Multimeter fuses - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 09:27:29 pm
content: 11A fuse for EEVblog BM235: US$41.00. Not for a box of 5. Each.http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=DMM-B-11ANext meter, Dave, use tin foil! lolCan't imagine Bussmann's justification for such a price. Is it that much quicker than other fuses? Gold filament?edit:Digikey offered this as alternative:http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=614-1078-NDAll but the "B" in the pn... and US$9.Good alternative?Cheers.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 09:33:12 pm
content: Never mind that, tell us how you managed to blow it.PS: Look on the bright side: You'll be a lot more careful next time.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 01:44:05 am
content: Just plugged it into Amazon, 5pc for $26. Looks like you can buy singles.https://www.amazon.com/BUSSMANN-DMM-B-11-DMM-B-11A-Multimeter-Replacement/dp/B007HQX502/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1467855633&sr=8-13&keywords=dmm-b-11

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 02:35:58 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 07, 2016, 01:44:05 amJust a word about Amazon. Since they allow 3rd party sellers, you have to be really careful and do your homework on the seller. Some sellers sell fakes, but Amazon either doesn't care or can't screen out the bad sellers quick enough. Some sellers are NOT based in the USA which means you are waiting 3 to 5 weeks.If you are buying from Amazon, I look to ensure it is fulfilled by Amazon itself.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 03:44:28 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 07, 2016, 02:35:58 amKeep in mind that just lowers your risk, it does NOT guarantee a legitimate product.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 04:36:36 am
content: Quote from: BMack on July 07, 2016, 03:44:28 amTrue, but at least you then can deal with their legendary customer service vs some 3rd party seller.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 06:19:28 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 07, 2016, 04:36:36 amAgreed

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 07:05:17 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 07, 2016, 04:36:36 amBest to not have to deal with *any* CS--legendary or not--to have a fried DMM replaced, if the fuse is counterfeit. One area I'd rather not have to worry.I'll order from Mouser.iX

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 09:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: iXod on July 06, 2016, 09:27:29 pmI suspect it's the same fuse with a custom P/N for Fluke (gR characteristics for the filament).FWIW, aSiba 5019906.11would work as well. Generally speaking, they're cheaper than the B version, but more expensive than the Fluke version (here).Unless you buy directly from Keysight for $5.79 that is (internal P/N is2110-1402).They offer the 440mA version for $6.48 as well (2110-1400).BTW, it's free shipping back when I needed one when it was still Agilent (suspect it's the same). Got in too much of a hurry and blew one by not moving the lead from the A input to the V/Ohm/,... input when trying to measure voltage when working on a Jeep.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:37:51 am
content: The reason these fuses are so expensive is that they have to be able to interrupt high voltage DC while not arcing. For instance common 250 volt AC rated fuses are only good to like 32 volts DC.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:01:28 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 08, 2016, 01:37:51 amTrue these proper HRC fuses will interrupt massive fault currents safely versus the regular cheep glass fuses that tend to explode and draw the arc out in to the surroundings.But why are they so much more expensive? Id assume its just a matter of using a better wire material inside and filling it with sand to absorb the energy.

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:43:55 am
content: Quote from: Berni on July 08, 2016, 05:01:28 amCertainly not the cost of components that justifies the retail price. I'm sure it's that meter owners know that to use a non-DMM rated fuse is risking damage so they can charge whatever they want.iX

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:15:05 pm
content: QuoteProving regulatory compliance. Good quality control, testing batches of fuses to prove they do their job (considering how small the volume is for this kind of fuse, compared with the cheaper ones, this may be a considerable cost in their manufacture).All the red tape costs money.All so that you know the fuse does what it says on the case.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:22:16 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 08, 2016, 01:37:51 amYep, we get that.But what makes them expensive? There's no high tech inside them. It's basically just a fuse filled with sand to prevent formation of a plasma arc when there's enough energy to vaporize the wire instead of just melting it.Quote from: MosherIV on July 08, 2016, 12:15:05 pmThat might explainsomeof it but I think there's a large amount of charging extra just because they can.They're not like aircraft parts where every single nut and bolt has its own audit trail.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:10:45 pm
content: I'd say they are exactly like aircraft parts in that they are a safety component which if it does not perform as expected then someone will very likely be maimed or killed. Put a normal 32mm glass fuse in a multimeter, set it to Amps range then put the probes across two phases of a large 3 phase busbar and see what happens!They are expensive for all of the same reasons that an aircraft bolt is more expensive than one from an ebay hardware shop

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:37:04 pm
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on July 08, 2016, 01:10:45 pmTheconceptis the same, yes.Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on July 08, 2016, 01:10:45 pmNot really. Aircraft bolts are expensive because of the supply logistics and the paper trail they leave behind behind them. These fuses don't have that.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 08:56:53 pm
content: Funny things thse fuses. I've a large number of fuses installed in all kind of equipment, test and consumer.They never blow, so why worry.I once blew the 440mA fuse in my Fluke DMM when it was very new. It's expensive, but part of my personal safetyusing this meter, so I accept a higher price. The price itself makes me think twice when using current settings,thus increasing safety...

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 09:16:28 pm
content: I have blown these fuses in the past and when I needed an immediate replacement, I soldered 3 strands from 7/32 stranded 24 gauge wire across the fuse caps to make a 20 amp fusible link.I wonder if the fuse construction is more than embedding the fuse element inside of sand. Could the granular material decompose when heated by the arc outgassing to extinguish it?

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:23:54 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 09, 2016, 09:16:28 pmModemhead took apart a Bussmann fuse after an oops moment.http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/inside-a-multimeter-fuse/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 09:57:28 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 09, 2016, 09:16:28 pmNope.Quote from: David Hess on July 09, 2016, 09:16:28 pmNah, there won't be enough heat from the fuse wire to turn the sand to plasma.The air around the fuse is probably more conductive once the fuse vapor has dispersed into the sand .Quote from: markce on July 09, 2016, 08:56:53 pmYep. It certainly teaches you how to use a multimeter safely.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 10:27:04 am
content: Copper wire across the fuse terminals gets the job done and lets you know when it blows

author: Bobson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 10:32:04 am
content: I'm using ceramic Bussmann TDC-180 10A fuses with my cheap Chinese multimeters instead of glass ones. They are plenty from unused UK power plugs coming with almost any bit of equipment.May be I'm wrong and it it safer to leave glass fuses? Data chart says these Bussmanns are Fast/Medium types, rated voltage 264V AC.And what is "Bussmann" exactly? Is it type of fuse or trademark? Because I see a lot of Bussmann fuses from different producers (may be just resalers).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 12:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: Bobson on July 10, 2016, 10:32:04 amA brand name now owned byEaton(link to fuse products).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 02:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: Bobson on July 10, 2016, 10:32:04 amI don't think glass fuses areeverbetter.(apart from the fact that you can look through the window and see if they're blown)Quote from: Bobson on July 10, 2016, 10:32:04 amIn that case there's a fun/simple way to find out: Blow a few of them.Put your meter in the milliamps range and connect the probes to a battery. If the fuse blows then they're OK to use in your meter.Quote from: Bobson on July 10, 2016, 10:32:04 amThose fancy fuses areonlythere in case you connect your meter to a high energy source with the selector in the "amps" position.Connecting your meter to a high energy source with the selector in the "amps" position is something you shouldneverdo in real life. There's no legitimate reason to do it. Ever.The fuses are only there for moments of stupidity.On all ranges except "amps" it's it MOVs, PTCs, etc. that protect you., not the fuses (Simple test: pull the fuses out and see if you can still measure volts, ohms, etc.)Bottom line: If your meter isn't safe to use with mains electricity then changing the fuses won't fix that.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 04:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 10, 2016, 09:57:28 amIs it actually just sand though?I found two materials used in combination for arc quenching in fuses but there are others depending on the application. Silica melts and aluminum hydroxide decomposes producing water which itself decomposes into other gases increasing the dielectric strength and blowing out the arc.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 06:04:43 pm
content: I would not mind getting my hands on various fake fuses to play with. If you have a known source on Amazon that will sell them, post it or PM me.John Ward had ran some tests on some fakes. It make be interesting to try and run some similar tests on the large HRC fuses used in the meters.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 05:49:16 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 10, 2016, 06:04:43 pmThere's loads on eBay. Don't know about Amazon though.Quote from: joeqsmith on July 10, 2016, 06:04:43 pmThey weren't much worse then the 'real' ones.OK, some smoke came out of one of thembut the times, breaking currents and maximum temperatures weren'tthatdifferent. Not enough to be the difference between life/death.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 06:05:18 am
content: A glass fuse will work here just fine.What i want to see tested is interrupting large fault currents. That's where a glass fuse dangerously explodes while a proper HRC fuse should contain it and stop the arc safely.I do have a sizable capacitor bank(i think about 800 Jules at 450V) that could provide enough power to explode fuses, but these fuses tend to be a bit expensive to blow up a dozen of them.

author: Richard Head
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 07:54:15 am
content: The silica sand in HRC fuses is used to displace the air. If the air (gas) is removed there is no significant pressure build-up inside the fuse and it doesn't explode.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 08:31:28 am
content: I was hoping that with as many fake DMM HRC fuses there were on Amazon, I would get some leads from those of you that bought them. The only ones I saw where people had made them were the smaller sizes like John shows.Assuming they could be found for a fair price, would have been fun to get 5/ea of various ones and bench mark them. Maybe a tear down, 2 at DC and two at their fault currents (using a scope to capture what is going on). Drag out the faster camera.One of the glass ones in the VICI 99:https://youtu.be/Q23eArAsXmo?t=1845Small glass and ceramic fuses on the half cycle simulator:https://youtu.be/cWKoRxNEsXk?t=90Of course, photonicinduction does a much better job using some much higher rupture current fuses:https://youtu.be/0-HYPdh744M?t=342

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 10:22:58 am
content: I looked in to it a bit and i see that the small HRC fuses found in good multimeters tend to have about 20kA breaking capacity. So my capacitor bank does not have nearly enough grunt to cause a genuine HRC fuse to fail catastrophically.Issue is that you need a low voltage cap bank for the test to be valid as the fuses tend to be rated up to 400 VAC. So to get 20kA of peak current out of it the cap bank has to have both low resistance and inductance along with quite a bit of jules to sustain that for one 50Hz cycle.If anyone thinks they have a cap bank that fits the bill id love to see some testing.

author: JackM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 02:18:09 pm
content: Where can one buy genuine HRC fuses in Canada? Digikey.ca offers no alternatives aside from the Bussman/Eaton brand which they sell for $47 CAD (440mA) and $57 CAD (10A) each... Mouser has a cheaper Schurter brand 10A fuse, but I'm having a hard time finding alternatives for the 440mA fuses from a reputable source.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 02:56:49 am
content: Quote from: JackM on July 12, 2016, 02:18:09 pmLittlefuse also makes 440mA fuses that are used in high end meters.A quick search shows Newark sells the 440mA fuse for $9.80 CDN.http://canada.newark.com/fluke/943121/fuse-replacement-440ma-fast-acting/dp/52F4514Newark has the 11A fuse for $13.02 CDN.http://canada.newark.com/fluke/803293/fuse-only-replacement-11a/dp/20C4137I have NO IDEA what Newark charges for shipping and what courier they use.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 03:50:30 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 13, 2016, 02:56:49 amAnd SIBA:http://www.ebay.com/itm/201613339114

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 03:59:38 am
content: Quote from: Berni on July 12, 2016, 10:22:58 amNone of the 10mm ones I have seen were rated for 400V.SIBA, 50-199-06, 10A, 1000V 30kA, made in Germany, solidLittlefuse, FLU 11A, 11A, 1000V 20kA, assembled in Mexico, wovenLittlefuse, FLU 44/100A, 440mA, 1000V 10kA, assembled in Mexico, wovenCooper Bussmann, DMM-B-44/100, 440mA, 1000V, 10kA, wovenFluke packaged Bussmann, DMM-44/100, 440mA, 1000V, 10kA, assembled in Mexico, wovenThat large cap Photonicinduction shows to blow one apart would be the ticket. Best to know what your doing if you wanted to buy one to play with. I know my tiny half cycle generator would not come close to making any of them explode.If I could get some of these fake Amazon fuses, these may actually come apart by the sounds of it.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 05:23:52 am
content: Also the question is at what point do you genuinely need a proper fuse in your meter.If you work with only low power things then there is no real danger of using a cheap meter with the cheap fuse it comes with. And if you work with large industrial switch panels designed to carry 1000s of amps in normal operations you obviously shouldn't even come close with anything other than a proper high quality meter with proper fuses.But at what point does a HRC fuse become a must. Like for example a lot of people use meters to troubleshoot there home mains wiring. Is there enough energy in a wall outlet to blow apart a meter? How about the incoming mains in the fuse box?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 12:19:39 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on July 13, 2016, 05:23:52 amThis is an elephant in the room.Quote from: Berni on July 13, 2016, 05:23:52 amNot only that but the fuse is only in the low-impedance ranges on the meter, ie. amps. If your meter isn't set to an "amps" range then the fuse does nothing at all. You can take it out and the meter will still measure volts, ohms, etc.I can't think of a legitimate reason to connect the meter to a high energy source in the amps range.Bottom line: The fuse is only there for when you're not using the meter correctly. If you're using it correctly then the type of fuse is unimportant. Worry more about them MOVs, PTCs and creepage distances.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 12:32:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 13, 2016, 12:19:39 pmAgree 100% and this is why I never included the current in my transient testing. Theses HRC fuses are there for safety.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 12:50:22 pm
content: Yes the fuse is there only for the time when you stupidly forget you are plugged in to amps and try to measure the voltage of a supply. Just when the said supply is a 12V wall wart all you get is a bit of a spark and the wallwart getting warm. When you do this on a giant 3 phase bus bar the result is a huge arc flash and the chard remains of the electrician that did the stupid mistake.Voltage overloads in multimeters are usually not as concerning since you rarely encounter more than 1000V at home and if you do it tends to be low current. So as long as you don't try to measure the output of a microwave oven transformer you should be safe.The question is if a DIYer does the same amps jack mistake in his home mains distribution panel. Could a cheep meter and fuse become more dangerous in such a situation versus a HRC fuse?I personally never have taken care of using only good quality meters on regular household 230/400V mains. I picked up whatever meter was handy, be it my good Agilent or the cheap 20€ rebadger.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 01:03:41 pm
content: It's slightly overstating it to say the fuse isonlyfor when you misuse the meter. If the power-consuming circuit element that you are measuring current for were to fail short, then the meter itself would become the driven device; the fuse protects you from that situation, too.For example, you are using the DMM in amps mode to measure the performance of a dummy load connected to a 1KW supply. What happens when the load fails short?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 01:21:43 pm
content: Quote from: helius on July 13, 2016, 01:03:41 pmThere are shitty glass fuses then there are HRC fuses. Both can protect the meter from damage. Seeing you're providing example, for your 1KW supply assuming it is a 100,000V, my guess is the meter would lug down the supply. I guess you could try it and post your results.Quote from: Berni on July 13, 2016, 12:50:22 pmI am not sure what a worst case number would be for how much energy you could have across the incoming lines to your house.I have seen some meter's cases open up and others with sparks coming out and even some leads that ruptured with some fairly low energy transients.I would not be too surprised if some of the meters I looked at could have a fair amount of damage in the current settings, even with the fuses removed.Too many variables. But I would be very interested if you come up with some sort of test and run it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 04:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: helius on July 13, 2016, 01:03:41 pmYou need a fuse, sure, but does it need to be one of those expensive Bussman fuses? A simple glass fuse can interrupt 1kW.The Bussman fuses are for situations where there's thousands of amps available, where a glass fuse will turn to metal vapor inside the tube.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 05:18:41 am
content: Quote from: iXod on July 06, 2016, 09:27:29 pmI've just run into this dilemma, I was shocked to see the large fuse costing 1/3 the price of the meter.There are a few threads here about this, and I posted the same request (below) in case anyone reads those old threads. Seeing such a price decrepancy made me realize the fake/clone market For these is a real concern. I'm not going to get into the debate if "similar" fuses are ok, or good enough. In my use, there are times I might rely on them, so I'd like to find the original spec'd fuses at a reasonable price, if that's even possible?Anyone find a reputable online company, (I'm in the US) that sells both types of replacement fuses at reasonable prices? BM235 model.I looked at both Mouser, and GreyBar, both large companies, but a single large fuse is over $40/each, and of course I can find them on eBay, for far less, but I have no idea if they are Chinese clones, since China is the source. The price range between them is crazy, 3 large fuses cost as much as the base meter. THANKS!

author: joseph nicholas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 10:02:25 am
content: Quote from: Berni on July 13, 2016, 12:50:22 pmMeasuring this voltage I just use my cheap chinese MF-47 multimeter. It goes up to 2.5KV. It also has a seperate jack for this measurement so its hard to fuck it up.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 01:14:59 pm
content: It may be bad luck saying this, but I've not yet blown a fuse in a DMM. I've actually destroyed the tip of one of the probes that came with my Fluke 179 though.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 12:27:59 am
content: Quote from: MacMeter on January 28, 2017, 05:18:41 amWhat are the original fuses' P/N or specifications?I ask, as you can usually find equivalents from other manufacturers. In the case of the linked fuse ($40 something), it's price is because it's rated for 1kV AC&1kV DC. Sadly the equivalents are similarly priced (i.e. Littlefuse 0FLU011.U or 0FLU011.T).

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 12:42:20 am
content: FROM THE ONLINE EEVBlob BM235 USER MANUAL:Fuse F1 for uAmA current input: 0.4A/1000V DC/AC, IR 30kA FAST fuse or better; Dimension: 6 x 32 mmSIBA 70-172-40 FF400mAFuse F2 for A current input: 11A/1000V DC/AC, IR 20kA F fuse or better; Dimension: 10 x 38mm?Bussman DMM-B-11A?Littelfuse FLU011

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 12:47:39 am
content: I wonder how well it would work to take a correctly sized glass fuse and rebuild it with sand or an appropriate filler inside.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 01:49:45 am
content: Quote from: MacMeter on January 29, 2017, 12:42:20 amThe uA/mA fuse (F1) isn't all that expensive (Galco carries theSiba 70-172-40for $7.43).They also carry theLittlefuse FLU011for $32.10 (best price I've seen, but still on the expensive side IMHO).The SIBA equivalent P/N = 5019906.11, and it's a LOT cheaper @ $8.13 fromTME(they're located in Poland, but they do ship to the US).

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 01:52:57 am
content: Its not merely that these fuses dissipate energy better, they also extinguish an arc better. I have never seen a cheap fuse rated at hundreds of volts DC.

author: Mikke
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 08:25:07 am
content: Quote from: Berni on July 13, 2016, 05:23:52 amYou don't have to work with switch panels or power sockets to get big short circuit currents. A normal car battery has a very low internal resistance and short circuiting one can result in more than 1000 amps. Luckily the test leads have also some resistance. So in case of measuring battery voltage with meter set to "amps", the actual current through your multimeter will be somewhat less.Being careful helps, but mistakes do happen and then you need the proper fuse.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 04:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: Mikke on January 29, 2017, 08:25:07 amMost automotive will be 24V or less. Do you feel a 250V glass fuse will rupture with a direct connection to the batteries?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 07:53:56 pm
content: My first few cars used glass fuses. A quick search on eBay...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-9-Boxes-Fuses-Bowes-Littlefuse-Buss-Automobile-Garage-Gas-Station-Sign-/190878236552I have some 9A 32V automotive fuses from Bowes and Little Fuse. They are a 1/4 X 7/8. You can see them next to the fuses from the UT61E and a 1000V Little Fuse. I would guess these would rupture before a 250V glass part.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 03:14:28 am
content: Quote from: Berni on July 13, 2016, 12:50:22 pmSuch accidents which do happen are newsworthy,& are tragedies to those concerned & their families, but are really statistically insignificant.I have (& I am sure many others have) measured phase -to- phase on a (then) 254/440v system,using AVO 8,early Beckman DMMs,Fluke 77,& a few other multimeters.When people set out to do such measurements,they approach them differently to "quick checks"on lower voltage circuits.You don't just "grab the nearest meter", prance up to the 3 phase board like a Smurf and poke the probes in higgledy-piggledy.The correct approach is to make sure that the test leads areNOTin the current sockets,or if the connections are switched,the meter isn't on a current range.With the leads correctly configured for voltage readings,check that the meter is switched to the appropriate AC voltage range.Check the condition of the leads.Be like Santa & "check it twice".To be really sure,with the multimeter set up correctly,connect it across a known source of AC voltage ( normally in Oz,the nearest single phase 230v GPO).This shows your meter actually works---a dead meter would be more dangerous than anything else.Now,if you can possibly do so,rest the meter on the floor,or some other support,not handheld.If at all possible,connect the probes before applying power to the circuit to be tested.In many cases,you don't need to test "Phase to Phase" & can just measure the lower voltage "Phase to Neutral",or cheat even more & go "Phase to Earth".

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 06:33:08 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 29, 2017, 01:49:45 amForget GALCO, unless you want to buy (10) fuses. I just called them, not in stock, won't be stocked, a 10 fuse order limit. This for the 400m/A fuse. So the search for a reputable USA site where I can buy 3 of these fuses continues!

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 05:22:07 pm
content: While I like the BM-235, my frustration finding the SIBA 7017240.0.4 replacement fuse continues. I'm trying to avoid eBay and Amazon as there is no way to know if you are getting a clone/copy. I called SIBA USA, they gave me 3 US websites to try. Only one even listed the fuse, no stock, minimum order of 10, and it's a SPECIAL order. Not a good situation.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 11:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 13, 2017, 05:22:07 pmThey're not located in the US, but TME carries both fuses needed for your BM237 and sells them as singles (they're in Poland).SIBA 7017240.0,5SIBA 5019906.11

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 12:46:42 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 13, 2017, 11:14:31 pmThanks, I had remembered them from some other comments here someplace and wrote them this morning, but no response yet.The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?The larger Bussmann fuse, I solved by getting lucky and was gifted a few of those, so I just need the smaller ones now.I kept this TME link to a fuse listed as made by "Brymen", but was waiting to see their response to my email.http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm-s_fuse-0.4a/accessories-others/Thanks for trying to help, getting spare fuses should not be so difficult, I hope Dave considers offering spare fuses next time.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 05:27:07 pm
content: Here is the email reply from TME (note: no mention of the Brymen fuses, I sent a followup email asking about those, but did see NO stock for those on their site either)------- email quote--------Hi,sorry but we don't have it in our offerPozdrawiam / Best regardsPatryk TargaszewskiProsz? o zachowanie ci?g?o?ci korespondencjiPlease continuity correspondence=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Transfer Multisort Elektronik Sp. z o.o.ul.Ustronna 4193-350 ?ód?Polandtel. +48 42 645 55 55fax +48 42 645 55 00----- end quote-------This is getting crazy......

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 11:59:42 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 14, 2017, 12:46:42 amIdeally, you would want to stick to 400ma/440ma as the meter's spec.Siba's P/N for such a beast is7017240.0,4. Sadly, it seems no one carries them; not even as a special order.The 500ma version is readily available however, and it may have to do (it would still protect the user).The only other thing I can think of, is getting them directly from Siba or Brymen.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 12:48:38 am
content: The 440mA from my Agilent was open, I noticed it when I wanted to charge the meter. No spare. I almost never use the meter for current and I only use it in my lab for repair work. I do not know why it blew because I have not used it for current since the last charging (about 1 to 2 times a week)But I needed the meter so I took the bushman fuse apart, Took two fuseholders and used the bajonet caps. I turned them on a lathe to the right size. Then mounted and soldered them in the removed caps of the bushman fuse. I pushed a 500mA sand filled fuse in it and then pushed in the caps on the bushman body so now I have a fuse that looks like a bushman with a normal cheap replaceable fuse inside.Yes, I know it is not as save but for my use it is good enough. By the way ever looked what fuses are used in fi the Keithley 2000 benchmeters ?

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 12:55:19 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 14, 2017, 11:59:42 pmI called Siba (post #55). They don't sell direct, but to distributors. I'll try, but I'd bet Brymen is going to be another dead end in the quest to find the "UNICORN FUSE".

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 03:00:06 am
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 15, 2017, 12:55:19 amHopefully Brymen will surprise you, and sell you what you need (Keysight carries replacement parts & sell to individuals for example).If not, you'll have to substitute either the 500mA previously linked, or a larger fuse (change the tabs to 10 x 38mm). The trick is to match the breaking voltage and speed (FF) to keep you safe.

author: mrm2007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 04:55:55 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 14, 2017, 11:59:42 pmHi,I'm not sure if they fit into brymen but you could check these fluke fuses:http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fluke/FUSE-44AMA-1000VB5/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsIz3CjQ1xegYXux9D%252bcUvtHGMXtnTQQJ0%3dPack of 5 for 25.3$ (Single @ 9.6$)

author: 3141592
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 12:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 15, 2017, 12:55:19 amThe guys at Brymen tend to be very helpful, I'm sure you'll get an answer.Quick googleing led me to this, says it's available, but I've never dealt with them:https://www.welectron.com/SIBA-701724004-Sicherung-63x32mm-04A-1000VI would just get the 700VAC 400mA version though, from TME. Or the 500mA 1kV one. Just keep the ratings in mind when using it, it's not that big of a deal for hobby uses.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 01:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: 3141592 on February 15, 2017, 12:28:03 pmThanks, but that German website link looks like they don't ship to the USA.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 01:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: mrm2007 on February 15, 2017, 04:55:55 amLooking at the 440mA Fluke branded fuse:http://www.myflukestore.com/p7925/Fluke_Fuse_440MA_1000_VB5Was not able to find the actual SIZE listed, searched other sites, odd that the length and width are not listed. But in looking at the photos, these seem more like the fatter 11a main fuses.I'm not interested nor feel I should have to modify my new meter to take a replacement fuse. Brymen should have chosen a fuse that users could actually find replacements for. Starting to regret not buying a Fluke in the first place!

author: mrm2007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 08:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 15, 2017, 01:45:39 pmHi,You are correct. Acording to this amazon page, fluke fuses are 34.9mmx10mm (larger than brymen)https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-203414-Digital-Multimeter-Replacement/dp/B007I2EERS

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 10:03:50 pm
content: I may have to risk buying them on EBay or Amazon, and hope they work properly. Brymen's website is horrible, and I've tried many sources as shown in above posts.

author: 3141592
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:31:08 am
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 15, 2017, 01:20:20 pmThey do, but worldwide shipping is expensive:https://www.welectron.com/Shipping-costI'd drop them an email asking for a lower shipping price.Quote from: MacMeter on February 15, 2017, 10:03:50 pmYou won't buy a replacement that is only 700VAC, or 1kV but 100mA higher, but consider buying Chinese fakes? This doesn't make any sense to me.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 04:33:21 pm
content: You won't buy a replacement that is only 700VAC, or 1kV but 100mA higher, but consider buying Chinese fakes? This doesn't make any sense to me.Sorry, but as I mentioned in my post #57: "The first fuse you linked is 500 mA, not 400 mA, so that's not the spec the manual calls for. I'm not electronically qualified to know if the small 100 mA difference is acceptable?"So I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how to SAFELY substitute a fuses VAC or mA rating, or both to arrive at an equal fuse rating. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm simply following the logic that the DMM designers specified a particular fuse for a reason, with safety and and liability considered. Finding the called for replacement fuse, has so far been impossible.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 07:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 15, 2017, 10:03:50 pmIf the picture is the same as the product,this ebay listingseems quite legit.I ran into a similar problem with the fuses for my Brymen BM857, but these had a slightly different rating (same size but 0,63Ax500V). I ended up buying from Amazon and they are quality fuses.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 07:39:10 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 16, 2017, 04:33:21 pm

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 04:47:36 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 16, 2017, 07:24:32 pmThanks, in fact I found the same EBay seller earlier the same day you posted. According to the sellers profile, he lives in the U.K., and the prices seemed proper, so I doubt they are fakes. I ordered a 5 pack. In the meantime I finally heard back from Brymen, of course this was after I placed the EBay order. Here is a link to the USA website that has the fuse, though the code is totally different, the specs are correct. $8.00/each is a bit more expensive then the eBay sellers price, they even have the larger 11amp fuse on the site, again the code is not a Bussmann fuse in that case, oddly enough it's the same price as the smaller .4amp fuse. Not a big deal, but I did respond back to Brymen, asking why the code is different, as I suspect it is not a SIBA brand fuse. I hope all this nonsense helps another BM235 owner that believes having a few proper spare fuses is smart.http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/FS2MAFUSE/MD319-FS2-FUSE/

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 12:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 20, 2017, 04:47:36 amThanks for the info; I can even find the fuses for my BM857 there.I agree with you; they may not be SIBA fuses.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 12:54:30 pm
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 14, 2017, 12:46:42 amIt's not really worth the hassle for me to do that myself, as you can buy them many places.I have not checked out wholesale prices of these fuses, but it wouldn't be worth my while to sell them onesies and twosies.Maybe on Amazon fullfillment perhaps, but that would have to be an at-cost service.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 01:18:04 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 13, 2017, 11:14:31 pmThat's very cheap.The SIBA by far the best fuse I've found on that size. 1000V, 30kA, and nominal 650mV drop.The Littlefuse equivalent 508 series is only 10kA and double the resistance (and 500mA only).I'm pretty sure 500mA would be OK in this application, and 10kA is plenty. I have asked Brymen. Several factors to consider though if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it. But as long as you have a fast acting ceramic of 400mA odd in there and a high enough breaking voltage for your application, no problem.I'd be curious to know if anyone else and direct equivalent to the SIBA, it seems to be a special snowflake.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 12:06:32 am
content: Local Oz rep for SIBA is AU$11.30ea, ouch.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 02:36:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 20, 2017, 12:54:30 pmIf that were truly the case for these fuses, at any rate, I would not have expected people here to be having the amount of difficulty in buying them that they seem to be having.QuoteYou might yet be able to make some profit on it via Amazon fulfillment, but that would obviously depend on the wholesale prices. Given the high retail prices you've seen, it might be worth checking out.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 02:38:03 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2017, 12:06:32 amIs that wholesale? If so, thatishigh!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 02:52:17 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on February 21, 2017, 02:36:55 amNot possible. The small volume and the time it tales to setup and sell stuff via Amazon fulfillment, import and re-export, individually bag and barcode etc.If I can get them at a good wholesale price then it might be worth bundling 5 with each new meter or something.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 02:59:04 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on February 21, 2017, 02:38:03 amOne-off.Just got the revised wholesale quote and they are AU$7.54ea (US$5.78) for 500qtySo it's cheaper for me to buy direct from a retailer in the EU (TME) one-off and import them than it is to buy 500 wholesale in Australia.TME are probable buying direct from from SIBA being in the EU, but they just fobbed me off to the Australian rep.http://www.tme.eu/en/details/zgssh-0.4a/fuses-63x32mm-super-fast/siba/701254004/

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 03:08:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2017, 02:52:17 amIncluding 2 of each type would be great, and the customer would not need to do any searching or shopping. I would always be willing to pay more up front for fuse "insurance". Since I also bought the case "kit" with my EEVBLOG BM235, you might consider bundling some spares in the case kit, an incentive to get the case with those included accessories, adjust price accordingly. That's assuming you can get them at a volume price in the first place. Both SIBA and Bussmann aren't too interested in selling individual fuses, as I found out, but not sure how much a volume order would be. I was lucky to be gifted a few of the larger 11amp Bussmann fuses, so my search was focused on the smaller .4a SIBA fuses. When I receive them from the U.K. EBay seller, I will visually inspect them, but don't have a known way to test them for authenticity, any suggestions?

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 03:14:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2017, 02:59:04 amInteresting, there was no stock on those SIBA fuses a week a go. In fact I don't remember even seeing the .4 amp version. So I wrote them, and received this response "sorry but we don't have it in our offer". Guess their CS department was/is confused. I would have bought them there.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 03:22:30 am
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 21, 2017, 03:14:26 amThe 400mA is a slightly different series. 750VAC rated at 50kA instead of 1000VDC and 30kA

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 03:28:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2017, 03:22:30 amJust testing you Dave!Nice catch, now I see it, all in the DETAILS!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 06:30:33 am
content: I just remembered the 121GW needs the same 400mA fuse. It comes with an ASTM HV610.0.4 10kA 600VBut the higher rated ASTM HV620.0.4 10kA 1000V would also be suitable for the BM235. Buggered if I can find a source for those though.http://www.astml.com/uploads/product/hv620%20series_1000vdc_20160428.pdfASTM also make a suitable 11A fusehttp://www.astml.com/uploads/product/hv110.xxa_dmi_a.pdfRealistically, 600V fuses could also be safely used in the BM235 for most applications.Manual updated with additional fuses

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 06:40:18 am
content: When I queried SIBA on the big price discrepancy, they did not know, and weren't even sure if the SIBA fuses sold by TME were genuine or not.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 06:45:30 am
content: Quote from: MacMeter on February 21, 2017, 03:08:00 amYep, working on it now. Just occurred to me to ask Brymen who almost certainly get them in huge qty at the lowest price possible.QuoteTest fuses for "genuineness" is probably tricky business.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 07:18:30 am
content: Winner winner chicken dinner, I'm ordering 1000 x ASTM HV620.0.4 fuses

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 07:48:49 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2017, 07:18:30 amDam, you're like a PIT BULL! Good on ya mate!Now get back to work on the new meter!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 08:32:02 am
content: SIBA fuses on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIBA-Fuse-7017240-6-3x32mm-Ultra-Rapid-Ceramic-Pick-Your-Rating-FF-1000V/282049300801Seems legit enough.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 11:39:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2017, 08:32:02 amSame seller quoted a few replies ago. That is what MacMeter bought.I bought also legit Siba fuses fromAmazonfor my BM857 (different fuses), but they look the real deal and at the time were supplied by Amazon themselves.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 08:37:01 pm
content: The EBay fuses were ordered last Wednesday, came today, regular mail from U.K. to USA, 6 days is fast. They are SIBA branded and visually look proper. The 5 fuses were in little plastic bag, the only protection was the very slightly paddded shipping envelope, packing could have been more protective, they seemed to have survived, guess it's time to break out the BM235, and at least continuity test em. $20.00 US, $4.00/each, not bad!

author: Welectron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 01:33:56 pm
content: Quote from: 3141592 on February 16, 2017, 09:31:08 amWe did not hear from you yet, but I saw this post and thought it would be a good idea to offer cheaper international shipping options for small items. We now introduced a cheap registered mail option for world wide shipping via German Post. Hope it is appropriate to leave a short hint here.As a side note, all our offered fuses for Brymen multimeters are directly sourced from Brymen, Taiwan.

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:03:21 pm
content: I have a high end Extech handheld multimeter that takes a big ass fast blow fuse on the uA/mA range. It takes a similar one on the Amp range, but it's hard to blow that one and it's a lot cheaper to replace. It's crazy expensive to replace that low current fuse, ridiculous really. It's easy to blow that one too. I ended up adapting a more standard size fuse with an acceptable replacement cost. Though the voltage rating on the reasonably priced replacement is 250V compared to 1kV for the original. That's fine for me since I don't use my meter for high voltage.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 06:36:05 am
content: My ASTM fuses are on the way, 400mA 1000V and 11A 1000V.Not sure how best to sell them though, as some sort of set maybe? like 5x400mA and 2x11A?For individual shipment I suppose I can just ship them in a cardboard envelope by regular post or something? Otherwise you'll be able to order on my store and include with other purchases.Not sure if it's worth having them on Amazon and ebay.I will have enough stock for the entire planet I suspect

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 06:58:17 am
content: Quote from: CraigHB on February 23, 2017, 06:03:21 pmThere is an easier solution: NEVER use the mA range!You will usually get enough resolution on the Amps range and there is virtually no problem with burden voltage.

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 04:32:13 pm
content: It depends on the meter though. I use my mA range a lot since it only goes up to 5mA on the uA range and the Amps range does not have good resolution at very low currents. But yeah the Volts/Amp burden on the uA range is high enough to keep lower voltages from blowing the fuse. The way it gets blown is I forget it's in mA mode and go to check a voltage not realizing I'm in the wrong mode. Pretty much the opposite of idiot proof, totally dependent on the user paying attention.In any case, it's kind of a kludge the way I adapt the cheap fuses. If I could get the low current ones for cheap that would be a better option. So yeah I'd be interesting in picking up some of those fuses if they are available and they're inexpensive.

author: Iceberg86300
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 08:51:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 10, 2017, 06:36:05 amI'd buy em for my crappy craftsmen meter which currently has CHEAP radio shack fuses in it.5/2 sounds pretty reasonable. If you only offer them in that configuration then I'd pay the neighbor kid to tape them to a piece of cardboard, then fold it over and tape for a cardboard-fuse-cardboard sandwich.Maybe just one piece of cardboard if you send a bunch of stuff in cardboard or padded envelopes and buy those in bulk.Poor man's blister pack essentially.Then you could just grab a "fuse card" when ordered and not have to screw around with picking out and stuffing fuses into baggies and then adding protection based on the order. Although I guess you could pay the neighbor kid to stuff a bunch of baggies as well. You just lose the inherent protection of a piece of a cardboard.

author: richhas
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2021, 03:58:14 pm
content: Are you guys still shipping these fuses? Have 2 orders into the store, 1 since first part of the year. Not successful in finding in the US... Specifically the 400ma one. Just wanted to to know what's up... Dead 121 at the moment.

author: Kazik
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 09:18:33 am
content: Hi,I looked for fuse for my Fluke 87 V.I found the following SIBA fuses.I hope that information presented below will be helpful for other colleagues.https://siba.de/en/products/fuse-detector/Dimension: 10x38 - 5019906for 11 A5019906.11https://download.siba.de/pdf/artikel/5019906.pdfDimension: 10x35 - 5021006for 440 mA5021006.0,44https://download.siba.de/pdf/artikel/5021006.pdfURZ-Sicherungen-23.pdf(103.41 kB - downloaded 25 times.)