IKEA and W(TF?) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 07:45:39 am
content: Time to turn on the EEVBlog, how many watts here?

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 09:12:15 am
content: So for example in AC they are 3,8W and un DC 5,4w?Anyway I am missing a "max" in the description...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 09:20:09 am
content: Chinese mA is less than the European ones. That is how they make all the batteries 10.000 mAh for example.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 09:48:57 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 02, 2017, 09:20:09 amSo true

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 10:20:52 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 02, 2017, 09:20:09 amThis needs to be upvoted. Can I upvote so it goes to top?Guess it does not work like this here.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 11:35:00 am
content: Quote from: zucca on December 02, 2017, 09:12:15 amLook at any other device in your home and check how current matches with power.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 11:46:03 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on December 02, 2017, 10:20:52 amWhy? In regards to the topic this is nothing more than irrelevant joke.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 12:14:30 pm
content: One should test the:- 200 lm- 2700 K- 36°Many times these values on low cost Chinese products will be far away from any rating or label.Who knows, may be IKEA does not even have an electronics lab in the EU to test these things.Usually the IKEA electric appliances and electronics items, get rated the lowest in comparison test's,at least here in Germany.

author: meeder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 12:31:40 pm
content: Like their kitchen appliances which are basically relabled Whirlpool crap.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 02:16:40 pm
content: I have heard from many people that Whirlpool is crap nowadays. Well, my grandma has a washing machine Whirlpool AWG640 bought in 1999, that still works.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 02:52:45 pm
content: There is another thread where quality is dicussed. My eperience with Whirlpool is reported at that thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/things-used-to-lasts/msg1291425/#msg1291425

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 03:01:52 pm
content: A lot of brands have gone to shit in the last couple of decades. I have a Whirlpool washer and dryer bought in 1997 that still works fine, but since I'm single I'm sure it's seen much less than average usage. My grandfather bought a GE refrigerator when I was a kid, back in the 50s. It was still running when he died 40 years later.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 03:15:31 pm
content: Probably nothing as for sinusoidal AC, ohm's law (extented) is:\$P=U\times I\times COS(\varphi )=ActivePowerInWatts\$..and for some reason it seems to be the standard to give only active power rating for household products.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 04:26:16 pm
content: Stay away from IKEA led lamps my mom got (new all made in china) 3 different wattage lamps that all got so hot she burnt her fingers. Clearly something is funky in the electronics , besides dont support a company who does planned taxation hiding untaxed wealth in Luxembourg i told my mom. I returned the lamps.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 04:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on December 02, 2017, 03:15:31 pmThe reason is households do not pay for reactive power

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 05:01:12 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on December 02, 2017, 12:14:30 pmThat's typically true for large appliances like dishwashers etc.. But the IKEA LED lamps have pretty universally received good marks. Why spread uncertainty and doubt here, based on what seems to be an entirely reasonable rating on the OP's lamps?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 05:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: MT on December 02, 2017, 04:26:16 pmWould you have the same complaint if they were incandescent lamps? No, of course you wouldn't because those have to get hot to work, which means that luminaires are designed to cope with the heat (and most people know not to touch a hot lamp), which in turn means that you can design a LED lamp to fit the same kind of thermal envelope and thus reduce the cost of the lamp by spending less on cooling. Sounds more like engineering than any kind of fault.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 05:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: MT on December 02, 2017, 04:26:16 pmLED lamps, especially compact ones do get hot. Almost only power rating and size (heat dissipation) matters. Efficiency does not, because the best types have a little bit over 20% efficiency.QuoteApplicable to 99% of large companies. Ebay, amazon, google... you name it. If you are so against it, don't buy anything. As there is 99% chance you'll support such company.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 06:19:43 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 02, 2017, 11:35:00 amI will get there, first I wanted to know what you guys are thinking about that label....Quote from: blueskull on December 02, 2017, 10:04:52 amNow it get's interesting... so if I have this:how many 12V 450mA 3,8W(TF!) lamps can I connect safely at the 12V output?now let´s see what happen...

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 08:18:31 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on December 02, 2017, 04:39:17 pmAre you sure? I was under the strong memory even old feraris meters had to have correction for reactive/appearant power (by law) for the last 4 or 5 decades already.But I admit I could not find any references just now.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 05:48:29 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on December 02, 2017, 08:18:31 pmAFAIK if your PF<0,7 you have to pay a fee.Quote from: zucca on December 02, 2017, 06:19:43 pmNobody knows? Here the results:With 8<=Lamps no promblemWith 9>Lamps overcharge protection kicks in.3,8W my ass

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 06:04:06 pm
content: Quote from: zucca on December 03, 2017, 05:48:29 pmI guess multimeter use is prohibited at your place.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 06:22:39 pm
content: Quote from: zucca on December 02, 2017, 06:19:43 pmit is close to the 12V 450mA and 4.17A (absolute) max values.. This is something where you would also need to have a standard which contains these led-bulbs to say anything above.Ie. the markings in the lamp do not say if they are AC or DC. ...and I have seen similar P =/= U*I markings on other similar bulbs.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 09:31:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 02, 2017, 05:19:09 pmIm not talking about the compact ones, but the standard ones at the base , other known brand for the same wattage she has dont burn her fingers. Chinese people always cheat, its in their genes, just as Austrians are ultra conservative!QuoteSo you excusing IKEAS tax avoiding behavior by naming other multinational companies who does the same!Btw, just trying to be extreme conservative like you often are, like when you say its foolish and nobody wants MCUs in SO14 and DIP8!despite Atmel MCHP NXP make them in such packages! Its fun try to be conservative against IKEA its healthy for your wallet! Down with IKEA!

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 10:17:10 pm
content: Apple is a fraud, Americans are the biggest liars on the planet everything for them is mo money!When the meat scandal in China was about climax, the Chinese flooded to IKEA to eat Swedish meatballs since they knew the Sweeds didnt cheat on the food as well, what they didnt know was the IKEA managment had mixed up the meat balls meat with sawdust from bookshelf Billy!Counterfeit IKEA store! just luve this, Kamprad eat your own sawdust!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2021607/First-fake-Apple-stores-China-fake-Ikea-shop-Kunming.html

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 11:04:11 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 03, 2017, 06:04:06 pmExactly, because this was happening at my friend's house 400km far away. I was just supporing him by phone.maybe now he followed my suggestion and got a dmm.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 11:30:07 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 03, 2017, 10:38:30 pmEngineer without moral is no good in a long run as they became so damn expensive eventually to any group they work with. ..ask VW.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 11:49:44 pm
content: It says they sell custom made furniture. The fake "Apple store" apparently sells real Apple products, not fakes.Ikea had a sordid history of using slave labor in East German factories back in the 20h century.Quote from: blueskull on December 03, 2017, 10:42:11 pm

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 11:51:40 pm
content: OK. I don't follow your reasoning. I'm a finn though and our moral is said to be pretty rigid. The phd part were as I thought, it were a bit tasteless from my part, sry for that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 01:12:32 am
content: Quote from: zucca on December 03, 2017, 11:04:11 pmCould be just crappy PSU which does not handle inrush current and goes into protection. BTW current rating might specify current draw within voltage tolerance. Say if there is 20% less voltage, bulb likely will draw 20% more current to keep the same power.

author: lundmar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 01:30:01 am
content: I've never experienced bad LED bulbs in the IKEA stores in Denmark. In fact, I consider them to have the cheapest high quality LED bulbs available in this neck of the woods.However, IKEAs meatballs are no good. The danish meatballs are much better!

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 11:14:15 am
content: getting back to the first post,2 lamps with the same lumens and totally different wattage,clearly from different factories - be interesting to see teardowns - one is much more efficient.(or the label is bs)btw, the only thing worth buying in ikea is the rechargeable battery's and the ground coffee.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 05:51:09 pm
content: Quote from: stj on December 04, 2017, 11:14:15 am

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 08:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: stj on December 04, 2017, 11:14:15 amNot so much that you would notice, less than 10% difference. However both have pretty crappy efficiency on the level of decent CFL bulb.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 08:40:00 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on December 02, 2017, 12:14:30 pmIf you need 4 lamps for a furniture, bathroom, hall, always buy minimum 6 items, chances are too high that some of the lamps have a very different color or brightness than the other ones.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 08:46:50 am
content: The led lamps I have work at +-9V 300mA, 3WYou can feed 12V but they don't shine brighter, I didn't measure the current or lifetime at 12V.So I could interprete the numbers being:-3.5W dissipated in the Led itself-constant 330mA current rating-up to 12V maximum input, or: 12V input, the internal regulator takes what it needs.the "12V" can also be interpreted as: NOT 230V

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:04:45 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 03, 2017, 09:50:19 pmYou collectively ruined the reputation of a country of 1 billion people with the constant frauds and cheating for 2 cent profit. And made in china became equivalent of "shit product made by the lowest buidder". That is anything BUT smart.Compare it with a country like the Swiss. They've been making high quality items consistently for centuries, and nobody ever questions their integrity. 97% of their GDP is export.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:40:43 am
content: Quote from: lundmar on December 04, 2017, 01:30:01 amBah! You haven't lived until you've tried Finnish meatballs.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 02:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 02, 2017, 10:04:52 amYes, I'd say the same thing. It probably has a bridge rectifier plus smoothing capacitor on the input, which will give under unity power factor.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 04:44:40 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 05, 2017, 10:40:43 amI am willing to arbiter this. Send me a half-meal size sample each and I will provide a ruling.**in case of doubt, it may take multiple samples

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:54:15 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on December 05, 2017, 08:46:50 amWhy we need to do that, it is like a book but you need special glasses to read it. No sense. Those labels should be banned for eternity.

author: lundmar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 05, 2017, 10:40:43 amFor gods sake man! The juicy onions go on the inside of the meatballs!What are you doing.. trying to kill people??This is how proper meatballs should look:

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 12:15:41 am
content: The core principle is making the surplus profits for the owners. If they needed to pay more they paid more but as soon as they dont wages here will fall as low or even lower than China. Plus there is India, so wages will fall still lower then. The winners are the ones who run the ecommerce web sites, not the ones who sell all their work for $0.0001 in profit. During that time their rent cost them $1Quote from: blueskull on December 05, 2017, 06:08:56 pm