Why meters aren't beautifully designed those days? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:13:23 pm
content: I have repaired this month two of 50 y. old polish metters Meratronik V-640 for their beauty and features (DC up to 1500V, AC up to 1GHz etc. etc.), repaired 20 y. old (or more ?) Solartonic 7150 looking like taken from old James Bond/Fanthomas or Luis de Funes films. Next two french meters are on the way to me.If I look at Fluke 87V which is close to age of perviousely mentioned meters or new Brymen , or not yet released 121GW, or top Gossen meter ... they not look like a beaty , they also lacking many of features making them very unique. Stupid question - why it is so?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:18:06 pm
content: This thread is useless without pictures!

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:31:56 pm
content: The fact that shoppers will cross shop different vendors to save 0.01% on the purchase price probably has something to do with it.Engineering elegance can sometimes be free (or negative cost), but physical elegance is almost never free.

author: colorado.rob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:51:00 pm
content: It looks like you need to be an expert tanner, carpenter and blacksmith to restore one of those suckers. It's got that "1960's transistor radio" look to it. That's not my scene. I cannot imagine lugging one of those things around. Give me a modern, light-weight digital meter.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:01:03 pm
content: Just go with the flow, form follows function.

author: colorado.rob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:41:37 pm
content: IP67 rating just requires more mink oil.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:57:29 pm
content: Most multimeters today appear to be geared to look like a womans body with extended hips and bootyor ergonomically shaped to fit in the hand like a Macburger or big ****The manufacturers have obviously bought into the -follow the leader- 'sex sells' absurdity their coked closet perverts in the marketing department are flogging to half asleep CEOsI'll buy and use the meter that does the job, be it elegant, ugly, old school, whateverIf I need to display professionalism to clueless corporat clipboard wielders,I bring along the Flukes to help them achieve their tickbox check 0rgasms quickerand let me get on with the crummy JOB the 'last guy' -who works cheaper-, apparently screwed up BIG TIME

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 11:47:13 pm
content: I don't know that I agree, but this is highly subjective stuff. Personally I think 87V looks great. Wanting to cram all kinds of features on 87V misses the point of 87V. It's supposed to be a streamlined meter with quickly accessible features (except for the current measurement defaulting to AC is annoying for electronics). It's definitely a design where form follows function, some modern and not so modern bench DMMs also look great imo.Vintage Simpson Multimeters look great:

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 12:11:52 am
content: As beautiful as those old meters look, it probably can't take as much shock or water ingress as my modern-day non-beautiful Fluke 28-II. The new non-beautiful meters have a rubber surround that helps to absorb the impact, and of course, all the non-beauty makes for a cheaper meter with cheaper and modern day manufacturing techniques.I would much rather have a non-beautiful meter take the blow than a beautiful one. It's test gear, after all.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:33:07 am
content: The Fluke 87 and 28 are exempt from my previous blab above, they are practical modern meters for lab and field use87 was around before the eye candy and battery hogging BS started, and still one of my GO TO meters after 20 yearsAwesome hardware Muxr

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 04:52:33 am
content: If you want art, then buy art. Beauty in a tool or instrument is when it is made with great ergonomics, good user interface and is made to last. That is what makes a multimeter beautiful, not fashion colors and ornate design.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 05:34:06 am
content: For example lets look at his accuracy wise, this varies between 0.02-0.01% for most measurements(no ac voltage) which is inline with high end handhelds, now compare its size to those. Which would you rather carry around...I know my choice, not the esi...(almost bought one, dealer backed out)http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/esi/300pvborThe Gossen would be my choice.https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/resources/tt/hit30m/ba_gb.pdf

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 07:07:11 am
content: I think I know what you mean, but, OP, please post some pictures. Just finished restoring a 100 old Weston ammeter, still in spec. Let me shoot some photos...

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 07:16:13 am
content: Oh, not so fast please. Why modern meter cannot look like beauty and still be functinal / robust ? Whatever you want to have, but this funeral form or 'lady like' , this keeping me away from this meters. I use them because I have to, but if I can use other than those , I take beauty in place of 'brick' or 'coffin'.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 09:50:55 am
content: Some of us hear you MiroSI have an analogue AVO meter and a monster SANWA multimeter,not only do they look awesome and take up too much space in my lunchbox,I KNOW they will still work without batteries, be ACCURATE ENOUGH,and not require any more firmware updates, board revisions,or colorful 'anti-carpet surfing' components on the front endI also use them to check that my Fluke metersare not getting lazy on the job

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 10:52:19 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 15, 2017, 05:39:49 amDon't plan obsolescence based on longevity, if my Fluke experience is anything to go by, my 77 (Mk1) is still going strong, it was second hand when I bought it and I've owned it for 30 years I think.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:40:51 am
content: Quote from: Vgkid on June 15, 2017, 05:34:06 amI got one of those 30m on its way to me, my cousin in Germany is sending it.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:53:19 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 15, 2017, 11:29:07 amOuch, yeah, I may have read them but not remembered it was yours...Have to say, I don't like the much newer 179 I bought to allow me to retire the 77

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:49:01 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 15, 2017, 05:39:49 amHe used a Metrahit Ultra, not a 30M.Quote from: blueskull on June 15, 2017, 05:39:49 amAs an owner of a Fluke 27/FM, a former owner of a 179 and now with three Keysights in hand (1233A, 1273A and 1282A), I can tell the Fluke seems to be physically more rigid and with tighter tolerances on the rotary dial. How that translates to the physical survivability of the meter only time can tell. Electrical survivability is another story, as both brands have great front ends but as you travel further into the lower voltage electronics I can't help but imagine that its complexity starts to impact this factor (especially as you move higher in the food chain).

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:45:31 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 15, 2017, 05:39:49 amIn a serious 'knock down drag em out' real world lab and field usage and -abusage- , the current style Flukes will survive better in the long run, even the 289 with it's few annoyances.Every meter has it's quirks and bugs, I find the Flukes have the least to remember.FWIW since watching Mr JQS videos I no longer carpet surf with any meter!The Keysites are nice thoughif you can afford the batteries and security guards

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:56:59 pm
content: If you want horrid look at old HP gear. Like the 6023B dc power supply. Some stuff just looks like it was designed by a psychotic looking to kill someone.Imagine how bad the 34401A would look if the dark screen tint was only directly over the display.take an inch off both sides of the tint plastic and it suddenly looks like... i dont know how to even put it into words. the 5.5 digit meter HP made before it was also ultra horrid. 3478A... it looks like the HP34401A was a prostitute after a night of drinking and no makeup that is severely dehydrated.....

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 12:22:45 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 15, 2017, 11:55:22 pmI don't trust any battery products any more,I have a phone reminder that alerts me once a year to change smoke detector batteries and go through all battery driven devices and change if suspicious or near the use by date.I find some cheapies perform just as well as the hyped brands.I would suggest to store the Energizer packaging and receipt in case they do leak, so you have some ground to stand on and see if they pay out.Parking unused meters in a manner so the battery leaks away from the board gives you borrowed time tooHow about some of that clear screen protector stuff they put on mobile phones? should workI use clear all weather tape for years, not the greatest clarity, but does the job to protect the screen

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 02:03:18 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 16, 2017, 12:30:45 amyeah, good luck getting them to honor that...let's see how that goes for you...

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 02:21:11 am
content: Here is the thing I was cleaning up lately. I don't think modern instruments should look like steam punk, but in my book this is beautifully designed. Also whoever built it wasn't skimping on quality materials and craftsmanship. Who oxidizes brass purple-pink and uses matching woods? Only that and the magnifying glass cutoff to expose the polished internals probably increased the cost by 10%. It's also in spec after 100 years...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 09:02:52 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 16, 2017, 12:22:45 amYep. I'm a big fan of chopping up those screen protectors and sticking them on things.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 05:41:03 pm
content: Quote from: MiroS on June 14, 2017, 09:13:23 pmWell this entire question is based on accepting the premise that old meters were beautiful and modern ones aren't. But is that true?I happen to find lots of old gear rather hideous. Some is great, some I think they should have laid off the weed and acid while working on the industrial design. And the same applies today. For today's handhelds, I like Fluke and Brymen's designs. For bench, Rohde & Schwarz.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 07:31:15 am
content: Quote from: P90 on June 15, 2017, 11:40:51 amI was thinking about that movie "My Cousin Vinny", but that was in the US and not in Germany

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 07:40:15 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 16, 2017, 12:22:45 amWhy not try to protect the screen with a Titanium Anti-Scratch coating from Nano Armorhttp://www.nanoarmor.com.my/product/titanium-anti-scratch

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: P90 on June 16, 2017, 02:03:18 am"...under normal consumer usage."there's one loophole right therekeep that receipt and packaging if you want any chance for a payout on a trashed big dollars meter!and less likely having to explain that your 'normal' was their 'normal'but the batteries leaked anywayJust remembered that I've seen these Enerjizzzers leak BADLY in an insulation tester that took 6 AAsAll of them had crapped out badly, luckily the compartment was fairly well isolated,and I got a good meter CHEAP plus elbow grease expenses lol