glass vs metal baking pans? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 08:04:41 pm
content: So I read a comparison of glass and metal pans for baking, there are claims that despite the low thermal conductivity of glass it can bake a dish faster.Does anyone have any concrete experiments with this? Like baking the same thing in a glass and a metal pan to see which one is done faster?I was thinking about getting some new baking pans and I am wondering if I should go for more glass things in order to increase kitchen efficiency. It's not without its dangers though.How do you feel about glass bakeware?I rarely use them due to lack of know-how, but I do make sure to put them on a folded thick dry cloth when I pull them out of the oven for gentle cooling.I have seen glass crack before while it was just standing there shortly after washing. Usually a fracture in drinking glasses.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 08:30:47 pm
content: You should check out vintage Pyrosil ceramic casserole dishes made in the Netherlands. All the rectangularish ones with two tab handles, designed for use with a detachable lock-in handle and a realBorosilicate Pyrexglass lid are suitable for oven to table + stovetop use.https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=pyrosilAs long as you aren't stupid with them (i.e. don't knock them about or chip them against hard objects, or pour cold liquids into them while they are hot without enough liquid in them to buffer the thermal shock), they are extremely durable.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 08:51:03 pm
content: In the US, that item was sold as Corning Ware (Corning, NY, USA). For whatever reason it went off the market, and the name now applies to a different product (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CorningWare). They are definitely my favorite and clean easily. I have several, but wish I had more.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 09:13:29 pm
content: Yep. Even if you do something dumb and burn on something badly at the bottom, simply scrape out the worst of the char and soak them overnight and they'll scrub clean with minimal elbow-grease.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 09:33:18 pm
content: It's amazing to me that such a wonderful product is now vintage. Maybe it had to do with management at Corning that didn't understand its mission. Don't get me started on that. They also made beautiful, finely detailed ceramic Christmas tree ornaments using their photoetching processes. So far as I know, those ended in the 1990's too.On a personal note, my wife and I were visiting Spain, and our host assigned an associate to help us find our way around. Of course, we reciprocated with a gift, which was some original Corning Ware. She was delighted. Apparently, it was not available in Spain.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 09:53:49 pm
content: doing more research it appears there was a 1 million dollar lawsuit for a corning glassware dish that broke in the sink while it was being washed the day after it was used for cooking, so that residual strain in the glass caused an explosion that caused a laceration in the arm that prevented hand movement.I did see this before with a glass that was left on the counter and cracked (in front of my own eyes) like two days later (took it out of dishwasher and left it on the countertop).. thin wall water drinking glass (not wine). It split in a 'neat' manner, basically it turned into a shorter glass... as if you put it on a chop saw and cut it down to size (not perfectly perpendicular, but still). It was not an explosion however, I was looking at it while in the kitchen and it just made a little noise and basically split in two.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 10:00:26 pm
content: Not convinced by the example, could just be more retained heat.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 10:13:20 pm
content: how do you have retained heat after a day? They are cool to the touch in like an hour. I think it has something to do with strain.. but the glass I saw sever itself was of unknown manufacturer and it was old/dishwashed very many times.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 10:26:01 pm
content: Sorry, I meant the "faster" baking of the cake in the first video of the OP.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 11:02:37 pm
content: No thanks. I've switched to stone coated bakeware and couldn't be happier. No soaking, no "let's scrape it first", just put it in the dishwasher and done. And if you prefer to clean them manually, then it is just wiping off.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 12:45:17 am
content: Shame about the people living around the GenX factories ... fluoride chemistry is just a game of wackamole, they find new ones far faster than cancers can develop.Advertisers also found out that just by not mentioning PTFE they could convince people stuff is now PTFE free. So most "ceramic" non stick brands (ie. polysiloxane coatings) are dying out. Hell they put actual ceramics in a PTFE coating, so they can call it ceramic now for even more disingenuous bullshit.

author: srb1954
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 01:39:56 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 04, 2022, 10:13:20 pmSpontaneous glass explosions like this are relatively common in the tempered glass used for building glazing. It is apparently due to strain building up around minute impurity inclusions within the glass during manufacture and is not necessarily related to subsequent thermal cycling.In one office building I own I have had 2 panes spontaneously explode, one of which was within a internal stairwell and would have been subject to minimal thermal excursions.The glass manufacturers know all about this problem and will not provide any guarantee for their glass against such explosions.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 01:52:45 am
content: Quote from: srb1954 on February 05, 2022, 01:39:56 amI was once at a conference where the coffee station had a glass table top and was supporting coffee urns, cups and saucers and all the other typical items. Just as a hotel employee was replacing some items the glass top spontaneously exploded into a thousand fragments and deposited everything onto the floor. It was quite the disaster scene. Since then I think I would never trust glass in a critical service.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:01:53 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 04, 2022, 08:04:41 pmIf you can get glass pans or dishes made from true borosilicate glass, they would be OK.Unfortunately, the glassware you get in the USA will be fakeware, made from tempered soda glass, which is not the same thing at all. You can tell the difference as borosilicate glass has a blue-green tint, whereas ordinary glass is almost colorless.As far as I know, Pyrex brand ovenware sold in Europe is still the genuine article, and I have taken advantage of that by bringing home some glass casserole dishes purchased in the UK.The advantage of glass dishes for me is you can see inside them while in the oven, you can see how fast the liquid is boiling, and they are also as easy to clean as glazed stoneware.I would use metal for roasting and baking, and glass for casseroles or stews.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:05:45 am
content: well how about slow baked ribs in a glass pan? or pot roast, tenderloin, etc? I usually use a metal pan for these but I was wondering if glass would be better.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:26:52 am
content: It's not easy to say better or worse. I believe they would cook just the same either way.The disadvantage of glass is the increased weight compared to a roasting pan (but obviously lighter than cast iron). The advantage of glass is perhaps easier cleaning.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:28:40 am
content: so the cook time for a meat will be the same? They specifically say to reduce oven temperature by 25 degrees to get the same type of finish as a metal pan for baked goods... and some pro-energy savings website say to in general use glass because it generally cooks faster. I was wondering if it could save me time.... its counterintuitive because you would think higher thermal transfer means faster cooking... but I can find 0 information about meats done this way,. its entirely focused on things that 'flow'.https://cookedearthblog.com/fry/best-answer-how-much-longer-do-you-cook-in-a-glass-pan.htmlNot the best website.. it seems the different google search pages offer different opinions.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:32:26 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 05, 2022, 02:28:40 amI have no evidence to say, but I cannot think why it would make a difference.Cooking time depends on the temperature of the food, so once the glass is up to oven temperature the food will behave exactly the same.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:36:35 am
content: If you are roasting meat you set the oven temperature and either monitor the internal temperature of the meat with a thermometer, or cook for a really long time where the cut of meat requires it. I don't see metal or glass making any difference here.If you are baking bread or cakes where time and oven temperature is critical, I think I would stick with the traditional metal baking pan.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 03:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 05, 2022, 02:32:26 amWhile I agree that it likely makes zero difference with regards to energy savings, it certainly makes a difference in cooking behavior. Glass is a comparatively poor thermal conductor, so it heats slowly and retains heat longer. This means the contact area with the food will ramp up much more slowly, plus much more carryover cooking if left in the pan after removing from the oven. Whether these characteristics are good or bad depend on the dish.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 04:25:17 pm
content: Always remember thermodynamics, heat is transferred any of three ways - conduction, convection, radiation.Conduction is not much due to an oven's grille thin tubes.Radiation, a metal baking pan reflects off heat radiated by the heating elements. A glass pan allows it through though, I think this is the actual extra heat gain. Might be why a pizza stone is used verses flat aluminum sheet for cooking pizza. Even DIY reflow ovens people use shiny metal sheets and wonder why the heat transfer is poor. It's like a mirror.Convection is the primary heat transfer method, this is why convection ovens are faster and more even at cooking, circulating hot air.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 05:13:40 pm
content: Obviously metal pans should be coated (in one way or another) black. If not, they work decently in a steam oven only, and maybe just barely acceptably in forced convection (fan) oven.The square baking pans that come with the oven are black for a reason. I found some stainless steel baking pans that were designed to be used in a steam oven. Tried to use in a "normal" electric oven, and the foods just don't get nearly any heat from below and don't bake at all. I painted the pans black with temperature resistant black paint, only from the outer surface of course because the paint is not food grade and chips easily, but anyway that completely solved the problem, because the heat transfer from metal to food is by conduction.Classic way to achieve the black coating for carbon steel pans is to soak them in suitable type of fat and burn it, forming a natural and black non-stick surface. I'm sure someone else can describe the process better, but I have done it a few times.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 05:38:32 pm
content: well if you try to bake fries on a stainless polished baking sheet it increases the bake time by like 100%, even when on a elevated grate in a weak fan convection oven. A good time would be to try french fries in a glass dish.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 06:04:36 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on February 06, 2022, 05:13:40 pmYes, the word for this process is seasoning. Usually applied to woks and stove top pans, but I guess it could be applied to oven pans too.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 06:07:02 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 06, 2022, 03:23:56 pmThis is why I suggest not to use glass for bread or cakes, since it would totally mess up the cooking times.But for roasts, it is not something that would matter.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 06:08:39 pm
content: The brand name "Pyrex" was originally for borosilicate glass, which was sold by Corning to the laboratory market for chemical glassware and the consumer market for cookware. Borosilicate was developed around 1893 by Schott as a low expansion co-efficient glass material.Corning 7740 and Schott 8330 are current borosilicate products (with the same nominal composition) for technical uses.Corning exited the consumer market in 1998, spinning it off as "Corelle".Since then, other companies have licensed the trademark "Pyrex" or "pyrex", and some use it only for non-borosilicate tempered soda-lime glass cookware, which is probably cheaper.There are many claims that the non-borosilicate "pyrices" are more susceptible to thermal shock (seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrex)(H.L. Mencken claimed that the etymology of the trademark was not from the Greek for "fire", but due to an early product being a pie plate; I am dubious.)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 06:39:44 pm
content: This is the Pyrex ad I remember. I don't think tempered soda-lime glass could survive this.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 06:43:42 pm
content: Also, most glasses including borosilicate and soda-lime glasses, are fairly opaque in the mid and far IR spectrum, so unless your oven uses halogen elements (which emit a lot of near IR), clear glass has very little advantage for heat transfer over ceramic.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 06:45:36 pm
content: It appears that Pyrex products sold in Europe are still the real thing, and not the American fake product:https://pyrex.co.uk/collections/glass-dishes#:~:text=Pyrex%20dishes%20are%20made%20of%20glass%20but%20not%20just%20any%20glass%3B%20borosilicate%20tempered%20glass%20to%20be%20more%20exact.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 09:43:13 pm
content: Here's an illustration of the color difference between borosilicate glass (blue) and ordinary glass (clear):(All pieces are Pyrex branded, on the right from Europe, on the left from the USA.)