Are good old rectangular metal project enclosures really that expensive now? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 08:30:40 pm
content: I want to make a C64 power supply from parts I already have, I need an enclosure about this sizehttps://canada.newark.com/hammond/511-0900/enclosure-511-series-ventilated/dp/09WX4011?pf_custSiteRedirect=trueBut the price is bonkers. And ebay and aliexpress aren't much help since the shipping is high.At that price I can just buy a modern replacement supply for a few $ more.Local stores in Montreal are not much help, far fewer stores, bad hours, little selection.Is this the new normal now?

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 08:48:10 pm
content: hello,https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/eco-chassis/hifi-2000-case-eco-e551815-180x150x55-p-1391.html

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 08:56:42 pm
content: I also find the prices for aluminum enclosures are silly expensive now.Even the ones out of Asia on eBay or Ali.china has been dumping aluminum products for years. ExtrusionsUSAandCanada CBSAlike heatsinks, flat rolled sheet etc. so we are paying anti-dumping and countervailing duties- EU, USA, Canada.Lots of Hammond Canada products are made in china or Taiwan. There is alsoBud Industries USAbut you will still feel ripped off as the prices are absurd from Digi-Key or Mouser.Once I got a local sheet metal HVAC shop to bend up an enclosure, then I got the bill which included the union labour (!) and it was a half-stoned tin basher that couldn't bend a lip properly.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 09:04:28 pm
content: I got a couple of enclosures a few months ago that were considerably cheaper than that, unfortunately I don't remember where I ordered them from. They're made in Taiwan and seem to be reasonable quality.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 09:12:42 pm
content: Not much use if you are in a rush, but it's worth looking out for junk instruments, particularly something specialised and obsolete. Often you can buy them for next to nothing. You have to replace the front panel, which depending on the design, you may be able to do with a sheet of aluminium.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 10:19:15 pm
content: Amazon has a few options as well. But agree with Zenith, if you can salvage a case from something else that would be a good option.This is my local electronics place, prices are reasonable, but dunno if its worth shipping to Montreal:https://leeselectronic.com/en/category/2440-metallic-caseshttps://leeselectronic.com/en/category/2439-plastic-cases

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 10:36:29 pm
content: Tayda has good prices and fast shipping if you can use one of the few sizes they have (mostly effects pedal sizes):https://www.taydaelectronics.com/hardware/enclosures.htmlAs far as used enclosures go, I have built some projects into old DB25 or DB9 manual switchboxes. They used to be plentiful and free or cheap. Maybe you could still find one.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 11:20:16 pm
content: Ah, I think that might be the place I got mine, it looks familiar.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 12:49:02 am
content: In Oz, they seem to be unobtainium from the usual "bricks & mortar" shops.They have the cast aluminium ones, but they all seem to be in silly sizes----if the depth & width are OK, they are usually too shallow in height.Either people don't build projects in the traditional boxes any more, or they do, & the perceptions of Jaycar & Altronics are skewed, but the result is the same.I haven't looked on eBay, but they will probably have the usual ones from North America, with a reasonable B.I.N price, but postage of $795 to Australia!

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2023, 07:20:02 am
content: Jan 20, 2021. Just what did you expect?The prices you see are quite DELIBERATE. The aluminum in that box alone would cost around $20 to $25. Then there's labor and paint and packaging and shipping. And there you go.Perhaps on Jan 20, 2025 things might get better. Not much hope till then. But that is only "might".Bud chassis; 3" x 4" x 6" for $17.30. But there is still the shipping. Not sure what that would be to Canada.https://www.mouser.com/c/enclosures/enclosures-boxes-cases/?height=76%20mm~~18%20in&length=3%20in%7C~19%20in&material=Aluminum~~Aluminum%20Alloy%7C~Metal&type=Cabinet~~Chassis%7C~Die%20Cast%20Enclosure%7C~Enclosure~~General%20Purpose&width=3%20in%7C~3.13%20in%7C~80%20mm%7C~3.18%20in%7C~3.2%20in~~3.21%20in%7C~3.3%20in%7C~3.46%20in%7C~3.5%20in%7C~3.6%20in~~3.68%20in%7C~3.74%20in%7C~3.75%20in%7C~3.78%20in~~3.82%20in%7C~100%20mm~~3.94%20in%7C~4%20in%7C~101.9%20mm~~4.05%20in%7C~4.09%20in%7C~4.3%20in%7C~4.38%20in%7C~4.5%20in%7C~4.65%20in~~4.73%20in%7C~4.75%20in~~4.8%20in%7C~125%20mm~~4.93%20in%7C~4.96%20in%7C~127%20mm~~5%20in%7C~128%20mm~~5.12%20in%7C~5.24%20in%7C~5.5%20in~~5.75%20in%7C~147%20mm%7C~5.91%20in~~153%20mm%7C~6.12%20in~~6.19%20in%7C~6.28%20in~~6.3%20in%7C~6.5%20in~~167%20mm%7C~7%20in~~178%20mm%7C~7.3%20in%7C~7.87%20in~~223%20mm%7C~9%20in~~9.5%20in%7C~9.8%20in%7C~250%20mm~~11.06%20in%7C~11.93%20in~~12.6%20in%7C~13%20in%7C~350%20mm~~14%20in%7C~15%20in~~401%20mm%7C~16.75%20in%7C~17%20in~~20%20in&rp=enclosures%2Fenclosures-boxes-cases%7C~Material%7C~Width%7C~Height%7C~Type&sort=pricingI have several 4' x 4' sheets of aluminum from about 10 years ago. It has been better than my money in a bank or IRA. Probably about doubled in price since then. Perhaps even more.Here's a thought: buy a used computer power supply for $5 or $10. Gut it. Then build your PS in the empty box.https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=used+computer+power+supply

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2023, 08:37:07 am
content: Quote from: EPAIII on February 25, 2023, 07:20:02 amAluminum closed yesterday at $2334.35 per metric ton which would mean the box would weigh around 10kg. There must be other more significant cost factors at play.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2023, 11:52:14 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on February 25, 2023, 07:20:02 amIf aluminium is costly, what's wrong with steel?After all, that's what the computer power supply boxes I've seen are mostly made of.Back in the day, the reasonably sized boxes on the Oz market were about 50:50 steel & aluminium.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 12:11:13 am
content: QuoteThe cost of the aluminium in the box linked to in the original post would cost £0.00 , its made of steel.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 01:13:24 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on February 23, 2023, 08:30:40 pmFor you, unfortunately, perhaps it is. Your Canuck bux are pretty devalued and shipping to Canada is something I totally avoid--and I'm sure I'm not alone. Meanwhile in the good ol' USA:https://www.hawkusa.com/manufacturers/hammond-mfg/enclosures/511-0900?gclid=Cj0KCQiAgOefBhDgARIsAMhqXA50ppNwazY03zhMWKN4G0hU-0Xghv7kgxpCm9uNKwtePTOl_z7zeNMaAmrjEALw_wcBor, from TME of all places:https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/hm-511-0900/desktop-enclosures/hammond/511-0900-as/

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 04:59:18 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 26, 2023, 01:13:24 amIt's more than just the conversion. For the same 511-0900 box, digikey.com: US$27.63, digikey.ca: CA$42.39The rate today is US$1.00 = CA$1.36 which should convert to: CA$37.58 The difference is: CA$4.81Why the difference? Because FUCK YOU!The same with newark.com vs canada.newark.com but a CA$2.05 difference instead.Maybe OP can go plastic, see:https://ca.robotshop.com/products/waterproof-enclosure-200x120x75-w-transparent-lidfor CA$16.44but not on digikey.ca where one of similar size is CA$27.00

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 05:32:37 am
content: Quote from: pqass on February 26, 2023, 04:59:18 amIsn't there a 5% VAT? And perhaps there are other direct or indirect expenses imposed by the government.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 05:48:28 am
content: I strongly recommend salvaged ATX power supply boxes.And if plastic is OK: bread containers. Those with locks are even IP 64 or so!Cheaply available from any supermarket.

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 06:04:02 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 26, 2023, 05:32:37 amNope, not included in that figure.The conservative gov't of the early '90s said that they wanted to be transparent with sales taxes, so other than certain excise taxes on gasoline/diesel and liquour, all taxes are itemized.Add 5% federal and 8%  provincial on top of that (taxes on shipping costs too).In some provinces it could be as much as 15% combined.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 07:18:29 am
content: Quote from: jfiresto on February 25, 2023, 08:37:07 amWell... finished metal products (sheet) you can expect 5 or 10x more than that, easily. Final manufacturing another 5-10x on top of that. That's still a fraction of the total cost -- the remainder is sales and distribution markups.Numbers would be more meaningful in the 1000s at least, let alone 100k+. I wonder what minimum quantity Hammond does direct, if at all?Think of it like shopping for Wurth parts at Digi-Key. You're paying double markup, for just the convenience if anything at all.Tim

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 09:36:56 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on February 26, 2023, 07:18:29 amI was being over specific, focusing on the elemental aluminum (the OP did not specify his term), in the hope that he would research the chain of mark ups.As to that, I found an Indian firm advertised aluminum 6060 coil for not much more than the commodity market spot price. It may, however, actually be something else. I also found a U.S. vendor retailing Western Plastic food industry aluminum foil for around 8 dollars a pound which might upper bound a box's material cost. I do not know what alloy that would be.Here in Germany, the Hammond analogue of a one of their thick-walled ABS boxes I recently purchased has only been 1~2% more, in unfinished aluminum, and ca. 45%(!) more in aluminum painted black, quantity one.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 04:08:20 pm
content: Not always an enclosure is expensive...

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 07:11:04 pm
content: I guess at this point it's almost the same price to go to 2020 extrusions and related hardware and build a nonsensical LEGO-style enclosure instead. Might as well have fun.Any recommended aliexpress stores that have all the brackets and things in one stop?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 12:17:24 am
content: I gave some decent options for $15.The 2020 brackets are cheap:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799876735921.htmlBut you'll still need sheet aluminum or plastic to form the sides, then drill and cut. So the amount of work you'll put in to save <$10 is going to be high.I would stop by the local scrapyard and second hand store, as we've suggested above, if you have time.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 01:00:51 am
content: Seems cheap to me:SmallBiggerEven biggerBig BoxBoxierAlso, usually Aliexpress has no import taxes with orders under 100$ to Canada.Everything I listed has a 1$-9$ shipping.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 01:08:07 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on February 23, 2023, 08:30:40 pmTry this place as it may have appropriate junk as they have a bunch or surplus junk:Acces Electronique Dollard-des-OrmeauxI found some good AC high power wall wart supplies (Good for old Atari 800 & disk drives...) and also small switchers.Don't bother calling and asking, it is one of those places you need to just go to and see whats there.Open Saturday and Sunday if that helps...

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 01:39:39 am
content: I my experience, "professional" pre-made boxes have been "silly expensive" for at least 40 years. Unless you find one of the right size on the surplus market (increasingly rare, as custom-made boxes have become more popular for commercial gear, and surplus stores have been done in by cheap overseas "new" components.)In high school, I used to build projects into cardboard boxes, and after graduating from college I noticed that your average "home-supply store" looked like they had a better selection of interesting and not-too-expensive boxes than what you'd get from an electronics supplier.(of course, 40y ago, "silly expensive" was a much lower absolute number than it is now.)

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 02:29:42 am
content: Visit your local sources for dead microwaves, toaster ovens etc. In addition to odd lot of switches and the like, the enclosures are largish sheets of mild steel or stainless steel. Plenty for small to medium boxes. You can also branch out to washered, dryers, fridges etc to get materials for large boxes.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 04:43:41 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 28, 2023, 01:00:51 amThey are all a tad smaller than I would normally build things in.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 09:13:13 am
content: This reminds me I have to buy a can of cookies or something, to make a shielded test box.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 11:12:04 am
content: Thinking outside the box - maybe the IKEA knarrevik table?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2023, 12:26:21 am
content: Quote from: armandine2 on February 28, 2023, 11:12:04 amClever idea!