140 million liters of water down the drain - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 10:04:47 pm
content: Apparently they city of Portland, Oregon is draining 140 million liters of drinking water because a teenager is suspected of contaminating it with urine. To say nothing of the fact that this is an open air facility where animals and mother nature are free to do the same and even die in it.Oh and .5L of urine is about 3 parts per billion of Urea at this level of dilution.I suspect you receive several hundred times that dose just by flushing a public toilet.http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04/draining-reservoir-after-urination-incident-shows-tenuous-grasp-of-science/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29

author: Jarrod Roberson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 10:11:00 pm
content: Doesn't matter, the majority of the general public are science deniers and live on a "belief" based system, enough of these "believers" called and complained and the path of least resistance is giving in instead of attempting to explain the facts, which would mostly likely lead to some "official" getting a call from a campaign donor and nobody wants to lose their job. This part of the US is rampant with "holistic" medicine believers that believe that "water has memory".

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 11:28:32 pm
content: Give it to the farmers. They'll appreciate all the water with a trace of "fertilizer" added...

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 12:17:51 am
content: Pretty stupid I think, but it's not that big of a deal. This time of year in that area they have more water than they know what to do with. They already drain and clean it twice a year.What's weird is that, according to what I've read, it's actually some kind of holding tank, that's completely open, for water already treated and ready to be pumped into the public water system (with no further treatment!).David Shaff, Portland's water bureau administrator, said that the reservoir is not shut down for nature's transgressions. "If we did that, we'd be shutting it off all the time. We fish out animals or things that have blown in all the time." Really?

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 01:21:02 am
content: Quote from: rdl on April 21, 2014, 12:17:51 amhumans have been drinking surface water up until 50 years ago.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 01:43:06 am
content: Quote from: johansen on April 21, 2014, 01:21:02 amWells are way older than 50 years old, according to wiki since 5200 BC.But yeah, we still used river water then again it was usually boiled.Edit: also springs where used for drinking water, pretty much it was underground water that made it's way to the surface after serious filtration from the rocks.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 04:11:04 am
content: My final year at uni was spent living in a house where the water supply was direct from a stream. The sheep in the field couldn't be sold for meat as they were too radioactive after Chernobyl. It was tasty water, far better than the chemical crap I now have to put up with.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 05:16:30 am
content: If you have ever looked at what is in the piping used to deliver water you will add a filter. Asbestos piping ( common all over the world and still in use, just buried and forgotten about), rotting iron pipes, discarded stuff from when it was built, other assorted jetsam.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 05:29:48 am
content: The obvious solution is just to turn off the CCTV cameras.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 05:32:52 am
content: I'd bet there are several million people in the world that would love to have 140 million liters of water contaminated with nothing more than .5L of urine.Isn't that partly why water in most of the US is slightly chlorinated so that things like this don't matter?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 06:09:46 am
content: Exactly the same thing has happened at least once (and maybe several times?) before. The US federal government required the city to cover all those reservoirs years ago. But that is a blessing along with a curse. The major source of domestic water for Portland Oregon has been the Bull Run Watershed for way over 100 years. It is one of the best city water supplies on the planet.I sympathize with people in Southern California (my relatives, included) about their drought. We already ship them tera watts of power on the largest DC transmission line in North America. But I don't think we can ship our excess water that way. Until they can figure out some large-scale molecule transporter.Agreed it seems to be only public perception that has no basis in fact or science. But this wouldn't be the first example of the public being complete idiots. Maybe they can hire one of those magicians to come in and make it appear that the reservoir has drained and re-filled. We have far less than "normal" rainfall and snow-pack this season ourselves. They are already trying to figure out how they are going to allocate water this summer.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 06:32:17 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on April 21, 2014, 05:32:52 amYou bet they would. Unfortunately, distributing all that water would cost way more than filtering it from local sources.QuoteIn most cities, it's fluorinated with a few ug/L; helps convert the hydroxyapatite in tooth enamel into fluoroapatite, which is a bit more durable. Chlorine is usually what they dump in copious amounts into swimming pools.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 07:16:56 am
content: In India, it's not the urine that matter...http://www.all-about-india.com/Ganges-River-Pollution.html

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 08:37:39 am
content: They reckon that the water in London has been drunk three times before you get to drink it, keeping processed water in an open holding tank at ground level with no protection at all seems silly as any thing and every thing in the form of contamination can get in.The Ganges problem is such that it affects not just India but other parts of the world, in the 1970's cooked bones for dogs were being imported from India,then some one found their dog munching on a human bone, it turned out that the company in India was collecting the bone from the Ganges before cooking or drying them in the sun, the importation was stopped by the then Ministry of Agriculture on the grounds that it could bring foot and mouth into the country.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 09:59:45 am
content: Quote from: Jarrod Roberson on April 20, 2014, 10:11:00 pmAlso,TV shows don't help,where Jack Bauer,or someone similar stops a terrorist from dropping a tiny vial of poison or bacteria into an huge dam.Those materials are supposed to be capable of killing a lot of people,but the dilution is enormous,to say nothing of the hostile environment.Pee? --chuck a bag of chlorine in,& call it good!

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 10:36:07 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on April 21, 2014, 09:59:45 amMaybe it's a homoeopathic poison?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 11:17:27 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on April 21, 2014, 10:36:07 amLOL

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 11:59:21 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on April 21, 2014, 09:59:45 amHow about Stephen Hawking implying in a science documentary that a revolution in electricity distribution along the lines of Tesla's original plans is around the corner (along with screen shots of the Wardenclyffe tower and imaginings of electrons whizzing through the thin air from the power station right to your mains GPO) because some hack gizmo manufacturing company has demonstrated an inductive charger (apparently a revolutionary and brand new technology!) for a shitty mobile phone.Yes, really. I almost choked on my hot tomato, ham and cheese toasty.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 12:07:10 pm
content: Quote from: Jarrod Roberson on April 20, 2014, 10:11:00 pmBut strangely enough, they seem opposed to "homeopathicurine therapy".

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 01:09:50 pm
content: They will not flush the water if public doesn't know someone pee on it.I know some incident that involving a human hand accidentally grinded in some biscuit compound.and of course they dint spoil any food because additional nutrition

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 01:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on April 21, 2014, 06:09:46 amThe public are not generally complete idiots, they are generally ignorant.What is disgusting is the people who are paid not to be ignorant choose to support the public's ignorance rather than correct it.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 02:50:57 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on April 21, 2014, 10:36:07 amOr an actual biohazard? Bacteria reproduce incredibly fast, and urine doesn't. I wouldn't be happy drinking water contaminated with anthrax or Ebola.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 03:05:16 am
content: Quote from: scientist on April 21, 2014, 06:32:17 amDrinking water is chlorinated at the point of supply as a standard measure in treated water systems. You can smell the chlorine if you run fresh water from the tap/faucet at high velocity so it froths up.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 03:10:12 am
content: Quote from: IanB on April 22, 2014, 03:05:16 amwhy they didn't use O3? (ozone)

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 03:12:24 am
content: Oddly enough, that isn't so where I live. They only chlorinate the water if it's from a well, and mine isn't.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 03:40:35 am
content: Quote from: Rufus on April 21, 2014, 01:39:49 pmTrue, but unfortunately all too many transition into being idiots when confronted with the facts which do not persuade them.* Idiot is defined as sub-normal intelligence. So I'd say anyone who can't apply reason and facts to situations would fit nicely into that category.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 03:47:07 am
content: This is a typical analysis of a Sydney water supply (source only, pipes not included)https://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/groups/publicwebcontent/documents/document/zgrf/mdq0/~edisp/dd_044731.pdfand for a total wank:http://tapsydney.com.au/and for the full info:http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/eh52_aust_drinking_water_guidelines_update_131216.pdfPage 189 has chlorine.They even pump ferric chloride into the system (the stuff you use for PCB etching)Page 1161

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 04:06:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 22, 2014, 03:47:07 amFerric chloride is a flocculant, used to clarify water and to remove harmful impurities. Most of the added iron is removed downstream by filtration (which was its job when added), but even if not removed iron is an essential nutrient and is not particularly harmful in small amounts.When you get worried about water purity, you just have to watch your pet dog drinking out of a puddle on the ground and then consider how soft and feeble we humans have become...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 04:57:05 am
content: Here I knew the park manager at the local supply dam. You really do not want to know what is in the raw water, they would get worried when the cholera count was over 10 per litre of water. They also did not recommend drinking the raw water as well. He is a diving instructor as well, and would dive in the dam, but the water is so turbid that he used to give black diving classes there, at 10m depth you could not see a million candlepower torch unless you held it less than 50cm from your mask. There are at least a dozen outboard motors there that are marked with an approximate location, but which cannot be found unless you drain the whole dam. They did find the Hilux that went down the slipway though by accident, it was a little big and straight so was easy to find.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 05:57:58 am
content: Quote from: scientist on April 22, 2014, 02:50:57 amMost such bacteria are not at all happy away from a congenial host,like you,me,or an animal.Extreme dilution in water which contains natural & added chemicals which are noxious to them,is unlikely to promote rapid,(if any),growth.Chemicals like Chlorine are remarkably effective at killing bacteria----its mainly inside us where you can't use them (for fear of killing us),that we have a problem!

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 06:55:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 22, 2014, 03:47:07 amQuote from the Helsinki Waterworks website: (note they mention ferrous sulphate which to me sounds more plausible as feric chloride would likely eat into the metallic piping..."Drinking water production at thePitkäkoski and Vanhakaupunki plantsThe raw water from Lake Päijänne is treated at the water treatment plants in Pitkäkoski and Vanhakaupunki in order to obtain clean domestic water. The water treatment processes of the two water treatment plants are the same.First, the humus contained in the raw water is precipitated with ferrous sulphate, and the resulting precipitate is stirred and mixed in order to improve clarification. After this, the precipitate is separated from the water in settling tanks and sand filters.Any microbes in the water are killed with ozone, which also improves the odour and taste of the water. Then, carbon dioxide is added to the water. This increases the alkalinity of the water, thus reducing corrosion.The remaining organic matter is removed by means of activated carbon filtration, after which the water is disinfected with UV light. Finally, bound chlorine, i.e., chloramine, is added to the water in order to limit microbial growth in the distribution network. The pH of the water is adjusted with lime water, and the alkalinity is regulated with carbon dioxide."Recent water quality analysis - sorry, in Finnish but anyone with a any chemistry knowledge will easily identify elements from their periodic table lettercodes.http://www.hsy.fi/vesi/juomavesi/vedenlaatu/Sivut/vedenlaatutaulukko.aspx

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 08:54:10 am
content: Ferric chloride is not added in any concentrations that would corrode piping. Also just enough is added to cause the precipitation reaction and it gets removed with the precipitate, so it doesn't stay in the water after it's added. Ferric chloride works a little more efficiently as a clarifying agent than ferrous sulphate but they both perform essentially the same function.I'm confused about carbon dioxide "increasing the alkalinity" of the water. Is this a mis-translation? Carbon dioxide is an acid gas and will decrease alkalinity/increase acidity. I think perhaps they increase the pH with lime water and decrease the pH with CO2. That would give them control in both directions and would fit the chemistry better.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 09:31:44 am
content: Why is it called drinking water, btw?Isn't it the water that would come out of the faucets?Or are there separate faucets for drinking in Portland?

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 10:38:08 am
content: Quote from: IanB on April 22, 2014, 08:54:10 amFair enough, just my gut feling - it is true that it would be quite a soup if FeCl was aded in PCB etching concentrationsAs to carbon dioxide - no mistranslation, the same wording can be found on the original Finnish page. In fact the case is not that simple. Some dissolved CO2in water turns partly into carbonic acid H2CO3and from there it dissociates at least partially into ionic forms HCO3-(the bicarbonate ion) and CO32-(carbonate ion) the proportions depending on the original pH of the water. The bicarbonate ion at least is an amphoteric compound that can act either as an acid or a base, depending on the acidity of the original solution. So i think they knew what they were writing. At the same time there is a diagram of the process here:http://www.hsy.fi/vesi/Documents/Juomavesi_ja_veden_laatu/Vedenpuhdistusprosessi_HSY.pdfdescribing how they add CO2("Hiilidioksidi") and lime water ("Kalkkivesi") as the last stages of the treatment, in that order.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 10:49:36 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on April 20, 2014, 11:28:32 pmYeah, fertilizer Plus drowning cows

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 10:52:04 am
content: Much better to filter it all. If that's not possible drain it away I DONT DRINK PEE.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 11:32:10 am
content: Quote from: electrolux on April 22, 2014, 10:52:04 amUrea molecules at 3 parts per billion might be tough to filter.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 11:44:46 am
content: Quote from: electrolux on April 22, 2014, 10:52:04 amSo you think. You'd be surprised what you drink. And you eat poop as well. But maybe you didn't want to know that.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 11:46:28 am
content: Quote from: electrolux on April 22, 2014, 10:52:04 amYou drank your own pee in your mothers womb. Since then you drank an average of a 1l a year.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 07:28:09 am
content: What do they think public swimming pool water contains?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 07:46:40 am
content: Thread necro by mod.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 07:55:14 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on August 21, 2020, 07:46:40 amIt popped back up due to a spammer (who is now banned and had his post deleted).I'll wear it though. Sorry guys!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 08:27:09 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 22, 2014, 03:40:35 amMost people are dopes.Consider the case where there are two streets to the left of a road, one just after after the other as Driver A is travelling along a road. We will call the streets on the left First Street (nearer the car) and Second Street (the next street further away). Now, Driver A wants to turn left into Second Street, but he signals left too early, prior to First Street. Now Driver B who is in First Street and wants to exit First Street, sees Driver A's signal to turn left, so he proceeds. BANG! A collision has occurred. The cause is twofold: Driver A lacks the intelligence to understand his ambiguity in his signalling can cause a car crash; and Driver B lacks the wisdom to realise indicators are not to be trusted.A good example intersection is here (corner of Ricketts Road and Blackburn Road, where Driver A is heading North on Blackburn Road intending to turn left onto the Monash Freeway and Driver B is turning left from Ricketts Road onto Blackburn Road). I have observed about eight out of ten people are Driver A's. There are typically a few accidents there every week to to the stupidity of drivers mentioned above, as I observed due to working in a building nearby.https://www.google.com/maps/search/google+maps/@-37.895357,145.1417133,900m/data=!3m1!1e3For our American and EU friends, we drive on the left side of the road in Australia, so change "left" to "right" in the above description.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 09:56:49 am
content: Piss works great as fertilizer, btw. And pissing in a bucket saves like 50% of total water.Started pissing in a bucket and "watering" my outside plants early this year. My lemon tree looks nicer that ever before now.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 11:18:35 am
content: Quote from: han on April 22, 2014, 03:10:12 amA few places do, for initial decontamination. Ozone is so reactive that a few seconds after you add it, it's all used up. Adding chlorine is to protect the water while it is in the distribution system and to allow for it sitting in cold water tanks in people's lofts and so on.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 12:36:59 pm
content: (The Vikings?) primitive peoples used to use animal urine for washing battle wounds - somehow they realized before germs were even known to science that it is usually sterile of germs (unless somebody has a UTI) At least much more so than stream or lake or even puddle water which anybody who has microscope will realize is absolutelyteemingwith microorganisms.Quote from: Stonent on April 21, 2014, 05:32:52 am

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 03:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on August 21, 2020, 12:36:59 pmUrine isnotsterile. Take your pick of popular or scholarly sources:http://www.urotoday.com/conference-highlights/aua-2019-annual-meeting/aua-2019-infections-inflammation/112448-aua-2019-urine-is-not-sterile-what-s-next.htmlhttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/turns-out-urine-isnt-actually-sterile-180954809/https://www.popsci.com/urine-sterile-drinking-pee/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3957746/https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gory-details/urine-not-sterile-and-neither-rest-you

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 04:42:53 pm
content: Quote from: MadTux on August 21, 2020, 09:56:49 amDoes it? Back when I had a lawn, I'd always see brown spots after a dog pissed on it.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 10:54:53 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 21, 2020, 04:42:53 pmMight be because of concentration and dogs diet. If dog drinks very little and eats lots of protein/meat, dog urine contains lots of nitrogen, perhaps so much that it's toxic to plants.Human with a little protein and more water/beer/coke input might have a more plant friendly piss, more dilute with less nitrogen and more phosphorous from coke.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2020, 11:22:44 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on April 21, 2014, 08:37:39 amOnly THREE? Do they not realise how long the earth has existed for? I'd say maybe 3billiontimes!

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 12:06:40 am
content: Urea is one of the most common nitrogen fertilizers; ammonium nitrate is a much more concentrated source of N, but less widely used for what should be obvious reasons. Perhaps surprising is that urea has very little smell and is white in color, not yellow. It is also commonly used to support bacterial or yeast fermentation, which is why urine doesn't stay germ-free for long. Indeed, fermentation of urine-soaked straw was the original source of nitrate for making gunpowder.There's always too much of a good thing, though, and concentrated urine can "burn" plants, just like commercial fertilizer if used at too strong a rate.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 12:51:30 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on April 21, 2014, 05:16:30 amMrs EEVblog is a former water quality scientist with Sydney Water. We filter all our drinking water

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 01:11:16 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 22, 2020, 12:06:40 amWorks surprisingly well as "organic weedkiller", if directly applied to the leaves and allowed to dry.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 01:12:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 22, 2020, 12:51:30 amDave, can you recommend a permanent installation filter type? We use "Brita" jug for 5 years, works well but something more permanent would be better I feel. Thanks!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 02:25:05 am
content: Response from Mrs EEVBlog after seeing that article: "That's ridiculous!"

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 02:36:58 am
content: I use 100% steam distilled water exclusively for drinking, tea, and rice cooking & when I make old fashioned chicken soup.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 02:39:12 am
content: Quote from: han on April 22, 2014, 03:10:12 amSome places do but it's more expensive and not as effective in killing all possible germs and the germ killing effect doesn't last as long. Somewhere I have the technical manuals for the O3 water treatment plant that's in (or was?) in Melbourne, Fla.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 03:52:34 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on August 22, 2020, 02:39:12 amNot an expert, but I think you are correct. I have worked on a couple of water treatment plant jobs in industrial automation for small towns.The Chlorine was added at a level such that 'at the end of the line' there will be a enough chlorine remaining in the water - called free available chlorine - to continue to kill bugs.'At the start of the line' the chlorine level is higher as not much of it has reacted with anything, so that is another limit. Back when I did this they were more concerned about killing goldfish with high chlorine doses than any health concerns.Ozone wouldn't have that effect.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 03:58:06 am
content: Quote from: eti on August 22, 2020, 01:12:12 amCan't remember the exact model, but something like this:https://purewatersystems.com.au/collections/reverse-osmosis-purification/products/4-stage-reverse-osmosis-under-sinkThis one without the tank is cheaper:https://purewatersystems.com.au/collections/under-sink-water-filtration-systems/products/twin-under-sink-water-filtration-systemHad ours for well over a decade.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 04:25:19 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 22, 2020, 03:58:06 amNice filter. I wonder what would happen if you placed a few in series. Would the water pressure even make it through?Would those % removal figures increase by and additive or multiplicative factor...With the price of the unit compared to the local price of distilled water, I would break even in 2 years. However, without knowing the price of new filter cartridges or how long they would last with my tap water, I cannot tell if it would be a winning or loosing proposition.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 04:51:06 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on August 22, 2020, 04:25:19 amPretty sure it's wouldn't work. It takes ages to refill the tank if you drain it, and we have pretty high water pressure.QuoteWe get someone in to replace them every year. IIRC it's about $100 a year for that.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 12:02:02 pm
content: A tale of two waters, which exemplifies the differences in the differences needed in water treatment depending on climate and raw water source:Water 1: 21 years ago, I was living just outside of Washington DC (in Silver Spring, MD, the original home of Pace Worldwide) and I decided to make a pitcher of Kool-Aid. So I mixed it up, took a sip, and dumped it all down the drain — the chlorine taste was unbearable. It literally tasted as though it'd been made with pool water. (I had forgotten that the chlorine would have dissipated had I left it uncovered overnight.) DC is basically built on former swamp land, so in the summer, I guess the raw water is not of optimal quality.Water 2: Here in Zurich, about 70% of the city water is pumped from the lake, while the remainder is a half spring water piped in from a nearby mountain range and half well water from within the city. Since Switzerland is at the top of Europe, altitude-wise, the water here is largely "virgin", needing relatively little treatment. (Amusingly, they use pools of live fish as "canaries" for early detection of water quality issues.) And I must say, the water here isexcellent— it tastes great, and even in the summer it comes out of the tap fairly cold. But Zurich actually has a backup water system, too, in case the main system becomes inoperable because of power failure or contamination of the lake! Remember the mountain spring water pipeline I mentioned before? It's purely gravity-fed and requires no filtration beyond a sand filter, ensuring a backup supply even without power. A separate network of 150km of pipes sends this water directly to critical consumers like hospitals, but also to over 400 fountains throughout the city, about 85 of which are special emergency fountains with hidden internal hydrants, guaranteeing 15 liters per person per day. During normal operation, they operate as normal water fountains that literally spout spring water for free. (If you're ever in ZH and see adrinking fountain that looks like a bronze R2D2, those are the emergency fountains.)

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2022, 09:33:11 pm
content: A third party reviewer on multiple water filters and their quality:

author: Jeff eelcr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 03:06:06 am
content: Do not tell them what fish do in it.Jeff

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 10:48:30 pm
content: I remember this from years ago, so I might not be entirely correct:Water from many cities.was taste tested by people. the water that consistently year to year that was voted the best was from Detroit and from New Orleans.Detroit water comes mostly from Lake Huron, In a big pipe from hundred miles away.Water from New Orleans is mostly "recycled" in that has been through numerous cities and their sanitation plants before it gets to New Orleans via the Mississippi. I think they also reprocess their sewage, but I am not sure about this.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 02:59:08 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 29, 2022, 09:33:11 pmI generally like his tests, but I found that one disappointing. Maybe it's a question of "how much you know" about subjects involved.The main problem is that TDS (total dissolved solids) is not a gauge of water quality. Different filters have different aims, but the common goals are to eliminate turbidity, volatile odors, microbiological contamination, and toxic elements. Measuring TDS doesn't tell you anything about these. For example, a filter that does nothing except remove sodium will show a great improvement in TDS while not improving water quality at all.The view inside the different filters is revealing, though. An RO filter is just a membrane folded and packed into a box; RO filters can be very good but they require multiple stages of prefilters because they get plugged with sediment easily, which increases cost. The carbon filters he cuts apart contain loose activated carbon granules: this design is a problem because loose granules get pushed around as water flows and open "channels" where very little filtering action can happen. Better filters impregnate the activated carbon with sticky resin so that everything stays as a solid block.