Harddrives - nice pictures - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 09:10:16 pm
content: Hi all,I did some high resolution pictures of two old WD Caviar harddrives (22100 and 22500).Of course with some die Pictures too.If you are interested go to:http://www.richis-lab.de/HDD_WD_Caviar_22100.htmhttp://www.richis-lab.de/HDD_WD_Caviar_22500.htmText is german...Have fun!Greetings,Richard

author: simxdx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 12:39:50 am
content: ，Very clear pictures！

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 04:46:44 am
content: Nice picturesWonder how much tinier is reading head now in Terabyte sizes and how weak signal it produces compared to back then

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 05:08:21 am
content: Thanks!I have some newer models lying around here.Coming soon...I don´t know if you can compare the signals of an old device to a newer one. The technology changed a lot as far as I´m informed...

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 11:37:43 am
content: Quote from: Miyuki on May 15, 2019, 04:46:44 amThe signal is not so much smaller, in fact it was rather the progress in the reading head technology (AMR,GMR,TMR...) giving more signal strength that allowed increasing areal density. For example the development by IBM of new heads based on the GMR effect in the 90's allowed to break the technological limitations of the previous AMR generation (still used in WD Caviar models, WD acquired the GMR technology from IBM circa 1998).

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2019, 03:14:28 pm
content: Quote from: pwlps on May 15, 2019, 11:37:43 amI know most of the capacity progress is trough narrower more dense packed tracks as speed and linear density goes up no more than 10 times from that 90s drives but total density skyrocketed and have exponential growthBut still they must now processing signal in GHz ranges from head as they get about 200MB/s data rate

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 04:25:51 pm
content: Interesting.This kinda reminded me of Hebrew, though it doesn't seem to correspond directly to the Hebrew alphabet. And IBM did do both semiconductor and disk drive research in Haifa.If you flip it (attached) it looks very much like a stylized kind of Hebrew.

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 06:32:07 pm
content: My first opinion was also hebrew.Interesting idea to flip the symbols.

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 02:46:17 pm
content: Hi all!I have posted some new pictures. This time a hard disk with a GMR-Head.Whole story here:http://www.richis-lab.de/HDD_Samsung_SV4003H.htmHave fun!...perhaps you are interested in a floppy drive too:http://www.richis-lab.de/floppy.htmEventually very similar just bigger...

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 08:23:55 pm
content: News on my homepage:A Western Digital Red 3TBhttps://www.richis-lab.de/HDD_WD_RED_3TB.htmPiezos in the pick up and heaters in the head. What a crazy shit.A interesting thing:Till now I had two WD Red 3TB with bad SMART values.The boards in both hard disks seem to have a corrosion problem:In my opinion they use galvanic silver. Cheap and good with BGA but problematic regarding corrosion.Very bad when you want ot use spring contacts forvery fastsignals:I would have chosen gold!Have fun!

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 04:22:58 pm
content: And again a new HDD!See the details of aSeagate ST-177I:https://www.richis-lab.de/HDD_Seagate_ST-177I.htmEverything a little bit bigger:Of course with die Pictures:Have fun!

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 10:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: Noopy on September 20, 2019, 08:23:55 pmDo you remember the WD Red silver tarnish thing?After a lot of time and a query WD gave me the following answer:"Thank you for waiting for our reply. Our engineers have studied your reports and inform us thus.We would like to apologize for any trouble this has caused you. After review the surface of the PCB shows silver tarnish which is not a functional or reliability issue. This is expected as the surface finish is silver. ..."With a little help of Google you find a lot of information regarding the rising resistance of silver tarnish.I can´t imaging that shouldn´t be an issue.We will see whether I will get a better answer the next days... ...weeks...

author: Prehistoricman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 11:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 04, 2020, 10:46:50 pmI've seen quite a few HDD PCBs with this look. I think one had issues before I gave the contacts a good scrubbing.Amazing pics. I love the look of the platter on that old Seagate.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 11:29:02 pm
content: I have that silver finish on 4 WD green hard drives, after one completely died, I had to clean all the other drives PCBs.Failure mode is this:1. Controller gets bad/weak signals from the heads, assumes it's just a bad sector.2. Controller moves the data to another part of the drive, and marks the original sector as bad.3. Error rates get worse, controller moves more files, marks more sectors as bad.4. After days/weeks of this, whenever the computer is on the drive has activity.5. Actual disk surface has damage from constant moving of files.6. Drive has more bad sector than it can mark.7. Attempt to reformat drive as last resort after saving data.8. Reports over 10,000 unrecoverable bad sectors, marks them as bad then crashes.9. Reboot shows drive as totally unavailable, to the BIOS!10. Totally bricked.

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 11:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 04, 2020, 11:20:35 pm"Unfortunately" I had to disassemble the HDD before I tried to clean the contacts.I have four of them left all around five years old. If they ever give bad SMART-values I´ll try some cleaning first.Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 04, 2020, 11:20:35 pmThanks! Good feedback is always a reason to do more pictures.Quote from: station240 on January 04, 2020, 11:29:02 pmSounds absolutely reasonable.I´m curious wheter I´ll get a better answer from WD than the last one.But ok, what should they write? "Hey, we screwed up. Sorry!"They design such technical wonderful things and than they mess with the PCB-finish...

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 12:36:49 am
content: You are giving me ideas for photos withy my macro lens. Like most of you, I have more HDD's than you can shake a stick at.

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 12:38:23 am
content: Quote from: Noopy on May 14, 2019, 09:10:16 pm

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 12:51:16 am
content: I have few WD Black 1TB (FAEX) disks that have silver tarnish on PCB pads as well. Used to take controller PCB out, clean pads with erases, put it back together and until next few month it worked fine. After doing this for few times, ditched the drives and bought Toshiba HDDs and Intel SSDs.

author: Wimberleytech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 03:54:55 am
content: Very nice work!! Have you reversed any old Quantum drives?What are you using to decap the plastic packages? HF?

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 08:24:58 am
content: Thanks!A quantum drive would be interesting too! Till now I had none but Ebay will help...The decapping was done with a torch. With a little practise that gives 70-80% good dies depending on the type of chip.The pics were taken with a "normal" dslr with a reversed 10mm objective and "balgen"-rings.I have posted the how-to:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/decapping-and-chip-documentation-howto/msg2666622/

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 08:28:05 am
content: Not even sure if HF would work at all, hot nitric or sulfuric is the usual choice.Even if it works, it would certainly eat the glass passivation layer afterwards and possibly the aluminium underneath(?)

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 10:32:10 am
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 05, 2020, 08:24:58 amThe magnefication and the quality of the pictures is not as good as possible with a >10k€-Zeiss-Monster but I can easily tilt the objects.The focus depth is very small but often I can take very nice pictures this way:https://www.richis-lab.de/IC_02.htm

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 10:54:20 am
content: Nice dust spots in the upper left

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 11:36:14 am
content: what do use for taking pics like these?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 11:42:21 am
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 05, 2020, 08:24:58 am

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 02:01:00 pm
content: Quote from: magic on January 05, 2020, 10:54:20 amI have to clean my dslr sensor...But I´m not sure whether you can get rid of every dust spot with this kind of setup.Quote from: legacy on January 05, 2020, 11:36:14 amLong story short:Take a reflex camera (I have a Canon EOS 60D),mount a lens reversed on the camera (to achieve this take a "retro adapter" // the shorter den lens the better, I have a 10-22mm),mount distance rings between the camera and the reversed lens as long as the picture gets not too bad.And there you have your microscope:Magnification factor 30:1 but with 18 Megapixel! That is 120:1 for 1,2 Megapixel.I can resolve 10µm without problems. Mostly 5µm is also no Problem. Beyond 5µm sometimes you can see somethin sometimes you have to guess and sometimes you loose...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/decapping-and-chip-documentation-howto/msg2666622/

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 02:17:04 pm
content: Beautiful pictures. Thanks for sharing!

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 02:34:44 pm
content: Thank you and everybody else for the positive feedback.That is one reason to take more pictures!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 02:47:58 pm
content: Beautiful pics, thanks.Did you tried focus stacking (to increase depth of field)?

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 02:54:35 pm
content: I should do some focus stacking, absolutely right.Till now I´m not very familiar with image postprocessing. Only quick&easy HDR-conversion and a a little tonal correction.Do you have a good suggestion for a image-stacking-program?

author: Wimberleytech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 03:40:15 pm
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 05, 2020, 08:24:58 amI was the design manager (and designer) for the read-channel chip on this drive:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Quantum-540AT-Hard-Drive-5N01E-EA-20-10718002-2-5-Series-EU54A011/153394671575?epid=110714972&hash=item23b708efd7:g:uAEAAOSwddpcdEzrI translated your decapping page. Great work. Much safer than fuming HF et al.

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 04:28:46 pm
content: Quote from: Wimberleytech on January 05, 2020, 03:40:15 pmVery cool! So you know a lot more about these chips than I do!I have to look für a Quantum 2.5 series, right?At the moment there is no really cheap one but I will keep my eyes open.Perhaps anybody in the forum here has one?I´m sorry you have to translate my page but english costs me always a lot of time and time is a rare thing.Thank god Google Translator does a very good Job.I´m also very pleased with my decapping solution. Easy, cheap, not very harmful an with a good success rate.Soon I´ll test a kind of ofen to adjust a exact Temperature and get the sucess rate to ~100%.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 04:48:14 pm
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 05, 2020, 02:54:35 pmIt's on my 'to do' projects list, but I don't have any hands on experience with focus stacking, sorry.OfftopicI found out about focus stacking some years ago, while accidentally discovered a technique to make live insects stay in a desired position without moving (for macro photos). I put some grapes in the fridge, together with a wasp I didn't know it's there. When I took the grapes out, found the wasp and noticed it was not dead, but could only barely move. I put it outside, in the sun, and took some macro pics of it while the pure wasp was recovering. To my surprise, the photos were very lame when compared with other online photos of insects, even when the lens was pushed to its maximum DoF (Depth of Field) settings. That's how I found out about focus stacking and how much it can do for DoF.Later, I also found out that most of the insects stop moving at low temperatures, yet they are not harmed at all, this happens frequently in nature during the cold nights. Just don't freeze them. Also, they can be arranged upon wish in a photo setup without hurting them. Even when put them into the direct sunlight for better shots, there is still time to take enough photos before the insects can fly away.

author: Wimberleytech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 05:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 05, 2020, 04:28:46 pmYes. Part number would start with EU and the drive would be labeled "Europa"

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 06:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on January 05, 2020, 04:48:14 pmI know what focus stacking can do but never tried it. Well, still something to do and learn...Quote from: Wimberleytech on January 05, 2020, 05:04:17 pmI´ll keep my eyes open and will post it here when I got one!

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2020, 11:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: Noopy on January 05, 2020, 02:01:00 pmI love that solution, I bet if you just fart it looks like an eathquake to the camera. I should try something simular with my Fuji. If I us my Macro 80mm f2.8 lens that should wok quite well.I know I'm a Fuji man, but cannon make some beutiful lenses. So do Nikon, but it don't look like they are going to be around much longer.

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2020, 11:36:16 pm
content: TESLA EPROMbyTheEPROM9, on FlickrI know its not a HDD, but its kind of relevent when you are taking shots of dies. Plus its a vintage EPROM, who does not love vintage EPROM's

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 04:27:09 am
content: Quote from: TheEPROM9 on January 07, 2020, 11:34:50 pmThanks!You see your neighbour farting!I have positive experiences with a massive table and an esd-pad. The table is hard to move and the esd-pad does some damping. Of course only remote release the camera and mirror lockup is also very usefull.Every company has it´s pro and cons. I just started with Canon...But a good lens does not always perform good with the inversed setup! I was very disappointed looking at the pictures of my Canon EF 24-70mm f/2,8Lwhich normaly takes lovely pictures!Quote from: TheEPROM9 on January 07, 2020, 11:36:16 pmI also like other silicon pics!As you can see here:https://richis-lab.de/I will browse your pictures calmly, first I have go to work...

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 08:42:06 am
content: I suppose you need to use a lens designed for minimum object distance equal to the length of your reverse mounting rings. Such rule seems to kinda make sense if you think about what's happening here in terms of objects, images and ray traces through the lensCorrect me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK focusing distance is not a typical strength of fast lenses.

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 09:53:28 pm
content: I´m no expert regarding optics but the rings between camera and lens are irrelevant regarding the basic image quality.More rings make the image darker and at some point the quality gets worse (with the complete setup I have theoretical 300nm/px) but a bad lens is a bad lens with zero and with six rings.No idea what´s the key fact. EF-S 10-22mm is good, EF-S 18-135mm kit-lens is good, EF 24-70mm f/2,8L is bad.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 11:23:45 pm
content: I'm no expert toobut I think the problem is simply with focus distance and optical corrections in the lens being optimized for normal operation, when focus distance on the front side (object distance) is much longer than on the back side (sensor distance).If you reverse the lens and bring the sensor close to the front to reduce magnification and increase brightness, you violate the minimum (front-side) focus distance specification of the lens, which is probably at least half meter or so. Some lenses may work that way, others may not work very well.

author: Noopy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 04:24:19 am
content: Ah, no I see your point!Sound´s reasonable.