Getting "C E" certified - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 11:25:10 am
content: I'm designing a unit at work and we need to have "C E" approval. How do we get this ? I seem to remember that it is a self certification (or does that just apply to chinese one hung low multimters ?). If it is a self certified thing where do I get the guidelines to go by ? (electrical and mechanical)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 11:48:24 am
content: I leave the references to the proper EN documents to others. CE is self certification so its a matter of putting a CE symbol on the casing if you are producing inside the EU. Basically you need to adhere to the rules for electric safety (grounding and creepage distances) and RF interference.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 11:50:10 am
content: Wikipedia has a long article on it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 01:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 10, 2013, 11:48:24 amThe CE is required for certain product types/families, even if it's imported from China (China Export :-). One can simply stick a CE label on the box but if the products doesn't conform to the CE standards and someone finds out he'll get a lot of trouble. The bullet-proof solution is to let a certified lab perform the CE testing. And there's a lot of paperwork also.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 03:15:25 pm
content: Go to the top.The EU has a website giving all the details.http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/european-standards/harmonised-standards/index_en.After reading them you will feel like you have been doing thisfor a week.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 03:17:54 pm
content: I was going to make a joke about simply slapping a sticker on but it looks like that is, indeed, no joke.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 03:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 10, 2013, 01:24:34 pmBear in mind that reply comes from Germany, where they proactively go out and buy & test products. Elsewhere it's more complaint-driven (e.g. local Council Trading Standards in the UK) , so unless you are crapping all over licensed radio bands, catching fire or electrocuting people, for small volumes nobody is likely to ever know or care what steps you actually took before applying a CE mark. Except maybe your competitors.And BTW it's not only electrical safety & EMC - for some product types things like machinery safety, acoustic noise, toy safety etc. can come into play.The hard part is often not so much applying a standard, but deciding what standards are applicable to your product, especially if it;s something unusual/specialist, or spans multiple product categories. Be wary of advice from test houses, as they have a vested interest in selling you test time.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 03:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on June 10, 2013, 03:17:54 pmYes likewise until i looked. I always thought it was slap a label on it but apparently it can get complicated. Our customer has asked it be CE marked so we will have to go through it all properly and being used in a public space (Train) even 10 a month in production have a lot of "audience". Also being used in a train means that most likely most of the electrical, emc and mechanical testing we have to have it submitted to for rail standards will probably more than cover the CE certification but we need to cross reference.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 04:04:32 pm
content: You may find that stuff for rail use may be ousitde the scope of some standards that come under CE marking as industry standards exist. Also CE mark means you 'meet the requirements', and meeting a standard is one way of showing you do so.If you are already testing to rail-specific standards in an area (e.g. EMC) this is probably sufficient withiout needing to even look at the more generic standards in that area.

author: Mki
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 04:55:15 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 10, 2013, 04:04:32 pmFirst say hello to the EN50155 and then to some national rules. And if there is safety involved, different safety integrity levels guarantee to cause brain aneurysm.But good thing is that in some cases you can (almost) forget emc-levels.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 05:03:45 pm
content: we have been given specific specs to meet for rail. Rail specs often exceed military specs. Really I don't know why we need CE, I think our customer just thinks we need it.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 05:41:11 pm
content: Is CE really required for what could be construed to be industrial sub assemblies.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 05:54:44 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on June 10, 2013, 05:41:11 pmI've often seen a requirement to carry out testing of sub-assemblies to CE standards, especially for conducted noise and immunity.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 06:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on June 10, 2013, 05:41:11 pmA sub assembly could need a CE mark. The classic mistake that some assemblers make is that they think CE + CE = CE.However, there could easily be some safety standard that it would have to comply with. EMC compliance would have to be repeated for the full assembly - however if the sub assembly fails EMC tests (even when tested stand alone) then your customer could be within their rights to throw the whole problem only your equipment.YoursNeil

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 06:10:46 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on June 10, 2013, 11:25:10 amQuote from: Simon on June 10, 2013, 05:03:45 pminteresting!

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 06:52:38 pm
content: Generally a sub-assembly isn't required to bear a CE mark in its own right, but since the finished product in which it'll be used will have to pass CE certification testing, a sub-assembly that prevents the finished product from passing will be rejected by the customer on commercial grounds.It's an argument I've had with power supply manufacturers on several occasions. A PSU gets its CE mark and does indeed pass conducted emissions testing when powering a dummy load resistor. However, it fails when powering something that doesn't draw full power, or which produces even a fairly modest amount of noise of its own.I try to get the point across that a PSU can't just scrape under the limit line under one set of conditions - it has to passwith marginunderallconditions, or it's unusable. The first thing I do with any potential new mains supply, after checking that it's basically functional, is take it down the EMC lab and have a sniff. If it's too noisy then it goes in the bin - no excuses.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 08:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on June 10, 2013, 05:41:11 pmThis will be a service user item so we have to be able to say that it will not blow up in the face of a rail passenger or interfere with their sacred mobile phones etc.

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 09:37:29 pm
content: well ?Does it?Blow up that is.Its funny that from an engineer is expected to know everything of CE marking.Why does your customer not know what and why it wants a CE marking.What norms and levels of susceptibility and radiation in needs to have

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 06:44:12 am
content: Quote from: qno on June 10, 2013, 09:37:29 pmAt the least it needs to meet rail standards which are very stringent else it cannot be put in a train. I think the CE marking will end up being a formality but we all know that formalities mean lots of silly paperwork. It could be that the rail industry want CE marking

author: sca
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 08:10:10 am
content: In the UK, York EMC seem to be the one of the go-to companies for Rail related stuff. May be worth a look.sca

author: Dreso12
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 05:58:31 pm
content: Hi,You can self certify your products but you can get into trouble if after a problem you can not demonstrate that you have made the tests for the different directives.Among others the most used for electronics would be electromagnetic compatibility and if you are working with dangerous voltages electrical safety. There are many other directives but these are the two most used, and the tests involved required expensive laboratories.