SN74HC14N - Genuine or Fake? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: brian_mk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 07:31:58 pm
content: Does anyone recognise the logo on these SN74HC14N devices.The logo looks a bit like a crude imitation of the'Texas Instruments' logo.The printed numbers are almost unreadable to the naked eye.Could they be fakes?They appear to be working as far as I can tell.

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:05:44 pm
content: Who would bother to make fake 74HC14 ic's? They are about as simple and cheap a device as you can get, maybe re branded 74HC04s?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:27:13 pm
content: There are loads of fake jellybean parts like 2N3904 transistors out there, so while I don't know why it happens, it does happen. Probably somebody buys up a large batch of reject dies.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:40:50 pm
content: Well, they are some sort of 74xx14. But marking is certainly fake. Most likely someone sanded, blacktopped and relabeled them.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:42:49 pm
content: Quote from: moffy on May 10, 2023, 09:05:44 pmThe same people who counterfeit 10 times cheaper parts too. You'd be surprised, But like 90% of simple logic ICs from aliexpress and ebay are counterfeit.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:49:33 pm
content: I'm betting in a lot of cases they're just cheaply produced ICs that have a reputable brand name slapped on them in an effort to increase sales.

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 12:01:09 am
content: Quote from: brian_mk on May 10, 2023, 07:31:58 pmIf they are functional, why call them 'fakes' ?There are a growing number of Chinese CMOS LOGIC vendors, could be any one of those.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 01:01:40 am
content: Quote from: PCB.Wiz on May 11, 2023, 12:01:09 amBecause counterfeit tools work too (on a first glance), however have shit quality, don't last long, and most likely cannot do the job as well as genuine stuff. You don't know what hides under this marking, these could be old salvaged parts or modern clones. They may work fine in one circuit but fail in another which has tighter requirements. What is real performance/specs/reliability nobody knows. Are you OK with buying a TV or smartphone impersonating a model from major manufacturer and seller not telling that to you?

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 01:10:48 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 11, 2023, 01:01:40 amNot the same thing, as I'm not seeing the 'impersonating a model from major manufacturer' here ?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 01:16:02 am
content: Quote from: PCB.Wiz on May 11, 2023, 01:10:48 amThey are certainly impersonating TI. And I'm 95% sure these were sanded and blacktopped before applying new marking by laser. And thus marking will go away if rubbed with solvent.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 01:21:45 am
content: I'm OK with parts from Chinese manufacturers. But I will go to LCSC and buy a real deal with datasheet, not cat in the sack.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 02:15:30 am
content: To me, that does not look like the TI logo at all.If you squint and blur your eyes, it sort of does, so perhaps some Chinese company decided to take advantage of that, but it looks more like this to me:

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 02:24:09 am
content: Quote from: amyk on May 11, 2023, 02:15:30 amYes, it' closer to a stylized 'W' or ω than the TI logo, at the price and demand of DIP logic it's a wonder anyone would bother.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 06:34:07 am
content: It's definitely not TI. I still have TI chips from decades ago.The font on the ICs is wonky. Have a close look at the printed "N", "S", "X", for example.Chinese fakes tend to have trouble with Western fonts - I have no idea why, but I'm thankful.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 06:36:49 am
content: Quote from: PCB.Wiz on May 11, 2023, 12:01:09 amFor the same reason we call a fake Rolex watch fake, that's what it is. It may be a functional watch but it's not made by Rolex, despite being branded as such. Also like the fake Rolex, the ICs may be "functional", but that doesn't mean their performance will have any relation to the specs on the datasheet. The issue isn't that it's made by a Chinese company, the issue is that it claims to be something it isn't, by carrying the logo of another manufacture.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 06:53:14 am
content: The logo only looks remotely similar to the Ti logo - not really if you look closer. The problem is just that we don't know the actual manufacturer and have an original data sheet.HC CMOS logic is far from sophisticated and even for a chinese manufacturer chance are high that they would meet the specs for an 74HC14.There is still a chance that these are not proper parts. Without the proper data-sheet they are pretty worthless for serious use. For a test on the breadboard they may still be OK, at least if the 1st one behaves OK.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 09:06:31 am
content: If you need to ask, it's fake.Quote from: james_s on May 10, 2023, 09:49:33 pmThis exactly.It's some fuck-knows-what made cheaply in China which may or may not be functionally equivalent to a varying degree with the part number printed on it and may or may not meet all performance specifications of the original part (particularly at temperature and supply voltage extremes). The logo and style of markings is meant to vaguely resemble a known brand, while being distinct enough to make an argument that it isn't blatant trademark infringement, which it of course is.This shit is everywhere on auction sites. Jellybean logic, common analog chips, NE555, DS18B20, power transistors, all sorts of stuff.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/watch-out-for-fake-74ls-logic-ics/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/whats-inside-the-cheapest-and-fakest-jellybean-opamps/

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 11:29:18 am
content: fakes as hell but i hope your project is not sensitive or very important or involve security etc ....I almost stopped buying things like this from flea market bay express ...i put acetone on a swab and the writings goes away ...... our company lost $$$ in the thousand .... of fakes chips lately, hard lesson ...even genuines one like zynq "xc7z" series fpga who was at 40$ is now paid 180$ / ea ....... and sadly we need them, we buy 200x each year pffffffnow we redesign some of our products because of that re - pffffffff loll

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 01:21:47 pm
content: Not fake, different manufacturer.Fake is when pretending to be something else. Those chips doesn't want to be TI, and obviously the logo is different, not an imitation attempt. TI is not the only producer. Former TTL were made by a lot of companies, let alone the newer HC ones.I bet those ICs work just fine, as any other 74HC14.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 01:42:10 pm
content: Blacktopping and laser marking a part is extra effort compared to just laser marking the packages in the first place. I wouldn't blacktop something unless there was something underneath that I wanted to conceal. I won't speculate on what, but there's something.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 02:54:38 pm
content: Quote from: moffy on May 10, 2023, 09:05:44 pmI stopped asking that after I found counterfeit 2N3904s and BC550s.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 02:59:57 pm
content: why not make a simple oscillator and look at the rise time? Use a 5v supply and a 50Ω load and you hsould get about 1ns if its legit. If its a LM324 or something junk in there, the rise time will tell you.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 03:12:21 pm
content: It's hard to tell from the photo, but to me it looks more like a part with original markings done with a cheapo laser engraver, rather than a remarked part.Usually a remarked part will have more visible stamped markings.Quote from: antenna on May 11, 2023, 02:59:57 pmThis is a good idea, although OP already said they are functional. They could be mismarked 74HC04/74HCU04/74C04/74C14 etc., and building a reasonably fast 1 gate oscillator would rule that out quickly.You are mixing up 74HC with 74AC though. A 74HC14 isn't that fast and can't drive 50Ω.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 03:20:29 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on May 11, 2023, 01:21:47 pmThey want to be TI. They use similar logo and overall similar marking. Fake ST 78xx vregs also often have logo which is not exact ST but similar enough you'd think it's ST on a first glance. Often they are explicitly sold as SThttps://www.ebay.com/itm/271507878763. Ebay and aliexpress are full of that garbage which cannot even output current real 78xx must be able to. Also I'm pretty sure this is not an original factory marking but alteration which happened down the road.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 03:36:28 pm
content: The fake Rolex comment gets to the second big part of the issue.Some brands, Snap-On, Rolex, Tektronix command high prices for their products. Which may or may not be higher quality than other brands. I have a 25 year old fake Rolex. It still keeps time as well as any other mechanical watch I have seen, being reset only because of DST. While there are many tools worse than Snap-On, testers have found several cheaper brands that perform as well.Many of the comments here reflect the FUD marketing of the top brands. You can trust us, you can't trust the other guys. There is an element of truth in that. But the logic fails when this is extended to "the other guys are bad."The bottom line is your needs. It may be cost effective to buy parts which don't have "assured" quality and then test to see if they meet your requirements. If your needs are particularly stringent it may be appropriate to do some testing of parts from "known good" suppliers, to verify that they are what they claim to be. Even the big guys have bad days.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 05:00:54 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 11, 2023, 03:20:29 pmThere are chips recycled from e-waste which had their original markings erased, but there is also a lot of brand new chips produced in China with fraudulent markings. Most of them look absolutely pristine like the package has never been tampered with so it seems that they are being ordered from the factory with no markings at all or perhaps with fake markings right away.Another custom order you can get from Chinese factories is an LM358 dual opamp with only one channel connected to pins, matching the single opamp pinout. These chips are subsequently marked as TL071, NE5534, OP07 or similar and sold on sites like eBay/AliExpress/Amazon/etc.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 07:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: magic on May 11, 2023, 05:00:54 pmLet's call that category the "original fakes".Then we have the "clone fakes" (still working), then the "fake fakes" (other opamp model inside), and the "empty fakes" (no chip inside).

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 04:36:00 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 11, 2023, 03:20:29 pmLook at your picture of the "7805". Notice how the date code "1212" has wonky characters.Thank you Chinese fakers. Keep up the bad work. Never change, please.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 05:07:56 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 11, 2023, 03:36:28 pmReally? If you are a large user, genuine L7805CV from ST can be had for $0.25 in bulk. If you are doing a one-off or repair, $0.69 in singles. How much can you save buying the junk ones from eBay/AliX/flea market?And on the other hand, assuming these are 'faked' using smaller dies from some unknown factory, who has the time to manufacture these and then ship a 10-pack to me all the way from China? And pay eBay fees on top of that? For $1.04?https://www.ebay.com/itm/225322416404Edit: In case a buck is just too much, here's a cheaper deal...https://www.ebay.com/itm/334863475554

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 09:46:20 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 12, 2023, 05:07:56 amThey are much cheaper than that. US$0.26 @ qty of 5 and $0.15 @ qty of 500 at LCSC and for real big direct from manufacturer orders they likely go for a few cents. And you can have other genuine 7805 for half of that.https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Linear-Voltage-Regulators-LDO_UMW-Youtai-Semiconductor-Co-Ltd-L7805CV_C347289.htmlAs of say power MOSFETS, you can simply buy something genuine but cheaper with similar or lower ratings if so tempted with fake crap. Counterfeits have much smaller silicon die than original anyway. You can easily get better genuine parts for less than you pay for cat in the sack.