PCB Fail - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 09:01:37 am
content: Just got a panel of prototype PCBs back from our manufacturer.The picture says it all. On the left is the bottom copper Gerber I supplied to the manufacturer. On the right is the bottom of the PCBs I received back. I have no idea how they managed to managed to make that mistake. The really odd thing is how the pour is selective. I had other designs on the same panel and they're all fine, but all 8 of this design are faulty.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:27:17 am
content: Interesting and strange. I guess a bit sad too.Who was the manufacturer? and can you post the other layers? maybe they mixed up the layers. maybe solder mask got made into copper.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:32:07 am
content: have you probed it? They may have given you a few bonus layers

author: Memphis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:33:47 am
content: LoL, try to power it on, maybe the missing traces will appear

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:39:42 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on May 01, 2013, 11:27:17 amBEC Manufacturing. They used to be flaky many years ago when they were manufacturing in Brisbane, but I've had good results (at least for prototypes) from them since they moved to Shenzhen.QuoteNone of the layers look anything like that. It's just double sided. Everything looks the same as the Gerbers except fro the bottom copper, and even then, only on that one design (4 boards per panel x 2 panels). The other 3 designs (total 34 boards per panel) are fine.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:41:26 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on May 01, 2013, 11:32:07 amLOL! Even then, too many critical things from the top layer go straight to ground.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:42:26 am
content: Quote from: Memphis on May 01, 2013, 11:33:47 amI'll need to drag out thebigpower supply.

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:44:57 am
content: A small round off-error in pour outline vertex coordinates may have caused the flood fill to "escape" due to not closed outline. Generally, fill using draws is much safer, although that will result a much larger gerber file.Regards,Janne

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:51:57 am
content: We use BEC for prototype panels and haven't had any quality issues that I can recall since they moved production to China. I panelise first and send them the Altium PCB file though.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:53:49 am
content: Quote from: jahonen on May 01, 2013, 11:44:57 amI don't have an option for that in my software (EasyPC), but I always check my Gerbers in Viewmate and GC-Prevue.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:56:50 am
content: Quote from: Mike WarrenI've been using BEC for 25yrs+. Their "as many designs as you like" one 1 panel has saved me 10's of 1000's $ over that time.They still run their Brisbane plant, usually fast / special orders, NC stuff and admin. There's been minor muck-ups before they moved,definitely a bit more common since they moved, but I'm sooo far in front, these don't bother me AT ALL. No aussie supplier I've used in thepast has been 100% anyway (granted - less imperfections, but at huge cost).Interestingly though, I got a largish qty last week and there were a noticeable amount of solder mask / etch errors (nothing serious in mycase). My guess is some machine is playing up and the aussie supervisors haven't got to it yet :-)

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:59:39 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on May 01, 2013, 11:51:57 amSame here. I've been very happy. We usually get more boards than we ordered. I panelise my jobs too, but send Gerbers as that's the only output EasyPC supports.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:08:28 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on May 01, 2013, 11:56:50 amThat's what I like about them too. You can do whatever you want (within reason) in a panel. They even follow my routing exactly, which sometimes matters.QuoteReading between the lines, I had the impression that everything was done from China now. Emails seem to be answered during Chinese business hours, and an email enquiring if these boards would be held up by the current holiday in China was replied with "This job has been finished and waiting to be picked up here, the holidays won't have a chance to effect it."The boards were still in China at that stage.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:16:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mike WarrenI've rung Brisbane on many occasions this year (even did a factory tour before they moved). They split the work between the 2 locations.I've had my gerbers processed here - was rung up about a query, on routing slots actually :-) , they used to be able to do 25th, but nowit's 48th min (due to breakages) .. that hurt a bit, especially on small connectors with tabs, but I get around it now.End of last year, I had an urgent job and it was done in Brissie in 3 days, so the factory is still running.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:27:32 pm
content: I was under the strong impression that the Brisbane plant had no working PCB manufacturing machinery now. When Mao left they moved the CAD processing to China. I'm pretty sure the owner told me that he moved all the production to China as well when the Brisbane machinery could no longer be maintained/repaired.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 01:12:54 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVDHmmmm .. something fishy is going on :-) Maybe they sub'd my work out to a another local? It did come from Brissie, I just assumed.I'm pretty certain they do have "some" sort of operation there? Just the NC stuff? Maybe it's been scaled back gradually?I was told the gerber pre-processing was sometimes done there. It's hard to get real facts from them, maybe I should visit again :-)

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 08:38:53 am
content: Well, BEC have done the right thing and are remaking the panel as an urgent job. They didn't try to fob me off.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 08:46:19 am
content: Quote from: Mike WarrenGreat. Always been fair to me as well, when they've messed up.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2013, 11:42:57 pm
content: Replacement panel just arrived.As a bonus, I get more of all my other boards as well.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2013, 11:52:00 pm
content: Did you end up having to change anything at your end?

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 12:01:31 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on May 08, 2013, 11:52:00 pmNo. It was their problem.