Better Brand of UPS than Eaton - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2019, 08:31:32 pm
content: Ok,So one of my customers has an Eaton 9130 3KVA Online Tower UPS running their Rack.The rack has a Server, Some Network Switches, Firewall, POE AP's, etc.The UPS is reporting a Load of 375w by this equipment, and its Battery Runtime, with the internal runtime, reports as 88 minutes, which has been tested to be accurate with the load.So, with South Africas unique, one of a kind, not to be found anywhere else, loadshedding situation, the customer would like longer runtime (without running a noisy generator which would wake or disturb their guests).I gave them options of adding Eaton EBM Battery Banks to this UPS (1 Bank at that load will easily give them 2 hours, 4 banks over 7 hours).Now their IT Company comes back to them and says they must not get the extra batteries, because Eaton is not too good a UPS.(But, it is the same IT company supplied that UPS to them just over 18 months ago!)....So, my client wants to know what is a better UPS than the Eaton UPS's. I do not know too many other main name brands, just really Tower and APC. And the reviews I have read on APC vs Eaton show in favour of the Eaton. Add to this that I have seen quite a few retailers, etc, that run their critical IT infrastructure. So to me it seems that Eaton is good.But what are your opinions, are their better UPS's than Eaton to run a small hotels server and network gear?ThanksP

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2019, 08:37:51 pm
content: If you haven't already done so, get in touch with the customer's IT company and get more info on why they think that Eaton is not a good brand. It could be nothing more than a rumour that somebody thinks he remembers hearing somewhere.Ed

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2019, 05:53:12 am
content: I am trying to do that,but the specific IT company seems to be as approachable as our Utility Providers.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2019, 06:11:52 am
content: Eaton makes some of the best UPS out there imo. Certainly better than APC.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2019, 08:15:29 am
content: Quote from: kolbep on March 28, 2019, 05:53:12 amWell, then can you frame the question such they will get the Eaton EBM Battery Bank unless they provide some substance on their suggestion not to use Eaton?Here we are happy users of a Eaton 9355 (12kVA)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2019, 08:52:08 am
content: Tell them you'll install whatever they want as soon as you receive their recommendation in writing.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2019, 10:41:05 pm
content: In large data center UPSs the Eaton Powerware have been among the most reliable along with Mitsubishi. Liebert and MGE (same company as APC) have caused major power outages and overall higher costs of maintenance. Trying to save money on batteries is foolish savings; which probably looks good to management that is just trying to get a bigger bonus this year and worry about next year later.Another way to solve your problem is to have your customer purchase the units complete and add a handling charge to your installation; then let them worry about later consequences of their unenlightened decisions.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 03:08:55 pm
content: Some that I know of and which I found to perform:AC-USV mit Ultrakondensatoren - J. Schneider Elektrotechnik GmbHwww.j-schneider.deDRS Technologies Trusted Series Rackmount Global UPS Systemshttp://www.falconups.comhttp://www.pscpower.com/http://novaelectric.com/?product_cat=ups-power-systemsEnergy Technologies Inc. - UPS, Power Converters, Power Conditioning, WorldPower UPShttp://www.ruggedsystems.com/Products.phphttp://www.riello-ups.com/

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 03:44:18 pm
content: The end application is a hotel. I fully understand the requirement for low or no noise.Having said this, I once personally witnessed in operation a Honda inverter generator. I sincerely could not believe how quiet it was, specially in low power mode. Which, if operated with only a 375 watt load, it would be essentially its mode of operation.Noise could be further reduced by installing it on a custom shed (with fume exhaust provisions, of course).Now, I am not familiar with all the specific details of the location, and my recommendation could be moot. But at least give it a thought.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 03:46:52 pm
content: Depends how much they want to spend, they could just add Eaton extended run battery packs but those will cost a lot per amp hour.Cheaper solution may be an inverter-charger with a bunch of off the shelf large flooded batteries. Essentially a UPS but bigger. Better solution is to do a telco style system, with rectifiers and large batteries, then inverters (pure sine). Basically a large DIY dual conversion UPS.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 04:15:23 pm
content: Well, load shedding is supposed to be 2 hours, up to 4 times a day, with at least 2 hours between each cycle. however there is a very good chance that, due to the massive cooling load that is connected, the switching circuitry will experience either a massive prolonged overcurrent event on reconnection, or the switchgear will fail and not connect. This then results in prolonged outages, and as Pieter is down the coast, and at the end of single power lines with little to no redundancy on the 132kV supply side, and limited MV supplies as well, with often the supply side fuses blowing ( explosively, see Rodalco and Big Clive for video) and disconnecting whole loops, and then secondary LV side 400A fuses suffering from repeated pulse loads and dropping phases randomly.There are a few UPS suppliers around, Tower is quite reasonable, and South African supported, but you will pay R8k for an extra battery box, and R12k again for all those Deltec batteries to fill it with the 72 needed. Will do at least 8 hours with the default battery set if you fill the other bank in the cabinet, with the 36 required, at your load. Stay away from the mystery brand ones, and Makro online has a range of UPS options available, with store collect ( and a forklift or crane truck for the bigger ones) along with Takealot, though your courier will be saying " Hau Baas, Aikona!" when delivering them if you expect to door delivery.Buying extra battery packs for the rack will work, and in general there are very few UPS units that are happy with generator supplied power anyway, unless you have a giant big diesel 15kVA unit, with both frequency control and voltage regulation, such that the voltage is within 10% and frequency is within 1%. Most smaller units will not do this, and the wide frequency range option is often only available on certain models, some are incredibly fussy.I have an APC UPS at home, just had to replace the 2 19Ah SLA batteries, as they were so dead that they would not charge with 70V applied from the welder. Instead of getting 2 new 19Ah batteries, I instead went and bought 2 636 deep cycle batteries, and used the internal battery bay to install a massive 15000uF 63V computer grade electrolytic with screw terminals. Then used the Anderson plug on the rear to connect the 2 deep cycle batteries in series. Now will do 2 hours after doing the recalibrate, and thanks to there being USB, and Linux having reasonable APC support built in, I am able to survive load shedding.Eaton is a lot better, and while I have a (used) Eaton 3kVA unit around, I am loath to go buy 4 deep cycle batteries to use it, as it is 48V powered. Another APC is 36V, same reason, batteries cost money, and I got the UPS units free as they had dead batteries. $100 per battery is not cheap, even more so if I go for the top range of batteries, at near $200 each. Even the correct 15 minute internal batteries are $80 each.As to generators, you cannot buy a generator at the moment, all on back order, because of the Prince of Darkness having insufficient available capacity to handle the load, and not having working power plants for various reasons, and also because the HVDC poer line form Moz being slightly faulty, due to having had a tropical storm run through. In the USA that would be Katrina type of disaster, but here it is just summer. Also there is a shortage of candles.But, going to cut this short, as I am also suffering internet shedding, so am using mobile data to connect. thank you for unlocked Android phones, so you do not need to beg the mobile network supplier to allow tethering on the carrier locked phones.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 04:20:14 pm
content: You could always use one of these:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/free-energy-solution-million-hamsters-spinning-wheels-to-create-450-000-watts/msg2302956/#msg2302956Of course I am joking. I sincerely hope you can find a viable solution.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 04:26:31 pm
content: Riello makes good UPS. Eaton is very good as well. I'd avoid APC as much as possible, they often overcharge batteries and are made from cheap parts, even very expensive models.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2019, 04:31:45 pm
content: This is the perfect question for an It consultant where an answer must be given without knowing anything at all about the matter. This not Gartner Magic Quadrant but it should prove that Eaton is a leader.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 02:42:17 am
content: Suggest to customer that customer should inquire of the IT company how much they would charge for their version of the solution to this problem.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 01:23:17 pm
content: One option might be to use a 48v system.There's a bunch of vendors but one example would bethis small unit from Eltek.