28-channel audio connector - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 09:54:22 pm
content: It's satisfyingly chunky and mechanically sexy.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 10:38:46 pm
content: Ah a cute little 85 pin veam , brings back memory's of analogue days gone by, but they do make a satisfying click when joining them. . Anyone got the heart to tell him the pro audio world has gone digital ,the multi can be replaced with a bit of cat 5 and the patch bay/pre amp replaced by one 2u box.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 11:13:50 pm
content: Yeah for that amount of channels, I was thinking a MADI setup would make more sense. Very impressive analogue work though. I wouldn't be suprised if that cable setup alone was well over $3k. I went searching and found Amphenol makes a very similar looking connector @$400 for one piece, then you have 2x male pieces, 2x female pieces, plus all that patch cabling.....I've had a few ideas in the works for a similar but much smaller concept, where I need about 4 channels in a compact single cable connector. XLR 4+ pin is an obvious choice, but as the pin count goes up, the mechanical strength goes down and the number of connect/disconnect cycles before the pins start to deform goes down too.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 11:14:40 pm
content: Still keep a bunch of (48 channel) lk150 around here, replaced with madi over two shielded cat6 cables, although the stuff hasn't been used much lately...lk85 is a little more rugged vs lk150, same housing but bigger pins spaced further apart, but both aren't faultless.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 11:20:32 pm
content: Quote from: John B on July 09, 2020, 11:13:50 pm5 pin and up have smaller pins but still are pretty reliable if you use the Neutrik brand.Terminating a suitable cable in the plug is the challenging part as the maximum cable outer dimension remains limited.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 11:43:18 pm
content: QuoteIn the distant past we used 25 pin d subs for 8 channel multi's.Quotestill my weapon of choice for festival style quick turn arounds, but running them foh to stage?na

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 01:23:26 am
content: You discover new vocabulary the first time you successfully get all the pins in the insert for the second end of one of those cables, THEN see the CONNECTOR SHELL still sat on the bench laughing at you!EDAC sucks, but at least you can get the shells with the removable side panel for when this happens.Redundant MADI/Dante/AES67/ST2110-30 or the like, not going back!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 07:37:30 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 09, 2020, 10:38:46 pmYes, but where's the fun in that?

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 03:12:14 pm
content: Look at the other videos of the build...There is nothing done the easy way :pThe original Marble Machine was already amazing. I can't wait to see this one finished

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 04:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 09, 2020, 10:38:46 pmLatency with digital can be a nightmare with live audio. Seen a couple of vids where they are pulling out (what's left of) their hair. Some of the newer systems are swanky. Each band member gets their own mix of the sound in the 'phones and no more foldback problems.Edit: forgot I wanted to mention cat5 hates foot traffic. Hate to see how that guy deals with a broken wire in that monster loom. What if you leave no room for redundancy?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 04:33:20 pm
content: QuoteOnly really an issue with in ear monitors and badly designed systems.For FOH the distance from kick drum to speakers stacks is often longer than any digital latencyQuoteMore to do with the wider availability of cheaper inear packs,8 channel of monitors is still 8 channels of monitors whether their going to wedges or earsQuoteso do normal multis, thats why we use stuff like tourcat and try and keep it out the way of punters

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 04:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 11, 2020, 04:33:20 pmI've been wondering when someone will solve the problem going wireless between the FOH and the mixing desk. I'm mean there are solutions but nobody (afaik) is brave enough to trust over the air in the way a lead guitarist does now.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 05:33:02 pm
content: Quotewhen they can guarantee it will be 101% reliable,loosing the signal from the guitarist is an annoyance that can be quickly fixed by plugging in a wire,loosing every channel to and from FOH even briefly ?However its already available on the control side,most modern desks can be controlled from an app,great for setting up the system,and being able to stand beside the artist whilst setting up there monitors instead of shouting across a stage is great,however the lack of feedback from physical controls is the biggest drawback for me.Maybe if your doing sound down the pub for your mates band with your berhinger air ,controlled from a tablet,loosing control might not matter, working for named artist in front of 5000 punters who've paid much ££ to be there, would you take that risk.

author: Majorbob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 06:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on July 11, 2020, 03:12:14 pmThe whole project is "not the easy way"! 🤣 I've been following his build from the beginning and the difference in his engineering skills now from a couple of years ago is phenomenal. He's got a team of people now helping him with everything and he's taken on more of a project management role, loads of people have been helping for free where they can just out of their love for the project. It's a phenomenal effort.That cable goes into a custom unit and breaks out into individual channels on the other end just for his studio use, when the machine eventually gets taken on a world tour (which is the end goal) I do believe they are planning to use a digital solution.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 09:17:40 am
content: I've been following his machine build on and off, and it's pretty crazy the work he's put into it.Wireless can be a pita in A/V especially travelling. You don't know what kind of interference or other issues you can run into between buildings. The simpler the better. I can also see why you'd want to keep everything analog as much as possible up until the point it gets to the mixing board. There is less conversions or complex equipment involved that way and less failure points along the way.At my church we wanted to be able to project stuff from the AV booth but the logistics of getting a cable to where the projector was, was not easy, just because of where the sound booth was and where the projector was. We experimented with wireless HDMI and stuff but it just never really worked right. Like one day, it worked flawless, and there was something cool about being able to walk around with a laptop that is not tied to a wire, and it's actively projecting something on the big screen. But then the next day you go to use it, and for whatever reason it decides not to work. Could be a million things, but when service is starting in 5 minutes you don't have time to deal with that. We ended up going with a long throw projector that sits in the sound booth and projects to the big screen directly, and it solved our issues by being able to go wired.In something big like a concert where there could be thousands of people I can totally see wanting to keep stuff as simple as possible and avoiding wireless for major parts of the setup. Individual microphones is fine, if one mic fails you can improvise, but when your whole system fails, or something major like something being projected, then it's bad.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 05:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 09, 2020, 09:54:22 pmAnd that was how we did it on big stages with a hundred channels and splits between FOH and monitor world and all of that.The connectors were expensive but reliability was, and is, paramount.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 06:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on July 11, 2020, 04:45:01 pmThe top-shelf digital mixers have the brains (audio I/O, processing) in racks on the side of the stage, and the console is just a control surface.And there is already proof of concept that remote mixing is possible -- just look at the little Mackie mixers that use an iPad for control. I mean, I fuckinghatemixing on an iPad, because when I'm mixing, I look at the musicians and not the console, so if I have to look down to find the fader, I'm already late. So the tech rider says that's not acceptable. But hell -- I love having the iPad to go on stage and ring-out and set up monitor mixes, and it's great to be able to walk around the room with the iPad and tweak.So back to the control surface thing. The surface needs local I/O so we can patch in the goofy effects we like, and so we can have playback material for walk-in/between-set music. And absolutely a headphone amp and control-room outs for monitor speakers for cuing. (This last part is where the Mackie iPad mixer thing fails.)The Avid and DiGiCo and Midas and such consoles have MADI or Dante or other digital interface run from the console to the brains, and that interface includes support for the console I/O. Most of the traffic is control change messages, not audio, anyway.The real question -- will those of us who mix the acts "trust" a wireless connection between the consoles and the brains? Well, given that the RF environment is already ridiculously busy in many cities, finding enough open channels for wireless mics and in-ear-monitors is already a challenge. And then add to it the reality that at any time, Google or whomever will just buy the blocks of frequencies used by wireless production gear and obsolete it all overnight. I haven't mentioned latency, but to be honest I don't know whether that would be an issue.So it's not even a matter of trust. I see no particularly good reason why it's necessary to replace a few runs of inexpensive CAT-6 or coax with wireless transmitters and receivers for the whole show mix. Hell, in some cases, like outdoor festivals that are multi-day affairs, the crew will dig a trench between the stage and the FOH tent, bury the cable, and when the festival is over, just leave it there.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 08:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on July 13, 2020, 05:51:16 pmHere Harting connectors seem to be the norm