soldering.  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 11:45:16 am
content: Hi,Soldering components is somehow a good skill to learn especially when you are dealing with electronics, but unfortunately nobody explained me how thing works, as a result I always make bad soldering, because I probably lack knowledge and tools to actually make it good... Is there anything I can do to improve my skills and knowledge?Thanks.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 11:56:54 am
content: Hope this helps they are good videos.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 12:09:20 pm
content: Start here:

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 12:24:08 pm
content: Pretty but obsessive for general soldering in my opinion. He has several videos that you may find informative. I find thatKester - 44 RA Solder Wire, .031" dia., Sn63Pb37works well for me for through hole soldering. I don't recommend the 60/40 solder blends. A smaller diameter would be better for SMD parts.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 01:35:22 pm
content: How to improve your soldering? It's like, "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" Practice, practice and more practice.Get a bunch of cheap TH components like resisitors, capacitors and IC sockets and proto boards from eBay and solder away. Move on to basic through hole kits that do something and then move on to basic SMD kits from eBay. Don't forget to get flux and solder wick.Oh, yeah, watch the videos first.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 05:24:23 pm
content: I've made posts on this forum here suggesting some of the videos already posted here.Recently, I've written a long post on another forum to a beginner giving advice about soldering :https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/603395-what-type-of-solder-do-i-need-when-replacing-capacitors/#comment-7825195It also links to some of the videos already embedded here (the Pace videos are quite good, you should watch them even if they're old and may seem outdated).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 05:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on July 05, 2016, 05:24:23 pmThe tools and examples are indeed fairly outdated (although many still relevant - solder cups anyone?), but the fundamental techniques are valid all the way from 01005 to 2" pipe with a torch!

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2016, 10:36:32 pm
content: Well, so, my solders are crap because:1. I don't have the right tool (mains $5 soldering iron)2. I dont have the right tip on the soldering iron3. I've not the right solder (leadless)4. I used to solder putting the media on the tip5. I don't use fluxDefinitely, a mess.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 06:07:01 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 05, 2016, 10:36:32 pmRecognizing the problems are the first step in solving the issue, you're on your way to improving already.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 08:14:45 am
content: Let's talk about a soldering station. Is it better to buy a soldering station with only the iron or with also the hot air? Also hakko is not available in my country.On ebay at hand i see: YIHUA, W.E.P, lafayette, weller, what brand I should choose? May be better considering only hakko?

author: yakacm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 10:19:01 am
content: Be careful buying Hakko, there is a lot of counterfeit stuff around, especially if you are buying from eBay and seems cheap, as you say Hakko stuff is difficult to get hold of in Europe and there are a lot of hobbyists after the FX888d, so no one needs to sell them cheap, so if you do see them cheap, you should be suspicious. I just got mine from Maplin in the UK, it's possible they may ship to Italy (you are in Italia I believe?) RobSavvy list them on their website too, but they seem to have been on back order for a while now, I think they are in Germany, so maybe more likely to ship to you if Maplin don't.

author: McBryce
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 11:40:59 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 05, 2016, 10:36:32 pmYou probably do use flux, almost all solder has a flux / resin core inside.McBryce.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 12:11:02 pm
content: Yes, most solder has flux inside it these days, but it's in a limited amount, between 1% and 3%.The flux is designed in such a way that it turns liquid or somewhat liquid before the actual solder melts, and falls down on the area where you want to solder (the wire lead, pcb pad, whatever metal your tip is near) and attacks the surface removing oxides and preparing the surface for the actual surface.Especially if you have a cheap unregulated solder iron, or if you use too high temperature on the tip, when you're done using solder wire it can often happen that due to the high temperature some of the flux inside the solder wire that's left on the spool has poured out because it melted faster than the actual solder, let's say maybe a centimeter or so.That's why you'll see advice like you see in that Avionics soldering series of videos linked above , to cut a cm or so of solder from the beginning of the spool whenever you start soldering (to make sure there's flux right at the beginning), or to cut a small piece of solder from the spool and use that (so that when you work again with solder from the spool, there will be flux right at the beginning of the wire)Flux is seriously very important and really helps soldering, and if you look around you can find liquid flux relatively cheaply - I bought a tiny 50ml bottle of no-clean flux for something like 3$ from a local store in my country, big distributors sell 5-10ml flux pens for 5-10$ or something like that.A European distributor sells the same flux i use cheaply, from a couple of dollars + about 5$ shipping :http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/#search=topnik+flux&s_field=niski_prog&s_order=ASC&id_category=100484&visible_params=1677%2C2%2C1625%2C1682%2C909%2C849%2C436%2C1597%2C74&used_params=2%3A84346%3B909%3A6811%3B1677%3A10968%3BYou can then go to a pharmacy or a vet and buy a few syringes and needles and take a few ml from the bottle whenever you need to control the amount of flux you apply on boards or leads.Here, pharmacies sell syringes and needles no questions asked, but in other countries if there are some stupid laws (maybe they think you're drug addict), a vet shouldn't have problems giving you some needles that aren't suitable for humans (larger in diameter or something like that). But you can do without syringes, in worst case scenario you make a hole in the bottle cap with a regular needle and use some tape to close the cap when you're done.After flux, In order of importance I'd say the technique of soldering matters - you don't put solder on the tip and then bring it to surfaces unless you have separate flux to apply beforehand on the surfaces that will end up soldered (because putting the solder on the tip burns out the flux inside the solder).A tiny bit of solder to the tip is ok, to make transfer of temperature more efficient.If flux is used, there's whole soldering tehniques like "drag soldering" and others explained in the videos above, where you put flux on the tip and drag the tip over contacts and the solder is sucked on the metal contacts and solders the parts ... but again, separate flux is essential for this kind of soldering.Then you have the soldering wires, I explain in the link from my post above differences between some solders. I prefer 63/37 and then 60/40 . Lead free solder needs more temperature to melt and it's harder to visually determine if your soldering was proper when you're done, so with mains soldering irons it's harder to properly solder. Get a good quality solder with lead in it.So quality flux and quality solder are cheap and good investements that will last you long time. Buy them from an authorized distributor, not eBay or Chinese stores. Digikey, Newark , Mouser in US, Farnell or TME.eu in Europe , these are the big known sellers.As for soldering stations, see the suggestions I made here about cheap soldering stations you can get from eBay :https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/608140-good-solder-iron-under-60-cad/They're clones of old Hakko soldering station designs (like clones of Hakko 936) but that old design is so simple and cheap to reproduce, even these clones are decent enough, good value for the money.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 12:51:31 pm
content: You must have good equipment and good consumables, or you can't do a good soldering job. There are many good enough soldering irons/stations out there. The choice of tip size and temperature is more important than the brand name on the iron, as long as the iron isn't junk.For newbies, I'd recommend Kester 44 solder with "66 core" in either 63/37 or 60/40 (tin/lead). The 44 flux is rosin based, and is an RA (Rosin, Activated) type so it is relatively aggressive and cleans even rather heavily oxidized stuff, letting the solder wet and flow easily. Even though it is RA, it is also safe to leave the flux residue on the board. If you want to clean it, use simple IPA. The "66 core" means that the flux core is 66% of the width of the solder wire, amounting to about 3.3% by weight, the highest amount commonly available. That's about equal amounts of flux and solder. This leaves more residue than lesser cores, but when you are a newbie, you want the help from the extra flux. Other common core sizes are 50 (1.1%) and 58 (2.2%). The 50 core stuff is usually only used for no-clean applications where you can't or don't want to clean up the residue. Avoid it.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 01:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: yakacm on July 06, 2016, 10:19:01 amYou centered the point: This is exactly my concern. what if it's counterfeited? return shipping would be as much as the item price!. Maplin does not ship to Italy. It ships only in the UK/Ireland... RoboSavvy has it, but it's 120VAC. We have 230VAC, and I don't have an inverter...Also, I have read the forum on cheap soldering stations. They are not worth it. What about weller flux? Is that bad?http://www.weller-toolsus.com/dispensing/solvent-dispensers/weller-fd2-flux-dispenser-020-needle-fd2.htmlthis is the solder I have:http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Soldering-wire/p/sm/1043308299.htm#1043308299I've also found this:http://articulo.mercadolibre.cl/MLC-436340533-soldadura-super-solder-wire-60-_JM

author: gblades
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 01:28:47 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 06, 2016, 08:14:45 amPersonally I would go for separate units as you have a more varied choice.I have thehttp://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/zd-931-89-3106/soldering-station-esd-bs-plug/dp/SD01120soldering station. I think it is pretty good and it has very good thermal contact between the heater element and the tip. The downside of this is that changing tips is not easy when they are hot but given the cheap price of replacement irons you can just buy a 2nd and switch them over instead.I bought this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170941205406) hot air station which is a very budget one but it seems to do the job. I have played with it and managed to remove screens from old faulty mobile phones etc... so it seems to be powerful enough. The only thing I could not remove were some large BGA chips on a mobile phone board but looking at the ones I did remove they all had underfill which was more like glue.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 02:14:30 pm
content: Once you have some at least descent gear , then the practice part ,Start collecting all kinds of discarded circuit boards , through hole & SMD .Its cheaper to damage trash , then something you want to work when your done .Then when you think your doing ok , test yourself , get a working / cheap or free , motherboard and start removing / replacing the easiest parts , then see if it still worksThen try removing the balled processors , clean board and re-ball , not reflow and see if it still works .

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 02:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 06, 2016, 01:12:57 pmIf you're from Italy, just buy your Hakko gear from Batterfly. They are an Italian company and they sell genuine products:http://www.batterfly.com/shop/hakko_fx-888d

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 05:05:17 pm
content: Thanks.I've never heard of this shop, however, it seems quite interesting, considered that it has also a lot of instruments. Also, on this shop, I can buy the tips and the hot air station too.I guess with a genuine hakko you can't be wrong after all.Are all hakko tips interchangeable or you need a specific model?

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 05:18:24 pm
content: Hakko has a bunch of models and that means tips have to match the model .

author: Chalcogenide
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 05:30:58 pm
content: I bought a KAISI (but there are many rebadges) 936 soldering station and a BAKU 858D hot air station, both on eBay from Italy to avoid customs and endless waiting from China. For the price (<100€ for them plus a few extra tips and accessories), I can't complain. I also bought a second soldering iron for the 936A so that I can have a different tip ready to be used in seconds, without having to wait for the iron to cool down. Replacement tips are very cheap, but good enough if you don't solder every day, or have to deal with high thermal mass components.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 05:54:43 pm
content: One point I'd like to make on the solder. The 63/37 transitions directly from a liquid to a solid so there is less of a chance for a cold solder joint. While the 60/40 solder has a middle state that it transitions through. After I tried the 63/37 solder, I will never go back to the 60/40. It is so much easier to use. Also, don't get too big of a diameter, so you have more control over how much solder you're applying for small stuff.I wouldn't be in a big hurry to get a hot air machine. Like others have said, get the Hakko 888d, a few tips and start to practice practice practice.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 06:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: Chalcogenide on July 06, 2016, 05:30:58 pmI'll have to deal with high thermal mass components, since I'm planning to make some homemade psu as project. Not to mention I also have to add a switch to an usb audio card and the solder on the power connector won't melt...

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 07:02:33 pm
content: Until lately I used a 12€ 220V iron with an integrated thermostat in the handle. I must say it worked rather well, for through-hole and basic SMD.The only drawback is that it came with some weird kind of tips, of which I couldn't find replacement.So when chosing equipement consider the availability of compatible accessories.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 09:30:20 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 06, 2016, 06:39:39 pmYou will probably want to start with 3 basic tip styles:The T18-D12 is my general purpose goto tip.

author: Stuartambient
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 10:00:07 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 06, 2016, 09:30:20 pmCan I ask what the T18-K (in the pic) is used for? I have one and use it to cut braided sleevingThanks!

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 10:30:23 pm
content: See here:https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_k.htmlGood for soldering surface mounted devices, useful when soldering with solder paste (apply paste over all leads on one side of the chip and heat the leads with the blade) ... and you can see the examples on that page.You can check other tips from that drop down at the top of that page.

author: Stuartambient
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2016, 11:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on July 06, 2016, 10:30:23 pmThanks, sometimes I forget to use the search function.There was a site I referenced that left the blade tip out. Also if I remember correctly watching Dave's soldering video he may have stressed the chisel as the go to for just about anything. I'd have to go back and confirm but I think he felt the conical was even a bit of a waste.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 03:56:53 am
content: Quote from: Stuartambient on July 06, 2016, 11:54:37 pmI used to use conical, once I tried a chisel tip I never went back. It's night and day difference, chisel tip is the only way to go. If you need a smaller point, just turn it so the corner of the tip is what you're using to make contact.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 05:45:38 am
content: A bevel/hoof shape makes a good general purpose tip as well IME (preferably tinned on the face only).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 05:49:05 am
content: Quote from: Stuartambient on July 06, 2016, 10:00:07 pmVery good at removing SMD passives as you can heat both pads at once and either scrape them off or pick the component off with tweezers.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 06:28:14 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 07, 2016, 05:49:05 amI haven't seen it mentioned, but a knife shape is also good for welding plastic (i.e. form plastic pins into plastic rivets, edge welding, ...).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 07:17:05 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 07, 2016, 06:28:14 amYes, of course but a little OT don't you think.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 08:17:56 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 07, 2016, 06:28:14 amFor molting/modeling plastic I use a specific tool: dremel versatip 2000. It's more handy and it can cut all kind of plastics, even hardened ones!Also, I'm searching for the right solderm but multicore brand semms quite hard to find. Is Kester any good?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 07:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 07, 2016, 07:17:05 amGenerally speaking, I'd agree.I mentioned it however, as I ran into a couple of instances where that was how an item I was trying to fix was assembled.Quote from: R005T3r on July 07, 2016, 08:17:56 amIt's excellent stuff.I highly recommend Kester 44 (RA flux) in 63/37 for general purpose, as it works well on new and oxidized stuff. There are 3 different core sizes, and I'd suggest going with the largest, 66 (= 3.0 - 3.3% flux by weight). For diameter, I'd recommend .032" or .025" as it works well with both PTH & larger SMD (stuff easy to do by hand without much, or any magnification). Any smaller, and you run the risk of keeping heat on the joint too long due to the length of solder that has to be fed in. Too large, and you don't have decent control of how much solder is applied (get way too much).FWIW, I've Kester, Multicore, Alpha Metals (Cookson), and even some stuff from RadioShack (small spools of 62/36/2 silver bearing & some .062" 60/40 for tinning large gauge wire).Other quality brands would include AIM (American Iron & Metals) and Indium.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 08:42:47 pm
content: +1 here. I use the Kester 44, 63/37, .031" diameter solder all the time now.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 11:10:51 pm
content: +1 re solder with a little bit (2%) of silver, as I don't use much solder, it is my main solder, 0.5mm, I recall it is Multicore brand. I recall less 'whiskers' and flows nicely, minimal issues with Techtronix ceramic silver plated standoffs either.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 09:12:31 am
content: Alright. kester is a good brand.As Dave said, I'll probably go for 63/37 it's more modern and you can't go wrong. For the thickness I'll use 0.39mm or 0.51 Don't know which one...Also, what's the difference between RA, RMA, no clean solder? There's also a water-soluble type? Which one should I use?

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 10:55:25 am
content: ra = rosin activatedrma = rosin mild active (probably a bit weaker than ra?)These two depending on the concentration and composition sometimes leave a layer of brownish stuff after you finish soldering (the rosin) which can sometimes be somewhat conductive (or... well, let's say if you work with high voltages this left over flux could decrease the resistance between two wires and cause electric arcs). In general they don't need to be cleaned but they can be easily cleaned if neded with isopropyl alcohol or other electronic circuit safe solventsno clean = a flux different than ra or rma, that can be left on the board without having to clean it (it's usually not conductive, leaves minimal dust or other crap etc) ... it can be cleaned if you want with isopropyl alcohol or other substances but you don't have to. Don't know if it's stronger or weaker than RA or RMAStay away from water soluble fluxes, from what I heard (but I admit I'm not so experienced in this area) they're strong fluxes but HAVE to be cleaned from leads and boards after soldering and it's often hard to completely clean such fluxes if you're amateur and in time the fluxes can do damage.I use solder with no clean flux, in 2% concentration, bought a 500g spool a couple of years ago), it's Multicore 0.56mm 63/37 Type Crystal 502 , here's the exact link :http://www.digikey.com/short/344qdcI'm very happy with it. 0.56mm is just right for most soldering, 0.51mm would also work just fine..If you go with thicker stuff, it's harder to solder surface mount stuff.If you go lower at 0.39 mm or something like that, it may help you if you plan to do a lot of surface mount soldering, like soldering stuff that's lower than 0805 resistors or capacitors but when it comes to bigger stuff like large through hole capacitors or to-220 parts, you would find yourself having to feed a lot of solder wire into the area you want to solder so you don't get such fine control over the solder quantity and in addition, you would find the flux inside the solder often not being enough when you solder big things.Sure, a simple solution would be to cut two strands of solder wire from the spool and twist them together to get a thicker strand of solder wire but it's annoying to do this over and over again when you have to.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:55:51 pm
content: Thank you for the tipsWell, it's time to add something to my cart, just to estimate how much I'm going to spend. For now I'll buy:1. Kester-Solder 24-6337-0010 (RA solder)2. MG-Chemicals 835-P (RA flux)3. MG-Chemicals 4140-P (flux remover)4. SOLDER-WICK ROSIN .110" 5'Should I change something?

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:20:42 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 08, 2016, 12:55:51 pmI don't know that you need the flux remover. IPA works fine for that. I have the 70% wipes, and 91 and 99% bottles with make up removal pads. Like Nanofrog mentioned, .031 on the Kester solder is good all around. If you need thicker just twist some together.Mariush, you are correct, RMA is weaker than RA. I also use the MG Chemicals 835P. I have one of the cheep eBay squeeze bottles and a syringe for precise placement.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:56:04 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 08, 2016, 12:55:51 pmCheck prices. Kester seems to be popular in the North American region so it gets a lot of recommendations by US and Canadian users. But it is quite exotic in Europe. So be prepared to pay a hefty premium on their products over here, not because they are superior to other big brands but because they are only sold in small volumes. If you buy Multicore, Felder, Stannol or Interflux you may be able to save a lot of money...

author: gblades
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:57:05 pm
content: Any suggestions where to buy some solder in the UK. Digikey would be fine but I dont have anything else I need at the moment to get up to the £50.Places like CPC and Rapid Electronics sell the Warton solder in 63/37.The only <0.7mm stuff I could find washttps://www.rapidonline.com/warton-metals-omega-63-37-fast-flow-2-flux-solder-wire-24swg-0-559mm-500g-85-6156which is rosin free so not sure how that compares to RA/RMA etc...https://www.rapidonline.com/warton-metals-future-hf-63-37-fast-flow-2-flux-solder-wire-22swg-0-711mm-500g-85-6274is a no clean flux type so at least I know what I am getting but only 0.7mm.Has anyone had any experience with the Warton solder?The reason I ask is I am getting back into surface mount and I got out my spool of thin solder to find that the outside edge has oxidized and gone white so not ideal to use!

author: Stuartambient
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:58:08 pm
content: Some people just buy pine cone rosin and make their own flux. The advantage to that is you can mix multiple batches with varying consistencies depending on the work. Sometimes a thicker more paste like and some more liquid. I prefer thick flux and use this nowhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0195UJ9ZC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1It's rated for least corrosive. MG Chemicals are good though.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 02:21:12 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on July 08, 2016, 01:56:04 pmKester's solder is : 57 EurMulticore alternative is not available in that configuration. The most close product is: 30 Eur this one here:http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/soldering-desoldering-rework-products/solder/1310838?k=%20386851Moreover, the product is not RA but no clean (that's not a particular issue)

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 03:23:49 pm
content: Check your local suppliers and don't be stuck to just one configuration... Any big brand (and in the EU way more common) 60/40 alloy will make no practical difference to 63/37 in your soldering. Chose one with 2.5% ... 3% rosin core flux of the RMA type. The more aggressive RA is only needed if you solder old components with significant oxidation on their pads/leads. And for a starter I would recommend to go with something like ~0.7mm diameter, this is way more versatile than 0.5mm in my opinion. A 500g spool of really excellent Felder "EL" 0.7mm 60/40 solder wire will set me back ~14€, 50ml of Felder "RA" type flux (for oxidized parts) some ~3€ if I buy it here from a local supplier in Germany. There should be similar deals in Italy if you search around a bit. Just stay away from the cheap Chinese stuff they sell on eBay, Banggood and similar eMarket places...

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 03:44:24 pm
content: RS-Online is in UK and have Multicore solders in stock. They also have Stannol which is also a decent brand.Seehttp://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/tools/soldering-desoldering-tools/solders/?sra=p&r=t#esid=4294955739&applied-dimensions=4294663223,4294813999,4294814155,4294814197,4294847209,4294964825,4294965529&sort-by=P_breakPrice1&sort-order=asc(list of Multicore and Stannol branded solders on their site, from 0.25mm to 0.71mm diameter). Hit the arrow buttons under the column to sort by price if it's not already sorted.Not as wide selection as I would like but here's some suggestions:Multicore 0.5mm 62/36/2 (2% Silver) - as good as 63/37, still euctetic like 63/37 but the added silver makes it a bit more expensive (and good for surface mounted stuff that has silver on the terminations) :http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/4364869/Cheaper yet still good, still 62/36/2 : Stannol 0.5mm Wire Solder, +179°C Melting Point, 36% Lead, 62% Tin, 2% Silver, 250g ( 3.5% flux) :http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/0518040/If you want quantity or cheaper, look at the 60/40 varieties, there's some multicore solder at 17 uk pounds for 250g or around 30-35 uk pounds for 500g in the same list.TME.eu (Polish company) stocks Amtech and Alpha Metals solder, Amtech is ok solder if you can't find the more reputable Multicore, Kester, Stannol etc brands :http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/#id_category=112707&page=1&s_field=artykul&s_order=ASCYou can also buy decent liquid flux from them (I use the AG Thermoplasty flux they stock and it's good and cheap).Should be only a few UK pounds in shipping costs.

author: gblades
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 04:07:28 pm
content: Thanks.What about MBO?http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solders/0547372/62/36/2 0.7mm with 2.6% rosin flux. Seems a good universal spec.Or the one I mentioned earlier the Warton Futurehttps://www.rapidonline.com/warton-metals-future-hf-63-37-fast-flow-2-flux-solder-wire-22swg-0-711mm-500g-85-627464/36 0.7mm 2% no clean modified rosin flux

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 04:32:15 pm
content: Quote from: gblades on July 08, 2016, 01:57:05 pmIIRC, there's been a member or two that's used Warton and indicated it's decent stuff.As per the stuff you linked, it's activity is equivalent to RMA. BTW, the resin is actually modified rosin, as is the Multicore Crystal 502 flux (activity is also that of RMA).Here's something I found previously:Warton 63/37, 2% RA flux, 0.7mm diameter, 500gat CPCCynel and Broquetas are both European manufacturers that offer 63/37. IIRC, tme.eu offers these brands.Quote from: gblades on July 08, 2016, 01:57:05 pm1. You can try wiping the outside of the solder with a bit of paper towel that's been dampened with alcohol.2. Add some RA flux (or similar activity of no-clean) for the higher activity (cleans the solder, tabs, pads, ... to make a proper joint).Quote from: R005T3r on July 08, 2016, 02:21:12 pmYes.You can skip the flux cleaner, and use isopropanol (IPA), methanol, ethanol (i.e. denatured alcohol), or even make something a little stronger by mixing alcohol with either a little xylene or acetone (all of it should be available in a paint department or dedicated store).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 04:46:15 pm
content: Quote from: gblades on July 08, 2016, 04:07:28 pmLooking back at your list of tools earlier in the thread, when you upgrade to an even half decent soldering station the choice of a specific solder will be mostly insignificant to the difference a temp controlled station will make.Get what seems to be a good brand solder for now, focus next on a station then home in on a preferred solder by grabbing mini spools to try. Keep a little of each to compare against others and you will find whatyoulike best.Stick to leaded unless you need the grief that comes with the muck, but if you want to treat yourself get some with a little silver in the mix for those special jobs.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 04:50:40 pm
content: Well, that said. I'll skip the flux cleaner: if I can use IPA instead, not a major concern.I've also found some flutin: they are european, and the particularity of this kind of solder is that it's Sn60/Pb38/Cu2 2.2% solvent. They also have some 0.5 mm versions as well as 0.75 mm versions... Not sure if this is meant for electronics soldering or other applcations, but they are quite reasonable on a price point: it's around 50 Eur per Kg.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 04:56:28 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 08, 2016, 04:46:15 pmYeah, you made an interesting point. Mini spools are not that expensive and also you can have a variety of solder (just to try out and see some differences). Also, with the cheap soldering iron, why not try and see what's wrong with lead-free stuff... May be worth experimenting...

author: gblades
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:01:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 08, 2016, 04:46:15 pmI am not sure if you are confusing me with the original poster. I did post my equipment but my soldering station is temperature controlled so I am unsure whether you are referring to a different iron or if you think the station I have is inferior in some way?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: gblades on July 08, 2016, 05:01:20 pmI did, sorry.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 08, 2016, 04:56:28 pmForget lead free, without much soldering experience it'll drive you nuts.Put your old iron away or give it to some kid to get started with, take the plunge into any reasonable temp controlled station and discover what you've been missing. Before I got one ~10 yrs ago I just used a mains pencil iron and a light dimmer to tame/control it but when I got the rework station the old stuff was rapidly retired.A small selection of tips and you'll be away.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:33:49 pm
content: As for solder, if you haven't worked it out from my avatar, I only use leaded, don't care much what make or formulation, pretty much anything "works". The only new spool I ever purchased was a silver bearing leaded solder from RS ~20 years ago and that's saved for use on special occasions as it's a low temp model.Grabbed various part spools from swap meets for next to nothing and have enough assorted and unlabeled solders to see me out. However each has there own peculiarities and those with more active fluxes are very useful for old and dirty work. Unless you do only clean new work you'll want a small selection.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 05:56:03 pm
content: Ok, guys... I've just ordered a brand new genuine Hakko 888d station. Also took the points posted earlier in the thread.Meanwhile, let's speak about lead-free solder. What's wrong with it? I'm not understanding. Is it difficult to solder or it's not performing well?

author: gblades
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 06:16:08 pm
content: The only good thing about lead free solder is that it contains no lead. It has a higher melting temperature so more difficult to work with and more likely to damage components with excessive heat.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 06:23:34 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 08, 2016, 05:56:03 pmBoth.In simple terms for the uninitiated it doesn't "wet" as well, and requires higher temps that especially for the inexperienced can result in lifted pads on PCB's. Greater care need be used with it as to not expose componentry to elevated temps that can result in failures if careful temp profiles that are required for some parts are not followed.Manufacturing uses tuned profiles to ensure damage is not done but for the hobbyist hand soldering you can't guarantee to stay within max temps.The stuff is muck and unless you into production supplying ROHS demanding markets stick with leaded.Those that rework mostly prefer to use leaded even if the PCB was constructed with Pb free.I hate the crap.By all means get a small spool and find out for yourself.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 06:27:51 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 08, 2016, 05:56:03 pmIt's actually not that bad or difficult if you use good stuff. My recommendation for lead-free would be Felder Iso-Core "Clear" Sn100Ni+ (Sn99,3CuNiGe). This will get you as close to "leaded solder experience" as you probably could get with the lead free. But you need a really good soldering iron with excellent regulation and ultra-fast heat recovery, the likes of JBC's, Ersa i-con's or Metcals, to have any fun with it. Soldering temps are generally ~40K higher and it takes longer to make the joint because it doesn't flow as well as leaded solder, which of course puts additional stress on components and pads, especially in prototyping, where you often solder to a particular joint several times. The higher working temps also shorten the life of the tips as do the more aggressive fluxes used in the lead-free stuff. A lot of people also dislike the usually "dull" appearance of the joints, they are not as nice and shiny as the ones done with leaded solder. Though the Sn100Ni+ stuff is pretty good in this respect, almost as shiny as leaded ones. If you're used to leaded solder chances are you won't like the lead free... But a small spool is not that expensive and I would recommend anyone to try it out, at least once, it's a nice experience

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 10:39:16 pm
content: As for soldering, I think this explains it well enough, at least when it comes to PTH.https://mightyohm.com/files/soldercomic/FullSolderComic_EN.pdf

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 02:57:26 am
content: Quote from: Augustus on July 08, 2016, 06:27:51 pmI bought a spool of AIM SN100C Glow Core 2.5% lead free because of a part time gig that didn't pan out. I updated the alligator clips on my Der EE DE-5000 as found in another thread and saw that lead free solder was used. I used mine and got almost instant wetting using extra flux and a 850 series tip in my Metcal MX-500. You will need a really good iron with the ability to dump lots of heat quickly to avoid damage. Another point is that you want separate tips for lead and lead-free so as to avoid contamination that could lead to premature failure of the joint.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 03:46:46 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on July 09, 2016, 02:57:26 amIdeally, yes.Unfortunately, this may not be feasible due to cost constraints.So if separate tips aren't feasible, rinsing would be the next best alternative (better than not doing anything).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 03:52:28 am
content: While I admire those of you that use that Pb free muck, I ask why bother.Manufacturing sure, hobbyist use is it really worth the grief or is it some "feel good" factor?

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 08:23:04 am
content: Nah, just to know what's wrong with that. Maybe a good project is try to solder with lead free stuff and see how it goes, but definitely not in the imminent future, since I have a lot of things to buy still: from a decent pot trimmer tool to some tweezers...Alright, I'll avoid lead free stuff. Now, let's talk about the solder wick. Is there anything I need to know before purchasing it? And more important, is it better if I buy different width, considered they are not that expensive? What may be a good width? Also, there are some RA and RMA, what's that about?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 08:33:16 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 08:23:04 amGiven your location, I'd suggest looking for Multicore (Henkel) brand desolder braid/wick. As per what width to use, what will you be using?I ask, as it's like soldering iron tips; you have to size the wick to the pad/hole. For example, if you're primarily working with PTH with pad diameters ~ 2.54mm, then .0100"/2.54mm wide wick would be the appropriate size.If you look around quality wick manufacturers (Multicore, Chemtronics, MG Chemicals, ...), they usually have a sizing chart in the literature, such as the datasheet or product line marketing literature. Definitely worth your time to dig into this further IMHO.Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 08:23:04 amFlux activity (ability to clean oxidation off of the metals to be joined).RA = Rosin, ActivatedRMA = Rosin, Mildly ActivatedIn order from weakest to strongest activity, is as follows: R (rosin), RMA, and RA.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:01:49 am
content: I'll be using the baird to desolder trought holes, included to 220, and some SMDs. I'm not going much lower on SMD size, for now. After I've mastered these, maybe I'll try something more compact. However, I'm sure I'll start with big SMDs first and for a while...So, the same considerations done to the solder wire are the same with the desoldering baird? I see there are some no flux baird and they can be mixed with the flux you want. Is that true?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:14:56 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 08:23:04 amThis is where things get interesting, yep, I've got a small canister of it and for all the use it is for the soldering methodologies I use, well..... I might as well throw it away. I've learnt of ways to not need it.You won't get similar responses from many here, probably all to the contrary.If I want a "clean" pad (not often necessary) I flood it with solder and suck it clean with a cheap solder sucker.Want to suck the solder from a stubborn hole, resolder it with a low temp solder and re-suck. Rinse and repeat.As far as methodologies are concerned: necessity is the mother of inventiveness.Now this seem like a bit of time pissing around with molten solder and maybe it is, but it's where a temp controlled iron is invaluable as you can spend some time on pads with little fear of lifting them, but then practice makes perfect....I'm not.By all means get some braid but I don't believe it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.Or you could spend the money on some nice fine (bent and straight) tweezers, some small fine needle nose pliers (bent and straights) and an assortment of tips for your new Hakko.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:50:11 am
content: I once made the mistake of buying a cheap desoldering wick without flux. Without flux, it's useless. Even applying liquid flux on the wick and the surface, it still didn't work right.So if you want to buy some desoldering wick, don't buy the cheapest, buy a good brand one with good flux in it.That bad wick practically made me quit using wick, I bought a good solder sucker and learned to use that well. Good solder suckers are very versatile, if you decide on one don't get the cheapest. I bought one with aluminum body and silicone tip (doesn't burn easily from the soldering iron tip and is flexible enough to shape itself around the area with the solder to suck the solder better.Cheap solder suckers don't create enough suction so again, they'd only piss you off.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 11:11:52 am
content: I have a cheap solder sucker bought from my electronic store quite a while ago... It's a terrible tool. No matter how many times you try, it won't suck the lead off. Not to mention that after 3 uses it's stuck and you have to disassemble and clean it.Ok, so It's better buying a solder wick with flux on it. Good to know.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 02:42:13 pm
content: No, I think you just happen to have one of those cheap and useless solder suckers. Buy one of those higher end models (at around 10-15 uk pounds) and you may be shocked at the difference.Have a look at something like this :http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/343-7253/or this :http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/479-4197/The one I have doesn't have to be cleaned as often as you say and i have to say the technique also matters a lot. When i first started to use solder suckers I was reluctant to touch the sucker tip to the soldering iron tip because i didn't want burnt plastic on the iron tip, but in fact the sucker work best if there's a good seal around the tip area, so that suction pulls the solder inside nice and fast.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 04:17:53 pm
content: Something like this one here:http://www.digikey.it/product-detail/it/jonard-tools/DP-200/K414-ND/243485

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 04:24:24 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 10:01:49 amYou want quality wick that contains flux (R or no-clean). Personally, I use R as I keep liquid RA & RMA on hand, which makes sure any additional flux I apply will mix & perform properly (there are occasions where lots of additional flux is present, such as during drag soldering). The no-clean will likely mix with rosin (many no-cleans do), but I'd test that first to be sure.I go for Chemtronics (Soder-Wik or Chemwik) as it's the best I've ever used. Techspray's wick is quite usable as well (both of these are common in North America). I'm sure you can get them, but not sure if the price is competitive or not in your market.Fortunately, Multicore is widely available in the EU, and is an excellent performer as well, based on comments I've seen from other members (one of these days I'll need another roll and will give it a go).Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 11:11:52 amI'd recommend tossing that POS in the recycle bin and get a good one, such as an Edsyn Soldapullt (i.e.DS017orPT-109). TheEngineer SS-02looks good as well, and a few members that own one have had good things to say about it (scroll down for the SS-02).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 08:19:07 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 09, 2016, 10:14:56 amI left something off this list^^Tip cleaning.A small cup with a good lump of brass or stainless wool, scouring type product.A "tumbler" shaped cup is best as it's more stable.A couple of stabs of your hot iron tip will remove all the solder dross and burnt flux and the tip will look nice and clean.Re-tin as necessary.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 09:48:40 pm
content: So, solder wick is best to buy branded and by application. Also it's better buying a RA or MRA one instead of no flux. Also a good tool may be a solder sucker that must not be too cheap otherwise it won't work. Also silicone's tip sucker ones are a great tool for desoldering because the tip perfectly adhere to the surface, maximizing the effect.Another topic I wanted to discuss has been anticipated:tip cleaning. What am I supposed to do to maintain my iron? Also, I saw that the cheap iron tip started tipping/rusting. Also the heating reservoir started to rust, I guess, due to the environment because the soldering iron is in a garage drawer. Is that normal?We will talk about component placing (tweezers and other tools) later.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 09:48:40 pmDepending on the environment your iron lives in may determine the maintenance it requires.The stainless barrel that retains the tip gets a lot of thermal cycling and some flux splatter so discolors with time.It's not a concern unless you want it looking like the day you bought it.Most of the modern irons are now of stainless construction and rusting is not now such a problem.Tips to heater element fit.This is were you can get into trouble IF you don't change/remove the tip from time to time. The fit clearances can be small and failure to remove or change tips from time to time can result in a stuck tip that when attempting to forcibly remove it could result in a broken element.If your tips are a loose-ish fit you won't have a problem.Some assorted tips I have don't bottom on the element when installed and the lock ring tightened, so they won't work unless you provide some way to bottom them firmly.I have a second handpiece of which the tip retaining barrel is slightly shorter and that's my workaround for the tips that don't quite bottom onto the element. Mix and match.

author: Stuartambient
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:18:56 pm
content: I find tinning the tip once maybe twice a session along with using the brass sponge will keep your tips in good shape. If you use the damp sponge you only do a quick dab and wipe but go for the brass sponge and you'll never look back.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 02:25:38 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 09:48:40 pmDefinitely stick to top tier braid that contains flux. As per application, it comes down to the size of the pad/hole, as you have to match it just as you do a soldering iron tip.Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 09:48:40 pmTin the tip every few joints or so to keep it from oxidizing (you'll figure it out with practice). FWIW, brass wool, particularly that from Hakko (contains flux), does an excellent job. Works with solder alloys that are either lead based or lead-free (originally developed for lead-free, but does an amazing job with leaded as well). Sponges with distilled water still do well for lead based alloys as well. FWIW, if I'v a choice however, I opt for the brass wool.Quote from: R005T3r on July 09, 2016, 09:48:40 pmPlenty of threads on this type of thing if you search.Otherwise, you'd be best to start a new thread.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 08:26:32 am
content: My garage is a humid and hot place, generally... Well is not that hard. Also in the station I'll have there's a brass sponge.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 04:27:06 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on July 09, 2016, 02:57:26 am850 series? How hot get these, close to 500°C? You probably could braze with them...

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 12:08:51 am
content: Quote from: continuo on July 11, 2016, 04:27:06 pmThe tip gets to be about 800F/427C. The tip is too small for brazing!

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 11:53:10 am
content: Another thing I wanted to ask: how do you desolder BGA components? There's no way to acess the joints...

author: gblades
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 11:55:19 am
content: Using a hot air rework station

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 12:07:31 pm
content: You warm up the circuit board from the bottom, can be as simple as a hair dryer or a paint stripping gun or go somewhat pro and use infrared rework stations (google or check youtube for these words and you'll see plenty videos).Just have to make sure the temperature is lower than solder melting temperature, don't want to desolder surface mounted components on the bottom of the pcb, and you want to warm up the board under the chip gradually.Once you're up to a nice warm temperature you can add a few drops of liquid flux on the edges of the bga chip and use a hot air gun to warm the chip (make circles over the chip with the gun, don't keep it in one place to overheat the chip). With the aid of the heated pcb from the bottom, in a few seconds the bga chip should be loose enough that if you tap it with a tweezer or something, it would move on the bga balls and that's how you'll know you can lift it up)

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 12:50:18 pm
content: Seems damn complicated to me...Better to stick with basic stuff....

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 01:50:44 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 15, 2016, 11:53:10 amLike this, for ex:Quote from: R005T3r on July 15, 2016, 12:50:18 pmIt is. BGA is nigh impossible to rework reliably unless you have the proper equipment for it. Smaller chips can be done using hot air, but the large 600+ ball monsters no way.

author: Capa-Alpha
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 02:43:24 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on July 15, 2016, 11:53:10 amRemovalof any BGA is relatively easy ... you could get away with a high powered heat gun wand add a tin foil shield to protect the adjacent components. But removal is not the problem,resolderingis. It's really hard to line up all the solder balls underneath the BGA. Sometimes you can eyeball it using the pcb artwork, but if you are misaligned more than 40% off the pad, the board may initially test out fine - but during thermal cycling (that is, turning the repaired product off & on), the solder joints crack very quickly. So now a proper optical alignment system and placement accuracy becomes critical. Most of the optical alignment systems on rework stations use a prism to split the image so that you can superimpose the BGA solder balls over a an image of the pad area and align using X, Y and Theta micrometers. Then then new or reballed BGA is tenderly lowered onto the pad array by an ultra-precise placement system - It is the optics and placement accuracy precision that makes commercial BGA rework machines so expensive. Unfortunately, this level of capability is beyond the scope of the hobbyist, unless you just won the lottery!Here's an example of a US $30K+ (it's one of the cheaper models) of PACE's production-oriented BGA rework machine here:http://www.paceworldwide.com/products/area-array-bga-rework/bga-rework-systems/tf-1800-bga-csp-qfn-smd-rework-stationYou also might enjoy the 2 minute video: