Scopes on ebay -- questionable - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 08:06:22 pm
content: Don't know much about Tenma but two knobs look to have had a severe impact, one knob appears cracked. Now I wonder what happened to the other end of the knobs inside the scope. Also the case is askew. Looks like this scope was dropped.The seller doesn't have the title right. i.e. ">60MHz"eBay auction: #261380949658I saw another scope that looked cosmetically fine and the seller took some pictures, but only took one picture of the rear and the picture was limited to a closeup of the center portion of the rear. But in another picture taken from the right a portion of the back left could be seen and it looked like someone wrote Bad! with a sharpie. But of course the ad said "don't know how to test, no power cord"(hit post instead of preview)There are a lot of scopes available and I'm in no hurry. I guess my big decision is to decide on a new scope or go for an old one. It seems that there are speculators buying up scopes so I may just go with a new one and avoid the auction hassles.Does anyone know if there is a "season" for scopes? i.e. do companies clear out stock or surplus at certain times of the year?Do scope makers release products at a certain time?

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 09:02:10 pm
content: QuoteWouldn't touch that with a barge-pole. Certainly not for $70.QuoteDepends on your budget and what you want to do with it.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 10:12:35 pm
content: Your "to buy or not to buy" questions have been covered many times on these forums.I would not buy that specific scope though unless you are out of options.When your shopping at the cheap end of the market you are of course going to find the broken ones.So unless you're willing to learn "repairing oscilloscopes" on your first outing avoid them.Words like "works fine" or "fully operational" are what you're looking to get in writing as well as photos of the scope powered up.When you see adverts like "powers up" or "as is" that means take your chances.As you may have guessed broken and missing knobs can be bad news.If you're doing audio work you may prefer a fully analog scope.While you're waiting for some bargains is look for a brand you like. Dig on the net for some old catalogs, user and service manuals.If the scope breaks down you have to consider how easy you can repair it. So getting a common brand made as late as possible before the digital change over helps.That is where the catalogs come in handy you can see exact when they started to change over.Lets face it if you get a good analog scope to start with, you may never need another.Otherwise if you have no idea and just want to play around and have $300 or so to put towards a digital scope buy something like a new Rigol DSO.http://www.tequipment.netmay do a special price foreevblog membersThis article also covers many considerations when buying a scope and digital vs analog.http://www.picotech.com/applications/oscilloscope_tutorial.html

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2014, 11:28:06 am
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on January 24, 2014, 08:06:22 pmooh, that looks nasty!There must be better out there. Try refining your search in ebay to collection only local auctions. This also gives you the opportunity to do some basic testing when you go pickup. I am sure you should be able to pickup a decent analog scope for reasonable money. I would also look for private sales rather than those who buy up and resell as a business.PS: your username:

author: AmmoJammo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2014, 11:35:02 am
content: Quote"wear and tear" = dropped off the table

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2014, 11:48:31 am
content: I would add that if buying used equipment, access to manuals, schematics etc is important. I have had a good run with HP/Agilent gear, as a good proportion of the manuals can be found on the Agilent website. You do pay a bit of a premium but it is often nice gear even if 20yrs old.I have bought most of my stuff off ebay, I never would buy "I don't know how to test" unless give-away price.Ask for more photos if unsure. Esp if the device can self-test!Input voltages, manuals, connectors (I got stuck with a APC7!) are just some of the traps.Used-line.com gives a bit of an indication of the current market value and other sources of gear.I have on one occasion phoned the "local" equipment supplier, who had some good gear, traded in recently.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 01:31:08 am
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on January 24, 2014, 09:02:10 pmIt's been sold at "best offer". Parts or maybe refurbish candidate.QuoteMy intent is to learn first hand.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:09:26 am
content: Quote from: Shock on January 24, 2014, 10:12:35 pmWas just pointing out an "interesting" scope and had no intention of buying it.QuoteThe sellers get quite creative on ebay, there's definitely an ebay jargon that's emerged.QuoteYeah, there's lots of data about scopes out there so it's easy to get informed.QuoteWith all the interesting features on the digital scopes it might be hard to resist for too much longer.QuoteGood link.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:14:42 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on January 27, 2014, 11:28:06 amYeah after doing some searching on ebay I decided to look at other options.QuoteForgive the missing R. in front.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:19:20 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on January 27, 2014, 11:48:31 amYeah, tons of info out there for the big brands.QuoteSome of the sellers just don't know what they've got and that can be a curse or a blessing for a buyer.QuoteWill look at that.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:24:07 am
content: Quote from: AmmoJammo on January 27, 2014, 11:35:02 amOr much worse. I saw one that had a cover folded on top and the cover had clear water marks on it with what looked like mud.Normal wear and tear**for a submariner

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:28:05 am
content: I've decided on a plan. I'm going to buy something cheap, learn from it and in a year or two get a digital scope. The digital scope market is dynamic right now and I don't think the prices will change but the quality should get better. I've done the same with a DMM recently.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 04:23:16 am
content: One other question for you all. Do the scope probes all end up in the Land Of The Single Sock*?I notice that most of the scopes for sale do not include probes. Do they wear out? Are they highly collectible?*that mythical place where one sock from a pair goes for eternity

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 06:08:47 am
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on January 28, 2014, 04:23:16 amProbes are consumables. Good ones are expensive consumables. They do break. And if they aren't broken now people rather like to keep them as spares or use them with their next oscilloscope.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 08:53:03 am
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on January 28, 2014, 04:23:16 amThe other problem is that unless they are expensive ones, when a company goes bankrupt the big assets are sold off and end up for sale, but odd proves just go on the scrap cable pile. Same with RF test cables and those are £100 new for anything reasonable.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 11:16:59 am
content: QuoteNot surprising as a good pair of high-bandwidth, branded 'scope probes can be worth a similar amount to the 2nd hand value of the 'scope to which they are attached.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 05:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on January 28, 2014, 08:53:03 amSo the pile of "scrap" cables might be more valuable then the pallet of scopes.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 05:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on January 28, 2014, 06:08:47 amAnd the adage must apply here too, i.e. "Can't have too many scope probes."

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 05:29:10 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on January 28, 2014, 11:16:59 amYeah I discovered that recently. Those branded probes cost a lot more.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 06:32:10 pm
content: Quote from: VK5RC on January 27, 2014, 11:48:31 amYou must be kidding. Equipment traders mostly try to sell bricks as gold bars. Better look at sold listings on Ebay. That way you see for what price a piece of equipment gets sold. Usually this is 3 times lower than the price of an equipment traders. Ofcourse there are always fools and people not spending their own money. The nice thing about Ebay is that if you have some patience something turns up for the right price.Quote from: GiskardReventlov on January 28, 2014, 04:23:16 amDo you buy used shoes or used underwear? I guess not so you don't buy used probes. People don't sell their good probes so whatever gets sold is useless junk. Just get new probes. They aren't expensive.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 07:45:10 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 28, 2014, 06:32:10 pmSo true, so true. Patience is the key to good deals on ebay, usually.*QuoteDoes someone sell used underwear? That's worse I'd say.I have bought used boots does that count? Go to a shoe repair store sometime, they have shoes/boots that got repaired and never got picked up. Very good deals. Let them air out and spray some stuff inside. The crap that redwing sells now have planned obsolence in the soles.I kid you not! The soles on my redwing boots disintegrated. They don't replace them either! Pure crap. Marketed as top notch boots too. Bad joke.But back to probes, some people do sell their good probes, but I am going to buy a new set.Another question comes to mind, how do I test a scope probe if I did buy a used probe?*Hint to all ebayers: people still can't spell oscilloscope, try oscilliscope and oscillascope

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 08:54:24 pm
content: I was looking for the manual for a DMM I bought (BK 2709b) and on their site I found a link to an exchange program.https://www.bkprecision.com/promotions/exchange-program.htmlUntil Dave's multimeter shootout I'd never heard of BK. It seems the exchange will accept about anything I type in there and give an $224.75 discount. This looks like a really nice scope. Are they rebranded or do they make their own? That's a decent price for a 100MHz scope.Model# 2542B (edit)Digital Storage Oscilloscopes100 MHz, 1 GSa/s Digital Storage OscilloscopeThis model has a 3 year warranty from original date of purchase.MSRP: $899.00Upgrade Price: $674.25Total Savings: -$224.75Instrument Returning to B&K (edit) MICRONTA 22-203AShipping Please, contact us via email or phone for shipping pricing.Total Charges $674.25

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 11:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on January 28, 2014, 07:45:10 pmSome underwear costs hundreds of US$ or €QuoteThat is hard to do. The problem is that probes tend to get bad ground connections and interruptions in the cable. Both are very annoying because they screw up your reading. It's like the tip of the probe isn't making good contact. By wiggling it a bit it seems the contact gets better but in reality the problem isn't in the tip at all. It is better to have confidence your probes are OK and one way to do that is to buy new ones. Testec has very affordable probes.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 05:36:17 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 28, 2014, 11:38:19 pmWell as a novice it woud be good to be able to at least have something to say a probe is good or bad. Just because a probe is new doesn't make it magically good. If I buy a pair of probes for $10 how much testing did they get? Is the manufacturing process so good that bad probes are a rarity? I would guess that production line testing is minimal and maybe minimal testing's all that's needed. So the question becomes how do they test probes during manufacturing?

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 11:53:14 pm
content: Maybe there's some ebay seller trick going on here, but this scope has been listed for almost 3 years based on the dates of the offers that have been made.http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-2215A-AS-IS-/330508642441I am not considering it, just something I saw.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 05:13:13 am
content: It's just another seller thinking he is sitting on gold. In reality the value of the equipment decreases rapidly. Just ignore; it's their loss because there is always another seller with more sense.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 11:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 01, 2014, 05:13:13 amFunny, they do seem to think that it's gold. I see so many ridiculous prices for old scopes (and lots of other things). With these scopes it seems that the sellers don't know that the price for a new scope is really low compared to past scope prices. I would not want to be sitting on an inventory of old scopes right now. So not only are most new scope buyers looking at the low-priced scopes but old scopes that develop problems are being replaced instead of repaired.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 11:49:54 pm
content: QuoteHere's an even bigger laughhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181242144950?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649- £600 for an empty box.I might consider £60 for BOTH but that's only if they had all the Bournes encoders and not just a mocked-up front panel. Ideally I'd want the CRT and associated electronics to be present as well.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 05:10:02 pm
content: It's been gutted? I'm not sure what the description means. It's a display model or something? Did it "come from a working environment" though? That's what we want to know! And I wonder if they "do not have the equipment or knowledge to test it".

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 06:08:42 pm
content: QuoteI don't know - there's a plate on the back which says:DISPLAY UNITPart No. JL/A0-50030SERIAL No. 002JOYCE LOEBL LTDGiven the 002 serial number and the fact that the vendor has two for sale I suspect the other one is "Serial No. 001".There's also a Lecroy serial number/model number so whether it was a 'scope that got gutted or a custom built job I have no idea.There's no mains supply. Thereisa 36 way D connector on the back so it's possible the front panel and display work and are connected to that. In the original 'scope power for the CRT is supplied on the ribbon cable which connects to the CPU board so it's feasible that power could be supplied via the D connector.Perhaps they were used for a remote display to another 'scope which was permanently plumbed in somewhere.What I do know is that £600 would be a fair price for a 9384ALifit were a complete 'scope, for just the case front panel and maybe CRT and driver board it's a joke.

author: AllanMN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2014, 06:16:46 pm
content: I have some somewhat painful experience with the "cheap scope on ebay" .... (myth)?I'd say be REAL careful and assume the worse if it's in the popular category of "untested, as-is, I have no idea what this is". Bid real low ($.50/MHz) and perhaps losses will be worth the gains in the long run. Yes, you'll have to learn repair.Stuff that's clearly, demonstratively fully functioning (if uncalibrated, out of cal, just ballpark accurate), is expensive and almost rare. Most is ..uh, humorously high priced (gallows humor perhaps). Lots of crazy.If you have a serious interest in repair it might be ok. Local is probably better. Hamfests. Else, I'd say buy new or completely guaranteed (in which case you need to be able to quickly verify performance).As I said, it's been a painful experience.Allan

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2014, 08:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on February 11, 2014, 06:08:42 pmClearly one of those items that only someone that knows exactly what they're doing would buy.Not an oscilloscope but interesting. Make sure and have a look at the picture of the back panel. My first thought was how many G's was this unit designed to withstand. That had to be dropped pretty hard, also note the scrape to the metal in the middle picture.eBay auction: #301095173250But at least the seller has good pictures of the outside. But we don't know if it powers on as the first picture is a stock photo. I would not power it on until I took it apart if I owned that.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2014, 09:06:10 pm
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on February 13, 2014, 08:11:09 pmThat looks like it's just taken a knock to the rear corner. Seller is saying it's fully working and with a 30 day right of return. I do think it's too expensive unless you really need that particular model.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2014, 09:06:45 pm
content: QuoteOuchNotquiteas bad as the stuff from acertain ebay sellerwho's stuff often looks like it's been through a war zone backwards and then blown up for good measure.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2014, 10:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on February 13, 2014, 09:06:10 pmOn the left it's bent inward and that's probably the point of impact, on the right there are broken parts. I would guess these are built solidly, so I would also bet that was a severe blow. I'm going to pass on this. It seems that very few sellers have reasonable prices. But there seems to be no shortage of buyers.If I was a broker of elec. equipment I'd want to sell everything but I get the feeling, by the pricing that some don't want to move their stuff. I decide what I'm willing to pay, make the bid or the offer, and go from there.If it works they could show it instead of a stock photo.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2014, 01:10:35 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on February 13, 2014, 09:06:45 pmThey want top dollar as well (don't even bother to make an offer). Definitely not Ikea pricing as their background would suggest.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2014, 01:33:14 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on February 13, 2014, 09:06:45 pmAmusingly enough that is precisely where I got my 3478A for $145 shipped. (*) I did go over the pictures quite a few times to try and make sure that 1) it looked like shit so noone else would bid and 2) it was only cosmetic. After a round of IPA it looked in tip-top shape again.But on the whole, yeah, stuff from that seller tend to be too expensive and in poor condition.*) Yeah yeah, you got 3 units for $50 shipped, you generalized non-named american surplus hippie. Doesn't do me any good over here in Europe, now does it?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2014, 01:56:49 pm
content: I've just got a HP 54542A working, four channel 500MHz, 2GS/s with FFT and two genuine 10441A probes (though missing clips and only one has a ground lead)It's in good condition, £600 +VAT and shipping

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2014, 11:50:23 pm
content: @KJDS, I don't know about the scope, sounds like you got a deal since you're bragging!I do know that probes for 500MHz scopes are expensive.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2014, 05:50:53 pm
content: I think KJDS means he has one for sale.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2014, 06:01:02 pm
content: QuoteHe does.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2014, 06:32:54 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on February 16, 2014, 06:01:02 pmI do

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2014, 11:32:52 pm
content: So he does!Funny, I read that as he got one.