What Geiger counter?? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2022, 02:07:22 pm
content: Looking for recommendations on which Geiger counter to buy at an affordable price, for personal use only, in case of some nut job going Nuclear in a certain part of the world ATM!!!I was trying to find an Ex Nato type, the DOM410, which was available all over the place at one time but not now! From what I can see on youtube many of the Chinky cheapies are not accurate or reliable.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2022, 04:01:44 pm
content: you need a dosimètre not geiger counterCheck USA civil défense dosimètre, pens and chargersJon

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2022, 04:05:21 pm
content: Thanks but I do want a Geiger counter as I would want to check the local environment to.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2022, 04:39:33 pm
content: I bought some PDRM82 units a few years ago. They turned out to not be of use in my project as they are designed to detect serious levels of Nuclear fallout ! For food contamination you need something more sensitive.In my opinion the Mini-monitor 900 series of meters are excellent. They offer different probe heads for different applications including contamination testing. On the used market they often sell for reasonable prices around £100. I own a few for X-Ray detection use.There are also the GQ Electronics series of Geiger counters that appear to be pretty well supported in the community. They tend to use inexpensive Russian Geiger tubes though and are by no means perfect.https://www.gqelectronicsllc.com/https://www.gqelectronicsllc.com/forum/default.asp

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2022, 04:53:28 pm
content: I've read, too, that Russia did some nuclear simulation, and that now US is moving nuclear rockets to Finland, so yeah, I understand your concern.Beware that selling, and in some parts of the worlds even owning a radiation detector without a permit might be forbidden by local laws. Some years ago we use to have a guy, here in Ro, that developed a detector and made an application for a google map global radiation network, his nickname "radue". This is the first link from rsearchhttps://www.pocketmagic.net/global-radiation-monitoring-network/but I remember he used to have for sale radiation detectors that can be connected to LAN and continuously monitor the environment, outside or indoors. His business took flight by the time of the Fukushima events.No idea if he's still selling, probably yes.Beware many of the detectors are for catastrophic events only, and not very sensitive. There is also a big difference between radiation detector and personal dosimeters. One can stand to high radiation levels for a short time, but for measuring health damage/safety, then you'll need a dosimeter.Let's hope we will never need any of those, after all the war is always very profitable for the very rich and very powerful. My best guess they won't want it ended too soon. So unless nukes or related false flags will be used as a pretext to start a WW3 (I hope this will never happen, since now the idea is common knowledge) then you'll probably never need a radiation detector.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2022, 09:39:40 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on November 02, 2022, 04:53:28 pmThere are personal dosimeters that are entirely practical as both basic survey meters and full time dose accumulation. Upper limits of modern long life digital units can be way beyond anything practically useful (hours of exposure = dead)....but people want the clicks of a counter or something??? How about a cheap (not energy compensated) unit that a consumer might be able to get their hands on easily:https://youtu.be/dFnDluUVw7Utopping out at "just" 1mSv/h, that's already a location that is going to measure your lifespan in months. Dynamic range is not the problem, clueless users are the problem, asking for things which are the opposite of what they actually think they are getting. Oh yes, there is a video about that too:https://youtu.be/Silk2g8fS8Y

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 02:03:38 pm
content: Thanks for the input guys.So, I've done some research and with the help of a guy from an nuclear industry instruments company, whose products are superb but way out of my league on price, I found a unit called the PRM-9000 by Mazur instruments in the USA. From what I can see it ticks all the boxes for me but it still isn't cheap at $679 before shipping!So, I have a favour to ask, is there any kind and trustworthy soul in the US that I could have this shipped to so it can be forward shipped to me without disclosing the full value?! This is to avoid the very high import duty and taxes in the UK. Obviously I would cover costs of shipping to me and anything out of pocket to the person concerned.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 02:06:40 pm
content: Shipping with false customs value/declaration is an offense and the UK customs will confiscate or fine.With Brexit rules an prepay of tax/customs is now required.The cost of shipping will be >>cost of unit.Strongly suggest to try Ebay UK or local ham fleas/boot sales.Jon

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 02:14:01 pm
content: That is not the case, I buy from the US often and a number of sellers send without using that system and it always arrives ok. And those regs don't apply to private individuals.

author: bborisov567
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 02:20:03 pm
content: The cheapest option is one of theese kits with old soviet tubes. You can find them on ebay or aliexpress. They are not a mesument tool but definately will be able to tell you if there is radiation.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 02:48:00 pm
content: Thanks, I've looked at that and many similar, much lower priced options but I want Alpha particle capability as well as Beta and Gamma. I also want reliability and dependability of readings, and this is where the lower price units fall down.

author: bborisov567
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 08:34:37 pm
content: KB6011 is another chineese device that is well worth but still it doesn't have alpha capability.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 08:59:51 pm
content: Cost of shipping will probably be in the $50-100 range, plus VAT and customs. You'll be fine just importing it, especially if you can get the VAT back somehow.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 06:53:37 am
content: Rebonjour à tousI have worked at LLBL, LLNL in 1960s.I have a collection of dosimètres and scintillantors. geiger counters, most workingThe old Cold War units are not sensitive and may be éd extensif repair. Many use unavailable batteries.So, Radiation détection and dosimètre is generally a huge subject."counter" counts number of particles in the detector volume as they occur.A meter can integrate to give "counts per sec" or "counts per minute"Thus one can survey an area, machine, plant to fund max radiation filed and leakage of nuclear material.Typically an Alpha sensitive scintillator can detect Pu leaks on a nuc sub.A dosimeter is a material or device that integrates the particles that pass thru in a time period, thus relating total body exposure in a day, for example.In WWII and Cold War, these were pen sized electrometers with quartz needles and telescopes, charge to a few 100 V and discharged by the particles passing."Lauritsen Dosimeters"In the Rad labs and nuclear test series since 1940s we wore film badges with special foils to calibrate the film sensitivity.Each day or week these were turned in and developed to see the radiation dose experienced.Particles List in order of detection and dangerAlpha is a He nucleus at high speed, HARD to detect!bêta particle is a high energy electron MEDIUMgamma is high energy electromagnetic eg like x-rays. EASYMany nuclear events and devices emit only alphas till triggered, eg U235 or PuGeiger counter détection is Gamma, due to the enclosure thickness.Some cold war models of geiger tubes had super thin mica end windows that could pass some betaAlpha cannot penetrate even a fraction of an mm of paper.The detection required direct exposure of the sensitive material.Commonly a ZnS or other sensitive screen and a light détection like PM tube.Finally crystal or plastic scintillators can be for specific energy ranges of Gamma.Suggest to read a text on radiation detectors to learn before you buyJon

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 02:30:08 pm
content: Thanks Jonpaul.I am reviewing material on youtube to build my knowledge base, two things have become evident, there is no single solution to my requirement and compromise must be made with anything costing less than £1000!! I have found one instrument that is almost perfect for what I want but it is £1500!!! Superb device but I cannot justify that expense. One really good solution is a now out of production product called Radalert 50, difficult to find though and mainly in the US, shame because at the price it would have been just what I want.I'm not willing to trust anything Chinese for this application, particularly long term.So far, that Mazur PMR-9000 is the ideal choice, not surprising as the maker designed it for my market segment, a little pricey but a serious, quality device and designed and made in the US. Shame the pound is so weak against the dollar ATM!!

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:36:25 pm
content: Had to have a test done at hospital last week. Had to eat radioactive porridge, then them scan me at various times over the next 5 hrs.They said it’s perfectly safe, but I must avoid contact with children and pregnant women for the next 5 days……

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:51:51 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on November 07, 2022, 11:36:25 pm

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:53:44 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 02, 2022, 02:07:22 pmMaybe if people had done that in Europe after the Tchernobyl disaster, while authorities claimed there would be no risk, there would have been fewer cancer cases. Who knows.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:57:52 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on November 07, 2022, 11:36:25 pm"safe" as in within their guidelines for an acceptable increase in your lifetime cancer risk. Avoiding people? That's so they can also meet their "safe" guidelines for exposure to the public.If you are really interested, ask the medial provider for the radionuclide, total activity, and your dose/exposure (this is all routine information for them that will be recorded against your medical records).

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 09:03:14 am
content: RebonjourThe WWII/Cold War surplus gigers have some with Beta window (mica, super fragile) on the cylnder geiger tube so both Beta and Gamma sensitive.Typically need to clean up leaked battery compartment, fix frayed cables.Search CD/Navy alpha/plutonium survey Geiger etc.Perhaps $50..200 ea.For Alpha, DIY! See the science fair Spinarthascope...here is apaer on Silicon Alpha detectors...https://www.ortec-online.com/-/media/ametekortec/fourth-edition-experiments/fourth-ed-4.pdf?la=en&revision=ec8afead-fdb0-4ea6-8b18-8120a7323c87&hash=3A3B881CC982DFA49ECE351A5648B2AEYou can get a ZnS screen anbd eyeball it with a jewlers loupe...OR build a sensitive photosensor/photomultiplier.ZnS or other scintillator must be exposed direct to the Alpha source, ever a few " air or piece of paper stops the Alphas.Jon

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 07, 2022, 11:53:44 pmThats how the west discovered the disaster, radiation alarms went off all across Europe and by the isotope signature they knew it was from a Nuclear power station. Thats when the Russians had to 'fess up. Poor Ukraine has suffered so much at the hands of Russia, and the whole world has had to share the bill to prevent, or at least reduce further risk from Chernobyl.

author: xmris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:57:27 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 03, 2022, 02:14:01 pmhell, no! You are maybe lucky so far, I once got a couple of CDs from the states and I had to pay the VAT for them (this long time before brexit).Also, I recently got a computer system from Europe, the package stuck a week at the customs then a nice bill came before that: 20% VAT + 2.something % Import Duty + £8 fee for the Royal Mail, the biggest eff up is after a month I had to return that back to seller (faulty device) - in fact the package went ping-ping between the customs of two countries, then ... lost for ever - and guess that the royal mail refused to pay in full the insurance just because the delivery involved the other country's postal service.. lovely, innit ?

author: xmris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:08:03 pm
content: I have the Terra-P (ukrainian made), alas not that cheap - i ve got mine some 15yrs ago, it's not that bad - don't ask about accuracy I have no idea, but once I had to do a test at hospital - radioactive stuff IV injected- then ,back at home, I tested it on me and it chirped like crazy!

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:17:57 pm
content: Quote from: xmris on November 08, 2022, 02:57:27 pmI was referring to the rules on minimum values and having a VAT account. Private individuals can send what they like, excepting things like offensive weapons etc.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:22:11 pm
content: Quote from: xmris on November 08, 2022, 03:08:03 pmI've gone for the Mazur PMR-9000, not cheap but it will do virtually everything I need. Also, I've discovered that Geiger counters are exempt from UK vat and import duty! Well, according to the checkout on Amazon US that is!!

author: zrq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 12:31:43 am
content: Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I just encountered this interesting paper by PTBhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1350448721000950about how accurate (inaccurate) these cheap Chinese-ish personal dose meters are.TLDR: most of them are sensitive enough, but lacking energy compensation so absolute reading is meaningless unless you know what you are being exposed to.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2022, 03:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: zrq on December 04, 2022, 12:31:43 amHave seen a number of youtuber reviews on these and all make the same comment.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2022, 07:22:25 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 03, 2022, 02:48:00 pmJonpaul is 100% correct in post #13. Alpha is VERY difficult to detect in practice and you don't want to include that capability unless you're sure that you need it. The windows used for the Alpha-capable tubes are extremely fragile andmostof them are quickly ruined when in use. Among the other problems is that Alpha is VERY short ranged (2 to 3 cm even when looking at plutonium) and you have to put the detector tube right up against the item to be tested and that greatly increases the chance of damaging the window.Realistically, if you want to look for Alpha sources, you're probably going to need a separate detector. When I worked with the US Civil Defense (many years ago!) we used three separate rad detectors. And IIRC none them were Alpha capable.The book 'The Day We Lost the H-Bomb: Cold War, Hot Nukes, and the Worst Nuclear Weapons Disaster in History' contains some good details about what's it's like to look for radiation sources in real life.