POLL: Specific Instruments Forum Section - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 05:15:57 am
content: I floated this idea in the 121GW meter forum thread where I unstickied the 121GW meter thread from the test equipment section.Given there are many specific instruments with very large forum threads, what if once a specific instrument thread gets enough discussion (say 5 pages?) then it gets elevated to a Specific Instruments section (or maybe called Most Discussed Instruments?) where no one is allowed to start a new thread, it just contains stickied specific instruments threads of note.That way it would be an easier place to find a thread on a specific instrument you are interested in and highlight specifically popularly discussed instruments.This forum is after all the #1 place in the interwebs for discussing test gear, and countless people come here to discuss a specific instrument. So makes sense to have somewhat of a "database" section of specific test gear threads.There are probably at least a couple of dozen suitable candidate threads already.Alternatively, it could just be section where you are only allowed to start a thread if it's on a specific instrument? Otherwise if just goes in the general test equipment section. But I figure that would devaluethe use of such a section and it would just get flooded, hence why I suggested it's an admin thing once a thread has reached a certain level.EDIT: It just occured to me that they can't all be stickied because that's a fixed order, so best to have an admin thread were only the worthy make it, and the latest commented one goes to the top of the list.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 05:22:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2021, 05:15:57 amIt doesn't make it any easier to find specific information inside a huge thread though.For that you need google (or whatever search engine you use).If you're using google then having a Specific Instruments section is pointless, so...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 05:23:57 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 06, 2021, 05:22:21 amIt's not to help with search, just general thread visibility like how Sticky topics are used.Or it could be named Most Discussed Instruments section?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 05:42:36 am
content: From the thread where Dave spawned his idea:Quote from: tautech on September 06, 2021, 05:39:39 am

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 06:58:31 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 06, 2021, 05:42:36 amThat idea has been shot down by the community before, as you end up with dozens of different boards and people have said they prefer to subscribe to/browse all general test gear threads.The thing that's different here is that only old threads that have gained a certain level of popularity gets moved over, so that way you don't miss any new threads on the general test gear section and it continues to work as-is.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 07:24:33 am
content: OK so you'd like to group popular instruments into a single board presumably only to make them easier to find ?If so then why not just a sticky index thread where not only would links to such worthy threads reside but also list them by brand and/or instrument type ?Wanting similar for Siglent products I asked them to list all the then current threads here so to make them easier to find:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 08:25:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2021, 06:58:31 amOK, if the idea is to remove clutter from the general board (ie.notto make the long threads more visible/special) then it might be a good idea.ie. The longest-running threads will "vanish" from the main board but interested people will still see them because they're subscribed.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 08:45:21 am
content: A too long thread is useless. Nobody will read all that 100 pages blurb, no matter how sticky. Do you ever go to sticky topics on other forums? I usually don't.My guess is people find topics by search engines, not by reading a section's sticky topics. If those instruments are that popular, then they'll float on top anyway with each new post, so no need to make them sticky.About making yet another section, I think there are already too many sections with so little activity it makes them look like little cemeteries.Then, if you make some of the topics sticky, you'll impose a fake popularity, with time you'll lock the section in its own fake world, like it happens in a search bubble. Nobody wants to see a section with tens of sticky topics that never goes away. That gets old fast.Maybe keep the GW121 or any other instruments you sell sticky, and that's it. Let the rest be effervescent.If it's just the engineer's urge to keep everything well classified and categorized, well, we must resist that OCD.If it's some other plan than "easy to find", then go ahead and see how it goes.IMO you found the winning recipe already, this forum is great as it is, thank you for keeping it running!I think it doesn't need any "better experience", any "for your own good" everybody hate so much these days. It's at its peak. Therefore I think no matter what, it won't grow much from now on. Quite contrary given the current trend, because it looks like the western world is going backwards. It's not the forum, it's the world.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 09:43:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2021, 06:58:31 amSuch threads tend to get outdated relatively quickly.I second what RoGeorge wrote. There are way too many forum sections already.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 11:54:37 am
content: Just to add that I see many people come in the forum to see comparisons and experiences with several equipments/brands.That makes individual equipment stickies totally useless and permanently outdated.My head aches just trying to imagine in which sticky thread I'll be searching/posting/following my favorite msgs. I never go into stickies.As the previous posters mentioned, the best is as it is.Better, only by improving the search engine or leaving it totally open to Google crawlers (they are the best in the business).Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2021, 05:15:57 amMaybe the reason is because this is the best format.BTW, the TEA thread as sticky is. But that is an example of a correct sticky.Even GW121 threads shouldn't be sticky in this day and age. They give an appearance of "regional/limited" forum just intended in promoting such equipment when this forum is much more than that. It contains an infinite amount of info about an equal number of equipments ranging all the price spectrum.PS: Remember, this is the best because of people's opinions/experiences NOT because it's an organized repository of equipment's datasheets or BS marketing videos!I vote no.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 02:39:31 pm
content: The place for instrument specific pages and even lists of relevent forum threads is onyour wiki. However you need to get the long-term loyal users to engage more with the wiki. I would suggest giving users above a particular post count, or supporters page creation rights there. If anyone abuses the privilege, rescind their rights on the wiki.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 03:07:36 pm
content: I don't think having them stickied is going to work, but I do like the idea.The question is what sort of thread or post should be designated an equipment-specific one vs some other sort? There are the long, running threads that meander across many subtopics, but are all device-specific. Take the FeelTech AWG thread(s) for example. The other might be a relatively short thread where the OP does a teardown, writeup or some other extensive commentary about a specific item. I plan on doing one myself that I think might be interesting to read but would be pretty arcane and isn't going to generate 5 pages of comments. One type is essentially a popular information and help thread the other just some interesting reading for a very few people.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 03:32:39 pm
content: Mixing all threads about , say, 3458A, would move discussions from repair, metrology, buy/sale parts into one forum, which might be more confusing at first.Maybe using some "keyword tags" about specific instruments would be better idea? E.g. threads stay where they are , but there would be some button in thread like "Show all -related threads" that is essentially a custom search that shows all XXXX instrument threads?

author: ralphrmartin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 06:01:16 pm
content: What would be more useful, perhaps, would be to split the "Test Equipment" board into a few more specific boards, perhaps:MultimetersOscilloscopes / Logic Analyzers (because of MSOs)Spectrum Analysers / Vector Network AnalyzersFrequency Meters / Waveform GeneratorsOther Test EquipmentWhile you are at it, Other Equipment could also be split intoSoldering EquipmentProgrammers (perhaps)Hand ToolsOther Equipment

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 07:30:32 pm
content: I like the idea in the sense that it sounded more efficient to find specific information, but as others have said things may already be at their best as-is.It seems that things get cluttered fast because a lot of similar topics on a same instrument are opened regularly when sometimes searching and following up on an existing topic would make more sense.I find TiN's has a good alternative idea. Maybe search engine and database that can be updated or corrected by members.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 07:58:49 pm
content: Quote from: TiN on September 06, 2021, 03:32:39 pmIt would put the burden on the OP to determine whether the post and resultant thread should be considered dedicated to that particular model of instrument or is a more general--or just different--discussion that happens to involve it. The way I would see it working is for only those discussions that are clearly dedicated to one particular instrument--like a teardown/review or a comprehensive repair/restoration--would be put in this new category.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 08:21:30 pm
content: Adding few keywords into additional optional box when thread is created does not feel like much burden? Also can be automagical (e.g. threads where XXXX mentioned over 25 times). Often related threads about bigger stuff also worth to include in search output. Say one looking for recommendation to buy particular instrument XXXX and seeing it show up in other projects involving XXXX (but not dedicated specifically about XXXX) can be a good source of info. After all there is lot of offtopic in various hot threads, where XXXX is praised (or blamed).It also shouldn't be manual process, as that definately adds lot of overhead and moderators might not be familiar or know about XXXX enough to judge if thread relate enough or not for inclusion.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 08:56:52 pm
content: Quote from: TiN on September 06, 2021, 08:21:30 pmI'm not objecting to the burden either way. I'm just wondering how wide a net to cast when including threads in a instrument-specific category. I recently made two posts that were about specific instruments--the Fairchild 7000A DMM and the Fluke 5101B calibrator--but the questions were about replacing an old op-amp and troubleshooting a specific circuit. I wouldn't have wanted those to be in an instrument-specific forum or thread because the the discussion is really about something else. In each case, people who maybe wouldn't be so interested in the equipment itself gave me some ideas--and even an old ADO-26B op amp in the mail. OTOH, I might write up something on the 7000A as I'm fixing it up entirely and I think it is a fascinating piece of equipment for historical reasons. That would definitely belong in the category proposed.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 12:55:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2021, 05:15:57 amAlthough knowing that I am the minority, I personally like to browse the forum and would be in favour of such section - my suggestion for the name: "Top gear". 😁

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 04:03:44 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on September 06, 2021, 08:56:52 pmIn that case, I might suggest you post your comments in a thread which would be appropriate under the current structure - and then add links to those comments for the pieces of equipment that have the same circuitry in each of their respective equipment specific threads.This could apply to an unconstrained list of equipment sharing common circuitry with only one copy of the relevant material.For this to become effective, however, anybody responding to such material would need to be mindful of where their post should appear - in the thread with the common material or in the equipment specific thread.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 04:21:10 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on September 06, 2021, 08:45:21 amI do not see the "popularity" element relevant at all. I see the 'sticky' section as a place where threads are promoted when they demonstrate the usefulness this idea is presenting. Incidental or irrelevant threads started on such a board (which is going to happen) will remain outside the sticky area which will prevent the sticky area - the area of focused interest - from being diluted.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 04:22:33 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 06, 2021, 09:43:23 amQuote from: tv84 on September 06, 2021, 11:54:37 amSorry, but both of these comments - and any others of similar sentiment - are completely irrelevant.If I'm looking up information on my HP3478A, I don't care if the last post was 5 years ago. The information will either be right or wrong - it will never be outdated.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 04:23:36 am
content: Having said all the above, I'm ambivalent about the idea.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 06:37:04 am
content: Quote from: shakalnokturn on September 06, 2021, 07:30:32 pmThat's not what Forums are for. Forums are a place to hang out and shoot the breeze.You want a web page with information about a specific instrument? Set up a Wiki.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 06:43:12 am
content: A thread for each brand seems like a good idea, this sections is clearly overflowed.Only popular ones, ex. Siglent, Tektronik, HP, Keysight, Hantek.... then a generic thread for the rest.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 09:29:44 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 07, 2021, 04:22:33 amNot only that, but the forum search works very well within a thread, thus increasing its usefulness by a huge margin.The threads that become partially outdated are usually the ones where the equipment has firmware updates - however, for a great deal of other equipment (DMMs included) the information stays quite stable over the years.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 09:49:46 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 07, 2021, 04:22:33 amSorry, outdated was probably not the best word.I meant that, due to the fact that nobody can't ensure that everyone will only talk about Siglent in the "Siglent sticky", there will be Siglent related info spread in many other messages. Some of it most probably relevant but that people only looking inside the "Siglent sticky" will not follow/catch (maybe except tautech...).Today, most of the members tend to help anyone that creates a new thread, despite the fact that there is another thread already with that theme. Sometimes redirect them to the original thread, other times continue answering also in the new thread.With brand stickies what will happen? People only answer in the official brand sticky? What happens if a question regarding Siglent is placed outside the Siglent sticky? Nobody should answer? People should be discouraged to answer it? Not answering such things, IMHO, tends to drive away the new members and starts to put this forum in an exclusive member club where only the members that strictly follow every rule feel comfortable and/or accepted... I think that should not be the spirit. (And, don't get me wrong, I'm the 1st one to hate guys that don't do a minimal research before creating a new thread.)

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 09:58:30 am
content: My 5 cents worth.Why try to fix something that ain't broken.With google (or other engines) search a lot of the topics come up when searched for a specific instrument, so no need for instruments specific stickies, in my opinion.One improvement for me would be to by default return to a topic one posts in.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 11:22:58 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 07, 2021, 09:58:30 am

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 11:38:50 am
content: A long time ago, it was stated on this forum that its function was not archival. Hence, a relative lack of stickies. I agree with that assessment. Most posters, it seems, don't bother reading them anyway.A better search engine might help, but the current one generally works well enough for me. Lacking that, Google supplements.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 11:56:11 am
content: If this was agreed to, who is going to research all the old topics and apply a sticky or whatever is required? You know there's151,455 Topics on the forum now?

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 12:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 07, 2021, 09:58:30 amMy preference, too.Can be set permanently as you wish, by checking the checkbox "Return to topics after posting by default." in Profile -> Account Settings -> Modify Profile -> Look and Layout, then press the "Change profile" button.If you click while logged in Elforum, the next link should take you to that checkbox:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=theme

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 12:36:03 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 07, 2021, 09:49:46 amThat is a fair concern.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 02:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 07, 2021, 06:37:04 amSInce EEVBlog has a wiki section, perhaps if one of these specific instruments threads is started, a parallel wiki page should be created as well. Even a mediocre wiki page would be an easier to use reference than 50 pages of forum thread.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 03:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on September 07, 2021, 02:26:51 pmThan the question arises whom is going to fill the wiki page. You don't want to just copy everything written in the thread to the wiki page. As an example the hacking of the MSO5000 series of Rigol. A very long thread with a lot of useful information but that is maybe only 30% of the thread, whilst the rest is members thanking for the hack or asking questions they could have find the answer to if they just read the thread. (I read all the, at that time, 78 pages) Also of topic garbage, pardon the expression, that only some find amusing is filling things up.And yes I know, the FNIRSI 1013D thread is mostly just me spewing my findings and adventures in reversing the software

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 03:57:35 pm
content: That's why enthusiasts of specific instrument models should be encouraged to create wiki pages for their favorite instrument models, if one doesn't already exist. They already have favorite topics here and are capable of rapidly reviewing them to index key sections. Unfortunately the current workflow of 'message Dave to request page creation' turns a spur of the moment decision to contribute, into a task that requires pre-planning and scheduling so few take it up.

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 10:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 07, 2021, 06:37:04 amI get the idea and come here for that too, mainly at TEA...OTOH while googling for information on test equipment over the years I find that the hits on the EEVblog forum are more and more frequent likely because the forum is bulging.Maybe Dave also sees this and is polling for that reason.I don't really see any point in opening new topics on questions that have been asked and answered before in numerous topics just because it's too hard to use the search engine first.When I'm looking for information on a piece of TE, I'll first go to KO4BB then if it is Tek, HPAK, LeCroy or Solartron I'll go and search on groups.io, then Google search and finally check here. Even if it isn't intended to be, this forum is a great source of information.On the whole no, I wouldn't like to see it changed to a per-model organisation. I'd sometimes like it to be more synthetic organised. The compromise between the two doesn't seem easy without a good search engine that would automatically suggest existing topics to new posters.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 11:03:55 pm
content: I wonder if there is a way to mirror the threads, eg leave them in Test Equipment as is, but then have a section or subsection "Popular TE threads" where the same thread could be listed there as well.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 05:08:15 am
content: Finally voted no.Instead IMO a sticky and locked index thread in the TE forum containing only organized links to threads that initially Dave thinks worthy of being in such an index and later threads that members put forward for consideration of inclusion by reporting them and suggesting such.Another alternative to reporting a thread for inclusion to such a index list is an associated (linked) and open thread where suggestions of worthy threads can be posted and discussed.Obviously there will be some ongoing maintenance but this can be shared by moderators.A fine example is the POI list is down a bit in first post of the TEA thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 06:50:42 am
content: The only thing I would split is the repair section in to two sections:Repair: Test EquipmentRepair: General

author: Bobson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2021, 10:10:31 pm
content: It would be great if long threads (say, 10 pages or more) or popular equipment (e.g. 121GW) be given special status. It would reduce number of threads discussing the same. For example, there are dozens of Hantek DSO 2xxx related topics.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 02:29:14 am
content: Long threads in general are hard to navigate. It would be good if one could increase the limit on the number of pages when one can click on View All. Another useful feature I've seen in other forums is to have an image gallery of all images uploaded within a thread.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 03:42:39 am
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on October 25, 2021, 02:29:14 amI have tried to add a POI list into the OP to improve navigation but this only works if the OP is active and motivated to do so. We could all do more to help with long threads.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 03:43:14 am
content: Quote from: Bobson on October 24, 2021, 10:10:31 pmThat forum feature is called a Sticky thread. The problem is the forum section quickly ends up with a huge list of Sticky threads at the top of the page, and you have the scoll down forever to see the new posts.

author: Just_another_Dave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 11:42:07 am
content: Quote from: ralphrmartin on September 06, 2021, 06:01:16 pmI think having these subsections in the test equipment or metrology section could be useful, while avoiding to have too many sections in the forum. Additionally, it could also allow to focus the section on testing methodologies while keeping reviews in organized subsections

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 03:37:31 pm
content: Quote from: Just_another_Dave on October 25, 2021, 11:42:07 am+1

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2021, 04:00:51 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 07, 2021, 11:03:55 pmI was thinking the same, this would be the only way to keep everyone happy. But I leave the voting for the veterans.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 06:21:44 am
content: Quote from: Just_another_Dave on October 25, 2021, 11:42:07 amI believe this has been voted on before and the majority said that they want it all in one big test equipment section.

author: Just_another_Dave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 08:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 28, 2021, 06:21:44 amI must be weird, thenI like subsections

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 10:25:38 pm
content: I like the current sections myself, topic based, IE test equipment, repair etc.MAYBE just adding a brand subsection under each of the categories, such as Repair/Fluke, or Repair/Datron etc.... that way the current main topics are left alone without mixing up the topics, and it adds refinement and easier browsing to items of interest.For instance, when I have been working on the Datron series of equipment, I had to do multiple searches for each model in the series to try and capture as much info as possible, if they had all been in the same sub category it would have made that a lot easier, the same can probably be said for some other equipment which has a lot of similarities across the instruments made by one manufacturer.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2021, 01:18:51 am
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on October 28, 2021, 10:25:38 pmTechnically there is no cost to doing that. The problem comes about when people start (rightly then) wanting sub sections under every major category.It was done for the CAD tools way back becauase it seemed appropriate. But the concensus seems to be people not wanting that elsewhere on the forum