Help Me Spend US$10K - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 08:33:33 pm
content: I just finished some consulting work recently with the intent to use the money to buy some test equipment for my lab. I've got around $10K U.S. to spend and don't know where to start.I bought an Agilent DSOX3000 series scope and a LeCroy logic analyzer recently, so I've got that covered. So what to get? Programmable power supplies? DMM(s)? I2C/SPI/CAN analyzer?Do do mainly robotics and general hobby projects (mostly digital and microcontrollers).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 08:39:40 pm
content: How about saving it "just in case"?

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 08:46:17 pm
content: Maybe an ARB (the one in our 3000x is a bit limited and also can't do sweeps).A cnc milling machine could be loads of fun for your robotics. I have a 7000 pound Shizuoka bedmill I have retrofitted with modern computer controls ($500 total in the whole mill after selling the Fanuc stuff on ebay several years ago) but you can get a Taig fully cnc'd for fairly cheap. It will do a lot more than those hot melt glue gun 3D printers too!

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 08:46:46 pm
content: A nice trip to Thailand will do.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 08:57:37 pm
content: tom66: No need to save it--already have plenty of what Dave calls "Screw you" money in the bank.KTP: Already have a Bridgeport mill and Southbend lathe, so machine tools are covered, but nice suggestion.aluck: I'm not into heat and humidity (or young girls).

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 09:50:29 pm
content: If you want to advence in robotics... Maybe some mid-end FPGA devboard? Or other devboard? there are some pretty pimped-out devboards in $1k range.

author: _Sin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 10:01:57 pm
content: Equipment seen in the EEVBlog lab: Seems you can never have a shortage of power supplies, DMMs, and loads. Also: 3D printers, stereo viewing scope, signal generator, spectrum analyser, breast pump...

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 10:04:37 pm
content: The best use for your ten thousand dollars is to buy an omnigizmometer.To order one, just send a cheque for US $10,000 to the following address:42 George StElmsdale, NSCanadaB1A 2E6Please make the cheque payable to "Nicholas Olsen"

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 10:24:24 pm
content: You should think about what you find lacking in your current setup, which may give a clue as to what might be useful.If you don't already have one I'd highly recommend a used Herman Miller Aeron chair.Also a Metcal MX-5000, with soldering and desoldering handpieces, small compressor for the latter, and selection of tips.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 10:25:22 pm
content: Buy several sets of Lego Mindstorms for your local school and pay for them to enter a team into the First Lego League robotics contest, even better - give them some of your time to help mentor a team.Spend the rest on whatever you want, guilt free.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 10:27:52 pm
content: Quote from: olsenn on August 08, 2012, 10:04:37 pmSorry, I already have a half dozen of those..

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 11:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 08, 2012, 08:33:33 pmWhy don't you run through with us what you have first, then everyone can argue about/suggest new items?

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 11:12:27 pm
content: IIRC he has a son in college studying EE, so I have no idea how he has a spare 10K

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:32:24 am
content: That's a lot of dosh for a home lab!A 3D printer might be worthwhile, and a cool toy.A good stereo micoscope. The Mantis Elite is very expensive, but the rolls royce.Spectrum analyser?Dave.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 03:07:14 am
content: DSA1030A-TG3DM3068DG41622 Agilent U1252BSorry, rigol's too good on the high end to be believed ...

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 03:26:40 am
content: Nitrogen generator, makes soldering lead free easyyyy.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 03:39:40 am
content: Here's what I've got so far (that I remember):Agilent scope (200 MHz version (can't remember the model number))LeCroy LogicStudio AnalyzerSaleae Logic (8 channel)Fluke 8808A bench DMMFluke 87V DMMA crappy lab SMPS (0-30v, 0-3A)Metcal MX-5000 soldering ironAoyue hot air stationMicrochip ICD-3Atmel AVR ONE!various J-TAGs for ARMToo many ARM, PIC32, and AVR32 development boards to countKTP: Yes, I do have a son at university studying EE (good memory). I specifically took this recent consulting job to raise the funds for my lab equipment budget, so that money is not going anywhere else. :-)nukie: I don't do lead-free. I have at least 20 pounds of 63/37 Kester solder stockpiled in case the U.S. government decides to ban lead at some point.I've always wanted a spectrum analyzer, but don't know how I'd use it, so probably can't justify buying one.A stereo microscope is certainly high on my wish list as it's getting harder and harder to work on surface mount stuff with my 50 year-old eyes.One big gap in my current setup is a good lab power supply. I've been wanting a good two or three output supply for some time now, but haven't decided to go for something like a Rigol DP1308A or fork out the extra dosh for an Agilent.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 03:43:00 am
content: If you have extra cash the agilent's are really goodOtherwise a good and otherwise not shitty one would be the RigolBut you should look into the Sanwa PC5000 and the Agilent U1252A ( Or 1253 if you so desire the oled screen ... )

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:13:24 am
content: I'm going to agree with Dave about getting a stereo microscope.It's the kind of thing you never get around to buying because it's expensive and when you do have a little money there's always some other piece of test equipment you need more.Since you have a decent amount of cash available now you can afford to get a proper microscope while still having plenty of cash left for other things.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:58:06 am
content: I wouldn't think that if I spent 10k on equipment, I would be any better at electronics. I'd just have a bunch of equipment with more bells-and-whistles than I'd know what to do with. For myself, the limiting factor of what I "need" for a home/hobby lab is my time it takes to learn to that level.Besides a decent scope, 2-3 nice power supplies, a function gen, solder station, hot air reflow,...not much I really need. But something I think everyone could put to use right away, with out much of a learning curve is a laser cutter.

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 10:07:06 am
content: Quote from: george graves on August 09, 2012, 04:58:06 amOne would think that, but I find I use my cnc mill a lot more than the laser cutter head I made for it. It does have uses, but there are only so many things you need made out of cloth/paper/balsa/acrylic/rubber.I 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) the recommendation for a good stereo microscope...invaluable!

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 11:44:00 am
content: I'd go for a Thurlby Thandar lab power supply and decent PCB design software.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 01:21:17 pm
content: QuoteIn which case, on your budget, a Mantis is a no-brainer.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 01:32:05 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 09, 2012, 03:39:40 amThe Logic 16 looks like a worthwhile upgrade in several respects, although there may be cheaper alternatives.QuoteSounds like you've got at least part of your answer right there, thenQuoteIf I were seriously considering a new power supply I'd be very tempted by the offer Agilent are/were recently running -- buy a PSU, get one of their DMMs thrown in for no extra cost. I see you have two Flukes already but, hey, if it's free and might come in useful when they're both busy...

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 01:45:28 pm
content: I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious EEVBlog episode on the topic yet.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 02:57:24 pm
content: Quote from: deephaven on August 09, 2012, 11:44:00 amBut looking at the recent thurlby "teardown" it's not anymore of your money you are worth getting ... Samwha caps ... WHA?!And just look at the skyhigh prices for something that contains samwha caps ...

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 09, 2012, 02:57:24 pmI've used a couple if different models of the Thurly for several years and they have served me well, absolutely no issues with them. The models I have are still available.

author: tnt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:24:47 pm
content: I'd go for a nice power supply (Rigol 3 output, or as you have the cash AgilentAnd if you're into robotics, then maybe a small CNC mill ? or laser cutter. Making your own parts quickly is really nice.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: tnt on August 09, 2012, 04:24:47 pmA bench power supply without a knob for setting voltage/current is as useless as one without a keypad.I wouldn't buy an expensive supply that didn't have both which rules out the rigols.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: deephaven on August 09, 2012, 04:06:54 pmThink ahead, can you trust samwha caps? Not that i canQuote from: Rufus on August 09, 2012, 04:36:15 pmSo you're saying most of the power supplies are useless?Might as well put a keyboard and rotary knob to appease some people ...

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 04:54:08 pm
content: Handheld LCR meter? Agilent or IETIf you don't do the mantis route get a Amscope stereo zoom on one of the adjustable bases. Get the 10Xsuperwide field eyepieces and a .5 objective lens. The super wide fields give lots of room for your eye position to be off center and the .5 objective will give super working distance. 0.7 t0 4.5 Zoom is realy handy to tune your mag to the job at hand. That setup will give you 3.5X to 22.5X zoom range whic covers all you will need. You can't do variable zoom on the Mantis (but they are awesome).No, this is not spam. I am just a very happy amscope customer.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 08:02:18 pm
content: Several people mentioned a spectrum analyzer. I've considered this as I've always wanted one, but never have been able to justify one based on what I do (robotics and general electronics).Since I don't do much (if any) RF work, are there any circumstances where a spectrum analyzer may come in handy? Is there something I'm missing here?

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 08:25:13 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 15, 2012, 08:02:18 pmProbably only useful to you if you were designing a commercial product and you needed it to comply with the various FCC and CE EMC regulations so you could check for radiated emissions.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 08:33:20 am
content: If you play around with RF work and wifi? Or checking wifi anomalies ... But that's RF work

author: Short Circuit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 09:45:02 am
content: USB analyzer if you want to mess around with uC to PC communication.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 10:20:43 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 08, 2012, 08:33:33 pmI'll send you my bank details shortly, you can send the rest to me

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 03:39:30 pm
content: I'd second the LCR meter.And maybe a decent frequency counter with a stable timebase.A used HP or a RacalDana 1991/1992 comes to mind.Note that some HP's has a rather noisy fan in them.I have 2 HP 6632B PSU's (0-20v / 0-5A), and they are super nice.They can act as a 5A active load also.Unfortunately they have some rather noisy fans , it doesn't bother me that much.But the wife demands them turned off at night time (lab next to the sleeping room).This makes 24/7 testing with those PSU's rather difficult.I ended up also getting a HP E3610 & later got an offer I couldn't refuse on a TTi-PL310 , both have no fans.This search string on ebay should list the E36xx'es : (hp,agilent) E36* DCThis is listed as a tripplehttp://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-Agilent-E3630ATriple-output-DC-Power-Supply-/190690932464Edit: Another thing i wouldn't do without (unless you get a Mantiss)Yes my optrician also told me : You're not going blind you just have 40+ sightI have this one 178mm w. 3 Diopter magnification , and a 32w lightring.http://www.ebay.de/itm/TUV-GS-Lupenleuchte-LTS-131CD-s-178mm-Linse-/370541958993Make sure to get a 178mm , and max 5 Diopter (else the working distance becomes too short).As a bonus the lamp also leads the solder fumes out of your face./Bingo

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 04:37:08 pm
content: Note that I will be soon making some free software to turn the Agilent x3000 you already have into a (crude) LCR meter, which might work well enough that you don't need a separate one.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2012, 09:38:56 pm
content: you can get the 6632A's also.

author: Michael Weston
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2012, 08:01:31 am
content: I didn't see an ESD mat nor ESD wrist strap. You probably have those, yet I did not see you mention them in your list. Other ESD items suggestions are a megger (insulation Resistance tester), and a constant monitor.It won't put hardly a dent in your US$10K at a cost ofUS$27.15, yet you might want to consider aBus Pirate. This tool fromDangerous Prototypesis described as:"Interfacing a new microchip can be a hassle. Breadboarding a circuit, writing code, hauling out the programmer, or maybe even prototyping a PCB. We never seem to get it right on the first try.The ‘Bus Pirate’ is a universal bus interface that talks to most chips from a PC serial terminal, eliminating a ton of early prototyping effort when working with new or unknown chips. Many serial protocols are supported at 0-5.5volts, more can be added."Supported protocols include:1-WireI2C*SPIJTAGAsynchronous serialMIDIPC keyboardHD44780 LCD2- and 3-wire libraries with bitwise pin controlIt has scriptable binary bitbang, 1-Wire, I2C, SPI, and UART modes.

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 05:14:12 pm
content: If you don't know what you need; you don't need it. That's my opinion.

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 08:57:18 pm
content: Lucky sod, having so much cash to spend on a hobby!A spectrum analyser is no use at all if you don't do RF work and plenty of radio amateurs have managed without one.No point in spending money on something you won't / can't use especially if you can afford it.From my experience, it is best only to buy a tool when you actually need to use it rather than "it will come in handy one day"

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2012, 11:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: Randall W. Lott on August 31, 2012, 05:14:12 pmPartially agree. Depends on where you plan to go with this 'hobby'. If you are planning on really getting good at electronics and learning a lot, having the equipment before hand can help expedite your learning, I would think.But then again, if you don't know why you have 3 oscilloscopes, then you probably might as well have one.

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2012, 03:39:02 am
content: Considered a rapid-prototyping system like an LPKF E33 router? I like being able to try my designs before I get them sent off for manufacture, so I'm trying to get one that was abandoned by my predecessors going again.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2012, 04:05:41 am
content: Thinking of $10KI'm actually struggling to think if I would have spent that much over my entire 30+ year hobby career!(I'm a tight arse and grew up poor)Dave.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2012, 06:52:34 am
content: I'd start with the little stuff. Make sure the tools you use the most often are the best they can be. Treat yourself to some nice pliers, cutters, screwdrivers, measuring tools, that sort of thing. I'm still using quite a few tools which I was given in my first job about 15 years ago, and they're really past their best and not that nice to use. If you're still 'making do' with pliers that are a bit bent, or screwdrivers that don't fit properly, sort that first. It won't make much of a dent in your budget, but while you're in the mood to buy new tools it's well worth it IMHO.Also worthwhile is a lab kit of common components. Keep a stock of all different values of resistors and capacitors, and any other components you use regularly. Also stock up on wire, test leads, connectors, switches and the like.The rest can wait until you have a compelling need. I buy tools when projects come along that require them, that way nothing expensive sits on the shelf looking nice and slowly going obsolete. I rarely buy any tool "just in case".The major stuff I have in my lab is:- An oscilloscope, obviously. You could easily spent the whole $10k on a scope and it might not be a bad way to use the money at all. If you've not used a 'grown-up' scope from one of the established manufacturers (Tektronix, LeCroy, Agilent and the like) then do at least get a demo.- A 6.5 digit calibrated bench multimeter. Great for measuring things beyond the limit of a handheld meter, like (for example) the resistance of a power cable. Also useful as a reference against which to check other instruments.- 2x good quality bench power supplies. A supply which includes a really accurate voltmeter & ammeter will save you having to fiddle around checking them with a separate multimeter.- A data logging multimeter. I have a Fluke 289 which I needed for a particular job a few weeks ago, and though it's a lovely instrument I'm not sure when I'll actually need it next. I also have a Fluke 77-II and an 89-IV.- A data logging thermometer. Handy for checking whether a hot device is actually overheating, or is just uncomfortable to touch. Also good for keeping an eye on the barbecue!Other stuff not strictly lab equipment, but essential:- A laptop with a bright, clear, high resolution screen.- Networked storage with proper, regular, automatic backups, including off-site backups. Everything of any value at all lives on the NAS, not the laptop's own hard drive.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2012, 06:29:35 pm
content: Don't forget... Extinguisher!I would say a infrared thermometer isseriouslyuseful, i can't count the number of times i have used it forpretty much everythingever since i recieved it a few days ago

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2012, 07:05:49 pm
content: Thermal Imaging Camera.Then you can make even more money off it by hiring your services to people to look for hotspots on their boards, problems in their house Breaker Panels, Checking for Problems in thermal Insulation, etc.In RSA, Companies Charge R5000.00 (About 60usd) to come out, take images of your d.b. and give a written report on undersize cables, bad joints, faulty components, etc that are causing excessive heating.