EEVblog #455 - Auction Bonanza - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 03:09:29 pm
content: Nice! Love the megohm bridge and the decade resistor!

author: nicknails
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 04:15:48 pm
content: Nice find! How do you find out about auctions like this? Probably totally different here in the states though.

author: eevblogfan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 04:28:23 pm
content: Dave I am jealous at youlols I need some good 2000W UPS , can you sell it for me ? no need for battery ( all the weight ) I have 6 12V 12AH batteries so no need for that , but the UPS , how much ?for that money you are happy camper man

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 07:28:02 pm
content: Nice score Dave! That is, apart from the probably dead 100Kg of SLA batteries. The frequency standard looks great, I'd love to have a play with it

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 07:34:18 pm
content: all for 260$?your're an auction master!

author: ecat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 08:31:05 pm
content: Dave sounds soooo excited, tehe .... he must be a pain the arse at ChristmasSo many new toys, and I do wonder what is in the server apart from lots of serial ports. Yes I'm jealous.

author: menimitz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 09:00:12 pm
content: I can't believe how cheaply stuff like this goes for. I guess it was worthless to them so any income was a plus.I was also interested in how you find a sale like this. I mean I am sure they publicize them to get the best crowd they can, but where?

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 09:23:24 pm
content: $260 for all that. What a steal!For those asking how to take part in auctions like that, in the US, one source is here:http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/search?cmd=results&query=Lf2yeUwp22VV&sort=relevance&ascending=1&_per_page=200The inventory of items on auction varies tremendously over time. Slim pickings right now. BTW, the various auction locations do not ship this stuff to you if you win the bid. It must be picked up very soon after winning. I suspect there are services that might do this for you.

author: vaualbus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 09:50:09 pm
content: Look up this guys, it seem to be an interesting network analyzer (not come up with screen buto for 50$ it is a good purchase)http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=6158299&convertTo=USD

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 09:54:44 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on April 18, 2013, 07:34:18 pmNo, sorry. $260 was the UPS stuff, counter, rubidium, & industrial PC.The decade boxes were separate, as was the Keithley.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 10:28:55 pm
content: IME at 'real world' auctions like this, the only bargains are in "the weeds" - boxes of random stuff, custom-made test jigs etc.Anything resembling decent stuff tends to go for silly money.Once buyers commission & VAT are added, I've seen stuff go for close to retail.Not been to one for a long time - I doubt Ebay has improved matters, and many on-site auctions have internet bidding as well now, so more idiots to run prices up.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 10:43:42 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 18, 2013, 09:54:44 pmStill a fantastic price!

author: mgregg
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 11:14:39 pm
content: Dave, in my server room here have 6 of those UPS's.Those are quite high end.I believe I have the software for them here if you would like a copy of them before you ebay them.Also, if you pull them apart for a look, APC connects the batteries in series, and the battery packs run at something above 100VDC.ie, the can be hazardous to take apart, be careful if and when you do pull them apart.As long as those battery packs are good, those ups's are really nice to have.

author: NickS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 11:22:56 pm
content: That looks like a fantastic UPS. A teardown would be very interesting to see what APC does inside them.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 11:28:27 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 18, 2013, 10:28:55 pmYes indeed.This pallet of "unserviceable gear went for over $7500 for example + GST + 13.5% commision:Plus it was won by someone in Victoria who would have to ship it.Quote

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 11:35:10 pm
content: I am most interested in hearing about the Keithley bridge. How do they do it? Just doing some quick calculations. At 1000 TOhms, 1 fempto amp of leakage into the null detector when balanced would cause an error of 1V. So with an 1000V supply, this means either the 1012range switches in a 1 TOhm resistor for the low part of the bridge, or the alternative is the null detector leakage is way below 1fA. 1 attoAmp leakage would allow the top range resistor to be a much more comfortable 1GOhm.These are just insane numbers! The designers of this stuff must come from another planet.Is the 8 decade decade unit accurate to 8 digits or is it just 8 digits to provide the range? If it has a true 8 digit decade accuracy, it is something to bow down before. We are not worthy.As far as the decade box goes, they probably have solid silver contacts. Before you touch the switches internally, the first thing you have to do is turn the switches end to end 10 times to knock off a bit of the surface tarnish. If they have been sitting in a store rack for several years before they were checked for calibration and the contacts were not exercised, they will definitely read high.A very exciting buy. Lots of unobtanium in this lot.Definitely get the UPS batteries charged as soon as possible, and sell it while you can. Just replacing the batteries will cost a fortune.Richard.

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 12:12:15 am
content: That what happens when you live in Perth, miss out on all the good stuff. Damn

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:45:36 am
content: The IRT distribution amps on the frequency standard box look a lot like the IRT Vision Distribution Amplifiers we used to use inTV site installations back in the day,as do the associated power supplies.As far as I know,IRT was an Australian manufacturer----their stuff looks a bit "HMV/EMI-ish",so I wonder what their history was.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 03:26:16 am
content: This pallet of "unserviceable gear went for over $7500 for example + GST + 13.5% commision:Plus it was won by someone in Victoria who would have to ship it.QuoteI was watching this auction and was just floored by the amounts the pallets of 'unservicable' gear went for, surely none of will ever end up ebay. I guess who ever had that much cash to spare would have buyers in the industry in mind. (hopefully the gear is not that unservicable).The cal lab this and other gear came from was closed last year.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:04:41 am
content: A teardown of the UPS would be quite interesting. If it still works, it can be pretty useful with your new PC.BTW, a UPS with a 192V (nominal) or so battery is quite valuable even if the batteries are bad since it can be used as a really powerful inverter for allowing a hybrid car to work as a backup generator. (And don't forget that even bad batteries are worth something. In the US, they're worth $12 each although I'm not sure if it's possible to get that without buying new batteries.)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:24:21 am
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on April 19, 2013, 03:26:16 amI'm betting it's one of the major surplus dealers in VIC. I think there are two of them, one was formally Macservice.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:40:37 am
content: Ahh yes forgot about them, that would make sense.BTW I posted a link to the time and frequency page of the NMI in the other thread for blog #456.Tells you what the time and frequency standards being maintained are (Hydrogen Maser's and caesium beam)

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 05:20:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 18, 2013, 11:28:27 pmThis thing don't worth 7000$! Epic fail....

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 07:11:23 am
content: Please contact me before you ebay the UPS stuff. I have posts elsewhere that indicate I am done with the garden variety UPS here.Prepared to pick up.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 11:27:16 am
content: i've seen those APC ups inside and they're stunningly beautiful (sadly i couldn't poke or dissasemble them too much as they where in operation), it wmuld make an incredible teardown.btw, you could use it to power your entire lab with exquisite pure super smooth filtered synthesized AC!, no noisy horribly distorted mains AC with common mode noise!

author: PhilNY
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:04:37 pm
content: DaveI still admire the construction of the Gen Rad & Keithley stuff. The decade boxes are extremely well made and are only damaged when a novice puts too much current through them. I just loved getting inside those units and was marveled by the quality of components used in those lab standards.Great find. Love the lines of those GR's & KEGsPhil

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:21:06 pm
content: Dave, those APC UPS are very nice, but the batteries are reckonned to only last for three years, five if you are VERY lucky. So there may not be a lot of life left in them, if they are the originals, and/or have been allowed to go pancake-flat. I suspect that inverter is one of the "online" types, which rectifies incoming mains to DC then inverts it into a local, isolated AC supply again. The batteries kick in when the incoming AC dips for any reason. But you are on a locally generated (and hopefully low noise, spike-free) supply all the time, with no direct connection to the utility mains supply.A great haul, though.So what does Oz do for a "standard" second, now, then?

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:44:54 pm
content: the "3 year" duration is pure bullshit to force you to pay for batteries and toss away perfectly usable ones, the 3 years is like the famed "3db" thingy, it's when the batteries are ~at 50% their original endurance -which if your equipment does not use a lot of power it will still mean HOURS of runtime-.i've had those kind of APC UPS with 5yr+ batteries still running, and it's not an outlier, it's more of the norm.BTW, that UPS is most likely a SURT2200RMXLI (hah, being an APC partner perks), all the APC upses with that much power are online only, this not being the exception.You could probably sell that entire setup north of 1K dollars, the external battery pack is pretty expensive

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:55:40 pm
content: Quote from: vaualbus on April 18, 2013, 09:50:09 pmThat's just the display unit, it still needs a frequency sweeper and some detectors and a bridge to make a scalar analyzer.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 05:26:03 pm
content: I am running my network on a APC 3000 right now. I've been running APCs for years because 1) they're great, 2) used prices on surplus units are reasonable and 3) you can dump the APC software and use open source apcupsd to monitor and control them.The battery lifetime does get a little iffy after 4 or 5 years. The UPS will do a power test every once in a while and if the batteries have sulfated the UPS will give you an urgent warning and you may find yourself with a shutdown system. The 3-5 year lifetime is preventative maintenance to avoid that. On a commercial op you need to follow that, but on a private setup you can run them until the batteries fail.Battery failure is probably the number 1 reason they show up surplus. If I want to spring for batteries, I can usually pick up an APC unit from my local university surplus sales for $25-50. I picked up 2 3000 and 2 1500 units for $250 the other year with 2 year old batteries from my local craigslist (I'm US, btw). I'm running the 3000 at 15% load which will give me 40+ minutes of backup time.I used to go to auctions quite a bit, but they were more fun before online buyers came along. I used to get all kinds of interesting stuff for a couple dollars. The last few auctions I went to you might as well have just bought retail. You'd come out ahead after the buyer's premium and fees.Nice haul on this one though

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 08:05:37 pm
content: I wouldn't tear it down I'd just leave everything alone, and enjoy using it, lovely haul there you lucky lad.

author: wastrix
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 12:13:15 am
content: This turned up on eBay recently:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Keithley-241-Regulated-High-Voltage-Power-Supply-Keithley-515A-Megohm-Bridge-/290897188795?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item43bad2d7bbI'm guessing it came from the same auction.Tesla500 did a bunch of videos on a similar APC UPS:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 12:16:47 am
content: Quote from: wastrix on April 20, 2013, 12:13:15 amVery likely.I should undercut him by half, then mine looks like a bargain!

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 12:30:45 am
content: Quote from: wastrix on April 20, 2013, 12:13:15 amI think I have seen they have been trying to sell it for years - they just refuse to reduce the price. It might explain why Dave was able to pick up his lot so easily - the Melbourne equipment hire guys knew it was hard to sell.I found the manual:http://bee.mif.pg.gda.pl/ciasteczkowypotwor/Keithley/515A.pdfHand drawn schematics! The circuit is actually pretty simple. Easy to make as long as you can get the resistors up to 1,000,000,000,000 ohms they use in the range multiplier. All it takes is 100,000 10Mohm resistors in series for the highest range. The accuracy is from 0.012% up to 10MOhms at 10V up to 0.5% at 1015ohms tested at 500V.I gather the accuracy limits are partly due to the difficulty in calibrating the unit - the resistor calibration set Keithly sell can only manage 0.5% accuracy for a 10,000,000,000,000 ohm resistor. Pathetic!

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 12:53:39 am
content: The resistors in the 8 decade switch don't look all that great. The best are 0.01% and the top range only has 0.5%. They could be selected resistors to make matched sets, so the actual relative match of the resistors may be better then the manufacturers accuracy.So the 8 decade switch is to provide the range and not 8 digit resolution.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 12:56:00 am
content: Quote from: amspire on April 20, 2013, 12:30:45 amYes, that's common with these mobs, just keep relisting till you find a sucker.I'm pretty sure they bid on the pallets of bokren gear.Can't believe I got the counter/rebidium/psu for the price I did. They mustn't have read the description correctly, as anyone in the business should know the Agilent counter alone is worth double what I paid.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 01:15:58 am
content: I can understand them missing the Rubidium standard - at first glance it looks like a bit of custom-built hardware that is probably useless. They probably don't have your radar for clues like the "SRS" indicating the Standford Research module.Maybe they had blown the budget getting the other pallets. That other pallet you listed did include a Datron 4920M AC Calibration Standard and that might have really caught their eye. They must have their own calibration lab to check out their rental gear, and it is very rare to find a meter accurate to about 10ppm for AC.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 08:52:04 am
content: Quote from: amspire on April 20, 2013, 12:30:45 amThere are huge amounts of stuff on ebay that could be applied to.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2013, 07:26:14 am
content: Dave,You can use the UPS to power the whole lab. You have quite an investment in equipment so better use a good ups system. During summer time here in Arizona we have lots of lightning storms and is when equipment die whether is because of surges, brownouts or power outages. You got it practically for free, may as well use itThe beauty of the Smart line is that they convert the AC to DC and then the DC to a perfect sinusoidal AC. If I remember correctly it is isolated.

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2013, 08:22:14 am
content: sometimes at auctions can hit different priceexample of Polandallegro ~ ebayhttp://allegro.pl/tektronix-tds-3032b-i3124473312.html1500 PLN ~ 430 USDI have not bought it, but someone had luck

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2013, 01:26:40 pm
content: Good find on the UPS. I buy those sized units all the time when I see them at auction. I bought a pallet of them a couple years ago, about 20 for under $50 for the pallet. Every single one of the ones I have bought at auction have worked because they all have the same fault, bad batteries. Battery replacement cost is so high, and it has been about 2-3 years so most places just discard the unit.Inside the UPS is a parts superstore. Mosfets , each unit of mine has about 25 of them. Relays probably about 10, omron brand, not cheap stuff. Caps about 20 , nice nichicon branded. Transformer - massive 1:1 transformer with a 20A rating, heatsinks about 4-5 nice heavy ones, torroid cores used in filtering 4-5, circuit breakers, fuses, misc components. Really great stuff for building power supplies. These units are pure sine wave so lots of uses.For batteries you can use marine or solar batteries and these UPS are rated for the stated wattage rate continuous not like the low end UPS that will overheat if run for 30 minutes.The batteries can sometimes be restored depending on how they failed. Often it is because all the water has evaporated out of the cells. Use a hydrometer to check the electrolyte , often just adding more water can bring the battery back to a useful state.Before anyone says "these are sealed batteries, they don't need water" they are sealed, but still vent over time. Take a sharp tool and get under the top plastic cover and snap it off, under that is 6 cell covers, little rubber caps, pull those off and check the water level. They have to vent the batteries because in an overcharge situation the battery could burst if not for the safety vent. The safety vent isn't 100% air tight so over 2-3 years the electrolyte level drops. BTW, car batteries are the same system and many car batteries can be prolonged or restored with added water.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2013, 07:51:52 pm
content: ptricks, thos batteries DONT HAVE ANY WATER, they use a gel-type solid electrolyte that's why they're "unspillable", so no adding anything possible

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2013, 08:02:16 pm
content: You can add water, the gel is quite liquid, and does dry out. I have gotten a year or two on many SLA batteries that way. 10ml of water per cell is all they often need to get to a usable state. If it rattles though then it has broken internal connections. Even car batteries that are "sealed for life" have cell fillers under either a sticker or a welded down cover. remove, top up and away you go for another 2 years.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2013, 08:12:16 pm
content: but opening those sealed things is messy, it's all glued and gunked

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2013, 04:01:09 am
content: Gel batteries so that you have 5-6 years to break downAt higher temperatures (above 25 C), this process acceleratesabout 2 x faster for every 3 to 4 C25 C - 5 life years29 C ... 3 ...etc

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2013, 06:39:53 am
content: Quote from: max-bit on April 22, 2013, 04:01:09 amThe other thing is if you have a UPS with good batteries, don't leave it on a shelf for 12 months. At least once a month you have to plug the UPS in and recharge the batteries, otherwise the batteries will self-discharge to a point where they will degrade.Basically use the UPS or sell it.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2013, 11:42:05 am
content: Quote from: Eliminateur on April 21, 2013, 07:51:52 pmEven if gel cell type they dry out eventually, most are not gel though and use AGM which is much more susceptible to water loss than gel. Out of the 100+UPS batteries I have encountered only 2 were gel.I find quite a few high end brands like yausa and panasonic and it is shame these batteries are not restored because they do have quite a few years left on them. The cheaper ones like BP are not so good , most of them end up with a dead cell or heavy sulfur build up on the plates.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2013, 12:04:00 pm
content: i have a ton of these batteries in the shop, i'm going to try and pop the cell lids and see what's in there....

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2013, 07:22:21 pm
content: Pretty easy, generally there is a sticker on top covering a set of caps or a small plate solvent welded on in spots. A bit of gentle persuasion with a screwdriver and it pops off.