Is there anyway to solder to a SOT-23-8 package? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 11:04:57 pm
content: I ordered a whole bunch of radio chips from mouser but I chose a SOT-23-8 package thinking it was bigger. These chips are not tiny they're microscopic! Are these of any use to a hobbyist? If you etch your own boards is that just too small; the traces cant be reliably etched that small?Luckily I only spent about 20 bucks at .80-1.20CAN peso per chip, but its disappointing if these are just really small pieces of trash.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 11:22:06 pm
content: are you sure you're talking about sot23-8 ? that's giant compared to other stuffsot23-8 is roughly 3x3mm footprint so it's not that big and soldering it is roughly the same as soldering a SOIC-8 (another giant SMT package). you just need to start working with those small things and it'll be okafter some time you would not even think about using those ugly giant DIP packagesbtw... i'm a hobbyist , i do my boards in my lab and i'm using components down to 0402, and ics in MSOP, VSOP, 0.5mm pitch quads. you just need to get used to those small packages. a year ago 1206 and 0805 size for passives was my preferred choice. and i was bitching at msop and anything smaller than 0805... now 0603 and 0402 is the default size for passives on my boards and i use the larger components only when needed (power dissipation, putting a trace or even two between pads of a passive.. etc..)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 11:24:01 pm
content: I hand solder them without issues, both on boards I etch myself and commercially made boards. With some care you can dead bug them on copper clad or even glue them on perfboard and solder wire wrap wire to the pins for prototyping. It's not that hard, just takes a steady hand and good eyes or a magnifier.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 11:44:49 pm
content: I would agree with others. If you are serious about electronics, you need to get used to dealing with parts like that, and have corresponding setup. Microscope is a must here. SOT-23 is huge compared to other stuff you get nowadays.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 11:57:48 pm
content: Are you sure you don't mean sot-323? You can do SOT23-8 on veroboard at a pinch!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 11:58:06 pm
content: Microscope would be nice, but it's a luxury I have not had access to. For now my eyesight is good enough to work with fine pitch SMT stuff as long as I have enough light. Sometimes I use a small illuminated loupe for the really small stuff.Adapter boards are available for prototyping many SMT package types, that can make life easier.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 12:09:10 am
content: The frequency your circuit runs at should enter in to your decision of what construction technique to use. A really skillful home brewer might be able to get up to a bit less than one GHz using Manhattan style with mini coax for interconnections of any distance and a few hundred MHz using dead bug. Using a PCB design with lots of vias around ground points makes more sense for RF usually.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 12:10:51 am
content: Designing PCBs for RF is not trivial either. I didn't see any mention of RF here, but yes special considerations will apply in that case.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 12:18:48 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 01, 2017, 11:04:57 pmShould be easy enough, I think it is about 12mil pin diameter, and about the same space between pads, pretty much my "standard easy to achieve" for trace/space.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:13:37 am
content: No this is REALLY small. Heres a view through the lens wouldn't focus that small. Huge red thing on left is a 30ga wire wrap wire that I did my last project with, you are right its not sot 23 this is smaller. How do you connect 6 or eight wires to that? 64 ga wire?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:29:51 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 01:13:37 amShow us photo of your "genuine" sot23 that is soldered to your 30ga wire.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:30:39 am
content: Do you have a link to the exact part you've got?

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:34:21 am
content: Here is it zoomed in through my micro scope:

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:36:19 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2017, 01:29:51 amThat last project was through hole. That's why this seems undoable, I thought through hole was small!Maybe I should stick to vacuum tubes and solder guns with flux in a can.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:37:18 am
content: If this is 0.5 mm wide package, then this is most definitely not SOT23. It is not even SC70, which would be 2mm wide.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:39:18 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 01:37:18 amThis part was found mixed stuck to the back of a yellow esd sticker not part of my order. But now I want to know what it is?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:41:40 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 01:39:18 amAEJW looks like MAX7044, but it is only available in a real SOT23-8, which is 3 mm wide. So this looks like something else.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:00:23 am
content: Now that's a really strange package, never seen that before. Is it really only 0.5mm wide? Thats almost as small as an 0201 resistor...So I'd say unless you have the motoric of a swiss watch mechanic and an IR soldering station, there's no way you could ever solder this thing without a damn precise pick and place machine.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:04:43 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 01:39:18 am

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:12:57 am
content: Solder with this right? Lots of flux, shaped tip to get between the pins.Maybe doable..

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:16:05 am
content: Quote from: m98 on May 02, 2017, 02:00:23 amI would take that challenge. I think it still solderable by hand. Would be cool to know what package is that.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:30:10 am
content: If that package really is 0.5mm long, that would make the space between pins on the order of 0.04mm, or 2 mils, and the pin diameter about the same.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:34:54 am
content: I didn't know there was anything that small with pins at all.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:39:33 am
content: So I started this thread with little hope, then optimism! IT CAN BE DONE!, now its not looking so doable.What ga wire do you use? Solder paste and hot air? Magic??Use law of large numbers pour in enough chip with enough paste with enough solder, and shake for enough time and one will come out soldered perfectly, or maybe all of them. Do they tech you those super task equations in "Freedom School"

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:41:07 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 02:39:33 amI was not talking about wires. It can be soldered to a board.Wires with this size are not soldered, it is ultrasonic welding territory.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:47:30 am
content: So now you guys are saying even with skills I wont be able to use this chip? Just to connect leads to? At least it doesn't take up a whole lot of room in the recycle bin. That's unless a dust mite doesn't eat it thinking it a dead bug, or carry it off. To his dust might house and I can't find it. He could build a transmitter with it if he has enough of little parts that fly off the clippers!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:56:06 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 02:47:30 amI would think it would be soldered to a board and then the traces could come out to pads that could have wires attached at that point. but if you don't have a board set up for it and a hot air soldering system, yea it's gonna be a real bummer.But I am not the relevant expert in this area, so I will defer to more knowledgeable members.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:56:58 am
content: As others have said, can you post a link to what you purchased? You said from Mouser, right? Why are you keeping it a secret?

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:59:44 am
content: Quote from: IanB on May 02, 2017, 02:56:58 amI ordered regular shit that was really small. But this wasn't wrapped, just stuck to one of those yellow ESD warning labels on the inside. I found it by touching it. It was already out side its package so It must have been dropped at the factory and got stuck to the glue on the label as the sorting people were doing there thing. My parts were wrapped sot-8 packages. This was the odd ball.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:11:53 am
content: You can easily use an adapter like this one

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:12:11 am
content: I can't be the only one realising there's no way there's a leaded package that small.Or the only one noticing the regular pattern down the right hand side of that image.Can I?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:14:58 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 02, 2017, 03:12:11 amI did not look close enough, since I did not pick OP as a troll. My mistake, I guess.Quote from: Monkeh on May 02, 2017, 03:12:11 amAnd a chopped shadow does not help either.In that case it is MAX7044, and OP is wasting everyone's time with this stupidity.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:29:15 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 02, 2017, 03:12:11 amI noticed it, hence when I said "if that really is 0.5mm long"... my somewhat delicate way of sayingjust in case the poster is legit but fudged up his measurements ;-)

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:44:17 am
content: I GOT IT maybe.I took a bunch of coper wires out of a head phone ear bud leads and tied them together like a end if a broom sweep. I then put a roll of solder suspended in LOTS OF rosin on the pads. Squashed the whole thing together with the soldering iron flat, flat side to chip rolled side away. Then "unbunched" the copper broom thing and the in between leads the copper wires fell off (being only held on by flux) and I trimmed what was in the middle with super sharp little 1/4" blade right angle surgery scissors. Then clipped of the bunched together side Which wires go to which pin that's for another head ache.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:45:36 am
content: Worst case method, but functional if all else fails...Solder the device down with all pins as a glump of solder, on both sides.Use a solder wick, on all the pins, one side at a time after waiting for cooling.The solder wick should remove the glump, leaving just enough under the pins for a good contact.Don't apply too much pressure otherwise you'll remove too much. It takes a little practice, but I've done some truly fine QFPs this way with a similar pin pitch.When solder wicking, make sure you iron temp isn't too hot or it will melt the other side releasing the part from the PCB.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:46:54 am
content: Don't bother. OP is a troll, hopefully he will go away, or get banned soon.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:48:06 am
content: LOL, all of us is being pranked, the last two photos are edited so poorly.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:49:27 am
content: But seriously can you solder to these sixed leads?It was just a prank, sorry. It was funny.Back on topic. Reasize real tiny,That did take much skill to make all those pics in real time while the forum was responding. My wrist hurts.You say you can solder this blue wire wrap to these 8 pins?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:55:20 am
content: Far from the smallest part I've ever soldered. Not the easiest, but not that hard.Give me a microscope and some tweezers and I could bodge that wire on. I'd rather just solder it to a PCB - easily etch that small.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:56:12 am
content: I this the package all were saying could be done? Still looks too small.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:57:22 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 02, 2017, 03:55:20 amisn't the wire wrap thick then the leads? Do you use flux?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:58:33 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 03:46:54 amIt always happened once in a while, new member which is overly active just in the beginning, probably bored teenager, just watch his post count accelerates throughout the forum. and new threads created, once he is bored, usually will fade away in time.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:59:47 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 02, 2017, 03:55:20 amThen how small is too small for a person? what sot size is that?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:00:06 am
content: Yes, it is possible to solder this by hand on a breakout board.Here is SC70-6, which has finer pin pitch. With 8 pins, it will be a bit harder, but given that this 6 pin was not hard at all, a bit harder is fine.The wires are singe strands from a multi-stranded wire. Forget about that wirewrap stuff.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:03:38 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 03:57:22 amOf course I use flux. You can't solder without it.That wire looks, with jacket, to be about the same as the pitch of the part, so no, it's not too thick.Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 03:59:47 amHow long is a piece of string?I can hand solder 0402s without a microscope. Not everyone can, and some can do it a hell of a lot better than I can. If you can read the contacts with an iron, it can be hand soldered.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:10:34 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2017, 03:58:33 amI was just a little joke during a thread we are all back on topic and sitting in our chairs now. That was hard to do as people were posting. I have circuits to build now and question s to ask. sorry

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:12:40 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 04:00:06 amSo you unstring to get the wire? Can you do that dead bug style?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:15:16 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 04:12:40 amYes, the diameter of the strand shown on the picture is 0.24 mm. I have no clue what gauge it is.And yes, with SOT23 dead bug is easy. That SC70 would be a bit fiddly, but still doable in a pinch.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:19:21 am
content: How long is lag time? I could see myself taking several tries. are theseall in oe ics super heat sensitive?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:21:57 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 04:19:21 amThey are reasonably fine with normal soldering temperatures. You don't want to apply a lot of heat anyway, since already soldered wires will unsolder. Just try and see how it goes. It is only $1 chip, even if you kill a few, it is still a pretty cheap price for the knowledge and skill acquired in the process.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:47:22 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 04:21:57 amNext time which package is ideal for dead bug?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:53:48 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 04:47:22 amDepends on your skill. I find SOIC just about right for relaxed prototyping. But if you can find DIP, go for that.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 05:08:26 am
content: With a pair of tweezers, just bend the even pins down below the package and the odd pins up, The solder the wire at the ends of the pins, you will have double the space to solder with...

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 02:03:07 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 04:47:22 amYou could just buy breakout boards as well.https://www.digikey.com/products/en/prototyping-products/adapter-breakout-boards/643

author: JJalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 07:30:15 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 01:34:21 amSomething doesn't add up. You fail at image manipulation dude.http://www.stealthcopter.com/blog/2010/03/measurement-of-microscope-capabilities/2010-03-27-172126/Edit: Never mind - didn't read the rest of the thread.BR Jonas

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 07:36:02 pm
content: QuoteQuote0.24mm diameter wireis30 AWG.(According to the standard, 30 AWG is supposed to be 10 mils (0.254mm), but in my experience, it is slightly smaller IRL; for me it measures somewhere between 8.3 and 9.2 mils depending on the brand/lot, which is right on 0.24mm... on the maximum end, and if you round up).30AWG kynar wrap wire is about 16 to 18 mils OD with the insulation. Pitch on a SOT23 part is 25.6 mils. You can easily wire a part like this with wrap wire with the insulation still on. If your 30 AWG wrapping wire is any much thicker than this, you are probably using pvc or polyurethane/ester insulated wire.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:22:30 pm
content: So I unwound some 24ga wire and took out the copper strands (was thinner then the wire wrap wire) tinned one and got one of the eight leads soldered to an end pin after much swearing and time. That was it: next try resulted in the first lead coming off and then I think the part melted, felt slippery under the iron which was set at 350'C. I would have smashed it out of frustration but it was too small to smash. So the trick is to use four pads of a board then solder wires to the two in between? Is eight pins just not doable?I like the idea of buying a break out board, where do you guys buy yours? I have 8 and 6 pin packages. Most of these are transmitters with a xtal input gnd vcc mic/data in/out, I guess they are used in things like key fobs. Some are even programmable, I'm still amazed at how much they can fit in those things, we have come so far from vacuum tubes. 10,000 of these chips fit inside a single tube, but do the job of 10,000 tubes. Kind of sad that we ae coming to the limit of transistor size of 50 atoms or so. Can't beat the laws of quantum uncertainty and distance that electrons can "teleport" over.I need to find a good youtube video of how to do this. Seems like you just put paste over all the leads and let the solder mask separate out the spaces.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 11:22:30 pmYou can lift middle pins up, and solder to them.350 C is way too hot. And if your chip melts, then you are applying too much heat. What soldering iron and tip do you use?Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 11:22:30 pmeBay. All sorts of prototyping and breakout boards for ridiculously cheap.Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 11:22:30 pmWatch Louis Rossmann's channel.Quote from: yada on May 02, 2017, 11:22:30 pmNot really. And this has a remote chance at working if you have solder mask. And if you do, then I don't see what the problem is at all.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:32:34 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 11:29:50 pm350C is a perfectly comfortable tip temperature to be able to work with the majority of solder alloys.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:33:43 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 02, 2017, 11:32:34 pmYes, if you have enough dexterity to do a solder joint in a couple of seconds. Not if your chips melt

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:34:12 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 11:33:43 pmThen the problem is not the tip temperature.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:56:30 am
content: QuoteIMO, and it's just an opinion, using flux and an iron is absolutely easier unless you have a board with a lot of passives AND a STENCIL. And even then it is iffy without a PnP machine.350C? Depends on what you're soldering and how. Even with tiny parts on a normal board (not a giant heatsink), if you are simply assembling an FR4 board with a lot of parts, and you are smart about it... setting them all up at once, then turning on the iron.... you may want to turn up the heat a bit to decrease your dwell time and increase your output. On a board that you are reworking (i.e. doing surgery on) you will probably be better off much lower... not because you are going to burn the board (unless a clutz, IMO), but because taking longer to flow a joint is going to be a small tradeoff against the extra tip cleaning/prep you have to deal with when idling at high temp but hardly doing any actual soldering.Checking the temps on my 888D presets, the highest I have actually set and use with decent frequency is 355C. And this is for batch drag soldering of SSOP IC's on a thin FPC board... not for soldering huge heatsink tabs. My analog must have different calibration. It lives at around 340-350 and I bump it to 360-370 for batch soldering.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 01:14:00 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 02, 2017, 11:29:50 pmI actually got the idea from lois rossmans channel. He takes a really hot hakko iron like the one I have, runs a bead of solder paste over the contacts then soldered on an iPhone strip connector with 10 pins that were much smaller then the tip to the board and the solder just seemed to go where it was supposed to. I think I need a micro scope I tried the one pin up one down on the two pins on the middle and just seemed to bend both up/down. After these chips I'm going to be more careful in ordering larger packages, but seems every thing is in these really small sizes. Forget dip, only things still in those are 555 timers it seems.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 01:32:32 am
content: SOT23-8 is certainly smaller, half the SOIC-8 pitch...http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/p8_0/p8.064.pdfsometime i fixed and replaced SOT23-8 parts somewhere, but its not fun compared to SOIC, its doable but i will not buy it as regular stock parts for my own design unless there is no bigger alternative to it such as GHz RF transceiver/amplifier. otoh i have bunches of sot23-3 transistors stockhttp://www.e-devices.ricoh.co.jp/en/products/product_power/pkg/sot-23-3.pdfthey are easier to solder, smaller things also have some benefit in small circuit board design. i also stock few sot23-6 pic10f206 and attiny10 mcus (0.95mm pitch), harder to solder but it pays off in small design. the key points for this 0.65mm pitch ant world is:1) solder flux lots of it.2) the right amount of solder3) solder braid to remove bridges4) magnification scope5) flux cleaner6) practice and patientand lastly (7) a good pair of eyes, thats the utmost god given free granted asset, thats why you should take care of that since the beginning at least by exercising it morning and evening and eat lots of apples (if you dont have anything else better for the vitamin C supplement). and last but not least  a steady hand, so dont get old. ymmv...

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 01:35:12 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 01:14:00 amIt does, provided you have solder mask and a lot of flux. This is called drag soldering.Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 01:14:00 amBut PCBs are dirt cheap - just make a proper PCB. You would need one for the RF stuff anyway.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 05:01:25 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 03, 2017, 01:35:12 amYou saying cheap when you make them your self? I have HCl and H2O2 to etch and can get copper clad but I don't have a laser printer. Is that a deal breaker? Would a layer of masking tape and a pin razor blade make acceptable etched for these little packages?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 05:03:23 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 05:01:25 amNo, cheap when you go to OSHPark or PCBWay, or any other board house and order professionally made boards with solder mask and silk screen.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 05:09:58 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 03, 2017, 05:03:23 amI just fuck about with this hobby and rarely put more effort in then waiting for things to arrive offline. Often by the time a part arrives I'm already on to another circuit and the new parts end up in the parts drawer.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 05:15:49 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 05:09:58 amWell, I can't help you here. If you lose interest in a project in two week time frame, then you probably won't get too far with this hobby.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 11:58:38 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 05:09:58 amLOL.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 08:15:32 pm
content: Quote7) tip selection. The right tip for the part will be able to bring ample solder to the fluxed joint but only leave enough to form the joint. Any excess preferentially stays on the tip, despite you may touch/solder multiple pins at once; there is no issue. There is a right size/shape tip for practically any IC. The pins on components like IC's are designed for this. OTOH, the structural needs for certain parts (e.g. FPC connectors) may dictate a shape/tallness of the pins which makes them bridge. (On an FPC connector, the pins are extensions of the connectors, so they end up too tall for the pitch). Here, you may find good luck with solder paste and/or solderwick... or the old standby of going point to point with tiny solderwire and a fine tip. Of course, as far as OP may be concerned, wanting to solder jumper wires to these parts, this does not apply. The tip must be small enough to hit individual pins without touching the last blobby joint, and this is where fine pitch SMD is a PITA. For deadbugging with fly wires, SOIC is plenty small enough, though as previously stated, 30AWG wrapping wire is plenty small enough for even SSOP/SOT23-8, as long as it's the kynar stuff. For me, a microscope would be mandatory at this point.When people claim SMD is easier than through hole, it is true. But they are talking about assembling a printed circuit board. If you are stringing together a prototype without any pcb, yes, you ought to be more careful about your packages.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:27:58 pm
content: So my first try using the phone as a microscope. I seem to get 4 pins soldered but two look bridged together. Even if I could get wirewrap wire to this part, I cant seem to find any marking to see which end of the chip is which, and it got spun around after I took it out of the tape. There must be some sort of marking to see which end is which? Maybe that glob of solder is hiding the print or it was melted off. This is a complex chip so I don't know of an easy way to take a meter to it like a transistor.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:29:32 pm
content: You need way more flux, your solder joints are "cold".Also, the first pin is clearly marked with a dot. You can clearly see it on your photoshopped images. In this case it is on the bottom right.Also, this is a really crappy protoboard. Get proper stuff with solder mask.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 10:27:58 pmGoing from trying to solder a wire to pins to soldering to a board is completely different as there is a massive difference in thermal mass. The chip on its own has very little thermal mass and tiny tips can be used. Add it to a board/PCB and the thermal mass is many times more, larger tips and/or more heat is normally required. Soldering 101.When the right balance of tip/temp to mass is found soldering becomes easy. Too much heat burns away the flux just as too much time on the joint, the remedy is clean, more flux and/or more flux cored solder.There's no rules, practice makes perfect.Oh and BTW, make sure you are not using that PB free muck.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 12:22:47 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on May 03, 2017, 08:15:32 pmi dont find it too important to me as i use normal blunt tip that came with my iron (see attached), one tip for all dip, soic, sop you name it. in fact i find it much better result than my small sharp tip temp control station AD985+ iirc china clone (maybe because cloned tip, or cloned station or just wrong temp setting i'm not sure). my hakko iron got a button thats always usefull if i find iron tip is not hot enough, the key is practice. for smaller pitch work, for deadbug wire jumper, pre tin both pin and wire and than connect with just a slight dab from the cleaned but fluxed tip, otoh on masked or non masked board, almost always bridge will form, the key here is fluxed solder braid/wick. a few wick pass usually work like magic, whats left is the right amount of solder on each pin. all this i use bare eyes since i'm not comfortable something on my eye (scope) while soldering. scope only is used later for checking the integrity of the job.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 10:30:27 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 10:27:58 pmGet a break-out board,Use a $60 hotair gun and solder paste to put the sot on the breakout. The paste contains the flux that will create the surface-tension to pull and align the part on the pads. You can then use the breakout with standard 2.54" for breadboards as well as veroboard projects. With practice it will take about one minute, so it's worth learning.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 12:07:36 pm
content: Quote from: julian1 on May 04, 2017, 10:30:27 amThat's a great idea for him julian1, except for one thing -Quote from: yada on May 03, 2017, 05:09:58 am

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 07:43:44 pm
content: QuoteSo one of these tips performs better for you for certain things than the other. Just imagine if you had more than 2 to choose from. The dissappointment you got from the "sharper tip" could go the other way.... and you could be amazed at how much BETTER a tip could be for given task than the one you are using. The fact you assume a smaller tip should be better for SMD might be iffy. In general, when assembling SMD parts, I am trying to use the LARGEST appropriate tip I have which will have the "resolution" to maneuver without tinning unintended copper. I used nothing but a regular conical for many years and I can still solder anything with it. And yet, I very rarely use a conical, anymore; I work with mostly small pitch SMD, and there's almost always a better tip for the task... imo. For SMD stuff, this is almost always some form of CF or spoon or knife (for me, personally), esp for assembly. But also for rework; small CF tips are pretty hard to beat for point to point rework. (E.g. 1mm CF preloaded with solder enough for the one joint/jumper wire - the bead on the end acts like the end of the tip and you don't need a third hand to feed the solder. This is handy when you screwed up a board and have to connect jumpers to tightly packed small vias, for instance.... vias so small they won't pre-tin without the wire in place, already... which would need 3 hands to do with a conical tip!) It's super rare for me to have to pull out the BR or fine conical. (And mayhap I'm the odd duck, but I have never found place in SMD work where a chisel isn't crap. I suppose they could be the ticket to get small smd passives onto a huge ground pour.)Anyhow, I spent two years using a Rat Shack with the pure copper tips which needed to be filed/sanded every few minutes. I moved on to a cheap temp controlled station and used the basic medium conical for a few years. The tips cost only 2.00, and each one lasted close to a year. It made sense at the time. I was hacking together the odd prototype/circuit and still doing a lot of breadboarding vs pcb prototyping with SMD. I got a Hakko and finally tried a few different tips when opportunity arose to save a few bucks and greatly simplify the logistics vs outsourcing some smaller assembly jobs. It's easy to go overboard. I have something like 20 different tips. It's hard to hold back when you find out how much better X is than Y for given task. It's almost like discovering magic. Like a caveman that is handed a Bic lighter after years of making fires with a bow and a stick. There aren't really that many useful tips for SMD work, though, IMO. I could do with about 5 or 6 of them. The rest didn't pan out.I could throw out 15 of them. But I would pay $100+ for the good ones, if that's what it cost. They would pay themselves off in the end.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 08:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 04, 2017, 12:22:47 amYou use that huge thing in place of the pencil type soldering iron?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 09:10:04 pm
content: exactly that. you dont have to use tiny tip to do the job...https://youtu.be/wUyetZ5RtPshttps://youtu.be/TAUHV5myhx4