Returning a device purchased from Chinese seller with eBay/paypal : need advice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ytterligare
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 07:57:14 pm
content: Got a 10Mhz reference distribution device from a seller in China, eBay : payed 100 Eur with Paypal.The device arrived partially working so I requested to return it, via "standard" eBay procedure.The seller replied a couple of days after via eBay message with his address, quite a complicated one, (although not in chinese )....now I am confused :1) The seller did spend 9 Eur to ship it to me, I will have to spend at least 4-5 times more for the return... any suggestion ?2) If I declare the value of the good, it might be that the seller have to pay for the custom fees, right ? how is it possible ? Should I declare 0 value because it is broken and I'm returning it ?3) I don't understand the way I'm supposed to be protected by Paypal : I have already spent 100 euros, then, I will pay another 50 for shipping back, then, if the seller is in a good mood, once received he will reimburse 100 Euros, leaving me with 50% of the expense not covered ? Shouldn't it be refunded first and then I should send it back, when using Paypal ?Need quick advices please...TnxA.

author: phlegeton
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 09:37:26 pm
content: 1) Sometimes the seller refunds the returning shipment. If unsure, just send a e-mail to the seller, explaining you have to pay extra shipping costs.2) That's the sellers problem, not yours. I never run into issues like this.3) In this case, it good be that the seller will send you a new one. In that case: solved. Or: the seller will give you a full refund. If however, none of this happens, and the seller doesn't response to your e-mail and questions, (after a a week for example) you can start a "dispute". Once you start that process, Ebay will look into it, and going to determine if you have receive a (full) refund, which is then handed over to Pay-pall.In the many years I've bought stuff on Ebay I had only a few times that I started a dispute, which all ended in a full refund.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 09:40:55 pm
content: File an item not described with eBay. They will force them to print out a return label and send it to you or refund. It’s usually the latter.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 10:01:19 pm
content: Follow the ebay procedure strictly. Do not be swayed by the seller words. I was guided away from ebay procedure, and even the words were recorded, neither the eBay nor PayPal care to read them, and I lost my money after sending the items back with no tracking. Good thing that happened after that was I was forced to learn to buy direct from Taobao.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2021, 02:11:58 am
content: same thing i had,,, follow ebay procedures, if the seller backfire, you'll be protectedAnd yes the communications where recorded in my case, the seller created some problems and ebay stepped in, got a full refund and kept the item, was over 100$ usd in value

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 02:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: all_repair on May 09, 2021, 10:01:19 pmThis! Always follow the Ebay procedure for 'item not as described'. Aliexpress is pretty good too. The past couple of months 1 item got lost in the mail and 1 parcel was missing an item. Didn't cost me a cent.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2021, 07:03:45 pm
content: QuoteNot in my experience. Ordered a Barlow lens, vendor sent a Barlow lens but with the wrong fitting. Resolution was to send it back at my cost for a refund. I'm out of pocket, costs vendor - who was the cause of the problem - nothing at all.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2021, 07:08:21 pm
content: Follow the eBay "Item not as described" procedure, there is no other rational choice here.It is important that you raise an "Item not as described" case - if you make any other kind of complaint, YOU pay the shipping.

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2021, 09:19:11 pm
content: Ask the seller if he expects to pay tax on import.If you import something you probably paid import duties or were exempted because of value.If he receives something he'll probably pay import duties or be exempted because of value.In theory, if you want to do things "by the book":To return something without him risking paying, you have to "un-import" the item, something that it's done at your local customs office, not the post office, which i expect to be real fun considering the amount of "will not ship to Italy" I see on eBay. The customs office is not a postal service, so after they receive your item, they will give it to an export agent, which you need to have arranged in advance.If the seller is supposed to send you a new item, and you did pay customs on the first one, expect to pay them again on the new one if you don't "un-import" the first.A similar question/reply:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/how-to-test-salvageable-xilinx-ultrascale-board-from-ebay/msg2929466/#msg2929466Best case scenario, you can wait a few months, and maybe end with half your money back, if paypal believes you.Sellers know that it's not worth for buyers to return the item.If you're buying a distribution amplifier, you must have a lab and some electronics knowledge, see if you can fix it, and ask for a partial refund instead.

author: ytterligare
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 10:20:16 pm
content: Thank you everybody for the suggestions and exchange of experiences, I just wanted to write a small update.I decided to ship back the device to the seller at my expense : DHL Italy to China, 41 Euros. I'm not familiar with shipping/returning items overseas, and the procedure was foggy to me, so I declared that the item was a broken eBay item returned to the seller, and specified eBay item and transaction number.At that point, I was the one deciding what the value of the item was, and since it was broken, to me it was worthing 5 USD.The box has arrived at the DHL Customer Service in Guangzhou, China in less than three days, and then the tracking stopped with :"Paperwork is required from the importer to continue with the clearance processing. A DHL representative shall attempt to contact the importer for the required paperwork. Customer should contact DHL Customer Service if not reached by DHL".Although I included the phone number the seller provided to me, useful to DHL to contact him, I decided to write twice to the seller, asking him to contact DHL, butin 5 days that the the box is "frozen" at the Customthe only reply I got was "we'll see".So after 5 days I decided to ask eBay to step in.Now, if I browse the object, it says : "The dispute is still ongoing, we will contact you".I think it useful for you people to know, is that since a "return" was ongoing at the time of shipping and the transaction was originally paid with Paypal, I asked the latter a refund, and after examining the request, they've sent me back 30 Euros, which is the maximum shipping expense refundable.Will keep you posted....for now, sorry if my english is inaccurate, but it is not my first languange, plus it is late and I'm tired...'73 de I3APRAndrea

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 10:28:02 pm
content: Don't ship it back to them at your expense, if you do that I guarantee you they will claim they never received it and by then it will be too late to go through the ebay process to get a refund. The sellers of sketchy goods have the system all worked out and they will tell you whatever they can to get you to delay the claim process until the deadline expires and then they will stop responding. File the item not as described claim now, go through the process and get a refund, then return the item if they will send you a shipping label. Otherwise you will be out your money, out your item, and out the money you spent shipping the item back to them.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 10:33:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 20, 2021, 10:28:02 pmIf there is a tracking, there is not such a problem.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 01:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on May 20, 2021, 10:33:56 pmIf the item is "not as described", you should not send it back at your expense - you should print off a return label from eBay, which is paid by the seller.That way, you wash your hands of the problem completely, instead of spending time and worry on it.Whether the seller is "good" or "bad" doesn't matter... The good sellers won't care that you do this, and the bad sellers won't be able to perform any stunts...

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 01:47:16 pm
content: Experienced eBay seller here.As advised by others here, the seller should send you a label to return the item. This is part of eBay's return terms.Granted we will always try and get you to pay for it as 99% of the time you are not aware of this fact..Most of the time, they will just fully refund you as the cost of the postage back is not worth it unless if they have a local return warehouse.These local return warehouses are run by a 3rd party and will either resell the product to recover costs for the seller or hold the item for the seller for posting back out to a new buyer, again to recover as much cost as possible.Typically this is a loss either way for the seller but if they can recover 20-50% they will do this which is why local return warehouses are popping up everywhere.If you ever see ads on FaceBook for "unopened" or "returned" post, this is them trying to recover costs. And is actually quite profitable for these 3rd parties.Where were we?As for the cost of postage. The Chinese post services are heavily subsidised by the Chinese government to promote selling goods from China and to disrupt local sellers/shops.This is why you can buy stuff like a bag of components for $1 and have it arrive at your door 30-45 days later but a UK seller selling it for $5 with economy post takes 7-10 days.If you are not in a rush, who you going to buy from...Sadly the last mile cost is typically down to your local post service so here in the UK the Royal Mail covers the last mile. Which makes our national and international prices higher.*As you already sent back the item, good luck recovering that.*Citation needed.Forgot to add, if the items arrive damaged, typically we will also go through the insurance processes to recover the cost of the item and postage. If eBay refunds 100% of the claim, we get back like 90% of the price of the item and shipping.Unless if it is a courier, China post offers no insurance as there is bugger all tracking. So they don't get this option. The 90% refund thing is quite common and usually will go through with lost cost items on eBay and Aliexpress as the time and money to go through the refund processes is not worth it on anything under $40-100.These rules on eBay are great BUT, and a big BUT, they are abused so much.We typically get the following once or twice a month at least.- "I want a refund and to keep the as the item has arrived damaged". After requesting pictures they typically don't go through with the claim.- "I no longer want the item". We tell them we don't offer refunds for anything other than lost or broken on arrival items. Claim quickly comes through saying "item damaged or not working". eBay system is automated and will just accept this as fact. We quickly get in touch with a rep (hard to get one) and they reverse the claim.- "This item is not as described, the photos are misleading and the item is way bigger/smaller than it looks in the photo". We include size measurements in the listing and it is clear as day that the buyer is dumb af. We cunter the claim but eBay system will automatically grant them the refund. Again eBay rep has to get involved in things like this.At least 1 person a month is clearly abusing the system to get a free item. As in they want to keep the item but also get a refund.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 01:53:38 pm
content: I agree @Jackster, I don't see how OP will be able to recover his shipping costs.Basically you have to understand and follow the eBay process to the letter, or you lose out.The process is very simple:1) Raise an "Item not as described" case. Don't raise any other kind of case.2) Print out the return shipping label (if seller provides one), or just accept the refund if seller doesn't provide one.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 02:02:48 pm
content: What I do when the item arrives broken, fake or different from discription is to contact the seller and explain the situation.Also, I offer to the seller to just pay me a partial refund, according to how big the issue is, against a good review.The last problem was with AliExpress, where I received a fake product. I asked for 90% refund and got it. I know that others having the same issue got 100% refund.With broken items, I have received up to 100% refund. I never have shipped anything back.Just complain: "DOA - Dead on Arrival, want 100% refund and am not willing to ship back, unless seller have the item picked up at his expense". If the seller does not agree, open an eBay/Paypal dispute.It makes no sense to have to pay for shipping of a DOA item.And I never had a problem in getting my money back.And as a last resort, start by giving a bad review with lowest score possible. You will be contacted to solve the problem.Good luck!Regards,Vitor

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 06:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on May 20, 2021, 10:33:56 pmDon't be so sure. They can claim you sent them back an empty box, or a box with something else in it, or they can refuse delivery so that it gets delayed beyond the refund period, and even if they do get it back, they will never refund what you spent on the shipping.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 06:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 21, 2021, 06:08:37 pmWhat is the difference with the eBay return service? When the seller asks eBay to print a label to let a customer to return something, then they will probably send a carrier to pickup the parcel, which can be empty or different from what you are supposed to return, nobody will for sure control the contents.So what's the point here?I have always returned my goods with a UPS private service and informed eBay about the tracking, and eBay (but also Paypal) has always sent me a full refund as soon as they have seen the parcel notified as "delivered back to the seller".

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 07:15:28 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on May 21, 2021, 02:02:48 pmWith DOA, is there any chance to have a partial refund? Suppose you ordered four boards, 2 are DOA, 2 are OK, so you only want to return the dead ones.Is it possible, on eBay? Paypal? If so, how?

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 07:32:35 pm
content: If 2 out of 2 are broken, I would claim 50% refund and not send anything back.Of course it is necessary to send pictures or a video demonstrating the fault.

author: ytterligare
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 08:17:45 pm
content: :bullshit:Well...I knew this topic was hotAnyway, it might be a coincidence, but after yesterday eve I finally raised a dispute with the seller through eBay, this morning I woke up with a message from eBay saying I've got full refund from him : case closed.I say it again : if you payed the item with Paypal, you're eligible forup to 12 shipping refund of 30 Euro each every year, as per Paypal policy...you just have to subscribe to the return program for free.ciaoAndreaP.S. : according to DHL, the item is still "frozen" at the chinese custom, waiting for paperwork from the seller : I don't know what happened but maybe eBay got some leverage of any kind on the seller...

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2021, 11:21:00 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on May 21, 2021, 02:02:48 pmDo you also do this for items you purchase in physical shops?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2021, 11:51:54 pm
content: QuoteThe law (here) is different for online and offline stuff, because you cannot inspect stuff you buy online without first buying it and having it delivered. So the answer to your question should be "No, because you can inspect it before you take it away." However, if you're buying new then often you can't inspect it because it's in a sealed package, and if that turns out to be DOA when you get it home then you're within your rights to return it. So the real answer to your question is "If it's faulty, sure."