Circuit Maker - It's Dead Jim! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: chad
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:13:03 am
content: So Just read on the circuit maker forums that there will be NO private designs. All of that cool pay for features stuff, It's dead and gone. It's all "cloud", "sharing", community"," maker" now.This was my response. :Quote

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:21:46 am
content: I don't get the agro? It's free.I am the O.P. on the thread you are replying to. Sure I had high hopes for the product too, I really need something scaleable but it seems for now at least that it wasn't to be. As you've pointed out nobody else is filling that need right now either (Eagle, Diptrace, KiCad etc).I'm going to investigate CircuitMaker properly and either take the leap or no. I don't see the need to break some Altium staffer's balls about it though.Cheers,Ruairi

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:27:55 am
content: Quote from: ruairi on May 22, 2015, 01:21:46 amCircuit maker promised an arrangement where Chad would give Circuit maker some money, and Circuit maker would give back a useful tool. Now Circuit maker has announced that it won't give Chad a useful tool, so Chad has told Circuit Maker that they won't be getting some money after all, and told them exactly why they're missing out. Seems reasonable to me.

author: ehughes
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:33:58 am
content: I believe that CM was always advertised as a community tool. They have now lifted any of the area, layer, etc restrictions from it.If You were expecting to run your business from it then you may need to reevaluate your business plan. If your designs are worth that much you can afford something that actually costs money.Just use it and post your designs. No one cares and no one will steal them for their next million dollar product. Your designs aren't that good.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:54:21 am
content: Butwhyuse it? That's what I have yet to see - other than some marketing guys having a circle jerk over it while fantasizing about The Cloud, what does it offer to pull you away from its competitors? It just seems like Altium's Me Too project. Why put up with the restrictions?

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:06:42 am
content: From the forum today:Originally we were going to set design limits similar to the free version of Eagle and give users the ability to pay for additional functionality like additional layers, higher component and net count, bigger board area, etc... After much discussion we felt that was the wrong thing to do and a bit deceptive. Free should be free, so we removed all of the limitations.The product focus also shifted as Altium has software (CircuitStudio and Altium Designer) that serves the commercial community and allows private storage of designs.CircuitMaker is a full featured PCB design product that is designed for the open hardware community regardless if the designs are commercial or not. We want to differentiate this solution from other free products on the market and instill collaboration, peer to peer help, and design reuse. With that said we understand there are circumstances where designers want to keep things private until they have produced something they feel is release ready to the community. This is the aspect of private projects we are discussing support for.From what I've seem already Altium / CM are acting on feedback. If you want to use a free tool, you have to share your work.What's wrong with that?There are no limitations that you get with Eagle, the user experience is so far in front of KiCAD. Yes it's cloud based and can make it a touch slow but think about how long it take you to find a part external to your current CAD tool, then realise this is now integrated into the tool it's a good thing IMHO.It's not perfect, it's not Altium (nor should it be) but I like it. And if the team keep responsing to feedback int eh way they have thye will be onto a good thing.If you had a local cache of the design you are working on, and (for example) you had to commit it to the cloud to get to making fabrication outputs, then I'd be delighted.

author: pthor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:21:48 am
content: I have to disagree with Chad, it doesnt seem like it is dead at all. It actually seems like Altium are doing a okay job of balancing free/community and the payed business segment, and it appeirs to be *some* momentum around it. If they are not skrewing up with basic features I think they have a chance. I guess they figure out that basic PCB features are not that basic at allIt mostly dead when we loose internet connectionIt seems like both of us want something like CircuitStudio features for less cash, and yeah I would gladly pay some money for a tool that just did what I wanted. I would definetly pays *some* money for extended features in circuit maker to enable offline support and private projects.I'm actually not comfortabel with any PCB tool right now, and struggling to choose a tool to invest time in.I have some earlier experience with eagle, overall ok, but no hierachy and not so intuitive, no push n shove. ULP scrip and command line is pluss.Kicad seems promising, sexy open gl/push n shove, but I question the momentum behind the feature development as of now seems unfinished. Main concern is a newer stable release to fall back to for version compability.Diptrace was superintuitive and easy to use, I really liked it. Component creation looked really nice, but it seems limited in ways of do scripting/pattern based part placement.CircuitMaker also lack features for scriping/pattern based placement of parts, but has the better 3D support(?) and they will support the basic push n shove features. Hiearchy ok. Comunity stuff actually seems really nice, but I wonder who owns the "community" created library when someone decide to stop hosting the libraries.It seems like I need to invest time getting my head around the library management, component creation in any tools any way and all have its quirks.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:25:37 am
content: Without private designs and the ability to store my own copy (sorry, but I don't trust them to be around when I want access to my work, be it tomorrow, in five years, or anywhere in between), it just isn't worth the time.I will pay for these options. I will not pay $3000.They are missing out on being given money. This is incredibly foolish of them.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:28:59 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 22, 2015, 02:54:21 amFor me the draw was learning the Altium way of working with plans to eventually graduate to using the full Altium package. I'm not interested in learning many different packages, I just want one pathway with room for growth (much like Pro Tools in my business).

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:35:11 am
content: Why all the kerfuffle ?CircuitMaker : no limits in terms of pincount / size/ layers etc -> cloud storage only. ( AFAIK : does not mean your design is public ! )CircuitStudio : 'Altium lite' : pcb / schematic only , no sim , no fpga , no ip coresAltium Designer : the whole shebang.The only problem i see right now is the file format compatibility. i can understand CM not being able to read CS or AD , but AD should be able ot read CM so there is an upward migration path. i can start with the free version, then buy CS and import my existing designs. same for CS to AD.You can complain that CM is 3000$ an that is fine, but you get a far more capable product than what the competition offers at that price point.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:37:43 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 22, 2015, 03:35:11 amWho's complaining? It's a simple statement of fact, it far exceeds my available funds for a hobby.. So does Eagle! I simply happen to have a license (legally) via other means.They are missing out entirely on a chance to extract money from many people. It's quite hard to understand such a decision.

author: pthor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:47:12 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 22, 2015, 03:35:11 amIf I'm not totally wrong, it seems like they are going for a default public scheme, ie. on cloud == public. And it is an ongoing discussion both internally and in the "community" about the possibility for stating private projects for work-in-progress.Public for me means that you maybe have to download CircuitMaker and register to acces the public available files.

author: chad
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:49:24 am
content: to ehughes:Well it's plain to see that you are an Altium fan boy and share the same arrogance. And how do you know I don't have the next million dollar idea? I just might.Irregardless, I do make some things under nda. If you want to share everything you create more power to you, knock yourself out. Like I said I have paid for Eagle, I have paid for diptrace. I bought diptrace because I wanted to be able to get a .step out of it, and because eagle is, well, eagle.I am angry because I was looking forward to having a decent package for a decent price. I was willing to give them money and if I needed more power I had options to expand into. In the last year I have built a total of 6 pcb's. Circuit studio is 3k+500 so $3500/6= $583 to design each board. Not worth it to me, I charge the most and make the most on other parts of the design. Dip did what I needed it to do for much cheaper. I don't like dip's glacial update schedule, there are bugs and just plain dumb ui decisions. That is why I was hoping for some more competition in the space it makes everyone better.There was talk in another one of the posts about circuit maker being a dead man walking and this decision seems to back that up. They couldn't care less about about the community. They only care about money and selling subscriptions to high (over) priced software. There is an entire range between forced "community" free and $3500 and I was willing to pay them to be in that range, for my use case that makes the most economic sense for me.Like I said in my earlier post they could have owned it all. Now they have a free tool that they have no revenue on other than whatever they get with the marriage with octo part or whatever the hell it is called now. That means it will wither on the vine and be a dead tool soon enough. It has no reason for living. The jump to 3k is to high for most people like me and I suspect scores of others just like me. They have killed any practical 'upgrade' path and arrogantly assume that the 3k+subscription is "that" much better than dip,eagle,ki. They are getting better all of the time. Eagle is already the de facto "maker" standard and they could have taken their lunch money and had a emerging user base with a roadmap to the higher end products.Other than your ad hominem insult, you didn't dispute what I wrote. In the end i'll be just fine with dip or who ever wants my money. If altium wants to fuck up a good thing that's their decision, It would seem to be just the latest example in a long line of inept tone deaf decisions. The rest of the world will continue to pass them by and eventually they will fade into irrelevancy. It won't be the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last.chad"my designs aren't that good"

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:52:50 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 22, 2015, 03:35:11 amNope. Everything (right now) is public. But the CM guys make mention on the forum that they are looking into this.I agree that CM offers a good balance for a free tool. Don't want to share? Go play with KiCAD.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 04:31:51 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on May 22, 2015, 03:31:26 am+1The windows-only alone makes it unfit for the makers market.Altium has too much baggage and this will cause CM to stay an obscure product. I feel bad for the CM team. Their company fails them.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 05:20:32 am
content: Well, the open project / free love thing just killed it for me too. Without revenue, CM is doomed. There is no point even starting with it.QuoteBecause it will get developed to a point then abandoned after a few quarterly reports piss off the investors. Maybe that's already the plan: finish it to a point then walk. Altium must have done the math and realized that developing for the maker market is a total loser.The whole maker movement thing is cool, but at some point the people in it better wake the hell up and realize that software developers need pay checks just like the rest of us. Feedback consisting of "I refuse to pay a reasonable price for a developer's skill and hard work" are just silly. No product survives in a corporate environment without a revenue stream.We live in a time where we are passing laws to pay burger flippers $15/hr, and simultaneously demanding that highly-skilled workers make zero.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 06:59:16 am
content: Quote from: zapta on May 22, 2015, 04:31:51 amSorry, as someone who's worked there, I can't help but

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:03:01 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on May 22, 2015, 05:20:32 amIt's not if they had done it right.The model they originally showed me with with the paid low cost options (one of which was private projects) was very promising.Did they not go through with this? Is CM just a free/public thing or bust? (I haven't been following)Iand gave up when they did the Circuit Studio thing. That will be a flop too.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:04:11 am
content: Quote from: chad on May 22, 2015, 01:13:03 amIn that case, yep, it's dead Jim.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:18:03 am
content: Quote from: pthor on May 22, 2015, 03:21:48 amAnd that's the kicker.Take someone like me for example in the public eye with an audience of 240,000 subscribers, and there are plenty in a similar situation, think Adafruit, Sparkfun, and all the other biggies with large audiences which arepreciselythe people Altium need to get behind and using CM in order to make it successful.If people can log in and see our half finished designs etc then that becomes a huge issue because people may take those (potentially unfinished / not working) designs and run with them at any point. Then when they have a problem with the half arsed design, guess who they come to with support questions!It's just stupid not to offer a private option, it's a huge deal breaker for many and I think will kill community uptake of the product.And the Circuit Studio thing is just retarded, no one is going to go for that, it's a product that sits in thedead zoneof pricing. They should have stuck with their original plan of Circuit Maker with the paid options to beef it up.Altium blew it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:34:06 am
content: I'm testing something...Can anyone using CM see my test project I just setup?http://workspace.circuitmaker.com/User/8F4A1E66-C340-4283-A9B0-D517D563A5BDWhat does it say on my schematic?

author: chad
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:43:53 am
content: I can see you started a project but I can't open it. Did you save the pcb?I think it is borked just like the rest of circuit maker.chad

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:43:59 am
content: No documents, but I guess it won't show them until you do either the commit or releaseEdit: I did start a project too but a save doesn't expose the docs to the community as far as I can tell.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:45:01 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 22, 2015, 07:43:59 amOk, in that case it's not as bad as I thought, thanks.I thought people could see your work as soon as you saved the file.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:49:53 am
content: Did you guys register somehow or you've been just lucky and already received your account via email ?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:51:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 07:45:01 amIf you want to check for yourself here is the link to what I started:http://workspace.circuitmaker.com/Projects/108EE30E-F675-45FC-AF23-948DF386E56BOne schematic is saved but didn't do a commit nor a release.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:59:31 am
content: I posted this on the CM forum:Ok, I just ran a quick test and please correct me if I'm wrong:1) When you create a project it becomes instantly visible to all in the community that you did so.2) But schematic and PCB (and presumably other) files in that project remain private until such time as you Commit or Release the project?Question:Is 2 above is true and designs remain effectively private until you "release" them, can more than one person see and/or collaborate on the design at this "private" stage?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:00:29 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 22, 2015, 07:51:48 amI just opened your design and cannot see any documents.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:01:36 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on May 22, 2015, 07:49:53 amI just registered today and downloaded. It just worked.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:08:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 08:00:29 amPer the doc it seems you have to release it, the commit is to sync the files.http://documentation.circuitmaker.com/display/CMAK/Project+Management+in+CircuitMaker

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:17:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 08:01:36 amHa , ghostery plugin in chrome removed all registration fileds on the webpage. ....

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:18:41 am
content: Also CM is focused towards the academic environment as well. Not sure how I feel about that, because I rather learn the actual tool the professionals use instead of one that is similar but not quite the same.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:19:40 am
content: I think the docs may be out of date - until the open Beta there was public / private, but not now.That said, can you see any files in this project?http://workspace.circuitmaker.com/Projects/70BFA213-B3A4-4B47-92E5-EC200D9EC23AI've committed my work but not published it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:29:54 am
content: I just (tried to) posted this in the CM forum, but it crashed and refuses to let me log back inI agree.A free tool can be made to work with all this cloud and sharing stuff, BUT I share the fears of others in that a free tool with no revenue stream will get killed in a few years time by management. I've worked at Altium, I know this is possible.I agree that offering all the features for free is a great move, no one will argue with that, but ultimately Altium are foolish for not having some form of paid options in the thing. When I saw the private early beta I thought the add-ons and prices was a great, almost industry killer concept.So if they want to give away all the cookies, ok, but have a paid private option and a paid local option so the tool does not have to rely on the "cloud". I'd pay to use CM and have my projects private and local.That should be a good enough to compromise for the long term viability of the tool, and uptake by the industry.Remember, community uptake is everything, without it the tool ultimately dies.As a guy with 240,000 subscribers who can promote the use of CM too, I'm still having a hard time finding a reason to commit to CM, and I've been using Altium/Protel for 30 years, I'm a big fan. Don't make me go elsewhere, because I fear others of influence will follow suit.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:31:24 am
content: Quote from: ludzinc on May 22, 2015, 08:19:40 amIt seems like you have to release it in order to be able to share it.It shows as modified and locked by someone on the project status, and no files in the project

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:34:07 am
content: Quote from: ludzinc on May 22, 2015, 08:19:40 amI got a a login error trying to load itRestarted and now get "internal error" in CM

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:51:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 08:34:07 amThat's just because they hate you, it's still working over here

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:03:11 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on May 22, 2015, 08:51:33 amThey do hate me, I'm still banned from their Altium forum

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:15:10 am
content: Am I the only one that "gets" it? A hobbyist, who has no commercial inclination, would be perfectly fine with throwing his design "out there". And he'll be happy to get a potent tool for free. If at some point he "grows up" and wants to make money with his acquired skills he'll stick with what he knows and that would be AD.They don't have to make money with CM. As long as folks turn to AD when they outgrow CM.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:26:09 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on May 22, 2015, 09:15:10 amI see it in a similar way. My biggest concern at the moment is sustainability. I want be able to open my designs not only now, but also in couple years. Will data be still somewhere there ?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 10:00:19 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on May 22, 2015, 09:15:10 amYou still haven't answered the question that I mentioned I really don't seeanyoneanswering. Everyone defends it by pointing out that its restrictions don't hurt them - sure, okay, it's tolerable for some people. But I'm not interested in why people don't actively avoid it, I'm interested in why people do actively choose to use it! I don't see it offering anything that nobody else offers. Why waste time and effort switching over to a new tool, only to be unable to use it if you everdodecide to work on a private project?Whydopeople use CM?

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 10:33:52 am
content: QuoteI guess because it offers unlimited number of schematic sheets, unlimited number of PCB layers, unlimited PCB size, virtually unlimited number of nets (it starts to slow down at 5000 IIRC) and it doesn't cost anything as far as real money goes. The only real alternatives, as far as I know, would be KiCAD or gEDA or are there ANYTHING else out there with the same capabilities at the same ("zero") cost?I really really don't like the cloud only, always online, always "logged in" to CM aproach. They are allowing "the community" access to a tool provided the data generated with the tool is stored on their servers.Is there ANYTHING preventing them from A) Pulling the plug or B) Start demanding ransom for your data in a couple of years?With that said, I might take it for a spin....

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:12:48 am
content: What he saidEven if other tools offer the exact same thing, at the very least it's a "me too!" product under the flag of "whatever customer we can pull into our eco-system is good".

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:24:53 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on May 22, 2015, 09:15:10 amAnd what happens when CM gets canned in few years because:It's not making any money and/or not enough people took it up because of a few show-stoppers?Some people are thinking longer term, they want this to be a tool they can put their long term trust in.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:45:09 am
content: I may have drunk of the Kool-Aid on this one, but I don't think Altium have stuffed it up .... yet.Right now without any limits, Circuit Maker can do everything that Circuit Studio can do, except for local files. But at $3k Circuit Studio is (imho) overpriced.Right now you cannot export your CM files to another platform but they (the CM team) have mentioned in the forums that they are working on making it possible to import CM files into CS / Altium 'in the near future'. If this option is there then that reduces the risk of losing everything in the cloud.As I have legitimate access to Altium I could do this as I develop my stuff (the advantage being able to legitimately share my files with others for free) *and* keep local files in case CM goes away. Others could also do the same in (ahem) 'creative ways'.And hey, it's still in Beta, and changes are a-foot. I'm keen to see how this goes. I'm also curious as to how they think they are going to make money from this too.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:46:00 am
content: Quote from: H.O on May 22, 2015, 10:33:52 amYes, Designspark:http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/page/designspark-pcb-home-pagehttp://data.designspark.info/uploads/knowledge-items/designspark-pcb-version-5-brochure/DesignSpark_PCB_V5_Brochure(ELE_0076-01).pdf

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:47:54 am
content: Quote from: ludzinc on May 22, 2015, 11:45:09 amIt's more than overpriced, it puts it in the pricing dead zone. It's a dumb dumb move, it will never sell.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:51:55 am
content: As a student, the ability to save and work offline is a big issue. You know that internet, CM'cloud, the whole CM getting canned or something in between is going to fail the day before a big deadline.Having to redo a year is worth about 24000€ in lost revenue and 5000€ in others direct costs. So I am scared not to have multiple copies.Not forgetting that our Uni's internet is touchy sometimes... Just too much stress to consider.I have a small electronic budget, 500€ / year and cannot spend it on something that is not "safe" or "mine".So after much thought, I'll be comiting to kiCad and spending my cash on getting a course, like Chris Gamble offers, instead of spending it on software.A semi local version of CM would have gotten 500 out of me. 3000 is nuts, there is no gateway for me.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 12:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: gildasd on May 22, 2015, 11:51:55 amSo when you use Circuit Maker you're working on a local copy, and when you save, it is synchronized with something online somewhere. Altium will have multiple copies saved for you, check their SLA for guarantees on availability. Circuit Maker can work offline, and that is a supported mode for the software.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 12:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 22, 2015, 12:55:54 pmHow is that done?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: H.O on May 22, 2015, 10:33:52 amAs someone who works for The Man, I can tell you that when a company has pricing tiers of $9000 and $3000, that the word "free" means "we see no value in this fiasco and are pulling the plug as soon as it's politically convenient."And whomever in the "maker" community informed Altium that $60 USD/year was just too much to pay, nice job on screwing over everyone including the design team at Altium. That was an utterly reasonable price, too good to be true, actually.

author: ehughes
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:31:17 pm
content: Quote from: chad on May 22, 2015, 03:49:24 amno.... I just don't go to forums to throw a temper tantrum throwing pejoratives at what is still unreleased software because it doesn't do every thing I want. Your 1st post made it clear you were there to help with the beta process.Chad, we all have an inflated sense of our designs. You might certainly well have a million dollar idea. Then again, you might be one of the 99.99999% who don't. I don't think though if you did you would let the cost of a design tool stop you from achieving what you want. That is just basic business.I do get your argument. You want to pay for something and what you want isn't priced at the level you are willing to pay. I don't think that fact should cause any rational person to throw a fit on a forum.I understand that you may have a NDA with a company and can't release a design. In that case your really need to think about your pricing structure to get the tools you need!QuoteThat may be true. Then again there revenue is much greater than both of us combined! I not sure Altium is going away tomorrow because they didn't give you what you want.QuoteYou might want to think about this one a little more. Just because you aren't paying doesn't mean they have revenue stream from the product.QuoteI have used all three. IMO, Eagle is MS paint with a Gerber generator :-) KiCAD is MS paint with a gerber generator that takes all day to compile . Diptrace is reasonable. No arguments there.QuoteThe problem isn't your point of view, rather your delivery. If you honestly want someone to listen you might want to consider your approach. CM is still in BETA and has changed quite a bit since I started playing with it in December. If you honestly want someone to consider your argument (which at it's root isn't necessarily a bad one), you need to rethink how you present yourself. Altium has moved quite far from there initial position on the product as the result of constructive criticism during the closed beta test. While you won't get everything you want, there are much better ways of delivering suggestions that profanity laced tirades.QuoteWe all have over inflated concepts of our capability. You, me, everyone. Get over it. Don't be so hung up on the premise that you have to share a design if you use a tool that you paid nothing for.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 12:59:25 pmHow? this would change everything...

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:04:45 pm
content: It's not dead, it's resting.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:14:06 pm
content: Rob Evans just replied in the CM forum:QuoteIf that's the case, then what's the catch?If I can create/save/edit and export gerbers etc without ever committing to the vault, then what is to stop everyone using the free fully featured tool for all their jobs without ever committing anything?If this is actually the case, them I'm impressed, and that changes the game.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:24:52 pm
content: The direction Altium are currently taking with Circuit Maker was hardly unpredictable.A subscription version of Circuit Maker would potentially rob profits from Circuit Studio (or whatever they are currently calling it). The original CM announcements/promises were premature and were not prescient of the CS deal with E14. It hardly makes sense to release two low-end subscription packages that are largely the same.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:54:21 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 12:59:25 pmIt's done natively, as part of the normal execution, is my understanding. If you can open a project you can work on it offline, and when you save, it saves somewhere and uploads later when connectivity is restored.if you're looking for exact file paths and manual saving to local disk, well you're not going to find that. You're going to find automation and limitation and nothing pisses off an engineer more than someone else's automation and limitations. Of course nothing pleases an engineer more thancreatingautomation and limitation in their own projects.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 04:49:05 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2015, 02:14:06 pmthat's what i wrote earlier. they don;t force you to release. i;ve done a couple of quick thingies in CM. including a few custom symbols and footprints not tied to ciiva .. it get saved to my local storage. as long as i don't release , nothing is visible to the outside world.so you can work 'invisible'. once you want to release you release. if not , then don't.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 04:58:00 pm
content: On the settings under schematics or somewhere in there, you can override where the cache is located, normally is under Appdata local Altium CM followed by a UUID.Dave I think you were not banned from the forum, at least until you wrote on that cloud thread, because how else could you have posted that?Probably identifying yourself as a previous Altium employee didn't help matters.Edit: but I see you are able to keep on posting.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 10:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 22, 2015, 04:58:00 pmThe Altium Designer forum, not the Circuit maker forum.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 09:42:00 am
content: A more general CM/CS question if I may.From the outside one of the big differences between the free package and CircuitStudio is how the parts library is handled, with the latter having access to Altium's curated vault. For those familiar with that from Altium, how useful/dependable is that?Any comments on how the parts library is handled in CircuitMaker?I'm investigating Diptrace too.Thanks,Ruairi

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 05:54:38 pm
content: Quote from: ruairi on May 23, 2015, 09:42:00 amThere is a lack of generic parts, I had to make myself an smd 0805 capacitor but it's not the prettiest since I extruded the part, and placed a texture on top.I don't know what I did but when I drag the symbol it disappears so it's not useful at all I'll give it another try but the weird thing is that I tried copying the symbol from another part and tried to use the symbol in the part builder, both act the same way.Also I guess I will have to fire up sketchup and get an step exporter for it to make a better 3d representation of that simple part.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 12:46:14 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 23, 2015, 05:54:38 pmJust download a step model from 3D Content central and place that in your footprint.Those guys rock.Lots of free 3D stuff there for lots of cad packages.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 09:09:23 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 22, 2015, 04:58:00 pmThis and the other explanations make it sound like an unfinished tool with file issues; I can't take it as a mission critical soft.Not worth the hassle on what i need to make. My uni uses Eagle, but for my project, the size is an issue: I want to put the sensors on a "pcb stick", so KiCad it is.However, you have also convinced me to CM a twirl on side stuff, so as not to be Altium illiterate.Thanks all of you, you probably saved me a lot of agony....Wavey lines...On a side note, I don't get it how MBA's fuck up market segmentation so much.Stanley (as an example) has basic hammers that can do all that their best hammers do, but the best hammers offer a way better experience. How hard can it be?The price delta on hammer is also very broad: 6$ for the most basic to 55$. Lets say that's 9."copy paste" to CM:The basic CM should be free an advert, to test with cloudwankythingies, like one could use a stone to drive a nail in and think "heavy hard objects are good".So you graduate to a 60$ version of CM that's local, so that even if CM goes out of business, it does not destroy your graduate course final.This ramps up to a 540$ version that's nearly pro - sufficient for your first paid projects but not to run a business with.As soon as you have a tax number, the 3000$ for the CS should not be a real barrier because of your CM background.What don't I get here? This is a bit too simple? Can one get MBA derived blindness to the obvious?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 09:21:55 am
content: That wasn't intended as an explanation, just stating that there is a place where it saves the files.As for the rest, well I also wished everything I needed was free but everything I work on brought profits to my company so I can get paidAnyways, use it or don't, I did try kicad and found it very confusing and with weird terminology, maybe that has changed and I would revisit it later but for now I'm giving CM a fair try like I did with Kicad

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:36:06 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on May 22, 2015, 02:04:45 pmLet's hope the rigor mortis does not set in.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:07:50 pm
content: As said previously, there HAS to be a catch with the "commit to vault" process... what benefit does the user get from sending it to the public domain vs. keeping it private?Can you generate gerbers on uncommitted projects? Or perhaps you are only allowed one uncommitted/local project at a time on your local PC? Or maybe projects are auto-committed after a period of time?It's being portrayed that committing a file to the public vault is a totally optional action but I don't believe there isn't more to it than that.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 08:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 24, 2015, 09:21:55 amSaving outside CM still seems a dodgy bodge, even if it can be done.So fat I've tested Kicand and Eagle. For my "Autocad 14' brain, Kicad seems rather simple and logical. Eagle made me cry.I still need to give Diptrace a twirl (but their pricing is perfect, 75$ is perfect for a usable, on machine, product - but what's the difference between the free and the Starter version?)I don't want it to be free, I just want things to be planned for worst case scenario.Planning for stuff outside the normal was 1st class, 1st semester, 1st year in my industrial design course.This has become my frame of mind. I pressure test stuff:With a sub 60$ purchase:Can I save file in multiple places:Kicad: Yes Eagle: Yes Diptrace; Yes CM;No - cloud don't count.Can I create my own features;Kicad: Yes Eagle: Yes Diptrace; Yes CM;Yes, kinda, but needs workIf the company fails spectacularly, can I still finish my project?Kicad: Yes Eagle: Yes Diptrace; Yes CM; No Mr Bond.If my internet company shuts down for the day and I need to hand in my project the next day?Kicad: Yes Eagle: Yes Diptrace; Yes CM;Yes, kinda, but how do I create custom footprints from the saved datasheets?But on the other hand, using CM give you a step up in the Altium ecosystem.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on May 24, 2015, 07:07:50 pmSomebody posted in this thread a screenshot suggesting only 1 free private project.With all this confusion, Altium should come with a FAQ.

author: Frank II.
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 27, 2015, 06:47:12 am
content: That's in the current (27.05.2015) FAQ:QuoteUnfortunately it needs some translation from complete useless marketing blabla to an answer, but it seems to me as if they essentially mean "No" and "No".

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2015, 11:38:59 am
content: Quote from: Frank II. on May 27, 2015, 06:47:12 amYou are right, they don't really answer the two questions. That's weird and doesn't instill confidence in their locked service.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2015, 01:52:57 pm
content: yet that doesn't reflect what they are answering in the forums, so I don't think things are set in stone just yet.If you don't commit your work then it's not publicAs for the network I think you need to be connected to start the software, but not sure if you need to stay connected to keep on working, on the forums they are still pondering what direction that is going to take. In one hand they don't want this to compete with their other offerings on the other hand even if a network connection is required the files are on your system so not sure if they would be local if you lost network connection.Also it does have expansion capabilities so it can go any direction they want to.But yeah for a beta is not really well defined yet what they are going to do, they did change from limits and only one private project to unlimited and only shared when committed, so once they filter those uncommitted projects and maybe allow reuse of the project names per user then that would be a big win IMHO

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 12:59:11 pm
content: Looks like they're quickly back-pedalling and trying to kill these lower tiered products, pay you $3000 USD for circuit studio and:Quote

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 01:08:31 pm
content: Which is plain dumb. Do you hear that Altium, just DUMB!Instead of crippling the software to become unusable/unstable/slow as a wet wick, why not just limit the number of pads to 5000 (or whatever).

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 01:24:33 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on June 07, 2015, 12:59:11 pmI'm quite ok with this. 3000$ for the basic as you start out.Get a big complicated project, get an upgrade. No worries. The just need to be up front about it. A chart with a couple of bell curves and everybody knows the tune.For the semi pro projects I've got planned after Uni, 3000 pads is the upper limit of what I need (and paying someone who knows wtf they are doing).

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 01:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: DerekG on June 07, 2015, 01:08:31 pmI disagree. imagine you got the 3000$ version and are only just turning a profit.Due to requirement creep, the pads have slowly gone up to the upper 4000's despise the best possible practices.Just before sending the files out to manufaturing, the client duplicates a feature to add redundancy.The count goes up to 5005 pads!What is better:a) losing a few seconds or even minutesb) forking out for an upgrade and putting yourself in the red?Altium has caught some flak doing stupid things (saving outside the cloud MBA level daft), but this seems quite reasonable.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 01:35:29 pm
content: There is no upgrade, if you want more you buy the next package up (pcbworks?). Wouldn't be complaining about these sorts of limits creeping into an "affordable" hobbyist tier but this is an unproven package with dubious ongoing value released amongst 2 others from the same company without a clear comparison, and now shifting the capabilities week by week while still hiding them away from easy comparison.I'll sit on 99se until they can settle down and offer a complete perpetual licensed tool under $5000, which might be pcbworks.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 01:57:00 am
content: Quote from: zapta on May 24, 2015, 10:19:25 pmtodays beta update:The biggest change in this update is the addition of Sandbox Projects, which allow you keep your designs private until you’re ready to share them with the open hardware community. You’ll have two slots available for Sandbox Projects, and once you share your project with the community, you’ll have that slot back to use as you need.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 04:46:25 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on June 17, 2015, 01:57:00 amYes, so if you don't want others to copy your designs (ie you are just using CircuitMaker as a "cheap" way to design boards), just change the identifiers on your chips to another chip that won't work in your circuit to throw others in the Make Community off the track.A couple of resistor & capacitor changes should polish off the design as "unusable".Then just block (or delete) messages from others in the community that wish to whinge about your designs not working & you are all done.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 08:35:04 am
content: you you know, since it's free and all, just make another account for another 2 private projects.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 08:42:41 am
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on June 22, 2015, 08:35:04 amNow you really do have your thinking cap on. If they check your IP address, just use your VPN to choose a different one.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 10:09:06 am
content: Better yet, fire up Wireshark and reverse engineer the cloud protocol. Set up your own CircuitMaker server on localhost. Now you can have locally cached files to work with offline.

author: ehughes
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 01:39:07 pm
content: I think creating a local server would be possible, but a lot of work.They are essentially using the Altium "Vault". Vault is SVN + a database for a bunch of metadata).If you could get access to Altium Vault, it probably would be much easier.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 03:01:36 pm
content: Had a quick look at the packets and indeed they are using Altium Vault. Some of the DNS addresses:workspace.circuitmaker.comvault-cm.altium.comdiscovery.altium.comlibrary.altium.comids.altium.comportal2.altium.compush.altium.comSo changing the DNS entries in your /etc/hosts to 127.0.0.1 and then...ah sod it, just use the cracked Designer insteadBut seriously. If someone where to reverse engineer the Vault protocol and create an open source version then surely that would be legal to use (as far as criminal law). I imagine Altium could come after someone in the civil courts for damages if you go and use CM and profit from it commercially without publishing your designs on their web portal though. Of course IANAL.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 05:13:31 pm
content: having a local vault server would be useless as it would contain no data ... the libraries would be empty .

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 06:33:26 pm
content: Quote from: DerekG on June 07, 2015, 01:08:31 pmLimiting the pad count to an exact number is almost twice as DUMB.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 11:53:51 am
content: Wanted to try out Circuit Maker. Turns out itdoesn't run in winedespiteother claims. (I know wrong CircuitMaker)I wonder what they use, that doesn't play nice with wine. Judging from Altium Designer it wouln't run fluently any ways.Guess it's another virtual box for me, or (god forbid) KiCad.

author: Icchan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 10:14:25 pm
content: I wonder if there's any change in this situation since the thread was started?The thing with the "un-upgradeability" of the Circuit Maker is that for example, small startups don't have that 7k€+ to put on a full product when they need 5% of the features.I've run into a situation few times already int he last two years, where the budget isn't large enough for that 7k€ for the full product, but the project would need push & shove, rigid flex capability and hierarchical layout and schematics.I can't find these features from Circuit Maker, and that 3k€ from the circuit studio is too much for the feature setand it doesn't even include these capabilities even if I wanted to pay!Let's say that Altium hadONEproduct, called "Altium Designer". Pricing starts from 0€ with the capability that Circuit Maker has, but everything else can be bought in as a plugin feature to increase the capability of the software all the way to the hilt.And they should be able to be also plugged off when wanted. Let's say company doesn't have a project hat requires High Speed Design, just unsubscribe and you'll pay less/month until you need it again.This way even small projects could benefit from the capability that Altium has developed and everyone wins!How things currently are, I'm getting by using different tools. It takes more time and effort, but when talking about 7k€ software purchase in comparison to a months work (~1500€) it's nothing if things still get done.How much would I be ready to pay for a months subscription to those features (Rigid Flex, Push & Shove, Hierarchial Design)?I'd say 80-120€/month easily for all three.I just don't understand why Altum is pissing away all that money they could have instead of getting nothing. and i'm 100% sure i'm not the only one who would be ready for that kind of model.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 11:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: Icchan on March 25, 2016, 10:14:25 pmAltium had this down perfect with their original idea for Circuit Maker, the one they showed me before release.You could buy extra features for a time period as you needed them.I posted a screen shot of it somewhere at one point.But they did a complete back-flip on that iea and decided to give everything away without restrictions. Which sounds great in theory, but they crippled it in ways that put it into a commercial no-mans-land. Then to cap it off the introduces Circuit Studio at a ridiculous price point, also in no-mans-land.So they completely screwed up everything, again.QuoteThat's what Altium specialise in, pissing away opportunity. Either going too far, or not far enough. They have no real idea of their target audience, even though they hired people (me!) part of who's job was to tell them about what the real world wants. But they didn't want to listen unless it already matched their own ideas.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 11:45:44 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 25, 2016, 11:26:20 pmSo glad you ditched them Dave, and went on to better things. Nothing worse than a brown tongued "yes man"Has EEVBlog decided on a "recommended" OSHW PCB design package yet? I know Chris Gammel pushes KiCAD a lot... I have to say it has come on leaps and bounds since your last review!

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 02:01:02 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on March 25, 2016, 11:45:44 pmDave was such a pain in the ass they had to shut down the whole office and move it to China!

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 10:49:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 25, 2016, 11:26:20 pmRescuing defeat from the jaws of victory...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 11:47:26 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on March 26, 2016, 02:01:02 amIt's still there completely empty 4+ years later:http://www.commercialview.com.au/3-minna-close-belrose-nsw/commercial-for-lease-details-7436307Last time I drove past, I think I actually saw a tumbleweed...Holy opportunity Batman!http://www.pineproperty.com.au/property/3-minna-close-belrose/I'll take a five+five year lease please at the going rate.What the heck, I'll pay double the going rate!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 11:58:38 am
content: Quote from: gildasd on March 26, 2016, 10:49:24 amYou would be stunned at the number of times that phrase was used by employees

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 12:27:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 26, 2016, 11:58:38 amVery common that, especially in context of business and sports....Quote from: EEVblog on March 26, 2016, 11:47:26 amCan you get a 99 year lease with escalation at that price? Even at 20% pa escalation it is a steal. You could move the entire office, bunker and more in there, and get your corner office back, using the rest as a store and shrine to what could have been.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 12:33:13 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 26, 2016, 12:27:46 pmContract signed, I move in Tuesday. Everyone's invited!, party at Dave's new lab!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 12:38:06 pm
content: Not April yet............But, if it is not an early one, can we petition the local council to change the street name from Minnow close, to something more appropriate like EEVblog Avenue.

author: Icchan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 05:58:48 pm
content: After all this, I really hope that KiCad will get more developers and that it will be the circuit design package with all the bells and whistles.But there's still so much work to do.If I was good enough in C++/C, I would help. :/

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 03:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 26, 2016, 12:33:13 pmDoes the GPS work inside? We are going to need one to find the geeks in a corner huddling over a printed board.Quote from: SeanB on March 26, 2016, 12:38:06 pmDoes "Dave's Decadent Digs" fit on the facade?

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 07:47:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 26, 2016, 12:33:13 pmPlease adopt me. I'll take care of cleaning and maintenance. I'm a good active learner, but awful studentI also may eventually help you by making Spanish subtitles and translations to EEvBlog! I'm sure you'll destroy the competition Ave gain viewers, the others are usually very boringAs for the street name, "Crazy Aussie Bloke St." seems very catchy!Quote from: Icchan on March 26, 2016, 05:58:48 pmTime to time. They need to completely switch to the new canvas (GAL) and maybe clean more the code. I would have loved every participated in Google Summer of Code, I suppose it's still to early.Do you know other programming language? I want to learn too, people recommend me Python all time. Despite I prefer C++ and LuaJit as user in a lightweight but powerful way, I understand this has an extremely steep curve for starter.Jean Paul Chacras started KiCad to learn C++. So it's possible!Get motivation and contribute in other ways like kicad-library.If you are good at digital logic, it will be less difficult and the hard part will be probably to learn the abstractions and get food syntax. I'm speculating as I only know extremely basic C (conditionals), but maybe a coder is reading this abs want to reply!If you get motivated, you could get support at :- Programming forums and chats.- Making easy patches and hacks to Open Source projects, many of them are quite supportive too.The KiCad project still has some legacy code from those days that need to be improved, but they don't have resources like LibreOffice (and this project still has awful code from StarOffice days).There's lots of hopes with KiCad, CERN have a long term plan to make it "the GCC of EDA".It's not like gEDA: Older than Vim that despite it started at Atari, it has a chaotic community damned with forking hell. Fortunately, Igor2 and others are improving things, modularizing the code and merging forks etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 03:24:35 am
content: Quote from: gildasd on March 27, 2016, 03:33:00 pmFunny story about that...I was working on a GPS Nanoboard module and nothing worked inside the building. So I dangled a cable out the window of the bosses office and then inside to a repeater. Worked a treat until an anal retentive saw it and said it ruined the look of the buildingI had the Look'n'Feel nazi knocking on cubicle 10 minutes laterThe same look'n'feel nazi who wouldn't allow anything to be hung on cubicle walls

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 03:55:46 am
content: I hate people like that Dave. They make it their personal mission to make life just alittle harder for other people, just to make themselves feel better.On another note....why did a famous movie line just pop into my head when I read your response? "Have you seen my stapler?"

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 08:03:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2016, 03:24:35 amThere is a special "breed" of people whose sole purpose is to stop others getting anything done... And somehow they are also the last to get fired...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 08:12:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2016, 03:24:35 amDid the same person leave said cubicle, walking a bit funny and with a GPS cable trailing behind 2 minutes after that?

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 09:41:01 am
content: The road to efficiency is paved with anal invasions. My new motto.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 04:16:02 pm
content: While browsing the CM forum, I stumbled upon this post by an Altium employee:http://circuitmaker.com/forum/posts/215592/616492QuoteWhere are all these critics hiding, I wonder? Either we're a bunch of weirdoes, with views that are totally unrepresentative to what an average EE think or the guitar guy and his employers live in some kind of a reality-distorting matrix kind of thing.As a bonus rant on my side, is it only me who's freaking out when all the non-professionals are being collectively called "hackers"?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 06:00:45 pm
content: That's kind of a weird outcome.If the critics didn't want to pay per private why would it matter if some would like to actually pay for that?I guess what it means is that if Altium added the feature, those critics would like it but for no pay, so now no one can have it.As for the non-professionals I think the new term is "makers". But some of them take existing hardware/software (binary blobs) and modify them to their needs, so in that aspect that is considered a "hacker" but only if the end result goes beyond the intended usage.but I agree, they call anything a hack nowadays because some of the so call hacks use the hardware as intended but in new ways.So the line is not too clear to some.As for the term "maker" is because of the "maker movement", anyways, I don't care much on terminologies since they change like the seasons.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 06:09:26 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on April 27, 2016, 06:00:45 pmI'm under similar impression. They went to the nearest campus with a survey and went like:- You, random student! Would you be willing to pay for being able to keep your PCB project private?- Errr... no... I guess...?- See, John? Told ya! Into the trash it goes!Way to go