The Fine Brothers FAIL  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:06:26 am
content: How to ruin your reputation and brand in one videoOf course the internet melted down, and look at their subscriber count plummet!They had to make this update video which doesn't make things better:

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:07:01 am
content: I don't see what's really wrong with this? People are learning how franchise works and don't like it?Also, plummet is not the right word, really (compared to absolute number). People overreacted, and the numbers are not that bad. If this thing works out, they will probably get their money back and people will move on.That being said, I don't get what they are doing. One-two videos of this sort is more than enough for me, I wonder how they manged to build entire business out of it.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:09:54 am
content: Maybe they are running out of ideas for things people can react to, so they are creating their own.

author: CrashO
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:14:40 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 01, 2016, 09:07:01 amI think it has more to do with people thinking they want to franchise something that is not theirs. Ergo, "reacting" in general. As the FineBros already explained in their followup, they only want to franchise the format in the way they are using it. But it still sounds weird.Reacting, is not something they own, so how could they "let others use it", if it's not theirs to begin with.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:20:54 am
content: Actually, after some reading, those guys do look like complete scumbags.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:24:50 am
content: QuoteI'm going to patent the format of shooting footage with a camera and uploading it to YouTube. Then we're all gonna be like[My Format] + You = Profitz!!%5 discount to all EEVBlog members but no ripping off m'kay?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:41:36 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 01, 2016, 09:24:50 amYep, and that quote is why people are getting enraged about it. It's just a very douchy "big corporate business thing" to do for Youtubers.People expect this of Hollywood, they do not expect it of Youtubers, regardless of how big they get.People understand ripping of logos and brands and such, that's fine, protect that with trademarks, but trying to protect a Youtube format is just stupid, the community won't stand for it, and that is now plainly obvious to the Fine Brothers. But they still going ahead with it anyway and are going to take down videos that copy "their" format.It's like me trying to protect a video format that has a bench, a person sitting behind it opening mail, with a wall of test gear on racks behind it.If I trademarked that and tried to "protect" it, I'd be branded a douche.On the contrary, Iencourageothers to copy any of my format if they like it, heck, I'll even promote your channel.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:56:26 am
content: Watch in real time as their subs drop!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:57:46 am
content: Quote from: alho on February 01, 2016, 09:51:51 amUhh... they said themselves that they do not own the genre of "react videos". So.... I don't see the problem here?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:01:39 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2016, 09:56:26 amOuch! That's really rubbing salt into their wounds!I wonder if you could make a similar countdown timer overlayed on your Batteriser 'teardown video' for the actual performance gain Batterisers claimed to the actual performance (if/when you get one of course). Kinda like what South Park did in the episode "Shit hits the fan"...

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:01:43 am
content: I therefore open a franchise of OverReact TM

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 11:26:28 am
content: They should do a 'YouTuber's react to The Fine Brothers FAIL' video

author: alho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 12:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 01, 2016, 09:57:46 amThis youtuber has a kid reacting to him opening his mail and to stuff he gets. He didn't credit us, so go spam our content on his forum...You really don't see any problems whit this?Of course they say they don't own the genre, but they act like they do. Here is the segment of Ellen DeGeneres Show.I don't see much similarity with FineBros videos, but they do.Another example.https://twitter.com/thefinebros/status/572989392672837633And they have taken two youtube channels down with DMCA's. Seniors react few weeks before FineBros started making elders react videos and Ocubox for making British Kids React videos.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 12:43:37 pm
content: Who would want to watch this retarded cwap anyhow?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 01:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: alho on February 01, 2016, 12:33:30 pmThat's a worry.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 01:17:27 pm
content: Does that mean I cannot upload a video of a block of sodium being thrown into a bucket full of water?Does that mean the end of Mentoos + Coke videos? Forget about vinegar and baking soda too.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 01:22:36 pm
content: They claim they have a "format" for their videos...but what exactly is it? Someone sitting in front of a laptop reacting to a video is surely too simple to constitute a format.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 01:30:43 pm
content: They trademarked the word reacthttp://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:znwvpz.2.15What the scumbags.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 01:56:11 pm
content: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/43fdw3/seniors_react_originally_posted_apr_3_2012_was/No mercy for them.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:29:48 pm
content: They have made an application for the trademark, but it hasn't been approved - yet.The application is up the the 'Publication' stage. Publication date is given as Feb. 02, 2016. That's when the clock starts ticking for anybody to lodge objections - and they have 30 days to do that or to request an extension of that time.http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86689364&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearchNOW is the time to respond to the US Patent and Trademark Office!!

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 03:35:36 pm
content: Is 'rant video' concept taken yet?

author: CrashO
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on February 01, 2016, 03:35:36 pmDoes this count as a rant?

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:38:15 pm
content: This is good news:http://ryanmorrisonlaw.com/attorneys-react-the-fine-bros-react-trademark/

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:44:14 pm
content: Their only hope was to remove the video and make one apologising, but it could be too late, it's spreading like wild fire.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:46:09 pm
content: Well, I'll withhold judgment until I get Hitler's take on it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 11:02:47 pm
content: Probably the best analysis yet:

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 12:46:33 am
content: I'd bet Paul Hogan is really kicking himself for not trademarking being Australian now.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 01:08:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2016, 11:02:47 pmExactly.For anyone who didn't watch the above video, the problem is that the Fine brothers are sending out cease and desist letters to people who have a video of "X Reacts to Y". They have also been abusing the YouTube infringement policy to get other people's videos taken down.They claim they want to license their format... well, they feel that their format includes the simple title of X Reacts to Y. They did not invent that. They didn't come on the scene until 2012 or so, and there were TONS of React videos before that (remember 2 girls 1 cup? and videos of grandparents and teens and others watching it and reacting?). The Fine brothers came along and took something that already existed, achieved some success with it, and now want to make it their own and squeeze out anyone else trying to do it.But it's worse than that... they want to license their format, and for that priviledge they will take 30-50% of your revenue from the videos. Traditional franchises like McDonalds or Burger King will take more like 10-15% and they will give you TONS of support as well as making sure franchisees meet quality standards. Not the Fine brothers... they wake 3x or 5x what traditional franchisers take, and they have no quality checks or barriers to entry or support.So they are basically skimming a fat chunk of the money from a thousand thousands YouTubers.... under threat of "and if you don't, we will force you out". As the video says, it's racketeering - by definition.Fuck those guys. I hope their rep is shot forever.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 01:30:22 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 02, 2016, 01:08:21 amYep, me too.And it likely will be.Sounds like they might actually lose their trademark, and if they do the whole thing falls apart.They can't apologise after that, they need to do it now and admit their mistake, but they won't do it.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 01:32:20 am
content: I think its just the matter of time that someone starting to monetize this situation by creating a video of "Crowd React" on their move ?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 04:26:41 am
content: Ha, I guess they read my comment or they figured it out on their own and removed both videos from their channel.Edit: 271,585 subs gone and counting.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 04:33:01 am
content: Plus there is this:Quotehttps://medium.com/@FineBrothersEnt/a-message-from-the-fine-brothers-a18ef9b31777#.36d1xb184Edit: and their react world faq page is goneski as wellhttp://www.finebrosent.com/reactworldfaq/as is:http://www.finebrosent.com/join/but the react world link is still on their main page, probably will be gone soonhttp://www.finebrosent.com/Edit: that didn't take long, the React World link is gone from their main page now.I wonder if it's too late for them, but with so many subscribers even loosing one million might hurt them but they might survive it after all. That is if they loose that many.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 04:46:18 am
content: And they seem to be moving fast:You Tube video that was taken down:https://streamable.com/nwh9It's available now:And that's pretty much their video duplicated with no added content and the question time removed.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 07:08:06 am
content: Seems every successful youtuber should wear an ugly head sock. Why Dave does not have one? Is that also copyrighted ?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 07:12:12 am
content: Well, they passed 280K subs lost, that's 2% of their subscriber base.But it might be slowing down, not sure if it's because of the time of the day or their later actions and retractions.It's pretty interesting from the viewer point of view.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 07:24:11 am
content: Good time to back-peddle. They can still survive if they stop being so greedy (It's obviously about money). I think they've learnt a valuable lesson: Content consumers aren't the morons the Fine Brothers think they are.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 09:28:18 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 02, 2016, 07:12:12 amThe thing with unsubscribers like that though is that the damage is much more than just a ratio of subs lost to sub remaining. Because ordinarily only a very small percentage of your audience action something, like comment, thumbs, sub/unsub etc. To get that many unsubs for one video has got to be unprecedented, and they know it.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 10:44:40 am
content: Their "U-turn" is currently the second most popular news item on the BBC News website (after Ted Cruz beating Trump in Iowa).Doesn't seem to have stemmed the tide of unsubscriptions yet.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 11:39:50 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 02, 2016, 07:24:11 amCorrection: Content consumers aren't the morons the Fine Brothersthink theyare.OTOH, most (not all) of the "React" videos are quite idiotic, they aren't funny, they add nothing, they have nothing. Just plain waste of everyone's time.They've stepped back and for content producers things are back to normal. Their reputation, OTOH, has probably been permanently damaged, because their evil racketeering plan backfired.Like the lawyer I linked before wrote: if they had kept their mouths shut for 30 days, they'd have gotten away with it. I guess they are stupidier (is that a word?!) than we think

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:01:06 pm
content: I must be living under a rock, never heard of the these guys.Both my boys were sub'd, but no longer.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:06:59 pm
content: Okay;In 125 words or lessWho the Hell are the Fine Brothers??

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:09:55 pm
content: I'd never heard of them either. For that matter, I was only vaguely aware that people make videos of other people watching videos, and not at all aware that anyone actually watches themI guess that's why I'm not a social media millionaire.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:18:45 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on February 02, 2016, 02:01:06 pmNeither had I until this thread was started.Quote from: AF6LJ on February 02, 2016, 02:06:59 pmYoutubers who built up a subscriber base of over 14 million doing "reaction" videos. Videos which just show people reacting to stuff. Theywere(until sometime in the last day or so) trying to get the word "React" trademarked and to protect "their"*cough* *cough*format. Big kerfuffle ensued. They have now backed down so fast it would make your head spin.... but they have lost over 300,000 subscribers over the last 3 days - and they are continuing to lose them at a rate of 1-2 perminutesecond.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:25:53 pm
content: The thing that's also interesting to note, the subscribers they are losing are probably the most active ones, those who check their channels frequently and watch their videos as they are released.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 03:02:01 pm
content: Thanks I get it now.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 04:02:11 pm
content: Appears both original videos have been deleted, perhaps they are in full retreat?

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 05:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on February 02, 2016, 02:06:59 pmI'd heard of them as they keep cropping up in my YouTube searches. I think I watched one of their videos once and didn't find it very entertaining.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 06:06:21 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on February 02, 2016, 04:02:11 pmYeap, they are going home with their tails between their legs.Actually, I am sorry, I shouldn't have written the sentence above since its quite offensive to them... the real canines. No dog deserves to be compared to those 2 fucktards, so I apologize to all theCanis lupus familiarisout there.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 06:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 02, 2016, 02:09:55 pmThe precedent for this at least goes back to "Mystery Science Theater 3000".Perhaps Wuerstchenhund has some input on it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 06:33:10 pm
content: It was a cute idea for a scam, but the law isn't quite retarded enough to make it work.

author: dave_k
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 10:24:07 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on February 02, 2016, 03:02:01 pmSorry to hear that....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 12:14:04 am
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on February 02, 2016, 06:06:21 pmI'm surprised, I thought they would continue to flog the dead horse.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 12:16:19 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on February 02, 2016, 04:02:11 pmYep, 100% reversal on everything.They have cancelled all their Trademark applications and fully revoked their new ReactWorld program.Once they made that decision it was a no-brainer to remove the videos.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 01:17:03 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 03, 2016, 12:16:19 amThey could have gotten away with it if they understood one simple strategy - Salami Tactics.Do something bad but very small - wait for the few peeps of reaction to die down. Do another small bad thing - wait for the reaction to die down. Continue ad infinitum.This is how clever assholes do it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 01:35:20 am
content: There's always the possibility that this could turn out to be a tactical retreat...If my thinking is correct, by voluntarily withdrawing trademarks & applications, they will be free to re-apply further down the track.I'd be keeping an eagle eye out for much more subtle moves in the future.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 02:31:42 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on February 03, 2016, 01:27:03 amIt is actually a genuine oppression strategy. There is a Wikipedia page on it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 05:07:47 am
content: Subscribers are still bailing.They've lost over 365,000 now - and it's still going down.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 06:24:01 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 03, 2016, 01:17:03 amThat's exactly how Microsoft has been slowly taking over our computers and compromising our privacy.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 06:48:07 am
content: Thank goodness, now I can post my baking soda reacts to vinegar video.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 06:50:23 am
content: Quote from: jwm_ on February 03, 2016, 06:48:07 amThose hipster brothers might not have trademarks anymore, but who knows if someone else has. Be careful out there

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 07:23:17 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 03, 2016, 05:07:47 amIt's tapering down. Sometimes it actually shows resubs.They are at 371,300 right now but even if it fluctuates it's still trending down.In a couple of days it probably will start increasing again.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 08:55:40 am
content: probably seen a couple of their videos but didn't realise it was as big as it is.To be honest, i try and avoid watching videos like that, they tend to lead to watching more brain numbing pointlessclickbaitcontenti guess they will lose a few subs, in two weeks it'll all be forgotten and back to normal

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 10:12:31 am
content: Here is my "Reaction" to the current situation:

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 10:52:28 am
content: Maybe EEVBlog No 848 should be renamed to "ENGINEER REACTS TO ENERGY SAVING BOX".

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:10:12 am
content: Quote from: steve30 on February 03, 2016, 10:52:28 amWhy stop there, I should setup my own MCN network called Engineers REACT!Which youtubers are in?

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:22:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 03, 2016, 11:10:12 amYup. How about an "Engineers react to The Fine Bros"?Looking at the thumbnails in The Fine Bros' channel, it will probably have to feature 'youtubers' whom I have never never seen/heard of.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 01:27:11 pm
content: Douchebaggery at it's finest.Looks like they're retreating, but I think the damage is done. They've shown the world how truly greedy they are.Fucking not satisfied with what they already have.https://medium.com/@FineBrothersEnt/a-message-from-the-fine-brothers-a18ef9b31777#.eybboea38And for the graph lovers out there, check this out.Shows how fast they're probably crapping in their pants right now.https://tfbsubscribers.github.io/

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 09:37:40 pm
content: I also particularly love this bit (starts around 7m44s)...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWpio0FLrGs&feature=youtu.be&t=7m44s

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 05:04:12 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 03, 2016, 07:23:17 amSeems like by Feb 9th it totally tapered down and lost a bit over 490,000 out of their 14 million subscribers.It seems it has stayed at that since then with a slow growth now.Source: Link from this post on page 1.Quote from: AcHmed99 on February 01, 2016, 09:59:12 pm