Up to 85% off High Performance Spectrum Analysers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
content: Hello,We have a limited supply of the 3250 series Aeroflex spectrum analysers for sale with up to 85% off their list prices.The units are new and boxed and come with 12 months warranty and calibration.Standard Features• 7" TFT LCD Touch Screen Display• GPIB/USB/RS232/LAN Connectivity• Built in Vector Signal Analysis• DANL -145 dBm/Hz (at 1 GHz), typ -163 dBm/Hz with Preamp• Channel Power / Multi-Channel Power Measurements• Phase Noise Measurement CapabilityAeroflex 3251 3 GHz Spectrum Analyser was £7,636.Now £1,150Aeroflex 3251 3 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 3 GHz Tracking Generator was £9,423.Now £1,600Aeroflex 3252 8 GHz Spectrum Analyser was £13,547.Now £2,000Aeroflex 3252 8 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 3 GHz Tracking Generator was £15,370.Now £2,300Aeroflex 3252 8 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 8 GHz Tracking Generator was £17,872.Now £2,500Aeroflex 3253 13 GHz Spectrum Analyser was £15,727.Now £2,500Aeroflex 3253 13 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 3 GHz Tracking Generator was £17,872.Now £2,750Aeroflex 3253 13 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 8 GHz Tracking Generator was £20,731.Now £3,000Aeroflex 3254 26 GHz Spectrum Analyser was £18,578.Now £6,000Aeroflex 3254 26 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 3 GHz Tracking Generator was £20,731.Now £6,500Aeroflex 3254 26 GHz Spectrum Analyser with 8 GHz Tracking Generator was £22,876.Now £7,000For more information or to buy one of the above units please email marketing@mcs-testequipment.com or call 01492 64 30 63.ThanksMike

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 08:32:31 pm
content: Do they come with any of the options?

author: veryevil
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 09:17:09 pm
content: Are those prices ex VAT? Cheers.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 08:47:19 am
content: Hello,We are able to sell the additional options at 50% off list price.All prices listed are excluding VAT.Mike

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 10:46:37 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on July 06, 2017, 08:27:42 pmWe had a few of the 3254 (26GHz) variants. These were bought by someone for being taken to aircraft. They were generally OK units with acceptable RF performance, however they weren't exactly trouble-free as all of them had to be sent back to Cobham on at least one occasion, although our units did see a lot of use. If I remember right there were also some software bugs that didn't get resolved in the time we had the devices.The other thing is that Cobham, being a defence manufacturer, doesn't offer the same level/quality of support as the traditional T&M manufacturers. I *think* they also charged for updating an instrument's software, and there's no Service Manual available (and the chance of getting one is even smaller than for T&M gear from other companies that normally don't give them out, like Anritsu).The 325x has recently made obsolete, not sure how that affects support by Cobham.We've since replaced the 3254s with gear from Keysight.As to the asking prices posted by MCS, I'd say that's a decent offer at least for the 3, 8 and 13Ghz variants (I wouldn't pay anything close to £6k + VAT for the an 3254, though). As someone else said these units are better than the cheap China SAs made by Rigol and others. Just make a hard drive backup just in case (I believe the ones we had came with SSDs already).

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 12:56:00 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 07, 2017, 10:46:37 amThanks for the feedback.As to the service manual, I've been told by MCS that they will supply the service manual on usb stick together with the user manual.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 02:25:37 pm
content: Good Afternoon,As per the above post, i can confirm that the service and user manuals are available and will be provided with the product.Happy to answer any further questions.Mike

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 06:22:32 pm
content: One interesting spec feature for this VSA is the 30MHz wide digital IF and the 128Mb capture memory. Can the instrument be set to 'run/store' and fill this memory and then allow the user to dump out the capture memory (in slow time) to allow post processing of the captured data on a PC?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 02:18:24 am
content: Mike,Can you sell to the US? If so, is there a US service center? I know these are dirt cheap, but it's still enough money to fret over needing service.Thanks!

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 10:24:02 pm
content: Quote from: MCSTestEquipment on July 07, 2017, 02:25:37 pmDoes the service manual include schematics?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 09:59:05 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 07, 2017, 06:22:32 pmI think that it does - the manual for the digital feature can be downloaded from here:http://cobhamwireless.com/product/benchtop/3250-series-spectrum-analyzer/http://cobhamwireless.com/wp-content/uploads/Vector-Measurement-User-Manual.pdfon page 20:Get dataAfter setting up, get the IQ data from the instrumentvia the LAN interface:•IQDATA?gets IQ dataAfter you sendIQDATA?,the instrument outputsIQ data as binary data (double format, 8 byte)(not ASCII format).

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 06:51:12 pm
content: Thanks. If you can get 128Mb (total) of IQ data via LAN and it has a 30MHz capture bandwidth then these things are a massive bargain (assuming they haven't all been sold by now).It looks like you can set the sample rate and capture time before the capture event. If it has 128Mb total capture memory then I'm going to guess you could seamlessly capture a 1MHz bandwidth for about 30 seconds and dump the data to a PC. When trying to grab the whole 30MHz BW it will probably capture for less than 1 second before filling up all the 128Mb of memory but this is still very powerful. Not many people will need to be able to do stuff like this but if they do then this looks to be a great opportunity.I've already got enough spectrum analysers/VSAs etc but I'd be interested to review one of these if I ever got to see one

author: 1design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 07:59:29 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 09, 2017, 06:51:12 pmBe careful when reading the specs, the VSA only supports sample rates up to 13 MS/s and 30 MHz. This is the first time I see a different spec. for BW and sample rate. So what it stores is a but baffling to me, does it digitise the entire 30MHz as raw BW or does it only store I/Q samples at 13MS/s?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 09:07:56 pm
content: I only have a datasheet to skim over but I assume that the digital IF is 30MHz wide and this feeds to a 14 bit ADC clocked at 85.6MHz.The DSP after the ADC will presumably implement a form of quadrature detector and this will be followed by a digital LPF on each I and Q output. So if you wanted to capture the whole 30MHz BW then the I and Q LPFs will be about 15MHz and the (user configurable?) IQ sample rate would be up at maybe 42.8Ms/s. I think the 128Mb capture memory would fill up in less than a second at the full 30MHz BW.However, if you just wanted to capture a 1MHz BW then the ADC would still be clocked at 85.6MHz but the DSP would limit the IQ BW to about 500kHz meaning you could adopt a slower IQ sample rate somewhere around 1.4Ms/s and thus the 128Mb capture memory would take much longer to fill up. So you could capture this 1MHz bandwidth for maybe 20 seconds? But all of this is a guess. Maybe someone has used one of these analysers to its full potential in this respect?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 09:21:55 pm
content: To give an idea what you could do with this analyser (assuming it really can capture IQ data as outlined in my post above) then consider the scenario below.Suppose you want to analyse an offair signal that only appears now and again. You could presumably set up the analyser to trigger on the signal and fill up its capture memory. You can then dump this memory out over LAN and play back and analyse the IQ data in slow motion using something like the 89600 SW from Keysight or you could process the IQ data into a format supported by a vector sig gen (with a dual arb waveform capability that accepts IQ data files) and set the sig gen to keep transmitting the captured signal again and again at your leisure. You could set the sig gen to slow down its IQ clockout rate to make it easier to analyse if that helped?I don't think you can do stuff like this with the Rigol or Siglent analysers. But then again you could use a modern SDR to do similar stuff assuming it can match the 14 bit performance of the Aeroflex analyser?

author: 1design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 09:32:02 am
content: So, I ordered one and will report on the way it records once I get it.As far as I/Q recording, you are right, any SDR can do this as long as you have a SW package that can than demodulate that. You can also use an oscilloscope to capture the signal and use the SA as the front-end downconverter. In this case this is not a good idea as the IF output is very limited(16MHz BW).The Rigol and Siglent are very basic SA, than can't do any digital demodulation and don't offer an IF out for that purpose, this is why I never bothered getting one.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 08:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: 1design on July 11, 2017, 09:32:02 amAt work we often use the Ettus Research SDR modules like the N210 for quick and dirty research tasks for receive and also transmit. When used within their limitations they perform very well indeed.https://www.ettus.com/product/details/UN210-KITHowever, looking at that link they seem quite expensive nowadays. I didn't think we paid this much for them. We have maybe half a dozen of them. Otherwise we tend to use the Tek RSA3408A or the RSA6114A RTSA analysers for signal capture/analysis.I hope you are pleased with the Aeroflex analyser when it arrives. It seems a lot of dosh to spend on something that isn't well known in terms of its capabilities. Have you got it on a trial before buy basis?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 08:48:34 pm
content: I am very tempted by the price of these, but am still dithering.The specs are generally good (compared to say a low price Siglent or Rigol) especially the phase noise but the "Other Input related Spurious" at -55 dBc seems a little high, I'm not an expert so would value others comments on this.The Tracking Generator's Flatness spec before normalisation is pretty wide as well but then the Rigol and Siglent tracking generators are not much better.I also have a rather tiny lab so the physical size of the units would take a bit of accommodating.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:18:21 pm
content: I've not used one but I think it is probably at its best when used as a signal analyser rather than a classic spectrum analyser. So it's probably best suited for use in a business where vector signal capture/analysis is a key requirement. However, I've long since given up trying to understand the motivations of many private/hobby people on here. I still can't fathom why so many private individuals (who appear to be relative novices) will happily spend £1500-£2000 on a new (but low/mid spec) spectrum analyser. It seems a lot of money for one hobby instrument?I've never spent more than £1000 on a spectrum analyser (22GHz HP8566B about 6 years ago) and all of mine are quite old. All the others cost under £500 or were free. But they are all high performance models rather than new low/mid range units. I do have a fairly modern Tek RTSA but that was a freebie saved from a trip to the dumpster. I tend to wait patiently for used/scrap/ex rental bargains rather than buy new stuff.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:27:03 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 12, 2017, 09:18:21 pmThe advantage of the newer stuff is usually a color screen, light weight, low noise, saving data to a USB stick, LAN connectivity, some analysis functions and warranty. If I didn't already have a decent spectrum analyser I'd probably bought one of these spectrum analysers. I use test equipment to make money but there are people who just have expensive hobbies.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:49:21 pm
content: I'm really just questioning why so many people seem to want/need a spectrum analyser in the first place and why they spend so much money to get one? I've had loads of emails and PMs over the years from people looking for advice who have almost zero experience of RF. But they typically want to spend £1500-£3000 on a new spectrum analyser for home use. So I end up offering advice to a novice who wants to spend three times as much money as I have ever done on a spectrum analyser despite my background as an RF design engineer spanning many decades.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 10:10:30 pm
content: For me its the fascination of being able to see whatbis happening in the ether. A spectrum analyser is to a radio scanner like being able to look at people living in a 2D world from my 3D: I can see into all walls at once (hint: the book is called Flatlands, definitly worth reading).£2500 is out of my budget, but hell yes, I would buy the 13GHz version right away if I had the cash. What for? Just to look at the spectrum up to Ku band without havingbto use an LNB.And of course to learn about HF. Owning professional equipment is often cheaper than going to a training.And while I am constantly looking at eBay for spectrum analyser and field meter, I have never seen a 500 Euro bargain for a spectrum analyser handling up to 13 or 26GHz.This sale is an amazing deal andits within the EU, which is rare.Regards,Vitor

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 10:41:46 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 12, 2017, 09:49:21 pmIn my case I do have an RF background (MMICs) but have never used a SA - just VNAs - so I know the theory but not the practical significance of various specs. My electronics is more than a hobby though I don't make money from it, there is a lot of self-education involved with a view to possibly working in a related area again. (I view it as equivalent to say spending money on Open University modules.)To respond more directly to your puzzlement, I think that SAs represent a next-step from a scope. Though you can do a lot of electronics without using a scope, it makes life a lot easier to be able to "see" the signals and waveforms with one. I was surprised by how useful I found having a scope and was pleased to have bought one despite the cost and I think a lot of hobbyists find the same. It then is not too big a step to think "wouldn't it be almost as useful to have a frequency domain viewing instrument".In the past, new SAs were just too expensive for hobbyists to even consider but Rigol/Siglent offerings are on a par with (expensive) computers or camera lenses or other hobby purchases. The issue with second hand SAs off ebay is that they are almost as expensive (even if better specced), are physically big and heavy (which for many hobbyists confined to small spaces at home is a major consideration) and risky to buy as there is no warranty. But even wealthy hobbyists don't want to spend £1500 plus on something that doesn't do the job hence you get inundated with questions and pms etc. - maybe you're too generous in taking time to answer questions and share your wisdom but I'm glad you do.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 11:59:09 pm
content: It still seems a lot of money for casual hobby use but I guess there may be quite a few people with deep pockets on hereI'd want to know the frequency plan of the analyser and have some idea how good the image/spurious rejection was. The phase noise performance is OK for a mid range analyser and the IP3 related SFDR looks to be about 75dB (typical) in a 30kHz RBW. Back in the old days the benchmark at work for a very good analyser was 80dB SFDR in a 30kHz RBW. So this analyser is a bit short here. The 2HI looks to be fairly average at +40dBm.I think some people will not like the display as it is only 800x480. However, being a Windows based machine it might be possible to get higher resolution via the rear VGA connector on an external monitor? I found a high res mode in the program code for my (Windows OS) VNA that allowed much higher resolution graphics via the graphics card than its native 640x480 display allowed. It's fiddly to make it work in this mode but it looks amazing on a big monitor.Otherwise the front panel display on the Aeroflex looks a bit cramped and it is going to look poor when sat next to a Siglent analyser in this respect.Its main party trick is the 30MHz wide VSA mode with the ability to dump out the IQ data to a PC for remote IQ analysis (this assumes that this is a standard feature and it really does work like this). I suspect that a lot of potential customers will prefer the Siglent analyser for its better display and smaller size and lower cost.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 12:32:52 am
content: Quote from: jpb on July 12, 2017, 10:41:46 pmRight with you. I invested enough money on my degrees, that having the equipment to drive and learn on, while not cheap, makes some sense. I want to explore the frequency domain in regards to what I'm working on presently and for future projects and would prefer to buy a tool with a warranty versus a project that could likely need repair.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 09:53:11 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 12, 2017, 11:59:09 pmThank you for a very complete assessment.It is interesting what you say about the display. The Siglent display at 10" and 1024x600 with a waveform area of 751x501 is much larger than the Aeroflex 7" 800x480 display. But you may well be right about an external VGA allowing more as the Siglent only scans the 751 points it needs whilst the Aeroflex can scan up to 8192 points.Looking at the manual, the Aeroflex has zoom in and zoom out so more detail can be seen but this crowds the screen even more as it is in a separate window. A bigger display could be had by attaching an external monitor as you suggest but I suspect the resolution will be restricted to 800x480.The Aeroflex allows a full screen display giving the equivalent waveform area of 7" 800 x 480. The Siglent waveform area is fixed at 751 x 501 and presumably is 10" x 751/1024 = 7.3" so the display differences may not be as much as they first appear.It is annoying that there doesn't seem to be any option to use the external VGA for anything other than a second copy of what is on the main display.Cost wise the Aeroflex for the 3GHz model with TG is £1950 inc VAT and carriage while the Batronix prices for the Siglent 2.1GHz model with TG is £1700 but the 3.2GHz model is £3330. I know there is a hack the Siglent thread on this forum but personally I'm not happy doing so. The Aeroflex 8GHz model with 8GHz TG is less than the Siglent 3.2GHz model.I am still sorting out my lab after a house move so don't have an urgent need to buy a SA, but was wondering if the Aeroflex represented an opportunity I should take. It looks as if it is not clear cut.Thanks again.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 10:10:46 am
content: @jpb: If the Aeroflex 13GHz version was being sold second hand on eBay with all its specs listed, I am pretty sure, it would sell at a higher price than the current discounted price for a new unit.What makes you unsure is probably the brand name. While ANY R&S spectrum analyser is dead on a good choice, because the brand name speaks for itself, no amateur has probably ever heard of the Aeroflex brand. Why? Because, as Wuerstchenhund said, they are specialized for aeronautics.With the Siglent SSA3021X you are buying an entry level SSA with a whole lot of functionality, especially if you hack it. The price is amazing, compared with what is normally practiced. This again makes the SSA3021X a POPULAR device, lots of forum feedback, etc.If I was to choose between an SSA3032X or a Aeroflex 3.2GHz model and considering I was getting one of both for free, I would go for the Aeroflex. Why? Because I am attracted to professional equipement, as it allows me to learn more about its functionality and requirements than a less high end device.Note that the SSA3021X is a great device, the hack is more or less accepted by Siglent (they could have easily closed the hack, but didn't). I do own one and I like it a lot.But I have a R&S CRTU on my desk, as well. It does 9kHz to 2.7GHz and has a MUCH higher refresh rate, no matter how I configure RBW/VBW. Also, it has higher precision, is more robust, it is louder, heavier and takes up more space. Finally, it has much less functionality. No spectragram (waterfall diagram), no AM/FM demodulation, no TG, no special measurements. But the live trace is fast as hell!Conclusion:1) 85% off on new Aeroflex SA is a huge discount and allows hobby users to get a brand new professional SA. To me, only the 13GHz and 26GHz models are attractive, as low range SA like Siglent or second hand devices in good condition are still pretty near the asking price.2) Note that the Aeroflex seems to have IQ analysis and demodulators - NICE!3) £3000 might seem a lot of money for a professional SA that is owned by an amateur, but other people spend money in expensive bikes, tuning cars, smoking, ...4) You can learn a lot about HF by owning an SA - if you don't need the certificate that you took an official course, than it might to be cheaper to buy the device than attending a training.My advice: See if you can stretch you budget and go for the 13GHz + TG (3GHz) model. Even if you regret it, you will almost certainly be able to sell it on for a higher price.If you are generally unsure about SA, get yourself a cheap SMA Simple Spectrum analyser for £50 and see what its all about.Regards,Vitor

author: Astrodev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 11:21:31 pm
content: I would tend to agree where you are coming from as I also have several R&S CRTU's all with IQ options as well as a CMU200 that has Bluetooth and would agree that the capability of these instruments make them really good for certain applications,But as you say the lack of a tracking generator does limit them and I was looking at using 2 of these to create a TG, analyser setup using external control and software, however this is a cumbersome solution and requires quite a bit of setting up to get things working correctly, so when the promo email for the Aeroflex analysers arrived 2 weeks ago, I got to thinking that this would make things a lot simpler along with the possibility of higher frequency operation (providing a degree of future proofing).So it then came down to which would be the most cost effective model and initially I decided that the 3252 (8GHz version) with the 8GHz TG would probably be the best to go for and contacted MCS to see if they were available to which the answer was yes but after speaking to them decided to go up to the 3253 (13GHz version) again with the 8GHz TG.The only problem was that these had not come in yet and were due in late this week (I have since been told that this will be tomorrow 14th) and so I am just waiting for the confirmation that my unit is in so I can arrange to collect it next week.One thing I need to look at is what the base capability is as the data sheet is a bit unclear as to what the base unit firmware will do compared to the additional measurements that can be made using add on licenses, but only a few days to go until I have my unit.Needless to say I have made the decision that these are a good investment even when looking at the offerings from Rigol and Siglent as well as stacking up well against most of the analysers from the main manufacturers on the second hand market.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 12:36:20 am
content: QuoteSome R&S analysers are excellent but compared to a proper lab analyser the CMU200 and the CRTU are crude test sets with poor spurious free dynamic range, poor phase noise, poor frequency plan etc. The FSP range of analysers from R&S are also not good and are not rated highly where I work. We have (had?) several of them but I think they may have been disposed of as I haven't seen one in a while now.You can't just go by the brand name. There are also some pretty grim HP/Agilent analyser models that I would not care to use either.QuoteMaybe 20 years ago Marconi Instruments UK was bought by IFR (an american test equipment mfr). IFR were then bought by Aeroflex a few years later who have recently been bought by Cobham. So there are links back to companies like IFR and Marconi who sold test equipment worldwide

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 09:43:54 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on July 14, 2017, 12:36:20 amI remember Marconi Instruments very well from when I worked for GEC research, back in the 1980s when HP was still HP and VNAs cost about ten to twenty times the price of my flat! In those days Marconi Instruments were ok but not in the same league as HP so most of our gear was HP despite us working for the same company (GEC owned Marconi).

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 10:15:20 am
content: Please see remaining Aeroflex units we have:3251/0 3GHZ Spectrum Analyser3251/1 3GHZ + Tracking3252/0 8GHZ Spectrum Analyser3252/1 8GHZ Spectrum Analyser + Tracking3253/0 13.2Ghz Spectrum Analyser3253/1 13.2GHz Spectrum Analyser + TG3254/0 26.5Ghz Spec Analyser3254/1 26.5Ghz Spec Analyser + TG3254/2 26.5Ghz Spectrum Analyser +8GHz TG