Opinion request RE: Fluke 87V - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 06:47:34 pm
content: Just wondering here, is the Fluke 87V an overrated has-been or is it worth it's price?Also, I one could get a very gently used (screen protector still on) 87VC for under $250, would that be worth it?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 07:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 06:47:34 pmIf you need a solid, basic DMM and are not price-sensitive or just prefer durable things I think it is fine. The hi-res thing is a bit weird, but I'm sure you'd get used to it in a few minutes. People whine about the "bang for buck", but if you divide by the expected lifetime that number looks better.Is that $250CAD or US? If US, you can get a brand-new domestic market lifetime-warranty version from TEquipement or Amazon right now for $440 or so. So you'd have to decide whether it is worth saving the difference and getting a used, non-warranty-eligible China version instead. I think I'd opt for new, it comes with nice test lead accessories as well.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 07:45:11 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 06:47:34 pmFluke is sort of overpriced, but it is a nice DMM. It looks fairly simple, has what is needed and will last forever.Another DMM to look at is Brymen, their price is lower, they are also very robust and safe, but they do not look as simple as Fluke.I have multiple DMM's from both brands and like both brands (Fluke 289 is sort of a love/hate relation).

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 07:49:59 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 03, 2025, 07:31:13 pmIt's $243 USD including shipping, and yes, it's from China.The only real reason I'm thinking of getting it is, I usually have the opportunity to do some high paying work for a friend doing industrial maintenance during shutdown. I can always borrow a meter off him, but I thought it would be better to show up with my own so I don't have to wait for a loaner.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 07:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: HKJ on May 03, 2025, 07:45:11 pmI have a Brymen BM786, but the guy I do this work for will only accept Fluke. He claims it's an insurance thing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 08:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 07:49:59 pmIf it's for some high paying work then get a new one.Depending on the work though, it might not be the best model. There may be a cheaper model like the 113 which is more suitable.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 08:45:53 pm
content: For electrical work where you don't need high accuracy the 87V is a very good meter. It has enough functions to do the job and is very reliable. If you have to have a Fluke then I wouldn't go for something lesser like the 1xx series. I have used the 113, 114, 116 and 117 the 87V is better. I have also used the 87V max and unless you need a tough meter I don't think I want that one. I have used the fancy 233 with remote display only to find out I have to replace the battery often. The 287 and 289 are better if you need higher accuracy and functions like logging, AC+DC etc.. otherwise those are slow to use and display is hard to read without backlight and also eat battteries. My favorite is the 189 but then I wouldn't risk getting it damage using at work. So if I go to work and do some industrial electrical troubleshooting it's the 87V I would take with me.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 09:03:04 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 03, 2025, 08:45:53 pmFluke 87 is much more complex than (eg.) the 113 and doesn't have Low-Z.Safety-wise: Unless IknowI'll be measuring amps then I'd prefer to be using a meter without it on high-energy installations. Even then I'd consider using a clamp instead.So no, the 87V might not be "better".

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 09:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2025, 09:03:04 pmIn fact I almost never used the 87V to measure current. For the electrical work there is very little need to measure low current. For higher current I always use a clamp meter (and except in an emergency I never used the clamp meter for anything else). I know you have never use the 113 because I thought too that it's kind of a neat little DMM that can do most basic things but since I have it. It really sucks. Using it is very confusing. Sometimes I measure the voltage of an AA and it shows nothing then I reverse the leads and it shows 1.3V or something like that. Fluke does say that it doesn't work at very low voltage but how low to make it's not working varies. I don't even know now. (I have to do a test sometimes, as I found out for the same measurement sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 09:27:09 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 07:49:59 pmSince you are getting it to satisfy that specific company requirement (kudos to Fluke marketing!) then that's another good reason to not get a used one from China. The meter might actually have an issue or the employer may look at it and think that it is fake or something, IDK. My opinion is that the warranty is worth something because they really stand behind it. I wouldn't get a smaller model even though I'd prefer using a 116 (has Low-Z, no amp jacks) because industrial may mean actual CAT IV environments. The 87V and steel-toe boots are sort of standards there.If you're really feeling likespendinginvesting a few bucks, get the Twist-Guard leads as well.https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/accessories/test-leads/fluke-tl175?srsltid=AfmBOoqcQfA5n4oOmUrMx7ytfl14WIJ6CXgvMBQOdyNRtb0FQ4qxj0Uu

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 09:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 03, 2025, 09:17:13 pmCorrect, it's not made for that job.Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 03, 2025, 09:17:13 pmBelieve Fluke.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 09:39:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2025, 09:03:04 pmThe only thing complex about the Fluke 87 is remembering the power-on options. For the vast majority of people the 113 is weird and pointless and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It must fulfill some special purpose but IDK what it is. The 116 has Low-Z, no amp-jacks and works like a normal meter. The only trap (which is marked clearly on the front if you look) is that the mVAC range is actually a DC coupled input so it cannot be used for ripple measurements.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 11:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 03, 2025, 07:31:13 pmHow much has the price of a new Fluke 87V gone up over the years? $440 doesn't actually seem too outrageous these days if you want/need the Fluke 87V name.On the other hand, a Keysight U1282A is around $800 these days. That seems a bit much. Back when I bought one several years ago, I actually bought two for closer to $500 each, but the deal was buy two and get a U1733C Handheld LCR Meter for free, and I figured around $333 each for all three was an OK deal.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 12:32:05 am
content: @BillyOany good meter once calibrated is good, fluke is no exception unless you go for the EX series "AKA the RED ones" designed for hazardous environmentsif your guy does not accept anything else than Fluke for insurance reasons he's a doofus, because once calibrated you know it's in specs, a fluke 87V is no better than some high end Brymens, Agilent / Keysight, Amprobe, Sanwa, Gossens or any other good brandFluke are way over rated as many others since covidYou DO a job for him, HE should help you get something good ... that's my point, compensation is neededsome of my Gossens are calibrated and are way better than Fluke, albeit some slow reads per secs ... and yep i paid a lot for them, overpriced tooFluke 83 85 87 are good, for me the 187 189 where the pinnacle of Fluke, all other low "ish" models in the 1xx series are MEH 6000 counts is ridiculous,unless you go in the esoteric models like 867 lollyeah the 287 289 is a love hate combo, but does well it's job

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 01:38:11 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2025, 09:29:35 pm

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 01:59:27 am
content: I bought the Fluke 87 in 1989 for $292.50. The price has increased 63% in 36 years I don't think it's excessive. There are worthwhile improvements from the original 87 and the current 87V.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 04:32:07 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 04, 2025, 01:38:11 amIt's good for "industrial maintenance".And it's less of a problem than not having Low-Z if that's your job.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 04:56:31 am
content: The Fluke 87 has one very annoying thing, it always defaults to AC current and you have to press the button to get to DC current every time you change to a current range. Which you sometimes do often moving from mA to uA and back.So decide for yourself how much that will annoy you.I've wanted to throw mine at the wall a few times, but there was no point. It's a Fluke and wouldn't care in the slightest at being thrown at a wall. Far more likely to damage the wall than the meter.And before someone comments, yes I know the reason why it defaults to AC current.You can politely $#$ right off. It should be a setting.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 05:43:36 am
content: If it must be a Fluke, then you should be asking yourself 'electrician' or 'electronics'.For an electrician, I like the Fluke 117. Not as pricey and still satisfies a typical electricians needs.For electronics, go for the Fluke 87V. It has additional capabilities for lower voltages and currents.I have both and if I'm doing home wiring or automotive it's the 117. If it's on the workbench I use the 87V. I don't think you'll go wrong with the 87V but if you don't need all the bells and whistles go with the 117 forgeneralelectrical work.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 05:46:58 am
content: Quote from: Psi on May 04, 2025, 04:56:31 amIt's not perfect. I don't think the perfect meter exists.Remember: The 87V was a step back to the 87III after corporations complained the the 87IV was too different for them.The 87IV was peak Fluke, not the 87V.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 05:51:05 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on May 04, 2025, 05:43:36 amHe said he has a Brymen 786 so he has "electronics" covered.The 117 only has a CAT III rating and has an amps socket. Both should disqualify it for "industrial" work (IMHO).

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 09:37:44 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 04, 2025, 04:32:07 amI feel very uncomfortable when I use low Z with 480VAC. It causes a spark when I connect the test probles. I don't have problem with ghost voltage (voltage induced by nearby wiring). I do need the low Z when testing solid state relay output but in that case I just make sure to have the load connected.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 09:46:34 am
content: Quote from: Psi on May 04, 2025, 04:56:31 amThe meter defauts to AC current does bother me but I never use the meter for low current measurement in an industrial environment. For high current I always use a clamp meter. On the bench playing at home with my electronics stuff I think the Brymen is better as the 87V doesn't have the accuracy.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 09:50:05 am
content: It's still a solid dependable meter, albeit pricey.The 20,000 count high resolution mode shows its 1980's roots in the age of 50,000/60,000 count meters.And it's actually physically big for a single display meter.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 10:08:23 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 07:52:00 pmProbably because with the flood of cheap DMMs with fake CAT ratings undermining faith in third party safety marks (UL, CE, CSA etc), people who don't know much about these things know one thing; the Fluke brand.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 10:35:01 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 04, 2025, 09:37:44 amItshouldbe scary!

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 11:14:13 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 04, 2025, 10:35:01 amI know that the meter automatically changes the impedance when there is sufficient current flow in the meter but inintially when the probes first touch the power there is sufficient current to cause a spark. I don't like that at all.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 11:32:22 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 06:47:34 pmAll the 87 I've seen and I have seen many of them are made in the USA is yours that comes from China made in the USA too?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 12:31:45 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 04, 2025, 04:32:07 amThere's a lot more to industrial maintenance than chasing broken wires. I have Low-Z, I like Low-Z, Low-Z is a friend of mine. But I wouldn't want Low-Z to be my ONLY option and in reality I don't use it all that much. Initial current on a 480VAC circuit can be over 100mA. Sparking is not appropriate in some environments and probably is a good way to start an arc-flash. If you must have Low-Z occasionally, there is the SV225 "Stray Voltage" adapter which is 1000V capable like the 87V. Oddly it is discontinued but you can still get them.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 09:46:58 pm
content: Hi all,I've decided not to go with the used unit from China. I will consider buying new. It's $650 CAD here, but I'd make that in a bit over half a day at these jobs. Basically they are plant shutdowns over the long weekends in July and August. We work 12 hrs a day for 3 days straight get well paid. Both electrical and electronic duties will be required. No CAT IV for me. There is only one other guy on his team, besides himself, that he will let near the CAT IV stuff.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 10:29:59 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 04, 2025, 09:46:58 pmYes I think it's a good investment as it does have good return on the investment. If you buy an equally good meter, cheaper but not a Fluke the people who hire you are not happy. And the customer is always right (even when they are wrong).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 11:04:11 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 03, 2025, 06:47:34 pmOh yes, the eternal question, discussed countless times already (search function)....I can try to shorten it.Fluke is a professional equipment supplier, and the Model 87 is practically the standard.It is well known in the industry, has all the certifications you could possibly need, and is virtually indestructible under normal circumstances.Is it worth the price, and is there anything comparable for less money?That's simply not something professionals are interested in.It's interesting for hobbyists, who are more likely to buy a Brymen for half the price with comparable features.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 11:31:55 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 04, 2025, 11:04:11 pmWell, that in itself is teh problem. When a topic gets so much attention, the search function becomes nearly useless. It returns pages and pages of hits that each need the reading of dozens of posts. Gleaming the information you need from all the chaff is neigh impossible.Quote from: Martin72 on May 04, 2025, 11:04:11 pmThank you.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 01:10:21 am
content: Of course, I have my classic video in case anyone hasn't seen it:

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 01:53:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 05, 2025, 01:10:21 amHave watched, but will give it a 2nd look.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 02:08:28 am
content: Meters......depends what you need and for years I was too tight to splash out on anything expensive and expensive means different for everyone.A customer needed a class set of the China only Fluke 15B so I got a couple more to have a warranty replacement and now use one of them as my goto for nearing 10yrs.At the time they were reasonable for this tightwad at just some 60USD ea and if any deeper features are required I pull out a DSO.As our 2 lads are getting into more involved stuff, each in vastly different trades, the old man scratched up enough coin to buy them each a Fluke for last Xmas, this time another China only Fluke 106.Already earned its keep for our larrykin in Perth identifying a dud starting cap on his irrigation pump.....although he did need to call me for an instructable on testing caps.....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 01:20:08 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 04, 2025, 09:46:58 pmThis is basically the conditions needed to buy a Fluke.Technical discussions don't matter here.

author: adam4521
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 07:10:13 pm
content: It does seem the warranty, calibration and provenance has value enough in OP scenario to buy a new one.For hobbyists, I would recommend considering buying used. There’s always a steady supply of 87V in various states of condition, buyers market, you don’t have to rush. Look at the screen, the case, the control dial, the test leads. I bought mine for £177 eight years ago, and I reckon the eBay sell price would be the same if I sold it now. The bang-for-buck calculation is quite distorted for these.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 07:42:06 pm
content: Quote from: adam4521 on May 05, 2025, 07:10:13 pmOr get a Brymen if it's for home use.Especially if you live in Europe where they're easier to get and Flukes are more expensive anyway.(I'm guessing US buyers will also be paying tariffs on Brymens now. I wonder how exempt Flukes are - AFAIK they're mostly just assembled in the USA from foreign parts, not really "Made in USA").

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 08:42:37 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 05, 2025, 07:42:06 pmDEfinitely a Brymen for hobby use. Even less than the FLuke used and much better specs.Quote from: Fungus on May 05, 2025, 07:42:06 pmThe tariff's only kick in over $800 currently. The orange Rump is smack talking about lowering it, but it will not go down to zero. They just do not have the staff to manage that.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 08:45:28 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 05, 2025, 08:42:37 pmBut you're in Canada and doesn't Canada have a tariff on US products?

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 08:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 05, 2025, 08:45:28 pmThere are a few retaliatory tariffs in place, but only on industrial stuff and some raw materials. Canada did not do blanket tariffs like an insane man would, they specifically targeted high volume products from red states.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 08:55:15 pm
content: QuoteIt could almost look like a Fluke 87...

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 08:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 05, 2025, 08:55:15 pmThe 25x counts is a dead give away though.

author: faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 09:12:11 pm
content: It is ONE for life time. I was really impress how rugged it is when ACCIDENTALLY closed car bonnet and 87V was under it. I use it every day.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 10:14:38 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 05, 2025, 08:57:51 pmWe use Fluke at work, but I have a BM869s at home.I now have enough bench multimeters, but if I needed another handheld meter, I would probably go for an 859s.I just like the design better; I don't need a huge display.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 10:18:54 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 05, 2025, 10:14:38 pmSee earlier message:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/opinion-request-re-fluke-87v/msg5902494/#msg5902494

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 11:01:00 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 05, 2025, 10:14:38 pmThe BM857s has the blackest numbers, simplest display, andalmostone function per selector position. Only Ohms/continuity is shared.All those fancy "dual display" meters are lower contrast and cluttered for most duties.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 01:51:41 am
content: Just an update. After some time and a few hundreds $$$ I have now TWO new Fluke handheld meters!Of course, there is the 87 V we've been discussing here. It was not cheap, but will pay for itself quickly.Then there is the 15B MAX. I noticed the 15B+ is available in NA for about $120. Yet the 15B MAX, which has a lot of improvements, is not available in NA. This was listed at under $100 on AliExpress - shipping included.Anyway, I had accumulated some bonus/refunds on AliE and wound up getting this for $25 additional. Couldn't resist. I probably won't keep it as I have a bunch of meters that spec much better, but I have a young nephew that could use it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 02:15:00 am
content: Yep, don't overlook these cheaper 15/17B models, good basic and dependable DMM's.Early 15/17B used the same PCB and the only difference was the button membrane where if you could source the 17B membrane, just drilling/cutting the additional 2 holes in the front cover and fitting it, you then had a 17B.Their other advantage was having internal trimmers for adjustment where the training school I supplied a class set to, would deliberately adjust the outliers to match the majority to the LSD.....can't have students argue about the LSD.My 15B has served me well for a decade or more.... despite being a China only model and ~$60 when I got it.

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 04:08:29 pm
content: The USA made Fluke DMMs have a lifetime warranty (10 years for the LCD, meter itself 7 years after the model is discontinued), which could make them better value than some lower cost meters. The Chinese made Fluke meters (113, 117 etc) do not have such a good warranty, only 3 years.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 04:16:16 pm
content: !0 years is not lifetime no matter how you want to spin it, unless you are a rabbit, but 10 years is a good warranty.

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 04:18:03 pm
content: The “lifetime” warranty is the wording from Fluke, not me.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 04:21:01 pm
content: Quote from: Solder_Junkie on May 21, 2025, 04:18:03 pmI didn't say it was.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 04:29:51 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 04:16:16 pmIDK why people struggle with this, but they are simply saying that the service lifetimeof the meteris defined by how long they are able to support it. How long they support it depends, among other things, on availability of the parts used to make it. Their warranty reflects their support policy which is 7 years after they stop making it or at least 10 years after you buy it. If they are able and willing they will produce and support the meter for longer than that. How long have they been making the 87V? The original buyers will get 30+ years of warranty coverage. I suspect you'll never see that meter both run out of warranty and then fail. But you can hope!

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 04:50:20 pm
content: Oh, I know what the warranty means, It's just the wording, to me anyway, comes of as a little misleading.Now, if they worded it more like you did, leaving out any mention of lifetime, I think that would be much better.However, there are other aspects of their warranty I don't like. For instance, it's non-transferrable. That's just kind of a slimy way for them to reduce their responsibility. Then the term 'unusual conditions", you've got to love that one. Without defining precisely what "usual conditions" are, it's just another easy out for them. Then there is not supporting the models intended for "high growth markets" if they are purchased or used outside those markets. They have no problem selling them to DigiKey, Home Depot, TEquipment, Mouser, ITM, Newark, etc.. for resale in NA, but they won't honor the warranties.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 05:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: Solder_Junkie on May 21, 2025, 04:08:29 pmNot when you can buy three or four other good meters for the same price.The "Chinese" flukes do just as well in robustness tests.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 08:51:10 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 04:50:20 pmWhen I sent the Fluke in for repair they nevery asked me for proof of purchase. So I don't know how they determine if I was the original purchaser.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 08:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 21, 2025, 08:51:10 pmDid you register it?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:51:07 pm
content: Fluke didn't ask me for proof of purchase either.Quality of support is going to vary by country. Here in the US I've personally found Keysight, Fluke and UEi to have great support.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 02:34:58 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 08:52:56 pmNo! I have sent in several units our company bought, my own unit, a unit belonged to fellow worker all were not registered. Even the 116 which is warranted for only 1 year they just check the manufacturing date and they exchange for a new one. They don't fix the 11x series.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 03:05:53 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 22, 2025, 02:34:58 amInteresting. I wonder if it would be different for a lowly hobbyist. Maybe not.I look at this like I'd look at a spec sheet. I try not to assume I'll get better than the published minimum specification. Usually you do, but you can't go ahead and design a heart-lung machine based on "typical" specs. Fluke clearly state the warranty isNOTtransferrable, so that's what you have to go by. If my 87V fails, I'll get to see, but at 68 YO, I can't see that mattering much. It will probably get to dance on my grave.

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 10:16:00 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 22, 2025, 03:05:53 amYou will probably be OK. My Fluke 177 came with the TL175 "twist guard" leads... after a few months the silicon outer on one lead split, exposing the inner white insulation. I contacted the UK Fluke dealer my meter came from and they refused to replace them under warranty, saying leads were not covered by the warranty. I contacted Fluke for clarification and they told the UK dealer to replace the leads free of charge and with no postage cost to me either. The leads clearly had a manufacturing defect, so from a warranty point of view it was straightforward, they needed free replacement.Clearly test leads are not going to be covered by a "lifetime" warranty as they are subject to wear and tear, but it was good that Fluke assisted a mere hobby user.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 06:11:43 pm
content: My original Fluke 87 (the first version) lasted only 12 years. It had problem with the display twice. First time they fixed it under warranty. Second time they said they can't fix it any more and offered me $100 toward the 189. I had the 189 for over 20 years now and it had the problem with high ohms. I gave it a soak in alcohol and fixed it.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 07:03:52 pm
content: Hello,I used many multimeters since 90ties from various brands.Friend of mine has 87V on his desk - been using it past 20 years+ almost daily for example.Nobody here can assure you that this particular unit you can get will not fail in some short time but Fluke has a very good chance to work for you for many years.Also a lot depends from how it was used and stored... Need to keep in mind that things we wish to last longer tend to break up fasterAbout warranty repair experiences everything depends from service representative. Anyway if repaired FOC or paid - after it should serve for another period of time so I cannot say it is not worth it.My Sanwa PC5000a accompanied me for last 15 years approx - I find it a bit more to my liking than Fluke ones (it was not a money matter).Some of my friends that purchased same model later damaged or got failed ones after few years and complained on it - it is all about how you treat it.There are other things to consider:- do you do measurements requiring it to be "fluke"?- do you really need some repeatability on this level for what you do?- what else can you get to make your electronics lab better using those money?As it was pointed out by others you can get a nice accurate DMM for less than this (or fancy new Brymen model for example in that money or less I think).If you really want it -> go for it.But sometimes it is better to keep money and get a decent lab DMM later that will outshine this one on every count (except mobility and power consumption hehe)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 07:42:13 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on May 21, 2025, 10:51:07 pmWe need a thread of tales of Fluke support outside the USA.I don't believe it's anywhere near as good.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 08:26:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 22, 2025, 07:42:13 pmI don't believe your post adds anything meaningful to the conversation.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 09:00:25 am
content: Well, I can tell you that in the UK, Fluke won't sell parts to anyone except their "authorised dealers". I haven't yet tried an RMA as I've had no cause, but the parts restriction is annoying, as they recommended a company that I know to be, shall we say, less than optimally truthful.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 03:05:14 pm
content: but should repair it for youwith metrology equipment it goes like this (imagine you are a manufacturer):- you sold some meter time ago- it failed and owner wants to repair it himself- you can provide parts (and even know how - usually restricted cal procedures)but ordinary user may not have access to any of fancy equipment needed for repair and later necessary calibration (even "standards" for certain values are pricey)also even with such equipment proper usage of it is another matter hehso after repair even with original parts the meter will most probably not be as good as repaired by them- then after sharing all most probably outcome is bad opinion that you still did not provided enough...This is the reason why they do it this wayedit:regarding service representative yep sometimes it takes lot of effort to get such equipment to proper technician

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 04:07:58 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on May 23, 2025, 08:26:40 amThe person who started this threaddoesn'tlive in the USA and "warranty" is being offered as a reason to pay Fluke prices.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2025, 11:08:16 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 23, 2025, 03:05:14 pmThat remains to be seenQuote from: kmoonwalker on May 23, 2025, 03:05:14 pmA Fluke 87V is hardly in the metrology class, and the parts I wanted are simply the top shell, button membrane, and battery door, as they are showing their age

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2025, 12:08:58 pm
content: well if you do not like distributor there you can always try ours (thou I dunno about tariffs to UK):https://anmar-pl.com/produkt/pokrywa-baterii-83v-85v-87iii-87v-88v-787/

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2025, 08:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 23, 2025, 03:05:14 pmThis isn't a general corporate policy as Fluke (in the USA) will sell at least some parts for even their bench meters and their calibration procedures are all published. They don't provide board-level components or schematics any more, but short of that they don't have any objections to aftermarket repair. Whatever is going on outside the USA likely has to do with business arrangements or regulations in that particular location.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2025, 08:20:23 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 24, 2025, 11:08:16 amThose three parts are all available on eBay. The prices are a bit stiff but IDK that they're more than directly from Fluke.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 02:12:23 am
content: Not a critique, but just an observation. Now that I'm a Fluke handheld owner (owned bench meters for years) I've been doing a little research. I find it a little odd that a US company, renowned and accepted by industry and government agencies alike, does not seek UL certification very often. I may be mistaken, but it seems the only UL certified meters are those accepted by the US military. The rest seem to have CSA as their top certification. If I'm not mistaken, most Brymen meters are both UL and CSA certified. This is unexpected, not that there is anything wrong with CSA certification.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 02:17:34 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 24, 2025, 08:17:46 pmBut strange things are going on in the US too. Like supplying the largest retailers with off market products despite vowing inBOLD CAPITALIZED TYPEFACE THAT THEY WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTIES.QuoteWhat is going on there?BTW, this is a bit of a critique.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 03:24:18 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 25, 2025, 02:17:34 amI think they meant the grey market stuff. However, I really don't quite understand the grey market good.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 03:31:21 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 25, 2025, 03:24:18 amin this case the grey market would be anything outside the far east.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 04:25:59 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 25, 2025, 02:17:34 amChina models only and the western buyer need purchase at their own risk......the ~20 we've sourced haven't given any issues.....and you can get them for a much better price than in the west.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 04:26:02 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 25, 2025, 02:12:23 amhttps://www.c3controls.com/white-paper/csa-vs-ul-certification/

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 04:30:44 am
content: as strange as it may be I seen situations that customer demanded UL (but on area of fire hazard and electrocution part) instead of CSA and for things that well were not posing any such threat and were not ATEX class anyhow - but as they say "our client our lord" and if they really wanna pay extra how can we denyI think that Brymen as not from US/Canada done both certifications just to be on safe side in case of troubles. Fluke is local for that market so they are up to date with regulations etc and doing bare minimum they need.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 05:12:29 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 25, 2025, 04:25:59 amI have seen a few and all were identical to ones sold here via normal distribution as far as we were able to tell with teardownThou lately there is whole lot of Keithley meters from there on ebay (brand new supposedly) but friend got a fake DMM7510 in Keithley alike chassis. Other one got 6500 which was perhaps not new but passed calibration in local lab

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 07:01:26 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 25, 2025, 02:17:34 amMy guess is that they are changing their policies regarding these entry-level meters and haven't fully updated their website info. I can go to fluke.com and order a 15B+ for $129.99 directly from Fluke US website to be delivered (presumably to a US address--I'm not in the US right now but I have a VPN connected to a California location). It would be quite odd if Fluke would sell you a grey market meter directly and then disclaim any warranty.Regarding your UL/CSA question, I believe CSA is accepted worldwide whereas UL is US-only. Also, I've heard UL doesn't necessarily have a sterling reputation among it's actual users despite it's name-brand recognition. I wouldn't consider this to be particularly important unless I see Fluke's internal quality and safety standards slipping.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 09:47:38 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 25, 2025, 02:17:34 amFluke have been making meters targetted specifically to the asia pacific market since their first Chinese made meter, the Fluke 19.It was only sold in Australia (through Dick Smith) and within asia, but also briefly in the US under the Agilent 977A branding.I think it's only fairly recently you've been abel to buy the low end Chinese Fluke direct from Fluke in the US. They weren't even on their website a couple of years ago.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 09:33:46 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 24, 2025, 08:20:23 pmI'm more concerned that any part you find on eBay, regardless of price, will likely be counterfeit

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 10:53:49 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 26, 2025, 09:33:46 amLook at their history and reputation, that's what it's for.There's some sellers on there who obviously pull Fluke meters apart and sell them as parts.If you're that concerned then buy a new meter and sell yours. You probably won't lose much compared to the time/money spent seeking out replacement parts.Or... just accept that the marks are "patina" and embrace them.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 01:56:54 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 26, 2025, 09:33:46 amMost of those kinds of parts on eBay are legitimate. You can get nearly twice a much for a 87V if you part it out. But if the parts fit, who cares? What he's looking for are some bits of plastic. It's not like he's replacing the circuit board.I'd also like to know how you differentiate between aftermarket parts and counterfeit?

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 02:15:16 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 26, 2025, 09:33:46 amlink I provided is for official Fluke service in Poland so they should have original ones

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 04:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 26, 2025, 09:33:46 amIf those parts are counterfeit then there must be a lot of people looking for them. Making a few of those top shells, button membrances or battery doors would be expensive. You have to be able to sell a lot of them to make money.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 12:33:02 pm
content: If you can, ditch the Fluke 15B Max for the Fluke 117, just for non contact voltage and LoZ. I got the US made one. There is no real reason with the 87V and 117 to hold onto anything less, especially non fluke.The top series models prior to that are the 8060A, 27/FM, 77, 112. If you were to aim higher than the 87V there are specific IP and safety rated models, 189 (discontinued) and the 289. The 789 process meter as well if you can't mock up it's features another way. Then it's scopemeters unless you need some specific unique feature.The Brymen 869s is a surrogate for the 189/289 as they are a bit dated. But the 87V is the standard, anything less than that onsite looks very consumer level.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 04:51:01 pm
content: The fire alarm tester where I work (Generic Northern England Council) needs a DMM for measuring the batteries in panels, float voltage, charge and load current etc. The maintenance manager prefers to buy him a new cheapest-on-the-shelf-at-the-wholesaler every year, rather than pay to have one calibratedWhen I cover for him, I use my 87V

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 08:35:50 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 28, 2025, 04:51:01 pmThe "cheapest-on-the-shelf-at-the-wholesaler" model comes with a certificate of calibration with a one-year (or more) away expiration date?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 05:41:48 am
content: Effectively, yes. Not sure how much credence I'd give to such a printed slip of paper, given it will just be a "certificate of conformity" rather than anything with actual data.Brand wise, we're talking K(Eww)tech, TIS, Di(e)Log, that sort of thing. The Kewtech fully automatic (chooses VDC, VAC, Ω itself) he was given is the worst piece of garbage I've ever seen. It would read 20% under on a 12V battery, which apparently was "within spec". Absolute shite

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 06:08:21 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 29, 2025, 05:41:48 amThis is a kind of situation when they call you in to check something mentioning that we have all necessary equipment for you on site but you still pack few things including your own multimeter.While there you take thir equipment and someone supervising you is praising look how good equipment we have, installation is running splendid just tis small issue here happens from time to time... Ok you are thinking lets check it with dmm and on 24V psu output you see almost 30 (their super tester shown 24,5) and some not well designed acquisition system from manufacturer whom I better not mention is runnin an internal clock just lil bit faster than it should be so all indications in feedback from control loop are off and machine is doing unexpected corrections - but yep our system works splendid... So why I was called in if it works?

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 10:51:36 am
content: Quote from: Shock on May 28, 2025, 12:33:02 pmDid Fluke make the 117 in the US?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 11:36:39 am
content: I believe so originally, but they are older white backlit models. The blue backlit ones were def Chinese and just say designed in USA. Then there is the 117C. Apparently they are made in different countries now which makes sense due to supply chain problems back in 2020.Brought my 117 mint used for ~$50 with case in 2018. Was a bargain, and aside from using it mainly for some electronics and LoZ (provides a quick and dirty load and rcd test) I found a home wiring fault several years ago.Used prices have gone up considerably as with new people to the hobby and general desirability of a good meter. I picked up a new old stock 70's series Fluke for $10 a few years back. There was a brief glitch in the matrix that allowed me to buy 5 Flukes for $50 in the US so I capitalized on that as well.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 11:56:08 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 29, 2025, 05:41:48 amWith regard to those ultra-cheap meters, I've never seen them include any actual certificate of conformity (which always includes a test date) let alone any calibration cert nor any reference to a time period (or other conditions for that matter) where the specifications were guaranteed to be valid. There is no reasonable circumstance where calibration or safety certification is required where I'd imagine that simply having one of these meters plus a receipt less than one year old would suffice to meet any regulation or requirement. Anyone who goes along with that idea is exhibiting complete shit-for-brains thinking. But I'm sure that is common. If anyone has a certificate of any sort from one of those bottom-of-the-barrel models I'd like to see it!Typical "Brand B" products like BK Precision, Siglent, etc actually at least put a smidge of thought into this and they have explicit 1-year specs, a certificate of conformity that usually includes a test date and conditions and then the statement about still being OK for a full year after sitting in a box for up to six months. But "Brand D/E/F" meters are competely clueless.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 12:08:30 pm
content: I first owned a Japanese analog multimeter (forget the brand) in the 70's. I always thought it was kind of cheap but looking back at all the rubbish out there now I realize it was likely the best in the store at the time.My first used Fluke in the 80s and first used the 87 in the early 90s. My primary meter at work everyday was a 77.So I'm getting over 40 years deep at this point. But its nice to pickup up what were sometimes unjustifiably expensive items in the past, clean them up with a little tlc and find them still in cal.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 08:20:56 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 29, 2025, 11:56:08 amMy cheapest, 11 year old $9 DMM has such information and a production or test date on the back of the unit (2/14, see image 2).Quote from: manualThe specified accuracy is pretty poor (1.5%/2.5%).However, the device still measures much more accurately even after more than 10 years.So it is still perfectly usable.I don't know what the point of this accuracy “guarantee” is.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 10:08:59 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 29, 2025, 08:20:56 pmYou would be surprised but I had used for many years my fathers Voltcraft M-4650 CR (I think it was made by Metex) and this meter is still working pretty decent so all depends from what is inside the one you have. From my experience some well designed but supposedly low digits meters tend to keep the accuracy pretty well given battery is good.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 01:50:05 am
content: I don't know why people are surprised that cheap, digitally-calibrated meters are accurate.There's so few parts in these meters that basically there's nothing to drift or go out of spec. It's just a chip and a few passives. No trimmers or electrolytics.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 02:02:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 30, 2025, 01:50:05 amit is because they are cheap and we are used to have that as disadvantage so it really needs to be a bad bad design for this to measure bad especially considering how components went ahead with quality over last decades so they do not even have big chance of purchasing something of worse quality from usual wholesellers like it was in 90ties

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 05:48:50 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 29, 2025, 08:20:56 pmI'm not sure any of that is sufficient for any given compliance requirement, but it certainly is more than you get from the total crap products. I suppose we could call Voltcraft a "Brand C" product.QuoteThe manufacturer specs are used to determine required calibration intervals and tolerances in those applications that require it. Many such situations are pretty poorly thought through and just have some sort of blanket requirement for calibration. IOW, you have to state a specification but it doesn't really matter what it is.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 07:13:17 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 30, 2025, 01:50:05 amI'm not particularly surprised by that.But if they write in the manual that the rather poor specifications are only guaranteed for one year, you might think that after 10 years this meter is completely inaccurate. But it's not.bdunham7 has given an explanation for this.So this “guarantee” is not very meaningful in practice.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 07:32:53 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 30, 2025, 07:13:17 am...it means their marketing department wants stupid people to buy a new meter every 12 months.Calibrations are mostly ass-covering paper. You'll soon figure out when your meter's off just by using it, and any meter can suffer an incident on the way back from the calibration center.Another topic is meter robustness and how likely it is to survive that "incident" (or 12 months of dirt and hard use).Cue Joe Smith.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 08:50:02 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 30, 2025, 07:32:53 amOK.On the other hand, I wonder why bdunham7 expects such a specification for this device category at all and why Voltcraft provides one. After all, they write a date on it, which has an influence on the shelf life, for example.I haven't seen anything like this with Zoyi, Aneng, Uni-T, but I haven't seen any deviations after years either.I can understand the desire for such specs with laboratory devices where we are talking about 0.005% accuracy or something like that. I would like to know that too.But a $9 device will probably hold 1.5% until it falls apart.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 03:41:52 pm
content: I cannot remember a DMM ever going out of calibration unless it was damaged. I bought that Micronta new in 1980. It's 45 years old.I think calibration of DMMs is continued for one of two reasons:1) A revenue stream for those that do calibrations.2) For legal reasons.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 05:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 29, 2025, 11:56:08 amI have not paid any attention to the supplied paperwork but have saved all the materials for any of the meters I kept after evaluating them. How do you define bottom or the barrel? Price? Brand? Age? How electrically robust it is?For example, my Fluke 101 (<$50) and 17B+ both came with a cert. My Amprobe AM510 did not come with a cert.My UNI-T UT181A I suspect came with a cert but in Chinese and so I can't verify what it states. It does have the mfg date. My UT61E and 210 did not.The last U1282A Keysight meter (Now $800) that I tested and damaged with a low level transient came with a cert but no data. Similar to Dave's 121GW. Compare that with that $120 CEM meter that came with calibration data. None of these meters are very robust.I restored a mid 70s Tachikawa IBM Model 200C analog handheld meter that came with hand written data, signed by the person who tested it.https://youtu.be/2H6YKvnOQyw?t=91

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 05:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 30, 2025, 01:50:05 amFor the most part, I tend agree with you.During testing, I have seen several meters that were damaged but not to the point where they will not power up and display data. In some of these cases, the meters will read incorrectly. Typically a sign that one of the high speed clamps was damaged.There are people who like to explore their meters and find hidden functions. They may stumble into the menus used to align the meter. Maybe they bought one of those cheap standards and find documents on-line for their meter and they purposely set out to adjust their meter to "improve" it's accuracy. No trimmers doesn't suggest these people can't mess things up.Shown is my original 9yr old Brymen BM869s which was damages/repaired but not realigned. Sitting next to the brand new Brymen BM788BT. Also shown is the Brymen BM786 which I modified to a BM787BT. As part of the modifications, I had to realign the meter using my HP34401A (very old and never aligned) for a reference. These meters track very close.https://youtu.be/Q7tcg8RsXSo?t=837

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 08:32:45 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 30, 2025, 05:12:27 pmFor me, my main area of concern is the willingness of the maintenance manager to have the employee use below-par instruments with questionable CAT ratings, on circuits and in configurations which might come close to needing a genuine CAT rating if something goes wrong.For context, I'm talking about the current measurement scenario. Most panels don't have "dangerously" large batteries in them, but some do have extended battery packs which will be 2x 38Ah SLA (in series) or thereabouts. A short on these can produce over 700A, afaik beyond the breaking capacity of 5x20mm and 6x32mm fuses, even ceramic ones (none of these cheap meters have proper 10x38mm cartridge or DMM fuses).That's not even mentioning the emergency lighting central battery units (which are fortunately getting fewer in number), which can have 48V or even 108V batteries, and easily over 100Ah for some of them. Those are not normally load tested beyond seeing that the battery stands up for the required 3 hours, but still, probing around in the battery cab to measure battery and cell voltages (some are individual Plante cell arrays) is a risky thing.For further context, although the maintenance manager is a qualified electrician with decades of experience (allegedly was shit on the tools, but that's before my time), I don't think he understands the risks of battery systems (in my experience a common failing in "normal" sparkies), and the employee with the tools in his hands isn't qualified, though I have done my best to make him aware of the dangers, and he does listen, but I'm not sure he fully understands.He does recognise shitty DMMs when he's given them to use, though.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 12:38:59 pm
content: Use the UT210A clamp if you want to measure current. It will measure higher than the meters will anyway and there is no need to break into the circuit. No cert, most likely accurate enough for the work you are describing.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 07:32:26 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO I bought that Micronta new in 1980. It's 45 years old.[/quote

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 01:39:38 am
content: Quote from: BillyOQuote from: BILLPOD on May 31, 2025, 07:32:26 pmThat's too bad. These meters had/have one of the best unlit displays I have ever seen. Short of total darkness, they had no need of a backlight. I can't understand why they cannot make LCD displays like this had/has anymore.It wasn't cheap, coming in at $80US back then. That's pretty much the equivalent of a Brymen BM869 or a Fluke 117 these days.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 02:10:10 am
content: they certainly can but they want to put color lcd inside everything nowadays... or they simply cheapskateit is similar situation to old lcd screen in my timex watch from 90ties that has much better visibility than most of new smartbands, etc

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 08:06:07 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 31, 2025, 12:38:59 pmSadly no good; resolution needs to be 100uA or better as on smaller systems the currents can be in the range a few tens of milliamps or less, and there's a need for a certain amount of accuracy for the duration calculation. Clamps that can measure accurately that low are a bit more expensive and as I've said, the management here are masters at penny pinching, often going so far as to spend a pound (dollar) to save a penny (cent).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 11:37:16 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 01, 2025, 02:10:10 amDisplays with dot-matrix and a lot of information are often multiplexed so less segments/dots on the display usually means better contrast.Cheapo DT830 meters usually have unbelievable contrast compared to expensive Flukes.My Brymen BM857, too. Way more contrasty than those fancy dual-display information-overloaded Meters.The dot-matrix Fluke 289 is a really expensive meter that's famous for low contrast.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 02:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 31, 2025, 08:32:45 amNot that I approve of improperly rated junk, but I'll point out that it is actually almost impossible to make a fuse that won't interrupt large currents at <32V, even DC. Actual interrupt capability is HIGHLY dependent on voltage and even a 5x20 10A glass fuse can probably interrupt an available fault current of a million amps at 24VDC. Obviously part of that reason for that is that the actual fault current through the fuse is never going to reach a million amps--or likely even a thousand--so "available fault current" has to be more carefully evaluated at low voltages. So nobody is going to be blasted by fuse failures on your battery systems. But I can only state that from experience and general knowledge, actual fuse datasheets tend to avoid the subject entirely except for certain automotive-specific styles.The term "bottom of the barrel" is like obscenity, I can't define it but I know it when I see it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 03:58:27 pm
content: Yep. 32V cannot create an arc flash event no matter how many amps are available.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 04:21:34 pm
content: QuoteQuote from: bdunham7 on June 01, 2025, 02:51:19 pmMaybe any meter without a cert or without calibration data?Even the free meters from Harbor Freight are on par with my first Fluke DMM.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 05:45:26 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 01, 2025, 04:21:34 pmThat won't work as a definition. When you buy Fluke meters these days you have to pay extra for the NIST Traceable cal cert and data. It seems on some models you can get them without any NIST cert or data, with cert only and with both cert and data. I opted for no NIST cal cert/data when I got my new 87V to save myself $200US!! Is it bottom of the barrel?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 06:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on June 01, 2025, 05:45:26 pmIt's how YOU define it. Personally, there are products available that are a much better suited for my current use than the 87V. As far as the meters accuracy, and traceable proof, for home I could care less.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 06:29:53 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 01, 2025, 06:23:56 pmMe too. This I got to access a particularly lucrative work opportunity.Question for the Fluke aficionados here. I noticed that the 83V is significantly more expensive ($75) than the 87V despite offering much less. Any guess as to why that would be?

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 06:51:15 pm
content: I think this is probably one of the situations Dave talks about in his ‘why are Flukes so expensive?’ video (): organizations have the 83V in their procedure manuals or it’s on an “approved requisition” list. So it’s a path of least resistance option for them.Just a guess…

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 07:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on June 01, 2025, 06:29:53 pmBean counting!I don't know the exact target demographic for average-responding meters but I suspect there's a few huge corporations that insist on buying themat any price.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 07:24:28 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 30, 2025, 08:50:02 amThe issue was that there was/is apparently a requirement for a meter that is "in calibration" and the idea that one can just buy a new meter every year instead of getting the calibration service. I don't "expect" anything with a $9 meter, but I'm pointing out that absent at least a manufacturers list of specifications and statement of conformity therewith, buying a new meter annually isn't a very logical solution. IOW, it only makes sense if you don't think it through.I've seen cheap meters--and even expensive ones--that were severely off without appearing to be broken or not operating properly. IOW the only sign of trouble was a significant reading error. But I suppose the majority of them don't fail that way.,

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 07:34:15 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on June 01, 2025, 05:45:26 pmI believe you always get a manufacturer's certificate of conformity which for most 87V (or any handheld) is going to be sufficient for the first year for most users that have calibration requirements. The other options are for users that absolutely need ISO17025 or whatever other standards are offered. The options for a new meter are a bit different because there really isn't any as-found data so the lowest option will actually never include data. When recalibrating, even the lowest no-data option provides OOT (out of tolerance) data if the meter fails the performance test on the way in.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 08:13:20 pm
content: Just for basic electrical work, needs to be a Fluke brand and have a cert. Plus save money by buying new rather than cal. Seems like the 101 would fit this. I bet the cost to cal the 101 in the US would be 2-3X the cost of a new one.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 08:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 01, 2025, 11:37:16 amSome how someone in the other thread said that the display of the 289 is good contrast compared to the 117. He showed pictures but pictures don't do justice as i can make the display looks very nice in picture. I have the 45 with the last 3 digits very dim but in pictures I can make all 5 digits look equally bright.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 02:57:11 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on June 01, 2025, 08:40:23 pmI can't comment on the 117 but there's entire threads about 289 contrast:eg.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/annoyed-with-the-fluke-289/

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 05:12:45 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on June 01, 2025, 02:51:19 pmAnd at 120-130VDC?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 07:42:07 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 02, 2025, 05:12:45 amIt's going to depend on source impedance and available amps. Voltage alone won't do it.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 04:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 02, 2025, 07:42:07 amQuote from: AVGresponding on May 31, 2025, 08:32:45 amThese things are a mix of Plante cell arrays, and various AGM/SLA types.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 05:38:18 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 02, 2025, 05:12:45 amMuch sparklier? IDK, I've no experience with intermediate voltages like that at very high currents. I think some 6x32 ceramic fuses are actually rated for that, but cheapo 5x20 10A fuse has a fair bit of metal in it to vaporize. If you've seen that Styro Pyro video with the 100 car batteries, my idea was to connect them in series rather than parallel--that would be interesting. Unfortunately I don't have 10 car batteries to string together nor do I want to be covered in molten lead.Just as an example of the voltage dependence of current interrupts, one particular model of Littelfuse 5x20 fuse ("medium action") is rated for 10kA at 125VAC but only 35A at 250VAC. Speed matters as well, DMM fuses are 1000VDC or AC, they interrupt in less than a half-cycle so there's no chance for it to even know which it has been subjected to.