Unusual design of a free-flow hydropower station - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 11:45:08 am
content: I wanted to discuss one design of a free-flow hydroelectric power station.To start, here's a video I came across online.If anyone is interested, I will try to explain the principle of operation as I understand it

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on December 31, 2023, 12:47:40 pmAre you "nobody" ?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:52:01 pm
content: This is not our video. Some kind of development from Romania.As the developers say (automatic translation into English):The design is a system (two rows) of rectangular blades (flat plate), the axes of which divide them into two unequal parts, the larger of which is always (due to the action of the flow) located behind the axis further downstream.The axes of the blades, with their upper and lower parts, are, in turn, fixed to the upper and lower chains closed in rings (or to any other flexible element).The chains transmit force through sprockets (impellers) to two vertical shafts, from which the mechanical energy of the moving medium (water, air, etc.) is transmitted through a flexible coupling and intermediate shaft to the shafts of electric generators.The designers state that:1. Behind the turbine, the water has a speed 2-3 times greater than the flow entering the turbine.2. Behind the turbine, the water level drops (exactly how much is not specified).3. A few meters down from the turbine, a certain stable water vortex appears.4. The power that such a hydraulic station produces is 2-3 times higher than a conventional free-flow turbine of the same size.I would like to start by discussing how real this is and is it possible?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 01:46:12 pm
content: low speed and no more torque than he can easily stop by hand...

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 02:03:10 pm
content: Well, actually, for now I’m only talking about the fact that -Behind the turbine, the water has a speed 2-3 times greater than the flow entering the turbine.How can this provide power and also accelerate the flow?Here's another video, it's more clear here.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 02:25:07 pm
content: Just a Guess:Those blades look like airplane wings and are using the flow on one side to create "lift".Perhaps they mean the water flow on one side of the Hydrofoil is greater that that on the other side??

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 02:34:49 pm
content: and you dont call that turbine by the waytoo much mechanics in this, reliability over time mehhaving used real turbines would have help, increased strenght and torque for a generator, even recycled converted washing machine motors would have been betterand having the "propeller blade" going opposite ways in the center kill efficiency, check the drag / turbulence they make, thats a big NO, you dont want that in any systemsbut not practical in any ways for efficent energy productionyou have tons of water entering it, it turn slowly, and the guy was able to stop it by hand, means no torque at all, all eficiency is lost even if you say the water speed is higher at the output ...check water turbines efficiencycheck water paddle wheels efficiency

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 02:54:02 pm
content: Agree with Coromonadalix.Does not appear to be very efficient;Maybe some sort of effort to not chop up fish like turbines are apt to do?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:16:41 pm
content: Don't rush to conclusionsIt seems to me that this is only a small-scale prototype, and larger stations are free from these shortcomings.That's what they claimQuote

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:26:17 pm
content: @ Hydro you dont seem neutral in all of this, are you one of the guys ?? even if you say you're notwhat i've written is evidence, and you clearly see it on this demo, small scale experiment, if you say otherwise that's up to youyou are biaised in some way'sbecause you absolutely want to try explaining things that we dont necessarly need or want to get, you seem to force your way in ...But i do understand energy requirements, and everything related to that, no need of your lenghty explanationbut they must be done with intelligence, wich this product is notbbye

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:26:49 pm
content: Looks like a Darrieus wind turbine, but stretched out along a track.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrieus_wind_turbineWhich reminds be of this youtube video where they stretched a RC plane propeller out along a track:

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:32:08 pm
content: lolllhere we go again, saw that in the pastyes the video is some mythbster revival as some comment say, love the square one lollman the mecanics involved in this kill the efficiency

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on December 31, 2023, 03:26:17 pmI want to be a participant in this project and popularize the idea.Do you see something reprehensible in this?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:52:05 pm
content: YESif for yourself you want to believe it, go ahead, feel good participate or invest, BUT dont bring others with youand i maintain the fact with everything you wrote, that you are biaised in some ways when you wrote / quote : We propose a solution involving ...YOU are not neutral and, and i do think you have some objectives in mind using the "WE" sentence of your quotingyou do publicity for the others / unknown in this video / even if they are totally it the wrong or not,YOU DO publicity for them, thats not being neutraland once again dont push your beliefs on othersthats allil stay out of thisoh and i see you go in other threads loll

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 04:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on December 31, 2023, 03:52:05 pmWhy not ? Is this forbidden by someone?QuoteThat was a quote.That's what THEY wrote, that's what I quoted

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 04:46:42 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on December 31, 2023, 12:52:01 pmDespite the kinematic awkwardness of this turbine, the developers claim that it is 2-3 times more energy efficient than its analogues of the same sizePay attention to what they write:1. Behind the turbine, thewater has a speed 2-3 times greater than the flow entering the turbine.2. Behind the turbine,the water level drops(exactly how much is not specified).3. A few meters down from the turbine,a certain stable water vortex appears.4. The power that such a hydraulic stationproduces is 2-3 times higher than a conventional free-flow turbineof the same size.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 05:11:07 am
content: There was a video shared recently, I think on Hackaday, of a "turbine" system of this kind. The concept derived from a wind turbine build using sails mounted on cables which moved round a "railway". Someone 3d printed one with tank-trak style links in place of the cables, it did rotate when a fan's blast was directed at it, but there would be a lotof losses to friction from the moving track links. The key idea was that having the tracks/cables on the outside of the blades impoved the area covered, or something similar, but I expect any advantages would be outweighed by the problems of extra moving parts.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 05:18:49 am
content: Yes, as I said, this particular design is mechanically not very efficient.But for now I wanted to draw attentionto the principle of its operation.And on this principle it is possible to construct a kinematically more advanced design.Follow the topic.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 09:00:03 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 05:18:49 amIt is not possible because.... physics.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 09:06:28 am
content: I'll show you the calculation.You will have the opportunity to disprove it using physics.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 09:26:31 am
content: Go ahead !(this is not the whole article, only half so far)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 11:01:10 am
content: I tried to wade through that article, but I don't have much time for it. It seems like non-scientists and non-engineers trying to do science and engineering. As a result there are lots of superfluous words, extraneous details and complex, unnecessary descriptions that hide a clear understanding of the core principles at play.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 11:05:23 am
content: If you're short on time, then don't read it.It will be betterQuote from: Andy Chee on January 02, 2024, 09:00:03 amAndy CheeI'll give you a couple of days to find the error here.Then I'll post the rest of the article.It's not as simple as this anymore

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 11:06:21 am
content: I think it would be best if this thread were locked.That way, it would avoid wasting the time of all involved here, and Hydro could get on with changing the world and making his fortune. Elsewhere.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 11:10:14 am
content: What don't you like here?No one is going to change the world.Innovative technology is being developed.Can you actually say something?

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 11:16:44 am
content: This looks like it is turning into one of those "I found lots of stuff on YouTube and the web, please help me make it / invest in my company / whatever" type threads. Reminds me of this one...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/the-non-linear-plasma-reactor/msg4210558/#msg4210558

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 11:20:51 am
content: When did you get this feeling?After the article with scientific justification was published?Or earlier ?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 11:05:23 amI read the whole article, people can read it here:https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/a-highly-efficient-method-for-deriving-energy-from-a-free-flow-liquid-on-the-basis-of-the-specific-hydrodynamic-effectThe only reason you held back, is because you are hiding something. What are you hiding?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:08:18 pm
content: I'm not hiding anything, I'll show everything.And the following articles in this series.Have you seen them?I just try to keep things gradual.Do you have any objections or did you find errors on the first three pages?Maybe someone else will find it.If not, then I’ll put the rest of the pages

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:13:26 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 12:08:18 pmThe derivation of equations (5) and (6) are incorrect.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:21:46 pm
content: Where is the mistake ?The article is not new. No one has ever found an error in these equations.What should be correct in your opinion?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 12:21:46 pmIf you can't see it, then there's no way you will understand my explanation.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:38:53 pm
content: I'll try to understand.Well, or I’ll send your explanation to the specialists.Try to explain, please.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 05:03:23 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 12:38:53 pmI believe you are wasting precious energy here. You have come to the wrong place and you have the wrong audience here. You are just spinning your wheels.There are probably better places in the Internet where you can go pitch this nonsense.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 05:58:08 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on December 31, 2023, 11:45:08 amI would love to see the explanations.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 05:03:27 am
content: Quote from: soldar on January 02, 2024, 05:03:23 pmAfter all, no one is dragging you here on a lasso.If you don't want to, don't look.There are a hundred topics here that are not interesting to me and that I don’t go to and don’t waste time on.I recommend that you do the same with this one - you will save both time and energy.Spend it on topics that are useful to you.For cats, for example....

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 05:05:36 am
content: Quote from: eutectique on January 02, 2024, 05:58:08 pmYes, sure.Please.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 05:56:09 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 05:05:36 amYour posted images show Mr. G.V. Treshchalov's explanation.What is YOUR explanation Mr. Hydro? I don't think you understand it, that's why you keep hiding the complete document. That's why I can't be bothered explaining the errors, it's much too difficult for you.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 06:26:11 am
content: Do it. I'll send it to himHe will answer when he is free.It is not difficult to post the entire document and I will do it when the questions regarding this part are clarified.If you want, you can post the entire document now if you have it.I do not mind.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 08:40:31 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 03, 2024, 05:56:09 amThen don’t waste time, use point 4 of the FORUM RULES.QuoteOr send these comments directly to the author of the article. It seems his address is there.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 09:35:54 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 09:06:28 amThis is really not how things work. The onus is onyouto prove it usingyourphysics.None of us have any reason to put time into it, since we didn't start the topic and we don't care about it. It is your topic that you started, that you care about. So you have to make the case for it. Posting some kind of wacky, complicated paper is not making a case.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 10:17:59 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 02, 2024, 09:06:28 amIf you make extraordinary claims, then you have to provide extraordinary proof.That's the way it has always been, since it allows competent people to produce competent results. The alternative is competent people wasting all their time refuting rubbish.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 10:33:26 am
content: Given that you live in Pakistan, you may not have heard of the health technology company Theranos who invented the "Edison" fingerprick blood testing machine.Basically you are doing the same thing as Theranos i.e. you are making claims without proof.And no, a single theoretical paper (with errors) is not proof.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 10:44:53 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 03, 2024, 10:17:59 amWhat extraordinary claims have I made?I showed a working free flow turbineWhy did you decide that evidence needs to be presented this way?Usually, for this purpose, they refer to physics textbooks or scientific articles.What am I doing.What extraordinary do you see in this article?Are there any objections to the article?If you consider yourself a competent specialist, then competently refute it.You can write a scientific article. This is exactly how science works.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 10:50:19 am
content: Quote from: IanB on January 03, 2024, 09:35:54 amDon Lancaster used to get all sorts of crazy overunity ideas and I remember him saying something to the effect of "Dont, send them to me, don't ask me to prove you wrong, I am not going to spend time on it, maybe even if I tried I could not spot the error, I don't care, it's in there and the fact that I cannot spot it does not make your idea valid, just do not waste my time with overunity ideas.""If your device seems to give over unity efficiency it is because you are not accounting for all energy input and output. For example, I get from my car 1000 miles to the gallon ... of windshield wiper fluid."

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 11:14:35 am
content: Quote from: soldar on January 03, 2024, 10:50:19 amDid I say that???Wake up!Everything there is based on the elementary law of conservation.Here is the continuation of the article. It’s written there in black and white, if anyone hasn’t understood yet.It takes into account both incoming and outgoing energy.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 11:51:32 am
content: Just straight to the point will ya ? ... How much do you need to start ?

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:06:13 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 05:05:36 amThank you.Perhaps, this explanation broughtyouto some conclusions, practical or otherwise.Would you please share them in 3-6 sentences?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:13:45 pm
content: Quote from: eutectique on January 03, 2024, 12:06:13 pmIt can be done in one sentence."A principle has been developed on which free-flow hydraulic turbines of various designs can be designed with increased energy efficiency"

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 03, 2024, 11:51:32 amWhat are you about ?How many sentences do I need to explain the principle of operation?I already said above - one thing

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:25:07 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 12:13:45 pmGood. Anything else to discuss here?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:26:39 pm
content: Yes.Did you want to leave?All the best !See you again!

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 12:26:39 pmI will stay, thank you.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:36:42 pm
content: If no one has anything to say about this article.Then I'll show you another couple of them.There are already more complex specific hydraulic terms.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:46:40 pm
content: I don't understand your goal in this overall discussion. If you believe in this stuff, go ahead and invest in it (your money and/or your time) and get rich! Why do you feel the need to convince a bunch of strangers on an internet forum?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 12:59:30 pm
content: Everything is moving.And here is the goal:FORUM RULES"Open sharing of ideas and content is important. Links to and promotion of other forums and content IS ENCOURAGED! (this isn't a jealously protected forum, unlike some others)"

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 01:08:07 pm
content: If that was meant to be an answer to my question, I am sorry to say it is not. I would appreciate if you could explain what motivated you to join this forum specifically to advocate this technology, and what you expect to get out of this.You are under no obligation to do that, of course, but a plausible explanation might help your standing.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 01:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 11:14:35 amThere is nothing in that article of substance from an engineering point of view. It has no reference to prior art, no comparisons, and no meaningful numbers. It looks nothing like a scientific paper.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 02:11:45 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 03, 2024, 01:08:07 pmAnswer - popularization this idea.Do you think this is bad?QuoteWhat I expected is what I get - answers, reactions, opinions etc.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 02:35:11 pm
content: Звучит гимн Союза Советских Социалистических Республик:

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 02:43:53 pm
content: Quote

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 03:13:37 pm
content: I don't think this proposal conflicts with the conservation of energy. I just think it is not very practical.You can, of course, design a device which extracts energy from water by using the difference in the water's potential energy (i.e. a height difference) rather than its kinetic energy. And you can arrange things such that the water flow speed is higher after the device than in front of it. This device is called a dam.And you can, of course, create a "dynamic dam" by putting some obstruction into flowing water. This will also create a height difference behind vs. before the obstruction, and a speed difference (because you slow down the flow in front of the obstruction). By letting some water flow through a little turbine or whatever other mechanism you fancy, I'm sure you can extract some power.I have no idea whether and how the guys in the initial video are connected with the guy who wrote that paper. Their contraption with the "blades on a belt" seems like a very inefficient way to create an obstruction in flowing water and extract some power from it.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 03:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 12:13:45 pmSo what? Principles mean absolutely nothing until they have beendemonstratedto be correct and independently duplicated.Science 101:observe somethingdevelop a principle/hypothesis that explains the observationbased on the principle/hypothesis,make a predictionthat can be provedand disproveddevelop a test that for that prediction, ensuring it provesor disprovesthe predictiondo the testpublish the principle, the prediction, the test, and the test results in sufficient detail that someone else can duplicate themif necessary, return to (2)So far you have only mentioned step two. Where are steps 3,4,5,6,7 documented?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 03:47:09 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 03, 2024, 03:13:37 pmPractical hydro-power units make use of elevation difference (head, potential energy), since this is much more useful energetically than velocity (kinetic energy).For example, to change the elevation of 1 kg of water by 1 m corresponds to a potential energy change of 9.8 J. To change the kinetic energy of that 1 kg of water by the same 9.8 J you would have to accelerate it to 4.4 m/s or 16 km/h, which is much faster than the typical flow velocity of a river, which would typically be only a fraction of that.Therefore practical small scale hydro-systems (like water wheels) divert the water down a side channel while the river falls, and then let the water descend back to the river over the wheel, using gravity to do the work.Well engineered hydraulic turbines can have a mechanical efficiency around 90%, so there are only marginal gains to be made by improving on this. Claims of a 3x improvement in efficiency would only hold water if the original efficiency was less than 30%, which is terrible by most standards.In any hydro-power system, if the water leaves the apparatus at high velocity it is taking kinetic energy with it and therefore reducing the efficiency.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 03:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 03, 2024, 03:13:37 pmI think so too. Or rather, I'm sure of itQuoteThe fact of the matter is that it is without a damQuoteThe guy who wrote the article, in my opinion, did not show any design at all, only a diagram.Does the guy’s contraptionfrom this videoalso seem ineffective to you?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 05:38:54 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 03:59:26 pmAre you able to read more than one paragraph? I wrote another one. They are not that long.QuoteI don't think I want to jump through every hoop you hold up, and I certainly don't want to download some surprise video. Unsubscribing from this thread now.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 06:53:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 03, 2024, 03:59:26 pm

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 07:49:56 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 03, 2024, 03:13:37 pmAll the time we are faced in the news with inventions that will revolutionize the world... or so we are told. Young reporters, who do not know the difference between a V and a W or between their ass and a hole in the ground, report the new found miracle and the public mostly doesn't care much except for a few who really want to believe. The believe a loner in his home has come up with something which escaped the developers and investigators of companies who spend millions on R&D.A few months back, in Spain, we had to hear the case of a young engineer inventor who had "invented" a reverse turbine for airplanes with the blades pointing inwards from a belt. The reporter did not feel the need to consult with anybody who actually works in this field, some jet engine builder, no, the young kid talking to her was totally convincing.https://www.elespanol.com/omicrono/tecnologia/20230205/invento-espanol-revolucionara-aviones-gracias-ingeniero-cordobes/736176474_0.htmlhttps://s1.eestatic.com/2023/01/31/omicrono/tecnologia/737936338_230530709_1706x960.jpg

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 08:19:31 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on January 03, 2024, 07:49:56 pmwell it would "solve" the real problem of a fitting a bigger fans for more efficiency, under the wings of current plans, but at the cost of adding a bunch of unsolvable problems making it totally pointless... Rube Goldberg would be proud

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2024, 08:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on January 03, 2024, 08:19:31 pmI think some engineers, some people, fall in love with some idea they had and they just want to find the problem they could solve with this "solution" so they keep looking for the problem which would be solved by their solution which is no solution at all.I admit I am somewhat guilty of it. Sometimes I am not really looking for a simple or practical solution but for an ingenious or elegant solution.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2024, 06:08:08 pm
content: " I think some engineers, some people, fall in love with some idea they had and they just want to find the problem they could solve with this "solution" "Even worse is when governments gets caught up in this kind of thinking.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2024, 02:00:01 am
content: Isn't this what we're currently doing with AI?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 05:22:29 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 03, 2024, 03:13:37 pmI take it that no more questions have arisen so far?So far it hasonly been proven that all this does not contradict the law of conservation of energyand that the shown design does seem like a very inefficient.But It seems to me that in this article the author draws attention precisely to the principle of operation, focusing not on the design of this device, but on the fact that various designs of such devices can be developed on this principle.Probably this design was taken as an example in which it was easiest to explain the principle.No questions anymore ?May I continue?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 09:39:40 am
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on January 03, 2024, 02:35:11 pmWhat is it ?Is this in Polish?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 10:14:08 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 08, 2024, 09:39:40 amIt's the same language as Mr. GV Treshchalov.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 10:36:33 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 08, 2024, 10:14:08 amIs he Polish or Serbian?Like Nikola Tesla?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 10:44:07 am
content: In my opinion this is not Polish.Polish doesn't seem to be Latinhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Budushchee-energetiki-Imploziya-vs-Eksploziya/dp/3659359793/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1704710531&refinements=p_27%3AGerman+Treshchalov&s=books&sr=1-1&text=German+Treshchalov.... although the cover is not in Latin.Is this Cyrillic?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 11:14:26 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 08, 2024, 10:36:33 amAsk Mr. GV Treshchalov yourself, his contact details are in your article.A HIGHLY EFFICIENT METHOD FOR DERIVING ENERGY FROM A FREE-FLOWLIQUID ON THE BASIS OF THE SPECIFIC HYDRODYNAMIC EFFECTG.V. TreshchalovEngineering and Research Group (“ERG”)Kara-Kamish-2/1-3-43, Tashkent, 100098, UzbekistanTel./fax: (99871) 2790590; e-mail: t-ger@mail.ru

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 11:35:04 am
content: I don't see the need.Whether he is a Pole or a Serb or anyone else - it doesn’t matter.Did you write to him that you found errors in his formulas?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 11:42:58 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 08, 2024, 11:35:04 amThen why did you ask about language?QuoteI don't need to write to him. I'm not interested in his research.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 11:54:04 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 08, 2024, 11:42:58 amRhetoricallyQuoteFine.You won't wait for the continuation?It's even more interesting there.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 12:08:09 pm
content: I looked for his profile.Is it him or someone else?https://www.linkedin.com/in/germantreshchalov/This is Uzbekistan, former Russia.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 01:48:51 pm
content: I wanted to ask this question to everyone present.Why does everyone understand the essence of the problem so differently?Some are sure that there is no violation of the laws of physics here, and some for some reason think that some kind of “over-unity” arises here?Can each of you describe on the basis of what inferences such conclusions are made and why?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 05:54:31 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 08, 2024, 11:54:04 amIn my system this language is defined as Serbian. The automatic translation seems to be clear.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 04:17:34 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 08, 2024, 09:39:40 amAn article about a DIY free-flow power plant from an old Soviet magazine for secondary school age kids.P.S.HTML-editionof this article andreincarnation from the Nineties (Вариант №3).

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 06:12:22 am
content: Doesn't this look like their design?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 06:43:05 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 15, 2024, 06:12:22 amNo.Your first diagram is a vertical axis design. Your Youtube video is a horizontal axis design.They are completely different.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 06:57:43 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 15, 2024, 06:48:41 amIt matters A LOT!!! The entire theory is based on "layers" of pressure caused by gravity. Such layers are IMPOSSIBLE to extract energy from vertical axis!!!

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 07:10:20 am
content: I think the point is not in the vertical or horizontal axes, but in the principle of transforming the flow of water.Does it look like that?There are no axes at all.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 07:20:42 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 15, 2024, 06:57:43 amAs far as I understand, the energy is obtained not from the axes (vertical or horizontal), but from the flow of water.At the beginning of the topic, a machine with a vertical axis is shown.It seems like you didn’t have any questions about it, except that it’s kinematically awkward.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 07:34:53 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 15, 2024, 07:20:42 amIt shows that you don’t understand Mr GV Treshalov’s theory at all.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 07:55:11 am
content: Have you figured it out well? What's my mistake" ?In Mr GV Treshalov’s theory there are no axes at all.He only shows a “black box” under which anything can be hidden.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 07:58:05 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 15, 2024, 07:51:24 amYour mistake is that you don’t understand Mr GV Treschalov’s equations.I understand his equations, and that’s why I know there’s a mistake.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 08:08:37 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 15, 2024, 07:58:05 amThere are no “axes” in the equations and they are not taken into account in any way.Please tell us how you understood them.Share your knowledge with us.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 08:31:31 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 15, 2024, 08:08:37 amMr GV Treshchalov's equations use gravitational potential difference (like all hydro systems).A vertical axis turbine like your picture, has ZERO gravity difference between the upstream blade and downstream blade. A vertical axis turbine does NOT rely on gravity, it relies on flow differential (which could be created with an obstruction, or hydrofoil blade geometry).If you don't understand that, then you will definitely not understand the mistake he makes.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 08:47:32 am
content: Where did you see some “horizontal” or "vertical" axes, if in the device at the beginning of the topic they are vertical ??Do you have any doubts that it works? Open your eyes!I repeat - there are NO AXES in his equations!Where did you get them there?If you don't understand that, then I don't understand at all - what are you doing here??

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 11:17:55 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 15, 2024, 08:31:31 amI think this is true.Do you know that in all hydro systems that use gravitational potential difference there can be turbines with completely different axes - horizontal, vertical, longitudinal, transverse etc.But none of the energy equations of hydraulic turbines are NEVER AFFECTED by the orientation of the turbine axes!Do you know that ?If you don't understand that, then I can't help you.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 11:55:47 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 15, 2024, 11:17:55 amI don't need help. I am not attempting to promote a hydro design.You however seem to need a lot of help, because you have convinced no-one.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 12:46:59 pm
content: I understand you - you are "no one".And you need help to understand that I AM NOT OFFERING ANY DESIGN.It is offered by those who manufactured these turbines and those who wrote the article.But I can't help you to understand it - sorry.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2024, 07:58:44 am
content: I found another article on the topic...Previous ones are herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5268390/#msg5268390https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5257110/#msg5257110https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5255157/#msg5255157

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 05:38:51 am
content: What does this mean?« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:52:54 am by gnif »Who can edit my messages and why?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 06:11:35 am
content: Mods and Admin can edit your posts, and will be doing it because you are posting something that goes against the forum rules.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 06:18:46 am
content: ThanxIsgnifa moderator?OK, I didn't know.But I don’t see anything that my post was edited - as I put it, that’s how it is.It's strange that you could edit there without editing anything.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 08:17:00 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 17, 2024, 06:11:35 amAVGrespondingI didn't read your message very carefully.Do you think that I am posting something that goes against the forum rules ??Please clarify - what exactly?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 06:23:03 pm
content: How should I know? Go read the forum rules, and apply them to your posts.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2024, 05:14:37 am
content: I have read the rules and follow them exactlyTherefore, my messages are not deleted or edited.The admins didn't tell me that I was violating anything.For some reason you said it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2024, 05:42:11 am
content: gnif administers the forum software and database. There were recently some upgrades that might have required fixing some image references in posts, so it is possible that your post was updated to maintain the correct appearance after the upgrade. Just a guess.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2024, 08:04:29 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 02, 2024, 12:13:26 pmAndy Chee, so what's with the errors in the equations?Have you found them?As you can see, these equations have been derived by other scientists and in other ways.Moreover, the basic equation of hydropower is derived from this equation.Will you oppose the entire hydropower industry?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2024, 08:14:30 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 19, 2024, 08:04:29 amWhich scientists? You've just quoted Mr G.V. Treschcalov's article again.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2024, 09:17:41 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 19, 2024, 08:14:30 amAs far as I can tell, he was referring to some scientist from Michigan who came up withEquation #3and the basic hydropower equation that has been known for 100 years or more.Or am I wrong?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2024, 06:37:16 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 17, 2024, 05:38:51 amJust saw this sorry. I had intended to delete a different post and had too many tabs open, as such I modified the wrong one. The edit comment is just to state that something was changed, where in reality here nothing was, I just undid my mistake. Sorry about that.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2024, 06:55:39 am
content: Quote from: gnif on January 20, 2024, 06:37:16 amNo problem.Looks like we've already sorted it out.Thanks for the apology.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2024, 07:04:47 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 19, 2024, 09:17:41 amBased on the lack of objections,I can conclude that I am right.By the way, I think I found that article by a specialist from Michigan who derived the equation.Strange, but it is also in Serbian.I'll try to translate.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2024, 10:24:44 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 20, 2024, 07:04:47 amThis is how the translation from Serbian turned out.Google doesn't translate better.But it seems clear.Any objections?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2024, 02:48:44 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 02, 2024, 12:13:26 pmWell, the opponent was finaly blown away.Andy Cheestill haven't found the error ?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 11:31:47 am
content: I think he just doesn't see the point in answering you, given you clearly are not able to understand the maths involved. Feel free to continue your pointless spam posting of this technology, but no-one on this forum will give you any money.@mods, surely this nonsense belongs in the dodgy technology section, along with solar roadways etc?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 12:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 21, 2024, 11:31:47 amAre you his lawyer? Is he not able to answer for his words himself ?It is not me who needs to answer, but those specialists who compiled these articles and derived the equations.One of them, as far as can be seen, is an employee of the University of Michigan.Do you think that they also understand things worse than the clowns on this forum?QuoteOpen your eyes - I'm not asking you for any money.And that is not the purpose of the forum at all.QuoteSo you don’t even know what we’re talking about?What are you doing here then?Do you work as a lawyer here?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 02:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 21, 2024, 11:31:47 amBy the way, the good thing is that you understand thatthis is technology, and not mere chatter.This is already a progress in your understanding.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 06:27:40 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on December 31, 2023, 02:03:10 pmFirst, define 'speed' and also 'flow'.Then ask, how can current output from buck SMPS be higher than current input?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 06:36:00 am
content: What is "buck SMPS"?What do you mean by "current"?Who should I ask?

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 06:42:21 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 22, 2024, 06:36:00 amBuck SMPS is an electronics circuit. Plenty of definitions on google and probably in the beginners section of this forum.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 08:19:24 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 20, 2024, 07:04:47 amI did not want to participate in this thread, but boy is someone here full of himself and blind for what is obvious.Quote from: Hydro on January 22, 2024, 06:36:00 amThe fact that you can't even see analogies between different technologies proves the above.There is no need to go deep into the given formulas, the real world test shown in the first video you presented gives enough evidence that it does not bring what is expected. The mechanism is stopped with little effort of the guy in the water next to the device, so how can it then drive a generator to provide several KW of electrical energy?But my conclusion of this whole thread and the other one about the use of waterwheels is that you are an attention seeker, and most of the frequent users of this forum don't want to play with you.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 08:41:37 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on January 22, 2024, 08:19:24 am1.There are definitely analogies between electric current and water flow. But they are never complete.This is exactly the case if you haven't noticed.2.The video shows a turbine with a height of 50 cm. If you had bothered to delve a little deeper into the topic, even for a minute, and did not make hasty conclusions, you would have seen that as the height of the turbine increases, the power increases to the cubic degree.Look herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5281537/#msg5281537Pay attention to the numbers on the tables there. They are even specially allocated for you.3.I don’t need your attention and I’m not going to play with anyone. But you still play...But I’m not dragging anyone here on a lasso.If you don't want to play, pass by. The topic about cats is just for you.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 02:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 21, 2024, 11:31:47 amI don’t know why you suddenly decided to talk about some kind ofmoney, although there was not even a hint of this in my messages.But you intrigue me. I'll think about it.In the meantime, you think about this.Your consciousness has already reached the understanding thatthis is technology.Your consciousness still needs to take a tiny step to understand that this is not just technology,but a highly effective and promising technology.But don’t tense up and relax - your consciousness itself will take this step to understand the essence of things.This is called "Overton window".Again.This gives someone the false impression that I need some attention.I repeat - I don’t need the attention of amateurs and clowns !If you are not able to carefully read at least the essence of the topic, and you have nothing substantive to say, then it is better to pass by.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 03:58:45 pm
content: It is becoming difficult for me to distinguish Hydro from a troll. That's troll as inhttp://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/t/troll.html, not the lazy journalism sense.EDIT: an alternative is "fanatic", as in "A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject", often attributed to WinstonChurchillhttps://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/01/fanatic/

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 04:00:34 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 22, 2024, 06:55:20 amWhen I learned electronics, I used analogies of fluids in pipes to wrap my head around it. Later, I learned fluids and used my electronics knowledge to wrap my head around it.You haven't defined what you mean by 'speed' and 'flow' so it's hard to talk fluids. I hoped that being on EEVBLOG forum meant you are familiar with electronics and that would help you learn fluids.Some basic equations that describe electronics also work for fluids and mechanical systems. Boost SMPS for example are quite similar to ram pumps. Buck SMPS are similar to dams.Seems you have focussed solely on the topic, fluids, and not the broader picture, we are on EEVBLOG forum.Much like how focussing on current makes it seem like a buck SMPS breaks some conservation rule, if you fail to see the broader picture: power. It is power that is bound by a conservation rule, current can increase but power output can not be greater than power input.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 07:55:40 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 22, 2024, 02:05:44 pmWhy else are you actively pushing this on this forum then. In the end we all like attention.But calling us amateurs and clowns make you the one who is ignorant. Sure I'm no expert in the field of hydro power, but do have a reasonable understanding of physics, and it all boils down to that.The whole premise of the systems described is about releasing the potential energy from water be it flowing or still standing. The only way to achieve this is with a difference in height and that can only be very small in all the new so called promising structures described here, resulting in not a lot of gain over a traditional system.But you are so convinced that these new methods are the golden ticket to a better future that your mind has been made up.The argument that the device in the first video is only a small scale experiment to prove a point and that up scaling will definitely make it better, is in my perspective a load of garbage, because up scaling will bring other problems with friction and finding locations to even be able to apply it if it works, that it is like being on a road to nowhere.But I will leave you be in most likely a soon to be empty space.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2024, 05:29:04 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on January 22, 2024, 07:55:40 pmWe all like attention. But not the attention of amateurs and clowns.That's exactly what I said.QuoteIt is not calling things by their proper names that is considered ignorant, but amateurism that wants to appear significant.I don’t call anyone in particular amateurs and clowns. I call amateurs and clowns precisely those amateurs and clowns who make statements without citing facts, documents, or calculations.Then everyone can determine their status based on this.You make such statements. (so determine your status yourself).But this is no longer my problem, but more yours.QuoteIf you do have a reasonable understanding of physics, then you should know perfectly well what the“critical mass”is in a nuclear reaction.So size matters.As the size increases, other technical and engineering difficulties inevitably arise, but this in no way denies the importance of nuclear reactions and the performance of nuclear reactors and power plants.By declaring that upscaling (no matter what) is a load of garbage, without calculations and arguments, you put yourself in the above status.QuoteThe place will not remain empty. It will only be freed from the opinions of amateurs and clowns, and this is even for the better.But it will never be empty.It is viewed by a lot of people who are not amateurs and clowns, but who have nothing to say or object to the topic. They only receive information and understand it.Again.The “Overton window” (understanding the essence of things) does not open immediately.If you are an inquisitive and intelligent person, then just be patient, get information, compare the facts, analyze where you need it or have doubts - do the math yourself.The Overton Window will open and you will understand the essence.It was the same with me

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2024, 06:12:27 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 22, 2024, 08:41:37 amQuote from: Kasper on January 22, 2024, 04:00:34 pmFine.Let's do this.I will now give you a dozen analogies between hydrodynamics and electrical engineering.And then I will give you the terms of hydrodynamics and you yourself will have to find analogies for them.When you'll say that you cannot do this, I will explain to you why.So.Direct current = fluid flow in a pipeAlternating current - there are no analogies in hydrodynamicsActive power - flow powerReactive power - there are no analogies in hydrodynamicscurrent = flow rate in the pipevoltage = static pressure, dam height, pump pressureKirchhoff's circuit laws (in a particular case - Ohm's Law) = Bernoulli's Equationwire thickness = pipe cross-sectionresistance = pipe wall roughnesselectric motor = hydraulic turbineelectric generator = water pumpelectric arc = water hammerupd.......inductor - long pipebattery, capacitor - reservoir, tank, damNow you....gravity flow, free waterTurbulentlaminarcritical flowsubcritical flowlaw of continuity of flow.channel depth/width (note - they are by no means equivalent)flow speed (this is not flow rate)Reynolds numberFroud numberPrandtl numbergravity accelerationhydraulic jump

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2024, 02:27:17 am
content: That's neat, even though I didn't ask and I don't agree with it all, I appreciate your efforts.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2024, 03:15:44 am
content: Quote from: Kasper on January 24, 2024, 02:27:17 amYes, no effort, just offhand. Maybe somewhere is inaccurate.I forgot to insert the inductor and capacitor.I'll correct it.And where you saw an inaccuracy, please correct it too. It will be useful. - if not to us, but to someone else.Thank you.And I will explain why there are no analogies in electricity for the lower terms.The fact is that there are analogies for pressure flow in a pipe.There are no analogies for a gravity (free) flow (except perhaps with magnetism, but this is not certain).And that is precisely what we are considering here.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2024, 04:09:59 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 23, 2024, 05:29:04 amOverton window is a psychological phenomena, not a technique for acquiring and understanding scientific and/or engineering knowledge.Moon landing conspiracists, perpetual motion, free energy, and HHO experimenters, attempt to use the same psychological strategy to promote their so-called scientific analysis to mainstream. In reality, their logic is flawed.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 09:41:11 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 24, 2024, 04:09:59 amBut how did I write it?Maybe your English is bad? Or vision problems?I repeat.This is -“a technique for acquiring and understanding scientific and/or engineering knowledge”:Quote from: Hydro on January 23, 2024, 05:29:04 amBut this is“a psychological phenomena”Quote from: Hydro on January 23, 2024, 05:29:04 amRead it again. Very often it helps.Quote from: Andy Chee on January 24, 2024, 04:09:59 amWhat are you doing here then?Go there, they need clowns there.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 11:24:12 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 25, 2024, 09:41:11 amRelax. We are tired of your rant.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 11:46:53 am
content: So are you reading everything?I am very happy !Interesting ?And I thought you had already left to post photos of cats.But since you’re reading, tell me, what are your objections to the essence ?Do you know what the difference is between us?You read my topic, but I don’t read yours. I don’t even know if you opened any topics here.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 12:29:29 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 23, 2024, 06:12:27 amAC current water analogy

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 12:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 25, 2024, 12:29:29 pmAnd for AC a capacitor is an elastic membrane and an inductance is a length of tubing. Works well.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 01:49:15 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 25, 2024, 11:46:53 amT.M.I.episode of South Park springs to mind. Have you seen it? We have.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2024, 02:04:23 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 25, 2024, 12:29:29 pmWell.Impractical, but yes, why not.It remains to find an analogue of reactive power.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 05:46:21 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on January 24, 2024, 04:09:59 amTo consolidate the material covered, I will again put here the conclusions of a professor at the University of Michigan.So that someone with a sick imagination does not have seditious thoughts that these areMoon landing conspiracists, perpetual motion or free energy.I myself understand not everything in this math, but I can’t object to anything, because I’m trying not to look like an amateur.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 12:44:13 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 21, 2024, 11:31:47 amSo, what did you want to say by talking about money?What can I earn from this?How ? Tell me please.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 03:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 26, 2024, 12:44:13 pmCould youpleasestop stirring the pot? If you feel like it, keep posting about the benefits of dam-less hydropower until the cows come home. But if others don't want to engage in pointless discussions with you anymore, please leave them alone, rather than trying to stoke up controversy.If there is not enough quarreling in your life, why don't you go out for a walk and kick some people in the shin?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 03:44:16 pm
content: QuoteIf you don't understand it, how do you know what it's saying? It could be complete bollocks so far as you know, but you're treating it as if it were gospel.And.. if you you're trying not to look like an amateur then you're trying to appear as an expert or professional. Yet you say you don't understand the stuff which does actually imply you are indeed an amateur (of what you haven't specified).QuoteWhy? I mean, all you're doing is spacing out actual content with repeated stuff that the reader is just going to skip. You've already posted it all, and either the reader bought it then or they didn't, but shoving it in their face again and again isn't going to make any difference.And, again, you post it as if it's a holy scripture, yet you don't understand what it's saying. Isn't that what religion looks like?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 05:05:01 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 26, 2024, 03:07:03 pmWhy shouldn't I do this?Is this forbidden by anyone?This is what the forum was created for. Constantly “stirring” something, initiating questions, getting answers, more questions... etcThe dude blurted out something off-topic. I didn't understand what it was about.I asked him - what did he mean?He is silent. I thought that he left, but he is here, I see him.I thought that he had forgotten about my question, so I reminded him of it.If he doesn't answer, he probably doesn't know the answer. Or he knows, but is silent.You have entered into the dialogue, and I assume that you know. But you don't answer it either.Okay. Even better.I will understand this in such a way that I myself will have to look for the answer.And further on this issue there is no longer any need to “stirring the pot”.QuoteI repeat for the hundredth time - I don’t drag here anyone with a lasso and I don’t pull anyone’s tongue.Whoever wants to speaks out.But after that, be kind enough to answer for the words spoken.QuoteIf there is not enough quarreling in my life, I don't think it's a problem.But it would never even have occurred to me that this “problem” could be solved in this way.Is that the only difference between us?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 08:10:43 am
content: Don't play dumb, dear. To go for a walk to kick people in the shin was not a literal suggestion but an allegory for the behaviour you show here all the time. You know that. And I know that, which is why I will continue my walk on some other path.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 09:14:19 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on January 26, 2024, 03:44:16 pmYou also don't read carefully.I didn’t say that I don’t understand, I said that understand not everything and I wanted to draw the attention of people who understand (if they are watching this).For example, I don’t quite understand what “non-hydrodynamic energy” means in the text.If anyone sees an error in these equations, please tell me about it. But no one talks about mistakes. It looks like they don't exist. So we'll accept it for now.QuoteYes, in this topic I am trying to look not like an amateur, but an expert. And this has already been confirmed by the development of this topic, because, as you can see, I know more than all the visitors to this topic.But even an expert doesn’t know everything.If you watch the film "Oppenheimer", you will see that even he did not know the answers to all the questions and was not embarrassed to tell his colleagues or consult with anyone.QuoteQuoteYou misunderstand the essence of the cognitive process. One of its aspects is the repetition of material. This is how physics and mathematics and literature and other sciences are studied.Have you ever had to re-read incomprehensible passages in articles or textbooks to understand the essence more deeply?Repetition matter. This is how the process of cognition occurs.If you understand everything at once, then you are the best student in the class.But don't bother others. Probably, not everyone learns the material covered so quickly and not everyone understands the lesson so quickly.For example, this professor’s calculation was posted a long time ago, but still someone had the idiotic idea that it was “moon landing conspiracists or free energy”This is why repetition of material is necessary for them.I'm glad that you are not one of them.You can just skip this part of the lesson and go to a cafe with a girl-friend.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 12:07:21 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 03, 2024, 05:38:54 pmQuote from: ebastler on January 27, 2024, 08:10:43 amGood luck ! See you soon !Quote from: Hydro on January 23, 2024, 05:29:04 am

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 06:51:03 am
content: EDIT: Sorry guys. Thread was locked for a short time due to a duplicate post across another thread. Spoken with the poster, and this one has been unlocked again.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 11:57:16 am
content: Thank you !

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 12:47:01 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 22, 2024, 02:05:44 pmIt seems I understand what you meant when talking about money.This one ?"The best place on the web to discuss crowd funded hardware projects!Promotions allowed, just be ready for serious expert feedback."But here they don’t give out money, they only “pump up” the project for potential financial attractiveness.And they claim “serious expert feedback,” which I have not yet observed in my topic.Well.I'll try.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 12:48:56 pm
content: While unnecessary messages were being deleted, this one was also deleted. I restore it from the cache.And what ! I’ll go there, maybe they’ll say something useful. It says there - “be ready for serious expert feedback”

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 04:49:20 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on January 31, 2024, 12:48:56 pmand when the expert feedback isn't that your magic "free-flow turbine" is the best thing since sliced bread and going to save the world, what do you do?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 04:26:32 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on January 31, 2024, 04:49:20 pmWell, first of all, thisis not my“magic free-flow turbine”. It was made, as far as I can understand, in Romania and Serbia.And secondly, the answer to your question has several options.1."the expert feedback isn't"- this means that there are no experts here.2."the expert feedbackisn't thatyournot minemagic "free-flow turbine"is the best thing"- in this case I will contact the developers and write to them that this is bullshit3."the expert feedbackis thatyournot minemagic "free-flow turbine"is the best thing"- then, what doyoudo?The first two options are not for you, but please answer the last one if you don’t mind.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 07:03:55 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 01, 2024, 04:26:32 amWell, will you speakout thereas an expert?Or are you afraid that point 3 will work out?

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 06:03:33 pm
content: Hydro; I have read your post twice and it is not clear exactly what you require. I believe you really, really need right now is to eat some chocolate chip cookies, and I am reproducing a recipe below:https://joyfoodsunshine.com/the-most-amazing-chocolate-chip-cookies/

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 06:56:22 pm
content: "These are everything a chocolate chip cookie should be.Crispy and chewy."Yup, that seals the deal, I need to try those. Thanks for the link.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 10:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on February 04, 2024, 06:03:33 pmHave you tried that recipe yourself and demontrated that it works as advertised?Or is it just something you have seen on a random website and are mentioning it because you think it will (when experts understand it) revolutionise the art of cooking?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 10:59:47 pm
content: I've tasked my cookie expert with validating the process. With a bit of luck it'll take her several tries.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 08:37:39 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on February 04, 2024, 06:03:33 pmWhich post did you read twice?This one ?Quote from: Hydro on February 01, 2024, 04:26:32 amEverything is written very clearly here.I asklangwadtto participate in peer review of a technology if he considers himself an expert and takes responsibility to state anything about possible peer review.Or is he afraid to be an expert?schmitt trigger, re-read this post for the third and fourth time.If even after this it does not become clear to you, then I cannot help you. Only cookies can help you.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 09:04:16 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 08:37:39 amYour peer review request is not genuine. Calling someone afraid is not peer review, that's bullying.Also peer review requires publishing article author names. For some reason, you keep editing your articles and replacing the author names with ***@***.com

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 09:52:35 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 09:04:16 amNo, what is called bullying is not my assumption, that my opponent afraid, but his comparison of “magic free-flow turbine” with sliced bread. And his desire to find out what I will do if the experts decide so.I answered his question in detail - I gave him three possible options. But he doesn’t answer.Yes, I expressed myself somewhat incorrectly about“peer review”. This is usually used for scientific articles.But I just want to find out anexpert assessmentof the technology and the turbine that uses this technology.But who wants to give a peer review of the article,then please, here is an article.I do not have the right to publish their names and addresses here in order to ensure the most unbiased approach and not to make unnecessary advertising for the authors on the forum. This is the only reason not to advertise their names on this site.And moreover, I can still conclude that this topic is very interesting to many, despite their statements that they left, unsubscribed and that they are not interested.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:00:12 am
content: Purpose of a journal article is to clearly communicate the problem and solution. Since neither are presented clearly in that article it fails before needing to consider the illogical conclusions and claims.Equally Hydro, if this is so interesting and groundbreaking why can its important points not be clearly communicated to others?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:31:01 am
content: Quote from: Someone on February 05, 2024, 10:00:12 amMaybe I'm wrong, then correct me, plsIt seems to me that the article quite clearly sets out the problem - to improve the free flow of hydroelectric power stations.Solution - formulas were derived and the operating principle of such a hydraulic turbine was invented.Explanations are given for its scale modeling taking into account the coefficients of hydrodynamic similarity - the Reynolds number and the Froude number.I’m unlikely to be able to better convey the essence of the solution to the problem than was done in the article, which is why I posted all the articles and comments that there are on this matter.If you see some illogical conclusions and claims, then I can try to answer them as I understand it.Please....

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:36:40 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 09:52:35 amYou have the right to publish the DOI of the article, for example:https://doi.org/10.3390/en11020267https://doi.org/10.1016/j.egypro.2017.10.181https://doi.org/10.1115/1.1414137https://doi.org/10.1016/j.rser.2015.06.023https://doi.org/10.1016/j.seta.2019.100605https://doi.org/10.1177/1687814015595339DOI is the standard method of sharing articles, not edited screenshot images you made in photoshop or microsoft paint.Please post the original DOI to your articles.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:52:14 am
content: QuoteAnd perhaps chocolate cake recipes to go with the cookies.Or maybe that's too much chocolate. I've heard that a lemon flan can be improved with chocolate, though.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:57:50 am
content: I say it again1. this are not my articles2. we are not in a scientific journal here, but in a public forum.3. even if it were not published in some journal, no one forbids discussing it here.4. we are not discussing articles here, but technologies.5. anyone who wants to write a peer review should contact the author or the journal.6. if I hid the name of the author of the article, it was only in order not to get involved with the author, but with the turbine, which is presented at the beginning of the topic

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:59:31 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on February 05, 2024, 10:52:14 amWell, I thought the clowns were gone here.But no, they're still alive

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 11:01:16 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 10:57:50 amI want to contact the author. Please tell me the author's name or journal. Or just provide the DOI, which will contain all the required contact information.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 11:08:23 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 10:59:31 am"Man shall not live on fancy ideas alone". Although I think originally it was about bread, but times and technology move on.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 11:21:02 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 11:01:16 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5266509/#msg5266509

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 11:58:33 am
content: In my opinion this is another article of the same autor.It seems to me that there is a different address there.https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/research-into-the-hydrodynamic-effect-of-bosting-power-and-its-full-scale-modellingAnd this one ?https://www.amazon.com/Alternative-Hydropower-hydrodynamic-application-hydro-turbines/dp/3847371096

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:00:49 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 11:01:16 amRegrettably that is becoming the starting point rather than an intermediate conclusion, e.g.https://www.science.org/content/article/fake-scientific-papers-are-alarmingly-commonI wonder if the OP is aware of that phenomenon and/or choosing to exploit it?Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 10:59:31 amYes they are still here, as all but one poster realises.Ludicrous posts engender ludicrous responses.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:01:40 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 10:31:01 amThe original video has the description:"Безплотинная Мини-ГЭС Линева производит 11 кВт при скорости течения реки 1 м/с"or, in plain English,"damless mini-power station produces 11 kW at flow speed of 1 m/s".This claim is exaggerated and illogical. I'd love to see your answer.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:05:46 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 11:58:33 amPlease provide the author or journal or DOI or contact details for the following article:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5299339/#msg5299339

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:15:32 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 12:05:46 pmAs far as I know, this calculation is posted onarXiv. It doesn't have any DOI.I repeat - we are not in a scientific journal.If only these formulas were written on a napkin in a restaurant. Can you refute them?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:21:28 pm
content: Quote from: eutectique on February 05, 2024, 12:01:40 pmIn my opinion this is bullshit.Where is this written?He has other numbers written in his article.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:28:23 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 12:21:28 pmIt is written in the description of the original video on youtube.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:28:47 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 12:15:32 pmI think you want to steal his idea, which is why you are refusing to provide contact details. Or you are a lazy researcher. Or both.These reasons are why no-one wants to discuss anything with you.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 12:28:47 pm1.How can I steal an idea if it was published in a journal many years ago?2.The design may be different, but on the same principle. Just as the designs of cars, airplanes, helicopters, ships, etc. can be different. However, the principle was invented long time ago by Carnot, Otto, Diesel, the Wright brothers and others. No one can steal the very idea from them.3.Contact details of the authors are publicly available. I gave them to you. Although you yourself found them a long time ago (even considering the fact that they are in Serbian). Although you stated that you are not interested his research.4.I don’t see that no one is discussing anything with me.Vice versa! They are discussing it, so much smoke is coming out!It’s just that no one can object to anything on the merits.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 11:01:16 amCan you tell us about the results of your conversations with the authors?

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 01:07:29 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 12:21:28 pm169 W of power at 1 rpm is 1600 Nm of torque. How can it be stopped with a bare hand (in the video)?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 01:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: eutectique on February 05, 2024, 01:07:29 pm1. where did you see 1 rpm?2. how did you calculate 1600 Nm without taking into account the pulley diameter?3. in this video the operating mode is by no means optimal. The table shows the data in optimal mode.4. watch this video.it looks like no one risks sticking their fingers into the pulleys

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 01:35:44 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 01:21:08 pmDo I need to know the pulley diameter to calculatetorquefrompower? Please explain.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 01:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: eutectique on February 05, 2024, 01:35:44 pmIn the same place where you saw 1 rpm.So where did you see it?How can you calculate the force applied to a pulley without taking into account its diameter?

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 02:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 01:48:11 pmI amnotcalculatingforce. I am calculatingtorque.Now, tell me why do I need to know the diameter to calculate torque from power?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 02:05:44 pm
content: I'll tell you right after you tell me where you got 1 rpm

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 02:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 02:05:44 pmaka "I don't know"Otherwise, why is it a secret? Either you know and can tell eutectique or you don't and are deflecting.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 02:45:55 pm
content: Why don’t I know? I know.I took this from the same place where he took 1rpm.so as soon as he answers, you will know my answer

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 02:55:51 pm
content: So if he doesn't answer, why wouldn't you want to explain? Either you can and should be happy to show your expertise, or you can't and just need an excuse to hide that.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 03:23:37 pm
content: Yes, why don't I answer if he doesn't answer.My answer is that - I picked it out of thin air.I decided to pump him up - but does he understand what he blurted out?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 03:29:09 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 12:28:47 pmHas it finally dawned on you that this idea is worth stealing?But how can you steal something that is already in plain sight?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 03:33:56 pm
content: Finally the real clown is out of the bag.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 03:45:21 pm
content: @Hydro, do you even understand how much energy is 1J/s which is 1W?According to the table you posted, such a hydropower station of 1m depth produces 3430 Joule per second. This is 3430W and boils down to 0,000952778KWh. Good luck in powering your house with it.Edit: I overlooked the fact that it is continuous. The small number is just the amount of energy for a single second.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 04:41:03 pm
content: To reiterate:Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 01:21:08 pmThe holes in your knowledge of mechanics are profound.You don't even know the basics.For your education, $$\tau = \frac{P}{\omega}$$where $\tau$ is torque, $P$ is instantaneous power, and $\omega$ is angular velocity.There is no "pulley diameter", or "lever" in the formula.Distance from the centre of rotation does not matter.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 04:42:26 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 05, 2024, 03:45:21 pm3430 Joules per second = 3430W = 3.430kWIf this continues for one hour, you have generated 3.430kWh

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 05:08:35 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on February 05, 2024, 04:42:26 pmTrue, and if you only use it for lights and a fridge or so it will suffice. But if you want to run your washing machine simultaneous with your vacuum cleaner, fridge, toaster, microwave, heat pump, etc. it ain't gonna cut it. Our house has a 9KW connection, so I would need three of these "power plants" and a big river nearby. Not possible in the small stream that runs in the fields next to our plot.As a proper solution for switching to "renewable energy" it is useless due to it being small scale, and impractical for large deployment. Large scale geo thermal might do the trick, but as with everything else, what are the long term consequences.And on an other note, what would the life expectancy be of such a mechanical structure in a stream powerful enough to drive it. With dirt and it causing erosion I don't expect to long.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 05:33:52 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 05, 2024, 05:08:35 pmI disagree with your assertion that small scale is useless. I would consider a near continuous supply of 3kW from a clean energy source on my own property to be a huge win. It would mean low cost, low carbon hot water supply and lighting. Add battery storage to enable some higher intermittent loads. The incoming mains supply would then be used to power the highest (but short term) loads.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 06:25:42 pm
content: Yes, I don't understand what exactly is so bad about having lighting, refrigeration, computers and a few other things running 24/7 for free

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 06:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: magic on February 05, 2024, 06:25:42 pmIt's irrelevant, because you are not going to get any of that from whatever nonsense is being presented in this thread

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 07:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 05, 2024, 06:35:28 pmNo, but if we wanted to start a circus we now know where to find a clown

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 07:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: magic on February 05, 2024, 06:25:42 pmAnd how is it for free if you have to, at first buy the contraption and then replace the blades every so often, and what other maintenance is needed. Nothing is for free these days.Just as the lures for switching over to for instance a heat pump. It pays it self back in so many years they state. No it does not. After so many years you most likely have spent just as much money as you would have when you kept running your gas system. And after that so called payback period the system might need replacement because it wore out.As it happens we are looking into another solution for heating our house, because the hassle with fire wood is becoming to much for me. For the wife it is also a bother and she finds the smell very irritating, so a solution with fuel oil or pellets is not an option. Fuel oil is also phased out, but both would be cheaper to install. Running cost would be on par with the fire wood we use now or in case of the pellets somewhat higher.An air to water heat pomp is very uneconomical in this region due to the fact that it needs resistive heating to cope with low outside temperatures. Geo thermal is much better in performance but costs an arm and a leg to install.We are waiting for the quotations from some companies to see the differences. We did get some insight in running cost for both types. Air to water would cost us about 2200 euro per year in electricity were as ground to water would do 970 euro per year.Any way you turn it the comfort is going to cost us.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 07:57:26 pm
content: I'm not insisting that anything presented in this thread is practicalbut I objected to the notion that continuous 3kW isn't worth bothering with. Yes, it won't power peak loads and you will need other sources or very restrictive scheduling, but I wouldn't be surprised if actually most consumption at most households is by loads of less than 3kW over long time.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 08:00:47 pm
content: Not to rain on your picnic, there,....but;I'm wondering about regulatory stuff, boring and often unfair or unclear rules and all.Going into middle of stream might cause stresses on animal life nearby, like perhaps river otters, that sort of thing (that people often express that they care about.)Pesky questions like this often get waved off. But you could at least state that there aren't any regulatory concerns, for river beds and immediate surrounding property (even private lands).So, what is the waterway 'build-out' option, maybe for private lands and creeks ? What about roads and ramps, or other accesspoints ? I mean, is it simply "that's private land...don't worry." ?Oh yeah, (now that I got started), what about any occupational safety requirements ? Any folks to be hired, to maintain the plant ?Even drowning risks are taken into account when employees have to go wading, in a dynamic and possibly changing setting (seasonal rain overflows).I don't think a rational business and insurance person would feel 'safe and cozy' (with that 'energy' plant), without some defensive approach.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 08:16:14 pm
content: Yes, very good points.And what about if a tree branch gets into the water and blocks the device. By by power.Or like the, by RJSV mentioned, seasonal effect of a sudden rain flood taking your "power plant" away because the shoring's were not good enough.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 08:46:05 pm
content: A couple of non-technical facts. Follow the money...German Treshchalov,the author whose papers Hydro has repeatedly shared, is not an academic researcher. He has led is own company, ERGroup or ERG, for the past 16 years:https://www.linkedin.com/in/germantreshchalov/?originalSubdomain=uzThe Youtube channel Hydro has linked to twice in this thread has only those two videos, both put up over the past 8 days. And as it happens, that channel is also named ERG:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOTyVjisYjonxLLgKNtsUjwOtherwise, ERGroup does not have a lot to show for a company that has been in business for so long. But theywillmake it big "real soon now"TM, with an innovative energy technology to be launched later this year:https://www.ergroup.asia/We still don't know who that mysterious "professor from Michigan" is, whose analysis Hydro has sharedthreetimes (and who just happens to publish in Serbian according to Hydro, so we only get censored English excerpts from his work).And we still don't know how "Hydro" is related to this merry bunch, and what his interests are in all of this. Honi soit qui mal y pense...

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 09:54:06 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 05, 2024, 08:46:05 pmOne thing that should be evident, Mr. Hydro lacks a certain amount of basic math, engineering, and science background. I'm estimating Grade 10 level math & science.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 05:19:20 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on February 05, 2024, 09:54:06 pmRelax, guy !I'm a businessman. I have no academic background. Only technical courses.When I need it, I hire academics, engineers, programmers.But it seems that you all don’t even have a technical education, so I definitely won’t hire you.First does not understand that in order to stop a pulley by hand, you need to know not only the torque, but also the diameter of the pulley.Another one managed to multiply 3 kW per millisecond and is proud of it.Hey dude ! Try multiplying it by a nanosecond! You will get 0.000..... 0000952778KWh.Your wife will be proud of you!The third already from the first page of the topic threatens to find errors in the formulas.It would seem that if you see them there, show them to everyone and prove to everyone that this is all bullshit.But he doesn't do it!Because there are no errors and therefore he cannot find them!

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 05:34:30 am
content: Quote from: magic on February 05, 2024, 06:25:42 pmAbsolutely right!These technologies are not intended so much for Europeans, Canadians or Australians (although for them too).But to a large extent for farmers in Pakistan, India, China, Africa, and South America.As we say:ਚੰਗੇ ਇਰਾਦੇ ਅੱਧੀ ਲੜਾਈ ਹਨ

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 07:12:39 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 05, 2024, 03:45:21 pmAnother factor.3 kW at with a depth of 1 m (turbine height) is being actively discussed and no longer seems to raise doubts.A conventional free-flow turbine (Darier turbine or Savonius rotor) under such conditions according to the Betz limit can theoretically produce only 0.5 kW * 0.59 = 0.295 kWHowever, as can be seen from the table, increasing the vertical size of the turbine (depth) increases the turbine power in a cubic dependence.Thus, by increasing the vertical size to 1.5 m, we will increase the turbine power by 1.5^3 = 3.375That is, up to 11 kWAnd daily energy production is 275 kWh!Is this not enough for anyone else’s home?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 07:14:55 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 06, 2024, 07:12:39 amThere is no such power because all the numbers quoted are fiction and no such device can operate in the manner described.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 07:21:59 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 05, 2024, 01:21:08 pm

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 08:00:09 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 06, 2024, 05:19:20 amGet your own facts straight. The number I stated is per second. Multiply it by 3600 and you get the alleged 3.4KWh. There is nothing wrong with the math I used there. Converting energy expressed in Joules to KWh means simply divide by 3600000. Look it up on the internet.And I owned up to the fact that I overlooked the continuous nature of the alleged 3430J/s.I say alleged because what is on paper is yet to be proven to be correct in real live, and the first video does not show it, no matter the size of that pulley.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 09:29:03 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 05, 2024, 08:46:05 pmShared even three times ??Did you count?Commendable!What attention the topic has attracted!And you say it's not interesting...For me it is defined as Serbian.And you ?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 10:12:28 am
content: I get it that you have no scientific background, man. But could you please learn to adhere to just the minimum of a proper scientific discourse, by disclosing your full sources? No screenshots of partial documents, no blanked-out names, but actuallinks to the source? It is not difficult.On a more general note, I don't get your approach to this thread. You seem to look for validation of the technology. (In an electronics forum, which is not the best place to start with, by the way.) But if technical validation is what you want -- why don't you give us the full information? And why do you push back so heavily if someone criticizes the technology? Isn't criticism exactly what you came for?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 10:26:23 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 06, 2024, 10:12:28 amAnother clown

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 11:20:38 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 06, 2024, 10:12:28 amCriticize.You have everything for this.You had 9 pages of discussion for this.And if you want to criticize the authors.Write to the authors or to the journal.All the details are there.Go ahead !

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 11:21:13 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 06, 2024, 10:12:28 amSo what about that Serbian paper from Michigan? Source?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 11:27:00 am
content: I gave the sources.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5317741/#msg5317741Are you blind?Get over it for now.When you do, I'll give you more.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 11:42:02 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 06, 2024, 11:27:00 amThose links are obviouslynotthe sources for the scan you showedhereand multiple times as aGoogle translation. The one from the "professor from Michigan", you know?I was beginning to consider that your interest might be sincere, but you have conviced my otherwise again. You are either trying to troll us or to con someone.Let's get back to chocolate chip cookies, that was by far the most rewarding discussion in this thread yet.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 12:22:31 pm
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 06, 2024, 09:29:03 amShouting expletives in a crowded place with pants down would attractthe same sortof attention and would be equally embarrassing.Quote from: Hydro on February 06, 2024, 09:29:03 amYet another fail. This is Russian.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 04:55:30 pm
content: QuoteGets my voteAs it happens, I am expecting to receive a batch of the previously posted recipe in the next day or two.

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2024, 09:21:15 am
content: Quote from: eutectique on February 06, 2024, 12:22:31 pmThis is clearly not our case.For example, when I see something like this, I just avoid it. And if it’s shown on TV, then I switch the program.All intelligent and smart people do this.I'm sure everyone here is like that.Or not ?

author: Hydro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2024, 09:22:13 am
content: I'm sorry.Urgent business matters have arisen. I'm very busy right now.I found out everything I wanted in this topic.You can close it or you can continue to discuss anything here.At least cookies.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2024, 09:44:55 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 07, 2024, 09:22:13 amYeah. Right.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2024, 10:13:37 am
content: Quote from: Hydro on February 07, 2024, 09:21:15 amFirst you call us amateurs and clowns and now you are trying to stick a feather up our ass with commenting that you are sure everybody on here is smart and intelligent.What is it, make up your mind.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2024, 10:39:11 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 07, 2024, 10:13:37 amHe has: he appears not to be a member anymore.Good: improves this forum.Bad: source of amusement has disappeared.EDIT: appears to be banned.I've only recently started "ignoring that user" (due to excessive irritation at a perceived drift in the forum), and it appears that has two (more) effects:their status is not shown in their posts, which isn't unreasonablesearching the member list does not reveal them. That is surprising, partly because makes it less easy to unignore someone

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2024, 12:35:20 pm
content: This thread and its sister were a mess from the get-go and have been all over the place and back which it is a pity because there are a few kernels of interesting topics in there.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2024, 01:04:50 pm
content: QuoteIndeed! The chocolate cookies hold great promise

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2024, 01:05:55 pm
content: But, seriously, I always thought anything moving along a belt would suck the living daylights out of a power source, and that seems not to have been taken into account.