modern tech is better or is it? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 04:06:21 pm
content: so fragileremembering days when you could play football against your TV

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 07:26:09 pm
content: Without even watching it: what's your point? A modern 4K or higher TV (or display) has better sharpness and far more resolution than was available atanyprice point during the CRT era, and do it at low cost and low weight. Yes, CRTs have some advantages (like any technology), but there's a reason we stopped making them.The very, very best CRT displays ever made could be pushed (beyond their published specs) to 2560x1920 dpi at 75Hz, but individual pixels were quite blurry at that point. And don't forget that CRTs have convergence and focus errors, various geometric distortion, etc. The best ones kept those things under control quite well, but they couldn't reach the absolute perfect geometry of flat panels.In other words: don't be a whiny curmudgeon.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 07:32:10 pm
content: I watched the video, the problem with those monitors is the crappy USB-C connector that is flimsy and ends up tearing traces off the board. That's just a case of poor engineering, using a connector lacking sufficient mechanical strength. Regardless of the connector type, it should have ears with screws to hold it to the housing and take the mechanical load off the PCB.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 09:20:04 pm
content: I bought some pretty expensive CRT monitors back in the day. Every single one had geometric distortion to some degree. I was very happy when LCDs became affordable. I tossed my last CRT in the trash while it still worked because it was too heavy to move. As I expected some enterprising dumpster diver snatched it before the next day.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 09:30:07 pm
content: Perfect geometry is about the only advantage of LCD other than the weight and bulk, especially early LCD. CRTs still have superior color and contrast ratio even today, OLED is arguably better though.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 09:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 25, 2022, 09:30:07 pmIt really depends on what you're doing with the monitor. For the vast, vast majority of people LCDs represent a substantial improvement: I've got a pair of 4K monitors in front of me, they are light weight enough to hang on a simple arm bracket mounted to my desk and pixel perfect. They also consume only about 20 watts each, don't buzz, whine or flicker, and will never burn in and will probably outlast most CRTs of moderate quality. Yet they each cost less than even a 14" VGA CRT would have cost in equivalent terms today. You can't convince me that isn't a superior technology.As for LCDs having worse colour gamut, I'm not sure that's true. CRTs may have had a wider colour gamut at one point, but LCDs can exceed 100% of sRGB or 80% Rec.2020 (with silly quantum-dot LED backlights), which CRTs couldn't dream of. And for those who like infinite contrast ratio and have a big budget you can get OLED monitors now. CRTs are properly obsolete and for good reason.On reliability: My pet feeling is we had growing pains around 2000-2010 as the merger of newer technologies and cost cutting reduced reliability. However, electronics have generally increased in reliability since then. The biggest problem is when they do fail they're much harder to repair due to parts availability & modern assembly methods.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 10:56:38 pm
content: 50cm CRTs measured 20..30W (they rated 60W because of degausing coil) then LCDs cameout and all people is like my 80cm 100W LCD is much more energy efficient than that power hungry CRT.same story for LEDsI think some people dont have brains when they throw away money, possible reason why such design flaws go in production ( they dont do inhouse test for that connector )CRTs worked for up to 10y before it was pointless to invest in any repair (depends on usage and environment )new LCDs come in for repairs after 2..5y and after main board replacement they often come back again with same fault

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 11:34:52 pm
content: My 20" Sony CRT monitor drew 80-120W depending on what was being displayed, I specifically remember measuring it. LCD monitors really were more efficient, although you're right that in the case of TVs people tended to have much larger ones.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 11:38:39 pm
content: Yes, big LCD TVs may draw more power than some CRTs.. some much, much smaller CRTs with much less crisp displays, which required three feet of depth.Sometimes an increase in power consumption isn't a bad thing - I replaced the fluorescent lights in my kitchen with LEDs which draw slightlymorepower. They're two and a half times as bright as the fluorescents were at their maximum output, which they reached for all of about 10 minutes before beginning the constant and faster than you think process of becoming ever dimmer. And they don't have to warm up. And their power factor isn't at the intersection of stuff and all.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 12:13:36 am
content: "Better"? Let me address the consumer realm stuff:~~~LOL. That's a VERY simplistic broad brush. Nope, it's utter SHITE, and for a few reasons, the most annoying of which is the perpetual re-hashing of something (re-inventing the wheel continually) and it being marketed as "Ground-breaking" and "Game-changing" <CRINGE>Marketing bollocks is what makes us PERCEIVE all this crap as "better". I'd HAPPILY take the 70s or 80s, and barely ANY of this tech, but with the upside of more compassion, humanity, more community, people ACTUALLY VISITING AND TALKING AND LISTENING... and you can shove all this flimsy plastic "advanced" shite into landfill.It's a load of old horse shit.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 04:17:53 am
content: Quote from: eti on October 26, 2022, 12:13:36 amHaving a bad day today?As someone who has done professional 3D graphics and graphic design, I'll gladly take today's display tech over CRT.As stated before, better geometry, pixel perfect, light weight, not taking up half my desk, and better colour accuracy and gamut make for a happier me.My laptop has a 100% Adobe Gamut 4K panel and my external monitor is 100% sRGB. Both work great.I just wish the external panel would get around to dying so I could upgrade to a 100% Adobe gamut screen there too.Alas, I didn't buy cheap crap (it's an Eizo monitor) so I'll have to endure a good screen instead of a great screen...Having said that, you can pry my collection of small and miniature sized CRT's from my cold dead fingers.....CRT's are just cool to me somehow, LCD panels just lack a certain charm.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 05:29:39 am
content: This is all kind of beside the point anyway. The video (which it seems most people didn't watch) is covering a specific and apparently very common failure mode of that particular monitor. It's not that it's a bad looking display, or that high resolution LCDs are all junk, but that particular one frequently fails not long after the warranty is up and the repair is difficult and fiddly.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 06:45:29 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 25, 2022, 09:30:07 pmWhile I agree that OLED is on another level of awesomeness, I think only the very, very best CRTs actually exceed a decent LCD of today. We like to imagine that CRTs had perfect contrast, but they didn’t: there was some loss due to phosphor persistence, but above all, the phosphors weren’t black when off, but light gray. Most CRTs used some kind of gray contrast filter on the tube face to improve this, at the cost of reduced brightness. And the drive electronics often created a non-black background where actual black should be.Where CRTs do shine, IMHO, is viewing angle. I hate the color shifts that happen with LCD and to a lesser extent with OLED. Plasma (what I still have in my living room) is almost as good as CRT in this regard.)

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 06:50:34 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 26, 2022, 06:45:29 am+1 for plasma here. Still using a 2007 model Panasonic, it’s not even 720p, and it’s SO clear and bright, it’s not even something I care about. I’m more interested in what I’m watching than it’s geometry.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 06:58:06 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 26, 2022, 06:45:29 amModern LCDs have gotten pretty good with viewing angle, even TN. My Samsung panels have perfect (no colour distortion) viewing angle in the horizontal plane, and only very slight distortion in the vertical plane. I've never seen an OLED show colour shift from viewing angle though?The other issue with CRT contrast is internal tube blooming, so even if you managed to adjust the drive strength of the beam down to zero for zero input, a starry night would light up the back of the tube very visibly. This effect is broadly similar to the LCD blooming effect that region-dimmed LED backlit panels exhibit.In terms of reliability anecdotes: I've got a 14 year old (2008) full-HD LCD panel with CCFL backlights I use as a spare monitor. It had, from the very start of its life, cold solder joints on the IEC connector, and was found in a skip. But I fixed those and it's been fine ever since. The bathtub curve definitely applies for newer electronics too.+1 for plasma, hanging on to my 2012 Panansonic FHD panel as the living-room TV, though it will be soon be replaced with an OLED.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 07:26:23 am
content: IPS LCD is great on laptops and other professional displayTN probably they rotate viewing angle to more optimal (horizontal/45) to reduce artifacts, for IPS you need to view it in weird angle to see color distortionfor consumer LCD monitors they overdrive backlight to get more brightness/contrast ( reduced LED current by 1/3 and they look more natural)good CRTs used cathode drive stabilizer for perfect blacks (loading changed flyback voltage?? some feedback sent to video amplifiers to correct that)modified S7 cooling by replacing better thermal pad directly to CPU/PMIC and some copper tape to spread heat evenly (mod for bootup overheating) (they could have done it in factory)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 07:27:04 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 26, 2022, 06:45:29 amPlasma is fantastic, I wish it was not effectively dead. If somebody made a 19" 4x3 plasma display the arcade collectors would be happy.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 07:56:37 am
content: Yep high quality CRTs can produce some very nice images. But the modern tech has surpassed them.LCDs have gotten a lot better over the years. The response times are good enough now, they have improved in contrast and now have local dimming, the color reproduction got better, the viewing angles are much better now...etc So while a old CRT still beats a cheap LCD, it has a much tougher fight against a modern high quality LCD.Plasma i don't really see the benefit these days now that OLED is more mature. Plasma indeed used to be the next step up from CRT by having even better image quality(similar pixels but in perfect geometry). But OLED is the step up from plasma. You get the same sort of contrast, color reproduction and viewing angle as a plasma. Yet at the same time being lighter, thinner, more power efficient, simpler to drive..etc It does still suffer from burn-in like plasma, but modern OLEDs have reduced the issue quite a lot.Lots of people look back at CRTs with retro rose tinted glasses. Yes they looked absolutely amazing compared to the crappy LCDs we had back then. This is probably what gave people the impression of them being so great. Heck even i stuck with my CRT monitors until they finally died because they looked better than the LCD alternative. Compared to everything else they just looked better. However in all those years display technology has advanced a lot and we don't necessarily notice all the small incremental improvements done to it. But if you try looking at a CRT side by side to a OLED you will see how far we have gotten.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 08:02:11 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 25, 2022, 09:30:07 pmCRT doesn't have a better color compared to wide gamut LCD. OLED and dual layer LCD has better contrast than any CRT. CRT can beat LCD in contrast only in dark, in lighted room contrast of CRT totally sucks. Also you forgot about resolution and possible display size.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 09:59:33 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2022, 06:58:06 amThey for sure are way better than they used to be. But there is still enough to cause slight visible shifts from edge to edge. I think most people don’t notice, but I do. I strongly suspect it’s not actually so much an issue of the panel itself anymore, but rather of the light-orienting films used behind them. They achieve brightness and efficiency by almost eliminating off-axis (or rather, outside of the defined arc) light.Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2022, 06:58:06 amI don’t think I’ve noticed it on OLED televisions, but it’s quite pronounced on OLED phones. Really strong cyan shift in one direction. My iPhone SE has an LCD and simply loses brightness at extreme angles. The iPhones (and Samsungs) with OLED get a strong cyan shift. Really annoying to me.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 10:49:27 am
content: Perhaps the effect on OLED phones is due to an antiglare filter. OLED phones can't make the screen as bright, especially for long periods of time (try opening a web browser with a full white background on 100% brightness, after 30 seconds or so the screen will auto-dim as some thermal or integrated-time limit is reached) so they need an antiglare filter. LCDs obviously wouldn't have this limit and you can make discrete LEDs run far brighter anyway.I used to be a fan of OLEDs on phones, maybe my next phone will get an OLED, but they're more technical curiosities than anything. I'm not convinced they make the overall "owning a phone" experience much better, unless you're into HDR video playback on a 5" screen. They have a lot of downsides, such as much higher cost of repair if broken, burn in and worse battery life.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 03:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2022, 10:49:27 amAntiglare filter? Huh? No, phone OLEDs use antireflective (and oleophobic) coatings, not antiglare filters. I suspect it’s caused by the asymmetrical subpixel sizes (and shapes and positions) on OLED displays.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 03:53:26 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 26, 2022, 05:29:39 amWell done for the only comment in the thread relevant to the videoEveryone else is typing before they know what they're commenting on

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 04:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 26, 2022, 07:56:37 amI don't have to look back, I have lots of CRTs in service still. There's a nice 27" Sony XBR downstairs that is used mostly for the vintage console games. I have a collection of arcade cabinets that all have the original CRT monitors, I have a 15" Sony studio monitor that will do 1080i, it looks amazing. I also have several vintage computers with CRT monitors, nothing else out there looks quite like a good CRT. Lack of a fixed grid of pixels is inherently superior IMO when displaying multiple different resolutions. OLED does look fantastic, if the made a 4:3 OLED I think that would be a good CRT replacement in some applications.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 04:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2022, 10:49:27 amThe thing that has kept me from getting an OLED phone is that they're all huge and/or have a notch or hole punch in the screen. I can't wait for the stupid obsession with eliminating bezels dies off, I absolutely cannot stand flaws in a display. A hole punch or notch is no different to me than a large cluster of bad pixels, and I think it's funny how fanboys will get behind those but nobody would accept a device that had a big clump of defective pixels.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 04:30:13 pm
content: QuoteThat's one way of looking (sorry!) at it. Another way is to consider a rectangular display withadditionaltabs above it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 04:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on October 26, 2022, 04:30:13 pmBut that's not how it ends up working. When you play full screen video part of the video is obstructed by the notch or hole, it looks awful. Either way I absolutely cannot stand it, just give me an uninterrupted rectangular display. The war against bezels is utterly stupid, bezels serve a useful purpose. They give you something to hold onto, and frame the image. Likewise usually when someone hangs a photo or painting on the wall they put it in a frame. They add a purely decorative bezel around the image, it makes it stand out.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 05:10:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 26, 2022, 04:51:54 pmI have a bezel, and a notch, and no holes in video. Strange.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 05:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2022, 10:49:27 amYeah some OLEDs can get a bit rainbowy at very shallow viewing angles, but you can't read the display anyway at such extreme angles so i don't even notice it. The colors look perfectly stable to me at any normal angles one might use it at (like up to 60 deg off axis).They are great screens for phones tho. Yes they might use more power when displaying a fully white screen, but when only parts of the screen are white they use less power than LCD. This can be taken advantage of on a phone by selecting a dark theme, so most of it is black, this makes OLEDs consume way less power than a LCD while also being brighter (since it never has to protect itself by dimming). Sure sunlight readability on OLED is not great, but then again modern LCDs are also not great and need cranking of the backlight to max (The older transflective type screens did this much better). Burnin is also a lot less pronounced in modern screens, Had a OLED display phone for many years and shows zero burn in.Quote from: james_s on October 26, 2022, 04:21:55 pmRetro gaming is indeed one good use for CRTs. The scan lines are part of the look, so is the blinking scan frequency of the display along with the instant response time of throwing video voltage directly into the electron gun.Quote from: james_s on October 26, 2022, 04:25:29 pmThe notch is not a OLED exclusive thing, they figured out how to give notches to LCD screen phones too (Tho i think the hole punch camera design is OLED exclusive, but i might be wrong).However the phones OS is aware of the very top and bottom (due to rounded corners) is a special part of the screen. By default those areas of the screen are not given to the application to use as screen space. Those areas hold the OS status bar(top) or the navigation buttons(bottom), heck if you use a dark theme that makes surrounding pixels black you can't even tell where the screen ends. So think of this as having 3 screens on the front. 1 main screen and then 2 small screens that serve to show status or reconfigurable touch buttons. The implementation really makes the difference. Just that if an application specifically asks for it the OS will still give it use of that area, so yes it is possible to watch a youtube video with rounded corners and a chunk missing where the camera is, but by default it won't, you need to actually tell it to do it (and it looks awful i agree).The one thing i do think is a downside is that having too little of a border makes it easy to accidentally touch the screen there. But i keep my phone in a bit of a bulkier rubber case and that fixes the issue.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 06:57:07 pm
content: QuoteDoes it? Oh, OK, that would annoy me too! But so would having the notification bar visible as well... One would think they could just blank that bit and suit most people, but perhaps the bar can either be shown or overlayed but not blanked.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 07:33:33 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on October 26, 2022, 06:57:07 pmMaybe there's a way to change it, but this is what it looks like on my friend's iphone, I was in disbelieve that Apple would do something like that, I'm quite confident that Steve Jobs would have put his foot down and never let that happen. The latest Macbooks fixed almost everything I don't like about the one I have for work, but then they ruined it by putting a stupid notch in the screen. I know it doesn't bother a lot of people but I'm kind of OCD and it drives me crazy, I can't stand it. I really dislike the lack of a physical home button in the latest phones too.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 08:37:12 pm
content: That's where you put your thumb when holding the phone

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 09:59:17 pm
content: The problem is the ambient light sensor is in that area. If covered with your thumb, the phone will think it is dark and will dim the screen.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 10:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on October 26, 2022, 06:57:07 pmYou just have to accept that you bought that device knowing of the design, and where the obstruction is (or you'd have done due diligence and researched, pre-purchase). Personally, my brain doesn't care a hoot that a TINY percentage of a video is missing - I bought the thing, and tbh, you soon adjust to it, there's more important things in life for me to get hung up on (and then we have the "pixel-peepers" who obsess that something "isn't high res enough" - like it actually matters)One thing I used to do, and subsequently forced myself NOT to do, years ago, was to make a purchase/pre-plan a purchase, and then actively seek out, via Google, "<name of product X> known defects"; if you want a needless anxiety and frustration rabbit hole to disappear down for a day or so, DO THAT, lol.Life is too short. I am speaking from one who has wasted a fair bit on complaining, and I see it in myself as something I try to minimise (and before anyone says, yes, I think, by now I might JUST BE AWARE of my posting habits, and am attempting to change them when I can.)I do not mean the above as a "put up with it!" response, but I'd try and ignore it - it really ISN'T that huge an issue; it only is if you obsess over it, and is it REALLY worth it?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 10:27:49 pm
content: Define "better".If you mean overall durability, the answer is both yes and no. I think there is a greater variation of products these days, compared for say, 30 years ago. Everything from the cheapest, nastiest Chinese garbage through to premium high quality products.If you mean in terms of performance and capabilities, then the answer is a resounding "yes". Technology has come a long way and is only getting better.I'll take a 4K OLED over "not being able to play football inside the house" any day.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 10:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 26, 2022, 10:27:49 pmThere's no such thing as "premium" these days, only when it is ENFORCED by law for industrial-grade stuff that has VERY rigid laws about how it HAS to stand up to X abuse for X years/decades ... and then they'd not even bother trying that marketing baloney, as it's made to order for engineers who know better, and the companies making it KNOW this, and wouldn't bother trying it on, and in industry you don't get to "market to" the customer in this same manner[shortform: consumer grade customers are ignorant and believe what they're told]. The *IMAGE* of "premium" is marketed to death, I feel, but the reality is different. Your 4K TV which is SOLD as "premium" (and no matter WHICH brand) is carefully calculated to go out of warranty, and then... "oh look, it died!"You say "Technology has come a long way" - I beg to differ. The dots on the TV are packed closer together, some chips have got faster the thing is thinner to RIDICULOUS levels (not sure why we NEED a TV as thin as paper - not like ya gonna carry it round the house) and the "apps" have multiplied like bacteria, most of which are useless, spammy noise. The junk coming through the cable is EXPONENTIALLY WORSE than the quality programmes we used to have (at least here in England, and we are condescended to on EVERY level of TV programming).How is this "Better"? It's DEMONSTRABLY WORSE.When words like "premium", "Pro model" etc are bandied to death, they lose all meaning. Companies ONLY care about the NEXT sale, not taking care of the current thing they sold ya.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2022, 11:01:14 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 26, 2022, 10:41:37 pmI guess that depends on how you define "premium". For me a premium laptop would be something like a Lenovo ThinkPad or a hard drive such as the Hitachi/WD Ultrastar's. I certainly wouldn't put them in the "industrial" market. The same goes for "prosumer" equipment like cameras and audio gear. Those would be classed as premium products in my books.As for TV's, I have to disagree. The image quality is getting better and better all the time. I just replaced my TV earlier in the year and it's orders of magnitude better compared to my 6-year old Phillips unit. Not only does Google TV run faster than the proprietary stuff that Philips implemented, but the contrast, brightness, resolution, image quality and digital corrective features are in completely different leagues. That being said, this is why I went for a premium brand like Sony, as opposed to the cheap crap you buy from Kogan that has questionable hardware specifications. As for what is actually broadcast on TV/internet, yeah, you could argue it's garbage, but I don't subscribe or watch any of that stuff. 95% of my content I watch comes from my self-hosted Plex server. I honestly don't recall the last time I actually saw an ad on TV.In terms of the all the "apps", well, that comes down to the unit you decide to purchase. I bought a Google TV so I can specifically uninstall the crap that I don't need (and more importantly, install the applications I do need, like the native Plex client). It makes for a very clean experience.Ultimately, the "quality" of the TV comes down to robustness/longevity, its ability to perform functions as one would expect (without lag, glitching) and its ability to display images and audio to an acceptable quality. Everything else is beyond the scope.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 12:54:38 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 26, 2022, 11:01:14 pmI wouldn't class the "ThinkPad" range as consumer grade laptops. Consumers may buy them, but I can count on two FINGERS the people I know with these NASA certified tanks; me, and my Uncle. The fact that they are, afaik, the ONLY laptops NASA has certified and used for decades, says a lot to me. "IdeaPad" range, if they still exist, I am told are utter landfill fodder. I still have an R500, and its been bashed, smacked, dropped, and not a single war wound, and it STILL works. I am not one for thin, fly-away paper laptops, and I like the chunky doorstep profileI don't recall EVER having seen a TV ad for ThinkPad; that would be considered VERY tacky and low-brow, considering who they are aimed at. Whenever I see one on TV, in a business or someone's home, I say aloud "Look, SOMEONE with a brain!". Consumers LOVE to be led along like sheep with this"New! Better! Better than last year's 'best EVERRR' "BS.The amount of people who ask me"Which is the best brand of computer?"only serves to confirm this.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 01:03:25 am
content: Thinkpads are everywhere, I probably have 5 or so of them including the one I'm using now, my daily driver is a X250. I know loads of people that have them, yes they're not really targeted at consumers but quite a lot of tech oriented people have them.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 01:17:55 am
content: I have one.

author: cortex_m0
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 02:55:23 am
content: Quote from: eti on October 26, 2022, 10:41:37 pmI'm sorry, are you're complaining that the TVs are higher resolution, but thinner and weigh less than the CRTs of the 90s or the plasmas of the 2000s? Name me one advantage if I put an extra 3 cm of thickness and an extra 300g of weight from the larger housing in your TV.Smart TVs cost less than the combination of a "dumb" TV and a set top streaming box (Apple TV, Roku). Often quite a lot less. That's why they won the market. Yes, the pre installed apps are there to advertise streaming services to you. But they are also a matter of convenience for the masses.QuoteRepeat after me:The programs are not the tech.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 04:04:05 am
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 12:54:38 amI would. I class anything as "consumer grade" if it's readily available for purchase by anyone. You can jump onto Lenovo's website and just order one as an individual. Which is why I would put them in the high-end of the consumer bracket, but yes, they also cross over into the commercial market. You often find a lot of "power users" (I hate that term), buying them because of their capabilities and build quality. I personally use a ThinkPad P1 as my daily driver.Product I wouldn't classify as "consumer" would be devices which you typically (but not exclusively) need to have an account with a reseller or distributor for. A lot of higher-end computer networking equipment tends to fall into this category, as does some video and photography products.The line isn't clear and it certainly depends on your interpretation of it, but the above is just my opinion.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 04:22:29 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 26, 2022, 07:33:33 pmIf you mainly watch YouTube 16:9 content (or slightly wider) you won't see the notch, it's not default behaviour. You have to specifically "zoom to fill" if you want to see the notch on most content. The default native iOS video player will also hide the notch by default even on 21:9 content, but all bets are off on third party apps (like YouTube grrrrrr).Apple usually has a very generous return policy for the holidays, so keep an eye on in November for them to announce it. You'll be able to try the phone for like 2 months.I have to bring up this meme again.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 05:51:25 am
content: Quote from: Berni on October 26, 2022, 05:22:13 pmIndeed, as the graphics were designed for the softer pixels, and look much better, screen size being equal, on a CRT vs anything modern. There's a pic I saw demonstrating this that I might add to my post when I get home from work, if I remember.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 05:56:47 am
content: The YouTube app on a Samsung S52 (Android 12) does not use the camera punch area to show video unless you zoom in to force video into that area. Maybe it is a iOS problem. In general on Android the apps have to specifically ask to use that area of the screen, so and legacy apps that don't know about this don't get to draw UI there while the OS continues to use the area for the status bar.But yes default settings on Android tend to make the status bar white so the camera hole is very obvious whenever the phone is on. I assume this is more of a style choice to show off the phone being modern enough to have a holepunch camera. Unfortunately mobile phone design is driven by fads. Just change to a theme that makes the status bar black and you won't notice the hole/notch.Quote from: Halcyon on October 27, 2022, 04:04:05 amYep there is no razor sharp line between consumer and professional products.Most products are the "average Joe consumer" products where it just has to be cheap and have whatever features are popular at the time, performance is secondary. But there are still plenty of products that are aimed at more demanding costumers, yet are still sold by simply walking into a store or clicking buy in a webshop.For example a lot of professional video/audio production equipment is available to anyone with deep enough pockets. In terms of networking Mikrotik sells routers/APs in just general stores even tho it is actually a professional grade router running the same software that the big rack routers running entire companies use. You likely won't be able to even open ports on this router without a step by step tutorial (unless you are an actual professional network engineer). Yet you can still just walk into a store and buy one.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:09:25 am
content: Quote from: cortex_m0 on October 27, 2022, 02:55:23 amThey cost less because they are subsidized by the personal data they gather. This is exactly why they are crap, and frankly I can't understand why anyone would ever connect one to the internet. Even if you have a smart TV you should never use the smart part, plug in an external player that doesn't spy on you or serve ads.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:12:50 am
content: Quote from: deadlylover on October 27, 2022, 04:22:29 amI can try one any time I want, I have numerous friends that have had them for years, I can't stand the notch and would never buy one. I'm sticking with my 2016 iPhone SE as long as I can possibly keep it going, I like the small form factor, physical home button and un-interrupted screen. I hate how enormous phones have gotten, even the new SE is larger than I'd prefer.Regarding that meme "what you think you want" is in fact what I want, and f*** anyone who thinks they can tell me what I actually want.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:26:25 am
content: Quote from: Bud on October 26, 2022, 09:59:17 pmAt least on iPhones, I don’t think that happens: the ambient light sensor is also the proximity sensor, so if it detects it’s covered, it doesn’t adjust display brightness. (I have an iPhone SE, so no notch or “dynamic island”, and if I cover the sensors, it doesn’t adjust brightness.)With that said, the narrow border on my iPad Pro causes me to frequently press things when just carrying around the iPad (e.g. while playing a video). I get that narrower borders mean a larger display in a given device size, but IMHO usability suffers. I’d rather they have slightly larger borders, and use that space for more battery still (though iPad battery life is superb) and to add extra selfie cameras so that you’re centered in both landscape and portrait video calls.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:29:06 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 06:26:25 amIt wouldn't have to be very big, 3-5mm wider bezel around the device would result in the overall size increasing by less than 10mm for a significant boost in usability. The notch is even more stupid on the Macbook, it is totally unnecessary and I think they did it on purpose to get the distinctive brand look, which of course random Chinese companies will copy right away.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:32:36 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 27, 2022, 06:12:50 amI hear you. I really wanted an iPhone 13 mini, but I generally keep phones 3-4 years and I’m not due for another year or two — and they’ve discontinued the mini already! 😭 (Well, you can still buy the 13 mini, but there’s no 14 mini.) I don’t understand why more people don’t want smaller phones.Remember the 90s and early 2000s where the cellphone makers were in an arms race to make smaller phones, and we ended up with things the size of a C battery? ::sigh::

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:39:52 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 27, 2022, 06:29:06 amAgreed on the iPad.Not so much on the MacBook, since it’s not a touchscreen and thus there’s no advantage to a bezel. And since the Mac has the fixed menu bar at the top (so it’s almost never screen area controlled by the application), it’s really easy for the OS to avoid the notch intelligently. In exchange you get more vertical real estate, which is sorely lacking on modern widescreens.I remember using the Macintosh Portrait Display, a 15” vertical grayscale CRT (640x870px). Lovely to work on for office type work. I occasionally attach my old 24” (1920x1200) LCD as a secondary display, pivoted vertically, for document editing.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:40:45 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 06:32:36 amI miss those days.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 06:45:04 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 27, 2022, 06:40:45 amDo you?They were good until they got so small the screen connector got so tiny and flimsy you had to squeeze the phone to see the display.

author: cortex_m0
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:31:23 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 27, 2022, 06:09:25 amAre there streaming boxes that fit this profile? The ones I've tried all serve ads, at a minimum.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 02:10:16 pm
content: What do you need to stream? I use a PC, but I only watch youtube. They've made changes in recent times to where I can't get videos to play without unblocking google, but I still don't see ads.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 02:36:54 pm
content: If you need ZERO ads on YouTube, install Chrome OS inside a disk image using "sebanc brunch" framework, as Chrome OS can install and run Android apps... THEN install "Smart YouTube TV" app (APK) ... NO ADS EVER!!!!You install Chrome OS into a disk image using either your current windows or Ubuntu OS, so that doing so doesn't alter your partition table. It's simple as pie! Google "sebanc brunch"I've been using "Smart YouTube TV" app for well over two years, not one SINGLE and, and no DNS messing needed. You can also configure it to auto skip in-video sponsor messages etc. Brilliant!!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 08:02:58 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 06:39:52 amThe advantage is that there's no stupid notch, a controversial feature that may not bother you but it bothers many people, I know at least one person who was all stoked to buy one of the new MBPs when he discovered it had a notch. That would prevent me from considering one too if I was in the market. I shouldn't have to avoid the notch, there's no excuse for it to be there in the first place. Make the bezel a few measly mm taller and it wouldn't be necessary. Un-interrupted screen is an absolutely mandatory non-negotiable feature to me.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 08:03:46 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on October 27, 2022, 02:10:16 pmI stream absolutely everything, 100% of my TV usage is streaming and has been for years. It's the future of TV.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 08:05:27 pm
content: Quote from: cortex_m0 on October 27, 2022, 11:31:23 amI made my own with a Raspberry Pi and it doesn't have ads. My girlfriend has a couple of Roku boxes and I've never seen an ad on one of those. If I did see an ad on any device I bought it would promptly be boxed back up and returned for a refund. Ads baked into hardware I paid for are absolutely not welcome and not acceptable.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 08:55:23 pm
content: Is all this streaming TV free? I'm guessing no, because if I was paying to watch something and they tried to stack ads on top of that, I'd be pretty ticked off too.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 09:08:05 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on October 27, 2022, 08:55:23 pmNetflix now have a tier that does that. The CHEEK! Talk about "Wanting to have your cake AND eat it"!

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 09:19:37 pm
content: Sky have been doing that since forever.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 09:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 25, 2022, 07:26:09 pmIIRC LG Flatron monitors had excellent geometry. The best I have seen ever. The high end brand Eizo had CRT monitors that used digital convergence control which worked very well on big monitors. But yes, flat panels kick the crap out of CRT. Unfortunately software makers have started to blur lines and text that basically undo all the sharpness we can get from TFT screens so we are back to blurry images again that are worse than a good CRT monitor

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 10:02:30 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on October 27, 2022, 08:55:23 pmThere is free ad-supported streaming, subsidized ad-supported streaming that you pay something for, and paid ad-free streaming, the latter is the only one I would consider. I've hosted my own streaming service with Plex for several years now and it is "free" in that I don't pay for the service itself but I bought most of the content and ripped the discs.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 10:23:04 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on October 27, 2022, 09:19:37 pmWhat annoys me is the NERVE of how the system works; you watch a video, and are FORCED to watch two UTTERLY inane, idiotic GenX-designed ads.... app crashed? Ooops, sorry Sir, not OUR fault Sir, here's two MORE ads (often the same ones) - thankfully ALL my gadgets block them stone cold.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 10:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 09:08:05 pmNetflix is pushing a bunch of woketard series and movies. It's not worth even 1 penny.But their share has lost more than half of its value in the past few months, so. Good riddance.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:05:41 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 27, 2022, 09:27:18 pmSony and Mitsubishi probably had the best CRT computer displays out there. LG wasn’t as far (they didn’t even have aperture grille CRTs, IIRC). Not saying they were bad, just not the top.Many high end CRTs had advanced digital control of the geometry. Digital control was absolutely the norm for the final 10 years or so of the CRT’s dominance, though of course simpler versions in cheaper models.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:17:39 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 27, 2022, 10:49:14 pmAnd a WHOLE SLEW of "LGBT" trash. Gimme a break, we don't ALL want to be woked-to!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:18:33 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 11:17:39 pmThen don't watch it, and while you're at it, stop bitching about it. Nobody wants to hear you complain the world is changing.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:19:35 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 11:17:39 pmLGBTIQ++!!111 or otherwise, television is mostly garbage these days. I would sooner watch episodes of "Queer Eye" than "Married at First Sight" or anything involving "influencers" (I'm sorry, that's not a real job).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 11:17:39 pmAs a gay person, I’m glad it’s there. You don’t have to watch it. (Though maybe you should, so it will become normalized to you.) Heck,Idon’t watch all of them, because many are crap, just like many non-LGBT shows.But don’t think for a second that you get to shove us back into the closet just because you don’t like being reminded that LGBT people exist. We do, we always have, and we’re not going anywhere.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 11:23:42 pmThey're just jealous because they aren't one of the cool kids.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:31:21 pm
content: Calm down guys, I don't find it appealing - it IS mostly crap, but don't make me spell it out... it is JUST the opinion of me, a stranger, and I DO think it is crap, but you DO NOT have to agree, any more than I have to side with you that it is "good".There, we are all mutual strangers, so why my views should concern other strangers is beyond me... you liking it is fine by me (and why wouldn't it be!) ; most TV is crap anyway, so yeah... watch what you want, it's your life

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 11:23:42 pmI said theprogrammesare trash, not that you are. Take it easy

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 27, 2022, 11:19:35 pmOf course not all TV is good, but I think it’s completely wrong to say that TV is mostly trash “these days” (implying that it used to be better). I think the exact opposite is the case, and I am not alone in saying this: the last 10-20 years are beingdescribed as a “golden age” of televisionbecause thebestTV that’s being made now isspectacularlygood. (Who cares what theaveragequality is — there’s not enough time in the world to watch it all, so we may as well focus on the best of the best only.) The Sopranos and the Wire are often cited as the first of these top-quality shows, then Breaking Bad, and (to list some favorites of mine) Schitt’s Creek, The Good Place, Black Mirror, Sense8, Heartstopper, Squid Game, Dark, Orange is the New Black, Altered Carbon, La casa de papel, and numerous others.Something that I think is awesome about Netflix is that they bring to the world stage the best of TV shows from around the world. Before that, very few shows from anywhere other than Hollywood made it very far from their countries of origin. (In particular in USA, there was extremely little foreign TV.) I am absolutely delighted to get to see shows from around the world, with high quality subtitles. (Netflix’s translation quality standards are far above industry-standard for non-children’s programming. I say that because Disney’s dubs are olympic-class.)What I thinkisunusually bad now is the movies: Hollywood has apparently forgotten that it is in fact possible to make a movie that isn’t based on Marvel or DC Comics characters.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 11:34:21 pmI understood you perfectly. I never said you said we were trash.I just said you don’t get to shove us back in the closet because you don’t like seeing that LGBT people exist.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 11:43:34 pmNow there's a show to rile up the homophobes. Sadly cancelled because it was a little too open minded for the masses.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2022, 11:54:29 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 11:44:38 pmYoufeel I am doing that (you do not know me, my heart or my intentions, so not sure it matters that much) you aretakingan offence that was not given to you and does not exist. I understand a lot of hatred is aimed at LGBT etc, and that is ghastly, however, would you like to hyper-promote "straight pride!" "straight TV!"? Nope. I accept people literally as they are, and I was referring to TV networks compulsion to FORCE it too much to OVER cater - you should be MORE offended by that - black people can see right through the "token black man" BS etc, and don't stand for it, so why do you feel SO enthused about being "catered to"? That would annoy the #### out of me, no matter what my "cause" or group in life. Being pandered to and pacified is annoying AS.Not agreeing with something, or not wanting to see it all the time, is not an umbrella "hatred" - that is exceptionally immature an outlook to have (and somewhat convenient when people want to build straw men) - I don't like ANYTHING rammed down my throat, but it's offensive because it's WAY WAY overboard, brazen and forced, and I would NOT want my children seeing that, nor should anyone. Simple, and a responsible adult can see that.I have no idea about "closets" or "BLM" or whatever, but no one is OBLIGED to meekly sit by and pretend they like it, and a CIVIL opinion is not a sin, and should not offend anyone - go and do what you feel you want to, I have other interests, it's up to you ain't it.Okay I'll leave that subject alone now, sorry if I hurt you.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 12:08:51 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 27, 2022, 11:50:11 pmWell, the main theory is that it was canceled because it was super expensive to produce, since it was filmed with an ensemble cast on location in 13 cities around the world.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 12:24:30 am
content: Quote from: eti on October 27, 2022, 11:54:29 pmI didn’t say I was offended, and I never said anything about hatred.But regardless of how “accepting” youthinkyou are, when you describe theexistenceof LGBT shows as the networks “ramming it down your throat” and as things you would “not want your children seeing”, “nor should anyone”, then you’re actually saying you don’t want you or your children to even see theexistenceof LGBT people. That doesn’t sound particularly accepting in reality. It sounds like our existence disgusts you.Meanwhile, after decades of essentially all LGBT portrayals in the media falling squarely into one of two categories (campy comic relief, or tragedy, often called the “kill the gays” trope), for LGBT people, the past ~5 years have finally brought us something we sorely needed: portrayals of LGBT people and couples as normal people and normal couples. (You can’t imagine how cathartic this has been for a lot of us. We weep for the fact we didn’t have any such depictions to see when we were kids, but we weep with joy that today’s LGBT kids do.) We had “token gay character” garbage for decades, within the aforementioned framework of comic relief or tragedy. So that’s not what we’re happy about. We’re happy about the recent stuff where LGBT characters are full-fledged human beings for whom being LGBT is just a part of who they are, not their defining (or sole) characteristic. We finally have shows where a couple happens to be gay, but nothing about their story is aboutbeinggay. Examples of healthy relationships that just happen to be LGBT, but could just have well not been.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 12:26:15 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 28, 2022, 12:08:51 amTV & film Co these days seem to have this imaginary "formula", that:Lots of famous, acclaimed actors + amazing venues + $1BN++ thrown at it = guaranteed success. A product HAS to be more than the mere sum of its parts, and throwing all these things together doesn't mean jack. I see it ALL the time, and I reckon it's arrogance. Amazon did this recently (my friend told me) with LOTR; had to drop it because, well, it was rubbish.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 12:30:54 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 28, 2022, 12:24:30 amokay. I am sorry you feel offended. BTW, you've offended meintentionallyon many an occasion with snippy, snotty and supercilious comments, and yet this was anunintentionaloffence and not even aimed AT YOU. Shall we drop it now? I think we may be "even", if you're into "tallies" (I'm not), and I sure ain't risking my account status for this. Be angry at society, not at individuals, esp when they haven't been hateful. I am no more obliged to agree with you than you are with me - we are at a stalemate.Cheers mate.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 08:00:55 am
content: Don't know how this conversation shifted to TV but I think that current TV and films are about as good as they have ever been, if you take the "top 10%" of what is being shown for instance, that has never been better. The problem is that Hollywood figured out superhero movies bring in the big bucks (they're just boring now - wow, good guy superhero has character defects, say it isn't so) and whatever the TV equivalent of Hollywood is figured out that reality TV is really cheap to produce. You have to ignore that crap.If you filter out that crap, then I'd say it's never been a better time to consume 'media', as a form of entertainment. You can't make it the only part of your life, but it's nice to unwind and watch something likeThe Expanse, which would have never existed in the days of Star Trek because it simply wasn't possible to have that level of imagery, filmmaking and CGI on a television show budget.In general, besides a few negatives here and there, I think we're still living in the golden age for humans. There are serious growing pains, but if it were somehow possible, I would not want to go and live in the 50's under some delusion that things were better in the past.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 09:40:24 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2022, 11:05:41 pmIt is likely you never came across one because these where released right before flat panels became the norm so likely not many Flatron monitors got onto the market. Back in the old days I used to sell PCs to earn some money while studying and it struck me these LG CRT screen where so good compared to anything other CRT based out there (including the Sony Trinitron that gives me an instant headache). And you don't have to take my word for it (random Google find):https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/sro563/who_said_lg_flatron_crts_are_crap_this_is_the/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 09:50:00 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 27, 2022, 11:50:11 pmIMHO more because the story was more or less complete. Having a second or even third season would mean to invent some ludicrous story arc that kills the vibe. Many initially good TV series that got extra seasons added to them suffered from that. Hands up who enjoyed season 5 & 6 of 'House of cards'... I didn't even watch season 6.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 07:49:11 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 28, 2022, 09:50:00 amHuh? Are you sure you’re thinking of the right series? When Sense8 was canceled, it was anything but “complete”. To the point that fans nagged and nagged Netflix to resurrect it, to which Netflix said “it ain’t coming back, stop asking”, which of course made people write that much more, until Netflix caved and agreed to a single 2h special to wrap it up.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 08:02:38 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 28, 2022, 07:49:11 pmYup, and that 2 hour end-of-series final episode was good enough to wrap up the story. IIRC budgets where already far exceeded for Sense8 because the creators got rather carried away with adding even more to the story.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2022, 08:12:29 pm
content: I was glad we got the 2h special, but it definitely felt rushed.