Question about upgrading my PC - for PC gurus - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2013, 10:08:18 pm
content: I used to be big into computers, but have been too busy the last few years to really keep up with all the nitty gritty details.Spurred on by SolidWorks constantly telling me I am low on resources, I ordered an upgrade for my office PC.Right now I have-Micron 256GB SSD Drive (capable of 6Gb-s but my current motherboard only has 3Gb-s support)-AsRock motherboard with AMD Phenom X3 955 CPU, 4GB of ram-Fire GL4900 video cardI ordered some parts-Intel Core i7 3770k CPU,-MSI Z77 motherboard-16GB of 2400Mhz DDR3 RAM-CPU cooler, new case, power supply, etc... but the above 3 are the only things Windows will know/care aboutI run Windows 7 at work. I'm *hoping* I can just take my SSD drive out of the old machine and plug it into the new one, and get it running.I know that a clean install would be ideal - but I can't really afford the downtime. Plus, I have quite a few installed applications that required some tweaking to get just right - like my FEA analysis stuff, MasterCam, SolidWorks, etc. I don't want to have to go through that again.I've read I may be able to just boot up and it will recognize and install the new hardware. I've also read that it won't, and I will need the original Windows 7 CD. I have a legal version of Windows 7 that I bought (retail edition, not OEM). But honestly, we have so many of these CD's at work that I have no idea which specific CD was used on my machine.Any PC gurus know what I need to do - assuming a complete re-install is out of the question (unless absolutely 100% necessary)?

author: warp_foo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2013, 10:43:58 pm
content: I have upgraded by moving a drive from an old to a new machine. (Motherboard swap, basically...) Windows did complain, and it required a service call to MS to reactivate properly.However.... almost every other piece of licensed software also whined until re-activated. In the end, a clean install likely would have been a wash, time-wise.I got away with it since that machine is only used for photoshop and lightroom, so the reactivate follies weren't horrible.YMMV,m

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 12:01:33 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on May 16, 2013, 10:08:18 pmIt can work, but it can be a disaster. Sometimes the new system will not start, and sometimes it runs, but something is not quite right. Even trying it will force changes to the drivers, so the SSD may not work on the old hardware either.Here is they way I would do it that will work great. I would first get a conventional drive at least as big as the SSD and clone the SSD. Check that the original PC will boot with the clone drive. You need to have a backup incase you make a mistake. For cloning the drive, you may have a commercial package that that does a great job, there are the free packages from the drive companies - some of them work well, and there are the open source packages like Clonezilla that work well but are not the nicest to use, and can often leave the drive in the non-active state at the end (Why? Don't ask me) so you have connect it back to a working Windows system and mark the drive active before you can boot from it.Get Sysprep for Windows 7 from Microsoft and run it on the PC with the SSD. It is pretty easy and I am sure there are video tutes on Youtube. When you finish do not let the old system reboot. Take the drive out and put it in the new system and boot. It will ask a few configuration questions and get you to re-enter the windows license key. It does a whole lot of things to make sure the operating system is a genuine new install like changing the SID codes and forcing drivers to be reinstalled if required. It retains all your existing installed programs and the windows will be properly installed.Sysprep is designed for people who package a system to make a cloneable Windows hard drive disk that includes all the vendors preloadedsoftwarejunk.Edit: At the end, you will have to re-activate and Windows may require you to ring Microsoft for a reactivation code. It shouldn't be a problem though. Just say you had to replace the motherboard and they will give you the code.

author: ecat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 12:06:04 am
content: I tried this once with Win XP going from an AMD to an Intel system. It worked very well. Let's see what I remember and you can decide if the process if worth while.The key to the process is a Microsoft deployment tool called Sysprep. It is designed to be used by large companies who need to install custom windows configurations complete with pre-installed applications. Sounds good? IIRC at the end you still need to re-authorise Windows but many applications just start up and run without issue.1) Clone your current OS disk or partition onto a fresh hard disk. I think I used DriveImageXML which while a little clunky has an essential tool built in...2) Make a note of your original disk's Disk ID (DriveImageXML->Tools->Set new Disk ID). I cannot remember if you can set the ID of your copy while both disks are connected. Try it, this is the key to maintaining most of your security information, including info used by registered apps. If you cannot set identical IDs for two currently in use disks try pulling your original and booting from your copy.3) Boot your clone and check all is well. Uninstall as many 3rd party drivers as you can: mouse, keyboard, optical disks, usb drivers. You are trying to reduce the system to bare bones Windows which greatly helps when it come to installing on the new PC.4) Test your updated clone. If you have the space it may be wise to make a backup at this point.5) Install and run Sysprep...http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preparing-an-image-using-sysprep-and-imagex.aspxhttp://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itproinstall/thread/db745877-78c0-4e7a-a75d-4f13a68598d0/I don't think I used any custom settings but something is niggling me to do with a rebuild keys or security keys tick box. If you see something like this I think you do not want to rebuild any sort of security.6) Your clone disk is now a shrink wrapped Windows insulation/boot disk complete with everything you had installed.7) Put clone in new PC, reboot and smile while your custom Windows image installs. Smile for a while at least, the next full boot will prove the pudding.Okay, that is from memory. It took me about 3 days to perfect the procedure so apologies if I've missed some critical step. It did work, I even came up with a way to integrate the new PC's raid drivers into the imageThe only problem I recall was an issue with the Logitech mouse drivers, but I didn't do the driver uninstall stage 1st time through.Good luck, Sysprep is a great tool.Edit:If you have any problems ask amspire, he types more quickly than IEdit 2:Of course once you have a new working system you can clone it back onto your SSD.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 12:29:07 am
content: Quote from: ecat on May 17, 2013, 12:06:04 amBut you have more detail.Just one last point - you never know what stupid brain-dead applications use to prevent copy protection. There may be a program that uses activation and one or two may decide that you have tried to run their app on a new machine as a second installation.If you have programs like Photoshop that can be deactivated, it is a good idea to deactivate first before running Sysprep. Then activate again on the new system.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 06:30:28 am
content: Thanks for the info guys, parts arrive today - wish me luck

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 07:25:08 am
content: i would go for 32gb of ram. it has a habbit to eat it all up

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 07:33:42 am
content: There's a trick that works for OEM WinXP but im not sure if it works for Win7 (probably not)I may have some details wrong but for XP you uninstall the latest service pack your running (SP3 for pretty much everyone).Then you re-install SP3 but when your PC prompts to reboot you power off and swap the HDD/SSD to a new PC.It works because part of the service pack upgrade process involves a reboot to re-detect hardware.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 07:34:48 am
content: Quote from: M. András on May 17, 2013, 07:25:08 amI may do that in the near future... the board has 4 DDR3 slots, and I got 2 x 8GB sticks, so I still have 2 slots free. Right now I have 4GB on my desktop... and the only program that causes me problems is SolidWorks... but it should be easy enough to drop in another 16GB if I hit the ceiling again.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 07:37:23 am
content: 32GB is a bit crazy unless you have a really specific need for it (gaming isn't one, but yeah solidworks might be)12GB should be fine for the 3-5 year life-expectancy of a PC for 99% of users.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 07:40:10 am
content: Don't know if this is true of 7 (or Vista) but XP tends to tolerate hardware changes relatively well; issues come up only when it loads an existing driver for hardware that doesn't exist and the driver does something funny when it can't find what it's driving. A repair install (not a full install) usually fixes that, but you can avoid this by uninstalling the drivers for everything except the basics, and not rebooting so it won't reinstall them. Then boot on the new machine and it should detect and install drivers for the new hardware.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 05:29:01 am
content: So in case anyone is interested... I decided to go into work today and upgrade my computer (good chance to play some video games while I am alone there too!).I used a program (Macrium) to clone the SSD to a 500GB backup drive I had in the machine... well, I was going to clone it. It wasn't clear if it was going to wipe the 500GB drive clean in the process or not, so I just imaged the drive instead. Then I figured "may as well install fresh", so I did. All went well... funny that the "Windows experience index" is the same, because the limited was my ATI FirePro (CAD/workstation) graphics card. It took me the better part of 8 hours to get everything re-installed, get the networking setup, backup configured, etc. What a PITA. But the system is nice and snappy quick!Not sure if I should bother even thinking of overclocking. Anyone know how much I could safely get away with on an i3770k w/Z77 mobo and Hyper 212 Evo (or whatever it's called) CPU cooler? I bought 2400Mhz RAM just 'cuz it wasn't much more $$ and had the highest rating.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 07:02:16 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on May 19, 2013, 05:29:01 amOverclocking does mean running close to the limits, and it will greatly increase the chances of a failure for a slight speed increase. If you want a reliable system that should keep running for years, I am not sure I would bother.If you were doing something like a lot of video rendering every day, and saving time was worth the risk of parts dying in 6 months, then have a go.With the i3770, the truth is you probably wouldn't notice the difference between overclocking and default speed for most jobs. It sounds a great system.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 07:13:05 am
content: Quote from: amspire on May 19, 2013, 07:02:16 amPeople say that, but when was the last time you saw a dead CPU?It does happen, but only when people run them at really high temps and voltages.My Intel core 2 Q6600 (stock 2.4ghz at 1.3V) has been running at 3.2Ghz on 1.4V since it was brand new (5 years ago) with a Zalman 9700 cooler on it.It's been used for pretty much 8 hours every day.The Q6600 was a really good cpu to overclock and the difference between 2.4ghz and 3.2ghz is very dramatic and totally worth it.It all depends how much of an overclock you can do stably. With the i3 i'm not sure there's much point but i would still try and see.Intel relabel fast binned cpus as slow ones all the time.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 11:33:40 am
content: Regarding longevity of overclocked components, I've had a Pentium 166MMX that's been running 24/7 at 233MHz and +0.1V core for over 10 years now in a NAS, with no issues. It's long obsolete, but still works. Of course newer CPUs are likely to be more fragile to core voltage increases but I don't think upping the clock would have a significant effect on lifetime.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 11:59:40 am
content: Just a warning, if you want to go low-end Z77 go for Gigabyte. But definitely not the normal Z77 either, Z77X-D3H or UD3HThe others are all garbage16GB of DDR3-2400 RAM? You don't need that ... get a G.Skill TridentX or Ripjaws.Z 2133 kit and OC it to 2400 C11 ...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231589< This particular one, where are from anyway?I say G.Skill because Corsair is being a tight arse nowQuote from: Corporate666 on May 19, 2013, 05:29:01 amGood thenIt's only advisable if it's not much more $$Quote from: amspire on May 19, 2013, 07:02:16 amUm, no. Some HWBOT users run their hardware @ 1.4V and still running fine after 2 years on sandy bridge.Quote from: Psi on May 19, 2013, 07:13:05 amThose buggers are really hard to kill! Excessive Vcore won't kill (heck 1.6V is fine) but excessive VTT willDon't bother overclocking a i3, you can't.Quote from: amyk on May 19, 2013, 11:33:40 amFragile ... Er, not. Lol. Ivy bridge is just as fragile as ... Nehalem is. And that's 45nm

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 02:47:58 pm
content: I have a nice pile of C2Duos that are dead from motherboard caps dying, which cooks them nicely. Funny enough the ram always survives, just the CPU and motherboard is dead. Pentium and pentium pros though in the ceramic packages are pretty much bulletproof, they just got overtaken. Not that the same is true of the bare die versions though, if the heatsink pops off it blows in under 2 seconds.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2013, 09:54:20 pm
content: we had 2 asus motherboards for the i7 2600 cpu. 1st board took out the psu and the cpu. second board take out the cpu and itself only a week ago. annoying fucked up design.... vrm was just shorted and let trough 12 volts to the cpu before it tripped the psu overcurrent protection at the second incident. at first dunno i didnt bothered to check that board. this one had an 5ohm short between +12v and gnd on the whole board measured from the molex mainboard connectors. i measured my resting perfectly working amd board it had over 600ohm between 12v and gnd dunno what conduct, pull ups or pull downs?

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2013, 10:32:59 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on May 19, 2013, 11:59:40 amDamn - I bought an MSI Z77A-G45 motherboard. I didn't realize it was garbage. So should I just toss it in the trash now or should I smash it up first?Who knew it was garbage? It worked perfectly first time, and I've been running some pretty heavy duty programs the last 2 days without any crashes or errors or anything. Glad I learned it's garbage though - almost thought it was useful there for a second!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2013, 07:27:05 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on May 20, 2013, 10:32:59 pmIf you're not overclocking it's rather decent though ... But mostly it's my book for garbage ... the quality is pretty piss poor

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2013, 07:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: M. András on May 19, 2013, 09:54:20 pmDead mosfets, what else?

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2013, 08:55:13 pm
content: a dead mosfet shouldnt be very close to zero?

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2013, 09:36:39 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on May 21, 2013, 07:27:05 pmI am too old to care about brand names and marketing bullshit words (this MSI board says it is "Military Class III" - how idiotic!). And honestly, I put a lot more stock in statistical data than anecdotal data. Looking at all Z77 boards available through NewEgg with a quantity of reviews, this is #13 board out of 105... and actually looking at the top 20, there are 4 MSI boards, 8 Asus boards, 2 BioStar, 4 AsRock, and 2 Gigabyte boards. I don't see anything to support the notion that anything other than Gigabyte is garbage. I realize everyone has their favorites, but I don't think you can argue with thousands of user experiences all aggregated on one of the largest computer parts stores in the world.In other words, it would seem the evidence suggests that the quality of these other boards is not piss poor.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 07:26:19 am
content: ive read a few hundred user reviews on newegg when i was looking for parts well i think most of the dudes are kids without any knowledge on any pc rather then how to play games

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2013, 10:01:12 am
content: Of the 8 ASUS boards many of them are the ROG boards, Sabertooth ... Maximus V mostly all.All others are crapAnd on AMD side Asus boards have high RMA rates. And as you've seen the board Dave got is hopelessly thinThe very 4 MSI boards are as follows, MPower, GD80, GD65 and GD65 Gaming. All others are fire makersOr really unreliable boards. Anything below 55 for MSI = Insta-CrapAsrock on the other hand makes great high-end boards but the low-end (Anything < Extreme3) is absolute garbageThe best low-end boards are from Biostar and Gigabyte whereas Biostar's high end boards are more like mid-range board but are pretty solid. Hell you can only get a Extreme4 for the price of a TZ77XE4 or there about at least where i amAnd seriously you trust Newegg ratings? Wow.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 07:51:23 pm
content: no i dont trust them just read a few of them and you should have noticed i wrote that most of them are kids and doesnt know what to look in a product for review

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 04:36:56 pm
content: Quote from: M. András on May 25, 2013, 07:51:23 pmIndeed. But I was quoting him not you

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 08:13:13 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on May 26, 2013, 04:36:56 pmthen use it properly