Getting paid by a university Prof? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 02:26:42 pm
content: I've done a software side project, something I needed for myself, but which a university prof whom I still have occasional contact with from when she taught me has an interest in. I'm hoping to try to get some payment for it, not a huge amount, but something.Any tips on how to approach the subject of payment with her? I wouldn't say she is a close personal friend, but she's not a stranger either, perhaps distant-friend might be the best category in this regard.I also know UK universities are addicted to suffocating themselves in bureaucracy, to the extent I fear they could want so much BullS*** paperwork to make any official means of payment not worth my while. I am not willing to waste my life registering as a business and going insane satisfying some little Mussolini in a finance department who believes all payments need fancy invoices. All that high finance rubbish is discriminatory against the individual, seeming purposefully designed to turn the fundamental human right to buy and sell in to a game only playable by organisations able to hire multiple accountants. Universities nowadays wrap themselves in nonsense about all manner of "compliance" and record keeping and hire a thousand people to make it hard for a prof to simply hand over a cheque to someone who's done some work she'd like to get a copy of. This is the sort of thing which if I knew a plumber or independent shop-keeper who was interested in it, they'd handle it with an envelope of assorted Winston Churchill's, Jane Austen's and JMW Turners' (I dont think anyone ever encounters a Turing in this regard).I'm open to trying to get her to pay me via buying a shopping list of some tools, components and consumables through her university's budget system which I could visit her home office to pick up (I don't think she ever physically visits her uni any more), but don't know if I'd first need to somehow get her to use a personal email address to discuss this so it couldn't come back to bite her if some brain-dead box-ticker might one day audit through her university email account. And if I wouldn't be able to suggest that means of barter style payment via communications to her uni email, I'm not sure how I'd find the reason to ask for her personal email address.Any thoughts on how I might proceed?P.S. This is NOT a faringdon type post, this is a real situation, I'm simply looking for aone-off,zero-form-fillingway to get some payment (cash, cheque, goods...) from a professor who I know would gladly make the payment but might be frustrated at every turn if the wrong kind of paper pushers hear about it. I can expect the prof to be on my side, the obstacle will be pen-pushers.P.P.S. To be doubly clear, this is a prof I was taught by and now know only socially. I don't work for her uni, I'm not a student there but was some years ago.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 02:47:28 pm
content: a bit of tax fraud and stealing form the workplace, that sounds like really bad idea ....

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 02:51:07 pm
content: I would just donate the work and, perhaps, retain the copyright. It seems to be too convoluted and requires too much effort to bother with for what little money you could get from a university/professor.If a lot of people use your code, your name will become notable and other opportunities may arise.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 03:07:19 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on September 19, 2023, 02:26:42 pmIf the pen-pushers get in the way, then so be it. No money for you, no software for the university.But maybe you should just see how your friend likes the idea first instead of wild guess work. Maybe there is some way to get paid as a temporary staff member or perhaps the amount is below the limit that needs a lot of paperwork.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 03:16:05 pm
content: "But maybe you should just see how your friend likes the idea first instead of wild guess work"That is perhaps a good starting point.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 03:23:58 pm
content: Maybe the software will be used in a funded research project. It wouldn't hurt to ask...

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 04:28:33 pm
content: Hello,I work for a Uni across the pond.Any fee you desire is well below whatthe accountants are used to dealing with.They will be glad to cut you a cheque/check.They will be happier to pay you with a credit card.If you've done software IP work for a university, and you DO NOT GET PAID, it is "work-product" and they are in a world of hurt. What you and I would consider being the download of innocent shareware can become a nightmare for a Univ. Lawyer.Hence my once having to ship a case of Swiss Chocolateoverseas to a programmer who wrote a little patch for us.He didn't want paid, but international IP law said we must. Ok, send me a chocolate bar, he said. One bar is not enough, said our lawyer. Must pay him a "living wage" for his time.A mighty expensive case of Wonka bars went on the Prof's credit card, in the later yearly audit, hilarity occured.You'll find Glenda Goodwitch in accounts payable will know how to do that. She'll probably ⁸give you the UK equivalent of a US 1099 form, making you liable for the taxes.Not uncommon at all.What Professor wants, Professor Gets...Reason being, when 30-50% of grant funding is taken off as overhead, you need to keep the inmates happy and functional.The more I talk with international colleagues and students, the more I find I can walk into any treasurer's or bursary office in the world and be right at home.Steve

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 04:51:29 pm
content: Been there.University is full of leeches. They want stuff, but have no means to pay.You work for them for free, expecting at least acknowledgement, but you won't get anything in return, because nobody is responsible for anything.You have two options:Offer the software for free out of kindness and/or friendship to your former teacher and forget about it.OrDefine a price and sell it. Do a one time invoice, which should exist in most western countries. This is the legal and correct way. If they want paperwork and shady payment terms, tell them a sale is not possible.Universities need to understand that nobody likes to work for free.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 05:12:49 pm
content: Bicurico is somewhat correct, depending on the professor's funding state. If he/she has current funding, you'll get paid.The words "Pro Forma Invoice" generally will do the task if your not a corporation. My burden was being one of the first employees to buy an item off Ebay.. The discussion on that went all the way to the state capital. From an internal point of view, it looks like chaos to an outsider, but there are rules.Steve

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 05:24:23 pm
content: Some may be required to onboard you as a Supplier (more paperwork), before even doing anything else.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 06:16:07 pm
content: A simpler way to getting paid by a University is to invoice a service.Normally the department and/or the teacher has an economate with budget for services.This way they don't have to open a public tender to purchase a software or equipment.Getting the teacher to buy equipment for you as if it was for her is a big mistake: all items purchased (in my country this includes books) belong to the institution and has to be inventoried. Even if you don't mind that, it has a catch: you wouldn't be able to sell such an equipment and at the end of life of the equipment, you may have to return it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 06:44:17 pm
content: It will depend very much on the individual university - Some places will have figured out that it's not worth extensive paperwork and approvals for lower-value purchases. If the prof has authority to make discretionary purchases up to a certain value, then it may simply be a case of her issuing a purchase order and you sending an invoice against that.Obvously that will depend if her subject area is one that normally involves making purchases - practical engineering - probably, gender studies - not so much..If she is sufficiently senior she will likely know how to do it / who to ask to make things happen.Software may be a but tricky as it's less tangible and may raise issues of support and IP licensing.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 06:54:11 pm
content: ... a job is a relationship between an employer and employee ... as my friend always saysnot overly sure what his point isI guess the fudge is asking if you could get expenses or recompense . Personally, if i agree to help someone it is free of charge before expenses beyond my budget are incurred

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 07:49:21 pm
content: I agree with Mike, it depends on the Uni I've had some (a prof at UCL, and a researcher at another London Uni) able to pay me easily. Another (a department at RCA) made me go through registering as an employee then ripped me off by taking all their employment costs out of the payment.Moral : Don't do anything for the Royal College of Art.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 08:59:00 pm
content: At my employer, 1500$ or less at best needs department chair's approval. Threshold for contract and bidding required is 25,000. USD unless it is construction or building materials, which is much lower. Threshold for non-chemical inventory / property tag requirent is > 1500.00 USD. Only can buy computers from Dell unless you can get a waiver for laboratory needs, or if your part of e-sports team. More important is the waiver to force turnoff of auto-updates and OS upgrades for supplier provided computers in lab instruments, and the waiver to keep IT'S paws off my lab instrument LAN.Steve

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 09:09:23 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 19, 2023, 03:07:19 pmThis! The important question is whether she thinks it is fair to give you some remuneration. If so, I am sure she will know how to make that happen through the university -- heck, she works at the place! Why should it be your job to figure out payment modalities?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 09:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on September 19, 2023, 09:09:23 pmI think its just OP being odd and having weird assumptions. Did you read the fantasies they wrote? "I am not willing to waste my life registering as a business and going insane satisfying some little Mussolini in a finance department who believes all payments need fancy invoices. "It takes like 5 mins to write up an invoice in your own name. Any legit plumber or electrician is going to write up an invoice for their services, it is the normal process.Complaining that a uni won't let you work under the table for cash. lol.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 10:18:39 pm
content: Isn't it impossible to write a genuine invoice without VAT and/or business registration numbers? Accountants are typically the most strict people at an university. So no VAT number on invoice? No payment..Its usually not the people in the workplace that will put down useless roadblocks. Profs and the like will happily accommodate their work and people.. but funding, procedures and rules are in place so people won't privatize public funds etc.Paid in material goods? Can I spin that around as a donation?* I'm sure it would break some rule.. or even be fraudulent.. but its not the first time I heard that trick being done in the private sector (the donation was to help a business relationship).But funding is also a big deal. In my university, PhDs and the like are most often funded through publicly subsidized research projects with strictly allocated budgets. Some PhDs work on a private grant from a prof. Either way, some project budgets are allocated for publications, travel and some modest material costs. A part of these budgets can also be "in kind" meaning that a company will donate (their) products or services (e.g. consultancy hours) instead of cash. I think this is typically done to increase knowledge transfer opportunities between university/company. Typically its a mix.The bigger expenses like software licenses or expensive lab equipment are typically paid for by the department. Sometimes companies can donate stuff as well.. But I'm not sure how exactly those rules are. Universities try their best to stay independent in their (public) research activities.With that knowledge, I think its a bit of a stretch for a research chair to allocate some budget (be it specific project or public funds from their department) to finance a "donation" though. Maybe it is possible, but it depends on the budget authority and also the willingness from the people involved.edit: *: donation to a private individual is likely seen as income and would need to be taxxed. I presume that, regardless of what an university or company can do, that these actions are not legal at all.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 10:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: hans on September 19, 2023, 10:18:39 pmIn the UK, no.There is no such thing as "business" registration - you do not need to be a registered company to trade, and VAT registration is only required if your turnover exceeds a certain amount

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 11:48:55 pm
content: Difficult one. You were not an employee of the uni or contracted by the uni. So paying you as a casual worker with PAYE against your tax code, or as a supplier against an invoice, does not work. You might ge able to wangle some ex gratia type payment from the faculty, but they would not be morally obliged to make a payment unless, your Prof agrees that you were 'employed' in some 'casual' or speculative capacity in creating the software. However, a special bursary payment from the uni might be the way to go, as this would be easy for them to account for and, the money will come out of a different coloured bucket. And remember, you still retain the intellectual property rights to your software. So no need to stress

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2023, 12:08:14 am
content: Quote from: hans on September 19, 2023, 10:18:39 pmThe big practical advantage of that approach is that it doesn't involve the uni paying a new supplier, and there doesn't need to be any record of anything having changed hands. If it does need some paperwork, it could probably even be documented as a "permanent loan", or supply of equipment needed to create the software....

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2023, 12:35:59 am
content: If you're not looking for a large amount, there's something called cash...

author: thephil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2023, 10:15:19 am
content: I think there is no point in presuming all possible obstacles, hurdles and complications that may occur.Just talk to her.She works in the university system and will know what options and funding sources she has.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 03:50:56 am
content: Seriously, I've looked around (myself), when in similar situation, and decided the while deal was frought with hand-wringing and doubts...and no discussion of compensation. Other, more clear work options were usually right there, close. So any decisions involved looking at that greater field. Or, saying this another way, I had AT LEAST two other completely separate work-time options that were more clearly defined.Exception would be some task placement that got me closer to some other goal, where the immediate uncertain situation didn't substantially matter, rather, I wanted to get in that particular organization, (even by unpleasant means).So it's a question of tolerance, vs better off looking elsewhere, for more certain transaction.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2023, 08:05:09 am
content: I would send a bill along with a polite note and see what happens.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2023, 04:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on September 24, 2023, 08:05:09 amSorry, but IMHO this is the worst advise. Sending an invoice out of the blue lands you on the stack with scammers. It might even get you into legal trouble for trying to scam money.Never ever send an invoice to a big organisation like a university (or a bigger company) without a PO (purchase order) number. In addition I always put the name of the person in charge of the purchase at the client on the invoices I send. So if there are questions about the invoice, the financial people know who to contact within their own organisation.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2023, 05:13:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 24, 2023, 04:27:56 pmAbsolutely - must have a PO number to get anywhere in a finance dept.