Crazy claims made by electronics/electrical salesmen - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 03:43:42 am
content: Around 1983, I walked into electrical store in Randwick in Sydney after being attracted by a big sign says "The Compact Disc is Here!" I walked in and the salesmen told me the CD players spin the discs around at 50,000 kilometres per hour."More recently I walked into a vaccuum cleaner store. He did not sell Dyson, but sold Chinese brands instead. I asked why and he said the Dysons are rubbish - they break easily - that is why he does not sell them. We went out of business soon after.I am interested know know other fairy stories told by salesmen over the years to those of us who are not easily fooled, especially when it comes to electronics. I have many more experiences, but these two stood out in my memory.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 04:12:05 am
content: The guys math is off by a factor of 200, but its still a rediculous number,its a circumference of 37.6cm,a 52x read speed (max) was 10400RPMso 0.376 * 10400 * 60 minutes in an hour / 1000 meters in a kilometer,the edge of the disk is moving at ~235 Km/hrThat number is crazy sounding to me now that i have done the math, no wonder those drives got hot, the air drag on the edge of the disk, and the motor power to fight it would have set in stone that max speed more so than the risk of disks exploding.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 04:14:21 am
content: This was not mine, but from a manager I had. He was part of a company that manufactured telephone sets (including cordless) and one day at a store he was looking at a 900MHz phone of their own. The sales person approached him and started talking about how the 2.4GHz phone was much better than the one he was looking at. He then asked: "how better?" And the salesperson: "I really don't know, but it has A LOT more MHz than the other one!"One day I was at an auto show and was looking at a booth that installed leather in car seats. When I asked why leather was better, the person said: "I don't really know, but I think leather concentrates the body energy and gives you a much better feeling - yes, that's it! It improves your well being..."

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 06:08:51 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on January 27, 2018, 04:12:05 amAccording to thishttps://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/LawrenceFung.shtmlthe speed would be about 4.7 kph for a music CD. I must say even 50,000 kph would be not be fast enough to chew through the Justin Bieber Christmas Album.Another thing I overheard a salesman tell an elderly couple that if they did not buy his $100 power line filter, his new Sony LDC TV will likely blow up, causing a house fire. And that smart people use good power line filters on their TV sets. I told them it is a waste of money, but they bought it anyway.Just today I bought a new Panasonic microwave oven. I did my research and got a great deal on a quality product. The saleswoman and salesman tried to gouge on an extended warranty a few times, saying that for an extra $58 I will get peace of mind for a 4 extra years. I then explained the bathtub curve, and they left it alone. Extended warranties on electronics is pretty much a waste of money, and they know it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 07:17:45 am
content: Of course they know it, many of these stores earn the majority of their profit on the extended warranties. If it was a good deal for the consumer it wouldn't make money and they wouldn't offer it.I so rarely buy anything brand new that I hardly know what a warranty is anyway, and usually it's less hassle to repair something myself even if it's under warranty than jump through the hoops to have them fix it.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 07:52:56 am
content: The only thing sleazier than those stores are those mobile phone contract salesmen in malls. They always do this weird calculation on a piece of scrap paper, and it never checks out. They just expect people not to be able to do quick addition and multiplication in their head.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 08:12:13 am
content: "This store runs on 100% renewable energy" signs.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:49:34 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on January 27, 2018, 08:12:13 amI love Dave's review on the Dyson vacuum cleaners, "No carbon brushes means zero carbon emissions!" As Dave said, "Ya gotta be s**tting me!"We get a lot more BS from unscrupulous German car manufacturers like Volkswagen who conned people the world over with their slick marketing and false advertising while they were secretly gassing people with nitrous oxide. Most of us would not have had the reason, test equipment, resources or education to disprove their BS, but someone fortunately smelled a rat. I guess most of us electronics people are more resistant to BS, but we are not bullet proof.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:35:44 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on January 27, 2018, 08:12:13 amHow do the green/renewables electric utilities do that? Do they put filters in the power supply lines that only let pass the green electrons or what?

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 12:32:06 pm
content: Well, coal is clearly renewable energy?I mean trees consume the CO2 and piss out oxygen (Too much of which is toxic), then the trees die and eventually turn into coal, which we burn with the waste oxygen from the start of the cycle to put the CO2 back....I can make a similar argument for oil, just insert the dinos into the loop at the appropriate place, and dinosaur conservation is one of humanities few conservation success stories, there are the same number now as when humanity first walked the earth!Ultimately both are solar (and thus Nuclear) power.You sometimes get really dirty looks for explaining that perspective!Regards, Dan.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 12:35:29 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on January 27, 2018, 12:32:06 pmNo wonder

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 07:21:08 pm
content: I think a good rule of thumb is to not trust people trying to get money from you.I think it's all pretty common and too often people don't question things.Had one that would drive me nuts telling people all kinds of crap so when I got on site to install they would say, so this is all wireless right?

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 08:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2018, 03:43:42 amHe's not wrong, besides the portables which are actually decent, Dyson vacuums are shit.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 08:10:37 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2018, 09:49:34 amI was disappointed that they got caught actually. VW found a way to get around the draconian anti-diesel emissions laws we have in the US. Not to say that I think there shouldn't be emissions laws but ours are heavily biased against specific types of emissions produced by diesel engines. It ignores the fact that the higher fuel economy means less total emissions. Not to mention the latest crop of gasoline direct injection engines produce relatively high NOX levels but our regulations focus on particulates.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 08:52:06 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on January 27, 2018, 04:12:05 amBut 52x speed wasn't available back then, in 1983. There was no need for it.At 1x speed, the disc will be at maximum speed, when the laser is in the middle, which is 500rpm according to Wikipedia. The diameter of the disc is 120mm, giving a circumference of 0.377m. The maximum speed of the outer disc is 0.377×500 = 188.5m/minute×60 = 11.31km/h.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM#Transfer_ratesQuote from: dmills on January 27, 2018, 12:32:06 pmIf I remember rightly, coal forms from peat, rather than trees.Peat is considered to be renewable energy by some, but that's bullshit, since it's being used, faster than it's forming. A resource is only renewable, if it's used sustainably or it can't be depleted.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:04:58 pm
content: If we converted into electricity a high % of the sun's light, wouldn't that cool down the earth?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 27, 2018, 09:04:58 pmNo, you're just intercepting the incident energy landing on the ground. Anything electrical will eventually dissipate its energy as heat. Nothing lost, nothing gained.That should be our ultimate goal for a green planet, 100% solar.EDIT: I'm not sure about tidal energy. Theoretically it might draw additional energy from the Moon by decaying it's orbit slightly faster. I don't know if that would count as net addition of heat versus normal tidal friction.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:22:38 pm
content: The plants grow and an elevator lifts you up, thus not all work is transformed into heat.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:28:13 pm
content: The plants also die*... and the building the elevator lifted you up in eventually falls down, just a matter of time.EDIT:*... and get converted into fossil fuel, that you hopefully don't burn this time! So true, that one stays locked up.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:41:00 pm
content: And if I travel in a Tesla from NYC to LA and never come back?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:46:04 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 27, 2018, 09:41:00 pmYou'll have a more miserable life?Surely the Tesla will dissipate it's energy as friction (=heat) on the way. I think the altitudes are about the same.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:49:52 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2018, 09:49:34 amIf that was what they were doing, VW dealers would be painted paisley just like head shops!

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:51:23 pm
content: And if I point a 100 gigawatt laser to the space and turn it on?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 09:55:55 pm
content: Hmm, don't know. Some possibilities are...1. You'll annoy the neighbors2. You'll waste Terra watts of energy as heat.3. ? ? ?But yes, you might rather inefficiently dump some heat .... but what if you point it at the Sun?P.S. Did you just suddenly relocate from Antarctica to Poland?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2018, 03:43:42 amI have to admit AvE's reviews of Dyson equipment doesn't instill a lot of confidence. There's a nice bit here and there, but a lot of chancy cheap choices too.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:09:10 pm
content: Then let's build millions of skyscrapers to store it long term as potential energy, that will cool the planetQuoteYes it was too cold there.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:13:14 pm
content: Or we could save that PV energy into batteries, a zillion powerwalls, climate change solved.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 27, 2018, 10:09:10 pmConcrete - dug up components, highly exothermic reactionSteel - dug up ore and fossil fuel, highly exothermic processingQuote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 27, 2018, 10:13:14 pmAgain, will degrade to heat, just a matter of time.Clearly non-starters

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:30:45 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 27, 2018, 10:15:24 pmA PV that's (connected to a circuit) generating 1kW has to be cooler than if left unconnected, right?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:34:35 pm
content: Nope, PV is inefficient, significant I^2R heating.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:35:13 pm
content: Overunity!if you remove energy @1kW there's 1kW less of heating at the PV, no?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:36:22 pm
content: Nope, just taken up in the poor efficiency of the panel!

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:44:08 pm
content: Ok, I like this, but it's too late. Tomorrow moregood night!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:46:06 pm
content: Good night, but please, no.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 11:12:46 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 27, 2018, 09:51:23 pmMeanwhile on another planet...

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 11:20:23 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 27, 2018, 10:09:10 pmComing soon! Company from Poland offers smokings for everyone! Poor penguins.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 12:04:01 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on January 27, 2018, 08:06:02 pmIt's true, for that price, you're paying for the brand, but they're not that bad quality.The person in that video seems pretty clueless about vacuum cleaners and talks far too much. I had to keep skipping past all his attempts at humour and talking nonsense. Cylinder vacuums normally don't have any carpet brush motor at all. At best, there's a wheel which moves the brush. Dyson has improved the design by adding one, even if it's only powered by an air motor, which would give more torque, when the head is pushed up against the carpet, as more air would flow through it. The upright model has a 230VDC electric motor to drive the brush. Adding a valve to limit the maximum vacuum is done to allow airflow through the motor, even if the tube is blocked, otherwise it will overheat.I am surprised it uses a Panasonic motor though. I thought the new models have a switched reluctance brushless motor. It's obviously not all models, possibly only the European ones.My mum has two Dyson vacuums: a portable, which ihas been very reliable and an upright one. The only problem she's had was the carpet brush motor failing in the upright model. She contacted Dyson and they sent a new carpet brush free of charge, even though the warranty period had long elapsed.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 12:09:06 am
content: I get the sense that there's a wide discrepancy between the European and American markets for vacuum cleaners. The canister vacuums I have used since the 1980s have all had an electrical wire inside the hose that mates with the carpet brush. It is used not only to turn the bristles but also for lighting, since you want to be able to see when you vacuum under furniture.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 12:20:42 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 28, 2018, 12:04:01 amYou don't know who AvE is?

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 03:09:16 am
content: We have a Dyson DC17 Animal and we like it. Just gave it a bit of a refurb, new belt and filters and disassembled and cleaned the vortex chamber to get the pet smell out as SWMBO is now using this for her small cleaning company. If I must admit, it has sat in the garage for a few years. It developed an issue that SWMBO wanted looked at and I procrastinated too much, so she tossed it into the garage and bought a replacement. I pulled it out when she said she wanted to buy a vacuum cleaner instead of using the customer's. $31 for 6 belts and a filter set and some of my time for cleaning against $179 for another vac. She's happy so I'm happy.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 03:26:05 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2018, 03:43:42 amI found a Dyson in a hard rubbish collection once and couldn;t resist the temptation so I brought it and the accessories home. The motor needed a new set of brushes which I was able to purchase from ebay quite cheaply and it has been going ever since ! Nothing has broken since and you get the odd blockage in the turbo head but you can easily take it apart and clean it. The trouble with the cheap imitation bagless vacs is they are not the same as the dyson as they still have a filter that gets clogged up by dust and debris. I think some of the cheaper dysons also have a filter like this as well.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 03:50:40 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on January 28, 2018, 03:26:05 amAll vacuums have (or should have) an outlet filter. You can't filter microscopic particles like fine dust or microbes cyclonically since they are lighter than air. If you can't see it, it means they've hidden it away so you can't clean or replace it.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 05:00:10 am
content: I have 2 Hoover upright vacuum cleaners, and a cylinder electrolux as well. Did not buy any of them, got them all as broken or thrown out and simply did filter changes and new belts on them, and new hoses as needed. As the uprights use a paper bag filter, and I got a pack or two with each of them I did not need to buy new filters either, but the generic ones are ultra cheap, and work well. the cylinder just has to clean the washable filters in there, and clean the dust out of the internal HEPA filter packs, along with minor repairs. Did buy a pack of the large paper filters that it uses, along with an universal cloth filter bag so that I can use it as a wet vacuum as well as dry.Then in the garage there are another 2 free vacuums, gotten as "not working" where they just needed the pleated filter after the cyclone cleaned, and the rest of the unit cleaned as well. They are the car interior vacuum cleaners, because they are small enough to get into the car easily. Funny thing is that in most vacuum cleaners the motor block is almost always one of 4 variants, and that they are available as spare parts from the appliance spares place for a lot cheaper than a new vacuum. Even more the power rating on the case has absolutely no relation to the motor power, they all are at around the 300-500VA level in the motor department, which you can see from the use of the thin cord on the vacuum.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 05:34:18 am
content: Back in 1985 we bought an Electrolux barrrel vacuum cleaner for $500 which was a fair bit in those days. After about 5 years the magic smoke escaped out of the motorised rotating brush thing on the sucky end and seeing a whole lot of smoke came out of the barrel part I took it apart to see what was wrong. Found it was okay, the power head was burnt out, not the main motor. The barrel assembly needed two large pop rivets and a triple jointed wrist to get it back together again. Took it to this crowdhttps://www.godfreys.com.au/to reassemble. Picked it up a week later and it never sounded the same as before. Six months later it quit completely so I opened it up again and it turned out they stole the good, hardly used motor out of my machine and put in a crap one with worn out non-replaceable bearings. Doubtless they would have sold my motor as a new one for someone else’s repair. Godfreys are a disreputable and dishonest company. Have nothing to do with them.https://www.godfreys.com.au/

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 12:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on January 28, 2018, 03:50:40 amYou are right. There are some extra fine particle filters that can be replaced if need be but they rarely get clogged up like those cheap arse 'bagless' vacs.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 03:03:43 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 28, 2018, 12:04:01 amPower fed down to the brush head has been quite common on expensive vacuum cleaners for decades, so it might not be AvE who is clueless here. He complains too much about using air motors for the brush head. Miele have used them for years, and they work well. Some people don't like the way the brush rotor stops when you block the air flow, but if there's no air flow there's no point in spinning the brush anyway.Quote from: Hero999 on January 28, 2018, 12:04:01 amThe problem is not that they use a Panasonic module, but that they use a rather low end one. Panasonic vacuum cleaners spread over a wide range of prices. This does not look the module from one of the better ones, which it should be in a $500 appliance.Quote from: Hero999 on January 28, 2018, 12:04:01 amThose expensive battery powered Dyson vacuum cleaners with "digtial" motors seem to have an appalling reliability record. Maybe using a cheap Panasonic module is actually a good thing.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 04:32:59 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on January 28, 2018, 03:03:43 pmThe part that tends to fail is (of course) the battery itself. I rebuilt one a few months back and I was surprised that they used really cheap 18650s - only 1.5Ah as compared to 2.2Ah for the replacements. (I actually added a 6S2P pack in parallel with the existing 6S1P pack.) It was one of the first ones so I think they purposely crippled it in order to sell an "upgraded" version a few years later.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 09:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 28, 2018, 04:32:59 pmPissed off owners I know, with a dead Dyson just outside warranty, seem to have no problem with the battery.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 09:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 28, 2018, 12:20:42 amNo. Any reason why I should? I don't watch this kind of thing very often.Quote from: coppice on January 28, 2018, 03:03:43 pmYou have a point. I'm not very familiar with cylinder vacuums, certainly not the expensive ones. My home is mostly carpeted and my parents' house is so we've always had upright vacuums..QuoteThe motor didn't look that bad. I've seen worse and I don't see the big deal about it lacking epoxy: most motors don't have it.Quote from: coppice on January 28, 2018, 09:01:53 pmAnd if they had any sense, they'd return it for a replacement or repair. Being outside of warranty means sod all, especially in the UK where consumer law states a product should last for a reasonable length of time, for its cost.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 10:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 28, 2018, 09:15:53 pmMost people don't live in the UK.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 12:14:05 am
content: Quote from: coppice on January 28, 2018, 10:36:11 pmIt's consumer law EU wide. not just in the UK. Exact local interpretation can vary. Despite all the flak it gets, the EU has its advantages.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 12:15:25 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 29, 2018, 12:14:05 amMost people don't live in the EU.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 12:25:17 am
content: Quote from: coppice on January 29, 2018, 12:15:25 amA very large portion of Dyson customers likely do, considering it's a luxury brand.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 12:28:06 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 29, 2018, 12:25:17 amDyson sell a LOT of stuff in Asia. Its a go to brand for people who want to show off that they can afford stuff, and care a lot less whether the stuff is any good.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 01:56:23 am
content: I live in Murica and I am not rich by any standard. My wife just wanted a nice vacuum and the Dyson fits the bill. She's happy, I'm happy.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 07:21:20 am
content: Dyson is very popular in the US too. We have two of them, one AC powered upright and one of those portable battery powered ones. Both have worked very well, best vacuum cleaners I've owned, never had a problem with either one. My mom has one of the portables too which has also held up well.If they do fail I think there's a reasonable chance I can repair it.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 08:48:24 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 28, 2018, 04:32:59 pmI think you'll find that super high discharge 18650 with a capacity > 1.5Ah are a "relatively" recent innovation. Certainly most of my tools upto a year or two ago all had 1.5Ah cells in them. Sure, my laptops have had >2Ah cells in them forever, but those cells don't do 20A without things getting funky. Power tool cells are a whole 'nother ball of wax.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 02:12:44 pm
content: Turns out the "claim" by TomTom that your device would receive "Lifetime updates" was based on a marketing w***er's definition of lifetime* compared to a normal person's.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/42859546Selected quote from article:A number of customers with TomTom sat-navs have been told that their devices will no longer receive map updates."Your maps will become out-of-date and as such navigation will be less accurate," the firm told customers."It has become clear that some of our older generation navigation devices do not have sufficient resources to run the newest maps and software."Some devices that were on sale in 2017 will stop being updated and the BBC has asked TomTom for comment.The firm has published a list of affected models online.List here:https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/obsolete-products/*Lifetime means the useful life of the device, i.e. the period of time TomTom supports your device with updates, services, content or accessories. A device will have reached the end of its life when none of these are available any more. You need a PC with an Internet Connection and a MyTomTom account to download new maps and updates. For more information, visit tomtom.com/lifetimeNot that what I see as an underhand move bothers me as I took my TomTom apart years ago as I now use GoogleMaps and HereMaps on Android but I could have sworn when reading the literature that came with my TomTom that lifetime implied several decades, rather than until the data format changed.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2018, 04:03:03 pm
content: Quote from: Avacee on January 29, 2018, 02:12:44 pmInteresting, thanks for sharing.I know several of the satnavs use embedded Linux under the hood and, as the kernel and device driver support wanes, I imagine it becomes quite difficult to keep the maintenance, especially if the newer maps require heaps more memory as the database keeps increasing.Regardless, each company defines "lifetime support" on their terms (even Fluke) and it may be probably part of that licensing agreement that nobody reads. I have a TomTom Via 125, which I suspect will be next in the chopping block as it already can't hold the complete North America maps due to the lack of flash memory, and trying to expand using a SD card makes it terribly unstable.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 02:16:51 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 28, 2018, 09:15:53 pmHe’s one of the most famous mechanical/electrical teardown youtubers. His humor, which at first sounds like an uneducated buffoon, is actually extremely deliberate, and it’s like family guy, where the humor doesn’t become apparent until you’ve watched a few episodes. Then you realize how brilliant it is!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 02:20:26 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 29, 2018, 12:25:17 amIn Canada it is sold in Walmart, the cheapest junk store.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 05:42:58 am
content: Walmart sells a huge variety of things, a lot of it is cheap junk but they sell some good stuff too. I'm not trying to defend Walmart or their business practices but the fact that they carry a particular product doesn't mean that product is junk.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 12:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: Avacee on January 29, 2018, 02:12:44 pmMy Garmin Nuvi is about 4 years old now. Just did an update earlier in the week. I've borrowed a TomTom, didn't really like it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 03:02:38 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 02, 2018, 02:20:26 amIf you're selling vacuum cleaners generally a few times more expensive than other typical vacuum cleaners it's a luxury product.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 03:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 27, 2018, 08:10:37 pmbollocks, Gasoline engine has always had far lower limits for NOx than diesels and gasoline engines run 3-way catalyst to reduce NOx which diesels can't. Diesel has higher energy content than gasoline per volume so the "higher fuel economy" isn't quite like what it seemsThe reason to focus on NOx and particulates is that they are dangerous now

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:17:23 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on February 02, 2018, 03:31:13 pm"It all boils down to too much focus on CO2 which lead to downsized turbo diesels emitting far more NOX and particles which lead to the bad air in Europe. CO2 is not a pollutant, however NOX and particles are very bad pollutants. Next in line to further decrease CO2 form cars come downsized turbo GDI (gas direct injection) engines and they emit much more ultrafine particles and NOX than regular natural aspirated engines with PFI (port fuel injection) and even more than some Euro6 diesels with particle filter"http://www.evo.co.uk/features/18753/is-engine-downsizing-finally-falling-out-of-fashion

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:20:42 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on February 02, 2018, 06:17:23 pmIt's a bit like when foods are fat free, but get stuffed full of sugar, or are sugar free and are full of fats and other stuff. Making it everything-free rarely happens. Well, I guess I could sell you some water and balloons.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 02, 2018, 05:42:58 amThat may be the case in the US. In Canada Walmart does not have same wide nomenclature of products.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 02, 2018, 06:28:37 pmI've not seen nomenclature used in that way. Do you mean something like "the reputation of having a broad assortment"?

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:14:13 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on February 02, 2018, 06:17:23 pmUltimately for any air breathing carnot cycle plant the trade off is between combustion temperature (More makes for better thermodynamic efficiency) and NOx generation (The hotter you burn the more you favour the creation of nitrogen oxides), where to target this point is a mixture of political and economic decision making. Diesel vs Petrol is a side issue, the real question is how hot do you allow people to run the hot side of the cycle?If the focus is on CO2 you burn really hot to obtain good thermodynamic efficiency, at the expense of NOx, if NOx is the focus you burn at low pressure and rather rich to get low peak temperatures and low efficiency (so more CO2) but less NOx generation.Regards, Dan.