Invitation to CEM China about Oscilloscope/DMM review Turn out successful !!    - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 05:48:25 pm
content: I am happy to report that I got an reply about my invitation to the Chinese CEM about requesting a sample of their latest Oscilloscope/DMM DT-99S for review.In about an hour I got the reply of Mr Jianmin Yuan, with a positive response to my request.Even so the news is a bit salty due the fact that this unit is not in full production yet.And there will be some delay about sending the sample.I am working on finding the exact timing about the product release period, but the good news are that they accepted my invitation.http://www.cem-instruments.com/en/pro/pro-463.html

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 07:04:03 pm
content: Oh well, I am very interested in the quality of the Meter as you may guess.I am still a bit attracted by the DT9979 which I just found at a German reseller for under 200Euro (incl. Shipping and VAT) what seams to be very fair I guess.......I saw the Scopemeter here also on their website, but the Hantek DSO8060 is more or less what I would buy as Portable scope. Nevertheless, lets see how good they are. At least they seem to still have low prices

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 08:39:08 pm
content: I just found the Users Manual of the DT-9989 Oscilloscope/DMM.http://www.gme.sk/_dokumentace/dokumenty/729/729-034/orn.729-034.1.pdfAbout the pricing, I am very confused.I have found a link that suggests pricing of 830-1000$ US .. for the DT-9989.I am suspecting a wild goose chase of non educated buyers, organized by middle mans who has access to CEM.As soon I will receive the device, test it and all, I will request info from CEM , about their official distribution network in Europe.They will point out the sellers that the buyers can trust, about pricing and support.My lips are sealed until to see some real movement about the sample unit.Even so nothing can take my smile away of this fourth in the row success.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 08:54:12 pm
content: Yeah I also found some obscure sellers on Aliexpress and so on that wanted about 850 USD for DT9989......ridiculousThey my keep trying to sell....I think the price may be more about 300euros. The picture shows the CEM Handheld scope DT990S but the specs fit to the DT99sLink is in your Mail. The price is about 8000 Czech Crowns.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 09:14:03 pm
content: Achilles you have become my favorite information seeker !!But I am one step ahead on the score board for now.Availability ...... The central warehouse No ...... expected arrivals ... 51st week of 2011 = DecemberAbout the pricing you are correct, 300 EUR with out VAT

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 09:27:01 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 27, 2011, 09:14:03 pmYeah, you are welcome!So there will be some time until you can test your CEM Scopemeter and tell sth. about it's quality. ...Let's see if I buy a DT-9989 before and have a look about the quality.....I will keep an eye on that thread here. Maybe they send you some preproduction meter or so earlier.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 09:37:31 pm
content: The fact that they show a ~6kHz sine plus the banana jack inputs doesn't make me optimistic about bandwidth.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 09:52:40 pm
content: So far I have see DMM units to measure up to 20MHz as frequency counter due the banana plugs.I would expect that they had research this matter, but from the other hand its just a 5Mhz DSO !!Here is a picture of the probe, more pictures in the PDF above.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 09:58:58 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 27, 2011, 09:37:31 pmBoth, DT-99s and DT-99G (seems to be a 99s with Low Impedance mode, Low Ohm measurement and Low Pass Filter as they state there) are rated up to 5MHz in the specs...... if you could really use them up that that Range may be sth. to try out, but 6Mhz and 40MS/s sounds quite fair for some general stuff in the Field. I don't expect that meter to replace a proper Oscilloscope and it just has 1Channel. So it's more a basic tool for quick troubleshooting.I could imagine it's use in automotive diagnostics, but I am somehow missing the BNC connector.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 10:17:03 pm
content: Just a comment about the BNC to banana adapter, looks really well designed, lets hope that the center pin (female) it is at the right dimensions,so to easily hook up my AC/DC clamp probe on it.I was had an major issue in the past with this Chauvin Arnoux PAC12 clamp.The center pin is too thin in diameter and the cheap adapters did not work out ( contact issues).I got two used Pomona ones, and I found my cure for good.All those details and more will be part of my review.But looks that probably it would came here by the Santa Claus.Personally I do not mind about the waiting time, I would be busy with the DER EE review.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 12:11:15 am
content: Frequency counting is easy. Lots of attenuation is no problem as long as your original signal is strong enough. Probes are often rated at a much higher bandwidth for frequency counter than oscilloscopes. The response doesn't have to be very flat over the frequency range, since distortion doesn't really matter. A scope requires much better fidelity. At 5MHz, it's probably fine, although circuit loading is going to be huge. The meter input is 20pF. Assume 100pF for the leads (seems to be in the ballpark for capacitance measurements before nulling it out). This represents an impedance of about 300 ohm at 5 MHz. Compare this to a 10x scope probe with maybe 15pF of capacitance. Induced currents may also be an issue with the unshielded leads, especially in an electrically noisy environment.Is 5MHz bandwidth (usable up to say 1MHz signals) enough for modern industrial electronics? This is obviously not going to replace the bench scope, but I would imagine even power electronics to involve some higher frequencies these days. The Fluke ScopeMeters (not a bench scope replacement either, but closer) seem to aim for much better specs, of course at matching prices, so I guess their market research shows that their customers require this.Kiriakos: I wonder if it's the clamp meter or the cheap adapters that are non-standard.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 01:09:05 am
content: Quote from: alm on October 28, 2011, 12:11:15 amMy complain was about the expensive AC/DC clamp probe from France ( oscilloscope probe) , and the cheap adapters that I got from ebay.By getting the POMONA-1269 the problem was solved , but a new smaller problem came up, the 1269 its not shrouded and it offers a basic support.The shrouded ones gives you more confidence, major stability about the contact of the banana plugs, plus there is no chance this cable to move even from accidental shaking or vibrations.I was ready to go for a shrouded Fluke adapter, but they sell them in pairs of two, and the price was getting very high.And so I got those two used Pomona from Canada, 15$ shipped.But I still have in my hidden wish list the Fluke shrouded adapter.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 02:01:35 am
content: Just spotted at the Russian web sites, an picture illustrating some modes of this colorful display.The picture quality are poor.But the display looks good looking at my blue eyes.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 09:13:35 am
content: Dear CEM representative,Should you read this thread, please read this too here ->https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=5489.msg71497#msg71497Suggesting you to do a verification and background check before you send any free sample, at least hang out here for a while to see if this guy is really fits in you criteria.If it is going to be reviewed, it should goes to an experienced oscilloscope user right ? With his score as the king of ignore list among many members here, your product will not getting enough exposure, and if you really want to know details about this, just pm me, I will show lots of fine examples here.Btw, if the reviewer don't know how to use an oscilloscope, how can you expect the review will be decent enough ?Understand that advertising through product review is about an image shaping and conveying good message about your product, if your product is being reviewed by a nasty guy, the image that the readers perceived will be severely distorted and believe you don't want this to happen.You should contact Dave or other better behaved members that have better knowledge and right skill to do the job.Thank you.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 11:21:44 am
content: Honestyl BravoV..... take your time and do something with with it than picking out Kiriakos-GR testing threads. They may be much up to date with all the shipping progress and what-ever, but OK. That is up to him.If you don't like him or his posts then ignore him and let the others around here struggle for themselves whether to ignore him or not. There is no point in just picking out his threads and tear them down about his skill in english, his kind of reviewing, his what-so-ever.Honestly, it doesn't let you shine a bright light. I had my issues and talks with Kiriakos, too. We talked about it via personal message and email and that is fine. Personal experience can't stand for the opinion of the others and there is no need to flood topics with personal disagreements or opinions about somebody.To the topic: A review by Dave or or anyone else here would be highly appreciated by me. The more have look on it the better you can decide if it's worth spending your money or not. I am myself thinking about buying the DT-8879 Graphical meter and may have a look over it later (if anyone is interested). If not, then not. Right now I have more work to do for a field-campaign. So that will be in december or so when I am back.

author: MBY
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 01:09:55 pm
content: One question only: Does the osc function in current mode?The UNI-T 81x is in most ways a piece of s--t instrument, but it does one thing right: The osc function works with µa, mA and A as good as voltage. With no cursors, no storage beyond screen and a just standard DMM function, the instrument (UNI-T or branded VC1008 from Conrad) I was quite disappointed except for the novel function of a scope view for all current ranges at full bandwidth.The CEM DMM DT-99S appears to be a much more capable instrument with a decent DMM and even a "toy FFT" mode, but does it works with current in osc mode?(The VC1008 was not explicitly stated to work with current in osc function, but it does and it does it well. Maybe the CEM DMM DT-99S also can do this? The manual doesn't say. I suppose testing is the only way to know.)

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 01:36:22 pm
content: Hello MBY,Check the attachment and see if you get any answers from it.The information found on the web about this unit is very confusing,and there is a good reason about it, this product is not here yet, but under production and constant development.If you do not find your answers in this part of the document, just send me one PM, so to email to you the complete document.

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 03:49:25 pm
content: I'd like to see a full video and teardown on it from Dave. His brand of reviewing is what I love seeing most as it's extremely informative and still lets you sit back and enjoy it. Personally I'd love to hear his opinion on this.If anyone is willing to do a video on it that'd be awesome. Pictures just don't do it for me anymore ;(.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 07:40:18 pm
content: I would genuinely love to see the type of letter you write to these companies in order to get these free sample meters. I'm not being sarcastic here either!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 08:03:43 pm
content: Quote from: PStevenson on November 08, 2011, 07:40:18 pmI can reply with something fancy in a such of question (in my excitement) ,but I think that my parents worth most of the credit about my communication skills.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 08:34:00 pm
content: well my hat's off to anyone who can get something for free! I have noticed a bit of anger directed at people who get things for free such as when I got some sample IC's from TI etc. people said I was wrong for doing it.so good on you for achieving the dream, well my dream haha

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 08:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 08, 2011, 08:03:43 pmYassouHey, don't talk bad about your parentsKali nihta!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 08:56:49 pm
content: Yes the parents .. the most important link of the chain, of what we are today.My father an freelancer cars electrician, was my teacher about tools / craftsmanship / and competitiveness.My mother, an very educated designer of public buildings, was my teacher about politeness and manners.I am the total of those two worlds.About the quality of my English language, I blame solely my self, I prefer 70% the craftsmanship & 30% the Books.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 09:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: Balaur on November 08, 2011, 08:39:39 pmWhile his parent may or may not be responsible for the language skills, it would be entirely unfair to assume them responsible for any pomposity, arrogance, rudeness or lack of personal grace.Those who enjoy drip feed postal updates, mad rants about fights to the death, and myopic views should be free to continue unhindered. For the rest there is the ignore function. I couldn't give a fig how much free stuff anyone can procure, it would be childish jealousy to think any different. Equally it would be ignorant to see jealousy as the sole cause of the perpetual user friction.The retaliations aren't helpful neither is K-gr's inflated and very much misguided sense of self importance.K-gr has shown himself too ignorant to show respect for others so again I'd suggest that those with a grievance take the moral high ground by simply selecting ignore.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 10:02:51 pm
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on November 08, 2011, 09:13:30 pmWhich doesn't prevent Crackpot-GR and his sucker Private Fluffer from doing more damage and harassment. Just putting them on ignore is not enough, you ought to watch your back, too.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 10:15:33 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on November 08, 2011, 10:02:51 pmToo true! Can you suggest a solution apart from what many would like to do? Besides getting four strong horses at short notice is a real hassle.QuoteMeh, mere numbskulls are no cause for paranoia.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 10:18:07 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on November 08, 2011, 10:02:51 pmI hope that private fluffer jibe wasn't directed at me.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 08:27:42 am
content: Quote from: PStevenson on November 08, 2011, 10:18:07 pmdont mention that steve. your 65 posts is what you need to be out of trouble. people talking about respect... and they showed "good" example. yes, some places, got history too, and slight reflection of it can still be seen today (only ladies made assumption and deny it). maybe we should act like "know it all" and only made a post to slam other people, just to prove how good we are. i dont give a fuck to any racists!NEW SLOGAN: POST TO SLAM, CONTRIBUTE NOTHING!hear that! say it! before this thread got locked up!

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 08:58:28 am
content: I'm not sure what the 65 posts thing means but I have been a member for almost a year my lack of posting is due precisely because various arrogant peoplefeel the need to use this place to keyboard warrior each other.BoredAtWork has verbally attacked me before for no reason.I was talking to Kiriakos, I wasn't insulting any of you so why don't you go and do some actual electronics and pour your bile elsewhere - the internet isn't your own torment headfuck playground. grow up

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 09:35:54 am
content: Quote from: PStevenson on November 09, 2011, 08:58:28 amI dont want to get that "private fluffer" status but i can say i definately enjoy posts from BoredAtWork, i consider him one of best and most interesting posters here

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 09:40:57 am
content: It is funny how some people moan and moan about other people but instead of justsimply ignoring them - as they claim they do like a broken record - they feel the need to spread theircomments around anyway, annoying other users and giving the place a bad vibe.Why not just grow up and shut up about it and get on with your lives? Is it really worth it?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 12:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on November 09, 2011, 09:35:54 amnow the Uncle is going to be in your fav list too? i do like BAW most of the time too, his posts are a funny joke, but sometime he crossed the line IMHO. thats what he is i think... "bored at work". you considered him as "best"? based on what? based on faith?Quote from: david77 on November 09, 2011, 09:40:57 amnow you're starting! felt the urge donchya? now my advice, is keep your #ofpost down while you can before someone start to get pissed off at you. dont let yourself be in my situation or that "charming" Kiriakos. # of post is the netcop's top wathclist.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 12:45:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 09, 2011, 12:40:58 pmWe all have our criteria

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 07:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: david77 on November 09, 2011, 09:40:57 amSomewhat inept at following your own directives?

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 09:15:34 pm
content: This topic has turned somewhat toxic.I personally would love to review certain products from a student's perspective but I doubt any manufacturer's would like to see a review from a student since most of their sales come from professionals.Oh well, a man can dream.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 10:05:33 pm
content: Quote from: Armin_Balija on November 09, 2011, 09:15:34 pmit might be worth trying because when I was a student I wanted to hear about things from other students - professionals used terminology I didn't yet understand so you never know they may be up for it

author: MBY
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2011, 08:37:02 pm
content: Quote from: Armin_Balija on November 08, 2011, 03:49:25 pmThank you. The manual doesn't say explicitly but it does not look good as only voltage is mentioned. Well, I hope that you try it if and when you receive your review unit!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 12:14:54 am
content: Quote from: MBY on November 19, 2011, 08:37:02 pmHi MBY .Well about this unit I am very excited, mostly because it would be my first Oscilloscope/DMM.As soon it arrives, I would test it at my best, and every one is welcome to ask questions up-front,so to create my to-do list.Because of this new to me situation, like testing the oscilloscope part, many home boys of my,are willing to help me out with advices , or even by offering to me for the testing period, equipment like professional signal generators,and anything that I will possibly need.I feel all ready like the Leonidas with the 300 in his side

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 04:11:41 am
content: Dear Kiriakos:--Congratulations on your latest success in getting the O'scope/DMM for review. You are building a substantial body of honest work in these pages. Also I am sure that everyone (make that nearly everyone) really appreciates your going to the trouble of posting so many pictures in your threads. I particularly like it when you rescue old classic instruments and bring them back up to snuff.--I have devised a scoring system for how interesting and valuable your posts are. What I do is to count the negative, profane, and hateful comments by Frick, Frack, and their latest acolyte at the Trollhouse Dojo; Fudd. I score this thread a Four, so far.--Frick is using his usual disgusting profane spittle flecked gibbering hatred, rather than posting anything useful to anyone; the better to tart up his erstwhile game of watch pocket snooker, no doubt.--Frack has had several people disagree with him in this thread; more fodder for his ever burgeoning "ignore list". Indeed it is pequliar; he never really ignores anyone on his ignore list, and pops in with irrational disjointed nonsequitur when ever they are mentioned, and begs and pleads for everyone else to put the myriad offenders on their ignore lists.--And lastly the redoubtable Fudd has rung in again, this this time with weally weally large printing fonts, to show that he is weally weally angwee. Last time out he managed to achieve something even Frick himself has not been able to achieve; he got some of his scabrous evacuations zapped by the instrumentality. Now, with the gigantic fonts, feh.--Indeed, these fellows seem to always be reacting rather than acting, no?--Oh Waiter! Please get each of these gentlemen  a rolling donut, and put it on my bill."I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled."P. G. Wodehouse 1881 1975Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 04:12:15 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on November 08, 2011, 09:13:30 pmPosting 3300+ post with about 80 useful ones is not an easy job! Good thing they are done and done withthistho.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 05:01:02 am
content: Dear Wartex:--Thanks for the interesting post. It must have been a lot of work to peruse 3000 plus posts. Thanks for the Wiki link, it is good to now something of your interests. Also, thanks for the spam link to the Drywaller's Blog.--Oh, Waiter! Another rolling donut for short eyes here."He was born ignorant, and has been losing ground ever since."Fred Allen 1894 1956Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 05:45:50 am
content: Quote from: Wartex on November 20, 2011, 04:12:15 amNot everyone will like everyone but are baseless crude personal attacks necessary?Just saying, if you're going to attack the guy, attack his posts directly by quoting him and pointing out what's wrong with his ideas, no need for those kinds of posts IMO.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 05:51:32 am
content: Quote from: Armin_Balija on November 20, 2011, 05:45:50 amA lot more necessary than reams of pointless postal updates and misguided self promotion!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 06:27:49 am
content: if someone has to learn how to "ignore thread" feature in SMF, give me a call... 1-800-PORN-HOTLINE.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 07:59:35 am
content: Quote from: SgtRock on November 20, 2011, 04:11:41 amAll true , but the discovery of new things, Its an sweet adventure too.And ultra educational.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 03:32:38 pm
content: According toEEVblog #15 Part 1 & 2 - Fluke 189_289videos,It looks that there is some important details that they must see the light.My own first reaction about CEM high-end models that looks similar to some known Fluke models was that CEM is the one who started to make Fluke clones, and according to what Dave Jones says by looking the service manual of the specific 189II/ 289 models, they do not use any proprietary chipsets of Fluke.Those Fluke units use parts from LINEAR Technologies and from Analogue Devices, and the converter is the LTC2410.LINEAR Technologies are also the maker of my own reference DC source of 10V.And the point is that now that I am aware of this information’s, the first impression about the cloning story does not stand any more.Any one is free to buy parts of the shelf and do what ever he likes.He could be an individual or a company, what difference it makes?As a positive thinking technician and end-user, I wish good luck to CEM, about completing their latest high-end multimeters.Some extra competition in the market always helps pricing to possibly drop, and even better products to show up.Not to say that some extra competition will possibly drop further even the pricing of the Fluke forms software.Unfortunately, CEM does not monitor this thread, I never told them to join at EEV, but even so, this new technical information will help out local community, to form a wider view about the product offerings.I was actually one of the first victims, who had step-on on this banana leaf and fall, from now and on I would be even more cautious.I like to believe that in three weeks the most (from today 22 November) I will have my tracking code, and everything will move as planned.The Balkan seller who expects stock for this device, had updated his web page with a new date, like January 22 2012.

author: agmbass
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 10:15:03 pm
content: Hi allHappy New Year !!!Any news about the CEM DT-9989 ?They selling that for about 400 eurosI cannot find any review yet ....