Unable to read older GI 9316b ROM in programmers - Suggestions? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2014, 10:19:58 pm
content: Hello,I was hoping to find some advise or suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong as I have been trying to read a few working GI 9316B DIP-24 ROMs off a Arcade game with my programmers with no luck. Neither of my programmers (TL866CS & TOP853) had direct support for a 9316B chip, but it's datasheet I found claims it is pin compatible with 2716 EPROMs, but trying to read it as such didn't get me anywhere.Checking around online I found instructions for a 9316 to 2716 adapter for reading them in programmers as I am trying to do, but it as well has not been successful.Attached is the guide I found to build a adapter that has not worked for me, as well as the only 9316b datasheet I have found from GI. Can anyone suggest what I may be doing wrong?Thanks in advance as any suggestions or tips are appreciated!

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 01:47:09 am
content: Your 9216 pdf file seems to be corrupt.Looks like there should be no problem through to read the 9316 with pins transposed, but the adapter diagram you show below doesn't match the datasheet. It shows one CS as positive active.The chip is a mask-programmed ROM.http://www.datasheetarchive.com/RO-3-9316B-datasheet.htmlshows says 9316 chip directly plug-in compatible with 2716.

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 02:25:08 am
content: Thanks for the reply Paul. That is the datasheet I found online too. Alas I am having no luck getting it to read in my programmers. I tested both programmers with other chips and they work fine.Assuming the datasheet you linked (and I failed at attaching) is correct and assuming the socket adapter I made from that one guys notes I linked is totally wrong I am trying to figure-out what to do to get it to work in my programmers as a 2716. Any suggestions on what to try next?Thanks for looking at this for me.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 04:46:40 am
content: turn off the identity check in the programmer.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 02:15:56 pm
content: The 9316 does not behave like other mask ROMs. It is not a 2716 drop in replacmentdue because of a custom 1 of 8 CS code.The chip select inut pins are custom factory mask programmed, and depending on the chip programmed, the values of CS1, CS2 amd CS3 to enable the outputs needs to be set to only one of the possible 8 different CS patterns, so only one CS setting from possible values of 000 to 111 chip select codes will produce an output.This allows the 9316 to use the CS lines to select each chip by chip-select address bits thus without requring any 1 of 8 ROM select decoding chip logic on the target system.So, all you need to do is attach a 3-station dip switch to the ROM CS's being read and toggle through the 8 possible settings to enable the chip for reading. Can be easily done with a breadboard and using jumper wires and pull-up resistors to +5V and then grounding the CS pins in binary sequence until you see the chip becomes active.Seems there should be be some XXX number (XXX from 000 to 111 or a dash 0 to dash 7 number) on each custom chip label to identity the required CS code.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 04:40:51 pm
content: Good information, Paul.I did something similar with a DS1245 (1 Mbit NVSRAM) in order to read/write it with the TL866, which does not support DS1245, but supports DS1230 (256 kbit version). I built an adapter from two stacked sockets, and used a two pole DIP switch to set the extra two address lines in exactly the way you describe for the CS lines in this case. Works like a charm, even though I need to read/write 4 times to do the entire chip.

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 07:45:04 pm
content: Thanks so much Paul, thats very helpful! I should be able to breadboard something up tonight.Here are the numbers printed on the chips exactly (their are no added labels unfortunatly):9316b-0854GI 7920cba9316b-0855GI 79059316b-0856GI 79059316b-0869GI 7901Am I safe to assume the number code past the hyphen could be used to set the CS DIP switches if I build a circuit?

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 09:54:21 pm
content: Since the last hyphen suffix ends in a 9 and there are only 8-possibilities 0 to 7 (or maybe 1 to, the suffixes only betray the contents of the ROM, not its CS selection.Regardless of the suffix label numbers, you only have to flip through a max of 8 settings to crack the CD select code. This means your odds of randomly guessing the CS code is a solid 50-50 of getting it right within trying 4 codes.After you find the settings for the first two chips, you might then be able to compare the binary value to the label suffixes to posit the other CS settings, and it is easy enough to check your guess.

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2014, 11:41:31 pm
content: Paul,Thanks again, and sorry for my newbness, but I want to make sure I follow you before I try to throw this together. Am I thinking about this correctly that I would just wire it up as you said with each CS Pin (Pins 18, 20, & 21) wired to a on/off dip switch that is in turn wired to the ground pin (pin 12) and the rest of the pins wired straight through?

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2014, 12:05:13 am
content: Quote from: weirdaljr on December 10, 2014, 11:41:31 pmI realize I must be obviously wrong since you mentioned using resistors to get 5v. Sorry to need it spelled out, but I know I must be thinking about this incorrectly.

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2014, 12:52:08 am
content: Am I on the right track here?

author: weirdaljr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2014, 09:20:51 pm
content: Could anyone tell me if that circuit diagram I put up in my last post looks right for this?I put it together on a breadboard and I want to connect it up to my programmer tonight to test it out, but I didn't know if I understood Pauls suggestion correctly.Thanks All!

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2014, 11:08:34 pm
content: Quote from: weirdaljr on December 11, 2014, 09:20:51 pmYes, the switches and resistors look like they should work for this - good luck!

author: lizard43
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 03, 2023, 07:59:49 pm
content: weirdaljr -Were you able to read those 9316B roms? What game are they from? I have the exact set of 5 roms that I'm trying to figure out what they are. I got them in the early 80's from a console arcade game but I don;t recall which one. Thanks9316b-08549316b-08559316b-08569316b-0869

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2023, 01:38:13 am
content: Midway Space Invaders. Does this ring a bell?

author: lizard43
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2023, 07:41:09 pm
content: >> Midway Space Invaders. Does this ring a bell?Definitely rings a bell. I had a few cocktail game boards back then. I'm not sure what happened to the boards but the roms ended up in a box that I recently came across. I also have a handful of Star Fire roms from same era. And possibly ms pacman.thanks for your response

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2023, 03:09:02 am
content: could be some help ? theres some description for the 3 cs lines p4-53