What the hell are these things?! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 07:55:39 pm
content: Heyo all, i've made an account specially for this because i knew if anywhere would be able to help me it'd be here.My work's recently taken delivery of a huge amount of bulk electronics equipment, to recycle or whatnot. The people we took it off didn't have a clue what they were, nor do we.I'll try tell what i know about them.Semikron SKiiP branded, part number 1513GB172, huge 10KG aluminum heatsink on them. We tore one apart out of curiosity and found that there were three modules to the thing, each with a board that had horrible conductive silicone on the top, attached to the heatsink on the base. They appear to be gold plated.Wondering what on earth these things are used for, seem pretty impressive. I can't find much at all about them.Thanks for any possible help!

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 07:57:20 pm
content: Pics?

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 08:02:15 pm
content: It was a pretty involved process tearing it apart, only remembered to take a photo on the last step.Here are the three modules inc. the silicone goop, on the heatsink.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 08:04:59 pm
content: Semikron that will probably be three phase power modules. Can you zoom into the chips? Did you remove any chunky power connectors? Could you trace the layout? Is is a bit hard to figure out what is connected to what. Can you also give us a scale? How big is it?

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 08:10:12 pm
content: Whoops, just looked and forgot i did take some more photos.Here's a higher quality one of the chips.And here's a couple of the board that was attached to that.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 08:21:36 pm
content: Looks pretty strange but most likely it is a three phase H-bridge. Smaller chips are IGBT, bigger are diodes. Quite odd number of chips per phase suggesting there may be some more things happening than a simple H-bridge. Each module has a DC link connection and phase output with possibly integrated current sensor (red thing).

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 08:22:54 pm
content: http://www.semikron.com/skcompub/en/skiip_ipm-89.htmHigh power IPM from semikron direct.1700V, 1500 - 1800 A Three Phase power modules.Cost an arm and a leg, and then some more.Breaking them open was probably not a wise thing to do..ouch!!The part number posted was enough to get me the ds in the first link on google..would ve saved you a module..They really are expensive.Some of them come with integrated gate drivers trimmed to drive the IGBTs and current sense on the die itself.PS: I d guess the red block in the third pic is the CT for current measurement in the DC+/IGBT Collector.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 08:41:59 pm
content: The current sensor is from this company:http://www.vacuumschmelze.com/en/products/cores-inductive-components/applications/current-sensors-transducers/active-current-sensors-with-magnetic-probe.htmlIt is placed om the phase output. Notice how two other terminals are made into short laminated bus. This is how a DC link is typically made to lower its inductance.

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 09:59:25 pm
content: can you try to power that thing up?Perhaps you can even sell it/rent it/give it away to photonicinduction (https://www.youtube.com/user/Photonvids)if anyone is capable of operating a 3600 amp circuit it would be him, i think it would make a great educational video.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 10:19:02 pm
content: Quote from: SArepairman on May 09, 2014, 09:59:25 pmI second this, Maybe he will get all of GB power grid to go down this time

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 10:25:48 pm
content: Quote from: krish2487 on May 09, 2014, 08:22:54 pmCost aside (if it was good, you could have resold it for $$$), breaking open high power semiconductors is generally not a good idea. Many of them use beryllium oxide ceramic for internal insulation, and it is highly toxic if inhaled or ingested.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 10:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: N2IXK on May 09, 2014, 10:25:48 pmI second that. I knew someone who got Beryllium poisoning as an apprentice and was still suffering the effects some thirty years later. Just be careful not to create any dust.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 10:53:13 pm
content: Quote from: MatCat on May 09, 2014, 10:19:02 pmI 3rd that. His latest videos are not showing up, but he has a new even higher powered 3 Phase Variac. It is motor driven via remote...

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 07:41:31 pm
content: Ah, damn. I can only hope that since they were sent away that they're all faulty or have other things wrong with them, some were fairly beaten up.3600amps? No wonder there was 10kg of aluminum attached to each of them. Dear god what powers these things.Don't suppose anyone could tell me a ballpark figure of what a new one would cost though? Curious about it.I do like the idea of sending one to photonicinduction, i watch his videos. Would be pretty interesting to see what chaos he could cause with one.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 08:10:47 pm
content: $10k would be a ballpark.

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 08:31:55 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 10, 2014, 08:10:47 pmReally?? You have to be kidding me, wow

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 02:36:19 am
content: well maybe you can fix it

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 03:57:48 am
content: Quote from: ohpleaseno on May 09, 2014, 07:55:39 pmIf you are contractually permitted to resell such stuff, you probably should take photos of the things (all of it) and post them here to see if anyone wants to buy them, or can at least advise on possible resale leads.Also since sometimes there can be hazardous materials in technical equipment, and asking here is a good way to find out.Before you rip unknown equipment apart for mere scrap metal value.

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 09:42:26 am
content: I can only hope that where ever these originally came from the people handling them had more sense than us, and knew they were faulty before sending them off.Yeah i do understand that there can be dangerous materials in such equipment, but due care is always taken so i don't think anyone's going to die today.Let's just hope that the pallet load of capacitors that came with them have some value in them to recoup the possible losses. Don't suppose anyone could help identify those?ICAR branded, 500uF±10%, 1100Vdc. They weigh around 3KG a pop. And luckily they came with the contacts bridged, so no one's going to get shocked

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 10:45:07 am
content: Quote from: ohpleaseno on May 11, 2014, 09:42:26 amThat's NOT a safe assumption. You'd be amazed and shocked to see the amount of perfectly good stuff that gets 'trashed' (sent to recycling, or even direct to landfill) by tech companies.For instance with high power mains stuff, I *think* there are actually regulations against installing 'used' equipment. At least I know in Australia electricians are not supposed to install 2nd hand equipment in commercial situations. Not sure to what extent such rules apply, or if it's the same overseas.Even if those modules are dead, some people might like to buy them at or just above scrap metal price, as curiosities.QuoteTwo suggestions: 1. Update your profile to show which country you are in. So people know what kind of shipping hurdles they'd be looking at.2. Always post pics. Both for the entertainment of everyone, and so those who might be interested have a better idea of the items, condition, etc.Sounds like someone was disassembling high power Uninterruptible Mains Power Supplies, or something like that.I could do with a bunch of big high power/voltage caps, but can't afford just now.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 06:52:30 pm
content: just to chime in about the resell value, go to ebay and search:SEMIKRON SKiiPSome go for a hefty price some others not so much but sill expensive. If you are going to sell them you should see what the current used market value is. Some come with datasheets, some are stated as new some used and untested.I guess you can also check what sold recently (forgot how to search that but I know it's possible to find out what price point makes the sale and what doesn't).

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 08:49:18 pm
content: Quote from: ohpleaseno on May 11, 2014, 09:42:26 amooh, hello!any for sale?

author: ohpleaseno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 06:10:05 pm
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on May 12, 2014, 08:49:18 pmYep, just come right over here. And/or send a PM over, so we can discuss what to dohttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/bulk-selling-high-power-apacitors/

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 09:53:56 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 10, 2014, 08:10:47 pmLooks like the module on photo is the same one as this one on Ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-SKIIP2013GB172-SKiiP2013GB172-4DLV3-SEMIKRON-MODULE-BOARD-AND-HEATSINK-/161266290769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258c385051- $1675 in working condition. I am looking at number of rows and size of heat sink.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 10:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: N2IXK on May 09, 2014, 10:25:48 pmAdapting Godwin's Law (Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) that states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1" I can say"As an online discussion on EEVBlog grows longer, the probability of someone saying it is must be illegal or it is not safe approaches 1".