Cleaning solder iron tip - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 08:28:26 pm
content: I have an Ersa i-Con Pico soldering station and a 102CDLF1.2 tip.I've seen some youtube videos teaching how to clean and tin the iron tip. But I think I can't make it as clean as I see on those videos.Usually I rub the iron tip on that copper sponge ball every 2 or 3 usages, I mean every 2 or 3 soldering actions. And when I put the iron away for the night I usually stick the iron tip into some solid rosin and power it off and let the rosin to go solid on the iron tip so that it gets coated by the rosin and be protected while I'm not using it.And when I want/need to remove some component I always try to tin by sticking it to the solid rosin, applying some solder, shacking it off of the iron tip and rubbing the tip on that copper sponge ball but seems I can ever get that clean, smooth, flat shiny tip I see on youtube videos.What am I doing wrong, eventually? I can post some pictures before and after this procedure so that you guys can tell me if the tip is in good conditions or not!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 09:47:21 pm
content: You should never need to clean and tin the iron tip other than the very first time you switch it on. After that it should stay smooth and shiny always unless you damage it by soldering something inappropriate (for example, using the tip to melt plastic or trying to solder aluminium will make the solder stop sticking to the tip).When you first get the iron you should drown the tip in solder the very first time you switch it on. And then, when you have finished soldering, don't stick the tip in flux, just wipe it gently on a damp sponge and immediately cover it in solder before switching it off. Before next use, switch on the iron and wipe off the old solder to leave a shiny tip ready for soldering.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 09:55:36 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 11, 2018, 09:47:21 pmWhat I meant is that every 2 or 3 times I solder a wire or a component lead, I clean the tip on the wet sponge. I think this is recommended.Then, sometimes, when I turn the station on, I stick the tip in solid rosin, then I melt some solder on the tip and wipe the tip on the wet sponge and repeat this twice or thrice or so to clean and re-tin the tip. But this procedure is done only once in a while.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 10:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: psysc0rpi0n on August 11, 2018, 09:55:36 pmIf you clean the tip on a wet sponge you should immediately apply fresh solder to it.QuoteIt should never be necessary to stick the tip in solid rosin. It is not a normal procedure when soldering.When you turn the station on the tip will be coated in a thick layer of solder which you put there last time you turned the iron off. So when you turn the iron on that thick layer of solder will melt, you will wipe it off using a rag or something leaving behind a shiny surface, and then you will immediately apply a bit of fresh solder to this shiny surface and start soldering.Just before you turn the iron off you will flood the tip with a big glob of solder to protect it until the next time you turn it on again.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 12:13:03 am
content: I've never found it necessary to add solder to the tip once it's been tinned. Wiping it off on the wet sponge doesn't take all the solder off, it just smooths it out to a thin clean coat.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 01:07:17 am
content: To much care will wear tip faster, like anything else

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 03:17:11 am
content: QuoteDoes your solder come in a wire? Is there already flux in there? If anything, you want to melt the solder to the iron, first. Then if it doesn't wet the entire tip and leaves some cold spots, dip it in the rosin and then rub it on something like the sponge/wool.If the entire tip wets where it is supposed to, don't clean it anymore with flux or sponge. If there's residue higher up on the chrome, that can be mostly removed with brass wool, but I find scraping with a brass tube will get it squeaky clean (not necessary; just esthetic). Just be careful to not break/flake the chrome plating where it ends.It is normal for most tips to start turning color after long enough use at high enough heat. With my Hakko T18 tips, the chrome will eventually start turning dark bluish starting at the base and working towards the tip.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 08:45:01 am
content: Yesterday I tried to melt some solder and turn off the station but the solder blob didn't cover the tip completely because it sat more to one side than to the other (it's a screw driver shape tip).Even after I hold the iron vertically to try to avoid the blob to go only to one side, still it sat mostly on one side, therefore not covering the while tip.See picture in the following link.https://drive.google.com/open?id=1O4_7Lk1PmNFb27k4_jwu8f2nFLdkGDAK

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 01:43:59 pm
content: Tips do wear out, and if you over clean them, that can accelerate the wear.Sometimes a spotwears outstops wettingbecause it's the spot that doesn't get used much/ever. The neglected spot is left dry and it oxidizes a bit. Depending how thick the iron layer on those Ersa tips, you might be able to bring it back with abrasion/buffing. But if it's not causing performance issues, you could just leave it alone.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 01:46:22 pm
content: The pictures aren’t that sharp but it looks like burnt rosin buildup to me. Stop dipping the tip in rosin, it’s not necessary. Just learn proper tip care.Look at this video first:https://youtu.be/Mvrw8FHjsW0You might need to get a tip reactivator. But I think just proper cleaning and tinning should do it.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 07:34:26 pm
content: You guys seen the pictures? That was yesterday after trying to add a blob of solder to the tip. I think I need to show you guys the tip clean of solder and residues. Just the tip itself. I just tried again the blob and now it looks better. After dinner I'll take a couple more of pictures of the solder blob now!

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 07:54:56 pm
content: A solder blob doesn't show us much as we cant tell if its wetted the tip uniformly. As a one-off, to show us its actual surface condition, wipe as much solder off as possible, then put both sides of the tip on some desolder braid to remove any solder stuck in pitting, then switch off IMMEDIATELY, let cool, clean any flux off with IPA and a paper towel and photo the tip. When you switch back on, you must keep rubbing flux cored solder on the tip till it starts to melt, and restore the normal solder coating as soon as possible.I wouldn't be surprised if the tip is already FUBARed, but if the plating is sill intact it *may* be salvageable.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 08:24:33 pm
content: I used to wipe my iron tips on a piece of denim (actually my blue jeans). Then I started using a damp sponge, since the sponge came with the new iron. Then I discovered the brass wire wool thing, and I've never looked back since. Stick the iron into the brass, withdraw a perfectly clean tip.The plating on the tip can be restored, using any of several methods. I think you may even be able to buy a compound made for this purpose.Here's something that might help:https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-repair-your-worn-out-solder-tip/

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 08:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on August 12, 2018, 07:54:56 pmI'll do that when I have some charge on my proper camera! The other pictures were taken with my smartphone that despite it all should be able to do better close ups!

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 08:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on August 12, 2018, 08:24:33 pmI appreciate the tips but last thing I'll do is sand paper my iron tips. I've already seen videos saying not to sand paper iron tips because it's an huge mistake!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 08:47:56 pm
content: It really shouldn't be a big deal, once the tip is tinned it should stay tinned without any added effort. Keep the temperature set to a sensible level and wipe it off on a wet sponge occasionally. I never have to re-tin the tip or do anything crazy like trying to sand it. I thing I got around 10 years of frequent use out of the first tip on my soldering station before it started to seriously erode.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 10:31:24 pm
content: Ok, this is the best I could do.I followed above instructions.1 - Heat iron up.2 - Clear it the best I could on the copper wool ball (copper or whatever is the material).3 - Cleared it again on that desolder braid.4 - Wiped it with isopropyl alcohol and kitchen paper towel.These are the pictures I could take with my old Canon 450D (Rebel XSI).I placed them on Google Drive so that their size could be kept and therefore more definition. EEVblog only allows attachments of about 2Mb.https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1O4_7Lk1PmNFb27k4_jwu8f2nFLdkGDAKEdited;I don't know why there is an attachment here! I got an error message when I was trying to add the pictures about attachments to be bigger than 2Mb.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 11:07:38 pm
content: That looks fine. There's no sign of pitting, and now you've cleaned it, there isn't excessive flux buildup. It might benefit from some vigorous brushing with abrasswire brush to remove any remaining spots of charred flux.IMHO, simply stop dipping the tip in flux when you switch off. Instead, wipe off excess solder on the brass turnings and retin immediately before switch off.You probably also need to replace the brass turnings tip cleaner - it must be heavily contaminated with all the excess flux you've been using. If you cant easily get a replacement, soak it in a jar of IPA or other dry denatured or industrial alcohol, or acetone, overnight to soften the flux residue, roll it on kitchen paper to dry it off, then rinse with more alcohol or acetone, rolling it on kitchen paper until it doesn't leave any flux stains. However that's a *LOT* of work and solvent so isn't worth doing if you can order a replacement brass cleaner for next day delivery, or even if you can find a local stockist for brass pot-cleaners (pan scourers) made of similar brass turnings.If you want to try a damp sponge for routine tip cleaning, which may do a better job of removing excess flux buildup from your tip, either get the proper sort from your supplier or get a preferably undyedcellulosesponge, sold for domestic use, and wash out the plasticiser its saturated with to keep it soft in the packet with hot water + a drop of dish detergent. To prevent mineral and contamination buildup, wash out the sponge daily with hot water, and press as much as possible of the water out against a flat surface before use. If you live in a highly chlorinated or hard water area, you should use distilled or demineralised water to rinse the sponge after washing it and to moisten it during the day.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 08:26:09 am
content: The tip looks great. Just follow the tip care in the Ersa video I showed above and you should be just fine!!Ian.M, I thought it wasdesirablefor the brass wool to contain flux?? So you wouldn’t want to deflux it with solvents. However, you’re probably right that it has lots of burnt flux residue in it. But I’d remove it mechanically, just by massaging and pulling the wool over a trash can to break off the larger bits. Then roll it back into a ball and stuff it back in. (I do this, gently, to remove solder bits from it.)

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 09:29:44 am
content: I suspect the O.P's dry tip cleaner is heavily contaminated with burnt rosin, and solder dross, and even if its totally defluxed will perform better than its current state. 0:38 in the Ersa video says the dry tip cleaner mustn't be dirty with "flux & oxides". I suggested solvent defluxing as an emergency measure if replacement was impossible.One doesn't actually want the solder to wet the brass wool as that will lead to rapid deterioration of its brushing action so adding flux to it other than any that was originally applied by the manufacturer is likely to be counterproductive. However if you want to try dusting it with finely powdered dry rosin, or wetting it with diluted rosin R or RMA liquid flux then drying it , please do report back if there is any noticeable difference in its cleaning performance.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 04:33:20 pm
content: Tip looks pretty good to me. As the others have said, stop dunking it in flux all the time. You should be storing it with a good blob of solder on the tip, not buried in flux. Also put a little blob of solder on there even between joints if you have a delay of more than a couple minutes. When you're ready to make a joint, just wipe the tip on the brass wool or a sponge and apply a bit of fresh solder. Wipe on the brass wool or sponge between joints and if you have to wait for more than a couple minutes for a joint, add a little fresh solder to the tip until you're ready to make the joint.Another thing to consider is what temperature you are setting the iron to. Very high temps will quickly accelerate oxidation on a dry tip. Try to stick to 320°-350° C max.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 08:49:32 pm
content: Well, I've just read the latest posts.In fact I have a lower quality sponge and it has some rosin residues and also some solder residues. I always wet it completely with water and then I squeeze it the most I can so that the sponge stays only barely moisted!The brass wire sponge is the one that came with my soldering station and I think it's still in good conditions. I have shook it a couple of times and I'm not an every day solder guy. It's just a few times a week, at least until I finish my graduation. After that I might be a little bit more active, but I'll see it then.Next friday I'll buy a proper sponge and maybe some container to rest it there and be able to use it without the need of being constantly holding the one I have in place because I have no proper place to have it secured!Anyway, as of now, I'll follow the tips I see here.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 08:55:07 pm
content: I use a sponge I bought a package of for $1 at Dollar Tree. I cut a hole in the middle then trimmed it to fit the tray in my soldering station and it works fine. I wet it so it's nice and moist, not dripping all over but I don't squeeze it out either. It works just fine.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 08:55:16 pm
content: QuoteIf the iron layer is oxidized and doesn't hold solder, those oxides have to be removed one way or another... IF you want that spot to wet, again. And mechanical removal is one of the best ways to do it.There is a huge difference between different soldering iron tips. Some have only a very thin plating. Those should never be sanded with a rigid abrasive surface. But buffing with a soft material, like pencil eraser or cloth/leather with buffing compound might be ok if you keep away from chrome layer.The iron layer on some irons is very thick and a new one could be filed quite a bit with a bastard file before you erode all the way through. The extra thickness is there so they last longer. Of course, you would want to remove as little good iron as possible. Sanding with fine grit paper might be perfectly fine. The paper goes up to 3k grit, ya know. But no matter how thick the iron layer, the chrome is typically very thin and can be damaged very easily.I have no idea what kind of tip the Ersa has. If the cold spot isn't affecting your soldering, then don't worry about it. If it is causing problem, then it doesn't work, anyway. Order a new one. And feel free to try w/e it takes.The iron in the pic you posted looks like a cheapo iron that takes copper tips electroplated in a very thin iron layer. They do not last long no matter what you do to them.** edit:A lot of people like to cite the iron is just a plating over the copper. This is not necessarily true. One of the most popular soldering iron is Hakko 936/888. The iron shell is cast/molded. The copper is swaged into the shell with a bit of silver solder dust between. Then a second iron piece is pressed into the back. Then the tip is heated to ~1000C to melt the silver solder and fuse the 3 pieces together. The tip undergoes some machining of the outside of the tip for final dimension and smoothness/finish. The only part that is electroplated and super thin is the chrome layer, where solder doesn't stick. This is obvious if you ever cut one apart. And you can find Hakko patent info describing this process, albeit in more technical terminology and with a bit of vaguery.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 09:44:24 pm
content: KL27x, always good to know. Thanks for sharing that info!About the sponge, I've seen somewhere that it should be wet just to the point when you use a kitchen paper napkin on it with small pressure and not water comes on the napkin. I think this might be due to avoid temperature shocks on the iron tip.Will any kitchen sponge will do for this purpose other than the green (abrasive) ones?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 09:54:22 pm
content: Well like I said, I use a cheap kitchen sponge from the dollar store and it works fine. All I did was cut a hole in the middle to make an edge to wipe the tip against and a spot for the excess solder to fall.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 11:23:21 pm
content: You need a CELLULOSE sponge - when overheated they char but don't melt. Plastic foam sponges are totally unsuitable - unless you keep them far far wetter than is safe for the soldering bit, some of the surface will melt slightly as you wipe the tip, leaving it contaminated with burnt plastic which will corrode the plating if left on the tip.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 12:00:22 am
content: That's a good point. I don't know about elsewhere, but cellulose sponges are pretty much ubiquitous here. Other types are available, but the cheapest most readily available types are cellulose. They come in a wide range of colors and have a soft squishy feel when moist and get rock hard when they dry out.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 12:34:03 am
content: Quote from: psysc0rpi0n on August 13, 2018, 08:49:32 pmWhy even bother with a sponge, since you have the brass wool? It's superior to the sponge in every way, and causes less damage to the tip.Quote from: KL27x on August 13, 2018, 08:55:16 pmIt's an Ersa tip. They're extremely high quality, known for long tip life. Ersa describes them as "ERSADUR LF soldering tips have an increased layer of iron, which increases tip life." (No idea what about the pic makes it look cheap to you. It looks nothing like the el-cheapo irons. Or did you accidentally confuse the thumbnail of the youtube video showing how not to fix a gnarly iron? Cuz that's not the OP's iron…)The OP told you what iron and tip it is: theErsa 0102CDLF12.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 01:03:29 am
content: QuoteI purposely associated the pic/link the OP posted as the one he used to show that sanding a tip is necessarily a bad idea.QuoteWhere does it sound like I'm confused about what iron the OP is using?I am sure I could research the exact tip OP is using, but I'm not that interested in solving this earth-shattering mystery. And having no firsthand knowledge/experience with Ersa, I don't think that my googling"ERSADUR LF soldering tips have an increased layer of iron, which increases tip life."Would have been helpful, considering this is just a marketing quip with no quantification, nor even any attempt to define the thing to which this relative, un-quantified comparison is being made.Since you have firsthand experience (presumably), your post has more weight to it.I have no opinion or guess as to how thick the iron layer is in OP's specific Ersa tip, now what he should attempt to use to clean it. And the thickness of the iron layer is not a direct judgement on the quality/value/usefulness of the tip. JBC advertises a thin iron layer for the purpose of better thermal conduction. That's a selling point for their market.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 01:21:22 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 14, 2018, 01:03:29 amWell, when you say "I have no idea…", that kind of gives that impression!Quote from: KL27x on August 14, 2018, 01:03:29 amAye. The OP's iron is from a series that only uses lead-free tips, but on older models, some tips existed as normal or lead-free, so I assume it's a thicker iron layer vs. the standard type.This PDF (the source of the quote, because it was from when they were just beginning the lead-free (LF) type tips) goes into it more:http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/40705.pdfThis PDF is their current catalog. Pages 38-39 say a few other things about the tips, but less actual specs about the plating.https://www.kurtzersa.com/fileadmin/medien/members_final/Electronics/9_Medien/9.5_Kataloge/9.5.1_Tools/Ersa_Werkzeugkatalog_eng_web.pdf

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 01:36:15 am
content: When I say I have no idea what kind of tip theERSAhas, it pretty much implies I know what kind of iron he is using. How else would I know he's using an Ersa if I didn't read his posts? ... but I don't know enough about the tip it uses to recommend he go at it with sandpaper or not.QuoteJBC is the only company I know that had published the thickness of their tip iron layer. The only reason I have offered opinion on Hakko 900M/T18 tips is because of firsthand knowledge. And I also know that if they published a thickness, it would have a huge tolerance. It's not a plating just thick enough to follow the surface irregularities of the copper underneath. It starts out thick enough that it can be machined from the outside. A little sandpaper or stoning is not a big deal.***added: If you see any sanding marks on a T18 tip, they're from the post-machining on the iron layer, itself. Those aren't the marks on the copper underneath; you could sand those marks out, if you wanted to (on the IRON layer, only. NOT the chrome).*** On the really thin platings, you cannot sand like that; but you can judiciously buff/polish. "Cleaning" in any shape or form is removing material, whether you use an aggressive flux or a mechanical method. I imagine only the cheapo firebrands have plating thin enough to polish away, accidentally. But I'm hardly going to tell OP that it's definitely OK to do something which might make the tip worse.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 02:02:37 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 14, 2018, 01:36:15 amThe OP provided the part number of the tip. Not hard to figure out what it is, google search, ya know? And you implied the OP was using a cheapo iron, which means you didn't know anything about the product, never mind that they're very high quality soldering stations. Hence why I assumed you'd confused the pix.Quote from: KL27x on August 14, 2018, 01:36:15 amWell, you said all sorts of things based on the assumption that it was cheap junk, which it ain't… (No, these aren't gonna wear out quickly "no matter what you do to them". On the contrary, they have the reputation of very long life.)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 02:07:48 am
content: QuoteI would wager you're in a small minority to have inferred this from any post I've made in this or any other thread.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 10:24:31 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 14, 2018, 02:07:48 amReally?QuoteSooo....youweren'tactually saying the iron looked like cheap junk? I use an Ersa iron that has had the same tip since I bought it. That "cheapo" thin plating has lasted almost 10 years now. Of frequent use also, not once a month. Shows no signs of wearing out yet. I should add that I don't do much lead-free soldering, which wears tips much more rapidly.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 10:30:11 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 13, 2018, 08:55:16 pmI would like to see some reference on this. I find it very hard to believe that there would be any machining done on a soldering iron tip. There isn't room in the price. I would also find it very hard to believe that the iron layer on any tip is more than a very thin layer. Certainly not thick enough to be machined or even filed on without removing it. Aside from the fact that it would seriously hurt heat conductivity.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 09:29:44 am
content: QuoteI actually said the iron in the vid/thumnail that OP posted in his reply #14 looked like cheap junk. OP and I are both fully aware that this is not an Ersa and is not the iron that he uses, nor did OP seem to take any offense seeing as he thanked my post.QuoteMy source is firsthand experience. So my post is "some reference on this."The actual soldering iron tips on which I have observed (and sanded out) coarse machine marks on are T12 clone tips from China. My genuine Hakkos are finished fine enough I have not seen any obvious marks (but they are obviously machined, too). If you want to actually see these machine marks on the iron portion, see Ian's post about wiping off all the solder and being sure to re-tin it, and whatnot. He went into pretty good detail, and I don't want to repeat it. Once the solder is removed, I can see what I'm gonna call 60-80 grit linear sanding marks on the flats of both the T12 tips I actually use: 3mm BCF and the knife.On the knife tips, which have a more complex shape, you can also clearly see these obvious linear sanding/grinding marks under the chrome in the flats in the intermediate section between the wettable tip and where the shaft becomes round, again. And on the BCF3, of which I have had 3 and some are worse than others, there are ridges in the shaft under the chrome which are obviously sanding/grinding marks put on there while the tip was spinning, at some point. One looks like a Campbell's soup can. For a variety of reasons I have already discussed and which should be obvious to anyone who has one of these tips, these marks were put in the iron layer before the chrome was plated on. They were not put in the copper... you are correct that machining copper would be needlessly expensive when it could be swaged in a press.QuoteThis is all highly automated. If you are curious how Hakko makes these tips, you might be interested to read my actual response to OP's post #14 rather than Tooki's misinterpretation.I don't know whether this is good or bad to Ersa fanbois, but I would wager Ersa (and most other manufacturers') tips are made exactly the same way as Hakko tips. Hakko's patent should have expired in the 90's, and it's the obvious way to make a good soldering iron tip, if you know anything about soldering, machining, and manufacturing. Assuming you are using a common, good quality iron, the iron layer in your tip is probably a lot thicker than you think it is.I'm not holding my breath, but a "say thanks" would be appreciated.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 02:10:04 pm
content: *SMH* Dude. Your tips may have been sanded at some point. I guarantee it was NOT after plating. Sanding marks or any other mechanical defects will show right through plating, even if it's quite thick. And you are totally wrong about the thickness of the iron layer. Ersa tips are plated with a thickness of iron between 100 and 300 microns. That's .004" - .012" thick. That is considered quite thick for a soldering tip. Thickness depends on the tip type and geometry. It's purposely made thicker on certain tips with certain shapes as they are more prone to wear. Heat conductivity of iron is 500% worse than copper, which is why it's never used in a very thick layer. A file will remove more than .012" in one swipe. So can coarse sandpaper. Neophytes, do NOT do this to your modern plated tips. Even a pinhole in the iron layer if you use lead-free solder will lay waste to the tip very rapidly, as the copper will be dissolved by the free tin in the lead-free solder and leave you with a hollowed out tip that does not conduct heat worth a darn.Regarding knowing anything about soldering, machining and manufacturing, I'd lay a wager that I have way more experience than you do. I worked as a machinist, toolmaker, millwright, welder, estimator and owner of a machine shop for about 2 decades. What's your experience level? What about your age? At this point, your "firsthand experience" is worth naught in terms of value as a reference. Show us some actual reference material that backs up what you say (you mentioned a patent that describes everything you said) and I will be very surprised and even apologize. Until then, I feel like you're just blowing smoke.Here are some instead straight from Ersa regarding plating thickness. The regular tips are 100-300 microns, the tips specifically for lead-free can be "up to" 600 microns, or .024" thick iron plating. As Ian noted, if hit on a corner, even this can easily be removed with one swipe of a file or coarse sandpaper.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 02:14:07 pm
content: Also, for those actually interested in the facts, here are some straight from Hakko:https://www.hakkousa.com/lead-free/See also:https://www.google.com/amp/blog.okinternational.com/metcal/how-to-remove-oxidation-from-your-solder-tips%3Fhs_amp%3Dtrue?source=images

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 02:29:21 pm
content: Sandpaper that isn't on a rigid backing and any sort of flexible sheet or pad abrasive will always take more off the edges. Files and stones etc. are very difficult to keep perfectly flat to the surface so will tend to take more off one edge. *NEVER* use any of them on a plated bit unless its already FUBARed because it has pitted and you just need to dress it back to reasonably flat bare copper to keep it going for a day or so while your replacement bit order comes in.If a plated bit is suffering from severe dewetting failure (and you should never have let it get so bad to start with), beyond what a block of tip tinner cleaner can cope with, you may be able to save it by gently abrading the working surface with a fiberglass pencil while hot, and immediately using the tip tinner cleaner. OTOH you are at risk of going through the plating while chasing that last spot that doesn't wet, so its best to settle for 90% wetting + order a spare anyway, as any pinhole will lead to failure within a few days.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 02:41:10 pm
content: Another method that does not endanger the iron plating is simple mechanical scraping with a piece of steel like a flat screwdriver tip. Let the iron reach normal operating temperature and apply some solder (preferably flux-core) and gently scrape the tip with the screwdriver, in the process wiping the liquid solder around as well. The scraping will remove oxidation and then immediately wiping the liquid solder over the scraped area will re-wet the tip. This same method can be used to solder to metals considered very difficult to solder with electrical solder alloys (aluminum, steel, etc.).

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 05:44:32 pm
content: I had very bad experience with kitchen sponge. Even if soaked wet it was melting.... Imagine the iron tip. Never again.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 06:06:31 pm
content: Yes, as I explained back in reply #26, that's what happens if it isn't cellulose sponge. For identification, if it doesn't say on the packet, once you've washed the plasticiser out, cellulose sponge gets rock hard (and shrinks a bit) when fully dried out. Rubber and plastic sponges stay about the same softness regardless of whether they are dry or wet.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 06:45:31 pm
content: QuoteThe Ersa iron layer is 4 to 12 mil thick.... so? Do you know how long it would take to remove 4 mils of hard iron by hand, with say 1K+ grit sandpaper? Heck, try it with aluminum foil, which is less than 1 mil thick and quite soft. Stick it to glass with spray adhesive, and sand til you're through, without ripping it. Now imagine how dumb you would have to be to do even that much sanding to an iron... at least IF your goal is to just remove surface oxides. FWIW, 3-10+ mils is what I would estimate the thickness of the iron in a hakko clone tip, last I cut one in half.. quite a bit of variation, actually. Do you have any idea of how thick 10 mils is? Bandsaw blades are as thin as 20 mils. 10 mils is the thickness of the mouth of a common brass bullet case, just as a for instance. This 10 mil is thick enough to be structural material all by itself, not plated on anything. (Sometimes this is plated with nickel, lol.) You can sand a case until your arm falls off. Shoot it, reload it, and do it again. You can use a reamer/turning tool if you want to appreciably thin it in this lifetime, rather than just shine it up.Example more people here might be familiar with, pcb traces. 10 mil is amateur stuff. Turn that trace on its side. For that matter take an SSOP gullwing pin and turn that on its side. Hell, don't turn it on its side. Take a 1 oz copper pour board and sand the copper through. Tell us how easy that was. This is only 1.4 mils of pure, soft copper. Then try hand sanding through a soda can. That's 4 mils aluminum. If you don't have tendonitis yet, try 32 gauge sheet steel to get an idea of what you're really talking about.QuoteWhen using a surface grinder, you are taking tenths. With hand sanding you do that order or two of magnitude finer. For all the reasons I already posted, it is quite obvious the marks on my tips were made to the iron layer. I already answered this. Your tips might be different, of course.If you don't know how to do things, then Ian is right. NEVER use sandpaper. That is the only advice a company could ever give to the lowest common denominator. I forget how much like magic it is to one person what is ordinary and easily understood to other people. If you want to learn things beyond consumer level marketing wank made for the reading comprehension of the lowest common denominator, well, nevermind. Most people are quite happy with that.Wikipedia: "Hard chrome tends to be thicker than decorative chrome, with standard thicknesses in nonsalvage applications ranging from 0.02 to 0.04 mm (20 to 40 μm" This is a thin plating. The super thin platings that you will accidentally buff away with even fine compound on leather can be thinner than a hundredth of one mil.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 08:34:56 pm
content: Removing iron is not the only reason to avoid sanding. More important is that sandpaper transfers grit particles onto the surface and those can contaminate the solder or cause poor heat transfer.Soldering equipment companies actually sell and recommend "sanding" tools, so it certainly isn't the case that they think the tips cannot withstand abrasives:https://www.hakkousa.com/products/accessories/tip-cleaners/hakko-ft-700-tip-polisher.htmlhttps://www.hakkousa.com/products/accessories/tip-cleaners/hakko-ft-710-tip-cleaner.htmlThey use both brass and abrasive polymer polishing wheels. The use of a softer material than iron (brass) minimizes damage. Using steel screwdrivers for this is not a good idea.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 08:50:35 pm
content: It's important to remember that 1000 grit sandpaper is almost more like lapping compound. When most people hear "sandpaper" I suspect they think of something a lot more aggressive, like the sort of thing you'd use to sand varnish off a table.I've never had to use something so aggressive myself though, for ~30 years I've been using a moist sponge.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 09:21:40 pm
content: I have never had to either. I did it to my (brand new perfectly functional) clone tips because I was pretty sure I could. I wanted to satisfy my own curiosity and put my own understanding to the test. And Fwiw, it took 400 grit to get the deepest marks out in reasonable time. I have never yet had a Hakko tip fail for wetting. Chrome layer on a CF tip, OTOH, does wear thru where u drag it over pins.Other people want to share their knowledge of how to read consumer level directions they found with Google and claim these as "the real facts,", that is fine with me. But I don't put words in their mouths. It would be nice if they extended the same courtesy, but reading comprehension is not universal.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 02:27:33 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 15, 2018, 09:21:40 pm"The real facts" are that you earlier posted that it would be fine to do "quite a bit" of filing with a bastard file on a new iron plated tip. Now you've changed your tune to using only very fine abrasives. I'm guessing you're a young kid who just doesn't know what he doesn't know yet. You'll learn.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 03:15:19 am
content: QuoteI didn't change my tune. You never had any reading comprehension.If the file were all you had, and your iron didn't work, you could clean a Hakko* tip many times with that bastard file before you ruined the tip. In fact, it could potentially live a full life and die of other causes... the chrome flaking off or wearing through. Or the insert in the back falling out. I continue to stand by this point. What I actually said was:QuoteYou say:QuoteSure, if you want to kill the tip, you could file it like that with a nice sharp file. You could put the tip in a vice, put all your weight into it, and even dig in the corner of the file for good measure. With a good enough technique you could cut the tip right in half with one good stroke!!! If that's what you think the OP would do to clean microscopic surface rust after reading the comment, above, then I thank you for pointing out my mistake of assuming at least few IQ points of the OP. If you can't do sub 1 mil work with a file, I just don't know... Heck, if I had a file that automatically took 12 mil on every stroke, I might not need an angle grinder. But I sure as hell would need a finer file.QuoteWe all don't know what we don't know.But you're the guy that is refuting my statements based on marketing literature... of which you don't even have a grasp of the numbers you are arguing about. The fact you think it contradicts anything I said shows me what you don't know.That is your great contribution to the thread, and for that we all owe you a big thanks!By all means continue to twist my words. The posts are there if anyone cares to read them in context. Go 'head and cherry pick. String 'em up however you like. What I shared here, I know because I have BTDT, and I stand by everything I posted, here.*Ersa users, this has nothing to do with your iron of choice. I'm sure Ersa tips are exceptionally well made, and I bet they taste great, too. I hear they last ten years with heavy use.QuoteIf it would satisfy your curiosity, I could show you this is the case. Pics through a USB microscope of a new clone T12 tip showing the obvious and huge machine marks under the chrome and on the wettable area of the tip. Then another pic after filing the tip and through the chrome until the areas are covered in new files marks in a different direction. And a third pic after finish sanding totally smooth. And there will be no copper pinholes. Even you state the layer (on an Ersa tip) is 4-12 mils thick, and you, a professional machinist, find it hard to believe this could have been machined? First off, that would be what's left AFTER the machining. Second, to hell with the bastard file. I reckon I could resurface a 4 mil layer of iron with a die grinder and a carbide burr, completely freehand. Maybe more than once. This is why I call it the iron layer. Because 4-12 mils is really, really thick for something called a plating. Think about it. You read "plating" and make assumptions about what you can or can't do to it. You read 4-12 mil, and you have no grasp of that as a machinist? If anyone should want to backtrack, it is you, my friend. Just say the word, and I'll make you eat yours.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 07:49:26 am
content: Ok I'm done with this, kid. You're trying my patience. I'm tired of reading and responding to your disrespectful drivel. It is clear that you're a young pup and you have gone to great lengths to avoid admitting that and that your relevant experience level - though claimed to be extensive - is nil. I'm sure the other members who actually manage to read all of this will be able to easily make their own judgements on who is more trustworthy and who is backtracking like crazy. Again, DON'T use a file or coarse abrasive on plated soldering tips guys.One last thing though. Posting information from actual manufacturers (wow, one can find that kind of thing with Google? Who knew!?) is called a REFERENCE. People who aren't trying desperately to act like they know it all post REFERENCES to prove their assertions.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 08:43:18 am
content: QuoteI'm disappointed you can't admit a mistake.QuoteI admit I lack respect. It's my nature. I ask none from you, and if you want it from me you have to earn it.QuoteBecause you need relevant work experience and education to clean a soldering iron? You're the professional machinist of 20 years that can't machine something 4+ mils thick? What do you use your micrometer for? To send stuff back to the magic place that makes things to your customers specs?QuoteReading comprehension fail, again.QuoteI'm counting on it.QuoteYeah, because that is what I recommended all along?QuoteBecause if someone else said it, it must be true. That is hilarious. I have a good story about that... Ask Tooki.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:32:37 am
content: Yeah, uh huh, aaaaallll of us are wrong and totally misunderstood what you said? No, it’s more likely that you wrote stuff that’s nonsense, and you just don’t like being called out on it. And by “more likely”, I mean that that’s definitely what happened here.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 10:26:06 am
content: I'm sorry for my tone, but when I make a comment that is helpful to the OP, and then spend 3 posts explaining to you why I wasn't dissing Ersa, only for eKretz to pop in to say "Ersa Awesome; you idiot," why would I feel immediate respect to this guy who wants to be my pops and call me kiddo? Defenders of Ersa unite? I never said anything bad about Ersa to begin with.I'm sad to be part of the problem, here. I realize I am. And I may have talked halfway out of my ass about how hakko tips are made. I could definitely be wrong on that. I searched some patents and only found recent Hakko patents since 2004 and beyond. There are many that cover for instance sintered powder formation of the tip portion of the iron and and the silver soldering to the other components. But lots of other stuff, too. Not the smoking gun from my memory.More non-professional REFERENCE points:Since my only bastard file was decomissioned years ago due to being to fine and too dull, not cutting well at all, I used a coarse needle file. 900M tip chucked in a machine vice, and went at it with heavy strokes, full abandon mode, focused right at pointy tip of a fine conical (about 30 degree angle over the very tip). It took 14 strokes to expose the copper. This is removing essentially 1/3 the diameter of the tip to hit paydirt, and very obviously putting a deformation/bevel to get there. On the back of the tip that goes over the heater, I did 50 strokes on the side of this 1/4" cylinder without finding copper, making a nice big flat spot.Then I just cut it apart coronal and longitudinal. The iron layer is ~8.5 mil thick all the way around. At the back, I was able to peel it off the copper partway to measure with high accuracy. At the tip, it looks about the same thickness, maybe a little thinner. My filing on the side of the back part was nearly all the way through, it turned out. The shell is hard. It is not very malleable. But it didn't crack or split. So I can't separate it all the way, yet, without perhaps cutting it into smaller slices.If this was consistent, then on a thicker tip, say the face or side of a big hoof, you could do a really good amount of filing.I feel dirty for having done this, but I get easily obsessed with being right. Unhealthy, yeah.eKretz can have all the PhD's and professional work experience in the world, but does that make it ok for him to twist someone else's post out of context so he can correct them? Even setting aside the fact that he is wrong, lol.So they just get uhhh electroplated with 8.5 mils of iron, and they come out of the bath perfect and smooth? Too thin to do any final machining or polishing, but I can put 50 file strokes on it?Additional info:The inside iron layer is different. And I got a piece to peel away, completely. The surface of the copper underneath is silvery all over. The outer layer at the very back looks to be quite a bit thicker than 8.5 mil, but it hasn't peeled. I'm going with 12 mils. Will try to work on it some more. Ahh, the inner part that peeled away is a steel-ish insert. Magnetic, but presumably something more conductive than steel. Then there is a much thinner iron plating on the inside of the barrel, maybe just a few mils, compared to 8 to 12 mils on the outside.There is almost no silver/iron over the ring at the very back of the tip. The thickness there is almost nil. Like it was cut, there, then plated only very thinly, maybe with just chrome.Yeah, so Tooku.QuoteYou would have some experience with that? I'm not the one that ran away. And I'm not talking about eKretz.I'm still here, even though the only 2 people that care are just trying to prove my manners are wrong.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 02:06:22 pm
content: Ok, I think I figured out the source of confusion: with regards to the crusty old hot nail looking thing, you referred to that as a “picture” posted by the OP. Except thatwasn’ta picture, it was a YouTube link which eevblog automatically embeds. The OP did, however, actually post a picture, and it was of the Ersa tip. So when you referred to the iron in the picture posted by the OP (and described it as junk), we all (reasonably) understood this to mean the only picture posted by the OP.I suggested that maybe you were confusing the picture and the video and you denied it, but a careful rereading of your posts confirms I was right.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 07:55:37 pm
content: Yes, i called it pic instead of link the first two times. I see now how confusing it was to call the linked video thumbnail a pic. That was a mistake; you are right that I made this mistake.QuoteYou suggested I confused the thumbnail with the OP's iron. And I indeed denied it, because I never confused it for his iron/Ersa. And in my mind, I differentiated between the two things in this post. If that wasn't clear enough to the reader from the get go, the next post might have helped.QuoteThat sentence is pretty bad in hindsight, lol. But the OP was clearly not confused. He knew which post I was replying to and quoting from. And he knew I was differentiating between the two things. He posted the vid to make a point; I refuted that point, suggesting some irons have a very thick iron layer; I am not certain where the Ersa fits in; but the one in "the pic" looks like the cheap kind with the costume jewelry thin iron plating. But not everyone else bothered to follow the thread or to backtrack to find the post I was refuting. I didn't post this random info out of the blue for no reason.In looking at the post in isolation, I see how confusing it could be. But if you read what followed rather than scanned for what you wanted to see, you would have gone the long way round to think I said a bad word against Ersa. eKtretz chose to take the long way round on not only that point, but everything else I posted; and in at least some instances he is curiously not even in the right ballpark for a machinist. He stretched my words to the extreme of how that could be taken badly, and I am still on my feet. But his own posts include indisputably incorrect statements that are even more ridiculous considering his resume boasting. This is why "I'm a disrespectful pup?" I owe an apology for not taking that crap lying down?He went out of his way for a fight. He came at me swinging and didn't pull any punches. What else should he expect when he throws wild and steps his chin into my glove, other than for me to return in kind?eKretz caught me spinning a tall tale. Speaking above my pay grade. He called me out. I would have accepted that. But instead of starting and stopping there, he attempted to disprove everything I said, including the parts that still hold true. It's him spinning the tales, now, and it's regarding something way more vital to the actual topic. A good pup let's that slide?

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:01:38 pm
content: Kl27x. The only files I have that are 'bastard' files are fairly aggressive things. I wouldn't go anywhere near my soldering iron with them.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:03:54 pm
content: Good to know, Gary.Mine was a Nicholson bought at an estate sale. But I think it was wore out or a modern junk one. The other smaller file I picked up turned out great.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 12:01:49 am
content: This is a stock clone T12 knife tip. If you can't tell from the pic, these tips are chrome plated everywhere except the actual bevels on the end. 1206 resistor for reference.()A better view of the tip, which has been wiped free of solder best I could.()These look like grinding marks to me.I don't know where is the tip I sanded smooth; I might have thrown it away when the chrome flaked off the sides. If you have a brain fart and start sanding on the chrome, you will see how thin that is. But I used it for several months and other than OCDing while not thinking and messing up the chrome, the tip was fine. I also sanded out the marks on the face of a 3mm bevel, which I still use. Sanding out these marks doesn't seem to affect the tinning/performance, though. So I wouldn't necessarily bother doing it for the shape/smoothness. But it gives an idea of how much wear/oxidation/cleaningl/life is in some irons.900M tip: This is 15 strokes of the file, tip chucked solidly in a vice, with intent to destroy it. After hitting the copper, I did one more to be sure it was copper. You can see that the shape of this tip would be dramatically changed by the time you would erode through the copper. This started out a conical tip, not a bevel.()This is the flat spot filed on the side, where the plating is pretty much 12 mils thick. I did 50ish strokes before breaking out the dremel. The 5" file I used is pictured. This is almost all the way through the 12 mils of iron plating. 50 sounds like a lot, but the first several strokes skated a bit, getting through the chrome. And this is a lot larger surface area than the tip.()A cheap firestick tip can have an iron (or maybe nickel) plating even thinner than the chrome on a hakko/ersa. But when you get into plating thicker than a mil, up to 4+ mils, I imagine there is going to be some machining/shaping to get the crisp points and edges, esp on knives and hoofs. (The Hakko chisels and screwdrivers I have are pretty rounded on the edges and more, uh, blob-shaped.) Not to mention those sharp points on the fine conicals and BR tips.Bonus, here's a can of my GF's soda sanded with the coarsest paper I have (not on a power tool), 120 grit. It's still unopened. ()

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 11:40:49 am
content: I'm stunned when I see where this thread went!To be honest I also got a bit confused about both KL27x and eKretz posts and opinions not by not understanding what each one was referring to but because their opinions were roughly opposite. I couldn't even realise at a first glance there was a confusion regarding the picture I accidentally posted and the video link. And that picture (thumbnail) was uploaded without me knowing. Only after I click "Send" or "post" or whatever the button says to actually post a post, I realised there was a thumbnail there! This happened because I tried to upload like 6 pictures at once, and then I got an error message from eevblog saying files were too large. So I cancelled the pictures upload but even so, there was that thumbnail that stubbornly was yet uploaded.Anyway, this thread got to a point there gone way beyond my knowledge levels and needs but I still appreciate because I knowledge that there is quite some advanced technology even in soldering iron tips. I never thought about all those different layers and that makes me tend to agree to not use any sandpapers or heavily abrasive products to try to fix/clean/maintain my soldering iron tips. If we take good care, progressively, of our tips, they wont need much of cleaning or maintenance, so I hope!With this said, I'll avoid at all costs to have to do any cleaning/fixing procedures to my tip by taking good care of it over time. Tips are expensive and I cannot afford to just let the tip degrade and not do anything to avoid it!As some said, the wet/moist sponge is not that important and I do have one but it already have quite some visible residues of rosin and solder leftovers. The brass wool ball I have that came with my Ersa is still ok to use I guess. So, for now I'll just keep shaking the brass wool ball to keep it free of big solder bits and use it more often than the wet sponge!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 12:08:36 pm
content: QuoteIf you feel like, congrats.You're normal.I go off the rails, about twice a year.

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 10:47:56 pm
content: There must be a therapist somewhere who specializes in removing the 'engineer' component from one's personality, some here could sure use it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:53:56 am
content: It's important to keep. Without it, the world will stop working.It's fine when senior dude tells the junior engineer his trace angles are too acute, if that makes him feel more important. When he starts incorrectly fucking with things that matter, making blue red and red green out of ego, it starts a chain reaction and the world becomes stupider. Engineering failure are often due to politics, and not necessarily because of politicians.