Project/Lab Notebook for documentation, note taking, etc. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 08:25:57 am
content: What do you guys use when working on designs to keep track of notes, measurements, schematics, datasheets, ideas, etc... things you've learned, reminders to yourself, questions, solutions discovered, etc.a notebook/binder? -- one notebook per project? or one overall notebook?electronic means... evernote, ms office documentsome combination of above

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 09:09:50 am
content: Quote from: fivefish on August 30, 2015, 08:25:57 amI use engineering notebooks, like these ones available at Amazon. 312 pages, the big version.Everythingis noted in it, in chronological order. If it is full, I pull the next from the shelf.If I document something in documents or wikis I take the information out of the notebook.Cheershammy

author: Richard Head
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 09:37:08 am
content: I have use hardcover feint and margin books for my entire career. All designs and decisions are noted in there with the date. All drawings and design calculations are included. I also have a contents in the front of the book with dates and page numbers.I have filled three of these books over the years.It's also very interesting to look back at some of your designs from many years ago and chuckle at how naïve I was back then.I have always used a pencil rather than a pen as I often erase drawings and text as the design progresses.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 03:47:09 pm
content: For projects I want to build, one notebook for every two projects (for the second project turn the notebook over and start at the back). Everything goes in there including the initial schematics and the stuff that didn't work out.For ham radio I still keep a paper log rather than an electronic one. EVERYTHING goes in here including antenna experiments and the results of the latest receiver experiments. Once a month I do a quick check on frequency calibration along with harmonics and IMD and the screenshot from the spectrum analyzer gets pasted in there as well. Years ago I was visited by an inspector after someone complained about interference to their TV. After confirming that I was not on air at the time (via the log) he sat back and looked at all the home made equipment and said "I don't need to check any of this, do I?" I said no so he just signed the log and left.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 04:02:00 pm
content: I use the sort of grid pattern books used for maths exercise books in schools. Only one project per book but not necessarily one book per project.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 06:25:49 pm
content: Very helpful replies. Keep it coming.On one hand, I like Evernote since notes I keep there are accessible on my desktop, iPad, iPhone. + all the EN features that come in real handy when doing research about a project (web clipping, PDF storing, screenshots, etc).But on the workbench, I find it tedious and slow "typing" on the iPad all my notes. On the workbench, it's easier (and faster) to do it by pen and paper... especially notes about schematic/component changes, voltage readings, etc.What I end up doing is taking a photo of my printed notes/diagrams with my iPad and saving those into my Evernote project folder.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 06:40:25 pm
content: I keep a folder for each project where related files are kept and use plain text files for notes. Will have to check out evernote, but I would worry about files being in proprietary format?Pen and paper is probably superior, but I find it easier to just create a new text file for each project.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 06:57:10 pm
content: Yeah, I have an iPad Air (Retina screen). I need to get a better pen though because my pen has that big blunt rubbery/spongy point and you can't really see what you're writing on the tablet. I've seen something that looks more like a traditional pencil with very small tip but it seems to cost so much for just a pen.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 09:34:03 pm
content: BTW there is a book about this topic:"Writing the Laboratory Notebook" from Howard M. Kanare.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 10:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: hammy on August 30, 2015, 09:34:03 pmThanks hammy.For reader's convenience, here's the link:http://www.amazon.com/Laboratory-Notebook-American-Chemical-Publication/dp/0841209332

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2015, 10:05:53 pm
content: Paper , in the shape of your favorite notebook style.It works whether you have power, wifi, cloud or network connection, can't crack ,don't have to remember a password, can't be compromised by a virus or get hacked.Eventually the result may or does end up in electronic form as a result, but the notebook gives you a chronological view of evolution that you don't need to rely on specific software for keeping track of versions.For specific issues, I also prefer mailing lists to forums. But that's another topic altogether

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 01:36:52 pm
content: Bookies slips! 😀

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 03:08:23 pm
content: http://www.amazon.com/Moleskine-Classic-Notebook-Squared-Notebooks/dp/8883701135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441033587&sr=8-1&keywords=moleskine+notebook+large+squaredNot an "official" lab notebook, but so far is my favorite form factor. Easy to fit on the desk and portable compared to the giant, bound volumes, which are just too large to be practical for me.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 03:17:32 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 31, 2015, 03:08:23 pmClassier version of what I like. Might have to try one out.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 07:02:09 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 31, 2015, 03:08:23 pmThe feature I like and that is a must for the notebook: It has to lieflatif it is open.Cheershammy

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 07:26:05 pm
content: I make my own with thishttp://www.amazon.com/Fellowes-Binding-Machine-Star-5006501/dp/B008WJYMTQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1441048322&sr=8-2&keywords=paper+binderand using thesehttp://www.amazon.com/Fellowes-Plastic-Binding-Diameter-52326/dp/B000J07C1G/ref=pd_sim_229_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=10B1263JN2ZW5HFYWQY4&dpSrc=sims&dpST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_I can use blank paper or print graph or lined paper. I can add or remove pages at any time. I can print out PDFs and add them also. I can print out PDFs and insert blank pages into the PDF to take notes on. I can add sections later or remove sections later.You can use clear, color, or thick dark linen type covers. I now use thick color paper as covers so I can write on the cover. I use a label maker to make titles to go on the binder (comb).It lays flat, opens flat, opens like a spiral notebook.Tried this method 20 years ago and every method mentioned since then and went back to the combs (not in Rome).To remove the comb, you hold the edge and pull. This machine really can only punch 6 pages easy, so it takes some time to put together a large PDF manual like the Rigol ones.I have found this to be cheaper than buying books. (finding good PDFs and binding them)

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 08:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: hammy on August 31, 2015, 07:02:09 pmYup, and these actually do. The hardbound volumes are a pain that way.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 09:38:16 pm
content: Another hint: Get some really good pens. Without fading over time.The "Gelly Roll Pens" from Sakura are really good. A lot of colours (I'm used to draw my circuits with several colours) and also resistant against water, UV light and some other liquids. No fading at all.I'm sure there are some other brands out there. However, a normal ballpen will do the job.Cheershammy

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 09:39:43 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 31, 2015, 08:13:34 pmYup, a lot of them. Hard to find the right one.

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 10:01:29 pm
content: My first job as an engineer, the corporate office issued us fancy custom engineering lab notebooks with features like this:The notebooks were serialized and logged. The pages were non removable and stamped with page numbers. There was a signature section on the bottom for your signature and a witness signature. The idea was you were supposed to log everything in the notebook and if you had a patent-able idea to have a witness sign and date it so it could be used as evidence in court if necessary.Anybody else had this experience? I haven't worked at a company in the past twenty years that did this.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 10:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on August 31, 2015, 10:01:29 pmI think there are still companies with a disciplined methodology for engineering logs, but since US patent law changed from a "first to invent" to a "first to file" system, the emphasis has declined.There are still excellent reasons for maintaining engineering notebooks, however. I do it just for myself. It can really bail you out of a jam when questions arise.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 10:39:26 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on August 31, 2015, 10:01:29 pmYes. When I was in the industrial coatings business (basically formulating paint), one place I worked at (about 12 years ago) issued notebooks exactly like that to all the lab people. The company didn't strictly enforce the signing/witnessing/dating stuff. I think that pretty much depended on what your actual job was. Some people did real R&D, others did mostly customer service work. I think it was mainly just record keeping, since once you filled one up it was put into storage. Before switching to those bound books it was just spiral notebooks and before that, composition books. They had old books in storage going back to the 1940s.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2015, 11:07:31 pm
content: yall are on some next level shit, i would go fucking bananas if I had to deal with something like that. i have a natural encryption algorithm built into my brain that pisses other people off when they try to decyper my "notes"having a notebook like that makes it alot easier to fire you too. I think also your memory slips up if you write everything down, its like weight lifting you gotta keep doing it to stay in shape

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2015, 12:44:58 am
content: Quote from: sarepairman2 on August 31, 2015, 11:07:31 pmMaybe it's a double edged sword, though I don't recall anyone ever being terminated over what was or wasn't in their lab note book at any place I worked. On the other hand, one year I received a 45% salary increase which was primarily justified by my notebook records of what I had contributed over the previous 3 years.During my 25 years in that business, having a written record of everything I'd done since starting saved uncountable hours of work. There's no way I could have remembered it all. I doubt many could.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2015, 02:53:33 am
content: Quote from: sarepairman2 on August 31, 2015, 11:07:31 pmA notebook showing one did her/his due diligence as part of the engineering process is NOT cause for termination. All jobs are essentially at-will in the US so one can be fired for any time, for any reason, lawful or not. The question is: will an attorney be able to recover damages via the courts? At least if one has records, there is some very compelling evidence for your attorney if the cause was not lawful.Keeping secrets about your work from your employer, however, is grounds for termination with extreme prejudice.And as for from memory, that is about the worst record keeping device there is. If you end up in court, you can well be discussing events from a decade past. If you're an honest person, those notebooks will be gold. By the way, you can end up being deposed as a witness involuntarily, testifying in court, or talking to the government by just being in the wrong company at the wrong time. Those notebooks will still help. Forget about recovering your emails off the company servers. You would be amazed at what records companies are permitted *not* to produce during discovery.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2015, 03:49:37 am
content: fun fact:This is Grace Hopper's notebook entry documenting the first "bug" found in a computer program. A moth stuck in the relays.She took the moth, and taped it to her notebook.

author: broz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 31, 2015, 03:08:23 pmI was using one of these, had no "real" complaints, but decided to switch mostly due tohttps://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/General_Engineering_Introduction/Notebooks/Writing_Pattern. Because of this, I just ordered two of these:http://www.amazon.ca/VELA-Engineer-Laboratory-Hardcover-Optimized/dp/B00HCO6TBQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=office&ie=UTF8&qid=1456246183&sr=1-1&keywords=VELA+Laboratory+NotebookQuote from: hammy on August 31, 2015, 09:38:16 pmLike you, I like to color code my notebook, but I find the gel pens smear with my sweaty hands too much, because of this, I've gone to the Sharpie fine tipped permanent felt-tip pens.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:46:36 pm
content: Another high quality notebook. I have used one hard for 3 years and it is still in good condition. I sit, step, sleep, hit, swat, with and on it.No grid lines, just lines in what I would call college rule. Comes in several colors.http://www.amazon.com/C-R-Gibson-Large-Leatherette-Journals/dp/B00X0X3I1W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_229_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41lnRXN2ODL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=09J9TF08Z80NTB1KGTYK

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:59:43 pm
content: I've never been too picky about notebooks for my own personal use. Whatever I can find cheap as long as it's grid type. For writing though, it has to be uni-ball Vision Elite (with blue-black ink only), and pencils must be Ticonderoga #2 (HB).

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 08:36:18 pm
content: Because of tradition, and because "math, science, and engineering are pencil sports," may I present unto you the Alvin Draftmatic.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 09:13:44 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on February 23, 2016, 08:36:18 pmGood defensive weapon, or in my case a good stab in the leg ha haI like retractable mechanical pencils, but they are rare as hen's teeth.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 01:49:35 am
content: Quote from: broz on February 23, 2016, 04:52:45 pmUni-Ball Roller Ball, not as smeary as gel but smoother than a plain old ball point. The original roller in the plan black body is the best. Look for the box with the 4 colors, black, blue, red, green.

author: savril
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 02:20:34 am
content: The best notebook I have found is ... a Tablet PC with Microsoft OneNote. I've used a HP 2730p for several years and that have nearly changed my life for note taking.This kind of PC can be used as a tablet and has a pressure sensitive pen. . You can take notes and organize them hierarchically, that's very useful when working on several projects at once and keep the notes organized by projects rather than by date. This kind of classification make it easy to retrieve a bunch of information.But the killer feature is that there is an OCR that index all your notes, so that you can google your own notes. The OCR is not perfect but I write like a doctor and it can decipher more than 90% of it.This is useful to retrieve the note that you wrote about your stupid boss decision, when 3 month later your boss try to get the blame on you. That is gold for me, I use it like an external memory.You can have any sheet background you like square 5x5 mm, lines of 7 or 10mm, your custom background, ... So you use it like you would use a paper notebook (12" screens are preferred because they are close to A4 format). The drawback is the resolution of the screen that is not as precise as you could use a paper for sketching but it is good enough for writing. Some newer PC tablets have a retina like display which should correct the problem.Another feature is that whatever the number of notes you take, it will always weight the same. And you can carry any other document in the same weight. I had a colleague who only worked on paper, he had to carry more kilos of documents than my laptop (2,5 kg) at each meeting...I have not used it for the past 2 years because 90% of my notes were list of todo that I would trash as they get done. But If my next job is more about real engineering, I would buy something like a MS Surface.The biggest problem that can happen is being out of battery. But nowadays x86 tablets use ultrabook like processors which extend greatly the autonomy, enough for more than half a day and you can let it recharge at lunch.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 02:29:45 am
content: I saw a tabletish system that had a pad of paper on one side where you wrote with a normal pen and a digitizer under it captured what you wrote, I wouldn't mind trying something like that.I've lost too much data over the years to Microsoft products to ever trust any again so no onenote for me, Using LibreOffice on my tablet now and I'll just scan paper and paste it in when I need to.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 02:57:24 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 23, 2016, 09:13:44 pmEver since I discovered the mechanical pencil it's been my favorite writing instrument. I seemed to always lose mine over breaks in college so I was always buying new packs. Sometimes when I randomly dig in an old box in storage I find one or two of them.

author: broz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 02:58:48 am
content: Quote from: eugenenine on February 24, 2016, 01:49:35 amI'll definitely look into those, thanks!

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 03:32:20 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on February 24, 2016, 02:57:24 amI finally lost the one I had from college waay long ago. The Alvin, despite its faults, is so ingrained into me as The Pencil, that I bought several just to have a stock to carry me through to retirement. It's strange how we get hooked on certain things.Now I'm going to have to try those Uni-Ball pens to see how the other half lives.=======As for the e-notes, I'm still waiting for a solution that's seamless and stable enough to stick with.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 03:40:32 am
content: My favorite mechanical pencil:http://www.amazon.com/Pentel-Twist-Erase-Automatic-Assorted-QE519BP2-K6/dp/B0047CP6SII think once you try it you will never use another pencil.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 03:56:04 am
content: I believe I have one of those here somewhere. But I think a .7mm. I actually prefer .5mm, my handwriting is so horrible that the finer the line, the more likely you can read it. Typewriters, then word processors, and CAD are like a godsend to me. Drawing up lab reports - only way I could make any lettering legible was to print very slowly and carefully - the graph paper lines helped a lot.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 04:04:05 am
content: I really like the 0.9 mm, the lead is thick enough to press on without it snapping or digging into the paper like a needle point.Fineness of line is not a problem because you turn the pencil in your hand so you are always writing with a fresh edge and not the flat part of the lead (just as you do with a wooden pencil).

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:30:22 am
content: Quote from: fivefish on September 01, 2015, 03:49:37 am[pedant mode]Firstactualbug. That would seem to imply that the term "bug" was in use in that context before she made that note and this was just the earliest known documented use of it.[/pedant mode]

author: broz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:47:23 pm
content: For all the mechanical pencil aficionados out there...http://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-Mars-Technical-Mechanical-Pencil/dp/B000YQEFGU, but make sure you get the sharpener too. Best pencil I've ever used!

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:57:13 pm
content: That or a similar Staedtler were the ones I used all through college. Something about German precision instruments...

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:21:17 pm
content: I do a combined approach. For general note taking I prefer to use pencil and paper on a simple engineering pad.http://www.amazon.com/Roaring-Spring-Engineering-Inches-Sheets/dp/B002HICQW8/ref=sr_1_3?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1456341495&sr=1-3&keywords=engineering+paperHowever, everything of note gets logged in detail using OneNote. I start the day off with a short to-do list and break out everything I work on into projects. Diligent notes has saved my butt numerous times. It's very difficult to remember the specifics of what you did on a project a couple weeks ago. But the more detailed the notes, the easier it is to find out how you designed something and why you did it that way.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:42:18 pm
content: Rotring pencils are really nice the 800 has a retractable tip so you don't break it if it drops.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:00:59 pm
content: Quote from: ECEdesign on February 24, 2016, 07:42:18 pmBut does it have a fall sensor so it can retract its self if you drop it while writing :p

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:33:04 pm
content: Quote from: ECEdesign on February 24, 2016, 07:42:18 pmAnd if $60 is too much to spend on a pencil, the rOtring 600 writes equally well for around $30; just without the retractable tip. (I keep mine on my desk; I wouldn't recommend carrying a 600 in your pocket or backpack.)You can pry mine out of my cold dead hands.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:19:39 am
content: For my personal purposes, nowadays I use a standalone wiki, e.g. MoinMoinWiki or TiddlyWiki.No bad handwriting, insertable cross-references, but no arbitrary diagrams and maybe a bit slower.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:34:35 am
content: Quote from: broz on February 23, 2016, 04:52:45 pmThose VELA notebooks look great. I just ordered one of the W3 Advanced Engineering ones (same as the one you linked, only spiral bound, which I think I may prefer as it should be easier to scan).I also like to use Sharpie Fine Tips for color coding schematics and annotation, but they tend to want to bleed through paper. Do you notice any bleed through when using a Sharpie Fine on your VELA book? (I.e., Can you write on both sides of a page?)---For personal notes, despite having an iPhone/iPad/Mac, I've been in love with these little Field Notes pocket notebooks:http://fieldnotesbrand.comI've been carrying one with me everywhere I go for about 5 years now. I use it for everything from shopping lists, to jotting down ideas to circuit diagrams.About two years ago they released a fully waterproof version, made with polypropylene paper. Combined with a Space Pen, you can write on them upside down and under water. How cool is that?http://fieldnotesbrand.com/colors/expedition/

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:39:16 am
content: I fiddled with wikis for a while and I think I checked most of them.The only one that supports sortable lists out of the box is Mediawiki but it has no graphical editor. So you have to learn yet another markup language. Even after you learn the language it is still too fiddly.All the other wikis are too rudimentary and there isn't nearly as much code and polish in them. Fine if you only care about plain text and a picture but that is better done with a text editor anyway.Data you put in a wiki is not exactly portable any more. Switching to another wiki or to another system is pain in the neck. The files and the structure is hard to check with normal file management tools, backup is hard.You need to run a server all the time. I hate programs that run in the background all the time. The fan of my laptop starting to spin fast for no apparent reason is driving me crazy.Overall 5/10, not for everyone.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:59:15 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 25, 2016, 12:39:16 amNot for the wikis I quoted. In particular TiddlyWiki is a single file that "runs" in your browser.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:15:50 am
content: Anyone ever try any kind of mind mapping, new guy at work is using a package, example:http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:35:28 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 12:34:35 amHow would these compare with Moleskine notebooks? They seem pretty similar in concept.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:44:49 am
content: Quote from: hammy on August 31, 2015, 09:38:16 pmOn the subject of pens, nobody has mentioned fountain pens. Not only do you get a different and more comfortable writing experience (ball pens are too slippery and felt tip pens too scratchy), but you also get access to a complete writing system with interchangeable parts. You can change nibs and inks and use any ink you like with your preferred pen. There is an infinite variety of shades and properties to choose from, from pale to intense, from washable to permanent, in any colour you can imagine.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:00:23 am
content: I've just started deciding I need to be more diligent about notetaking on my hobby electronics projects. I have spun up a Redmine instance to that effect. I don't think it's quite in the spirit of engineering notetaking, but it certainly helps with keeping track of what has been done, what was encountered, and any issues that come up along the way that need to be dealt with in the future.I really should have a proper notebook for sketching ideas. Many things sit on the whiteboard or in DaveCad unimplemented and then get lost.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:03:56 am
content: Another option too is engineering sheets which can just go in a 3 ring binder. I have thesehttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042RU1L0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00in a zipper binder with my pens and HP48SX and a couple rulers.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:55:18 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 12:34:35 am+1 for coloured pens, I'd be lost without them. Not tried sharpie fine tips, but can recommend these for not bleeding.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 03:56:46 am
content: QuoteI added some to my cart:http://www.amazon.com/Field-Notes-Kraft-Ruled-3-Pack/dp/B0034KDEMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456365317&sr=8-1&keywords=field+notes+notebookthanks

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 25, 2016, 03:56:46 amAwesome! Let me know how you like them. I didn't realize they were on Amazon now. I might have to grab a pack of those orange, waterproof Expedition versions.Quote from: IanB on February 25, 2016, 01:35:28 amI used to carry a small Moleskine, but switched to the Field Notes for a few reasons. Mainly, they're thinner (though, less pages) and the paper is better quality. I also had problems with the Moleskine's cover coming unglued (three separate books over a 3 year period) but that may just be bad luck on my part.The Field Notes books are held together with three staples, which may seem cheap but I've never had one fall apart. (I used to walk around with one in the pouch of my cargo pants when I worked in an industrial setting about 5 years ago, they took a ton of abuse and never fell apart; I even drove over one with a forklift several times by accident.)I keep a personal one with me wherever I go I use for notes and lists (lasts about 3 months), then I file it away on the shelf.I also keep one per active electronics project, to keep at the bench to quickly log results, draw schematics as I breadboard, etc.Then I've got a set dedicated to vintage gear restoration; I keep track of wiring color codes, what screws go where, error codes, voltages at various points and so on. One book for Tek, one for HP, one for Power Designs, and so forth. (I use those little colored flags you stick on pages in binders to make separate sections in each book, delineating Scopes, Power Supplies, DMM, etc.) They're like little mini repair guides.Basically, they're small, thin, inexpensive, durable little notebooks. Plus, they're made in the US with US sourced materials. (I'm not generally the "I BUY ONLY 'MERICAN!" type, but I *do* like to support small local businesses.)

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 03:22:26 pm
content: So how does anyone 'back up' their paper notes? I lost a notebook when I was in school and lost a month or so of work. I went all electronic from that point even though I am faster on paper. I scanned all my paper notes from that point forward, Just trying to find a happy medium.

author: broz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 04:43:25 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 12:34:35 amFirstly, my apologies for quoting a long, multi-layered quote, but I'm not quite confident enough yet to remove some parts but not others without making it look like a mess...To answer your question, the VELA notebook has decently thick pages and I have yet to notice significant bleed-through. The only time I have noticed any bleed-through (very very minor) is when I draw the occasional circuit diagram, mostly on the nodes, arrows, or things of the like. But this bleed-through is definitely not enough to dissuade someone from writing on both sides: I most definitely do. Here is an image of the worst bleed-though I've experienced yet, both the front side, and back...hopefully that helps to clarify, but like I said...minor.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 07:10:11 pm
content: I'm just checking some of my old notes and it seems like ink based pens (ball point, pilot, ink) are bleeding trough 80gr paper while glycerin based 'Gel' inks are not. Also they seem to have nice lubricity compared to ordinary ball point. The pen used was Uni-Ball Signo 0.7 in varios colors. Cheap and cheerful.So that settles it for me.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:11:54 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on February 25, 2016, 03:22:26 pmI use an app called Scanner Pro by Readdle. You open it, snap a picture of each page (or select existing photos from your library) and it does some magic trying to automatically detect the page borders (you can drag the selection if it's off) and then it automatically deskews, crops and processes the image and spits out a PDF. The end result looks like a 150-300 DPI (depending on lighting and camera quality) scan from a document scanner.When I'm done working for the day, I try to snap a scan of each new finished page in my notebook (then I add a mark to the page letting me know I've archived it).The other neat thing is that scanner app can integrate with Dropbox, iCloud, etc. Each scanned page (or pages) gets uploaded as a PDF, which my main laptop picks up and merges into a single master PDF, automatically! So by the time I've finished with a notebook, I should have a complete PDF as well.Quote from: broz on February 25, 2016, 04:43:25 pmOh, wow, I can barely see that. That's no problem at all! The last paper I used was so bad, I actually had to stick *two sheets* of printer paper behind it, just to catch the ink that soaked through. So yeah, I think I'll be happy with that.Edit: Nice little current sink mirror you have there! I've been working on something similar with a set of MAT01 dual matched NPNs.

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:48:58 pm
content: I just started using an A5 sized notebook with blank pages, it works out really well. I also like to use a big sheet (A2 or so) just lying on my desk as a pad, so that I can always scribble on it ( If you need a new one, it is quite difficult to archive it, but the good thing about it, it is always exactly where you most likely need it.I'm also thinking about mounting a blackboard somewhere in my room, just for the temporary stuff...If you are not at your desk, I would recommend a small notebook, which can easily fit in a full bag (http://www.amazon.com/MUJI-Notebook-6mm-Ruled-30sheets/dp/B00IQV3MZK/). Or an app on your phone, which can make simple text files (I use a ongoing list about everything...quite a mess, but still useful). The multi-window function (android, samsung s5) can really help with thatBTW: Thanks for starting this really interesting topicEdit: We must not forget Bob Pease's lab book from 2005:http://www.ti.com/ww/en/bobpease/assets/bob_pease_lab_notes_2005.pdf

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:20:38 pm
content: Wacom Bamboo Spark is really cool. Too bad I forgot how to actually write...

author: broz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:47:58 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 08:11:54 pmTwo pages?? That's crazy! This notebook is nowhere near that, it's actually one of the best ones I've ever used!And thanks! It's for a school lab so I won't be able to disclose too much about it, but I'm using a quad npn IC, so for stability I opted to make use of all of them (in order to reduce power dissipated by any one BJT) in the "modified" Wilson configuration

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 03:16:57 am
content: I'm now using Onenote.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 03:23:23 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on February 26, 2016, 03:16:57 amI might have been tempted but thankfully it doesn't work in Linux. I actually tried running it in Wine, no hope.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:04:37 am
content: Quote from: broz on February 26, 2016, 02:47:58 amYeah, it seems like the bleed through was in little dots, I guess where I press the pen into the paper before I start moving it. Still annoying.Anyway, my VELA book should be here today from Amazon, can't wait to test it!Re: Current MirrorsDual and quad packages are the only way to go IMO. Otherwise the offset and tempco won't be very well matched. You know, it's really surprising to me there are more current reference/source/sink/mirror ICs out there. I mean, that's a basic building block of most analog ICs, right? So you'd think there would be a lot of options... But the REF200 is basically the only dedicated current source/sink/mirror chip on the market.By the way, there's a great book on the subject: Current Sources and Voltages References by Linden T Harrison. It covers the history, theory, design and has a bunch of practical circuits in it. I highly recommend it if you're working on a design. (It's floating around on the web as a PDF.)Sorry for the tangent, current mirrors are something I've been working with a lot lately for a project, so when I saw your schematic, I had to mention it.

author: broz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:10:57 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 26, 2016, 11:04:37 amAwesome, I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mineIt is curious that there isn't more dedicated ICs for current mirrors, but perhaps its simply because a quad pack transistor IC can be easily implemented in a wide variety of configurations vs only a single configuration per dedicated current mirror IC; but hey, I could be wrong...I'll definitely check out that book, thanks!

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 04:20:01 am
content: Replying to an old topic, Does everyone keep a separate notebook for each project or one big notebook for multiple projects and simply 'tag' each page with the project your working on?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 06:26:32 am
content: I use composition books as they're really inexpensive and they're available very much anywhere if you need one. I number the pages. If I make a mistake I elegantly cross it so I can see the errors. I never tear a page out. I like mechanical pencils. My preference is 0.5mm. I have a large collection of them: Rotring, Pilot, Faber Castell, Staedtler, etc. I used to like to write with Parker fountain pens but this days I mainly use Pilot Precise V5 RT.People change and so are the preferences. I have a tablet but I could never get used to the note taking process. There is no friction like feeling rubbing a plastic pencil on a glass. Tablets can get dropped from a desk cluttered with parts, pcbs, protoboards, equipment, and cables going all over the place. Most of the ideas presented in the thread are valid. If I work for a company I don't mind if they buy me a fancier Engineering notebook but at home for my hobby a composition book is fine.

author: basinstreetdesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 07:21:40 am
content: I have always tried to get engineers to keep daily notes on their project (not always with success). It has happened in my career that answering the question "Why did we make this decision?" was only possible by looking up what happened in the notes. It has also provided essential hind-quarter protection.I considered using lab notebooks back in the '80s but taping/pasting/stapling in the usual collection of loose datasheets/faxes/photos, etc became unworkable since the book was hardbound. I eventually abandoned the idea in favour of loose-leaf binders. Then I could divide the binder into several general sections for block design, detailed design, pcb layout, debugging, parts ref, SW, mech design, etc. Standard equipment in my binder is a 3-hole punch.Also what do you do if you want to insert new pages into the middle of something in a lab notebook? Do you number the new pages 12 1/2, 12 3/4...?I always write in good old 0.5 mm HB.I have done it this way for over 30 years now ever since I got it through my thick skull to keep notes at all. I try to make notes almost every day on what problems I had and how I solved them.The binders take up more shelf space than lab books but I dont care.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 09:34:28 am
content: Laboratorybooks should be hardbound with each page numbered, so that pages can be neither inserted nor removed. That enables them to be used as evidence in a court of law, which can be vital when assigning patent priority.It is less critical withworkshopbooks, with the possible exception of them being used as evidence in injury/damage lawsuits.With either, using pencil will instantly negate those benefits.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 08:30:25 pm
content: I totally switched to OneNote a few years ago. The main reason is completeness of thought processes, being able to copy schematics, pdfs, code snippets and photos into a notebook on the fly from my pc, phone and tablet makes my documentation about as complete as it could be. Any engineer could pick up where I left off, which is important for me as a essentially a sole operator...if I got killed in an accident my (and my clients) IP is recoverable.I mentally still prefer paper... but it's simply not as practical or efficient when your working on a PC the majority of the time.

author: J_Brown
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 06:00:13 pm
content: Fully agree with you, OneNote is great! I use web version to write down all necessary information and mobile app to read it when it is necessary.At the same time, such paperless thing are good for work-related notes, but for other thoughts usual paper notebooks seems to be better. For example, I use such simple notebook like No.5 hereinhttps://onplanners.com/notebooks/best-pocket-notebooksmost for its "crafted" style - looks fine even after carrying it each day. As for me, we even think another way when use paper notebook and pencil

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 08:59:33 pm
content: Have Onenote at work. The problem with it is remembering to copy/paste all your notes into something else.

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 01:22:37 pm
content: +1 for OneNote.I keep a paper engineering notebook for times when I must use paper, but important things I will transcribe to OneNote anyway.For me, there are few pluses to paper notes these days, and having instantly shareable and searchable records is far more valuable.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 01:52:18 pm
content: Quote from: BillB on February 24, 2019, 01:22:37 pmAlso, OneNote is also available for stylus-operated devices like my Samsung Galaxy Tab S3. Being able to quickly jot something down on my tablet and then view/edit/augment it further on any other device, makes pen and paper completely redundant for me.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 05:23:57 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on August 31, 2015, 10:01:29 pmIt's still done, particularly in the tech industries. Probably it is most notable in the semiconductor business where patents tend to be important.https://westcampus.scusd.edu/sites/main/files/file-attachments/engineeringnotebook.pdfFor a hobbyist, these notebooks might be useful but they don't have a search feature. I tend to keep my project stuff on a file server. Datasheets, code, notes, drawings, CAD/CAM/Mach3 files, pretty much everything. OTOH, I am not extending the art.