Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 08:10:48 am
content: On Batterfly i saw that Rigol has also launched oscilloscopes with 12 bit resolution. Right now only available in China:https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/blog-posts/rigol-hdo4000-hdo1000-launch-domestic-marketRigol Homepage HDO1000:https://mall.rigol.com/item.html?item_id=1427Rigol Homepage HDO4000:https://mall.rigol.com/item.html?item_id=1432Chinese datasheet of HDO4000:https://rigol.com/Images/HDO4000_DataSheet_PDF_zh%20_tcm4-4912.pdf

author: hhappy1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 08:39:39 am
content: I am very excited.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 09:38:03 am
content: Interesting, from this video, is that a detachable battery pack at the back of the scope ?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 09:51:35 am
content: I hope these step up the bar for everyone.BUT those buttons layout... even my microwave oven looks sexier.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 09:52:12 am
content: Good looking pricing, some pressure on the SDS2000 HDQuote from: BravoV on July 20, 2022, 09:38:03 amGoogle translate says its a battery.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 10:52:07 am
content: QuoteWhy will the samplerate drops down to 1GSa/s when using all channels?Would expect 2GSsa/s then.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 11:43:17 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 20, 2022, 10:52:07 amThis would mean that 800MHz is not possible with all 4 channels active.Lets wait for international prices and see if Rigol wants to place the HDO4000 as competitor to SDS2000x HD. HDO1000 should have lower price i guess.

author: Wintel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 01:14:00 pm
content: Quote from: Domitronic on July 20, 2022, 11:43:17 amOnly 500MHz Bandwidth @ 1M ΩBandwidth (-3 dB) @ 50 Ω : 800MHzBandwidth (-3 dB) @ 1M Ω : 500MHz

author: nomead
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 03:54:38 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 20, 2022, 09:51:35 amI dont mind the looks and layout but compared to DP800-series this is admittedly conservative.So this was the shady survey about few weeks back. "Do you prefer western reputable brand with VESA-mount or cheap 12-bitter which can be riglolled?"https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-customer-research/

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 06:48:39 am
content: Quote from: Wintel on July 20, 2022, 01:14:00 pmA better BW with 50 ohms mode suggsets that they may have actually different input amplifiers and not just an 50 Ohms resistor to ground, which is good.Probes for the 1 M input impedance are usually limited in the BW anyway, rarely more than 300 MHz and even whan the input is no longer really high impedance at 500 MHz.With a single ADC for all 4 inputs, or all ADCs combined to get the full 4 GSPS it is normal that the maximum sampling rate will go down to 1/4.For the highest BW one would need active probes and not many would buy 4 active probes. I would still be nice to have 2x2 GSPS even of the 3rd channel is used as a trigger.12 bit resolution for the ADC naturally does not come with very high sampling rate.It was a disign decision (possibly due to the available ADCs) that some of the 4 channel DSOs can't combine all power to one channel and thus only have 2 steps like 1 or 2 GSPS depending on the number of channels used. This was kind of 2 x 2 channels and the 4 channel version not directly included with the ADC. 2 ADCs does however add to the costs - may still come in the future.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 08:08:58 am
content: I took the chinese datasheet of the HDO1000 and put it through DeepL translator. Below are some screenshots.A european supplier told me this morning that the new Rigol devices will also be available here soon. Though i'm not sure if all of them or only some models.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 08:10:34 am
content: More screenshots

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 08:21:49 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on July 21, 2022, 06:48:39 amCould also be memory or FPGA/ASIC fabric bandwidth. 2GSa/s * (12 bits + 4 bits padding assumed) * 4 channels active = 16GB/s memory bandwidth. Or 128Gbit/s. That is not insignificant. If it is an x32 DDR(4/5) interface then it is running at ca. 2GHz. Which is quite fast for an embedded application

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 10:05:07 am
content: I wonder if lecroy will be happy with the choosen model names, especially with the HDO4000....

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 10:30:26 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 21, 2022, 08:21:49 amPretty stupid argument with thatifcondition, scopes use wide memory busses. The memory is the cheap bit. ADCs are the expensive bit that is usually limiting sample rate performance. There is a very remote possibility that the ADC -> FPGA/ASIC/SoC bus is the limit but not likely.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 10:52:04 am
content: Chinese HDO4000 datasheet translated by DeepL

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 10:52:54 am
content: more Screenshots

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 11:17:10 am
content: The price of HDO4804 without taxes in China is ￥29999. It's over $4000.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 11:32:24 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on July 21, 2022, 11:17:10 amYes? That is 1/4 of the price of a Leroy HDO4054A or Tek MSO4412bits with high speediswas expensive

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 11:34:28 am
content: Quote from: Someone on July 21, 2022, 10:30:26 amI don't think it's a stupid argument at allor I would not have made it. x64 interface could be used but that limits FPGA choices to ones with the package size to support 64-bit DDR. Don't forget you need RAS/CAS timing and readout too, so even at x64 you might be looking at 1.25 - 1.5GHz clock for instance to have comfortable timing margin. Which is pushing FPGA choices to high end, $1000 per chip territory (Kintex, Virtex etc., you can just about get x64 on Artix but you will not go above 1GHz.)If the architecture supports MSO function on other products it also has to have sufficient memory to capture the MSO data likely on the same bus.I am not sure if Rigol's ASICs support the 12-bit products yet, anyone know?

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 11:38:51 am
content: Quote from: Someone on July 21, 2022, 11:32:24 amFor a company thats still not really expensivce i guess and the hobbyists usually hope that the base model can be "enhanced".Interesting that both datasheets say that it is running on Android. Do other Rigol scopes also use Android?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 12:12:44 pm
content: Afaik no, before it was linux.(5000, 7000..( 8000 idk))

author: tigerwang202
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 05:39:48 pm
content: As far as I know, since the DS70000 series oscilloscopes, they started switching to the Android platform. I'm guessing part of the reason is the availability of high-performance processors on the market that run the Android platform. Part of the reason may be that they are not supported by the X86 platform due to the trade entity list.If you look at the description of the processor system in the HDO4000 datasheet "Cortex-A72, 1.8 GHz, Hexa Core", it seems they use ARM processor such as the Rockchip's RK3399. The processor receives the data collected by the FPGA through the PCIe bus, which may be a feasible way.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 11:20:11 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 21, 2022, 11:34:28 amIt sure is stupid, like saying but whatifa car maker puts a poorly chosen gearbox in a vehicle, it will be redlining the engine past 12k rpm and still wont go fast! Well you know, they probably know what they are doing and wouldnt make bone-headed choices....Pure imaginary "argument", strawman, nonsense. Wide buses dont need expensive FPGA's, just packages with more pins. Acquisition memory on a scope has predictable and steady access patterns, its not general purpose random access memory.How about wait until its actually known whats inside the device? Commentary based oncreative guessworkintentionally misleading hypotheticals isnt adding much.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 11:50:47 pm
content: QuoteExactly, let´s wait a while...As someone who bought actually siglents new 12 bit scope, I don´t get upset about this what I´ve seen in the specs, more the opposite.