Choices - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:58:19 pm
content: Just curious as to what others would choose, I am looking at a new laptop for everyday work use, most CAD software I have will work on either integrated chip set.Choice 1 - Processor:1. AMD A8 74102. Intel i3-5005uI think the AMD is better as it has dedicated graphics memory that I read.Choice 2 - Memory + Storage:1. 16GB RAM + 1TB HDD2. 8GB RAM + 2TB HDDMost of my devices have at least 1TB of storage, and I use a NAS drive at home with 4 x 4TB drives, I don't know what the cheaper option is, replace the HDD with a 2TB or replace the memory with 16GB.So just interested to see what others would choose and why.Cheers

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 08:35:11 pm
content: I hope when you typed HDD you actually meant SSD.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 09:00:56 pm
content: Well a 2TB would be very expensive. What about a smaller SSD as well? Quite often it's the hard drive which is the main bottleneck in a modern PC.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 09:07:43 pm
content: Unless space is needed for a lot of movies, music, and games then 120 GB is probably more than enough storage. SSDs that size are well under $100.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 09:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on August 06, 2016, 09:07:43 pmHe did imply it needed to be 1TB. In that case it's best to use the 120GB SSD for the OS and programs and HDD for the videos.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 09:19:29 pm
content: Why would I mean a 1TB SSD?CAD files and music files can take a lot of space, it will also hold video files.It's a laptop so I doubt it will have room for 2, the best case would be a hybrid 1TB drive.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 09:38:12 pm
content: I'd take the i3, although preferably an i5.What size of laptop? If you want a properly useful one (15"), you can easily have both SSD and HDD. SSD highly preferred - massively faster, lower power, far more tolerant to movement.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 10:18:35 pm
content: 15"I've since seen one with a A10, 12GB RAM and a 1TB + 8GB SSHD which I am considering.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 10:23:53 pm
content: Those hybrid things are daft.A budget helps a lot with suggestions, but.. if you want something decent, look at the Latitude 5000 series. Reasonably built, room for an M.2 SSD (both SATA and PCI-E, NVMe included) and a normal 2.5"..

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 10:55:50 pm
content: Which OS? an 8 GB SSD is more than enough for Linux, but Windows will want a lot more than that.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 11:53:49 pm
content: Under £400, I have my gaming laptop, so I just want a "work" laptop essentially, the ones I have seen and mentioned are between £320 and £380.Windows 10 x64 on all of the latest models.After looking into more CPU benchmarks it would appear that the AMD A8 and A10 are more powerful than the i3, and the only chip with a better GPU would be the i5. Plus the AMD chips have dedicated graphics memory.So I have narrowed it down (unless someone has a sensible alternative) to one of the following:http://www.box.co.uk/HP_Pavilion_15_in_Silver_1876096.htmlhttp://www.box.co.uk/Lenovo_B50-45_1919277.htmlhttp://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=W8X88EA&opt=ABU&sel=NTBhttp://www.tesco.com/direct/lenovo-500-15acz-156-amd-a10-12gb-ram-1tb-hdd-white-laptop/144-2421.prd?skuId=144-2421I have had Lenovo and HP laptops in the past and both have been fine, I currently use a Dell for gaming etc, and I have a Toshiba i5 for my embedded programming etc. The only brand laptop I have not had good dealings with is a Samsung which kept BSOD on Windows 7 x64.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 11:55:58 pm
content: Oh, you want a cheap plastic thing.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 12:23:29 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 06, 2016, 11:55:58 pmExactly!A cheap, plastic, shitty thing, that's all I need.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 12:31:50 am
content: They're all much of a muchness, and of course you can say goodbye to any dreams of performance or durability.The i3s will generally be superior in single-threaded tasks, but the APUs do have superior graphics (at least down at this range. Totally different ballgame if Iris is an option). They donothave dedicated memory.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 01:49:23 am
content: I don't need performance, most laptops are durable, I have a cheap core 2 duo with XP that still works fine, that was only £300-£400 at the time, had to replace the HDD a few times, and it only has 2GB ram, works as a VHS -> DVD converter now as it's the only OS my cheap shitty capture device works with.I know the some i5 chips have better graphics, I thought I read on one of the APU series laptop specs that it had 2GB dedicated GPU memory.Some of the i3 and i5 laptops come with Radeon R5 + R7 chipsets, but i'm not running solidworks or anything, as long as it will render my PCB in 3D, which I would be surprised if it didn't as even an old 440 graphics chipset will, then it will be fine.Is the A10 that much better than the A8?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 01:59:00 am
content: Banner specs lie, just like in datasheets, except they're lying to the consumer, they can be much bolder. APUs have but one memory controller, and an enforced split on PC platforms.The A10-8700P should be substantially more potent than a 6 or 7 series A8, but probably a tad more power hungry.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:03:00 am
content: Yeah, I know they lie!Would it be worth getting one with 8GB, and buying 2 x 8GB modules, or go with 12GB, not sure it will make much difference.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:07:58 am
content: RAM's cheap, CPUs aren't. Also, the mobile APUs are soldered, so..The HP thing's got a shitty little 1366x768 display, every time I touch one of those I cringe. There isn't enough room to use a damn calculator, let alone get work done.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:33:40 am
content: Most laptops in that range have that res.I will hook it up to an external keyboard, mouse and monitor when at work, so I will at least be able to get 1080 from the HDMI hopefully!Another option would be these:http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/hewlett-packard-a1-refurbished-hp-15-ac151sa-intel-core-i3-5020u-8gb-2tb-wi-a1-p0u69ea-w10/version.asphttp://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/a1-refurbished-asus-intel-core-i5-5200u-8gb-1tb-15.6-windows-10-laptop-a1-x555la-dm1672t/version.asphttp://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/medion-akoya-e6421-core-i5-6200u-8gb-1tb-15.6-inch-windows-10-laptop-30020525/version.aspRefurbished ones don't bother me, i'm cheap!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:36:03 am
content: The Lenovo with the A10 you linked previously has a 1080p display.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:38:09 am
content: Yeah, then I read the reviews!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:44:58 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on August 07, 2016, 02:38:09 amIt's flimsy, someone found a bug, and someone else didn't know what they were buying - what's unexpected here?If 'refurbished' is a valid option, things like this can be had:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Latitude-E6530-Quad-Core-i7-2-7GHz-RW-250GB-SSD-16GB-Windows-10-x64-/162139233251They run a tad warm (especially the i7s), but they're fast, solid, great displays, good keyboards, room for two drives (if you sacrifice the ODD.. anyone use those this decade?), etc. Obviously have to invest in an HDD for that example. There are some E6540s around, too.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:51:24 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 07, 2016, 02:49:14 am+ shipping + 20% - why bother, the E6530 above is better spec..

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:55:40 am
content: Not a fan of SSD's, had 2 EVO 850s fail, rather stick with mechanical.I would go to an i5 if the price was right, not an i7, don't need it.The more I read the more the i3 is preferable over the A series.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 02:58:06 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on August 07, 2016, 02:55:40 am850 EVO's are not the most reliable, the Pro's are much tougher. I've killed a LOT more HDDs than SSDs, especially in laptops.How about an i5 E6540:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Latitude-E6540-Core-i5-4300M-8GB-500GB-USB3-HDMI-1920x1080-15-6-HD-Screen-/282123141155Shove a larger HDD in, or buy the bay module and put a second one in. Might be a few generations old, but they're a lot more machine than a new plastic one.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 03:02:22 am
content: It has 4600 graphics, my old desktop had 4400 and nothing was compatible with it!My new desktop has 5500 graphics and works with pretty much anything, guess that's the trouble with older chips!I have had laptops with standard HDD's that have lasted 5+ years, never failed any less than 3+ years!Had some OCZ SSD's also which failed, they don't like being written to!! They are OK for boot, but I wouldn't trust them to store my data.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 03:07:56 am
content: The E6530 I linked likely has nVidia discrete in it. E6540s had similar options, with a bit of hunting.If your data exists on only one drive, HDD or SSD, your data does not exist.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 02:33:25 am
content: What the heck are you doing to get SSD's to fail? I have 4 machines now with Samsungs, 850's in 3 of then and an 830 which was current when I bought it in the other. I have two older machines with lesser brand SSDs that still run if I need them, going on 8 years old.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 02:35:52 am
content: SSDs do fail, for a variety of reasons. Sadly often very suddenly - the upside is they DON'T fail because you knocked the laptop off the coffee table, used it in the car or on a bumpy train ride, etc. I'll take that tradeoff any day.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 02:41:23 am
content: I will never go back. When I use a computer that doesn't have an SSD I get very annoyed, very quickly. The instant bootup alone is a huge time saver. At today's prices I have a 500GB one in all my computers, but for mass storage of videos and my music and photos, I have a server with 13TB of storage in it (effectively half usable because I have duplication enabled, which writes every file to at least 2 different physical drives inside the unit - this is NOT a NAS, there is no RAID to deal with). Irreplaceable stuff is backed up off site, things I can just download again, even though it might be painful to recover it all, I don't bother and just use the disk duplication to protect it from a drive failure in the box.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 03:26:06 am
content: I've had one SSD go bad. It didn't fail out right, just got to where it didn't want to boot. I replaced it with a 120GB Kingston V300. You can frequently get those for $39 at Newegg. I bought 6 the last time they were on sale and still have a couple left. And I agree, it's gotten to where I find computers without an SSD almost unusable

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 08:02:30 am
content: I've had to buy one of those cheap machines (i3, 4GB, 500GB, 1366x768) for a short term replacement and I'd consider it absolutely unuseable for anything meaningful. Yes it got the thing done which is what mattered in this case, but what a pain. Trying to work on it would mean you spend half your day pestering and waiting on the dead slow thing to crawl forward instead of doing actual work.After the 2 weeks I replaced the HDD with an old 120GB SSD I had laying around and it's already another world.The 4GB of RAM had a lot to do with this by often requiring to resort to swap on the slow HDD, it is NOT suitable for anything nowadays. 8GB minimum.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 11:22:44 am
content: My experience with SSD's are not very good unfortunately,tried several makes, they don't seem to like working, i.e. transferring data!Unfortunately or fortunately, last night my i5 Toshiba (which I bought a few years ago for nearly £1k) has failed (Sandisk Plus 480 SSD...It's not even that old!) and states it cannot find a boot partition, when I pulled the drive and plugged it into my SATA - USB bridge it fails to recognise the drive. Maybe it's heat related, that laptop was used for games as it has a decent mobile graphics chip (NVIDIA), nonetheless it failed.My i7 which has 2 x 1TB mechanical drives (Seagate) is going strong since 2012 when I replaced the 2 x 500GB drives.So, I won't bother with a new laptop now, i'll just grab a new mechanical 2TB drive for the Toshiba and use that, it has 12GB RAM already, so I won't need to upgrade that.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 12:15:34 pm
content: Let him find it out since he obviously wants to go his way. He'll buy his HDD, go mad after 3 days, understand and buy an SSD again. And buy an external case to put the HDD in so it isn't just pure loss.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 12:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 07, 2016, 02:44:58 amI second the Dell. I have a company issued Latitude E6420 with an i7-2760QM processor, 8 Gb ram and a 250 Gb SSD. I also have a docking station and a couple of 24" monitors on it. I added a 3rd monitor with a USB video card and and very happy with the setup. I have it 6 years now and it keeps on keeping on. It also goes on service calls with me and has seen its share of abuse but just keeps going. It does run warm though.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 12:39:13 pm
content: Had a few OCZ SSD that used to fail until they had a firmware update that fixed the storage handling of the drive. They are in various home theater devices/laptops/silly Sony stuff around the house.Had an Intel SSD that didn't die - in fact I think it will never die. It is now used as a Linux second boot in my desktop. Worked for 5 years as the main OS drive.Now have a Samsung 950 Pro over an NVMe slot. That thing is very fast - if expensive. I use a secondary 4TB drive mapped to the Users directory.The reliability of SSD over the 6-7 years I've been using them has improved dramatically. Would never use a spinning disk as a main drive ever again...

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 04:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on August 08, 2016, 12:15:34 pmLOL!I'd rather wait an extra minute for my machine to boot than have to re-install the OS every-time the SSD breaks, so, no, I won't "understand".The Toshiba didn't come with the SSD, I added it, it came with a 1TB mechanical.If the machine would take 2 drives I would add an SSD as a boot drive, but sadly I have to use it as a data drive also, which seems to make it fail.I don't even know where all the hype about the SSD came from, I had no intention on using a SSD, I don't care about performance from the HDD, it will sleep / hibernate most of the time, yes SSD's are quicker, less reliable in my opinion though, I trust mechanical drives more so than SSD's right now!