Altium Buys Upverter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 07:28:17 am
content: So, yeah...http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20170828/pdf/43lt5y1mslmxbc.pdf

author: peekpt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 03:11:28 pm
content: I just received an email from upverter ! woohoo!

author: Eternauta
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 03:44:25 pm
content: I get thi email:Upverter Joins AltiumI have some very exciting news: We've been acquired by Altium, a leading provider of design software for the electronics industry.Our mission at Upverter from the very start has been to make hardware and product design approachable for everyone: to make hardware less hard. To empower engineers, makers, hobbyists and students by equipping them with world-class technology through an intuitive user experience. We believe the best design tools fade into the background, freeing designers to be truly creative. And over the past seven years we've gotten really close to realizing this vision. We've built the world's most sophisticated cloud-based, collaborative hardware design tool. We've helped more than 45,000 people design more than 80 thousand devices.But we're not even close to finished yet.Altium shares our vision for a powerful, collaborative new style of product design software. Free, but powerful enough to design a real product, accessible-to-all, cloud-based and collaborative, and maybe, most importantly, incredibly intuitive, helpful even, and easy-to-use. If the world is going to design millions of new IOT devices over the next decade then it needs a new style of design software. These devices won’t come from the CAD world. Their tools are unapproachable, they feel old, and they were made for a different reason - made for professional, trained, and experienced electrical engineers. These devices need a different approach - they need product design software made for everyone else. A new style of design software made for the new generation. Made for the masses.You may have noticed that today we removed our paid professional account tier. From now on the best, most feature-full, most powerful version of Upverter will be our only version. It will always be free to use, for everyone, from anywhere. Regardless of whether you're a professional electrical engineer, a maker, a student, a hobbyist or anyone else, you can now design your product, your hardware, your IOT device, your PCB - completely for free using Upverter. Unfettered access for all.I want to emphasize that we aren’t making Upverter free for the sake of free, and we aren’t making Upverter free because Altium doesn’t care about it. It’s exactly the the opposite. We believe that this new style of design platform is so valuable, and so necessary, that making it anything other than free would hurt the world, limit our growth, and prevent our vision from being realized. Between Octopart, which provides free electronic component search and discovery (joined Altium in 2015) and our experiments with EEConcierge, which provides paid design services on-demand, inside your design tool (think of it as in-app purchases), we have come to the conclusion that indirect monetization is the future. We think it’s the right way to both make money, and help designers produce products - without getting in their way or limiting them - and we’re betting on it going forward.It gets better.The team that built Upverter: Steve, Mike, Francesca, Carmen, Ryan, Patryk, Yashwanth and me - the entire team - have joined Altium, and we're continuing to work on Upverter in the hopes of making it so much better. We're going to be growing our team too, investing even more into making Upverter both incredibly powerful, and also incredibly easy to use. We have a grand vision of making it possible for our users to design more than just a PCB - a complete product: system design, schematic, PCB, enclosure, mechanical, firmware, software, BOM, manufacturing, etc, etc. Soup to nuts. All through Upverter. All collaborative. All easy to use. Unified product design.We’re joining forces with Altium because we think we can move faster, innovate faster, and grow faster together than we could apart. The most important thing is a world filled with thousands, and thousands of new IOT devices and products - and that you bring your product to life. We’re partnering with Altium because it enables us, to enable you, to make that world a reality - better than we ever could on our own.Thanks for all of your support over the years. Your feedback, your trust, your amazing projects, and your love fueled us. We got here together - and we’re so deeply grateful for that. I’m excited to open this new chapter with you - we’re going to do so many remarkable things together over the next few years.Zak, Mike, Steve and the Upverter Team

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 04:04:12 pm
content: Free to use only on the cloud it seems?Fuck all clouds! Hate these nonsenses...Y.

author: peekpt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 05:27:43 pm
content: Who cares that is in the cloud, it is the best of all, you can download all files various formats 3D files included!I didn't get involved with the service because it was way expensive and the free version was very limited ( 2 designs ). Now we all have awesome online FREE EDA!

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 06:28:21 pm
content: QuoteSane people?

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 07:10:30 pm
content: Quote from: peekpt on August 28, 2017, 05:27:43 pmPeople who actually make money with their designs and care not to have them stolen.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 07:37:44 pm
content: My designs are my and will be stored on my computer and my hardrive. Why should they be in some damned cloud I have no control of? Regardless if I make money from them or not.//EDIT: Stored, not stolen.. was just thinking about them stealing my designs, when I was writing...

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 07:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on August 28, 2017, 06:28:21 pmPrecisely. Cloud = short term, building on quicksand with the odd whirlpool of disaster that you have zero control over. Local control (I include in that perpetual licences, no phone-home licensing, no enforced "upgrades") means -you- can maintain and fully control your development and product lifecycle, not some dick head fly by night VC tw@t.Cloud might work for students on an eight month life cycle project, but not for real products that need to have a degree of stability and longevity, even a couple of years.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 08:29:30 pm
content: I'm suprised cloud anything and software as a service nonsense has lasted as long as it has...I keep waiting for one of big players to close shop and have millions of customers loose all their data, with no notice.

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 08:41:31 pm
content: Why should they close? They get a steady revenue stream. Not like those vendors selling perpetual licenses that will have to close down when their software gets too good. Or always invent new dumb addons to keep selling new versions.

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 09:23:50 pm
content: QuoteBecause as far as I'm aware, more and more clients put terms into contracts that prohibit the storage of assets on servers not owned and operated by the company itself. Or just as bad, clients with NDAs make it pretty much impossible to use cloud-based software since the NDA is violated when the software stores assets on the vendor's cloud system. If this mentality becomes more widespread, companies may lose a significant chunk of business from this issue. And no, encryption doesn't help. The contracts I've seen explicitely mention the location of the storage - and I'd agree. Who really can guarantee that the keys to the kingdom are safe?https://www.directdefense.com/harvesting-cb-response-data-leaks-fun-profit/is just one of the incidents that show that vendors cannot be trusted.More on topic, though: I'm honestly sad to see Upverter be acquired. That means it'll be closely tied in with Altium products and no longer available to the general public (without cloud, I should add).

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 11:49:38 pm
content: Lol at doofuses complaining about cloud services on a cloud service....It is what it is, and yeah I agree, free cloud cad isn't about to kill altium or any other on computer design software for serious paid design work (especially not in Australia, thanks to our internet killing pm) but who cares?I've been watching upverter for a while and seeing it pivot into more of a pay for footprints service, and expecting it to die for a while... I expect altium didn't pay much for the company, And expect its main purpose in acquiring upverter was to get the developers and some IP or patents... I do think this deal will keep upverter alive longer that it would have otherwise, as last time I checked it really seemed on death's door..... but for how long? Altium doesn't have the best track record with acquired products.For more people to pick it up and use it under the current situation, I think they would want to see solid export capabilities into a format that at least has a chance of being able to turn into another programs format later.If that happens, it would become another good open source project system... And if it learns to import AD projects well, I'd be keen to publish things on it in future.My biggest worry for upverter's future is that it's the direct competitor to circuit maker.. doesn't make a lot of sense for altium to keep both of these, long term. And circuit maker is the same codebase as CS (and soon AD). Maybe soon we will see custom component design purchase options in the rest of the altium tools?

author: Quarlo Klobrigney
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 01:57:48 am
content: I agree....

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 07:27:37 am
content: QuoteThere's a few subtle differences:a) I do not require a permanent connection to the EEVBlog servers to earn my bread.b) Worst case scenario if the EEVBlog goes down: I lose a forum and a means to chat with a few people. Worst case scenario if a cloud service is inaccessible* to me: I lose lots of money, time and access to thousands of man hours of work.c) If Dave starts charging money (that I can't afford or choose not to pay) I'll just bugger off. If, say, my CAD company will decide to increase the prices beyond what I can afford, it is for all intents and purposes lost to me.d) The 'cloud' is the only way to do things like a forum, a chat space and such, by definition. This is NOT the only way to do professional bloody software!e) If my ISP has a week long breakdown, in a forum I'll miss a few interesting rants. I lose a week of productivity when dealing with CAE software....Basically, in the cloudonly-and-mandatory CAD/CAE model the customer always gets the risky and shitty end of the stick. I'm OK with the software occasionally connecting and cloud-ish features, but the damn thing must be able to work without these features.* - It can become inaccessible due to any number of reasons, ranging from the their side economical ones (provider goes belly up, provider gets acquired by someone else who discontinues or changes the service beyond usability, provider changes the licensing to something silly), my side ones (for whatever reason I can't afford another monthly/yearly license, I move to some place where the internet is beyond shitty, my ISP has a failure)...And these are only the normal-world-mode-of-operation scenarios. Imagine:Imagine stuff like inflation going rampant in one part of the world, while not going rampant in the providers part of the world. ~500 USD/year (for eagle) translated at current exchange rates I could afford. ~500 USD/year at insane post inflation rates, not so much.Political change? Imagine one country (provider or customer) getting cut of from the Internet by internal or external reasons.I'm pretty sure that with a little imagination you can think of dozens of scenarios where you get screwed. If you get locked out of a forum it's not the same as when you can't access your drawer where you keep your hammer, screw driver and soldering iron.Basically what I'm trying to say is that clouds work well, provided that everything else is working VERY well. I would greatly prefer not to take that risk.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 08:49:16 am
content: Why would they keep Circuit Maker going now?And as far as I've heard, uptake was bugger-all anyway.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 09:08:01 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 29, 2017, 08:49:16 amI'm a CM user and, well, I don't think I like it anymore.The cloud libraries are just too slow and clunky to use. CM would be great if you could use local libs, but I guess that's what Circuit Studio is for....I may wait a while and try upverter (after next update) and hopefully if Alitum pull the plug on CM they'll let us export to Altium or CS.But yeah, agree this looks like the end....

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 11:05:47 am
content: Quote from: daqq on August 29, 2017, 07:27:37 amyes yes. we understand that you, as well as the others above who complain loudly about cloud tools are too professional and your work is too important to ever use cloud software for any reason.But surely someone as professional as you understands that still doesn't make upverter's offering irrelevant to everyone in the world for any purpose at all?:-)ANYWAY... having a bit more of a think about this situation, my prediction for upverter is 1-2 years.I expect Circium Studigner 19 will develop a new feature where you can pay a mechanical turk to generate IP for you - to start, schematic part/footprint data on demand, like upverter have already started.Soon after that has happened, all upverter users will get an email with some bad news about their cad tool being shut down, but good news that all their upverter projects can be migrated seamlessly into a nominated Circuit Maker account, and they will become free CircuitMaker users and access the free circuitmaker features to match their old upverter features, plus have access to the new IP marketplace feature in CM!Then, if Altium's people have any vision at all they'll start to grow capabilities - schematic development, modifications, checks, DFM evaluation/modification for given manufacturing processes, possibly code for a HW design, maybe even design consultations for specialist areas like RF or low noise - And all pay for jobs, at 3rd world prices, with a generous percentage on top going to Altium... Think of it like upwork, but all from the Altium interface, with a specialised workforce, standardised procedures and offerings, and seamless sharing of the project data to be worked on.And professional (first world) Altium users will eventually become project managers, looking after the definition of features and responsibility for the overall delivery of a project, while spitting out pieces of bit-work to other people who complete and others to check at a price that they couldn't ever hope to compete with.... Might be a bit boring, but hell, we'll be *soooooooooooooooooo productive*

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 11:08:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 29, 2017, 08:49:16 amIf it's the same codebase that also spits out CS (and, I assume, the new AD18) I think they would want to keep it.Especially if they can work out a way to transfer the upverter users to CM.

author: koko79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 02:04:11 pm
content: So Altium now has 6 PCB tools??Altium Designer, ATINA, PCB Solidworks, Circuit Studio, Circuit Maker and Upverter??How many of these use the same GUI?Upverter used to have a page slagging Altium off lol

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 02:59:34 pm
content: Quote from: abraxa on August 28, 2017, 09:23:50 pmOr the customers will have to ease it off if they want anyone to actually work on their stuff. Always a balance...

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 01:11:07 am
content: That's IoT bullshit right there. I smell it. Collaborative software, good just for very simple designs. Not a productive tools for professionals.How they expect to make any money ?

author: expinkolator
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 01:41:19 am
content: Upverter already have some connection with Altium. There are several videos about an Altium plugin or something on their youtube channel.They have a bunch of videos about using upverter most of which have less than 100 views which gives a good indication of how popular and valuable upverter is.

author: techietommy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2017, 02:48:53 pm
content: I used Upverter for a while before switching to CM. It will be interesting to see whether or not the two will be integrated together, or whether they perhaps make Upverter into an online version of CM. I think Upverter will benefit greatly from a larger team, the deal breaker for me was how buggy their software was, and how often it would crash.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2017, 04:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: abraxa on August 28, 2017, 07:10:30 pmMore over, it's simply unreliable.I had to many issues with cloud based software.If you just have tiny bit of issues with your own internet connection (which happens from time to time), you are screwed.Which sometimes meant, wasting a full day.For workers/freelancers who are traveling, it's even worse.