Tried to install windows 11 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 12:01:07 pm
content: Hi I tried to install windows 11 on a MK8 Panasonic Toughbook but it failed and microsoft said to clear the TPM so I did and now I cannot get into the bios it is asking for the password which was "bios" but now it just says invalid password. I have tried all the back door passwords that I can find for the American megatrends.I am beginning to think my only option is to install a new bios chip but that will be a last resort, just wondering if anyone out there has any recommendations for this problem.I forgot to say that it is a CF19 MK8 Toughbook.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 08:33:56 pm
content: (nervous chuckle - sorry)There should be a way to reset your bios so you can get back in (lost passwords, that happens). See your computer documentation, or ask the manufacturer.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 04:32:52 pm
content: I contacted Panasonic and got a reply, "The serial number is incorrect, but I found the model on our system. It is a custom model with a custom BIOS, and there is no way around it."Not sure that this does not really mean we are not interested in a six year old computer or what, as the serial number is clearly marked on the back of the laptop by Panasonic.So it looks like a chip swap is going to be the only way forward.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 08:41:33 pm
content: I don't know this model at all. But wouldn't removing the CMOS battery clear all BIOS parameters (including requirement for a password) and allow you to get back in? I think it does on many motherboards? For that you'd need to open it of course...

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 09:13:52 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 05, 2021, 08:41:33 pmTried that including pressing the power button with the cmos battery removed along with the main battery there also does not appear to be a bios clearing jumper either.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:35:55 am
content: BIOS passwords on newer laptops is stored in the EEPROM itself.See this article for some helpful information:https://gist.github.com/en4rab/550880c099b5194fbbf3039e3c8ab6fdAlso, Windows 11?It had to be said.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:51:44 am
content: I'm so happy about this message:It means the machine can't automatically update to Windows 11 without my permission

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:53:57 am
content: Sorry to hear that.Quote from: G7PSK on November 03, 2021, 12:01:07 pmCan you explain how it failed - what happened? I would just like to know for educational purposes.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 08:25:41 am
content: In order to test windows 11 I tried to install it on a laptop that I use for logging voltage and or amps over a period connected to a couple of DVM's does not get much use so ideal candidate. When I tried to install Win11 I got a message to clear the TPM and click here so stupidly I clicked here then I got a message to turn TPM on again which on this machine is done in the BIOS,I dont know about others, so I tried to get into BIOS and found that it would not accept the password "BIOS" which I had previously set to that as some BIOS functions wont work without a password, the password was not accepted I just kept getting a screen saying invalid password so I set about trying all the back door passwords I could find online for these machines including the word BIOS both upper and lower case. This is not a machine I purchased new as they are rather expensive some versions exceed £6000.00 new. I purchased this refurbished from a Panasonic authorized dealer. I found someone selling password free BiOS chips on Ebay at £17.00 each and am now considering this, but as I am not really a software person and dont have the equipment nor for that matter the skills to examine the code on the chip I have no idea what sort of spyware might be on such a thing. I have tried updating the BIOS to the latest version which I got from the Panasonic website but I am still locked out. I am surprised that Windows can even do anything to the BIOS perhaps I shouldn't be.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 02:41:19 pm
content: You would be surprised of what windows can do behind your backsome KBxxxxx updates will update your bios cpu microcodes ....and other thingsSorry to say it was a stupid idea to try windows 11 on a previous working lappy or computer if you use it for some work, it's full of quirks and bugsSome toughbooks needed some physical eeprom change to make it work again ... the bios eeprom got corrupted .... even the battery removal did not cause a password reset.Even if windows tells you to reset a tpm bios or reset some security feature you dont do it for a bugged Win11Tried this sucker on a 7th gen I7 pc, i was willing to fuck it up, and yes it fucked the secure boot, some tpm infos and some configs too, a reset helped, But this pc had/has an option to revert the bios to an older version, i downgraded it ... everything replaced itself, and i flashed it back to the same version it had (latest one) ... win11 did complain about a few things and continued to boot ...Tried the original win11 iso from microsoft thru media creation tool and the obscur one who got some files patched up for tpm and hardwares check before install ... it's a new Vista

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 04:16:34 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on November 06, 2021, 02:41:19 pmWould it be worth trying an older version of the bios on this laptop and perhaps a fresh install of win 10.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 04:56:21 am
content: in my case the bios gives permission to be downgraded, if it was set to no, and the bios goes nuts, it may be impossible to downgrade itFor you you may end to buy an already programmed bios chip and replace the original one, find someone who has the right equipment to unsolder it, you may end with a dead board if youre not good at thisIn some cases you can or could be able to reprogram it on the board if you have the right tools, i was able to convert a voluntarly crippled bios (terminal payment machine) to its original working mode and use it back as a computer.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 08:20:57 pm
content: Wow. As I said, what if you just forgot the password? Shit happens. If the manufacturer doesn't provide any way out, then it's mind boggling.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 01:59:23 am
content: Dump the EEPROM (which contains more than the BIOS, including the password) and see if you can follow the steps in the article I linked.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 12:22:51 pm
content: I have just got another reply from Panasonic,Response By E-mail (Andrea) (08/11/2021 09.15 AM)"Good Morning,Thank you for the correct serial number.The Toughbook in question is still equipped with a custom BIOS, and there is no chance for Panasonic to change this, or to give advise on how to change it.Thank you for your understanding.Please contact Panasonic before purchasing second hand units.We are able to tell you if it is a customised Toughbook. Although we are unable to share specifics on those units, at least you would know what it is, and maybe decide not to buy it."I tried to use the system as described in the link with no luck to date, I think it will be easier to change the bios chip but wondering from the reply from Panasonic if that would even work as I am not sure what they mean by a custom bios is this just the code or is it a special chipset, might be easier to get another computer although this one still works ( I am writing this on it) it just bugs me that I cannot get into the bios settings, I cannot even change the boot order. updating the Bios does nothing I am still locked out and updating again just gets the coment that this computer is running the latest version.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 01:02:38 pm
content: Interesting problem... I didn't know that laptop makers made custom versions of some of their models... maybe there are corporations with special security requirements that order this kind of stuff.Would be interesting to know if there is more to it than a different BIOS chip....[Edit 1] From the Panasonic web site:[...]Multi-layered services to integrate hardware and software perfectlyNo two businesses are the same. Your operations, your customers and your service influence what you need from your technology. That’s why every TOUGHBOOK device offers flexibility, for a tailored solution that’s built for your business needs.Take this flexibility to the core, with our Custom BIOS Creation Service.From pre-configuration of standard ex-factory BIOS settings, to a complete custom BIOS service with individually-specified settings and your company logo on the start-up screen. We carry out testing and quality assurance at all levels, so you receive a complete solution with integrity built in.[...]Seems to me, it is probably just the BIOS. Maybe it cannot simply be reprogrammed, there may be read-only aspects to this.[Edit 2] This article may be of interest to you:https://customrugged.com/m-bios-panasonic-toughbook/

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 02:32:30 pm
content: Custom probably means the code is slightly different.Were you able to dump the BIOS at least?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 02:33:49 pm
content: The big buyers of this particular platform here in the UK seem to be the NHS (national health service) and the AA (Automobile Association) This is not the an ex AA one as I have had one before and the case is powder coated yellow as that is their livery colour, it could be NHS as they use silver colour and this is silver and has had the logo in the middle of the lid removed by the dealer and the NHS have the middle dog bone depression filled with a blue background and white letters saying NHS but there is no logo on the bios other large buyers are insurance companies and mortgage company surveyors and they like to have a camera onboard and this one has a camera in the base of the unit so my guess is this was originally belonging to one of the latter.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 02:58:14 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 08, 2021, 02:32:30 pmSo far I have not. One reason is the link goes to AMI website and I have not yet found the right program on the site, I am not a programmer so I am not sure of exactly which one I need and I dont want to go purchasing lots of software on a just if basis.This is a\ learning experience for me, my comfort zone is more in the generator area which is why I use the laptop for power monitoring.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 01:33:26 am
content: https://www.ami.com/download/aptio-4-ami-firmware-update-utility/It's free, like many of the other BIOS tools out there. This one notably comes from the official site.Use either AFUWIN32 or 64, depending on whether your OS is 32 or 64-bit, and see if it can read the BIOS.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 07:39:33 pm
content: I believe IT departments frequently want to prevent people from accessing BIOS settings in general. Which requires preventing a password reset. They may also have a fixed password, or some variation of the serial number so they can easily access it without having to go look up the password set.