Buying a Multimeter and Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Kaks
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 09:36:17 am
content: Hello Community!I'm starting a small electronic lab in my house for self-learning and make some small projects. I'm searching for a multimeter and a oscilloscope.Regarding the multimeter I have budget around 80$ and I came across this two multimeter's: UNI-T Profesional UT191T and Extech 430A.In the matter of Oscilloscopes I see the Rigol DS1202Z-E and the Siglent SDS1202X-E.I would like to know your opinion about the equipment, if there are better options and which ones should I choose.The more research I do the more difficult it is to choose and the more the value goes up! ahahahThank you all!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 10:26:44 am
content: Quote from: Kaks on April 15, 2020, 09:36:17 ama) That's a bad price range for multimeters. Meters in that range are neither one thing nor another. You should either go cheaper or go up to to the $150 price range where things start to get serious.b) You also need at least two meters.For that budget I'd get anAneng 870andaFluke 101. The Aneng as a good all-round, very accurate meter and the Fluke for poking at dangerous stuff.Edit: Having said that.... it looks like the price of the Fluke 101 has rocketed recently. When I got mine they wereunder $40withshipping.On the oscilloscope side you'll need to be a lot more specific about what you intend to do but in general I'd say to go for four channels, not two. Lack of channels isn't something that's easy to work around.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 10:37:05 am
content: I was recently advised here to buy an Analog Discovery 2.I have not received it yet but it seems to be a very good choice when you have nothing and want to start a small lab.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 10:52:18 am
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on April 15, 2020, 10:37:05 amYep. It's not the best oscilloscope in the world but it's an awesome little device for experimenting and learning. The secret is in the software that goes with it.The is Dave looking at an earlier model:

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 10:58:32 am
content: As far as meters go, take a look at Brymen.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 11:23:08 am
content: I would suggest you first sit down and think hard about what kind of stuff you'll be working on and what functions you'll need. Otherwise you'll just get recommendations that are 90% personal opinion and personal bias which may be totally irrelevant to you.You can get a perfectly fine and functional multimeter for $80, depending on what you'll need it for. I have an $80 meter that measures current (up to 10 amps), volts, resistance, temperature, capacitance, diodes, frequency, etc. There's a bunch of different brands out there, and many/most are fine.As far as scopes, it's guaranteed you'll get pages and pages of personal bias unless you, again, sit down and try to make a list of stuff you might want to work on. Audio? Digital communications? Arduino robotics stuff? Power stuff? Computer stuff?There is no right answer for any of this. It depends on what you want. And I'd also suggest you take a look at some devices and their spec sheets to see what's out there and see if anything piques your interest.As an example, recently I was trying to get a better understanding of thermals of different devices and what the actual temperatures are relative to real world temperatures, and stuff like how many degrees temperature rise you get per watt. Luckily my meter comes with a very nice thermocouple that I just touch to the device and I can make a chart of degrees C per watt.Cool.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 01:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 15, 2020, 11:23:08 amI have a $25 multimeter that does all that.Quote from: engrguy42 on April 15, 2020, 11:23:08 amSo does mine.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 01:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 15, 2020, 01:41:27 pmYeah, I probably overpaid for the $80 one. I've got my eye on a $40 one (AstroAI) that has almost identical features and it seems to be very popular on Amazon. I just don't want new folks to get the impression you need to spend hundreds of $$ for a basic multimeter with a lot of functionality.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 03:12:28 am
content: Quote from: Kaks on April 15, 2020, 09:36:17 amThe UNI-T UT191T uA/mA jack is shared with the V and everything else jack; you do not want that. UNI-T UT139C would probably be a better choice for you, and it is cheaper.An unlocked Rigol DS1054Z will give you 4 channels and 100 MHz, and it is also probably cheaper than the Rigol DS1202Z-E.

author: stafil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 09:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 15, 2020, 01:52:00 pmI would suggest UNI-T instead of AstroAI.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 03:16:41 am
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 15, 2020, 01:52:00 pmProving exactly nothing.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 10:00:45 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 17, 2020, 03:16:41 amWell, for some of us over 1,800 positive ratings holds a bit more weight than one person on some hobbyist tech forum saying "Well, I recommend X because I said so".

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 10:10:43 am
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 17, 2020, 10:00:45 amCall me when there's been a teardown, etc., on here.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 11:42:29 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 17, 2020, 10:10:43 amBut you don't know anything Fungus !Everyone knows on Amazon that to work safely in your electronic lab, you need a "Astro" DMM and a 600W ATX power supply

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 11:51:24 am
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on April 17, 2020, 11:42:29 amSo can you provide any actual facts and data, or just attacks?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:18:47 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 17, 2020, 11:51:24 amBurden of proof is on you, I'm afraid. We're not the ones trying to sell a new brand of meter.Edit: Amazon do their own brand of meters, too:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/amazon-do-multimeters-now/

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on April 17, 2020, 11:42:29 amLighten up guys, I believe that jemangedeslolos is joking with you.He of course forgot to say that all mains-powered equipment should have the earth pin removed from the plug to prevent pesky earth loops /s

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 17, 2020, 11:51:24 amAnd so can you ?Why do you need to give the worst advice possible to people who just want to equip themselves properly and have enough budget for that ?A friend of mine who tinkers a lot almost lost an eye because of a reverse polarity on the input of a small SMD L7805 powered by lead acid battery.The chip explosed and flew right in its head. A 500-600W AXT can deliver 45+A on the 12V rail so it could have been the same.Kaks has 80$ for a proper DMM, why the hell do you feel the need to refer him to a not so cheap noname DMM.with 80$, He can have a serious brand multimeter with the right protections if he want to probe main voltage some day.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 17, 2020, 12:18:47 pmHold on cowboy. I don't give a damn what meter people use. I merely mentioned I'm considering it, and you jumped all over me for daring to consider 1,800 positive Amazon responses as worthy of consideration, while providing no data whatsoever to support that belief.Unlike others here, I'm not one of those "oh, I like this, or I bought this, therefore everyone has to like it and buy it and think it's awesome". I don't care. It's a freakin' meter. And if anyone has any data to support that the AstroAI TRMS6000 (priced at $40, not $80) meter is crap, I'm glad to hear it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 17, 2020, 12:25:57 pmAll I said was itprovesnothing.This has a lot of positive reviews, too:https://www.amazon.com/DT830B-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Multimeter/dp/B005KGCI0Y/Edit:This guyisn't into test gear but he loves to take down Amazon-recommended locks:eg.This padlockhas 2480 ratings and is an "Amazon Choice"So yeah, I'm skeptical of Amazon reviews.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 02:07:47 pm
content: Are you guys really fighting over a US $40 DMM?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 02:44:35 pm
content: @Kaks, as others have hinted, there are plenty of options for multimeters below $80. The safest options are the Fluke 101 (although it is too basic) or the much more featured Uni-T UT139C - many reviews are available on Youtube, including minehere(shameless plug).For low-power electronics only (but staying away from distribution panels, solar panels, etc.) both the Aneng AN870 or Richmeters RM219 (both are the same meter) are good cheap options (about $30). If you want a bit more features, the UT61E is a bit better choice as it features better bandwith (good for measuring voltages in audio circuits), buttery smooth bargraph (for seeing voltage swings and trends), basic data logging (if measuring long variations), etc. Both multimeters have several reviews on the internet, and I did a review of the UT61Ehere.As for the oscilloscope, two channels are great if you are working with analog circuits (audio, radio, etc.) and the models you are looking for have extra analog bandwidth when compared to the similarly priced four channel version. If you need to look at digital serial communications, the four channel version DS1054Z has an edge as it is better suited to perform protocol decoding directly on the oscilloscope, although with a lower bandwidth at the same price range.Keep in mind that, if you are inclined to get the two channel version, you can easily buy a cheap logic analyzer ($10, $15?) with protocol decoding and fulfill this need.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 03:32:34 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 17, 2020, 02:44:35 pmFor $80 you're not going to get a "good" multimeter so it's better for a beginner to get two. It's more useful, you can contrast the readings against each other, you'll learn enough to make a good decision if/when you decide go to buy a proper meter.If you're thinking about poking pieces of metal into a mains socket then one of those should probably be a Fluke 101. The other one? You can get a very capable meter (as far as features and accuracy go) for about $30. I own a couple of them, I mentioned the one that's suffered the most abuse and not had any problems at all over the three years I've owned it. I've had other ones that developed problems after a single trip out in my briefcase.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 04:05:47 pm
content: The UT191T is a new meter by UNI-T.The meter is safe up to CAT III 600V. It has HRC 600V fuses and has been tested by TUV/GS.The specs are pretty good for a cheap meter.The only concern is the low bandwidth on AC voltage and current, limited to 400Hz.It has a LoZ and LPF functions.You could do a lot worse at that price range.It should cover most of your requirements as a beginner with electronics.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 04:12:52 pm
content: @Wytnucls, the UT191T really seems interesting but, with μA/mA inputs in the same jack as V, I would rather stay away from it as a beginner. To me the UT139C (also third party tested) seems a better option.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 04:20:54 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 17, 2020, 04:12:52 pmI'd also like to know what things like this mean:

author: xani
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 04:27:36 pm
content: Quote from: Kaks on April 15, 2020, 09:36:17 amThose are 200MHz 2 channel scopes. Will you be doing RF projects at that range ?If you are not planning to, I'd highly recommend picking the equivalent 4 chan 50/100MHz models. Aside from just "can see twice as many signals at once", 4 channels allow you to just directly connect to SPI bus and use serial decode.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 04:30:39 pm
content: In industry, 30 volts is generally considered to be a conservative threshold value for dangerous voltage. The cautious person should regard any voltage above 30 volts as threatening, not relying on normal body resistance for protection against shock.

author: electricMN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 05:09:58 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 17, 2020, 03:32:34 pmThis is good advice. I bought a Fluke 101 just for probing mains voltage. It's a hell of a deal for less than $50. I also have two Brymen multimeters for more features and accuracy.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 05:14:26 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 17, 2020, 04:12:52 pmThe 139C would also be a good choice, if the bargraph is not required.Mixed inputs is not ideal, but at least the mA fuse is easily accessible.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 09:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 15, 2020, 10:26:44 amI never saw the 101 under $40 when I actually started looking at them. Amazon has them for $47 USD, same price as I paid last year.Quote from: electricMN on April 17, 2020, 05:09:58 pmI bought my 101 for a different reason. I needed accurate low Ohm readings in a small package for my work toolbag. My 101 is dead on with my DMM Check +. I don't need the current measurement that it doesn't have for work, resistance and maybe mains check. I have a Fluke 27F/M for that. I even have a couple of ANENG meters and they seem to handle mains probing fine, again the 27F/M normally gets that job.My beef with cheap meters is the crappy leads that come with them, even the 101. I tossed the OEM leads and am using some Brymen gold plated leads, they perform much better. They give me the dead on measurement with the DMM Check+, the OEM didn't. I have multiple pairs of them and like them quite a bit. If anyone wants to take a peek at them, here is the link:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Silicone-Gold-Plated-Test-Leads-Probes-for-Multimeters-CAT-IV-1000V/171162377470?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 10:44:30 pm
content: fwiw I have a Fluke 101 with standard leads and the Brymen gold plated leads.The Brymens can get crusty too, though it may take longer.You can't see the crust, but it won't fool the Continuity mode or buzzer when you short the leads and slide up/down probe to probe.Once probe tips and meter sockets are cleaned, there is no 'Ohm-ic' difference afaict between the Fluke or Brymen leads,besides aesthetics and handling stiffness.Perhaps a different story if both were tested with 10 amps continuous and brief bursts of 15 and 20 ampsand maybe some Mr. Smith styled zappage tooand see if any strands or internal lead to probe joins compromisedfwiw Fluke 101 has its standard leads back in service,and the Brymen leads promoted to a TLC'd Fluke 8060A that came with no leads-----------------------Will any of these member recommended multimeter cheapies (or big dollar favorites) survive 120 and 240 AC volts in a professional 'oops' can't happen situation,or sitting duck 'first meter newb' BANG! moment,in all the modes, and in Auto and Manual ranges, including -Diode-as well as hooked up to 120 and 240 AC volts with the meter switched from OFF and run through all the modes.How well will they survive and will the meter internals be weakened or compromised,so the next 'won't happen again' blunder may not be pretty on the CATxx? confident operatorLet's leave out 440v AC snafus, and the usual current measurement plug in stuff ups for now,just the simple stuff above

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 11:07:30 pm
content: Can I say Aneng 8008 without getting flamed? I own 2!

author: electricMN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 11:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on April 17, 2020, 09:19:20 pmI agree, the leads that came with the 101 are pretty stiff and I replaced them with some gold plated ProbeMaster leads.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 11:33:07 pm
content: Actually, I bought some fancy gold-plated leads to go with my Aneng 8008, it's a great little meter but the leads cost as much as the meter.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 12:49:44 am
content: Check the 101 at $37 yankeebucks with free shipping to US from our South Korean friends:eBay auction: #352851361474.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 12:54:59 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 17, 2020, 10:44:30 pmThe UT139C survived Mr Smith's tests quite well (up to 6kV IIRC), although I don't recall any tests with multiple cycles (=outlet) being applied to its voltage terminals, which is a different ballgame.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 05:22:03 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on April 17, 2020, 11:07:30 pmNo, you would have been ok with just one, so get that fire extinguisher prepped mateor one of the Anengs needs to get binned asap, or donated to a local electronics hobbyistor handball it to a DIY death wish neighbor you won't miss too much

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 08:50:04 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 18, 2020, 05:22:03 amLOL, maybe I've got double vision after 1 too many tinnies?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 09:32:06 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on April 17, 2020, 11:07:30 pmI own one as well but I really, really prefer my Aneng 860B+ for some reason. It's just nicer to use.

author: myf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 11:15:02 am
content: Hello,In this price range, I am very satisfied with a ut-61 because I can connect it to a PC via USB cable for data recording.(ut-61e + usb cable + pocket) costs 48eur + 8eur + 7eur = 63eur.This box is double : a part is not so small for cables and alligator clips, and the usual part for DMMs of this size.It seems to be the best value for money of digital multimeters with a USB cable.

author: aussie_laser_dude
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 11:48:03 am
content: ^^ I assume you've watched Dave's vid.I decided to buy a similar Rigol, it was ok (bit laggy, cheap digital scopes tend to be unresponsive in my experience) then it died and is sitting dead in the corner of my lab. Fortunately I had followed Dave's advice in linked video and bought an old 150MHz analogue scope for an absolute bargain price! Best decision ever! So just thought I'd throw that out there in case you hadn't considered it, 2nd hand analogue scopes are pretty dam good for performance / price, sometimes you get them for free!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 11:57:43 am
content: Quote from: aussie_laser_dude on April 18, 2020, 11:48:03 amThat was a loooong time ago. Have you seen the followup where he says that's no longer true?(You know, after we got the $350 4-channel DSOs...?)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 04:25:31 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 18, 2020, 09:32:06 amAlthough I don't have an AN8008, I have a RM102Pro (same mechanical and physical construction) and found out that it is way too easy to leave the rotary switch between two ranges, which confused me at times. And no, I wasn't trying to get it wrong on purpose - the switch even felt like it had a detent at those intermediate positions (maybe an artifact of the mechanical design or a mildly defective unit? I can't tell for sure).

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 10:08:35 pm
content: Okay, so I'm still trying to decide on a second multimeter. Folks here seem to like Uni-T meters. I stumbled on one of Dave's videos that's titled "...Uni-T meters suck" or something like that. And seems like many of the comments were people peeing in their pants and turning purple cuz he criticized their meter."fail...pissant...heap of junk...garbage....crappy...disgusting....pathetic..."So anyway the Uni-T UT139C costs around $53. And it only has a CAT III rating of 600V. Others like the AstroAI and Kaiweets also have a CAT II rating of 1000V (for those who care). And the AstroAI costs only $36. Both are true RMS, autoranging, ceramic fuses, blah blah blah.There's also a very manly-looking Kaiweets meter for about $36 that also has my eye.Anyway, at this point it seems elementary since if you order on Amazon today it'll be another month before you see it. WTF? That's not right.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 10:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 18, 2020, 10:08:35 pmYou can get a Uni-T UT139C for as low as US$ 31.99 on eBay, from a seller that I bought from a few times (and that I would consider reliable).Several Uni-T DMM (and other equipment) are very affordable, I suppose this is why it is a popular brand.Often, the CAT rating from the Chinese DMM are fake.But there are better products available; Brymen makes excellent DMM. I have three Brymen DMM; BM319, BM257s and the EEVBlog BM235.Brymen DMM are top shelf quality. You can easily get the EEVBlog BM235 from Dave's storehttps://www.eevblog.com/product/bm235-multimeter/

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 10:54:01 pm
content: I'm kinda surprised at why folks seem so excited about Uni-T, especially after Dave ripped them a new whatever. Yeah, that was like 5 years ago. Have they changed or something? Did Dave change his mind?I'm also surprised that they (and others?) don't have UL certification. I kinda assumed that to be sold in US it was a requirement. Geez. So yeah, if they haven't gone thru UL you can't trust any of those safety ratings. Although I'm not sure I give a rip about stuff like that since I typically don't use my meters for HV stuff.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 01:12:15 am
content: Quote from: aussie_laser_dude on April 18, 2020, 11:48:03 amDJ's 'ancient advice' considered by some still holds todayand IMHO+EMMV, nothing beats playing with a fully working analogue scope as a EE newb or hobbyist/repairer to get really familiar with oscilloscopes -FAST-Then jumping on to a fully working non-buggy (crossed fingers..) DSO and stuffing around with the menus and multiple channel shared controlsforgetting what the intention wasis a lot more easier and (that word again)'intuitive'fwiw for anything lower frequency based I just power up a 15mhz CRT beater scope, plug in, tweak up for a solid triggered display and get it doneThe higher BW CRTs and DSOs get called in for anything else, usually fast captures and intermittent dramasor for a tech play, and see if I can remember what control does what, why I would need it,and why the traces disappeared due to some obscure delayed dual sweep mode with external trigger thingieI do like the AUTOlife saverbutton on the DSO when things get outta control,and there's always the power switch to the rescue on a full lock up

author: M0HZH
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 01:42:00 am
content: Not sure why people are worried about CAT III ratings on multimeters meant to be used in an electronics lab.CAT III defines safety standards for equipment designed to work on building mains wiring (between the fuse box and the wall socket) and is mostly relevant for electricians. In a lab you are working on what is considered a CAT I circuit (low voltage / behind transformers & protection) and possibly probing a CAT II circuit (the mains power coming out of the socket) once in a while.As for a meter in the price range, the UNI-T UT61E has probably the best mix of features & accuracy for an entry-level home lab. But yes, you will need a second one as well.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:33:21 am
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 18, 2020, 10:54:01 pmI don't think there's many fans on EEVBLOG. Maybe in the world outside they are, but if so it's mostly because they're cheap.The main problem is that 50% of their meters were garbage (see Dave's video for one) and the the other 50% you never knew what you were going to get. The UT-61E (for example) comes in a few variants, some of them were OK, a lot of them had most of the safety components missing to save on costs. Buying a UT61E has always been a crap shoot, you simply don't know what you'll get.As far as I Know the 139C is a bit more consistent about what components are inside, but ... I'd rather buy from a brand where I know for sure.Quote from: SkyMaster on April 18, 2020, 10:26:00 pmWhich is fine when youknowthey're fake and use them accordingly.Uni-T managed to manufacture a lot of meters whereyou don't know(!)Why would you pay more than an Aneng to take a chance?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:38:20 am
content: Quote from: M0HZH on April 19, 2020, 01:42:00 amBecause:a) "Accidents happen", andanythinginductive (solenoids, motors, etc) can output huge voltage spikes.b) If you're paying more than about $30 for a meter you want to know if the CAT rating is genuine or not.c) Even in an electronics lab you sometimes might want to look at mains (power supplies, etc).d) Children or idiots might "borrow" it when you're not looking.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:41:51 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 19, 2020, 01:12:15 amIf you can get a working one for $50, then, sure...If you're paying anything close to DSO prices? Not so much. As soon as you get a DSO the CRO will start gathering dust.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:36:50 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 19, 2020, 01:12:15 amNo, it does't. Not only because the very person that back then gave that advice later said that this advice is now obsolete.It's a bit like recommending lobotomies because it was a recommended procedure back in the '50s.QuoteIt's a bit silly to tell a beginner to learn the handling of an obsolete piece of kit which teaches techniques that often are ineffective or even counter-productive with modern kit. Unless he wants to start a collection of vintage test gear or become a curator of a test equipment museum, it makes much more sense to start with a piece of equipment that is actually still made.Besides the fact that literally every analog scope that is out there has long passed the zenith of its service life and is going to fail sooner rather than later, turning it into a project of its own. Not to forget that there often are unobtainium parts in vintage instruments.When Dave made that video back then, he recommended analog scopes as starter scopes not because they are superior to DSOs (they aren't) but simply because back then even cheap entry level DSOs were still awfully expensive (and the only used DSOs that were somewhat affordable were very early ones which came with lots of limitations, like very low sample rates), so at that time for hobbyists it made sense to buy an old analog scope.But that is no longer the case. Since then entry-level DSO prices have dropped dramatically ($350 or so already buys you a brand new DSO which is not a toy), and because of that 2nd hand prices for older but still useful DSOs like the venerable HP 54645A/D have also dropped like a rock, meaning you can often find working ones for below $150.I appreciate that some people just love vintage test gear, but the nostalgia is really going to far when it means giving bad advice to a beginner looking for help.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:42:09 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 19, 2020, 07:33:21 amThat's my sentiment too; the AN8008s I have are used for low voltage (24V max) and current (500 mA max) only. They have limitations but one cost me $20 and the other $6.97 shipped from China (after a month of Sundays).The OP might consider starting with an AN8008 and then waiting for better times to get something like a 'used' Keysight meter from eBay - my favorite is the U1242C that I got for $200 and it came with the IR-USB cable.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 10:16:54 am
content: What I find unfortunate is something I've noticed over and over and over for many years, in just about every internet tech community (PC's, electronics, etc.), and it's people taking their equipment personally. They buy a piece of equipment, and from then on if anyone dares to criticize it or the manufacturer they take it personally and get upset. And invariably they'll scramble to find the most obtuse and irrelevant factoids to support their position that what they chose is perfect and everything else is rubbish. "Yeah, but what if the zombie apocalypse happens and you need something heavy to throw at a zombie?? You really need a heavy meter".Geez people, it's a freakin' meter. Or scope. Or computer. Or whatever. Get real. Why does anyone care what other people buy???Do people take their choice of screwdriver personally? I hope not. Why do they take other tools so personally?Different people have different needs. But most people are unwilling to comprehend that people are different. "Oh, well I need X, so everyone on the planet also needs X and has to think it's awesome or it hurts my feelings".Ridiculous. There are 126 reasons that a particular person may or may not care whether their meter is actually CAT II or II or IV compliant, or anything else. Finding one of those reasons and proclaiming it's the final truth is ludicrous. Deciding that everyone must have a particular scope solely because YOU think it's a nice scope is rubbish.What's important are facts. Providing facts and data allows people to decide for themselves, depending on their own needs. Saying stuff like "hey, I tested this meter that proclaims to be CAT III compliant and it actually is" AND providing data is useful. Saying stuff like "it's junk" isn't. But unfortunately, facts aren't entertainment.Anyway, I know people are people and they ain't gonna change, but geez, it gets so tiring.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 10:32:47 am
content: Analogue CRTs FOREVER !Keep those babies rockin as long as you can, and no it won't affect DSO sales (too much)Regarding false, exaggerated or straight up bs based CAT sticker claims, is 'fake' the appropriate term?A fake handbag can still function properly, as can decorative fake jewellery, fake watches etcBut when it comes to the issue of CAT safety ratings that aren't there to keep the newb or oopsie pro's hand and eyes protected from popping on a fault or idiot hook up moment,how about dropping the Fake word and call it what it really is when they lie and cheat about CAT ratings:deceptive, misleading, dangerous, not true, LIES, ALL LIES!!!

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 11:05:31 am
content: My $6.97 Aneng 8008 does what I expect of it and the lies* are nicely printed on it.My $1,000 Keysight 34461A does what I expect of it and all the truths are nicely printed on it.*Maybe they aren't lies but alternate facts?I wonder if I can change my handle to Kellyanne?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 11:08:39 am
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 19, 2020, 10:16:54 amHuh? People come here andask for buying advice.Quote from: engrguy42 on April 19, 2020, 10:16:54 amOooooo boy.https://www.google.com/search?q=screwdriver+review

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 11:14:01 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on April 19, 2020, 11:05:31 amIt all depends on how you interpret the front panels: If you look carefully it's usually clear that the rating only applies to a particular input socket. They might survive a transient if the selector is on the volts range.(of course arealCAT rating applies to all possible combinations of sockets/ranges, but...)

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 11:18:31 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 19, 2020, 11:14:01 amI have 3 cats, so surely that means I can print Cat III on all my designs?(sorry I'm feeling a bit trolley this morning)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:04:21 pm
content: The newer UT139S is also available with the addition of LoZ/LPF, a better screen and a bargraph.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 11:35:13 pm
content: I eagerly await someone to give a pair of newer UT139S, with batch/serial numbers _miles_ apart,a good hammering and zappage, under real world ignorance, neglect, idiot DIYerand 'optimistic CAT label faith' conditionsfwiw I'm no UT serial basher for the sake of it, and own some ok UT gear for occasional use due to features and price pointversus Fluke and other brands that are wayyy beyond the budget,just for those few features that don't need real CAT performance, and or the operator better be on the ball and no stuff ups!!!But no trust on the CAT ratings of any 'affordable' meter till a few have been trashed, and the prodding operator/s unscathedAFAIK the Fluke 101 is still holding the lead in the Safer n Cheap CAT race