Do you believe at this bullshit ??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Free_WiFi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 11:16:48 am
content: I already know that RF Waves (especially some kind of them) are not good for living being etc etc etc .....But !!!Is this possible that devices like this :http://www.thebestamp.com/Accessories/Resonators.phpcan really shield us from danger RF Waves like wifi,5g etc

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 11:46:39 am
content: No, the only way to protect from RF electromagnetic field is just Faraday cage and other kind of well known electromagnetic shielding.Regarding to the Schumann waves (7.83 Hz, 14.1 Hz, 20.3 Hz), this is just impossible to make so small box which can significantly affect ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) electromagnetic waves. This box should be 7'384 kilometers in size or at least close to that size in order to affect Schumann waves.Just look at this VLF (Very Low Frequency) antenna:It is designed for 20 kHz band (15 kilometers wavelength). But Schumann waves even much longer, for example 20.3 Hz is 14'768'101 meters wavelength!

author: Free_WiFi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 11:54:09 am
content: Спасибо я так и думалFor people around,here you got some extra material to think on "How the modern wireless tech is killing us today".https://thefullertoninformer.com/death-by-wireless-the-horrific-legacy-of-big-telecom-and-its-agents-turned-victims-such-as-john-mccain/Thanks to all.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 12:30:51 pm
content: You really should be posting this stuff in the dodgy technology section rather than cluttering the more serious ones.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 12:46:55 pm
content: No. I am sure Google could find me 1001 websites with similar or the same rubbish. Why post this in this part of the forum?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 01:48:51 pm
content: Tin Foil Hats Actually Make it Easier for the Government to Track Your Thoughtshttps://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/tin-foil-hats-actually-make-it-easier-for-the-government-to-track-your-thoughts/262998/]

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 01:53:57 pm
content: Indeed, it's flat!

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 02:43:11 pm
content: Do I believe this "Bullshit" - absolutely not. It's just that, bullshit and you could learn that it is bullshit if you troubled yourself to learn some physics.Quote from: Free_WiFi on February 21, 2019, 11:54:09 amRather than exploring wacky theories, I suggest you actually learn the subject. It will take awhile. "The bullshit" is your belief that your questions have answers. If you are really concerned that your conspiracy theories could be true - STUDY THE SUBJECT. I have ... your concerns are based on NOTHING. Literally, no physics to support this ridiculous conjecture. "You got some material"? YES - A book on the physics of Radio Frequency Electro-magnetism. Do the work!

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 03:52:36 pm
content: To be fair they did publish a *wireless* method of neuron communication (its on slashdot) but its a far cry from making the brain a em antenna.Conciousness is weird though, i refuse to jump to conclusions based on inert materials and simple organisms.If it does have a mental effect it may be subjective to mood and possibly both a benefit or a hinderance depending on mental state. I always wondered if it could have a mild stimulant effect.It also creates a uniqur temperature gradient in your brain not achiveable with any natural source. But unless power levels are insane its hard to imagine it effecting neurobiological chemistryWith this stuff if you choose to embrace it basically make conciousness a extremely sensitive detector. Or you might be tripping balls like sauls employer lolOf course you can question the validity of the placebo a nd nake the assertion that your brain can detect it if you are aware of it some how? Maybe a phillospher can explain this musing i had.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 04:00:02 pm
content: No one knows what electromagnetic field is. The official science cannot explain all things, because the world is too complicated and sometimes even paradoxical. But at least it provides math models that really works and can be used.Unfortunately, official science is not so easy to understand and I think this is the reason why some peoples trying to believe in these stupid theories

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 04:03:33 pm
content: Idk if you can call it stupid. Its esoteric and dubious but its not really stupid because we have little understanding of conciousness.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 12:49:35 am
content: I have my doubts that 5G is going to kill us all. Virtually everyone alive now has been living in a veritable man-made electromagnetic soup for most (if not all) of their life. Not to mention all of us are living in a post nuclear world where background radiation in general is higher than it was prior to 1945 before nuclear testing. Look into low-background steel, for example .However...Shutting someone up and calling stuff bullshit just because they aren't mainstream science is alsobullshit. Challenge them on ideas, give evidence why they are wrong. You can go all the way back to the helio- vs. geo-centric solar system models to see why. For every advance made in science, there's tons more that scientists don't know. Dogmatically shutting viewpoints down because they aren't mainstream is not how new science comes about.:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 01:54:51 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on February 25, 2019, 04:00:02 pmActually anyone who took college physics and listened will know what an electromagnetic field is. If you don't understand it, that doesn't mean it can't be explained. Not only do many of us know, but we can predict what it will do in various circumstances mathematically, designing things like antennas. Also things like MRI machines etc.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 02:18:42 am
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 01:54:51 amwe know physics laws, know patterns and dependencies. It allows us to predict behavior (with limitations) and by using that knowledge we can design antenna or some other RF stuff. But we don't know anything what is stay behind these forces and why. These questions is out of scope for science. The official science don't have answer on these questions. It just helps to use known features of the world.We even don't know what is electron, photon or these virtual particles used in quantum physics. It's just abstraction, which is needed for our math model. But math model is not equals to real world, it's just a pitiful attempt to approximate real world behavior and nothing more.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 03:30:56 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on February 26, 2019, 02:18:42 amNothing you wrote demonstrates any evidence that you know this subject. In fact, you demonstrate the opposite. "We" - what is this? The royal we? Your rubbish simply shows you don't know, never studied and never made the slightest effort to find out. Pitiful attempt? Only your superficiality and failure to learn.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 03:33:39 am
content: I think he is right, basically it goes down to string theories or other extremely complicated equations that you can barely conceptualize and visualize and we have no good explanation of consciousness.We have an idea of how EM waves and simple matter structures interact. We don't know how EM and consciousness (neural activity which results in awareness/life) interact. Does the whole of the brain when operating do something different or result in strange interactions or have weird field/other analogies? We don't know. Think about it this way, you do a bunch of impedance analysis to get various impedance on a circuit but then by chance of layout it turns out to be a good antenna at some weird frequency. Can consciousness do something like this?Not to say that the matter should not be handled with the scientific method, but you can't blame him for being curious.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 05:23:09 am
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 03:30:56 amYes, I don't know physics so deep, just reproduced words of some scientist. May be I didn't understand him properly. But I don't see any mistake here.Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 03:30:56 amhumans of courseQuote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 03:30:56 amAll our science is just a math approximation with limited precision. We can improve these models, but it will never cover all cases of real universe. Because math model is not equals to real world. This is just a simulation which may be very close to the real world, but will never be exact the same as real world. In my opinion this thing is pretty obvious, so I don't understand why you name this "rubbish".If you know all these things, could you please help to understand a little more about electromagnetic fields?For example - what is structure of boson? And how boson interacts with electron? What happens with their structure at the moment of interaction?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 08:09:55 am
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 03:30:56 amMeh.Newton could have said the same to anyone who didn't believe that with enough energy it's possible to accelerate anything to any speed.Early 20th century psychiatrists could have said the same to anyone who doubted that lobotomy and electroshocks are a miracle cure to everything.Marx did say the same, and repeatedly, to everyone who doubted in communism. And his fanboys still doNot impressed at all.

author: gearedbyby
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 09:46:05 am
content: Relax, live in this age, no way

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 09:59:29 am
content: To build antennas or MRI, we don't need Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. When we will be building wormhole machine or other means of long range transportation - then perhaps we will need that knowledge.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 02:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: magic on February 26, 2019, 08:09:55 amPeople who followed Newton, then made NEW OBSERVATIONS which Newton's ideas did not explain. Those people knew his math evolved new and interesting math which then explained those phenomena better. This process of NEW OBSERVATIONS and then new math, validating new theories with NEW OBSERVATIONS continued to this day. People who bullshit about Newton, who never understood his calculus, never made new observations - we don't even know their names.So your excuses for bullshitting are just that. Excuses for actually not learning, not finding out about new observations and not even understanding or thinking about what is new.Why do you think I would care about lazy persons who are not impressed. Failure to be impressed goes hand in hand with laziness. Can you impress anyone? You demonstrate ignorance with the principles, the history and even the capacity for logical thought. Most of all - blithering ignorance of fundamentals of Electronics. This is the Electronics Engineering Video blog - and you don't even bother to listen to David's videos and think about them. So - rattle on. Your ignorance is not my responsibility but it is fun to call out silliness. That's all your blather is - ridiculous, silliness without a point of your own to make.Do you even know what Newton wrote? Did you ever use the Calculus? Do you know how his principles still work in certain frameworks? Do you know anything about the work of others following him? You provide ZERO reasons to believe the answer to my questions are: "No", "No", "No" At least read the history of Newton and subsequent developments between him and Einstein. You never did.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 03:23:19 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 02:24:45 pmHe did great job, but his math cannot cover all things in the universe.It just works good for certain limited conditions. Isn't it?You still didn't show that you know anything about electromagnetic field, you're just blaming other users.That's not good. If you really know antenna physics at very deep level, it will be very interest to see your explanation.Just try to replace your disagreement and blame with explanation and clarification of your point of view.In such way we can understand each other. Don't hesitate to use math

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 04:13:15 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on February 26, 2019, 03:23:19 pmNo it doesn't. The math developed since his time explains much more. INCLUDING RADIO FREQUENCIES. However, I don't think you know what his math explains or what more recent math explains. So tell us what is the "thing in the universe" (especially radio frequencies and electronics) which you "think" is not explained. So far, what you speculate is not explained, is explained, you just never read the subject.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 04:42:40 pm
content: GeoffreyF: I know the history of electromagnetic field discovery, know some math behind it, know about Maxwell's equations, Lorentz transformations, know history how all these things was found and discovered, know a little how antenna works, not so deep, but I understand basic things. Such as difference between Near Field region and Far Field region, explanation how electron emits and consumes photons, and other things. I can calculate simple antennas, such as half wave dipole or magnetic loop. I can calculate it's impedance for homogeneous environment with known relative permeability and relative permittivity and can imagine how it works. Also know a little how these things are explained in quantum physics but there are a lot of things that I don't understand. I'm not physicist. This is just interest area of physics for me.Our conversation was started when I told that no one knows what electromagnetic field is. The science provide us with knowledge of it's features and help us to use it. The quantum physics explains that electromagnetic forces are carried with bosons - fundamental particles. Photon is an example of such particle. But it doesn't explains what is behind these bosons.You said that you know what electromagnetic field is and started to blame me.But you still not said what you know exactly. Can you explain it please?So, what is electromagnetic field in your opinion?

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 06:42:57 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 04:13:15 pmIs there now an accepted grand unified field theory? If so please provide citations as I'd be very interested to read about it.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 07:26:48 pm
content: Quote from: 0culus on February 26, 2019, 06:42:57 pmAlso interesting about it, but I'm afraid that GeoffreyF will not provide us with such information.I asked him about bosons, but he didn't answer anything, so it seems that he just didn't realize what we're talking about.Probably he just means that some simple RF calc stuff, such as LC or notch filter is a knowledge what electromagnetic field is

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 07:52:40 pm
content: not sure if its relevant to this thread unless you know what consciousness is though.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 09:22:57 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on February 26, 2019, 07:26:48 pmThe information is in Physics books. There is no evidence at all that you read anything and so why should I write "Information" you are too lazy to read? What you stated I "Just means" - nope, wrong again. What an electromagnetic field is, is known to me and it is in books you didn't read yet. AGAIN you confuse idle speculation with actual thoughts based on observed facts. Your ignorance is your responsibility, not mine. Your bullshit needs to be called out.When people design antennas or explain signal propagation issues, there are excellent books which you repeatedly demonstrate you didn't read.This is an engineering blog - not a blog for sophomoric, idle speculations by persons too lazy to find out what is known. Read some good books on Electromagnetism IN A LIBRARY. That is where the information is. Your silly crap has no context at all in anything.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 02:24:45 pmSo you think I'm a lazy, uneducated bullshitter. Well, still not impressed, so many people say such things nowadays it's getting boringYou seem to believe that just because some people put some effort into their theories and extrapolations, everybody who puts less somehow owes it to them to take them seriously. It just isn't so. Because they can be wrong, as demonstrated by countless people who were wrong despite believing otherwise, and because others are totally within their right to simply not give a damn about you and your science in the first place.I for one praise all those unsung heroes who didn't give a fuck about Newton so much that - unlike his modern counterparts - he couldn't even dream about revolutionizing the world or forcibly employing whole nations' efforts for some utopian goals or putting whole nations' health at possible risk for the sake of development.The controversy around RF isn't really about science and health (people notoriously don't give a damn and ruin their health for shitty reasons) but of course about politics, as usual. Lots of people are getting tired of being told by arrogant smartasses what's supposed to be better for them. The 5G drama or whatever started this thread is but one of many symptoms.And, frankly, I agree with tinfoil hatters in that I don't want all that RF going into my home. I have no use for this shit. I don't like them employing governments to stop me from using majority of the spectrum myself. I don't like them locking up my WiFi routers. I don't like telcos trying to creep into the 5GHz ISM band as if they didn't have enough bands of their own. I think a century ago we allowed radio broadcasters to do those things because everybody could listen and we were supposed to benefit from it. But today they demand I pay for receiving signals they themselves spam me with without my permission? Give me a break. And a tinfoil hat please, here I come

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 09:22:57 pmRather than slandering us, why don't you provide citations from the field that you claim to know so much about? Link us the good books that you recommend in your expert opinion......if you can't do that I rather think you are engaging in projection or are just a troll.I happen to have studied the some of the mathematics that underpins modern physics as part of my mathematics degree and everyone I've worked in the field with is more than eager to help you further your understanding. They don't act like providing some guidance is beneath them, like this individual who appears to live in an ivory tower and thinks it's his job to be a gatekeeper.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:34:49 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 09:22:57 pmDude, for what reason you're writing that?If you have a thought about electromagnetic field, then just write it here.If you want to recommend some book about antenna, then just write it's name here.And please stop insulting.For example, I can recommend this book about antenna design:Constantine A. Balanis "ANTENNA THEORY ANALYSIS AND DESIGN"https://www.amazon.com/Antenna-Theory-third-Text-Only/dp/B004QRT12Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?keywords=Balanis+Antenna+theory+design&qid=1551219206&s=books&sr=1-2-fkmr1what is your recommendation?If possible please stop insulting and just explain what is your vision about electromagnetic field?If you're think that someone wrong, then explain what is wrong exactly and why.There is no need for insulting, just write what do you think about this and explain why.That's pretty easy.thanks for understanding

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:40:59 pm
content: Here's some stuff from the math perspective:Anyone who needs a brush up on vector calculus could check out this book, recommended to me by a mathematician friend:https://www.amazon.com/Div-Grad-Curl-All-That/dp/0393925161Once you feel confident with that, give the lecture notes from this undergrad (!) course at Oxford a try:https://courses.maths.ox.ac.uk/node/36493/materials

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:41:54 pm
content: You guys know how to use Google don't you? Many studies on these effects were done around the time when cell phones exploded in popularity.If you want to start down the path of understanding fundamental physics, then pick up any Physics 101 text book and work your way up from there. Then read what the great thinkers have published. Feynman's QED etc.Quote from: radiolistener on February 26, 2019, 10:34:49 pmYou cannot learn physics from a forum.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:47:11 pm
content: Not only can you not learn physics from a forum and can learn it from a book but if you run around making ridiculous speculations which have nothing to do even with the work to develop a unified theory - Don't expect respect or people to try and cut through bullshit to help you learn. Why not? If these people genuinely were interested in this subject - they would have sought, not only in google, but in libraries the literature on the subject. They never did and now they whine that nobody where wants to help? That's really lame.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 26, 2019, 10:47:11 pmYou insult people and yet are aghast to learn that people are calling you out to put your money where your mouth is? People like you are the problem. I feel bad for the people who have to deal with you in your local amateur radio circles.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 11:04:38 pm
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 26, 2019, 10:41:54 pmyeah, I also can recommendRichard Feynman - The Feynman Lectures on Physics,very interesting bookQuote from: timelessbeing on February 26, 2019, 10:41:54 pmI don't learn physics on forum. I just told that no one knows what electromagnetic field is.GeoffreyF said that he knows all about that. And start insulting.But he didn't explain what he knows, and didn't answer on questions, so I even don't know what he talked about.I asked GeoffreyF to explain what he knows about electromagnetic field not to learn, but to show him his mistake and to show why he don't know all about it. I can do it with links to official literature, include Feynman books for example. In order to do that, I need to know what he thinks about it exactly and what is his level. Unfortunately he didn't want to talk about it and persistently translates the conversation into insults

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 12:44:41 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on February 26, 2019, 11:04:38 pmYou cannot condense years of school and study into a forum post. That's absurd.People know enough about electromagnetism to understand that the subject of this topic is bullshit. If you are unable to ascertain that for yourself, then you are simply not yet at the level to have this discussion, and nothing we tell you here will change that.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 01:02:13 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 27, 2019, 12:44:41 amDude, I said that the subject of this topic is bullshit in the second message of this topic. And never changed my mind. I said that here much more earlier than someone other.Did you read this message carefullyhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/do-you-believe-at-this-bullshit/msg2215329/#msg2215329?Or you're just a second troll?

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 01:11:47 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 27, 2019, 12:44:41 amI don't think anyone is disagreeing that the product linked in the OP is garbage, and is completely not grounded in reality. In fact, I think radiolistener makes that pretty clear in the first reply.I take exception to this ivory tower attitude you and Mr. Geoffrey are taking. For all the time you've spent insulting our intelligence you could instead have thoughtfully provided some recommended sources of correct information that will do some small part to reduce collective ignorance. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. This is a public forum, it is not an academic journal, and not everyone here is a rockstar academic like you are (apparently).Gatekeeper attitudes like the aforementioned are only going to drive people away. Either that or you're just trolling.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 01:21:58 am
content: Nobody is gatekeeping. As Geoffrey said, if you really wanted more information, you would have found it by now.Quote from: radiolistener on February 27, 2019, 01:02:13 amGreat. End of discussion.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 01:40:21 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on February 27, 2019, 01:11:47 amIvory Tower? How so? Reading books on electrical engineering and the underlying physics is not Ivory Tower. Bullshit speculations from complete illiteracy on the subject is what? THIS IS THE ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING VIDEO BLOG. At either the professional or the hobby practice level, but not the silly crap. I am hardly "Ivory Tower" - no equations, no references to that. Just a simple request - NO BULLSHIT.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 04:14:37 am
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 27, 2019, 01:40:21 amI just read your comments on the forum and they are all almost the same - "bullshit", "bullshit", "bullshit".I seem to be beginning to understand why my message (that "Shuman Resonator" will not work) pissed you off.Are you PR agent of these "Shuman Resonator"?Now I realize why you tried to shout that you know what electromagnetic field is, with no evidence at all

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 05:24:01 am
content: Quote from: GeoffreyF on February 27, 2019, 01:40:21 amMeh. On my back of the napkin estimation from reading your posting history, at least half of your posts on this forum consist of bitching someone out for not knowing as much as you. I'll bet you're a real hit at parties.Last time I checked neither one of you two jokers run this site, so perhaps go start your own site if you want to be the arbiter of the kind of people you allow.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 05:39:29 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on February 27, 2019, 01:11:47 amhe is not academic, he is coder, with a small business to sell these "Schumann Resonators"

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 06:52:20 am
content: OK this has gone on long enough. The actual so called product is bullshit, we know that and it has no place here where we discuss actual engineering.