Looking for framed stencil printer  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 12:16:21 am
content: Hi,I am looking for a quality stencil printer for framed stencils, manual type.I would like to know if anyone would recommend one, and where to buy it?Currently I have been thinking of this one as a potential candidate:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Precision-Solder-Printer-3040-Solder-Paste-Printer-Manual-Stencil-Printer-Best-Quality-Recommend/32654497618.htmlHC

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 01:40:04 pm
content: It's more expensive but the last time I did research this, I found this one:http://be.eurocircuits.com/shop/offtheshelf/product.aspx?ad=13777&ano=ec-stencil-mate&an=ec-stencil-mateAs you already know from our off-site conversation - I really like having the pivot off axis as I've found the separation of frame and PCB after the print much better that way.EDIT: I saw the one you linked also has the pivot slightly off axis.EDIT2: Just realized you're asking for a framed stencil printer... That eurocircuits one does not fit the bill then...

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 01:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on February 11, 2017, 01:40:04 pmCould you please elaborate on this? What do you mean by "off-axis"? Being higher than the stencil plane?

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 01:50:19 pm
content: Quote from: ar__systems on February 11, 2017, 01:42:59 pmYes, higher than the stencil plane.I've found that if the stencil lifts off at one side before the other it tends to blur out the print that gets separation last. If the pivot is sufficiently off axis then you get separation on the entire PCB when you lift the frame away.I can add that my test conditions were poor, and I've maybe reached the wrong conclusion - but the results I got were consistently worse with on axis pivot. The two jigs were both self made, the solder paste was a bit too hot/liquid and I'm not very experienced with pastes. Still, I'd say the difference for me was big enough to make it a requirement if I out grow my current DIY solutions.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 02:54:23 pm
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on February 11, 2017, 01:50:19 pmSorry, this does not make sense. The side that is closer to the pivot axis always lifts up slower, no matter what's the vertical position of the axis is.But far more importantly, when your axis is higher, the stencil MOVES LATERALLY (away from the pivot) at the separation moment, and any small pitch apertures that run parallel to the pivot axis and sufficiently close to it don't separate from the paste at all.So for the best result you need to have pivot point exactly on the same level with stencil plane.

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 03:06:10 pm
content: I was just as surprised as you.Remember though, the axis is quite a distance away from the print. It will only move 'forward' as much as the radius allows, which for my jig and those I've seen online seems to be long enough so you're really only left with the fact it's going up. Maybe the fault in my tests were that the radius was too short in my on-axis jig.I guess a strictly vertical movement would be the best way to go though? Those printers seem overly expensive to me though, saw a few at Electronica.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 04:24:14 pm
content: what was the smallest part that you printed? I guess you can get away with just any setup if you only do 0603 and SO-8 and biggerStrictly vertical movement would obviously be the best.

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 05:02:18 pm
content: It was a board with several 0402, a couple of QFNs.This one:which is incidentally designed by the OP!Do you have a stencil printer ar__systems?I'd be curious to see what people do.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 05:13:55 pm
content: I have a simple printer similar to the one in the link. I suppose you are right, if your print area is far from the pivot, you are reducing effect of lateral movement and get closer to vertical separation.I did not notice the effect until I had to print longer boards where some parts were relatively close to the frame.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 07:39:38 am
content: Quote from: hcglitte on February 11, 2017, 12:16:21 amIt looks very close to the one I got, similar to this one:http://pinquity.net/6256-watch-here/613404411717204680/The base and mechanics look the same. The base material is simply too thin and deforms easily. Finepitch is quite difficult to do.@alexanderbrevig's link has a nice printer. That one with a Chinese price would be nice. I scan sometimes Chinese websites for good design "". This one does not look too bad:https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=527384433317- but again the base seems to be thin folded sheet metal.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 11:37:21 pm
content: Anyone here has a suggestion for a good China stencil printer that can do fine pitch?

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 11:44:19 pm
content: What is fine print for you?Any printer should be able to do it as long as it succeeds on its job, which has more to do with registration than anything else.After that is up to you, your apertures, your squeegee and your paste.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:06:55 am
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on June 14, 2017, 11:44:19 pmNothing too advanced to me, just some TQFP.Problem is that my current one is simply too shaky due to weak structure so it's easy to misprint. With very minor pressure I can move the screen 3-4mm left/right.Mhm, but I could set a steel in the base where I place the PCB pin, and drill a matching hole in the alu frame. Then the stencil has no left/right movement.PS: your link is something that appears only in my dreams ;-)

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 07:45:32 am
content: I bought one of these:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/High-Precision-Manual-Pcb-Screen-Press-Precise-Stencil-Solder-Printing-Machine-Z-/282465406352?hash=item41c4400d90As I do mostly double sided smd, I wanted something that held the board up off the bed.I think the build quality is quite good, though it did need a bit of tweaking and it would be nice if there was less backlash in the alignment knobs, but once it is set and locked, it seems quite repeatable, though I have not used it much as yet.If you did get one, ask them for a second circuit board mounting kit, as it is handy to have the extra pcb supports.And then get your panels and stencils with mounting/alignment holes on the boarders for really easy set up.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 08:23:15 am
content: I saw this one online:https://detail.1688.com/offer/542217296586.html(about US$250) but they have no sample that I can check. They are not too far away for me ;-) And they have some delivery time.I will modify mine now to control the left/right movement of the alu frame. In the medium term I would probably just build one. Those models IMHO have design flaws, they are not designed for PCB use, hence you can adjust the height - I don't need that! It adds too many parts that decrease stability.I would align the U-part were you fix the frame with the PCB table - and then simply put a piece of laminate under the frame to compensate the PCB thickness.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 08:47:31 am
content: I bought one of these, it works pretty well, its not perfect..https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-PUHUI-High-Precision-Printer-Manual-Stencil-Printer-machine-Silk-Printing-Machine/32568881109.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.0z8PES

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 09:29:22 am
content: Little update: I bout the one that I posted 2 messages above. Not from that seller though, they had no stock and I really wanted to see one be buying it. So I found the same from another seller that had one in stock and went to Shajing, near Shenzhen.Long story short, I brought my stencil and a PCB to fix it, I wanted to try how stable it is - and it's good enough. Very little left/right movement.Can recommend it for a manual hand model.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:16:10 am
content: Can you give me the link of the seller where you got it from.I'm in need of one now I have my own pick and place. I use a fixture now like stencil8 that i got custommilled in Shenzhen. But this seems so more convenient to work with.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 06:27:54 am
content: Quote from: Spikee on July 02, 2017, 03:16:10 amWho? Me?I bought mine here:https://detail.1688.com/offer/1229805838.htmlIt's more or less walking distance from the Shajing Subway station. However, that place wasn't really an office and in a total mess. As most 1688 'companies' it's just a single person (lady in this case) venture. Anyway, she had one printer only - and that's mine now. No idea if she can get another one. And btw, no English.In case you like or need to search more the terms are: *** (sorry, had to remove, forum can't handle Chinese, see pix)Anyway, printer design is OK. Quite stable. If she can't help. look for a similar design.In case you prefer those cheap RMB 100 ones - I have one of those and let it go for RMB 50 if you pick it up in Hong Kong (NT) ;-)

author: Prohiottoka
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 06:01:41 am
content: Any suggestions for an automatic or semi automatic printer? There are several good Chinese pnp machines below 10k USD... are there any good printer also?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 12:44:17 pm
content: Torch make some good machines. I'm quite impressed with mine. It was about $2500

author: Prohiottoka
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 01:28:22 pm
content: can you tell me which one do you have?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 01:45:56 pm
content: http://www.torchsmt.com/Bench-top-high-accuracy-semiautomatic-printing-machine-T1100-pd82462.html

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 05:08:43 pm
content: I got mine in, quite hefty and sturdy, Once tighten up (some bolts were not tight) there seems to be very little play.will do a test tomorrow when my stencils and boards come in. This one was around 1880 RMB.I only had a quick look at it. Not fully sure how you actually hold the pcb with the provided tools / standoffsHopefully my stencil pains are gone!

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 06:58:51 pm
content: keep it away from the glass table

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 04:50:56 am
content: It is directly on top of the support of the table.And it is actually not that heavy. It will be alright

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 09:26:19 pm
content: It seems there have been several different printers that people have bought in this thread. Now that it's been several days to several weeks since you folks have gotten your printers, do you have any additional comments on how happy you are with them? Would you buy the same one again? Is there anything you specifically dislike about your unit or that you would recommend looking out for when purchasing one?I have a full machine shop here at work so I have the ability and willingness to modify anything I buy, but I would rather buy something that works well right out of the box, if possible, without having to mess around with it.I am in the USA - I have no problem buying on Aliexpress, eBay, Amazon, etc... just seems there are so many options and they are all roughly similar. Lots of people mention flimsy bases. That's something I think I can solve - would be easy to machine/add a nice thick plate of aluminum as a base. I'm more worried about accurate holding and positioning of the stencil and PCB and overall functionality/operation of the machine itself.I have about 10 panelized PCB's that I would be using this for and usually print 2-3 per day. So it wouldn't be an all-day/every-day thing but it would get regular use.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 12:43:05 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on August 02, 2017, 09:26:19 pmIf budget is limited, yes. If not, I rather go for an automatic one with vision.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 12:51:20 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on August 02, 2017, 09:26:19 pmIt's not just the base. This last one (in the pic with glass table) actually looks much better. Mine with blue base is very crappy. Adjustment is very difficult, both height and position. The pivot thing that connects the frame to the vertical bars has too much play in it.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 01:39:12 am
content: Adjustment is a little bit fiddly for the first time that I used it. But it is consistent from pcb to pcb.One thing I really noticed is how crooked framed solder stencils are. It has some small dents in the alu / metal here and there.But other than that is is pretty solid. I do not think this model is available on aliexpress etc

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 01:44:47 am
content: Spikee, do you know if there is an English version of the 1688 site? Or could you get hold of the email of the seller?

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 05:38:36 am
content: I bought it on taoboa (also owns 1688). There are plenty of taoboa agents online that can buy and reship it for you.(local) DHL is 20 USD with about 4 USD per 0.5kg above the default 0.5kghttps://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.1f30a53f0LalGZ&id=546293368354&_u=32nhgfl7482b

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 01:19:10 am
content: Quote from: hcglitte on August 03, 2017, 01:44:47 amThere is no English 1688/Taobao, but their websites translate well with Google. You can buy on Taobao with credit card if you are overseas. But note that many, many sellers will not export, so it's better to find a consolidator - or what Spikee mentioned, one of the many Taobao agents. There are plenty of those.1688 is more of a business platform to make contact, you usually can't straight buy products there. You need to ask, negotiate, etc. - at this point be aware that 98% do not know English.BTW, people in China rarely use email on those platforms. It's usually AliWangWang (a chat client) or WeChat/QQ.There are a million pages out their that give some hints on Taobao shopping, so I just post here 2 official Taobao links in English, they have internal logistics to a few countries (SG, MY, HK):https://sea.taobao.com/howtobuyhttps://world.taobao.com/markets/all/15s11/logistics?wh_area=singaporeJust saw there is also USA, AU, CA >https://world.taobao.com/markets/all/logistics-mjax_cn

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2017, 09:37:06 am
content: Thanks for the tips. I use google with translate option. I tried to click the chat icon and then I installed some SW. I chat SW was impossible to understand - I guess I will have to try one of the agent sites.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2017, 02:04:39 pm
content: Quote from: hcglitte on August 05, 2017, 09:37:06 amFor chat Taobao/1688 uses AliWangWang as client. Now that has an English version and is called (Aliobaba) TradeManager.But note that most sellers do not know English. For success, be prepared to use some Chinese. There is no shortcut here.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2017, 04:04:10 am
content: Just pay the few percent to the taoboa agent and have no hassle.Take the easy way.

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 07:59:08 am
content: I found this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/high-precious-TK3245-double-side-SMT-PCB-stencil-printer/32827005614.htmlit looks almost identical to the one from taobao.I am also a bit curious about this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Precision-Screen-Stencil-Printer-YX3040-Pick-and-Place-Robot-Machine-Solder-Paste-Printer-SMT-Mounter/1000001303351.htmlIt looks like the last one has a bit thin aluminum where you attach the framed stencil though.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 12:45:35 pm
content: Quote from: hcglitte on August 26, 2017, 07:59:08 amI've got one like that. Mine is branded Hanail HN3040B. The stencil clamp is made from folded steel, so it isn't thick like that other Aluminium one. Overall it is a very well built & solid unit, with a lot of adjustments. I acquired it second hand (along with a TM240A) a few months ago from a friend, so I didnt' have to deal with expensive shipping. But since then I've been very busy with consulting & programming work so I haven't used it yet.

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 11:46:43 am
content: Thanks for the info! I also found both printers here:http://www.smtmax.com/category.php?id=2There is quite a big price step between the two...

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 12:05:15 pm
content: I ordered the TK3245 today. Will let you know my experience after testing it.There are many different sized diameter position support pins that is included, as well as a squeegee and 20 normal support pins.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 05:49:48 pm
content: Quote from: Spikee on August 01, 2017, 05:08:43 pmSpikee,How do you like your stencil printer now that you've had it a while?I bought the one hgclittle linked to in his post above, the first one, which looks almost the same as yours. It hasn't arrived yet but it should be here soon. I would like to hear your comments and thoughts on the good and bad sides of your printer, if you're willing to share.I noticed that this printer seems to be rare compared to the other style (second link in hctlitte's post). The second one seems to be available just about everywhere. But the one I got seems higher precision and I liked the stencil frame holder setup better. The only places I found it are the aliexpress link and SMTmax. I bought from Aliexpress - seller has zero feedback and no shipment yet after 4 days so I hope I get it!

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 07:39:31 pm
content: Something to look for, ( which this printer has ) is that it has quite fine pitch for the stand offs. this is really handy. the standoffs when you go to do double sided can be a real tricky problem as you have to work around parts.. more holes is great.

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 10:13:10 pm
content: I received mine a while ago, and yes you have to secure all the screws and bolts etc.The 20 standoffs I received were slightly too short, but the seller shipped me new ones.I did not like how the 2*X + 1*Y fine alignment adjustment screws were implemented.When you adjust in one direction, and then screw the opposite way, you must screw many degrees before the plate startsmoving in the other direction. It's clear why this happens when you tear it down to see the inner workings.It's not a problem, only takes some time to do adjustments.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 07:05:10 am
content: Quote from: hcglitte on October 19, 2017, 10:13:10 pmJust to be clear, you bought this one?https://www.aliexpress.com/item/high-precious-TK3245-double-side-SMT-PCB-stencil-printer/32827005614.htmlAnd you mention not liking the mechanism... do you mean that after you adjusted everything, it operates satisfactorily? I am not sure how it works internally but I assume the two X adjustments are just loosely connected to the table, so that adjusting one and not the other provides the rotational adjustment due to there being so much looseness. I was thinking of building my own but the rotational adjustment was the part that seemed tricky to do inexpensively, precisely and with a nice feel.

author: hcglitte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 08:12:33 am
content: Correct, that's the one.Yes, when adjusted, you secure the plate with two more vertical knobs from beneath the plate and it is steady.Yes, the two X knobs provides the rotation.I also have a technoprint printer, and the two X adjustments are much better engineered. But I don't like it for other reasons.They solved the problem with adding a spring which provides tension in the opposite direction (the moving plate is always pulled in one direction).I attached a sketch according to my memory. You can see the gaps. When you start turning the knob in the opposite direction, the blue circular end tap (which fitted on the screw end), has to move "all the way" through the gap and then finally touch the plate before it finally can press against the plate and move it.So, imagine you aligned it too much to the left, then you must turn the knob in the opposite direction "a lot" to fill the gap before the plate actually moves to the right...

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 08:28:37 am
content: On my 3040 printer, one thing that I have noticed is that you get a fair bit of flex left to right and this made printing fine pitch consistently near impossible.I ended up drilling a couple of holes in my stencil border and have some pieces of aluminium that I clamp(bolt and wing-nut) in place to locate and hold the stencil in place once everything is aligned.Works like a treat now

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 05:16:12 pm
content: Unfortunately, many of the links in this thread are now dead, so it is often impossible to assign the different statements to specific printers.I want to use the 11.11. sale and buy a stencil printer for prototypes and small series. However, it should remain in my budget but should not be too cheap. At the end there are two types left: Puhui and the type 3040.Has anyone ever compared both? Or does someone own one of the two types and can name the advantages and disadvantages of his printer? Perhaps even with a look at the pictures of other type you can see where it might be better or worse than yours?I am attaching two links for reference and to show the ones I mean:3040:https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000072660332.htmlPuhui:https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000054251379.htmland, as these links might be dead in a few months I am adding also two pictures for helping future readers.Any help would be highly appreciated.Thankx!