T568A or T568B Wiring?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 06:11:33 pm
content: Hello!I moved to a new house and I want/need to make a wired network. I managed to remove old RG59 from the conduits inside the walls and I want to wire with utp cat6.Now same old question: T568A or T568B Wiring? I always used T568B without a precise reason.Thanks in advance!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 06:47:31 pm
content: Makes little difference, providing you keep all the wiring to the same standard. Most of the times I use the B version, simply because I also can easily remember the colour coding for the plugs easier. with modern auto negotiating and auto correcting Ethernet interfaces it will work regardless, just so long as you do not split pairs, they will figure it out themselves.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 11:50:00 pm
content: The only difference between the two schemes is the colour coding used, they both achieve the same practical effect in terms of end-to-end connectivity. So, as long as you are consistent and use only one scheme on the same premises, it is just a matter of taste.

author: Bratster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 09:25:21 am
content: Use 568b. That's what almost every single patch cord out there is.568a is mainly used for telephone stuff.Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 10:47:42 am
content: It makes exactly zero difference which standard you use, as long as you remain consistent throughout.Most sockets and patch panels will be labelled for both but there are some kicking around with one or the other. It also doesn't matter which standard the patch cables use as straight through is "straight through". The sockets and patch panel doesn't care if the patch leads use a different standard. You can mix 568-B structured cabling with 568-A patch leads because Pin 1 is Pin 1, is Pin 1 etc...The only times it matters is if you are making a cross-over cable, for those, it's A on one end and B on the otherJust pay attention to the type of cabling you use and how you install it, those two things are far more important. I recommend Cat 6. It's fine for up to 10Gbit over short distances (like in a residential environment). If it's a permanent installation (i.e.: you're running it inside walls), go with solid copper as opposed to stranded. Forget Cat 5 or 5e.Just stick with UTP (Unshielded Twisted Pair) cable, no need to go STP (shielded) unless you have money to burn and know exactly what you're doing (it's expensive and youdon'tground both ends!).Avoid running Ethernet cable anywhere near power cable but if you absolutely have to for whatever reason, run it 90-degrees from each other. Do not run Ethernet parallel with power! It's not dangerous but you it can cause major problems with signal integrity.Avoid tight bends and kinks (especially with solid core cabling), you'll break it and cause yourself headaches trying to trace cable faults.Finally, clearly label both ends of the cable when you run it and leave yourself plenty of slack curled up in the roof (you might just need it!). Keep a record of which cable goes where so when it comes time to terminate it to a patch panel, you're not left guessing or relying on memory.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 11:14:00 am
content: Thanks for all the answers!Quote from: Halcyon on December 08, 2017, 10:47:42 amI bought furukawa cat 6 cable. I can't remember the last time I used 5e.Quote from: Halcyon on December 08, 2017, 10:47:42 amI think UTP is good enough for my needs. STP is too thick to run along the conduits.Quote from: Halcyon on December 08, 2017, 10:47:42 amUtp shares the conduit with shielded telephone pair. I didn't understand completely "run it 90-degrees from each other". Could you please explain a little bit more?Quote from: Halcyon on December 08, 2017, 10:47:42 amIt's still fresh in my mind how I struggled to remove old RG59Quote from: Halcyon on December 08, 2017, 10:47:42 amI didn't make a decision yet about how I'm going to finish the utp ends. If I'm going to use some kind of patch panel and buy the keystones or if I will use a male plug directly to the routers. Everything will be labeled.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 12:09:06 pm
content: I do not see any advantage to using cat6 over cat5 in a residential environment. If you have the CAT6 cable, use it, but if you need to buy it will be more expensive and not give you any advantage over cat5 in a residential situation. But that is just me.Using patch panels in a residential situation also does not make a lot of sense; usually you install the cabling you need and do not cater for lots of not-yet-used expansion and the infrastructure will not change a lot so why would you use expensive patch panels? Just pressing male UTP connectors at each (labeled) cable end is by far the cheapest option. If you decide to go for patch panels Panduit sells a nice system that is basically an empty metal frame (12x, 24x, 36x) in which you click in RJ45 female connectors. This system can grow with your installation. Still not cheap though.I would invest in a network with a couple of 'smart' switches (like Netgear GS108T or GS110T). These relatively cheap switches can be configured to run multiple vlans on the same device and over the same cable. Always handy if you want to route a TV network or a DMZ to anywhere in your house without laying extra cabling.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 01:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: woody on December 09, 2017, 12:09:06 pmI've found a cheap 4 port plastic case from Panduit. Three RJ45 female connectors are more expensive. I would need 2 cases with 3 ports per floor. Distribution boxes / Patch panels are inside hallway closets.Quote from: woody on December 09, 2017, 12:09:06 pmNew house has 3 floors and internet cable gets inside from the roof. So I will buy a second wifi router like (ASUS N66U) I already have one to connect to cablemodem in the 3er floor. Every floor will have it's own wifi router with 2 wired ports each. I need only one wired port in the first floor. I will consider 3rd router if wifi is too poor there.

author: dk_wiking
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 03:30:28 pm
content: Take a look at ebay there are some cheap patch panels like this one. I did substitute an old 48 port patch panel with the one shown in this linkhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Port-Rj45-Cat5e-Mini-Ethernet-Network-Patch-Panel-Rack-Wall-Mount-Bracket/322836860864?hash=item4b2a938fc0:g:fcEAAOSwEOpZ6DxwI do run 568A. But that is due to the old patch panel was 568A. And when installing the new one I did not want to spend time changing it. The new one has coloring codes on the back for both 568A and 568B.As a bonus info I am running 568B patch cables - they are the standard in the local stores :-)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 03:20:12 am
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on December 09, 2017, 11:14:00 amSharing with phone cabling is not an issue. I was talking about running communications cabling alongside power (110/240v mains).What I meant about running it 90 degrees, is if they absolutely must cross paths for whatever reason, don't run it parallel (see attached).Quote from: woody on December 09, 2017, 12:09:06 pmThe cost difference between Cat 5e and Cat 6 is small. If you're doing a permanent cable install, you might as well future proof it as much as possible within your budget. Cat 6 has several advantages over Cat 5e such as being able to handle wider bandwitdths and reduced cross-talk. Speed is also an issue, just because your LAN connection negotiates a 1Gbps link, doesn't mean that it will perform at that speed. Already in Australia (and we are far behind the rest of the world) you can get 1Gbps fibre internet in some areas.Quote from: woody on December 09, 2017, 12:09:06 pmOn the contrary, I think it makes perfect sense. Patch panels aren't expensive. You can pick up 24-port Cat 6 patch panels for under AUD$100. Again, if you're going to do a permanent install, do it properly. Don't cut corners. Where this becomes especially important is when you're using solid core cable. It's designed for installs where the cable won't be moved because it breaks far easier than stranded cabling. Using a patch panel will ensure none of your structured cabling moves (that's what patch leads are for), plus it looks far tidier.Additionally, if you're in a position where you can run cabling inside the wall, it's better go overboard and run cable where you think you might need it in the future. For example, I have at least 4 ethernet cables running to every bedroom (8 for rooms which can potentially be used for offices/study rooms). I have extra cables curled up in the ceiling for things like CCTV cameras, speakers, wireless access points etc...

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 11:21:38 am
content: QuoteIt obviously has to do with personal preference. My take? Running cabling in a finished house is a shit job. You therefore try to minimize the number of cables you have to run as much as possible. Neatly ending them in wall boxes with those nice little shutters and fancy labels is very expensive. Most of these expensive end points will be hidden by cabinets or be in the wrong place anyway. Use CAT6 cable if you must. But realize that components to actually make use of that cable is very expensive. Most things you connect to this infrastructure will negotiate 1Gbps and spend the rest of their days utilizing hardly any of it. Brand spanking new, multi-megapixel cameras negotiate 100Mbps. An HD TV stream takes 10Mbps. A phone conversation another 3 Mbps.It makes more sense to invest in a couple of well placed, industrial-grade wifi access points as the reality is that while your very expensive cabling infrastructure sits idling in the walls waiting to be patched the entire family is using tablets, phones, laptops and other equipment that does not even have a wired network interface. At least that is the case if I look around

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 12:21:05 pm
content: Hello.A little bit of economics:Cat6 is only a little bit more expensive than Cat5e here (~= U$S 1 per metre) . Both are expensive ones. Rj45 female jacks are also quite expensive (~= U$S 5.8 Panduit up to U$S 8.14 Furukawa each one). That's why I'm still thinking if I will use male plugs (a lot cheaper). Panduit 4 ports Patch Panel (~= U$S 5.20). So only one panel will be (~= U$S 28.4). A second ASUS N66U wifi router costs another U$S 186.If I have to explain these prices to you I would need to tell what happened here in the last 80 years.Best performance is achieved with wired ports for Netflix, Spotify and PS4. I have no doubts that a mixed environment (wired/wifi) is a must for phones, tablets, notebooks, firetv and small gadgets like raspberry pi and arduinos.Thanks again for your comments and suggestions

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 09:10:27 am
content: Quote from: woody on December 11, 2017, 11:21:38 amAgain, I disagree. I used to design networks for a living. There is a noticeable difference between a Cat 5 cable and a Cat 6 cable over longer runs even if both negotiate at 1 Gbps, cross-talk and noise can have a significant impact on throughput. If you're transferring large files over your network or access most of your data from a NAS, a properly performing 1 Gbps link is quite important. You want to make the most of that 1 gigabit link, why piss it away with sub-standard cabling? I have to admit, that even with "proper" commercial equipment, I'm starting to push the limits of what I can do on 1 Gbps at home.That being said, 10 gigabit Ethernet is now becoming very affordable for consumers. No longer do you need to spend thousands of dollars on a 10 Gbps NIC and switch.Yes, your comments regarding buying proper access points are very valid, however wireless shouldn't replace cable (if you have the choice of either). Don't forget, Wi-Fi is still only half-duplex, so take your negotiated link speed and halve it, then take a bit more off for good measure and you start to get around the level of actual throughput over a Wi-Fi link.It all comes down to what you want to achieve, the ease of installation and what your budget is. There is no "one size fits all" approach to networking.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 10:40:59 am
content: That's the thing though, if you're in a position to permanently cable your house relatively easily (and your budget allows for it), then Cat 6 should be the minimum standard you should be aiming for.After that, I'd be leaning more towards fibre or at least a mix of Cat 6 with 1 pair of fibre to each room, it at least gives you that element of flexibility.Blueskull, I think you've got the right idea.

author: dk_wiking
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 04:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 13, 2017, 09:10:27 amI do agree on your remarks in regards to WiFi.I do a lot of Data Center stuff in my job. A lot of Data Centers do not use 10GB copper. Instead they use 10GB Fiber which still is rather expensive for consumers. So why suggest the 10GB copper option?In practical terms. What do you consider as "longer runs" in regards to CAT5 and CAT 6?How do you measure the actual performance of the network. Do you use tools like iperf and whats your experience in regards to loss of performace when using CAT 5 instead of CAT 6. My results show an average of 940Mbit/s on a CAT 5 cabling (1Gbit/s) with cable runs of 20-25 meters.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 07:43:26 pm
content: Quote from: dk_wiking on December 13, 2017, 04:44:30 pmBecause in the consumer space, fibre is a very expensive option and most people don't have the gear to connect to it so it's another expense to upgrade devices. It'll remain this way for the foreseeable future.For the extra few cents per metre, you can roll out Cat 6 as opposed to Cat 5/5e and future-proof the installation. When (not if) 10 GigE becomes available in more consumer devices, people can just plug in and go essentially. It happened with 10 -> 100 Mbps and again at 100 -> 1000 Mbps.If you're rolling out a copper network, Cat 6 is really a "no brainer". Unless for some reason you have a very tight budget or have rolls of Cat 5e sitting around that you can use and costs you nothing.Quote from: dk_wiking on December 13, 2017, 04:44:30 pmWhen you start getting into 10's of metres, that's when you start seeing effects of noise, depending on the enviroment.Quote from: dk_wiking on December 13, 2017, 04:44:30 pmNetwork analysers usually, but you can do real-world tests just by using your favourite file copy utility. I'm not disputing your results, but you need to remember that in a consumer environment, the installation is probably going to be less-than-ideal when compared to commercial installs.In a residential home, you generally don't have the luxury of dedicated data conduits and cable trays, usually people want their Ethernet points near power so you're going to come across some mains power cabling.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 10:55:22 am
content: In addition to both my own anddk_wiking'scomments, I will say this, he isn't entirely wrong. In fact he isn't "wrong" at all.Cat 5e is still most suitable for your everyday, run of the mill consumer installation and it's unlikely that most people will notice a difference in many years to come. That being said, my comments and opinions stem from "do it once, do it properly" that has been drummed into me. Considering the cost of Cat 5e vs. Cat 6 is a matter of "cents per metre", you may as well.I didn't mean to dismiss what dk_wiking was saying because it really is valid as well.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 11:53:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 13, 2017, 07:43:26 pmI hope to get old in this house until my son gets independent. I think I will switch to cat 7 or fiber in the next 10 years or less if I'm still alive.Quote from: Halcyon on December 13, 2017, 07:43:26 pmThat's why I went for cat 6.Quote from: Halcyon on December 13, 2017, 07:43:26 pmLongest run was 25/30 mts from the 2nd floor down to the ground floor and back again to the 1st floor. (I didn't designed it that way) So I want to avoid all the noise as much I can.Quote from: Halcyon on December 13, 2017, 07:43:26 pmI was lucky to have a dedicated cable tv/ telephone conduit with an old rg59 that I could replace. Also I removed a short run of cat 5 that shared conduit with power cables in parallel.Now I have two cascading wifi routers in a LAN to LAN setup. I think I should go for LAN to WAN for better load balancing.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 12:24:09 pm
content: Hello!I forgot to tell. Finally I used this 4 ports mount box as a patch panel and it can be installed on top of any power box. (10 x 5 cm). Self crimping rj45 female connectors saved me a lot of time and effort.http://www1.panduit.com/en/product/NK4BXIW-AYhttp://www1.panduit.com/en/product/NK6TMIWNow I'm making a lot of patch cords to plug all the devices.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 07:27:44 am
content: As long as both ends uses the same wiring you are good to go. I default to 568B, but it is up to your own preference after all. Almost all modern gear supports auto-negotiation and auto-MDIX, so there is no point thinking about the crossover or straight through question, as the Ethernet ports will negotiate themselves into a useable optimal state.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 08:03:38 am
content: If I am not mistaken, cross-over is not allowed in the 1000Mb specification. It was in the 100Mb, but not in the 1000MbSo even though it may work due to auto, it is not allowed.Also, not all pairs have the same amount of twists per length. Orange has the most.The reason T568B is the more common variant is that it uses those two pairs with the most twists for the 100Mb variant.Not sure if that is still relevant for 1000Mb variant as it uses all 4 pairs.But I would default to the T568B

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 09:46:29 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on December 15, 2017, 08:03:38 amWho cares? Even the cheapest bog-standard consumer crap almost always supports Auto MDI-X. In the last 10 years, I can think of one obscure device that didn't but as long as you had a straight through cable, it didn't matter, it still worked. You can still have T568B patch cables with T568A sockets/structured cabling, it makes no difference, nothing is being "crossed over", it's all still "straight through".

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 09:59:11 am
content: Well, that was not the argument that I was making.Cross cables not being allowed is a different observation, separate on whether you use A or B, directed to the post immediately before. But yes, A cables in B sockets is fine, as long as they are both straight. I suspect the reason cross cables are no longer allowed in the specification may be because data may work, but POE would not.Anyway, the argument for B is not related to cross cables, but to the commonality of B, and maybe because of the fact orange and green have more twists then brown and blue.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 10:53:13 am
content: You can buy NEW 10gbps ethernet cards for 69$ today, and 5gbps ethernet cards (with the new 802.bz standard that allows 2.5gbps on cat5e and 5gbps on cat6/100m and 10gbps on cat6/~55m or cat6a/100m) are 59$ or less.You can also buy workstation motherboards and HEDT motherboards (threadripper, x399) with 10gbps onboard.So in a year or two, we may see the majority of motherboards come with 2.5gbps (to work on cat5e) or 5/ 10gbps ethernet cards or you may be able to buy access points that can connect using 2.5gbps or 5gbps to your switch/router.I'd say just install cat6 or cat6a cable, it's not that much more expensive compared to regular cat5e ethernet cable.10gbps ethernet card new : google for Aquantia AQN-107-104-SFA (or SHA for half height bracket) .. Replace 107 with 108 for the pci-e x1 1gbps/2.5gbps/5gbps ethernet card which is 10$ cheaper.