Newbie PCB production - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: davelectronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 07:20:27 am
content: For a long time know I have wanted to move on to making my own pcb's for projects. After some research, i quite like the idea of the laser jet printer and the glossy paper method. The things I'm uncertain of is the software to use that's suitable for a beginner, and which printer will do that transfer method reliably. Also I've not much space for chemicals etc, I have looked at the lower end equipment for PCB production, and that option isn't something I'd want to rush out and buy.And just another uncertainty is my ability to map out the circuit in software, I'm familiar with stripboard techniques, although I do make the odd mistake, like overlooking to break a track or solder bridge, silly mistakes once I've spotted it. I suppose it's confidence having a go at this process. I'm good with chassis wiring and case / enclosure design, but uncertain of my ability with mapping out a circuit in software, then taking it to PCB copper clad boards. I can't think of anything more frustrating than mapping out a circuit, getting it on the copper clad board, using the ferric chloride, only to realise you've stuffed it up in software. Any pointers or tips appreciated. Although I'm uncertain of my software art design ability, I'd still really like to try it out.Thanks for reading.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 07:45:15 am
content: If you stuff it up you have to do it again. I don’t think I’ve ever got one right first time in the last 30 years or so. Takes me three boards at average before I’m happy.If you’re going to do toner transfer, get some toner transfer paper from amazon. It works better than magazines and doesn’t stuff up your printer. But really it’s probably better to throw the design at JLCPCB than invest in your own board manufacturing up front these days. You can get really decent quality 2 and 4 layer boards for virtually nothing.

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 09:38:40 am
content: hi,well for large pitch anything hobby-like may be fine, but when you need fine pitch for small components, hobby is not a reasonable choice, go with jlpcb (or anything you like) and wait for deliver.the quality will be totally different. those days even hobbysts will have to 'go small'regards, pierre

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 09:52:50 am
content: IMHO Don't even consider making your own!Layout your own PCB using either KiCAD or DipTraceSend to Electrow, JLCPCB or PCBWay

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 11:39:42 am
content: Quote from: davelectronic on October 19, 2020, 07:20:27 amThe printer is the big question mark. Brother lasers categorically don’t work for PCB transfer. Other brands vary wildly. Consensus is that old lasers work best, but IMHO that’s not a viable long-term solution. (There’s a big thread on this very topic — modern printers for PCB transfer — but no solutions have been forthcoming.)The other thing that is mandatory for a good transfer is a laminator. A clothes iron will NOT produce reliable output. Bear in mind that many laminators must be modified to accept the thickness of a PCB. I suggest doing what I did: get a secondhand heavy-duty office model. (I got mine for $2 from the local classifieds!)With the right printer, a laminator, and a good process (get the copper impeccably clean and scrubbed, degrease thoroughly, don’t touch with bare hands, etc), you can produce excellent results. I did a few boards for 5050 LEDs and had no trouble whatsoever with 0.25mm traces.But is it worth the trouble? Errr... I did it for the instant gratification and the fun of tinkering with the process.But if the Chinese PCB makers have cheap shipping to your country, and you don’t need the boardimmediately, they make more sense.Quote from: davelectronic on October 19, 2020, 07:20:27 amThe process works like this: first you draw your schematic. This is where the burden of getting it right falls solely on you, so take your time and triple check everything. Once your schematic is done, you create the PCB. The software will understand (based on the schematic) which part pins need to connect, and shows this as the “rats nest” — lines directly connecting the pads that need to be joined by a trace. As you draw in those traces, the rats nest lines go away. When no rats nest is left, you’ve wired all the components. Of course, it’s up to you to wire them in ways that make sense, and to put components where they make sense and lend themselves to good routing. You may find, as I do, that it’s helpful to lay out the PCB twice: the first time as a trial run to discover what works and what doesn’t, and the second time to do it according to those insights, as it is often faster to start from scratch than to modify the trial run. Either way, the software prevents you from forgetting connections and from connecting things that aren’t meant to be connected. There are also rules you can configure to enforce your design needs. (“DRC” - design rule checking.) For example, you can tell it your PCB maker’s minimum tolerances so you don’t make traces too small and too close. Or that a particular net (a connection in your schematic) needs extra thick traces because it carries high current.If you’ve never used PCB layout software, I highly recommend starting with EasyEDA. It’s web based and free, and IMHO it really is the easiest one. It doesn’t have every feature, but the basics are solid. And it has a huge ready-to-use component library, which is a HUGE problem on other tools. And if you outgrow it, the transition to a more complex tool is MUCH easier than if you’d used the complex tool from the get-go. (EasyEDA is made by LCSC, the same company as JLCPCB, so it ties into the LCSC component library, and makes it super easy to order the board from JLCPCB. But you can use other components and PCB vendors too.)Kicad’s PCB layouter is great, but the schematic designer is frustrating.Eagle made me want to gouge out my eyes with a rusty railroad tie.Altium is what I use at work — EasyEDA is in many ways modeled on Altium (but with far less complexity), so upgrading from EasyEDA to Altium was really easy. At first I hated it, but it’s really grown on me as I’ve figured out the tips and tricks. But unless you can get it from work or through school (I think you can get a free license just by being a student), it’s hella expensive.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 11:55:52 am
content: Just a point. You *can* do it if you want but I tend to do small and simple things. This is a test fixture for MAV-11's I bought from China to see if they were genuine or not:That was transfer film + clothes iron + ferric chloride. I wouldn't do anything complex or that requires drilling holes which is a PITA.

author: davelectronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 07:35:59 am
content: Thanks for your replys, I hadn't realised the laser printer model was that critical for this purpose. I had seen the JLB PCB advertisements for producing boards, as I've yet to put a circuit together via a custom PCB using software, not sure I'd use that route first straight off the bat. Probably lack of confidence in my ability to get it right. I'm ok with technical hardware procedures, it my ability using software that might have a few hiccups. Guess I've got to embrace"Windows" as I doubt the software programs run on Linux, my favourite OS. Looking at a supplier of electronic components and tools in the UK, I see they've discontinued a lot of PCB production equipment they use to stock. They still have the UV unit, but only a small unit though. I suppose it comes down to cost for making your own PCB designs, I'd like to give it a go. Years ago the only thing I can ossociate the process with, is that of processing your own photography work in the darkroom, only as a DIY step to reaching the means to an end. Quite a bit of what I would put together in a custom PCB would be power supply circuits, and a far bit of high current trace layouts in any design I put together. Is there a popular laser printer out the that you'd recommend ? Or is it just tast it and see. I'm sure I'd like to give your own processing of PCB a try.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 09:15:19 am
content: I use Kicad (on windows) but it runs on Linux fine:https://kicad-pcb.org/... I did this yesterday with it and ordered 5 boards including delivery for £8.89 from JLCPCB:If you're doing power supply circuits you can specify 4oz copper at JLCPCB for some additional cost. If you're doing it yourself, the old way of running extra solder works pretty well on the boards.WRT UV stuff, keep a look out on ebay for UV exposure boxes as they do turn up here for not much.WRT printers, I use an HP LaserJet Pro M148 and that works nicely. Brother ones apparently don't work but I haven't tried it.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 09:25:26 am
content: Check out...https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy2022BX6EspFAKBCgRuEuzapuz_4aJCn&pbjreload=102This is a small tutorial for using KiCAD to get to manufacture... a run of 5 boards will cost you very very little (shop around to minimise P&P costs)By getting it done professionally you avoid drilling and working around a lack of vias... that's enough for me to not even consider making my own.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 01:24:29 am
content: QuoteEagle has options for doing this. On the print page, you wanna check "black" and for the top copper layer you wanna check "mirror."For some other PCB CAD softwares, you might have to get creative. E.g., you can print to PDF, then flip the image with a PDF editor.I feel like most printers work for toner transfer. I had a Brother that used high temp toner that wouldn't fuse. But most of the modern Brother printers are vanilla and should work.

author: davelectronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 02:00:49 am
content: Well I've installed W10 on my main pc, its really a gaming pc, but i don't game period. So my first stop should be getting to grips with the software, i'm a hardware guy through and through, stick me in a machine shop and i'll make to the brief spec. Software....Ok i will give it a go, but a have a vision of much magic smoke appearing, that's the only thing with sending files off for production, it s got to be 100% right. If i stuff a board up, as in magic smoke, and i used the printer method no one will knowBut off to production could end in an epic fail. Thank you for the reply's and suggestion's, a lot of stuff you've already mentioned i had no idea about. But this is a bucket list thing, and i've only copper stripboard up until now. PCB production just seems to be the final piece of the puzzle for me. I will surely check out the software programs you have mentioned.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 05:27:08 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on October 21, 2020, 01:24:29 amI have yet to encounter a PCB layout program that doesn’t have the option to mirror the output.Consensus is overwhelming that the choice of printer is critical, and that the percentage of new printers that work keeps dwindling. You’re the first and only person I’veeverseen say that any Brother works. Do you have a model number? The one I tried at work did not work. (I don’t think it’s high-temp.)The B&W Kyoceras at work produce blurry output on transfer paper. The color Kyocera (the big workgroup machine) didn’t fully transfer onto the paper, catching the rest of the toner on the next sheet of paper...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 06:24:41 am
content: Quote from: davelectronic on October 21, 2020, 02:00:49 amOn the getting it right thing, something I did:1. ordered boards2. realised I've made a mistake almost immediately3. cursed loudly4. ordered some fixed boards5. When the wrong boards arrived, immediately stuff one.6. Spent an entire day debugging it wondering why it's not working7. Correct boards arrive next day, reminding me what an idiot I amAlso there's the "I forgot to check the SMA footprints" variety of cock up:All these errors have been written down carefully in OneNote and turned into a checklist which is actually saving a lot of trouble now. Make sure you start writing these things down so you don't hurt yourself twice with the same issue.

author: austfox
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 07:14:08 am
content: Seems a lot of people are against making their own boards. I’d say do it, but not if the intention is to save money, that usually won’t work out. Do it because it is part of your hobby and you enjoy it.I have had limited luck with the toner transfer method (I was using Brother printers) and a variety of different films / papers. I tried another brand of printer (can’t recall, maybe a Fujitsu) but still no luck. It was probably more to do with the fact that my bare copper was not clean enough.I switched to Kinsten boards (presensitised) and had much more reliable results.

author: davelectronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 02:15:58 pm
content: Yes it was primarily for the fun of the hobby, I'm not looking to save money by trying my own PCB design production. A lot of tips and suggestions, thank you for all those. I will research the printer option, as in as much what printer model is suitable, even if it's an old model printer I can find. The last you tube video I watched on this homebrew technique was MR Carlson's lab, where he produced a psu board for replacement in a bench supply I think. Software is not my strong point, but definitely going to try something. Just rounds off the project process.

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 02:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: davelectronic on October 19, 2020, 07:20:27 amThe important thing is not to forget to run the ERC (electrical rules check) and clean the schematic from all ERC errors/warnings before switching to the PCB layout editor. It won't guarantee success but will help a lot to detect obvious errors like missing connections etc.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 03:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: austfox on October 21, 2020, 07:14:08 amI was first writing how it happens inside the machine and then realised you are not changing the ink.It's then mainly how black is black first.One could guess that after canvas it's generally fine and economy stuff of the machine that are important.And then how ink is reacting with chemicals.Something to do with the plate surface also, like is grinding a must or not.Xerographic has generally two basic methods, positive and negative.If that changes ink properties somehow then use only the better one.No idea what kind of a chaos finding those machines would be, it's finally quite centralised industry.Anybody tried those small name tag carving machines?Nowadays it of course could be a Dremel and unfinished 3D-printer.Or modified vinyl cutter with pressured drill bit.But still, after all the fuzz, you're still stuck with a single sided board and without through hole rivets.Better do a good installation with minimal redo.For notes,I'm good at doing them, bad at doing them long enough.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 07:06:44 pm
content: QuoteNo, I never bought/owned more than one model of Brother printer. I have read of other peoples' success with Brother printers, though. On this forum.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/toner-transfer-printer/msg1559131/#msg1559131I replaced the toner with generic toner, and it worked perfectly fine for toner transfer. But the toner gradually degraded the printer drum and print quality went to hell by the end of that refill. So any printer which can use generic toner refills has a pretty good chance of working. (Of course the generic toner seller listed my Brother model as compatible, so you can't trust these guys to do their due diligence).My printer was the HL2070 and took the TN-350 cartridge, IIRC. If you look up the MSDS you will see it's different from most of their toner cartridges. Unless things changed that much in the last decade.QuoteYou're way ahead of my curve. I only know how to use 2, and the one that doesn't have this option is ExpressPCB. I discovered on some printers, you can mirror the image in the driver. Something "script" then you find the box for mirror. But some printers don't have that option, and I used a PDF printer to do the job.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 07:19:46 pm
content: FWIW to the OP, I use an HP Laserjet 1102w, now. It lays the toner on a little thick, and I have to pre-etch the boards to soak up all the toner. Else it will squish around and fatten and distort the traces.Apparently, many of the modern printers don't lay on as much toner, and this won't happen. But then you get the opposite problem of getting pin holes in solid pours. Some people use a foil layer to top the toner layer, to get solid fills. With my printer and technique, I don't need to do this.I order $ thousands of commercial PCB a year, and I still make my own boards, as well. I can do 8/8 boards with 99.99% reliability. I get the result on the first try, basically every time. Even if I haven't made a board in a year.HP1102wPulsar transfer paper. It's dextrin-coated, and you just soak it in water for 10 seconds then peel it off.pre-etch the board to give it porosity/texturetransfer with laminator, plus a heat gun on full blast on the board as it goes into the laminatorproper etchant; acid peroxide gives inferior results in standard thickness or beyond, although it's pretty much fine on 1/2 oz copper.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 12:48:28 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on October 21, 2020, 07:06:44 pmI’ll look at that thread again.As for ExpressPCB: that is a crazy oversight on their part!!!As for mirroring: as a Mac user, it boggles my mind that mirroring is still a feature that in Windows is provided by the print driver. On the Mac, mirroring is one of a number of layout options provided by the OS, independent of the application and the printer driver. I bumped into that limitation on windows myself not long ago: I wanted to try doing toner transfer of a nameplate silkscreen onto aluminum. I had simply done a mock-up in Word to see if the toner transfer would work. And then discovered that while the driver has a checkbox to mirror the printout, it’s permanently grayed out because Kyocera only supports mirroring with one particular page description language (which must be selected during printer configuration), but the IT department had selected another language, meaning that the mirroring option isn’t available. I even have local admin rights, but there’s no way to change it locally, since the printer is managed.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2020, 08:58:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 22, 2020, 12:48:28 amAdobe Photoshop will help you out

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 02:22:33 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 23, 2020, 08:58:08 pmTalk about suggesting the wrong tool for the job...Plus, I shouldn’t have to ask the IT department to license an expensive software package to print a mirror image.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 03:19:27 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 24, 2020, 02:22:33 amDo you often need to perform mirror printing?If not, then free on-line photoshop will help you or any other graphic program.If often, it may be cheaper and easier to buy a local inexpensive printer.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 09:15:30 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 24, 2020, 03:19:27 amI appreciate you trying to be helpful, but it was just a rant on my part, not a request for help. :p I’m a computer professional myself.Luckily, the main thing I ever need to print in mirror image (even on Windows) is PCBs, and both of the layout programs I use (EasyEDA and Altium) know how to do that themselves.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 12:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 24, 2020, 09:15:30 amWhy do you print mirror images? Do you use thermal transfer of toner to make PCB? Having noticed by contacting the IT Department, this is not a personal hobby for you. Why do you manufacture the PCB yourself?I wonder how much it costs to make 2 sides of a PCB in Canada? Much more expensive than in China? In Russia, in particular in my city, we have more than 5 enterprises that independently produce PCB. Some of them are military and there do not want to hear about third-party orders, and the civilian price for 1dm is 12 times more expensive (taking into account the cost of delivery from China by 8 times approximately). I have been ordering PCB in China for a long time. We have to wait. But you will be surprised: local manufacturers are still more expensive on a small quantity (I only make prototypes, not do mass production), even if the expensive DHL delivery.I respect the Chinese workers!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 01:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 24, 2020, 12:50:05 pmYes, toner transfer (the topic of the entire discussion I was replying to).Electronics is both a hobby and my job. At home, I often need just a single board. At work, it'd sometimes be handy to be able to make a simple PCB quickly. (Plus, it's just fun to do on occasion!) In this particular instance, I also want to explore using toner transfer for making front panels and nameplates, both using toner as "silkscreen", but also as resist to try etching aluminum. Other than that, we order PCBs from China.Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 24, 2020, 12:50:05 pmI wouldn't know. I've only ever been to Canada once, and that was on holiday.Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 24, 2020, 12:50:05 pmProbably. Few places are cheaper than China!Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 24, 2020, 12:50:05 pmI'm in Switzerland. Swiss PCB makers are extremely expensive, and like with many things here, they've specialized on the high-margin, high-end market. I work at a training center, so the boards we make are for relatively simple circuits for apprentices to practice on. So we definitely don't need the high-end Swiss PCBs!But even cheaper manufacturers in other parts of Europe aren't nearly as cheap as China, unfortunately.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 02:53:49 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 24, 2020, 01:07:47 pmSorry, I didn't see the flag and made a mistake.If everything is expensive in Switzerland, it means that your work is paid for expensively and you should have access to local purchases..., theoretically.However, your work at an educational institution explains everything! It is very good that students touch the process with their own hands. Probably, most of them will never need it and they will use ready-made boards, but understanding what is happening lays a solid foundation of knowledge. This was the case with us earlier, but now the training has become more superficial and introductory. I'm not sure that's a good thing.You're doing a good job! Respect!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 02:59:31 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 24, 2020, 02:53:49 pmWell, noteverythingis expensive here. (Nor is everyone here rich!) But some things, like low-end PCB making, just aren't profitable to do here, when other places do it so much cheaper. So what remains here is the super high-end.At work, the apprentices don't etch boards — we don't have time for that, unfortunately. We get the boards from China, like everyone else.But it would be nice to be able to prototype things more quickly when we just need a single board.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 07:55:05 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on October 19, 2020, 09:52:50 amIf a total beginner wanted to make some simple PCBs and have them made by JLPCCB, and wanted to have the easiest/quickest start wlth CAD to get some early success/momentum would you recommend KiCAD or DipTrace for a PC (not Apple) user?

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 08:51:52 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 26, 2020, 07:55:05 amI recommend EasyEDA and not for beginners only.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 09:13:17 am
content: I'd still go through the Kicad learning hoops. EasyEDA is a pretty large vendor lock in on what is a very politically unstable planet at the moment.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 10:31:07 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 26, 2020, 09:13:17 amFor security, you can save all projects in Altium or KiCad format.Oops..., export to KiCad is gone - just checked...By the way, EasyEDA has a similar logic to KiCad. Once you've mastered EasyEDA, it won't be hard to understand KiCAD.

author: shaheansar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 07:12:33 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 21, 2020, 05:27:08 amI've just started with PCB etching and havee had good luck with a brother printer. I don't know what kinds of resolutions qualify for "good", but I have a pretty much perfect PCB with an LQFP32 with perfect traces. There are the occasional unfilled gaps but a marker takes care of that stuff. The model's an HL L2321D

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 07:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 26, 2020, 07:55:05 amI haven't done any PCB stuff in years, but I did use DipTrace at one time. I found it super simple to get started with. Creating custom parts was almost trivial. But I don't know now, KiCAD might be worth a shot. Maybe just download both a start playing around.

author: mag_therm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 11:14:36 pm
content: I am using an el cheapo inkjet for transparancies and it works well.Epson ET2720. Set color to be Hex 0F 16 16 to get mostly black, with all colors spraying.I have a vacuum jig and use MG Chemicals positive boards.There are occasional pin-holes visible under microscope, but it is not problem for hobby boards as the pin-holes are much much smaller than the tracks and pads.

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 12:48:14 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on October 19, 2020, 09:52:50 amI see we have PCB fab managers all over the place ! Their job is to watch for topics such as 'Making your own PCB'. Then they come in, intimidate the OP in order to discourage them from making their own PCBs.When the discouraging was successful, they receive a reward ( points ) from the PCB fabs !

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:40:57 am
content: Quote from: shaheansar on October 26, 2020, 07:12:33 pmNo troubles with transferring the toner? Because that’s the common problem with the Brothers: the toner adheres to the transfer sheet so tightly that it will not adhere to the PCB at all.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 01:58:44 pm
content: So thermosoftening vs. thermosetting plastics?Any suitable chemicals for resoftening thermosetting stuff?If toner is changed by removing the old one, remember developer, in case it's still used.

author: shaheansar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 02:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2020, 06:40:57 amNot much of an issue. It's been real good so far. I did get the toner replaced though, so may have something to do with that

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2020, 07:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: shaheansar on October 27, 2020, 02:04:14 pmWith third-party toner? Maybe that’s the trick for getting a Brother to work.

author: shaheansar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2020, 08:11:12 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 28, 2020, 07:38:56 pmJust a generic replacement I found off of Amazon

author: guitchess
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 11:11:15 pm
content: My $.02 even though I'm a rookie, I've been hacking at it long enough to have learned a few things.I make my own because it cheaper/faster than any board house, i.e. JLCPCB, PCBway, etc.I can make 100 single boards for less $ than a minimum order of 1 board. Copper clad is cheap.Because of the aforementioned rookie status, it be heartbreak to get a beautiful pro made board just to find that i've made an error.From finished layout to board ready to solder takes about thirty minutes for a double sided pcb. Of course, there is no solder mask, but that hasn't been an issue so far. I'm not making the really small stuff though. SOIC, SOT23, 1206 with about .35 clearance is as small as I've used so far.I use the cheapest laser printer I could find at walmart, a Samsung scx-3405w. Don't know how that ranks on the scale.My best results come from Contact(other brands seem too thin for my printer) brand shelf liner in white(patterns make multilayer line ups a pain).I stick it to a sheet of paper in the right location, measured not pre-print.Iron and press with a J roller meant for pressing down laminate on countertops(day job is carpenter).I use kicad, plotting to an .svg, and then inkscape.I'm happy with the results. Was thinking about trying the photo resist method, but it adds cost and time. So, I won't fix what's not broken.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 10:47:46 am
content: Quote from: m k on October 27, 2020, 01:58:44 pmSilk screening has many kinds of chemicals with known properties.It's used from T-shirts to traffic signs.Would be a mess of all messes though.I guess it finally goes towards a self made toner.Since blackness is not needed any electrostatic stuff with suitable charge and heat sensitivity can be a candidate.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboelectric_effect