Help for setting up the scope for curve tracing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Aurgelme
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2023, 10:33:03 am
content: Since I am new to digital scope, I was wondering if anyone has a recipe for setting up the Siglent sds 1200 to X/Y for use with a cheap curve tracer (NI210G VI)

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2023, 01:49:41 pm
content: Here's a link, requires a AWG and DSO.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fooln-around-with-dso-awg/msg4421209/#msg4421209Best,

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2023, 01:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 22, 2023, 01:49:41 pmThe OP does not require an AWG. Just needs to know how to display the two outputs from the NI-210G as X and Y on the scope.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2023, 02:54:33 pm
content: acquire menu, then XY -> ON/OFFseehttps://siglentna.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X&Xplus_UserManual_UM0101X-E02A.pdfpage 66

author: Aurgelme
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2023, 08:15:24 am
content: After testing this curve tracer on a rigol 510x and an old analog scope, the lines for the measurements are displayed perfectly regardless of frequency and volts.On the Siglent SDS 1202X-E, it does not look as good with varying display in relation to test voltage and frequency. I've read the manual and found a bit about settings, but this is the best I can come up with.Are these limitations due to a cheap digital scope?Maybe there's a little person in there stacking Lego blocks

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 11:06:53 am
content: Why those silly distorted photographs?Just plug in an Ethernet cable, go to your scope with a web browser and make pixel perfect screenshots.

author: Aurgelme
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 01:10:53 pm
content: OK I understand. Here you can see silly distorted screenshoots.It wasn't the photographs that were the problem, but anyway thanks for the feedback

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 06:18:57 pm
content: Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/shopping-for-used-scope-to-use-as-curve-tracer/msg4391185/#msg4391185for the settings I used on my Rigol DS1054Z to obtain the trace in that post.

author: Aurgelme
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 08:08:51 am
content: Finally got acceptable display by setting the memory depth to 7k and a couple of things I don't remember what was set before. An incredible number of combinations to test when I don't have the training with a digital scope.Anyway, I'm satisfied, even if it's not as good as my old analog scope and a friend's digital scope with 4 times the price, so I'll probably have to invest in a better scope eventually

author: DannyJM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 01:34:14 am
content: Hi y'all brand new to the group and I just spent all day trying to get my new old (1970's)B&K 501 Curve tracer to work with my new today Rigol DS1102Z-E O-Scope. OMG what a pain. This digital scope is not set up to use with my analog curve tracer. I was able to calibrate the scope to the curve tracer using the instructions in the curve tracer manual although the grid only has 8 divisions vertically instead of 10 ok fine. But the main problem was triggering. Even if you select auto as the triggering mode it still cares how you set the parameters in the triggering menu. And every triggering mode calls out a time based parameter. No voltage based triggering level anywhere. Hey dudes I'm in X-Y mode here just plot the voltages! But no I had to try everything 6 different ways 5 different times but I finally did get it to work. It's nowhere near as pretty as my analog scope with the curve tracer but having the cursors and the storage if I can figure out how to do that will be helpful. I set the channel 1 (x) and channel 2)y) inputs to DC coupled. triggering on Slope or edge source chan 2. Messed about with where to put the channel indicators to get the display right side up and inside the screen. I'm pretty tired but I'll try to attach some pictures and be able to answer questions possibly if desired.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 03:28:24 pm
content: I still have the setup file for Siglent and 501. All couplings should be DC. Trigger is Channel ONE, the Y axis., NOT Channel 2, the X axis. I found the display that worked best for me was a fixed sample of 50kSa/S and display set to full intensity. YMMV.The 501A is a decent unit and I had changed to BNC connectors. Sold it and I do not remember much else. It does diodes very nicely. Upgraded to the HK which has more flexibilty.

author: DannyJM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 04:51:31 pm
content: Day 2 with the new Scope and old Curve Tracer. More frustration as XY mode is the lost stepchild of the instrument design team. The memory depth for the XY display is600 pts and that's it. I did save the setup in a file I think. So this morning I did some measurements to determine DC Current Gain of a 2N3904 Bipolar Transistor and I think I got it pretty well. Here below is a chart of my results. Th Orange points are my data The Gray points are from the data sheet and are presented as minimum gains the Blue dot is the only Max gain provided by the data sheet. As you can see the data collected and carefully checked for reasonableness through the translation of voltage read off the scope to Currents. The data sheet called out 1 Volt as the Vc collector voltage so that is the point of measurement for the current gains. The Tracer generates Base Currents in steps of various regularly spaced intervals of 10uA, 20uA, 50uA, .1mA .2mA etc and those correspond to the members of the family of curves. So the known interval between the curves becomes delta Ib (base current change) for the Current gain calculation so If I measre two intervals at 1V from the say 2nd and 4th curve and the steps are 20uA then delta Ib is taken to be 2 x 20uA= 40uA. Then I need the delta Collector current which are measured quite nicely using the 2 sets of cursor lines just the AY and BY. Measure where the curves intersect with the 1V horizontall measurement point and read off the AY-BY value that appears on the display and translate using the volts per division you calibrated the vertical scale to . In the manual they say calibrate the vertical to 1 volt full range and then each division of their special graticle that came with the curve tracer but that was in 1975 and I don't have it. That would have had 10 divisions bottom to top and 10 left to right but my scope has 8 divisions both directions. So with their 10x10 graticule every division would be .1V and that translates, they say to 1 mA of Collector current. So millivolts multiplied by 10 = mA which must depend on the value of the hi precision resistor in the Curve Tracer used to calculate current. The curve tracer manual explained all the calibration and measurements quite well and i'm glad it came with the curve tracer. Bought it on Ebay for 148 bucks not knowing if it even worked but B&K makes solid stuff and it looked largely unmolested in the picture and I got lucky. I had to modify it to throw up 5 dots instead of 6 by moving a diode on the circuit board. These dots are for calibrating the scope scales. Six didn't fit nicely onto the 8x8 grid but 5 go 1 every two divisions. I wonder if more expensive digital scopes have better XY mode accomodations?

author: DannyJM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 05:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on April 13, 2025, 03:28:24 pmon the Rigol the horizontal is ch1 and vertical is ch2 and the Sa/S is hardwired for 500k grr thanks for the ireply though. Did the Siglent display look like dots as I have going on? see image below

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 10:52:20 pm
content: No; solid lines. Do you have "dots" selected for the display? I will see if I have some screenshots.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 11:39:44 am
content: The easiest pics to find were ones I used on ebay.https://www.ebay.com/itm/187075354277

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 01:40:14 pm
content: This is what a 2N3904 should look like, altho not with a dedicated Curve Tracer Fixture just an AWG and a couple resistors. Lines should be continuous like with an analog scope aswatchmakerindicated.Best

author: DannyJM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 02:10:47 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on April 14, 2025, 11:39:44 amYes dots are preselected in XY mode cannot change.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 12:17:22 pm
content: Did you read chapter 3 of your user guide carefully? From what I saw and read, it should display x-y figures properly but there are some adjustment that you may need to make in the sampling.Other than that, read the Rigol threads in the Test Equipment Sub Forum. Getting used to a DSO for the first time can be a tedious process.

author: DannyJM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 01:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on April 15, 2025, 12:17:22 pmThank you Watchmaker this is helpful. I can get a better display (still flickering anoyingly) by adjusting the horizontal scale knob which I assumed was disabled in X-Y mode. amen to your last statement