Electronic Keyless Doorlocks - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2014, 11:08:49 pm
content: Hi. It would be interesting if people shared their experiences, if any, regarding Bluetooth or fingerprint electronic door locks. Has anyone tried one? Are they reliable? Is the technology too primitive?I am building a large garage with 3 side doors, double panelled metal for long life and burglar proof. I hate keys. The locks will be subject to the weather. The options I see are:1. Buy 3 x very expensive fingerprint door locks.2. Design my own Bluetooth based doorlock that works by mobile phone proximity.3. Buy something like 3 x very expensive Kevo smart locks. These might not work inside metal doors.4. A keypad. RFID does not seem good as you need "keys".Not sure which way to go. I have programmed Bluegiga modules before and do embedded programming, so maybe DIY is an attractive solution.Any help in guiding my decision would be appreciated!

author: lgbeno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 12:22:56 am
content: Damn those locks are expensive! Maybe go old school for a little while longer until competition comes and cuts the price by 4x

author: lgbeno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 12:23:44 am
content: What about the automatic garage for opener, that could be hacked pretty easy the be opened via smart phone

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 12:53:09 am
content: Heavy duty electric strikes seem to be in the 200-300$ range too ... although I think you'll get more structural integrity for your money.How would you protect the circuits with an all electronic solution BTW? Seems a shame to have to take a torch to an expensive metal door because of a lightning strike.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 01:54:44 am
content: Quote from: Marco on December 23, 2014, 12:53:09 amThanks for the responses. The garage will have a front industrial garage door as a backup that is independent except for the mains. The commercial door locks have batteries and they warn you before they die and have a fail safe entry method.Maybe the prices will drop a lot over the next year but the Australian dollar is also dropping, making imports more expensive.

author: mb300sd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 09:12:11 am
content: If you're trying to design your own, I've successfully programmed a STM32 to simulate the keypad onthese(picked up 3 for $30 each on black friday).Spent some time probing with a logic analyzer and designed a PCB with a switch to disconnect the keypad and inject my signal into it to unlock remotely. Also have code to read what is being typed into the keypad, and do stuff like open the garage door or turn on the light with special PINs.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 10:19:56 am
content: I'm very happy with my solution - a Sumsung Ezon SHS-2320 lock which has a keypad and NFC. It wasn't too expensive and is nicely made.The keypad is for my wife and the NFC for the NFC tag implanted in my hand. There's no way I'll lose that key.http://0xfred.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/my-nfc-implant/I intend do do some more with this and make my own door entry system for the front door of the house, but this was a nice easy start.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 10:25:44 am
content: To VK3DRBUnfortunately now that cordless angle grinders are being readily sold to the general public, making premises burglar proof for us lot has suddenly become a bit more tricky.They really should be licensed, all a bit late now, horse has bolted.Keep your system simple.Split Door Controller's with remote relay or tamper proof Stand Alone Keypads. Use PIN Codes, also use locks with key override Lockwood 001's will do. Door Strikes and a good battery backed up Power Supply is a must.Also, if you have a decently branded existing security system then it could be expanded to incorporate the access control stuff as well, most do, some don't.Muttley

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 02:26:46 pm
content: Cordless angle grinder, defeat using thicker steel, or use stainless steel instead, and change to cast malleable iron for things like locks. If you want to make a steel door angle grinder proof simply place a layer of loosely held ceramic tiles behind the steel, with a polystyrene sheet holding it in place, as the grinder penetrates it shatters the disc on the tiles as they tilt.Otherwise hollow bar guards with a cable threaded through such that if it is cut the alarm activates. You simply use a multicore cable and arrange with active, dummy and grounded cores so that cutting or shorting them triggers the alarm.As to the door, I would not use anything RF, as those have issues, but using something like a keypad with the controller inside, or a RFID tag and concealed reader and a decent lock to hold the door ( Fail secure 600kg maglocks top and bottom of the door work well, and if you are worried use fail open ones and have a battery capable of running it for at least a week in case power is cut) shut, along with a roof that will withstand attempts to penetrate.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 03:16:03 pm
content: Samsung Ezon user here too. works like a champ. Deadbolt style strike. keypad and rfid.codes not limited to 4 digits. you can have 10 or more digits if you want.three clever things about these locks :1) they show tow random numbers before you type in the code , you need to press those ( order doesn't matter) , this to level wear and fingerprints on the keypad so people can't 'lift' the area's you touched2) external power tabs. in case of complete power failure : a 9 volts battery held against that tabs will poer the lock so you can enter the key or rfid and open the door3) NO mechanical key. which is the reason i bought these. goodbye 'bump' keys ...

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 04:31:58 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on December 23, 2014, 10:19:56 amCan't shield it either though. Couldn't a thief just clone your tag with a high gain antenna?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 04:56:30 pm
content: Or they could just take an angle grinder to your arm...just saying.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 05:00:38 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on December 23, 2014, 04:31:58 pmThe best read range I have managed to get so far is 5mm, so I'd say no. More likely that they'd be able to use a long lens to photograph you using a physical key and manage to see the profile on it. Or video you entering a PIN.In theory it can be spoofed as the lock just reads the card ID. However, I'd say it's secure enough for the application - especially as there's a large pane of glass in the door.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 06:37:49 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on December 23, 2014, 05:00:38 pmI don't see why the RFID Thief from Black Hat 2013 couldn't be adopted to NFC type 2 tags, worked up to 3 feet.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 07:59:04 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on December 23, 2014, 06:37:49 pmRange depends on a lot of things, like frequency, tag size, etc. The tiny implanted tags are very hard to read unless very close. If there's a reader that can do that sort if range then I'd be very interested.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 08:42:28 pm
content: They used the same frequency as NFC tags use ... it basically comes down to using a bigger loop and more power.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 08:45:54 pm
content: How secure are the electric lock cylinders these days?A few years back there was a report here in Germany, that most comercial available ones could be opened with a well placed magnet.

author: 22swg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2014, 09:30:30 pm
content: I installed a RFID door lock system with tokens , valid tokens have to be programmed into the reader, and are also given an ID (1 to 2000 ) , so lost / stolen tokens can be barred , also featured a key pad option , so token and/or number could be required for entry , operating distance is < 5mm . works well .(AAProx)

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2014, 02:26:27 am
content: I did try the thumb print locks 6 years ago, they where worthless as in you had to have your tongue at the right angle to open the door.Replaced it with a keypad one.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2014, 12:10:52 pm
content: Quote from: XynxNet on December 23, 2014, 08:45:54 pmYes, that's right especially for the cheapest systems.I use a Winkhaus blueMatic EAV3 motorized lock systemfor the main door and I would say this thing is secure,because from the outside there is no accessible cylinder lock,so you can't open the door with a key from the outside.Which means if the thing is closed and the voltage sourcedid not work, the easyest way to open the door is touse a circular saw and cut out the whole door panel.But this kind of lock system is not the cheapest,you can count around 1200 Euro for the lock onlyand another 400 Euro for the required electronicand the UPS System (without the fingerprint or RFID readers).