Spotting a Fake Hakko FA-400 and getting your money back! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unordung
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 07:46:43 am
content: Hey guys,I recently had the "pleasure"of dealing with a dodgy Ebay seller (The first time ever) and thought I would share my experiences with other to ensure the dodgy sellers don't make a profit.I have for years had a duinotech (Jaycar brand) fume extractor which for no obvious reason gave up after being left on overnight........... After several years of using Hakko products I am a bit of a fan so as you do I jumped onto Dr Google and searched for a Hakko fume extractor. To my delight a bunch of sellers were selling the device on ebay for around the same price as the Jaycar branded one I purchased a few years back. Without much thought I purchased the item from the Ebay seller who claimed the item was in Australia.A few weeks passed which tweaked my initial concern however the item did arrive. My delight however was rapidly eroded. The item was instantly not upto the usual quality standards you would expect from Hakko products which was further made obvious by the lack of an Australian standard shielded plug.This prompted me to contact Hakko via their email service found herehttps://www.hakko.com/english/contact/inquiry_form.htmlIn the email I explained my dissatisfaction with the overall quality of the unit and mentioned a few simple safety measures which were not adopted including the lack of the Australian standard plug (Making the item illegal to be sold in Australia).However whilst waiting for a response to my query I decided to do some research. Sadly there was no obvious way to tell if the item was genuine or not as I had nothing to compare it to and I was unable to find any resources on the internet.Lucky for me a fellow user on here Blueskull had the genuine item and was able to upload pictures so that I could confirm the item I received was a fake / counterfeit Hakko ripoff / knockoff.Once confirming the item was indeed a counterfeit I contacted the seller and requested a refund on the grounds the item was counterfeit. Sadly the seller did not wish to comply initially and eventually decided I would need to return the counterfeit item at my cost, so that I could receive a refund.......Dissatisfied with that arrangement I requested Ebay step in and help resolve the issue as the item was a counterfeit, not as described and quite possibly dangerous or at least non compliant.During this time Hakko had passed on my details to the Australian re seller Oritech who contacted me asking for more information including images etc so they could pass the information on.Shortly after the Manager for HK Wentworth Australia called me to confirm the item was a counterfeit.I thanked him for his efforts and arranged with him to obtain a quote for the legitimate item which he kindly provided.However this is where things turned sour, I contacted the seller and informed him HK wentworth had confirmed the item I received was indeed a counterfeit in the hope this information may speed up the process of getting a return. Ebay contacted me shortly after demanding that I show written evidence in the form of a letter from HAKKO stating that the item was counterfeit.I cant be the only person who thinks that in itself is absurd? The consumer is forced to prove the item is fake rather than the seller prove they sell legit items!? One cant expect companies to bend over backward and provided statements that another company is stealing their intellectual property etc especially when the consumer isn't a customer. Alas I decided I would call the manager of HK Wentworth back via the number he contacted me on and he surprisingly agreed to provide a written statement the item I received was indeed fake.Naturally this gave the seller nothing to contest and as such I received my refund. Immediately after which I purchased the legit product and decided I would help others identify and get their money returned in the advent they inadvertently purchase a knockoff Hakko Fa-400.So first a few simple and perhaps obvious ways.THE PRICEThe vast majority of knockoffs / counterfeit Hakko Fa-400 fume extractors on ebay sell for around $50 AUD where as retail the genuine item costs about $150 AUD. This should be your first indicator the item you are purchasing is not legit.EBAY!Most re-sellers of legitimate products have no need to use Ebay to sell their goods, people go looking for quality brands, as such quality brands have no need to use the third party selling tools like Ebay. As such be skeptical of ANY Hakko (or brand item for that matter) item sold on Ebay. Ebay has systems in place which protect the sellers of counterfeits which promotes the likelihood of fakes being sold on their site!THE QUALITYThe most obvious sign the item you received was not legit yet also the most subjective. For this reason I will include a bunch of side by side comparisons so that you yourself can compare.SERIAL NUMBERThe genuine Hakko item will have a serial number something like this.NO GROUNDING / EARTHINGA common theme among the counterfeits seems to be the lack of a grounding point, the Chinese knock off creators seem to have some odd obsession with not grounding items. Therefore if your Hakko fume extractor has no grounding it's likely a counterfeit.STRAIN RELEIFThe counterfeit has no real attempt to secure the mains cable to the housing. Meaning a drop off of your work bench whilst attached to thew mains could potentially leave you exposed to mains potential.NOT MEETING STANDARDSAny legitimate item sold in your country / region will be required to meet specific safety standards. Something which instantly struck me as obviously not Hakko quality was the lack of such refinement.THE FANNaturally one would expect a quality brand like Hakko to use quality components this is another obvious failure in the counterfeit item. The counterfeiters didn't bother to make an attempt to emulate the quality brand but rather made a counterfeit of an already dubious quality manufacturer...... Which begs the question if you are going to knock off a product, why make a knockoff of a dodgy one to start with?LACK OF VERY BASIC SAFETY PRECAUTIONSThe counterfeit item makes no attempt at safety whatsoever, no heatshirnk on the 240v connections dodgy components etc....DECALS ALIGNMENT / FALLING OFF / PEELINGThe decals on the counterfeit item were simply pealing off, lifting at the corners and were a very different color to the genuine article.So as you can see it's obvious when comparing the two items side by side which is genuine and which is the counterfeit. However given Ebays procedures which protect the counterfeit sellers it can be a bit of a challenge to get your money back.However I will offer a few suggestions.CONTACT THE BRANDThe very first thing you should do in the advent you purchase a suspected counterfeit Hakko item or any counterfeit for that matter is to contact the brand owner. If they are a legit company they will certainly like to know their brand is being damaged by the sale of counterfeit items. Express your concerns regarding the item and discover if the item is a counterfeit or perhaps just a lower quality item / reject etc. Some companies albeit not usually brand names sometimes sell seconds or rejects make sure this isn't the case before contacting the seller.CONTACT THE SELLERHowever slim there is a chance the seller may not even be aware they are selling counterfeit items, contact them and let them know your concerns.DO NOT SEND THE ITEM BACK!In the case of Australia it is against the law to post a counterfeit item using Australia post as can be seen below. Ignoring the legality of posting it back the seller is ripping people off and selling a potentially dangerous product. Returning the item to them so they can continue to sell it is absurd!https://shopmate.auspost.com.au/shopping-guide/shipping-restrictionsAlso Ebays policies state they do not expect you to return counterfeit items.http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.htmlKEEP RECORDSKeep record of any correspondence images and issues you discover during the request for a refund and share your experience, it may help to either dissuade the counterfeiters or at very least help prevent someone else from getting ripped off.SUPPORT THE LEGIT BRANDIf a company goes out of it's way to help you like Hakko did for me support their brand! Think about it if they are willing to help you when you are not a customer how will they treat you when you are one?So anyway I hope this helps at least one person from being ripped off and perhaps helps to raise awareness of the sale of dodgy counterfeits on Ebay. I'm thinking I may get a FX-888D in the near future and do a similar comparison however there does seem to be significant information already out there on the soldering irons.Cheers to everyone who has read this far into my scotch fueled rantRegards,Johann

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 01:58:30 pm
content: I don't mind clone items but I hate fake goods. If I see a fake item with Hakko brand I would purchase it and ask for a refund immediately after receiving and confirming it's a fake.Most if not all of the time the seller would give excuse that it is the "supplier" that provided them with fake goods. So I would blast them that they never check their goods before dispatch, they will ask for photos and etc. Leave them a negative feedback because they will quickly refund the money and close the transaction.This is their standard operating procedure selling fake goods. If you suspect fake item, leave negative feedback immediately before contacting the seller. If they do a refund you will not beable to leave feedback.Next you raise issue with eBay. I have receive all of my refund even after leaving negative feedback because it is easy to prove it's a fake item.Yes it's very nasty of me to do so but this will send a message to the "suppliers" that a fake item with Hakko brand won't sell.

author: Unordung
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 01:05:13 pm
content: Quote from: nukie on May 06, 2017, 01:58:30 pmPrecisely!Knowingly buying a knockoff is one thing. Being duped is a complete different story.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 02:58:25 pm
content: Spending $150, even $50 on a fan in a plastic box (which wouldn't need grounding anyway, so that is a moot point) is absurd.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 08:11:42 pm
content: Quote from: Unordung on May 06, 2017, 07:46:43 amThis seems to becoming an oft-repeated meme. It's not clear to me that such laws (present in other countries too) necessarily forbid returning bogus items. Without reading the law itself, I suspect it's essentially about the shipping of such items with the intent to defraud.Now I am not saying that oneshouldreturn the item, however I get tired of seeing vaguely-true things repeated endlessly on the internet. Also it seems like yet another excuse for fraudulent ebay buyers (a phenomenon which sadly is too common) to use.As an aside, it seems like the makers of cheap non-standards-compliant goods in China don't even understand what safety ground is, if bigclive's teardowns are any indication

author: Unordung
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2017, 07:04:38 am
content: Quote from: mmagin on May 07, 2017, 08:11:42 pmLast I looked Prohibited was defined as:prohibitedpr?(?)?h?b?t?d/adjectiveadjective: prohibitedthat has been forbidden; banned."they had deliberately fed prohibited material to their herd"Ie prohibited items can not be posted. That aside I went to the Australian border protection site and they too state it is illegal to import or export counterfeit goods with NO EXCEPTIONS.......http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Brin/Can-I-bring-it-back/Can-I-Bring-It-Back-Market-Goods-And-Shopping/Can-I-Bring-Fake-Designer-Goods-BackWhilst it pays to be a skeptic in this case your skepticism is misplaced. There may well be doggy buyers on Ebay however to exploit a seller in this case the seller must first be breaking the law and as such well deserving of being out of pocket!

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 08:39:25 am
content: Unfortunately, you can't expect a $150 item to be sold as something like $50. It's simply impossible for a professional seller to do that, considering that the 15% of the listing price goes to Ebay and Paypal. Maybe a non professional seller who want to get rid of the item in a short time it's understandable, but for a professional seller? No way... So you should be warned by the item's price...Be careful about dealing with the Govt... They never make discounts even for the victim!

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:02:01 am
content: Quote from: amyk on May 07, 2017, 02:58:25 pmIt's suppose to be ESD safe plastic, hence the grounded plug. The fakes are obviously not ESD safe. Regardless, even $50 is too much, fake or genuine. The same way the Hakko tip temperature testers are a ripoff. ?

author: XP1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 01:34:23 am
content: Just bought the Hakko FA-400 from Zoro Tools on eBay. Zoro is an online retailer. After I skipped the obvious $50 eBay listings shipped from China, Zoro was the cheapest.$72.33 + $4.34 tax = $76.67 - $7.23 (10% eBay Bucks) = $69.44According to the pics, it looks legit to me. Thanks, OP.

author: mySystemEngineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 09:43:32 am
content: The fan in your picture is the same brand of my cheap fume extractor that stinks, the post is here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/smoke-absorber-bad-smell-after-soldering/does your fake extractor also smells bad?by the way, i always compare the ebay item to amazon, because HAKKO sells directly their products on amazon.i know that the 220V version of the FA-400 is out of stock on amazon, it is Hakko FA400-09. the 110V version is Hakko FA400-04.so immediately knew that the ebay product is fake.some of the sellers put the pictures with "Hakko" on the product but no "Hakko" in the listing, which says it is fake.