What is the best choice of multimeter/clampmeter for me? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: housey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2011, 12:43:33 pm
content: I have started an apprenticeship as an industrial electrician/electrical fitter a few months ago and I am at the point where I really need to buy my own multimeter, and clampmeter if possible (though less essential than a multimeter).The list of tools I will need don't really say much, other than it must be rated to a minimum of CAT 3 1000V/CAT 4 600V, and the only advice I have been given is to buy something fluke.As for my work, alot of it is in pretty tough conditions. In the near future I will be doing some on/off work underground, quite possibly inside a nickel mine. Currently most of my work is out at various sites, one of which that I work ALOT at is a medical disposal facility where it is often 50+ degrees celcius, where I (along with my tools) more often than not end up covered and black and red dust and other things I would rather not think about. Most of it is on 415V and 1000V equipment.So basically what I need is:-CAT 3 1000V rating minimum-multimeter must be able to measure 1000v at a minimum-must work in temperatures up to about 60C, and ideally a storage temperature of say 80 degree's, or however hot it would get inside of a metal toolbox sitting in the sun on a 45C day-Rugged design, will inevitably be dropped from time to time, exposed to corrosive environments and covered in shit for most of its life.I live in Australia but would prefer to buy it over the internet from somewhere else as it will almost definately be cheaper that way. I don't want to skimp at all on my purchase, but that doesn't mean I don't want to get the best value that I can. So which sites are there that have good prices, and which product should I buy? Are there any kits around that include a suitable multimeter and clampmeter? And realistically how much life can I expect out of it before it breaks.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2011, 01:34:47 pm
content: Operational temperature up to 60C is tough, Most Fluke and Agilent meters only go up to 50C or 55C, and storage temp is usually only 60C or 70C without battery (85C for the Fluke 28-II without batteries, 60C with batteries). CAT III 1000V is pretty much standard for high-end industrial multimeters. If the equipment is actually 1000V, a 1000V range may not be enough, though.It sounds like the Fluke 27-II/28-II is the best match, because of your requirements for ruggedness. I think Fluke sells some kits with a DMM and clamp meter, not sure if there are any rugged clamp meters.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2011, 02:01:15 pm
content: It might be worth contacting Fluke customer support for advice on the temperature rating.The company should really be buying the tools, unless you're self employed. If the company pays they don't have to pay tax. If they won't buy you the tools then they should provide an allowance so you don't have to pay tax.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2011, 03:37:50 pm
content: I don't know enough about what you need to make the perfect recommendation, but here are some things to consider:Any decent (Fluke, Agilent, Gossen, Amprobe etc.) 1000V DMM should be able to handle voltages higher than 1000V, but by how much will depend. Worst case scenario should be an out of range message at some point, not failure of the meter.Obviously you will need a dustproof meter but in addition you will want one that doesn't have a recessed or inset screen over the LCD as that will be very hard to clean in the field. Best would be a protective screen at the same level as the case so you can just wipe your hand or a glove across it to clean it off. My Agilent U1272A has this kind of screen. Others can chime in about Fluke screens.I would consider a clamp meter if you can find one that has all the measurements you need (pay close attention to the resistance range and ask the other guys what you're going to need) since the resolution and accuracy of a decent brand clamp meter should probably be enough for you and you'll have the convenience of a clamp. If you have to troubleshoot electronics then you might need a DMM with better resolution and accuracy. I can't recommend the current batch of Agilent clamp meters for this since they have recessed LCDs and are hard to clean in dusty conditions and have poor backlighting.Temperature ratings will probably all be lower than what you mention, but most decent brands should work, although they might start to get a little wonky on you.Any of the brands I mentioned should do a decent job for you, but expect to pay upwards of $250 US unless you find a really good deal.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2011, 03:40:58 pm
content: I have start to believe , that very few had truly explored the market about the rugged instruments.I like allot my Fluke 28II , but its not the only one that I like from my seven multimeter's.Even the old analog Metrawatt MA-4S , it does belong at the rugged industrial tools of 1980-82.( looks totally waterproof but it does not swim )And my opinion are that you will find easily, many DMM as rugged ones.The most difficult part , are the Amperes clamp.Its the most sensitive tool, at the area of accuracy VS environmental temperature.Today I am aware after long research , that the top solutions so far, comes exclusively from CHAUVIN ARNOUX and FLUKE.Your words are : that you had just start your apprenticeship .In this case , you will never be alone to handle anything major, and so you could just spent less about getting tools,and possibly get the ones that belongs to the med price range.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2011, 10:41:25 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on March 26, 2011, 03:40:58 pmI cannot agree Kiriakos. Yes to the letter of the law apprentices are under constant supervision, the practically reality is somewhat different. As an apprentice the OP will not have every move and range selection checked. There will be many situations where an apprentice will use a meter alone albeit in a supervised environment.To the OP stretch your budget to a Fluke or top shelf meter, it's far cheaper than buying and subsequently replacing a mid-priced meter.Buy the best, a Fluke maybe expensive but it's still a fraction of the dollars that the average apprentice will spend on car sound. The meter is a tool that will help you earn a living, neither the meter or the car sound will aid in impressing girls, The choice is easy.Wrong range selections etc are inevitable and your better off with a $20 dollar fuse replacement or a meter that flashes "dumb guy" on the display long enough for your to recognise any human error.Buy the best tools you can it's your life and livelihood. A fluke 28 (or equivalent) is a good choice and will serve you well. Make sure you keep it under Lock and key, they are a real theft magnet on job sites. A Fluke 30 series tong would be an excellent companion. If your work is more electrical than electronic I'd suggest the clamp as the first tool you purchase, if your work is mostly electronic get the meter first.

author: housey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 05:21:59 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on March 26, 2011, 10:41:25 pmI do want to buy quality tools, so I think I will go with a fluke 28. Money is not really a problem, at the moment I have about $2000 that I can afford to spend. Not to mention I am already doing quite a bit of things on my own like wiring up 415v and 1000v motors in star/delta, building $20,000 panels, installing and testing 3 phase power outlets etc. I am already doing alot of actual work and do require my own multimeter, whereas my friend who is doing a different electrical apprenticeship says the only tool he has handled so far is a broom and dustpanAnd no car stuff for me haha, I have already done more than my fair share of hooning round in turbocharged 6 cylinder japanese cars and big v8's to get it out of my system, an have been fortunate enough to escape that scene with the few points I have left on my license.PS: Surely the temperature range given on the fluke website for the fluke 28-ii is a mistake though? It says it can operate in a temperature range from -200C to +1090C?!?!? That is completely insane.

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 06:21:21 am
content: Quote from: housey on March 27, 2011, 05:21:59 amI had to see that for myself...Wow! I would love to see Dave test that spec!(The28-II product brochurelists the operating temperature range as -15 °C to +55 °C)

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 06:41:14 am
content: I would imagine that's the temperature measurement range if you've attached a thermocouple

author: housey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 01:42:51 pm
content: Quote from: grenert on March 27, 2011, 06:41:14 amhaha yep I think it is.What are the best places to buy from? So far the best I have found is $434.95US for the 28-ii, plus $38.70US shipping from tequipment.com. What are peoples thoughts on this website/price?Would I face any difficulties with warranties should problems arise if I buy it overseas?off topic: looks like i picked up pink eye/conjuntivitus while working at the medical disposal centre last week. lots of fun

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 05:40:11 pm
content: Tequipment (note that it's .net, not .com) is a big retailer, no fly-by-night operation. I ordered from them once, no problems. They are often the lowest price. If you need support or run into problems down the road, however, you might find it easier to deal with a local distributor (I've never tried getting support from Tequipment).

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 10:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: housey on March 27, 2011, 05:21:59 amSorry friend at this point , your imagination its killing my mood to say anything more..There is no 1000V motors in this planet , I do not know if the Kligon space ships haves any ..

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2011, 10:58:37 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on March 27, 2011, 10:41:37 pmhttp://www.graysonline.com/lot/0007-56131/construction-scaffolding-and-formwork/electric-motor-new-abb-model-with-booklet-1000v-30kw-1475rpm-22a-s-n=1000VREMX]http://roycecross.com.au/product_list/pages/product.php?Operation=SetSessionVariable&Variable=1000VREMXhttp://www.electricmotorsales.com.au/4.htmWhich planet were you referring to? While not exactly commonplace, 1000V motors are certainly something you may encounter in industry back here on earth.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2011, 05:11:47 am
content: And 1kV is just the start of the kV rated motorshttp://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&&dDocName=BR02000001E

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2011, 09:10:06 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on March 27, 2011, 10:58:37 pmYes , the Non commonplace Plus the apprenticeship , as pack sounds a bit fishy too me.Like to coexist in the same room.Long live the Battle-star Galactica ..

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2011, 09:20:29 am
content: 13.8 KV enough?http://www.menzel-elektromotoren.com/en_gb/products/high-voltage-motors/

author: housey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 28, 2011, 10:13:07 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on March 27, 2011, 10:41:37 pmWhat are you on about? 1000V motors are pretty much commonplace where I work and probably make up 80% of the motors I work on. All of the mine ventilation we do uses 1000V motors except for the small 3 and 6kW fans, all the tamrock solo and twin boom jumbos have 1000v motors. I could go on and on but pretty much every single motor I have worked on between 20 and 440kW has been 1000V. Its a mining and industrial focused apprenticeship not a residential one

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2011, 10:37:16 am
content: Even so @housey , your uncommon working place it could hide special devices ,but in public forums , you should expect , that you will get opinions from non-mining experts , or from ones with residential background.And so, if you do work next to 1000 HV , you should get only the best tools.I did the same , mostly because I am an " tools lover " ,I do not know if there is such expression in your region.I love the high quality tools , and the " honest one " from the medium priced category.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2011, 12:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on March 28, 2011, 10:37:16 amLoosely translated the Australian for that expression would be"if you buy shit tools your a knob".

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 12:51:21 am
content: There is another thread here about the Agilent 125x series being sold for ~60% off at Grainger; good only for USA buyers.I got a 1252a this afternoon, ordered it late Friday! That was so fast, no tracking was available through the weekend, it just appeared on my door. Its build quality is very high, a very good rival for the Fluke 87V, the only thing that made it less a competitor was its street price of $400+ [ 87V sells for $300 typically and lists for $400) and it had a battery life under 100 hours. But they are being liquidated at Grainger for $160 delivered, $130-40 plus taxes and shipping. Its a steal. I'll post a review later.

author: housey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 01:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on March 28, 2011, 12:48:15 pmI have both, cheap tools and quality tools both have their places.In the workshop I am building my quality set of tools. I have my stahlwille spanner and socket set, and a whole bunch of knipex pliers/multigrips/crimpers etc should be arriving soon from America, adjustable shifters made by the same company who make snap-on shifters, my brand new hitachi brushless 18v cordless hammer drill arrived today (serial number: J000319, thats how new the model is hahaha). So far I have spent nearly $3000 of tools and I expect I will spend alot more in the future. My colleagues often complain that apprentice wages must be to high these days and one of my nicknames is the german tool whoreI find theres not much better than looking back on a job that you are truely proud to put your name to, and knowing because you were equipped the right gear, you were able to do the job without compromiseOn the other hand, I have my set of kingcraft spanners and sockets that only cost me around $1 each, and alot of my pliers, screwdrivers are old and rusted, one of the blokes at work gave them to me for a 6 pack of beer when I had just started, he he was getting old and had been promoted into a safety/managerial type role.On sites and out in mines it is very different: You are very rushed, and taking your time to do a perfect job is not an option, rough enough is good enough. Crap can happen quickly and you can get moved around and easily forget or lose a few tools, not to mention there are lot sneaky hands that in particular seem attracted to tools that are expensive. The conditions often suck, like out in the sun on a 45 degree day, or working on a ladder above a big skip bin load of stinking sheets covered in diahrhoea from an old persons home (like today) and your almost passing out and drywretching.My motto for the rough as guts sitework and underground is: "Mining, whatever f***ing fits". The only high quality tool I will have is my multimeter because its never a good time to skimp on electrical safety.I am still not quite sure which one to get I am leaning 70% towards fluke 28-ii, and 30% towards the fluke 179. How much bigger is the 28-ii than the 179? i was using a 179 today and it seemed sturdy enough. Either way the flukes seem to be regarded as more rugged, which is something I will really need so im definately getting a fluke of some kind

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 12:32:31 am
content: Well i just find this link for you , just an alternative option ..http://www.ferret.com.au/c/Altronic-Distributors/Waterproof-multimeter-n678093It must be the same, better picture.(mouse over image)http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Test-Equipment/Multimeters/True-rms-waterproof-multimeter/79186Basically what it is missing from this forum, is one listing with all the waterproof ones / (IP) 67 standard / etc etc ..But personally I do not have the energy for such research.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 03:26:05 am
content: Housey, from one "German tool whore" to another, you will never regret getting those tools. I have all Knipex pliers, cutters etc. and Wiha screwdrivers. I replace the screwdriver set every two years or so and haven't replaced any Knipex tools since getting them about 4 years ago. Their Cobra wrenches KICK ASS! A ten inch Cobra has more leverage than a 12" Channelocks (most common brand here in the US) and I've seen guys' jaws drop when they see what I can do with them. Two guys were trying to loosen an impacted core bit extension for almost half an hour with two 12" channelocks - I came in with my 10" and 16" Cobras and got it apart myself in under two minutesThis kind of work beats the shit out of your body, so the sooner you start working smarter, the better. Good luck!