A few BBC articles concerning a shortage of engineering job candidates in the UK - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 12:23:50 am
content: I just happened to be reading these articles:"Graduates are not employable""There aren't enough graduates""I can't find people to hire in Northern Ireland""I can't find people to hire in England"Is this typical of other parts of the world?Some recent entry level interview experience here in the USA suggested a big difference between good candidates (few) and so-so candidates (many). It looked like the good candidates were basically choosing the position they wanted and were offering their services in a seller's market.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 01:24:22 am
content: Let me try to translate these from business lingo to Dilbert lingo:"Graduates are not employable" - We want PhD's to work for minimal wage"There aren't enough graduates" - Graduates are not cheap enough"I can't find people to hire in Northern Ireland" - All the people who know enough to be employable went to US or China"I can't find people to hire in England" - Everybody who is any good at their job is doing their own job already and doesn't give a fuck about our stinking jobs.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 01:31:23 am
content: Yes, amusing isn't it?As one of the articles happened to mention, "They went to work for investment banks in London." I won$$$er why?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 01:47:19 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on October 01, 2012, 01:24:22 amCorrection:"Graduates are not employable" - We have a gray bearded PhD but he is too expensive. Also we are unable to micromanage him because we have no clue about what he actually does. We want to fire him and get some kiddies to do the same job on the cheap. We tried a few from McDonald's but they don't seem to be quite there yet.

author: entereev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 04:47:44 am
content: It's not only the U.K, but pretty much anywhere. There's a supposed shortage of tech graduates and the big reason is tech studies ain't cool(or so they think). So they start spending big money on the useless marketing machine to lie to prospective students. So after these graduate, they realize they're underpaid.. unappreciated and not much career growth.I got friends who are in the financial industry..it's just ridiculous. After 1 or 2 years you're senior, within 5 you should be manager and then if you do well enough, partnership is within reach...This would probably sound like a dream in the tech-worldShortage my ass, first show me the money!

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 07:28:00 am
content: I'm leaving uni with £50k+ debt. I at least want a decent salary to pay that off since it's a 9% tax on my salary...

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 07:39:01 am
content: You're lucky. In the US they can take up to 25%.

author: Alana
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 07:56:06 am
content: 5 years ago my friend who at the time was senior administrator at programing company here in Poland hired few guys straight out of technical university. Guys had good grade and degree in information technology.I laughed when he told me he fired them after a month because those guys could not do their job and he said that he is not a training facility.Now i do not laugh anymore.I had very same problem in my current job. Its a student's company and I'm hired hand - chief technician. One of the guys was into electronics and we wanted him to help me with EE projects. But it turned out that he lacks any practical knowledge. I had to teach him how to solder, basic about applying Ohm's law in real life circut, the 555 timer - all this stuff i have learned when i was in elementary school, as a hobbyist. And to make things worse - he is now making his graduation project in EE for the univ. Well... its written that he is making it...

author: EEMarc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 09:27:00 am
content: Here is 10 reasons you should never get a Job.More seriously, the biggest problem is ability to do a job. The majority of students with freshly stamped university degrees are useless in real world situations. Every company wants the cream, the few that are the most valuable. They will pay top dollar for them, but often they don't even have to.Then there is the next group. Those that need to be warmed handed to become useful and will never be the most valuable. This means they lose money in the beginning. They will pay for themselves over time but certainly not immediately.The final group is the hopeless. The won't pay for themselves ever. In fact, they often cost the company they work for a lot of money by being there. This is because of direct causes such as theft and direct sabotage. Indirectly by causing loss of productivity by other employees. Or by just being useless and collecting a paycheck. Sometimes the most skilled people fall into this group for one reason or another.Learn to be the cream. Get the highest marks you can. Work harder than everyone else. Make yourself enthusiastic about your work even if you have every reason in the world not to be. Improve your skill set on your own starting with the ones you need the most. Get practical experience at every turn. Avoid drama and anything else that gets in your way. If the company isn't working for you, work for one that does. If you want to, you can do you own thing and make money at it as well.One of my friends is a highly skilled and valuable electrical engineer and project manager. He decided that he didn't want to do that anymore. He decided that he wanted to start his own bar. He is happier now than I've ever known him to be and he was very much content beforehand.“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”? John Lennon

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 09:55:06 am
content: Quote from: EEMarc on October 01, 2012, 09:27:00 amThe unfortunately not uncommon scenario is that this bunch become managers.A bit like following the mantra "Why study to become an engineer when you can be his boss?"Oh, and the answer the OP's original question: it is the same blabla in the Netherlands. For $$(or rather EUR in our case) you better study to become a lawyer of economist. Tech folks rarely make that amount of money...

author: EEMarc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 10:51:11 am
content: Those who go after the $$$, €€€, etc. are not often the ones that end up with it. If they do, they are often miserable. They are also the easiest to scam out of it. It is the ones that have the right skills, follow their passion, and the most financial sense that end up with it. Tesla for example was missing the last element and despite being very exceptional on the first two, he died penniless.

author: almoehi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 10:56:11 am
content: Same bullshit - I mean fairy tales - for years here in Germany. You wont get a job if you are over 40 because you are too old. But the idiots of employers are calling for foreign engineers, hoping they will work 80 hours per week, with no vacation and a wage like those Chinese slaves. All those lies - can't hear it any more.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 11:29:06 am
content: Well, there seemed to be no shortage of candidates when I was applying for jobs - maybe the employers have distort-o-vision?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 11:45:53 am
content: Sounds like the same bullshit everywhere in Europe. Where I live, one is considered too old for an IT job when being 35, years. And to old for an engineering job when you are 45. Of course, we have a large amount of unemployed older engineers.On the other side there are the employers and some very large and well funded lobby groups who are busy telling us there is a shortage of engineers. Sure. Young, cheap ones.Another factor is that many companies are firing their own engineers and are hiring contractors instead. So there is a surge of contractor companies, aka pimps. The pimps are constantly on the lookout to get new fresh meat - cheap, submissive engineers to hire them out to their clients.Some of the pimps have flogged to Spain and Greece when the economy there tumbled, and tried to hire fresh meat from there. Interestingly, not even Greek and spanish engineers wanted to work for the peanuts they were offering.Of course, there is also a skill issue with graduates. Metrosexual iPhone fondlers. They are just not what they used to be. I blame a society, where everyone is taught to be automatically entitled to everything. But I also blame the employers. For many years they lobbied to get graduates with very specific skills. And universities did what they were told. Instead of teaching fundamentals, they taught special software packages "click here, then there ...", and produced trained monkeys. Now the industry can hire the trained monkeys from the pimps.

author: EEMarc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 12:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 01, 2012, 11:45:53 amThat pretty much sums up the capabilities of most engineers. It doesn't matter how many engineers China, India, or other countries roll out. They are engineers by title and not by actual ability. Only the few that are any good at engineering matter. The rest are just dead weight.

author: VonKlitzing
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 01:05:25 pm
content: The big companies IMO are far too insular and narrowminded. It seems that if you don't tick nearly every single box and criteria no matter how esoteric then the bimbo from HR usually just chucks the CV into the trash. The hiring process has become more of an arse covering exercise than getting the right person for the job. They'll take the mentally deficient candidate with the right bit of paper over the one with years of experience but no degree every single time.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 01:54:57 pm
content: there all going on the xfact isn't it

author: Pat Pending
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 07:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on October 01, 2012, 01:24:22 amIt's a shame really, the folks there are very well educated, passionate, industrious and yet apply for a passport as soon as they can.Off topic - but vaguely relevant"What do you call an Irishman under a wheelbarrow - a mechanic"