Desoldering station - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Noidzoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:13:11 pm
content: I have just bought a used xytronic 968. There was no literature or manual with it and I'm having trouble finding anything online. If anyone has a web address or such where I may be able to find such I would be grateful.I would also be interested to hear from anyone who has had experience in using/owning one.This my first desoldering station so any advice or opinions gratefully received.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 08:44:42 pm
content: Lots of videos online. Even Dave has a couple. They are probably your fastest way to get up to speed.Check your power cord. On my ZD-985 (and most people’s, though many people don’t know it) the hot and neutral in the IEC (“computer”) power cable are reversed!! Which is terribly dangerous, especially considering that cable could easily end up on another piece of equipment.

author: Noidzoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 09:57:10 pm
content: Thanks FlyingHacker, but I have already looked for videos online and unless I am doing something wrong I dont think eevblog has any either. Would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction.Many thanks.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 11:01:17 pm
content: there still in business maybe just email them ....http://www.xytronic.com@FlyingHacker: xytronic 968 and the ZD-985 are not the same thing

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 11:06:58 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on July 01, 2018, 08:44:42 pmHalf of the world does not even know what is polarized mains plug. As long as earth wire is not miswired with live wires, there is no danger. Why? Because inside equipment nobody treats "neutral" any different than "line" wire. If such devices were built, they simply would not pass safety tests.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 11:47:03 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 01, 2018, 11:06:58 pmI am glad that you would tolerate such wiring errors in your home. I sure wouldn’t. Would you not care if all your outlets had hot/neutral reverses?Most devices are only fused on the “live” wire here in the US. So say the piece of equipment has a short to case ground using a good power cable. This blows the fuse on the live wire. Now you move this equipment to another room to try it again to see why it’s not working. You decide to use the power cable that is already in the other room, which, unbeknownst to you, is the power cable with the hot/neutral reverse. You are barefoot on a concrete floor and plug the unit in while touching the metal case. The case in now live because the “neutral” wire is live and there is no fuse on that side.A miswired cable is unsafe, period. It is silly to argue otherwise.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 11:59:51 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on July 01, 2018, 11:47:03 pmI would not because they are not polarized, just like most of Europe.BTW, what will you tell about double insulated devices which even in US have plug which is not polarized? They still have a single fuse.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 12:06:29 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 01, 2018, 11:59:51 pmI understood that, but here in the US (and UK) they very much are polarized. Products (sometimes unsafeky) assume that as well. I think the UK may require fusing both lines, but as far as I know we do not, even though we should.I assume most of your products are fused on both wires? Also, the stuff off eBay often doesn’t get safety tested.Long story short, if you have one of those reversed power cord cut it and throw it away!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 12:08:25 am
content: QuoteWorst case circuit breaker will disconnect the line wire (and GFCI in modern installations). As long as case is earthed, you won't receive electric shock. If you think that fuse inside the device is supposed to protect you from electrocution, you couldn't be further from the truth.EDIT: and if case was not earthed, the fuse would not blow in the first place if live wire got shorted to the case.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 12:10:11 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on July 02, 2018, 12:06:29 am95%+ of products available here are fused on one wire. UK has polarized plug which is completely different from the rest of Europe. UK plug also has internal fuse because they use ring wiring with circuit breaker which have higher current capability than single socket. We as most of Europe use star wiring with 16A circuit breakers.QuoteI could not care less about that. Plugs ar symmetric if used in our sockets. The exception it that plugs usually are universal with french sockets which are indeed polarized. The real concern is counterfeit cables with hair thin copper strands. I stumbled on such a few times.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 01:55:52 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 02, 2018, 12:08:25 amThat is correct, but assume the sec9nd outlet has an open ground, or the user has already used a three prong to two prong adapater, bypassing the ground... (yes, getting far-fetched).And of course I don’t think a fuse is designed to protect people (other than from fire).There are definitely cases where a miswired cable will cause problems, and, again, arguing that a MIS-wired cable that is not wired to specs is just plain silly, not to mention irresponsible.You may read about the advantages of polarization in many locations online. That is left as an exercise for the reader. Obviously, many people here thought it was important enough to implement it here decades ago.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 11:30:58 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on July 02, 2018, 01:55:52 amToo far fetched. Blowing up a devicein a good socket firstand then plugging it into a faulty socket without earth to get electrocuted. Much higher chance is that line and neutral are reversed in the socket to begin with or device just failed in socket without Earth. In those cases it won't matter at all. Also dunno if you are aware, but IEC mains filters (Y capacitors between live wires and GND) are combined with a socked and are used before any fuse. So with them it completely does not matter at which wire fuse is used.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 11:43:19 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on July 02, 2018, 01:55:52 amIs miswired L/N acceptable? - No. Does it pose any danger? - No. This is what I have to say. You on the other hand made a big fuss, called it "terriblydangerous" even though xytronic does not even have anything to deal with Zhongdi.

author: Noidzoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 12:03:22 pm
content: Quote from: innkeeper on July 01, 2018, 11:01:17 pmThanks for that, I've been to that url but the "contact us" links don't work on this device (or is it bad links).You are right of course regarding the machines being different. This is the one I am referring to......http://www.xytronic.com/pi/p-968.htm

author: Noidzoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 10:26:40 am
content: Quote from: innkeeper on July 01, 2018, 11:01:17 pmI did actually manage to get in touch with them and I got a reply saying they discontinued the 968 fifteen years ago and can't find a manual for it.This made me think two things:1: Have I made a big mistake acquiring this old machine?or2: Is the 968 a good machine as it is still being catered for with spares still available from the likes of Rapid after being discontinued so long ago?Any thoughts gratefully received.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 01:37:34 am
content: lol talk about a totally hijacked thread!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 01:52:28 am
content: It is not "terribly dangerous" or even "slightly dangerous" to have the neutral and live swapped in the cord. It doesn't exactly scream high quality but it's not a safety issue either. Polarized receptacles are a reasonably good idea and do offer a small safety improvement for some very old equipment like "AC/DC" transformerless tube radios but that isn't anything that will have an IEC cord. Virtually anything with that style cord is going to be designed for a world market in which case the polarity of the incoming power cannot be guaranteed. What would be "terribly dangerous" is designing a piece of equipment today that relies on having the correct polarity in the mains cord for safety.I don't think the side the fuse is on even makes much difference. Say you fuse the hot and the incoming wire breaks off the fuse holder and shorts to the chassis, what then? The fuse is on the "correct" side, the cord is properly polarized, but you have an unfused short to the chassis in a not entirely unlikely situation. Good thing the metal chassis is also grounded and you have a circuit breaker to protect the whole circuit. The equipment fuse is to protect against a fault that causes an overload which is not enough to trip the whole circuit. Any kind of short to chassis is going to trip it immediately long before even an inadequate power cord melts.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 05:00:26 am
content: Quote from: Noidzoid on July 03, 2018, 10:26:40 am130, Jian Kang Road, 5F Suite #9, Chung Ho,Taipei Hsien 235, Taiwan.TEL: 886-2-2221-1889FAX: 886-2-2226-1588Website:http://www.xytronic.com/E-mail: xytronicpeterchai@hotmail.com

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 12:58:49 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 02, 2018, 12:10:11 amFWIW, in addition to the French (type E) and Schuko (type F) which together comprise most of Europe, the Swiss (type J) and Danish (type K) plugs are also used in Europe, and those two are also polarized when grounded. (All four are unpolarized when using ungrounded plugs.)If anything, the Schuko is unusual in allowing unpolarized grounded connections — almost every other grounded plug enforces polarity. (The Italian plug [type L] is the only other unpolarized grounded plug.)Quote from: james_s on July 07, 2018, 01:52:28 amA cord with reversed wires, or switching on neutral, is not dangerous if the device is properly designed and assembled. But is every device both properly designed AND properly assembled? No.So yeah, is itlikelythat a cord with swapped polarity willcausea problem? No. But it can contribute to (as in, cease to prevent) a dangerous situation whose proximate cause is some flaw in design or assembly. I agree, it's edge cases, but still, why not take every precaution?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 05:10:17 pm
content: Absolutely, take every precaution, my only point is that the swapped wires is probably not dangerous. Incorrect, yes, sloppy, yes, best corrected, yes, but dangerous? No, not likely.