110V power strip used on 230V countries - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: karhong
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:09:18 pm
content: Hi,I have a power extension cord rated 125V 15A 60Hz. It provides 6 sockets.There is nothing inside the cord except for a ON/OFF toggle switch.I would like to use this extension cord in 230V countries.Is it safe to do so for long term assuming I use all six sockets at one go ?Your advice appreciated. Rgds.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:29:17 pm
content: It is a stupid idea.But just watch this space for the village idiots coming out and telling you what a clever idea this is, so you have some reason to go ahead.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:34:47 pm
content: How certain are you that the ON / OFF switch is rated for 230V. Better safe than sorry, extension leads are not that expensive.Neil

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:47:49 pm
content: At best the switches amp rating will be less at 230 V at worse you could end up with a fire. Switch, plug, wire and sockets all need to be rated at 230 V.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:55:13 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on August 28, 2012, 06:29:17 pmIt's like the story about the standard caliber of bullets used by NATO and Russia. NATOs standard caliber is a little bit smaller than the Russian one, so NATO can't use Russian bullets. But it works vice versa :-)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:59:09 pm
content: Its quite a simple answer really.Use 220-240V rated equipment when connecting to such a supply. It's insulation properties and design are approved. Using 110/120V rated cable and connectors is just asking for trouble. Their value isn't worth the risk IMHO. Buy the correct leads.Fraser

author: karhong
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 07:13:21 pm
content: Thank you guys.I will get a proper new extension cord rated for 220V.Rgds.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 08:27:53 pm
content: I have a couple of US 110 volt extension leads that I use when visiting the US but they are very flimsy and are only single insulation flat twin, The 110 leads that I use here in the UK are double insulation with twin and earth, if it was not for the weight I would take one of those to the US when visiting as quite frankly the the US bought ones are really flimsy and an accident waiting in the wings.

author: Gall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 11:18:06 am
content: The exact answer depends.The manufacturer may rate the whole device 120VAC just because it is not intended to be used at higher voltage. However it may happen that the switch and all other components are rated 240VAC and the cable is even 500VAC. This is not unusual since universal components are more convenient for the manufacturer. I've not ever seen any thick wire with less than 500VAC rating, for example.This is all about insulation strength, not the power. Any 120V equipment may withstand twice as much current that 240V equiment due to thicker wires. So do not worry about the current, yours IS smaller than rated even if you use all the outlets at once.The weakest part is the switch. If the switch is Ok (or just removed and shortened), then the outlets are weakest parts. They may have their owl label, look at their rating. If it is 240V, then everything is probably Ok. You may also look at the cable insulation but it is Ok almost for sure. (No surprise if it can withstand 380VAC as well). The plug has usually the same rating even if it has 120VAC label.If there is a neon bulb inside the strip, replace its resistor to match the voltage!But DO NOT try to use it at 240VAC if either the switch, the fuse holder, the outlet or the neon bulb is rated less than 240VAC!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 01:02:19 pm
content: Gall,Don't forget in Europe we use double insulation on extension cables for safety. As has been stated, many US cables are single insulated and so not as resistant to abrasion damage, and do not clearly show evidence of such.As you say, if all the parts are to European specification, then all may be well but we are not talking about expensive items here. Why take the risk ? I think the OP agrees and is going to buy some new extensions just to be safe.Fraser

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 01:09:19 pm
content: Quote from: Gall on August 29, 2012, 11:18:06 amThe standard H03VV-F (0.5 - 0.75mm²) is rated 300/300V and H05VV-F (1 - 2.5mm²) is 300/500V.

author: gxti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 02:21:02 pm
content: I've never seen a US power strip with a single-insulated cord. Smaller extension cords with just the three outlets on the end yes, especially the unearthed type, but not a proper "power strip". In fact I stripped the outer jacket off one just a few days ago to put a current transformer around the hot wire for testing a project.Another anecdote about "derated" power strips: there are a few PDUs here at work (they're like power strips but with IEC outlets, for server racks) that say 120V on the label. But I was curious and cracked one open, and all the wires were 600V rated and all the connectors and the breaker were 250V rated and it was of course identical to the 208/240 ones. No idea why it was sold as 120V, except to placate customers who are too stubborn to buy the 208/240V one.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 06:48:39 pm
content: In the US, you can sell substandard multi-outlet cords, its not mandated by law except for truth in advertising and or certification. UL or similar safety ratings are not mandatory either.However, for nearly the same price or less, you can get a UL rated one [ beware of counterfeit!] that has a switch, circuit breaker and abrasive/protective cable sleeve than one made of simple 2 wire "appliance" cord. The cord described here can be sold as extension for single appliances similarly corded [ like a coffee maker], but its not suitable as a multi-outlet strip and is very likely out of date. In addition, an older variant, a mains power rail, which is just a continuous strip of conductor in an insulated housing once sold in the 1980s is unsafe to use today.As others have said, the OP question is best answered by buying the proper multi-outlet strip for the applicable country. You can get travel power strips designed for 230V and 120V use that meets regulations for all countries because a modern strip is more today than just a housing, switch, cables and conductive rails. Consider the complex UL listing, for something so simple as a multioutlet strip, UL 1363:http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/tocs/tocs.asp?fn=1363.tocThe cable commonly used now is SJ type and variants of it, like SJT:The real issue isn't that you can't hack a 120V strip to work on 230V, just derate it were applicable, the issue is safety in design, both for electrical properties and abuse by its user. Some safety features, typically a circuit breaker, may not be multivoltage, except by design. The developments in multioulet strips were born out of faults found through decades of use: cord abrasion leading to exposed conductors, lack of grounding, overloading, exposure to fluids etc.,Since the OP describes a strip that only has a switch, its no where UL rated since at minimum it requires a circuit breaker and switch. Also, for UL listing, the wire gauge is a minimum of 14.A common issue for travel is the devices powered from these multi-outlet strips are low power: phone chargers, laptop PSU, etc., so in such cases the UL strips are overrated electrically, but even if workable, it doesn't cover all the conditions which UL thinks is a safe way to go.Quote from: G7PSK on August 28, 2012, 08:27:53 pm

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 09:25:26 pm
content: Nobody mentioned it in this thread, but it is common to get power strips with surge suppression built into them for use with computers and other electronics.I believe it is really dangerous and a fire hazard to plug a 120 V surge suppressor into a 240 V supply.

author: Gall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 09:46:53 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 29, 2012, 01:02:19 pmCorrect. But it mostly depends on local regulations. There is no single correct answer. Older rules in East Europe permitted to use single insulation of double thickness or increased strength instead. Newer rules require the cable to be double insulated but permit using old style insulation if additional precautions are taken (Class 1 device).According to newer rules, by using an US strip in Europe you probably lower its safety rating by one point. ClasQuote from: Aurora on August 29, 2012, 01:02:19 pmCorrect as long as there is EU equivalent of the device. This may be not the case for sophisticated "all-in-one" power strip that accepts foreign plugs.For example, I have some devices with universal 100-240V input but with US-style wall plug power adapter. In this case it is more safe to have some universal outlets for them. Fortunately I found some that match Russian safety rules and are 240V rated. Most travel adapters have much less safety even than a rewired power strip. They even may have no UL rating at all!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 01:01:55 pm
content: I presume a hacker knows component function and ratings. A 120V UL rated SPD have let through voltages of ~330Vp, used for > 220Vrms systems it will either blow immediately, or wear down and then blow later on.There are many dubious SPD out there, If it doesn't have at least an operations and ground status light, its probably a substandard SPD. SPD made before ~ 2000 are a fire hazard and internal suppressors should be disabled or discarded. If its not UL or ETL certified you'd have to hack it to check the safety of its design. MOV without fuses or thermal cutouts will flare when maximally activated and create much heat, and can burn through the chassis and into your furniture. You'd be much safer with just a power strip than badly made SPD.Quote from: IanB on August 29, 2012, 09:25:26 pm

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 01:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: madires on August 28, 2012, 06:55:13 pmAh, yes, 5.56x45 is smaller than 5.45x39, totally.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 06:12:43 pm
content: Most trtavel adaprors are at best dicy, and at worst dangerous to lethal.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 06:40:38 pm
content: Minimum Requirements for a 230V 10A power strip : 1.25mm-square 300/500VJust note if you are buying one - avoid the 0.75mm ones, you will burn up the wire if you draw 10A

author: andyb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 04:40:39 am
content: So, I've done this... being an American traveling overseas with my team and a lot of gear, it's easier to buy a few adapters for say China then plug in an American power strip. We would spray paint the 220V strip red to denote 220V in the event some folks had 120V only devices.This worked fine for about a half dozen trips, then we had a fire. Post mortem indicated a protection device failed. Maybe a MOV. This happened on one of about four power strips.Wait till you get oversees to buy a power strip. I like these strips that have "universal" receptacles, where plugs from many different countries can be used in them. They're all over southeast Asia, get em while your there.

author: Gall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 04:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 30, 2012, 06:40:38 pmHm.Russian "Electrical appliance construction rules" recommend the following for copper wiring at 220/380V:mm-sq - max. current (single wire) - max. current (wires in pipe)0.5 - 11A - not to be used in pipe0.75 - 15A - not to be used in pipe1.0 - 17A - 14A1.5 - 23A - 15A2.0 - 26A - 19A2.5 - 30A - 21Aetc.What about rules in other countries? Do they differ significantly?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 04:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: Gall on August 31, 2012, 04:11:48 pmYes, but there's far more to it than just the CSA of the wire.And no, you won't 'burn up the wire' by drawing 10A across 0.75mm².

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 05:01:38 pm
content: I mean literally "Quite a lot of voltage drop"That was the warning on every product that draws 10A if you want to use it on a extension

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 05:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 31, 2012, 05:01:38 pm500mV per meter. Oh so very much.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 06:02:48 pm
content: 5W in a AWG21 cable of 1M ... You know frankly that's able to heat it quite well to about 65C because of the high nominal amb. temp around hereOur government likes to play safe especially when you have 30A available from the same socket

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 06:04:56 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 31, 2012, 06:02:48 pmI never said it wouldn't risk compromising the insulation of cheaper cables.It does, however, not pose an immediate risk of fire ('burn up the wire'), nor is there any significant voltage drop for short lengths.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 06:18:16 pm
content: You have got to meet the latest OHL cable then. being optimistic on the rating is a dream they someday hope to achieve, currently they are so far out you need a telescope to see the ballpark. A nominal 0.75mm cable will typically have 6 thin strands of copper in it for the active conductors, the PE being typically 4 strands, and a thicker plastic extrusion to bring it to the same od. I have seen many that die in months from a 5A load typically, where the first to fail is the PE then the active conductors.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 06:38:49 pm
content: On the OHL extension cords i buy for some reason they are quite thick even in the cores*I don't buy the super cheap ones for sure

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 07:57:26 pm
content: These are the ones from Wallyworld. I make my own, using a proper industrial socket outlet in a metal case, a proper cable gland with a 20mm thread into the one knockout and a good plugtop on the other end. Can be made to any length, longest is 50m of 12.5mm cable, and is only rated for 5A load at this length. I have a proper metal reel with 2.5mm cable on it that is rated for the full 15A if the full 30m is unrolled. Rolled up it is rated 1A.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 03:02:28 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 31, 2012, 07:57:26 pmI think those ratings must be 10C rise ratings

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 03:07:47 am
content: Quote from: T4P on September 01, 2012, 03:02:28 amThe 12.5mm is weird as hell, as for the 2.5, that's for volt drop (and the coiled rating is for a reason. Go ahead, try and pull more than an amp or two out of a reeled up extension).

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 03:23:29 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 01, 2012, 03:07:47 amI think we need a video on that. Plug a 3 kW electric fire into a coiled up extension cord and document what happens...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 03:29:58 am
content: Quote from: IanB on September 01, 2012, 03:23:29 amFeel free to provide me with a reel to waste, I use mine

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 05:16:09 am
content: The rolled up ratings are my safety ratings, have seen way too many burn because some idiot plugged in a 15A load while it was rolled up. There is a cord set available that can be used rolled up at 15A, it has a spiral wound spacer that allows air to flow through the reel when rolled up. Expensive but popular. The 5A rating on the 50m cord is voltage drop limited though.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 08:46:36 am
content: All of my rolled up extensions have a thermal cut out (not fuse, you can reset it by letting it cool) - not sure how well it would work though and don't really want to test it!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 12:11:26 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on September 01, 2012, 08:46:36 am

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2012, 03:27:03 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 01, 2012, 05:16:09 amAt 12.5mm²? I'm guessing you meant 2.5mm².

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2012, 06:38:04 am
content: Sorry, 1.5mm, the ratings vary according to if it is in free air, surface mounted on brick or plastered in under the surface, in a conduit of plastic, in a steel conduit or in a bundle with other cables. The voltage drop mostly applies to how long you will make the cable, then you look at temperature rise to check it will not get too hot.Older cable ratings used a 4mm cable for 20A, and 2.5mm cable for lights up to 10A, as the insulation was not very temperature resistant.Mineral insulated cables have some of the highest current ratings around, a 1mm cable will handle 20A easily, but it will run too hot to comfortably touch.Scariest though is illegal informal settlement wiring, the wire is run till it glows red hot.