Inspection microscopes are overrated - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 09:07:23 pm
content: I've just "discovered" that it is more comfortable to solder with 2 pair of goggles, one in front of the other. That is better than my binocular inspection microscope (x1 objective with x10 ocular). The 2 pairs of glasses are one with +3 dpt, sited normally on the nose, and another +3 pair in front of them but sited "upside down", such that it is easy to switch between +3/+6 by simply tilting the head.I know that the microscope's x10 magnification is too much for soldering. The plan was to add another x0.5 Barlow lens in front of the objective, which I never did so far. As a result, without the Barlow lens the distance from the PCB is rather small for soldering (~5cm or ~2inch), and the viewing area is too small.OTOH, with 2 pairs of ordinary plastic-lens goggles from the nearby grocery store (~$2-3 a pair of glasses with LEDs and spare batteries, from LIDL) the magnification can be made x3/6 by tilting the head, the working distance for the soldering iron is as much as you need, plus the field of view/focus is trivial to adjust, and the covered view area is spectacularly wide. Also easy to look around/sideways to a PCB by simply tilting/moving your head, no need to tilt the PCB as with the optical microscope. All comes very natural and it is just the right magnification for soldering even for the smallest SMDs, and all that without occupying half of your workbench.A $5 "investment" that works better than a binocular microscope, or even than a k$ Mantis.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 09:30:53 pm
content: What are you soldering? QFP SMD? Or just conventional through hole?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 09:32:36 pm
content: its for inspection!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 06:28:57 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on July 18, 2024, 09:30:53 pmEverything is SMT now, though I prefer THT whenever possible.Yesterday did only a short test. Will try more lens combinations over the weekend, and try a longer working session, to find if still more practical than the microscope.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 07:56:53 am
content: Just get a 2x head visor. At my age, I need reading glasses (about +2.00 diopter), so that adds a little. It is very comfortable for long use, has more than enough working distance, and working height above floor is comfortable.For close inspection or documentation, I use an optical dissecting scope w/ camera.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 08:39:44 am
content: My head visor has very, very low quality plastic lens, which is annoying for anything longer than a brief look. The big advantage with the head visor is that it's much easier/faster to put on and remove. However, when removed it will take a lot of space on the workbench, so it's better to have hooks on the nearby shelves/walls and hook the visor there when removed.Maybe I should try to attach a pair of glasses to the visor, instead of its original plastic lens.Another thing I've tried was to work under a big lens (~10cm/4inch diameter) the consumer type, made as a knitting aid or such. The lens is meh, not very good but bearable, yet its diameter is still too small to solder, and not very practical. Works OK as an aid, for example to keep a breadboard under the lens and make occasional rewiring, or move the measuring probes without reaching for glasses, things like that. Overall, the knitting lens wasn't practical for daily use.At one of the working places we used to have a similar size single lens on a lamp with an arm, a professional one made specifically for fine work (don't know the brand). I didn't like that one either. The lens was good, made of glass, but it was heavy and was oscillating when touched, or even oscillating with the workbench (which workbench was an office desk).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 09:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 18, 2024, 09:07:23 pmAre you trying to use a fixed focus microscope? No those are no good, use a stereo zoom one. Standard is 7x to 45x or 3.5x to 23x with the barlow.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 09:42:36 pm
content: IMHO 8-20x microscope magnification is about right for most of inspection and soldering depending on component size. 4-5x may be useful if you want to see larger area at once and solder large components with many terminals at once without moving PCB or microscope. 30-50x may be useful for inspecting the tiniest stuff.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 09:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 19, 2024, 09:29:58 pmYou don't necessarily need zoom, 3-5 switchable magnifications are fine.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 11:05:55 pm
content: After that it all depends on how much time you spend on the microscope and your magnification needs.A regular decent stereo microscope is still one of the best tool for the job, in terms of optics and sense of depth. But, if you use it a lot in a given day, that's not the most comfortable tool to work with. May also be a problem if you have neck pain. So, for that, you have the Mantis stuff. Not cheap.I for one have learnt to use a camera-based microscope and would not go back, for inspection and SMD soldering. It's the most comfortable thing to use once you're trained, and allows you to directly take photos and videos.Magnififying glasses tend to be pretty uncomfortable and also take some getting used to in terms of vision. Head visors are cheap but often very questionable optical quality. Still, they are comfortable to wear and may fit the bill for simple stuff.These days, as a complement to the camera-based microscope, when it's inconvenient to use and I only need moderate magnification, I use an illuminated (ring light) magnifying glass. It's much more comfortable than glasses or head visors, optical quality is much better. You can find them in various sizes and focal length.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 10:16:52 am
content: I like to use a magnifier lamp (a high quality one that is) but I think SiliconWizard is making good points about the camera based microscopes. I can see why they are more comfortable. I do wonder about depth perception though although this is less of an issue for inspection. I'm using a hand magnifier (single lense) for that purpose but a modern day smartphone also works quite well as a camera based magnifier although auto-focus can be iffy.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 10:45:11 am
content: When the inspection cameras appeared first, they were heaving huge video lag, about half a second or so, which was making the video appear like an "echo" of the soldering actions underneath. It was very unproductive. Meanwhile, many are saying video cameras are good for soldering.Are the current soldering/inspection webcams still laggy?

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 12:24:10 pm
content: I have glasses up from +1.5 and even stack of 3 is some what operational.There lens cleanliness is more important than usually.Best would be tall lenses from +6.0 to +3.0 and back.So that low is in the middle and high is up and down.Don't know how borderless would do instead of few different values.Stacking system creates dizziness quite easily if used without caution.I can walk around looking over reading magnitude, but better take all off.Worst is fast movement from situation to other, can't say how much head and/or eyes are included.Some frame structures can be easily stacked vertically.Half height can give triple magnitude with double frames.But lowest magnitude being mechanically lowest is not practical.

author: ifonlyeverything
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 06:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 20, 2024, 10:45:11 amI have an HDMI/USB video camera that I bought off AliExpress. I'd link to the exact model but their website is bugging out and not letting me log in at the moment. Anyways, I only use it over HDMI. The video lag is practically non-existent. I've heard it's a bit more noticeable with USB but I've never used USB.I've tried using cheap loupes in the past but that was no good -- they usually gave me a headache shortly after wearing them.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 08:40:00 pm
content: This is my setup, which works great for me. Nothing here was expensive.I spend a ton of time working under the microscope doing prototype work. Down to 0402 SMD reflow placement, soldering, rework, inspection, etc.I mostly use a 4" working distance stereo zoom head with 0.7 x 4.2 range and 10x eyepieces. Get the rubber eyepiece cups. You wouldn't expect it but they make a huge positive comfort difference.I spend the vast majority of the time at 0.7x zoom (so 7x total) and the 4" working distance is fine. I have the 0.5barlow that pushes the working distance up to 5.7" but I almost never put it on.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 10:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 20, 2024, 10:16:52 amWith some training, depth perception is not an issue. Keep in mind that even surgeons do some tricky stuff just using cameras and monitors.Ideally, your camera/optics are mounted so that you can orient them and not just have one angle of view (straight vertical).

author: GterBeke
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 10:51:26 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 19, 2024, 11:05:55 pmIf you still would like a Mantis, they just got cheaper. The entry model calledOPTAis available now for EUR1100 (£900), including the head, lens (4x or 6x) and stand.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 08:58:25 pm
content: Quote from: GterBeke on August 26, 2024, 10:51:26 amObjective lens x4 Working distance: 96mm Field of view diameter: 27.5mmObjective lens x6 Working distance: 73mm Field of view diameter: 19.2mmSo it has the same 4x working distance as the Mantis Elite, which is good, but FOV is just as bad or worse than original Mantis:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/disappointed-in-mantis-elite/msg4288336/#msg4288336Not great but at least the price isn't absurd anymore.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:29:22 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 18, 2024, 09:07:23 pmThere's a brilliant TV show from the UK called "The Repair Shop" where the horologist (clock repairer) is often seen stacking up glasses to see things betterhttps://www.youtube.com/c/therepairshop

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 04:54:03 am
content: Quote from: SmallCog on August 27, 2024, 12:29:22 amThat's exactly the arrangement of goggles that worked very well for me too.Now I'm curious for that TV show, and want to watch it, thanks!

author: GterBeke
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 10:11:48 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on August 26, 2024, 08:58:25 pmThe OPTA is like the Compact of the 2nd generation:Objective lens x4 Working distance: 96mm Field of view diameter: 27.5mmObjective lens x6 Working distance: 73mm Field of view diameter: 19.2mmThe Elite (or Elite HD Cam) was a little better:Objective lens x4 Working distance: 96mm Field of view diameter: 34mmObjective lens x6 Working distance: 68mm Field of view diameter: 23mmThe 3rd generation is an improvement:IOTA (comparable with the Compact)Objective lens x4 Working distance: 108mm Field of view diameter: 29mmObjective lens x6 Working distance: 74mm Field of view diameter: 20.1mmERGO (comparable with the Elite) or PIXO (comparable with Elite HD Cam)Objective lens x4 Working distance: 100mm Field of view diameter: 35.7mmObjective lens x6 Working distance: 68mm Field of view diameter: 24.2mmOf course the price is higher for the newer ones, but they are better wrt lighting and lenses (and camera)