Unknown often burning neon lamps 35w TL 5 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 02:27:15 pm
content: Hallo experts out there,I noticed that 35 W TL5 in the company that I work for burns more often than maybe a few years ago. The Lamps are equiped with Tridonic 14-35 W T5 Pro 22185147 ballast that power these lamps., the come in one big lanes individually. With 220V is everything ok, I checked against spikes, other devices works normally.Now, for some reason we suspect that 5G Mobile in 3,6 GHz has something to do with it. Lamps rate failure is more often in urban areas where frequency polutions is higher. This Tridonic ballast is somewhere around 20 years old, and I believe is tested till about 2.4 Ghz.I would like to ask can RF polutions in urban Areas introduce interference in 220V ac and are Neonrohren sensitive to that ?

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 02:36:28 pm
content: I believe something is getting lost in the translation.When you mention Neonrohren, do you mean fluorescent light tubes, like so:

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 03:37:35 pm
content: Sorry, yes right fluorescent Lights

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 05:17:08 pm
content: Do the failed lamps show signs of cathode sputtering? A dark ring at the tubes’ end connector?This is a sure sign of an startup sequence by the ballast is not correct to the tube type.Back then, mid 1990s, when I worked for an electronic ballast manufacturer, the filaments were preheated to assist the arc strike. But it wastes some power. To meet the new efficiency guidelines, the filaments are no longer preheated on modern ballasts, and only high voltage is used to strike an arc.This cold start is very stressful and causes the cathode to eject (sputter) cathode material. Which appears as a dark ring.I would think that is the primary cause for shorter lifespans, and also that to meet stricter environmental guidelines, the amount of mercury has been reduced on the tubes.I don’t think 5G has any effect on tube life.Of course, someone else may have a different opinion.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 06:16:03 pm
content: Ballast is correct, for this types of Light. Ballast, self rarely goes bad, but it happens also.Burned Lights do have those black rings, then they dont light up at all. Some of the lights change colour to red, it happens rarely but it happens.We dont is the blame on nowadays lower quality of lamps, they are Philips btw.This part on the picture is EVG, german elektrovorschaltgerat. English translation is Ballast. I wonder is it sensitive to high RF frequency.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 06:44:18 pm
content: Replace them with LEDs. Assuming the flag in your profile reflects you location, you're in the EU, where fluorescent tubes are being phased out there will come a day when you can't buy replacements.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 06:55:00 pm
content: Electronic ballasts are usually based on a Royer oscillator with some MJE1300x NPNs which have a gain-bandwidth product of around 10 MHz.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 07:00:44 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on August 10, 2025, 06:44:18 pm^This.The German/EU DIY stores are holding final sales on flourescent tubes, and many online outlets report no stock.I suggest you show initiative and work out a replacement plan to present to your management. Might earn you some important career points.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 07:50:29 pm
content: There's a nontrivial chance that LED replacements may not last very long either.Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on August 10, 2025, 05:17:08 pmDo not underestimate the stupidity of environmental regulations... or how clever they are at increasing planned obsolescence.(I have some fluorescent lights with the traditional magnetic preheat ballast, which have been working for many decades; and enough replacement tubes stocked up for at least a few centuries based on how (not) often they need replaced.)

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:00:35 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on August 10, 2025, 07:50:29 pmX2 but in my experience they still last much longer than florescent lights. Particularly the non-mercury ones, the mercury was placed in traditional florescent tubes for a reason!

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 10, 2025, 06:16:03 pmWhat evidence do you have to believe that high RF frequency is the actual failure mechanism? Can you share?Philips, used to be the best lamp manufacturer. However, like everyone else in the lamp business, has had to drastically reduce the amount of mercury. This causes the lamps to be harder to strike. Which causes the electron-emitting cathode material to sputter away from the cathode.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:26:17 pm
content: They are using one LED Philips replacement Lamp.But, according to the Trident Ballast manual, that Lamp is not 100% compatible with Trident and they also stop working after short time. That Philips LED Lamp is also much expensive than Fluorescent one, so thet stopped ordering them anymore. There are allegedly no other 100% compatible LED Lamp on the market.Other solution is to change this Trident to a LED ballast/driver. We have done that in some stores, but the costs are too high.From time to time they sent me in some stores and are asking from me to figure out why are they burning so often.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:35:50 pm
content: The client has stores in small towns, in big cities. I think in big cities the lights burns more often.5G works on different frequencies. In big cities they use 3.6 GHz.In small towns 700 MHz, possibly 2 GHz.Its just my suspicion, maybe I am wrong.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:46:50 pm
content: Can you suggest a mechanism by which 5G could affect the lifespan of a fluorescent tube lamp?

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2025, 02:29:53 am
content: I have already asked a similar question, and yet he is not providing any evidence, nor factual data to support his claims.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2025, 02:42:47 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on August 10, 2025, 08:46:50 pmEasy enough to test. Just put new tubes in a pair of adjacent fittings and wrap the tubes in one fitting with aluminum foil. If it's 5G the wrapped ones will last longer.

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2025, 04:00:01 am
content: Before I believe in 5G, I think the sun is more the cause of the failures.A friend was present when the new energy cost meter (eHZ) was installed. Prior to that they measured the grid voltage. It was a sunny day.251V!Countryside region with rooftop distribution & a lot of private PV installations around...

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2025, 07:31:36 pm
content: Well, the fact is that the breakdown rate is higher in big cities. What is the cause of this is not clear enough.If it's not 5G, then the mains network is polluted. Can power switches pollute the network so much and introduce interference over a longer distance?Here in Germany, balcony power plants (balkonkraftwerk) have been popular lately, basically you put solar cells on a balcony and then sell the power to the power distribution company.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2025, 07:46:58 pm
content: My guess is that any effect of dense metropolitan areas is due to all the switching electronics tied to the power grid, conducting noise directly to the other loads.5G radiation is not that strong inside other equipment.

author: Rafiki
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 10:20:03 am
content: QuoteMaybe they switch it on/off more often? Maybe they have more days/hours open?QuoteAhem, how did you check for spikes? How did you check your 220V? We've 230V~ default since more than 15 years. Probably way longer, please search ...My first guess was you've bought Sylvania instead Osram or Philips. But as you already use Philips the most probably reason is, lower quality than decades ago. Less mercury in newer tubes was already mentioned. If for environmental reasons or economical ones does not matter for your problem. But probably is part of the answer.If you can assure there are some places where the tubes wear out more rapidly as on others check -- usage (number of hours of operation and more important as you mentioned the black rings - number of switching cycles)- monitor line voltage over long periods (days weeks) to rule out differences in voltage. Of course in an area with a lot of photovoltaic AND bad (pushed to the limits) transformers the probability the get near the limit of 253V~ is higher than on areas with big, oversized net infrastructure.- reassure all the tubes (the ones which lasts longer compared to the ones in the 'city') all use the same type of ballast and no conventional inductor with "Schnellstarter"

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 11:36:38 am
content: This could be one of those closed loop feedback situations.If modern tubes are less durable than the older ones, then each time an old one is replaced the failure-due-to-ageing rate in that particular building goes up due to the lower durability of the replacement tubes. The very act of installing new tubes pushes up the failure rate, and the more installed, the higher the failure rate.So I can imagine a situation where that could happen almost anywhere in the estate: by random chance a particular building might get a cluster of old tube failures, which require a cluster of shorter-lived replacements, and away it goes.Anyway, just a thought (and I have doubts about it), and unfortunately it's of no real help.I still remain puzzled by the OP's assumption that 5G has something to do with it. That smells of uninformed prejudice and superstition. Here in the UK we had problems with an anti-5G movement who would set fire to supposed 5G masts as well as threatening to assault Openreach technicians*. When questioned, none of them understood the first thing about 5G, 4G, RF in general, or in fact science in general. It's so weird how these Luddite movements gain momentum.The differences in the environments described by the OP are so substantial that 5G is probably the least likely factor. If it were me I'd be making the case to change out the entire stock to LED for environmental reasons (and longer term cost reasons).*In the UK, Openreach is the organisation responsible for building and maintaining the copper and fibre access networks. They have nothing to do with the mobile networks, so delivering a punch in the mouth to one of their techs is WAY off base.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 01:12:01 pm
content: Info on lifetime of 'fluorescent' tubes:https://lamptech.co.uk/Documents/FL%20Life.htm

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 01:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: BILLPOD on August 12, 2025, 01:12:01 pmI'm delighted to see that they are clear about ageing effects and mortality, without mistakenly blending in MTBFs and failure rates. Very refreshing.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 08:50:29 pm
content: Here in Germany on the TV they keep talking about clean Power/energy but it seems we are getting dirty 220 SinusWhat is considered as clean 220 v Sinus how much noise is allowed here in Germany? Is there any Regulation for that; how much deviation is allowed and how should one poluted curve look like?If I would like to check sinus with one Osciloskop, I presume Resolution is more important than the bandwidth. it would had to be portable for the field work.I was thinking to buy so,ething like Owon HDS2202S, do iI also need a differential Probe ?

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 06:00:38 am
content: Quote from: Rafiki on August 12, 2025, 10:20:03 amClient is usimg only Philips Tubes. Failure rate is higher in metropolitan areas than in small places. I am not the only field technician out there, others have similar expereiences, but I am the first one who posted this topic on the world Nr. 1 electronic engineers Forum:)All the stores have same on/off Illumination Cycles

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 09:21:30 am
content: Hello,You know what is amazing about this is that fluorescent tubes were the greatest thing a while back because they were more efficient than incandescent bulbs. In practice, that meant replacing bulbs with tubes would lower the electric bill. We saw tubes being installed all over the place in homes and industry.Now here we are again, at the dawn of the LED lamp. It's just the same deal again. Replace and exist or don't replace and die. But with the right choices, we see again a lower electric bill.Since the electric bill should go down, we could calculate a break-even point in time where the cost of installation equals the amount of savings on the electric bill. This could be months to years. The point is, this could be worked into the replacement strategy.Also, a slow, methodical replacement of the lamps over time. Some today, some tomorrow, some next month, etc. It will have to happen some day I think so might as well start planning it out now while there is still a little wiggle time.So the plan which would be an investment plan could be:1. Slow, methodical replacement.2. Along with that, calculate the break even point in time based on the cost of installation and the savings on the electric bill over time.3. Figure in cost increases to help offset the costs of replacement. Unfortunately there may be no way around this.Is there another way to avoid the inevitable catastrophic forced end of life for tubes. Could the possibility of lower quality tubes be a way to get users to be more aware of the coming end for tubes.Think about all this.

author: Tantratron
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 09:43:10 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 10, 2025, 02:27:15 pmI've worked for more than 10 years on electroded (FL, MH, HPS) and electrodeless (induction FL and UV) plasma lamp, there is no direct way 5G or RF could interfere or explain the issues you are describing. Of course electroded and electrodeless electronic ballast needs to meet EMC/EMI but the 5G is really impossible, same for 4G and so.Either your FL tube is not properly impedance matched to your electronic ballast, or the FL tube have aged prematurely (i.e. sputtering, amalgam decrease) or the local city AC-grid THD, peak value could be a possible problem.Now another explanation with indirect 4G 5G Wifi Bluetooth happened to one of my customer in Nuremenberg whom I helped improved their EMI/EMC certificate. They used a centralized and monitored CMS system with proximity ambiant light sensor, dimming, On-off... except their small factory had lot of EMI due to phone cell, bad AC/HF/RF lines segregation so everybody was interfering like a Christmas tree.But again, first you need to verify the tube quality, how many hours of run in average per year, how many ON/OFF cycles, its plasmic impedance match with the ballast model before engaging in more complex investigation.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 09:49:38 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 13, 2025, 06:00:38 amIs it just because you have more customers in urban areas?

author: Rafiki
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 10:45:06 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 12, 2025, 08:50:29 pmAgain, you don't have 220V~ default you have 230V~. All variances and quality of power supply delivered are defined in different standards. From the top of my head now +10% - 15% are allowed (253V~ - about 195V~). And that's only one, the most basic thing which is standardized. Don't get me wrong, but if you don't know these basics I fear you can't measure anything useful with a scope on the power line.Theoretically if you've very old ballasts (20 years) they now deliver about 5% more current to the tube as 20 years before (before the switch from 220 -> 230V~)

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2025, 11:30:13 am
content: If we excluded 5g from the cause than it must be variations in the mains..For one balkony Solar powerplant, im germany is 800w Maximum thats allowed to be transfered into the the mains.10 Apartments in one Building and thats already 8kw on a sunny day. All balcony powerplants sold here have passt their Regulations. But once sold, they are no longer checked nach possible defects. What about if some falls out of tollerance after some time ?

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2025, 01:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 14, 2025, 11:30:13 amHello again,Well, 28 posts and you still are not sure what the cause is. That's because there are several reasons for this and it would require careful probably long term experimentation to find out what the real cause is. It's even possible there are several causes included wear in the fixture itself. It seems like a losing battle unless you can find someone that knows for sure what is happening.Note that there are reasons for everything, and as you suspected lower quality tubes, that could be because the tubes are being phased out so there may be less sold which reduces profits for companies that make the tubes which in turn may cause them to cut corners in making new ones.You should have someone do a retrofit cost and break even point calculation to see just where you stand with that. Saying that LEDs are more expensive than tubes is not really a cost estimate, it's a temporary situation only that would most likely change once a better study is done for the retrofit. Remember there are a lot of factors that go into a retrofit. The energy savings would probably be around 50 percent for one, and then the replacement frequency could go down by a lot with proper design. Some utility companies also offer a rebate for switching to LEDs which can help offset the initial upfront cost.What I would do is start with one building that has a high rate of failure and retrofit that one, then evaluate the effectiveness over time. That would be the prototype. If it works out well then go to a second or third building, then progress in that fashion.As far as breaking even and starting to actually save money, I could guess that the shortest break even time point would not be less than around 3 years unless you can get discounts or rebates from the electric company you deal with. That's not a short time, but in relation to the time an established company is around that can be very acceptable.If you rather keep searching for an answer or not that's up to you and the company you work with. There may be an answer but the answer may lead to additional costs anyway. For example, what would be the cost to regulate the voltage of the various installations.Or, can you get the electric company to find out what is happening and enforce standards if any are being exceeded.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2025, 01:57:59 pm
content: Also worked in the field and can't see the connection between HF and bulb lifetime.UnijunctionTransistor did an excellent post on what could cause premature failure.Another possible causes I can think of:- dimming of TL's which requires more current through the filaments to keep the plasma flowing (which is not the case here).- different filaments in the tubes so the electronic processor does not recognize correctly the correct connected bulb and delivers more current than nominal, you can check by the amount of Lm from the bulb compared to the one with another brand bulb if you have those.- many more switch on switch off changes, due to for instance installation of movement detectors switching on/off the lights.- Philips tl manufacturing in the Netherlands was seized in 2015*AFAIK they don't produce TL bulbs any longer so this Philips branded could just as the TV sets be some chinese manufacturer.My bet would be the new bulbs are a small mismatch with the driver, being less mercury, different filaments, or less quality.*https://www.internetbode.nl/roosendaal/140275/laatste-lamp-in-philipsfabriek-definitief-uitgedraaid

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2025, 02:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 14, 2025, 11:30:13 amThe upper limits for solar inverters in Germany:- 230 V + 10 % = 253 V for a moving average over 10 minutes (shutdown when exceeded)- 230 V + 25 % = 287.5 V peak (triggers immediate shutdown)In my area there are plenty of PV installations (small and large) and I haven't noticed any overvoltage issues with so far. And mains powered devices should be designed with a voltage tolerance of +/- 10 % anyway.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2025, 05:58:10 pm
content: My client is a well known Stores brand in Germany. Number of stores is in a 4 - Digit range, all across the country. The fact is, in some stopres they break more often than in others.That is a well known Problem for years but no one found the cause for that.Philips Lamps have decrease in quality, thats the fact. i also believe, its not just one cause, there are many of them combined.Quote from: madires on August 14, 2025, 02:52:00 pmOk, over voltage is controlled. But what about the Sinus curve alone that these devices broadcast in network, is it also controlled ?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 10:46:11 am
content: Yep, there are also limits for the mains frequency and required actions. Old inverters shut down above 50.2 Hz and newer ones decrease the power fed into the grid in steps between 50.2 Hz and 51.5 Hz. When exceeding 51.5 Hz they have to shut down too. It's similar for low frequencies. The old limit was 49.5 Hz (shutdown), the new one is 47.5 Hz, while between 49.8 Hz down to 47.5 Hz the inverter should increase its power output if possible. Please see SysStabV for more details.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 11:00:42 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 15, 2025, 05:58:10 pmSure. But it’s not 5G causing it.Get anexpertelectrician to one of the stores with a high failure rate and have them do a detailed long-term (months at least) power quality analysis. (What’s the average line voltage? How much does it vary? Are there a lot of harmonics or other noise from nearby factories, for example?) Check environmental factors (how hot are the ballasts and lamp fixtures getting; how high is the humidity; how much do temperature and humidity fluctuate? Etc.) over the same period. Ideally, you’d do the same thing in a store with a low failure rate as a control. Check the lot numbers of lamps and ballasts to see if you identify any patterns there (Bad lots of lamps? Bad lots of ballasts? Certain combinations of lamp lots and ballast lots that don’t like each other when combined, but which are all ok otherwise?).

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 12:25:09 pm
content: I wonder if we are beginning to indulge the OP a little too much. His magical thinking and wide-eyed suspicion of 5G - an irrational and uninformed prejudice - plus his reluctance to embrace any of the suggestions made by informed experts in this thread, make me wonder if we are making the best use of our time continuing this thread.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 08:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on August 10, 2025, 05:17:08 pmThanks, that post was very helpfull. Do you know maybe, how much voltage on a ballast is used to light up a 35W TL5 fluorescent lamp, what kind of a wave and at what frequency?This is what google says:""The electronic ballast (ECG) Tridonic T5 14-35W operates at a high frequency. The exact frequency can vary depending on the model, but is typically in the range of 40 kHz to 100 kHz, according to Tridonic."' So, its not 10Mhz.Built-in Trident ballast areinstalled on average 15 years ago. As I said before, they rarely go broken alone, you change a lamp ane everything looks okay. My assumption is that some component in the ballast has changed its characteristics and is shortening the lamp's lifespan. Along with the lower quality of the lamps, not so clean voltage in metropolitan areas they are not as resistant as before.Many expert electricians have conducted power quality analysis, but all parameters stays in tollerance. Humidity, temperature are also more or less the same, there is sale staff. All lamps come from one central warehouse and are then distributed throughout the country. Different experiments with different batch were also done in the past.The key here is to try to identify the problem. We don't have to solve it.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 03:12:59 am
content: Something that you could do is measure the lamp arc current, and compare between different ballasts and tubes. You can compare the values with the lamp manufacturers rated current.Since the arc current is high frequency, make sure that both current probe and the DMM used to measure its output are rated at that frequency, and are true-RMS responding. A better idea is to use a digital scope and actually view the waveforms. The crest factor, which is the ratio between peak and RMS current, was quite important, if I recall correctly. The digital scope will allow you to make those measurements simultaneously, along other parameters, like frequency. Frequency in itself DOES NOT directly influence lamp life, but the reactance of the ballasting capacitors will decrease with a higher frequency, allowing a higher arc current.EDIT; please note that I am asking you to measure the lamp current, not the lamp voltage.

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:12:05 am
content: i have Fluke 87-5 that I carry with me, I could measure current with him. Does it matter on which of 4 wires coming out of the ballst to measure ?We dont have an Oscilloscope, its not needed for the things we do. I could buy one handheld myself, but than its going to be used probably once and never again.Reading on a Tridonic manual, its specified average life is about 50,000 hours with a failure rate of < 0.2% per 1,000 hours. If they were mounted about 15 years ago, and they worked 10 hours every day except on sundays, than it roughly matches manufacturer specification.The only thing that puzzle is, they rarely go broken. It seems that as they approach the end of their working life, they start to give a different voltage than the declared one.

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:18:29 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 15, 2025, 05:58:10 pmHi again,It's a shame but that's the way it is all over now. Reduced quality in order to cut costs. That's probably the main reason but it's hard to nail down for sure.What also looks troubling is some 150 countries have adopted the phase out of tubes by 2027, which is not that far away now. That's unless they change it for some reason I guess.You can read about the Minamata Convention on Mercury see if that sheds any light on this (no pun intended).It seems that conversion to LED lighting is someday going to be the only way to deal with all this.

author: Tantratron
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:43:30 am
content: Quote from: MrAl on August 17, 2025, 09:18:29 amWell there is a forgotten fluorescent light product called induction lighting aka electrodeless fluorescent lighting. For more than 10 years, I've done consulting for end customers and design engineering for manufacturers about this very topic of ROI (Return On Investment) and TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) for hazardous and hard to reach maintenance.I've never had any customer on retail store, supermarket so I cannot tell but for heavy industry (steal mill with hot ambiant), tunnel lighting, aircraft painting hangar... then induction lighting wins about electroded FL and LED. The right finance computation covers energy savings which is less than LED but for hazardous, hard to reach maintenance the right computation and conclusion is dictated by cost of replacing lamp fixtures.The good news, there is no ban on induction lighting which is still fluorescent light generator but no electrodes (no sputtering, very slow aging from Hg consumption) plus based an amalgam of mercury (safe) instead of mercury vapor (very dangerous).I made this Part 1 video long ago but if interest, I could update with more video including the ballast output power metering using HF differential high voltage probe and current probes with DSO computing live Irms, Vrms, W (active power), power factor.

author: Tantratron
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:51:00 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 17, 2025, 09:12:05 amWithout going into the theory and practice of LF or HF plasma lighting, in general a well designed electronic ballast can last very long. A ballast for any plasma lamp is a modulated current source, not a modulated voltage source. So it will make always the same Irms current output but the voltage will depend on the plasma tube health status (i.e. FL tube). When tube ages and deteriorates due to electroded sputtering, mercury consumption then its reflected impedance to the ballast will increase so voltage will increase. So at some point, the ballast will be either be destroyed due to high voltage reflection or will cut for safety then you think failure.

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 05:15:48 pm
content: Since the OP mentioned that the ballasts have been running for 15 years, 10 hours a day, here’s a thought that it could actually be due to that.I’d bet anything that in none of the ballasts the 22µF/450V smoothing capacitor still has any measurable capacitance left. The ballast doesn’t really care—it will keep working anyway. But now, at the output, we end up with an RF signal (40–10kHz switching frequency) modulated by a 100Hz envelope (only positive half-waves), i.e. an AM modulation. That could very well be the reason why the Philips tubes wear out prematurely.

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 11:13:51 am
content: Quote from: Uunoctium on August 17, 2025, 05:15:48 pmThat sounds like an interesting possibility. So he'd have to troubleshoot the ballasts and see what turns up.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 11:23:43 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 15, 2025, 05:58:10 pmDo all stores have the same opening hours? Do the shops in urban areas generally have longer opening hours, than those in rural areas? Could it simply be the case the lights have more running hours per year, in urban, compared to rural areas?

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 03:56:46 pm
content: Quote from: MrAl on August 18, 2025, 11:13:51 am

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 04:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on August 18, 2025, 03:56:46 pmPlease edit your reply so that your reply is clearly visible as the reply; as it appears now, you just modified MrAl's post.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 05:02:53 pm
content: Sorry, that OP is having troubles. However, we shouldn't 'trust' the veracity of someone that's not in the field of technical expertise, for some preliminary diagnosis (all talk). No experts were brought in, apparently, or OP would have been able to quote from their assessment.First clue, that this is going to be a 'translate the OP, and ask him for more answers...', was the whole use of 'frequencies' in a wrong sense, of being a noun. As in "Some 5g frequencies must have got into MY HEAD.". That's a big TURN-OFF, similar to when a doctor must deal with a patient, who maybe claims to have made his own diagnosis, after reading about some new disease.It's 'Volts per Meter' although intense HF does affect things, and so the term 'frequencies' has some, indirect, layperson validity. To myself (and also to 'us' here) that style of talk is a let-down, because now you've got a whole world technology 'sub-set' corrupted by rumours and lazy applied science (physics terminology mis-applied).Some reasonable explanation, to start, I would explain the distance effects, and how fast the EM Fields decay, with distance, making (any) effects of those 'frequencys' or more correctly said 'EM Waves', as very diminished.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 05:12:05 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on August 18, 2025, 05:02:53 pmYeah. OP says they brought in "many expert electricians", but the reply also makes me doubt this. (Especially the "expert" part; I mean someone highly experienced in the specific area of power quality.)Quote from: YU2 on August 16, 2025, 08:00:45 pm

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 06:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on August 18, 2025, 11:23:43 amYes, more or less the same, the difference is in some is + 60 minutes, or -30 minutes. Some in the metropolitan areas close later than usual, but they also open later, its so when they are in some shopping Mall.We are talking about hundert of thousands of these ballasts. They were not mounted all at once, it was a Prozess that took years.They get now slowly changed with a LED ballast, or the Lighting is changed completely. Its however a time consuming and very expensive Prozess.When a get a chance next time I am going to measure that cappacitor

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 05:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 18, 2025, 06:33:49 pmHi,Yes, often progress seems like such a horrific problem creator. Everybody complains about OBDII too. It's all a nuisance.