What do I program an ATmega 0-series chip with? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:17:54 pm
content: So I need to get a programmer at work. I have an ICE which cot around 40 pounds, this now costs twice that under microchip. Are they going back to the bad old days of overpriced tools or are they trying to push an alternative which I'll never find because some numskull at microchip decided to reuse an existing name for a new product so looking for information on the new product is a waste of time as the results will be for material for the old products.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:27:07 pm
content: Interesting. Yet another programming interface from Micromel. So how many of the programming interfaces do they have now? Like 10 or even more?I remember a "PDI" interface or what that was, that used a 2 wires. But UPDI single wire does not ring a bell.(Tell them at work there are way better supported 8bit MCU options nowdays, than this Micromel garbage).//EDIT: Seems STK600 can program mega 0 series. But bajeezus... that STK600 board is yucky... Micromel (both of them) is an expert on making insanely over-complex overpriced programmers, with dysfunctional USB drivers (especially atmel).//ALso funny to note, how some vendors have almost completely stopped any development in the 8bit game (like STMicro), but some, like Micromel still tries pushing 8bit, with so much diversity and incompatibility across all of them, it is almost unreasonable to ever imagine using them into a product.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:45:06 pm
content: This one seems to support UPDI interface.https://www.microchip.com/webdoc/GUID-DDB0017E-84E3-4E77-AAE9-7AC4290E5E8B/index.html?GUID-9B349315-2842-4189-B88C-49F4E1055D7FConnection here:https://www.microchip.com/webdoc/GUID-DDB0017E-84E3-4E77-AAE9-7AC4290E5E8B/index.html?GUID-9B349315-2842-4189-B88C-49F4E1055D7FAt least this looks like a dedicated programmer/debugger.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 03:24:33 pm
content: ARM has taken a lot for sure but a decent 8 bit line will always be needed. The new mega 0 series is apparently a rehash of the Xmega with 5V support and them seem to have tried to make it a product line that will support upgrades in the future. I can do plenty with these chips without needing an ARM but I am sure that day will come too.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 03:46:21 pm
content: By a better support, I mean for example like that only single f*ing programmer/debugger is required for all product lines all across the vendor has. Or how does compatibility looks in between device in terms of pin compatibility, peripheral compatibility, what kind of good alternative software tools are available. (Micromel has almost none of this).Look how many programming/debug tools you need to support just few devices from Micromel. A whole imperial shit ton of them and they do cost money.I do not say that it is a must to use 32bits. I just say, there are 8bits with way better support of tools, that just work out of a box.I have used both Atmel and Microchip 8bit devices. Those Microchip ones are pure hell (PIC16 and 18F), I have quite liked AVRs from Atmel, but after spending few project with for example STM8, I don't want to ever turn back to those (now) Micromel devices.I've been also told, that using 8bit devices does only pay off if producing high enough volumes. And by high enough, I mean very high. 100ku and more.Take a AVR Mega 0 series, the ATmega3208 as an example: At 1ku, it costs over a $1 ($1.2, Mouser). You can get ARM devices for less than that, and even USB/CAN equipped ARM devices for the same price, with likely more peripherals and features.But I can't tell exactly, because the Micromel datasheet lists all as "up to"... they can shove their "up to" in their ass, if the can't provide clear list of what each device part number contains as a feature set.//EDIT: An by imperial shit ton of tools, I have ended up having STK500, AVR Dragon, AVR ISP mk II, plus a set of various chinese dongles. Yet it is not still enough to program all of their devices.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:36:28 pm
content: I am working on low volume projects and the demand for development speed has meant that the simpler device is better and 10 cents more won't hurt.So the Atmel ICE is still the only UPDI programmer ?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 05:01:55 pm
content: I'd not say only, but at least one, that looks like a universal programmer, not a yucky overpriced PCB full of not that useful stuff.Funny you talking about development speed, if getting even a correct programmer/debugger requires asking on forums, because vendor's documentation and support suck,

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 05:41:13 pm
content: Well for one I have not bothered to look into the matter myself as I'm not that experienced. Personally I'd just buy the ICE and be done with it but I was uncertain as to if they had a better option. This thread has not helped with that as all it's been about is your opinion on 8 bit micros!

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:22:04 pm
content: Your question was not stated much better anyway. It may just be my problem with English, but you already wrote you have the ICE. Then you commented on it's price and talked about alternatives, hence I have also pointed to an alternative, which is to stop using Micromel parts, if you don't like the price of their tools and their mess within product names.The only question I have seen is in the title,What do I program an ATmega 0-series chip with?And I think I have answered that quite clearly, that I have found STK600 plus that Micromel ICE could do it too.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 07:11:28 pm
content: I have an ATmega chip in my design and it stays there. What the hell makes you think that the answer to the question: what programmers are available for this chip? is: use a different chip? and no lack of English is not an excuse!

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 07:40:23 pm
content: The new programmers are pickit4 and MPLab Snap.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 07:42:46 pm
content: thank you

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:37:10 pm
content: DIY UPDI (Ardu based)https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/updi-programmer-software-arduino-compatible-avrdude/Bingo

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:40:17 pm
content: It's for work, they can bloody well pay the money!

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 12:11:52 am
content: For work, there is also the MPLAB ICD4 debugger (~$250)There's a comparison of SNAP vs PICkit here:http://microchipdeveloper.com/snap:versus-pk4I'm not sure whether there's anything similar for ICD vs xxx.Be aware that PICKit4 comes without and cables for connecting it to DUTs. (at least, it didn't when I bought mine. Although that WAS a "sale.") There's a separate cable adapter set (https://www.microchipdirect.com/product/search/all/AC102015)This link should have all three programmers, unless it's one of those "generated user-specific links" that expires...https://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/listing/624f1d28-6b2d-4b96-b39f-637d6c789c6a

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 07:38:54 am
content: I think I'll get them to buy the ICE as it is what i know, later I'll look at the pickit 4, having a backup programmer is not a bad thing.