Keysight U5855A TrueIR thermal imager - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 03:44:40 am
content: Keysight has been selling off a bunch of U5855A used/demo machines on ebay. I negotiated what I think was a great price for one and received it the other day.They have various combo's, mine included the hardcase, a new battery, AC charger/power cord, USB cable and the manual. The only things missing from my set compared to a new/complete kit was the RCA video cable and the SDcard. The RCA cable is worth nothing and I have lots of SDcards kicking around.All of the ones being sold are from 2014 or so and were Agilent branded originally.The units are all made in Japan and appear to be made byTesto.NEC/AvioThe image sensor is 160x120 but uses movement and multiple samples to give you a 320x240 image.It offers a visual camera overlay, has a laser pointer and regular white LED flashlight builtin.You can stream images to a PC via USB using free Keysight software that offers data logging etc.It will focus as close as 10cm from an object.Here are some sample shots.First are some edge mounted through-hole PCBs in an HP 5340A 18 GHz frequency counterSecond, third, and 4th are cat related - you gotta love the residual paw prints5th is my Rubidium standard which is mounted in a finned aluminum case6th is my Trimble GPSDO which is mounted in a plastic box and sitting on a 10 MHz distribution amp7th is my Keysight 3000T series scope which has not been powered on - this just shows the wasted power when off8th is the same shot with the visual camera overlay enabled - sometimes the parallax error is pretty bad, other times it is fine

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 03:48:08 am
content: Some pics of the kit:

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 04:12:46 am
content: A few more shotsFirst is showing the LM399(or similar) reference in a Keithley 2700 6.5 digit DMMSecond is the entire PCBThird is the same shot with the camera overlay(30% transparency)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 10:21:44 am
content: As a side note, you got a great deal as I offered the same money as you for a unit without any accessories or battery and they declined and made a counter offer which was more than I wanted to spend on an incomplete unit.I think you got yourself a really great deal there.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 05:04:06 pm
content: Well I now have one of these cameras on the way to me nowI got into some negotiations with Keysight and they are shipping a camera to me, without accessories, for no shipping charge. They could not match the price that 'The Steve' paid but I got close enough to be happy.Now I need to collect together some accessories for the camera. Most are generic but some are going to be a bit harder to source, namely the Lithium Battery. I suspect the battery is very similar to those used in camcorders. It looks close to the design of a JVC Li-Ion battery.I will need to provide the following to compete the kit......1. Battery2. Battery Charger/AC adapter3. USB A to Mini lead4. RCA video lead5. SD card6. Carry caseAs can be seen, most of the above are easy to source and I already have most of the list in my spares stock.Now I need the help of 'The Steve'It would be great to have some pictures of the Li-Ion battery from all sides+The dimensions of battery and locations of its contacts that mate inside the camera+The details written on the AC adapter + the size and polarity of the AC adapter plug.Why did I buy this particular camera ?1. It is a decent quality unit carrying the Keysight brand name.2. Decent specifications3. The Super Resolution mode is included as standard4. The Super Resolution increases displayed detail and reduces noise content5. The lens is manual focus down to 10cm6. The free software provided for it looks excellent with facilities that I do not already have on my other cameras.7. The camera offers USB video streaming + composite video output8. It was relatively cheap, and delivery to the UK is freeMy thanks to 'The Steve' for bringing these cameras to my attention last week.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 05:36:20 pm
content: Great to hear Fraser - it is always worth negotiating a little. I suspect the best price they can offer takes into account what it will cost them to ship the item. I assume they get a very good discount to North America because of the volume they do. I also negotiate pretty aggressively(or maybe it's just that I whine a lot)I'm happy to get you the details needed on the battery. I can already tell you it is made of two 18650 Li cells in series. I'll gather further info shortly and post the details.So far I'm very happy with the camera, and I admit it - I'm a sucker for HP/Agilent/Keysight branded gear.Someday you need to take a picture of your entire thermal camera collection.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 05:48:05 pm
content: @'TheSteve'I think you are right about shipping cost coming into the equation when considering offers. They originally offered me the camera at $599 inc shipping but I declined. Today I paid $525.They have sold quite a few of the cameras with no accessories....... In my past experience these are likely the units that are sent out to customers to replace failed cameras. I bought some HP LogicDart's a few years ago and they were all new and sealed, yet carried a label saying "Refurbished". I checked and found out that they were in fact brand new and the "Refurbished" label was just standard exchange practice as they did not guarantee a new for old exchange.I suspect this camera model may be about to be replaced with a new one so they are clearing out the spares holding.I already own a nice TESTO 880-1 camera and shall compare them once the unit arrives. Interestingly, IIRC the Super Resolution firmware upgrade for my Testo 880 cost around $1200. So double what I just paid for a camera with the capability operational as standardThe 880 may be rehomedFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 06:08:36 pm
content: This is the JVC format of battery that I am hoping to modify to fit the U5855A.The Keysight battery costs around £100 here so a cheaper, more common battery type would be better if I can modify one to fit.I also attach one of the few images I could find of the Keysight battery.Fraser

author: loxodes
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 06:42:49 pm
content: Keysight accepted my $450.55 offer for a shipped U5855A with no accessories, I'm expecting the camera to arrive on TuesdayIt didn't include a power adapter or battery. I think the Keysight power brick is 2.1 mm center positive 12 V, 3 A. I'm going to try using a spare 12 V brick.I picked up a U5752A battery from Allied Electronics ($120 shipped...), here are a few pictures for anyone trying to source a cheaper alternative:

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:15:48 pm
content: The adapter is simply a Keysight qualified part(they don't make it) - it is a DVE DSA-42D-12 12 volt 3 amp supply, center positive jack.The battery sure looks like it is used on other products. It has the side shoe type locking tabs which are not used in the U5855A.The battery is exactly 70x39x22mm. As can be seen in the battery compartment the battery needs to have contacts on the end to make contact with the pogo pins in the camera.The "S" sense pin appears to be tied to the positive output through a 7.7 K resistor.The "T" temperature pin is connected to negative through a NTC thermistor which has 11.5K at around 20 degrees C.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:19:49 pm
content: The battery door and charger.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:21:24 pm
content: @Loxodes,Many thanks for the pictures. Sadly the battery does look to be a custom format and not one 'borrowed' from the camcorder world. A pity but not necessarily a show stopper on adapting one to suit. The battery in the will cost me about the same as you paid. I may yet buy the OEM battery.You message kind of confirms my suspicions. To ship the camera from Malaysia to the UK via FEDEX or UPS is not cheap, but obviously Keysight have an account and get discount. $450 is a good price. That was what I originally offered and the counter offer was $599 ! Glad I did not accept on that occasion. These cameras offer excellent value for money in the current market. It is not always about the resolution figure, much depends upon the quality of the microbolometer and opticsA good quality 160 x 120 pixel camera can outperform a poor quality 320 x 240 pixel camera. A marginal quality or poorly constructed lens can ruin a microbolometers ability to produce a good image. The U5855A has the 'Fine Resolution' AKA Super Resolution mode to assist in providing greater detail when hand held. It will be interesting to play with that mode and see how well it performs.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:31:53 pm
content: @TheSteve,Thank you for the pictures and information.I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw the battery bay. It looks similar to that used on my NEC AVIO cameras ! I was so pleased to see that the battery holder was a simple shape that does not dip into the hollow in the rear of the battery.I originally thought this camera was from TESTO but another well known Japanese high quality TIC OEM is NEC/AVIO. I found a web page that mentioned the U5855A in the same heading as NEC/AVIO.https://thermal-imaging-camera.irpod.net/produkte/portable-infrared-thermal-imaging-cameras/agilent-keysight-u5855a-trueir-avio-nec-ir-cam/Could it be that this camera is a product of NEC/AVIO I wonder ? They have nothing similar in their product range though.If it is from NEC/AVIO, it will be a very high quality product.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:37:14 pm
content: The NEC/AVIO battery used in several of their cameras

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:42:58 pm
content: Here is a nice reference to NEC:

author: loxodes
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 07:53:21 pm
content: Here is anAgilentKeysight press release mentioning their collaboration with NEC Avio:http://about.keysight.com/en/newsroom/pr/2014/09jun-em14065.shtml?myAgilentEmail=&cc=DE&lc=ger

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 08:01:31 pm
content: This just gets better and better. NEC/AVIO use high quality microbolometers and lenses.I am very chuffed to get an NEC/AVIO product.Great cameraFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 08:15:22 pm
content: Any thoughts how this fits in with Testo?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 08:21:24 pm
content: @'The Steve'I thought the camera came from TESTO as it uses the 'Super Resolution' mode that TESTO came up with for their camera range. The camera also shared a resemblance to the TESTO layout. There may be no connection to TESTO at all. Just my mistaken deductions. NEC / AVIO do not offer a camera that even resembles the U5855A so I thought it unlikely that they would have been the OEM.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 08:36:24 pm
content: Makes you wonder if one company licensed the "super resolution" technology from the other.

author: sam1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 04:29:03 pm
content: This camera looks good.I wonder if anyone can hack it to 30fps?(guess not)I found the picture overlay is more dumb than Flir MSX, it's just overlay, MSX will find the outline from the visible camera and add it the the thermal image. However I'm not a fan of MSX either, I enjoy pure thermal photos

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 05:17:43 pm
content: Frame rate will be locked into FPGA code and is not modifiable. NEC/AVIO have military connections and do the frame rate lock-down properlyFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 06:12:10 pm
content: I pondered hacks to the U5855A before I bought it. There are two higher models(U5856A,U5857A) that measure to higher temps. I am quite sure they are the same hardware and it is simply a configured model number (and a matching calibration of course). I had even considered they were all calibrated over the entire range and then limited based on model number but the higher end models weren't released until after mine had been made. So the odds of mine having any cal data for higher ranges is very unlikely. I also pondered the frame rate and did have a peak in the firmware to see if there was anything super obvious. I can see some ascii references to frame rates but nothing over 9 Hz. If someone wants to have a real go at hacking it though I wouldn't complain.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 11:03:32 pm
content: The price on these has now dropped to $454 !(It has a broken strap mount)How low will these cameras go I wonder ?At these prices they should be flying out the door.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 12:36:13 am
content: Shame we can't find a cheaper source of batteries - although one could be constructed, and a case 3D printed.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 11:54:10 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 02, 2017, 11:03:32 pmWell, at least one more was left, I made an offer and it was accepted, no case no accessories, no charger.I will order a new battery from the German distributor for EUR 94,12 + MwSt = Euro 112 totalhttp://www.datatec.de/Keysight-U5752A-Akku-U5855A.htmThank youTheStevefor pointing out this great deal on the Keysight store.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 11:56:47 am
content: Once I have my camera I will look into the battery situation.The battery appears to be of standard format and as the latching lugs are not used I suspect another standard battery may be adapted to work. I have a battery tab welder so could extend the contact surfaces on to the end surface using nickel strips. These could be glued to the case and taped with Polyimide tape. Such a solution would also permit the use of the modified batteries normal external charger rather than buying the Keysight external charger.A 3D printed battery case is an option but then there is the cost of decent cells and a protection circuit. That plus the time to build might make such less desirable when an OEM battery is $120.As a side note..... I needed a relatively simple battery holder for one of my NEC AVIO F30 cameras. It holds three AA cells and contains no electronics. It is just a battery holder, not a complete battery. The price from NEV AVIO ?£90 plus a hefty delivery fee using UPS or FEDEX from Japan. Oh and the minimum order restriction meant that I could not order just one holder !Suddenly the Keysight battery does not look so expensiveI found the Keysight battery for £79 + 20% VAT but including free postage, from a supplier in the UK...... Farnell.Fraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 01:56:52 pm
content: Thanks for the tip guys! I'd been looking at these for a while before the recent price drop, but it's good to get Fraser's seal of approval. Just accepted the counter-offer of $500 +VAT including delivery for the un-broken battery-less one.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:44:52 pm
content: OK, for those who might wish to consider the DIY battery route, I have dug out my collection of Li-Ion batteries that I have for my other NEC AVIO Cameras.Surprise Surprise, the battery is the same dimensions as that used in the Keysight camera. The contacts are different though. The main power contacts are presented as tubes that take a spike contact in the camera. The S and T contacts are presented as much smaller tubes that take smaller spike contacts in the charger unit. I see these as eminently modifiablePictures follow. I have different brands including an original NEC batery, JVC and 3rd party batteries from various sources. The caliper dimensions are the MAXIMUM I could find on the battery case as some have slightly proud joint points. Such could easily be reduced with sand paper if needed.EnjoyFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:46:55 pm
content: Three shorter versions for JVC camcorders

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:48:11 pm
content: Contacts on the NEC / JVC batteries

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:49:38 pm
content: Battery dimension checks with caliper.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:50:44 pm
content: Wow, Fraser, you have lots of batteries.I ordered the original one today and got a small discount.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:51:25 pm
content: Continued

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:52:33 pm
content: Shorter battery dimensions

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 04:57:43 pm
content: @TheSteveDoes the charger have a normal connector?Can I use a generic 12V 3A charger or will I be surprised by some strange connection?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 05:03:27 pm
content: @High Voltage,I have a lot of NEC AVIO cameras and Intelligent remote control/displays that all use this model of batteryI also have the high capacity JVC belt pack Li-Ion batteries that provide the required 7.2V for long duration usageI bought a box of ten of those high capacity sets as a bulk lot so have around 15 external battery chargers in allFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 05:19:20 pm
content: The charger uses a standard2.1mm2.5mm center positive jack.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 06:39:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 02, 2017, 11:03:32 pmIf you need to measure high temperatures, they are a good deal. But if you need it for something like looking on the PCB, then not. Pictures taken are rubbish compared with cheap i3system TE – Q1. That upscaled 320x240 resolution looks more like a marketing gimmick.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 07:42:45 pm
content: Wrapper,Not up-scaling, multi image layering, very different. You have your opinion, but to call the images produced rubbish appears myopicThe mobile phone dongles produce pretty good images but they are, and always will be, a cludge of a camera bolted on to a mobile phone. Remember the money you pay just buys a camera front end, no processing or display etc. Many users want the complete self contained solution. For such a need this camera is excellent value for money.It is also worth remembering that thermography is not always about how 'pretty' the image looks after much processing, it is also about the quality of the radiometric measurements. The two are not always bedfellows !It is true that an A-Si sensor image can contain more column noise. That does not make it a poor sensor however.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 08:28:19 pm
content: I've had more time to play with the camera now and it does compensate for the parallax distortion when doing a video overlay. The trick is you do need to have the IR camera perfectly focused for it to operate well - I guess this isn't really a surprise.For those who have bought one of the cameras sold so far none of them have had the newest firmware loaded. So once you test the camera out I recommend performing the update to version 1.30 - it is quick and easy. It is also needed if you want to stream video to a PC.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 09:24:10 pm
content: @"TheSteve"Interesting. I shall load the latest firmware as, from the version notes, it seems well worth doing. I have already downloaed all firmware and software versions from the support site.With regard to IR focusing....absolutely. A poorly focused image can also cause temperature measurement errors. A manual focus camera lens normally produces far crisper images than a fixed focus lens that is providing a usable image from 30cm to infinity.It is also worth noting that a ZnSe close up lens may also be used on a manual focus lens to improve its close up capability. With ZnSe lenses available with 25mm and 50mm FL, you can get in really close to components if needed.I shall be obtaining some 20mm diameter 25mm FL lenses to experiment with. I already have some 15mm FL Germanium lenses to try out some time.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 09:37:50 pm
content: Welp, my pretty ridiculously low offer for the one with nothing and the broken strap clip was accepted after a little back-and-forth. Will be interesting to play with that and see how a "professional" camera with image blending and the lot fairs against my phone-based TE Q1.Will see if I just use the DC in jack or if I feel motivated to try and find a battery that fits, or even design and print a case for what I imagine are 2 18650s.There has to be a digital camera battery that fits as a direct replacement...My feeling is that the image quality wil be a litle less good than the Q1, but the usability and temp accuracy will be way higher. TE have made some updates to the app lately but it's still quite kludgy.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 10:08:25 pm
content: Some trivia on 'Super Resolution' for those interested.The idea is actually nothing new and dates back to at least the 1970's. It is a legitimate method of increasing the effective resolution of a cameras sensor array.In early thermal detector arrays there was a need to increase the effective resolution beyond the physical pixel count. In that period, it was common to use scanning type cameras with either one or two scan axis and one or many detector elements, depending upon the design.In a single axis scanning camera, the thermal scene may be presented to a linear array of detector pixels. If the array consists of only 50 pixels elements, the vertical height of the image produced will be 50 pixels. Now if the detector array is moved vertically such that each pixel fills the gap between the previous scan lines you effectively achieve a 100 pixel height image after two complete scans. The movement of the detector array requires a precision mechanism operating at high speeds. IIRC Piezo Electric drives were used.Now move forward to the present day and we have cameras stating that they have 160 x 120 pixels yet with a software feature they can produce 320 x 240 pixels. Interpolation is usually the first assumption by many. Whilst a legitimate way to upscale an image, it adds no real new scene data. As such it is flawed in terms of radiometric resolution. Vibrating the FPA sensor at high speed in X and Y planes is a mechanical way to increase the radiometric resolution as the image is effectively scanned to the blind area between pixels. Such a system is complex and expensive though.It was realised that hand held thermal cameras already had a source of vertical and horizontal scanning..... namely normal human hand shake ! If you imagine the camera capturing a series of images to memory as you hold it in your hand and pointing at a thermal scene, the camera will move slightly between image captures and so when overlayed one on top of the other, there will be image registration errors.The image registration errors are used by the software to effectively generate a higher resolution image that contains real radiometric data samples from the pixels, rather than interpolation.I have way over simplified the way the software handles the data but this is not just simple image layering as that would likely cause poor image sharpness and blurring. If you mount the camera on a tripod so that it cannot move, the resolution enhancement algorithms have little to work with in terms of camera movement and resultant registration errors in the captured image group. The registration errors are essential to the correct operation of the process.Before people shout that at 9fps such stacking will severely reduce real time image update rate...... no one said the process needs to operate at the cameras display update rate of <9fps. A microbolometer can be run at 30fps or higher and the images used for Super Resolution can be grabbed out of that high frame rate data stream before the <9fps limitation is imposed on the displayed data. In such a case, the user would notice little or no reduction in frame rate when using the Super Resolution mode. Any decrease would be due to a lack of image processing power in the cameras computer.So I hope this helps explain Super Resolution to those who were unaware of how it functions. Interpolation it is notIs it a gimmick ? Well those who used it in the early days of thermal imaging when sensor arrays were seriously low resolution, did not think so. It was a vital and effective means to increase the true pixel data content in an image. Interpolation just 'guesses' the value of a non-existent pixel between others. Good for pretty images, bad for collecting real thermal scene data where every pixel is providing data that is being analysed by the user.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 10:35:07 pm
content: @Kilrah,Glad you got a good deal.Please be aware that these cameras are not what I would class as 'Professional'. They are more like 'entry level' or for Semi-Pro user such as electricians or plumbers. That is because they are using a 160 x 120 pixel microbolometer that needs software to increase its effective resolution.'Professional' Industrial cameras tend to be 320 x 240 pixel resolution or higher and employ very high quality microbolometerand optical blocks. They are very robustly constructed and maintain their accuracy or a very long service life without the need for re-calibration.You get what you pay for with thermal imaging cameras. Entry level units like the FLIR Ex series and these Keysight cameras are more than good enough for many users, but likely not what a serious Thermographer would choose to earn their living.Other professional cameras are those found in laboratories that cost an arm and a leg, and those used in Fire Fighting. Both are very different to this camera and for good reasonWhy do i think this camera is good value ?1. It is a complete solution containing all elements needed to display and store meaningful radiometric images2. The camera has manual focus with a close focus range of only 100mm3. The camera contains a quality 160 x 120 pixel microbolometer - good for many tasks.4. 'Fine Resolution' mode is provided free of charge5. There is a composite video output for live monitoring on a large display or to drive a video transmitter6. The camera is capable of video streaming from the USB port7. The image analysis software is comprehensive in its content and is free ! No silly upgrade fee like FLIR Tools+8. Using the supplied software, thermal scene profiling is possible with ease.9. The camera contains both IR and visible light cameras and has a white light illuminator for dark areas10. It costs only $525 (£437) and requires no hacking. Yes you need to buy/make a battery, but it is still very cheap indeed.So all of the above tell me that this camera, on offer from Keysight, will make a very worthy addition to many techie tool kits. It s versatile and let no one tell you 160 x 120 pixels is not enough to do some pretty serious thermography at home ! Early cameras I use were only 128 x 128 pixels and I still managed to do my job well. The 'Fine Resolution' mode is a significant bonus, but even without such, you will be hard pressed to find a complete camera solution of this quality and spec for $525.I wonder how many Keysight have to sell.I know from speaking to them that each camera has been individually inspected and has a file on their computer stating its condition etc. A grand clear-out of demo units maybe ? Some have obviously been used, but lightly, whilst others look new.Fraser

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 10:44:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 03, 2017, 10:08:25 pmRegardless of the way how it functions, posted thermal images don't show anything particularly good about it. Actually they don't look that much better than those made by my Flir i7 with 140x140 resulution.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 11:04:54 pm
content: You are looking at images taken by new owners who have yet to fully explore the cameras capabilities. I am not certain whether the 'Fine resolution' mode was active in the provided pictures and 'TheSteve' has already explained that his focus setting was not optimal for the images.When mine arrives I will be happy to put it through its paces and get the best images that I can from it.The new owners will soon find their feet with the camera and be able to tune the span and levels for best image quality.I do not think those who posted claimed that they were producing the best images possible with the camera. Let us wait and seeWith regard to the newer i7, that is actually a higher resolution camera than the Keysight in terms of physical pixels 140 x 140 is higher resolution than 160 x 120. But that is just me splitting hairsA 160 x 120 pixel camera will never 'blow your socks off' but it can still produce perfectly decent thermal images.When it comes down to it, as i have stated, $525 for a complete camera is darned cheap, even for 160 x 120 pixels ! The E4 is still my recommended ; bargain' complete camera solution as it can be upgraded to its full 320 x 240 resolution plus additional menus. However, the Keysight camera has the advantage of price, analytical software, SD card memory, Video output, USB streaming and manual focus to 10cm.As you have stated, some of the Dongle type cameras produce very pretty images. No doubt about that. Are they perfect ? Nope. Are they convenient and ergonomic ? Not in my opinion but users have differing needs. The dongles are just a part of a thermal imaging solution. The other part is the powerful smart phone that does the hard work of turning the raw image data from the dongle into pretty pictures. Such phones can be very expensive.IMHO, there will be at least three Camps when it comes to thermal camera solutions1. The complete 'all in one' solution - pick up and use, no apps or phones to mess around with2. The Phone Dongle solution that is 'diminutive' and for some convenient to attach to their powerful smart phone (watch out for incoming calls though)3. The complete camera and dongle solution - to suit differing situations.I fall into the last group. I use all types of thermal camera from Pro Industrial, right down to the FLIR ONE G2. They all have their place in terms of usefulness. I will not 'knock' any solution as it is very much a preference thing fro users of the technology. If someone is in Camp 1 however, I would not be suggesting that they buy a phone dongle solutionFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 01:05:27 am
content: End of the day it is still a 160x120 sensor so the image was never going to knock anyone's socks off. I am very pleased so far though for my needs. I really wanted a standalone device that didn't need a phone to operate. It easily displays hot spots on PCB's, finds areas with poor insulation in my house and can locate my cat in the backyard in total darkness when he tries to be sneaky.

author: mrrrwhat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 03:06:04 am
content: Can it be power on by power supply without battery?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 03:52:58 am
content: Quote from: mrrrwhat on April 04, 2017, 03:06:04 amYes it can.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 07:19:56 am
content: I am lucky, my KeysightE5810B, GPIB to LAN to USB Gateway uses the very same same charger / power supply.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 07:25:58 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 03, 2017, 10:35:07 pmYeah well, bad wording maybe but I mean one that's designed as a proper tool for people to work with by a real instrumentation manufacturer with the associated qualities rather than those more akin to toys e.g. Seek Reveal...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 02:43:49 am
content: I think I have found the NEC camera from which teh U5855A was developed. The NEC-AVIO G30Datasheetshttp://www.couriertronics.com/docs/NEC/SOLTEC-NEC%20Avio%20G30%20Thermo%20Gear.pdfhttps://waermebildkamera.irpod.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/necavio_f20-f30-g30.pdfPictures attachedThe U5855A is a definite improvement on that G30 design thoughFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 03:37:58 am
content: Some quick internal pics of the cam, it is easy to open, just the 6 JIS screws on the front - all machine thread with rubber gaskets. Just be careful of the rubber gasket and interconnect cables when splitting the halves.As can be seen one of the PCB's is marked "AVIO", the main FPGA is a Cyclone III - EP3C25F32417N.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 03:39:59 am
content: And a few more thermal shots - the grey scale seems not to bad.

author: amv
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 07:27:18 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 03, 2017, 10:08:25 pmhi FraserI have been following the thermal imaging treads for a couple of years, and it has definetlytaught me a lot about TIC´s and how they work. I must admit that some of the stuff you and others make theese things do, is over my head, but very interesting to follow.So i just want to thank you for writing posts like "some trivia on super resolution" it really makes it easy - at least for me - to understand the underlaying things that goes on inside, and in this case how a relative "low" pixel bolometer actually can produce impresive radiometric correct pictures.I know that you have other things you need to do, but please dont stop making theese very inlightning posts, i think we are a lot of people in here whom really enjoy them.Have a nice dayJan

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 03:38:55 am
content: Nobody else has received their camera yet?A couple more pictures to amuse myself.Bonus points if you can tell me exactly what car I have.last pic is a reflection off some stainless steel on the front of my BBQ.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 07:11:18 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 11, 2017, 03:38:55 amI got notification by Keysight Germany, that my camera will be shipped this week and should be at my place by next week, right after Easter.Your pictures are looking great!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 01:10:05 pm
content: Mine arrived this morning. Still in box though. No time to check it yetFraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 01:20:23 pm
content: Mine shipped (from Malaysia?) 8th April according to eBay, so presumably it will be a while yet

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 01:23:28 pm
content: Shipping is very fast. Mine shipped Thursday., arrived todayFraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 01:55:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 11, 2017, 01:23:28 pmI once flew from KL to London, on a nearly-empty flight (therefore high) with a window seat, 'starboard home'. The sky was cloudless from halfway up the Malayan peninsula to the Caspian. The views were stunning - the Thai coast; the Andaman islands; the excitement of seeing India for the first time, and realising just how big it is; recognising the Red Fort and the Taj Mahal at Agra; and always the distant, vast Himalayas; the Afghan mountains looking (from that height) for all the world like Wales; the plains of ancient Khorasan. Then cloud all the way to HeathrowI hope my thermal imager enjoys its flight!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 03:17:28 pm
content: For those waiting to hear about my experiences with the Keysight U5855A.Please be advised that my family suffered a death yesterday and my wife and i are mourning our loss. It will take some time to get life back on an 'even keel' I ask for your patience.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 03:48:26 pm
content: Just a very quick observation for owners of this camera wanting a neat 'soft' carry case for it.My E4 soft case fits the U5855A like it was designed for it ! Perfect fit with all the bulges in the right placesThe E4 soft case can often be found cheaply on ebay. I paid £17 for mine. They are very nice, high quality cases.Fraser

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 08:14:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 03, 2017, 11:04:54 pmI'd actually add a 4th option here: thermal imaging "cores". By these I mean the Tau2, ICI 9640, Optris Pi etc. These all require an additional processing system such as a PC or laptop.Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 08:43:43 pm
content: Absolutely. The cores offer the possibility of custom solutions to suit the users needs. In the case of some cores they are plug and play with an initial configuration via a PC, then just power and a display needed for fully automatic operation. Such is commonly found in fire fighting cameras that basically have an on/off button with range, span and level all auto adjusting under the cores own built in 'intelligence'.Cores tend to be for OEM's and thermal imaging hobbyists though. They are not a complete solution and need a case as a minimum. Wonderful for experimentation thoughFraser

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 08:51:14 pm
content: We've got quite a few cores now, so always good fun to play with, I'll list them here, but probably best to start a new post shortly:Workswell WIRIS 2 (Tau2)Optris TIM450Optris TIM640ICI 9640 x2ICI 8640 (modded Tau2)FLIR A655scAll these posts about the keysight camera is really tempting me, however I think I've skipped over the link to buy one?Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2017, 09:00:06 pm
content: Just search eBay.com for Keysight U5855A and you will find a seller named Keysight. That is the real Keysight disposals branch and they are great to do business with. I had a query about my camera and emailed them. I received a phone call from a really great chap at Keysight USA a few hours later. Issue resolved. You could not wish for better supportMy camera is Ex Demo but has not been abused. They are inspected and a report written on each before sale. The battery remains the only challenge as most cameras come without the battery, PSU etc. All the accessories except the battery are easy to source cheaply.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2017, 05:32:06 pm
content: Mine was shipped yesterday and is scheduled to arrive in the country tonight... should have it tomorrow with a bit of luck, if not it's gonna wait in some warehouse until Tuesday obviously...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2017, 06:47:52 pm
content: Expect a pretty large box measuring 48cm x 34cm x 30cm.Inside you will find the camera covered in packing paper and cocooned in plastic covered expanding foam pillows.It is VERY well protectedFraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2017, 07:40:02 pm
content: I found the Keysight official battery on sale for £55 at RS Components, stock number 877-3153. Cheap enough not to worry about too much.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2017, 08:00:57 pm
content: Sadly battery now out of stock. On back order until 7/7/2017Good price

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2017, 08:12:42 pm
content: Damn, unfortunately I never found the time to look at one!Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2017, 12:14:00 pm
content: Guess nfmax snatched the last oneNo luck here, got delayed, scheduled to fly in today now. No playing over the long weekend...I found 2 old 18650s laying around, and ordered a small 2s BMS form China. Since the camera apparently charges the battery form the DC in supply it seems it's not a requirement to remove the battery... so I'll probably just wire that up permanently inside. Might still design a 3D printed case if there's enough room to fit the BMS in, just got a new printer that needs "testing", would also be a chance to improve my lacking 3D design skills on complex parts...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2017, 05:09:54 pm
content: Yes at least the battery is pretty conventional in design. The ones I dislike most are those that contain a microcontroller that not only manages the battery safety, but also provides a unique ID to the host. I have some very expensive VR headsets that will not boot or charge the battery unless the 'intelligent' battery microcontroller is present. When the Li-Ion cells dies, the controller deletes the unique ID rendering it, and the battery casing. useless !It was a way of forcing users to purchase the extortionately expensive OEM batteries.Fraser

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2017, 06:54:17 pm
content: Datatec Germany has them in stock, at least that is what I was told, when I placed my order.But I have not seen it so far.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2017, 08:35:26 pm
content: Well my battery has arrivedBut not the imager itselfI assume it won't be delivered until Tuesday at the earliest, now!

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 12:38:58 pm
content: Hey guys, I'm curious how you guys got to this, when I check their store, I see the shipping to Europe is excluded?What am I missing

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 01:11:38 pm
content: This is an interesting thread, I've been looking at these cameras and dithering for a while - I couldn't make up my mind as to whether or not they were good value so it is useful to have expert opinion. But sadly the cheaper ones are now gone I think.They are currently asking $1,049.10 for one with battery and hard case. This is almost twice the prices mentioned here for the ones without batteries and so on.Given that the battery is not new, it seems a large price differential. I can't see them accepting anything less than $800+ and with 20%VAT/import duty the cost is likely to be near £800 or more.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 01:14:24 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on April 14, 2017, 12:38:58 pmhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-U5855A-TrueIR-Thermal-Camera-Imager-350-degree-Celsius-Agilent-/172622305668?hash=item2831175984:g:D9YAAOSwB-1Y7kfUThis one is listed for free shipping worldwide

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 01:17:19 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on April 14, 2017, 01:14:24 pmThanks! But its not the case, if i clickShips to: Worldwide See exclusionsexclusions, there is only a handfull of countries they actually ship. None of them Europe

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 02:06:35 pm
content: Just send them a message on ebay and they will take care of you.Don't worry, many people here from Europe have bought one.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 02:34:41 pm
content: Mine was listed as local pickup only. A quick message to the seller confirmed no problem with free shipping to the UK. Just UK VAT to add as a Keysight pre-pay that for you so no bond warehouse delays on entry to the UKShipping to the UK was via DHL.The battery is around £100 normal retail price from Farnell.Power supply is just a common 12V 3A unit. I have an Ex P,exstor compact, but good quality PSU bought used for £5 delivered.RCA to RCA video cable costs around £1 from China,USB A to mini USB cable is also cheap from ChinaSD card is easily found cheaply on the high streetPC software is a free download from Keysight.The complete kit offers the advantage of all parts included and a nice hard case. Plus documentation etc.I am using a FLIR E4 soft case for my camera so do not need the hard case.Fraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 05:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 02, 2017, 11:03:32 pmbought one as-well, now what the hell am i gonna do with it

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 05:06:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 14, 2017, 02:34:41 pmCan you use that for charging as-well (when the battery is inserted)? Or does it needs to be charged externally? (didn't read the manual)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 05:52:18 pm
content: Battery is charged inside the camera, but an external charging dock is available as an accessory.The manual is well worth a read as this camera has some nice features and some pretty good PC software for analysis of the images and thermal profile of a scene. Some similar FLIR software costs more than I paid for the U5855A camera !Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 06:01:43 pm
content: I have one on the way also, just a bare unit.Finding the battery has been difficult in the US, I've placed on on order but shows a May 28th ship date.Has anyone gone to a place like Batteries+ and try to find one that works?When this one gets here I may take it over there along with the pictures of the factory battery and see if I can find a match.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 07:58:44 pm
content: The battery looks a a heck of a lot like a common camera battery, but with contacts just different enough to make it proprietary/non interchangeable.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2017, 08:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 13, 2017, 05:09:54 pmSadly using 'common' batteries is a nightmare of the manufacturer meeting all the legal stuff that goes with making and selling things. Just because you can buy a 'Battery #1' in the shops does not mean I can produce a product to use 'Battery #1' and it is 'safe' to sell and get a CE mark / OSHA etc.The easiest way out is to make your own battery and then you are pushed by to prevent the use of 'unauthorised' batteries, and of course copying 'Battery #1' s design would be infringement, and 'Battery #1' company won't tell you as then they become implicated in your product liabilities.Bill

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 07:00:05 pm
content: OK, today I received the U5855A from Keysight, very well packed.The Battery has not arrived but I could turn the camera ON with a 12V 3A power supplyThe outside of the camera looks like new and the screen protector was still applied to the screen and after removing it, the screen looks like new.But a few bad items I noticed1. The strap holder is broken at the bottom2. The front switch is so tight or broken, that it is staying stuck, every time I push it in.Anyone here have had the same problems?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 07:39:14 pm
content: I know Keysight has been selling quite a few with a broken strap holder - was yours listed as such, if not they should replace it or refund some money.As for the front switch I assume you mean the trigger button? Mine isn't tight at all, when squeezed you can hear the click of the button it is pressing. The trigger can move around a little though.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 07:51:40 pm
content: I concur,If you message Keysight via the ebay you will receive a prompt response (I did). I think I can be confident that the Gentleman who contacts you will be very concerned that you camera is not as described or has issues. I suspect he may offer you another camera to replace you unit. I understand he has quite a few in stock. My trigger is perfect, no sticking or issue with it.Even though these units are 'Ex.Demo' they are normally in excellent condition and Keysight support them well. You have at least a 30 Day warranty on the unit anyway.Best WishesFraser

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 07:55:13 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 18, 2017, 07:39:14 pmNo, the camera I bought was listed as alright in regards to the strap.But, Keysight already took care of these issues and I am totally happy with their service.Their response time and offer of solutions is just amazing!And yes, the trigger button is stuck each time when I press it and I have to pull even harder to get it out of this position.It seems the plastic opening is a little tight.May be I will take it apart and have a closer look.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 08:01:03 pm
content: Good to hear! There is a reason my bench is covered in primarily HP/Agilent/Keysight gear - they may not be perfect but overall there is nobody who supports its equipment and users better.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 08:10:06 pm
content: Mine will likely have the broken strap mount, but it was described as suchStill waiting... it cleared customs at 7am this morning so I was hoping for delivery but no... hopefully tomorrow

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 09:02:56 pm
content: I'm still waiting, too

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 09:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 18, 2017, 08:01:03 pmI totally agree!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 01:27:23 pm
content: It's there!Connected a random 3s lipo to the DC in jack, updated firmware, all good to go.First impressions are as expected, it's nice to have an actual piece of equipment with proper UI and controls, and it does great for measurements both in accuracy and flexibility - but when it comes to sharing nice images the TE is a world aheadThe LCD is really nice for live viewing though.EDIT: better resize

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 06:21:20 pm
content: I have just asked for a quote on a TE-Q1 PlusFraser

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 06:23:54 pm
content: It's that still a key sight?Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 06:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 19, 2017, 06:21:20 pmSurprised you don't already have one of theseI have the Q1 with both lenses i.e. the 6.9 from the "normal" one and the 13mm from the "Plus". I took the above with the 13mm which is a tad wider than what's on the U5855A.The app is a bit meh, but the imager in itself is very good as you can see. Temp range a bit small at 150°C max but that still covers quite a lot of frequent uses in electronics.Someone needs to make a better app

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 07:42:52 pm
content: The TE images do look great, but at the same time prove a lower res sensor gets the job done.I've been amazed at how well I can see birds flying off in the distance when playing with my camera outdoors in the evenings while walking my monster cat.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 08:14:16 pm
content: For sure the keysight gets the job done, and better as I said due to the convenience of controls, calibration of temp readings that should be significantly more accurate and much wider temp range - that's why I got it.However if you're after the beauty of thermal imaging - no comparison.The point is probably rather that their "image stacking process giving out 320x240 equivalent" is mostly a marketing gimmick as expectedFreaking cold wave these days after having spent a week in shorts, so I'm not going to do more than shoot from my window

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 04:35:35 pm
content: Anybody know what DC barrel jack is used for the power?Thanks!

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 04:59:33 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on April 20, 2017, 04:35:35 pmThe DC charger needs to be a 12V 3A with a standard 2.1mm connector and positive in the center

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 05:19:56 pm
content: Nope, 2.5mm

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 05:46:06 pm
content: I'm pretty confident it is 2.1mm. That is right from the data sheet of the included power adapter, which is a DVE DSA-42D-12

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 05:49:50 pm
content: Well reality wins - my 2.1mm adapters don't fit in, the 2.5mm ones doCould be different versions as well but it would be slightly surprising.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 06:23:38 pm
content: I would think then there are a few versions of the power adapter. Tough to argue with reality

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 06:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 20, 2017, 06:23:38 pmNo, on the contrary: it's easy to argue with reality - just difficult to win

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 08:13:23 pm
content: I received mine this morning, no battery yet, but I had a power adapter that works.Updated the firmware without problem and took a couple quick comparison photo to the Seek Compact ProThe Seek is pretty disappointing in my opinion.Here's a comparison photo, the Keysight on the top and the Seek on the bottom.Will be a lot happier when I'm able to get my hands on a battery, but I'll be testing this out a lot before then.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 08:17:07 pm
content: Well, it's here at last! DHL attempted delivery yesterday while I was out (naturally). I collected it from the delivery point today, but I've only had the briefest chance to play with it this evening. So far, so good. However, I need to spend a few hours with the manual, learning how to drive it properly, before I pass judgement. One thing leapt out at me though - getting the focus right makes a big difference. The unit itself seems to be in brand new condition, although with Agilent branding.

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 08:48:16 pm
content: Mine also arrived looking brand new, very pleased with the condition of the unit itself.Completely agree about the manual focus, and it seems very touchy but easy to adjust, Seeks focus adjustment is less sensitive.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2017, 09:08:35 am
content: Quote from: nfmax on April 20, 2017, 08:17:07 pmDifference in what if I may ask? In focus (image sharpness), temperature or both?

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2017, 10:05:00 am
content: Both. If the focus is way out you get a screenful of meaningless blobs, but the difference between 'almost right' and 'right' makes a significant difference in sharpness of temperature contrasts, showing up small hot & cold features. In turn, this causes the displayed temperature range to scale to accomodate them, reducing the visible noise.I took some images of the woodburning stove last night (the evenings are still cold enough, I reckon) which look great, really sharp, with a maximum indicated temperature of around 260 °C. Unfortunately, I discovered all the spare memory cards I have knocking about here are mini-SD, not SD, so I can't post a picture.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 11:08:21 am
content: I've just joined the club. I've bought one with a new battery but no other accessories. Perhaps they realised that batteries are hard to come by - the only place I can see that has them (batteries) in stock in the UK seems to be Conrad and they want £107 including VAT and postage so I was pleased that Keysight/Agillent are supplying one.I now need to order a charger and perhaps a new SD card though I have one in my normal camera I could use.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 11:48:11 am
content: Well done.Yes I see that they have increased the price, but now include a battery.I spoke with the chap dealing with the sLe of these cameras regarding the lack of a battery. You could not meet a nicer guy. I understand that he has the job of selling a quantity of these cameras but once they are sold, there will be no more. It is a finite stock holding for a specific purpose that is no longer required.Fraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 04:57:39 pm
content: It seems I got really lucky picking up the last battery from RS at only £55!This sort of thing does not normally happen to me

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2017, 08:03:31 pm
content: Something I noticed upon close examination, the lens was extremely dirty, big smear across it and some what looks like storage dust on it.After cleaning with a lens swab the pictures came out even better looking "providing they were in focus".For a Macro picture it came out good, a lot more detail than what I expected.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 06:56:13 pm
content: My battery arrived today from datatec (German Keysight distributor)Interestingly the battery is almost completely empty and needs to be charged first.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 07:49:13 pm
content: Old stock ?I would expect the new battery to have approx half charge upon receipt.Does the battery have a build date on it ?Fraser

author: Marioka
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 09:42:12 am
content: Hi.I bought a U5855A with out battery.Distributor informed me to wait 2 months for U5752A battery.OMG.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 12:15:12 pm
content: Just heard from Keysight regarding the battery charge situation.The batteries are deliberately discharged to almost 'empty' prior to shipping due to airline requirements.It is therefore normal for the battery to be received in a discharged state and they are not old stock.Fraser

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 02:46:12 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 25, 2017, 12:15:12 pmThank you, this clears it up and it makes sense.My battery charged over night in the U5855A and this morning was fully charged and works great so far.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 05:54:42 pm
content: Yes this has been the norm for RC lipos and such since a few months as well, they discharge them to <30% before shipping instead of leaving them at 60% storage charge.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 08:02:08 am
content: I can +1 the good serviceMy unit had a bit of rubber string flapping around in the battery compartment, which after opening turned out to be the weather sealing gasket that had been improperly reinstalled at some point and instead of resting in its groove was thrown randomly in there out of place and being pinched and cut in several places. Contacted the seller about either getting a replacement gasket or a small compensation. Guess they don't have parts anyway, so I was offered a $29 refund.That puts my unit at a nice round $400 in the end. Just need to be careful not to get it wet and remember to warn the next owner in case I sell it at some point.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 07:20:34 pm
content: Was wondering, does anybody have an idea what the differences are between the different models in the series (temp ranges)? Would it be a completely different sensor, or just a matter of calibration?

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 07:25:21 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 26, 2017, 07:20:34 pmThe datasheet only shows a difference in temp. ranges, temp. sensitivity and they added a few extra color palettes. Thats it.The rest is all the same. Im guessing, the h/w is same, just a firmware thingy?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 07:44:52 pm
content: Maximum Temperature capability is normally set in the firmware and higher temperature ranges apply different bias voltages to the microbolometer pixels.Even if the dormant temperature ranges were to be enabled, I believe it likely that additional calibration data would also be required. I do not know whether all cameras are calibrated on all ranges before the maximum temperature limitation is enabled in firmware.Fraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 08:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 26, 2017, 07:44:52 pmForgive my stupidness, do they need to calibrate each and every camera separate? Or is it done once for a sensor (batch)?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 08:28:09 pm
content: It's an actual T&M instrument with individual calibration, if you bought new you'd get a calibration certificate, and you're supposed to send it in for recal every year.That's why they were such a bargain at these prices and why I got one, unlike my TE that's potentially all over the place as far as actual temp values this should be pretty accurate.I actually only just noticed they still sold new for $3500.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 08:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 26, 2017, 08:28:09 pmAh, ok thanks. Well i'm on the list, already waiting (almost) two weeks (not a clue what was the delay). Anyhow, next week it should be here. Can't wait!Did saw the list price,

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 08:41:42 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 26, 2017, 08:28:09 pmYes, I was surprised as well, when I saw this retail price.For the same retail price we can also get a FLIR E8.Withe the new battery installed, my U5855A works perfectly right now.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 09:12:54 pm
content: E8 looks good with the higher native res, but unless I'm missing the point we've got a much better product. The E8 is fixed focus at min 50cm distance so no 10cm close ups, has fewer/no customizable palettes, smaller temp range, fewer measurement points/options, no video output, no USB live stream or PC software... OK it's got Wi-Fi photo sharing

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 04:14:57 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 26, 2017, 08:02:08 amI'd do your best to refit the gasket. I don't believe the IR sensor itself is enclosed internally so you'll want to ensure it stays as clean as possible inside the camera.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 07:01:49 am
content: Ah that's a good point, thanks. Didn't think of that.I actually wanted to try and 3D print a gasket in flex material one day, could be an occasion to try...

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 07:18:31 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 27, 2017, 07:01:49 amIs the seal, like a lace? Round (DIA)? Or does it has a form factor?If its like around rubber cord, would imagine you should be able to buy something that comes close?

author: noidea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 07:37:11 am
content: If it's round rubber then you can buy bulk Oring material that you cut to size and join with super glue.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 08:44:30 am
content: Isn't there a 30-day warranty from Keysight on these units? I'd make a claim or at least contact them first

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 08:52:48 am
content: Quote from: nfmax on April 27, 2017, 08:44:30 amHey did, but there is (apparently) no spare part. They offered a little refund.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 10:04:02 am
content: The original gasket may be recoverable ? If you soak it in hot water it will usually return to shape. Then superglue the ends together if it has broken. I always use Loctite Power Flex flexible superglue as it is perfect for such flexible items and uses a rubber filler in its mix.Finally, I would not expect the camera to have got out of the factory with the gasket in such a state. Some of the cameras were for demo and review so it is possible yours was reviewed and someone opened it to take a peek inside. The gaskets can have a mind of their own and the reviewer may have been impatient when re-assembling the unit.I personally think Keysight are being very generous with the price if these cameras. They are officially used units but the price reduction is significant and the fact that they provided a further refund on top of that is good customer service. The 30 day warranty provides additional confidence for the buyer. Sadly spare parts for the camera likely have to come from NEC AVIO and may be a challenge to obtain quickly Hence the offer if a small refund to cover the parts needed to make a new gasket.If your gasket is totally ruined then making one with round cross section O ring material is a definite possibility. If the gasket was pre-shaped, tack the O ring material down into the groove with little spots of UHU soft glue as you install it and that should hold it in place nicely until the case is closed again. You could do the same with the original gasket if it is worth using but unco-operative at staying in place.I agree that you should definitely have a seal in place in this camera.Fraser

author: exor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 10:29:05 am
content: I placed an order today, just the camera with new battery but without any other accessories. There wasn’t much to do with the price and they add 24% VAT to the invoice but shipping is free and it will be custom cleared to Finland.Have you received exactly the same unit that has been in the picture as I noticed that serial number (which is visible in the sticker and system info display) changes in every listing?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 10:31:33 am
content: Yep my SN matches.

author: exor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 10:33:02 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 27, 2017, 10:31:33 amOk, fine, thanks!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 02:35:57 pm
content: Each camera has been inspected and a condition report produced. The Keysight eBay outlet lists the cameras condition according to the individual report and supplies a picture of the actual camera so that condition may be seen. Some cameras have minor damage, such as a broken strap mount. This is detailed and pictured in the auction. Keysight are a very honourable company. What you read and see is exactly what they want you to receive. If there are any problems, they respond quickly and behave fairly.I do not work for Keysight

author: noidea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 03:06:56 pm
content: Yes they are pretty honest, I was looking at a couple of their auctions a few weeks ago and queried the difference in price on two cameras where one was noted as having a broken strap mount and the other didn't but the photos showed it did. I sent them a message where they confirmed the photos were of the actual unit being sold and they thanked me for spotting their mistake and changed the price and listing.I'm still on the fence about whether I really need a thermal imager or its just another cool toy to buy. The cost of a battery in Australia was putting me off, now they're supplying batteries decisions, decisions...

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 03:13:52 pm
content: Quote from: noidea on April 27, 2017, 03:06:56 pmWell you can just run it with a 12V DC, external. So you don'tneeda battery. I think most people can live without oneI was looking for a E4 for some time, but all I found was round the > 1000 USD mark. This price is pretty cool, and it for sure will come in handy (from time to time). On top, if you have enough, you can sell it without to much of a loss (guessing).BTW do they still have the versions without batteries? They told me they would see if they could stock there eBay store with some (new) batteries.Just my $0.02

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 03:41:09 pm
content: The list price increased from ~$500 to ~$625 for including a battery, so they are charging you the same amount for the battery as other retailers.Quote from: onesixright on April 27, 2017, 03:13:52 pmFor bench applications, that's certainly an option. It's a little inconvenient for home inspection purposes.QuoteNo results on eBay for "U5752A".

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 03:47:20 pm
content: Forgive my ignorance.The battery is 7.2V, the adapter is 12V. What if you hookup (any) 7.2V battery to the DC?That makes it a bit portable, so you can run around the house and snap a few pics.Anybody like to explain why the voltage of the battery is substantial lower?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 04:08:12 pm
content: Very common practice in my experience.Battery is nominally 7.2V but that is the mid point of its terminal voltage which is just how Li-Ion batteries are specified. You need greater than 7.2V to put full charge into the battery. Charge voltage is normally 4.4V per cell so you would likely need at least 8.8V to charge the battery.The charger circuit has an overhead voltage so using a 9V adapter would likely be borderline for the task. 12V is the next common PSU brick voltage up from 9V. The camera MAY still charge the battery and run correctly if less than 12V is attached to the DC input socket. Many cameras have an acceptable voltage range at the DC input, so it could run from say 10V to 15V but do not assume this. The manufacturer can confirm the minimum and maximum input voltages of the design but using a variable lab power supply to provide LESS than 12V is safe to do. The camera will fail to boot if the voltage drops below its minimum requirement.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 05:52:02 pm
content: If someone wonders here's the polarity of the battery connections.Note that it draws 7mA when offso don't leave your battery in when unused. So much for my easy "solder it in and forget it" solution

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 06:06:33 pm
content: Any change putting a micro switch under it so you can turn the power off?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 06:40:33 pm
content: Regarding the 'off' current. Have you checked the current draw after the camera has been off for a while ? It is not uncommon for modern thermal cameras to have three power states..... ON, Standby 1 and Standby 2.ON is obvious, Standby 1 is a sort of warm Standby where the camera can restart very quickly as the computer is still booted. standby 2 is a cold standby where the computer is effectively off and needs to boot from cold when the camera is instructed to power ON. The FLIR E4 and several other cameras I own have this two standby state design. Cold standby should have a current draw measured in micro amps.The camera drops into Standby 2 after a Standby 1 timer times out. The timeout period is different with each brand of camera.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 06:52:48 pm
content: Nope, but will try. I have little hope though since it starts drawing those 7mA as soon as power is connected, before the first power on.

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 07:12:11 pm
content: A couple questions,What is the brand of that power supply you are using?AndWhat memory card do you have in there?, it looks orange in the picture and was wondering if that's a eyeFi card. If it is can you check the voltage draw after removing it.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 07:37:56 pm
content: I doubt the "off" current drain goes any lower. I left the battery in my camera which was switched for a week and the battery was fully drained. I know the manual recommends storing the camera with the battery removed, and now we know why.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 07:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 27, 2017, 05:52:02 pmThanks for the tear down picture.I still have to fix my trigger switch that is stuck and and it seems to be easily removed.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 08:06:29 pm
content: Yup it's an old eye-fi card, only full-size SD I found in my drawersDrain doesn't change without, unsurprising since there's no reason it would be powered when the whole camera is off.FraserTheSteve posted a bunch of teardown pics near the top of the thread.The regulator is anRD DPS3005in a3D printed case I designed. Really neat little things.I'll now be trying to print this during the night:I printed a stub and it seems to fit reasonably well:

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 08:20:05 pm
content: Thanks for the info Kilrah, figured the eyeFi card wouldn't draw but you never know, have a couple of them laying around myself.Any chance you could upload the .stl file for the battery case, I have a 3d printer also and would like to print one out also.ThanksSteve

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 08:27:02 pm
content: I will of course post it as soon as I've verified it worksAlready made 2 changes...Pisses me off when half the things I download and print end up in the trash becasue they're lousy designs, so I try to do a bit better*...*results not guaranteed

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 08:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 27, 2017, 10:04:02 amLooks like I've chucked it already...I think I will try to fill the groove flush with silicone. Or jsut leave it like this, the "counterpart" pushes in close to 1mm already so should make quite a bit of a seal on its own at least for dust.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 10:43:29 pm
content: Just to correct a comment made here. I was not the chap who posted pictures of the cameras interior. I have not had a chance to do anything with my camera yet. The battery is en route to me from overseas and should arrive any day now.Nice work on the 3D battery casing.Fraser

author: mrrrwhat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 01:34:52 am
content: Do the eyeFi card wifi function work on this camera or not?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:35:56 am
content: Might not because the camera doesn't put things in a DCIM folder like a common digital camera but in an IMG folder. Anyway the card is out of support so the WiFi functions are as good as dead as it can't be reconfigured anymore (yay for server-based stuff...) so I can't check.The case print failed, started it again...@Fraser I've corrected, had confused indeed

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:55:36 am
content: If the battery case turns out I'll probably print one for fun. Have you checked to see if the camera will charge the battery for you? I would think it would need all 4 contacts for that with the sense resistor and the thermistor.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:57:59 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 27, 2017, 07:37:56 pmI found this issue as well. A fully charged battery was down to two bars in three days or so. I thought my £55 battery might have been a lemon but it looks like it's the unit itself.That means the battery holder gasket is going to take some wear, unless you leave it permanently charging

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 07:12:39 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 28, 2017, 06:55:36 amGah, it indeed doesn't. Can someone measure the middle contacts at normal temp? Probably jsut a matter of putting a resistor between them.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 07:30:10 am
content: Already done on page 1.Here is the info again:The "S" sense pin appears to be tied to the positive output through a 7.7 K resistor.The "T" temperature pin is connected to negative through a NTC thermistor which has 11.5K at around 20 degrees C.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 07:50:15 am
content: Woops sorry for that.Installed 6k8 and 10k resistors on the respective sides and we have chargeFunny, there was a thread about wire-wrap the other day, guess I've jsut used that again after maybe 15 years or so

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 09:36:35 am
content: OK, I fixed the sticky trigger knob.Both sides of the knob had some left over plastic attached.The switch itself was alright.Now it works perfectly.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 09:50:56 am
content: Mine is a bit creaky as well, guess I'll check it while I'm there.Re the case: the 2 18650 just fit (BMS will have to go on top, too short), the case fits in the camera well... but I didn't notice the end cap had a V notch at the center, so a redesign is needed

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 12:34:44 pm
content: Making a battery pack is often challenging as the OEM batteries often have very thin plastic cases that are not easily reproduced using a 3D printer. I have seen some that are wafer thin but use very robust plastic to counter this. One technique I have used is 3D printed end caps and thin modelers ABS plasti-card for the rest of the case. The plasti-card is very thin but tough. It also bonds easily to 3D printed ABS parts that my printer produces. I use plastic weld to melt the parts together. If you are short on length, you could use thin ABS plasti-card at the ends of the battery.http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/plasticard.htmFraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 02:57:44 pm
content: No need, the 1mm wall has printed surprisingly well. It's a bit fragile but once everything's sorted I'll make a cap that can be glued on and will add the rigidity.New version printing...

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:32:10 pm
content: OK, revised design fits. I'll make it 1mm longer becasue there's still a little margin and post the file, then work on the cover. That will be 1.5mm thick I think.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:41:52 pm
content: @kilrah what software your using?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:57:21 pm
content: Does the case design include the recesses for the T and S contacts?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 07:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on April 28, 2017, 06:41:52 pmSolidworksQuote from: TheSteve on April 28, 2017, 06:57:21 pmNo but I can add them

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 07:56:08 pm
content: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2281725/Added the other 2 contacts. Not tested.

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 09:42:16 pm
content: TYVM for posting that file, have it printing out at this moment.https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Bh8pIKcQE7d3p4ZFlQWnZraDA/view?usp=sharing

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 06:18:08 pm
content: OK I think that's a done deal, I've updated the Thingiverse page with all details.I haven't glued my case because I'll have to redo it once I receive my new 18650s, those are half dead old ones I had laying around.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 08:34:50 pm
content: Looks awesome Kilrah!Maybe you mentioned it, but I got two questions.1. Whats the circuit (inside the battery box) your using?2. Do I get it right that the original battery has a thermistor inside, and that it is nowdisabledvia the resistor?Thanks!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 08:41:10 pm
content: 1) Mentioned on Thingiverse page2) Yep

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 09:38:18 pm
content: Looks great. I wouldn't both gluing it, I'd use some kapton tape which is stupid strong and very thin.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 05:51:41 pm
content: These units come with a 30-day warranty from Keysight. As they aremassivelybelow the usual price, and could easily fail in ways I could not hope to repair, I made a request to KS for a repair contract quote (effectively an extended warranty). After an exchange of emails and a few phone calls, I have been quoted about £210 for a three year contract. This doesn't seem at all bad for what is effectively a £2000 instrument, and it's great that Keysight are prepared to stand behind their products. Now, do I go for it or not? Hmmm...

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 07:23:36 pm
content: Buy two and keep one as a spare?I got one for 600$ (+VAT) including a new battery and shipping to EU, still waiting for it to arrive.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:14:59 pm
content: @KilrahThanks for putting in the effort and for sharing the battery case. A most excellent job and your work has encouraged me to do the same for a couple of other pieces of equipment that I have without their original batteries.My OEM battery is currently stuck with DHL as their is some confusion over VAT that I am trying to sort out. Hopefully I will have my battery soon.Fraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:28:50 pm
content: @Fraser did you order with Keysight?My camera arrived in the wrong countryAnd after some emails ....QuoteRight, let that be almost a 1000 KM from where I liveWell, maybe after all, I might finally receive it, I ordered it only the 14th of last monthPatience is a virtue!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:00:56 pm
content: Strange that you're having VAT issues... for me it was surprisingly painless, in my case keysight happened to be one of the rare suppliers to sort that out on their side and prepay the VAT. After I got the deal I received the final bill on ebay with 30-something bucks extra that included both shipping and VAT and that was the end of it, unlike the typical case of the transporter handling customs clearance and billing that to the recipient (with an added $20 processing fee...)That was also described in the conditions page the auction directed to.It might be becasue there's a Keysight office in the country, I received some status emails from them so while I got the package directly it must have gone through them at least administratively.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:34:09 pm
content: @Kilrah,My consignment is just a battery and it looks like DHL have missed the fact no VAT is chargeable to me on this consignment. It will get sorted out tomorrow hopefully.My camera arrived with all fees prepaid and no hassles at all.Fraser

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 05:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on May 03, 2017, 05:51:41 pmThis is a tricky one - does the £210 include VAT? I'm wondering whether or not to try and extend the warranty. If there is VAT on top then this is almost 50% of the camera cost. I previously bought a signal generator from the Agillent/Keysight store for £1500 and didn't take any warranty out and it has been fine.I suppose if something goes wrong then you can probably still sell it for parts/repair for around £100 or so. The calculation then becomes lose(pay) a definite £250 (£210+VAT ?) now or risk losing a net £400. If the chance of it going wrong in 3 years is less than 50% then you're better off (on average) taking the risk.I understand what you say about £2k instrument but in my own case, if it failed I wouldn't go out and replace it for £2k. If I replaced it at all I'd wait around for another bargain opportunity or for the prices to fall generally as they do with technology on the whole.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 05:54:32 pm
content: That's ex-VAT

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 09:32:30 pm
content: As a tech who repairs thermal cameras I can say that decent quality cameras such as the Keysight (NEC AVIO) are very reliable. You would be really unlucky to suffer a failure. Damage due to dropping is the most common cause of failure and not normaly covered by a warranty.In terms of camera design and what can fail, the microbolometer is a precision and relatively fragile sensor. It can suffer pixel failures in normal use but this is corrected via a full calibration. Dropping a camera is never a good idea but the microbolometer is capable of being damaged by severe impact. The video processing circuits are normally modern VVLSI high performance and reliable surface mount technology and not normally highly stressed. The Display technology is standard LCD with associated high reliability. The power supply is standard modern dc-dc converter and LDO based. The power supply is a point if failure in any modern electronics, and the thermal camera is not immune to power supply related failures due to heat stress or just operational fatigue. Thankfully power supply circuits tend to be one of the more easily repaired areas of a camera.Where any extended warranty is offered or desitpred, it us very important to check exactly what us covered and any requirement for annual inspections. Many extended warranties will not cover fair wear and tear. Such includes all case parts, microbolometer pixel failures, battery failure and failures of I/O connectors due to abuse. If annual inspection is stated, the product is checked for faults and any calibration that is needed completed to correct failed pixels or NUC drift due to ageing.Modern thermal cameras are not that complicated when compared to other modern electronics. It is the sensor module and firmware that is sophisticated.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 10:00:17 pm
content: For anyone wanting a decent quality PSU for their U5855A, I have a recommendation.I sourced a DVE brand power 'brick' from Germany. It is fitted with the required 2.5mm plug for the camera and is rated higher than the one from DVE supplied with the camera when new. The model number is DVE DSA-42D-12-1-120350, 12V centre positive 3.5A.Mine arrived quickly and are brand new. It comes with a European IEC lead.The auction is here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DVE-Switching-Adapter-DSA-42D-12-1-120350-12V-3-5A-Netzteil-LEVEL3-Efficience-/252844220693?hash=item3adeb0a115:g:Nh0AAOSwealY46gmFraser

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 08:18:53 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 06, 2017, 10:00:17 pmThanks but too bad the listing is already gone

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 10:51:33 am
content: Oh I thought he still had two in stock when I posted this. They must have sold.Fraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 07:20:04 pm
content: Any change you can power/charge the camera via USB?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 08:55:09 pm
content: No.

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 04:09:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 07, 2017, 10:51:33 amI got one of those toBut I think I ordered it before Fraser posted the link.Still waiting on the camera. Expected delivery date from the invoice is tomorrow.Did you guys get any tracking info and who do keysight use for shipping in EU?BTW. What size/brand SD card does it come with originally?

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 04:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: eeviking on May 08, 2017, 04:09:29 pmIm still waiting....They used FedEx from he US to Europe (for me). And now they will use DHL (its somewhere in the Netherlands, Schiphol atm)...I asked then for a Tracking code, the guys from Keysight eBay are very quick and nice to respond (so just ask them)!

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 05:49:39 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on May 08, 2017, 04:21:42 pmThanks for the advise. Got almost instant tracking info from keysight.2pcs from Malaysia arrived in Amsterdam yesterday, one is on the way to Denmark. So someone else in EU is getting one soonKeysight import them to EU via NL as I only payed 21% VAT. If imported directly to DK VAT would be 25%

author: davesch1632
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 04:09:01 am
content: So, I just bought one of the U5855a's without the power supply. I appreciate all the information on this unit that was posted here and look forward to receiving it soon. So, I need the correct power supply and read in past posts that the mini plug was 2.1mm and then another post that it is 2.5mm. So looking to clarify if anyone can give the correct plug size before I try to pick up a power supply. Thanks in Advance! Dave

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 05:40:17 am
content: Quote from: eeviking on May 08, 2017, 05:49:39 pmMine is laying in Amsterdam since May 1stAnd, as far as i know, its still there. Sigh, gets a bit annoying.I hope your is there in a jiffy!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:27:32 am
content: Dave,The required power supply is fitted with a 2.5mm power plug. I tried a 2.1mm plug and ir does not fit.I have several suitable power supplies but decided to track down a nice compact unit from the same manufacturer that Keysight normally supplies.IIRC the original DVE branded supply is rated at 12V 3A so any decent quality power supply that has the same or better rating should work fine. I personally avoid cheaper Chinese power supplies as it us difficult to be sure that they contain decent quality parts and are not some awful design.Do not skimp on the current rating as the power supply is intended to be able to both charge the battery and power the camera, if desired.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 01:56:03 pm
content: Yay! my battery just arrivedIt was packed very carefully in order to comply with the airline regulations for a Li-Ion battery shipped outside equipment.Wow there was a lot of packing ! No chance of damage to my battery. Pictures attached.My camera is at last united with its battery and power supplyFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 01:58:10 pm
content: Now the unpacking.......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 01:59:31 pm
content: Together at last

author: davesch1632
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:23:20 pm
content: Fraser, Thanks for the clarification on the plug size. Will be looking now for a quality power supply. Can't wait to get the unit!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:54:51 pm
content: Nice, family finally completeFor the record, my current measurements from the DC in jack at 12V:Camera on without battery: typ. 350mA (LCD brightness high, no LED illumination), max <500mA (LED and laser on). There's a short 650mA burst during the power on sequence.Camera on with battery: Add about 200mA to the aboveCamera off, charging battery: <1.5AI have a battery charger that came with a 12V/4A adapter with a 2.5mm plug so it's perfect. I'll also often use other sources with my "standardized" adapters from XT60 plugs.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 04:32:59 pm
content: @Kilrah,Many thanks for those measurements.So the power supply is basically 100% over-rated and is likely just a standard type that Keysight choose to use.Your readings will help me in choosing a nice quality car charger unit, as 3A types are rarer and more costly. Thank youI am always cautious when providing power supplies for thermal cameras as in my past experience there is quite a high current draw when initially switched on. this is the Peltier TEC or heater bringing the microbolometer up to its ~32c operating temperature. I know that these days many microbolometers have deleted the TEC from their design and are 'fast starting'. The U5855A actually tells you that it is "warming up" which is novel.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 05:04:32 pm
content: Yep, the "inaccurate measurement" indicator and warning are interesting. By the way it's funny to see how it behaves during warm-up, the temperature really goes all over the place and gets brought back in place by the shutter calibrations...

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:19:16 pm
content: It has arrived!It looks in very good condition (in fact it looks new except for a light smear) and I had a little play (before reading the manual).I've successfully upgraded the firmware and the new battery is charging and I've downloaded the software.Now to read the manual.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:46:21 pm
content: Disaster!The images don't line up.The visual camera and the IR are out of alignment and I can't see any way to adjust this.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:17:29 pm
content: Assuming you aren't too close to the object you're taking a picture of you'll need to get the focus perfect for them to line up. Play with it slowly and you will see the the two get closer or further apart as you adjust the focus. This is the price we pay for having adjustable focus.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:27:10 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 10, 2017, 07:17:29 pmThanks TheSteve, I'd just discovered that for myself on a second attempt (see photo) but it is good to have it confirmed as normal behaviour. It is increadibly sensitive.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:41:58 pm
content: I'm beginning to get the hang of things.The camera seems to be constantly calibrating itself - I need to fiddle with the settings I guess.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:45:23 pm
content: Some clarification here if I may.....A visible light camera will always have a physical offset to the thermal camera lens. the offset correction changes with the distance between the camera and the object being viewed.The FLIR E4 with its fixed focus thermal camera lens uses a menu option to set the distance for its MSX overlay to be correctly offset to match the thermal image.The U5855A has a manual focus lens that has two functions. Its first function is obvious, to adjust the physical focus of the lens for a sharp thermal image. The second function is less obvious and I do not think it is explained in the manual. The manual focus ring also tells the camera electronics the focus distance that it is set at. that is to say, it knows where its focus point is through factory calibration of the system. This distance detail is then fed to the fusion image offset correction and the thermal image is moved up and down on the visible light image to bring about correct alignment.You adjust the focus ring until the thermal and visible light images are correctly aligned. If the factory set focus distance calibration is correct, this will also provide the optimum thermal image focus at the same point.So the U5855A does with the Manual focus ring what the FLIR E4 requires a menu input for as it has no such focus distance detection.Hope this helpsFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:54:05 pm
content: @jpb,The regular calibration is normal.Most microbolometer based thermal cameras use a calibration flag of known temperature to provide an nice 'flat' image. This is called Flat Field Correction (FFC).When a thermal camera is first switched on, the microbolometer warms up to around 32C. This is the warm up period that the camera warns about. During this time temperature measurements will be inaccurate. The camera will continue to 'settle down' for several minutes and during that time it will continue to carry out FFC 'calibration' events as indicated on the screen. Once everything has settled down, the FFC 'calibration' events will become less frequent and occur at around 2 minute intervals.In some cameras the user can switch off the FFC events whilst carrying out video recording in order to avoid freeze frames every 2 minutes. I have not seen the option on this camera though. Then again I have not tried video recording yet so it may automatically suspend the FFC 'calibration' events when recording ?The FFC event is intended to provide the best image and most accurate measurements. it is a necessary 'evil' in many cameras. Some can operate without it but still need FFC calibration to be carried out manually on occasion.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 08:27:39 pm
content: Fraser - I can say for certain that when the two images are aligned it does give the absolute best image from the IR camera. So assuming there are calibration constants they are bang on with my camera.It is a shame that Keysight has not given any calibration details for the cameras.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 09:29:29 pm
content: Thanks for all the info Fraser.The merge mode seems a little too difficult to get right, at least while the camera is warming up and it keeps freezing to calibrate. My main concern was whether my camera was ok and it seems that it probably is. Focusing in just IR mode seems to work well and probably the IR and visible images can be aligned after saving.I'm looking forward to playing with the camera more and getting better at using it - sadly need to get to bed, I've got work tomorrow.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 09:52:55 pm
content: It does calibrate quite often while warming up, it isn't bad once its been running a few minutes.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 10:00:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 10, 2017, 07:54:05 pmThis camera "solves" the problem pretty easily - it simply does not do video recording... Sure you can record the composite feed externally since it provides one, but it seems they didn't make that a feature.The blending is wierd.If you switch to Picture in Picture mode you can very well see the thermal image move across the visible image following your changes in focus, and alignement works well. You can then switch to "Blend" mode and things are aligned. BUT, while in Blend mode further changes in focus are NOT taken into account anymore, which is highly counter-intuitive (bug?). You've got to switch back to PIP mode everytime you adjust to a new subject to focus, then back to blend. Quite a bit of a pain.What I didn't understand once I noticed the focus position encoder is why there's an "Object distance" in the Parameters menu that does NOT use this info. Doesn't seem to be of any use apart maybe for you to enter so it appears on the capture as informational data.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 10:02:36 pm
content: Mine certainly updates the overlay/alignment as I focus in blend mode.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 10:19:49 pm
content: Huh now that is weird. Mine definitely didn't, but since you said that I did a factory reset. Then it did. I set my preferred settings back in - it didn't anymore. Tried to revert some to no avail. Factory reset again, fine again. Reentered my settings one at a time and in a different order, still working now.Must be a bug somewhere, will see if I can reproduce tomorrow.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 10:35:44 pm
content: @Kilrah,I agree that the distance to object setting could have been used for image offset correction, but then you need to estimate the distance or use trial and error, like on the E4 MSX Offset correction menu.The Distance to object setting is used by the cameras measurement correction routines to allow for atmospheric attenuation on the 'flight path' of the thermal energy from source to camera. This increases measurement accuracy at longer distances, but the effect is negligible at shorter distances such as 0 to 10m. It allows entry of up to 1000m distance ! Now there would be atmospheric influences on the measurement at that range! Such accuracy is not commonly needed by most users though. The error in the measurements will still be around 2C or 2% anyway and emissivity variation adds to the error.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 10:50:35 pm
content: Regarding manual focus......Take a close look at the objective lens in the U5855A.Have you seen such a weird looking lens before ? It is sort of a convex concave hybrid.This appears to be the same type of lens as is used in my NEC AVIO F30 compact camerasThe instructions for the F30 state that a feature of this lens is that it operates as a fixed focus lens when set to infinity and has good depth of field, yet it provides manual focus capability for closer objects to ensure that they are pin sharp. The idea was to reduce user fatigue when doing building surveys, at a distance, where you do not want to have to keep resetting the focus.I shall have to test the lens tomorrow to see whether it behaves the same on the U5855A.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 11:12:55 pm
content: Picture of my F30 Objective lens

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 05:39:52 pm
content: I was playing around looking at my daughter's puppy with the IR camera and I noticed he left perfect little paw prints on the wooden laminate floor when ever he moved his paws.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 06:22:51 pm
content: Jpb,Welcome to the wonderful world of thermal imagingOne of the most common demo's of thermal camera technology is placing a hand on a surface and then removing it after a second. The camera shows a nice latent image of the hand shape. You can also point it at the floor and show people's foot prints where they have been standing, even if they are wearing leather bottomed shoes. Rubber bottomed shoes insulate a bit more.When surveying a surface, the careful use of a finger tip placed on an otherwise 'flat' surface for a few seconds can provide useful thermal signatures at known point against which to reference. A warmed pointer like a screwdriver can also act as a thermal pointing stick when viewing a surface with no natural thermal markers.A thermal camera opens the users mind to the world of thermal energy and how it is present all around us. There are many uses for thermal cameras. Some are practical uses like building and PCB inspection, others are just for fun, like looking at your petI should say that thermal cameras are used by some vets working with horses etc. The information provided by their thermal profile can identify issues under the skin. There was also investigation into using thermal cameras to detect abnormalities in women's breasts.You may remember the outbreak of bird flu and other contagious diseases that caused humans to run a high temperature. Airports were equipped with thermal cameras that scanned passengers looking for people who were running a temperature.Car owners can also use thermal cameras to monitor tyre, wheel and brake temperatures giving early warning of sticky brake calipers, wheel bearing issues or tyre heating due to tracking error or low pressure.I could write a whole piece on the various different uses of a thermal camera, some obvious, some less so.Take a look at the sky (not the sun please) and you can see aircraft thermal signatures against a very low background temperature. Normally the sky will display whatever the minimum temperature capability of your camera is as the sky is wayyyyyyyy cold. You are looking through the atmosphere out into space. At 35,000 feet the temperature is around -50CYou can safely look at our Moon with a thermal camera. Any positive temperature reading will be reflected heat from the sun and will be highly inaccurate due to the long path losses. A thermal telescope may be constructed using very powerful refractor or reflector optics.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 07:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 10, 2017, 10:50:35 pmYep very weird, never seen that indeed!Quote from: Fraser on May 10, 2017, 10:50:35 pmThat however seems a bit like marketing bull though, as a photographer unless thermal works completely differently from visible and requires the weird design (doesn't seem so from my experience with the Thermal Expert that also has manual focus with a more conventional looking lens) they just described how a lens worksQuote from: Kilrah on May 10, 2017, 10:19:49 pmI think I found itno it jsut did it again. Drives me crazy.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 07:29:26 pm
content: @Kilrah,I do not disagree with you regarding the lens claims. I was not sure whether the lens design had been tweaked to enhance fixed focus large depth of field use Vs Close-up manual focus use.I found a video that makes much of the lenses capabilitieshttp://youtu.be/5_LCA_xdRxghttps://youtu.be/S8cwra8_socI have four of these great little F30 camerashttp://www.infrared.avio.co.jp/en/products/ir-thermo/lineup/f30/

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 08:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 11, 2017, 06:22:51 pmThanks there looks like lots of fun to be had!The serious reason (excuse?) I had to get a thermal camera was to check the insulation in my walls (the house has cavity walls and insulation was added a few years ago and this is notorious for producing cold spots and bridging the damp proofing and so on) but I'll probably need to wait for winter to get good images with a warm house and cold outside. Also to check the radiators for uniform heat and so on.But it will be useful to find the small black dog in the garden at night!

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2017, 09:54:12 pm
content: I was looking at ways of capturing video using the analog out jack and found this.http://a.co/5JEvBbpIt arrived today and I gave it a quick test, here's the results.https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Bh8pIKcQE7bnRVM3MtbDRYQTg/view?usp=sharingYou may want to download the file as it may not play back correctly in your browser.Not too bad, and I can use the device for a few other things also.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2017, 10:03:53 pm
content: Quote from: chili_red on May 12, 2017, 09:54:12 pmI think I have a similar device hanging around that I got a while ago to capture VHS tapes to DVD but haven't got around to using it yet. I'll see if I can find it and give it a go.

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 04:16:47 am
content: I've been making custom color palettes, trying to get the most detail out of images and after a few tries came up with this one.Down our street approximately 300'Moon rising over thunderstormDoing her business

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 04:33:49 am
content: Is it just me or does the camera really excel at grey scale images?

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 07:50:35 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 13, 2017, 04:33:49 amI don't think it's just you - I find the grey scale images 'better' in some way too

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 09:27:29 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 13, 2017, 04:33:49 amI find the gray scale images more natural looking but I think this is because there is a natural graduation with temperature whilst the colour images are more dramatic but much harder to interpolate - I mean the colours are all separated by my brain rather than blending into a smoothly changing image.It might also be something to do with rods and cones in the human eye - the gray scale images are very much like a moonlit night scene where there is insufficient light to see colour.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 09:41:43 am
content: In my professional use of thermal cameras I used grey scale for best contrast. There is a good reason why professional broadcast cameras used to use monochrome viewfinders.... it provided excellent contrast for the camera operator. I should also state that monochrome EVF's were higher resolution than colour types of the era and that also played a part in their use.I have always found the false colour images less distinct than the plain grey scale but some colour palettes can be used to highlight some thermal deviations and so they have their place in thermography. I personally normally use grey scale or Ironbow.Some use Rainbow or Rainbow high contrast to enhance delta T imaging. Rainbow can be very vivid but I feel I lose detail using that.Fraser

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 10:30:06 am
content: Different purposes... If you want nice looking images grayscale is probably best, but if what's important is temperature readings and spotting deviations a palette like rainbow makes that much more obvious with a completely different color rather than a slightly different shade of grey.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 10:41:43 am
content: @Kilrah,I do not disagree but it seems different users are comfortable with different palettes for differing tasks. All of my camera are on Ironbow 256 where such is available. I switch to greyscale when I want to see subtle details in the image such as thermal bleed on a PCB. I could use one of the more vibrant palettes but the bright colours distrct me. Thankfully it is often possible to make your own personalised palettes and that can help pull out the required details in a wY the user is comfortable with.Some greyscale palettes are 64 shades whilst others are 256. Such can also make a difference to the usefulness of the image produced.Fire fighting cameras tend to operate in a partially greyscale palette with colour at higher levels. Such can be very useful at identifying casualties in smoke or hot spots in the environment. Very effective as the grey scale image us not so distracting as lots of colour 'splodges' dancing all over the screen.As has been shown here, the Keysight has the option to use custom palettes. A very useful featureFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 10:54:23 am
content: On a slightly different, but applicable topic......Users should not be afraid of using the manual span and level controls. It is rare that a cameras automatic span and level provides the optimum image for the user. It tries to cover all temperatures in a scene when sometimes only a pecific temperature range needs to be displayed or expanded to the full palette range.The auto modes can also choose a span that is so narrow that noise becomes an issue in the image. The camera is showing the maximum available thermal detail for a small Delta T surface. This is not always desirable and a slightly wider span can improve the images appearance and interpretation.This is why it is sooooo important to have manual control of span and level on a thermal camera. Auto mode is helpful but not always the best option in imaging scenarios. FLIR make this point in their building survey guide.Fire fighting cameras are different. They are designed to be fully automatic so that the fireman does not have to mess with buttons and settings when in the field. Some palette options may be set via hidden menus, remote,or a PC, but when fire fighting the camera is full auto and provides the most appropriate images for seeing through smoke, detecting casualties and identifying hot spots that may be of interest to the fireman..... once again, horses for courses. Firemen normally do not care about high accuracy temperature measurement or subtle detail. They just want to be shown casualties, room features and potential hot hazards.Use those manual controls and enjoy the image improvement that often results.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 11:44:25 am
content: Destructive teardown of a JVC BN-V814U Li-Ion camcorder batter packAs readers of this thread will know, my NEC AVIO professional thermal camera use a NEC/JVC battery pack that is a standard commercial model and not custom in any way. The U5855A appeared to use a very similar battery pack but there were obvious differences in the connector type and configuration.I have a crush damaged JVC battery that I have decided to tear down in order to share the internal topology with you all. I have provided some comparison photographs of my official Keysight U5855A battery and the similar JVC camcorder battery, for dimensional comparison. They are very similar but I was surprised to find that the Keysight battery is actually slightly larger. I tested the JVC camcorder battery in the battery 'foot' of the U5855A and no modifications are needed to make it fit the foots socket. If anything, some padding or a spacer is needed to make it a snug fit !The batteries are slightly different dimensions and i will provide dimensional details of both in a later post.From the teardown the reader will be able to assess the viability of converting the JVC camcorder battery to be compatible with the U5855A camera connections. If such a conversion proves viable it will be possible to buy a decent quality JVC camcorder compatible battery pack with decent cells at lower cost than the official Keysight battery.I am not recommending owners to risk their expensive U5855A camera by making use of converted batteries. I take no responsibility for any damage done in doing so. Take a look at the pictures and make your own decision on whether this is actually worth pursuing.Some initial comment.....1. The Official JVC battery uses quality Panasonic 18650 cells Qty 22. The battery protection board is located at the connector end of the battery pack3. The polarity of the output terminals is reverse to that on the Keysight battery pack4. The 10K NTC thermistor (blue resin cased) is present and connected to the centre socket of the three located at the battery end mid point.5. The outer connectors of the three located at the battery mid point are unpopulated.6. There is some useful space between the battery protection board and the battery case.7. The component parts of teh JVC battery appear compatible with use in the U5855A but note my 'at your own risk' disclaimer above.8. The 'Sense' contact is not present on the JVC battery but may be easily added.To make the JVC battery compatible with the U5855A battery it would be necessary to create a new contact array in the top of the battery pack without increasing its length. Such may be accomplished by cutting away the contact plate end of the battery and desoldering the contacts. A new contact plate may be created using etched PCB material or even self adhesive copper tape on a non conductive substrate. The original end plate may be modifiable and may the reused if desired. Ensure the polarity of the connections is correct for the U5855A camera !Basically, use your own ingenuity to provide a 4 contact end plate that mates with the U5855A cameras internal contacts. It is not rocket science and you still have the protection of the battery protection board in place.OK, to the pictures.........Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 11:45:34 am
content: More...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 11:46:52 am
content: More.....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 11:48:03 am
content: More.....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 11:49:27 am
content: More......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 11:56:36 am
content: Battery Dimensions........Keysight Battery70.2mm Long39.2mm wide22.84mm deep max/20.41mm deep min (in trough of battery case)68.9mm distance from contact end to bottom of battery (they are recessed into top of battery)JVC Camcorder Battery70.5mm Long38.29mm wide20.5mm deep max (no trough present)69.89mm distance from contact end to bottom of battery

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 12:00:21 pm
content: Pictures of JVC camcorder battery in the U5855A battery 'foot'........

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 02:38:22 pm
content: Just spent an hour searching through all manner of Li-Ion battery packs designed for cameras and camcorders.From what I have found, the Keysight battery is unique and the side slots are intended for a flat style desk charger (not actually sold by Keysight) .The format is pretty standard for a 2 x 18650 cell pack. Nikon packs Eden have the 'two hump' case shape.The Keysight battery shares the contact format commonly sound in Digital Cameras where the camera contacts mate with the end face. There are elements of JVC, Nikon and Olympus battery packs in the design but none are an exact match.I have even considered the use of the shorter (but otherwise the same) JVC battery packs with a filler on the top that also adapts the contact format to match the U5855A. This approach has the disadvantage of lower capacity cells however.If I were carrying out the detailed modification I would carefully cut the contact end plate off of the JVC battery. I would then desolder the two main contacts and thermistor to release the end plate. A new end plate would be fabricated that had the correct contacts present. The sense resistor would be part of the end plate. The power contacts would be connected to the protection PCB with thin wires. The thermistor is just wires to the T contact on the new end contact plate. The new end cap would be mounted on the battery pack either with glue, foam tape or hot melt glue. Note : The battery case should be trimmed such that the contacts are the correct distance from the bottom end of the battery case. This avoids stressing the camera contacts. A small pad may be needed on the contact end of the battery pack to prevent up and down movement if the battery pack.All very straight forward, but it would take time and effort. Whether this is worth it depends upon you finances and sense of adventureFraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 02:56:01 pm
content: It would be nice to come up with an adapter board with the contacts switched around that utilizes a camcorder battery like the JVC or Sony 7.4v batteries, would be a simple cheap conversion without having to tear apart a battery.Doing some research on the battery labels markings I found this information on the UL website.http://productspec.ul.com/document.php?id=NWGQ.MH10188The battery is manufactured by Sanyo / Panasonic.I contacted Sanyo/Panasonic about the battery and any possible comparable ones they may make and all they said was, "This battery is for a portable LCD TV and GPS logging unit, unfortunately we cannot give you any more information or assist you further".Pretty blunt and no help at all.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 03:39:14 pm
content: Keysight (or NEC) very likely paid for kind of exclusivity on this particular design that's indeed just slightly different from many others.Maybe just reusing an existing design but that was for an obsolete device you don't find stuff for anymore...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 03:41:55 pm
content: Hiya Chili-Red,Yes I found the same UL page.I searched on all the batteries in that UL description line but none were similar.You found out more than meUsed in a TV and GPS eh .... I will have to do some more searching. Not many GPS units would take such a format of battery so it may not be too difficult to find.Regarding an adapter, the problem is the length of the battery. twin 18650 cell batteries are too long to have an adapter plate added to them without modifying the camera battery bay/foot. The shorter batteries appear to be of lower capacity but would likely be OK if duration was not an issue.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 03:51:31 pm
content: My first thought on the GPS clue was professional GPS from a company like TRIMBLE.Immediately found the 54344 straight away. Very similar but not the same. The search continues

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 03:59:34 pm
content: Leica GPS1200, GEB221, GX1200, GPS900 Series, ATX1200 battery.More contacts than the Trimble, just not in the right order !

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 04:24:54 pm
content: Well nothing found on my favourite battery web site.....http://www.cameronsinobattery.com/contenido/2-about-us/A similar battery from CS is around $10 to $20 !I have noted that the Keysight battery has reverse polarity of the supply terminals when compared to every other similar battery I can find. Me thinks this is not a coincidenceFraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 04:38:38 pm
content: Fraser,Also found the Trimble batteries right away and checked all the sources I know of for batteries and no luck.I also have a feeling the design may be from another obsolete device and no longer used for anything other than the Keysight.I wouldn't mind a shorter battery life if an adapter could be made and utilize camcorder batteries. 2-3hrs of battery life compared to 4 would be acceptable if they could be easily and cheaply obtained.I sent a suggestion to Keysight about making a battery adapter / box with electronics and having removable 18650 batteries. They at least sent the information to to their design group and are looking into it, not holding my breath for that one though.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 06:07:32 pm
content: Hi all,Does anyone have any thoughts on this as a first thermal camera? My use case is electronics repair and inspiring my 5 year old daughter, she is technical and we have built some robotics kits together. It would be great if it was suitable to track some animals at night too, again just for fun with my kids.I had been considering a Flir one or phone based option but there is no real justification, it's just for fun. I like to buy good tools when I do buy.Cheers,Ruairi

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 06:33:14 pm
content: Ruairi,The U5855A is an excellent self contained thermal camera. It would make a great 'first thermal camera' for the beginner. It is well built, easy to use , manual focus and comes from a thoroughbred design house, that being NEC AVIO in partnership with Keysight (Agilent). It is superb value for money when bought from the Keysight Factory shop.You will just need to buy a very common 12V 3A power supply that has the 2.5mm hole in the inverted power plug. As I say, very common and cheap. The memory card is a standard SD type so easy to read in a PC either directly or via the cameras Mini USB socket. Keysight provide the image analysis and manipulation software fro free on their web site.The Keysight U5855A is a serious thermal imaging tool and it is not a toy. The Flir One Gen 2 is nowhere near as good and is more in the 'toy' category, though it is still quite capable and useful (I own four of them !). The U5855A will serve you well as a tool and as an educational piece for your family. Seeing the world in the thermal domain blows your mind the first time you use it say on the house internal walls, windows and your car after a drive. Using thermal cameras for spotting wildlife is common and the U5855A is capable of such. Do not expect great thermal detail at range though. You will see the hot 'spot' and then be able to approach the animal and use either a red filtered flashlight or night vision monocular with IR illuminator to see the animal in detail.Now to alternatives......I love the FLIR E4 as it can be purchased for less than $1000 and the non-Wi-Fi equipped model may be upgraded from its hobbled 80x60 pixel resolution to its full capability of 320x240 pixels. This does take some 'hacking' of the camera though and is not without risk. The E4 is also fixed focus with quite a wide FOV lens. I love my upgraded E4 though, and that in spite of owning far more capable cameras in my collection.The i3 Thermal Expert is discussed on this forum. It appears to produce some excellent images that are crisp and low in noise. It does require a mobile phone host just like the FLIR One though. The Dongle format hanging off of a mobile phone is a bit like 'Marmite'. You either love it or hate it. I tend to dislike the format. The TE-Q1 is the most affordable version of the Thermal Expert and comes with a wide angle 6.3mm wide angle, or more conventional FOV 13mm lens. I almost purchased a TE-Q1 PLUS with the 13mm lens but the slow readout of the microbolometer creates what is called a 'rolling shutter' effect. I could not live with such a design compromise.There is also the SEEK range of products that come as either a Dongle for a phone or a self contained camera. I do not feel able to recommend any of the SEEK Thermal products at this time.The Therm App is another option but it is quite expensive for what it is. The camera is similar to the Thermal Expert and it needs a phone as a host. It also suffers from the Rolling Shutter issue. It is good, but pricey.Hope this helpsFraser

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 06:44:51 pm
content: Fantastic info Fraser, thank you for taking the time. The $600 for the Keysight is at the very outside of what I could justify, especially on top of the R&S scope and E3631a power supply I bought this week :-) That said the Flir with upgrades does look like an excellent tool.I'm with you re the phone based cameras, I do have an iPhone 7 but the forma factor feels less robust.I really do think the girls would be excited with the thermal world and if I can use it for some repairs all the better.Thanks!Ruairi

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 07:30:45 pm
content: There are many uses for a thermal camera. Some follow......1. Home thermal leakage and draught surveys2. Car thermal surveys on brakes and tyres etc3. Wildlife observation and tracking4. Plumbing leaks and blockages detection, including damp patches5. PC thermal survey to check for impeded air flow6. Electronics - PCB thermal survey7. Finding house wall and ceiling studs for mounting heavy items8. Checking your dinner is hot enough9. Battery charging monitoring to check temperature of individual cells in a pack10. Mechanical surveys looking at motors and bearings for overheating11. Fuse box and electrical wiring surveys looking for hot spots and poor connections12. Pictures of your pets !13. Home or business covert security surveillance.14. Poultry egg and chick temperature monitoring15. Central heating radiator analysis16. Solar Panel surveys (electric and water)17. Air conditioning duct output surveys18. Material occlusion detection19. Wall void detectionThat will do for nowFraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 08:02:06 pm
content: One more use (true, I swear!)I have a two-slice Dualit toaster, with a switch to disable one of the two slots if you only want one slice of toast. But the 'active slot' is not labelled, and I can never remember which it is, as I normally always make two slices, giving me a 50/50 chance of a slice toasted on one side only.Now I have my U5855A, however...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 09:20:11 pm
content: Oh I just remembered another use I have seen mentioned, but not one that I personal have an interest in....... Ghost HuntingPeople look for the cold spots claimed to materialise when a Ghost or disembodied soul pays you a visit.I attach an image of what you might see in such a caseFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:44:15 pm
content: Radio Spares UK had just one of these U5855A batteries showing in stock so that one is now winging its way to me for £55. Modifying a decent quality JVC camcorder battery would be that sort of money to buy anyway when modification time is taken into account.Keep an eye on RS, it appears they receive occasional stock well before their predicted next delivery (July)Fraser

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 04:02:55 pm
content: Thanks for the great list Fraser, i can use it to fight off rational thoughts about saving money. The detailed diagram of the ghost will be especially useful and also a little fun for my kids.Keysight have listings with battery for $630 but I'll have to sell some gear before I buy...

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 06:38:47 pm
content: Hey Kilrah and Fraser,Just a personal thank you for the both (in alphabetical order), you guys put a ton of useful info hereMuch obliged!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 07:13:14 pm
content: @ruairi,Just so you know, the Keysight factory shop is open to reasonable offers and the number of available cameras is finite. These are not just standard stock. They were allocated to a specific purpose and are now being disposed of on management orders. When they have gone, they are gone for good at these prices.I just do not want you to be disappointed.Best WishesFraser

author: davesch1632
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 12:18:55 am
content: I received my unit on Friday, well ahead of schedule from Malaysia ( about 5 days to Phoenix AZ). My unit came with a strap and a battery, no other frills.I acquired this charger and it works fine and reasonably priced.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ZZNHYC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1Some questions on the Thermal picture I see for those in the know: (I apologize if my terminology is weak)The clarity of the image on the screen ( not what is snapped for a picture) doesn't seem near as clear as what I see in the overlay image when using the Flir C2. For example, If I am looking at the pavement which are bricks, I can easily see all the bricks on the Flir as well as the thermal image. With the U5855a, i can't easily make out the bricks. This is just one example, but the clarity of the underlying "Picture" image doesn't seem near as crisp as the C2. I am using the "Iron" thermal image on both cameras so they should compare the same.Also, when I press the laser, I expect it to be in the center of the screen where the circle is showing "center" however the laser actually points to another area (off to the left) of what I would expect to be focusing on.I don't know if these are normal issues or if I am just not set up correctly. I tried resetting to factory defaults but this didn't change anything. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated or I may send this unit back as the C2 has a much better image.Thanks in advance, I hope someone has an answer.Dave

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:05:06 am
content: Quote from: davesch1632 on May 16, 2017, 12:18:55 amWhen the Blend display mode is activated, you can adjust the weight of the visible image in the Picture menu.This is simple blending, unlike Flir's MSX. The visible image data is not used to enhance the definition of the thermal image—they are just overlaid.QuoteThe laser points forward, to the center of the thermal image plane. If you have the focus set incorrectly, the visible image will be very far away.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 12:15:41 pm
content: The battery has just arrived from Radio Spares.Well packed and fully charged !I must also advise that I have caught the 'Orange Bug' from my U5855A.........I have just bought a heavily discounted (50% off) Keysight (Agilent) U1252b Multimeter ! There is a thread dedicated to these discounted 'New Old Stock' meters on this forum. Great value for money. Make an offer of $200 and they auto accept itNow to sell off my FLUKE bench multimetersEEVBlog thread on U1252B....https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bunch-of-keysight-u1252b-meters-around/Auction is here... lots of stockhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agilent-U1252b-Digital-Multimeter/292114412374?_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D3b80995c8872430189c84ddce237cf5b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D262975944846&_trkparms=pageci%253Acaa08cdb-3a30-11e7-97a1-74dbd1808d6c%257Cparentrq%253A112b996515c0aa4759e6fca5fffcea00%257Ciid%253A1Fraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 04:00:39 pm
content: After all most 4 weeks, it finally arrivedIn pretty good shape! Upgraded it to v1.30Bare with me, first TI camera!.While playing around I quickly got the the focussing part. The manual is pretty "light" on this. At first i thought focusing would about the "normal" picture, as with a normal camera. But i quickly figured out, it is all about the IR imageSo, just to be sure, the alignment of the photo and the IR image is not that important? Whats important that is the IR is sharp. You can align both images in the software easily, right? Which makes me think, its best to focus on just the IR modus?Are there anybest practiceshow to achieve accurate focus?Thanks a bunch!

author: -jeffB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 07:57:39 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 14, 2017, 07:30:45 pmIdesparatelywant a nice head-mounted thermal camera/head-up display to use while cooking!

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 08:46:51 pm
content: Some IR photos of dog, daughter, dog's thermal reflection in glass door, dog footprints, my foot through a sock and beams in ceiling. Just playing around but its fun.

author: davesch1632
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 11:28:42 pm
content: Thanks, this helps me better to understand. Plus I worked some on focusing last night and I think I am getting the hang of it. Just need to take some pictures then take a look on the computer. Appreciate the help.Ps - Fraser, thanks for pointing out the DVM. Another thing on the to purchase list now!Dave

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 05:51:37 am
content: Quote from: onesixright on May 16, 2017, 04:00:39 pmThe camera is calibrated so that the IR and visible images should be automatically aligned when focus is good. So either just focus in thermal only by finding the point where it looks the sharpest, or switch to PIP/Blend mode and set focus to align the images and when they are thermal focus is automatically right.BUT if you read my posts above you'll see I had problems where the alignment would not always update correctly in Blend mode, and believe there might be a bug there. In PIP mode it works, but if you then switch to Blend the current alignment sometimes gets "locked" and it stops updating when refocussing.I'm in contact with Keysight about it, would be interesting to know if others see that too.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:16:01 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on May 17, 2017, 05:51:37 amThanks, and sorry, i did read it, but that was a week agoI didn't had the camera yet (so something you read over)Do you know if the imageshouldalign themomentyou "pull the trigger" or is it supposed to be done realtime (i can't see that tbh)?Need to experiment more!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:21:23 am
content: Realtime.Look in PIP mode where the thermal image is only a small square in the visible image, when you turn the focus it will move around and align itself (only apparent at close focusing range, past some "infinity" point it doesn't need to change anymore).Once you found that range, switch to Blend and the sameshouldhappen, you should see the 2 images moving with regards to each other when turning the ring. Mine occasionally did but most of the time not.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:13:55 pm
content: I've just used mine to help troubleshoot some ancient test gear I was restoring. I'd not used it for a while and found the battery was completely discharged. It looks like these units will need to be stored with the battery out, unless the excess current drain turns out to be due to a firmware bug (and which gets fixed).

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on May 17, 2017, 08:13:55 pmI think Kilrah mentioned this already while testing his 3d printed battery. You need to take the battery out once your done.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 05:27:53 pm
content: I now have two of these cameras.I just bought a new old stock FLIR E40 MK1 v2 so I might be willing to sell one of my U5855A cameras. Price negotiable but I do not intend taking a loss on the dealFraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 06:21:43 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 18, 2017, 05:27:53 pmPlanning to start a museum? I think you might be well on your way

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 06:36:50 pm
content: No, I just love this technology and bought rather a lot of the cameras over the years. With well over 50 in my collection now I think it will be time to sell some and have just one example of each, rather than my current 2,3,4 or five of a same model !Sadly some of my industrial cameras are hard to sell due to their high performance and ITAR/Dual Use Technology regulations.Fraser

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 01:22:50 pm
content: If it haven't been mentioned yet then Keysight is giving a free U1231A multimeter to each customer buying used equipment from the ebay store in may.http://stores.ebay.com/keysight/Terms-and-Conditions.htmlThe U5855A listing should be eligible for this.Unfortunately I ordered mine in April, so I just had to order one more

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 02:15:45 pm
content: Quote from: eeviking on May 19, 2017, 01:22:50 pmYes, I ordered something else yesterday from the Keysight ebay store and I was promised one of these U1231A multimeters for free.What a great deal!But, unfortunately only one per customer!

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 07:22:47 pm
content: Quote from: eeviking on May 19, 2017, 01:22:50 pmYes, I just missed out on the deal by a few days - a bit annoying, so I cheered myself up by buying an 87V off ebay which just arrived today.

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2017, 09:17:29 am
content: Hi everyone,based on this thread I bought one of the officially refurbished U5855A devices from Keysight's eBay store.My device seems to have either a bug or is broken, or I'm doing something wrong. I took a video to demonstrate the issue:https://youtu.be/7f-lY7CcKfM?t=1m2sAm I doing something wrong or have I received a bad unit?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2017, 09:44:44 am
content: You have a faulty unit.Contact Keysight via the eBay message facility. Keysight are reading this thread to just let them know you posted a video in it and they will see it.In my experience you will be offered a refund or an exchange at their cost. Keysight offer superb support so you will be well looked after.Fraser

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2017, 09:47:25 am
content: Quote from: onesixright on May 24, 2017, 09:43:13 amAfter booting up the unit, the picture is initially very clear and it is also in focus (so I have set the focus correctly). The temperature readouts are realistic. Then at the 1:02 mark in the video (and it is always roughly a minute after booting) the image suddenly "goes bad". It reminds me of the output from broken VGA cards. It is difficult to describe which is the reason that I went to the trouble of making a video. In any case, after this event it is no longer possible to get a reasonable image until reboot. Temperatures displayed range from "UNDER" to 350°C.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2017, 09:49:14 am
content: Quote from: komet on May 24, 2017, 09:47:25 amSorry m8, Fraser is the expert around here :-) I didnt know what to look, but after reading () your youtube i saw it. Yeah doesn't look good!

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2017, 10:06:32 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 24, 2017, 09:44:44 amThanks for the confirmation that it's not a PEBTIAC. I've contacted them, let's hope everything turns out fine.I have to say that the 30 or so seconds of it working properly is exhilerating and has already got me hooked on thermal imaging. I'm even more excited to get a fully functioning unit now!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2017, 12:22:36 pm
content: Keysight will respond very quickly to your message and I know from personal experience that they just want the customer to be happy. They are even willing to sell the faulty unit to you at a nominal price for parts if you want that option. Another camera is then sent to you from Malaysia.if they do make that offer, and you do not need it, I would buy the faulty unit from you for the parts and pay all postage etc. PM me if you are able to keep the faulty unit and what it would cost to do so.Best WishesFraserUK

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 12:59:36 pm
content: Just to let the forum know, Keysight are going to send me a replacement unit and Fraser has agreed to take the broken one off my hands.I have experimented further with the faulty unit, as the erroneous behaviour might give further insight into the exact workings of the thermal imager. Fraser told me privately (but I'm sure he won't mind me quoting him here):QuoteI've determined that if I power the camera off and immediately on again, the problem persists. It needs a cool-down period of about 4 minutes. Shorter periods may result in a sort of half-working image which is fascinating. The fact that the problem always grows from the top left-hand pixel downwards seems to my mind to indicate a problem in the digital domain. Often the lower part of the image still bears some relationship to reality (Image 1). The Max and Min indicators correspond the the colour on the screen, so the issue is certainly before whatever processing step handles that (Image 2).After the error takes place, the camera settles down to something like Image 3, which no longer has anything to do with reality, and is always shown to be around 36°C, possibly the internal calibration temperature?Occasionally after a short cool-down, some lines of the image work but not others (Image 4).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 02:29:15 pm
content: I have thought more about the fault symptoms and as my initial thoughts have already been posted by Komet, I will provide the pointers that I sent by email to him.------------------------OK here are the pointers.......1. The cameras microbolometer contains an integrated Peltier temperature stabiliser2. The microbolometer contains at least 2 temperature sensors that measure the die temperature for use in temperature stabilisation.3. The temperature stabilisation usually consists of three key parts in the camera....a) The Peltier TECb) The TEC temperature sensor on diec) the TEC controller IC on the main board (usually)4. The TEC controller has one task in life, to maintain the microbolometer die at +32C. It does this using the bias applied across the Peltier TEC and can both heat and cool the die as required.5. The TEC circuit is closed loop. If a fault occurs it is possible for the TEC to suffer a runaway event where it overheats the microbolometer die. This could be the cause of your cameras problem as the microbolometer will fail to function if overheated. Prolonged use in the overheated condition could destroy the microbolometer ROIC as it is not designed to operate at high temperatures.6. The exact cause of a TEC runaway is not known for your camera. It could be the thermal sensor on the die failing, the TEC IC failing or a failed power MOSFET that drives the TEC and caused continuous heating.7. To 'see' what the TEC is doing, you just need to connect the camera to a lab power supply via its DC socket (with battery removed) and monitor the current consumption. At first switch on the TEC applies a lot of current to the Peltier element, so expect a total consumption of around 1.5A. Once the tilde symbol has disappeared from the display, the TEC should reduce current to the Peltier element and the units current should drop to less than 500mA. If this does not occur, the TEC is continuing to heat the microbolometer and you have found your fault cause. The exact component at fault would need component level investigation.Proceed at your own risk but if you really want to repair the unit, my pointers above may at least prove or eliminate the TEC as the cause.--------------------------------As I have already advised Komet, I am not able to carry out remote diagnosis of faults on this forum as it becomes too complex and time consuming. I have provided Komet with some pointers only so that he may decide whether or not he wishes to attempt repair. My interest in the unit is conditional on it still being 'virgin' as that is the safest option when working on faulty equipment.Fraser

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 03:19:02 pm
content: Hi FraserRe #7, power draw is pretty stable at around 290mA @12.1V both before and after the Tilda disappearing. Also the error event can occur either before or after the tilda disappearing. (Yes I was sure to remove the battery) So I wonder if we're barking up the correct tree.In any case I’ve decided not to attempt any repair and you can expect to receive an intact unit.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 05:03:36 pm
content: That current is too low for initial power on.Ok, I will investigate and report here when the camera is with me next month.Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 10:30:00 pm
content: So for those of you that have both the E4 with the resolution hack and the Agilent U5855A, which one, in your opinion has a better image, and functionality differences between the two.TIA

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2017, 04:23:13 pm
content: Keysight video on thermal imaging using the U5855Ahttps://youtu.be/VVW9pm7MhjE

author: Marioka
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 01:09:48 pm
content: Hi.I have drawn a LCD screen of U5850A cameras for make a protection film.I hope it is useful for you.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 02:29:26 pm
content: Marioka,Thank you for sharingFraser

author: exor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 07:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 11, 2017, 03:48:26 pmThanks for the tip. I ordered one and it fits like a glove! There is also enough place to store detached battery inside the case.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 07:50:55 pm
content: Happy to helpFraser

author: Marioka
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 03:35:39 am
content: Hi Fraser.How I can make custom colors plate and update in my camera.Can you teach me.Thank you.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 08:59:09 am
content: I regret I cannot help with such at this time.Others on the forum may be able to assist.Fraser

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2017, 07:03:42 pm
content: @MariokaIf you want to know "where can i create my own palette" ?You need to download the Keysight software. There you can create your own palette. That you can then save, and load (via your SD card) in your camera.Open the software, load a image. On the right (top) you can choose a palette, next to it you see a pencel icon. If you click the pencil, you can set your own color for each value.

author: Marioka
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 05, 2017, 11:58:51 am
content: Hi,OnesixrightThank you very much.

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 05:09:54 pm
content: I finally received a working unit! Very pleased with Keysight service.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 05:32:22 pm
content: Excellent newsFraser

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 07:12:09 pm
content: I took mine out into the garden the other evening. The compost bins 'glow' brightly! Interestingly, I found I can clearly see the locations of the ants nests under the lawn, as they show up slightly warmer than the surrounding grass.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:12:26 pm
content: Look out for bats flying around at dusk. We have a cute pair of bats that do an aerobatic display every evening. I also own some bat detectors so can hear when they are aroundFraser

author: ollihd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:16:22 am
content: Would you guys say that this camera could replace an unhackable E4?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 12:17:11 pm
content: In a comparison between a standard E4 and the U5855A, the Keysight product wins on all levels.The E4 in its standard 80 x 60 pixel configuration is not a great choice when compared to the other , higher resolution, cameras that are now available at a similar price point.80 x 60 is IMHO, a poor resolution for all but the crudest of thermography tasks. I consider 160 x 120 pixels to be the minimum entry level resolution that has broad usage capabilities.Alternatives to the E4 include, Therm-App, Thermal Expert, Keysight U5855A (when heavily discounted as in this thread) and some of the better Chinese camera that are using the ULIS sensors.There is always the option to either buy a new pre 2017 or a used pre 2017 E4 though. The E4 is a VERY nice and capable camera when fully upgraded to E8+ spec. For info, the Exx series beat the Upgraded E4 in all respects. Used FLIR E30/E30bx cameras have been selling for around £1K recently and can be upgraded to full E60/E60bx specification. I bought an E40 and love it.Never before have we had so much choice in Thermal imaging cameras at such affordable prices. A revolution has taken place over the past few years.Used thermal cameras have been appearing in the market at amazing prices as a result of industrial user equipment refresh cycles etc.Finally, do not underestimate the benefits of a decent quality manual focus lens. With manual focus it is often possible to obtain a sharper image than that offered by the deep depth of field provided by a fixed focus lens. Fixed focus lenses will always be a compromise solution, they are still very acceptable in many scenarios. A cheap close up lens may be fitted to either type of lens and the E4 performs well with a 100mm or 50mm FL ZnSe lens in front of its objective.Fraser

author: ollihd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 12:32:06 pm
content: I have an older E4, but when it was in warranty repair the HW got upgraded. I'm sure I can get it sold so now I'm looking for analternative for the E4 (hacked). I would mainly usr it for circuitboard work. Would the Keysight U5855A suffice? I could get one pretty cheap. Btw: the E40 is also hackable?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:03:28 pm
content: The Keysight U5855A is very capable and IMHO, perfect for PCB work. Its manual focus pay dividends and the image quality is more than good enough for most PCB profiling and examination tasks. I now own three U5855A cameras and I am both fussy and very critical of thermal camera performance.Do not be swayed by FLIR's MSX..... such is really only needed to add context to an image and it is not essential for 160 x 120 pixel or higher images . MSX is useless for Close-up work like PCB component inspection. You are always fighting the parallax error.From what I know, all of the Exx range may be upgraded to E60/E60bx specification. I would avoid buying a new one though as new firmware may have been released. There is plenty of information in this forums E40 upgrade thread. I have a MK1 E40 that can definitely be upgraded to full E60 spec without any issues. The E40 gives you great images from a very nice quality microbolometer/lens combination. You also gain full 60fps Thermal image update, composite video output, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, video streaming and MP4 video recording. The Exx range are superb value for money on the used market at the moment. Given the choice of a new E4 for £900 or a 'as new' used E40 for around £1300, I would buy the E40 without hesitation.Then again, I am a collector and heavy user of thermal camera technology. I just bought an 'as new' Ideal 61-848 HeatSeeker 320 camera with 320 x 240 pixels ULIS sensor array for only £280. It has a large manual focus lens, superb image quality and decent build quality. Such bargains are becoming more common if you know where to look for them.The Keysight U5855A is another bargain camera. Considering its original price, it's pedigree and its performance, it is a genuine bargain asking price from Keysight. A classic case of a very large company wanting to sell-off excess inventory at a knock down price. The stock holding is finite though.Fraser

author: ollihd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:40:50 pm
content: Thanks ALOT for the info! I will start selling my unhackable E4 and in the meanwhile buy a Keysight U5855A or Flir E40 (if I find one used for a smart price).

author: ollihd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:20:04 pm
content: After a whole day of pondering and going back and forth I ordered an U5855A from Ebay (official Keysight seller) used with new battery. Cost was 515eur + VAT. I'm sure it will suffice until the new E4 FW gets hacked. Thanks again Fraser!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:52:09 pm
content: Glad I was of some help. You will likely be able to sell the Keysight camera with little or no loss if you decide to do so after the current limited stock is exhausted at KeysightFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 11:02:48 pm
content: The poorly U5855A has arrived from KometI have no spare time this week to investigate its ailment, but a full teardown is likely to be part of the diagnostics process as I need to better understand the design. I shall post pictures and further comment on the fault as and when I have news.Fraser

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 06:25:38 pm
content: Anyone know whether the U5855A can be hacked into an U5857A?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 06:43:33 pm
content: It is unlikely.A thermal camera uses 1,2,3 or 4 ranges to cover a specified temperature capability. The ranges each apply different bias voltages to the microbolometer pixels. Many cameras have 1 or 2 ranges, but in order to cover high temperatures 3 ranges are used. The U5857A uses 3 to cover up to 1200C. The FLIR Exx series use 2 ranges to cover up to 650C. Range 1 usually covers up to 150C.A camera is calibrated using the enabled ranges. If the dormant additional range for high temperature is enabled in firmware on a U5855A, the required calibration points will be absent leading to large measurement errors.Note that the higher temperature ranges and their associated bias voltages cause a reduction in thermal sensitivity. In the U5857A, Range 1 has a spec of 0.08C but Range 3 has a spec of 0.5C !Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 06:51:02 pm
content: Keysight are now selling off Heavily discounted U5857A cameras via their eBay shopThe U5857A provides extended temperature coverage to 1200C.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 07:19:30 pm
content: I also had the dream of "upgrading" my camera but noticed the u5855a's Keysight are clearing out were made before the u5857a was even available. I had a quick look inside mine and saw nothing obvious related to the model number. When Fraser does a more detailed teardown maybe something will jump out but it is likely just a firmware difference. Maybe we'll see a JTAG interface or two.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 07:24:21 pm
content: U585xA Model capability is set by firmware configuration. No hardware difference.Fraser

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 09:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on June 23, 2017, 07:24:21 pmSo it can theoretically be upgraded after all?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 09:54:27 pm
content: Quote from: ixfd64 on June 23, 2017, 09:01:44 pmI suspect it can be upgraded but if it isn't calibrated it may not be that useful. I guess I could still tell which are the hottest parts on my BBQ grill.There has been no calibration information released by Keysight on the cameras.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 04:25:24 am
content: It's also worth mentioning that the 350C upper limit of the U5855A is already well above the entry level of most comparably priced units (not list price, but what people are paying secondhand), so there's sort of less of a need for such an upgrade. Still may be worth trying, and it seems like many of the units Keysight is sending out through their ebay store are still on the 1.00 firmware.I got mine a couple days ago, and while I was happy with my first look at it, the charger I was expecting to fit ended up being a 2.1mm center pin, so I'm waiting for a new one that will fit and the battery has died. Though it was corrected earlier, it's worth mentioning that you need a 2.5mm center pin in your barrel jack - something I didn't even have a spare connector to fit!In my limited time, it seemed to be quite sensitive and auto-ranged pretty well, but some of the color palates appear noisier than others because of how much the colors scale - I think I'd prefer something like Flir's red/blue combination mode, though for instances when the palate appears noisy, grayscale or iron palates work well. The manual focus seems to work fine, but you have to tweak it more at distance - your in-focus working distance within half a meter or so seems to be pretty wide and you don't have to adjust almost at all, whereas farther targets take more lining up. It's useful to turn on the visible camera to help line up the focus, because when the images look properly overlaid and centered, you're in focus.I'm new to thermography, but it's been pretty intuitive to use. I find that a lot of reflective surfaces aren't as misleading as they may seem - sure it doesn't read the right temperature, but it also has the same glare and sheen as a normal glossy or reflective object, so it's usually easy to tell that it's not the right thing, even in thermal-only mode. It also helps that anything that's really generating heat also warms up the stuff around it, so even if the finish is high polish, the stuff it's mounted on will give it a nice warm halo to give you an idea of what's really going on. I look forward to charging it up and taking a look at the house, inside some more equipment, and down to the park to see if I can spot any critters i can't usually.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 10:58:16 am
content: Regarding palettes ..... remember you can create your own custom palettes with this cameraA nice feature not found on the FLIR Ex or Exx series.Fraser

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 07:23:34 pm
content: I think I'll try my hand at it once I get a chance, it is a welcome addition. Wanted to mention the other thing I noticed in my short time using it - the relatively narrow field of view. It's not as narrow as some, but I noticed that the Flir E series generally had much wider fields of view than other brands, and you can see it in using the unit. It won't get in the way of spot checking, and it effectively gives you more detail using the same resolution at the same distance, but it means you have to scan around somewhat more and it feels very different in some respects when taking pictures vs. a regular camera.To give you a rough idea, It's going to be near impossible to take a selfie with this thermal camera, with arm fully outstretched, I was unable to get my entire head in frame (and no selfies are not a thing I usually do)

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 07:57:57 pm
content: For anybody stuck using the Keysight TrueIR software -- I just loaded the sample images into NEC AVIO Infrec Analyzer and it displays the images perfectly. Since these camera lines are both designed by NEC it makes sense.I was extremely unimpressed by the Keysight software. It is inferior in a variety of ways to the NEC software, albeit having a slightly more streamlined UI.For example, the NEC software is able to perform high quality resampling so you can properly resize thermal imagery to any resolution:Keysight TrueIR - notice how pixelated it is. It doesn't even perform any processing beyond palette mapping.TrueIR also can only save to a tiny 320x240 JPEG with lossy compression. If you export a report to PDF the resulting image is riddled with dct artifacts and nearly unpresentable.NEC software can export to an uncompressed BMP with any report material included. However, it does not support custom palettes.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 09:08:29 pm
content: Thanks for the tip on the software marshallh. I own some professional NEC AVIO software and will have try that as well. I will also use the Infrec software now that I have seen the superior resaampling performance.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 09:14:23 pm
content: Dajmasta,The common field of view on industrial thermal cameras was 24 Degrees on a 320 x 240 pixel sensor array. The manufacturers considered that optimum for the resolution. Wide angle and telephoto lenses were made available for applications that required such.FLIR use wider angle lenses than nominal on the Ex series, which is a mixed blessing. You can lose detail in the image but you can use the camera in more confined environs.Fraser

author: adranp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:27:52 am
content: Hi :Fraser,If possible, I want to know your opinion regarding Flir E40 (upgraded to E60) vs this Keysight U5855A. I know you have both.. Was looking for a E40 but this caught my eye and it seems very similar in performance..Thanks in advance..

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:51:59 am
content: The FLIR E40 upgraded to E60 specification outperforms the U5855A in all areas. They are not really equals (Apples and Oranges scenario) as the U5855A contains a 160 x 120 pixel microbolometer, has no Wireless connectivity, no video recording, no interchangeable lens and tops out at 350C. It also uses the slightly more noisy Amorphous Silicon (as opposed to VOx) microbolometer technology.The U5855A is an excellent camera in its class and costs far less than a used FLIR Exx series camera if bought from the Keysight dispodpsal store. That makes it an excellent choice for those not wishing to spend too much, yet still have an excellent quality thermal camera with the many features that the U5855A camera offers.Be advised, Fine resolution mode (Super resolution through image sticking) does not provide a 320 x 240 pixel image equal to that of a camera equipped with a physical 320 x 240 pixel microbolometer array.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 02:22:16 pm
content: Initial non invasive tests on the poorly U5855A.....1. Main system Processor is operating normally, even after fault appears2. Microbolometer and its integral ROIC appears to be operating normally3. Pixel Noise presence in image when fault occurs suggests signal path from microbolometer to video processor is unbroken.4. Thermal image contrast is totally lost during fault. Visible light image is present.5. Cameras auto ranging is ramping during normal operation which is not correct.6. Temperature measurement is reading high (38C) during fault but correctly at other times.7. Video processor appears to crash at times causing image corruption and freeze.8. Camera image processor appears to reset during normal use9. The fault is thermally responsive as it persists until the camera has remained off for a period.All in all an interesting faultI already suspect a potential DC-DC converter issue. Either noise on the rail or varying voltage outside of spec. Such causes havoc in systems that contain ADC's and video processors. The symptoms can be quite unpredictable and chaotic in appearance.The first check will be to substitute known good boards into the faulty unit to isolate the board that contains the fault. The risk to the good boards is low in this particular case. Once the failed board is identified I will download all the IC datasheets and identify all power supply rails. All power supply rails will be monitored for unexpected activity.Without a set of schematics I could reverse engineer the failed board but that takes time I do not have spare at the moment. I will most likely carry out thermal profiling of the board to check for components in thermal distress and then compare key test points with those of a known good unit whilst both are running.More on this repair will appear in a separate thread.Fraser

author: adranp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 02:23:13 pm
content: :Fraser Thanks a lot for your reply.. Just one more thing.. If the E40 would be stuck (not upgradable to E60) would you take it vs U5855A ? Price-wise the U5855A is unbeatable..

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 02:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: marshallh on June 24, 2017, 07:57:57 pmLooks awesome! I'm not truly familiar with their software. But very interesting !Is their software free or only paid? If free, any place for download (did google, but didn't get much wiser)?Thanks!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 02:37:51 pm
content: The situation does not exist..... All versions of E40 may be upgraded to 320 x 240 resolution.Given the choice of a standard non upgraded E40 Vs the U5855A, with both at the same price point, I would choose the E40 as it is still the better camera even when not upgraded....... BUT you will not find a decent fully operational E40 for $600 any time soon. A good used E40 generally costs at least three times as much as Keysight are asking for their U5855A. For some people that is too much to pay for the E40's advantages.I forgot to mention, the Exx series are 60fps image update rate, the U5855A is <9fps. Some applications benefit from the higher frame rate. International shipping of an Exx officially requires a DUT Export licence, the U5855A does not require such.Fraser

author: adranp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 03:27:53 pm
content: :Fraser Thanks for all clarifications.. I was under the impression the newer versions of e40 are un-upgradable.. Really thankful for your replies..

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 06:10:32 pm
content: The new E40 needs a different approach but may be upgraded. Take a look at the E40 upgrade thread for further detail.The latest version of E4 is not currently upgradeable.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
content: For those interested in the NEC AVIO NS9500LT-B image analyser software, I have just gone through the ordering process for free download.The download appears to require you to be a current owner of a NEC AVIO camera so I just input details of my TH7102WH camera. The download is provided after these details are verified. I am not sure whether the software is available without going through this process. The download is 43MB.So whilst this software is 'Free', it may well require you to already be a customer in order to download it.http://www.infrared.avio.co.jp/en/support/thermo/download/ns9500lt-dl/index.htmlI own the full (non lite) PRO version of the software already and the more advanced 3rd party R&D analysis software that cost an arm and a leg. I suspect the Lite version will be fine for most though as the more capable software packages just provide more R&D type tools and remote control of the cameras that they support.The NEC AVIO software download page provides many programs to download and use with their cameras. Some are free, others are upgrades to licensed programs. The NEC AVIO software naming convention and download pages leaves something to be desired. I suggest downloading the free programs to see if any work with the U5855A and appeal to you.http://www.infrared.avio.co.jp/en/support/thermo/download/software.htmlFraser

author: exor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 03:28:43 pm
content: As I don’t have any NEC AVIO camera I just input my Keysight camera type and serial number. I also told that I would like to test if their program (free NS9500LT-B) it is better than Keysight program for picture handling and they were kind and sent the link with ID and password. Excellent service!Not tested the program yet, currently downloading..

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:25:53 pm
content: Excellent newsThe U5855A is partly their product, but they need not be so friendly so Kudos to them

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 05:43:02 am
content: Got my charger today and ended up spending a couple hours with the camera. Battery life is quite good, maybe 3h or so in total running and a chunk of it with max display brightness and I'm down one bar on the indicator. Also, the 1.30 firmware adds the palate I was thinking of, it's called "Iron" though there was a "Hot Iron" variant that was even on the old firmware.Only time I notice the sensor noise is really low dynamic range where it tends to be warmer, but there's occasionally a sort of crosshatch pattern in that situation, otherwise the fidelity has been great, hard to believe the sensor is only 160x120. I'm getting a hang of figuring out when things are reflections or what effects are the result of the sun or other things too, it's a new world to get used to seeing in some respects.I hooked up the RCA output to a cheap capture card ($6 or so) and got video on the PC with no issues, the screen goes off when it's sending video, but the video is an exact copy of what's normally on the display. It may be my imagination, but the framerate almost looks higher on the video connection - if it is, it's not by much, but it seemed smoother than I'd expect from 9fps. My unit had a broken strap tab (making it a good chunk cheaper!), but I got a small piece of rope around the base and through the tab on the other side and it works just fine.For some reason, my readings seem to be a little high - 3C or so at body temperature and a bit more at the high end of the range. I think this is probably due to my settings, I'm running all defaults and while the ambient temp and humidity are about right, I'm not sure everything is set properly, will have to look into it, the emissivity settings were correct at least for the skin tests, and the relative differences seem to be right, best I can tell. One notable exception to running hot is foliage - it seems to read very cold most of the time. Probably partly because of the water transfer out the bottom of leaves (this was in the evening) and partly because of the material itself, but it was interesting to see negative number readings on a warm day outside.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 02:32:12 pm
content: I am pleased that you are pleased with your cameraThey are very nice and the fine resolution mode (image layering to 320 x 240 pixels) does help improve the images produced.Measured temperatures can be effected by camera settings, with emissivity being the greatest influence on such. Be aware that skin is the exterior temperature of the body so it is generally cooler than the core. Checking the temperature at your temples or inside your mouth may provide a more accurate reading.A thermal camera temperature measurement is normally specified as +-2C or 2%. It is not the most accurate temperature measuring device as there are so many influences on IR non contact temperature measurement.Fraser

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 10:29:31 am
content: Foll those that bought a U5855A with broken handle holder, like me, here is a good working fix.I have used a 2mm stainless steel rod and mad it fit with one single bend.The holes I drilled carefully with a 2mm drill bit and then glued the rod in place.This solution works really well and is much stronger that the original plastic holder.I just painted the rod black with a sharpie, otherwise it looked a little weird.

author: ollihd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 03:50:10 pm
content: Finally got my U5866A. Came with a working strap and a new battery. Compared the calibration to my just calibrated E4 and it seems to be spot on. The ability to manually focus for me is extremely important (a must have in the future). My question is: when taking a really close up photo, is it normal for the non-IR image to be misaligned / not the same with the IR-image? This seems to happen on very close up images. This is probably due to the different lenses? The same happens with the laser also (of course?).As I didn't have a charger for the unit I went to my local flea market and got one for 3€. For the case I bought a Pelican -case replica for 35€ and it works like a charm.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 04:11:04 pm
content: He has arrived. Pictures taken with both U5857A and F30S which are similar in many ways"Fine resolution" does work sometimes, it makes the image a little better. Definitely not a replacement for a real 320x240 sensor. But it is a slight step up.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 12:00:51 am
content: Easily comes apart. Mind the gasketUnlike the other NEC Avio-designed camera I have (F30S), there is no sign of design/plug compromises to fit space.Back of acquisition board. LTC2245 is a 10-bit, 10MSps ADC.Very similar TMS320 used as on F30S. Has 128MB DDR2. They sure love the TI bus buffers. On F30S they use a X3S100 fpga. Not sure what he AVATAR bga is, probably a CPLD. NEC Avio don't seem to have a vendor preference for Altera or Xilinx. BQ24171 battery management.Interesting that they used the Industrial temp grade version. 7 = Mid-range speed grade. Wired to 64MB DDR2. AVIO logo is visible on the board.All instances of "PB-FREE" are crossed out.Microbolometer is not shielded from dust, so rubber gasket on case is justified.Interestingly, same package but much smaller window than F30S' sensor which is also 160x120. Take care to clean off dust if any appears.Geared down focus pot. Shutter actuator is identical to F30S and sounds the same.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 12:40:33 am
content: Great tear down - thank you for the excellent pics. When I opened mine I had a quick look for flash/eeprom but didn't see much. In your pics I still don't see too much that is obvious. I see the EPCx16N which is storage for the FPGA. The chip marked "AVATAR" doesn't look too standard for a flash part but I guess it is possible. More then anything I was wondering if they stored the camera unique information in the main flash or in a smaller eeprom. If we wanted to change the model # a small eeprom would be very useful.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:20:36 am
content: AVATAR may be an odd aspect ratio NOR flash. Usually they are never square (but they do exist). I agree that it is the only real place firmware could be hiding. The EPCS16 is good for 2 megabytes but the bitstream size for the FPGA is at least 1/3 of that.I've confirmed that the F30S does actually run the exact same DM644 processor. It uses a BGA Spansion NOR flash with 64mbyte capacity. So I think you are right.However, I've spotted at least 2 more chips of interest - the Microchip (probalby 24FC series eeprom) and the chip whose I2C lines are shared next to it.Here is the board inside the F30S - designed by the same team pretty obviously:

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 03:07:21 am
content: It looks like U22 is a Microchip 24FC128 and U25 is a TI PCA9306 bidirectional i2C bus voltage level translator.Who feels like removing U22 and dumping its contents?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 01:16:25 pm
content: Marshallh,Many thanks for the excellent pictures. I have just returned from holiday and will be delving inside my faulty U5855A soonFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 01:22:41 pm
content: Regarding the design of this camera.The pictures from Marshallh show a well designed camera but also quite a low level of integration. This is the sort of thermal camera that I am used to seeing on my lab bench. They are far easier to work in than the latest platforms that are highly integrated and often harder to repair.I believe the U5855A may be a product of the NEC AVIO G30 and that may explain the relatively 'old school' design. Nothing wrong with that though.Fraser

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 12:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: eeviking on May 19, 2017, 01:22:50 pmDid anyone receive the free U1231A ?I have not heard anything from Keysight about it.

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 01:41:27 pm
content: Ok got a reply from Keysight that they will be shipping the U1231A soon...

author: adranp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 04:01:28 pm
content: :eeviking - When did you buy the U5855A? Is the promotion still active?Thanks..

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 05:19:17 pm
content: The Keysight promo was a free u1231a with any purchase from the eBay store during the month of May. I also missed out!

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 06:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: eeviking on July 14, 2017, 12:57:20 pmI am suppose to get one as well, since I bought something in May from the Keysight store.So far I have not heard anything but it was stated at the beginning that it would ship by the end of July

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 07:38:16 pm
content: Hi,I got my U5855A a few days ago. I paid ~520€ for it with additional 100€ shipping and import fee, thats a great price I guess. Included was the camera and a new battery.I am realy impressed by it, but I have a question. The Camera doesnt show the "Fine-Resolution" mode in the menue, but it is always on. How can that be?Also, here are a few pictures, the last one is upscaled with waifu2x.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 09:22:09 pm
content: I guess that the fine resolution mode is intrinsic to the camera - it is essentially combining multiple images in each (slow) 9 fps image and I can't see any advantage to an option to turn it off. If the camera was tripod mounted then the multiple images wouldn't change so the effective resolution would be less (ironically).It does allow you to select between 3MP and 1.3MP visible cameras.Is there a reason that you'd like to turn off the fine resolution?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 09:39:57 pm
content: Please read the user manual.The fine resolution mode is default "on" but the user manual tells you how to switch it "off". I cannot remember the procedure at the moment. When it is "on" you see the orange icon at the top of the display.Fraser

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:09:00 pm
content: Hi Fraser,thats the problem, it doesnt tell how to turn it off or on. I would like to see how it looks with it turned off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:10:53 pm
content: OK, I will find it for youFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:17:32 pm
content: Page 21 of the user manualRelevant info attachedAre you saying this menu option is not present on your camera ?Also note that the camera has a 320 x 240 pixel display so even with Fine Resolution switched off, interpolation will be used to upscale the image from 160 x 120 to 320 x 240 pixels. This is stated in the manual.Fraser

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:29:10 pm
content: Thank you very much. On the new user manual, it is not described anymore (if you download it from keysight).Also here is the place where it should be

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:50:22 pm
content: I see your problem !I am still using the camera 'as supplied' and the firmware has not been upgraded. I saw no reason to do so at the moment.I have been using issue 2 of the manual from here:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/U5855-90000.pdfAnnoying if they have now prevented disablement of the Fine Resolution mode. I do not like loss of control over when it is applied.I shall fire up my cameras tomorrow and have a play with them. I have a partially faulty camera that is running the latest firmware so I can compare.Fraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:53:09 pm
content: I've never found a way to disable fine resolution mode with the newest firmware. I assume having it on is preferred but it still would be nice to compare with and without.

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 12:48:38 am
content: Ah, thanks then Fraser and TheSteve

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 03:29:13 pm
content: I realy start to like the camera

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 05:25:56 pm
content: Getting the focus right can be the challenge sometimes.For really close-up work you can place a cheap ZnSe lens in front of the objective. Choose from 50, 64 or 100mm FL for around £10 deliveredThe FLIR E4 related threads have more information about such Close-up lenses. They are cheap from China as they are used in CO2 laser applications.Fraser

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 06:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on July 15, 2017, 10:53:09 pmSomeone should contact Keysight and tell them to update the manual.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 02:41:54 am
content: Fine Resolution only takes effect when you take a shot. This is why there is a small delay when pressing the trigger. On earlier NEC Avio platforms there is no such delay.So the live preview will not have fine resolution, but when you take a snapshot it creates a fine resolution image snapshot.

author: Bruno28
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 06:33:22 am
content: So is this U5855A on one of the best low cost thermal cameras available? Best 'price for resolution' Thermal camera?Im looking to get another one but didn't want to spend over $800 usd. Fraser, did you get yours for $450 usd or pounds?

author: simingx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 07:59:52 am
content: Just picked one up, after which they promptly listed another one with a broken strap holder for US$60 less...Are the lenses on these things sensitive to moisture; i.e. should I keep it in the dry box when not in use?

author: Bruno28
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 11:59:06 am
content: What is the charger needed for these cameras? Can it be charged inside the device?Voltage, current and socket size?Answered from looking at other posts."12V 3A with a standard 2.1mm connector and positive in the center."Ive got like 100 units of 12v 2Amps but not sure if the centre is 2.1mm I'll have to check. Using a 2amps should work, just will take longer to charge, correct?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 01:05:03 pm
content: The charger uses a 2.5mm centre. The 2.1mm centre spec was in error.A 2A rated power supply should work fine as the provided 3A unit is almost 100% overrated for the task. It is just a standard DVE unit Agilent decided to use.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 01:11:21 pm
content: Bruno28.I paid $520 but 20% VAT is added. Included shipping to the UK.Fraser

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 05:49:51 pm
content: My camera had a few broken pixels. Contacted Keysight, got a new camera \o/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 07:35:29 pm
content: Did you keep the old one for spares or send it back ?Fraser

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 07:59:33 pm
content: They wanted it back ofc. The "new" one actually has the old firmware, in which i can enable the fine-resolution again.But I will upgrade it, the new one seemed to be faster

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 06:31:59 am
content: I updated the firmware now and actually it is faster, also with the additional features the update is worth it.

author: JanHenrik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 08:06:58 am
content: Both edited with the InfreC Analyzer by NEC.First image: a bottle of cold chokolade, the color represents the levelSecond one: my Thinkpad W530 fan

author: ddrl46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 10:42:54 pm
content: Did anyone get their free U1231A yet?

author: davesch1632
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 03:41:46 am
content: I have not. I sent a couple of emails over the last few weeks through Ebay, I haven't had any responses.

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 04:05:38 pm
content: When I asked them over a month ago they said they started shipping the free DMMs to asia. EU and US would follow soon...

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 05:54:01 pm
content: I received my U1231A today in Germany.A great thank you to the people at the Keysight ebay store !

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 03:14:14 pm
content: Kudos to the people of Keysight, got my U1231A today (Czech Republic)!

author: ddrl46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 07:04:01 pm
content: Received my Keysight U1231A today as well.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2017, 10:25:34 pm
content: I received an unexpected parcel from Keysight todayIt would appear I have qualified for a free gift as wellChristmas came earlyFraser

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 01:09:53 pm
content: I was sadly about a month too early with my order to qualify - but perhaps they'll have surplus instruments and start sending them out to earlier customers!

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 12:58:38 am
content: There was a Flir E5 for sale locally so I picked it up to compare to my U5855A. It had firmware 1.22 and now thinks it is an E8.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 09:51:38 am
content: The Ex series has the advantage of double the physical resolution covering double the FOV, so whilst the pixels per degree of view are actually very similar, the Keysight does offer the advantage of manual focus which can be very useful. The Ex series also have a small advantage with the VOx microbolometer, this can be better in terms of column noise than the A-Si microbolometer used in the U5855A.Both cameras are excellent thermal cameras but obviously the E4 or E5 cameras needs to be released from its chains to compete with the Keysight camera. Well done for buying an Ex camera to upgrade.For info, the Exx series, upgraded to their full E60 capabilities are a force to be reckoned with and do outperform both the Ex and U5855A cameras. Keep an eye out for a good deal on oneFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 05:19:53 am
content: I'd love an Exx but this is the first used Ex series I've seen in a few years of looking locally(they just aren't that common and I can't easily drag one across the border from the US).So far I wish I could combine the features of the Flir with the U5855A. The U5855A was clearly built as a more premium unit, it has the laser, flashlight, bigger LCD, manual focus. The hot/cold spot tracking is much better. I like that the SD card can be easily removed and it has video out. I also find the min/max thermal levels much easier to change with the Keysight camera. I can easily select a range which makes it very easy to spot wildlife(or my cat) in the back yard. The laser has also been useful when I found a tiny hotspot inside a huge rhododendron bush. The laser was bang on lighting up the hummingbird hiding in it. Pretty sure the Keysight is also more accurate with temps below 0 and works to a hotter temp.The Flir is a little smaller and can charge from USB. Once hacked(unless you buy an E8) has higher resolution which at the end of the day is probably the most important single feature. Then there is MSX, which does seem to work extremely well most of the time. The visual camera overlay on the U5855A works ok, but in general I've left it turned off.I don't intend to start a thermal camera collection so I'll need to sell one of them but haven't made up my mind for certain yet.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 09:28:27 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on August 28, 2017, 05:19:53 amI totally agree. For a while I had both of them, a liberated E4 to E8 and the U5855A and I found myself using the Flir much more often for the same reasons you have been mentioning. So, I sold the U5855A to a friend.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 05:41:30 pm
content: OTI have just returned from a short holiday and was aware, thanks to a neighbour, that Keysight had delivered a package to me.As I had not ordered anything from Keysight and did not think I had qualified for the May multimeter give-away, it was a bit of a mystery.Well sure enough the parcel contained a shiny new Keysight U1231A Basic Multimeter. Date of Calibration is 2 June 2017 so its fresh off the production line.I was puzzled by this unexpected arrival as I bought my U5855A camera in April. I had forgotten that I had a minor issue with it and Oliver supplied me with another for a very special price whilst I kept the faulty unit. It was the purchase of the heavily discounted replacement camera in May that qualified me for the free multimeter.So I ended up with a perfect U5855A, a U5855A that I had to repair (power controller IC), and a free U1231A multimeter. I rarely get such wonderful service from a company and have absolutely no hesitation in recommending Keysight to anyone based on their excellent customer service. Oliver is a star !The U1231A Basic Multimeter is quite a dinky unit. It does not have current ranges but it does have some unusual features included. It can provide PC connectivity for logging via an isolated cable or Bluetooth module (which I already own). it also has capacitance, frequency and temperature capabilities in addition to the usual line up of continuity and diode test etc. The meter also provides an LED flashlight function with a nice bright emitter on the rear of the case. A pity about no current capability but it is wonderful as a giftThank you KeysightFraser

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 07:54:54 pm
content: Lucky duck! I bought my U5855A too soon.

author: simingx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 11:46:07 pm
content: And I bought mine too late

author: gwu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 10:12:40 pm
content: Would you know where it would be possible to download the free software without having a NEC device?Thank you

author: simingx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 03:29:38 pm
content: They sent the link to me when I entered the serial number of my U5855

author: korlatos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:04:59 pm
content: I recently bought a U5855A from the Keysight ebay store and received it today. Upon power up, the unit repeatedly performs a calibration cycle (a clicking sound followed by a brief freeze on the LCD and a "Calibrating..." message being displayed). This is my first exposure to thermal imagers, so I don't know if this is normal or I got a faulty unit. The calibration is running every 10-15 seconds on start-up, but the frequency is slowly decreasing as the time goes by. Do you think there is a problem with the unit?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:18:51 pm
content: Completely normal! Enjoy the camera.

author: korlatos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:31:49 pm
content: Good to know. Thank you for a prompt reply!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 12:25:54 pm
content: UPDATE ..... SoldFor anyone interested, I am going to sell one of my Agilent/Keysight U5855A thermal cameras.I have two perfect units and do not need the duplication so one needs to go to a new home.I will place it in the Buy & Sell section of this forum.Fraser

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 11:31:56 pm
content: I know this is an older thread, but Keysight recently put two more up for sale:https://ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-U5855A-TrueIR-Thermal-Camera-Imager-350-degree-Celsius-Agilent/183349578770https://ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-U5855A-TrueIR-Thermal-Camera-Imager-350-degree-Celsius-Agilent/173427098264