TV Periodically Draws Higher Current When Turned Off - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 02:37:01 pm
content: Recently we used one of those "green" power saving strips for our TV and other devices. It has two black colored outlets that are always on, one black colored outlet that's always on but is the control, and three green colored outlets that turn on when the device plugged into the control outlet turns on.The TV is plugged into the control outlet so when the TV turns on, it powers the devices plugged into the green outlets. I've noticed the power strip will sometimes become activated when the TV is off. Knowing the TV is what triggers the outputs, I plugged a power measuring device into this outlet and the TV into it (the power measuring device measures voltage, current, power, etc... depending on which option is selected).When the TV is off, the phantom current is approximately 20mA (although it seems to fluctuate between 13mA and 20mA). At random times I'll hear the power strip become activated indicating it "thinks" the TV is on and saw the TV is drawing 200mA without being turned on. After a few seconds it returns to the 13-20mA range.This TV remote also eats through batteries almost monthly (I've since removed the batteries and only install them should I need it). I don't remember how much current the remote draws when not in use, but remember based on the the Duracell (or Energizer) graph for AA or AAA batteries (whichever are in the remote), the current draw measured equaled the life expectancy shown on the graph.Does anyone know why the TV would randomly start drawing 200mA when not in use (and multiple times a day)? I'm wondering if it has something to do with trying to communicate with the remote, but nearly a 1/4 of an amp is a waste of electricity and seems silly these companies are suppose to build energy efficent electronics, yet, sell stuff that draws excessive power and eats through batteries.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 03:08:27 pm
content: Smart TV trying to phone home?

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 03:20:57 pm
content: Most likely something to do with that. It is a smart TV, however, not connected to the Internet.What reason(s) would it have to do "phone home" throughout the day/night when not in use?

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 03:21:59 pm
content: Transmitting the captured audio signals ;-)Or looking for software updates every six hours

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 03:36:16 pm
content: Remember, best I can tell modern software/firmware is not polished and tested on all edge cases, especially ones that makes the manufacturer less money, it's written on a short schedule by an undersized team and shipped.Would not surprise me if the thing was so stupid it kept looking for a connection you were expected to set up, especially if this is a lower end smart TV.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 03:49:50 pm
content: Not sure what has been implemented in the US, but the TV set may also be receiving digital side-channel information over the air -- program schedules for example. Maybe it is updating these periodically in advance, for your viewing pleasure.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 05:20:29 pm
content: would be helpful to know the brand/model of the tv ? and of the smart switch...

author: MarkT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 05:28:08 pm
content: Quote. For a few seconds several times a day - that's nothing, perhaps 100µA more to the average 20mA...Its probably phoning home to upload data about you! Just turn off at the wall when not in use, simple, and protects somewhat against lightning damage too.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 05:43:56 pm
content: Quite a lot of TVs used to have terrible consumption if you enabled certain features. Things like over the air TV schedule updates. This was dumb, because those things only needed to be scanned for infrequently, but the TVs just went into a fairly high consumption mode continuously. Newer TVs seem to have fixed this, and just look for updates in short bursts. The manual for our 1 year old LG's still talks about possible high consumption when certain features are enabled. I've monitored its consumption, and they really don't have much overall effect. They just consume in infrequent bursts.One dumb thing is the smart remote control for an LG TV does everything but turn on/off the TV by radio, but turns the TV on/off by ye olde worlde IR method. This is really annoying, as our TV has an AV receiver sitting in front and below the TV, that just obscures the IR receiver. So, we have to hold the remote control high up, pointing down, to turn the set on, then everything else is controllable comfortably. If you have 2 screens within range it gets really annoying, as the IR is not selective, but the radio functions are. So two remote controls control 2 side by side screens independently, except for turning them on and off.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 03:45:22 am
content: The TV is Toshiba 43 Inch TV - Model 43LF621U21.I'm uncertain how many times it draws 220mA (give or take) in a day, but I've witnessed three in an evening.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 12:53:22 pm
content: I used to have a non-smart non-internet connected TV in my bedroom that used to turn on in the middle of the night almost every night for no apparent reason. But then I found out that the internet connected BluRay player it was connected to was getting updates in the middle of the night. The player would get an update and run it but it output a signal to the TV that made the TV think that it was supposed to play something so it turned on. But the player wasn't actually outputting any audio or video so the TV only showed a blank screen. I finally disconnected the BluRay player from the internet and that stopped the problem. I only used the player as a player but it had the ability to steam from Netflix, YouTube and other online Pay per View trash, hence the internet connection.I HATE these GD internet connected devices that are constantly updating themselves without my consent and with NO apparent benefit to me!Also as a previous poster already stated, most (all?) modern electronic devices claim very low power consumption but that only occurs with very specific and very rarely used configurations and if you turn on just about any feature, they will consume much higher power than what their advertisements claim.To add: my current TV also talks to it's remote control! I have no idea why it needs to talk to the remote but occasionally it will tell me that it can't detect the remote and tell me to press the main button on the remote. When I do, it detects the remote and all is well. BUT the really strange thing is that I ALWAYS use the remote to turn the set on and to control it! So I use the remote to turn the set on but then immediately the set can't find the remote.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 01:04:25 pm
content: Could it be the remote that has a fault and is intermittently transmitting codes? Would be easy to diagnose, hide the remote in a different room for a while when not using the TV and see if the fault continues.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 03:09:39 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on January 29, 2024, 03:20:57 pm"No internet connection" will probably not stop the scheduler (cron job) from powering up the system, check for updates, and then go back to sleep.The "phone home" is usually done for update checks, maybe for updates to lists of satellites or TV/radio stations.If it's a nifty new one, maybe some "in screen menu" advertisements are downloaded as well. Isn't technology advancement great?

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 04:11:59 pm
content: My TV remote has the batteries removed due to eating up batteries monthly.Periodic update checking seems to be the logical explanation. As mentioned, my TV isn't connected to the Internet, but, as pointed out, this doesn't stop the TV from checking.As for power consumption being low, 200mA for a short time isn't much, I agree, but it's certainly phantom power that when multiplied by the number of times in a day, times the number of TVs across the country/world doing this, etc... it accounts for contributing to wasted power.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 06:29:58 pm
content: How much current from AC mains does a typical step-down switching 5V standby circuit use ? I need to make a permanent fixture, for easily and safely pluging in and measuring mains current.Then for the TV, yeah some STBY idle current, some other ilde currents here and there, an LED or 2, and it would be into the ten's of mA I guess.IDK what any chips would be doing, be some SMPS will cycle between different duty cycles, and modulate that on/off, like burst cycling, it's called something like that.Depending on the idle resistor's/bleeder resistors etc, maybe you could get a 10-20mA difference, IDK. Ok but not 200mA, thats huge.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 08:55:47 pm
content: My Sony TV every few hours a relay clanks loudly and power consumption jumps to 15W for a few minutes. Then clank and back down to near 1W.So I disconnect power when I'm not using it - all the widgets, firmware are old and useless, no updates so it has no Internet connection.Smart TV surveillance has been a thing for many years. Don't worry- it's spying on you and sharing data with third-parties. Many brands.Class action lawsuit gotdismissedin 2018."A New Jersey federal court has dismissed a proposed class action lawsuit against multiple “smart TV” manufacturers alleging that their televisions improperly collect information on what customers are watching on their screens. The court held that the collection activities described in the complaint did not violate the Video Privacy Protection Act (“VPPA”) because data points such as IP address, MAC address and WiFi access point are not “personally identifiable information” within the meaning of that statute. The court also held there was no violation of the federal Wiretap Act because the manufacturers were a party to the transmission of programming through their smart TVs."Samsung 03/2023 lost appeal over monitoring Internet streaming usage. The microphone part in their privacy policy is creepy:"please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured and transmitted to a third party through your use of Voice Recognition."Vizio also caught spying the fine was $20M I think.https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/lg-samsung-sony-class-action-alleges-smart-tv-privacy-violations/

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 11:42:35 pm
content: Oh I didn't realize it was to that level with TV's listening to people. I've owned some of the last CRT TV's, but since then I think I just used my computer and internet for video's.I have no plans to get a modern TV, but I wonder if it will get to the point, where you can't even watch a new TV, with say a DVD player, without being connected to the internet or cable company. I bet some TV's will be like that.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 02:25:37 am
content: Quote from: MathWizard on January 30, 2024, 11:42:35 pmNot just TV but many appliances and automobiles are headed in that direction. "Wireless connectivity" is going to enable manufacturers of every stripe to force internet connectivity ontoeverybodyeventually, even those that don't have their own internet access.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 02:32:04 am
content: Also some of the newer OLED TVs will also run a procedure to help remove burn-in when in the "off" position in addition to all the other ethernet stuff.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 04:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on January 30, 2024, 12:53:22 pmThis is a huge PITA aspect of HDMI devices. When they are configured to turn each other on and off it can be a nice convenience. However, when you get quirks it can be very hard to figure out what is causing them. My AV receiver kept turning off every 30 minutes. Eventually it turned out to be a configuration issue in an attached Android based streaming box. Turn on the AV receiver. That turned on the box. That started a 30 minute timer. That turned off both the box, and the AV receiver. Simple once found, but it took bloody ages to find that timer buried in the menus, and disable it.