Following the solar road: The solar car. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 11:20:26 am
content: (In German, sorry):https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/E-Auto-mit-Solarmodulen-Sion-Sono-Motors-bekommt-10-Millionen-auf-einen-Schlag-4630797.html(Short: Solar cells attached to the car will charge the car when not in use. Spoiler: Not really a lot of charging going on... - Crowdfunded, already collected almost 50 Million EUR.)

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 11:34:54 am
content: The actual crowd funding is on their websitehttps://sonomotors.com/which has an English translation optionThey wanted to raise 50 million Euro between 2nd and 30th December 2019, but extended to 20 January 2020 (50 days) because they didn't reach the original goal in time.Doesn't 50 million Euro seem like a rather small amount to deliver actual cars?I guess a lot of that will be deposits, not actual full payment. Some is also loans. They do proivide a funding breakdown on their site, including cancellations already processed.If they do raise the 50M as deposits/loans then I'd imagine they have a fair chance of getting additional funding as well. But how much?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 11:56:05 am
content: They say you get 30km per day of range by sun. If I got 2 liter of feul a day for free I'd be happy.Germany is a tough crowd to sell EVs to.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 02:02:11 pm
content: When I had the same idea long before. The reality in most Citys is:a) the Car is in some kind of Car park, Parking lot with no Sunb) if the is Outdoor (depend on the City) the Bulings are so hight that a small amount of Sunlight reaching the GroundI would use the Sunlight "just" for an Co² neutral AirCondition in the Summer nothing else.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 03:22:35 pm
content: I have a solar panel on the top of my car (3rd gen prius). It generates enough energy to drive the fan in the car, so it doesnt get that warm in the summer. If I have to park in the sun. But I dont like parking in the sun, and most people dont. The entire premise is stupid. And no, you wont get 34km/day, maybe you get 6-7 in california, parked under the sun, where every leather and plastic in your car rots away. Others calculated this.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 03:28:50 pm
content: What I know this "prototype" is the most effective Solar Cell:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye-sensitized_solar_cell8% OutputWell on a House Roof, Solar Field,... its good enough but on a CAR?!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 03:49:11 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on January 09, 2020, 03:28:50 pmNo, it's not. Silicon cells sre more efficient. Thin films are just smaller.

author: chefkoch84
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 06:04:32 pm
content: https://sonomotors.com/en/technology/they claim"[...] This enables the Sion to generate an additional range of up to 5,800 kilometers per year – using only solar energy. Completely free of emissions and free of charge."^^ that range is "measured for Munich"and later they add this graph:- At least the "Average cloudy sky" data sums up to the 5800 km per year. (most bullshit bingo companies would have assumed a full year of clear sky)- also claimed is 220W/m^2 maximum panel efficiencyFor the car they claim:- "The battery capacity of 35 kWh enables a range of 255 kilometres according to WLTP driving cycle"--> So 35kWh / 255 km calculates to 0.137 kWh/km .... or 13.7 kWh / 100 km( btw... real driving (on a german Autobahn) will be >20kWh / 100 km ...... but just reasonable marketing lie factor was deducted here)--> correcting their shitty units on their graph: 22 km ( averagely clouded day in Apr-Jun ) calculates to:22km * 0.137kWh / km = 3.014 kWh-->(for completly sunny day in Jun... in Munich)34km * 0.137kWh / km = 4.658 kWh--> for the entire year5800km * 0.137kWh / km = 794.6kWhIn the Munich Area some solar power values are:Plant dimensions 0.32 kWpModule pitch 30 °Module orientation 180 ° (S)Yield per year 343 kWh(these would be 2 modules ...each 200W peak ... Area of 1580mm * 808mm = 1.277m^2 )Source:https://stromrechner.ibc-solar.de/--> To Yield 794.6kWh per year one would need 0.32kWp * (794.6kWh / 343 kWh) = 0.7413 kWpAnd according to their own 220 W/m^2 "peak performance" ... this would be : 0.7413 kW / ( 220 W/m^2 ) = 3.3695 m^2 (square meters)BUT REMEMBER ... this is the estimated projected area of solar cells facing 60 degrees elevation ... perfectly South ... shaddow free ... 0% loss for battery up till now.Now I hand-over to somebody calculating the size of the car... based on that marketing thing where the cells are visible :

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:31:22 pm
content: Haven't we had this conversation several times and each time agreed that it's not going to deliver nearly as much as claimed?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 06:42:08 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on January 10, 2020, 06:31:22 pmBut it's going to deliver close to 50M EUR. Not too shabby.

author: chefkoch84
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 11:18:29 pm
content: Or the car ist just very very big ...

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 08:11:30 am
content: And we have a new entry in this field.https://www.squadmobility.comFrom specs:PerformanceMax speed 45 km/hSuspension 4 wheel independentMotors 2 x in-Wheel RWDPower 2 x 2kW (total 4kW)Batteries 2 x portable Li-ionCharging Solar & 220 VTurning circle 6 meterRegeneration YesGearing Fwd | ReverseBatteriesDimensions Portable 2 xChemistry Li-ionBattery range 50 km per Batt*Max. Batt. Range 100 km +*Solar Range 20 km / dayCharging Solar & 220VRegeneration Yes*exclusive solarThis is the first solar car proposition I've seen where the solar mileage claim doesn't completely fall apart at napkin math.4 kW motor, 45 km/h max speed, 20km, so at full power and 45 km/h it would need ~1800 Wh for 20 km. With 1.3 m^2 of solar panels (eyeballing the profile of the car) and 160 W per m^2 it would need to soak in the ideal sun for about 9 hours. Assuming it doesn't actually need full power to maintain 45 km/h, that seems in the right ballpark during summer months.All that being said, it's the price that might be the deal maker. They're asking € 5750 ex. tax, for the basic model, up to € 9500 ex. tax for top of the line "signature edition", with doors, windows, air conditioning, and cargo box. Can they really make it for that amount? There are electric bicycles that cost more.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 02:31:31 pm
content: Except 45Km/h is about 28Mi/h...slightly faster than a damn golf cart.unless that is their intended purpose and not actual road travel, which it's useless for.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 03:39:01 pm
content: They are going for L6e homologation, which has the 45 km/h speed limit, but is still road legal.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 10:56:27 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on May 31, 2020, 02:31:31 pmEven for a US'ian you've a rather narrow world view:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_VehicleQuote from: Domagoj T on May 31, 2020, 03:39:01 pm4kW peak power would see it much slower on a hill/incline, but still a nice little package.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 05:21:09 pm
content: Those are literally just road legal golf carts.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 09:07:11 pm
content: The last time I did the math for this, it was better to spend the money for solar power on a larger main battery.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 11:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 01, 2020, 05:21:09 pmSome are, but most are much more like motorcycles or small cars than a golf cart/scooter.People like to sit upright in a vehicle so all sorts of small vehicles end up looking outwardly similar despite having radically different underlying drivetrains.