Myth busting solder-flux cleaning with isopropanol alcohol - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: astroschmidt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 03:12:15 pm
content: Dave,could You bust (or confirm) another myth about cleaning PCBs from the solder flux.I see it often that it is adviced to clean your PCB after soldering with isopropanol alcohol becausea.) the solder flux could oxidize the copper in the long runb.) the solder flux is not as high-ohm as a cleaned PCB and can create high-ohm connections on the PCBI believe that it is much better to NOT clean the PCB from (pure rosin!) solder flux, becausea.) Isopropanol is aggressive to some plastics and can intrude into parts creating undesired effects.It can e.g. dissolve polystyrene capacitors AFAIKb.) By this dissolving of other materials a potential low-ohm film is spread over the PCB while the rosin itself is very high-ohmig when left untouched at the solder joints.Please commentRoger

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 04:10:51 pm
content: It depends on the flux. Some fluxes are corrosive over time, although not generally the ones you's normally use. Even good flux, if contaminated can become corrosive - I had a bottle some a while ago that was OK for a while but then started corroding things a few days after application.Some types will also absorb moisture, so if you have high impedance stuff it can cause long-term problems.

author: astroschmidt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 04:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 21, 2012, 04:10:51 pmHi Mike,in the days of youth I first used solder intended for plumbers because nothing else was available at the local warehouse and I didn't know about the deifference.That one of course corroded everything through its halogenated solder.But I never had any issue with electronic solder with a (non-halogenated) pure rosin flux-core solder.Even when I sometimes open a case with a 2 decade-old PCB soldered by me I never saw any corrosion.This is also what the german wikipedia-entry says about rosin ("Kolophonium" as it is called in German)http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolophonium#Elektronik.2FL.C3.B6tenThere they even say it is better to leave a layer of rosin on the PCB because it is more protective against corrosion than a cleaned PCB.Couldn't it be the same with moisture, that a thin layer of rosin protects high-impedance stuff more than it harms?BTW I only speak of pure rosin flux.Kind regardsRoger

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 04:48:44 pm
content: rosin based flux is generally not conductive unless you baked it at such high temperatures it turned caramel color or black ...no-clean flux is just that. no-clean. you can leave it on. no problem-low solids flux is a flux that under a correctly controlled process totally evaporates. if there is a lot of residue your process is wring and you need to remove it as it can be conductive- water soluble flux needs to be removed simply because it is hygroscopic and leaves a soap-scum like residue on the board that is conductive.isopropylalcohol does not attack plastics ( apart from one kind of transparent material that just falls apart like a smashed car window. very weird) ipa is perfectly safe for electronics.There are some very agressive fluxes like RA that must be removed as they contain acidic substances. RMA is the most prevalent rosin flux ( RMA ; Rosin Mildly activated. RA = rosin activated )it is actually not the rosin that is the flux , but another substance in the compound. the rosin is just a carrying vessel for the real active ingredient.flux works on two fronts :When activated ( temperature controls this, most fluxes kick in around 100 degree C ) flux is a very reactive element that want to bind with oxygen molecules. It is so reactive it can strip oxygen molecules that have already bonded with copper. So it converts copper oxide back into copper.The second thing it does is lower the surface tension of the solder. this lets the solder 'wlow' over the to be soldered surface.under a correct process the flux is given some time to activate and do its work before soder is applied. wave solder machines apply warm flux to the board first, let it soak for a few seconds as the conveyer moves over a warming plate and the flux is now activated. then it goes through the solder wave where the flux totally evaporates leaving a clean board.solder paste works in a similar way. when doing reflow you have a rampup to flux activation, a hold phase to ledt the flux do its work and evaporate for almost 75% and then you ramp up to liquid phase where the solder melts and flow on the remaining flux. if reflow is done correctly there is little or no flux residue and board wash is not required.boards that have been reworked ( manually touching 1 component ) will have residue and those need washing with iehter solvent based flux removers or water.the flux in solder wire is a different composition than the flux found in pens or liquid form ( for starters the flux in solder wire is dry powder .. ) it is also more agressive as it has a shorter time to do its work.and then there are specially formulated fluxes like the gel fluxes or tacky fluxes. those are formulated for rework and the idea is to use a lot of it. so much that there is residue and you need to remove it.The same goes for pen fluxes. Those are for rework. fluxes for wavesoldering come in 50 gallon drums ... not something to have on your workbench ...in general :when doing handwork you will need to clean the board unless no-clean is usedwhen doing reflow or wave correctly ( note the usage of the word correctly ) there will be no need to clean the board afterwards unless in special circumstances like medical or military stuff where they are extremely anal ( with perfectly fine reasons) .if you care about the esthetical aspect : clean it upevery kind of flux has its own specific flux remover. some flux removers are broad spectrum. like chemtronics flux-off.and flux remover need a LOT of remover to wash a board. simply squirting a tiny bit on does not work. it just leaves goopall over the board like a sticky film. you need ot squirt some on , let it soak for 10 seconds, scrub with brush then spray more on to wash the 'spent' stuff off. let the board drip out , spray once more.apply warm air to dry. NEVER EVER blow air using your mouth . as the flux evaporates it cools down the board which pulls moisture out of the air. human breath contains saliva that is acidic .... you don't wan that on the board.So : warm air is the way to go. use your reflow hot air gun.

author: astroschmidt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 08:03:17 pm
content: Thanks free_electron for thorough explanation.Roger

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2012, 05:03:47 am
content: I use trichloroethylene break cleaner.

author: dcel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2012, 06:49:30 am
content: For rosin cored wire solder, I always clean the flux off the board with lacquer thinner and a wooden stick Q-tip. The reason I said always is because when I started repairing amplifiers, I made the repairs and the damn thing oscillated crazily. Took some time to determine the flux at the repair sites were the problem. Also had the same problem in a large mixing console channel as well. Now, I make the repair, clean the board while the joints still warm ( flux removes easier when still soft ) and then proceed with power up and testing. I have used alcohol before (all that I had avail.) and it takes too freaking long to clean the flux off the board. I wouldn't 'wash' the board in lacquer thinner, it eats plastics, I'm just spot cleaning.Chris

author: bradleytron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2012, 02:50:00 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on July 29, 2012, 05:03:47 amJust a note to say that I think this stuff is CARCINOGENIC, please check the MSDS sheets for more detail.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2012, 03:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on July 29, 2012, 05:03:47 amda shit dangerous broQuote from: dcel on July 29, 2012, 06:49:30 amEh ... really depends on what sort of alcohol you use. usually pure alcohol (IPA) is pretty smooth for my rosin fluxes

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2012, 05:08:58 pm
content: Just don't get any on your hands (appropriately picked protective gloves) and do it down wind (fan). The stuff is not flammable, so do not worry about motor sparking. This stuff removes the flux like magic and evaporates very quickly. Unfortunately all the awesome solvents are bad for you. I bet liquid butane would work well but unfortunately the canned stuff has a slight odor and its rather flammable.I would at least dry my IPA with some kind of dehydrator or use the anhydrous stuff (either methanol or ipa) sold as gasoline dehydrator... I remember I fried a video card once after giving it a wipe over with a high concentration of IPA because I did not dry it for long enough. You need to be careful with the dry times on that solvent. I'm pretty sure I used the 95% stuff too...

author: dcel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2012, 10:29:24 am
content: Quote99% Isopropyl Alcohol. Is Isopropanol Alcohol better as a flux remover?Its been a while since I have used it for flux cleaning because being spoiled by the speed at which lacquer thinner takes it off. I'll have to try it again just to make sure I wasn't brain damaged when I used it before. I have used brake clean as well, but NOT that chlorinated shit, yuk, makes me gag. I use the flamable stuff at work and its much easier on the lungs, esp. with the spray and run technique. I've cleaned boards with it also, I have a special can at work just for that, it stinks but does not eat plastics.Chris

author: ju1ce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2012, 12:38:03 pm
content: Quote from: dcel on August 01, 2012, 10:29:24 amIt's the same stuff.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol

author: Short Circuit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2012, 02:15:43 pm
content: IPA does not work very well for flux removal.Although (some) flux removers do contain a certain amount of IPA,I use Electrolube Fluxclene (MSDS), which contains 10-30% IPA (Propan-2-ol).So there can be similarities, but not the same.

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 10:02:08 pm
content: So what is the best brand of Flux remover?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 10:06:36 pm
content: Quote from: Dread on August 29, 2012, 10:02:08 pmThere is probably no simple answer to this.It's worth bearing in mind that flux cleaner does not work just by rinsing. It requires mechanical action with a stiff bristle brush (or ultrasonic tank in production environments). The flux cleaning solvent is doing a balancing act between dissolving the flux and not dissolving the electronic components. Therefore the flux cleaner cannot be too aggressive and must be fairly gentle in its action.If you use mechanical assistance then pure IPA or pure ethyl alcohol will work fine with most fluxes.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 03:54:18 am
content: I use mostly IPA but I don't like the results of IPA to clean BGA flux paste, I use Methyl Acetate, very good.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 10:40:10 am
content: Quote from: bradleytron on July 29, 2012, 02:50:00 pmIt's classified as a group 2A carcinogen, meaning "probably carcinogenic" and thus in the same group as emissions from deep frying. I'd worry about the other toxic effects of it more than its possibly carcinogenic properties...

author: Fava
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 09:16:46 pm
content: I use the Ethyl Alcohol. It clean so good than Isopropyl Alcohol.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 10:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on July 29, 2012, 05:08:58 pmVery trueAnd few chemicals as potent and as nasty as CCl4.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 12:47:57 am
content: Quote from: astroschmidt on July 21, 2012, 03:12:15 pmI have never actually seen this happen to a point where it mattered even after decades but it is possible.QuoteFor most circuits this will not matter. Where it does matter, extra cleaning steps should be used anyway.QuoteI have never had problems with IPA and board mounted parts but some plastics are susceptible although I do not think polystyrene capacitors would be affected. Some parts like switches or trimmers which contain enclosed areas should be sealed before washing or soldered into place later no matter what solvent is used.QuoteSee above. For most circuits this is irrelevant.Quote from: Short Circuit on August 02, 2012, 02:15:43 pmIPA is not my first choice either but it is inexpensive and less dangerous than most of the alternatives.The common rosin flux thinner that I have is 50/50 IPA and toluene and it works great. For better results and when cleaning rework, I use acetone or lacquer thinner.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 01:41:29 am
content: Tim

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 02:15:34 am
content: Best stuff I've found is Electrolube "Fluxene", seems to be mainly cyclohexane and some IPA.https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/001e/0900766b8001ed27.pdf

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 04:39:52 am
content: Quote from: bradleytron on July 29, 2012, 02:50:00 pm

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:39:49 am
content: I've a few tins of Electrolube LFFR, works fairly well.Isopropyl alcohol works well too, try not to get it on your skin, it's absorbed pretty quickly and it's *really* bad for your liver...Rosin flux is pretty stable though, the kind of kit I restore for fun is usually liberally caked in the stuff and on the few I've cleaned off the ~40 year old boards are like new underneath it, no corrosion, they sparkle.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 06:07:14 am
content: Quote from: CJay on July 26, 2018, 05:39:49 amNo, not really. It is very safe and not very toxic. You would literally have to bathe in it or drink it to get any toxic range dosage.It is less toxic than almost any other common solvent sans water. There should be zero concern for toxicity using it to clean flux from a pcb in the usual manner.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 06:21:10 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 26, 2018, 06:07:14 amIt is one of the safer solvents, yes, but it's still worth trying to avoid getting it into your body if possible as it's not good for your liver. Toxicity is low but there's also cumulative damage to consider.(don't misunderstand me, I use the stuff almost daily and know it's pretty safe but I would feel negligent not to mention the skin absorption and potential damage it can cause)

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 01:45:04 pm
content: I feel embarrassed when i reply to a necro-threadBut perhaps not. The subject matter is still quite relevant.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 03:42:54 pm
content: Isopropyl can't be very dangerous, it's the stuff doctors use to clean your skin prior to giving an injection.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 03:46:25 pm
content: Isopropyl is used extensively in healthcare and cosmetics for disinfection and cleaning. Don't bathe in it or drink it and the worst you'll get is dry skin.I wear gloves when using it because my skin gets awfully dry afterwards, but it's really not necessary.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 04:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on July 26, 2018, 06:21:10 amIsopropyl alcohol is sold in pharmacies as "rubbing alcohol" with the specific intent that it shall be rubbed on the skin. It is quite safe, and it is also "safe" to drink, in as much as it won't kill you if you do.Are you perhaps getting it mixed up with methanol, which is in fact a deadly poison that does get absorbed through the skin and does cause liver damage?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 04:30:41 pm
content: Something that has bothered me is that "denatured" ethanol has (or at least used to have) methanol mixed in to make it toxic so people won't bypass the liquor taxes and drink it. If I deliberately poisoned something in order to keep people from drinking it I'd go to prison.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 04:42:31 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 26, 2018, 12:47:57 ami've seen plenty ...QuoteFor most circuits this will not matter. Where it does matter, extra cleaning steps should be used anyway.i've seen microcontrollers refusing to boot due to flux residue. especially the water soluble flux. that stuff is in the tens of kiloohms ...Chemtronix flux-off . unbeatable !

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 26, 2018, 04:06:17 pmWhat can I say, the MSDS specifically mentions it can be absorbed via the skin and that it can cause liver damage, I don't write them, I jsut read them, maybe I've misinterpreted it?

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:48:03 pm
content: Best solution: Flux cleaner (it's not expensive, widely available). Example MG Chemicals 4140Cheap solution: 50/50 nail polish remover and isopropyl in a tiny spritz bottleLook at what's in MG Chemicals 4140Ethanol (pure alcohol)1,1,1,2 tetraflouroethane (propellant)Propan-2-ol (aka Isopropyl Alcohol)Ethyl Acetate (the primary ingredient in more nail polish removers)

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:49:03 pm
content: An anecdote from Nobel laureate Kary Mullis about how you should interpret those warnings:Quote

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:49:35 pm
content: I have now "repaired" a number of pieces of electronics by the simple act of cleaning flux residue off the PCB.The most recent was an eBay 34401A which arrived completely wonky. At all settings it just produced a meaningless stream of numbers on the display. Upon opening it up I observed a 1 cm diameter spot of what appeared to be solder flux in the vicinity of one of the LM358s that perform the integration for the ADC. The device was slightly misaligned, suggesting a prior repair.Upon cleaning off the flux residue with a soft brush and isopropyl alcohol the DMM performs flawlessly and is in spec to the limits of calibration using a new DMMCheck Plus.Rosin flux is hygroscopic. It absorbs moisture from the air. This leads to changes in resistance and capacitance between adjacent traces. This has become particularly problematic with the switch to 3.3 and 1.8 V logic levels. The noise margins get very small. I have "rep[aired" my CD player, a TV remote and 3-4 other devices just by cleaning flux residue from the PCB. The 34401A is simply the most dramatic example.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:51:03 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on July 26, 2018, 05:32:18 pmToxicology is all about dosages. Vodka can be absorbed through the skin and cause liver damage too...Bottom line for IPA is that no one will ever sustain liver damage from skin absorption of IPA using it to clean flux from PCBs. Even if they were using it with an ultrasonic bath and briefly immersing their hands in it.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 06:22:04 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 26, 2018, 04:42:31 pmI should have been more clear; I was only referring to rosin based fluxes. That water soluble stuff is trouble and should only be used in production.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 06:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on July 29, 2012, 05:03:47 amWe used to use a lot of 1,1,1-Trichloroethane which is fabulous for removing rosin flux but no more.As far as reviving an old subject, if the EEVBlog search facilities worked, maybe it would not happen as often.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 06:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: astroschmidt on July 21, 2012, 03:12:15 pmEthanol is even more aggressive (than isopropanol) to some plastics. Thou, cleaning PCB solutions usually are mix of both and not only. Good idea to check safety data sheets of popular flux cleaner. You will not get exact recipe, but pretty good understanding of contents for sure. One example I know:KONTAKT PCC

author: bsudbrink
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 07:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on July 26, 2018, 05:49:35 pmI have as well. Several hobbyist built S-100 bus boards. Regardless of how well stored (and these boards were well stored) rosin eventually darkens and becomes conductive. IPA and an old toothbrush was all that was required to bring them back to life.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 10:44:04 pm
content: I tumbled to this living in Houston when a 2nd *very* lightly used VCR died after a year. I took it apart to see if there were any usable parts and noticed that there was rosin flux everywhere. There was nothing usable so it went in the trash, but I resolved to test the idea the next time something died.I *did* have to clean my CD player a second time. The only solder flux on it was a little bit around the MCU. But apparently I didn't get all of it and after about a year and a half it died again ("no disc"). The 2nd cleaning did the trick and it's still working flawlessly 2-3 years after the 2nd cleaning. I'm planning on building an alcohol pressure washer using a 100 psi fuel injection pump with a distillation system so I can reuse the alcohol.A lot of consumer gear is to difficult to disassemble, so the idea is a flexible wand I can poke into the right places and a few gallons of clean alcohol in the tank. I work in a thrift store and we throw away a lot of stuff I think this would fix.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 02:52:18 am
content: I never understood why thrift stores throw away so much stuff. If there was an as-is section of broken stuff that's the first place I'd look when going into one of those places and I know lots of others who would as well.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 11:47:47 am
content: Quote from: james_s on July 27, 2018, 02:52:18 amSpace. The volume of stuff can be staggering and I'm in a town of 7500 where most people throw things in the trash.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 03:38:55 pm
content: I guess I'm just a different sort of customer. I completely ignore the rows upon rows of clothing and knick-knacks and head straight for the electronics section, usually leaving empty handed. The best thrift stores are the ones that have a bunch of random junk in unknown condition, I've found all sorts of cool stuff. At one place I got a neat 1970s digital clock that was marked needs repair. Turned out it's electromechanical with a shutter mechanism for the 7-segment digits, only problem was the incandescent lamps that backlight the digits were burned out. It's the only one like it I've ever seen other than a picture I found online of the same mechanism in a clock radio. Most probably just got thrown away when the (easily replaceable) lamps burned out.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 01:45:14 pm
content: my first job in high school (late 70's) was at a pcb assembly house. a very small company that had a wave solder line and they made boards for gas station pumps (the digital displays). I had been soldering a few years already, since I started as a very young kid, but I was surprised to see them use ACID flux (I remember it being pink or reddish and very low viscosity).we would paint a lot of the flux on the board, the board would be sent thru the wave solder machine (it was all open back then, no cage around it like you'd see in today's big pcb lines) and once it cooled, we'd would work at little kitchen-sink areas, running the whole soldered board under hot running water, scrubbing with a brush and using some kind of cleaning fluid to remove as much of the remaining flux as we could. we knew it was acid and could not stay on the board, but the boss was convinced that this was the best solution and all joints did come out very shiney, in the end.it really surprised me to see these handled like dishes in a sinkthere was even a dish rack to hold the board vertically while they air dried.all of us were teenagers (ie, low cost)I wonder how reliable those displays were. but the memory of that first soldering job I had will never leave me. scrubbing boards like dishes, under hot running water - that really surprised me. it was all low density chips and TH parts and I suppose that once the boards were fully dry, all was well.the lesson I learned was: acid flux can be used IF you don't let it sit very long and you take great pains to remove it after the process. but again, this was the late 70's..

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 01:59:52 pm
content: They probably didn't fare too well -- the metal gets etched by the acidity, inevitably trapping some acid in the pores. Once sealed over with solder, that still shouldn't do anything; but, if the solder corrodes through, or there's a sneak path through the porosity to an exposed surface, it will fail, some day.The active ingredient is usually zinc chloride, a deliquescent salt and Lewis acid. The former means it greedily absorbs moisture from the air, until hydrated to the point it forms a saturated solution. The latter means it hydrolyzes (breaks down by water), giving HCl (a traditional [Bronsted-Lowry] acid) and a zinc hydroxide crust. In both cases, the solution encourages electrolytic corrosion, and the acidity accelerates it further.Tim

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 02:07:25 pm
content: I don't know if the company did a 'sell and run', or if they knew the products would start to fail after X amount of time. maybe the boards were only meant to last a certain amount of time. back in the 70's, we didn't have quite the 'disposable' mentality of electronics that we have today; things that broke would be repaired, most likely. the company didn't appear to be a 'sell and run' kind of thing; the owner seemed to be doing what he felt was the best thing for the process.it would have been interesting to go back and find out how well the product did. maybe our scrubbing and cleaning really was enough. once the boards came off the line, it was less than an hour later that we were removing the acid residue.I would not repeat this in today's world, of course. just relating an old past experience.fwiw, I've had tours of proper high-end pcb assembly houses and the size of the machines used just to clean the boards are larger than my whole living room spacewe could not see what was going on inside that machine, but the boards that came out were clean as could be. modern tech can do a seriously good job at making pcb's, as long as the customer is ok paying for it!

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 02:32:33 pm
content: For precision analog boards, I remember where we had to install a reverse osmosis dishwasher to wash the board *before* assembly to reduce leakage but RMA flux and hand scrubbing in flux remover was completely sufficient.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 03:12:29 pm
content: speaking of cleaning, when I get a batch of boards with HASL from pcbway (for example), I've found that there is some kind of coating on the solder that makes it really hard to work with. scrubbing hard with IPA before I even start populating the board seems to work well.first few boards I made, using pcbway board, were aweful until I realized this.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 03:40:53 pm
content: I always give boards a quick wipe with flux cleaner before starting. makes your life so much easier

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 03:46:00 pm
content: Anyone using a dehydrator? I make small boards (HASL hot air surface leveling, not PB free) and solder using no-clean Kester 245 but for mainly cosmetic reasons I like to clean the boards. Mainly I use IPA but sometimes reach for MG 4140 or similar. I've noticed with the high humidity we have lately that it's like there is water forming or at least that dried water look on the boards. Someone mentioned a no-heat dehydrator on Amazon but no details so I was wondering if some kind of dehydrator would help. Or blowing/heaing maybe? My heat shrink gun is too hot I think to use and probably a hair dryer is static central. Anyone use a food dehydrator or is a PCB one available for $100 kind of range?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 04:19:18 pm
content: Quote from: grantb5 on September 06, 2018, 03:46:00 pmHow might a dehydrator help here? As soon as you take a board out of the dry atmosphere it will get humidified again.If you have some kind of filmy appearance on the boards after cleaning, I think that means there is residue left behind and the board is not properly clean. You should try extra rinsing with very clean solvent, maybe even de-ionized water. Remember that solvent after cleaning must not be left to dry in place as it will not physically remove dirt that way. Dirt must be washed off and carried away with copious rinsing.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 04:25:03 pm
content: Desiccator?Put sodium hydroxide pellets in the bottom to absorb moisture. Evacuate for even better performance. Reactivate the moist NaOH by baking in oven.https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~3sAAOxyxpxQ52RP/s-l300.jpg

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 04:27:44 pm
content: Don't just use a solvent (IPA, acetone, ... or some sort of mixture as tends to be in aerosol flux cleaner cans), as all it will do is spread the flux around the board.Instead, you need to mop it off using something like Kim Wipes or foam swabs (i.e. those sold for cleaning ink jet printers on eBay and the like) types of things to actually remove it from the PCB. Repeat until it's all gone, andvoila, you're done.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 04:44:50 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on September 06, 2018, 04:25:03 pmSodium hydroxide is not very safe. However, every supermarket and hardware store in the USA sells calcium chloride drying products for dehumidifying enclosed spaces. These would be a more practical solution for desiccators.Even so, I think the problem is with cleaning, not with drying. If you just spray flux cleaner onto your board from a spray can, it will not clean the flux off. It needs to be scrubbed with a soft brush after application, and then the residue needs to be rinsed off using a separate application of solvent and/or de-ionized water.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 05:09:17 pm
content: Thanks folks. Most of these are PTH (through hole) so swabs and wipes will probably get shredded. I do use a toothbrush with the IPA and/or MG. I will try harder.It seems to me the moisture or film appears later but I will experiment with a few things.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 05:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: grantb5 on September 06, 2018, 05:09:17 pmI do useKontakt PCC aerosolbottle which is mostly Isopropanol, with built-in swab together with cheap "air duster" bottle. Duster shall be flammable type. You just blow all the remains of cleaning fluid away, evaporate it as well. It helps in tight places andunderSOIC/LQFP IC's (!).

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 06:02:21 pm
content: I see Flux-Off has a product like that, maybe I'll give that a whirl.https://www.chemtronics.com/flux-off-no-clean-plus

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 04:18:49 am
content: Quote from: grantb5 on September 06, 2018, 06:02:21 pmIt's decent stuff, but it's a bit on the expensive side. Especially the 12oz. aerosol cans that are hobbyist friendly.Amazon has it for $18.37 per canDigikey for $20.58Newark for $25.51Then it gets really ugly when looking at CDN pricing (i.e. $44.16 CDN from Amazon.ca).FWIW, the Kim Wipes and foam swabs will work with PTH components quite well (they're older than SMD components). You mop/absorb the solved flux residue with them, not scrub at it. Use a brush first as you have been if you need to scrub a heavy deposit prior to mopping the mess off, repeating as necessary. You can even use Q-tips*; just clear off any cotton fuzz that might be left behind.* Rotate in the same direction it was wound on the stick to help keep the cotton on it rather than your board.

author: microMANIAC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 21, 2018, 07:11:01 pm
content: Back before I was a greybeard I used commercial flux cleaners, but since recently getting back into the field I have been using 91% isopropyl alcohol to clean flux from my personal project boards, although I have been frustrated by the gummy residue left over no matter how hard I scrub with an old toothbrush. One of the earlier posts in this thread mentioned brake cleaner, and since I recently bought about a dozen cans on sale for less than $3 each CDN I thought I would experiment with it on an inexpensive project. Brake cleaner is amazing stuff... extremely effective dissolving anything gummy or oily, dries quickly with no residue, safe onmostplastics, comes in easy-to-use spray cans, and is relatively cheap (especially on sale like I got mine). It is, however, hard on rubber, but you don't find much of that on most circuit boards.For a test I used it to clean off the flux after soldering the legs and ICSP pins onto an Arduino Nano clone. Initially I wasn't comfortable spraying it directly on the board, so instead I applied it to the old toothbrush bristles and then scrubbed the lines of header pins I had just soldered. The results were perfect... no damage to neighboring components or silkscreening, not a trace of flux or gumminess left on the board, and it air dried in about 60 seconds (blowing on it speeds up drying dramatically). I will definitely be turning to brake cleaner as my go-to flux remover.I can't speak for all brands or formulations, but the product I used was "emzone Non-Chlorinated Brake & Parts Cleaner". The side label claims it leaves no residue, is fast drying, and has low odour, all of which I can confirm. It suggests pretesting on plastic components, and warns to avoid overspray on rubber parts, but I have used it on all kinds of plastic stuff, and almost all of it is impervious. Like I said, try it on a few lower-risk projects first, but I think you will find it fantastic for flux cleaning.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: microMANIAC on October 21, 2018, 07:11:01 pmI think this is the MSDS:http://emzone.ca/media/141950/p6-045046___________emzone_brake___parts_cleaner_-_the_big_can_-_482g_en_5.pdfHeptane (including isomers) 64742-49-0 60-100%Isopropyl Alcohol 67-63-0 5-10%Carbon Dioxide 124-38-9 1-5%Just make sure you have good ventilation, even if it doesn't have a strong odor.

author: microMANIAC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 26, 2018, 11:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 22, 2018, 07:16:10 pmSomebody didn't check their math there... the Heptane can be up to 100%, but the other two can't be lower than 5% and 1% respectively. If the Heptane is at its maximum of 100% and the others are at their minimums... that adds up to 106%. Surely the maximum Heptane component should be 94%.BTW, I used this cleaner on a couple more PCBs since my original post and the results were stellar.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 07:51:41 am
content: Quote from: microMANIAC on October 26, 2018, 11:04:34 pmYou don't understand. They know exactly what their product contains, not a range of possibilities. Those aren't error bars.What they aren't doing is tellingyouexactly what is in their product. They take the precise proportion of eachhazardousingredient (non-hazardous ingredients are not listed at all) and add sufficient "fuzz" on either side to obscure the content. Summing to 100% is nowhere in the procedure and would not improve anything from their perspective (the minimum possible information disclosure within the law).

author: Fleetz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 03:21:25 pm
content: Been looking into the best way for a hobbyist like myself to clean PCBs that I design. IPA was one method I explored however seems it can be somewhat problematic with residue unless follow up cleaning is implemented.In the next day or so I will be trying out a water based flux cleaner in a ultrasonic bath cleaner I recent purchased on eBay for $100. The flux cleaner I am trying ishttps://www.shesto.co.uk/precision-engineering/ultrasonics-1/shesto-ultrasonic-cleaner-solution-for-flux-remover-pcb/The flux cleaning solution needs to be elevated to around 50-60C which is no problem as the ultrasonic cleaner I purchased has an adjustable heater. Once it goes through the ultrasonic bath the PCB is rinsed in demineralised water then dried. Hopefully leaving a relatively clean streak free PCB.I have seen a YouTube video of a user of using a flux cleaner solution similiar to what I am about to use where he uses a toothbrush once the board is in the ultrasonic bath to gently brush more heavily fluxed areas on the PCB to assist in the moving of the flux into solution so I will be using that technic to.Then I intend using a IPA bath after the ultrasonic to displace the water based cleaner then dry the PCB. Hopefully finish with a very clean board.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 04:46:01 pm
content: Many are leery of putting themselves in contact with ultrasonic cleaners, due to their known capability for tissue disruption.

author: Fleetz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 04:51:52 pm
content: Quote from: helius on October 27, 2018, 04:46:01 pmNo intention of putting my fingers into an active ultrasonic bath, the ultrasonics will be switched off for any spot cleaning or any action that requires direct human intervention.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 04:57:14 pm
content: Ultrasonic cleaning is very hard on electronics, IC bonding wires can fail and I've seen metals get etched as the solder fillets look roughed up. Keep the intensity and time as low as possible.

author: microMANIAC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 04, 2018, 02:34:11 am
content: Quote from: helius on October 27, 2018, 07:51:41 amUmmm... yes, I do. It's you that doesn't understand.They clearly state that the IPA is at least 5%, and CO2 is at least 1%. They can't then claim that the Heptane can be up to 100%. The Heptane can't be more than 94%... it's simple math.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2018, 05:15:18 am
content: Looks like you still don't get it. It is not a "claim that heptane can be up to 100%". The only "claim" is that the exact, known, amount of heptane is somewhere between the figures given. "Simple math" is not involved at all, only legal requirements.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2018, 07:42:34 am
content: Quote from: helius on November 04, 2018, 05:15:18 am.... and obfuscation of therealformula.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2018, 11:28:06 pm
content: I did a little video on common alternativesTLDR version: Use real flux cleaner (or isopropyl if you don't have it)

author: microMANIAC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 12:27:45 am
content: Ok, the last thing I want to do is get into a flame war with a longtime contributor, so this will be my last comment on this topic, but your argument is just semantics, and it's still wrong."the exact, known, amount of heptane is somewhere between the figures given"Exactly!!! But that is ALSO true for the other listed components.The amount of CO2 is somewhere between one and five percent (but not LESS than 1%). Isopropyl alcohol makes up five to ten percent of the product (but not LESS than 5%). That means that somewhere between six and fifteen percent of this brake cleaner is NOT heptane. There is absolutely no way the heptane can contribute more than 94% of the total. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand. Heptane is a distinct component in its own right, it is not itself made up of CO2 or IPA. If the product is indeed at least 1% CO2 and 5% IPA, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to simultaneously be 100% heptane.If your argument is that the numbers are correct because it is strictly true that a 94% heptane concentration is "between 60 and 100%", well that is just ludicrous. Nobody says a peanut butter cup is 20% chocolate and somewhere between 60% and 100% peanut butter. The most logical explanation is my original one, that the manufacturer made a simple mistake when listing the ingredients.

author: microMANIAC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 12:31:55 am
content: Quote from: boffin on November 05, 2018, 11:28:06 pmYou really should have included brake cleaner in your test. Cleans at least as well as the MGC product with zero board or component damage, and MUCH cheaper. I swear by it now.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 02:09:41 am
content: Quote from: microMANIAC on November 06, 2018, 12:31:55 amNot something I had at hand, but I'll give it a try sometime.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 11:37:08 pm
content: I had a Harbor Freight PIR sensor night light that had stopped working and been tossed in the junk bin. I pulled it out yesterday to see if I could scavenge a AA batter holder and in the process took it apart.It's a pretty simple device, so I thought I should be able to diagnose the fault. In looking at it I noticed some flux residue. So I cleaned it with a spray of isopropyl and an old toothbrush.Now it works. So I'll have to put it back together instead of removing the PIR to play with.The surprising part was how little flux residue there was and that what I noticed was not close to the sensor or op amp, just the on-off-auto switch area. I cleaned the whole board, so there may have been some I did not notice

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 07:06:19 pm
content: PIR detectors are pyroelectric, i.e., the electric field on a crystal changes with temperature. Electric field means very high impedances, low leakage -- exceptionally so at the rates of change used here (low Hz).If that's seen at board level or not, depends on if the sensor is internally buffered. I think that's not uncommon, so you get a PIR module that looks very much like an electret mic: an internal JFET follower on the capacitive (charge based) element, giving reasonable circuit values (continuous current (fractional mA?) instead of charge). Board contamination could still be a problem, but it would have to be much worse to kill operation. Or the circuit is just that badly designed (you can always make a circuit worse; you can't always make a circuit better!).Tim

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 07:46:39 pm
content: No clean flux, or water soluble flux poorly cleaned, will leave a residue that affects high impedance circuits. as the detector typically use 100k or higher value resistors to get gain, any board leakage on either top or bottom will cause incorrect operation. Might work when new, but after a few months of absorbing ambient humidity and rain there will be conductive paths that are not intended. Clean board and give a coat of some conformal coating, or just mask off the pyro detector top with painters tape and spray board top and bottom, avoiding the variable resistors using more tape, and they will last for years.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 11:11:38 pm
content: The circuit is very similar to the example in the datasheet for the PIR D203B sensor. But it's driving an LED and timer circuit rather than a relay and uses an LP324 quad op amp. It also has a sensor to keep it from turning on if the room lights are onPutting it back together was a huge pain. Every time I soldered a wire back on, another one broke off. But I did eventually get it back together and it works just fine. So I washed the "NG" written on the back off and put it to use.I've not had trouble once the muck was cleaned off. I did have to reclean a CD player after a few months, but that was several years ago. It's never had a problem since.

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 08:59:08 am
content: Quote from: microMANIAC on November 06, 2018, 12:31:55 amI am also about to buy an ultrasonic cleaner and wonder to bath solution to use.1st, some auto parts, and Iknow what to use,2nd electronic parts and boards, and that I do not know.Does Brake cleanerreally work that well and is safe on circuit boards?IF so, that would be ideal. Do you dilute it?

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 09:05:34 am
content: Also, regarding ISO alcohol. I use 99% and I am not always happy. Some have mentioned how bought flux cleaner has additional chemicalsCan I make up a solution combining alcohol with other chemicals to make flux cleaning and PCB cleaning MORE effective?or, some special blend that will not blow up or poison me?I know acetone works on some stuff, I don't think PCBs thoughANd Naphtha (lighter fluid is great for plastics..but only for plastics as I understand.So many questions?one more: any ultrasonic homebrew solutions for electronics ?

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 11:03:58 am
content: Quote from: microMANIAC on November 06, 2018, 12:31:55 amWell I just gave this stuff: (Certified Brake Cleaner non-chlorinated) a try -https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/certified-non-chlorinated-brake-cleaner-390-g-0381430p.htmlCertified appears to be a Canadian Tire house brand, it is just Heptane and Carbon Dioxide. First impression is that it works very well!, not egregiously smelly or toxic and cheap and locally abundant. Winner!My test was not a full soldered board. Just recently I bought some Rose's metal from Russia. This is low temp. Bismuth/tin/lead that melts around 97 degrees Celsius, and it comes from the seller in drops (small blobs). I wanted it in the form of wire so I can hold it while using it to solder the lids on hermetic boxes I am making so I coated the drops with MG-835 liquid rosinRA flux and heated them on a hot plated griddle. I use a black and decker brand teflon surface 24 inch breakfast griddle as my hot plate. I got the drops warm enough to melt them and get them to coalesce into 10mm wide ribbons, which should be as good as wire. The flux never got to smoke temp. so this is not the same as hardened burned on flux typically seen on PCB's.I let the hot plate cool down, peeled off the rose's metal and let the flux harden for a day. I scraped off as much as I could before hitting it with the brake cleaner. There was still a layer of hard powdery flux stuck on the teflon that came off like magic with the brake cleaner but admittedly this is not as a good test as a real PCB.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 03:19:38 pm
content: One of these might help:https://www.seattlefindings.com/Draw-Plate-Round-10-32-Gauge_p_4067.htmlThe normal routine is to make a narrow mold, cast an ingot and then successively draw until you get the desired diameter. That's what jewelers have done for thousands of years and still do regularly all around the world.A piece of 10 AWG copper wire pulled straight and pressed into plaster of paris that is almost set should work for the mold. You can probably melt the drops in the mold with a hot air gun.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 03:51:08 am
content: Quote from: rhb on January 07, 2019, 03:19:38 pmThanks, a few similar approaches occurred to me. Rose's metal is new to me as it is the first time handling it. It is surprisingly hard and non-ductile, I don't think it will draw well. Plaster of paris is a good idea. As it turned out the teflon prevented the molten metal from alloying with the underlying aluminum and I could steer the liquid around with a popsicle stick to get ribbons so my hasty approach gave quick functional results.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 01:09:23 pm
content: If it work hardens while drawing it will be really difficult to anneal without melting it. It may be hard from being quenched in water to form the drops.Jewelers commonly use solder in sheet form. So another option is to cast a wire ingot and then either draw if out with a hammer and anvil or compressing it in a vise to make a thin ribbon that you can cut with nippers.The plaster of paris mold should be baked in an oven at 250 F for several hours before use to make sure it is dry.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 01:40:21 pm
content: A quick look at the literature suggests elongation (a measure of ductility) should be very good indeed. You may have to go slowly, however (which implies the large elongation is due to creep).Tim

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 03:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on January 08, 2019, 01:40:21 pmI have to play some more. i don't know the purity of the stuff I have, I always have some doubt when buying from ebay. One of my goals was to use the griddle and a thermocouple to ascertain the melting point to get a gauge on the quality. Well I screwed that up, somehow the thermocouple via my Brymen 869 was giving wild readings, plausible one moment implausible the next. I cranked up the heat after getting impatient and over shot 110+ degrees, then things started melting too quickly.I had a small container of water and a sponge and was using the sponge to drip water onto the griddle as a sanity temp test and the water drops were boiling off quickly when the metal started to melt. The water and sponge were also intended as a quench once I had the metal in the form I wanted. As the metal cooled a network of crystals could be seen forming, indicating to me that one component was coming out of alloying solution first and that the final result may not be all that homogenous. Once solid I tried bending it. It feels like something inbetween pot metal/white metal and standard 63/37 solder.I feel embarrassed derailing this thread from the flux removal topic

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 03:47:57 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on January 08, 2019, 03:16:24 pmStart a new one or bring it back on topic when you sort your current issues.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 06:30:25 pm
content: Eutectic shouldn't be forming visible crystals. Maybe you have rather more pure bismuth than you were expecting? It should still be on the soft side if the melting point is obviously not that high, though, AFAIK...If you leave a strip of the stuff cantilevered out, does it bend slowly over time?Tim

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 09:36:26 pm
content: The traditional Rose's alloy is non-eutectic. Seehttp://www.che.uc.edu/jensen/w.%20b.%20jensen/reprints/178.%20Fusible%20Alloys.pdfYou should be able to melt it under water in a glass beaker, with anti-bumping granules added so you cant superheat it by more than a few deg C. If not, it not what its supposed to be.I'm curious how effective the rosin RA flux was at such a low temerature.

author: donperryjm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 10:31:08 pm
content: For flux removal i tried IPA, but didn't hae 99%So i got my GF's Acetone and added 1 part WD-40 to 10 parts acetone.The acetone breaks up the stuff and the WD-40 makes it impossible to continue sticking to the board. The acetone will evaporate and leave behind WD-40 so clean up the rest with pure acetone. You won't believe the removal quality.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2020, 12:33:10 am
content: That's the second instance of this thread being revived by necromancy...Acetone will work well if you can stand the smell. (It's sold as "Heavy Duty Flux Remover" by several companies.)What you do have to watch for is that it is absorbed by most plastics including the epoxy in IC packages, which quickly erases their markings and could cause delayed failure problems. Stick to the side of the board with no components and you should be okay.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 10:02:36 pm
content: Ok, resurrecting an old thread; could have started a new one but there was a bunch of good discussion here; I learned a lot especially from this post by free_electron (Thanks):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/myth-busting-solder-flux-cleaning-with-isopropanol-alcohol/msg131044/#msg131044So the question remains, what's the best way to clean a flux off the board - in a few respects....what to use?(Background: recently got a microscope and not only have I moved further from through hole into SMD but pretty much everything I thought I knew has been re-arranged now that I can see what is happening with much clearer detail).I've tried IPA but found that it needed some rubbing and scrubbing. Two things happened:1) using q-tips (maybe the biggest offender) and various pad and cloth materials the result has been that there are plenty of fibers getting stuck on components and in residue on the board. If anyone has any better cleaning device beyond a toothbrush and better drying tools/techniques beyond compressed air, please say.2) after trying IPA and eventually getting the boards sort of but not really clean and dry (but full of stuck fibers) I noticed that the boards seem dull - kind of like the IPA had eaten some of the board finish. So I experimented with diluting the IPA with some (pure?) water (90 IPA / 10 water, 80/20, 70/30, 60/40) and found that the board dulling problem seemed to improve with the water mix but it's hard to say where the best % is, or if this is even a good solution.It seems like some version of MG Chemicals might make sense:https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Remover-Boards-Aerosol/dp/B005T8L4V2/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=mg+chemicals+flux+remover&qid=1605216055&sr=8-2https://www.amazon.com/Remover-Boards-Improved-Formulation-Liquid/dp/B07XDCRLR6/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=mg+chemicals+flux+remover&qid=1605216949&sr=8-4I haven't used the aerosol version but it would seem to be difficult to manage in terms of overspray vs. the liquid - but that's just a guess.Long story short, what are the best chemicals, dispensing method, and cleaning and drying tools to best clean flux off boards without dulling boards, harming circuits, or harming users with non-safe substances.If we have to pick 2 of 3 nicely clean and safe (for parts and people) are more important than price.Thx

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 10:19:17 pm
content: Distilled water is fine, but you'll have to dry off the board after washing if its a significant percentage. Use compressed air (filtered) to get the bulk of it off then place in a drying oven (~60-80C).If you don't want loose fibers you use an ESD safe brush.70% isopropyl 30% water is available for cleaning:https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/electronic-cleaning-products/isopropyl-alcohol/70-isopropyl-alcohol/But I don't know if cheap off the shelf 70% is clean enough for your use.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 10:37:45 pm
content: Same issue here exactly. It seems you really need to go to town with a brush and IPA to get the residue off and there is that dullness or even a white residue left behind. I find it necessary to trim those brushes as they aren't stiff enough to do much good in the original state. Toothbrushes actually seem harsher (poor teeth and gums). In my case I'm using Kester 245 and only (attempt) to clean boards that people complain about the appearance. It's a limited improvement.Here are Kester's words, but I have not followed this up...The 245 flux residues are non-corrosive, non-conductive and do not require removal in most applications. IPA will not clean the residues off the surface of the circuit board after the soldering process. A saponifier or cleaning agent specifically designed to clean a no-clean flux is required to clean the residues.So for my solder, I need to locate a saponifier that will do the job, whatever that is.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 11:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on November 12, 2020, 10:02:36 pmIPA doesnot"eat" any part of the circuit board. What is happening is that you are redepositing the salt content from the flux and it appears dull grayish white. These salts increase the activity of the flux, but they are conductive and corrosive when exposed to metal. This is an indicator that your cleaning is inadequate, and you are simply pushing around contaminants instead of flushing them away.Nanofrog's reply (and hundreds of posts all over this board, frankly)notes the correct way to remove flux; also seeIanB's reply. Q-tips can only absorb a small volume of material, so they must be changed very frequently. If you have a large amount of flux or a large area to clean, you should either use towels (Kimwipes) to absorb the contaminants, or flush them off with spray into a waste receptacle. Brushes do not absorb contaminants at all, so simply brushing never removes anything. The brushing is for loosening the grip of the soil to the board, and that loose soil must be flushed away before it dries again.Quote from: grantb5 on November 12, 2020, 10:37:45 pmSaponifiers are used in aqueous cleaning systems in PCB assembly houses. They react with flux residue to form a kind of soap that washes away in the water tank and is removed.You're using the wrong solder for small-scale operations. Aqueous cleaning is not conveniently done on a small scale.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 12:24:16 am
content: Quote from: helius on November 12, 2020, 11:58:15 pmThanks. Any recommendations? Most of my stuff I am happy to use No Clean Flux and leave it on, but some boards I would like to clean.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 02:02:38 am
content: From Kester, 232 and 285 RMA are good for assembly. For rework, sometimes a more active flux like 44 is useful. These all clean up pretty well with IPA, although MG 4050A is slightly more effective. You might try it on your 245 flux, too. If the commercial cleaners are too expensive, you can also add a small amount of heptane (Coleman fuel) and acetone (like 5% each?) to IPA and it will clean much faster.There are lots of companies making similar products: for solder, Multicore, Ersin, Alpha, MG, Chemtronics, etc...For cleaners try Techspray, Electrolube, Chemtronics, ACL, Microcare, etc...

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 05:38:33 am
content: Quote from: helius on November 12, 2020, 11:58:15 pmThanks.So this is what you like?https://www.chemtronics.com/flux-off-no-clean-plusAny reason to consider this (or some other MG Chemicals) product?https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Heavy-Remover-Aerosol/dp/B005DNQWV0/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=chemtronics.com+flux-off-no-clean-plus&qid=1605331814&sr=8-3Just to clarify, you not recommend saponifiers, correct?Thx

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 05:14:27 pm
content: I just clean boards in an ultrasonic cleaner with a cleaning agent, then rinse in DI water and let them dry (oven at 40-60C with some molecular sieves inside, but you can also use IPA to displace the water if you're in a rush)

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 05:32:23 pm
content: Like I said, saponifiers are used in aqueous cleaning systems. A large, multi-ton apparatus using counter-current flow in several baths.I don't expect that this is a common item in hobbyist workshops.I use MG Safety Wash II (4050A) for most things, although I have also used Heavy-Duty Flux Remover (413B) for some projects with very old and hard residue. As I wrote in reply #91 above, it has plastic incompatibility issues, but the powerful smell is the main reason I rarely use it. It isn't a horrible smell, just very strong.The Chemtronics ES896B is a rather strong flux remover that should be handled with gloves because of its n-hexane content. It should work well, but I try to avoid working with toxic chemicals unless necessary.

author: Zhao
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 14, 2020, 06:42:18 pm
content: If you wish to spend a little more hassle, and you don't care about cosmetics, try to use a solid block of rosinIt is very safe to leave it as-is on the PCB, even if you apply way too much of it. I use the leg of a 2W resistor as applicator, heat it up, dip it into the rosin and stir to coat a small blob of rosin onto the tip, and then melt the blob wherever needed. This method works fine for both thru-hole and SMD. I even use rosin block to store some small SMD parts which are otherwise easily lost.I haven't found any sign of corrosion on the boards that are fluxed this way, even on 10+ year old PCBs with exposed copper traces.Not all the rosins are alike, though.- Natural rosin has heat stability issue and can char and oxidize at relatively low temperature. They are ok for leaded soldering (people has been doing that for decades), but tend to burn too quickly for lead-free. I find myself having to reapply it very often when soldering at higher than 300 degree C.- Hydrogenated rosin (also called water white rosin) are much better at high temperature. It also has lighter color and doesn't tend to turn black after prolonged exposure to heat.- Pure rosin are not very active. They tend to take longer to tin oxidized, uncoated copper. Some solid rosin specifically designed to be used as flux might contain other activators that make it more active. They seem to be as safe as natural or hydrogenated rosin at room temperature.Attempting to clean solid rosin residual without a big tank of solvent will leave you with a sticky mess.