Question about petrol/gasoline engine oils - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 06:06:19 am
content: I'm about to do a service on my petrol lawnmower next weekend which involves changing the engine oil.The Honda manual specifies that it should be "4-stroke motor oil" with an API category of SJ (or better) and either 5W-30 or 10W-30 viscosity (I'm leaning towards using 5W since I live in an area with a relatively low ambient temperature throughout most of the year, compared to the suburbs of Sydney).My local store has decent brand fully synthetic oil for $35 for 5 litres that exceeds the minimum SJ spec listed in the manual (this one is SN), but they also stock "speciality oils" for garden equipment and other small engines which are specifically labelled 4-stroke oils with a small 1 litre bottle costing $28 (which is also labelled "premium mineral oil").What's the difference? Is there any reason I can't use the far cheaper oil designed for car engines, provided that the viscosity is the same as specified in the manual? Surely if it's good enough to go in a modern car, it's good enough for a lawnmower?

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 06:48:27 am
content: I don't think there's any difference except the hole in your pocket, "Premium mineral oil"? Sounds like a rip-off.I'd put the synthetic one without thinking twice, better oil, cheaper, it's no brainer!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 06:58:55 am
content: They might have specified "4-stroke motor oil" to avoid confusion with "2-stroke motor oil" which if mixed up ruins an engine in no time.The expensive specialty oil I believe is "non-detergent" oil. In the old days, the concern was about foaming with splash-lubricated small engines, and since they have no oil pump, something about sediment needing to settle down and collecting in the bottom. But they used metal additives like zinc which are out of favour and expensive nowadays.There's some videos frothing up non-detergent oil and finding it did worse compared to modern oils, so I don't see an advantage in a modern engine.Non-detergent oil has a place in transmissions and air compressors so it still exists.I would just use 10W30 synthetic motor oil. Air-cooled engines generally run hotter than car engines, i.e. I find a 5W20 can get water thin when hot, supposedly great for fuel economy with lower frictional losses. Small engines warm up fast but I'm not sure what temps you consider cool. Here you can start and run a snowblower when it -20°C and 5W30 is good.Honda lawnmowers I see the majority are using 10W30 motor oil, they have a plastic camshaft too so I would not use any old school oil.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 08:07:42 am
content: Thanks for your advice guys. I'll probably just stick with the synthetic 10W-30 as it's cheaper than buying small bottles of these so-called speciality oils. Both my mower and line trimmer take the same oil, so it's easier just to keep a larger bottle on-hand. Fuel economy doesn't matter to me, we're talking about a few dollars per year (if that). I just don't want to risk damaging the engine with the wrong oil. In terms of temperature, I'm unlikely to be mowing the lawn in anything under 10 degrees C anyway.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 06:32:14 pm
content: There actually is a difference, which is well known to owners of vintage cars and motorcycles (I'm one).The modern synthetic oils have additives to absorb particles (mainly soot) in the oil and carry them through the oil filter (or for fine particles to just keep them suspended in the oil).The older minerals oils function differently, the idea is to deposit the particles in the bottom of the sump.Now whether this difference matters to a garden machine is doubtful. Personally, I'd just buy the cheapest 5W-30 you can get. It's not likely that a garden machine will rack up 100k miles.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 06:54:18 pm
content: It's also important that the oil you use is compatible with any clutch that may be in the engine. Does the lawnmower have a wet clutch or any clutch at all? I know that this is important where motorcycles are concerned (I'm a sometimes motorcyclist) but I'm not really familiar with lawnmowers. Just something to maybe consider?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 07:05:03 pm
content: If you've got a decent local tool shop they probably keep the 1l bottles for more like $10-15 - heck, a quick search just found Briggs branded 30 weight for $12.65 down under, and Bunnings keep the same for $14.88. You're probably only going to need about half of that, so if you've no use for the remaining 4.5l of car oil, that might be less wasteful.But really, for a lightly loaded occasionally used small engine, as long as there's actually oil in it it's going to be fine.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 07:27:45 pm
content: "if you've no use for the remaining 4.5l of car oil" - (Most) engines normally last for more than one oil change!The oil won't degrade or anything, as long as you keep the can closed.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 07:28:44 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on August 14, 2023, 07:27:45 pmWhile this is true, space on my shelf is worth more than oil sitting around doing nothing..

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 08:01:46 pm
content: Whatever man. Buy the cheapest ausie 10-30 oil and call it a day.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 08:35:08 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 14, 2023, 08:07:42 amHow so ?If your trimmer a 4 stroke ?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 08:13:24 pm
content: For the most part I use full synthetic in all of my 4 stroke gasoline engines. Even the small engines like my generator and such get it. I think the generator requires changes after 50hours of operation?I used to run methanol in one engine which required an expensive special oil along with a top end oil additive blended into the fuel. Methanol is fun. When I switched back to gasoline, I was using a cheap grade non-synthetic. The oil is changed after only few miles of use anyway. The problem was the formula changed over time due to ever changing emissions laws and I switched to a race only semi-synthetic that was better suited.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 08:38:07 pm
content: 1. Use only RoHS motor oil.2. Clip a ferrite on the fuel line.3. Buy only from a reputable source, not ebay, etc.4. Use lead-free fuel.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 09:09:00 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 16, 2023, 08:13:24 pmWhat brand would that be ?Even decades old Briggs & Stratton engines only required 40hr changes.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 09:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 16, 2023, 09:09:00 pmAre you guys kidding me? 5 hrs, 40 hrs oil change intervals???What kind of miserable engines are these?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 10:06:43 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on August 16, 2023, 09:58:16 pmSplash lube.Silicon alloy bores with chromed alloy pistons running alloy conrods without main bearing shells.They were made for decades and decades and when looked after would also run for decades.Old Kohler engines although of cast iron construction specified similar oil change periods.tautech in an earlier life twisted spanners on these things.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 10:39:18 pm
content: Typo, I thought 50 but just looked up the Honda, 100 hrs or 6 months.***I have a cheap Steele 3500W which also calls for an oil change at 100 hrs or 6 months.Quote from: tautech on August 16, 2023, 09:09:00 pmI was using Torco T-4R with the methanol. Currently using the Brad Penn with gasoline.The 15W-50 and 10W-40 are in my two street bikes.For the 2-strokes, I was using Yamalube but now Lucas goes in everything. When I was growing up riding dirt bikes, mostly I used Golden Spectro.***I have an Ariens snow blower with a B&S motor. Calls for every 50 hrs.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 11:36:22 pm
content: Jeez, I didn't know.Always used electric or manual garden tools myself.I feel catapulted back into the 19th century.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 11:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on August 16, 2023, 11:36:22 pmI have also been an electric tool user. However, I have noticed that gasoline engines are vastly more powerful than typical electric motors. For instance, a 1 kW electric motor might output about 1 hp if you are lucky, whereas lawn mowers with tiny gasoline engines can produce 2 to 5 hp easily.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 11:56:36 pm
content: About the only electric garden tool I own is a hedge trimmer, and I run it off my gasoline generator. I image that this is how the people in CA will side step the new laws.https://www.gomaterials.com/blog/how-californias-gas-powered-lawn-equipment-ban-affects-landscaping-businesses/

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 12:01:54 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 16, 2023, 11:56:36 pmIf I understood correctly, the California ban applies to all small gasoline engines including portable generators. I think in future, portable generators will need to be battery powered

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 12:16:44 am
content: Quote from: IanB on August 17, 2023, 12:01:54 amPretty sure there are many videos showing an electric motor driving a generator with a feedback path to drive the motor and enough left to run your house. So no problem there.Our small 2-stroke Lawnboy mower is over 40 years old now. I can't see moving to a plastic electric mower just yet and spend my time swapping batteries. Hard to beat the power density of gasoline.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 01:04:30 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 16, 2023, 10:39:18 pmThere are different lubrication requirements for 2 strokes if they are:Air cooledWater cooledMarine cooled.They each have a different lubrication spec for the heat ranges they operate within.Run any water cooled 2 stroke oil in an aircooled 2 stroke engine at your peril.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 01:06:48 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2023, 12:16:44 amI am sure your neighbors love the noise and stinking fumes.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 01:24:25 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2023, 12:16:44 amI had one good petrol mower years ago.All the others have been rubbish.They overheat after a short period & you have to spend ages getting them to start after they cool down.I could never afford a Honda, so ended up with Briggs & Stratton or Tecumseh engined things.I have fixed, serviced & rebuilt all sorts of car engines, but for some strange reason, I have trouble with small engines.I eventually gave up on them, spent the big bucks & got a Ryobi "plastic" battery lawnmower, & have been agreeably surprised.It handles my overgrown backyard just as well as the petrol ones, & if it "bites off more than it can chew", the motor "stalls", but you just pull it back from the overloading vegetation, push the "go" control, & away you go.The petrol engines would stall, decline to restart & flood if I insisted.On a warmish day, by the time I ran out of fuel, they would usually be hot & again refuse to start, necessitating a prolonged cool down time.With the Ryobi mower, when the battery goes flat, I just remove it, take an extended break until it has charged, slap it back in, & I'm ready to go.If I were "flush with funds" I could have two batteries & never have to stop.Interestingly, the petrol mower which worked properly was an old 1960s "Rover" with an Oz made 4 stroke engine of unknown provenance.It also had, as was common in those days in this country, a starter handle with which you wound up a large spring, then folded the handle down & bashed it on the top to start.It would deliver all the stored energy in the spring very quickly, spinning the engine up to speed fast, almost always starting properly.All the later ones had those godawful "pull starts", which require you to brace the mower body with your foot & heave on the cord umpteen times, till it either starts, or you get heartily sick of it & go inside & have a coffee instead.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 01:35:41 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on August 17, 2023, 01:24:25 amIIRC that probably was an early Tecumseh and likely with an ordinary carby.Later most went to diaphragm carbs that used intake pulses to work the diaphragm to lift fuel from the tank into the carb fuel bowl.Some even used the diaphragm to control the choking system for starting and if not set a certain way on reassembly wouldn't work correctly.More we have to talk about when we get together at Xmas.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 02:36:18 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 17, 2023, 01:04:30 amWater cooled leaf blower? Mower? Weed whacker? LOL!!! Dirt bikes in my day were Hodaka Ace Super Rat ... Water cooled wasn't a thing. As a matter of fact, I knew a guy who knew a guy who built and raced for Yamaha who made one of the first water cooled 2-strokes. Cutting edge stuff.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 02:42:19 am
content: Quote from: Bud on August 17, 2023, 01:06:48 amAre you my neighbor? If not, how can you be sure of anything?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 03:53:18 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2023, 02:36:18 amI listed all 3 as they are each distinctly different but in fact air cooled can be broken into 2 further categories, those that are wind cooled as a motorike is and fan cooled as portable 2 stroke tools are; chainsaws, trimmers, hedgecutters, concrete cutters etc.While lubricants to suit many 2 stroke types are available, none are expressly formulated for all.I use 2, air cooled and that recommend for outboards of which there are also premix and auto inject formulations.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 07:30:35 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 17, 2023, 03:53:18 amI have not owned an air cooled 2-stroke bike in I would guess at least 40 years. I think the last air cooled 2-stroke I owned was a sled. It had a fan but the heads came up through the hood. I would guess that was at least 40 years ago too. I've yet to own a boat, so no concerns there.We did have an old Detroit 2-stroke, supercharged + turbo. I doubt any of the oils your thinking of would have worked. I used to play with model air plains when I was a kid. All of them were 2-stroke. One was a diesel. Guessing these would all be in their own distinct category as well but nothing that concerns me.Anything I own is fan cooled. All running the same oil. Guessing I have been using Lucas at least 10 years now. I'll let you know when one of my 2-strokes finally dies. The oldest one that gets any use is the mower. It's a good test case.***Thinking of categories, how many does Siglent have for encoders? Do they offer higher grade for some equipment and lower grade for others, or is it a one size fits all and they are all poor? Seems I asked this before and you didn't respond. Had you told me the higher end arbs offered a working encoder, I would have pulled the trigger on one for home but with the lack of any feedback, I assumed they use the same poor part. Seems the advice was use the buttons.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 08:38:32 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2023, 07:30:35 amAbout then when I sold my last road bike, A Suzuki 250 GT X7 twin one of the last variants they produced after becoming the first 250cc production bike capable of 100mph. Had mine up there a few times.QuoteOf course not, that Detroit is a diesel and requires a high detergent diesel oil.QuoteTypically they used Castor oils as a lubricant when I fiddled with such stuff too several decades ago.QuoteThen they'll all use a similarly rated oil albeit at different mix ratios however I try to simplify these using only a couple of mix ratios, 24:1 and 32:1 to cover an old 2 stroke mower, my big boy chainsaw (120cc) a trimmer, and 3 other saws.Please excuse Joe for going OTQuoteIt's not an encoder problem but a SW problem as the encoder polling on SDG models is too slow to combat Joe's high speed life.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 10:37:37 am
content: Joe, rather than run total loss combustion chamber lube in rotary engines, when racing 2 stroke oils are used as seen done here by my neighbor setting a NZ record a few years back.AFAIK it still stands today.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 11:58:43 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 16, 2023, 08:35:08 amYep.Both Honda engines. Both take 10W-30 "high detergent" oil of API SJ grade or higher. So even a semi-synthetic should be fine for both purposes. I'm not buying two types of oil.The line trimmer manual specifically states in big bold text: "Using nondetergent oil or 2-stroke engine oil could shorten the engine's service life".

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 12:21:17 pm
content: I had a one of the Suzuki GT ram air triples. My last air cooled 2-stroke was a Kaw triple 500 w/ expansion chambers.QuoteBigger difference, we are not blending oil into the fuel to act as a lubricant like all of my 2-strokes.QuoteI don't remember if I had to mix anything in that toy diesel or not. You had an adjustment for the CR and a way to add heat.I mix them the same, rich. I'll take smoke over a damaged engine any day. All of the ones I own use a carb.QuoteAnd here I thought I was being slow with it. I wonder when they did the system design, did marketing, EE management or quality control think it was good enough.Quote8.66 @ 153 in what distance do you use over there?Been following a channel where they are attempting to reassemble a 12-rotor boat motor. It's the size of a big-block. There are videos of the owner/designer running it.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 07:48:31 pm
content: I use cheap 15w40 turbodiesel oil for all air cooled stuff that only gets used above freezing, works great.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 08:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2023, 12:21:17 pmDiesel itself is an upper cylinder lubricant so only the bottom end requires lubrication.All large ship engines are 2 stroke semi-diesels running on fuels more like crude oil than anything refined we consumers use. 2 stroke diesels have come in several types over the decades and one popular when I was young was the English Commer T3 horizontally opposed 3cyl truck engine.QuoteI don't remember if I had to mix anything in that toy diesel or not. You had an adjustment for the CR and a way to add heat. Yet here we didn't need to heat them, only reduce compression some to start, unlike the gloplug model engines.QuoteAmen to that. At 40:1 I start getting nervous and 50:1 well justQuoteAnd here I thought I was being slow with it. I wonder when they did the system design, did marketing,EE managementor quality control think it was good enough. Obviously, however they are getting flack for it now from me as a user/dealer but not for normal use where certainly it could be better, but for related encoder usage when it is way suboptimal.Quote8.66 @ 153 in what distance do you use over there? 1/4 mile, 440yds. AFAIK we don't have any shortened strips here.12A is the older low capacity 2 rotor engine however that one was running Methanol with 40lbs of boost.Not sure how it dynoed but it will be approaching 800hp.QuoteLeading edge builds are always fun and good luck to him.3 rotor builds are common as they were a std Mazda build known as the 20B that the neighbor pushed to 1400hp to then have all sorts of issues getting it to hold together as it kept breaking from the engine plate at launch so substantial redesigns were needed including billet end plates recessed into the plate and with additional fixings....still a work in progress.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 12:05:00 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 17, 2023, 08:01:31 pmIndeed, diesel acts as the lubricant. This was one of the downsides of using methanol. Great fuel but required mixing in oil. Then there was draining the system.QuoteNice. I see most of the bikes are now over 600HP with street tires and no bar. I doubt any of my bikes are more than 200 when I lean on them. 30 is about the limit for C16 gasoline but currently the bike can run in the 7's with 22PSI.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 12:35:21 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2023, 12:05:00 amMethanol really woke these rotary's up and at one time neighbor only ran C16 in them yet in his first car, a tubbed RX3 with a blown 13B he progressed from 12s runs to just under 10s withonlytuning of the chassis.When that was sorted and further pedalling experience gained engine builds improved for that same car to run 8.66s with another motor.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 12:51:50 am
content: Higher boost and cooling over the C16. I spray a small shot with the bike not having an intercooler. Drops the temp a fair bit.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 01:14:25 am
content: Lots of interesting discussion. But I'm surprised that Honda recommends 10w-30 since it will thin out a bit in an air cooled engine, particularly if you're going to be using your petrol equipment in the aussie summer. I run all my 4 stroke small motors on 10w-40, ie mower, mulcher, brushcutter, pressure washer

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 03:19:46 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2023, 12:51:50 amHere we use icebox intercoolers, ice replenished after each pass.Launch boost is critical too and a 2 step tune provides an ignition cut at max revs and when it comes back ON the unburnt fuel provides a boost lift of a momentary additional 20psi.Getting that additional boost timed with the launch creates those magic passes.....and breaks stuff if it isn't strong enough.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 01:43:51 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2023, 03:19:46 amToo large for my bike. The only thing I use ice for is filling the N2O and CO2 tanks. My street bike uses an intercooler, but its a bit more modern.Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2023, 03:19:46 amYes, that's how its done. The 2-step is part of my MSD ignition. It's a balancing act on launch of tire pressure, boost, clutch... Clutch tuning is a major part. Boost is about 7PSI at launch. Very tame.***The parts that would normally break with the bike were transmission gears. Lots of information out there about heat treating and such. I had Robinson make a 1-2 auto transmission for me. The down side with this is you can't chop the throttle until after the first shift if something goes wrong or $$$. So hang em out there.My street bike is injected. The 2-step is done with the primary ECM. You have the option of cutting fuel, ignition or both. The primary ECM is stock. I use ROMRaider to hack it.https://github.com/RomRaider/RomRaiderhttps://www.robinsonindustriesinc.com/

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 02:36:55 pm
content: I miss the smell of Caster Oil in the 2-stokes I have. But you can never beat the smell of a 2-stroke in the morning, smells like victory. Never knew there was a difference for AC or WC engines, I just bought good quality oil.I do enjoy some of the utterly useless manuals you get for things. It specifies a brand and part number of the oil but little about what grade of oil it is. Of course the the FB group of the owner doesn't help as they are just as clueless as they have a garage that does the work for them.I have wondered from time to time if the recommended oil is still the best oil to use. With modern synthetic oils and a different knowledge of oils would the 10w40 that I use on a 30 year old bike actually be better off with a 5w50.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 07:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on August 18, 2023, 02:36:55 pmOver the last several years I've noticed lawn equipment and bicycle getting worse in their documentation and manuals. They used to contain maintenance information and instructions, now everything is "take it to a authorised service centre".The last example that really pissed me off was the documentation for the shimano brakes on my bicycle. I wanted to find the model number of the pads and the manual wouldn't list them, all said was "take it to a authorised service centre".

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 07:51:08 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 17, 2023, 08:01:31 pmonly out to sea where sulphur content is less restricted, in restricted areas, close to the coast and in port they run on diesel (gas oil)a regular four-stroke gasoline engine is also only lubricated at the bottom

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 09:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on August 18, 2023, 07:51:08 pmMy 4-stroke bike engines pump the oil from the crank to the top end for the cams, lifters.... But yea, I know what you meant.Then we get to the guides.https://patents.google.com/patent/US6599345B2/en

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 09:42:24 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2023, 01:43:51 pmNot heard of ROMRaider but not at all surprised such equipment has evolved.One 13B powered Mazda drag car running a MSD setup had ongoing issues they couldn't sort in that it would go off song down the track when boost, fuel and RPM were all near peak and I put a scope on the ECU coil outputs to find one output down enough to have the fire go out when ignition was under high stress.The complete MSD system got replaced and most here are running Motec or Haltech ECU systems now.Quote from: mendip_discovery on August 18, 2023, 02:36:55 pmFrom my experience any 2 stroke oil highly dyed/tinted is to be avoided especially for premix.We used to run trial mixes of anything new pushed by oil company reps and leave them in sealed glass jars on the windowsill in full sun for at least a month to see if they would turn to gel.In many ways the problems dyed 2 stroke oils were trying to help with, (visual ID of mix) the dies used instead promoted geling and fuel system clogging not to mention possible degradation of fuel system components.However as the decades have rolled by better choices of fuel storage containers are now available so to have different colored ones to more simply identify which is a 2 stroke mix.YMMV

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 11:34:04 pm
content: I had an old MSD ignition that you had to insert the resistor to set the 2-step. It worked fine. Later switched to their MC1 digital. I did have one die on me. I was able to dig out enough potting to troubleshoot it and replace the boost converter IC. I'm not sure what killed it as the bike uses a total loss system (no charging). The coils are separate.My street bike is using a product from your neck of the woods (Microtech out of Gladesville Australia). This second system runs in parallel with the original to supply enough fuel to the motor. Using a Porshe 911 fuel pump on it.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 11:58:45 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2023, 09:09:41 pmbig 2-stroke marine diesels also have valves, cams, and lifters

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 12:55:26 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2023, 11:34:04 pmYep, forgot about Microtech, anther good product.In the last decade or 2 technology has offered massive improvement to high performance needs as even low budget teams all have laptops to extract run logs and analyse where improvements are needed and of course the other benefit is identifying race system faults and the conditions that might lead to them.Such capability would have found the MSD ignition was at fault rather than feedback from the jockey over several meets and runs knowing there was something wrong but what ?Lucky the guy next door had a DSO and could verify their hunchandcapture it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 01:57:00 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 19, 2023, 12:55:26 amI looked at buying a logger at one point and talked with some of the big players but they didn't offer what I wanted. Many of the loggers back then would do 1 sampler / second!! Better ones, 0.1 second. I was asked by one of the big players, why would I need anything faster. It's like they had no clue how much things were changing in that first second, especially with the clutch. So, some FPGA and software... Nowdays, one PIC.You like turbos and 2-steps. Here is some very old data showing one of my old Rajay turbo chargers spooling up compared with my custom made Comp Turbo with triplex ceramic bearings. Note at 0 seconds, the bike is making 12 PSI of boost with the old Rajay and within 0.2 seconds its making over 18. The Comp Turbo may seem worse but once I spanked the monkey, she comes up quick. Too much and the tire spins..... How do you know? It's all in the data.....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:17:27 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 19, 2023, 01:57:00 amOne wonders about their pedigree in this game.Are you using a slider clutch variation on your bike Joe ?

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:30:37 am
content: I have 17 internal combustion engines at my house: diesel, two stroke, 4-mix, 4 stroke. The rule of thumb for all engines is: oil shouldn’t be in the engine long enough to matter. Having said that, some of those are very high performance engines that get the recommended oil at better than recommended intervals. But plain 10-30 or even straight weight 30 is more than adequate for a mower.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:33:00 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 19, 2023, 02:17:27 amOn my 40 year old bike, I am using a multi-stage lockup with a billet basket and straight cut gear. I am a one man band, so no crew to start the bike or tow it. I knew a guy who made a slider where he could change the stall with a switch. Pretty good idea.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:37:31 am
content: So I think the answer to what oil is best for a lawnmower is 1ms polling rate EGT sensors, closed loop wideband AFR correction and FPGA implemented DSP windowed knock detection and fuel film model transient throttle fuel delivery.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:39:44 am
content: My street bike is a bit more fancy and clouds your question on if its a lockup or a slider. How about, it depends... Some rules would require a hand clutch, but what does that really mean?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:51:20 am
content: Quote from: Ground_Loop on August 19, 2023, 02:30:37 amYet many modern automotive engines run EGR for which you should use an EGR rated oil.A little story if I may....A lifelong buddy changed his work van, loaded with 500kg min and everyday at least another 500-1000kg of goods to install at work.It was his first turbo diesel and asked his mate, a Valvoline rep for a oil recommendation to run in it.He is a fastidious owner and every vehicle he owned was always very well serviced.The change period was specified at 5000km however increased oil consumption started occurring at 3500km and he needed topups before the change period was due.He asked for advice and quick study revealed the engine in this van had an EGR system and specialist oils were specified for it.BS he told me but I insisted rather than continue to use the muck he was, instead visit the local auto everything shop and get (brand, type) oil pack for his next change.He did and oil consumption before the next change period miraculously disappeared.There's very good reason why I go to significant effort to disableanyEGR capability........

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 02:53:26 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 19, 2023, 02:39:44 amFor the base weight your clutch would certainly comply.