Which of these 2 is the original product? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 12:07:50 am
content: These two international AC voltage converters appear identical with the exception of some of the labels on the chassis, and the different brand name. But everything else, including the shape of the chassis, placement of the air vents and screws, appears exactly identical.https://www.amazon.com/Simran-AC-500-Voltage-Converter-Transformer/dp/B004MPR3XQ/https://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2271One is Simran brand, and the is PowerBright brand. Are both of these companies under the same parent company, which authorized both to make identical products? Or is one an original and the other a knockoff? If one is a knockoff, which is the original? I thought PowerBright might be the original as they have an actual official websitehttps://www.powerbright.com/unlike Simran (for which I can find no official website). However, PowerBright is a Chinese company, so that means they may be involved in ripping off other companies (lots of products from China are ripoffs, unless they are actually American products that are simply using a Chinese factory for production, but this appears to be a Chinese product). So I realize that it's possible that neither of these companies made the original, and it may be a ripoff of some other company's product.Can anybody here looking at these pictures of the product in question, visually identify if these are simply ripoffs of another product that may be the actual original product? And if one of these 2 products is the original, which one?

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 12:26:30 am
content: In the pictures, as you stated, they look identical and probably are from the same factory. What you need to ask is what the quality is like and whether they match the quoted power rating. Try and look for reviews or tear downs of 110 to 220 step up transformer, 500w, and see what you get.

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 12:40:49 am
content: Quote from: moffy on August 31, 2021, 12:26:30 amLots of Chinese products have negative reviews. I read somewhere that the PowerBright transformers had about 20% of all reviews being less than 3 stars (in a 5 star rating system). Not sure about Simran. Some of that though may just be that they overloaded it, not realizing that they were (for example a 120V 500W load with a large reactive component can use more than 500VA of apparent power, meaning it can draw well over 4.17 amps, and as a result overload a transformer rated at 500VA due to that transformer not being able to handle more than 4.17 amps of current being drawn from it). Many people may not realize what loads they are attaching have a large reactive component, and only look at the wattage (real power) that the device is rated that it will use. So I don't put too much interest in customer ratings from the average-joe who uses the device, because most of them don't understand the technical details to know that they were at fault in the cases where it was their own fault. I'd need to see some actual input from someone with technical knowledge who's had a chance to test it, and post about whether or not it its stated specs met its real specs based on testing.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 12:45:45 am
content: With the sketchy universal plug they both look like Chinesium to me, I'd be surprised if either did 500 watts without smoking, expect poor construction you'll probably want to fix before powering it up.The fuses are oversized if uneducated users are burning them up.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 02:25:32 am
content: Neither is an "original product": these types of low-cost devices are made in state-owned enterprises based on designs that do not belong to anybody (gongkai). The labels are attached to them by export companies who do not make the products and generally know nothing about them. I am actually more skeptical the more "western" the name on the label, as it shows that the trader is farther from the OEM and probably has little or no communication with them.To see how these products are labeled by their actual manufacturers,thisis a helpful site: it shows the product dress in factory condition, before OEM labeling. It also reveals that most of these units are made in Wenzhou city: likely a series of transformer factories established by the Deng Xiaoping government.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 02:37:53 am
content: A similar but not identical unit which looks to be a real manufacturer:https://www.johsun.com/Low-voltage-transformer/power-voltage-converter-dt-100w

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 07:18:25 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 31, 2021, 02:25:32 amWhat's the Deng Xiaoping government? Is that a city government or something? I assumed that since China tends toward a communist style of governing, that any factories not owned by companies, would be owned by their national government. But Deng Xiaoping doesn't sound like the name of any Chinese national government agency (they would tend to go by names like CCP or something I think).

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 07:24:36 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on August 31, 2021, 02:37:53 amFurther research on Power Bright's own website, I found this quote on their about-us page.QuoteSo it seems like for PowerBright's equipment, they actually manufacture their own. The most important part of the above quote being "PowerBright designs and manufactures". In fact they provide a list of resellers of their equipment, showing that they aren't a reseller of someone else's equipment, but are instead an original equipment manufacturer. So that puts a lot of strength in my original hunch that PowerBright equipment is legit.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 08:15:22 am
content: Quote from: Ben321 on August 31, 2021, 07:18:25 amhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 02:05:13 pm
content: Quote from: Ben321 on August 31, 2021, 07:24:36 amYou have to understand that verbiage like the above is what is legally known as "mere puffery" or "mere boosterism". They are lies so generic and so widespread that no reasonable person takes them seriously—so the law allows them! If a product is substantially identical to gongkai goods, then they did not "design" it and it is not "the most technologically advanced on the market today." Those are just typical marketing lies. They do appear to be located in Suzhou, China, according to their FCC registration (2AXD2): so the manufacturing part may be accurate. They also have a line of inverters which they may have designed, but the "voltage step-up-down converter" is patently not original at all.

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 01:33:57 pm
content: Hmm both look like the cheapie units you find on Amazon/eBay, as in the ones that say they are rated to 500W but in reality can only do half that at continuous loadsHere is a good video on how a cheapie stepdown transformer compares to a proper unit

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 08:42:30 am
content: Quote from: ANTALIFE on September 03, 2021, 01:33:57 pmAn informative video. The question then is, where can one buy a stepdown transformer like the proper one shown in the video? Preferably on Aliexpress, if there are any decent quality stepdown transformers made in China. In my specific case, I'm looking for a 220V to 120V stepdown transformer. I saw this:https://www.aldetronics.co.uk/product/itv-15-isolated-ac-power-supply-variable-isolation-transformer/The ITV-15 is an isolated AC power supply, but would function as a stepdown transformer for me, and would actually I think be preferable compared to a fixed voltage stepdown transformer. But seems the manufacturer is out of stock, including their other items. Not sure if they're still doing business or what.I found a product that looks identical to the ITV-15. Not sure if they have an OEM in China is just making these available on the side, or if the Chinese one is a knock-off:https://cnzm.en.alibaba.com/product/60698984681-209894337/isolation_ac_power_supply.htmlPrice says it's $80 to $150, but MOQ is 30 pcs, as per the typical Alibaba listings which are looking to sell large quantities, not single quantity orders. If that product is decent, and available on Aliexpress, etc. in single quantity, and is of good quality, I'd be very interested. But so far my search hasn't turned up anything.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 09:02:17 am
content: I was just doing some further searching and came across this:http://item.yidoutang.com/78215.htmlThe Mraca Pig transformers are available in step up, step down, and isolation versions. That link shows a photo of the inside of the stepdown, and certainly looks much better than the cheap on in that video. Anyone have any experience with these Mraca Pig transformers?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 09:52:25 am
content: Given that theyallfeature death-sockets on the front, none of them have been through any sort of approval.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 10:12:13 am
content: But..but..it's anapproveddeath socket!

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 05:17:56 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 05, 2021, 08:42:30 amWe go our one from the same people that did the videohttps://www.tortech.com.au/product/voltage-converters/step-down/economy/economy-japanese-step-down-transformer/Maybe you can find someone locally that makes step up/down transformers?