Another DMM thread.. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 12:32:39 pm
content: So, i'm looking for a new DMM, but can't make up my mind.I've considered these models;The classic Fluke 87VAgilent U1273A - 30.000 counts, Low pass filter for VFD's.U1272A - 30.000 counts, LPF, Smart-OhmU1252B - 50.000 counts,U1253B - 50.000 counts, OLED.Hows the OLED to work with? A cool feature is the build-in freq-gen, and low-Z measurement. I don't get what "Smart-Ohm" is.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 01:11:13 pm
content: Smart Ohm is a DC offset rejection mode.The meter measures a DUT resistor with 2 different currents, deriving stray DC current and voltage values from the difference in resistance measurements. Leakage current or voltage is shown in the secondary display.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 01:13:33 pm
content: Thanks for clarifying.Just noticed the batterylife on OLED-models

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 01:18:07 pm
content: 1273AX isn't too bad: 80 Hours with Li-Ion battery.I get 16 hours with 2 AA batteries on the Gossen 30M.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 02:05:03 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on May 18, 2014, 01:18:07 pmSorry to go a bit off topic, but given that you've admitted to owning a Gossen 30M can you say what your general experiences with it are.In particular, does it match up to a bench 6 1/2 digit meter in terms of longer term drift/accuracy (the specs in the data sheet seem pretty good)?One limitation that I've noticed from the data sheet, compared to say an Agilent 34461A, is the 100mA maximum current measurement limit. This would seem to be a bit of a restriction for general use (though I guess you could use an external precision shunt). Do you use the meter generally or for particular applications?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 02:47:15 pm
content: Avoid OLED models, the screen may have a shorter lifespan vs LED and justslightlymore problems than those with LED as it ages. Current generation OLED devices are OK if you intend to discard the device in 5-10 years and you want the nicer screen now. Relatively speaking, a good DMM can last you a lifetime, so think in terms of that duration. All these DMMs have been discussed at length in the archives. To summarize:87V: has less features for near the same money as the Agilents, so OK if you get it far cheaper than Agilent. In the USA used one sells for 50% or less than new.1272A: your better bet if you take your meter outdoors typically, its tough.1252B: your choice if most work is done indoors, occasional outdoors. Preferred if you want higher accuracy.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/agilent-u1253b-internal-and-what-about-the-oled-display/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#Disadvantageshttp://www.home.agilent.com/owc_discussions/message.jspa?messageID=102917I have all 3. I use 1252ain the lab, use the Fluke locally more than the 72a as the latter has less ergonomics. I use the 72a when I travel as its tougher while reliable and has more features for weight.Quote from: cs.dk on May 18, 2014, 12:32:39 pm

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 02:58:36 pm
content: The 30M is not really a meter for general use. Its intended purpose is mostly for lab work, measuring and recording very small long term deviations, with an external power connection.It uses anunheatedZener diode as a voltage reference, so could never match the accuracy of bench meters with a similar count, over a large temperature range.According to Gossen though, it should stay within its accuracy specifications for about 3 years if the meter is not handled too roughly over that period.Since I don't have the logging software or hardware yet, I use it mostly as a voltage reference for my other meters and occasionally for special measurements, like leakage current.I'm still experimenting with it, but need to sort out the mains connection first, before any serious work can be done.I'll do a review of the meter eventually, when I feel comfortable talking about its capabilities.Unless you desperately need mobile accuracy, you're better off looking somewhere else.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 04:47:56 pm
content: For the love of god, don't get an OLED version. I really like my new U1272A but I saw the 73 outside and it's battery life.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 05:08:16 pm
content: You may want to take a look at this thread. It suggests that Fluke's warranty is better than Agilent's.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/failed-firmware-update-on-u1273a-and-agilent's-response/

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 05:17:24 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on May 18, 2014, 02:58:36 pmThanks, that is useful to know. I was a little puzzled about the combination of 6 1/2 digits and a battery powered handheld - though there would be certain geeky oneupmanship in having 1.2M counts on your meter out in the field.The small company I used to run (with several others) made a pulsed measurement instrument and adjusting that required more accurate voltage readings than the average multimeter but even so I think 4 1/2 digits was quite adequate.I look forward to your review when you've had it a bit longer.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 06:14:27 pm
content: I will also recommend against the OLED versions. They have a life span much shorter than LCDs and the battery consumption would drive me crazy.Agilent seems to be trying hard to lower everyone's opinion of them lately with some quality problems. I would still consider the U1252 or the U1272, but the Fluke 87V is a solid and reliable choice. It might not be the best value for the money but you almost be 100% sure it will last a long long time.Actually, I wonder when Fluke will release a new meter in the same model line with more features?

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 06:20:55 pm
content: When compare Fluke and Agilent, remember that many more Agilent DMM's has a computer interface. You need the top model Fluke to get computer interface.

author: CosPhi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 08:27:48 pm
content: I have an U1272A and I'm happy with it because it is fast, has nice backlight, it can log data, has a good size, is rugged, good specs, possible connect to pc or cellphone (cheap cable, free software), Ohm goes down to 0.001Ohms, has a lot of features (but some few do not work very well ...).But I'm not sure if I would buy it again ...-I sometimes have problems with the "wrong jack alarm". Sometimes it beeps and blinks even nothing is in there (maybe just a little little bit dirt). It is very difficult "to make it quiet" again. I never ever had such something with any Fluke.-I never liked the very easy access to the LowZ mode. I was always a bit worry to get in it when I turn of my meter but the test leads are still somewhere on electronics. And since I know it has even less than 2kOhm input impedance even just in Off position it give me always a bit a worrying feeling ...But what else to buy ... Fluke + logging + 0.001Ohm ... you have go this to pretty big 289.For sure I would nothing buy with OLED. Even I'm not a very green person ... it's a waste of energy.If you don't need a very rugged meter the 52 would maybe a good option ...If you don't need data logging the 87 would maybe a good option ...

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 09:20:04 pm
content: I would like to ask: Are you only considering the Agilents and Fluke? There is at least one other good alternative.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 09:35:50 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 18, 2014, 09:20:04 pmIf you do extend your search to Gossen and Hioki meters, in the UK at least these people seem to have good prices :http://www.testtoolsshop.com/multimetersI've not (yet) bought anything off them so I don't know what their customer service is like though they did respond quickly to an e-mail I sent. I don't even know if they ship to Denmark but the prices they list are about £100 ex VAT less than Farnell on the couple of meters I looked at.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 09:37:40 pm
content: Also Oleds, outside in the sun are useless, you can’t read the display.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 11:35:02 pm
content: Another vote for skipping the OLED screen models.From what's listed, and assuming for primarily electronics use, the U1252B would be the best choice IMHO (indoors on a bench; I've used mine outside on a few occasions and it's fine, but it won't take the same amount of abuse the U1272A can).But the real question to me, is are you willing to consider other brands/models?I ask, as theBrymen BM869would be comparable to the U1252B, and can be had for a lot less money in the EU for example (i.e for ~$250 vs. ~$485 for the U1252B from tme.eu).

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 07:20:17 pm
content: Thanks alot for all replys. Yes, I would consider other brands, also the Fluke 289, which i forgot in the listing.I just want a DMM that last me the next 5 year, minimum.Brymen looks like a good meter for my use. - And the price is really reasonable.

author: NYEngineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 07:24:08 pm
content: Quote from: cs.dk on May 19, 2014, 07:20:17 pmDoes the Fluke 289 do real-time trend graphing, or does it only graph historical information?I see that Fluke is giving away a free Fluke Connect adapter with the 289 now.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 12:54:58 pm
content: I have both the U1253b and the 87v, since agilent updated the charging software I am getting about 20hrs use per charge,I almost always reach for the agilent 1st as the display is so much clearer, invariably when I am using them s**t is everywhere, wires, power supplies etc, the dmm ends up at a funny angle etc, the agilent is always easily readable. The Agilents default leads are better, the flukes I have thrown away and some probe masters live in it now.In reality both are very good meters, for decades of use the Fluke may last, but that may be because I wear the agilent out 1st!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 05:55:31 pm
content: Quote from: NYEngineer on May 19, 2014, 07:24:08 pmHistorical, as the graph is created from stored measurement values (up to 15k of them). Think "graphs it as it goes", getting more detailed as time goes on due to more and more measurements get stored to display.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 06:23:28 pm
content: I have a couple of the U1272A meters, they're great, very reliable. I have had no problems with them giving a false warning of having plugs in the wrong jacks (Amps). That particular feature is very nice to have if you're working with mains.I also have the Fluke 289... if you don't absolutely need the features, then I'd recommend picking something else. It is just slow enough on start-up to be annoying, it doesn't have great battery life, it's really big and heavy. The menus are annoying; I bought it knowing about the menus, but after 1.5 years of using it and then getting the U1272A, I now don't like the 289 much at all.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 11:31:05 pm
content: Recent Agilent OLED experience on forum:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-u1253b-multimeter/msg449240/#msg449240

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2014, 06:40:05 am
content: So, i've been thinking, reading specs on alot multimeters - I'll order the Brymen BM869, it looks like very good bang for the buck.Thanks alot for all answers.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2014, 03:33:18 pm
content: Quote from: cs.dk on May 30, 2014, 06:40:05 amYou won't be disappointed! After buying a BM869 myself I then purchased 2 other Brymens.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 09:21:08 am
content: Now i have spend some time with the BM869, and i'm very happy with it. I'm feeling getting alot bang for the buck, though the size surprised me, it's quite big.A really cool feature i like, is the display settings in various modes are saved, and set as default when you power it up again.Being able to measure on VFD's is also great - Tested yesterday, the inverter showed 30.00 Hz and 143,5 V in the display. The BM869 was fluctuating between 29.99-30.00 Hz, 143,7V - Really good!Another non RMS-meter shows 293 Volts, how is that possible? The frequencycounter in that meter was way off to..The continuity-tester is fast, but i would like that to be latched. It can scratch a little, but thats no problem so far.One thing that drives me crazy - Why the heck is it impossible to turn the backlight on for more than ~15 seconds? Can I hold a button when powering up or something?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 04:06:17 pm
content: The back light has no adjustment. That is one thing I hate on almost all handheld multimeters, their lack of time selection for the back light. I would like the have the option of a couple of different timeouts, and never timeout.Part of the reason for the BM869 to be so big is the size of the fuses and the high voltage rating. It needs a lot more space for this.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 06:03:44 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on June 15, 2014, 04:06:17 pmAgilent U1271/72/73 have that.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 03:26:31 am
content: Why do people recommend Agilent U127x rather than U125x which has more counts and precision?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 06:26:37 am
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 19, 2014, 03:26:31 amNever understood this myself, particularly as the U125x is designed for electronics use, and the prices I've seen are so close.Pricing outside of the US drastically different maybe?

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 08:18:35 am
content: I wonder if it's because 127x is a higher number than 125x and therefore is _perceived_ as being the more superior model?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 11:23:01 am
content: I have both. The 72a is better made all around, a tough meter, made for taking out doors. The 125x has more accuracy and precision but its not built as tough as the 72a and is better indoors. If you need more accuracy, you are better off buying a used bench meter than the 125x; if you can only afford one all purpose DMM, and do not do a lot of out door testing, the 5x is a choice.However, IMHO for US buyers I'd rather get a used Fluke 87V and refurbish it [ ~$150 at eBay] and a used 6.5 digit bench meter [$50-$300, the HP 3456a without ammeter or 3457a for its ammeter ] if I needed a field meter and an accurate lab meter.Quote from: jimjam on June 19, 2014, 08:18:35 am