Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:44:30 pm
content: These scamers are now trying to sell an everlasting USB charger, from a website that redirects to Facebook orbo.comAnd there's someone crowdfunding to buy one to bust :http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:18:05 pm
content: OK, so 1200 Euro for a charger that gives "One tablet charge per day"Assuming a 5Ah battery, let' say 25Wh per day. Give them the benefit of the doubt and say 50WhTypical UK mains electricity cost £0.10 per kWh, so £1 is equivalent to 20 days' Orbo chargeSo payback time approx 20,000 days, about 50 years...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:32:59 pm
content: So here's my guess in the unlikely event that they so actually ship something.It's a box full of batteries, with a circuit to limit discharge to their "one tablet per day" rate.And a warranty that's slightly shorter then the battery life.And probably some weasel small print to somehow avoid criminal fraud charges.Seems like they aren't so keen on actually taking real orders.....Fromhttp://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/Quote

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:42:03 pm
content: I know a couple of people who have spent about 2k euro on machines which raise the ph of drinking water.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:46:55 pm
content: Wow, after all this time, they are still at it? I guess they probably don't have any other choice as their reputation as some kind of engineering company was destroyed the first day they started this BS about a perpetual motion machine.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 10:11:09 am
content: They would need >10kWh to charge an average tablet once a day for a year. A 10kWh battery is not that small, but the price range, if not the size, does suggest a humongous battery of some sort. Large lithium batteries have special shipping restrictions, so it'd be interesting to see them get caught if they try to hide that fact...

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 10:32:37 am
content: Check it with a Geiger counter! It might be a surplus Russian RTG.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 10:42:31 am
content: The Whack-A-Mole of the over-unity community!They won't ship. If they do, it'll get torn down and the game will be up.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 12:15:22 pm
content: Hm. I have a powerbank out of 4 18650 cells, that can charge 3 phones on one charge.The thing weights 250g, and is 154 cm^3 in volume.Assuming a warranty period of 14 days, that gives a device of 3.5-4 kg and 13x13x13 cm in size.Ain't exactly large, but bigger than what they show.Price would be in the $1 for the controller + 14 x 4 x $0.7 = $41 if using recycled batteries, or 14 x 4 x $8 = $500 if using new ones.Quite a bit of a profit margin.Sounds plausible, i guess?Quote from: Ian.M on December 09, 2015, 10:32:37 amDoubt it - these things weight 0.5-1.5 tonnes, and put out 50W when fresh.They are typically used as laptop chargers by northern deer herders, and aren't exactly easy to come by after the initial grab in the 90s.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 01:58:18 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 08, 2015, 09:32:59 pmLinked from the boingboing ishttp://dispatchesfromthefuture.comwhich has more detailed detective work, well worth a read. Basically Stoern described it to shareholders as a cells constructed out of 2 (dissimilar?) metal films with an electret material. These don't charge your device directly as they can't deliver the power, but are used to trickle charge a lithium pack which acts as a reservoir.Later though, when questioned on Facebook the reply was:Quoteand my favourite quote:Quote

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 03:34:33 pm
content: I watched the shareholder video and Shaun seems to repeatedly assert that the industry standard failure rate of consumer electronics is 25% without giving a timeframe and also admits that half of that 25% is due to physical damage not component failure. When asked about product lifespan, he clings to the 1 in 4 failure rate when managing expectations of how Orbo will perform, he expects the lifetime of their bit (presumably the orbo cell?) to be many many years, but the other electronics "will break".QuoteSo yeah, they could ship a box of batteries and if it doesn't last 12 months then you can ship it back to Stoern under warranty and theyrechargerepair it for you. On a less skeptical note, are there engineering tradeoffs in batteries which would give much higher energy density than lithium but with the downside of minimal power delivery or does the chemistry just forbid it?

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 06:06:11 pm
content: Cringeworthy, almost parody like.I don't think they can pull off a "put loads of batteries in a box scam"If you take a battery with an exceedingly high capacity of 19Ah:http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/d-batteries/7020830/The average mobile phone takes 3.5Ah, you dont even need the back of the envelope to see that size and cost is prohibitive even if your target was for the battery to last a few months before running off.I think their goal is to find some rich fool(s) to perpetually bankroll "research" because sure as hell if they ever sell a product the game is up.Unfortunately there are plenty of people willing to believe this stuff,

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 06:11:10 pm
content: Quote

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 06:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on December 09, 2015, 06:11:10 pmyep, they dont need to sell any products at all... just keep finding new investors

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 12:21:14 am
content: http://orbo.com/now has a shopping cart for their Snake Oil, but the charger is apparently sold out...Maybe here's the get-outQuoteThe laws of thermodynamics would be beyond their control (and probably comprehension as well)

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 03:53:08 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 08, 2015, 09:32:59 pmHa, that was my guess too! A custom-built battery with enormous internal impedance. That way it's impossible to rapidly test the total stored energy (by heavy load etc.) You could short it, and it still might take a year to run it down to zero.Actually this has a history.It's the Alessandro Volta perpetual motion scam of 1802! Volta himself was a "free energy" believer. He was certain that his Voltaic Piles were based on "contact electrification" and not on chemical reactions, and they would operate forever if he could just get rid of that pesky corrosion problem. Many experts of the time were confused about this, especially after experimenting with dry-electrolyte batteries, the DuLuc or Zamboni "dry piles" using thousands of layers, with dry paper as the electrolyte. Such a device could put out microwatts and drive electrostatic motors. Simple calcs show that they'd do this for several centuries before their plates finally corroded away.See, it's the same scam: immense series impedance lets the battery keep working, but it prevents any quick measurment of net energy storage. It's perfect for "powering the controversy." It might go for centuries!Steorn just has to word their guarantee so that, if their infinite-life battery fails after ?months?, then it's the user's fault.The central idea here is that there's no such thing as an insulator. Materials are either electron conductors (metals,) or they're ionic conductors (electrolytes.) Glass, plastic, rubber, if they have any mobile ions at all, and you deposit a thin film of the material between plates of two differing metals, you've got a battery. It's internal resistance might be megohms or gigohms, but it's still a battery, and can (slowly) charge up a capacitor etc., as long as the capacitor dielectric has higher resistance than the "electrolyte."

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 04:27:36 am
content: You mean like this?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_BellCharging a phone/tablet/etc. requires many orders of magnitude more energy though...

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 05:39:21 am
content: Quote from: amyk on December 24, 2015, 04:27:36 amNot true, since the stored energy is proportional to the grams of metal in the active plates. Imagine a group of AA alkaline batteries with volume similar to the Oxford dry-pile. Of course the energyrate, the peak watts of a dry-paper electrolyte battery is many millions of times lower. But the energy density might not be that far different. Also, rechargable cells typically store fewer joules than primary batteries of similar volume, since the rechargables must include inert plate-supports which take up space. A primary cell like the dry-pile's (and perhaps Steorn's) can fill that same space with zinc, lithium etc., and let it be consumed entirely, running for twice as long in the process.If the Steorn battery device is ?10x ? larger volume than a typical tablet battery, then we might expect to get at least that number of tablet-charges out of it before the active metal is consumed, the thing goes dead and the scam is revealed. Heh, I wonder if their batt-stack uses lithium thin films?!Odd thought: what if the Steorn device includes a rectifier effect, and the electrolyte is inherently piezo? Whacking the thing down on the tabletop might inject energy of fractional-joules scale!In that case, carrying it around in a backpack for weeks might make it last far longer than if it was carefully supported on a soft pillow at home.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2015, 05:15:01 am
content: Quote from: Towger on December 08, 2015, 09:42:03 pmJust put a teaspoon of baking soda in it. About 50 cents a box, probably good for 100 glasses.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 12:26:21 am
content: I felt like doing a little more back-of-the-envelope maths:Assuming this device holds 10kWh of energy, that's 36MJ. Its volume is around 1L, so let's say its energy density is 36MJ/L.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_energy_densitiesDiesel fuel: 35.8MJ/LJet fuel: 37.4MJ/LGasoline: 32.4MJ/LLithium primary: 4.32MJ/LInterestingly enough,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E2%80%93air_batterygives up to35.21MJ/L... so it could be possible the Orbo is just a gigantic metal-air primary battery. That makes a bit more plausible, but still not completely believable...

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 02:48:24 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on December 25, 2015, 05:15:01 amSame thing, on the box level, works great in my pool. In the mean time, people with pools half the size spend 10x as much as I do on chemicals each summer, yet my water chemistry is always spot on.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 03:46:03 am
content: Recent article about their financial status (I think they just released the 2015 accounts)http://www.businesspost.ie/steorns-deficits-rises-to-e21-million-in-most-recent-accounts/And Steorn are suggesting orbo might actually be shipping real soon now:Quote from:whatever that means!?

author: McBryce
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 11:23:25 am
content: Looks like they've just started shipping:http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.htmlYay! Free energy for anyone with €1200!McBryce.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 01:11:53 pm
content: Leave her alone! Don't you see she's hot?!

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 01:41:50 pm
content: must be the worst produced video ever... i like the way someone is eating their dinner over the audio!but it purports to show theirmagic beanstechnologyhttps://youtu.be/0cR7wRDPcHU?t=16m23s

author: McBryce
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 03:24:52 pm
content: Looks like it's a grab from some sort of online interview.What I want to know is why (like a well known battery extender company) they decided to associate their product with a monkey. That can't be a coincidence!McBryce.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 04:10:55 pm
content: I believe the above video is a call last year with the shareholders. It was leaked pretty soon after.There is an article and video posted today by the Irish Times who do a fairly good job of examining the whole smoke and mirrors marketing approach employed and spoke to a real physicist for opinion. It of course has various Shaun McCarthy misdirection quotes as usual.http://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/fact-or-fiction-irish-firm-invents-everlasting-battery-1.2506832

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 04:30:45 pm
content: if i had the money i would buy one to just take to bitsmaybe Dave should get his viewers together and crowdfund a purchase of one?

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 05:06:26 pm
content: I think there are several people who have ordered one for just that reason and are waiting for them to be shipped out.the one which was crowdfunded in Finlandhttps://mesenaatti.me/en/steornin-ikiliikkujatekniikan-tutkimusprojekti/see alsohttp://dispatchesfromthefuture.comhttps://orboblog.wordpress.com

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 05:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: rich on January 25, 2016, 05:06:26 pmthanks, will watch and see what happens!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 08:51:15 am
content: Apparently they've delivered something... My money's on a box full of batteries and potting compound, with a current limiting circuit.http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 10:16:36 am
content: sounds like a complete farce shipping with missing components!hopefully someone will pull one apart on camera

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 10:38:29 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on February 09, 2016, 10:16:36 amAnd if they can't get it apart, I think Mike wouldn't mind getting one... he has an x-ray machine.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 10:57:46 am
content: Whether it works or not, there's something quite cool about putting a battery charger in a box with the face of Probes, the monkey

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 02:42:18 pm
content: "my Ocube had inadvertently been shipped without the Li-ion battery in it"So his newer post suggests that Steorn swapped the lithium reservoir battery for a 5F capacitor during testing and accidentally shipped it to him in that state. The whole e-cat website seems to be mostly about supporting a cold fusion project and his newest video on orbo doesn't fill me with hope that there will be any real scientific rigour in his evaluation.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 08:34:46 pm
content: The simpsons did it first.https://youtu.be/gOMibx876A4

author: neil555
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 02:41:16 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on February 09, 2016, 10:38:29 amMaybe we should all chip in so Dave or Mike can get one to play with, i'd gladly donate $10 lol

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 09:08:45 pm
content: I don't believe Steorn have any intention of letting them get into the hands of competent reviewers given their shaky start to shipping rivals the baterroo brothers efforts.After shipping a grand total of 2 units, Steorn halts shipment saying that the internal battery is being over charged to 8V instead of 4.2V and they need to mod and retest all the units(fromhttp://dispatchesfromthefuture.com)How the..? What the..? All part of the Steorn Subterfuge Shuffle imho.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 10:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: rich on February 10, 2016, 09:08:45 pmNot really. It's part and parcel of any free-energy scam out there. "We have it, almost! We just need to fix X!"By shipping something they can fool the idiots by saying "But look, it's real, we ship something!" just to invoke the previous statement therafter. After all, we all make mistakes, right?Greetings,Chris

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 10:18:08 pm
content: So anyone know anything about this reviewer guy?Is he acting as (or perhaps unknowing being used as) a shill?

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 10:23:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 10, 2016, 10:18:08 pmJust look at his YT channel to see where he stands. He believes in LENR and the Rossi e-Cat crap, so there... Also explains why he is reluctant to really open up the unit.Greetings,Chris

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 10:34:52 pm
content: Quote from: mamalala on February 10, 2016, 10:23:55 pmDon't want to see behind the curtain!

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 12:23:50 am
content: Quote from: mamalala on February 10, 2016, 10:16:44 pmThat's sort of what I was trying to imply by "subterfuge shuffle". Ship a broken product and then shuffle the "facts" around to suit whatever their latest goal is. Admittedly isn't a unique strategy invented by Steorn.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 12:44:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 10, 2016, 10:18:08 pmGiven his utter incompetence at opening the enclosure, zero scientific method and no evidence of a basic grasp of engineering principles then I can't see how he wasn't hand-picked by Steorn to receive one of the two that have left Dublin. Interesting that the 2nd unit's whereabouts is currently unknown to the internet.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 12:58:08 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 11, 2016, 12:44:02 amThe second one is probably the one that guy gets because the previous one was "wrong"Greetings,Chris

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 12:59:38 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 11, 2016, 12:23:50 amUnderstood. Just wanted to point out that this is the usual modus operandi. Although you have to hand it to them... They really bothered to actually ship someting, which by itself is rather rare in this field.Greetings,Chris

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 02:08:12 am
content: Yeah, I suspected you were right about the 2nd unit being the replacement, so tried to verify whether that was the case. The DFF blog notes the Steorn email is worded such that the incorrect unit isn't part of the 2 'shipped' units."We have shipped two ocubes and have received reports back that the lithium ion battery in the devices is charging to somewhere in the region of 8V"All part of the obfuscation maybe?

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 02:11:55 am
content: I just noticed that the thread has "Stoern" instead of the correct spelling "Steorn" in the title.More obfuscation, so that the thread doesn't show up in searches for "steorn"?

author: Don Hills
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 02:29:02 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 11, 2016, 02:08:12 amWhat do you call a single Li-ion cell charged to 8v instead of 4.2v?A conflagration?

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 02:32:24 am
content: Quote from: Don Hills on February 11, 2016, 02:29:02 amI was about to say "an explosion", because I had never seen that word before...but then I looked it up, and yes.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 02:54:39 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 11, 2016, 02:08:12 amHaha, there is a problem already. Charging a Lithium-Ion cell to 8 volts vill surely guarantee that the case will open on it's own.... They are just full of crap.And of course, me saying that the second unit was the replacement for the other one was tongue-in-cheeks, in case that wasn't obviousGreetings,Chris

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 03:20:08 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 10, 2016, 09:08:45 pmThey shouldn't have put a Batteriser in...

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 03:34:23 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 11, 2016, 03:20:08 amNow, that's really a good one!Greetings,Chris

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 04:09:53 pm
content: QuoteYes, free energy will immediately increase the consumed energy, witch is mainly converted to heat.The new problem will be called "global boiling"QuoteWhat if this "group" are the real scammers?Invent a company, product, set up a fake sales site, and then crowdfund with the promise to send a DVD...C'mon,... researchers, PhD university, crowdfunding to get 1200 dollar together....they consume that amount every minute of the day.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 04:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on February 11, 2016, 04:09:53 pmSurely if somebody is able to invent a "free energy" device, they would simultaneously create a "null energy" device. The /dev/null to the /dev/zero. Once that's up and running, we can just dump all of our excess heat into it to push it into the quantum vacuum. Every device you buy would come with a free energy and a null energy pair, so it doesn't consume any power from nor deliver any heat to our universe.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 04:39:40 pm
content: I just realised how much I forgot from all this since university.... :-)Does the heat dumping process have a COP factor over 1 ?But it sounds acceptable, where is the buy-now button? :-)

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 10:00:28 am
content: And still the bullshit continues...http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/02/updates-on-ogirls-ophone-and-aclands-ocube-and-an-open-plea-to-steorn/QuoteSo they've spent all the cash they've conned out of investors, and still trying to spin it out long enough to get some more by pretending they have actually shipped something.Just how long can you string out a scam...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 10:59:14 am
content: Surprise, surprise, it's potted:

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 11:21:18 am
content: Dave, can't you get it x-rayed or scanned by one of those airport machines?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 12:05:47 pm
content: Dave doesn't have access to it. There is only one of theseOCube things in the wild.Honi soit qui mal y pense.Anyway, let's assume this is not a complete scam but uses energy harvesting to provide at leastsomefunction.Since there are no solar cells visible, they could use harvesting from WiFi or other electromagnetic waves.I guess harvesting to supply 1mW devices is somewhat realistic, so letting aside obvious losses, they could maybe harvest 1 mWs within a second without groundbreaking technology.-> 1h -> 3.6 Ws-> 1d -> 86.4 Ws-> 1w -> 604.8 WsA modern smartphone's battery has around 2000mAh at 3.7V -> 7.4Wh -> 26640 WsSo after only about 44 weeks, there would be enough energy harvested to charge a smartphone (well, no losses and so on).Now let's be absolutely optimistic and assume they could somehow harvest 10mW, it would still take more than 4 weeks to harvest enough energy to charge a smartphone.Taking into account the losses for trickle charging and the self-discharge of the battery/capacitor, the numbers will look even worse of course. Actually, probablymuchworse.So even assuming this is not a complete scam and they put some kind of state of the art energy harvesting technology inside, it's hard to believe they aren't aware that the amount of energy harvested is too small to be of any real word use that they claim.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 03:20:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 13, 2016, 10:59:14 amThis one is potted but when it left Steorn it was neither potted or unpotted. What's happened now Acland has opened the box is that the quantum superposition caused by orbo's time splitting technology has collapsed this one into a potted reality for us. Somewhere in a parallel universe is an unpotted variant being correctly evaluated using scientific methods.That picture is wrong in so many ways:Steorn were originally encouraging reviewers to tear it apart and test it, yet they potted itThis is the test unit with a 5F cap batt that wasn't meant to be shipped, so it wouldn't have been potted at allThose screw terminals! Amazing that they can create free energy but can't use sensible connectorsThe surface finish achieved makes it look like it was potted by the monkey chiefSomebody commented on ecat world that the pp3 sized cuboid, looks suspiciously like a pp3 battery**I'm not sure about PP3, it might be a 400F cap.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 05:01:16 pm
content: Definitely X-ray time... followed by some non-reversible disassembly.Some comments in the links posted suggest it's a nuclear battery - which would probably mean the latter shouldn't be done, but I doubt it's anything but regular batteries and some switching converter.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 05:12:10 pm
content: If it contained a nuclear battery it would have to be above ambient temperature. The lid is available as a control for surface emissivity so simply view it and its detached lid with a thermal IR camera.Next will be the kooks claiming that X-raying it will trigger the alien anti-tamper mechanism and release a naked singularity.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 05:13:07 pm
content: Definitely looks like two PVC wrap battery packs.Something like this, just half the size:http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-37V-10Ah-Lithium-ion-Li-ion-Battery-PVC-Wrap-eBike-/191580835274?hash=item2c9b1b8dca:g:SU8AAOSwBahVVgsKThe idea of the terminals is probably to allow charging when the device is sent back for service because of "malfunction" (i.e. battery is empty).The main question is if there's much else left in there apart from a converter.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 04:52:07 am
content: Yup the Steorn posted a video explaining the innner monkey workings.What a surprise, the electrets need a voltage reference of 18V which is merrily supplied by 2 x PP3 batteries. Now, I know what you’re all thinking, but Shaun assures us that they are just used as a zero current reference voltage. And to prove it there's a 1M resistor in series so it can't draw any. Then he mumbled something about 5 years.Other stats :20 Orbo powered phones or cubes shipped. The earlier email said only 2 monkey skulls shipped, so that must mean 18 phones40% Failed in service so far2 phones had detached speakers. 2 Monkeys had overcharging issues.[Edited to note that 40% of 20 leaves 4 failures unaccounted for]

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 06:31:14 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 13, 2016, 03:20:06 pmQuote from: rich on February 15, 2016, 04:52:07 amSo now we know what it is! 2 PP3 batteries that charge a few caps through an 1M resistor, so that when you leave it overnight after it went dead there will be some small amount of power back in the cap... except the "problem with their charge controller" is that the leakage current from whatever DC/DC they have behind to regulate the 5V output is greater than the charge rate so it stays dead

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 09:56:08 am
content: More bullshit that proves nothing, but might confuse a stupid person enough to think they have something.If someone did genuinely have something new, it would be hard to imagine a more inept way of demonstrating it than we've seen form these clowns, especially considering the amount of cash they've had so far.

author: Marcel_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 11:48:55 am
content: Yes! A new bogus video!https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/vb.217496297671/10153531949942672/?type=2&theater

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 12:18:53 pm
content: QuoteI don't know. I think people on the top of the society are equally exposed to scams, and I can name more than a handful of them.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 02:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Marcel_X on February 19, 2016, 11:48:55 amIf you are after amusing videos, there's a whole train wreck happening over on Acland's sitehttp://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/15/ecw-orbo-o-cube-testing-week-2-feb-15-post-questions-for-steorn-here/Lots of voices in the comments and, as to be expected, a very low SNR. Lots of ramblings and a few measurements with no conclusions. His unit is the one that shipped without the Li-ion battery and has since developed other faults, so whatever conclusions come out then Sheorn will just claim the tests are invalid because the unit was supplied faulty.Quote from Sheorn McCarthy:"Not sure to be honest, shorting the unit will have fecked the domains up, the purpose of the applied voltage is to keep the domains pointing in the correct direction (or rather encourage them to return after a discharge)"

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2016, 06:05:33 pm
content: just thought I'd google steorn (and ubeam) to be abreast of whether the penny has dropped for investors. Seems it did a while ago..from the website itself:http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/07/steorn-prospects-dim-investors-told-to-chip-in-more-or-lose-it-all/

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2016, 08:40:16 pm
content: And still it continues.....http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/09/mccarthy-re-emerges-exposes-break-with-head-investor-pat-corbett/

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 04:13:38 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 24, 2016, 08:40:16 pmWait a minute...is that really...*sniff-sniff* *doggy sniffs*CONTACT INFO!Voltamort says...ATTAAAACK!(looks like even some of the wankers are starting to riot) LOLZ

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 07:04:09 am
content: Any progress on taking the thing apart, maybe someone removed the potting compound?

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 09:35:08 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on September 25, 2016, 07:04:09 amdoes it matter? all it means is you find out which brand of bullshit they used in it

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 10:30:06 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on September 25, 2016, 09:35:08 amBut that's the fun part!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 10:36:27 am
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on August 26, 2016, 06:05:33 pmAh, the old "you'll lose it all" confidence trickYou've gotta wonder how much money this guy has siphoned off over the last 16 years? I'd be stunned if he's putting every cent invested back into genuine expenses.

author: batteksystem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 10:40:03 am
content: Actually with the size of his device, it is possible to build a strong enough energy harvesting device that able to actually power the phone. I don't think harvesting RF signal can give you enough energy, but with a phone you need to always carry with you, I think a mechanical device built inside (like a rotor in the mechanical watch) may give you enough energy for continuous operation.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 01:39:30 pm
content: Quote from: batteksystem on September 25, 2016, 10:40:03 amThat might work, IDK. But this one is potted (possibly also full of pot), so totally fake.

author: McBryce
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 02:56:52 pm
content: Quote from: batteksystem on September 25, 2016, 10:40:03 amYes, but his "Monkey head device" (What is it with these free-energy/battery things and monkeys??) isn't meant to be transported or get regular movement, it's a charging device for the home. They didn't even get moved in the post so far either.McBryce.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 04:47:20 pm
content: And it;s finally over...http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/11/steorn-liquidates/

author: xygor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
content: "Steorn has announced that they’ve laid off their staff, and are liquidating their assets and winding up the company."So it was a spring motor all along!

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 05:56:40 pm
content: 23 million eurothe better things that money could have been spent on!it makes me sad

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 06:40:14 pm
content: 23 million? Is that the going rate for monkey mould tooling these days?Do they have *anything* else to show for it?

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 08:38:06 pm
content: Well, don't forget all those 9V PP3 batteries! ... and potting compound don't come cheap either.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 01:50:49 am
content: QuoteA professional online poker player.You just can't script it can you. Thats effectively what the past decade was about, bluffing his way to investors money. Con-man or idiot? Well, surely an idiot can't manage to get such investment?.. then again one managed to become president of the United States.. Con-man? not sure, instinctively I'll say yes immediately, but I'm often surprised by the tenacity of the so-called 'free energy crowd', many genuinely believe it, which is why they get so defensive when you call them on their bullshit. A true Con-man purposefully distorts the truth - or rather what her/she believes - in order to gain something.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2016, 12:54:56 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 17, 2016, 04:47:20 pmThe greatest dodgy product long con ever?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2016, 01:02:47 am
content: I wonder what the liquidators would take for the useless Orbo tech?

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2016, 05:47:23 am
content: people will scam for money wherever they can, its a very shameless thing and if i ever get across anyone who does it they will come across the worse possible death.Regarding orbo's statement you cannot manipulate time or create energy with magnets, for that you need gravity and gravity effects can be measured. The closest thing you can do to the creation of energy isnt exactly creating energy, rather making use of quantum states and the devices by no means makes use of such. With magnets they actually do lose energy as the free flowing electrons lose their energy( and change states) if you do manage to get any energy from using magnets whether kinetic or magnetic thats why theres such a thing as a magnetiser and demagnetiser (as shown on dave's tutorial video on equipping a decent lab). So if you're still trying to cling to the hope that its not a scam dont bother, theres no science behind it and if you keep trying to scam rich people they're going to look at the less rich in a less preferable way and will be less likely to spread their wealth.I know there are many products for the rich but none of the money goes into the right hands. The scammers will keep on scamming for their own private yacht and the luxury companies will keep paying their employees minimum wage.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2016, 06:06:31 am
content: Offer them $10, probably the best offer they will get.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:46:52 am
content: Shareholders meeting in a couple of weeks time to appoint liquidators, although reports suggest they may have cleared the office out in a hurry as they left.From:http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/12/a-visit-to-the-former-steorn-office/someone went down to check out the building and then bumped into a film crew from RTÉ doing a piece on Steron's company history and follies:The RTÉ segment is at:http://www.rte.ie/player/gb/show/prime-time-extras-30003379/10660352/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:56:23 am
content: Quote from: rich on December 11, 2016, 01:46:52 amSo can't someone one of those unpotted batteries and reverse engineer it? They had hundreds of them ready for production.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:29:44 am
content: The blog post just says:QuoteSo we'll have to wait and see, maybe Shaun's keeping them all safe for the liquidators, or just safe from being inspected and exposed for what they are.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 07:47:58 am
content: There is a video on YouTube someone took in their offices and warehouse a while back. There was nothing of value in it except one single oscilloscope and a drill press. The rest was misc office stuff equipment. It did show a magical insulated box and some sort of induction heater setup, but this looked more like something the liquidator would end up having to skip to clear the building.Edit: Add Link.https://youtu.be/j-_vPLtgwJc

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 10:07:59 am
content: Quote from: Towger on December 11, 2016, 07:47:58 amWell, to be accurate thats a mill in the workshop and some sort of incandescent (halogen tube) heater in the testing hall.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:20:26 pm
content: 2012 video is way out of date (the empty space got filled later). Somewhere above I posted the irish times video tour from earlier this year if you want a more up to date glimpse.But really it's orbo cells and cubes that would be interesting to see. I think they also had a some HV power source for their magic electret charge.Edit to add: Any induction heaters may belong to Steorn's spin-out company HephaHeat.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2017, 10:24:23 pm
content: Assets for sale by liquidator :http://www.cooney.ie/cooney_item_page.php?id=126

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 02:04:28 am
content: So did quantas magnets on youtube rip off these guys? A scam scammimg a scam?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 06:54:59 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 20, 2017, 10:24:23 pmWow... that's a very, very odd selection of equipment indeed. What on earth did theythinkthey were making?

author: sdancer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 09:00:43 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on May 21, 2017, 06:54:59 amVery clearly something involving medieval body armour

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 09:18:50 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 20, 2017, 10:24:23 pmWhy did they need a DPO7104 1Ghz scope?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 09:44:02 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 21, 2017, 02:04:28 amIt says voluntary liquidation, which means they decided to wind up the company. Their stuff is on the site because used Cooney to sell all their assets.All we can do is guess at why they decided to pack it in: perhaps they weren't making enough money or they feared legal action from those they ripped off and wanted to quit while they were ahead?

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 10:13:12 am
content: OH NO, how could this happen?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 04:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on May 21, 2017, 06:54:59 amNothing, they just needed stuff that looked techy and uncommon enough for whoever visited their place to really "believe they were on something very special"... and some engineer got to fulfill his wet dream of owning that 1GHz scope with the investors' free money.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 04:38:28 pm
content: Like the armour, though i guess it will not exactly protect you from the angry punters who gave you money though.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 07:01:36 pm
content: I often wonder how people get so wrapped up in something that clearly doesn't work. Is it the chance of getting rich? Not all of these investors are stupid, I wouldn't think. Some times people become so deluded with money that they start believing their own lies.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 07:04:43 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 21, 2017, 07:01:36 pmMany are. Last week I read a soccer player got scammed out of 3.5 million because he trusted some random guy with a good story. You don't need to be smart to earn money but you have to be smart to keep it.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 07:56:59 pm
content: Combination of investor who's looking a bit too much for a good opportunity but isn't very technical, and charismatic pitcher who's good enough at praising their thing that is so "revolutionary" that it's normal the investor doesn't understand or find doc becasue it's new, exclusive and complex so you won't find that knowledge anywhere else etc...I've seen both types and it's no wonder that when you get a matching pair it ends like this.One characteristic trait of the pitchers is they are naturally "borderline", and to someone really smart anything they say can be exactly equally interpreted as a real genuine thing they completely believe in or as a total scam. It depends on the listener's mindset, I am pessimistic and the typical "no faith in humanity" type of guy so I tend to go with the scam side (and probably missed some opportunities because of it), but most of the investors will be the positive, enthusiastic type who are just looking for the little spark of hope to move ahead (and they'll throw themselves in scams because of it since they'll find it in those pitches).

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 01:16:40 am
content: I wonder if those "Orbo cases" are actually empty... also the thought that they might become rare collectors items in the future, for the same reasons Victorian-era quackery is (somewhat) today.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 04:03:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2017, 09:18:50 amIt's not about *need* there, amigo. That collection is just nuts.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 06:51:22 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 21, 2017, 07:01:36 pmMonorail, MONOrail, MONORAIL!!!People are easily hooked.

author: McBryce
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 07:12:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2017, 09:18:50 amThey had a Picasso Lithograph, a suit of armour and a robot arm and you are wondering why they needed a over speced scope?McBryce.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 07:33:13 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 21, 2017, 07:01:36 pmReflect on what it means to be an investor.You supply money to a myriad of possible markets. It is physically impossible for you to understand all of them in depth (or you're the one single person in the world who is totally amazing, but there aren't very many of those). If you're wise, you'll at least do some superficial research on where a given market is going. But many probably don't have the time for that, or they simply don't bother. (90-10 rule: most of them will have more dollars than sense.) Or if you don't have the time to research it yourself, you can hire a consultant or analyst to give you an opinion.But opinions are just that. The 90-10 rule applies to analysts as well. Unless you're going to get a statistically significant review from many analysts (in the process, wasting all the potential profit you had hoped to get from the proposal in the first place), it's up to you to make the decision.It's all just opinion, and speculation, and gambling. It's the refined businessman's casino. Even better than a casino: you don't know the odds, and the house doesn't always win.It looks very bizarre to a person of science. Remember, it's the CEO's duty to give direction: if we can solvejust this one thing, we can hit it big.It is not the CEO's business to have complete understanding of the many fields he oversees: from marketing to research. That would be highly impractical.No, it doesn't matter if thatthinghappens to violate thermodynamics (those water-from-air crowdfunding campaigns), or is unprovable, unsolvable or impractical (say, NP-complete problems, breaking hard crypto, proving the Riemann Hypothesis...), or just happens to be some average every-day engineering problem that needs a little more research behind it (a bigger team, smarter eggheads, better direction, whatever).To the CEO, to the investor, to the businessman, it's just another problem that needs to be solved, directly or indirectly.It looks very bizarre to a person of science. There are exactly this many types of problems: those that are proven true, those that are proven false, those thatcan beproven true or false, and those whichcannot be proven true or false.But the CEO can't possibly take the time to understand why some particular problem might be provably unprovable. It's just someone's opinion whether it is or not. And what if that opinion is mistaken?It's all just opinion.This is the main reason why businesses and investors frequently entertain proposals, that -- to those with in-depth knowledge of the subject, looks ludicrous -- and, indeed, why they necessarilymustentertain such things, because it's all just different opinions.Now, if I haven't bored you enough, your homework assignment is this: read about what a "legal opinion" is, and what "evidence" and "testimony" are. Reflect on these subjects, and write a short (500 word) essay about them.Tim

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 09:30:28 am
content: I agree with much of what you say Tim but in a company with such a narrow portfolio as Steorn then surely reality must have not been that much of a stranger to them?I can see how a company with a broad portfolio of seemingly unrelated market and products could get their CEO in such a position but doesn't it seem unlikely that any decent CEO wouldn't have some inkling that all wasn't right in what was essentially a single technology?I can believe that investors would keep on putting money in, after all they're only about the return, most would have had stock because it was part of a scheme offered by a financial company who'd chosen based on figures, not technological knowledge.Nobody likes to have to admit they've been had so they will throw good money after bad, at least for a short time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 09:35:37 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 21, 2017, 04:38:28 pmI can remember getting an email from an Orbo investor who had access to their developer forum or whatever it was. Probably 6+ years ago now.He could smell the BS, but wanted my opinion on whether or not there could possibly be something in it (guess my response). His desperation and "wanting to believe" was so evident it was sad, he just couldn't walk away from it even when he knew deep down he was being duped. He said almost everyone in the developer forum club were fairly clueless on electronics or engineering, so pretty easy to see why Orbo strung them along for so long.The classic long con.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 09:38:30 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 22, 2017, 07:33:13 amThis is how uBeam sucked in so may big name people.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 10:21:06 am
content: Quote from: CJay on May 22, 2017, 09:30:28 amYeah, within Stoern, it's unclear how much of (and at what levels) it was self-deception versus explicit scamming, but the amount was certainly nonzero.Tim

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 11:53:14 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 22, 2017, 10:21:06 amIf you've ever watched the guy talk and give demos etc your spidey scam sense goes off the charts.Unlike the uBeam, Solar Roadways, Fontus and other such people which your spidey sense tells you are just genuinely delusional and won't admit their world changing idea isn't practical.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 04:14:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2017, 09:18:50 amHere in this video they show the scope and expensive probes:If the first guy in the video asking questions is an indication of how educated the the investors are, then we get an idea of easy it was to scam 23 million out of them.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 04:41:46 pm
content: So, here is what he has been using the 1 GHz scope for:That guy is pretty funny...He shows his potential investors the scope trace and tries to explain what this means and the line goes up and up and shows over unity.All he did, is using the math function of the scope and integrated the current trace., LOLThis is in part 2 of the 4 part video series.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 08:25:52 pm
content: It's pretty typical for tech startups that get their first big influx of investor cash to go on a spending spree buying all sorts of fancy equipment and toys that may or may not have any real value to the company. Then more often than not the money runs out, morale plummets, rounds of layoffs commence and eventually the company liquidates.As far as why investors fall for that stuff, people *want* to believe. I've encountered otherwise fairly intelligent people who fell for all that free energy BS, conspiracies about the 100mpg carburetors, etc. Makes for a good story to illustrate how "the man" is always beating up on the little guy and holding everyone down. There have been enough incidents in the past where people have accomplished things that most people thought were impossible. I think the laws of energy are well enough established that they can be taken for granted but I can see how less technical people might not think so.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2017, 05:17:11 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 22, 2017, 08:25:52 pmDoesn't just work for tech scams, you could steal entire countries that way...

author: BlueText
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2021, 05:27:17 pm
content: Hi thereI've been an avid follower of Steorn for many years and I kind of assumed it was over but I was doing a bit of searching and I came across a Steorn patent that looks like it has only just emerged in the public domain. It looks almost exactly like the E-Orbo they demonstrated many years ago and claims to be an "Electric motor with no counter electromotive force" :https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110227440A1/enThe patent expired at some point in the past due to a fee related issue but has recently had the expiration date extended to 2031 which I can only imagine is because someone has paid the fee and taken ownership of it!TL:DR - It claims to work by using a ferro-magnetic toroidal core made of Manganese and Zinc, (which I assume will have fast domain movement compared to a sintered Iron core), which is wrapped in a toroidal coil. The pair of rotor magnets have one North and one South facing outwards. They are attracted to the ferro-magnetic core which cause the core to become magnetic with a vertical pole orientation. They then apply voltage to the coil which turns the core from a vertical pole orientation to a horizontal orientation which releases the rotor magnets without any Counter Electromotive Force.To me this seems pretty fantastic, for obvious reasons, and i thought who better to debunk this than EEVblog, especially as he made a good video recently on back EMF. Although it doesn't specifically describe itself as an Over-unity device I am assuming that is what it is supposed be without specifically saying so, to not be rejected by the patent offices.Just thought some people might find it interesting.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 12:42:45 am
content: I recall pondering that for a bit, all those years ago, and concluded that there will be bEMF due to the unbalanced saturation of the core.Also, there's a tangential component to the core saturation; magnetic field is a vector after all, and effectively the core can handle sqrt(2) more flux if you do it from two directions rather than just one. Put another way, you need to make sure the core is very well saturated indeed (so that the hypotenuse of that triangle is dominated by the long side, the control bias, so the tangential element is forced to be small). Which still maybe isn't a perfect counterindication, but it also suggests losses will be high, on account of the higher bias requiring more copper losses.Anyway, the thing with being unbalanced is, some flux gets injected into the control winding. Think of it however you like: leakage escaping partway along the loop, or variable mu (effectively the lower mu near the magnet makes an equivalent magnetic circuit of an open 'C' with most of the control winding on it), etc.For a perfectly balanced control winding and core, external fields are ignored, but saturation is a nonlinear effect which breaks symmetry, thus allowing coupling from the outside.And as I recall, the mechanism they had was very well balanced (mechanically), so that it spun for a long time -- low friction. The classic overunity hack, using so little power -- and using mostly reactive power -- indeed the control winding is a huge inductor -- to bury the real power in the noise floor. If you can't show it making real motive power, don't waste my time!Manganese and zinc will be MnZn ferrite, of the formula (Zn,Mn)Fe2O4, crystallizing in the spinel family. Just any bog standard power ferrite.Tim

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 02:13:10 am
content: Quote from: BlueText on August 28, 2021, 05:27:17 pmNope, I won't give them the oxygen.They will just take bits of my video out of context and use it for propaganda or promotional purposes.The only winning move is not to play.

author: BlueText
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 08:12:45 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 29, 2021, 02:13:10 amAh yeah didn't think of that.Thanks for taking a look anyway.