The TangiBot 3D Printer, a clone of Makerbot Replicator - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bxs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:25:12 pm
content: So look here:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2117793364/the-tangibot-3d-printer-the-affordable-makerbot-reQuoteFor what I see, it's a pure clone, except logos etcWe knew this would happen, but a pure clone without something new or better other than price?I think is a little sad...And they are even worried that it will not be 100% equal to Makerbot:QuoteI don't have more words.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:54:48 pm
content: Interesting... It seems to me the guy is mad at Makerbot for some reason, as his only proposed advantage is price.

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 08:14:19 pm
content: I think if you look closely he may be offering an option of a kit/or have non commercial interests.My understanding is that Makerbot was set up to commercialize some of the work that had been done previously by the RepRap guys some years back. Makerbot then smartly produced their own take on the reprap kit and then raised millions in private funding. People were then concerned that this startup funding would then lead to either a) discontinuing the kit idea (like what reprap had introduced) or b) an expensive 3d printer.Looking on the makerbot site today it looks to me like I can no longer buy a kit, rather a prebuilt machine, of course which is more expensive than a kit. My understanding is also that Adrian Bowyer didnt make anything like the kind of money Makerbot made out of the idea that he essentially gave birth to. Not that there is anything wrong with that but its fair play for anyone else to also take the same ideas and build on them.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 08:58:31 pm
content: I don't think they stand any chance of getting anywhere near their funding target.Their market is limited to the people who have not already got a MB or similar, and for whom the price difference is the reason, and who trust them to deliver something useable.

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 09:08:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 10, 2012, 08:58:31 pmI agree. I saw it and it made me wonder if he needs that level of funding, or if that's what he thought he could get.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 10:52:28 pm
content: Some competition is always good. Aren't there any Chinese Makerbot clones?A 3D printer appeals to me for educating my kids and creating useful parts but I'm wondering how good the results are.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 02:28:23 am
content: There is an unwritten rule in the OSHW industry, that comes from way back in the magazine projects days (which was mostly OSHW, without the new label).And that is, you do not compete against the original designer, with your only differentiator being price and undercutting them.You have to offer something different. An improvement on the design, a different housing or form factor, a niche change, or something...You do not just clone and undercut as your main differentiator, even though you have the legal right to do so.Poor form I think.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 02:30:44 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 10, 2012, 08:58:31 pmand wait at least 4 months after handing over your money.Makerbot had similar lead time issues, but it wasn't nearly that long.The market can change a lot in 4 months...Dave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 05:56:14 am
content: Is there available a Replicator with acrylic skeleton? Is this the only difference?Alexander.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 06:18:26 am
content: Quote from: firewalker on August 11, 2012, 05:56:14 amYou have to pay extra for that, otherwise it's identical to the Replicator.In any case, changing the case from wood to acrylic is not really changing or improving the design in any way, it's still a direct clone.Dave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 06:30:11 am
content: No one will bother. I am guessing they will keep asking for a smaller target on kickstarter until they succeed.They could at least claim "new cryogenic treated drive belts", "radiation hardened mcu", "special lubricant made from distiled unoptanium on the drive axles", e.t.c.Alexander.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 09:16:49 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2012, 02:28:23 amAt the least, I think it would be good if they incorporated all the fixes suggested in your review and the follow-up discussion thread, even if they need to increase the price slightly.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 10:08:45 am
content: Phil Torrone (Adafruit) is a backer, but has some good points here:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2117793364/the-tangibot-3d-printer-the-affordable-makerbot-re/commentsDave.

author: dda
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 10:24:00 am
content: From the tone of Phils questions I assumed he paid a buck just so hee could write on their comments section. (only for backers)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 10:49:42 am
content: Quote from: dda on August 11, 2012, 10:24:00 amI think so, as did Akiba from FreakLabsThey don't pay a cent if it doesn't get funded though!Dave.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 02:12:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2012, 06:18:26 amI disagree. Being able to put something together cheaper is also innovation. 15 years ago my first HP laserprinter (professional grade) cost me approx. €1200. Last year I bought a new professional grade HP laserprinter for €200. Not only is it cheaper but it has a several neat features like double-sided printing and a network interface.IMHO it is a good thing that people try to market quality 3D printers for lower prices. Once they become affordable for the big masses the prices will get lower and the number of features will go through the roof. I bet that within a few years someone will come up with a way to print using aluminium or even steel.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 04:14:28 pm
content: Look on the back cover and you will know why it became so cheap ... "MADE IN CHINA"

author: tramjoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 07:20:26 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 11, 2012, 04:14:28 pmSo what ?

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 07:42:47 pm
content: Quote from: tramjoe on August 11, 2012, 07:20:26 pmPoor quality ensues, planned obsolescence

author: tramjoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 08:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 11, 2012, 07:42:47 pmI will not even try to argue about this, apparently you're one of those guys who still have not understood that "made in china" means nothing. Apple products are made in China, so are most cheapos low-end computers, and they are not the same thing. To reuse one of Dave's favorite expressions, this is really an attitude that ticks me off.

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 08:55:30 pm
content: Poor form, probably. Legal, certainly. But I think it's moot.I'd bet that well before Christmas 2013 some "Shine Happy Lucky Joy Light up your Butt" Chinese company will have a total clone, with a nice molded plastic covers, and a better option than plywood for a chassis, on the market for well under $1K.(I'd also bet heavy against the guy reaching his $500K goal)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 09:28:42 pm
content: I hope so. I'd probably buy one at such a price level.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 09:47:41 pm
content: Quote from: JohnS_AZ on August 11, 2012, 08:55:30 pmAnd it will 'not quite' work without extensive fiddling, and come with a piss-poor, unsafe power supply covered with fake approvals marks.

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 09:53:55 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 11, 2012, 09:47:41 pmI didn't say it would be worth a shit.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 10:52:24 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 11, 2012, 07:42:47 pmMany countries started up like the Chinese. The Chinese only imitated them. In 1950's a Japanese product meant cheap, bad quality product. Then Korea followed the example, then Taiwan. Is a Japanese product a bad quality one today?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 12:33:18 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 11, 2012, 09:47:41 pmA quick look on Ebay tells me that there are already many 3D printers for sale for a low price. This thread is about getting something decent for an affordable price.Edit: Look what I found on Ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Assembled-Thing-O-Matic-3D-Printer-thingomatic-Makerbot-Design-Reprap-/251126337294

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 04:14:53 am
content: Quote from: tramjoe on August 11, 2012, 08:29:43 pmWhich explains why apple and dell plus lenovo is low quality, your arguments?Quote from: Rick on August 11, 2012, 10:52:24 pmJapan was very quick at improving but china? What changed in the last 10 years?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 06:36:42 am
content: http://store.solidoodle.com/index.php?route=common/home$499 to $599

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 07:03:16 am
content: Quote from: T4P on August 12, 2012, 04:14:53 amWe've now had 35 years of capitalism in China. 35 years after the war we were generally getting good quality out of the others. It's on quite a different road. Overpopulation is a serious issue for them. We can't buy enough of their crap to make them all wealthy. In the meantime, manufacturing, engineering and hence employment growth around the world have been seriously hurt because they are attempting to sell their way out of poverty by always being the cheapest guy in the room. China version 2 doesn't appear to be on the horizon.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 02:49:26 pm
content: Companies are moving to countries like Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam because China is getting too expensive and political stability has greatly impoved in those countries.

author: caroper
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 04:24:36 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 12, 2012, 04:14:53 amRIGOL

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 07:49:11 pm
content: We are getting a bit offtopic here but the way this thread is going reminds me of a business trip many years ago. I had to go to Motorola in Malaysia for some tests with a radio system. While waiting I noticed a time-line on the wall. It appeared Motorola gave two Malaysian engineers a simple project in 1978. They did very well. From there on that particular Motorola branch evolved into a large manufacturing and R&D site. I've met some very clever engineers over there (most of them where from Chinese origin). And Motorola was not the only high tech company I spotted over there.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: caroper on August 12, 2012, 04:24:36 pmIn general, i know rigol and owon changed alot but the rest? Not really

author: RJSC
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 04:31:27 am
content: It's time someone offers an option move on past plywood! (Be it Acrylic, Aluminum, etc).I've hated makerbot industries plywood design from the first second.It's fine for an internal prototype or homebuilt clone, but for a commercial product?WTF?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 07:17:51 am
content: Quote from: RJSC on August 13, 2012, 04:31:27 amI agree. Depending on the process used, wood might even be more expensive than plastic or metal, and it's not as stable; not very suitable characteristics for the chassis of a machine that needs accurate, repeatable positioning.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 07:33:03 am
content: One thing I would also like to see, (and im not sure if this has been discussed to death), is feedback on the stepper motors.It seems to me that, no matter how good the current version is, motor feedback would make it even better.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 09:16:35 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 13, 2012, 07:33:03 amYes, that came up in Dave's review thread too. I also suggested not using steppers but regular brushed DC motors + feedback like they do in inkjet printers now.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 09:52:44 am
content: Quote from: amyk on August 13, 2012, 09:16:35 amMaybe even 3phase RC motors, as then you'd have better control of the cycles/speed.And they can handle quite a bit of speed/power.You'd just need to insure that the down gearing doesnt introduce play in the system.

author: RJSC
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 06:43:57 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on August 13, 2012, 09:16:35 amDo not forget hat takes the software part to a whole new level of difficulty!You have to do complex calculations to consider the mechanical part of the system: the inertia of the axes, the friction, etc, or else you get a positioning system that takes to long to reach its intended point, or overshoots and and has to come back a little, which leads to disastrous results on an extrusion printer.Inkjet printers get away with it because they just run the motor, read the encoder tape and fire the ink droplets when the print head is passing the right spot. In no way they stop the motor at a precise position and go back, like a plastic extrusion printer needs to do.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 08:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 12, 2012, 11:02:22 pmOK but where they want to improve they do improve.If we do not see a world war or some other global cataclysm, they will catch up with USA in technology. They already launch more space vehicles per year then Russia. They have their space station, by the way who else has? We have to face the truth one day...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2012, 09:55:34 am
content: You know what would be an i provement to this class of machines ?One that actually works....-does not run its head into the plate-Has a self leveling build platform-Has an installer that works without asking you to download 3 other packages with no info on what version you need or where to put it ( see my other posts as well as a post on makerbot forum about this. You need to download python but no info if you need 2.xx or 3.xx , installer doesn't work , unsigned drivers etc. make an installer that is self contained and does everything as opposed to having to 'figure it out')- does not shake its guts loose and destroys itself when running the demo file ( like dave did )- is made from a stamped metal chassis instead of stupid plywood or acrylic. That is good for covers only. The guts need to be solid and inflexible and rigid- has feedback on the steppers. Ive seen too many builds that somewhere in the middle skipped a detent and go all wonky...- doesnt use 'printed bits'I was at GoEngineer a few days ago to look at an industrial 3D printer (stratasys) .. Those don't use heated platforms... The whole build chamber is heated ! They don't rely on botched together scripts and finnickey broken-source but have proper CAD software drive them.If you put those machines as the reference then the makerbot is of the 'dirt-under-the-carpet' level...So, if the tangibot can improve on the points i listed above, i'd call that innovation and gladly give them my money.

author: Erwin Ried
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2012, 10:34:01 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 14, 2012, 09:55:34 amThe purpose of the RepRap/Makerbot project is to allow users to have 3d printers in their house. Can you imagine how much money you will need to have the improvements you say about stratasys, probably 10 times the price of a Tangibot.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2012, 11:25:23 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 14, 2012, 09:55:34 amIf Tangibot did only one of those things, no one would have complained.I think the two biggest improvements would have to be a nozzle distance sensor, and some way to ensure the platform is always flat.That would likely come easily with a more rigid and closer tolerance frame.The absolute positional feedback would be great, but is a massive can of worms. Simply having the unit know how high the head is would be a big improvement.And then there is all the firmware and software improvements that would make it a much better tool, without changing any of the hardware.Dave.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 12:37:47 am
content: I don't think it is very complicated to add a optical feedback system to a stepper motor. You don't need full resolution. An indicator telling the motor has missed a step is enough. When using stepper motors the current through the motor should be more than enough to ensure the motor doesn't miss a step in de first place.I agree about the casing. How much more expensive would an aluminum or steel frame be? It doesn't need to be thick as long as its stiff.

author: merser
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 02:15:22 am
content: I agree with those who remarked about the plywood chassis. It is so "look what pop made in the back shed". Offering it in acrylic is a slight improvement but still hobbyist looking. Only one of the many reasons I don't see a 3d printer as a worthwhile investment yet.If makerbot can innovate then they should be able to stay ahead of the competition or clones. If you can't innovate then pick a market that's less competitive.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 02:21:53 am
content: Quote from: merser on August 15, 2012, 02:15:22 amI think the plywood kinda looks funky and gives it a unique look, but certainly understand the "home made" feel people get.Acrylic is probably a very bad idea. It it's clear then you can see all the guts and ugly wiring etc (just look at the Thing-O-Matic). And if it's opaque colour then it's going to look pretty gimmicky and "plasticy". I'll reserve final judgement until I actually see one, but I think it's most likely going to look pretty silly.Dave.

author: merser
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 03:01:33 am
content: Yeah, I agree acrylic probably isn't the solution. I reckon if they just gave the ply a nice 2 pak finish it would make a better impression and cover up that burnt smell, lol.

author: joseph.anand
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 07:05:08 am
content: The only thing keeping me from buying any of the existing 3D printers or CNC milling machines is the absence of a feedback mechanism. For the same price, I reckon I should be able to make one with a feedback mechanism. For the time being, I am stuck with deciding on a rotary encoder with suitable gear ratio or a linear encoder for feedback. Any pointers anyone?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 01:35:27 pm
content: Why not print a 3-D printer?So you have a free one :-)

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 01:55:56 pm
content: Quote from: joseph.anand on August 15, 2012, 07:05:08 amIf all you care about is knowing if your stepper missed a step, ignore all of the following and put a encoder on your stepper;Assuming you are going to do a true servo control loop on the axis and you care about bidirectional accuracy and repeatbility:1. Rotary encoder with gearing is the worst. the backlash in the geartrain will add a large amount of position error on top of #2 below. Also will make servo tuning to a fine level next to impossible.2. Rotary encoder directly on the leadscrew or pulley of a belt system. Still has the play or reversal error of the leadscrew/nut or pulley/belt combination.3. linear encoder is the best. It measures the position directly and bypasses most all mechanical innacuracies of the axis. (there are still a huge number of things to consider to get the most out of the linear encoder feedback). It does not mean you can have a sloppy mechanical system. You will never get the servo loop tuned if the mechanics are sloppy. You may also need to have a separate motor encoder for closing the velocity loop of your control system independent of the positional control loop that is closed by the linear encoder.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 03:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 15, 2012, 01:35:27 pmwhy not print more? so you have a free one, and sell more at much cheaper price

author: joseph.anand
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 04:40:55 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 15, 2012, 01:35:27 pmI am not a mechanical engineer, but I think the quality of 3d printed gears is not likely to be as good as the injection molded ones. At the very least they may be good enough for some robotics/mechatronics projects. So while you may have a 3d printed printer, it may not be less precise than the original.

author: FJV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 04:52:45 pm
content: QuoteThe business model of inkjet printers changed *1). It used to be that the money was made on the printer and not the ink. Nowadays the money is made on the ink and not the printer. Even to the point that a replacement cartridge for an inkjet printer costs more than the printer cost brand new.Is a cheap 3D printer that cannot be serviced with hugely expensive refills, which are chippedreally progress?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 06:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: FJV on August 15, 2012, 04:52:45 pmno worry, china is ready for 3rd party cheap refills.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 09:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on August 15, 2012, 01:55:56 pmWhat about an optical encoder? They are more robust than mechanical ones and I believe they are more reliable as well. If they are going to include a servo loop, they should control it with a separate processor that can compensate for inertia instead of moving the whole axis back because of overshoot.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 09:04:57 pm
content: Makerbot should make something that looks like this:http://store.solidoodle.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=56

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 11:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on August 15, 2012, 09:02:25 pmI was only talking about optical encoders. There is no overshoot in a well tuned servoloop.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 12:05:31 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on August 15, 2012, 09:04:57 pmLooking closely at the results of the soliddoodle device I must say I'm not impressed.

author: Poe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 03:29:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 15, 2012, 02:21:53 amYou could do what Apple did... and one of my personal favorite prototype tricks. Make it out of clear plastic and apply the color to the inside....or sandblast the inside.I agree with comments regarding how 3D printers could be improved. Currently, I can't justify the price given the poor resolution, restrictions and DIY'esk support. If the price dropped and/or the product improved... I'm sure they would become ubiquitous.Even at work I find it's worth the relatively small cost to have a place like Shapeways make it. Completely hassle free, better resolution/quality, alternate/useful matterials (metal/ceramic), no design restrictions (overhangs) and relatively cheap.http://www.shapeways.com/model/565087/raspberry-pi-standard-case.htmlhttp://www.shapeways.com/model/327470/gopro-tripod-mount.htmlhttp://www.shapeways.com/model/95280/swing-motion-truck-22-7-mm-axles.htmlA desktop unit like the Replicator or this knockoff is convenient, but the speed isn't worth the trade-offs IMHO... at that price. I would rather spend three times as much and get a better quality professional unit.The RepRap project goals are ridiculous. Instead of trying (and to date failing) to 'self-replicate', design a 3D printer that can be manufactured cheaply. There are plenty of individuals brave enough to form a company around an open source design. Maybe that would be a good project for this forum?There's a machine I worked on which detected its position in 3D space with some kind of oscillating magnetic field. The concept still has me puzzled.Oh BTW, the guy behind TangiBot (Matt Strong) recently commented regarding support:"Adjunct Engineering LLC,I in no way plan on pushing off support to Makerbot. I am building a company and in doing so I plan on supporting my own community.Thanks,Matt Strong"

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2012, 01:11:38 pm
content: Quote from: bxs on August 10, 2012, 06:25:12 pmme too. he should have really teamed up with Makerbot to innovate and reduce the price, because they'll be up against the big boys soon! I couldn't justify the cost of either of these myself; I'd have to print lots of stuff to get my money back, with the basic choice of colours my house would quickly look like an early learning centre for kids.

author: mackletus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 22, 2012, 03:22:46 pm
content: Hello there,The reaction from the community was to be expected, the open hardware community has always given the "bad eye" to any "copycat" using free designs for commercial purposes, and yes, OSH is about giving your design away for free, but I think always looking for people to build upon it, not just copy.There is a BIG difference between making a copy for yourself or for a small group of friends or a hackerspace, and to try and build a company "for profit" on somebody else design (Just slapping a "new" logo/name is not enough).If anything, Matt had failed to demonstrate his abilities by not bringing any innovation to the product he is using to "Kickstart" his company and that may be an irreparable mistake.I hope this gets MakerBot on it's toes, they got a FREE market study, if there's anybody "listening" to these forums, only one thing is clear: "people want affordable/reliable 3D printers".May be they will realize this and steer on the "right" direction, or may be somebody will catch up and come up with some "real" competition. May be even Matt will regroup and relaunch his plan.We'll see....Just my two cents...MacKletus(A.K.A. Victor Milazzo)

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2012, 03:42:03 pm
content: I guess that the easiest way to level the platform is to add adjustable height standoffs under the machine, which would enable user to make it perfectly level, and then some high precision mems gyroscope attached to the build platform. I'm not that much into mems sensors, so I dunno if this is possible to achieve such high precision on a commercial mems sensor.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2012, 12:48:56 pm
content: Quote from: mackletus on August 22, 2012, 03:22:46 pmWell, with the recent announcement of the Replicator 2, Makerbot have gone in the completely opposite direction!I was a tad surprised.Dave.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2012, 02:59:05 pm
content: Cant say I was surprised. They would be hard-pressed to tool up and compete with lower-cost producers. The cats out of the bag when it comes to the low end and that can serve as a basis for people to start knocking out cheap clones done properly; even if the TangiBot effort came up short, I am inclined to believe that somebody like them *will* get it right sooner rather than later and at a price-point that MB probably wants no part of. If you look at how much small CNC milling machine you can get out of China now even cheaper than any of the 3D printers to-date (and I regard machine tools as being a good bit more challenging to design and make overall), you can see that MB has very little room to maneuver at the consumer level. And how about if somebody like an HP wants to play? How'd you like to be out on a limb with a lot of consumer grade stuff just in time for a Fortune 500 player decides to stomp you? Ugly.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2012, 05:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: mackletus on August 22, 2012, 03:22:46 pmthey should change their terms then... it explicitly allows to commercialize the designs... maybe they can put a note in ( but if you do we will give you the stink-eye )

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2012, 10:58:40 am
content: Quote from: joseph.anand on August 15, 2012, 04:40:55 pmAnd you do not notice when someone is making a joke :-)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2012, 11:42:49 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 20, 2012, 05:54:18 pmYes, but it is generally expected that you also "play nice", and at least change/improvesomething, and generally not play heavily upon their name or reputation.That kinda "warm-fuzzy" is hard to put into legal terms.IMO it was a mistake for the OSHW community to not put a few of these "play nice" things into the documented "philosophy".If some people don't agree with that "warm fuzzy" stuff, and just want to play legal-eagle, that's their right, but they risk getting burned like the Tangibot guy did. Because that's reality of how the OSHW community generally operates.Dave.

author: Poe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 05:57:34 pm
content: Quote from: Poe on August 16, 2012, 03:29:00 pmWell at least 3D systems likes that look.