Let me tell you my background - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 09:47:53 pm
content: So I started a thread last week about donating an oscilloscope. And I really don't think anyone knows what kind of background I have to the point where I need an analog oscilloscope donated.So I am a teenager, I live at my parents house ( like most teenagers ) I don't have a very high paying job. I have a soldering iron, 2 parts cabinets, 5 PCs, a ton of solder, and for Christmas I am getting a multimeter. So if you tell me to go buy a Rigol, not going to happen. I love electronics though and I am trying to get what I can. So don't crap all over beginners.Before I finish let me say thanks to everyone who replied to my last thread.ThanksMr.Clark

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 09:56:10 pm
content: n0b, I don't quite know what to say to this, but first no one on here was trying to break your nuts, these guys see people all week long come on the forum asking for scopes etc and then they disappear as if they never existed without a thank you or by your leave.Others ask, then next you know they are working for a shoe company and never go near another electronic project again, so many of those who would or could help you just want to wait and see what you are about or going to do or how long you will be patient and wait for help. some will push you to see how much fight you have for the hobby you have.Just be patient, one day someone will up and help you when they see you have some fire for what you asked for. Me I'm on what is called benefits through illness and I get called a scrounger all week long by some people around where I live, they dont see I can barely walk or am ill most days or that I spend all my money on electronic kit rather than drug or alcohol as so many here in the UK are depicted as doing. So my friend patience ok, good things come to those who wait.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 10:16:18 pm
content: oscilloscopes are not cheap devices and are not given away lightly. Even old analogue ones go for some money. i managed to buy one and re sell it for a profit when I upgraded to a digital. I spent £500 on an owon only to find it's shit and is now on life support in the form of an external power brick because the PSU failed and now I've had to shell out £300 for a new rigol. I'm not highly paid and do some design work on the side but the cost of that scope has just wiped out any profit from my recent jobs and with the failure of the owon put me well into the red. I'm supposedly a business and I'm a cursing the cost of cheap kit.I can't afford to get rid of my owon as it's 200MHz and that is what I wanted but I can't afford a rigol with the same bandwidth. the end result will be i leave my owon at work most of the time and in effect give away a £500 scope because they refuse to buy their own.Have you explain what projects you are working on. do you really need a scope right now ? If you are doing low frequency you could use a PC soundcard for some stuff.

author: janengelbrecht
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 10:22:39 pm
content: I Use my oscilloscope 1-2 times a month I thinkNice to have but not really essential for 99% of all hobby level projects.I also own a small ARM oscilloscope with an analogue bandwidth of only 100 kHz....it serves my needs most of the time....but can barely be called an oscilloscope : one channel, exstreme small analogue bandwidth, triggering works sometimeshttp://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/DSO_Nano

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 10:24:41 pm
content: We have a family friend, gave his teenage grandson a car for his birthday. Pink slip and all.In less than a week, the car was trashed and totaled, rollover accident... teenager was stupidly doing donuts.Almost killed himself.My friend looking back said it was a mistake for him to just give the teenager the car.He said maybe he should have sold it to him for a low price. My friend doesnt need the money but he wish he'd make his grandson work for the car and sacrifice a bit to get the car.... rather than just being handed a car.What's the point of this story?The point is maybe you should come to the forum and explain that you're just a teenager, with a very low paying job, but you love electronics.Then show them your facebook page with the photos of the projects you're built, using your limited money.You dont have much but that you'd be willing to buy for $100 or $150 or $75 (because that's all you can afford) from someone willing to sell their old, working oscilloscope.I think you'd get better response if that was your approach rather than..."Hey I'm new to the forum, can you donate your oscilloscope to me!"

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 10:39:14 pm
content: Five days and nobody gave you a scope. That's the kind of story every presidential candidate wishes they could tell.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 11:16:42 pm
content: Maybe a BK Precision 2160 for $100http://boise.craigslist.org/ele/5296168748.html

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 11:17:58 pm
content: To the OP, I thought you got a couple of offers, a pc based one and this one:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/oscilloscpe/msg798670/#msg798670

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 11:58:27 pm
content: OP, you have 5 PCs, will you please donate me one?

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 12:04:55 am
content: Also don't have a Rigol. Just a Hantek 6022be USB scope (Euro 55,- back then), a broken age old Tek 2232 (will take a while to repair) and currently building me one of those 10$ stm32 scopes:https://github.com/pingumacpenguin/STM32-O-Scope/wikiSo you still have a lot options until someone donates a scope or you saved enough money to buy you better one.

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 12:35:55 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 14, 2015, 11:58:27 pmYou beat me to it.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 12:54:23 am
content: Quote from: Seekonk on November 14, 2015, 10:39:14 pmI didn't know Don Trump needed an Oscilloscope!

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 01:18:48 am
content: You say you're getting a meter for xmas.. Don't get just one, get 2 or 3 cheap but capable oneseBay auction: #http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT136B-Auto-Range-Digital-Multimeter-AC-DC-Frequency-Resistance-Tester-/311177607324and a $20 ebay LCR component testereBay auction: #http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM328-transistor-tester-ESR-meter-Cymometer-square-wave-generator-/121430288103since most new versions include a basic frequency generator.Lightages (member here) has a great video on the meters.Also, do you have an assortment of test leads/clips and a power supply with current limiting?

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 02:14:56 am
content: For a really cheap scope how about a DSO138 kit?Only a few dollars, and you'll get some soldering practice. It's not pretty or brilliant but it works.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 02:26:30 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 14, 2015, 10:16:18 pmTell them a white lie------say the Owon has now croaked completely,& you won't be able to get anything done without an Oscilloscope.I do hope they don't know you have the Rigol as well.Take the Owon home,& instead of poncing round on the Internet,open it up,& use the Rigol to help troubleshoot the power supply fault.Result:- you now have two operational Oscilloscopes!

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 02:39:48 am
content: If you have 5 PC, use one to make a sound card oscillo. The cost could be less than 5$, and the construction very easy for a beginner.http://makezine.com/projects/sound-card-oscilloscope/You will get 20-20000hz bandwidth, which is enough to learn a lot.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 02:52:04 am
content: Well 2 of my PCs dont work and one is a raspberry pi , i did already get a few offers for donations.And my intention for this thread was not toward oscilloscopes.

author: Weaver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 03:09:49 am
content: I've seen two posts in the last two days from you, which do you want. (post one: a free oscilloscope) (Post two:looking for a very inexpensive (under $100-$75), good brand,calibrated, 2 channel 20 mhz or higher oscilloscope) Like you said in your second post, you've got $75 to $100 to spend, if you hurry and bid on this nice agilent 54600Ahttp://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-54600A-100-MHz-2-Channel-Oscilloscope-/161881680426?hash=item25b0e66a2a:g:SawAAOSwQoFWPs~9, I'll paypal you whatever the shipping cost is, but you have to cover the $100.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 03:40:39 am
content: In the old days,a teenager with an interest in Electronics could probably get an Apprenticeship,& be able to use an Employer's equipment,or at least,pick up a bit of work helping the local TV serviceman.Tech Colleges & Universities usually had proper Labs/workshops,where students could get at least,some "hands on" experience with test equipment which they mainly could not afford to own.In Australia,large Engineering organisations had need of a lot of Technicians & not so many,but still a substantial number of, Engineers.The PMG's Dept/Telecom Australia had their own Training Schools,& during the school break, sent Trainees out to work in the field,where they encountered Oscilloscopes,Spectrum Analysers,& other gear which they wouldn't be able to afford themselves."Cadet Engineers" did the same,& under the mentoring of a Senior Engineer,would get to play with all sorts of wonderful stuff,including Mainframe Computers.It was uncommon for even a Senior Engineer to have much in the way of private Test Gear at home.There was really no need,as Engineering organisations were run by Engineers,& were "Electronic Enthusiast friendly".This is no longer the case,& most businesses are run by "suits" who regard Engineers & Techs as an "unprofitable nuisance".Thus,we end up with the current situation,where,to get any "hands on" experience,you are pretty much thrown back on your own resources.Luckily,such things as Oscilloscopes,both old Analog ones & new/fairly new DSOs (very old DSOs are not a good investment) are much cheaper--not just in relative terms,but in absolute terms,& are an affordable purchase for private citizens.Of course,this is if you already have some "disposable income".If as is common,you are still a Secondary school student,are unemployed,or as in my case,Retired,it becomes quite a different proposition.A good friend ,or amiable employer may well give away an Oscilloscope,but a bunch od strangers,even though they are all nice folks,are another thing altogether.Many of them never had a privately owned 'scope till well into their 30s,others may have got one earlier by "working their butts off" in horrible jobs,so you can forgive them for not just showering you with offers.The International nature of this forum means such a gift is not viable,by many members,due to freight costs.Even confining it to the USA, you are limited to places fairly close to your home, for the same reason.The USA is such a big place that freight/postage costs would again make the "free" device pretty costly.We have the same problem in Oz---some stuff on eBay in Melbourne or Sydney becomes prohibitively costly topost to Perth in WA.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 04:18:03 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on November 14, 2015, 11:17:58 pmI made the offer of a pc scope, which he did not want, and then offered a Tek type 422 for free provided he cover the shipping. Even have a new probe to go with it.But then a jackass who had to throw a bunch of bs about how crappy CRO's were and how much better a $30 DSO kit was better than any old useless analog scope pissed me off and I retracted my offer with the stipulation that capt ass send him that glorious $30 DSO kit.If he doesn't get the scope in that auction, my offer on the 422 will stand. Free provided he covers shipping.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 04:36:53 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on November 15, 2015, 04:18:03 amI thought he was desperate for a scope?+1000 and infinite karma to xwarp for your generosity!

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 04:41:24 am
content: Quote from: Deathwish on November 14, 2015, 09:56:10 pmWell, I'd say8 posts in 1 1/2 pages by ataradov in his first threaddefinitely count as breaking his nuts.All he did was do exactly what Dave has recommended - ask nicely for an old analog oscilloscope donation and he's been given crap over and over for doing that.nOb - I'd recommend you getthe BK scope from the Boise Craiglsit adthat Cliff Matthews found. That will make a great beginner scope IMO. Offer $75. Even if you have to pay $100 it is worth it since you will have no shipping cost.Forget 20 year old digital scopes or $30 crap toy scope kits. If you stick with electronics and save some money, in 1-2 years you'll be ready to buy a high value budget DSO and still probably find uses for the analog scope as well.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 04:56:06 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 15, 2015, 02:52:04 am? sure seemed so

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 05:07:44 am
content: By the way that oscilloscope kit is under $30 well, $22.50 to be exact on bangood with free shipping to the US, it's not exactly a sin to try and build it even if you own a scope. Perfect kinda kitset for someone starting out who is just about to get their first multimeter. I believe the bangood one has the smd parts on it already 4.7/5 stars (127 Reviews).

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 05:19:43 am
content: Julien did a review of that same kit I believe..It was a fail.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 05:50:54 am
content: He got a new screen and worked fine.The problem was that he probably zapped the screen by not being careful, I do recall seeing the follow up video, and it worked.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 06:53:06 am
content: "This is a quick look at how accurate the dso 138 is and i have to say all the test i ran it performed well it is bang on accurate for a unit of this size and budget this great for all skill sets i would recommend building"

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:18:02 am
content: They have improved the noise a bit as well since they just updated the design, both Bangood and the Chinese manufacturer JYE Tech have decent support forums. It's supposedly slightly cheaper on the JYE Tech site but you would have to see how that works in with postage. Just putting it out there.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:46:08 am
content: Good to know! I hadn't seen the newer video. Thanks.Still - a toy though. A fun kit to build I suppose but no substitute for a real scope.... old or new. Steering a a beginner to a kit like this instead of a real scope is just bad advice IMO.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:55:03 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 15, 2015, 02:26:30 amI'm getting round to that, and I'm happy to tell them I have the rigol. I'd happily slam it in their face that I have it but won't use it after the experience of the owon. OK not their fault it failed early but 95% of it's use was for work. It is "fixed" I am using an external supply on the battery terminals and I've had a quick stab at the PSU and something it badly not right with it. I don't trust the whole PSU full stop, although even the battery input uses some of it so seems to be the mains bit that is very wonky.I already warned them it could fail any time and may be on it's last legs but nope not a twitter, can't complain too much, they bought the cheap as chips reflow oven I asked for because I'm not taking mine in even though I hinted i had one (I have to recomend stuff on the back of "I've got one works fine for me"). while they want to make their millions in profit they expect the guy they distrust for running his own business to provide kit. I'd be out of there so fast I'd leave burn marks on the floor if I had a chance elsewhere, probably best leave that option until I've completed the qualification they are paying for which is the only consolation and I've gained an ahem contact that is useful.As for the OP no indication yet of what he'd use his scope for, sadly my owon is still too valuable to me to give away and I'm betting it's not going to fetch much if I try to sell it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:56:17 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on November 15, 2015, 07:46:08 amIf it works to a degree it may be what he needs to get him started. something is often better than nothing.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:16:00 am
content: Quote from: Shock on November 15, 2015, 06:53:06 amA shame Julian didn't do a review---fixitdaz,apart from seemingly not knowing how to use his signal generator,was leaning over backwards to give it the benefit of the doubt.It looked downright horrible to me.As I said in a previous post,its performance is about as good as a 1949 analog 'scope!It does have a proper trigger circuit,though,though-----the 1949 jobs mainly had untriggered sweeps.On the other hand,those old CROs didn't have noise spikes of about 20% of the signal amplitude, on their display!

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:24:16 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 15, 2015, 07:56:17 amIt's not that good, I've played with a friends. I suppose it's better then nothing, but I'm certain you would be better off saving up your money for an Analog Discovery, provided you can get it at academic pricing.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 10:34:08 am
content: The mention of the Raspberry Pi triggered a thought. I don't think we have a clear idea of the sort of projects you want to do, but if it's Pi / Arduino type digital stuff then you could make good use of one of those $10 logic analyser clones on ebay (using Sigrok Pulseview obviously).

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 01:36:00 pm
content: As the first in this thread to suggest the DSO138 kit, and as a beginner myself, I thought I'd address the "don't bother, it's a toy" comments.I'd been pondering for a couple of weeks as to whether I should get a scope, they generally aren't cheap items that I feel I can just buy on a whim. I saw the DSO138 on Banggood for pocket change so I bought it (on a whim).When it arrived I was impressed by the documentation. I comes with a full circuit diagram split by function, for a beginner this has value in itself.It took me a couple of hours to build, I'm sure some would be faster, others it would take longer. There are a couple of recommended tests that you need a multimeter for before bridging some jumper pads. It all went pretty smoothly and I was pleasantly surprised when I finally plugged in to a 2S LiPo battery and it booted up without issue. I can now see the PWM functioning on an arduino amongst other things.So Pros and Cons (I got the latest hardware/software revision)Pros:The satisfaction that I built itIt works well enoughThe circuit is fully documentedIt costs peanutsCons:It's pretty basicIt's only single channelIt's made me realise that a scope would indeed be extremely useful for me. I need more channels (The Rigol is definitely on my shopping list now), but I'll continue to use it until I get the Rigol.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 04:29:11 pm
content: I'm considering getting one of those DSO kits to have a visual interface with the ECM in my truck.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 06:46:10 pm
content: Just watched the newer videos of the kit DSO. Better than nothing, maybe. But with such a noisy trace and only 200 kHz bandwidth it's not much better than nothing.A fun, inexpensuve kit build perhaps, but IMO a beginner with very little money to spend would be much better off saving his $30 to put towards a used analog scope or Analog Discovery or even a bargain basement modern DSO.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:15:27 pm
content: That last video was bad in many ways.First they are using an app for generating the signal via audio, so we don't know if the limitation is on the signal generator or the scope kit.Second, the reviewer was very confused about why his signal wouldn't change from a sine wave while he was at the maximum frequency the phone app could deliver.So that DSO might be very limited to just audio frequency signals but it's hard to tell which was the limiting factor the generator or the scope.Of course I could look for the specs for either, but I don't really care. As other have said, you are better off with an Analog Discovery or a used Analog Scope. Which btw they are far from useless compared to modern DSOs, they actually would be good for a beginner because they do have to measure the traces in the screen and figure things out instead of just reading the values.If you found someone that wanted to learn math, would you recommend a fancy calculator that does it all or would you encourage them to start with memorizing and understanding multiplication tables, trigonometry etc.. after all they don't need to learn all that just to compute the results so in theory it might be good to skip the fundamentals so they can progress more rapidly but with the caveat that they won't know how things really are therefore limiting in a way what they can accomplish in the long run.Then again, they might be able to accomplish more, myself I would recommend starting with the basics then graduate to a slide ruler so it can open their eyes in the power of log scales as a practical aspect, then finally graduate to the latest tools that will make their life easier.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:41:12 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 14, 2015, 10:16:18 pmFor £800 you could've got a decent oscilloscope with a bandwidth of more than 200MHz but hindsight is a wonderful thing.Luckily my Owon is still working.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 11:13:02 pm
content: Ok, for less than 100 bucks, you can get:Uni-t 136 dmm10$ Logic analyzerHantek 6022be USB scopeEnough to get started in my eyes...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 03:46:27 am
content: Quote from: daybyter on November 15, 2015, 11:13:02 pmAt that age I was measuring voltages with my tongue. ;-)

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 03:50:13 am
content: The only one NOT reading this confused topic is the OPShows how smart he is

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 06:48:53 pm
content: By the time I was 15, I had an Atari 800 + an floppy drive upgrade sitting in a closet for a few years. My father helped me buy it (as in he paid for almost all of it). In exchange, I was supposed to do a lot more programming than I actually did. I'd wanted to learn 6502 assembler, because I wanted to do cool graphics, but he thought I should stick with BASIC, or if not BASIC, Pascal. I could have purchased a 6502 assembler myself and a few books, using money earned on my paper route, but I preferred to spend that money on imported cheese and a scant few computer games.I think my father's money was well spent; I may not have learned all I could have, but I learned things. Most important, I think, was that it was probably the beginning of really understanding that while nice gear is nice, what matters most is what you do with what you have.So, why am I telling you this, OP? It's not to shame you. It's to say we've all been 15 (except the precocious ones that are younger than you).I'm doing this to say that a crummy third-hand cathode ray or USB oscilloscope that doesn't work quite right is still valuable to you at this point. You'll learn a lot making it work better (as I am fixing some of the used test equipment I've purchased), and it will help you see things you couldn't see before. Some of those things won't actually be there, which will frustrate you, but it will also help you learn what can go wrong, and why, and how to avoid problems in the future. It will be a good object lesson in the questions of epistemology.