Recommendations for SMT assembly in the USA; 1000 boards per production - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: radiostuff
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2024, 03:27:12 pm
content: There was a post a few months ago which requested feedback on American companies that did PCB fabrication. This is the natural follow up to that post.For producing around 1000 boards per production run, which small shops do you recommend? I'm interested in the smaller assembly companies because the medium-sized (and larger) generally have defense and medical customers, which means they typically focus on higher margin projects.The one and two-person shops don't usually have the right equipment to handle 90+ uniques and X-ray inspection, so the ideal is probably a small business with less than 10 employees, but more than just the owners operating the machines.

author: aeg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2024, 09:44:10 pm
content: America is a big place. Look online for CMs inyour area, call a bunch, talk to someone in sales at each, tell them your qty and special requirements. If it's a job they can do, send them BOM and Gerbers and get a quote.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2024, 10:08:54 pm
content: Better start with the location so people can recommend assemblers nearby. In my experience, it is better to give an assembler a trial job if you can't find recommendations. Some assemblers are good, some are bad and price is typically not a good indicator.One thing I'd look for is whether they use a vapour phase soldering machine. From what I've seen so far, this soldering process seems to lead to better solder joints compared to IR / hot air.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 10:30:33 am
content: Quote from: radiostuff on October 17, 2024, 03:27:12 pmIf you are a small CEM who accepts small jobs, you'd be surprised how quickly the personnel count ramps up. We haven't got as far as having X-ray, build our own stuff in small batches and other peoples products from PCBA to full box in batches from typically from 25 up to 1000. We're operate with 15-20 people and 6 of those are not involved in production. Design, stock handling, Customer relations, purchasing are all dedicated full time roles when you are handling 1000's of lines and hundreds of orders. We have outsourced jobs we weren't equipped to handle before, and some of those placers have run with smaller staffing levels, they accepted pre kitted jobs and did nothing but SMT and very low level assembly. DRM advice, product development, testing, QA beyond "we stuck it through the AOI" , not so much. We are still a small company by turnover.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 11:07:04 am
content: I'd say there clear benefits from a customs and freight speed to having a CM in the same country but I can't think of many of having them in the same city etc. Do you really need to visit the CM? I don't use a CM or do work for others but I've communicated better with some American and Chinese parts suppliers than I have with some Australian ones.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 12:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: loki42 on October 18, 2024, 11:07:04 amI think that depends on the relationship you want to have with your supplier. Most of our clients are either somewhat local or industry adjacent, those that aren't probably got to us via word of mouth from someone who was. Its much easier to develop a good relationship if you can add a personal touch like dropping in to talk over detail, allowing an on premises pickup if a courier is too slow and work in the same timezone and language. Same city might be ambitious, but < 2 hours away can sometimes be a huge advantage to some people. Of course Australia will have its own challenges with its unique population dispersal and size.

author: kylehunter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 06:18:30 pm
content: I'd say my company ticks pretty much all your boxes, MicroType Engineering. ~ 10 employees, full SMT and THT support. 2D/3D AOI, real-time XRay, washing, etc. Though, we do a fair amount of military/Aerospace work, we won't come anywhere in the same ballpark as China. For bottom dollar assembly, a small company like ours won't ever be that for production runs of this size. There's a reason why the cheapest fab and assembly in China are from massive corporations. This type of work scales really well.What you get from a smaller company more so in my mind is, much faster turn times, better communication and flexibility, as well as usually much cheaper prototype and small batch runs. For an average complexity board, say ~ 50 line items, 200 - 400 placements, we'll almost always be comparable or cheaper than a bigger shop at less than 200 boards or so. Above that they tend to win.With that said, we're fully AS9100 and ISO9001 certified, so it's hard to be super competitive with shops that either don't have any certifications, or just have 9001. There's not a ton of shops that are 9100.One last note, 90+ unique's is a pretty complex board imo. Especially since you mention XRay, I assume you have BGAs. If you want to have 100% XRay inspection of each board, that will be incredibly expensive. Most shops including us have a standalone, batch style XRay, not an inline AXI. Few companies do 100% XRay coverage other than automotive and space. We typically use it as a process indicator and first article inspection.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 06:35:17 pm
content: IMHO having 3D AOI is make much more sense compared to only X-raying BGAs as AOI can also pick up things like bad solder joints. BGAs are not very cumbersome parts to solder and if something goes wrong, the package will be tilted or mis-aligned. Something which AOI should pick-up quickly.

author: kylehunter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:26:03 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 18, 2024, 06:35:17 pm100% this. We actually had the XRay before the AOI. Now it seems like if you just have one of the two, you really are missing out on a lot. They work so well together, you almost need to have both to get the full benefit.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 04:43:43 am
content: I can recommend the local place I've been using. The assemblies have been really high quality and the price is good for domestic. They have done both 25 piece production prototypes runs and 100/500/1000 piece full builds for us. Super nice guys.ACME PCB Assemblyhttps://boardassembly.com/

author: radiostuff
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 07:31:52 pm
content: Quote from: aeg on October 17, 2024, 09:44:10 pmI've done this a lot, which is how I came up with the non-scientific assessment that most American CMs tend to focus on defense and medical (and automotive). And that makes complete sense! Stick to the industries that pay the most and where you can get more business.

author: radiostuff
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 07:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 17, 2024, 10:08:54 pmWhy does location matter? It's easy to get to virtually any place in the country and productions don't happen all that frequently.

author: radiostuff
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 07:39:03 pm
content: Quote from: loki42 on October 18, 2024, 11:07:04 amI agree that having a CM in the same city is not that valuable. If there is a production that requires some hand-holding, then I just fly out and stay for a couple of days. I've done this in both the US and China.

author: radiostuff
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 07:49:51 pm
content: @kylehunter I don't expect any anyone in the US to be anywhere close in pricing to China. They bill clients at a labor rate of $7 and most US companies will charge at least 10x that rate--and there is nothing wrong with that. Sure, after you factor in duties and shipping costs, the delta does decrease, but it's still a large gap to close.The reason for this thread is to develop relationships for new products that have enough margin to support US-manufacturing.

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 08:06:30 pm
content: If you don't mind coming to bay area I would recommend SMS (https://www.surfacemountsolutions.com/).Reasonable prices, 2 small lines. Definitely not defense contract oriented, we've used them for small prototype runs, but they can do a thousand boards too. They have an X-ray only but IMO that's okay for small run with decently tuned yields.

author: kylehunter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 09:31:28 pm
content: Quote from: radiostuff on October 20, 2024, 07:49:51 pmOh sure, I didn't think you were implying that, I just wanted to make sure for anyone else. Since I know sometimes the USA fab threads pop up and people expect US fabs to be close in price to China!But definitely shoot me over some info and I'd love to give you an idea of pricing and our process for our shop.

author: Accu-Sembly
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 09:12:32 pm
content: We are located in Southern California. Family owned and operated for over 40 years, currently about 75 employees. Everything that goes through SMT gets 3D AOI inspected; X-ray validation done during reflow profile validation, but can be done 100% by request. Similar to posts above we strive to work with our clients and grow with them as their product does.https://accu-sembly.com/contact_us/