QUICK Hot Air Stations - *Update* Alternative needed, can't get Quick in UK. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:07:36 pm
content: I've been after a new hot air station for a while and can't find anything, all that there seems to be for sale in the UK is cheap rubbish from the far east, more expensive rubbish from the far east and then really expensive stuff. I want something that's in the middle somewhere, Hakko is not an option in the UK it's more expensive than better brands!I do not want a hot air station with the fan in the handleI don't mind fan or turbine, noise is not an issue.I've seen some posts regarding Quick Hot air stations, the 860, 861, 856 and the 957 (Discontinued) these look really well made and tick all the boxes, but I have no idea how to get onein the UK?Also RS sell a Xytronic XY-LF-852D (with digital display and push buttons) which looks okay, I am trying to work out if it's just a cheap Chinese unit in a nicer clothes, I can find a tear down of the old model but not this one, the hot air hand tool looks like a Atten or Aoyue but I haven't seen these controls and settings on another station.If the worst comes to the worst and I am forced to get a cheap Chinese one, what's better a Aoyue or Atten out of the Hakko clones? CPC do a Tenma branded one which appears to be a Atten.I've been putting this off for far too long now and doing 0.3mm pitch or less is getting taxing on my eyes LOL.Modify message

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:11:46 pm
content: You can order quick from several companies in Poland.QuoteFor that money it completely sucks.

author: quantalume
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:12:52 pm
content: I have a YIHUA 852D+ like this one:http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2-In-1-Soldering-Station-YIHUA-852D-Diaphragm-Pump-Hot-Air-Gun-Digital-Soldering-Iron-SMD/503794_32296054263.html.I'm quite pleased with it. I tried a couple of different Chinese units until I found one I like. You will wonder why you didn't buy one sooner. I use it for all sorts of things: soldering, heat shrink, drying paint, melting plastic, etc.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:14:13 pm
content: Hi Wraper, yes it's a bit pricey for what it is!!! This is what I mean, it's real cheap crap or expensive crap over here, nothing in-between.I think it might have been you I have seen on here talking about Quick products on here, do you have one yourself, also any recommended places in Poland to order from?Quote from: wraper on September 18, 2015, 03:11:46 pm

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:16:39 pm
content: Cheers for your reply, I don't want something with an Iron on it and no offence to yourself but I want something a little better in qualityI have had a hot air station, I used Hakko and Pace, but don't have one at the moment, so need to get one ASAPQuote from: quantalume on September 18, 2015, 03:12:52 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:18:09 pm
content: http://www.programatory.com/index.php?p423,stacja-lutownicza-quick-861ds-esd-hot-air-1kw-120l-minhttp://mediasort.pl/-p-424.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:24:24 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 18, 2015, 03:14:13 pmLikely it was me, also nanofrog posted some comment from PM I sent to him and some pictures I taken.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:04:43 pm
content: I tried those two stores, neither have a ship to the UK option, I have also mailed them but no answer.So looking for a UK based seller or an alternative...All that's on my Radar atm is a Atten 850d or 852d? No idea of the difference, 852d looks a bit too simple inside.Aoyue 852+ or 857+Xytronics LF-852 overpriced at RSAny alternatives, I want something that actually works, I can't find out what is better out of Atten and Aoyue, which one has a dual diaphragm pump and has the best temp control etc.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:15:46 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 03:04:43 pmWait, do you expect an answer on Saturday/Sunday? Mediasort definitely have shipped abroad.EDIT: just checked Mediasort - they don't show shipping options if selecting anything non Poland. But I bought from there few years ago.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 20, 2015, 03:15:46 pmI tried on Friday, thought they might have replied yesterday?... Maybe I'm a bit to impatient

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:22:08 pm
content: http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering/desoldering-hot-air-rework/esd-safe-cpu-controlled-smd-hot-air-rework-station-csi-825a/

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:29:59 pm
content: That's a Aoyure 852+ (in the old case)Have you got any experience of this unit Monkeh?, I found the 852A+ on offer for £86.49 plus shipping.Quote from: Monkeh on September 20, 2015, 03:22:08 pm

author: nightmechanic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:32:46 pm
content: I don't know if it's relevant , I got from eBay at the time, from an HK seller that claimed to ship worldwide.I have an Aoyue 857a++,So far I am very satisfied with it, although it is my first hot air station so I cannot compare it to the other contenders, ( I do not do much rework at work - we have professionals for that? so I can't comment on the pro stuff either... Sorry)In any case, it has a ?turbine " pump (what ever that means) and not a diaphragm one.When I got it, I measured the temp control which seemed to be rather accurate, at about 15mm from the air outlet.You can find some pics here:http://www.ittsb.eu/forum/index.php?topic=636.0(Not mine).Let me know if you want more info and I will try to help.Ran

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:34:52 pm
content: Checkedhttp://www.programatory.com/They have an option to select "Europe: Polish Post" and "Europe: courier EMS"Then just write your country inside the shipping address.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 03:29:59 pmNone, but you asked for a UK seller.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 03:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: nightmechanic on September 20, 2015, 03:32:46 pmHave worked with Aoyue stations, well they work. But compared to Quick, overall they suck, especially reliability of the heating element.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 18, 2015, 03:11:46 pm+1I'm also seeing it available on alibaba (861DW), so that might be an option in a pinch.FWIW, I've a 110V version and am quite happy with it's performance. Similar to a Hakko FR-810 in fact (features as well), but at a fraction of the cost.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 20, 2015, 04:03:32 pmI don't think it's a good idea to get it from China. As I've seen they are quiet expensive if ordering there + you'd get a VAT + custom duties on top when importing into UK.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:35:21 pm
content: when searching google for something in the UK do "search item for " then add after it >site:.co.ukhere is just one placehttp://www.somersetsolders.com/quick-861da-smd-rework-station/p274

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:41:17 pm
content: Ah right, was looking for a UK seller of QuickQuote from: Monkeh on September 20, 2015, 03:36:25 pm

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:42:42 pm
content: Thank you for the link, was wondering what it looked like inside!How long have you had it, is the heat and airflow good? Does it tell you on the display what level of air you have set it to?Quote from: nightmechanic on September 20, 2015, 03:32:46 pmAnother thing I need to take in to consideration, a lot of these units made in China are for 220v, I am 245v here sometimes 250v. Elements might not last as long

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:45:01 pm
content: Yeah spotted that earlier, but trying to work out the EU price as a comparison, that seems a little pricey?Quote from: Deathwish on September 20, 2015, 04:35:21 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:48:12 pm
content: At the same time as Deathwish, figured out to try advanced search.http://www.pmtech.co.uk/desoldering-tool-861da-esd-lead-free.htmlIn the UK 861DA seem to be available. It's not exactly counterpart of 861DS with UK mains plug but a bit more powerful model. 1.3 kW vs 1 kW, 6-200 l/min vs 1-120 l/min. More expensive, though higher max airflow is better when blowing on the heatshrink. Higher min flow is not an issue, I never use less then 10 l/min and usually >30 l/min anyway.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:52:55 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 20, 2015, 04:16:32 pmOnly put it out there as a potential source, should every source in Poland refuse to ship to the UK (aka last resort).FWIW, I saw a couple that had pricing ranges from $200 - $320. Assuming best case of $200, and shipping ~$60, it works out to ~167GBP before any customs fees or VAT. So ~200GBP or so?Worst case of $320 would almost certainly be unfeasible (~300GBP, which is around Somerset's price).

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:55:27 pm
content: Ah, thanks for the tips regarding searching and the links to these units, I do think I should pay a bit extra for a "Quick" looks a much better station.That looks a good unit, hopefully it can cope with UK main voltagesWill have to find out where to get the elements from as well, also tips.Quote from: wraper on September 20, 2015, 04:48:12 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:57:26 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 04:45:01 pmDon't forget that EUR and PLN exchange rate sucks now and IIRC the price in PLN remains the same as a few years ago. So considering current exchange rate, the price difference can be very high if comparing with UK.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 04:55:27 pmDon't think you'll ever need to replace heating element. As of nozzles, I'm quiet happy with 3 nozzles it came with, usually using one of medium size. If soldering some big BGAs, usually using an IR station anyway.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:03:25 pm
content: Yeah, just looking at PLN to GBP,EUR to GBP was good a few weeks back and bought a few things from the EU, will check again today.Found another UK seller, this looks an interesting device:http://www.ams-electronics.co.uk/shop/soldering-rework-quick/quick-860d-hot-air-desolder-tool/They also sell a lot of Quick products and I guess if I go for the 861DA that's probably designed for UK voltage hence higher wattage and also can get the correct replacement heating elements over here too.Quote from: wraper on September 20, 2015, 04:57:26 pm

author: Godzil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:05:52 pm
content: You shouldn't worry too much about 220 vs 250V, at there is a transformer and working voltage are generally about 12 to 24v, the difference won't be that high, especially since temperature are controlled (or should be), and all other lower voltage stuff use a regulator. Maybe some cheap stuff are really made for 220V, but I strongly suspect that they are qualified for 230/240V.For exemple, in France we tend to say 220V for the main voltage, but it is really 230V.By the way, the UK should be at 230V ?!

author: nightmechanic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:06:09 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 04:42:42 pmI have had it for almost a year now, did several small reflow projects as well as "generic " hot air stuff (heat shrink tubing etc.) as well as abut of SMT repair/replacement .The heat range and air flow so far were good enough for me, never needed to get to the maximum of either, the air flow indication is just a relative number as far as I can tell, I do not know how it relates to actual liters/min etc. in any case it is rated much lower vs the quick stations you are looking at (only 23 liter/min).Yes, it shows both the set temp and airflow when setting them and the actual (well, whatever is measured by the control loop) air temp the rest of the time.Ran

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:11:02 pm
content: UK was always around 240v+When we agreed to harmonise with the EU we just cheated and said 230V AC +10% to -6%. Historically the domestic voltage was 240 V +/-6%I'm 245-250v (250v max is what was seen)here, it has caused issues with some products, but nothing I can do about it as I am in the correct voltage range as far as the electricity company are concerned.Quote from: Godzil on September 20, 2015, 05:05:52 pm

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:13:11 pm
content: That's good it displays temp and also the flow, it doesn't really matter what number flow it displays or what measurement it's handy to look at the screen and set to known working numbers that you have usedrather than doing it blind. Would be pain to guess every time you used itQuote from: nightmechanic on September 20, 2015, 05:06:09 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:16:37 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 05:03:25 pmIt's only good for very tiny stuff. So for general purpose it is useless in many cases, only good if using as additional tool.QuoteIt's not specially for UK, earlier I've seen the same 1300W 6-200 l/min with EU plug too, it was more expensive than 861DSEDIT: it's 861DE 1200W @ 220V, so -> 1300W @ 230V

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 05:03:25 pmKeep in mind this is only 120W, so only good for small stuff (i.e. cell phone repair).Edit:wraperbeat me to it.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 05:59:04 pm
content: Ah yes, I see the element wattage now, 120w, that would be fine for doing heatshirnkOk I need a version of the 861 thenDo you know how the temperature is controlled, is it PWM, "dimmer type control" or just on and off?Quote from: nanofrog on September 20, 2015, 05:21:05 pmQuote from: nanofrog on September 20, 2015, 05:21:05 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 06:37:41 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 20, 2015, 05:59:04 pm

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 01:16:07 am
content: Got this as a stop gap, was £94 delivered with next day. I have a job that needs to be done so needed one ASAP, if it's no good I'll just use it for heatshrinkinghttp://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-852a-smd-rework-station.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 08:49:11 am
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 21, 2015, 01:16:07 amIt's a junk, especially for that money. I think, you have a wrong idea about heatshrink, it is the case when high airflow is needed. You cannot just set a higher temp to do the job fast, it will just damage it.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 09:02:49 am
content: I got this, came next day. does all I want it too. £26http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/858D-SMD-Soldering-Iron-Desoldering-Station-Hot-Air-Rework-Gun-3-Nozzles-/331330745304?hash=item4d24d9f3d8

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 09:05:17 am
content: You could of got the 998D as well.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMD-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-TOOL-936-858D-998D-UK-Plug-/360910237040?var=&hash=item5407ed2d70

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 09:50:29 am
content: £26 that's not bad at all! Unfortunately I can't get on with the fan in hand piece style, I'm used to using the pump in base model.Good prices from that seller though, and the 998d would be no use as I have too many irons already, Weller WS80/WSP81 and a Hakko 951, plus some others lol.I had a discount code for the Aoyue, compared a load of them and that seemed okay for the money.I notice you have the same flag as me, I'm in Newport S-Wales, how about you? I haven't seen many others from our country on hereQuote from: Deathwish on September 21, 2015, 09:05:17 amQuote from: Deathwish on September 21, 2015, 09:02:49 am

author: Godzil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 10:10:02 am
content: I had a really bad experience with the "cheap" hot air with the pump inside the main box, it was really noisy the airflow was really bad and moving this stuff needed to be really carfull because the pump wasn't correctly tighten to the main chassis, there where only one screw for transport, nothing more.And for the Atten 858D+, even if it's not something 100% reliable, be sure to order an Atten branded one, with the ad clearly stating it's an Atten and the picture show also Atten, this would not give you 100% confidence, not buying the floor price is also a way to escape the dangerous clones. That's what I did two month ago, because I really needed an hotair station, and I get the exact same model as the one Date reviewed.But of course the first thing I did was to take it apart and check the internal

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 10:14:46 am
content: Which "cheap" diaphragm unit did you have?Quote from: Godzil on September 21, 2015, 10:10:02 am

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 10:20:26 am
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 21, 2015, 09:50:29 amThat is because not everyone is in a newport state of mind and I'm in North Wales, where the real Welsh people live, you know, the Nationalists, and erm yeah, the sheep - coats on legs

author: Godzil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 10:26:17 am
content: Can't remember the exact brand, but it was sold on farnell, you know some crapish "rework station" that come also with a soldering iron, it was all analog, for both temperature and airflow (and soldering iron temperature too, the tip died in just a few month of use, it was my previous job that bought that because it was cheap.(I don't think it was branded atten or the Farnel brand)Something looking similar to this one:http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi906.html

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 10:30:28 am
content: There is a saying that is used in the valley above me "Where men are men and sheep are scared"Quote from: Deathwish on September 21, 2015, 10:20:26 am

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 10:43:51 am
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 21, 2015, 10:30:28 amObviously the sheep down there are not up to speed then, round here they walk about with lipstick and stockings on and charge.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 07:47:24 pm
content: Quote from: Godzil on September 21, 2015, 10:10:02 amFWIW, that type of pump is usually mounted with rubber isolators rather than screws (shipping screw should be the only one).As per airflow, others have reported low airflow to discover it was something simple and easily fixed without having to return anything IIRC (i.e. pinched hose, hole in hose/leak, debris in the line/s, ... types of things).

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 07:56:40 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 20, 2015, 03:36:25 pmI bought sevral times from them, grade A seller!!! Very happy with their prroducts!

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 12:58:00 pm
content: Aoyue 852a+ has arrived with me, not sure if this a design flaw or a faulty unit, when it pulses the element the pump speed goes up and down so the air rate is not constantHere is a video:

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:14:36 pm
content: When the ball bounces, does this make a gust of air that blow parts off the board?I wouldn't worry about it, unless it does. I expect when the heater goes on, your mains is experiencing a slight voltage drop, no different then what happens to your shop vac when you turn on your table saw. If the flow meter wasn't there, would you have even noticed?

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 09:27:21 pm
content: Yes it's quite significant, it happens as the heater goes on and off and you can hear the pump change and the air flow changes dramatically.I was doing some work on a motherboard and it was causing me issues.I sent the video to the seller and they said it should not do this and tested one there.Voltage today was a solid 242Vac.Quote from: KL27x on September 22, 2015, 08:14:36 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 09:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 22, 2015, 09:27:21 pmIf it has removable mains cable with IEC plug, try to change it. I've seen some fake cables with super thin wires which caused very high cable resistance. AFAIK that diaphragm pump is powered directly from the mains voltage through basically dimmer and there must be voltage sag somewhere. Did you measure the mains voltage in the same socket while station was operating?

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 11:12:06 pm
content: Something is wrong with the design, the pump goes faster when the heater voltage is appliedMains power is not fluctuating, checked at the hot air station and the mains socket, rock solid 242Vac, seems the voltage to the heater is pulsed (you can see the heater doing this) and the pump is just controlled via voltage like a light dimmer, but when the heater gets pulsed so does the pump, it makes a pulsing sound!I've seen some tear down pics of this unit, very basic, looks as if it's all controlled by a very small Atmega on the LED board, no logic on the rear main board just triacs and optocouplers etc, 4 diodes for rectification (how much did they save by not fitting a rectifier lol)Would love to see the insides of the black version of this unit or the CSI 825.In fact, I think we should have a hot air thread with their clothes off, I want to see a Genuine Atten 850d and 852d, Aoyue 852A+/++ (Black version) Tenma 850d and REALLY want to see the insides of a the newer style Xytronic LF852D (Claims to have 40l/min pump and 600w heater)Quote from: wraper on September 22, 2015, 09:55:54 pm

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 03:34:59 pm
content: Replacement has arrived, doesn't have that issue. But this one vibrates too muchI can feel it through my work bench!

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 04:09:43 pm
content: I'm glad I picked up a Leister buried in the middle of a huge job lot of junk. Hate to think how much they cost new.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 04:10:17 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on September 23, 2015, 03:34:59 pmThat sucks.Perhaps it's time to cut your losses and cobble a good unit out of the two bad ones, then send the remaining defective parts/unit (assembled) back in order to make your deadline.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 09:45:10 pm
content: Bad one has gone back, though I think this one might be normal and the bad one had quite a balanced pump, looking on youtube this sounds about the same.Temp control seems good on it, will give it a good run and see if it beds in a bit.Quote from: nanofrog on September 23, 2015, 04:10:17 pm