Why doesnt CS believe autosave is a good feature?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 01:30:01 pm
content: I just lost hours of work because CS does not autobackup an open file. It locked up on me and that was that. It's really disappointing that this could be avoided if they implemented autobackup. It is the kind of feature that spoils a decent package.Maybe Orcad might be the way forward. Does that autosave?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 01:33:22 pm
content: Quote from: trevwhite on October 27, 2017, 01:30:01 pmI've just taught myself to hit Ctrl + S all the time in every application.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 01:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 27, 2017, 01:33:22 pmIt's not right. It's been decades since I had to worry about cad not autosaving.And they probably will read this and just stay quiet. Frustrating because CS has a lot of positivesThanksTrev

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:10:11 pm
content: Yeah, that is a real bummer when it happensWe did discuss this already:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/autosave-90934/msg1244993/#msg1244993...and James agreed with us and promised to pass it on to developers. However, I'm guessing the big new release of Altium Designer is taking up all developer time at the moment. Maybe we'll get some attention after that happens...pleeeeaseEdit:Of course that code is already written, it should have been copied across from the Designer code base.Poor alternative: Look at 3rd party auto-backup options. I might check that out myself...

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on October 27, 2017, 08:10:11 pmWhat I do not understand is that there is a history folder that saves previous versions. All they need is a timer to implement that feature.ThanksTrev

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:20:36 pm
content: Yeah, it's even mentioned somewhere in the CS global options, a checkbox for "include in Autosave" or something like that.So it was deliberately removed already, poor decision.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:22:17 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on October 27, 2017, 08:20:36 pmMaybe we can edit a config file somehowThanksTrev

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:52:53 pm
content: Does Altium Designer have autosave? (I hope so - even every Microsoft Office product has autosave, web browsers will recover tabs after a crash, etc. It's pretty much just expected).If AD has this "feature" and it has been removed from Circuit Studio which is just a cut down AD then that implies malice on the part of Altium. It's one thing not being able to have advanced stuff like FPGA pin swap or impedence matched squiggly wiggly track routing. But to deliberately remove a data recovery feature is disgusting.I can't imagine any of the developers OK'd this, but pointy headed MBA's actually thought "Haha - if the stupid nerds didn't back up their CS stuff, maybe they will look at paying out for AD instead." Good Idea!ETA: "Hell, it will make them go for our Cloud backup stuff and Internet of Shit!"Also, surely the reason for the data recovery is because AD or CS crashed due to Altiums bugs to begin with!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 10:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on October 27, 2017, 08:20:36 pmIt's arguably better to have people expect nothing, so they save files themselves, rather than expecting a solution that turns out to be flawed.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 08:06:25 am
content: It's not about expectations. I would say it's a basic required feature. What if you have a power failure. A hardware fault. I can't see how it looks good for Altium to have removed this feature. Also they did so many good things with CS.

author: Mjolinor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 09:30:27 am
content: I find any autosave to be a real PITA and I am sure I am not alone.If I want to save something then I will save it, if I want it and don't save it then it is my fault.Maybe my position is made easier as I don't use any Windo$e products so don't have a falling over and losing work problem, it doesn't happen with Linux.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 10:38:16 am
content: CS crashes a bit now and then. It is not often and maybe its related to interaction with other applications. I have Dropbox running for example. I have 3 screens on. I have other applications running. There is a lot going on and its impressive to me all this stuff works 99% of the time anyway.Windows 10 has been reliable. I forget I am using it whereas with Vista I always knew I was using it because of how shite it was.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 11:27:42 am
content: My left hand is glued to CTRL+S, but yes autosave should be a at least a feature you can turn on/off in every decent bit of software.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 11:37:59 am
content: The Autosave feature which is in Altium Designer (and should be in CS) is better than pressing Ctrl-S because:(1) It doesn't forget(2) It doesn't simply overwrite your previously saved work. It builds a history. That helps not only when the software crashes but also when you make a mistake.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 11:43:37 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 27, 2017, 10:21:32 pmAh, yes, you're one of those people who'd like cars to be designed with the driver's seat on the front bumper...Tim

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:19:06 pm
content: Quote from: trevwhite on October 28, 2017, 08:06:25 amAgain, I can see an argument for removing something that's not functioning predictably altogether. Now you know not to expect something, rather than being caught with your pants down when things go awry.Don't get me wrong, I think it is a valuable addition to any software used in production environments.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:21:58 pm
content: The software is there as a tool to make me productive. Being trigger happy with Ctrl S means I am thinking about the wrong things when workingThanksTrev

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 28, 2017, 11:43:37 amI would appreciate it if you wouldn't mangle my words because you don't agree with the point brought forward. Obviously, I said I could see them having a point. I haven't quite said I agree with that point.Comparing it to strapping people to the front bumper also seems a bit odd. It's more like removing seatbelts altogether, rather than having people drive around with solid looking ones that might snap when anything happens. Though I'm not quite fond of car comparisons, because they generally go awry, as has been demonstrated here.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: trevwhite on October 28, 2017, 02:21:58 pmAgain, I think it's a nice addition to any software. It quickly becomes a reflex to save your work, but it would be better to not needing the reflex at all.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:30:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 28, 2017, 02:25:33 pmI don't consider it a nice feature. I consider it a standard feature.ThanksTrev

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 06:50:18 pm
content: I just wanted to point out the ironic title of this thread:"Why doesnt CS believe autosave is a good feature?"The answer is of course they think its a great feature, too good for CS so they removed it!

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:50:57 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on October 30, 2017, 06:50:18 pmLike I said, malice. Altium know that their own software crashes - which is why a total band aid is automatic periodic backups - much the same as Microsoft Office, etc. It has no impact whatsoever on the user (I mean we aren't using 3.5" floppies and worrying about a few 100k of space anymore).Altium removing this "feature" which costs them nothing and indeed must have cost something to deliberately remove seems to me something that could be challenged in court if a customer loses their work and I'm pretty sure they would win. (At least if they got my favourite youtube lawyer Leonard French on the case)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 10:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on October 30, 2017, 10:50:57 pmThis is becoming awfully speculative. There are plenty of reasons why software that's not properly functioning would be removed from the release version and that would be perfectly defensible in court.People need to take some responsibility of their own too.

author: buck converter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 11:03:25 pm
content: :)Just a reminder that evenFritzinghas auto-save.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 11:58:13 pm
content: Quote from: Mjolinor on October 28, 2017, 09:30:27 amIt most definitely happens in Linux - it's the shitty apps that crash all the time, fucking hell have you tried KiCAD?... you wonder why it is in permanent beta? and we are talking about apps not the OS."Windo$e"... ahh, obvious troll is obvious.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 12:25:37 am
content: Quote from: Mjolinor on October 28, 2017, 09:30:27 amWTF?As long as autosave saves to a different place to your working filename, how can it ever be a PITA?An autosave that does overwrite your current file would be bad and potentially dangerous, but that's just poor implementation

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 01:19:31 am
content: The only time autosave is a PITA to me is when it's doing it on a network drive and locks up for 30 seconds.This isn't about autosaves per se, but Altium's implementation, which I think saves a temporary ".$$$" copy in the project folder (i.e., on the network), then saves the recovery copy, and probably some other inefficient steps along with that, like modifying supporting files (project, structure, lock, history, etc.).It probably doesn't help that the network involved is pathologically slow (I think around 20kB/s), but yeah.On the upside, Altium's saving feature is so thoroughly prioritized* that I've only ever lost ~hours of progress, in over half a decade of using it. The single worst case was when the recovery copies weren't saving, which I didn't notice (because, hey, no one-second pause every ten minutes interrupting my work, right?), until I went to look and saw the last autosave was an hour or two behind..*No doubt, they've had enough complaints from customers about crashes from other things, that they just can't be arsed to fix, that they hardened the save action instead.Tim