Huber Suhner vs Radiall for outdoor use - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Cicada
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 08:58:10 am
content: HiI need to use N type connectors on a outside installation close to the ocean. About 6 kilometers inland so no direct salt spray but lots of rain and wind in winter. These connectors will almost never need to be unplugged after installation.Huber Suhner use SUCOPLATING on their connectors.https://www.mouser.co.za/datasheet/2/829/HUBER_2bSUHNER_11_C_50_3_7133_NE_DataSheet-2581813.pdfRadiall use Nickle plating.https://www.mouser.co.za/datasheet/2/516/radl_s_a0003610289_1-2287198.pdfAlso see attached picture.The Radial connectors are much cheaper.I would like to know from your experience if the Nickle plated connectors would be acceptable in such environments or if the SUCO plating will be better.The expected lifetime of this project is 30 years.Cicada.

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 02:15:49 am
content: I've always tried to avoid RF connectors with nickel in their composition. There's plenty of "literature" on the subject...For example,https://www.anritsu.com/en-us/test-measurement/tchnologies/pim...and my experience has been such.Though, I confess I've often recommended nickel RF connectors to my competitors.Best practice is that RF connections should be well and properly sealed against the elements, so the type of connector, material, etc, isn't what's relevant in this regard. You can also find plenty of "literature" on properly sealing RF connections. Cleanliness and coverage are the essentials of success. Oldest connection I assembled and later disassembled was more than 40 years old, and inside it looked like the day I assembled it. (How did I get so old so fast?)

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 03:21:16 am
content: Quote from: Co6aka on October 13, 2023, 02:15:49 am+1 to this. If the connector is not going to be unplugged then protect with every means possible, including greases, drip loops and sealing boxes.

author: Cicada
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 09:52:01 am
content: Quote from: Whales on October 13, 2023, 03:21:16 amThanks a lot for these tips.This is for an installation of Ludlum radiation detectors. The detectors (outside building) is connected to electronics (inside building) by Belden 9223 low noise RG58 cable. We made a couple of these cables and they did not work. We got noisy signals on the detectors. After contacting Ludlum they indicated that these older style (more analogy type detectors) required the cables to be specific lengths to work. Now I am not sure if grease in connectors would influence the signals' properties / characteristics. I highly doubt that but since these cable and connectors are expensive I would like to avoid making a mistake by using grease in this application.But out of curiosity and for future reference. What type of grease are used in RF connectors?I have also thought it would be a good idea to protect these connectors in IP rated boxes with the cables coming in through compression glands. Having these boxes last for 30 years means they must have impressive specifications. For example what kind of compression gland would last 30 years.Maybe someone can point me in a direction.Driploops. Interesting. I will definitely try to work this idea into the cabling work where I can.

author: Cicada
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 10:11:37 am
content: Quote from: Co6aka on October 13, 2023, 02:15:49 amshould behttps://www.anritsu.com/en-us/test-measurement/technologies/pimThanks. Have not heard of PIM but I will read through it.As described in my other recent post this is a radiation detector application. So there will be ~ 1000V on the center conductor relative to the shield and superimposed on this 1000V will be small pulses from the radiation detector. As mentioned there is a requirement on the cable lengths to be certain lengths like 10, 30 and 100 meters for example. I do not have the correct numbers now. I can understand the need for this because small fast rising pulses on long cables can easily be drowned by reflections and noise.My concern is that corrosion and galvanic effects could cause noise. So this is why I am concerned about materials and protection.Thanks a lot to all the wisdom coming in from the community.I love this forum.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 03:49:46 pm
content: If it never needs to come apart, you could also try using marine grade heat shrink over the entire joint. The glue should seal to the coax.https://www.amazon.com/ELECFUN-8in-Heat-Shrink-Tubing/dp/B09D6XGK7F?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A2N9K1HSWO83WF&th=1

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 05:55:32 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 13, 2023, 03:49:46 pmIf the coax and connector areclean.Kimwipes and 100% IPAshoulddo the job. The problem is that any contamination eventually opens up a path for water/moisture, so a final coating of protective sealant is wise. (NOT that "silicone" greasy kidstuff) Note that military/marine grade heat shrink with the adhesive inside is NOT the same as the industrial/consumer stuff with hot snot inside. Avoid the hot snot stuff...unless you're my competitor.Also, be absolutely certain that your RF connectors and connections are "good" before sealing them with the goodstuff, because the goodstuff don't come off! Leave a "service loop" of coax in case you have to cut off your termination...to replace the antenna/device. (Not because you screwed up the connector, of course.)For temporary/testing purposes, that self-vulcanizing "stretch wrap" tape is OK, provided the connector and coax are clean. It will come right off with a gentle surface score, and then it can (must) be replaced with the goodstuff (unless you're my competitor.)

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 06:08:09 pm
content: Quote from: Cicada on October 13, 2023, 09:52:01 amNONE, unless you're my competitor, then any conductive grease will suffice.There's an old joke about grease causing the VF to increase to beyond lightspeed; that the RF is traveling fast enough already.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2023, 09:46:15 am
content: Quote from: Co6aka on October 13, 2023, 06:08:09 pmI meant on the outside of the connector, not the inside, but I would have assumed it would be fine in there anyway? Or do the exposed cable dielectric layers only work if there is a thin layer of air around them, not a grease?

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2023, 11:11:49 am
content: Quote from: Cicada on October 13, 2023, 09:52:01 amSilicone dielectric grease is most commonly used.Only no-no for grease in RF connectors I'm aware is high power/high frequency air insulated connectors like 3.5mm 2.92mm and APC-7 RF connectors or 4" ! heliflex pressurized gas coaxial connectors.

author: mjs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2023, 03:33:05 pm
content: Antenna connectors for some professional marine installations I saw were H+S N-connectors with o-rings and taped over with some kind of self vulcanizing tape.I also opened some Inmarsat boxes that had traveled all over the world with such connections. Absolutely flawless electronics inside, even though connector outer surfaces and even coaxial cable metals had some oxidation.If I had to do this kind of stuff now, I'd copy that approach.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2023, 03:48:53 pm
content: hmm since this is something expensive can't you get a network analyzer and measure cables with grease ?i think your biggest mistake here is that you wanna get this right without testing. It should get the envirometal chamber. To seal the test ends off, put them in small glanded enviromental boxes, and remove the lid of the box after its removed from the chamber so you can connect to the connector that is inside of the box (connector loose in middle of box). That way you could test a splice with proper connections on it for testing.What I know you should avoid is cable that has teflon tape wrap insulation. The more solid it is, the less it wicks water if it gets damaged.this seems like a nuclear security issue.. i think you should do it by the bookwhat would be really interesting too if you roughed up the cable after your initial tests to see how damage progresses. say from abrasion,a pin hole, mis drill, concrete saw nick, boot damage, etc. to determine the durability of the cable in a environmental chamber.