Starter work bench. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2012, 07:18:54 pm
content: So I've been fiddling with electronics (ardunio, home automation, a tiny bit of robotics) for a while and have been getting by ok with a 15 dollar multimeter and a radio shack 25 watt soldering iron.I've recently decided to get some better equipment I have a fixed budget at 750 USD (735 AUD, 471 GBP) . I don't want to spend a bunch of time hunting around for used stuff and I would also really like to have at least a basic manufacturers warranty for most of my equipment so new is preferred. You can assume I already have a decent bench and all the requisite tools that cost under 20 USD (19 AUD, 12 GBP).What would be a good set of equipment for a beginner? Here is an example list I cooked up all the prices are from amazon in USD and include shipping.Magnifier Workbench Lamp $49.00Mastech HY1803D VARIABLE DC POWER SUPPLY $79.88Amprobe 37XR-A $119.82Rigol DS1052E 50MHz DSO $405.00Hakko Soldering Station, FX-888 $80.72TOTAL: $734.42I would be very interested in others opinions on if I should spend more on a multimeter and not bother with an o-scope or that sort of thing.

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2012, 07:35:04 pm
content: Nice list you have there and it looks like a good start. The Rigol 1052E is only 50 MHz and for almost the same price you can get the Rigol 1102E which is 100 MHz If you are in the States you can get the Rigol 1102E for 399.00 USD from Saelig which includes tax, shipping, and they also include a free storage bag for the scope.Edited for spelling/grammar

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 03:59:54 am
content: So is it worth spending 80$ on a cheap power supply would I be better off putting that toward a better meter or scope?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 07:08:31 am
content: you need a power supply when you do electronicsbut you can easily build your own.there are lots of schematics all around to make a simple to a sophisticated one.I started with a basic 3v 4v5 6v 7v5 9v elc supply 30 years ago ...now I have an hameg 7042 ...not the same

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 09:17:00 am
content: Building a power supply is an excellent project, but i would buy your first one even if it's cheap, not too cheap though ( $80 is fine)That way, when you have circuit issues while using your DIY power supply you have a proper psu to test against.Makes it real easy to check if an issue is with your powersupply or your circuitA few things missing from your list (you may already have them)- A reel of 0.3-0.5mm Solder- A pair of wire cutters- A spring loaded desoldering tool- Helping hands

author: JuiceKing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 08:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: perfect_disturbance on September 05, 2012, 07:18:54 pmYou could consider saving $130 by skipping the lamp and the soldering station and instead using breadboard to build temporary projects. A simple desk lamp will do--I'm very happy with one from IKEA. Soldered projects in nice enclosures are like trophies, and I'm proud of them, but they take 10x the time to build over a breadboard projects. Plus, you can re-use components and wires if you breadboard. I loaded up on common resistors and capacitors from some kits from "Joe Knows Electronics" and "Elenco" and have found this to be money very well spent. It's great to have all the values you need and the kits take up almost no space--you don't need a giant wall of drawers to store them all.I like the Rigol scope but also appreciate the view from an analog scope. The 50Mhz version of the Rigol is fine. You should be able to pick up a perfectly good 100-300Mhz analog scope for $100-200 and take your time to look for a nice one at a good price. Maybe free, but don't forget that you'll need probes to go with it. The Rigol is much better for slow signals and has useful, if somewhat crude, built-in measurements that are incredibly handy.It won't be long before you'll want a second DMM... You might be better off getting two $50 DMMs than one $100. Dave had several videos on this topic so you can see for yourself.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2012, 12:15:08 am
content: Whilst the 37XR-A does have an interesting feature set (Inductance, dB etc), it's really not all that impressive as a meter. It's not terrible, but you can have a meter that might be twice as accurate as the 37XR-A for 20% less. The Indutance measurements are guaranteed within 5%..which is reasonably accurate but depending on the stuff you are doing, that may not be sufficient.All I'm saying is...It might make more sense to get a very and accurate meter that does current, voltage, resistance, & capacitance, and then worry about getting a proper inductance meter later. You probably won't find yourself using the inductance feature much at all, nor the dBmW meter.My main meter is an Amprobe-AM270. It costs around $90. It beats the 37XR-A in accuracy on every count except for inductance and dBm (obviously). It's also (I think), a much better built meter judging by the teardown Dave did, and comparing it to the teardown I did.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/teardown-amprobe-am-270-digital-multimeter/The construction is very good. It has blast proteciton, improved fuses and input protection. Overall, well done internally. I like the meter. I recommend it a lot.I'm trying to get my hands on one of Amprobes new AM-5xx series meters. Hopefully a teardown of one of those if I can get one.

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 02:47:11 am
content: Thanks for the tip I didn't realize the 270 was more accurate than the 37.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 10:30:29 pm
content: Quite a bit more actually. The AM-250 is also a good meter if you don't want to spend that much. But 270 does have some very nice features that you might actually use.

author: glee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 12:09:26 am
content: I'm also setting up. What would be the next priority after fulfilling this list? A function generator?

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 12:21:50 am
content: I would recommend at a minimum 2 multimeters.You will probably find yourself wanting to measure power or a few things simulaneously in a circuit. A good electronics bench should have 4 multimeters. They don't have to be $200 meters, but perhaps 2 nice ones and 2 mid-range ones...or whatever.Function generator is of course nice. I wouldn't go spending millions on one though. Depends on what you plan on doing really. I know that sounds like a BS answer, but its the truth...if you plan on doing more digital stuff like microcontrollers and stuff, you might not need a super awesome function generator.Ahh there's big long list. You should REALLY watch Dave's video on it:You're going to want good hand tools in addition. A good set of Huron side cutters. Wire strippers of your choice. Tweezers for those small parts! Solder! Solderwick! Desoldering iron (get a cheap one).Digital calipers. I find myself using them a lot, especially when I have to replace a part. Screw drivers. Security bit set. You'll be surprised the weird screws a lot of electronics use. A good breadboard is a must. Panavise jr. to hold your stuff while you are working on it.And then consider things like better lighting. You'll be surprised how bad lighting deteriorates your work ethic. Also might want to consider a lab grade ESD mat.Phew theres a lot.

author: glee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 01:35:56 am
content: wow. Thanks for the detailed response.I have one nice MM and one $15 job. I appreciated the commentary about the Amprobe choices and will likely follow up on the 270. Also intrigued by Dave's favouritism of the Extech 330. Maybe eventually one of each.I take your point about not spending millions (not that there are millions to spend). I don't really know what I want. The aim is to learn enough to identify directions of further interest while remaining within budget. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing working out priorities, so advice is welcome.I watched dave's setup video a couple of months back and used that as a rough guide. Probably it's time to revisit. Thanks for the reminder.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 02:33:13 am
content: You can watch his $50 shootout:Unfortunately it is about 2 years old. The information about the meters is still extremely relevant. However, there are a few newer models out there that I think would easily win over the ones in these videos. For example, Amprobe has been putting out some very good quality meters as of the late. Extech has updated their lineup a few times since also. There are also some good ones from Uni-T and even something like the Fluke 17B which Dave just toredown. Lots of other options other than what is in the video.However, it is good insight on what to find in a good multimeter.I'd probably not use the $15 DMM with anything you actually care about. Now, a $15 DMM does have its rightful purpose, but as being a good electronics multimeter, not so much.You can definitely scroll through the products/review section and see a ton of multimeter reviews and teardowns to give you a glimpse.Yeah, if you don't know what its for or what to do with it, you probably don't need it! Though, it's hard to know if you need one if you don't have one! Definitely chicken and the egg.

author: Jimmy the Squid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 02:55:02 am
content: Maybe it goes without saying, but you're going to want a multi-drawer storage bin (probably two - I filled my first one pretty dang quick.) Also, I didn't see an ESD safe table mat mentioned yet. Not sure if it's overkill or not, but they're nice to have around. Also, a spudger or two will come in really handy.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 03:01:23 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on September 11, 2012, 12:21:50 amYep and yep. If you plan on opening any recent device, the spudger helps to crack open those locking tabs. Drawers. Yes of course.

author: glee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 04:03:43 am
content: Great suggestions, thanks. Like the OP I have a reasonable complement of small hand tools but ESD mat and a spudger (I had to look that up :-) sound like helpful things to have around.I wonder if you also have opinions about power supplies. I originally bought a (cheap!) power supply, which turned out to be somebody's kit construction - not only non-working but providing a juicy 120 volts AC between ground and active terminals. Glad I had the presence of mind to check!Anyway, now looking for a not-so-cheap power supply. I gather I don't need anything too serious. I can buy Chinese re-branded supplies locally but I noticed on eBay that there are some older (1980s) TTi models from their precision linear range for about half the price. Perils of eBay buying aside, are there reasons why one would not want to buy an older power supply simply because it was old?TIA

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 05:22:29 am
content: Quote from: glee on September 11, 2012, 04:03:43 amNone IMHO, especially if it is a working unit (give it a good cleaning inside and out, and if they need it, replace the caps <i.e. bulging or leaking due to age>). Those older units tend to be built like tanks.If it's a broken unit, they're usually easy to get working again if you're willing/able.

author: glee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 12:46:54 pm
content: yeah , maybe i'm crazy but that sounds appealing to me :-)

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 01:31:51 pm
content: Really old stuff tends to have little in the way of safety features.Mains voltages are just routed around the case with bare wire on solder terminals.That's probably the main issue i would worry about with the really old gear.This is the kinda thing i mean

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 03:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on September 11, 2012, 01:31:51 pmlovely but if you dont touch them and they arent shorted to chassis or each other will work as designedohh of course thats not a kid toy

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 03:26:33 pm
content: But we have to protect the wee children!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 06:56:14 pm
content: Maybe if you don't need that old of a tankSeems to work fine even after 33 years. HmmGoes to 32V @ 4.5amps across both channels ( even though it's quoted at 30V @ 3amps ) but sadly you won't see these of kind of cheaper ones that are built well too much these daysHow about a UT61E ? not so safe it might be but with monkeh's mods it certainly is safe.Well ... meet ma meters

author: glee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 09:27:54 pm
content: Ha, @Psi that certainly is a classic piece of kit!Was this item ever actually available for commercial sale? What sort of vintage are we talking?@T4P, as you say, low end units don't have the quality they once did. If someone around here has a schematic for a time machine ....

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 11:27:52 pm
content: I just grabbed that pic from google image search, its not one of my pieces of kit.But that's how old gear was made before PCB's were invented.However, that one above is a pretty extreme messy example. The better ones are neater with bundled wires twisted together with string.Also note that with valve gear the working voltage running around inside is often higher than the mains voltage.ie 230v maybe stepped up to 400V or higher. This then gets switched and processed by all the valves and then goes into another transformer to step it down to a low voltage for the devices output.Here's a neater example of the old construction style.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2012, 12:48:58 pm
content: I set up a bench for someone who didn't have a lot to spend, it was mostly used equipment except the soldering station, here is what it consisted of:Aoyue 937 soldering station - $65BK Precision 60Mhz analog scope - $100 (calibrated this year by NASA of all places, amazing what they get rid of)Fluke 177 meter - $80Various tools like pliers, strippers, etc - $60Bus pirate - $25Elenco 580 power supply - $30The power supply was purposely bought as a used item that was listed as broken. The reason I did this is that I know what those supplies contain on the inside. The parts are very generic , all available everywhere, and there is ample room in the case to make your own modifications. The stock unit outputs +12,-12V,+5v and variable 2-20VDC and it does this using a transformer with multiple secondaries so there isn't a lot of loss in getting something like the +5V as there would be if regulating the +12V down to +5v like some supplies. The regulation is done using LM723 chips and 2n3055 pass transistors, like I said, common stuff. I remove the analog panel meters, they are junk on this model, and replace with digital ones. Add a rotary encoder with micro controller and some current control and I have a very durable supply for under $50-60 total.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2012, 06:15:12 pm
content: Quote from: glee on September 11, 2012, 09:27:54 pmSeems like time has turned cheap decent stuff into plain cheap shit. But i don't really think this was as cheap as today ... 120bucks for the ones without a broken 5V (Easy to mend that)Nobody i know(not even the people i know who lived through the 'cheap' but good lodestar era) knew about the price, i guess after inflation and gradual fall it should be umm ... 300bucks? Wow. Nah, that's a huge transformer we're dealing with. So how to get rid of the rust ... this thing has seen better days i'm sure of that but it appears to have been dropped at least once

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2012, 05:01:29 pm
content: What do people think in general about the Agilent u8001a for a power supply?http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-34530.783963.00&cc=US&lc=eng

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2012, 06:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: perfect_disturbance on September 18, 2012, 05:01:29 pmIt's an good PSU, if you don't mind that it has a fan. For fanless operation (maximum lifetime) the E3600 series is better and is more "silent"This is an switching PSU i think

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2012, 08:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: perfect_disturbance on September 18, 2012, 05:01:29 pmOne thing I noticed is that it has a 1 hour warm up time. Does that mean you have to turn it on 1 hour before you want to use it?

author: Amarbir[Lynx-India]
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2012, 08:37:54 pm
content: Well,Me too would suggest you can check multimeters onwww.ebay.com.sometimes when the amercians sleepyou can get a bargain lol .If you are on the other side of the globe like me in india it gets easy hee hee ,They sleep we are up ,when they are up we have our computers sniping the bids haa haa .Just see what kinda stuff you can buy off the same place ,Here have a look what i got last three days man1 : Protek B4000 - >http://www.ebay.com/itm/290771895225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l26492 : Agilent U1241A - >http://www.ebay.com/itm/120986067847?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l26493 : AEMC Mx55 - >http://www.ebay.com/itm/280963152622?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649Well are these not beauties ? .