Time for a new multi meter - Fluke 77 iv? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: chromesphere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:47:53 am
content: Gday!Ive been watching some of Dave's videos about multimeters which have been very helpful! Im currently looking for a new one as my 10 year dicksmith DMM is being a bit rough around the edges lately.I make guitar pedals (hobbyist), 9v, low power electronics. I dont touch anything high voltage, ever. The features that are important to me are microamp range, a fast continuity buzzer, reliable, auto-ranging (obviously) and capacitance in the pf range. A diode tester that can read forward voltage (and light up LED's) would also be a bonus. I have to say a slow continuity buzzer would absolutely drive me crazy...I cant seem to work out if the Fluke 77 iv can test capacitors in the pf range though.Here is a link for your convenience:http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/digital-multimeters/Fluke-77-IV.htm?PID=56126The 77 iv seems to check all the boxes. The other DMM im looking at is the BK precision 2709B which also seems good.Do you think these 2 options are over the top for small scale electronics? Should i look into anything else, cheaper? I dont mind spending 100-150 on something thats quality though. The 77 iv is a 2nd hand unit for about 100 dollars. I cant really justify shelling out 300+ on the 80 series Fluke though, thats getting a bit too serious.Thank you in advance for any help!Paul

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 12:04:03 pm
content: The 77 IV is a great meter, but it's designed for field electricians, not really for electronics use.e.g. no uA current range.Much better choices out there.Dave.

author: chromesphere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 12:11:54 pm
content: Thanks for the response Dave!Would the BK be more approperiate or am i still not on the right path? What you would recommend?Thanks again for your help!Paul

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 12:52:26 pm
content: Quote from: chromesphere on December 05, 2012, 12:11:54 pmThe 2709B is good, but it's been a couple of years since I reviewed that. Many other options these days.Wait until the Uni-T fanboys jump into this thread :->You can get an 87 series Fluke for under $150 if you wait long enough.Dave.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 02:55:49 pm
content: The Fluke 77 is not true rms is it?I have bought a used 87 (not 3 or 5, only 87) for $54 recently. It is true rms. It works fine (I tested it with the dmmcheck circuit) with a slight problem only on the bargraph.Generally one time sellers (I hope this can be understood...) are the best. Wait to find one of those.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 03:46:49 pm
content: OT: on original 80 series, aka series "I" the LCD elastomer often flexed out of shape with age. If your bargraph is erratic or partially reading, all you need do is disassemble the LCD panel, clean the eastomer and LCD contacts with isoprophyl alcohol and you're good to go.Quote from: Rick on December 05, 2012, 02:55:49 pm

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 04:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on December 05, 2012, 03:46:49 pmMany thanks. I did think about that problem but generally when it is a bad contact problem, you have faded segments right? Whereas in my case the bar segments are fine, however when it is measuring something only the last "bar" moves and is displayed. I do not have a decent camera yet to show it now, but when it displays "0L" on the ohms range you can see the entire set of bars. As soon as it starts measuring something, only the last one or two remain on the display. I was thinking of a more serious problem. I hope the problem is with the elastomer as you say.

author: ModemHead
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 06:28:33 pm
content: Quote from: Rick on December 05, 2012, 02:55:49 pmRight, the 77-IV is not True RMS. The 177 and 179 are, but still no uA range. Nice general-purpose toolbag meters though.

author: chromesphere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 10:36:02 pm
content: Thanks for the replies!Did anyone check the specs of the 77 iv? I cant make sense of them, but the 'Best Resolution' for amps ac / dc is: 0.01mA. Doesnt that mean it will measure microamps?What about the capacitance? it says "Best Resolution: 1 nF' I dont understand this 'best resolution' termonology (i watched dave's video but it doesnt really cover what it means as far as a meters readable range goes).Pretty sure i dont need true rms as my work is mainly with small scale electronics.So if the 77 iv is no go, is there a meter thats suited more to this (small scale electronics) that you could recommend?Thanks again for your help!Paul

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:04:47 pm
content: I think what they mean is the uncertainty is too big when you measure microamps : 2 counts would be at least 20 uA. Say you are measuring 30 uA and you have an uncertainty of 20uA... By the way 2 counts does that mean +/- 2 counts, +/- 20 uA for example?

author: jabramo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:06:52 pm
content: It doesn't have a microamps range. You can think about it like a manual ranging meter can you measure 1v on the 20v or 200v range? Yep will you get a good resolution no not at all. So while it will measure microamps it won't have as many significant digits as a meter that has a microamp range.So when your measuring capacitance in low ranges the best resolution you can get out of the meter is 1nf. So the last significant digit will be in a nf. The nf resolution isn't across all ranges though. When you measuring a 9,999uF cap you can see that it'd be impossible to show 1nf of resolution because you meter only has 4 physical digits on the meter.

author: chromesphere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:10:53 pm
content: Thanks for the responses guys, i think i understand.Unfortunately though, im back to wondering what meter i should get...Something that can handle low current / voltage / capacitance better then high V/I & capacitance i guess...Paul

author: jabramo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:20:44 pm
content: If you want you can go to ebay were they sell 87V NIB for 300 bucks.Other options would include UNI-T 61E which people seem to like. It's only 55 dollars through a good guy (Franky) on these forums. If your looking for bang for buck and your readings aren't life or death critical it will most likely do the job230$ will get you a U1242B from Agilent which is a 4 digit meter and from what I hear is a great meter as well.

author: chromesphere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:27:41 pm
content: Hi Jabramo,Thanks for the reply! Yeah 300 is really pushing it, its not a business as such so its a bit much for me. What about the BK Precision? Is it accurate for low values?http://www.bkprecision.com/downloads/datasheets/2709B_datasheet.pdfI probably should just learn to read those accuracy values...Thanks again!Paul

author: jabramo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:50:31 pm
content: Ya that BK isn't badIf you look at the accuracy specs on the datasheet your accuracy on the DC voltage is ±(0.5 % rdg + 2 dgts) which just means that you can multiply your reading by 1.005 or 0.995 and add or subtract 2 least significant digits. So lets say you have 3 volts the worst reading would be 3*1.005+0.002 = 3.017 or you'd get 2.983 in the other direction.If you have a max budget of about 100 your other options would be looking around for used fluke meters. I got a 83III for 70 bucks and 85III for 80 but I think today I found out it's broken but I wont be able to tell until I get it. So you run that risk by buying used.The Uni-T is a great for what you pay. Like I said 55 bucks shipped and it's accuracy beats out the BK in every range. Has some nice extra features like temperature and data logging.More info on the Uni-t herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/uni-t-ut61e-multimeter-teardown-photos/Seller herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/brand-new-uni-t-ut61e-for-sale/His name is Franky and he's developed a pretty good reputation from selling to others on the forumYou can also look at this video series that dave made on ~100$ metersPart 1part 2It has that BK meter you suggested and it has the uni-t 61D which is a similar meter to the 61E

author: chromesphere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 12:00:04 am
content: Thanks for te explanation Jabramo! I apreciate it!I really liked the BK in dave's review. The continuity mode is somethign i use regularly and its super fast! Same with the readings. I was looking at the 2nd hand fluke because of the brand name, but from what people have said in this thread, its probably not for me?I have a feeling any dmm over $50 is going to be better then what im using right nowlolhttp://shop.efo.net.au/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=267EDIT: actually, looking at the ua range, the dicksmith DMM is reportedly more accurate then the bk precision!!!Paul

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 04:49:33 am
content: You might want to check out the Amprobe AM-270 also. True RMS and microamps. Seems to cover a lot for less than $90 US.

author: dr_p
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 07:38:31 am
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 06, 2012, 04:49:33 amI was going to suggest that as well.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 04:37:15 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 06, 2012, 04:49:33 amWhat is the most performant Amprobe to buy? Do they have something equivalent to the Fluke 87V?AM-160-A ?

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 08:45:59 pm
content: Quote from: Rick on December 06, 2012, 04:37:15 pmDepends on what you mean by "equivalent". You will probably still be using the 87V 10-20 years from now. I've had a Fluke 75 DMM for 25+ years. By a Fluke and you'll be to excited to cry. Worth skipping a few meals for. But then again we're all a little different.

author: danb35
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2012, 11:53:54 pm
content: If the budget is up to $150, a Fluke 87V is within reach--I got one a few weeks ago at around $140 shipped from eBay. It was used, and has a crack in the LCD lens, but so far it seems to work just fine. As others have posted, you could likely get an 87 or an 87-III for less yet.