Heads Up : Cheap Multimeter : Lidl UK (08/02/18) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: jack-daniels
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:49:33 pm
content: Powerfix Profi Digital MultimeterLarge LCD display and 3.5 digit indicatorMeasures AC/DC up to 300V, AC/DC to 10A and resistanceFeatures diode tester, continuity tester with audible tone and square wave signal generatorMeasurement memory, automatic polarity indicator (for negative value), indicator for AC/DC and overload protectionBattery and leads included£9.99https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=10610Worth a punt just to take apart!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 11:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: jack-daniels on February 07, 2018, 10:49:33 pmFor that kind of money just don't expect to much in the line of accuracy or safety, but the latter part they have already to a degree taken that into consideration by limiting it to 300v. Might be a suitable candidate for a backup meter to keep in the toolbox though and certainly be a good bet for RC model enthusiasts and at £.99 and no waiting for the dreaded postman and shipping from China either.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:59:40 am
content: If you want a cheap meter, why not go for this at £3.10?http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d03046/multimeter-digital/dp/IN07220I've got one. Good enough for the price.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 10:07:23 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on February 08, 2018, 09:59:40 amBecause that really is crap, in the USA Harbour Freight give them away with $50 orders and there are many messages about them on this forum.EDIT. That one make the Lidl one almost a fluke by comparison.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 10:39:06 am
content: It's a bit boring. Why not get one that at least has connectivity so you can use it for data logging.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 10:49:51 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on February 08, 2018, 10:39:06 amWhat, where you can get one of those for £9.99???

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:37:51 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on February 08, 2018, 10:39:06 amAgree. They're here in LIDL Spain as well but I gave it a pass. The CAT III 300V rating is probably real but it's a very basic meter and seemed a bit plasticky. It's also not small or cute, didn't call my attention in any way. Besides, I already own other meters.If you have no other meters and no way to order one online then,maybeget one, but...Quote from: NivagSwerdna on February 08, 2018, 10:39:06 amAt that price?Edit, for newcomers to the thread... I did a review/teardown video on the meter later in the thread. Here's a link to the post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/heads-up-cheap-multimeter-lidl-uk-(080218)/msg1432827/#msg1432827

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:38:49 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 08, 2018, 10:07:23 amThe one Lidl are selling is the same thing with some lipstick.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:43:40 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 11:38:49 amYou mean the red color?Maybe the same thing with some ceramic fuses added. I doubt LIDL would sell something with a fake CE mark or fake CAT rating.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:46:54 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 11:43:40 amI wouldn't be in the least surprised if they did.End of the day it's a cheap ICL7136 clone meter. This was not exciting 10 years ago.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:48:19 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on February 08, 2018, 09:59:40 amInteresting that they've derated it by 50% on all ranges, normally those things are marked 1000V/10A.Still a crap 830B meter though. Not even a buzzer.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:48:51 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 11:38:49 amI very much doubt that its the same thing with lipstick on it, the size and ranges are different for a start and so is the display and ratings, knowing the quality of Lidl's stuff in general, I'd rather trust that one over the other type like you suggested.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:51:31 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 08, 2018, 11:48:51 amThe size is just a plastic box. The display is just an LCD, and the ranges are all the same steps.It's a 3.5 digit low cost multimeter with no autoranging. There's a chip which does that - and they all use it.Pick one up, open it, and bask in the glory of a CoB with some assorted external parts and a trimmer or two.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:54:36 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 11:46:54 amWe'll have to wait for somebody to take on apart but LIDL has to take things like the CE mark very seriously.CATIII 300V isn't a massive rating, $1-ish of extra components in an 830B would do it.

author: Candid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:00:34 pm
content: Because of the easy return policy of Lidl just get one, have look inside and if what you see is not what you like return it.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:01:55 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 11:51:31 amNo, there are different chips in use. The cheap chip has 200VAC as lowest range (Rectification is a diode) and no AC current, other manual range meters use a better chip that can do lower AC voltage and AC current.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:02:16 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 11:51:31 amAt the basic level I agree with you, a box is a box etc, double check the ranges again and you will notice that these are not the same. I don't think you will find an autoranger for that money anywhere other than 2nd hand.No one will argue against the COB approach either, but the its not being sold as a lab grade meter either. Every meter on the market has loads in common with both the cheap ones and also high end ones, just like a car they all will do a the basics and no reason why it wouldn't be capable of doing it for years trouble free with the right care being taken.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:07:41 pm
content: We are taking cheap meters here, not quality ones. I wouldn't trust either with anything important or potentially dangerous. I'd trust both for letting my kids measure a 1.5V battery whilst explaining how electricity works. That's why I consider the £3 meter a cheaper equivalent to the £10 one.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:10:14 pm
content: Also had a look at this meter for the same reason, just curious. After some inside pictures of previous models of the Lidl DMM dropped the idea. The thing costs Eur 15 here (NL), something decent is not that much more.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:11:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on February 08, 2018, 12:07:41 pmI disagree because I know from experience that the probes on the £3 one will probably break with a few hours use. That's if the bettery cable doesn't come off in your hand while you're installing the battery. There's a limit to cheapness.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 12:11:29 pmAgreed the Lidl ones will be OK for general use and the CAT rating will be genuine,they will not want someone suing them for damages.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:32:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 11:37:51 amNope. But you can put the £9.99 towards something far better. My AN8008 which I bought because I can never resist tat that is discussed on this forum was only £5 more (prices seem to have risen slightly then).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:33:58 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on February 08, 2018, 12:32:04 pmBut you can't spend an hour getting that from your local Lidl!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:42:18 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 12:33:58 pmAn hour? My nearest LIDL is 200 meters away, I could have one in five minutes.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:42:53 pm
content: Condolences.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 12:42:18 pmGet one and "Take it apart"

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:59:13 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 08, 2018, 12:52:40 pmMaybe. If I head in that direction today.I can't imagine there's anything exciting inside though. A blobbed chip, some passives, two ceramic fuses and a horrible PVC smell.Is it worth two trips to LIDL?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 01:44:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 12:59:13 pmMaybe something very similar to this meter I got earlier before I acquired some Flukes.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 02:51:44 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 08, 2018, 01:44:40 pmProbably.Blobbed chip in the middle, calibration EEPROM on the left, two fuses, couple of melfs and PTCs, transistor clamp...Review done.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 03:02:49 pm
content: Apart from saying that for the money its accuracy is very good, 6000 count and true RMS, has huge digits, back light display, etc.. Considering I got 2 of these a while back, one was about £12 and the other was free because the first one had an error on the frequency range, thats going to take some beating for sheer value I'm sure

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 04:21:22 pm
content: LIDL meter is 2000 count, no TrueRMS, no backlight, pointless square wave generator, smelly PVC cables...Let's face it: We can do a full, in-depth review without even having one in the building.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 04:25:06 pm
content: I'm more interested in their 30 quid disc sander, hmmm

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 04:37:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 04:21:22 pmYep it's only a basic meter with some gadgets designed for DIY electronics repair really and slow but it's still way better then those silly little yellow blocks that fall apart in your hands.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 04:43:04 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 08, 2018, 04:37:40 pmNo disagreement there.(except it's manual ranging so probably fast)Edit: Actually, there's one unknown! Will the continuity tester be latching or not?

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 05:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 08, 2018, 11:46:54 amI would be VERY surprised if they did.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 05:15:32 pm
content: Quote from: 3db on February 08, 2018, 05:04:25 pmI've seen a lot of companies make that mistake. Big ones, small ones.. it doesn't surprise me to see cheap crap get sold any more.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:05:54 pm
content: Its not pretending to be anything special other than a very basic instrument and they have indicated this by giving it a maximum rating of 300v whereas the D03046 has been given a rating of 500v which would suggest that it could possibly be used on a three phase supply and I for one would not want to be near it let alone holding it when attached to a 415V supply.I have today physically seen the Lidl one although not been possible to play with one as they are in sealed blister packs, but seeing in the flesh it clearly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it is not even trying to convince people as to what its intended user base it is aimed at, the sort of person who would dabble with a portable radio, modellers etc rather full on engineers.Myself as a fully trained and certificated electrical engineer, not contractor but engineer, would not ever be tempted to use it seriously.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 08, 2018, 06:05:54 pmI'm going out in a few minutes and I'm thinking of passing through LIDL to check out the disc sander. I'll have a squiz at the meter, too. Usually people have opened one up in the shop.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 07:02:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 08, 2018, 06:57:50 pmThats what I thought too, but no such luck in my local one, I never thought about the disc sander though

author: Diabolo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 07:12:19 pm
content: Hello,You are jealous because you do not have DMM Lidl !!!Diabolo

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:34:53 pm
content: Pah! The good deal today was the 210mm TCT circular saw blades for £3.99.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:38:55 pm
content: Actually their tools aren't too bad all, I got one of their 18v cordless drills years ago and its still going strong today, on its original battery as well.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:40:31 pm
content: Agreed. In the case of the saw blades TUV Germany certified 7000RPM max. They had up to 80 tooth multi material for that price too.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:52:27 pm
content: I think that they sell some things way below what they should be just to get people into their shops and then they impulse purchase other items whilst there.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:57:36 pm
content: Gearsbest has the zt102 from time to time for 10 to 12,- bucks or so. I get mail notification then.https://de.gearbest.com/multimeters-fitting/pp_650318.html

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:29:40 pm
content: Another low-cost one for low-volt home/hobby use (Aneng 8203):https://www.ebay.de/itm/LCD-Digital-Multimeter-Kapazitat-Messgerat-VOLTMETER-AC-DC-Diodentest-4000-Count/202188649671?hash=item2f1361f4c7:g:WoMAAOSwp7taXGaC

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 08, 2018, 09:29:40 pmQuote from: daybyter on February 08, 2018, 08:57:36 pmGood as these may be, you cannot simply walk into a local shop and walk out with one, which is kind of the point with the Lidl deal, you can get one in your hand without having to wait weeks in the case of it coming from China and no waiting for the mailman or postman depending on where you live.Personally I wouldn't want any of them but thats just me, I like to have something a bit more chunky and robust and something I feel I can trust to be a good all rounder because I might also like to to get involved in some high energy projects because thats my back ground.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 10:05:58 pm
content: QuoteOk, but the Lidl offering is only a week or so.My local electronics shop has a Peaktech 1070 for Eur 19 (The Lidl one was Eur 15 here), also next week.http://peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/digital---handmultimeter/produkt/p-1070.html

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 10:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 08, 2018, 10:05:58 pmBe that as it may but the Peaktech is only rated at Cat II at 250v.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 06:29:32 am
content: QuoteNow that is a spec I trust(It is also TUV certified). So what makes the Lidl PDM 300 B1 DMM that special. Can't be sure without one taken apart and tested.There is already an unboxing/opening video of the previous pro model (PDM 300 A1):Watch the guy connect the meter first thing with a mains socket and the meter in VDC range (near the end).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 09:55:18 am
content: Quote from: markce on February 09, 2018, 06:29:32 am...except there's no such rating!CAT ratings go 150V, 300V, 600V, 1000V.I went to LIDL and there was a meter out of the packet. I hefted it a bit and turned the dial while going "hmmm". Very lightweight, hard red plastic (not a rubber boot). I wouldn't buy it myself but I suppose it's a big step up from an 830B. I know lots of people who'd think it was a quality meter (not EEVBLOG readers).It comes with a Mitsubishi 9V battery and a little black phillips screwdriver to open the battery door and install it - just in case you're the sort of multimeter buyer who doesn't own any screwdrivers.Looks like we didn't get the disc sanders here in Spain. There was a combo belt sander+grinder thing but no disc sanders. Maybe they'll come around in a few months. I figure the way those shops work is the stuff that doesn't sell in one shop/country is circulated to other shops/countries until it does.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:11:46 am
content: A tenner is a bit expensive for that turd.I'm a firm believer that there is no such thing as a bargain in Lidl or Aldi.Delivered to your door free in 2-3 days...http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d03048/multimeter-digital/dp/IN07222But why would you when you can have three of these delivered to your door for less!http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d03046/multimeter-digital/dp/IN07220The £3.11 Duratools have proper fuses (!) and solid tubular sockets (none of those bent bits of metal)

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:38:27 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 09, 2018, 09:55:18 amAccording to this video there is as the meter here proudly claims CAT II @ 250V whereas the one referred to in the link claims CAT III @ 300v so they can't even agree which standard they adhere to.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:45:59 am
content: Quote from: markce on February 09, 2018, 06:29:32 amI must be doing multimeter videos wrong. Thisidiotperson has more views that I do.Maybe I need to adjust my worldview to one where the first thing anybody wants to do with a piece of test gear isconnect it to mains AC.So far I've been telling people not to. It usually makes me unpopular.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:47:46 am
content: Quote from: markce on February 09, 2018, 06:29:32 amLidl's is also supposed to be TUV rated.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 11:02:21 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 09, 2018, 10:47:46 amHe even managed to connect the red wire to the COM socket:Still, he owns a 4V video camera so he must know what he's doing...I'm thinking I should get one of these meters just so I can do a video showing how to put the battery in and poke the probes in a mains socket. Maybe I could make it go beep and measure a few batteries as well.The target demographic will love it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 11:12:16 am
content: I did a review of the free one that came with my Rigol which is of the same class a while ago:

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 11:21:23 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 09, 2018, 11:02:21 amMaybe you ought to do a video of a head to head between, Duratool, Peaktech and Lidl and see which one is the clear if there is one at all.I expect that in the right hands, they are all capable meters up to a point, problem is though that most of the people buying any of these are not what I would call a capable pair of hands, they are going to make mistakes and there will be accidents, magic smoke at best, worst flames etc escaping, just hope that there wont any injuries.EDITThe meter in this video is not the current one on offer at Lidl, I thought I should make this point in fairness, until someone actually gets a current meter from Lidl, we don't really know how it stacks up against previous models or the competitors.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 11:27:01 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 09, 2018, 11:21:23 amI don't own any of the others.Quote from: Specmaster on February 09, 2018, 11:21:23 amI'm fairly sure the LIDL one will meet the CAT rating. It might be damaged bu it won't kill you.It occurs to me that I've never connected a meter to mains AC and spun the dial before. Maybe I could do that to this one.It's only a 3 connector meter with the mA range on the main socket so the fuse will need to work.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 11:30:01 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 09, 2018, 11:12:16 amThat's not a review, thats someone knocking a pile of poo of the table

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 12:43:24 pm
content: OK, I did it. I'm now the proud owner of my very own "multimetro digital" from LIDL. 12.99 Euros.And, yep, it's TUVandGScertified (on the packaging and the meter) so it's not playing games in the safety department.Review to follow.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 12:53:38 pm
content: I didn't think for a minute that they would be selling something (not knowingly anyway) something did not meet some standard or other, being a German company, they like to stick to the rules. This ought to be an interesting review, nothing earth shattering but I think a reasonable level of performance given its price point.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 01:09:37 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 09, 2018, 12:53:38 pmYep.Gotta love the little screwdriver they include in the packet...The backing cardboard feels about 1cm thick. I'm betting there's a hefty manual hidden in there.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 01:31:17 pm
content: There certainly will be a manual in there as always a multilingual one, hence its thickness.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 01:45:51 pm
content: QuoteOk, I was to quick, I expect they used a 250V fuse in it. It looks like a Chinese product, so specs vary....For the Lidl Pro, Beeing CATIII, will the fuses actually be able to break a >3kA current?

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 01:48:44 pm
content: Here is the manual:http://www.lidl-service.com/cps/rde/SID-5188704E-2A74A097/lsp/hs.xsl/product.html?id=1414897263&rdeLocaleAttr=en&title=Digital%20Multimeter

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 02:07:55 pm
content: From the manual:QuoteWhat? It's a Pro meter...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 02:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 09, 2018, 02:07:55 pmI'm guessing that's more to do with the 3 year guarantee than anything else.Edit: They put that disclaimer on their power tools as well, where it makes more sense. eg. Their drills are designed for home use, they obviously aren't going to last three years on a building site.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 02:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 09, 2018, 02:07:55 pmNo professional engineer worthy of being called an engineer would consider using this meter under those conditions, it is in my view aimed squarely at the R/C modelers and the Arduino fans out there where high energy is unlikely to be found and the audio enthusiasts for checking cables, low volts and current etc.The reference to profi is like a piece of audio gear that might have Professional as part of its model name etc. and just applying a little common sense tells you that it is highly unlikely that you would ever see such equipment used in a professional situation.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 02:31:44 pm
content: RC stuff is pretty dangerous. I'd expect it to be suitably rated for that.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 02:35:06 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 09, 2018, 02:31:44 pmYes I would to, and I think it is aimed at those types of customers which CATIII 300V more than covers.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 02:55:27 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 09, 2018, 02:31:44 pmThe rating is CAT III, 300V. There's nothing ambiguous about that.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 03:01:20 pm
content: Just funny, the 'Pro' in the naming with this restriction.The fuses in this meter are 5x25mm? Are they actually labelled 300V?

author: Diabolo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 05:10:53 pm
content: Hello,The portable led lamp sold by LIDL is not bad, and we can also feed it with a 18650 li-ion battery to replace the 3 AAA batteries, and it works very well.Diabolo

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 06:54:17 pm
content: Quote from: Diabolo on February 09, 2018, 05:10:53 pmYep, I have a few of their products , LED lights, Infra Red thermometers, torches, tools, kettles etc and have had no problems with at all, and most of them carry a 3 warranty.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 09:38:54 pm
content: No transistor tester? Worthless.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: kcbrown on February 09, 2018, 09:38:54 pmYou laugh but those are bloody usefulMeasure 2n3904 hFe ... ooh 190.Stick in circuit ... fuck screwed something up and it got a bit hot.Measure 2n3904 hFe ... boo 12 ... chuck in bin.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:15:24 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 09, 2018, 10:11:55 pmI know Dave doesn't like them but before I got separate testers for transistors, they have got me out of shit. I'm thinking about getting an IC tester as well.

author: JonM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 04:23:23 am
content: I was at my local Lidl a few days ago (yes, we have them in the US now). I got sour cream, #10 50mm Torx drive wood screws (that don't seem to exist anywhere else), and some nice Belgian beer. I did not see any DMMs...

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 10:31:14 am
content: For your amusement.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 11:32:17 am
content: Why oh why do they always use shitty pressed strips for the terminals. They wear out and break in no time at all.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 12:19:32 pm
content: Only a single point of contact on each tube to the PCB, input protection is also very basic but on the plus side it does seem to have decent isolation/clearance around the 10A current shunt. I wonder if the socket tubes are enclosed on the base half of the casing to try and minimise and flash and debris exiting the case in the event of anything happening?

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 12:56:15 pm
content: A simple meter, but the input do not look bad:One 10Mohm input distributed on 4 resistorsOne 1Mohm input distributed on 5 resistorsCurrent output protected by PTC and a dual transistor clampmAuA shunts protected by fuse and diodes.It will not survive long if Joe gets his hands on it, but may last forever around the house.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 01:27:33 pm
content: Ok, it is clearly cheap build, but better than I expected. They actually have 300V labelled fuses. Is there a brand on them?A picture of the other side of the board would be nice.

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 01:33:14 pm
content: I picked it up to take and leave at a holiday home. I've not paid too much attention to duty cycles on other meters (I've got a couple of original fluke 87's for work) but the Lidl one is rated at 10a, 10 seconds max every 15 mins. Guess that shunt gets pretty hot !

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 01:49:07 pm
content: Yes it is a cheap build but I had no doubt that would be better than most people expected it to be because generally speaking items sold by Lidl are pretty good in the quality stakes otherwise they would not be able to give a 3 year warranty on them. Go into most of our electrical shop/sheds and buy anything and they try their hardest to get you to also buy an extended warranty to provide a 3 warranty which is generally the 1 year manufacturers warranty followed on by 2 warranty by an insurance company.I had my hands on one of these meters yesterday (still in its blister pack) and I can tell you that it is very lightweight, but then I have been used to far larger and chunkier meters but still I doubt that it would stand up to being used professionally day in, day out but hobbyist use yes it would survive that ok.I think that Fungus is in the process of doing a review on this meter and I think it will be interesting and I have no doubts that it will be tested to destruction but should come out pretty well against similarly priced meters in the market.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 01:55:53 pm
content: Quote from: donkey77 on February 10, 2018, 01:33:14 pmI don't think its the shunt, as it looks reasonably sized in the photo in post #79 so I'm not sure for the time limit unless the trace is the issue and then again, how often are you going to be using the current range at anything near its maximum capacity, It would more then likely carry a few amps almost indefinitely.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 01:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 10, 2018, 01:55:53 pmIt will get fairly warm with 1 watt in it (0.01ohm and 10A).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 02:08:13 pm
content: I'm surprised, it's actually not an ICL71x6. I guess they're finally abandoning them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 02:29:52 pm
content: It probably is one of those Chinese clones of one still. They aren’t going away any time soon.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 02:30:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 10, 2018, 02:29:52 pmExcept it has digital calibration - that's not a feature of those chips.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 09:53:17 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 09, 2018, 12:43:24 pmHow is the review working out?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 09:57:41 pm
content: He's dead

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2018, 12:20:17 am
content: Should have tested a Fluke 25 then

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2018, 11:08:55 pm
content: Been looking for this announced review of Fungus for 10 days now....Still no 'Pro' meter advertisement from Lidl here in NL.Who'll be fist: Lidl or Fungus.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2018, 11:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 17, 2018, 11:08:55 pmMaybe its either killed him (joking of course) or he is having trouble killing it, no doubt we will find out in due course, my local Lidl still has a few left but they do appear to have been selling really well.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2018, 11:49:21 pm
content: Perhaps he got so bored he didn't finish.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2018, 11:55:27 pm
content: I already have a Fluke and others for electronics work, but still have an old analog meter in my DIY tools box. Just out of curiosity, I've had a look art what DIY stores are offering here. At the price point, the Lidle meter seems quite a good offering.I would certainly like an 'inside' review.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2018, 11:57:31 pm
content: I doubt that, I would say that he was already working on other reviews so the Lidl meter was simply added to end of that list and we will have to wait a while

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2018, 12:02:41 am
content: Quote from: markce on February 17, 2018, 11:55:27 pmI too have Flukes, currently I'm sitting with up to 14 Flukes at my disposal along with a few other makes. I too would love to know more about the Lidl meter as I like Lidl's a lot and I find that in general there tools are excellent value for money and I'm expecting a pretty reasonable performance from this meter as well, not that I have one or will be getting anytime soon as I think I currently have enough.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2018, 12:21:09 am
content: RIP FungusWe'll all miss your popcorn indulging presence here, and lots of good advicesuch as cautioning ****heads not to go sticking their shiny new DSO 1x probes into the mains,especially if the mancave was recently flooded and using a DIY extension power cord or dumpster IEC cable with 50/50 coin tossActive<?>NeutralwiringIf you can read this from upstairsor down therehey I did caution you about these cheapass meters many times"quote"...only good as car wheel chocs or clay pigeon shooting

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2018, 12:29:52 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 18, 2018, 12:21:09 amHey, I hope that your only joking here and Fungus is OK alive and well.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2018, 10:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 18, 2018, 12:29:52 amIt's 100%and jokingdon't want to lose our Spanish Connection to a cheap meter mishaphe may be in the lab busy doing the olive oil thing they do over thereor getting an awesome Youtube video review ready on that cheap pesos meter

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2018, 10:49:31 pm
content: Good, I expect that is what he is doing and I think that his conclusion might well reveal that this cheap meter while is not going to shatter the earth or even dent it. But I do think that it will prove to be far better then a lot of people would expect it to be given its budget price.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2018, 07:11:43 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 16, 2018, 09:57:41 pmOn holiday, back today.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2018, 07:36:29 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 19, 2018, 07:11:43 amSo glad to hear that you are OK, welcome back.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2018, 07:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 19, 2018, 07:36:29 amTeardown/review video is in the can...

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2018, 03:17:58 pm
content: Great news, will it be on line?

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2018, 05:11:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 09, 2018, 09:55:18 amCould be so, LIDL Sweden got the disk sander but not the DMM. Speaking of which, i have to go to Lidl to buy some more of their excellent gentlemens underwear!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2018, 07:21:33 pm
content: I've been on an urgent windfarm design job for two days.I'm just off to LIDL, I'll get it all edited when I get back....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 07:43:27 pm
content: Finally got around to editing the video. It takes ages...Edit: Video replaced with fixed version where I remembered to switch the meter on.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 08:07:54 pm
content: QuoteThe disk sander is nice saves having to mess about with a vice and file.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 08:39:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 21, 2018, 07:43:27 pmNice review, so I was right, the CAT rating is correct and the meter as a whole is well protected up to the 300VAC and is certainly head and shoulders above the likes of the little D03046 type meters that cost around the £3 mark and the meter would certainly benefit from replacing the leads with some decent silicon ones.I wont be however buying one as I have an overload of far better rated meters already and SWMBO would probably have something to say about it if I did.Thank you for taking the effort to acquire one of these from your local store and putting it through its paces, and well done to any members who also acquired one for their use, I'm sure that you will feel better with the results of this test.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 08:54:19 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 21, 2018, 08:39:28 pmThanks!Quote from: Specmaster on February 21, 2018, 08:39:28 pmThat would be my biggest complaint about the meter - the horrible leads.Quote from: Specmaster on February 21, 2018, 08:39:28 pmI'm hoping mine won't see this video.(and technically, I could still return it to the store.)Quote from: Specmaster on February 21, 2018, 08:39:28 pm

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 09:02:41 pm
content: Somehow I get the impression that the meter is going to find a long term home with you, am I wrong?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 09:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 21, 2018, 09:02:41 pmNah, I like my ANENG 860B+ too much and I've got an old Fluke 27 for poking at AC mains with.I'm wondering what to do with the LIDL meter. Maybe I could donate it to a worthy cause or do a giveaway.I think postage might cost more than the meter though.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 09:20:57 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 21, 2018, 09:12:40 pmI'm with you on the Fluke 27, I've 2 of them myself along with 11 or so Fluke 25's although a couple need battery compartment covers at least so I'm well off for handhelds

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 09:32:33 pm
content: The TÜV certificate number printed on the meter looks also real:https://www.certipedia.com/quality_marks/1419042732?locale=en&certificate_number=50366474Not much test details, but at least the page reports the fulfilled standards.

author: ModemHead
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 09:44:00 pm
content: Wouldn't it be best to turn the meter on for the diode test?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 09:47:02 pm
content: Depends on whether or not you care of the diode is working or not. Back in the 1990s, my father hired an electrician that had a DMM without a battery in it and he was probing everything.Cargo culting if there ever was any.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 10:43:23 pm
content: Quote from: ModemHead on February 21, 2018, 09:44:00 pmIt actually makes no difference.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 11:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 21, 2018, 09:47:02 pmSo everything showed as being dead, so what happened, did he kill himself then?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 11:48:07 pm
content: Unfortunately no he didn't. My father nearly did though. He wasn't one for tolerating that sort of shit.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 09:17:36 am
content: It must have been good gunjato go to a job and take DMM meter readings without a batteryHis mistake was not offering the client a puff or two, or three...whoa!Next time if he wants to be professional, he'll rock up with an analogue meter that will work in most modes without a battery, a pair of tangled leads to look the partand a bag of awesome weed to blow the client away, and call in a straight electrical contractor to sort out the faulty electricalsMoney for jam, too easy

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 09:40:27 am
content: It's basically why you don't go for the lowest bidder. I made the same mistake. Some guy turned up and said "I'll mow your lawn for a tenner". Thought fuck it, why not. Next thing I know there's 3 foot across holes all over it.Back on Lidl, apparently an older relative has bought me one of these because "I'm into electronics and stuff". I appreciate the naive thought, I think. I'll get my hands on it soon.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 09:56:09 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 22, 2018, 09:40:27 amNice one  no fear of me getting one though, not that I wouldn't if I didn't have other meters already. I generally find that their selection of tools are often worthy of closer inspection, I have a few of their's in my collection.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 11:18:56 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 22, 2018, 09:56:09 amAnd kitchen appliances. I've got quite a few of those as well. They're all in the "basic but works" camp but I've never had any problems. One power saw I bought my wife for Xmas had to go back under garantee but the process was painless.Getting back to the meter: I think this one suits the target demographic perfectly, somebody at LIDL obviously understands multimeters.Imagine if they'd asked one ofusto specify a meter, there's no way it would have sold for 13 Euros.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 11:36:33 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 22, 2018, 11:18:56 amYep, I've a few of their kitchen appliances and also a fan heater that my late mother purchased, their binoculars and spotter scopes are also excellent value, I have a pair of their binoculars that only cost £20 and my son had a pair of made by a company (well known brand name for their binoculars and cameras, costing over £100 and when we go to airshows etc, which pair does he prefer, yep, mine from Lidl's. The optics on them is just blows the other clean out of the water, the brand name begins with P and ends with a.Thats why I never doubted for a single moment that their meter would be any less quality then the bino's. It can be seen that the case of the meter has been value engineered but still had the metal inserts for the screws though, and thats acceptable given its price point. Well done Lidl.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 11:49:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 21, 2018, 10:43:23 pmOh, great. Youtube has removed annotations so I can't fix it without replacing the entire video.Edit: I just noticed there's a missing scene as well. I tested different color LEDs, it can just about light up a red one.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 12:47:31 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 22, 2018, 11:49:19 amAfter they removed annotations, editing was put under much more scrutiny by me - corrections are impossible to be made unless you redo the whole thing or post another video correcting the first one...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 06:52:43 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 22, 2018, 12:47:31 pmI just re-shot that scene and added the missing scene with the LEDs. I'm encoding a whole new video to replace that one.This video blogging thing isn't as easy as it looks.Edit: New version uploaded. If you want to sit through it again that's up to you.TLDR version: The meter can light up red and green LEDs, it can't light up blue or white ones.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 07:39:14 pm
content: A shot of the PCB (taken from the video):I forgot to mention the flux residue around the hand-soldered parts (power switch and buzzer).

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 07:53:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 22, 2018, 06:52:43 pmThats not that great a issue as there are many meters with the same problem.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 07:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 22, 2018, 07:53:14 pmYes. I mention in the video that the meter doesn't claim to be an LED tester.It works fine as a diode tester.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 09:18:36 pm
content: Hah, quite interesting: I just noticed the top right corner that the meter is All-Sun. Joe tested another meter of the same brand a while ago.Quote from: Fungus on February 22, 2018, 07:59:24 pmIn this topic the Keysight U127x/U128x still impress me, as they measure junction voltages of more than 3V. Most of the others I have tested (BM857, UT61E, UT136C) can still light up LEDs, but measure up to 2V.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 09:36:45 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 22, 2018, 09:18:36 pmSeeing as the Keysight is in a completely different price league and also aimed at the electronic engineer I'd be very surprised if it didn't. For the price of the Keysight you could buy quite a few of Lidl meter.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 09:57:04 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 22, 2018, 09:36:45 pmIt was just an observation, not a "show off"Believe me, the Keysight U1282A loses by a mile in certain aspects when compared to much cheaper meters such as the UT61E.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 10:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 22, 2018, 09:18:36 pmMy $20 ANENG 860B+ just lit up a white LED + diode in series (with a reading of 2.96V).The voltage on the probes in diode mode is 3.2V so I'm guessing that's the limit.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2018, 10:36:24 pm
content: Just tried on my U1241C. The thing quite happily lights up a blue, white and even UV LED. However it only reports up to about 3v drop (red, green, yellow all report a voltage).I absolutely love that meter though.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 11:46:24 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 21, 2018, 07:43:27 pmYou get to the safety fuse, see the voltage and current rating and call it good. The CE standards talk about the break currents for the various CAT environment. I don't think these are going to disrupt a 10KA and up circuit. Are they even filled or just have a ceramic body? Any safety agency markings on them?Where was the boat test? Where was the meter being dragged on a rope test? lol. Pull those fuses apart and lets see what a government agency feels is good enough to keep the general population safe in CAT III.

author: Rbastler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 02:00:39 pm
content: This looks quite a bit better, than the other Lidl meter I bought for shits and giggles and then threw away.Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 04:39:16 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 23, 2018, 11:46:24 amThey don't have to for CAT III300V.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 05:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2018, 04:39:16 pmI can't answer if they have to or not. Apparently the government does not care as they have approved it.The IEC standards certainly cover fuses. I've posted this table before from 61010 showing the typical currents for the various CAT ratings. This is why we have safety fuses. As I suggested, I doubt your fuses have been certified. Under Protection by uncertified current limitation devices...QuoteBreak those fuses open or lets try putting 50KA through that meter and see what happens.Almost forgot...

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 05:34:37 pm
content: I suppose that table can be derated for lower voltages and internal resistance in the meter

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 05:42:48 pm
content: Quote from: HKJ on February 23, 2018, 05:34:37 pm...and because CAT III has at least one circuit breaker between you and the nearest substation.If you live in a house where the mains sockets can demonstrably supply 50kA then I suggest you contact your electricity provider.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 06:38:29 pm
content: The PCB and its components (bottom side) certainly looks better than I expected. And fuses are actually labelled 300V.Reading the manual chapter "safety instructions" is quite funny. Even with overflow on a range your meter could be damaged! Good luck with Joe's test.Nowhere in the manual is referred to IEC 61010.It only states:Overvoltage category CAT III 300V (digital multimeter and test leads)So only the voltage part of CAT III???The good news is: it has 2 fuses and they are a regular size (though small). You could most likely use Peaktech or other multimeter 300V FF fuses as replacement.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 07:10:55 pm
content: Now I'm not at all familiar with what the standard for CAT III is but it strikes me that maybe it is not a requirement for the meter to still be operable after seeing a fault of that magnitude but it is expected to be able to handle that size of fault safely without causing harm to the user? So if that is the case, then aren't we going ever deeper in to a rabbit hole that we don't need to?Personally I'd be very happy if I was using the meter and it saw a fault of that size and in the process handling it safely it became part of the sacrifice, the meter is easy to replace.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:25:22 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 23, 2018, 06:38:29 pmThe IEC61010 compliance reference is in the TÜV test certificate...https://www.certipedia.com/certificates/50366474?locale=en

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:31:27 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 23, 2018, 08:25:22 pmSo thats it then, the meter does apparently fully meet all the requirements of CAT III 300v meter so the meter gets a bigeven if it only gets it for value for money award as the review highlights, it does have one or two areas that could be improved to make it more suitable electronics use.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 23, 2018, 08:25:22 pmI just checked and can confirm that "PDM 300 B1"isthe model number stamped on the back of my meter.Good find!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:39:14 pm
content: Actually, it was bitwelder's find...Quote from: bitwelder on February 21, 2018, 09:32:33 pm

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:46:43 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2018, 08:35:28 pmYou and I have been vindicated in our belief that this meter did in fact meet the requirements after all.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:51:32 pm
content: It says a lot that they went to TÜV (and got a GS mark too) rather than a lesser test house, they ain't cheap!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:53:48 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 23, 2018, 07:10:55 pmNot many people are. It's not a public document.Quote from: Specmaster on February 23, 2018, 07:10:55 pmI believe that's the consensus around here.After looking inside I was sure this meter wasn't going to explode with 230V AC but I wasn't 100% sure it would still work after applying mains to the more "delicate" ranges.(and the first time the screen went blank when I was zapping it was a bit worrying)But... it survived and still works perfectly.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 08:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 23, 2018, 08:51:32 pmA big supermarket like LIDL doesn't have much choice over things like that.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:06:41 pm
content: The thing is that Lidl I'm certain, often sell items at or sometimes below their cost price as a means of tempting new customers in to their stores and then while there make other impulse purchases from their normal stock lines. Things like these meters are only available maybe once a year as each week they have new special purchases as their "magnets" and its a ploy seems to be working well as I have seen my local store go from being very quiet to almost being rammed 7 days a week. The same is also true of their other major competitor Aldi, both of them employ these special purchases to attract customer into their stores and Aldi have just opened a second store in Chelmsford and I doubt that Lidl will be far behind.So in real terms I fully expect that the true sales price for that meter should be much higher and anyone who has gotten one of them, I say well done to you.

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:12:44 pm
content: Isn't there some agreement that Lidl and Aldi don't compete in the same area/town?!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:14:29 pm
content: Nope - on the A4 going into Reading, they are side by side!There's a no right-turn though, so you have to go to Lidl first.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:17:48 pm
content: I understand that they are owned by two brothers who had a falling out and opened their own chain of stores and are both now worldwide. They are often to be found in the same towns as well.What you often find is that they will both have similar offers within a very short period of time between them, albeit with different brand names, so it might be that the brand names are all made in the same factory anyway.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:19:08 pm
content: No, I think that was the Lidl brothers (?) they split Germany between them.Oops, no. It was the Aldi ones.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:29:31 pm
content: I'm only down the road in Basingstoke. We've got 2 Lidl's, but no Aldi's. As yet.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 09:59:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2018, 05:42:48 pmIn your mind, CAT III is only in your house? IEC shows <50KA so I suspect in some cases CAT III will be this high. Most of the meters will use 10KA and up HRC fuses now. Of course, it seems the GS people don't care about such things. Water's them down as far as I am concerned.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 10:28:10 pm
content: Thanks for the link to the TUV certificate. So its the real deal. GS in itself does not mean much, except verification of the testhouse (TUV in this case). TUV Rheinland with the certification is what counts.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 10:41:39 pm
content: Oops, I stand corrected, I always thought that that the Aldi brothers split up and one of them formed Lidl but thats not the case at all, Lidl is in fact nothing to do with Aldi except from being one of the their biggest rivals. So they you go, learn something new everyday.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2018, 10:56:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2018, 05:42:48 pmIn that situation, it may be the next of kin contacting the electricity provider

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 01:30:12 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2018, 05:42:48 pmEspecially here in the UK where the normal practise is to run the power feed either along the side of the street or in the middle of the street and tap of to each house in turn. That then gives each house a reasonable length of cable from the tap-off point to the meter, then there are the meter tails, and at least 1 circuit breaker of a current limiting type plus the cable run from the circuit breaker to the socket in question.The supply authorities demand that a dwelling be designed to handle a 16KA fault at the consumer unit, so the 50KA does not apply to domestic dwellings. I used to work for a manufacturer of domestic wiring accessories and it was calculated at the time of that regulation being introduced that the maximum fault current at the average socket in a domestic property was rarely going to exceed even 6KA once all the cable impedance had been taken into account and the speed of a modern MCB has already disconnected the supply before 50% of the maximum fault current has been reached and modern UK specification MCB's are all designed to safely handle a fault current of 10KA.So that clearly suggests that this meter is fully rated for its intended use, with in and on normal domestic use as those fuses will safely handle 10KA otherwise it would not have have received the certification.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 11:29:55 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 23, 2018, 10:41:39 pmIt's a common belief. There's a half-heard story of a fight between two brothers, there's two stores with almost identical namesandthe same weird business model, but ... 2+2!=4 in this case.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 02:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 24, 2018, 01:30:12 amSince when? Not a single part of the CU is rated to handle 16kA that I've ever seen.QuoteI think you'll find the rating on MCBs for single-phase installations is 6kA.QuoteBut you don't actually know what the standard requires as you haven't read it, nor have any of us seen the test reports.Much clear, very data.

author: Candid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 08:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 23, 2018, 10:41:39 pmThe Aldi brothers split Aldi germany in Aldi north and Aldi south what it is until today.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 08:12:53 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 24, 2018, 02:45:02 pmAll UK manufacturers design and test their consumer units to whats known as 16KA Conditional rating and this is mentioned in their technical data sections of their catalogues.Yes there are some single phase MCB's that are rated at 6KA and there are others on sale in the UK that are also rated at 10KA, again look in the technical section of some of the catalogues and you'll see MCB's categorised as being either 6KA or 10KA

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 08:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 24, 2018, 08:12:53 pm16kA conditional is handwaving. The upstream fuse does all the work.QuoteI didn't say single-phase MCBs, I said MCBs for single-phase installations. Units designed for three-phase installations are 10kA rated. All the major manufacturers have separate lines for trivial domestic installs and commercial and industrial ones where fault currents are significant.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 09:43:02 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 24, 2018, 01:30:12 amI wonder how many times a product has been certified, then the design changes but the company still uses the old cert. In the case of fuses, that would be a simple thing to replace. The ones Dave was selling I believe were rated for 10KA breaking capacity. From Fungus's review, I have know idea if the fuses were even certified or not. We have to just go on his expert opinion that they are fine.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2018, 09:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 24, 2018, 08:29:01 pmExactly, and this is what I said "The supply authorities demand that a dwelling be designed to handle a 16KA fault at the consumer unit" If this means that a suitably rated fuse needs to be inserted between their service fuse and the customers circuits then so be it. That "fuse" needs to discriminate between their fuse so the Intermediary fuse is the sacrificial element and as such becomes the clients responsibility for replacement rather then the electricity board having to to be called out to replace their fuse and or reset / replace circuit protection devices further upstream. Hence the terminology 16KA conditional. The only location where this is likely to happen in a domestic situation is right at the consumer unit which is fed via either 16 or 20mm cables, any other location after the consumer unit will also have the attenuation of the MCB it self and the cable, which for a 13A socket on a ring main is more then likely to be connected to either 2.5mm or 4mm cables and normally will have 2m or more of cable run to the socket to take into account as well.Quote from: Monkeh on February 24, 2018, 08:29:01 pmThere is nothing to prevent either a 6KA or a 10KA single pole device being installed in a domestic installation. I think that some of them are interchangeable, many of these MCB's are 17.5mm wide but even if they are not, a single phase board designed for industrial/commercial use can be and indeed many have been fitted into domestic dwellings.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 01:16:45 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 24, 2018, 09:52:56 pmUh, said upstream fuse is their service fuse. The big BS1361 one in the cutout before the meter. As I said, handwaving - if they were actually in any way capable of handling such energythey'd actually be rated for it, not 'type tested' while being protected by another device!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 09:42:04 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 25, 2018, 01:16:45 amAgreed, but I never said that the consumer unit could handle it, I said that circuit had to be designed such that a fault of that magnitude occurring at the CU must be cleared without taking out the service cutout fuse. This was because they were experiencing a lot of call outs to replace their service fuses so they wanted designers to build in a consumer replaceable sacrifice fuse that would descrimanate with the service fuse only blowing if the fault exceeded the 16KA declared value.I hope that this draws a line on this issue as it actually detracts from the original thread IMHO and we are both pretty much on the same page in reality.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 10:42:48 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 24, 2018, 09:43:02 pmOn thecertit says:"TÜV Rheinland performs checks to maintain the certification. Tests are carried out to ascertain whether the manufactured product still conforms to the tested type or whether changes have been made. Such inspections, which usually take place on an annual basis, also include a control of the quality system as well as the final examination. The aim is to determine whether mass production can ensure the safety requirements for the product."The award of the GS mark is governed by the Product Safety Act and limited to a maximum of five years.It expires automatically if there is any change to the tested product.Quote from: joeqsmith on February 24, 2018, 09:43:02 pmI'm not sure how I could test that. The markings on them for the rated voltage were present and correct. Blowing them using 230V mains wouldn't give any real safety information.Why wouldn't they be the correct fuses? The cert says there's a large organization grabbing meters directly off the production line and testing them.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 02:54:59 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2018, 10:42:48 amAs I mentioned, the safety fuses are independently certified just like the meter. As I understand it, you could use an fuse that has not been certified but how they would test it, I am not sure (that was the section I had included previously). I expect this is why the reputable brand meters always use certified fuses. Sorry, but I have damaged most of the junk fuses making demo videos so I don't have a lot of examples.Fuse1, top to bottom is a SIBA, ASTM from Dave,,and a fuse marked SIBA.Fuse 2 we can clearly see the first two have some sort of cert mark. The last fuse is the counterfeit SIBA. It's chewed up from pulling it apart when I made the videos but they were at least good enough not to have any cert markings on it. The 4th fuse has no markings beyond a voltage and current.Fuse 3 is a close up of the 3rd fuse, actually a 1000V part made my Little Fuse.In some cases, we can lookup the datasheets for the fuses to find out more about them. In the case of Dave's fuses, we now know that there are a few different data sheets floating around so make sure you get the correct one if you look it up.I wonder how much checking really happens. Would an inspector even know what to look for? I am not so sure. Maybe they just buy them lunch and move on. It's also a bit strange that they would allow that Gossen to be approved when something as simple as the magnetic hanger can cause it to read low voltages in presence of high voltages. Consider that EMC report I had attached some time ago about the ESD testing. To me, these things just water down the usefulness of the standards. Go to TUVs website, it looks to me like a bunch of marketing people throwing a party.In your video, I can't tell if they are a certified safety fuse or not. You could easily check it for any markings. Maybe see if you can find the datasheet for it.I am limited in what I can do with my own testing. The highest energy transients I can produce are around 4-600 joules and I am not even close to a KA, let alone 10KA. Still even with these low levels, it's fairly easy to see why something sold for CAT III, this stuff becomes important.https://youtu.be/xLDok9Sm07Q?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQAk2Q57Obdy-2yVNF-m_huu

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 03:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 25, 2018, 02:54:59 pmOK, I see what you mean.The other end of the fuse has an Underwriters Laboratory logo stamped on it.The logo is followed by the letters 5HF. If they're following the code then H=high breaking capacity, F=fast blow.https://www.swe-check.com.au/pages/learn_fuse_markings.php(edited because the "H" part was unclear, "H'"doesn't specify an actual current value other than "high")Basically: This meter is certified all the way.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 04:47:15 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on February 25, 2018, 09:42:04 amWe're really not on the same page. There are no consumer replacable fuses - if you happen to be on a domestic supply with such a high PFC and the MCB doesn't manage to clear the fault, the service fuse is blowing. There's not going to be any discrimination - the specified BS1361 fuse is the very type they fit. The 16kA 'rating' is dependent onthe service fuse.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 04:52:09 pm
content: Thank you for taking the time to check this further.I have never seen a requirement for what the break current requirement is for handhelds beyond the sections I posted. The meters seem to be all over the place. 10KA is common for the low current (500mA and lower) fuses but the 10A and up fuses seem to be 20-30KA, 1000V ACDC rated. The ones Dave is offering have a 30KA interrupt current.Any idea who makes them so we could pull a data sheet? I would expect the smaller fuses like this to be 10KA at best for both AC and DC. The markings are a good start but don't tell the whole story. In the following picture, there are five fuses. The four in the case are marked CSA, UL and CE but are not rated to break 10KA at 1KVAC and DC like the other part.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 05:14:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 25, 2018, 04:52:09 pmThere's nothing at all on the fuse body. The only other mark on the fuse caps is a plain capital H inside a circle.The manual simply says "replace with fuse of similar type".

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 05:30:17 pm
content: Nothing on the face? I've seen them marked there as well. Gets a little more difficult. Really, you should be able to pull the report for your fuses just like you would the meter. Seems like to have it certified, they would have needed these reports to show the fuse was certified or they would have had to test it, somehow.. I want to see that test!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 08:31:41 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 25, 2018, 05:30:17 pmNope.Quote from: joeqsmith on February 25, 2018, 05:30:17 pmApparently they kept that info between themselves and TUV.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 09:46:08 am
content: Ok, browsed the Certipedia of TUV Rheinland for more info. The certificate for the Lidl PDM 300 B1 is "GS-Mark Approval".So what other meters have this certificate?A lot, for example the well known Uni-trend Technology(China) Limited UT61A/B/C/D/E (all on one certificate) with certificate number 50321058.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 26, 2018, 08:31:41 amI am almost 100% sure the test report is not public but, at the port of entry, an authority may request a copy to the freight forwarder or import agent, which in turn requests this from the manufacturer.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: markce on February 26, 2018, 09:46:08 amInteresting, as I don't recall seeing UT61s other than the "E" variant with such marks. Perhaps others may have seen them in the wild.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:37:59 pm
content: There's an EU spec UT61E available which has different protection circuits. Costs a lot more. Conrad in EU and Rapid in UK sell them.Edit: turns out they don't sell them any more. Discontinued!

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 04:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 26, 2018, 02:29:50 pmI have a UT61D with GS and TÜV.https://www.kjell.com/se/sortiment/el-verktyg/matinstrument/multimetrar/uni-t-ut61d-multimeter-p48273

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 04:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 26, 2018, 02:27:58 pmI'm not 100% sure where the LIDL meter is manufactured, there's no definite "made in XXXX" marking on it.In the manual it says manufactured by Targa GmBH but thetarga.dewebsite is a bit weird. A lot of hippy newage feelgood stuff and a shop where you can buy spares for your LIDL electronic gadgets.I'm not complaining about LIDL providing spares, that's a really good thing, but they don't seem like manufacturers.Looks like we're getting more tools next week but not the disk sanders.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 04:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: Gromitt on February 26, 2018, 04:11:30 pmThere's some photo comparisons of the internals happening in the other thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-ut61e-multimeter-teardown-photos/msg1437056/#msg1437056

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 05:32:08 pm
content: QuoteThe PCB is marked All-Sun which is a Chinese manufacturer of a large collection of multimeters. Apparently does specials for customers, same as Mastech. The TUV certificate is issued by TUV Rheinland, Shenzhen.Targa Gmbh is a German registered company located in Soest, Germany. It has an office in Shenzhen.

author: Candid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:12:59 pm
content: Targa GmbH only seemes to be a company that labels products and imports them to Germany in big quantities for placing them at Lidl, Aldi and so on. And if you want to do this the imported products need to fulfill local/european law. So they make contracts with producers of relevant products that include conditions of local seal of approvals. The big players cannot go around this, when you order directly as privat person from chines sellers at A*iexpress and so on you can get around this (and risk your life from time to time with some products).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 04:26:40 pm
content: I made a followup Q&A video:TLDR version:a) How to look up a safety certificate (hi, bitwelder)b) Markings on fuses (hi, joe)c) A look at input jack strength based on a Youtube commentd) Who makes it? (All-Sun, China)

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2018, 06:33:39 am
content: This week the meter is available in LIDL Finland:

author: TuxKey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 03:32:15 pm
content: have to say thanks for your review..just ordered this on the lidl shop.In your review you did say that the probes were not that good.. that one could not remove the protection caps to do precision work on electronics (sorry just a noob)was thinking of getting these from banggood..https://www.banggood.com/P1300A-10-in-1-Super-Multimeter-Probe-Replaceable-Probe-Clamp-Multi-Meter-Test-Lead-kits-p-1136463.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CNthere are cheaper ones on there for $2,66 and this one is $6,66 normal price $8,52 but the description says silicone wire.and the reviews point towards the same..So i think i'm getting these in a few days ...only question is will they fit.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 03:50:59 pm
content: Quote from: TuxKey on April 23, 2018, 03:32:15 pmThe leads are definitely a weak point of the meter. The tip covers make it difficult to measure components that aren't soldered down.Quote from: TuxKey on April 23, 2018, 03:32:15 pmI don't think you'll have any problems with the fit. The meter accepts some of my more "difficult" leads, no problemI'm not usually a fan of modular leads for daily use as they can come unscrewed as you use them but those have plenty of good reviews. Let us know how you get on.

author: TuxKey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 04:13:41 pm
content: good one about the modular leads i did find these that seem of equal to perhaps even better quality..https://www.banggood.com/P1300A-10-in-1-Super-Multimeter-Probe-Replaceable-Probe-Clamp-Multi-Meter-Test-Lead-kits-p-1136463.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CNbasically same price but without all the doodads hahahahthey even mention a CE cert.. i watched your 2e update vid will see if i can find a cert number ..this is what one reviewer had to say: (translation from french)Great ! high quality touch points for multimeters or others. Removable cap on the terminals on the meter side and on the tips leaving only the end (3mm) or all the tip protruding by removing them. Strong point of these cables, the length of 120 cm (except points of touch) and especially REAL SILICONE cables 18 awg hypers-flexible and resistant to 150 °, in short, the best cables that I have found until now,Thanks for your help..appreciate it.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 04:58:13 pm
content: Quote from: TuxKey on April 23, 2018, 04:13:41 pmThose modular leads are perfectly fine I have them as well and the tips can be unscrewed and very sharp points screwed to pierce cables to aid measurements.From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 05:29:33 pm
content: Folks! Tell me pleaseWhy You interested in 40 years old design rated $20 now? I have no ideaIt is actually looks like a crap $2 ICL7106-based meter in big red caseit is time Now for DTM0660-based 6000-counts autorange meters for same $20 and build quality like an8002 etc.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 05:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 05:29:33 pmThe meters you refer to are certified by by any world class standards so while they will work OK, they are NOT rated for short-circuit protection or high voltage protection.From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 05:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on April 23, 2018, 05:33:42 pmAny ICL7106-based meters are NOT safe by design. LIDL too

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 06:12:09 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 05:41:23 pmSorry, but that is nonsense; the 7106 device has nothing to do with safety.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 06:12:48 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 05:29:33 pma) Some people might not be able to order from China.b) It's CAT III rated, they might want to measure mains once in a while.c) It has a 3 year warranty, how many years did you get with your Chinese meter?d) ... (use imagination here)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 06:14:57 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 05:41:23 pmMaybe you could call TUV and explain your theory.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 06:18:20 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 05:41:23 pmSo that means then that your saying the certification on this meter is a fake then because it is dangerous are you? Perhaps this might persuade you to change your mind or you are more then welcome to take up the matter directly with testing house and the German Standards agency, here is a link to the actual testing certificate for that Lidl meterhttps://www.certipedia.com/certificates/50366474?locale=enand also our own Fungus has done a you tube review of this meter which can be found hereand here

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 06:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 23, 2018, 06:12:48 pmd) its design is empirically proven to keep its accuracy for quite a long term - it is not uncommon to see 20, 30 year-old meters without much deviatione) schematics and reference designs are all over the internet, which helps with experimentation and repairsf) you can buy a replacement 7106 (if not a chip on board)

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 07:42:47 pm
content: ICL7106 is not foolproof deviceYou can fry it with voltage measurings at ohms and mA range, You can discharge battery to zero (no autooff), readings depends from supply voltage etcTUV and guarantee is only paper, isn`t it?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 07:59:05 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 07:42:47 pma) That's why they add "input protection" to multimeters.b) No, you can't fry it on mA range within the CAT rated voltage - current measurement doesn't work that way.Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 07:42:47 pmIn my video I connected it to 230V AC on all ranges except amps.(there didn't seem much point in blowing fuses on the amps ranges, it doesn't prove anything)It wasn't faked, either, I really did it!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 08:07:19 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 23, 2018, 07:42:47 pmIf you watch the videos that Fungus did, he tested 240vac straight on the ohms range and no problems, do you always doubt everything that has been certified by a government body such as GS and TUV then? A birth certificate etc is only a piece of paper isn't it? You have to take some things in life at face value, don't forget that Lidl would be in so much deep shit if they had those meters all printed up with a fake certification, it just doesn't add up, I'm afraid that you're on your own on this, the evidence is just too over whelming that this meter has been subjected to the tests as described and has passed with flying colours. Granted it isn't a Fluke, or Agilent etc but it's NOT trying to pass it self off as one either, it only has the lowest rating applicable which is perfect for the average householder/hobbyist, not suitable for professional use above 300V as it states.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 08:28:51 pm
content: QuoteNeither is a DTM0660.In fact, any device can be destroyed if you put too many volts into itQuoteThe point of TUV and UL is to guarantee the safety of the device because they have performed tests to verify safety. If you do not trust them, I suggest you buy half a dozen dmms and a couple hundred thousand in test equipment and test the dmms for safety yourself.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 10:42:06 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on April 23, 2018, 08:07:19 pmIn the outlaw countries we piss on sertificate papers. Only Fluke is good enough and few newest china bargains too

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 11:08:11 pm
content: Well seeing as you mentioned piss, is this a big piss take? A ladder instance has a maximum load it can take safely, do accept the stated loading of a ladder or do you doubt it and classify as a dangerous ladder because you just cannot accept that is capable taking a stated load, despite a certificate from a test laboratory stating that the ladder has successfully passed the tests for stated loading

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 02:32:01 am
content: Well, the fact the people in your country have a bad perception of accredited certification agencies does not detract from the safety of an equipment.I come from an "outlaw" country (I prefer to call peripheric) where certificates used to be worth less than the paper they were printed. However, with the beginning of imports in the 1990s and the advent of internet, people started to get educated and learned something about other brands, certification agencies, tests, etc.

author: TuxKey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 09:40:25 am
content: after looking around and several multi meter probes test leads i feel likeyah banging my head on a wall..ahhaawhy can't life just be simple good affordable probes and be done with it....hearing Dave talk about the importance of gold plated probes i thought why not grab a set..it's not like $17 to $30 is going to kill me even if i was paying that for a $19 meter..if the probes make or brake the meterhttps://youtu.be/uV9mW0rpRxgthere i was looking on the Probe Master page.. And thinking they do look good..http://probemaster.com/8000-series-standard/Spend $30 with free shipping and bob's you're uncle (right Dave)...NOT EU is you master so no go for us in the EUi would have to pay $40 + $14,29 shipping and 21% vat and 11% customs fees.. damm.. living in EU sucks..Think i'l stick wit the leads that come with the meter..or buy these cheap ones from banggood.https://www.banggood.com/Ultra-Pointed-Gold-Plated-Copper-10A-Multimeter-Probes-Test-Leads-p-986857.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNbtw looked on amazon Germany .. stores here in The Netherlands.. the here they only sell cheap Chinese ones like they where something else..grrrahahaha ..

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 09:44:30 am
content: These are highly recommended:https://www.ebay.com/itm/171162377470(and the seller is an EEVBLOG member AFAIK).

author: TuxKey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 10:08:26 am
content: Thanks these look nice..And cost more then my multi-meter ahahhha Just funny...but i rather spend a bit more and get good probes that will last me a life time..Also i just started on this forum and learned so much...so would be nice to buy from a member.looking at other stuff from his store..$2 shipping sounds good.

author: TuxKey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 10:29:07 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 24, 2018, 09:44:30 amthink i need any of these gold plated attachments ?https://www.ebay.com/itm/171243956885https://www.ebay.com/itm/171302315753btw do the bana plugs serve as a connection for these guys?? (also seem handy to have)https://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Silicone-Test-Leads-with-Sprung-Hooks-and-Female-Banana-Connectors-1-Pair-/201358533333i know it depends on what i plan to do with it.. for now i'm starting to build diy kits starting to learn about electronics.and assembling building my own mechanical keyboards.. my new hobby aka midlife crises thing i guess..

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 11:21:38 am
content: Quote from: TuxKey on April 24, 2018, 10:29:07 amI think those probes come with the banana adapter. Look at the second photo in the listing.

author: Candid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 12:00:55 pm
content: Quote from: TuxKey on April 24, 2018, 09:40:25 amI found another good source in Europe (Germany) for Brymen and Probemaster:https://www.welectron.com/Test-LeadsEDIT (old message):11% customs? In Germany you "only" would have to pay additional 19% VAT on the complete costs (product price + shipping) for all that is less than about 150 EUR total costs (see below).You may order them from England:https://simonselectronics.co.uk/1x 8017S Probe Master Fixed point 48" 90 deg shrouded plug £25.00 + Shipping flat £12.00 what currently is round about 43,- EUROr get the Brymens from Franky for only 15 EUR through eBay (you need to order the gold plated attachments separately! So it was for me even that they are on one of the pictures but you may ask him before you order). They are really well and will go without any further costs through the customs. I bought several times from Franky.The Probemasters are my absolute favorite. I bought them directly from Probemaster with several attachments. Including postage and customs a somewhat expensive deal for German customers because you will get over the magic 26 EUR (no additional fees) including costs for shipping."See below" section ;-):If total costs (products + shipping) are more than 150 EUR it depends on the products you bought if there is to pay "only" local VAT or additional customs fee. If the total costs are less than 150 EUR you only pay VAT.In the Netherlands it should be similiar or equal to Germany. Check the TARIC database for this:http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=enFor example for the 121GW I had to pay additional 19% (only local VAT) in Germany because for product code 90303200 there is no additional customs to pay than VAT. And so it should be for the leads you are looking for.

author: OE2WHP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 12:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on February 08, 2018, 09:59:40 amThese ones are listetd multiple times under different brand names on the RAPEX database for safety reasons:https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers_safety/safety_products/rapex/alerts/?event=viewProduct&reference=A12/1277/13

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 03:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: OE2WHP on April 24, 2018, 12:33:16 pmThis meter has been discussed before and dismissed, it is not suitable really for anything other than very occasional use in an emergency situation on very low energy circuits, ie measuring resistance.It also, unlike the meter from Lidl has not passed any safety tests, why? Because I guess the fact it appears on Rapex database that has some series design flaws and has already been proven to be dangerous and for all we know, may have been submitted for testing like the Lidl meter and failed the most basic test of all, that of insulation.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 05:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on April 24, 2018, 03:47:21 pmNope. Testing costs a lot of money. Submitting those meters for testing would be like flushing money down the toilet.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 05:47:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 24, 2018, 05:19:58 pmThat was what I thought but wasn't sure.

author: OE2WHP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 05:57:31 pm
content: The fact that it appears in the RAPEX DB tells that it does not meet the legal minimum requirements regarding safety standards for this kind of products.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 06:01:11 pm
content: Quote from: OE2WHP on April 24, 2018, 05:57:31 pmWhy the hell doesn't someone do something about removing this type of dangerous product of the market?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 06:36:20 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on April 24, 2018, 03:47:21 pmI disagree with your point here. In the countless discussions around here about the DT830 (or M830B) and its variants, several people (including me) completely agree that you shouldn't use it on high energy circuits (even mains outlets, although with some dissonant voices). However, it is a good and affordable solution for low power electronics and neither only to be used in an emergency nor for resistance measurements.As I mentioned inthe other thread, the major detracting factor for the countless variants and manufacturers of these meters is both the wide variance in production quality and the bogus claims of safety. If you have a reliable manufacturer with honest specs, the meter is ok.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2018, 06:47:32 pm
content: QuoteLook at the rapex alert carefully!It may not be for all dmms with model number DT830. It is for a spcific brand, batch number and the packaging is marked 6163While some DT830 on the market may also be dangerous, not all are the same.Some may even be non leathal