Price AD - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2019, 11:12:55 am
content: I just got a phone call from the German Sale office: 7999€ .Too much for an hobbist like me, they even offer me a -10% discount.At least I tried.

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2019, 11:46:21 am
content: I once signed up for a trial of Circuit.... StudioMakerThatCheapADThing. Didn't work for me at that time, so I didn't go on that route. Few days after the trial period I got bombarded with calls and mails regarding my "requested" talk with a sales representative. I can't remember to ever asked for that. And they didnt stop! I had to be quite unfriendly until that lady understood that I wanted her to bugger off.Some time later, I subscribed for another trial period, this time mainly to see if anything significant has changed and also to get an insight into the Altium community, Vault, Forums and so on - which I didn't get. Again, I got called. Asked for a price. "You can get AD for as low as 8000€!" - "How about no? I signed up for CircuitWhatever for a reason." - "Yeah, but we would like to convince you that you need AD for the work you do" - "I use AD at work, why do you think I think about buying CircuitWhatever, which is much cheaper, for my home projects?" - "Yeah, but AD is so much better, and so cheap, and". Hung up on her. She called back, insisting that I NEED to listen to this gread discount they can provide me with. So I listened.If I would have bought Circuitwhatever für ~500€ I would get the upgrade to AD for as low as 7500€! WOW! What a bargain!But I had to decide if I would like to take that great offer very soon, as licenses are limited.

author: Pseudobyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2019, 03:27:58 pm
content: Here in the states I recently picked up a license for 4000 USD. You just need to tell them you are one man shop or contractor and they should drop the price significantly.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2019, 11:52:01 pm
content: Quote from: zucca on August 20, 2019, 11:12:55 amIf you are a hobbyist, find other ways, or use kicad.

author: dfnr2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2020, 04:34:50 pm
content: I'm bumping this instead of starting a new thread because this is a kind of perennially relevant topic which may vary over time and with location, and it makes no sense to fragment the information.I haven't heard that a one-man-shop can get better prices. I am a one man operation, and my license is up for renewal. Has anyone had any luck negotiating better rates for the annual renewal?Thanks in advance!

author: sam512bb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2020, 02:53:19 am
content: Quote from: dfnr2 on October 23, 2020, 04:34:50 pmIt is best to negotiate with Altium near their year end, as they can be very aggressive at getting you to sign up. I had Altium Ver 10 and have been out of maintenance for several years and last year they sent an e-mail about a discounted price. I ended up upgrading to Altium Ver 20 with 18 months support for about $3K USD. As I said I noticed the pattern that their renewal prices become far more aggressive in the Spring.Cheers,Sam

author: Pseudobyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2020, 11:59:56 am
content: Yeah the time to buy is usually April-Jun

author: profanum429
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2020, 03:18:38 am
content: I got a Black Friday 35% offer today from Altium for their perpetual licenses; bring it down an affordable ~6k

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 07:13:24 pm
content: Quote from: profanum429 on November 21, 2020, 03:18:38 amYou have a rather weird definition of what's affordable. I paid $3600 for my license (actually I've only paid half of it so far because it's split over 12 months, and I'm 6 months into it), but I would never call even my price "affordable".

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 02:34:34 am
content: QuoteWhat price would be 'affordable'?Would it depend on what one's job is (PCB designer, systems developer, etc)? If so, at what price point would each become affordable?

author: Pseudobyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:33:37 pm
content: At 3600 you could recoup your investment and then some if you are using your license professionally. One $20,000 layout later and you are probably doing pretty well.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 04:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: Pseudobyte on November 24, 2020, 03:33:37 pmNot everybody is paid that much for a single project, and if they are, that project doesn't drag over very long time (requiring maintenance purchases). Still, it's not bad if all you do is layout.But in my case I do an entire solution from schematics to working boards or fully assembled devices delivered to a customer, so naturally I only use Altium for a portion of such projects, as the rest is FPGA design and/or MCU firmware/PC software development. So in my case it's hard to draw an exact line when I can say that I got my RoI because there might be periods of several months in a row when I won't even open Altium at all as I will be working on other aspects of system design.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 08:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on November 24, 2020, 04:40:14 pmNiche corporate job is great if you can find one and worm your way into it. I do the equivlent of that in exchange for a decent chunk of coin a year. That said im also an odd ball with a full lab in my house and own altium 20 and been on and off maintenance for years. They didnt want to play ball on my latest renewal so I will sit on them until someone comes fishing and can make a deal to say they won me back. They are just standard sales folk.. they wont do shit less something is in it for them. 2k to renew one license for myself that's a convenience license? yeah they can bugger off

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 03:07:50 pm
content: Quote from: Elasia on December 05, 2020, 08:13:32 pmI'm not sure it's even worth it if all you do is layout. Orcad Pro is much more powerful for layout, and have great and *working* board-level simulation, while sims in AD 20 are essentially useless. It's so bad that now even if I do layout in AD 20, I then import it into Orcad PCB to do impedance and crosstalk simulations so that I can confirm that the board will actually work. For high-speed boards, simulation is not a gimmick but a hard requirement, and I was unpleasantly surprised that SI sim in AD20 is so useless.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 11:22:18 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on December 07, 2020, 03:07:50 pmWhy are you using AD then?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 11:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 07, 2020, 03:21:20 pmIf you gov-funded, do you still need to control budget and have some limits?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 03:13:54 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 07, 2020, 11:22:18 pmBecause some customers demand it.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 12:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 08, 2020, 12:58:25 amThat's interesting... some hardware has specific software packages no just knobs & buttons, are you going to break EULA since how come you can 'rent' hardware without special agreement with manufacturer, no?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 12:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 08, 2020, 12:10:39 pmCould you explain what you meant, please?

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 02:37:45 pm
content: Sorry for this quick off-topic, but blueskull mentioned open lab / foss tools.Are there any such tools circulating within China that those of us elsewhere may not be aware of?And useable by folks like me that don't understand Chinese!!

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 03:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 08, 2020, 12:26:36 pmoff-topic, but since you have asked, for example, you bought oscilloscope for 50K and spent 50K on addo-on. Now, you lend (,rent or share) with somebody else - is it legal from EULA perspective? In most cases, no - regardless it's hardwired to an instrument or Windows PC

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 04:11:46 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 08, 2020, 03:47:18 pmIt's none of manufacturer's business how I use the stuff I bought, and any of them tries to tell me otherwise will be told to go f* themselves.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 06:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 08, 2020, 03:53:56 pmSure, a small fish can freely swim through a bigger net, but would be unwise to claim because I bought it I can do that, right?There're humans and want make a deal, always part of negotation and they will not put their head into a black hole.Why didn't you transfer your license to a current place initially?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 06:40:26 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on December 08, 2020, 04:11:46 pmHaha, delusional to think that their software is yours.... and actually if they will know that you're using their stuff for some activities that not supposed to be, you'll be under a radar sooner or laterOf course, nobody will knock your doors today and will ask why are are renting your oscilloscope (as per my example) and didn't ask permission on a small scale.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 06:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 08, 2020, 06:40:26 pmNo, delusion is on your part here as we're talking about oscilloscopes and other HW devices which you actually BUY - unlike software which you LICENSE (and so you only OWN a license, not software itself).Also, "being under radar" means "being invisible, hidden from sight". I suspect that you intended the opposite meaning.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 09:25:59 am
content: Quote from: asmi on December 08, 2020, 06:55:57 pmYes, indeed!

author: ajawamnet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 02:59:47 pm
content: Ok - so, let's see what the guys that did the first shrinkwrap for Job and Wozniak state about licenses...Info on Fenwickhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenwick_%26_Westwhere it states:"Apple Computer: Apple was a very early client of the firm; the firm advised Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak on the incorporation of the company and also advised Apple on the creation of the first shrinkwrap license agreement in 1976."http://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocuments/Patent_Licensing.pdfCheck out page 9:"Licensor and Licensee RestrictionsWhile United States law generally leaves licensors and licensees unfettered in draftingagreements as they see fit, the law does impose some limitations. These limitationsprimarily prevent licensors from imposing terms in license agreements that are thought tobe contrary to public policy. For example, antitrust laws prevent licensors from requiringlicensees to purchase staple articles of commerce as a condition to obtaining a license topatented technology. The motivation for such restriction is to prevent the licensor fromunduly expanding the market power conferred by the patent grant to effectively also controlunattended goods. Similarly, the doctrine of patent misuse is applied in certain situationswhere a licensor imposes license fees that do not change as patents for the licensedtechnology expire."Also the section above it on Quiet Enjoyment - ya know - the bare minimum a slumlord has to give his section 8 tenants:"“Quiet Enjoyment”Licensees, having paid for the right to use licensed technology, generally seek to ensure thatnothing interferes with the benefits they have received. For example, licensees are concernedwith their ability to obtain assistance from the licensor in fixing defects that are discovered inthe technology, to have the right to fix the defects themselves if the licensor is unable to doso, to obtain periodic upgrades and other maintenance services from the licensor, to transfertheir rights if they sell their business and to continue enjoying the technology even if thelicensor becomes bankrupt."

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 10:54:38 pm
content: +1 for blueskull when dealing with major packages.. its really software industry wide. They typically dont care if you are a small shop of just a handful.. you can even still haggle with them just make sure you got whatever in writing. Beyond that though sometimes its either legal, prestige to impress customers, or related reasons beyond just paying for software that is your bread winner.Most of the legalese in those license write ups is more about targeting specific groups which tend to be larger outfits that should be paying hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars but are not and are making a killing off the use of the software. Also a lot of them have audit clauses specifically for this reason.. a lot of the time a place may over use the same license just due to ignorance not actually intending to pirate.As far as altium goes I just got a nice renewal rate out of them so good for awhile once again.. kinda pissed off some functions i use are broke in AD21 atm though but the 365 bit isnt that bad to have.. kinda easy to show things to clients in the age of covid with less hassle. I would like if they got off their ass with AD21 and put in some decent SI now that they are finally working on that bit.. still no substitute for other packages SI though probly for another year or two

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 11:49:46 pm
content: QuoteWhich are those? I have 21 download ready to install, but would rather keep a working setup if something important is broken.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 12:25:01 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 09, 2020, 09:25:59 am"Being On radar" then

author: Gerhard_dk4xp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 12:47:03 am
content: If you have a working solution, keep that very carefully.I had AD20 crash today on a board that could not be more harmless.The error message was "x2.exe does not work anymore", in German,so the message is probably from my Win7. Googling around showedthat most probably a re-install was needed.( The AD error window showed that it followed a nil-pointer.)So I installed a fresh AD21. You can install it either over the old version(bad idea) or in parallel. First I tried to store the shared documents folderon D:\. The Installer mangled that to something like \\?\d:\Altium\shared....which did not work. I definitely do not want user data on C: if I canavoid it.Second try with defaults seemed to work; when done it asked: run AD21?I typed Y and AD21 died on the spot.I called it up once more and this time it worked. It seems, another few thingshave changed, but I could do my corrections on some 5 traces and store that.I opened another unimportant project just to play around and Kaboom! it crashed.On the spot.I had still the VMware machine with AD16 from before the "UPGRADE" in summer,started it and everything worked smoothly.It seems that my relationship with Altium since P99 is rapidly approaching it's end.Gerhard... and it's funny if you want to store your project's state and you are answeredwith "sorry, I can't do that because of an uncompleted command - should I storeyour project's state instead?" (Doesn't work either)And if I send a crash report, I don't expect any follow up. It's Altium, after all.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 12:59:58 am
content: Ouch! I'll remain a bit lazy then, thanks

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 04:45:53 am
content: You might try setting up a fresh vm with the latest W10 20H2, they both seem fine as far as files go with that. My own issues are with the bom, supplier data isnt being pulled in correctly and barfing at me.. more of an annoyance than show stopper.. it just thinks every supplier is invalid and risky

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 05:06:50 am
content: I tend not to use VMs for real work, and certainly not W10.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 09:02:53 am
content: Quote from: Gerhard_dk4xp on December 21, 2020, 12:47:03 amI just opened a few projects in 21, looks okay.As usual, I have installed 21 as a new separate installation (never do major update!) and don't import previous settings as well as don't share folder with previous versions.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 02:21:00 am
content: I will add another one into AD21 bugs collection - paste layer is not properly displayed for pads.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 02:46:27 pm
content: That was quick - Altium acknowledged the bug and moved it to "in development" status. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 11:28:21 am
content: That would be the miracle if they will fix it quickly.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 06:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 23, 2020, 11:28:21 amI'm hopeful - this bug is clearly a regression because previous version didn't have this problem, so the fix should be fairly straightforward.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 07:23:06 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on December 22, 2020, 02:21:00 amThis isnt some obscure, difficult to reproduce bug.To me it is astonishing on how each major version of Altium, they seem to break FUNDAMENTAL basic things like in your example. It is as if there is no regression testing or software quality control whatsoever.It is the reason myself and many others juststay away from these new releasesfor a long time. Its recommended unless you would like to be Altiums quality control working for free.The fix might be straightforward. This is likely the case for most bugs. These kind of basic bugs though, should never be re-created to begin with let alone make it to the public release only to have many many users wasting their own time on it.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 01:11:26 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 23, 2020, 11:28:21 amThey've fixed the bug in 21.0.9.