Speaker sound quality - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: abdullahseba
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 09:16:16 pm
content: HiIs there any difference in sound quality between buying a proper shelf speaker such as this one:http://www.whathifi.com/q-acoustics/3020/reviewand using a speaker driver like this:http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/speaker-drivers/0512815/The frequency response is about the same on both.I've never bought a proper pair of speakers before but I have got the Visaton Speaker Driver for a museum installation and to me the sound on a cheap Chinese 50W amp was superb to anything I have heard before (German quality)And now I want a good speaker for the AV receiver so I thought if the quality really is good, I will make my own speaker boxes and save about a £100.Any thoughts or experience?Thanks in advance.

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 09:19:12 pm
content: Links no worky mate.

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 09:44:57 pm
content: well, it al depends on the quality of the speaker and if the box is correctly built, it may sound as good or in some cases even better

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 11:56:32 pm
content: $150 per speaker is low end audiophile territory. You can probably get 80-90% of the sound quality for 1/3 the price or even less. If you have more time than money you could likely build some nearly as good but they may not be as pretty or end up costing much less.

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 12:09:56 am
content: The speakers and drivers are very small with no deep bass. Their power handling is low. The extremely cheap Visaton has a whizzer cone instead of a tweeter so its high frequencies will have a very narrow angle.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 02:50:55 am
content: Measuring speaker parameters and matching to a proper enclosure is more science then it used to be where trial and error was usual method.http://sound.westhost.com/tsp.htm

author: abdullahseba
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 07:19:17 am
content: Thanks for your reply's very useful

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 07:28:08 am
content: That is somewhat like asking which is better? This car, or this tyre?A speaker system is designed as the combination of woofer, tweeter, and the box which is just as important as the drivers. A raw speaker driver will NEVER sound as good as a proper speaker system designed into a box.Presumably you are talking about installing the speaker driver in some sort of installation? You should take care to enclose the back of the speaker driver in a box of the proper internal volume.However, it isn't clear whether your installation really needs the £190 Q Acoustics 3020? Unless you are trying to reproduce wideband, high-quality music, the raw driver in an appropriate box would likely work fine.

author: abdullahseba
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 08:18:21 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 16, 2016, 07:28:08 amYou still save about a £100 for roughly the same quality.Speaker: £13Tweeter: £10Crossover: £20Terminals: £5Screws: £0 plenty about the bedroom floor.Wires: £0 I've got about a mile I should think.Sealed Box: £0 I've got plenty of free woodLooks(if your bothered): £0 My mum can supply me with a whole selection of cloth or paint.Times that by two and you come to just under a hundred.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 08:22:16 am
content: Speakers, ready to use, no assembly required. $20 each in pairs.http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-b652-6-1-2-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-pair--300-652

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 09:44:54 am
content: Having made my own larger speakers I know that they take a lot longer to make that what you think, the baffle board needing rebating is quiet a task and getting a good finish to the front and box sounds easy but seldom is without a lot of time and effort.For some small bookshlef speakers I would look at places like Richer Sounds, they have some cheapies at £20 or some more well known brand names at £50 - £60 like the Tannoys; no contest in my book.http://www.richersounds.com/products/hi-fi-separates/speakers/bookshelf-speakersIf you want some really good quality larger ones , diy or ready made, check out Wilmslow Audio.http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 06:58:20 am
content: I sold hifi in college and have many years of considerable experience with speakers from low to high end. You cannot judge speakers well by specs alone. When trying to fully evaluate speakers there is no good substitute for actually hearing them. Further, when measuring and/or listening the source material and electronics will have an impact on how they perform, and the room acoustics might also have a big impact.Net, net you either need to hear speakers or get a recommendation from someone who has - someone you trust. Otherwise buying speakers based on specs, looks, or price is strictly a crap shoot. If the price or results don't matter much then of course you can pick out of a catalogue without hearing them and there isn't much risk. This advice applies to already made speakers. Making speakers will also require listening and you can't really hear the results until you have made the speakers. Making speakers with drivers, crossovers, and enclosures is likely to be an unpredictable experiment - it might meet your expectation or not. You can measure a lot of things but you can hear things that are sometimes difficult to measure.- just happened to see this today; seems somewhat applicable...Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.Practice is when everything works but you do not know why.Quite often these two things happen together; nothing works and you do not know why - Arihato

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 07:37:03 am
content: Constructing your own loudspeakers that will sound reasonable is not a simple task.I'm assuming you are going for 2-way in this case, as 3-way is significantly more complex.First you need to select an appropriate LF driver. If you select one with T-S parameters already supplied then that can save you a lot of hassle having to measure them. If you are electing to use a vented enclosure design then you will need to make sure that Qts is < 0.5 for better results. Then enter the parameters into a design program (I use a spreadsheet, available on my site) and select a cabinet volume that suits the desired size and response (this will be a compromise). Then you can select the vent (port) size and calculate the length.Now you need to select an appropriate HF driver.If you are using a single amplifier to drive the speaker then comes the crossover design, including the LF driver impedance compensation network (also called Zobel network). There's a fair bit of driver measurement and calculations to get the correct crossover design to suit the drivers, including the HF attenuator.Otherwise you can use a bi-amp design with an active crossover (much better results than the passive crossover). I just completed a pair of 3-way bi-amped speakers for the mastering studio. There's a passive crossover for the MF-HF split, and the LF-MF is done using the bi-amp with an active crossover.It takes time, a fair bit of measurement and calculation to get all these things right, however the results are usually excellent compared with just choosing any old cheap speaker and sticking it in a box with a junk crossover, which is really hit-and-miss. And you will learn a lot.

author: abdullahseba
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 07:45:40 am
content: Quote from: picandmix on February 16, 2016, 09:44:54 amI think I will just try it, as long as I'm pleased with the quality and its better than my 2.1 PC speakers that good enough for me.I don't go at crazy volumes or use musical instruments so it should me fine.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 09:47:35 am
content: Quote from: abdullahseba on February 17, 2016, 07:45:40 amDon't be too sure they will be better than your PC speakers, some of them can sound quiet good !You may have seen from that drive units datasheet its intended for mounting in voids like car doors or ceilings so not sure what it will be like in a sealed enclosure.What I would be tempted to try, is fit the speaker to a stout battle board ( 3/4" mdf or similar) and just try it like that without any box.It may give a nice sound and you could use it like that as a "skelton" display, just give the baffle board an attractive finsh.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 02:00:56 pm
content: The speaker enclosure is a critical element to the sound quality. A centimeter here and there and you ruin the performance. If you do decide to DIY it, read up on it and then use software that calculates the dimensions of the enclosure, which you then must follow very precisely. Unless you are willing to go to that effort, you are better off buying an off the shelf speaker system.If you're going to just hack something, you could use automotive speakers, most of which are designed to not rely on the enclosure for performance, since the size and shape of the speaker cavity varies wildly by car model. But you won't find them to be much cheaper than desktop speakers.What's the application exactly?!

author: abdullahseba
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 02:36:47 pm
content: Quote from: picandmix on February 17, 2016, 09:47:35 amMy current speaker setup consists of a centre speaker built in the monitorand a rather old 2.1 heap of whatsits. It doest sound bad but at higher volumes it starts to crack.The Visaton ones sounded way better in a tightly fitting box a carpenter I know made. And a cheap Chinese 50W amp.So in theory,they should sound even better in a correctly designed box and with the help of my ElectroDrid appfor the crossover.

author: abdullahseba
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 02:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 17, 2016, 02:00:56 pmI don't mind using calculators as long as I don't have to do the calculation I'm usually fineI'd like to use it as a 5.1 setup because the ones one the market are ether too expensive or look too funky and usually some wired shape which you can't fit anywhere straight.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 02:02:40 am
content: By the time you buy wood, glue, veneer and paint, the drivers, crossovers, etc., you've far exceeded what it would cost to go on a local classifieds website and buying a used 5.1 system. (The market is flooded with used surround systems at the moment, since people have replaced their old surround systems with new ones with HDMI. Great quality home theater systems which merely lack HDMI are now going for peanuts on the used market. They make great audio systems for computers, where you don't need to use the AV receiver to route video.)

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 05:07:17 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 18, 2016, 02:02:40 amThat's all true but there's often a catch where the speakers are concerned. Many low to mid range 5.1 systems have great processing/amps and lousy speakers. My current setup runs on an old Sony STR-KS1000 which was had, along with its speakers for £20 off ebay. The speakers sound less good than a cat being simultaneously skewered with a hot poker, drown and strangled. The amp on the other hand, hooked up to a set of 5, twenty to thirty year old, Tannoys just sounds as if it isn't there. And it's not as if I'm not critical as once upon a time I was a studio engineer so I know what the really good stuff sounds like.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on February 19, 2016, 05:07:17 pmSounds interesting ....I built a copy of these speakers over ten years ago and have served me well, though quiet large in size.Any suggestions as to anything ready made or diy that are likey to improve dramatically on them ?Have heard of these studio classics (?) many times though never had chance to listen to them.http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/classic-retro-designs-125-c.asp

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 10:10:21 pm
content: Quote from: picandmix on February 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pmSorry, what speakers?QuoteMy experience in studios has all been with JBL or Tannoy setups that are just way too big for domestic use except possibly if you live in Texas and if Texans are actually telling the truth to us about how big everything is there. The 15" Tannoy dual concentrics in Lockwood cabinets we had were each the size of the sofa I'm sitting on and were driven with a pair of Crown DC300As - 300W a side on the low end. So basically no helpful recommendations.I've never actually heard anything bigger from Wilmslow than their LS3/5a clone speaker. Those were good, possibly slightly better than the BBC/Rogers original but not a fair basis for judging the whole range. Also I have to be fair to the original LS3/5a by saying that you only ever got to hear them in less than ideal circumstances because that's exactly where you use a small monitor like the LS3/5a e.g. In the back of an outside broadcast van. Whereas I heard the Wilmslow version in someone's living room.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 10:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on February 19, 2016, 10:10:21 pmAs shown in the KLS14.PDF attachment at very the bottom of my last post.The LS3s are interesting though the Wilmslow Kit is almost 1/3 the price of the LS3 kit from Focal ..? a very big difference for the same basic design