Switching to PIC: PCIkit3 wtf? So much errors - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 10:24:45 am
content: Ok guys. Until now I was a Atmel guy. And I still am. But I wanted to try out the pic family.So I bought on Ebay a used PICkit3 with the Low Pin Count Demo Board. Yes I have watched the video EEVblog #841.I think, that I am to much petted with the Atmel Studio and the Atmel programmers. Just download the IDE, start a project with your microcontroller, write your code and bang upload it to your device.Now I have very much trouble with the PICkit3. I now spend one full day and it is still not working. Maybe that thing is destroyed or something? Here are my errors:I'm using:MPLAB X IDE v3.65PICKIT 3Low Pin Count Demo BoardPIC16F1829PIC18F14K22I don't know where to start. From the beginnig. I just want to create a small programm and flash it!I connected the pickit3 to the PC and connected the the Demo Board to the pickit. I put the PIC16F1829 to the Demo Batrd. Using MPLAB IPE i choosed powering by the pickit and YES. There seems to be a programm already on it. I got a light show. But tells me it got no device ID. I even can erase it when there is no mikrocontroller in the Demo Board. WTF?Sometimes i get the error, that it draws to much current? But WHY does it seems to run? I got a F** light show. The pickit3 has no problem driving the mikrocontroller.Okay. I got external 5V and put the mikrocontroller on a breadboard. I select powered external. NO DEVICE ID. I cann erase an empty breadboard. Again WTF? When i press programming and i have NO hex file loaded it says success? ....Using a valid hex file.. PIEP error.I don't understand it. What is happening?Ok there is another tool, the standalone. By the way.. how much tools are out there? Using atmel I just had the Atmel Studio. Thats everything I needed....I make it short: Pickit3 v.3.something TOOLS -> Download PICkit operating system: PK3OSV020005.hexSuccess. Its working? NO! It does not matter which device I choose. NO DEVICE DETECTED. But as beforce erase etc. works when i choose -Select part-. W...I just wanted to try out the pic family. I hope my PICkit3 is comatose or something and a new one will work fine - its a used one. But.. how can that be true?Can anyone help me?I'm frustrated.Thank you.PS: Breadboard connetion:Of couse 5V, and Ground. The rest:Pin 4 to PICKIT1 (Arrow)PIN 19 to PICKIT 4PIN 18 to PICKIT 5And of course VDD/VSS

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 10:46:42 am
content: Welcome to the world of PICTry without external power first...PK PIC1 42 13 204 195 186 NCThen when you first plug the PK into your PC make sure you are holding down the button before you power it via the PC; this invalidates the PK firmware.You need to go to advanced settings and select power from PICKit and give it at least 3v3 possibly a bit more if it is a 5V device (My PC seems to sense target voltage a bit high)You are very close.Good luckPSI'm not familiar with that board but it looks like you need JP5 to be in place to ensure the pull-up on /MCLR. Also the numbering of the P1 connector is a bit confusing, looks a bit back to front to me but I don't have the board so cannot check.

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 10:59:22 am
content: BINGO! Yes another error. It won't stop.I did exactly what you said. Unknown firmware type??? Using external power I get again the error No Device ID.2017-07-02 12:57:13 +0200 - Completed loading IPE.*****************************************************Connecting to MPLAB PICkit 3...Currently loaded firmware on PICkit 3Firmware Suite Version.....01.49.09Firmware type..............Unknown Firmware TypeNow Downloading new Firmware for target device: PIC18F14K22Downloading RS...RS download completeProgramming download...Downloading AP...AP download completeProgramming download...Currently loaded firmware on PICkit 3Firmware Suite Version.....01.49.09Firmware type..............PIC18FPICkit 3 is trying to supply 3,300000 volts from the USB port, but the target VDD is measured to be 3,000000 volts. This could be due to the USB port power capabilities or the target circuitry affecting the measured VDD.The target circuit may require more power than the debug tool can provide. An external power supply might be necessary.Connection Failed.

author: fourtytwo42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:30:27 am
content: Number 1 cause of this failure is no decoupling on target pic!100nF directly across pic power pins under board

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:52:17 am
content: Microchip ships a demo board with insufficient decoupling?

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 12:02:13 pm
content: There is of course a decoupling.EDIT: I had a look at the wires ICSPDAT/CLK with my scope. Nothing, emptyness, silence. Device not foundBut it poweres the PIC and its working! Look at the picture.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 01:44:33 pm
content: First of all, PICkit3 can provide very small current - 20-30 mA (the genuine one, who knows what the clone might do). If you need more, you need to power it externally. If there's a lot of stuff on the board, don't try to power everything with PICkit3.If it cannot get the device id, check if you selected the correct chip in software, then check your connections - bad contact, bad soldering etc. It's either that, or your PICkit3 may be defunct.Most of the clones work, but some don't. In this case, you can try to select LVP (low voltage programming) and see if that works. If PICkit3 has problem with high voltage generation, this might cure it.

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:00:45 pm
content: As you can see, I have no wires. Just the PICKit3 > Demo Board. The LEDs on the demo board are running, so I think it can take the current. There is only one LED active per time.And again of course I have the right Chip selected.I'm pretty sure, its an original (i got it with papers and everything). Maybe it was replaced by a china clone? It gets pretty hot.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:21:20 pm
content: Yes. That appears to be original. Microchip will replace it for free if it doesn't work. You can contact them with this.If LEDs are blinking, it means the power is applied, but it doesn't say anything about MCLR, ICSPCLK and ICSPDAT connections.Take the PICkit3 out of the board, try programming. It'll fail, of course, but you can watch what happens on MCLR, ICSPCLK and ICSPDAT. Can you see anything?

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:41:37 pm
content: But it says it can supply the current, does it?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:57:29 pm
content: Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 02:00:45 pmNeither the PICkit 3 nor the PIC on the target should be getting hot.Disconnect it from the target board and use the PICkit 3 standalone software v3.10 to test it.In the main screen, you can check the Vdd circuit. Start with Vdd off. If you apply an external voltage in the range 2.0V to 5.0V, it should report the voltage and update whenever you click the 'On' checkbox, warning you there is external target power. If you disconnect the external supply from Vdd, you should be able to set a voltage between 2.0V and 5.0V in the combo box to the right, and toggle it on/off using the 'On' checkbox. It should be able to supply up to 4.7V at up to 30mA - so if you select 5.0V, should certainly be able to output at least 4.7V into a 220R resistor between Vdd and Vss. If you get less than 4.7V, check your USB port supply voltage, preferably at the PICkit 3 end of the cable with the PICkit 3 connected.!To test the PICkit 3's ICSP port I/O pins, use the app's Logic tool in I/O mode not logic analyser mode. Turn on Vdd and set it to 3.3V before entering the logic tool. You should be able to read the level on PGD, PGC and LVP and output logic '1' (current target Vdd) or logic '0' on those pins + /MCLR.You cant test the Vpp supply generator that way - with no PIC connected, in the main standalone app screen, set Vdd to 5.0V and 'On', manually select the baseline part PIC16F57 and click . The /MCLR/Vpp pin should briefly pulse to between 12.5V and 13.5V. It should stay high long enough for a good quality DMM to read it.If you find any problems report back here.If you want to know if its genuine, post good quality photos of the top and bottom of your PICkit 3, and after popping it open with a spudger in the case seam, photos of both sides of the PCB.Pickit 3s are fairly easy to repair if you are any good at SMD rework, and, depending on your country, for genuine units Microchip tend to provide generous hardware support even if you don't have the original receipt and cant give the original date of purchase, so, as long as its genuine and not seriously butchered, if its defective, its worth raising a support ticket and asking what it will cost to repair/replace (Microchip used to have an unofficial*lifetime guarantee free advance replacement policy, but recently there have been some reports of shipping charges for replacement units). However, depending on what you paid for it and quoted shipping costs you may prefer DIY repair or replacement.* Their lifetime guarantee was officially only on their 'pro' grate tools: ICD 2,3 and better, not their entry level PICkit range.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:05:13 pm
content: Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 02:41:37 pmNot necessarily. It could be supplying just enough to run the target MCU even if the voltage is sagging (e.g. your 18F14k22 runs from 2.3V already) but it may not be enough for programming.If in doubt, disable powering through PICkit and add external supply. However, I would first do the diagnostics described above by Ian.M - if anything is getting hot, it is definitely not normal.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:24:10 pm
content: Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 02:41:37 pmIn one of your posts above, it shows the error message saying that it can't.At any rate, I would apply external power. It's much more reliable.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:25:56 pm
content: Now Downloading new Firmware for target device: PIC18F14K22What exactly is your actual device in the demo board?I thought you said PIC16F1829??

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:47:07 pm
content: You should try using MPLAB IPEYou MUST reset the firmware in the PicKit to use this... hold down the button when powering up the PicKit to invalidate current firmwareWhen powering device from PicKit ensure that "Power target circuit from tool" is checked on Power pane in IPE

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 04:23:00 pm
content: From the photo JP5 looks to be missing? Can you give us a close up.

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 06:04:00 pm
content: As mentioned in the first posting, I'm using both, PIC16F1829 and PIC18F14K22.There is no JP5, because there is no need for it. The pins of JP5 are short-circuited - I don't know why. But otherwise the switch and LEDs would not work.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 06:45:12 pm
content: welcome to the world of picshonestly, microchip has always been one of the most straightforward to me.download idedownload compilerinstallthat's it.in your case i think JP5 is a current sense resistor.. or a bridge so you attach the ammeter. i dunno, it's written in the demo board manual.in the microchip developer website there is a tutorial for youhttp://microchipdeveloper.com/training-self:starti don't know why this website is never mentioned :/

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 06:04:00 pmThat's good.I looked at..http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Low%20Pin%20Count%20User%20Guide%2051556a.pdfCan't see a problem. It should work. (Especially after having reloaded the PICKit firmware)On the one sitting on my desk now (which has the 44-pin demo board and a 18F45K20 attached) the status led is solid YELLOW. The status LED looks off on yours, maybe that is a clue?

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:25:49 pm
content: All jumpers are short-circuited. I will buy a second programmer from another guy and try it. I expected plug and play. If that one is working, the other one goes back to the dealer.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 01:18:17 am
content: http://www.fuckit3.com/I find the pickit3 to be pretty cumbersome and annoying to use. At least mine works. Every time I burn more pics I have to enter advanced mode, type in a silly password and set power configs (You'd think the default would be for ICSP? but no)

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 06:53:24 am
content: Searching google for "fuckit3" I find what?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 07:27:12 am
content: you actually type the password every time? there is the automatic login tick boxi actually like the PK3 and the IPE (your standalone programmer app, you CAN install only the IPE) this much better than the PK2. At the beginning it was a catastrophic useless shit, granted, but things gets better with time.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 07:29:04 am
content: Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 10:24:45 amI guess the Microchip IDE programmer has the same philosophy as PICs, like minimalism, reduced instruction set etc. It says "erase", not "erase and verify"This is normal for the PICkit programmer.Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 10:59:22 amI had a similar problem when using an USB extension cable. Without it, or with external power, it worked. But sometimes it didn't work with 3.3V, looks like 5V is more reliable, which of course is not a good idea for in-circuit programming when using other 3.6V max parts. Maybe I should use something like 4V, balancing carefully between more reliable programming and not frying the other chips

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 07:33:58 am
content: Quote from: Curby on July 02, 2017, 02:00:45 pmIt should not get hot, my PICkit3 never got hot so far.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 08:23:38 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on July 03, 2017, 07:29:04 amfor this one you have to thank computer manufacturers who NEVER supplies 5V on the USB, always something between 4.5 and 4.8this, at least, for each and every computer i ever used, from dell to apple to acer to hp.have to reduce to something like 3.0 or 2.8 to stop the error.. or provide external power which is always the best

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 12:11:09 pm
content: This far I can say, the dealer accepted returning, but I don't have to send it back. A second PICkit3 is on its way to me. Let's see, if the second have the same problems. Yes i tried it on different computers.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 02:02:55 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 03, 2017, 08:23:38 amThe voltage from a bus powered USB hub may go all the way down to 4.4 V according to the USB spec, so sounds to me like those computers are within spec. It is up to the designer of any equipment that uses power from USB to account for this variation. If Microchip designed the PICkit to require at least 4.9 V from USB, then that is a design flaw in the PICkit, not in the computer.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:06:12 pm
content: +1. Microchip made a crappy design decision by not including a Vdd boost circuit to permit it to output up to 5.5V, by only providing a nominal 30mA current capability, and not providing an external power jack. With a boost circuit and beefier MOSFETs in the Vdd output circuit, it could easily have been capable of over 100mA at a full 5V.

author: cv007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:27:30 pm
content: I'm running 8 digits of 14segment led's from just the pickit3 and measured 330ma+ with a meter. Its been running the display for several months non-stop. I know the documentation says 30ma, but that doesn't square with what I have running.Its a little hard to follow the Pickit3 schematic in the documentation, but it appears to be simply pwm'ing the Vusb voltage to whatever voltage is required (up to whatever the Vusb is doing). The Pickit3 is asking for 500ma in the usb descriptors, there is a 500ma PTC inline with the Vusb, so I don't know where the 30ma limit comes from. I could be reading the schematic wrong, though.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:01:34 am
content: I would suspect the issue is excessive voltage drop across the upper MOSFET, and above 30 mA you wont reliably get the minimum 4.5V that many older PICs specify for bulk Erase.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:43:22 am
content: Given the minimum USB voltage is 4.4 V, it will never reliably meet that limit without some sort of boost converter/charge pump, regardless of the current.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:13:06 am
content: Well we already *know* it has a number of design issues.I can't remember if they ever sorted out the issue with the button totally bricking PIC32 chips if it was pressed with a PIC32 target connected but without the programmer being in PTG mode with a valid firmware image.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 04:08:56 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 04, 2017, 01:43:22 am4.4V is only for low current devices. If the PICkit3 successfully negotiates 500mA then it should getat least4.75V. I have several desktop PC's and 2 laptops, all are very close to 5V.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 06:21:22 pm
content: A high powered port should deliver at least 4.75 V at the host port. Since USB has no remote voltage sensing, the voltage may drop an additional 125 mV for both the VBUSand ground wires, lowering the voltage to 4.5 V at the device under steady state conditions. Lower under transient conditions. Granted, this might be slightly better if the Microchip-supplied USB cable drops less than the maximum allowed by the USB spec, but this is not something a designer should rely on (how many of only use a USB device with its original USB cable?). So I still maintain that it is not possible to maintain a reliable 4.5 V minimum output from USB VBUSwith just a linear regulator. See attached figure from the USB 2.0 spec (ignore the part referenced to the hub, since that is a low power port).

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 06:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 02, 2017, 02:57:29 pmI got a second PICkit3. it doesn't wpork either.I can not toggle Pin 4 on the first one. On the second I can not togge Pin 5 and Pin 4 toggles only about a few 100mV. Wtf...

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 06:32:20 pm
content: Can you try a different computer to exclude any problems with dodgy USB ports?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 07:04:45 pm
content: Quote from: Curby on July 04, 2017, 06:26:19 pmSo your supplier has a batch of reject PICkit 3 units (some of which may be O.K or only have corrupted firmware) and lets his customers do the testing. Eventually you *may* get a good one, but if not, how good are you at SMD rework? If a PICkit 3 outputs the correct Vdd and can output a 13V Vpp pulse, but has defective PGC, PGD or PGM pins, they can almost always be fixed by replacing the 74LVC1T45 level translating buffer for the defective pin(s).

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 07:43:33 pm
content: The first one is from a dealer, the second one privat, different person. But I think they are both not defect. There must me somethign wrong with USB, communication or something. I will try the next days a different computer.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 07:53:57 pm
content: Quote from: Curby on July 04, 2017, 07:43:33 pmThey're not connected to anything (except USB) when you test them, are they?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 09:24:53 pm
content: If it outputs the correct Vdd and you can control it, and it can supply 30mA at 4.5V, the v3.10 PC software and the PC must be OK, USB Vbus must be OK, and the USB comms must be working. If you cant then toggle the pins in the logic tool, its got a hardware fault.Unfortunately a PICkit 3 is fairly easy to damage by connecting it to a target board that's not either isolated or at the same ground potential as the PC, or by applying external voltages outside the range Vss to Vdd to its pins. e.g, by lUsers who try to connect a 13V supply to /MCLR while the PICkit 3 is connected for reasons they cant explain to the non-mentally deficient audience. You need one that hasn't previously been owned by a muppet . . . .

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 12:31:41 am
content: there have been problems with the usb cables on some clones - try another cable.and if it's a real computer and not a laptop, connect to the rear connectors that are mounted on the motherboard.avoid any front case-mounted sockets because they have questionable extension cables on them.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 03:13:08 am
content: Stay away from USB splitters/extenders. Though the Pickit3 may work with some, functionality is questionable. Always use a direct connection to a USB port on your PC with Pickit3... If you use the Pickit3 on such an extender, don't just swap usb ports, and don't just do a system restart, to be absolutely sure, do a system shut-down & power up before trying the Pickit3 again now plugged directly into a USB port on your PC.

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 10:29:13 am
content: Now I got extra dsPIC33. I used a breadboard with 3.3V from a 78L33. When I connect one or the other PICkit3 my power supply tells me that there is a current flow of about 70-90mA - from that moment I connect VDD/VSS to the PICkit3. Before it is 10mA. Do I have that much bad luck that both are broken?

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 10:42:16 am
content: Can you summarize the current state? In particular you mentioned things getting hot... which things?I think you need to step back a bit... with just the PicKit attached to the PC what voltages do you see coming out of Pins 2 & 3 (where 1 has the arrow)I think IanM had a check list of things to do above.Assume for a second that you have fried all your PICs

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 10:51:22 am
content: Just the PICkit3: the first has 1.2V and the other one has 0.5V between Pin2/3 withut any other connected.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 11:01:54 am
content: If you are breadboarding with a PICkit 3, for %DEITY%'s sake use a proper breakout lead for it. Stuffing random bare ended jumper wires into the PICkit 3 ICSP connector can short it out. Jumpers with crimped Dupont pin ends are safe as the pin cant go in too far, but its preferable to convert them to a breakout lead by transferring the pins to a six way shell at the PICkit end, clearly mark pin 1 on the shell with a dab of Tipex, and label the free ends of the individual wires.I assume you've double-checked that you haven't reversed the ICSP connector or got it misaligned (possible if the board only has a 5 pin header - you *MUST* match pin 1 with the white arrow on the PICkit 3) and that the ICSP connector on your boad uses the Microchip standard pinout.The PICkit 3 connects Vss to USB ground, which is also chassis ground and on all PCs except laptops with two pin mains leads, is connected back to mains ground. If your PSU output isn't either fully floating, or connected to the SAME mains outlet ground as the PC you can have major problems with ground loops.However it sounds like you may be just that unlucky. With no target board connected and using the standalone v3.10 app, set Vdd off. Connect an external 3V battery supply, + to Vdd via a 100R series resistor, - to Vss. Click the Vdd On/Off checkbox again so it detects the external target power. The PICkit 3 should load the external Vdd source by about 0.5mA (6.1K divider chain @ 3V), as the only parts of it fed by Vdd_TAR are the 74LVC1T45 buffers (worst case quiescent current <100uA) and the Vdd feedback divider. If it draws more, odds are its FUBARed.

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 11:06:35 am
content: Connecting my PICkit3 to the external 3.3V (only Pin2,3 of PICit3) is measures correctly the 3.3V. There are about 60mA.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 11:16:04 am
content: Quote from: Curby on July 05, 2017, 10:51:22 amPin 2 is Vdd and pin 3 is Vss.The PICkit *SHOULD* have 0V on those pins until it is under the control of MPLAB, IPE or the v3.10 app and target power has been enabled. It should then have a voltage between 2.0V and 5.0V between Vdd and Vss. It should *NEVER* output significantly less than 2.0V. 1.2V or 0.5V indicate a probable hardware fault.Maybe something you have been doing has damaged all the PICkit 3 programmers? See my comments above about target boards with a different ground to your PC.Quote from: Curby on July 05, 2017, 11:06:35 amIf its drawing 60mA from an external Vdd supply, its FUBARed. The FDC6420C complimentary MOSFET used for Vdd control has a 1K resistor in series with the drain of its N-channel device, so cant draw more than 3.3mA @3.3V. Each 74LVC1T45 buffer has a 100R resistor limiting the current it can draw from Vdd_TAR so at least two pin buffers must be blown.

author: Curby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 12:15:23 pm
content: Before I try to repair or buy a new one (they were both used): Using external Voltage I hope I can connect 0-5V to Pin2/3 and using internal what happens, when my circuit tries to draw more ampere than the PICkit3 can provide? I hope it just says "NO".

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 01:07:24 pm
content: why are you buying used stuff when it;s only $10 new from china with cables and a zif-socket pcb for off-board programming??

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 01:29:44 pm
content: Yes, it does seem a little crazy for a novice. An extremely experienced hobbyist on a tight budget might buy a used one cheap to have a genuine serial number just to avoid hassles getting Microchip support for MPLAB PICkit 3 issues. Worst case: either Microchip swaps it out or one ends up fixing it (if tht's less hassle than organising the return) so you end up with a spare genuine PICkit 3. Due to their tendency to occasionally brick themselves, (fortunately rare now) requiring another programmer to reflash the bootloader, and their limited protection against user error, its no bad thing to have a spare.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 02:04:20 pm
content: I have many PICkit3s. Some of them I bought in DigiKey for top dollar. Some of them I won on eBay auctions at very cheap price. They all were new and genuine. I don't see any difference between them. Certainly, I connected them backwards on numerous occasions, made other connection mistakes too. I'd say my usage is rather harsh. But none of them ever failed.If you want to save money, buy one of the Microchip Curiosity boards. It is cheap and it has a built-in programmer on it. It's not as good as PICkit3, but it's definitely much cheaper.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 02:30:34 pm
content: Working on the basis of clutching at straws whilst looking for a needle in a haystack...Let's say that your Low Pincount demo board has a short... When unplugged from the PicKit3 what is the resistance between pins 1 and 20? Does it change if the PIC is removed?(Pin 1 and 20 on device should be the same as between Pin 2 and 3 on P1)