Easiest To Learn/Use PCB Software? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: The Doktor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 01:28:11 am
content: There seems to be quite a few to choose from, KiCAD, Altium, Allegro, etc. I'm going to be designing a few boards for personal use. I'll be using 4 layers on at least 1 board, and a mixture of through hole and surface mount components.I'm not going to be looking for work in PCB design (or anything else), so don't care about looking good on a resume. Most programs are available online for "deep discounts"so I'm not worried about price. Just want to design a few boards with least overall effort. It would be good if there are tutorials and online forums where I can learn. What do you recommend?Ed

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 08:31:41 pm
content: Hi,Most used softwares are Eagle and Altium.I recommend Eagle beause it is easy to use and you can find a lot of tutorial on the net.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 12:28:49 am
content: Judging on other people's experience with Eagle and my own with Altium both would be on the bottom of my list of simple to use programs.If you want something simple without fuss then perhaps the lower cost packages could be a quick start at the cost of having to do without good support for the logistics part of the PCB development process (managing components and creating bill-of-materials).Either way many CAD/PCB packages have a steep learning curve and each has their own work flow which you may or may not like. With the requirements set by the OP I would start to look at Kicad. Also don't get fooled by the size of the libraries: you will have to create your own symbols and footprints because no library is ever complete. I've been designing PCBs using computers for nearly 25 years and each design needs new components and footprints.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 01:13:24 am
content: > Easiest To Learn/Use PCB SoftwareDipTrace wins this in my opinion, but to be fair I have never tried the Altium offerings. Versus KiCAD, gEDA, Eagle, Design Spark and a couple others I've tried over the years, DipTrace is the most intuitive to operate.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 09:38:32 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on June 09, 2016, 01:13:24 amI'll second that.DipTrace is super easy to learn, I worked with eagle before I switched to diptrace.The software is very intuitive to use, so I have needed only around two hoursto become familar with the concept and start my first DipTrace project.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 08:37:18 pm
content: EAGLE, KICAD or RS Design Spark.For EAGLE, you will have to "obtain" a licensed copy for 4 layer, not sure what RS Design Spark's layer capability is, but it's free, and KICAD is Open Source.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 11:13:06 pm
content: DipTrace.Tried Eagle, KiCad and so on before too.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 12:32:21 am
content: For DipTrace 4 layer is the standard package - $395 unless you get non-profit ($195).For more than 4 layers extended package required ($695), for "unlimited" layers, "full" version required, $1,195Now, there was / is a key floating around (not sure for V3) that allowed you to use a "developer key" to give you the standard non-profit version (4 layer, 1000 pins) for free, you had to set your keyboard layout to Russian and tit around a bit, but it worked.You can download a free version (300 pins, 2 layer) to try it out.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 01:43:11 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on June 10, 2016, 12:32:21 amThey can offer way cheaper licences for hobbiests (non-commercial) if you ask them....http://diptrace.com/buy/non-profit/If you later decide you need to go commercial, you can just pay the price difference then.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 09:31:48 am
content: Yup, is why I put the NP price on the 4 layer "standard" version he would require, although I did make a typo should have been $125 rather than $195.But, in my opinion, it is not an "easier" learning curve, it's just a different one, there is not "better" software, they can all produce what you want, it's all about how you get on with it at a personal level.The OP should watch a few tutorial videos on each of the suggested and make a decision based on their perceived ease of use and cost implications.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 10:04:19 am
content: +1 for DipTraceI did my first board (admittedly only 2 layers) using a non-profit licence they gave me for free and it only took me the weekend from schematic to final layout. DipTrace is easy to learn and custom components (I need an RF transformer custom component) are simple and quick.https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWy-YwxbAu8EkNv6iMsfLeH6Yahcwejwx

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:03:10 am
content: I'm always baffled whenever anyone recommends EAGLE for a beginner... It's the epitome of horrible UI design. Use anything but.Designspark PCB is fairly workable for a beginner, and you can do 4-layer for free. And now there's Circuitmaker which is also free for open source hardware, if that applies to you (and is much more professional than EAGLE).KiCad is an option worth looking into if you can invest a lot of time into learning it.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2016, 10:58:05 am
content: Quote from: janekm on June 10, 2016, 11:03:10 amWhile I have been using Eagle for years (and continue to use it), I fully agree.Eagle has many things going for it, a lot of them based on the fact that it is so well-established: comprehensive libraries, many PCB services accepting Eagle files directly, many tutorials available online etc.. But usability is certainly not one of them. Even for the most common operations, Eagle's concept of always having to select the operation before you select the part takes some getting used to. And for not-so-common steps, I keep coming back to Google for instructions, because I just can't remember Eagle's quirky procedures.Quote... and if you are happy to (a) have all your designs automatically published, and (b) have them stored in the cloudonly. If Altium ever loses interest in CircuitMaker, all your designs will be gone, right? CircuitMaker is not for me, I'm afraid.Edit: typos...

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 10:29:10 am
content: Ive basically just got in to PCB design as someone who has an interest in electronics, and tried Eagle, and really like it. So I dont understand why so many people hate on it so much.Ok, maybe its not theperfectuser interface, and maybe there are some features missing that would make it a nicer piece of software (especially if you are used to them in other packages) - compared to other products - but its certainly not a completely unusable piece of software that some people make it out to be. Personally, I am feeling reasonably confident and productive with it after only a couple of weeks.I started quite simply by watching a few series of videos from different people on YouTube in order to get (or affirm) a couple of opinions and view points about how to do thingsbefore I really even sat down to start using the softwareso that my expectation and mindset was defined. No fighting the UI or tools trying to do what I think itshoulddo orwantit to do, but knowing what itwilldo.Dont fool yourself with the process. Start with the schematic editor and get comfortable with that, and then learn how to do the PCB layout. The two are tightly linked. The PCB layout may really be what you want at the end of the day, but you need to build the circuit first and be able to make changes easily, and then that will make the PCB portion a more successful operation.Now I am doing schematics, PCB layouts, and creating my own libraries of components including new component footprints for parts that arent included with the bundled libraries.But Eagle has just been bought out by Autodesk so theres a little uncertainty for the future (how will it be priced, bundled, etc), and Altium has dropped its price for CS (perhaps in response). The Eagle pricing structure was always a bit iffy to me, I do genuinely like using Eagle, it seems to suit me, but I really dislike some of the "crippling" board size limitations - over $800 for only 16x10cm (or nearly $600 if you can live without the autorouter)Altium CS doesnt seem to have such a limitation that I could see from a quick glance (at least its not a "selling point" like it is with Eagle), so now Im feeling a bit in limbo about whether to stick with Eagle, or switch to Altium CS... I suppose I should give Altium CS a go (or maybe not, Windows only and I use a Mac!!!)Also adding a little doubt to my mind about Eagle recently was a roughly 2 week period where it would crash continuously. That seems to have stopped now, but if its happened once, theres a problem that could always flare up again.Thats just my experience and take on it. I for one am quite happy with Eagle. If the board size limitations werent so strict and/or the price a little cheaper I'd probably jump and buy with less hesitation. Of course, I havent compared it to Altium, and maybe that would cause me to change my mind. But as a first time user, it doesnt seem that bad.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 04:47:18 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on June 09, 2016, 01:13:24 amI would agree. I use Altium plus Proteus & DipTrace is the package I reach for when designing a new board of moderate complexity (say 80 to 200 components) as it is very intuitive & it "just works".There have been a lot of improvements with version 3, especially 3.0.0.2 so upgrade to it if your using an old version.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 10:25:17 pm
content: +1 for Diptrace.AndSilver Circuitsaccepts Diptrace files directly so you can get your PCBs made without messing with Gerbers.

author: drtaylor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 11:09:19 pm
content: If you're willing to use a Macintosh, there is an incredibly versatile and easy to use program, Osmond PCB. It easily does multilayer, (I've done up to 12 layers), complex plane designs, and ease of editing. It can handle blind and buried vias. I've made numerous professional, in production, boards with Osmond, and couldn't be happier. It is only $79 US (limited time offer). It can do layout tricks that no other low cost PCB program I'm aware of can do. I've compared features with my companies expensive PC based layout program (CadStar), and for ease of use, and pure capability, it can't touch Osmond.The developer is engaged and adds features and fixes any bugs. You do have to input a net list, or adapt your schematic capture program to output the net list in Osmond format. I wrote a macro to do that. The nice thing is that the data is in text format, and is easy to edit.Check it out at Osmondpcb.com. I have no association with the developer other than being a satisfied user.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 06:25:15 pm
content: QuoteIt is only 14 layers

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 06:45:25 pm
content: i'm not going to try to convince anyone... but Eagle Make edition (non-profit) gives me 160x100mm size 6 layers at the price of 160Euro.that 1000pin limit of non-profit version of diptrace might be not enough - you wack in two BGAs and it's game overmy point is that you should carefully consider all aspects before you choose. diptrace has limits on pins but no limits on size so it might be the choice for larger less dense boards, while eagle limits the size while not limiting the pins so it's better for higher density boards.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 07:17:39 pm
content: For a new user that only want to use it for hobby."Buy" the real Altium Designer 17orA software with no limits.Designspark PCB (easy) or Kicad (hard)

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2016, 07:02:48 am
content: Am I the only one using the Proteus (ISIS/ARES) suite?

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2016, 12:10:24 pm
content: Quote from: george.b on November 19, 2016, 07:02:48 amNope, myself and many others use it also. It is a great package although they now have DipTrace snapping at their heels.

author: Unordung
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 11:09:12 am
content: I found Eagle the easiest to pick up, but you soon switch to more powerful programs like Altium which can then lead to confusion. However given Eagle is free I highly recommend starting out there.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 01:10:48 pm
content: Sorry but Eagle isnotFREE!!!But sure there are a Licenses there you can use 80x100mm PCB in a But it only for Non Commercial

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 02:20:04 pm
content: Quote from: Bloch on November 20, 2016, 01:10:48 pmwhy the hell would someone need a FREE PCB design software in a commercial environment ? the PCBs itself are much more expensive than the software, so if you can't afford the ~1k cost of the software how will you pay for the PCBs and parts for your production run ? each business needs a startup investment and you should have enough included for the PCB software.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 02:21:45 pm
content: Easiest to learn is definitely DipTrace, especially if you're coming from Windows.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 02:41:53 pm
content: >why the hell would someone need a FREE PCB design software in a commercial environment ?Why are you asking me ?I just stated that Eagle is not FREEAnd why would ANYBODY use their FREE time to learn a PCB tool that only can use 100x80mm PCB space ??If it was the ONLY pcb program in the world. Then I think it would be a wice move. But there are now so many programs >>FREE<< that don't have a realy crippling reduced/limit built in.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 02:44:11 pm
content: >Easiest to learn is definitely DipTrace, especially if you're coming from Windows.That was harder/not so easy to learn in the other softwares ?

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 03:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: Bloch on November 20, 2016, 02:41:53 pm3 exclamation marks at the end of your statement about eagle being not free => one would expect you're complaining.and then stating "only for non-commercial" => one would assume you wanted it for commercial use.sorry if i misunderstood your statementsbut anyways... 80x100mm with 2 layers is enough for fairly complex project using SMT - does the job for many hobbyists.if someone needs more - there is a 160x100mm 6layers Make edition (~ 160Eur) for non-commercial use - that's more than enough for the most complex hobby projects (i'm using it personally). keep in mind the era of huge boards is over.. everything is highly integrated nowadaysand which ones are free with no limitations built in (except KiCAD) ? free/non commercial dip trace has a limit for pins - so it's good for bigger less dense boards but not for complex projects.and back to the price of PCBs.... if you can't afford the software then you'll probably not able to afford the PCBs either - that's statement is valid in any case (hobby, prototyping, commercial runs)... you can afford the free software and most likely you'll be able to afford the smaller and cheaper baords... but a big PCB will costs several hundred $$$.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 09:53:44 pm
content: >and which ones are free with no limitations built in (except KiCAD) ?1.As i have posted before Designspark have 14 layers.And i think it 1000 x 1000mm PCB space.2.Circutmaker is also more or les unlimited layerd + PCB space.3.FreePCB + gEDA +https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_EDA_software4. And maybe something like pcbweb or upverter but i haven't tried them.PCB are cheap even at my not so cheap shop570x530mm single for Kr. 375,00 ~ 53,57 $300x200mm Double Kr. 101,25 ~14,47 $>one would expect you're complainingI tell like it is. Not only the pretty side

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 02:09:17 pm
content: Quote from: Bloch on November 20, 2016, 09:53:44 pmthat price is very low... that would correspond with the price of panel only... without the cost of pre-production steps (check gerbers + make films).and if the the pricing is correct then post the details where and how to orderi think no-one on this forum will order from china anymore if you can provide 300x200 2layers for ~15$ in single piececheapest pcb fabs in china offer that for 18-25$ with minimum 5 boards to be ordered so you have to spend 100+ $

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 02:19:40 pm
content: My vote goes to Diptrace, and it's really not even close. Easiest to use software I've seen, even considering all it's little annoying quirks.

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 06:05:07 pm
content: >that price is very lowIt only for the PCB. For home making pcb.>a few boards for personal useTruth is that we still dont know theThe Doktor needsBut some of you know that ether that he can make do by 80x100mm Or that he has 300 to 500$ to put in to software . And that even before he begin his (new hobby) a few boards for personal use.Sorry I can't take it serious. Are you the same one that chanting about 6 or 7 digits multimeter and 4 channels 1GHz scobes ? that you have no need or dont know how to use ?

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 01:39:20 am
content: Quote from: Bloch on November 21, 2016, 06:05:07 pmwell, you talked about your not so cheap shop - did you mean raw material (fr4 copper clad) in a local shop ? if yes then it's really expensive... i'm buying A4 sized cuts for approx 1 to 1.70 Eur depending on laminate and copper thicknesno i'm not one of thosemy best meter is a 50000count (4+3/4 digit) my scopes are 100Mhz and i know how to use themand my statements about PCB software are valid- if you can't afford the software , then you can't afford the PCBs.- 80x100mm limit is enough for many hobby projects- 300 pins limit is enough for many projects as well- there is no point in desperately chasing a free PCB software because the limited/crippled ones (free versions of commercial ones) are suitable for hobby work.- switching to a different software later on is not that extremely difficult