Hello everyone, I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 05:03:52 am
content: Hello everyone, I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope, with a sampling rate of 4GS, 1M ohm/50 ohm impedance, active probe interface, 256Mpts storage depth, and a 15.6-inch large screen. The final price is expected to be around $800 after passing through my agent. I am the developer of DPOS350P and DPOX180H

author: EvgenyG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 07:42:49 am
content: Any information about screen resolution? Is it going to be something decent or just stretched 1024x600?

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 11:58:25 pm
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 15, 2025, 05:03:52 amat 800 bucks you'll need to include decoders, bode plot, waveform generator, more than basic fft, xy mode, better cursor measurement, etc because there are serious competition in that price range. Bandwidth, sample rate, and deep memory are not enough arguments for selling a scope. good and functional features are important.You also need to give continuous support and fix bugs. For example dpox180H has some annoying bugs with cursor measurement and don't work on fft, and some other bugs with timebase. Since this was a cheap scope its like you get what you pay, but for 800 bucks we want better support.and we are waiting for reviews about DPOS350P before decide to buy one

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 06:57:46 am
content: Quote from: ptluis on April 15, 2025, 11:58:25 pmAbove 200-250MHz is impractical for normal probing. 1GHz is more for spectrum analyzers.Given that devices like NanoVNA exist for $40 it might be better to lower the bandwidth and concentrate on the software side - make it the ultimate electronics/development tool.

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 08:40:35 am
content: I wish you well with it, and look forward to seeing the fruits of your work.However, I will also echo some of the points made above. At that price point, your product will have stiff competition from well-established vendors and a 1Ghz front-end won't be sufficient differentiator alone. IMHO.From a product management perspective, I would study carefully the threads on this site (and others) for the similarly or lower priced offerings from Rigol and Siglent. For everything they have 'right', you'll see much debate about what is considered 'wrong' and open to improvement, and features which are considered valuable to have but which are lacking.And as also been said previously, at this price point support and reputation are important. Few people are going to spend that amount of money on a device that they have no confidence that the manufacturer will support effectively, over a long period. You'll need to have resources to commit to a responsive, scalable support operation in order to really succeed. Rigol, for example, for all their relative size as a business, struggle here and it is noticed by the users of their products, many of whom are unhappy at the speed with which serious bugs are resolved, to the extent that it colours their future purchasing decisions. If you can do better, and build a good scope, then there is money left on the table for you. If you can't, and it is just yourself that will be the source of all support, then I think a better option would be for you to open source the software, which in itself would be a product differentiator.Finally, being devil's advocate - do you really think a screen of the size you are proposing is a benefit? On first impression, it seems that it will mean that the footprint of your scope will be very large, which isn't considered a positive. However, if you can justify that in terms of extra functionality (e.g. more than 4 channels, large logic analyser/MSO channel count) then it may be the correct choice.Good luck.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 09:31:34 am
content: The Haasoscope Pro (12 bit) sits in a similar price bracket and already exists. But this is a USB scope.IMHO having a big screen is a plus. It allows to show lots of details of a signal and have on-screen measurements without taking too much space away from showing the traces. As others mentioned: in the US $800 price bracket people expect a device which works. In this aspect it is better to have less functions which work perfectly than having many functions which are broken or incomplete. When MicSig started out with their tablet scopes they went this route: only release functions which have been thouroughly tested. Nothing is worse than a tool which doesn't work as expected when you need it the most.

author: 44kgk1lkf6u
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 01:38:21 pm
content: On a fast oscilloscope, I would like to see the samples not being limited to integer multiples of the sample interval when displayed.Say I may want to measure the delay between a clock signal and a data signal. The number can depend on the bit sequence. So I want a range. On the Tektronix TDS500, I can enable equivalent time sampling and the DPO mode. I can use cursors to measure the width of the trace. The equivalent time sampling rate is 250 GS/s. I get a resolution of 4 ps. On the newer Tektronix DPO4000, the equivalent time sampling feature has been dropped. It is probably related to them now doing the trigger stuff on the digital side. They could have made the traces shift based on how close the samples just before and after triggering are to the threshold. They decided not to. As a result, the traces are at least as wide as the sample rate of 200 ps.I look forward to seeing a review when the product comes out. Maybe you should try to convince the company to send it to people who like to review these things such as The Signal Path or Hugoneus.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 08:44:04 pm
content: Quote from: 44kgk1lkf6u on April 16, 2025, 01:38:21 pmThis has nothing to do with samplerate. Looking at the datasheet for the DPO4000, there is no trigger jitter spec. Usually this means it is quite bad as you have experienced. It is possible to do a good (sub sample interval resolution) trigger position in the digital domain but it takes extra processing if the hardware doesn't support it. A TDS500 series is an entirely different beast even though it has an analog trigger interpolator.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 10:22:17 pm
content: Quote from: NE666 on April 16, 2025, 08:40:35 amWhether it is a huge benefit or not, I think the main point is all other brands will charge a fortune for a scope with such a larger screen, same goes for 1GHz bandwidth: Magnova is $4k with 15" screen, Siglents cheapest 1GHz is around $7k.So its a good choice to at least push the envelope in some way. Otherwise there is no point at all in making yet another scope in the 200-500MHz range that won't compete at all.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 01:05:25 am
content: so far 2 running threads by the @op if i recall and nada he does not appear anymore and get some reality check ??

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 01:10:43 am
content: Yangyao, don't forget about triggers. Your previous scopes were poor in trigger options. An oscilloscope with many trigger options is very important. I am curious about your dpos350p and its functionality. From my point of view, it would be good if you improved the scopes based on the suggestions that all of us could give in this forum. For example, if the dpox180h has its annoying bugs fixed, the sales of this model will increase. I only bought one and that's it, if you improve the firmware, I and others will buy more. The same will happen with other scopes you create. I don't know why these devices are created and then abandoned when they could be improved and become best sellers. The way things are done when a new model is released, we, the buyers, always have the feeling of seeing a new device that is unfinished and sometimes useless. We still don't have any ideas or opinions about the dpos350p and you already want to create another oscilloscope gives the feeling that this model has already been abandoned. Do you understand my point of view?

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 03:27:48 am
content: Quote from: ptluis on April 15, 2025, 11:58:25 pmI don't know, for me the opposite is true. 1 GHz is the killer feature. Protocol decoders and FFT, bode plots, function generators, and XY mode are nice features on 100 MHz scopes. There are plenty of cheap 100 MHz scopes with good features sets. For frequency domain work above 100 MHz nano VNA is a better option.At 1 GHz I don't need any of that stuff. I just want it to be really good at capturing and displaying the waveform. That means good triggers, control over averaging, working cursors, and good pan and zoom navigation.I do agree about bug fixing and general quality. But a really solid implementation of the basic scope functionality combined with high bandwidth, sample rate, and memory for an affordable price is a win in my book.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 05:22:59 am
content: Without constant support, bug fixes, and constant improvement. There is no point in producing anything. And the answers (non-answers) of the given individual on this forum only confirm to me that it will be another Chinese piece of crap. (or is that the Chinese mentality)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 06:32:21 am
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 17, 2025, 05:22:59 amIf you don't like something simply don't buy it.If you don't like "Chinese crap" buy one of the world famous, top quality Slovakian scopes...Please, no politics, nationalism, derogatory comments of that sorts etc ....We have enough of that everywhere else.

author: EvgenyG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 06:54:02 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on April 17, 2025, 03:27:48 amI wonder if they would include 1Ghz rated probes as well for that price. Probably not.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 07:07:30 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on April 17, 2025, 06:32:21 amTrue, plenty of that going around and it does not help that you add some either.But it is a risk when a scope from a manufacturer with a somewhat bad reputation is costing 800 dollar. For a 100 dollar one might be tempted to give it a try, but probably not so much for 800 dollar, without knowing more about it. Someone claiming to create a scope, with the specs given in the first post, all on his own, does not bring me confidence. Creating proper hardware and software are two very different disciplines and not many are up to this task.Like someone else wrote here, it would be good if some independent reviewers were given the option to review such a new scope to the full. This means also delivering a proper active probe with it, to be able to test the full 1GHz bandwidth advertised. And for more confidence also the option to review the schematic as well as the source code of the software.I have not looked into the DPOS350P and DPOX180H scopes, so can't say if they have good hardware or software design. Based on the 1013D and 1014D models I lost faith in FNIRSI though.Edit: Another thing sprung to mind. In thispostthe OP claimed to not have control over the sales price, and that the price of the DPOS350P is much higher than he expected. So how can he claim here that it will be sold for 800 dollar.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 08:16:21 am
content: It all seems fake.The price and the promised features are very unbalanced.If I compare it with the Micsig MDO2504 which is over 1500 USD.+ what is the guarantee that if there are software errors in it, they will be fixed.They should have already sent a sample from the DPOS350P to Kerry Wong and the others for testing.Among the AliExpress buyers, there was someone who wrote that the -3dB is not available at 350MHz, without a picture of course.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 10:35:19 am
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on April 17, 2025, 08:16:21 amNo more answers from OP to defend himself. Well i think we all started to see how support will be on this new creation. All his posts smells like marketing unless his internet connection is somehow censured, one thing I immediately noticed when I've been in china.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 10:42:49 am
content: Give him a break please.Rome wasn’t built overnight.Some of us have other things to do than surfing on eevblog all day.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 12:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on April 17, 2025, 08:16:21 amWith Chinese test equipment make sure to test it before the return period is over and return it if it doesn't suit your needs. The worse mistake is to wait for software to be fixed. If it doesn't work out of the box, return it.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 12:47:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 17, 2025, 12:00:46 pmFTFY

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 02:40:40 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on April 17, 2025, 01:05:25 amHe didn't exactly get a warm welcome. A 15.6", 1GHz, tablet scope for $800 is ground breaking. At least an order of magnitude less than anything else like that. Yet 80% of responses here are aggressively negative.Frankly, I wouldn't blame him for walking away from this forum, giving the "finger" as he goes.Sometimes this a nasty place.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 02:44:04 pm
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on April 17, 2025, 08:16:21 amAre you sure they tested it correctly? 90% of videos I see on YT, the presenter has no clue how to do BW tests.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 03:17:52 pm
content: It was among the Aliexpress reviews, not YouTube.I copied the original text into Google Translate now and i didn't leave it to the Aliexpress translater.The reviewer complains that the charger doesn't charge it and that the probe that came with it isn't 350MHz. It seems like he didn't write anything about the device.Another review I found said that it's a toy, it has nothing to do with the word professional.None of the commenters shared a picture or video.But this is also subjective, because I think the Fnirsi stuff is garbage only a few is usable, and others say it's a treasure...A proper test video is needed.Based on the timestamp, it's not entirely true, after he didn't log in, the negative comments came after.I don't feel that the others' comments were so negative that he gave up the fight.He didn't even try to clarify the matter.I think he just didn't have time to respond yet, because he may have just received feedback about the DPOS350P and is fixing those bugs and correcting the software.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 03:22:18 pm
content: I think people are being impatient here. Do you really expect a product manufacturer to log in here 10 times a day? Complaining that he hasn't responded in a thread he started the day before the complaint was made isn't realistic.Don't get me wrong, I don't think very highly of Fnirsi, but, come on. 🤷

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 03:53:12 pm
content: It seems FNIRSI stuff can be hit and miss. For undisclosed reasons I have a LOT of FNIRSI stuff. Some of it works as declared with no bugs, others seem to be plagued with bugs. Some of those seem to get a lot of support, and some seem to get abandoned or ignored. I'm not sure what is behind this seeming inconsistency but I suspect that it has to do with outsourcing design and manufacture.The only thing I can say is that it does seem to be getting a bit better as time goes on. In other words, the ratio of acceptable products over unacceptable products is improving.One area that they really need to improve is in documentation. Sometimes they leave out really important topics and this leads to misunderstanding and claims that things do not work properly. They should not leave things undisclosed. For instance, there is a functional limitation in the new DSO-TC4 where the generator is limited to 1kHz or less while the scope is active, but there is no mention of this in the manual. It just says that the generator will produce frequencies from 0-50kHz. It will, but only when the scope is not active. to me, that a pretty serious omission that could certainly lead to frustration and misunderstanding.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 04:03:54 pm
content: Their business model is too similar to Rigol for my liking. They release a product, maybe support it (okay, that's already better than Rigol), then quickly abandon it and release a new version in a shinier housing.I have the DSO-TC3, and it's cute, but nothing about it made me feel like it was worth wasting more money on the DSO-TC4.I bought their P1 tester device to try it out, knowing well enough I would be disappointed by it. I wasn't disappointed by my expectations, as I was expectedly disappointed by the product. 😉

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 04:16:33 pm
content: Well, the are still actively supporting the LCR-P1. It is now pretty good although some people are still reporting problems with certain NPN transistors. I've not been able to reproduce those though. Maybe they will get it right.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 05:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 18, 2025, 03:53:12 pmI get the sense that the topic starter seems to be some kind of one-man-band designing / developing some of the products for Fnirsi. That could explain the hit & miss as some people (who do the design / development work) will be better at documentation & finishing a product compared to others. I find this an interesting business model though as Fnirsi does the marketing / branding and allows products to be mass marketed which would otherwise go unnoticed.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 05:10:44 pm
content: It does seem that way.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:26:26 am
content: Hello everyone, sorry, I have been busy with work recently and only have time to read the news today. I have assembled a R&D team, including hardware, software, FPGA, industrial design, and structural design. I am the team leader.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:28:16 am
content: The $800 is not my selling price, but my dealer's selling price. Because I know the price ratio of my dealer, I guess it is $800.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:31:38 am
content: At present, the price of the cheapest 1GHz oscilloscope in China is more than 5000 US dollars. A few hundred dollars is not expensive. Of course, it has complete functions.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:33:40 am
content: DPOX180H does have some problems. Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales are too terrible. The dealers sell it at a very high price. A handheld oscilloscope can't survive at this price. So I have given up on DPOX180H and haven't produced it for nearly a year.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:35:34 am
content: The active probe will not be included because the price of the oscilloscope should be reduced. However, the active probe is not expensive. The estimated price from the distributor is US$70 per probe with a 2GHz bandwidth. The lowest price of a 1GHz active probe on the market is around US$1,400.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:37:53 am
content: I admit that the memory depth of DPOS350P is not good, so there will be a 200Mpts memory depth version later. Also, the spectrum analyzer is not good, which is also affected by the memory depth.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:39:58 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 22, 2025, 09:35:34 amSAP1000 is 999 USD

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:40:14 am
content: You are right, 1GHz VNA will be better. I will make a desktop VNA later, 6GHz, of course the price is not expensive

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:41:33 am
content: There is no way, I can't lower my price. Usually my dealers charge 2.5 times the price I give them.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:46:01 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 22, 2025, 09:39:58 amI don't know why it's so low, but it's a whopping price compared to $70.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 09:50:20 am
content: your dealer is a crook

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:02:00 am
content: Thanks for the answers. Special approach to DPOX180. How do we know that the 350 that goes on sale won't end up the same or the new 1GHz. So release the source codes for DPOX180 so it can be fixed.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:19:36 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on April 22, 2025, 09:50:20 amAn uplift of 2.5 is quite regular.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:30:01 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 22, 2025, 09:33:40 amThanks for your time answering, the sales of the DPOX180H are terrible because of the bugs, it makes a nice scope useless except for some basic things. If you somehow solve the bugs and make it a useful device your sales increase. Alternatively like Atlan wrote you could share the source code since you abandon it, and let this community fix and improve the scope. For certain you will see sales increasing dramatically, I bet on this!

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:42:37 am
content: I find it rather shameless asking the source code.One should not interfere with someone else business plan or internal affairs.this is his IP.

author: tigrou
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:43:57 am
content: I feel like this oscilloscope is going to be "1 GHz bandwidth at all costs" (understand with lot of compromises).If so, why not (there is probably a market and people looking for that) but it should hold its promises (it should not be "a meh 1GHz" that is actually 300 Mhz)For anybody that does need high bandwidth, at that price, my guess is there will be better options.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 11:04:03 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 22, 2025, 10:42:37 amWhy? If the further development or upkeep has been abandoned, why not give owners the chance to improve on it themselves. It saves a lot of time for someone who wants to work on this thing, and if they are persistent enough it will be somewhat open sourced any way. Just look at the 1013D. All the secrets of that one have been revealed.And even though you say it is his IP, who knows where he got it from.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 12:13:20 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 22, 2025, 10:42:37 amShameless why? if the developer abandon the device! I'm free to ask don't i? If he doesn't want to share he will say it and I respect. He and the dealer only profit with that. There's no problem in asking, No big deal. Custom firmware is what makes hardware devices sell! If they don't sell they accumulate thousands of useless devices on warehouses and the investment doesn't return what they expected. I give you an example Riden RD6006 one of the best sellers, due to the custom firmware available from Unisoft user.But anyway you are free to disagree, just like I'm free to ask

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 12:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 22, 2025, 10:42:37 amThe business plan is obviously shit. But that must be a Chinese idea, otherwise I can't explain it. For example, the 1013D already has about 3 versions of the PCB, but to fix bugs in the software it's not. That doesn't seem like a good business plan to me, that's why I didn't buy a 703 or any other oscilloscope because the Chinese business plan is that they always buy new things with bugs. We definitely won't fix bugs......I hope that no one will write about spreading hatred here again like last time. I just wrote how things are. Chinese people are probably like that. I don't mean it as an insult.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 01:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 22, 2025, 09:33:40 amYou need to see the investment as a way to establish your company as a reliable brand people can count on. Not just look at sales only. That is short term thinking which will hurt you long term. If your reputation is poor, nobody is going to buy a more expensive product from you. If you want your 1GHz oscilloscope to sell well, you'll need to fix the DPOX180H first.

author: tigrou
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 01:17:27 pm
content: I can give you one explanation why some of those companies are reluctant to release the source (and the "secret sauce" in it) :They might be afraid to see even more clones hitting the market and eroding their sales (which is a misconception)If a company want to make a clone, it will happen, no matter what. It's especially true for cheap oscilloscopes. If someone design good hardware, provide great customer support and create a reputable trust (which lot of companies making cheap products often don't do) he shouldn't be afraid of others "stealing or copying". Chances are that open sourcing code be will be beneficial on the long term (bug fixes, customers contributing, guaranteed long term support, ...)Open source is something quite common in US companies (Google, Microsoft, VMware... are huge open source contributors) but that might not be the case in the East.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 03:29:19 pm
content: Let them keep the source code, but once they've made something and it's still for sale, they have to fix the bugs.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 03:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 22, 2025, 12:23:49 pmI think this has been done out of need or for saving costs. The first version used a FPGA from Altera and it might have been far cheaper for them to switch to the Anlogic AL3. The third revision now uses the Anlogic ELF2 version of the FPGA, because the AL3 seems to be discontinued.On the DPOX180H, I looked at the videos on youtube where the scope is opened up and it has the same base setup as the 1013D. The F1C100s in combination with an Anlogic ELF2 FPGA. The front end has been improved, but to what extend, I don't know.Based on the 60kpts of sample memory in the DPOS350P, my guess is that it uses the same MCU FPGA setup, which makes it a bit outdated MCU wise.So the question is what the plan is for the 1GHz scope promoted in this thread. Ok 200Mpts is very nice, but this makes it again in a different ball park, development wise. Is this new team up to the task.Edit: I forgot to mention, that I think the DPOX180H also uses the special IC, that is totally useless and not used in the 1013D open source firmware.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 04:35:06 pm
content: Quote from: tigrou on April 22, 2025, 01:17:27 pmI think you overrate open source. Open source software has to be seen as a unofficial collaboration between many parties to develop software which is NOT part of their core business. Firmware for a test instrument is pretty much core business and not something you want to share. In addition, most open source projects have a handful of people managing it. In case of an oscilloscope this will likely be one person who needs to get to grips with the existing code before being able to do anything useful. Assuming the source code is huge mess to begin with. And last but not least: who wants to work for free to benefit the manufacturer? Would you want to spend a couple of weeks working for free instead of getting paid?

author: tigrou
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 05:17:20 pm
content: I don't disagree with your arguments, however regarding the part :Quote from: nctnico on April 22, 2025, 04:35:06 pmPeople like this :https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/graphs/contributorshttps://github.com/chromium/chromium/graphs/contributorsNot all of them work at Microsoft or Google. Also, there are benefit of contributing to such repositories: learning, getting the job done (instead of waiting for the company to fix it), getting a job (look great on a resume), ...Workingdoes not means you will spend all your weekends on it. It might be just a couple of hours to fix some bugs or improve something that annoy you.There is pro and cons of going open source. There is also people who like it and people who are against it.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 06:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 22, 2025, 12:23:49 pmYou have absolute no insight whatsoever in his or their business plan, so the only shitty thing is pretending one does.It seems you are even wrong about why there are multiple hardware versions.If you don’t like “the Chinese businessplan”, then why don’t you simply stay away from it?

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 07:22:22 pm
content: 1GHz Why would anyone buy an $800 piece of crap that won't work properly? And in the case of low sales, that means it never will. If this seems normal to you, fine. It doesn't seem normal to me. Look at the Magnola oscilloscope, this is what product promotion should look like.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 08:06:45 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 22, 2025, 07:22:22 pmI don't know why you're wasting your time in this thread if it's not for you? There isn't much I like from Fnirsi, but I'm not going to spend my time shitting on every thread just because products that are better and more expensive exist. 🤷The Magnova is great, and has a nice price tag to match. Are you now going to go into every Keysight, Siglent, Rigol, and Tek threads to let them know which one you like best?

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 08:41:25 pm
content: Why are you trying to defend that disgusting business model? You are its advocate. Yes, with other brands there is a good chance that they will be updated during the life of the device. I won't have to write to them about that, because every normal thinking person expects it.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 08:55:24 pm
content: Again, there are plenty of bigger branches that produce one shots of devices and certainly the firmware that comes along with it.You don’t like that?Are their business plans also shit?Then move on, please.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:21:21 pm
content: As long as it works, it's fine. However, Chinese oscilloscopes don't work. And they don't even try to fix software errors, and they keep selling them anyway.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 10:42:32 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 22, 2025, 10:21:21 pmSo where are Siglent and Rigol made ? ...just to name 2.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 11:16:42 pm
content: Troll? A Chinese oscilloscope and an oscilloscope made in China are 2 different things. Is everything working as it should on the 703? On the 1013D in long mode it shows 50% less, should I continue about Chinese oscilloscopes. Do you need to make a troll out of yourself?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 11:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 22, 2025, 10:42:32 pmDon't say Rigol! You're proving his point. 😉😉

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 11:55:49 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 22, 2025, 08:41:25 pmI'm not their advocate; quite the contrary. I kinda like their DSO-TC3, which I call atoy. I've not yet been impressed by any of their products, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go cry about it in every thread. Maybe one day they'll develop something I'll enjoy. Who knows.Maybe this 1GHz scope will be awesome? You don't know, neither do I. I hope it is awesome. Then some people will have an option for under $1000, which really doesn't exist right now.#1 rule: don't be a dick.#2 rule: don't expect a $100 toy to work like a $10000 piece of equipment.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2025, 11:58:24 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 22, 2025, 11:16:42 pmConsidering I have been dealing with Chinese designedandmanufactured DSO's for 12 years I'm qualified to discuss such matters.Your qualifications on this subject ?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 03:36:18 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 22, 2025, 11:50:53 pmAs if Siglents don't have bug threads...(They just hide them away out of sightin weird areas of the forum)

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 06:38:27 am
content: Instead of bitching about business models and bug fixing, ask some proper questions about this new scope being proposed. The initial post is a bit vague on it.How many channels is it going to have, or is it just a single channel scope.The initial post mentions 256Mpts and later on the OP mentions 200Mpts, so what is it going to be.Which ADC is going to be used to provide the 4GSa/s.What FPGA and MCU combination is going to be used. Handling 4GSa/s is not so simple and requires a bit more than a F1C100s or ELF2 FPGA.In the first post it states a 15.6 screen, which is great, but nothing about what control surface is going to be used. Will it be a touch panel, or will there be knobs and buttons to play with.What will be the form factor of the scope, tablet or desktop.In the initial post the OP mentions to be the developer of the DPOS350P and DPOX180H, but in a later post the OP mentions to be putting a team together, so what is OP's actual role in this, and how can this give us technical confidence.Reverse engineering the hardware and firmware of the 1013D and 1014D did not give me much confidence in the software nor hardware developers skills. Looking at the DPOX180H, it shows a similar screen setup as the 1014D, so the question is, will it be the same software development team that worked on the 1013D and 1014D. Same for the hardware.For people to spend 800 bucks one needs some confidence in the product and company, and as is I don't think many will have this confidence.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 07:21:57 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 16, 2025, 09:31:34 amThis USB oscilloscope costs $999, so I lowered my profit and controlled the dealer price, and the price was finally controlled at $600.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 07:24:37 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 22, 2025, 03:39:54 pm

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 07:25:15 am
content: No, the processor of DPOS350P is Allwinner R11, 1.2GHz main frequency, DDR2, and the overall processing speed is 8 times that of F1C100S

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 09:47:56 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 23, 2025, 07:25:15 amI see the price has dropped to $600, but does it include decoders? Which ones? What about trigger types? Basic or advanced FFT? Will it include function generator and frequency response analyzer? What other features do you plan to include?Persistence mode? (something missing from previous models)Portable battery operated? mouse operated? buttons or just touch?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 10:37:52 am
content: i think people expect too much out of theses toys, yep i do call them toys ... they do minimal jobs and can help at some pointsBUT the rant or bitching or else pffffffyou do know people what you're paying for ... and still rant, that's why the market is flooded with such crap,people still buy them...and once again threads derail so easily ...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 12:25:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 23, 2025, 03:36:18 amThreads? Who cares about threads? The point is, that Siglent FIXES the bugs when they're reported. They don't rely on their users to hack the functions to make them work. 😉

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 05:50:29 pm
content: What the OP is doing is collecting information about the most required features and release a model with only those features.If bandwidth is what people want they do it, period.Do you all believe in a 1GHz scope that is able to display the real waveform realtime? for only $US 600 including 4GS/s and lots of memory? I don't. And why they're scopes don't have a persistence mode? even the pocket size zeeweei dso2512g have it.... And dots vector mode?And it will be an 8, 12bits or more? real or average? for 600 bucks?What's the point in having a device that display a stable 1GHz signal but can't display glitches or random instability due to signal manipulation? useless!But anyway I would like to see that creation and it's usefulness, who knows if I won't be surprised and redeem myself.My posts are not to create discussions or insults to anyone but to show the developer that we the buyers expect certain features according to the release price. The device must display true results not just manipulation.The just released dpos350p will be a nice device to test how real are those 350MHz signals displayed, real signals not manipulated and the capability in displaying glitches and other things. This is important because certainly the code will be ported to the new model.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 06:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: ptluis on April 23, 2025, 05:50:29 pmI watched a video on the DPOX180H from some ham radio hobbyist, and it showed a similar remarkable feature as the 1013D and 1014D do. When testing the -3dB bandwidth instead of the measured voltage dropping it went up.When I reverse engineered the firmware of the 1013D I found the code with which they calculate a perfect sine wave to display, when the input frequency goes beyond a set value. In the case of the 1013D it is ~41MHz if I recall correctly.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 01:19:58 am
content: So how hard would it be to make a most basic analog 1 GHZ scope, but with a digital screen ? So like a fast, old Tektronix scope, but w/ a modern screen (so yes some digital at the end) ?

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 01:27:03 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 23, 2025, 06:48:48 pmAre you the one who cracked the 1013D firmware? To be honest, I really admire you. Did you do it in your spare time or full time? I designed 1014D and 1013D 6 years ago. At that time, they were just for children to practice with, so the functions were very poor and just like toys. Later, our target customer group changed, so starting from DPOX180H, we made it as a professional instrument. Because the hardware was not good and 1013D and 1014D were about to be replaced, I never pursued better software upgrades.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 01:30:06 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 23, 2025, 06:48:48 pmIs this something you do for fun and without reward? I really admire you.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 03:21:14 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 24, 2025, 01:27:03 amAre you also involved in the development of the 2C53P?Is that project completely abandoned?Could you answer a few questions that have been bothering me for a while and when I wrote to Fnrisi they did not give me an answer.1. Why can't I zoom in or move the recording stopped with Single trigger?2. Why don't normal and single trigger work from 1us to 10ns.3. Are there still software bugs with it, when can we expect an update?If the 2C53P is already an abandoned project, then my 3rd question is irrelevant.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 06:09:28 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 24, 2025, 01:27:03 amYes, I'm the one who reverse engineered all of the 1013D, except for the capacitor values.As a retired engineer I have a lot of free time on my hands, and it did take a lot of time to do the work though. At first I was driven by the fact that mine arrived with a partially defective touch screen and a replacement touch screen resulted in the touch coordinates being swapped. After fixing this problem, I was driven by curiosity. My journey can be followed from here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/msg3420026/#msg3420026I also reverse engineered the FPGA configuration to some extend. See:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/reverse-engineering-anlogic-al3_10-fpga/Quote from: yangyao on April 24, 2025, 01:30:06 amYes, I do this for fun and the only reward is my personal satisfaction of getting it done, and gaining knowledge and skills.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 06:13:33 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 24, 2025, 06:09:28 amUnderstood

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 06:14:52 am
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on April 24, 2025, 03:21:14 amNo, I didn't make 2C53P, but I have used it and there are too many software bugs.

author: aleksandrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 07:02:24 am
content: Dear Yangyao, I have a couple of questions for you, please answer them directly.In the forum threads where you described the messages, you were asked many questions, and you answered only some of them. I understand that you are bound by legal obligations and cannot answer all of them.1) Can you provide a list of topics or questions that you can answer?There have already been quite a few messages about software updates for products that will never be updated again because you have moved on to developing a 1G/s oscilloscope. And this is very unfortunate and demotivates not only to buy abandoned products, but also new ones, because there is no certainty that when you move on to developing the next product, this one will not be abandoned as well.I assume the following risks for Fnirsi from publishing the source code:- It will be easier for other manufacturers to copy- If there were any tricks or gimmicks in the software, they will become knownHowever, as you have already seen, even without a budget, the task of reverse engineering has already been solved by one of the forum participants. And both of these risks were realized even without opening the source code.2) Could you discuss with the management the possibility of publishing the source code for abandoned products? It is not at all necessary to do this openly, because data leaks happen to everyone, and they are not legally strong.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 07:31:17 am
content: stop it, please, just stop it.why do some people here think that OP is a consultant and paid for explaining his business plan, making public his IP, telling and backing up his roadmap?He is a subcontractor and we should respect that in all the aspects that come with it.If you wanna know the final product and its specifications, then wait until it's produced and available for purchase.Stop telling the guy (or company) what YOU want him doing.Otherwise, pay him as a consultant.

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 07:34:46 am
content: Quote from: yangyao onTodayat 04:27:03>>I designed 1014D and 1013D 6 years ago.

author: aleksandrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 07:47:16 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 24, 2025, 07:31:17 amIn the first message, the author of the topic simply informed us about his plans. And did not limit the topic of discussion in any way.Therefore, I believe that everyone has the right to ask a question about this new oscilloscope.And the author of the topic answers these questions or not, and this is his right.Most of the questions that were asked here are normal and justified. Even in terms of questions about old products, since the new oscilloscope is made by the same person, which means that the problems of old products can also be in the new one.Once again, those questions that seem incorrect to you arose from the fact that the author did not limit the area of ​​discussion.If he had written: "Dear forum members, I want to discuss only your technical and interface expectations from the new product," your indignation would have been justified.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 08:00:43 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 24, 2025, 07:31:17 amWhy? this is a forum isn't it? are you afraid that he quit doing the new scope? he won't relax.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 11:41:38 am
content: Quote from: Evi on April 24, 2025, 07:34:46 amGive the team a chance to evolve, so instead of constantly shaming them, provide some constructive input.Quote from: Sorama on April 24, 2025, 07:31:17 amThe way I see it is that the OP is a developer of products and is using FNIRSI as a manufacturing and distribution channel. The day he decided to join the forum and inform us of his new plans and previous developments, opened the door for us to ask questions, so lets reverse this, and you stop with complaining about us asking questions.It is up to the OP to decide if and when he answers our questions and or provide us with information needed to make improvements to the products ourselves. It is not up to you for sure.This game could be beneficial for both the OP and us for that matter.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 11:46:33 am
content: Quote from: Evi on April 24, 2025, 07:34:46 amEveryone started out somehow, in 6 years an engineer can learn a lot and apply it to new products. I still say that 1013 was designed by an engineer who just graduated from school. Or as part of his bachelor's thesis.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 11:49:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 23, 2025, 03:36:18 amAh the irony of troll using a troll to troll....

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 11:57:13 am
content: @yangyaoI looked at the photo of board of the DPOS350P, that you provided in other threads, and do wonder what your plans are for the ADC setup in this new 1GHz bandwidth scope you are planning.In the DPOS350P I see 4 ADC's that are probably the same ones as used in the DPOX180H and most likely a faster version of those used in the 1013D and 1014D. So basically 8 ADC channels each operating at 125MHz, and to be able to sample at 1GHz the clocks have to have proper phase shifts, which might be a bit problematic with the Gowin GWN1-9, where the PLL, for as far as I know, only allows for one extra phase shifted output.Another issue with a setup like this is that the input signals into the ADC's need to have the exact same delay from the source onto all the inputs. At 350MHz maybe not that big of an issue, but at 1GHz it will be far trickier to get it right.Why did you and your team choose for this setup and not use the ADC08D500 like the Hantek DSO2000 series. With a single chip the design would have been simpler, and using a Gowin GWN2-18 with internal SDRAM or PSRAM would have given additional sampling memory, improving the possibilities enormously. I have no idea on cost impact of such a setup compared to the setup you choose for the design.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 12:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 23, 2025, 06:48:48 pmIf I can choose, I would rather have a scope fulfill it's specification then make false statements about it.It's better to write 40MHz on a device that actually does 40MHz rather than writing 100MHz on it and then get artefacts or software enhanced data rather than the signal on my probe.These things are destroying the reputation of a brand. Because if you are not honest about that originally, I just don't know what's next. Like I cannot trust that it will do what it supposed to do. The bandwidth is fixed, so what's next the trigger doesn't work properly? Will it show actual data or something made up? Are we putting these techniques to hide limitations somewhere else?

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 12:30:49 pm
content: Actually, hi wrote: "I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope, with a sampling rate of4GS"It is a slightly big difference.Rigol and Siglent just resting asideAnd hi does not understand that real resolution will be only 400 MHz

author: Mahagam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 01:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: Evi on April 24, 2025, 12:30:49 pmIt`s Ok if you do a proper math. Keysight InfiniiVision 4154A/G can provide even 1.5GHz bandwidth with only 5Gsps.And both Siglent and Rigol is making a such oscilloscopes (1GHz/4Gsps)

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 02:08:29 pm
content: Quote from: Evi onTodayat 15:30:49Actually, hi wrote: "I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope, with a sampling rate of4GS"It`s Ok if you do a proper math. Keysight InfiniiVision 4154A/G can provide even 1.5GHz bandwidth with only 5Gsps.And both Siglent and Rigol is making a such oscilloscopes (1GHz/4Gsps)How many curves could be plotted via 4 points?So, they forced approximation to sinewave.

author: Mahagam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 02:19:28 pm
content: Quote from: Evi on April 24, 2025, 02:08:29 pmLet`s think about 1/bandwidth - rise time.

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 02:26:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mahagam onTodayat 17:19:28>Let`s think about 1/bandwidth - rise time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 03:01:09 pm
content: Quote from: Evi on April 24, 2025, 02:08:29 pmI suggest to read up on sample theory and how sin x /x reconstruction works. Hint: sin x / x doesn't add anything. It just allows the signal to be displayed in a way our brain can work with it.

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 05:34:26 pm
content: Let's somebody more advanced comments your discovery.You might want to bring in Nyquist's theorem to help.In reality, it's not what it really is.

author: DylanTaco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 08:17:08 pm
content: Nyquist Theorem states the signal should be sampled at least twice the frequency(but really need more than twice) to reconstruct a signal. In reality, if you want to perfectly capture a signal, then you need to sample at least 10-20x the frequency for sinusoidal signals and 2-4x for digital signals/square waves.I imagine a 4GS/s sampling rate would be able to capture a 1GHz digital signal and less accurately for a sinusoidal.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 08:52:13 pm
content: Quote from: DylanTaco on April 24, 2025, 08:17:08 pmYou have this the other way round! Think about the frequency spectrum of a digital signal and the requirement of low-pass filtering a signal before sampling it.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 10:15:47 pm
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 24, 2025, 01:27:03 amhello. it's good to be able to the developer directly. thanks for opening a line.considering that 1013d is still being sold and not as a device for children and it really has it's uses(i test power supply and chargers with it like ripple and noise and transient response and rise time...), will you update it's firmware?when i contacted fnirsi about the missing features or bugs like peak detect mode acquisition mode and low voltage detection(the scope simply ignores about 300mv at 10x or 30mv at 1x), they said a new firmware will come. will you kindly provide better firmware?considering that dpox180 is really a better scope than 1013d and has function generator at the top of it, how is it around the same price?

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 02:33:56 am
content: What do you think of this appearance (some details are not yet completed), 350MHz version

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 04:18:22 am
content: Wow! TheSino phobiasinophobia is thick in this thread.

author: aleksandrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 04:50:31 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 25, 2025, 02:33:56 amThe appearance is not bad! Will the handle be foldable? USB-C port on the front side for charging? If so, then it is probably better to move it to the side.I wrote 2 questions above, can you answer?

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 05:02:21 am
content: I think a tablet scope that can be wired to the mechanical control unit as a separate unit would be a better solution.When the scope is up on a stand or shelf, you don't have to reach over everything to press a button.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 05:52:41 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 25, 2025, 04:18:22 amPhobia means fear. Nobody fears Sino here.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:08:16 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 24, 2025, 08:52:13 pmYep. The knowledge of Joseph Fourier explains this part of the mystery.To draw a square wave without the use of additional math the 10 to 20 points per period do the trick. Just go from point to point with a straight line. This leads to the edges being more vertical than it would be the case with only 2 to 4 points per period.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:13:14 am
content: Quote from: Bud on April 25, 2025, 05:52:41 amIs it fear, envy, discrimination or disdain that is shown, that is the question.It is a pity though and petty too for that matter. I would like a good back and forth discussion with yangyao about his products and the choices made in respect to the designs.Edit: and yes I know, hypocrisy, I mock the products too.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:18:16 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 25, 2025, 02:33:56 amTo me, an old school gray beard guy, it has a toy like appearance. To shiny and sleek. But that is just my opinion, take from it what you like.Is this a design with a 15.6 inch screen?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:35:51 am
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 24, 2025, 10:15:47 pmI know you know about the open source firmware for the 1013D, so why bother asking for an update here.There is no extra money in it for the OP to spend time on updating the 1013D. The DPOX180H is somewhat of a replacement for it and the DPOS350P is a follow up model. Based on the tear downs and photo of the PCB, the hardware looks improved upon. If the DPOS350P is bug free and better has yet to be seen.Sure one can complain about the lack of support and it being a bad business model, but keep in mind that support costs money, and that has to be incorporated into the sales price.In my opinion a better setup would be to open source the devices after some period and have enthusiast improve on the devices. Sales of the hardware might benefit from it. I have no idea on what the risks of this would be business wise. Will there be competitors that will steal the hardware design and firmware and try to make a buck of of it too. Has to be from a low income country, because otherwise I doubt it would be profitable to get it done.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 07:02:16 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 06:18:16 amNo, this is the 350M desktop oscilloscope version, with a 7-inch screen and a low price. However, I have given up on this version. I designed this version myself, but I don’t think it’s very good. I hired an industrial designer at a high price to redesign it.

author: yangyao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 07:04:02 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 06:35:51 amYou are very wise ！

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 07:29:15 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 25, 2025, 07:02:16 amI'm not an EE but the vertical shape saves a lot of space on the desk, the tradition of a large footprint must die IMHO.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:49:47 am
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on April 25, 2025, 07:29:15 amThis trend has started when the flat screen became available. Modern test equipment is way less deep now, also because of the shrinkage of components, and PCB's getting smaller due to this.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:23:05 am
content: Quote from: DylanTaco on April 24, 2025, 08:17:08 pmWrong in several important respects.Firstly, for digital signals the frequency is irrelevant; theonlyimportant parameter is the risetime. That is a direct consequence of basic Fourier theory, and is demonstrated here:https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2018/05/08/digital-signal-integrity-and-bandwidth-signals-risetime-is-important-period-is-irrelevant/Secondly, high oversampling ratios (i.e. >4) are not necessary, but are mainly used to simplify the front end analogue filtering.Thirdly, you have to be careful when you define "signal". I have strange ~2GHz and ~4GHz scopes with sampling frequencies << 1MS/s. The mainstream HP54100D was 1GHz 40MS/s.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:54:58 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 06:35:51 amopen source firmware is grate and a very good option but doesn't have peak detect mode that i need most.open source firmware needs calibration and there is a chance of breaking the device if something goes wrong on my side when i format the sd card or do the other needed steps. there is also a chance of touch screen problems. that's why i asked fnirsi and they said they will update the firmware. open source firmware is very advanced and capable specially with atlan actively working on it but i am not skillful enough and may break the device. i simply want to use the device not solve the problems that developer should have solved in the first place.fnirsi is still responsible it is still selling it isn't it? how is it not profitable if it is still sold?!are you actually somehow supporting the move of this device being abandoned or am i misunderstanding you? do you think support for this product was justified and the way it should have been, a product with crappy and lacking firmware that other people should fix instead of the developer or the company selling it and getting money for it?

author: aleksandrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 10:14:23 am
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 09:54:58 amI think if we really believe that Yangyao is who he claims to be, then he has already written enough for us to be sure that the release of new firmware for some old products (at least those he is involved in developing) is very unlikely. And support is most likely just making groundless promises, as is often the case.Considering what Yangyao writes and answers. It is very difficult for me to understand why he decided to come to this forum at all. In my opinion, no one has had a productive dialogue with him, even those who did not try to point out the shortcomings.Perhaps the main benefit for us as users from all this is that we can not cherish hopes for quick positive changes in Fnirsi, and this is also a result for our correct choice when buying equipment.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 10:23:29 am
content: +1

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 10:42:33 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 08:49:47 amVery trueBut there are also many modern T&M instruments that areintentionallymore "deep" than "wide" or "tall" A lot of that has to do with rack mounting - if you want to have two units side-by-side in a standard 19" rack (1HU or 2HU), you sometimes have to make them deeper.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 10:46:03 am
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 09:54:58 amThe developer made investments to develop the product and needs sales to make a return on his investment. If he has to spend again time on it to improve the device, it is another investment, that might not see enough return on investment. Simple economics here.Responsibility depends on agreements and rights stated in some product manifest. Chinese companies do not fall under European laws in cases like these. Basically the guarantee is to the front door. And you get what you pay for.If you want service and responsibility, don't buy these cheap products.Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 09:54:58 amNo I'm not supporting this device being abandoned.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 11:08:39 am
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 09:54:58 amWe all (should) know that these products are one shots.If you don’t want that or need support and updates, then you have to pay (way) more.Make your choice and stop wining.Buy a Trabant or a bmw. There is a reason for their prices.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 11:11:03 am
content: Quote from: aleksandrs on April 25, 2025, 10:14:23 ami agree probaby fnirsi is not gonna change positively. who knows Maybe Yangyao is lying the same way he and fnirsi lied about 1013d and it's specs.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 11:14:11 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 25, 2025, 11:08:39 amin the recent years specially 2024 to 2025 , even a Trabant must have better support because of the competition and alternatives . you should know that amigo. i didn't ask for a bmw stop exaggerating.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 11:19:25 am
content: But they don’t.It is as simple as that.And it reflects in its price.Maybe we (you) should have more respect for people like OP that are willing to invest quite some money into your hobby.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 11:48:26 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 10:46:03 amThey won't fix it, it was difficult for them to add *2 in long mode for 50mV The repair would take 2 minutes of his time. Even with coffee.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 11:55:44 am
content: For me, Fnirsi is a manufacturer of cute cheap little devices like the DPS-150, SG-003A, HS-01 etc..All fine! All around $50.Do I expect support or updates for these? No, nothing beyond the DOA case.But would I buy a $600+ device from Fnirsi?Not at the moment. Trust in the brand would have to grow and that can take years.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 12:20:38 pm
content: Quote from: aleksandrs on April 25, 2025, 10:14:23 amOne can always hope to see reform.The way I see it, is that the OP, if indeed is what they claim to be, is in a position where they can develop cheap products, and if we can help to improve on those products without them getting more expensive, I see that as a win for both. We get cheap toys with better quality, and he gets less complaints and possibly better sales.In thishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-bench-scope-fnirsi-1014d-7-1gsas/msg5890174/#msg5890174thread, the OP writes about a new release of the 1014D with better specs being sold for the same price. Maybe they have similar plans for the 1013D.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 12:22:19 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 25, 2025, 11:48:26 amThere is more to it than just this simple software fix. Things need to be tested, production line needs to be updated,....

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 12:28:27 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on April 25, 2025, 11:55:44 amYes, that is the problem with the trend they set. Confidence is low, and to rebuild it, that takes effort.I find that even 250 euros for a 7 inch 2 channel tablet scope from this brand is a risk, certainly without proper reassurance from well known reviewers.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 12:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 24, 2025, 10:15:47 pmThere is nothing that the Chinese cannot promise you. Forget it, the 1013D is dead. It would require new firmware for the fpga and a program for the uP, and the bus between the fpga and the uP is narrow.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 01:04:41 pm
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 25, 2025, 02:33:56 amIt depends, it will be a bench or a portable battery operated scope?

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 01:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 08:49:47 amSoon, oscilloscopes will start to look like smartphones

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 02:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on April 25, 2025, 05:52:41 amI'm the victim of autocorrection.Supposed to be sinophobia: anti-Chinese sentiment.My apologies to Sino.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 02:42:54 pm
content: Why are there so many claims that FNIRSI do not support their products?DSO-153: 7 firmware updates2C53T: 2 firmware updatesLCR-P1: 5 firmware updatesLCR-ST1: 4 firmware updatesDMC-100: 3 firmware updatesDMT-99: 3 firmware updatesHS-01: 3 firmware updatesFNB58: 4 firmware updatesDPOX180H: 3 firmware updatesAnd I could go on and on. I see some very old products never got any updates, but they probably didn't include a way to do updates. However, it seems they learned something along the way and all their newer products can accept updates and they seem to be providing them.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 03:12:46 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 25, 2025, 02:42:54 pmUnfortunately, the DPOX180H still have bugs/problems and it hasn't hadupdates for a year. From an earlier post in this thread by the OP/developer:"DPOX180H does have some problems. Why haven't I updated it? Because the salesare too terrible. The dealers sell it at a very high price. A handheld oscilloscope can'tsurvive at this price. So I have given up on DPOX180H and haven't produced it fornearly a year."https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hello-everyone-i-am-going-to-make-a-very-low-priced-1ghz-oscilloscope/msg5889030/#msg5889030

author: aleksandrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 03:22:43 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 25, 2025, 02:42:54 pmBecause it's not just a question of the number of updates, but also whether all the bugs are fixed before the end of the support cycle.I understand that the product is budget and there were no resources to test it properly before launch. It was tested by users.And I don't expect it to be fixed quickly, I just want to know that the product won't be abandoned until what can be fixed programmatically is fixed.Have you read the fix logs for DPOX180H? They spent resources on changing the line width before fixing the really serious problems. It's not just a question of budget, it's a question of efficient resource allocation.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 03:27:54 pm
content: For a $50-100 scope you will have to expect some rough edges.For $800 you expect more. And in this price range most peoplewill do a web search for reviews, and if that turns up somethingnegative, they will stay away. OTOH, if you up front declare thatyou will provide (timely) updates and bug fixes for e.g. 2-3 yearsand/or until all (major) bugs are fixed, then people may be morewilling to buy it (even if it initially have some bugs).It's very positive that the OP has joined the forum, and I hopethat these discussions will lead to better products.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 04:06:05 pm
content: But so far, the text has shown that we should throw away old products. And buy new ones, but if they sell poorly, we should throw them away too. Hopefully, the approach will change.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 04:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 25, 2025, 04:06:05 pmThat certainly appears to be their business model for cheaper products.In the $800 price range, they need to make a clearly stated support model. How many years is the warranty? How long do they guarantee to create updates and bug fixes for it? Will they open source it after a set period of time?If you buy it after it's been out for a while, it's a low risk if you can test it thoroughly during the initial return period. Other than that, without a trustworthy guarantee, it's not worth the investment at that price point.ETA: People requiring special trigger models is a different story. That's added features, which you shouldn't expect too much. If they add it, awesome. More important is stability and meeting stated specs.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 04:48:30 pm
content: Well, this one offers a good width of edible fiber.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 05:38:27 pm
content: I read quite a few people being adament about updates but IMHO that is not a good thing to want. Because it means you'll be buying an incomplete product and you are basically funding the supplier to (hopefully) finish the product at some point. Or not. This way of working has lead to numerous manufacturers dumping incomplete products onto the market which sell based on some kind of vague promise that it will be OK some day (if that day ever comes). Subsequently releasing updates to add functionality the customers already paid for is suddenly marketed as 'customer engagement' and for some reason people perceive this as positive. I fail to understand how that is positive in any way. Especially after having lost 2500 euro myself. Buy a car now, receive the indicator lights later... I don't think that is something you should encourage as a customer / consumer. Buy the product only when it has the features you require.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 05:59:26 pm
content: Everyone does it though. Even the big names. Since equipment has became more software than hardware this has been the norm. It's when they won't/can't update it that you end up with potential junk. The FNIRSI 1014 and 1013 are examples, as are the UNI-T oscilloscope and DMM I bought a few years back. They had multiple bugs that were never addressed. I'll never buy anything from UNI-T again.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:14:26 pm
content: Exactly. Go buy a Keysight for $20,000, and you still need updates for basic functions, or bug fixes.No, it isn't awesome. But that is why a promise for updates is required. Otherwise, your only option is to wait for 5 years after a product is released and buy it then IF they fixed everything.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 25, 2025, 04:48:30 pmSee the image in BillyO's post. It states 60kpts memory depth, and guess what, it is kind of a lie.Based on the photo of the board that can be found here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-bench-scope-fnirsi-1014d-7-1gsas/msg5891122/#msg5891122the FPGA is a Gowin GW1N-LV9EQ176C6/I5.The Gowin website show us that it has 468kbits of block ram, so only 58.5kbytes of block ram. And then it also depends on the configuration of the blocks as to how many usable memory you get from it. Then there is the need for some part of the memory for the function generator, taking away precious bits from the sample memory.I guess the design is pushed into what it is based on money, but I fear it is again ahitswing and a miss. With a GW2AR it would have had plenty of sample memory (8Mbyte or even 16Mbyte). What would have been the extra cost for the consumer, maybe 25 euro, but it would have been a much more useful device.Edit: got my expressions mixed up.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 06:32:37 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 25, 2025, 06:14:26 pmBuy a similar priced Yokogawa and it is more likely to be bug free. I have not found bugs in mine so far.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 07:10:38 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 06:32:37 pmWhat model is your Yokogawa?

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 07:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 25, 2025, 11:19:25 am1-it isn't my hobby i actually use the device for my work.2- i didn't disrespect him. i asked him a question about firmware update very respectfully and he didn't have the courage to answer me directly. it was actually pcprogrammer who answered me saying no. my special respect is for someone like atlan. just look what he did and still does with the crappy firmware that yangyao originally wrote. yangyao was so naive and irresponsible that actually wrote a crappy firmware to cripple the device when measuring low amplitude voltage lower than around 30 to40mv at 1X or 300 to 400mv at 10X.Atlan fixed it. Atlan fixed a lot of things for no money. He actually cared about us and still kindly is supporting the device while he never got any money. I didn’t install his firmware because of my own skills being not high enough and ther reasons in my previous posts, but even by looking at the pics of his alternate firmware one can easily see how great and professional this man’s firmware and skills are. I wish he had time to implement Peak Detect mode but honestly this man has done way more than fnirsi and yangyao have done for a device that they are paid for not Atlan. so I have special respect for Atlan but yangyao disrespected his customers by making crap. He actually believes this device to have inherently bad hardware and still sold/sells lies to people but offers no support. He just made some crap and left it there.2-cheap or expensive is relative. Not only in western developed countries it may be cheap but in my country it is not, but also nowadays, selling a real 100mhz portable oscilloscope is nothing special. every other Chinese company is doing it and they are not lying about the specs. gone are the days when a 100 dollar 100mhz oscilloscope was considered cheap even in the west. now everyone is doing it and doing it way better than 1013d which is sold today. selling this device with 40Mhz real bandwidth is like selling a cellphone width 2MP front camera and no selfie one for 100 dollars, while other cellphones have way better cameras and less price. This is simply the evolution of technology and it’s affect in prices. so justifying a 40Mhz device in 2025 with 130Dollar price with no support is just not acceptable. they never offered any meaningful support ever did they?! it was pcprogrammer and specially atlan who offered support.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 25, 2025, 12:47:32 pmyou are right man. he is completely irresponsible and Fnirsi is no different. he is the same man who made a crap firmware that cripples low voltage amplitude detection in his own designed, 1013d. what a joke this is. he and Fnirsi are a good match for each other when it comes to produce a device and leave it there for others to fix!look at this sentence from him:"Why haven't I updated it? Because the salesare too terrible". he is just completely irresponsible.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 25, 2025, 07:10:38 pmIt is an oldie, but very good one. A DL9705L, 5GS/s, 500MHz and 32 channel logic analyzer.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:05:40 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 25, 2025, 04:06:05 pmi doubt it will change. just look at the attitude that the so called developer shows here.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 07:58:11 pmThe PC Programmer did most of the work. Without him, there would be nothing to build on.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:10:35 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 25, 2025, 02:42:54 pmgo compare FNB 58 with Witrn U3 updates friend. i have both Witrn U3 and FNB 58. FNB 58 just bites the dust somewhere in the corner while U3 has so many updates you can not count. evey new charger protocol is updated while FNB58 still can not trigger Xiaomi 120W and some 67W chargers for example. both are about the same price but Fniris just doesn't care. it is not about money it is about them being responsible or not.DPOX180H updates, haha go see the bugs and the great developer's answer man.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 25, 2025, 08:08:27 pmyeah forgot to say you and The PC Programmer. sorry my bad. thank you both for great work man

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:12:56 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 08:05:40 pmAt least now I know what people expect. It's possible to change that. And we'll soon have the opportunity to read reviews on the 350 and see how it really is.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:25:05 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 08:01:42 pmIt is not the crap firmware that is the problem with the low voltage measurements, it is the crap hardware. The same goes for peak detection. It depends a bit on what your ideas are on the peak detection, but if it is needed to be a form of trigger, then it is not possible with the current hardware configuration. As is one can only search through a just made acquisition and look for a peak within the samples, and report this peak to the user. Probably not very useful with only 3000 samples.As a side remark, sure Atlan deserves respect, but he is building further on my source code and has no or little insight in the original FNIRSI firmware, so your other post is not to accurate on that issue. And I think Atlan is not doing it to please others here on the forum, but more as a hobby and or learning experience, just like I did. That others benefit from it, is just a side effect. For me it was born out of need due to a defective touch panel.And blaming a manufacturer for not putting time into a product that does not sell well does not stick. It is just good business sense from a money and profit perspective. No lives are on stake with a product like this, so irresponsible, no I don't think so.Edit: I wrote this while Atlan made his post, so I missed that he already corrected mehdifat.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 25, 2025, 08:12:56 pmI'm not going to hold my breath. Did you notice that he shows the main function of the 350 in his first post here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hello-everyone-i-am-the-developer-of-dpos350p-and-dpox180h/msg5874066/#msg5874066

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 08:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 25, 2025, 08:25:05 pmyou made great work sorry i forgot to mention i already said that. for whatever reason you did, it was better than Fnirsi. the hardware is crap but still can detect low voltage firmware. peak detect is not needed for triggering at all. it just detects peak of the amplitude with longer time base and less sample rate. Fnirsi is irresponsible man whether sells good or not. it is still selling it so i doubt it is selling bad!

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:22:04 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 07:58:11 pmYikes.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 25, 2025, 09:22:04 pmaverage income in my country is 100 to 150 Dollars per month so we have to be careful with how we spend money

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:45:52 pm
content: How much do you pay for a loaf of bread? For a dozen eggs? Litre of milk?

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 09:58:42 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on April 25, 2025, 09:45:52 pma loaf of bread? around 0.2 dollars for a type of bread called Sangak. there are other types too.dozen eggs? around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.a Litre of milk? around 0.4 to 0.5 dollars.prices are not absolute. these are the ower prices and even these prices change because of bad economy

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 10:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 09:43:50 pmI can see why you're in such a tough situation when it comes to scope choices for your business.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2025, 02:52:47 am
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 25, 2025, 09:58:42 pmThere you go. Here we pay 5 to 10 times more for the same. That makes your $150 equivalent of our $1500. You guys spend much less for living.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2025, 03:15:17 am
content: Quote from: Bud on April 26, 2025, 02:52:47 amwe spend much more for home or shop rent. the least for and old and low quality home is 100 dollars a month. most are paying way more. a shop to work in? go above 2000 dollars a month. in my country no average man will ever buy a house. a crappy car called 206 (Iranian made one not the original France version) is about 80000 dollars. yet average income is just 100 to 150 dollars. no matter how much more you pay for bread, your average income and life quality is way more. many people no longer can buy meat. so there is no comparison here my friend. you better be realistic.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2025, 06:10:47 am
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 22, 2025, 09:33:40 amHow many units do you expect to sell in order to support the DPOS350P with updates and bug fixes?I only checked the sales on the two places I have access to, Bangood and Aliexpress, and there were already more than 2000 units sold there, of the new design, I can't even find the old one.I can't track the ones sold in Hungary, and there are other sites.I estimated the sales at more than 100,000 units.Since the DPOS350P is more expensive, you can expect much fewer products sold.How many of them do you need to sell per month to keep the support up?How long do you plan to support the product?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2025, 09:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: yangyao on April 25, 2025, 02:33:56 amI really, really like the probe connectors on the top on my Micsig. It takes a lot less space on the bench than front connectors.(the wires go to the back then around the side)

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2025, 09:33:46 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on April 26, 2025, 02:52:47 am$1500/month works out the $18K per year. Quite a bit lower than minimum wage in Canada where the average is about $70K - or around $5,800/month. We have it much better than in Iran. Much!

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 05:15:15 am
content: Ok I'm forgetting how early digital made it's way into scopes, even with just 100MHz BW. So I see the HP-185B is listed as the 1st 1GHz scope 1962, I wonder if it has any early digital stuff, I'm just looking at the service manual.https://hparchive.com/Manuals/HP-185B-Manual.pdf

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 05:48:28 am
content: Older high bandwidth scopes used a technique called equivalent time sampling. This is basically only suitable for capturing repetitive signals. It won't capture a glitch unless that just happens to be on a sample moment.In a nutshell, normal sampling is based on taking multiple equally spaced samples of a single period of a signal to allow reconstruction of it. With equivalent time sampling the multiple samples are taken over multiple periods of a signal with a variable delay between the samples. The waveform is then constructed with the use of these samples to make up a single period.There is a lot of information on this subject that can be found on the internet.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 12:21:31 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 27, 2025, 05:48:28 amAm I correctly assuming that when I am measuring ripple and noise of a PSU, equivalent time sampling is effective but when I measure transient response, it works by normal sampling rate?Considering 1013d 200Ms sampling rate, when I am measuring transient response it is just a 10Mhz to max 20Mhz effective scope right?

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 12:35:54 pm
content: equivalent time sampling not support on 1013d

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 01:48:01 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 12:21:31 pmNo. For now forget about equivalent time sampling. It only works for repetitive signals which noise is not.For a modern DSO you can calculate bandwidth as sampling rate divided by 2.5 as a rule of thumb . So 200Ms/s -> 80MHz. But this assumes the sin x/x reconstruction filter is sufficiently long.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 02:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: MathWizard on April 27, 2025, 05:15:15 amTektronix had a Real Time 1GHz analog scope well before HP, can't recall the model number but remember using it way back in the 60s.Best

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 03:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 12:21:31 pmLike Atlan and nctnico indicated, forget about equivalent time sampling.It does not work for random signals like noise. Ripple in a power supply normally is not random and depends on the frequency of the AC voltage, rectifying method, smoothing capacitors and the current being drawn. In most power supplies well below a couple of mega Hertz. The FNIRSI 1013D can measure that.Based on nctnico's statement, it should be possible to measure 80MHz signals with the 1013D when a sin x/x reconstruction filter is used, but that is not the case in either the original firmware nor the new open source firmware. The original firmware calculates a sine wave for everything above >41MHz, so is useless in that sense. The open source firmware just displays the samples connected by straight lines, but this is still better than calculating a sine wave, and amplitude wise doing it wrong too, for that matter.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 27, 2025, 03:26:25 pmin this review :https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DH_aJHAevvNs%26pp%3DygUII3VzYl9vdGc%253D&ved=2ahUKEwjypc6QyfiMAxVdVPEDHfh_JhIQtwJ6BAgOEAI&usg=AOvVaw1Z_GMDa2kOx_HAWy1DMpIQ1013d's -3b is at 83Mhz and it's precision of amplitude measurement at 75Mhz, is better than 25Mhz! i believe it must be the result of automatic sine wave calculation above 41Mhz that you explained. man this is crappy firmware.i am curious pcprogrammer, is the hardware not capable of sin x/x reconstruction filter or they just simply skipped on the firmware altogether?i believe i need to up my skills and install the alternate firmware one of these days.can i count on 1013d for ripple and noise measurement till 41Mhz with original firmware assuming there may be some GaN Chargers that have switching frequency or noise at that Frequency in the future? if no, what do you think the countable and useful bandwidth of the device is?

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:11:56 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 04:02:52 pmNo expert on this, but I think you should use a 10x probe(1x has a bandwidth of 5-6MHz). With a minimum 100mV/divvertical resolution at 1x, at 10X this is 1V/div which makesit pretty useless for measuring ripple.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:13:18 pm
content: If you want to measure noise from switching power supplies, you could consider using one of the many cheap spectrum analysers like the NanoVNA. With a low-Z probe you can probe around in a circuit for as long as the voltages are within the range of the probe. It won't show the shape of the waveform but at least you can get a vision of the spectrum.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: tunk on April 27, 2025, 04:11:56 pmfrom the tests at 1013d thread, 1x mode is actually capable of 18Mhz which is somehow like an automatic 20 mhz bandwidth limit button.nonetheless i do check with 10x probe for when i want to see the noise. i must install the alternate firmware someday because the morons who made this device crippled it at lower than 300 and 30 mv voltage detection in 10x and 1x mode.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 27, 2025, 04:13:18 pmthanks for recommendation my friend. it is currently sold for higher price than 1013d here. maybe some day i buy it.is it the same device used to measure cable impedance? for example when you have a coaxial cable and don't know it's impedance but want to terminate it to use with the scope.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:32:31 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 04:25:58 pmYes. The NanoVNA is a simple vector network analyser you can use to measure impedances and mismatches.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 06:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 04:02:52 pmAs with many of these reviews, they are based on not knowing the crap inside. I have not done a test on the front end itself, so I can't tell what the actual hardware bandwidth is. The design of the front end is also crap though.I noticed that my recollection was incorrect. I made a video on the sine wave calculation and it states it to be around ~43MHz.Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 04:02:52 pmThe processor will be capable of doing the math, but I was not up to the task of implementing it. In the original firmware there are all sorts of shenanigans to make what is shown on the screen better than what is being measured. Very weird filter techniques that can also be seen in how the signal changes when I change the input frequency.In the video you can see the scope that started my quest. It had a defective touch channel, and when I tried to remove it from the glass front panel, I broke both the glass front panel and the original touch screen, so I made a acrylic replacement for it. I got a new one to be able to compare my new firmware against the original one.Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 04:02:52 pmAs is now, there is an easy option in the open source firmware to switch back to the original firmware, so you can compare the two. The new firmware does show what is sampled as is, so closer to the truth.Quote from: mehdifat on April 27, 2025, 04:02:52 pmThe useful bandwidth of the 1013D is about 30MHz. But for noise and ripple measurement it just is not sensitive enough.Edit: I forgot to mention that the hardware sensitivity is only 100mV per division. The 50mV per division setting is basically a software zoom.An easy way you can verify this is to listen to the clicking of the relays when switching a channels sensitivity. From 100mV to 50mV you won't hear a click.

author: Atlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 07:22:40 pm
content: Pulling the 3.3V power supply from the stabilizer along the entire pcb to the uP then the FPGA to the reference and the input amplifier with a relay is also a masterpiece. (I will pause about the fact that the stabilizer must have a certain voltage at the input to function correctly) the result of the power supply bus solved in this way is that the voltage drops during sampling, the result is a fluctuation of the sampled value by 4 units. Which is compensated by software. This can be eliminated, you just need to adjust the board a little

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 04:42:56 am
content: Quote from: Atlan on April 27, 2025, 07:22:40 pmJust a little adjustment of the hardware, I would say that is an understatement.

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 10:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on April 27, 2025, 06:22:14 pmthanks for the thorough explanation my friend. you and already done a lot for this device and i appreciate you help.i can see around 30to40 mv 1x (300to400mv 10x) with the device which is enough most of the time fortunately . if i understood correctly, alternate firmware lets me see around 8mv or 6mv which will be perfect. in terms of ripple and noise, most original chargers are around 100 to 140mv with caps at the measuring point. if a fake charger's ripple is around 250 to 300mv, it will still pass as decent PSU so i can still use the device for my intentions.alternate firmware's better sensitivity will make things just perfect I just need to my get around doing it right.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 12:00:10 am
content: Trying to follow this and is this DSO (1013D) displaying an ideal signal (Sinewave) when the input digitized waveform is above a certain frequency?Best

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 01:19:44 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on April 29, 2025, 12:00:10 amyes. pcprogrammer is the one who discovered it. he reverse engineered the original crappy firmware and made an excellent alternative. atlan has also done a lot and made the firmware better.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 01:46:11 am
content: Quote from: mehdifat on April 29, 2025, 01:19:44 amThat is totally unacceptable from FNIRSI IMOBest

author: mehdifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 02:06:46 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on April 29, 2025, 01:46:11 amunfortunately Fnirsi lies a lot. 1013d is not the first and we can be sure will not be the last.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2025, 10:15:31 pm
content: DPOS350P looks like a killer device for audio enthusiasts. The whole analyzer lab in a box! Might become a best sellerI want to buy it for audio noise research, but the confusing characteristics of the frequency response analyzer and spectrum analyzer make me hesitant.According to Frequency response analyzer:- Is it possible to set excitation signal start frequency to 0Hz or 20Hz (at least)? Both manual and specs sheet says the range is 100Hz+ which i very limiting for audio signalsAccording to Spectrum analyzer:- What is the actual frequency range? Specification on the website says it's 200Khz - 350Mhz (which is quite outside the box for audio signals), while manual states that Start, Center, Stop and Bandwidth frequency setting bar could be set in a range 0~1GHz

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2025, 10:34:47 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 13, 2025, 10:15:31 pmI'm sure it's not great for audio. Look at the QA403 instead.Generally speaking, modern spectrum analyzers (even good ones) won't generally dip much into the audio range.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2025, 11:01:18 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 13, 2025, 10:34:47 pmThat sucks.I mostly interested in frequency response analyzer for handy noise measurements of audio electronic circuits\electronic components. QA403 looks useless for me, more consumer grade\black box approach device.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 01:22:49 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 13, 2025, 11:01:18 pmBy comparison to the scope you're looking at in this thread, the QA403 is a Rolls Royce. If you want to go higher end, you need a vastly larger budget.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 01:34:30 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 14, 2025, 01:22:49 amI wouldn't compare them. It's a different types of devices. 192khz adc interface is not enough for engineering tasks

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 01:40:48 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 13, 2025, 10:15:31 pmI guess you can set 1 Ghz stop, but meaninful measurements will be in the left 3rd of the screen, up to specified 350 Mhz max.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 02:00:01 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 14, 2025, 01:34:30 amYou said audio analyzer. 🤷 If you want FRA/Bode plots on a scope, look at the stuff from Siglent.

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 04:29:42 am
content: Analog Discovery от Digilent— ideal for audio measurements

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 06:23:06 am
content: Quote from: Evi on May 14, 2025, 04:29:42 amKeep your text in English. This ain't a russian language forum..

author: Evi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 06:39:42 am
content: Sorry, autotranslate culpa

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 09:54:55 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 14, 2025, 02:00:01 amNever asked for audio analyzer 😄 I can run software using my audio interface for this kind of stuff. Just don't want to stress my expensive studio gear with random signals and need scope grade resolution.I might end up with regular scope with FFT/Bode plot. Seems like DPOS350P actually doing the same - I guess there's no real spectrum measurements, just a fancy interface for FFT/Bode calculations. I have to wait for proper reviews before buyFnirsi software team is far beyond their hardware department 😄

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2025, 03:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 14, 2025, 02:00:01 amFor "audio" FRA/Bode just run Digilent Waveforms on your PC and use the line in jack. It's free and can be 24 bit.(or get a USB sound card)