The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition (Improved) Amazon Fake - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 12:31:47 am
content: Howdy all!This is my first post, and I hope this helps someone that's curious about this book. The Authors site talks about the counterfeit issue, and lists things to look for. They also include safe places to buy the book. Well, I received my copy from Amazon today, which was Sold / Shipped by Amazon, however mine is a fake. They mentioned Amazon sellers were the main issue, but it seems that's spilled over to Amazon itself. After setting up the return, I bought a copy from the Book Depository, hopefully that will be the end of it.Side note, I'm actually a little happy about it. I've used Amazon since 2005, and it's not the same place anymore. I try my best to stay clear of them when possible

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 01:13:42 am
content: Sad to hear about the situation. I hope you get your refund quick. Did you explain the situation regarding the copy being counterfeit and stressed that part enough, and one can hope Amazon will kick the seller out of the platform? I am aware that the void will be filled back soon, but for some time there will be a reduced chance of people getting scammed.Note that Book Depository is a brand of Amazon. So you did not quit using Amazon, but only limited your buying options. What one can see in their webapp is a filtered view of Amazon’s offers.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 01:21:39 am
content: https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/Link to the listing you bought it from?

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 02:35:14 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 08, 2023, 01:21:39 amI just searched on Amazon and pulled up the listing. I made sure that I bought the one that stated Sold and Shipped by Amazon, which is why I'm surprised about it.Here's the link to the product page I used on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521809266?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_detailsI bought it yesterday, showed up today.

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 02:40:55 am
content: Quote from: golden_labels on March 08, 2023, 01:13:42 amWell crap, that sucks. I didn't know they were linked with Amazon. When setting up the return I put an explanation of what happened, and I took pictures just in case there was any doubt. There is no seller to point out, this was Sold and Shipped by Amazon. I'm not sure where they get their copies, but fakes made it into inventory. That was the purpose of the post, to let others know Amazon itself isn't a sure thing for this book anymore. Making me think about stopping the order from Book Depository now, not because of the fact Amazon would still get money from me, just for the fact I might get another bad copy. Thanks for the heads up on thatEdit: Fixed a typo and re-worded one part to eliminate confusion.

author: TomWinTejas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 03:41:38 am
content: This is a big problem with Amazon... if a SKU is sold by Amazon and other sellers they will mix the inventory in a single bin. So while you'd expect a genuine book/battery/sdcard/etc because it's sold by a seemingly reputable dealer, you get screwed by the fraudulent ones. Mouser and Best Buy have gotten a lot more of my business because of Amazon's bad business practice.

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 03:57:02 am
content: What's the exact significant differences between a genuine and a counterfeit copy in actual content anyway?

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 04:21:29 am
content: Quote from: SuzyC on March 08, 2023, 03:57:02 amDid you ever make a copy of a cassette tape by hitting play on one boombox and recording on another? Generational degradation and poor quality. The authors describe some of the differences here:https://artofelectronics.net/the-book/counterfeit-editions/The really weird thing is that somehow they lost all the ligatures so "fi" combinationshave disappeared. Author is now "Wineld Hill".

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 05:41:11 am
content: Quote from: SuzyC on March 08, 2023, 03:57:02 amSignificant differences? With counterfeits you never have a guarantee of the copy even being complete? One may wish to support the author financially? One may be obligated to have a physical, authorized copy by the techer?

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 09:21:47 am
content: It has been a long time since I have been in a classroom, but are teachers/professors now inspecting the books the students are studying from? And where? Colleges? Trade schools? High schools?The college and high school that I attended had their own book shops. You ordered the books for your course and they procured them and collected the cost. I assume they purchased from reputable printers. Of course, that was some years ago when no one even imagined the internet, much less Amazon.Quote from: golden_labels on March 08, 2023, 05:41:11 am

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 12:06:27 pm
content: I bought a text book from Amazon a few years ago. It was new, not used and I'm pretty sure it was shipped and sold by Amazon but maybe not. On the cover was an odd yellow sticker, so I peeled it off. Underneath it said:Indian EditionFor Sale in India onlyYou just never know what you're gonna get from them these days.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 12:24:24 pm
content: This is the only thing I consider "ships and sold by amazon." (attached) "Amazon Services" and "Amazon Warehouse" are not Amazon despite sharing part of the name.Aa for buying counterfeit or downloading "free" copyrighted materials that probably violate the copyright, that's up to the individual. If it's late at night and there's a stop sign, do you still stop if you don't see any traffic around? I do, a lot of people don't. When the inevitable accident occurs, they lie about stopping, etc. That's a personal choice.

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 02:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: SuzyC on March 08, 2023, 05:19:11 amI prefer to support the authors, and I prefer books. Books don't run out of batteries.

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 02:11:18 pm
content: Quote from: TomWinTejas on March 08, 2023, 03:41:38 amThat's exactly why I stay away from Amazon when possible. In recent years I've had more bad luck than good.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 03:52:20 pm
content: Quote from: BigBeard on March 08, 2023, 02:40:55 amI want to be clear here: Book Depository is still a subset of Amazon’s offers. Your purchase doesn’t involve other sellers, which are likely the source of the counterfeit copy.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 03:59:52 pm
content: So, any ideas of where to purchase a legitimate copy?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 04:10:46 pm
content: Quote from: TomWinTejas on March 08, 2023, 03:41:38 amReally doubt. Seller items come with their own ASIN barcode sticker while Amazon own stock in plain manufacturer package with no additional barcodes. This may well be someone bought a genuine one and then returned counterfeit garbage which was then put back in stock.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 05:16:00 pm
content: @ wraperMy thought exactly. Amazon's liberal return policy probably gets abused a lot (i.e., buy used elsewhere, buy new AMZ, return used AMZ). Amazon Warehouse is apparently one of its sellers for returned merchandise.Another ruse is "gifting" eBay purchases thought AMZ. That happened a lot a few years ago. I haven't seen it recently, but I am more careful checking eBay prices v. Amazon prices.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 11:43:02 pm
content: Quote from: BigBeard on March 08, 2023, 02:35:14 amI just looked at the link that you provided and it doesn't say "Sold and Shipped by Amazon". It says "Rented from an Amazon Warehouse" and "Fulfilled by Amazon". That tells me that someone else is probably supplying the item and renting space from Amazon and is letting Amazon handle the shipping and delivery.Further down the page is an option to buy the same book from Amazon and have it shipped by Amazon but the price is $105. The statement at the top RH of page that the item that you can bought can be returned at the end of the semester should have also been a giant red flag that the book you were going to get is probably used and out of date.Words have meaning!Cut and Paste and portions highlighted:Rent$52.50List Price: $105.00Save: $52.50 (50%)Due Date: Jun 25, 2023 Rental DetailsFREE return shipping at the end of the semester.Access codes and supplements are not guaranteed with rentals.In Stock.Rented from Amazon WarehouseFulfilled by AmazonFREE Prime delivery Monday, March 13Deliver to **********Add to CartBuy new:$105.00One-DayFREE delivery: TomorrowShips from: Amazon.comSold by: Amazon.comBuy used:$90.74Add to ListHave one to sell?Sell on AmazonOther Sellers on AmazonAdd to Cart$117.95& FREE ShippingSold by: Publisher DirectAdd to Cart$135.06& FREE ShippingSold by: agreenhippo1Amazon book clubs early accessAdd to book clubNot in a club? Learn moreSee all 4 imagesFollow the AuthorsSee allWinfield HillPaul HorowitzThe Art of Electronics 3rd Edition

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 11:51:51 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on March 08, 2023, 03:59:52 pmFromAmazonbut read the listing first! The publisher also probably sells directly. E-Greed probably also has legitimate used copies and possibly new, unused copies (but beware of the "reproductions"!)I buy between 6 and 10 books per week and I ALWAYS look at the title page to see what version it is and who theactualpublisher is! Most of the reproduction books arejunk!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 12:07:53 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 08, 2023, 11:43:02 pmNo OP did pay $105, which is the price for a new hardcover copy, its just the amazon page being confusing.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 12:16:11 am
content: I once bought a "grey market" book, if that is the right word from a dealer on Amazon that was advertised as "new.". The key was that the copyright page had been carefully removed from the binding. Rest of the book was like new. I contacted the seller, and it gave me an additional discount.That was in the day when there were brick and mortar bookstores. As I understand it, those dealers received a shipment of books on consignment from a publisher. When they didn't sell, rather than pay hefty return shipping fees, the publisher would allow the retail store to remove that page, send it back to the publisher, and the store would presumably destroy the book. Which of course, led to resale of the book as new by whoever got it very cheaply from the bookstore.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 04:20:04 am
content: Quote from: aeberbach on March 08, 2023, 04:21:29 amI guess these are coming from "print on demand" services where no one even looks at the product, and they automatically print and bind as many as are ordered from some PDFs they have, and the machines are in barely working order.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 09:07:36 am
content: Wow, that price... I believe it was cheaper when was released. Who remembers the original price? My bet it was $75 or less.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 10:10:17 am
content: In 2015, I paid AMZ $103.80 (including tax) for my copy of the 3rd edition. Second edition, which I still go to, was a lot less.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 10:18:10 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 09, 2023, 10:10:17 amHmm, I paid €75 in March 2015 from amazon.de

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 10:50:14 am
content: But do not compare nominal value of 2015 $ and € to 2023.SuzyC: thank you for removing the link. One may have different opinions about unauthorized copies & co., but blatanly posting the link on a public forum like EEVblog is both causing trouble to Dave and disservice to Internet Archive.

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 02:04:21 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 08, 2023, 11:43:02 pmWhen I click the link I posted here, (same link in your quote) I don't see a rent option, or Amazon Warehouse... only Ships and Sold by Amazon.See attached Pic. You may see those as options, but it doesn't mean everyone does.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 10:46:15 am
content: Quote from: SuzyC on March 08, 2023, 03:57:02 amThe genuine copy actually contains a royalty to the authors.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 10:52:26 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 14, 2023, 10:46:15 amAlso it's better quality and does not contain OCR errors.

author: LinuxHata
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 11:10:34 am
content: Well I decided to post here, since I have bought this book, official edition, in India, for far less price than it is sold on Amazon, but someone already mentioned that.So no stranger that someone are reselling the Indian version on Amazon. And no, Indian version is not fake, it is just printed for the different market.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 11:14:56 am
content: From the US DOJ:QuoteYes, it can be sold if legally bought elsewhere and resold; however, I suspect it must be sold as "used, like new," as you are not an authorized reseller.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 01:13:35 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 14, 2023, 11:14:56 amDo you realize that the vast majority of goods are sold by non authorized resellers? Goods do not suddenly become used if manufacturer, publisher or whoever did not authorize particular reseller.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 01:20:11 pm
content: An item becomes "used" in the US (which was the scenario) when first sold to a non-authorized reseller. That applies to books, cars, photographic equipment, and so forth. Try to get warranty service in the US on an international version (i.e., not approved for sale in the US) camera made by Nikon for example. Of course, laws in other countries may be different.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 01:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 14, 2023, 01:20:11 pmThen I guess you bought quite a bit of used parts from Digikey or Mouser.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 01:45:48 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 14, 2023, 01:20:11 pmI think you are mistaking "Used" with "Grey Market" inports...If both items are "NOS" or "New Condition" but are not warranty by the official distributor in the country then it means they are Grey Imports.In the case you explain, that's because Nikon have a division for the US and Canada and an International Division.Cameras for the US and Canada market have their serial no starting with US, International ones don't.International support are not autorize to warrant any US Camera and the opposite.Also cameras bought in countries that are not their distribution market (as Japanese Serial No cameras being sold in Hong Kong) are also not warrant, even if they have a valid warranty and receipt (they check by the serial no allocated per region).

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 04:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 14, 2023, 01:25:26 pmYou guess wrong. From which supplier not in this list do you buy parts at Digikey?https://www.digikey.com/en/supplier-centers?utm_adgroup=General&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=EN_Brand_Digi-Key&utm_term=digi%20key%20corporation&utm_content=General&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrLfUiOfb_QIV5WpvBB2erAxoEAAYASABEgJvIfD_BwE

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 08:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 08, 2023, 04:10:46 pmNope. Stock commingling is a big problem that is well-documented.At least now it appears to be something that is theoretically opt-in for a vendor:https://www.elverconsultancy.co.uk/what-is-amazon-commingling-and-why-would-i-use-it/https://www.redpoints.com/blog/amazon-commingled-inventory-management/https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/amazon-counterfeit-fake-products/A vendor can choose to use special stickers and even individual serialization to ensure no commingling happens. But that comes with its own limitations and costs.What isn't clear is whether Amazon itself participates on a given item. For sure, in the past, they have. For some items, like Apple USB chargers,the problem was so badthat Apple took their products off Amazon entirely until Amazon agreed to allow Apple to vet the vendors of their products:https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/more-apple-products-are-coming-to-amazon-under-a-new-deal.htmlhttps://www.vice.com/en/article/bjexb5/amazon-is-kicking-all-unauthorized-apple-refurbishers-off-the-siteTangentially related, I found this article while searching for the ones above:https://www.geekwire.com/2021/concerns-amazon-apple-removes-product-review-analyzer-fakespot-app-store/Becauseof courseAmazon would fight something that exposes fakes.

author: BigBeard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:07:19 am
content: Finally had a moment to post an update, I've been moving my shop to a larger space. The books (decided to gamble and buy all 3 of the series) from The Book Depository are genuine, and arrived quicker than I anticipated. I also spoke to a rep about the issue I had with Amazon and they were 100% ok if I needed to send them back. One thing that stood out to me right out the box was they were sealed in a plastic wrap where Amazon's were not. That might have no meaning but it's worth noting. One of my sons has a growing interest in electronics and this was well worth the money spent. I've set him up with his own workbench next to mine and I'm thrilled to see him join his pops in the shop

author: bidrohini1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 08:41:37 am
content: Thanks for making us aware.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2024, 05:26:25 am
content: Quote from: rdl on March 08, 2023, 12:06:27 pmThat's the same as the US edition only priced differently. So in the US the publisher will sell a $10 book for $120, in India they'll sell the same book for $15. It's a great way to get outrageously overpriced textbooks for a more reasonable price, just look on eBay for the non-US editions. You're getting the real deal, just not paying the ripoff markup charged to US and European buyers.