ISA GPIB Card for a Socket 7 Computer/Tektronix Oscilloscope  Project - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 01:48:42 am
content: Hey folks, I want to put together a PC for the purpose of accessing my Tektronix oscilloscope projects using a GPIB card.I want it to be a retro build using only parts from the 1990's.My last computer project was back in 1997 so I want to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. I have this Socket 7 motherboard with both PCI and ISA slots. Since I don't need the ethernet or modem cards, it frees-up the two ISA slots.Looking on Ebay, I found a seller who has brand new, made in the USA, HP 82341-26503 ISA GPIB cards for $25 shipped and I was wondering if I can use it instead of buying a used National Instruments ISA GPIB card?https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-82341-26503-GPIB-ISA-High-Speed-Interface-Board-New/254615768493?epid=1454863369&hash=item3b48484dad:g:qksAAOSwYBta-~xcThank you

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 02:16:27 am
content: The motherboard itself looks pretty good but the fan that cools the CPU was locked-up. Hopefully, the AMD CPU survived!I bought a new fan on DigiKey to replace the old one:https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/sunon-fans/MF50151V2-1000U-A99/7652226The 3v CR2032 coin battery on the motherboard measures around 945mV so a new one is on its way too. I'm not sure if critical info has been lost but time will tell.The parts that I have collected so far include a Sound Blaster SB0100 sound card, an ATI 109-43200-10 AGP video card, and my trusty old Fujitsu hard drive I bought in 1997! I use it as a back-up drive in a Acomdata desktop enclosure, so I know it still worksThe board has one huge 128mb stick of memory, but it's made in the USA, so it has to be goodAs for software, I have a CD of Windows 95 Upgrade and that's about it. I think it would be best to find MS-DOS 6.22 on 3.5 disks for starters.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 02:45:40 am
content: I don't see any jumpers or switches on that GPIB card. I think that means you'll need the config program to set things like IRQ, DMA, and maybe memory address. It's been a looonnnggg time since I had to deal with anything like that. Better look for a manual for that card before you buy it.

author: Tony_G
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 02:55:33 am
content: That's an 82341D card I think - The same drivers I used in this post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/windows-3-11-or-ms-dos-drivers-for-hp-82341c-hpib-card/msg1206031/#msg1206031should work for DOS or Win3.x - I don't know if they did any NT codebase drivers for it so you might be limited to using those OSes.TonyG

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:00:45 am
content: Yep, this is going to bring back the days of editing the config.sys and autoexec.bat files alright!I still have my DOS 6.22 manual if I need to brush-up on the commands.I have the diskettes for the sound and video card though.It's worth a shot I want it to be crude, so Windows 3.11 will be fine with me if that's all it takes.

author: Tony_G
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:01:13 am
content: Actually just checked the revision history and apparently, those drivers don't work for the 82341D - The first version of the IO Libraries that did was IO LibrariesG.02.02.That you can download from Keysight here:https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=2175637&lc=eng&cc=US&nid=-33330.977662&id=2175637&pageMode=PVWin95 only though (I suspect they'll probably install and work though on Win95/98/98SE but Win95 was the only supported OS).EDIT: Revision matrix here:https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/AgilentIOLibrariesSuiteRevisionMatrix.htmTonyG

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:16:21 am
content: So maybe I should better stick with a National ISA GPIB card? I see jumpers on them and they're around $20 plus shipping....and maybe my topic should've started with the question "Folks, which GPIB card should I buy?"

author: Tony_G
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:27:22 am
content: How I would approach this is what card is the software you want to run written for. I needed to run so HPAK software so the supported card was an 82341 - I'd check to see what your software is expecting because, as bad as it is today getting the software to run on different vendor cards, it was way worse back in the DOS/Win3.X/Win9X days.TonyG

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:43:39 am
content: My mission is to bring these parts together in total harmonyAnd is it just me? but ever since I started with electronics a couple of years ago, I'm noticing more and more bags under my eyes

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 04:50:10 am
content: I also have a Vertex M1 motherboard dated around 1993. It looks like it is set up as a server since there are two SCSI hard drives daisy-chained off of it. It has an Intel 486 DX2 CPU and a Dallas DS1387 IC and all of the slots are ISA.I may do that mod where you cut the Dallas chip to add a coin battery on top of it just to see if this thing will run. I have a newer CD Rom and floppy drive too.Quality made stuff

author: Tony_G
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 05:07:06 am
content: Nice - Are those EISA slots?Having an old machine (as compared to a VM) really helps with running this older software - This is why I grabbed a viper card and built up a Dolchpac.TonyG

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 05:35:30 am
content: Yes, there are two EISA slots.I just went on Wikipedia and this Vertex motherboard is called a Baby AT. Wikipedia even uses this identical motherboard in their picture of one.They say that it can be used as a PC or a server.Woo-hooHere's a shot of the EISA Trident video card. It stretches over 10" long:Other parts that I have are a Creative ISA sound card and a SCSI controller.I'm going to get started by testing/rebuilding two power suppliesBtw, the seller on Ebay took my offer of $15 for the National ISA GPIB card too!

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 06:36:26 am
content: Are you sure about those slots on that second motherboard? Those 'ISA' slots look much too fancy. I think you've got an EISA motherboard with two VESA Local Bus slots.And that video card isn't EISA. It's definitely VESA Local Bus. EISA cards look somewhat similar to AGP in that they have sort of a 'two level' edge connector.Baby AT is the name for a form factor rather than a nickname for your board. Your board appears to be a Gigabyte GA-486TA.

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 08:44:55 am
content: Thank you EdPalmer42.I found GA-486TA Rev. 2 printed between the EISA slots.The board measures 13" x 8.75" exactly.Most of the IC's are dated 1991-1993.Thanks for clearing things up

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 11:29:21 am
content: Damn loll trashed some 486 and a pentium "1" the other day loll they where fully functionals .... loll

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 12:28:08 pm
content: In my experience, that NI AT-GPIB-TNT is the most versatile card that covers the most ground for early DOS and Windows systems, with drivers from DOS to XP. The computer on my bench has one, it's a dual-boot XP and 98SE, and you can boot to DOS from 98SE, so that covers all the bases at once.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 12:47:42 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on November 24, 2020, 11:29:21 amhow often do you throw $100 bills into the trash?isnt GPIB just a glorified parallel port? Checks wikipedia>IEEE 488 is an 8-bit, electrically parallel bus which employs sixteen signal lines — eight used for bi-directional data transfer, three for handshake, and five for bus management — plus eight ground return lines.is there any smarts in those isa controller cards, or is it just mapped to few arbitrary IO ports + triggering irq on SRQ?google saysCode:02E0-02EF ----GPIB (General Purpose Interface Bus, IEEE 488 interface)(GAB 0 on XT)02E1GPIB (adapter 0)02E202E3Code:base I/O address 2B8 hex. With this setting, the board uses the I/O address space 2B8 hex through 2BF hexhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ieee-488-(aka-gpib-or-hpib)/has parallel to gpib interface documentation in attachment

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 01:35:43 pm
content: While you're going to the trouble of building a retro-box to access a Tek scope wouldn't it be worth the extra effort getting your hands on the GPIB ISA cards that work with the Tektronix DOS calibration software just in case you need it at some point later?

author: madao
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 02:33:33 pm
content: Tektronix field adjustment software doesn't work with HP GPIB card, also not with NI GPIB card without 7210 GPIB Controller (exception PCII/IIA from NI)It works only with GPIB card with 8 bit ISA interface and µpD7210 controller (and PCII/IIA from NI )Tektronix FAS is written direct to NI PCII and NI PCIIA, both is a µpD7210 GPIB card. PCII and PCIIA has difference I/O address range.Most µpD7210 GPIB controller from other manufacture is compatible with PCII.Example, which, it works with tektronix FAS.NI PCII-compatible (not sure )https://www.ebay.de/itm/GPIB-PC-Karte-CEC-488-GPIB-ISA/203193175298?hash=item2f4f41cd02:g:H-IAAOSwEVhfsqe7NI PCII compatiblehttps://www.ebay.de/itm/Retro-CEC-01000-00300-PC-488-GPIB-ISA-Interface-Card-IEEE-01000-60300/174356113464?hash=item28986f2838:g:Ow4AAOSwh~xeHNzPhttps://www.ebay.de/itm/National-Instruments-GPIB-PCII-IIA-Interface-Card-8-Bit-ISA-Rev-E-Vinatge/353227225777?hash=item523dfbbab1:g:6qIAAOSwp2Vfe9VZGreetingsmattBTW: You doesn't need highend VGA , Board for this work. Only FPU and 640kb memory is important (of coruse ISA also)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 06:18:58 pm
content: Has anybody have any low level programming documentation for those cards? How do you talk to them? is there a driver and you call some interrupt with parameters in registers? do you do direct IO? do you program DMA transfers?This is one of those things dosbox or PCem + usb dongle could solve easily with proper emulation.

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 06:52:01 pm
content: Matt, I'll order the correct model of GPIB card that you recommended.The Socket 3 motherboard power supply is cleaned up inside and out. It looks really nice with no burn marks to be found. The fan was tested separately and it runs well. All of the electrolytic capacitors are made by Rubycon and are 105c types.The +5 measures 5.15VDC with no loadThe +12 measures 11.59VDC with no load (seems low)*Btw, I found a great web-page regarding the GA-486TA board. Layout, Jumper info, CPU's that can be used, memory and how they're installed, etc. Very helpful:https://arvutimuuseum.ee/th99/m/E-H/32006.htmThe quality of the PC board is incredible. I've never owned so much gold in my life!The 486 BIOS chip:The Cache:And fan technology has come a long way too in these past 30 years! Here is the new Sunon MagLev Vapo fan resting on the old heatsink with the old fans in the foreground. The new fan is 30% larger and fits just right and blows like no tomorrow:The old fans are rated between 60 and 80mA. I measured 76mA for this one:The new fan measures just over 45mA and spins like a top. Its life expectancy is 70,000 hours

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 08:22:30 pm
content: I have a spare PCII/IIA, PM if interested.

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 03:07:13 am
content: I tackled the Dallas DS1387 battery mod a few moments ago and all went wellI first ground down the areas near pins 16 and 20 using a Dremel cut-off tool. I stopped when I seen the shape of the legs appear. Pin 20 has its leg folded back twice so you'll only see the base of the pin:I ordered several styles of CR2032 batteries that had legs attached and the Panasonic CR-2032/VCN worked the best. Mounting it vertical on the Dallas chip is fine since I have plenty of clearance in the computer:I drilled through pin 16's leg at the tip to sever its connection to the internal battery (confirmed with a continuity test). I then pre-tinned both the battery and the chip's surfaces and on she went. Easy-peasy!As for the Socket 7 motherboard battery, it was a cinch. Just take out the old and put in a new:

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 09:49:12 am
content: That looks heaps better than my usual 'melt it with old soldering iron until you struck gold' method

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 11:23:37 am
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on November 24, 2020, 06:36:26 amYou're absolutely correct. Those are 8 EISA slots, two of which also have VLB. The video card is definitely VLB. Very nice, both of them, by the way.

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 11:28:08 pm
content: I tend to agree with those who have previously disagreed:I seem to remember EISA being deeper than the slots pictured here.This look like ISA+VLB...

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 12:11:35 am
content: I just took this picture for my "Want Ad" for SIMM memory. Look what's printed on the side of the slots:EISABUS

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 02:18:44 am
content: So EISA it is...I don't recall seeing the EISA+VLB combination back in those days but it was a while ago now!

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 03:06:16 am
content: I was surprised to see an EISA/VLB board too, but they obviously exist.I was also surprised to see a Dallas memory/clock module *AND* a motherboard battery. Then I remembered that EISA motherboards have a configuration that gets saved on the board. Since the Dallas module is doing the clock and, probably, the normal CMOS memory, the motherboard battery must be for the configuration (?).Smoky, did you find the configuration program for that motherboard? I can't remember for sure, but I think the board might be a paperweight unless you can save the configuration. It came on a floppy and you had to boot into the config program and add information on any new or reconfigured boards that you add to the system. And no, the jumpers on the motherboard don't replace the config program.

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 03:48:36 am
content: EdPalmer42,When you mentioned that the board appeared to be a GA-486TA, I was able to confirm that by finding that part number printed on the motherboard.After that, I searched the web a little about it and I followed a link to Giga-Byte Technology's website. The only download that they have for the GA-486TA was this one:https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-486TA/support#support-dl-driverWould you know if this ZIP file contains the configuration for the motherboard?Thank you!

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 04:13:23 am
content: That's it! I'm amazed that Gigabyte still had it online. If you can't display the .hlp file in the zip file, just drag it to your desktop and open it with notepad. It's a nuisance to read it like that, but it's almost completely a text file.My memory is, again, very foggy on this. I didn't work with EISA much. You might need config files for each board that plugs into the motherboard. But that might only apply to EISA boards and not ISA boards. I have no idea what would be required for your VLB graphics board.If you manage to fight your way through this, be sure to back up your configuration so that a battery problem or wild write doesn't scramble it.

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 04:26:35 am
content: That is awesome newsWe are literally going to pull this computer out of its grave!I just read the Readme files, they are dated 1992 and 1993

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 04:41:35 am
content: This book might have a few nuggets of info that will be useful.https://archive.org/details/Inside_EISA_Computers_Tony_Dowden/mode/2upChapter 6 in particular might be helpful. Don't get lost in the details!

author: Smoky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 05:19:40 am
content: The Socket 7 board has a part number of TI5VG+. I come to find out that it was made by TMC (Taiwan MyComp Corporation).I'll do some searching tomorrow to see if any downloadable files can be had.