BUYER BEWARE! Fake Chinese "Intel 82599ES X520-DA2" Network Cards - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 10:40:12 am
content: I thought I'd make a post mainly so that Google's scrapers will index the relevant keywords for the next person.I recently purchased a bunch of "Intel X520-DA2" 10 Gigabit NICs off from eBay seller "digiorange". Knowing full well that there are a bunch of these and similar counterfeit cards being sold online. This particular seller had clear photos of the item (or so I thought) which depicted real Intel cards.The seller in this case was selling what purported to be genuine Intel for around the same price one would expect these cards to go for in used condition. The photos in the listing were what appeared to be genuine cards, complete with the Intel logo on the PCB.However upon receipt, I received cards with the classic telltale signs of fake Chinese junk, it was even missing the silk screened Intel logo from the PCB (see attached photo). Full credit to this page in helping identify fake cards:https://sviko.com/t/how-to-distinguish-10-gigabit-network-card-intel-x520-da2-from-chinese-fakes/37There were other obvious signs from the link above, including the packaging and the heatsink mount were incorrect and clearly not genuine Intel.I contacted the seller who replied:"dear buyer we have sold 140+ pcs and have no one met a problem so can you just test it and you can try it works or not?after that any problem you can contact us".In other words: "We know they are fake, just try it and see if they work and let's not speak anymore of it".Needless to say I filed a claim and got my money back and ebay removed the offending listing. However they are back with more fake cards (and slightly amended photos and description). They've also contacted me twice in the mean time to try to get me to change my feedback left on their profile. Screw them!If buying Intel NICs online, be certain you are getting the real deal! Unless you know what to look for, you can be easily fooled.EDIT:Sorry, wrong link above. Corrected. I'll also point out that not all genuine Intel NICs have the Yottamark hologram sticker on them. The actual Intel cards I have are from OEMs like Dell and IBM, they generally don't have them.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 01:29:42 pm
content: ...so what are they, actually?

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 05:31:37 pm
content: Just looked at their profile:https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/digiorangeI see the seller is from China and looks like they own warehouses in Australia.I use to check the bottom of the page to see the details on where the seller is but I can't find it apart from their profile.Nothing at the bottom about their contact info or where they are in China.I thought when running a business on Ebay you have to declare your real name and address.https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Intel-I350T4V2BLK-PCI-Express-PCI-E-Four-RJ45-Gigabit-Ports-Server-Adapter/113029486002Also I see"No returns accepted"which doesn't sound very good considering it is a "new" item.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 09:13:59 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on April 14, 2020, 05:31:37 pmDoesn't matter, if you mark the item as new and it is defective or counterfeit then you can return it.They just don't want returns for no reason.Quote

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 09:47:50 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on April 14, 2020, 01:29:42 pmNo idea. I wasn't even going to bother taking them out from their packaging and wasting my time with them.Not sure if they even have Intel chips on them. From all reports, they at least use Intel drivers, so determining a fake in software is difficult.Quote from: MrMobodies on April 14, 2020, 05:31:37 pmYep, so the address came from a genuine Australian address not far from Sydney, but the "company" name was something entirely different. It looks like just any other warehouse/commercial complex with multiple units. Admittedly I didn't see that the seller was from China until after I purchased, normally I steer clear of Chinese sellers, I even added a filter for Australia Only and these still showed up.

author: Johncanfield
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 09:53:02 pm
content: I bought a used rubidium precision oscillator from a Chinese Ebay seller. He had "100%" seller satisfaction bla bla bla. Product was guaranteed bla bla. It took 3 or 4 weeks for it to arrive and went out of lock after 2 hours. Then the message exchanges started and he finally agreed to take it back so I spent about $30 US for postage to China.He was a real con artist, by this time Ebay shut off my ability to give the seller a bad rating. He kept telling me the package never arrived bla bla bla. About three months later guess what showed up in my mailbox - my rubidium oscillator. That slimeball never picked up the package.His Ebay seller name was/is "Tradespotting." These people know how to game the system, they do it on Amazon with bogus product reviews.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 10:05:58 pm
content: Quote from: Johncanfield on April 14, 2020, 09:53:02 pmYou're absolutely right. The sad thing is, they think everyone is as stupid as they are.I know buying stuff like this is risky on ebay, which is why I was careful about buying from sellers which lacked detail or had low resolution photos, however on this occasion the seller (digiorange) was just outright misleading and lied on the listing. They didn't deny it when I caught them out but at least they didn't put up a fight. The refund process was quick and smooth. Even if they wanted to argue it, they had nothing to fall back on.The only reason I was looking at ebay was I didn't mind second-hand cards since I'm using them at home. Brand new cards from my suppliers are something like AUD$500 each and I needed at least 3 of them!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 10:13:25 pm
content: I can't believe someone would try to pull that crap with high end scientific equipment. We (nerds) aren't dumb, we'll find a way to had their asses to them.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 02:55:47 am
content: I bought a Intel X9000 cpu for a laptop of mine, I got a fake cpu in return, it didn't work, and I found no references to the markings anywhere... I even contacted Intel to see if they knew what it was.. They did not... lolThey also had a real Genuine cpu pictured on their store page.Ebay refunded me after I proved what I got wasn't what was pictured.I ended up buying another one from a different ebay seller, it was thankfully genuine and is working to this day.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 04:24:00 am
content: Why not just avoid ebay altogether and buy from some place with a proper dispute system? At least on aliexpress the seller can't stall you (when a dispute starts the purchase protection timer is stopped), and you will be able to write a negative review even if a long dispute process happened. I can't believe in this day and age ebay still hasn't got their shit together and implemented basic transaction semantics when their job is running an ecommerce platform.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 04:26:25 am
content: Quote from: OwO on April 20, 2020, 04:24:00 amWell, for a start Aliexpress is bloody awful. Random captchas, failed logins, broken pages, useless search engine, and enough Chinglish to make finding products impossible..E: Hell, it just triggered me again.. Signed in, went to my orders to check something, went to go to another page, "You have signed in to your account. You can now directly access your account." Who put this thing together?!E2: Again, within a minute..E2.5: AGAIN on the very next click..E2.6: A fourth time..

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 04:37:12 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on April 14, 2020, 10:13:25 pmThey do it because it works. For every person who files a claim and gets a refund, there are probably at least 10 more who either just cut their losses and forget about it or don't realize they got taken until after the window has expired. You just have to submit a claim right away if you are certain the item is fake.I'd be curious to know what these network cards turn out to be. If they do have genuine Intel chips it's possible they're an OEM product rather than a branded retail item. In that case they may not necessarily be fake, but it's still shady to sell them using a picture of the real deal. I'd at least try one out to see if it works properly.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 04:50:34 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 20, 2020, 04:37:12 amSalvaged parts on, let's say, cost optimized reference boards. Apparently.I can't fathom why you'd want to take the risk anyway when there's a glut of perfectly good, cheaper, not-remanufactured cards available.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 12:06:00 pm
content: I have 540 transactions on Ebay, And of those, I have never felt scammed when everything has been said and done....I've always got my money back or a new item if there has been any issues.As for Aliexpress.. I have 60 orders on thereIt can be a pain to get a hold of a person to talk to, but if/when you do, they can usually resolve any issue quickly..I have incident though.. it's ongoing, I bought an item, and the seller is refusing to ship.. He says it's due to covid 19, and he want's ME to cancel..Well, he is still 0ffering the same item with free shipping.. so I am dealing with that...I don't know how many orders I have on banggood because they reset them after a site migration a few years ago, it's showing 43. Banggood is usually decent to deal with because they don't offer too much scam stuff, they require good pictures and bad items are removed relatively quickly.I stopped using deal extreme. Prolly 50 or so orders there too.I rarely have any issues shopping from overseas...

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 02:20:11 pm
content: What's the performance of this device? Does it match the original part?As of Intel logo, etc, about 15 years or so ago I bought an intel NIC from a reputable distributor. There was absolutely no indication that it was produced by intel. May be only chip number, but no intel logo or something. It did use intel drivers. Performance-wise it was fine.My best guess is, Intel either hired or acquired a company to did NICs for them. I think I saw raid controllers and other server equipment under Intel brand, that were not based on Intel components. But that was a very long time ago.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 05:25:53 pm
content: I bought two Intel branded SAS controllers from China, brand new in box, brown paper boxes with no documentation or markings.They've been working 24/7 for 5+ yearsI guess it's a lottery what you get though.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 07:05:06 pm
content: The shown card is obviously a DELL-OEM-card, most likely genuine Intel, but no Intel markings.Look for yourself with the part# G18786-002 on Google.So while you didn't receive what you ordered, the card you received is still technically "OK" and usable. Still a reason for a return, of course...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:25:31 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 20, 2020, 04:50:34 amBased on what evidence?They look like high quality PCBs with reputable brand components. I don't have one in my hands to look at it closely but from the pictures I see nothing that suggests they're salvaged parts or cheap knockoffs. I suspect they're simply unbranded OEM boards made specifically for a company that is using them in their products. I see no evidence to suggest there's anything wrong with them, but again you'd have to test one to know for sure.What risk? Again on what proof are you basing the assertion that these are remanufactured? Maybe you're seeing something that I'm not or have personally inspected one of these boards?*Edit: Just saw the post immediately above mine, Dell OEM, so yeah, precisely what I suspected, these are genuine cards manufactured for Dell, thus the lack of Intel retail markings. You see stuff like this in any big brand machines, Dell, Lenovo, HP etc.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:30:53 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 20, 2020, 09:25:31 pmI did say apparently. Never said I believed it. The supposed evidence just looks like different manufacturers and OEM cards to me.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:42:47 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on April 20, 2020, 07:05:06 pmI've worked a lot with Dell and IBM OEM components and even then they still do retain Intel branding a lot of the time. I have a bunch of Dell NICs at home all with Intel logos. Even on Dell's own website, those cards are pictured with the Intel logo on the PCB.It wasn't just the lack of branding which set off alarm bells:- Components were physically in different locations to genuine Intel cards.- The heatsink assembly was physically thinner and used entirely different mounting pins.- The box was completely unmarked (no OEM part numbers or labels).- The CD in the box just said "Network Card" in Intel colours. No branding or OEM part numbers.I think it's unlikely with was a Dell OEM part. It just didn't look right to me and my gut feeling was that it was a fake Chinese card that emulated Intel. The fact that the seller never refuted that they were fakes/counterfeit was also a concern.Quote from: exe on April 20, 2020, 02:20:11 pmNo idea, I didn't even bother to test it. I sent them straight back to the seller. Even if they did work as one would expect, how do you know what the chip is really doing? It could be anything from not supporting standard Ethernet features to even packet capture/analysis.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:48:58 pm
content: It couldn't possibly just be a different revision card to those you've seen..Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 09:42:47 pmSo why are you buying anything off eBay at all? If you're actually concerned about that (which is hilarious because why would they even bother?), what on earth are you doing buying from an auction site instead of directly from an authorised distributor?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on April 20, 2020, 07:05:06 pmIt looks like they either did remove the intel silkscreen from the masks, or scrub it manually with solvent/sandpaper, hard to tell from OPs photo.https://www.dell.com/community/PowerEdge-Hardware-General/Duplicate-MAC-address-of-two-different-X520-DA2-NICs/td-p/6033749

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:52:59 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 20, 2020, 09:48:58 pmAs explained above, these are for my home lab. Through my distrubuters, those cards are expensive and I was happy to settle for used cards. I ended up buying four genuine cards for almost the same price as one brand new one. I don't have thousands of dollars to throw around just for network cards. Just because I'm using them at home, it doesn't mean I should settle for anything less than the genuine product. I don't see why that's hilarious at all? There are plenty of legitimate sellers on ebay and I ended up sourcing them from an Australian company who does systems integration for data centres and IP video networks. They had some cards they pulled out of some servers which weren't being used anymore.As I also mentioned, there was more than just the lack of Intel markings. All these small things didn't sit right with me and history says, my gut instinct is usually right, so I went with that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:57:27 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 20, 2020, 09:50:30 pmNope, it isn't hard to tell. You cannot simply scrub silkscreen from solder mask without leaving some very noticeable signs of abuse. Solvent won't help removing it without solder resist damage.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:00:05 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 09:52:59 pmThinking someone with the capacity to create a fake, functional 10GigE card which performs packet capture and analysis to collect data would use eBay as a method of distribution, is hilarious. And if they did create such a card to slip into the supply chain of real targets, that they'd be so sloppy as to remove logos (oohhh, but the copyright!) and otherwise provide clear external indication of a difference between the genuine article and their spyware, while going to all the effort of using the same silkscreen font, component identifiers, and locations, is rather amusing also..The most likely explanation is these are from an excess production run of a revision you're not familiar with - probably because they swapped up to a newer chipset instead of using these cards. That can easily explain the heatsink and its mounting hardware differing in several ways, all of which are more likely than fake cards with, and I'll quote your, uhm, reference, here, 'rebolled' and 'fed and sealed back' controllers, or spyware devices.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 20, 2020, 10:00:05 pmMaybe, maybe not. The point is, I can't definitively say who manufactured those cards nor can I be certain of their origin.Why risk it? I think it's safer to make an informed decision than to just put up with it and hope for the best. That's just my personal way of thinking.At the end of the day, I didn't get the product I ordered. I was willing to accept the negligible risk of a used, genuine card but I was absolutely not going to accept the risk by using one of dubious origin or authenticity. I think that's fair?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 09:52:59 pmReally? Unless I'm blind, something does not add up with this statement. And if you did some actual research, you would notice there iszerodifference with cards containing intel logo, even same brand inductors were used. Even when compared with picture of genuine card from the genuine vs fake link you provided, it's 100% the same as genuine.EDIT: heatsink has small difference. EDIT2: But then when compared to graphics cards, reference boards are often soldered at the same factory for Nvidia, then each brand slaps their own heatsink.Your card:

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:18:11 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 10:03:48 pm.. And did the listing claim it was an Intel retail card, or did you just see a photo with an Intel logo on it and assume every single functionally identical card produced over the last 10 years by different fabs for different customers would have such?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 20, 2020, 10:12:04 pmAre you kidding me with this? You post a photo of a seemingly identical card and you expect me (and others) to simply take your advice?You're an idiot. Of course I did my reasearch and no I'm not blind. I also don't take advice blindly from belters on internet forums without some independant research to either support or dispute my findings.Quote from: Monkeh on April 20, 2020, 10:18:11 pmYes, they purported to be a genuine Intel card. I understand how different revisions and fabs work.Why are you both critising me on my descision? I explained WHY I came to the conclusion I did, whether it was right or wrong, I wasn't willing to accept the risk. I still think too many things about them didn't add up. Unless you have something constructive to add, I'm done.Yes I could have done further testing, but I chose not to on the balance of probabilities. I initiated a case to get a significant sum of money back. That was the right decision to make, in my opinion, on this occasion. You might have viewed or done things differently and that's totally acceptable too.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:32:38 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 10:25:08 pmI could throw that straight back at you, and at the post you linked to.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:34:19 pm
content: Lets not do personal attacks.Quote from: wraper on April 20, 2020, 09:57:27 pmYou could solvent -> reapply solder mask. But yeah the sviko photos are clear enough to see there is no scratching in that area. So they are some kind of second shift build.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:40:12 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 10:25:08 pmYou shut down ebay listing with what appears to be a perfectly good card. Heck, when I was selling raspberry pi on ebay, I would be pretty annoyed if someone shut down my listing because they received a board which looked slightly different, because many of them were slightly different. Not to say you gave negative feedback. Literally calling them selling fake.Quote

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:53:52 pm
content: Something similar seems to have been happening with other Intel NICs, though the fakes can often be incredibly good and bear all the right markings. It's to the point you're not even sure what are actually fakes, although a lot of failures after a few months are reported. It's annoying as it pretty much negates the reason to opt for these cards known for their bullet proof performance. If you're getting questionable junk you're better off buying a cheap brand new NIC.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 10:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 20, 2020, 10:40:12 pmThat's your opinion. I'll already repeat that the seller at no point disputed this in any communications. Nor did they response to my negative feedback claiming that I was lying. They also reworded their other listings for similar cards. That suggests to me they are knowingly being misleading.Also, that photo you posted could have come from anywhere. If you have a look at Intel's own product brief, it shows a card with several but subtle differences.https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/network-io/ethernet/network-adapters/ethernet-x520-server-adapters-brief.htmlThe genuine cards I have at home are quite different. You know as well as I do, some fakes look pretty convincing and some of the crap coming out of China looks real (not just NICs but technology and products in general).Without doing further indepth analysis on the cards the seller is listing, it's impossible to come to a 100% definitive answer. Feel free to buy one and knock yourself out. But as I said, based on my experience and observations, what I received appeared to be replicas. My biggest concern was the heatsink, it didn't look like the usual Intel quality and was held together with some crappy clips. There are reports of fake Intel cards with the exact same design overheating and failing. This is not something I wanted to risk as 10 Gig cards do get quite warm.I stand by my decision and I felt it was the right one. You might have done things differently, but that doesn't make other people incorrect.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 04:12:48 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 20, 2020, 10:03:48 pmSafer in what way? Are you using these in some kind of mission critical medical or aerospace application? What's the worst that could happen if one fails? How do you know one with an Intel logo on it won't fail? How do you know if one with a logo on it is genuine?IMO these look totally legit to me, they're *way* too nicely made to be cheap knockoffs. They're OEM cards of a different revision than you're familiar with. At the last hardware company I worked we typically made 4 or 5 different revisions of a product throughout the lifecycle. Same model number, same front panel but we'd use a different RAM chip, a different WiFi chipset, a different power supply, etc. The PCB layout was different, often smaller, the solder mask color was sometimes slightly different, logos were moved around or changed. They were all genuine of course but you could have several different devices that all looked noticeably different inside.The seller should have used a picture of the exact cards being sold, that's the only thing I can fault them for. You don't seem interested in trying to definitively prove the cards to be fake or defective in some way, you've already decided you don't trust them. The only honest thing to do if you got a refund is return them to the seller.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 05:35:15 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 21, 2020, 04:12:48 amNo, as already stated I was using them at home. You took the word "safer" too literally. I questioned the authenticity of the cards and I made an assessment based on what I had in front of me, my experience and what I knew of this particular model card.What's the worst that could happen? I lose hundreds of dollars and end up with a bunch of dead cards.How do I know the fake card wouldn't fail? I don't. I never used them.How do I know the ones I have are genuine? Because they came from a reputable company that I trust with a tax invoice and all of the concerns I had with the previous cards were not evident on my current lot.I will admit that they fake cards don't look bad. I've seen far worse and I spent quite a while second-guessing myself and doing some research. And yep, maybe you are right, they could be a different revision. But even if that was true, the heatsink assembly on my current cards is much more solid and fixed to the PCB with better push clips. No to mention the complete lack of any OEM part numbers anywhere, which is unlike Dell, IBM or Lenovo.It also doesn't negate the sellers suspect responses and behavior. Even now, they have cards listed where they have deliberately blurred out the Intel logo in the photos, why? As I said right from the start before people jumped down my throat, it wasn't just one or two things I suspected, it was a number of different things which didn't sit right with me. Why would I take the risk?None of the suspicious I have raised would be enough to be concerned about by themselves, but together they start to paint a fairly negative picture. You guys are basing your opinion off one photo, I had the cards in my hand and I had serious doubts.Yes, you're right, I'm not interested in proving that the cards are fake. I no longer possess them, they were returned to the seller. What more do you want me to do?I would have loved them to be genuine, it would have saved me the hassle of a return and seeking a refund.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 05:38:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 21, 2020, 04:12:48 amNot only that, but I'd say it is impossible to recreate a multilayer PCB of this complexity, looking exactly the same, every thruhole at the exactly same location.This leaves only (2) 3 options:- genuine OEM- unauthorized production run- "hostile takeover" (aka theft) of the product designpoint (3) is unlikely, as the components are still expensive and the market is so smallpoint (2) is possible, there are reports of duplicate MACs it seems, that could be a manufacturing issue though

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 05:53:13 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on April 21, 2020, 05:38:12 amThe components weren't in exactly the same location at all. Ignore the photowraperposted, he probably just grabbed that off Google images somewhere because it suited his argument. I mentioned from the very start the the cards looked different in several ways to what I've seen in both OEM and retail versions of Intel NICs over the years. Had they have looked like the photos in the original listing, I probably wouldn't have even thought to second-guess it. Fake Intel cards have been doing the rounds for a long time on sites like ebay and they are well documented.Just for shits and giggles, I just went and lifted the lid on some of the Dell PE R710 servers we decommissioned. All of the add-on 10 Gbit NICs (which were installed by Dell) have Intel logos. As I also mentioned, the cards for that particular model on Intel's website look different.Does all this mean the cards that I returned are 110% irrefutably fake? No, absolutely not. But as I have repeated, there were too many inconsistancies to simply ignore and chop it up to a different revision. Had the seller come back to me and said "There are OEMs from bla" no problems, it would give me another lead to investigate. But when I bluntly advised them that I believe them to be fake, to come back with "just test them anyway" is a bullshit response.It seems like some people are critising me for using my brain and questioning things rather than blindly accepting them, all based off some forum posts and a single photo.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 05:58:55 am
content: More like you shouldn't have bought from ebay if it being "genuine" is important to you, as opposed to just getting something that functions the same as the original.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 06:03:27 am
content: Quote from: OwO on April 21, 2020, 05:58:55 amI gave my reasons for doing this. If you would like to donate AUD$2000, I'll go and buy some brand new ones from my supplier, it would be greatly appreciated!Selling on ebay doesn't excuse people for trying to pass off fake products as genuine. I don't accept your logic that just because it was purchased on ebay, then I should just wear it.EDIT: In fact, this thread has spiralled out of control with what started off as constructive, to basically critisicing some very valid evidence-based decisions. I'm recommending it be locked. Those who read it can make up their own minds based on what has been provided already.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 06:22:48 am
content: Agreed, and locked