Energizer Ultimate Lithium Battery in Fluke 87 V? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 04:21:03 pm
content: I have a couple of Fluke 87 V DMMs and am concerned about battery leakage. These 87 Vs currently have alkaline 9v batteries installed, but based on the number of alkaline batteries (mostly AA and AAA) that I've had leak in other equipment recently, I'd like to replace them with something less likely to leak.As anyone tried Energizer Ultimate Lithium 9v's in the 87 V? Is it a suitable replacement for alkaline in these meters?

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 04:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on July 17, 2020, 04:21:03 pm9V battery do not leak nearly as often as AA/AAA batteries, because they have two layers of enclosure. The 1.5V cells inside the battery and the 9V cell.I opened a lot of 9V batteries here:https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VAlkaline%20UK.htmlSome of them had leaked inside the 9V battery, but not outside.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 04:41:20 pm
content: Quote from: HKJ on July 17, 2020, 04:34:36 pmPlus: 9V battery clips are very easy to replace if they ever do, unlike AA battery compartment terminals which are usually custom made pieces of metal.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 09:36:54 pm
content: In answer to your question, yes I run the lithium Energizer in my Fluke with no problems.Energizer/Duracell 9V batteries can be a problem, I have had them leak, not as badly as AA/AAA types but the problem is that they leak through the terminals.I have seen cases where, over time, this travels by chemistry or capillary action into the connector, down the wires and onto the PCB.Believe me - electrolyte chemistry attacks on meter PCBs is what you don't want.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 10:23:07 pm
content: Quote from: aargee on July 17, 2020, 09:36:54 pmThanks. One of my two meters is used infrequently and that's the one I fear damage from leaking batteries the most.Duracell is just crap these days. I have several packages of AA and AAA that are less than a year old yet several of the batteries in the unopened package are already leaking. I don't remember this happening years ago, so it appears that the Duracell bean counters mandated cost reductions that impacted the quality of the product.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 04:16:56 am
content: My 87V with 9v alkaline ...->YARA2

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 04:59:47 am
content: I use a NiMH "9V" batter in mine, it works fine, lasts months, best part is I don't worry about using the backlight as much as I want since I can just recharge it.Alkaline works fine too though, it's very rare for 9V batteries to leak due to the extra casing, I don't recall ever having something damaged by one, even the nearly 30 year old Radio Shack battery I found that had gotten rusty around the bottom end didn't damage the scanner it was in.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 06:02:14 am
content: I use that 9V lithium in all my handhelds meters that take 9V (and rechargeable in anything else). Alkalines always present extra risk imho. I've had too many things destroyed over my lifetime to trust alkaline batteries in anything I really care about.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 06:12:31 am
content: 9V alkaline leak through the button connectors, and flow to the motherboard through the wire.Recently I have upgraded from NiMH 9V to rechargeable 9V Li. Those that need 2S to charge seem to have less leakage and able to run longer. They have saved me quite a bit money, I am using them for all digital door knobs which eat batteries quite fast.

author: Corner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 08:52:37 am
content: I use this exact 9V Lithium battery in all my non-crap meters. Never had any problem.

author: med6753
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 11:43:03 am
content: Another endorsement. I've used 9V lithium in my 87 for the past few years with no issues.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 12:01:32 pm
content: I wasn't saying not to use them just that I don't think there's anywhere near the same level of worry as with AAs.ie. No need to panic, you can wait for the existing one to die before replacing it with a Lithium.

author: Marco1971
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 01:02:53 pm
content: Using Energizer Lithium Ultimate 9 Volt in Fluke 79III without any issue.Marco71

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 03:54:47 pm
content: I bought this recharble battery for my 87's and I'm quite happy, It's impossible to leakhttps://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32950419657.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4d32705cm6JFV8&algo_pvid=2bec41ec-41ad-42f6-a8f0-b238dd55e9ed&algo_expid=2bec41ec-41ad-42f6-a8f0-b238dd55e9ed-39&btsid=0ab6d70515950875993507752e0f60&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

author: Johnboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 04:40:42 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on July 18, 2020, 06:02:14 amSame here for the 9V UL's for my Fluke meters. I have also been using Ultimate Lithium AA's in the lone Fluke I have that uses them, but due to its battery-hog nature, I am contemplating switching to rechargeable NIMH's this time when they wear down. I am a little more concerned about the Ultimate Lithium AA's, more because of the when-new voltage in series than because of the potential leak factor. The Flukes I've used seem to be overengineered to some degree in their specs to be rugged, and don't seem to mind the slightly higher voltage, but Fluke does not recommend their use. There are some multimeters that more obviously do not like lithium batteries.Energizer makes some bold claims for their Ultimate Lithium's, which may or may not justify the price tag. As has been posted in older threads, the alkalines were similarly heralded as leak-proof when they first arrived on the market. Whether Energizer is going to jump to offer to replace your F289 is questionable anyway. My perspective on the leak factor is that any product produced on as large a scale as batteries have to be are going to have quality control issues somewhere, and until some new technology emerges that allows for a failsafe production method, there is no one "truly safe" battery for these expensive meters; you've got to keep an eye on them and replace them occasionally. Even the newer rechargeables have been known to leak in isolated circumstances, which is the other reason why I haven't made that jump yet. The 9V lithiums have (so far) not seemed to invite any widespread reports of damage... yet.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 03:29:34 am
content: The 9V lithium batteries do work fine, I tried them in a few smoke alarms back before LSD NiMH batteries in that form factor were available. They're not price competitive anymore though, I can buy two NiMH 9V batteries or a rechargeable li-ion type for the cost of an Energizer lithium primary battery.

author: Corner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 07:05:41 am
content: I'd also like to add my experiences about alkaline 9V batteries.I've always used alkaline batteries in all my cheapie meters. One of the meters I have that eats 9V like no tomorrow is UT61E. I sometimes forget to turn it off and the battery drains dry as a result. I've never had it leak at all. The batteries I use mainly are Coles branded and Target branded ones. Never had any of them leak over the years.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 01:05:12 pm
content: To the OP: I don't think there'll be a problem with the Lithium 9V cells on your meter either. I use lithiums on several meters, but never used 9V on them given that historically I had one, perhaps two accidents.On the other hand, AA and AAA problems are very real - having lost several new and irreplaceable equipment over the years, I use Lithium cells on the most valuable ones. I don't use rechargeables as, in my use case, they become a burden to manage charges, etc. (Too many gadgets, kids toys, etc).I have noticed that the chance of alkalines leaking are with equipment with a standby mode that slowly discharges the battery over time, as well as equipment that is subjected to mechanical abuse (flashlights, for example). Most of the stuff with a mechanical ON/OFF switch seems to preserve the batteries for a lot longer.I too had the offending leaking batteries on their original packaging. I wonder if they were stored improperly or subjected to mechanical abuse.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2020, 11:54:09 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 18, 2020, 04:59:47 amThank you, wise old denizens of the EEVblog forum. I just now swapped out the alkalines in my Fluke 179 and Fluke 26III for NiMH. I have never been compromised by a turncoat 9V alkaline, but I have lost good men in the war against alkaline batteries. I've got a fancy Garmin GPS full of white crust from a failed AA and I'll do anything to avoid that awful sinking feeling again.

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2020, 08:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: Corner on July 19, 2020, 07:05:41 amIt can happen. Not as common as the AA and AAA regular debacles we all see. I bought a lot of 9 non-working Fluke 27/FM's off Ebay. One of them was a mess. Exactly as noted just upthread: "I have seen cases where, over time, this travels by chemistry or capillary action into the connector, down the wires and onto the PCB. Believe me - electrolyte chemistry attacks on meter PCBs is what you don't want."Exactly what occurred to the one. The electrolyte had run all over the board, and had been so strong that it corroded completely through the copper of the battery wires.I think designers could make an easy access battery compartment an important design consideration. If you could pop it open and pull a 9V out after use with ease. Maybe Dave is listening? Looking forward to your new $150 meter...more so if it has this feature:-)

author: Johnboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2020, 08:10:26 pm
content: Quote from: bc888 on July 22, 2020, 08:07:28 pmThe 27/FM has rubber gaskets to seal the compartment airtight (I can't recall whether there are tiny ones under the screwheads as well). I had wondered how that sealed environment might be affected by the gassing-out-rather-than leaking-electrolyte effect of the 9V Ultimate Lithiums in that particular meter model over time.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2020, 08:24:09 pm
content: Stick a 9v alkaline battery inside a zip lock bag with tape around it. You’ll lose the battery clip but that’s acceptable loss.GP ultra cells have never been an issue for me.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2020, 12:51:40 am
content: I use a lithium in my 87V, I only switched over because another member showed their Fluke with some corrosion on the battery clip.I can live with the $10 or so every few years because my main meter just uses AA batteries (eneloops). The peace of mind is worth it for a meter that only sees occasional use.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2020, 04:58:12 am
content: If you're already using Eneloops in your main meter, why not LSD NiMH in the 87 too?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2020, 05:59:58 am
content: I just switched over to energizer lithium in my U1282A after the alkaline batteries decided to leak all over costing me a couple hours of clean up. In less than a week it ate up the metal clips and the plastic of the case and started on its way to the actual PCB. Luckily the spring contact was able to be saved and the board was safe.

author: basecase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 11:48:57 pm
content: I thought it was a good idea to buy Energizer Ultimate Lithium 9V for my 87V. The battery that arrived ended up not fitting into the battery compartment due to the corners being too pointed.

author: andyhi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 09:13:34 am
content: Quote from: aargee on July 17, 2020, 09:36:54 pmI second this ***WARNING*** of damage due to use / storage of alkaline 9v batteries in your meter.I have a like new ~5 year old 87V that had been in storage since earlier in the year... pulled it out recently to troubleshoot a circuit and found a dead battery. The 9v Duracell Quantum leaked / corroded out the top of the battery... black/grey fuzzy mess. Also found every piece of exposed metal on the positive battery lead was coated solid blue and mostly rotten.... from the 9v snap connector all the way down to the JST style connector on the PCB.Got lucky and was able to clean and salvage the connector soldered to the board, but the quick disconnect side and 9v snap connector fell apart. It was a pain trying to find a replacement quick disconnect but was able to use pins from one JST style connector and modify the housing from another off brand JST to work well enough.I immediately swapped all my alkaline batteries to Energizer Lithium's 9Vs and Eneloop NiMH AA LSD 2100's in all my meters and other portable electronics/tools.Note - The current style 9v Energizer has very square sides and can be a very tight fit in the 87v... Due to issues with battery door fit mentioned in the post above, I ended up rerouting the battery leads so that it did not not run under/behind the battery.... not a big deal in my case as I had to replace the snap and lead anyway.

author: samson
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 09:26:00 am
content: 9volt Batteries don't leak......

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 11:16:09 am
content: This is not true.I am not sure if you are trolling, but your sentence is dismissive of several reports of leakage not only on this thread but also in several others around this forum.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 11:41:08 am
content: Quote from: samson on December 09, 2021, 09:26:00 amThe correct statement is: 9V battery do not leak as often, because they have two layers of enclosure.I opened a couple of them here:https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VAlkaline%20UK.htmlsome of them had started to leak internally.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 12:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: HKJ on December 09, 2021, 11:41:08 amPlus: A 9V battery snap is easy to change if they do, unlike the custom springs in the compartments of AA batteries.

author: trebejo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2022, 05:52:21 am
content: So I landed on this (old?!) thread with my usual scant knowledge, seeking a definitive answer for my yellow multimeter from your ever-flowing fountain.So now I see that I should use a lithium battery, unless I prefer an alkaline battery, unless I prefer a rechargeable NI-MH battery, unless I prefer a lithium battery, unless...I probably misread it, but I felt like I was walking on a Moebius strip.After reading through it I stuck a rechargeable NI-MH into the meter and reassured myself that it will request a recharge before it leaks, unless...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2022, 07:16:38 am
content: NiMH isn't supposed to leak. That's for Alkalines.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2022, 11:44:21 am
content: Summary:- Lithium non-rechargeable works (for the 87V). It is expensive compared to Alkaline batteries.- NiMH works (for the 87V). It is less expensive in the long run, but it has lower voltage and therefore the DMM will complain about low battery more often.- Alkalines - use it at your own risk.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2022, 12:55:42 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 11, 2022, 11:44:21 amBut cheap compared to the device you're putting it in and it lasts a long long time, so...

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2022, 03:23:10 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 11, 2022, 11:44:21 amThis complaining may or may not be a bad thing, as the other rechargeable route is Li-ion PP3's, which maintain a steady voltage throughout their discharge cycle, and therefore give no warning whatsoever when they are running out.On the plus side, they do last for absolutely ages in my 87V

author: trebejo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 01:55:39 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 11, 2022, 11:44:21 amNicely summarized, muito obrigado. So the best answer is, as usual, "it depends". I'm going to leave the NiMH battery in there, and use an alkaline temporarily when the NiMH needs recharging. It could be a little tedious to open up the fluke every few months but I will take it as a therapeutic ritual. If I had several portable multimeters then I would have to rethink this, but no one needs several portable multimeters, right?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 03:03:50 am
content: De nada. Indeed, with a single multimeter your solution is quite reasonable and I would do the same.Having a number of multimeters and other portable gadgets that use batteries (including my kids' toys), I personally tend to shy away from the rechargeables simply due to the upkeep.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 03:05:44 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on February 11, 2022, 03:23:10 pmIt is good to know that rechargeables last well on your 87V.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 08:56:24 am
content: Quote from: trebejo on February 12, 2022, 01:55:39 amYou've clearly not spent any time in the TEA thread yet...

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 08:20:46 pm
content: I also have another discussion on the leaking AA cells, just look up Durahell. In considering rechargeable, it is important to use those cells with low self discharge feature. It minimize the impact of storage time on the readiness of your meter, I use Eneloop on my tools and equipment and it has served me well.I agree with Fungus, the price premium I pay on lithium and Eneloop is nothing compared to replacing a PCB on a Fluke/Keysight or a ruined Snap On tools. I would say for most tools, it is well worth the price for better batteries.However, for my Extechs and Harbor Freight DMMs, I only use the Alkaline batteries in them as I don't care if they got ruined.