A few asking about Metcal MX series - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 12:56:17 pm
content: Hello everyoneThis is my first post on EEVblog, so I apologize in advance if I make any mistakes.I’m looking to buy a Metcal MX-series soldering station, but I have a few questions...I found the new MX-500 (MX-500AV) on Mouser, and the price is the same as on Metcal’s official store. But then I saw thishttps://a.co/d/ijMtF8won Amazon... The MX-5200 is even discounted and priced a little lower than the MX-500!?!? I haven’t found any information about Metcal having an official store on Amazon, so I’m wondering if it’s safe to purchase this unit from there?I’ve also emailed Metcal to check, but I haven’t received a reply yet.The other issue is that there’s no actual ground wiring in my apartment building. The ground is connected to the neutral wire in the switchboard, but I heared that we don’t have true grounding in the apartment (and we only have live and neutral in the outlets).If I connect the ground wire from the MX series to the neutral or to a large metal surface like a window frame that’s installed on the building wall, will the grounding protection allow the iron to heat up? From the SDG channel, I still don’t clearly understand how grounding protection works. Does it try to detect a certain resistance or something?Could anyone give me some more hints or information? Thank you very much!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 09:24:08 pm
content: Yes that amazon price is real, shipped and sold by amazon, safe. Plus the $63 import fees. Mouser and other distributors are overpriced when it comes to test equipment or soldering equipment.Don't bother wasting your time emailing metcal, IMO.For the earth detection, my guess is its checking for a connection from earth to neutral. We discussed a bit here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/oki-(metcal)-mx-5000-off-grid/I'm surprised you don't have access to cheap surplus soldering equipment in Taiwan, is no one selling used gear locally? Its quite a lot of money to drop on an iron.

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:52:07 pm
content: Thank you thm_w!!I don't have the experience buying anything from amazon. And what I'm worried is the price has a huge discount from 900+USD to 600+USD, I wish I could get the brand new product distributed from Metcal directly (Or official distributor, not the third party stores) . Yes, there're still many different choices of soldering irons I could get in Taiwan. But,I am interested in these RF class E type induction heating irons. Now I have a AC powered goot TQ-95 for personal using, and using hakko T-12 series from work.And for the earth detction. As I know, the power company grounded the neutral to earth before go into building. But our apartment don't have that kind of independent, like long copper rod in earth ground or something similar. The water pipe maybe is, but too far away to my workspace-room. So, I know that is not safe to connect the gnd to neutral.. But maybe it could still let metcal works?cheers!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 11:09:32 pm
content: Yeah as you said if the ground is connected to neutral coming into the building, it should work OK.Have you looked at any of the stuff here?https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22432275278060https://www.ruten.com.tw/item/show?22434401481643But you'd need handpiece and stand as well.Don't forget some tips from amazon if you do get from there:https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltronics-M7CP200-Chisel-interchangeable-STTC-136P/dp/B00NS4Q79S/

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 11:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: NyaaX_X on September 10, 2024, 10:52:07 pmwow. that's something you don't hear often..If you are just using it for yourself, used tips from ebay usually (but not always) have a lot of life left in them. Companies preventatively replace them based on how much total time they have been in use even if they are still working.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 12:49:33 am
content: Amazon has no major distribution presence in Taiwan. But somehow they offer free shipping still.Its not really worth getting used tips when you can get new thermaltronics for ~$17.But you might get lucky and find something locally.

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 01:27:20 am
content: Well.. I would like to buy the brand new one. Not used or repaired.So the ruten old MX series will not in my cart. Sorry and thank you~If I cannot make sure the cheaper one on amazon is the official one. That maybe I will get the MX-500 on mouser. Because, I could find mouser and element 14 are the distributor to taiwan region (official website). Amazon export sales LLC seems not give me more confidence. Emm. Maybe I am foolish on this. To abondon the cheap MX-5200...And for if I connect that to neutral..Maybe if the current leakaging happen, the gnd part will let me expose from few volts and the induction noise/ESD protection will not take action to the soldered circuit.. just like now my goot TQ-95, no ESD protection.This product really get me lot of risks if I buy it. But if there is a huge chance that it could work for me. I am asking and checking.

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 03:01:30 am
content: Quote from: NyaaX_X on September 11, 2024, 01:27:20 amA while back I ordered some Metcal tips for my PS-900 from amazon. Despite being in what appeared to be official Metcal packaging and having Metcal part numbers on the tips themselves, they did not function correctly. I returned them as defective/counterfeit. The listing was quickly removed...

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 03:10:06 am
content: That is... really sad. I am also checking this issue with the sales manager. He replied me for something and I am keep asking some other details.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 11:55:45 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on September 10, 2024, 11:16:38 pmSame here. I've never bought anything from Amazon and I'm not planning to...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 08:58:36 pm
content: Quote from: NyaaX_X on September 11, 2024, 01:27:20 amYes as I said very clearly, it is official. Shipped and sold by amazon.If it doesn't work, isn't genuine, or arrives damaged, then you return it. Metcal should pack it decently I would expect.You can see most people here have no problems:https://www.reddit.com/r/taiwan/comments/n5b0m4/free_shipping_from_amazon_to_taiwan_the_catch/

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2024, 02:52:17 am
content: Thank you everyone for the advices!I had contacted the local agent for more details. And they could also give me some discount and technical supports. So, I will keep touching with them for this. Maybe I will need Thermaltronics tips on amazon in the future, after observe the life time of official tips.And the agent says that. They have customers that without ground wire in their building. And that would need some hacks to power cable~Cheers!

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 12:11:46 pm
content: Hello everyone~So, I received my station MX-5211, FW 1.37.But here is a question. I found that the dual output function only can be chosen when the left output have a loading.That means if I only connect the hand piece + soldering tips on the right hand side output. I only can switch to one output (left: open, right: ready, but not the same time dual output).Is that working correctly?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 10:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: NyaaX_X on September 24, 2024, 12:11:46 pmYou can't have an output on if nothing is connected, there would be RF reflected power damaging the device. It should give you "Open Error" and shut the output off.So it makes no sense to use the dual output mode with one side disconnected (even if it lets you do that).I'll check my MX5200 later but I'm sure it would behave similarly.

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 01:34:34 am
content: Yes,So, here is my case.If I only apply soldering tip at left output channel.It can change left output (ready), right output (open), and dual output (for seconds, display open),,,If I only apply soldering tip at right output channel.It can only change to left output (open), right output (ready). There are no dual output mode.The class E amplifier seems need a proper tuned load, and LC impedance. Or the switching will loss their efficiency. And sometimes some loading as you said, the Vds will bounce to very high peak. (I read that metcal use a 500V MOSFET to handle this temporary high peak then switch off power for the open channel.)And I am so unlucky this time shopping... My station LCD dsiplay the " cal comm rtc reset.." page randomly when I turn on the switch (I did not push the small button). Tbe output channel won't error switching during it heating up iron. So, I guess the small button were not stucking.Since, I don't have properly grounding in my house. So, I short the neutral and ground with a jump wire. I have no idea if this will lead to that randomly display issue... Like the floating voltage on netural (power) creep into the logic gnd.:'(

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 09:27:14 pm
content: So I guess your building did not have neutral and earth connected then as mentioned above, you tested first without it right?You have to be very careful if you are shorting N + G locally.. so that only the iron has these two connected, and not any other devices. I assume you modified a power cable to do this.As you said, service menu is entered by pressing the front button and powering on:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/metcal-mx-5200-and-mx-5000-firmware-and-data-eeprom-information/So might be noise, if you want find a location with known good earth and test the station there as a comparison.

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 08:29:05 am
content: Yeah, I am guessing of this,If the grounding is not quite well in my house, and let the power voltage rushed into grounding circuit (like~ 2~3V AC noise). Perhaps that would pre-charged up few volts at the button detection circuit. (I have no idea Maybe there is a common pull down resistor//capacitor design to avoid jitter at there?) Then, before the control circuit been powered up and initialized. The error voltage will keep floating there and make MCU think the button is pulling up it to high-level, then lead to this issue?Is that possible?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 08:38:55 am
content: There is also the Thermaltronics TMT-9000S which is I believe just Thermaltronics licensing the metcal technology, but is cheaper.Same tips work on both TMT-9000S and the Metcals.Note that while they have two soldering iron ports, you cannot use them both at once, they are switchable.The Thermaltronics has a switch on the front, I'm not sure how the metcal switches between them.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 08:57:12 am
content: Quote from: Psi on September 26, 2024, 08:38:55 amThermaltronics are some ex-Metcal people who started up when Metcal's main patent expired. I prefer their tips to Metcal's due to better geometry, though they don't have the same warranty - Metcal guarantee the heater for the life of the plating, though it can take a bit of persistance to get replacements.

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 09:02:57 am
content: I think metcal use logic circuit to change which one relay to swop the output.Thermaltronics seems to use a physical button to switch left or right output (with relay or no?).I check with the distributor and it is the same result as mine.So, now the big issue is that error appearing page... I think I will try to find a well grounded building for testing it. And also contact my distributor for more checking.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 10:54:45 am
content: Quote from: NyaaX_X on September 26, 2024, 09:02:57 amCan the metcal detect when you lift the non active iron from its holder and switch to it? Because that would be awesome if so.The fact you have to use the switch on the Thermaltronics is kinda annoying.(There's no relay click on the Thermaltronics, i thinks its switching the RF output directly)

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 11:13:13 am
content: No, you need to switch the output manually.And for MX series, only MX-5200 with the dual output mode (MX-5000 I am not sure seems not, MX-500 only one output by one),The most approaching feature is switching to dual output and leave two of hand pieces in the iron stand for each~5W power(?).For which one you pick up, it leave the magnet pillow and wake up for you.More about the error page. Now I sperate the neutral and gnd. Only connect the gnd to stainless steel windows frame as a fake GND. The station did not give me a GND fault and working happily.I am keep observing if the issue been solved? Cause the fake GND may get lower risk to be bothered like weak grounded neutral wire.. Or not?Anyway, if somebody know something else about my error page issue. Please give me some hint...:'(

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 08:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: NyaaX_X on September 26, 2024, 11:13:13 amIf the window frame is somewhere connected back to earth then thats fine (maybe thats why its working). If its floating and insulated with wood, its probably not great to use.Sometimes people use metal plumbing pipes, since those are conductive and often go back underground, making an earth connection.Out of curiosity did you measure the AC voltage from N to G in your house?

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 01:20:28 am
content: Sorry, it was fine for a while before I took a shower (I did not cut off the outlet power but turned off the metcal power). It jump out again...For the voltage, there are several case. I use a outlet with independent swtich. And always plug in the power cable. And the GND is not control by any switch, but always connect to frames.(1) Outlet off and metcal off, Vgnd is 0.35Vac to Neutral.(2) Outlet on and metcal off, Vgnd is 0.34Vac to Neutral.(3) Outlet on and metcal on, Vgnd is 0.37Vac to Neutral.(4) Outlet on and metcal off, no GND connectted to plug. Vgnd is 58Vac to Neutral. (Floating)I notice the Vgnd to N sometimes go up to even 2 times as worst(?) case. But there is chance I get that cal, comm,...page just after I turn on the outlet and turn on the metcal right away.Now I even wish the problem is pn this station. That because there are not many setting I could change but the earth grounding. If this not ideally issue is still there. I won't get any of correctly response.cheers,

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 08:02:58 am
content: Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I checked the Thermaltronics TMT-9000S is 40W so more likely equivalent to Metcals older 5000 and newer 500 series not the 5200 which in my understanding is up to 80W shared so has a higher power availability especially just running single channel.

author: NyaaX_X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 12:04:05 pm
content: I am not familiar with the Thermaltronics.MX-5200 has 80W output and they share this between two output.MX-500 is 40W one side output.MX-5000 not sure.Now I only get a STTC-143 first and waiting for other tips shipping.I find this type of thin conical is not good at big pads with lead free solder (I am using M705 from senju),But for the smaller components are good enough.Also the 63/37 Lead solder is performing better solderability then the M705.That's fine, I use mostly the 63/37 now days. And I will try the other tips after this.

author: mahi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 12:20:38 pm
content: The Metcal MX5000 is 80W (link) just like the MX5200, but cannot share this between both channels at the same time. With the MX5200 you can toggle between left, right and dual. TheMX5200MX5000 can toggle only between left and right.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 08:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: mahi on September 27, 2024, 12:20:38 pmDid you mean MX5000 there?

author: mahi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 08:53:03 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on September 27, 2024, 08:34:14 pmMy bad. I corrected the mistake. Thanks!

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2024, 09:03:57 pm
content: If in doubt see their catalogue - it is not that hard to follow