Cubiio laser - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rpannen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 10:23:29 am
content: This will create a lot of laughter at certification labs:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/880456201/cubiio-the-most-compact-laser-engraver

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 10:49:58 am
content: I'm surprised they even bother to mention certification.The fact they've reached over half a million bucks in pledges in just 3 days is concerning.This will have very few use cases if it ever ships. There will be many disappointed backers (as usual).

author: Rbastler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 10:55:34 am
content: I wonder if most bakers will get it, if it ships. Customs may take it out and destroy it.Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 11:18:15 am
content: Also had this in my "news" feed today.What could possibly go wrong!

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 11:26:09 am
content: Not a bad price for two galvos and a 1W laser.

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 08:49:34 pm
content: So... uh... 500mW output without the "shield" and it says metal can't be engraved or cut. How many people are going to try it anyway, pointing a 500mW laser at a highly reflective surface in the process? Potentially not even wearing safety goggles? Anyone wants to bet? I can see a class action lawsuit coming up...

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 08:22:13 pm
content: We have enough trouble with idiots getting hold of powerful laser pointers and aiming them at aircraft or vehicles, without something like this being sold.The government's talked about airgun licensing because of a few incidents of misuse of such. To me this is overreaction, but a requirement for a license to own a laser of (say) 1W or more would not be unreasonable. Potentially these things are more dangerous than an airgun.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 10:16:26 pm
content: Sorry guys ’n gals. I just could not resist

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 04:25:06 am
content: for lasers, especially for engraving, focus is absolutelycritical.there's no way they'll be able to focus in that tiny cube."Of course, the details of virtual lens algorithm are patented and confidential."patentedandconfidential? simply not possible. patented = published and open to public examination. therefore, this kickstarter is complete bullshit.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 08:24:14 am
content: Although something like this could be made to work - CD mechanisms do dynamic focus, and you could use various means to measure the distances for a non-flat surface, safety kills it stone dead as a product.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 08:33:34 am
content: "Laser Engraving is just as easy as having a cup of coffee"And just as painful as spilling a hot cup of coffee in your eye.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 04:07:22 pm
content: For what its worth, it is some how related to a Taiwanese maker of full scale laser markers.. That presentation video, with the speeded up laser marking, must have cost between 25,000 and 40,000 USD to make.. I'd like to be a fly on the wall at the CDRH offices in Maryland when the consultant shows up to try to push the approval thru.. No keyswitch, no warning stickers, emission indicator is non-compliant, etc...Really the US rules could permit it, provided it is operated in an enclosure to keep the emissions Class I. However the limit switches on such an enclosure have always been required to be hardwired.As for free air laser engraving, this is not anywhere near Class I or IIIA accessible energy limits, , so NO way... Again, unless some high Dollar Laser Safety Consultant, (I know three of them) finds a loophole I'm not aware of.Interestingly enough, they may, in some cases, be required to have a US National do the paperwork and accept responsibility, once a notification of potential liability occurs from the Government.Steve

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 04:51:36 pm
content: they'll just manufacture it in taiwan and find some backchannel importer to smuggle them into the US, like a lot of chinese lasercutter companies do.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 05:30:18 pm
content: Something else you can see in most of the demos is theu are blowing air across the surface to.clear the smoke.Might make for a less attractive vid if you see the kid coughing from the fumes.Not to mention the whole "setting things on fire" hazard...

author: Macman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 12:10:15 pm
content: I dread to think how much their product liability insurance would cost them (not that I really expect they will bother getting it).

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 12:48:55 pm
content: Thanks LaserSteve, good points about the lack of keyswitches, laser safety warning lights and not a single laser warning sticker in sight. OK so they have a teeny tiny LED for a warning light but you can hardly see it. I read somewhere that the optimum focal distance is 150mm to 160mm, so it's fixed focus. As for "Traditional galvanometer laser machines correct image distortion problem by using "f-theta lens" and the "virtual lens algorithm" patent bull shit, the scanning angle is very narrow so you don't need f-theta lens and some simple image pre-distortion algorithms will fix things, hardly worth a patent application.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 05:10:59 pm
content: A real question is did they correct for the laser diode's inherent astigmatism.. A 100 x 300 uM spot has inherent implications for marking, compared to a 100 um circularized spot. Divergence out of the uncollimated diode might be 15 degrees in the slow axis and 35 degrees in the fast axis.For small scan angles, say less then 10 degrees, the inherent mechanical tangent distortion is near naught, provided your target is very parallel to the scan head. Tangent Correction math is easy enough for a fixed focal length and scan angles to 25 degrees or so. Keystoning however is another matter.. How you position it for minimal keystoning or skew without tooling boggles my mind. You'd need to burn a test target.I've had my hands on the high power 405 nm diodes, and the uncorrected astigmatism is horrid. Not to mention there is heat dissipation to cover, and normally that family of LD runs around 600-800 mA at between 4.5 and 6.7 volts of forward drop, depending on manufacturer so you have around two to five watts of heat to get rid of.The galvos, if they use galvos, are going to be another ten to twenty watts of dissipation minimum unless they have something extremely custom made with high Ohm coils, which, if done, would run their slew rate into the ground due to inductance issues. Normal coil is around 3.2 Ohms.Where is the heat sink? Laser diodes don't live long when ran hot.Steve

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 06:54:44 pm
content: I don't see that galvos should be too.power hungry as they don't need to scan particularly fast, and tbe angle is small

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 09:25:58 pm
content: If they are not moving, just holding zero position, a classical Galvo amp (~5 mm mirror size) draws about 160 mA positive rail and about 120 mA negative railm and needs 12 to 24 volt rails for maximum performance. .When they move, if tuned for full scale marking or laser show speeds, they can have 6 to 8 amp peaks during acceleration and deceleration. A good galvo amp puts minimal energy into holding position, probably 600-800 mA DC for full scale deflection to one side. You'll have two of those. The 40 mA difference between rails at idle is the position sensor LED drive. You will have an X and Y axis on this system so there are two sets of idle currents.I doubt they are using Class D, its often very difficult to close a DC feedback loop as needed with the galvo, around a commercial IC based Class D amp.For those who do not know, low inertia galvanometer scanners are one of the fastest precision controlled objects on a the planet when they have either a capacitive or optical position sensor and a good PID loop with notch filters. Bandwidth can approach 7.5 KHz for very small angles on the latest systems.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 10:50:18 pm
content: Why would such a slow device need galvos? Wouldn't stepper motors be good enough for scanning?

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 11:20:42 pm
content: Hi guys, I recently had to re-design a galvo driver for a Cambridge Technology 6200H to replace a legacy design that would just about generate enough torque to overcome bearing friction. Anyway, the specification was that it had to run from a single 5V supply and the maximum slew rate only needed to be around 10 degrees (mechanical) /ms. Bridged pair of OPA567 op-amps for the driver stage with current limit set to 1.7A. Peak galvo current for a step input was about +/- 1.5A giving a risetime of 1ms or so, the mirrors were larger than usual. I think the overall loop gain from transimedance input stage to galvo drive output was a little over 130dB. Not exactly a really fast galvo driver but it did the job and would probably be more than good enough for a toy laser engraver.It was based on the classic Cambridge design with a few tweaks here and there and I will publish it on the forum if anybody needs a 5V galvo driver for small galvos only.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2017, 07:38:01 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on August 24, 2017, 09:25:58 pmBut for this application they don't need to be anywhere near as fast as laser-show galvos.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2017, 01:51:37 pm
content: http://www.funraniumlabs.com/2017/08/laser-products-hate/

author: ferrix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2017, 04:20:12 pm
content: That was a great read.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 05:16:01 pm
content: they came to their senses and realized their product was illegal as designed. so they announced it will now be downgraded to IIIB and have an enclosure.watch their backers lose their minds LMAO!https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/880456201/cubiio-the-most-compact-laser-engraver/posts/1975824

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: usagi on September 01, 2017, 05:16:01 pmThis updateposted after the one you mentioned is even more hilariousTake a look at the letters from Kickstarter linked in that post. They have until Wednesday to persuade their backers to switch from the tiers for a "free-air-cubiio" to the shield one. All perks from backers that did not switch will be canceled and refunded by KS.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 08:09:33 pm
content: Someone linked tohttps://www.tomtop.com/others-216/p-e2565b-eu.htmlin the comments.What extra shielding would be required to make this safe(r) as there is only 1 piece of "shield" on it

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 08:40:27 pm
content: So funny how they all don't get that they're wielding a freaking dangerous weapon when using this thing. Whining about how they can no longer put it on a skateboard, then say that the $99 illegal Chinese import can do just that... yeah well, try holding that Chinese company liable when you blind yourself (or someone else!) with it

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 04:29:52 am
content: "Kickstarter is forcing us to do these changes."no, the fucking FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is forcing you to.if you sell the original class IV laser with no enclosure in the US, you will GO TO PRISON.jesus, these people are seriously retarded.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 02:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: usagi on September 02, 2017, 04:29:52 amThe following is an example of a someone who should not be allowed around any tools or machinery lest they recieve a Darwin award.Quote

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 03:12:43 pm
content: Quote from: usagi on September 02, 2017, 04:29:52 amThe company is Taiwanese. They literally have no clue that there are actually (*gasp*) regulations in place for laserproducts, since down there pretty much anything goes.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 03:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: abraxa on September 01, 2017, 08:40:27 pmCubiio company is in Taiwan ... So not a whole lot of difference there.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 03:18:18 pm
content: How about this guy?QuoteHe doesn't realise the simple fact that Kickstarter is forcing this rule on Cubiio because the product in its original form would not be permitted to be sold (even imported) in most countries, and thus the creator could not deliver rewards (not that they could be able to deliver what they're promising either)

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 06:29:47 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on September 03, 2017, 03:18:18 pmWell, I am not sure that even the Cubiio team actually realizes this. The KS letter talks about "fulfillment risk" (aka not being able to deliver) but that it is because the product has no chance to pass any certification and be legally sold in the US or Europe is not mentioned anywhere. The Chinese stores like AliExpress or Banggood are full of dangerous contraptions like this, so they could be feeling unfairly singled out:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/JEDI-2500mW-Desktop-DIY-Violet-Laser-Engraving-Machine-Picture-CNC-Printer-working-area-20cmx16cm/32552641483.htmlorhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/CNC-Engraving-Machine-1000mW-Automatic-DIY-Print-laser-engraver-mini-USB-Engraving-Machine-Off-line-Operation/32821151492.htmlorhttps://www.banggood.com/2500mW-22x17cm-Desktop-Violet-Laser-Engraver-Engraving-Machine-Picture-CNC-Printer-DIY-p-1005604.htmlSo while that backer may be clueless, I wouldn't blame him for not understanding this. It is not him (or her) who should know that!

author: Codebird
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 06:39:34 pm
content: Some of those dodgy-looking home engravers look like they might be halfway-decent for making circuit boards on. I've been using a milling machine, but it's so finicky only about one in three boards comes out right. I usually use stripboard unless I really must have SMD parts.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 07:49:04 pm
content: Quote from: Codebird on September 03, 2017, 06:39:34 pmThey usually sell these cheap (and crappy) CNC machines as "engravers", because a bluray diode in a casing costs peanuts and hey, extra feature!

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 10:14:58 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on September 03, 2017, 06:29:47 pmYes they do. They're just in denial, due to a million plus dollars being on the line.Quote from: janoc on September 03, 2017, 06:29:47 pmYeah, fair enough - but if you back a Kickstarter you're responsible for doing some research and critical thinking.Even Cubiio linked to the AvE video (that rips it a new one) in one of their updates.Maybe this whole KS is just a scam to get AvE more viewers! Dave should think about this

author: biot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 11:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on September 03, 2017, 06:29:47 pmHere's a video review of another cheap laser engraver from Bangood:The safety problem with that thing is downright spectacular, as is demonstrated.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2017, 09:29:48 pm
content: Quote from: biot on September 03, 2017, 11:04:55 pmYeah, no crap given about safety. Just bolt a laser diode to a gantry and call it an engraver ...

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 06:19:52 am
content: Quote from: Rbastler on August 18, 2017, 10:55:34 amI've heard of that kind of thing happening before:(first 2 mins)Could be fake, but still more realistic than a laser cube.I cannot help noticing that all these bullshit projects have repulsive "i-Apple-Smart-Fad-Connect-Online" style aesthetics and nomenclature. We are now in the Stoner Age.

author: timothyaag
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 01:06:21 pm
content: Did they really just make an IGG?https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cubiio-the-most-compact-laser-engraver#/

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 01:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: timothyaag on September 12, 2017, 01:06:21 pmAfter all, they think people are stupid and would not notice....sadly people are that stupid and would not bother even if they noticed.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 08:40:52 pm
content: Quote from: frozenfrogz on September 12, 2017, 01:16:00 pmIt says "FROZEN", I think for once Indiegogo actually got em.

author: DJohn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 09:59:09 am
content: Quote from: timothyaag on September 12, 2017, 01:06:21 pmSomeone posted it on the Kickstarter comments and asked if it was theirs. They said no, and they would ask IGG to shut it down. Looks like they did.It'll be the usual case of a scammer cloning a successful campaign on another site, hoping to get some easy cash.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 11:44:44 pm
content: Looks like they have added a three axis accelerometer to. "Enhance" safety.Steve

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 05:15:51 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 04, 2017, 11:44:44 pmBut how is that supposed to do anything? An anti-tip feature?

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 12:04:35 am
content: They don't disclose the algorithm, butMy bet is it looks for local vertical to keep the regulators happy.Steve