Do you remember when the central US weather radar showed a huge rain cloud but.. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2017, 06:45:02 pm
content: I always look at the NEXRAD radar for the united states and for about 8 hours during summer of 14 or 15? there was a huge "cloud" of light rain over OK KS TX and the whole central US. But it didn't look like a huge rain cloud it was very even and had no heavy accumulation spots. But when you looked at the weather there were clear skies and no rain. There was some local news reports aout people smelling a strange chemical smell and complaints of head aches and sore throats. But no news reports tying the two together. I don't believe in chem trails or any of that nonsense but there was definitely a huge radar signature and no rain. I have never seen that before. I have searched the internet and never found anything. If I could remember the date you can look at radar archives. Does any one else remember this?

author: WZOLL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 02:31:34 am
content: http://wtfrly.com/2013/06/05/huge-mystery-blob-on-weather-radars-over-militarys-redstone-arsenal-in-alabama-still-unexplained/#.WdBSkMiGNPYFound this on a sketchy "alternative media" site. Notice the donate button, a sure sign of a questionable news source.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 04:25:18 am
content: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-doppler-radar-can-track-bird-migrations-180952834/

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 04:27:21 am
content: Buggy radar?http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/feat-weather-radar-bugs-texas/index.html

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 05:20:38 am
content: see attached

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 05:24:05 am
content: These are almost always 'biological targets', also called insects. Always worse in the summer, when the air is warm enough that they can get fairly high off the ground and be picked up over longer ranges. US NEXRADs have been upgraded (in 2012) with dual polarization capability, so insects can easily be distinguished from rain by looking at their differential reflectivity, since they reflect more horizontally polarized energy than vertical. There's a joke amongst radar meteorology folks that 'it always rains where the radars are', because if you look at a composite of the entire network in the summer, you will see the insect echos clustered around each radar.Many services that present radar data often use aconstant altitude plan-position indicator (CAPPI)display, the gridding algorithms used for these can occasionally get tripped up when individual radars switch modes from slow-scan general-purpose modes to high update rate modes used when there is severe weather nearby. These can show up as rings around the radar in question.Another potential cause for this is so-calledanomalous propagation, during which refractive index gradients in the atmosphere can cause the RF from the radar to bend back towards the ground. AP is again mostly seen during the summer months, when such gradients can build in the atmosphere.When multiple individual radars pick up a burst of noise on a common azimuth, this can often be due to radiometric noise from the sun, when the sun is low above the horizon.Finally, there are times when individual radars can be left in calibration or other diagnostic modes, and the software higher up in the chain doesn't know this. The data is then composited in with the rest of the NEXRAD network, with odd-looking results. There are many rather amusing videos on youtube made by various conspiracy theorists who find these, and use them as 'evidence' of mind-bending rays from HAARP, or various other crackpot ideas. Be prepared to check your mind at the door if you watch too many of these...Edit: removed inline youtube links and put them at the bottom.

author: jimdeane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 08:40:11 am
content: The local weather stations have shown radar from minutes post-earthquake when all of the birds fly at once for several movies.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 08:58:30 am
content: False echo's. They happen all the time. Could be anything from animals, smoke haze to RF interference.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 04:53:03 pm
content: the two pictures I showed dont really capture the intensity of a swarm of locusts at all adequately. When they are all flying its like a black cloud in teh sky and there are literally billions of them, they spat into the windshield in very large numbers. This has happened to me three times.Also, once in New Mexico, I saw an incredibly strange simultaneous migration ofvery large spiders. I kid you not.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 05:13:48 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on October 01, 2017, 05:24:05 amLocust swarms have been recorded at 4500 metres (~15,000ft) and flies and butterflies as high as 6000 m (~20,000ft). To my mind that's a fair bit more than "fairly high"; quite impressive in fact.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2017, 06:07:40 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 01, 2017, 08:58:30 amThat's the thing. This didn't happen all the time. It happened once and didn't look like any other time. Insects don't give people sore throats. Any time people smell things they complain of other phantom ailments but they definitely smelled something. I too thought it was just false radar images until just by chance I saw the news reports of people who were complaining about the air. Since I was the only one who saw both I can rule out conspiracy theory nut jobs unless I am one and don't know it. Also I have never seen news reports of people smelling things but there were a lot of interviews with people.So my guess is they were testing radar blocking aerosols or they were trying to cover up a huge radar signature. I wonder if there is a way to see FAA radar and see if there is anything on that since that's a very different radar then the NEXRAD. Also the TDWR picked up the same thing as the larger radars.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 01:17:21 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on October 01, 2017, 06:07:40 pmThis is starting to sound a little far-fetched to me.Why bother going to all that effort to "cover up" something, they could easily just throw the radar into "maintenance mode" and block the images from being viewed publicly.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 02:29:41 am
content: You must mean, on the slopes of mountains, i.e. Tibet.. Not that high without any high mountains nearby..Quote from: Cerebus on October 01, 2017, 05:13:48 pm

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 03:50:16 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on October 01, 2017, 06:07:40 pmIf you were trying to cover up a huge radar image, why would you use a material which could be easilysmelled?If that was the case, an "enemy" would only need to bus in a lot of people to fan out in all directions & find the territorial limit of the smell.They would then know where to look.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 04:27:34 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on October 02, 2017, 03:50:16 amIf you were trying to cover up a radar image, why would you use a physical substance at all, especially one that's airborne and short-lived? Surely it would be just as easy to create false echos or swamp out a radar using RF.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 05:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on October 02, 2017, 02:29:41 amNope, for locusts that is free flying swarms - quite incredible isn't it? Glider pilots have reported seeing swarms of migrating monarch butterflies* at 11,000 feet. All sorts of odd insects have been found high in open air by researchers sending up, by balloon, traps that open up at pre-set altitudes. From memory, I believe that the highest free flying insects ever discovered were beetles.*Monarch butterflies are remarkable creatures, they follow a multi-generational migration route. That is, the generation of butterflies that starts one end of the migration has all died off and been replaced by later generations by the time they reach the end of their migration route. So the butterflies that reach any of the migration sites haveneverbeen there before.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 12:32:55 am
content: Indeed, that is really quite remarkable. We really have to make sure these remarkable creatures don't die off during our watch, so to speak.Quote from: Cerebus on October 02, 2017, 05:55:54 pm

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 01:53:33 am
content: Quote from: cdev on October 04, 2017, 12:32:55 amWe are going to see a lot of things die off as the earth gets warmer.

author: Habropoda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 02:58:47 am
content: Many insects migrate, from tiny aphids, flies and moths on up in size. A recent decade long study in the UK using special radar and balloons estimates an annual migration there of 3200 tons of insects, several times as many tons as is estimated for birds:https://www.nri.org/news/2017/nri-radar-detects-trillions-of-invisible-insects-migrating-over-ukhttp://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6319/1584Now if we had GPS units that a fly could carry we could get a much better idea of where they are all going. Come on all you EEs!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 06:08:48 am
content: A Rain of Frogs..

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 04:57:21 pm
content: I like how as soon I posted that something was going on with the military many here all of a sudden started saying how it was just insects. How can you say that without knowing what insects look like on radar and without seeing what this event looked like? Say it is insects, what does this radar signature have in common with a swarm of insects? How is it different? What size are the insects? How does an insect compare with a rain drop? Are there insect swarms that all of sudden appear then go away covering a huge % of the united states? Why weren't any huge swarms of insects reported on any of the news stations that day? Seems like some people are more interested in proving someone wrong then finding out what actually happened.

author: jpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 05:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on October 05, 2017, 04:57:21 pmWe're just sceptical of reaching fanciful conclusions based on little or no real information, especially when there doesn't seem to be any real news reporting of it. Some local news reporting could be something genuine but very local, e.g. I routinely smell strange things where I live because not far away a site regularly burns off various kind of rubbish which, among other things, includes all kinds of organic waste leading to all kinds of differing weird smells and the area covered depends on the wind. Unfortunately, due to the prevailing wind condition where I live, I am mostly downwind of the site. However, if you have actual information links from reputable sites then supply them and we can investigate further.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 09:43:11 pm
content: Whatever it was, including atmospheric conditions I find it odd that there seems to be no sign of a drift direction due to wind. Was there no wind that day even high up.http://wtfrly.com/wp-content/frontpage/huntsvilleweatheranomaly.jpg

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 09:44:49 pm
content: Quote from: jpc on October 05, 2017, 05:40:08 pmPrecisely. To add to that (and repeat what I said earlier) false echos are very common and can appear sporadically. Straight from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology's website about interpreting radar images:The radar may sometimes detect echoes from aircraft, areas of smoke/ash from large fires, swarms of insects, flocks of birds or even the ground or sea surface, when unusual atmospheric conditions bend the radar beam back down to the surface. As a result, there may be patterns on the radar images that do not represent falling rain.Sometimes the refractive index of the air is such that the radar beam becomes "bent" and reflects the ground or ocean surface some distance away from the radar. This is known as Anomalous Propagation and occurs usually when there are strong temperature inversions present.The 512km composite images are unique as they are a composite of all available radar images and sometimes several radars may contribute to the overall view. Some radars in the Bureau network are windfinding radars, which means that there are certain times of the day in which they do not provide input to the 512km composite radar views.As a result, when widespread rain is evident in the region it can sometimes disappear from the radar image between one frame and the next. This happens because the nearby radar has switched to windfinding mode. Similarly rain can sometimes appear after the windfinding radar switches back to its normal mode.As you can see there are numerous explanations which are far more likely before even beginning to think about some kind of military test or "radar absorbing aerosols".

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 10:21:49 pm
content: These videos show starlingmurmurationIt is quite beautiful, isn't it?

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 03:56:51 pm
content: This made the news recently: butterfly migrations observed by radar:http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/04/unexpected-front-range-weather-blame-butterflies/Quote from: Beamin on October 05, 2017, 04:57:21 pmI'm a radar engineer, we're actually quite confident of how insects, birds and other 'biological scatterers' appear on radar, particularly when polarization data is available. Look at the image loops in the linked article. The panel on the right shows reflected energy (corrected for range attenuation), while the panel on the left shows differential reflectivity, the ratio of vertical to horizontal energy. Most meteorlogical echo will have that ratio close to 0 dB, unless they get to be large water drops, in which case you might see a ~3-6 dB ratio. One can model what the scattering looks like by solving Maxwell's equations for various types of targets, including insect-like ones.Then again, I might be able to go onto a forum, and posit that what I'm seeing on radar displays has only one cause:...and then complain when someone gives amore reasonable explanation.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 03:24:24 am
content: Quote from: jpc on October 05, 2017, 05:40:08 pmDoes your local news report every time you smell something strange? No this was a bunch of reports from multiple states about people feeling ill. I still don't see how birds/insects can cover entire states and be picked up on all the same radars. Swarms will affect one radar not make two radars hundreds of miles apart see the exact same echo. Also as I said this was a totally even blob that didn't move around it just came and stayed there for hours: insects or birds would move around up and down or from and to a point. NEXRAD gives access to different azimuth angles (elevations depending on distance from radar) and all the technical feature a meteorologist would see and the pattern was the same on all of them. It looked like someone with MSpaint took green and covered the radar map; there weren't any light and dark spots like you would see with birds or insects or radar clutter but very consistent like a finely dispersed aerosol . A swarm might be huge but its not going be consistently thick from the ground to miles up. I'm not an expert on radar but I had been checking the radar from weatherunderground (back when it was catered more for meteorologist and aviators then the general public, which is why I liked to use it) daily for years and this was a first for me and still haven't seen anything like it.

author: Habropoda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 03:52:29 am
content: Hmm. Military or birds or insects. Why not all three!

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 05:56:03 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on October 07, 2017, 03:24:24 amWouldn't it have been easier for the same someone to have used the eraser tool in MSpaint instead of green?

author: jpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 02:27:16 pm
content: Whether my local news station reports on strange smells ir not depends to a large degree on how many bother reporting it to them. I never do as I know the cause, as I imagine do most locals but I have had non-locals query the smell. It can also depend on whether it is a quiet news day or not for on very quiet news days all kind of crap can be reported as fillers. You then often find that other local stations will pick up on such news stories and see if there is anything even remotely relevant in their locale. The old if you look hard enough you will likely find what you are looking for, or at least something that can be interpreted as matching the pattern you are looking for.As to radar imaging, there are so many things that can screw up readings that without added information it is pure speculation especially assuming the two events, if real, are linked. After all correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. But hey, speculate as much as you want, but don't be surprised if many of us remain sceptical about your speculation until you actually present real evidence. Otherwise you're simply using an argument from ignorance, i.e. what else could it be. When you don't have actual evidence, and from past experience I don't count local news reports as real evidence and nor do I consider speculation about radar images from a lay person as evidence for anything much, the correct answer is not wild speculation, but "I don't know".

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 06:35:00 pm
content: Quote from: jpc on October 07, 2017, 02:27:16 pmI can draw this conclusion: Two events happened that day that don't normally happen. They covered a large area and affected a lot of people.I have not seen any official explanation for it. I would like to know what meteorologist thought of the situation and if/how it changed their forecasts. If I saw the radar I would have told you it was raining.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 09:38:15 pm
content: Completely unrelated to this thread, but..Just another data point.I just smelled a really horrible, strange smell, outdoors, and it leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth that makes my mouth numb.Whatever it is, I sure would like to know what chemical or whatever it is...Quote from: jpc on October 07, 2017, 02:27:16 pm

author: jpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:27:34 am
content: Quote from: cdev on October 07, 2017, 09:38:15 pmFind out what was the direction of the prevailing wind yesterday and work back from there. Though things like odours can travel incredible distances when the wind is in the right direction and atmospheric conditions are just right.

author: jpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:36:59 am
content: @Beamin. That is a perfectly reasonable position to have and is completely different to wildly speculating about some military anti-radar spray or the like. BTW, if you have a half decent university near you, see if they have a meteorology department and if they do look up the names of a few profs there and drop them an email. Many academics are only to happy to answer questions from the general public as long as their obviously not nutters. I.E. obviously I would mention the apparently strange static radar image and the local news reports reports of strange smells but I wouldn't repeat your military anti-radar spray speculation when asking them what they thought.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 12:08:12 am
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on October 06, 2017, 03:56:51 pmAn expert. That's why I like this forum. What has me confused is why multiple radars hundreds of miles apart would show the same thing. Insects or bird that's a localized event. This was huge. Not that migrations are not but this was just too big.

author: jpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 02:35:39 am
content: The odds are that anybody answering you on here would also just be speculating unless they had access to the data from those radar scans. If you really want to know you need to find someone at one or more of those sites who has the data to examine. After all, if it is a publicly funded site of some kind in the US, with some exceptions, they generally have an obligation to share their data and findings with the public.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 07:16:31 pm
content: Quote from: jpc on October 10, 2017, 02:35:39 amThe mystery deepens. Turns out the data is/was held on Hillary's email server. Its not on the trump server because I don't think he knows how to send an email (that part is true he doesn't know how to use email or read (it); which is also true.)Oh life on earth is so doomed. I hear it's a "false flag" anyways, truth be told I don't know what a "false flag" is but it sounds bad or shady. It's like the old saying: Sticks and trinitite stones can irradiate my bones but sensitive emails with the wrong header format on basement servers can never hurt me!) And yes it is aliens. BRB: black cars with men in suits are pulling up to my house. EDIT: It's definitely not aliens it is "A weather balloon and my memory of the event lacks credibility because I once cheated on my wife and it's why I have to step down as head of the investigation; if my wife can't trust me the American public can't trust me. You know this I know this the American tax payer knows this."But seriously does anyone know where radar archive data is held? Can you see FAA radar? Weatherunderground had one but can't find it since they were bought out by the weather channel.

author: jpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 09:34:12 pm
content: Well the sites you initially saw the radar scans might be a good place to start looking in depth to see if they are the original source and if not ask them who is. As I said above, if the source is anyone who received public funding, whether public universities, US government departments and even private organisations if they received any public, i.e. government state or federal, money as part of their funding. If they refuse you can always put in a FOI request to the relevant organisation. It all depends on how much effort you are prepared to put into it if you really want to find out what may have been the cause. I'll leave it there as I have no further interest beyond a mild curiosity if real data pointing to it being an actual occurrence ever appears

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 01:31:35 am
content: When they privatize things they no longer have much transparency or accountability at all. Unfortunately.Quote from: jpc on October 10, 2017, 09:34:12 pm

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 05:06:48 am
content: Sorry folks, I've been at sea with terrible network access.Quote from: Beamin on October 10, 2017, 07:16:31 pmYou can visit theNCDC archivefor NEXRAD data here:https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/nexradinv/You can also get TDWR (FAA) data here:https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/radar-data/tdwrIf you don't trust the government, try the archives at Iowa State's Mesonet:https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/archive/NCDC has a tool to view the archives' binary files. You can also use software like GRAnalyst to display them (it has a 30-day trial), or roll your own usingPyART.As far as I know, FAA ASR data is classified and not available to the public. There's a place you can grab NOAA Hurricane Hunter data (from the tail-mounted radars on NOAA's P3s), as well as their wind profiler network, but it's on my work computer that I can't access right now.If you're interested in the more esoteric, you may also view data from the Department of Energy's ARM sites' millimeter wave radars here:http://www.archive.arm.gov/armlogin/login.jspThere may also be places to grab data from NASA ground-based radars as well (limited bandwidth, so I'm not going to spend too much of it searching). Finally, you can also get data from various University-hosted radars:http://www.chill.colostate.edu/http://radar.atmos.und.edu/

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 12:58:33 pm
content: I don't think there is any possibility it was aflying squirrel migration.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2017, 01:35:43 pm
content: Most sites seem to have settled on fine fiberglass chaff, it looked much too evenly distributed to me for it to be that, and seemed to expand and contract into the same area.So what was this radar cloud.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 11:32:43 am
content: Quote from: StillTrying on November 12, 2017, 01:35:43 pmAliens DUH.Wow I never expected to get so much info from this thread. This was just a curiosity but now I have renewed interest in it. I can't remember the datethanks to a seizure. In fact I almost forgot I made his thread!Did we ever figure out the date in this thread?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 08:03:45 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on November 26, 2017, 11:32:43 amThey don't have to use chaff, they have much more sophisticated cloaking techniques.Quote4th June 2013.https://sincedutch.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/652013-huntsville-radar-mystery-solved-bae-systems-raytheon-and-decibel-research-inc/

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 08:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on October 01, 2017, 06:07:40 pmDo you have a single shred of evidence that anything different happened?Every single scan of every NEXRAD radar going back to 1997 is archived and publicity available online. If there is some mysterious signal that doesn't match up with normal ground clutter which occurs every night, post it. "Some guy heard from his crazy uncle who heard it from alex jones" isn't good enough.Your description sounds an awful lot like this:Which is a completely normal result of temperature inversions refracting the radar beam and occurs on an almost nightly basis.Radar engineers call it superrefraction. The beam is being bent into the ground, which results in a radar return.This happens all the time, often at night, but it can occur any time the radar passes through a temperature boundary. Just as you can see the distortion in the above a hot car, temperature differences distort the radar beam.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:47:21 am
content: Some "gentlemen with badges" came to my brothers house (he lives in a different different state then me ) and asked him about this thinking I lived there. They told him that there was nothing to see there and it is every ones best interest not to look into it, talk about or tell people about it. "Its nothing and we will contact you again if we see that you are still looking into things that shouldn't be looked into". Then they left and scared the shit out of my brother and his wife. Well solves that mystery as to what it's NOT.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 01:07:26 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on February 05, 2018, 12:47:21 amOff the meds?

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 11:50:52 am
content: Quote from: BradC on February 05, 2018, 01:07:26 amNo that part I did make up to see if it would get anyone's attention but then I forgot about this thread when nobody noticed.But seriously something like this did happen to me:Back in the 2000's my ex said I was crazy when I told her about the GPS mandate in cell phones after 911 and how the government, which part I didn't know, was monitoring them alog with all communications. The "e911" system cost the cell phone industry hundred if not billions of dollars to upgrade everyone's phone for free and install new equipment on every tower. Look how hard it is to get common sense safety regulations in place for any product. People literally have to die in scores, sue, then start winning law suits, before a company will make any change they cuts into profit let alone costs them money. Remember the formula in fight club where if a product recall costs more then wrongful death law suits the product won't be recalled? Yes thats real and the people that make those decisions are called actuaries and get paid a lot of money to figure that out. I don't at all believe that all of a sudden the Verizon wireless family is afraid we might have to call 911 and can't talk because our kidnappers have duct tape over our mouths or we are choking. Also 3 times I called 911 when I was on areas of highway with no indication of exact location and all three times the 911 operator told me they didn't know where I was; that was in two different states and three different systems. I even said my phone has enhanced 911 why isn't it working? They replied they had no idea how that would work. Then Edward snowden leaked out what I deduced from common sense not internet conspiracy websites. Yes I said "I told you so" to a lot of people. Most "conspiracies" are not elaborate at all like the alex jones channel would leave you think think. Most are right in front of our face but to see them we have to challenge the norms of thinking and be open to all ideals. I found the "6 sigma design steps" has a lot of tools for finding if theories are valid. Somethings you have believed your whole life make no sense if you didn't have preconceived notions. IE "I buy this because it is cheaper and saving money is good" the question should be how much cheaper and at what non monetary expense.Here a thinking outside the box example: We have a gas station/convenience store that is about 10 cents a gallon cheaper and people form traffic jams to buy gas there. Assuming you get a 3/4 tank at 16 gallon that's 12 gallons times 0.10 = $1.20. Say you also like beef jerky. One package of beef jerky is $3.00 more then at any other store and $1.00 more then at any other gas station. EVERY product in the store is way over priced. So buying one item like jerky plus gas costs you a net of negative $1.80. So not only did you waste time waiting in line and possibly driving out of your way you are losing money buying the cheap gas. Tell people this and they will still go there because "it saves them money"Plus the cheap gas has chem trails in it that make aerosol radar absorbing material to hide Hillary Clintons alien spaceship that is runs on warp drive made from cash for clunker engines and child prostitutes. Don't even get me started on her Benghazi email server run by shape shifting reptilian replibots that make fake news directly penetrating your tin foil hat and clothes hanger radiation shields!