Video tutorial on how to make PCB's using Toner Transfer method - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 08:12:50 pm
content: Hi everybody!I made a small video tutorial on how to make your own PCB's using Toner Transfer method.I hope it would be useful for lots of people who just beginning to immerse in electronics design and for those who haven't used this method before.With this method you can easily and repeatedly make tracks as thin as 0.01 inch (0.254mm) and use SMD resistors and caps with size down to 0603 (maybe 0402 if you're a complete maniac). Plus easily use chips in SSOP packages (FT232RL comes in SSOP28 package) and similar.Sorry for little adJust thought it might be useful.P.S. don't forget to watch it in HD.- Phil

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 08:19:16 pm
content: #Invalid YouTube Link#

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 08:26:04 pm
content: Mechatrommer, thx!

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 10:37:33 pm
content: that is quite a bit of soap you used.

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 10:40:30 pm
content: well, it was for the video

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 10:55:16 pm
content: Very nice.I guess you didn't have any single sided copper.

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 11:05:12 pm
content: Quote from: TheDirty on June 06, 2011, 10:55:16 pmThanks! You guessed right.Guys, what you think, should I do another small video on making double-sided PCB's?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2011, 11:49:19 pm
content: what type of glossy paper do you use? thats typical way of doing it. with my gloss type paper bought specifically for this purpose, its very hard to get it transferred esp thin trace.

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 12:01:36 am
content: I use Xerox 3R11430 digital color supreme glosspaper and I have no need to put the board on warm water because only the toner is transfered to the cooper.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 12:12:19 am
content: I use the old Staples photo paper that they unfortunately don't sell anymore.Only leaving the toner on the board is not so great. Toner on its own is not such a great resist, which is why Pulsar sells the Green TRF foil to try to make the toner resist better. I have to soak and brush off the paper, but I get a cleaner etch then when using a full release paper like Pulsar without the Green TRF.Unfortunately with Toner transfer it's an experimentation game to get the best etch and result. The way shown in the video is not the only way (though it's very close to how I do it as well), some people swear by modified laminators to heat the toner onto the board, some people use magazine paper for the toner transfer, different etchants...

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 01:31:44 am
content: as i said, thats typical way of doing it and i mean thats exactly how i do it (different echant). but with claim such as "With this method you can easily and repeatedly make tracks as thin as 0.01 inch (0.254mm)" its very hard for me to believe, without other special technique/material. the hardest part is actually transferring the toner.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 02:04:59 am
content: One note regarding Copper EtchantI always use Ammonium Persulfate, turns blue when it's 'used'. Need to be warm though, so I fill the sink with boiling water then submerge a container filled with AP, then dip the PCB. Clear liquid means I can monitor the pcb without removing it. Another suitable etchant is Sodium Persulfate.I am switching toPeroxy-sulfuricwhen I run out of AP. It is said to beinfinitely replenishableso I don't need to worry about dispensing the acid into the environment.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 02:13:30 am
content: I get 10mil (.001") easily and repeatedly now, but it took a bit of experimenting to get it. I've gone down to 6mil for a couple select boards, only because it was needed by an odd .4mm lead space QFP.I do order boards now from these cheap prototype PCB places, but I still make up quick toner transfer PCB's for breakout boards when needed and it only takes a short time to get one out. I can't see any two week turnaround cheap PCB place replacing the instant gratification of getting something working or figuring out you did something wrong right away.Quote from: phil_jp1 on June 06, 2011, 11:05:12 pmWhat method do you use. I use the pocket method. Line up the two pieces of paper under a light and tape two sides, place the PCB in the middle and iron it. I took some pictures of this method recently, but not really enough to step by step it.

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 05:36:19 am
content: Well, I just finished etching a couple of boards, I didn't need to have very small traces, but I use the same method described.I have used this method for a long time now, tomorrow the drilling, the tining and then ready to assemble.

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 07:39:54 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 06, 2011, 11:49:19 pmI use Lomond glossy inkjet photo paper (120 g/m2 glossy single-sided) - works like a charm )Quote from: DavidDLC on June 07, 2011, 12:01:36 amThat's how I usually do it, but it takes time to learn how to properly do that. I think for tutorial it's better to stick with warm water.Quote from: TheDirty on June 07, 2011, 12:12:19 amFor tutorial iron is ok, 'cuz not much people would buy a laminator right away. Magazine paper - think it's not a good idea. Tried that, but wasn't impressed with a results..Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 07, 2011, 01:31:44 amWith the way I showed in the video - this is really easy to achieve. No special techniques or materials (of course if not count glossy paper as a "special material" and sequence of actions that I showed as "special technique").Quote from: nukie on June 07, 2011, 02:04:59 amAP is much more active than FH. Thus you got much more chances to damage thin' tracks on a board. But of course this is the way to go too.Quote from: TheDirty on June 07, 2011, 02:13:30 amYep! That's exactly how I do it!

author: PedroDiogo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2011, 08:23:22 pm
content: Thanks for your tutorial!Today I followed it and obtained good results, although one thing went wrong. I had my board etched and was drilling the holes when I noticed the scale was all wrong!Friday I'll try again with a few improvements on the board design (the pads were a bit small), print a new copy of the design (printing at 100% scale, this time), and maybe post a few pictures of the new board.

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2011, 08:33:38 pm
content: Glad to help!At first I was making lots of mistakes, but those mistakes brings the best learning experience you could possibly get.

author: PedroDiogo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 01:23:33 am
content: Ok, another update since yesterday.Today I made a new design, printed and transfered it to a copper board. Worked beautifully this time, it seems I haven't applied sufficient heat last time, this time I was able to achieve a pretty good transfer.After that I spent almost an hour (!!) trying to peel off every single piece of paper that got glued to the board with an old toothbrush and window cleaner liquid. Is there any way to make this process quicker?When I got my board all cleaned up, heated the ferric chloride I used yesterday on a water bath and in no time I had a PCB!However I found that using acetone to remove the toner from the copper wires also stained the fiber material of my board, which is nothing more than aesthetics but I would love to see it a little cleaner (), any suggestions on that?Tomorrow I will drill the board, I will have to buy a proper acessory for my Dremel, I already broke 3 drill bits trying to drill the boards with a regular drill!Here's a (crappy) picture of my new board:Also a picture of the board I made yesterday, the toner transfer was not perfect so pieces of the copper got corroded:

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 10:24:24 am
content: Congratulations man! Nicely done, although it's hard to see on those tiny pictures, but anywaysAbout peeling paper: it's all about timing. You need to apply really high pressure to the board, but don't do it too long. In time you'll learn the right amount of time you need to transfer the toner.And about acetone - everything works great for me. Maybe try to add some water to it? (although i don't know will it dissolve) And I recently found out that you can do it much faster with hard side of a kitchen sponge.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 11:37:57 am
content: Quote from: PedroDiogo on July 01, 2011, 01:23:33 amI don't know about using paper, but the blue "press'n'peel" PCB transfer sheets are a lot easier; you literally just have to peel them off after ironing. Alas they're not exactly cheapI don't know what decent inkjet photo paper costs these days, mind you, so it might not bemassivelymore expensive.QuoteGive scouring pads a go, e.g. 3M Scotch-Brite -- they do a splendid job in my (limited) experience. A little elbow grease required but cleans everything up nicely.

author: phil_jp1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 11:46:24 am
content: Quote from: baljemmett on July 01, 2011, 11:37:57 amI use Lomond Single Sided Glossy Photo paper and I peel it off right away after ironing. It's just if someone don't have experience it's better to soak paper in water.But I can't say that this paper is any cheap either.P.S. I haven't tried that blue "press'n'peel" PCB transfer sheets. Need to try it sometime.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 12:19:29 pm
content: Has anyone tried to print the foil with pigment ink? As it is plastic pigment based it should resist etching ok (may need to bake it a while to harden the pigment) multipasses could be used to build up a thick layer if required (My Epson S22 is FRIGHTENLY accurate on registration) I can see lots of advantages to this method ie once the board is etched you could tin it with liquid tin, reprint it with the solder mask and again with the screen print. Could be very professional.

author: PedroDiogo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 01:23:25 pm
content: Quote from: phil_jp1 on July 01, 2011, 10:24:24 amThey really are small, but you get an idea, my phone camera is really bad and larger pictures were terrible, sorry for that.Quote from: baljemmett on July 01, 2011, 11:37:57 amI bought 25 sheets of inkjet photo paper for 6€ at my local Staples store, not expensive considering you can print multiple designs on one sheet of paper. Didn't even know you could buy PCB transfer sheetsI will check next time I go to a electronics store.Quote from: baljemmett on July 01, 2011, 11:37:57 amI will next time, thats a great suggestion

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 02:05:45 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDiogo on July 01, 2011, 01:23:25 pmThe reason you are having a hard time getting the paper off is because the new Staples Photo paper is not very good. The old paper that came in the red and white package was the paper that everyone recommended and I still have some here that I use. The new stuff that came out a while ago is not the same and isn't even close to as nice to use. I would suggest trying other paper or seeing what papers others suggest, Try that thick bond magazine paper that people suggest.

author: nessatse
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 02:23:31 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDiogo on July 01, 2011, 01:23:33 amTry using lacquer thinners instead of acetone. I find it wipes off very clean.