KSGER T12 tip selection - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2020, 07:17:01 am
content: Hello everyone, I have recently aquired the t12 soldering station by KSEGER, v2.1 (or however is written...), the thing works a treat but I don't understand how I'm supposed to change the tip preset.The station originally came with a (useless) PLCC blade, but on the station shows tip J02, which is wrong, i checked the temperature and is spot on anyway, but I think is really not optimal.I tried with differenti tips and the temperature is still right-ish but clearly there is something wrong.I tried to navigate the menu and under the "tip" entry i found a list of tips I can enable and disable, J02 is highlighted and I cannot find a way to disable it. I tried to enable/disable all possible combinations of tips I have and swap them but the config is always set at J02.Does anyone have a clue on how select the tip? Why they bothered with this list nonsense, I want to pick the tip I'm using straight away!!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2020, 07:48:39 am
content: maybe answered here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ksger-oled-t12-soldering-iron-station-stm32-v2-1s/you can't change the one and only selected tip to something else, add the new one.I don't think having the precise tip mass in the PID control algorithm makes much difference - the KSGER store tips are mostly steel, minimal copper. So a tip can vary in thermal characteristics. It's the usual, finding good tips from china with lots of copper is difficult.

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2020, 08:05:59 am
content: Uh thank you Floobydust! I missed that post and it partially answers my question.After a bit more research I found how to solve my problem. I'll leave it here for future reference:-The tip menu in the settings allows you to select which tips you want in the selection list you use to change the tip type. That selection is avaliable by pushing the knob and turn right at the same time.-by turning the knob on the left while pushing you can access the tip calibration procedure for the type you selected.I (wrongly) assumed that the only tip selection menu was the one in the settings, and I thought that i had to go there to change tip style.Did anyone tried this staion with genuine Hakko tips? are significantly better than knockoff ones?

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 11:26:34 pm
content: The one in settings lets you choose which tips you own - this way you don't have a ton of tips in your quick-switch menu ( push + right ) which you don't own. Calibration is push + left - although I think this should be in the menu...Here are some useful things:Push + Right = tip selection of tips you have marked as owned - you can only calibrate 1 of each tip at a time which is a limitation is you have a Hakko Brand X, KSGER Brand X, QuickCo Brand X, and others...Push + Left = Tip Calibration of tips you ownTap = Change tempExtremely Long Press = MenuTip selection Menu in menu = select which tips you own so you aren't overpopulating your quick select list and so you don't have to scroll through tips you don't own.You can use genuine Hakko tips with this station. They are higher quality and will last longer. Performance will be negligible... at least that has been the case between various tests using a pre-determined level of solder, melt to drop test, pre-determined length of solder wrapped on tip to melt, etc.... with the KSGER branded tips.The KSGER branded tips seem to be pretty good quality.. but Hakko will be better made with higher quality materials. I wonder if you get a warranty with the Hakko tips too?However, spending $2 per KSGER tip when buying 10 or 20 of them... vs $20 or more for a single Hakko tip... It makes more sense to buy KSGER tips because if you take care of them, even if they only last 1/5th as long as a Hakko tip, you are still saving 50%...

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 09:07:28 am
content: Quote from: Acecool on August 04, 2020, 11:26:34 pmYeah exactly, since mine came with no manual (IDK if even exists) I had to figure out with trial and error and by watching reviews on youtube.I never tried genuine T12 tips but if that is the case I think I'll be fine with the crap ton of cheap tips I bought on aliexpress.I also bought the aluminium "premium" handle because I could not stand the awfully long working distance of the crappy original one (basically it's a 907ish handle that comes as default).The aluminum handle works well enough after I replaced the rattly ball switch with a proper non-ROHS-mercury-toxic-deadly one.I saw also that they sell a stainless steel one, but found no reviews sadly.

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2020, 08:25:46 pm
content: You can get the D24 Hakko tip right now for $4 USD... Order $30 USD on that store and get a free $7 mug, or something else and free shipping...I just ordered a lot of different tips from Hakko, and from KSGER. The one D24 I got from hakko already performed about the same as the one I got with the station. I'll probably do some timed comparisons on camera just to see if there is any difference... obviously higher quality better quality materials on the tip, etc... so they'll last slightly longer at least... but 2 times the price - is it worth it? The other tips are around $11 right now, the cost of about $5 KSGER tips. I did order a few Hakko tips, and like 6 or so of the Hakko D24 tips...They are: 2.4D TIP FOR FM-2027https://www.hakkousa.com/2-4d-tip.html$4.70 per Hakko tip - or the cost of 2 KSGER tips. It is a good tip profile too... so I ordered a good amount of them.edit: Which handle did you get? I have the plastic black one with the blue silicone, and I just ordered the $16 black aluminum with black silicone - it has the silver ring between the silicone and the rest of the shaft.Is it that one, or the one with carbon fiber?Edit: And yes... the Hakko tip DOES WORK... I ended up ordering a bunch more for the FM-2027 which are all discontinued right now and on sale for about 1/4 to 1/5 the cost.Good time to try...My first order what I did was order the $7 Hakko silicone pad to remove the tips easily, the D24 tip, the tip cleaner and a tip cleaner replacement ( they are sending a replacement because the thing fits so loosely it just pops open when you plunge the tip or try to fluff up the brass or whatever it is ).. also the tip cleaner is quite thin in terms of material so I may put a weight in it. but then it'll pop open with anything added in.. I added some hot glue - just a tiny smudge in 3 places and that does keep it shut so I should be fine now.But that gets you to the free shipping mark, and you get a free product from the gift store. I chose the mug as it was the most expensive I think, and it looked decent enough. It is a bit small for the size of mugs that I like - I like a 4 to 8 cup mug size - it is a standard mug size...Edit: So 8 of the D24 tips total, several of the mugs because of each $30 order... 2 of the T12 tip trays ( since I found out they are made of aluminum instead of plastic... ) which are $17 each. wire strippers because I needed new ones... CSP-30-1 and 2 - D variants... 4 of the bent tip variants, 2 of 1 kind and 1 of one that showed not in stock but I got a refund for one of them even though the person said they had 1 in stock and changed the website to reflect it so I could order it.... so I'll likely not get that... and a fine conical.Also on the first order, I got some anti static tape, and more of the tape they had because it was on sale.B2300 HEAT RESISTANT PAD B2300 - to remove the tips easily... the GX12 connector does fit through the slot in the pad ok...599B TIP CLEANER 599B-02 - the bronze colored thing with 1 padHAKKO 599B TIP CLEANER REFILL 599-029 - the bronze colored pad 1 replacement padFS-100 TIP CLEANING PASTE FS100-01 -- cheaper on amazon right now for $7 instead of $102.5 MILS X 0.375 IN. POLYIMIDE TAPE SC-0403 x2 or?2.0 MILS X 0.75 IN. STATIC SHIELD GRID TAPE SC-0604 x22.0 MILS X 0.5 IN. ANTI-STATIC CLEAR TAPE SC-0602 x211OZ MUG CUP HGC0532.4D TIP FOR FM-2027 IN-502 -- Because they didn't allow returns on these... I bought one of the $4.70 versions which is also a decent profile just to make sure the tip would work and function... and it does fit properly and it does heat up... so I ended up getting more.

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2020, 04:33:19 pm
content: I got the all black aluminium handle, the central one in this pictureIt's quite nice and the working distance is good, but it tends to heat up after long usage but it's fine for me. If I knew there was a stainless steel one I would have bought that instead, but it's ok anyway.As for tips I bought a lot of those and for now they all work fine, I had:-ILS x1-D24 x2-D16 x2-K (plcc blade) x1-BCM 2 x2 (one came with bad finish and shape, I use it in my homemade T12-C245 soldering station as a backup)-BC 1 x1I think I'm set for a while, really like the station

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 04:36:44 pm
content: I would check the temperatures. The KSGER temps are 50C off at 250C ( thermometer reports 200 ) on the D24... The Hakko 2.4D is flawless, except at 480C it is 479C... every other temp is spot on. And right now they are only $4.70 on the Hakko website. I would highly recommend stocking up. I bought 8 of them. If you consider the KSGER tips are about $2.50 to $3, give or take a little, and the Hakko one is better quality, and the temperature is flawless... it is definitely worth it, plus the better materials.The KSGER tips are good, but the temps are just so far off... Also, when I tried to calibrate them, they would become even worse off.. I ended up using the Hakko tips to calibrate the KSGER tips and they became more accurate after doing that. Which is strange.

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 11:09:07 am
content: Yeah I tried checking with my multimeter's thermocouple (I'll have to buy a proper soldering iron thermometer) but I don't recall a temperature difference that massive.I think it was 15C off or so at 300C, but I admit I haven't checked througly, I use it at 270C or even 260C with leaded solder and it does everything except big ground planes or connectors (those I do at 330C).As it is night and day with my older station (old heater+tip style) and I love the t12 tip, really cheap and easy to work (i have also a homemade station for those, built using an old bench power supply!

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 01:10:01 pm
content: If it is only 15C off at 300, then that isn't terrible.My issue is that it was pretty far off, and when I recalibrated it got even worse. When I recalibrated using the hakko 2.4D tip for the D24 KSGER tip, then the KSGER tip became more accurate. Not as close as the Hakko which is only 1C off at 480C, otherwise it is perfect throughout.... but a tiny bit better than the default. Still off but better.I would still recommend getting some of the Hakko tips while they are on clearance / sale... 2.4D chisel tip is a pretty good all around tip... I can get into tight places with it, I can swipe with it, and it holds heat quite well... and the Hakko one was flawless for me in terms of temp.

author: Johnny B Good
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 12:49:41 am
content: Quote from: Acecool on August 22, 2020, 04:36:44 pmI know this is probably too late to be of any use but just in case you haven't already discovered this (and as a note to anyone else searching this topic thread for an answer), I thought I'd answer this question about the poor temperature stability of the KSGER branded T12 tips.I bought my KSGER Oled T12 station with, specifically, the 'cheap plastic' 9501 handle (nice short tip to grip distance, lightweight and fast tip change) mid August 2019. I did a lot of research, mostly YT video reviews, before purchasing mine from Banggood and carried on researching afterwards.I noticed almost everyone who had purchased the cheap KSGER T12 tips had experienced this temperature instability with every new tip they tried to calibrate. However, in every case, this strange instability would eventually clear up after a few minutes of run time, eventually allowing a successful calibration cycle to be completed.This initial temperature instability with a brand new never ever previously used KSGER T12 tip would be worse the higher the initial selected temperature which is a bit of a nuisance when the calibration process starts with a 450 deg C setting, working down in 100 deg steps to a final 250 deg calibration setting making the initial calibration attempt impossible to achieve first time round.The trick to getting unused new tips calibrated was simply to leave them idling at 300 deg for five or ten minutes before increasing the temperate in 50 deg steps for a few minutes at a time until finally arriving at 450 deg and allowing time for it to stabilise. Once that had been done, the calibration process would complete without any further problems (barring the odd defective tip).I experienced the same issues with my own 20 dollar collection of ten KSGER T12 tips I'd bought with the soldering station. However, I've only calibrated the third of those I'd found an immediate use for, leaving the rest unused for further testing in the event that I were to actually shell out for a genuine Hakko T15 tip or two in the future, which I understand are free of this instability issue.As hard as I searched for proof that genuine Hakko tips were actually free of this "instability from new" issue when used with a KSGER T12 soldering station which uses a PWM DC current rather than the PWM controlled 60 or 50Hz 24vac from a mains transformer used by the original Hakko soldering stations, I never did find any reviews that had confirmed whether this was actually true or just another unfounded myth.In the meantime, my best guess at to what is happening with the clone T12 tips is that the residual moisture in the mineral insulation filling (allowing chemically driven galvanic effects to interfere with the thermocouple voltage used to sense the tip temperature) is being driven out by the heat, eventually putting a complete end to this electrochemical interference induced by the use of a PWM DC heater current in these Chinese microcontroller based designs.It probably doesn't effect the genuine Hakko tips simply because they most likely included a final high temperature drying out cycle in their manufacture which the Chinese clone manufacturers simply skipped, leaving the end user to complete this final 'manufacturing step' using their own time and electricity costs.Otoh, it's just possible that no such drying out process was ever needed when they were going to be used with genuine Hakko soldering stations which only used PWM controlled AC heating current from a 24v mains transformer so it's quite possible that brand new Hakko tips may also show exactly this same initial behaviour when used for the very first time with one of these KSGER T12 soldering stations.As I've already mentioned, I couldn't find any reports of brand new Hakko tips being initialised with one of these Chinese clone T12 soldering stations with or without such initial symptoms so the question remained unanswered up to the time when I gave up the search some 6 to 10 months ago. Indeed, having just googled using the phrase "Hakko T12 tips versus clones" and similar search phrases, I still can't find any useful results that could answer this question.I've been tempted to test this by using a bench supply (that I didn't possess at that time) to warm the brand new unused tips to around the 300 deg C mark for half an hour or so before trying to calibrate them with the soldering station itself. Now that I do possess a suitable bench supply, I can now try that (long forgotten) experiment sometime soon.I'll post my test results here in the next few days. I made up a spare KSGER T12-9501 handle about six months ago from a DIY kit, along with a 3 metre length of silicone rubber cordage, both sold by Banggood (the only source I could find and even that required a google search to access where BG had hidden it almost out of sight of any reasonable search term put into their own execrable search engine!).The handle kit which had cost me just under 7 quid, didn't include cordage and, since I wanted to extend the miserly 1 metre length of the original and the cost per metre is less for a 3 metre length, I took advantage of this opportunity to upgrade both to a 1.5 metre cordage.This spare handle will make a handy test stand to cycle the unused tips through a 300 deg C heating cycle to test this drying out hypothesis of mine. Not only didn't I have a suitable bench supply at the time, I also didn't have a spare handle (and 5 pin socket) to facilitate such a test either but I do now!Incidentally, If my moisture/electrochemical effect hypothesis is actually on the mark, I should imagine that the initial drying out process using DC won't be doing any favours to the life of the "hot junction" between the Ni-chrome heater wire and whatever is used for the return wire by reason of this chemical corrosion.If nothing else, using something like a 12v ac voltage to drive out the moisture should eliminate this initial high rate of electrochemical corrosion in the cartridge heater assemblies used in these clone tips and help maximise their service life. The phrase "Electricity and water don't mix" is particularly true with DC but is far less so (for modest voltages at least) in the case of AC where the worst electrolytic corrosion effects are largely neutralised out, leaving essentially just that of self generated galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals (the voltaic pile effect)..If my initial testing using a DC voltage bench supply to dry out new clone tips proves successful, I'll be taking notes on the voltage needed to raise these 8 ohm cartridge tips to the 300 deg C target temperature with a view to using a low voltage mains transformer in place of the bench supply to eliminate this risk of accelerated chemical erosion through this unfortunate combination of DC current in a moisture contaminated electrical joint when relying on these T12 soldering stations alone to drive out the residual moisture from brand new clone tips.A T12/15 soldering tip conditioning unit based on ac heating current should not only eliminate the frustration of the first time calibration and additional wear and tear on the soldering station but also improve the longer term reliability of the cartridge heater/thermocouple use in these T12/15 design of soldering tips. To what extent such an improved service life you might obtain however, remains an unquantified variable but at least it should eliminate the worst effects of driving out the residual moisture using DC current, besides which, using a basic low voltage output mains transformer for the job is just about as simple and cheap as it gets.John

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 05:12:47 am
content: The clone T12 tip electrical connection problem is weird, the aliexpress stores advise it's normal for bad connection and flicker "ERROR" for a few minutes powering up a new tipOn many forums, it is believed to be crapola spot-welds/crimps - people take apart the tip and solder the connections. I have not tried this. The oxides/dissimilar metals would make a dog's breakfast for unwanted thermal EMF, if one bad connection exists, it's an extra intermittent thermocouple.Which store did you buy the problem tips from? Everybody claims to be KSGER it seems.

author: Johnny B Good
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 06:54:07 am
content: Thank you floobydust for those pictures.The pack of ten tips were purchased from Banggood. They and a few other items had been part of the same order I'd placed when I bought the KSGER OLED T12 soldering station mid August 2019.The original K tip supplied with the station went faulty after just a few hours of use so I put that to one side to experiment with at my leisure. I was thinking of powering it up directly from a 19v laptop charging brick to visualise the heater location without having to invest in an expensive infrared camera and then test it again afterwards to see whether I'd killed or cured itI might take a closer look at its connections to compare against those pictures.The rest of the tips I'd put into service had merely exhibited an initial temperature instability when trying to calibrate the station against each tip before eventually losing their instability. The symptoms seemed more a drying out process rather than an erratic intermittent contact. In any case, the thermocouple is actually part of the heater circuit in that the hot end junction is simply the connection between the nichrome heater wire, presumably at the tip end, and the other metallic alloy wire used for the return circuit back to the ring contacts, IOW, the heating element is also the thermocouple involving no other wires.I suppose the problems seen by others could include poor weld contacts but from my own experience and the descriptions of others', my best guess would be a less than perfectly dry mineral insulation within the tips slowly drying out with initial use eliminating the electrolytic conductivity and consequent galvanic action and it's interfering effect on the few tens of millivolts from the thermocouple during the brief off periods used to allow the sensitive opamps a chance to detect this low voltage control signal.When I get round to testing my unused tips, I'll stress test that faulty K tip as planned whilst I've got everything set up and then maybe take a close look at the wiring in the end cap if my stress test kills it rather than cures it. It just seems a little perverse to then deliberately kill the patient after it had survived a "Kill or Cure" therapy.John

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 07:08:10 am
content: I have these T12 (clone) tip pics showing the thermocouple. Most don't have as much copper as these- steel tips totally magnetic, you can check.The cement is the only thing that could take a while to harden? But it should not affect continuity I think.