Advice on ESR meter, I've seen all chinese stuff on ebay..  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 04:52:21 pm
content: Hi guys well basically I'm trying to find a good ESR meter that will help me out to diagnose failing electrolitic. Cause the bulged tops which happened commmonly was the main cause you could see physically. But when they do seem fine.. you have no other way of testing rather with an ESR meter in circuit.So what's the best device for ESR test in circuit I've seen the BLUE ESR which all people say it's top notch and works for inductors and coils as well , would be good some device for checking coils and inductors as I dont have one. I do have a couple of multimeters but normal ones.This is the link I got for the Blue ESR which explains how to use it .. and seems pretty straight forwardhttp://www.electronicrepairguide.com/esrmeter.htmlNow what about thisQuoteThere aren't still any ESR meters which can measure ESR on caps below 0.1 uf ?Now all the links from chinese on ebay.-http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Capacitor-ESR-Tester-IN-Circuit-Capacitance-Meter-Milliohmmeter-/251297439702?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a827e9fd6-http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-ESR-Meter-Test-In-Circuit-electrolyte-Capacitor-Resistance-0-01-30-Ohm-/221277235859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338526aa93-http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-ESR-Meter-Test-In-Circuit-Electrolyte-Capacitor-Resistance-0-01-30-Ohm-/261350478205?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd9b3d17d-http://www.ebay.com/itm/MESR-100-AutoRanging-In-Circuit-ESR-Capacitor-Low-Ohm-Meter-Up-to-0-01-to-100R-/360865491645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405426abd

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:02:13 pm
content: here on my repository you can see almost all available esr meters, for DIY or buythere are some nice one that are made by eevblog membershttp://kripton2035.free.fr/esr-repository.htmlif you have the money, get a DER EE 5000 LCR meter (that has an esr meter) for some $90 it's a real bargain.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on February 22, 2014, 05:02:13 pmHi thanks so much for your quick response, never heard about the DER but seems ships directly from japan should be quality made.don't see many specs.. what's the lowest capacitnace you can check ESR on this meter. If you had to buy any other proffesional grade a couple lees bucks . This one you said I can measure coils and inductors as well right.You know why I just came up to ESR ?. cause my actual samsung Un46d7000. Every now and then started to have a symptom when electricty went off.. and I had to turn on, then started to turn off clicking (relay) .. and then came on.. now today electricity went off.. and started doing that weird syptom turned off - on .. and then it clicked but backlight didn't come on.. so I'm assuming the power supply went bad. I checked electrolitic caps for bulging but all seem fine.. most of them are rubycom and samyoung. One of the sam young is rated 24v x 1000uf measured it on my meter and threw 1700uf the only one with that high reading. Could this one be affecting the whole supply.I did already check some mosfets.. but they seem to switch ok..Seems to me the inverter board it's not firing.It's this same one this guys posted in this threadhttp://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25207

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:10:31 pm
content: These amateurish "ESR meters" don't measure ESR, but rather impedance. That's why they can't measure the ESR of small capacitances - they can't distuinguish between reactance and resistance.The DE 5000 is a much better choice and will measure true ESR, even for small caps. Also, it will tell you the dissipation factor, which is a much better indicator of capacitor health than ESR.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:21:52 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on February 22, 2014, 05:10:31 pmHi thanks so much ! is it pretty common for a TV power supply led tv to be faulty even with caps not reaching to a physical damage like bulging ?It's a samsung led tv and i was thinking it could be something else cause the caps don't show any signs of damage.Once I get the DER , how am I supposed to check what's the acceptable ESR value for a specific cap. I've seen those chinese esr meters have a table with uf and ESR. How does this work? I would have to download the datasheet of the cap manufacturer?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:31:21 pm
content: Quoteagain on my repository the details and links for the deree 5000 :http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-deree5000-cl.htmlQuotecompare with a similar capacitor you have with same voltage and capacityor yes verify with the manufacturer datasheet is also a way to go.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:53:57 pm
content: Quote from: dssence on February 22, 2014, 05:21:52 pmIt's not the most common way but it's not uncommon either. You would get the esr from the datasheet. It often will tell you the frequency to measure it at etc. Also mos brings up a good point. Dissipation factor is a better measure because it tells you the amount of energy being lost in the capacitor.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: Retep
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 05:59:21 pm
content: Can the DER EE 5000 LCR be used in-circuit? I looked at its specs, but didn't find any statement regarding this.I have a version of the Bob Parker 'ESR' meter, and I must say it is great for repairs, mainly because it can test in-circuit. Now I know that in-circuit testing is inaccurate at best, but for repairs you are usually not interested in the exact ESR, but rather if the capacitor is suspect or not. Not having to desolder caps (after which you might as well just replace them) is a great time saver. Also its low ohms measurement capability is useful to locate shorts. For things other than repair you're no doubt be better of with a real LCR meter.Regarding the question what the use of the table you see on those ESR meters; it a bunch of 'typical' ESR values for a capacitor with a given capacitance and voltage rating. If you measure a 'ESR' (impedance) that is way higher than what is in the table than the capacitor is most likely a dud. If the measured 'ESR' is lower chances are that it is just fine.Another way to asses the condition of a capacitor if to put a scope across its terminals when the circuit is powered on; if there is a significant ripple that makes that cap suspect. Of course it is not exactly the safest method when working on the primary side of a power supply.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 06:28:23 pm
content: The DE 5000 test voltage is around 600mV. But with a DUT, it will be much less. I have used it in circuit and it works, but I don't like in circuit testing and I don't do it. It can mislead you when you're trying to find a fault and then you waste more time than it would have taken to desolder a cap. If desoldering bothers you, get a cheap desoldering station like the ZD915. That actually makes desoldering funESR alone is a pretty meaningless value, because an ESR value that's good for one cap might be bad for another. That's why you should look at the dissipation factor. Generally, a cap with a D of less than .25 is good for general caps, or less than .15 for low ESR caps. No need to look up any tables.Funny enough, the DE 5000 shows D by default as the secondary value on power up, so you don't have to press any buttons to change settings or anything.The DE 5000 is also very accurate at low ohms. It's got a resolution,andaccuracy of 1 milliohm.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 07:13:04 pm
content: I did in circuit measurments with the der ee 5000 and it works most of the time without desoldering anything.bonus : it gives a good capacity value even in circuits and often when capacitors gets dry they loose their capacity.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 07:29:27 pm
content: I use an ESR Micro from RadioDevices.info :http://www.radiodevices.info/esr/esr4.htmManual in english here:http://www.radiodevices.info/esr/esr4_en.pdfThe author of this esr meter is user RusMike on badcaps.net forums , if you pm him he can give you more details (if he has in stock meters, price etc)It works fine for my needs, occasional fixing of hardware.

author: Pasky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 07:30:50 pm
content: Does the DE-5000 also test transistors similar to that open source one that tells you NPN, PNP, if its bad/good? Sorry if this is a bit off topic.

author: Retep
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 07:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on February 22, 2014, 06:28:23 pmWith the Bob Parker 'ESR' meter I have had few issues with in-circuit testing (IIRC it uses a much lower test voltage). I'm aware of the limitations of in-circuit testing, but if the measured 'ESR' is suspiciously high you can be pretty sure the cap is bad, and that is all I need to know for repairs. It typically takes less than a second to figure that out. I don't mind desoldering, but even with the best desoldering equipment I can't take a cap out, test it and put it back in (the right way!) a second or so. And once you got the old cap out, why not just put a new one in? The heat of desoldering and resoldering isn't going to make the old cap any better and a new cap isn't that expensive.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 08:01:02 pm
content: DER meter is made in Taiwan. It is a rebadged IET meter. I have heard nothing but good things about it and is one of the few handhelds that lets you do true 4w measurements.

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2014, 08:08:40 pm
content: Quote from: Pasky on February 22, 2014, 07:30:50 pmNo. It is a dedicated LCR meter with dissipation, Q, and ESR capabilities.http://www.ietlabs.com/lcr-meter/de5000-lcr-meter.htmlWhat you are asking about is exemplified by the Peak Atlas DCA55 or DCA75 meters.http://shop.anatekcorp.com/products/component-analyzers/

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 12:23:42 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on February 22, 2014, 06:28:23 pmI think to say this is too restrictive. ESR has its place. Consider this sweep of D and ESR from 100 Hz to 5 MHz for a typical electrolytic as one might find on a motherboard power supply. D is the green curve and ESR is yellow. The scale is .001 units at the bottom of the image and 1000 units at the top. Units are ohms for ESR and no units for D. Marker A is at 1 kHz and marker B is at 100 kHz:Such a capacitor would be used in a switcher at some frequency above 10 kHz. D just goes above 1.00 as the frequency passes 10 kHz and remains there until the frequency reaches 300 kHz. This would lead one to think that the capacitor is bad, but in fact it's a brand new, low ESR Rubycon, not bad at all.In switchers, knowing ESR is the parameter of interest because ripple current flowing through the ESR is the cause of heating in the capacitor, which is the main factor leading to limited lifetime of the capacitor.When capacitors are used in switchers, ESR is not without meaning.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 12:43:14 am
content: Guys so I'm kind of lost now. What should I do I want to test caps on the power suppy and knowing if they need to be replaced cause their internal resistence has gone high , dielectric it's dry and not doing it's function.Now my question is , when I do the testing on ESR in circuit powersupply has to be powered ? or without any power? . What's best for this purpose Blue ESR or DE 5000 ?Just a simple test , with DE 5000 how do I get to know the ESR value for a specific cap is ok , I'm oblied to get the caps datasheet to see if the ESR it's fine. Again I just need something good and quick to check the cap its failed without getting a bulged top.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 01:21:47 am
content: Testing in circuit is done with the power off!!As far as how to know what the ESR of a good and bad cap is, have a look at this video:He says, and it's quite true, that accuracy in measuring the ESR to find a bad cap isn't very important, because when a cap (electrolytic) goes bad, the ESR goes way up.This question has been answered in threads on this forum and elsewhere on the web.After you use an ESR meter for a while in repair work, you will get to know when a cap is bad.As far as which meter to use, if all you care about is repair work, finding bad electrolytics, you don't need the DE 5000. The Atlas ESR70 is good because it also measures the capacitance, but the Anatek Blue ESR will do the job too. I would stay away from the MESR100.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 01:50:14 am
content: The dissipation factor D (tan d) for an electrolytic capacitor is measured at 120Hz, as per the datasheet.There isn't a need to measure at higher frequencies, unless it is mentioned in the datasheet. It willalwaysgive you an accurate result concerning the health of that capacitor.The capacitance is also measured at 120Hz.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:10:04 am
content: So can I use the DE 5000 in circuit testing for ESR ? or should I go with BLUE ESR ? I want something proffesional that would add up to my bench equipment Oscilloscope, mmeter, lab power supply etc.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:18:11 am
content: That's up to you. Both would do the job, but the LCR meter would be more useful in the long run. You can measure in circuit with the DE 5000.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:23:24 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on February 23, 2014, 02:18:11 amI concur. If it was me, I'd get the DE 5000. It's a full function device, having more functionality than ESR specific meters. A good LCR I'd a great accompaniment to a solid multimeter.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:24:20 am
content: You can measure with both but like the video says, often you won't get a valid result.In lots of hardware products, you have several capacitors connected in parallel, which affects the measurement. So if one capacitor is bad, your meter will give you a value much lower than the actual esr value, because the other capacitors in parallel with that bad one mask it.DE 5000 is a LCR meter , it does more things than just measuring the ESR. It measures inductors, resistors, measures capacitance, all at various frequencies.The Blue ESR simply reports just one thing, an approximation of the ESR value.If all you want is to have a tool to check if a capacitor is bad on a motherboard or power supply, the blue esr is enough.I wouldn't buy blue esr though, it's too expensive for what it offers. I bought my esr micro for around $50, shipped, and it does the same thing.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:32:57 am
content: In lots of hardware products, you have several capacitors connected in parallel, which affects the measurement. So if one capacitor is bad, your meter will give you a value much lower than the actual esr value, because the other capacitors in parallel with that bad one mask it.You will know when that happens because the LCR meter measures capacitance at the same time. If it measures a capacitance much higher than the marked cap rating, the cap will have to be isolated before testing.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:48:23 am
content: Quote from: The Electrician on February 23, 2014, 12:23:42 amYou're mixing up two things. If you want to know if a capacitor is defective/out of spec, ESR alone is meaningless and D is a much better indicator. D is measured at 120 Hz as per the datasheet, e.g.:http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/ABA0000/ABA0000CE132.pdfAs you can see, the D factor of all types falls within a narrow range. As a capacitor ages, D increases and if you see a cap with a D of say, 0.5, you know immediately it's bad, you don't have to consult any tables or anything.But if you're designing a SMPS, sure, you compare the ESR of the available caps and use the one with the lowest ESR.Of course, to be completely sure about the health of a cap, you'd measure D (at 120 Hz), ESR (at 100kHz) and capacitance (at 120 Hz) and compare all these values to the actual datasheet. That is the most accurate way and an LCR meter allows you to do that, as opposed to a cheap "ESR meter".BTW, nice vector impedance analyzer. What make/model is that?

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 03:03:34 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on February 23, 2014, 02:32:57 amI mention it because Blue ESR only measures ESR, so if he goes that route he won't see the capacitance. The ESR70 and ESR Micro I have report both and it helps.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 11:20:58 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on February 23, 2014, 02:48:23 amEven in the limited context of detecting a bad capacitor, I disagree that ESR is meaningless. The very definition of D is D=ESR/Xc. If the capacitance of the capacitor doesn't change, then the only way D can increase is for ESR to increase. How then can you say that ESR is meaningless?And, sometimes as capacitors fail, their capacitance decreases along with an increase in ESR. If a capacitor's capacitance decreases, Xc increases and that decreases D, offsetting some of the increase in D caused by the increase in ESR.Furthermore, as the fellow in the video I linked above says, when electrolytics fail, typically ESR doesn't just increase a little; it increases a lot. The low cost so-called ESR meters have their deficiencies for design work, but as a repair tool they do a great job by just measuring ESR (or a good approximation to ESR).I don't disagree that D will undoubtedly increase greatly when an electrolytic goes bad, but the low cost ESR meters don't measure D directly. What I disagree about is your assertion that ESR is meaningless for detecting bad caps.Quote from: mos6502 on February 23, 2014, 02:48:23 amIt's a Hioki IM3570:http://www.hioki.com/products/lcr_resistance_signal/lcr_resistance_meters/654One way that a capacitor could have a high dissipation factor and still be ok is if the capacitor has large capacitance and therefor a low SRF. Then, at 120 Hz, Xc might still be not much more that ESR. I dug out an 18,000 uF capacitor and got this result from a sweep on the analyzer:At 120 Hz, D is a little more than .5, yet this cap is perfectly good.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 12:46:23 pm
content: Check the datasheet. There is no way D will be 0.5 for a good cap. If it is an old stock one, depending on voltage rating, D could go up to 0.4 max and still be within spec.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 02:23:42 pm
content: First, the TS writes there is no other way to find bad caps. That is not true. If you know what you are doing you do not need an ESR meter. It is a handy replacement for knowledge. Most times you replace more caps as needed but that is often not bad. In consumer stuff, if a few caps fail, the rest will follow. Just replace them all at once instead of a few every now and then.I repair a lot, but most of it is test gear, not much consumer electronics, and I never measure ESR in situ. I find most problems using a scope and multimeters. And if it does not run, I desolder the caps, reform them, test for leakage, capacitance , D and ESR. If it can be powered I use a scope and if find a problem regarding caps, I desolder it and then I start measuring it but that is because I like to study component behauvior and then want to know what en why it fails. (I have a lot of capacitance/impedance/ESR etc mearsurment gear)I think both partys are right. ESR is meaningless and ESR is important. Depents on your point of view.Electrician is right, ESR can be an important parameter in design. In a lot of cases it must be low to minimise dissipation. Sometimes it must be high to keep something from oscillating. So if you repair a circuit, it can be important to use a cap with the right ESR. And that means, the same ESR. Low ESR is not defined. If I make caps and my best one is 1000 Ohm, then I am allowed to call it a low ESR cap. While an other brand can makes a cap with 0.000001 Ohm ESR, so his 0.01 Ohm version is his high ESR cap.But in case you measure ESR need to know the specs to make a judgement, or have enough knowledge to know what would be right. Most 1uF caps are sloughtered after false accuse with an ESR meter. My IET and my homemade ESR meter measure 1 u with out problems. My homemade down too 100 nF and less accurate even lower. The IET DE-5000 measures everything you feed it. Most of my bridges do too.ESR as a value while searcing for faults in a circuit is a bit meaningless. OK, it can be handy as a replacement for knowledge about fault finding. But it is meaningless because you must know the ESR. And most users only use some table on the meter. But who cares. If it is 1 to 5 years old an caps fail, replace them all or junk it.And that is the funny part. Most ESR meters measure impedance at 100 kHz and do not measure ESR.The datasheet often states the impedance at 100 kHz. That is not the same as ESR. ESR is a part of impedance.The datasheet states D, sometimes also ESR as it is related to D, but at 100, 120 or 1000 Hz, not at 100 kHz.So real ESR meters that measure at 100 kHz give you real ESR but that is a number that most times can not be verified for 100 kHz. And the not-ESR meters that measure impedance , that is in the datasheet at 100 kHz, tell you they measure ESR instead of impedance.I agree with the people here, that do prefere D (dissipation factor or DF, if you know it, it's a very logical parameter. )over ESR. I do too. I have several ESR meters, have a collection of bad documenteed caps and a whole bunch of bridges and analysers for caps but I use D.There are a few failure modes:- low capacitance- DC leakage- high D (and ESR)- mecanical failuresThese things can be on their own or combined.There is one pitfall, many people who repair consumer stuff measure capacitance with a multimeter that uses DC. If ESR gets up, and if capacitance decreases also, the meter is fooled by the ESR and gives a capacitance that can be the double of what it is. The same is true for not vectorial impedance meters.I have seen caps that failed in one of the modes above and caps that have more of the problems.I have seen caps with a great ESR. But totally shorted for a few volts DC. The ESR meter will not find it. The capacitance meter with an in circuit usable signal amplitude will not alway find it. capacitance can be good. Only a leak test will find it. And often a good bridge will too because they some can generate a rather high voltage.I have seen high ESR and good capacitance and no leakage. A high voltage cap had good ers and good capacitance but it looked like a geiser in circuit (blowing a lot of smoke ) It did not leak DC far below the working voltage but around 10V below the working voltage in circuit, it started leaking severe, You would not have find it if you had not seen it blow smoke and only used ESR OR lcr meter.That is why I think only measuring ESR in situ is a bit meaningless.http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3775my page about the ins and outs of ESR measurement.And about 1000 other topics here about ESR

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 03:00:13 pm
content: Hi,I have spent some time studying and designing ESR meters. I also own HP 4274A and HP 4275A LCR(Z) meters. The HP LCR meters have no trouble at all making very accurate measurements on components that are out of circuit. But this does not mean that that they are my first choice when troubleshooting.1) A good ESR meter has some attributes that a LCR meter does not have:It should have protection from charged capacitors and applied voltage.It should be able to measure in circuit.2) It does need to be super accurate to find bad capacitor.I agree with PA4TIM that voltage measurement with a scope can be used to find bad capacitors. The ESR meter can then be used to confirm that the capacitors are bad. The ESR meter has the some advantage that bad capacitors can be found by testing without apply power to the unit being tested.I have posted a couple of DIY designs for ESR meters on the forum.The 5 transistor ESR meter, use an analog meter, and has limited protection:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/5-transistor-esr-meter-design/msg171364/#msg171364My later design, ESR meter adapter, has 'best in class' protection and is very accurate.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/msg341177/#msg341177Have you considered building your own ESR meter?Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 06:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on February 23, 2014, 12:46:23 pmCheck the data on these catalog pages from Cornell-Dubilier:http://www.cde.com/catalogs/CGS.pdfLook under the 25 volt heading; the cap I measured is a 25 volt cap. I see a number of capacitors with typical (not max) D greater than .5. For example:Code:Capacitance (uF) ESR D3000 .235 .5313000 .082 .8018000 .052 .7122000 .043 .71

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 07:01:21 pm
content: Dssence I have been through the same processes you are going through.I brought a couple of the Chinese $25 ESR meters because they are good enough for most jobs (and in many cases upgradable).They measure capacitance, ESR and also check transistors, diodes, resistors etc.There is a big thread on them here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/$20-lcr-esr-transistor-checker-project/I also have a precision bench LCR meter which can pull of a few more tricks on top of that.I will end up buying a DER EE 5000 as it's portable the best value by far and has a working 4 wire kelvin solution if I need to take an accurate measurement.I recommend going straight to the DER EE 5000, or pick up a Chinese one if you have budget limitations or want a backup or a side project.If not the DER EE 5000 I would get a Mastech MS5308 (it has a few quirks though and is not as good value).If you choose the DER EE 5000 consider power supply and cable options before you decide on a seller as this can blow out the cost.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2014, 07:03:41 pm
content: It is so with high capacitance caps.The datasheet actually tells you to add a factor to the dissipation factor when the capacitance is above 1000uF.0.02 x 18, in this particular case, which would take the ballpark dissipation factor to about 0.61 for a good cap.So the system still works, as long as you make the correction for caps above 1000uF.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 12:24:25 am
content: Quote from: Shock on February 23, 2014, 07:01:21 pmHry thanks so much for your advise, yep I think the DER is going to be the best viable solution. Now thing is if I could get my hands on some detailed training manual on how to use the DER to diagnose bad caps on powe supplies like from ledtv's and so on. The DER does work for in circuit testing right?. When you said about " consider power supply and cable options before you decide on a seller " what do you mean you said this referring yourself to the DER meter? You mean there are some sellers selling only the device without the cables? that 's kind of a scam I guess.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 01:32:55 am
content: No scam, some people don't need the test leads or AC power adapters. Just browse the ebay listing for de-5000 and choose the one with the options you want. The alligator clips and tweezers are true 4 wire units. The PC connection seems expensive for what its is and doubtful to be useful in repair.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 01:37:51 am
content: Quote from: don.r on February 24, 2014, 01:32:55 amHi I was thinking about the DE-5000 with the alligator clips and tweezers, but at the same time are those connectors propietary ? cause I see they have a black box I don't know if there's some specific circuitry for the DE-5000 or I could buy some cheap multimeter leads and I could save some money .

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 01:58:27 am
content: Quote from: dssence on February 24, 2014, 01:37:51 amNope. Dave did a teardown on the IET units (same thing) and they are just empty boxes connecting wires. No circuitry. They are there primarily for structural rigidity I would think. If you don't need true 4w measurement to the DUT, just buy the DE-5000 for $90 and use your own test leads.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:38:34 am
content: Does the DE-5000 use a battery like 9v , or a power supply to work? I believe if I buy it without all the accesories and smd tweezer it comes with the power supply right?

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:50:53 am
content: Quote from: dssence on February 24, 2014, 02:38:34 am9V battery or optional external power. Here is the manual:http://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdf

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:56:10 am
content: Quote from: dssence on February 22, 2014, 04:52:21 pmQuote from: Jay_Diddy_B on February 23, 2014, 03:00:13 pmIf your target application is just to hunt down bad caps in switching power supply, pc motherboard and similar while "IN CIRCUIT", I'm re-emphasizing JDB's suggestion above.Even though its diy, for above mentioned purposes, its "MORE" than enough and do not underestimate it's effectiveness.As usual, the devil is in the details, its the built-in protection that is very important, and you only need one accident that you forgot to discharge the cap, that moment within few nano seconds will instantly fry your LCR meter for good.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:56:46 am
content: Thanks Don, by the way I've checked DER Website and there's lots of quality instruments. I really liked the DE-208A digital meter. But I can't happen to find an US dealer to buy from, ( I might buy..it buy I found it on aliexpress at 208 U$S dollars kind of expensive I thought would be in 100 bucks range. I own a mastech-Quail MS8221C which acts good now). I've got missing a quality analog dmm and found one from DER for 49 bucks would that be a good option? thanksgoing back to the caps testing.. I have on this power supply from my led which stopped working. Was doing a relay clikc.. then turned off.. till it didn't turn on anymore . But I checked for any bulging caps and there aren't any. I checked capcitance of all of them with my mastech meter and one of them which was 25v/1000uf gave me 1700uf way out of scale.. could that cap be bothering ?By the way the power plug of the psu going to the mainboard of the led tv I checked all voltages without plugging to the mainboard and all voltages are as defined

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:58:22 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on February 24, 2014, 02:56:10 amWell if in fact I would be doing in-circuit testing of ESR , I would first of all measure the voltage on caps and discharge them to avoid frying the ESR meter.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:00:07 am
content: I would definitely get both the tweezers and the croc clips. The price difference is minimal. I won't say multimeter leads are useless, but ... just by moving them around you e.g. get a change in capacitance by 10pf or more. This also makes calibrating a pain because it will often fail. If you really want to use normal leads make them as short as possible.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:01:45 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on February 24, 2014, 03:00:07 amawkay but I could well use the SMD twezzers to check electrolitics right? or they're only suitable for smd caps (non electrolytic)

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:09:21 am
content: Quote from: dssence on February 24, 2014, 03:01:45 amThey actually work well for testing leaded caps, too. The big advantage is that you only need one hand, so it's very quick. The opening is about 10mm. For larger caps, you can just squeeze the tweezer legs outward.

author: ron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:15:41 am
content: How much input protection does the DE-5000 have? In Dave's video he said he didn't see any. Can that be so?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:19:46 am
content: Quote from: ron on February 24, 2014, 03:15:41 amIt's not unheard of at all. As discussed earlier, this is NOT a multimeter. it is not intended to see dangerous voltages it's for testing passive devices. In fact input protection can mess with the accuracy of fuses by adding inductance and capacitance. So most of the time expect little to no input protection.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:21:51 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on February 24, 2014, 03:19:46 amHi pedro so this well means that It's mandatory to discharge all caps or at least test them if they're charged before testing for any nominal value such as ESR or D or whatever with the DE-5000?. By the way I've been checking for other LCR meters and they're way more expensive than the DE-5000 why is that? It's weird casue this instrument its made in japan and I suppose it's well quality made and tuned.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:22:22 am
content: Do not forget the DE-5000 test signal level is 0.5 V "RMS", definitely not good for in circuit testing.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:29:18 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on February 24, 2014, 03:22:22 amDAMN so the DE-5000 it's not suitable for in circuit testing , I asked and ppl told me it was suitable for in circuit testing. So for in circuit testing should I go back to blue esr ?

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 03:55:03 am
content: Why are you so jumpy? Relax. Take a chill pill. 0.5Vrms is the open circuit voltage. With a DUT connected, it will be much lower. In circuit testing works just as well/bad as ESR meters.Not many circuits have electrolytics in parallel with pn junctions anyway. Especially not SMPS.Regardless, I still wouldn't rely on in circuit testing for reasons stated in one of my previous posts.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 07:22:09 am
content: Quoteall LCR meters are made for precision measurements and I've never seen one that discharged caps before measuring - it's the tech job to do that before measuring. if your goal is to measure lots of caps in circuit to find bad caps that have bad esr then an esr meter with protection and discharge is made for you. but a good esr meter you buy (not DIY) is almost as expensive than the deree 5000 lcr meter but with this one you have to discharge the caps first. you choose.Quotethere is a family of lcr meter that recently came out. they are all based on a cyrustek chip ES51919 and ES51920 and their main caracteristic is they are cheap because of that chip that does most of the job. IET first came out with the DE5000 around $500 but with calibration and certificates and IET notoriety... then clones came out for less than $150 and the der ee 5000 at $80 is an almost exact IET clone except the calibration and certificates which can be necessary for some people.

author: dssence
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 08:13:16 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on February 24, 2014, 07:22:09 amSuch a complete answer, thanks so much. Yes that's what I was thinking spending so much money on Blue ESR which is made for that specific task of discarding bad caps checking ESR , I think it's not worth taking into account the DE-5000 it's a proffesional grade instrument which would add up to my bench stuff.So you say with blue ESR the device itself discharges the cap if it's charged with dc voltage? . With the DE-5000,before I would be discharging the caps myself with a 2k resistor 5watts normally.I own a digital meter MS8221C which is handy for most situations , but I find it kind of slow when autoranging to check resistor values and in some other ocassions. Are there any fluke similar dmm similar to the specs of my 8221C worth taking a look. And I've seen from these guys from DER an analog meter which I don't have an advice?

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 08:26:23 am
content: Quote from: dssence on February 24, 2014, 03:21:51 amI think you need to read more carefull and try to understand what is written here instead of jumping around like an overstressed bunny. It is said before, this meter is sold from Japan but made in Taiwan. That shipping location does not mean a thing regarding quality.There are some people who had some problems when they got the DER DE-5000 so it looks like DER does not test it's gear very good. IET does test the items shipped (and ships from the USA) but is much more expensive. It is a very good instrument, They even offer NIST cal for it. I have the IET version abnd I like it very much.I think it would be wise to buy a good book about electronics and read that before you go on and fry your LCR meter. I think in your case one of the simple , cheap, idot proof, ESR meters would have been a better and safer choise. The DE-5000 is much better but you must understand how LCR meters work and how to read data and use them. And I doubt if you can. But do not worry, many people have no clue about LCR basics, like the difference between Cp and Cs, or between impedance and reactance, not to talk about things like admittance, susceptance an conductance, DF, Q, loss angle, polar vs rectangular etc etc.

author: fpliuzzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:09:30 pm
content: Quote from: dssence on February 24, 2014, 08:13:16 amHello,I own the original ESR meter designed by Bob Parker. This meter (and the Blue version) do not automatically discharge capacitors before they take their reading. Here is the cautionary wording in the user's manual for the Blue ESR meter..."Beware charged capacitors:The very first thing to do is to make certain that the equipment you’ll be using the ESR Meter on is disconnected from all power. Most electrolytic capacitors will be discharged by the circuitry around them within a few seconds of the power being switched off. However, be warned that filter capacitors in power supplies can remain dangerously charged, especially if there’s a fault. Before using the meter, make sure that all power supply capacitors are fully discharged. You can do this using well-insulated probes that include a series 100? 5W or similar power resistor. Do not just short the capacitor’s terminals together as that can not only damage the capacitor but can also be dangerous. Always allow several seconds to ensure a complete discharge. Apart from the risk of surprise and injury to you, large charged capacitors can seriously damage the meter."I've had my ESR meter for quite a few years now and never had a mishap. I'll be getting a DER EE DE-5000 in a few days and will try to be equally mindful of what I attach it to.Regards

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 02:39:58 pm
content: in the video at the first page of this thread they show the blue meter measuring a charged cap without problem, but it's a 35v charging, not a 400v ... the peak atlas esr meter discharges effectively the caps.

author: AllanMN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 10:10:15 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on February 23, 2014, 02:23:42 pmCould you say, or point to, more information about reforming caps? All I know is "sometimes" it works to s--l--o--w--l--y (hours? days?) raise the voltage on "old" caps that haven't seen voltage for "years" to get them back into shape. Is there a basic recipe to follow? i.e. 0 to 100% WVDC in 4 one day steps of 25%?I asked about this after arcing out two big caps in a Lambda power supply here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/big-old-lambda-ps-60v15a-les-f-04-0vAt $35 NOS, it would be nice to save them!Allan

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 10:45:14 pm
content: There's a procedure outlined in the attached document.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 10:56:28 pm
content: I have a page about reforming including how to build one.http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1385

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 11:05:30 pm
content: Here is the document that was referenced in the thesis above:http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-HDBK-1131/hb1131.pdfEssentially, hook the cap up to a power supply that is limited to 5 mA per cap.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2014, 11:44:52 pm
content: I own the Peak Atlas ESR 70. It discharges capacitors if they're charged but only to 50V. You can download the manual or read the many reviews in the blog or youtube. It is made in England and the quality is very good. It is a very specific piece of equipment, so is not an LCR meter but is designed to do what is supposed to. Many blog members own it and as far as I can tell they're happy with the device. It is just one more tool in the arsenal of tools you might need if you repair electronic equipment very often. There are many methods to measure ESR but the best one is the quickest and simplest. As mentioned before, it is not always possible to measure a capacitor capacitance and it's ESR in circuit.http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 10:11:37 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on February 25, 2014, 10:01:34 amreally more expensive than the der ee 50000 (twice the price) and mike said that the user interface is absolutely awfulyou can choose it if you want ...

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on February 25, 2014, 10:01:34 amThe DE 5000 does 100Hz, 120Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 100kHz.The AT824 only does 100Hz, 120Hz and 1kHz. The AT825 adds 10kHz. But they're both the same price, about twice that of the DE 5000. Only the AT826 does 100kHz, at three times the price of the DE 5000.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 02:48:53 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on February 25, 2014, 12:06:36 pmder ee 5000 has 4 wires sense too !

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2014, 09:19:45 am
content: I never used one of my ESR meters that way. I never measure C or ESR in situ. I use classic tools like a scope and multimeter. If I check caps, most for instruments used not oveer a long time, I look at DF, not ESR.However I did do tests on caps measured in situ and measured desoldered and results were rather bad. You can often find the really bad caps. Many good caps seemed to show a higher ESR as desoldered but that is no problem better replace some to be sure as miss some, but the scary part was that several bad caps measured right in situ.But for the beginners and other people with not much experience or knowledge in fauld finding with a scope or multimeter, the ESR meter can be handy tool and the only way to solve a problem.

author: AllanMN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2014, 01:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on February 28, 2014, 09:19:45 amI've been trying to better my repair skills and as I see it, if you know (or can guess) the function of a cap in circuit, you can look at a scope on it and recognize if it's performing it's function there, therefore good/bad. You probably need a schematic/parts layout but perhaps can just go from a block diagram knowledge of the device and guessing. Also, a lot of "tricks"/experience knowing what components fail most often and how (their failure mode).I like your idea to try ESR in situ and compare to results when removed to understand better what it's good for.Thanks so much for sharing your experience here!

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 06:57:17 pm
content: after having a pretty bad experience with the well known chinese ESR/cap meter (it just stopped working entirely on its own after NO use, no measurement of actual devices) I cannot recommend the chinese test gear.yes, random failures can happen with any brand of gear, but this is ridiculous! I had mine in storage (I did a house move) for nearly a year and when I took it out to start using it, it turned on once, then went out. nothing I can do will get it to turn on again. complete failure and didn't get a single day's actual use from it.if you do buy chinese gear, realize that its a crap shoot and you may have just thrown your heard earned cash away with no recourse in getting it fixed or replaced. I sent email to the seller (aidtech_us) and so far, his 'suggestion' is to replace the batteries. a more insulting reply could not have been made (sigh) ;( yes, I checked the batteries and even used a lab supply in place of them.if the meter gets fixed or replaced, I'll change my tone; but right now, I'm quite livid on the blatant failure of a piece of test gear that I paid good money for and expected at least ONE good use out of, let alone several years of service.damn.

author: rstoer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 07:09:01 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 10, 2014, 06:57:17 pmAs with any country, some Chinese manufacturers are better than others. It seems rather unfair to condemn the whole country because your meter broke. You might at least tell us the company that made it.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 07:18:19 pm
content: I am trying to work things out with the seller. the maker? who is that? do we even know? and my chinese is quite poor; I don't expect to be able to have email with a chinese company who makes these. I am not their customer, either! the sales guy in the middle is the customer to the vendor. I'm just the end user.what I will find out is: what kind of support exists when problems arise. it will be informative (to the forum) what happens next. if it ends up being a door stop, then that's your answer. if I get support and am not out the price of the item, I'll also report back with that info.and this IS typical of chinese made gear that is made at low cost. sorry if you disagree, but this is a widely held view and I'm far from being alone in this. a unit that dies just by turning it on and you want to give them the bernefit of the doubt? (boggle!).

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:06:38 am
content: Mastech is based in Hong Kong. Someone will speak English there. There is a support link on their web page.Explain the failure of the meter and they may have a solution for you. You may have to return it for a service though and that can get expensive.http://www.p-mastech.com/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=13There is also an importer in the US you may want to speak to:

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 12:43:32 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on March 11, 2014, 12:04:08 pmHuh? What about the DE-5000? It's all over the forum. Best handheld LCR meter available, not even considering the price.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2014, 12:43:32 pmAre you saying, that you would prefer the DE-5000 over the Agilent U1733C?If so, may you explain why.I am also in the market for a new handheld LCR meter that I can take along on my travel to clients.Thanks

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on March 11, 2014, 02:18:36 pm- 4 wire measurement- more accurate- no firmware issuesQuote from: mojo-chan on March 11, 2014, 02:25:48 pmI couldn't care less about their email address. The meter works great, that's all I need. If you have a problem with it, you talk to the seller anyway. Besides, I haven't read a single report about anyone having a problem with the DE-5000, but a bunch about the U1733C.

author: rstoer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:26:55 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2014, 02:54:12 pmI recently purchased a DER EE DE-5000 and so-far I'm very pleased with it. I ordered it on a Thursday from a Japanese seller advertising express shipment. They shipped it on Friday and it was at my door (in NJ) at 10:30 am on Monday - WOW!!!.This meter has been shown to be accurate in several reviews and, like mos6502, I've heard no horror stories regarding it. I'd be curious to hear if anyone has gotten a dud.I agree that a seller in Japan who peddles LCR meters and stuffed animals is not likely to be much help if the unit fails (except for DOA's). I was willing to take that chance, but the risk-adverse could purchase the same unit under the IET brand. Even at their $335 retail, it's probably still the best unit for the price and there should be no issue with IET standing behind it in the event of failure.

author: AllanMN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 10:24:35 pm
content: I don't understand what this is. A ground lead?From the DER DE-5000 manual:"If required, Guard line (TL-23) canprovide shield for DUT (deviceunder test ) preventing frominterference when measuring highimpedance component"

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 10:44:27 pm
content: a guard, in general, is sort of a reference point. it may or may not be a ground. its a way of getting some common-mode cancellation (things that hit both the hot wire and the guard wire gets cancelled out).

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 10:46:43 pm
content: The guard is the common of the measuring circuit and the shields of the tweezers and alligator clips are connected to it

author: AllanMN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 03:16:00 am
content: OK. I think I understand. If you don't have or use this accessory, it must be internally connected.The clips and tweezers, yes. But for less precise measurements, I'm thinking I don't need to spend the $25 to get the guard?I'm curious why it only measures up to 20 mF, no higher, but up to 2000 Henrys!Honestly, it looks like too good a deal to be true.Allan

author: Pasky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 04:46:47 am
content: It's the real deal. I just bought one off ebay from a Japanese seller as well about 2 weeks ago. Works great.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 04:56:15 am
content: These Cyrustek chip based handheld LCR meter currently are the best value/performance in the market, its proven and quite versatile.Get one if you really need a decent LCR meter, of course a bit too expensive if its just for ESR measurement alone.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 05:04:31 am
content: Just to add my 2c: I bought one a few months ago and it works a treat. Couldn't be happier.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 09:05:32 am
content: Quote from: AllanMN on March 12, 2014, 03:16:00 amThe guard line is just a wire with two 4mm plugs. If you ever need one, you can just use a standard test lead.As for the test range - high C = low Xc, high L = high Xl. 20mF ~ 80 milliohms at 100Hz, 2000H ~ 1.26 megohms at 100Hz. Outside of these ranges it's difficult to do precise measurements. The Agilent U1733C has exactly the same range limits.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 10:40:35 am
content: Quote from: rstoer on March 11, 2014, 03:26:55 pmThis Taiwanese unit from Japan is tempting. I would like to buy the IET version but it is not sold in the UK or Europe as far as I know. I got an e-mail quote from IET for a direct sale about a year ago and the cost of postage was $140 which brings the price up to $475 + VAT(Tax/Import duty) which is over 4 times the cost of the one from Japan - it also makes it much more expensive than the Agilent unit (Agilent 1733C is £284 inc VAT from Conrad, buying the IET unit would cost around £350).I was hoping that IET would make some dealership arrangement with someone in Europe but they've not done so.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 11:01:04 am
content: Quote from: AllanMN on March 12, 2014, 03:16:00 am20mF = 20000µF

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 02:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2014, 02:54:12 pmHow aboutthis one? At least it was fixable so I didn't have to send it back.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2014, 07:15:08 am
content: I recently picked up a DER EE DE-5000 also, it is a great little LCR so far. Very happy with it.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2014, 05:00:14 am
content: +1 on the DER EE DE-5000 LCR MeterArrived in good condition with accessories in just under two weeks after ordering on eBay from "japanesiana".

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 08, 2014, 05:34:48 pm
content: Just for learning - I've got a DE-5000 meter, and this particular cap are bulged, and looks terrible, so i know it's dead.I'm just wondering, what to look for, while measuring caps. What frequency do i wanna use? Ie. What is the "golden pointer" on a dead cap?The cap is a Samxon 1000 uF, 16V, 105C. GK (M) series,Tests;1 KHz; D = 0,799, 7,646 uF, Q = 1,251, ESR = 16,6210 KHz; D = 1,296, 3,416 uF, Q = 0,771, ESR = 6,02100 KHz; D = 1,780, 872,0 nF, Q= 0,561, ESR = 3,23This is a SMPS 9V DC powersupply for a creditcard-device, the DUT did not boot up, did not even turn the back-light on. Hooked up the scope to the PSU, and it looks like an EKG-monitor, with ~4V P-P - Will this PSU work again, if i replace the cap?It did work, when it was stored away - Can other things go wrong in a PSU?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2014, 05:47:37 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on April 08, 2014, 05:00:14 amJust got mine from :http://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-DE-5000-Handheld-LCR-Multi-Meter-with-TL-21-TL-22-/171260782793?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:1120I had to pay £8 handling fee on top of the VAT/import duty but it was still a bargain compared to other options.It seems to work very well but I've only tried it on one C and one R.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2014, 06:48:08 pm
content: Quote from: cs.dk on April 08, 2014, 05:34:48 pmI use the first auto lcr mode of the de5000 at 1KHzlook at caps with D>0.2, and if they are not far from a heatsink, then change themsamxon brand = change with no regretif in doubt, compare with a new cap same capacity/voltage.also sometime D is good but the capacity is very low compared to what it should beto be sure you must desoldier the cap.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2014, 12:19:38 pm
content: yes the readouts are repeatable with deree de5000 -I dont have the precisions instruments robrenz has, but the demo he made with the IET DE5000 it looks almost the same with deree DE5000 I have.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2014, 03:43:47 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on April 10, 2014, 12:19:38 pmIts been 95% established that Der EE makes the DE-5000 for IET labs. The IET labs ones are supposedly a slightly earlier revision (Rev. E or F if I remember correctly) of the board than what is currently being sold (I think Rev. H).

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 12:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: cs.dk on April 08, 2014, 05:34:48 pmThank you for answers,Another question - Any problem in replacing this 16V 1000 uF with a 25V 1000 uF? I guess it's not a problem, everyone says the capacitance is most important.What if i replace it with a 16V 2200 uF? Will the PSU fail?

author: Savetheday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 10:35:03 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on February 22, 2014, 05:02:13 pmHiDid you see those ESR meters you can also add to your list if you like to.This is from Hollandhttp://smdking.com/hikashop-menu-for-categories-listing/product/8-lcr-esr-auto-detecting-ranging-multimeterThis is from Germanyhttp://www.elv.de/KT200-%E2%80%93-zwei-Ger%C3%A4te-in-einem-Komponententester-und-ESR-Messger%C3%A4t/x.aspx/cid_726/detail_47290Thanks.