longest continuously manufactured electronic test instrument? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 09:33:16 pm
content: Nominations?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 09:43:38 pm
content: moving coil meter

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 09:49:11 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on September 13, 2024, 09:43:38 pmBrand and complete instrument is what I had in mind.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:28:17 pm
content: The Fluke 73 DMM has been around a long time. It won’t be the longest, but it is worth a mention.

author: 1audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:32:02 pm
content: In current production or over the last 150 years? I believe the HP200CD was in production from 1952 to 1985. I suspect some GR instruments had a longer market life. Fluke 720 is still in production and was introduced in 1969. And then some items (precision terminations, probes, TVC's etc.) would be unchanged for decades. For some of these the total maket is small and then they last forever killing off your market (e.g. Fluke 720).

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:34:11 pm
content: The Bird 43 wattmeter has been in production for many decades.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on September 13, 2024, 09:33:16 pmWith or without version changes or updates? The Simpson 260 was first introduced in 1936 IIRC and is still made today in a very similar form to the original.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:47:10 pm
content: Simpson 260 series has been in production for about 90 years.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 10:59:50 pm
content: The AVO 8 was made from 1951 to 2008. The AVO 7 was made from 1936 to 1986.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 11:56:10 pm
content: I also am of the opinion that the Simpson 260 is the champ. It has had several iterations, but its basic functionality and definitely its shape, is the same.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 12:19:56 am
content: I agree it may be the Avo (in all iterations) or the Simpson 260.We know it cannot be an HP/Keysight, FLuke or Siglent. And VOMs were what made mass electronics possible.And China was still finding its way even in the 1940s.Anything from Japan, Russia, Germany or Italy?Who made the earliest mass produced VOM?

author: 1audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 01:22:00 am
content: While the name and model exist there are some major differences. At what point is it the same in name only? Is that important?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 02:44:03 am
content: Quote from: 1audio on September 14, 2024, 01:22:00 amThere were some obvious physical differences between the very first model and the second that came out in the 1940s, but after that the 2nd through 8th (current) models all appear very similar. The ratings and maximum voltages have declined to accomodate modern safety notions but there really aren't any other major functional differences over the past 80 years or so.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 02:54:10 am
content: Incandescent bulb?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 04:16:29 am
content: The single phase AC induction wattmeter of General Electric can probably give the Simpson a run for its money. I don't have an accurate history, but they started sometime around 1900 and I have a new production one made in the 2010s. The ones I have seen from roughly 1950 look the same as the current build, but I don't know when that form was first manufactured.

author: blue_lateral
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 08:52:49 am
content: The Simpson 260 is a good guess. If the criteria is same model, still looking the same, etc., I think we have to leave the first version (1939) out. It doesn't have the same cabinet type or look the same. The second version qualifies though. I'm not sure what year those started. 1949 sticks in my head for some reason. I have a second version with 1951 date codes in it. It is early enough to have no serial number, but I doubt it is the earliest.Simpson 260 (260-1 to 260-8) 1939-2024 85 yearsSimpson 260 (260-2 to 260-8) 1949(?)-2024 75(?) yearsI'll advocate for 75 years until someone corrects me on when the "series 2" dropped (I could be a little off). That's going to be a tough record to beat.EDIT: Make that 76 years, Radio's Master shows the old model in 1947 and the new one we are all familiar with in 1948. They are artists renditions so probably not definitive, but it's the best I've got.The Chinese have the MF-500 VOM, still in production today, looking like it always did, somewhere in-between an AVOmeter and a Simpson 260. Like the 260 there have been a plethora of versions, and very different internal construction over the years. It is difficult to nail down much info about them, but I doubt they could reach back far enough to challenge the 260. It might be close. The AVOmeter could come close if you include all of them, but I'm not sure that's fair because the specs changed a lot (Ohms per Volt especially) if you include more than one model that happen to look alike. 1936-2008 gets you 72 years. Not quite enough. Another contender or close runner up, depending on how you look at it would be the Triplett 630, beating Simpson by a year (1948-2024) if my 1949 guess is correct for the Simpson "260-2". The problem is the variation in 630s has been wide, and the new ones don't look much like the earliest ones. If you allow that, then you would have to include the first version Simpson 260, and Simpson still wins.The Fluke 8060a ran for at least 19 years (1982-2001). Can anyone beat that with another DMM?Among other long running test gear is the Tektronix 545. Introduced in 1955, and TekWiki says that last 545B was in 1973 (18 years), but I believe examples as late as 1978 have been found and last I knew it wasn't clear when production really ended.Then there is the HP 141T Spectrum Analyzer frame, from what 1971 to the mid or late 80s? Make that 1968 if you include the 141S with it's round screen and the same series of spectrum analyzer modules.Someone already mentioned the HP 200CD 1952-1985. I think that might have really been 1986?Weston had a long running small VOM, from the 30s to the 50s (maybe 60s?). The model number escapes me at the moment.How long did they make Wiggys?

author: Poroit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 09:10:40 am
content: Crompton Instruments

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 10:30:15 am
content: This site claims that the DT830 multimeter was introduced in 1983:https://zoyitools.com/the-most-comprehensive-explanation-the-differences-between-zoyi-and-zotek-and-zoteks-40-year-journey/

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 10:41:35 am
content: HP 478A thermistor mount, still listed on the Keyshite website, but not available to the EU (due to ROHS stupidity), it dates back to at least 1961, it's in the June 1961 HP journal.David

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 10:53:51 am
content: HP3458A, since 1989, i.e. 35yrs. and still in noteworthy volume.I was one of the first customers.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 03:34:58 pm
content: Quote from: blue_lateral on September 14, 2024, 08:52:49 amAS an aside, who in the world is the market for a new Simpson 260 at $500?

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 03:48:26 pm
content: Another long running piece of gear was the Tektronix 576 curve tracer: 1969-1990Quote from: watchmaker on September 14, 2024, 03:34:58 pmMaybe military techs who don't want to change the test procedure.

author: blue_lateral
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 05:35:05 pm
content: Railroad maybe? I understand there are also new purpose-built analog VOMs for the railroad. I can't imagine any normal electronics tech buying one now when used ones are cheap at hamswaps. I was never that enamored with the 260 back when we were all using VOMs, and sold the two I had around 1980. I have bought 2 nice used ones in recent years. They didn't cost much.The $500 price (and resultant sticker shock) is in my opinion just a throwback to the vacuum tube days when everything electronic was expensive and you had to save up for it. The 260 is still built in the US, and that always costs more. Someone may be able to make a DMM in the far east for about 3 cents now, but that doesn't make something like a 260 any cheaper to make.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 05:52:11 pm
content: If not the Simpson 260 I'd guess some model of neon mains tester from an old name, like Triplette ET050 or something to that effect.Or how long has Snap On sold a basic bulb in handle auto test light? E.G. EECT3HL. I'd assume that basic design is about as old as clear tool handles.I would assume the current production 260 mostly goes to military, maybe some industrial sales, easier to buy a $500 20k/V meter than rewrite everything for the different values a 10meg DMM can give in some cases.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 06:30:39 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on September 14, 2024, 03:34:58 pmThe Simpson 260 outperforms digital multimeters in a few areas, surprisingly. I have found techs and companies/industries that swear by it for field use in remote areas.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2024, 11:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on September 14, 2024, 05:52:11 pmDave has talked on this point more than once.This is very much the case. Test procedures can be very costly to produce, not to mention the (potentially) years of refinement that follow original issue. Not only that, but I imagine technicians will have developed their own notes in problem solving that will rely on the specific behaviour of the test equipment. There are times when a moving needle can tell you a lot more than a DMM.In those cases, spending $500 on a $100 class meter is cheap.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 12:46:34 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on September 14, 2024, 03:34:58 pmIf they were still alive, the same people that paid ~ $260 in circa 1970. When your livelihood, and possibility your life, depends on having the BEST, then people will pay extraordinary amounts for GOOD tools. I still have (IIRC) five Simpson 260s. Make that four 260s, the other is a 261. I don't use them very often but when I do, I know that I can trust them 100%. I can't say that about any other meter that I own, digital or analog.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 08:26:16 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on September 13, 2024, 09:33:16 pmIndex finger? Not terribly precise but it does provide both voltage and thermal information, can be easily manufactured using cheap labour, and has been around forever.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 12:15:50 pm
content: The changes are mostly in the appearance. The basic circuitry is very much the same with little things like circuit breakers vs fuse changed. I think an original meter movement and the latest one would interchange, at least functionally, if not physically.Simpson simply can't stop making it. They tried. The buyers, that's us, won't allow it.But then the Bird RF power meters are definitely in the running.Anybody have the official dates on any of these?Quote from: 1audio on September 14, 2024, 01:22:00 am

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2024, 12:31:18 pm
content: I gave away three Simpson 260s last year for cost of shipping. Then I watched a video on measuring behavior for transistor ckts where he used Simpsons to display the continuously varying of emitter and base currents. So I ebayed a Simpson 260 7M and a Simpson 260 8P; both for under $50.The 7M was spot on and the 8P only needed a minor adjustment (against my known Fluke 45 and 8842). And the continuity tester on the 8P is as fast as anything else I have (Agilent 1252/Fluke 27FM). And the tone goes down in Freq as Resistance increases. Cool.Problem is, as a watchmaker, I KNOW better than to sell good tools. At least the mirror scales are upgrades.And yes, I have a sickness.