How do I get the hard drive in my laptop back to a completely empty/new state? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: engineheat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2018, 10:07:11 pm
content: I want to format my entire hard drive, including the C drive which has Windows 7 installed. I want to nuke everything and start fresh, and reinstall a OS from BIOS, just like when you first buy a hard drive.How do I do this? I don't think Disc Management in Windows will allow me to format the C drive...thanks

author: kulla
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2018, 10:08:20 pm
content: Boot your computer with installation disc, you will have part of installation where you select partition where you can delete the ones that you have and create new empty one where you will install OS after formatting.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2018, 10:15:33 pm
content: The techie's tool of choice here is a live GParted disk/c. It's free, works with pretty much every single file system and partition table known to man and a few species of intelligent lobster, and can do exactly what you are looking for.If you were running Linux, you'd actually have a much better time nuking the entire system, as in theory Linux could stay alive just long enough to nuke the entire drive and then likely crash. I have never tried this, though.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2018, 10:23:53 pm
content: If you want to be certain there's nothing persistent that could affect a fresh OS install, and aren't a Linux nerd with a deep familiarity with dd, useDBAN(Darik's Boot and Nuke) in its "Quick Erase" mode.Caution:it will wipe most factory restore partitions so if your OS was supplied preloaded without media don't expect to be able to boot into the restore partition (which cant be trusted anyway if your machine's ever caught any malware) to reload afterwards.N.B. it wont guarantee failing or failed sectors are securely erased, but they wont be accessible thereafter in normal operation.It also wont help if you have been infected with a BIOS or HD controller firmware rootkit.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 01:12:09 am
content: You can't reinstall the OS from the BIOS (if that's what you meant), you need an install disc for the OS you want to use. The install files can also be put on a USB flash drive. More info would be helpful.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 10:57:31 am
content: Nononononononono!!!OK, first things first, I think that you mean to reinstall the OS from the recovery partition which is on the hard disk.A tool like GPARTED (which is very powerful but not at all easy or safe to use if you have no experience of it) or DBAN will wipe the entire disk including the recovery partition so *DO NOT USE IT* unless you are 100%, absolutely dead sure it won't wipe anything important and that includes hidden recovery partitions.We need to know which machine it is because different brands have different recovery methods, on some you hold down a function key to initiate the recovery from a hidden partition, you may need recovery disks if it doesn't haver that partition.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 02:51:10 pm
content: If you want to wipe the drive completely, find the manufacturer of the drive, go to their website and download their low level format tool. This will zero the drive completely. This is completely OS independent and will also test the drive and report on how many sectors are damaged etc.Companies like Maxtor sometimes require you use this before they will accept a return drive as faulty.Note, it takes quite a long time as it literally writes to every single byte on the drive multiple times.EDIT: If however you want to reset your laptop/PC to "factory" the way you bought it, follow the advice about recovery discs. Usually one came with the PC or can be downloaded from the manufacturers website.The two processes are not compatible. If you erase the drive the recovery disc will no longer work. Equally the recovery process will often not remove any persistent data which will often still exist and still be accessible and in others remains on the disc in a deleted but hackable state.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 03:05:01 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on April 16, 2018, 02:51:10 pmThere are no low level format tools available for general public and maxtor is gone since 12 years ago. Not to say such tools may be useful for remapping bad sectors, not deleting data. As of how to make HDD as new, boot from USB or DVD drive, and use Diskpart (command prompt) to clean the disk from partition table (diskpart clean). Though just deleting volumes during installation is generally more than enough.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 03:37:31 pm
content: Using recovery disk(s) or hidden recovery partition usually has the drawback of also restoring all the original bloatware/crapware. Generally using a normal install disk is a better choice. The basic drivers included in the OS install will be enough to get up and running. You may need to locate and download some drivers afterward, but that's not much of a problem these days.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 03:42:16 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on April 16, 2018, 03:37:31 pmUsually, but it's often the case that the disks you can create from that partition are a raw OS set plus the crapware on a separate disk so it's worth exploring.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 06:14:16 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 16, 2018, 03:05:01 pmhttp://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/196275en?language=en_US&key=ka030000000tnDZAAY&kb=n&wwwlocale=en-gbLow level format tools actually overwrite the drive multiple times with bit sequences, this allows them to identify bad sectors, remap them and to assess the health of the drive. They also, due to overwriting the data completely wipe it. Only the FBI/Forensics would recover the data.Parted / Disk part, et. al. simply delete the partition table. I have recovered complete partitions after that process was done accidentally on one of mine. (Yes, a case of "Oh shit, not that disk, the other one) I was able to reinstate the partition table. Similarly I have formatted drives accidentally and then promptly recovered them, mostly. This required the linux block level tools though.So it really depends on how deep the erasure you want. Of course in business they have moved on from magnetic erasure to companies that will come round and put the drive through a shredder for you.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 06:17:49 pm
content: Also beware that recovery disks often don't delete your existing data and if there is enough of it will actually fail as they try and expand temporary files before overwriting the OS, so if the destination C drive is full they can fail. I have lots of trouble with them and usually ended up doing the process myself. Note that, as long as you have a windows license sticker for the version you are installing (or are entitled to) the actual install media can be downloaded easily.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 06:28:39 pm
content: My company uses DBAN. We work with the public sector and must use DBAN to decommission a hard drive if the drive is functional enough to do so, otherwise it's complete destruction. I also use it myself to completely clean a hard drive. Know that it can take hours to completely wipe a hard drive with DBAN. I have also used DiskPart to get rid of the GPT partition that Clonzilla creates so I could do a clean install from an OS disc instead of an image. This process doesn't take long. Do you have media for your OS? Disc or flash drive? If so, DBAN it. If you have only the recovery partition, use DiskPart to clean the partition.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 09:38:15 pm
content: For the future:I have not seen install disks in years. When I get a new computer, I turn it on and let it do its thing (no internet). Then I turn it off and remove the HD and clone it (cloners are cheap) and put the clone back in (usually a SSD) and store the original. If something happens, I clone the original again. Very easy and simple and reliable.Just last week I ran into a new problem. My latest computer came with a mSATA drive so I had to order adapters (for the cloner) and have not figured out how to clone the mSATA yet.But I do have a related problem that some of these answers seen too complex so I will start a new topic :"Simple way to clean a Dell laptop for donation"Removing a HD from a laptop decreases the value too much for a donation. I have 6 old laptops that I would like to donate without damaging the HDs.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 10:08:55 pm
content: So you let windows find itself and set it's self up for one PC, then clone it and put it into other computers and hope that windows figures everything out and cleanly swaps the driver assignments and autoconfig over? Even with sysprep it leaves stray driver assignments lying around and gets it's self into a muddle... often just blue screening on boot even in safemode.That said I have maintained the same instance of linux for about 10 years through 3 different computers without a reinstall. It's that it's more repairable and upgradable with the right amount of time effort and know how than windows is.Then again, Windows is much more prone to issues that are just not recoverably from, including malware/viri infection and Windows just driving itself nuts. So, I too have kept image based backups of Windows on external drives. I never expect them to work on different machines though.I know the local college uses a rotating wipe and reclone using PIXE boot tools and network drive clone software to routinely and frequently erase and reimage every PC in the building automatically.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 11:53:00 am
content: Quote from: paulca on April 16, 2018, 06:14:16 pmDo you realize how old that tool and supported drives are? Also such tools are not intended for data destruction so nothing is guaranteed. Not to say question was about making drive "like new" for further own use, not irrecoverably destroying the data.As of newer seatools it barely can do anything and low level format is certainly not among it's capabilities.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 12:08:17 pm
content: See my post from an almost identical thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/simple-way-to-clean-a-dell-laptop-for-donation/msg1480675/#msg1480675

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 01:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 18, 2018, 12:08:17 pmIt's not. That thread is particularly about destroying data without loosing windows install, not making HDD as if was fresh.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 11:09:04 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 18, 2018, 01:26:07 pmSame principle still apply, just adjust it to your requirements.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 01:32:55 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 18, 2018, 11:09:04 pmIt's completely different, no step will be done the same.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 06:48:33 am
content: Quote from: paulca on April 16, 2018, 06:14:16 pmThat's not a low level format, a low level format is a process from back when hard drives were not intelligent and did not have embedded servo tracks, it re-writes the underlying 'structure' of the disk (tracks and sectors) that allow the controller to locate the heads and write data in known locations on the physical media, the DOS or Linux or whatever OS you choose then lays it's own high level format down within the framework of that low level structure.There is no way a PC can perform a low level format of almost any hard disk made in the last 20 years, it is simply not possible despite what the companies writing the disk utilities would have you believe (and that, in some situations includes disk manufacturers who misuse the term).What you are describing is a media test, weirdly though that media test is a more thorough way to destroy data than a real low level format because it writes to everywhere on the disk that's marked as being available for data whereas a true LLF just creates the markers that indicate where the data can be put and doesn't always write everywhere (though some did) so even though the data isn't locatable by the controller it can still be recovered in part or whole with some large amount of effort and skill.debugg=c800:5

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 06:55:21 am
content: Quote from: CJay on April 19, 2018, 06:48:33 amSo maybe that's were I got the term from. I have had to return several drives due to being broken and they asked me to test the drive with their "low level format tool". It was about 10 years ago now, I vaguely recall it giving you a fault code for the warranty claim. It also gave a report on number of bad sectors marked etc. They were boot disc OS free utilities. A good drive would take ages to complete. In my case it failed pretty quickly as it was returning mostly broken sectors and it gave up declaring the drive (only a year old) faulty.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 08:19:58 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on April 16, 2018, 09:38:15 pm

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 10:39:09 am
content: Quote from: CJay on April 19, 2018, 06:48:33 amCorrect. Furthermore if you do somehow manage (through the use of other tools) to "Low Level Format" your modern spinning disk hard drive, it will be rendered permanently useless.

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 10:41:07 am
content: Quote from: paulca on April 16, 2018, 06:14:16 pmThere are some common misconceptions in that post. It has not been possible to "low-level format" consumer drives for a long time. Drives come low-level formatted (using very expensive commercial equipment) from the factory. Once low-level formatted, the disks are then added to the rest of the consumer grade components in an HDD to be soft formatted and used normally. You are getting low-level formatting mixed up with "wiping," which is a common error.is a short and simple explanation in video form. In that link you provided, it used the term "low level format" a few times, but what it describes is a slightly different software formatting- in other words, pure marketing wank. There is not a way to low-level format modern drives (last 20 or so years), regardless of manufacturer, outside of the manufacturer's original production line process and equipment. period.You also refer to data forensics techniques (Guttman method). Any remotely modern drive (the size is debatable, but certainly anything above 80GB, no matter what standard or technology) is impossible to recover- no matter the method, and no matter the actor- your, your mom, FBI, CIA, tin foil hat guy, aliens, etc. As long as the data isactually written overat least once, it is simply not physically possible to recover it. This misconception is quite old and comes from an early research paper on magnetic storage. The author himself even later corrected the confusion saying it only works on very old drives- think mid-90's floppy drives, and possibly early MB or very low GB range HDD's. How this misconception has lived for decades is beyond me.That being said, DBAN sounds like what the author wants.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 12:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: MyHeadHz on April 19, 2018, 10:41:07 amIn my defense, the term "Low level format" is a relative statement. It is low(er) level than an OS filesystem format. It is what the various manufacturers now call it. If you want to be academic-pedantic about that being the incorrect term, then speak to them, not me.It is also able to do things that the OS can usually not (or won't) do, such as reset the registry of bad blocks.As I understand it, it writes to the whole disc without any concept of 'file system', thus, it is a low(er) level format than an OS will do which will only write within the bounds of a partition and within it's file system format. Event at that, few OS 'formatter' do anything other than rewrite the root references for the file allocation nodes/table or tree and initialise the filesystem meta data. Any data on the disc is still there, just the OS won't see it and is free to overwrite it. DOS/Windows used to have the "Full format" option which IIRC write the letters "DOS" across the whole filesystem.As to wehter you call the "low level format " tools actually "formatters" is debatable, but they do more than wipe. They assess, analyse and initialize the drive which is what most people would call a low level format. They are most often used for diagnosis, returning you a health check on whether the disc is trustable and how many dodgy blocks it had to remap etc. If it's in warranty there is usually a number or percentage at which the drive can be replaced.On the topic of pedantry, I expect you are the kind of person who reminds people that computers do no "crash" these days as that term refers to the physical condition of the disk head "crashing" into the platter.

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 11:52:10 pm
content: I did not mean any of that personally. You used a very specific term incorrectly, so I corrected it. That's it. You can do or say whatever you want, but please don't spread misinformation. Now you have the proper knowledge so that you don't have to. You can throw around terms like "pedantry" if it makes you feel like you've saved face, but I like to think this place as professional enough to where such things are not necessary. There are terms that properly describe what you mistook for low-level formatting if you wish to research a bit. That's a bit off-topic and I don't want to derail this thread any further though.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 06:37:09 am
content: Quote from: paulca on April 19, 2018, 12:19:34 pmdefense rejected. low level means down to hardware level, physical arrangement of it. maybe you are too young for the term, even me i never got the chance to experience it. anything "soft" including OS is just "format". you format a hard drive or partition, everything's gone, including the OS (from mortals point of view). and it doesnt take much to destroy anything, even if you have 1000,000 TB HDD, all it need is to erase the FAT/NTFS whatever file system's TABLE, (Quick Format) its just few MB the most.BTW i have 2 bootable partitions containing both WinXP in single HDD, one is for me to work right now, one is just basic install contains nothing but WinXP, in case my first WinXP fucked up, i use the 2nd WinXP to "factory like fresh" format on the 1st partition. i exchange boot between the 2 using very old Partition Magic Tools (that resides in my 2nd (unbootable or data) HDD), i'm sure most of you will never got the chance (i just checked its still developed in newer version). but since fresh install including all the my softwares etc is a PITA, i did it once, and make the image using AOMEI Backupper and store it in 2nd partition. my 2nd partition (hidden) existed since like the beginning of the creation of it (never been reformatted) where my 1st (working) WinXP has been constantly reformatted / restored in 1-3 years interval due to install uninstall bloat, virus etc and new experimental software revision release that fucked up or degrade performance of my system.If you dont have dual partition like mine, i suggest get another computer with format capable OS to fresh format your another HDD. ymmv...

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 07:09:54 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 20, 2018, 06:37:09 amStraying from topic, but as my primary OS is linux, when I "do" reinstall, I typically just mount the drive inside the running linux and install it and configure it all in chroot. With chroot the only thing that is not "native" to that running OS is the kernel. You change to a directory and effectively cut off the filesystem above that folder, so that folder becomes the / root for everything you run in it. So as a last step I put a kernel in, update the boot loader config and reboot. Asides the reboot, zero downtime. chroot is also used for quarantining insecure or public services, but you have to move in the minimum OS libraries and files. This is why you often see a bin and lib folder on FTP sites.However that was mostly when I was building my own distro, since I gave that up as too much effort to maintain I have only reinstalled my Linux once and that was simply by choice to see if it made any difference to start from fresh. It didn't.With windows having so much auto-magical stuff which is next to impossible to reconfigure and fix which gets bloated and slightly senile, it usually requires a full reinstall periodically. For that I used to use Acronos True Image which will make bootable recovery DVDs or just lift the image off a network or external drive. I tried both the empty install and empty install plus minimum software suite and sysprep. I agree the former is easier.