My review of The Art of Electronics, 3rd edition - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 10:05:27 pm
content: Have just finished it - constructive criticism is highly welcome.http://www.wisewarthog.com/electronics/horowitz-hill-the-art-of-electronics-3rd-edition.html

author: warp_foo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 10:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: Blofeld on April 06, 2015, 10:05:27 pmNice review. Thanks!m

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 10:24:01 pm
content: Nice review, my copy should be showing up soon.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 11:06:40 pm
content: You mean you bought this book for something else than decorating your lab, shooting teaser videos or evaluating its paper quality??Thanks for the review

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 11:45:56 pm
content: I'm wondering whether the book is any good for doing actual designs. The last AoE edition I had in my hands touched many subjects with not enough depth to get a design done. IMHO more for managers who want to learn some tech-speak so they can say something interesting during meetings...Anyway, the world got turned upside down. Before internet you read a generic book like AoE to get clues about what in-depth information to look for. Nowadays you look on the internet for clues and order a book with in-depth infomation from Amazon et al.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 11:52:03 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 06, 2015, 11:45:56 pmTAoE has a lot of hard-won comparative experience that is difficult (not impossible) to find elsewhere. For example, if you were looking for a low-noise BJT, would you even bother to look at anymedium powertransistor? I wouldn't, but that would be wrong!One significant advantage over the internet is that teh TAoE's signal-to-noise ratio is muchmuchhigher than the internet's. Sure, the "signal" is there on the internet, but finding it can be slow and difficult.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 01:33:12 am
content: What?! I am still getting through the acknowledgements! It is a big ass book!! I have the 2nd edition looking scared now though I will probably keep it for nostalgic purposes

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 05:00:01 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on April 07, 2015, 01:33:12 amAnd still it hurts that some of the chapters from the 2nd edition didn't make it into the 3rd edition. The official position of the authors seems to be "Just keep your copy of the 2nd edition or buy it as an ebook". The only problem is, this is 25-year-old information.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 06:08:57 am
content: The authors do an extremely good job of explaining complicated stuff as easy as possible (but still technical accurate)

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 06:21:57 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on April 07, 2015, 06:08:57 amThanks a lot, nowlan. Fixed. And somebody actually tried to explain that stuff to me, but that's many years ago.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 07:00:27 am
content: Quote from: Blofeld on April 07, 2015, 05:00:01 amMuch hasn't changed, since the physics is unchanged. A case in point is the "RF chapter", chapter 13.TAoE was always good outlining the fundamentals and then collating practical information into one place. Sure, some is outdated (e.g. the 68000), but aremarkableproportion of practical information isstillrelevant. That's a testament to their original wisdom and judgement.Besides, if the information in chapter "X" is widely known and available elsewhere, there's less point in keeping it around.

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 08:53:53 am
content: Finally some opinions on thecontent! Just ordered my copy based on your review. Thanks!

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 09:54:02 am
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on April 07, 2015, 08:53:53 amOoops... That sudden feeling of responsibility, like a noose around my neck. Hopefully the physical distance will protect me from being tarred and feathered...All joking aside, I do think that it is a fine book. Hope you will enjoy it!

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 10:09:06 am
content: Quote from: Blofeld on April 07, 2015, 09:54:02 amI'm sure I will! I've been pondering about getting one since the news about it's arrival. If I somehow end up hating it (though I don't think it will happen) I won't blame you, of courseCan't wait to get my hands on the Bible.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 05:36:25 pm
content: I wonder how many of those who have the 3rd edition, already had their "What do they mean, we'll treat these effects in Chapter 1x ??" moment. I guess if one starts with one of the chapters on digital electronics, one can spend a lot of time before reaching a reference to one of the x-Chapters.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 09:02:45 pm
content: The review that Winfield Hill writes about his own book on Amazon might be interesting:"Full disclosure: I'm co-author of this book, and couldn't resist Amazon's invitation: "Be the first to review this book." After some other reviews are up, I'll come back and remove it.Our book is especially well suited for working circuit-design engineers. It has thorough discussions of relevant principles, which it then illustrates with circuits that include actual viable component values. It's not so much that one is expected to use those values when designing a similar circuit, but it's helpful to have a set of values to analyze and guide our thoughts. We continually advise to carefully check datasheets and evaluate alternate components. Much of electronics circuit engineering involves finding and understanding various available components, and then figuring out how they can be used to solve our problems. The book is filled with tables of "selected" parts to consider. If some of these parts become discontinued, or are too expensive, etc., it's still useful to see what a manufacturer could make and evaluate its specs, to understand what to reasonably look for as an alternate part. There are dozens of comparative graphs, which plot the same parameter for many different parts, so we can compare their performance, without having to examine dozens of datasheet plots. For example, the distortion curves vs frequency for 55 different opamps are plotted. You can pencil in your own favorite opamp for comparison.The book is filled with helpful information of how to connect the analog world to digital devices. An entire 90-page chapter is dedicated to "Logic Interfacing" techniques and components. This is valuable, because most of the real world does not run on 3.3 volts. Controllers get special attention. For example, three full-page diagrams, with five pages of discussion, details 60 different types of powerful ICs, intended to increase the capabilities of a microprocessor. It's inspiring just to study the drawings. The "Digital meets Analog" chapter runs 110 pages and is filled with detailed discussions about what looks like hundreds of different types of ADCs."

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2015, 03:31:01 pm
content: Winfield Hill wrote this 1 day ago on sci.electronics.design:"AoE 3rd edition, is shipping from Amazon, I got two copies Sunday (delivered bythe USPS). We're eager to hear about errors and typos, so we can putcorrections in the next printing, which will go to the presses next week. We'llkeep making corrections in subsequent printings, until the book is perfect. :-)So far we have received four errors serious enough to make our errata list.www.artofelectronics.net/errata/The first person to find an error gets theirname up for credit (that's an error, we're not clogging the errata list withtypos, too many!). "https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/1WoLXiSAdQc/RhNQGusZjEwJSo in theory, if you haven't ordered it yet, you could wait some more time and get a printing with a few errors removed. But I really wouldn't do this.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2015, 03:43:32 pm
content: Winfield Hill: 2nd printing (with error corrections) is about to start:"The errors are beginning to stream in now, see our errata page,http://artofelectronics.net/errata/The 1st printing of 15kbooks has, or is, running out. Yesterday our editor forwardeda set of corrections to apply before the 2nd printing. If anymore come in today, maybe they can be squeezed under the wire. "https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.design/1WoLXiSAdQc/-AtulIDWdKEJ

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 06:46:16 am
content: I had forgot about that capacitor guide. it will be missed from the third edition.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 07:15:55 am
content: Quote from: Kohanbash on April 12, 2015, 06:46:16 amIt might re-appear in the "x-Chapters" book. In section 1.4.1 Capacitors they write (p. 20): "Each of these types has unique properties; for a brief run-down, see the section on capacitors in Chapter 1.x"Officially the x-Chapters were meant for some advanced material in analog electronics. But an overview of capacitor types isn't very advanced. I guess there were a few places where they ran out of time or space, and then they moved the stuff to the x-Chapters, advanced or not.

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 07:50:35 pm
content: I used to have a copy of that figure hanging up over my workbench. I will need to get a copy of that chart and put it in the 3rd edition that I just got (my second edition got destroyed when a ceiling collapsed on it).

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 07:39:55 am
content: Hey @Blofeld, just wanted to let you know that I've just finished the first chapter and I love it! It has taught me much more than any other resource (teacher included) on the subject.I thank the gods that they did not go for the classical water analogy which to me raises more questions (because the analogy does not work) than it answers.I never knew V = energy/charge and A = charge/time. I've intuitively known it I think, but those water levels and water pressures has clouded my intuition for years. Thank you for nudging me over the 'edge' and get this book! It's already worth it's weight in gold to me.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 06:58:38 pm
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on April 23, 2015, 07:39:55 amGlad to hear you like the book. I think the first chapter is not the easiest one for beginners. If you got through it, you already must have some decent knowledge of electronics (and mathematics). The following chapters are actually more easy on the math.Regarding the water analogy, I think it is quite nice for absolute beginners, but has it's limits. I remember it was used in the instructions book from a little electronics lab that I had as a kid. It made it easy to understand simple transistor circuits (the only active components in that lab). Later I got a bigger lab with an Op Amp (think it was the LM324) and I really couldn't understand the explanations - it didn't quite work with the water analogy I had in my mind.

author: kc2skg
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 03:31:35 pm
content: I was on the fence about purchasing the 3rd edition when it came out given the price. But your candid review made up my mind to purchase. Thanks for the review!

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 06:31:59 pm
content: As a confirmed mathophobe, I can't believe I'm saying this, but my big complaint with the 2nd edition was not enough math and formulas. I probably can't afford the 3rd, but does it do a better job with the math behind the circuits?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 06:57:47 pm
content: Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on February 28, 2017, 06:31:59 pmThe book is about the lore of circuits rather than the law of circuits.The mathematics laws are relatively easy to find in many sources, but typically they don't describe the practical limits of circuits nor the relative merits of different circuits. OTOH, TAoE is invaluable because it concentrates on the folklore of which components and circuits work well and reliably; in effect it reduces the "search space" when you are trying to design a circuit.Hence I wouldn't buy TAoE for the maths.FWIW, I bought the first edition, skipped the second, and have bought the third.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 09:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on February 28, 2017, 06:31:59 pmWhy do you need more math than what is in TAoE ?What is interesting in this book is the know-how that you do not find in other books.Very often, electronics College books are plagued with lots of mathematical technicalities which onlypurpose is to be able to select students with a very technical problem thathas little to do with their practical ability to design a circuit.Dont misunderstand me, I am quite knowledgeable in math, but do not want mathematicaldetails to hide the physics of a problem.

author: emax
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 06:51:53 pm
content: Though this thread is a bit old, I'd like to express my appreciation for this book.I more or less stumbled over it by chance when I was browsing the web for some good books as an attempt to get a bit further in electronics. As being a software-engineer my background is more digital. Unfortunately I am a bit agnostic if it comes to analog stuff.So I first bought a few books written in my native language. They are very much like many things are in Germany: precise and quite profound - but bone-dry and free of any humor. It's a hard piece of work to read and to understand them, at least the 'usual' books like Tietze/Schenk/Gamm et.al.This does by no means mean that they are bad. But (for me) it's just not fun to read them.With that experience I was always a bit reluctant to buy a book about electronics which was written in english. My assumption was that a complicated matter which is even difficult to understand in german can never be easier to understand when written in english.But finally, I gave TAoE a try. And now I am so happy I did.To make electronic-books comparable (at least a little bit), my standard "test"-reading is about tansistors since this gives me an impression of how good I can grasp the style of the particular book. And TAoE was a pleasure to read. Actually, it was really fun. I would not have expected this.I have owned this book for a little over two weeks now. And whatever I looked up so far was explained very well & vivid. In some cases, when I overdid a bit with a topic (due to my lack of skills), it still was encouraging to read ahead and to put the "missing links" on the stack to look them up later.A great experience, thank you so much!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 07:37:48 pm
content: I thought TAoE had a goal of reducing the math. Not to worry, there are plenty of books filled with math. Pick up any text on Field Theory (Maxwell's Equations) and that should keep you going for a bit. just 4 little equations all on a par with Einstein's Equations. They may appear simple but we're still trying to understand them.This should get you started:https://www.alibris.com/Field-Theory-Concepts-Electromagnetic-Fields-Maxwells-Equations-Grad-Curl-DIV-Etc-Finite-Element-Method-Finite-Difference-Method-Charge-Simulation-Method-Monte-Carlo-Method-Adolf-J-Schwab/book/2299224Control Systems is another area for math majors. You will have Laplace Transforms in your nightmares.Then there is Signal Processing - a course designed specifically for math majors. Plenty of sin(wt), series expansions and Heaviside Step Functions. Lots of math in this course. In fact, it is ALL math.Since EEs make a boatload of money and math majors maybe not so much, I have always wondered why math majors don't redeclare their major. EE is really ALL applied math.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 07:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: JacquesBBB on February 28, 2017, 09:40:08 pmNor should 'rules of thumb' become an engineering 'best practice'. Shown or not, underlying all of the folklore is a ton of math that somebody worked out. It may be glossed over but math is still what makes electronics work.I only wish I was better at math. I struggled more than excelled - it was an uphill battle.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 08:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on November 21, 2017, 07:55:37 pmThe maths also gives the limits of applicability of the rules of thumb.Rule of thumb number 0 is always "Think, and use rules of thumb wisely".https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/all-aboard-/4424571/Rules-of-Thumb--0--Using-Rules-of-Thumb-Wisely

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 09:20:45 pm
content: 'Foundations of Analog and Digital Electronic Circuits' by Anant Agarwal and Jeffrey Lang is pretty Math-heavy if you are looking for that.(These are the guys that teach the MIT 6.002 course that is part of their OpenCourseware program)Edit: spelling

author: cepwin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 12:40:41 am
content: I've been looking at this....I can get the hard copy for $54 on amazon or the kindle edition for $80. Thoughts?