Kill a Fluke 287 with a Halogen Lamp - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LuisCabane
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 05:41:36 am
content: Hello EEVBlog Community,My first post, and a freaky one.I have a Fluke 287 meter, wish in almost every way, I love it.I'm from Santiago, Chile, Sound Engineer, and the ability that the meter has to show dBv, dBm reference to whatever impedance, datalog and capture transient peak from "power on" of equipment, etc, is awesome for my classes. Should point that I'm a teacher of Sound Reinforcement on a Sound School here on Chile.Anyway, a month ago my meter went wrong.I was data loggin some currents of a project I'm developing with Arduino, and it just happen to be a cloudy day back then, so I turn on the lamp that I have on my desk. Just a normal lamp, 50w Halogen.I notice that the meter, when passing the 5 minutes count, when it's suppose to go on battery save mode, and shut down the screen, It actually power off, and the most freak thing is that a strange line appears on the screen, as if it you just take the battery off on the middle of the recording.I put new batteries, datalog another parameters (volts, ohms, etc), probes on, probes off, and always, on the 5 minutes count, the meter shut off, and that freaky line appears.Line that I call "The line of Death".So I think, firmware issues. I when to Flukes page, and no. I have the latest firmware. Anyway, I upload the Firmware that's on the page. No problem at all. The meter by the way doesn't tell you anything about uploading the same version, etc, It just reload and everything fine.Then, trying it again, I unplug the USB cable, but only from my computer, and leave the IR Interface on the meter itself.Bingo... Problem solve. I when back datalogging until I actually remove the cable. Problems back again.Conclusion. If I leave the lamp on, that is actually just on top of the meter, facing down to it, the problems come back again. If I turn the lamp off, problems solve.I'm sure that it has to be something going on with the light going directly to the IR Interface. The meter doesn't have a cap or anything in the connector, it is just there.Trying with other types of lights, doesn't give me any problem at all. It's only with a 50w Halogen lamp, one pretty warm, very "yellowish".I have my meter set up for Auto Backlight Off to 5 minutes, and Auto Power Off to 15 minutes. The only thing that is solving the problem, besides covering the IR Interface with the cable itself, tape, or anything, is disabling the Auto Power Off function, which reading the manual, doesn't allow the meter to go in battery save mode when data logging, it just keep the screen on.That's it. Fluke 287, made in USA, lifetime warranty, Last Firmware, bla bla bla. And after all the test, I notice that the meter is actually acting strange. Operation is more slow than usual, the backlight timer work when it want to, etc, etc.I think I just happend to K.O my 287, with a 50w Halogen lamp....Sorry for my bad English, but it's a little rusty.Here's the link of a quick youtube video I made today.Anyone dare to put theirs 287 to the test???Maybe Dave could rant about it.... Fluke hasn't answer me at all.That's it.See ya!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 08:31:09 am
content: A halogen lamp would definitely put out enough IR to turn on what I assume is a phototransistor in the IR interface, and it is plausible that they didn't consider the situation where the PT is turned on continuously, so maybe it;s getting stuck in a loop waiting for it to turn off.You may also find that when illuminated by the halogen lamp in this state it draws more power from the battery.BTW Dichroic is the correct term - it refers to the reflector, which is designed to absorb some of the long-wave IR (heat) output while reflecting the visible light.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 09:51:16 am
content: I've noticed a similar issue with CFL lights.There was a brand of CFL that would keep turning my TV off!I'd be watching TV and then randomly the TV would just switch off, took a while but worked out that the CFL in the room was causing it.It must have be putting out enough IR at ~39khz to either.. overload the TV's IR circuit or randomly produced IR in the correct pattern for the TV off code.Quite strange.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 10:55:59 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 14, 2011, 08:31:09 amI would imagine that's an AC coupled circuit?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 11:35:59 am
content: Quote from: Alex on July 14, 2011, 10:55:59 amNot necessarily. A halogen would have an AC and DC component due to the thermal mass of the filament.An IR data link can be as simple as a phototransistor on an IO pin with a pullup resistor, and would not normally be expected to see a DC light signal in this sort of application , but a halogen lamp could easily pull it low continuously, or at a different distance produce a continuous 100hz signal

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 11:40:32 am
content: Ok I did see the video and I think that the problem is solely at the IR-USB cable, and not to the meter.There must be some crack on the plastic (hole - space - opening) , that lives external light to enter in,the IR LED communication becomes poor, to the point that the simple Comm Port commands to become corrupted.The DMM does not have any way to deal with this corruption of Data, because it works in real time.And any problem in the transmission of the Data in to a computer, it would cause at the DMM an software crash.If I was in your shoes, I would ask for an replacement of this IR-USB cable.Another problem about the IR-USB cable could be the plastic cover of it,some times in some remote controls the use clear plastic with dark color ,and so if there is a strong light source around, the shit hits the fan !!The IR-LED gets blinded and the communication becomes corrupted.You gave the quick solution about your problem by your self, at the last minute of your video,by saying that : If you cover the IR-cable with some common isolating black tape,the communication restored and there is no problem.I need some close up pictures of the IR-USB cable ( DMM end) so to say more.800x600 will do .Currently you have one totally healthy DMM, and issues with the IR-USB modem..

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 11:42:52 am
content: Ok. I'll try it on a 289 with a 200W lamp.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 12:06:57 pm
content: Unfortunately I only have a DC power source here. The 289 IR port exposed to a 1" dia collimated beam from a 200W halogen lamp powered from aDC sourceshowed no erroneous behaviour during data loging. Luis, a good test would be to use your lamp on the 287 using a DC source.

author: vl400
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 08:44:09 am
content: Fluke 289 under a 25w halogen desk lamp (AC mains powered) does the same as Luis, switches off with the line briefly on the display.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 12:47:12 pm
content: Quote from: vl400 on July 15, 2011, 08:44:09 amWith IR USB cable active, or just the DMM ?

author: LuisCabane
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 02:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on July 15, 2011, 12:47:12 pmKiriakos, just with the Meter.On the video maybe wasn't clear. Leaving the cable hook up to the meter is only for covering the connector, cable to the meter, usb disconected from the computer.Haven't try with a DC yet...

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 02:56:04 pm
content: Ok , well did you contact Fluke about it ?Did you notify the company in USA, or your local distributor ?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 08:41:23 pm
content: It might not be a problem in the USA, where the mains frequency is 60Hz.

author: pablo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 11:16:36 pm
content: In this sort of multimeters, firmware becomes a little bit complex to debug. This has already happened to Agilent.Perhaps the firmware's serial routine wasn't that robust after all. I think they have to contact Fluke for a firmware update.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2011, 03:27:28 am
content: The question is if he had notify the right people at Fluke ?If not, I would not have a problem to do it for him.

author: pablo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2011, 05:21:59 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on July 16, 2011, 03:27:28 amWell... Kiriakos, people like you and Dave have gained some relevance into the electronics community. I bet both of you can help a lot, by your reviews and acting like some kind of bond between companies and end users, by the way, sometimes there is a huge gap.I think companies are interested in what consumers have to say, but also are more interested in their reputation (which i think is the case). Nowadays they have to take care of their reputation because it may change way too fast because of theinternet (a wonderful tool for the masses).Thanks.

author: LuisCabane
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 08:07:05 am
content: Quote from: pablo on July 16, 2011, 05:21:59 amKiriakos,I actually contact my distributor but no answer back. Also send Fluke emails about it, no answer as well.If you can contact someone, please feel free to do so. If you need anything just tell me about it. Serial number, etc, etc.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 03:00:02 pm
content: The distributors follow specific procedures about returning back products to any company,and no one can help about speeding them up, most of the wasted time, are due the transportation time.The usual time needed are about 3-4 weeks in my region.And so you have to wait like every one else about getting back your unit.The local distributors they can not act by their own, and offer any replacement.They have to wait patiently for the resolution that the manufacturer will suggest.The emails to Fluke, they are received and directed to the proper people, but they can not do anything, until to receive the troublesome unit, and test it.The people at Fluke are always helpful and fair, they are technicians like us.Be patience for those 3-4 weeks, and If you do not have a second cheaper DMM as backup, start thinking about getting one.

author: DuaneS
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 04:50:35 pm
content: Luis,The IR port problem you are experiencing is known to Fluke. The port is sensitive to high levels of ambient light. We are currently looking into why this is happening and potential solutions to resolve the issue. You have discovered the best workarounds for the moment. Shield the port from high amounts of light, with either tape or the IR connector and/or disable the battery save. Not perfect solutions but the best for now as we look into solutions. We appreciate the feedback.Duane

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 06:05:30 pm
content: Is sunlight a problem or is it just a mains lamp running off 50Hz which causes the error?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 06:26:05 pm
content: What matters for now, are the fact that this problem is known to Fluke and under investigation.And due this fact, its not wise to send back to Fluke any DMM with this specified IR port problem.For now, only the promise of Duane about notifying our Dave Jones, as soon his own folks come up with the final fix,is all that is needed.

author: DuaneS
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 20, 2011, 06:16:17 pm
content: Yes, the issue would include bright sunlight as well.Duane

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2011, 01:31:20 am
content: Well I found accidentally the the flashlight video ....And I do have a question, does this DMM comes with out at protective cover at that port ?Even if there was no technical issue, just because the hole is at the top of it, it should had one cover,so to protect it against dirt and dust !!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2011, 01:35:00 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 07, 2011, 01:31:20 amNop it doesnt, not really a reason to have one unless you take it for a dive in a swamp.

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2011, 01:35:18 am
content: Quote from: LuisCabane on July 14, 2011, 05:41:36 amThat does not mean it could be another firmware unknown issue.David.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2011, 02:01:25 am
content: Quote from: Alex on October 07, 2011, 01:35:00 amThe mister optimist striked again ...LOLNop, this is not a toy like the ones who collect dust on your bench,in my eyes looks like an industrial DMM, and it should be capable to survive even in the swamp

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2011, 02:51:40 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 07, 2011, 02:01:25 amWell if it doesn't need one, it doesn't need one. The IR port is from solid clear plastic and the signals involved are digital. If you abuse the DMM so much to render the IR port unusable then something else would have failed first, like the probe sensors.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2011, 06:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on October 07, 2011, 02:51:40 pmThis can be true, but I like covers ... probably its just me.

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 10:53:00 am
content: Exactly the same issue on my 289 - I had also narrowed it down to light into the IR port. I lost quite a few logging sessions on a solar installation before realizing what was going on!Easy workaround for Fluke: design a black rubber port protection cap and ship it with the multimeter - and offer an option for existing customers to have one shipped to them, after all this is what registering your meter should be about!

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 01:19:45 pm
content: Actually... rather than just wish for Fluke to make it, I just designed a cap. After all 3D printing is not that difficult nowadays:http://www.shapeways.com/model/373094/fluke_protection_cap.htmlAs soon as I manage to test the prototype and it works ok, I'll make it available on Shapeways for others to make if they wish.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 02:33:21 pm
content: I would call it something like 'protection cap for Fluke 287/289', the current name might be considered trademark infringement since it suggests it to be a Fluke product.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 03:44:06 pm
content: Quote from: elafargue on November 05, 2011, 01:19:45 pmIf you start the production of it , send me one email, I have some ideas so to help about the distribution.

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 04:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 05, 2011, 02:33:21 pmQuite right, thanks, I just changed the name:http://www.shapeways.com/model/373094/protection_cap_for_fluke_287_289.htmlWould be ironic, though, to do Fluke's job for free & get in trouble for itActually, Fluke might be able to issue a firmware update to correct the problem, but they have not issued regular updates for a long time. My own meter has got a more recent firmware (1.2) than the one on their web site!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 04:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: elafargue on November 05, 2011, 04:15:53 pmGotta love the lawyers.Good job on the fix, maybe Fluke will get around to fixing this some day.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 04:36:40 pm
content: lawyers can make money if they start attacking to all those ebay sellers who set titles as " good as Fluke " to no name products.But for those lawyers its easier to drill hole in the water , than start a wild chase about a plastic cap that is a third party accessory.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 05:07:34 pm
content: There's a subtle difference between calling something 'for Fluke' or 'like Fluke' and calling it a Fluke product. Seea similar issue with the Windows trademark.I'm sure the lawyers would write letters to the water to cease and desist from flowing into the hole if their client would pay them.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 05:34:50 pm
content: Basically every test leads manufacturer with shrouded banana plugs that gets in to a Fluke DMM , he uses the text "for Fluke" .Pointing out the compatibility aspects of the product.This is totally legal and indisputable.The point is that there is not that much 287 world wide, with a 5$ per cup ratio, your profits would be 500$ if you are lucky.. LOL

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 08:25:34 am
content: ... let's see whether this cap works fine first place, right ? ;-)

author: Richard W.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 07:14:09 pm
content: Maybe a protection cap for a Sub-D connector (9pin) has the right size for the ir-window?It's just a guess, but it's worth a try

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 07:24:27 pm
content: What ever works in it, it must be made from soft rubber.Even in my city I have a small factory than can do for me even 1000 of then, in just few hours,but they will be just white plastic, that its not the perfect material for this job.

author: mrcreaker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 13, 2011, 06:42:27 am
content: Just did a quick test for fit since I had some available and it appears a standard DB15 female (not male, which is slightly too big) dust cover fits snugly over the IR port on the Fluke 287/289.Here's a link to the dust cover style, though the one I have is solid black, not translucent/frosted:http://www.iec-usa.com/cgi-bin/iec/DB15HCFI'm not sure a translucent/frosted version would prevent the problem.Also found this, which may work:http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=8717

author: AheadOfTheTimes
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2011, 12:27:31 am
content: Interesting thread. Surely a conventional bulb will put out more IR (since they get hotter) than CFL or halogen. Assuming the halogen bulb is 12V, the lamp base has a transformer which is probably a SMPS. Those can operate at any frequency from about 30kHz to 1MHz +. Is the light from the lamp actually modulated at those frequencies, or is it RF coupling to the meter, I don't know. Similar story with CFL. Usually the SMPS is in the 30-50kHz range, which is where a lot of IR communications also operate. Another reason to hate SMPS (which unfortunately are essentially mandatory since 2001 for efficiency reasons).

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2011, 01:52:18 pm
content: I have been trying to log temperature underneath (in the shade) of my solar panels with my 287.. Could not understand why logging stopped... Until I found the you-tube video.So even in the shade outside - the meter shuts down while logging. (I do live in a place with A LOT of sun and reflections...

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2011, 10:13:19 am
content: ok, I just received the cap: this is a perfect fitBelow are a few pictures of the cap and how it fits on the DMM. Material is black nylon, looks pretty opaque to me. I just started a one-day temperature logging session in front of the window, so I will know by this evening whether this cap does its job properly.I just opened the item for ordering on Shapeways, you can check it out at this URL:http://www.shapeways.com/model/373094/. If there is strong interest, I suppose it would be cheaper to do a large run - maybe in black silicon - rather than individual 3D printing, but in the mean time, here you are! By the way: if you place an order, please make sure you select "Black" and not "White" !

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2011, 03:44:55 pm
content: The first picture are over exposed ... the second looks to have the natural color.Now you need a bit of radio tuning string, few centimeters will do, so to be tight up with the holster, and become impossible to loosing it.Few knots will work as anchor, from the inside of the holster.and about the cap it self, a tiny holeinone of the sides will be enough to pass the nylon string, and do few knots too.If you dislike the color of the radio tuning string, an black permanent marker will do the rest of the miracle.

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2011, 08:48:47 am
content: Hmm, it seems the cap is not enough, the meter still crashes when in the sunlight. This is weird, since the plastic is really opaque, but there must be a bit of light still leaking at the base... I'll do another revision to improve behaviour.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2011, 10:26:16 am
content: Do you know how transparent the cap is to the near infra-red part of the spectrum?Just because it's black, it doesn't mean it's not semi-transparent to IR.

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 07:57:32 pm
content: Yes, I think it lets too much IR through... ok, that was worth a try, I'll try to find a black DB9 dust cap...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 08:53:05 pm
content: You could try lining the inside of the cap with aluminium foil glued in place with epoxy resin - that will definitely reflect any infra-red radiation which makes it through the cap.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2011, 11:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: elafargue on November 20, 2011, 07:57:32 pmWould it be a higher IR irradiance that what is normally reflected off surfaces like your bench?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2011, 12:14:51 am
content: One conclusion is that the cap does not absorb enough IR, the other is that IR through that port does not cause the issue. Does adding extra IR-blocking material, like tape or the alufoil Hero999 mentioned, help? Maybe there's another path for the IR to reach the sensor, or it's something else like heat. Do you see any difference, like sensitivity or time until the problem occurs? If there's no difference at all, I wouldn't expect adding more off it to help.

author: elafargue
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 02:21:01 pm
content: Yes, adding a simple sheet of paper on top of the cap makes the problem go away, and simply removing the paper switches the screen back on when sunlight is shining on the portI'll try to mold something out of Sugru next time I order stuff from Adafruit!