New Species of Electric Eel, most powerful electric animal shock discovered 860W - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 07:51:39 am
content: Amazing:https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/11/americas/electric-eel-scientist-amazon-intl-hnk-scli/index.htmlhttps://www.courthousenews.com/new-species-of-electric-eel-is-the-most-shocking-yet/Quotelow amperage 1A? 1Ax860V=860W.I believe it is DC but I am not sure.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:18:18 am
content: The article says 1A isn't enough to kill a human, which is false, but it's probably true the eel can't deliver a powerful enough shock to kill a human.Talking about power doesn't make much sense here. If it can generate 860V at 1A, it won't be for very long. There's no way a cold blooded animal that size will be able to generate that much power for a sustained period. It's metabolically impossible. It makes more sense to talk about the energy delivered by the shock and how many shocks it can deliver before resting.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:20:02 am
content: No eel-farm generator plant without Watthour rating per animal

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:36:58 am
content: Shocking!

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:46:34 am
content: Where does the 1A figure come from? I didn't see it in the study itself, the only reference I found was from only one article.Study:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-11690-zEdit: I think the source might be this:https://phys.org/pdf487323231.pdfBut no mention of how it was actually measured.They did mention however that it's not DC, but pulses.Quote

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 12:06:53 pm
content: Would be great to have an aquarium in your electric car with a few of them inside, charging the batteries...

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 12:13:29 pm
content: move over solar roadways,we got electric canals now.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 12:40:03 pm
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel#Physiologyok, now I want one. Those animals are the ultimate TEA toy.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 01:00:52 pm
content: Right there... see? Prove that Mother Nature is a bitch! Polar bears polar bears...

author: mark03
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:07:23 pm
content: Actual paper is here:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-11690-zQuoteThe high-voltage "EODs" (electric organ discharges) are short, about a millisecond, and on the 860V specimen the head and tail probes were one meter apart. No indication what the max-power point would be, but these are freshwater eels, so I guess if you knew the typical conductivity of the rivers they live in you could figure the average current. I don't know where the 1A figure came from; seems implausible.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 12, 2019, 12:06:53 pmBut will they last for a drive to the pet store to get that eel food? No free lunch here, mister!However, now, there is this urban farming concept that needs to bring down the electricity bill.... !Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on September 12, 2019, 01:00:52 pmThis one took a while

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2019, 08:37:22 pm
content: I've often wondered what it feels like for the Eel.Even if I had the ability to internally generate 860V between my head and my backside I'd certainly think twice about doing it!Pumping 1A into the water through relatively small areas of the eel's skin must at least cause some localised heating / burning.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 12:17:18 am
content: Anyway, just shut up!This might give Elon Musk ideas. Imagine the next gen Tesla with a tank full of eels instead of lithium-ion batteries...TheTesla Unagi.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 01:00:25 am
content: If we went down that road. It would be a hit to efficiency. not sure about the energy density of the fuel.Plants convert sunlight to sugers with an efficiency of 3-11% depending on the study. Eel cells can convert sugers to electricity with up to 20% efficiency with current research.So you have a safe to handle solid fuel pellets. And can grow as large a suger farm as you need with minimal maintainance. Also a giant CO2 spoungeSounds like a fun new world for biochemists / bioengineers

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 02:25:56 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on September 13, 2019, 01:00:25 amBut for eels, maybe not so much.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 02:48:39 am
content: Quote from: mark03 on September 12, 2019, 08:07:23 pmIs the head the positive terminal? Or does it vary?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 02:53:54 am
content: Well you don't need the whole animal to accomplish the same function. Just the cells. Same for plants.Imagine them built up in sheets with a thin film of suger water flowing over 1 side. Each cell giving about 0.3VI suppose the ulimate green battery would be someone frankensteining a photosynthetic organism with the eel cell mechanism so there is no intermediate step.Then again I am left Imagining the floor is lava level stuff that might happen if you spilt a truck load of it on a sunny day.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 04:07:04 am
content: Sugar is about 18 times as energy dense as lithium batteries, while fat is about 43 times as energy dense. At 20% conversion efficiency, that's 3.6 times and 8.6 times, still pretty impressive.I wonder if scientists know exactly why fat is so energy dense and if that knowledge could be of help in developing better battery technology. (At Texas A&M, a research group actually made a working fuel cell that generated electricity from fat, but it only worked well enough to be a proof of concept and had no practical use. I'm not sure if they have made improvements since - it was close to a decade ago.)

author: EEEnthusiast
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 04:46:32 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 13, 2019, 04:07:04 amA simple wick lamp fueled by fat can be used to power a heat engine. This may not be very efficient, but still burns the fat.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 06:47:13 am
content: I had a high school teacher who used to say that if the electric fish (it's not technically an eel) knew what we think about electric fields it would probably laugh at us.

author: lwatts666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 06:59:44 am
content: Can't help myself - visualizing an eel in a batterizer...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 08:26:42 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 13, 2019, 04:07:04 amThe energy released from combustion of a fat can be fairly easily calculated. It's simply the energy released when the hydrogen and carbon atoms form bonds with oxygen to make CO2and H2O, minus the energy required to break the fat and oxygen molecules up into individual atoms i.e. the activation energy. This knowledge will not help to develop a better battery. There are other substances which have a higher energy density than fat, such as coal for example. A heat engine can be powered by fat or coal to generate electricity, but its efficiency is limited by the Carnot's therem. A fuel cell can be theoretically more efficient, than a heat engine, because it doesn't rely on a temperature differential to generate electricity.Refer to Carnot's theorem.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot%27s_theorem_(thermodynamics)EDIT:One of the references in Wikipedia article state Carnot's theorem might apply to fuel cells, in which case they're no more efficient than a heat engine, but this has yet to be proven.http://eprints.iisc.ernet.in/42739/

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 01:39:53 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on September 13, 2019, 02:53:54 amThey probably utilize known galvanic cells and some insulation and probably take a while for recharging. Could work like a flow cell.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 01:54:54 pm
content: One advantage of eel powered vehicles,is when the eel is flat you've got a tasty snack.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 03:17:27 pm
content: Didn't you guys learn anything from the Star Trek Voyager episode,Equinox, I mean your all starting to sound like Captain Ransom here.... Ever consider the Eels might have feelings too?As for me, I'm a member of the other "PETA", People for Eating Tasty Animals... Which means responsible stewardship, unlike Congress and the US National Helium Reserve...In that picture the Eel seems to have that crotale / rattlesnake / pit viper, venomous octopus "confident" look in its eye, not sure I'd like to mess with a school of them. Think Phased Array...Since the Eels can possibly communicate over long distances, the biologists will probably put them on the same list as primates, canids, Cetacea, and cephalopods, off limits for any painful research..I wonder if the three known species that can "Stun" help out the other eel species that can only sense ? Would make for an interesting concept. a biological hunter/killer group.SteveSpoiler Alert:Spoiler Alert:Spoiler Alert:Spoiler Alert:Another Starfleet starship trapped in the Delta Quadrant is using energy found in time hopping aliens bodies to speed up the warp drive. The aliens die in the process. The aliens are fighting back, and hit at Voyager... Thinking its Equinox.. Captain Janeway of course goes all "Prime Directive" on the other captain and crew... Janeway uses enhanced interrogation techniques on the other crew that the folks at Guantanamo Bay would wince at. Which ends in cataclysmic disaster for the other ship. I'm not a fan of Captain Janeway's character, either...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 03:39:56 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on September 13, 2019, 08:26:42 amAnd frankly, if fat is going to be the next fuel, there will be no shortage of it for at least decades to come.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 08:57:40 pm
content: That's pretty crazy. Wonder if this concept could help in designing a battery or energy source. My guess is 860w is the very high scale and it might take a long time for it to "recharge". No such thing as free energy so as impressive as this is it's probably not the most efficient source of power.If you find yourself with a huge shipment of fish food, suppose it would be a way to convert it into electricity.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 09:03:40 pm
content: As a side thought, that would be kind of a shame if some ability eels probably mainly acquired to defend themselves was eventually going to be used at their expense...

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2019, 12:08:45 am
content: An eel on a whole is a lot less efficient than just the parts that produce electricity, you don't need it able to hunt or reproduce, just something in = consistent electricity out when needed, and to survive for ideally weeks with minimal fuel for the idle periods,I think I will call this madness Zap-Zap Taxi's

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2019, 10:53:56 am
content: Sooo... if an eel bites the ass of another eel, are they actually connected in series?

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2019, 05:09:51 pm
content: Imagine Eel dating... If she doesn't like your style of dinner and dancing, your in for quite a shock...I wonder how the switching mechanism works. 10 mS, 810v1A is pretty respectable switch, even though they must be in series. Even more so when it is biogical.Steve

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2019, 05:24:49 pm
content: An 1kg heavy sleeping eel = 25TWh energy..