Beginner oscilloscope? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 10:46:11 pm
content: Been reading an electronics repair book and they mention analog scopes being more useful than digital. I have a PC based scope (owon) I’ve never really gotten along with and was wondering what you all recommend? Looking to start in electronics repair (hobby wise) and have no clue what to get to begin to learn on properly.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 11:57:48 pm
content: Budget ?Required features/specs ?

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:31:20 am
content: Really I’d like something with two or more channels and something I can grow with. Maybe under $300?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 01:17:58 am
content: Some arguments I've heard in the past for getting an analog scope are that having knobs for everything forces you to think about what you're doing, and you don't typically have an auto-set function to "cheat" with.However, any analog scope these days will most likely be an old, power-hungry, potentially flaky, brick.I think if you're trying to be cheap with the $300 price point, then probably keep using the Owon USB scope for now until you have a specific need for something different?

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 01:53:19 am
content: Looking to have proper equipment I can learn on and get comfortable with. I threw $300 out there as I saw a tektronix 220 unit for $200. What’s a proper budget? Money isn’t so much of an issue within reason of course.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:12:48 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 06, 2025, 12:31:20 amSDS802X HD is a real instrument offering potential for growth to professional model level capability and understanding.$340 less 6% with EEVblog members discount at Saelig.

author: LucSVK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:56:16 am
content: Hi,as a beginner myself I would look atSiglent SDS 800X HD seriesorRigol DSO800 seriesBut the Siglent looks better to me.

author: ebourg
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 07:06:59 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 05, 2025, 10:46:11 pmWhen was the book written?

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 07:16:29 am
content: Let’s not forget everything starts with knowledge, so please educate yourself on components, their functions and behavior under dc and ac and basics like law of ohm, Norton,…..Having a car doesn’t imply you know how to drive it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 07:31:59 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 05, 2025, 10:46:11 pmAbsolutely, 100%nottrue.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 08:14:05 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 05, 2025, 10:46:11 pmPerhaps you can tell us why you didn't really get along with the Owon USB Scope.Perhaps a recommendation can be derived from this insight.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 08:49:15 am
content: OP probably has the Owon VDS1022 relic, which works but the software is a bit tedious to slog through.There is a Rigol DHO1102 for $599 and free shipping in their clearance section:https://www.rigolna.com/clearance/

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 10:29:12 am
content: Quote from: J-R on January 06, 2025, 08:49:15 amAs the OP doesn't seem at all clear on what he needs (although it seems to be very basic), It's suggest downloading the florentbr S/W for the VDS1022...https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022and learning a few of the keyboard shortcuts.If it was me, I'd happily swap a bit of familiarization and practice against forking out $600 for something that also has a (probably more significant) learning curve.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:06:07 am
content: This much I know. I’m not BRAND new to oscilloscopes, I’m just not an expert. And as far as the actual hardware, I know not much about brands and features. Just because I can run a windows based PC does not mean I know of the hardware, software or brand names.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:06:43 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on January 06, 2025, 07:16:29 amThis much I know. I’m not BRAND new to oscilloscopes, I’m just not an expert. And as far as the actual hardware, I know not much about brands and features. Just because I can run a windows based PC does not mean I know of the hardware, software or brand names.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:09:22 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on January 06, 2025, 08:14:05 amIt’s an OWON VDS3102. What I don’t like is the software. I actually bought the scope for audio amplifier setups due to having a laptop. Really I’d like a bench setup. Just diving into using scopes for more than that and wanting to get familiar with the hardware, I figured putting down the money now, buying one and learning on that would be easier than fumbling with the software and then buying a decent scope where it’s got actual knobs and buttons.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 01:15:57 pm
content: It would be helpful to provide such information in your initial post as it changes the flavor (reads as beginner, just reading a repair book) of your question, and so, the responses you receive.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 01:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 06, 2025, 01:15:57 pmUnderstood, wasn’t upset at replies lol. I try to put as much information in as possible.What I’d like is something I can grow with while learning where I won’t have to upgrade again for a bit, if ever. However, most of the people here know how to future proof. I’ll be doing “simple” repairs. Computers, TV’s. Small handheld gadgets and toys. Normal consumer electronics.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:23:11 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 06, 2025, 11:09:22 amThe OWON VDS3102 looks like a very decent USB scope. (100MHz, 1GSa/s, 10M, 2mV/div).I would first try to get everything out of it.Whether buttons, knobs, touch screen, or mouse and select boxes: it's always about the same.Turning knobs is not that much fun, by the way.Otherwise buy a Siglent SDS 800X HD series or a Rigol DSO800 series.

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 03:47:08 pm
content: My suggestion is to get a 4ch scope. A few years back I bought a Siglent 4ch scope only because their web-based control was not available in the 2ch version that I thought was adequate for my needs. However, it turned out that many times I found myself using the four channels and I am really happy I have them. BTW, I wanted the web based control to have a big screen for eyesight reasons.I agree with Aldo22 that the Siglent SDS 800X HD series or a Rigol DSO800 series are great choices.Furthermore, I find it way more convenient to turn knobs then use typical PC based controls. Although touch screen might be a "touch" better, knobs are still my choice.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 04:55:59 pm
content: I'd recommend throwing another $109 at the problem and buying a Digilent Analog Discovery 3 Pro Bundle ($409) and wind up with a 2 channel power supply, 2 channel scope, 2 channel arbitrary waveform generator and 16 bit of digital IO.As a learning tool, I think it is truly unique.https://digilent.com/shop/products/mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/discovery-essentials/analog-discovery-3/You can download the software for free and experiment with a 'Demo' device to get some idea of the capability. Yes, it is another USB gadget but this one is on steroids.https://digilent.com/shop/out-of-the-box-solutions/Yes, the power supplies are limited as are the frequencies but they are more than adequate for learniing.I would epoxy the probes in the 10x position if I ever started working at higher voltages. In fact, I bought a pair of FIXED 10x probes from ProbeMaster. I would want to protect both the AD3 and my PC from higher voltages.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 05:07:00 pm
content: If you are serious about future proofing, here is recommended reading:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 06:54:11 pm
content: I'd get something with 4 channels. The price difference between 2/4 isn't worth getting 2.The hot 'scopes right now are Rigol DHO804 and Siglent SDS800X.Get a base model. Both can easily be converted to top-of-the-range models.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 08:48:37 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 06, 2025, 06:54:11 pmConverted? So it if I get the low end 4 channel in the siglent line I can make it the upper model?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 08:17:53 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 06, 2025, 08:48:37 pm"Hacked" is probably the more accurate term, but yes, you can increase the bandwidth relatively easily. It's not completely without risk.Quote from: rstofer on January 06, 2025, 04:55:59 pmThe AD3 is a slight improvement to the AD2, but you could save some money by going with an AD2 from eBay. They typically sell for under $200.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 08:32:13 am
content: Quote from: J-R on January 07, 2025, 08:17:53 amOne generates the unofficial official licenses and with SCPI commands implement them.The only risk is it either works or it don't......

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 09:37:34 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 06, 2025, 04:55:59 pmNeither a terrible recommendation, nor a terrible product. However, having looked into AD devices myself (the Digital Discovery, specifically), my own opinion is that they are a "jack of all trades" - they can do many things, only when you get into it, there are significant limitations to all. Probably fantastic as educational devices but personally, I'd buy a dedicated scope in preference.It's the "little" details that make differences in the long run. e.g. yes, there are digital capabilities, so you have a half-decent LA feature too if you want it, not just a software scope. However, input protection is very limited on the digital i/o ("5v tolerant" but designed for 3.3v max), whereas the LA section on my MSO is good for +-40v.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 11:14:57 am
content: So, after reading through this thread and taking recommendations for my own research, i think...I'm going to invest in the Siglent SDS814X HD. I also think it's time for a bench meter (i made a DMM housing/hanger/shroud in CAD and printed it for wall mounting which also holds my probes and alligator clips). My current setup works but is limited in terms of screen size and such so I think i may go with the Siglent SDM3055. Opinions?I think all else i'd need would be a power supply and I'd have a nice little bench setup to start with. Meters are my current (pun intended) weakness. I've got 5 currently.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 12:30:55 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 07, 2025, 11:14:57 amA lot of money.Why do you think you need an expensive DMM like this?I mean “to start with” as you say.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 12:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on January 07, 2025, 12:30:55 pmJust something i've wanted. I'm comfortable with meter functions and if i'm investing in the equipment i'd like to setup once and not have to purchase again for a while. Honestly, i've paid fairly close to that for my handheld meters on two separate occassions. When i get comfortable with equipment of any sort i don't like change, so i want to get once and get comfortable.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 01:49:45 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on January 07, 2025, 11:14:57 amThose are good scope and a good meter.You might even be happy enough with SDS804xHD if you can get it.Just saying..

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 02:12:52 pm
content: Quote

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 02:34:17 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 07, 2025, 01:49:45 pmI'm guessing he wants the better probes that come with the 814, but personally, I'd get the 804 and buy some probemaster.com probes with the extra $$$.

author: ebourg
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 05:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on January 07, 2025, 02:34:17 pmThe DHO804, DHO814 and DHO914 come with the same PVP3150 probes rated for 150MHz. The upgraded probes come with the DHO924 (PVP2350, 350MHz)Edit: Sorry I didn't realize it was about the Siglent probes, not the Rigole ones.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 07:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: ebourg on January 07, 2025, 05:50:08 pmI would not buy worse scope because of probes...And even the probes that come with SDS804xHD are good enough, BW vise.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 07:46:14 pm
content: The Rigol can be modified to ~300Mhz though...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 08:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 07, 2025, 07:46:14 pmAnd then is a complete mess...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 09:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 07, 2025, 08:03:15 pmIt's fine with one or two channels.It only takes a seconds to switch to a 300MHz model; maybe it'll help if think of it as a "turbo boost" mode for when you need that bit extra bandwidth.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 10:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 07, 2025, 09:44:56 pmEcho chamber....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 06:57:08 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 07, 2025, 10:49:19 pmIt's the truth.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 07:34:22 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 08, 2025, 06:57:08 amBut you are the only one advocating it. Not even much of an echo, just a lonely caller in the dark.Seriously though: Even if it is possible to perform a model change relatively quickly before using the scope, do you really want to- check your current scope model,- drag over the PC,- run your upgrade or downgrade script as needed,every time before you use the scope? In other discussions we are arguing about boot times and the inconvenience they cause...

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 08:08:26 am
content: For general starter scopes would it also be worth suggesting, not necessarily to the OP but just in general, ones with a decent amount of protection on the inputs and other safety features? A couple of times I've seen "here's a scope to play with" followed by "cool, lets see what the mains waveform looks like".

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 08:26:40 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on January 08, 2025, 08:08:26 amYup this ^^^Exactly why 12 years ago we selected a brand that provided 400V rated inputs.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 10:33:31 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on January 08, 2025, 08:08:26 amThat is why it is worth considering to buy a cheap oscilloscope on which the input part can be repaired (if necessary).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 11:03:20 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 08, 2025, 07:34:22 amI just double-click the "824" icon on my PC desktop and it changes to that a DHO824 in a few seconds. It doesn't even alter the vertical scale or timebase or anything like that.No "PC dragging" needed - I have WiFi (which is much easier to achieve than the Siglent).and, (b) The idea you have in your head that these scopes constantly show garbage on the screen simplyisn'ttrue. You're the ones living in a fantasy world.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 02:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on January 08, 2025, 10:33:31 amWhen playing with scopes and mains, most dangerous failure mode is not that voltage is too much for the input and it damages something on the input.Most common damage is people connecting grounded probe side to live wire directly and watching smoke come out the scope, with traces damaged.Or those that are "smart", using scope that is not grounded, doing same thing with probe and energizing chassis of anything connected with lethal voltages.Only way to safely poke around the mains is differential high voltage probes, or specialized scopes that have fully isolated channels....

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 03:07:33 pm
content: As we get to the failure like 1013D again, the input is not much, but it allows power supply from the battery, so that the problem of something being sent somewhere through the ground is eliminated - unless the user also connects a USB cable. The input circuits are simple so they can be repaired, even 10R resistors at the BNC are a good fuse. Moreover, for a beginner, easy to use, for a quick acquaintance with how an oscilloscope works. The price is acceptable during the sale. And when the user gains experience, he can buy something 4-channel for around 400E. 90% of the time I use 1013D, yes, when I last solved the linbus for the alternator, I pulled the 4-channel Siglent with linBus decoding, but I don't think a beginner will solve that, anyway I used the analyzer from 10E for linbus on the table.But I think that if you buy a proper oscilloscope now, it will last at least 10 years, if not more. And with a little attention, nothing will happen to it.