Mercury poisoning - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: saike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:30:14 am
content: This is indirectly electronics related but may be interestingI was working on an ex military site recently which is now a privately owned industrial site and I had a big (several tons) delivery of old surplus USSR military electronic and aviation stuff delivered from eastern Europe.The stuff was hastily unloaded because it was absolutely pouring down with rain, and then the truck drove away. While I was sorting through the stuff I noticed there were small pools of mercury laying on the ground and a careful inspection found two jars of the stuff, one of which had fallen over and leaked everywhere.One of my work colleagues ran around screaming "It's mercury, It's mercury, keep everyone away". I told him to calm down & keep quiet and proceeded to sweep the stuff into larger pools that I could then collect and put back in the jar, and I thought I had done a good job of clearing the whole area.What I didn't know was that as the truck turned a corner to leave the site it left another (small) shower of mercury on the verge at the side of the road. A couple of days later I had a visit from the site safety & fire people who told me they were closing off a part of the area just up the road from my workshop while they dealt with a contamination problem left over from the military presence on the site and which they thought the persistent rain had uncovered, and I agreed, it was probably the rain that caused it.Am I going to die from mercury poisoning and should I feel guilty?

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:39:48 am
content: Mercury (and lead for that matter) is not that bad. As long as you don't eat it, heat it up enough to make a significant amount of vapor, or touch it too much (not too sure about that one), you should be fine. Keep in mind mercury used to be used for dental work!The real risk is contamination causing it to enter water/food.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:41:03 am
content: Should you feel guilty? It doesn't seem to be your fault, you didn't break the jar.Are you going to die? Mercury is an interesting element in many respects, and while my experience with it is not personal, I have picked up a few things about it. For one, mercury doesn't absorb into your skin. This is why channels like Cody's Lab can dip their entire hand in mercury. You really need to somehow ingest mercury into your bloodstream to get any negative effects. Cody's Lab also actually has a video on what to do when mercury is spilled. Mercury can actually shatter into many droplets all around the place, so the best course of action is to sweep up EVERYTHING dirt on the ground in the vicinity of the metal.Obvious safety precautions include, do not lick it, do not put it on a wound, don't let your cats near the area.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:51:02 am
content: Quote from: saike on February 26, 2018, 07:30:14 amDying? Quite probably not---old time Gold Miners used mercury as a bonding agent to remove gold from the crushed ore after going through the crushing plant, or "Battery" as it was called.The Gold adhered to the mercury, the other crud didn't.My Grandfather & Uncle owned a Goldmine, which included its own "Battery", so they didn't have to travel to the "State Battery" as others did.They used Potassium Cyanide for another process, & the big Commercial mining companies used Arsenic for yet another.One of my Grandfather's favourite tricks was to dip an old fashioned Penny in mercury "magically converting" it into a "Two Shilling piece", to the wonderment of us kids!Some Miners did "turn up their toes" early, but that was mostly from Dust related ailments.Guilty?----Certainly!Even though you know the concern is mostly duck poo, there is still that nagging feeling that maybe, just maybe, the panic merchants are right

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:57:14 am
content: Quote from: nehapatel on February 26, 2018, 07:42:36 amWelcome to the EEVBlog forums.Mercury can only affect you IF it gets inside of you. Unless you spend excessive amounts of time sniffing mercury vapors, or somehow ingest it, I wouldn't worry about it. Aluminium is also not the same as Mercury, as if you are in a situation where you might be inhaling solid mercury dust, you have much bigger problems on your hand considering you are standing in a spot cold enough to immediately kill you.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 11:53:58 am
content: Note that while metallic mercury is not THAT nasty (It is basically a heavy metal, but not massively bio available), some mercury compounds are really bad news.Do not for example mix it with a powerful methylating agent, Dimethyl Mercury is pretty close to as nasty as non nuclear poisons get, it used to be the reference for nerve agent toxicity.It is the salts and organo mercury compounds that really gives the stuff its reputation, you probably dont want to store it near things with available -CH3.Regards, Dan.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 12:21:02 pm
content: Hey, how was that leaky jar of mercury shipped from Eastern Europe to Britain? By air or sea?Because if it was leaking when carried by air, *someone* has a severe problem.Mercury is absolutely forbidden on planes. If it come in contact with the aluminium airframe, it can do that rapid alloying thing mercury does to aluminium, turning the structure into crumbly rubbish. Undesirable in airframes.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 12:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 26, 2018, 12:21:02 pmThat is one thing to note. Especially if it's a military shipment, they may or may not have put civilian grade checking into it. Good catch here...

author: saike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 01:07:27 pm
content: QuoteThe stuff came by road & sea from somewhere where they seem to have have a slightly different set of rules about health & safety compared to the on site COSHHhttp://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/representative I had running round in circles here.My friend (now retired) who regularly purchased this stuff was also taken to an out of town site and offered an array of different weapons ranging from missiles to a vast assortment of handguns which he politely declined.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 01:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on February 26, 2018, 11:53:58 amWhich is why it needs to be cleaned up carefully and responsibly, if released into the environment, where bacteria can do exactly that job.Tim

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 01:40:55 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 26, 2018, 12:21:02 pmYes in deed.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 01:50:52 pm
content: If the area contaminated was indoors, you still need to do a thorough cleanup with something that will chemically bind the mercury for your own and your colleague's safety. If it was outdoors and the spill was recent, on a hard surface, the same cleanup procedures should be used. (Fine droplets remaining tend to evaporate and disperse so I wouldn't be concerned about the remains of a really old hard surface outdoor spill if as much as possible was initially collected) If there has been significant contamination of a dirt surface, specialist cleanup is probably required - see comments above about bacteria and organomercury.Seehttp://www.randombio.com/info/mercury.htmlfor details of an effective cleanup procedure and more details of the hazards.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 05:05:36 pm
content: .

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 05:36:19 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on February 26, 2018, 11:53:58 amcalling Dimethyl Mercury nasty is an understatementhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Wetterhahn

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:07:55 pm
content: Some 40 years ago we played with mercury on the tabletop. We didn't eat it, or try to inhale it. I'm still here, as are all of my classmates who were in that chemistry class.I've also been soldering for over 40 years. I don't eat the solder, nor deliberately inhale the fumes. Always leaded solder. Still alive and kicking. Granted always hobby level, I've never done production soldering, hours per day, every day. My parents didn't let me chew on parts of the house when I was a baby.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on February 26, 2018, 05:36:19 pm

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 08:54:04 pm
content: Correct. You will be fine.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 05:34:19 pm
content: I have some problems with this video. I do a fair amount of high vacuum work and one thing I can tell you is that at atmospheric pressure and 50 degrees mercury noes not normally vaporize. If there is some other effect going on here I am open to hear about it, but mercury itself at the claimed pressure and temperature is not going anywhere. In vacuum however its a different story.I am in no way advocating open evaporating dishes of metallic mercury as the next fad, but if its being used in a laboratory setting having some sitting in the open is probably not the most dangerous thing you did that day.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 06:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: calexanian on February 28, 2018, 05:34:19 pmAccording to the Chemical Rubber Co. Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, the vapor pressure at 50°C of mercury is 0.01267 mmHg. Since the pressure of the atmosphere is 760 mmHg, this reflects an equilibrium of 60,000 molecules of air to 1 atom of mercury vapor. Small, but not insignificant, and as the video explains, readily detectable by the UVC fluorescence technique.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 06:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 26, 2018, 12:21:02 pmGallium does these cool things too :-)

author: saike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 06:57:44 pm
content: I wish I had photographed all this stuff now but that was frowned upon by the company i was working for as a subcontractor. It wasn't anything important, it was all being used as film props.There were also a few steel tubes full of mercury about 25mm outer diameter x 30 cm. long with a screw cap on each end with one end painted red and the other end green. They looked very old and I would guess had been laying around unprotected for 10+ years.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 07:28:03 pm
content: The biggest risk is someone finding out, who has the power to impose an expensive clean-up order.Metallic mercury isn't a big risk.ISTR sulphur powder can be used to mop up spills.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 08:09:33 pm
content: QuoteA 1:1 mixture of sulphur/calcium hydroxide...http://www.m-p.co.uk/muk/parts/chap14/mercury-spillage-powders-0798050015.htmThey sell the Mercury too.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 08:18:09 pm
content: Mercury is very poisonous affecting the central nervous system. Problem with the liquid metal is that it evaporates at room temperature.Start eating raw celery on a regular basis, it is quite good for natural chelation of heavy metals

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 08:25:58 pm
content: Celery is high in potassium nitrite, will that help you or just nitrate the mercury in the body? Chelation usually requires bidentate ligands like EDTA.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 08:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: helius on February 28, 2018, 08:25:58 pmEDTA is an organic compound used in chelation sometimes, experimentally intravenously for example in autistic childs to test if the autism is the result of heavy metal poisoning. However it is toxic to the kidneys.Celery acts as a chelant with its own organic compounds, not with nitrite. Unfortunately such is the state of current science when it comes to studying natural plants as medicines that not too much is known

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 08:57:27 pm
content: It may increase excretion through single substitution with magnesium oxalate. That's not really chelation.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2018, 05:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: helius on February 28, 2018, 06:32:02 pmIt's amusing to see that the vapor pressure of mercury is given in units of ... mercury pressure!

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2018, 07:45:38 pm
content: Sure, of course mmHg has nothing to do with vapor and is just the pressure exerted by a column of liquid of a given height. If it makes you feel better just s/mmHg/Torr/g and call it a day.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2018, 02:25:44 am
content: Quote from: helius on March 01, 2018, 07:45:38 pmOh, man, we deal with vacuum at the day job, and after nearly 14 years of it I still have no feel at all for the relationship of the various units. Torr! ATM! mmHg! PSI! Pascal! Wait, that last is a programming language ...

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:35:40 am
content: It binds with Selenium which revents it going across the blood-brain barrier IIRC according to a professor I know who leads a team that researches methylmercury and other pollutants. Ditto for lead.If it wasn't so horrid weather today in N UK I was would have been at the pub at the university as planned and asked him about the Se and Pb.(He's more of an Arsenic expert but the methylmercury one doesn't go to the uni pub.)Many soils are Selenium impoverished but one can't work on soil content given the internationalisation of food supply. Many of us are deficient in Se trace mineral.Some of the food sources of Selenium, big predatory fish are quite high in MethylmercuryClearly Selenium supplementation should not be used as a primary means of health risk mitigation.Obviously something has broken down in the control of risk hierarchyElimination,> Substitution> Engineering Controls,> Administrative controls> Personal protective equipment> Health monitoringAs well as your employer or agency failing to do the due diligence in assessing what exactly was in the load and the risk in the first instance.Your employer should now enrol you to health monitoring and work on the assumption that you were exposed.Don't worry about it though.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:05:57 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on February 26, 2018, 07:39:48 amJust like in Lithium batteries the dangerous metal is chemically bound making the situation completely different.

author: saike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:14:57 pm
content: QuoteI work as a subcontractor and never pass problems further up the chain of heirarchy, they are dealt with at local level as in this case. The site was cleaned properly, I just didn't have to pay for it.This brings up another point where I have had to attend courses on health & safety, discrimination in the workplace and more relevantly, anti bribery & corruption where people who seem to have never worked in a real world job were trying to tell me that the way to deal with a 'facilitator', in another country who speaks another language is to tell them that I will report them to their superiors. I told the lecturer to 'get real' and the only person who didn't understand what I meant was her (the lecturer).This is drifting a long way from electronics so I will draw a line here and not post any more.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 02:31:20 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 28, 2018, 08:09:33 pmGood grief, so you guys in the UK still spell sulfur as sulphur? I learned it as sulphur too but my chem professor quickly told me that that was "archaic". He didn't think much of my use of the word aluminium either. The preferred spelling in the US is aluminum but I don't consider that in keeping with the spelling of names of other metals so I still use aluminium.FWIW that was the ice breaker between my chem professor and I. I found that he was an quite an interesting guy. He told me that his first job out of college was making nitroglycerine in 2,000 lb batches at the Radford Army Ammunition plant. I used to live near there and had seen various buildings explode (said 2,000 lb of NG all disappearing at once!), so we started comparing stories and found we had a lot in common even though he was probably forty years older than I.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 02:55:37 pm
content: Sulphur and aluminium are accepted alternative spellings, yes.Sulfur and aluminum are recommended by ACS, for obvious reasons.Tim

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 02:55:45 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on February 26, 2018, 05:36:19 pmDamn. That was a sad story.