Video camera system for viewing PCBs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: mpmapi66
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 02, 2014, 11:24:35 pm
content: Hi,I'd like to know which kind of camera and lens I have to use to have a real time video of a PCB in a monitor with a good zoom.Thanks

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 07:59:07 am
content: alternative:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-590-diyinhk-usb-soldering-microscope-review-tagarno-fhd-zip/msg455028/#msg455028Even cheaper alternative:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modifying-shitty-usb-microscopes/that is if you want to do it yourself. otherwisethe one on the video linked above (not the Tagarno) but the modified Microsoft HD webcam:http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/11-usb-microscope-1080p-for-smt-soldering(for some reason the https linked in the video doesn't take you there)

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 08:24:47 am
content: I am looking for the same thing but it should NOT be a USB camera since you need a computer and since I want to use two camera's simultaneously for a manual pick and place head I am looking for CCTV camera's which also come in very small modules.Unfortunately the CCTV cameras all measure their lenses in mm and the offered versions are 99% wideangle while I am looking for a 4x optical zoom to see the smd components. So if anyone reading this topic has knowledge of such camera's with an extra lens or correctionlens to get the zoom please let me know.For the TS I would recommend not to use USB anyway since you need an extra computer with boot-time OS misery and it takes up place and standard monitors can also handle analogue video real time, uptime in seconds. You could take a standard videocam with zoomlens if size does not matter and it would have much better sensor and optics then those USB cams.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 09:47:26 am
content: I have been tempted by these cameras but I already use a document camera so I cannot justify the purchase at the moment. A VGA output camera that has CVBS abd USB capability would be pretty useful though. The lens detailed in these auction is for PCB inspection. You could easily spend the asking prices on a lab grade close up telescope lens alone.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-HD-Digital-Microscope-Camera-VGA-AV-Video-Industrial-Lab-Zoom-C-mount-Lens-/310804631448?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item485d664f98http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-HD-Industrial-Microscope-VGA-USB-Camera-C-mount-Lens-LED-Light-Stand-/310796555638?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item485ceb1576http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-HD-Digital-C-mount-Microscope-VGA-Camera-Industrial-Lab-IR-Remote-/141252773471?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item20e352465fhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3in1-HD-Industry-Microscope-Camera-VGA-CVBS-AV-TV-USB-Output-C-mount-Lens-Stand-/121203569627?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item1c384bb3dbhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2-0MP-HD-C-mount-Microscope-Camera-VGA-Output-Industrial-Lab-UK-/310958390245?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item4866907be5http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-HD-Digital-Microscope-Camera-VGA-USB-AV-Video-Output-Industrial-PCB-UK-/141101148231?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item20da48a847http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-Industry-Lab-Microscope-Camera-VGA-AV-TV-Output-C-mount-Lens-LED-Light-/121241262356?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item1c3a8ad914http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-VGA-Microscope-Camera-Stand-Zoom-C-mount-Lens-Adjustable-Led-Light-UK-/121342433867?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item1c40929a4bhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0MP-Microscope-VGA-USB-Camera-C-mount-Lens-Industrial-Lab-Dual-arm-Table-Stand-/141215473420?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item20e1191f0c

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 09:58:44 am
content: Just this lens attached to a stand and a CCTV camera would be a good start with not too much financial outlayI am tempted !http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8X-100X-Zoom-C-mount-Lens-Industry-Microscope-Document-Camera-55mm-290mm-/310781032908?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Equipment_ET&hash=item485bfe39cc

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 10:13:51 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on June 03, 2014, 09:47:26 amThere seems to be little distance between the huge lens and the PCB , for inspection it would not be a problem for mounting a bit of a problem but for reworking with soldering iron a huge problem.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 10:29:33 am
content: That is why I use a Sony analogue document camera for reworkDocument cameras have around 40cm of disyance between the platen and the camera lens. AS decent optical zoom is used to zoom in on the PCB. If you stick with an analogue type (old school so cheap) you avoid the annoying image delay that can occur with some of the digital document cameras. I went through a phase of buying such cameras (also known as video presenters) and I was pleased with the high performance of both the digital and analogue types. My preference is the SONT but the ELMO models are very sophisticated digital types with built in LCD display and recording/playback functions.The other good news was that I was buying these document cameras at very cheap prices because they are a bit of a specialist educational establishment item. I have around 20 of them sitting around in various storage holes ! I bought a whole box load (10) of brand new analogue FlexiCams for GBP10 each on one occasion. They are basically a quality colour CCTV camera fitted with a special C mount close-up lens and mounted on a flexible goose-neck stand. They were designed for use in school science labs and have a great working distance focus but you zoom in by moving the camera closer to the target so are not to useful for rework applications.There is plenty of useful camera technology out there at cheap prices if you take a look

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 10:36:45 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on June 03, 2014, 10:29:33 amIndeed and I am looking for them only problem is for my manual pick and place head the camera's should be tiny, something like these would be nice but then with a zoom of around 2 - 4xhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Waterproof-Effio-700TVL-Mini-Pen-CCTV-Camera-3-6mm-lens-2-year-guarantee-/111348341964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ece0dccc

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 11:07:22 am
content: This company have just approached me for a review:http://www.ash-vision.com/Like the Tagarno, but with inbuilt measurement that looks really nice.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 11:18:27 am
content: @ Kjelt,You have kind of answered your own question hereBullet cams with analogue outputs are very cheap and available these days. I have several that have a removable front section to enable the fitting of different lenses. Most use a standard M12 fine thread lens. I even have 'sugar cube' cameras that are 10mm x 10mm with an M12 lens thread and composite video out. All very common these days.You appear to be stuck on lens selection. Understandable as lens field of view is dependant upon the lens plus the CCD / CMOS imager die dimensions. Common sizes of imager IC are 1/4", 1/3" and 1/2". The lens needs to illuminate the imager IC correctly but most PCB cameras are using 1/3" or 1/4" chips these days. There are even smaller imager chips in borescopes etc but lets keep it simple.Suppliers of the M12 mount lenses are plentiful on e*ay and the lenses are very reasonably priced. I actually bough a 'selection set' of lenses so that I had all common sizes for experimentation. I think it cost me around $15 for 8 lenses ! The lenses are, as you state, described in terms of xxmm. Whilst this may be confusing, many on line retailers provide the field of view detail. Take a look below:http://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/imaging_video_equipment/video_cameras_accessories/board_camerasMagnification is all about the distance from the target and the desired FOV. The M12 lenses are not normally close focus but there may be enough adjustment in the lens to provide what you need. Some have longer threaded sections than others. You can always extend the lens mount anyway.Varicocal lenses with a Zoom function are available in the M12 mount as well but they tend to be more bulky. They are still very cheap though.I think you will need to do some Googling on PCB cameras , M12 mount lenses and then experiment with some cheap parts to see what suits your needs. Your greatest challenges will be close focus adjustment and correct illumination of the subject so as to provide a noise free image whilst avoiding glare reflections from the targets shiny surfaces. Diffused variable intensity light sources like those used on microscopes is recommended. Happy experimentation

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 11:30:25 am
content: @Dave,Those look nice bits of kit !I have a handheld magnifier very similar to the unit shown on the site...it sis my most often used electronic magnifier and I wouldn't be without it. My eyes are fading now that I am in my 40's so such aids become essential when reading tiny laser etched SMD parts. The down side is that my unit originally cost around GBP400 (US$600+)I was lucky and found it in a charity shop for GBP50 new and unusedIn my life there is definitely a need for vision enhancement even though I am just aging at the normal rate with the old eyes getting longer sighted as a result. I use a genuine DA-4 opti-visor when soldering now and that has also been a godsend.Whilst I like dedicated PCB inspection products, they are sadly often very expensive for the non commercial buyer. This is why I investigated the various document cameras (both large and small) on the used market place. Good cameras and lenses are not that hard to find but you need a decent mount and lighting stage for PCB work as you will know. Ergonomics is King.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 11:59:53 am
content: @Aurora: thanks, did not know about that M12 spec, I am not so into the optical domain so was indeed kind of stuck with matching lens for a camera. You're right for those prices I can experiment. Too bad the shipping times for China will make the experimentation slow.@Dave: looks nice and promising, looking forward for a review. Is the price for the "ash" (much) lower than the Tagarno or are they in the same range?Edit: already found it, unfortunately it's even more expensiveUnit Price: $5,745.00 (ex GST)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 12:17:25 pm
content: Just as a follow up to my last email, I attach some pictures from my hand held electronic magnifier. Its an ESCHENBACK Mobilux unit. I know this is OT for the OP's question but thought it might still be of interest.Focus distance is way too close for rework duties, this is strictly for reading IC details and maybe some light inspection work. Magnification on this model is X3 and X6 with a freeze frame capability which can be useful. Several image modes are provided as these units are really a vision aid for those with very poor eyesight so contrast enhancement etc are required options.Sadly my units RRP is nasty expensive but there are cheaper versions available.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 12:38:28 pm
content: Then there are the more exotic electronic magnifiers......This purchased on e*ay for GBP20It is a portable book and document reader for the vision impaired. There is a large 6 1/2" LCD TFT display being fed from one of two cameras. The primary book reading camera looks down out of the bottom of the unit and has an optical zoom (via + and - buttons). To aid people writing it has a second camera that folds out above the primary camera. The whole unit is brought into the vertical position and the second camera deployed. Powerful LED Stage lighting is automatically switched on. All this is powered via the mains adapter of in built Li-Ion batteries. It has a video output to drive a larger display if desired so the user could have a >50" LCD if they wantedNot bad for GBP20 but I know it cost a lot more than that new. My unit appears to be in as new condition complete with case, manual and cleaning kit. I have used it for soldering rework but the image is not as crisp or detailed as the my other available kit. Its just a curio really.