EEVblog #679 - How To Build A Small Electronics Work Bench - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:22:14 am
content: Dave shows you how to build a small electronics work bench, along with tips on ESD matting and setup.Rubber ESD Matting in Australia:http://www.oritech.com.au/productDetail.aspx?productID=20508&name=ESD-Mat-Dual-Layer-600mm-X-10M-BlueOther related bench videos:Island Bench Build:New Lab Bench Install:ESD Matting upgrade:Old Lab Bench Build:

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:24:52 am
content: Carpentry with metric dimensions, how confusing.;-)

author: Jaunedeau
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:31:55 am
content: For a bench that will be used only for electronics, I add a wooden frame on top of the bench, about 10mm wide and 3-4mm high, so the small things (screws, screw drivers, shafts, ...) don't roll out and fell.

author: EvilGeniusSkis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 04:43:29 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 03, 2014, 03:24:52 ami was just about to say the same thing. In Canada while we officially use the SI system imperial still gets used in many situations (no doubt thanks to you yanks [is it sad that I had to google Gwen Stefani to figure out how to spell "doubt"? ]) carpentry being one. I am the kind of person that will use whatever measurement on the ruler is easier.

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 05:05:00 am
content: Man, I love seeing someone talk ESD on youtube who actually gets it right! Nice Dave!

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 05:12:55 am
content: By the way ... a good U.S. source for mat and other ESD related supplies is All-Spec ...http://www.all-spec.com/I've used them for ages and have never had any issues.

author: ktrussell
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 05:19:48 am
content: Thanks for this tip. I have recently moved to a "new to me" house which has a great shop but is not equipped with benches. I plan to follow pretty much what Dave did in his lab.Dave, thanks for these videos!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:33:05 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 03, 2014, 03:24:52 amNot at all. Metric is superior to ye olde imperial system is a number of ways, one being THE WORLD USES IT except for Liberia, USA and Burma. If the US can't cope with conforming to an easier to use system and wants to remain a minority, that's not Dave's problem. Nor do we care.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:36:24 am
content: superior, inferior, irrelevant.a measure is a measure not one better than the other.well, as long as you measure twice

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:43:31 am
content: If you use water based polyurethane it won't stink up the place, much better than the old oil-based clears. I've done many desks inside no probs. Dries reasonably quick too.Quote from: zapta on November 03, 2014, 03:24:52 am

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:45:45 am
content: Excellent video Dave. Thanks! I have to build some major benching soon, so your video was useful. The pine top was a bit pricey, but it is strong.A friend made a fabulous ELECTRICALLY HEIGHT ADJUSTABLE workbench using an low cost plain exterior door as the 2040 x 820 bench top. It worked a treat. For some reason it has a remote control. The advantages of height control is it is ergonomic, you can work standing up rather than sitting on your behind all day and it facilitates working on large height devices as well as flat devices.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:56:00 am
content: Quote from: TMM on November 03, 2014, 08:43:31 am3890 what?Since that picture means it's 359.1321875 cm or 3.591321875 meters it makes no sense.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 09:11:55 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on November 03, 2014, 08:36:24 amNot irrelevant. Just look at the left hand/right hand drive, and the 110V / 240V incompatibilities. Ignoring some inherent protectionism, such stupidity has cost the world's economies dearly. Ease of use and standardisation are everything.Anyone doing PCBs outside Liberia, USA and Burma who are working with imperial measurements should stop living in the past and get with the modern world. At my workplace, it is mandatory that all PCB designs are done using metric throughout, as defined by our company's PCB Design Standards.Agree with the measuring twice. Nothing worse than that feeling one gets when cutting some timber too short when the hardware stores are closed and the timber is not cheap. Been there, done that, not fun.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 09:15:49 am
content: Does anyone know where to get that matting in the EU? Would be happy to buy a 10m roll or whatever.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 09:16:55 am
content: Quote from: TMM on November 03, 2014, 09:10:42 amYes you are

author: delmadord
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 09:42:30 am
content: Dave, you have quite revealed on 16:37 what you have tried to hide on 11:28. Now we can do conspiracies

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 10:00:33 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 03, 2014, 03:24:52 amEssentially, Dave's "900mm" bench is 3 feet wide, and 3 feet high.Here in North America, a lumber ("timber") company named Simpson makes a vast range of steel connectors for construction framing. One of the pieces, RTC42 is brilliant for making benches and shelves. It takes a "4x4" upright piece (bench leg or shelf upright) and "2x4" horizontal pieces and makes constructing good sturdy benches/shelves bog-simple.

author: SNGLinks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 10:04:31 am
content: Dave mentioned putting a power strip under the bench at the back. If the bench is up against a wall how do you route the power cables from the equipment to the strip?

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 11:02:44 am
content: Hello.Quote from: bookaboo on November 03, 2014, 09:15:49 amPerhaps this?http://www.shop.geltron.de/en/esd-matte-1000mm-hellblau-10m-rolle_p40354.html10m rolls are available in 600, 1000 and 1200mm. Blue, grey and black.Greetings,Hartmut

author: guenter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 11:41:46 am
content: Or This?http://www.bjz.de/warengruppe/show/104010000Günter

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 12:20:50 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 03, 2014, 10:00:33 amHi all,I can see why Dave never installed lower bars on the legs on most of his benches as you just end up hitting you shins when you go to sit down......however, it's a great idea to put them on the the back and sides and then install a shelf half the depth of the bench for extra storage (i.e. at the back half). Best of both worlds.Ian.

author: adam1213
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 01:07:27 pm
content: I would like to see a video of installing a powerboard under the bench

author: robbak
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 01:28:41 pm
content: Oh drat: the live cam doesn't extend into that corner! I wanted to check if the new bench had survived a day without assuming a bench's normal role - a bench-height single-shelf storage unit.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: bookaboo on November 03, 2014, 09:15:49 amI'm pretty sure any reputable large distributor of electronics has them. At least Digikey has nice selection...So check your favorite component distributor...

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:34:05 pm
content: For those interested in work bench designs there is a great old thread in the General Topics forum, that can provide lots of ideas and inspiration, and is a very fun thread to read. I have my benches in there as well, come add yours to the thread.Here is the thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/BTW. Those looking for good prices on nice quality ESD mat, check out this guy in Canada. He has good stuff at reasonable prices. He cut some custom sizes for me, the shipping was fast, and the cost was excellent compared to commercial websites. He also does not charge more than required for shipping, so even in other countries like the UK/EU/etc you might want to check on his rates and prices which could still be better than anywhere else.http://stores.ebay.com/canvu00

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:44:26 pm
content: allright dave, whats up with the acoustical/rf foam in the background ? you building an anechoic/dead chamber ?as far as workbenches go : nothing beats Ikea's (discontinued) Jerker. I actually bought another one over the weekend. so i have 3 now. i already ordered another breadcart and a sheet of ESD matting.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 04:57:40 pm
content: The foam was added to cut the noise in the lab, mostly the echo from the door side when the aircon was running. Been discussed a while ago. It does work, as the noise floor and echo is a lot less after it was done.

author: klaus11
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 05:46:58 pm
content: Quote from: bookaboo on November 03, 2014, 09:15:49 amA little cheaper.http://www.satkit.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&ref=5755You can order the length you need.

author: jnissen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 07:14:40 pm
content: OK how many want to bet that Dave will fill this shelf with more junk and he will be complaining that there is no more space in the lab!Dave you need to evaluate what your doing with the existing space and possibly throw something out! Sell some of that EBAY stuff you intended to sell but never got around to.Yeah I better keep quiet or my wife will remind me that I have a big ebay pile of stuff to start moving.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 07:21:06 pm
content: My excuse is the PO is on strike........

author: sweesiong78
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 09:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on November 03, 2014, 12:20:50 pmActually looks like a good idea what you suggested for Dave's bench, the benchtop looks like it sways a bit when he's moving his Mantis around which cant be good for keeping the part still in the field of view.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 10:05:47 pm
content: Quote from: jnissen on November 03, 2014, 07:14:40 pmWhen the last wall is occupied by a shelf, the last corner filled with a bench, and the last square millimeter on the floor filled with junk, Dave will realize that nothing beats cleaning up the sty.-- Prophecy of the Cree Indians

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 01:53:29 am
content: Regarding ESD mats, it was mentioned that you need double sided (conductive side and static dissipative side). I havethis ESD kiton my bench & floor, it is only one sided (just black rubber). Is this ok for general use?

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:01:07 am
content: My comment on the English vs Metric distance thing is, it seems to have the same problem as the "uF" vs "nF" vs "pF" thing. At what point do you switch up to the next units.With English, you usually only hear up to around 24inches before converting to feet. Then it's x-feet y-inches or fractional feet. With metric you routinely hear people talking about hundreds (or thousands) of mm instead of tens of cm or fractional meters. It is much more rare to hear something described as hundreds of inches, and you almost never hear thousands of inches. But in the end like it has been said above one isn't better or worse than the other, it's all just a scale and as long as Google keeps doing conversion in the search box I'll still be able to get my work done

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:08:03 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2014, 03:01:07 amOdd analogy... I'm English, we measure in metric - how are you getting English "vs" metric when English people measure in metric. Decimalisation was the best thing to happen to the world, just a shame not everyone has caught up...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:27:44 am
content: Quote from: LektroiD on November 04, 2014, 01:53:29 amYes. Just make sure there's a 1M resistor in the path between each mat and ground (FWIW, seen posts of using 2M in the UK; had something to do with a ground plug adapter that's available).Main issue with single layer mats, is they tend to be made of PVC (usually just stated as vinyl), which dissipate the static charge, but immediately melt when poked with a hot iron or hit with molten solder. Rubber can take the heat, though is more commonly found in 2 or 3 layers (3 layer typically adds a vinyl layer on the bottom for greater impact absorption).

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 04:09:54 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 04, 2014, 03:27:44 amMine was supplied with 2M cables. These all connect to the grounding plate which has a common ground. There was no cable to tie it to mains ground, so I soldered a ground cable to one of the studs on the back of the panel and wired it direct to the ground pin of a standard mains plug.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 04:38:48 am
content: Quote from: LektroiD on November 04, 2014, 03:08:03 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_unitshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_unitshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_unitsWhatever you want to call it. But I have never once heard a person say "United States customary units".

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 04:41:51 am
content: Quote from: LektroiD on November 04, 2014, 04:09:54 amDidn't realize you got the entire kit. Was thinking you only got the bench mat.BTW, this is what I was thinking of regarding the UK ground adapter:Anti-Static ESD, Grounding, Earth Bonding UK Plug(1M ground cord + 1M in the adapter for 2M)Here, all we need to do is use ring terminals under the outlet cover screw (screw is safety earthed, assuming it's properly wired).Just have to remember to scrape the paint off the bottom side of the screw to get good contact.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 07:57:11 am
content: Quote from: jnissen on November 03, 2014, 07:14:40 pmMore competitions/prize draws!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 07:57:24 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on November 03, 2014, 12:20:50 pmIt might be strong, but it looks a bit like a Texas gurney with the sideboards missing. Maybe a coat of paint on the legs would make it look more pleasing to the eye. My opinion only, but if you spend so much time doing electronics, it is worth doing it around aesthetically pleasing furniture.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 08:51:29 am
content: Good source of ESD mate is TME:http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/#search=MATY&s_field=accuracy&s_order=DESC&id_category=112759&page=1

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 08:57:17 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on November 03, 2014, 10:05:47 pm... build a false floor above the first layer. Way more interesting than cleaning, and there's nothing so satisfying as leaving a good archaeological record.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 09:31:24 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 04, 2014, 07:57:24 amI can't see the point of making the tables from "timber" at least with my local prices.Even here "in the middle of nowhere" 2-hand office tables cost pretty much next to nothing and new table legs(steel) are like 3usd per piece. Steel frames for heavy duty use are bit harder to find.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 10:30:19 am
content: Quote from: mzzj on November 04, 2014, 09:31:24 amSame here, reaadymade stuff is often way cheaper than buying timber.But for some years ago, an local contractor used to make desks for me, just welded an frame of 1"x 1" square stell tubing, and I used an old door for the top. This contractor was building houses and stuff, and doors was often used as packaging for other doors, to keep them from getting destroyed in transport, often these extra doors was good enough for this kind of use, so I had couple of desks like that.Now I don't have room for this anymore, but those was very sturdy and good desks at the time.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 10:41:04 am
content: The big advantage of building benches from timber is that while cheap 2nd hand furniture comes in standard sizes, rooms rarely do.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 01:13:45 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 04, 2014, 07:57:11 amSounds like a plan!Being a newcomer, it appears I missed the boat with the weekly competitions. It would be great to see it reinstated.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 01:26:26 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on November 04, 2014, 10:41:04 amYep. Nothing can beat purpose building something that fits perfectly.

author: mattinx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 01:56:53 pm
content: No-one else seems to have mentioned it, but 900mm is near enough to 36", which is standard kitchen countertop height

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 02:39:32 pm
content: Nice Project..I made a 6,2 meter long bench, but the dealer of the esd mat recomended a earth studd in the mat for every 1,5 to 2 meters.. dont know if that is right but thats what i did.Erik

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:39:50 pm
content: for folks in the Us / canada : i buy my ESD mat here :http://stores.ebay.com/canvu00?_trksid=p2047675.l2563this guy has different widths and lengths.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:54:00 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on November 04, 2014, 03:39:50 pmI've bought from this seller as well. Excellent quality and prices IME.He'll also do custom sizes if you need it.

author: rodcastler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 07:14:32 pm
content: 5:00 - Good on you Chilean viewers! You made it to the EEVBlog!

author: (*steve*)
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 11:45:10 pm
content: Quote from: mattinx on November 04, 2014, 01:56:53 pmDave must be a bit of a short-arse, or have long arms :-) My bench height is almost exactly 1m and I have what appears to be similar "elbow clearance".I would recommend people try out various bench heights for themselves as I would struggle with a bench height of only 900mm (it leads to a sore back really quickly as I have to stoop over to use it).Incidentally, when we built our house we specified higher benches, which people first thought were odd -- until they used them. I think ours are between 70mm and 100mm higher than the standard, and again, they're probably around 1m (but I can check)

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 12:15:42 am
content: Quote from: Jaunedeau on November 03, 2014, 03:31:55 amOf you mean a " lip " round the edge , no don't do that , you'll regret it repeatedly , if you want to prevent things rolling off, seal the back edge and tilt the bench ever so slightly towards the rear.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 08:06:34 pm
content: (*steve) I agree with your comment about bench heights. I'm somewhat over 6ft (1.8288m) and find that at a "standard" bench height of 900mm I have 30 minutes before my back gives out. It takes even less to go when doing the washing up because I'm bent over even further; that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! Seated of course your forearms need to be able to rest comfortably for accurate soldering.Bear in mind that I'm in the UK. About 30 years I was on an study panel to recommend good practice for desk and seat heights which would be ergonomically suitable for as many people as possible in an office environment. Fundamentally seats and armrests, if provided, had to be height adjustable. Footrests should be provided if requested and ideally desks should be height adjustable too. Sadly the word 'ideally' ought to have read 'must'.Sound daft?Only 5 or so years later larger companies are into island desk arrangements because it projects a corporate environment and reduces real estate requirements for the workers. One size fits all again almost regardless of practical requirements. Seats were adjustable but desks were a uniform height. A number of my colleagues then and since couldn't even get their knees under their desks but any complaints were met by the statementIt's within regulationsOn a lighter note in the UK, during conversion to metric one would often hear plywood advertised as 8ft x 4ft x 12mm. It is no coincidence that equivalent panels are now 2440 x 1220mm.

author: MasterBuilder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 08:24:46 pm
content: My tip,Use glue on the legs and frame, it makes the bench sturdier and more rigid.I wouldn't use shop bought furniture, a bench should be built big and heavy.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 12:01:43 am
content: Quick look on dropcam via eebblog site:Before small bench was built - all benches are crowded except for mailbag bench in the middleAfter small bench was built - all benches are crowded including mailbag bench in the middleI think this is caused by strong workspace inflation among technical circles. If given initial workspace space is bigger, phenomenon can even cause hyperinflation

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 09:26:39 pm
content: Yes, I think that Dave has a problem keeping the lab tidy, one look at the Signal Path premises by way of a comparison should convince anyone of this. Some time ago I got into the habit of cleaning my workshop every Friday including putting away all the tools and running around the place with a vacuum cleaner. This increases the girlfriend acceptance factor but then my workshop is at home rather than in an office block.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 11:19:48 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on November 06, 2014, 09:26:39 pmCan't be any worse thanJim Williams'bench...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 12:48:48 am
content: I'll see your Jim Williams and raise you a Bob Pease.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 06:51:50 am
content: Hmm, how should I tell you this in the most gentle way? Dave is neither Bob Pease nor Jim Williams.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 09:05:55 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on November 07, 2014, 06:51:50 amEvidently; his desk is way tidier than theirs...In point of fact, it is not unreasonable for an engineer to have an untidy desk, if he works alone, then chances are he knows exactly where everything is, and therefore would not hinder his workflow. The amount of times I've tidied up and as a result not been able to find stuff... I'm still looking for my tektronix probe adaptors after my last tidy up!

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 09:07:17 am
content: Thank you for the Jim Williams video.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 08:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: LektroiD on November 07, 2014, 09:05:55 amI remember a video where Dave complained he couldn't find one of his tools. And that was before that big cleanup. And I remember another one where he stepped into a hammer, apparently not aware of its presence.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 09:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on November 07, 2014, 08:01:22 pmOuch! I know what it's like to stand on an outward facing garden rake and get bashed around the head by the handle. I can't imagine a hammer is much more fun...I secretly want to see the hammer video now, it might make me feel better about my rake incident.

author: Jorpy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 09:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: LektroiD on November 07, 2014, 09:11:55 pmHere you gohttp://youtu.be/T9cMjpCFioQ?list=UUr-cm90DwFJC0W3f9jBs5jA

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 06:49:56 am
content: What do you guys think, how high should the shelf (for measurement equipment) be from the tabletop? I'm designing myself a work bench and already bought a 2000x800mm hardwood tabletop for it. I'm most likely going to make the frame out of 45x45mm aluminum profile such as:The tabletop is 900mm off from the ground (like Dave recommended), shelf is 400mm deep and half a meter from the tabletop (so 1.4m from the ground), does this sound reasonable? Here's what I have so far (a quick lash-up in solidworks):I was even thinking of integrating a 19" rack under the table but that's probably being a bit too ambitious.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 07:59:05 am
content: Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 06:49:56 am450 - 500mm would be where you'd want it IMHO.Any reason not to use adjustable shelving rails and shelf brackets or tabs attached to the structural members that will hold the shelves?Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 06:49:56 amHow will it attach together, particularly where an end butts up against the side of another?Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 06:49:56 amIf you plan to stand or use a stool, this is fine. If you'll be using a standard office chair, it's too high. You'd want it ~750mm tall for a standard height office chair.Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 06:49:56 amWhat about bracing near the bottom (2 sides & back). That will leave the front open to get a chair underneath it.FWIW, I'm in the process of building a bench myself out of welded steel (pics). Not the most recent, but will give you an idea.The attached image is essentially how I've built it in terms of layout, only the second cross member on the bottom (one in the middle you'd be able to put your feet on) wasn't installed.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 09:17:13 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 27, 2014, 07:59:05 amI could add bracing yeah, a good idea. I just wasn't sure if I'd need it since the table will not really see a sideways load. For assembling the table with this type of profile there are massive amounts of different kind of fittingshttp://www.minitecframing.com/PDF/CATALOG%20332.PDFand I didn't feel like modeling themFor the shelf I thought that just screwing it to the ends of the profiles would be the sturdiest and simplest, rather than buying some kind of shelf fittings for it. I was thinking about adjustability though but not convinced I'd ever adjust it.About the height, I currently do not have a chair that would fit a high table like that. I was thinking of maybe a saddle chair, since I pretty much never lean back when tinkering. But my current whatever Ikea desk I use is something like 700-750mm high and it's just too low. When I use a regular stool or an office chair in the lowest position I still need to hunch a lot when I'm tinkering with SMD stuff so I definitely want it higher.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 09:41:49 am
content: Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 09:17:13 amI was aware of the track, but not all of the hardware connectors they offered. Rather nice, but does look to be on the expensive side if you're forced to use their hardware.Whats the track cost where you are?Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 09:17:13 amEasier than I'd thought (square nut in the channel + bolt + L bracket), and hopefully not that expensive as you wouldn't have to buy the stuff out of the catalog.Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 09:17:13 amMine's currently set at 32.25"/825mm. I find it fine with a normal chair, but that's me. There's another 1.5"/38mm or so of adjustable height I can get out of it as well if I wish.FWIW, I cut the legs at 30"/750mm, and the rest of it comes from the top thickness and self leveling mounts, which is where the adjustment comes in (welded a nut on the inside of the angle iron). Added carpet sliders on the bottom to make it easier to move about instead of wheels (easier to attach IMHO using the welded nut).

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 09:53:58 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 27, 2014, 09:41:49 amThe 45x45mm profile is "around" 20€/m (without VAT, around 7.5$/feet). Depends on the version, there are ones with different channel shapes inside (different strength? I dunno). The table will use something like 8-10m of profile depending on the bracing and stuff (probably I'll use some thinner/cheaper profile for the bracing). The accessories/fastening elements seem to be surprisingly cheap. For example the 45mm angle bracket is under 4€ each.

author: janengelbrecht
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:03:47 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 07, 2014, 12:48:48 amJim Williams Hmm.... how he gets any work done beats me...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:19:42 am
content: Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 09:53:58 amOuch, that does seem pricey to me.Thinking you might be able to find a ready-made, U-assemble steel bench with top for that, if not less. Looking for a used one locally could yield better prices as well as a nicer bench (might have drawers for example ).For the table itself in the pics, materials and labor ($50 in welding labor, $50 for the top, $35 steel, $40 in leveling mounts, $60 in paint IIRC, and fasteners), came in at ~$240 - 250 tops, so ~200EUR when it was all said and done. Thinking that's about half what you're looking at in T slot + brackets alone (based on same profile throughout).

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:27:33 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 27, 2014, 10:19:42 amIn my opinion the profile is really cheap, considering the flexibility it offersI haven't found any tables that suit my needs locally (used or new). All the tables seem to be either not deep enough, not wide enough or not height adjustable or all of those. Or look really really awful. Or made out of Ikea cardboard and cotton candy. And none of them have the shelf. The closest I found was one electrically adjustable one which was 200x80cm but it comes out at over 700€. So if I get work bench of my dreams that's made to fit and looks nice enough for the house decorating committee for 350€ I don't consider it a bad deal

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:43:38 am
content: Quote from: Dago on November 27, 2014, 10:27:33 amFair enough. Keeping SWMBO happy trumps all.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 04:31:19 pm
content: Just make sure that you add decent bracing, unless you fix the uprights firmly to the wall. Think about the weight of equipment likely to be on the bench - a sideways push may create enough momentum to collapse the legs and the higher the bench the less force required.