Looking for a decent sub $1500 bench multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: hansibull
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:32:31 am
content: Hi!I'm looking for a decent bench multimeter to use for electronics troubleshooting and audio-related measurements for use at work.There are lots of meters to choose from, and the specs vary greatly between manufacturers.I've been looking at the Fluke 8845A, but this seems to be quite ancient. It's also quite pricey for the specs you're getting. But is it really nice to use? The Keysight 34460A seems to have all the bells and whistles, but has (from what I've read) a noisy fan and is slow to boot. The Siglent SDM3065X seems to be really slow to settle when I'm used to a handheld Fluke 87V, so hope the bench multimeter can be "snappy" like the 87V in terms of auto-ranging speed.Here are some key features:Must have/be:Not "annoying and quirky to use". I want it to be just as convenient as a handheld. (I bought a Rigol DG1022Z a few years ago because of the specs, and I regret it every single time I use it since the UI is so terrible and quirky)Reasonably quick auto-ranging. At least so that you'll have to sit and wait for each measurement. Maybe this can be adjusted in the settings with a tradeoff in accuracy?5.5 digits or more4-wire resistance measurement with 1 milliohm resolution or better. I'll use the meter to track down short circuits on a PCB, so this is important. If it comes with decent probes, this is a plussTrue-RMSReasonably fast boot time or a soft power switch for immediate startupNice to have:dB voltsCapacitance measurementA latched buzzer so I can drag the probes across a bunch of pins quickly to find a short circuitA fan that's not so annoying you want to turn the instrument off between each measurementThese are the ones I've been considering: but are there other units worth looking at?Fluke 8845A/8846AKeysight 34460A/34461ASiglent SDM3065XI'd love to hear what you would recommend. Thanks!

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:40:56 am
content: Keithley 2015 ?

author: blackdog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:46:36 am
content: Hi hansibull :-)I have several digital multimeters here KeySight, Fluke, HP and Keithley 6.5 digits and the 3458A which is 8.5 digits.Now if you ask me for the budget you have available which one you should buy,I say the Keithley DMM6500.The controls are a little different than the KeySight 34461A and the 34465A which are also good meters, but my experience having used the Keithley for 1 year that the DC stability is better than a pair of KeySight's 34465A which matters to me.The difference is not big.The interface for daily use of the KeySight 3446xA series is a bit easier.But in my use the emphasis is mostly on performance.I hope this helps you a little in your choice.Kind regards,Bram

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:47:01 am
content: Keithley DMM6500

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:39:52 am
content: I use a DMM6500 but it is a touchscreen interface. Not sure if that fits your not "annoying and quirky to use" requirement. I use it for measurements my handhelds are not able to do. For everything else a handheld is still more convenient in my opinion.It has an annoying bug which is only relevant if you want to measure resistance of large inductors. There the autorange function and the 100 Ohm measuring range do not not work. Not sure if there is a fix for that in new devices. But if you don't work with large inductors it doesn't matter anyway.Otherwise i like it. Especially for recording data over time. Measuring ranges are also nice. For example current ranges are going really low so its possible to measure leakage currents. These are the things i use it for.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:51:35 am
content: Capacitance / Inductances measurements use dedicated lcr meters like DE-5000 .... not a dmm or bench meter

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 08, 2022, 10:47:01 am+1 I don't have this model but if I was in the market for a new precission bench DMM this model would be first on my list to look at. I have a Keysight 34461A myself but the DMM6500 has more ranges and other features. One of the things the 34461A can't do well is measure small resistance values as the lowest range is 100 Ohm.Quote from: coromonadalix on November 08, 2022, 11:51:35 amI get that but the thing is that an LCR meter usually sits somewhere in a desk drawer. When I need to measure a capacitor quickly to check the value, I always use my bench DMM because it is always there and has enough accuracy.

author: hansibull
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:13:56 pm
content: Thanks for pointing me toward the DMM6500. It seems like a really nice bit of kit.But sadly, it seems like it's out of stock everywhere

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:20:57 pm
content: I'll be first to say I don't think you will be disappointed with the SDM3065X. While I don't have one, I do have the SDM3055 which shares the same UI. It's never been quirky to use. Plus, there are a lot of YT reviews of the SDN3065X and it is well liked. It's also well within your budget too.

author: oewean
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:57:16 pm
content: You also have the Rigol DM3068, a nice multimeter but a little older "design" with smaller display, but it's easy to read.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:30:47 pm
content: The Fluke 8845A and 8846A are discontinued. I have the 8846A and wouldn't give it up for any other, although it does have its issues (current ranges) and is indeed an older design with a VFD. It is very straightforward to use and has a good array of features. It has things like 1G ohms, selectable continuity thresholds and diode test voltage/current, 1000VAC capability. If you can still find it for sale, I'd recommend you seriously consider it. The 8845A lacks some of these as well as capacitance, so I wouldn't go looking for that model.Autoranging speed and fast continuity aren't usually things that high-end bench meter buyers look for, so you might want to look at less-high-end models and make sure to get feedback from people who actually use the model in question. Some of things you want to know aren't found in the datasheet specs. Also, your plan to track down shorts with a meter having milliohm resolution isn't an easy one to implement and requires specialized probes, such as the 2X4 Fluke models that were just for the 8846A/8845A.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:52:01 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 08, 2022, 03:30:47 pmBench meters are often used for system applications where speed matters. I haven't used the latest graphing generation, but I found the HP 34401A and Keithley 2000 very snappy to the point of needing to slow them down so I can still read the VFD: they can go up to 2000 readings per second under specific conditions. Reading rate and auto-ranging speed should be specified in the data sheet. For example see attachment for the Keithley DMM6500. Pay attention to the footnotes, though.For continuity speed you might have to dig a bit more.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 04:35:20 pm
content: IMHO continuity speed is not a strong suit of the higher end bench DMMs. On the Keysight 34461A there is a considerable lag. Personally I prefer instant continuity so I can wipe the probe across a row of pins quickly until I hear a beep.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 04:49:15 pm
content: We have and use the DMM6500 and three KS34465As, plus a couple older HP34401As and SDM3065+. They were all put to use recently on a complex project that required multiple DMMs to be monitored.IMO you can't go wrong with the DMM6500 or the KS3446X flavors, they are really good, the older 34401As are also very good but wouldn't recommend the SDM3065+ against any of these other DMMs.The recent KS34465A was acquired by error, we had placed an order over a year ago but these were BO, so we found a DMM6500 in stock and purchased this. Seems the PA forgot to cancel the BO KS34465A request by engineering, so when the KS34465A arrived unexpectedly at the shipping dock (house door), he blamed engineering, which blamed the CFO, which blamed the CTO and eventually everyone blamed the CEOHere at Wyatt Labs LLC, we are a one person showBest,

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 04:54:03 pm
content: The DMM6500 is nice, and you might have a better support to your warranty if you are not a company.But I prefer the 34465A. 34461A is probably OK just as well.At least with the Keysight, your exported readings will be in order and you don't have to muck around with buffer size and trigger settings to set up a simple logging. And it does cold junction compensation by measuring a temperature. And the battery which is impossible to reach on the Keithley dies in 3 years or so, which of course you are breaking the holder while replacing. So IMHO only get the DMM6500 if you want to measure very fast.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 05:02:34 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 08, 2022, 04:49:15 pmYou must be the king as well as kings typically refer to themselves as we

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 05:11:35 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 08, 2022, 10:47:01 amA buyers vote(german, translated via deepl)fromVoelkner Electronic:Quote

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 05:18:50 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 08, 2022, 05:02:34 pmWell "we" refers to me, myself and I, so maybe King of a very small Empire!!This also applies when the Chairperson of the Board (read not me, she's the Real Boss) refers to as "we" getting something done, like right now!! Here the "we" refers to me and not herBest,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 05:33:40 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 08, 2022, 05:11:35 pmThink they got the decimal point shifted, our DMM6500 consumes ~2W in standby. Our hearing isn't very good, but no hum detectable either.Best,

author: Hexley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 06:34:59 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 08, 2022, 04:49:15 pmActually, it looks like your CFO did OK: Keysight currently specifies a 64-week lead time (!), so having one in hand is quite an asset. And since prices continue to rise, that 34465A could probably be sold today for more than you folks paid a year ago. Win!The DMM6500 has a mere 36-week lead time by comparison. (Both numbers from Mouser, btw.)Not a great time the OP to go shopping.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 08:12:14 pm
content: Quote from: Hexley on November 08, 2022, 06:34:59 pmExactly why the CFO decided to keep the 34465A after consulting with the CTO, rather than return it, altho the Chairperson of the Board wasn't too happy about thatBTW this wasn't a year ago, just a couple months ago that it was received, altho the original order was placed early this year. Newark even honored the original price which was lower that todays priceBest,

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:20:29 pm
content: Quote from: Hexley on November 08, 2022, 06:34:59 pmNot to mention that even after splitting the profit between the engineer, CFO, CTO and CEO each would have gotten a full share!

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:57:06 pm
content: Quote from: Hexley on November 08, 2022, 06:34:59 pmRS online shop shows expected delivery on 19.12.2022. But also at much higher price compared to what we paid last year.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:09:31 pm
content: you have an 34461A for sale here 750 euro ??

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 12:09:49 am
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on November 08, 2022, 10:20:29 pmThe engineer claimed it was his doing that the KS34465A profit would be realized and asked for a raise, the CTO supported the engineer but the CFO offered a stock option instead after getting approval from the CEO and Chairperson. The option shares were granted on 100mm square soft tissue invisible print on a roll, it's located on a small spool on the wall in the tiny private office room with one "seat" with running water and a fanThis tiny office has the unique property if you need to "Go", you can just "Stay"Best,

author: PushUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:24:13 am
content: For me the DMM6500 is a total "no go", only because of its dimensions, as I don't wanna have a digital benchtop DMM in 2022 looking like an analoge oscilloscope from 1970.As mentioned by Martin72 from above:Here is a video, showing the transformer problem with comments beneath having the same hum noise:"...The hum of the DMM6500 transformer will get worse over time. It makes me really sick and I never use this multimeter just because of this annoying noise..."ht*****tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxa9Q3N5JlUCheers!

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:32:39 am
content: Can't speak to the KS3446x meters, but I have a DMM6500 and while not without it's flaws, I really like it.Pros:- Was _significantly_ cheaper than the KS34461 when I bought it (UK early 2021)- Very fast readings (plus digitiser mode), good graphing, triggering etc built in, lots of memory for readings- Touchscreen is great for complicated setup tasks, and entering numbers into the unit- Can extend with DIY or purchased scanning cards- Lowest ohms range has a 1uohm resolution (not that you're gonna find it easy to get the last digit stable though!)- No crazy plugins or anything needed for the web interface, just works seamlessly as a remote UI, and you can download readings in .csv directly from it- You can write your own scripts to run on it (sadly they often don't play nice when you try and exit, sometimes you need to reboot the meter)- Boots in just over 15s, which seems a lot quicker than what I saw on youtube for the KS3446x meters- You can get support and warranty even if you're a private buyerCons:- Continuity and diode mode aren't as good as a decent handheld meter, no auto-hold (you can improve things and add auto-hold with scripting, but then you need to deal with the flakiness of the script/app system)- As previously noted, the low ohms ranges do NOT like highly inductive DUTs- Not as fast to boot as the trusty 34401A (nothing modern except a handheld is though!)- No hard power-switch (mine draws a little over 3W in standby with a fairly high line voltage, annoying but not enough to require drastic measures)- Early units did have a hum problem, seems to be solved on later ones (and Tek will do a RMA to fix it, even if you're a private buyer and not a company, and you get a free calibration when it leaves the service centre)- Not the best viewing angles in the world on the screen, a little care is required in placement for best visibility- Slightly slower to change functions etc than something with dedicated buttons like a 34401A- 10A input is rear-panel only- Pretty long case as noted above (partly justified by the scanner card support)AFAIK the coin cell going flat problem was solved with in a reasonably early FW revision so might not be an issue any more. Unit is not hard to open up to change it if needed though.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 08:11:34 pm
content: An observation from a non-specialist if I may: leaving aside issues of stability and autoranging for a moment, a fundamental question is whether any provided datalink can change the mode and range or if this has to be done from the front panel.MarkMLl

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:20:23 pm
content: Any decent modern bench meter can be fully controlled from its remote interface (lan/gpib/usb/rs232). If you've got a scanning card you can even switch inputs.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:27:50 pm
content: You'd be crazy not to get a DMM6500 for that budget.Quote from: PushUp on November 09, 2022, 11:24:13 amHaven't heard any buzz, so no it doesn't get worse over time. New units shouldn't have the issue anyway.Mine is a few years old.Quote from: Hydron on November 09, 2022, 11:32:39 amYes its fixed maybe a year ago in the FW.Quote from: nctnico on November 08, 2022, 01:06:17 pmDo any bench meters have ESR?I mean if you just want to check the capacitance thats fine, but for a proper check of a used/old cap it wouldn't be suitable.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:51:56 pm
content: On DMM6500 the hum exist but can be heard only if no fan cooled device is running in that room. Any fan running will cover that hum. Certainly is not a reason to not buy.Mine show about 4W in standby.It is the only that can run locally scripts for extended functions (probe hold, channel grid, etc.), and it has a very flexible way to configure triggers.Comparable, but not as good, with 6500 is KS 34465A at a higher price. I'd recomend it only if you are tied to KS in a professional way (contracts, calibrations).In terms of price/performance DMM6500 it is unbeatable on the market. I would not ignore SDM3065X, it do a similar job as KS & KT, but if you have budget for DMM6500 go for it.

author: hansibull
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2022, 09:45:08 am
content: I've concluded that the Keithly DMM6500 or the Keysight 34460A/34461A would suit my needs.The main issue is availability. I need the meter by the end of this year, and I haven't been able to find any of the meters in stock for a reasonable price.Does anyone know where either of these instruments is in stock?

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2022, 02:46:28 pm
content: Since the new : Keysight - "You have to be a company" to get support.I'd never consider them for a "Private/Hobby" usage.I like them, but will not buy a new KS Instrument, due to their policys./BingoWho have : 3456 + 3457 + 34401 + 3458My next DMM will not be Keysight

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 06:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: hansibull on November 11, 2022, 09:45:08 amWelectron? 6500 is marked as "soon on stock" but they have KS34461A although on short supply.Eleshop expect 6500 on 25 nov.Farnell - 34460A in stock on 17 Nov.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 07:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 08, 2022, 03:30:47 pmUmmm… what? Ok, maybe once you’re at 7.5 or 8.5 digit metrology meters.But others areextremelyfast. Μy Keithley 2015 is spectacularly fast to autorange, which is precisely one of the joys of using it. It’s continuity meter is also very responsive, sufficient that Idon’tbother to pull out the Fluke 87V that’s on a shelf just 1 foot away!I haven’t tested the continuity on it (if it even has it) on the Keithley 2001 at work, but I do know its autoranging speed is fantastic.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 07:57:43 pm
content: Quote from: hansibull on November 08, 2022, 10:32:31 amI can tell you that a Keithley 2015 (which itself is a variant of the Keithley 2000) would likely make you very happy. It’s not a modern color TFT meter, but consequently takes almost no time at all to boot, just a few seconds. (Bear in mind that boot time is not a design priority in bench meters, because for precision measurements, you need to warm them for half an hour anyway. So whether it takes 10 or 60 seconds to boot is immaterial in that context.)A used Keithley 2000 or 2015 is also cheaper.Yes, on a bench meter you can set measurement speed vs accuracy, plus add filtering (which slows things down more). But bear in mind that the fastest speeds are so fast as to be functionally useless for your eyes. On my K2015, I normally use medium speed with filtering to give around 10 readings per second, or slow speed without filtering. Medium speed without filtering is 30 per second, fast is 50/sec. You can’t even read the display at that speed! (Slow is 5 readings per second, still faster than the 3-4 readings per second of most handheld meters.) Autoranging in DC volts/amps is specified at <30ms (150ms in ohms, still awesomely responsive). In AC it’s a lot slower, but I’ve done so little with AC that I can’t say how it compares to other meters.Bench meters in general tend to be more annoying to use because they lack the dedicated function buttons. Switching modes often requires multiple button presses. So you’ll have to dispel yourself of the expectation of a bench meter being “just as convenient” as a handheld. As an example, continuity mode on the K2015 is [2 wire ohms] (because continuity is the secondary function of the 2W ohms button, and then enter is needed to confirm the threshold, since you can set what resistance value it beeps below). On many color GUI meters, it’s more complicated still.I haven’t used the DMM6500 so I can’t comment on its user interface, but given that Keithley is famous for high-speed bench meters, I’d expect it to autorange very, very fast.I wouldn’t buy a Keysight now. I use a 34465A at work, and honestly I don’t love the interface, but the deal-breaker is Keysight’s newfound disdain for the non-commercial user.How bizarre: Distrelec has the DMM6500 in stock here in Switzerland, but not in Norway. I’m surprised they don’t ship it from the Swiss warehouse. (They often ship to Switzerland from the Netherlands when something isn’t in stock in the Swiss warehouse, but is available in the Dutch warehouse.)

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 08:33:30 pm
content: My thesis is a bit more primitive - product placement will play a significant part in the choice - I see "Applied Science" has this bench multimeter, oh!

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 10:01:44 pm
content: The reports of my noise are greatly exaggerated.