Frustrated with Teamviewer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 03:45:52 pm
content: I have been using Teamviewer for a long time and it has served me well. I use it to access and maintain several family computers. Now they are forcing us to go to version 14 which immediately says "commercial use suspected" and gives you a couple minutes before it cuts you off and makes you wait ten or fifteen minutes. Needless to say it is unusable like that. I have no idea where they get the notion of "commercial use suspected" because I am connecting two old computers using WIN XP SP3. I cannot imagine what algorithm they are using that flags someone using WIN XP SP3 as "commercial use". I suspect they are just trying to shake down everybody.I tried to sign in to their forum but it seems my computer is too old for even that and I could not sign in or post.It seems many people are having the same problem.Teamviewer is one of the programs I really like because it is useful, simple to use and it runs on Win XP as well as Linux. I would hate to have to give it up but it seems they're not interested in having a free version any longer.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 04:13:27 pm
content: You can ask them to reset your ID to personal use, if you feel their assessment is incorrect. See the 3rd or 4th question in the FAQ section here:https://community.teamviewer.com/t5/Knowledge-Base/Why-do-I-see-Commercial-use-suspected-Commercial-use-detected/ta-p/5265

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 04:31:17 pm
content: It's been a while since I used Teamviewer, but I will try later and see if I get a similar issue. However, in my case I would connect a Win7 to a Win10 machine, which is a much more mainstream configuration than yours - that is probably the trigger for commercial use.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 05:12:47 pm
content: @rsjsouza, Windows XP suggests "commercial use"? That's interesting.@ebastler, I see they say they can take up to a week to reply. It seems they are inundated with claims.They have messed up big time.I remember many years ago Zonealarm did a similar screwup and the worst part is that they did not admit it was their fault and just blamed the users.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 05:37:33 pm
content: How are they "forcing" the change? I would just not upgrade. I generally don't like to "upgrade" functioning software unless there's a very good reason to do so.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 05:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on February 27, 2019, 05:37:33 pmPrevious versions will stop working. Since the program needs to go through Teamviewer's servers to make the connection, once they say it stops working then there is nothing you can do. I wish I could just connect directly to the other computer by using IP address but I do not think this is possible.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 05:54:13 pm
content: The account blocking doesn't have anything to do with the upgrade (or the use of Windows XP). Once your account/IP address is blocked on TeamViewer's servers, you have to go through their procedure to get it unblocked, or you can't use any version of TeamViewer. Usually they get around to it just before you are fed up enough to switch to another remote desktop program.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 06:04:57 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on February 27, 2019, 05:54:13 pmlike Ultra VNC, for example. No external servers. But you will have to do some port forwarding and use either a fixed IP-address or a dynamic name service. Once configured, it works nicely.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 06:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on February 27, 2019, 05:54:13 pmyeah, I am not saying it is caused by the version change but the fact is that they said "upgrade" and when I did then it started happening on all computers. And to say anyone still using Win XP and using Teamviewer maybe once a month is "suspected of commercial use" makes me think their algorithm leaves a lot to be desired.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 06:12:53 pm
content: If you are going to setup your own VPN for it anyway I recommend using Windows Terminal Services, runs way smoother than any VNCish approach. You do have to disable the a particular safety feature to connect a more modern windows to it though, but that's neatly described over here if you go to workaround:https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4295591/credssp-encryption-oracle-remediation-error-when-to-rdp-to-azure-vm

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 06:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: HalFET on February 27, 2019, 06:12:53 pmThe showstopper with RDP has always been its insistence on blanking out the host's local display. Is that still the case? It's certainly more performant than VNC.I tend to agree with TeamViewer's reasoning, in that home users are most likely not running XP at this point. They certainly shouldn't be. Businesses, on the other hand, tend to be much slower to upgrade. Everybody around here from banks to restaurants to doctors' offices is still running XP.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 06:31:36 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on February 27, 2019, 06:10:40 pmThat is always what happens. Their detector fires for whatever reason and then your whole account is blocked. Yes, their algorithm doesn't seem to be that great.Quote from: KE5FX on February 27, 2019, 06:29:01 pmThat is not their reasoning! There is no evidence that the "commercial use" detection has anything to do with what operating system(s) are being used.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 07:17:32 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on February 27, 2019, 06:31:36 pmJust saying that if I were writing the code, that's one of things I'd take into account.Home users running XP who aren't savvy enough to set up a VNC connection through dynamic DNS? Hard to see that ending well in any event. Systems that meet that description are likely to be part of a botnet.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 07:51:37 pm
content: I think this underlines the problem with hosted/cloud software, that the host canchangethe whole thing at any time without warning. At least with a local executable unless a security vuln arises that makes it inadvisable to use it, you have it for perpetuity.Also, the notion that home users shouldn't have XP is Microsoft's, because they want to extract more cash from them.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 07:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on February 27, 2019, 07:17:32 pmTeamViewer doesn't care if free users connect to computers that are "part of a botnet". All they care about is maximizing subscription revenue, so what you propose would make no sense to them.QuoteI switched from VNC to TeamViewer for supporting my (distant, elderly) friends and relatives, not because I wasn't savvy enough to set up VNC, but because TeamViewer works much better (faster, more reliable except when they screw up my account, useful features). Some of my "clients" still run WinXP, and I have no way to upgrade them, but there have been no security issues as a result. In fact, it's been years since I've seen any kind of malware issue. It's a big red herring.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 07:57:45 pm
content: We use VNC to maintain sites. It isn't all that secure on its own since it has no encryption, however it can be combined with a tunnelling protocol to fix that.The UK health service ransomware incident was blamed on XP, but in fact it was due to poor security practices that were rife in the NHS, and the OS used wouldn't have made much difference.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 08:07:13 pm
content: TeamViewer has a stupid license model.We have a license for remote support, but I just use the free version without installing it. Why? Because once I had it installed and it broke some license mechanism. Then the paid version only connects to the same version causing distress at already stressed customers.We now use more and more Anydesk which is free and works just fine. But it has one issue: it does not transmit the admin security screen, like when you want to start regedit.I would not recommed VNC over the internet.RDP does close the local screen.RegardsVitor

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 08:08:35 pm
content: VNC over VPN is ok of course.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 09:12:54 pm
content: In the past I tried using the Windows Remote Desktop but I had all sorts of problems and never got it to work well. I was very happy with Teamviewer because it worked well and without any problems and because it works on both Windows and Linux. I really hope I do not have to get started with something else.Again, I do not know what their algorithm looks for but I cannot imagine what behavior of mine triggered it. it is not like I am connecting to many computers. In fact, each computer only connects to one other computer.WinXP at location A to Win XP at location B.Linux at location A to Linux at location B.WinXp(2) at location B to Win Xp at location 3That's it. And probably not more than once a month at the most. Several months can go by with no use.Now that this alarm has been triggered I can pretty much not use it at all. The whole thing is a mess and I am lucky I do not need it urgently. I mean, they could give you some warning, like two weeks, and then tighten the time allowed gradually, but, no, suddenly, wham! and you're phucket!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 09:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on February 27, 2019, 09:12:54 pmSo you have installations on several separate computers, all registered to the same email address? (They do ask you to identify via an email address, if I recall correctly?) Maybe that is what triggers the "commercial use" assumption. How many installations do you run?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 10:59:06 pm
content: No need to register any email address or other identifiable info. Just install it and run. So, apart from sharing IP address, each couple of computers are totally separate from the rest.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 11:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on February 27, 2019, 07:17:32 pmWhoever is still running XP is generally either a Luddite without much technical know-how, or a company running XP for very specific and deliberate reasons. Some systems simply can't be updated without things breaking or becoming unsupported like MRI or radar systems, so they're left alone and safeguarded in various ways.Running XP isn't sensible from a security perspective. Even though things are actually getting better because it's not as much of an attractive target for bad actors, its underlying architecture really is significantly outdated. No amount of band aids can bring it up to modern standards.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 02:55:40 pm
content: I am using VNC, I have both non-paid older unencrypted FREE connection to a few machines. But for office stuff we use RealVNC which works like Teamviewer and actually is what we replaced Teamviewer with because it was starting to become annoying. VNC also has apps for mobile, works with both the older free servers and also new ones. The difference with the new paid model is that VNC works like Teamviewer in that it lets you log into your account and see all the computers you have trusted to it. You don't have to manage IP addresses or what happens when the IP changes (like for the older free version where I would have the computer need to periodically notify me of dynamic IP changes from my host).Another advantage I find with RealVNC is the cost. It is much less costly than Teamviewer for managing a few computers. In my case, we just needed 1 or 2 machines managed remotely and so the cost annually for doing so is much less than Teamviewer. Of course, there is still a FREE option for home use. While I could have gone for the "home" use and used in it my office (which would have not been the honest thing to do), I wanted to give back to VNC since I was using their software for years for free already, and for about $40 a year it is nothing.One last thing... VNC also has clients for Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, BlackBerry... It has been around for as long as I can remember. It also is an open source protocol and has other implementations (like TightVNC), and even features downloads of their open source here for various platforms:https://archive.realvnc.com/download/open/I'm not sure how the Open implementation works but I know for the FREE versions I am still running it doesn't link up to any email account at all. But you have to write a script or something that runs on your main computer (or even install Teamviewer and just log in for a few seconds) to check out your IP if it changes. Otherwise TeamViewer and the newer RealVNC will allow you to login to an "Account" which has your computers tied to it, and that updates always where the computers are so in case of IP change, those machines report periodically back to the servers their new IP so you don't have to worry about it.My script on older XP machines is basically composed of these 2 programs:blat.exe (emailer)wget-1.10.2.exe (file downloader)So first, I use WGET to grab the address of my computer (basically a web page from the site "myipaddress.com" or whatever you want to use) like so:wget-1.10.2 myipaddress.comThis downloads the file to "index.html". Inside of that page I have my IP address which is coded in the response page that myipaddres.com produces when you go to that website from your computer. I rename "index.html" to "message.txt" and use BLAT to email that file to myself. Not the most secure method because it is going out as plain-text and someone could theoretically intercept these emails, find out your IP and try to infiltrate your system. However, there is also a password needed for VNC to connect and you could use other methods to secure it further (for example, you could run the "message.txt" through some encryption first like PGP). So with BLAT I do something like this:blat message.txt -to recipient@address.com -f sender@address.com -s "MyIP" -server smtp.mail.com -port 587 -u myname@mail.com -pw MyMailPassword -debug -log blat.logObviously you need to check out the usage of BLAT but it allows you with a command line to send a message, include the "to", "from", "subject", and parameters needed for your SMTP server account that you use to email (port, login name and password) and also some debugging options and logs. All of this basically runs in a SCRIPT file that is on Task Scheduler or every time the computer boots up... it will find its public IP address and essentially email it to me. If I ever have a problem logging in to the computer, I check the last email I received from the machine.In cases when something screws up completely (for example, mail.com decided to change the port and address for it's SMTP at one point), I still had Teamviewer on the machine which I could use for 5 minutes (before claiming it was "Corporate") to simply get into a browser and manually go to the myipaddress.com site.BLAT can be grabbed from:https://www.blat.net/WGET can be grabbed from:https://www.gnu.org/software/wget/Both are available online, source I believe is available for both. WGET is also on Linux, and BLAT could probably be compiled for it if needed. Either way, these are tiny but very useful programs for this kind of thing.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 07:36:30 am
content: OK, I think I have determined what triggered the "commercial use suspected".In my LAN I use a computer as a router to the Internet. All the computers on the network had been using Teamviewer without problem. Except I had never used Teamviewer on the router computer itself.Then I ran Teamviewer on the router computer and suddenly I was getting the commercial use message on all computers.Now I think the reason the router computer triggers that warning is because it has two network interface cards installed. If I use Teamviewer on any other machine it has no problem but use it on the router machine and it detects two NICs and suspects "commercial use".I guess I could try disabling the LAN NIC leaving only the WAN NIC active and see if that fixes the issue.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 11, 2019, 07:36:30 amIt doesn't work that way. Once your account is blocked, it won't work until TeamViewer resets it. And once it's reset, it doesn't matter if you use 2 IPs.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:13:28 pm
content: I have three network cards and Teamviewer works fine.Perhaps it looks to the licensing of Windows, and if it's a domain login or not?Or the size of the local subnet?

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:34:07 pm
content: Normally it's just the question after end of session if the session was for private or commercial. If you connect to someone and after the end he/she declares that this was commercial use your account gets flagged.Also if you connect to a teamviewer instance where a commercial license is instapled with a private client your account gets flagged as commercial use too.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:47:41 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on March 11, 2019, 02:13:28 pmI think it's just based on the number of hosts you connect to, and how often.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 03:02:02 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on March 11, 2019, 02:47:41 pmNot sure if that is the only check, but it is one for sure.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 04:43:04 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on March 11, 2019, 02:01:57 pmI am using about 8~10 computers spread over three locations. I have been using Teamviewer for years and never had a problem until now. When I got the dreaded message I now reckon it was related to using Teamviewer in the router computer when I had never used it there before. Whether it was due to several NICs or other reason I do not know but that seems to me the most likely. I guess there is an infinitesimal chance that it was just a random coincidence but it seems unlikely.After that happened all the computers on this network were blocked.I messaged Teamviewer and after like 10 days the computers were unblocked and I used them normally again... until I tried to use the router box and again I got the same message so it seems quite clear that the suspicion is in that machine.I have stopped trying to use Teamviewer in that machine and so far the others have not been blocked again. I am keeping my fingers crossed and I will not be trying to use Teamviewer in that machine ever again.Somehow Teamviewer gets a fingerprint of the machine and even if you uninstall it and remove all traces of it, when you reinstall you get the same user id number again and a strong feeling someone at the other end is saying "we know it's you again; don't ever try to fool us".

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 04:47:22 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on March 11, 2019, 02:47:41 pmDefinitely not in my case. I have been connecting to the same machines for years without problem and lately used Teamviewer less than I have in the past.It is definitely related to that machine although I cannot say exactly how. My suspicion is the NICs because it is really the only thing that makes it different from the others but I suppose there could be something else I am overlooking.