Edible wild mushroom identification book written by AI - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2023, 03:31:38 am
content: https://www.404media.co/ai-generated-mushroom-foraging-books-amazon/Quote

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 08:46:03 pm
content: Amazon selling scam books is nothing new; it has been going on for decades. Many of them actually boast "Quality content by wikipedia articles!"This kind of "shovelware" became widespread in the 1990s as CD-ROM publishing capacity outstripped marketable content. That era saw the growth of "Freeware" CDs, where the publisher could keep 100% of the profits after manufacturing cost, without paying any author royalties. Linux CD-ROMs eventually became part of that sector.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 09:01:23 pm
content: We all know, most mushrooms are safe. Unfortunately those that aren't are very bad and are very similar to safe ones. The liver damage is disastrous. The head of the mycology laboratory (mushroom) at Mayo Clinic (circa 1970 -- 1990's) absolutely refused to eat any wild mushrooms. You would trust an Amazon/AI identification? Darwin had a point.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 09:11:53 pm
content: Wonder what could go wrong.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 10:34:43 pm
content: Yet another new and exciting dumb way to die.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 02:50:38 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 13, 2023, 09:11:53 pmMy first thought as well!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 02:56:10 am
content: Before AI, I was suckered into buying some "technical" books on Amazon that turned out to be just copy-and-paste from Wikipedia and other internet sources, collated into a paperback.However, at least the measly technical information was legitimate.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 08:24:11 am
content: Following:- Poisonous mushrooms treatment by AI.- Human authopsy by AI.- Criminal defense by AI (Representing itself).- AI found guilty, sentenced to unplugging.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 08:53:14 am
content: AI written books definitely have their place. A bot can certainly write a better book on race, gender, feminism etc. than most activists can. I'm tempted to have a go myself. I wonder how much money I could make if I identify as a trans, non-binary muslim and get AI to write a book about my lived experiance?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:14:51 am
content: ... and so the AI overthrow of the human race gains pace! Why start creating expensive Cyborgs yet when you can thin our (more foolish / adventurous?) numbers with poisonous fungi!

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:31:01 am
content: It'll be our fault, we're ignoring all the signals we were warned about in the 80s, first Boston Dynamics, now AI.Skynet and Schwarzenegger are the next, or maybe the Replicants.I don't mind Skynet, but by no way I'm getting hunted by a barbarian with a rrreally tthickk acccentt

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:53:46 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on September 14, 2023, 08:24:11 amSome of that has already happened...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65735769and many many other placesQuote

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 12:22:06 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 14, 2023, 02:56:10 amWhat could possibly go wrong?Okay, it's a notch above ChatGPT output, I give 'em that.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 01:10:21 pm
content: If you're interested in wild mushrooms ask an experienced picker to show you the edible ones and how to identify them. A book can help but you shouldn't rely on it. For example, one of the most common types are the wild relatives of the white mushroom. And they are also the hardest to identify. Even experts struggle. They can be anything from tasty to poisonous.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 01:49:01 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on September 13, 2023, 10:34:43 pmBonus: Get some extra LOLs, when the coroner finds you with this book in your hands in the middle of the woods...

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 01:59:04 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 14, 2023, 01:10:21 pmand b sure you are in the ight part of the world, afaiu quite few have died whn someone from Asia had cooked with death cap because the an edible mushroom in asia that looks similar

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 03:54:32 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on September 14, 2023, 01:49:01 pmIt is much slower than that, but at least you have time to say goodbye to your family.Some fungal toxins give you gangrene (and are used in medicines).Many fungal toxins make you feel sick after 6 hours, so you go to hospital. Unfortunately by then you have absorbed it all. After 18 hours you start to feel less unwell. And after a few days your liver gives out and you die.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 08:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 14, 2023, 03:54:32 pmHave you ever wondered why squirrels (and probably groundhogs) can eat them with wild abandon?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:01:27 pm
content: It is indeed curious how creatures with, on the face of it, similar digestive systems can suffer from different poison tolerances. Taking dogs as an example, consumption of relatively small quantities of the onion family, and most mushrooms can prove fatal through liver and kidney failure whilewecan eat them with wild abandon. Other animals have different tolerances and toxic sensitivities. Small differences in Liver enzymes seem to be the cause, but as to why...I suppose some of these effects could be down to the onging war between plants and the animals trying to eat them over the milenia probably have something to do with it, but there are some odd combinations and I think most of these wars involve insect pests rather than larger animals.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:14:33 pm
content: @GyroAbsolutely fascinating how toxins, including capsaicin, evolved as survival advantages and were selected. Capsaicin has no effect on birds. Why? It is postulated that they don't have molars, so the seeds pass through and propagate; whereas. mammals do, chew the seeds, and inhibit propagation.Now as for squirrels?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 11:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 14, 2023, 03:54:32 pmAnd some Cortinarius genus mushrooms have toxic effect appear only after a few days to a few weeks when your kidneys give up and you and doctors will have no clue about the root cause.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 01:45:07 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 14, 2023, 11:51:16 pmDidn't know that.It isn't surprising that a Latvian has better information about fungi; foraging for fungi is regarded as a wierd activity, best left to "The Continentals"!

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 04:01:07 am
content: Quote from: madires on September 14, 2023, 01:10:21 pmYeah, it's kind of ironic that the most iconic mushroom of commerce is also one of the most dubious in the wild. Domestication go figure, I suppose.Personally, I know very little about mushrooms; enough to know not to risk them. I've positively identified a handful of species of interest, and seen dozens of others either less interesting, or just so hard to describe or identify. Among those, is actually one such relative: meadow mushroom. Of which the pink gills are fairly diagnostic, so, there you have it. Probably the only white thing I'll ever touch is giant puffball; if it's a white cap, just leave it be.Tim

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 08:12:52 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 15, 2023, 01:45:07 amMy father knows them fairly well - however there is not much to gather these days. Back then (when I was a kid) we ran around on the farmland in the village (northern Germany) and collected heaps of mushrooms. While the farmland is still there and is still the same, there are no mushrooms. I wonder if they have been killed by the plentiful use of fungizides for farming crops.However we noticed the same in Denmark. While the forests had plenty of fungi some decades ago, they are pretty rare now. Which is a shame.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 09:03:52 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on September 15, 2023, 08:12:52 amAs trees age their mycorrhizal partner fungi change and not nearly all of them form a fruiting body you'd consider mushrooms. So it's not necessarily have anything to do with human activity.This year I found Aureoboletus projectellus which recently arrived from North America and now quickly spreading through Europe.Here is a giant puffball I found this summer.And here are some more normal mushrooms I pick.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 09:04:54 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on September 15, 2023, 08:12:52 amThey typically prefer undisturbed unimproved unmanaged land.If fungi disappear, we are in serious trouble - they are responsible for breaking down most organic matter before the components can be recycled.As for frequency, that's always difficult to assess. Presuming you see them less often, that could also be due to more people picking them and/or cars meaning people can travel further to find them. true in the UK due to TV/etc programmes and particularly because there are far more (knowledgeable) Eastern Europeans (traditional "competition": Poles and Czechs) living here, despite brexit.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 09:07:59 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 15, 2023, 09:03:52 amOh hell. This is going to end up like the TEA group: full of "porn"

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 04:18:24 pm
content: Almost all of the "commercial" mushrooms are decay fungi that break down dead matter such as roots of dying trees. So they can be easily grown on sterilized wood chips or rice hulls.Many foraged mushrooms are mycorrhizal, so they can only ever grow in association with living trees. There is no way to grow them artificially either. Healthy caution is a good thing, but picking doesn't require encyclopedic knowledge: some easily recognized families (boletes, chanterelles, morels) have no poisonous members.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 10:24:21 pm
content: Quote from: helius on September 15, 2023, 04:18:24 pmThere are poisonous boletes, such as Satans bolete, although I'm not aware of any that are deadly poisonous. Overall boletes are the safest to forage, you just need to know a few that aren't good. Chanterelles have a poisonous Jack-o’lantern lookalike, haven't seen those IRL though. Some people confuse morels with Gyromitra which in Russia are edible after boiling and discarding the broth, and barely poisonous even raw. However can be deadly poisonous when grow in western part of Europe.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 12:48:15 am
content: Yes, Gyromitra (false morels) contain hydrazines. Great for rockets, not so much for eating. They have a netted surface similar to true morels, but the overall shape is totally different (saddle shaped).I had forgotten about the Jack-O-Lantern, thanks for reminding me. It has definitely been confused with chanterelles, although there are some features that identify it easily (unforked gills, and it glows in the dark!)The red-mouthed bolete is also poisonous, as you said, although I don't think it has ever caused serious illness or death.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 02:46:19 pm
content: What's so dangerous is some poisonous mushrooms taste good.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 03:43:26 pm
content: People have been consuming mushrooms for thousand years. It is just not a thing in North America. NA has to educate itself.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 04:08:50 pm
content: The Cook County Forest Preserves in the Chicago area are foraged for mushrooms, especially by people of Bohemian descent, although removing any plant material from the Preserves is strictly forbidden by statute.https://chicagomushroomman.wordpress.com/2023/08/04/cook-county-forest-preserves-claim-foragers-are-destroying-native-plants/https://fpdcc.com/about/rules-regulations/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 07:17:27 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 16, 2023, 04:08:50 pmIf only they knew fungi are not plants. And removing fruiting bodies (mushrooms) does not harm fungi either. They would rot after a few days anyway.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 07:37:16 pm
content: Probably, the statutes follow the older definition of fungi as part of the "plant kingdom".Even so, the FAQ I cited states: "The collection of mushrooms, plants, animals or any natural or cultural item is prohibited." Perhaps you can collect mould if you have a good lawyer.There was a famous Supreme Courtlegaldecision classifying the tomato as a vegetable (rather than fruit)in tariff lawbecause it was normally consumed like a vegetable, not like an apple."Before the introduction of molecular methods for phylogenetic analysis, taxonomists considered fungi to be members of the plant kingdom because of similarities in lifestyle: both fungi and plants are mainly immobile, and have similarities in general morphology and growth habitat. Although inaccurate, the common misconception that fungi are plants persists among the general public due to their historical classification, as well as several similarities." (Wikipedia)Apparently, the modern taxonomic definition of fungi as a separate kingdom dates back to around 1980.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 07:39:44 pm
content: When I was a child, we used to pick mushrooms and can them. (Midwest US)Aureoboletus projectellus was one of them easily found in coniferous forests, but their "Inky Cap" cousins were more common. We did not eat Inkys although the Inky Cap mushrooms were not considered poisonous. They are really cool though, Fun to watch them turn black when cut.We only picked the mushrooms that we knew to be safe. Sometimes we would bring some unknown species home and show them to older relatives to see if they could be identified. We did have some books also which were of some help.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 07:52:20 pm
content: Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on September 27, 2023, 07:39:44 pmCoprinus comatus (shaggy ink cap, lawyer's wig) is easily recognised and edible (but not worth it)isCoprinus atramentarious contains antabuse, which is only a problem when alcohol is consumed. It has been used as a treatment for alcoholism.QuoteWell, yes, but... The problem is when you don't recognise that you don't recognise it! Small death caps look similar to small edible fumgi.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 08:41:12 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 16, 2023, 07:17:27 pmDoes it not reduce the fungi's ability to reproduce? I would have thought removing the fruiting body before it has released its spore would impair its ability to spread.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 07:17:27 pm
content: "Fruiting body" implies a structure analogous (functionally the same) to a fruit. What is the evolutionary purpose of fruit? Specifically, why go to the expense of making a fruit when the seed is the only reproductive part?Once you've answered that question, you would understand why removing mushrooms helps, rather than hinders, the fungi's reproduction.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 07:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on September 27, 2023, 08:41:12 pm30 years long study in Switzerland has shown there is no harm from foraging whatsoever.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 05:04:34 am
content: Don't worry, fungi are very likely to outlive our species by a large margin, unless of course we blow the planet up entirely, but according to some studies, that would take an enormous amount of energy that would be out of our reach completely.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2023, 05:36:15 pm
content: There is a fungus among us:

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2023, 07:08:18 pm
content: Here's a little beauty that appeared in my lawn Saturday. Initially, I thought it was a pile of leaves. Sunday, I got a closer look, and the picture is this afternoon. It's at least 10 inches across and too beautiful to eat. It still amazes me how fast they can grow.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 04:44:28 pm
content: At a guess, that may be Psathyrella delineata.But I would not, of course, advocate eating any little brown gilled mushroom for obvious reasons (they can sometimes be hard to tell from Galerina spp which include deadly species)

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 07:25:35 pm
content: I only eat mushrooms from reputable sources. Dried Italian porcini are one of my favorites for cooking. I got a bargain on Amazon of "imported" dried porcini. Ended up they were imported from China (obviously not in the listing). Tasted awful, and I threw them all out. Amazon is not a reputable source for mushrooms, unless you go for Reese's in a can.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 07:40:21 pm
content: Hah, yes. I would probably be more willing to buy opamps from Amazon than mushrooms!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 08:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on October 03, 2023, 07:25:35 pm"Imported": at Japanese restaurants in the US, some of the Japanese beer with "imported" on the label is made under license in Canada, so no legal offense has been committed.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 08:19:59 pm
content: I don't worry about Canadian Molson's beer at Japanese restaurants; I worry about importedDiphyllobothrium latumin the sushi.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 10:29:43 pm
content: Would I be right in thinking it is pure chance that edible mushrooms have ever existed at all? Fruits are edible because the plant evolved to use various animal's guts as a transport mechanism for seeds to newgrowing grounds, but I don't think any mushrooms intend on being consumed as a means of seed transport? The advantage for going for fruit then is that most were evolved to be safe to eat, and any that aren't* would probably taste bad before you swallowed, plus different fruit species in the UK atleast, are prety distinct in appearance.*being safe for some targeted seed carrier animal, but incompatible with specifically human digestive processesAs someone who forages for various fruits, but not mushrooms, I have the pleasure also of being able to snack on them right there in situ, not picking something you have to carry home to cook later.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 11:08:40 pm
content: I suppose it's conceivable that spores might be built to survive a digestive system. This paper,https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2478712/suggests such a mechanism for yeasts vs. fruit flies.The environmental pressure of mammals, gastropods, or invertebrates is probably relatively low overall, with adequate tolerance, avoidance, and chemical deterrence (poison) strategies in place. Examples: inedibly dense/hard/thick/fibrous fruiting bodies; fruiting rapidly (within some days), dropping spores and retreating (or decaying) quickly (e.g. ink caps that rapidly decay to slime); and of course the many unpalatable, inedible and toxic kinds, ranging from nuisance chemicals to outright systemic poisons (whether intentionally by direct evolutionary pressure, or accidentally versus unrelated species by random coincidence).It may also be that many fungi are simply successful enough overall, or prodigious enough per fruiting body, or have a high enough germination rate, that conservation efforts really aren't necessary; sort of the nutritional equivalent of dumping a couple bucks onto Amazon/eBay/Ali in the full expectation that you've wasted your money, and any product of value you eventually get in return is merely a bonus. That is, whatever energy and resources went into producing the fruiting body, was already excess stored up and able to be spent, regardless of its ultimate success.Tim

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 11:23:28 pm
content: @InfravioletHave you read the theory of why some plants have capsaicin in their seeds and others do not? I find it intriguing, but won't spoil it for you. Hint, only mammals are susceptible to capsaicin.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2023, 04:46:47 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 03, 2023, 11:08:40 pmSome exploit the digestive system. Consider the lifecycle of Cordyceps militaris: caterpillar eats spore, spore eats caterpillar. I wash my hands needlessly carefully after picking themThere's also the Chinese medicine Ophiocordyceps sinensis

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2023, 01:02:31 pm
content: There is also Bacillus popilliae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_spore) that can be used to get rid of grubs. A friend and I had planned to try to get it to sporulate in vitro on a commercial scale. Unfortunately, he was severely disabled in an accident, and we couldn't continue that work. That was in the 1980's. By now, others may have succeeded.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 02:44:05 am
content: One of those books just claimed several victims.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:12:39 am
content: Not good.When you buy a reference book, I think you need to check who the author is, and check the credentials of that author.And of course, there will need to be laws in place to require books with non-human authors to be clearly identified as such with an obvious disclaimer. Cigarette packets have a warning: "Smoking cigarettes can seriously damage your health." AI generated books should have a legally mandated warning: "Any and all content in this book might be fiction. Do not trust anything it says."

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 04:11:26 am
content: Maybe it's natural selection through artificial intelligence.Odd days.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 04:22:06 am
content: New Zealand is a pretty safe place to be, but even here every few years you read in the news that some tourists, usually from china, went on a nature walk and came across some mushrooms, cooked them up for dinner and put their entire group in hospital.I don't recall any of them dying but yeah, not good.The Poison pie mushroom (Hebeloma crustuliniforme) can look similar to the typical edible field/meadow mushroomhttps://www.trufflesandmushrooms.co.nz/Some%20poisonous%20forest%20mushrooms%20w.pdf