Microwave Oven Door Design FAIL - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2017, 09:06:48 pm
content: I recently had to go shopping for a Microwave oven. There is a huge selection of makers and models available. However it seems like 90% have doors that are so difficult to open that you have to hold the oven in place while opening the door or the oven will slide out of place before the door opens.I've tried doors on about ten different ovens butonly one could be opened with one hand. This happened to be one with a handle but I've tried enough of both (handle/push-button) to see that most of them require 2 hands to open the door or else the oven slides around.I just don't understand how the basics get overlooked by the design and marketing folks.Sorry for the rant...but I find this really disappointing since these appliances have been around for almost a half century.-rastro

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2017, 09:57:13 pm
content: Just use some grease on the feet and glue them to the shelf, that works for most ovens, or just use some double sided tape to hold it in place. Most are made with almost the same latch mechanism for pull open, and a slightly modified one for push to open versions, so you are really out of luck unless you buy a pretty heavy one.

author: Fortran
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2017, 10:46:11 pm
content: Interesting. I don't think I've ever had or used a microwave I couldn't easily open one handed.Not even the super-flimsy cheapo one at work move when opened.I would have thought 1 in 10 would be bad.. not the other way around.

author: Don Hills
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 02:22:30 am
content: It wasn't a problem with the older microwaves with the several kilo lump of iron and copper behind the control panel.As has been suggested, use double sided tape, or Blutack, or similar.Avoid the rubber based matting that's often sold for putting under items on shelves to stop them sliding around. It has a tendency to perish over time and stick to the shelf.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 02:59:42 am
content: I noticed he same a few months back when looking for a new microwave. I cut down my list by looking at how well it opened one handed, if it moved on the shelf, I looked at the next model.Yes, blutack or double sided tape should fix it, but that's fixing a stupid problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 03:38:06 am
content: 2 things in the formula... 1st the classic safety that the door cant accidentally opened while in operation... 2nd is the modern formula that everybody want a sleek apple corner or star trek look, hence nobody want to buy oven with a turnable big round n ugly door knob on the oven door anymore.. With this 2 formula combined in one product what do we have? an eligible entry for the darwin award..

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 03:56:30 am
content: If you get one with a push button open you can back it up against the wall. These are fairly common. Or go over the range because those are bolted into place.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 03:57:28 am
content: Quote from: Don Hills on September 25, 2017, 02:22:30 amThis is likely the problem. It is the demise of the microwave oven transformer and its replacement with some kind of electronic switched mode gizmo.

author: bjcuizon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 03:58:45 am
content: Quote from: Don Hills on September 25, 2017, 02:22:30 amYes, we put one of those rubber non-slip mats under our µWave Oven and a year later it looked liked scattered rice grains.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 05:53:49 am
content: Made in China

author: bjcuizon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 06:11:06 am
content: Quote from: strawberry on September 25, 2017, 05:53:49 amYep, Simply made in China. Maybe some sellers will put a label on the back "NOTMADE IN THE USA"

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 06:38:07 am
content: Amusing that this happens, while some cheap products have weights inside them to make them feel heavier...

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 05:42:31 pm
content: Quote from: PTR_1275 on September 25, 2017, 02:59:42 amEXACTLY!I appreciate all the helpful solutions. The fact that this problem seems so commonplace indicates that the vendors and producers are completely out of touch with the customer and the user experience.-rastro

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 05:51:09 pm
content: that's why you place your thumb on the panel with the buttons next to the door and use your other fingers to open it, this way you are using your thumb to apply pressure against the microwave so it won't come with you trying to open the door.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 06:37:50 pm
content: You can get over the counter microwaves with a metal shelf. Chance of customer using the shelf? Very low. Why have it? Given the choice, the customer thinks they need the shelf and pays more. There used to be push button handles that solved the door opening problem. Why did they go away? Customers would forget to push the button and break the plastic interlocks. Having been in the repair industry over 35 years I can tell you I have seen the evolution of these machines. This is less of the design being forced on the customer as customer driving design. When I helped my mother pick out one, we got one that could open with a push button and, if backed against the wall, didn't move.There are many things that drive design. What the customer will buy is a huge factor.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 08:39:43 pm
content: Quote from: hermit on September 25, 2017, 06:37:50 pmOur microwaves in the office have a push button door release, but there is no handle on the door to pull, so you cannot open the door any other way.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 10:07:29 pm
content: We've done the over the stove model for 15-20 years so they are fixed in place and not wasting counter space either.

author: Jidis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 11:27:52 pm
content: I had to replace one of the door switches in our last one not long ago (Panasonic). Nice to know it has the ability to do that toitselfunder normal use, though people here do have a tendency to bake potatoes or something in it where it has to run a bit too hot for a bit too long.My issue with that latching stuff is that many of them have that "sticky plastic" feel as they age where it feels like the grease on the internal mechanics has dried up or something and you fear you're going to break something to push the button past the stick point. The modern skimpy weight you guys are talking about doesn't help much there either.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 04:13:12 am
content: Quote from: IanB on September 25, 2017, 08:39:43 pmI mean a push button ON the handle. You grabbed the handle and pushed the button with your thumb.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 04:47:48 am
content: Quote from: hermit on September 26, 2017, 04:13:12 amOK, but that's just poor design. What fool would design a door that way? It's not the customers' fault that that design was unreliable.I've seen people break the latch on a real, full-sized door when they absentmindedly forgot that the door was locked and yanked it open. If people can do that to a proper door, imagine what they can do to a flimsy plastic thing on a microwave.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 05:09:34 am
content: Quote from: IanB on September 26, 2017, 04:47:48 amWell, that is the point. It was one handed operation and people broke it so now we have microwaves that move when you try and open them. There was nothing wrong with the pushbutton design other than customers just yanking the doors open. Is adding 50 pounds to a microwave so it doesn't move better design? Remember, for safety reasons these doors have three interlocks.When the US government decided all ranges had to have some way to lock range burner controls to a positive off position the industry went to 'push to turn' switches and the customers immediately began breaking knobs. I had a dealer ask me to admit it was planned obsolescence by the industry. I pointed out the government regulations and asked him if he'd rather see them breaking off control shafts.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 05:35:59 am
content: Quote from: hermit on September 26, 2017, 05:09:34 amBut as I mentioned above, what was wrong with the design was putting the pushbutton on the handle instead of next to the handle. The microwaves with the pushbutton on the microwave chassis work fine. You push the button, the door opens. There is no handle on the door to pull.

author: Kevman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 03:16:53 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on September 26, 2017, 04:47:48 amMy grandmother's microwave worked like this, but if you didn't push the button and pulled it, it opened anyway without damage. The button just made it easier.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 03:51:07 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on September 26, 2017, 05:35:59 amBut now you have a moving microwave which is the 'problem' being discussed. The pushbutton has to be strong enough to push the pawls up over the catch. I just set mine against the wall myself.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 03:54:09 pm
content: Quote from: Kevman on September 26, 2017, 03:16:53 pmTake it from someone that replaced a lot of handles that had been ripped off, the button wasn't as optional as you make it sound.

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 12:55:37 am
content: Like many other owners of the Panasonic NN-SF550W flatbed microwave, the push button opening works fine. The door has to be slammed to close, until something breaks. The fix is to oil/grease the slide inside the door, not the exposed parts of the pawls.This model is barely able to cook in its original state. Panasonic must hate its customers to have marketed such a dysfunctional model.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 03:57:49 am
content: I honestly don't think this is that big of a deal. There is a certain amount of force that needs to hold the door closed to get a good seal. With a mechanical latch, that force has to be applied by the user one way or another. There are several ways to solve this problem. You can mount the microwave in a fixed position, such as an under counter unit. You can push it up against a wall. You can just push fast enough that the inertia holds it in place (this works for me with most microwaves I have tried).Alternately, you can just add weight. Sure, the manufacturer could do that, but that is the worst possible solution. It means I have to pay for transporting a bunch of ballast halfway around the world. Plus it makes it harder for me to load into my car, unbox, and lift it onto the countertop. It is even more inconvenient if you move regularly. I would much rather just set something heavy on top of the microwave myself after it is installed if I need it.

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 03:16:12 pm
content: I just looked at some additional microwaves and found a couple more that don't slide around when operating the door. Sadly this positive trait seems to be in the minority of units.I have now found both types push-button-to-open & handle-pull-only (no release button) that don't require excessive force to work the door. Additionallythese working models don't weight any morethan the others. They're also in comparable price ranges as the failing models.The fact that are a fewworkingcounter examples indicates that it is possible to produce a door that isn't a nuisance to operate. Why isn't the better design in the majority?-rastro

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 04:50:46 pm
content: Is this really a serious discussion in the Projects, Designs and Technical Stuff section?Just get some foam rubber pads and stick them to the bottom of the feet.At worst it's a case of maunufacturers failing to fit feet with a sufficiently high coefficient of static friction, it's hardly a "Door Design FAIL".

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 07:30:41 pm
content: Actually more like a first world problem.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 08:20:04 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on September 25, 2017, 03:57:28 amWhich is actually a good thing. The switched mode power supply can linearly adjust the power delivered to the magnetron, thus giving superior power control to the old transformer, which was PWMed at a very low frequency of around 0.2Hz or less. Less energy will be used, both during the microwave's life and during shipping.It's just a shame the designers didn't take the lighter weight into account when selecting the feet and door mechanism.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 09:14:59 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on September 28, 2017, 04:50:46 pmWell, the manufacturers certainly don't seem to think so.