Aluminum PCB for Front Panel - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 01:24:53 pm
content: The last time I tried to fabricate panels for a project in my home workshop, it was a difficult job. The cutouts were various shapes and I wanted them to look nice. So I carefully made some wood templates, attached them to the aluminum panels, and used a router to cut the holes. It took far too much effort and, although the results look ok, there are some obvious misalignments and minor flaws.So, for my most recent project, I decided to get a panel made by a PCB shop. I thought I would have it made out of FR4, but found that the price for an aluminum panel was the same as FR4 at ALLPCB. So I ordered panels made from aluminum.The order was placed during a holiday break, so there was a slight delay in response from ALLPCB. I had given specific instructions on where they could place the manufacturer number on the board so that it would be covered by a knob in the final assembly. ALLPCB contacted me to confirm my instructions. Six days after payment I received the panels via DHL.The quality is fairly good. The white solder mask is good and without flaws or gaps. The black silk screen lettering is flawless. I noticed that the larger holes are very slightly out of round. I suspect they were cut with a router rather than a drill. However, I had specified the holes to be slightly oversized, so it's not an issue for me. The edge of the rectangular cutout has a very small tab where it seems the router completed the cutout. This is hardly noticeable (perhaps 0.1 or 0.2 mm) and could be easily corrected with a hand file. Perhaps the biggest issue is that there are some scuffs and scratches in the surface of the solder mask that likely occurred as the panels were moved around during manufacturing and handling.These panels are 160mm x 65.5mm, 1mm thick. They cost $4.41 each, delivered to Michigan, USA. The quality is not what I would want in a commercial product. But, I likely wouldn't be getting panels made at a pcb shop if it were for commercial production. For prototype or hobby use, I am very pleased with the result and cost.(For those concerned about ALLPCB paying for postings, I am not posting this for payment and will not be submitting it to ALLPCB. I just want to share my experience in case others are looking for cheap panels for a project.)

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 07:41:23 pm
content: I was just looking at that, and was thinking to my self, that you potentially could use an alluminum panel as a capacitive touch button surface. An some clever use of copper might make for a really interesting contrasted panel. AS you say, an issue might be with how clean they arrive.

author: pelule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 08:26:12 pm
content: I my stupi, but I can't find it atwww.allpcb.com.May you give me a short guidance?/PeLuLe

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 08:35:09 pm
content: When you get to the Quote section, select Aluminum as the substrate.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 11:18:44 pm
content: The AllPCB order number in the middle of the panel looks silly.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 11:29:13 pm
content: If you see above in the OP, he said he put it there so it was covered up by the knob. but yes, it is silly and thats not always going to be an option. You could put a tooling strip on one side perhaps.. On all my panels they have always put their reference number on the tooling strip, which largely is a don't care.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 12:02:19 am
content: You say the quality isn't quite what you'd want commercially. Could you elaborate how and why?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 12:14:25 am
content: Quote from: whalphen on October 11, 2018, 01:24:53 pmTypically the biggest drill size for most pcb manufactuers is 6mm. So, anything bigger than that will be routed. The drill machines are set up to drill at very high speeds, ( which you need when you run very small drills ), so there is a cut off somewhere,.. Routing accuracy is ±0.15mm however, i'd i'd not expect to see a step, that is a bit unsual. you might get some kind of offset. you might get that if a tool is on the end of its life..Solder mask is just not that tough really.

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:33:11 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2018, 12:02:19 amIf I were doing this for commercial purposes, I would not want the scuffing and slight scratching in the soldermask. I suspect that if I sprayed a clear paint coating on top, the scuffing and scratches would no longer be visible. But I haven't tried that. As I mentioned, the quality is fine for hobby or prototype use.Another possibility is to go with a matte finish rather than a gloss finish for the soldermask. The scuffs and scratches would likely not be visible in a matte finish. But the matte options are about twice the price.

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: pelule on October 11, 2018, 08:26:12 pmYou have to select the 1 layer option and then the Aluminum Board PCB type will appear as an option.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: whalphen on October 12, 2018, 07:35:17 pmIn some circumstances, using FR4 is also an option. Particularly if you want something that is an insulator. I have done this, and then sprayed the pcb with a coat of clear-coat which works well.

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:46:29 pm
content: Yes. And FR4 has some other advantages:It can be flipped so that the order number appears on the back.It may be possible to make it reversible so that it can show different lettering for a separate project when flipped over.Surface mount components and circuitry can be added to the back.Of course this can all be done on a double sided aluminum pcb. But ALLPCB only offers single sided aluminum substrate.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 09:30:18 pm
content: Allpcb offers double sided alumium boards.. You move into a much higher per unit cost though.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2018, 08:44:37 pm
content: So what's the process for this? I guess: The "front panel" is the copper side, and since there are no traces, it gets etched away. Do you include a copper layer in the Gerber set? Or is the aluminum backside the panel's front, so you have to work in a mirror-image mode?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2018, 08:48:02 pm
content: Yes, top side would be the front side. You dont' have to remove all teh copper. You might be better to just leave it all on. Something i've done before is use the copper to pattern it. You can get some great effects with things like circles ( 1mm ) spread out in a hexagon type pattern, or hash lines etc etc. Particually if you use a colour othr than white for the mask.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2018, 08:55:44 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on October 16, 2018, 08:48:02 pmI'll try it. I did a rough order-of-magnitude cost estimate on Seeed's website and it was like $62 (plus shipping) for ten panels that fit a Hammond extrusion. I can't get one from Front Panel Express for anywhere near that.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2018, 09:22:04 pm
content: what size panel is that?

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 09:30:15 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aluminium-front-panels-made-by-the-pcb-fab/

author: lutkeveld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 10:51:27 am
content: I got my panels made by ALLPCB (54 dollar for 15pcs)Quality is okay, but as said; not great enough for commercial purposes. For a hobby project I would be more than satisfied.I choose the matte finish, don't know if the 'normal' black finish would be more scratch and finger print resistant though...Otherwise I will have to move on to anodizing

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 12:50:13 pm
content: For my fellows in USA... it's aluminium not aluminum for Pete's sake ! Peasants !

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 01:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: M4trix on October 25, 2018, 12:50:13 pmwas that necessary? In USA they spell it aluminum. It is a /təˈmeɪtəʊ/ - /təˈmɑːtəʊ/ and /pəˈteɪtəʊ/ - /pəˈtɑːtəʊ/ kind of thing... Yes they are funny that way, together with imperial system. So what?Regards,

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 01:32:41 pm
content: Nobody from USA has complained about my comment but you, my fellow countrymen !

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 01:41:19 pm
content: Quote from: M4trix on October 25, 2018, 01:32:41 pmWell they are small, poor unprotected country and somebody has to :-)

author: MiDi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2018, 04:51:13 am
content: An alternative for a PCB FP is a custom made CNC FP with more options,e.g. front panel designer from Schaeffer AGEuropeUSA/CanadaI am not affiliated with them, but you get really good quality for decent price.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 05:25:56 pm
content: Another option:https://uk.beta-layout.com/frontpanel/(I've never used them and no affiliation)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 06:20:48 pm
content: Quote from: M4trix on October 25, 2018, 01:32:41 pmMaybe because we don’t need to be taking language advice from a pissant non-native speaker? (I’m American. In American English we spell it with just one “i”. End of story.)Or have you forgotten how your country’s language is actually the same as two of your neighbor’s, originally considered one language, but now considered separate due to purely political reasons, and that you don’t even share the same alphabet? And you’re complaining about minor spelling difference?!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 07:13:25 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2018, 06:20:48 pmAnd again, was THAT really necessary?I corrected him because he was wrong. And so are you. It is not that simple.You obviously don't know much about the particular topic so please don't make authoritative statements like that.Topic is Aluminium (Aluminum, Al, Atomic number: 13) front panels.. Not who can make worse insults to foreign nationality.Regards,Sinisa

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 07:23:23 pm
content: My post was supposed to be a joke but someone like tooki is using it as a political provocation. I know all about aluminium and aluminum but obviously tooki has no clue or pretends that he has no clue about my language and the language that my neighbors are speaking.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 08:40:39 pm
content: Actually I studied linguistics. It’s an oversimplification, but it’s also notwrong.Serbo-Croatian is one language (with various dialects, of course), but thanks to the war, it’s now treated politically as separate languages even though they’re not.Did I choose this example to be provocative? Damned right I did. I’m completely done with playing nice when people attack my native language, especially about dialect issues where there is no right and wrong, just different accepted varieties.Maybe Europeans should just stop being pricks and insulting Americans over our English at every opportunity. (And yes, you do itall the time.) It’s not funny when it happens in every damned discussion. (Like the comments in every. fucking. video. about. soldering. made by an American.)

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 08:51:14 pm
content: *Thank you* "this is the answer to my prayers" LOL, just kidding, but several of my projects need decent front panels really badly.My own efforts just don't turn out as well as Ive hoped and I really need this kind of option.How many do they make you buy to get that price? (all of my projects so far are one offs, or just for myself, not mass production)

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 10:12:14 pm
content: I ordered only five panels. I'm very satisfied with them. They're far better than anything I've fabricated myself. And the price was low. The panels I ordered were 1 mm thick. Next time I'll go for something a bit thicker because the 1 mm panels flex easily.I frequently do projects and have been looking for a good solution for enclosures and panels. I found an inexpensive enclosure on AliExpress that's easy to work with. (Search for 6.7" x 5.1" x 3.1" Blue Metal Enclosure Project Case). It can be purchased with or without front and back panels. I'll be getting some generic panels made -- with a cutout for an LCD and a mounting hole for a rotary encoder. This combination can be used for lots of projects. Behind the LCD I can mount an Arduino or a custom board. I've also been working on a flexible, table-driven menu structure/ user interface that works with the LCD and encoder. Now I can focus on the circuit designs for my projects and not have to spend much time on the enclosure and user interface.