What make DMM so expensive - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 12:59:39 pm
content: Is decent quality DMM is overpriced? (fluke,Agilent,..)why some DMM more expensive than entry level Osciloscope?

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 01:36:23 pm
content: Quote from: han on January 15, 2014, 12:59:39 pmDMM's deal with precision and high voltage/current, a cheap scope does not.

author: mortos360
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 01:44:51 pm
content: I would really like to know the parts value in a good DMM compared to the price… is there a link to somebody who analysed that?now, I am not telling that good DMMs are overpriced.. I am just curious about what the actual parts value is, compared to the selling price.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 01:47:57 pm
content: The fluke and Agilent dmms seem to be overpriced for what they are you can get a perfectly decent dmm for a significantly lower priced. Whith fluke and Agilent It seems you are paying for the brand and not the electronics it is like the Agilent scopes wher you can get a an equal scope or better for less money.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 01:52:26 pm
content: Could you link which two devices are you comparing? Comparing the low end of one type of device to the high end of one other type of device doesn't really make sense. The priciest scope there is costs around 450 000 USD... which tells us absolutely nothing about how much the best DMM should cost.Yes, it is true that high end DMMs are pricey, but, well, there's a lot of tech, time and good material that goes into them. They generally have a lot of nice features as well. Also, certification, testing, calibration play a role in the price. Also, you're paying for the brand - not so much the logo, but rather for the fact that there's a good chance that they won't fail soon and that they are reliable. And yeah, they might be overpriced and you might get the same parameters more cheaply somewhere else.QuoteHmm, that's a VERY difficult question. Some meters use custom parts, some companies have special deals/prices (a price at, say, farnell can easily be 2-3+ times as high as the company buys them), custom mechanics...

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 02:00:29 pm
content: There are so many scopes I could compare but the best one is the DSO1052B for £335 and the rigol ds1052e for £215

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 02:00:56 pm
content: Quote from: electronics man on January 15, 2014, 01:47:57 pmWith the same reliability and support?These are professional tools. The price is only one factor and probably not a very important one.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 02:04:03 pm
content: Don't laugh ;-) but I'm trying to make a DMM at the moment as a hobby challenge, but good components don't come cheap, and there is a surprisingly large amount of work that will go into making one.

author: arcom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 02:08:52 pm
content: You cannot expect a selling price to be just a bit above the parts price because you have to calculate the R&D costs and all other expenses that are involved in product's development.Everything costs as much as the market/consumer is willing to pay for it.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 02:19:44 pm
content: Thes things are just mostly for professionals hobbiests don't need to touch them they are a waste of mony as you ccan get a decent cheaper one that will serve you well. I don't think fluke and Agilent has opened up to the hobiest maket yet. It would be nice if the could produce a dmm that costs about£100 it doesn't need to be as good as there other products I just think they could do very well out of it and I would defiantly get one. I feel they are missing out on a massive market.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 02:29:10 pm
content: If you had the choice of selling one $450,000 scope that no-one else could compete with, or 4500 $100 DMMs that would be copied and sold by assorted others before you started selling them, which would you chose?Companies exist to make money and there's a lot less competition at the top of the T&M game than there is at the bottom.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 03:41:11 pm
content: If you watch a few of Dave's reviews of DMMs, you'll see the difference. Watch the $50 shoot out review, then watch a teardown of the Agilent or Fluke meters. Take notice of some of Dave's comments about the blast resistance of the cases, and the use of HRC fuses.If you're working on mains (line voltage) systems, then you really should consider a high quality device.I feel that one of the posters on this thread may have given very bad advice. You should look at your needs and determine what type of DMM fits.Lightages and others have previously suggested some less expensive, solidly built DMMs from UNI-T, etc.

author: cio74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 03:50:56 pm
content: Accuracy?I have played yesterday with Agilent 34461A, Fluke 289, Unit-T UT61E and Standard ST9929.I have dropped the last two after 3 micro amps measurements, both of them not even close to the real measurement while both Fluke and Agilent were fighting with 2 digits after decimal point accuracy.Overpriced? Could be, Agilent is 20 times the price of UNIT UT61E, Fluke 289 nearly there here in the UK.I think in the end it's how much you need them to perform, for hobby purposes and low voltage almost any will do just fine.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 03:53:02 pm
content: When it comes to commodity products like DMM and also its not monopolized or the business is highly competitive, usually the money never lies.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 04:17:13 pm
content: A key reason is low volume and to recoup costs. T&M is a smaller market measured in 50k+ units, versus millions for consumer goods, and unlike other equipment, quality DMMs can last a lifetime, unlike DSO which is more likely to become obsolete. DMMs for professional use are made to higher standards in terms of stability, longevity, durability and safety, often having to be certified for same too.The actual cost of DMMs today are cheaper in 2014 than it was in the past since it does close to the same thing. For example, a Fluke 87 is spec similarly and has the same capabilities of the 87V and in 1989 cost ~ $300, but 2014 dollar is ~worth 53c in 1989 dollars, so that same DMM would cost about $160. Some advances do occur, and CAT protection was added in 1995??, so for professional use at least the 87III would be viable, which still cost about $300 in late 1990s or about $200 in 1995 dollars.http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 04:19:25 pm
content: That $400 for a Fluke is worth every cent when you stick your probes on some 380V circuit, you hear a loud pop and you can still open your eyes.I know several people who have experienced shit like that. Sometimes due to user error, sometimes due to wiring faults or mechanical issues. The probe tips were completely gone in some cases, but the handpieces, leads and multimeter itself completely contained the energy.I don't even want to know what would happen with my UT61E. It doesn't even come with the proper fuses for the given CAT rating. The Fluke TL71 leads I use are almost half the price of the meter....

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 04:51:50 pm
content: It is fair to say that a Fluke (for example) is overpriced if you consider it to be plastic and parts. One thing most professionals are buying when they buy a high end meter is confidence. You may need safety, precision whatever, most of all you want repeatability over time. That applies to safety and to whatever other reasons you purchased the meter.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 06:14:36 pm
content: We still have every fluke this company every bought. About 15 of them, going back over the last 30 years. Every one of them is still within spec and has never needed to be sent out for cal. One of them had a display go weak, and 4 pieces of masking tape fixed that. That's why the are "WORTH" that much. The reason they "COST" that much is it is very difficult to design something that good. Development costs along with the service and support to go along with it. Its also because assholes like us want the newest latest and greatest specs cause somebody at some other cheaper company made something with tighter spec but not a care in the world to reliability or usability and us assholes want it incorporated into the next fluke which then has to be completely redesigned to be at their quality standard. Now there is a whole new product design cycle for something they are only going to sell a few thousand of a year. Most companies would not even bother making anything in that low of quantity.There you have it. Before you go complaining about price try every other cheap meter out there first. Many of them are just fine. We have many other off brands here too and many of them are cheaper and quite good, but none get used as much as the flukes. Many of them are also junk. When you have critical measurements to do and spend a couple of days chasing phantom anomalies around and it turns out to be meter quirkiness, that $600 for that fluke seems mighty cheap in the grand scheme of things.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 06:38:22 pm
content: Quote from: Circuitous on January 15, 2014, 03:41:11 pmBut there seems to have been progress in the few years since the review.Quote from: rollatorwieltje on January 15, 2014, 04:19:25 pmSure. But does it really cost an extra $200 or $300 to get better fuses, a MOV or two, and better plastic materials and case design?Quote from: arcom on January 15, 2014, 02:08:52 pmI think this is a major reason.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:11:01 pm
content: Quote from: lpc32 on January 15, 2014, 06:38:22 pmNot really. Just other brands, same crap. When it comes to these cheap multimeters all argumentation from the fanboys boils down to " But it is cheap!".It is not reliable.But it is cheap!It is unsafe.But it is cheap!It doesn't meet its spec.But it is cheap!You don't get service.But it is cheap!It gets boring over time.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:31:47 pm
content: If you as a company spends let's say $2 million on R&D of a nice DMM (Got to pay everyone involved!) that you are only going to sell 50,000 a year of, that is $40 per unit alone that as to be recovered, then there is the cost of materials, cost of production, cost of shipping, profit margin for the company, profit margin for the distributor, profit margin for the store that ultimately sells it, it's not hard to get $30 in parts to cost $300 at the register.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:41:04 pm
content: Why would it cost $2 million to R&D a DMM?

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:51:57 pm
content: Quote from: lpc32 on January 15, 2014, 07:41:04 pmBecause you want to make it work properly and last a long time. If you don't care about that, it could be done a lot cheaper.

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:57:40 pm
content: For a company $400 is a small amount of money. It make sense for them to buy Flukes.For a hobbyists it's a lot of money and it doesn't make sense to buy a new Fluke. There are alternatives.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 08:00:38 pm
content: Quote from: lpc32 on January 15, 2014, 07:41:04 pmIt's not just a few man hours and a bread board.They have to take into account for things such as man hours, prototypes, equipment (computers, software, T&M equipment to test the prototypes, ...). And then there's also additional expenses such as compliance testing that get tacked on (CAT, UL, CSA, TUV,...). Then you have to account for manufacturing costs, packaging, transportation, proper customer service (if this is something the manufacturer offers; think sales personnel and applications engineers that answer your questions when you need it).It adds up. Then there's a profit margin tacked on by at least the manufacturer and distributor at a minimum (more hands it goes through, the more the price goes up due to profit margins, so if there's a retailer after the distributor, that person/company adds something to the final price as well). They have to eat too after all...

author: pomonabill221
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 08:01:27 pm
content: Quote from: casper.bang on January 15, 2014, 01:36:23 pmAny scope does not have the precision of a good DMM, even the measurement readout on a scope doesn't have the resolution that a DMM has.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 08:06:10 pm
content: There is loads of DMM out there. Fluke charge what they do because that's is what people are willing to pay. Fluke make a ddm, they market it and set a price...you as a consumer are free to buy any DMM you want. its business... if they ask to much or if the product is not up to snuff they will loss sales which will be the signal for them to lower there price or increase quality. witness Fluke making the 15b and 17b...the idea that because its cost x to make or buy you should charge x + penny is just sillythere is cheaper and equally safe/usable meters out there. I have just ordered a brymen (a greenlee branded one) for my self. a perfectly usable safe off brand DMM... it wll be used for my hobby's and work with 240VAC.

author: pomonabill221
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 08:10:39 pm
content: Another, often overlooked item, is the warranty and replacement of a cheap vs. expensive meter, and the capability of NIST calibration option.Most, if not all, cheapies don't have this and the warranty may only be 90 days and limited at that.All factors that have been mentioned add up to the overall cost. The name IS what you are paying for, but behind the name is ALOT of items that add up and is what counts as far as the cost.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 08:13:28 pm
content: Ther is lots more tech that goes into a scope lots of flags several asics a big LCD lots of Front end stuff how the hell could that cost less than a microcontroller and some other stuff and also for £300 a dmm should be perfect and no cheep stuff like 9v batteries as found in the fluke 87 even extech did it right with 2 AA batteries as found in the ex330.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 08:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: electronics man on January 15, 2014, 08:13:28 pmGeez, are you even reading this thread?? Much of the cost isnotin the chips & wires. And ...Never mind, I was just about to waste my time re-iterating what others have already said, which you ignored the first time.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 09:19:57 pm
content: Quote from: Len on January 15, 2014, 08:21:26 pmAgreed. Electronics Man just isn't quite tuned-in.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 12:49:24 am
content: I have Fluke 87 (my company) , and i think the price is much to expensive ..$349.99reference pricewww.amazon.com/Fluke-FLUKE-87-V-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B0002YFD1Ki can get a rigol DS1052E for that priceand i have try fluke 289 that more expensive ($501.72 )reference pricehttp://www.amazon.com/Fluke-289-True-RMS-Logging-Multimeter/dp/B0012B51HIfrom the previous thread there is some opinion:pros:1. Quality2. RnD cost3. After service price4. Calibrationcont:1. The Bill Of Material is not that expensive2. Overprice because Brandingi can add some comment:1. The DMM thechonlogy is not that high (it's not a rocket science after all)2. The DMM is already mainstream tools ( every Engineer should have it)3. Inside DMM only adc, microcontroler and cheap LCD..Why its should cost more than Osciloscoperef: 24 bit ADC only cost few dolar (less then a $1 in qty)http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/NAU7802KGI/NAU7802KGI-ND/27697834. about RnD. i think the cost RnD of a oscilloscope way beyond magnitude of DMM. think about heavy coded FPGA , DSP, ...5. Calibration.. every Test Equipment is calibrated, even cheap weighting scale is sometime can be traced to NISTso the big question is it marketing trick? like more expensive phone give people confidence?

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:02:56 am
content: QuoteMy turn...To paraphrase Len:Did you read anything in this thread?Honestly, that's the nicest thing I can say.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:22:50 am
content: Quote from: Circuitous on January 16, 2014, 01:02:56 amyes i read all of them.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:30:24 am
content: Quote from: han on January 16, 2014, 01:22:50 amThat's too bad. Then I'm not sure what we can do to help you.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:32:11 am
content: I don't think is as much a marketing trick as it is a simple way to make money. As with anything including the services of an EE for example. You charge enough to make your customer cringe but not enough to say no. Fluke and every company making a product is there to make money. I guess the real question is will a company come up with a competitive meter at a much lower price.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 02:12:23 am
content: Quote from: Circuitous on January 16, 2014, 01:02:56 amThe op seems just wants to hear that all of us to agree with his argument and probably want all of us to chant it too, I bet that will make him happy and content.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 02:44:04 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on January 16, 2014, 01:32:11 amGiven all the things we see things such as reduced features, input protections, cheap leads, ... in the less expensive models in order to meet their price points, I'd be shocked if this is actually possible at current production volumes.Even in the case of Brymen (assuming it's not a rebranded unit), I suspect most of the savings we do see are the result of using cheaper leads and lower voltage rated fuses in at least some models, and reduced warranty periods and lack of after-support (by comparison to giants such as Fluke or Agilent) across their entire lines.Reasonable compromise for hobbyists in the case of Brymen IMHO (given the value & quality you do get), but perhaps not so much for business clients where the after support can be extremely important.

author: taemun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 03:01:33 am
content: Not to bait the troll, but how often do you push mains voltage direct into the BNC input of your $350 Rigol?How often do you ask it to measure mains current, with the potential that you hooked it up wrong (putting mains across the 10A fuse, rather than through it)?(If you don't use your DMM to probe mains, don't think that no one does.)Scopes and DMMs do different jobs, and have very different safety requirements. I would hope to not lose a hand when the DMM fuse pops.Also, to put it bluntly - if the other companies could charge as much for their DMM as Agilent or Fluke, they would.

author: Derick Freese
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 03:18:22 am
content: I'm a beginner that only recently purchased a Fluke. It's one of the low end utility models, but it still helps me diagnose automotive wiring safely. A Rat Shack one blew apart on me once. The force wasn't enough that you'd be injured, but it didn't fail safely. For now, the only thing I'll use anything else on is low current work.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 03:53:23 am
content: Find me a cheap DMM with lifetime warranty.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 04:51:36 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 16, 2014, 02:44:04 amI do think there are good meters out there (depending on the application of course). I also think Fluke makes a quality product and should be rewarded as long as they can keep it up. You can bet if they slip up (or any company does) there will be another one waiting to hone in on their action. Good incentive for Fluke.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 04:53:29 am
content: Fluke's lifetime warranty is a bit misleading. It is in fact a limited warranty:Each Fluke 20*, 70*, 80*, 170 and 180 series DMM will be free from defects in material and workmanship for its lifetime. As used herein, "lifetime" is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996)In what way is the warranty limited?•It does not cover batteries or fuses.•It does not cover abuse or usage outside of specifications.•It does not cover normal wear and tear of mechanical parts.•It covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs).•It covers original user purchaser only.Still, one of the best warranties offered by multimeter manufacturers. Agilent and Gossen instruments come with a three-year warranty only.

author: PeterL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 11:41:44 am
content: Quote from: electronics man on January 15, 2014, 02:19:44 pmlike this one?http://nl.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/u1231a/multimeter-digital-hand-held-4/dp/1903369It lacks Current measurement, so you need Dave's uCurrent..

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 12:15:42 pm
content: Randmode on:The title of the topic should be: What make DMM so cheap !!Now you say a cheap meter is fine, so the more expensive are to expensive, while it is often the opposite. They make a design and then try to find everything that can not be left out. The thing must at least survive the first hours (you do not want to loose your ebay rating, will you ?) and then just let out the rest.Let the marketing department make the specs with a lot of typicals in it, and put it in a nice colored giftbox.End control, if there is any, is more to look if it does power up, indicating that probably not to many parts are forgotton to place in the meter. And solve some design faults with the shortest peace of wire .Do you now why the cabinets are often screwed with parker srews or just clicked together ? That is only because ducktape is to expensive compared to the meter.Good A-grade instruments are not to expensive, a lot of instruments today are just to cheap. (You get tears in your eyes from reading the specs ,as far as you can call that specs)And why is lousy build, not accurate, stable and unsafe good enough for hobby use ? Is it not bad if a hobbyist is killed by an unsave meter ? Does a hobbyist not make stuff that needs accurate meters ? So expensive vacations, camara's, cars, stereo's, computers are also only for proffessionals. Spending more on Beer as your mulimeter is normal ?For instance input protection, isolation of probes, a decent selected, A-grade and aged Voltage reference, precision resistors and shunts, precision high isolation low leakage relais, good quality pcb, good low leakage coating, some are even ultrasonic cleaned before mounting in a cabinet, (mu-metal) RF shielding, guarding, low seebeck metals and connections, Decent design regarding leakage, mechanical stress, seebeck etc, quality soldering, components that are not on the edge or beyond of the SOA, decent calibration and testing.And for those who do not get it and only look at parts. I needed a precision 0.01% resistor for a repair. That was 34 euro, but an alternative that came very close to the original would have costed me 130 dollars (and there where 5 of those in that instrument, the manufacturer will get them cheaper but it will be still expensive, or what about a good precision low tempco 10A shunt (can be over 50 dollar) , or a decent Fuse, That shunt will be more expensive as many cheapo multimeter, an aged LM399 or LTZ1000 is more expensive as a cheap meter. The price from many precission parts is unkown because they are on contract and often handpicked and measured, or aged. And good low EMF solid mount bananabusses are also expensive, just like good probes that will not give problems within a few years or weeks like the thick plastic one strand toys.I do not believe in bang for bucks and if it is cheap it must be good and the rest does not matter. We left that area long ago when cheap was often a bit simpler, less features, not so pretty looking but still not bad, still save and very usable. Today if we buy Chinese junk we say, it's real good, I had to make some mods that can kill me or the meter, but hey, it's cheap so its cool. It was cheap so who cares it blows up in your face, it's cheap so who cares it's 100% off at low battery level. It's cheap so who cares the probe resistance is variable around 10 Ohm,It has a very fast beeper and the rest is not important.Or: There was a tear down of this meter, It was the first meter the teardown guy owned and he's in to electronics for two weeks now, so it must be good, he measured a 9V battery and the meter showed 9V, isn't that awsom. He even measured 110V and it did not explode in his hands so it must be save. It was on you tube so it must be tru, It was cheap and I want to think it is good, so I believe everything. It beeps fast so it must be good, it does not wobble on its stand, what more do you want ? We have a winner....But why do I even care....

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 12:56:27 pm
content: When your income per month is less than a decent FLUKE DMM then you will consider it not cheap.the problem is the income gap is very large between country.If they can buy I phone and say DMM is expensive. then its a insult to the DMM maker.but if the average income per MONTH is less then a Decent DMM than is fair to say it expensive..I work with many T&M with price tag over 100K but my salary is less than unemployment benefits in USA..I use low priced DMM for my hobby,a and i find is horribly designed.I want a good DMM, i want a good Oscilloscope for my hobby purpose, why is so expensive...I don't set my flag. because i not proud of it...

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: han on January 16, 2014, 12:56:27 pmI can understand that the absolute prices are out of grasp for you, but I think that is a different problem from why are high-end DMMs so expensive.As a side note, one of our members recently took a look at a ~21$USD multimeter from Uni-T (the UT136B I think it was) and found that it was reasonably built and not bad at all, even for the price. Since I don't know where you are located, I will say that auctions/ebay/surplus stores can be a good source of equipment, as well as local flea markets and ham meet-ups.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:07:50 pm
content: Electronics hobby is always expensiveDeal with that or quit wanting fluke/agilent tools which made for those who earn on this for living, etc.And one single LTZ1000 makes DMM 54$ more expensive

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:16:29 pm
content: How long did Fluke need to acknowledge and fix the problem with the data port and bright ambient light in the 287/289 (US$450/500 DMMs)? I wouldn't pay a premium for that kind of support.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 01:53:04 pm
content: I own UNI-T and the refresh rate is so slow, and i have to overclock ithttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/facepalm.gifi swap the 4MHz x tal with 12Mhz crystal . and it faster than Fluke 78) ..but the freq and capacitance measurement became wierd...and with FLUKE 289 . i find something weird and funny .. when i use FLUKE 289 in loZ it have a ghost voltage (read about 2.78V ))...a ghost voltage in mode that supposed to avoid the effect..sorry for the out of topics but for the What make DMM so expensive answer i expect some original answer like the gold plating in the switch or something basic...

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 02:50:18 pm
content: this is a totally redundant augment/topic. it does not matter if fluke are over price or not because we are free to buy any make of DMM. if fluke made a meter that did something that no one else could do and we had to buy it then sure we would have cause to complain.I have never owned a Fluke and most likely never will and don't feel hard done by...but i always keep this in mind: there is a difference between a good product going cheap and a cheap product going cheap.

author: PeterL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 03:03:43 pm
content: Quote from: han on January 16, 2014, 01:53:04 pmThere is not one simple answer.Try to image you are the manufactorer and you have as a starting point a very average design. You can then change your design to make it either better or cheaper.The quality brands choose better:-higher accuracy,-higher CAT rating,-better performance,-better user interface-better durabilty.-better etc.but they will keep it in balance. Top quality goldplating alone makes no sense when there rest is below average.The cheap brands will do whatever needed to make their meter cheaper.- 0.5% instead of 0.1% makes a big difference on BOM costs- If their target customers don't bother about CAT-ratings, then they don't bother to be better than legaly needed.- durability: as long as the vast majority of meters survives warranty then it's ok.using this strategy alone you can easily make the 'good' products twice as expensive als the original, and/or make the cheap one half the price of the orignal.Another point is that the cheaper products can be sold in larger quantity's. The hobbiest market is simply bigger as for professionals. And prices go down if the numbers grow.

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 04:16:17 pm
content: Quote from: han on January 16, 2014, 12:49:24 amDMM tech can vary wildly. Cheap DMMs use commonly available parts (eg. the Intersil 7106) and build the entire DMM around that chip with discrete parts. The more expensive units have custome ASICs and thus substantially better noise immunity, better temp stability and (as somebody else already mentioned) better repeatability of measurements.About the ADC: DMMs rarely use traditional ADCs because they are much too noisy. Most DMMs implement an integrating ADC or Dual Slope Convertor which offers much higher resolution and stability.See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrating_ADCThere are many good alternatives to the Flukes/Agilents of the world - I've settled on the Brymen meters. Good quality at a reasonable price. Not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either. As an example, the Brymen BM867 is about $200 for a 500,000 count meter with all the bells and whistles you can expect from a high-end DMM. Dave also recently did a quick review of the BM257:--deckert