DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter with changeable cables - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ffookkaa11
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 11:20:34 pm
content: As many of you, I have also bought this DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter.... and also, as many of you I want to change, or better to say upgrade the kelvin leads that came with the meter ... the one with the alligator clips (see below).Now comes the idea. I want to use different shaped and sized clips (at least 2-3 different clips) with the TL-21 "adapter" and thought what if I do that by cuting off those ugly alligator clips and puting at both ends some type of female connectors. Then make those 2-3 different kelvin leads with male connectors at their ends and any time I want to use different shaped/size clips, I simply connect the desired kelvin set through these connecors together (the wires and the shielding too).What would you guys suggest, what connectors would be good to use for this project that is not too bulky? How would you guys do this? Any other idea?Thanks

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 02:11:29 am
content: You will need some sort of triaxial connector (or you will need to break out the leads in each cable into two biaxial connectors). This will allow you to run the Force/Sense/Shield for each cable. All three will need to be connected in this case. No one has tried this before and you MIGHT introduce additional capacitance (not sure if it iwill be too much for the meter to handle, you likely can only determine that empirically).

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 02:31:09 am
content: I think most agree that the alligator clips on the TL-21 adapter could have been done a bit better and I do recall somebody else modifying this unit and adding better quality leads and clips, pretty sure there is also a 4 x BNC modification floating around somewhere but it looks rather clunky, to use a number of various test leads you may also require the unit to be run through the calibration sequence on each occasion, I do this religiously when swapping between the TL-21 alligator clips and the TL-22 tweezers.I looked at doing a similar modification using either mini XLR or microphone plugs and sockets along with some good quality two core shielded cable which I have at hand, I simply got side tracked with other projects and never got around to ordering the kelvin clips, anyway I probably should follow it up as the meter is now in constant use.

author: ffookkaa11
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 05:53:23 am
content: Yep, the calibration has to be done after changing sets, that is clear, but I am lookig for a good, usefull solution for this rather than buying additional 2-3 pcs. of TL-21 and making all of them with fix connection.

author: alfa
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 08:05:54 am
content: I have desoldered the genuine clips of my TL21 and replaced them with kelvin clips bought on Fbay. (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/LCR-Meter-Test-Leads-Lead-Clip-Cable-Terminal-Kelvin-Probe-Wires-w-4-BNC-/251680384557?hash=item3a9951e62d:g:FlgAAOxyeZNTU9mr).Just needs recalibration after that.Works great.

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 09:15:46 am
content: I've make the modification on mine to the Kelvin clips from eBay, you just have to made the short, open calibration after the mood.I made it following this video <> or also look in this blog <http://dexterslab2013.blogspot.pt/2016/01/der-ee-de-5000-kelvin-clip-conversion.html>, it works very well.

author: ffookkaa11
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 11:16:33 am
content: Thanks guys for these modifications, but my question goes for using only 1 TL-21 and 2-3 Kelvin clips. Meaning using the TL-21 with some type of connector on that that allows simply changing Kelvin clips (of course after changing leads new calibration is needed, that is clear).If I would buy for the 2-3 clips 2-3 TL-21 adaptors, there would be no question.The question here is how to make this with using just 1 TL-21 adapter and 2-3 separate Kelvin leads!? What options could be there for making this, with what connectors, or what other usefull options could be out there for making this possible?

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 08:44:46 pm
content: How about the ol' DIN connector?The max. frequency is only 100kHz, so you could really use any connector you want.

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 08:52:37 pm
content: It's better to use BNC connectors, small cables x4 out of the TL-21 with 4 BNC connectors, then you just attach whatever kelvin clips you want, not how much stray will be add to the measuring with it.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 10:49:19 pm
content: I was looking at using these full metal jacket mini XLR plugs and sockets pictured below to maintain full shielding if possible, they are not cheap so making up a couple of lead sets is going to be rather expensive and again the method used in the video is still probably the best for those on a budget.The other option was using microphone plugs and sockets as these are much cheaper and I'm sure I have seen micro sized versions of these more like a mating DC jack or simply purchase a couple of the TL-21 modules as it is less mucking about.

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 02:32:51 pm
content: Just did the 4 wire upgrade. Works fineNo more frustration trying to fit components between the original tiny clips...Leads from ebay.They were a bit misaligned but if you bend only the metal tips slightly, they work great.Cables soldered from the underside.They also included a PCB for SMD component testing and they covered it with a sticker. Go figure.Photo of the back side of the PCB.

author: fitch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 01:26:37 pm
content: Where do the cable shields terminate on the clip end? Are they connected to anything?Thanks.

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 01:58:57 pm
content: No, they are used only for shielding.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 05:40:50 pm
content: Quote from: hgg on May 23, 2016, 02:32:51 pmnice job! Looks really good.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2016, 09:11:16 pm
content: QuoteThat's exactly what I've build. I use a short 4-wire cable connected to the TL21 box, with a LEMO connector on the end. Different component connectors are used via a small interface box, each with a small LEMO connection bus.

author: fitch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 05:30:43 pm
content: Does anyone know the purpose of the PCB in the top half of the TL-21? I'm curious!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 09:46:30 am
content: IIRC, it has SMT test pads on the top side. It gave the capability to quickly test the small SMT devices without the need for test leads.Fraser

author: fitch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 12:09:55 pm
content: Forgive me for being so dense, but it does not appear from the pictures that the little PCB is even connected to anything, or am I missing something? Is it intended to replace the other (non SMT) PCB when testing SMT components? Alas, much of this will become clear when my DE-5000 arrives from Japan!Thanks.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 02:40:36 pm
content: The SMT direct connection fixture has not been offered as a module. As such the OEM has not connected it up to the I/O terminals. No idea why this feature was deleted. Maybe it introduced measurement errorsWhy the OEM chooses to still fit the unused PCB is also a mystery. Maybe just s a filler to set the correct label level ?Fraser

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 12:38:05 am
content: Quote from: markce on July 22, 2016, 09:11:16 pmLEMO connectors are fantastic

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 11:42:36 am
content: QuoteIt works very nice for more than a year now.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 11:50:02 am
content: I love LEMO and Fischer connectors. Sadly quality costs though. Some of my thermal cameras use LEMO plugs that cost £45 eachWhen I see a LEMO or Fischer connector on equipment, I get a good hint that the designer and manufacturer was thinking quality, rather the low cost when building the unit.Fraser

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 01:35:17 pm
content: I also mod my TL-21.I bought extra TL-21 and replaced alligator probe with clip hook probe.Pretty handy for me.

author: jonstomlin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 02:13:33 pm
content: How is the durability and long term reliability of the DER EE DE-5000? It seems fairly popular. Thanks for posting this upgrade!I'm thinking about picking one up.

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 02:39:16 pm
content: Quote from: jonstomlin on August 04, 2016, 02:13:33 pmUm, well, I bought the DER EE DE-5000 only because of the price.Of course, when I hold them on the hand with Agilent/Keysight U173*C series, the U173*C felt much better equipment at the store in Akihabara.However, I did not feel any guilty when I made the mod on the probe of the TL-21. That is the one of the benefit of cheaper goods.By the way, if you buy DE-5000, it is good to do the CAL every time when you turn it on. It is a hassle, but it gives much reliable numbers.

author: jonstomlin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 08:36:58 pm
content: Sweet! Thanks for the feedback

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 10:32:15 pm
content: QuoteNot needed on mine, unless battery is weak or I changed cables.PM.Make sure you're TL21 leads are Ok.

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 10:55:45 am
content: Quote from: markce on August 05, 2016, 10:32:15 pmCould be because I keep changing my probes before I turn on my DE-5000. I did not meant to write negatively of DE-5000.I am pretty satisfied with the DE-5000 for my usage, mostly using measuring capacity and ESR of capacitors, and in inductance of inductors.I am not using much of it for register some how.These are the probes I using.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 10:33:05 pm
content: I have mine positioned right next to my breadboard area, and use the builtin component fixture to quickly test and determine the value of discrete components before inserting them into a breadboard.What I don't like is the LCD which is very dim and difficult to read - compared with the VFD and TFT displays of other instruments.Turning on the backlight doesn't help much, since it emits a faded blue light that doesn't improve contrast much over the black lcd letters. And even when the meter is powered by an external DC source the backllight turns off automatically after a minute of inactivity which is incredibly annoying.I'm wondering if there may be a blue tinted filter in the LCD assembly that could be removed, to improve the situation.

author: et328
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 07:22:07 am
content: Quote from: julian1 on August 20, 2016, 10:33:05 pmSame problem here, also I hate how wobbly the stand is. About the LCD, lately I have wondered if a bias resistor value change would help, has anyone tried to find out? I'm talking about this stuff:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-898-lcd-contrast-experiments/

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2016, 08:51:36 am
content: Are there any multimeter-like probes with Kelvin connection that can be used with this LCR meter?

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 11:48:41 am
content: There's no separation between current and sense. Adapters plug into the the test fixture which is +Ve, -Ve, and guard .

author: blackbird
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 12:58:14 pm
content: Quote from: julian1 on September 16, 2016, 11:48:41 amAs far as I can see, the connectors for the spades as those for the jacks are split. Each connector socket has a seperate sense terminal so my guess is these are true Kelvin connectors.In a teardown by PedroDaGr8 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-ee-de-5000-unboxing-and-teardown/msg482026/#msg482026) you can see the split terminals.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 10:21:10 pm
content: Quote from: blackbird on September 16, 2016, 12:58:14 pmI think the test peripherals have the 4-wire, but inside the box that connects to the meter they are tied together? Looking at the red/white wires from one alligator clip they appear tied to a single spade terminal.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 11:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: julian1 on September 16, 2016, 10:21:10 pmThe spade is actually a double sided piece of PCB. Each side of the PCB is isolated from the other, allowing you to make two connections with one spade. As a result they are isolated from meter into the wires.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 11:57:33 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 link=topic=68281.msg1028365#msg1028365Thanks for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense!.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 09:55:23 am
content: I just ordered an extra tweezer adapter to modify and I already have the LEMO connectors..... Time to make some more versatile leads for my DE5000. Thanks for this thread as it has brought this job to the top of my 'to do' list