What is so great about 3M breadboards? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Rene
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 08:13:12 pm
content: Hello,I was looking into replacing my cheese breadboard with a higher quality one. The breadboards that always seem to come up as the best quality ones are the 3M branded ones.The thing is that they are a LOT more expensive that the somewhat descent breadboards out there so I was curious if someone could tell me what are the extra benefits that I get when purchasing a 3M branded board (if any)?Thanks.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 08:16:19 pm
content: More robust spring contacts - both in material quality and durability.Better physical tolerances resulting in fewer mis-insertions.Better quality plastics - less give and wear, higher durability.

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 08:31:01 pm
content: Agree with all of the above. They are solid and last longer than the cheapies.I was able to find a few used on eBay in great condition, for not much more than the cost of the typical cheap BBs.They do have non-standard spacing between the ground/power rails which can sometimes be annoying if you ever plug header connectors into the ground/power rails.

author: Rene
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 08:32:31 pm
content: Thanks guys,I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.One question I forgot to ask (and the answer is probably "it depends")...... Are the boards worth the price?In other words, at what point does this extra quality start to make a real difference? Under what circumstances would you tell someone to go and buy a 3M board instead of one of the standard ones?I am only asking because my standard board seems to be holding on pretty good. So is this similar to buying a Honda Civic vs a Mercedes Benz where the Honda is good enough for most practical purposes and the Benz quality is only needed in very particular circumstances?Thanks.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 09:14:02 pm
content: You kinda have to think of bread boards as disposable. After so many insertions, the contact seem to go weak (espically with something like a diode with thick leads. Nothing is more annoying then trouble shooting a problem with your circuit only to find it's a bad breadboard connection.Some of the cheap Chinese ones are total crap. I like buying the big ones - it give you room to grow a project - or you can have several small projects at once.I've had good luck with these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRUM-EXTERNALLY-POWERED-SOLDERLESS-3220-TIE-POINTS-BREADBOARD-W-JUMPER-WIRES-/271822825429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49e727d5

author: ElectricGuy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 11:35:45 pm
content: Believe me ( and others ), if you buy one, you will notice the difference!!!

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 12:05:41 am
content: QuoteIf you wanna go cheap (or big), you much better buy the boards directly from china with free shipping. The cheapest cost around $2.50 per board (board with power rail). I guess pretty much everyone can find a crappy cardboard/metal/plywood panel to mount these onto.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 01:16:18 am
content: BTW, here's a pretty good price on the 3M jumper wire kit. Well worth it, IMHO.http://tedss.com/2098000048

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 02:09:16 am
content: Where to buy them in Europe? I had disastrous results with cheap ones in combinational circuits practicesDo they have replaceable parts?

author: Rene
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 02:14:52 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 25, 2015, 01:16:18 amFunny you mention jumper wires because as I was shopping around for 3M breadboard, I stumbled upon a 3M jumper wire kit in digikey:http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?mpart=923351-I&vendor=19That particular kit retails for $46 so I must admit I had a mini heart attack when I saw that price. Are 3M wires really that better? I can find what look like similar kits for $10! What makes the 3M wires so special?Thanks.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 02:32:32 am
content: The one I posted is significantly less. It's the only reason I bought it. It's definitely not $50 worth of wire, but for $25 it's a nice kit. It's really almost worth it just for the box. Yes, the wire actually IS better. At least it's better than the other junk I have here. Thicker insulation, perhaps? I'm not sure why, but it's definitely stiffer and easier to work with than typical cheap jumper wire. Maybe it's a slightly thicker gauge? It could be that my other, cheap, jumper wire is just particularly crappy, and that the 3M stuff is normal.When it's all nice and organized in the box, things go so much faster and easier, that's for sure.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 02:58:42 am
content: Quote from: ElectricGuy on June 24, 2015, 11:35:45 pmI have been using the same 3M boards for the better part of 20-25 years. Worth the extra money - yep!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 04:51:25 am
content: Quote from: w2aew on June 24, 2015, 08:16:19 pmI'd have to agree with this as well.Quality wise, I'd rate manufacturers in the following order:3MGlobal SpecialtiesDo note they make both a tier 1 & tier 2 product line. Their tier 2 offerings aren't garbage by any means, but not quite as good as the tier 1 they make or 3M offers (i.e. PB-103 v. PB-103E has an MSRP difference of $19; E in the P/N is the giveaway between them). Not sure what the differences are (can't discern them from the specs), but I suspect the metal used to make the contacts is a tad thinner in the tier 2 line (IIRC, they weren't as stiff when new, but that's been awhile). US made last I saw.WisherThey make multiple lines as well, so you'll definitely be able to find something that will fit your needs. Similar to the Economy series from Global IMHO. Made in Taiwan.If you can get 3M at the right price, go for it (i.e. NOS on eBay, or *possibly* gently used <not worn out> if you can find it). At full price for new, that's a tough one (hard on a hobbyist; easier on professionals as it helps earn an income <doesn't mean they like the prices, but can justify the purchase>)... I'd try for Global Specialties instead, or if your budget can't handle 3M at all (Mouser carries them for example). Don't go lower than Wisher if you're after something better than the cheapies you're currently familiar with (these also get rebranded, such as for Radio Shack).Couple of other points:If you stay under the max wire size rating, that will help reduce wear on the contacts & extend it's usable lifespan (they are wear items as previously mentioned).Wisher's jumper wire bags & kits are a more reasonable alternative to 3M's IME, and meet the above ^ recommendation.For disclosure, I've a 3M (so old it's metal plate is painted blue, not red). Gold anodized is even older IIRC, and many are still around (including ACE or A.C.E + breadboard in your eBay searches might turn up more listings).

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 09:44:19 am
content: For jumper wire kits - ONLY go with "dupont" male-male connectors. They are square, and you can put them side by side. The cheaper round ones are greater then 0.1" so they will start to go wonkey after about 10 in a row. Also the "dupont" style ones are crimped and fail way less often.Another tip is when you are done with your project, and you clean the bread board of all parts and jumpers, before you put the jumpers away, test each jumper with your multimeter. Takes just a second with DMM set to "tone" for continuity. The jumpers can fail as well. Then blow compressed air over the breadboard, and if you're storing it, store it upside down to keep dust from getting into the holes.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 10:29:38 am
content: If you want a happy middle ground, I still have my original Jameco breadboards since I got into electronics 17 years ago. They're pretty good for quality, not 3M exceptional but also not 3M price.I.e.http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_20812_-1

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 10:38:39 am
content: Are there top quality breadboards with replaceable parts?That could make them very interesting to choose, as I hate the wear and fixing items could be a saving in the long term.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 10:40:31 am
content: No.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 11:21:09 am
content: The BOSS industrial mouldingsBIMBOARDrange was an excelent high quality breadboard which had replaceable contact strips, with a removable plastic back panel. Unfortunately they became CamdenBoss and no longer make breadboards, but if you see any used ones that don't look too ratty or any NOS for sale, they are certainly worth considering.Distorted contacts can easily be removed by removing the back and pushing them out from the top with a stiff (but thin) wire and reformed using a pair of long needle nose pliers and if badly distorted, a screwdriver of the right diameter to form the curve at the top around. If you see a BIMBOARD in poor condition at a good price, buy it for spares!Other breadboards can usually be serviced in a similar manner but the usual sticky backing is a pain to remove and usually will have to be replaced with sticky back Fablon or similar. Again a spare ratty board of exactly the same make is useful to have to rob for spares.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 11:30:22 am
content: Quote from: george graves on June 25, 2015, 09:44:19 amCould you show what you mean by "dupont" connectors?

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 11:49:23 am
content: Google for it.https://www.google.com/search?q=dupont+bread+board+connectors

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 12:00:02 pm
content: Actually, the key to take from this is check the maximum external diameter of the jumper ends. Its also worth checking the actual pin diameter - anything over that of a turned pin socket is likely to strain the contacts.IMHO most jumper kits aren't worth having. Simply use salvaged CAT5 UTP etherrnet wire or solid phone wire of the same thickness. (*DONT* use stranded CAT5 patchlead wire.) Its thin enough to avoid contact damage, is easy to cut, strip and bend and unlike premade jumpers, can be cut to the correct length to keep the circuit layout neat. It also fits well in ordinary turned pin IC sockets, which is a great convenience when you want to interface to any assembled module or development board that's not suitable for direct breadboard mounting.If you do need to connect stranded wires to a breadboard, its easy enough to solder the wire inline to a pin salvaged from a 0.1" pitch square pin header and heatshrink over it to make a nice breadboard compatible end. Its certainly worth making up a set of leads for your meter with breadboard compatible ends.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 12:19:41 pm
content: Quote from: george graves on June 25, 2015, 11:49:23 amThat shows the jumper wires. I'm looking for specifically which connector is being used...actual part numbers so I can order them. I haven't been able to find that.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 02:27:59 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 25, 2015, 12:19:41 pmI believe Dupont is a genericized name for these. If you google '1x1 0.1" crimp housing' you should find the plastic housings, for example fromPololu.Pololu also sellmaleandfemalecrimp pins, as well as housings with multiple ways.For some reason I can't find 1x1 housings at major distributors such as Farnell, Digikey and Mouser, but they stock 1x2 and larger housings and crimp pins from various manufacturers. For example, housings fromMulticomp(Farnell own brand).

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 03:42:50 pm
content: I've tried different styles of crimp pins in the past. They always seemed too big. That's why I was so interested in the specific part number. I have a set of wires here I got from somewhere...wish I could remember where. They're perfect, but I've never been able to find the actual pin that they use. Maybe I'll post a picture later and someone will recognize them.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 08:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on June 25, 2015, 12:00:02 pmDitto that! This is what I use 90% of the time. Dirt cheap "custom" solution. Also, some solid core small gauge ordinary insulated, tinned hookup wire works great too. I never really saw a need for the plastic/rubber cuffs or collars at the ends of the wires.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 09:20:16 pm
content: Quote from: Rene on June 25, 2015, 02:14:52 amPersonally I really like those [ or "staple" shaped color-coded jumper wires in pre-formed 0.1" increments for neat breadboard work.I don't think there's anything special about 3M wire, though - you should be able to find (and can find) cheap generic equivalents.22 AWG is good for breadboard use, though - it's a bit more reliable than the thinner wires.(24 AWG Cat5 or telephone wire etc is OK, it's usable, but 22AWG makes things a little more solid.)Do you really want to use a 15cm wire with DuPont-style crimp pins when you need a 0.4" breadboard jumper? No thanks.Those DuPont-style crimp wires are often valuable though, eg. for off-board connections to the breadboard.Digikey stocks the 3M 923345xxx, 200-packs in each size.http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/923345-04-C/923345-04-ND/12170I *could* buy one pack of each size, and have enough breadboard jumpers to last a lifetime, but I can't really justify $250 worth of breadboard jumpers.Very tempting. Is there anywhere (say the Chinese e-commerce sector) where bulk quantities of these jumper wires can be had cheaper?I don't really care about the plastic case... I've already got one that can be topped up, they seem to have a lot of spare room in them relative to the number of wires supplied.In my experience with the plastic tray kits (eg. 3M or generic equivalent) the long ones (eg. 2" or 3") never get used, (use a flexible wire with DuPont pins if you need that), so it's also pointless buying the tray kits when half the wire in the kit goes unused and it's the small ones that are heavily used.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 11:04:15 pm
content: I've had good luck with these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRUM-EXTERNALLY-POWERED-SOLDERLESS-3220-TIE-POINTS-BREADBOARD-W-JUMPER-WIRES-/271822825429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49e727d5http://www.aliexpress.com/item/tradebus-No-Welding-Solderless-Breadboard-Plate-3220-Tie-points-Test-Circuit-Board-ZY-208-24-hours/2003340373.htmlI.e.http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_20812_-1all look the same to me, I ordered the middle one because it was the easiest and cheapest

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 04:08:10 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on June 30, 2015, 11:04:15 pmThe last one is definitely a Wisher (check the datasheet).

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 05:16:28 am
content: All breadboards suck---some just suck less than others!

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 05:20:35 am
content: I never use breadboard.I make my own single sided testboards instead.All the components and wirings are soldered on the copper side of the board, so bad contacts never occurs.I use the components with long wires and I can reuse them after desoldering.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 12:12:23 pm
content: Neat boards. You should sell them. Maybe even do a kickstarter

author: commie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 06:55:22 pm
content: I got some 3m boards from Digikey, a couple of years ago, however I found them very difficult to use, what I mean is stripped back solid core wire just crunches up when you try and push the wire into a hole on the board. If you can get your jumper wire in then a very good connection is made granted.I found it just too difficult to use so I settled for an alternative make (Twin Industries), cheaper and dead easy to connect jumper wires, if anything a bit too easy. I've worn out a couple of boards from past use, but they are only about £6 each from Mouser.and they do last a couple of years and with that I'm happy

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 07:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: commie on July 01, 2015, 06:55:22 pmYou have to break the 3M boards in. I go through and insert a jumper wire in each of the holes before first use, and from then on they are perfect. I prefer this over the cheapies that have too-weak contacts inside.I just bought a couple more from this eBay seller and received them yesterday:http://www.ebay.com/itm/200668490915

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 07:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: Rene on June 25, 2015, 02:14:52 amI don't blame you for having a heart attack. Despite I have old CAT5 cables and eventually cut wires to size, I found out that wire kits speed up the prototyping. I have been using the wire kit below for years without problems.http://www.frys.com/product/4612398I also have two of the breadboards below and I haven't yet had a problem.http://www.frys.com/product/3849287Obviously that I solder thin wires when I need to slap the occasional TO-220, TO-236 or TO-3, but the 1N4000-series diodes and their somewhat thicker leads did not yet cause trouble to the contacts. Same as beefier electrolytic capacitors and 10W power resistors.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 08:17:51 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on July 01, 2015, 07:50:08 pmYou can use many TO-220 and similar packages directly in breadboards by turning the leads axially through 90 degrees with a pair of needle-nose pliers. Since the contact wipers normally run parallel to the 5-pin strips this puts much less stress on the springs. It typically reduces the effective width from around 0.9 mm to 0.5 mm.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 08:21:49 pm
content: +1 for twisting the legs.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 09:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: XFDDesign on June 25, 2015, 10:29:38 amYes. The Jameco ones are rebranded "wish" or "wisher" brand. These things are great. I've got a whole bunch and use them a ton, no problems at all.I've never had a 3M breadboard, they are just way too pricy.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 09:52:41 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on July 01, 2015, 08:17:51 pmHehe... Yeah, I know. I just like to keep my TO-220s tidy... O0

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2015, 02:42:11 am
content: I usually stick the TO-220s etc. into Vector T-49 clips.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2015, 10:55:59 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 02, 2015, 03:30:41 amIf I had a small single 3M on the cheap, I'd be willing (do have an unused cheap Chinese board I can sacrifice).Unfortunately, the cheapest one I found on digikey is the 212R distribution strip @ $16.13, and I'm certainly not going to destroy one of the strips on my ACE 127 (now the 327).$5 or less for a 3M, and I'd be game (yes, I'm a cheapskate for stuff I plan to ruin/destroy).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2015, 12:17:47 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on July 01, 2015, 07:50:08 pmI still have my wire kit from my ITT days. It is probably from Elenco also. I ended up getting a second kit because we built rather large projects and I was paranoid about running out. They work just fine. I also have the plastic coated tip wires and prefer the old school wires. I would not have the patience to make up that many wires from cat 5 cable, though I do have enough of it around that I could make plenty from.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2015, 12:26:47 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on July 01, 2015, 08:17:51 pmNo need to twist them, just squeeze them hard....or just bend the outer legs in opposite directions and put it in diagonally.

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2015, 04:10:46 pm
content: 3M ACE 336 boards half off at Farnell (US).10.25"x7.25" 3648 Tie Points $85http://www.newark.com/3m/922336/breadboard-back-plate-terminal/dp/92F1464

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2015, 11:12:07 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on August 03, 2015, 04:10:46 pmYou might want to create a thread in the Buy/Sell/Wanted section (expect more people would see it).