Professional Engineer - mandatory registration law - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 09:06:20 am
content: Hi.Our state government has demanded engineers working as professional engineers are registered, else pay hefty fines. There is new legislation in Victoria that requires professional engineers to be registered. It is primarily aimed at the building industry. But they do mention those who develop RF devices and medical devices which affects me. I am qualified to be registered and see some merit in it, but the fees are a bloody rip-off.The bureaucrats do not mention electronics engineers, only electrical engineers. This creates ambiguity, and might be used by some as a “get out of jail free” card for electronics engineers.https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/licensing-and-registration/professional-engineersIs this a case of Big Brother Watching You, a good law, or just a money making racket by the state government?

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 09:54:11 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on August 15, 2023, 09:06:20 amI am a foreigner and don't know Australia, but what you describe is not unique. Registration of professionals to "ensure quality" seems to exist everywhere. It starts that way, eventually has little to do with quality, and ends up with excessive fees. For example in some states, registration/license fees for physicians included an assessment for Medicaid (state version of Medicare for needy) tax shortfalls. Predictably, fees increase faster than expenses and/or expenses are bloated by political appointees.In the US, such registration fees are almost all at the state level. They are also used to restrict practice by individuals who live and work mainly out of state.There's nothing you can do about it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 10:26:39 am
content: The thing about engineers is they are good at problem solving.People potentially negatively affected will find a workaround, e.g. calling themselves a consultant instead of an engineer.

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 10:02:18 pm
content: I'm Victorian, will be subject to this. I'm for it. Even basic labor needs a day of formal training and a "white card" certification to be on a building site.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 12:29:11 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on August 15, 2023, 09:06:20 amI suspect they will simply specify "electronics" as a subset of "electrical" . . . and there will be no such escape.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 12:56:00 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 15, 2023, 10:26:39 amYet their business provides "engineering services", which is not aimed at any particular person within the business.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 01:01:29 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on August 15, 2023, 09:54:11 amThe registration of engineers involved in construction is widespread. The registration of other types of engineers is not that common, even when their work is safety related. I always found it strange that I've designed various things, got them through approvals testing, yet couldn't legally install them, as that required someone registered.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 01:47:36 am
content: These laws are generally well intentioned, but I am skeptical of the results. The testing for PE provides some measure of understanding of the applicants understanding of engineering principals, but generally doesn't evaluate understanding of how safety is related to any of that. Most importantly it doesn't measure commitment to safety. Finally, in my several decade engineering career my informal observation of the correlation of engineering capability and quality to professional registration was far less than unity.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 02:43:49 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on August 16, 2023, 01:47:36 amThose aspects of the registration are where the money grabbing tends to focus, but isn't the primary protection anticipated from the legislation/law.Corrupt/dodgy/incompetent engineer with all the right qualifications can continue approving/designing public/safety infrastructure/objects, as they didn't need to maintain any ongoing check of them upholding legal (even before considering ethical) obligations as other professions do.With some form of mandatory registration, in theory, if a body finds that person acted unlawfully then they could be de-registered and no longer able to practice in those areas requiring registration.Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Pharmacists, etc all follow that model and it works better than having nothing (but industry capture tends to make their enforcements soft and investigations superficial/ineffective).

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 07:28:36 am
content: I may have found an exit clause, even though it conflicts with other statements made by the regulator. It sounds like they have not thought out the corner cases very well, which is not surprising.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 07:50:14 am
content: Well, if your country has elections, you can vote.Quote from: jpanhalt on August 15, 2023, 09:54:11 am

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 07:58:23 am
content: I read that three times and my head hurt worse and worse each one. Do "they" even know what that means?I suspect it will be the lawyers who make the most from this.Quote from: VK3DRB on August 16, 2023, 07:28:36 am

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 08:45:11 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on August 15, 2023, 09:06:20 amI'm not familiar with universities making a distinction between electrical and electronic engineering.I've read that in some US states they have similar requirements. In most states, registering as a professional engineer is optional. I believe there is an exam, and the engineer has more liability issues for their work.In Texas, I'm told the requirement is if you claim to be an "engineer" as opposed to a designer, you must register as a professional engineer. I don't believe there is a test, but you can't claim to be an engineer without the registration. This applies to someone working temporarily as well as a resident. That's how I heard about it. Most simply say they are electronic designers, I'm told.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 07:27:12 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 16, 2023, 08:45:11 amIn Australia, unfortunately anyone can call themselves an engineer without qualifications or experience.A side note: An ex-colleague said if he meets a nice young woman at a party, he never says he is an engineer, but instead says he is a designer. The former turns them off as he has found.