Looking for PCB fabrication and assembly for through hole PCB - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: samy03
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 04:42:36 pm
content: Hi,I am looking for a PCB fabrication and assembly for our production boards. All the components on the boards are through hole, so I need a manufacturer who will have cheap through hole assembly. Due to high tariffs, I am trying to stay out of China.Please suggest any companies located in countries other than China.Thank you

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 04:47:29 pm
content: PCBShopper's Assembly page shows price comparisons from Accutrace, Advanced Circuits, Bittele, PCB Assembly Express, and Screaming Circuits, all in North America.Disclosure: I run PCBShopper. I have no personal experience with any of those companies' services and I do not get any money from those companies to include them in the price comparison list.- Bob Alexander

author: samy03
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 05:56:59 pm
content: In US, through hole placement is really expensive.I would really appreciate other suggestions.Thank you,

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 06:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: samy03 on July 08, 2019, 05:56:59 pmI know this is going to sound flippant (and I suppose it 10% is [but 90% isn't]), but one other suggestion would be "use SMD parts".

author: samy03
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 07:50:34 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on July 08, 2019, 06:01:31 pmThat would require complete redesign of the board.Quote from: blueskull on July 08, 2019, 06:12:15 pmCurrently we get boards in a rack-mount steel enclosure from China, which used to be really cheap but not so much after current tariffs. The board was designed in early 2000s and all the components are through-hole.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2019, 04:48:12 am
content: Two suggestions(1) Dont rely on online 'price-comparison' web sites. They give you good clues of who might be able to help, but you have no idea of any bias, or relationships they have. Also, the 'advertised' price and the actual prices can widely vary when you get down to it due to a raft of reason.(2) You'll probably find a big price saving in going SMD. Climb into the 21st century my freind. Then you'll have LOTS of options..

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2019, 10:16:34 am
content: Is it through-hole because it has to be (large, high-power resistors, relays, or other components only available in TH)?Or is it through-hole just because it's two decades old?If it's the latter and you're making 250+ of them, it may pay off to redesign as a totally (or mostly) SMD board.With existing schematics/design docs and a sample board, it's likely a low four-figure job for a modest-sized board of typical complexity for an old through-hole design.Through hole parts are going to require manual handling at most PCBAs today; it's not the common/happy path for modern tech.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2019, 05:01:28 pm
content: Quote from: samy03 on July 08, 2019, 07:50:34 pmIf you have schematics, this is not a big deal. It'll save lots of money in the long run.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2019, 06:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: samy03 on July 08, 2019, 07:50:34 pmUnless the board is heinously complex (a dozen or more layers, stuffed with parts), a redesign will work out in your favor. Since the board uses THT parts, my guess is that it's not at all complex.A redesign will allow you to use more modern parts and the whole thing will likely be less expensive to produce.Look at this as an opportunity.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2019, 09:32:05 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on July 09, 2019, 06:00:46 pmWhats the maximum numbers of layers, you've ever seen for a TH board?QuoteThe driver here was cost reduction, so yes.

author: samy03
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 09:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on July 09, 2019, 10:16:34 amYup its that old!My board is 4 layer PCB with 235 total components. I have redesign in my pipeline of projects and that might take up to a year. Meanwhile I would like a to find a fab house which can give reasonable prices as compared to China.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 09:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on July 09, 2019, 05:01:28 pmIt might even save lots of money in the short run. Seriously, they assembly quotes you will get are sending a very strong message!

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 09:24:14 pm
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 09:33:27 pm
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 09:40:05 pm
content: Exactly right! That's why there's nothing patriotic about tariffs and trade wars.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 07:16:22 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 12, 2019, 09:27:27 pmBare and simple risk assessment.We also have a customer who keeps buying our ancient THT boards, for one simple reason: they are next to perfect. No field issues, 100% known project and process --> zero risk. Price is nonrelevant.Could we redesign them? Yes, of course, and they would sure come out cheaper. But the customer is absolutely not willing to accept any risk, and his question is as simple as this: "Where is the advantage in redesigning a working board just for the sake of some fancy SMDs?". To be honest, he is spot on right.So we keep producing them, with a decent profit too.This is a very specific example, of course. In fast paced consumer electronics we have been outcompeted by far east countries since the '80s.But industrial electronics is a different environment, where a THT board sometimes still makes sense.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 07:20:12 am
content: Run your numbers and you'll know if it makes sense or not.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 08:39:09 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 15, 2019, 07:50:11 amGood point for sure, and the answer is related to the environment in which the board operates: rugged industrial, with temperature cycling and vibration (the application is in heavy duty cooking ovens, in restaurants and cruise ships).We already had issues on different projects in the past (~2005) with SMD solder cracking due to fadigue, but we are pretty sure that the culprit may have been the lead-free manufacturing process, that was not exactly mature at the time.If we redesigned the board now, we are almost certain that it would work just fine.The problem is, that the customer is not willing to accept that "almost" in the sentence.One last Point, talking SMD: we had recently far more issues with passives phasing out (MuRata capacitors anyone?) than with our ancient but reliable THT supply chain. Changing a capacitor with an identical one from another brand leads to annoying and expensive re-certification processes, which the customer does not even want to hear about.On a personal side, I am looking forward to ditch those THT boards, just because of… space! Those rolls and boxes are consuming massive amount of space in our warehouse!

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 10:23:22 am
content: your customer will eventually have no choice, as TH will continue to get more expensive and more less avaialble.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 11:34:21 am
content: Quote from: brabus on July 15, 2019, 07:16:22 amIf the price your customer is willing to pay is not relevant to his purchase consideration and you’re experiencing margin pressures from increased costs, increase the selling price of the boards to capture the desired/needed margin.If you try raising prices and get objections, I’d suggest that price is relevant to your customer. But if it’s not, you have a business solution to the initially perceived engineering problem.

author: samy03
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 02:03:15 pm
content: In all these replies, no one suggested any manufacturer but instead everyone is trying to prove their point!

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 02:49:39 pm
content: "Forum" is an ancient latin word, which can be roughly translated as "discussion place". We would call it "Service desk" otherwise.Speaking about the EU area (shipping is rather cheap nowadays), I can only recommend my preferred manufacturer: Flextronics. Not economical, but hey, you get what you pay for: zero recalls.Another manufacturer, definitely cheaper, is Schurter.I cannot recommend manufacturers in Asia or in the US, as I do not have direct experiences with them on THT projects.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 03:32:01 pm
content: Quote from: samy03 on July 15, 2019, 02:03:15 pmI think you lost a lot of folks when you said "cheap though-hole assembly." If people had known a some companies to refer you to, they would have provided them. So, in a sense, you did get an answer to your question: silence. I'll admit that the responses you did receive were all about trying to help by providing "second best" options.Personally, though I totally respect that it may be cost- and time-prohibitive to redesign your board, it also could very well be that there is no economic solution to your problem as stated.Unlike a commercial transaction where "the customer is always right", this is a forum where strangers can offer their advice however they see fit. Fortunately, this "bad" advice was free, and you can easily ignore it and you're no worse off than before.

author: samy03
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 02:51:10 pm
content: I appreciate all your suggestions!Thanks guys