Sodium Ion Battery evaluation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 05:59:05 pm
content: I'd like to start a thread here for those informed and interested parties who may be looking at/working on this emergent technology.I won't labour the point about the potential pros and cons here as google provides ample (mostly outrageous hype) on the subject.These 18650 Lion look-alike cells have become available to home-shedders on AliXHere is a User test vid from a respected sourceto wet your whistle.I am setting up my test bench and kit to subject these cells to performance testing and hope to present results hereAnyone else wish to join in and collaborateNotice a lot of naysayers pooh pooh yada yada 4x price, half capacity, 2x weight yet BYD (one of the largest EV auto makers) has already brought a car to market AWS.What I like@120Wh/kg (could be 200) its 1/4 weight of a LABSodium Ion green plentiful chemistrySIBs much safer, no thermal runaway, no noxious chemicals releasedCurrent price of 100Ah 24v same as LAB but half size 1/4 weight 20kg vs 80kgup to 3000 cycles (claimed) vs 500 cycles LABNo complex BMS neededStraight discharge curve 4-2v = 100-0% SOC easy to determine as a fuel tank gaugeOperates down to -40C (Lion 0C warning battery must be self heated)Steel casing - very robust - no swellingIf it seems too good to be true - then more work neededOBTW Faradian - a British frontline developer has just been bought out by Reliance India - a huge corporate with deep pockets - could give PRC Hina serious competition.You can be sure you wont win if you dont place a betRobin - Players please

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 06:49:08 pm
content: Kind of Bizarre that these are being sold through normal channels with the true manufacturer hidden (Hakadi obviously isn't). Sodium Ion chemistries even from Chinese and Indian manufacturers seem quite diverse, would be interesting to know where these are really from.The massive increase of energy density compared to Aquion is impressive, but I'm still not optimistic about the chances of this for now. When net zero gets closer and fast charging stations start becoming impossible to operate without their own storage, that's when sodium ion will shine IMO.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 07:22:48 pm
content: Hmm care to share what you have found?AliX is always a risk and often impossible to get a refund for fake goodsHavent seen SIBs on Ebay yet?Often these factories dump their rejects out the back door to sell to us suckers out west. Used Lions re wrapped is a common fake for cheapo goods (some have been filled with sandBut a week is a long time in the Battery business

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 08:03:01 pm
content: One thing to bear in mind is that 120 Wh/kg is 432 kJ/kg. For comparison, the specific energy of gunpowder is about 3000 kJ/kg. So you can imagine, batteries with high energy density have the potential to be dangerous. The danger depends on how fast the energy can escape. For high power batteries the energy is designed to escape fast, so an accidental short can certainly produce heat and fire.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 08:38:32 pm
content: The arc flash from sc fault can produce vapourised copper spatter that can blind you. UV Goggles must always be worn. Joe public doesnt realise thisThink stick welder arc x 1000

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 08:55:24 pm
content: The discharge curve does suggest they are just rebadged low capacity lithium ion. How about gingerly cutting off the blue exterior?

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 09:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 07, 2023, 08:55:24 pmSame, was thinking that the curve looks like Li+

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 05:08:54 am
content: Quote from: deepfryed on November 07, 2023, 09:24:14 pmI dont understand Marco, the vid link I posted first from Julian showed a Hikada battery under discharge with a steep curve from ca 4V to <2V. Thats a Sodium curve isnt it?whats this other curve you are referring too as a fake

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 06:22:20 am
content: Yes, I would strongly suspect these are not sodium-ion by any means. But happy to be wrong.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 06:43:36 am
content: Agreed, 99% likely some failed crap factory reject li-ion cells which are just so poor quality that energy density sucks because of that. This also makes them pretty dangerous.If you want to play around with an experimental battery chemistry, you won't get it from Ali/Ebay for cheap.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 11:56:22 am
content: agreed, playing around with crap Lithium cells and treating to a Sodium regime is sure asking for serious bad trouble. In the days of widespread fake Nimh cells, the rewrapping of used underweight cells was very convincing. It got Enaloop very worried how the counterfeits were badly damaging its reputation.So Guys exposed the fraudsters, name and shame

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 12:05:06 pm
content: There was a recent YT video where a reviewer purchased what was supposed to be a graphene super capacitor with extraordinary capacity, when the reviewer opened it up it was just a rebranded Li battery.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 11:56:58 pm
content: 4V -> 2V discharge curve is actually a bit of a pain.It would mean for many mobility applications the discharge current doubles at low SoC. You would see many EVs having a significant ramp off in output power as the battery runs low. Current Li-Ion in EVs generally only drops from ~4V to ~3.3-3.5V. Discharge current at low SoC is only limited when the cells get close to the BMS's cut off voltage under discharge (cell voltage under acceleration does not want to go below ~3V). This is somewhat impacted by temperature, with cold temperatures implying a lower cut off. My ID.3 in 5C ambient has a 60% discharge limit at less than 10% SoC.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 12:05:30 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 08, 2023, 06:43:36 am1500mAh is a standard for low capacity high discharge rate 18650, doesn't need to be a reject.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 12:11:03 am
content: The discharge curve with a kink around 2.3V is not like any lithum ion cell I've seen before. Most lithium ion cells will fall like a rock once they get below 2.8-2.9V. I want to believe these are genuine. If they're not lithium ion they might be repackaged LFP but those tend to have a very flat discharge curve in the middle of the discharge (even flatter than conventional li-ion). Very odd!

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 08:52:31 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 08, 2023, 11:56:58 pmGood point, EV owners north of the Watford Gap are well aware of inclement weather heh hehBut as an appeal for some sanity in this rush for EVs (remember how the morally bankrupt gov went ape persuading us to go over to diesel some 10 years ago - what a disaster that was for owners. The Power Industry at the same time warned that our generating capacity and distribution systems were woefully inadequate to supply future projected uk wide demands - notice how these cries have gone very quiet - cos the gravy train of urgent gov support and subsidies for mega infra structure up grades is rapidly approaching - loads a money guys keep shtumb.But what I really want to emphasis is that the ultrahype of EV performance, unimaginable acceleration 0-60's <3s - an inheritance from Fat Guts Clarky petrol heads obsessions, needs a proper rethink.As a young apprentice, I was able to afford to buy a preware 1935 Austin 7, flat head 750cc, 20 bhp, 3 gears 45mph AND 45mpg !!! yes amazing. It weighed <500kg.If you make a wish list of fit for purpose attribute for a personal conveyance and compare it with modern requirements for a city, shopping car, then its embarrassing at our profligate use of materials and demand for performance (1000bhpacceleration) EVs weigh 1500kgs, use lots of battery to heat occupants in cold weather and keep windows defrosted etc and headlights blazing in the winter gloom. All a big concern for very limited energy capacity storage vs ICE gas guzzlers, How does it feel in the snowy season - bit perilous stuck in a snow drift? Electrically heated 60W blanket for survival?Well enough naysaying , here's a bright spark to amuse and laugh at. Browse over to the Citroen Ami E and looks at its marvellous deisgn concept - evey bit as brilliant as their original 2CV (for French peasants in 1935)https://www.citroen.co.uk/amiI am the EV Anti-ChristLet the schwepps rain down on me from a dizzy heightBTW I parlayed with the little Macaroon to prevail upon Citroen to let the AMI have a User removeable battery system (sort of caddy on wheels?)so that you replace them with a fully charged packed (2x 24v 200Ah ca 15kg each) either at home or your local filling station - hence solving the problem of charging a city car in the city

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 09:00:10 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 08, 2023, 06:22:20 amMy thoughts exactly.Seems more likely someone is rebranding Lion cells as Sodium Ion to get people excided and cause a rush in orders, rather than them actually being new sodium ion cells with those specs.But yeah, i would also be very happy to be wrong.Usually when new battery tech actually goes into production they have big customers lining up to order their entire production capacity and they don't find their way onto the open market for a while.That being said, its possible these are pre-production/test-runs of sodium ion cells. Factory trash loves to find its way onto aliexpress.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 04:03:08 pm
content: Isnt it remarkably suspicious that not a single SIB is offered on Fleabay? That platform is buyer centric and its way too easy to get your money back on blatant fraud and couterfeit. No problemAliX you can whistle for a refund, or go through your credit card procedure - very hard work and it reflects on your rating BTW

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 05:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: robint on November 09, 2023, 08:52:31 amThe original 1935 2CV could best 28mph and carry four people, so doesn't seem that brilliant tbh. It's a less useful version of a Smart ForTwo EV, for city use only.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 05:34:23 pm
content: Must be why theysold over a millionbefore finally closing the plant down july 1990 after 41 years with only cosmetic changes. 2V 600cc did 55mph eventually gave >60mpg. Designed to travel over a ploughed field without breaking a tray of eggs. BTW average speed in London is 16mph. And Wales only allows 20mph - you are just not paying attention

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 08:27:03 pm
content: Quote from: robint on November 09, 2023, 05:34:23 pmThe 2CV6 had a 602 cc air cooled twin and could reach 69 mph. It was really fun to drive (I used to own one).

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2023, 11:55:10 pm
content: Wow that was a souped up fuel injected NOX one then.Glad someone else appreciates the engineering excellence of the Tin Snail.And now I want to see the AMI e hacked and upgraded - its already been done by Citroen but they are a bit secretive about it - doubled the battery size - maybe gone from 48v to 60v. Now that would be a mover around town and maybe 80mile range vs 40. Just wait till next spring.Here comes my PimpAmie suitably wrapped

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 11:55:17 pm
content: The nail test on a purportedly Sodium Ion battery, please excuse the bad language:

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 10:06:21 pm
content: Quote from: robint on November 09, 2023, 05:34:23 pmYou seem to be reinforcing my point, the 2CV is vastly superior to the Citroen Ami toy car. No one with their mental faculties in working order would choose to live in London either.

author: Craig
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 01:16:59 am
content: I don't know if theHAKADIBrand is a no-name. It would appear Hakadi is the brand name ofSelian Energy(Shenzhen Zhonghuajia Technology Co. Ltd.)I have requested a datasheet from them for the 18650, 1500mAh cell:18650E-1500I see Selian Energy has just sent some larger SIB format cells to Julian Ilett:(Posted yesterday on YouTube)

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 10:45:51 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 07, 2023, 06:49:08 pmAnd whether they really are Na-ion batteries or just rebadged Li-ion laptop pulls. If it's Aliexpress I'd expect the latter, I guess you can use them to power your $14.95 128TB SSDs.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 08:16:17 am
content: Be interested to see someone taking one apart and doing some chemical tests to confirm lithium or sodium

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 06:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 11, 2023, 08:16:17 amA simple test would be the weight of the cell. Sodium is over 3x heavier than lithium, so when comparing two cells of similar capacity, I would expect the sodium ion cell to weigh more.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 06:54:52 pm
content: there's only a microscopic amount of alkali metal in these batteries, obtw I see Libs use an Aluminium can vs Lipofe use a steel can

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 07:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: robint on December 11, 2023, 06:54:52 pmThe size of microscope you need depends on how good your eyesight isA 2600 mAh lithium ion cell would contain about 0.7 g of lithium. The same capacity sodium ion cell would contain about 2.3 g of sodium.Granted, a difference of 1.6 g in a cell weighing about 45 g is not going to be very easy to spot against statistical variation between different lithium cells, but we can at least say that a cell that is lighter than average is unlikely to be a sodium ion cell.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 10:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on December 11, 2023, 09:47:33 pmI wouldn't. Which is why I said I wouldn't in the post above.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 10:48:01 pm
content: Ladies behave, we seek to add to our fund of knowledge not watch cat fights

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 10:49:01 pm
content: Someone send one to Nilered to check

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 10:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 11, 2023, 10:49:01 pmIf you are prepared to destroy a cell or two, it is possibly not that hard to check. Lithium shows a characteristic crimson-red color in a flame test, while sodium has the unmistakable orange color of low pressure sodium lamps.So if you hold a small piece of battery electrode material in a gas flame and you see a strong orange color, then it is probably sodium. But if instead you see a bright red color, then it is lithium. I don't know if lithium and sodium may be mixed in the same cell, but the sodium color is so strong it hides other colors. So if you see orange, there is sodium.(It goes without saying, if you do dismantle a cell, make sure it is thoroughly discharged first, otherwise you may get a very different kind of flame.)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 01:18:49 am
content: Yes, and obviously the base thing to look at is the BMS (if there's any inside the cells, which I rather hope there would). Should give you a pointer or two as well...Speaking of which, I'm not completely discarding the idea that they may have put a BMS (if again there is any) in there that is modified to make the cell, from the user's POV, look like something else than Li-ion, while in fact it would just be Li-ion.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 01:20:42 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 11, 2023, 07:22:55 pmIn theory the way to do it would be to weigh (say) ten cells of each type, which would both magnify the difference in weight and smooth out any slight irregularities. However I'm still not sure whether this would be valid, you'd then also need to weigh batches of ten Li-Ion cells from different manufacturers to make sure the intra-cell-type variations don't outweigh the inter-cell-type variations.

author: Craig
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 09:59:43 am
content: I've obtained a couple of the 18650-1500mAh cells from Hakadi.This is a discharge test. It appears to correspond to the datasheet.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 10:06:41 am
content: many thanx, can you provide a charge test at say 1CIMHO that looks like a very distinctive curve and easy to determine the DOD (4V to 2.5V) unlike the Lifepo which is substantially flat and needs a very accurate coulomb counter - big disadvantage.Impressive, pls keep us informed of progressRobin

author: ROFLhoff
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 03:10:42 am
content: I've bought some SIB as well back in November. Took about 2 weeks to get to the states.I used this vendor on Alibaba and bought several of their "1300mAh" 18650 cells, and "10Ah" 33140 cells.https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/18650-sodium-ion-battery-3-1V_1600389785267.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.6.7c0244c37lsHxYhttps://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Sib-32140-sodium-ion-battery-3V_1600860472916.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.13.7c0244c3wfDeR3I used an Atorch DL24 tester to characterize the 18650 cells. I made a custom charging board in the past (project linked on my hackaday.io account) and used it for the 18650 cells. I will seek out a better charger for the larger cells since I do want to perform 1C charging and characterizing.As noted in my images, I am charging these cells at 1C (1300mA), using 0.1C (but more like 146mA in practice) as my cutoff, and discharging at 1C (1300mA) until 600mV.This is some of the data I've gathered so far:Note: Horizontal Axis is in Ah, not mAhThis graph is useful for people that want to roughly gauge how a cell would perform if charged to a lower voltage.I'm curious about the upper plateau on the 4.2V and 4.3V charges. I imagine an unwanted secondary chemical reaction is happening inside the cell. It's neat to see this large increase in capacity but I do not have the equipment to run hundreds of tests quickly to measure cycle life loss at these higher voltages.The change in slope below 800mV is due to the design of the DL24. The discharge path contains a set of series-connected power diodes and they limit the current flow at lower voltages. If I short them out, then I imagine the discharger could bring the cells to effectively ground but I would lose the reverse insertion polarity protection.Note: Horizontal Axis is in Ah, not mAhMy setup for testing cold temps is a spare minifridge. It gets down to -1°C in the main compartment, and down to -10°C in the icebox. My battery holder rests on the floors of this fridge, so there isn't a means to keep the cells from warming up in my setup.Note: Horizontal Axis is in Ah, not mAhOne thing I've noticed in these tests is that the cells do warm up when discharged at higher currents. Like, they rise 30°C from start to finish. This may explain the voltage rise in the 3C and 5C tests. If I could measure the energy going into the cells while charging, I could estimate coulombic efficiency. While charging at room temp, the cells barely rise in temp at 1C charge rate.Also for the people doubting if they suspect receiving worn down lithium cells, do note that a proper SIB will not use a copper current collector for the anode. If you open a cell up and only see aluminium foil current collectors, you can be assured that you didn't receive a lithium cell. There is no need to determine if the electrolyte contains lithium salts.I hope this information is helpful.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 04:36:16 am
content: WOW @ROFLhoff That is amazing semi-pro test results. Its quite rare to get such quality and attention to technical integrity.Indeed that is very curious charging to 4.2, 4.3 V produces nearly 20% increase in capacity - but at what penalty (life span?)Be interesting to see what your equivalent Charging curves reveal. Much emphasis is placed on fast charging (for EV needs) - not my area of interest as a Solarist.Lifepo's are already blowing away Lipos on safety and life span grounds as they become competitive. As production lines get switched over to SiBs then their prices should tumble. Could well happen within a year?I wonder if SiBs will have more reasonable cell voltage characteristics when connected in series chains (given all the complexity with cell monitoring and balancing needed for Lipos).Current Wh/kg is only ca 50% of Lipos but BYD claims to be putting them in one of their models. Imagine an EV where the batteries last 20 years. EV's are already shown as needing far less regular maintenance (except tyres/brakes) - whats left to go wrong (assuming plastic components are properly made) - New driver seat after 500,000 milesPlease keep up the excellent work and keep us informed - IMHO this is groundbreakingRobin

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 04:38:40 am
content: this reply is cos the board doesnt yet recognise your new handle and you may not get notified yet

author: ROFLhoff
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 05:25:11 am
content: Thank you for the kind words @robint !I am developing a BMS for future batteries based on the ISL94202. The arbitrary control on balancing voltages and FET controlling are nice. A shame the cells are so cheap and the controlling ICs are not!

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 06:01:22 am
content: Hmm I see the development kit is £540 - ouch but the ic is £5 - but I cant handle those flow solder pieces, not geared for it and looks so easy to screw up with my eyesightpsIve followed your lead and ordered 8 x 18650s SiBsbe glad to exchange test results by PM if you wish

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 02:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: ROFLhoff on December 20, 2023, 03:10:42 amVery nice info indeed. They don't look like Li-Ion cells at all.Did you measure the ERS and the short circuit current of the cells?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 02:39:05 pm
content: What's the charging curve?The difference between the two, is a hysteresis loop, the area of which is lost energy -- thus we can calculate total efficiency. How it varies with dis/charge rate (internal resistance vs. electrode overpotential) will be interesting to see.Tim

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2023, 08:40:47 pm
content: Quote from: robint on November 07, 2023, 05:59:05 pmWhat is the LAB type cell talked about in the first post?Google failed me trying to figured it out and even chatGPT has no idea.Lithium Air Battery maybe?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2023, 10:42:05 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 27, 2023, 08:40:47 pmLead acid battery?

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 01:42:39 am
content: Quote from: Craig on December 19, 2023, 09:59:43 amI bought these batteries and I'm looking for a datasheetI am particularly interested in their resistance to higher temperatures and the risk of spontaneous combustion in the event of overcharging, because I would like to use them as an energy buffer to power directly the AVR controller, charged with very small a few mA currents directly from the 230VAC mains socket without a transformer using 3.9Vz Zener 1N4007 1000V diodes and a few resistors

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 02:06:24 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 27, 2023, 10:42:05 pmweird, i've only ever heard them called SLA AGM or GEL. never LAB.

author: Craig
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 01:50:55 am
content: Quote from: eneuro on December 28, 2023, 01:42:39 amThe datasheet should be attached toreply 14.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 02:02:10 am
content: The discharge curve is really quite different to a normal LIB (stolen from BatteryU).There is no real cliff edge like LIBs... the battery seems to run almost all the way down to zero volts.What little I did read about SIBs suggested that they are tolerant of being fully discharged whereas LIBs will typically experience damage when cell voltage falls below 2.5V or so, and minimum discharge at low temperatures (below -10C) should be limited to around 3V/cell. The info I found said that SIBs may even be shipped completely discharged as it makes them safer to ship that way.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 02:36:04 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 29, 2023, 02:02:10 amI also heard that Na-ion can be transported completely discharged, but maybe it depends on the specific battery model because their production and chemical composition do not have to be identical?I'm currently looking at the datasheet of the Na-ion batteries I ordered and with the help of uncle Google I managed to translate from Chinese to English something like this:QuoteJust quickly reviewing this PDF for the Na-ion battery model: 18650E-1500 I don't see under what conditions it could be discharged and stored at three voltages of 0V

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 03:03:53 am
content: Probably just a translation thing, if you discharge to 1.5V the amount of energy left is practically nothing anyway. And you might consider that as 'completely discharged'

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2024, 04:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 29, 2023, 03:03:53 amI do not intend to discharge below 2.7V because the ATMEL MPU (Attiny85) is to be powered directly from this battery with BOD enabled.HAKADI Na-ion 18650 1500mAh 3V were delivered by post at a voltage of ~2.55V

author: CobraScout
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 12:00:48 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 29, 2023, 02:02:10 amFor sure, sodium ion battery is much safer than LIBs, see our sodium battery puncture test, no fire, no explosion...

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2024, 09:16:16 pm
content: Quote from: moffy on November 13, 2023, 11:55:17 pmStupid tests.

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2024, 05:48:14 pm
content: I had disappointing results with my Hikadi Sibs 18650 1500mAh, I only got 1100MAh after 6 disch chg cycles at 1C. Not exactly exciting performance, but maybe others will come forward with their tests - BTW I used a ZKE AP20 tester - love it.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 12:49:46 am
content: Quote from: mikerj on November 14, 2023, 10:06:21 pmIt seems that Na-ion batteries are actually used in electric cars and this is one of the reasons why I did not buy in Europe a used Dacia Spring 2021 electric car based on probably Li-ion 28kWh batteries, seeing that cars appeared on the market with Sodium-ion batteries at similar price $15k and range Sodium-ion JAC Sodium ion Battery CAR: How Does The Sodium-Ion Battery Works:

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 07:53:47 pm
content: Hmm that Vid smells of way too much Uber Hype, wait till next year. SiBs just dont have the energy density yet to compete (ie <25% of Lions). Lifepo looks promising, getting cheaper AWS.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 10:49:05 pm
content: Quote from: robint on February 24, 2024, 07:53:47 pmNope, Nonsense, Li-ion batteries are flammable while Na-ion does not and this is one of the main reasons why I bought Na-ion batteries for testing, because they will be charged directly from the 230VAC 50Hz at home socket.Lithium is a hard-to-find metal on Earth and Na-ion batteries are the killer of Chinese Li-ion batteries, so it is not surprising that there will be AI-generated comments suggesting the advantage of Li-ion-based batteries in EV compared to Na-ion, but it is obvious that the future of EV is Na-ion, and Li-ion batteries will be used in devices as before, where a greater concentration of energy is needed, but the energy stored in the small Li-ion battery packs is much smaller, which eliminates the risk of very difficult to extinguish fires caused by the failure of Ev where batteries are based on Lithium and have capacity >28kWh.YT: Lithium-ion battery fires are on the rise. Are firefighters ready?

author: robint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2024, 06:03:19 pm
content: I do hope we can get some up to date informed opinion on this board. Re-hashing very old 2017 news is hardly helpful

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 04:23:15 pm
content: Quote from: robint on February 29, 2024, 06:03:19 pmSo far this year, the FDNY says 66 fires have been started by lithium-ion batteries, killing five people. Last year, the city saw 216 fires and six deaths related to the batterieshttps://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/special-reports/e-bike-battery-fires"Published June 5, 20232023 deaths have already surpassed last year's.NEW YORK (BRAIN) — More people in New York City have died so far this year because of lithium-ion battery fires than all of last year, according to recently released Fire Department of New York statistics.Entering June, according to FDNY data, there were nine deaths, and 64 injuries attributed to fires sparked by lithium-ion batteries. So far, 65 structural and 32 non-structural fires and 97 investigations into lithium-ion battery fires have occurred."so it looks like things really took off in 2023. this year statistically NYC will have around 20 deaths if the trend continues.