Clean Computer? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 10:46:13 am
content: Hi Guys,I’ve had what I think was a clean computer going for about five years.It was just to run a single IDE & compiler. It ran Windows 7, which was installed from CD,and never needed any updates to run the compiler that previously also ran happily with Win XP.So the computer never needed network device drivers, and never had any installed, and the whole time, was never connected to the internet, or any other network.The process served it’s purpose either way, in that I never lost data, and never had to install or run a virus checker.If that scenario is valid, is a similar scenario possible if Windows had to be updated, so an installation has been internet enabled to get the updates?

author: rfdes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 10:53:24 am
content: ... and your point would be?

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 10:54:24 am
content: Hi,My prediction, considering that the only installed programs installed were the ones from the updates, and there was no other internet usage, you would have a fairly clean system, at least regarding to virus. However, Windows Updates is known to screw up a system from time to time. Seen this happening several times on different PCs. Windows does corrupt its own files. So, in the end, I think sooner or later you would need to restore or reinstall the whole system.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 11:08:30 am
content: Software installation and removal in Windows is fundamentally broken. For example, when you install a non-trivial piece of software, it isn't known what modifications were made to the OS, and as a result, it isn't possible to completely revert those changes when removing that software. Also, if additional software was installed because those are required dependencies (.NET crap, Visual C/C++ redistributable, XML and many others), uninstalling the software will not uninstall those dependencies, and you end up with lots of leftover packages, without any idea which one was installed, and why it was installed.In contrast, under linux distributions that use binary packages, the package manager can tell you at any time what changes were made to the system, and an uninstall will undo those changes. With some package managers, even dependencies that were brought in as a result of that software's installation are removed.So in short, with Windows, if you install software regularly, the OS will incrementally break itself, until it gets to a point where a format and clean OS install is required.

author: bob225
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 11:31:32 am
content: Its totally feasible to have a offline machine the weak point is its users, Installing software on the machine via usb or by other means the only way to stop that is to disable/lock the usb ports and or any media deviceslike anything that is man made it can circumvented, back in the early 2000's the kids on the school network worked out they could use word macros to launch embedded programs and how to pull up the network chat

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 11:57:26 am
content: Quote from: @rt on September 06, 2018, 10:46:13 amRule #1: If you want a stable system, do not update anything.Rule #2: Use your brains and don't rely on snake oil

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 12:24:52 pm
content: Quote from: taydin on September 06, 2018, 11:08:30 amOh dear Linux God. I install a software on Linux, all works, then install another software, and the first software stopped working. The second software quietly replaced some files with newer versions the first software could not use. Yes tell me about Linux correctly managing installation packages and compatibility.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 01:07:21 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on September 06, 2018, 12:24:52 pmI've not had that problem under Linux myself.Windows however is a nightmare. Install some software, then is stops working after a Windows update. The worst thing to happen was Windows deciding to uninstall some software for me, without my permission.This short of crap is why I've not used Windows on my PC for a couple of years now. Unfortunately I still have to use it at work and help fix problems on my dad's PC.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 08:26:08 pm
content: Ever used USB (stick)? Basically, infection wise, your screwed.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 10:16:37 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on September 06, 2018, 12:24:52 pmNever had any issues in the long 5, maybe 6 years I have Linux. I only had to reinstall once, when I changed the hardware from 32bit to 64bit. Never had any major issues since Kubuntu 12.04 LTS. On the other hand, before that, had to reinstall XP twice in the previous three years. Also, had many numerous problems with Windows 7, 8 and 10 in my workplace due to broken updates from Microsoft.Quote from: onesixright on September 06, 2018, 08:26:08 pmYou should read the OP carefully. That was not the point. The assumption here is that the computer has no contact with the outside world except via the internet. But of course you will always infect an unprotected computer with an infected flash drive. That is a given.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2018, 10:44:43 pm
content: Quote from: @rt on September 06, 2018, 10:46:13 amOut of interest - what are you doing on this isolate-dedicated machine if everything remains there and you do not need transfer out?Quote from: @rt on September 06, 2018, 10:46:13 amPersonally, I have more than a few "clean" computers called VM's, easy to use and actually very unlikely to loose data (compare to bare metals) due to simplicity of backups, but still connected to external world when required (repos/shares/https etc.)

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 01:45:07 am
content: Hi, I have different reasons now, which is why this computer is referred to in the past tense.It was Win 7, MPLAB IDE (an old version prior to MPLAB-X), and a compiler called PicBASIC Pro, which will probably never be updated again.The flow of data was one way out of the computer by means of programming the micros with the same computer.Now I’m talking about that, and a couple more IDEs that do require updates to run, and those would typically be downloaded from the internet.For argument sake, I’ll say I trust those sources, and won’t need to update again until something drastic such as depreciated calls happen or such.I don’t really know what can be caused by the people that start attacking you as soon as a PC connects to the internet.

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 02:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: @rt on September 07, 2018, 01:45:07 amYou just have to go through seven proxies when using Windows.Quote from: Bud on September 06, 2018, 12:24:52 pmLiar, everybody knows that Linux is infallible and Window$ is pure shite. I'm sure, given its popularity, you can find all the software you need for The Chosen Platform too. And it is likely, literally, coded by virgins with their tongues in the right angle, possibly even partially nude virgins!/sJust connect it to the internet and keep it updated. If you don't install everything you find willy nilly or use it for browsing random stuff it'll in all likelihood work fine for years/indefinitely.