Trying to repair Armrest controller and need help Identifying component - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Jordantwin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 11:27:37 pm
content: I have an Armrest controller from a tractor and I'm having trouble identifying a component. I cant read the numbers on the them. Most of them test 2.7k ohms from center to either outside pins and 0 ohms across the outside. I have one that is testing open to the center pin but i don't know what these are.Pictures are attached and the part number for this controller is 399285A1

author: Jordantwin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 11:28:54 pm
content: I don't know why this picture didn't attach but I'll add it

author: Manul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 11:43:39 pm
content: This is a filter, also called EMI suppression filter. Yours probably contains two feritte beads and a capacitor. Usually for suppression of noise.

author: Jordantwin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 12:10:25 am
content: That makes sense. Thanks

author: harmetp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 01:03:44 pm
content: Did you ever successfully repair the arm rest controller? Was it just the filter that was bad?thanks

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 10:59:19 pm
content: What troubles are you having with it?I have repaired several of these in the past.One of the more common problems was one or more remote levers not working(even after replacing or swapping the remote module).It was found that the filter caps on the inputs to the 4053 ic's had shorted due to static discharge and low volt rating of the filter caps.Cheers

author: harmetp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 11:37:43 pm
content: Right now it goes off line then comes back. When it's working the remotes, throttle, shifter all work fine. The fault codes just say off line. If it was just a bad passive device, I could replace it.Did you only have to replace caps and/or filters or did it involve pulling IC's (sounds like the 4053 is generic, but I'm not sure all of them are).thanks

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 09:59:41 am
content: Ahhh, that one.Replace the 10mhz(double check, going by memory) smd crystal next to the main microcontroller. If you warm it up a little it should start up and run normally almost straight away. A tell tale sign that it is this is the lights for the difflock and 4wd come on and stay on, whereas they would normally flash on then off when the power was turned on.I see in the one in the picture in post 1, it is 16mhz, but the one pictured is an older version, which I never had to repair. I suspect yours may be the newer one.Also the other problem that occurs is the wires in the wiring harness to the armrest can break internally near the plug.Grab and pull each wire, if one is stretchy, keep going till the insulation breaks, then you know where the break is.If it is an older New Holland tg255 or equivalent, they had active terminators for the can bus, one at the back behind the back cover and another in the engine bay. These used to get broken solder joints where the pins from the plug soldered to the board. They were the biggest piece of expensive garbage ever used. Eventually these were superseded wit a small plug with 2 resistors to terminate the can bus and were comparatively very cheap.Hope that helps!Cheers

author: harmetp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 11:33:19 pm
content: Thank you. I'm going to mess with the arm rest harnesses tonight. I have a new board coming to get me going again, but I plan to work on the bad board. If it is just a couple of crystals that would be nice.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 12:01:01 pm
content: Quote from: harmetp on October 28, 2021, 11:33:19 pmJust wondering if you had any luck?Replacing the board might not directly give you what you need. If it is new, you will need to program it and calibrate, if it was second hand you will need to calibrate the remote levers and hitch control.Hopefully it was just a broken wire. Normally the broken wire happens only an inch or two below the plug.If you need any more help with it, sing out. These tractors were my specialty for 11 years.

author: harmetp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 12:05:56 pm
content: I replaced the board and a local independent service guy has the Caseih software and adapter so it's all good for now. I have the software, but my adapter hasn't come yet - it can't be any of my other adapters. it has to be the caseih. When I get some time, I plan to work on the board (find replacement crystals, check continuity of the filters). Hopefully I find something obviously bad.thanks

author: kumppari
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 23, 2022, 12:01:46 pm
content: Hi! You said you had experience with case mx 285 armrest. I have problem where all controllers are offline, 2 terminators have been replaced and fault doesnt go away. When i turn key 4fw and difflocks lights light up and after a while they turn off. Armrests part number is 87454949. Is it possibile that the problem is in that crystal you talked about, its number is FS8.000P or can it be something else. In Finland i cannot get that part anywhere. Is there anything similar that can replace it?

author: kumppari
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 25, 2022, 07:55:41 am
content: Hi! You said you had experience with case mx 285 armrest. I have problem where all controllers are offline, 2 terminators have been replaced and fault doesnt go away. When i turn key 4fw and difflocks lights light up and after a while they turn off. Armrests part number is 87454949. Is it possibile that the problem is in that crystal you talked about, its number is FS8.000P or can it be something else. In Finland i cannot get that part anywhere. Is there anything similar that can replace it?

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2022, 11:06:18 am
content: Quote from: kumppari on June 25, 2022, 07:55:41 amHi, thanks for sending me a message or I may never have seen your post!If the 4wd/difflock lights come on for a few seconds then go off then this is normal behavior.What you will need to do is disconnect each controller individually until they all come back on line.However, if there is a problem with the instrument cluster or the canbus to it, then nothing may ever come online as the instrument cluster can't see them.If you have a service tool(diagnostics) it should still display which controllers are online if the icu/comms was bad.Check for places where the wiring harness has rubbed under the cab or bad connector.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2022, 03:35:32 pm
content: Hola buenas tardes, agradecería muchísimo vuestra ayuda.Los errores que me indica el tractor sonInst 1:12011Trans:12011/12041Hitch:12011/12041/08001Aux:12011Pto:01016/54040/54120/54130/54170Perf:12011ARM: ERR COMTodos los graves que me tienen bloqueado el poder trabajar con el tractor son los relacionados con la comunicación de la centralita y ARM. He conseguido que la luz led me parpadee pero aun así sigue teniendo el error ARM "ERR COM". Cambie los cristales osciladores y permanece igual, revisé todos los bus de datos y están ok, (2.5 voltios). De la ECU hacia el ARM solo hay 4 cables, 2 bus de datos (amarillo y verde) alimentación 12v Rojo y tierra Negro. Los dos bus de datos según me indica el libro del tractor (Case IH MX 180 MAGNUM), están correctos, la tensión del amarillo es 2.5 voltios y el verde es 2.4 voltios.Es el mismo valor tanto de la salida del reposabrazos como de los que llegan de las ECUs. La tarjeta tiene una luz led verde que si parpadea está correctamente. (La luz parpadea), por lo tanto esta ok. No tengo osciloscopio para poder medir los pulsos de señal que salen y entran en ARM/ECU. Leí que algunos hablan de la tapa de los filtros, Cuál tapa decís?. También se habla de los osciladores de frecuencia, esta tarjeta mía los lleva de 16mHz, ambos se los he cambiado y permanece el error. En la fuente de alimentación alimentando el ARM, con la cámara térmica me indica una temperatura de 30/32ºC en el procesador TN80C196kb16 y dos memorias que están cerca, en principio no es una temperatura alarmante y la fuente muestra un consumo de corriente de 150mAh.Puede ser el multiplexor?Puede ser de los terminadores Activos 284638A2?Con toda esta información alguno puede orientarme algo más? muchísimas gracias a todos por vuestra ayuda.Hello good afternoon, I would really appreciate your help.The errors indicated by the tractor areInstall 1:12011Trans:12011/12041Hitch:12011/12041/08001aux:12011Pt:01016/54040/54120/54130/54170Profile:12011ARM: COMM ERRAll the serious problems that have blocked me from being able to work with the tractor are those related to the communication of the control unit and ARM. I have managed to get the led light to blink but still get the ARM "ERR COM" error. I changed the oscillator crystals and it stays the same, I checked all the data buses and they are ok, (2.5 volts). From the ECU to the ARM there are only 4 wires, 2 data bus (yellow and green) 12v power Red and ground Black. The two data buses, as indicated in the tractor book (Case IH MX 180 MAGNUM), are correct, the yellow voltage is 2.5 volts and the green is 2.4 volts.It is the same value both from the armrest output and from the ECUs. The card has a green LED light that flashes correctly. (The light flashes), so it's ok. I don't have an oscilloscope to be able to measure the signal pulses going in and out of the ARM/ECU. I read that some talk about the filter cover, which cover do you say? There is also talk of the frequency oscillators, this card of mine has them at 16mHz, I have changed both of them and the error remains. In the power supply feeding the ARM, with the thermal camera it indicates a temperature of 30/32ºC in the TN80C196kb16 processor and two memories that are nearby, in principle it is not an alarming temperature and the source shows a current consumption of 150mAh.Could it be the multiplexer?Could it be from the Active 284638A2 terminators?With all this information, can anyone guide me further? Thank you very much to all of you for your help.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 11:54:00 am
content: The Active terminators are one very common area for them to fail.You can peel the rubber out quite easily and solder up the bad solder joints if they have some, or your dealer should be able to supply the updated passive terminator for very cheap and they never fail.Just looked up some of the codes and they just about all are to do with comms, I'd do the active terminators first if they have not already been done. They are the most common failure if comms are bad.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 12:16:06 pm
content: ok de acuerdo, entonces voy a mirar primero los terminadores. Este modelo de tractor lleva los dos terminadores activo e iguales, tanto en la parte delantera como en la parte trasera (284638A2), sabéis si con solo uno funciona o hay que poner los dos activos?ok alright then i'm going to look at the terminators first. This tractor model has two active and equal terminators, both in the front and in the rear (284638A2), do you know if it works with just one or do you have to put both active?

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 12:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: maikelrf89 on August 23, 2022, 12:16:06 pmI have a feeling that it might not matter if you have one active and one passive. The replacement passive terminator was like $20 compared to $300 for the active terminator. The active terminator should be long out of production now, they were hopeless!I think from memory you can disconnect the faulty terminator and the controllers most times will come back online.If you could please put your posts through google translate, that would be helpful for everybody reading the thread.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 01:08:01 pm
content: of course without problems, I put it in Spanish because my PC translates it automatically, sorry.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 01:19:55 pm
content: Esto lo he probado y aun permanecían los errores, quité los dos terminadores. Una pregunta, según le manual técnico, el terminador pasivo (paso una foto), los conectores 2 y 4 (cable verde y amarillo) bus de datos del ARM, solo lleva dos resistencias que serían en total 150 Ohm. Si pongo una resistencia de 150 Ohm sería la misma función que el nuevo modelo de terminadores pasivos del mercado?I have tried this and the errors still remained, I removed the two terminators. One question, according to the technical manual, the passive terminator (I put a photo), connectors 2 and 4 (green and yellow cable) ARM data bus, only has two resistors that would be a total of 150 Ohm. If I put a 150 Ohm resistor, would it have the same function as the new model of passive terminators on the market?

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 01:28:59 pm
content: With both terminators out it won't work. I have seen occasions where both were bad too.Give the 150R resistor a try, you have nothing to lose, it won't hurt anything.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 01:32:09 pm
content: ok perfect, I'm going to try it and let you know. thank you very much friend

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 01:57:31 pm
content: I might have jumped the gun on the terminators, it has been quite a few years since I worked on one of these now and my brain defrag has been disposing of unused info to make space for new stuff!When there is a terminator problem causing the comms to go bad, the only fault codes you get are ICU faults and that will be no comms to trans, arm, pto, engine etc.If you have the other controllers just reporting that the armrest is offline, then it is likely that there is a fault with the armrest.You mentioned 16mhz xtal, this must be the older controller, I never had any problems with that version, but may have only had one tractor with one, so my sample size was pretty small! Perhaps the program has gone corrupt? Something not right with the CAN chip on the armrest? I guess you don't have any access to another tractor that you can plug this armrest into just to be sure it is that? It doesn't need to be the exact same model, just use that style armrest.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 02:14:25 pm
content: Gracias por su respuesta. Voy a subir una foto del reposabrazos y del terminador para que vean como son. Lamentablemente no tengo otro reposabrazos de nadie para poder probar y hacer un descarte. Los códigos, todos no tienen comunicación con el ARM, ese es el error que dan todos, y el ARM directamente no tiene conexión con la UCI. Por eso, no se si es la tarjeta la que está defectuosa o son los terminadores los que están defectuosos y me anulan la comunicación.Thanks for your reply. I'm going to upload a photo of the armrest and the terminator so you can see what they look like. Unfortunately I don't have another armrest from anyone to be able to try and discard. The codes, all of them have no communication with the ARM, that is the error they all give, and the ARM directly has no connection with the UCI. For this reason, I don't know if it is the card that is defective or it is the terminators that are defective and cancel my communication.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 02:24:39 pm
content: De la memoria programable salen los datos para el multiplexor (A) y del multiplexor (ref. An82527) sigue hasta el IC (B) (ref.PCA82C250T), desde ahí va directo hasta los BUS DATOS para las ICU. el voltaje en estos dos BUS son los descritos como correctos por el manual técnico 2.5 voltios. Si el fallo persiste le voy a poner el multiplexor nuevo y el IC siguiente, porque de ser la memoria corrupta no parpadearía el led verde según el manual técnico. (la luz led parpadea).The data for the multiplexer (A) comes from the programmable memory and from the multiplexer (ref. An82527) it continues to the IC (B) (ref.PCA82C250T), from there it goes directly to the DATA BUS for the ICU. the voltage on these two BUSes are those described as correct by the technical manual 2.5 volts. If the fault persists, I am going to put the new multiplexer and the next IC, because if the memory is corrupt, the green LED would not blink according to the technical manual. (the led light flashes).

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 10:46:02 pm
content: It sounds feasible.I would attempt to trace the data lines in/out with a scope to make sure the data is coming and going, but in the absence of that test gear, replacing the parts on the data path should do the job. I think you are right about he program memory and flashing light.Also, just check at the armrest plug if you have not already, pull on all the wires to ensure that you don't have a wire where the copper is broken internally making only intermittent contact.Good luck with it, let us know if you solve it and what it was.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2022, 02:48:08 pm
content: Hola amigos, al final he comprado un osciloscopio, el HantekDSO2D15, también he estudiado el protocolo CAN BUS al completo, que es el empleado en este tractor. ya solo me queda desplazarme al lugar del tractor y comenzar todo el análisis para determinar de donde proviene el problema, de ser en el controlador del reposabrazos, pues intentaré reparar la tarjeta electrónica. Cuando vaya teniendo nueva información la expondré aquí para que sirva de ayuda a los demás compañeros.Hello friends, in the end I have bought an oscilloscope, the HantekDSO2D15, I have also studied the entire CAN BUS protocol, which is the one used in this tractor. Only have to go to the place of the tractor and start all the analysis to determine where the problem comes from, if it is in the armrest controller, then I will try to repair the electronic card. When I have new information I will post it here to help other colleagues.

author: Robert_PL
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 03:48:47 pm
content: Witam.CiągnikNew Holland TG 285Mam problem z ARM.Komunikaty z wyświetlacza:1. ARM FAULT2. Minimum ThrottleBłędy Arm:1089, 1049, 1109, 1069, 1059Pozostałe moduły informują o problemach z komunikacją CAN z ARMCiągnik nie przełącza biegów. Jeździ wyłącznie na 7 biegu do przodu i 2 biegu do tyłu.Nie działa manetka zwiększania prędkościNie działa przycisk 4x4Nie działa przycisk podnośnikaZasilanie i masa jest OKSygnał CAN jest OK 2.4 V oraz 2.5 VKable są OKDioda migaTerminatory CAN zmienione na nowy model, oryginalne, 2 sztukiWedług mnie ARM posiada wewnętrzną usterkęCo należy naprawić lub wymienić ?Jak rozwiązać ten problem ?Proszę o radę

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 11:01:56 am
content: Quote from: Robert_PL on August 31, 2022, 03:48:47 pmHi Robert,That is another one of those old style Arm controllers that I think I only had one of and never had any issues with it.It could well be a problem with the CAN communications interface of the armrest controller. When you retrieve faults are those faults you listed actually from the "arm" controller? Or does the instrument cluster report a communications fault?The Throttle, gear up/down and all the other functions are through the armrest controller, so if it has a communications problem, they will not work. The actual Fwd and Rev function is connected separately, hence why it still works.Does heating the board with hot air have any effect?Do any of the functions on the armrest work?(apart from fwd/rev)

author: Robert_PL
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 03:25:34 pm
content: Witam SMdude,Dziękuję za Twoją uwagę1. Kiedy jest problem z komunikacją, ARM zgłasza następujące kody:1049, 1109, 19, 1069, 79, 69, 1059, 1089,2. Panel oprzyrządowania zgłasza błąd 12011 (Błąd komunikacji jednostki ARM)Pozostałe moduły też zgłaszają problem z komunikacją z ARM3. Funkcje działające ARM:a) Blokada mostub) Potencjometr głębokościc) Potencjometr czułościd) Wałek odbioru mocye) Wszystkie dźwignie układu hydraulicznegof) Zmiana kierunku jazdy4. Funkcje niedziałające ARM:a) Włącznik podnoszenia i opuszczania ramion podnośnikab) Napęd 4x4c) Przycisk automatycznego trybu jazdyd) Przełącznik biegówe) Dźwignia prędkości silnika5. Podgrzałem dzisiaj układ elektroniczny ARM ciepłym powietrzemPo około 15 minutach, komunikacja powróciła i układ działa prawidłowoBiegi włączają sięNie wiem czy ta operacja pomogła na ten problem, czy to przypadekNie wiem jak długo będzie dobrzeBywa tak że ciągnik pracuje prawidłowo 2 tygodnie, a później 3 dni jest problem

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 11:40:56 am
content: Quote from: Robert_PL on September 01, 2022, 03:25:34 pmOh yes, I love it when you get intermittent problems that just come good and then play up at some point later on!Looking at all the functions that are not operating properly, they all depend on the alternator "signal" wire.The communications fault with the armrest is a bit odd, as you are able to retrieve faults through the instrument cluster from the armrest, so the instrument cluster is able to communicate with the armrest, even though it displays this fault.Only other thing with this series was when the batteries are low, or low cranking amps, or bad connections between the starter and batteries, including where the battery terminal is molded to the cable, or a bad starter drawing too many amps. This causes the voltage to drop too low during cranking and then all manner of weird faults will display. Normally though you can run the engine for a minute or so to put surface charge on the batteries then restart and away it would go. Jump-starting also worked.Normally when applying heat to make something work, it will work in the first minute or so once the parts are hot to touch.

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 09:24:37 pm
content: Hola amigos, pues os puedo comunicar que acabo de arreglar el controlador ARM del case MX180, que es igual que el New Holland TG, el problema lo tenía en la tarjeta de ARM, que tenía bastantes componentes en mal estado, desde ICs hasta resistencias y condensadores cerámicos. Me costo trabajo porque tuve que estudiar el funcionamiento del protocolo CAN BUS, para conocer el funcionamiento de las ICU.Hello friends, well, I can tell you that I just fixed the ARM controller of the MX180 case, which is the same as the New Holland TG, the problem was in the ARM card, which had many components in poor condition, from ICs to resistors and ceramic capacitors. It cost me work because I had to study the operation of the CAN BUS protocol, to know the operation of the ICUs.

author: Robert_PL
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 09:04:36 am
content: Witajcie.Chciałem podziękować koledze maikelrf89 oraz SMdude za zainteresowanie tym tematem oraz wskazówki przy naprawieW moim przypadku, zdecydowałem się zakupić używany ARM od innego ciągnikaUdało mi się odszukać kompletny ARM od modelu TG, tak jak mój ciągnikPo zamontowaniu i skalibrowaniu ARM, ciągnik pracuje prawidłowoUpłyną już miesiąc czasu i ciągnik działa prawidłowoZaryzykowałem ale udało sięPodsumowując, moduł ARM posiada wewnętrzną usterkę elektroniczną, która powoduje wiele problemów w ciągniku

author: maikelrf89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 11:47:43 am
content: Witaj Roberto, czy mógłbyś podać zdjęcie tablicy, którą miałeś? Jaki masz model New Holland TG? Z ciekawości, ile kosztował cię używany ARM?Hola Roberto, podrías pasar una foto de la placa que tenías? que modelo de New Holland TG tienes? por curiosidad que te costo el ARM de segunda mano?Hello Roberto, could you pass a photo of the plate you had? What model of New Holland TG do you have? Out of curiosity, how much did the second-hand ARM cost you?