Choosing an oscilloscope under $500 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 06:54:53 pm
content: Hello,Thanks for allowing me to join this community!So I've been looking around at oscilloscopes, (I'm building an electronics lab,) and I've narrowed it down to two scopes the DS1054Z and the SDS1102X. I'm not sure which is the better choice. Sure the four BNCs on the Rigol are nice, but I get the feeling between the SDS and an analogue scope (looking around for a good one currently) I will be able to examine plenty of wave forms at the same time. If someone could help me decide whether it's worth spending the extra $70 for the Siglent I would really appreciate itI know both of these scopes are more than I need now, but in the future it might make a difference. I am currently leaning towards the Siglent because I like the UI and the larger screen a little more. I've compared the specs, and watched the tear downs and reviews, but it's still not clear which would be a better scope. Thanks for your time!Best,Jeff

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 07:05:12 pm
content: If you are not going to hack the scope for more bandwidth or serial decoding, get GDS-1054Bhttp://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1054B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 07:12:28 pm
content: If you don't need four channels or protocol decoding, the GDS-1054B is a compelling choice. It's newer, so you may not have seen it before.If you don't mind hacking your devices and can make use of the added features, the Rigol 1054Z is hard to beat.

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 07:18:19 pm
content: I don't mind hacking the Rigol. The siglent will come with serial decode as per a promotion they have running currently, and a student discount saves me about forty bucks. My campus has Rigols in the lab but they're older 2 channels.Thanks for the advice, seems like no one like the Siglent?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 07:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 07:18:19 pmSiglent is a very shady company as well. The 1054Z is the one to get in this price range.

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:23:41 pm
content: I see... Does that mean I should change my choice of arb as well? I was looking at the SDG1025. I should probably consider the DG1022 then? Unless anyone has a better recommendation around $350. Sounds like I'll be building my lab off Rigol supplies.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:25:38 pm
content: With Rigol, you need to consider if you can live with bugs it it is ridden with. It is mostly fine, but can catch you with some surprise once in a while. Also controls are more ergonomic in instek. Front panel on 1054Z is very cramped and may be tough to use, especially if you have big hands. Menu is with a snail speed if compared to instek too. You may search this forum about Rigol's shortcomings/problems. There is written a lot.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/my-new-(i-suspect-faulty)-ds1054z/msg963345/#msg963345

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 07:18:19 pmAs your thread is ONLY a few hrs old you can in no way judge responses in that manner just yet.You WILL get polarised opinions from both sides of the spectrum so study well all those offered and then make your decision.As some are firing low blows already there's certain threads you need be aware of to assist you in a fully informed decision.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/project-yaigol-fixing-rigol-scope-design-problems/If you wish to future proof you purchase somewhat may I suggest you study up on the new SDS1000 Plus models that have 16 channel LA and the AWG all in the one box.The 16 ch LA has decoding capability too.http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4688&T=2&tid=1If you haven't spied the SDS1000X thread already:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:31:10 pm
content: Don't buy anything from siglent if you are not sure you don't want to sell it on Ebay later...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-'wrongful-trademark-claim'/

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:32:52 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 08:23:41 pmI'm not familiar with either of the above, but Siglent has proven itself to be untrustworthy.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:37:19 pm
content: I bought the Rigol DS1054Z so, obviously, I made some kind of decision. I wanted, more than any other feature, the 4 channels. I knew I could hack the bandwidth and decoding but even if I couldn't, I would have bought it for the channels.SPI has 4 signals: I want to sync on CS' and display that signal along with Clk, MISO and MOSI. I don't particularly care about the decoding but it's a pretty cool feature. But it wasn't a selling point.My analog computer works with a 1 second time scale and one day I may speed it up to 10 mS. So, the voltage can change 20V in 10 mS. That's not going to challenge ANY scope. But if I'm working on equations of motion, I want to display Displacement, Velocity and Acceleration while syncing on Run. Again, I want 4 channels more than any other feature.All in, I would have picked the Rigol over the Siglent regardless of other features and the SDS1102. It was an easy decision because I already have a two channel analog Tektronix 485 350 MHz scope.The Siglent receives good reviews from people who do this stuff for a living:http://www.ganssle.com/video/episode4-review-of-siglent-sds1102.htmlThis topic is rehashed a couple of times a week in various subforums. One epic thread has 92 pages of Rigol bashing. There are some folks who really don't think much of the DS1054Z. And, it's true, you can get a scope that's twice as good for just 3 times as much money.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 08:23:41 pmI think the right answer is DG1032 for a bit more money. There's a thread on frequency counter issues with the 1022. But it's nowhere near $350 so it really doesn't matter.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 08:54:01 pm
content: Buying any instruments will have tradeoffs. It just depends which ones you're willing to live with. The answer is different for different people and different uses.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 09:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on June 16, 2016, 08:37:19 pmHowever the OP is looking at a SDS1102X which is an entirely different beast.Quote from: rstofer on June 16, 2016, 08:38:57 pmThe newer SDG 2000X series AWG's should also be thrown into the mix, the base model SDG2042X has been hacked to 120MHz as outlined in this thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-siglent-sdg2042x-thread/

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 09:44:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 16, 2016, 09:34:50 pmOops, my bad!I went to TEquipment.net to see about the 110X and they show it as discontinued.http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDS1102X/Digital-Oscilloscopes/I still wanted the 4 channels...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 09:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on June 16, 2016, 09:44:45 pmNot discontinued, just not stocked at TE.....Salig stock Siglent now and offer discounts for forum members.I quite understand the 4 ch preference however for some work more can be preferable and with the 1000X+ models LA option you could display a total of 18 albeit 16 at the low voltage max of ~40V.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:21:46 pm
content: Is search disabled for the newb's or what?

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:27:07 pm
content: Okay, well being as I'm a noob to all this, I don't know much about the features or demand for them. I have only built a few analogue circuits in my electronics studies. Basically I'm looking to spend under $900 on a function generator and scope. The two scopes that appealed to me I mentioned previously. Tequipment quoted me $732 for the DS1054Z and the DG1022. That seems like a pretty good deal but I'm willing to spend a little more if it will be worth it to me in the long run. I plan to go through most if not all of AoE, as that's where I started in my electronics class.

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on June 16, 2016, 10:21:46 pmOh, I've searched, but found no definitive reason to be swayed one way or the other. My research lead me to the two choices aforementioned.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:35:34 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 10:27:07 pmDo you need a standalone AWG when basic AWG functionality is already inbuilt in these DSO's?

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:46:40 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 16, 2016, 10:35:34 pmDoes the DS1054Z have a built in function generator? I didn't see that spec. I likely won't need a full featured arb for a while in which case the Rigol will probably cover me for quite a while.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:57:06 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 10:46:40 pmNo, the DS1054Z does not have a signal generator. Other models do but they tend to be more costly.Somehow I've been playing around with this stuff for decades and I still don't have a bench power supply or a signal generator. I haven't done much with analog electronics (the equations are too much effort) so I have stayed in the digital sandbox.Now I am looking at the DG1032 for a signal generator and the DP832 for a power supply. I have decided to get up to speed on the math so I might as well venture into the analog world. None of these instruments are at the high end of the price continuum and they probably lack a bunch of modern features but as long as the supply is capable of tracking the +15 and -15, I'm satisfied.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:57:44 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 16, 2016, 10:46:40 pmWhile you've already spent apparently a good bit of time studying up on DSO's don't hurry it, we all understand for those starting out and studying as well it can be a significant outlay to get your first decent DSO....it was for me as a hobbyist more than a decade ago.Just the links already provided should take a day or more to fully digest.Study all the datasheets and threads and take your time.Come back with any queries you may have.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 11:52:28 pm
content: You should look at my thread under test equipment. There were various suggestions made and various information.I suggest avoiding OEM or rebranded ones. Whether you get rigol, siglent or even something like agilent even 2nd hand can also be considered. The first important thing you should ask yourself is what do you plan to use your scope for, what will you need it for? What performance do you want from it and what features. Im not an EEE student so i dont need waveform generators and that stuff. How many channels will you need (as in what is the most you will measure at a time).Before i posted on this forum i researched the relationship between various performance stats on a digital scope and what things dont they mention. Before you buy a scope, watch a video about the condition in which the maximum performance of the scope is available as cheaper scopes will reduce the performance on different settings. You cant be picky under $500 but sometimes quality 2nd hand scopes can be considered too. The analog discovery also looks interesting as the ADC is 14 bit meaning you can work on audio with it and it fully relies on your PC's processing power and RAM but other usb scopes may do their own processing instead and the PC is solely used as a display such as with picoscope.Dave has tutorial videos too about starting out but since you are a student studying EEE you may need more than the hobbyist starter.The siglent SDS1000x (or is it SDG?) was my first choice initially. My budget was bigger than yours but i found GW which was slightly more than my budget but was a good deal as it was on discount. In your case the siglent will do you more good than the rigol for the 100Mhz stuff but feature wise for things other than measuring i wouldnt know. If the rigol unlocked has a waveform generator that would really benefit. A decoder can be helpful too depending on what you're studying and what work you're doing.edit: And Tautech, it seems you copy paste your initial post for siglent recommendations. The SDS1000x plus are way more than his budget is.

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 06:08:28 pm
content: So, the Rigol DS1074Z-S and the Siglent SDS1102X+ are both in my price range. But I wouldn't be getting a stand alone arb. The Rigol would save me about $150, and the Siglent would be about the same as the DS1054Z + DG1022. But the thing concerns me is the Jack of all trades aspect. Normally getting a dual featured product means both are half assed. Prime example is combination modem and routers... I feel like the extra 150 is worth spending to get a stand alone waveform generator than to buy it integrated in the oscilloscope. Opinions?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 07:47:31 pm
content: Quote from: Akya2120 on June 17, 2016, 06:08:28 pmYou are quite correct regarding the inbuilt AWG's, they aren't as powerful (features) as a standalone unit in this level of equipment. But is saying that they're at least as functional as old analogue FG's that offer a basic range of waveforms. Most still have some AWG programming ability but are mostly limited to one channel as inbuilts.They're not as easy to use as a standalone with the UI blended into the controls available on a DSO.Grab some manuals and have a look at how they're integrated (UI) into a DSO.As an addition to a DSO in my experience they don't degrade DSO capabilities.Hey, these inbuilts are getting better all the time and let's not forget the saved bench space they offer.A careful study of specs for inbuilts and standalones should reveal the performance discrepancies.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 09:17:43 pm
content: considering the quality of software produced by EEEs no doubt getting seperate would be better. In terms of computing there are modem routers that are better than consumer modems and routers that are seperate such as dratek, zyxel, using SFP on an enterprise router.

author: damn_dirty_ape
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 03:34:06 am
content: I would stop and ask why you need an oscilloscope. I bought a 20 MHz Hitachi oscilloscope for $40 off ebay. It would be a LOT nicer to have some data recording abilities, higher frequencies, fft, etc, but $40 to see a waveform is too good. My reccomendation is to get a CHEAP used analog o-scope, and then save for a really good logic analyzer or something that can do FFT. Of course, this is just me, and you might have a different application. Just my 2 cents.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:18:47 am
content: Quote from: damn_dirty_ape on June 18, 2016, 03:34:06 amHe needs one because hes studying and learning EEE. Nothing like a good oscilloscope to help you with that. If you watch EEVblog's tutorial video on setting up a decent lab he suggested both digital and analog, they both have their disadvantages and advantages so having both is much better so having both makes up for what the other lacks.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 11:08:24 am
content: Quote from: System Error Message on June 18, 2016, 09:18:47 amProblem is most tinkering and even formal learning these days is with low voltages so the skills and raw/basic knowledge required to keep an old CRO operative is uncommon in those with limited electronics experience.While that shouldn't frighten you away from owning a CRO just be aware that any investment in one without the skills to fix it could be a waste of money.IMO the only advantage of starting with a CRO is learning basic scope use as few if any of the now cheap CRO's have an Autoset button and to extract accurate measurements and waveforms from them you need to know how to "drive" one. These basic skills however set you up well for modern DSO use and the multitude of additional features they have.Fixing CRO's was my hobby at one time and while those of us members can help online we rely on the skills of the member with the busted scope and the range of tools they have in order to fix it. I was never without 2 running CRO's just in case the other broke down so IMHO the beginner should start with a new DSO for reliability.

author: Akya2120
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 10:18:57 pm
content: Yes, I watched the lab setup video. I've decided I'm going to get the rigol DS1054Z and the siglent SDG1025. I considered getting the DS1074Z-S plus, but the mso feature isn't that much of an upgrade and I can get another logic analyzer later. Having a seperate function generator will be more useful, and there will be less fiddling. From what I've read, it seems better than the Rigol DG1022. If the Siglent SDS1102X was a four channel I would probably go with that. The UI is a little better, and the scope is generally more responsive, but the four channels are worth having. I have been keeping an eye out for an analogue scope, and will certainly pick one up when I find a deal. I have used CROs before, and I try to stay away from the auto setup button as is. Thanks for the input everyone! I'll be making my purchase tomorrow.