Scope for beginner. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Hotspur
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 01:57:09 pm
content: Greetings,In my previous life I was for many years a sea-going engineer officer. I was often resposible for all the ships electrical equipment, but nothing electronic.I would like some advice on purchasing an oscilloscope please.I am interested in electronics in general, at beginner level, have been dabling with Arduino and Raspbery pi for a few months. I like the idea of being able to actually view what is going on in a circuit.Recently I celebrated my 82 birthday and have decided to treat myself to a cheap scope. I have no illusions about designing anything, it will just be used as a learning tool. Being optimistic, a couple of years use would be all I expect of the scope, and of meThis will be my first scope and most probably my last. I have no real idea what I will use it for I am just indulging myself, and making my birthday an excuse to aquire a sexy tool. I have watched numerous videos (including Dave's classic - How NOT To Blow Up Your Oscilloscope!) on u-tube and I feel fairly confident I will not blow-up the scope,or myself. The grey matter still appears to be functioning fairly well, but I am acutely aware this is not the ideal time in my life cycle to be attempting to learn new tricks. At the moment I am having fun with my new hobby.I have considered the following:Hantek DSO4102CRigol DS1052ESiglent SDS1102CMLOWON SDS7102VI do not wish to spend too much money, my adventure into electronics may be abruptly terminated.Any, and all advice very welcomeRegards

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 02:19:26 pm
content: HiThere are a few zillion threads digging into this same topic running around here. The quick summary:Rigol DS1054Z is the winner. It's the newer / more up to date version of the 1052.That said, in some areas a used scope might be the better / low cost alternative. In other regions, used gear simply is not an option.Bob

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 02:24:28 pm
content: I have a used Tek and will be buying the Rigol 1054Z. As a fellow beginner, I wouldn't bother with a used scope if you can swing the $400 or so for the 1054Z. Get a new digital scope and you won't spend time figuring out whether you don't know what you're doing (like I often find is the case for me) or whether something is wrong with your used scope.Good on you for picking up a new and fascinating hobby.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 03:19:59 pm
content: I just bought the Rigol DS1054Z and it is excellent. I still have a Tektronix 465 that I bought off of eBay about 12 years ago and before that I had a Heathkit scope that I assembled as a kit sometime in the mid '70s (I think). The Rigol is not my first rodeo!After hacking (threads elsewhere), you wind up with a very competent 100 MHz scope. There is an EEVblog video (or two or three) about this scope so you can get the straight dope right there. Four input channels are quite useful for digital circuits and, after hacking, the scope will decode I2C, SPI and UART serial streams. These features are built into the scope and unlocked for significant extra additional expense. The measurement features of the 1054 are really useful. Frequency counter, period measurements, rise and fall time measurements (if the scope isn't the limiting factor), all the stuff you want to know about a signal are available. This is a very nice scope!I am also a huge fan of the Analog Discovery from Digilent. It is a two channel USB based scope with a lot of extra features like two power supplies (mine are fixed at +5V and -5V, the new model has adjustable outputs), two arbitrary waveform generators, a 16 channel logic analyzer including serial decoding and so on. It is a nice electronics lab in a box as long as you can live within its capabilities. The scope is limited to +- 25V differential and 30 MHz. The logic signals are designed for 3.3V. Still, even with the restrictions, there's nothing quite like a 27" scope display!I tend to work at 5V and lower and most microcontrollers today are working at 3.3V. When used to decode I2C, the frequency is usually less than 400 kHz while SPI might range up to a couple of MHz although it can run much faster. The Analog Discovery can handle this stuff pretty well. If you need to get to frequencies much over 10 MHz, it's not the right tool.If you are going to experiment with circuits, you will need some kind of function generator. The AD has two of them. Sine, square, triangle, ramp plus anything you can dream up in the 'arbitrary' mode. If you want to study filters or other networks, the AD will run the Bode' plot automatically. Frequency and phase response without all the number crunching!Check out the Resources Wiki linked on the page:http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/Best wishes for extending your hobby.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 04:53:30 pm
content: My first question would be: How good is your eyesight?If it is not 100 %, then I would recommend the OWON.Simply because the bigger display. Plus the option to connect a bigger TV/Monitor via VGA.(How useful is a scope if you can´t read the display?)Sure, the Rigol 1054z has funcy, advanced functionality and 4 channels. But it uses even adamn little font for the display.Another advantage (not only) for the OWON: It has separate vertical controls for each channel.The 1054 has one control for all 4 channels. Sometimes really fiddly for activating, startingmeasurements and deactivating of a specific channel.If it is 100% and you have no problem with the "fiddling", then I would recommend theRigol 1054z, too. Simply the best "bang per buck" and the most advanced functions.Plus: It´s a 4 channel scope.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 05:48:12 pm
content: HiSo why 4 channels rather than two?1) Because you can2) Because a lot of things are clock + data + strobe (or some combo like that)3) Because more information is generally a better thing.I use a headband magnifier for a number of things these days. I do not find the (occasionally used ) small font on the 1054 to be unreadable. It *is* small, but not crazy small. They pack a lot of information into some of those screens. They use a variety of font sizes depending on what the specific information is supposed to fit in wth.Bob

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 06:07:39 pm
content: My eyesight in on the far side of 70 but I don't have a problem with the Rigol screen when wearing my reading glasses. The Measure screen is a little crowded but it is certainly readable (to me). I really like all the features of a digital scope. This 1054Z is the first I have ever used and I'm liking it a lot. Having a frequency counter on the display is just plain handy. That it agrees exactly with my crystal generated frequencies is a plus! My old Tek 465 had none of these advanced features and, until I had them, I didn't know what I was missing.My decision to buy the 1054 was heavily influenced by Dave Jones's videos plus other comments on this forum. It is working perfectly. I, OTOH, need to get up to speed with the knobs and dials.-- among others...

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 07:31:21 pm
content: The DS1054Z is still the winner in the lowest price class.It will give you a lot of fun for the money.

author: mikeys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 08:48:45 pm
content: You could get a second hand analogue scope off of ebay if space isn't an issue. You should be able to get something decent for about £60, I've been watching a bunch on there recently and this seems a more accurate number than the oft-quoted $50. Avoid stuff that isn't listed as fully working.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:02:49 pm
content: +1 for the 1054zIf you want an entry level digital scope that's the winner by a long shot. the price/feature ratio is unbeatable and even with its flaws it beats all the competitors in the price range. forget about used older tek DSOs or most of the used lecroys DSOs you find, they are painfully slow to operate.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:19:02 pm
content: Welcome to the forum Hotspur.At 83 and starting this hobby.....wow.From your list the SDS1102CML is my biggest seller.Basic and reliable it is, easy to use (individual channel controls) and more than enough scope for the hobbyist or learner like yourself.Good luck with your new hobby and long may it engage you.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:52:19 pm
content: Quote from: mikeys on April 24, 2016, 08:48:45 pmCan we stop with this "get an analogue scope" nonsense already? The OP said he's been exploring digital tech - mentioned Raspberry Pi and Arduino. How's getting some crusty old CRO POS going to help him with that?

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 10:08:45 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on April 24, 2016, 09:52:19 pmHiUmmm ..... errr ... No. There are indeed some very good analog scopes out there that might do what he wants to do.We have yet to hear back from the OP. It is not in any way clear *what* his constraints are. To not present all the alternatives without some feedback is simply not right.Bob

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 12:22:03 am
content: From the list of scopes in post #1 it seems to me that the OP did some homework already and decided on a DSO:QuoteI would tend to agree with Zbig that an old analog CRO is not the best choice given what's been posted so far. Plus it is pretty hard to beat DS1054Z in terms of price/performance.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 12:40:45 am
content: Quote from: ade on April 25, 2016, 12:22:03 amHiThe one notable exception from the list is indeed the 1054Z. The only obvious reason to drop it and keep the 1052 is price. If this *is* an issue of "only so much to spend" then surplus gear (of any sort) is indeed an alternative. Without input from the OP, any guess about the constraints is just that ... a guess.Bob

author: joao
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:14:30 am
content: Hello!What about the BK Precision 2190D?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:17:22 am
content: Quote from: joao on April 25, 2016, 01:14:30 amRebadged Siglent SDS1000 series.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 02:08:28 am
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on April 25, 2016, 12:40:45 amThe 4 channel 1054 is $70 more than the 2 channel 1052.These digital scopes are pretty nice and they have a lot of features but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a used high end Tektronix <just about anything>. I will still use my Tek 465 to verify what I am seeing on the 1054. Mostly because the 465 is a 350 MHz scope and the 1054, before hacking, is just 50 MHz. Even hacked, it is only 100 MHz and we need to think about things like sampling. The 465 doesn't sample, it displays. Unfortunately, it doesn't store!I just saw a 465 on eBay, working, with the optional frequency counter and multimeter for $26.01 plus $80 shipping. Sure, it will go up before it closes but it would be a heck of a deal at $100.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 05:57:55 am
content: the 1054z is not only 70$ more for four channels instead of two.it also has a bigger, better screen, a shitton of memory and more advanced trigger capabilities when you learn to use themOld analog scopes can be better, like the 465 but it's not always the case... Again, i advise against all early used dsos you find in that price range. not only they are slow, they usually have a tiny amount of memory, so when you trigger you usually only have saved exactly what there is in the display... if you need to look at a long waveform you have to reduce the horizontal scale, losing details when you zoom in

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 06:26:10 am
content: Don't buy anything from Siglent if you are not sure you don't want to sell it on Ebay later...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-'wrongful-trademark-claim'/

author: mikeys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 07:53:35 am
content: Quote from: Zbig on April 24, 2016, 09:52:19 pmI was just responding to this statement, thought I could be helpful."Recently I celebrated my 82 birthday and have decided to treat myself to a cheap scope. I have no illusions about designing anything, it will just be used as a learning tool."Ebay ones are about 1/6th the price of a ds1054Z, so I thought they were worth mentioning. Apologies if I offended you, just trying to help OP. I wasn't aware they were unsuitable for using with an arduino or rpi, what's the reason for that? If the issue is the bandwidth, there's some decent 100MHZ ones going for about ~£120 on there, but not particularly often.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 08:20:04 am
content: Quote from: mikeys on April 25, 2016, 07:53:35 amI'm sorry, it was an example of a really poor style on my side. As I re-read it today it's obvious that you just wanted to help and I acted like a prick. One more reminder for me not to post when tired and annoyed or at least to take few deep breaths and wait five minutes before hitting "Post" in such cases.

author: Hotspur
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:15:35 am
content: I must say, I am overwhelmed by the feedback to a queston I am sure has been asked before. Many thanks to you all.From all the information gleaned I would really like to get the Rigol 1054z but I find it difficult to justify the cost. The cheapest I can find is £331.20. To buy that would entail telling fibs to the Old Dutch:)The 1054z appears to have everything, 4 channels, good screen resolution and a thumbs up by Dave. I also like the looks of the Siglent and have seen one for sale for £242. I think I can justify that to "er indoors".I think I will brood on the options for another couple of weeks, just to see in my premiums bonds are able to resolve my dilemma.The real problem is that I have never used a scope and not all that sure that I need one, the idea of messing about with a scope does appeal. I find electronics almost akin to magic and to be able to see a representation of these invisible signals I feel sure will greatly assist in understanding.Again many thanks for you feedback and advice.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:59:18 am
content: Quote from: Karel on April 25, 2016, 06:26:10 ambeating a dead horse here?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 07:07:56 pm
content: Hello Hotspur,If you're mainly interested in monitoring what the digital I/O pins of Arduino and Pi are doing, at least initially, then you could look at a cheap USB logic analyser. This is of course a digital-only device, but does have the advantage of being able to monitor 8 signals at once.It clearly doesn't replace a scope in being able to monitor analogue signals, but it would still compliment it in being able to do protocol decoding and long traces. An example is:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobby-Components-USB-24M-8CH-24MHz-Logic-Analyser-Test-Hook-Clips-/161309241759?var=&hash=item258ec7b19f:m:mFNflGSPKkU1xYLv248m4NwP.S. It would provide 'instant gratification' and be easy to slip past "er indoors" too.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 07:31:22 pm
content: We're both old enough that we can be honest. I see people posting here with these scopes and a problem. My first thought is why does this guy that has no idea what he is doing have a better scope than I do! It didn't make them any better in electronics. I have a 50 yer career in electronics and I can do anything I need without one. I was given a $70 USB scope by a customer and that project was canceled. I find it has amazing capability for the price. You get direct reading voltage, time and frequency with the ability to store an image. This assumes you have a spare laptop so you can program and scope at the same time. I really like the larger screen and that it is portable.Then you can use what you save to buy other equipment and some neat modules on ebay.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 07:45:44 pm
content: I wholeheartedly agree (not 50 years in the business a lot of the way towards it). There's no point it spending all your premium bond money now when something lesser and cheaper will fulfill your foreseeable needs and free up money for things to actually monitor!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 08:21:54 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 25, 2016, 07:07:56 pmWhat a dandy price! The shipping is nearly as much...Mostly I play with digital and I find a logic analyzer to be more useful than a scope or at least an old analog scope. The 1054Z has a great deal more capability. I'm not going to throw my scopes in the trash heap but if I were limited in budget and wanted to see digital kinds of signals from a Raspberry Pi (or similar), I would opt for a device like the above.At a minimum, it would get me started. I could fool around with servos and watch the pulse width change, I could capture and decode SPI, I2C and RS232, I could write a ton of Python code to make things happen in the real world and watch the inputs and outputs on the LA.For the little bit extra, I would think the test clips option would be a great way to go but given the fact that most boards have headers, they aren't nearly as useful as the female contacts. Maybe I would save the money.Given the cheap shipping to the US, I may just buy one so I can play with the software.ETA: I just ordered one to play with.

author: SewingYard
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 08:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: Hotspur on April 25, 2016, 11:15:35 amPersonally if I was your age and looking for a very basic scope to play with then I'd probably go with the DS1052E - I got my MSO1104Z-S from here, they seem like a decent outfit and I looked for days trying to find cheaper:https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DS1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-p/ds1052e.htmI'm very impressed with my Rigol scope, it was recommended in AoE, thats what made my mind up!

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 08:59:54 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 25, 2016, 08:21:54 pmThose things are all over Aliexpress with free shipping. Item 32626161819 or search for "USB Logic 8CH".I can't vouch for any particular seller, as I bought one but haven't had occasion to use it yet.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 02:17:58 am
content: Quote from: SewingYard on April 25, 2016, 08:37:26 pmThere's a reason I bought a 1054 and that is the fact the Raspberry PI kinds of signals, specifically SPI, need more than 2 channels. I already had a 2 channel scope; I wanted 4 channels!You want to sync on CS' going low and then capture MISO, MOSI and CLK. That takes 4 channels. I'll eventually hack the 1054 to get the 100 MHz but in the meantime, I can use all of the channels.It is almost inevitable that any expansion of the PI will involve SPI. For the $70 difference, I just can't get behind the 1052 over the 1054. But it's not my allowance!

author: Renegade
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 05:27:00 am
content: After doing my research, I went with the Rigol D1054Z. Just my 2 satoshis.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 07:58:12 am
content: Quote from: Renegade on April 26, 2016, 05:27:00 amIf you intend to do digital, if at all possible, also get yourself one of those inexpensive USB logic analyzers. I've got one, and compared with looking at a scope they are a godsend.... Got a once a second software glitch on a busy I2C bus? Nearly impossible to isolate on a cheap scope, piece of cake with one of these... Just capture 5 seconds worth, maybe also add a gpio pin or two as a reference signal and you will find it in a flash...

author: Karlo_Moharic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 08:14:10 am
content: I would recommend you thishttp://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1072CML.html, for price is better than the similar Rigol one , and it has a bigger screen.Which is something you might appreciate.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 08:14:25 am
content: Although the OP presents as a "beginner" in Electronics,this not his "first rodeo".If he decided to go for a second hand high spec analog 'scope,as a Marine Engineer with many years of experience,he would probably have a much less steep learning curve than many younger folk.Old style Marine Engineers are quite used to working things out from indirect indications,so he probably would not be worried about "counting squares" on a CRT rather than being "spoon fed" information via the multitude of readouts presented on a DSO.

author: Hotspur
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 09:24:45 am
content: You guys are certainly a source of good ideas. I am going to try a logical analyser, nothing to lose, everything to gain, as Gyro apply put it "It would provide instant gratification". This option would leave me with much dollar to spend on Ebay acquiring gadgets to analyse. Sounds good. I have also just watched Dave's EEVBLOG 704 (all 1hr 18m and 44 sec) and at best I only understood about 25%, I can envisage getting into all kinds of trouble with the 4 channel Rigol:) A case of running too early me thinks.I have just realised that OP does not mean old pensioner:)I know I'm old, but no need to rub it in:)As the "Bard" put it "Last scene of all,That ends this strange eventful history,Is second childishness and mere oblivion,Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."A lot of truth in second childhood, I would never have thought in my younger days that I would find so much enjoyment in playing with little flashing lights. That is really all I'm doing, not like you guys building and designing useful things.When, or if, I get more adventurous and (hopefully) knowledgeable, then I will get my oscilloscope. In the meantime I will continue to play happily and lurk the forums seeking inspiration, guidance and knowledge.Many thanks for imparting your expertise and your patience.

author: danadak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 11:12:43 am
content: The cheapo logic analyzers are like this on ebay -http://www.ebay.com/itm/24MHz-8-Channel-USB-Logic-Analyzer-8-CH-Logic-Analyzer-for-Arduino-MCU-/191685084604?hash=item2ca15245bc:g:KFYAAOSwyQtV1vOOsearch ebay, different versions come with / without grippers, etc..These all use the Saelae software, free for download.https://www.saleae.com/?gclid=CKOwgNKVrMwCFcUmhgod5PMBSANote they claim its good for 24 Mhz, my experience that's a tad aggressive in specsmanship.Regards, Dana.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 11:20:17 am
content: Quote from: Hotspur on April 26, 2016, 09:24:45 amYou certainly haven't lost the ability to wax lyrical I see.You have a PM by the way.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 02:52:16 pm
content: Quote from: Hotspur on April 26, 2016, 09:24:45 amI tend to learn things when the need arises. If you pick up one of the Raspberry PIs with the intent to add any external circuitry, even a blinking LED, just creating the project will increase your knowledge and, after you finish hanging on some kind of SPI gadget, you will suddenly realize that you now know enough to understand episode 704. This knowledge will just come from doing. And re-doing... And re-doing...It may seem like a giant leap but I really think there is a lot to learn by just running example programs on boards like the Arduino and Raspberry PI. In most cases, the code is given but probing the pins will provide a lot of insight.Personally, I think the Arduino is the better platform for beginners. You don't have to learn Linux just to blink an LED using Python. There is a ton of example code and the platform is well understood. Code will be written in C or C++. The IDE is crap but it grows on you. Just make sure your Arduino is of the 3.3V flavor, not 5V, just to protect the logic analyzer. I'm assuming the Hobby Components Logic Analyzer is rated for 3.3V inputs but I haven't researched it yet. I did order one. My Digilent Analog Discovery is rated for 3.3V but it has protection up to +-20V. Many such devices do a similar thing. They use series resistors and clampling diodes external to the counter logic.One thing about logic analyzers, they don't deal well with very slow signals. They simply run out of buffer memory before the transitions. It is common to blink an LED once per second. This may be hard to see on a logic analyzer. So, increase the speed by a factor of 1000 (to pick a number) when watching the pulse train on the logic analyzer. Where I really see the utility of the LA is when dealing with one of the serial streams: SPI, I2C or RS-232. The signals are fairly fast, they come in packets and we are interested in the contents.Nothing ever works right coming out of the gate and that's where the creative stuff starts. Instrumenting experiments to see why things don't work. It's no fun if everything works first try.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 04:39:14 pm
content: Thinking about the Arduino as a first choice, I got around to the idea of outputting an 8 bit counter to pins as an exercise for all 8 channels of a logic analyzer. Here is such a project:https://gist.github.com/adamatan/3188066Now here's where the fun starts... Notice that the pins are set on or off one at a time in the showBinNumber routine. This is a quirk of using the Arduino library functions but it will be interesting to watch the 8 bits change in sequence on a fast logic analyzer. Ordinarily, I would set up the project to use an 8 bit port (to avoid splitting the output over two ports) and write the entire byte all at once. Alas, that's not the Arduino way.To get the speed up high enough for the LA, consider changing or removing the delay(256-i). At a minimum, make the delay a constant value like delay(100) or whatever. The variable delay time just makes things messy. I would remove it. The Arduino isn't very fast and digitalWrite is fairly slow. Running full out, it won't tax the LA.There is a lot to learn in this little example and it gives a bit of practice using the LA. A perfect place to start.There's not too much happening in the world of logic chips (7400 series stuff) these days. Everything is done with a microcontroller or a CPLD/FPGA. So, when it comes to watching sequential kinds of signals with a LA, they will most often be coming from a very high level device. There's a lot less wire wrapping and a lot more typing.Before selecting an Arduino, we need to know if the LA will handle 5V signals. If not, a 3.3V Arduino must be selected. Here is a sample of the range of Arduino boards:https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=arduinoHere is an Arduino 'stamp' board that can be used with breadboards. It will need headers but those are cheap. It is powered by the USB connection so no external power supply is needed. There is a solder jumper that changes the board from 3.3V to 5V if that is desiredhttps://www.sparkfun.com/products/12587Stackable headers:https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=stackable+headerFigure out what you'll need because this little board doesn't have the standard Arduino layout.There is a process for adding all of the Sparkfun boards to the Arduino IDE and it is linked to the product page:https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/pro-micro--fio-v3-hookup-guide

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 09:09:00 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 26, 2016, 02:52:16 pmThat is true of the stand-alone Logic Analyzers, where the art was in being able to find the magic trigger that would give you the 8192 samples you wanted. You need to know what you were looking for before you could capture the unknown event you wanted to see (a bit of a chicken and egg problem!)The modern, inexpensive PC (<$10 on ebay) LAs are nothing more than an 8-bit digital input to USB bridge, which captures the inputs and ships them to the PC for analysis. Collecting 10s of seconds or longer is no problem. 8 channels at 24M samples/s for 10 seconds is about 256 MB of data sitting in RAM that you can sift through. As long as the event happened somewhere in there then you have got it, just keep looking & searching till you find it.

author: Hotspur
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 09:23:08 pm
content: QuoteThank you for the info, you have given me plenty to think about. I am sure you are right, the way to learn is by the hands-on approach. Reading and watching video are of course indispensable tools to assist the learning process, but are not a substitute for getting down to the nitty-gritty.During my sea-going career it was often necessary to enact ad-hoc and innovative solutions to various problems and I was always confident (maybe misplaced) that I would rise to, and find a solution to the challenge. But with electronics it is very different, what is happening in a circuit is rarely observable or self-evident. It is not always possible from observing the symptoms to correctly diagnose the real problem.I am finding it very challenging because I have to keep re-learning things, my short term memory is rather suspect. I can still recall engineering formula from 50 or 60 years ago but forget things about op-amps I did a couple of weeks ago, but such is life:)

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 10:05:01 pm
content: Just for giggles, I decided to try that counter program I linked above on an Arduino Mega. The board was chosen because it was the first one I found.At the same time, my new 27" monitor showed up so now I have a pair - one for the IDE, one for the logic analyzer. Alternately, one for the IDE and one for the reference manuals. In any event, I'm a happy camper!The results? Well, using my Digilent Analog Discovery over the 8 channels and setting 2 ms/div, with a trigger on bits 0..6 = 0 and falling edge of bit 7, I get a very nice graph with one full cycle of bit 7 plus a bit. Bit 0 is pretty small (horizontally) but that is to be expected; it is 1/128th of bit 7.Resetting the time base to 200 uS/div and taking another sample, the staircase effect of switching one bit at a time becomes apparent. It's important to take another sample rather than just expanding the scale because expanding the scale will make the edges look more sloped than they should.I look forward to seeing how the Hobby Components LA compares. It will be awhile due to international shipping. Slow boats...27" scopes and logic analyzers are good!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 10:31:07 pm
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on April 26, 2016, 09:09:00 pmYou are correct, I goofed... The Analog Discovery will happily sample at 500 HOURS/div down to 10 nS/div. But the sample memory isn't very deep on the AD. I am looking at 2000 samples at 100 kHz when set to 2 mS/div, 4000 samples when set for 10 nS/div. So, you can divide up those samples any way you want but that is all the samples there are. It does not sample at 50 MHz for 500 HOURS.Other LAs have a different setup where they stuff the data into the PC and on to the disk. They advertise up to 1 Terabyte of sample memory. Well, maybe, but it's going to depend on the USB bus shoveling the data. But with this arrangement, it is possible to look through a LOT of samples. It's my understanding that the Hobby Components LA uses this approach. It should be fun!Cool thing about FPGA projects is the ability to create a trigger wherever you want.