Which scope - Rigol DS1054Z or DS1074Z Plus - or another option? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2016, 02:59:48 pm
content: I am considering buying a Rigol scope. The obvious choice, budget wise, is the DS1054Z. However the DS1074Z Plus, which is £150 more, has the added advantage that it is 'MSO ready' and I might consider stretching to that if it were possible to buy the plug and make up a logic analyser probe to fit the D connector on the front. I have tried looking for the schematics for the probe cable(s) online but have so far not found anything. In the event, if the only option is to buy the £200 package from Rigol, then I might as well stick with the DS1054Z.Also, I have yet to find one, but are there any other similarly featured scope options at a comparable budget price?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2016, 03:14:50 pm
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on October 15, 2016, 02:59:48 pmIf it makes any difference to you, I am not aware that anyone's managed to liberate the various options on the Plus model, although ISTBC on that. The DS1054Z can be liberated very easily, and the MSO1074Z(-S) can be too but it needs a bit more work on the part of the owner, including taking the back off and getting a memory dump with an appropriate JTAG emulator. The Plus though, remains elusive.I have the MSO1074Z-S, purchased before there were liberation methods available, and I consider it very good value for money, a swiss army knife in a diminutive single package, although I recognise there's quite a premium over the DS1054Z which is itself astonishingly good value.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2016, 03:58:58 pm
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on October 15, 2016, 02:59:48 pmLook at the GW Instek GDS2000A series. AFAIK they also have an MSO option. Don't know about prices though.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2016, 06:52:09 pm
content: Isn't the GW-Instek GDS-2000A an older model, replaced by the much newer, and much better GDS-2000E?But that newer version does not have an LA version unfortunately. Hopefully GW-Instek will come with a model, that is also based on the Zynq-7000 architecture, and which includes an LA option.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2016, 07:23:53 pm
content: There must be a dozen threads on this topic over the last few weeks. Search for DS1054Z and read forever. Realize that the more epic threads are hopelessly out of date.I'm going to recommend the DS1054Z with a separate logic analyzer and others will chime in with way better scopes for vastly more money, but with less channels, fewer measurements and extra cost for decoding. I think they have more knobs...Drive a stake in the ground for cost or this thread is going to go the same way as all the others.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2016, 07:30:15 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 15, 2016, 07:23:53 pmNot just that. Seeing digital signals in realtime -which a logic analyser can't do but an MSO can- is really usefull in some scenarios. Also having all the tools in one box can be a plus as well.

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2016, 01:09:36 pm
content: Stake in the ground is driven in at £553, i.e the cost of a DS1074Z Plus. I definitely could not go above that at the moment. The MSO is £200 more, for what seems to be essentially an extra logic probe lead set. As I understand it, the Plus has the hardware built in, hence my question about being able to construct the probe myself. The DS1054Z does not have the logic analyzer hardware, but also cannot be added and enabled later. I had a look at several threads before posting, but as has been noted, a lot of information is quite old, some of it almost 2 years old, some within the last month. I just wanted to get the most recent picture.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2016, 03:22:58 pm
content: I don't have an MSO but I do have a couple of logic analyzers and the one based on an FPGA will work at 200 MHz. It has 4 levels of trigger conditions such that first see this, then see that, then see the third thing and finally, trigger on this fourth pattern. Each trigger can be a logic level across 32 bits or an edge. Unfortunately it is a DIY kind of thing so I'm not going to gush over how easy it was to buy.https://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/There could be occasions where true mixed signal analysis is required. In that case, the LA needs to be built into the scope.OTOH, I often gin up trigger signals on my FPGA projects such that I trigger exactly on the event I am looking for. I do this whether I am using a logic analyzer or a scope. Given 4 channels on the scope, I probably won't be using the LA nearly as often. The more modern Digilent FPGA boards have gotten away from the high pin count headers so it really isn't possible to hook up to 32 channels of unused pins while still supporting the project peripherals. I have to be a little more selective.Xilinx Vivado now has an Integrated Logic Analyzer IP that connects over USB. It appears I can have multiple instances of the IP so my need for an external logic analyzer is probably greatly diminished.The 4 channels of the DS1054Z are adequate for capturing (and decoding) SPI. This was always a bit of a pain with my 2 channel Tek 485. In fact, the 4 channel capability is exactly why I bought the 1054. That and decoding. But I also got infinite persistence and single shot mode. What a great tool!I would check around and see if the Plus series can be 'hacked' to enable features. The big selling point of the 1054Z is the ability to enable higher bandwidth and the decoding options along with expanded memory. I would certainly prefer 100 MHz over 50 or 70 Mhz.I would also want to find out exactly how the LA gadget is implemented. It is my understanding that it is simply a matter of buying the key and turning it on. But I don't know that! I would also want to know if the hack for the 1054Z will work on the plus models or if I would be forced to pay for the decoding, bandwidth and memory opptions PLUS the MSO option.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2016, 04:20:29 pm
content: For info, the LA probe head fromthe MSO1074Z is active, full of high speed comparators. I took mine apart while trying to figure out an intermitttent problem on a couple of channels... which turned out to be nothing more than dirty pins on the scope connector! ISTR it's a differential output.This is a double edged sword if you're looking to build your own. Tek and Keysight use passive LA probes on their MSOs, with distributed resistance along the probe lead. While technically simpler than remote comparator pod heads, getting the right cable is doubtless frought with difficulty. The Rigol probe head on the other hand could reasonably be built by anyone. The LA will run at 1GSa/s on eight channels if no analogue channels are enabled. Also be aware that the MSO1000Z will operate as 4+0, 3+8 or 2+16: you cannot run it as 4+16. In practice I find this is rarely a problem, but I thought I'd mention it.I may be interpreting it wrongly, but there seems to some noise on the forum about newer MSO1000Z now not hackable, as well as the Plus.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2016, 04:54:02 pm
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on October 15, 2016, 02:59:48 pma) The MSO upgrade box that plugs into the D connector has more than just wires in it, there's a bunch of electronics, too.b) The MSO isn't hackable so you won't have any serial decoders, free bandwidth upgrades, etc., for that price.Best Option: Get a DS1054Z and a separate logic analyzer if it turns out you need one.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2016, 04:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on October 16, 2016, 04:20:29 pmThis is the thread where people are fighting with it:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/Short version: The results so far aren't encouraging.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 03:13:43 pm
content: Looks like this is resolved after all:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg1049439/#msg1049439

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 04:07:25 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on October 17, 2016, 03:13:43 pmStill looks hit/miss.And you need to take the thing apart and use a JTAG programmer. Not the same as just entering a code on the front panel.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 06:20:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 17, 2016, 04:07:25 pmAgreed, the MSO has never been fiddleable without taking it apaaart, I assume the Plus is made of the same stuff.

author: broderp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 02:26:50 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 16, 2016, 03:22:58 pmHow is this done exactly?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 02:54:26 am
content: Quote from: broderp on December 04, 2016, 02:26:50 amAre you asking for the DS1054Z? If so, search around, it's all over the place. Google for 'riglol' (yes misspelled). You will enter the code DSER to enable all options.http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/Then you have to enter the resulting secret squirrel code into the scope. Again, search around, I have forgotten what is involved but it is trivial.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 07:17:32 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 04, 2016, 02:54:26 amNo, don't. The 50uV option doesn't work and will annoy you every time you select it accidentally.