I cried... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SopaXorzTaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:23:21 am
content: This guy asked on the Raspberry Pi forum why his board won't work after installing an LCD extension, and posted this image:The post:https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=136958

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:30:12 am
content: Wow. He has leaped before he has looked. He appears to think the solder is an adhesive and that is how it does it's magic. Cargo cult level understanding. Or a really good troll. One or the other.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:02:58 am
content: My god, did he solder with a frying pan?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:05:02 am
content: Looks on par for a beginner doing wire-board with fluxless solder,

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:11:29 am
content: If that had been one of the super rare unobtainium pi zero's, shit would hit the fan

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:05:46 am
content: Not that bad. Judging from the blob's shape, probably most of the solder actually didn't miss the board.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:09:01 am
content: "I have plumber's solder and propane torch and am not scared to use it............"

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:11:44 am
content: Don't worry... some 120 grit sandpaper will fix that right up.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:38:41 am
content: He can always use one of those new solder removers:

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on February 25, 2016, 11:11:44 am..... hmmm - don't think so.Quote from: AlxDroidDev on February 25, 2016, 11:38:41 amTHAT's more like it!

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:57:22 pm
content: That angle grinder is the best solder remover ever, requires some cleaning up afterwards though.Not too bad, just a banister broom to sweep up the metal flakes, fibreglass, broken glass, blood and tears.Reminds me of that teardown I found of a device sealed in solid rubber. Guy used a bandsaw to cut it into chunks, would make it tricky to make a DaveCAD of the circuit though.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on February 25, 2016, 01:57:22 pmNah, just use the bandsaw (or deli slicer) to cut it into 1mm strips, then simply scan each strip front and back and voila, you can reconstruct the images into a 3D model!They did it about 20 years ago with a human being, so it should work great for potted electronics! (Seriously, they did. I want to say it was a prisoner who had donated his body to science. Froze his ass with liquid nitrogen and sliced it like deli meat. Then they put him on a CD-ROM!)

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 03:11:19 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 02:10:41 pmThey did it twice. It would be unfair to women if they hadn't sliced a femaled body as well. More here -->https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_Human_Project

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:27:00 pm
content: This is what worries me about some of the people in the Maker movement. They come along all enthusiastic shouting about how they have 'made' something when all they have done is slot some parts together and write some code. When they have to do some real construction stuff like this happens.I regret to say that we're going to see more images like this one.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on February 25, 2016, 10:05:02 amThe scary part isn't that it's crap soldering, we all started somewhere. The scary part is that he can see that it's all shorted together and can't figure out what the problem is...

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on February 25, 2016, 08:27:00 pmand by "write some code" you mean copy-paste random snippets found on the internet.everyone's going to start somewhere, but..

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:42:50 pm
content: Hot glue, solder - what's the difference?Honestly, it's strange to see such simple things not being obvious.

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:54:28 pm
content: Oh my.....that's not even funny...

author: os40la
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:02:57 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on February 25, 2016, 09:40:12 pmI agree

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:05:22 pm
content: I sure hope so

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:27:41 pm
content: It would be hard to do that on purpose, I think. Unless we used a red-hot nail for an iron and fluxless lead-free solder.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:28:56 pm
content: You know, people at my age (15) at my country who are doing "electronics" for fun are mostly those kind of people. why? because showing people that you got free movies on the tv from your pie pc is better then showing your led blinker or something like that.I hate those makers, but people who dont do electronics, prefer them.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:13:18 pm
content: This isn't so uncommon for someone who doesn't have any experience with soldering nor know the basic principles. Here's another example:

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:24:34 pm
content: These all-thumbs people need some mentorship. Sure we can laughand cryand face-palmat these soldering disasters.... but I can totally understand why they are having so much trouble. Nobody teaches these skills in grade school, and they didn't care to watch a YouTube video explaining the basics, like this one I found:What I see is this: They just apply the solder to the end of the iron until it beads on until they have a huge "drop" of solder hanging off the end of the iron tip.... Hovering over the area they want to solder, the huge blob falls down and just rolls around sticking to everything and getting a cold weld that will likely break off with any force.They don't understand anything about using flux, or flux-core solder, and the fact that solder flows to the heated item, getting sucked on to it and producing a nice fusion. They need to know that they need to put the iron on the metal of the joint they want to solder to, and then apply the solder to the joint once heated to let it flow onto it.So while it is very humorous, they have my sympathy. I hope they get some help, and soon, before they blow themselves up.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:29:47 pm
content: I'm wondering if he tried to heat the pins up first then apply solder, I never had this sort of trouble starting out, granted it was wire to wire connection not pin headers, but still.I was told from multiple sources to heat up the wires with the iron, then apply the solder, but that just didn't make sense to me, I just went right ahead and used the solder to help get the heat into the wires or whatever it was I was soldering, and then just... well, solder until it's a good connection.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:34:08 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 25, 2016, 11:29:47 pmA little knowledge is a dangerous thing....All they see is Iron - hot, solder - melt, job done.Admittedly, when you have someone who knows what they're doing, it can look as simple as that.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 25, 2016, 11:29:47 pmYou obviously had some sense of what was actually happening, giving the physics a bit of respect.As for heating the solder first, it is not an uncommon practice in order to improve heat flow onto the connections - but it will kill off the flux in that blob on the tip of your iron. The solution is to make sure you get some flux onto the joint and all is good.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:39:22 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 25, 2016, 11:34:08 pmTrue, it probably helped that I just started with basic stuff, and figured out a bunch of it myself (good vs bad solder connections), but these days with the internet, I don't see how this should be possible. There must be hundreds of soldering tutorials out there and you'd think someone would quickly check out the basics before doing this sort of thing.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:41:30 pm
content: Anyone have a try at caulking their bathrooms and kitchen?It's the same idea.... If you have ever tried caulking, it is not as easy as it looks. There are a few basic "tricks" that need to be learned to get a nice clean look and finish. Someone sees a pro do some caulking and they figure... cut tip of caulking tube, squeeze caulking gun trigger, slide along wall, walk away... everything will look awesome.There are many examples where little tricks are necessary to get the job done quickly, cleanly and correctly!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 12:03:53 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on February 25, 2016, 09:40:12 pmHas to be. You would have to work at it to make something look that bad.I learned to solder just from reading some basic instructions, probably from a Forrest Mims book. I still have some of my first attempts, they worked and don't look bad at all.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 12:19:26 am
content: Quote from: rdl on February 26, 2016, 12:03:53 amYou'd be surprised... I've seen my share of these types of things. I've had many moments shaking my head in disbelief that someone could be so incompetent. Yes it happens. I actually believe this (what I presume to be a) "kid" just got all excited with his new gadgets and actually is soldering stuff for the first time as claimed in the thread, and has absolutely no idea what to do. And perhaps not understanding electrical principles either and the fact that everything is being shorted out, treating solder like some kind of magical glue.Don't try this stuff at home:

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:23:26 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 25, 2016, 11:29:47 pmThe trick is to use a tiny bit of solder first to get the heat transfer going, and once it starts to flow then you feed in fresh solder to make a good joint.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:43:27 am
content: Quote from: RobertoLG on February 26, 2016, 02:09:54 amJust watched the first one and the titles of the other chapters. Very professional and looks comprehensive, at least for hand soldering techniques. I think I will watch the whole thing. I see some soldering scenarios that I never knew the "correct" way to solder or judge before (e.g. certain terminals they solder to)

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 03:00:55 am
content: Quote from: JoeN on February 26, 2016, 02:43:27 amjust jump in

author: Connoiseur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 03:46:00 am
content: None of you are right.This is the correct way to solderhttps://youtu.be/nXkOxP5hka4

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:13:15 am
content: Quote from: Connoiseur on February 26, 2016, 03:46:00 am... and I've always wanted to do TIG welding!!(PS - My forehead now has a keyboard imprint on it.)

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:33:31 am
content: Quote from: Connoiseur on February 26, 2016, 03:46:00 amLoved that one when it came out. What's that other guy that does videos like this? (such as the electric guitar)Can't remember his name but those are great too.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:37:56 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on February 25, 2016, 09:29:52 pmEven scarier, is all the people who see that he can see it's all shorted together, yet accept as literal truth his claim to not know what's wrong. Y'all getting trolled hard.Either that, or the dumbing-down program is succeeding beyond all expectations - producing a guy who's so brain damaged he doesn't understand electrical conductivity, and a bunch of other guys who think it's conceivable that a normal human being might not get that.Edit to add: Not sure which side I favor. At first I thought 'troll/shill' (same as the flat Earth nonsense), but then there are things like this:http://9gag.com/gag/aGxy70XSomeone who claims to not understand refraction at a water surface.

author: Jaunedeau
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 06:35:44 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on February 25, 2016, 08:27:00 pmEnlightening. I should stop complain about arduino and complain about Maker mouvement. And arduino.

author: SopaXorzTaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:19:21 am
content: Quote from: Jaunedeau on February 26, 2016, 06:35:44 amYeah, Arduino and all that stuff sucks. Today's kids think:Insert an LED into a breadboard -OMG TEH ELEKTRONIKS GURUCopypaste some code snippets from the internet -OMG I CAN PROGRAMMAttach a servo to an Arduino -OMG I MADED A ROBOTZ!1

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:22:52 am
content: Had a guy post these pics over on the PIC forums about a year ago. Swore up and down he did it correctly and the circuit, as designed, must be faulty. Then one of the guys on the forum somehow found out the clown that posted the pictures lived across town from him in Denver. Game over...

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:24:41 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 26, 2016, 05:33:31 amelectroBOOM! ?

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:56:35 am
content: Quote from: Connoiseur on February 26, 2016, 03:46:00 amThese people really scare me.Why can't they just play around with something less dangerous...

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:13:42 am
content: Quote from: TinkerFan on February 26, 2016, 07:56:35 amCheck out his other videos, this is a comedy oneQuote from: Skimask on February 26, 2016, 07:24:41 amYup, that's the one.

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:58:14 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 26, 2016, 08:13:42 amYup, that's the one.But what scares me that there are certainly people out there that do this without having fun...

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:18:15 am
content: Quote from: TinkerFan on February 26, 2016, 09:58:14 amBut what scares me that there are certainly people out there that do this without having fun...And those people get electrocuted and die, making sure they can't pass on their genes and proving Darwin correct once again.I'm not really seeing a downside.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:24:40 am
content: That still from the clip makes me cringe every time I see it....

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 01:14:23 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 26, 2016, 05:37:56 amYou should see some of the questions on the model railroad forum I participate in, people have trouble figuring out a SPDT toggle switch. I am not exaggerating. While it is somewhat incredulous that someone could be that ignorant to think that soldering job should be ok, it's not outside the realm of possibility. It seems crazy to most people here because we all have education and/or experience with electrical and electronic things. I'd LIKE to think it's a troll.--Randy

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 01:19:56 pm
content: Quote from: Connoiseur on February 26, 2016, 03:46:00 amBig Clive gives away his true expertise with the nicely pre-tinned wires. A properly 'tigged' lead might have looked more like this:In the video comment text he admits having to prep the LED with a couple of resistors soldered on the back in order to get satisfactory pyrotechnics.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 01:28:15 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 26, 2016, 05:37:56 amOnce upon a time i was fixing a laptop charger for a friend of a friend, which essentially involved splicing a wire torn out of the plug.Simple thing - clean, solder, insulate.Well, he was looking at me doing it, then got a phone out, then posted a picture on Facebook with something to the effect of "he just fixed it by putting molten metal on the wire!" under it.He genuinely never saw soldering being done, it was a little miracle for him.So, i think it's conceivable that a normal human being might not get that.The odd part is trying to learn a new skill without doing enough research to understand the fundamental stuff.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 01:46:42 pm
content: Reminds me this:By the time of the post, GF7800 was a ridiculously expensive beast.

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 09:50:20 pm
content: This entire thread can be summarized with two words:Dunning-Kruger.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 02:47:54 am
content: Quote from: cimmo on February 27, 2016, 09:50:20 pmThat reads as being related to the concept I posted earlier which was Cargo Cult. Or maybe it is just monkey see-monkey do. The monkey simply isn't understanding everything involved.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 07:23:16 am
content: I think it's more complex than what has been described so far. Back in my day kids (and adults) didn't have the Internet. That meant that the places you went if you wanted to do this sort of stuff was Tandy/Maplin where you'd get sent away with some helpful advice and a Mimms book or down the library. All material was reasonable quality and relatively complete I.e. you'd know not to buy a soldering iron and stick it up your nose.Then came the internet and self publishing which was a veritable breeding ground of bad ideas. From this emerged the best of all the bad ideas; the 'maker movement' shrouded in oodles of marketing and the associated product push where everything was prepackaged and magical. That decreased the barrier of entry to 'any old chump with a few $' to spare. A few years on it's turned into a back patting cut and paste cult with a disingenious open source label and ultimately detrimental to the knowledge of all consumers of this. I say consumers as youre building a product.1. Need to light an LED.2. Hit maker crap shop.3. Buy LED lighter module for $20.4. Play with it.5. Buy 26 more of these modules and an arduino while adafruit roll around their well equipped offices laughing.6. Stick together like Lego7. Look I am teh engineer.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 07:50:30 am
content: Quote from: SopaXorzTaker on February 26, 2016, 07:19:21 amCopypaste 2 codes after eachother, Help, cry, It doesn't work. What is wrong? Anybody knows the keyboard shortcut to make it work?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 07:56:52 am
content: Quote from: SopaXorzTaker on February 25, 2016, 09:23:21 amLet's stop selling our product as a kit, and start selling it completely assembled.Even for the same price, it's more "interesting"

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:10:29 am
content: Don't always get this whole mightier than thou attitude towards beginners, yes you now more, but you likely started in a similar place,While there are big gaps between plug module A to module B and copy supplied code, and making a pcb from near scratch and coding it yourself, it also comes down to how much you value your free time.Equally i expect you to have at least 3 close relatives each that consider electricity magic in many respects, they never took interest to finding out why or how, and moved on, the same could be said for a beginner putting a giant smear of solder over multiple pins, as dumb as it seems, those without a solid concept of even DC principles wont know that each pin does something different,.. I write documentation for automotive electricians and bodybuilders every other day, to fit some of those simple modules, people trained to trade level... and i need to explain how to measure a voltage with a multi-meter to some of them over the phone because they thought amps and volts where the same thing....Those guys i facepalm, a beginner on the internet, i'd be more willing to point them into the right direction of why, after learning a mistake the hard way,

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:44:44 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on February 29, 2016, 08:10:29 amThat's a fulltime job, and emotionally not rewarding.All beginners make mistakes, but the ones with the potentional of improving, discover their such obvious mistakes themselves.You will be filling your day communicating with the part of the population that refuses to type words in google.com

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:55:51 am
content: at least he wasn't palying with mains or that could have ended badly

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:10:00 am
content: Quote from: RobertoLG on February 29, 2016, 08:55:51 amI had a friend, who I have ranted about previously, who has been hit by the mains 4-5 times and is under the incorrect assumption that because he hasn't died those times, he probably won't in the future...Never underestimate idiots.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 11:00:55 am
content: Quote from: MrSlack on February 29, 2016, 09:10:00 amTry asking him if he thinks that same idea applies to being hit by a car....

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 11:19:33 am
content: Quote from: Scrts on February 26, 2016, 01:46:42 pmThat's fantastic. Reminds me of the numerous stories from the early 1990s about peopletrimming down 5.25" floppies to fit in their new 3.5" drives.(And having done tech support, I absolutely believe those stories.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 11:28:00 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on February 25, 2016, 08:27:00 pmWhat you say is true. That said, I still think it's a good thing in the end, because I'd rather have people interested and learning and trying, instead of just sitting at home watching Jersey Shore (orFrauentauschfor us German speakers!).What frustrates me isn't the people who try, fail, and ask for help. What bugs me are people like this guy, who doesn't know what he's doing, but feels compelled to publish a tutorial anyway:Quote from: edy on February 25, 2016, 11:24:34 pm(Like seriously, why are there dozens of soldering tutorials by people with demonstrably awful technique? There are already great ones like the ones from PACE, EEVblog, etc…)

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 11:35:54 am
content: Quote from: Scrts on February 26, 2016, 01:46:42 pmThis is actually a reasonable thing to do if you want to fit a graphic card into a server mainboard, as all cards will run happily at PCI-e 8x, 4x or 1x and cutting a 10$ graphic card is more reasonable than cutting open the PCI-e 8x slot on the 400$ motherboard, especially as there are sometimes components behind the PCI-e 8x slot on the motherboard. Most probably he just shorted the pins together with the chippings from the cutting.Nonetheless I wouldn't do this to a 600$ graphics card.

author: nogood
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 04:07:21 pm
content: Quote from: ruffy91 on February 29, 2016, 11:35:54 amIIRC that was an PCI-E -> AGP conversion, i.e. not a good idea

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 05:39:27 pm
content: The modifications actually look fairly impressive for a non-troll. I was trying to match pinouts and it looks for all the world like 64 bit PCI, but its PCIe 16x. He didn't just cut off a bit, he also added keys, and did it well enough that its hard to tell they were modified, at least at low resolution.If it was done by a complete moron I would expect the cutting job to be much sloppier. But maybe its just an example that skill in one field does not convey skill in another, though the people involved often don't seem to realize this. Being good at one thing must mean you can do anything, right?I would caution people beating their chest over how superior they are or how much better things were in their day to be wary of this - you almost certainly deal with people every once in a while who can not believe what a fing moron you are. As an example, lots of talk of cut-and-paste programs, but that's how a lot of programmers see all EEs trying to program. And how EEs see programmers trying to do hardware...

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: nogood on February 29, 2016, 04:07:21 pmIt was AGP->PCI conversion. There was no PCI-e yet.

author: nogood
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 10:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: Scrts on February 29, 2016, 09:54:45 pmOf course there was, even my old GF 6600GT was available in both PCI-E and AGP. I think the 7xxx didn't do both anymore... (edit: apparently, yes it did. At least in one version)

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 12:02:15 pm
content: I had a BFG7800 GS OC (AGP) from BFG Tech. BFG was one of the finest graphics card manufacturers back then (NVidia only), but they left he graphics cards business (and apparently have folded). The BFG 7800GS was possibly one of the best AGP GFX cards ever made (certainly one of the top 5), with a price tag to match, and was one of the last high-end AGP cards manufactured, because by the time it was released everyone was already moving to PCIe.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on February 29, 2016, 08:44:44 amAt least that last one we have a simple solution for:http://lmgtfy.com

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 06:25:34 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 02:10:41 pmThere's a classic laboratory technique that goes something like this:Take a lab rat.Give it a dose of some compound of interest, suitably labelled with a radioactive element.Allow time for the compound to distribute to the places of interest in the rat.Drop live rat into liquid nitrogen. This prevents post death processes from moving the compound or its breakdown products from where it would be found in life.Slice frozen rat with bandsaw/whatever into slices.Place each slice onto a sheet of photographic film.Radio-labelled compound exposes film (an autoradiograph).Develop film and discover where compound ended up.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 06:54:14 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 01, 2016, 06:25:34 pmHm, i thought the last 4 steps were replaced with various forms of computer tomography these days.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 07:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on March 01, 2016, 06:54:14 pmThat won't answer the question "Where does the potassium in this drug end up?' - for 'potassium' substitute the element/radiical/ligand of your choice. But, yes, the technique is pretty old and some of its uses can be replaced by more modern imaging techniques but a packet of X-ray plates and a Dewar of LN2 are cheap. Also this technique has fantastic resolution, on the order of a few microns or smaller.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 08:19:21 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 01, 2016, 07:06:50 pmI'd hate to be the intern that accidentally drops the rat after it's pulled out of the LN2 dewar. Then they have to spend their entire afternoon super gluing all the bits of the rat back together like a lamp! XD

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 09:05:57 pm
content: This sounds like a plot from Blackadder, where is Baldrick when you need him?