How to spend ~$4500 for an MSO? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: willray
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 04:13:03 pm
content: Greetings all,I rather hate to post and ask this, and I feel like I ought to read every post here before butting in with a question, but I've an unfortunately short timeline, so...I need a decent, preferably 4-analog-channel MSO for the lab. Sampling rate and memory depth is more important than absolute bandwidth. Interesting on-board signal math, and/or the ability to drive the 'scope from an attached computer, would be a plus.I'm partial to Tektronix, but I'll consider other options. Older, but warranted/refurbished (ie TekSelect) is fine.My budget goes up to just under $5K for the mainframe, though I'd be happier if it came in under $4K. Probes/etc can be dealt with later and on a separate account.I've a reasonable amount of analog scope experience, but DSOs are mostly foreign territory to me. I have a couple, but if it gives you any idea of my level of ignorance, it took me forever to figure out why I couldn't usefully capture a transient in the memory on my Hitachi V-1565 DSO, when I could clearly see it on my ancient Tek scopes with analog storage CRTs.The 'scope will primarily be instrumentation for my students, who are going to be building some prototype "interactive games" to assess the effectiveness of several new treatments for muscular dystrophy. In general, I expect it to be complete overkill for the task, with the exception that I am hoping that it has sufficient memory to serve as an initial data-acquisition system for the assessments, as well as a testing platform for the hardware as it gets built. I do want MSO capability, as we're going to have both digital and analog signals coming out of the hardware we're designing. The more analog-like the 'scope behaves, the better I'll be able to help the students when they're trying to use it.So - what should I be looking at to purchase?Many thanks for your time,William RayOSU Biophysics

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 04:28:46 pm
content: Agilent MSO-X 2000/3000, whatever Rigol and possibly Hameg do for the same money.Getting an educational discount might be a big factor.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 04:36:45 pm
content: Without a question Id get one of these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/190815266221?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1432.l2649The Agilent 7014B is a beast. 8M memory, 100K waves per second, 12.1" 1024x768 display, 16 digital channels, VGA and LAN built in. Its a $10K scope and they will sell them for $3500.I have a counter offer right now at $3500. They are in brand new condition with all accessories and warranty directly from Agilent.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 04:39:07 pm
content: For good value, take a look at Agilent's Used Ebay store for a 6000/7000 series.e.g.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agilent-PREMIUM-USED-MSO7014B-Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscope-/190815266221?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c6d79e5adThey occasionally list 2000x and 3000x, but the older ones are generally better value, and are in some respects better scopes, e.g. they have VGA out and network as standard, both of which would be useful in an educational environment.And don't forget the 'Make Offer' button!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 05:06:14 pm
content: I'd buy multiple Rigol MSOs. It will help students much more to have a scope available when needed than having to wait for others to be done with it.

author: willray
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 05:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2013, 05:06:14 pmHeh - If only I could afford enough students to make that a necessity! Sure didn't feel like it when I was in grad school, but from this side of the table, hardware's cheap, compared to bodies!Will

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 06:25:34 pm
content: Um...... Since it looks like you are from the OSU Biophysics department, maybe go ask someone from the EE department?

author: willray
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 03, 2013, 09:21:30 pm
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on April 01, 2013, 04:36:45 pmThanks so much for that pointer. That's a beautiful piece of equipment, and way beyond what I expected to be able to consider in my price range. I have a suspicion I may finally be putting my old Tek 2645B/DM out to pasture. It's going to take some getting used to not having real knobs, but considering I survived the HP 54200 series, I think I'll live!

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2013, 10:55:35 pm
content: Quote from: willray on April 03, 2013, 09:21:30 pmVery welcome! Just dont hesitate too long as from watching their past activity on eBay, they tend to raise the prices every few weeks to a month it seems. But Ive had no problems getting them to honor older auction listing prices.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2013, 11:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: willray on April 03, 2013, 09:21:30 pmI still see plenty of knobs on that Agilent 7000, but yeah, the horizontal knob could at least be nice and fatI concur with the others, for that price, that 7000 series scope would be almost impossible to beat.

author: willray
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 02:23:05 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 03, 2013, 11:43:34 pmAh, I'm guessing they're almost all knob-shaped disguises for up-down pushbuttons... Real knobs point to things, and can be adjusted to known values even when the equipment's off, and without looking elsewhere to find out what value is selected.Call me a curmudgeon, but the interface designer in me says we really lost something when we started accepting that the optimization of solid-state rather than mechanical switching for (i.e.) level changes, outweighed the physicality of (i.e.) a real volume knob that pointed to the volume we wanted. At the very least, it makes it dangerous to flip on the TV when the wife's asleep, if you don't know at what volume the kids last had the set cranked up to...Still, I think I'm going to enjoy this scope quite a bit. It's going to look rather odd beside the rest of the collection of motley salvaged and antiquated equipment in the lab, but I certainly shouldn't need to upgrade any time soon!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 02:29:54 am
content: Quote from: willray on April 04, 2013, 02:23:05 amIknewI wasn't the only one who hated those! I've got an 80s Tek scope with digital controls, and if you turn the knobs fast enough (read: if you turn the knobs more than one click at a time), it misses clicks. If I didn't like it so much for other reasons I'd want to chuck it out the window every time I try to fiddle with the knobs.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 09:00:31 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on April 04, 2013, 02:29:54 amI'd agree that badly implemented encoders are a pain, but if done well they are much better than real pots, as you can combine coarse and fine control using velocity sensing.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 04:34:32 pm
content: If you jump on one of these Agilent units, dont forget to look into the current software upgrade promotion before you buy any upgrades from their ebay seller!http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2309757&nid=-33573.970736.00&id=2309757

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 07:09:26 pm
content: I've just sent them an email to ask if the current promotion (buy 1 application, get 1 free) applies to European customers as well.It says on the that pageAvailability: Worldwide (except Europe, Middle East, Africa)I'll let you all know their response.David.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 09:03:09 pm
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on April 04, 2013, 04:34:32 pm..and if you're looking at 6000 or 7000, all the license upgrades are free, as the trials don't have a start date

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2013, 07:51:21 am
content: And here is their reply___________________________________Paul WeathersCustomer Response CentreAgilent Technologies UK LimitedTel: +44 (0) 1189 276201Fax: +44 (0) 1189 276855contactcentre_uk@agilent.comwww.agilent.co.uk___________________________________Dear David,Thank you for your enquiry.I regret that this promotion is not available to European customers at the moment. However,this may change at some point in the future so I wouild check from time to time to see if the situation has changed.Best regards,Paul.Agilent Technologies UK LimitedJust have to keep my eye on their promotions I suppose.David