Disappointed In Rigol Service - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: JLM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pm
content: I own a Rigol bench multimeter DM3068 (and a thousands of dollars of other Rigol equipment). It won't power up. I called tech support and they said to send it in for repair. But they said the warranty period is three years, and that since my unit is a few months out of warranty, the flat repair rate is $360. My experience with good companies is that they will stand behind their products and not seek to extract exorbitant repair fees if the product is not very long out of warranty. I was thus surprised that Rigol refused to provide a warranty repair. Needless to say, I will not be buying Rigol any more.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:18:36 pm
content: Check if there are power voltages. Also look on the bottom of PCB for burned TVS diodes. They are connected in parallel to transformer secondary windings and have barely any clamping voltage margin. So may fail short. It might easy fix.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:34:05 pm
content: the warranty period is an agreement that you know when buying it. the period is over. get over it.

author: JLM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:38:21 pm
content: Yes, and good companies don't strictly enforce the agreement. They stand behind their product. Just as it is Rigol's right not to provide service, it is my right not to buy their products.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:38:21 pmwhat would be a fair period in your view?Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:38:21 pmthat is very true. If you’re not happy, you can always speak with your wallet.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:51:28 pm
content: That's the consequence of buying new stuff without service/calibration info and with lots of devices with integrated memory (microcontrollers, CPLDs...) inside.Once you're out of warranty and it breaks, your're much more helpless and dependent on the manufacturer than if you have 20-40year old stuff where you can repair most things yourself, dump EPROMs and where you can usually find plenty of parts on ebay for cheap.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 11:07:21 pm
content: Round up all your Rigol gear and the receiptstake a photo of the lot to prove you're a loyal customer (and free advertiser)and demand a better deal than $360 for a box openingLOL, has Rigol opened ' Genius Bars' too ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 11:13:19 pm
content: Quote from: MadTux on May 10, 2018, 10:51:28 pmThat is nonsense. I've repaired tons of stuff and microcontrollers and other digital circuitry almost never fail. It is always the components which get hot or have a limited lifetime like electrolytic capacitors. And with some generic fault finding methods you can repair a lot without needing a diagram.To the OP: once the warranty is over you have to pay for the repair. Any other equipment manufacturer will tell you the same although some will repair outside warranty if it is a manufacturing defect.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 11:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on May 10, 2018, 10:42:17 pmExactly. You shall not expect service culture of Mercedes for Jiangling Motors car.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 11:25:05 pm
content: I'd definitely have a go at it myself before sending it in for a $360 wallet extraction on an $850 meter.Possibly even to the extent of chasing down another one from a friend / forum member and making some measurements of the good vs bad unit.I think Rigol is fine to charge for post-warranty service; no issue there.

author: eyiz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 12:02:00 am
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:38:21 pmThis is really dependent on the co. and the product. Tech gear tend to break right after the warranty period. The manufacturer sets that period knowing the lifetime of the components. So, if it breaks before the warranty period, it's usually because of manufacturing defect. It's designed to last that period. Technical industries rely on short lifetimes, to keep themselves in business. They often introduce some weak link that breaks, called designed obsolescence, so that the customer comes back to buy the latest gear. They typically don't want their products to last forever.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 12:13:01 am
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pmMy expectations generally go with what's stated, if the warranty period is past, it's out of warranty and repairs are charged. Test equipment repair is almost always expensive and charging only 1/3 the price of a new one is actually pretty cheap for most of the manufacturer repair quotes I've heard on out-of-warranty gear. I certainly would appreciate reduced price repairs out of warranty within some reasonable period, but that hasn't been my experience, it hasn't been an experience I've seen common among other posts here, and it is not one that is to be expected given the terms of their warranty/guarantee.Honestly, while the price is a little high (I still think it's not much by comparison, though), I don't know why your expectation is to get reduced price or free service after a three year warranty period. That simply isn't something I expect, and I think that sort of policy is one more likely to be interpreted literally given the stated terms, so i'm not sure why one would expect it.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 12:40:31 am
content: A fixed time-period warranty can be unfair.Was the equipment running all the time, or used occasionally or used once? I wonder if the multimeter shows its mileage- the run time hours? Car makers consider both time and mileage, so it's not a "hard" deadline.Sometimes you can get a deal on a new model instead of the repair.Gear with hot running parts, you have to think the manufacturer wanted it to just last past the warranty period.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 02:30:31 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 10, 2018, 10:18:36 pmIt might even be a blown mains fuse. OP hasn't ruled that out, AFAIK.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 05:30:33 am
content: I have epson product failed, 1 month past warranty. They asked me to pay in full for replacement. you know epson? its from japan, not china. i have to pay the money to get more money. what do you expect? Buy lecroy or rohde swatzh.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 05:42:27 am
content: They are just doing business.This is one of the reasons why Keysight, Keithley, R&S... etc gear costs more. Its not just the build quality but also the support they offer for there costumers. Just because they offer such a generous service does not mean that all test equipment manufacturers do.This is the same sort of support you might get for a Sony TV.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 12:39:56 pm
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:38:21 pmI have had reputable companies do the same. I do not take it personal at all. There is a reason why Rigol cost so much less.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 01:38:48 pm
content: I have a Rigol DS4024 scope that developed a bad time/div rotary encoder in a few months less than 3-yrs. By the time the control was driving me crazy I had only two weeks left on my warranty and contacted Rigol and they wanted me to ship it back to them for repair and it would take at least two weeks or more before I would have an oscilloscope to use again. That is unsatisfactory, I can't do anything without a 4-chan scope working at all. I had a job to finish and even a scope with a goofy time/div was still a scope and better than none.A few days beforr my warranty expired I call them up and asked what the repair cost would be. They told me if I waited until the warranty expired, the price would be almost 50% of the original purchase price, and in any case I would have to go out and find and buy packaging and pay the shipping and insurance cost to get it to them. Paying this much for an out of warranty repair was out of the question.So I called back and asked them to send me a new rotary encoder and I would willingly void the warranty and fix it myself.They said that is not their policy.So I called back and asked to to sell me a new rotary encoder.They said they were in the business of selling equipment, not spare repair parts.So I decided to fix it myself. After a few hours of searching around on the net I found an equivalent rotary encoder for a few dollars. I ordered two and got them in two days to my door.Next I attempt to dissemble the device and find that their service information fails to show the location of a screw in the back that needs to be removed. However, searching on the web, I found help in a getting the information that I needed to remove the decal in the back.However then I discover how poorly designed this device was. It is necessary to peel off the whole front adhesive decal(this is the whole face of the oscilloscope that labels all the controls, etc.) to access the 3 screws that are hidden beneath. Somehow later, after repair, providing I didn't damage the adhesive that glues this, I would have to stick it back on again. I decided, that this oscilloscope was just a piece of junk if I had to go through all that to service it.So I decided I would not be interested in selling this instrument later, it would be ok with me if I could just repair and use it. I just had to deal with this and carefully located the hidden screws underneath the decal and cut a small circle with an Xacto knife and removed the screws. I carefully stored the circuiar cut outs to makeshift glue them back on after the repair, but I knew I would easily see the repair work on the decal when I finished.Once I could access the wiring underneath the front panel I saw the extremely cheap delicate printed paper-thin flat cables that needed to be so carefully removed from their socket to replace the rot enc. Despite being careful, moving things around during the repair, I managed to damage one small flat printed cable and spent over five hours fabricating a replacementAfter I put the who thing back together again it worked fine. But, whew! what trouble to repair.I somehow want to compare this scope with my old Tek 575b that works perfectly after almost 50-years..but I can't! In terms of easy of repair and fabrication, it fails to meet the standards I seen in and old DVD player or a VCR, which are remarkably much easier to service.If I had to buy another scope it wouldn't he a Rigol..

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 02:19:05 pm
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pmI with you, I demand not only few months, Rigol "MUST" support their product for rest of the customer's life.Yeah ... right.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 02:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 01:38:48 pmNo single sane manufacturer will send you the component for you to fix it your self, period.Are you expecting they trust your soldering skill just because you say so ?Yeah, me too, friends all admire my soldering skill as they claim I'm one of the best in the world, as I'm a nice and generous guy around. So generous that I also apply that to my soldering work that generously put solder at everything I worked on like this .... nice eh ?

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 02:37:34 pm
content: BravoV, you miss the point, by the time I replaced the control, the warranty would have expired anyway.I don't expect a supplier of equipment to issue a lifetime warranty, but I would expect courteous service and support and maybe sometimes going the extra mile(or just even a few inches) to help a customer.The point is that this instrument failed within it's warranty period of three years, that in itself was unexpected with an expensive piece of "quality" lab equipment, in my experience.The point is that this instrument is very difficult to service and their service docs were not even showing where the screws are hidden.The point is that this instrument is not constructed in no way other than a Chinese Puzzle when it comes to repair.I willfully chose to void the the few hours left on the warrantyif I could get a replacement free or even purchase the part needed for repair. I could not get any help from them.Are you somehow some shill working for Rigol?Besides that, I can solder like a champ.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 02:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 02:37:34 pmReality sucks, and you just can't win everytime, live with that.Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 02:37:34 pmNo need to continue, you still don't have any idea what I'm saying.Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 02:37:34 pm"If" I do, whats wrong with my argument ?Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 02:37:34 pmYep, I know and wholeheartedly trust you, cause you said so, yeah ... right again.Really, you better buy Keysight, R&S or LeCroy product next time, as these suit you really well.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 03:42:23 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 01:38:48 pmBut that is your problem! Warranty is not guaranteed availability.If your income depends on having a scope then make sure you have a spare one.QuoteKeysight does seem to sell some spare parts like encoders but most spare parts are complete boards.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 04:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 11, 2018, 01:10:44 amI chose particular company for a reasonI am curious - they love me before or afterI am deadin their car? The point is - you get what you pay for. I would love to get R&S or Keysight top of the line scope having top of the line support, but cannot afford it. I just live with that, don't whine

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 09:47:05 pm
content: The point is that I expected better quality service and an instrument that was possible to repair. The model I bought is not the cheapest model, cost 5x the cheapest models offered at the time.I understood the warranty, but not the craftsmanship.The point is that hiding screws beneath the front panel adhesive decal and not providing service information or location of screws is unforgivable at any price.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 09:56:43 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 11, 2018, 09:47:05 pmI wonder what mobile phone you carry then. I assume you don't use most commercial laptops.Companies selling into the low and low-mid end of the test equipment market are much more like watch, phone, and laptop makers. They make their money (and focus their efforts) on the first sale, and they're not building heirloom quality equipment. They're also not charging HP/Keysight/Agilent/Tek/etc new equipment prices for their equipment.To me, itisforgivable at a price. (My only connection to Rigol is owning a 1054. I find it a great bargain and if it died tomorrow out of warranty, I'd take a stab at fixing and if I couldn't, maybe I'd buy another, maybe I'd buy the newer Siglent.)

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 11:27:19 pm
content: Mr. Paul Price (aka RigolCUSTOMER) got shafted from every direction with his DSO, I don't understand why he's being painted up as the bad guy here.They should have sent him TWO rotary encoders for FREE, or at least invoiced the REAL COST price plus shipping,including ALL relevant information to install including weird (deliberately designed annoyance assembly) 'watch its'.Of course it's normal to expect that Mr. Price agrees/signs off on any warranty or otherwise support from Rigol becoming void from that point upon receiving the parts.Hey, the company doesn't know what his skill set is, they may figure he might zap the gear and himself, so they have to cover their ass,fair enough...I would be surprised if NO ONE here has ever been down that path before, with some companies bending over backwards to get the bits to your door asap.Come on, who wouldn't buy a product from a company like that again?That said, just because many -formerly- reputable businesses bought out and converted to sh!tty corporat companies operating a 'first suck them in with bling, then bleed them dry' way of running things(due to incompetency, asset stripping and or arrogant assholery)that doesn't mean it's -right- (a not so cool anymore millennial philosophy it seems)and conned-sumers should protest with their sheathed credit cardsBlah End: if I see any one more -avoidable- Rigol heartbreaks at this forum, the Shopping Cart will be fitted with a handbrakeand rubber chocs

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 03:41:04 am
content: Electro Detective, Thanks for your comments. I was starting to believe that I have been attacked by shills and trolls working for Rigol to shame, negate and insult any person who has honestly expressed their own experience as a customer and who has complained about their products!Why should a "Greed is Good", profit is everything, "use it a little and then throw it in the dump"attitude be defended otherwise by anyone? It is not only morally correct, but undoubtedly and ultimately in the best interest of any company to try to do their best for their customers, not victimize them for their poor choice of buying poorly designed and almost unerviceable products from them.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 03:52:13 am
content: Perhaps you should've made the better choice in the first place.Good grief, such a titanic amount of bitching over nothing.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 04:48:05 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 12, 2018, 03:41:04 amToo right mateand yeah, a handful of them sure know how to go to work as a pack sometimes,and end up letting the cat out of the bag when they get too b!tchyabout their fav brands being criticised for SUPPORT SLACKNESSI respect the ones that state what their affiliations are, but you don't have any issues with those blokes, in fact it's in their interest too to get you sorted asap**** Rigol, I could care less about their 'hackable' value model/s aimed at the lower income market to pull in hesitant spending urban battlers, and wean them off CRT oscilloscopes.If they don't show some support to ALL their customers, assuming they display any support to anyonethen I'm certain the competitions' coffers might welcome your next lot of test gear cash,and throw a dog a boneas Siglent do!These sad trollshills (who need to buy a life and get a real job) try to get in your head to convince you to convince yourself, that YOU are at fault, not the manufacturer,and as a last resort tell you 'that's how s*** works today, move on...'LOL, reason, morals and 'greed is good shooting itself in the foot' pushed aside for a minute:How is it thecustomers faultfor 'poor purchase choices' from a company, who in turn want no further dealings with any of their products gone south,but instead have their paid online trollshills at the ready to bring down anyone by any means possible, for pointing out a simple request for support/parts/docs... and being stuffed aroundGood luck staying in business after enough customers get burned...

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 06:17:11 am
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pmThat, or what happened to Paul Price, would drive me nuts.If you read thatWhy I quit after 40 yearsthread, you'd know that this is increasingly the way companies (or at least engineers working for companies that produce these tools) are required to operate. There are very, very few companies that produce tools without designed/engineered obsolescence and weak points known to fail after some time. I do not know how you have missed this, or why you thought Rigol was different.Many members here like it that way, and do not like it when anyone questions the status quo. Quite probably a lot of their work involves that kind of design -- and I'm not referring to anyone working for Rigol, specifically; I mean there are many that depend on them being able to sell basically the same tool with minimal changes over and over again to the same customers -- and they do not like when that approach is questioned; it strikes too close to home, rocks the boat. If you are not that way yourself, youhave toignore them, for your own sanity. If you can't, you'll break like I did; and that is definitely unfun and counterproductive.Some members, like wraper who first answered, offered information as to how to fix the tool yourself. I'm in that camp too. If I want a tool I can rely on, I need one I can fix myself. This is why I use Linux; not being an EE, and most of the tools I use being software, I like the fact that I can customize them as I wish, and not conform to a workflow designed by someone else. Plus, the ability to create my own tools is basically built-in to the system. You'd be surprised by the stuff I can do with Linux machines, really: my imagination seems to be the limiting factor.In the Linux world, you see the "screws behind the front panel decal" all the time. Most embedded manufacturers who provide their own Linux distribution, have simply forked the kernel, stuffed their own things in there willy-nilly, meaning that properly integrating them with the kernel so that the community would be able to maintain it is approximately as much work as rewriting the crap from scratch, and any changes made in future kernels have to be painstakingly backported by hand. SeeLinux Mesonfor an example, or the situation around proprietary Linux graphics drivers. Raspberry Pi and Qualcomm are even worse: they hate Linux developers with a passion (because to Qualcomm, GPL is hate speech), and would prefer to only deliver binaries like Microsoft does, except that the license and the users/community does not really allow them to do that effectively. They did try hard to do that, in the beginning.The difference between Linux and hardware tool companies is that in the Linux case, it is the Linux community that gets the blame, never the manufacturers; after all, the manufacturers "did not have to support Linux in the first place, and only did so because they want to support the community". Bullshit, they want to make money, with the least effort possible.But that is the way business is done nowadays.(I believe one reason some German tools are often of higher quality, is because a lot of the businesses there are family-owned and family-directed, and there is less pressure to maximize short-term profits; they have to think in long-term also. I am not sure if there have been social studies about this, but you can definitely see it in how those businesses operate, and interact with their long-term customers.)I personally don't have an oscilloscope, but am saving up to get a good one, as I do need one, for characterising power supplies for use with my SBCs (power issues cause problems especially on Odroid HC1s), designing my own microcontroller carrier/buddy boards to use with those, and so on. I realized that I'd really need to do differential probing, but only at low voltages (typically 3.3V - 12V), so that the Analog Discovery 2 would be a much better option, since good differential probes cost the same as a cheap oscilloscope. AD2 is closed-source too, so if it breaks or has bugs, there is basically nothing I can do about it; but at this point, there is no viable alternative I can find that I can afford. (An old analog oscilloscope with differential probes would be, except I don't have the skills or the equipment to fix or keep one working, or even calibrated to any degree.)

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 06:56:25 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 11, 2018, 11:27:19 pmit clearly stated its not in their policy. who are you to say "they should do this" "they should do that"? if you dont like the policy, you can make your own company with "perpetual warranty" policy then you'll know how it feels. i think 3 years warranty period is good enough. most products (including my $4000++ epson) are only 1 year warranty.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 04:37:13 pm
content: I'm actually a little surprised to hear that Rigol has any service at all. They make decent stuff but it's a low end brand known for a very low price point. Excellent support is one of the perks you get for paying the much higher price of something like a Tek or Keysight.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 07:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 12, 2018, 06:17:11 amWhat are you talking about? That you think that out of warranty flat rate repair and full calibration and adjustment for 6.5 digit DMM is only 360 USD, even if they have to change whole motherboard or all the parts inside? Ask Keysight for their out of warranty flat rate repair quote for one of their 6.5 digit DMMs...Paul Price had DS4000 fail few weeks before warranty expired, he contacted Rigol and then they said "No problem we'll fix it for free, it's in warranty. And please hurry up because you have only few weeks left."And then he decided not to send it. He wanted to repair it himself.And then he complaints about how it was hard to disassemble and that he didn't know where the screws are...Enter publicly available service manual, that he didn't bother to read, because it has exploded views, disassembly guide , and even note about how you need to be careful not to damage front panel decal sticker...As for spare parts, most of manufacturers don't sell them anymore for most products, or sell only some parts.. Or if they do, they will sell it only to companies and repair shops...So Rigol have to give you better service than Keysight and than do it for free?They don't. Could they ? Probably, and I believe they should, so they become better company.Where I live support for Keysight, Tektronix, Lecroy, Fluke, etc... is HORRIBLE. Small country, no big customers, no regional offices whatsoever. If I need something it travels to Germany..I have several pieces of Rigol equipment, and had problems only once in a few years. It was DP832, screen problem. I contacted reseller I bought it from and a the same time Rigol to ask who do I send it back to. Reseller got back to me for details, and sent me prepaid shipping slip. I sent PSU back next day, and day after that I received brand new one as replacement. It was sent before I send mine back..In a week or so Rigol EU contacted me to check if all was sorted...I'm not saying it happens to all and that this is typical, but my only experience with Rigol support was flawless...We'll see how it will be further down the road, I don't know that...Regards,

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 07:27:40 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 11, 2018, 02:24:01 pmI have a really old Delta Elektronika 80V 20A rack mount powersupply. Beautiful beast I brought second hand off ebay.Must be at least 15 years old.I contacted support and explained the issue.They offered me the schematics and manual, along with sending me a couple of replacement diodes "it's cheaper for me just to send these to you FOC then invoice"If I ever can afford a new one... I'm going to them. Got damn that is some great support.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 07:30:53 pm
content: Actually, at least in Germany, the Rigol service was very good and responsive, they were staffed by locals and they even sell replacement parts (not the cheapest, but oh well, EU prices).So, from my experience, I can't say anything bad.Cheers,DC1MC

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 07:41:13 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 11, 2018, 11:27:19 pmBecause he demands his scope to be fixed within the blink of an eye and apparantly he waited until fixing it until is was really broken AND he needed it the most. That is a clear example of not taking care of your tools. There is not much Rigol can do about that.QuoteThat is your opinion. Depending on which Rigol office you talk to they may or may not have or know about spare parts. Also let's not forget: If Paul would have send his scope in for repair earlier his scope would have been fixed for free. Instead Paul didn't give Rigol a fair chance to make it right.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 07:45:00 pm
content: It was not long ago that someone asked me how I had replaced the front end decal of my DS4000 after disassembling it, and it only took him an e-mail asking for a new one, which was promptly sent by Rigol North America (IIRC).Asking for repairs outside the warranty period is fine; you never know if you don't ask. Posting a bitching thread here is close to the definition of slander and gives the impression of tremendous self entitlement.Paul Price's customer experience is fine; he asked and received answers and decided to tackle the problem by himself, raising his dissatisfaction when compared to equipments of yore.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 08:01:26 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 12, 2018, 07:41:13 pmNico, Electro Detective's troll responses are not worth the electrical energy spent in sending the characters over the wire.Regarding Paul's scenario, to me at least he really didn't come across like that (entitled and whiny); he made a choice based on Rigol's terms and conditions and assumed the risks himself on the repair. However I agree wholeheartdly with you: if you depend on a tool as your lifeline, always have a plan B.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 08:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pmDid you buy it with a credit card? If so, check if the credit card offers extended warranty coverage.(And in the future, always buy test equipment with an American Express card, since they have the best extended warranty service.)

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 10:33:08 pm
content: I think manufacturers should have a sliding scale for fixed repair charges according to how many months the thing is past warranty. Three years, you might get slugged. Three months, only a tingle.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 11:42:14 pm
content: Rigol is one of thew cheapest brands on the market. I think it is a miracle they have a service department. 360 euro is not a bad price for a repair. Repairing a cheap scope can be as much work as an expensive scope. My first DSO was a 100 MHz Rigol, back then >1000 euro. This was a piece of junk, I used it a few months and a year later I gave it to a poor student who repaired it and was very happy. I then bought a HMO-3522 and still use that almost every day. (professional) I too need a scope for work so I have more then one. Just like I have backup (de)soldering gear, DMM's and LCR meters. I need them and electronics can die (I know because repairing testgear is my work)Suppose this not-so-good brand should show coulance like a good brand maybe sometimes will do, where is the limit, 3 months, 5 months, 10 months ? 3 year is 3 year, and that is not a bad period at all.[quoteBravoV: ]No single sane manufacturer will send you the component for you to fix it your self, period.You are right but there are (rare) exceptions. My guitar has active rather complex electronics inside. After a few months it died. I had to send it back to the states and they would fix it. Nothing strange but I rather repair it my self so I asked if they would help me with the schematics. They could not (probably they outsourced the design) but they would try to help me. I found the fault but it was a programmable part and the cause was a fault during production. I told them this, they asked my adres and a few days later I had a complete new replacement of the whole system, even new rubbers for the knobs. A first class service from a first class brand. You get where you pay for.This Musicman JP Majesty is not a cheap entree level Chinese B+ brand. It is an USA made high quality instrument from a A++++ brandhttps://www.music-man.com/instruments/guitars/the-majestyfor pictures of this beautiful guitar

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 11:52:14 pm
content: From my experience repairing stuff, the smaller company's are more helpful and willing (selling specialized parts or sharing documents) than the larger company's albeit an A,B or C brand.But also had some luck with large A brand mfg's, its all about finding the right person.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 11:52:37 pm
content: I did years of corporate electronics repair, one problem is ascertaining if the failure was due to user error/abuse, or a bonafide product failure or an inherent design flaw.Very few disputes, and if a customer was adamant I would almost always give them warranty/no charge even ~10% past their warranty expiry date.I remember a repair claimed "warranty" and I took the unit apart and a small dead fish inside. The guy had dropped it off his boat, dried it out and expected a free repair. That did not happen.But overall, Rigol are taking their name to mean they are disposable products, not a serious T&M investment.They should at least offer mechanical parts to repair their products, as knobs, switches, rotary encoders etc. have no "technology" and these things get broken or wear out.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 12:56:27 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 12, 2018, 11:52:37 pmThis is what the two shafted Rigol owners above expect, a simple practical resolution, knowing they may have to lay down some cash tooThey are not dumping a DSO at Rigol's door that swam the Atlantic and expect it fixed,with any captive fish inside grilled to perfection as compensation for the downtime waitSome here have had to deal with degenerates that have tried to cover up abuse of equipment and expect a free ride,hey it happens occasionally, but the gents above are not that type of customer.Whether it's a $400 or $4000 DSO from the same manufacturer, chances are high that parts that eventually wear out like rotary encoders, switches, fansand everyone's favourite > suspect rated OHL manufactured capacitors fitted near hot spots with enough glue to anchor down a steam trainare usually the same partsWhy should the $400 purchaser be discriminated against if they are prepared to pay for parts and or service, be it DIY or at an authorized repairer ?If the $400 purchaser gets screwed this way, he/she won't be buying another $400 job from the same manufacturer, much less upgrade to an $800 one,or hit on their boss at work to go for the $4000 bells and whistles modelThey'll toss their knackered DSO (after gutting it for parts) and try their luck at another brand for $400

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 01:30:58 am
content: We have a Tek digital scope that occasionally flakes out. Tektronix wanted $1000 or something just to look at it. Well, I opened it up and reseated all connectors from the power supply to all boards, and it powered up fine. It does this about once a year, now, same fix. It is harder to open their box up than to do the fix.Jon

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 01:31:33 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 12, 2018, 11:52:37 pmUnfortunately doing so is inevitably nothing but a hole to pour money into. There is no profit to be made in shipping a handful of customers a single knob for their scope five years after purchase - there isn't even a breaking even point.Thankfully, all those parts are trivially available anyway - so they don't have to lose money and you can still perform your repair! (oh no, the knobs don't match, it's unbearable.)

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 01:58:47 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 13, 2018, 01:31:33 amUmm, they are in China... they could pay someone a few yuan to list parts on eBay, make a profit, and have happy customers.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 02:03:28 am
content: Quote from: edavid on May 13, 2018, 01:58:47 amMaybe. Then everyone will complain about using eBay. And having to find the right part from a list. And having to wait for it to arrive.This is a thread of unrealistically high expectations.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 03:18:18 am
content: If it's that hard for the penny pinching manufacturers to get parts out to customersthen the penny counting customers may find it hard to purchase new gear from these manufacturers in the futureThis "thread of unrealistically high expectations" is way overdue,manufacturers should take note and gear themselves up to supply better servicewithout losing money or charging underhanded ludicrous parts pricesIt's not rocket science, and was done that way for decades before,most of those reputable companies chasing repeat business are still operating today

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 05:25:57 am
content: Quote from: Berni on May 11, 2018, 05:42:27 amNot necessarily. I had a keysight 4000X series oscilloscope fail literally 1 week out of warranty. Our service rep said they would handle it under warranty (we buy a lot of stuff from them). They wanted to use this to sell us extended warranties on all our equipment. But after getting it back for service, the warranty department billed us anyway because they determined the failure was the power supply whish is not covered under warranty -- which is crazy! the power supply is the part that is going to fail. So we didn't buy the extended warranties.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 07:21:46 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 12, 2018, 11:52:37 pmHold on a second, Rigol Canada/US doesen't offer spare parts ? Rigol Germany offers everything, from the knobs and front sticker, to the mainboard and power supply. Is it due to EU consumers laws ?Of course, not at component level: "Want the third switch from the left on the top row...", but on assembly/consumable level there is no problem.DC1MC

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 08:45:00 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 12, 2018, 07:11:48 pmPlanned obsolescence, with the cheapest parts giving up the ghost first, so that the companies can make maximum short term profit on repairs with a flat rate, because they are required to make the maximum profit in the short term.Quote from: 2N3055 on May 12, 2018, 07:11:48 pmAnd if he did that, he would be several weeks without a tool.Do you have a car? If there is a problem with it, known to be covered under the manufacturers warranty (some sort of known defect), I assume you'll have it towed to the manufacturers designated mechanic on your own expense, and then wait for weeks for it to be fixed, and rent a car for your own use for the duration, and be happy with the warranty service? Right.Quote from: 2N3055 on May 12, 2018, 07:11:48 pmHuh?Did you even read what I wrote?No. I am not saying they should give better service. I am saying that even if they wanted to, it is difficult for them to do so, because this is how companies are required to operate nowadays. (I am not certain who exactly owns Rigol, and their Finnish sales seem good people, but unless a company is owned and run by people not focused on maximizing short term profits, theycannotdo better service.)Quote from: 2N3055 on May 12, 2018, 07:11:48 pmExcellent! And thanks for reporting a different, much better experience.As to myself, I have had both good and bad warranty experiences. I'm not a Rigol or Keysight customer, so not with either of those; only with various computer parts and their manufacturers. The good experiences have been basically when the reseller replaced the item (soon after purchase, well within warranty); the bad when the manufacturer has taken a month or two to "fix" it (as far as I can tell, they all seem to have been replacements actually), and the worst when the manufacturer has taken two months to reply that the particular bit is not covered under the warranty -- which may be against the law here, as the entire product is covered under the warranty for at least manufacturing defects by law; but who has the energy to fight a company that claims that?The nominally "bad" part has always been just having to do without the item in the mean time. If I had needed them for running a business, I would have just chucked the item, and bought a (better) replacement, from a different seller.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 08:58:42 am
content: Despite clear trolling by some here, the myth of that fantastic spare parts availability for end user is BS.Many moons ago, big USA manufacturers HAD to establish repair structure (they were forced to by government) as a part of their military contracts.That included component level service manuals, part lists and guaranteed parts delivery.They didn't do it because they were good. It was expensive to do. They did it because they were forced to and government (in this case USA, or should I say US taxpayers) paid for it.With all that in place, it was obvious they can also give that kind of service to other paying customers. It cost them literally nothing.Nobody does that anymore. It is not economically viable. Board level replacement, return board (or device) for factory refurbishment.And it was USA manufacturers that first started doing this. Chinese ones are just going with the flow.Enough with non-facts and hallucinations...

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 09:16:34 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on May 13, 2018, 05:25:57 amYour testimony here is not new, too many similar ones already in this forum, but still there are tons of these delusional people keep ignoring post like this, and keep bashing cheap Chinese stuff as like they were forced to buy them, worst keep worshiping brand like Keysight with uuhh ... oohh .... how great their support ... really entertaining to watch.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 09:20:52 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 13, 2018, 08:58:42 amRight: Attack the messenger, so you don't need to admit to any mistakes or misunderstandings you've made yourself.For the record, I have never trolled, and never will. I try to as clearly and honestly express my opinion as I can, although my English still occasionally fails me. My only intent is to help and illuminate, and that's it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 09:43:41 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on May 13, 2018, 05:25:57 amI guess they thought it was rather common NAND corruption which is repaired for free even out of warranty (main board replacement). PSU certainly does not fall under that voluntary warranty extension. And this has nothing to do with normal or extended warranty under which PSU will be replaced for free.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 09:48:23 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 13, 2018, 08:45:00 amI see there is misunderstanding here. So let me say it plainly: Not a single manufacturer in the world would behave differently that Rigol to his demands. You have to send it back for warranty. If you don't want to do that that means you voluntarily gave up on your warranty rights. Try that with ANY manufacturer, they will tell you the same.Scopes are not cars. And for your information, where I live, if I leave car for a service, unless it is one day, I have to pay for the rent myself. Go figure.They give me really discounted prices, but I pay. I guess not every service level is same as car service in USA. :-)And yes, you DO want for Rigol to give better service than other manufacturers, because he would have same experience with ANY other manufacturers today. At least that is how I read it. If I misunderstood I apologize. I see now that you realize realites, which is the whole point here.The whole thing here is bashing manufacturers (any manufacturer, if that was a comment how Keysight are ass****s because of same reason, I would react to that too) for something that is not their fault.They are not responsible if I'm unreasonable..Wishing for something doesn't make it true.Take care,

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 09:50:31 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 13, 2018, 09:20:52 amThat was ABSOLUTELY NOT addressed at you... While I don't agree with some of your opinions (which is normal, we are not the same, and I respect that.) you made normal comments. I hope it stays that way.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 10:29:26 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 13, 2018, 09:50:31 amThat is important, and good. Without disagreement, nothing new will be uncovered. Plus, I personally am often wrong. If I am in error, I do appreciate being pointed out exactly how. I am just overly sensitive if it goes personal; claims of trolling and whatnot. (For what it is worth, I do not think there are any trolls in this thread; I do believe everyone has expressed their honest opinion. By definition, that is not trolling.)Within this discussion, it looks like experiences vary even for the warranty services of a single international company, depending on the country. It might even depend on the particular person on the other end. I wonder if, and how, this has changed in the last ten years or so; whether there is a common tendency. (For that, I would definitely not trust my own experiences alone: too small a sample. Also, users whose equipment haven't needed warranty repairs, will obviously be happy with their equipment manufacturer.)It probably won't matter to JLM who started this thread, but I personally have learned a pretty important thing from this thread: If I want to buy an expensive piece of equipment, I'd better check the warranty services first, and if possible, find out what kind of experiences others have had with them (both the tool, and the warranty services) in the past. You just do not know, not based on the company reputation, or anything like that. Only experience will tell.Once again, talking to local old hands in the field and having practical experience with the equipment would be priceless.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 10:53:29 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 13, 2018, 10:29:26 amNever lose sight of that reminder, because it will cost dearly having 'faith' in companies products made in blinged up sweatshops overseas,producing Forest Gump 'box of chocolates' qualityi.e. judging by some of the gab here, the 'good ol days' are gone, thanks to new corporat 'philosohies' and their closet 'troll calling' supporters$400 is a LOT of money to most battlers struggling to maintain a lab or a decent tool kit,perhaps not for overpaid techs and EEs who use gear for FREE,and select shills on the right side of the fence with a cushy job their rich connected uncle handballed to them

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 11:27:30 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 13, 2018, 10:53:29 amYou have been on this site for many years..Do you want to take this personal, slimy, offensive statement back and apologize or should we start voting to ban you of the forum?You contributed nothing on this topic, only regurgitating other people statements, and repeating hate, offense and amplifying only negative. What is YOUR motive for that?Please share your experience with Rigol service or ask relevant questions about it. Also comparing same for same with service from other manufacturers is also on topic..If you have nothing to contribute here on this topic, please go and open your topic on whatever bothers you and discuss it here.Regards,

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 11:51:57 am
content: Frankly, IME Rigol warranty service crap, at least here. However it seems ridiculous to request something that is not normally covered under warranty or paid repair, and becoming angry at the company if refused. If some company does it, it's a good will bonus, not norm. As of encoders, they likely don't even stock them and replace a whole PCB. Keeping stock of parts for component level repair and people qualified for that is significant additional expense and repair quality concern. And is only viable if there is big turnaround. Talking about a little time out of warranty, 3y is longer than law requires (1y or 2y in most countries). I would understand if you are upset when expensive product dies after 1y and a few days after purchase (hello Apple) but 3y is a completely reasonable time.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 12:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 13, 2018, 08:45:00 amThat's pretty pessimistic. My hunch is, if we could transport ourselves back in time into the meeting rooms where such decisions were supposedly made, there would be very few examples of this intentional "planned obsolescence" in the test equipment world.Poorly thought out and engineered choices? Sure.As-yet-unrealized unintended consequences (learning curves) ? Definitely.Built to meet a price target? You bet.Knowing in advance that some parts had a limited lifespan? Absolutely.But intentionally designed to fail? Doubtful.When I look back at stuff I designed and built in the 80's and 90's, I always see things I now know were not the best design choices. Instances of components I used primarily because I had a bunch of 'em on hand, or had a relationship with a particular supplier, but wouldn't use again if I were doing it over. But nothing was ever designed-to-fail.My sense of Rigol and other companies with a similar market niche is: the finance and marketing dep'ts, not engineering, run the show; they design and build to pricepoints; technical support is quite limited; and component-level repair is, for the most part, not supported. It's a consumer-commodity business they're in, and "bidness is bidness". This is the norm. Expecting anything beyond it is unrealistic.Back in the early 80's, before I really understood computers, an Apple computer we paid 5 grand for failed a couple weeks after the warranty expired. They wouldn't cover it, and wouldn't send us any service docs. That was the last Apple product I ever bought. We sold the others and switched to CP/M for business and HP for the lab.Personally, I don't own a Rigol, probably never will, but I understand the appeal. Marketing is a very powerful thing, especially on newbies. At the top of this webpage is a sexy ad for one of their DSO's. They know how to create desire. Eye candy. It looks better than it is.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 02:03:06 pm
content: A good service has to be priced in. So you can't expect a company selling inexpensive T&M devices to give you generous additional service. Maybe you'll get that if you buy tons of their stuff, but that's a different story. When your cheap scope breaks after the warranty period has ended and you can't fix it yourself buy a new one. Or do you expect that your 3 years old broken 20 bucks toaster will be fixed for free? If you want a first class service you have to pay for that. Please research also service options before buying a T&M device next time.PS: When I'd require a working scope at all times then I would buy a second one as spare.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 02:12:10 pm
content: Quote from: precaud on May 13, 2018, 12:57:16 pmI understand your (and others') viewpoint, but why would it usually be the cheapest components (knobs, voltage regulators, cheap capacitors) that fail, then?Quote from: precaud on May 13, 2018, 12:57:16 pmYeah, but consider this: If you sold the same product, in the thousands, and found that some of the cheapest components would be the ones to fail, would you try to find better ones for future manufacturing runs, or would you stay with the failing components?It is likely true that planned obsolescense is very rarely if ever designed in to the first run of a product. However, I do claim that when a weak point is observed in the product, but it fails on average after the warranty period has expired, most companies (although I do not know whether this applies to Rigol, Keysight, etc.) management does not allow better replacements to be used, because they believe it might reduce short-term profits, and will insist on keeping the failing parts as it achieves obsolescence.In other words,planned obsolescencein my opinion does not necessarily mean designed-in from the get go; it is more of a business/product strategy after weak points are recognized in the product, and not replaced/reinforced.And it does drive me nuts. Yes, it is the reality, but I don't like it. I know I am futilely.Quote from: madires on May 13, 2018, 02:03:06 pmI do that too, with components, parts, and even computers if I can afford it at all. My colleagues usually objected (to getting a spare), unless or until they had to do without a spare for a while...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 02:20:00 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 13, 2018, 02:12:10 pmFirst of all they are not that cheap compared to the vast majority of other components. Secondly, the are the most stressed components, either electrically/thermally or mechanically.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 02:36:04 pm
content: Quote from: precaud on May 13, 2018, 12:57:16 pmOne thing you forgot to mention, in early 80's, 90's or even 70's maybe you're still young and probably a passionate electronics enthusiast, I'm pretty confident that you still remember in that eras, for "average" hobbyists & enthusiasts, owning even an used oscilloscope was probably a dream, lets alone having a brand spanking new scope with warranty.Not accusing you, but here in this forum alone, few delusional old farts that lived thru that eras, sort of forget this history, and keep bashing the current "affordable" oscilloscope in this era.Imo, now is the golden era for electronic enthusiast & hobbyist as they don't stuck with multi-meter "only" to troubleshoot everything like in the "dark olde days". Just look around at those beginners forums around like Arduino, see how those youngsters able to find out that their crappy ex phone charger used to power their Arduino had been causing problems because of random power glitches, thanks to single shot capability.Isn't this a good thing especially for young generation ? And have to admit we have to thank to those so called "damn" Chinese.Just try to troubleshoot that kind of problem with only multi-meter.Also regarding Chinese bashing, we've seen alot here around like "Cheap Chinese" .. "Crappy Cheap Chinese" ... "Cursed Chinese Crap" ... etc .. These are actually meaningless whines. As I remember pretty well when I was very young age, in late 60's, my grand dad said this exact phrase to my proud dad that brought his new gadget and he got this ... "GET THAT NIKON CRAP OUT OF MY HOUSE !!!! Real man use Leica" .. and also spitted out other popular European brands camera.May be in near future, some of us may becursingsaying same thing to youngsters that bring maybe Indian made stuffs ?

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 04:39:47 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 13, 2018, 02:36:04 pmTrue. But I took a different path... I didn't own a scope until my spectrum analyzer broke and I needed a scope to troubleshoot it... paid $300 for a used HP 130C (which I probably still have), and which proved to be the wrong scope for the task...QuotePoints taken. Of course its a good thing that enthusiasts & hobbyists have far superior (and more affordable) tools than we did. And yes, I guess I am an old fart. But I'm not bashing the current era's affordable scopes. I'm just saying; know the company you're buying from, what their priorities are, and adjust your expectations accordingly. These companies operate very differently from what I was weaned on. They operate more like any other mainstream-commodity company does. The cost of support has to be built into the product's price. If its not, you won't get it. That's all. I knew full well that the stuff I bought from HP in the 80's was "expensive for what it was" but I knew from the start that I needed the ongoing support and that was part of the price. And their support was fantastic, unlike anything I see today. I could give many examples of it.Test and measurement may be in a "golden era" now as you say, with mature and pretty well defined technologies, and that is what makes these affordable DSO's possible. But it wasn't back in the 80's. Integrating microprocessors into instruments, with remote control and data transfer, was brand new territory and didn't really begin to become "affordable" until 1979 or 1980 (and that is if you call a $10,000 [in 1980 $$] FFT analyzer affordable... or a $2,000 DVM). Everyone who bought one needed support from the manufacturer. There was nowhere else to get it. Now, the internet takes up some of the slack.QuoteI am not a China basher, and never have been. I respect them a great deal. Economic factors are in their favor at this point in history, and they are taking advantage of it, just like other countries have done in the past.Everything else has been well said by other posters. It is common sense to have spares of indispensable instruments. Back in the 80's, HP would supply a loaner if needed for instruments that went in for repair. The sales rep would probably hand-deliver it too. But its a different world now. You buy DSO's, groceries, and underwear from the same retailer now. "Support" means something else

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 05:20:25 pm
content: I can understand why a company would cut a competitive corner and not bend over backwards to help a customer, but I can't understand why posters on this topic would find it necessary to praise them for this and so passionately defend an attitude that a customer should have to bend over forwards to be well-serviced by a company.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 05:32:15 pm
content: Please note that "cheap Chinese" isn't bashing. The "cheap" part differentiates cheaply or badly made items from regular production. The fact that people distinguish "cheap Chinese" from regular Chinese makes it anything but bashing.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 05:44:49 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 13, 2018, 05:20:25 pmI don't see praising the company. It's just pointing out that if you have exorbitant expectations does not mean that company must bend over backwards to satisfy you. And if it does not, then expecting that other people must support your outrage.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 05:48:01 pm
content: There is a big difference between supporting me or others who express their experience with Rigol and shaming them.The use of words like 'Old farts", delusional, or even "having exorbitant expectations" is on obvious shift to attack and shaming.There is an old Chinese saying, that is still held sacred today. "A nail in the floor that sticks up must be quickly hammered down!"

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 05:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 13, 2018, 05:48:01 pmAFAIK one who said "old farts" is one of them. I don't see any offence in how it was used. Thinking that bending over backwards to satisfy you is a norm is exactly exorbitant expectation. I like good customer service but I don't expect more than a company owes me. If I get it, awesome. If I don't, meh.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:07:55 pm
content: I only become outraged when I don't get the service which company actually owes me. Actually you can call me a Rigol hater. Because 4 years ago they drove me nuts by footballing my DM3068 back at forth for 6 months and not admitting that apparent issue is a fault. Until I got so pissed, that myself made it so faulty, they just replaced it.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:45:10 pm
content: Just saying "Meh!" is a prayer to the god of Mediocrity.A short time ago, upon returning from a far-off city consulting job, I found myself standing outside the train station waiting for my best friend to pick me up and go to dinner.Along came strolling a Bell de Jour and asked me, "Hey baby, want to take a walk on thewildside?"My guess was that her business of providing quick sales and no guarantees was going slow, but I still said "No thank you, I am in the business of servicing problems myself!"Then I noticed that she seemed to have a bit of a black eye.I said, "Hey, did your 'man' do that to you?"She said, "Yes", looking just a little bit sad.I said, "Why do you put up with this, don't you hate someone like that?"She said, "No, I love him. When he beats me, he always tries not to hit my face or anywhere anyone can see when I have my clothes on!"

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:50:14 pm
content: I just re-read the entire thread, and I am still very interested in the various experiences others have had; the posts describing experiences are quite illuminating in my opinion, even when I disagree.However, I am disappointed at the amount of name-calling. Denigrating others opinion or expectations or wishes, calling them "bitching", "trolls", "shills", "unrealistic", "delusional"... that is responding purely based on emotion. It has no value -- or rather, negative value --, and brings nothing but mud to the discussion. Stop that, please, but do keep the experiences and opinions coming (unless already stated, of course).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 13, 2018, 05:48:01 pmWhile I respect the fact that piece of equipment gave up on you at unfortunate moment when you needed it most, respectfully, you are absolutely wrong with the rest of your premise.When you bought piece of equipment from manufacturer you entered in a contract (warranty is a contract) that was specified. In your case Rigol didn't break any stipulations of warranty contract. Fact that you decided you will not carry up your part of the deal is both your right and your fault.As for parts, Rigol don't sell them the way you want them to. That is also a well known fact. Also , AFAIK, I don't think any other manufacturers do, the way you want them to. And, to be clear here, we are not talking that many manufacturers USED TO DO it many years ago.. They don't anymore.And also, to make it clear, I'm equally pissed at that fact. We used to be able to fix our equipment. This is denied to us today. But it is unfair to single out Rigol.Quite the opposite, they didn't invent it. Major manufacturers started that game long time ago, Rigol is just going with the flow. They are ALL guilty of that.As for how easy it is, I think people are underestimating it. In order to support component level part selling network, they must establish a sort of small Mouser, Newark or something like that. On several continents. The fact that they would have only 10000 components doesn't mean anything, except smaller warehouses. Whole logistical operation is quite complicated.. Ask somebody in that business.And make sure that components are tracked across models, revisions, kept for old equipment.. That is expensive.. I don't want that to load price of every scope, even those that are not broken...Would I like, like you, that I could buy and repair anything any way I like. Of course! But that's not the world we live in now. Unfortunately.If you want to change the world, I wish you good luck, and also good luck with your equipment in the future..Regards,

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 07:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pmReading through this thread, and some others, makes me wonder how many of this forum's users are involved with actual product development and manufacturing, and how many are just hobbyists. My guess is that it leans heavily to the hobbyist side.Professional engineers expect to be paid for the product or service they provide. The professionals understand that the tools and products they use to design and manufacture what they sell and support are purchased from people who, to be clear, have that same expectation regarding getting paid for products and services.Or put another way: why should YOU think the product you test and debug with your Rigol 'scope is more deserving of being sold for a profit than the 'scope? Do you go out of your way to provide customer support over and above what you state in your warranty document, even if it reduces your profit (or puts you in the red)? If you do, good on you. I hope you can maintain your business. If you don't, then you're a hypocrite.Sure, that Segger JTAG/SWD dongle is overpriced, and that Xilinx/Lattice/Altera/etc pod is expensive. They are ripping you off. They think you're a sucker.My question: why areyouripping off your customers by charging what you charge? Why do you think they are suckers? I want you to give me, for free, one of the things you make. And when it breaks I want you to fix it for free.That Rigol 'scope was pretty cheap, but oops, it broke after the (pretty decent) warranty expired, but you're finding out that there is a cost involved in cutting costs.If there isanyweb forum whose users should actually understand why things cost what they cost, it is this one. But I'm clearly wrong.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 08:23:45 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 13, 2018, 06:59:24 pmActually repairing equipment has become easier because most of the parts are easy to source nowadays. The days that manufacturers used custom made parts are over. Sure the knobs will be hard to get but things like buttons, encoders, transformers, power supplies, etc are off-the-shelve parts. I have an HP power supply which is missing an encoder. Because it is a custom part which is sold out I can't get a replacement. However I'm pretty sure my brand new Keysight PSU has encoders I can order from Farnell, Mouser, Digikey, et al.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 10:37:47 pm
content: Both disappointed Rigol customers above weren't requesting anything custom or special,just bog standard parts the company most likely still uses (and orders extra stock of) and fair 'just out of warranty' repair quotations for recent model/sIf some manufacturers are going to play 'planned obsolescence' games on test gear too,they better sink some investment money and tooling into mobile phones as a backup business, once techs, EEs and hobbyists wise upImagine a lab with all the latest affordable 'Brand Pro X' OHL made gear designed this way, how much work will get done with the PO clock (planned obsolescence) ticking downwith bits of bench gear and PSUs going south at randomLOL, the gear will start to flake before one pays it off, and the parts and repair bill may cost more than new units,back to the bank for some more grovel work...FWIW buying two DSOs to keep yourself working may not bail you out either, that OP clock again,the second DSO may clap out while the other is still away getting looked at,been there and seen SOL happen to others too'planned obsolescence' plus unplanned debt = not good for your business, why support such twisted 'R+D' underhanded business practices?Who benefits from this anyway? The company, it's staff ? or the lazy investor/shareTards and middlemen/brokers who don't even know what test gear is or does?What's next on their 'money for jam' list, paid/subscription Firmware 'Updates' (or else...) Ransomware BS? Please...Would techs here plan for their repairs to fail after one year by merely 'patching up' shoddy soldering work when it's clear a re-do is required,and replacing bad caps with the same quality when they have good ones at hand, and know in advance the customer will pay the difference?I wouldn't, it's dirty pool and makes the stomach churnBuying the latest gear doesn't have to be a drama, just do your research on the internet and forums like this what equipment gets the job done,is reliable with good support,and give the bling and eye candy features the back seatand any company that flogs cheap duds and doesn't make any effort to supply parts and 'reasonable' service...move along folks, nothing to see here

author: Jr460
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 11:29:17 pm
content: S*** Happens.I don't expect a product or service to be perfect every time. Mistakes will happen, balls will get dropped. I like to see how well a company recovers from these things. that tells me a whole lot more.I mainly deal with software in the day job and we always have software/hardware support for things. I know, I know, but Open Source. Look, in what we do we can't have an issue that we have to wait for BillyBob123@yahoo.com to look at his code and figure out how to fix it. As much as I like looking at code for lets say the Linux kernel, if I had to stay that far up on the details of it so I can fix it myself, I would never get any other work done. Now when the a problem is an intersection of RedHat, Oracle, and Microsoft, the people that whipped the others into shape was RedHat. Yearly support for a virtual machine from them is cheap in the long run.Recently in the non-day job someone dropped and broke the battery cover on a device. I called up the company in Chicago, said what part I'm looking for, and he asked how many I needed. They sent me the part no charge, never gave a serial number and was not the owner. This was the mid level gear. That would never happen with the cheaper overseas competitors.In this case I think Rigol should have done something other than say take it or leave it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 12:01:14 am
content: Quote from: Jr460 on May 13, 2018, 11:29:17 pmIt was not a freaking battery cover but encoder. You as well may ask Samsung for capacitors to repair their monitor. If you start dealing with it, then such customer will likely screw up his device even more and in the end pass that shit on you. Don't want to follow normal warranty procedure, then you're on your own. Don't blame anyone for not wanting to play by your rules.Not exactly the same, but similar. You don't want to do business which causes you pain in the ass.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 12:09:42 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 13, 2018, 10:37:47 pmWhich they have in their factory, for controlled use in production. Not randomly pulling them out for customers to perform repairs with.QuoteThe quote seemed fair.QuoteYou mean like quite a few companies in quite a few businesses already do and have done for many years, and do so on products with five or six digit price tags?You accuse everyone of being a Rigol shill. I accuse you in turn of being a butthurt Siglent shill. I'm probably a lot closer to the mark.By the way, where are the multiple Rigol employees and distributors making aggressive posts about the superiority of their products? Haven't seen any lately..

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 01:29:38 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 14, 2018, 12:09:42 amWell perhaps they should consider supplying parts for customers and their global distributors, in an organized manner not 'randomly',it has been done before many times and successfully by others,been there, paid for the parts, fitted, doneif I stuffed up (unlikely), I would re-order the parts and not blame the parts or tools or parts supplierI didn't accuse 'everyone' nor you of anything, and I don't get paid to shill for anyone,if I did it would be out in the open and wouldn't be plugging and defending half baked productI only report my personal experiences with Brand A or B if it helps the next bloke with his/her shopping trekI don't know where "multiple Rigol employees and distributors making aggressive posts about the superiority of their products" are, should I ?Perhaps surfing online to get a clue what percentage of peaved customers there are out there ?and fire up a meeting in the cafeteria to sort something out asap

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:00:40 am
content: Quote from: JLM on May 10, 2018, 10:14:37 pmI'd be disappointed in test equipment that failed after three years of normal use. I'm used to much longer trouble-free equipment life. Examples: Fluke 8020B- 40 years old, still working fine. HP 34401A - 17 years old, still fine. Dell laptop - 11 years old, still fine.An ADSL modem recently failed on me, after 13 years of 24/7 operation - ok, sad to see it go. A Seagate HDD is failing on me now, with some unrecoverable sector errors, after 12 years - ok, sad to see it go, but what a great performance.Sometimes I wonder if we passed through a golden age of computer and test equipment, in the 1990s, and we've been going downhill ever since the financial crash in 2008. Most of my test equipment pre-dates the crash.Post-crash example: I recently got an Acer laptop that was faulty right out of the box (confirmed by Acer's own service dept.). It wasn't for me, so, mistakenly, I didn't do the usual homework I'd do for my own gear. This is the first time in my entire career I have ever seen a factory-new product with a hardware fault. I have a "one and done" rule, so Acer is now on my blacklist.Another example: a new D-Link ADSL modem installed as a stop-gap, until the AVM Fritz!Box unit I actually wanted turned up. The D-Link unit loses its port-forwarding settings after a few days, despite what the GUI displays. D-Link, you are one-and-done. Wǎn’ān!Thanks for your post. Rigol is still on my "do not buy" list. Three years is just too short for my needs, and yeah, like you, I expect more.

author: isometrik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 03:11:21 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 13, 2018, 06:50:14 pmReminds me of this...

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 03:43:51 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 13, 2018, 09:43:41 amIt's great that you are reading my emails, but no -- that wasn't it. This was standard warranty service. I have the service order in front of me. The service department told me point blank "PSU failure is not covered under warranty" They may have been lying or misleading, but at no point did anyone mention a NAND flash problem and the service order says standard repair service / method of payment: warranty. They were offering us warranty coverage "bonus" because A) we buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of keysight VNAs and spectrum analyzers and they want to keep us happy, and B) they would much rather sell us extended warranties than do occasional out of warranty repairs. The whole experience was actually not great, with long delays and me having to prod people to get them to do things, like screwing up the pickup arrangements and not following up.This is not to knock keysight. They make some really great equipment. But they aren't magic. They don't "take care of you for life", they don't always have perfect service.

author: xani
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 06:51:50 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on May 14, 2018, 02:00:40 amIMO looong time ago. On one side you get stuff that is smaller, both in die and device size and in some (... all?) cases that causes long-term reliability problems, especially with stuff like flash memory and is harder to repair. Maybe not as bad in TE case but still there.On the other, there is race to the bottom so you don't get as much safety margins, overdesign and "design for repair" as in older devices.And where margins are lower, "being nice to customer" doesn't pay the bills

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 08:30:26 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on May 14, 2018, 03:43:51 amYou talked with dealer, not keysight. You said they wanted to sell you extended warranty. PSU not covered under normal warranty is nonsense and simply not true.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 08:41:38 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 13, 2018, 11:51:57 amThe law does vary from one country to another.For example in the UK, the law doesn't set arbitrary limits on warranty period, just that the product should last for a reasonable length of time and be of a reasonable quality for the price paid. The trouble is this is subjective, but it has the advantage that a company can't sell you an expensive product and refuse to repair it when it fails just outside the warranty period.In this instance this is in the US, so check the consumer law over there. One may also argue that three years is reasonable, given the price.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 14, 2018, 08:41:38 amIMO this assertive is highly contradictory and fails to give protection to the businesses that want to deal in fairness in your country. That tends to raise the local prices (I know this by personal experience) and increases the grey market.In the original stated case, the OP is clearly dissatisfied with the warranty period and the law gives margin for litigation.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:04:48 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 14, 2018, 02:00:45 pmThen he should have purchased a device with a longer warranty period.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:24:18 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 14, 2018, 02:04:48 pm3 years is pretty generous for electronics. Who gives a longer one?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 14, 2018, 08:41:38 amIn practice it means that Britons in many cases only get 1y warranty instead of 2y EU standard. And only nut jobs who want to fight and don't have a better way to spend their time get their warranty extended through the court.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:46:43 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 14, 2018, 02:04:48 pmExactly. In a true free market this is the exsct course of action. Laws are only a good strategy when there is clear evidence of a cartel among players.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 14, 2018, 02:27:45 pmI've never heard anything about the standard 2 year warranty. Does it apply to everything? If so, that's pretty daft to expect the same warranty on a 1 Euro calculator, as a 5000 Euro oscilloscope!No, it doesn't work like that in the UK. Most manufacturer warranties are the same as in the EU. Plus we have the added bonus of having the opportunity to claim for something outside the warranty period, if it's unreasonable that it failed, although I do admit most people are ignorant of this and don't.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 13, 2018, 10:37:47 pmIf two DSOs don't provide a sufficient availability then buy more. Get also some from other vendors and store a few at another location in case your lab is hit by a major disaster. Don't forget preventive maintenance for the stored DSOs or cycle the units by using each DSO for some time. It's a simple game of numbers. Arguing that two DSOs aren't any better in terms of availability than a single one because both could fail is ignoring math. Even five could fail but the possibility decreases with the number of units. It's clear that this would be overdoing things, though it's basic engineering as done in aerospace and carrier grade networks for example.I fully understand that someone is angry about a broken device. At the same time it should be obvious that any device can/will break at some point in time. So please don't lament on a broken inexpensive DSO and the lack of first class support and a loaner unit when you haven't bought that service. When you ask around you'll find also people with Keysight (add your favorite here) devices which broke just after the standard warranty has ended and some with Rigol/Siglent (add your el cheapo here) still running fine after years of usage, and vice versa of course. We don't have the exact numbers, just the feedback of some users and our personal experience with a few devices.Just another example: I've got a Rigol cheapy and a much more expensive DSO (Hameg, now R&S). So far the expensive one required a repair (luckily for a very reasonable sum) and has an annoying bug which won't be fixed. I've found the bug at a time when some shops were still selling that model. Hameg is known for good quality and long lasting scopes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 03:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: precaud on May 14, 2018, 02:24:18 pmGW Instek has a limited lifetime warranty on their scopes which ends 5 years after they stop making the particular model.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 04:02:16 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 14, 2018, 02:51:13 pmhttps://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htmIn EU 2 year warranty is minimum unless it's something disposable.Quote

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 04:10:47 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 14, 2018, 03:30:02 pmAFAIK it's only on selected models and if you register the product after purchase. Say GDS-2000E series have only 3y warranty.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 04:19:30 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 14, 2018, 02:51:13 pmThen look:https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/warranty/products/uk-ireland-universal-warranty.htmlThen look what Acer offers:https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/standard-warrantyAll that is 1y will be 1y in UK and 2y in the rest of EU due to the law. HP also offers 1y on many products. Manufacturer may refuse to cover 2 years (like Apple) but seller is still responsible.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 06:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 14, 2018, 08:30:26 amNo, I talked with Keysight directly. It turns out that I am not an idiot, and I know the difference between Keysight and a distributor. Keysight told me that PSUs are not covered under the standard warranty. They may have relayed information incorrectly, but that is exactly what they told me, directly from Keysight. I literally have the emails, service order contract, and extended warranty quote directly from keysight. I don't know why you insist that I am making this up and think you "know" what happened despite not being involved, but you are completely wrong.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 07:33:07 pm
content: I dunno what happened. I know 2 things: 1. it was after warranty expired. 2. PSU is covered under normal warranty.As I said. They might think it's covered by service note for warranty extension. And when they discovered that it's not, failed to explain it properly.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 08:34:45 pm
content: FWIW: My DS4000 died about 5 years after me buying it.I contacted RIGOL, they offered to take it in and look at it but said thatbased on my descriptionof the problem it's PROBABLY the power supply that's failed and they happily sold me a replacement - which was shipped promptly.Obviously the powersupply WASN'T the problem but that's beside the point and having a KNOWN working PSU allowed me to further diagnose the problem and eventually fix it.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 09:20:58 am
content: That's good to hear they at least made an effort to assist a customeraka a possible repeat customer at that

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 09:31:26 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 14, 2018, 04:19:30 pmIf that table is correct, then whilst the UK still is part of the EU, the warranty should also comply with EU law, unless the UK has an opt-out.Also note that the warranty is in addition to what's required by consumer law. Even after the warranty has expired, it may still be reasonable for the manufacturer to cover some things, if it's deemed unreasonable for them to fail.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 10:10:54 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 16, 2018, 09:31:26 amUK is a special snowflake within EU, just as always.QuoteUK very vaguely interprets this EU requirement.QuoteThis sure sounds better than:QuoteExcept it's the same as comparing apples vs oranges. Those years are not the same. In Germany, it's a minimum, period. In UK, it's basicallyQuote from: Hero999 on May 14, 2018, 08:41:38 amwithin those years.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 10:57:33 am
content: so this thread will not end yet? and turned into Rigol China should follow UK/EU regulation? so since Rigol China is not complying, why dont UK/EU ban their products? but since its not banned by them, then UK/EU is to be blamed, go sue them.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 12:55:38 pm
content: Hint: The EU legal warranty applies to the seller, not to the manufacturer.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 12:58:13 pm
content: Warranty onsecond handgoods?!? Does that open a case for eBay and private transactions as well?If that is true, I am in favor of some consumer protection laws but that sounds quite absurd - I would rather throw a used equipment away instead of risk being exposed to a lawsuit years after a sale.Consumer protection at the expense of consumer buying power...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:12:51 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 16, 2018, 12:58:13 pmThis doesn't apply to private transactions to my knowledge. That would be fairly mad.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:28:18 pm
content: I commented my experience with Rigol, I had until a couple of days ago a problem of compensation of probes. here is my problem documented, a month after sending mail to rigol china they got in touch with me, asking me for images, videos and tests performed on the failure, since I requested being under warranty to sell me a new pcb since shipping costs high sun response of rigolThey told me what were the steps to follow in search of the defect, which fortunately seems to have been solved, that in case of being a problem of main board, they would send me one free of charge, I would only pay $ 75 shipping cost, but I kept in mind that it would void the warranty, but they understood my problem, so I followed the steps for now they hit the target with the problem and it works perfectly. so with me rigol china, he behaved well not so Tequipment that only limited himself to respond "COMUNIQUESE CON RIGOL."in spanishcomento mi experiencia con Rigol, tuve hasta hace un par de dias un problema de compenzacion de sondas. aca esta documentado mi problema, al mes de enviar mail a rigol china se pusueron en contacto conmigo, pidiendome imagenes, videos y testeos realizados sobre la falla, ya que yo solicitaba estando en garantia que me vendieran una nueva pcb ya que los costos de envio sol altos. respuesta de rigolMe dijieron cuales eran los pasos a seguir en busca del defecto, que por suerte parece haberce solucionado, que en caso de ser un problema de main board, me enviarian una sin cargo alguno, solo abonoaria U$S 75 de costo de envio, pero que tuviera en cuenta que anularia la garantia, pero comprendian mi problema, asi que segui los pasos por ahora dieron en el blanco con el problema y funciona perfectamente. asi que conmigo rigol china, se comporto bien no asi Tequipment que solo se limito a responde "COMUNIQUESE CON RIGOL."

author: TassiloH
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 16, 2018, 01:12:51 pmIt "kind of" applies: A private seller is allowed to exclude the legal guarantee, but if he doesn't, the provisions of the law apply. That is why on ebay (at least in Germany) in offers from private sellers you'll find some kind of warranty exclusion.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 02:01:28 pm
content: Quote from: madires on May 16, 2018, 12:55:38 pmmeaning the sellers will be at lost? they will provide free repair, but main Rigol China will charge them for the repair if they choose to send the item back to mainland. i dont find it fair to the sellers. Anyway, Rigol has nothing to do with th regulation. either sellers dont distribute Rigol products, or they need to accept the consequences.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 02:07:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 16, 2018, 02:01:28 pmRigol warranty exceeds minimum required by law.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 02:18:51 pm
content: Yep, it's a business risk. But the sellers consider those additional costs in their calculation, i.e. you , as the customer, will pay a little bit more for the luxury of a legal warranty. And I'd like to add that I meant commercial sellers. Private sellers are exempted. There's a little legal twist for used stuff sold privately as explained by TassiloH, but it's a no-brainer.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 02:28:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 16, 2018, 02:07:18 pmThat's an additional commercial warranty in case of the EU and the manufacturer is quite free to define the terms and conditions for that. If your DSO breaks within the legal warranty period you can choose between the legal and commercial warranty. To reduce costs some commercial sellers will try to push you towards the commercial warranty.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 02:36:43 pm
content: Quote from: madires on May 16, 2018, 02:28:57 pmIf you bring it to the seller, seller will just forward it to Rigol. No difference, except if you cover the shipping on your own.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 04:10:11 pm
content: In case of the EU legal warranty the seller has to pay for shipping and what have you. The commercial warranty may include a clause that you have to pay for shipping. There is more, at least in Germany. The legal warranty demands a repair within a reasonable time, like three weeks (-> compensation or loaner unit if overdue). The commercial warranty may define thee months as acceptable.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 06:03:09 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 16, 2018, 02:01:28 pmNo, that is not the case.In UK and EU law it's the seller, who the consumer has made the contract with, not the manufacturer.The seller doesn't lose out, because they made a contract with the manufacturer, who are obliged to provide them with a refund, replacement or repair.Quote from: rsjsouza on May 16, 2018, 12:58:13 pmI believe that business often throw decent goods away because they don't want to risk warranty claims. I do think it's for the best though. It means any company in the business of selling used goods has to thoroughly inspect them and ensure they're reliable before selling them on. It helps to keep broken goods off the market. There's still a healthy market for second hand cars in the UK for example. Business buy off private individuals (no warranty), then sell them on at a considerable markup, which is justified by providing a warranty. If there were no legal obligation for used car businesses to provide a warranty, then there would be no incentive for the consumer to buy from a used car dealer, rather than a private individual.Personally, I'd never but a brand new vehicle: there's a huge depreciation in value and although there's a warranty, there's no guarantee there won't be and problems. I'd rather buy a used vehicle, of a known good make and model, a couple of years old. I still get a warranty and I make less of a loss when I sell it on, probably for scrap.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 09:25:24 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 16, 2018, 06:03:09 pmThe way I see this, an umbrella fixed warranty for anything regardless of the nature of the product negatively impacts the system: businesses that need to divest still usable capital goods will pay to companies that will most likely either fill the landfill or simply export to recycling poor regions of the world. This tends to increase local consumerism if the goods are computers, monitors and other household items that could easily be recycled locally, given that local repair shops may become inviable.Quote from: Hero999 on May 16, 2018, 06:03:09 pmUsed car market is also a healthy market in my home country (Brazil) as well as here in the US, where the warranties are either negotiated or bare minimum (90 days) - the risk then becomes based on the amount you want to pay for the car by means of extended warranties or other deails.Quote from: Hero999 on May 16, 2018, 06:03:09 pmNo wonder; I would do the same if I had two more years of warranty on a product where the manufacturer's warranty was long gone; well, provided the retailer is still in business then.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 10:32:30 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 16, 2018, 09:25:24 pmI agree with there are downsides.QuoteThat's not good for the consumer, but at least the seller is obliged to give some kind of warranty.QuoteI think you've missed the point here. As far as the law is concerned in most countries: the manufacturer warranty means nothing to the end user. It's the seller who is responsible for the warranty and any after sales support, since the seller is the person the consumer handed the money to and got a receipt from. I admit I don't know about the law in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's similar, even if companies want to keep the consumer ignorant.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 11:52:12 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on May 16, 2018, 10:32:30 pmThe way I know it is that, while the retailers are the ones performing the services and retaining the money, the manufacturers are the ones backing up their retailer network. In practice, you can send your car to be repaired under the manufacturer's warranty period at any brand retailer shop. This would not happen if each retailer was left to fend off by themselves.I have experienced myself and seen friends go through similar scenarios that required direct manufacturer intervention due to manufacturing/assembly defects straight from the plant.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 01:51:10 am
content: Sadly, I've come to see how I have come to the conclusion that paid trolls to protect corporate interests by several now widespread techniques, can be seen to act even on this eevblog forum.I urge anyone reading the postings here to first understand the technique of distracting the viewer from the original topic.First, understand the definition of "Red Herring", a propaganda device that can be used to shift the topic of a post away from its original intent.Secondly, I would strongly urge anyone to view this link. It is very short but very important video showing how website opinions that would try to criticize a company can usually be muted or trampled by corporate special interests:Astroturf and Manipulation of Media: A TEDX short talk on this subject.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU&feature=youtu.be

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 07:04:24 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 28, 2018, 01:51:10 amWhat can I say. If you see conspiracy in this thread, you should really visit a doctor.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 06:11:25 am
content: What I can see in this thread, is that there are lots of members who find reactions that differs from their own, to be offensive enough to ridicule the person describing their reactions and opinions.It is pack mentality, not a conspiracy. It often feels like a conspiracy, because the opposition presents a shifting wall of people making singular snipes and then vanishing, rather than discussing the idea itself on its merits. It is a pack attack, not discussion.It is very unfortunate, because actual real-world experiences,no matter what they are, are informative to those of us who do not have enough experience to set correct expectations yet. There is a lot of value in those, and zero value in"You need psychiatric help"and"You're wrong, because I believe you are wrong, and I'm right"type of responses.It is very surprising, too, because this forum seems to be quite friendly, and I have not seen the kind of "this is the way things are, and how they must be, and you should go away" type of reaction in other topics. Therefore, seeing the responses as conspiracy-like, is not that odd.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:10:43 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 29, 2018, 06:11:25 amI never was offensive, in the whole course of this topic. Fact that dozen people pointed out that you are wrong in your interpretation of how warranty and service is being done today simply means you are wrong. Not a single manufacturer of the scope would give you any other answer or different service in your case. Even for scopes that 3-4 times more expensive. Unless you paid additionally for some service level agreement type of maintenance contract with them. In which case, you would still need to comply with some rules as prescribed in said contract.We are friendly. At least I know I am, coming from a position of truth and realistic expectations, trying to explain that you are wrong in this case.I also expressed that I also, like you, would like better service.. But it ain't gonna happen. I explained why, industry was different before, it was driven by military contracts that paid for support structure the way it was before. World changed. It no longer make sense to keep spare parts for the board where CPU cost more than whole motherboard with CPU already soldered in.The old way will never come back, and it shouldn't. On old Tek scopes, there were many spare parts where single components would cost more than a whole new DS4014 by Rigol.So, my friend, it's time to go with the program, change with the world and adapt to how it works now. Resistance is futile....Have a good one.Sinisa

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 08:01:28 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 29, 2018, 07:10:43 amIf you do not consider your previous message, "", offensive, then your definition is very different to mine.Quote from: 2N3055 on May 29, 2018, 07:10:43 amNo. You exhibit the typical group mentality I mentioned before. You believe you are good, and therefore whatever you think must be right and good also.You are definitely not friendly; you are simply not hostile to those you think are "with you".Quote from: 2N3055 on May 29, 2018, 07:10:43 amLike they said in South Park, I'm not your friend, guy.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 08:23:51 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 29, 2018, 06:11:25 amDifferent doesn't mean bad, this jargon is gaining popularity lately that its oftenly used and way over generalized, which it self a bad "and wrong" practice.Say you like to walk in the street, and like to decapitate and chop off innocent people heads, yeah, you are different and definitely you're bad "and wrong" too.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 09:41:46 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 28, 2018, 01:51:10 amWhatever the 'paid troll' deal is here and all over the sinternet and especially Faceb00k...a solar powered Astroturf Meter kit would be a winner, or phone appor browser plugin if dollars are short

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 10:28:35 am
content: Thanks, Nominal Animal for not being intimidated by the bullies and the wolves and expressing your opinion.IMHO, it is an obvious myth that a company can't do better for itself by bettering its customer support or that any attempt to to try better to help their customers must be an unconditional guaranteed path to business failure and bankruptcy.This is the topic of the original post. But, once again, I have been astroturfed, and labeled mentally ill, a conspiracy fanatic for just voicing my opinion about my experience with Rigol customer service.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 12:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 29, 2018, 10:28:35 amFirst claim is exactly the reason to doubt your sanity and suspecting paranoia. Not to say, none of a few Rigol fans present on the forum ever posted in this tread.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 01:40:25 pm
content: My bank balance would really like to get in on this whole paid troll thing.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 29, 2018, 10:28:35 amI disagree with you there. To me the main topic of the original post was: "do you guys think it is unreasonable to expect a test gear manufacturer will provide free (or low cost) repair services after the expiration of the contracted warranty?". Given the OP opened the discussion with a rant and a rather inflated tone and did not explicitly state what he was trying to achieve with this, he opened the venue for opinions.QuoteThroughout the discussion many examples were given to state the case for and against Rigol (including yours) as well as their experience with other brands. All this was done to clarify that, in modern times with such fragmented market operating with lower profit margins, it shouldn't be taken for granted the same level of service obtained from manufacturers in past decades. Obviously there is a gap here that could be filled by one of them, but it shouldn't be taken for granted.As for astroturfing: the more you stick around, the more you identify who prefers what - but really none of the regulars seems to be in a position of conspiring together to push forward a false narrative. It is really difficult to BS folks around here without hard data.Besides, when asking for information or opinion, I really don't think that any single public forum should be taken with that level of seriousness, especially with so many other sources of information available: Youtube, blogs, other forums, etc.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pm
content: rsjsousa: if you could edit your response a little, please, it seems to repeat sentences over and over. This doesn't help your make your point.------------Besides some other techniques utilized in astroturfing, the TEDx video points out how criticism is trampled by use of shaming, name-calling, inflammatory language and using other other manipulative ways to distract posters from the discussing the topic.It can be misrepresenting what a poster said pr even resorting to attacking minutia like typos, or responding to a poster using insults and degrading language.I expressed my thoughts, but then, totally unexpected, someone clowning me about my soldering..oh really?Calling me delusional, saying I am conspiracy fanatic, that I am mentally ill, that I am an "old fart"..this is way out of line!All this noise only serves to distract, annoy, helps to prevent people to choose not to comment on the original topic, and that intimidation serves some purpose other than allowing discussing the merits or presenting opinions about the original topic.i don't claim there exists a conspiracy, but to exhibit such offensive behavior in reply, one can only ask, why would anyone bother to take the time to go so far out of their way to defend a company in this manner, unless they had some axe to grind..

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 10:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pmDuh, what an idiot (me, not you) - I tend to copy my replies to the clipboard before clicking on "post", so I can avoid any surprises (forum eating my reply, connection timeout, etc.). In this case I think I inadvertently pressed Ctrl-V.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 12:00:24 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pmMental issues or an easy paycheck, or both?-----------------------ok, it's obvious by now how they go to work on the messenger at most if not all forums, with Faceb00k being the clear winner and hands down best example of in your face organized trolling,and no shortage of it on Youtube either.It's always the same methods with a bit of good troll/bad troll thrown in to set up the unaware well meaning debatervictimfor the fallThat aside, can anyone sort of hint on what the Astroturf gig might pay, and if any 'friends benefits'?i.e. as an example, if their 'donated, loaned, extended evaluation' or otherwise Rigol gear goes belly up, does Rigol cop the repair bill or new unit,or does the peaved Astroturfer have to fork out from their own pocket, and endeavor to persevere with the same service their Astroturfed targets enjoy?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 06:16:22 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 29, 2018, 09:29:05 pmDon't you realize that it's you who distracted this thread from the main topic more than anyone else?QuoteSuspected paranoia again. Nobody ridiculedyoursoldering skill. There was given an image of bad soldering as example why manufacturer would not trust someone to do DIY repair. In no way that post said anything about your skill.QuoteSuspected paranoia yet again. "Old farts" wasn't even said about you. It was said by old man about some old people in general who forgot how things were in the past. Seriously, if you think that things said in general are an attack directly on YOU, there should be something wrong with you.https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/paranoiaQuotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ParanoiaQuote

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 10:19:08 am
content: I can see I can't win here. If I respond to your attack I am only feeding your fire and again this only serves to move the topic from customer service to emotional rants about the sanity of posters, with me in particular.But at the same time I can't help but wonder on the condition of your mind that allows you to elevate yourself to being a professional online diagnostic psychiatrist.But let me speak for all posters here to thank you for taking time out of your busy day to carefully support your professional diagnosis.However, the fewer the words I can post in reply, the less gasoline into I willingly pour into your distracting fire. I call it the "Troll Paradox". If you don't reply, your silence will serve to validate them, if you do reply you only serve to succeed their intent.One thing is certain, you aren't getting your facts straight:"It was said by old man about some old people in general who forgot how things were in the past."1) There is no poster called "old man" on this topic.2) And your quote totally obviously reverses this imaginary posters point, "old farts"doremember, not forget, a time when customer service was better.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 10:28:40 am
content: Paul Price does not come across as a person with paranoia issues, suspected or otherwise,suspected disappointment with slack Rigol support is more likelyLet's drop the usual snarling BS that's been sported UNCHECKED at this forum for far too long and stick to purpose of this post shall we?Where are the Rigol people and their reps lurking at this forum, to sort something out for their loyal peaved customers?If Siglent and HP reps have balls to front up at this forumand make an effort to help their customers, or at least explain why some things can't/won't happen asap,I don't understand why Rigol with their large fan and user base can't make a brief appearance here for some old school damage control at the least

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 10:35:13 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 30, 2018, 10:19:08 am1. Old man means he is old (age), not forum nickname.2. It was said about equipment price, that getting an oscilloscope was a dream for hobbyist.Moreover:Quote from: BravoV on May 13, 2018, 02:36:04 pmIt was particularly implied this is not about you.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 10:45:52 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 30, 2018, 10:28:40 amI just wonder what damage control? There was nothing done wrong on their part. Yes they could bend backwards to make customer happy, but it would be a bonus, not obligation. Again, I'm certainly not a Rigol fan. I wrote so much what won't make Rigol happy, that I'm among the leaders of bashing Rigol. I certainly made some Rigol fans loosing their cool, even calling me Nazi, LOL. Yet I still see nothing wrong in Rigol response in these situations.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 10:53:44 am
content: There's a difference between 'make an effort' and 'bend backwards'either are better than ignoring the customer or hitting their hip pocket HARD

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:00:36 am
content: I don't like repeating myself, but can help to say I've posted,"It is quite another thing that the customer has tobend-over forwardto get repair help or be serviced."

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:03:17 am
content: Quote from: Paul Price on May 30, 2018, 11:00:36 amIf you think that sending oscilloscope for free warranty repair is bending over backwards, then I have no words to say.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:14:21 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 30, 2018, 11:03:17 amSo you're ok with how Rigol have handled these customer requests for service, and no drama if same deal ever happens to you ?Then kindly let the shafted customers have their say here without obstruction, and perhaps the situation may improve for them and future customers

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:24:16 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 30, 2018, 11:14:21 amIf you want to do repair yourself, 95%+ of manufactures won't help you with this. It's simple, don't want to follow standard warranty/out of warranty repair procedure, then you on you're own. Rigol is nothing but a norm in this case. Yet some people are expecting way above average service/support from a budget manufacturer. And for some reason expect other people to support their outrage when things don't happen their way.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:43:06 am
content: Could we all calm down a bit. Basically you get what you pay for! you can't buy equipment for a fraction of the price and then expect goodwill gestures it's not financially viable. Company bureaucracy often prevents just putting a part in a bag and sending it out and no they won't sell it to you, why spend £50 in labour to supply a part worth a tenner?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:00:01 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on May 30, 2018, 11:43:06 amMany of us here may understand by now these newunsustainablecompany bureaucracy business practices set in place, mainly to line clueless investor coffers whilst pushing out semi 'throw away society' product.It's sad but true and only time will tell how far such a pending trainwreck financial fiasco like that can travel uphill, before cogs begin to slip, and or the next major global money meltdown sorts them outand relieves them of their 'hard earned' dividends and capitalThat aside: the parts in this case would be coming from China = cheap labor, parts and shippingRegardless of the source and pricing, the customer may be willing to fork out"...£50 in labour to supply a part worth a tenner", and shipping and duties and any other add on chargeIf a customer wants to blow 60 quid in parts to have a go at repairing a 120 quid DSO hey it's their choice, their reasoning, their money, their wintheir loseThe customer is still 'always right' afaik in any century, though perhaps not in every nation,give them the choice of supply if you want to keep them coming back for more product, lest they 'shop around' ...or bad mouth you on the internet!LOL, even if they're not 'always right' occasionally..., regardless of which nation you're in, give em what they want to get them off your case and out the freakin doorso life as we know it can resume ! Been there!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 06:57:48 am
content: No, if a company has chosen to not sell spares that is that. I see this often at work, we will sell anything but by the time we have sorted many things out involving multiple people I see that is was not worth the effort. This is mostly our fault as we don't have a system designed for a person taking a phone call to look up a price and availability and we do it simply to keep them coming back for larger orders or because we are too stupid to say no. we may sell an item and make £20 but spend an hour trying to identify it.You get what you pay for, why should they invest upfront in a system that can handle spares and then hope for orders? it would be nice if they did but it's their choice and it is yours to buy a much cheaper unit knowing what support is likely to be like and if you didn't guess more fool you.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 07:24:44 am
content: Quote from: Simon on May 31, 2018, 06:57:48 amSay, even your company can afford that, still, will you trust your customer with 3 digits figure priced commodity product, to solder the component them self ?If you do, don't forget to talk to legal dept 1st and prepare the "red tape" needed to protect your company.Wonder if Keysight, R&S, Fluke allowed that for their 4 or 5 digits figure products ?

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 07:48:27 am
content: People have short memories, there are a couple of threads at least about how tough it is to get parts out of Keysight.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 08:04:42 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on May 31, 2018, 07:48:27 amYet, certain people love to praise that how great the Tektronix, Keysight, R&S etc were so great & sooooo generous serving their customers, compared to this shitty damned Rigol.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 09:08:34 am
content: The legal BS can be sorted by getting customers to sign an unconditional legal waiver, so the company can be secure they won't get shafted in court due to any unforeseen customer dumbasseryI signed one a few weeks ago for a meal to get doggie bagged at a beachside coffee/eats placeThe staff were being apolagetic about it till I pulled them up and said it was no problem at all and everything should be done that way in todays times to keep things realand keep the low life unemployable serial sue junkies at bay.I applauded them for the option and will be going back to that place for the good food and service,and because we're cheap with no qualms about doggie bag 'later snacks' and / or bringing back leftover BYO boozeNO SHAME on stuff like thatSince handshakes and integrity seem to be too 'old school' for the millennial know it alls, and cranky old timers with half a foot at deaths door that think they can fit in with themthen a legal waiver in writing is the way to go to keep ones pocket intact.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 06:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 31, 2018, 09:08:34 amAnd who will cover the cost of implementing and running component stock, logistics, and on top of that a legal crap?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 11:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 31, 2018, 06:37:38 pmThe company supplies what's possible and compatible with the system in place and the staff,not go nuts with a full inventory to cater for cheapo dumpster designed products.You might not please everyone, but hey, popping a pair of generic or retrofitable encoders in a stiff carton box to a customer ain't that hardJust get the legal waiver signed, their ID, and most important... money up frontIt's not that hard to figure in advance what possible consumables/wear n tear parts a DSO has > switches, rotary encoders, fans, probes... (add yours here)Tip: you can make good money from that stuff, keep fired up DIY techs calm,AND bail out authorized stockists** and their repairers out of a parts jamrather than have to take back a lemon that just needs some bits that the local distributor may want to wear the cost of (and keep the customer satisfied),plus save the manufacturer/supplier broken balls having to address such trivial complaints in their viewLet's not forget those 'customers' too**, they have enough to deal with flogging the products, and don't need corporat bureaucrapcy friendly fire on top-----------------------------If former reputation driven companies, now run by greed driven bean counters catering for lazy investards, are not going to bother doing any of this pita 'service' stuff,they should include it in the hard copy and PDF user manuals and website,that after a certain period the product will no longer be supported in ANY capacity...this is not a new concept btwi.e."#$%# OFF orbuy a new one bro, and it's not our fault someone on Ebay or CL stiffed you with a dud,and now you wanna fix it yourself and we got no parts or schematics, so you think we should share some of your butthurt?It's just one of those SOL things that happens bro, so just deal with it,Yoll have a nice day..."

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 11:15:57 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 31, 2018, 11:08:53 pmIt is not going to work because by the time an encoder goes out the door it will cost $25 to the customer due to procurement, write-off, storage, shipping and handling costs. And then people WILL complain they feel they get shafted because they can buy 'the same' encoders from Aliexpress for 25 cents shipped from China

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 11:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 31, 2018, 11:08:53 pmThe only thing you can make on selling encoders are financial losses. You need big turnaround and highly automated process to make any money on that.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 04:25:25 am
content: Merry go round...The customer will either find out or be advised that -they can get 'the same' encoders from Aliexpress for 25 cents shipped from China-,and avoid a shaftingMost anyone having a go at DSO DIY may already know that anyway (especially tipped off EEVblogites and Youtube)What they can't get from Aliexpress is schematics, Firmware updates and bits and bobs the manufacturer should have on hand,or at the least know what the parts are required, advise the customer, and let the customer deal with the sourcing 'online'Come on guys, surely some of you here have done the service counter gig along your travelsIt's not that hard to sort out 99.99% of issuesand the few troubletards that live to break balls no matter what you do for the A-holicsyou can always tell em to #$%# OFF if they insist on going 'there'

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 02:16:37 pm
content: So first you say it's not hard to supply spare parts and not lose money, then you say the customer will just get them somewhere else cheaper.Which is it? Can they avoid pissing money into the wind or not?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 05:06:06 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 01, 2018, 02:16:37 pmExactly. If an instrument is comprised of run of the mill parts, go find their replacements somewhere else and assume all risk.Mechanical and cosmetic parts are another story, as well as displays - frequently they are either custom made or impossible to buy per unit.Anybody that tried to sell replacement parts in this day and age knows it is a loss game, especially internationally with the various regulations regarding to warranty, returns, etc.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 11:33:47 pm
content: I'm not playing the loop game guys, you either get it or you don'tI value the 'customer', because they are THE main generator for 'industry and sales'if smartass corporat companies nowadays want to conveniently 'forget' that, they can go under for all I care and go feather themselves with bureaucrapcyand eventually get bought out for peanuts on the dollar,and or do multiple name changes and logos to try and attract new suckers to buy their short term supported dumpster designed productsNot everyone has to think that way, but I'm confident a few here doperhaps some of the closet 'paid trolls' too--------------------I'm curious if this post has swayed any Rigol owners/fans to consider looking at the competition for their next gear aquisitionespecially if they're experiencing symptoms of"Disappointed In Rigol Service"

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 07:37:21 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 01, 2018, 11:33:47 pmYou keep on repeating things that are not realistic or truth, calling all of us collectively stupid and trolls, while all the time you are the only one that didn't contribute anything to this discussion except provoking .By your own admission, you own no Rigol equipment, have no experience with them as a company yet keep flaming them like they wronged you somehow.What is your agenda?, except sabotaging discussion and trying to rile up a bar fight... Do YOU have some gain and/or unethical reason to hate Rigol even when they are not at fault?So once again, please, stop trolling this topic if you have nothing of essence to contribute. Please.Don't do that. I 'm polite here, please don't. You don't need that, we don't need that.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 09:11:28 am
content: Relax buddy, no one is calling you anythingnor is anyone forcing, compelling or baiting you to read or participate at this thread.Do you own any Rigol gear yourself? If yes, is it working ok so far? GreatThen why should there be a problem with people that are "Disappointed In Rigol Service" and having a good whinge ?I support them because I won't tolerate slack service from any company, Rigol or otherwise, especially on recent gear at any price pointIt's threads like this that make reps and manufacturers take notice, and perhaps encourage them to consider to lift their game at support and service

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 09:28:04 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 02, 2018, 09:11:28 amBecause those people are not only whining in public space but also accuse others for astroturfing when someone does not agree with them.QuoteThan just start 100 another threads about another manufacturers as this is default experience you will get.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 09:34:52 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 02, 2018, 09:11:28 amDefine slack service. No companies won't take notice you are talking rubbish. It's the race to the bottom, if Rigol are offering no better service than say tektronix yet cost 1/3 then how will they ever lose out cause one guy on the internet is whinging?

author: David Chamberlain
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 10:38:05 am
content: 7 pages.. did OP get a free replacement multimeter from Rigol yet?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 10:48:01 pm
content: I hope so, and a couple of rotary encoders chucked in for Ron