Request for help with translation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 11:26:54 am
content: I maintain the DeepSkyStacker astronomical image stacking software.It's translated into 12 non-English languages. I've a passing acquaintance with many of them and can get the job done with help from Google translate, but some languages I cannot handle.I've got some strings I want translated to Czech, Russian, Turkish and Traditional Chinese:The checked pictures are not compatible: %1.Master dark used and more than one dark loadedMaster dark flat used and more than one dark flat loadedMaster flat used and more than one flat loadedMaster offset used and more than one offset loadedWidth mismatchHeight mismatchColour depth mismatchNumber of channels mismatchthe %1 in the first string is a placeholder for one of the strings below.I have tentative translations for the first string:Czech Vybrané obrazy nejsou slučitelné %1.Russian Отмеченные кадры разные, не совместимы: %1.Turkish İşaretli görüntüler birbirleriyle uyuşmuyor: %1.Trad.Chinese 勾選的影像彼此不相容: %1.If you're a native (or fluent) speaker of (one or more) of the languages in question (or know someone who is), please would you let me know the correct translations.Please reply here rather than by PM - I'd prefer to get eyes on the translations just in case some joker decides to feed me a "dodgy" translation.PS the terms Dark, Dark Flat, Flat, Offset with or without the Master modifier are domain specific. Some languages translate these terms (e.g. French), others don't (e.g. Dutch).Many thanksDavid

author: Vincent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 01:51:47 pm
content: You mentioned French. It's my first language so maybe I can help.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 02:34:49 pm
content: no need for human translationDeepL app, web very accurate long texts, docs, free, very accuratehttps://www.deepl.com/translatorHighland Reccomendedj

author: oz2cpu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 07:49:39 pm
content: i strongly encurage people who use a computer and computer programs to install and use only English programs,it is directly bad to use a program in what ever else language, even if it is available,simply : it is impossible to search for help online,no matter where you are from, please release ALL programs in English only.. much less frustrations and wasted time globally,

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 08:01:32 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on January 26, 2023, 02:34:49 pmMaybe one day, but not today.Having translated a major software program (several thousand strings, plus all documentation, correspondence templates, etc.) I can assure you: it’s not even easy for a professional translator to do. (Translating software isn’t like translating long-form text.) It’s not uncommon for software localization to require changes in code (to handle things like pluralization and word order, since variables may not appear in a string in the same order in every language).I wish you’d stop posting so many replies about things you don’t know anything about. It’s fine to not know stuff. It’s not cool to not know something, but pretend you do…

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 08:03:51 pm
content: Quote from: perdrix on January 26, 2023, 11:26:54 amFYI, you’ll need to supply the translators with the existing translated strings for their language, so they can match existing terminology, etc.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 08:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on January 26, 2023, 02:34:49 pmThose computer programs are getting so darn smart these days! Your auto-correction even inserted its own comment on the wisdom of blindly trusting computers with natural language matters."Highland Recommended"... Thanks for the chuckle.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 12:30:51 am
content: Quote from: perdrix on January 26, 2023, 11:26:54 amA knowledge in that specific domain (astronomy) is also required, I presume

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 10:05:18 am
content: Interesting comments ...The existing translation work was done by native speakers of each language who wanted the programme translated to their native language.I wholeheartedly agree that having a good English version is better than a badly translated version ...Word order issues - Oh yes, and of course things like singular, paucal (or dual), and plural; and 1.000.000 versus 1,000,000 etc. etc.. Luckily Qt takes at least some of the the pain out of that.If you (or someone you know) is/are a native or fluent speaker of Czech, Russian, Turkish, or Trad. Chinese, and can spare a few minutes, I really could do with having those strings translated for the next beta release.Yes, a limited knowledge of Astrophotography will help.ThanksDavid

author: harerod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 08:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 26, 2023, 08:01:32 pmThe worst feature of DeepL is its tendency of faking a smooth, albeit wrong translation. Only this morning I was asked to comment on a translation Japanese->English by that abomination.The source was a newspaper article. Even with the context of "flying kites" it managed to render "揚" into "frying" (there is a cooking style that uses the same kanji, as in 唐揚げ). If this was done by a human translator, knowing the Japanese's weakness with liquid sounds, it would be considered rather insulting.Even the better translation tools suffer from lack of context. Therefore translating a batch of strings from a UI can but end in disaster.As we recently iterated in another thread, the best translator is a native speaker of the target language, with high proficiency in the source language plus a background in the topic at hand.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 04:47:59 am
content: using reverso, duolinguo, Google and Bing translation some years, all have various downsides and limitations.Discovered Deep 2 years ago, never looked back. At least for French >< English itt's he best, fastes, and most accurate.By switching back and forth one can correct a slightly faulty translation.Jon

author: DavidKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 08:06:16 am
content: Quote from: perdrix on January 26, 2023, 11:26:54 amPlease find it behing the text. I must say, I'm not too much familiar with DSS, but I hope that the translation is correct. I used DSS in English to avoid naming confusion. I have posted remark to czech astronomical forum, if they can check it here.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 10:30:31 am
content: Quote from: jonpaul on January 30, 2023, 04:47:59 amMachine translation is fine for understanding the gist of a document in a language you don’t speak.But it simply isn’t good enough for things like software, and the problem is, if you’re translating into a language you don’t speak yourself,you can’t identify the errors,since the back-translation may appear correct!One of the issues is that software contains lots of strings that aren’t complete sentences. The correct translation depends not only on subject matter expertise, but on context that the machine translator doesn’t have. (For example, menu items live within the context of the menu they’re within.)Professional software translators use special software to help automate the translation process (e.g. by managing terminology, established translation snippets, recognizing existing terminology, etc), but the final translation is still performed by a human.But what do I know, I only did that exact work for several years…

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 10:51:46 am
content: Quote from: DavidKo on January 30, 2023, 08:06:16 amThanks very much. I think you may need to change those a little:e.g. Použit master dark, ale načteno vícetranslates back to English as: Use master dark but loaded morewould: Byl použit Master Dark, ale bylo nahráno více než jedno Darkbe better?Thanks again, David

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 10:53:17 am
content: I now have the Trad. Chinese translations:勾选的图片不相容: %1.使用了 Master Dark 但加載了不止一張 Dark 圖像使用了 Master Dark Flat 但加載了不止一張 Dark Flat 圖像使用了 Master Flat 但加載了不止一張 Flat 圖像使用了 Master Offset 但加載了不止一張 Offset 圖像寬度不同高度不同顏色深度不同通道数不同David

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 01:23:22 pm
content: Quote from: harerod on January 29, 2023, 08:29:36 pmAbsolutely. I'm afraid it's going to be a long boring story, like trying to learn math through reading a FAQs. How many messages are there to translate? It's not necessarily about money, I think the best way would be to find an interested people at an astronomy forum and let them to contribute to the open source code.

author: DavidKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 02:45:05 pm
content: To be true I was struggling a lot with translation of the 4 sentences. They to not make too much sense to me even in English.The checked pictures are not compatible: Master dark used and more than one dark loadedWhat you want to say with this sentenceand more than one dark loaded?For me make sense something like "Master dark used, rest of the loaded dark pictures not used" or "Master dark used instead of loaded dark pictures"

author: DavidKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 02:55:06 pm
content: Quote from: perdrix on January 30, 2023, 10:51:46 amThe back translation of the part before the comma is wrong. You can use both "Použit" or "Byl použit" it will have same meaning in Czech.usecan be translated as použít when used as a command.

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:04:40 pm
content: Some background:A dark (or dark frame) is an image take with the lens cap on with the same exposure as a "light" which is an image of the star field. This allows correction of faults in the sensor. A flat (or flat frame) is an image of an evenly illuminated field which allow correction of problems like vignetting or dust motes. A dark flat is a dark taken with the same exposure as the flat. An offset or bias frame is taken with lens cap on and the shortest possible exposure. All these are "calibration" frames/images.It is possible to take multiple calibration frames of a given type and "stack" them to create an image that is a noise reduced median (typically) of those images. This is referred to as a Master frame - so a Master Dark is built from a set of Dark frames. Similarly for the other calibration frame types.When stacking lights, you can either supply a set of Darks which are processed to create a temporary Master Dark, or you can supply a Master Dark on its own. In this case it makes no sense to supply any other Darks. In either case the master dark is subtracted from the lights to correct sensor faults, and the lights are then stacked to reduce noise.If you use a master image of any type, it makes no sense to supply a set of images of the same type as the master (dark/dark flat/flat/offset) already contains what is needed.HtHDavid

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:07:38 pm
content: Quote from: DavidKo on January 30, 2023, 02:45:05 pmI'm saying that if the user provides a Master Dark (e.g.) it is an error to load any other Dark images.

author: DavidKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:14:08 pm
content: It is an information or an error message and user need to correct his input?

author: DavidKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:29:56 pm
content: If it is the information than there should be the information what happened and not confuse the user with half information. Since sentence "and more pictures are loaded" gives no additional information. It gives additional questions - will the program use them, will it crash later, will it delete them ...If it is an error message than I'm missing clear information what to do. Like "Use only one Master dark picture".It confirms what I have heard in one of the programming lessons - the hardest part is the user interface. Users can produce inputs that did not came programmer into mind

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:49:03 pm
content: No it is very simple:If you load a Master Dark frame (e.g.) it is an error to load any other Dark frames.

author: DavidKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 04:48:31 pm
content: Ah OK. So the program stops and you need to go one step back and unselect the wrong files.I'm not able to replicate the error with my knowledge of the DSS, so I cannot see how the program behave.

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:55:48 am
content: I just discovered that the messages of the form "Master <type> used and more than one <type> loaded" are in a dead code path (no longer called).So I think I have most of what I need apart from Turkish...Thanks for all the help so far

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 07:28:48 pm
content: Im i bit shooting and "flat" frame seem reflecting gray tone picture to calibrate a color offset.so maybe "Black tone frame" , and "Gray tone frame" would better describe it in a sentence."Master dark used and more than one dark loaded" -> Multiply Master Black tone frame used.and so ..

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 08:46:40 pm
content: All now done.