Photonicinduction is MIA - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 12:40:35 pm
content: So it seems Photonicinduction has closed his youtube account. None of his videos are available any more.If you're unaware who/what Photonicinduction was, it was a youtube channel run buy a crazy guy who did all sorts of cool stuff with high voltage, blowing stuff up etc.Some of you may remember the brick in the washing machine video which was one of his first videos.

author: Flavour Flave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 01:19:20 pm
content: Love to know the reason why?Health and Safety?

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 01:45:13 pm
content: "I ain't 'avin it!"

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 02:07:58 pm
content: This may or may not be genuine :https://www.youtube.com/user/Thisisphoton"Chaps, I closed the account for numerous reasons of my own free will, I never received a single account strike and I was not hacked.The account is not recoverable, the vids are gone forever.I was hating youtube more and more on a daily basis, I do need to do a final vid just to explain a bit mo..."

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 10:51:44 pm
content: I have to say I never quite "got" Photonicinduction. Doing crazy stuff just for the sake of craziness didn't really grab me. If there was some hint of a purpose or educational element to it I think it would have been more interesting. To give an example, making a crowbar glow red hot was amusing, but would have been so much better with a description of the transformer that did it and a measurement of the current needed to make that happen.As it was I glanced at a few of the videos but never felt any desire to watch more of them. So my reaction is kind of "meh..."

author: Flavour Flave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 11:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 06, 2012, 10:51:44 pmWashing machine was seminal though. Light hearted entertainment. Very funny.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 11:17:38 pm
content: Quote from: Flavour Flave on January 06, 2012, 11:09:34 pmMy washing machine tried to do that all by itself once, when the concrete ballast cracked and became detached from the drum. Did you know the reason washing machines don't go flying across the room on the spin cycle is because they contain a dirty great lump of concrete?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 11:27:46 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 06, 2012, 10:51:44 pmMaybe it's the cynic in me, but I got the distinct impression there was an aim of becoming the next viral hit, and visions of a commercial return. He may have missed that mark, while he probably attracted reasonable numbers, cheap thrills don't exactly attract loyaltyand the content I'd imagine would have made advertisers nervous enough to say not thanks even if the numbers were big.Those vids were a cut above those from the the average airbag in a microwave loons, and some of the props would not have been cheap, my guess is the vids were becoming a financial liability.QuotePretty much, seen one spark, each next one loses a touch of wow. A bit like each years NYE fireworks supposed to be so much better I'm still baffled how you tell. With crazy person videos often less is better,

author: Flavour Flave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 11:38:29 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 06, 2012, 11:17:38 pmThinking about it now yeah thats makes sense that it needs some ballast. But it is inspired nuttiness or geniunuttiness to stick it in the washing machine.

author: Flavour Flave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 11:40:46 pm
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on January 06, 2012, 11:27:46 pmHe did it for a laugh and it got out of hand.I did wonder how could he afford those vacuum cleaners etc.. that he destroyed. But he did infer in that last video that he was getting advertising revenue and was putting it back in to his channel.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2012, 12:56:30 pm
content: Finally finished off that camera.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2012, 02:01:57 pm
content: Great way to reflect the laser beam back in your eye

author: aokman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2012, 11:26:19 pm
content: wow im quite shocked...i went to check his feed today and everything is gonehe was great for information and light entertainment. He also answered those questions that people always wondered.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 12:56:08 am
content: Wow.Both of the video explaining it have been removed too, can anyone summerise what he said?Giving up the game I can understand, but removing all your content you worked so hard to produce?, that I can't really understand.If it's a Youtube hatred thing, ok, but why not upload the content somewhere else first and transition your audince over?He'd just hit 20,000 subs too and was bigger than my channel.Dave.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 01:14:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 08, 2012, 12:56:08 amHe basically said the whole thing started out as a bit of fun that had got out of hand and was taking over his life, there was relentless pressure to out-do the previous videos, he wasn't enjoying it anymore, people were copying his ideas for commercial gain, he was fed up with the haters, and he wanted to move on and get a life beyond YouTube.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 01:32:40 am
content: Quote from: IanB on January 08, 2012, 01:14:50 amWasn't there something in there about finding a wife too?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 01:36:04 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on January 08, 2012, 01:32:40 amI think that settling down to get married and have children was part of "getting a life beyond YouTube"(Actually, maybe he was commanded to stop by the future wife...)

author: ModemHead
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 01:45:34 am
content: I also picked up a bit of concern on his part that his videos could lead to unskilled attempts to copy the antics, with possible injury and death. And that may be why he pulled the entire library. Probably the smartest move he's made. Yea, he also mentioned something about getting married and having kids.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 02:12:22 am
content: A few years back there was an elderly gentlmen on youtube, probably scandinavian. He used to do great things with really simple components. He did an osciliscope from old tv parts. He was a real inspiration to me, then he disappeared. Which reminds me that I shoud download and archive some of these videos.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 05:13:58 am
content: I am somewhat shocked too. I'll miss the bloke. Apparently he got himself new video editing software, and was playing around with it. So there was an indication to continue, but something must have tipped him over in the past couple of days. I hope he won't regret that decision.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 05:30:49 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on January 08, 2012, 05:13:58 amYes, that would be a shame.Another reason why simply leaving everything in place and going AWOL for a while would generally be the first choice. But I don't know his circumstances, and it's his content too, he can do whatever he likes. Just a shame to see that hard work building up an audience gone in an instant. And Youtube won't give it back to your either - the videos, the views, the channel, or the partner status. Once you shut down, it's all gone.I certainly understand where he comes from in regards to the haters, and the pressure to produce more and better content, it can be tough.Dave.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 07:03:48 am
content: I can bet that he will be back again this year, just wait...

author: Ajahn Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 08:27:07 am
content: I felt a disturbance in the force....as if tens of thousands of YouTube subscribers screamed out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.I can't say I was a subscriber from "the very beginning" of Photonicinduction's channel, but I was pretty damn close, back when it was mostly popular with only the people that knew what they were really looking at, maybe of the first 1,000 subscribers. But now, to find out all of his material is gone, on what seems like a whim? It feels like someone ran over my dog or something: angry and sad, definitely a loss all around.I can understand where he was coming from, and agree with what Dave said. The pressure to perform must be tremendous, and the phenomenon of haters and trolls can make productivity suffer tremendously; for some reason, that's what our minds (as creators) can concentrate on, even if not deliberately. One of those "someone is wrong on the Internet" things. I feel bad for him in a way, but yeah, definitely better ways of dealing with it, IMHO.I'm hoping he returns, too, and that there's at least good copies of his 'experiments', somewhere out there. I hate tohope forsome sense of loss and emptiness on his part, but that may be the only tangible impetus for coming back. It might be a few years before we see anything though if he's truly serious about it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 08:39:15 am
content: One option of course is to disable comments entirely from all of your videos. I know many Youtubers who do that deliberately so they can produce content and get zero negative feedback. But that does hurt your ranking in all sorts of things.If he still has his original videos, it would be possible to change his mind and start again from scratch though. Partner status would come again fairly quickly given consistent content uploads and an audience returning.The strange thing is, he seemed to be really enjoying himself and not giving much of a toss about the haters, so that's why it's quite a shock to me.And he was in a good position to try and monetize it too I think, 20,000+ subs and I think approaching 10M views is a very enviable position.Dave.

author: aokman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 09:12:41 am
content: did anyone cache his video / save it? would love to see his final send off video...Oddly i am still confused as to why he would make a goodbye video and then delete it all, it doesn't add up?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 09:38:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 08, 2012, 08:39:15 amHe did mention something about being able to make nearly £1000 a month from Google ads. Which seems not too bad for a part time activity.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 09:53:04 am
content: Really? That's interesting, because I remember him mentioning that the ad revenue barely paid for his internet bills. But that was a while back.Quote from: SigEpBlue on January 08, 2012, 08:27:07 amI was a subscriber since the very early days, when he had about 100 subscribers... basically in the era when he didn't appear, nor say anything in his videos. I distinctly remember the reason why I subscribed is because he fired up a 300 kV transformer in the lounge room... lol.In retrospect, it is quite fascinating how he evolved over the years. This also illustrates and how powerful YouTube can be, if you use it right. The turning point on Photonicinduction's channel was when his washing machine video got featured on the RayWilliamJohnson channel. Some of Ray's crowd eventually flooded into Photonic's channel; and for the better and worse, he was stuck with them.Speculation here, but I think the situation is probably much deeper than him getting fed up. He might have gotten into trouble with the law, or perhaps his videos did not help his career.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 10:42:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 08, 2012, 08:39:15 amThe vast majority of those views were the classic washing machine, and zapping a spinning CD with HV that was featured on some blogs. All teh other vids were waay less popular.I think the bottom line was he was getting bored with it & it was taking up too much time - there's only so many things you can blow up before it loses its appeal (I speak from experience!).A bit silly to not at least leave the washing machine vid there, as this wasn't especially dangerous and would have provided some income to him instead of the people who will inevitably copy it on their channels.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 10:46:26 am
content: well its all speculationhe was enjoying too i don't see him pack it in eitherhe's been quite successful too appearing on a prime time youtube clip show in the uk.shame really

author: aokman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 10:49:00 am
content: get in quick guysre-upload of the vid

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 11:10:05 am
content: well there we arevalid reasons of coursestill a shame

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 01:10:12 pm
content: I admit that I got bored with Photonicinduction's videos and did not watch any of his uploads over the past few months - the audio on his camera was poor and I found it too hard to hear what he was saying and the destructions appealed less and less to me.Our Dave's videos still go from strength to strength and are still very interesting.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 02:21:11 pm
content: There is a video of Stephen Fry on the internet talking about his manic depressive personality. What he says basically is that if you are an exposed personality you get an enourmous pressure to preform and also you get all sorts of crap opinions from dweebs and generally worthless people. He points out how people in the depressed state really do need moral support while at the same time are unable to let themselves receive it.I think that people who get a lot of exposure on the internet are under much more pressure compared to Stephen Fry. It does not take a "weak" character. Like battle fatigue, sooner or later it overpowers you and forces you to "fuck all" and walk away. My admiration grows for peole who can whithstand this pressure.To be honest I always suspected that what we see of Photonicinduction is his manic side and wondered if the depressed side would ever come around. Seeing the videos, if I was him I couldn't have handled as nearly as well. But still, pople in that state do need a lot of moral supprt.I was considering making a few videos myself but this whole incident changed my opinion. I guess I will seek other venues to express myself - outside YouTube. At any rate if I ever do videos I will distance myself very carefully from what I do on the internet.Finally, Photonicinduction is a very creative and very original person. I will miss his videos.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 05:42:43 pm
content: I think the key to surviving as a video producer on YouTube is to have plenty of positive content in your videos of an informative or educational nature. This aspect of contributing something worthwhile to the community is what will support your self-esteem and allow you to brush off the inevitable detractors. It's the same kind of thing that makes people want to be school teachers and keeps them going in spite of all the downsides to the job.As I touched on in an earlier post, I think the information content is what makes videos interesting to me and keeps me watching them. Like Mike said, after you have seen one or two things blown up you have seen them all. What brings me back to Dave's videos and Mike's videos and others I subscribe to is the educational content within them. It doesn't have to be advanced stuff either--teardowns are fascinating to anyone who has ever wondered what is inside the gadgets they own. Disassemble a digital camera to see what makes it tick: excellent; smash a camera to pieces with a hammer to see bits fly everywhere: boring.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 07:28:27 pm
content: I must admit I could never quite "get" PI. He seemed to be an intelligent bloke, hiding under the facade of being a bit of a chav geezer. It's difficult to translate that if you don't understand UK English, I guess the closest would be to say trailer park trash which, after even a few minutes watching, he obviously isn't. Just like the TV series Scrapheap Challenge (Junkyard Wars in the US) each video has to be better than the previous one, you are always going to come to a point where it is just getting too extreme, costing too much, taking too long or becoming too risky. I think going back to reality is a good choice for him. YouTube will still be here if he ever wants to produce new content.I know a couple of people here who make a living from making YouTube content, both in areas related to games software. I know that for one of them the pressure has become almost intolerable over this last year and he has had to step back from things because it was causing him very real problems. With conventional media you are somewhat isolated from the consumer, but with YouTube the feedback is very direct indeed. What compounds this is that a huge percentage of the audience is immature, both physically and mentally. This is not a judgement, just a statement of fact. The biggest YT audience is teenagers, who have hormones, and those who are particularly vociferous are the ones fighting to be pack leader. This entails all the traits we have come to hate; trolling, spam posting, gratuitous thumbing-down and so on.Unfortunately, the effect of this is that the childish bangs, smells and rude words that draw in the big numbers. I know of a whole series of Minecraft videos that were bringing in well over a million views each within a few days. They must have taken an hour at most to film, maybe a couple more to edit. Compare that to Dave's videos which take a lot of preparation and only get a fraction of the views.The thing is though, the teenage Minecraft audience is now thumbing down videos, getting irate and demanding more. When you get that happen to you, it must be hard not to let it get to you.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 08:57:38 pm
content: I'm glad he's left YouTube and think the final two videos were his best.Although I found some of his videos very funny, I did think he was irresponsible and the stunt with a 1W laser was both stupid and dangerous. I wish him all the best and if he does return, he posts educational material as well as comedy.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 09:03:06 pm
content: What was the laser video?

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 09:45:52 pm
content: I did watch most of his video's lately. Sometimes his video's were just plain old destruction of things, which can get a bit boring (like the where-is-my-hammer-for-this-crappy-old-television-joke gets tired after seeing it two times). Some idea's were quite surprising or interesting, like the HV rectifier glowing beautifully (yet very dangerous) or his lasers. Honestly, I don't mind it being dangerous as hell, as I have no desire to try ANY of the stuff out my self. I still know electricity can kill very easily and that doesn't change seeing him handling 230V wires as if they were from a battery.I find it a shame he left, but I fully respect that his social life goes first.I also have a feeling that he took the copying of his christmas experiment by Thegeekgroup/physicsduck very seriously. I have seen physicsduck's blog about his response and he was like 'sorry whatever, but you're still welcome here'. He showed how much money is made from Youtube by the geekgroup official channel. It was like $1300 PER YEAR. And he explained that the whole camera set they carry is well over 10 times that.But I can imagine that copying the idea from him is kinda lame. I would be the same to when Dave would release his power supply bench kit and someone else (with a reasonably popular channel) comes by 'huh oh we also are coming up with a power supply kit, but with none of the flaws of Dave's kit!'. That would be a huge rip off to the whole community.I don't know exactly what is wrong with the 1W laser experiment.. yes lasers are dangerous, but what was the biggest commotion about (shining at airplanes?). Like the HV rectifier tube isn't dangerous! I have read something into them, and some guys were talking about thin walls. If you have them, either get good protection or just don't do it (because neighbours may get X-rays too!).It's kinda sad he felt so much pressure on overdoing himself. It's like cheating in race games.. first you're like 'woow this car is soo faast'. 5 minutes later you're getting a bit bored, and you cheat more.. 15 minutes later, you've cheated so much it's getting ridicilious and out of control. 'out of control' in a racegame is no big deal, but it would be with high power stuff.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 12:31:04 am
content: I finally got to watch his parting videos, and I can now certainly understand his reasoning.It's a similar pressure for almost every Youtube content producer, including myself, but some cop it a lot more than others, and it can get tough. Luckily it's not as big a problem for me as it is for some others. I actually admire him for ditching it all and getting on with life.I cop the hateful comments too, the occasional death threat or wishing I would die etc, the endless negative comments about my voice, my style, what I should do or should do, what I should have said or didn't say etc etc.I started out leaving it all there, but now I'm actively deleting the stupid or hateful comments and banning people, so the rest of the world doesn't have to see that crap either. But just doing that sucks up a lot of your life. When you get 7000+ views per day across all your old videos (not including the latest uploads), that adds up to a lot of comments and email etc, and of course it only gets worse with time.And then there are the genuine technical questions, both on Youtube comments and via email. I can't possibly answer then all, and that makes me sad, but you have to come to terms with the practicality of it all.Part of the reason I took the risk to go full time is that the blog was sucking my life away. I was spending most nights and full weekends working on it all, and the wife was only obliging because it seemed to be leading somewhere. Now I have the weekends back (that was the deal with the wife), and a resemblance of a life, but she still complains I spend too much time on it.And I now get complaints that I'm not uploading enough material now that I'm "full time" at it, and so therefore have oodles of free time to produce endless content...*sigh*Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 01:27:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 09, 2012, 12:31:04 amSome bring it upon themselves more than others too. The cheap thrills approach just encourages more and more DEMANDS for cheap thrills, if those are the basis for the content then the producer is destined to become another performing seal. You smashed up some cheap rubbish meters once, and some people were baying for more months afterwards.QuoteIt's not just luck, it's also good management. In Blogs, in business, even as an employee there are always plenty of people trying to get you to do things and behave in a way that suits them. Ultimately that is not sustainable if it deviates from where you want to be heading. I'd agree, good on the guy for taking charge of what he wants to be doing with his life.QuoteOffer them twice their money back, twice nothing is nothing! Even for the few that donate it was never a contract to perform, and I doubt many of those are the ones complaining.QuoteWhich is where so many end up disappearing up their own orifices. As a sweeping generalisation people are basically selfish and self interested, it's your choice when you produce kits or videos or answer email and how much of eachyou can reasonably achieve. The great thing about this platform is it makes it possible for participation where other clever people can help with answers.QuoteThat's a conflict which never ends and not one specific only to video blogging. We all have to keep our eye on the ball of what matters and what is really important, those who get it right in the end are the real long term success stories.QuoteThose who complain are welcome to Begin producing their own blogs, just as Jerry Harvey is welcome to enter the world of on-line retail, Lets see how successful they can be. And never forget for every complaint there are probably a thousand appreciative souls who've had no reason to put pen to paper.All too often we give too much attention to the squeaky wheels, I've come to terms that I have I have some customers who will never be happy and some to who my efforts can really make a positive difference. My 2012 resolution is to spend as little time as possible tend to those who will never really be happy and as much effort as is possible/practical to the appreciative majority. The whingers of the world can make their own arrangements.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 02:57:36 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on January 09, 2012, 01:27:59 amQuoteYes, the ones who donate never complain or give demands, which is great.It's usually only the anonymous zero-content producers who complain.QuoteYep, I now direct all technical questions to the forum which is great, and they'll get a much better, quicker, and more widely opinionated reply.Most are genuine and simply don't notice my saying this on the blog/youtube channel page.QuoteYep, that's my standard reply - start your own blog, or post a video response if you think you can do/explain something better. Strange that no one ever takes me up on the offerDave.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 04:22:04 am
content: Quote from: Zad on January 08, 2012, 07:28:27 pmQuoted for the truth.I'm primarily involved in making games and apps for the iOS platform. The sort of comments and feedback you get from the crowd can be demoralising. Many developers I have talked to (and read about in their personal blogs) said that they actively refuse to get involved with the community purely for that reason. They basically spend lots man hours, love and money on the project, only to get juvenile comments, completely pissing all over the product due to superficial reasons. Of course, criticism is always invaluable, but some "critic's" method of delivery just sux balls.Unfortunately, turning a blind eye to these kinds of things is not very practical if you are 1 or 2 man team involved in the project. It's also hard, because some of these overblown user comments can be damaging to the team if they are not addressed properly. So what do you do? You get sucked into a PR vortex. No wonder PR and HR departments that are painful to deal with in big corporations... those departments are specifically designed to be human firewalls against stupidity for the upper management.RayWillianJonson's channel is pretty good case study how to handle some of the nastiness. I think he is doing a lot of things right in that respect. Most people who are being nasty are just griefing for the sake of their own amusement. In those situations you have three options: You either delete, ignore, or play along with it. I'd say play along with it, if you can. Ignoring is probably your second best choice. Ignoring will not stir the hornet's nest, you mentally block-out internet idiots and thus not letting them affecting you emotionally. Deleting should be really a last resort action, mainly because that creates a lot of work for you.If you play along with the joke, it shows the audience that you can take a piss, and they will less likely to give you shit in the future. Ray does that often - you see him saying a lot of jokes/derogatory stuff about himself, which basically shows that no matter how much crap you throw at him, none of that will stick on him.Another interesting strategy I've seen on RayWillianJonson's channel is that they disable commenting after about 1 or 2 weeks the video was posted. It seems to be a good compromise between allowing the fans to go nuts with the commenting and then purge the whole lot once it's out of their system. I guess it's easy for Ray to do, because he as big YouTube footprint, so discarding user generated content like that will make no difference to his popularity. Might be a different story if you still leverage on user content to make a name for yourself.Humans. Pain in the arse.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 11:10:57 am
content: I think he started off doing these videos for intelligent people who want to kick back and just enjoy some mayhem. Then people who don't actually know anything about electricity and electronics started berating him, telling him its dangerous, flagging his videos about the lasers etc. I think part of the issue is that he comes across as a bit of a nutter or a "bogan" when he is actually quite intelligent (and nothing he did was ever life threateningly dangerous albeit a little careless).I enjoyed many of his videos and his style of "presenting" was funny. I don't think his videos were ever very educational, but they weren't meant to be. About the only thing he has in common with Dave's videos is the inclusion of electronicsI wish him all the best and his decision to do what makes himself happy is the right one.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 06:55:24 pm
content: when in doubt have it outhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Come-Back-Photonicinduction/303146713060699

author: Ajahn Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 08:29:34 pm
content: Quote from: Sionyn on January 09, 2012, 06:55:24 pmThanks for sharing. If nothing else, I sincerely hope his truly-devoted fans, i.e. the ones that knew what was he was doing and got a good laugh and/or learned from it, can at least stick together. I still doubt he will return any time soon; Dave and several others here have echoed that sentiment, for reasons Andy gave us himself in the videos.Ideally, I'd like to see a 'closed return' of sorts. One where people can follow him by direct invitation only, and at some other video hosting site to avoid the onslaught of stupidity. Maybe he needs a lackey to perform some of those administrative duties, like editing, invitations, banning, etc.? I'm almost sure Dave could use one sometimes at least.Just as a 'disclosure', if you can even call it that, I've only uploadedtwovideos to YouTube, which I recorded back in 2007 on a whim, with a crappy Sony-Ericsson cell phone. Those were of a 3-phase BLDC controller board build for an embedded systems class. Istillget messages, asking for schematics, more videos, have I updated it, can I buy one, hurr durr your design sucks, and I think BLDC means something else in another language (maybe 'BDSM' in Dutch??? because I frequently get negativity from users in that part of the world). I've not answered a single one for reasons we've discussed in this thread. At first I felt bad, but now I think it was a wise choice. I didn't make those videos for anyone else but my design team and my grading professor, just in case we blew it up, to prove that it worked at some point.Will I change my mind about that in the future? Maybe, especially as I finalize products to release to the general public, but I will probably not allow ratings or comments unless there's a demand for it (in a positive way!). I'm a one-man show, and there sure as Hell isn't money for management monkeys!

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 10:47:05 pm
content: Wow. That final video was...sad.

author: aokman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 01:57:45 am
content: for anyone interested in seeing the other side to some of this from thegeekgroup:Skip to 33min mark, for some reason it wont embed the time stamp.https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUbaAyXYMnbQu0BGGPbvxHsw&feature=player_detailpage&v=w-ANs3jmYKw#t=1976s

author: ModemHead
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 02:14:43 am
content: He's back again. Complaining about people copying and re-uploading his old videos.https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotonicinductionArc

author: aokman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 03:17:47 am
content: thanks for that, im surprised to see that response but its understandable. I really think he could have atleast left his goodbye video up.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 03:41:25 am
content: The hacker in me says copyright...what's that?But there's another side pf me that says respect the request of a fellow engineer.Meh.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 03:54:15 am
content: Quote from: ModemHead on January 10, 2012, 02:14:43 amHe cited OHS concerns about his work, which kinda reaffirms my speculation that his decision is also related to his career. If you are a subcontractor, or represent some other company, then your line of work can be affected by what clients see on youtube.

author: Ajahn Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 04:03:05 am
content: WOO HOO!!!!!SO glad to see him on again! Never been happier to be wrong!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 04:04:35 am
content: Quote from: ModemHead on January 10, 2012, 02:14:43 amAnd rightly so.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 04:07:46 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on January 10, 2012, 03:54:15 amHe said on his new channel:"Will try and get you guys an update this week, few meetings to go, and I should be able to shed some lightall the best? to ya?"May indicate that there is something in the works in terms of his videos and another party?Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 06:06:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 10, 2012, 04:04:35 amWhile he has a valid copyright claim and will probably get Youtube to take them down, I think it's dumb to expect to be able to take something offline once you've published it, especially if it's popular. If you publish something, expect it to be out there forever, unless nobody cares.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 09:48:06 am
content: Yeah fighting the internet is futile. It's like battling piracy - yet another pointless exercise. When you publish stuff online, you just have to factor in that someone will eventually rip you off in one form or another. Of course, that does not mean you should give up completely in protecting your work. There are some cases where chasing people up for violations is worthwhile. But in some cases, the situation can be also a grey area, especially when fans are involved. For example, in the case of Photonic, most of the re-uploads were done by his fans, because they were saddened by him leaving.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 09:58:44 am
content: Ignore them.As far the insulting comment. Isn't there any "content filtering" available from Google?Dave, did the circumstances (full time blogger, no other job) helped you in any way with little Sagan? I mean, the liberty to spend more with him etc.Alexander.Quote from: EEVblog on January 09, 2012, 12:31:04 am

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 11:20:39 am
content: I would buy the DVD Box Set...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 01:10:09 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on January 10, 2012, 09:58:44 amYes, of course. I now get to spend more time with my family, and that was a major reason for doing it.If I had to work a full time job to pay the bills, keep up the blog, as well as help Sagan grow up, not to mention having a life in general, the blog would be the thing that loses out.Dave.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 06:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: alm on January 10, 2012, 06:06:29 amI somewhat agree.Although I make my living by way of the intellectual property I create (video and prose) I believe that if someone makes the decision to leverage that material for profit they relinquish a fair degree of control over where and when that material can be used.Does that sound backwards to you -- allow me to continue...I don't believe that this allows anyone to copy that material and use it for their own profit but I do think that the decision to monetize IP ought to be a global one.Take for example this whole idiocy over publishing rights for TV and books...If an individual or company decides to sell a book/video then they ought to be required to sell it globally -- not artificially chop up the globe into chunks that are free to set their own prices and availability.Dave's review of the Kindle Fire was a perfect example of this stupidity -- most of the "free" content and services that were offered with the device could not be delivered because they are "not available in your country" -- due to licensing restrictions.If a copyrighted work is available for sale *anywhere* then it ought to be available for sale *everywhere* and the creator can't bitch and moan if people pirate that work simply because they choose not to sell it in a particular region.In short -- you can't be depriving someone of revenues by using their IP if they're not actually selling that IP anyway -- can you?Of course this doesn't have much to do with Photonicinduction's situation but is something that needed stating.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 07:16:30 pm
content: as iv told countless clients regarding information securityonce its out its out the bagrsa guys call it 'information wants to be free'

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 08:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: RCMR on January 10, 2012, 06:53:58 pmFair point,but by stating this, you imply that IP is a commodity i.e. a common good which has the same or near the same value regardless of who produced it or where it was sold. Which is true of course for all YouTube videos and what you say applies.On the other hand I have a bone to pick with the term "intellectual property" itself.First of all most of the stuff out there is not really intellectual. A footage of a cat jumping inside a box is property but it's hardly intellectual. Yes it has entertainment value and there is a certain amount of work going into creating it but that's all. This is a commodity an as long as we have cats and cameras we will have abundant supply of it.Secondly the notion that the intellect of an author, his wit and creativity can ever be reduced to property and made subject of commerce is insulting. What is intellectual in IP should be forever part of it's author above and beyond the vagaries of trade just like human rights are, indelible and nontransferable.All of this is off topic of course.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 09:26:35 pm
content: QuoteProposition 037 of Prof. Wark's A Hacker Manifesto (not to be confused with Mentor's Conscience of a Hacker aka The Hacker Manifesto). The italicized line leads into discussion of the vectoralist intellectual property abstraction. Very relevant literature on the subject for anyone who cares.

author: Ajahn Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 09:55:36 pm
content: Quote from: sonicj on January 10, 2012, 11:20:39 am+1, especially knowing he's really trying to move forward responsibly, and start a life of his own. I was disappointed I wasn't able to get one of his branded T-shirts or butane lighters.Heh, can you imagine, if shit hit the fan for him, and he put that stack of DVDs of the original material up on eBay? We could argue how much he'd actually get for them, virtually irrelevant in my eyes, but you can be sure they'd garner a LOT of interest!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 10:24:27 pm
content: Quote from: slateraptor on January 10, 2012, 09:26:35 pmThe paragraph above sounds quite muddy and "wordy" to me but this one from Wikipedia clears up the things:QuoteWard seems to agree with me except his zeitgeist is six years ahead of mine

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 07:33:51 pm
content: Quote from: alm on January 10, 2012, 06:06:29 amI have no sympathy for him. He decided to upload the videos and allow people to watch them for free in the first place.He shouldn't whine when people repost his videos nor be bitter when people copy his lame ideas and make money from them. He's just annoyed at himself for being too stupid to figure out a way to make money from his videos in the first place.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 11:19:17 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 13, 2012, 07:33:51 pmRubbish. He has every right to expect that his copyright content he went to a LOT of trouble to produce is not re-uploaded and/or used in ways he does not approve of.You understand this a lot better when you are a content producer.QuoteIt's no-one's place to say what he should and shouldn't be bitter about.A lot of emotion goes into producing content like this.Dave.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 11:55:33 pm
content: I guess it depends which side of the fence you sit on.In the world today of anti-copyright, some people believe that, something should become public if it has been available to the public previously.I'm not saying i completely agree with it, just that its definitely a common viewpoint and there is some wisdom to it.If technology existed that allowed you to replay your memories of watching something previously the mpaa would probably try and stop you on grounds of copyright.Hehe... then you'd have movie cinemas erasing your memory of the movie afterwards. All you get to keep is the memory of if you enjoyed it or not.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 12:12:44 am
content: Quote from: Psi on January 13, 2012, 11:55:33 pmIf it were some large corporation attempting to maximize its profits by swindling customers, I'd agree. But we're talking about a single creative mind without the backing of hot-shot lawyers and a multi-billion dollar industry. Who knows...it might just have to do with threats of reprisal from his employer. I feel like choice of action really comes down to whether you respect the guy or not; from a professional aspect, I find it difficult not to, especially consider that he has provided free entertainment to the world at the cost of his own free time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 12:56:15 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on January 14, 2012, 12:12:44 amYes, and that's what many people who don't produce content often find hard to understand.Once you become a content producer your perspective tends to change a bit, and you really begin to respect people who produce content.Like many online content producers PhotonicInduction is being quite generous. He doesn't care if you download his stuff and keep it for personal use and archiving, nor does he care if you use parts of his video for compilations or critique etc (with suitable attribution). But hedoescare when someone re-uploads his entire video or content. That is not respecting the authors work, or adding to the value of the work and the community, it's just ripping off your work and distributing it in a way that the content owner has no control over. And that is all he is asking, that no one does that.I've recently had several people rip off my videos and re-upload to youtube, hoping to get hits and monetise it etc. That is not on, and their channels will get shut down for it.And like PhotonicInduction, I have no problem with people ripping my youtube videos and keeping for personal use and archiving etc. But if you make that content available to the public, or re-upload it etc then that's when we have a problem. And almost every content producer I know feels the same way.Dave.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 12:47:05 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 13, 2012, 11:19:17 pmYou're right from a legal perspective but from a moral one I disagree.And by the way, I don't care if anyone copies anything I've posted on the Internet, sells it, gets rich from it or re-uploads it, if it disappears.Face it, if you upload it and allow the whole world to access it for free it's really no longer yours, whatever the copyright laws say, there's fuck all you can do about it.I'm not anti-copyright, I don't have anything against buying books, software, etc. but I just think copyright law is being horribly abused.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 04:25:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 14, 2012, 12:47:05 pmI agree with you that copyright law is being abused by some, but that doesn't mean the intent to protect creators is invalid. The fact that it's easy to steal and difficult to protect your intellectual property doesn't mean that it's OK for it to become de facto public domain. The only thing that has changed over the last few decades in the format of intellectual property is that it has become digital. No one used to buy a bestseller book and reprint it for sale - it just didn't happen because the amount of work needed for a very small amount of profit wasn't worth the risk. Pirated music only happened in foreign markets where it was easy to get away with. What has changed is that a whole multi-generational culture has developed that believes it's acceptable to share materials that they didn't create with unlimited numbers of people.I firmly believe that the people who think it's OK to spread other people's IP are those who have never created any of their own. I lost a business because an employee sold all my recipes to a competitor who was then able to attract my entire customer base away. That business and my unique recipes took me 10 years to develop but it took less than 3 months to lose it all, with a large amount of debt to boot. You could make the argument that my recipes were made public since I prepared everything in view of my customers, but that doesn't mean they were public domain, and my life was changed forever by that loss.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 04:59:23 pm
content: slightly off topic from PhotonicInduction but not the reposting content thing.I would love to know what Dave thinks about this particularly, as some people know I do music as I'm sure loads of you dobut often I like to put an audio excerpt of something I find funny or relevant to the lyrical content of the song at the beginning. would you be okay for people to use some of your content in this mannerby the way, my phone has a cut from your audiophoolery video on it - so now when I get a text alert it says "you've got to be shitting me" which usually suits what the text message says and makes people laugh

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 10:45:03 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 13, 2012, 07:33:51 pmwhen you upload to you tube and use their service you agree and have to state that you own the copyright to it, and that is a legal contract you enter by using the service. As he said, quite responsibly the videos he made were for a certain audience and he now would rather not be the indirect cause of people harming themselves trying to copy him. Those who are uploading his videos again should now feel responsible if someone is injured. The thing he keeps repeating is that things were getting out of hand, it looks like the main reason to remove them was health and safety among other things, and he did point out in his first request that they be removed that he can explain the technicalities (like how he stayed safe) those re-uploading his work cannot.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 03:46:02 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 14, 2012, 12:47:05 pmThe problem with that perspective is that if content producers find that their hard work is being used by others to effectively dilute or reduce their own earnings from it -- they will simply stop creating that content.Then we all loose -- because a lot of the good content dries up and disappears.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 04:32:45 am
content: It resembles radio broadcasting in some ways. As long as you broadcast you have listener base and based on that you have some weight, a charisma if you like, in the community. As soon as you stop broadcasting you are a thing of the past and nobody takes you seriously any more. Its a perishable thing.Besides we all know very well that there is no mechanism to stop his videos being re-uploaded by teens. If he stayed on YouTube he could have imposed himself somewhat. He can not impose anything on youtube from outside youtube. Hoping that he can is childish. If he was worried about safety he could have dedicated some videos entirely on safety - problem solved. His problem is not safety, there is another problem safety is just an excuse.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 04:45:09 am
content: Quote from: PStevenson on January 14, 2012, 04:59:23 pmI have no problem with that. In fact I find it flattering, as I suspect most content producers would.Only once you reach the level of corporate bureaucrat or lawyer do you reach that level analness.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 05:02:52 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 14, 2012, 12:47:05 pmShow me what you have produced and tell me how much time, money, energy, and emotion you have put into it, and then I'll be surprised at you being the only content producer I know who actually thinks that way.I'm willing to bet you haven't produced anything worthy of being copied or exploited, same as most people who think that way.It's only when you spend a lot of time and money producing content do you start to understand that it's simply not a nice thing to do someone.Would you REALLY be ok with someone copying your content, declaring THEY are the ones who created it, and take all the fortune and glory, and not be the least bit upset about it? Really?QuoteGreat attitude, thanks.So I should just shut down my blog now right, and all the peopel working on open source harwdare and software should just stop as well. After all, what's the point of you can't even expect some attribution for your trouble?It's that kind of attitude that makes content producers shut up shop and not produce or release anything. Or worse, push them into the whole legal minefield where everyone loses except the lawyers.I give my content away for free, and I won't sue you for anything or be anal rententive about using my content in an appropriate way. And all that I ask in return is that people don't try and exploit it in ways I don't approve of. Is that too much to ask?QuoteYes, it can be.But how is that being "horribly abused" in this case?A producer of Youtube videos has simply asked that people respect his wishes and not publicly re-upload his content and exploit it.Dave.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 09:47:20 am
content: Hero999, I'm assuming you are thinking of copyright abuse that usually takes in a form of rival entities attempting to mute other people's expression through copyright laws. The concept of "fair use" is usually never recognised in those cases and DMCA take downs are issued irresponsibly. Or perhaps you are thinking about the shady tactics behind MPAA style copyright enforcement, and digital rights management. That kind of copyright abuse is rife on youtube and in the P2P world, sure. But I'm not sure whether any of that is relevant to the topic at hand. Dave et al. is simply talking about preventing others from profiting on your work directly; that is, people actually making money, or building "credibility" by exploiting material that is not theirs. In my opinion, that is a fair stance to take.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 09:57:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 05:02:52 amJack Pot.Nothing more, nothing less. Forget copyright laws etc. He just asked for something politely. AFAIK he could be in trouble if those videos keep coming up to yt. If users respects him there will be no need for him to try copyright tricks.If users showed more respect to others (general speaking)...Alexander.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 10:28:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 05:02:52 amAre the people uploading those vids attributing them to themselves? I'd expect them to attribute the work to Photonicinduction. Doesn't he have an intro that shows his name/logo, like your 'This is Dave Johnes from EEVblog' intro? In that case they're not claiming they creating it, and are not taking fortune nor glory. As for someone copying your content and making profit from it, are you familiar with the many open source and creative commons licenses, most of which permit commercial use? Do you hear the Linux developers complaining that Google makes money from Android without them getting anything? Are the FreeBSD people upset that Apple sells all those Macs and iPhones/iPads running their code without acknowledging them (it's probably somewhere in the fine print that nobody reads)? Are the Arduino people upset about other people profiting from Arduino clones?Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 05:02:52 amHow is simply uploading a video to Youtube exploitation? Unless they have a partner status, they won't even see a dime from all the views. I guess you could argue that Youtube is exploiting the videos, since they earn money from ad views without giving the creator anything.Quote from: firewalker on January 15, 2012, 09:57:32 amYou can ask politely for people not to be a smartass and stop emailing you about every insignificant mistake, but that's not going to happen either.Quote from: firewalker on January 15, 2012, 09:57:32 amThat would be mostly a consequence of his own actions, just like people posting dumb things to Usenet when they were young which are now easily found through Google Groups. Or the guy that climbed the antenna without harness who on second thought didn't want OSHA to see it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 11:09:46 am
content: Quote from: alm on January 15, 2012, 10:28:00 amThe two can be mutually exclusive (I meant to use "or" instead of "and"), in the case of just a fan re-uploading a video without knowing about the authors wishes for example.But once people know that the authors wish is to have their videos/content removed and not uploaded again unless they approve it, then everyone should respect that.Why? Because it's the right thing to do, nothing more, nothing less.There is no way to argue this point without making yourself look like a selfish SOB in my book.Respecting people's wishes about stuff they have created (and not released under some license etc, and hence retain all rights) is a basic social courtesy.And like I've said, when you are a content creator then you will come to value this even more.When people don't follow these basic courtesies, as RCMR said, then there is less incentive for people to create the work, and we all lose.In the case of PhotonicInduction, I think he chose a poor option. He should have just deleted all the videos, but kept the channel and keep up the video permanently explaining it all and asking people to respect his wishes. Throwing away a partner channel with 20,000 subs seems like a silly thing to do to me. I would have kept it in the bag just in case.Any issue of releasing under open source licenses etc is an entirely different ball game.As for my own videos recently, they are not fans who are uploading them, they are accounts set up by people who for some reason wants to exploit successful videos. Presumably to gain the views needed in order to eventually get a partner account.And why do they use my videos and other lesser know videos instead of The Old Spice guy?, because the sneaky bastards have discovered that they are less likely to be busted by Youtube's automated rights management detection thingo. The likely even have some automated way to pick videos and copy them.Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 11:54:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 11:09:46 amI agree that the decent thing to do is not to repost his videos against his wishes, but that doesn't mean it's smart of the author to rely on this to avoid losing their job. If I remember the tower climbing guy correctly, he requested it to be taken down, the original poster obliged, but the cat was already out of the bag and multiple sites had reposted the video. In the end he just let it go. So if your job depends on you not posting (apparently) dangerous videos, don't post those videos.Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 11:09:46 amHow far does this go in your opinion? Do you consider following any software EULA, like terms forbidding its use for developing competing products, or forbidding benchmarking, to be a basic social courtesy? What about restrictions on physical objects. Would you respect it if Fluke asked people not to post teardowns of their products, even though you bought it with your own money? What if Agilent asked not to use their equipment to develop competing test & measurement equipment, like a power supply?Some countries recognize moral rights in addition to copyrights, but not in the US for example. I'm not sure about Australia, I think it's more of a civil law thing.Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 11:09:46 amIt shows that there are a large number of people that don't mind their work being copied and profited from by others.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 01:20:32 pm
content: Quote from: alm on January 15, 2012, 11:54:40 amThere is absolutely no evidence that is the case at all.QuoteThey are separate issues entirely, so I won't blur the lines by moving over and commenting on those.Our societies operate on the rule of law, but that is not the be-all-end all. Otherwise we'd have lawyers and judges at 20 paces for every petty dispute, either that, or complete anarchy.Neither of those is nice, so our societies also operate using various social conventions, etiquette, respect etc, and these can often overrule any theoretical legal issues in many situations. They can also work in the other direction and impose restrictions above and beyond what people can do theoretically by law as well.Take for example electronics magazine project publications that have been going for longer than any one of us were born. There are some basic unwritten and likely legally un-enforceable rules that people in the industry follow. You don't have to follow them of course, but most people do, because it's all about respect, playing nice, good karma, reputation (good or bad), or what-have-you.How it works is someone gets a project published, and this is what happens, and what most authors would expect:- The project effectively becomes "open", very similar or the same as what we now call OSHW (but with out the legal license crap). But that doesn't mean anyone is free (morally/socially) to do whatever they want with your work.- People are free to build upon the design and publish variations on it themselves 9thus also earning money from it), without asking the author. But of course it's common courtesy to at least let them know, just in case you are working on the same thing, or can help each other out etc.In any case, attribution is expected.- Anyone is legally free to sell projects kits, but it's considered bad form to do so if you are competing against the author who is already selling kits.- It's fine for the established PCB providers to supply the bare board without asking.- If the author isn't selling kits, then you are allowed to sell kits. But it's expected that you contact the author first to ask if it's ok. If it's not, you respect that and don't, but that's almost never the case. The author is happy that you asked so generally gives you the ok. They are often happy to endorse your product as well. Wow, what a bonus, all because you asked nicely!Perhaps a small royalty to the original designer is a nice gesture too.- The author naturally still has copyright on this, so you don't go blatantly copying it, it's not legally good, and it's not a nice thing to do either. So you don't go upload whole copies of the article or schematic etc on your own site (or publish in another magazine, say overseas) without asking the author first.And all of that complex stuff "just happens" and has been happily working for a very long time now, and very few if ever legal disputes arise, because everyone generally "plays nice" and has respect for the original author and their wishes.When the respect for the original author breaks down, the system breaks down, and no one will want to play any more.If you ask me nicely (and people have) for example to use one of my videos for some purpose, then I almost always say "no problem", because you showed respect by asking. But if another person does the same thing without asking, then I may very well get quite pissed off and send you take-down notice, because you didn't show me any respect and couldn't be bothered asking, you just selfishly took it. That's can make me sad and mad, and I'm sure almost all authors and content producers like Photonic Induction feel the same way.QuoteFluke have in fact given me a take-down notice for one of my videos which showed a schematic that was in fact (unknown to me) stamped with "not for distribution" or some such (because of the stupid US military government laws or whatever).They very politely explained the situation and asked if I would remove it, and of course I very politely complied, even though it took me some time, messed up my upload order, killed all my current view count and URL etc.If theirs lawyers had sent a nasty letter instead then that would have got my heckles up and I would have likely told them to shove it just be being suck dicks for getting lawyers involved. But of course they didn't they played the game correctly and I happily respected their wishes.As for your original posed question, if Fluke (or anyone) asked everyone to blanket not post teardowns of any of their products, then of course that's not playing the industry game correctly. It would instantly make them them into a bunch of stuck-up anal-retentive idiots, and everyone would of course rebel, including me.QuoteThat's just insane. That simply does not happen in this industry.Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 11:09:46 amIt shows that there are a large number of people that don't mind their work being copied and profited from by others.Yes, but it's an entirely different game.I have released stuff under various open source license and also "just given it away" without any care if people profit from that. But that is not the same for all my content.For example, my latest power supply design is CC, so I expect everyone to follow that license in whatever they do. As well as expecting people to follow some basic unwritten industry courtesies as well.But my PSU videos are not released under any such license, I have given away no rights on those videos. So it is not ok for you to do anything with those videos without asking me first. And I would expect people to show me some basic respect by asking if they want to do anything with it. Play nice and I'll almost certainly happily let you. But if you don't show me any respect then I am not going to like you very much...It's like my recent incident with the Autotrax EDA website. The guy blatantly copied all my PCB tutorial content onto the main page of his site, without attribution, a link-back, or anything. He simply ignored and removed my copyright notice in the PDF and ripped off the content.So I sent him a take-down notice and he complied within 24 hours, but never sent a reply saying "sorry about that, won't do it again", nothing.So not only did he piss me off by doing that in the first place, but pissed me off even more by not having the courtesy to reply and say sorry, in which case I would have forgiven him, and hey I might even be in a position to promote his PCB tool in the future. But no, he chose to make an enemy of me by not showing me any basic courtesy.And the funny thing is, I would have given him permission to do it if he just simply asked, as I have done with others.See what happens when people don't respect the authors? Imagine what kind of industry we'd have is everyone did this and had this attitude?I give my PCB tutorial away for free, and all I ask in return is that you keep the original PDF intact with my name and info in it. Is that too much to ask as an author? If you ask nicely I'll you do more even with it.The same thing has happened again with a school in the UK. This time they kept the PDF intact, but removed my name and copyright and are passing it off as their own material.What incentive do I have to continue to produce material for the benefit of all, when people can't even follow basic common courtesy?No wonder PhotonicInduction threw in the towel and is pissed off.And as I've said, the only people who understand this are the content producers.Dave.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 03:10:27 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 05:02:52 amWhen I get the energy I occasionally upload a project to the site linked below. It may not be as good as anything you've done but I think most of it is more worthwhile than photoinductaion's stuff (maybe not so entertaining but I'd say it's more educational). I'm personally happy for people to copy it and may money from it. If you don't think it's worthwhile then that's your opinion.http://www.silicontronics.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=5This is only the tip of the iceberg: most of my content is in forum posts and attachments I've created over the years, mostly on other sites where more people ask for help. Whenever I post something on the Internet, I accept that I'm effectively releasing it into the public domain, that it may be copied by others and that trying to defend my copyright would cost me more time, money and worry than it's really worth.I know about copyright law and think it's wrong to go pirate software, music, films etc. but that's not what's going on here. Photoinduction created some videos which he received zero money for, then later decided to try to remove them from the Internet but some people thought they are cool and decided to re-upload them so he's lost nothing. It's not like he was selling DVDs, had a pay site or made loads of money from advertising and is still doing so.QuoteI'd take that as a complement - imitation is the highest form of flattery and in this case photoinduction claims wasn't making any money so he's not gaining anything from feeling bitter about it.Quote from: RCMR on January 15, 2012, 03:46:02 amWhat evidence do you have that everyone will do that? It's true that may be the case for some people but saying everyone will stop making content because people will copy is not true.I'm sure there are plenty of people who spend time creating content for fun and don't care if others use it.What about before copyright law was invented? Are you saying there was no such thing as art, music plays etc. back then? William Shakespeare didn't get any royalties from others performing his plays but it didn't stop him from creating them.Quote from: PetrosA on January 14, 2012, 04:25:53 pmYou can't always directly compare IP with phyical property. For example take the following two scenarios:1) Someone steals a consignment of multimeters from you worth £100,000.2) You develop some software which you sell for £100 per licence and someone uploads it to bittorrent and 1000 people download it for free.In case one, you've lost 100,000, no argument over that.In case 2 you can't say you've lost £100,000 because that's assuming everyone who downloaded the said software would've paid for it in the first place.Piracy isn't always bad for content creators for example, if it's students who pirated your software the may become familiar with it and actually buy it later on in life on behalf of their employer. CAD software companies invariably don't care about students pirating their software for this reason and Microsoft don't worry about the Chinese piracy because they know they'll make more money when China finally decides to respect IP more.QuoteNo what's changed is the cost involved in transferring information has gone down drastically and now approaches zero. Before the Internet it was very costly to distribute content in books and on tape, vinyl CD etc. now it can be transmitted very cheaply across the Internet. The only attitude that's changed is some people don't see the true cost in creating the said content so they think it's fine to copy it.QuoteIn the case of the recipes you're right of course because they were a trade secret but if they were in the public domain and not patented it would've been different.Quote from: Simon on January 14, 2012, 10:45:03 pmI concur, regardless of whether he feels his copyright should be respected or not, reposting his dangerous videos is irresponsible.EDIT:Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 01:20:32 pmOh by the way, I think you were right in both of those cases, mainly because they were blatantly dishonest more than anything else.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 04:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 15, 2012, 03:10:27 pmI think this is an interesting point. Most of the re-uploads were done by Photonic's fans. As far as I could tell, none uploaders did this to rip him off, it was more of a sign of support, so one could regard this as an exceptional circumstance. Still, it was in Photonic's right to ask them not to do it. As to whether that was a realistic request, it's another issue altogether.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 09:20:57 pm
content: dave is right herethe uk at the moment is in a strange limbo with regards to copyrightthe bbc seem to have despite them 'pretending' to unbiasedtake this for example despite braking no uk laws a judge see it fit for breaking a american law in theunited kingdom warrants a extradition to be charged for it in the united stateshttp://torrentfreak.com/tvshack-admin-can-be-extradited-to-us-judge-rules-120113/wore still is the bbc take on thishttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-16544335

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 10:15:17 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 15, 2012, 03:10:27 pmYou don't get it - HE CARES what people do with his stuff.It is entirely his right to do that as the content creator.Just because you don't care, or some other people don't care doesn't mean it's ok to not respect his wishes.The industry courtesy, and basic society etiquette with this sort of stuff is to respect someone wishes, not to piss all over them because you happen to think different.In my experience, as a content producer you are in the small minority in thinking that way.If he didn't say anything at all, then it could be argued that it's not bad etiquette to simply re-upload his material as a fan. In fact I'd say that's a reasonable default position.If I walked away from all my material (or some material as I have) then I would think the same way, I wouldn't care any more.But given that he has now made it clear he wants you to respect his copyright in that way, then all argument is off the table. Going against his wishes becomes bad etiquette, no question, no argument.It's got nothing to do with whether he loses something or not, or trying to compare it with other cases etc, it's simply about respecting what he wants.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 10:32:30 pm
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on January 15, 2012, 04:14:31 pmTrying to request that people respect your copyright is of course never 100% realistic, some people will always do whatever they want.But it certainly is reasonable to ask fans to respect your wises.His mistake was not making this clear up front, because doing what he did is a highly unusual and confusing case.Dave.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2012, 06:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 15, 2012, 10:15:17 pmAll right, I now see your point.I just disagree. I think it's unreasonable for him to remove all of his online videos and expect no one to re-upload them. To me it's like an author writing and publishing a book, then deciding it's a bad idea but not only being content with stopping the printing press, the arrogant dick orders all libraries to destroy their copies of the said book.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2012, 06:51:04 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 09, 2012, 12:31:04 amTurn comments off, refuse to communicate.There is a reason for my footer. I refuse to communicate with certain kinds of people. Interestingly, refusing to communicate with this kind of people winds them up to no end, as you can see with PrivateFluffer.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2012, 09:27:55 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 17, 2012, 06:42:00 pmNot a good analogy. He is not asking people destroy copies of their videos. He is just asking that you simply stop uploading them publicly. i.e. akin to printing and distributing new copies of the book.He almost certainly doesn't care if you shared them privately, i.e. loaned the book to someone else for their enjoyment.Yes, it's unrealistic for him to expect that everyone in the world comply with his wishes, there are always dicks that won't care.But surely you have to agree that the guy has the right to ask that people don't do it, even if it's not 100% realistic?Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2012, 09:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on January 17, 2012, 06:51:04 pmI don't usually don't communicate with them, I delete and block them.Turning of comments entirely isn't a wise thing to do if you care about growing your channel. So you take the good with the bad.They don't bother me much, I'm just pointing out that I get them, like most popular Youtubers do. I find them rather humerus actually.Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2012, 10:08:16 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on January 17, 2012, 06:51:04 pmThat is a bit like refusing to drive, because you know some people don't always use their turn indicators. their is no need spite yourself by do without the advantages of potentially good communications,doing so just let the lunatics score up a win.QuoteLetting the world know you are a bitter & troubled soul?QuoteOn this I'd quite agree and using ignore and ideas like your footer can help. Infuriating the likes of PrivateParts is something to be encouraged! I've found the ignore tool a good way of eliminating his dribble from view.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2012, 06:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 17, 2012, 09:27:55 pmAll right, fair enough, I suppose that was a bad analogy. A better one is someone who deletes their forum account, along with all of their posts. Imagine if someone here with a few thousand posts did that? Think of all the threads which wouldn't make sense. In the case it's already happened to some threads here which link to photoinduction's youtube account.

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2012, 07:18:47 pm
content: He did start a new channel calledPhotonicinductionArcHowever it seems that this is mainly just to confirm his initial decision to discontinue his You Tube activity once and for all. He will be doing one more video after finishing a project he's always aimed to complete.... His hydrogen reactor.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2012, 12:42:03 pm
content: I wonder if his disappearance may actually make the 'brand' bigger - like when a record hits the charts when an artist diies...I like this one, which I think comes under 'fair use'.... (NSFW, obviously!)

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 08:37:20 pm
content: Via YouTube:Quoteyay!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 08:54:58 pm
content: Wohoosomebody with no love for cameras...

author: PedroDiogo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 09:00:05 pm
content: I don't know if I'm alone on this one but am I the only one thinking this guy is a bit mentally unstable?Seriously, not even talking about the stuff he did on his channel, after deleting all videos he uploaded a 3 more videos talking shit and now he's talking about coming back?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 09:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDiogo on January 25, 2012, 09:00:05 pmI like him slightly mad, thank you very much. Better mad than dull.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 10:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDiogo on January 25, 2012, 09:00:05 pm"Talking shit"? I think he explained quite well the reasons and motivation for leaving and taking down the videos. He also hinted at there being reasons beyond those he has talked about.What's wrong with coming back? Who are you to say he can't do that?Dave.

author: PedroDiogo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 10:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 25, 2012, 10:02:52 pmI'm sorry if I offended you, I understand if you share some of his thoughts about this, but I still can't agree with what he's doing.From his new videos I got the impression he was really fed up with Youtube and was going to enjoy life because we - the viewers - didn't deserve the effort he put on his videos.Now after 20 days (!?) he says he wants to come back and do it all again like nothing ever happened. Sorry but to me this seems like a big game.I'm just a viewer and if he wants to come back, please do, but the least he can do is be honest with the people who watch his channel and made him popular in the first place.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 10:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDiogo on January 25, 2012, 10:32:27 pmyou are taking his statement way out of context! he's looking for a camera & editing crew to offset the workload.... im sure hes just as fed up with the post production process as he was 3 weeks ago.-sj

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 10:55:13 pm
content: QuoteThat is why I can't understand why he shut down his previous partner channel. It makes the possibility of making money with any new venture much harder.But maybe he has something up his sleeve and will be getting funding from somewhere else?Dave.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2012, 11:24:00 pm
content: I always seemed to me that he shut down the channel without giving it enough thought. Yeah, he had his (valid) reasons but I couldn't help but feel like he regretted it almost instantly.I've ran a small site for nearly 8 years now and at times you just get so pissed off with the constant negativity towards anything you do. With a far greater audience and how personal a video blog can be I can't imagine the pressures of it!

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2012, 09:02:11 pm
content: Just ran across this on YouTube:Photonicinduction Copyright

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2012, 10:26:19 pm
content: He says, when the time is right, he'll upload the popular videos with more technical discussion and health and safety information which I think is brilliant news.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2012, 12:48:14 am
content: Quote from: Chet T16 on January 25, 2012, 11:24:00 pmI think he might have done it in a rage