JLC Assembly - Digikey orders being cancelled - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 12:05:08 pm
content: I've had some weirdness with JLC Global Sourcing - a Microchip part, in a specific package (DFN8) is showing in stock at DK and Mouser, but not when I search for it in JLC Global Sourcing. Other packages of the same part are shown in stock, with quantites matching thiose on DK's siteA couple of weeks ago I'd placed an order for some of these as the previous order I had via JLC sourcing was taking a long time. The JLC sourcing parts eventually arived, but the Digikey order was cancelled with no explanation.Anyone else seen anything like this ? Are DK/Microchip limiting supply to JLC, or is it likely a screwup somewhere ?JLC are showing stock at Arrow, but with a potentially longer leadtime and significantly higher priceAs an alternate - does anyone have experience consigning parts direct from DK/Mouser to JLC?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 01:46:08 pm
content: Seems to have fixed itself after I emailed - had this happen in the past - email them about an issue and it gets silently fixed with no acknowledgement

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 09:25:51 am
content: So they just cancelled my order ...."Upon reviewing your order DOB202410240213190, part PIC16F15313-I/RF wascancelled due to restrictions of buyer identification from the originalsupplier, they do not offer this part to JLC because JLC is only atrader. Sorry for the inconvenience caused."I have ordered (different) Microchip MCUs via JLC in the past, and this order had a Microchip voltage regulator, so I wonder what's going on - time to Email Digikey I think.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 09:30:56 am
content: I'm just about to put an order in to PCBway for some PCBA that will need digikey orders.Will post here if I get this issue.Hopefully PCBWay has a more professional relationship with digikey than JLC.JLC always seemed a bit dodgy to me. But I've never used them for customer facing PCBA so can't really say for sure.Only used them for a development PCB one time because 6 layer was much cheaper and I figured it didn't matter much if they screwed anything up since I could fix it with some bodges.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 09:46:47 am
content: Just had this reply from JLC"As the feedback from our purchasing team, it is a restriction from Digikeyfor this specific part PIC16F15313-I/RF. Sorry about that."Have emailed Digikey....

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 10:44:24 am
content: Re-ordered from Mouser - let's see how that goes - should at least indicate if it's a Digikey or Microchip problem.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 10:49:24 am
content: A good number of PIC16F15313-I/RF are available to ship from Microchip Direct in a few days.Do JLC not offer a way to order parts from Microchip Direct? Shipping from Thailand (most common) should be no more expensive than from the US.Digikey and Mouser do sometimes have weird restrictions on parts.Edit: Might as well drop a direct linkhttps://www.microchipdirect.com/product/PIC16F15313-I/RF

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 11:09:46 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 07, 2024, 10:49:24 amI did check there, but they're showing estimated ship date in 13 days - I'm already way behind on this project due to multiple small issues with JLC that have each taken a day or two to resolve. I've never seen Microchip Direct show up on JLC Global Sourcing search, so would need to consign, with uncertain delays & possible extra charges for duties etc.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 11:21:17 am
content: Not sure why you're blaming JLC for US politics.If you look at the part on Digikey's website, you can see it's ECCN 3A991A2. This indicates its export is tracked by the US government, REQUIRING Digikey to refuse export of these without a license.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 11:58:20 am
content: Quote from: jduncan on November 07, 2024, 11:21:17 amI'm blaming JLC/DK for not being clear - I shouldn't need to know that stuff, and it should be flagged when I place the order, not some time later with no clear reason given.Who would expect a tiny 8-bit PIC to have more restrictions than the 32-bit PICs I've ordered in the past. looking into this further it may be because the clock rate exceeds 25MHz.Parts like these are used by the zillion in China so there must be a way for this to work.LCSC shows 32MHz PICs, and I did order some through JLC's own sourcing for protos, though they took a while.There should also be a mechanism for recognising that the end-customer is in the UKSo dumb.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:21:14 pm
content: And in the ultimate worst case - you could have ordered a load of other parts for a build, which are then committed to JLC assembly, only to find that one part turns out to be not obtainable so the whole job is screwed after you've paid for parts you can't use.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:21:32 pm
content: This is why catering to hobbyists is a brutal business model.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:47:17 pm
content: Quote from: jduncan on November 07, 2024, 12:21:32 pmThis has nothing to do with hobbyists - I'm doing a commercial job worth about $2K

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:55:42 pm
content: Then you really ought to be prepared to handle issues like export and custom regulations.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:56:01 pm
content: I do recall a similar issue where PCBway couldn't order parts I had spec'ed in the BOM from the analog.com store.I'd ordered from there before and the prices was much better than Digikey but they refused to deal with PCBway/china directly.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 01:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: jduncan on November 07, 2024, 12:55:42 pmWe expect to look at these issues on cutting-edge stuff like big FPGAs etc., but how many people here could honestly say they'd think of checking for export status on a jellybean device like an 8-bit PIC?How many people know what ECCN 3A991A2 means?I expect professional suppliers to be clear about any issues like this, and not just accept orders and cancel them with no explanation, delaying me getting my work done, and leaving me to figure out what's going on.I can't believe JLC haven't seen this issue before.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 01:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 07, 2024, 01:15:43 pmI certainly didn't.I work with customers to get some stuff manufactured in China, and I've never come across this issue - or been alerted to it. I know complex export rules apply to certain other parts, but never had a PIC mcu flagged.The main CM we use in China do buy some parts via Digikey, but that CM very likely has the appropriate export licenses. I have a similar PIC on a BOM (PIC16F18424-I/JQ) that isn't yet being produced in particularly high volume so those parts are likely coming from Digikey.I have not used JLC for PCBA though.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 01:50:03 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 07, 2024, 01:15:43 pmThe one worse thing is not to be told they are cancelled.Ten years ago before recent troubles, I had an Avnet Express  order transform from 3 weeks into 5 months; I only discovered that by pure chance; I was not informed.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 02:56:57 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 07, 2024, 01:15:43 pmI tend to agree. JLCPCB have highly streamlined their "global sourcing" ordering process, giving you realtime pricing from the various sources they can order from. So you would expect them to be able to check the suppliers' catalog data for export restrictions at the same time and highlight any parts they cannot order for you.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 04:20:43 pm
content: Will be interessting to see if the Mouser one gets through - unfortunately IME Mouser can take a while to flag export issues without telling you.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 06:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 07, 2024, 02:56:57 pmI think "no"- it's very difficult to ID parts on a sanctions or tariff list. When they aren't on the list, there is a delay and constipation regardless if it's even a North American distributor, as admin people try to figure it out or give up. How the danger semi's are classified is very difficult for non-English speaking or non-technical people. Export category varies with country as well. It's just easier to cancel the order.Quote from: jduncan on November 07, 2024, 12:21:32 pmGoing back to the 1970's, hobbyists made Digi-Key, they built it up. Old CEO commented on that.Because small hobby/prototype orders would pave the way for engineers to do larger production volumes, it was convenient and this made them come back.Digi-Key even back then was the most expensive yet best service possible.Is that working today? I don't think they are well-organized or efficient and people are getting used to ordering from chinese traders, along with the massive discounts and massive risk for getting junk.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 06:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 07, 2024, 06:00:27 pmYou might have missed jduncan's post which explained that the export restriction is indicated right on Digikey's website (see below). JLCPCB could easily poll that export classification from Digikey together with the price and stock info, and if it is not one of the "all clear" categories, exclude the part from their Global Sourcing program. That's what I was suggesting they should do.Quote from: jduncan on November 07, 2024, 11:21:17 am

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 06:51:23 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 07, 2024, 06:13:09 pmThis. Or even better show a message explaining why the product is not available.BTW JLC actually show the ECCN in their part search result.I actually wonder if the issue is a little deeper - from the original messageQuoteSo perhaps they can get 3A99 1A2 parts from Digikey if Digikey are satisfied as to the end userI haven't yet had a response to my email to Digikey. You can bet I'll be talking to someone at both companies at Electronica next week. ( Last time I had a good 10 min chat with Dave Docherty before I clocked his name badge & realised it was the CEO I was chatting to!)

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 07:19:33 pm
content: Mike, this is most likely little to do with the US/China politics but a 100% screwup on Digikey's part. I had something like that happen many years ago - also tried to order some PIC18s from Digikey (to France, btw) and they demanded that I fill several pages of ITAR forms, send it to them by fax and even demanded I "verify" my credit card with them over the phone. For like 10€ worth of parts.I have told them in no unclear terms where they can stuff all that and ordered it from Mouser instead. No problems and no issues.Likely your order got flagged by some overzealous bot for whatever random reason.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 08:20:08 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 07, 2024, 06:13:09 pmOP's flag is UK, yetECCNis American from U.S. Department of Commerce so I got a little confused over the middleman rules.I thought Digi-Key in Europe would not involve the USA

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 08:27:31 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 07, 2024, 08:20:08 pmI would very much assume that JLCPCB order parts from Digikey in the U.S. (where, I believe, all of Digikey's inventory is anyway).

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 09:00:31 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 07, 2024, 08:20:08 pmDigikey do not ship from Europe- it's all in the USA

author: Selectech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 01:42:59 am
content: I've had some issues getting 3A991A2 parts to JLC.Digikey usually ok, although had a couple of cases last year that didn't work out. Seemed to be better this year after JLC started asking about end use when placing the order. 32 bit ARM controllers, > 25 Mhz clock rates.Could not get any 3A991A2 parts from Mouser to JLC this year at all. Other simpler parts from Mouser went ok.Anything that's warehoused in the US is subject to these issues. I did manage to get some 3A991A2 parts that were warehoused in UK to JLC.Keep advance stock in JLC 'MyParts" to be sure to have parts I need when I'm ready to build.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 10:15:36 am
content: There is now a Fedex tracking number for my Mouser order so fingers crossed.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 12:33:56 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 07, 2024, 08:20:08 pmLiterally impossible to not involve USA, since Digikey has only one warehouse for the entire planet, and it’s in USA. Same for Mouser.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 04:44:55 pm
content: I don't expect US tariffs to get added on for European shipments?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 05:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 09, 2024, 04:44:55 pmUS tariffs apply to itemsimportedinto the US. We are discussing exports from the US here, right?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 05:53:53 pm
content: Isn't the part exported from the USA to JLC for assembly then sent back to the UK or is it the USA?It's hard with the shell-game but when I looked further into it, there are proceedings for unlawful semiconductor exports to russia, iran etc. military and drone parts, for years now.https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-nationals-charged-illegally-exporting-us-origin-electronic-components-iran-andDefendant Illegally Transferred Hundreds of Thousands of Dual-Use Semiconductors to Sanctioned Russian Entities with Ties to the Military and Intelligence Agencieshttps://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/businessman-pleads-guilty-export-and-tax-charges-connection-shipments-sensitive-technologyhttps://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/virginia-company-and-two-senior-executives-charged-illegally-exporting-millions-dollars-us"As alleged, the defendants operated an e-commerce website that allowed Russian customers to order U.S. goods and technology directly from U.S. retailers, who shipped the items to Eleview’s warehouse in Chantilly, Virginia. The defendants then consolidated the packages before shipping them to the Russian customers, often using other freight forwarders as intermediaries, in exchange for a fee. After the Department of Commerce imposed stricter export controls in response to Russia’s further invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the defendants began shipping items to purported end users in Turkey, Finland, and Kazakhstan, knowing that the items were ultimately destined for end users in Russia."It's wrecking it for all of us - the small guy, the small business trying to buy parts, when it's multi-million $ shell companies at work ordering from distributors.edit: keeps modifying the URLs'

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 07:15:16 pm
content: I still don't understand what that would have to do with theUS tariffsyou had mentioned?

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 07:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 09, 2024, 05:05:29 pmIt's complicated, because it may be a re-export and tariffs can be deferred. You'll see this if you buy an imported part and a sec. 301 tariff is added to the line item. This is because a distributor doesn't have to pay tariffs on an entire shipment and can instead collect it from their customers as a separate fee, or tax. I'm sure if they turn around and ship deferred-tariff parts internationally they incur a documentation burden that makes small orders (like mine below, for qty 5) unrealistic. Don't think this is relevant to the OP, but I thought I'd just mention it for completeness...BTW, ITAR is not a U.S. thing, it's an international treaty. It's just that some nations handle treaties as government or legislative guidelines, while in the U.S. when the Senate ratifies a treaty it does so in the form of adopting alaw. Which then applies to the government. If it's not law, i.e. the fallout of violating it is political rather than judicial, then it's much easier to adopt a "flexible" interpretation in the face of pressure from industry.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 06:17:00 pm
content: Tracking shows parts from Mouser arrived in HK on Monday, appeared in my JLC parts lib on Friday.JLC say this delay is due to customs clearance.I talked to Digikey at Electronica - they say they usually enquire with the purchaser (JLC) if they need info on the end-user, and cancel if they get no reply within 3 days. I suspect that's what happened