RIP the "dream" plane - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 02:22:22 am
content: It had been named “Mriya”, which means “dream” in Ukrainian (aka AN-225, the largest plane in the world)The world’s largest aircraft, the Antonov An-225 Mriya is on fire in its hangar in Gostomel Airport, Ukraine (official confirmation). The Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba confirmed in a tweet that the An-225 was destroyed.https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497947370008547332edit :the chinese supposedly made a deal to make copies of it, but it didnt work out.article of AN-225 in popular mechanicshttps://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a32162223/antonov-225-mriya/when looked at from the rear, it looks like a "swallow" in flight.edit 2 :They (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_Serial_Production_Plant) should start a gofundme for Mriya 2 ...

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 02:31:56 am
content: I don't think I have seen one of those before:Looking at the many wheels on the back I find that fascinating.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 03:36:25 am
content: There was a second AN-225 that was about 70% complete if I recall correctly. I wonder what its status is.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 12:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on February 28, 2022, 02:31:56 amThere ever was the one and only flying.Check youtube, you'll find the videos where the proud captain speaks of his machine. Sure, it was only a machine but still, something great has been lost from this world.Slava Ukraine!

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 05:45:57 pm
content: I saw that plane once on the tarmac at Moffitt Field in California. I believe it was either delivering or picking up a satellite for NASA.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 05:52:34 pm
content: The An-225 was initially designed to carry the soviet space shuttle, IIRC.The first was completed before the soviet union collapsed. The program was stopped right after, so the second one was never completed.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 06:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 28, 2022, 05:52:34 pmand afaik the first one was only pulled out of storage and certified for flight after Antonov saw a need for something bigger than their An-124, they worked on finishing the second one some 15 years ago but stopped again

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 06:22:41 pm
content: Yeah it didn't have enough uses to justify the cost of build and maintenance.That said, while being pretty barebones technologically, it was amazingly maneuverable for a plane that big, from what I remember.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 06:27:01 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 28, 2022, 06:22:41 pmafaik it also has some neat features like that main landing gear can be angled for landing in side wind and the wheels can be replaced while in flight in case they get a puncture on takeoff

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 10:26:14 am
content: RIP

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 04:23:24 pm
content: The invaders only know to destroy, I hope Ukraine can rebuild it.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 05:07:02 pm
content: Yeah... RIP...Excited even big airplane pilots when it landed somewhere:

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 06:24:49 pm
content: they should sell it on Ebay maybe elon musk will fix it or something, a few years in the body shop should have it like newI guess its not profitable to rebuild (it is a hand me down from soviet union) but it might make for a collectors item (the repair cost might never recoup from commercial operations within the lifespan of the system)It can also be a form of philanthropy if the airplane is fixed and runs at negative costs to provide disaster relief or something (time to delivery is still critical in disaster management), and any 'ease' it provides to space-related systems could greatly accelerate space-related development and research.. so perhaps someone should think about repairing it even if it looks bad on paper, since it might have some serious benefits to staying around. I would say this is a great example of how far can hurt the scientific-logistics side of things and destroy opportunity for research and development. I think its something along the lines of having a big work bench around (it changes your lab completely).

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 07:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 03, 2022, 06:24:49 pmUh? With the cost of building such a plane, I think you have no idea what we could achieve.That's one of the reasons there were never more than one to begin with.Making "icons" survive can have benefits in terms of historic preservation, and we do it all the time. But I'm not too sure the history of the AN-225, and Antonov in general, is really what most people would like to preserve, at least not in this context. Antonov was a product of the USSR. Just a thought.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 07:39:05 pm
content: For huge things to be moved between continents, now the only way is to ship - literally. That will take much longer and might even be more expensive than flying it.I'm sure that even if this one is not rebuilt, there will be some other one that takes its place in hauling such cargo.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 10:46:58 pm
content: There are definitely alternatives, which happen to fly more often and in a larger number (while still pretty limited): the Airbus Beluga and Beluga XL, and the Boeing Dreamlifter. While not quite as big as the AN-225, they can still transport huge payloads. The total number of those planes in operation is about 10 or so.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 11:30:42 pm
content: A couple of tidbits from this video:Day 37: Speaking About the Dream -- Operator Starskyhttps://youtu.be/ZglhWkJQOFA- (3:30) Germany offered to relocate transport airplanes to Germany before hostilities broke out- (4:40) there is second airfoil of an uncompleted Mriya at the Antonov factoryThe presenter has an earlier video which talks about the early days of the war and the destruction of the plane:An-225: The Last Days of the Dream -- Operator Starskyhttps://youtu.be/dfUQnM2CXsU- (1:40) on 2/24 Mriya was supposed to relocate to another area but that didn't happenUpdate: Another video on the history of the 2nd Mriya airframe:Can Antonov Rebuild the AN-225? -- Coby Explainshttps://youtu.be/dlKuMRe1EBo

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 11:55:42 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 03, 2022, 10:46:58 pmThose are modified to carry bulky objects but none of them come anywhere near the nearly 300 ton hauling capacity of the AN-225 nor do they have the range, IIRC.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 01:26:56 am
content: Relevant video about Hostomel

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 02:10:47 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 03, 2022, 07:04:59 pmIt's getting a little crazy to discount it, its not like its some war machine, its just another human achievement. That is taking politics too far. Its from 40 years ago.It looks like its in 3 pieces, I am not sure it could be joined back together, perhaps some latteral ribs need to be replaced, but it looks repairable. That plane can haul 300 tons, so even if you need to make it a little heavier with some reinforcements because of the damage (sometimes the same size won't be as strong on complex repairs).IMO having that plane around as a tool for the planet is great. It encourages multinational collaboration and all sorts of good stuff (you can use heavy industry of other countries at reduced time and possibly cost where shipping would be prohibitive for better collaboration). Who knows when someone will need something real heavy fast. Literary madness occurs when large objects are shipped (its a fiasco to get something huge through a small town in Europe or whatever).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 10:51:58 am
content: I don't think that airframe is ever going to be rebuilt. The damage is too extreme. It also looks as if the cockpit and the left hand wing are totally destroyed, as well as most of the rear section. All that survives is right wing, some fuselage, and maybe three engines are salvageable. Do they even make AN-225 engine any more? (Progress D-18T) Avionics, hydraulics, and unreplaceable airframe parts will all also be destroyed. Will full plans even exist to rebuild it, or are they all paper records, which itself could take a decade to re-assemble and compile into modern CAD?I would love to see it rebuilt - but I am sure if that does happen it would be by taking the 70% complete airframe and salvaging what they can from the wreckage.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 12:46:09 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on April 04, 2022, 10:51:58 amafaik it the same engine as on the AN-124, more than 50 was build and about half is in service

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 12:53:31 pm
content: The engine is still made, since it's the same engine used in the AN-124. Even without it's big brother, the AN-124 is still one of the most capable heavy-lift aircraft in the world. Of course, parts come from Russia, so the operational lifetime of those outside Russia will likely be affected by the current situation. If memory serves, Ukraine had most of those.I agree that the current airframe is beyond recovery. The only chance is if the surviving parts (the whole tail assembly looks intact to me) are inspected, certified, and combined with the partly-finished 2nd AN-225 airframe that's been in storage for ages.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 06:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 04, 2022, 02:10:47 amNobody is "discounting" it. My point was just that it probably made no sense to rebuild it, however sad it is, and that precisely the only reason (that I even get from your own posts) would be historical, not really practical. Then it's natural to mention history if history is the reason to even bother rebuilding it.Of course it's human achievement. Many other artefacts of great human achievement were destroyed and never built back. You are again using an historical standpoint and yourself dismissing why history alone would probably not be a good reason for bothering rebuilding this. It was indeed an impressive, yet 40-year old plane, actually flying a few times a year. Money would be better invested elsewhere was also my point.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 08:44:54 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 04, 2022, 06:21:08 pmThat depends on whether it is worthwhile to design a new heavy duty cargo plane from scratch or just rebuild a new one from parts and a design that are readily available. It is not like it is flying on a daily basis so fuel consumption and wear are not things that are high on the priority list to improve.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 08:54:10 pm
content: Ukraine is so buried in debt since 2014 and under IMF dictator... *ahem* "conditionality" that, if this depends on them, they will be looking for other places to spend the money and not on the Antonov.

author: Neepa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2022, 06:23:31 pm
content: The AN-225 and other heavy lift planes (most of the time military transports) like it have the advantage in hauling compact heavy loads.Loads that a Dreamlifter or Beluga would crumble under cause they are concentrated in such a small area that their deck structures would buckle under them.That was the advantage of the AN-225.Now some current construction projects of chemical plants or in the oil industry are going to scratch their head how they are going to transport a 90-120 ton reactor or boiler across the world in their timetables.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2022, 08:30:01 pm
content: Quote from: Neepa on April 07, 2022, 06:23:31 pmmight be worth it if people make some kind of partnership to bring the plane back, if it is spread across a few different sectors then companies might overall able to reduce their costs and maintain status quo on shipping in the future rather then making big adaptations. It seems to be in the interest of heavy industry (industry that uses heavy capital equipment) to join together and get this thing working and available.This thing must save a fortune on making designs viable without figuring out a whole bunch of piecemeal crap and figuring out how to ship weird objects through weird places. These large structures have their own benefits (instead of legos).. its like having mechanical ASICs that are gonna be solid without assembly, jointing, stability, drift, alignment, etc problems.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 12:13:41 am
content: Quote from: Neepa on April 07, 2022, 06:23:31 pmYour example needs a bigger number to require the AN-225. The AN-124 can haul about 150 tons if it'll fit in the plane.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 09:23:42 am
content: Video taken by Dmytro Antonov - Chief Pilot of Antonov AirlinesTour of Hostomel (aka Antonov) AirportTurn on subtitles to get english.

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 06:58:19 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 08, 2022, 12:13:41 amIt can fly only 3200 km with 150 tons, but 5200 with 120 tons, etc. So if a large range is required then a load is strictly restricted.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 10:34:20 pm
content: Looking at the damage to other planes there I can't imagine many of them flying again. The bullet holes ripping through fuselage, hydraulics, avionics, etc. will be extremely expensive to repair, especially given the aircraft are mostly outside of series production. The An-225 is more of an exception, hearing the chief pilot tear up over that was hard. I don't think much more than the tail section and some engines are usable, and even then those will need complete overhauls to ensure they are airworthy. That aircraft is gone, sadly, but maybe the parts can be used.A Boeing 777-200ER was fire damaged due to an uncontained engine failure a few years ago. That one was repaired, but the repair process took a few months and the cost was close to writing the aircraft off, though it wasn't quite there:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_2276Just that small fire damage on the aircraft in the hangar may be enough to write that off.Most insurance doesn't cover war, I expect aviation insurance is the same. So repairs/replacement will only happen at the cost of the Russian state, or if Antonov funds them privately.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 11:01:31 pm
content: I hope they can find someone to fix it, its kind of a national treasure, the front looks totally FUBAR though (that looks like ALOT of panel beating, if you can even do that to a plane chassis), based on the video.Alot of suffering went into being able to make that plane (at cost of things like toilet paper, chip miniaturization, etc). Why are the bullet holes such a big deal? I thought it was all pipes and cable harnesses in there, I thought it could be mostly patched up.Did it get shot by a heavy artillery or something?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 11:48:06 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 08, 2022, 11:01:31 pmAFAIK it doesn't work that way. To reduce weight, every part of the fuselage (including the plating) is part of the main structure of an airplane. A bullet hole can easely lead to a larger tear. So at least every piece of plating with a bullet hole in it needs to be replaced.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 12:33:04 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 08, 2022, 11:48:06 pmIt's called a stressed skin. Damaged panels can be patched with a plate, but if you have several holes it may be easier to replace.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:10:25 am
content: Is that the biggest plane in the world? How stupid those Russians are.. Most Americans think Antonov means Russian, even though its Ukrainian-developed. SO many of the USSR's best people were Ukrainian.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:17:49 am
content: NASA appreciates what they have done.If you ask them for help, they will be happy to help you. As best as they can. They have huge wind tunnels, even supersonic wind tunnels and could help remake those planes better than before.They should try to turn this disaster into a victory.. It can be done.Keep that in mind. Show them that video..We are all in this Earth together.Science transcends all else.. It transcends Putin's idiocracy..

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:25:59 am
content: Whomever did that was in an totally evil, twisted frame of mind, they only wanted to destroy the accomplishment.Fools they are..Quote from: nctnico on April 08, 2022, 11:48:06 pm

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:34:27 am
content: What need to happen is the geometry of the damaged planes has to be captured as soon as possible (laser scanning, high res photogrammetry.. ) recorded in as much detail as possible using fiducial targets of known size, that would be of assistance in getting the measurements right.Using laser scanning and photogrammetry. It may be possible torecreate the plansfor these planes using math.Thats how the Saturn 5 (Rocketdyne F1) engines were re-created. The designers are free, they need to get out and into safety.This is what they rebuilt,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1Safe and sound.. They need to get themselves into safety.. They should fly out, to one of the Baltic countries.The Russians made a huge mistake..The designers have a huge job ahead of them, but its hardly impossible.It could be an inspiration to all of us, this story.Quote from: tom66 on April 08, 2022, 10:34:20 pmThey dont have to fly again, they can be rebuilt from the geometry if its important.. They will need the CAD files to do anything modern anyway. They need to laser scan and take sharp protography lots of images to recreate the aircraft.. Hellthis isthe 21st century. These men are all professionals and the best at what they do in the world.. Teamwork.. is the key. To making things fly..Your attitude determines your altitude.. Nothing else.. Yes, that was a US propaganda slogan.Colmap can be super useful.. And easy to use..Colmap.https://colmap.github.io/

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 04:42:48 am
content: I was imagining there might be a pattern related to a taper in the plane that could be noticed after analysis is indeed there are many custom/specifically placed parts after reading the above post.

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 08:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on April 09, 2022, 01:10:25 am'Antonov' itself is a russian surname, and Oleg Antonov itself was russian (he was born near Moskow), but he made his greatest achevments in Ukraine, Kiev, with ukrainians.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 12:56:00 am
content: Quote from: Vovk_Z on April 09, 2022, 08:08:46 pmHim and the design bureau in Kiev but wasn't the parts for the planes build all over the then USSR?sorta like how Airbus gets parts from all over Europe

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 07:50:39 am
content: It was some cooperation in Soviet Union of cause.I have to add that the chief designer of An-225 and An-124 was Petro Balabuev, he is Ukrainian.WikiOleg Antonow was too old and I guess retired at that time (he worked as university lecturer).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 02:57:03 pm
content: The chief pilot seems to be Dymtro Antonov, is this just a coincidence or is he descended from the family? I couldn't find any reference there, but it might explain even more so why he' so attached to these aircraft - they are family to him.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 05:28:45 pm
content: I think given how the soviet union treated public works, it was SUPPOSED to be part of your family. All types of sacrifices and reallocations were made so that kinda stuff can get built, I don't think it could happen in a democracy as easily.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 07:16:20 pm
content: To be fair, the American view of how the Soviet Union worked is generally less than accurate, except for those with first-hand experience and/or studied expertise. Heck, a large percentage of Americans don't even understand how America works, especially when many of those who do see it in their best interest to keep it that way.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 07:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 10, 2022, 07:16:20 pmIndeed.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 01:52:51 pm
content: Yes, you are quite right.There is agood essay on this that is worth reading. It originally came from Canada and its an eye opener on many things. Everybody who reads English may benefit from it. Capitalism has now limited the scope of services, making them private-for profit OR "supplied in the exercise of governmental authority" and hence, public.Quote from: coppercone2 on April 10, 2022, 05:28:45 pm

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 02:03:59 pm
content: This is interesting as to whether an airplane that sustains "severe thermal damage" can be repaired safely.It looks very difficult, frankly. Because its aluminum its perhaps better to build it over again from 3d captured plans made to replicate the originals - built from scratch.For example, see what happened tohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_2276due to catastrophic failure and fire in one engine. Kudos to the pilot for immediately aborting the takeoff and issuing the call to evacuate the plane. That was exemplary Quick thinking!Aluminum that melts might not ever be the same structurally and might need replacement to be safe.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 05:36:38 pm
content: If you want to see crazy repairs, look at some of the restorations of vintage warbirds, sometimes they'll pull a wreck out of a swamp and use it as a basis for a restoration. I don't think 3D scanning is viable for reproducing an aircraft, at least not without completely disassembling it.There are many, many complex stamped and cast metal parts.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 06:01:54 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on February 28, 2022, 06:03:26 pmI saw the AN-124 back in 1988 and it was impressive enough:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air/Space_America_88TheBoeing STOL YC-14was more amazing to watch though. It took off and reached operating altitude within the length of the runway.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 06:49:34 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on April 12, 2022, 06:01:54 pmI have seen several Volga Dnepr AN-124's fly directly over my house at about 5,000 feet as I'm right under one of the approach paths to Sea-Tac airport. I didn't know what it was until I looked at the flightradar24 app but I knew it was something BIG, the rumble rattled the walls.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 09:25:50 pm
content: Were they Ukrainian planes? I doubt if Russian aircraft are flying to the US right now, due to the current situation. But I could see Ukrainian planes flying here, perhaps to bring refugees here. Or to Canada. Seattle would make sense as a destination, though, from the Eurasian continent. I am reminded of Fort Ross which is a park and historical monument on the Mendocino coast of California. Fort Ross in the past was an Imperial Russian outpost where the Tsar, (yes, its that old) had setup to trade with Native Americans for furs.If any body is visiting the North Coast (of Calif) as a tourist its an interesting place to see. It dates back to the 19th century and its in quite good shape and well restored to the way it was then. I visited it in around 2006, it seems like it was only yesterday. I took lots of photos, thats probably why my memory of it is fresh.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 09:54:47 pm
content: I just posted a link to this, I should remove that post..https://simpleflying.com/russian-volga-dnepr-antonov-an-124-impounded-canada/Looks like its ultimate destination was Canada. where it was held up.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 01:07:39 am
content: The last time one flew over was 6+ months ago so the current situation is irrelevant to that.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 03:04:41 am
content: Quote from: cdev on April 12, 2022, 09:54:47 pmAfter the break up of the Soviet Union I saw these quite often landing at Winnipeg. The operator said they liked Winnipeg because its an international airport that isn't too busy and it is in the center of the continent close to common great circle routes.The first one I spotted made me do a double take, I thought holy shit that 747 is low... wait a minute that's no jumbo...

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 03:40:19 am
content: Turkey might be interested in completing the 2nd An-225 airframe:https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/01/sky-giant-turkey-mulls-to-complete.html

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 01:19:07 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on April 10, 2022, 02:57:03 pmAs I know it is a coincidence. They are not relatives.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2022, 02:21:57 am
content: An indication of how proud the Ukrainians are of that plane:https://toys-kopitsa.com.ua/vse-bude-ukrayina/mriya

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2022, 05:29:06 am
content: Or perhaps an indication that Javelin missiles are more popular than the plane?Really need to see sales figures for an actual indication, of course.

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2022, 05:50:09 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 18, 2022, 05:29:06 amAt the moment (real) Javelines are much-much more popular in Ukraine than the plane, for the known reasons. This is a sad truth. I know people who used names "Javelin" and "Bayraktar" for their pets.Another sad joke about Javelines topic is the song "All you need is NLAW, NLAW. NLAW is all you need."

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2022, 03:29:45 pm
content: The large cargo carrying Antonov is certainly useful to have in emergencies.Also, so many people hated to see such a capable plane so shamelessly and brutally destroyed. We all appreciate the tradition and accomplishment it represented.Its like Ukraine and Russia represent two faces one of good one of evil, of the old USSR. The good side is the one of science. Family, and helping one another. The bad side is the side of dishonesty, repression, and fear/terror.There is a second AN-225 airframe? Why wasnt it finished?https://simpleflying.com/second-antonov-an-225-finished/

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2022, 03:36:22 pm
content: Quote from: ledtester on April 18, 2022, 02:21:57 amThey should set up a campaign to help fund the reconstruction of the planes. They could help it by selling plushies.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2022, 06:42:57 pm
content: Nice:

author: HuronKing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2022, 07:52:16 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on April 19, 2022, 03:29:45 pmCost to complete and long-term operating expense. You'd need to have more spare parts in stock, regular maintenance plan, trained crew, and enough demand from the market to sustain.I suspect the need for the plane wasn't SO great that they couldn't get away with just using 1 to meet global demand for heavy lifts and utilizing the 2nd airframe for spares.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2022, 01:18:57 am
content: Quote from: HuronKing on April 20, 2022, 07:52:16 pmThe need was so great even the first one was mothballed for most of the 1990's for lack of purpose. The second one was never finished because it never made economic sense to potential financial backers to spend a very large sum to finish it.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 01:10:01 pm
content: $9.95 an hour is so little no wonder they didn't get decent plushie programmers for that. Not even from India. How could they ever?

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 04:37:40 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 21, 2022, 01:18:57 amKinda like the A380 project. When it started to be developed the outlook was different of now. Now most of them are being decommissioned because they are too big, the flying industry and customers changed their approach in how flights and people move around.Airbus released their Neo series, who basically are old models but with aerodynamic and mechanical improvements for fuel saving and extra range, companies fly their airplanes slower than in the 90s, customers look for the cheapest flight possible, don't care if they have to make 2 or 3 stopovers for the cheapest possible.Then you got the increase of prices of fuel, low cost companies who undercut most of the big ones by having everything as optional and extra on the ticket. Wanna some water while on board, pay extra. Want to have a bulk luggage? Pay. I remember even reading that some wanted to start charging the use of the toilets...Concorde? Airbus Beluga? Antonov AN-225? Airbus A380? All past glories of ingenuity and proof that men are capable of the biggest engineering marvels.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 05:07:43 pm
content: The A380 is an example of not quite good fit to actual market indeed, but there's still a wide gap with something like the AN-225. The A380 while not being a completely right fit certainly had a lot of potential uses. The AN-225 never had a lot of uses to begin with.And, I don't know what you're talking about when mentioning the Beluga. It's still useful and operating. Absolutely not "past glory".

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 06:22:31 pm
content: There are not a lot of uses for the AN-225 which is why there were never a lot of them built, but there are uses, for which nothing else will do. I don't think there will ever be a need for a large fleet of them but one or two could certainly be useful.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 07:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 27, 2022, 05:07:43 pmYes, only five of the original model were build and are used by Airbus to transport parts for their own assembly lines.Current model is the Beluga XL. My mistake since I remember reading about their production stop, the low units build but didn't know it had a replacement.Well its an airplane in the same situation than the Antonov, but this one at least kinda have a purpose for it.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2022, 08:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 27, 2022, 06:22:31 pmThey will hold a large shipment of the kinds of goods that one might ship to countries in emergencies... And I think they need less of a runway.Certain kinds of shipments are more expensive than they should be because of the lack of a high capacity shipping ability to non-major airports

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2022, 03:44:55 pm
content: Update on the AN-225:The SSU is investigating the involvement of the Antonov State Enterprise management in the destruction of the AN-225 “Mriya”https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-ssu-is-investigating-the-involvement-of-the-antonov-state-enterprise-management-in-the-destruction-of-the-an-225-mriya/

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2022, 05:12:26 am
content: Some manager expected more profit from insurance than keeping a 40 year old machine in working order?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2022, 09:24:06 am
content: Pretty sure nearly every insurance policy under the sun excludes war, because the cost of war is usually catastrophic (and also insurance companies don't want the liability)So is it just incompetence?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 08:25:51 am
content: I think the concern is that people who work in aviation (related to a nations logistics) have more attention and exposure to/from foreign governmentsQuotethat sounds pretty clear to meIts a little hard to imagine you are that incompetent that you start arguing with the damn military. They don't usually have a problem taking over operations of whatever object. That sounds like they decided to get into a argument about airport operations details with the military during a crisis. What motivation could you have to do that?Also, trying to make use of insurance, particularly on transportation equipment, that could be used for whatever (lets say evacuations), during a time of war, is extremely grimy. It's obvious that those kinds of things get quickly nationalized and very important during a crisis because it can move people and supplies.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 05:58:09 pm
content: So, what about all those guys who swore they would get it rebuilt? As I remember, even Richard Branson was ready to help.How is that coming along?

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 06:52:50 pm
content: maybe Iron mayden could add it to their fleet

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 08:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 25, 2022, 05:58:09 pmI may say as a Ukrainian: Russians can't take us and our country(thank's to all Western help), so they just floor village-by-village and town-by-town where they can reach by their artillery. A large part of the country is ruined (Russian side) now, so as for me The Dream Plane is now somewhere at the bottom of the list of what to rebuild.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 08:55:37 pm
content: I wonder how they still pay 128B$ debtand we want to restore luxury planes

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 09:39:12 pm
content: It's not a luxury plane, it's the largest cargo aircraft in the world. There is (was) only one of them, and it did things no other aircraft can do.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 02:12:00 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 25, 2022, 05:58:09 pmThey've got a war going on and infrastructure repairs that still take precedence. Also, if there's a big deal about active progress, it's literally inviting a missile to visit the build site.Anyway, pretty much everyone technical agrees that the original is toast. Have you seen the pictures? But many parts from the original can help complete the never-finished 2nd AN-225. Never finished because financial backing wasn't there. But now that the 1st isn't around to service those unique requirements...

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 07:55:47 pm
content: BTW, there is some news:Antonov State Enterprise announced the construction of the second Mriya aircraft. It is already 30% readyQuote

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 08:42:05 pm
content: 30% means they're getting realistic about the existing state of the 2nd, rather than the 60% they used to say when they were trying to raise funds.Even in peacetime, this would be a multi-year project. In my opinion, I don't think there's any chance of a flying AN-225 before 2025. Just too many one-off things to fabricate without access to existing tooling, if it exists at all.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 08:48:56 pm
content: Antonov should be working on 100,000 suicide drones that deliver 25 kg payloads to 1,500 km distance, rather than building a single jumbo plane that has 15,000 km range and 250,000 kg lift capacity.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:53:34 pm
content: Quote from: vad on November 07, 2022, 08:48:56 pmPersonally I would much rather see a gigantic cargo plane that can move loads no other plane in the world can move, than a bunch of devices with no other purpose than killing people.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:02:13 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 07, 2022, 11:53:34 pmPersonally I would rather see them building civil planes too. But Ukraine is at war, defending its land and people from invaders. The country has limited resources, including people who can design and build aircrafts. So they must prioritize. Today Ukraine needs long range capabilities to hit weapon depots, command centers, concentrations of troops, training camps and supply routes deep behind enemy lines. Not the jumbo plane.PS. It is an honor to kill invaders who came to your country, and are murdering innocent civilians, rape your women and children.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:30:44 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 07, 2022, 11:53:34 pmIndeed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 09:46:32 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 07, 2022, 11:53:34 pmCouldn't agree more. Before the plane got destroyed, it had helped distribute Covid vaccines -at least according to a Dutch newspaper-.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 03:36:41 am
content: not everyone is a klingon