Reverse Engineering - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: WakeUpWolfgang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2012, 04:51:27 pm
content: Dave, can you do a video on reverse engineering? Nothing this big but something smaller like a PSU or a charger for the Transformer eee pad. I took apart the wall wart for? the TF101 Transformer and I was surprised at the amount of stuff in it. I would like to reverse engineer it so I can make a battery version of it so I can charge it on the go.I think this would be a good educational video and a fun one. I know it is a lot of work and take a long time but I can't seem to find and videos showing the entire process.

author: bpn1028
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2012, 01:39:42 pm
content: I too would love to see a video on how you go about reverse engineering as suggested in the "Blog Request" thread. I am particularly interested in what tools are used, where you start, etc. I think Dave would do an outstanding job explaining it. I really like all his blogs but my favorite blogs are the teaching videos he does like designing the Lab Power Supply series. I've got to imagine reverse engineering is an art and requires alot of knowledge and experience to do it. Dave seems to whip the Dave CADS out in no time so I am hoping he will share his techniques.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2012, 02:00:27 pm
content: Reverse Engineering usually is an art and form by itself, so hard to teach in fact it's actually easier to guide you through VHDL insteadTime to time i reverse engineer stuff i get from china to see if there's any potential flaw on the board or something so that if it blows up i know just what to do!(Yeah i did, a solder feeder i bought from china blew the fuse a few months ago and i saw a bit of blackening but after scanning through my schematic i check the zener, poof! Shorted. the zener blew and left a blackened spot)

author: xDR1TeK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 12:17:43 pm
content: A comparison between reverse engineering and VHDL in learning curve.Ok, that really bursts everyone's bubble.

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 12:34:19 pm
content: There are so many levels in reverse enginering that it's hard to make any simple explanation. Will it be hardware or software, depending the available documentation and tools/resources you'll have at the time.

author: xDR1TeK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 12:55:12 pm
content: mmm. what methods for multilayer boards?I can only hope there are bottom and top layers.However, most of the times, boards with few components (ICs) have multilayer boards.Unless few items are on a super small board.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 03:44:12 pm
content: You can learn the vhdl syntax in a few hours, but that does not make you a digital designer...You need experience and insight in how things work... And that requires time and amassing massive amounts of information and knowledge.Multilayer boards are easy. Sent them through an MRI. Plenty of companies in silicon valley can do that.I did a 12 layer board for a 385 pin BGA a couple of months ago. Found the pinout , found the i2c bus, used an agilent 9000 scope with protocol decoder to trap the comms and decode it. As this thing was running an open source os we got a hold of the driver source and then a collegue coder wrote a hook i to this driver so we could trap what got sent and when it got sent.After 3 weeks i had the pinout, the full control register map and measured efficiency of all the regulators and knew what they were used for. This one is for gps, that one for wifi , the 5 phase one for the cpu core etcetc. This thing had 21 linear regulators and 15 switchers of which 7 were two phase, 2 were 3 phase and one a 5 phase.

author: xDR1TeK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 04:08:08 pm
content: Can u imagine then my understanding of my failure now? I can't get through the design ofonevoltage controlled oscillator, and that is only drawing the time equations for steady control. Obviously some are challenged by resources; however, going through an MRI that is just happening to be sitting by!!! Now that is reaching, no i think if i ever looked at one beyond the reason of mentioning its name, then i might get physically assaulted.But seriously, how much time would it take for a complete reverse engineering of a PCB?

author: WakeUpWolfgang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2013, 03:09:23 am
content: I was thinking something easy for the first few videos to get started like a simple single sided board. Something like a cheap multimeter then if it becomes popular get more advance to multi layer boards

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2013, 06:54:12 pm
content: Single-sided is a bit too simple IMO... dual-sided would be optimal I think. With dual-sided, you need to be able to conceptualize the circuit without being able to see all of the traces involved - but you can still flip it over to verify your mental logic. And you don't have worry about subsurface traces.Reverse engineering something of any complexity is painstaking work though, at least if your goal is to fully analyze it and not just get a basic idea of what the circuit is doing.Something like the amplifier module boards in my home audio system that I recently repaired would have been perfect. These were two-layer, about 2" x 5". Combination of SMD and TH parts. Only one IC - a well-documented class-D amplifier chip. And very understandable board layout... even a beginner like myself was able to figure out how the various caps, resistors and inductors were being used in the output section for filtering. And how the amp inputs were being driven and powered. Even some auxiliary features such as a mute function. I was able to probe out all of the nets (including those bastard traces that get routed underneath the IC), and measure all of the passives. Didn't really need to, since I only needed to check cap esr to repair it, but it was a very educational exercise and well worth the time.Wish I had an extra of those module boards (the system uses six identical modules) - I would totally send it off to Dave for a reverse engineering video if I had one. Unfortunately, they aren't easy to find on their own eitherthey are several hundred $ on ebay when they (rarely) show up.