IC labeling: no, I'm not going blind - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 07:01:15 pm
content: Years ago, I complained to a friend that IC labels are harder to read than they used to be. I thought I was joking, i.e. that the real problem was that my eyesight has been getting worse.But it's not. (Well it is, but that's not the problem.)Here's a photo of a modern 74LS06, an old 2114 RAM, a modern PIC16F1719, an old 6809 and an old Z80. The labeling on the new chips is definitely fainter than the old ones.Why are manufacturers doing that?

author: Dave92F1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 07:07:55 pm
content: Maybe just different mfrs use different types of marking.Can you compare the same mfr's parts from different times?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 07:22:22 pm
content: The industry switched to laser marking, because it's cheaper and the machines are more reliable.Maybe it's also harder to counterfeit.I guess most IC labels are never read by a human

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 07:24:05 pm
content: Quote from: Dave92F1 on September 17, 2021, 07:07:55 pmHere's old and new Texas Instruments.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 07:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on September 17, 2021, 07:22:22 pmThey're barely being read by this human!

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 07:36:55 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on September 17, 2021, 07:22:22 pmDat ain't laser markings. I've seen plenty of those and they look completely different. Laser marking is also too expensive. These markings are embedded in the Epoxy using a stamping technique,Now, why gray is preferred over white today is a different question. I suspect RoHS issues with the white colour, but that's just a guess.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 08:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on September 17, 2021, 07:36:55 pmYou sure about this? The slightly brown-ish gray color is pretty characteristic of laser markings. I do not work in the IC industry though.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 08:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on September 17, 2021, 07:36:55 pmDunno what you've seen but this is exactly the laser marking, nothing to do with stamped marking which looks completely different.QuoteIt's cheap on a scale, very fast and versatile. Inexpensive machines are affordable even for individuals. No tooling change needed to apply a different marking. These days PCBs and enclosures are laser marked too. Things like phone chargers are almost exclusively laser marked.QuoteJust LOL

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 08:37:01 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on September 17, 2021, 07:22:22 pmNot hard enoughAll of those appear laser marked and they were the cheapest, 100% fake opamps I could find on AliExpress.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/whats-inside-the-cheapest-and-fakest-jellybean-opamps/?action=dlattach;attach=946492;imageThese products are actually very cost sensitive; if there is money to be saved by lasering I'm sure they will want to take advantage of it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 08:41:47 pm
content: Watch at 12:10

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 09:22:36 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on September 17, 2021, 07:01:15 pmAnd if you run your oily finger across the modern label, it literally disappears.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 11:20:40 pm
content: Laser marking is pretty cheap, my friend's shop got a laser marking machine recently, I didn't ask how much they paid for it but I know it's not one of the more expensive machines in the shop. It's definitely one of those direct from China things, lots of Chinese and Chinglish in the software, no documentation to speak of but it works pretty well.

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 01:00:37 am
content: Quote from: Bud on September 17, 2021, 09:22:36 pmI use a white paint pen to make them clearly visible again. Either apply the paint then gently wipe it off.Or for better results, apply the paint, cure it with hot air, then rub it back with paper.Assuming it's laser marking.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 09:04:35 am
content: Quote from: xavier60 on September 18, 2021, 01:00:37 amOr just don't bother contaminating the thing and simply wipe it with alcohol.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 12:49:12 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on September 17, 2021, 07:36:55 pmDo you have any reference for this?For this tread I screwed off the barlow lens of my stereo microscope and looked at a bunch of ICs with maximum magnification, and I see a lot of clear indications of laser markings, such as sometimes deeper pits at the end or start of lines. Some very deep ablation by a "more powerful" laser, and the typical rough surface of ablated plastic. I've even seen a few where the individual lines of the laser in the "wider" areas of the texts and logos are visible.The oldest I saw with laser engravings was an MC6845 with date code 8439.---- 8<------- 8<------- 8<------- 8<------- 8<------- 8<------- 8<---I've made some labels for I/O pins microcontrollers and such, and I found that a very easy way to do is is to use a spreadsheet such as in Libre Office , and then set the line height to 2.54mm (Weird number, but it works with most DIP IC's for some inexplicable reason). Then reduce the font size until it fits and print it on any laser printer. Then cover the text with regular clear tape, glue the label onto the IC and cut the edges with a knife running along the IC edge.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 01:25:35 pm
content: 2.54mm is 0.1" , the spacing between pins in a regular DIP package. So, of course it works.Another trick to read part numbers is to rub some silicon grease / thermal paste on the text ... some paste will remain inside the engraving and make it easier to read.edit :Standard abbreviations:" = inch = 25.4 mm' = feet or ft = 12 inches = 304.8 mmOther mentions: There's 1000thouin an inch which works to around 40 thou per mm (1.016mm for 40 thou)

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 01:50:13 pm
content: Why did you put a quotation mark after that "0.1"?Quotation marks normally come in pairs. Did you make a typo there?

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 03:46:54 pm
content: " is a common abbreviation for inch.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 03:51:08 pm
content: The story is that Philips simplified the logo from 3 to 2 lines to make it cheaper to engrave in their chips.Some vendors completely leave out their logo because laser time does not pay itself back. Or not printing product family prefixes and such.

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 01:06:07 pm
content: I seem to recall that there was an issue with silk screen ink and vaccum heads on pick and place getting stuffed up.This happened in the 90's I think. I suddenly couldnt read an IC without putting it under the magnifier at the right angle and hoping for a fleeting glint.The label on the reel or tray is likely machine readable, so who needs a part number? Go no go ATE, box or bin. Soldering Robots for the wiring are already here. The component of the future will probably demand network access or sentence you to death.