hybridfree/eevblog-posts huggingface dataset:
Gerber File Viewer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2020, 02:49:00 am
content: Any suggestions for a standalone Gerber File Viewer? I need to print a PCB board image to paper and use it as a drilling template. So, it will be important that the printed image is very close to 1:1 accuracy.Paul

author: greenpossum
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2020, 04:39:05 am
content: Operating system?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2020, 06:26:18 am
content: I use gerbv:https://sourceforge.net/projects/gerbv/

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2020, 11:35:52 am
content: Many thanks, gerbv worked well. The image printed slightly smaller than the PCB. To get the exact size, export the print to a PDF file. Open up the file in Adobe Acrobat, and adjust the scale in the print settings menu until the board fits precisely on paper. In my case, it was 102%.Paul

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2020, 08:53:28 pm
content: That is probably the fault of your printer and driver, not the gerb viewer. Note also that the paper and humidity level play a part in this as well. Even the handling of the paper can have an effect.
Crimping  JST-XH crimp onto a wire? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: zenerbjt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2020, 08:13:29 pm
content: Hi,Do you agree that this wire has been crimped incorrectly with a JST-XH crimp?...at 3:07 you can see he didnt crimp the end of the insulation of the wire....so his crimping lacks strain relief, and is more likely to see his wire snap at the crimp?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2020, 08:40:55 pm
content: Correct its not optimal. Will it actually matter for his use, who knows.https://iotexpert.com/2018/01/18/jst-connector-crimping-insanity/

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2020, 09:07:58 pm
content: Quote from: zenerbjt on August 17, 2020, 08:13:29 pmYou can search JST manuals how it should be done...

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2020, 04:42:53 pm
content: The crimping procedure is correct (press & release, its that easy). However the wire gauge/size is incorrectly selected for this connector and will not be able to be crimped without damaging either the connector, the insulator or both in the crimping process.XH are 22 to 30 AWG (3A). (tiny wires...). He needs another connector type for this 100000amp wire gauge...

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2020, 08:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: Mecanix on August 24, 2020, 04:42:53 pmThe wire insulation OD should be taken into account (that also depends from a crimp), otherwise can be either in too loose or too thick... or just not possible to do properly.
PCB proto - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: veedub565
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 01:59:17 pm
content: So I was thinking of making this projecthttps://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/airband_receiver.phpIt requires having some custom PCB's made though, The format they provide is Target3001, but the manufacturers they link to seem quite expensive.Any other cheaper options ?**edit** I'm in the UK by the way, although prob doesn't really matter.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 02:07:07 pm
content: Oh, yes! Lots cheaper!Check outPCBShopper.com. It's a price comparison site for PCB manufacturing. Enter your board's specs and it will show you prices and delivery times from 23 different manufacturers, including the best known companies in North America, Europe, and Asia.Full disclosure: I run PCBShopper. I don't get any money for including a company in the price comparison list or for referring users to the company - all my money comes from ads that are bought for a flat monthly fee. And as you can see, there are companies in the price list that do not advertise, and there are companies that advertise that are not in the price list. So I think I (and my site) are pretty unbiased.- Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: veedub565
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 02:30:57 pm
content: Thanks, I'll have a look at these.One thing I like about the links the creators provided, was that you can drag & drop the target3001 files and it gives you a price. I wouldn't know about min drill, trace specs etc..

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 02:59:54 pm
content: I see a lot of people usingJLCPCBI mostly useElecrowNo problems with my PCBs from either

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 04:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: veedub565 on August 22, 2020, 02:30:57 pmMost PCB houses will require you to provide Gerber files.It looks like the creator of the design is not offering these on his website. Maybe a free, limited-capability Target3001 version is available which can create those Gerbers -- the PCBs are relatively small and simple, hence might be within the constraints of a freeware/trial version if it exists. But short of figuting that out, and learning the basics of Target just to product Gerbers, you might prefer to contact the designer and ask if they could publish Gerber files.

author: veedub565
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 06:42:37 pm
content: Thanks, yeah Gerber is certainly more common. I have a friend who can make PCB's from a Gerber file.I'll give the creators a try, and also see if I can convert the files somehow. You never know, I may have some luck with the PCB manufacturers too.
PCB, BOM, PCBA Services In New York Area - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Workalot
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 08:47:20 am
content: Would like to receive comments by members on service providers in the New York area.The manufacturing files will be created in Australia and delivered to a suitable house for PCB, BOM and PCBA services. As the end user of the product is New York based I wish to have the product fabrication done within the USA, hopefully close to NY.This is a low quantity fabrication run ( < 100 units ).regards,Workalot

author: sorteper
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 01:09:56 pm
content: Check out the PCB:NG episode of The Amphour podcast. It’s a few years old now. PCB:NG is (was?) in Brooklyn and another NYC based PCBA is mentioned too.

author: Workalot
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 18, 2020, 08:09:05 am
content: Thank you sorteper for your response.PCB:NG would have worked for me if they accommodated through hole assembly, seems they are SMT only.As you say the podcast does mention an other provider but the lack of sound clarity didn't allow me catch the name.regards,Workalot
Avoiding pinching/melting insulation on high density connectors - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ezalys
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 06:04:20 pm
content: When soldering solder cup LEMO connectors or other high density radial connectors, I find that I have to pinch the wire with tweezers to get it into the solder cup. The problem is that if I do this while the wire is hot, I crush the insulation. What's the proper technique to avoid this happening? It seems as if I should use very very sharp tweezers to grab the wire at the stripped part or grab so far away that the heat hasn't crept so far up that the insulation won't soften at the point of contact. What should I do?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2020, 08:53:14 pm
content: Can you insert the wire into the cup first then apply solder?Maybe:- use teflon wire or other high temperature insulation- heatshrink over top of the solder joint to cover damaged insulation

author: electrolust
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2020, 10:12:08 pm
content: I have a number of suggestions for you.Starting with, use smaller gauge wire!I do this a lot, in automotive (racing) applications. Preference is to use crimp connectors. They are pricier but in racing we don't care too much if you're a builder. Of course if you're a manufacturer you might care. The crimp connectors actually save money as a builder. There have been a number of times I've had to re-pin a single pin. Can't do that with a solder connector. MUCH much more friendly for all kinds of at-the-track repairs.So using a crimp connector is actually my #1 suggestion.I've recently got a solder pot and with wires that are just barely going to fit, tinning them helps ensure I don't get a stray/wild hair when inserting the wire. I haven't been able to tin with an iron to do this, it has to be in a pot. When soldering these, your workholding technique is critical so be sure you have a VERY good setup for this.Or, perhaps a pin vise will help. Get the smallest you can find and don't skimp on the price. The larger ones may go down to 0.xmm diameter but the gaps between the "constrictor" pieces are going to be larger and may also have chamfers cut out of them where they meet, as they are expected to be used on rigid materials. Your strands will end up in those chamfers instead of getting squoze together.Maybe a combination of the pin vise followed by tinning.I know for Binder they make many connectors available with flying leads. I sometimes order those as it's easier to deal with wire-to-wire joins or if the other end is some other kind of easy to deal with connector. I don't know if LEMO has such an option.One last suggestion. Have dry ice handy and freeze the tweezers just before each grab.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2020, 11:18:52 pm
content: Anti-wicking tweezers which are shaped to hold round wire might work for what you want to do.
method of joining PCB to backer plate? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2020, 08:36:39 pm
content: So you can do a backer plate for a PCB, for instance drill out holes in a aluminum plate for all the bottom side components and through holes, and line or anodize the aluminum for non conductivity.But, what is a good removable thing to put under the PCB so it sits tight. I thought like a Silpad or whateverThe first idea was to get silpad sheets and use a hole punch to make a matting under the PCB. Are there better things that are purpose made for this?I don't want glue, its supposed to not be a hassle to repair, its just a gap filler. I think ESD, life expectancy (don't want something that disintegrates like nasty black foam that contaminates instruments), and fire resistance are critical. And it has to be something that easily comes off the PCB, for ease of repair. I am not sure if silpad is the correct thing here, if the PCB is big (up to 1x1 foot).. And it should be something that does not generate smoke if there is a fire (or a minimum of smoke).I think a silpad might be the best choice for power electronics, but say this is a instrumentation PCB that you don't care too much/at all about heat, and insulation might even benefit stability.
High Temperature PCB Manufacturer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TonyPi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 14, 2020, 05:24:03 pm
content: I am looking for someone who makes high temp PCBs. High temp means cyclic exposure to 180C for 10 minutes at a time. Other DFM rules on this design are typical enough to pass JLC.PCBWay does high temp, but the pricing is an order of magnitude out and they have to get the material (Shengyi260) shipped in manually, apparently.It would be nice to have other outfits to compare pricing with, especially if someone has had a good experience with the product. Thanks!
Asian JLC behaviour - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bondus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 09:37:30 pm
content: I got this board back from JLCPCB a few hours ago. I immediately realized my mistake, 0603 caps for the 0402 pads.First interesting part is that they never complained and told me, the high level inspection guys must have spotted this. It's ok to tell the customer he is wrong!2nd interesting part is that someone down the line have done a stellar job twisting and pushing the fat 0603's around to only connect to nearby components where it's alright. Even at non-obvious places. Those guys are heros!Luckily it's a $200 order and I could have thrown them away if not working. And I understand that they have very streamlined processes to keep costs down. But the guy doing the component placement inspections should have halted the SMD assembly.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 11:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: bondus on August 13, 2020, 09:37:30 pmI have the opposite issue with them - their DFM inspectors find all sort of problems that don't exist like non-existent pads when they are clearly there i the gerber. They show the corrected gerber and there are no actual changes from the original gerber I submitted. This has happened on every single job I've had them do. Oddly enough, one of my jobs was an exact repeat of a previous one (same gerbers, same bom, same assembly file) and they found DIFFERENT but still non-existant DFM errors and their correction matched the original. Probably techs making it look like they are doing their job.

author: bondus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 14, 2020, 12:27:26 am
content: They always give you a long list of warnings from the DFM analysis, "missing pad", "unknown" etc when nothing is actually wrong. Probably totally automated.I wonder if there even is a possible results of DFM to stop assembly? Could you DoS attach them by ordering loads of giant boards with no pads packed with $0.0001 resistors? Just to jam up the machines.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2020, 02:49:34 pm
content: Quote from: bondus on August 14, 2020, 12:27:26 amI do not think it's automated - two identical orders each got a different set of DFM errors.And, why would you want anyone to DoS them? They are providing a useful service.
Contract PCB Assembly in Norway - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: NickZA
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 12:55:50 pm
content: Can anybody recommend a company that can assemble lowish volume PCB's in Norway.They would need to be able to handle 0201 size chips, low pin count BGA's and be willing to do low volumes (50 to 500 boards at a time)CheersNick

author: Daixiwen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 06:59:49 am
content: NorautronToProWe have worked with both of them, and they can both work with low volumes and high density components.

author: NickZA
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:25:40 am
content: Quote from: Daixiwen on August 12, 2020, 06:59:49 amThank you. I will get in touch with both of them.

author: Niklas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 09:44:40 pm
content: We have good experience with Norbit EMS at Røros, both for prototypes and serial (approx 500k/year).norbit.com/ems/

author: Araho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2020, 10:50:36 am
content: Simpro Noca has done good work for us, as has WestControl.
source of rather thin flex PCB - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sdouble
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:51:02 am
content: Hi Folks,I do need to have thin flex pcb produced.here are the characteristics :double sided0.3mm vias0.5/0.5 mm spacing1/4 oz copper if possible.no soldermask, no silkscreen.100 x 100 mm2target total thickness : less than 0.1 mm.I am currently stuck at 0.17 mm with the suppliers I usually work with.any suggestion ?tia

author: SerieZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:26:46 pm
content: Have you tried Atlantec sas?I have done some incredibly thin PCB with them. I don't remember if under 0.17mm but you can give it a shot.Also they have facilities in France

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:36:04 pm
content: What about NCAB?https://www.ncabgroup.com/flexible-pcb/do those numbers add up?PCBway isn't that far off according to this pagehttps://www.pcbway.com/pcb_prototype/Stack_up_for_FPC.html,no idea on the finer details tho.

author: sdouble
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 01:10:49 am
content: Thx guys. I sent emails to both companies to see what they can do for me
Best options to decrease PCB dry times after washing? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 03:58:56 pm
content: I am getting busier with a particular line of my PCBs, and I need to increase my throughput through the washing/waterproofing phase.Current workflow is:Wash in ultrasonic cleaner with Flux-Off for 6 minutes.Rinse very well in RO/DI water.Use shop air (filtered, dried, run through ionizer) to dry PCB until no more water is apparent.Dry in curing oven at 85c for 3 hours.Mask for conformal coating.Apply/cure conformal coating.The drying after washing is my bottle neck, as I only have 1 curing oven to do everything currently, and these are large PCBs so only 1 fits in the curing oven at a time. I was thinking of hacking a residential electric oven with a Controleo unit so I could at least pack a bunch to dry per batch.I am a startup on a budget, so please take that into consideration.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 04:01:23 pm
content: You can rinse PCBs with isopropil alcohol, it will take the mayority of the remaining water and evaporate quickly.

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 04:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: ElektroQuark on August 06, 2020, 04:01:23 pmThat would be a LOT of IPA

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 04:53:56 pm
content: .... and without proper equipment be a major fire hazard and probably put you in deep sh!t with the EPA for breaching VOC emission limits.Although a final rinse with dry IPA would speed drying by an order of magnitude, you'd need a purpose designed rinse and drying chamber, to contain the IPA vapour, with an integral fire suppression system, which would be big bucks for certain, and if you don't want to break the bank on running costs you'd also need equipment to reclaim the IPA and dry and purify it for reuse.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 05:03:42 pm
content: Up the drying temperature to 120°C and it should be dry in 15 minutes.

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 05:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on August 06, 2020, 05:03:42 pm105c MAX due to programmed memory chips.
JLCPCB Assembly DFM (non)errors? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2020, 03:05:35 pm
content: Anyone else seeing this?This is the 3rd time I've had JLCPCB assemble boards for me. Every time, they listed several DFM errors but when I looked at the original vs corrected images, there were no changes - they are identical. Even more interesting, one batch was a second run of the exact same board - it got different DFM errors. The boards I got from them were correct and worked fine.One board had "Missing Pads" errors - but best I could tell the pads were there and the boards came out fine.

author: mskeete
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2020, 10:45:04 pm
content: I've see that many times during my orders but tas you said, the boards turn up fine
Zevatech Juki PnP Question - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2020, 08:58:12 pm
content: I recently purchase a Juki PM560 and so far is working great. Do anyone know is is possible to add cut tape components?

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2020, 09:29:50 pm
content: You should be able to set the cut strip up as a tray feeder. Just make sure it is mounted at the correct height.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2020, 06:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: mendez on July 22, 2020, 08:58:12 pmDepending on the design of their feeders, it may be easy to run cut tape as you normally do. I do this all the time on my Philips CSM84.You have to dump 2-3 small passives or pull 2 larger parts off the front of the tape (these can be put back in at the far end later).Then, you have enough cover tape loose to splice an extension on. I keep a bunch of cover tape for this. I splice the cover tape with masking tape, wrapping it around until all the sticky side is wrapped up. Then, feed the cover tape through the pull rollers as usual. Sometimes the splice sticks a little, but it eventually feeds through.Jon

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2020, 09:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on July 23, 2020, 06:22:07 pmOh OK. So use a cut tape on a feeder but extend the cover tape....good idea.It looks like the Juki - 560 has a limitation of a total of 5 different components on a tray...I guess I will need to keep investing in more reels.

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2020, 07:21:01 am
content: Hello Mendez,Just to give you an idea of how we solved this.We designed a Strip Feeder Tray in Jedec format, and it is made out of an ESD safe material.https://printtec.nl/contents/en-uk/d611_Strip_Feeder_Tray.htmlWe use it with the Neoden 4 machines, when making prototypes most people will have a lot of cut tapes.
Anyone ordered UL listed PCBs at JLCPCB? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2020, 09:30:23 am
content: Has anyone ever had JLCPCB manufacture circuit boards with UL listing?How can I order this and ... is do you think it would be reliable that they really use UL listed material and not just some crap material where they just print the UL logo on?Thanks!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2020, 09:58:11 pm
content: They have FR4 TG130-140C and FR4 TG155, its up to you if one of those meets your specifications or not.https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/64-certificationsPCBway has a page as well:https://www.pcbway.com/pcb_prototype/PCB_UL_Certification.html
How to make JLCPCB ignore Top Overlay outside Keepout Layer? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: soFPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 06:17:29 pm
content: Any ideas how to avoid this extra PCB area?I already drew a Keepout-Layer around the PCB but JLCPCB seems to ignore that.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 07:02:42 pm
content: Outline layer (gerberfilename.Outline) works for me.Even if its shown in the viewer it'll be OK in productionTheir viewer isn't great.

author: soFPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 07:26:50 pm
content: Thank you
Which PCB vendor and parts distributor do you guys choose for production? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: redgear
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 03:15:31 pm
content: As the title says, I'm interested in knowing where do you guys get the PCBs for production? Which component distributor do you use?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 03:47:52 pm
content: PCBs, a mix of China direct (not telling), PCBWay for low volume shortish turnaround, UK PCB brokers/Fabs all depends on the qty, quality, customer, historic sourcing, price and time.Components.. all the main authorized distributors. Rapid,RS,Farnell,Digikey,Mouser,TME, Anglia,Arrow,Future,PlusOpto, Wurth plus direct where appropriate e.g enclosures where distribution pricing stinks.Never Aliexpress etc.... I mean why would youhttps://www.theregister.com/2020/07/14/fake_ds18b20_sensor_chips/
TVM802 camera not recognised in device manager - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: webgiorgio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 06:42:52 am
content: Hi,I am having so many problems with this pick and place machine.The main board failed after a week from turning on. After some thousands whatsapp messages with QiHe they sent me a new mainboard.The machine has two cameras (CMOS) connected to the main board, where a IC connect one or the other camera to the input of a USB dongle that does the video conversion to USB. Let's call it grabber.The grabber can be found for about 10 USD in many places like aliexpress under the name of EasyCAP or Syntek STK1160 grabber.At a certain point in time, my computer does not recognize the grabber any more. It is detected as USB device, but it complains about the driver. Device manager saysQuoteReinstalling the driver (o other versions) did not solve the problem.On other computers and different OSs (XP, win7, win10) shows the same error.I suspect that the grabber hardware is faulty. What do you think?I bought a new grabber, and it is recognized by the computer immediately.However the program of the Pnp machine does not have the option to select a video source, and ignores the new grabber.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 07:27:05 am
content: I think you might want to compare the USB hardware identifiers (VID & PID) on the "grabber" capture card and make sure your replacement has matching ones.

author: webgiorgio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 03:36:56 pm
content: They are different.I can't stand the fact that they hard coded the Video->USB device in their program, rather than letting the user choose the video input device.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 04:05:15 pm
content: Stop thinking of it as a computer, its a piece of equipment of which they want control. Adding support for other systems increases variables for fixes and troubleshooting.

author: webgiorgio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 08:33:13 pm
content: TVM802 is a machine made without any consideration to the maintenance.1) All the electronic is under the heavy aluminium plate, which is very difficult to lift and access because of all the cables going between the two parts. What do you troubleshoot if you can't make electrical measurements while the machine is On?2) It would be easier to troubleshoot if there was the option to choose the video input device. What do you troubleshoot if you can't make tests?3) If the device for the video acquisition breaks down after the warranty period and the manufacture does not have it, we have a useless machine and software. For a part that cost 10 USD. It would be more maintenable if there was the possibility to use any Video->USB dongle.By the way, the last driver version for the official video->USB is 2004. State of the art
Problem with PCBWAY sorted out and cause found - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DigitalDeath
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 11:00:14 am
content: I would have posted this as a follow up on the original thread but it was closed, that being said I wanted to let everyone that was interested in the reason why the price changed.According to Anson from PCBWAY who communicated with me via email, the engineer that reviewed the order mistook a 50-boards order (2 panels) for a 50 panels order (1250 boards) and without confirming with us changed the price.He confirmed that there was no issue with the files and other than what I reported in that thread they had asked me to eliminate the soldermask bridges for the case of when using black paint but we had already assigned to a different manufacturer so we had abandoned the order at that point.He also said the reason I couldn't see the reason why it was increased is that they have a bug in their website code that when something is pending as in this case the request to change the soldermask bridges which even being compliant with their specs apparently the black matte can't do this type of bridges which the green can, then the pending state prevents the website from displaying the reason for the price change. So until that pending state is resolved it won't show the reason for why the original price had been increased and that's why the reason it wouldn't show it on my side. He said he requested the bug to be fixed so this doesn't happen in the future.He also said the customer service representative instead of giving me an incorrect answer when I asked why it increased should have asked the engineer when she saw that there was no reason displayed for the price increase so she would have prevented this problem. He said they will train her so she knows how to handle this situation in the future.He apologized for the trouble and put a $50 credit in our account as a token for the errors.I told him not to worry that I understand that mistakes can be made and that I will give them a shot in another board. We make several boards per month so I will be sending a new one to them in a couple of days. I bet there won't be any problem because he came trough and faced the problem and addressed it professionally and that's truly appreciated.Cheers.
Recommendations for PCB assembly services - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: j_omega
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:37:21 pm
content: I am about to produce a large quantity of boards (~300) and am not terribly interested in hand soldering all of them. I have been using JLCPCB for the circuit boards, but now I am looking for an assembly service that is reasonably priced. What have you guys had the best luck with? Should I just get a solder stencil and reflow oven or is there a good company to send them to?

author: mu8051
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 06:09:40 pm
content: You can try lioncircuits from India, they recently launched a low cost $15 service for 2L pcb fab and provide full turn-key service. works good for small-medium batch assembly.

author: MarkR42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 06:46:09 pm
content: JLCPCB do assembly, but they will only assemble smd and only parts which are in their parts library. There are lots of parts, but they might run out of stock of the things in your design, and you can't ask them to get more (yet). But they seem absolutely unbeatable on price, their assembly is "almost free" for small volumes, <30 panels

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 06:47:16 pm
content: If you haven't produced the boards yet, quickturnpcb has been good to me with their bare PCBs. Quality stuff from S. Korea with a very fair price (almost as good a price as PCBWay)I populate all my own boards all the time, so I have no experience with any of them in that regard.quickturnpcb actually caught a layout issue on one of my PCBs. That issue would have cost me not only $600 in wasted PCBs, but who knows how long in trying to figure out why my circuit didn't work! It wasn't a short, just a circuit that decided to dead end instead of connect through a via. This was a large 4 layer PCB. They solidly earned my business after that.Their quote system isn't as slick as JLC or PCBWay, and I usually get my tracking info after the PCBs arrive, but they have been good to me with quality and price.
cleaning lead-free HASL board before soldering - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 1sciguy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 08:42:26 pm
content: I have some boards that were manufactured with lead free HASL last year and I find that they don't readily flow when I'm soldering with fluxed Kester SN96.5 lead free solder. It takes about 1.5 seconds to wick the pad even though the through-hole pin flows right away. If I clean the pad with a pencil eraser prior to soldering, it wicks in about 1/2 second. So clearly the boards are in need of a cleaning before I sit down to solder them. Is there a liquid bath meant for pre-cleaning? I am switching all future boards to immersion gold plating, but looking to use up my old boards. I've read about 99% isopropyl, but wondering if there is something more aggressive.Thanks,John

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 02:23:31 am
content: I don't think IPA will work for removing oxidisation (if, as I suspect, that's what has occurred). How many boards do you have to do - it sounds like the pencil eraser method might be the quickest solution? Although I'm sure there would be some kind of chemical available for this process.It's important to keep unused PCBs sealed up in their packets with silica gel until you're ready to use them.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 05:05:12 am
content: This might work -https://rbpchemical.com/product/hasl-precleaner-sl/I have no knowledge or experience with it though.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 06:46:13 am
content: thin layer of flux + hot plate should do it.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 08:17:23 am
content: Scrub them with a green panscourer?
New sanctions might hit hard supply chain? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 09:50:48 pm
content: https://www.globaltradeandsanctionslaw.com/new-export-control-rules-confront-integration-of-civilian-and-military-technology-development-in-china-russia-and-venezuela/Quote

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 10:40:35 pm
content: I don't see how this will affect most of the people on this forum since most are buying FROM China and aren't selling TO China. I also doubt that many on this forum own, or are buying or selling, the type(s) equipment that falls under this ban.Scary titlebut unless you're a Chinese, Russian or Venezuelan university that is affiliated with the MILITARY I don't see how this is going to affect anyone.

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 11:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 01, 2020, 10:40:35 pmFor example, if you are doing PCBA in China(which is quite common here), your factory might have problems buying US components.And i am not talking about many products that are made in China that might get more expensive because of that.Because:Quoteand list of "controlled" ECCN just got extended.Quote
Conformal coating dip tank or other conformal coating options? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2020, 03:04:01 pm
content: Before I go and build one myself, are there low cost options out there?Right now I rattle can spray all my PCBs with urethane conformal coating, but I need to upgrade to a dip tank for productivity reasons, not to mention better coverage under components.Otherwise, I'm also open to completely new thoughts on waterproofing my PCBs. I have some areas to avoid; PTH screw mounts which act as an earth grounding point, so they need electrical contact. Right now I put a masking tape dot on them prior to spraying. I also have some connectors that can't get coating on the contacts. The PCBs have multiple THT MOSFETS on heat sinks that need waterproofing as well, so its more than a 2D waterproofing job.Urethane is preferred, but I could also use epoxy. Acrylic won't cut it, and I'd rather not use silicone.

author: HHaase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2020, 03:50:25 pm
content: All depends on your budget. You can sometimes find a used Nordson or PVA coating machine for sale with the right atomized or film coat spray heads. I will say that really no spray type system will get you good coverage underneath components though, you generally encapsulate around the edges and seal off the underside.Dipping, if thin enough of a viscosity, will definitely be quick and coat anything not masked. Though cure time tends to be longer and you need to set up a way to hang them for drips.If penetration is the biggest concern, then Parylene may be something to look into. I've never used it myself, and apparently you need to be very thorough about what you mask, but it'll coat everything with a consistently even layer of material. I don't know how complex the process is though.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2020, 03:52:08 pm
content: Consider Parylene conformal coating, it might give you better results than Urethane.

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2020, 05:31:03 pm
content: Looked into the Parylene, doesn't look like it will be a good fit for my operation.Guess I'll just have to build myself a dip tank.
Fake processors - what's the expectation? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 07:24:51 pm
content: So, I'm gearing up to design and build a board with an STM32 chip on it. I know that a lot of STM32 chips on products from china are made with clones that have varying degrees of compatibility but with one certainty - the debug interfaces generally do not work.I've used JLCPCB - they have STMicro STM32 chips in their library. Is it reasonable to assume that they won't substitute something else? Their Q1 prices are 1/2 the reel quantity prices from major US and EU distis. Kind makes me wonder.Are there assembly houses that are better or worse at this?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 08:48:42 pm
content: Is there an actual evidence of clones? Did I miss something?There are GigaDevice parts, but they are not really clones and they are marked as GD parts. It would be hard to "substitute".Also, debug interface is part of the core. I doubt anyone will actually clone ARM cores. And if the core is legit, then you get debugging for free.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 09:51:36 pm
content: Tons of posts on that topic. There are at least 3 other chips not including the GD products. Here's a long thread on the topichttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/cheap-bluepill-very-likely-it-has-fake-stm32-right/

author: soFPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 10:03:47 pm
content: I am also interested in STM32 clones but without debugging via SWD / JTAG I don't think they are that useful. Do you have any further reference for this?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 10:05:07 pm
content: So the "clones" do exist, but as long as they are marked correctly, it is not a problem. I looks like actual re-marking only happens on a very sketchy devices.I seriously doubt there is any risk of getting a fake from a distributor. I would not worry about LCSC at all.If you buy random chips from eBay that also sells clothing items, I would be more skeptical.And yes, debugging works fine on those clones, as long as you understand that they are devices on their own and don't try to use ST tools.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 10:16:37 pm
content: This guy has delved deeply into the issues. It takes a little digging to get to them but he has 4 posts on the topic.https://www.blaatschaap.be/32f103-comparison-part-1/

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 09:45:22 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on June 21, 2020, 07:24:51 pmJLCPCB uses genuine parts and will be fine.That said, if you are working for a bigger company that has money to get the design built elsewhere, use a local assembly house.
Small volume assembly - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MarkR42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 05:37:52 pm
content: Hi,I've used JLCPCB to assemble my boards before and they were great. However, the problem is that they're now out of stock of some of the parts and won't tell me when they might be able to get any, so I've been checking other manufacturers.I'm looking at a small batch of about ~ 40 pieces of a very tiny board (I can panelise it, for example 2 or 8 on a panel) with smd parts on one side only - all of the parts are fairly easy to get.I've had a number of quotes back from far East manufacturers - usually they've quoted me very reasonable prices for the boards and parts, but stupidly high amounts for assembly.So for example, being charged $24 for boards, $80 for parts, and a further $300 for assembly.I realise that getting parts and putting them in the machine takes labour and processing the files etc, checking the results, but it is going to significantly increase the price of my products (which I'm making non-commercially, for hobbyists themselves)If I could find someone who would do it for twice the price that jlc did the last batch, I would be very happy!Any suggestions?

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 08:03:13 pm
content: If you've already tried PCBWay/Elecrow and found them too expensive, you're out of luck.JLCPCB is in a class of their own, I honestly have no idea how/why they are offering service that cheap.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 08:33:08 pm
content: I would also suggest you up your volume. You will probably find that going from 40 to 100 pieces barely raises the assembly total, and probably will also lower your part costs.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 09:19:21 pm
content: Put up your price expectations, give us a dose of Your reality.

author: JLCPCB Official
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 06:24:47 am
content: Quote from: MarkR42 on June 20, 2020, 05:37:52 pmhi, I'm sorry about our inconvenience for you. Yeah, I have to say that our parts library is not well equipped, many parts cannot be added in time. As you mentioned that you have been charged $24 for boards, $80 for parts, and a further $300 for assembly, is the $300 for assembly fee? could you tell me more about which kind of assembly you have done? or you can email me with rebecca@jlcpcb.com, let me look into your case.Thank you
P&P parts shop - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 10:14:50 am
content: Is there any P&P parts online shop with available pricing (not RFQs, call us etc.)?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 10:19:01 am
content: What type of PnP? What type of parts? What region of the world?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 12:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on June 19, 2020, 10:19:01 amJUKI, FUJI and SAMSUNG are in scope of interestQuote from: Kean on June 19, 2020, 10:19:01 amLiterally - everything, wide coverage is better; starting from nozzles/feeders to control boards etc.Quote from: Kean on June 19, 2020, 10:19:01 amNo issues to import from sensiable countries, destination in EU
Somebody heard or used YXD-PCB? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:48:13 am
content: They keep spamming, wondering who they are...http://www.yaxindatech.comQuote

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 11:07:36 am
content: I used them before and also visited their factory in Shenzhen. Very good quality but price is definitely higher than your usual guy. All boards came with the PCB cross section, solder test samples and report.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 12:23:14 pm
content: Their website looks like'nicked''shared' from someone else... long time agoAnd, perhaps, how they managed to get my email too

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 04:24:23 pm
content: I used them after constant spamming for months. Just gave it a try and definitely not bad. Just that stencil has to be purchased elsewhere and payment needed to be TT. I didn't use further after that although they are a higher end factory compared to JLC and similar.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 07:07:24 am
content: When did you use last time?Sounds like they stuck in the past - TT payment only and no stencil offers
Decent hot air rework station?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 10:48:17 pm
content: There seems to be $40 cheap units and $1000+ units.Is there a decent, no frills hot air rework station around the $200-$300 range?Sick of going through the cheap units...

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 12:15:13 am
content: My cheap Chinese unit has served me well for years without a problem. It's either an 878 or an 8878 I forget which.The nozzles don't fit all that well but I don't mind.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 12:20:36 am
content: Quick 861DW.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 01:09:48 am
content: My $50 unit has lasted 4+ years, used multiple days per week. At a certain point you need to replace the heater inside.Anyway, probably 861DW as mentioned or one of the clones. But given your experiences, maybe you'll want the real thing.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/best-bst-863-hot-air-station/

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 05:03:12 pm
content: Thanks all. Visa has been utilized
ahhh, saved by the magic of surface tension! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 02:41:01 am
content: I have a part in my Eagle Library - 74ACHT541 in a TSSOP20 package - that I have used for at least a year on a number of PCBs. Up until the last board it was perfectly fine for hand assembly. I finally got a board done with JLCPCB's assembly service and noticed the 3 parts were slightly crooked. Huh? Looking closely, it turns out the top row of pads was slightly misaligned - .1mm off. Could have been a disaster but during reflow the solder's surface tension caused the pins to center in their pads and thus drew the part slightly crooked. Works perfectly. Whew! I'm not sure where I got that footprint but I check every Eagle footprint I use because there are some really bad ones out there. Needless to say, I need to do a better job checking. Turning on the grid permanently.
Manufacturing NPTH vs PTH - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: c64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2020, 06:12:29 am
content: I designed a PCB which had NPTH (Non Plated Through Hole). Some of them had annular ring and some did not.The ones with ring were manufactured as plated. Not a problem for this particular design but for the future I would like to know is it normal or is it manufacturer screw up?I checked the generated drill files and all holes defined correctly as NPTH

author: Daixiwen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2020, 07:01:59 am
content: I know that some PCB manufacturers ignore the NPTH/PTH indication and just plate all the holes that have an annular ring. Either talk to them or be sure you don't have rings around non plated holes.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 12:01:22 am
content: I did some boards once with JLCPCB just like that - NPTH with annular ring - and they plated the holes anyway even though they were clearly specified as non-plated (separate drill file; note on the order).Was quite annoying, but the boards were still usable.I figured several possible reasons:- Overzealous order review staff thought I made a mistake and 'corrected' it.- Automated process changes all NPTH with annular ring to be plated, to be 'helpful'.- Manufacturing process doesn't allow for it (maybe all holes drilled before plating).