UL and CSA certification. What standards are tested for? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 02:43:41 pm
content: I don't really know where to start. I'd like to have a product (a water heater) UL and CSA listed, but I can't find any information at all regarding what tests will be done to the product. I am guessing it will have to do with grounding and insulation, but I still need to find the exact standards it will be tested against.Any hints?Thanks guys.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:08:46 pm
content: Ask UL, they'll happily sell you a copy of the applicable standard.You may not need CSA as well if you can get a 'cUL' listing.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 02:42:44 am
content: generally you will contact a field office who will ask you about your product and determine which standard it would be lest listed under. You have to be careful about terminology. They are a compliance lab and make it a point that they do not test products for quality or worthiness. Only weather or not they comply with the particular standard. Also they only "List" products as in compliance. They do not "approve" anything.Now that thats out of the way.They will gladly sell you a copy of the standard. Nothing comes for free from them. There are also other testing agencies in the US that are acceptable. ETL and UAPMO come to mind. I know UAPMO is popular for plumbing things.UL generally has a review process that has a rather steep up front cost. Then there are on site inspections typically quarterly where the product is tested and sometimes where it is produced if you are contracting it out and doing the final test at your location. It depends on the type of product. There are maintnence fees associated with the inspections. None of this is cheap outside of Asia. Over there its a pay off bribe kind of thing and off you go. Sometimes they will write a spec standard for you and your product that is really just a puff piece so you can put a UL mark on it. Since most people don't know what standard their application really requires they just look for the mark and thats good enough. I have seen some pretty dodgy applications of seemingly inappropriate standards used in unlikely products because that standard was easier to get and the field office in china can't tell the difference from an alarm system and a set top cable box sort of thing.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 02:48:27 am
content: Thanks Andy, and thanks CalexanianI guess that it is true what you say: these things don't come up cheap.However, I found a lab that's recognized by the NRTL just like UL and they really brand themselves as the sort of honest alternative.http://www.metlabs.com/industries/appliances/They seem specify the standards they test against.Any opinions on this?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 01:46:03 pm
content: Most all the safety organizations follow a harmonized standard by the IEC, so getting one, gets it acceptable to most world markets. Note a very few organizations maybe not recognized. In the USA, to be used in a workplace, it must be listed as NRTL as required by OSHA. OSHA review organizations for 'dodginess' or corrupt practices, as suggested earlier.In Toronto, Canada's largest market it should be ESA acceptable for workplace use, tip "CSA" certification is acceptable throughout the Canadas. ESA does much what OSHA does in the USA.MET Labs is well respected and one of the earliest competitors to UL.Whom should you get? What country is your market? International? Americas, EU? The answer is whomever is oldest and biggest, like Met Labs, and naturally the cost to be listed, UL is one of the most expensive. Much lower cost is ETL Intertek and used often in Asia.The standards have to be purchased. However, if you are certain you wish to be listed you're best bet is after prototype to connect with an agency because they know the pitfalls of design and so you can modify your prototype before you go into production and don't bother buying the standards, just deal with the agency, they may give you a copy as a freebie.Note, for sale to consumers, safety listing in the USA is not required.Average cost for listing, about $US5000-10000 then with annual fee of about $2000.If you are new to production, it may pay to get a third party agency review of the design. For example, Dragon, they'll do everything, from setting a design for production as well as tie up with any needed certification:https://dragoninnovation.com/projects/34-mooshimeterMooshimeter's experience is a good case study of taking something from the lab to production and they tried to document much of their experience on line, including getting their start up funding via crowd sourcing.Quote from: ivan747 on September 29, 2016, 02:48:27 am

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 02:39:28 pm
content: Thank you so much, Saturation, lots of insight!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk