hand drill run-out (chuck wobble) on name-brand drills - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 04:46:14 pm
content: I was thinking of buying a dewalt 'contractor grade' cordless drill with the 20v'max' batteries. its about $170 on amazon.I'm a bit amazed to read lots of reports of chuck wobble or 'run-out' as its often called. on a high end brand like dewalt, why would this be happening? is their manufacting 'slipping' (forgive the pun)? is this the QA dept that is not doing their job?my last drill had serious runout problems, right from the start (a rockwell that was on sale at the time).I've heard of milwaukee and even porter cable (both really good brands) also having chuck run-out.what is going on?? why can't decent brands make a quality drill anymore?are you guys seeing this problem?when I'm paying this much for a contractor grade drill, I expect a perfect chuck. is that asking too much?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 04:58:20 pm
content: You understand "contractor grade" means basic, low tolerance, durable, right? Contractor grade tools are designed to be abused, ill treated, thrown in a toolbox, dropped on the floor, get covered in dirt, and basically given a hard life. Such tools do not have tight clearances or precise alignment. They are not precision tools; making them that way would be pointless.If you want a precision tool, buy a professional grade workshop tool, not a contractor grade job site tool.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:06:41 pm
content: It's like the difference between an AK-47 and an AR-15. An AK-47 can be dropped in the mud, thrown around, fire 2,000 rounds without cleaning, be run over by a tank, and still work afterwards. But it's going to shoot a 10" diameter circle at 100 yards. While an AR-15 or M16 may not take nearly as much abuse, but it's accurate enough to put 30 rounds inside a 2" diameter circle at the same range.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:09:58 pm
content: DeWalt is owned by Black & Decker. 'nuff said about that. Their most recent generation of cordless tools seem to be better than the in the past, but given the choice I'd still opt for Ridgid or Makita. That's not to say that they'll be more precise, but I'd expect to get a much better tool overall.If you want precision, you really don't want a hand drill anyway. You want a drill press or mill.Sadly B&D also own Delta/Porter-Cable. So much for those being go-tool brands for woodworking machinery.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:24:24 pm
content: I do have a small table-top drill press and, recently, access to a machine shop.but I would like to have a precise cordless power drill, too. I think my old (20 yr) makita was true. and some owners are reporting that its hit and miss on the dewalt's they have bought.ok, who IS the go-to brand or model if you want something built to decent precision. does not have to be made to be 'banged around', I don't intend to abuse the tools. but build quality and precision count a lot with me. what should I look for?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:41:00 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 14, 2014, 04:46:14 pmYes, it's asking too much. There is no such thing as a chuck without run-out, and your own hand contributes an order of magnitude more than the chuck (and no, you can't say your hand is steady, it physically isn't able to be that good).Hand drills are not precise, deal with it.

author: Nermash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:42:13 pm
content: Go with ze GermansMetabo brushless, Bosch brushless or Festool.

author: tjb1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:45:51 pm
content: Are they sure the actual chuck is running out or is it just the hand grip?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:54:45 pm
content: I've aBosch 18VLi-ion 1/2" chuckthat has run-out as well (Swiss made FWIW).Some of it's gears are nylon, and it seems as they wear, the shaft the chuck screws into wobbles. Replaced the entire transmission/clutch assy. under warranty, and the new one is doing it as well. Not unusable yet, and otherwise a very good drill, but I expected better given what I paid for the thing (~$350 at the time).

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 06:38:06 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 14, 2014, 05:24:24 pmI have a Ryobi cordless drill that I have been quite happy with. Seems very solidly built and no wobble or looseness in the chuck.(The more expensive lithium ion batteries work much better than the cheaper NiCd batteries. Get Li-ion from the start.)

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 06:39:16 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 14, 2014, 06:38:06 pmDrop it off a tower into some wet mud, see how it holds up..

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 06:40:28 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 14, 2014, 06:39:16 pmI don't intend to do that. I try to look after my tools...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 06:41:33 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 14, 2014, 06:40:28 pmNeither did the guy who dropped his in front of me. Didn't change the end result: A shattered chinese drill.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 06:49:56 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 14, 2014, 05:54:45 pmit should be 'tres, tres precis' then, no?guess not.

author: MasterBuilder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 07:47:31 pm
content: We recently got a makita hand drill at work. After about 3 weeks of heavy use the chuck has moved out from the main body of the drill by about 5mm. Replaced under warrenty. Now a contractor who works with us has also had this happen on his Makita drill but never got it repaired and has had no further isues with the drill, so maybe this is "normal". This drill is similiar to the one at this link:http://www.caulfieldindustrial.com/makita-bhp453rfe-lxt-18v-liion-cordless-combi-drill/p-e13332pd.htmlThe 10 year old Ryobi hand drills we have in the workshop never had this issue, these are significantly heavier drills although they seem to be rated for the same workload. A teardown comparison of the old and new drills would be interesting.The best Ive used was a Metabo drill. It had the same small and light form factor as the Makita above, but with all Metal construction around the chuck.

author: Neverther
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 09:01:30 pm
content: Würth BS 12-A retired and Makita BHP-459 stepped in to replace it (actually cheaper than the 453 linked above) with aftermarket batteries.Nice and powerful drill, no runout, brushless and so far has survived the odd jobs.The reason I have aftermarket batteries is that Makita 18V or 36V lithiumpacks have no balancing at all. None in the charger, none in the battery. The electronics is just monitoring cell voltages and thermals (maybe overload but drill actually handles that before the battery).The circuit in the battery runs from ONE cell, all fine and so on until the said cell discharges too much relative to the others. You go and try charging that: charger gives you red light.If you reinsert the battery two more times for the red light (3 total in row), the battery control kills the pack.If you open the pack before this and manually charge and balance the one cell, the battery becomes good again and works with the charger.If you try this after the three inserts, the pack stays dead for the charger.Thanks to this little design aspect the aftermarket batteries are everywhere and cheap (try finding Milwaukee Red as aftermarket).

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 09:46:29 pm
content: I have a Makita cordless impact and drill (white, with 18v li-ion). I and other people have used the same model for several years on many jobs with no problem, besides cosmetic wear.However the makita brushless series was rushed to market and is plagued with issues. Avoid it at all costs. Some retailers are pulling it to stop the customer complaints.The Milwaukee brushless (FUEL) is very good, also expensive.. Watch out you will put in deck screws right through the entire 2x10!And yes, DeWalt is crap, sorry. It used to be good. Ryobi is also not very good. I have not used/seen a Porter cable cordless so I can't say anything about that one.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 10:16:47 pm
content: I have a Makita cordless that is very good the chuck and spindle run out is far less than any ones hand however steady they are. The best drill at present is Metabo cant be beaten for durability and longevity in industrial use or workshop use. The thing to look for when choosing a drill is a metal case gear box as well as metal gears.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 11:03:16 pm
content: I can also vouch for the The Milwaukee brush-less (FUEL) it can also handle very low speeds with all of its grunt, (something the brushed DC cannot)as far as run out what level of run out are you seeing and into what materials?, i commonly have to drill through fiberglass and sheet metal (1mm thickness) and there may be as best a few 10's of microns on a 6mm drill bit based on the feel of inserting a 6mm bolt through the hole,

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 11:13:24 pm
content: I'm seeing quite a lot of wobble on thin drill bits. something like what you'd use for drilling pcb's for .1 spaced ic leads or resistor leads. or if I use a small bit as a starter on some hole.yes, you can tape a starter hole and then hope the bit stays in that but I'd really like to have a properly built drill and wobble should just NOT happen on something, say, more than $100 worth. I'm reading a lot of reports from people that paid 2x and 3x that and still are getting poor precision on the build of the drill.it also adds stress to the bits when you have off-true chucks.maybe I should just buy an older used model, from when the companies actually cared.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 11:32:19 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 14, 2014, 11:13:24 pmI'm sorry, but cordless drills are absolutely not intended for miniature drills or holes such as for PCBs. That's picking entirely the wrong tool for the job.For PCB drilling you need a miniature high speed drill with collet (not chuck) and a drill stand.Proxxon is a brand commonly suggested.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 12:03:59 am
content: I have a 14.4V Nicad Makita that is 5 or 6 years old now - it's a made in china model that still works like new except the chuck is starting to bind up a little - you can't simply give it a spin and expect it to go from fully open to half closed anymore. I guess it's probably just full of wood dust and needs to be disassembled and cleaned. No run out whatsoever. You can drill <1mm with it no problems, though i use a Dremel with the 220 Workstation for PCBs. I have a mini chuck in my dremel and sometimes it takes a few attempts to mount the bit so it runs true.The current line of Makitas just don't seem built as well as the one that i have. All my tradie mates buy nothing but Milwaukee.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 01:52:31 am
content: Guys,you are using the wrong terminology---A "hand drill" has a handle on the side which you turn to drill your hole.What you are talking about are various types of rechargeable power drills.Seriously,though,I've found,even with less than excellent chucks,these old relics are less likely to chatter & introduce error than any type of power drill.Another alternative is a "Dremel" or similar in a small drill press.Full size rechargeables have too much rotating mass to be stable when used hand held.You'll get away with it most times,but when they mess up,it will usually be at the most critical time.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 07:01:28 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 15, 2014, 01:52:31 amIf someone is annoyed by the runout or instability of a cheap handheld drill, then they probably won't be happy with the slop, play, and misalignment in a Dremel...

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 09:42:29 am
content: Quote from: Tac Eht Xilef on March 15, 2014, 07:01:28 amDremels are alright. The multipro i have only has a bit of axial movement after tens of hours of use. The bearings don't sound too happy anymore above 30,000rpm though...

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 01:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: Tac Eht Xilef on March 15, 2014, 07:01:28 amI've used them both---it's not a lot to do with slop,etc,it is because normal handheld power drills arehuge!They inevitably want to move about,& it doesn't take much at the handle end to throw your drill end out a lot.Note that I said"Dremel or similar in a small drill press."I wasn't talking about freehand--theyarecruddy used that way.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 02:34:38 pm
content: i find all of this talk about precision and run out in cheap hand drill amusing. runout starts in the chuck, without even mentioning the quality of the bearings in the drill itself, this is what a "precision" chuck looks like:http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/metalworking-tools/machine-tool-accessories/drill-chucks-arbors/albrecht-0-1-4-inch-high-precsion-keyless-drill-chuck-1jt?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CNbknvHflL0CFeMSOgodzU0AGQthe very upper end of jacobs chucks, albricht chucks, and llanbrich chucks are some of the names you will be looking for.heres a hint, you WILL NOT find these $250-$400 chucks on a bench drill press for under $1000. you WILL NOT find these on a hand drill, EVER.hand drill are great for what they are, benchtop drill presses are great for what they are. but dont expect to go to the salvation army food pantry and get lobster and caviar. as was mentioned, if you want cheap accuracy, go for something with a collet set up.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 06:25:15 pm
content: When I worked for a jeweller/ watchmaker many years ago he sensitised on the use of an Archimedes drill for very small drill bits, certainly got very little breakage with sub mm drill bits using them.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 06:47:00 pm
content: i recently bought a new gsr 10.8v ec type bosch cordless drill/driver well its driving in screw like 8x180 without problem but if the wood is too thin it will split it without predrilling. done a few houndred scew with it since i bought it a month ago batteries helding up good to being a 2ah batteries. but for the chuck i dont notice any movement at all however the clucth mechanism sounds wierd so i just drive screws with it in drill setting. it would break my wrist long before the drill stops.i have a 4 year old skil masters 2712 it fell on the metal chuck a few times from desktop or some other things from below 1 meter got kicked over a few times with a long drill in the chuck the only thing i noticed after a sideway drilling with a bit effort to "mill" the hole sideways the whole shaft developed a noticable play. cant get the damn thing apart no matter how i try to replace that bearing in the front.if you are looking for a decent cordless drill look for those with a long metal chuck those are much stronger than the plastic cheapy things...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 06:48:50 pm
content: Quote from: M. András on March 15, 2014, 06:47:00 pmYou're aware it's a left-handed thread on the retaining screw?

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2014, 09:39:25 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 15, 2014, 06:48:50 pmyeah, i know. i didnt even try to remove the chuck cos its stuck in there for good. the casing the thing that wont come apart at all and i found no other screws what should be holding it. unless its glued together too, and a damn philips screw when stucked is impossible to remove unless you drill out the head

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2014, 09:26:59 am
content: To remove a chuck after taking out the retaining screw put a large allen key in the chuck and strike that with a copper mallet or a piece of hard wood, never known it to fail, best to put the drill in its lowest gear for this, I have never known this trick to fail in removing drill chucks.

author: Weez
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2014, 01:53:13 pm
content: Yeah, there's really no such animal as a precise hand drill. Most of the big names are pretty good though. I've used pretty much all the brands over the years; currently I use a Milwaukee 12v cordless impact. Can't go wrong with a big name brand, IMO.If you wanna get really fancy, look at the Festool line. Nice tools, heavy price tag.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2014, 09:59:03 am
content: The DeWalt drill body is tough but the batteries will be scrap long before you break it or tear up the high speed. The lower speed will strip out soon if you use it for tapping. I use this brand every day and we get about 3 years of battery life.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2014, 07:02:28 pm
content: I had my one repacked, and it is in use again. Easier than dragging around the extension cord, but not good to drill into walls or if you need a lot of holes, but was perfect today to break drill bits in aluminium framing. Repack was around $25 per battery pack.

author: minibutmany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2014, 10:11:46 pm
content: I have used the dewalt drill and I think it is a quality product. The kind of slop you are talking about isn't going away unless you invest in something like a festool. For very precise drilling go with a drill press, I picked up a skil brand bench top for $120 and I think it works great. Maybe I got lucky but it has zero chuck wobble unlike what I have seen on drill presses costing $500.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 11:45:55 am
content: Most Dewalt tools are assembled in Mexico, China, or Taiwan from parts made in Mexico, China, Taiwan, the Czech Republic, Brazil, Korea, Japan, Thailand, or the USA.Was the drill in question made in red China? Don't expect quality from a third world communist country. You get what you pay for.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 07:45:44 pm
content: Tried the bench drill today on something hard. Bought 20 years ago on auction, and has a keyless chuck I bought for $2 ( mispriced, I took 2 of the 5 they had after a short discussion with the guy taking the other 3) with still reasonable bearings, but it will not do well with a pcb drill in any case. Turns out it can drill Rustenberg black granite quite well, using a water cooled masonry bit. Used it to make a holder for the USB microscope that will not ever fall over, using a block of scrap granite I got in the skip at the local monumentalist. Asked, and they were happy to give the 2.5kg block of scrap out of the 20 ton load in the skip. Drilled a 12mm hole in the top, used epoxy to put in a brass insert turned out of an old air fitting and finished it off with some clear wood varnish to make it black. Not the best microscope, but it will never fall over again on this stand. Granite is cheap or free if you ask at the stonecutters.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:16:30 pm
content: A $170 drill is a cheap drill.Keep in mind that the store probably wants/has keystone pricing, so they are paying $85 for the drill. And it has to be shipped from China to the USA, and the manufacturer has to pay returns, marketing costs, and they have to cover the cost of all their staff and their buildings and website and everything else. So that $170 drill might have $15 or $20 worth of parts in it, if that.It's not that these companies don't care or are incapable of making quality parts, it's that consumers are cheap and don't want to pay for them. The cheap stuff is what sells.Higher quality stuff is available. Look at Festool... but expect to pay more like $500. But it will be good.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:43:27 pm
content: I have a set of Hitachi cordless stuff, only 14.4v. It's been great.Though I have seen one with chuck wobble, but it was used extremely hard as a shared drill in a production workshop for years to get to that state.That's why I bought the Hitachi because the workshop ones had lasted so long.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 10:49:59 am
content: Get a Festool CSXIts an amazing tool and no wobble

author: Dielectric
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 03:55:55 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 18, 2014, 10:43:27 pmI've had a Hitachi 18V Li-ion drill for about 9 years, and bought a second one when the batteries crapped out on the first (cheaper that way). They've been great, very nice feature set without being too loaded with useless crap.I just measured the runout on the newer one and got 0.003". Not exactly lathe quality but for a keyless chuck I'd think that's pretty decent. I'm not a big gnarly contractor guy but I don't take particular care with them either.

author: TassiloH
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 07:09:01 pm
content: I have a little Bosch blue (Pro) 10.8V drill. There is noticeable chuck wobble, and if you insert a drill bit you can move its tip left/right/up/down a little bit. This would be totally inacceptable for use in a drill press, but as a handheld tool this has no negative consequences. Holding it with your hand introduces so much flexibility that you might only feel a little vibration when drilling at higher RPM. So I don't care.Btw., the same tool series is also available from Milwaukee (there sold as 12V series), just the color is different and the battery design is modified (I guess so that you have to stick with one manufacturer). I don't know who is the OEM, all the tools from this series seem to be made in Malaysia, China, and neighboring countries.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 07:45:39 pm
content: Most of these hand-held drills are mostly just intended for some fairly non-exact drilling for ordinary construction and repair uses, I think you are expecting too muchAnyway, another bit of info, Milwaukee is now owned by TTI, so expect their quality to not be quite what you may have expected. (I mean, not horrible, just rather consumer-grade.)

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 08:46:36 pm
content: Last year my Hitachi chuck got wrecked. One guy borrowed it on site and used a broken Auger with it for a hole saw. The auger was round but wasn't the same diameter the whole way along it shaft due to damage ( don't know the cause), so so it cut into the chuck as you tightened it. It was then done up really tightly but wouldn't hold tight, so got tightened again. By the time he told me about problem the chuck was wrecked. It had cut a deep pattern cut into the chuck.I didn't realise how easy it was to damage a chuck before this. I get the hex augers now.This was a brushed drill and since I had moved to brushless I wasn't too concerned. But I replaced the chuck with a $20 no name chuck and it works but I don't really use it much.On the subject of Dewalt quality getting worse. It seems that BD bought a great brand and now use it to sell mediocre tools. Gradually riding the brand name into the ground but making money on the way.I think this buying of old brands with a reputation for quality and then using them to flog cheap generic stuff must be taught as business 101 somewhere.Is this the future for Fluke?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 01:10:45 pm
content: I have an older corded Makita HP1500 that has been a workhorse but it doesn't see much action anymore since I bought a Hitachi DV18DL a few years ago. Both drills have been quite good with very minimal wobble.As others have said, expecting precision cuts from a hand drill is choosing the wrong tool for the job.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 07:18:34 pm
content: I think one of the problems you're going to encounter with a cordless handheld drill for drilling pcbs is bit breakage. The drill bits are small diameter and tend to be brittle. Any sideways torque and there goes your bit.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 08:56:06 pm
content: cheap drill set-up with a good the chuck. it will hold true a 1mm drill bitI checked the chuck inside the shop before I bought this AC hand power drill. the name is power teck ? odd .brand names are NO guarantee of quality nowadays. as brands are bought and sold like real estate.

author: MacMeter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 04:40:28 pm
content: Quote from: miro.kahanek on January 04, 2017, 10:35:56 amI have this same model. Not as bad a wobble as the one in this video, but it’s there. Not sure why the long length of this video, and putting in all the bits, as it’s clearly visible the chucks wobble at the base of the chuck. Built to price I assume, but an equally bad bit of design is the chuck BREAK, saw it mentioned and easily duplicated, the break is so aggressive, that after a few short starts/stops, the chuck loosens and the bits fall out while you are using it.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 05:24:56 pm
content: I have a set of Albrecht chucks (1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and 5/8") which fit my my bench drills and lathe and there is no measurable run-out attributable to the chuck. Then again, with the cost of these chucks I would expect that. You get what you pay for when it comes to precision machine tools.ChrisH

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 08:15:59 pm
content: Two full pages of complaints and explanations about run out before anyone mentions a number.Of course a low price drill can't be expected to have the same run out as high end gear. And a hand drill doesn't need the low run out of a drill press. But it doesn't mean anything until you measure it. There are two components to that measurement. Run out and alignment. Run out is how far the center of the bit at some reference plane is from the center of rotation. Alignment is angle of the bit with respect to the axis of rotation. What most people call run out is the combination measured at the tip of the bit.A good chuck by the best brands mentioned before will have run out in the 0.001 inch (0.03 mm) class, some better, some a little bit worse when used with bits in their size range. All chucks have minimum and maximum sizes. If the jaws are optimized for the smallest possible sizes they will tend to be too weak for large bits, and if set up to have strength for large bits will lose their ability to hold tiny bits.I would expect any chuck, even cost optimized and intended for a hand tool to have run out under 0.01 inch (0.3 mm). This technology has been around for more than a century, and what is needed to control it is well known and not particularly tough.But just like the last poster on the previous page I have found tools with run out of 0.03 in (0.8 mm) and even more. This is really disappointing because I have many low end drills from the 1950s to the 2000's which are far better than this. While part of this is survivor effect (the bad ones were sent to the dump long ago) I think it really does show a decline in quality for some reason that isn't obvious to me.