Warning : JLCPCB new nonsensical PCBA size limits - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 09:47:16 pm
content: Just a warning for anyone relying on JLCPCB assembly -It seems that JLC have very recently ( last day or two) introduced this bizarre limitation on panel size for PCB assembly.QuoteI have a 470x19mm PCB - a couple of days ago I went through their system to get a costing, panelised it as 1x10 & it went fine as expected.Now when I go to place an order, it won't let me as it now won't allow a panel over 250mm. As this was a proto I just did it 1-up, which meant it had to be enlarged with side rails to 70mm, wasting more than twice the material, and substantially increasing cost of both bare PCB and assembly, plus an insane shipping cost based on a wildly incorrect weight estimate.Seems like I could probably panelise it myself, but this is a PITA when you also need to do that for the assembly dataI didn't get any sense from their support.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 03:14:41 am
content: Did you talk to them? Their chat people seem to escalate issues pretty readily.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 10:45:07 am
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on March 01, 2025, 03:14:41 amThey seem insistant, despite the fact I did a panelised 411mm PCB a few months ago.Quote

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 11:17:26 am
content: Seems like this limit has been on their capabilities page for a while but wasn't previously enforced.The only rationale I can think of is that they are concerned about panels breaking at some point in the process, but every other manufacturer I've dealt with seems to have no problem with this. They did manage to pre-break a smaller panel I did recently, but that was after assembly/reflow so not an issue.Lucky this didn't happen on an order I did a few months ago where I'd pre-ordered about $1K of parts from Digikey - this is not the sort of issue you want to discover late on in the process when your parts are then effectively held hostageTime to look at PCBWay I guess, though on first look their assembly service appears a lot more expensive

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 03:47:43 pm
content: Not sure about PCBA but Seeed advertizes 10mm to 500mm and they say they make exceptions.https://support.seeedstudio.com/knowledgebase/articles/1086091-the-dimension-for-pcbQuote

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 04:11:12 pm
content: JLCPCB can make smaller single boards, but in June, 2023, I tried to get a panel done and received this:QuoteIt was a pcb for connecting an Li-ion cell.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 04:55:00 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 01, 2025, 03:47:43 pmThe issue is not the size, but that they have different limits for assembly of panelised boards

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 04:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 01, 2025, 04:11:12 pmSmall size doesn't seem to be an issue - they will happily add rails to get it up to 70mm, though compared to a panel this is ridiculously wasteful for my 19mm wide board

author: bdeianov
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 08:10:36 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 28, 2025, 09:47:16 pmI complained once about the crazy weight estimates with documented actual weights of the packages. I received a lecture on gross weight vs "volumetric weight" (see below). Good info, but they declined to do anything about improving the estimates.I've since noticed that multiple items in the same order tend to over-inflate the estimated weight and it can be cheaper to place multiple separate orders, e.g. ordering a stencil separately from the boards.Quote

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 10:49:40 am
content: Quote from: bdeianov on March 02, 2025, 08:10:36 amIn the past I've emailed them when a shipping estimate was clearly wrong, & asked them to re-weigh and adjust when shipping, and they did this & refunded the difference. Seems to mostly be an issue with long PCBs

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 10:55:26 am
content: Quote from: bdeianov on March 02, 2025, 08:10:36 amI've had adding stencils jack up the price significantly as well.I think what's happening is that unless you specify a custom stencil size that's closer to your actual board size, the bigger default stencil bumps you up to the larger size box and everything gets more expensive.It seems like that doesn't happen if you make the stencil about the same size as the boards + some boarder.

author: amwales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 11:53:13 am
content: Thanks for the tip regarding stencil sizes, I have not ordered any stencils because of what seems to happen to the shipping price.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 11:56:14 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on March 02, 2025, 10:55:26 amI've seen that, but unfortunately the custom size dialog is a bit broken so won't always let you specify the size you want even if it meets their rules - I think it uses the gerber extents on all layers rather than the paste layer to determine the image size.The solution is to do the stencil as a seperate line item, though I've not checked the effect this has on the total shipping cost.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 03:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: bdeianov on March 02, 2025, 08:10:36 amOrdering more than 1 PCBs at the same time always resulted in higher shipping costs for me than ordering separately. IDK why it's so hard to resolve this. They clearly have programmers to auto process Gerber files, even pick and place files, yet they cannot fix their database for components or the shipping. Adding 10 pieces of M3 nuts will bring the shipping to some ridiculous costs. Same goes for 3D prints that weigh nothing.I had small PCBA panelized and made by them, something like 10x20mm in size.But then I also had boards cost extra because "too much milling" or recently, they placed a part into the standard assembly from economy, increasing my cost for the PCBA by 50%.Mike, I can totally see why your non-standard PCBs, and their handling would drive you insane.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 04:32:03 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 02, 2025, 03:03:14 pmYeah, it can be a really frustrating process, mostly unnecessarily so - there are so many small things that they could change to make things be less painful :For example, apart from the above :When searching parts, instead of/as well as the "in stock" filter, have an "enough in stock for this job " filterHave an option to ignore all the stock shortfalls and just just give me the cost excluding the missing parts ( not the same as "do not populate" as I want the assembly costs )Re-export BOM and CPL files taking account all the things I changed online.Auto-panelize in whatever way is cheapest ( PCBWay have this), or at least do a cost matrix.Allow any excess parts from my parts stock to be shipped with the PCBAsAllow better BOM editing after order placed - currently having an issue that due to a blank footprint entry on one line of my BOM, their system has has combined 2 lines into one and they say the only way to fix this is cancel and re-start the job as they can't add lines themselvesProvide more than "Error, sorry" when there is a problem with a BOM.CPL file to help diagnoseDefer payment for shipping until the actual amount is known, so I can pay this not a wild estimate that then gets refunded later.Not to mention actually replying to all points raised in an email query, and not ghosting when you keep asking teh same thing that they haven't replied to.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 05:24:11 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 02, 2025, 04:32:03 pmafaiu shipping components and pcb(a)s at the same time is a custom issue because they have to be declared differently

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 07:13:16 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 01, 2025, 04:55:00 pmYes, that is why I suggested trying Seeed.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 07:52:02 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on March 02, 2025, 05:24:11 pmSo declare them - can't be that hard. LCSC manage it all the time.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 07:55:01 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 02, 2025, 07:13:16 pmWe'll explore options as & when it comes to doing the production run of 1000 boards - my customer needs to make up their mind exactly what they want first...!

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 08:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 02, 2025, 07:52:02 pmdo LCSC ship PCBAs?

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 11:12:31 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 02, 2025, 07:55:01 pmHappy to give you a quote.I can do up to 500*370mm boards on my line though ideally keep the 370mm to 330mm so we can shove it through the auto stencil.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 11:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on March 02, 2025, 08:24:17 pmfrom what I understand LCSC = JLCPCB

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 11:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 02, 2025, 04:32:03 pmFor me the real frustrating part in the expensive shipping is this:They add import tax, and VAT on top of the shipping. And if the order goes above a threshold, then I have to use DHL or Fedex to ship it, that adds another tax declaration cost. Because of course a tax declaration by an automated system has to cost like 25 EUR to do.By the looks of it, when you use "extended" components, they don't charge you picking costs. If you use "standard" PCBA, then they do. So suddenly you have to pay that 3 EUR cost to every one of those components.You design something, that you want to build 5 prototypes for, and suddenly it's so much more expensive than you wanted it to be. Not good.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 01:27:18 am
content: Quote from: Jackster on March 02, 2025, 11:12:31 pmGood to know but this job is for a US customer so they will be ordering direct, however always interested to know about UK options.FYI before they broke panelising, JLC cost for a 19x456mm PCB with 71 parts, 15 BOM lines, double-sided was about $1 for bare PCB+assembly in 1000x

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 03:45:57 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 03, 2025, 01:27:18 amDamn, that's crazy cheap

author: JLCPCB Official
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 05:55:37 am
content: Hello Mike ,Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and sorry for the inconvenience caused by the recent changes to our panel size limitations.We recommend keeping the PCB panel size within a maximum of 250mm x 250mm for PCB assembly. Exceeding this size may lead to disconnection or warping at the connection points during production, potentially affecting the quality of the assembly.If you’d like assistance or need further guidance, our support team is here to help. Please feel free to share your order details, and we’ll work with you to find the good solution.We also appreciate your feedback about the shipping cost and weight estimate. I’ve forwarded this to our team for review .

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 09:31:26 am
content: Quote from: JLCPCB Official on March 03, 2025, 05:55:37 amAll other manufacturers I've used handle this just fine.Last year you assembled some 411x100mm, 0.8mm thick boards for me with no issues.Perhaps you could use routing/mousebites instead of v-score for longer boards, and publish guidelines for spacing etc. to avoid issues.

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 06:15:10 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 03, 2025, 01:27:18 am$866 just for the boards, if it is 2 layer default settings.Another $50 for stencil.It's like China is trying to bankrupt all assembly outside of China...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2025, 07:08:58 pm
content: OK so looks like some sense may be plrvailing - just received this after a number of email exchangesQuoteWould be nice if they could increase further subject to some constraints - e.g. only 1x<n> panel, maybe with more limited width, but this is a big improvement.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 10:42:39 am
content: Quote from: Jackster on March 03, 2025, 06:15:10 pmA JLC line appears to be 2 (discontinued) Yamaha S20 with a combined headline placement speed of 80kcph, de-rate that a bit, it would still surely take these relatively modest machines 90-120 minutes to process 100 panels. Not a recipe for getting rich quick is it. And they definitely are making a stencil, you can see it in the line, I wonder if a jet printer can't reliably keep upOne of our clients told us their higher volume stuff goes to eastern europe with a fixed placement cost of 0.08 eurocents/placement (probably a little more by now). Clearly they haven't found many UK places to do this at a similar price, but I think thats attainable if you choose the right equipment. The JLC price is pretty much in that ballpark, and they have avoided many of the initial costs by forcing the customer to use their internal parts and part numbers and provide all the data in a standardised format. I could only dream of getting our clients to do that, let alone implement all the automated process they have. The european assembler wanted €700+ to implement a new product stencil data input etc which is probably a legitimate cost, particularly if your client is kitting the parts giving you no route to getting margin there.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 01:03:58 pm
content: Quote from: SMTech on March 06, 2025, 10:42:39 amThey could well have a mix of different kit, other than what's been seen publicly.As they have in-house stencil cutting, it probably makes sense to use it, as the per-stencil cost will be little more than the material cost - with jetting I wouldn't be surprised if just the additional cost of the (presumably) special paste would make it more expensive even before you add the cost of the equipment and any time factors.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 01:10:34 pm
content: I'm often shocked by what JLCPCB lets people get away with.What is the thickness of these boards? Unless they're >1/16" I'm not surprised they would want to limit panel size, especially if the board count is high and the panel is further weakened by routing/vscores/mousebites.