Digi-Key getting whipsawed by arbitrary tariff policies - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:53:21 am
content: This isn't political. The US is creating tariff policies that are endangering long established and critically important companies like Digi-Key. Electronics is a global business but US tariff policies don't recognize this. The "back end" of most manufacturing is done in Asia- it usually involves high touch labor and is generally low skilled. US policies don't allow for this. Below is a 5 minute story from NPR about the plight of Digi-Key. I have written my two senators about the impact of losing Digi-Key. They are really stressed by recent US policies to the point of survival. I depend so much on these guys, I'd hate to see them pushed out of business by some poorly implemented policy. Please be aware and consider contacting your representatives.I can't seem to link the NPR Story but google this topic-A small U.S. town grew a big company. Can it weather the tariff blizzard?

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 08:01:24 am
content: Quote from: jwet on May 01, 2025, 05:53:21 amLink to story:https://www.npr.org/2025/04/24/nx-s1-5332209/digikey-tariff-small-minnesota-town-big-company

author: Fflint
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 08:44:44 am
content: Very sad. While I haven't used DigiKey for quite a bit (due to expensive shipping from the US) it is good to have a big supplier willing to ship worldwide. Even if you never used them their disappearance may impact you if you're into electronics as a hobby (or even worse a profession).The less competition the worse the market can get. To the point when there is a monopoly and the single supplier can dictate terms and prices however they like.Personally I do not understand how this policy of nuking own economy from the orbit can still enjoy almost 40% support from the population.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 08:54:35 am
content: "And so DigiKey faces its own existential dilemma: Any bigwig consulting firm would likely tell DigiKey to open warehouses in Europe and Asia, to bypass the United States."You guys all act like this is something unique.The EU has 5612 different kind of tariff rates on Chinese products.https://wits.worldbank.org/tariff/trains/en/country/EUN/partner/CHN/product/allSo please stop with the sob story that you have no way of implementing something so mundane in software.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 09:00:30 am
content: A lot of the time you can apply for an exemption to duty/tariffs/tax if you are importing something for the purpose of exporting it in the same form. Dunno if digikey could do that to bypass the tariffs for parts that they ship back out of USA to around the world.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 09:10:27 am
content: Quote from: Psi on May 01, 2025, 09:00:30 amA one man shop doing coat buttons can do it, if they can do their taxes.There are bookkeepers for this.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 10:38:53 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 01, 2025, 09:10:27 amYou know, this huge company never thought of this and doesn't have these processes already or they would have mentioned them in the article.... oh wait.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 10:53:31 am
content: DigiKey is a bit odd in how it operates. It always feels like you're using a system from the past decade when dealing with them.I suspect they've become so large they lost the flexibility for change.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:06:02 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 01, 2025, 08:54:35 amIt's 0% for the vast majority of electronic components. And most of those 5612 are either 0 or a few %.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:09:28 am
content: Quote from: Psi on May 01, 2025, 09:00:30 amAFAIK they do this, however it's very problematic. It's not like they simply transit them. How do you even reasonably do it if you're selling stock imported at different times under different tariffs to both US and foreign markets?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:59:32 am
content: Quote from: SMTech on May 01, 2025, 10:38:53 amExactly. But then again, every political article seems to be written this way:Maybe journalists might have an agenda?

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 12:14:29 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 01, 2025, 09:10:27 amIf the tariffs had been implemented in a coherent and orderly manner, you would be absolutely correct.But as everyone knows, Trump essentially pulled the tariff’s regulations straight off his colon. And changes his mind every time a flatulence comes off. Everyone is in a disarray, not exactly sure how to proceed next, it is not only DigiKey.

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 01:02:05 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 01, 2025, 08:54:35 amPlease read or listen to the NPR story. Digikey has some European and Asian warehousing, etc but the point of this trade scuffle was to improve jobs and business in the US. Moving all business offshore kind of defeats the purpose- perhaps the government could understand how modern business works before sweeping in and inflicting needless and detrimental laws that no one wants. The management consulting firms are how we got here. The laws are written in such moronic a way that there are no exceptions as there were in the past. This isn't about software- this is hundreds of millions of dollars in costs that are completely unnecessary. Tyranny is insidious- its all fun and games until they come for you.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 01:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on May 01, 2025, 01:02:05 pmDigikey has only one warehouse. They have some regional offices, but no warehouses outside the US.

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 02:14:22 pm
content: Sorry- I edited my post before and then see that you responded.This is indefensible, unnecessary shambolic bunch of insanity. Of course there will be work arounds but WHY?

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 02:45:55 pm
content: I have nothing to add to the tariff story that you haven't already heard. But I really enjoyed all of the photos of the Digi-Key plant (and history) in the npr story.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 03:21:28 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 01, 2025, 01:45:46 pmWrong. They have a warehouse in Canada 100%.

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 03:51:10 pm
content: DigiKey has regional support centers in various locations like Israel, Germany, the Netherlands, China, India, Hong Kong, South Korea, and Japan- all these locations stock significant quantities of parts.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on May 01, 2025, 03:21:28 pmWhere in Canada is that warehouse? Thief River Falls, MN is only 70 miles south of the US-Canada border.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on May 01, 2025, 12:14:29 pmLooks well organized to me:https://hts.usitc.govI mean sure, if you wanted to figure out what's going on by stopping your CNN news channel and frame capturing it, it's a mess.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:39:14 pm
content: If Digi-key falters, as a result of the current situation. I suspect, a lot of people/businesses, both inside and OUTSIDE of the US. Will be very disappointed.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on May 01, 2025, 03:51:10 pmRegional support centers are not distribution, that's done only from Thief River Falls.The closest I've seen to Digikey parts warehoused in Japan is from Maruetsu in Akihabara, but they stock their own parts separate to the Digikey catalogue and simply drop-ship from Digikey when you order Digikey parts from Maruetsu's 'extended catalogue'.But this requires ordering through their website, you can't buy Digikey parts in-store. There is no Digikey warehousing here in Japan.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 06:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on May 01, 2025, 03:51:10 pmAll these locations stock 0 parts because there is no warehouse.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 06:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on May 01, 2025, 09:00:30 amPro tip: it is smart to read an article before commenting on the thread that discusses it…

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 07:11:03 pm
content: I will openly say I voted for Trump, but I do not like these tariff wars. You can't just flip a switch and *POOF* we are making stuff in the USA. It isn't just rubber dog shit, vital electronics (as we all know here) and even VITAL medical/pharmaceuticals are made in China or the precursors are made in China. Would be so much fun to lose the most of our medications around the world :/And IF we just HAVE TO have all these tariffs, every penny collected should be going to small mfg companies (the mega corps are the ones who put us into this mess) as grants, and MAYBE give low interest loans (un-forgivable; they MUST pay it back) to large companies to build new facilities.Or get rid of my income tax. I'll take either.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 07:12:13 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on May 01, 2025, 01:02:05 pmQuote from: jwet on May 01, 2025, 03:51:10 pmQuote from: asmi on May 01, 2025, 03:21:28 pmNope. Until they added on the “marketplace” nonsense, they proudly made a point that they only have one fulfillment center for the whole world.Even now, they still say that in slightly different words:https://www.digikey.com/en/help-support/delivery-information/digikey-locationsays:“DigiKey's headquarters and product distribution center is in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, USA. DigiKey is an authorized distributor whose core product is stored, packed, and shipped from our world-class facility in the United States.”Center, not centers. And by “core product”, they mean everything that isn’t marketplace, which is drop-shipped.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 07:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 01, 2025, 04:09:41 pmLife is too short to be arguing with a random stranger who refuses to recognize what everyone else can easily recognize.You win. The grass is blue and the sky is green.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 07:57:43 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 01, 2025, 11:09:28 amI assume that every shipment has a record of the tariffs that applied to it. For sure, their systems will track this. (They do it anyway for stock management purposes, since you want to keep stock fresh.)It’s just like how your stock brokerage knows not only how many shares you own of a stock, but precisely what you paid for it, because they keep records of every transaction. They have to do so, so that when you sell a share, they can calculate (and tell the government) what your capital gains/losses on it were.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 09:41:20 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on May 01, 2025, 03:21:28 pmIt literally says on the order where its shipping from, why would you think its Canada.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:02:07 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on May 01, 2025, 07:57:43 pmExcept you have a million types of "shares", and their subtypes with different tariffs paid. Also it's not like you're just shifting digits on a computer, there a physical items attached to them. I don't see how this is legally possible other than saying to the government agencies: "trust me bro, this cut tape with ten 1k resistors, for which I ask tax to be refunded, certainly came from this 100% tax reel, not that 0% tax reel stored 2 inches away". Just storing differently taxed subtypes of the same part in a way to guarantee no intermingling is a headache of itself. Not to say it can change on any day on a whim.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 05:36:33 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 01, 2025, 09:41:20 pmI've received a number of DigiKey orders that came from Canada.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 06:20:21 am
content: Quotei am guessing that is why there is moremarketplace productsthese days

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 09:20:28 am
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on May 02, 2025, 05:36:33 amIf it was actually the case, they could easily bring a truckload of packages over the border and submit it to the shipping company in Canada.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 11:30:28 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 01, 2025, 11:02:07 pmI don't know why you're acting like this is something outlandish, it's just an extra field in the database. I guarantee digikey already knows what reel your cut tape came from. And all taxes already run on the "honor system" (with threat of audit). It's a mildly complicated calculation but one they're largely already doing.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 11:33:32 am
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on May 02, 2025, 05:36:33 amNo, you just mistook the customs clearing point for the shipment origin.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 11:49:25 am
content: Quote from: jduncan on May 02, 2025, 11:30:28 amYeah, I really don't get this whole crying.It takes "2 seconds" of compute time a day in total, because they already know the country of origin.And then they complain that they don't know how to do their bookkeeping, something they already do.And then they say maybe they have to move to Europe, where they would need to do the exact same thing. But as an added complexity in a different language.And it's not even them who has to pay the tariffs.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 12:02:53 pm
content: I think people are missing the major issue in the article:QuoteIf the bolded part is actually true, then that's going to be a massive hit to Digikey's business. I had no idea so much of Digikey's sales were international. Importers outside the US will immediately switch to other distributors.I don't think Digikey will go out of business, they still have their US customers to fall back on (US customers will have to eat those tariffs no matter what). If Digikey collapses, then that probably means the entire US economy is collapsing, in which case all of this is a moot point.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 02:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 01, 2025, 11:02:07 pmHuh? No. When you order from DK, you know exactly what lot your shipment is from. If it’s from mixed lots, they come in separate bags with separate labels. This is professional logistics 101 stuff.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 03:05:13 pm
content: Quote from: mtwieg on May 02, 2025, 12:02:53 pmWell, one saving grace for DK, Mouser, and Arrow is the fact that, except for Japan,allof Texas Instruments’ distributors are US-based. I assume large manufacturers that buy direct from TI won’t be affected, but for prototyping and small runs, it’s all through USA.(I think DK still does TI’s low-volume distribution, so ordering from them directly likely would change nothing.)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 02:24:59 pm
content: Quote from: mtwieg on May 02, 2025, 12:02:53 pmTME is not filling this gap yet.In Europe at least, the US owns the market. This is a problem. We're royally screwed.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 10:16:59 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on May 04, 2025, 02:24:59 pmAgain, I'm surprised to hear this. I assumed much of EU was handled by Farnell, RS, Arrow, etc.One would hope sanity would prevail, but I also don't think the current admin would think twice about screwing the EU for a quick buck.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 05:53:51 am
content: Quote from: mtwieg on May 05, 2025, 10:16:59 pmOf those you listed, none of them are headquartered in the union anymore.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 am
content: People act like tarifs are permanent, they are not. Tariffs are tools used to make business deals, and better deals we desperately need. The US pays more in tariffs than any other country and it's time that changes. Try buying a US made car outside the US, it ain't going to happen, yet foreign auto manufacturers can sell their junk here for next to nothing. Most of the cars on our streets are foreign, let's see your streets! We patrol the oceans, we fight everyone else's battles, and what do we get in return? F***ed at every turn.It may not be as easy as flipping a switch to produce things domestically, but if nobody acts, that switch will never get flipped. It will take time, but it's worth it to start manufacturing here (as you should do in your country).Eventually, if a deal isn't made, China (or whoever) will have so much stuff that their only option will be to lower the prices to offset the tariffs so people start buying again (and they can afford to do that). Tariffs should go both ways, and as a US citizen, I want to see reciprocal tariffs on every tariff put on us. Our biggest export is our cash and our biggest import is junk thats a year from a landfill. Don't blame us for wanting a better deal. Casting blame on the first President we've had with an actual sense of business strategy isn't the solution, so suck it up lol.And that digikey news article, NPR news, the address bar was about as far as I needed to go. When clicking on the link, I was shown a popup that the "current administration" is trying to cut their funding, and I couldn't be happier. NPR news is extremely biased and everything they say is manipulative. The article makes it seem like Digikey won't survive this, and if you believe that, I will be taking bets.China can make a $1200 smart phone for $15, and we pay the $1200 every time, so if raising the parts cost of your build by 50% breaks your business, you probably weren't doing that well from the start.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 08:03:16 am
content: Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amIt is just amazing to see so many wrong facts in such a short text.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:17:14 am
content: You called them facts, not me lol.Im not here for a popularity contest, im just tired of seeing our money go out for junk to come in, and if people have to suffer for our country to start making its own quality stuff again, im fine with it. China wants this country to burn. They send their drugs, they send their garbage/dangerous products, they just don't care about the US, and honestly, I would like to see all trade with them completely stop.This thread starts out as "this isnt political". Yes it is. Digikey made it political by crying to their liberal friends at NPR. Digikey isn't taking a hit, the small time builders like those here are. The people making things that actually make digikey money won't stop making things because the parts represent a small fraction of the product price.. This may hurt the hobbyist or those making small quantities of products, but that represents a small fraction of digikeys business.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:22:59 am
content: I'm amazed people on this forum, who I expected to have at least finished college, take the tarrifs propaganda like truth.Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amSometimes tarrifs are temporary. They are a delicatetool for governmentto protect their internal market where that is required.For example, the EU tried to use tarrifs to ensure existing domestic produced solar panels could still compete with Chinese imported (or dumped).Key point here is existing. Tarrifs can be used to protect existing economies, they cannot be used to create economies. Not alone at least.Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causationOur streets is also foreign, we're getting more and more Chinese cars on the streets here. But they were always foreign! Italy, Germany, France, Japan....Your domestic market produces for your domestic customers. But there are "big"(pun intended)culture differences that would make your traditional vehicle undesirable in other markets. (for example your trucs, vs our trucks)If your manufacturers decided it was worth it to export, they could do this. But for some reason they don't want to adapt to this market. In fact, Mercedes Benz produces their largest cars (GLE...) in the united states. (Americans eagerly buy large cars) Such that, if a European wants to buy a large Mercedes Benz, some will be imported from the US.Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amAs I said, tarrifs are a delicate tool. If you push too hard the subject squeezes out and you're out of grip. Over-regulation is a problem and can yield the inverse outcome.Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amSomeone not from China may think like this. China does not depend on the US market. Yes, some economic damage perhaps, but opportunities for others.Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amGovernments are supposed to create a neutral media landscape. Funding all political sides is a part in that. Even those media you do not agree with.If Digi-Key loses 50% of sales, they also do no longer need 50% of order pickers. Who buy 50% less groceries, and go to restaurants 50% less.Thief River Falls IS DigiKey if you've read the article. The Cascade is real. Ask Wolfsburg.Or more relevant, Detroit.Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 07:13:54 amSmartphones is not the business that is being targeted.I will not discuss what I really think about the tarrifs on this forum, as that is a whole other speculative/conspirative (depending on which side you're on) topic that is not actually allowed on this forum by the rules.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/One the largest culture differences is that many smaller US based companies do not tell they are in the USAS on their About Us page with their address.Too much exposure to this culture can yield an uncooperative world view, from that perspective I can understand your comment.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:25:49 am
content: Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 10:17:14 amYour earlier post indicated you believe they are facts. This later post of yours indicates you think they are "alternative facts", a DoubleSpeak term if ever there was one.Which is it?Are you just trolling?

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:26:09 am
content: You make good points, im just frustrated. Sorry

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:28:40 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on May 06, 2025, 10:22:59 amTariffs can also be used to distract the media's attention away from other actions the government is taking. The other actions are more destructive - and cannot be instantly reversed on a whim.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:38:22 am
content: Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 10:26:09 amThat is only human and I understand that.In hard times we must be careful not to go to opposite extreme.It is too easy to do so, and there are always those that benefit from people being desperate and/or frustrated.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:39:20 am
content: even on ebay some added 20-25% on their prices loll

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:41:24 am
content: Our government does not need to distract the media with tariffs, the government controls our media just like in china. You don't have to live here to see that.. I've had two lithium batteries start on fire in my house, a battery pack and a tablet, both from china. They send us dangerous things intentionally, just like the concrete they build with over there. China has no regard for human life, including their own, and I would like to see them do their own thing for a while. Everything they make is cheap. Look inside a cobra 148gtl cb radio. The china ones all use 1/8 watt resistors and the pass regulator is on the steel because aluminum all the way around cost too much. Those savings are not passed on to us. I did get trollish, went on a little rant, but I feel better now. Im just saying let china keep their junk, we will manage.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:49:24 am
content: Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 10:41:24 amWell, that's another irrelevant rant. I'll ignore the obvious point that "buy too cheap" == "buy crap", and concentrate on your first sentence.You really ought to read what the people behind the MAGA 2025 campaign have been openly stating for years.Second paragraph ofhttps://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/16/media/steve-bannon-reliable-sources/index.htmlFirst three paragraphs ofhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/media/stephen-bannon-trump-news-media.html?smid=pl-shareParagraph starting "He leaves the room"https://web.archive.org/web/20181206164352/https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-09/has-anyone-seen-the-presidentAnd that's merely the first search results ofonehigh-profile person. You also need to look at what the people who try to keep out of the limelight say and do; they are frightening.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 10:57:49 am
content: Saying China intentionally sends you dangerous stuff is foolish.You, and only you, decided to buy it and pay for it.You think you can do without stuff from China?I don’t, but you (not me) will see the truth in some months.It’s no less than a boomerang for the US.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 12:21:52 pm
content: Quotemaybe if you produced something suitable for the market people might be interested ,however a 3 liter tank that does 15mpg aint gonna do it,and remember many of those iconic brands like dodge and jeep are european owned,were do you think there profits are going to get stashed?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 02:10:21 pm
content: Perhaps we can move the discussion back to how it impacts digikey and other electronics supply chains?To not go down the distraction conspiracy rabbitholes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 06:20:57 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on May 06, 2025, 10:57:49 amThis is awildlyuninformed statement.Chinese suppliers are famous for continually "optimizing" your design/formulation/specsafteryou signed off on them, causing future shipments to drift farther and farther away from what you signed for after receiving the sample. This caneasilylead to a product becoming dangerous. If you notice and tell them, they just say "Oh, we just optimized, we thought you'd be OK with it." and undo that change, but then do it (or something else) later. They might offer a discount, they might not.This is why western companies have their own employees in China who keep close tabs on their suppliers, visiting them constantly, checking product constantly, so that they can reject bad product before it leaves the factory. A few Chinese companies have specialized in actually providing what they are contracted to do, and they charge a premium for it.Check out the book "Poorly Made in China" for an insider's view on how it works. It's fascinating.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 08:50:06 pm
content: Tooki;Thanks for the book recommendation.Went to Amazon and started reading the book reviews. They match several of my personal experiences.They are actually very clever when they cheat on you. I have a great story that will post later.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 08:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 10:41:24 amHey, I would be all in favor of developing stringent standards on battery pack supply chains. We don't have to wait for China to decide unilaterally to improve (why would they when we keep buying from them?).Look at the EU, they are at least trying. This is hard. It's complicated. It takes time. It's not something the US can be expected to accomplish, unfortunately.QuoteSo are you implying thatlife is cheap in the Orient?Really?

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 09:10:00 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on May 06, 2025, 10:57:49 amTo play devil's advocate, I don't think blame can be solely placed on the consumers.Are we to blame for asbestos in our homes?For leaded gasoline?There are hazards that the vast majority of people simply cannot detect until the damage is done. That's where the state has to intervene.But these tariffs are not about public safety.

author: Fflint
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2025, 08:57:27 am
content: Quote from: antenna on May 06, 2025, 10:41:24 amSometimes it may look intentional, but I always lived by "never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity" and it always turned out well for me.Take Baofeng 5uv radios. I live in the EU and I have two of them. I saw a video of a US based ham that measured spurious emissions of few of them and it was horrible. To the point that could get you fined (justifiably so). Basically the harmonics were almost as strong as the base signal.So I quickly checked both that I have. They are both fine. The harmonics are 5dB over the noise floor on my SA or some 45dB down. Fine.So I started wondering why, especially that other people from the US wrote about their bad experiences on the forums. And I think I've got the answer. The 220mhz band. There is no such amateur band between 2m/142MHz and 70cm/430MHz in the EU and China. So I bet they designed their output filtering based on that. Then someone decided to allow 220mhz band for US use they remove these filters or they make them necessarily a lot worse (as they use one filter for all bands). The result? Horrible spurious emissions.Was it intentional or just stupidity? I guess the latter.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2025, 05:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: Fflint on May 10, 2025, 08:57:27 amOh, I've seen this probably a thousand times now. FW engineer not understanding that actions have consequences and too sure of themselves to even ask.If you want to see someone's brain freeze, tell a FW engineer they cannot do something. XY is not supported by this HW, you cannot do that.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2025, 06:38:05 pm
content: My guess is those americans are only going to trow the trump guy out of office when it's too late.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2025, 08:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on May 01, 2025, 09:00:30 amDigikey has an own airfield and an area for tax-free import/export routing of goods for shipping to customers outside of US.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2025, 08:59:36 pm
content: Do parts suppliers apply tariffs to parts that arrived before the tariffs started? Do they figure that because they need to restock after that it should be applied, or do they wait until that supply is gone and only apply the charge to the items that arrived under the tariff?

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2025, 12:41:45 am
content: Quote from: nightfire on May 11, 2025, 08:36:15 pmAccording to the NPR article, "many" of the new tariffs will affect these goods too, and those tariffs won't be refundable. I haven't been able to ascertain any more details on this though

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2025, 09:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on May 11, 2025, 08:59:36 pmPresumably, Digikeys FTZ means they don't import the item into the US until you buy it, so they'd pay based on purchase date. Other suppliers may or may not work the same way.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/digikey-new-tariff-status-sorting/Other retail companies definitely can raise prices in anticipation or in advance of tarrifs, they don't want to get caught with orders that lose money, etc.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2025, 09:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: mtwieg on May 06, 2025, 09:10:00 pmOh yes they are! There is a 20% tariff that Trump is charging China for their production, distribution and exportation of the precursor chemicals that are used to make Fentanyl.Over the weekend, the US and China agreed to lower their tariffs to 10% on each side but the US is still charging China the additional 20% for the damage caused by Fentanyl so the US tariff on Chinese imports still stands at 30%. IMO that tariff will continue until China makes very significant efforts to stop the flow of Fentanyl into the US, even if it's coming in via third countries such as Mexico or Canada.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2025, 09:41:41 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on May 12, 2025, 09:33:34 pmDon't forget: normally tariffs are set by Congress (or is it the Senat?), and the president, T'rump in this case, can only impose tariffs in cases of emergency. Hence he had to find an emergency, and he chose fentanyl.Now fentanylisa major problem that needs to be dealt with, but the tariffs won't do that until cartels pay taxes! Fentanyl ispurely an excuseto enable T'rump to be able to impose tariffs.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2025, 11:54:07 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 12, 2025, 09:41:41 pmI was reading about this recently, a pretty significant amount of this trade has nothing to do with cartels. Whether you ascribe it to a state sanctioned attempt to disrupt the US or purer/simpler regional corruption is another matter. Fentanyl (and other modern designer drugs) is produced in China by companies that make no attempt to hide what they are doing, boast about their capabilities to package these drugs so they get past customs and even manufacture them inside state facilities such as prisons. Which is all pretty shocking and clearly something China can tackle fairly easily if they wanted too.Of course the question why ordinary people are turning to the grey/black market sources to source opioids & what country/sector/policies created that problem in the first place opens a whole other can of worms. Fentanyl cut into cocaine by cartel affects a whole different class of people who matter less in the world of american politic.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2025, 12:10:50 pm
content: QuoteIf fentanyl starts appearing in cocaine it most certainly will have an impact on the political classes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 10:20:35 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on May 13, 2025, 12:10:50 pmI’m pretty sure it has. Street dealers don’t always properly clean their mixing utensils when adding in their cutting agents, so fentanyl residues may remain and get mixed into other drugs. (I mean, no dealer would knowingly add fentanyl to cocaine, since adding a CNS depressant to a stimulant reduces the latter’s effect… right?)

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 11:10:21 am
content: Quote,indeed not,well not unless there serving up speedballs

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 11:30:31 am
content: The locals have reported fentanyl in their meth here in Minnesota.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2025, 07:27:40 pm
content: Quote from: SMTech on May 13, 2025, 11:54:07 amThe Fentanyl thing is such a red-herring. A tariff will not prevent even an ounce of precursor product. The only way to do that is to vastly increase incoming package inspections. This means several things: 1) vastly growing the number of inspectors in a fairly short time (something that goes against the current direction in US government employment), 2) creating an inspection process that allows inspecting packages and 3) significantly increasing the shipping delay due to inspection. There is likely a 4th result - increased costs as they will likely charge for the inspections. Given all those, I doubt it will happen on the US side. I believe the intent by the Trump admin is to force the Chinese to fix the Fentanyl precursor problem but I am skeptical that will happen. There may be a few high profile actions but nothing permanent.