New soldering station recommendations? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: masterpj55
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 09:27:24 am
content: Hi Everyone,So I have a seperate hot air reflow gun (Atten 858D+) and a desoldering pistol (ZD-8915) both are excellent gear.Long before that I bought a soldering and desoldering station that had a desoldering pen (with vacuum) called the Xytronic LF-8800 .. Not only were it's tips hard to get but it's small diameter (pen type) soldering handle would get very hot and the de-soldering pen that was on the other half of the unit would clog very easily no matter what I tried.The Xytronic is a large unit and took up a lot of space on my desk, especially since I only started using it for it's soldering iron.. the tips were annoying to swap and when my tips wore out I decided not to buy new tips for it.So I'm looking for a soldering station that works well and has easy to purchase and a wide range of tips (at a affordable price).I was wondering if people have a recommendations.I had my eyes on the following so far:1. V2.1S T12 from banggood (https://www.banggood.com/V2_1S-T12-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Soldering-Station-Electric-Soldering-Iron-Tips-T12-K-907-Handle-p-1338117.html?cur_warehouse=CZ) since it has easy to swap tips and the cost is great! Although I am aware you need to modify it a bit to make it safer with earthing. The knock off hakko tips that are easy to swap are also very easy to order through banggood.2. Buying a Hakko FX888D on ebay and using genuine or knock off hakko tips.I don't like the colors of the unit but functionality wins over looks and it's a quite proven soldering station at an "ok price"

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:59:07 pm
content: hi,I like better the first one, the claimed 'Excellent thermal recovery' of that HAKKO FX-888D seems cheap marketing, it's just some sl30 old solomon iron tip.but make no mistake, the 2 are 'bas de gamme' as the french sayyou want good ones, tha's another story

author: masterpj55
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 02:46:43 pm
content: What would a more medium end end up costing?And which ones should I be looking at? an important thing is a wide range and tip availability.

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 05:30:45 pm
content: I got finally JBC CD-2BQE and another diy controlled by some atmega board with sl30 iron, but I can put any 'classic' iron, the software can adapt, and a portable sl30 with 12-24Vdc supply for portable soldering, the last one is r&d in a company I workedI got tired of strugling with big radiators and big ground planes, that's why JBC entered.but it's not cheap, +- up to 400eurhttps://eleshop.eu/jbc-cd-2bqf-soldeerstation-140watt.htmldepends on where you buyseemed the best price/quality, I love metcal but they cost more (I worked with metcals, they are the Ferrari in this area, if you can throw your money, buy one, is the same as changing from dacia to mercedes)but with low cost ones, you have to settle with some little issues with big ground planes, or use 2 irons at onceweller hakko, never liked them, I worked with weller 4 1/2 years, shitty performance for double price, basically you pay the stickertips, you can get for almost any variant, but anyway you will use 2-3 sizes like 0.8-1 conic and maube one blade and another smaller conic one. maybe...the thing is his thermal performance to put up the heat when you want, that's happening only with metcal/jbc and other based on rf tips, in this area under 400eorus there is nothing to buy other than a chinese copy who will dissapoint you for sure

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 05:56:51 pm
content: Be careful buying Hakko on eBay. Some of them are reportedly not genuine.I bought 4 from Hakko itself. I'm very satisfied with them.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 12:35:09 am
content: Quote from: masterpj55 on February 12, 2021, 02:46:43 pmI've worked with Weller, Metcal and another one I can't remember the name of. This mostly for maintenance / repair type work and and a bit of building at home. I'm going to ruffle a few feathers and simply say for the basic stuff, the sticker on the iron makes little difference. That is you can buy just about any mainstream soldering station and be happy with it. That is as long as you use it within the iron capability power wise. Which brings up another issue; one iron usually isn't enough.In any event I think you are going about this the wrong way. find a dealer like Digikey in your country and make a selection from the suppliers they offer. Why? Service really, if you need a new tip (or whatever) there is nothing better than getting it the next day delivered. so choose an iron & station that is well supported by the vendor. They should "STOCK" the entire line of tips and cartridges for example. There is some stuff I don't Mind buying from China, especially some of the start up manufactures, but something line a soldering station that requires maintenance and parts it is likely better to buy form a local supplier. This simply for quick access to maintenance parts.Now that being said I've personally have had good luck with Weller's and especially like the models with easy temp setability. Easy controls are a big win for me, some of the manufactures have very fiddly controls (probably to prevent operator adjustments), so for personal use go with easy to adjust. Due to big hands I prefer the bigger bodies / handles on the irons. So along those lines maybe a Weller WE1010NA or similar under $150. I don't see a reason to spend more for a general purpose soldering station. Now you can spend a lot more for a JBC or similar unit but you really would have to justify it some how. There is a huge difference in my opinion between a tool for high density SMD work and one trying to be a do all tool.This is where we come back to the idea that you will likely need more than one iron type as some point in the future. It could be a much higher wattage or it could be for a pencil like device for very fine SMD work. However it is very likely that a general purpose iron is a good fit to start with.Oh one other thing, I sometimes have to pick up the station and use it in the field. If you can find a station where the iron stand is built in, that can be a huge advantage. This even if you use a separate stand on the bench. I'm not sure if anybody offers such today, it has been a few years since ordering a station.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 01:22:04 am
content: The T12 clones often come without a stand. The handles are dirt cheap and not up to the quality or reliability of major brands. But for ease of use and heating speed cartridge based stations have their advantages. Safety and esd safety is questionable. So it's only performance/price in it's category.Though an old design the Hakko FX888D is intrinsically safe, esd safe, well made and genuine tips are affordable. I'm confidant it would outlast most Chinese stations. Ease of use is not so great. So quality/reliability/performance/price in it's category.There are also more expensive JBC clones but it's a mixed bag and aside from the ethics I would be hesitant to buy too heavily into imitation Chinese domestically produced products. I'll use fake Rolex watches as an analogy, there are genuine watches that cost 20K. They make fakes for $20 but sell that same watch for $50, $100, $200, $500 to the unwary because of the perceived value of the original. It still works like a watch but materials, performance, reliability and ethics are all questionable.

author: masterpj55
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 02:08:20 am
content: that ESD safe is a big one.I wouldnt want a laser diode or a component to fail due to ESD generated by the soldering iron itself.I'm planning to do basic through hole stuff and SMD work both under a microscope and non (so small components).Most electronics shops have shut down here in favour of online stores and many local companies either stock a product temporarly or only sell the soldering iron.However big brand tips usually seem easier to get like hakko and weller since their brands are so common.T12s handle actually looked much better then the pen type xytronic I have which is just an entire plastickey feelinmg handle.. It would be able to hold it but after a while it would be close to uncomfortable to near "auch I might not wanna hold this" heat.What massively appealed to me was the easy to swap cartridges/tips while the tip is still heated with a special thermally isolating pad.. which is nice if you are doing many different sized components in a full run. I have a soldering stand from my past soldering station and some other soldering station.. no chance it will hold and fit but willing to risk.The hakko FX888D was indeed appealing because it's a proven product by a reputable brand just like PACE and weller is and I believe these companies also incentivize companies stocking their tipsWould you know a newer hakko model that also uses affordable tips since you mentioned it's ease of use is not so great. I saw cheap soldering stations using hakko tips but ESD safety comes into question again or their ability to provide enough current.(Weller WE1010NA looks really great.. will check about where I can get tips and what their cost per is, gladly amazon sells it and amazon also sells tips (all be it china made tips as they list it)

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 04:13:27 am
content: I had a Weller WES 50 for decades it worked well, later "upgraded" to a WE1010NA. After listening to the rant of the safety problems with the lack of a primary fuse on the WE1010NA I added one using the WES 50. The after using WE1010NA a few times I find it not much better than the much older WES50. It has a little more power (not noticeable) , but other than that setting the temp harder and IMO the sleep mode, the WES50 doesn't have, is almost worthless. The sleep mode is only useful if you set the timer to such a long time that it won't happen very often. Because the time to heat is up is painfully slow and to wake it up you have to press a button. I got pissed off many times when I went to solder only to find out the iron was cold and I had to hit a button. The sleep feature is only useful in case you leave it on overnight or during lunch break.Then I read about newer direct heating irons and bought a KSGER clone T12 iron. It needed work to make it safe and I used the WE1010NA to do the job. After fixing its safety issues it is my go to iron. Heats up more than 2 times faster, sleep mode actually useful, waking up as soon as you move the handle and < 8 seconds. The tip to handle distance is also less.I use only genuine Weller or Hakko tips, many to choose from from many vendors. If I didn't want to fix a T12 clone, I would get a Pace over the Weller. Made it USA, many tips, more power. JBC nice but more $ and I don't think I would need the greater power.

author: masterpj55
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 10:57:37 am
content: finding tips for PACE is hard unless you are in the USA.Ill check what it takes to make the T12 safer.. it is a really appealing deal. The amount of tips is quite varied but far as good as the weller set.The lack of a primairy fuse at a price point like that weller has is quite.. shocking actually

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 11:31:57 am
content: Others may chime in, but I also used a Hakko FR301 to remove the heatsink on the Ksger to add more clearance and between the heaksink and mains PCB trace. Without the FR301 it may be hard to remove the heatsink. Maybe it can be done with a soldering iron and wick. There are two pins and the headsink sucks up a lot of heat.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 03:58:29 pm
content: Quote from: masterpj55 on February 13, 2021, 10:57:37 amFarnell carries Pace pretty much worldwide.

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 03:09:43 pm
content: for me, pace comes long after the jbc I mentioned, it just take 5 min to look at the compair here on eevblog between those two, but it's true with pace you cut some expense

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 02:56:17 pm
content: “Some” is an understatement. JBC carries a spectacularly wide array of tips, but at €30+ each, the cost of tips becomes a real issue. Pace tips start at about 1/3 of that, and last longer.Also, while JBC build quality is by no means bad, Pace is better: JBC is mostly plastic. Pace is all metal.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 03:10:38 pm
content: A certain forum owner owns both.. I wonder if that's the reason the Pace is his daily driver?

author: andersthuresson
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 01:37:16 pm
content: I have been using Weller and Ersa mostly in my daily work. I am getting old so I have been working with Weller for many years and always been happy. Just a week ago I did a bit of a hasty deal at Amazon and got the WE1010 but didn't think carefully and ended up with a 120V unit. I need 220V where I live. It's my own stupid mistake of course but see this as a friendly reminder not to make the same mistake as I did. I didn't really decide what to do with the WE1010 now. I can either try to find a suitable 220/24 - 100W transformer that fit in the Weller or get a step down transformer, which I really don't like. Then I saw the videos that Dave put up from some years ago where he turned a WE1010 into a BBQ and it gave me second thoughts. I finally decided to buy a Hakko FX-888D from a local supplier. It seems to be decent and good value for money.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 12:45:54 am
content: Everyone has a story.I started with a Weller WESD51. Thought it was pretty good. Given all the talk here about the Hakko FX888D I gave it a try.Probably mostly due to the extra watts the Hakko provided a better soldering experience. Over time as I got further into soldering (especially when a microscope showed up), the Hakko kept doing the job well and it when I could see the parts and the pads better I started experimenting with more tips. With Hakko, depending on you your geography and choice of suppliers, there are probably lots of sources of tips. I try to avoid clones; the prices for authentic tips are pretty reasonable.Along the way as I could see better with the microscope and as I used more tips (as appropriate for each project) my soldering got better - not great, but definitely better.At this point, I can start to see/understand some of the reasons why someone might want to spend more on a soldering station - but mostly only for higher volume soldering. From the many posts here it seems like the next step up would be to go with a bigger/better Hakko or a Pace. My guess is if you do a lot of soldering the Pace might be the winner, especially if you have access to their tips at some reasonable prices. You could say why does it make sense to pay 2-3x more than the 888 and the answer would be it might or might not - depends on your volume of soldering and your budget. The extra funds might better go toward something else on your bench, or maybe when you look at a bench full of equipment (maybe several years down the road), maybe the extra investment in a Pace is not going to be that much on a percentage basis.Net, net: If you solder an hour or two here and there I'd say you will likely be happy with the Hakko 888. If you solder for several hours per day on most days (or for a living), I'd probably go for a Pace. Based on what you described I think you will like the Hakko; sounds like the Hakko colors are one of your biggest concerns. Fwiw, I didn't care much for the purple and yellow but now I hardly notice.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 01:46:08 am
content: I never thought I would see soldering snobbery, but if I was going to see it I guess it would have to be on EEVBlog.You don't need to spend huge bucks for hobby soldering and I think some facts would be more useful than opinions about prestige. Here are my thoughts, I hope they help a bit.First, I personally wouldn't buy any no-name junk or knockoffs, even though some have gotten them to work pretty well. It's just hit-and-miss and if you aren't experienced, you aren't going to know if your soldering troubles are caused by crap equipment, crap solder or your crap skills.If you eliminate the first two by buying known quality right off the bat, you may find out that your skills aren't that bad. That's a lesson I learned long ago when I was convinced that I couldn't solder to save my life and I wondered how others did it.The Hakko is good enough to start out with for quite a while. I highly recommend you use only Hakko tips as I've tried the knock-offs and they suck. The genuine tips are typically $6-7 and have a decent array of types. I would consider the FX-888 types to be the minimum level of station that I would like to work with--good enough for most things, but of course there is better. The two main shortcomings, if you can call them that, are that the power output is 'only' 65W and that the temperature sensor is in the ceramic heater element, not the tip. The iron heats up quickly enough for all but the most impatient, but temp control is not going to be quite as good. IOW, you need to turn up the heat when doing especially large jobs and some things are going to be more difficult without some preheating. That's what $100 gets you.The next (big) step up in my book is the Pace ADS200. Well-made in the US, 120W power, sensor in the tip and lots of tips at prices so that you can actually afford to buy a few. Very reasonably priced for what it is -- $369 for a bundle with 3 tips.From there the sky is the limit. For example:https://paceworldwide.com/prc2000-miniature-microminiature-electronic-repairIf you have nothing or next to nothing now and you don't want to spend big bucks, just get the FX888D (or a good used FX888 if you can find one) and some bevel tips. I think you'll probably be very happy, and if you do want to move up for some reason, you can resell the FX888D quite easily.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 10:17:41 pm
content: I use a really old Pace station with a pump in it. It takes irons that have 120V three prong plugs. No sensitemp.I think it is just great and you can use all sorts of irons with it. I use several old Unger (bought by Weller) as well as Pace hand pieces. So you can have Irons that have more or less heat for different jobs. And different sizes.Biggest problem is the solder sucker, it works very well but it is more expensive than the whole unit cost me, but I guess that is true no matter what unit you get.