Buying guide on High End DMM's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Random Model Maker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:10:30 am
content: I know, this may have been answered before, in some threads here and there, but I didn't find one on this exact topic.So I saw lots of posts on which DMM should I buy for 100 bucks, 150, 200,.. and what not.But I didn't see one on top-of-the-line handheld meters.So, a while ago, I blew up my meter, certainly not a high-quality one (50€), and I decided to blast my money at a state-of-the-art meter.I hate to buy twice, so I'd rather buy me an expensive, but a proper meter, than step up one category, use it for a while, buy a better one and so on.I'm still at university, so I don't know yet what I will specialise on. I'm going in that sense for an "allrounder". I also like working on tube amps, so CAT4/600V-CAT3/1000V is needed (real CAT4, mind you, not "ebay" CAT4). It should also be able to last until I finish my studies, so that'll be at least 5 years.Now, specwise I don't need everything but the kitchen sink, but I came up with these:it should measure AC and DC Volts up to 1000 (as I said, tube amps...)it should measure 10A (as the 1000V, most meters feature that)it should feature ohms/diode/continuity of course, but I'm not as anal about the continuity speed as that famous aussiewide enough capacity range would be nice, somewhat from below nF to several tens uFTrue RMS, of course, and autoranging should be on boardI don't really need temperature measuring on my meterI also don't really need a mega frequency/duty cycle range, as I do that with the scopeAlso, I don't think I'd have a need on a datalogging feature, as I am probably too dumb to use that.I already came up with a list of some meters based on what brands Dave generally praises in his vids, but I'm open for suggestions. Only thing to consider is that they should be available in Luxembourg or Germany.The obvious choice would be the Fluke 87 (which is quite expensive in Europe), but how about going against the mainstream? I also think it looks terribly ugly (personal taste, don't shoot me).Keysight U1271AKeysight U1272AKeysight U1241BKeysight U1242BKeysight U1252BKeysight U1251BGossen Metrawatt Metrahit ProGossen Metrawatt Metrahit TechGossen Metrawatt Metrahit X-TraFluke 175Fluke 177Fluke 179Fluke 28IIFluke 87V obviouslyAs to give you an indication of the prices, the most expensive ones over here are the Metrahit X-Tra and the Fluke 87V, both cost around 500€ and that's really where it hurts pricewise. The Keysight U1272A (which I find pretty sexy) is not much less.If I can get a meter for less that will perform as good as this holy trinity, maybe one of the above, maybe another brand that I missed, I will probably go for that one, because these are lots of money, even if I consider that they will last me at least one decade.I am thankful for every advice that the wise men and women in this community can give me.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:18:49 am
content: I have bought an Agilent/Keysight U1241B a couple of years ago. I wanted to have a portable DMM which I can also use on mains without worrying (too much). It is OK although autoranging and continuity are slow.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:58:57 am
content: Curious why you feel you need CAT IV 600 for working with tube amplifiers. What sort of tube amplifiers are these?After looking at the 87V, not a big fan of it. Just too weak, too old of a design and no frills IMO. People still buy them. I have not ran any of the other meters you mention.I did look at a low end Hioki recently. Maybe the DT4282 would be one to look at.I still like the Brymen BM869s for an all around meter. Well made, fairly robust, UL listed. I assume these tube amplifiers you are working on use high voltage and surprised you are not looking for something that will measure conductance. Both the Hioki and Brymen have this.I looked at Gossen and like the M250A as a general meter but I wanted the conductance and twin K type inputs that the Brymen has. They do look very well built and I would like to run one one day to see how it stacks up.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 02:28:58 am
content: HIOKI period!Also AMPROBE AM-270 cheap alternative and does everything, very well made! (Brymen inside)

author: hgjdwx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 02:47:12 am
content: You can consider the HIOKI DT4282http://bbs.38hot.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=135999&extra=page%3D2

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 04:36:53 am
content: I'll vote for the BM869 to. Really featurepacked and well build meter;http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:11:49 am
content: Get one of the half price or better Agilent branded U1242B models that guy is offering in the for sale section and skip all the cheap stuff. I think he wants $130 for them. That is a huge bargain and nothing compares at that price. I have a U1252b and love it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:57:22 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 22, 2016, 01:58:57 amOnly downside to that is the size, it'shuge.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:01:45 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 22, 2016, 05:57:22 amSize wise, I am not too concerned as I use it for a "portable bench meter" if there is such a thing and it has worked out well for this. Still, the stand is too narrow for the height and it tends to fall over. The LCD cover may be more prone to scuffing than others. I have scuffed mine and it does not see much for mechanical abuse. Was not a fan of the 9V battery but it still has the original one in it. If I could add one feature, it would be to be able to measure a microwave diode with just the meter.A few things I did not like about the Hioki I looked at was it can't read even 3 Si diodes in series. 1.5V is it. It has something going on where it has an error when an offset is applied to an AC wave. I may look into this. The higher end meter they offer does not have a bar graph. This one had it but IMO, I want one that I can see the peak readings. So far the Brymen has been hands down the best IMO for this.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:20:44 pm
content: The Gossen Metrahit Energy is handy for simultaneous measuring of voltage and current if that floats your boat, but I found it's not that great for low power energy sniffing microcontroller applications. It also has this feature where you have to physically remove the probes when switching between some ranges.The BM869(s) is pretty nice, but as others have said it's BIG, but then again so is the Gossen I mentioned.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:22:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2016, 01:18:49 amLooks like the U1241B is a good value for the money now, 250 Eur at farnell. Only you need a new set of probes for it. It is good for bench use, dont take it to the field. For that the U124xC is much better.The U1251B is too expensive. I wouldnt buy a Fluke 17x series, it doesnt have mA range. It is an electrician meter, not electronics.The 87 is just too expensive, and I'm not too impressed with it (yes, I have one on the bench I'm writing from). Becasue you get two Agilents for the same price. And weight.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 02:05:33 pm
content: Too bad you missed the 3 for 2 promo keysight had in February. Should of organized a group buy.

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 03:44:24 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on March 22, 2016, 02:05:33 pmI was on there yesterday and they still had it listed under the specials.

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 04:17:26 pm
content: I'm very happy with my Keysight U1272A. It has 30000 counts, dual display, voltage ranges from 30mv to 1000V, and current ranges from 300ua to 10A. Oh, and no OLED display to wreck battery life.I'm not sure about its capacitance measurements, but I have an LCR meter so I haven't looked into why the U1272A capacitance readings don't seem right.But all other modes are dead on when compared with my Keysight 34465A (6.5 digit) bench meter.

author: robert_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 04:27:06 pm
content: Metrahit Ultra M248310K counts, better DC accuracy than Fluke 287 and lasts about a year on 2 AA eneloops (as opposed to the fluke that eats 6 of them in <2 months)Also pretty idiot-proof with that single current input and mechanical shutter.Metrahit Energy is a bit more expensive but adds a rather good power analyzer.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:11:57 pm
content: Fluke 87V. Nuff said.But, since you're a hobbyist, why do you need to buy new? You can get a "like new" (or even actually new) 87V on eBay for 300-350 eurobucks. A used Fluke 87III has virtually all the features you need and is about 150-200 eurobucks. So you have cash left over to buy an LCR meter. Which is way more useful than any multimeter to test capacitors, inductors and transformers.Did you consider the warranty? Availability of spare parts? Can you get a new set of input jacks for your Brymen in 10 years? A replacement display? A new holster? Because you can for a Fluke.What about resale value? If you ever decided to sell it, how much would you get for your Brymen in 10 years?What about stability? My 20 year old, never recalibrated Fluke 87III is within one count (in Hires mode, no less) of my 2014 mfg. date Fluke 87V.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:36:52 pm
content: Do hobbyists really need Class IV? Do you work on distribution panels?A power amp will have to be connected to point of origin to need class IV. For Power amps usually Class II should suffice. The caps will blow your fuse indeed - but that's it.Note - I don't think class IV is bad - just that I don't know why people who don't fiddle with point of origin need it... I rarely (if at all) work on the feed side of the breakers.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:49:25 pm
content: If you put Fluke 87V on your list and added 'obviously' after it, then ... I think you already answered your own question.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 06:46:11 pm
content: I think that the most innovative and best all round DMM is the Metrix MTX3293, priced at 750 Euros. The baby brother MTX3290 goes for 340 Euros.http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/mtx-3293.html?liste=/en/produits/31

author: Random Model Maker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 07:43:56 pm
content: I just want to say that i'm not a hobbyist, but an ongoing engineer. I just haven't yet specialised in what I will do for master degree, so I wanted a meter that can "do it all" except for stuff that my scope can do. I guess you people are right, caps are better measured with an LCR, but as you always have the meter on you in the field, it comes in handy to just check if the cap is in the ballpark.Quote from: Fungus on March 22, 2016, 05:49:25 pmI put it in because Dave always compares a meter he reviews to the 87, so it is the obvious choice I thought. I remember him calling it the industry standardQuote from: Assafl on March 22, 2016, 05:36:52 pmDon't really know, I was thinking about the CAT4 probes.Maybe will I someday work the other side of the breaker, as pretty much the only company in Lux. that employs EE's at the moment is our energy provider.I just thought the more CAT, the betterThe Metrahit Ultra and Energy and the Metrix MTX3293 are just too expensive.But I never heard of Metrix, definitely going to check them out.Quote from: EEVblog on March 22, 2016, 05:57:22 amOMG, I think the Lord spoke to meJoke aside, Dave, do you still think the 87 is the best meter to get?They pop up new and relatively cheap on ebay every now and then, do they get counterfit?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 04:12:15 am
content: I don't fully understand why you're asking about high-end meters when your listed requirements are pretty basic and your budget seems limited.There are plenty of decent meters in the 100 to 200 Euros range that would satisfy your needs.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 07:30:50 am
content: I have a few high end DMM's, generally they are all good, but there are differences:Keysight U1252B: I do not like the rechargeable 9V battery, I cannot wait many hours for it to recharge when it is empty. I uses it on a regular 9V battery. Computer link is fairly cheap.Keysight U1272A: User interface is a bit complicated. Computer link is fairly cheap.Fluke 289: Slow to turn on and display has low contrast, has a very good min/max/avg display.Gossen Energy: Can measure power and energy, I do also love one A socket, it never blows a 400mA fuse. Computer link is fairly expensive.

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 10:39:58 am
content: Quote from: robert_ on March 22, 2016, 04:27:06 pmYes, I'm using Metrahit 28S (replaced by the Ultra model now) for last twelve years or so and happy with it. The battery lasts for a long time and the meter has very good accuracy on both DC and AC.CheersAlex

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 05:37:53 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 23, 2016, 05:02:42 pmPersonally, I treat my Fluke 287s like an ultra slow speed but high resolution scope rather than a DMM, as I used mostly it's data logging feature. So the crawling boot time isn't a big deal.Imo, Fluke 287/289 is way too slow to boot, and quite annoying if its the only DMM I have in hand when I need to do quick n simple measurement like battery or PSU rails.

author: hopski
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 05:44:31 pm
content: Yes it is a bit slow to boot up but when you need to use it your gonna turn it on an leave it on, you'd use another "simpler" DMM for quick routine stuff.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 06:19:35 pm
content: I think the U1282a is a really good option I plan on getting one soon. They fixed the continuity mode in the older Agilent multimeters. It also has selectable input impedance which is a nice feature to have.

author: billfernandez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 06:25:24 pm
content: I don't know if they are available where you live, but when I recently bought a do-it-all handheld DMM to replace my decades-old Fluke I bought an Extech EX540. It has all the features and ranges I wanted, (has the CAT ratings you want), is IP67 sealed, and has wireless datalogging to a PC (which I needed for some of my experiments). I bought it in the USA for about $260USD.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 02:29:41 am
content: As far as people using the Fluke 87V for reference.... It is because it was the best overall meter for may things. A benchmark does not necessarily mean the best. It is usually the most commonly known. respected, and reliably consistent product of its type at one time. Therefore it makes it easy to use a baseline to compare other products. The Fluke 87V is a well known and proven product that deserves its reputation. It is also a rather old design and there are other meters that might be of more interest or better value based on the buyer's needs and wants. The Keysight/Agilent U1272A has been a better buy to many as has many other models of different manufacturers. It is obvious that I could recommend another brand, but others have already mentioned it.Just remember when anyone says that you should only buy one specific thing and ignore anything else, you should ignore them, or at least take their "advice" with a huge lump of salt.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 02:46:53 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on March 24, 2016, 02:29:41 amNo one mentioned UNI-T yet.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:28:38 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 24, 2016, 02:46:53 amAnd for good reason IMHO in reference to the title of the thread!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 04:56:15 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on March 24, 2016, 03:28:38 amI hear their pretty good.All joking aside, I saw a post you made some time ago talking about some of their newer products. I watched some reviews on their 171 and 181 series meters. If you are still selling this brand, what's your take on these? That 181 looked like they had 4X PTCs, 4X MOVs, secondary clamps, good fuses. Specs on it looked decent. Worth having a look at?

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:07:35 pm
content: I'd lean towards a meter thst has proper batteriesnot those weird 9V transistor radio things.

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:13:35 pm
content: I recommended those old-branded U1242b meters for sale in the for sale section. They seem like a deal for $130 (I don't know the seller). I have a U1252b and love it. I just went and measured the 1252 vs the 1242 thinking if the 1242 was smaller I would pickup one. That is the only problem with the U1252b, it is a little clunky and when you are working on a frame you don't have many options where to set it.I also have a small fluke 115. That thing is like a brick. I love the way it feels in my hand and wish Agilent/Keysight made one that size with the features of the 1242 or even the 1252 ideally.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 12:33:03 am
content: Quote from: D3f1ant on March 24, 2016, 10:07:35 pmThe UNI-T UT181A has a rechargeable battery pack so it must really be good!

author: hgjdwx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 05:02:14 am
content: http://bbs.38hot.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=154389&extra=page%3D1

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 06:24:15 am
content: Discontinued Uni-T UT88B was probably made by Appa (Appa 305).

author: Random Model Maker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 12:00:25 pm
content: Quote from: hgjdwx on April 27, 2016, 05:02:14 amI'm sorry, I'm having quite a hard time reading chinese these days, but I'm certain this is really helpful to some

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 12:51:52 pm
content: Quote from: hgjdwx on April 27, 2016, 05:02:14 amWow what a fantastic resistance mode!, I have a DT4282 coming in a few weeks and I should be able to check its calibration as well. Thanks for sharing!

author: meeder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 01:43:33 pm
content: People tend to use the 87V as a benchmark but doesn't it depend on what you do with it?For my line of work (process instrumentation) the Fluke 789 is the benchmark DMM to go for.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 02:36:45 pm
content: Quote from: meeder on April 27, 2016, 01:43:33 pmYes, but the Fluke 87 has been around since the mid-late 80's, it's a known workhorse with decades of proven performance and reliability.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 06:21:38 pm
content: It looks like a nice meter. The one I tested was very impressive. I can't understand why they left the bar graph off of their higher end model.Quote from: deadlylover on April 27, 2016, 12:51:52 pm

author: Random Model Maker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 09:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 27, 2016, 06:21:38 pmWell, i've never gotten the point of bargraphs on DMM's anyway.Are they, on good meters really that much faster that you could tell about DC ripple or the likes?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 01:38:34 am
content: I never had a meter with a bar graph and like you saw no point in it. After testing several meters and some with bar graphs, I would still tend to agree with you, for the most part they are just not fast enough. However, some meters have all most a peak detect on it. The Hioki I looked at was fairly fast compared with most. This is why I was surprised the feature was removed. For some meters, the update rate on the bar graph has been much faster than the text. But no, I doubt you will see a 1fS pulse on a handheld meter's bar graph any time soon.Quote from: Random Model Maker on April 27, 2016, 09:12:30 pm

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 09:22:28 pm
content: I agree that bargraphs are only useful if implemented right - i.e., more than the display count update speed. Both my Fluke 179 and my Brymen BM857 have that done right (IIRC more than 30Hz), but I have seen others (Extech EX430, for example) where the bargraph is at the same speed as the counts. In this case it is useless.One thing I like about high speed bargraphs is detecting the AC component of a DC signal - this is useful for me to detect ground loops and induced ("ghost") voltages. It is not uncommon for me to probe a circuit using DCV but see the bargraph frantically moving, which clearly indicates an AC component.Another usage where the bargraph could potentially help is to findwinding polarity of transformers. However, in this case the lack of a delay in the bargraph makes this not as a clear reading as an analog meter.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 02:28:42 am
content: Most of the meters I've played with do the bar graph correctly. I think only a few cheap ones like a Uni-T based meter I played and perhaps a CEM based meter had the slow graph.As for the 87V, I agree with the supporters. In general I don't recommend the 87V to anyone only because the price is so high and it's easier to suggest they get a good Brymen based meter instead. I think Brymen (and Brymen based) meters are a great go to in the $100-200 price range, especially when ebay and the like are options). That said, the 87V is one of those products that just seems to work right. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but rarely seems to miss any. Like a Snap-On socket wrench, it just seems to feel right in the hand and does what you need really well.I think many of the other high end meters seem to have some type of serious drawback as compared to the 87V. The Brymens lack touch hold and they are kind of bulky (869 sized models). They also don't recess the screen as well which makes me fear they may not handle long drops. The 87V is a rather rugged meter after all. The Agilent meters I've used 124x, 125x were nice but seemed to always have something that was a "don't like" issue. The 1242's continuity tester was way to quiet and the display was a too recessed and hard to read. The 1252 again had a quiet continuity tester and poor battery life. While the 87V doesn't have the largest screen (and the 87-3's screen is actually better) the numbers seem to have just the right aspect ratio, spacing etc and I find them the easiest to read. The continuity tester is second to none in terms of speed (but I like the flashing screen of some newer meters). I think the 87V is a benchmark because it basically doesn't ever fall down even when it doesn't win.Well doesn't fall if we ignore price.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 06:22:36 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 01, 2016, 09:22:28 pmYou may have found it a bit slow because the Extech EX430 doesn't have a bargraph.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 11:38:16 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on May 02, 2016, 06:22:36 amI guess I am the one that is getting slow... It was the EX530.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 05:27:20 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on May 02, 2016, 02:28:42 amUNI-T gets no respect.

author: malekia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 08:36:52 pm
content: I'm also looking for a good DMM. I've heard a lot of models mentioned but I've my list is restricted to Fluke and Keysight. I've been watching a lot of videos (Dave/MJLorton) and my head is starting to spin.Fluke:Using process of elimination (and the DMM list on this forum) I have reduced my Fluke options to the 87V , but I'm not the least bit excited about this meter. I'm sure it's a great meter but I really want a 2+ line meter and for the life of me can't understand why Fluke has so few of these. The 287/289 are too big and clunky for my needs.Keysight:Watching all of the videos, you can't help but get the impression that the Fluke 87V is less flaky than the Keysights, but somehow I'm more attracted to these. Under consideration:U1272a/U1273a (LCD vs. OLED)U1252a/U1253a (LCD vs. OLED)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 12:22:09 am
content: What, no UNI-T?I am curious why you did not consider Metrawatt and Hioki. Here's the Fluke 289, Fluke 87V, Brymen BM869a and UNI-Trend UT181A all together .....