Art of Electronics 3rd ed. Horowitz and Hill - any news? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: idris
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2010, 02:59:53 pm
content: Every couple years there's another set of rumours about the impending 3rd edition release date -- I feel stupid for even bringing it up. In any case, various ISBN databases and online bookstores have the 3rd edition slated for June 30, 2010. The most recent estimates I've seen are late 2010/early 2011. Does anybody know if there's any stock in this, or have any idea?http://isbn.nu/9780521809269http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?detail=aboutProduct&sku=0521809266&id=52288607#aboutProduct

author: Waifian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2010, 03:12:30 pm
content: According to other posts in the form this is a false listing. It is actually the ed. that we all know and love.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 01:31:41 am
content: I got a reply directly from Win Hill:"Early next year we hope. It's guarenteedto have at least a few things you've never seen!"Dave.

author: Valhallasmith
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 03:10:43 am
content: I'm pretty sure H&H are just trolling us at this point.

author: allanw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 03:25:29 am
content: Maybe once we get those flying cars...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 03:26:21 am
content: Quote from: Valhallasmith on July 06, 2010, 03:10:43 amI don't think so, it just takes a shit load of time to write such a book.Dave.

author: Valhallasmith
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 06:30:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 06, 2010, 03:26:21 am2nd edition was released in 89 and they have been saying "next year" for the last 5. Microsoft has gone from Windows 3.0 to Windows 7. Integration has gone from millions of transistors to tens of billions. 4 presidents have taken office in the US. Nations have risen from ash and crumbled to dust. In that time I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate.But yea, hope it does come out sometime next year.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 06:38:52 am
content: Win asked for some material from me once for the next edition, and that was maybe 4 years back now!They might be caught in the never ending spiral of "I'll just add this"I do sense that it's much closer now than it ever was, and he's being a bit more specific about what will be in it.But anyway, that's the latest date from the horses mouth, we'll have to wait and see!Dave.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 08:18:55 am
content: Quote from: Valhallasmith on July 06, 2010, 06:30:32 amIn 1989 the Chinese were just starting to make cheap electronics, now they dominate.Anyway, I've got the second edition both in PDF and the real thing. It's a good book and lots of the content is still valid today. I'm cynical about the next edition, I don't think much will change, maybe a section on mictrocontrollers and an update to the existing sections to include more modern components, so would it be worth me buying considering I alread have the second edition?When it comes out, I'll look at the Google preview and maybe download it off some warez site, then if it's good and is significantly different from the second edition, I'll buy it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 08:28:13 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on July 06, 2010, 08:18:55 am

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 08:30:19 am
content: So in order to get the maximum benefit one must have both the second and third edition - nice way to keep sales for the old book going.According to Cambridge it'll be released in December 2011.http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521809269

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 11:58:34 am
content: This is good news, but I reserve final comment to when I actually see it.I read both the 1st and 2nd editions, and the 2nd was better, no so much in writing style but it did have more content, hundreds of pages more.After listening to the MIT courseware on EE 101, the basics haven't changed in 20 years, although those videos were recorded in early 2000s.Whatever happened to Paul Horowitz? We hear a lot about Hill but not the first author.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2010, 12:04:53 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on July 06, 2010, 11:58:34 amPaul has never participated in electronics forums and essentially has nothing to do with the electronics industry, he's primarily a physicist, that's why you don't hear of him.He spends his time looking for ET which is pretty cool!Dave.

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2010, 02:42:09 pm
content: The second link in the first message is now showing this date: October 30, 2010.Does anyone have any updates?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2010, 10:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: migsantiago on August 05, 2010, 02:42:09 pmText is for the 2nd edition, so probably just another reprint.Dave.

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 02:42:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2010, 10:14:56 pmSigh... ok, I'll continue waiting for the third one.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 05:52:06 am
content: Well I've ordered the second edition as it is long overdue that I have the rral book as reading the PDF is never going to happen, from what I heard a while ago the 3rd edition was to be a supplementry anyhow ? so you will need the 2nd edition

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 01:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 06, 2010, 05:52:06 amHello!I don't know if I can afford both editions. I'll have to wait for the third one and see if it actually requires the 2nd one to be complete.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 06:19:32 pm
content: I'd recommend downloading or seeing a Google preview before buying - I certainly will.I like to have PDF copies for books I own because it can be useful whist I'm at my PC and I can always copy bits to paste into forum posts/attachments.

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 06:44:15 pm
content: Yeah, I found a pdf copy of the book. The 2nd edition is very old and I'm not buying it unless the third edition requires it.I always prefer printed stuff since it's easier to change pages and compare stuff than shifting pages on the pdf reader.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 07:23:01 pm
content: If you have a large monitor or two smaller monitors, reading on-screen books becomes easier than on paper, especially if the PDF is OCR'd and indexed well, you can search and view more than one page at a time which can't be done with a paper book.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 07:55:17 pm
content: How do you do that ? I have two screens but the viewer will appear in one only, unless I open the same file in two instances of the viewer ?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2010, 11:16:43 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 06, 2010, 07:55:17 pmThat's exactly what I do, except Adobe won't allow two instances of the same file, so I open one up in a web browser which works fine.

author: marianoapp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 01:46:56 am
content: or you can open acrobat reader with the "/n" modifier and have as many instances a you wantBTW, do your pdfs of the Art of Electronics have chapter 1? I was only able to find a version that starts from chapter 2. Anyway i got chapter 1 as a separated file, but its scanned instead of being OCR'ed

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 08:23:03 am
content: Thanks, that's a good tip, I'll change the Windows Explorer settings so it's the default behaviour, providing it'll allow a file name on the command line as well.By the way, please attach rather than using imageshack which is a pain, click on additional options, choose, select the file you want and click open.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 08:41:54 am
content: I use foxitreader

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 10:05:05 am
content: Is it really better than Adobe?I know Adobe uses lots of memory but you've got loads of RAM so that shouldn't matter.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 12:18:11 pm
content: yea the adobe installation is like 10 tiome the disk space and has to prelaunch stuff when you start the computer slowing down bootup, basically I find it intrusive, I use it at work on a low spec PC and it has the functionality that adobe does not to send the PDF as an email which is very handy as I have to print reject reports as a PDF and email them so I can do it without going to the email program and attaching the file I just email it directly.I think adobe are going M$ style, too intrusive, bloated software and generally worthy of the M$ treatment (avoid at all costs) The only thing I cheer them for is photoshop although if I tried hard enough I could probably find another program free to do the same

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 01:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 07, 2010, 12:18:11 pmThat can be disabled using autoruns which can be download from the MS website.The most annoying thing is the updater which also gets bundled with flash player so you probably have it, even if you don't use Acrobat.QuoteNever tried Foxit but i've had problems with other PDF readers when trying to read some files, especially those with interactive contact like forms or 3D models.QuoteEver tried GIMP?Incidentally have you tried Inkscape, it's apparently is a good rival for Illustrator? Although I've only used Inkscape so wouldn't know.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 02:13:38 pm
content: Quote from: marianoapp on August 07, 2010, 01:46:56 amGrr, I've tried editing the folder options file types tab but it keeps changing back. I think there must be a program running somewhere which is doing this, I've disabled all Adobe autoruns. I'll try starting in safe mode to see if it happens then.

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 02:29:29 pm
content: I also use Foxit Reader. The greatest PDF reader out there.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 03:40:23 pm
content: As long as you don't do anything important like pre-press with it. Last time I checked, the font rendering sucked and the vector graphics were inaccurate, so if you'd zoom in, the lines appeared to have a gap, although they were aligned perfectly in Adobe Reader and InDesign. Same with color rendering. I also doubt that it supports advanced features like forms and notes properly. I don't think it's a great PDF reader, but it's adequate for just reading simple documents, and it's fairly light-weight.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 05:56:00 pm
content: well thats all I use it for really, I don't mind having both installed but I just cannot stand adobes aggressive presence on my system, I don't want stuff loading I didn't ask for when I start my PC.You have to watch foxit when printing, i printed the entire rigol scope manual at 2 pages per sheet to save the papaer only to find it put the pages back to front so I have the read page 1 on the right hand side and page 2 on the left. otherwise it handle documents fine

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 06:36:54 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 07, 2010, 05:56:00 pmMaybe the printing job failed because the rigol manual was created by a chinese pdf software. Foxit sometimes asks for permission to install chinese font tables and stuff like that.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2010, 07:04:28 pm
content: no, it has done it on other stuff, it is a good reader but a shit everything else

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2010, 08:16:15 am
content: Quote from: Simon on August 07, 2010, 05:56:00 pmWhy not print double sided?If your printer doesn't have a duplexer then get it to print the odd and even page numbers separately; I know Adobe can does this, can Foxit?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2010, 08:31:59 am
content: For printing large amounts, I would definitely do double-sided, and preferable also two pages per side (2-up). If the real thing is easily available as a real book and the cost is not too high, I wouldn't print it myself. Too much hassle, and the end result is lower quality.Last time I checked, you couldn't easily do 2-up printing and print even/odd pages separately at the same time (you don't want pages 1 and 3 on the same sheet) without an intermediate step. I've used the even/odd trick, one issue is that your printer takes in two pages at the same time once in a while. This will screw up all the pages after that. I tend to print in batches for this reason.

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2010, 07:59:12 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 08, 2010, 08:16:15 amYeah, it has that option as well.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2010, 08:11:14 pm
content: Quote from: migsantiago on August 08, 2010, 07:59:12 pmand hope the printer does not misfeed or you have screwed it all

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2010, 09:20:13 pm
content: That's why you should check it's printed properly before reloading the paper for printing on the other side and do the book in several batches.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2010, 06:46:08 am
content: yes but say it takes two sheets at a time it will muck up the order

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2010, 08:32:21 am
content: I'm not with you.If you check, after printing say 20 pages on one side and there's a sheet missing or they're in the wrong order, you can rearrange them or print a missing sheet, if it happens when you're printing on the other side, then it's hard luck but you've only wasted 20 pages at most. If the book is 120 pages long, you still save paper unless your printer messes up on the first page at the start of printing on the other side of each 20 page batch, which is both unlikely and if you're printer is that bad, you need a new one.