Bowl of water strange phenomena with a circuit - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Spekkio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2015, 09:38:15 pm
content: I just built this really simple deviceAnd I had a ceramic beaker that holds approx 1 litre of water and a large plastic syringe, that can hold 60mlMy circuit is the same as the diagram, except for the copper strip which is a cable rolled like a flat coilThe circuit was lying on the table just next to the beakerI was in the dark, and I sucked up 60ml of water, and I noticed that the diode lighted up.The effect could be repeated every time. It wasn't my hand movement, it only worked when I sucked up water.Nothing happened when I pushed out water. Just when I sucked it up.I can supply with images and videos tomorrow. It is late and dark now and I soon need to go to sleep.I can't really explain this phenomena.Well, here it is in action decting voltages around wires and the radioator. I will with film the water beaker thing tomorrow.

author: kubatyszko
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2015, 10:35:08 pm
content: Well you just made a *VERY* high gain amplifier of whatever signal (current) the copper strip can pick up. It's not surprising there's current in various places around your house.I'm pretty sure it will also work when you touch the strip/wire.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 01:34:55 am
content: Congrats, you have discovered the AC mains proximity detector circuit.Tim

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 08:16:11 am
content: and it only happens when you suck the water into the syringe? are you sure the bowl is ceramic?I'd like to see that, interesting.

author: Spekkio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 10:32:45 am
content: Lol. Now it doesn't work just because I am filming it. It worked just a couple of minutes ago. The famous demoeffect. I will try later.The water here is quite rich of iron I think. If I leave water in a glass a few days. The glass gets brown.Sometimes I can get these loads of brown water, water filled with rust.Maybe theres is an explanation, something to do with the iron. I had left the water in the beaker for a few days.The beaker is one of those moomin cheramic beakers. Made by ittala. It should be cheramic?I will try later and film and see if I got better luck Another thing that quite scared me a little. I walked up in the middle of the night. The device Still laying close to the beaker. And the diode was doing a pulsating, slowly pulsating pattern. And then I looked directly at it and it stopped. Maybe it is a ghost I thought. LolBut I'll keep trying til I get it on film.I did film yesterday. But it was dark so you couldn't really see what I was doing.Skickat från min GT-I9305N via Tapatalk

author: 6502nop
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 10:39:01 am
content: This one is quite simple, actually. For those young players at home, some transistor info first (I'll use the term "Xstr" here, as "tranny" has a different connotation here in the States).The circuit works by having a small current flow into the base of the first xstr, where it gets amplified. The amount of this amplification is calledHfe, orBeta. For the common small-signal or general purpose types, this is typically around 100. So, the first xstr will see any stray currents - we'll guess a small value of ~1uA - and send the now 100x (100uA) to the base of the next xstr (called "stages" in amplifier lingo).As with the first stage, the next xstr will take the 100uA and shoot 100x that (10mA) to the base of the next stage, which then allows up to 100x (1A) to flow between it's Collector-Emitter to the LED (the dropping resistor prevents the full 1A from blowing up the LED).Essentially, what you've got here is a radio wave/EMF detector. Also, note that bi-polar transistors (BJTs) operate oncurrent, not voltage.Well,sort of. And this "sort of" is the whole reason you're seeing what you're seeing. You see (pun intended), in order for the xstr to start doing its thing, there needs to be a certainbase bias voltageto get it to conduct (typically 0.2-0.3V forGermanium types, and 0.5-0.7V forSilicon). Without that little "kick", it just sits there twiddling it's thumbs. Although there are plenty ofcurrentsbeing induced in your antenna, none of them are powerful enough to kick thevoltageup to 0.6V.That is, until you pull the plunger of your (I'm guessing, here)plasticsyringe. Most plastics, when rubbed, generate some huge potentials (voltages!). Your syringe just happens to generate enough kick to get that thing started. The reason it doesn't do it when pushed? An NPN xstr needs apositivevoltage at the base.Pullingthe plunger generates apositivevoltage,pushingdoes theopposite! You could re-test this using PNP xstrs, and see if the behavior flips.nop* If you want to see what plastic EMF looks like, just dump some packing "peanuts" into a plastic storage bin and shake - then dump out the peanuts. The ones sticking around show you where the fields are.** Jeez, now I'm sounding like Beakman and Jaxx!

author: Spekkio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 11:23:07 am
content: Quote from: 6502nop on September 11, 2015, 10:39:01 amThank you. That explains it. It has nothing todo with the water at all. But it just looked so controlled yesterday. It was repeatable everytime. Maybe my body and the syringe had the perfect amount of charge floating around in the air.I just tried pulling the syringe and it lighted the diode. Pushing the syringe did nothing.Well. It worked a couple of times atleast. now it behaves very randomly.I am quite familiar with the amplification done in the transitors, and the base is very sensitive. Has a large input resistance so that almost no current flows into the base. I guess it had to do with the transistors picking up charges and amplifying them somehow. It is very interesting.I never got a good grip on transistors. So that I could design something in a more controlled way. This are experiments I should have done when I was like 7 years old like everyone else doing electronics now, not 32  but I never got the tools or the components back then. And my parents had no interest or knowledge in electronics so I was basically alone. I was more discouraged to play with electronics since my dad thought it would kill me. He is the kind of person that doesn't have patience. He wouldn't let me fail over and over. He would instead stop me and tell me to back off and watch instead. It was only behind the computer where he didn't understand what I was doing where I could do my mistakes and fail and fail until I got my programs working. So I am a self thaught programmer. But I was always much more interested in electronics really. I've really had to fight to keep my enthusiasm going there, because I never knew what to do or where to begin. And I feel I never really learned anything interesting until I got my bachelors degree in electronics wngineering 4 years ago.But still, school wasn't really enough for me. You mostly do digital electronics these days. Programming MCUs and FPGA's and things like that. Would love to have done much more in oldschool electronics. We did that a little bit. But it was not much hands on tinkering. I loved the physics experiments we did in calculating the mass of an electron and thinga like that.Only the last few years I've been able to buy some stuff to play with.I always wanted to make a radio reciever. So it looks like I got something close to that nowExcept it doesn't tune in on a specific frequency.Skickat från min GT-I9305N via Tapatalk

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 11:57:12 am
content: I suspect the syringe plunger movement was charging it up with static electricity.You get the same thing rubbing a mains voltage detector on fabric.

author: 6502nop
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 12:14:35 pm
content: QuoteNext lesson: Inductive reactance + Capacitive reactance = Tuning "Tank".(and why the greybeards used Ge "Cat Whisker" diodes!)nop* Back in the day, one's first project was usually an "oatmeal" radio. It was made by winding the inductor coil around an empty Quaker Oats (R) container. The problem nowadays is that Quaker no longer sells oats in the same size containers as they used to. I read somewhere (Radio-Electronics mag?) that someone had gone shopping with their tape measure, and found that the Quaker Quick Grits (R) container fit the bill. The problem now is,who the fsck eats grits?

author: Spekkio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 02:23:54 pm
content: Here it reacts on pushing in the syringe. Didn't bother with the water this time.https://youtu.be/TV5AGqWKA6QSkickat från min GT-I9305N via Tapatalk

author: Twistedsnail
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 03:01:57 pm
content: You could put a full bridge rectifier in between your antenna and first NPN base and you'll have a simple and novel plunger movement detector!

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 03:11:31 pm
content: Quote from: 6502nop on September 11, 2015, 10:39:01 amnot to be padantic, but something the OP should be aware of:hFE= DC current gain = Betahfe= small signal or AC current gainlittle pitfall I've fallen into a few times!