Speech in England and the letter "R" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 05:28:56 pm
content: Here's a question totally unrelated to Electronics, mostly directed to our English friends.I've noticed over the years that certain English speakers from England have difficulty pronouncing the letter "R". Well known examples are the late Jacob Bronowski (BBC Ascent of Man), Oliver Sachs (recently deceased neurologist) and the ever entertaining Andrew of Photonicinduction youtube fame.Is there a regional dialect in England where "R"s are not enunciated? Just Curious...

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 07:56:56 pm
content: Some people have a speech impediment which means they can't pronounce certain letters, like R. (Jonathan Ross for example who hosts pen and teller: fool us).Certain areas have particular accents which can mean they become lazy with their speech, and almost roll over some of the letters, which might sound a bit off to others.I find it strange that American's can't seem to pronounce the 'l' in soLder, on 99% of videos with an American talking they call it "sodder", perhaps it's lazy speech, I don't know.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 08:20:38 pm
content: Some pronounce the letter 'R' as a 'W' so 'alright mate' becomes 'ah white mate'. I find the accent from Southern England very strange, a friend of mine from London insisted that she did not have a accent then told me that she was "goin upstairs for a barf".

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 08:25:36 pm
content: The R is perhaps the most interesting letter there is when it comes to pronunciation in many languages...Even in a small country like my own, there are many variations of how the R is pronounced.The way I speak it is very much alike the silent British R (not as "bad" as Jonathan Woss, though) while I have a colleague born not 40 km away who pronounces a rolling R with the tip of the tongue. I can't do his R, he can't do mine.Have a listen, the R differs just as much in GB (and Ireland) as here:Moreon the R.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 08:41:03 pm
content: There is a difference between non-rhotic accents as commonly found in Britain, and the speech impediment that turns "r" into "w".The general case, as found with most English speakers on the British side of the Atlantic, is that the terminal "r" in words like "car", "bar", "colour" and so on is silent, it is not pronounced at all. This contrasts with most North American speakers of English where the terminal "r" is not silent.Thus British speakers would tend to sayworttuh, contrasting with the more American soundingwahd'rIt's not that British speakers can't pronounce the "r", it's just that we don't.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 08:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on June 02, 2016, 08:20:38 pmIt is not exactlyah white mate?, it is more likeaw'right mate?The 'l' is dropped and the 'r' is soft (but still 'r', not 'w'). It may be hard to hear the difference if you are not a native speaker.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 08:52:29 pm
content: I've also noticed in the states different regional accents adding R where there isn't one. My aunt from Missouri always said warsh for wash

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 09:09:03 pm
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on June 02, 2016, 08:52:29 pmI have Midwest (US) relatives that do the same.When I was a kid in elementary school in California, pronouncing R like W was considered a speech impediment. If you spoke like that you were sent to a school speech therapist. I guess if you didn't speak like a proper surfer dude you might be scarred for life.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 09:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on June 02, 2016, 07:56:56 pmIt's not that we can't and it's not that we're lazy, that's just how it's pronounced in American English...the 'L' is silent.http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/solder

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 09:29:30 pm
content: The pronunciation of a word that always baffles me is "Worcestershire" (from Worcestershire sauce). Not only the "R" is completely ignored but a bunch of other letters as well (according tothis reference).In Brazil we simply call it "Molho Inglês" (English sauce) - a lot easier...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 09:47:03 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on June 02, 2016, 09:29:30 pmStart with "Worcester" and keep saying it over and over, faster and faster. Before long you will be saying "Wooster".The same happens with Gloucester (becomes "Gloster").(There is a children's rhyme that begins "Doctor Foster went to Gloucester...")

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 10:08:49 pm
content: QuoteWhich England ? New or original ?

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 10:11:04 pm
content: ...and other English speakers add an R where there isn't one.I have no eye deer why.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2016, 10:16:20 pm
content: Cholmundley (as in the castle) is pronounced Chumly. Given that the family have lived there for 900 years it's hardly surprising that there's been a divergence between spelling and speaking.Mousehole is a town in Cornwall pronounced MouzalIf you live in Bristol then you pronounce it Brizzle, but they're odd round there so it's to be expected.There's so many places in England that are spelt very differently to how they're spoken.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:00:09 am
content: Thanks for all the replies. I posted this and then left for work. I had the sinking feeling throughout the day the question may have been interpreted as insensitive, especially to people that may in fact have a speech impediment. Obviously, my knowledge of England (Great Britain) is lacking. And as was pointed out, the New England States also have a non-rhotic accent. (OK, I admit, I had to look up that word in Wikipedia!)

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:02:02 am
content: Take Birmingham, listen to Alice Cooper pronounce it it sounds like he is saying Birming HAM, when we pronounce it like Birming'um, but Americans over pronounce the "ham" at the end.Just another example, but there are quite a few places in America that have place names the same as England, like Birmingham etc.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:06:35 am
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on June 02, 2016, 09:19:47 pmMaybe so, but why do you say "folder" instead of "fodder", or "holder" instead of "hodder", or "boulder" instead of "bodder", why is "solder / sodder" different?And, if you ever came here and asked for "sodder" you might get a different response to what you were intending!

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:08:27 am
content: Even within the US there are differences in the pronunciation of cities and places.Take Louisville. If you're talking about Kentucky, it's pronounced "looee-vill". If you're talking about Colorado, it's pronounced "lewis-vill".

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:10:13 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on June 03, 2016, 12:06:35 amI don't know, I didn't come up with it!English is a weird language with so many rules and exceptions to rules that it's amazing any of us can understand what each other are saying.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:44:27 am
content: Hah, there are certainly some people who I don't understand or what they are saying!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 01:20:51 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on June 03, 2016, 12:06:35 amBecause EnglishIn Latin you havesolidare, with an 'l' (pronounced). That's where the English word solder comes from.Then in Old French you havesouder, (no 'l'), which perhaps leads to the silent 'l' in American English.It's probable that the American pronunciation traces back to the British pronunciation from 300 years ago.

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 01:49:34 am
content: In my view (watchinTv) and the likes there is a Specific Gene over there in the UK and it seems quite common imo and spreading .I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the inflicted but i notice the association , it's the short tongue syndrome as i name it with varying levels of that symptom especially with the W & R's , also associated with the STS is the LJS (locked jaw syndrome) in where some hardly open the Gob (English for mouth) and speak through the teeth , get a LJS and a STS combined at a maximum and w and r sound funny to hear with that rolling of the tongue sound , one can see the gob not working .That female driver actor in the tv series Foyles War had a dose , then that female driver in 5th Gear had the similar dose just to mention 2 that immediately springs to mind , i will not mention my tv "pet names" for them though ..imo of course .

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 04:17:47 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on June 03, 2016, 12:06:35 amI gather you're not sodd on the explanation?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 04:33:39 am
content: Quote from: steverino on June 02, 2016, 05:28:56 pmIs this a joke? Are you really going to start with a man who fled Poland for England in his teens, forgot the Polish language, but never lost his Polish accent? Why don't you try Heinz Wolff. Another well known Brit, whose family fled Germany for England. He never lost his original accent. Both were great TV presenters. Neither represents anything about English accents.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 05:50:55 am
content: Quote from: IanB on June 03, 2016, 01:20:51 amI didn't know the Latin background but I always thought that the French "souder" migt have been the word that American English adopted rather than the British word.Language is a funny thing, it's constantly evolving. That's why they're putting out new spelling rules and dictionaries every other decade or so.Not only do new words get invented, others fade from memory, only to be found in formal language or old texts. Or they change meaning so the original meaning is forgotten (e.g. "received pronunciation" in which received means "accepted" or "approved"). And I don't think "gay" always had the link to homosexuality.Sometimes and old spelling is kept despite the pronunciation having changed. E.g. letters no longer being pronounced as in the "Worcester" example already given.Sometimes spellings do change with the change in pronunciation. E.g. in Dutch diphthongs emerged that did away with "ol" or "al" (e.g. old Dutch "wold" (forest) became "woud", in German that word is still "Wald").And then there are of course the influences of other languages over time. English is a good example as it has the same roots as German and Dutch, all three being West Germanic languages. English of course having been influenced by the Romance languages and Celtic languages much more than the other two, and the Dutch language largely was not influenced by the second Germanic consonant shift.How the different langauges call the seasons clearly shows the influences and that they may vary:English: summerGerman: SommerDutch: zomerFrench: étéEnglish: autumnFrench: automneGerman: HerbstDutch: herfstEnglish: winterGerman: WinterDutch: winterFrench: hiverEnglish: springFrench: printempsGerman: FrühlingDutch: lenteIt stands to reason that the English spoken across the world will keep evolving in different ways, creating more differences in pronunciation and meaning. And of course new developments of inventions that become popular all over the world might get quite different designations. As a good example of that look at the different parts of a car and how those get quite different designations in British and American English (boot/trunk; bonnet/hood; bulkhead/firewall; propellor shaft/driveshaft. etc. etc...).Yeah, very susceptible to change, language...

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 05:52:25 am
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 03, 2016, 01:49:34 amI can't help but think of John Cleese now in the Monty Python parrot sketch...@ the Brits: just out of curiosity, does he do a Cockney accent there ("not 'alf an hour ago")?

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 06:26:22 am
content: Having grown up with this "R" -https://youtu.be/DuvAOfxvXbM(this guy explains it well) took me years to notice any difference between the British and American R-s. In Slavic countries there is probably 10% of the population who never learn to roll their tongues (my wife including).

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 06:36:18 am
content: Wasn't there some crazy Geico commercial where the character keeps pronouncing rabbit as "wabbit" and the announcer keeps trying to correct him?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 06:40:41 am
content: Sorry, I was reminded of this scene from 'The Dictator':https://youtu.be/L_IuV6oBoxI?t=1m13s"Who shot Loger Labbit?"

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 06:52:37 am
content: Some English peopleadd"R" to words,pronouncing "cat" as "cart",& "castle " as "carstle" for instance.(although the latter is common in OZ,too.Another thing is replacing "e" with "a",so "Derby" becomes "Darby".This is the way they pronounce it in the Eastern States of Australia,too,but in WA,it is pronounced as it is spelt---- "DERBY"!They also love to freak us out by pronouncing "Albany as "Orlbany"---aaaarrrrgggghhh!Getting back to the Brits---how about the "uppercrust" pronunciation of "horses" as "horse-is"?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 07:42:26 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on June 03, 2016, 06:52:37 amLOL, I don't think soIn all British accents I am aware of, "cat" and "cart" are pronounced differently. (You do not have the Mary/marry/merry convergence that has happened in much of the USA.) Also, castle may have a long "a" sound in southern England, but that makes it "cahstle", not "carsle" (there is no "r" sound in there). The long "a" appears in words like castle and bath, but not in cat or bat (which keep a short "a").

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 08:11:27 am
content: English is tough stuff.True in itself but also the name of a fun poem. Read itEDIT: Lazylink;http://pauillac.inria.fr/~xleroy/stuff/english-pronunciation.html

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 08:12:52 am
content: Quote from: jitter on June 03, 2016, 05:52:25 amNo, Cleese is just using a common form of everyday speech, but he is hamming it up a bit (being overly theatrical) for comedic effect.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 08:45:13 am
content: I'm learning to speak German.Ist Ihr Tochter achtzehn, bitte?

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 10:23:25 am
content: Hoe about the pronunciation of "to bury"? Is that spoken the same across all English speakers?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 11:06:47 am
content: The "non-rhotic" English accent was a made up affection by the English upper class. If you want to hear what Brits used to sound like, listen to American newscasters. States like Massachusets, Maine, and New York got a healthy does of British influence, so they picked up some similarities.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:35:38 pm
content: My family came from Devonshire - and I won't even begin to try and explain the accent. I doubt I could.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 12:37:56 pm
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on June 02, 2016, 08:52:29 pmMy Mother-In-Law from Maryland says that and 'hersh' for hush. Funny to listen to but I am a Jersy Boy and everyone makes fun of our accent though I sound more New York and New Jersey.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 01:10:14 pm
content: A friend of mine from Michigan once said *I* was the one who sounded Canadian. Born and lived all my life outside of Philadelphia. I do not sound the least bit Canadian, eh?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 01:11:57 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on June 03, 2016, 12:35:38 pmIts an accent made smooth by all that clotted cream.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 01:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: steverino on June 02, 2016, 05:28:56 pmDifficulty with reproducing rhotic sounds isn't just an English or a cultural thing. Rhotic sounds are most difficult to learn and typically amongst the last a child masters. Just about all kids say wabbit instead of rabbit (just for example) and a small percentage don't grow out of it. Then it can actually be considered a speech impediment, the medical term for which is Rhotacism.see: homepages.wmich.edu/~hillenbr/501/RhoticVowels.pptx

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 02:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on June 03, 2016, 10:23:25 amIt sounds like "berry", if that is what you mean?

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 03:25:55 pm
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 03, 2016, 10:55:31 amArgh... autocorrect was still on on my new phone... sorry, no pun intended...But "hoe" is actually Dutch for "how" (almost pronounced like "who").

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 03:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on June 02, 2016, 10:16:20 pmMurnpeowie = Mumpy-howie or just MumpyEtadunna = Ether-dinnaAmata = ArmataProbably not known by as many as the places you mention.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 03:34:19 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on June 03, 2016, 02:58:07 pmYes, I know, but I meant to ask if the are speakers that say "burry"?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 03:37:15 pm
content: Yeah, they're called posh gits!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 04:10:02 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on June 03, 2016, 03:34:19 pmNo, "berry" is completely standard pronunciation.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 04:51:55 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on June 02, 2016, 09:29:30 pmYou might get some strange looks in a French restaurant if you ask for some "English sauce" to put on your savoury dish.In French, "Crème anglaise", translated as "English cream" or "English sauce", is atype of custard.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 06:46:04 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on June 03, 2016, 04:10:02 pm"berry" may be standard, but I have heard speakers who "burry" their dead. Can't place where at the moment but it likely was in Kansas or south Texas.It is hard to overstate the number of ways that "English" has been mangled. It has sent me on some merry chases. When tracking the genealogy of an English ancestor I had to track down the birthplace of a man whose elderly grand daughter recalled him saying he was born in Kiln or Kilm. The gentleman in question had been dead for decades so there was no way to check pronunciation. Took a while to trace that to Kilham.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 04:12:32 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 03, 2016, 06:46:04 pmI've walked into a shop in Canada and said I needed some fags.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 05:32:55 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on June 03, 2016, 12:35:38 pmJust say "they all sound like pirates, particularly Long John Silver". For some strange reason we all think pirates sound like the actor Robert Newton (who portrayed Silver) who had a strong West Country accent.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 05:52:30 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 03, 2016, 06:46:04 pmI just remembered where I'd heard "burry".If I listen to "Bring it on home to me", performed by The Animals, I can't help but hearburried(in the line: Buried in my grave). Yet the same singer pronounces bury asberryin the song "Bury my body".

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 05:59:30 am
content: I'm going to develop some sort of speech impediment from reading this thread

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 06:02:29 am
content: Quote from: IanB on June 03, 2016, 04:10:02 pmUnless one is referring to the Lancashire town Bury, when it is pronounced Burri - to rhyme with delicious, delicious curry.English is full of homophones, homonyms, homographs and heteronyms, more so than any other language as far as I can tell.You can have a row about the best way to row a green boat, but if you're green on the subject of rowing then you might deserted for being argumentative and have to move to the desert instead - where you can eat your dessert. Oh, and you shouldn't make a dog lead out of lead, use leather instead and your dog will be led.row - rouw - to argue, also a lot of noise- ro - propel a boat with oars OR a series of similar thingsgreen - a colour OR inexperienced OR enviromentally sound OR uncured meat OR unset glue OR a type of bone fracture OR ...desert - dess-ert - a sandy dry place- dezurt - abandondessert - dezurt - sweet course in a meallead - leed - a length of material for controlling an animal OR a piece of information or clue- led - a dense soft metalled - led - past participle of "to lead"

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 06:06:54 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on June 04, 2016, 06:02:29 amBury in UK place names has a similar origin to borough. E.g. "Friends, Romans and countrymen. I have come to Bury St. Edmonds."

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 06:08:49 am
content: Quote from: coppice on June 04, 2016, 06:06:54 amShouldn't that be "I have come to bury Noel Edmonds, not to praise him!"

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 07:15:19 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on June 04, 2016, 06:02:29 amInteresting. It doesn't rhyme with curry where I'm from (London home counties). I would pronounce both bury and Bury like this:http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/bury(click the UK button)whereas curry is like this:http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/curryHere's a source for Bury sounding like bury, although clearly not everyone agrees:https://www.reddit.com/r/manchester/comments/22s77f/how_is_bury_pronounced_is_it_bury_or_berry/Furthermore, the Bury in Bury St Edmunds could be different:When comparing British and US pronunciation the vowel in bury is not a strong "e" sound, it is more of an "uh" sound, such that the pronunciation could be written "b'ri".

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 08:03:45 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on June 04, 2016, 05:59:30 amToo late i can hear it already ...

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 08:12:12 am
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_of_the_DeadIf one has ever watched it was full of Rhymings and sayings from the Old Geezers or the Old Gits actors in the movie , it was funny to hear the very long explanations of how the old gits got to make 1 word understandable and expected everyone to understand or else you were as Thick as 2 short planks! (don't ask how short or how thick either) or just Thick .North and South = The Mouth = The GobPosh = Passengers on Starboard HoldWonder what a Git is?A Geezer? rhyms with Wheezer (out of breath and nearly ded , so no need really for the old bit)edited>wrong movie , , , , Mutton Jeff = Deaf

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 08:20:59 am
content: Quote from: jitter on June 03, 2016, 03:25:55 pmLol i did look it up just then , a pun would have been better as it would have been more that a spelling mistake or wrong keyboard button that a actual thing , what a coincidence , thanks ..

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 08:54:29 am
content: I do really like the scottish accent since I saw Amy MacDonald at Top Gear.And I hope you'll enjoy a voice recognition system in a lift in Scotland:

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 09:42:34 am
content: I just came back from a trip to Shanghai and let me tell you, the Chinese people have not even the slightest idea of an "R"But even in Germany, we need help to learn to speak the "R"https://youtu.be/i5DgUuCIHc0

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 10:21:07 am
content: Funny... that's my R. But according to this map I should not have it:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttural_R#/media/File:R_in_European_languages.png

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 11:12:26 am
content: Quote from: IanB on June 04, 2016, 07:15:19 amThat video pronounces Bury St Edmunds like no native speaker of English in any English speaking country would.

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 02:48:49 pm
content: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/githttp://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/geezerNo "from" words in those explanations , like Git might be a offshoot from Twit but transcribed to sound different ?Nothing about a Wheezer (near ded) in the Geezer linkThat is a interesting link thereIanB.Edited> also there is all those acronyms out there that have been forgotten , did the posh alreadyWOP without official papersWOG without official grantDago , i forgotten?This next one might cause trouble but its a long forgotten fact and can never be provenNigger , slave trader days way back before the actual "trade" system , was long worded/spoken for Niger the country , heard as Nigger and then perpetuated by the traders and the likes , it was Niger (all the same).

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 03:08:19 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on June 04, 2016, 11:12:26 amBarring that she's not got the right accent, that's pretty close to how the natives of Bury in Lancashire pronounce their town's name and very close to how the rest of England pronounce Bury in Bury St Edmunds. It's just a little GPS like...

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 03:25:37 pm
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 04, 2016, 02:48:49 pmI would say it's easily disproven. A quick check of African history shows that most of the modern states were created during the colonial period, which far postdates the era of transporting slaves to the Americas. The word is a corruption of the French or Spanish words for "black". Occam's Razor, etc.The others derivations seem equally unlikely.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 03:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 04, 2016, 09:42:34 amI have become used to people from Asian countries pronounce my name as: Lichard Clowery

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 03:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on June 02, 2016, 09:09:03 pmwell that's just, like, your opinion, man.(the dude abides)

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 04:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: helius on June 04, 2016, 03:25:37 pmMusta been some quick check then disprove this below"The earliest use of the name "Niger" for the river is by Leo Africanus in his Della descrittione dell’Africa et delle cose notabili che iui sono published in Italian in 1550"I have seen copies of allied prisoners of war sheets that are designated WOP coming in , WOG going out from in the the North Africa region WW2 and mention of before WW2 , quick check them too will ya .

author: switcher
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 04:30:38 pm
content: An example of someone who couldnt pronounce their 'R's is the late, great (gwate?) Roy Jenkins.I always find it strange how Americans say "sahda" for solder.We're all different, I guess, there is no right and no wrong.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2016, 08:35:08 pm
content: Regarding the subject of speech impedimentsSome years ago there was a TV comedy series called 'Open All Hours' about a shopkeeper . This particular fellow had a stammer and after the first episode a couple of viewers wrote in and pointed out that it was wrong to make fun of people who did this. The letters were published and the BBC promised an investigation but the next week there were HUNDREDS of letters from people who stammered telling the BBC to keep on going because the programme was so funny.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 12:44:16 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on June 04, 2016, 08:35:08 pmExcellent show! I also liked "Still Open All Hours".If you like British humour, well worth a watch:

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 01:09:16 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 05, 2016, 12:44:16 amYes, good shows indeed.I don't think the Americans understand much of the humour though - much like I find some of the American humour not funny at all.All depends on where you are raised I supposed (British heritage here in Oz).

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 02:52:13 am
content: Some of us do though - some of my favorite things are Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, etc. A whole group of us didn't miss an episode of The Young Ones when we were in college.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 04:13:44 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on June 05, 2016, 02:52:13 amAll excellent choices - your'e in danger of becoming a true Anglophile!Watch Red Dwarf at all?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 07:34:06 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on June 05, 2016, 02:52:13 amWhen I spent a few weeks working in Pheonix in the early 90s, a group of young American engineers there kept probing me for the names of any good British comedy shows they might petition the PRS stations to show. British comedy, apart from Benny Hill and Are You Being Served, was a big thing for them.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 12:43:19 am
content: Oh yes, forgot about Are You Being Served. Love that one too.Unfortunately, no, I have not seen Red Dwarf at all, though I suspect I will like it.I generally find these sort of comedies much funnier than many American comedies, one of the exceptions being Mel Brooks, I love his movies. Perhaps I was born in the wrong country. Another example, if I were to rank my favorite SF shows, Star Trek comes out on top, but Dr. Who is in there ahead of Star Wars. I haven't seen any of the most recent Dr. Who series, my favorites are the older ones, Pertwee and Tom Baker and Davison.Hey, I liked that Hercules Returns movie - that has to say something (mostly that I must be completely off my rocker, but I already knew that..)

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 07:58:52 am
content: When I first saw topics name I remembered video from this great man:I know Lindybeige is talking about little bit different topic, but worth mentioning his great channel.

author: starphot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 05:34:17 am
content: Quote from: rfeecs on June 02, 2016, 09:09:03 pmMy older relatives in Colorado as well. Go wursh, dinner's on! My grandmother and her generation pronounced the 50th state as Ha-wah-ya. I was also in elementary school in California as well. When we moved back to Colorado, the kids in my new class sounded the same as the the kids back in SoCal did due to the standardized teaching. Those kids didn't pick up their parents' regional or foreign dialects in either place! The "ahh dwapping" is common in the New England states.Joe

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 04:24:41 am
content: Quote from: starphot on June 08, 2016, 05:34:17 amColorado language has (had) many peculiarities. The school systems and tv are drowning them out, as is the huge influx of non-natives. When I was growing up there the population of the state was about a million. It didn't get to the current five + million the old fashioned way (making babies and training them to speak local).Among Colorado peculiarities. The town of Pueblo. Pronounced by old timers pee-eb-low, while newcomers use a more correct approximation of the Spanish origen of the name pweblo. Another mangled spanish name. Buena Vista. Old timers called it byouna vista. Or the ever popular Picketwire River (from the french Purgutoire)

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 06:03:44 am
content: Your not the only one excempt with is a lazy deliberate mangulation CatalinaWOW , one can always tell a tourist out here .Brisbun , Bris baneMelbun , Mel bourneSidnyand all the rest , even the English carnt < talk English , Lon don , Lundon , i once was watching the Queens christmas message live on TV and it went something like this >"Here we are broadcasting from Windsa" the Windsor Castle , i nearly fell off the chair !

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 02:41:56 pm
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 09, 2016, 06:03:44 amWith spelling and grammar like that, I think it's a bit of a cheek to say "even the English carnt < talk English".

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 01:00:37 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on June 09, 2016, 02:41:56 pmA bit of a cheek , i'd say a lot of cheek , that's why the reverse pointing arrow is there at carnt , out here practically no one would hear can t as in kant , there is always a invisible r sound in cant , i carnt understand it all or i kant understand it all .Wot< you say ha ha ha , who hears the true pronunciation of what as in whatt or wha t its nearly always WOT , i figured out the secret code embedded in language , alot of people seem to think those people of the past were stupid and had no sense of humor either when "inventing" words , Neanderthals were stupid , Egyptians flogged everyone with whips , soon there will be sliced bread .What , secret code for Wise Hat , if you know about Wot .all imo of course .

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 01:48:08 am
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 10, 2016, 01:00:37 amWhat? Don't you realise that your spelling, grammar and punctuation make what you write at best difficult to penetrate, sometimes completely incomprehensible and yet you have the nerve to talk about the Queen's pronunciation? Although possibly you might be one of the green ink brigade. Your last two sentences, well word aggregations, tend to lend credence to the latter.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 02:26:44 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on June 02, 2016, 07:56:56 pmThat l is silent

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 02:52:49 am
content: I have heard plenty of native speakers of BrEnglish who don't pronounce the "L" in these words:half, calm, folk, chalk, calf, talk.To be sure, there are some who speak "upper-crust" BrEnglish (at least to our colonial ears)who pronounce those words and sound the "L", but almost always with a very broad "A" before it.But I have never heard anybody pronounce the "L" in these words:could, yolk, salmon.That British-Indian author Salman Rushdie has a first name that sounds like salmon with the "L" pronounced.But it is not the same word, it is a proper name from another language.All your Brits should have free access to the online Oxford English Dictionary. Perhaps you could look up the etymology of the word. I could have sworn that previously posted evidence showed that it was pronounced with silent-L in earlier days, and the sounded-L is only a modern phenomenon.Presumably the sounded-L is Received Pronunciation? Is RP commonly spoken among ordinary people in the UK and the ex-British Empire? Or do we only think it common because that is all we hear from the BBC news-readers?

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 04:20:35 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on June 10, 2016, 01:48:08 amAhhh , the "Queens pronunciation" , i see now , and i guessed so from the start , thanks ...

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 04:26:59 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 10, 2016, 02:52:49 amRichard Crowley , to me (no offense meant btw) your name sounds so English .The 1st time i saw or heard of that Salman Rushdie it was in association of a book it? wrote some years ago and i had a real good belly laugh also at the association or coincidence of Salmon (fish) rush (quick) die (ded) ha ha ...

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 04:34:59 am
content: Quote from: grifftech on June 10, 2016, 02:26:44 amHope the video helped .I'll disagree on the silent L in Solder , I've heard it plenty of times enough to notice it's Sodder and that's it no L whatsoever .I did a joke on another forum which i think might have got me frowned upon and was interestingly refreshing .When a American is using a iron is that American a "Soddermist" .

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:49:12 am
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 10, 2016, 04:34:59 am...you do realize that silent letters are silent, right?

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 02:08:30 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on June 10, 2016, 11:49:12 amYea sure but technically that would apply too if they actually exist in the first place ?Like see those letters here one could call them silent too , (just a example) .

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 02:21:14 pm
content: Got another word too , secret code , HumanWhen a lot of words were being classified and invented to be spelt and quite some time ago one recalls (if actually poking around in history) the religious fever or fervor that was around at the time , some smartarses at that or flat out bigoted and the associated superior club mentality or more accurately the Hive Mind imo , recall that just reading at one time was a actual death sentence generally by barbecuing ..Hue Man , a shade(hue) of man , Human .Edited , LOL i was just about to get out of here and noticed a coincidence , Shade (hue) Shaman (a spooky dude) .

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 04:49:12 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 10, 2016, 02:52:49 amThe etymology of "salmon", yes? The Cassell "Dictionary of Word Histories" has an origin in English of 12-14 century from Old French saumon, from Latin salmo. So I guess the elided 'L' to more closely match the French pronunciation but spelled with an 'L' to match Latin which would have been the commonest written language in England at the time.I wouldn't generally associate the over-sounded 'L' with RP - it depends on the specific word but generally no. If anything there's a tendency for some regional accents and dialects to emphasize Ls in some words (but not all) where it would be understressed in RP. For example, 'film' is pronounced something like fill'm in Liverpool, Yorkshire, Tyneside and others.I think there's a tendency for you "colonials" to associate a somewhat affected English accent with RP, an accent that's closer to what I think of as 'educated New England' (Frasier, Stewie from Family Guy) than to RP. RP is common, but so are strong regional accents and most speakers easily switch between their regional accent and RP depending on who they are talking with. I'll happily switch between London (where I've lived for years), RP (my Mother's accent) and something like a County Durham/Yorkshire hybrid (my Father's accent). Generally working class "blue collar" folk speak with a regional accent, middle class "white collar" folk (especially university educated) speak RP or with a regional accent and the few remaining of the upper classes speak something almost unrecognisable as English. Generally, the more educated you are the more likely you are to speak RP regardless of your origins.As to exactly what constitutes 'BBC English' nowadays that's a bit of a question. The BBC accent up until the mid to late 60's was quite an upper class accent and wasn't really RP. The current BBC newsreader accent is much closer to RP as it is widely spoken but perhaps with a tiny touch more 'posh' than the widespread RP. That said, nowadays many BBC newsreaders have quite identifiable regional accents but I suspect they keep them away from broadcasts intended for overseas consumption.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 06:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 10, 2016, 02:52:49 amAs a British speaker, I would agree that the ell in those words is not sounded in normal speech, especially if speaking fast and conversationally. But apart from folk the ell is still there, and if one were to say the words slowly and carefully the ell would affect the tongue position, causing a slight change in the way the words are sounded. You may or may not hear this, depending on whether your ears are attuned to the accent of the speaker.Folk I think is an exception. I think that folk rhymes with yolk and yolk rhymes with yoke.QuoteWhether or not letters are silent is complicated, especially with the history of English.English is a Germanic language, and if you went back to Old English you would find every letter sounded and each phoneme fully enunciated, much like modern German today.But then you have the Latin influence. In Latin every letter was also pronounced. However, Latin through vulgar Latin gave rise to the Romance languages, one of which was French. Of all the Romance languages, French has deviated furthest from its origins, and in particular French is the queen of the silent letters. So when French influenced English, English got loan words with silent letters in them.Later on, there were grammarians who were sticklers for correctness. They thought English grammar should follow formal rules like Latin, and perhaps there was also an argument that if Latin pronounced every letter, then "proper" English should pronounce those Latin letters too.So in favor of pronouncing every letter we have the Germanic and Latin roots, and for silent letters we have French borrowings and the modern habit towards abbreviation and laziness.Certainly in some cases, English has kept letters where modern French has dropped them. Compare Frenchhôpitalwith English hospital, for instance. (The circumflex over the o indicates the lost s.)

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 08:37:48 pm
content: Not everyone in North America omits the l in solder:https://youtu.be/V1aONINVkSE?t=2811 Weirdly spelled words - and how they got that way.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 04:41:02 am
content: Quote from: GEuser on June 09, 2016, 06:03:44 amMost Brits I have talked to,& most Aussies,for that matter,pronounce Windsor like Bessie does.People from Hampshire (unless they have had their accents corrupted) are the most likely to pronounce it it with the full "sor".

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 08:11:22 pm
content: Any town that ends 'or' is pronounced as if it ends with an 'a'.And by the way, there is no such thing as 'British English' it's just English. By all means if you come from somewhere that speaks a version of English feel free to qualify it, but drop the tautology.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 09:13:14 pm
content: I would not regard "British English" as a tautology as it is not a repetition of the same thing, like e.g. "round circle". "British" is added to distinguish it from other versions of English, in the same way the term "American English" is used.But I think I know what you mean. We would not say that the Flemish speak "Belgian Dutch" either, they speak Dutch, albeit with their own accent and idiosyncrasies. But even though it is the same language, there is enough difference for Flemish TV programmes to be subtitled when broadcast in The Netherlands and vice versa.Funny:

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 10:56:27 pm
content: I'm glad you speak Netherlands Dutch, not Belgian Dutch, both are hard for me to understand without subtitles. I wonder what the people in Surinam or Aruba call your version of Dutch?I think your example of Kevin Bridges is a prime example of there being no 'British English', there are so many accents and dialects, and they're all just English.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 03:23:13 am
content: I think the term "British English" comes from Americans & Australians being nice/PC,when what they really mean is "Limeys/Poms talk funny!"Many of the variations people notice are between different parts ofEngland---we all expect the Scots,Welsh,& those from Northern Ireland to speak differently,but"real Poms"still have so many variables in their pronunciation of words,even after being exposed to the BBC for generations,that is an interesting phenomenon to waste a few postings on.The only time I have heard spoken English which diverged so far from common usage as to be incomprehensible was in 1970s Liverpool,speaking to a couple of young lasses who were evidently going to "The Cave" where the Beatles played years before."Beatles' & "The Cave" were among the few words we could understand,so,as the Ford Popular was not a Tardis,we assumed they said something like"The Beatlesusedto play there",& dropped them at "The Cave" in 1971,not the early '60s when the Beatles played there.I have since spoken to many quite intelligible "Scouses",so maybe that sub-language has since disappeared.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 06:37:09 am
content: Quote from: doobedoobedo on June 11, 2016, 10:56:27 pmIt will probably be something similar for our language as vk6zgo wrote for English.QuotePoint taken.Quote from: vk6zgo on June 12, 2016, 03:23:13 amIn the South East of our country and part of Belgium (in both countries in the province called "Limburg") a dialect is spoken that is quite different from our version of RP. It's more than an accent, yet it's not an official language as Frisian in the North of The Netherlands.But there too, the usage of RP in schools has led to a decrease of the dialect.Language has a strong influence you can't really fight unless you're staying constantly aware of it (very fatiguing). If I think of Dutch actors and actresses who have made it in Hollywood and lived there for lengths of time (e.g. Famke Janssen), you can hear certain influences of English creep in. The fat American R-sound, the order of words, ending of sentences with a translation of "you know?", the intonation. Stuff like that.British in the USA are influenced in a similar way. I remember seeing interviews with Patrick Stewart at the beginning and at the end of the series Star Trek: The Next Generation and noticing how his way of speech had altered. In an interview on Top Gear he even referred to a Jaguar as Ja-gu-ar and then corrected himself putting in a j-sound after the g and commenting on it. This is someone who basically didn't noticeably alter his accent on-screen (at least to me).

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 04:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on June 12, 2016, 06:37:09 amYou've probably never heard Patrick Stewart talk with his natural accent* - which is Yorkshire. You can catch hints of it in the way he speaks normally, but mere tiny hints. Some times you'll hear the inverse, hints of suppressing a natural accent. A Yorkshireman will pronounce the pronoun 'I' as 'ah' whereas RP pronounces it 'aye' - Stewart pronounces it 'aYE', stressing the Y sound slightly as it's unnatural for him to use it so he's had to force it to hit the RP sound.* I take that back - I seem to remember that he uses a Yorkshire accent when he's playing a part in one of Data's attempts at drama in Star Trek TNG.

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 04:58:52 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on June 12, 2016, 03:23:13 amIn which case - I think it's a lesson, don't try to be nice or PC, it can actually be more offensive.Quote from: vk6zgo on June 12, 2016, 03:23:13 amIt's strange you mention Northern Ireland but not the south. Neither are geographically British, although both speak predominantly English.I can assure you that there are still plenty of places where you'd find the locals unintelligible, despite the fact that they're English and speaking said language.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 05:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on June 12, 2016, 04:10:49 pmYou'd be correct. I have a bit of a knack for hearing accents in my own language and English, but as English is not my mother tongue, the fine details are lost on me most of the time.QuoteThat's the sort of thing that's lost on me. It must be more pronounced for me to hear, e.g. someone like Michael Parkinson I would have put somewhere in the North before googling him. Mentioning his name reminds me of a particular interview he did; can you imagine my surprise hearing American actress Gillian Anderson's native accent (or rather, from where she grew up) when all I'd ever heard before was the accent she used in The X-Files? Finally it fell into place why I always thought there was someting "not quite right" the way she spoke in that series.https://youtu.be/fnNwFwKWIyg?t=208She must be one of the (very?) few people that switch between accents (outside of a role) depending on where they are.https://youtu.be/nJsC4LK5W6g?t=221QuoteI had always thought that it was something like Old English he used for that, but now I've found videos of him reciting a poem in Yorkshire dialect.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 09:59:49 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on June 12, 2016, 05:40:14 pmI can see why one might think that if you don't previously know the Yorkshire dialect as it is one of the few places you'll hear "thee" and "thou" in modern English (Some midlands dialects still use them too). One of the failures in the evolution of English is the loss of the distinction between "you" (plural) and "you" (singular) - which is what "thee" and "thou" are.QuoteOh, I definitely do. Put me in a room full of people from North-East England and in half an hour I'll be talking with my Father's accent whereas normally I'll speak RP or with a pronounced London accent - again depending on who I'm with.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 10:17:36 pm
content: QuoteThere are many idiosyncrasies in British English, too, I am sure.American children (speaking for myself, anyway) will naturally pronounce the L when reading the word, until they are taught the correct way. Somewhere in 3rd grade, I think, is where I learned the correct (for Americans) pronunciation.When I see Americans pronouncing the "L" I assume they are pretentiously trying to sound British.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 10:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on June 12, 2016, 09:59:49 pmThe Dutch language still retains those differences and we also have the difference between adressing in the familiar and in the polite/formal form (liketuandvousin French orduandSiein German). What we did away with are most of theconjugationsdeclensions that the German language still has to this day. The Dutch speakers from The Netherlands also don't bother about the gender of words anymore (except biological), but the Flemish do.QuoteI didn't really mean going back and forth between a regional accent or dialect and RP, but between English and American accents, but I guess it's basically the same thing.

author: Nozzer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 11:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on June 03, 2016, 08:11:27 amNorwegian is very confusing too. Bokmål, Riksmål and of course Nynorsk. Danish is my second language though I am rather poor at it. When I visit Norway with non-English speakers I speak in Danish and get replies in Bokmål. It's easier to understand Norwegians than Danes (unless they are from Jutland)!Now a really hard language to understand spoken is Icelandic. It sounds completely different to the way it is written.Telling the time in Bokmål (not to mention German) is a nightmare!https://youtu.be/DkxPoHAJaVI

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 07:56:45 pm
content: Quote from: doobedoobedo on June 12, 2016, 04:58:52 pmEven within the same county, a mere 20 minutes drive or so can mean encountering locals that are all but impossible to understand, yet those hundreds of miles away pose no real problem.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2016, 02:44:25 am
content: Quote from: m100 on June 13, 2016, 07:56:45 pmI don't doubt that is true of the UK. Not so in Australia ?

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2016, 07:22:49 pm
content: Speaking of differences between the different 'types' if English, I just read this morning that the Americans are the ones who write words like 'normalize' the correct way. -ise is not entirely correct (although there are some discussions going on):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-ise.2C_-ize_.28-isation.2C_-ization.29

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2016, 10:13:33 pm
content: Quote from: TinkerFan on June 15, 2016, 07:22:49 pmSince English spelling and grammar is descriptive rather than prescriptive, what is correct depends on what is commonly accepted usage during the period in question. If normalise is accepted by a large enough group of people as a correct spelling, then for them it is correct.

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2016, 11:46:38 pm
content: 'ise' I consider to be the correct way. But 'ize' is also acceptable.It's like asking how many litres there are in a gallon- and how you'd spell 'litres'.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 05:31:41 pm
content: I just stumbled on this YT video to put this thread back on topic:

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 10:26:53 pm
content: I've always had trouble with pronouncing my Rs but that is more a speech impediment than anything else.Some words are pronounced very differently from their spellings in English.For example forecastle which is pronounce more like folk sill. Also lieutenant which the Americans pronounce Loo tenant whilst the English pronounce it Left tenant.Then there is the word route which most English pronounce root but most Americans pronounce the same as the word rout.It is interesting how the same words have come to have different meanings on either side of the Atlantic. As an Englishman I was slightly puzzled when landing by plane in the US to hear the announcer say we'd be "landing momentarily" as to me that meant we'd be landing for only a moment and then taking off again whilst in the US it meant that we'd be landing in a moment.An American friend also pointed out that we (the English) phrase things differently - for example we might say "I took him to hospital" while the American expression would be "I took him to the hospital".

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 04:44:40 am
content: There are also the different meanings applied to some words.For example:'Crook' in the UK is robber or criminal (don't know what may be used in the US).'Crook' in Australia has the same meaning.However, when used in a different context it has a totallydifferentmeaning - "I've beencrookall week" actually means "I've beensick or illall week"I'm not sure of the derivation of the second meaning, whether it is purely Australian or has been 'imported' from elsewhere.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 06:09:37 am
content: Interesting. The subtitles there give the place name as "Hawkestone" when the man said he was from Hoxton. Evidently the person creating the subtitles was neither from London nor even likely from Britain.

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:41:55 am
content: Quote from: IanB on June 18, 2016, 06:09:37 amHave you not been paying attention? How we say and spell place names may have very little relation. Although any place name which ends "tone" or "town" will be abbreviated to "t'n" and it's no great jump to abbreviate "Hawkes" to "Hox"

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:54:39 am
content: Funny , Yesterday i was reading thishttp://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-36550622(look at the words under the Bus picture)

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 06:07:30 pm
content: Quote from: doobedoobedo on June 18, 2016, 09:41:55 amThe point is that the man said "Hoxton", the subtitles spelled it "Hawkestone" but the actual placename is spelled "Hoxton" and has no derivation from "Hawkestone" nor has ever been spelled like that. In fact the derivation is from Anglo-Saxon "Hogesdon", the name recorded for it in the Domesday Book.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 01:26:05 am
content: Be careful when you ask one Englishman about pronunciation of names that come from another area.Many years ago I was in Brixham, looking for a street name of Briseham. Briseham is actually the original name for the town and the pronunciation would have been something like "Briz-h'm", so when I asked what appeared to be a local, they looked confused until they responded "Oh, you mean 'Br-eyes-haaam'".Toffee nosed git.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 10:52:36 am
content: Wow... I would have completely missed that... I would have pronounced it "bricks'em"