Mixed signal oscilloscope for hobby purposes, 4k budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 12:46:36 pm
content: Hello,I would like to treat myself at the end of 2013 with a scope which should have digital and analog inputs. I am a ham radio guy and plan to do some HF small home brew projects along with digital, LED, power supplies, the common DIY for a hobby. Ideally it should dome with signal generator, could be useful for the RF projects. Unless I can buy a stand alone one at a good price.I am not sure what to buy, out there are some used Tektronix MSO3014, Agilent 6012A and the obvious brand new Rigol.I work with computers, 'must' have web interface or the ability to see the output or/and control it from a PC.Any advice?Thanks and Happy New Year!Edit: Wrong year

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 01:02:40 pm
content: To treat yourself at the end of 2012 you need a time machine not an oscilloscope!

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 01:22:02 pm
content: Need to know how much bandwidth you require, and what currency that '4k' is in.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 01:37:17 pm
content: $4kRF projects, probably in the 1.8-14Mhz or so range.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 01:53:45 pm
content: I'd strongly recommend looking at used Agilent 6000/7000 seris - usually some in Agilent's Ebay store.Ethernet & web interface as standard.Trial licenses last forever by just winding the clock back, but note that protocol decoders like I2C,UART etc. are only available on models with 4 analogue channels.

author: Isamun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 02:13:54 pm
content: I got an MSOX3404A from Agilent's used ebay store for $4200. I was very lucky in that I got a demo unit with all the options installed. I would contact Oliver over at their used store and ask if he has anything coming up that suits your needs. (they can reserve upcoming items for you)In any case, if you get a base model, you can hack licenses to your hearts content! Even bandwidth!

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 02:50:05 pm
content: Thanks guys, so at this price tag would you definitely recommend Agilent over the other brand?

author: plesa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 03:13:07 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on December 31, 2013, 02:50:05 pmFor sure. Check this threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/advise-on-choosing-the-correct-agilent-scope/msg339462/#msg339462Agilent used e.ghttp://www.ebay.com/itm/181274045205Someone on forum tried to sell his Agilent DSOX2k series for 2k USD.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 03:23:47 pm
content: The DSOX2k is sold. I would advise a 4 channel Agilent 3014, and simply hack it for the MSO and bandwidth and serial decodes. Otherwise, if you are unwilling to hack, look at the MSOX2k or Rigol MSO 4k series which has that sexy 140Mpts memory, but for this budget, you can't go wrong with Agilent.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 03:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on December 31, 2013, 03:23:47 pmEspecially at the moment, where you can getup to an 40% discount on certain new Agilent scopes.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 03:55:35 pm
content: I think I'll just buy one then, I have also got the Agilent 34461A and I am pleased with it.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 05:49:18 pm
content: Quote from: Frost on December 31, 2013, 03:49:46 pmI might try and free up some budget myself then... where is the link to the promotion?

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 09:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on December 31, 2013, 05:49:18 pmhttps://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2384797&id=2384797Buy the bandwidth you want and pay the lower bandwidth price. I got my new DSOX3204 for $3200.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 09:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on December 31, 2013, 05:49:18 pmIt's the normal Agilent promotion at the moment.If you buy a DSOX3034A or the MSOX3034A for example,you have to pay only the price of the DSOX3024A or MSOX3024AWith this combination the discount is around 40 percent.Here is the link to the flyer, the promotion code is 5.955http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/redirector.jspx?action=obs&nid=-33573.0.00&lc=eng&cc=US&ckey=2381165&pubno=5991-2967EN&ltype=&ctype=AGILENT_EDITORIAL

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 03:55:26 pm
content: Prices are not that good in the UK, can't get any new 3000X Agilent within my $4k budget.I have read in here that Tektronix uses old CPU based architecture, does that apply to their 3000 series? I can get an used, like-new condition Tektronix MSO3014 for $3k, would that be a bad choice over Agilent 2000X series product? Can't even look at 3000X series, Agilent DSOX3014 sells in the UK for a shy over $5k price mark.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:01:24 pm
content: While the Tek DPO/MSO3k looks decent, you'll pay an arm and a leg for the application modules unless you decide to reverse engineer them according to another thread on this forum. With the Agilent, you can just hack the codes.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:19:06 pm
content: This is a nice onehttp://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/111248193489?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

author: plesa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:31:49 pm
content: Agilent DSO6034A Digital Oscilloscope for 4480USDhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-DSO6034A-Digital-Oscilloscope-/301009597156?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item461591f2e4Agilent DSO6034A 4Ch, 300MHz, 2GSa/sec, 500Kpts/Ch Digital Storage Oscilloscopehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-DSO6034A-4Ch-300MHz-2GSa-sec-500Kpts-Ch-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/270953777462?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f161a8936and my favouriteAgilent DSOX 3034A - 350MHz 4GS/s, 4 ch, New in Box ***Factory Warranty*** for 4090 USDhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-DSOX-3034A-350MHz-4GS-s-4-ch-New-in-Box-Factory-Warranty-/230914789255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c3980f87

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:45:31 pm
content: They do not ship to the UK. Not to mention I need them as gift, otherwise the customs fees are 3 digits number

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:46:38 pm
content: Quote from: eurofox on January 02, 2014, 04:19:06 pmThat looks good but quite old?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:46:50 pm
content: Rigol DS4024http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/132/I'like tektronix scopes (that's all I have) but spending that much money on an obsolete piece of equipment with parts impossible to replace?As most of the people suggested, go for new Rigol or Agilent (2000 series), buy used only from the Agilent store on ebay. Mike's suggestion is also good but Mike can probably repair anything on earth and I'm sure he has got burned once of twice purchasing used equipment.There are other good brands out there but the support is a little bit more questionable.Call dealers and ask for a quote, they might have demo units with full warranty that can go for up to 20% off.Be patient, don't rush the decision, it is a lot of money. Good luck

author: plesa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:52:08 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 02, 2014, 04:46:38 pmIt is quite old, and will not invest into such a old scope.Quote from: cio74 on January 02, 2014, 04:45:31 pmFor shipping use the shipitto.com or similar servce. This will give you change to fill the custom declaration by yourself.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 05:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: plesa on January 02, 2014, 04:52:08 pm

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:07:43 am
content: Any opinion on the Agilent MSO6000 series, am I buying old technology? It's the non X model, I see they have been released back in 2005.Thanks.

author: plesa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 03:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 09:07:43 amThe 6k series is pretty good scope, I have it for while prior DSO3X. I has better knobs and screen:-)I will pick up the DSOX3K with warranty and check the another thread for the hack of the scope (all including bandwidth upgrade 350 MHz to 500MHz and MSOX version upgrade).You just needs to buy ribbon cable and grabbers.The CAN,RS232,I2C/SPI decoding is also available for "free" (trial) on DSO6k series as Mike mentioned earlier.But the MSO (digital channels) upgrade is pretty expensive.The probes between DSO3X snd DSO6k seres are fully compatible, but stay away from probes for Infiniium series, they are using different supply voltage levels and are not supported.Only if they are relativelly cheap (e.g. 1153A or DSOX3 compatible equivalent 1141A probe - require standalone power supply)But are relativelly cheap available on ebay ( do not buy them for repair it contains front end ASIC)I hope this will help.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 04:03:29 pm
content: Oscilloscopes are not some new consumer crap. They are not released every year in a new iteration. A 10 year old scope is perfectly fine provided it has the specs and features you need.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 04:06:19 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on January 03, 2014, 04:03:29 pm+1

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 06:20:06 pm
content: That's good to know, been reading around how crap are Tek's compared to the mighty Agilent because are old technology which runs windows and not fast chips. Or maybe some folks are too biased.A Tek MSO3014 is any good, I can get one at a very good price.Thanks.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 06:28:50 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 06:20:06 pmAgilent runs windows as well. I personally do not hate windows as much as others, but Tek is so slow because their GUI is on a Java VM and all that shit.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 06:45:34 pm
content: Tek runs Java VM on their scope? That could be slow and irresponsive. Seems like the good deal for that MSO3014 goes away.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 06:45:34 pmOh god. Don't get me started on the slow UI of Tek scopes. It is an absolute pain in the ass.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on December 31, 2013, 03:55:35 pmSorry to appear a bit negative, but a $4k MSO and a 34461A are not tools I would have on a shopping list for setting up a bench for basic RF design. Especially for hobby ham stuff below 30MHzFor the cost of the MSO alone you could set up a pretty decent/complete RF workstation if you are prepared to buy lab grade gear from 15-25years ago. eg for that $4k you could easily end up with a workstation with various lab grade RF test gear that once graced the very finest RF labs in the world.Alternatively, you could buy a chinese built MSO for $4k that will often be matched/outclassed for RF work by a 35-40 year old Tek 465 analogue scope that you can buy on ebay for $80.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 08:17:20 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 06:45:34 pmThe TEK 3000 series does not run windows, and the interface is quite snappy. It's a real fine scope.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:13:46 pm
content: Quote from: w2aew on January 03, 2014, 08:17:20 pmOh. Huh. never used the 3000 series before. Used their TDS7000 series before. It was horrendous.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on January 03, 2014, 07:52:05 pmYou are not negative at all you are actually right; just can't see myself spending that much money on 10 years old equipment, regardless how good it is

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: w2aew on January 03, 2014, 08:17:20 pmI'll do a bit of research on this one, I can get a good deal, it has 16 digital, 4 analog, LAN, video out; pretty much anything I want.A close call would be the Agilent DSOX2014A but it's 2000X series, no digital inputs and every option costs a small fortune? Please correct me if I am wrong.Those are all within my budget, took me a bit to build the listBrand Model Price Channels BW Refresh LCD Resolution Bandwidth Sample MemoryRigol 2072A 750 2 20 Mhz 50000 8 800 x 480 70 Mhz 2 GS 14 Mpts USB Host LAN 0.5v / divRigol 2102A 1000 2 20 Mhz 50000 8 800 x 480 200 Mhz 2 GS 14 Mpts USB Host LAN 0.5v / divRigol 2022A 1400 2 100 Mhz 50000 8 800 x 480 200 Mhz 2 GS 14 Mpts USB Host LAN 0.5v / divRigol 4014 2000 4 20 Mhz 110000 9 800 x 480 100 Mhz 4 GS 140 Mpts USB Host LAN VGA Intf 2mv /divRigol 4024 2400 4 20/100 Mhz 110000 9 800 x 480 200 Mhz 4 GS 140 Mpts USB Host LAN VGA Intf 2mv /divTektronix MSO 3014 1700 4 + 16 100 Mhz 50000 9 800 x 480 100 Mhz 2.5 GS 5 Mpts USB Host LAN VGA IntfAgilent DSOX 2012A 1000 2 50000 8.5 800 x 480 100 Mhz 2 GS 0.1 Mpts USB HostAgilent DSOX 2014A 1600 4Agilent MSOX 2012A 1600 2 + 16 50000 8.5 800 x 480 100 Mhz 2 GS 0.1 Mpts USB HostAgilent DSOX 3032A 2600 2 1000000 8.5 800 x 480 350 Mhz 4 GS 2 Mpts USB Host

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:39:01 pm
content: Why a MSO? Why not an independent Logic Analyzer + A DSO.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:41:21 pm
content: No particular reason, think it could be nice to have them all together, no need to power up a PC to check some digital?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:47:00 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 09:41:21 pmA standalone LA, like a Tektronix TLA. Not a PC One. And cross trigger with your scope.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-HP-16702B-Logic-Analysis-System-w-1-Agilent-16717A-Module-/151155613543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2331939f67and a scope like thishttp://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-54825A-500MHz-2GSa-s-oscilloscope-w-opt-015-and-100-/221339781612?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3388e109eccan cross trigger so you get a very powerful scope and a fantastic LA.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:20:40 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 09:36:37 pmminor correction - the Tek MSO3014 is 100MHz on the analog channels, and has 16 digital inputs, not 8.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:22:23 pm
content: I have changed it, thanks.Also have found that they run Linux as OShttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-running-windoze/msg210546/#msg210546

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:34:29 pm
content: And in here owners of 2000 and 4000 series complaining about user interface being slow and not responsivehttps://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.electronics.design/qGnsKKjLLSwI may end up getting a new DSOX2000 Agilent in the end.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:42:13 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 03, 2014, 10:34:29 pmIf an Agilent DSOX, why not the DSOX3014A?http://www.tequipment.net/AgilentDSOX3014A.asp?v=7233

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:47:45 pm
content: Quote from: Frost on January 03, 2014, 10:42:13 pmIt's too expensive in Turkey.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:57:39 pm
content: Yeah, and very cheap here in the UKAgilent DSOX3014A £3136Agilent DSOX2014A £1550Got prices mixed up, I was right first time, it's double the price. £2150 for the MSOX2014

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:03:02 pm
content: Shit. You are in the UK. I forgot. You weren't the Turkish person I was dealing with earlier.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:12:06 pm
content: Excellent price on the Agilent MSOX2024A here (limited offer)http://uk.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/msox2024a-certiprime-refurbished/oscilloscope-4-8-channel-200-mhz/dp/2290620

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:13:51 pm
content: Thanks, that's exactly where I am lookingIt seems to be a good time to get one.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:35:11 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on January 03, 2014, 10:47:45 pmAnything listed on the Turkish version of Farnell's website is sold only with 18% VAT added, no customs duty, no shipping charges (above 50 €):http://tr.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/msox2024a-certiprime-refurbished/oscilloscope-4-8-channel-200-mhz/dp/2290620Their distributors are these guyshttp://www.brit.com.tr/But I have never bought from them.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 07:46:04 pm
content: Ended up with a 4 channels Agilent DSO7000 series for $3k, I hope I made a wise choice...

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 08:17:54 pm
content: Quite a large machine. It probably has no pushable knobs, but who cares...

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 09:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 04, 2014, 07:46:04 pmThe 7000 series are excellent scopes; very responsive and they have a huge screen. They also boot up in a hurry. I don't think you'll be disappointed with it at all.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:21:56 am
content: Make sure it comes with the probes, they can cost as much as the scope.

author: kebogen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 09:18:02 am
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 04, 2014, 07:46:04 pmI think you made a right choice, Agilent DSO7000 series is worth the money.These days i want to get a DSO or MSO, but Agilent DSO7000 or 3000X is too expensive for me...

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 11:39:59 am
content: New 4 channels DSOX3000 series was more expensive, couldn't see major benefits over am used 4 channels 7000 series.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: cio74 on January 05, 2014, 11:39:59 amAnd the 7000 has lots of free leverlasting trial licenses - I think last time I looked there was still a trial of MSO

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 09:40:07 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 05, 2014, 12:20:10 pmWhich URL to check please, I can't find it?Found it.