Create a user class by test - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fried Chicken
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 01:27:18 am
content: What if the forum had a user class feature, where you had to pass a certain test to prove you know your salt?This would help others know if the advice they're getting is valid or garbage.Could have something like "EEVBlog Certified Electronics Repair Guru""Circuit Theory Expert"Things like that.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 05:33:13 am
content: QuoteI've never seen that kind of credential work as desired.The truly expert seldom feel the need to prove themselves by someone else's metrics, and the less skilled "learn to the test" to claim an expertise they don't actually have the experience to back up.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 05:48:28 am
content: Yeah, this has been tried in many ways on many other sites and rarely ever works. It may appear to work for a short time but people will game the system, or chaos otherwise takes over.Reputation is something earned over time, and even then someone who has a great reputation in one area may lack pretty key knowledge in other areas. If you are curious about someones expertise, then look at their past posts and how people responded to them.I have worked in IT for ~40 years, but it is incredibly hard to keep up with the latest tech. The same is true in some areas of electronics, but other areas have changed little in decades due to physics. I am very much a generalist in electronics, but I specialize in embedded systems/IoT - but even then I know I lack experience in so many areas, FPGA and DSP come to mind, as well as massive scale IoT.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 05:54:23 am
content: Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 01:27:18 amWe seem to have had a similar thread and poll, here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/designated-expert-forum-users/msg4008208/#msg4008208The outcome, was basically 'No' to it (specifically "I don't like it", poll option was favorite). I.e. Keep things as they are.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 06:02:16 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on February 03, 2025, 05:54:23 amI thought the idea sounded familiar.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 08:00:43 am
content: It would certainly drive me away. On my age and with my condition I don't feel the need to take some test to prove what I'm worth.And like others stated it won't mean anything, unless the test would be taken on a face to face level with supervision to make sure things are not rigged.On this forum there are enough capable members around that correct others when something is wrong, and misinformation dies out soon that way.

author: Fried Chicken
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 09:20:11 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on February 03, 2025, 05:33:13 amThis occurred to me after I wrote it: it would take quite a bit of overhead to administer something like this w/o cheating or, as you said, "learn the test".Quote from: Kean on February 03, 2025, 05:48:28 amWell that's why I thought it a good idea to not have it be a generic "smart person", but rather over various specific areas. The idea would be to avoid the ego, but rather let the forum know in a standardized way what someones strengths/knowledge/credibility are.So many times I've asked questions in online communities/forums/whatever about a topic I'm unfamiliar with and been inundated by hyper-enthusiastic lunatics who insist their answers are right, or are only quoting truths they've read elsewhere online, without understanding their meaning. The "real experts" often get drowned in this noise and, frankly, have no reason to stand up to that. Independent credentialing would be a huge boon to solve that issue. I've found this forum is one of the best for not having egomaniac lunatics.Someone's reputation on a forum wouldn't help a novice asking a question, because... they don't have the knowledge/insight/familiarity to recognize someone's reputation.Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 03, 2025, 08:00:43 amWell, you're exactly the type of person this would benefit. It would save you arguing with a proud idiot. Plus, think of the flip side: if you're an expert in a field, you don't need to run hoops trying to build a reputation (when you really don't have that time anyway).QuoteLike I mentioned above, this occurred to me right after I wrote the post: it would be difficult to implement in a way that everyone respects/wouldn't be gamed.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 09:31:06 am
content: Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 09:20:11 amYou do have a point here. But they can always look at someones profile and decide if the ratio between the number of posts and thanked posts has some bearing.It is not a proper measure of someones credibility, but when the ratio is very low, one can draw a bit of a conclusion.Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 09:20:11 amI have learned to just walk away in such situations.I also doubt that it will make any difference in the idiots mind if I'm credited or not.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 09:38:19 am
content: Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 01:27:18 amThe only way to know is to test the advice.To find out the context in which the suggestion or criticism is given, you have to look at the members' past posts within the relevant sub-forums. (Some of us do like our cat or dog pictures, and they're allowed for historical reason even though out of the forum focus, so please ignore those. And because of those, even the Thanked counts you can see in profiles are useless for any purpose. You need to read the threads to determine the meaning of each Thanks; they vary at least from "Nice!" to "I agree" to "I think this is useful" to "This helped me", probably more.)Pay particular attention to howtheyrespond to criticism or follow-up questions: if they vanish or ignore or get mad, the advice is Given As Holy Truth, and you can expect the same kind of response if your testing indicates an issue in the advice. If they acknowledge their errors, or point out the technical reason they differ in the point regarding the criticism, they can rationally discuss topics in a mutually useful manner. Then, you just have to read some of the past threads they posted advice to, to evaluate whether it was useful –– regardless of what the asker ended up going with, because often, with a detailed technical discussion, it is the original question that is found to be wrong, and theactualsolution solves the underlying/different problem, the one the asker didn't realize they had, instead.It is a lot of reading, but that is the nature of narrow-bandwidth linear information. We make many of those decisions unconsciously in real life, using body cues, but here, we're limited to what one has written. (And occasional videos by Dave and some other members.) Even a telepath could not solve this for us, because those who are the most wrong, are often the most convinced they are right. (This is called theDunning–Kruger effect.)Finally, do not let verbosity fool you into thinking someone knows what they're writing. It is just a style, that's all. (Or in my own case, affliction I cannot seem to get rid of, even though I try.) And don't confuse humility with insecurity or subservience: for some of us, it is a courtesy and a practice in self-control.Then again, I could be utterly wrong here; I often am. Sometimes embarrassingly so.

author: Fried Chicken
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 09:41:31 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 03, 2025, 09:31:06 amThat's somewhat what created the hivemind disease. Also it doesn't solve the problem of the overenthusiast: someone very enthusiastic about a topic, as a billion posts (where inevitably there will be thanks), but isn't an expert (as much as they want to be)QuoteWell that's exactly it, right? A novice comes in asking a question, a bunch of lunatics give stupid answers, and disagree/mudsling with your expert opinion. You walk out b/c you have no interest, and now the novice is only reading "expert" advice from the idiot lunatics.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 10:02:00 am
content: Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 09:41:31 amAnd? Thatiswhat happens in real life, too.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 10:02:53 am
content: Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 09:41:31 amThat is not exactly what I do. I just ignore the idiots, but try to continue providing help to the novice, or keep participating in the thread. It is not easy, but works.We had such a case just recently with the now banned member Postal2. At first I tried to prove him wrong and persuade him to leave the thread, (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/please-recommend-a-vga-to-parallel-lcd-board-or-ic/msg5754437/#msg5754437) but he just kept on going and becoming personal. I did not respond to his provocations anymore, but I and others reported him. He was then benched for a while, but came back and started pestering member peter-h.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/mystery-process-adding-options-rotate-to-resolv-conf-file/msg5782181/#msg5782181He was again reported by some members and that got him banned.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 10:18:15 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 03, 2025, 10:02:53 amI disagree (on the "it [..] works" part), but only because whether it works depends on the person. (I find it too difficult to clamor for attention among idiots.)Really, I see the only sustainable solution is to teach the novices to examine the advice given critically from the get go. That way,theycan filter out/ignore most of the idiots, and not just stand there like a princess waiting for princes to fight it out, to see who gets to help. It becomes anusagainstbad advicefight, and that fight is easy for others to join, by simply elaborating on the suggested solutions and their pros and cons. You see it occasionally here, when early on a thread doesn't go anywhere, but then a sensible post triggers other sensible posts and saves the thread.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2025, 10:35:48 am
content: we may not avoid a metric ... AI will give us all a "description" so other users will see what they're likely to get from us

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 02:38:27 pm
content: Quote from: Fried Chicken on February 03, 2025, 01:27:18 amWasn't kiriakos-GR advocating something similar? I thought they wanted your formal education/background published. I tried to search for it but no luck. Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 07:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 05, 2025, 02:38:27 pmI think that years of working experience in the field has a lot more weight than ones formal education.Way back I was working for a foundation in music electronics stuff and they also did internships for "HTS" students. (HTS stands for "hogere technische school", higher technical education, but not university level) These students were close to graduation but knew little about how to practically get things done. Some could not even whip up a simple linear power supply with a LM7805.I certainly learned a lot during my working years, and still learn new things.

author: Fried Chicken
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 03:14:02 am
content: Ego aside, it could tell everyone thespecificfield of specialty.Electrician is not the same as electrical engineer, is not the same as physicist; analog is not the same as digital. A brilliant analog circuit designer doesn't make them a logic guru.It's not necessarily about saying who is noob and who is pro.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 11:46:58 am
content: I don't think a formal "qualification" or validation is needed, or even a good idea, in the informal context of a technical forum. Some users may have relevant formal training but tend to give sloppy and superficial, or opinionated and dogmatic advice. Other users may lack a formal degree but nevertheless bring a lot of practical experience plus the willingness to think about a question and answer it in a diligent and differentiated way.A user's ratio of "thanked" posts does give some indication of the quality of responses you can expect. It's not perfect since "thanks" may also indicate support for an opinion rather than for a technical assessment. It is also distorted by some informal "mutual appreciation groups" which have emerged. But still, it gives some idea how often a user's posts are deemed worthwhile.Otherwise, most questions and threads get the benefit of more than one opinion, and off-the-wall advice rarely goes unchallenged. When faced with conflicting suggestions, one can ask follow-up questions, look at the contributors' other posts, check information outside of this forum, and apply general common sense.That works well enough for me -- and I don't see that a "verified expert" status on the forum would be required, or could be made to work in a meaningful way.