Hakko FX-888D 230v vs ERSA i-CON Nano - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: capf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 11:01:11 pm
content: Hello everyone,I live in Europe and I want to buy a good soldering station that will last many years. I will use mainly for smartphone repairs (hobbyist).I searched for a while and I'm having some trouble deciding between the Hakko FX-888D and the ERSA i-CON Nano.I can buy the hakko from batterfly for ~140 € / 163$ (including shipping etc..) and the ERSA from Amazon.de for ~186€ / 216$I understant that both are great choices but in your opinion what would be the most reasonable choice ?Thank you

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 11:15:49 pm
content: Personally I would go with the Ersa i-Con Nano.The small i-Tool is great IMO. Feature wise both stations should give you a decent selection of soldering tips. Heat up time of the Ersa is significantly faster than the Hakko.Since the question has been asked before:Here is a threadto look at and you should find a lot of input via the search function.Right now the Nano is on discount at amazon.de for 170€ shipped.

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 11:58:43 pm
content: Another vote for the nano. Remember to check the price and availability of consumables - like bits.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 12:16:33 am
content: 888D is a joke compared to nano.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 01:29:39 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 27, 2017, 12:16:33 am+1The Ersa iCon Nano would kick the FX-888D to the curb.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 02:34:25 am
content: I think the Hakko FX-951 is more comparable to the ERSA, but probably more expensive...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 02:42:49 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 27, 2017, 02:34:25 amFWIW, Batterfly has theFX-951for 279EUR before VAT. Get the cart to 300EUR, and shipping is free (a few tips would take care of this).

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:43:14 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on October 27, 2017, 02:42:49 amAnd for roughly the same price as a FX-951 you can get a Ersa i-CON1https://www.ersa-shop.com/ersa-icon1-profil%C3%B6tstation-itool-150w-autostandby-p-2224.html

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 11:56:30 am
content: Quote from: Gromitt on October 27, 2017, 08:43:14 amNot sure how bad customs fees are (heard some stories), so figured best to stay between the two requested stations.That said, I'd opt for the I-Con 1 if it were me in this situation. The UI alone would be worth the extra money IMHO, and Ersa also offers tweezers for it if needed (FX-951 only works with 2 irons).

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 12:07:44 pm
content: Inside EEC there is no customs fees. The customs fees are only for products outside EEC country's.In Portugal for everything above 22€ declared value, you've to pay 23% VAT on top of the declared price + 10€ for opening the package, plus some other TAX depending on the product, can go from 0% to over 30%.But it pass many things over that value and without any problems.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 12:20:41 pm
content: Including VAT FX-951 would be EUR 340. Better to buy I-CON 1 for a little bit less if that's the choice. Also ersa have cheaper and more durable tips. Not that there is a lot of difference between nano and I-CON 1 if you don't use large tips, though. I-CON 1 have motion sensor inside the handpiece, so standby mode works really well, and higher power. Heater and tips are the same, however Nano powers heater from 16.5V, I-CON 1 from 24V.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 12:29:47 pm
content: BTW I would suggest to buy tip holder for each tip you use as it makes changing them much easier.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 01:11:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 27, 2017, 12:29:47 pm+1

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 06:03:13 pm
content: +1 for ERSA and you can buy directly fromERSA-SHOPBuy a tip holder for each tip as suggestedMyself i have the i-con 2V [i-tool + chip-tool] but nano is just as fine and i-tool is one of the best handpiece ever. About chip tool i think is not worth, i had problems on first months and got replaced, thermal and performance fell inferior compared to i-tool when solderingYou can also read this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/(tip)-best-budgetcheap-soldering-stations-and-tools/Nano on the list

author: capf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:47:43 pm
content: thank you everyone for your helpafter reading all the posts I think I will buy the i-CON nano. The Fx-951 and the ERSA I-CON 1 are very expensive, or should I say, they are over my budget. I don't know if the possibility of using the tweezers justify or not the price difference

author: Rolo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 05:59:43 pm
content: I followed this post in making a choice what soldering station I should buy. I have made a decision and this is on my desk today :A genuine Hakko, 230V AC model with europe mains plug (I live in The Netherlands). They are a bit more expensive here compared to the US, but I wanted an original. I hope this will serve me a few years. The iron feels very good, nice grip, light. Following Dave's advice on I bought three tips with it, all chissel shaped, 0,8 - 1,6 - 3,2 mm. There was a round, thin tip in the iron from the factory.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 01:40:16 am
content: Quote from: Rolo on November 02, 2017, 05:59:43 pmIt will.And with basic care (keep it tinned), tips can last 10+ years.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 07:30:22 am
content: Quote^This is ironic, because there are many recommendations in this specific post. And ALL of them recommend the Ersa. I think you made a good choice, though. Hakko have great tip selection and are made to last. You can't hardly break it, if you tried.I recommended to a friend (who already has several $200+ stations) to buy a 936 clone for a particular job, so he could use some specific Hakko tips, and when I incidentally used it, one day... lol. I noticed the handle got weirdly hot within just a few minutes of turning it on. So clones are not necessarily a good way to judge a Hakko 888. But for under 30.00, he can try some great tips shapes and buy the real thing, later, if he finds them useful.Ersa might have better stats. But IME, tip selection/shape, ergos, run-cost, and reliability are pretty important. As long as the station is powerful enough to do the biz, the warm up time means nothing to me. Prices depends a bit on the market. Ergos are kinda subjective. Tip selection depends a bit on what your doing and also somewhat subjective. Reliability? I don't think there's any question. You can't find a broken Hakko 888. I've poked around in mine, doing some stuff. And it survived some pretty bone-headed mistakes/shorts... as in making sparks. I'm genuinely surprised I didn't break it.If doing lead-free, I think the standby/sleep is an nice feature of the Ersa. But not necessary for most lead soldering. I leave mine on for hours at a time (while debugging/coding I might have it on for hours while making one or two joints) and have yet to buy a replacement tip in over 8 years. The "wake up" time is instant when you just leave it on, lol.

author: sainter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:06:04 am
content: +1 For Ersa i-con nano. I think i-con 1 is not worth the money (chirp tool only works with V model stations, that is i-con 1V and i-con 2V).+1 on buying a holder for all your tips. Because changing holders is not a quick job to do. It's a good thing the holders are cheap.Tip selection for ersa is excellent, and there is a fine selection of more exotic tips also.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:21:01 am
content: I wonder why the tip holder needs to be so tight? If you just sanded out it out so the tip dropped out easily, wouldn't it still work? Then you wouldn't need to buy a holder for every tip?As for tip selection, it is different. I don't see TFO tips. Maybe I just don't know how to find them. Hakko website makes it easy to see what's available. OTOH, Ersa makes some really huge chisels that you can't get for a Hakko. I suppose it depends on your needs.IMO, buy the tool for the job. Whichever one that does it more efficiently. (And the right tip is a large part of this, IME). All else equal, I tend to go with whatever costs less (in the long run). Ersa have a good reputation, for sure. But sometimes we see things as "upgrades" which don't really affect anything. 951 is only an upgrade over an 888, for instance, if it does something more efficiently for you. And IME, if you have ever found a tip that is magic for you, you wouldn't consider buying a soldering iron, period, until you have found the right tips for it. The other stats don't matter squat compared to that.

author: Rolo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:33:05 am
content: Yes, most votes were for the Ersa Nano, here are some arguments that made me choose the Hakko :- Combined sponge and brass curls in holder.- Price, I preffered to buy the whole package (with 3 tips) for about 150 euro.- All the reviews were positiveNot having the standby/sleep was an issue but I think I will not miss it, I only use leaded solder. And having a 30 seconds warm up time I can shut it off if not used for a longer time. I'm doing only hobby work.Also the preset can be used to emulate standby, have to experiment with that.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:35:48 am
content: Congrats to your new tool!Quote from: sainter on November 03, 2017, 08:06:04 am...unless you get lucky and can hunt down one of the first i-Con stations (without number) used and cheap, what is basically the 1V.I bought one a week ago from small ads for 110€ because of defective back light (fixing takes 10 minutes and less than 1€ in parts). It "only" came with the power tool, but I also found an i-Tool in excellent condition for 75€ - that is 185€ total and now I wonder how I could have been soldering with anything else in the past!The My-first-Sony look of the Hakkos always threw me of a little and I already knew the performance of i-Con Nano stations.However, Hakko and Ersa are pretty comparable performance wise IMO, plus the Hakko tips are widely available and much cheaper - particularly the »special« tips, such as horse shoe wells etc. Ersa charges at least three times more for these compared to the basic 102 series tips, where Hakko tips are almost all the same price (and even cheaper than the basic 102 and 832 tips).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:47:47 am
content: QuoteI have experimented with that, extensively, lol. My 888D is modified with 5 preset buttons, so I don't have to use the Hakko UI. I can change to a standby temp with the press of a button. After playing with that for a month, I no longer do it, like ever. Unless I have to up the temp to over maybe 340C, I don't care one bit about leaving it on. (Somewhere much north of about 350, maybe, the chrome plating on the tip will darken if you leave it on for 10 hours while you are asleep.)* Shut it off if not used for a longer time? No way; not til I'm done. I am not going to save the planet by using 6-7W less power.*I suppose it probably depends on the atmospheric conditions where you are, though. And maybe what kind of solder/flux you use.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 11:17:21 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 03, 2017, 08:21:01 amThere are with flat bottom and solder wave. Page 40, 41.http://www.microsolder.hu/letoltesek/ERSA%20m%C5%B1szaki%20adatlapok/Ersa_Werkzeugkatalog_eng_web_2017.pdf

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 11:35:11 am
content: QuoteHelp?How do you know which ones are TFO? I have looked at page 40 and 41, and I know they're not ALL TFO, because there are bent conicals, or I guess Ersa calls them "pencil points" on those pages.I wish manufacturers would show the line where the chrome plating stops. Hakko doesn't do this, either, but they at least list "tinned face only" in the description at the bottom of the tip mechanical drawing, and they use suffix "F" for the part number.Hakko describes what the part number actually means, quite clearly, such as:"Shape DThis type has a shape like a flat-blade screwdriver and is capable of soldering by applying the tip in 2 ways: line and face.The width (size of tip) suitable for the workpiece can be selected, and it can be used for any soldering work."D is chisel, basically. B is conical. C is "cut face" (bevel/hoof). CM is a modified cut-face (spoon/well), CF is a TFO hoof. BC would be hoof with a conical shaft/base. The number at the end is the diameter of a hoof or width of a chisel, in millimeters. I'm having hard time to figure out if Ersa part numbers have a rhyme or reason.Not to mention Hakko tip selector you can sort by the station? Wouldn't that be nice.Do they have a TFO chisel or knife tip? I kinda assume all knives are TFO, but maybe that's just how hakko does it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 12:41:26 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 03, 2017, 11:35:11 amThen explain what is TFO? Google does not know what TFO is, I thought you were talking about tips with one flat surface.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 12:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 03, 2017, 11:35:11 amTips I mentioned match with such description. They have only one tinned/working surface. 0102ADLFxx and 0102WDLFxx. PLCC blade is tinned from both sides.QuoteWhy anyone would make chisel tinned on one side?

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 01:04:35 pm
content: Although I can not answer the question about Ersa tips, here are my thoughts on TFO tips:There are certain applications, where it is necessary to have a lot of control over the molten solder. With regular fully tinned tips you will have tin forming a blob around the whole tip (if you use a lot of tin) or it will move to whichever part of the tip gives the best volume to surface tension ratio.Therefor horse shoe well type tips for drag soldering would ideally only have the flat "hoof side" tinned and the other surfaces to be repelling the tin. I could think of some scenarios where it would be nice to have the heat transfer capabilities of a chisel tip, but full control over the molten tin.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 04:36:23 pm
content: For better view of ERSA tips and specs please see this page:http://www.kurtzersa.com/electronics-production-equipment/soldering-tools-accessories/soldering-desoldering-tips/soldering-tip-series-102.htmlI don't know what is a TFO tip either, someone can explain?

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 06:30:43 pm
content: TFO == tinned face onlyMeaning: Only the working surface is tinned / holds soldering tin. All other surfaces repel the molten tin. The naming might be a Hakko thing though.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 07:36:05 pm
content: QuoteWell, all bevel tip have one "working" surface, I suppose, if you call the flat part the working part. But most bevel tips have tinnable surface that extends some length up the side of the shaft. A Hakko CF/BCF has no exposed iron on the sides. The chrome plating comes all the way down to the meet the face. The tinnable surface is only the oval surface of the cut face, in a single plane.QuoteNot on one side. I mean that the flat "chisel" faces are tinnable. But the rest of the tip is chrome plated. This is how hakko (at least in T12/15/18) knife tips are made, and this is one of the things which distinguishes it from their chisel tips, aside from the angles. In this case, I guess TFO might be short for tinned faceS only, lol.I have looked at actual pictures of some of the Ersa bevel/spoon tips for sale on Amazon or whatnot. I found one spoon tip which appears to have very short bit of tinnable shaft... nearly TFO, perhaps, but it is hard to tell from a tiny pic. The rest of the bevel tips I saw were just normal bevels. I thought if Ersa made any, maybe there was a way to tell which is not obvious to me? To reiterate, even Hakko doesn't show where the chrome plating ends in their mechanical drawings. It's a pretty significant detail to leave to the imagination, IMO.Seeing as how thin the chrome plating is, I wish more manufacturers would offer more tips with extended chrome platings. Using a fine grit stone file, one could create customized tinnable surfaces, quite easily. I have experimented with powdercoat, to cover parts of the tinnable iron surface, but that was a total fail. It would be a lot easier to remove bits of the chrome. I should like to buy and play with tips with even 100% chrome plating. Removing the chrome from a flat cut surface would take seconds, so why not try a single faced chisel, for a spell?I'm 100% sure this is how Hakko makes their CF and knife tips. Chrome it all, then finish grind the cut faces.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:22:53 pm
content: Quote from: frozenfrogz on November 03, 2017, 06:30:43 pmFWIW, I've always known these types of tips as TFO (tinned face only).I don't think all manufacturers offer them, but they're one of my absolute favorites (Weller LTCC & LTDD in my case).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 08:41:12 pm
content: Ersa has more than its share of unique tips. I'm sure there are Ersa users who have tips they can't do without.I didn't buy a Hakko for the tips shapes, because until that point I didn't really know anything about them. But once you find tips that do something special for you, you won't give them up for marginal differences on a spec sheet. You'll start to use multiple stations, if anything, lol.If you have ever used nothing but a Radio Shack firestick for several years, you might have experience making and shaping your own tips. Anyone using solid copper tips can give this a try: instead of reshaping and sanding/shining up the entire tip, just file one tiny spot on the tip through the oxidized coating. Tada, you have a TFO tip. And it is very useful for point to point soldering. File a larger spot up to 3mm or so, and you have a tip that is excellent for drag soldering as well as batch SMD soldering.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 12:35:50 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 03, 2017, 08:41:12 pmAdvantage of ersa i-tool in not just in spec. It's a much smaller tool size and much lower tip-to grip distance, especially compared to 888D, ergonomics, UI. Also construction of heater and tips make it perform as if those were cartridge tips. Hakko clone vs i-tool. Don't be fooled by it's size, it has 150W heating power.

author: Rolo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 08:26:09 am
content: First solder job with the Hakko. Used the 0,8 mm chissel tip, 0,5 mm solder and a flux pen. Temp at 350C. Works great, the iron has stable temperature, good grip. A pleasure to work with.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 08:35:16 pm
content: QuoteQuoteOne potential drawback of this is reach. Certain tips have to be held at a specific angle for specific operations. I have found, for instance, that with T12 iron, I can not get the same amount of reach when drag soldering an IC, using the equivalent tip type. Holding the iron farther back is perfectly comfortable for me, and the T12 handle is slightly longer, even. But the angle of the tip is slightly different. Even though the mechanical drawing of the tips show they are supposedly the same bevel angle, the T12 tip is in fact slightly blunter, which I suppose is necessary if you want to use the tip when choked up at the shortest possible tip-grip distance. Probably many on the forums do prototyping and repair more than anything else. So I grant this is a minor quibble for most and concede in general, the shorter the tip to grip, the better, for most. Me, I want the iron and tips to be designed for the the reach I'm comfortable with, and the 888 is just about perfect. Any shorter is just short-changing me. Esp if you solder under a microscope, it makes a difference. With the 888 I have normal grip, which is slightly shorter than my max reach. And I can extend that out a bit when needed. With the 951 style grip, I find I usually hold it back at about the same distance, anyway, at least as far back as I can still grip the foam part of the grip. Varying grip too much ends up wasting time finding the tip under the microscope. That said, Ersa looks more ergonomic to me than the 951.Quoteergonomics are subjective, to some degree. Also, clone handle is not the same ergos as an 888, IMO. The thin rubber overgrip is really not good.QuoteYes, indeed. Ersa response/warm-up is great. I don't think you need to compare it to cartridge tips. There are some "theoretical" advantages of cartridge tips which don't seem to be that big a deal when you look at what Ersa can do. (I don't personally realize any advantage of T12 clone over 888, either, though, lol; this is just the reality of what kind of soldering I do to this point in my life).QuoteI'm sure this is useful if you're using it. But if you don't have specific need, the bigger number isn't helping you solder.One big quirk for me is the retaining screw nut thing. It looks like it makes changing tips a pain, and this part eventually destroys itself. Or you buy one of these for every tip, adding another 5.00 and making organizing and selecting the right tip a big PITA due to this extra bulk on each tip. This is why I wondered, why don't Ersa user just ream out this part so it doesn't stick on the tip so tight.But mostly, I think having and using the right tip is priority 1. I'll use multiple stations if I need to, to use the right tip for the job.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 09:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 04, 2017, 08:35:16 pmIf you look how thick is hot part of 888D is compared with i-tool, it becomes obvious it cannot access tight spaces which i-tool can access easily.QuotePicture was for size comparison only as it's the same size as genuine one. i-tool is miles ahead of 888D in comfortability to hold it for prolonged times. UI of 888D and FX-951 wins prize of the worst soldering station UI ever. And amount of people who accidentally screwed up calibration confirms this brilliantly.QuoteIt's very different from 888. Ersa has thermocouple exposed directly on the and of the tip, less than one centimeter away from the end of the tip, and is tightly pressed against it. Also it's much tighter fit, there is virtually no gap between tip and heater.QuoteTip holder costs around EUR 3, and I have individual tip holder for each of the tips. Even with replacing tip holder it is around the same effort as changing tip on 888D and is much easier if you have individual tip holder for each tip. Also this can be done while tip is still hoot.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 09:29:12 pm
content: ^sorry, I actually went back and amended my post about cartridge vs ersa. In fact, it just threw me off that you compare it to cartridge. To me, Ersa obviously works great at getting heat into the tip, quickly, and it stands on its own.Reach:I'm talking not reaching into tight spaces. I'm talking about spanning larger area of board, doing SMD assembly of a pcb. A little bit of reach can mean the difference in doing something in one go or having to break it up in two goes.As for the retaining thing, I suppose you maybe use only a few different tips. I don't see how you are going to conveniently put 10-20 different tips on your bench at your fingertips with the big plastic doohickey on the back of each one. And I don't see the reason why you would even need to. Seems to me, you could just easily slide the tip out of the collar, like on an 888, if only the inside of the retaining collar wasn't so tight.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 09:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 04, 2017, 09:29:12 pmI have more than 10 tips. Even with holders they are still very small. Much smaller than T12 cartridge.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 10:02:20 pm
content: QuoteBut do you just store them in a tray, loose? Or you do use a holder that stores them tip down, and you know them by color/position?I agree the T12 tips are a bit of a pain. I don't have "first order" access to them, yet, and I don't think I want to give up the space for that. I mostly pull my T12 clone off the shelf when I want a second station where I might switch between two tips for a specific board assembly. The major advantage of it is that it's a tiny, self-contained holder/station with footprint similar to my 888 iron holder. But the tips, not so.T18 tips are great because I can keep all my tips at hand in a tiny organizer. They go tip up, so I can see them. And each has a designated space. I imagine that's how I'd do it with Ersa tips, if I could ditch the collar-for-each thing. I don't see how saving a few seconds removing and replacing the collar is worth digging through a box to find the right tip.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 10:20:21 pm
content: You can store up to 6 of them on the stand. Although only 4 tip holder tubes come with stand, need additional 2 tubes to populate all available holes. I have I-CON 2 with 2 stands/irons on my desk. I'm thinking to 3d print separate tip holder as there were a few occasions I tripped the stand off my desk together with all of the tips.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 10:48:03 pm
content: I'm very dense, I guess. I watched video of a guy showing why you need a collar for each tip. Because the collar is not easy to remove.If you sacrificed 3.00 on one of your collars to sand out the inside of the hole, maybe you wouldn't need this much space to store your tips?To look at it in reverse, this would be like taking the retaining tube and collar on an 888 and gluing it to the tip, and buying one for every tip. I don't see the advantage to that being big enough to overcome the bulk.As usual I'm probably just overthinking things.Having 4 tips avail on the stand is probably enough for most people. Like having the 6 tip silicone holder* might work for some peeps on the T12 stations. I would be playing round robin with that, and spending more time finding tips.*Also the silicone holder for T12 is radially symmetrical, which means you don't have a set location for each tip. Which means more time looking at the potentially tiny tips or reading tiny labels. Organizer for things which looks almost exactly the same except or a tiny part at the tip should have a definite front and a back, lol.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 11:07:36 pm
content: It's useless to increase the hole size. It does not matter and there is no margin to do this, the only thing that prevents holder from falling off the tip is that it's bent tighter few mm lower than hole. Also it might bea little bitdifficult to remove the tip only if holder is completely new, it becomes easier after tip is removed a few times. Anyway, even with new holder, for me it takes half a second to remove. If someone cannot do this easily, that means hands are growing from the ass. As I said, it's just less hassle and I can change tips while they are still hot.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 11:30:30 pm
content: Wow, did you just make that pic? Thanks for the time, either way. I guess it's not that difficult, then.Funny, I just search to find this vid. Some dude banging the tip against his bench to get the collar off. And he has another video of showing how you can repair the collar once it is all bent up, lol.The funny part was the cover pic of the first two vids that show someone holding an Ersa iron, they are holding it halfway up the handle Which I take to show how short tip to grip thing is perhaps overrated for some of us.Curiously, when I watch Big Clive videos, sometimes he holds the 936 iron way back at the end for seemingly no reason other than he prefers to.This all proves beyond a doubt I watch too many soldering videos.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 11:41:29 pm
content: I just added arrow to the pic I found on google.QuoteAll you need is holding tip in one hand, holder in another. Push tip inside a holder, give it a tiny bit of rotation if it is tight.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 11:46:42 pm
content: There is one Russian saying: "Give a glass penis to the fool. He will both shatter the penis and cut his hands"

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 11:54:30 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 04, 2017, 11:30:30 pmMaybe got used to work with bulky iron. Short tip to grip allows to do precision job much easier, especially if your hands are not very steady. For through hole parts with big pads and pin pitch not so important but very useful for SMT and tight through hole. Also much easier to work under microscope which I do in most cases.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:22:24 pm
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on October 27, 2017, 06:03:13 pm+1 on the Ersa (I have the nano, but kinda wish I'd bought the i-CON 1 instead, for the better user interface). Works magnificently.+1 on getting individual collars for each tip. They're a f••king pain in the ass to separate from the tips. Getting one per tip makes tip swaps trivially easy.Note that ersa-shop.com is not Ersa itself. It's Bräunlich GmbH, a reseller. That said, I've bought from them before and have no complaints. Just an FYI so you know it's not factory direct.Quote from: wraper on November 04, 2017, 10:20:21 pmSo I finally figured out why there are 6 holes in the rubber stand, but only 4 tubes: to make it work with other (unreleased) tools. Or rather, unreleased until very recently. They just came out with the0109IN2-UKIT nitrogen accessoryfor the i-Tool and i-Tool nano, and it uses the front two holes to hold a metal holder for the N2-equipped iron. (In fact, according to Bräunlich, the only reason it doesn't work with the identically shaped i-Tool pico is because the pico stand can't hold it, and that the solution is to buy the "big" i-Tool stand.)Quote from: wraper on November 04, 2017, 11:41:29 pmI'm trying to figure out if you're being sarcastic or not. The tips are rather hard to get in and out of the collars, and impossible to do while hot.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:33:04 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 06, 2017, 08:22:24 pmIt's not difficult for me at all. And I already wrote that I have tip holder for each tip for convenience and to be able to change tips while hot. I thought to make a video showing how to remove them, but I'm too lazy to do this.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 09:15:53 pm
content: QuoteI was wondering if heat expansion had something to do with it.Having never touched an Ersa before, here's the vid I got my impression from:https://youtu.be/4F57a-cO858?t=156(He's got the weird accent and overenthusiasm to be the next Dave? lol)It looks like there's some surface corrosion on the chrome plating of the tip. I suppose after some use at high temp, a close friction fit can seize up pretty bad, due to the surface corrosion?I used a Velleman clone, which the tips were snug/friction fit with the heater, for many years. If you didn't change the tip for many months of use, it would threaten to seize to the heater. After freeing it with pliers, little bits of dark powder would fall out, which I suppose is from corrosion of the metal surfaces. IIRC, the instruction manual made some sort of mention of cleaning it, occasionally.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 09:24:13 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 06, 2017, 09:15:53 pmWhy would you bang it against the desk. Just calmly take it with both hands and push the tip inside. As I recall, there was only one time when I had a little bit of trouble to remove the tip. IIRC I bought some special tip, probably solder wave, and tip holder. Instead of usual 0.5 seconds it took me maybe 10-20 seconds to remove. Second time it became more loose and easy to remove.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 10:04:58 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 06, 2017, 09:15:53 pmAs plausible as that theory is, back when I ordered a couple of new tips and collars, I found the fit to be just as tight on brand-new, never-heated tips. It's just a damned tight fit.(As an aside, very early versions of the i-Tool nano used a spring instead of the metal collar:image 1,image 2. No idea why they changed it.)Quote from: KL27x on November 06, 2017, 09:15:53 pmMy experience is much like his. Though I'm sure wraper is right that they'd loosen up over time.I've been puzzled by that guy's accent for a while. It sounds for all the world like anextremelystrong German accent, yet he's Slovak. Makes good videos, though!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 10:18:54 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 06, 2017, 10:04:58 pmIt was ever present only on i-tool pico. It never came with nano or full fledged i-tool which appeared much earlier than nano and then pico.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 10:20:50 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 06, 2017, 10:18:54 pmI've only found images of it on the nano — I posted two images of that above. I have not found it on any pico or "full" i-Tool. (I've edited my post to specify the nano.)See e.g.https://youtu.be/jdHeJn2fl00?t=48s(ignore the crazy audio)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 10:48:22 pm
content: Here you go.https://youtu.be/Tynu71k13lk

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 10:52:53 pm
content: ^The snapping sound when inserting a tip into the collar/retainer is a new one on me, but it certainly seems to get the job done.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 11:07:10 pm
content: BTW if you don't want to spend a lot of money on tip holders but want to change tips while hot, all you need is one spare tip holder. Just put it on the tip you want to use. Change the tip. Let hot tip to cool down and remove the holder.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 11:09:38 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 06, 2017, 10:20:50 pmDunno, maybe it came with early nano, not pico.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 12:51:02 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 04, 2017, 10:20:21 pmNice to see recommendations of mytip holderI can tell that is very usefull, at least for my workflow.The ERSA stand holder have few slots and is harder to reach, but will do the workI do also high recommend tip holder for each tip, they are expensive if you buy lot of tips but look cheap if you buy few. Still ersa tips + holder don't reach cartridge price from other brands like JBC.I have more than 20 tips and each one have the holder, i also got 2 green and 2 black in stock, just in case...wraper, your video looks so easy to change the holders maybe the holders got lose overtime with usage? I only have changed my holders one time to change the color per tip, and i can say that i have a bad time. I didn't bang the tip on table or use tools, i just push it down like you but dam they are very tight, is like pull a strong magnet from another. And i also had used and new tips/holders, the difficulty was the same. But inserting is much easier, i used the copper bars to push them and fit right.Anyway do yourself a favor and buy the holders, tips deserve a proper care!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:02:30 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on November 07, 2017, 12:51:02 amI barely ever remove the tips, so there is no way all of them could wear out. Also I had 2 new tips inserted into new tip holders among those.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:15:07 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 07, 2017, 01:02:30 amStrange, maybe different batch? When do you order that holders?The holders i have each one require different force, they are not equal but i renember that i had to use a pliers to remove one tip once.And beside that most of the tips i get out of holder, the metal part come out attached to tip and the nylon part stay alone, but no problem because the holder is all about snap fit.I do try to remove one just now and same happen, tip come out with the metal thing attached

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:41:13 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on November 07, 2017, 01:15:07 amThere is around 8 years between oldest and newest among those. There are at least 5 batches I think, black and green. If you forcibly removed the tips before, metal part might be bent to lower diameter (as you pushed it through the plastic part) thus not allowing tip to be removed but becoming loose in the plastic at the same time. Do you try to rotate tip a bit is it does not come through? Also you could try to hold holder not at the plastic part but at metal part? As when you push metal part into the plastic, it gets contracted inwards thus possibly preventing tip removal.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:51:59 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 06, 2017, 11:09:38 pm"Maybe" in the sense that I've provided multiple pieces of evidence to support it. It's not that hard to say "oh, it seems you're right!"Quote from: wraper on November 06, 2017, 10:48:22 pmWow, that terrible attitude was uncalled for.You could have made the same video without the condescending comments. You've got multiple people here saying it's harder than that, and at least one youtuber saying the same thing. Whatever the reason, your tips separate easily, and ours don't. It doesn't make us crazies or crybabies, as your comments insinuate.Quote from: sn4k3 on November 07, 2017, 01:15:07 amMine vary in force needed, too. Indeed, sometimes the metal collar comes out together with the tip, leaving the plastic nut behind.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:07:19 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 07, 2017, 01:51:59 amWhere did I say in the video anything insulting? If you indeed managed to hear something insulting, then you should be intentionally searching for offence where is none, to feel offended. If you cannot do something easily, but someone else shows it can be done, that someone should be linched in your opinion?QuoteYes new tips / holders may be difficult to remove. And I expierienced this once as I wrote before. But that wasn't unremovable and just took a bit more effort. I think the main reason is how I remove them. Also there were new tips/holders and you should heard clicking sound during the video, so at least part of them were not loose at all.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:14:18 am
content: Also I've done a bit experimenting right now. And the most important thing is pushing them in exactly straight angle. If angle isn't exactly straight, removing becomes much more difficult. Holding metal part and not plastic, makes removal easier as well.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:17:42 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 07, 2017, 02:07:19 amYour exasperated tone of voice while saying that "some guys" "claimed" it was hard, and then closing with "Not so difficult, it seems". That last bit is what really says you think we are lying or crybabies or something.What if it's not us, but that our tips actually are harder to remove than yours?You could very well have said at the end "mine aren't that hard. how are yours?" instead of making it sound like "Hah, look at you whiny fools, I proved you wrong" (which isn't even true).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:22:47 am
content: QuoteMaybe your attitude sucks much more than mine. Maybe means "I'm not sure if I remember this correctly". You provided some picture where both tools are present. This is not 100% evidence that this particular tool always came with particular tip holder, you could also freely change them. I any case I did not consider it important to investigate and wrote what I wrote. EDIT: and I did not watch that video with nano until now.QuotePlease find a safe space. English is not even my second language, so even if it sounded like something insulting, it wasn't intentional.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:31:39 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 07, 2017, 02:17:42 amI already wrote there were at least 5 batches of tip holders and very different tips, including completely new and unused. Not all of my tips and tip holders were shown in the video.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:42:07 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 07, 2017, 02:31:39 amNone of which proves that our tipsaren'thard to remove. Mine are nowhere near as loose as yours.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:03:56 am
content: ^Could be matter of finger strength and coordination? These traits vary immensely between individuals. Personally, I have crazy fast twitch strength and high mechanical leverage in my hands and arms. I would have been a great Neanderthal. But I would have been run out of town by the Homo Sapiens running around with their limber wrists and superior spear throwing ability.Anyhow, I thought it was pretty cool Wraper took the time to make a video. And wow, Wraper, with that accent you could be a Youtube sensation. And you already have a hook."Not so difficult, it seems!"I watched Glow a few months, ago. Maybe I'm going overboard, but I think you could add "you fat, lazy Westerners!" Maybe just for us?The accent is so cool, I watched it 3 times.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:06:25 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 07, 2017, 02:42:07 amFrankly, if you think your tips/holders are exceptionally tight compared to all I ever bought, good on you. The only point of video was to show it can be done easy, not to disprove it cannot be done the hard way.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 05:30:17 am
content: what tha...wraper is only trying to help, and made a video just to show you, tone, voice don't mean insult, have you ever think he can be tired, ie. many hours awake?If all people was like wraper the world would be more friendly and helpfullApart from that i try to rotate like you did, remove strait, grab only the metal, none of that help, mine are very very tight. The way i can remove is put the holder into a plane surface and push tip down very hard i barely have force to remove it and my fingers get all marked and red.In the end i don't care since i use one holder per tip and i don't want to damage a holder or tip by this.If buy the holder is a sacrife people can buy large tips (>6.5mm) where holder already part of the tip and included, problem solved

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:34:58 am
content: So....If we could take for granted that SOME non-neanderthalically-jointed people with their dainty uncalloused fingers cannot necessarily EASILY remove this doohickey because of grip or lack of coordination or ability to rotate the parts while pushing...(or because their parts were made on a Friday)......I think there could be an advantage to what I was saying before. If you could loosen up the crimp, perhaps with over-excited German dude's "use alargescrewdriver" trick. (Which is like damn, that guy has all kinds of strange calipers and he can't just stop for 2 seconds to tell us the diameter of his screwdriver... or, like, the actual ID or OD of this cursed metal doohickey?)Yeah, you can keep an extra and wait for the tip to cool, but then you have to mess with the thing twice for every tip change. That's like putting the old CD into the case of the new CD and then sorting it out later. Instead of just putting the CD back into the rack where it belongs, off the bat.My-fan-boi-2-cents: I keep needlenose pliers on my bench, anyhows, so I do hot swaps on my 888, all the time. I actually prefer tip changes on my 888 over my T12 clones.... because I got the 20 tips right in front of me, all in order. In about 2 cubic inches of space. (And no, it don't fall off my bench, because it's part of a larger soldering instrument/accessory organizer.)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:28:40 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 07, 2017, 03:03:56 amNow i'm curious. Like what my accent sounds to native English person? All that was unscripted, and I barely ever have a chance to talk in English.Quote from: sn4k3 on November 07, 2017, 05:30:17 amVideo was taken on midnight. And I unconsciously sigh all day long, sometimes it drives people nuts.QuoteI have to admit that my fingers are certainly stronger than average. Dunno, for me it never was a problem to remove i-tool tips.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 07, 2017, 03:06:25 amYou seem 10000% convinced that it’s user error. I am telling you, it’s not. I’m using the same fundamental technique as you (pressing with a little twist while holding the metal collar). (Just making sure that you realize that in English, “doing something the hard way” means doing something in an unnecessarily difficult fashion due to stubbornness. I promise you 10000% that I’m not being stubborn, my tips are!)I really am baffled as to why you are so absolutely convinced that I am wrong, when it’s not even a zero-sum game: it’s 100% possible for you to be right (as in, yours come off easily) and me to be right at the same time (mine come off hard).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on November 07, 2017, 05:30:17 amI never said that I didn’t know how to remove them. I (and many others) said they’re difficult to remove. He wasn’t trying to be helpful, he was trying to prove us wrong, as he continues to do.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 09:17:13 pm
content: QuoteSpeaking for myself, a classic, heavy Russian accent with the deep timbre and the faint sneer of pride/sarcasm/wit which is pretty much spot on the voice I imagine when reading Russian jokes. The sigh of resignation at the end is perfect. Of course, a large part of my experience is based on Boris and Natasha, James Bond movies, and Glow.I wish I could borrow your voice for making videos. I have a voice only my mother could love.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:22:01 am
content: Hi, sorry, I understand that this is an old topic, I read the whole discussion and it is very interesting, it is indisputable that in terms of performance the i-CON NANO is clearly superior to the hakko fx-888d, but the fx-888d has the reputation of being a real tank, as I read in this discussion it is difficult to find a broken one, in your opinion does the i con nano mk2 have the same build quality as the hakko fx-888dx ? it is difficult to predict the future but between the hakko and the nano which will have a longer life ? I have the impression that the nano is more delicate, perhaps because it has more sophisticated electronics, some have had problems with some error messages, Err 501, Err 8 etc..

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 07:16:43 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 14, 2024, 06:22:01 amI've had my 888D for almost 10 years. It keeps going and going and going. I should put a pair of rabbit ears on it.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 02:54:28 am
content: Quote from: cosmicray on November 30, 2024, 07:16:43 pmI've had the Ersa i-CON NANO MK2 for about two days, I hope it will last me many years too, I really like the FX-888DX, especially because it's a very robust station, it was one of my main choices, I've had it in my cart for a long time.