Best oscilloscopes of the era ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 12:55:44 am
content: In general, what scopes were considered the best of their time ? Maybe that's like asking what's the best car, but I'm just wondering.I'm just looking for scope discussion, for fun.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:21:51 am
content: From a value for money perspective, the Rigol 1054z for the last 5-6 years would have to be up there.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:26:17 am
content: Quote from: Helix70 on April 03, 2020, 01:21:51 amyes

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:31:49 am
content: It may be best budget oscilloscope , not best oscilloscope.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:58:30 am
content: Quote from: Bud on April 03, 2020, 01:31:49 amThere is no best scope. Try to use an exotic scope for simple work, and its a nightmare dealing with the active probes. There are only best scopes for specific uses.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 02:20:25 am
content: You really have to define what you mean by best. Some notable models where:Tek TDS210/220 - First low cost 1 GS/s (~$1000)HP 54645A - First low cost deep memory (~$4000)HP 54645D - First low cost mixed signal deep memory (~$5000)Agilent 54622A/D - Deep memory + intensity grading (closer to analog behavior)Rigol DS1000z series - First low cost 4 channel 1 GS/s deep memory (~$400)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 02:49:27 am
content: Rigol DS1052E - first sub-500USD 1GSPS deep memory DSOTek 2645 - Pinnacle of Analog Storage CROTek 7104 with 7A29 plugin - fastest analog oscilloscope ever (?)Tek 555/556 - the largest oscilloscopes ever made (?)such list could go anywhere, really.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 02:59:37 am
content: Hi,I did a lot of work with the Tek 2230 and 2232Portable scope that could switch between analog and DSO (like Philips Combiscopes.Jay_Diddy_B

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 03:46:49 am
content: What was the best of the best in whatever decade, if you had the cash ? When did scopes go over $1M ?I'm not looking for real answers, I just like hearing about it.i want to read the wiki on scope history, I watched a cool 1950s or 60s on making them.That reminds me I want to get a working tube scope, just to restore it and put it on the shelfQuote from: rsjsouza on April 03, 2020, 02:49:27 amTek 2645 - Pinnacle of Analog Storage CROTek 7104AnalogSO, wow, I'm not even going to look at the ebay prices, it's too high

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 03:56:39 am
content: 54645D 2+16 AND DEEP MEMORY. Even today , 30 years after introduction this thing is a workhorse and perfectly usable.54832D 4+16but my favorite is :MSO7104 4+16 and deep memory. 1Ghz 4Gs/s and 8Mpoints/channel includes all kind of protocol decoders + large screen.and now theInfinivision 4xxx series.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 04:19:15 am
content: How durable do the scopes seem today ? I understand that some of the tech changes so fast, that you might not want to make a scope to last 50 years.Side by side, from people that know, what's the quality of today's scope compared to pre-20 years ago ?If the non-leaded solder doesn't fail on modern scopes, and you replace the cap's as needed, how should they hold up compared to the old days ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 04:28:58 am
content: Quote from: MathWizard on April 03, 2020, 04:19:15 amIMO the engineers that aren't overseen by the bean counters have the best chance of making equipment that will last and coupled with adequate derating, components will last for decades.And another recent game changer was the 2ch 200 MHz SDS1202X-E, a good snappy performer with a wealth of features at an affordable price.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 08:17:36 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 03, 2020, 04:28:58 amI wouldn't call it a "game changer". Rigol were making 2-channel 'scopes in that price range long before that one.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 09:39:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 03, 2020, 08:17:36 amNot with 200 MHz, 1 Mpts FFT, decode and 500uV/div sensitivity straight outta the box without needing to be hacked !But of course if you were one eyed you'd be excused for missing it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 09:56:52 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 03, 2020, 03:56:39 amThis should definitely be on the list. AFAIK this is the grandfather of the MSO.QuoteAre you sure? The UI is horrible, the signal noise is horrible and the memory tiny. I used to own one myself.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 11:25:08 am
content: Now, the best scope I have ever used is my work scope, a Keysight MSOX3014T. I will only part with it when my MSOX3034T arrives (the new guy gets the 3014T)

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:40:46 pm
content: If you go a bit further back you have to include the Tektronix 465, 468 4 channel analog scopes. Made starting in the 70's and there are many still in use today. Certainly a classic if not of iconic status.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:57:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 03, 2020, 08:17:36 amDepends which game you are trying to change. I've seen the 25MHz Owons completely change some training courses. At $150 its financially practical to put one in front of every student, and shunt them around the world from venue to venue, without worrying too much about them going missing or getting damaged.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:59:56 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on April 03, 2020, 01:57:06 pmWhich model is $150? (model number)

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 02:09:06 pm
content: QuoteBoth of those were 2 channel scopes and the 468 was a combination of the 465 with a primitive DSO.The 465 was a nice scope and Tek sold a ton of them.The 454 was probably the best of the discrete scopes. It was quite a trick to make a 150 MHz portable scope.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 03:17:33 pm
content: I bought a VDS3102 for 112$ on Arrow

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 03:31:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 03, 2020, 01:59:56 pmLooks like they may have discontinued the 25MHz models, likehttps://www.amazon.co.uk/PDS5022T-Portable-Oscilloscope-Multimeter-Channels/dp/B009O1JLSI.They used to be about $150. Maybe you need to stretch to a bit more than $200 now, and get a 100MHz Hantek scope.

author: KrudyZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 03:47:03 pm
content: How about the Tektronix 11301 / 302 models.They were 750 MHz frequency counters / timers that show you exactly what it is that they're counting.With three 11k plug-in slots and 400 MHz / 500MHz bw they were the top of the line 11k analog scopes (bright eye on the 302).Boat anchors, but for ~$300 on ebay are a good deal for anyone interested in a frequency counter

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 05:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 03, 2020, 09:56:52 am54645D , that's actually affordable on ebaySome day I want to get a great 1980's scope. Just for fun.

author: alpher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 06:00:30 pm
content: In the analog "CRO' era Textronix was a king, bar none. You car argue what was the best scope back then but 3 memorable models came to mind:First an all tube 585 A "tour the force" of tube technology as someone wrote,The extremely popular 465 and it's siblings, and finally 2465 family of scopes (including here 2467).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 06:07:41 pm
content: Another one worth to mention is this Handykit 202E (and probably sold under many other brands and model numbers) 20MHz analog scope from the 80's:AFAIK this one sold in large numbers to hobbyists.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 06:44:49 pm
content: I haven't heard of this brand before, but perhaps it depends on the region of the world you live.In Brasil, Hitachi and Philips were quite prevalent with the V-212 and the PM3226 taking the lead. There were some national companies as well (LabO and perhaps Minipa) - for the hobbyist/university

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 07:10:45 pm
content: Tektronix was pretty much the undisputed king of analog scopes, I like some of their DSOs as well but they were never dramatically better than the competition as their analog offerings were back in the day.These days it's harder than ever to define "best", you need to narrow down what you're looking for. Do you mean best general purpose scope? Highest bandwidth? Easiest to use? Best value? There is such a wide range and it's hard to say what's best. Even in the analog era there were some amazing mainframes like the Tek 7000 series but if you needed something portable those would not be the best, despite the exemplary performance and versatility.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 03:16:26 am
content: In photography, there's a saying: "What's the best camera in the world? The one you've got with you!"Perhaps something similar applies in the oscilloscope world?

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 03:25:17 am
content: There was a joke back in the days of analog cathode-ray scopes that there were three names in oscilloscopes: Tektronix, Tektronix, and Tektronix. Tektronix owned the market in those days. They utterly upended the oscilloscope business of Dumont (which was dominant beforehand). They literally could not make enough 511s to keep up with the demand from labs after trade show demos.I'd think it'd be pretty hard to specify one particular oscilloscope that is truly the best of an era, as there are tons of different use cases and tons of different scopes (or plugins for scopes) to satisfy those.However, if I had to venture one for the "old days", I'd say take your pick of the Tektronix 400 series portables. The 453, for instance, was born because IBM wanted a scope that their field engineers could bring with them on business trips as an airline carry on. The 465, etc are excellent machines as well. Combining a high quality scope with the ability to carry it easily is pretty damn awesome. Compared to the size of the contemporary 500 series stalwarts (some of which, such as the 555 and 556 dual beam instruments basically had to be kept on a scope-mobile cart).

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:10:17 am
content: Any scope CRT or DSO from any era, that works and keeps working reliably is the best scope!When they play up, or what's on the screen isn't the real deal due to wonky controls or half baked firmware/software,you will appreciate this comment moreThat said I could only afford unloved MIJ Trio and Kikusui crt dual trace oscilloscopes as Tektonix were way beyond my budget, new or used,but when I did get on to the Tek and Phillips/Fluke scopes I realized that while they were good scopes, I didn't miss out on too much with the Japan made scopes,which are still kicking btw and loads easier to access service and repair if the need ever arisesComparing actual real DSO performance is a bit hit and miss compared to comparing CRTs which was/is pretty straightforward.Any DSO I'd consider to buy would be from members and Youtubers usage reports, tests and conclusions etc,Actually that's why I didn't roll with the Rigol 1054z 2/4 channel with shared controlsI wanted 4 obvious channels and controls side by side, with a non shared separate Trigger,CHEAP and not too fussed with other features, bandwidth hacks and whatever, just a reasonable performing straight up four channel scope.FWIW +YMMV: Shared controls don't work well with me, and the Rigol 1054z would have needed a parachute accessory pack had I bought it

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:36:41 am
content: Imo, for the current era, I mean nowadays, for hobbyist only.The "value" and the "beast". ... duck & run ...The "value" for money part should be 1054Z, not the one pictured.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:59:48 am
content: I'd consider Kikusui to be an A-list brand, maybe they weren't quite on par with Tek's glory days but like most Japanese equipment of the 70s-90s they were well made and reliable.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 11:02:36 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 06, 2020, 05:59:48 amKikusui is an A-list brand at A-list prices. I don't know why anyone would question that one. They used to be quite a broad manufacturer, but seem to have greatly narrowed their focus these days. If you aren't involved in power work you probably wouldn't notice them.

author: duak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 04:37:30 pm
content: I used various tube Heathkit and Eico scopes in high school. AC coupled, single trace and recurrent, uncalibrated sweep. The man with one eye is King in the country of the blind. The Electronics lab had a Telequipment D54 solid state scope. Manna from heaven! The school library also had the Tektronix Circuit Concepts series books. More manna! I never did use any of Tek's earlier tube scopes. I did use the Tek mainframe scopes like the 7904, 7104 and one of the storage units. Somewhere I've got a Polaroid film scope camera, the cheap one.I think the Tek 2465B was the best portable scope ever made with the 465/475 in 2nd place. I've used each but don't own any of them.I have a 2245 and one of the early 2215s; the first scope I ever bought. You make the measurements with the equipment you have, not the ones you want.I used and really liked the TDS3014 (I think it was) I haven't used anything newer than that.I used hp analog scopes a few times and never found their triggering to be a good as Tek's. I used one of early hp digital scopes with a 6 bit A/D for a while but it kept losing its calibration data, probably something wrong with its NVRAM.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:08:25 pm
content: At ITT in the late 90's we had BK Precision 2120 20 MHz scopes. I thought of getting one for nostalgia, but the numpties want too much coin for a decent condition example. I did manage to cash in on the sell off, getting a GW-Instek GPC 3020, GOS-6112 and GDM-8251A cheap. All fine for my needs.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:46:16 pm
content: Tektronix 535/545 (1954/1955) - Earliest dual delayed sweep oscilloscope with "modern" controls. The 545 was cloned twice; I have one of the clones.Tektronix 2230/2232 (1986/1990) - Earliest DSO with peak detection. The 2232 has a "modern" user interface compared to the 2230.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:59:57 pm
content: Quote from: gby on April 03, 2020, 01:40:46 pmDon't know about the best, but the Tek 465 is the first pro-quality scope I used, and it will always have a place in my heart. Loved that delayed sweep! And of course the Heathkit IO-102, which I built when I was about 15 years old.

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 06:20:10 pm
content: I have a Hickok Tektronix clone. Has no tubes except the CRT. Need to dump it or de- part it.Will be digging it out for parting out. I thought it was a 545 clone, but I remember something about finding there are tunnel diodes in it. I do remember the distributed vertical amp tube strip.I do have a 535 and 575 curve tracer