Bullshit: Texzon Wireless Power - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 09:15:28 am
content: Do we need a whole forum section for dodgy products?The bullshit tech of the day award goes to Texzon Wireless PowerAnd I didn't even make it past the home page.www.texzontechnologies.com

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 09:22:49 am
content: Sadly enough, they targeted power and aging ugly power lines, wrote some BS & the website layout is flashy enough that they will get investors, which someone there will just be pocketing 95% of the dough, then one day vanish with it....

author: cat87
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 09:45:20 am
content: So they want to emit hundreds of kW or MW of power.... riiiiiiiightAlso, information on that Zenneck wave thing is kinda sketchy. Not enough solid stuff to it. As expected, of course. If they really have a patent on the stuff, why don't they give out more details? Well, obviously, because it doesn't work, but still, they could at least have made up some

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 09:59:40 am
content: QuoteYes, oh, please yes! I am in desperate need of amusement at the moment.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 10:47:50 am
content: Quote from: cat87 on February 13, 2018, 09:45:20 amSome time ago it was Ring Power Multiplier, now they need more money - to research Zenneck waveAfter some time when money will dry out, there will be another invention/patent and so on.. Smells like venture investment fraud similar to freaking roadways.Note that Texzon do not even own related patents (contrary to their claims):https://www.google.com/patents/US7969042https://www.google.com/patents/US20140252886 Yes, we need forum section for dodgy technologies/projects/products - upcoming or already in production.

author: John Heath
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 10:52:16 am
content: They state . in small print . that the technology has not been proven.QuoteAnd Zenneck Surface Waves which use the surface of the earth as a waveguide and travel at high levels of efficiency but had yet to be experimentally observed. Our technology uses only surface waves (guided surface waves), and not ground waves (radiated waves).End quoteThis may be consider a legal disclaimer in a court of law therefore action can not be taken for fraud.Secondly the healthy good looking middle aged woman pictured. There market target is money in lose hands that is unlikely to read the fine print. They hit their market target right on the nose.If I wanted to raise money for a new product I would want these guys on my team. I give a thumbs up to the marketing team. I give a thumbs down for participating in a scam. Unfortunately fairness as nothing to do with business law , buyer be ware.

author: cat87
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 11:58:01 am
content: Well, I just don't get it.... if these guys want money, why go for some unproven, obscure technology?Why don't they stick with the normal and well-known stuff... like 10.000 $ speaker cables or a 5000 $ wire holder, so that the wires float a few inches off the floor? Also, there's waaaay more cash to be made that way. I mean, people will willingly open their wallets for this kind of "proven" technology.But I digress.....

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 12:05:56 pm
content: Imagine it would work: How are they going to prevent you, me and everyone else using the energy without paying?

author: John Heath
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 12:42:01 pm
content: Good point. Just hammer a copper stake in the ground to borrow some of their energy. I guess borrow is a little over the top for out right stealingAllow me to rephrase. You hammered a copper stake in the ground for a lightening ground to protection for your family and loved ones. There just happened to be some free power from the ground stake so you used it , for experimental reasons only. Who can point a finger of guilt under these circumstances. I rest my case.

author: W8LV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 03:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on February 13, 2018, 09:59:40 amYes. We need one section for stuff like this!And ANOTHER just for counterfeit stuff, certain Go Fund kinda sites, perhaps?Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 02:48:52 am
content: Quote from: ogden on February 13, 2018, 10:47:50 amWTF?Why are the distance measurements in the first few graphs in Kilometers, then the next few Miles? Then, the vertical field strength changes from mV/m to uV/m, then back to mV/m.Reminds me of the Duracell 'Quantum' technical .pdf comparing battery output impedance curve to all the regular 'Duracell' battery .pdf. There is 1 chart which appears to have better performance than the normal Duracells, however it only looks better until you closely look at the vertical impedance scale in the 'Quantum' batteries. They changed and squeezed the scale on that one graph for their Quantum battery. And if you look closely, you notice that this 1 single graph looks like it was pencil drawn by hand then scanned into the .pdf unlike every other one which was properly done. If you reverse the vertical scale changes & account for that minuscule noise error introduced by that hand drawing, those double priced 'Duracell Quantum' batteries are IDENTICAL in performance to every other Duracell battery they make. (Looking at size AAA through D)...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 02:57:03 am
content: Quote from: W8LV on February 13, 2018, 03:40:49 pmHere it is:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/

author: JugglingElectrons
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 04:23:24 am
content: What really scares me is that when people aren't familiar with data, equations, testing hypotheses, etc. they tend to latch onto something as vague as some phrasing about harnessing the Zenneck wave. It doesn't help when they are already big on woowoo. Half the time I don't know if it is just wishful emotional thinking instead of logical reasoning or that they don't have the skills to determine correct information from lies. I'm not satisfied until there is at least some data we can run with and do some further investigation on, otherwise we don't need to take any claims seriously.

author: tarraf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 07:05:02 am
content: Texzon is now named VIZIV technologies and they publishedhttp://vizivtechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TEXZON_Baylor_Corum16.pdfwith experimental data showing attenuation of Zenneck waves with distance. In light of this data I thought it would be interesting to get your educated comments!Here is the first graph with a 52 Mhz waveAnd the second one with a 1.82 Mhz waveAnother more historical information paper is herehttp://vizivtechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/TWP-Paper-10-3-2017.pdf

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 07:42:51 pm
content: So, at 52 MHz, the field strength drops to zero at 5 km. Well, not transmitting any energy very far like that.And, at 1.82 MHz, they get signal out to 30,000 km! Hmmm, where the hell did they find a 30,000 MILE long radio test range? The entire circumference of the earth is is 25,000 mi, but their last data point is OVER 30K! (Or, maybe I'm confused by the different dots on the chart.)And, of course, the FCC and other nation's agencies might have something to say about broadcasting energy this way.Jon

author: tarraf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 12:22:20 pm
content: Their number typo is confusing. However I think they mean 30.000 km or 30 km, those are trailing zeros...and they show a map picture of the lake below where they did the experiment.Ali

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 05:31:24 pm
content: I've been working with Texzon for over 5 years on this project - its no joke. The patents for the RPM mentioned earlier are by James Corum, Texzon's (viziv) leading scientist. He confirmed the findings of the Philadelphia experiment and made objects radar-invisible in labs etc. James Corum and his brother Kenneth are the pinnacle of RF scientists.The tower has been builthttps://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Scientists-studying-wireless-electric-transmission-in-Central-Texas-494839331.htmlThey replicated the Seneca Lake experiments, and have performed successful demos for 3-letter government agencies. None of this is BS.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 05:44:20 pm
content: My bollocks-o-meter meter just exploded. Thank you

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 05:53:14 pm
content: First you'd have to build a receiver capable of receiving a guided wave, then give it the precision to tune to 8 or more decimal points to resonate the circuit. Good luck building the receiver to those specifications, and better luck finding the broadcast frequency.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 05:54:03 pm
content: James F. Corum is Viziv's chief scientist... they guy listed on the RPM patent.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 05:55:48 pm
content: You wont pull power out of the ground from their transmitter. Wrong physics entirely.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:01:58 pm
content: You're right, they just spent millions on the tower for something they never got working small scale because they wanted to pull a prank and waste theirs, and everyone else's money.The truth is, they have demonstrated it works, they got even more funding, they built the high-power tower, and they are going to launch the wave in the next few weeks and bring up a load on the other side of the world.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:02:55 pm
content: No offense, but This seems like next DIY cold fusionprojectfraud to me

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:06:59 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 05:31:24 pm“The Viziv surface wave systems will improve the quality of life for people everywhere by enabling the delivery of affordable electricity throughout the world,” Viziv Technologies states on its website.Oh FFSNothing to see here.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:08:07 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:01:58 pmuBeamEnergeousFontusJuiceroSteornPlenty of idiots out there pissing away money on unicorns.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:08:22 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 05:53:14 pmIt just might be that is why frequency counters where invented? After that it is just a question of tuning for max power... yes, like you do when tuning in to a radios station, no magic involved.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on October 04, 2018, 06:08:22 pmAnd what happens as soon as you start drawing power from a resonant circuit?Things only resonate sharply because the energy has nowhere else to go.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 04, 2018, 06:09:56 pmA.K.A high Q, unloaded circuit.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:19:31 pm
content: You can only draw power from a resonant circuit if you can get it there.Power density equation (and its derivation!) tends to kill this dead. This to charge a smartphone on the other side of the house think 628kw transmitter

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:24:25 pm
content: You made my point, its not really magic, its a known principle of electromagnetism, to use the earth as the guide surface, just like the EMF traveling along a conductor.To steal the power, you have to have the ability to craft a circuit that has the tuning tolerances to 0.00000001 Hz. Your car radio goes out 1 decimal place...You got a freq counter that can tune in increments of .00000001? Not being facetious at all, I'm genuinely asking

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 04, 2018, 06:19:31 pmOh come on, you know Zenneck waves are immune to that!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:24:25 pmNo. Have you?Even the most stable oscillators cannot maintain that frequency stability. Also things like Doppler shift. Imagine a car driving away from the source. That will cause the frequency to decrease. Also general relativity causes problems there - look at GPS and time dilation.Quote from: PA0PBZ on October 04, 2018, 06:26:22 pmOnly on Tuesdays

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:36:06 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 04, 2018, 06:33:39 pmMe neither, my counter doesn't tune

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:40:42 pm
content: Hertzian (norton ground waves) waves have different properties than guided waves. For example, one of the main differences is that the lower you go in Hz, the more efficient they become.There are more types of EMF than just HZ/RF.Most of the gnashing of teeth here is simply due to the lack of understanding guided waves. Most everything said here holds true for Hertzian waves. But hardly any of it applies to guided waves! Jonathan Zenneck - look him up

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:42:18 pm
content: All hertzian issues... there is no signal loss like that of inverse square with guided waves.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:56:41 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:42:18 pmPut your money where your mouth is and show me a paper explaining it with derivations. I’ve done most of the Feynman books.I know who Jonathan Zenneck is.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 06:59:38 pm
content: This whole thread isnt going to age well for you guys... the groupthink is on display big time.The article I linked I just came to read the 'opposition' from the article I linked showing the completion of the tower, since the article mentioned this forum explicitly. Smae ol stuff I've been hearing for 5 years. Most of it incorrectly tries to link hertzian wave propagation to this technology, as was done here.I know the system works, because:I know who the investors areI know who the inventor is

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:01:59 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:59:38 pmI did not see system working but I did see names. LOL.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:03:19 pm
content: What is available for public consumption on the math and science has already been posted here. The company does not have to show you how it works. When its launched in a few weeks, we can regroup and chat more. I have nothing further to add; I just wanted to show this group the tower since you were mentioned in the article, and read what was being said about the 'bullshit'

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:03:19 pmCool, I'm looking forward to it and I expect you to be back in this thread to let us know the moment is there?

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on October 04, 2018, 07:01:59 pmI didnt see the big bang, but believed it happened. I havent seen an atom, but know they exist because I've split them.I know they've conducted tests they havent talked about. I know the results of those successful tests.They have all he funding they need, and then some. Not because they talk about it, because they've demo'd it.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:07:59 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on October 04, 2018, 07:05:53 pmYes, Ive bookmarked and will be back after the launch.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:09:50 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:59:38 pmIt’s not group think.1. No evidence has been shown of it working.2. The physics don’t make sense based on current understanding and propose no new understanding or mathematical models which are independently verifiable.3. There are a hundred other people making the same claims with no delivery going back 50-100 years now.4. You show no understanding.5. Names mean nothing. Look up Nobel Syndrome.6. Investors mean nothing (I have worked with many VCs over the years)7. The pivotal idea is concentrating on one unrealistic factor.As an atheist, this has more credibility than you or the project:https://arkencounter.comIf it looks like it works it’ll be a mechanical Turk.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:11:47 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:03:19 pmAnd your appearance here has *nothing* to do with google's first hit for Texzon wireless power being the title of this thread.That bloody unicorn in my back garden is chatting the hind legs off my pet Kraken...

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:12:50 pm
content: I like the Corum brothers. Anyone interested in modern Tesla coil theory and practice should read their work. If anyone can do real power transmission via guided waves they would be the ones.I've done some small experiments in wireless power transfer systems myself. One problem is what I call "inadvertent reception" where things become energized that you don't necessarily want to be. If receiver tuning needs to be as sharp as all that, maybe inadvertent reception is less of a problem.I'm confused about the frequency counter question. I have an old Philips PM6676 ocxo counter that has 9 significant digits of resolution maximum, depending on frequency and gate time. I'm pretty sure modern counters can do much better than that.(oops, only 9 sig digs after all...)

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:59:38 pmYes yes, just like it was with uBeam. We are still well and alive.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on October 04, 2018, 07:12:50 pmThats not actually that bad. I live up the road from NPL so I can nip in there and borrow oneThe problem is how do you build a resonator with that level of accuracy that is thermally stable and that’s ignoring the other claims. If something has to have that precision and high Q then even moving it relative to the source will detune it.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:29:05 pm
content: It has to have some kind of autoresonator locking system, like a PLL. The systems I play with have the transmitter varying frequency to stay in resonance with the receiver as conditions change, but it should be able to do it the other way around too, no?

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:40:50 pm
content: Just for fun:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 07:59:41 pm
content: That's not particularly difficult to achieve without breaking any laws.What you have there is (doing a finger in the air) ~5 femto-farad capacitor between the coils. To get any coupling between the two you have to have a seriously large dV/dt which is why you require a tesla coil. The denominator of the capacitor is distance so the further the distance, the higher the dv/dt is required.Unfortunately the initial distance is precisely one metric fuck all so that denominator on the capacitance formula, neatly derived from Gauss' law adds up pretty quickly. Which is why Tesla fell flat on his arse. To get any kind of coupling, you need to stick MW in to get W out. Plus also sheep and things will probably catch fire in the near field.If you fuck with physics it will lead to disappointment, if it doesn't fuck you back first.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 08:14:25 pm
content: Heh... inadvertent reception, you know what I mean! Or the sheep do, anyway...Any hope of success depends on receiver and transmitter remaining in the near field. I don't know what that means for low frequency surface waves, but using a different system (EM rather than capacitive) I've noticed that one may get much more efficient power transfer in the near field without 1/r2falloff.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 08:26:05 pm
content: I think they are just going to have to make the near field huge which has more problems.Look at VLF propagation. Efficiency characteristics are the same. The problem with the lower frequencies is to couple the antenna into free space you have to either have a massive amount of power going into a small antenna and accept a loss (this is the normal mode of operation), or have a massive antenna which is directional. A typical dipole for VLF say 30KHz would be 4.7km long. You can electrically shorten this but you blow efficiency out of the window. Also not all surface waves travel along the ground. Some of them shoot off and get gobbled up by the ionosphere.These ideas never scale up which is the problem. All apparent breakthroughs are small things that aren't going to scale up.Incidentally the military spent decades and more money than anyone else on this crap over the years and came up with zip.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 08:30:57 pm
content: Well the FCC licences they have are in the name of Texzon and are for 80KHz-120KHz, 1.71MHz to 1.9MHz and 50MHz to 54MHz (that's not going to please a lot of Hams).All specified as 'expected to be non radiating' with powers of 6KW or more and stated ERP of 100mW, bandwidths of 10Hz and 100Hz and frequency accuracies are nowhere near as tight as Zenneckwave suggested though they are stated for the transmitters, not the receivers of course.I strongly suspect the replies here are because of the first google hit on a search for their name being "Bullshit: Texzon Wireless Power", maybe there's a funding round due...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 08:36:19 pm
content: Interesting find. Those are thoroughly explored bits of spectrum.Is that 6KW in and 100mW out?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 08:40:07 pm
content: It seems to be but they're claiming they expect it to be non radiating.Have a read for yourself,https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/GenericSearch.cfmand enter Texzon in the Applicant Name field

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 08:49:01 pm
content: Ooh meaty. Thank you.Followed the rabbit hole.Here is the entire experiment detail:https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=202374&x=.COTS AM TX running 160m 1000W EIRP. Input power is 50KW which suggests a VERY poor radiator (as I asserted earlier)

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 09:58:30 pm
content: My appearance here is a bystander like you. I have been following texzon for quite some time now, and complained loudly when they changed their name from texzon to now worse, Viziv.I am thrilled about the work, and like I said before, this is just another test in a long line of tests already concluded. This one will lite up a lightbulb on the other side of the planet.cheers fellas! Its a great time for humanity and I dont blame your skepticism whatsoever

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:00:43 pm
content: the guided wave is non-radiative.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 09:58:30 pmAnd how exactly does lighting a bulb the other side of the planet help anyone?Long-distance transmission of power is a pretty solved problem and like networking, a wire will usually be cheaper and more efficient.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:04:20 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 04, 2018, 08:49:01 pmHeres the actual text, so you can see its <5 kW in...Missed that - 50kW is correct my bad!BUT and guided waves are non-radiating. (nearly lossless)"Texzon anticipates that the demonstrations will be non-radiating. Toconduct the demonstrations, the RF power necessary to maintain thevoltage to produce local fields required to launch a high velocitypropagating surface wave will be utilized.The testing will not exceed 50kW of RF input power to the surface wave launching probe at 1710 kHz.The intent is to produce a surface wave without producing any Nortonground wave radiation. Texzon believes that the EIRP will be limited to1000 watts. Texzon will conduct other testing in the spectrum range from1710 kHz to 1900 kHz but the input power will be less than 5 kW forthose tests with EIRP limited to 100 watts or less for that testing."

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:08:09 pm
content: Because now, your car can run on electricity and never need to be plugged in. Power plants can be built at the energy source. Solar can be transmitted 24x7. A true global power market, where you can actually buy electrons generated from the sun.Disaster recovery. Electricity where theres no infrastructure. eliminating open fires for cooking. eliminating kerosene lamps. This is what wireless power is. its bringing all of humans into the 20th century.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:10:23 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on October 04, 2018, 08:40:07 pmHere's some work by the inventor:https://patents.justia.com/inventor/james-f-corumGo tell him he's wrong I dare you. Us simplteons just have to watch and see if he pulls it off.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:21:24 pm
content: Well he’s filed a lot of patents for sure. I will attempt to read them over the next few days.Let’s throw a hand grenade in the pond anyway. One of the patents is about theft of wireless power and disabling the receiver. So revolutionise energy distribution, then control energy distribution, then prevent energy distribution. I couldn’t see any plans for an evil moon base in there but I reckon that’s next.The lamp will not light. Then more funding will be required.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 13, 2018, 09:15:28 amOf course there are pictures of children on the home page. Think Of The Children part of the mission statement is accomplished and success is granted.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:25:35 pm
content: It's lit up every time so far.... maybe he will fail this time? I don't think so personally. Im not alone in that thought

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:27:40 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 04, 2018, 10:21:24 pmWell those former executives from Coca Cola need a place to work somewhere.

author: zenneckwave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:30:45 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on October 04, 2018, 08:30:57 pmI linked a News article that was about the construction of the tower being completed. The article mentioned this forum specifically as calling texzon vaporware etc. I'm not an employee, just an observer who found out about these guys 5 years ago and have been watching closely since. So I kinda kicked the nest so to speak.They have papers you can download, released to the sci community at Baylor. To my knowledge no one has refuted their science, and Baylor has partnered up with them to start studying the commercialization.https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=story&story=202581

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 10:30:45 pmSo they've been at it for 5 years, and yet to show any verified evidence of anything groundbreaking.Now they're building a big tesla coil.OK it may look pretty and send an insignificiant proportion of its input power over a distance but file under "nothing to see here" until proven otherwise.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:36:52 pm
content: Indeed.Also why the scientific community hasn’t touched this is these ventures are poisonous by association.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2018, 10:52:15 pm
content: Patent does not prove that tech actually works.https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US5023850-1.png

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 02:43:56 am
content: Quote from: ogden on October 04, 2018, 10:52:15 pmNor could it.Evidence to prove some invention actually works as claimed would need to be vetted - and since any such invention is "new" then there would be a significant likelihood that there would be no independent entity that would be equipped or skilled enough to validate the claims. It would be a costing nightmare as well.The patent office can only examine the principles involved and claims made against existing patents - which is what they (are supposed to) do right now.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 04:25:22 am
content: Some points raised by others:Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 04, 2018, 06:09:56 pmChange the load of a resonant circuit and things go to hell in a handbasket. I'm having trouble dealing with the resilience of such a system in real world load scenarios.Quote from: ogden on October 04, 2018, 07:01:59 pmNo first hand information?!! Do you also blindly believe used car salespeople and software salespeople? Because until there are results that have been verified by an independent third party, then you are smiling and nodding to someone who says "Trust me!".Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:24:25 pmQuote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 05:53:14 pmIt seems somewhat obvious to me that the same constraints would apply in delivering power to an authorised recipient.Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 05:53:14 pmWhat? Is a spectrum analyser no good?Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on October 04, 2018, 07:12:50 pmThis is a real Pandora's Box, IMHO.There have been claims that mobile phone transmissions can create sparks in any suitably arranged conductive bodies that are close enough. While the power levels are low and the critical dimensions are highly improbable and, that as a result, it is highly unlikely to be encountered, itistheoretically possible. Bump up the power a few orders of magnitude and the range extends far and wide - so who knows what might just happen to "tune in".Another aspect of this is: What effect will dumping such large amounts of power into the environment cause? Will the forests absorb some - and to what effect? What about the fleshy bags of salty water and tissue walking around? The ionosphere? The magnetosphere? Please don't say human efforts cannot compare with nature's might. Wood fires weren't a big problem for millenia, but when the Industrial Revolution came to town, carbon emissions started on a perilous trend.Call me an alarmist if you must - but these are just questions. Questions which I believe deserve considered and researched answers.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 05:52:15 am
content: Shit, came in here and now I need a new bullshit meter, cringeometer, and a few new braincells.Going on about "ground waves" and saying its not rf and does not obey inverse square. Yes, whatever the hell you're rambling about does obey it, it's EMF, therefore it is photons, and therefore obeys the laws of physics. But you go on aboutQuote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 10:00:43 pmOh dear, the whole "Earth is a waveguide" stuff started by Tesla that every nut vomits. The phenomenon is realhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth–ionosphere_waveguidehowever, good luck trying to get reasonable amounts of energy through it. Not only does it bounce down only at certain points (orginally discovered by Tesla), butQuoteNot to meantion the whole "load on a resonator" stuff people have been discussing. Oh and the fact that pumping that amount of energy into the air would be like HAARP tenfold.IE it would probably start actually making weather and whatnot.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 05:53:26 am
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 09:58:30 pmOff the scale

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 06:07:09 am
content: Oh and random objects getting enerized by RF is a sign you are definately not creating a "non-radiating" wave, that's definately a sign of pumping loads of RF randomly in the air. No amount of precision tuning will help, as that's not how RF works. Not only is it impossible to create that precise of a signal at those power levels, it starts getting to the level where tuning doesn't matter and the shear amount of photons flying around causes issues (like foil in a microwave).I bet the bulb at around the globe stunt will just be a magic trick with an internal battery powered prank bulb.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 06:07:59 am
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:07:03 pmI've worked on multiple 10's of millions of dollar military experimental projects that had many "successful tests", yet were ultimately cancelled because, well, "successful" does not always end up as "practical".We were able to get more funding after each "successful test" for quite some time.My favourite phrase from that time was that the project was "workmanship over engineering"uBeam, Energous et.al have all had "successful tests" too.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 06:17:48 am
content: http://vizivtechnologies.com/technology/

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 08:33:25 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 05, 2018, 06:07:09 amooh, you cynic, of course it will work but because of the proprietary technology in use they couldn't possibly reveal the contents of the box unless you sign a massively restrictive NDA and perhaps not even then and there definitely won't be any test gear other than their own carefully curated equipment allowed anywhere near the 'receiver' or transmitter(though at powers 60dBm and above it won't take a lot of effort to work out if they're 'transmitting' from a car parked in the vicinity unless they've got some really heavy duty RF shielding).

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 08:52:50 am
content: I just love the idea of living in a waveguide with megawatts of power flowing through it. I will save a small fortune in heating over the winter - but summer will be a bitch.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 10:10:19 am
content: Indeed.Doh someone stepped in front of the waveguide again...

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 11:10:54 am
content: This is so much fun to read, imagine those who put money in it... I think if you are stupid rich you lose the value of money. The more you have the less you care.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 11:12:35 am
content: Quote from: zucca on October 05, 2018, 11:10:54 amYep, like i said, a search for Texzon Wireless power throws this page up as first hit, they must be fuming that their name is linked with Bullshit.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 05:31:57 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:07:03 pmMany beleive it happened, alas we can only accumulate evidence for it, not "proof".Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:07:03 pmYou've split an atom? I'm not sure many can make that claim, although I guess it depends on whether you were a pilot doing the tests or one of the physicists?Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:07:03 pmWe see this time and again. Not jsut on this forum, and not just about technology, often with "wellness" or health fads too. You cannot expect to say "I've seen it with my own eyes!" and have people blindly (see what I did there?) believe you. Especially on a forum geared towards engineering which is full of.. engineers who spend their lives dealing with real-world things.Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 07:07:03 pmI'm unsure why you've posted on this forum. I'm not suggesting you don't just that I really don't see why. Given the poor grammar and almost ranty posts I really can't see you being any kind of PR person for the company - if you are, I apologise, but they really should review their hiring process. If not a PR person then, one of the engineers?Naaa, you've repeated the same vague sciencey-sound-stuff that many "tesla lovers" parrot. Sure, there are plenty of engineers who believe wacky things - but often they are engineers in other fields (and thus have Dunning-Kruger working for them).If you're not an employee, then perhaps an investor? but then why would investors waste their time trying to convince random people in a forum of their investments? its not like anyone here is going to actually invest. If not an investor then...Someone who likes to follow fringe science? Fair enough. I'll admit I do that, it often amazes me the hoops people will jump through to avoid admitting they're wrong. It must work... but if it can work.. why don't we have it? well. someone must be suppressing the technology! but why? etc..etc.. No-one is immune to false beliefs (generally, the more immune you think you are - the more prone you are! cognitive bias at its finest), and they can be hard to find.Sorry if this appears a but harsh, I am genuinely curious what your relationship with this company is, and why you decided to post here. You must have known the sort of responses you would get - especially if you believe we're all closed minded and "group mind" (I assume you mean hive mind? which is odd as many here are older and quite stubborn - not willing to follow others).I was going to question the whole "8 digit frequency counter" thing but others have covered that.. including that even if the system worked - it would be laughably impracticable if it required that kind of precision. Which you would know if you had just thought about it for a minute.Edited: so many typos..

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 08:58:15 pm
content: QuoteYou can get up to 10 digit frequency meters though.https://www.amazon.com/Frequency-Counter-0-001Hz-Digits-mVrms/dp/B011ONWV4EBut that kind of precision is found in low power stuff.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 09:13:59 pm
content: 10 is old hat, I have a couple.12 is the new rock and roll.https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1893411-pn-53220A/350-mhz-universal-frequency-counter-timer-12-digits-s-100-ps?cc=US&lc=eng

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 09:19:24 pm
content: But that only goes up to 350MHz.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 09:23:26 pm
content: Doesn't need to go high up, just have extreme resolution. Which is hard.Say 1710KHz at the quoted 0.0000001Hz resolution. That's 1710000.00000001 which is 15 digits. Plus you need another digit anyway so 16 digit.Now NPL's primary caesium fountain standard is 2.8x10^-13 per second up to 2.5x10^16 per two weeks.Now the MTBF of the standard is 33 days and uptime is 83% and I haven't even mentioned jitter and all that so you are, to use a technical term, bloody fucked.IMHO they will write it off on that basis when it doesn't work.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 09:59:33 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 05, 2018, 09:23:26 pmThere are 14 digit meters though (up to 40GHz too!), so not far off.https://www.newark.com/tektronix/mca3040/microwave-counter-w-integrated/dp/84R5912Not sure if 16 digit meters exist, but we're close if not. However, I doubt that resolution would matter at the power levels needed for "wireless power".

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2018, 11:25:43 pm
content: Problem is sub-Hz frequencies. 40 GHz is easy in comparison.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 12:38:49 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 05, 2018, 11:25:43 pmNo, it's easy, it's called reciprocal counting mode, and most good frequency counters have it. It's trivial to measure very low frequencies with great precision.The resolution is based on your reference clock, so a standard 10MHz reference gives 0.0000001Hz resolution.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 02:45:27 am
content: In other words, it doesn't matter which part of the beast you smell - it all stinks.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 03:06:57 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on October 06, 2018, 02:45:27 amAnd if you wash it, what's under the crap is equally ugly.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 06:49:41 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 13, 2018, 12:05:56 pmThis is exactly what killed Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower wireless power project....

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 07:18:34 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on October 05, 2018, 09:19:24 pmThat's fine, they're only licensed to use up to 54MHz

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 10:37:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 06, 2018, 12:38:49 amThis isn’t low frequencies. It’s precise frequencies to 16 digits which isn’t easy.I should have been more detailed in my point. It’s difficult to measure 10^-8 to 10^7 at the same time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 01:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 06, 2018, 10:37:04 amAh, I assumed it was some low frequency thing.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2018, 01:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on October 06, 2018, 06:49:41 amThat and it's incredible innefficiency. It took a whole power plant just to light some discharge lamps.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 02:33:48 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on October 04, 2018, 10:52:15 pmThis is a must read, if just for the comedy - the text starts on page 4. I think I shall so equip all of my dogs.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 03:39:06 pm
content: Oh that's brilliant. Thanks for posting.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 08:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on October 04, 2018, 10:52:15 pmGood to see the 555 timer getting some use from a Bulldog.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 02:11:16 pm
content: Also, I'm not sure what about that dog watch patent wouldn't work - model railroaders have been using frequency multipliers even on cheap battery operated electric clocks to produce fast clocks, and even those super cheap clock models mostly can take being operated at least 12x the standard speed.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 06:49:26 am
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 05:31:24 pmFirst of all, congratulations on exploring this to such depths. Zenneck Wave is not unreal, it exists! I like what Schekunoff had mentioned in this regards. "Different words have different meanings for different people and hence the noise".As far as I understand, the receivers lying on the ground need to have the proper electrical length to resonate? I mean you cant simply use RLC parameter based resonant circuits at Frequencies below 36 MHz. Its all about receiving parameters given by radiation resistance relation. The physical dimension would have to be atleast 1/2 wavelength long?As far as am concerned, I understand that the Earth ground is actually a neutral point?Also, the attenuation of the E_z(Y) in the transverse direction (Y axis) needs to be phase progressive as well as independent of frequency? Z axis is normal to the ground-air interface.Please do shed some light on this.Sincerely

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 06:54:59 am
content: ZenneckWave,You are wasting your time here by defending that it is a non-radiative power transfer system.Ironically, these guys have quoted some wiki articles, but, did not bother to look up something called "Evanescent" Decay.Being Non-radiative, it can easily bypass partial faraday shields. e.g. it can get through the neoprene gaskets of the shipping containers etc.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:22:44 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 04, 2018, 08:26:05 pmI have to admit that near-field is unpredictable. The issue here is that an antenna witha resonant length of Lambda/2 will actually couple with the Zenneck Wave. Lumped parameters donot work effectively in this regime. The oldest trick in the book is improving the Radiation Resistance using the multi loop helical coil of a total lambda/2 electrical length. Another standing road block is the fact that the H-field simply travels in loops (parallel to the ground-air interface) in this mode of power transmission. Also known as Transverse Magnetic wave. So, as one moves away from the transmitter, the power gets spread in large contours. Radiation may not happen here, the way we think. However, with higher number of Receivers, you can actually extract more power as it is not a coupled mode power transmission.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:33:54 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on July 23, 2018, 07:42:51 pmI think its a "dot", so it might be 30 miles. Also, the X axis in that plot needs to be in Logrithmic scale. If I apply Schelkunoff's integrals to the said scenario, then, the attenuation should be independent of the frequency. This has also been confirmed by Tapan Sarkar et. al. in their 2014 publication titled: "Application of the Schelkunoff Formulation to the Sommerfeld Problem of a Vertical Electric Dipole Radiating Over an Imperfect Ground" , IEEE Trans. Attenna and Propagation Volume: 62 , Issue: 8. But, I think we have to really zoom into 100m zone to see that effect, instead of 30 miles.

author: Ozone88
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 03:15:14 am
content: New member tonight, Amateur Radio since 1960, EE 1970, Fringe Scientist. 3 questions to start:1. Can you compare Raymond C. Gelinas / Honeywell patents with Corum / CPG patents & let me know? Hmmm...2. How is ViZiV gonna modulate the 50KW Nautel AM transmitter driving their TESLA-coil longitudinal-wave transmitter?3. Anybody near TX site for signal reports? I'm building a 3-ground listening array for surface waves 30 kHz > HF.Cheers, Ozone88

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 12:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 13, 2018, 12:05:56 pmAh, that's easy. Blockchain!!(Ducking and running...)Edit:

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 02:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 12, 2018, 12:50:04 pmPfft.Synergistic Blockchain surely?Interesting that there's been no world changing announcement but three new users who are enthusiastic (one might say 'astro-turfing') about the technology.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 08:11:40 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 12, 2018, 02:17:25 pmYour irony detector may be due for calibration.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 01:58:36 am
content: Tesla must feel pretty sad in his grave.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 09:52:13 am
content: It worked, allegedly.twitter.com/BrianRoemmele/status/1061478991834505216Even I can detect it. ->

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 09:59:06 am
content: Marketing:it workedReal world:we had a minor breakthrough where one of our narrow predictions was almost correct but we haven't analysed all the data yet and at no point are we publishing it for peer review. can we have some more money? k thxSimilar outcomes start as "man finds extra terrestrial signal from space" and ends in "man had radio interference from local TV transmitter plus was a meth head".

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 11:46:49 pm
content: Its Magic !

author: bigglesOz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 10:09:22 am
content: what's this then... one for the septic nerdshttps://www.collective-evolution.com/2018/11/13/strange-looking-tesla-tower-in-texas-aims-to-transmute-electricity-wirelessly/

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 11:17:22 am
content: Quote from: bigglesOz on November 16, 2018, 10:09:22 amIt's just a Free Energy For All junk article!

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 02:03:16 pm
content: Y'know, 'all' these new user accounts, shilling for Texzon?

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 02:35:50 pm
content: I wonder just how much money they have collected?10's of millions?The CEO was a Health Administrator and graduate of online for profit school.

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 02:37:09 pm
content: Whole lotta astroturfing going on here. I wish that audiophool companies would come astroturf too in the audiophool threads.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 02:43:37 pm
content: Perhaps we need to bait them

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 03:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 05, 2018, 05:31:57 pmBuriedcode, I don't know how to exactly say it, but, you took the words right out of my mouth...

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 03:17:34 pm
content: What is a "septic nerd"?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 03:36:08 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 16, 2018, 02:43:37 pmNah, fun thing is, this thread comes up high in the google results for Texzon and viziv, closely linked with the words BULLSHIT and SCAM

author: EllisCo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 04:02:11 pm
content: I have to say that I am a skeptic myself, and have read all the posts on this thread with great interest. I live in the area of the Texzon/Viziv tower, and stumbled onto this project soon after they bought the tower site in Milford, Texas. I can't speak to the technology, but can provide some input on the "scam" aspects of the company. I don't know if the technology works, or not, but I have to say that the people behind this BELIEVE that it does. They were confident enough to buy a 300 acre site, and build a full-scale transmitter. This is not a kitchen table project. Not long after I saw their initial efforts, I read through what was on their Website, and reviewed the patent applications. I was interested on behalf of an acquaintance who might have been a potential investor. I contacted Texzon twice by email, asking for a meeting on behalf of the investor (one of Forbes top 50 world billionaires). I got no reply. I actually went to the Texzon (now re-named Viziv) HQ in Waxahachie, and got no further than the front door. I sent a follow-up email to their Director Of Development, telling him to let me know if their need for funding changed. I didn't even get a reply to that. I have to say that if they are running a scam, trying to bilk investors, they are doing a very poor job of it. It would have made a lot more sense to buy no land, build a small test tower to fake "results", and take money from anyone who would offer it. That is definitely NOT what they are doing. Call them misguided or delusional, but no con turns away investors on this scale. From their SEC filings regarding investors, they have likely spent a great deal of what they have raised on hard costs and salaries. These guys are either totally bonkers, on drugs, or they are onto something. Despite the posts that detail technical shortcomings, I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 04:19:14 pm
content: Quote from: Johnny10 on November 16, 2018, 03:17:34 pmI'm not sure I want to know...Now how do I get that imagery out of my head again??

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:12:00 pm
content: When you invest do you own part of the 300 acre site? Or is it leased back to the company?Come on man, stick a pole in the ground full of electrical energy and believe that you can get it back out hundreds of miles, no wait, thousands of miles away and it be a useable efficient amount of energy.You don't have to be an electrical engineer to understand it is bullshit.Drop a large rock in the ocean and then collect that particular energy potential on the other side of the world ?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:13:14 pm
content: Quote from: EllisCo on November 16, 2018, 04:02:11 pmQuoteGood idea, ignore any technical stuff and just believe.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:24:49 pm
content: Even more sadly, I just realized, they say 1 power station envelopes the world. Besides, as already mentioned here the fact that others may tap into that power freely with home made hardware, what happens when you need a second power station? From the way the website describes the technology, there is 1 power station. How do they expect to power so many people all over the world?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:32:03 pm
content: Licensing. Look at the patents. It's all covered. You will need an energy license and when you don't pay your energy license they will put you in power prison. In power prison there are large hamster wheels erected around the transmission tower which will be used to power it until you have generated your equivalent KWh in servitude. The whole model revolves around this licensing and servitude process. The guy is a business mastermind.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:34:25 pm
content: Also, isn't it stupid to have a power generating plant on one side of earth, receive fuel from the other side of the planet just to send electricity back to that side of the planet? Isn't it cheaper just to use the fuel on the other side of the planet and generate the power there?

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 16, 2018, 05:32:03 pmI'm sure the Russians and Chinese citizens or even cities, who steal his generated power will bow down to their patents and come to the US to be placed in prison for their crime.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:39:35 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on November 16, 2018, 05:34:25 pmEven better: how about if we come up with a new technology that allows you to carry the fuel with you? Then you won't have to precariously balance on the roof of your office with your phone to get power, just 4G reception.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:40:23 pm
content: I'm also sure that if someone makes a receiver and transmitter to send the power back out of phase will never destroy the master transmitter with so many gigawatts being transmitted.Someone should go on Texzon site and ask if the power being sent is 'Encrypted' so it cannot be blocked to interfered with just to see what the yoyo's have to say. I bet we would have just created a new talking point and they'll have a new 'Encryption Power transmitting' patent within a week.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 05:55:25 pm
content: Well everything you try and couple into free space needs impedance matching otherwise you generate quite a bit of a standing wave. I'm wondering if just affecting the SWR of such a transmitter would do the job. Enough to throw back 25% of power would need 250,000kw of load absorbing ability at 1GW out in the transmitter. Bear in mind we have no transmitters that an kick that out now other than for a couple of picoseconds. That's a fuck bucket of energy. All it takes is some enterprising sod with a plane full of tinfoil hats to air drop them all into the near field.Genuinely go and look at the patents for it. They have already thought of that licensing situation hence my facetious outlook on thatI find the whole thing utterly interesting as it's completely retarded at so many levels even if by some galactic conicidence it did work on a small scale.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 05:27:19 am
content: Don't worry, all of these problems will be solved with the all new Super Xenopsycotronic Blockchain IOT Master Control they call the "Think Tank". The the Think Tank will not only encrypt and protect the energy, it will direct it to exactly where you want it with no deviation.*intruder finds door labeled Think Tank and sneaks in**finds a room full of Hollywood sci-fi machines and a man sitting in a chair wearing an EEG helmet. He is staring intently and pointing at a spot map while making a buzzing noise.**intruder startles him and the machinery goes nuts. He turns and points angrily at the intruder, saying nothing but hissing like an angry cat**"Are you guys trying to take over the world by making a Tesla death ray with an insane man wired to a chair or is this a prototype?"**Inruder is tackled by an army of armed guards and is never seen again*(anyone good at comics?)

author: EllisCo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 05:51:45 am
content: OK.......let's assume that the people behind Viziv are delusional or on drugs. Let's assume that the science is all wet, and that the method of distribution won't work, and that despite their patents for signal receivers, everybody would just get free electric. If all that is true, why are they doing this? They haven't raised enough in total for ONE person to live comfortably in exile in Costa Rica, much less to pay for the land, pay for the tower, and keep a growing staff on salary. My point is, they haven't raised enough money for Viziv to be a worthy scam. Enron and Bernie Madoff scammed hundreds of millions. Viziv is peanuts. Why do it, only to wind up destroying your credibility and professional reputations? I don't get it. That they are not seeking additional investors (or even open to listening to proposals) is puzzling. Not much of a Ponzi scheme, in my book.As for the "free power" aspect, what keeps everyone from getting free Sirius satellite radio service, or cellular phone service? I don't think free power is what Viziv has in mind. I think they DO plan to bypass the line transmission charges consumers now pay to Oncor here in Texas. If they can buy electricity wholesale for 3-4 cents a KW hour, and sell it (wireless distribution) for 10 cents, they would have a solid enterprise. I believe that they bought their 300 acre site to build future power generating plants next to their tower in Milford. The site is in close proximity to natural gas transmission lines.At any rate, within a year, we should know who was right about the technology. If it DOESN'T work, they have wasted a lot of time, effort, and money for nothing.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 05:53:25 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on November 17, 2018, 05:27:19 amAww, that's an anti-climax... I was fully expecting the intruder to be vaporized by a beam of wireless power, magically focused on him by the evil man with the thinking cap...

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 06:39:32 am
content: Quote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:51:45 amThe most likely explanation I can come up with is that this is a pet/hobby project for a few retired folks:http://vizivtechnologies.com/about-us/There is at least some intriguing sciencehistorybehind it:http://vizivtechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TEXZON_Baylor_Corum16.pdfThat paper is actually well-written (by two further retirees), and describes an interesting dispute around propagation modes for electromagnetic surface waves, which dispute ranged from 1909 into the 2000s. I won't claim to have followed the math in the paper, but it seems to follow the standard approaches taught during my physics curriculum, too long ago.Does this mean that there is mode of long-range energy transport which can be technologically exploited? My gut feeling says that the theory is neglecting some major source of losses (absorption or scatter?) on the surface wave propagation, and/or its excitation. The historic experiment done on a lake surface seems rather idealized.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 04:32:14 pm
content: Quote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:51:45 amBonkers.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 04:39:14 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 17, 2018, 05:53:25 amThat's why others write comics and I don't. XD

author: EllisCo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 05:49:16 pm
content: A totally reasonable perspective. They may well have overlooked some major signal losses. Seems strange that they wouldn't have done some small scale tests BEFORE they bought 300 acres and built a full-scale tower. Wouldn't it have made more sense to do some experiments in somebody's garage, and have successive tests of progressive lengths? As it is now, they supposedly have 30 receivers set up around the globe to assess signal strength/losses for the current FCC licensed test. It's going to be pretty funny if they come back and say, "Sorry....there are losses we didn't account for. It won't work".One nagging question that I keep asking is about the people involved in Viziv.....at the top are two retired Air Force generals. I have to wonder why they just happened to wind up at an "energy" company. Is there some "death ray" aspect to this, as a potential weapons system (or missile/AA defense)? Is private investment in the company just a smokescreen for a "black-ops"/off-budget expenditure by the U.S. Department Of Defense? If so, why publish papers, set up a Website, and invite scrutiny? Why partner with Baylor University? There are a lot more questions than answers, about the technology, and Viziv's ultimate objective. Hopefully, they have some grand plan that will all come together. Otherwise, we can expect them all to be carted off to the loony bin.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 05:54:13 pm
content: I would like to see them run a 3-phase 25HP motor lifting a 2000 lb. load 10 ft. just 1/2mile from the from their tower.With comparable cost and efficiency to the local Power Company.Shouldn't be very complicated from your described views of their abilities.The General was managing a Health Care Plan.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 08:05:04 pm
content: I want to see their oscillator detonate spectacularly from trying to break the laws of physics.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 11:43:18 pm
content: QuoteSo they will use that instead of the solar panel to power the dehumidifier.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2018, 01:41:48 pm
content: Quote from: Johnny10 on November 17, 2018, 05:54:13 pmIf that happens I will insert the aforementioned 2000lb load into my anus.As for generals, read “the men who stare at goats”.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2018, 02:59:19 am
content: Quote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:49:16 pmThe Corums have been working on this for decades, with garage-experiment papers as early as the mid 80s, but finally performed longer-range testing in 2016 at Seneca Lake (I thought you read their paper?) Then, they published about their 2017 testing at 1.82MHz using a 1/30th-lambda tower, with progressive tests across distances 1, 2.5, 5, 8, 10, and 20 miles (short wood tower shown in their pdf physics paper, and their results plotted, perhaps you read a different paper?)2016https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7577497conference paper, w/photoshttp://vizivtechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TEXZON_Baylor_Corum16.pdfQuote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:49:16 pmIt worked at Seneca Lake, then worked on land as predicted up to twenty miles, using HF band. Note that their experimental results give a graph which lays almost perfectly atop the theory graph. But any really interesting results will come from the future VLF testing, where the propagation-path is many orders less lossy.For example, for known, conventional-RF behavior down at 100KHz the signal is still significant after passing once around the Earth (attenuated by something like ?5dB?) And down below 20KHz, the signal after a single pass around the Earth is known to come back at 95%, giving a cavity-Q of ~10. And, this low loss is even the conventional accepted value ...which Tesla-believers insist is a mistake caused by instrument artifacts. Supposedly N. Tesla found cavity-Q factors up in the hundreds/thousands. (Heh, maybe Tesla had accidentally discovered some sort ofunusual propagation mode,rather than employing Schumann ionospheric ducting.)Quote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:49:16 pmGood question.I suspect that Air Force people might approach Corum if they had access to (or at least heard about) the 1940s weapons work spawned by the Nikola Tesla papers. In one of the old Tesla biographies the author found that one AFB had a complete set of the Tesla docs in their classified library, and that they'd built and tested Tesla's infamous metal-particles "death ray." (Didn't say whether they got it working!) If the same papers contained all the info about building these transmitters, then Texzon may be an unofficial "tech transfer" effort, to get some old disused military tech out into public use. In the case of Dr. Corum, there would be no need to expose classified docs, since Corum had already analyzed Tesla's devices back in the late 1980s, from first principles using Maxwell eqns. No need for illegal military leaks.Quote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:49:16 pmBecause Corum is basically the world's foremost Tesla expert in academia. (I mean in phys/eng, not counting historians with no tech training.) And Corum is currently at Baylor.Quote from: EllisCo on November 17, 2018, 05:49:16 pmProbably their plan is the same as it has been for forty years: Look at Tesla's broadcast-power claims using actual physics, find that they're real after all, so get a bit of funding and mount some kilometer-scale experiments to vindicate Tesla empirical numbers. Then if it still works in practice as the physics shows in theory, patent and make moolah.The real question is, why didn't anyone do this a hundred years ago? Simple: to do that, physicists would have had to take Tesla seriously, and take a level-headed look into the math behind the devices.Without sneering first.Even today, most would rather die. (Just look at the kinds of responses here. Any contact with N. Tesla will ruin your reputation as a scientist.) The very first one to actually do this was James Corum in 1986. Note that he's an engineering prof, not a physicist. And then, he couldn't get his papers into any journal. (They're in conference proceedings, which as everyone knows, don't count!)

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2018, 12:51:47 pm
content: Just to play along.When the tower is transmitting its MegaWatts in all directions, can it even detect if there's someone hundreds of miles away trying to light a 20W bulb.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2018, 05:16:05 pm
content: Quote from: StillTrying on November 20, 2018, 12:51:47 pmThe man in the Think Tank is psychic, he knows all with his ESP.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2018, 05:45:07 pm
content: Also, would it be prone to a man-in-the-middle attack?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2018, 09:15:17 pm
content: If they decided to encrypt the Electro Magical Waves with blockchain, that might prevent people using pots and pans to steal the leccy, but perhaps more importantly get them about another 2 years of funding.Will the Eiffel and Blackpool towers have to be demolished because they're creating a short circuit.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2018, 12:09:01 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 20, 2018, 05:45:07 pmWell, they could just use Nikola Tesla's original plan.Those whose habit is to actually pick up a book may already know that this "transmitting power for free" was garbage, at least in part. Tesla planned on using his covert broadcasting technique to prevent power-theft. He talked about it all the time, calling it "Method of Individuation." Later in his famous 1916 legal deposition he gave details of an odd RF technique which was probably his secret trick: multiple resonators, similar to what we'd today call molecular IR spectra, or line-splitting resonance of coupled oscillators. Really cool stuff, from a physics/math perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some old PhD dissertation about it somewhere. It's a distant relation to FM, but occurring naturally (not needing an active modulator.) It involves normal radio but using several tuning knobs. It's also a distant relation to broadband FHSS or "wifi."So yes, Tesla was planning on broadcasting "encrypted" power, but the word wasn't invented yet, so he called it "Wave-complex." During his Wardenclyffe era hs was trying to sell it to the military as uncrackable secure comms. He also called it "Static Eliminator," and had photos of these weird hollow disk devices full of circuitry.In one interview Tesla mused about getting a phone order from an Australian factory for a certain energy quantity. The customer is billed, the receiver-codes are given, and then they couple-in to the nearfield standing wave to run their machinery. In that 1916 legal deposition Tesla said that a 2-knob receiver was just barely crack-able, but a 4-knob was not, and that he'd experimented with as many as 20-knob receivers, which would be the same as a combination lock with a 20-digit code.PS I've never encountered any of this stuff online anywhere. In other words, you's gonna haftaREAD A BOOK.(The Tick reference)EDIT: Oo oo, they've managed tosell it to Bahrain, while mentioningfrequency hopping encryption

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2018, 12:36:57 am
content: This was before advances in computation and cryptography understanding. And physics. Not only that Tesla liked to oversell as did people fascinated with the guy. He was like a kickstarter now. Have an idea, tell everyone about it, take their money and then not deliver.As they say, shit or get off the pot. I see lots of pots and lots of people sitting and have done for over 30 years but I haven’t seen one shit.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2018, 05:33:52 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 21, 2018, 12:36:57 amTesla didn't just want money, in fact he frequently turned down offers to buy his patents and whatnot. He was just a nuts visionary scientest. The man was definately a savant, but that made him think he knew everything so he had these rediculous grand plans. In reality, he had far from our full modern understanding of physics, so they went bust.Like his brush lamp super radio detector...which became the modern plasma globe desk toy (pointless bin).

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2018, 07:45:51 am
content: Oh he wanted money alright. Granted this was to invest and build ideas however. He was so irresponsible with it that he ended up living the last years of his life in a hotel with an impedance bridge as security after telling the hotel owner it was a death ray.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 12:41:28 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 21, 2018, 07:45:51 amNot reallyirresponsible.Just blatantly dishonest. And done while other investors watched.Tesla:I need a $million to develop worldwide radio.John Jacob Astor:Forget it. What about those fluorescent bulbs you've been going on about?Tesla:No,the FUTUREis going to be radioeverything, also Televisor plates in every home.JJ Astor:Are you sure you don't want to start a light-bulb company, and eat Edison's lunch?Tesla:we could even power dirigible-airship engines using radio. We know that blimps go much faster than airplanes, after all.Astor:Major investors would jump on any fluorescent-tubes factory project.Tesla:OK. I'll start a fluorescent bulbs factory.JJ Astor contributes millions, in today's dollarsTesla uses it to build a giant radio laboratory, out where nobody can see.JJ Astor cuts Tesla off after the first payment.Then suddenly, Astor won't answer Tesla's letters. Then, no other rich investors will touch Tesla anymore.A great mystery! Tesla never figured out what happened. Then, he contracted with JP Morgan to build a radio station to cover a nearby Yacht race. It was 300ft tall, made of railroad ties, with a huge multi-story brick building to house the power supply. It could cover yacht races thousands of miles away! And also power their engines!JP Morgan stopped answering Tesla's letters too.---Now here's some actual footage of Tesla's death ray. Honest!https://youtu.be/EdD3MRvBvc4

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 01:29:35 am
content: I have no idea if this thread is mocking Tesla zealots, or siding with them? Never understood the fascination with the man either, its amazing how many myths there are about him, even the Oatmeal writer perpetuates a lot of them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 08:01:42 am
content: It’s easy to sell hope and hype.Jesus started it with the old “come to my kickstarter launch and I’ll show you how to turn water into wine”. Dick.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 03:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on November 22, 2018, 01:29:35 amThe mindless zealots are zeloting, and the mindless scoffers are mocking. But many of us here are ignoring both.It's like fans of RP Feynman. Feynman really did do Nobel-worthy physics. He also really did hit on Pan Am stewardesses, and get beaten up in dive bars in Buffalo. We applaud! "Tesla and the Bellboy" appears a quite-accurate description of N. Tesla in his late 1930s pigeon-fancier period. It was made in the actual Hotel New Yorker!Quote from: Buriedcode on November 22, 2018, 01:29:35 amFirst encounter Tesla as a kid. Build a flyback-transformer version and light up some flourescents! Dearly wish you could afford some 810 tubes and plate transformers on your fifty-cents allowance. Then later, discover that G. Marconi really did steal Tesla's fundamental breakthrough. Marconi Inc. never sold his own patented transmitters and receivers, he only sold Tesla Coils, after renaming them as "Spark transmitters." In radio history, the entire Morse code erawas based on Tesla coils, see article in 73 magazine. Or as Marconi called them, "Oscillation Transformers." Tesla berated Marconi for the use of 100KHz broadcast freq, when his broadcast-power only works at well below 20KHz. Then Marconi moved even higher, but still using electrically-short antennas. Really, we have Nikola Tesla to thank for amateur radio shortwave, since Marconi was stealing Tesla's ground/VLF philosophy, and the high frequencies were obviously useless garbage. Give them all to the amateur community, while the pros stay well below 500KHz. (Heh, too bad the hams couldn't keep outsiders from discovering that the waves shorter than 300 meters were actually useful.)As for Tesla fanboys, it's not impossible to avoid the myths. Just track down Tesla's actual writings and interviews, while ignoring all the words put in his mouth by the mindless fans and hoards of skeptics. Also it helps if you're a skeptic yourself, and recognize a huge fallacy when you see it. In particular, the well-poisoning and straw-man are coming fast and thick here; being used to pseudo-debunk Tesla. Heh, where Tesla is concerned, we even have a new type of fallacy: "ad hominem directed at claims!" Don't try to expose actual flaws, if instead it's much easier to badmouth the claims; smearing them with negative emotional descriptions. Our goal must be to avoid any clear-headed analysis, if instead we only want topersuade.Here's an excellent little article which shows the central theme of scientific criticism:Clinical approach to debate

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 04:11:06 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 22, 2018, 08:01:42 ambd139I am a big fan of you that's why I did not report your post. Can you please leave Jesus in peace? It's not that hard. Many thanks in advance.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 04:59:23 pm
content: It was a facetious jab at the irrelevance of sales pitches rather than Jesus. No offence intended. My apologies.

author: JoC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 09:53:01 am
content: Gen. Richard Devereaux, Executive Vice President, Viziv Technologies, explaining the technology.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 07:45:24 pm
content: Another promo vid? Really? You poor noob spammer trying to promote a dead dumb idea. Just trying to keep your little scam afloat?Newsflash - you won't all float down here. Things that violate physics or practicality will be meticulously and scientifically dismantled here (and were in this thread).

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 07:53:07 pm
content: Indeed. 1 hour of crap. Show it working and show us independent validation it works or to quote our Scottish brethren here in the UK, "get t'eh fuck".

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:01:07 pm
content: If it looks like a scam and quacks like a scam, then it probably is a scam.http://alternativeinvestmentcoach.com/investment-scams/

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 03:39:20 pm
content: Pl see my response above.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 03:44:04 pm
content: Hi,But I was under an impression that ZW's are a real thing?Are a case of Maxwell's equations with proper boundary conditions?I do not think the ZW themselves are a problem here. In my research, I found that the earth will disperse the energy in contours and hence the efficiency would be low.A Metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil) would be able to support a ZN power transmission of upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 03:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: wbeaty on November 22, 2018, 03:04:34 pm

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 04:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 16, 2018, 02:03:16 pmI have nothing to do with Texzon or Vizviz.I even emailed guys from Baylor, no response.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 07:06:43 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 02, 2019, 03:44:04 pmA metal sheet of limited dimensions, say an aluminium foil (oven foil), would also be able to support aDC current transmissionof upto 66%-20% efficiency between a range of 2.7m to 15m. What's the point?And what does it tell us about the validity of the concept to transmit waves across the inhomogeneous, much less conducting, corrugated surface of the Earth, over distances many orders of magnitude larger?

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 07:49:20 pm
content: It's just the grain of truth behind the BS, that's all.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2019, 03:43:45 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 02, 2019, 07:06:43 pmInteresting. But the point here is that coupled WPT systems do not support multi receiver power up with the same efficiency as they do for single receiver.1. The peak splitting happens2. Misalignment of Tx and Rx takes a massive toll3. Partial metal shields such as ships, shipping containers, industrial pipelines etc hinder EM based Power transfer due to Faraday shielding or EM shielding effect.So, to counter the above issues, one simple way is to get rid of "coupled" and "radiation" element in the transmission, altogether. Therefore, a wave based solution is desirable.As far as validity is concerned,1. The ZW equi-phases sink into the lossy dielectric media-. The system I developed shows that property. See the figures attached[in my previous responses], where an ANSYS HFSS simulation of the same shows this property.2. The ZW specifically exhibits evanescent field decay property -.3. The slow attenuation rate of Ez(Y) component of the field-.If the said company's system exhibits all the above properties, then it is indeed a ZW system, else, it is at the best a Single Wire Power Transfer system.DC Transmission:The point here is, you can always use a cable to transmit power, but then, WPT was all about reducing the wire involved. If one looks at Tesla's earliest patent of 1900, he wasn't referring to a "wireless" but a "less-wire" system and hence the concept of single wire transmission came up. e.g. Goubau line.The entire point of research with proper scientific rigor is to increase the range of transmission, to see an advantage over DC. One key point is to go below 1MHz range to increase the distance. Unfortunately, the half-wave resonator system would become large. Earth is an inhomogeneous media, however at lower frequencies is acts as a conductor a fact well noted by Schelkunoff, Barlow and Sarkar et.al-.I donot want to conclude anything specific here, but, am open to do a research on this. There might be a caveat somewhere, which needs to be explored.Corrugated SurfaceThey are known to support Surface waves, ZW may be not that much. But, then ZW, Surface waves and Surface Plasmons are all classified in the same category.PS: I ran out of space at my lab to experiment beyond 15m. Also the largest ship container Hyundai Heavy Industry(HHI) threw at me was 14.83m, thats the High-Q container we are talking about. The thickest metal they sent me was 80 mm, used for hull at HHI. I built a radio system for voice communication, based on the above concept, which covers multiple decks without the use of a repeater or relay[320 m range, LNG carrier ship and Dolphin semisub oil rig]. This is not possible for a mono-pole motorola system, unless a relay or repeater is used.References1. S. Schelkunoff, IRE Trans. on Antenna and Propagation 7, 133-139 (1959)2. T. K. Sarkar, M. N. Abdallah, M. Salazar-Palma and W.M. Dyab, IEEE Antennasand Propagation Magazine 59, 77-93(2017).3. H.M. Barlow, and A.L. Cullen, Proceed. of the IEE - Part III: Radio and Comm.Engineering 100, 329-341 (1953).4. Zenneck, J. Uber die Fortpflanzung ebener elektromagnetischer Wellen l¨angs einer ¨ebenen Leiterfl¨ache und ihre Beziehung zur drahtlosen Telegraphie. Ann. d. Phys. 23,846-866 (1907).5. Sommerfeld, A. N. Uber die Ausbreitung der Wellen in der drahtlosen Telegraphie. ¨Ann. d. Phys. 28, 665-736(1909).6. Jangal,F., Bourey, N., Darces, M., Issac, F. & H´elier, M. Observation of Zenneck-LikeWaves over a Metasurface Designed for Launching HF Radar Surface Wave. Hindawi,International J. of Antennas and Propagation 2016,1 (2016).7. Jeon,T.I., Zhang, J., & Grischkowsky, D. THz Zenneck surface wave (THz surfaceplasmon) propagation on a metal sheet. Appl. Phys. Lett. 86, 161904 (2005).8. Goubau,G. Surface Waves and Their Application to Transmission Lines. Journal ofAppl. Physics 21, 1119(1950).9. S.K. Oruganti, O. Kaiyrakhmet and F. Bien, URSI Asia-Pacific Radio Science Conference, 318(2016).

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2019, 10:21:38 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 03, 2019, 03:43:45 amIncrease your conductor lenght by pi(), by using a circular hoop (supported horizontally, with vertical axis.) Rigid zinc "flashing" those rolls of flexible metal from the carpenter store, or perhaps extreme heavy-gauge foil from online restaurant suppliers ($90 per roll.) Bonus: this simulates planetary resonance modes but without the un-physical high-Z sharp edge at the terminus.I think for worldwide broadcast power, investors would be more impressed by a "round Earth," rather than a long rod or a sheet on a table. The VLF version of your single-wire transmission is a long narrow Tesla secondary-coil. Hence, the 1-D model of VLF Earth would be a Tesla secondary-coil bent into a ring: a torus-coil wound on a plastic form. Then no need for 13.56 or 27.1 MHz, use 200KHz or similar, with dirt-cheap signal generators and instruments.Quote from: SaiSharma on February 02, 2019, 04:09:57 pmI think you're fighting against irrationally-held positions. With emotional entanglements driving opinions, "the Tesla stuff"must be wrong no matter what, and therefore youmustbe a company shill without question. No other explanation can be tolerated. In that case, no evidence you present, and no argument you make can even slightly shift the irrational disbelief. See thebead-on-wire analogy from Encyclopedia of Ignorance, RA Lyttelton 1977."Fallen-bead" minds cannot respond to evidence; they've gone over the nonlinear cliff and can never step back.Imagine the Wright Brothers in 1905, mixed in with a large community of crackpot flying-machine inventors and scam artists. If an investor wanted to put money into in flying machine R&D, they'd waste it on flapping leather bat-wings project with wood-buring steam engine. (The Wright Brothers were smart, and gave up early. They funded everything themselves.) Tesla, the Wrights, and also 1930s Caltech rocket engines, which had to be called "jets," because otherwise everyone would sneer at Caltech people wanting to built flash-gordon pulp-SciFi spaceships and fly to Uranus. Just like JPL, "jet" propulsion labs never worked on jets, it's founders were rocket men, but the in 1930s the word "Rocket" was nearly as taboo as bigfoot or little green mars-men. "JATO" units could not be called rocket-assisted takeoff, or the military would just laugh, and turn away. (See? Caltech people were actually smart!) Same deal here. Irrational disbelief, but triggered by the word "Tesla," rather than "rocket," or "flying machine."At least you're not heavily into Aliester Crowley magical spells, like certain Caltech rocket designers were!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2019, 10:45:30 pm
content: From the perspective of rationality we don’t hold certain terms as instant discredit. What happens is we acknowledge that even the best of minds does tend to come up with a load of shit sometimes. Many times, hundreds of lives of work have been written off instantly by competing theories and ideas. That’s the march of knowledge. Flogging a dead horse is an obsession of the human race. Each and every development should be treated with the most critical of thinking. Look at what happens to “kirchoff is for the birds”But fundamentally, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And there is currently none.And by evidence we expect to see independently reproducible evidence. One thing that the crackpots tend to miss.Anyone can write a patent and a paper and build a mechanical Turk and solicit funding for it. My entire native industry, software, is based on selling an idea which may not work. Science needs to be held to a higher standard.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 02:02:54 am
content: Also, most here are engineers. We deal with practical ideas and technologies, rather than new or novel theories that have little potential to benefit our lives. There is a lot of pseudoscience about - more than ever - and much of it has latched on to Tesla ideas. But there is also serious research into wireless power, no-one here has claimed otherwise. The reason for the cynicism is pretty obvious - we have yet to see any prototypes or systems with reasonable efficiency and scalability.People posting such ideas on this forum either want something, be it funding, collaboration, recognition, or hero-worship, or are just letting folks know current research. I'm not sure what kind of response is expected.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 03:48:02 am
content: Quote from: wbeaty on February 05, 2019, 10:21:38 pmThanks for the reply and the interesting suggestion about the experimental setup.I think the Tesla cult has done a massive disservice to the man's work. A friend and colleague of mine once went to this Long Island conference. He was perplexed by the Tesla cult, they all claimed Tesla was an Alien and was a commander sent by some reptilian race.I missed the entertainment due to Visa rejection by the US immigration[ I am from India, but, was a student in Korea, that complicated the scene at immigration]. haha!I think the use of Earth as a medium to transmit power over long distanceswill continue to be elusive/unrealizable. There will always be that few factors which will hamper any such realization.However, limited distances would just be fine. Also, one has to understand that reactive power will be a bummer, when one tries to send power over long distances over earth ground.In my limited experience, voltage oscillation across the receivers(Rx) shall always be a big challenge. Only way out of it is to facilitate an electrical length across the Rx terminals in the order of quarter to half of Lambda.I emailed the folks associated with the said company [see attachment]. No response, perhaps they dont want to comment  or perhaps not.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 10:08:54 am
content: Quote from: wbeaty on February 05, 2019, 10:21:38 pm

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 04:16:53 am
content: Quote from: CJay on February 06, 2019, 10:08:54 am

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 08:06:24 am
content: I was clear earlier. Independent reproduction of the experiments by a reputable team of engineers and scientists.There is so much crackpottery in this space that you have to do this minimally to even look at credibility.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 01:16:20 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 07, 2019, 08:06:24 amIEEE, Nature etc. qualifies as a good peer reviewed system according to you?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 02:38:58 pm
content: Not necessarily. There’s a lot of trash coming out of there. If CERN, NASA or NPL reproduced it and published experimental data I might have some confidence in the idea.But that’s not going to happen because this is all monetised heavily for absolute control of the idea rather than loose patent licensing and royalties. The types of people running these projects tend to clam up when someone approaches them about this.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 05:25:07 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on February 06, 2019, 02:02:54 amAs am I. (Heh, Engineers Allowed Only, since physicists won't touch this stuff even with SOMEBODY ELSES ten foot pole!Professional scientists are actually smart, and they clearly see that any contact with N. Tesla will drag down their own reputations, rather than elevating the Tesla stuff. Note well, the Corums who are behind all of this, the Texzon project, are electrical engineers.Quote from: Buriedcode on February 06, 2019, 02:02:54 amSo you've already made up your mind, don't bother presenting counterevidence? Also, I usually find that people attacking "Novel theories" don't have any idea of what those theories actually are. They've refused to inspect the evidence, having made up their minds based well beforehand.I'm curious: you haven't read any of the Corums' many engineering papers on this topic right? Or even their latest one? With their replication of the General Electric 1927 antenna test which disproved Tesla's claims? (The Corums even performed it at the original 1927 site in upstate NY!) [oops, edit, that was 1936. And by Bell Labs, not GE.]If not, then why bother to participate in the discussion? (I don't mean just you.)Again (and again, and again,) for those who do want to discuss, the recent one ishttps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7577497.For non-engineers, the non-paywall version ishttp://web.archive.org/web/20161019214341/www.texzontechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TEXZON_Baylor_Corum16.pdfQuote from: Buriedcode on February 06, 2019, 02:02:54 amI think a major reason for the cynicism comes from listening to critics who insist that there is no evidence, and there aren't any prototypes. If we listen to them andbelieeeeeve, mah childrenthen why bother even looking? Reading an obviously crackpot paper from people with no tech training would be just too disgusting. But in reality there are a bunch of phd-level engineering papers from the 80s and 90s, plus a recent 2014 replication of the antenna field-test which supposedly settled the 1926 controversy, and disproved Tesla (by disproving Zenneck.) [edit oops, that was 1936, by Bell Labs.] Heh, they disproved the disproof in 2014. The Corum's disproof is the entire reason for the giant plastic tower in Texas. Those who refuse to read unusual tech papers would never know this, and wouldn't understand why anybody sane would want to discuss such a disgusting crackpot topic.Quote from: Buriedcode on February 06, 2019, 02:02:54 amOr, we want to actually discuss the current research posted here (the Corum bros. new field test, the $100M project to build a pilot plant,) preferably without all the ad hominem coming from multiple eevblog members.We also want to make you one of us, one of ussss.Begin to take N. Tesla seriously. So then all your friends turn against you, and you develop teh Crazy Eyes! Start playing with kilowatt RF amplifiers in your basement! And also, we want to see inside that darned Milford TX tower (giant VLF antenna made of plastic girders! You watched their video, right? The one with the entire slideshow of the interior?) [edit, I pasted some stills here:http://amasci.com/graphics/st/]If you have no interest in high-power VLF global-wireless stuff, or tests of exotic bizarre antennas, or the century-old Tesla controversy regarding just that ...then it's understandable that you wouldn't participate here, or have any need to track down the engineering papers or the field-test data. That's why it's in Dodgy section, where nobody sane need ever look.But with the "skeptics," they have no excuse. Decision prior to inspection, outright refusal to inspect evidence, plus a stream of logical fallacies, ad hominem being the least of them."There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." - H. SpencerPS That Texzon tower slideshow on youtube is cool, just ignore the lecture and skip ahead to the good part like this:https://youtube.com/watch?v=wFiW2lqdnlM&t=654

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 06:01:17 pm
content: What about my request for published experimental data and reproduction via a national level agency or laboratory? That’s all I demand.Extraordinary ideas require extraordinary proof.Or in layman’s terms: shit or get off the pot.A side note: one of the ridiculous things about this idea is the fact it doesn’t actually have a viable commercial benefit even if it does work. Every other alternative is better on paper even under ideal conditions. The compromises are pretty poor. Even burning dead dinosaurs is commercially more viable.Edit: incidentally Tesla did some excellent work but every idea should be treated critically or we end up with homeopathy, religion and Brazilian butt surgery.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 07:06:57 pm
content: Quote from: wbeaty on February 07, 2019, 05:25:07 pmSure! Working prototype is key to success for inventor. Where's small scale prototype like 10W bulb at 10m distance? With efficiency numbers shown? Those field strength measurements in paper you referred to, shows > 30dB loss at 1km distance. W/o doubt I am cynic here because "wireless energy transfer" network having 99.9% losses is very ineffective to say it politely.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 07:21:47 pm
content: At that loss, I'm going to start tying 18650s to pigeons and issuing people with nets.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 08:08:23 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on February 07, 2019, 07:06:57 pmIt‘s not only wireless, but also nearly energy-less. Success on all fronts! ;-)

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 12:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 07, 2019, 02:38:58 pmI agree that a lot of crap is coming out from them.I also agree that an extra ordinary theory needs an extraordinary proof.However, as far as I know, Zenneck wave's physical existence has been under controversy from a long time(almost a century).I shared my data with a lab at University at Buffalo NY. They have confirmed my results, infact we found a new way to improve them as well.Also, I am not alien to controversies, I literally fought 4 years to solve the riddle and suffice the critics.I repeat, the said company's technologymust confirmthe following three important physical phenomena in order to qualify as a Zenneck wave:1. The equi-phases of the E-field must sink into a lossy dielectric.2. They must exhibit an evanescent field decay property away from the interface (earth-air).3. Slow attenuation rate in the transverse direction of the interface.Else, its at the best a single wire transmission system just like the Goubou line.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 03:50:55 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 08, 2019, 12:54:34 pmWhere is peer review (document)?QuoteIf Zenneck wave proven to work as expected - then what? I would love to see how it can beat existing wire-based power grid. Is there any paper demonstrating feasibility of Zenneck wave to power let's say, small town? Oh, wait... in the end it will be wireless power for open field IoT sensors, for applications where huge power loss (>99.9%) is not an issue. We already got wireless IoT power for indoors: uBeam.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2019, 05:18:14 am
content: Quote from: ogden on February 08, 2019, 03:50:55 pmIt shall take a month's time for all the reviews to be complete and then only I can share the outcome. In my earlier post, I shared some results , you can check them out.In the meanwhile I am waiting for ArXiv to announce my submission.I am skeptical that it would ever replace wireline system completely.It can replace some wirelines aboard the marine vessels, space-payloads, IoT device charging- home and industry.The issue of long distance power transfer can only be solved using a Laser based Power transfer system or Single-wire transmission(again limited).

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2019, 09:12:48 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 10, 2019, 05:18:14 amSo you admit that you don't have signed peer review. As simple as that.QuoteCome on. Arxiv is just library for scientists. Papers there are not peer-reviewed but just moderated byvolunteers.QuoteHere we go. ZW expert do not agree to "TexzonViziv Wireless Power" claims: "Power the planet and Bring Light to the World".QuoteYou just demonstrate why many are cynical skeptics - because of nonsense claims like yours. In space they use silver-plated conductors to get impedance of power wires down but you suggest to use lossy Zenneck Wave?QuoteLaser based power transfer to replace wires? - Again nonsense.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 03:37:33 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on February 10, 2019, 09:12:48 am1. While I dont have a peer review yet, it managed to pass through the nature comm editorial process. Which implies, that the guys sitting there saw some worth in it. Infact it was transferred by the Nature editor to Nature comm.2. Again, there exists an option with Nature comm, to transmit the manuscript under consideration to the community recognized preprint servers. That implies a "through proper channel" process.3. I always took a strong and clear stance, that in order for it to be a proper ZN wave, they have to conform to 3 necessary conditions.4. The system I designed has already been in production with Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI). Again, the space payload thing has been quoted from Dr. George E Ponchak. He commented that during WPTC 2014, where I had presented my work.So, you can take that issue with him. ZW is not lossy when conductors are around, thats exactly my work is all about.5. Laser based WPT is again from Prof.Dr. Zoya Popvic's work at University of Colorado Springs, Boulder. Kindly follow her work, before dismissing it as "all hat no cattle".

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 06:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 11, 2019, 03:37:33 pmOk. At least Springer Naturedenied accusationsAnyway when you get proper peer review - then we talk.QuoteWhen theory says that ZW is many orders of magnitude less efficient than wire, it does not actually matter - they manage to match theory or not.QuoteWhat system? Any pointers to information? Efficiency figures?QuoteI can't find him in the author index.https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?punumber=6828591QuoteZW is lossless? How's that? From point A to point B you can generate/transmit/receive ZW power with better efficiency than wires?QuoteIt is obvious that one may transmit some (hilariously small amount of) power using laser and PV cells. To compete with wires - you need nearly- 100% efficient PV cells, laser and fiber. I do not recall reading tech news about such. When laser power transfer will be more efficient than wire, humanity most likely will not need power transfer at all.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 03:03:10 am
content: Quote from: ogden on February 11, 2019, 06:57:09 pm1. Is it not the thing I said earlier? may be we can share my manuscript via email. I am rather happy to take a Physicist's approach. i.e. to first demonstrate a concept, master it and then Engineer it.2. Using ZN or Surface waves on earth is way different than using them at metal-dielectric or metal-air interfaces. For SW they have been using corrugated metal structures.3. Before we talk about efficiency, we need to understand the system requirements a bit first:(a) Conventional fire alarm systems on the marine vessels rely on powerline, as well as the health check requires the cable as well. They wanted to do away with cables for the fire alarm system and go for a wireless solution.(b) For wireless system to realize, the metal walls and doors stand as a hindrance. EM shielding.While efficiency is important, however, primary target is a cable less power up and health monitoring. HHI wanted low power transmission and health monitoring signals to be sent to the fire alarm.Now coming to your question:Theone to one efficiency is just ~56%with my current design. But the multi receiver efficiency is (1 Tx and 2 Rx )66% at 2 m across a 40 mm thick metal door. The water tightening door uses neoprene rubber gasket, thus making the scenario of a leaky shield. I send the ZN wave to transmit power along the metal.You might want to ask,i. Where is the rest of the power getting lost?ii. The power which is being lost, not harmful to human operators around? Does it comply with ICNIRP ratings?iii. Any field measurements done using state-of-the-art ICNIRP approved equipment?I have asked these questions to myself as well.So here is what I came up with based on HFSS analysis, some intuition and experiment based measurements.- The system which I designed, sets up a Transverse magnetic (TM-Mode) wave, this implies that the wave is kind of spread across the metal. So, all the power is propagating, once the metal reaches its end point, the sharp corners are going to cause radiation of the wave.- In order to prevent that, you can increase the number of receiving units, as it is a wave based power transmission, there is no issue of freq peak splitting. As we no longer rely on coupling as a mode of transmission. Also been observed in the studies by Noda &Shinoda[] and Kurs et al[]. These two studies pertain to weakly coupled WPT systems. So, in principle you can achieve a very high efficiency by increasing the number of Rx. Ofcourse, there would be limitations, needs further investigation. But, right now as a researcher, I need to bring a proof of concept. Therefore, I only restricted myself to two receivers.- I used the NARDA field analyzer to measure the radiation levels. I wont be able to share that data on the forum, but, I can send you via email.- The findings were that the system shows ~36% lower E-field values and ~80% lower H-field values than the permissible radiation levels. However, when I increase the power levels beyond 100 watts, the radiation levels reach the permissible levels. But, then am using only two receivers. However, when using 65 watts, single receiver and multiple receiver there is a solid difference is radiation levels.4. George E. Ponchak was the chair of the conference. He had no keynote sessions there. We spoke at lengths during the break times and post-dinner.5. I already answered this point in the point 3. ZN is lossy when we have earth, it is therefore I have been skeptical about power the globe claims. In terms of metals, its not lossy(relative). Unfortunately, the current Transceiver I use, loses power due to radiation at the metal corners and eddy current generated in the metal due to the primary coil. I had limited success in reducing losses,by adjusting the spacing and by introducing a ferrite core.6. Please take that issue with Zoya Popovic. I have zero understanding of how the Laser system might be engineered.Am not much of an engineer, I am more interested in the physics. Whatever I have spoken at the moment has more to do with Science rather than Engineering.Reference: Noda, A. and Shinoda, H. Selective Wireless Power Transmission Through High- Flat Waveguide-Ring Resonator on 2-D Waveguide Sheet, IEEE Trans. Micro. Theory and Tech.,59,2011 Kurs, A., Moffatt, R., & Soljaˇci´c, M. Simultaneous mid-range power transfer to multiple devices. App. Phys. Lett., 96, 044102-3(2010).

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 08:36:19 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 12, 2019, 03:03:10 amIt is not about approach. It is about truth - if you do not have proper peer review, just say so.QuoteAs a matter of fact, this discussion is about exactly that - ZN or Surface waves on earth. Your research is very, very specific case of ZN over metal/conductive surfaces.QuoteReally? By power transfer efficiency I mean power supplied to transmitter versus power available for downstream load behind receiver. Meaning if transmitter (device) consumes 100W then you shall be able to power 56W load connected to receiver. Is it so in your case? Explain please what you mean by 56% efficiency, state actual power numbers as well.QuoteNot only engineers but scientists shall have common sense as well. It does not matter how the Laser system might be engineered if it is widely known that Lasers are inherently power-inefficient. I would not even talk about potential failure modes of such power transmission system, in case of high power (> 100W).

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 09:18:20 am
content: @ogden -- I think you are getting increasingly stubborn and unreasonable in this discussion. You have made your points, SaiSharma has provided detailed and honest answers. Time to let it rest.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 09:37:31 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 12, 2019, 09:18:20 amSo you believe that 56% efficiency isdetailed and honest answer? SaiSharma are welcome to provide detailed and honest answer to my question where 56% comes from, without your insults.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 10:13:07 am
content: I'm with ogden here. This is a number pulled out of thin air (excuse the pun).

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 10:51:30 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 12, 2019, 10:13:07 amOnly focusing on the 56% question now is quite beside the point.Just read through ogden's last half-dozen posts or so. He is giving SaiSharma the third degree here, interrogation-style with quite aggressive phrasing. That is uncalled for. While I can't comment on the validity (or lack thereof) of SaiSharma's results, I admire his patience and self-restraint in this "discussion".

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 11:13:42 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 12, 2019, 10:51:30 amIn case you did not notice - it was only question in my last post. Anyway I heard you, will try to preserve snowflakes. Just don't be unreasonable yourself, do not (further) pollute thread with offtopic. Let's get 56% efficiency explanation.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 11:33:28 am
content: Indeed. Efficiency is the maiQuote from: ebastler on February 12, 2019, 10:51:30 amThe 56% is a key factor of the viability of the idea so it is not beside the point.I think that both sides are handling it well. Extraordinary ideas require deep scrutiny. I am regularly subject to similar levels of scrutiny on my consultancy outcomes because they can make or break and idea or business. This is perfectly acceptable.You wait until you get an investor grilling for non delivery. I got death threats once

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 01:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 12, 2019, 09:18:20 amThanks. I have been under constant scanner in my professional life as well. Its normal for me to face aggressive grilling sessions.BTW, I love Paulaner Hefe, I drank them a lot when I was doing masters at Darmstadt.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 01:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 12, 2019, 10:13:07 amGuys, I understand that there would be scrutiny and no offense taken. Koreans trained meThere as couple of published peer reviewed papers by me back in 2014 and 2016. IET Electronics letters and URSI, but they were not claiming a ZW wave back then.Anyway coming to the number 56%.This number has not been pulled out of thin air.Way back in 2014-15, this number used to be as low as 12%-16%.Back in 2014, for an input power of 20 watts on the Tx, I used to get barely 3.2 watts on the load end on the energy meter.I also got stuck with one typical problem, i.e. the grounding!If I used a lambda/8 length wire and a flat GI metal sheet lying on the ground arrangement connected to one end of the terminal of the Rx, the efficiency would jump to 33-34%.Thats when I realized that the TM wave makes the metal sheet a quasi- equipotential surface.The RLC lumped elements would not do anything to help the situation. There used to be simply not enough voltage oscillations across the terminals of the Rx. This is because, the damn thing needs an electrical length across its terminals.HFSS simulation would not show up any resonance peak either, but the VNA would. Then came good old Balanis to rescue.July 2018:One fine morning while taking a massive dump in July 2018 (after a very frustrated night of beer drinking), I attached a Tesla Transformer "like" coil arrangement to the existing ground backed impedance resonator on HFSS. The simulation started showing up the peak at the expected freq zone.In couple of days from that time, I optimized my design and built it.When I measured the I/P Power (20 watts) and O/P (11.4 watts)using the energy meter, I got the Tx to 1 Rx efficiency of 56%. Then I used a second Rx and the overall efficiency jumped to 65%-67% range. I also built a makeshift partial shield box, it worked through the shield as well with a marginal drop of 3-4% in efficiency.Until that point in time, people (folks at my Startup) called it various names-e.g. capacitive system, radiative system etc.The HFSS clearly showed the ZW equiphases, Slow attenuation rate of E-field in the transverse direction and evanescent field decay away from the metal-air interface.When I showed those results, the external expert was extremely impressed and said, "Sai, you dont have to prove anything to any of these skeptics. They clearly have no idea about Physics"Long story short, I was kicked out of my startup, as the CEO acquired all my 7 patents from my PhD Uni. His management team didnt want to work with me as they thought, they gathered everything needed to do it themselves.Lets wait for the peer review, if it gets through I will share the entire set of results. If it doesnt get through, I will just hang my boots and leave.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 06:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 12, 2019, 01:33:17 pmoutput_power = 0.56*input_power? That's your answer?You mentioned arxiv, nature comm, 3rd party university. I was expecting pointer to your research or just excerpts. At least provide pages of your research that describes setup, results and analysis.QuoteName of the startup or pointer to it's web page? Web links to patents?To you and your advocates I can honestly admit - you did not produce *anything* that would confirm your results or even existence of your research as such.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 11:35:22 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on February 12, 2019, 06:33:45 pmlol. Now you sound like a pissed off teenager, trying to pick up crap out of thin air and trying to create arguments just to win it. Do you really think that I do not know how to measure power do you?Thats exactly why I replied to you that way.Also, why the heck should I show you anything related to the name of my company etc? Are you my employer? Investor?As I said, lets wait for the peer review to be done.Also, none of you are going to be my investors anytime soon, so it would be great to stick to a certain level of decorum.If you can argue on facts, then, you are welcome. Else your behaviour is at the best like my narcissistic ex.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 01:02:47 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 12, 2019, 11:35:22 pmLOL. Trying personal insults? You sound like bullshit artist pushed into the corner. It is very important how exactly and using what hardware you measure input/output power. Seems, you have absolutely nothing to show. You don't even specify frequency BTW.QuoteProvide link to your research so we can read it. You mentioned more than one journal and publisher, yet cannot produce single pointer to your research paper. It is suspicious to say it politely.QuoteQuoteWhenyou provide facts - somebody can argue. At the moment you did not provide any facts, just bullshit: that it is possible to wirelessly transmit 11.4 watts over 2m metallic door with 56% efficiency using lambda/8 antennas with Tesla Transformer "like" coil attached to the existing ground backed impedance resonator on HFSS.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 01:47:23 am
content: Quote from: ogden on February 13, 2019, 01:02:47 amI wont share any specifics, until review is done. How difficult is that for you to understand?Its so easy to call someone a bullshit artist.I have nothing to gain on this forum. I was expecting a sane discussion, not some "fuck_u, nah_fuck_u, nah_nah_fuck_u" game.I can easily see, you have no clue about Zenneck wave exactly.But, you are pretending to be a Skeptic. You cant be a skeptic until you have some inkling.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 02:07:14 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 13, 2019, 01:47:23 amMy understanding of Zenneck wave does not match yours definitely. As you do not provide facts we may have discussion about, our discussion is over unless youactuallypublish your paper (after peer review).

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 05:51:48 am
content: Quote from: ogden on February 13, 2019, 02:07:14 amI realize, you have nothing to offer in this discussion. You have so far behaved like an unruly teenage keyboard warrior, nothing more.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 08:12:34 am
content: I’m going to sit and wait patiently. SaiSharma you answered the questions perfectly. Thank you and good luck.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 08:26:16 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 07, 2019, 06:01:17 pmSarcasm? If you're actually serious ...then you're going to disbelieve forever, since no lab/agency has any reason to work on the topic. Not without serious funding (and perhaps not even then!) In other words, exactly who would pay for such work?QuoteUm... the original quote speaks ofextraordinary evidence."Proof" is for mathematicians; in physics any idea, sane or weird, just requiresgood solidsupporting evidence, not exotic and special "extraordinary" evidence.Here's a bit of Trivia: M. Truzzi, one of the co-founders of CSICOP, was the author of the above quote, but later expressed regrets. He discovered it to be a recipe for bias. Why? "Extraordinary-ness" is totally subjective! Everyone has a different threshold. I see a worse problem: to disbelieve anything, just reject all confirming evidence, saying "Nope, evidence still notextraordinary!" Instead why don't we all just use a level playing field: treat all ideas the same, always with the same high evidential requirements. Don't try to make bias normal and acceptable."When a man finds a conclusion agreeable, he accepts it without argument, but when he finds it disagreeable, he will bring against it all the forces of logic and reason."-Thucydides. Poor Dr. Truzzi. He could never take back the meme he'd unwittingly released.QuoteHow so?We presume they intend to sell KWh, while preventing power-theft (employing the original method Tesla described, coded frequency-hopping. Or even perhaps a modern one.) The stuff about Tesla giving away free power was fictional. Tesla expected everyone to pay. Also, we presume that the efficiency must rival that of continental power-grids, otherwise all bets are off. If efficiency is middling, then the system is only economical where large producers or users might exist, yet it's far too expensive to run power lines. Tesla's original plan was to harness a huge number of remote mountain waterfalls: wireless hydro not fossil fuels.The Texzon hype is discussing emergency backup power service: when disaster brings down sections of the conventional grid, or if you're invading a hostile country while destroying their existing power grid, you can still immediately use (perhaps expensive) wireless power service. No fuel-truck supply-chain to keep the army rolling.Heh, with mideast oil trillionaires involved, they can pay to run their vacation mansions in the middle of jungles or on mountaintops, yet not be trucking in the fuel to run gasoline power plants. Perhaps do like Gernsback and HG Wells, have a huge cluster of always-running helicopters, set up tennis courts and gardens up there. Price be damned, same as with yachts etc. (The Texzon tower cost ?? $50M, but compare that to the pricier yachts or winter palaces.)

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 09:40:03 am
content: Quote from: ogden on February 07, 2019, 07:06:57 pmThat's impossible, because if we want to light a bulb locally, we also light the same bulb anywhere on Earth. The system isnot radio, and it only works if planetary resonant modes are being driven. Without that, we end up with a VLF transmitter with a too-small antenna and microwatt ERP. Tesla (supposedly) excited planetary resonance at Colorado Springs, a few tens of kilowatts with a giant VLF oscillator. I'm not aware of any methods for making it any smaller than that. In the 1980s Robert Golka built a vaguely similar setup, but didn't have full information, and it never worked at all ( yes 10MV, but no 100ft mast w/3ft globe, no ion-beam generator.) Also, Tesla cheated, by exciting the global "tank circuit" using vertical impulsive lightning bolts up to 150ft tall, from his 100Ft mast. A Real Man's Spark transmitter, naturally synchronized to the drifting mode frequencies.QuoteLook at the frequency. Is it in the required operating region, well below 20KHz? Is it driving an enormous cosine-shaped Schumann antinode, with vertical e-fields constant over tens of KM, and the first node out over the horizon? Is it even using a grounded antenna?Of course not. That paper is only demonstrating the removal of the last critical objection to Tesla's ideas, the one left over from 1936.Like so:Tesla's work is do-do! Radio travels instraight lines only!It can't curve around the Earth! (No, actually the physicists were wrong, and radio is entrained/reflected by conductive ionosphere. Marconi went ahead with it anyway, despite it being against physics. Look what happened!)Tesla is an idiot! There are no Earth Resonances! (Heh, the resonant modes were looked for and found, in the mid 1950s, after everyone in the controversy was dead. They named them after their discoverer. WO Schumann, of course.)Tesla doesn't understand simple physics! Radio spreads all the energy off into space! 1/r^2 law! (No, actually the physicists were wrong, it's a planar distribution, 1/r falloff, not 1/r^2. But even better, down below 20KHz the waves wrap around the Earth at least ten times before 34% decay, so it's cosine mode-patterns, standing-waves not 1/r.)Tesla isn't thinking straight! Even if it worked, there'd be huge node regions where no power was available! (Tesla already patented the work-around. The e-field nodes are also the high-b-field, high-current regions, where the receiver instead is two widely-separated ground-connections.)Tesla's stuff is crazy! You can't transmit megawatts VLF with such a tiny tower! (This is not a transmitter with an antenna; it's an electrically-short capacitive cavity-probe driving a resonant mode. Significant different physics, all explored empirically long before EM theory caught up.)Tesla's scheme won't work! It spreads any RF power in the entire Schumann duct, a 50KM-tall layer! (And scientists proved this in 1936!!!)See what's going on? Every one of the above "sane and rational" criticisms turned out to be wrong ...except the very last one. The 2014 Corum experiment was an empirical demonstration that the last objection was wrong too. Tesla's method, now called "Zenneck surface waves," weren't disproved in 1936 like everyone thought. The Bell 1936 experiment is shown to have been using the wrong antenna structure. They didn't use Tesla-style wave-launchers, so they detected none of the unusual long-range ground waves on which Tesla had based his system.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 11:41:08 am
content: Quote from: wbeaty on March 07, 2019, 09:40:03 amYes, please - where is microwatt-scale demonstration? If it spreads all over the earth - how it can compete with existing grid (~6% losses) if only one-eighth of Earth's surface is suitable for humans to live on? At the moment it seems like never ending preparation of Fyre Festival (tm) - kind of what Arca Space does, but they at least produce funny youtube videos

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 12:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: wbeaty on March 07, 2019, 08:26:16 am100% serious.For an idea to attract funding, it has to be commercially viable or break a boundary of knowledge. This clearly isn't. The best outcome is a novelty centralised power transmission method, something as a society we're desperately trying to get away from at the moment.And as you say "who would pay for such work?". No one unless the idea has a demonstrable commercial advantage. Which it doesn't even if the physics are correct.Quote from: wbeaty on March 07, 2019, 08:26:16 amThis is not bias. That's a junk straw man you threw together to discredit my idea.If you want intellectual or financial investment, you need collateral.An analogy. A man walks into my office and says I've made a horse that you feed hay and it pisses dollar coins. Am I going to invest? No I will do due diligence. I hire a horse expert who followed the same steps documented by the original claimant. My horse did not piss coins. Original man was actually running a mechanical turk to pull funding in. There's a LOT of that out there and this is in the same space as a lot of it.Reputation, trust, reproducibility, transparency and viability are next to ZERO here which is the problem.Quote from: wbeaty on March 07, 2019, 08:26:16 amErr you're missing the point by a mile. Centralisation, which this entirely relies on as the power source has to be concentrated on the transmitter logically, brings no benefit at all whatsoever. Look at where the rest of the market is going. It's entirely about moving away from centralised and grid models to fully distributed, high efficiency energy distribution and generation. Any centralisation is a risk.The rich dudes and the army engineers just build a road and cables to where they want to go or take generators with them. Multiple redundancy. A lot of military strategy is setting up supply chains. Now lets look at your case; if someone uses their hypersonic weapons to take out your two main Texzon towers, which are conveniently centralised and visible from bloody space, where are you then? Shit out of luck. Game over.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 04:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: zenneckwave on October 04, 2018, 06:01:58 pmTheranos got tons of investment to, for the same reasons.Quotewave goodbye to all underground animals.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 10:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on February 12, 2019, 11:35:22 pmLike you calling people narcissistic and a "pissed off teenager" for simply asking for links and evidence?, that level of decorum?

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 06:30:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 07, 2019, 10:41:01 pmI was being reasonable for fairly long enough. When, he called me a bullshit artist and got personal, I responded. I had indeed posted here some reasonable theory, but party under question didnt bother to read it and started attacking me in the name of skepticism. You cant be a skeptic without knowing the fundamental physics behind the said thing.I am still waiting for my peer review to be complete. I have shared the preprint with bd139, lets see what he has to say.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 07:56:31 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on March 08, 2019, 06:30:43 amThere was nothing of the sort in the quoted thread.I strongly suggest that you don't respond in that way (or at all) to such things.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 08:19:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 08, 2019, 07:56:31 amRight. First came teenager, only then artist:Quote from: ogden on February 13, 2019, 01:02:47 am

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 04:15:48 pm
content: This just sounds exactly like people trying to reinvent Wardenclyfe and are gonna end up the same way. Wasting money. Just because Tesla didn't know about "zennek waves" doesn't mean it's not exactly the same crap, trying to "resonate Earth" to broadcast power. Even if it works, the effeciency will be shit. You'll have a machine constantly pissing away tons of energy waiting for someone to use it instead of wires that direct the exact amount of power to exactly where it needs to go. Also, you'll need local recievers and regulators/coverters everywhere so how would you get it into people's houses, one on every house, on every machine (making them big)?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 04:26:28 pm
content: @Dave, ogden, SaiSharma:Please, guys -- I thought we were beyond that quarreling in this thread.Dave, I'm afraid you did this thread a disservice with your post. If you read through the later posts in the thread, you will find that things had settled down between ogden and SaiSharma, and we were back to "Let's discuss the facts once SaiSharma's paper is ready for publication."Can we please all turn back our clocks and restart at that point? Thanks!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 08:29:02 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on March 08, 2019, 08:24:15 pmI'm just annoyed. I staid subscribed to this thread since I am actually interested what level of experimental evidence will eventually emerge. But I don't want to be bothered reading more of this mudslinging.Dave (and anybody else) is obviously free to post here s they see fit. But it is bad style to just skim the posts, stop midway at something that catches your attention, and immediately fire off a reply without mustering the patience to read the follow-up posts.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 09:37:31 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 08, 2019, 08:29:02 pmThe post was reported. I don't normally read this thread.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 10:52:07 pm
content: Looks like it's running at 1710KHz.https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2%B009'24.0%22N+96%C2%B056'22.0%22W/@32.1527028,-96.9413238,1530m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d32.1566667!4d-96.9394444

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 06:23:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 08, 2019, 09:37:31 pmFirst of all, you started this thread, so please read all my earlier posts, where I did post some links and No one bothered to follow them up except for two folks who contacted me on researchgate redirected from this forum.Now, coming to my reaction to Ogden, that comes as a response to his aggressive antics in the form of posts by him as response to my answers.I need not be reminded about how to respond, when you simply allow this kind of unscientific way of questioning on this forum.You may ban me from this forum, I could give a donkey's hoot.Finally, one can not be a skeptic without knowing the basics of the said concept of physics. Something odgen has been trying very hard to be and has ended up exactly like an unruly teenager.Also, you have been blinded by your bias against the said Physical phenomena.@ebastler and @bd139, you both have received the links to the preprint article.You can always contact me through that. Nothing more on this forum, its a closure.SincerelySai

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 08:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on March 15, 2019, 06:23:23 amWhich of your posts contained links? Meaning URL to readable information in form of HTML or pdf document?Quote"Unscientific way" of asking for information (paper) does not justify insults and name calling. Scientific way of questioning would be just take your words for granted?QuoteHere we go again. You better send me your paper (in PM), not insults.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:43:52 am
content: The patent applicant seems to be "CPG Technologies, LLC". Probably the business of the CTO or founders.Patent application search time...http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=CPG+Technologies&FIELD1=AANM&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PG01115 applications, most in the last year or so. Legitimate or not (sounds up there with anti-gravity gyroscopes, hyperloop, self filling water bottles, to me but I don't really know) - they sure do crank out patent applications!

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 01:34:41 am
content: Quote from: ogden on March 15, 2019, 08:50:39 pmAlright. Sorry for being a bit triggered. However, your stance came across very aggressive. Hence, I wont be backing down on whatever I said.As far as links are concerned, I deleted the post, after I found no one bothered to look up.Ask me politely, I shall answer your questions to the best of my understanding.Sent you the preprint link via PM and email ID too.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:55:11 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on March 16, 2019, 01:34:41 amIt tells a lot, especially knowing that it was you who started profanity and insults. Whatever. Please keep further communication professional no matter how aggravating are questions, assertions or conclusions. If someone do not believe in what you say - better provide additional information to convince nonbelievers rather than just become triggered teenage keyboard warrior yourself.Thank you, I received PM. Will check your paper. Why don't you share it with everyone here - after all it is public and there's nothing that would fall into nondisclosure category.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:14:47 am
content: Quote from: ogden on March 16, 2019, 10:55:11 amI had been wondering the same thing -- but I can see that Saisharma might not want his forum name linked to his real name in a permanent, public post.Quote from: ogden on March 16, 2019, 10:55:11 amPlease keep your questioning professoinal too. No need for "Spanish inquisition" style interrogations.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 03:01:38 am
content: Sent email to your queries.Thanks.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 03:05:57 am
content: QuoteWell, its a 4-5 years of work in progress. Over the years some reviewers and folks at conference in the past called me names. Downright rude and down right unprofessionale.g.1. Crack,2. Tesla-cult in the academia,3. capacitive power transfer being packaged as guided mode power etc.4. Are you trying to disprove a 2 century old Faraday shielding? I am surprised you have a college education at your disposal.and on and on.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 09:18:15 pm
content: HMM...I WONDER WHY...I wonder if it's because you have yet to produce real concrete data that shows it's not only functional but...wait for it...PRACTICAL.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 10:49:48 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 17, 2019, 09:18:15 pmMany who follow this thread perhaps remember that I insistently asked for real experiment info/data that would confirm efficiency figure stated by SaiSharma. Claim was that everything is in the paper which can be obtained (only) on request. I got The Paper. Guess what - did I see scientifically sound proof of SaiSharma's claims? Obviously I can't tell unless paper is made public at least for readers of this thread.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 11:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on March 17, 2019, 03:05:57 amEngineers are incredibly easy to shut up, they deal in facts, just show them concrete data and it's done.If you don't have concrete data to show your device works and/or is practical, then it's not unexpected for people to call you things when you work in this sort of field. Because therearecountless crackpots and tesla-nuts out there, the internet is filled with them, and many startup companies have stolen a lot of peoples money. People have good reasons to be very skeptical.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:06:25 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 17, 2019, 09:18:15 pmI admit, back then I didnt have a concrete theory and simulation model to rely upon.Please check ur PM.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:08:05 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 17, 2019, 11:22:13 pmThat was years ago, when I was what you call a N00B.In certain ways am still learning. Thats what researchers are supposed to do, i.e. Keep learning.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:09:20 am
content: Quote from: ogden on March 17, 2019, 10:49:48 pmLets do one thing, next time you have a business trip to Korea. Let me know, I will take you to my facility, and we can do all the testing as per your standards?Hope that would work for you.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:18:03 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on March 18, 2019, 12:09:20 amThat's whatallthe people working on this sort of stuff say. I got offered US$20k and a trip to Canada to "verify" some crackpots invention.Bottom line is, if you are inviting people to do the testing and verification for you then you are doing it wrong. You make the claims, you get to prove it. No one is going to waste their time doing any verification for you.It's pretty trivial these days to make Youtube videos demonstrating your claims. If you have a prototype that demonstrates your claims, show it working.NOTE: I have not been following this thread, so I don't know what's been presented so far, but it sounds like no one here is convinced so far.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:23:26 am
content: Question:QuoteThat's hundreds of thousands of dollars minimum in patent drafting costs alone, millions of dollars if done by a proper patent attorney. So where is your funding coming from?And it's strange that with 65 US patents granted I can't find a single one under Viziv Technologies

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:24:16 am
content: Quote from: SaiSharma on March 18, 2019, 12:09:20 amIf my presence in your facility is only way for you to do proper measurements, then you are out of luck. Are you going to show your paper to others or not? At least pictures of setup or some demo video?Quote from: EEVblog on March 18, 2019, 12:18:03 amThere are some Youtube videos BTW. Only tiny detail - author shall "release" them in public.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:55:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 18, 2019, 12:23:26 amSmart move actually. Patents will not be auctioned when project fails.Look what happened to Ring Power Multiplier by Texzon and project web pagehttp://www.powermultiplier.com/When money income of Viziv Technologies will dry out, most likely same scientists will start next energy-related venture investment project.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 01:32:25 am
content: He showed me a paper demonstrating wave power overMETAL SURFACES. Not "OMG it will circle the earth!" power.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 01:49:38 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 18, 2019, 01:32:25 amI never claimed earth! Its not possible, E-field modes would simply sink into earth because of Lossy nature!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 09:42:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 18, 2019, 12:23:26 amBack in the late 00's I worked for a hooky as hell tech startup. Someone just turned up with a suitcase of £50 notes one day and said "here you go". Lots of people will just throw money at ideas and eventually one of them will stick and make them a return. We didn't even pitch to this guy. We bought some MacBooks, nice Aeron chairs and ate at Moro three days a week at lunch times. Good times. We were comfortable and ate like kings.At least they spent it on patents

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 02:08:03 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on March 18, 2019, 12:24:16 amUpdate: I did not get proof of power efficiency in private email conversation. Still nonbeliever. When seeing scope screen I pointed out that SaiSharma does not measure AC RMS voltage and current properly guess what happened?

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 05:28:40 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on March 07, 2019, 12:51:36 pmSo, you can read my mind and tell me what I think? But your telepathy powers didn't work this time. I actually was just honestly describing the decades-old history of that quote, as I remember it. (If you're not personally familiar with such history, therefore I have to be lying? Making s**t up? Sheesh!)For years the 'Extraordinary Evidence' quote was widely attributed to Carl Sagan. But back in early internet days, folks on the Skeptic groups tracked down a much earlier instance coming from the late Marcello Truzzi (discussed online in late 1990s. IIRC might have happened on sci.skeptic usenet, or on JREF skeptic forum.) There was also some material directly from Truzzi himself, him specifically bemoaning the word "extraordinary." I haven't found his original article unfortunately. Truzzi expressed regrets in creating the quote, and thus introducing unscientific material into basic reasoning. (He seems to assume that, if he hadn't coined the phrase, Sagan wouldn't have spread it all over, and today it wouldn't be a Skeptic Trope. So Truzzi took the blame.)Again: our judgement of a claim's "extraordinary-ness" is necessarily subjective. The bias needn't be automatic, if the term "extraordinary" is taken to mean "good solid evidence" rather than some sort of "special" evidence. Yet the situation too easily becomes"I hate this weird idea/claim/etc., and I can easily make it look bad, by labeling it as being 'extraordinary,' which in addition, magically makes it immune to normal evidencial requirements."The phrase"we needgood solidevidence, not 'extraordinary' evidence"was not my own, although I've been trying to spread it online over the last decades. It was coined because demanding proof is wrong. "Proof" doesn't apply to science, only Falsification/disproof. And of course "extraordinary" needs to be stricken entirely, and replaced with something far less subjective. The 'solid' evidence phrase may have originated in one of the old articles by Truzzi, or more likely came from the online skeptics/believers groups arguing about the flaw built into the Extraordinary Evidence quote.Either way, when I see someone try to use Truzzi's misguided quote, I pounce on that s**t.Again: the concept "extraordinary" is an embarrassment, and has no place in tightly reasoned argument. We need good solid evidence for everything in science, includingboththe obvious scammers with the magical horse pooping out the dollar coins, and also the unquestioned (but occasionally erroneous) material appearing in every reputable technical text.It's a very RP Feynman philosophy:question everything,never entirely trust textbooks or the pronouncements of experts; instead track down solid evidence behind them. Attack your own position! Don't limit your critical attitude to enemies' assertions, or to the weird stuff alone.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 05:45:56 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on March 07, 2019, 12:51:36 pmWHAAAT? What centralization? Criticizing a system you haven't researched? Tesla's 1890s plan (and Viziv's apparent continuation) involves a vast array of multiple transmitters covering the planet, each using cavity-resonance to violate inverse-square falloff. Tesla's original proposal was to have hundreds (perhaps even tens of thousands) of transmitters, little remote dynamos run by hydro systems unreachable by power lines. Each transmitter blankets the planet with standing waves, employing the physics of driven-cavities, and so reception is roughly independent of distance. Together they lock to each other, to excite a single standing wave "wireless grid." But to get past the barrier of human nature, that same old irrational disbelief, instead Tesla built one giant prototype tower. (That, as well needing to demonstrate worldwide comms and driving headphones worldwide, before amplifiers existed. And also to broadcast significant power to Paris, for an upcoming worlds fair demonstration.)In other words, Tesla's (and Viziv's) systemwon't work(and it perhaps becomes idiotic,) if:They're limited to using one/few transmittersInverse-square dominates, and each receiver must be within KMs of a transmitter.The whole point of this wireless power scheme was to tap nearly all significant energy sources worldwide, where each small transmitter independently blankets the entire planet (driving a cavity-mode: think microwave-oven chamber. Not an inverse-square falloff,) and also, having thousands if not tens of thousands of transmitters online. The global standing-wave becomes like a "water resevoir," an elevated pond, and would be filled using multiple small "water pumps." The 'giant towers' form of the device is not the intended system. Giant towers are either an initial prototype test- bed also including extreme high power, or they're a specifically impressive publicity-hype advertising system for producing easily-verified effects such as lighting tiny bulbs 1000KM distant, where any smaller transmitter would incapable, and where even fairly small numbers of KW towers would be far beyond their initial funding. In the end, there might be a giant tower at Hoover dam etc., but that contribution might be minimal compared to the immense number of smaller ones.Or put simply:what was Nikola Tesla's dream?What is Viziv actually pursuing? It was vehicles, flying and rolling and seagoing, all running without fuel tanks. Wireless electrical service both in cities and remote homes. Wireless navigation by standing-wave patterns. Hugo Gernsback's "togas, food-pills and personal helicopters," or at least giant flying machines with onboard tennis courts and swimming pools. All driven by one gigantic array of small transmitters running in phase-lock to a Schumann resonance line. Viziv is building the initial pieces. But for those who judge this "extraordinary" claim without bothering to first study its origins ...they'll only encounter Tesla's giant rotting tower torn down in Long Island, and Viziv's single huge experimental testbed device in Texas.The centralization demonstrated by these giant towers is not the goal.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 05:59:39 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 17, 2019, 11:22:13 pm...unless it involves teh Dodgy. Tesla stuff or similar. Or just a new breakthrough which demonstrates a major flaw in our previous understanding.Really, would you ever trust "concrete data" if it encourages magical speaker cables that only cost $200/foot? If it closely resembles a known scam, then we dare not trust any supporting data. If 3rd party's testingdidn'tfalsify the claim, then they're obviously promoters of that piece of probable woo. If they appear to be independent third-parties, well, maybe they're actually socks, and secretly part of a scam. If enough money was involved, then even people from known reputable test-labs aren't above corruption. See the problem?So instead, to make a good judgement, we have to produce the concrete data ourselves. Perform replications in our own garage. But what if our evidence supports the weird claim, then will anyone else ever take us seriously? From outside, it looks like we've inexplicably turned into Believers. We might be fooling ourselves, or just honestly mistaken. Or the least probable: the weird discovery turns out to be legit, and the entire community was wrong about it. Its promoters were right all along, those $200/ft speaker cables are worth the price, and were never Dodgy to begin with. Heh.The solution from science: wide replication, taking place over time (sometimes up to a couple of decades!) For really major breakthroughs, a single paper usually won't convince the community. If the breakthrough exposes a long-running community-wide error, then even a fair number of replications won't change opinions. (Examples: quasicrystals, jumping genes, ulcer bacteria.) In that case "Planck's Other Law" has to kick in: some scientists never accept a really new idea, but rather die of old age, and are replaced by their students who grew up already familiar with it. Planck shortened this to: science only progresses funeral by funeral.Liquid-fueled rockets were once regarded as revolting Flash-Gordon crap, and nobody could get funding for research (unless like Caltech they quietly pretented they were "jets.") I'm convinced that all the apparent Tesla-garbage is in much the same situation as those scientifically disgusting 1920s spaceships from the afternoon-movie serials, a bunch of ignorant Buck-rodger fantasy, so stupid thinking they can "fly to outer space" with rocket-tubes shooting fire out the back!!! But then I'm extremely biased, having built a flyback Tesla Coil as a kid in 1973, burning tiny holes in fingertips, and over time became only more corrupted!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 06:01:44 am
content: Quote from: wbeaty on March 23, 2019, 05:45:56 amWhat is the cavity standing wave dielectric loss of the earth?

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 07:17:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 23, 2019, 06:01:44 amDown below 20KHz? Rule of thumb: the system-Q for the Earth's lowest resonance is commonly quoted as 8-10. So, any ~11Hz pulse will pass around the Earth over 8 times times before decreasing to 66%. (Imagine passing an AC pulse ten times across an entire a continent-wide power grid, with losses only 33%.)The Corums (the Tesla-phile engineers behind the Viziv tower) published an engineering analysis in the early 1990s that showed that Tesla's system would still work, even with a Q that low. Their main point: when the system is in operation, the Earth's losses, (the low Q,) represents a constant loss independent of throughput, basically a resistor parallel to the power supply. For a large system, the loss would be ?tens? of megawatts. But if we keep the operating voltage always the same, then these Earth-losses remain constant, no matter how much wattage is being drawn by the distant receivers. Just make sure to sell gigawatt-rates of energy to customers, if your grid losses are constant megawatts.The losses are analogous to corona-leakage from a power grid the size of a continent. Even with the conventional 60Hz power grid, if nearly everyone stopped using it, the efficiency would plummet to near zero, with megawatts of net corona-loss relative to such reduced throughput wattage. (Also remember, the Tesla system isn't made of thin wires. It's planes. The analog to "cable resistance" apparently is insignificant, when compared to that parallel leakage in the air between the high voltage and ground. But I think this fact is taken from theory only, and has never been verified empirically. Better make sure your receiver acts like a lossless sky-coupling capacitor, not like a giant neon lamp!)But in the mean time, there was a 1990s Sutton/Spaniol paper from NASA where they built an unusual exotic antenna, and measured Q-values in Shumann-lines with values of many hundreds. Not ten! The greater VLF research community has never accepted this. These results are still maverick/fringe, and like the Corum papers, banished to Tesla conference publications.Sutton/Spaniol explained the problem: conventional Schumann resonance Q-measurements require long integration times, and unexpectedly, the Earth's sharp resonant lines are not stable in frequency, but wander around over a scale of many seconds. If your measurement-window is on a scale of minutes (in order to pull the natural signal out of the extreme thunderstorm VLF static,) then a wandering-yet-high-Q resonance will be measured as an artifact: a broader low-Q resonance. And also, with minutes of integration time it becomes impossible to even detect such wandering behavior. Sutton/Spaniol's weird neg-resistance neg-inductor antenna-driver was actively altering the space impedance, essentially amplifying the signal as fields, just outside the antenna-coil. An artificial superconductor loop. They obtained relatively huge signals, performed FFT on them, and saw extremely narrow Shumann spikes going way up into the KHz. But it was just two NASA guys with weird results, versus an entire radio-research community, where the two guys say it's been done wrong for decades. I bet their paper is PDF somewhere, with their graphs of VLF spectra above 100Hz, so-called "Black Hole Antenna." (Ripe for hobbyist replications! But probably not if you live in normal em-noisy neighborhoods.)Note that if Earth's system-Q really was more like 800 rather than 8, then any VLF pulse actually passes around the planet many hundreds of times before significant attenuation. (If Sutton/Spaniol aren't fools, then that would mean that Tesla's claim of insignificant losses might have been genuine after all. Yet that part wasn't even necessary to his success.)FYI, the Q of a microwave oven chamber is more like 10,000 - 50,000. If the box was made of parallel front-surf mirrors w/99.99% reflection, you could see way deep into the "infinite tunnel," tens of thousands of distant copies before the "tunnel" looked too dark. In a box, you'd see miles of 3D space, with a billion copies of any emitter, all shining upon you. So, a Tesla-style worldwide power-broadcast system may rival the efficiency of a wired grid thousands of miles wide, but its no match for the incredible efficiency of your kitchen's nook-ular dinner-cooker box! Now we just gotta get rid of that hot magnetron. Replace it with nice cold mosfet blocks. (We had one of those in our lab last year: a 300watt plasma lamp, with a pair of 2.5GHz, 150watt "microwave oven" mosfet drivers.)

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 07:50:08 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2019, 10:52:07 pmThis was passed along:The FCC application, searchhttps://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/GenericSearch.cfmtry entering"viziv." Transmitter callsign WN9XDJ 1.4KW18 kHz Expires April 2019"Purpose Of Operation:"The purpose of the test will be to confirm effective launching of a Zenneck surface wave and to"measure its propagation and attenuation characteristics on a global scale.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2019, 02:47:16 pm
content: How well did the testing go.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2019, 02:54:13 pm
content: They're busy starting a new company and redoing the branding probably for the next round of funding

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2019, 08:03:24 pm
content: Think they’re definitely dead.Actually did some reading and they partnered with Baylor university. World renown for absolutely not being heard of that one. Oh right it’s a Christian university with such alumni as Satan’s (Larry Ellison) right hand man Mark Hurd ironically. Even though they’re relatively unknown they now have the equivalent of a vegan vampire tapping their funding cabbage.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2020, 10:34:45 pm
content: Not dead apparently, rebranded as Vizivhttps://vizivtechnologies.com/and have a new tower. As featured in Hackadayhttps://hackaday.com/2019/11/20/texas-tesla-tower-titillates/Their "not an antenna" transmission tower bears more than a passing resemblance to Tesla's. Apparently James L Corum PhD is a fan of Tesla.It sounded like bullshit, a little digging and I end up on this thread... still impossible to find any convincing theory as to how it works. Tesla really seems to attract a lot of nutcases.

author: chickadee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2020, 11:24:20 pm
content: So, just an observation, nearly every person involved in company management either comes from a law background or worked with lots of patents.This "director of engineering" guy lilley even has this positive spin on his profile: "and completed course work toward his PhD"... What this is really saying is that he dropped out of a PhD program, but with an attempted positive spin on this negative statement I can't help but think that there is even more to this story...I think there are even MORE patents coming out of this! Followed by an "well oops sorry investors, we can't make any money right now, but here are some sweet patents we promise will make all the money some day!"It seems that this could be considered some kind of robbery, but if that were true then half of the SF bay area would be in jail

author: EEEnthusiast
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2020, 12:06:44 am
content: At that power levels, it would jam every thing operating in nearby bands as well. There is an out of band P1dB spec for almost every LNA in the world and I'm sure most of them would get fried with this power, forget degradation.Will someone in the FCC even approve this?

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2020, 06:08:42 am
content: Quote from: EEEnthusiast on March 04, 2020, 12:06:44 amTesla's original Colorado Springs experiments put out so much EMI that they would energize metal objects in the nearby town. Horses would get shocked by their shoes, normal barbed wire fences would become mildly electrified, tools would spark, exc. If he had gotten Wardenclyff to full power, it would have probably been much worse (possibly blowing nearby wiring and whatnot). So yeah, large low frequency transmitters are nasty and would definitely fry stuff.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2020, 10:53:25 am
content: Viziv seem to hedge their bets by saying it could be used for comms and navigation as well - so even if power delivery doesn't pan out they still have something. It doesn't seem like a good comms system, but the military tend to be people who pay over the odds for unique capabilities.Tesla fans like to paint the story that rich investors pulled out because they wanted to "kill" the technology, but gloss over evidence that the system was technically not viable. Unfortunately it won't help to confirm or deny that, if Viziv fails no doubt it will be put down to some conspiracy theory about dark forces.

author: EEEnthusiast
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2020, 02:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 04, 2020, 06:08:42 amNext time someone launches a new technology, it should be made mandatory to pass an EEVBlog scrutiny..

author: George_QRO
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 08:22:59 pm
content: While living in LA I worked for a company that invested in this and I had the opportunity to visit the Texas site. I got to see first hand over 1KW(a one HP motor was operating with no interconnecting wires) received at over 1km. This was using one of the smaller devices,not the big tower. The big tower was under construction and was testing using just a few watts. The small tower/device wasrunning about 5KW from a AM broadcast transmitter. This project is REAL and there is no magic behind the curtain. The Corum’sare first rate scientists and have been identified by the US government as a national resource with their work at AirforceCambridge. I had the chance to talk with them at the Viziv/Texzon facility. They are considered THE authority on Tesla’s RFwork and Ball Lightning by the Russians and Americans both. They indicated that they had full access to all the Tesla documentsin Belgrade while working with the 1st and 2nd directors and hinted there is nothing left with the FBI or Wright Pat. It was obvious theViziv/Texon managers of the company were in strong control of the Corum's and their work.They made it clear the work in Milford is to basically make an “extension cord” for power, and global communications with verylow power, and phased arrays for geo-location, and a dozen other RF application. There is no free energy nonsense. Their claimis that they discovered how to produce a Zenneck Surface wave (proposed by two german scientists, Jonathan Zenneck andArnold Sommerfield) by supplying the ground with RF fields at the Brewster angle. A Zenneck wave drops off as one over thesquare root of the distance. However when a load is connected to earth all the power went to the load with minor losses. Thelosses are usually associated with the higher frequencies. During the presentation they indicated it was much the same as usingteledeltos paper. The energy is in the traveling wave fields not in radiation or conduction through the earth. The goal of the bigtower was to produce a Zenneck Surface wave that will reach around the globe. Something in the neighborhood of 100 Hertz.For Tesla the world frequency was 11 Hertz (which is a surface wave resonance) not 7.8 Hertz (which is Schumann resonance).They showed us a laser (light is EM wave the same as radio frequencies) pointer reflectedoff the conference room table, at the Brewster angle there was no reflection. But, if you looked along the edge of the tablethe light was very bright. They explained the light energy was trapped along the surface of the table. The Corum's spent 40 yearstrying to figure out how to do the same thing with RF. They indicated the obstacle was the earth around the tower.Apparently the dirt's RF properties are frequency sensitive and it made the Brewster angle non-real (with light the angle is real),or complex (like R+jX).Some how they made a complex Brewster angle by playing with the phase and voltage of the local RF fields. This created aninfinite plane as required to launch a Zenneck Surface wave. I hope some day they publish what is behind all the patents.They did not mention anything about Schumann resonance or the ionosphere. They claimed they created a one sided wave guidemuch like plasmons use at light frequencies. The Corum's have certainly unlocked fertile ground for engineers to plow for manyyears to come.Their real joy was the the replication of an experiment done by Bell Labs in the mid 1930s. They actually redid the experimentat the same location as in the 1930s, at Seneca Lake in New York. The Corum’s were able to demonstratethat the 1930s experiment was incomplete. They replicated what Bell Labs did and then demonstrated that if the radiation wasremoved by making the structure very small and the RF fields were just so for the lake water, a Zenneck Surface wave could beproduced just as Zenneck predicted. That proved that Zenneck and Sommerfield were correct back around 1910 and the work ofKenneth Norton in the 1930's at the FCC was not quite correct. Zenneck waves do not have near and far fields, just a travelingwave with very very low loss. If you make the frequency very low <1kHz, then the wave attenuation is less than 0.25 db to theantipode and back.From what I was able to get out of the presentation regarding Tesla was that they had reproduced Tesla’s Colorado Springsexperiment and sent power 25 miles. Tesla's work laid the foundation but the Viziv/Texzon tower greatly expands on Tesla's work.Their work is not to make big sparks, but very special EM fields with the smallest amount of power possible.They were quite adamant that there are no Tesla secrets and no cover ups. Everything you need is in the existing Tesla literature.What is not in the literature is the “how does it work”. That is in their patents and 40 years of hard labor. One of the Corum’shad a big sign in his office, Do what Tesla tells you to do and you get the same results. Don’t try to do what you think Tesladid (something like that). There was also a working replica of one of Tesla receivers in his office. It was the same one Corumused to listen to the Jovian decametric signals and hear one, two, three.Here is a website that trys to keep up with the Corum public publications. Who knows what else they are working on…teslasociety.com/pdf/who_was_the_real_dr_nikola_tesla.pdfteslasociety.com/mars.htmlnedyn.comFor Russian speaking,teslasociety.com/russiantesla.pdfIt was a fascinating day spent at Milford, TX.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 03:40:59 pm
content: We have a live bullshit shill here!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 04:49:59 pm
content: It’s a shitty cut and paste shill as well. I bet if you google it you’ll find the same text somewhere else.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 09:33:32 pm
content: He's banned but I leave the text for humorous posterity.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 03:09:47 am
content: Shill of the day award winner!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 04:40:05 am
content: Quote from: Simon on April 10, 2020, 09:33:32 pmHe's been expelled from EEVBlog University for plaigerising his shill. His "work" will now be displayed to his fellow scammer classmates as a bad example.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 06:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 10, 2020, 04:49:59 pmYes, right here on Hackaday. It's in the comments, also posted by "George" a week earlier:https://hackaday.com/2019/11/20/texas-tesla-tower-titillates/

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 07:36:33 pm
content: Should read Tesla Tower Tells Trivial Twonks To Transfer To Texzon Tonnes of Tens

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 08:15:26 pm
content: http://rexresearch.com/corumzenneck/texzon.pdfEither there is a language barrier, I am too tired, or this is just nonsensical technobabble, but I can not parse a single paragraph of this.Anyone up for a read?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 08:24:11 pm
content: If it's like the last one I read, it's probably a straw man, backed with a fuck load of vector calculus derived from Maxwell's Equations, some trite representation of propagation from the anal sphincter of a spherical cow in a vacuum but plonked on top of a stick near the ground, a miraculous jump to a conclusion, a bunch of loose references and written by someone with plausible experience with lots of letters after their name and alzheimer's...

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 03:02:20 am
content: It's well known that spherical cows deliver a more uniform frequency of manure.I'm shocked that you weren't aware of this

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 06:14:10 pm
content: So if they are doing what Tesla tells them to do, then they will fail the same way, did I get that right?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 06:16:58 pm
content: Correct. The failure being it a load of bullshit

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 03:21:24 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on April 18, 2020, 06:14:10 pmYep, except in this age if they blow up a substation or cause massive EMF fields they are in a much bigger heap of trouble.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:49:24 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on April 19, 2020, 03:21:24 pmNah. No need to even try to demonstrate anything. They can continute to defraud investors with just promises. They do not even hide that tech is not feasible. If fools reading "A Zenneck wave drops off as one over the square root of the distance", still give away their money for that - why do you even care?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 06:33:08 am
content: Quote from: ogden on April 19, 2020, 07:49:24 pmAnyone know through what means they are getting funding?

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 07:00:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 23, 2020, 06:33:08 amAs usual. Company issue shares and investors buy them.https://www.whoisraisingmoney.com/texzon-technologies-llc. Relatively small number of investors tells that they are aiming at venture capitalists and angel investors, most likely contacted through trade fairs and private meetings. For example in 2019-01-02 they offfered 5mil$ worth of of shares, but got just one investor with $837000 to invest.

author: MRMILSTAR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2020, 04:31:54 am
content: This thread has been going on for 2.5 years now and still nothing from Viziv except promises and a slick web site. People have been trying to do this for 120 years and failed because the physics doesn't work. It would be so easy to silence us skeptical engineers. Just build a prototype working long range wide area wireless power distribution system on any scale that is efficient! Show us something tangible that demonstrates this. No one ever has. All we get is talk and promises.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2020, 05:35:06 am
content: Quote from: ogden on April 25, 2020, 07:00:24 pmThat'll keep them going for another few years at least!

author: MRMILSTAR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2020, 02:40:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 03, 2020, 05:35:06 amAnother few years of entertainment!

author: MRMILSTAR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 03:54:47 pm
content: Whatever happened to that "zenneckwave" user that told us 2 years ago, after an endless stream of rationalization, that he would be back in a a few weeks gloating about our skepticism after the successful demonstration of Viziv technology? He seems to have gone silent.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 04:01:03 pm
content: I suspect the crystal meth lab he was also working on blew up

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 03:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: MRMILSTAR on August 04, 2020, 03:54:47 pmThe interdimensional aliens got him for using way too much Z-rays.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 05:16:31 pm
content: Pfft, they've obviously been silenced/sabotaged by the oil industry MIBs.You know the ones, those lizard people.

author: NROC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 am
content: Whilst I don't want to immediately call this stuff bullsh** there is a lot of decent information out there about zenneck waves nowadays which can help to figure out if it's complete sh** or not.The zenneck wave itself is kind of a surface wave but its actually not lol, its a surface current wave, that's why in a lot of research articles its called a quasi-surface wave. The transmitter is basically responsible for converting the RF input to a TM (transverse magnetic) mode propagating which is the situation you get whenever you have a conductor embedded in a dielectric such as a waveguide or something like that. The electric field propagates and is almost parallel to the surface so you can consider it as propagating longitudinally whilst the magnetic field propagates transverse to the direction of propagation. The first problem with the system is that in every research article I've seen, the loss from the transmitter into the waveguide or metal surface makes up about 90% of the loss due to radiation which means its unlikely to comply with FCC standards. The other problem is that zenneck waves typically require a conductor to allow the displacement current to move through the structure and guide the wave. The electric field strength of the wave dissipates as 1/r on a conductor which does initially make it better than free space propagation but here's an open access nature paper on zenneck wave transmissionhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57554-1. If you look at Fig 4 (below), you can see how badly the zenneck wave does when it comes into contact with a lossy dielectric at 27MHz. The wave sinks into the dielectric.I think the system might make more sense if they tried to use a much lower frequency from say 10 to 50kHz or something but then the other problem is that as soon as you attach a receiver to the Earth it will change the impedance of the Earth circuit such that there will only be a few places on the Earth where you can draw power without messing up the resonance (i assume they're going for some kind of resonance or standing wave).Anyway I thought it would be worth explaining some of the technical stuff around it so that anyone who doesn't know this company are full of sh** can find some relevant information. My background is in physics and electrical engineering and my PhD was on surface waves for power transmission.A lot of information on zenneck waves etc you can only find if you search for 'single wire power transmission.' Gobau lines brings up some good stuff too. He uses a dielectric around the conductor to slow down the speed of the waves below the speed of light and confine the electric field to the conductor stopping radiation by evanescent waves.

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 08:46:40 am
content: Quote from: NROC on January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 amIt belongs to the category of interface waves, it has strong link with Surface plasmons(SP). The SP happens in GHz frequency, well explained in that article by me.Quote from: NROC on January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 amOH NO!!!! E-field is perpendicular or normal to the conductive surface (not parallel), this holds good for all kinds of interface waves- SP, SPP, Surface Wave, Zenneck, Goubau etc. The Magnetic field would be in loops parallel to the conductive surface.Quote from: NROC on January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 amI am afraid this is a highly inaccurate statement I am afraid. Please see the image below of a measurement I did on a 70 m long pipeline Shown in fig 12 of the IEEE journal article herehttps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=9222125The screenshot image you used from the Scientific Reports articlehttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57554-1clearly shows measurements and State of the art Narda Field analyzer results (supplementary information), which clearly show that 90% power is not lost in the radiation losses.Also if it works through a partial metal shield then clearly the power is not being lost as radiation. Please see the demo video herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-_HAqxcnkI&feature=youtu.beTo confirm that there is actually a high power coming in, I used a Halogen instead of LED here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDRHGAf5b7Y&feature=youtu.beLED's can work on low currents, but 20-40 Watts Halogens need atleast 700mA and above.In the articleshttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57554-1https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=9222125the measurement screens shots are shown for keeping elements of doubt away.Quote from: NROC on January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 amZenneck modes are generated when localized charge oscillation takes place. This is supported by Schelkunoff's integrals on images.About two years ago on this exact thread, I had repeatedly said that On earth zenneck is not practicable for power transfer. Even if you go into KHz where earth behaves like a conductor, the spread of energy would kill any hopes of receiving the power. However, some crazy guys on this forum tried to troll me by claiming that am supporting VIZIV and they also went to the extent to discredit my measurement results. So I played a game with that guy, I measured AC but kept the measurement settings of DC and sent it to him/her. The poor guy thought he got me, but little did he know that I reverse trolled him.Quote from: NROC on January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 amThere is no Standing wave in Zenneck wave!!!Quote from: NROC on January 10, 2021, 02:16:08 amGoubau system which has a standing wave property as per this article in IEEE by Vaugh et al.,https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8807104I simulated the field strength variation on HFSS here is a result of the Field strength in case of G-line WPT as claimed in the article I tried attaching it please see.Notice how field strength along the metal line changes with change in phase in case of the IEEE paper.I thought this thread had died off a natural death. But, someone from this forum with whom I have been in regular touch told me about this new post, so I came to see. I felt there were some corrections needed and hence added it.

author: wbeaty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2021, 06:51:14 am
content: Viziv Technologies filed for bankruptcy in Jan 2021Hey, think there'll be a sheriff sale? Megawatt xmission gear?Get your own 30-story Tesla Tower at prices to fit the alt-science hobbyist budget?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2021, 08:27:35 am
content: My only comment is “LOL”

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 08:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 25, 2021, 08:27:35 amI don't understand yourLOL- is it a joy of Dr. Corum presumable failure ?I'll be happy to see your responseLet me challenge your skepticism a littleChapter11 is the best way to sale business good.And it is not important if buyer pays for chance to use it or for chance to shut it up forever.It means business is protected and waits for the best deal. So bankruptcy is just an other step for technologyranging from military.. to internet, data, GPS without satellites , geolocation, boarder protection and energy transfer and plenty more.Board of directors of Viziv is made from retired US army Generals and some other powerful people .But they know about it not so much " I assume."There is Department of EnergyandThe U.S. Department of the Interiorprotects (America's natural resources)If the technology is good than there is a problem.. well big one.And the best way is if inventor " decides" to bankrupt the entitySome history:In 1933 Dr Borrow negated Dr Zenneck and Zenneck Wave calculation (based on - minus sign error.)For ~45years Zenneck wave was "not recognized" (hibernated) by science till US military decided to experiment with it.In 2013 Dr. James Corum repeated Seneca Lake experiment of Dr. Borrow from 1933 with the assistance of Scientists andinterested investors . ( Chevron was very much "curious") and that activated big money ..In 2017 Dr Corum was making patent applications ~ 1 per week.e.g patent as simple as paper clip is around 20k.200 of them may cost around $4M. ( excluding discount)Dr. J Corum and his brother Kenneth Corum didn't take one single penny from the companyand they knew what they were doingThe owner of Viziv is a "Holly Man" the priest and he didn't take one single penny from the company too -he also knew what he was doingPatents belongs to Viziv.The technology works 100%:That is why calling it with names is inappropriate.And hereI would like to pay my great respect to SaiSharma.Few words :SaiSharmaexperiments are based on the Dr. Zenneck 1907 study.The only difference with Sommerfeld(1902) - Goubau(1954) Linehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sommerfeld_effectwas that Goubau perfected first ever interface known to humanity named -linehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_lineThis interface was made with conductive medium- wire coated with dielectric.SaiSharmaused conductive medium foil and dielectric- air.Dr. Corum used Earth as partially conductive medium and dielectric- air .So all SaiSharma needs to do is to low his frequency from 225MHz to :1. to 52MHz( for Seneca Lake) ( also 1.8MHz)2. to 1.8MHz for earth/ air interface short range experiments.3. to 137kHz for Dr. Corum Expert-science /investor examination.4. to 18kHz for Very long range A to B energy transfer.and the golden words are.:to the frequency when the earth becomes "conductive"It is important to know that Zenneck wave works in any possible frequency but the name changes:Polariton , Surface Plasmon e.t.cThe only difference is that the interface requires different approach, but the mechanism is the same.There are some educational videos:

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 09:15:25 pm
content: @marek1 -- you took the time to register here as a new member, and to write a long post. Which begs the question: What is your relationship with Texzon/Viziv or the key players in this company? Do you have a vested interest of your own? WOuld you mind to let us know? Thanks.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 09:36:13 pm
content: No I don't have any interest nor I'm not in any way attached to that entityI'm in science of electromagnetic waves.I'm confused as to - is it wrong to write the long post?I would gladly appreciate your help with proper understanding what is that I should not do here.Thank you very much and my full respect to the members of this forum.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 02:31:42 am
content: I don't think there is anything inherently wrong to write a semi-long post as your first post. However, it does seem curious that one registers for a forum with the specific intent - or at least it appears that way - of rebutting criticism or what seems to be a rather vague, misunderstood and suspicious research.Much of the chiding remarks are because history is littered with scams and/or failed research areas, and at the start of research it can be difficult to distinguish between the two. Very intelligent people can easily be fooled, or actively decieve - just look at Theranos and to a lesser extent uBeam. Vast sums of money were poured into them, and in the former case there was intentional outright fraud. They had "some powerful people" on their boards, and they were either completely fooled, or guilty of deception.I agree it is easy to ciriticise and mock new ideas and technologies, but remember, there are far more failed technologies and scams than there are successes: we only seem to remember the scams that became famous because they suceeded in fooling many, not the countless start-ups that pop up, get funding, and fold over night. So it seems like these are rare, when in fact they are the majority. So without even looking or understanding a new technology, with the claims that have been made, and the fact we've heard it all before, its a faily safe bet to call bullshit.I'm sure I and others will eat our words if proven wrong, and thats all it takes really - proof. Small scale doesn't matter, providing it is well controlled, and overseen by a third party with no conflicts of interest. If the technology really did have "powerful people" on their board, then surely they could have done this as a proof of concept? Over the realtively short time I've been on the internet, I have seen many, many such scams and ideas, with people clinging onto their ideas almost like a religion. There is often great effort in trying to convince others about an idea or technology, but very little effort in developing it, which is ultimately the only way their ideas will be heard.Edit: typos.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 11:42:17 am
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on June 14, 2021, 02:31:42 amOur American diversity has historically proven British origin, and I'm surprised with your comment.Forum is for the purpose of sharing information and criticism is only side effect of difference of opinion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_(legal)That what is suspicious to you has full rights to be proven right or wrong.If you don't understand something in science of TEM area, just ask me a questions before making judgement as everyone deservesequal fair rights to his expression.Quote from: Buriedcode on June 14, 2021, 02:31:42 amPowerful people in that American business based on Rules made their decision - based on Chapter11 .My Dear friend logic is the tool of the mother of science philosophy and its first question is to establishreasoning.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoningThat is what helps to understand motion, in its philosophical form .By that rule first question should be: who are these people? but you making assumption and calling them with "names."And here you have few choices:1. google for 1 minute and find out.2 ask me and I will provide it for you.Quote from: Buriedcode on June 14, 2021, 02:31:42 amThere is nothing wrong with being wrong andI do thank you for your words.In science:-first is the unknown,-than "right" and "wrong" and-than there is birth of new model in physics that has a lot of "wrong" to be corrected.Quote from: Buriedcode on June 14, 2021, 02:31:42 amDear friend: I assume you meant "it is for youfairlysafe" to call someone or something with names - not beingeducated in that particular science or you are?Question is :1 do you want to be challenged by me ?2 or you want to challenge me in that particular science?Quote from: Buriedcode on June 14, 2021, 02:31:42 amWe in USA respect everyone rights to waste his money or make money .Dr, Corum and his brother including the owner of Viziv - the priest didn't get paid .They were not on payroll.By American Law they didn't benefit from Viziv.Dr James Corum is respected PhD with the long historyof working with our government ,military and space agencies.but how do you know that?The conclusion:You have question I have answer .If I don't know the answer it doesn't mean that I should be called names just because I didn't satisfy your curiosity .

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 12:00:12 pm
content: @marek1 -- I found Buriedcode's post very balanced and fair. He admits to the possibility of being wrong, but states his arguments for being very skeptical about Viziv and their technology.You, on the other hand, seem strangely argumentative and protective of Viziv. And you claim inside knowledge of the company, e.g. who got paid for what. Unless you give me some more background, I am inclined to assume that you arenotan impartial outside observer in this matter.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 01:34:19 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 14, 2021, 12:00:12 pmI got this information from another forum , but there was also link that I can't open nowhttps://vizivtechnologies.com/about/team/If you tell me that I 'm allowed to post links to another forum I will do so.However I saw this information by myself too. I'll try to find it in my search history.I'm pretty much convinced that I'll be able to do so.The point is: Till proven otherwise there is no reason to trash any information as not valid.I have never seen or know or had any interaction with anyone of the individuals related or directly attached to Viziv.I have never been to Milford Texas.Quote from: ebastler on June 14, 2021, 12:00:12 pmKnowledge is about education and personal experience in given science.I'm standing for the rights of you, and everyone else to your own pride, value, respect including Dr. Corum.I see ~10 different nations in one elevator everyday and everyone of them deserves - all listed above.Science doesn't recognize believes andassumptionsmade based on believes, and we are not here to believe in something, but to form our own base in that particular science.Listen to Dr Roy one more time if you will..https://youtu.be/l6uPHxQVEgQ?t=302With all due respect you didn't yet ask: even one single question or provided any credible disprove of Dr Corum scientific basis for Zenneck wave in the interface.I doubt that you can list types of interfaces and its characteristic properties.Correct me if I'm wrong please.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2021, 12:29:08 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 14, 2021, 12:00:12 pmHere is quote I promised you to find.QuoteThat stays about the owner and both Corum Brothers .I also saw similar and even more accurate information from different sources .But I promised you just one.here is a link to the article:https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/569076/is-vizivs-surface-wave-technology-plausibleplease also look at :Quote from: marek1 on June 14, 2021, 01:34:19 pmI do appreciate your kindness, while waiting for me to find requested information.

author: Tantratron
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 13, 2021, 08:52:52 pmHellomarek1,Well transmitting power through the complex earth layers wether surface or deep insidedoes work but its efficiency is very lowhence not practical from an economical view. On the side note, it could create ecological problems on the soil, plants and animals.I've been involved long ago with digital military electronic warfare for my country (France), RF mobile and satcom (very high frequency) as well as nuclear submarine VLF transmission.Military tech has been looking for decades on this surface wave or Zenneck waves, maybe it has been used but for sure on public domain, the goal of Viziv to distribute energy that way is non practical, non-efficient and could pose earth-living serious interference.Not sure why you decided to create a membership on this forum to only address this technology but I recommend you first read key posts of this very thread.Contrary to what you say about the excellent work ofDr Sai Kiran Oruganti, he did state the efficiency to not be good at Viziz low frequencies, for exemple check this posthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg3408464/#msg3408464You might check earlier post ofWilliam Beatystating the same conclusion, this one for examplehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg2290266/#msg2290266So in other words, unless Corum brothers did innovate and design an ultra compact ultra high Q resonator-coupler to work at such low frequencies, it cannot work as claimed which explains probably the bankrupt.For transmitting long distance via Earth layers a few digital data frames (i.e. military use), it does work but requires hell of electronics, antennas along with digital processing but for high power transmission as claimed by Corum's brothers or Nikola Tesla, forget it.Best regards,Dr Albert Roseiro (Ph.D. and MSc in Electrical Engineering)Founder and President of Tantratron SAShttp://www.tantratron.tk

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2021, 10:59:47 am
content: I do thank you very much Dr Albert Roseirofor your response.Quote from: Tantratron on June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 amAt first there isno such thing as:-"transmitting power through the complex earth layers"-or surface-or deep insidein Dr Corum experiments and/or applies to Zenneck Wave.Zenneck wave is a solution of Maxwell equation and must stay in brackets of its own properties.http://web.mit.edu/redingtn/www/netadv/zenneck.html#:~:text=This%20so%2Dcalled%20Zenneck%20wave,space%20with%20a%20finite%20conductivity.&text=Most%20of%20the%20energy%20of%20the%20wave%20is%20not%20near%20the%20surface.Quote from: Tantratron on June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 amWould you be kind enough to explain to me the mechanism of that negative impact and your projected extend of it?Quote from: Tantratron on June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 amQuestion:1. How do you know that it is not practical ( please provide me more than just your disbelieve)2. how do you know that nonradiative wave in Far Field is causing an interference and what is the mechanism of ithttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57554-1Quote from: Tantratron on June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 amAnswer:1. My dear Dr Albert Roseiro would you be so kind and just point at what I do wrong in this forum - it helps a lot.2. I'm American who respects every value recognized by science and diversity in social platform.Quote from: Tantratron on June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 amThere are two separate pieces of information.1. one is astatement:" Corum brothers did innovate and design an ultra compact ultra high Q resonator-coupler to work at such low frequenciesit cannot work as claimed"question:would you be so kind and:- provide me link to that particular Q resonator-coupler and explain or provide credible explanation why it doesn't work?2. another one is theconclusive assumption in area of logic-https://www.math.toronto.edu/preparing-for-calculus/3_logic/we_2_if_then.html-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic" it cannot work as claimed which explains probably the bankrupt.would you be so kind and provide a relation between yourconclusive assumptionand yourstatementbased on any evidence?Reasoning:In this forum I was requested by valuable seniors members to provide supporting evidence and/or links, and/or explanation for my statement andI provided answers to the best of my ability as to:- why calling with "names" other people without having basis for it is inappropriate.- why I say that Dr Corum his brother and the owner of Vziv were not benefiting and they never earned any money for their IP( intellectual property)With my all do respect Dr Albert Roseiro It is my pleasure talking to you .

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2021, 11:13:23 am
content: sorry I posted twice

author: SaiSharma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2021, 11:42:28 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 13, 2021, 08:52:52 pmDear Marek1Thank you for the kind words. However as exciting as the possibility of ZW's over earth sounds fascinating, it has massive pitfalls.Dr. Albert Roserio and I are in regular touch about this topic.Kindly allow me to clear some issues before we head on with the discussions. My article and work is related "only and only to Metal-Air interfaces". The same efficiency metrics may not be applicable to earth-air transfer. Frequency I used 27MHz & 36 MHz ( not 225MHz). I worked on this to provide a wireless solution to marine vessel industry as an alternative to repeaters for their in-vessel communications i.e. Engine room to Bow room (rotor shaft) on the LNG carrier ships of Samsung Heavy Industries, and Dolphin semi-sub oil rig (Ballast tanks to Rescue Helicopter deck). My only motto was to defeat partial but tight Faraday shields using an EM wave based option. It was a problem presented to me as a PhD student and my PhD thesis came with some tight restrictions. Easy way was use of ultrasonic transducers, but it wasnt allowed as per Hyundai project manager!Regarding the efficiency of ZW on "Earth":He (Albert) and I have come to the same conclusions, albeit independently. Back in 2018 itself I discovered with my experiments that the power density being an area dependent quantity would spread thin across the area of the metal sheet. In order to see "considerable", you would have to use a thin media with higher conductivity(than earth) to retain the power intensity of the waves. Which in other words is like an open ended waveguide.So if you use Sea water or earth for transmission, you would have to increase the number of receiving units to increase the one-to-many efficiency (I may be sounding positive about Earth transmission of VIZIV, but I am not!). This is an inherent issue with wave based transmission systems. You can follow this ITU report on the efficiencies of wave based transmission systems herehttps://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/opb/rep/R-REP-SM.2392-2016-PDF-E.pdf

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2021, 11:54:22 am
content: Thank you for your comment Dr SaiSharma.and I'm honored to have the opportunity to talk to you.I will address your comment later.I'm waiting for the response and answer to everyeach one of my questionsby Dr Albert Roseiro.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2021, 10:40:49 am
content: A.The intention :- of my post is absolutely friendly, peaceful and socially correct withno intention to attack anyoneor any value, despite of howstrong is the expression usedby me.Each one of the words/phrases important from historical perspective will be numbered:The number will point at the origin of that particular word or phrase.A1.Historically present descriptors are valid byrules of “grandfathering”Explanation:A grandfather clause is a provision that allows people or entities to follow old rules that once governed their activity instead of newly implemented ones, often for a limited time.In social platform it is:wording used in the past by members of this forum and/or other sourcestill that wording is not rejected /objected or revoked using logical explanation by the very author of that wording.However it may create precedence.Example:Quote from Wesley's stivep1 video:"-Why you ..? What makes you so special?"Origin:Please go to here:https://youtu.be/l6uPHxQVEgQ?t=184B.freedom of expressionbased on our constitution is about me using equalstrength of expression format used and tolerated by moderators of this forum prior to meentering to this forum - including their original wording ( Equal Rights)meaning of words in the context:(1)guns- brains; origin-https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/top+gun(2)shoemaker/s- top professionals but in just one particular field of expertise; origin: Wesley's video(3)Bullshit/ing Free Energy – origin Wesley's video documenting original phrase used by Admin of this forum.(4)Bullshit: Texzon Wireless Power - original name of this part of EEV blog forum(5)-"Why you ..? What makes you so special?" ; Origin: Quote from Wesley's stivep1 video(6)"surgeons" ,(Joke – humorous phrase)(7)"He is Out." - not willing to participate in constructive conversation and/or not able to formulateexpected response.Body of my comment:I have pleasure to be here in that group of likely all the best brains - the top guns(1) of the world inelectronics, electrical engineering and science.It was done by years of hard work and dedication of ADMIN of EEV BlogDavid L Jones.Thank you for that Dear David.I noticed increased attention of other social groups, blogs, forums, with the outcome of this conversation .____________________________________________________Summary of my interaction with members of this forum till today:-bd139 19051 comments, his only response was “LOL” He is Out.(7)-ebastler 3920 comments, I doubt that you can list types of interfacesand its characteristic properties. . He is Out.(7)-Buriedcode 1358 comments, great guy ."//I'm sure I and others will eat our words if proven wrong,//"My response:"There is nothing wrong with being wrongandI do thank you for your words."He is Out.(7)- Dr Albert Roseiro.He is Out.(7)Dear Dr Albert Roseiro. how disappointing, ?Such a pile of nonsense I didn't see from any one of my PhD friends or any students I was interacting with for the past 10 years. It is a shame isn't it?Feel free to challenge me by addressing the every single one of my questions you were asked to respond to.( please do not formulate any new questions prior to that)and by that prove me wrong if you can?And remember please:-there is nothing wrong with being wrong.. just admit that. Will you?Here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg3587891/#msg3587891-SaiShrama32 comments, This guy is good, really good.. compatible towbeaty.So who is wbeaty .. well I think he is capable of putting me into a the corner to cry like small child, if I go outside of my field of expertise, but I will not. He is Real brain real value.Questions:1.So do you have any more Phd's, surgeons(6) Free Energy Bullshiters, who are Bullshit/ing Free Energy (3) activists? or any other shoemakers (2)Please show me what makes you so special(5) ? In thisBullshit: Texzon wireless power place shiting at two retired American scientiststhe Corum Brothers for being generous and not making money on their IP?Is this what that entire activity of yours here is about?Please refer to the number attached to each word e.g ( 2 ) and check intended meaning of each one of the words, before you make your judgment !!!2.Knowing that George was thrown out from this forum after making just one comment.I'm asking for the second time as there was no response as of yet from moderators of this forum.- if I need to provide educational and/or requested/expected material in form of picture or articleor quote that is already published on another forum...will you dear well respected members and moderators allow me to use this material?Ending paragraph:In the world of logic when two opposing sides are confronted there is a chance that the audience will be benefiting from the level of that information exchange.I don't mind to be nailed to the wall, by some smart guys out there.Please be advised that there is a certain boundary in information exchange ruled by partners in research and that puts entire group of people into stop including me.So my freedom of information sharing, may be limited in area of intellectual property rights.So don't expect to have an answer to every question you have.Dear and well respected ADMINYou attacked Free energy community and in return you got negative attention from science community in USAYou attacked American Scientists.There is a big difference between expression of your opinion and shaming with no basis for it.Free Energy community is many times bigger than EEV and quite powerful - and is not important if they are educated or not- they have friends, family members, kids in universities,How much of a joy did you get from trashing them all?Was it worth to do it?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 16, 2021, 11:07:51 am
content: @marek1was there a point to your wall of text?

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2021, 11:27:03 am
content: I'm surprised you don't see it:the text has logical sections:-A.The intention :A1.the rules of “grandfathering”Explanation: attached to it.- the Example:-B.the basis of freedom of expressionmeaning of words in the context:-Body of my comment:- analysis of :Summary of my interaction with members of this forum till today:-Ending paragraph:And now I'm ready to respond to Dr. SaiSharma the brain here ...

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2021, 12:00:29 pm
content: @marek1: You are trying to set the rules of the discourse here, demanding (!) that specific forum members reply to every one of your questions, defining who is "in" and "out" (i.e. worthy of participating in the thread)... I'm afraid that is not how it works.Quote from: marek1 on June 16, 2021, 10:40:49 amOh, and you are a believer in "free energy" too? And threatening the admins with the huge power of the "free energy community"? I am sure that will help your standing in this forum...From the content as well as the style of your writing, I reckon that you have spent too much time in some strange bubble, becoming obsessed with "free energy" and other fringe "technologies". I find the content of your posts hard to follow, and the style of your communication irritates me and, frankly, makes me concerned about your well-being.Hence, I am not inclined to participate in any further exchange. So on that count you are right: I am "out" of this discussion.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2021, 12:22:03 pm
content: dear ebastler: I 'm at work so I make it quick.I'm very sorry if I don't address all of your questions and concerns .Please keep level of your response- not at the conversation... street level.QuoteWith all due respect to you,:1. Please read (or watch) explanation of Free Energy included in my response.2.Quote from: marek1 on June 14, 2021, 01:34:19 pmDid you read what I wrote to you?I'm not threatening anyone .I'm your friend and I do have enormous respect to members and moderators of this forum.but expressing opinion has nothing to do with lack of respect.This is your cheap attempt to accuse me... what a shame... what a low trick...Quote from: ebastler on June 16, 2021, 12:00:29 pmDear ebastler ,You want to feel worthy?and be IN not OUT?- since June 14 you didn't formulate nor responded ( read it above)Don't complain thatyou "can't fly as high or high enough" or fly at all.Example:Wesley is Free Energy activist!!!!!!!This is one of Wesley's videos:https://youtu.be/izzujmKROWIWould You want to respond to it too?Don't complain that your brain is not at this level yetin this particular area of science.by the way. He said thathis work is given out for freeBut that device costs quarter of million of dollars.and the one on the leftOrtec is $96 000 .(he has 7 of them),Do the same handling the same pain, than present it and be IN.,.. if you will..Have you been too or have you ever ever been to particle physics?Well Wesley is in it too...

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 12:52:48 am
content: I got back from the lab. I'm little tired .. not as young any more..I'll try to respond to Dr. SaiSharma tomorrow or maybe even in the morning .. I can't be late to the lab but I try my best.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 12:59:51 am
content: @marek1 It was amusing in a schadenfreude kind of way for a short time to watch yet another attempt to make us believe black is white, up is down, and that the laws of physics don't apply if they contradict your pet theory, but I'm getting fed up of your passive-aggressive, condescending, and faux-polite attitude.Quote from: marek1 on June 16, 2021, 10:40:49 amI would ask the admins to close the thread before it devolves into a flame-war but by and large EEVBlog members are not naive enough to be so drawn by such an obvious flame-baiter, so it's probably unnecessary. Boredom with the circular arguments should be enough to kill this thread, I think.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 01:49:15 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 17, 2021, 12:59:51 amI got your point.Your line of defense or way you are acting is:- calling Americans scientists with names having zero evidence and not providing any explanation.- dishonoring other people just because they are in FE despite their value.- proposing to close this discussion because you have nothing to exchange ( correct me please if I'm wrong)Simple for you to understand:1 I don't want flames.2. I don't want fights3. I don't want to disrespect anyone including you.4. I'm alone against entire group of you holding all pressure and this is not easy nor making me feel good.5. I would love to have peaceful conversation and I thought that exchanging inflammatory phrases is now over.______________________________________So please don't attack me and put me in fire or need to respond in the same way.You want a peace than create environment of peace.After every fire there is a need to rebuild and forget what was wrong.But American values ofrights to my own level of expression should be obeyedwith all do respect that I truly have for you.Don't squash me just because you ignorantly can .. I didn't deserve it !!!!!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 03:17:52 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 17, 2021, 01:49:15 amYou claimed to believe in free energy...on a massive electronics forum...and now you say you don't deserve to be "attacked" AKA utterly proven wrong by actual science. Well then...I guess we shouldn't go after flat earthers, creationists, anti-vaxxers, audiophools, car mod fools, exc, exc. with actual science as well huh?

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 03:34:31 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 17, 2021, 03:17:52 amAbsolutely wrong and incorrect.I never said such words!!!!!!!!!!QuoteFree energy is just energy that doesn't have to be paid for.Free energy comes from conversion of energy from other natural sources that are free of charge.Thermal, water flow, sun, and so on...You paying for the device and get your energy for free.Overunity is a nonsense never existed and will never exist.This was explained in Wesley's video.https://youtu.be/l6uPHxQVEgQ?t=215The rest of your suggestive comment is irrelevant.How long you the respected group of world best professionals willpush me to respond to accusations instead of me going to peaceful constructive conversation with Dr. SaiSharma .

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 05:03:33 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 17, 2021, 03:34:31 amI have an honest proposal for you, which I believe to be constructive. Three simple steps:Stop posting on the public forum. If you stop now, you might still avoid getting banned.Send a personal message to SaiSharma via the forum. Use the "My messages/Send a message" function. (This is assuming that you don't have his email address; otherwise an email might be better.)Wait quietly and see whether he is inclined to respond to you.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 06:31:10 am
content: Only picked up on this little gem just now... In an earlier post from Tantatron, we have this statement (emphasis added):Quote from: Tantratron on June 15, 2021, 06:42:46 amAnd this is what marek1 makes of it. A deliberate mis-quote or utter lack of reading comprehension, followed by a multi-paragraph tirade in four different fonts. And of course the conclusion that Tantatron is "out", in a subsequent post.Quote from: marek1 on June 15, 2021, 10:59:47 am

author: Tantratron
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 07:37:50 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 17, 2021, 06:31:10 amThank you so much@ebastlerto take the time showing both the non-ethical behaviour and lack of RF engineering education of@marek1.In fact,some other partsof my initial posthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg3588296/#msg3588296has been modified or not answered... this is why I did prefer 2 days ago to not loose more time due to non-ethical conduct and mind energy loss from@marek1.Interesting to note thatDr Sai Kiran Orugantiaka@ShaiSharmain his post herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg3588418/#msg3588418kindly told@marek1to realize his paper was on another MHz frequency plan (in other words, read correctly published papers) and only with metal-air interface... not earth-air interface !On a side note, I happened to be in this forum because it helps me learning test equipment repair, it is a great forum which in my case helps keep going old tektronix equipment for my testing and R&D lab. So I tend to really focus here only on repair and tech but you might know that one of my consulting activity for more than 10 years consist of due diligence, 3rd party testing on incredible claims. I had few equity funds clients, military clients who paid my company to verify some theories, power testing integrity of some ZPE or OverUnity claims. I do team work with physicists, power electronics, radio and nuclear and after auditing so many devices, inventors...Lastly one should remember the burden of the proof when incredible claims belongs to the inventor, it cannot be transferred to the body rejecting the incredible claim. I always tell my customers that if a device claims anomalous effect not explainable by actual theory then only choice is build a prototype then have tested by independent 3rd party lab.To be IN or to be OUT...Merci, Alberthttps://www.tantratron.tk/about/index.html

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 09:18:43 am
content: Quote from: Tantratron on June 17, 2021, 07:37:50 amThank you, Albert. I was tempted to write a comment along those lines in response to one of the initial posts by marek1, where he argued that anything merits a debate until proven wrong (my paraphrasing). But you worded it better than I could have.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 09:40:55 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 17, 2021, 06:31:10 amthere is nothing wrong with questioning and that question was not directed to you... so why you acting like that or like some kid from the street ?I ask Questions onlyWhat is your contribution to the subject matter from science of Zenneck Wave stand point.?You didn't attempt to disprove the scientific basis of Dr Corum and your action is just to bull others.You want to feel strong than do it with knowledge..

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 09:48:07 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 17, 2021, 09:40:55 amDo you still not get it? You misquoted Tantratron, in a way that totally twisted the meaning of his post, and then challenged him to give you proof for statements he never made.I don't know whether you did that deliberately or because you lack reading comprehension. (Your most recent post makes the latter a more likely option.) But I certainly reserve the right to call you out on such nonsense.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 09:57:57 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 17, 2021, 09:48:07 amIT WAS QUESTION USING PART OF SENTENCE..got it now?There is nothing wrong with the questioning..stop bullying!!!!stop behave like some kid. Respond to the questions you were ask to respond too if you want to have constructive discussion!!!Don't formulate question showing lack of response to my questions.I will address comment of Dr Roserio separately.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 10:20:26 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 17, 2021, 09:40:55 amYou have already established the fact that I am "out" and not worthy of your powers of scientific debate.When I was 15, I visited a man who had published a series of full-page ads in the local newspaper where he "proved" that Pi = 3.2, squared the circle, and showed how to tri-sect an angle with just a straight-edge and compass. (That was long before the internet became a thing, so if you were a nut-case you had to spend real money to publish your theories...)I thought this would be a stimulating debate where I would show him the error of his ways. It was not. The guy was so deep into his circular reasoning that we could never establish common ground. He was a pensioner who had been lost in his thoughts and theories for far too long for anyone to get through to him. We parted amicably; I still have the self-published book he gave me; but neither of us changed their views on Pi or squared circles.Nevertheless I learned something from this experience, and I am practicing it right now.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 10:35:07 am
content: Quote from: marek1 on June 17, 2021, 03:34:31 amNo. The correct terminology for this is "renewable energy". The attempt by the Free Energy community to include renewables into their oeuvre is purely about trying to legitimise their pseudo science/scammery by associating it with real science and engineering. Real scientists and engineers do not fall for this trick, though sadly far too many politicians and members of the general public do.Please feel free to twist this post to suit your own ends as you have done with all the rest; I find it amusing to tick off all the NPD tricks you use...Word salad, check; gaslighting, check; flattery, check; hot and cold games, check.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 10:36:28 am
content: Quote from: Tantratron on June 17, 2021, 07:37:50 am1. the ?//............................// shows that this is part of sentence I was asking question about.2. there is nothing non ethical with questions.3. if the question is asking for High Q resonator than please be so kind and- show me your analysis of Resonators used by Dr Corum did you do it prior to formulating your statements?You were asked to answer every one of my questions and:- you didn't do it- you likely are not going to do it becauseit looks like pile of nonsense none of the students or PhDs around me never created for the past 10 years.And I think that it will be real fun if I show your response to them.Please be so kind and correct me if I'm wrong by answering all of the questions .I'll be glad to take my words backfor the question about High Q resonator please be so kind and provide me with the analysis of Dr Corum resonators.everything is in his patents. You need the link I'll provide it for you ..You wanna to bet?If I was you I would not respond to your own nonsense of potential animal and plant danger created by Zenneck waveAnd you will likely never respond to each one of my questions one by one.

author: marek1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 10:52:20 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 17, 2021, 10:35:07 am1.I agree to the most of your comment .Thank you for that.2. Free energy comes from conversion of energy from other natural sources that sources are free of charge.Thermal, water flow, sun, and so on...You paying for the device and get your energy for free.Renewable energy is free energy !!!! as this energy is free of charge.3. FE community is made from different elements but not all of them are alikeand yes you right 100% Real scientists and engineers don't want to be associated with that diversity.it is not good for their reputation , but some of them help others to understand more.It is my pleasure to interact with you .And I'm sorry but I must to go to my work in the lab...

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 05:11:50 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on June 17, 2021, 12:59:51 amPlease don't do this. Which is to say, don't close the thread and don't beg for threads to be closed.Any way, a little more schadenfreude. Investors are suing the people who suckered them into providing the money to build the shiny tower and keep some of the engineers needed for plausible deniability employed ... while skimming most of it for services rendered of course. The people being Don Harris, Charles Shaw, Michael K. Wilson, Robert Luna and James Frank Hansen.They tried to use a free speech protection law to get out from under the lawsuit and failed.The Corum brothers seem to be walking away unscathed though, wonder how much of the money ended up with them.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 05:46:51 pm
content: Don't worry, I banned the nutter, sensible debate may resume - for now.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2021, 05:18:09 am
content: Here's a nice summary article. It does not add much to the discussion, but its title is brilliant:The pros and cons of conning pros.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2021, 09:10:25 am
content: Quote from: Simon on June 17, 2021, 05:46:51 pmBut I just finished making popcorn

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2021, 11:48:28 am
content: Sorry, it might be fun to watch but just too much hassle to sot out later.