Ebola vs. IR Thermometers vs. Poor Training - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mbendzick
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 06:36:59 pm
content: Decided it was about time to join the forums - hello! Hopefully this could be a receptive crowd for a small rant about ebola scanning methods in airports. Yes, this is about test equipment...I've seen far too many photos of inspectors holding up an IR thermometer from 3 feet away, putting the laser dot squarely on their hand, and presuming that will tell them if the passenger has a fever and thus ebola. No! The measurement cone is way too big, and the hand is going to be colder than the rest of the body anyway! Shine the laser on their forehead from 6 inches tops please.I'm glad that these inspectors are checking to see if the wall behind the passenger has a virus that could cause it to bleed on me though. This lets me sleep at night.I did see one photo of a customs inspection station with a full IR camera running - THAT might work. Put those in the airports by me please!</rant>

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 06:40:36 pm
content: Quote from: mbendzick on October 13, 2014, 06:36:59 pmThey installed full thermal camera's at the airports during the SARS breakout... I wonder what happened to those.

author: mbendzick
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 06:44:56 pm
content: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02993/sierra-leone-scan-_2993195b.jpgYes!http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/sites/laboratoryequipment.com/files/081914_lw_ebola.jpgFail!http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03003/potd-ebola-2_3003356b.jpgYes!http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/10/07/ap859823876424_wide-baee42dc790c1c3a509ab29129790fe93476dbb0-s4-c85.jpgFail!

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 06:46:50 pm
content: security theatre, enjoy the show.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 07:21:54 pm
content: Yup, theatre. You probably would be better off simply taking each one, and then sitting them down in a room for 20 minutes then take a temperature measurement. That way the skin will reach equilibrium and those that are running a fever will stand out. Just doing it to a person who has just walked 200m from a plane will show elevated temperatures. If you are acclimated to central Africa you will feel cold and react accordingly when you hit Europe, with a cold face.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 07:40:30 pm
content: when beuraucrats meet the real world

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 07:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on October 13, 2014, 06:40:36 pmI wouldn't be at all surprised if Mike had one by now...

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 07:57:27 pm
content: I'm curious: how do they set the emissivity value in the IR thermometer?Do they change it according to skin colour?Do they use some dedicated instruments or they are standard units, such as my Uni-T?I've done some tests with my IR thermometer, and I could not find an emissivity value that resulted in a correct reading of my body temperature, even when reading from a short distance. Am I missing something?Best regards

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 08:07:52 pm
content: Core temp is almost always going to be different to skin temp, and as such you will never get a good reading. That is why you use a cavity like the ear, mouth or armpit, where you are closer to the core to measure. As to emissivity the human skin is pretty much going to be a close to ideal black body radiator irrespective of the skin colour.You really would need to have a disposable ear contact and an ear thermometer to do screening, like used in hospitals to do temperature measurement. Least invasive, and at least going to give a very accurate reading of core temperature with a little care in use. Going to have a cost per use though in the ear pieces though, and they are cheap, but not low cost. The units themselves are definitely not cheap though, and need maintenance more than just changing of batteries.Most accurate would be a probe that is placed into the core, though there you need a room, gloves, gel and a lot of trust in the operator.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 08:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 13, 2014, 08:07:52 pmI recall going to Taiwan during the SARS breakout and they had IR cameras at the airport. I don't think they look at exact temperatures but for people who are warmer than the rest.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 08:18:43 pm
content: IIRC they also had a calibration target in the area set to emit IR which was the temperature of the average human. Then they looked for warmer than that for further screening. That way you do not have to rely on the camera needing to be accurate, it just had to be somewhat linear at temperatures between 30 and 45C.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 08:37:07 pm
content: Both times I flew into O.R.Tambo International Airport (JNB) in Johannesburg, they had an IR camera aimed at the gate where they sort you to proceed to the next available passport-control window. This was long after SARS and years before the current Ebola outbreak. AFIK, it is a permanent feature of their security theater.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 09:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 13, 2014, 08:07:52 pmBetter thermal cameras should be able to measure ear cavity temperature relatively easy.Ear thermometers expensive? 40 to 80 usd and you get as good as you ever need for diagnosing fever.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 09:24:08 pm
content: The problem is not in the thermometer but in measuring the temperature of over 100,000 people in one day each day. You need a system to be able to pick out suspects in a large group of people quickly.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 09:31:34 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 13, 2014, 08:11:07 pmI was in Taiwan in the same period, they scan with a IR camera after customs in the airport but I think it was useless, to much people arrive at the same time.

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2014, 10:42:23 pm
content: They had temp video monitors in customs of the boat from Hong Kong to Shenzhen last year.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2014, 12:00:02 pm
content: Quote from: sacherjj on October 13, 2014, 10:42:23 pmWe keep getting minor outbreaks of avian flu in HK, and each time we do they start using the cameras at the airport and the border crossings. When the risk abates they put them away. The per-lane temperature probes they had at immigration during the SARS outbreak would be 13 years old now. They were removed from both the China and HK sides as the immigration counters were refurbished.