Rohde & Schwarz 4.0GHz Portable Spectrum Rider FPH Review, Teardown & Experiment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 03:19:58 am
content: In this episode Shahriar reviews the Rohde & Schwarz 4.0GHz Spectrum Rider FPH. The new design of the FPH series is aimed for ease of use in outdoor situations as well as offering several software features for data collection, analysis and debugging of standard wireless communication protocols. The review is organized as follows:1:10 – Model comparison of R&S portable spectrum analyzers.5:44 – Instrument hardware overview and GUI characteristics.22:24 – Using the FPH Spectrum Rider to analyze unknown wireless signals including a multi-tone, QPSK modulated signal, AM/FM demodulation analysis and frequency hopping.46:46 – FPH teardown and analysis.55:33 – Overview of the Instrument View remote connection software.57:42 – Concluding remarks.You can watch it here: [1 Hour]youtu.be/H-NllJqNAFQThe Signal Pathwww.TheSignalPath.comwww.YouTube.com/TheSignalPathwww.Patreon.com/TheSignalPath

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 03:30:25 am
content: I watched this video earlier from my hotel room. Nice!I think it was pretty clear that the markers were always jumping to whatever the software considered a local maximum. I wonder how that works/if it continues to work when you are looking for local (or global) minimums.Also, there is some considerable noise picked up from (I think) your new microphone. It almost sounds as though it would be possible to automatically remove it from the video.Keep up the great work!-tg

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 11:44:50 pm
content: Wow, Pooch has the best equipment. I don't let my cat play with my spectrum analyzer.

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 02:49:37 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on March 27, 2017, 11:44:50 pmHe is out of control!

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 03:01:23 am
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on March 28, 2017, 02:49:37 amMy cat use to like to watch, she got the message that sitting on a shelf was more preferable to being in the way of what I was working on

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 03:07:55 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on March 28, 2017, 03:01:23 amWell, he does have some favorite spots... I have to say he prefers Keysight for some reason.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 03:11:01 am
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on March 28, 2017, 03:07:55 amHe has good taste.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 05:19:44 am
content: holy spectrum analyzer that thing is BIG. didn't look like in photo

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 03:55:55 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on March 28, 2017, 05:19:44 amThat's what she ...I'll get my coat.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 04:37:06 pm
content: There were several issues with the operation and display of that analyser than looked odd to me, especially on narrow RBW settings. Almost like the instrument isn't fully developed yet. Some of the technical commentary was strange in places as well. Not sure the test methods/conclusions were correct in places. Also, several obvious issues/problems were ignored in the review. I think this was a very kind (almost like a marketing?) review of a product that was clearly showing a few rough edges. However, it was great to see the insides of the analyser during the teardown but why no closeups of the RF sections?Maybe I'll get to see one of these at work soon. We do use portable analysers on field trials and there are several human factors that are useful to know about when playing with portable equipment like this. How quickly does it charge the battery? How long does it last on the battery? How does the display perform in sunlight or on a very cold day? (stick it in a cold fridge to test this). How easy is it to hold and operate when wearing gloves? How well does the tilt stand work? How fast can it sweep on a very narrow span? Can it cope with a local strong signal/blocker and still display a small signal? How good is it at letting the operator know if there is overload or uncalibrated settings?The tone in the mystery/puzzle question at 29:50 is probably the suppressed carrier from the IQ modulator in the EXG sig gen.

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 05:34:30 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on March 28, 2017, 04:37:06 pmSome rough edges and I mentioned them, also some lack of features I had hoped to see.QuoteEasy to just say that. Last time you questioned my MXA tests and I explained why and how each test was done. How about asking a question instead of asserting? When I explained my MXA testing rationale I didn't see you come back and acknowledge it.QuoteYes, as I type this I am rolling in the money R&S sent me.QuoteBecause that is how I chose to film it.QuoteNot only I showed the battery life at the beginning of the video, this information is readily available from datasheet.QuoteDid talk about the screen performance a little, but didn't stick it in the fridge.QuoteI specifically talked about both of these.QuoteAgain, I specifically showed this during the tests.QuoteAgain, showed some of this. Showed the warning to user when overload condition is detected.QuoteYes, LO leakage.I have no problem with discussions and questions, that is the whole point of posting here. But somehow each time you reply to my posts there is a tone of hostility I really do not enjoy. If I am mistaken, I apologize.PS: I still have to measure the 8GHz amplifier gain... Will do that soon I hope.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 06:31:42 pm
content: Quotegimme a chance... having just read the above I just checked and on your old MXA thread you finally replied with your explanation (today) to a question I askedabout 20 days agoon that old thread. So it seems a bit odd that you ask why I haven't replied to that old resurrected thread within a few hours of your post? Can I wait 20 days like you did pleasehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-mxa-signal-analyzer-spectrum-analyzer-review-analysis-experiments/QuoteI looked through the MXA thread linked above and this one and I don't think I'm being hostile. Critical, yes, but not hostile.

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 06:37:40 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on March 28, 2017, 06:31:42 pmI replied to your criticism of the MXA on « Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 10:53:53 AM ». The rest of the discussions were only about the gain of the amplifier which didn't relate to the MXA performance anyway.Again, I do not expect anything nor are you responsible to reply to me. We are all busy.Criticisms are fine, (required to improve) but there are a million ways of delivering criticism, not all equal. Either way, no hard feelings. I do appreciate the feedback and that you watch the videos.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 08:36:52 pm
content: Nice demo and teardown thanks ShahriarInteresting to see it's only got AM and FM demodulators maybe you might have to pay a bit more to get the QAM constellation diagrams, we'll see. Has the look and feel of a classic swept analyzer but the IF all digital.QuoteWatch the video at about 32 mins in it's all there on the display.For 100kHz SPANRBW 1kHz VBW 1kHz SWT 114msRBW 100Hz VBW 100Hz SWT 328msRBW 30Hz VBW 30Hz SWT 1.67 secDamn that's fast, you can't do that with a classic swept anayzer and Polarad spelled it all out in a app note back in the day. Backend processing got to be FFT and more. Nice

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:35:20 pm
content: Love your videos Shahriar.. keep up the good work!

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2017, 09:40:15 pm
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on March 28, 2017, 08:36:52 pmI was hoping to see how fluid it might be when doing a single FFT on a very narrow span. Much narrower than a 100kHz span. Maybe explore all the available RBWs down to 1Hz on default span settings? It would have been interesting to me to see the very close in phase noise in these tests as well.Also, one of the odd things with the analyser was the way it drew some of the RBW filters in the earlier sections. They were jagged/wonky. Almost as if there was some rule being broken in the DSP or if there was a sweep issue. Also the phase noise was asymmetric on some sweeps.In other places it looked like the vertical marker was dominating/blanking the trace on some sweeps. That looked odd to me but maybe that is a youtube effect.In another place the nearby phase noise had a distinct step/jaggy in it that looked like a bug? I don't think that was a youtube effect but it certainly caught my eye.There were other oddities but maybe I'm just going to clog the thread if I list them all.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 03:37:07 am
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on March 28, 2017, 03:55:55 pmShe is a very cool Cat...Your videos are great, I enjoy them all.Andfor Pooch

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 06:24:30 am
content: One should not forget that this is a budget spectrum analyzer, it's not intended to replace a FSL so there has to be reasonable expectations regarding the performance.It is a super useful tool for fast checks and interference hunting.It's kind of rugged, you can use it with gloves, only bad thing is the "enter" button in the middle of the wheel, it's too small and hard to press with gloves on.There is unfortunately a good amount of leakage from, i suppose, the display driver.From, say, 210MHz up into UHF at every 30MHz, especially noticable when you use a antenna directly in the antenna jack and very visible when sniffing around with EMC-probes.As i mentioned somewhere, it is an R&S, they too often release the products with FW/SW full of bugs and issues end lets the user do the work by reporting all the bugs and issues.Yes, Tektronix and Keysight also have bugs but R&S is notorius.The CMA180 for example, great technical performance but the MMI is a bad joke.

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 07:08:18 pm
content: I noticed today that there is a new version of instrument view,1.5, published march 14th.It has a lot of improvements, like being able to connect via USB, it did not work at all in the last version..but now it connects very fasthttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/software/fph/..and the best of all...There is also a new firmware, 1.40, also released march 14th.Now the FPH starts to be useable, there is some bugs when you switch between ACP, changing frequencies and adding markers and stuff like that but i guess there will be a version 1.50 out soonUnfortunatey the issue with leaking LCD clock is still there.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/firmware/fph/

author: norks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 09:44:11 pm
content: Quote from: slurry on March 29, 2017, 06:24:30 amI don't know how familiar you are with budget test equipment from Rigol, Siglent, et al. but I'd like to hear your thoughts on how R&S compare to them in this respect. I got the impression those mfrs really lean on this crutch of letting end users find the bugs and then patching as needed. Do you think R&S are just as bad or are the Chinese mfrs on another level?

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 11:37:00 am
content: I have less experience with Rigol and Siglent but i do know that R&S ex-Hameg product line up main focus is the budget-segment and therefore have to be cheaper in production and development.Qualitywise i would say that R&S hardware is slightly to much better depending on where you look, SW/FW-wise they are slightly better but that is after all bugs and issues are taken care of.The new portable "rider-series" of FPH, RTH and ZPH is no exception, during the time i've had the FPH i upgraded the FW three times and there is still some issues.Regarding the midrange to professional series of gear from R&S,they still have some problems with software, new equipment are forced into public release long before the bugs and quirks are taken care of.It is always a little sad to see a RTO (or was it a RTE?) needing two reboots during a demo with audience, kind of a Bill Gates Win98 moment

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 03:47:07 pm
content: The new FW does work quite good, there is a completely new menu now with some interesting functionality, i haven't tried everything out yet but it sure looks good.

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:44:21 am
content: Today i tried the AM modulations depth measurement that comes with ver 1.40,it works just fine, spot on compared with a CMS52

author: zitoune
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 03:17:06 pm
content: Hello Shahriar,I have been watching the video with lots of interest - thank you very much for the good work you are doing with your reviews and a special note for reviewing the FPH.Actually, I also quite like R&S brand, despite its price point they do really good instruments. The video convinced me to acquire a FPHI've been playing around with most of the features and like it!

author: zitoune
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 03:56:08 pm
content: Hello slurry,I upgraded to FW 1.4 and can see lots of new features compared to the 1.1However I cannot see the spectrogram / spectrogram playback menus: do you have any option installed i may need to see those two?Thanks

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:48:32 am
content: Yes, spectrogram is in an option called interference analysis, FPH-K15also i would recommend the preamplifier option FPH-B22What is your intended purpose with the FPH? general faultfinding measurements or interference hunting?I use for the latter and it's hard to beat for that purpose, in that case you might want to add the options K7 modulation analysis and K43 receiver mode.

author: zitoune
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 02:17:19 pm
content: Thanks for your answer - I will then consider the interference analysis option.For now I use it for fault hunting - i may add the near field probes + amplifier set HZ15/HZ16The touchscreen is very responsive and with combination of the keyboard becomes very handy!Is there any multi purpose antenna you may recommend ?