multiple connectable buttons and knobs as a custom special USB keyboard? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 12:23:02 am
content: I think some people might like to have multiple pushbuttons for special functions, that can be connected, e.g. in a row, two rows, or other shapes. Is there already such a product? I found some single USB pushbuttons, but this is not nice, if you e.g. want 5 buttons.Another type with the same case could be a rotary encoder. Then you could combine some knobs and pushbutton for your custom input device, e.g. for changing the volume of speaker and mic (there are keyboards with a rotary encoder, but usually only one), or for music production or live performances.Would this be a product people would buy? How should the case look like? Maybe a hexagon? How could I connect the cases in a stable way?

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 04:16:02 am
content: I think they're called gaming keypads - Though with more then 5 buttons.http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/best-gaming-keypads/

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 04:47:28 am
content: You can also get mice or other peripherals with extra buttons or knobs, and you can get midi controllers and other things which are specifically marketed towards music creation (you can get large, backlit, button matrices designed for controlling sample playback in realtime, for example).

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 07:38:44 am
content: Gaming keyboards would be another good applications for it. But I was thinking of something like this:So a USB connected version ofFlicorthis one, but they don't have to produce a custom case for you, but you can combine the buttons and knobs yourself as you like. But I don't know if it is ergonomic enough to be a gaming keyboard.A MIDI button matrix would be another good example. The user could create something like this with it, but without any soldering etc., only in hex shape:https://learn.adafruit.com/untztrument-trellis-midi-instrumentMy idea is that the Master Controller automatically detects all attached buttons and knobs, and you can see it with a PC app. It could have MIDI output as well and with the PC app you could configure the MIDI channels you want, but then it could operate in standalone mode as a MIDI controller, just powering it from the USB port.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 08:19:04 am
content: Quote from: cs.dk on March 17, 2017, 04:16:02 am*than

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 11:56:21 am
content: There have been other attempts at modular customizable control hardware, such as this MIDI controller:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/345524876/mine-modular-controllerI think the economics of such products are difficult. You have a relatively limited market of people who care *that* much about the number and type of buttons--basically the gaming market, where you're also competing with a ton of mass-produced consumer products, and the professional specialist software market, where you have a small audience who will be willing to pay decent money for something if it really helps their workflow, but you'll be competing with a few established manufacturers of specialized controllers, eg in the CAD, video editing, and music making markets. Plus you have all of the mechanical challenges of making a modular, plug-together system which add to the cost and then once you've designed it a modular system is more work to sell (more SKUs to build and stock, more handling costs to fulfill orders, and your margin gets spread out thinner).

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 12:11:39 pm
content: Note sure if this is what you are referring to but there are keyboards with macro buttons: I have ahttp://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/gaming-keyboard-g510and its brilliant!Three Selectors and 18 buttons per selection = 54 configurable buttons/macros .. and you can create multiple profiles so 54 macros for Game1, 54 macros for Game2, etcDoesn't have rotary encoders or switches thoughI play X-Plane a lot and was looking for something you suggest - an add-on board with buttons/macros + rotary encoders + switches - couldn't find one so made my own with an arduino (but its X-Plane specific and connects via UDP, rather than presenting itself as a HID).If you do make one the flight sim community is a potential market and the idea of a modular one is great, especially if it's designed so you can easily add different labels - eg gear up/down, flaps.Edit: Let me know if you need a beta-tester!

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 12:17:22 pm
content: as educational aids. this type of custom connectable-buttons-and-knobs can be set up as part of a educational demonstration of electronics engineering at work. if students are given assignment to test & make a controller for an ergonomics project. quick changes can be made as needed in testing, without a lot of new fabrication.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 12:26:56 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on March 17, 2017, 11:56:21 amLooks good, but a bit expensive, EUR 215, but it still got 85 backers and EUR 22,340 of the EUR 150,000 goal. And right, ist has just MIDI output (via USB), this is a bit limited. If they would support HID devices, too, like a keyboard, the target audience would be much bigger. But then it looks like one of those MIDI controllers. For gamers one of those already available special keyboards might be better.But then a project like this, with just one knob (and two switches, and the knob and switches detect touches), was successfully backed, so there is a market for such devices:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/330654825/nob-one-knob-controls-it-all/descriptionI don't know, maybe the video helped, compared to the MIDI project? All very stylish, including the look of the button. And only one button costs EUR 114.

author: mubes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 01:42:11 pm
content: There are plenty of these around that are targeted for audio use and appear as HCI devices. Checkout Novation for examples...Those often optionally have pots. I keep threatening to use one to control a smartscope but never seem to find the time....Dave

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2017, 09:46:12 pm
content: Quote from: mubes on March 17, 2017, 01:42:11 pmCan't find anything about HCI devices, do you mean HID? Novation seems to have only full keyboards, and very specialized for turntables, and some piano keyboards:https://novationmusic.de/accessoriesMaybe I'll just build a prototype and try to sell it on Kickstarter to see if someone wants it

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2017, 01:41:23 pm
content: It's now at "quirky.com", an interesting collaboration site:https://www.quirky.com/invent/309418I can do all the electronics, software and prototype, but maybe I can find someone who has good ideas for the look, because I'm not good with 3D design. Once it has something in all 5 categories, Quirky shows it partners who can produce it. This sounds really like a good idea, because I don't like all the manufacturing, packing and shipping, but I can concentrate on developing the hardware and software.

author: mubes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 10:13:30 pm
content: Sorry, meant HID not HCI...Brain not in gear.Take a look athttps://uk.novationmusic.com/launch....Are any of those in line with the kind of thing you're thinking of? I think there's an opening for smaller/simpler devices than these, perhaps communicating over i2c or something, but they might give you some ideas to start from.Dave

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 10:38:14 pm
content: Quote from: mubes on March 22, 2017, 10:13:30 pmThe buttons look really nice, I saw similar ones in other MIDI gear. Where can I buy them, just the buttons? For testing I already ordered some round pushbuttons with an RGB LED ring, which looks nice, too, but might be not as user friendly when you need to press them often or fast. I also thought about capsense buttons, but personally I don't like it when there is no physically feedback, e.g. couldn't use such a thing as my standard PC keyboard, or as a piano (yes, I tried a piano on iPad, it's terrible compared to my Yamaha P85).The difference to my idea is that the user can customize his/her own keyboard. My assumption was that usually you want just a handful of often used extra elements like the Novation Dicer, otherwise you would use some of the bigger keyboards and pushbutton matrix pads.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 11:21:42 pm
content: Grab a Teensy2.1 put this in:https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/wiki/Custom-Keyboard-using-a-Teensy-3.0-3.1-3.2Wire the custom keyboard, and its done.Its like used in everything related to diy and lots of more niche mech keyboards all use the atmega32u4 and derivatives of that code.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 11:49:42 pm
content: Quote from: senso on March 22, 2017, 11:21:42 pmThanks for the suggestion, but I've already programmed a few HID devices, here is an open source device I did:http://hackaday.com/2011/07/31/commodore-64-usb-controller-adapter-for-your-pc/A Teensy would be too small, because I plan to provide USB MIDI and USB HID on the same USB port, and then using the vendor specific data feature of HID devices for reading and writing configuration data. But this is all no problem, I will use some bigger STM32 or NXP LPC microcontroller. The LPC series has the useful feature that you can boot it in firmware mode (stored in ROM), then it shows up as a thumb drive on your PC and you can just copy a new firmware file to it. No software or even additional hardware needed for a firmware update.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 12:32:22 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on March 22, 2017, 10:38:14 pmThe Launchpad buttons are custom made - a silicone moulding for the buttons, each with a conductive pad and a pcb contact.This midi device has a useful selection of buttons and rotary encoders :https://www.arturia.com/products/hybrid-synths/beatstep/overview

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 01:31:25 am
content: Quote from: artag on March 23, 2017, 12:32:22 amOk, I know such buttons, I think it doesn't feel good when you press it. I would like to have such buttons like my Mac Book Pro has, or such low profile keys like on my black Dell keyboard I'm currently typing on. But with additional RGB backlights.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 03:41:06 am
content: You can not beat a dedicated button for some things. You forgot toggle switches and sliders(faders) though.I have a big fat aluminium knob that I paid too much for some years ago. It seemed to have firmware issues though and conflicted with some other usb devices.I think you're onto something here. Assemble with magnets, power through said magnets, comms over power or encrypted BTLE. Or powered with a cr2032 and BTLE encrypted HID comms.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 08:18:16 pm
content: Quote from: apelly on March 23, 2017, 03:41:06 amI thought about magnets, littleBits does this, see theirbitsnaps.But I don't know if this is stable enough. Maybe it is better to use standard pin headers? And squares instead of hexagons? Then it could be arranged in both ways, staggered like a normal keyboard, or ortholinear in a matrix. An idea, bottom side:The keys would have pin header receptacles and then you could connect it with small lego-like bricks (I need to improve the design, so that there are pockets around the receptacles and the bricks are planar with the bottom of the keys when plugged in). To make it easy, I need 4 connections from one key to another: VCC, GND, serial send, and serial receive.Problem with this construction is that it results in relatively big keys, because the pin headers have to be in the center of the right and left side, on each of the 4 sides. With hexagonal keys it would be staggered by default, but you could make it ortholinear, if you add a row of dummy elements. Then it could be smaller, too, because I need only one 4-pin-header-connection on each of the 6 sides.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 08:51:16 pm
content: as a gamer-high quality Gaming pads & keyboards must be rugged also be resistant to moisture!any tool for product development or educational aids may not necessarily meet the same requirements.we all love lego, but Im not buying a keyboard or 3d printer made from lego, as an end user product.put simply some modular systems are better off as development or educational tools.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 09:11:45 pm
content: It would be a lot more stable than lego. Of course you know the standard pin headers. It would be 2x2 on each side:They are alone would provide fairly stable connections, better than lego. But when combined with a lego-like brick outline for the connector bits, maybe even solid, and matching pockets in the keys, I think it will be rock solid for any practical purpose.Why does it need to be resistant to moisture? This would be difficult, but it should be possible to clean it with water, e.g. if you pour Cola over it, as you can do with normal keyboards. I know someone who puts his keyboard in the dishwasher (but without detergents) and it still worksI would never do this to my nice Dell keyboard, cleaning the surface with a wet rag from time to time is all I do.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 09:43:44 pm
content: An idea for the hex construction (again bottom side, pin header proportions are wrong)