Agilent/Keysight U1253B display becoming unreadable... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 07:05:56 am
content: Hi,I have a very lightly used U1253B DMM - not a cheap meter...Suddenly, in the last few weeks, the display has faded to being very dim indeed - it's not the brightness setting - that's on MAX.It's readable, but only just.What can I do about this? Agilent/HP used to be a byword for quality and I've always been an advocate for their kit, but this is just very poor - was there an issue with the OLED displays?This unit was only bought in July 2012 and has never been out of the lab... really rather annoyed by this - it's my main non-bench DMM. And expensive.What are my options?Many thanks

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 07:56:37 am
content: OLED has finite life span. Have avoided the hell out of them myself. AFAIK not much you can do. Worth whining to Keysight about it but after 6 years you’ll be lucky if you get anything out of them other than a repair bill.To be honest Keysight stuff is top notch still just OLED displays were a bad tech choice. I went for a cheaper VFD based meter from GW in the end. Longer lifespan.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 09:07:44 am
content: Although Keysight's answer to a dead/dying OLED is buy a new meter, members here have finally sussed out the OLED being used. So it's possible to repair it (for now anyway).Check out theReplacement Part Found for U1253B OLED Screenthread.

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 12:25:15 pm
content: OLED displays are supposed to have a minimum lifespan of around 14,000 hours, or 5 years at 8 hours a day - this meter has only a tiny tiny fraction of that in hours.Really very disappointed in Agilent - it seems to be a known and common issue - manufacturing flaw. Yes, people can argue about the wisdom of buying an OLED meter in the first place, but what I bought was "Agilent", and it's definitely sub-standard - even my sacrificial cheap Chinese meters at a twenty fifth of that cost last longer than that.The replacement part is about GBP 80 - it should be free to those who've spent a truck load of their own money on a poorly designed bit of kit - Fluke give a lifetime warranty on their kit (actually it's 7 years from when they last made that device). Agilent, take note.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 12:49:20 pm
content: I highly doubt those displays were made to those specs though, given what's been reported by owners of the OLED models (suspect they're an earlier generation).

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 01:00:38 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 14, 2018, 12:49:20 pmThis is a current model DMM - Keysight are still selling them......which begs the question: Are they still selling DMMs with rubbish OLED displays?One would HOPE that the current stock (and replacement displays) are longer life that the original stuff...Anyone from Keysight care to comment on this?

author: Joel_l
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 01:10:33 pm
content: This thread might help you if you decide to replace the OLED yourself. It's the A model, not sure if the actual display changed.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacing-oled-screen-on-an-agilent-u1253a-multimeter/

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 01:27:26 pm
content: The fact it started so suddenly makes me believe the meter itself may have a defect other than the display. Unfortunately it may be difficult to solve without proper schematics.I am not sure if the earlier design has anything to do with it (or perhaps simply older age), but so far it seems quite concentrated un the older Escort design U1253A/B. There is only one report (that I can recall) of someone with OLED issues on the newer generation U1273A.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 02:35:42 pm
content: Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 12:25:15 pmThat's only the LEDs in it.They also have to be perfectly sealed so that not even a single molecule of water can get inside but they're rarely that good in practice. This gives them a limited shelf life as well as a limited number of hours of use.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 02:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 01:00:38 pmMost people who buy an expensive meter plan on using it a lot.Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 01:00:38 pmThey probably are because manufacturing improves all the time.This is a known problem withallOLEDs though. They simply don't last a long time.(...and this raises the question of why Keysight don't use TFT screens)

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 04:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 14, 2018, 02:39:42 pmNote sure what point you're trying to make here - I'm a professional EE but am working about 3,500 miles from my labs at the moment... I have an "away kit", so some stuff is duplicated... a lot of the "home kit" only gets used for a few weeks a year (if that).How much I may or may not use the device is completely irrelevant - Agilent/Keysight made a bad call on these devices and should pick up the tab. Fluke would have.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2018, 04:47:07 pm
content: Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 04:31:02 pmSimply that in a meter that gets used a lot it doesn't matter if the screen only lasts 5 years (or whatever).Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 04:31:02 pmNo disagreement there.But... given the awful battery life and unreadability in bright light (among other problems) they seem to be aimed at the "Oooh, shiny!" buyer, not people who need to depend on a tool to get a job done.PS: They also make them in plain LCD versions.Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 04:31:02 pmFluke would never have made an OLED meter in the first place.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2018, 01:28:27 am
content: Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 01:00:38 pmThe display manufacturer may not have improved their processes or equipment however, so current production may still be the same as when they first were available for sale to Escort.Even if this is the case, I get your anger/frustration as they should have sought out an improved OLED for it or EOL'ed that particular model. Personally, I suspect greed is the reason why nothing has been done.Not ideal of course, but you can at least replace the display and get it working again (linked thread has the P/N & sources to obtain one).For disclosure I own an Agilent labelled U1252B.Perhaps replacing the OLED, selling it, and replacing it with a different meter would be worth it in order to eliminate any further aggravation over this issue.

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2018, 12:32:55 pm
content: One way of still using the meter, even without a display, would be to buy the Bluetooth adapter (good money after bad?) and use the free Android or IOS app to display the result.Bleugh...I'm in contact with Keysight customer support - I'll report back on their performance...

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2018, 08:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: nickds1 on April 14, 2018, 01:00:38 pmFirst off, I'm so sorry to hear that you are having this problem!So, I'm not familiar with the design side of things and can't offer much more than what's already been said on the OLED display failures.I can say, though, that our design teams are required to use industrial-grade parts. For example, the 3000T oscilloscopes use an 8.5" capacitive touch display. The screen alone costs more than many 8.5" tablets on the market. So, I'm confident that the part being used isn't a consumer-grade part.The display board is orderable, but it's roughly $100https://community.keysight.com/thread/25646

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 10:03:26 am
content: Hi - I appreciate the reply - I'm aware of the replacement board, but as you note, it's $100 + Tax & Shipping, and should not be necessary.By any measure, this is a poor design choice by Agilent/Keysight and I'm pretty cross (as are a lot of people who are in the same position) that their trust in the company has been shaken.I have had one email from Keysight Customer Support, on Monday - I replied immediately (they wanted the s/n of the device), nothing since

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 10:14:44 am
content: Test gear and eye candy blingdon't mixIt's unfortunate you had to find out the hard way

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 10:26:17 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 18, 2018, 10:14:44 amYou're missing the point - I've been an EE for a very long time (39 years) - and have owned (and still own) a good few DMMs - e.g. I have a trusty Tektronix DMM 916 that I bought probably before some people on this forum were bornStill works great. I have a stack of Agilent/Keysight test kit (plus a bunch of Tektronix & others) and 99.9% is completely reliable - some of it 20+ years old.The rather sad, patronizing and snide remarks about bling, eye candy or whatever are irrelevant (and boring) - it's a premium meter from a premium supplier. It should be their problem, not mine.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 10:20:33 am
content: I'm not missing any point sir, nor is anyone questioning your qualificationsand I'm ok if you want to defend half baked modern bells and whistles gear when it goes south and bites into your pocket.You've posted your situation here for a response, so let's see them sort 'their problem' so 'your problem' gets resolved,without forking out for a new bling meter because the repair or parts cost is almost the sameand most likely if they haven't addressed the issue, you may experience a repeat fading display yet again

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 10:38:56 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 19, 2018, 10:20:33 amThere's nothing to "address", IHMO, that's what OLED screens do.If they've improved the manufacturing process in any way it will be to make them cheaper or to replace a broken machine with a newer one, not because they think anything is wrong.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 10:49:55 am
content: Yes my neighbour is having the same trouble with his top end Samsung OLED TV. It's just the tech is shit.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 11:10:27 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 19, 2018, 10:49:55 amIIRC those TVs were always aimed at people rich enough to replace them every few years. No TV-techie expected them to last a lifetime.Keysight/Samsung knew the failure rate and estimated lifetime of their screens when they sourced the parts.

author: DiddlyJackSquat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 04:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 14, 2018, 01:27:26 pmWell...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-u1273ax's-oled-screen/Make that two...What a piece of shit.My U2713 (ironically named) monitor has been in use over 4 years usually on for half a day lasted way longer than my U1273AX which wasn't very often used for fear of damaging it...

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 06:09:15 am
content: oleds are a horrible choice for battery operated test equipment. power hungry and display degrades quickly. avoid ALL oled based test equipment.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 08:40:42 am
content: Quote from: usagi on April 20, 2018, 06:09:15 amYou don't have to tell me twiceBut be advised your common sense comment will attract gangs of infuriated apologists and wallet bitten brand name fanboys,who think the situation will improve somehow...and claim we are just being negative and or jealousof their latest thang dud aquisitions...been there !

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 11:42:37 am
content: What's funny is that while they were still called "Escort", nobody was fawning over these meters. But slap an Agilent/Keyhole sticker on those same Taiwanese meters, quadruple the price and suddenly people are going nuts over them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 12:20:41 pm
content: Escort were quite respectable.The only problem is the OLED displays. My Keysight doesn’t have one. I bought a GW meter for the bench instead which has a VFD.Buy OLED, get pain. This has been known for years since the shitty $10 MP3 players had them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 01:51:18 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 20, 2018, 12:20:41 pmBut...shiny!!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 02:51:04 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 20, 2018, 12:20:41 pmRegardless of the label on the enclosure, OLED in T&M is simply marketing run amok.

author: LoFi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2018, 05:05:55 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 18, 2018, 10:14:44 amCare to elaborate?I don't own any OLED devices, and understand that OLEDs have a bad lifespan track record so far. But theconceptof using color (or 'eye candy') in a DMM displayisn't inherently bad.If fact, I'd love to have a good meter with this kind of bling if the problems of lifespan, decent battery-life, etc are resolved. A good color display should be easier and quicker to read, and could be quite a boon in logging multimeters to display trend information more helpfully.We rely on known brands for a reason, as a shortcut for helping to determine reliability and quality. One would certainly hope that a reputable company like Agilent/Keysight wouldn't be providing such features as mere 'bling'... but as something that was carefully engineered/tested to provide utility along with reliability. That trust seems to have been misplaced in the case of their OLED meters...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2018, 06:02:08 pm
content: Quote from: LoFi on April 21, 2018, 05:05:55 pmYou mean use (eg.) TFT instead of OLED? Much less power draw, no lifespan issues, readable outdoors... I think Fluke makes a few of those.PS: It's perfectly OK tolikeOLED meters but you need to accept that they're not going to last. Don't expect much sympathy on forums when meter replacement time comes around.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2018, 01:54:38 am
content: Quote from: LoFi on April 21, 2018, 05:05:55 pmColor can certainly be useful to distinguish multiple measurements. TFT or IPS can do this just nicely however, and doesn't have the lifespan or power consumption issues that OLED has.In the case of bench meters, you could even do multi-color VFD's (I know Noritake and Futaba currently manufacture some).For disclosure, the only OLED device I own is my cellphone.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2018, 09:44:54 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 21, 2018, 06:02:08 pmLOL, straight up!

author: DiddlyJackSquat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2018, 04:46:34 pm
content: I will try to figure out if my U1273AX's oled display is indeed proprietary or off the shelf...given the orange characters it might be proprietary but eh, why would they go to that extentbut the worst thing about taking apart the u1273ax is how difficult it is to put it back together once you get to the extent of removing the display, at least if you want the knob to be perfectly aligned

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 05:09:19 am
content: Just to put closure to this, I am now very happy - the issue is resolved and much kudos to Keysight's customer support

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 05:46:48 am
content: Quote from: nickds1 on August 19, 2018, 05:09:19 amCare to share your experience?

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 06:49:13 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 19, 2018, 05:46:48 amIt wouldn't be fair to the individuals involved to be specific - everyone's case is different and you need to manage expectations.What I can say is that if you feel that you genuinely have a good case, then make it! Speak to Keysight's customer service and explain the issues that you are having.In my specific case I can say that Keysight's customer support have been very proactive - the process has certainly taken a good while, but they were very through and helpful.Cheers

author: threephase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 09:31:15 am
content: Quote from: nickds1 on August 19, 2018, 06:49:13 amGood to hear that you have had success with Keysight's customer support, may be they are improving. My own experience with them in my country didn't have such a good result.This isn't an OLED issue and they did send me a modified instrument, but that didn't resolve the issue and in the end Keysight have walked away leaving me with a very expensive U1461A that doesn't function correctly due to a design flaw.Kind regards

author: nickds1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 08:09:07 am
content: Just noticed this - (don't visit much) - it was Keysight UK Customer Support who were excellent and resolved the issue for me (I note you are in the UK too - though I'm based in the UAE at the moment, it's Keysight in the UK who dealt with this).Whilst the process was lengthy (not their fault), they stuck with it, responded promptly to emails, came up with an excellent solution and have always been polite & helpful.I'm a very happy customer. Can't ask for more really.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2020, 07:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on April 17, 2018, 08:27:34 pmJust a little update a few years on - my second OLED on this meter is now dying. I'm confident the part being used is worse than a consumer-grade part.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2020, 02:36:43 am
content: Sad to hear that, I have a quite 'old' ~6+yr U1253B, original screen, works fine. While I accept that the life of OLED may be limited I find it is so much easier to read than LCD (always do my electronics indoors). It is my go-to HH DMM for a quick reading.Are you in a humid environment?

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2020, 03:55:07 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on January 14, 2020, 02:36:43 amGenerally, yes. Los Angeles.