As if Solar fricken roadways wasn't bad enough, check out this "Great new idea" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Baron Gray
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 11:55:56 am
content: I wonder if this is a joke:https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/10/10/bankset-energy-announces-gw-scale-plans-for-solar-railways-the-world-over/?fbclid=IwAR2OrdZPDuhtTyUBH3VOKN3R61T1Og_QuIrokSzfbgJirV3_o5HtlbBGgvk

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 12:24:06 pm
content: It must be.One does not just go around and install things on rail, especially not in germany. You need dozens or qualification, certification and permits. And not to mention you first have to invent a new ISO standard to do your thing if no existing standard describes your product.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 12:49:45 pm
content: Quote from: Baron Gray on May 18, 2020, 11:55:56 amNo, it's notQuoteI'm happy to do any projects in ratio 1 (my) : 300 (them)

author: SerieZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 01:04:00 pm
content: Just why?I guess at least the trains are not drivingonthem... I first Imagined the rails themselves being a solar panel.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 02:44:16 pm
content: Three words: "Drop Chute Toilet".

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 02:53:10 pm
content: Yeah, yet another one.The "why" is relatively obvious (apart from just being hype): I guess the idea is to put solar panels on areas that are *already* covered by something else, instead of having to cover free areas. I don't necessarily disagree with this point. I'd rather see solar panels on railways than invading wild nature.That said, there are many other covered areas where they could be put on, so...And sure, this roadways/railways approach is still not worth it in terms of ROI, and the maintenance cost would IMO be very significant. Just take a look at how much it costs to maintain railways already. Given the constraints, I wouldn't bet on a lifetime for the panels exceeding a few weeks. Oh well.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 04:18:42 pm
content: That might work on a maglev transit system. The PV cells are laid out in the central casson/support, which over their aggregate length, provides enough current to drive the passenger car's magnets - about 100KW. Small problem when there is no sunshine, but that's when the free energy dynamo kicks in - pedals.A similiar concept on solar pavements, where people wear maglev boots or ride maglev skateboards.We don't need roads

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 05:22:03 pm
content: Surely the sloping embankments around many railway lines would offer much better siting for traditional solar panel arrays. A fair number of them must face in a favourable direction.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 05:40:28 pm
content: A clever way to make the cost of the solar cells themselves unimportant. Just think of the interconnect problem with these small area panels distributed over huge distances.This might be slightly less nonsensical in some regions of the world like central north america, the plains of russia and argentina and others where terrain doesn't provide shading, where vegetation is short so it doesn't shade these ground level installations, where periodic rains provide some cleaning and where there aren't periodic dust storms. But wait, in areas like that conventional solar installations also work better.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 07:11:03 pm
content: As folks propose ever-more solar panels, I wonder if there are any environmental impacts of blocking solar radiation from Earth's surface?Which reminds me: There just HAS to be downstream impact from wind turbine farms. They extract energy from the wind, correct? That is to say, if they were 100% efficient at their job there would be no wind downstream of them. Well, they may not be 100% efficient but they DO extract some energy... what is the downstream impact? How does that affect (say) historical seed dispersal patterns? Prevailing winds used by migratory birds? Natural heating and cooling of urban and rural areas? Has anyone considered these impacts?A bunch of dams here in the Pacific Northwest, which you'd think would be the very definition of permanent fixtures, have been challenged in courts recently for removal. Several have been breached and others are on the chopping block. Imagine the irony if someday courts start ruling that wind and solar farms have to be removed because of environmental impacts.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 07:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on May 18, 2020, 07:11:03 pmPlenty of information about that.https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/127QuoteSo, compared with anything else: peanuts.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 08:21:09 pm
content: I didn't see anything addressing the environmental impact of preventing the solar radiation from continuing to reach the Earth's surface. That was my question, the impact of *changing* how the sun reaches the surface. Just as how we are changing wind patterns with miles of turbine arrays.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 09:10:52 pm
content: On the surface (all puns intended) installing solar panels on railway ties seems like a better idea than solar roadways or even solar pedestrian / bicycle ways; until looking at the practical details.Better than a bad idea, doesn’t make it a good idea; but that’s never stopped the gullible.Railroads are generally very protective of their infrastructure and would require substantial income to even consider this type of interference to their core operation. I doubt that any corporate owned railway would allow another company to install and connect these panels as they certainly would interfere with ongoing tie and rail replacement not to mention possible weakening of the rail bed structure to run conduit and wire from between the rails to main conduits parallel to the tracks.Other concerns are vandalism, vibration, maintenance costs and issues with animal rights groups claiming these interfere with wild animals crossing the tracks.

author: BreakingOhmsLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:43:28 pm
content: In Germany you say?Well, my friends, let me introduce you to a little german thing called a"Gleisschotterbettungsreinigungsmaschine".Yes, that's an actual german word.And,yes, that's actually a thing:It picks up the entire rail, scoops up the gravel bed, cleans the gravel, places it back and puts down the rails again.Ziz is ze german way, ja?

author: jeroen79
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:55:35 pm
content: Why are they installing narrow solar panels only on the ties?Wouldn't it be simpler to place longer panels spanning several ties?Quote from: BreakingOhmsLaw on May 18, 2020, 10:43:28 pmSo is "Gleisschotterbettungsreinigungsmaschineführer".

author: BreakingOhmsLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 11:01:12 pm
content: Actually, it becomes Gleisschotterbettungsreinigungsmaschinenführer.We add another n because it's not long enough yet. And because we can.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 04:30:11 pm
content: I see the article says that they propose special solar panel cleaning trains that will pass along the track and wash the panels. That's all very well, but it sounds to me like this cleaning will need to be undertaken very frequently, imposing a significant overhead. Wouldn't surprise me if the extra expense of such cleaning will exceed the revenue generated by the panels!I mean, there are so many things that would deposit dirt or other detritus on such panels:- Falling leaves. A lot of British suburban lines run in cuttings, with significant tree coverage on the embankments either side, leading to the infamous train delays due to "leaves on the line". Rainfall alone ain't going to clear those.- Rail-head treatment trains (RHTT) - a method of mitigating the above - blast dirteverywhere. If you have ever seen one, you'll know how exceedingly dirty the train itself gets. Now imagine that muck covering the panels. Every RHTT would need to be followed by a solar panel cleaning train!- Any rail grinding would blast the surface of the panels with a red hot shower of sparks. I'm sure even the most robust of glass surfaces couldn't help but end up with some pitting and un-washable slag stuck to it.- They would never be able to use them on any lines frequented by steam trains, due to the potential danger of fireboxes dropping hot ashes.They also mention that "parking rails" are a candidate location. I don't see why, as such places tend to be overgrown with weeds in sunny seasons, due to their infrequent use. Would be yet another maintenance overhead, as the weeds would need to be kept down.Their test installation in Germany was supposed to have been completed last year. Would be interesting to see whether they have had very much success with it.