What difference should I expect from a decent quality solder station? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2016, 02:15:45 am
content: I've been using a WES51 for a long time, I keep it at 700 deg F and don't ever change it. I solder mostly 1206 parts, some tqfp 0.8mm, etc.What difference would I see from using something like a JBC soldering station?

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2016, 10:11:09 pm
content: Look for:- grounded tip to minimize ESD problems- adjustable temperature up to at least 850 degrees- variety of readily available tip sizes- service availability if you want to use your investment for a long timeI've had my favorite Weller WTCP station for about 35 years and it's still going strong!I sometimes buy soldering supplies from a vendor who specializes in soldering equipment. He recently told me that, in his opinion, EDSYN makes the best soldering station. A nice feature is that the EDSYN stations have an enclosed housing for the tip rest. This greatly extends the life of the tip and reduces energy consumption.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2016, 11:59:12 pm
content: Weller WS51 is a quality soldering station... If it is not broken or out of spec, you need good tips and you're good..No soldering station will give you any quantitative improvement for your type of work..

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2016, 02:49:21 pm
content: My first real soldering station was a genuine Hakko 936. A huge step up from a firestick. The I got a Hakko FX-951. The difference was the same as when I went from the firestick to the 936. I like the much better ergonomics of the closer tip to grip distance, the very fast thermal recovery and the autosleep feature. Then I scored a great deal on a Metcal MX-500 with the Talon tweezers that I couldn't pass up. I really believe that my soldering has improved with the upgraded equipment but maybe it's just solderphooleryIf the Weller does what you need it to do and provides no frustration whilst using it, there is no need to upgrade. I upgraded the 936 after 7 years of using it because some extra disposable income fell into my hands and the Metcal was too good to pass up--under $200 USD for the power supply, Talon tweezers and stand, NOS wand and stand and 5 new tips. That was impossible to pass up.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2016, 05:34:11 pm
content: Almost forever life tips and high power in small size/weight if go pro-gear. They cost a bit though.

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 08:56:33 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on October 30, 2016, 02:15:45 am+Faster heatupMore ergonomical ironFast tip exchange-Hotter handleMore expensive tip

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 10:28:39 pm
content: In 1997 I got a job at a local PCB factory; prior to that, I'd never soldered before. They had Metcal STSS and MX-500 solder stations there, so that's what I learned to solder on.By the way, the STSS and MX-500 are the same thing for all intents and purposes; same handpiece, same line of tip cartridges (STTC-xxx), same wattage; the latter is just a newer version of the former with a couple of trivial added features and a cosmetic redesign of the power supply unit.At first I didn't realize there was anything special about a Metcal, because I had no experience with anything else. At some point, one of my co-workers mentioned that he looked up the Metcal MX-500 on the internet and said it cost about $500, which was my first clue that it was something out of the ordinary.One night I asked my supervisor if I could borrow a soldering iron for the night, because I wanted to do some soldering on a full-range speaker box I was putting together. He said, "Sure," and reached under his desk and pulled out a vintage Weller soldering station. I wasn't impressed with that thing at all. For starters, it took a while for the tip to reach operating temperature (over a minute I would say), instead of several seconds like the Metcal, and the ergonomics were horrible. The grip was huge, over an inch in diameter I'm guessing, and the grip-to-tip distance was something like 5 or 6 inches. To illustrate the loss of control you get with such an unwieldy instrument, wrap a pencil with tape until it is over an inch in diameter, then grip it 6 inches from the tip, and try to sign your name as neatly as possible like that.After I stopped working at the PCB factory in 1999, I needed a soldering iron for various projects at home, so I bought one at Radio Shack for $7. It had about the same poor ergonomics as that Weller, but it took even longer to heat up (5 minutes or so) and the tip was junk; it corroded in no time. I could make good quality solder joints with it, just as I could with a screw driver heated with a propane torch, but I hated it.In 2007 I made up my mind to get my own Metcal, because I'd started acquiring 1980s arcade machines and found myself needing to do a lot of work to their PCBs and monitors. I managed to get a hell of a deal on a working Metcal STSS (complete with handpiece, one tip cartridge, and workstand); just under $40 shipped. The tip cartridge that came with it (STTC-125) worked fine, but I ordered a new STTC-126 tip cartridge for it, because I had a strong preference for that particular style of tip at work; I used it for most everything. ~10 years later, my Metcal still works perfectly, and so does that STTC-126 tip cartridge that I bought at the same time.In any case, as others have mentioned, the differences are: ergonomics, heat-up time, and ease/speed of changing tips. The Weller you have looks to be a lot more ergonomic than the ancient Weller station that I borrowed from work that time, but it is still a far cry from Metcal, JBC, and other high-end solder stations. A high-end soldering station won't necessarily improve the quality of your solder joints, but it will be more versatile and it will make soldering more enjoyable.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 03:16:19 am
content: Thanks for the info MaximRecoil - I'll have to keep an eye out for one.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 03:51:24 am
content: quality solder station?why have just one soldering station? I now have three. tip size for the job at hand. for a hobbyist trying to make one tip do all your soldering jobs is absurd.why have just one, super dooper tool in your toolbox . dentist's have more then one drill, for the job at hand

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 10:58:04 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 04, 2016, 03:51:24 amA better question is: why have more than one soldering station? If I got another soldering station, it would just be another Metcal STSS for backup in case the one I have breaks down (and I would likely need a soldering station to repair a soldering station).QuoteWith an STTC-126 it isn't a matter of trying to make do with one tip. It happens to be ideal for a wide range of jobs, from small SMDs to large through-hole joints (such as on a CRT's flyback transformer), so I end up using it for most everything. When I worked at the PCB factory, they had a huge selection of Metcal tip cartridges available, and I could have used any of them that I wanted to at any time. The only other tips I used were highly specialized ones, such as those IC-removal tips like this:

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 11:17:09 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on October 30, 2016, 02:15:45 amMuch less than you would see between a skilled operator and an unskilled operator, or between using the appropriate/inappropriate tips and temperature.For a remarkably succinct and thorough set of videos of what is rightand wrong, see "Basic Soldering Lessons"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837Almost everybody on this forum will learnat leasta little by understanding what you can see in those videos.N.B. "succinct and thorough" are absent in most modern youtube videos

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 11:33:43 am
content: Primary importance is tip quality. Solder doesn't stick well to crap tips, or sometimes even legit ones. You really want to use a known good brand tips.Secondary importance is the tip to element interface and feedback system. A generic system, like for 900M/T18 style tips is ok for most things.The issue with this tip system is the small air gap between the tip and element and less than perfect tip feedback.If you fork out some money for a proper system where the tip and element are one (like hakko T15 or really nice Metcal STTC tips) you will get instant heating and find things just solder effortlessly (User skill is still required though).The Metcal STTC tips are awesome, only disadvantage to these is having to change tips to change temperature.However, with a tip that maintains its temp so perfectly under any load, having to change the temp is almost never needed except when moving between lead vs lead free.Ive heard good things about getting the cheap china stations that accept hakko T15 tips and using genuine T15 tips on them.Probably still not as good as a Metcal STTC, but damn good for the price.I use a TMT-9000PS and love it it bits.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 07:13:05 pm
content: WES51 is a fine station. There's not much else to desire, for general purpose use. In special circumstances, you may need certain capabilities.... specific tips, more power, etc. Weller has a good variety of tips.QuoteErgos are important. But tip/grip distance is probably the most overrated thing about an iron, IMO. 99% of time, it is the left hand doing the fine work with the tweezers. The iron just has to reach, IME. The short tip/grip distance of WD micro pencil and Metcal is very annoying to me. Very little of my soldering would appreciably benefit from it.The main benefit of the Metcal IMO is productivity. With a metcal, you are soldering a huge variety of joints without needing to adjust the temp knob. And even doing large joints, you are not needing to wipe/clean your tip much. The Metcal will just cruise along as lower standby temp that doesn't burn off flux and crust up the tip but will still instantly form your joints. The tip stays clean and wetted, longer. It works by power modulation. The power bumps up instantly when in proximity to the joint. And it lets off, instantly, when you come off the joint. This is part of the reason why Metcal has twice the max power of other irons. The way it works, this is necessary for the iron to work so effortlessly.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 09:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 04, 2016, 07:13:05 pmI don't think it's overrated at all. If you don't think what you're doing with your iron is fine work, then swap your tweezers and iron around. If you think your tweezers require the most dexterity, then why aren't they in your right hand (assuming you're right-handed)? The longer the grip-to-tip distance is, the less control you have over it, which reduces speed and accuracy when trying to place the tip where you want it. That was especially important on the job I did, i.e., soldering through-hole joints as fast as possible on a production line; drag-soldering not allowed. And even at home where I'm in no hurry, I certainly wouldn't want to give up comfortable, fine control of the iron.I hate soldering with conventional soldering irons like this:If grip-to-tip distance were no big deal, soldering irons designed like that wouldn't bother me. Also, I would write with one of these ...... and I'd hold it like this:QuoteI know about productivity with a Metcal, and I also know that its ergonomics and grip-to-tip distance are a large part of what makes it such an efficient tool.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 01:24:26 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 04, 2016, 07:13:05 pmI had a Hakko 936 for about 7 years. I then upgraded to my Hakko FX-951 and then got a Metcal MX-500. I immediately noticed a difference with the shorter tip to grip distance. Soldering was more comfortable, so were the thinner wands. I don't think I would want to go back to a 936 style iron.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 10:57:39 pm
content: I did a short video to illustrate how in one of MY typical applications, the tweezers can do 99% of the work. The iron is just moving up, down. Up, down. The soldering is meh, and I missed one pad. But the biggest challenge was soldering by nekkid eye... WITH a USB microscope hanging in front of my face, attached to my overhead lamp. And not my Amscope. I did not look at the output while soldering (due to lag and one other reason which will be obvious if you watch the whole thing) so the framing is poor. The PCB is covered with tape to protect my IP, but it does appear to save my bacon, once. (In practice, blobs that would drag and fall on the board, I will just pick up with the tweezers and put back on the iron.) Doing only 2 or 3 components at a time is my usual practice, on a small panelized board, and it is how I have been assembling this board all along, so it isn't a strategy specific for the vid.https://youtu.be/rXsrYkcrprwThanks for watching.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:15:59 pm
content: Please update your post if it is working. I think it is up?Edit: Thx!

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:53:55 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 05, 2016, 10:57:39 pmHow do you figure? You made about 12 operations with the tweezers and about 25 operations with the soldering iron, which means the tweezers did about 32.4% of the work. Again, if you believe that your tweezers require more dexterity and do 99% of the work in your typical applications, why aren't they in your right hand?And yes, I can use an unwieldy iron too. I learned to solder with a Metcal RM3E handpiece and STTC-126 tip cartridge, and soldered millions of joints with that combination from 1997 to 1999. Then I bought my own Metcal in 2007. So from about 2000 until 2007, I had a $7 Radio Shack soldering iron similar to the one in the picture I posted earlier. I used it, but I hated it. Also, one time while I was still working at the PCB factory, and I didn't have a soldering iron at home at all, I used a flat-blade screwdriver heated with a propane torch, along with some solder wire from work, to resolder a couple of cracked solder joints on my VCR's remote control:Are you going to leave that fat grip on your iron and continue to hold it way away from the tip?By the way, here's a video I made yesterday to post in a different thread:https://youtu.be/tfJw5hlWCiYI've never tried that with an unwieldy iron, but I'm thinking it would be difficult rather than easy. If you can easily do it with that fat grip on your iron and holding it far away from the tip, I'd like to see a video of it. Also, there is another technique similar to that where you straighten a crooked SMD with two quick swipes of the iron, and the molten solder snaps it straight automatically due to surface tension or something. I don't know the exact mechanism responsible for it working, but I did it thousands of times at work. I've even straightened two crooked SMDs that were side-by-side with the same two swipes that I'd normally use for one crooked SMD. I'd expect that to be difficult with an unwieldy iron too.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 12:14:00 am
content: Well, haha. It might be hard for me to do those kinda things, but the bigger challenge is that I have soldered for many years using my RIGHT hand. I know I can do any of those things with a longer iron... cuz when I assemble a large board/panel, I am often holding the iron by the very end to reach across fluxed pads.The main operation where I can't do like that is drag soldering an IC. The tip is cut at a certain angle, and it won't work when held that far back, unless you set your hand on a riser.For tight pitched pin by pin rework and a fine point, yeah, I would prefer shorter grip to tip and nice ergos.I soldered with a Rat Shack for 2 years. The biggest problem I had with it is... tip need prep for every single joint. It would oxidize in 5 seconds. This was the biggest problem solved with my first temp controlled iron with properly plated tips. And then I got a Hakko and got a huge selecton of great tips. Another major improvement. I have used a Metcal... not a major improvement.... for ME. That said, at least I liked it. A lot. (Not nearly enough to want to figure out where on/in/under my bench I'm going to put it and then to replace 20+ Hakko tips.) I do NOT like the ergos of the Weller WD micro wand, and no shortness of tip to grip would change that.Kewl vid. Yeah, I do that kind thing, no problem. But bevels are some of my most favored tips, and I woulda just swiped that off by hitting it on the side and getting both pads at once.If it was a batch fix, I would have switched out to my knife tip to remove 6-12 of those caps at a time, sliding little columns up the side of the tip, no added solder needed, then wipe them all off when the tip is full.Quote1. The tweezer hand is the one positioning the components. The straight/crookedness of the parts is all up to the tweezers. Flipping a SOT or getting an 0603 stuck to the side of the tweezer is a major "danger" (as regards to productivity). And the tweezer hand is the one moving the board. This is exactly how I solder under my microscope. The iron hand gets the easy job. The iron "operations" amount to painting-by-number.2. The iron IS in my left hand. Watch the whole vid. Or at least 1:20ish.3. Why do I normally solder with my right hand?a. I was taught that way.b. It was thru hole parts that stay in by themselves. And I had solder wire in my left hand.c. I didn't know about liquid RA or use smd parts or even assemble or rework boards. It was proto and jumper wires.d. Iron hot. Burns bad.After years of that, you do not change. My entire bench is setup for right handed soldering.Cheers!

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 01:17:23 am
content: QuoteYeah, the tip was utter garbage on mine. I took everything for granted on the Metcal I'd always used at work, because it was all I knew, and that Radio Shack iron gave me a rude awakening. I don't solder all that much at home; mainly to repair my arcade machines when they flip out, like this Death of a TTL Chip, which I happened to catch live on video:https://youtu.be/hHPOiYoPuu4So it was hard for me to justify the cost of the iron I really wanted, i.e., a Metcal. But eventually, in 2007, I got a great deal on a complete Metcal STSS setup (power supply, handpiece, and workstand, as well as a used tip cartridge, but of a style that I never use [STTC-125]), for just under $40, shipped. The eBay seller listed it as "untested" because he didn't have a power cord (which is just a common-as-dirt IEC cord; I have several of them laying around the house), which usually means "I tested it and it doesn't work, but 'untested' sounds better than 'not working'", which is probably why I got it for so cheap. I figured it was worth the gamble, and as it turned out, it worked perfectly, and still does. I've never had any problems with it at all.Quote from: KL27x on December 06, 2016, 12:14:00 amYes, but in my case, that would require me to change tips, and even though that's quick to do with a Metcal and similar cartridge-type irons, it isn't as quick as doing it with the tip you're already using. Also, the two-swipe-removal method works with some components that have 3 or more legs, depending on how the legs are spaced and what tip you happen to be using. And the two-swipe-straightening method requires two swipes of course. Sometimes I would get a lot of those to straighten at work when the PnP machine was acting up.QuoteIndeed. It was a good video. I like seeing how other people solder. Your method in that video wouldn't have been allowed at work; drag soldering wasn't allowed either. Every joint had to be soldered one at a time, with fresh solder wire fed into it. The PCBs we built were parts for elaborate, industrial fire alarm systems (http://www.edwardsfire.com/), categorized as "life-saving equipment", and they were very fussy about how things were done. There was no arguing with them on the merits of their fussiness; it was their way or the highway.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 01:21:35 am
content: Thx for watching. And for the discussion. I edited my post while you were posting with some more data points (slash argument, lol). Which (editing) is par for the course for me. I'm trying to stop.