no they would allow themselves to be tracked instead so that they can get the service for free.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 20, 2020, 08:50:16 pmOh well, compared to Ed Miliband, Jeremy Corbin or Diane Abbot he's Albert Einstein...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:37:01 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 20, 2020, 09:20:59 pmI'm not sure what is achieved by repeating that advertising does not work on you while also ignoring a reasonably well researched post with sources that detail why and how it really does. It even addresses your arguments pretty much point for point. Advertisements don't work the way you think, which is also in the links posted. Obviously advertising is only a small part of why keeping your data to yourself is important as was also detailed in the second section of the message.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:46:10 pm
content: Yes so everything I do is logged. i could try and get a copy of it, and what am i supossed to do about it? like i said, you want free stuff accept the spying. Don't want to be spied on then boycott them and complain to legislators that even paid services will track you because it would seem it's legal,I'll tell you why advertising does not work on me: i don't have any money to waste! cool you got a product to sell, great, I don't need it and would rather do something else with what little money i have! Sure i may get the urge but i recognise it, I say to myself your about to get sucked in by that add, do you really need that, will you want it soon after buying it? but apparently you know me better than me because of 3 articles you read that all say the same thing.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 10:05:23 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 20, 2020, 09:46:10 pmYou couldn't showcase "the guy who thinks he really is the one exception" better if you tried.This essentially what half of the people say. "Sure, it works. But not on me!" Unfortunately you still seem to misunderstand how advertising works. It's in the links you never read. Even if you'd have zero expendable outcome the decisions you make about the things you do buy are influenced by ads."There is a large gap between way most people think advertising works and the way it actually works. Because people think that advertising uses rational persuasion. Joe sits at home watching TV and drinking beer with his belly hanging over his crotch. An advertisement for a new Harleys Supersuck XX vacuum cleaner appears on screen. He’s told it will pick up every last piece of dirt in his house. “Wow!” he shouts. “I have to go and buy this right now!”. He grabs his wallet and runs straight out the door. Yeah. This rarely happens.""Ever since advertising became truly popular, consumers have generally maintained that while they can understand how advertising would have an effect on others, it cannot possibly have an effect on them. They are too savvy, and too in-control of their mental faculties to be influenced by such ham-handed messaging.""As a dastardly creator of advertisements, I’m going to let you all in on a little secret that my friend’s fellow forum poster didn’t believe: advertising works, and if you don’t think it does, you’re my favorite demographic."I don't pretend to know better than you, but the research underpinning the articles posted does. It's not exactly the result of a single study either. Maybe it's a bit easier to swallow your pride when you realize this applies to all of us. This stuff is very carefully designed to do so.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 02:04:07 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 20, 2020, 10:05:23 pmWho knew that an education which includes the classics might be helpful someday. I am unashamedly copying this and presenting it here:Socrates, conceded to be the most persuasive man who ever lived, is told by his friends that either Socrates will stay overnight with them, or his friends will compel him to do so by force. Socrates asks reasonably if there is not an alternative - can he not persuade them to let him go home. The reply is that he will not be able to because his friends will not listen to him.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 07:36:14 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 20, 2020, 10:05:23 pmI'm not wasting anymore time on you! I did read your links and i still don't see the great revelation.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 09:33:50 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 20, 2020, 08:39:17 pmIt's like with dating. You can'tlogica girl into bed with you. No, you weave avibein which she associates positive emotions with you, and one thing naturally leads to another. Advertisers do just this ... but they also use negative emotions like envy (cars) and shame (cleaning products), they use triggers like music and scents, they usesocial proofin subtle ways, and they use a myriad other techniques backed by research.The only way to be immune from the subconscious effects of advertising would be to consciously catalogue every campaign we're exposed to and apply a counter factor ... and the mind just doesn't work like that.Ad-blocking is not only good to save you time, bandwidth, and privacy,it isan ethical imperativein order to combat the attention economycurrently undermining human progress.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 10:50:09 am
content: Yes well happily I don't beleive that any product will make me a better me. That is up to me to make that happen. Most assumptions about the average person do not work for me because I don't think like most people. So having a flashy car helps me pick up a girl the advert tells me. Well girl can go buy her own car, if a girl was interested it me because of the car I drive I would drop her.I don't think one particular brand over another will make any difference, I don't do brands. I shop in shops that do not sell brands as I mdo not care for them. I don't care what the things I use say about me.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 02:35:12 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 21, 2020, 10:50:09 amDo you shop at grocery stores? Do you buy energy or internet access? A computer or mobile phone? What motivated you to buy from those parties or those things and not others? Do you live somewhere? Even if you buy the bare necessities you buy countless products and services from countless companies and stores. Hell, even if you only bought straight from farmers that'd still be a choice driven by your perception of quality and value which is exactly what advertisements target. You are neither special nor the exception and we can all be glad that you're not as it means you're a functioning human being. The only discernable difference is that research indicates you're somewhat more susceptible to marketing, like all people who think they're not.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 03:07:16 pm
content: Do you shop at grocery stores? Do you buy energy or internet access? A computer or mobile phone? What motivated you to buy from those parties or those things and not others? Do you live somewhere? Even if you buy the bare necessities you buy countless products and services from countless companies and stores. Hell, even if you only bought straight from farmers that'd still be a choice driven by your perception of quality and value which is exactly what advertisements target. You are neither special nor the exception and we can all be glad that you're not as it means you're a functioning human being. The only discernable difference is that research indicates you're somewhat more susceptible to marketing, like all people who think they're not.Oh dear, i pity you.Groceries, yes I have to eat. i go where is convenient by location and price, both have nothing to do with adverts that i do not see. I don't watch TV and hardly listen to radio plagued with add's. Plus one other thing that overwhelms your poor simple brain, Buying an advertised item and being conditioned to buy it regardless of all other choices is not the same thing something clearly you can't fathom. Just because there is an advert for a product does not correlate that it was bought because of the add.My perceptions of quality and value have nothing to do with adds. Yes i know that on average certain food shops have better quality than others. But I know this from my personal experience of the products and then i choose where i want to compromise on quality or cost. If i am in a hurry i may choose the posh supermarket because it has a shorter que and i will deem it a treat as the food is also better. The cheap shop does perfectly adequate food as well but pay's it's staff like shit, so the fact they are cheaper is not a reflection on quality of product although it is a reflection on quality of service.Buying straight from farmers? meh, what they turn out may be nice but for one hell of a price and i can see how they are playing the game. I may as well shop at the more expensive supermarket where it's cheaper than the once a month farmer market. The adverts have nothing to do with it. every superwarket claims to have a close friendly relationship with it's farmers whilst actually screwing them then having fresh veg areas set up like market stalls to fool you - not me.Yes i buy energy. I buy from the ONLY company available that does the ideal tariff for me. Most other people buy on price. My gas comes from shell and they give me a discount on petrol. They are the cheapest and what they offered suited my needs, nothing to do with an advert. I think shell are cunts but they are cheap.internet services? yes i really had no choice there and use the sole monopoly on cable broadband because i have no choice. The only other choice is a broken phone line that every other man and his dog would supply me on. i hate the tax evading cunts that my ISP is and "choosing" them had nothing to do with adverts, they really are the only game it town.Oh and before you start i buy any used car that is suitable for what i want at the time when I need a car because my old one is not worth repairing.My brand recognition is not based on adds but on experience and evidence of performance.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:11:20 pm
content: Resistance is futile!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:16:13 pm
content: hehe, resistance to what? I hardly get adds. I don't watch TV or listen to add funded radio stations other than classic FM that feeds adds to the elderly and it's so funny to see just how targeted the adds are at the expected listener demographic. Online i use adblockers. No i can't do anything about a company I pay to do something for me from selling my data if the terms said they would. All i can do is protest to my legislators that this is not good enough.I am using brave browser now and yea it's blocking a ton of cookies. I won't sign up to their add scheme as they refuse to clearly explain how it works without what is clearly too much effort.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:22:57 pm
content: You do realize half of the people out there claim this is how they decide? What actual proof do you have that you actually decide this way other than your gut feeling and strong convictions? How do you know you are that exception and all these others are not?While it's endearing it's also completely unrealistic. Not even people with very exceptional medical conditions which place them well on the fringes of the human spectrum are state machines which produce a logical and fully weighed output without their human attributes coming into play. Hell, even this very discussion is a prime example of how emotion and the perception of self easily overrules overwhelming evidence.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:29:32 pm
content: To answer the original question, a lot!Not so noticeable on my 64GB RAM loaded laptop, but on my older 8GB RAM and my 16GB Desktop, it's noticeable.Tried Firefox, Chrome, Opera, not tried the new Chromium based Edge browser, but can't imagine it'll be any better than Chrome.Apparently Chrome (from V79?) has introduced tab freezing, not that I can bloody find it unless it's "automatic", all of the videos and screenshots show a option that just plain doesn't exist on my rigs.I tend to have about 10 - 15 tabs open at a time, and sometimes it just baulks and freezes for 5 minutes then springs back into life.I've lost count the amount of Chrome.exe instances are opened, seems at least 4 are open just for 1 tab.Page file / swap file isn't much of an issue it's just slow.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 05:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: grifftech on February 12, 2020, 09:23:18 pm71 mega bytes. running one tab. Windows 10 pro.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 06:14:12 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 21, 2020, 04:22:57 pmwhen i only have one internet supplier available what is there to prove? it wasn't even a choice. If you want proof then come to my house to see the broken phone cable. when my goal is to buy cheap food without driving for miles I have one choice, If i am willing to pay a bit more or for better quality i have 2 places, one withing walking distance one next to the cheap place, not exactly choice.When my car fails it's MOT and all i can afford is a cheap second hand car I don't exactly have a choice and last time I checked every back street garage with a couple of second hand cars on it's forecourt is not running national adds neither are they pushing any brand. Do you actually have the capacity to think? or do you just absorb what a couple of long winded articles tell you and decide that they are right and that you are controlled.Sure i make choices but adverts have zero weight. Yes i am on the autistic spectrum. Most adverts are targeted at neuro typical peoples desperation to be accepted in society. The advert shows them happy people having the lifestyle they crave and being treated the way they want to be treated whilst being involved in the brand. You will find that as much as a company pushes it's traditional values it will also push it's cutting edge vision so that it appeals to both of the main camps. i don't care that my cookies (biscuits) were made by poor humble farmers or by cutting edge technology. I will try them, if they are nice I'll buy wore. If they are not nice I'll not buy more.Wine, there is not much wine that I like. The price is irrelevant and the chemicals they put in whilst telling you how traditional and honestly made it is by humble farmers mean that to me it's just a headache whilst i can drink the local plonk from where i used to live in italy without getting a migraine and it tastes good even though every year it's different as the whole wine making companies takes everyones grapes whatever they are and produces 3 varieties, red and white and then rose by mixing them. No brand labes and for me it's better than a £20 bottle.But yes I am sure you scram are personally doomed because you seem to not have the capacity to think for yourself.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 06:17:54 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 21, 2020, 04:16:13 pmCONGRATULATIONSPlease, tell everybody else how good it is! Please!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 09:46:04 pm
content: Brave does not offer a full installer package on their website afaik, why is that?and three legit third party portable versions I tried, the startup window won't even stay open to try it out.That's worse than Opera, a once cool browser which has been useless the last few years. I can't believe how bad it is nowI am assuming these no go browsers are geared towards Windows 10 or update filled Win7, 8, 8.1 ?At least IE and Edge start up and sort of work with some websitesso I can download a real browser

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 11:01:36 pm
content: Pretty much every browser will require you to download a small program which in turn will go fetch the full install. I guess this way they can ensure you start off with the latest version. IE and Edge come bundled with Windows and don't need to do this.One thing I didn't like about Brave right off was that it asked zero questions, just bang zoom, installation complete. Then I noticed that it hijacked pdf files and set itself up as the default opener. I'm guessing that was because there wasn't a default already, but still bad form to do so without asking. I uninstalled it right away and will try a portable version next.