Help with capacitors (NICHICON I think) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:27:45 am
content: Hi guys,Having a little trouble working out what values these capacitors are..Some links on where I could buy these from would be much appreciatedEbay would doThanks

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 10:17:29 am
content: Do you want to change them? If yes, then don't do that. They fail very rarely and there is no electrolyte to dry out. These are conductive polymer capacitors. On the first photo Nichicon LF 820 uF, 2.5 Vhttp://products.nichicon.co.jp/en/pdf/XJA042/e-lf.pdfOthers obviously are 560uF 2.5V and 560uF 6.3V

author: Rog520
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 01:53:59 pm
content: Those are EIA coded values, so 56uF and 82uF.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 02:02:07 pm
content: No, they're 560 uF and 820uF.In this case, the short notation ( ## x 10^# ) is not used.For the ones marked with LF, you can download the datasheet and see there how to read the markings, at the bottom of the first page :ftp://helpedia.com/pub/temp/datasheets/capacitors/Nichicon/Polymer/e-lf.pdfAnyway, they're polymer capacitors, from a reliable and quality company, so it's unlikely they're causing any problems to the device installed on.

author: Rog520
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 02:16:58 pm
content: Whoops...my mistake!

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:47:42 pm
content: Thanks guys!The 820uf caps are broken, the leads on most are pulled out of the caps it seems.Just for testing could I try electrolytic caps? I don't think jaycar stock theseThank you

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 10:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: leham on March 29, 2015, 09:47:42 pmAre you sure they are pulled out, not just soldered in a such a way? Sometimes capacitors don't stand straight out of the factory. Was the graphics card mechanically damaged? Electrolytic capacitors have much higher ESR and much lower ripple current rating. If trying with them, you will need something with at least 2-3 times higher capacitance rating and they will fail very soon. Don't try to run games/stress tests for more than a few minutes if using LEW ESR electrolytics instead. I highly doubt that Jaycar stocks anything more or less decent of low ESR at all.BTW what is a defect? How this card does not work?

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 03:05:26 am
content: OMG!!!!!!! I FIXED IT MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAASo the previous owner (i bought the card off ebay) had broken off a decoupling? cap and took a trace with it, I patched up the trace and it boots.BTW the guy at jaycar gave me low esr 1000uf 10v caps, but I didn't end up using themO0I'm so happy thanks guys

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 11:33:13 am
content: Ok so quick update,The card is working fine in windows and OSX (ran a benchmark in OSX), under windows 64bit the card will hang the machine when I try to benchmark or run a game. The sound will just repeat what's in the buffer.. And both displays go black :/I'm installing the drivers in 32bit windows now and try that.Could this be a software issue or something to do with this missing cap?As I said I never replaced the 820's, could that be the issue?Thanks

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 11:39:19 am
content: Quote from: leham on March 30, 2015, 11:33:13 amI don't think so. What is the model of the card? What you put instead of the missing ceramic capacitor? Likely it was something with 10+ uF capacitance originally. The same value as C808 nearby (need to desolder and measure of course).

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 11:51:06 am
content: I don't know if you can see in the photo but the trace is pulled up off the board. I used some kaynar wire and re did the trace, basically it's as if only that capacitor is missing now..I don't think my multi meter can read caps it's only a crappy digitech qm1523Is putting any capacitor in there worse than none at all?? Haha silly question..

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 01:09:19 pm
content: Of course better to put it there, it will be relatively safe. Seem to be 0805 size. Put there something like 0805 size 10 uF MLCC 10V or 6.3V rated, or 4.7uF if if you cannot get 10 uF. Anyway it would be really silly to replace polymer capacitors before replacing this one.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 01:11:24 pm
content: If you have some dead motherboard, or hard drive. You can salvage some capacitor of the same size from there. Very likely it will be something with acceptable capacitance.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 08:07:06 pm
content: Thank youOh the card is a Gigabyte GV-N660OC-2GD (Nvidia gtx 660) by the way.I've got an old Pentium 4 motherboard I can pinch a cap from (From the underside of the board around the CPU area is probs the best bet right?), this is decoupling capacitor right? Whats the basic purpose of said use of capacitors?Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it..

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 01:18:28 pm
content: Quote from: leham on March 30, 2015, 08:07:06 pmYes it is. Providing a clean power, this one seem to be particularly for theRAMGPU IC.Under CPU area is OK.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 08:40:11 pm
content: so I tried a few different ceramic caps and I still have the same issue.under high loads, the card will lock the system up, could it just be that I'm unlucky and just haven't stumbled across the correct one yet?This would be easier if I had a good multimeter

author: ConnorGames
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 09:10:03 pm
content: I would guess that there is another problem if you have already tried a few caps. Make sure that the intact pad of the cap is still electrically connected, and has not broken any traces. It looks like it might have started to peel off the board. Also, just because it hasn't been said yet: make sure you have a sufficiently large, high quality PSU.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 11:03:58 pm
content: I'm using a 600w PSUSo I replaced the caps with the 1000uf low ESR ones, it ran the benchmark for about 5 mins (before it would crash after 10 seconds) the odd thing is, instead of the screen going black and the audio buffer looping. Display 1 went green and display 2 went grey, it even tried to comeback but needed up locking..I reset the machine and touched the caps to check, they where warm (the system was off for about 30 seconds)This is a good thing right? I changed the caps (for the wrong ones haha) and the fault changed..The power section of this card only has the 4 820uf caps populated from factory but I can fit up too 6, they are all connected to the same place as far as I can tell, when I get the correct replacements, would it be worth re-populating the unused parts (gigabyte have done the same with some of the ceramic ones on the same section of the Pcb)Thanks for all the help btw

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 11:12:06 pm
content: There are 600W PSUs which will barely output 400W at best, therefore just saying watts does not tell that much actually. Unless you have a meter to check the capacitors it is hard to tell if they are faulty. It could be faulty GPU or RAM as well. Changing the capacitors could be just changing something a little bit that the card becomes a bit more stable. You can try to reduce GPU and/or RAM clocks with MSI afterburner app.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 11:23:20 pm
content: Ok so I just under clocked the card and what do ya know! It passed the benchmark (still running as I type this)Power target = 46%Gpu clock = -549 MHz (700mhz)Memory = -471mhz (1.2ghz)Whilst messing around with the card, I did reflash the bios, stock it runs at 1000mhz with a boost clock of about 80 higher..Could I flash a stock bios to this? Remember this is a factory overclocked card.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 11:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: leham on March 31, 2015, 11:23:20 pmThat could be the issue. Quiet often overclocked cards degrade over time and no longer work stable on the overclocked frequencies. Flashing different bios can be dangerous. If this card have reference PCB, then you could try it. If it is non reference, then flash only Bios bios from the same non overclocked model. Check that new bios have the same manufacturer RAM chips listed. But be ready that card dies after flashing. To revive it, you will need a motherboard with integrated GPU or second PCI-E slot to insert another graphics card to be able to boot into DOS. Well, unless you have dual bios but that is common only on high end AMD cards

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 12:17:49 am
content: I actually have a universal programmer and thats how I flashed the card to begin withI made a dump of the original bios just in case, so I'll just flash that back on there, IIRC the bios's had different build numbers.So what happened is this:Card wasn't working (I had not found the busted trace yet)Desoldered the bios and whacked it into my programmer (I had read that people like to tweak these cards via the bios)Dumped the bios twiceDownloaded a newer build of techpowerup.comFlashed it..once I had the card working I tried using the gigabyte tool to update the bios, it reported I had an F30 bios (no such thing for this card)..messed around and managed to flash the latest gigabyte bios

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 01:14:35 am
content: Quote from: leham on April 01, 2015, 12:17:49 amMust cost few times more than your multimeter

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 01:17:05 am
content: But I don't understand from written, did you try to run it on original bios?

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 01:31:02 am
content: I just re flashed the bios that came with the card, still the same issueIf I run the card at the lowest clocks I can, it'll run fine (not super good frame rates though)I might try with a second Psu but I don't know if that'll fix the issue

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 12:43:13 pm
content: Fantastic updateSo I was messing around with the card and I noticed another ceramic cap had broken off the board.. In the power section :0 slapped a new one in (and fixed its torn trace).. I think it has something to do with the power management IC....Badda bing Badda BOOM it passed the benchmarkTWICE 60FPS at stock OC speedsPlayed some dying light (I've been dying to play this game) ahhh all is goodI ordered some new polymer caps and await their arrivalThanks for all the help guys you saved me $160 dollary doo's

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 02:31:39 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 29, 2015, 02:02:07 pmJust a note: To the OP, if you're replacing those caps with 560 uF and 820 uF .. you need to go here and check your dataThose are 56uF and 82 uF caps.. pretty small cap to be almost 1000uF.A designation of 561 and 821 on the tops would constitute values of 560uF and 820uFJust a FYI!http://nichicon-us.com/english/products/pdfs/e-lf.pdf

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 02:42:31 pm
content: Quote from: jlmoon on April 02, 2015, 02:31:39 pmThose are 2.5V caps, not 25V.Sorry, but they are 560uF and 820uF and the datasheet you posted backs that.

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 02:54:31 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 02, 2015, 02:42:31 pmGuess I am thinking a 561 would reflect a 560uF.. or 821 the same..With this numbering convention, are they leaving the 0 (3rd digit) off or the < 100 uF parts?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 02:56:00 pm
content: Quote from: jlmoon on April 02, 2015, 02:54:31 pmYou are indeed thinking that, but electrolytic caps are not often marked that way.They specify the value in uF, plain and simple. 1500uF parts would say.. 1500. 56uF would be 56.

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 03:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 02, 2015, 02:56:00 pmYes, do understand. Thank you for clearing that up. I was getting crossed up with the EIA 96, 3 digit numbering system and 10^exp valuesThank you