Can we talk tape? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Elena
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:01:37 pm
content: What is a good variety of tape to get for any good electronics lab?So far I have looked into: Masking, Scotch, Gaffer, F4, Vinyl, Kapton, Double-Sided, DuctDoes brand / type matter? Which kinds are good?

author: Mp3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:07:49 pm
content: I buy the widest and cheapest electrical tape i can find on Amazon. If that doesn't do the trick, i have a roll of masking and duct tape handy, but those two are useful for general household purposes too.I've used copper conductive tape a few times, but it always ended up being taken off and soldered in place.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:25:42 pm
content: I use Kapton to hold things when soldering, etc, since it's heatproof and doesn't generate static. I just have cheap fake Kapton from eBay.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:29:07 pm
content: Antistatic or conductive tapeAlways using to re-seal static component bags. Actually a heat sealer would be better. I have tried our food vac sealer but doesn’t appear to work on these bags....FWIWSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Elena
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:38:40 am
content: Is "double sided tape" the same as "mounting tape"?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:40:19 am
content: Quote from: Elena on July 29, 2018, 12:38:40 amSorta. Mounting tape is thick (perhaps 1-2mm thick) double-sided tape, whereas "double sided tape" is thin double-sided tape.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:45:56 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 28, 2018, 11:36:44 pmGaffer's tape is, in essence, removable duct tape. To me, it's what duct tape wishes it could be: removes with no (or little, if left for a long time) residue, holds strong, tears easily without scissors. Its name is from its use by gaffers — the guys who rig cables and stuff for stage work. So it needs to be strong, but temporary. But it's also generally a LOT more expensive.Double sided tapes exist in various types, permanent and removable.If you've never tried it, the transparent 3M VHB mounting tape is amazing. It's strong, but on most surfaces comes off without residue. I first experienced it working at the fruity computer company retail stores, where VHB is used to secure everything (demo unit stands, signage, etc) to the tables, which are maple veneer. It holds so well you'd think there's no WAY it's removable, but carefully get a thin putty knife under it and it comes off without damaging the surface!! (The tape is actually just a band of gel-like adhesive, I think it's acrylic, with a red backing on it for positioning. There is no actual substrate.)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 01:06:33 am
content: Depends what you do. The essential tapes for me in no particular order1. Label tape. You got lots of high density connections to mess with, label tape is essential to keep them sorted. You can cut it to fit anywhere. On the circuit. On the breakout header. On an enclosure. On individual components that you are currently playing with, so you know how to order the one that wins out.2. Packing tape. This is what Scotch tape wants to be when it grows up. MacGuyvering on a miniature scale requires packing tape and a craft knife. Also essential for solvent/oil-proofing layer over labelling tape where indicated.3. Kapton tape. Obvious4. Carpet tape. Doublesided. Real sticky. Real thin. Sorta permenant, or at least hard to remove. This is something of a last resort, because not everything can be glued.The less essential things for my work:1. pvc electrical tape. Hardly ever use this to be honest. I probably use heat shrink tubing more than electrical tape. Electical tape is guaranteed to make a sticky mess and there's almost always a better way when at the bench. It's more useful for field work, IMO.2. Copper tape. For making connections and adding components in weird ways.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 01:50:31 am
content: Piggybacking off this, what is each tape used for in hobbyist electronics? i.e. what are some common uses of each? Are they often used in temporary ways during a build, or when prototyping, or are some appropriate even in a final build? What's wrong with permanent attach?And when might one use tape vs. hot glue?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 02:15:37 am
content: QuoteThis sounds a lot like the tacky jello snot used in retail packaging to hold things temporarily to the cardboard, or whatnot.The cheapskate solution which is even more versatile is hotmelt glue. It will do all those things. And it will release like nothing from maple veneer with a few drops of alcohol and the right leverage.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 10:12:15 am
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 29, 2018, 01:50:31 amKapton is good for securing things temporarily and permanently — just know that it loses nearly all its strength after being removed once. It’s not for strength, really. But it’s absolutely safe on PCBs, even ones with static sensitive devices.Kapton is what I use when soldering, when I need to secure something that will get hot in the process, since it can handle even direct contact with the iron. It’s also good for thermally masking off where you want to use hot air.I’d love to find the non-woven fabric electronics tape that you find in lots of Sony gear for securing wires and stuff, it sticks really well even long-term. (Like Kapton, can’t really be reused.)Quote from: KL27x on July 29, 2018, 02:15:37 amYes, that’s exactly how it feels!!!! I have no idea what the jello snot in packaging is like when it’s being applied (it looks like hot-melt, in that it has tails and threads hanging off), so I’ve assumed it’s applied like hot-melt.I really do recommend trying it, it’s useful for all sorts of stuff. Just don’t overbuy, it doesn’t last forever in storage. Old rolls lose their tack.Quote from: KL27x on July 29, 2018, 02:15:37 amHot-melt is definitely not a substitute for VHB. You can’t use it on temperature-sensitive surfaces like the (expensive as hell!!) acrylic shop fixtures, nor on paint. And it’s much more rigid, meaning that it has no flexibility to resist some wiggling — it’s gonna hold until it just gives. Plus, with hot-melt, you have limited working time before it sets. And with metal, it’s gonna set even faster because of the heat sinking.I’m not saying hot-melt is bad — it absolutely has its use cases — just that it’s definitely not a substitute for VHB.This reminds me, I need to get a new hot glue gun. I still have the low-temp one from my childhood. (It uses those oval shaped low-temp sticks that are now sold by Uhu. But mine is white and says “Princess” on it, LMAO. I guess it knew I was gay before I did!) But that stuff doesn’t hold as well as the high-temp glue. I’ve been looking at the Steinel 5000, but I’m open for suggestions.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 06:18:51 pm
content: Good duct tape (or gaffers tape?) is good for general repairs.Kapton tape with silicon adhesive is excellent for strength and temperature resistance. Polyester tape is almost as good and much less expensive.Vinyl electrical tape has its place as well. I have it in every color for marking things.Is there anyway to include a video link without embedding it?

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 07:27:46 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 28, 2018, 11:25:42 pmI bought some of this recently and it is branded Koptan. 😆

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 05:37:03 am
content: Kapton is a trademark name from DuPont.3M sells similar as Polyimide tape.Koptan tape is really the same stuff (4,4'-oxydiphenylene-pyromellitimide) .DuPont no longer holds the patent of the formula exclusively.This is common for many different products. It's all about trade mark laws and less about quality. But if your in favor of brand names over generic,buy brand name.But I have to agree with others here .Plain old electrical tape is essential .Ducted tape for securing something quickly but temporarily like wires to your bench.If your winding coils,some insulating adhesive mylar tape because its very thin.Copper or aluminum tape for EMF shielding is also handy.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 03:16:59 pm
content: Quote from: Jwillis on July 30, 2018, 05:37:03 amAlso to hold the arm rests of my chair together.Despite the name, duct tape is not appropriate for duct work.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 04:17:20 pm
content: Indeed!I actually don't know what duct tape is really intended for, since I think it kinda sucks for the things people use it for. It doesn't come off cleanly. In essence, people use duct tape for applications where they should be using gaffer's tape!

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 04:52:42 pm
content: It's for fixing the fender on your moon buggy!

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 06:45:12 pm
content: nice touch!don't forget self vulcanizing tape to prevent your outdoor rf connectors from downing

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 06:49:07 pm
content: I use Kapton when masking off areas of a board to prevent solder from getting on it.I use electrical tape for various things. I use masking tape to make a "living hinge" for solder stencils, and for splicing the cover tape on my pick and place machine. I also use masking tape to hold the cover tape down on partially used component tapes.Jon

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 09:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 30, 2018, 04:17:20 pmI put duct tape in the same general class as WD-40, products that try to be good for everything but end up being good for almost nothing. I hate trying to clean off the sticky goo left from deteriorated duct tape. One thing I know for sure is that it's not any good for sealing ducts. I've seen that done before and it dries up and peels off after only a short while.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:13:07 am
content: There's nothing wrong with WD-40, in particular. Almost every specialty oil is somewhat a snake oil. For some reason we allow this. It's a protected industry. A high school friend worked in a lube company, and he said as much. Government has a certain amount of cheese to hand out, and wink wink nudge nudge, some specific company gets the contract for mixing up w/e magic snot they need 200 tons of at $300.00 an ounce. It doesn't matter what niche sport, tool, industry uses oil. Someone will sell you an oil "specifically formulated for maximum performance," and fuckall if you can tell the difference between it and mineral oil.Sewing machine oil. Air tool oil. Gun oil. Pellgun oil. Norton honing oil is funny because they mark it "food safe." So you know it's 100% mineral oil. Probably more than half of these special oils are just mineral oil at best. Then there's "baby oil." They have to add some stuff to it to make it smell like babies, or something. But you can buy scent-free baby oil, of course. Cuz putting mineral oil on a baby just sounds wrong, I suppose.WD-40 is popular because they put their snake oil in an aerosol can. Gun dudes will swear on Ballistol, which is of course specially formulated WD-40 for cleaning guns.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:19:43 am
content: WD-40 is a decent water displacer, but it's much too thin to make a good lubricant, it's not great as a penetrating oil, it's not all that great of a solvent, as far as I can tell it's mostly kerosene. Virtually any product that tries to be everything ends up being a compromise that is inferior at almost anything.That's not to say that every specialized oil product is some kind of magic, but they certainly aren't all the same. You wouldn't want to fill your engine crankcase with power steering fluid, fill a hydraulic system with diesel fuel, fill a transmission with salad oil or try to use wheel bearing grease as a penetrating oil. Different products have wildly different viscosity and additives.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:24:02 am
content: Nope, I don't mess with car stuff. That stuff is seriously designed for maximum performance. I spring for the fully synthetic, and I don't care what it costs. If it's snake oil, I fell for it hook line and sinker.It's not just the google that convinced me. I had a car that ran hot (super high dry heat/climate). Switching to synthetic moved the needle back to normal.I have two kinds of oil in my shop for the last 10 years. Motor oil and mineral oil. When I buy something that comes with a little starter bottle of "Z Company Apple-Slicing Machine Oil," I drop it in the bin and use mineral oil on it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:42:28 am
content: I run synthetic in my turbo cars, regular oil in naturally aspirated cars and other equipment. Motor oils these days are overall a lot better than they used to be, the synthetics are slightly more resistant to coking when high temperatures are involved (such as turbocharger bearings) and a little better at holding their viscosity. The most important thing by a long shot though is to make sure there's always oil in there, and change the oil before it turns to sludge and the filter before it gets clogged up.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 09:45:33 pm
content: A trick I sometimes use is to wind tape around some cables with the sticky side on the outside.Make sure you pull on the tape to stretch it a bit to make the bundle tight.After a few turns, reverse the winding direction, so you stick glue to glue.Final result is that the tape is only sticking to itself, and will not leave glue residue when it is removed.

author: Pirateguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 02:37:30 am
content: for some things i like to use 2 layers of carpet tape with a layer of foam in between.the foam divided the stress on the tape and prevents it from pealing off over time if there is any weight on it, likewith things taped to the side of something.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 06:39:27 am
content: WD-40 is a lubricant /water dis-placer used to prevent rust by making a barrier from moisture.Also works well on electrical connections that are exposed to moisture.Although dielectric grease works best for connections WD-40 will "absorb" moisture quickly releiving shorts caused by moisture.All petroleum oils will absorb water turning a milky color.Synthetic oils are processed from petroleum just as "mineral oil" is but has more uniform molecules and stronger polymer chains.So it doesn't break down and acidify as quickly as conventional oils.But doesn't prevent absorbing carbon from combustion.Gasoline carbon is abrasive where as diesel carbon is much less abrasive.So other additives are introduced to limit the carbon abrasion.Teflon was an example .Others may contain molybdenum or copper. These soft metals act as microscopic ball bearings decreasing friction.The mineral oil used in baby oil is a liquid paraffin oil made from the production of gasoline(petrol).Parrifin oil is is a very mild oil used in medicine ,food ,cosmetics ,ect.All petroleum based oils are mineral oils but are seperated by classification. Class 1 and 2 are lubricants where as baby oil is a class 3.Theirs no snake oil just chemistry.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 07:03:49 am
content: Awesome info.Yeah, I knew that mineral oil was almost the same as paraffin. Just slightly shorter chains. Also it is relatively homogenous. And it is one of the few petrol distillates which is FDA approved safe for human consumption. So it doesn't dry out, like 3 in 1 or WD 40, which are crudely refined with lighter and heavier constituents, some of which are volatile, and some of which are heavier. The 3 in 1 oil, you can see red and brown solid crud settle in the bottom of the bottle, even. This is why I use mineral oil for general purpose lubrication and cleaning. It's a known quantity, and it doesn't gum up or evaporate. For low temp things like cleaning and lubricating hand and air tools and whatnot, I don't think it really gets much better. No oil is bad. Any oil is pretty good for lube and rust protection. If it doesn't gum up or go rancid, it's a little gooder.If I need some solvent action for cleaning up carbon and gunk, I can mix it with a solvent, myself. Or I can clean the tool with solvent, then oil it.As for no snake oil... Hmm..Norton honing oil does not list the ingredients on the bottle. Really no specialty snake oils do. So right now I can buy it for almost 8 dollars for 4 oz. Food grade mineral oil, $20.00 a gallon.I just google MSDS for Norton mineral oil. It's 100% white mineral oil. Obviously that was the only reasonable outcome, since it's food safe."Specially formulated" might mean something for quality motor oil. For many specialty oils this really means "we create several tons of this here petroleum distillate byproduct of the gasoline industry every year, and it works about as well as anything else when you put it on your tools. And when we put it in a tiny little applicator bottle, I bet you will pay 10x more for it."And yeah, this works. I bought 4 oz can of Norton honing oil knowing perfectly well what it was. For the flip top dispenser can. And knowing when I refill it with mineral oil, it's actually still labeled correctly.