Genuine Hakko FX-888D? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:08:43 am
content: Hello Everyone,To start off, I'm sorry that this is maybe the millionth Hakko FX-888(D) thread but I'll give it a shot anyway.Currently I'm in the market for a good soldering station, and of course couldn't get away to look at the Hakko FX-888D.I stumbled upon this eBay seller who apparently sells the genuine Hakko:eBay auction: #201405708758As many people know it is hard to find a decent priced unit here in Europe (or The Netherlands where I live they sell for €160,-). But the one form eBay will cost me €114,- delivered form Latvia.Aside from that I also considered other units within my budget (around €120,-)Ersa i-Con Pico, €122,- delivered from Amazon.deAoyue 9376, €82,- delivered from eleshop.nlAoyue 3210, €92,- delivered from eleshop.nlThe Ersa-Con Pico seems to be better specced (80W), but I've seen other posts here where people say the build quality of the iron is just so-so (plastic threaded tip screw mount), and it's not ESD-safe. I know the Ersa i-Con Nano has metal screw parts in the iron and is ESD safe, but both the station set itself and replacement parts are not in my budget (Station set is €178,- delivered, replacement iron is €144,-)Both the Aoyues don't really convince me in terms of the build quality, reviewers tend to criticize the cheap plastics and low quality materials.In the end I'm looking for a high quality unit which will last me at least 15 years or so, to do any kind of hobby-grade soldering (not specifically lead-free tough).If someone could only tell me what my best bet is here in Europe I already would be a happy man.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:37:10 am
content: I wouldn't buy anything labeled "Hakko" from ebay... Regardless what the seller says... You may very likely end up with a fake... For us Europeans, the cheapest source for a genuine FX-888D seems to be Batterfly from Italy:http://www.batterfly.com/shop/hakko_fx-888d

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:38:42 am
content: One thing that says it "might" be genuine is the base of the iron holder, it has the Hakko design for the sponge water well and not the flat design most copies have

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:47:41 am
content: http://www.datalog.co.uk/browse/detail.php/CompanyNumber/08603648/CompanyName/SEMICOM+LTDhttp://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/semicom-ltd-08603648/Having done a quick google check for fakes and this company can't find any complaints, and it looks legit as a business.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:54:17 am
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 15, 2015, 09:08:43 amHakko probably is genuine, here is their website, Batterfly have discount on 888D too (maybe someone with the sane mine appeared at hakko marketing department).http://www.semicom.lv/Instrumenti_Ra%C5%BE_iek%C4%81rtas/Lod%C4%81muri_piederumi/Lod%C4%93%C5%A1anas_stacijas/Genuine_HAKKO_FX_888D_soldering_station_with_iron_holder_sponge_and_brass_wool_1965536_0.htmlAFAIK i-CON pico have the heater connected to internal ground, so you should be able to modify it for being (almost) ESD safe. Change the cable and connect ground to earth wire. Aoyuo is a joke compared to ERSA, plastics it is made of, unlikely to be ESD safe too. 888D also don't compare well with ERSA. Nano heating element is the same as in more expensive I-CON stations, hence the price for the replacement iron. Actually price for NANO seem to be dropped to what it did cost previously. Also I don't know why you would want to change soldering iron, it's very unlikely to fail.i-tool compared to Hakko clone iron (same size as original)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:54:57 am
content: Quote from: Deathwish on August 15, 2015, 09:47:41 amIt's not UK company, probably they registered UK business for some legal reasons.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 09:59:40 am
content: Thanks! Indeed I checked Batterfly for the Hakko FX-888D, but for me the total costs including tax and shipping would be €140,- which is a bit on the expensive side for a Hakko to me. On the other hand I've seen the reputation and customer service at Batterfly is excellent and they are listed on the Hakko official distributors list. I have sent a message to the eBay seller to ask if it is really genuine, and if I can return it (on their cost perhaps) when it turns out to be a fake. I'm curious, because if this really is a genuine Hakko it would be a great deal not only for me! I'll keep you posted on this.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 10:07:08 am
content: Quote from: wraper on August 15, 2015, 09:54:57 amI never said it was a UK company, merely that I had looked it up and it seems legit

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 10:24:30 am
content: Quote from: wraper on August 15, 2015, 09:54:17 amTo me it looks like that is the i-Tool Nano (with metal threading to hold the tip screw) vs the i-Con Pico which uses the i-Tool Pico (with plastic threading).From another thread I read the plastic might not be durable in comparison to the i-Tool NanoSee the picture in this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ersa-icon-pico-vs-icon-nano!-is-esd-protection-important-soldering-station/msg448964/#msg448964I'm not sure if I should take this one complaint I've read in consideration, but it may prove to be true in the future.Back to your actual information; I wonder if I really need an ESD-safe iron (or mod a non-ESD safe one). The most sensitive components I soldered so far are transistors and never had any problems so far, but I may solder IC's and what not in the future. Better to be safe than sorry I think in this case...For reference:i-Tool Nano:http://www.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/tools-for-soldering-stations/produkt-details/i-tool-nano-1.htmli-Tool Pico:http://www.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/tools-for-soldering-stations/produkt-details/i-tool-pico.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 12:02:23 pm
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 15, 2015, 10:24:30 amIt's i-tool, not i-tool nano. I just shown the size difference (all kinds of i-tools are of the same size).Anyway, I change tips a lot (my I-CON 2 is 6 years old ) and nothing happened with a plastic thread in tip holder. Guess plastic it hearing element shouldn't be any worse.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 12:22:43 pm
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 15, 2015, 10:24:30 amAlways better to be safe than sorry. Get ESD safe and don't worry about it as long as your workspace is ESD safe also.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2015, 12:47:50 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 15, 2015, 12:02:23 pmGlad to hear it doesn't wear as quickly as I expected. But I'm still confused about the irons as the linked irons on the ERSA website are different. model no. 0120CDK for the i-Con Nano and 0130CDK for the i-Con Pico.It shouldn't matter that much I understand, but still...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 06:37:32 am
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 15, 2015, 12:47:50 pmThe iron used for the Nano is grounded at the tip (ESD compliant), while the Pico isn't.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 08:37:31 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 16, 2015, 06:37:32 amThat's what at least justifies the price difference (almost double?!)...

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 09:13:54 am
content: As far as I know it's essentially a rebadged i-tool from their professional line, with the same 150W heating element and motion sensor (though not used in the nano). The pico wand seems to be a cut down version for hobbyists, build to a lower price.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 09:41:46 am
content: Quote from: Augustus on August 16, 2015, 09:13:54 amFrom what I've read the Pico iron does not have a motion sensor, but when the station itself detects a drop of 5 degrees C it will resume from sleep mode, but I could be wrong. Indeed it looks like a cut-down version of a more expensive iron.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 09:44:57 am
content: I got my Hakko 888 for $120 from ebay.It works great and from everything i can see looks legit.So, if it's fake, it's such a good fake to be just as good. IMHO.If its fake they went to an unusually extreme amount of effort to make it identical.All the parts of the station came sealed in hakko branded plastic bags and all the parts feel to use top quality plastic.I've had it for 2 years now and apart from blowing a fuse once (dunno why) it has worked perfectly and solders effortlesslyI would buy another in a heartbeat, though i'd probably use the same seller.Edit: Seller was plc-expert but they dont seem to be selling them any more.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 09:51:52 am
content: It could be a genuine unit originally intended for the Chinese market. I'm just not willing to take the risk that it may fail prematurely and cost me more money in the future. Just my opinion.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 10:13:38 am
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 16, 2015, 08:37:31 amThere are a few other differences as others have pointed out, which affect the features that are available between them (i.e. affect setback & auto-sleep features available on the more expensive Nano). And it's accomplished by changing a relatively small number of parts (systems engineering).Regarding fake vs. real Hakko FX-888D stations, there's at least one comparison thread (Fake Hakko FX-888D vs genuine - photo comparison & short video). The differences are in the details, so it can be hard to discern a fake (really need photos, video, or direct physical access to a real one). Gets a little bit easier IMHO with the FX-951 counterfeits, as they're missing the stand connection.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 10:46:43 am
content: Well I just found this page containing several very high quality pictures of the genuine FX-888D where you can really see all the important bits where the fake ones use different parts/wiring methods. May be useful to someone.http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2013/03/hakko-fx-888d-solder-station-hi-res.htmlAside from that I'm still waiting for the response to my question I sent the eBay seller. If he can assure me it is the real deal and when I can send it back when it turns out to be fake I will definitely order it there.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 05:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 15, 2015, 09:59:40 amWell, I just checked, the eBay offer, including shipping and vat, turns out to be ~138€... Uhummm? That's really notthatmuch cheaper than 140 € from Batterfly?

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 05:43:21 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on August 16, 2015, 05:30:04 pmTotal costs for me are about € 114 including shipping from Latvia. (See the image). Not seen tax before on eBay, where would I be able to check that? But I think I'm not going for the HAKKO anymore, because the higher price in combination with few parts available for a decent price in Europe. I'm looking into the Ersa I-Con line now, still deciding between the Pico and the Nano.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 05:55:26 pm
content: Hmmm... You're probably right, I just got confused about the "Please remember that buyer is responsible for all import duties, taxes, and charges." annotation and thought the price is excluding vat. But that probably only applies to customers outside of the EU...

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 06:07:48 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on August 16, 2015, 05:55:26 pmIt's a bit confusing here as the eBay listing was first in Euro and now it is in GBP. PayPal convert fees from EUR to GBP included totals around €119, so it keeps getting more. But on the website of the eBay seller (Semicom) the HAKKO is listed for €112 IIRC. That seems the same price but now with tax included. So there is a difference between their own site and the eBay listing, price wise.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 06:28:50 pm
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 15, 2015, 09:08:43 amHonestly, if your time is worth anything at all, stop shopping around and order an i-Con Nano from Amazon. (Just quickly compare .de/.fr/.it, etc. -- sometimes it's cheaper on one or the other.) You will be happy with it -- as I am with mine.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 06:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 16, 2015, 06:28:50 pmIndeed I'm getting a bit tired of all this comparing one to another. I may as well spend a bit more and be confident about it instead of endlessly searching for the best deal. I'll let it rest until tomorrow, then I will make my final choice.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 12:29:45 am
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 16, 2015, 05:43:21 pmI'd recommend getting the Nano, particularly for the ESD compliance (extra features are nice too).For pricing, check outI-Con Nano at Beta-Store, directly from Ersa, and possibly even Weidinger.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 08:25:01 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 17, 2015, 12:29:45 amThank you for these other suppliers, never seen those before. But in the end Amazon.de is the cheapest option. I have narrowed down my choice to the Ersa I-CON Nano and the HAKKO FX-888D.What most important advantages does the Ersa have over the HAKKO for a hobbyist? (aside from higher wattage)

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 08:32:42 am
content: This morning I received a reply to my question from the eBay seller Semicom. They assured me that they only sell genuine HAKKO products and that I can ask for pictures as proof. Also no problem sending the unit back if it would turn out to be fake.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 08:47:13 am
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 17, 2015, 08:25:01 amCannot say that particularly for hobbyist, but I find much more pleasure to work with i-tool. Not i-tool nano, but almost the same thing with the same heating element. Easier to solder in some cramped places, where it might be hard to reach with bigger solder iron (especially repairs). Easier to solder small SMT parts, because of the distance from handle to the tip. Overall if you only solder TH parts, that might not make too much difference. But when soldering some tiny stuff on multiplayer boards with high thermal mass, the difference will be very noticeable.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 01:58:32 pm
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 17, 2015, 08:32:42 amThe eBay seller just updated theeBay auction: #201405708758with pictures of the station, iron, stand and box contents. It looks like it is the real deal to me; Nicely packaged, English, German and Italian user manual, silver plate in the stand and the labels on the bottom look very real to me. The only difference I see is they most likely removed the last four digits of the serial number to prevent copying. Other than that, it looks completely genuine to me.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 03:31:25 pm
content: In the end I finally managed to make a decision. I'm going for the Ersa I-Con Nano. Despite the higher price I think it will be better on the longer run considering replacement parts for the Hakko are not easy to get in Europe. Aside from that the Ersa looks more professional and has a more intuitive user interface when it comes to quickly adjusting the temperature. Can't wait to start soldering with it!A big thank you to everyone who contributed in this thread. I wish everyone happy soldering!

author: UgisBaltins
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 07:23:54 pm
content: HelloI hope i will not violate rules of this board and this wouldn't be cathegorized as unaothorized advertisement.Just noticed this thread, i am manager of ebay store which this topic starter mentioned. Just wanted to make it clear - all HAKKO products we offer are genuine, we don't have large stock but we keep in stock all the available tips for 8801 and some spare parts. Since Hakko seems to be the most copied soldering tools brand, we purchase them only directly from HAKKO and never from any other wholesellers. Upon your request we can always provide detailed photos (even open demo station and take a photo of mainboard)I have seen some other Hakko products from China (Actually - i don't know if they were counterfeit - or official Hakko products made in China for China market) - and even tip quality differs between Made in China and Made in Malaysia (EU products are made in Malaysia)To sanchaz12: could i kindly ask you to edit your previous message and remove those last four digits of s/n you wrote there? As i read on this board in another thread - counterfeit stations very often misses serial numbers, thats why we took a photo of our demo station and uploaded, but i'm afraid after some time it may happen that this s/n is used for knockoff . Thank you for understanding!After opening this thread we have received very great interest for our HAkko products and ebay store. We are very thankful - and i think best way to clear any doubts that we sell only genuine Hakko products - we could offer to organize competition or something here on boards with prize - FX-888D station + free international delivery. Thats of course if - administrator/moderator of this board would be interested

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 07:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: UgisBaltins on August 17, 2015, 07:23:54 pmPost edited. I'm sorry that I've posted this here, but this was just to assure others that it was very likely to be genuine.Indeed I saw the 'follow' counter grow since I posted the eBay auction. A special price would be interesting indeed, especially for people in Europe.

author: UgisBaltins
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 07:44:18 pm
content: Price is always negotiableP.S. Please check PM

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 09:51:09 am
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 17, 2015, 03:31:25 pmI was going to reply to your question with exactly this answer: Here in Europe, it's much easier to get Ersa parts than Hakko. Amazon.de carries them all, but also there's a vendor Bräunlich GmbH (sells on Amazon, too) that has great prices on Ersa parts.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 12:51:09 pm
content: Yeah, definitely check out Bräunlichs website (www.ersa-shop.com) if you are in the market for Ersa stuff. While the soldering stations may be the same price on Amazon, tips and accessories are usually cheaper at Bräunlichs. They also sell 63/37 eutectic leaded solderwire for a reasonable price, which is not so easy to get, at least not in Germany.

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 12:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: continuo on August 18, 2015, 12:51:09 pmCan't find 63/37 type solder easily in the Netherlands too, even Conrad doesn't seem to stock that type. Indeed they have lots of accessories for about every Ersa station and shipping is not that much either (€6 somewhat). Will definitely look there for parts when I need them.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 02:26:59 pm
content: Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 18, 2015, 12:56:07 pm63/37 seems to be hard to find in the EU/UK from what I've seen, and it's usually expensive. Even 62/36/2 (2% silver added to tin-lead) seems easier to find, and 60/40 is a lot more common than either.I did locate a couple though.CPC carries a roll of 63/37 that contains 2% RA flux, 0.7mm diameter fromWarton(500g roll,here). Diameter will require a little more control to keep from adding to much to fine SMD (ideal for PTH), but the price is better than anything else I've seen in 63/37 in your market.It's also possible to get Kester through Farnell (specifically:24-6337-0010, which is 1lb/454g of Kester's 44 in 63/37 alloy, 0.5mm diameter, and 3.3% RA flux). US stock, so there's a 15.95GBP fee associated with it.Checked Stannol; couldn't find 63/37 in a form you'd want (they do offer it as a 4kg roll of solid wire @ 0.3mm diameter).No 63/37 with Felder either (RA or EL lines).Both Felder and Stannol offer 60/40 though.There's also some brands made in Poland you might be able to locate (Cynelfor example).Broquetasmight be reasonably priced as well (i.e. ~$17EUR at TME for 2x 250g rolls of 60/40, COO = Spain). TME doesn't have the 63/37 products though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 07:20:53 pm
content: FYI, Amazon.com (the USA Amazon) sells a number of 63/37 solder wires from Kester and MG Chemicals that they can ship to Europe. I got some lovely Kester .31" (0.8mm) that was just $29 for a 1lb (450g) reel. Together with some MG Chemicals solder wick (#444 Super Wick, which turns out is SUPERB -- much finer weave than Soder-Wick or 3S-Wick/Spirig -- and inexpensive!!!) and other stuff (solder paste, ESD brushes for PCB cleaning, some tools), even the shipping wasn't too bad. Cheaper than buying local, I can tell you that...

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 07:33:01 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2015, 07:20:53 pmYes indeed! The only thing I can't seem to find is a good third hand for soldering. Sure I've found enough, but they all seem to be impractical or low quality. There seems to be one design standard (those shiny silver parts, always including a loop and a small black base) but this isn't very sturdy and not helpful at all in the end it seems. Haven't found a convincing one yet, but I'll keep looking...EDITThis is one of those 'popular' third hand tools, but yeah... It's not going to last from most of the reviews I've read.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:29:17 pm
content: HEAR, HEAR!!! It amazes me that every one of those things is crap as best I can tell.I ended up buying one of these in the Amazon.com order I described above:Aven 17010 Adjustable Circuit Board Holderand it's really not bad. But it just holds the board -- no magnification -- and it can't hold wires. For that, I either use the ancient dilapidated Helping Hands I bought as a kid, or I use some bare alligator clips that happen to be heavy enough to do the job.I'm currently experimenting with using my DSLR as a microscope, by using my macro lens and an HDMI cable to a computer monitor. We'll see how that works out in practice.You know what I cannot find a decent source for? Heat sink clips like this:or this:Every source I've found wants outrageous shipping costs to Switzerland.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:30:48 pm
content: instead of using those why not use a crocodile clip as a heat sink when soldering ?.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:40:35 pm
content: Well, that is what I do now, but the ones in the top image at least, are aluminum and thus lighter, and thinner so you can scoot them into smaller spaces.As an aside, if you know a source for high-quality alligator clips (like the ones on the ground leads of my Rigol scope probes), I will love you forever. All I have ever seen anywhere are the wobbly cheap clips with weak springs that love to fall off of anything and everything.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:49:39 pm
content: I just buy them from aliexpress and if they fall apart no hardship. Thanks to Tautech and some others I now seem to have shares in aliexpress , my postman hates me now ....

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 11:00:19 pm
content: The issue isn't the cost or longevity, it's that I've never found any alligator clips that actually hold well. They're always poorly made, with jaws that don't line up well, thus producing lousy grip.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 12:21:29 am
content: I tried third hands from others (unintentional sexual second meaning) and they were shitty as hell.Are there something similar but reliable, comfortable and versatile for PCB and cable soldering? It really drives me nuts, because I'm still quite bad at soldering and need a comfortable place to do it without back hurt or tons of frustration.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 01:45:51 am
content: I've kinda come to the conclusion that there is no one all-in-one holder that works well for PCBs and wires. For PCBs, I picked up a dedicated holder (see post above). For wires, I'd like to find the coil contraption shown in this NASA soldering training:

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 01:50:40 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on August 19, 2015, 12:21:29 amTake a look at this video series by PACE Worldwide:Basic Soldering Lessons 1 - 9They cover pretty much everything except SMD, which is actually not that hard. I suggest buying a bunch of cheap Chinese LED clock kits from eBay as practice.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 02:39:27 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 19, 2015, 01:50:40 amGreat!I'm not so good at listening English, but the automated YouTube transcription does a somewhat good job that makes me understand most of it.Thanks!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 05:39:30 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2015, 07:20:53 pmSorry, I don't think of Amazon when pricing out items. Their labor practices appall me (it's global, so the UK & German facilities are affected), so I try to buy elsewhere if possible.Quote from: sanchaz12 on August 18, 2015, 07:33:01 pmYou won't in the mass produced stuff. For an effective third hand solution, you'd want to look at DIY solutions that use modular hose (such asLoc-Line).Some examples (not all are for electronics, but could still offer up some ideas).Gorilla PodDesk SquidThird Hand++Helpful Helping HandsSoldering "helping hands" made with Loc-Line coolant hoseLoc-Line, I Love This Stuff(camera mount)Examples of Solutions Made with Loc-Line from Modularhose.com(.pdf)FWIW, Wiha sells something similar (not sure who makes it, but it's Swiss; thinking this might be the easiest to locate), as does Jeton, SnapFlow, Cedarberg/Snap Loc, and Enco. There's also the super cheap Chinese version you can find on Aliexpress or eBay, but I've no idea on quality.Even with a decent set of helping hands, they're not an all-in-one solution. An interchangeable head vise system is very handy IME (I use stuff fromPanavise, which can be had in the EU/UK, but it seems it's limited). It's not exactly cheap here, but it's actually worth it (don't abuse the heck out of it, and it will last a lifetime).No idea if you'd be able to import it yourself cheaper, but I've seen some of it listed on Amazon.co.uk.Bernstein's SpannFixsystem is even nicer, but it's also more expensive IME (not sure if importing Panavise from the US would be cheaper or not).Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2015, 10:40:35 pmOK, lets not get carried away with this love thing....But you might want to take a atMueller(particularly good at making alligator clips).Not sure of the best place to get them price wise, but Farnell carries them. US stock of course, so they'd be stupidly expensive (sorry, I don't know where to get them at a reasonable price in the UK/EU market).But I do have one idea; What about buying from a US source, and using a reshipping service to get them to your door as a means of importing them?A bit indirect, but I suspect this would be a lot more cost effective than Farnell (~half the price at most I'd think). Or Amazon in a pinch I guess ().

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 01:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on August 19, 2015, 02:39:27 amThen it'll be good practice!!JBC (a similar-caliber soldering equipment maker) is based in Spain. Perhaps they have training materialsen castellano?**I had Jehovah's Witnesses ringing my doorbell yesterday, asking if I "¿Habla castellano?" just because my last name is Spanish. (As if there were many Spanish speakers here...)

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 01:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 19, 2015, 01:45:51 amSeek and ye shall find.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/358-Panavise-Vice-Accessory-Wire-Manager-/141748618935?hash=item2100e046b7

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 01:43:08 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 19, 2015, 05:39:30 amI wish I had viable alternatives to Amazon, because of those issues. But frankly, I simply am not wealthy enough to go through other channels, which rape my wallet either with the price (local dealers) or import duty (almost all foreign vendors other than Amazon).Quote from: nanofrog on August 19, 2015, 05:39:30 amWow, I'll take a look at those in detail when I have a moment!Quote from: nanofrog on August 19, 2015, 05:39:30 amUnfortunately, it's not necessarily the item or even shipping costs that are the problem; it's that the Swiss Post charges seemingly arbitrary customs admin fees anywhere between about $15-50 just to inspect a package and determine that you owe 84¢ in sales tax. (Packages under about $65 value are exempt. Usually...) So a simple $100 order can easily balloon to $150. Amazon's big advantage is their AmazonGlobal program, under which Amazon itself handles customs clearance (at low cost), so there are absolutely no surprises. But of course, Amazon doesn't really sell electronic components, and even if they did, not all products are AmazonGlobal eligible.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 02:08:54 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 19, 2015, 01:43:08 pmHow did Amazon manage a monopoly of that sort?Quote from: tooki on August 19, 2015, 01:43:08 pmI'd have thought there was a way around this issue with reshippers (i.e. they put the US orders in a shipping container, bring it in the country of destination, then repack & label and send it via the local postal system; Swiss Post in your case). Which makes me think you won't get hit with those ridiculous variable fees just to open it to see what the import charges are (as I understand it, the reshippers have agreements with various customs agencies, and it's included in the final fee they charge).I may be wrong, or it may turn out Switzerland doesn't have such customs agreements or something, so would need to be checked out. But it seems like it might be worth the research to find alternative sources.

author: gilbenl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 02:50:22 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 19, 2015, 01:45:51 amLittle diversion, but...Notwithstanding those of us assembling satellites and flux capacitors, does anyone actually go to these lengths when soldering? I'm particularly interested in the opinion of those in industry. Do you really sit there with your box of Kim-Wipes and EtOH dobber and spend 10 minutes on a single join?Also +1 for the guy who posted a link to the panavise spring accessory. That setup shown in the video seems to be the ticket. Certainly better than the pair of curved hemostats I've been using...

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 03:03:07 pm
content: Quote from: gilbenl on August 19, 2015, 02:50:22 pmJudging by the looks of the solder joints of the last Chinese GU10 LED lamp that blew up on me, the folks who build that booby trap for sure didn't...

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 03:05:07 pm
content: also get it from.http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/207578-panavise-vice-accessory-wire-manager-358.htmlhttp://www.tequipment.net/PanaViseAccessories358.asphttp://www.alliedelec.com/panavise-358/70200035/

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2015, 04:55:25 pm
content: crap, I wonder about Farnell, the cpc have it as your link, but the no.farnell.com of course doesnt have it..

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 12:51:05 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 19, 2015, 02:08:54 pmIt's not technically a monopoly -- it's just that most vendors don't bother to set it up. There are companies that offer this to shop owners, for examplehttp://www.globalshopex.com/howitworks.aspxQuote from: nanofrog on August 19, 2015, 02:08:54 pmNope, the reshippers I've seen use ordinary express couriers (FedEx, DHL, etc). If there are ones that do it by the containerload, I've never heard of it. (Excluding China perhaps.) If you hear of any like that, let me know!

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 02:58:14 pm
content: From what I have seen shipping from SparkFun in the USA isn't that expensive at all. For regular mail aka snail mail they charge €3 somewhat for shipping a few tips to the Netherlands. Not sure about packages and other large items but they may only stick to EMS and the regular shipping options (USPS, FedEx etc.).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 06:06:07 pm
content: Again, the problem isn't the shipping charges. It's that Swiss Post will charge a huge fee for customs clearance. (All the courier services use Swiss Post for customs clearance.)

author: sanchaz12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 06:17:23 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 23, 2015, 06:06:07 pmSorry, I didn't read everything properly. But yes indeed, that kind of limits you to buy locally (or at least within Europe).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 09:18:31 pm
content: Not even within Europe: Switzerland is not part of the EU, so customs is due even if you order just across the border in Germany or Italy, for example.