What are these called? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 01:32:26 am
content: My parents' house is filled with old electrical outlets with three positions, instead of two.Anyone know if these switches are still available and what they're called?I've run out of search terms!

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 02:13:58 am
content: Are the switches and the outlet individual units that are put together? Have you gotten into any of them to see what the markings or manufacturer are?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 03:13:45 am
content: That exact version is probably unobtainium. If there's a bad component, you'll probably have to replace the entire switchplate at the very least. Save the good parts as spares for other locations.But the 3-in-1 combination concept is still available. See here for some good general info and an expensive source of a similar style:https://www.kyleswitchplates.com/despard-switches-outlets/Also search your favorite auction sites for "despard switch" and "despard outlet".Beware...insulation on wiring that old may be total crap once you disturb it, so the job may get bigger once you start. In places where you have the wall space for a larger box, you might consider updating to modern parts instead.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 08:06:11 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on May 12, 2018, 03:13:45 amThanks!QuoteYup, I learned that already from other jobs there.That paint-encrusted faceplate was enough to stop me.The switches are OK but no longer have detents, it's the plug that is useless. Nothing modern fits, and it makes bad contact in any case. Looks like there is a grounded outlet available but like you said, once I get behind the faceplate, everything would go sideways!The problem is the kitchen is a 1950s or 1940s design. There are no other outlets on the counter, except for the courtesy plug on the stove, but that's only rated for 5 amps.The switches control counter lighting and the range hood fan.You won't find that anywhere else, I think, except other equally old non-updated houses.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 08:20:55 am
content: why you want to stick with archaic switches? get what is used today, with minimal remake, it can fit on the wall that easy.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 08:30:13 am
content: Yikes .Pre CSA .Probably no ground line and aluminum wire as well .Seen this before and was forced to rewire the whole place before it would pass inspection.All the wire was bare aluminum stapled about a foot apart.Couldn't even reuse the boxes because no new cover plates would fit.Hope your luck is better.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 04:46:59 pm
content: I remember my grandparent's place had a few of those, I think they were popular briefly in the decade or so after WWII and then vanished by the 1960s, if you can find a brand name on them anywhere you might get lucky and find some on ebay or one of those places that sells used building supplies from deconstructed houses and such.While probably not to code, you could make something that would do the job and probably be safer than what's there. You can get snap in panel mount receptacles and toggle or rocker switches. Get a blank cover plate, cut holes in it and mount the hardware, attach pigtails to the devices and wire it in to the box.Another option is restoring the original devices. A good long soak in warm soapy water followed by scrubbing with your finger and an old toothbrush will usually take off the layers of latex paint. Then with some care you can take the thing apart and assess the situation, it's possible that some careful bending of the contacts will restore the grip of the receptacle.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 11:14:17 pm
content: For houses and work done before about 1960, you aren't likely to find aluminum wiring.I'm currently in a house built in 1925. Much of the downstairs and basement has been rewired where there's good access, but the 1st story lights and the entire 2nd story are still using original knob and tube wiring.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 03:06:58 am
content: It looks like a big can of worms. Before opening it have some heat shrink on hand before opening it; it can be slid over the old crumbling insulation and allow you to reinstall the mess safely while you figure out a long term solution.You may be able to cut the tile and install a 3 gang box attached to a stud. I have been attaching household electrical boxes to studs with drywall screws using a DeWalt DWARA50 right angle driver. Extra deep boxes with flat sides make things easier; pre drill screw holes so that they guide the screw and so that the adapter won’t bind.Of course this all depends on the ability to fish new wire if necessary.My wife’s house was built in 1912 with knob and tube wiring which may not have been all original as there was abandoned piping for gas lights. The original service was 30 amps 120 volt only plus lath and plaster on every wall made for a challenging re-wire. I discovered that a Fein multi-tool worked best on the plaster with carbide grit blades.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:47:16 am
content: Quote from: Gregg on May 13, 2018, 03:06:58 amleave the job to home improvement guy if you dont have necessary tools. grinder and cutting disc, rotary hammer, putty knife to put back cement and tiles or wallpaper art etc. but if you have the tools, it should be piece of cake easy..

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 04:18:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 13, 2018, 06:47:16 amleave the job to home improvement guy if you dont have necessary tools. grinder and cutting disc, rotary hammer, putty knife to put back cement and tiles or wallpaper art etc. but if you have the tools, it should be piece of cake easy..I believe that several ghosts of Murphy lie hidden behind that cover plate and within the wall.If digging into this I would prepare for the worst and have materials on hand to back out of the project at any time. Been there, done that!On the other hand it may be almost impossible to find a home improvement person that would do a quality retrofit for this particular case; they may hide worse conditions than those existing.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 04:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: Jwillis on May 12, 2018, 08:30:13 amStapled bare aluminium wires? In what era was that ever acceptable? Even when aluminium wire was a thing they knew better than that.

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:28:27 pm
content: My layman's thinking is that unless you are willing to rewire with copper wiring including ground then you should just terminate the existing wires (e.g., withwing wire connectors), put a blank plate on and call it a day. Otherwise, you need to find receptacles/switches designed for use without grounding (typically all thermoplastic construction except the obvious parts) and rated for use with aluminum. To meet all these criteria and in the triple horizontal single gang layout will be nigh on impossible. You'll have to sacrifice being able to use 3-prong appliances or just go with switches only. The safety and liability risks just aren't worth it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 11:30:50 pm
content: Where did everybody get the idea that aluminum wiring is involved? I didn't see mention of it by the OP and that hardware looks much too old to me for the aluminum era which IIRC was roughly during the Vietnam war when copper prices spiked way up.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 04:28:17 am
content: It's definately copper wiring.The case of someone finding aluminum wiring is jumping to conclusions. You found aluminum wiring becuase some cheapskate idiot rewired the house in the late 60s or early 70s.The OPs wiring is likely original.