Rant: My experience with getting connected to the NBN [AU] - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 08:34:39 am
content: So, I placed an order for this new 'beaut National Broadband Network at the beginning of July which promises up to 100/40Mbps connection and I'm eligible for Fibre to the home. FantasticIssue #1:My home is brand new. There is no line (copper or otherwise) running to it; never has been. So rather than bothering with copper, I wanted to go straight to fibre. I figured, new house, new installation, might as well future-proof things where I can. Should be straight forward, right?In NBN Co's wisdom (owned by the Australian Government so that should have set off alarm bells already), they can't/won't install fibre to a premise without first having a working NBN connection. Even though I'm paying for the extra cost of the fibre and they can see very well that my property is serviced by a particular NBN node. This means, the tax payer has to fork out for a technician to pull copper from the node to my house only to have it ripped out again and replaced with fibre on a different day.Am I the only one who sees a problem with that? According to NBN Co. that's just their "policy". When I asked a human with a brain to review my particular case, they told me it couldn't be done.Issue #2:My service provider (Belong, which is owned by Telstra) doesn't do the physical equipment/line installation. All that is handled by NBN Co. themselves. OK, no problems. So they book in an appointment for an NBN Co. tech to come out. Appointment is confirmed so I organise the day off work. The appointment time came and went. No one shows up, not even a phone call. I call Belong who checks the appointment; NBN Co. had cancelled the appointment due to weather. Alright, I'll wear that. I suppose they won't run cable outdoors in the rain. Perhaps they could have installed all the indoor stuff and leave the outside for another day? I would have even made them a coffee or two. But nevertheless a phone call from the tech would have been nice to let me know he wasn't coming so I'm not sitting at home, scared to go to the bathroom in case I miss that knock at the door.Issue #3:So another appointment is set for some weeks later and another day off work was arranged. Forecast for that day was cloudy with only a 20% chance of rain in the evening, I'm safe. But, same thing happens, appointment time came and went. Checked again, cancelled due to weather.Why? Was it too dry this time for them to come out? I'll never know because no one ever called me.By this stage I'm pissed off, almost a month later, still no internet and every Gigabyte is costing me an extra $10 on my mobile phone bill.So this time I call NBN Co. directly. I explained the situation to the nice lady without swearing (much). She told me that she doesn't have access to the appointments system, only their Network Operations Centre does. But she can't call the NOC either so I was essentially told there was nothing she could do, I'd just have to call my service provider and have them request yet another appointment.Don't get be wrong, Belong have been nothing but helpful and I could tell they were getting frustrated (if for no other reason but it takesthem5-10 minutes just to login to the damn NBN appointments system each time). They, like me, are at the mercy of NBN Co., who seem not to give a fuck.The absoluteleastNBN Co. can do is pick up the phone and tell me they weren't coming. Oh no, that's too hard. Instead they just cancel the appointment (that's right, cancelled, not re-schedule it, not leave it 'incomplete' or whatever, just cancelled, leaving me and service provider to contact them to re-book it).I now have to wait another 3 weeks to see if NBN Co. decide to actually turn up.

author: Synthetase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:11:49 pm
content: Man that sucks. I've had similar round and round phone trips with TPG/Telstra about getting installation/maintenance of phone copper in a predominantly cable area. I used to keep a novel by the phone for when I had to call them because it was raining and that means the internet is down because apparently it's 1965...I thought all new houses had to have a NBN installed by law? I helped a friend move into one a couple of months ago and all the houses on that estate have fibre (lucky bastards).

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 02:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 02, 2016, 08:34:39 amThis isn't the work of the Australian Government, it's the work of the Liberal Party and the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) who write their policies.The former NBNco board was headed by engineers, the current board is mostly Ex Telstra board members who have NO technical qualifications, then there is the ex Vodaphone CEO (google Vodafail).None of this was done to benefit the taxpayers, but rather the rich, selfish or just plain snobs who don't want anything to upset their life/profits.Quote from: Halcyon on August 02, 2016, 08:34:39 amThey are correct, all the smart people on the previous board were fired. Most of the good staff have quit in disgust or been fired also.What this means is the original board member who made it his sole job to fix problematic installs/other headaches, is long gone and hasn't been replaced with anyone competent.The reason your install is getting cancelled due to "rain" is that is the stock excuse from Telstra (and their subcontracted help) for not doing anything with copper lines. See when it rains the crappy copper lines short out, and they them make another half arse bodge job to fix it, say more shopping bags around bad joints.Please join me in asking a future government to sack every single person in NBNco, and replace them with honest capable people. Anyone involved in building this fraud of a network without fibre, but at the same massive cost, deserves to never ever work for the government again.ps: dump Telstra, they are useless, other ISPs either rebook automatically or call you to ask how the install went (and help with setup).

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 06:32:32 pm
content: Sounds not too far removed from the experiences a fair few people have with BT Openreach here in the UK.Because Openreach are the oligopoly responsible for the actual infrastructure used by the vast majority of broadband installations, the ISPs are in servitude to them for any field work needed, and you frequently hear tales of the ISPs banging their heads on the wall waiting for Openreach to pull their finger out and do something, all the while trying to keep their own end customer happy. And worse still, the technician who turns up on your doorstep might be a contractor who actually works for neither Openreach nor your ISP, and so doesn't give two shits about what's going on.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 08:40:47 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on August 02, 2016, 02:05:02 pmI have to say Belong (Telstra) have been excellent and they are tough to beat on price. For $100/month I get an unlimited data plan on a 100/40Mbps fibre connection. Their call centre is based in Australia and is 24/7 so I can actually talk to a human when I need to. I paid no set up or equipment costs at all.An identical plan with TPG would cost me $99.99/month. I'd also have to pay $99.95 set up fee + $20 "digital voice" pre-payment which you can't opt out of whether you use the service for calls or not + $10 equipment delivery fee.Even Dodo (a real "budget" ISP in Australia) would charge me $99.90/month for the same connection plus I'd have to pay for the modem which is an extra $109 (and that's on a 24 month lock-in contract).As for re-booking, I see no difference if they call me or if I call them. Either way they'd need to speak to me in order to make sure the appointment works in with my plans. If I don't feel like calling them, I can login to my account and book the appointment online (it brings up the next available days/times and I can pick from there).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 09:32:32 pm
content: We have similar issues in NZ and once when I got particularly pissed with my ISP I hunted down what seemed to be the best technical fit board member from their website and personally gave him a good rev. He was responsive especially to the technical aspects of my email and the failings of their physical connection provider(another company).One must remember these guys have no idea of what's actually happening on the ground and need be brought down to earth frequently from their cozy positions in their ivory towers.Document your case to the nth degree in an attached document with a brief overview in the email. Sure this takes some time to donicelybut how much time has this cost you already?If all goes well you will get referred down the chain to some minion that oversees what is actually happening in the wild and maybe then you can get a result.BUT be sure to reply to ALL in any email and make the whole process as widely seen as possible.Should brick walls start to appear, start adding local MP's as recipients and/or the state/federal department responsible for the communications portfolio.Set up a new Inbox folder and keep it all in there.Good luck with the bastards.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 12:51:56 am
content: Its roughly the same level or service that Telstra Wholesale (the only real competitor to the NBN, until they came up with a deal to share) offer, whereby you can only talk to your service provider who can requests services from Telstra Wholesale who contract someone who contracts someone to do work. And if it all goes wrong you are only allowed to deal with your service provider. Communication takes days to filter through the loop and you're stuck without any useful service.I had an ADSL install where there were no active Telstra copper lines to the house, the end contractor ran a termination into a small box under the eaves at the front of the house and left. They'd ticked the job off as being completed and the service provider couldn't request any follow up work as Telstra Wholesale were convinced it was finished and working fine. A friendly telecommunications contractor came by and completed the job (illegally since they weren't authorised to work on Telstras network and there was no termination device present) and we billed the service provided who happily swallowed the charges.It doesn't matter if the monopoly wholesale provider is government or privately owned, they're a monopoly and have no impetus to provide efficient service or desirable "products".

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 02:31:58 am
content: Filed a complaint with the Ombudsman yet? Won't help you, but might eventually cause some change.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 03:27:33 am
content: At least you live in an NBN enabled area.Not a single business park in all of Sydney has NBN. Yet the new housing estate right next door to my business park has it. Because, you know, it's so important that new houses get it so kids can online game with it, who needs it for business?I'm paying $440 a month for 20M/20M fibre to my building I had to get installed even though there are 3 others fibres coming into the building already

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 03:44:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 03, 2016, 03:27:33 amOuch!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 04:01:13 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 03, 2016, 03:44:43 amIronically that's dirt cheap.Next cheapest is BigAir who wants $800+/month for 10M/10M wireless.Optus want $1000+/month for 10M/10M fibreTelstra, don't ask what they want for their 10M/10M fibre, you wouldn't believe it, seriously.BTW, it's fibre to the MDF room, then twisted pair VDSL about 50m up to my lab. Capability of the copper as measured by the router is about 120M or so.My plan:http://media.wix.com/ugd/ecb1de_18a56841f3a945dabdd73db1cafe731b.pdfThat's how seriously rooted internet is in the business parks in Sydney. The only cheap option is the usual ADSL2+ phone line which is 20M/1M if you are lucky to be close to the exchange.Only exception is several buildings in the CBD that have a TPG fibre, and they offer reasonable business fibre plans.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 04:48:30 am
content: It's almost as if they don't want businesses on the NBN if they are raking in fees like that! You'd almost be better of paying for someone to host an NBN connection at their home with a microwave link to your office.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 05:17:31 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 03, 2016, 04:48:30 amIllegal, you'd have to be living there yourself.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 05:31:49 am
content: Quote from: Marco on August 04, 2016, 05:17:31 amSays who? Provided you come to an agreement with the landowner, you can implement any services you like.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 05:49:37 am
content: Sorry, not illegal ... in breach of contract, his contract with NBN.It would be nice if government just regulated that resale was legal though.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 05:54:39 am
content: Quote from: Marco on August 04, 2016, 05:49:37 amNot sure where you're getting your info from, but I signed no such contract. Besides, end users don't make agreements directly with NBN Co., they deal with the service provider and my ISP largely doesn't give a crap what I do with my connection.There is nothing wrong with provisioning services where you don't live. People do it all the time. There is also nothing stopping you from sharing your connection.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 06:39:14 am
content: As @tautech said, we have very similar problems in NZ.However, the problems seem to mostly exist for domestic users.I have been waiting 4 months for 100/100 fibre to the door of my home. The street has been fibre ready for 8 months.Endless cancellations for the install, usually some lame excuse...If you are a business however, things are different...Our company signed a deal with an ISP 2 months ago for what was a fairly big project.It is only a 24 month contract, so not a big commitment from our perspective.Not surprising that it took 2 months to deliver 5 sites nationwide connected by 200/200 fibre with VDSL secondary failover.The icing on the cake is our internet connection.Sorry Dave, I feel for your 20/20 @ AUD440 - that is expensive.We are paying NZD660 for unlimited data cap... and here are the speeds:Our Sydney IAAS servers are up to 1000/1000... usually around 900/900 most days.Our California SAAS is 70/70 most days and never falls below 50/50.Nationally we can go as fast as the remote server and pipe will allow - up to 2000/2000 maximum.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 08:57:52 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 04, 2016, 05:54:39 amMy mistake, I thought this was pretty much universal among ISPs. With a quick google I could only find TPG who forbids it in Australia though.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 09:13:17 am
content: Quote from: Marco on August 04, 2016, 08:57:52 amYep. But that said, an ordinary person wouldn't pay someone else to host their connection for them. It's just not something that is done. Although in Dave's case, it's not the ideal option, but it's an option nonetheless. The only time I've ever done it was back in the days of dial-up. I used to have an account with an ISP called Dingo Blue who offered unlimited dial-up internet for something like $45 or $50 a month. They also allowed multiple simultaneous logins with one username, so I just split the cost with a mate and shared the same login details.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 11:06:18 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on August 04, 2016, 08:57:52 amIt used to be but the wording of their contracts made it impossible to use a wifi access point , as wifi became commonplace the single user/no sharing clauses disappeared. The no sharing clauses still exist for power and water supplies however

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 10:03:50 am
content: I ended up lodging a complaint with the TIO. Quite frankly, the customer service from NBN Co. just wasn't up to scratch in my opinion. I get that there are sometimes reasons appointments need to be cancelled, all I asked was that it's communicated to me so I don't have to go chasing them or sitting around the house all day until the close of business.All of a sudden the "next available" appointment date has been moved from 17th August to the 9th August... just over a week sooner and they have "assured" me that the installationwillgo ahead on that date. Belong will also follow up with me on the following day to make sure my service was activated and working (plus I get this month free).

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 09:29:07 am
content: Alright. So NBN Co. finally kept their appointment last Monday and sent some techs out. Within a few hours, I had VDSL line sync to the node from the socket in my house. Nice new copper lead-in and all.A week later, I'm still waiting for the actual internet service to be activated by my ISP (Belong/Telstra). It turns out, for some reason, on the NBN Co. system the job status is "complete" but the Telstra Wholesale system (known as LOLO) still has the job as "active" not the "complete" status we want.Surely it's an easy enough fix for someone to just change the status and activate the service... nope, this is Telstra we're talking about.Numerous phone calls during the past week have advised me that it's been "escalated" to Telstra Wholesale (all the while there is still an open case with the TIO sitting there) and that it should be active within 24-48 hours. Really? To click a few buttons to activate the account so my modem can authenticate.I spoke to a very helpful lady this evening and we shared a bit of a chuckle about the whole situation. She kindly advised that she *could* just go ahead and activate the service regardless of what the Telstra LOLO system said, but wouldn't because she's been in trouble for doing that in the past. Well, who was I to insist she risk her job?Honestly, Telstra, is there anyone with half a brain and a little common sense left in the organisation?It seems some of your CSR's have a clue, but your management and internal red tape leave little to be desired. Meanwhile, for every gigabyte I consume on my mobile plan, you guys get an extra $10.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 10:36:58 am
content: Not on NBN - but a year ago I was trying to find out availability of an Optus service to a specific address for a friend. I was told "No" ... without any reason or explanation. It was for ADSL, which meant Telstra also had a hand in things.Went through hell trying to get some sort of detail until I finally came across a CSR that not only understood my question, but was prepared to provide information.It turned out the reason was one that was addressable, which added to my original frustration - but that last CSR redeemed the whole of Optus - he was that helpful.These people seem to be far too rare.

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:00:53 pm
content: Seems like a generic problem with IT in Australia. Moved 500m to another rental, had a previous conection moved, they told me 9 to 12 months waiting list and to remain on the waiting list I still had to pay line rental yet I never used it. TIO couldn't help.Had to go to VIVID Wireless and install and external antenna . Now i have unlimited data (conditions apply) and $20.00 cheaper. May have to move again in the attempt to get NBN.Australia's internet sucks big time.Quote from: Brumby on August 16, 2016, 10:36:58 am

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 03, 2016, 03:27:33 amDo you get a 1:1 uncontended service with contracted SLA, latency etc. for that price and were there install fees too?

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 03, 2016, 04:01:13 amWhat ?Cant believe that. 10/1M copper cost me $9/mo. (second largest city in CZ)My parents pay about $20/mo for 100/10M fiber.(small boring town in SK)Why australian prices are ludicrously high ?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:56:31 pm
content: Quote from: razberik on August 16, 2016, 01:19:52 pmIt's nowhere near the same service, go get a quote for symmetrical broadband, one where you get an uncontended 100/100 or 10/10 and then ask for fibre into the premises, an SLA with guaranteed up time and guaranteed fix times.I can pretty much offer a guarantee the cost will rocket.(I've specified WAN links for clients in the past, MPLS, FTTP and good old ISDN/Leased line)

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:15:24 pm
content: Well, I dont need that, useless for me. ISP agent was offering me 100/10M for $14/mo, but .... I dont really need that, I asked for cheaper option which is sufficient for me. And I am watching YT everyday.Anyhow, 100M/10M fibre $20/mo and my parents watch TV over it and never complained about blackout. It works all the time.My connection is sometimes lost for a minute, but ... meh, I dont care about it.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:22:22 pm
content: Quote from: razberik on August 16, 2016, 02:15:24 pmExactly, makes no odds for me, it's a bit frustrating but it doesn't really matter at home. At work, that's a completely different matter (I work for a company who are an ISP/Cloud services provider)

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:47:01 pm
content: Sorry for that, but the topic is about commercial connection for work and I was talking about home connection off topicly ?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 12:55:47 am
content: Quote from: razberik on August 16, 2016, 02:47:01 pmNo, not at all. This thread is about a home internet connection. Dave just briefly mentioned the insane prices he has to pay.

author: Bigfoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 04:17:05 am
content: I believe Telstra is seriously on the decline regarding service. They've retrenched many of the field technicians , outsourced the cabling to companies who gouge and there's little accountability for service failure. Before privatization it (Telecom) was a marvelous company, line connection within 24 hours , generally same day for free.In June this year we suffered a month long outage, no voice no data. It started with the rains and took 2 weeks for a team to come and find the fault. Water in the pit, corroded conduits and terminals. I spoke to the technicians and they said the cable has been in place since 1965 no upgrades or maintenance. The line was recabled for 200m back towards the exchange. Voice and internet came back a week later , bandwidth half speed. two weeks later more rain and another outage for over a week. This is all occurring 500 meters from the exchange with hundreds of houses affected.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2016, 10:31:56 am
content: Well finally! I have Internet! Only after more than 2 weeks of NBN Co. actually connecting the physical line and almost 2 months of ordering the service.At least the damn thing is fast.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 08:50:35 am
content: The ACCC would like to hear feedback on the NBN in its current form. Some people on this thread may be interested?https://consultation.accc.gov.au/regulated-infrastructure/communications-market-study-competition-in-evolvin/consult_view

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 09:45:18 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on September 06, 2016, 08:50:35 amMaybe I'll partake.While I have internet, I'm experiencing constant drop outs on the VDSL sync. Ruled out the modem and the gear at the node. Can only assume it's the bullshit copper lines running in the street. They should have just run fibre to start with and be done with it. Now they have to diagnose an intermittent problem, ultimately at the tax payers expense.