Ideal christmas gift for the obsessive-compulsive hobbyist - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 06:11:25 am
content: Gossen Metrahit 30M1,200,000 counthttp://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/resources/tt/hit30m/db_gb.pdf

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 06:15:17 am
content: Dear lord, buying an obsessive-compulsive a 6.5 digit multimeter is like buying an alcoholic a large bottle of vodka. You'll just exacerbate the problem...

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 06:18:49 am
content: Happiness is the key word here

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 06:39:28 am
content: Some teardown pictures:http://sigrok.org/wiki/Gossen-Metrawatt_METRAHIT_30M20MHz crystal! 15 hours battery life3 big 12V relaysHigh precision AD637 RMS to DC converterhttp://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/48119/AD/AD637JR.htmlAD705J Picoampere Input Current bipolar OpAmphttp://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/48158/AD/AD705JCHIPS/25/1/AD705JCHIPS.htmlmA range only, with polyswitch input protectionSocketed IC! (First time I see that on a portable DMM)

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 06:59:40 am
content: count your pennies, a penny per count (oops, missed a digit, so many of them)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 07:25:54 am
content: Quote from: staxquad on December 01, 2013, 06:59:40 amA penny per 10 counts actually, bargain! The Fluke 87 V only gives you one count for 2 pennies.http://www.instrumentation2000.com/gmcinstrumentsmetrahit30mtrms65digitmultimeter.aspxIncidentally, I see that GMC Instruments (Gossen) sells most of the Metrahit meters on this site.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 08:13:38 am
content: Nice meter. Shame about the price. Personally I'd take a 34461A instead for the same sort of money.

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 09:00:15 am
content: Errrrrrrrrrr NO £754.80 UK, she would leave, "I'm thinking" Hmmmmmm where can I buy oneONLY JOKING

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 09:05:59 am
content: Sure, you pay extra for portability of course. Gossen managed to cram a lot of features in a relatively small enclosure.4-wire resistance and 4-wire temperature measurements, seldom found on portable DMMs, 30,000 datapoints in memory and mains connection.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 09:09:46 am
content: 6.5 digits and only 2 wires for measurement ? hum ...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 10:02:37 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 01, 2013, 09:09:46 amIf you check the picture, you will see, it has 4W measurement.But it is still ridiculous. Why would anyone need 6.5 digit on the go?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 10:07:37 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 01, 2013, 10:02:37 amVolt-nutter with lack of self confident on travel ?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 10:13:30 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 01, 2013, 10:02:37 amBut why is it necessary to have large boxes occupying lots of shelf and rack space in a workshop? In most areas of technology things have been compacted. Phones have been reduced from heavy bricks to pocket sized. Why shouldn't measurement instruments be reduced in size similarly?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 11:23:54 am
content: There must be a market for these, otherwise Gossen wouldn't have bothered.On the other hand, unlike their popular ranges, most of their specialist meters haven't been updated yet, which probably means that current demand doesn't really justify the investment in new expensive designs.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 12:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on December 01, 2013, 10:13:30 amI'm perfectly happy with 2U sized multimeters. I fact I have one above my bench at work. It is more reliable than any handheld. Why? Because every now and then a guy comes and takes your multimeter because "I wanno mesur 24 volta", and I cannot guard my equipment 24/7, not to mention, they feel entitled to take the tools I need for work.You only need 6.5 digit for production testing or design verification. None of these require mobility.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 01:01:20 pm
content: Taking this one back to the lab may present a problem:

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 01:18:06 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on December 01, 2013, 01:01:20 pmYou lack of imagination, not the whole thing silly.Only parts of it which can fit into your car, the most expensive ones of course, then ebay them ... wait .... hell, call Chinese embassy and offer them to their official science officers from the PRC politbiro.Finally grab the piles of cash from that transactions to buy other "piles" of gadgets of your dream with plenty of spare cash for retirement.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 01:38:57 pm
content: I suppose a$57 pair of cutterswould be nice as a present. Not something I could justify buying for myself but I would gladly accept them if given.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 02:13:33 pm
content: Don't forget that you need two of these meters to make simultaneous measurements! Yes, this meter could be useful in certain situations although it might be pretty difficult to get reliable 6.5 digit measurements in the field.

author: andtfoot
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 02:47:15 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 01, 2013, 01:38:57 pmGiven how cheap that is for (presumably) decent cutters, I could easily justify buying a set.A 1.2 squillion count multimeter..... maybe not so much.

author: Kappes Buur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 03:40:50 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 01, 2013, 01:38:57 pmI remember at a local electronics product show some 35 years ago, a rep was showing off Lindström 80-Series cutters by cutting large paper clips repeatedly. Then, at ~ 70 $ each, they were extremely expensive. I bought two of them, different sizes, and still use them today.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 04:03:41 pm
content: I have an old pair of flush cutters with blue grips that I have used for over 20 years. No markings on them so I don't know what kind they are. Still not a mark on them. I'm sure I did not pay over $12 for them. Wish I knew who made them.Bought a couple pairs of Xcelite flush cutters recently.Not happy with them at all. Tips are not ground properly. They cut OK but the tips are blunt and uneven lengths and width.That $57 pair is looking pretty good. Santa?

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 05:01:46 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 01, 2013, 01:38:57 pmWhy hesitate when it's only $19.99 (new)?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tronex-cutter-5511-/291027620382?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c299121ebid $19.99, and if someone outbids you, wait for the next (a few haven't sold, most sold for $19.99, with just a few with more money than patience)http://www.ebay.com/sch/candelo08/m.html?item=291027620382&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c299121e&LH_Complete=1&rt=ncor a Tronex tip cutter for $25 (new) (I won my 7288E for $13 (4 bids), I guess the seller wasn't too pleased with that price, so put the next one up for $45, didn't sell; $39, didn't sell; $39, didn't sell; now $25..., has active buy it now for both 7170E, 7288E at $45)(the 7000 series Exceltas are all Tronex, 7170E, 7288E)http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excelta-7170E-Five-Star-6-25-inch-7100-Series-Fine-Tip-Cutter-NR-/360800904190?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item540168e3fe

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 05:37:00 pm
content: I hesitate because its $19.99 + $20 shipping to europe + $16 import duties ...

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 05:43:07 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 01, 2013, 05:37:00 pma deal for Americans, for everybody else it's a lot more in shipping and dutieshere's something NICE I've been watching for a while, still haven't pulled the triggerA made in Sweden Lindstrom piano wire cutters, new old stock (seller's got a whole lot of other NOS Swedish Lindstromshttp://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&item=350466815198&_osacat=0&_ssn=jrwoodca&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=lindstrom&_sacat=0&_from=R40)What irks me is that it will ship to the USA for $9.50, but to Canada for $12.50, plus Canadians have to pay 13% tax on top of that, the seller is in Canada. So if it's in the USA, cheaper for Americans, and if it's in Canada, cheaper for Americans, Canadians can suck eggs.it's been selling for US $29.62, will go back to that price soon (sale on, sale off, sale on, sale off)http://www.ebay.com/itm/LINDSTROM-Jeweler-5-Diagonal-Piano-Wire-Cutter-1613-50-/350466815198

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 07:04:21 pm
content: Quote from: staxquad on December 01, 2013, 05:01:46 pmThe first ones aren't flush cutting so they are not an option. The second set look pretty good though. Don't recognize the brand but they look like similar construction. I'll have to check them out.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 07:12:47 pm
content: This is a must if you don't have one.https://smarttweezers.3dcartstores.com/Smart-Tweezers-PN-ST51AD_p_59.htmlHad mine for at least 5 years and wouldn't be without them.

author: Dark Prognosis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 07:13:04 pm
content: I have OCD and that would thrill me. Fact is I am uncertain why anyone would want less?When I program I always enter PI because the default PI is stupidly short and, by memory, I do PI as 3.1415926535897 but, then again, I am OCD about such stuff, lol.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 07:35:12 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 01, 2013, 07:04:21 pmExcelta don't make anything, they just re-brand and add a premium, this cutter about $75 from Tronex and $90 for the Excelta branded Tronex.Excelta 7170E is the Tronex 7070 (picture shows the shorter handle 5070, longer handle is 7070)http://www.tronextools.com/tronex-cutters/small-tip-cutter/

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 08:27:53 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on December 01, 2013, 06:11:25 amAnybody here needs so many digits? If so, I would like to hear what you are working on.(other than calibrating other DMMS or extending the bottom of the lowest range).BTW, this product has much better cost per digithttp://amzn.com/B005KGCI0Y

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 08:36:29 pm
content: Yes, but it's likely to kill you before you finish counting them...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 09:38:14 pm
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 01, 2013, 07:13:04 pmLast digit technically rounds up to an 8, as it's ...897932384626433....

author: Dark Prognosis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 11:18:31 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on December 01, 2013, 09:38:14 pmI never round I always truncate.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 11:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on December 01, 2013, 08:27:53 pm1.2M count is normal for a 6.5 digit meter. You'll find a 6.5 digit meter in most labs that do any signal or sensor measurement processing. They are very common. Dave has used his several times during the 500 odd videos. If you want to verify the performance of a circuit with 14+ bits of resolution, you're usually going to need a 6.5 digit meter. It allows you to see trends, nonlinearity, etc.One area this meter lacks though is it's high impedance mode (which is "only" 1Gohm) only extends up to 1V. That's a bit of a failing there, typical of most bench meters is up to 10V. I guess that's due to being battery powered and not having the highish rails to power a FET front end.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 02:37:10 am
content: I always use pi as 3.1415926535897932 and then truncate it.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 02:40:16 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 01, 2013, 02:13:33 pmI'm not sure if you are referring to 4W resistance measurements, but in case you are, the meter does it all by itself, with two sets of leads, just like a bench meter.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:08:48 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on December 01, 2013, 06:39:28 amGosh, that's an impressive.... typo.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 11:38:06 am
content: Oops, corrected. Still impressive without all the zeros....

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 05:44:24 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on December 02, 2013, 11:38:06 amThe decimal coma was correct. The german way, where the DMM comes from. And there are other 66 countries writing numbers that way.

author: Dark Prognosis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 02, 2013, 05:44:24 pmYet the Europeans still say point not 1 comma zero two five. What looks like a decimal point more? A period (.) or a damn comma (,)? Silly Europeans.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 02, 2013, 07:13:09 pmI rather imagine the Europeans do not say "point" when they write "," in numbers like "1,025". They would either say "comma" as written, or perhaps they say "decimal", as in "one decimal zero two five".

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:32:06 pm
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 02, 2013, 07:13:09 pmactually in french, you'd say x comma blah blah. if you felt like using slang, then you'd use point, at least in canadian not-first-language french.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:14:05 pm
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 02, 2013, 07:13:09 pmI'm sure, it will be newsflash for you, but there is 24 language spoken only in the EU, and each of them has it's own world for it. My mother tongue translates to "whole" or "entire". German is "komma" BTW.Also they probably said "point" for you because they know that you are from US, and they did not wanted to confuse a North-American that much. I hope it was educational.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:55:50 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 02, 2013, 09:14:05 pmYou confuse an American and they blame you for being too smart.

author: Dark Prognosis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:39:19 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on December 02, 2013, 07:28:31 pmWatch Youtube as I have pointed it out and they can only respond back they do not know why and YES, one was German saying 1 POINT zero two five but on the paper he wrote it with a comma.

author: Dark Prognosis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:41:08 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on December 02, 2013, 09:55:50 pmThere is no confusion Europeans are just being stupid or trying to be different by using a comma when we all know, or should, it is based on the decimal point system not a damn decimal comma system.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 11:34:22 pm
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 02, 2013, 10:39:19 pmWas the German speaking in English or German? If he was speaking in English then it is correct to say "point", since that is the correct English phrasing.

author: Dark Prognosis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:59:36 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 02, 2013, 11:34:22 pmIn English but a lot of the English speaking countries use a comma where the decimal point is too.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 01:05:25 am
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 03, 2013, 12:59:36 amSuch as? As far as I know the decimal point is usual in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.Not being funny, but I have really never heard of that before.Edit: South Africa seems to have a bit of tension between the official government standard and the customary usage by the population at large. It seems the government has legislated the decimal comma but historical custom uses the decimal point. Maybe some of our South African members can give a location report on what's what?

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 01:06:56 am
content: Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 03, 2013, 12:59:36 amI've never seen any English-first-language country English speakers use a comma for a decimal. I'd be curious where you've seen it

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 01:35:20 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 03, 2013, 01:05:25 amIfWikipediais reliable, they state that South Africa uses comma...(edit) oops, just saw your edit, IanB.Quote from: Dark Prognosis on December 02, 2013, 10:41:08 pmIn portuguese we say 1 comma 2345... But it is common to translate to "point" when talking to english-speaking people.All in all this discussion is moot, as it is just like the way of describing a date: the correct way (D/M/Y) and the wrong way (anything else)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 01:51:26 am
content: There's a certain logic to using a decimal comma. Otherwise things could get confusing in cases like this, especially if written by hand:x= 2.75·3.48Now, what isx?

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 02:05:26 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 03, 2013, 01:51:26 amsome people differentiate x and * by using the curvy x that looks like ")(" for the letter and straight lined x for multiplication