Black Friday 3D printer suggestion - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 11:16:14 am
content: HiI have had a low budget and cheap 3d printer for a couple of years (Anet A6)it was an awful experience the quality of prints and also constant jamming of the nuzzle had drive me crazy, Now I want to upgrade to something better, since the tech has changed a lot, so as we are in the Black Friday deals, I want your suggestions and feedback on choosing a new one, Probably under 500$, what do you suggest?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 11:40:55 am
content: Bambu Lab have some good Black Friday offers. I am tempted by the P1S, currently available for $549 instead of $699 (USD). A tad above your stated budget (or more if you were talking CAD), but a big step up in performance. Those prices exclude their 4-color AMS, which is however available at a discount too.

author: Lindley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 12:22:26 pm
content: Yes its a very difficult choice and many think paying more will give them more.We got a modest Ender2 v2 a few years ago and its worked out fine for our needs, ie general hobby/diy interersts.Noticed that Creality have a sale on at the moment as you can see here they start from just CA$ 199 which is less than what we paid for ours in a similar sale.https://store.creality.com/ca/collections/ender-series-3d-printer?spm=..index.products_display_nav_1.1Well it cannot be any good ? Well have a look at these 2 ytube from the well followed CHEP.Think we know which we would recommend, though interestingly the higher priced V3+ and V3 3D printers with their more modern controls etc do not get a very good review.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 12:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: Lindley on November 23, 2024, 12:22:26 pmWell, I for one wouldnotknow which printer I'd recommend -- without knowing anything about the OP's needs and preferences. Does printing speed matter to him? Does he want to use filaments like ASA or PLU? Does he value "printing right out of the box", or is he happy to do some fiddling and tweaking (at least with slicers and profiles, maybe with the hardware)?All of these will determine whether the added cost of something like the P1S brings enough added value, or whether a generic bed-slinger will do the job. A video showing that they both can print a simple PLA cube (and downplaying the fact that one of them did it twice as fast) is not sufficient to say "one is as good as the other".

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 12:59:42 pm
content: thanks for sharing, my main concerns are print quality and dimension tolerances, then It would comes the speed, Printing in multi color is not meaningful for me, But if it has it, I would get it,What do you think of Sovol SV08 3D Printer or elegoo Neptune 4 Plus? are they better alternatives?

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 01:06:32 pm
content: If you can stretch your budget, the Bambu P1S with AMS. I wouldn't bother with anything else.I now have 6 of them in my print garden (6 isn't enough to call it a farm (:-)By the way, the AMS is not just for colour, if you put the same colour in two positions it will auto change in mid print if the filament runs out, no more wasted filament.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 01:17:49 pm
content: Quote from: woofy on November 23, 2024, 01:06:32 pmAlso, as others have confirmed in response to my question here a couple of days ago: The enclosed AMS keeps filament reasonably dry if you occasionally renew the slica desiccant. So it's a very convenient way to have four commonly used filaments always "ready to print" in the machine. That's what attracted me to the AMS and to the P1S.Personally I am still pondering whether to wait for the new Prusa Core One to come out as a kit in spring. More expensive still and outside of the OP's budget, but I like the built-in-Europe, quality components, open platform, future-proof/upgradable aspects.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 01:42:07 pm
content: Unless you go *seriously* up-market, what guarantee do you have that what you get will be any better than what you already have? Spending a few bucks on your existing printer may give a better return than buying a whole new printer.A few point to consider:Any enclosed printer is going to do better than an open frame Prusa I3 clone like the O.P's Anet A6 that isn't in an enclosure, just because eliminating drafts gets you better control of part cooling, so less warping and less trouble with build plate adhesion. A temperature controlled enclosure is the ideal.Many I3 clone 'stock' part cooling fan setups *SUCK*. If you aren't running a centrifugal blower fan with a custom duct, odds are you cant print anything with significant overhangs without warping. If the bow of a benchy (printed with the stern towards the fan) doesn't look decent, look at the fan and duct.Square block hotends like the Anet MK8 style benefit from a cheap silicone sock on the hot block - it reduces the risk of serious burns from accidental contact with the hot block, and the added insulation reduces the influence of the part cooling fan on hot block temperature. While you are in there, check the heater and thermistor are secure with a light smear of thermal paste in their holes for better thermal coupling.Brass nozzles are a wear item - if its giving trouble change it, and if its not an all-metal hotend, change the PTFE heat-break liner tube at the same time. Its usually just a short piece of PTFE Bowden tube. The lower end *MUST* be absolutely square and protrude fractionally from the heat-break so it can seal against the back of the nozzle.I3 clones frequently have a lot of trouble with Z-banding caused by excessive Z screw runout. Its worth fitting one of the Z screw decoupling mods, preferably one that uses an anti-rotation arm for the Z nut carrier that rides on the Z rod, and some sort of thrust bearing to support the X gantry. When choosing a mod, min. Z height can be a problem. You may need a longer heat break tube to accommodate the extra height of the thrust bearings. You also need a Bowden tube going from the intake side of the extruder to the frame or reel holder so varying filament tension as the reel unwinds doesn't pull up on the print head, disturbing its Z height.Nearly any printer without automatic bed levelling can benefit from adding a bed levelling sensor e.g. a BLtouch (or clone). You'll get a more consistent first layer which goes a long way to making 3D printing a turn-key operation. The downside is that you usually need to recompile the firmware to enable auto bed levelling and on low end printers with an ATmega 1284 based controller (rather than the vastly preferable ATmega2560 or even better a 32 bit controller), it can be difficult getting the new firmware to fit without pruning out features you'd prefer to keep. If the config files for the firmware for your printer's base model aren't available, recompiling the firmware can be quite an adventure!A textured PEI coated spring steel build plate typically gives much better part adhesion and easier part removal than the 'stock' build plate of budget printers. Its a fairly cheap upgrade, but due to the added thermal resistance of the air film between the PEI plate and the hot bed, if you need higher build plate temperatures e.g. for ABS, you may need to also add heat resistant thermal insulation under the hot bed to reduce heat loss. Due to the slower heating, always preheat the bed before starting your print. Consistent levelling may be an issue, so ideally it should be paired with an auto bed levelling upgrade.If you need dimensional accuracy, calibrate your X and Y axes with the belts properly tensioned! I3 clone Z axes are usually leadscrew driven so vertical accuracy is unlikely to vary except due to first layer problems.Many print quality problems are due to old or damp filament. If you only use your 3D printer occasionally or have medium to high ambient humidity, you'll need a dry box to store your filament. This can be as simple as a large plastic box with a tight fitting lid, and a disposable dehumidifier sold for use in cupboards. If you use silica gel you need some sort of humidity indicator to know when it needs to be regenerated.

author: wilhe_jo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 08:26:39 am
content: Have a look at the bambulab A1/A1 mini and the AMS light. I have the mini with an AMS as a prototype printer in case the 3 bigger ones are busy.Works perfectly fine and the AMSlite works a little more reliable for me compared to to "real" AMS... However up to now, there were very few problems altogether.The AMS is a game changer! Petg with PLA (or vice versa) interface layers makes supports that much better!Regards

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 08:40:58 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 23, 2024, 01:42:07 pmThank you Ian, that's agreatlist!One thing I would add is to replace no-name stepper motor drivers by a set with TMC drivers (Trinamic/Analog Devices). Ithinkthese have improved print accuracy for me, and Iknowthat they have eliminated the really annoying beepy noises from the original cheap motor current choppers.Nevertheless I could understand if the OP concludes "I have fiddled long enough with this printer, I want something that works out of the box". In which case I would advocate taking a big-enough step up and getting a printer with direct extrusion and an enclosed, ideally temperature-controlled build chamber.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 09:03:23 am
content: Unfortunately, the Anet A6 uses the Anet 3D mainboard, which has an ATmega1284 (half the program memory of an ATmega2560), and soldered on A4988 SMD stepper drivers. You aren't going to upgrade that to TMC drivers - no way no how! I suffer from one myself on my cheap I3 clone, even though it was CTC not Anet.However RAMPS shields are fairly cheap so if you happen to have an Arduino Mega 2560 gathering dust, that might be a viable upgrade path you can fit TMC drivers to. You'll need a duPont capable crimper as the existing cables wont fit.I forgot one easy upgrade - on printers with an adjustment pot on the 12V PSU, set it to 10% overvoltage (13.2V). The increase shouldn't be out of spec for any main board part or stepper driver but it gives you approx. 20% more heating power for the bed and hotend!

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 10:48:07 am
content: Thanks for the inputs, actually I hate Anet A6 printer, specially it's head, because it jams a lot also changing the filament is a pain in the ass, I should unscrew some screws to make it a bit loose so I can finally put the new filament into it.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 11:50:57 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 24, 2024, 09:03:23 amI built a 3D printer kit (designed here in NZ by Vik Olliver of Reprap fame) back in 2013 (or maybe very late 2012). It used an Arduino Mega2560 as the controller. It worked great, I printed a lot of stuff with it, but I sold it when I moved to Moscow in early 2015 and haven't had a 3D printer since, but I'm looking to get one soon.I'm actually amazed that a dozen year later people are still using the 16 MHz 8 bit 8 KB RAM no FPU AVR and not a 32 bit Arm or RISC-V with hundreds of KB RAM and hundreds of MHz!It very much followed reprap principles in that other than the Arduino Mega, RAMPS board, and stepper motors, al the other components were either 3D printed (and you could print improved versions yourself) or else materials that could be bought in hardware stores anywhere in the world.It looked like this...This is a V2, with dual Z axis steppers. Mine was originally a V1 with a stepper motor on just one side and shaft across the body under the print bed with two 3D printed gears forming a right-angle transmission to the threaded rod on each side.It was pretty crude, but actually worked well, once I replaced the kit plywood print bed with a small sheet of off-cut window glass I got for free from a local glasier.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 11:57:24 am
content: Oh, here's someone who documented the build of a V1, the same as mine started out.https://zype.co.nz/article/diamondmind-3d-printer-build/

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 12:30:07 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on November 24, 2024, 10:48:07 amYes the Anet extruder isn't the nicest - the lack of a thumb tab on the lever arm to push the v-groove pressure bearing away from the extruder drive gear will make it difficult to manually load/unload filament. My CTC plastic bodied extruder is even worse - no lever arm and no spring and screw to adjust the 'nip', which you have to set by slackening the mounting screws and nudging the extruder body sideways!Be careful loosening screws - the arm pivot and pressure bearing screws must be kept tight as any slop in the arm or bearing will cause inconsistent extrusion and even jams. The tension screw is fair game - it only needs enough pressure to grip the filament enough to turn the motor if you pull on it with the power off, or steppers inactive.You could upgrade the extruder drive assembly to one with a thumb tab, (though check clearances at the X travel extremes before buying, or you could use G-code for filament load/unload, which I find to be very reliable unless I am impatient and fail to properly preheat the hotend before doing a filament change. If the end of the filament has bulged due to heat creep and extrusion pressure it can be impossible to retract past the top of the heat-break or through the extruder drive, even with the pressure arm fully held down. At that point, if you haven't totally jammed or broken the filament by tugging on it, the easiest way to clear the jam is to unscrew the nozzle and feed the filament till you can cut it below the hot block. If the filament is broken, or jammed in the heat-break throat or extruder frame you'll probably have to strip down the extruder to clear it.Here's what I use in Marlin 1.1.x config file user command format:Code:#define USER_DESC_3 "Load Filament"#define USER_GCODE_3 "M83\nG0 E5 F5\nM0 Fil. gripped?\nG0 E50 F300\nG0 E10 F50\nG0 E-1 F50" //extruder relative >creep 5mm to engage > pause > fast load 50mm > purge 10mm > retract 1mm#define USER_DESC_4 "Eject Filament"#define USER_GCODE_4 "M83\nG0 E40 F200\nG0 E-60 F3000\nG0 E0 F50\nM104 S0" //extruder relative > ram > v. fast retract, cancel F3000 > cooldownand translated back into commented plain G-code:Load FilamentCode:M83 ;extruder relativeG0 E5 F5 ;creep 5mm to engageM0 Fil. gripped? ;pauseG0 E50 F300 ;fast load 50mmG0 E10 F50 ;purge 10mmG0 E-1 F50 ;retract 1mmFeed the filament into the extruder with gentle pressure and trigger the macro (or visa-versa). It creeps the extruder for a minute to grip the filament then asks you if its gripped.Confirm and it completes loading the filament. If its not gripped, reset to abort, re-enable the hotend heater and try again. If the distance from your extruder gear to the nozzle isn't 50mm change the fast load line to match.Eject FilamentCode:M83 ;extruder relativeG0 E40 F200 ;ramG0 E-60 F3000 ;v. fast retractG0 E0 F50 ;cancel F3000M104 S0 ;cooldownThe ram sequence requires the nozzle to be fully up to temperature or even 10 degrees hotter than your usual printing temperature. The E40 in the command is the length in mm of possibly heat affected filament to be purged, you may need to use E50. On the next line it fast retracts -60 mm which is normally enough for the filament to clear my extruder drive gear. You shouldn't increase this too much as if it jams on retract a longer movement will grind through the filament and force you to do a full strip-down.Note that Marlin (and most other firmwares) have max speed limits for motion, so the F3000 fast retract probably wont actually retract at that speed. It will retract at the lesser of the extruder's max speed or 3 m/minute.Ideally you'd recompile the firmware to enable these user commands, or you can send the gcode from your PC or save it to the printer's SD card as two files so you can run them from the printer control panel.Nozzle blockages are best cleared by doing a cold pull. If you have difficulty doing one in situ, it can be done off the printer - secure the nozzle in a paperclip with a M6 nut, clamp the paperclip sideways in a metal jawed bench vice with the nozzle facing away from you, then heat it with a lighter flame on the nozzle not the nut while pressing an offcut of filament into it till you get extrusion or backflow. Allow to fully cool then pull the filament steadily (but not so hard it breaks), and heat the nozzle with the lighter flame till the filament comes free. Done right, you can see right through the nozzle orifice afterwards.If you prefer to poke a wire up the hot nozzle, use a copper wire, stretched for stiffness rather than a steel wire or needle, as its important not to scratch or enlarge the orifice.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 11:41:54 am
content: Thanks for the inputs,brucehoult I'm going to shoot for klipper, also I like the idea of building one from scratch, the mina problem is fining a nice extruder and hot end with a nice heat bed, I think the rest is easier for us EE engineers.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 11:54:38 am
content: Another option if it's just for occasional use, in many places public libraries have 3D printers available, that'll give you access to typically pretty nice printers (UltiMakers for some libraries around here) at minimal or even no cost.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:09:08 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on November 23, 2024, 12:59:42 pmSo both of those are large format printers, is that a requirement? Otherwise they are quite different in design and price

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:37:54 pm
content: I want to start printing and modifying opulo PNP machine, so I thought Core XY machine would be nicer but Neptune 4 Plus price is nice too!