Biped robots are coming - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:45:42 am
content: Boston Dynamics is at it again. And what is happening at 1:20 is rude and inconsiderate towards our robot overlords.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:21:46 am
content: Cool. But I do wonder why bipedal robots never seem to be based around a more avian body shape. Would have to be much easier to just get them to stand and more than good enough in situations where 2 legs are better than more or wheels/tracks.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:44:48 am
content: That guy with the hockey stick is a dick. No wonder we are doomed when they finally become sentient.This is ridiculously awesome though.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:03:25 am
content: Impressive...and scary!

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:59:57 am
content: Impressive for sure, I see there where QR type codes stuck all over the place

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 09:23:10 am
content: Quote from: StuUK on February 24, 2016, 08:59:57 amI noticed that too, not exactly real world as yet, but getting close.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 09:30:07 am
content: I guess they are primarily concerned with the overall agility of the robot rather than fancy image recognition etc etc...

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 10:45:28 am
content: One day it will do your ironing, washing, cooking, cleaning and more. Just on half the world's population will be redundant

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 10:46:19 am
content: It's always the same guy (found on Reddit)

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 10:58:47 am
content: Very cool!But it walks like a drunk person.Especially obvious in the snow scene. I guess the algorithms need a little bit tweaking or better sensors to adjust the foot to the ground (steps, rocks, logs etc...).Greetings

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:03:21 am
content: What i found more curious where 2 small easy to miss parts, first with the hockey stick scene, just before the scene ends, he sweeps the hockey stick low, and the robot appears to reflex most of its mass onto the opposite foot,That and the fall scene, it had plenty of time to calculate its fall, so i found it odd that it curled up and smashed down face first,As for the odd walking stance, i can mainly put that down the there system being freestanding when unpowered, so it has to fight from that rest position,And the box to shelf scene seemed more like direct motion capture demo than programming

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:22:04 pm
content: Humans don't walk in such a dissimilar manner when on unstable footing - we also tend to lower our centre of gravity, keep knees more bent. It's less efficient, but more stable.As for falling flat on it's face, I suspect that is simply best for a couple reasons first, it appears structurally strong with what appear to be crash bars on the head as opposed probably weak arms, and we can notice also that it lands with knees bent under itself to more easily pivot on them when standing up.Also, nothing wrong with using qr codes to assist in tasks, that's what they are for afterall, even for humans. If a problem can be solved with lots of computationally expensive image processing, or by putting a qr code on a box... I jnow which i'd do to start with.The time of general purpose bipedal bots is almost here. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it;s going to happen either way.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:40:10 pm
content: Can't resist

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:46:26 pm
content: Amazing work, snow part especially even tho it looks clumsy. Felt bad for the robot

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:57:53 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 24, 2016, 07:44:48 amThought the exact same thing!Seriously now, what is the advantage of 2 legs over an articulated body built on top of tank tracks (like a caterpillar), other than being able to climb steps? Something like this:

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:24:13 pm
content: The best way to contend with an environment that has been designed for human use is to move and be shaped more or less like a human. Wheels or tracks are fine for mostly flat surfaces, but if you want to be able to climb (potentially damaged) human-sized stairs or ladders, or get in and out of a standard vehicle, then a human-ish bipedal frame is far better suited. Note that the DARPA competition featured exactly these sorts of activities, and those needs drove the entrants into more or less human shapes.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:34:40 pm
content: That's some seriously cool and simultaneously very scary sh*t.I'll bet law enforcement agencies are licking their lips.I wonder what the run time is with the current battery pack.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:49:51 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 24, 2016, 05:34:40 pmWanna bet it's longer than a normal (non-endurance athlete) human can run without stopping?Time to beyet?

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 09:42:08 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on February 24, 2016, 05:49:51 pmCover its body with some good solar panels and you have slightly increased autonomy when outdoors. That's feasible and not that expensive.Now, if we only could add a micro nuclear reactor to it, then we definitely would be all f*cked... and the first human on history to get bitch slapped by a robot would be the guy with the stick on the video.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:01:20 am
content: Honda have been doing it for years -http://youtu.be/ag2vk6coBpI

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:03:41 am
content: Yeah, right. Honda's robot only stays on its feet only if you don't breathe on it.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 06:04:04 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on February 24, 2016, 05:49:51 pmAre you betting it is or isn't? If it's the former I'll take that bet. All but the unhealthiest humans are natural endurance athletes* and because of that over 24 hours we're faster than horses or wolves even with our much lower top speeds.*In comparison to other land animals. Obviously not when compared to other humans who are elite endurance athletes lol.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:09:10 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 25, 2016, 08:03:41 amDid you even watch the video? Here is another one from MIT (sorry, it's even longer). Honda seem to have been ahead in this game from MIT and the whole Boston robotics mafia forever. Thanks for starting this fascinating topic, btw...http://youtu.be/hKp3nIcPmo0Edit: the whole video is nice, but relevant content starts at around 5:15.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:22:23 am
content: Quote from: ivaylo on February 26, 2016, 07:09:10 amYes, I did. I don't see anyone shoving it with a hockey stick.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:50:23 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 26, 2016, 07:22:23 amUmm..., it fell on its face?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:57:06 am
content: Quote from: ivaylo on February 26, 2016, 07:50:23 amBoston Dynamics one? Yes it did, and then stood up on its own.None of the Honda robots I've seen can stand up after an unexpected fall.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:10:07 am
content: Always dropped my jaw when seeing advancement in robotic.Heck, even this old video of simple bot's fingers never ceased to amaze until today, especially at tossing and "re-grasping" a cell phone by it self.https://youtu.be/-KxjVlaLBmk?t=2m38s

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:10:25 am
content: Quote from: ivaylo on February 26, 2016, 07:09:10 amBut for some reason still wasn't able to develop the robot which would compare with Atlas in movement/balance control. You poke Asimo a bit, it falls and never gets up. No chance for it to pass even a few meters in that snowy forest.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:22:17 am
content: Quote from: ivaylo on February 26, 2016, 07:50:23 amWhich robot fell on it's face? Atlas didn't fall when pushed with a hockey stick in the chest. When pushed from the back, it wasn't a hockey stick, and frankly, human would fall too from such an abuse.BTW I didn't see a single video where Asimo were be able to pick something from the floor. Or pick something heavy at all.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:35:30 am
content: I haven't seen vids of Atlas interacting with people or mixing and serving drinks, it's slower/more awkward on stairs, and needs a change of "hand" tools for different tasks unlike Asimo. Probably because Atlas is being designed as a military tool that can deal with rough terrain and Asimo is meant to be general help for people in man made environments.I can imagine in the long run the "ultimate humanoid robot" will take heavily from both lines of research.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:31:54 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on February 26, 2016, 08:35:30 amThere wasn't any video of the new atlas walking on the stairs. Comparing the overall progress is seen versus the older versions, certainly it will be completely different on the stairs too.As of being military oriented, this could be much less the priority in the last two years. Once Google bought them, quiet likely they are not so dependent on the money from military anymore.

author: Philfreeze
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:44:02 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on February 26, 2016, 08:35:30 amExactly. Asimo is a show piece or a friendly helper at best. The Atlas robots on the other hand are being developed for the worst situations (war, natural diasters etc.)

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:20:32 pm
content: Hmm OK, ... sorry didn't mean to split the camp... What I wanted to say is that my "wow" in this department was 10(?) years ago when I saw a video of the Honda thing (didn't even know its name, but was surprised even the MIT professor was saying they were inspired by it...). So now they can stand up after fall? OK, impressive... because until lately they were doing things while hanging from the sealing (why are the American ones always dressed in military drab, this one even looks like wearing a gas mask):

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:49:40 pm
content: ^ regarding to the video above. Moving hands and fingers actually is the easy part. If not having to keep the balance it is actually pretty "trivial" (comparably of course). But Asimo lacks ability to move it's body while keeping the balance. All I've seen, it could bow very lightly (knowing Japanese, it would do this much deeper if it could). All that running and jumping of Asimo actually pretty suck as it rises it's feets only a few cm high. Also It looks like all it's movements are hard programmed and it fails to adapt to the actual situation (lacks a good feedback). Look at the Atlas video at about 40-60th seconds, Asimo has not a single chance there.As what I've seen about climbing the stairs. It first takes very precise position before the first step and then starts to climb in the very programmed way. If something goes a bit unplanned, it just falls without any trying to keep the balance.What I see as a very strong side of Atlas, is it's feedback. It's movements completely depend on the actual sensing of what actually happens and adapts to it.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:17:24 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on February 26, 2016, 04:49:40 pmYour comments are spot on and agree completely with the differences in the human neurological complexity needed to accomplish those tasks. Walking, stair climbing, and simple grasping with the hands, once initiated, are all controlled by relatively simple circuitry at the spinal cord level. Balance on uneven ground, compensating for perturbations in center of gravity, or getting up from a fall, all require higher order brainstem or above function.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 12:46:53 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on February 26, 2016, 08:10:07 amWhoa, that's insane.