How do I get out of power? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PythonGuython
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 06:09:08 pm
content: I've got two more years at school and I've done an internship at the largest power company in my part of the country. It went well and it's safe to say that I have a career in power for the rest of my life. That's the last thing I want to do with my life. Is it hard to pivot industries within EE? There's so many fields I'd like to work in: tech, drones, aerospace, biomedical, electronics design, low-level programming, RF, semiconductors, but power is the one field that does not make that list. How do I convince an employer in those industries to hire me when the only professional experience I have is at a power company?

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 06:27:50 pm
content: Don't feel boxed in, you're far too early in your career to think like that.That you've done your internship in a power company does not make you uninteresting to other companies/industries.In my experience, quite the opposite. If you study the subjects that are close to your heart and excel in those, your excursion to power just demonstrates your curiosity and flexibility.If I was hiring someone, multiple skills would be much more interesting than someone completely focused on one subject. Engineering is a mindset where you are curious about everything, and have special knowledge about some things. And this special knowledge you'll develop along the way, both during your education, but especially through your employment afterwards.Chin up!

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 08:16:12 pm
content: It's a fallacy, reinforced by the gross basic incompetence of HR departments and employment agencies, that employers want cookie-cutter employees with 'just' the right experience and only that experience. They don't. Any competent experienced manager who is hiring folks will rate flexibility and an ability to learn new thingswayin advance of over-specific experience.I have regularly hired people without domain specific experience but who have demonstrated past ability to learn and apply their basic knowledge and abilities to something related but new to them; those have almost always turned out to be my best folks. The ones who are narrowly specific about their field have tended to be the employees who don't work out so well.So don't worry that all you have on your CV/resumé this early in your career is just one thing. Any decent employer can see past that. Anyone who can't is probably someone you don't want to be working for anyway.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 09:27:47 pm
content: @PythonGuython:As you see, there's a couple of experienced people on the same page here.The thing you really have to get right is: The Basics. Complex maths have been essential in almost all situations during my career (I'm over 60 now). Physics to a very large extent. But most important: Analytical Thinking. All the rest comes along the way.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 11:11:01 pm
content: I wouldn’t dismiss the power end of electrical engineering; it may be a great choice for your career. I fell into the power end of electrical engineering by chance in the dot-com bust of the early 2000’s and it proved to be a lucrative career. I’m not trying to get you to stay with power, just to consider the long term benefits.Pro’s:Most EE’s are afraid of higher voltages associated with power engineering and management is doubly afraid of power. Think of this as a great opportunity to shine above others with little competition.The power engineering community, I think, is a little more career friendly in that making good contacts early will pay off in the future. Once you have established yourself, it won’t be hard to find new better paying and career enhancing jobs. Power engineering doesn’t seem to have the one project and you are done attitude prevalent in other EE areas.Power engineering isn’t going away any time soon; it is a growing field that relies on withstanding the test of time; it may seem boring to a newbie, but it makes designing and troubleshooting a lot easier in the long run.There are plenty of opportunities to work with control and monitoring of power systems that involve other electronics. Here is where your opportunities are probably the greatest if you understand both the power and control ends of power electrical engineering.It can be a very interesting field that transcends many aspects of industry; almost all industry relies on power of some sort.Con’s:It can be boring if you really want to be on the cutting edge of electronics (but the paycheck will help overcome the boredom as you get older).The tolerance for mistakes should approach zero; your first mistake could be your very last.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 11:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: Gregg on September 25, 2020, 11:11:01 pmA paycheck is a poor substitute for fulfillment. I'm not advocating a happy go lucky attitude towards your personal finances and bills will need to get paid but not enjoying your job can be soul crushing.

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 11:27:17 pm
content: There are always cross-over disciplines where a power background is huge plus, say for example working a company that designs and builds medium voltage variable frequency drives.A power background can open many doors. Don’t sell yourself short. Figure out what interests you the most and work towards it. Trying to land that dream job as your first professional gig is just that, a dream. Very few get that lucky. Give yourself at least five years to figure things out.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 11:33:20 pm
content: QuoteWho said anything about substituting "fulfillment" for a paycheck? Also nobody said anything about being in the circle of the latest wizz-bang technology would lead to fulfillment.You get out of life only what you put into it. I personally decided that in order to achieve a reasonable retirement, I had to earn some money and save as much as possible. I found fulfillment in learning the intricacies of power electrical engineering and making a good career from my willingness to learn and apply what I learned. The fulfillment of saving the company you are working for millions of dollars and becoming a local hero is hard to surpass.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 11:43:21 pm
content: A couple of things to consider.One is that for a fulfilling career path in engineering, your work and responsibility will grow and expand beyond the simply technical, into areas like cost, schedule, client relationships, team management, supervision, planning, safety, environment, legislation and compliance, and a multitude of other things that increase your scope and responsibility.So when thinking about industries to work in, consider if these things will matter to you (they likely will), and think about the opportunity of those industries to provide them. Industries that have big, expensive projects may be a good place to be.How narrow are the boundaries of power? Do trains and rail systems count? I've noticed that electric drives in trains have been evolving rapidly, with each new generation of trains having different electronics in the drive and control/signaling systems. When trains take a 25 kV AC supply and process it through multi-megawatt VFD drives to feed to the traction motors, where does this fit in the scheme of things?But above all, as others have said, don't think you have to be pigeon-holed. The hallmark of a good engineer is to be adaptable and to have a solid, general foundation. Every bit of experience you get is good experience and will likely find some relevance in the future even where you didn't expect it.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 12:18:11 am
content: Quote from: Gregg on September 25, 2020, 11:33:20 pmThat's fine if it'syourdream - all power to you, but advocating it for someone who has already said, and I quote "[Power engineering]'s the last thing I want to do with my life." is what I think Le Scram is objecting to as "a poor substitute for fulfilment".Youmight find it fulfilling, to others it might be hell, and "last thing I want to do" is a pretty big hint that you're off target.And treated as a "local hero" for doing engineering? Pull the other one. Now if you'd said "I work for the fire department, my sole duty is saving kittens from trees" I might have believed you.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 12:19:02 am
content: Quote from: PythonGuython on September 25, 2020, 06:09:08 pmEasy, you work on that stuff.I'm not talking as your day job, but "midnight engineering" working on your own projects and/or side contracts if possible. Then you take your designs and whatnot along to the interview to show off. And then you be honest about say you have all this power industry experience, but your real passion is *insert here* and then show them your projects. Any good company worth working for will eat that up.Well, when I say "easy", you have to put in the work. Could take 6-12 months hard work on your own time to have a project or two worth showing off.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 12:33:18 am
content: Quote from: IanB on September 25, 2020, 11:43:21 pmAgain, that's a "one man's meat is another man's poison" thing. One of the worst things that many organizations do is turn good engineers into bad managers or poor administrators, by having no career advancement paths that don't eventually lead to "general management". A very few provide a growth path for engineers that keeps them engineers (if that's what they want) - Sun, when it still existed, excelled at have these rôles available so that good engineers didn't go to waste as bad managers. If progress towards general management is someone's forte, that's fine, and a traditional career path will suit them. But that path is not, and should not be seen as, the only way to progress in one's career if that doesn't suit one. That said, it can be hard to avoid as enlightened companies, like the pre-Oracle Sun was, are few and far between.I do, however, heartily encourage any and all of my competitors to stick to the "management is the only upward career path for engineers" strategy.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 02:09:27 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 26, 2020, 12:18:11 amIt happens. It happened to me, at least "local in our corner of the industry". I loved it, but pretty quickly decided that it wasn't good for me to have my ego stroked so much. So now I only accept a moderate amount of ego-stroking, and have tried to move out of my technical comfort-zone.I agree with the general consensus here: Don't get pigeonholed early in your career, learn what you can where you can, do your best work wherever you are, be flexible and open-minded. Expect to be pleasantly surprised at how interesting the challenges you will be facing are. Don't be afraid to move on when there better opportunities, but do so ethically. There will be trials and tribulations, learn from these with grace and don't give up on yourself. One of my most valuable experiences was being fired from my technician job; I learned that companies hire and fire for their own reasons, it's not a "'til death do us part" relationship.This advice may seem contradictory in places, but so is live. Have fun.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:21:56 am
content: Quote from: fourfathom on September 26, 2020, 02:09:27 amY'all know I was just joshing, right?

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:46:15 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 26, 2020, 03:21:56 amYou do it with a very straight face!As for management track vs engineering track, there do seem to be many more opportunities to "advance" into management. When I retired I was at Cisco (we were acquired two years previously) and I had shifted from being a good engineer and a poor manager (I was managing, but had kept some design responsibilities), back into a pure engineering track. Cisco had a good path for me, but few engineers were offered the opportunity. In contrast, there were vastly more middle and upper-level management positions than there were upper-echelon engineering jobs. But that sort of makes sense, given the way large businesses operate. It's not some sinister management conspiracy, it just reflects the operational needs of the company.I used to have the motto "Don't get good at something you don't like doing" but that advice can be damaging to your career if you carry it to an extreme. You do need to be someone who will step up and get the job done, even if it's not your favorite thing. And hay, you might learn something interesting and useful!

author: pidcon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:38:05 am
content: Young engineers are always valuable, because they are coachable and adaptable.

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 05:24:34 am
content: Quote from: Gregg on September 25, 2020, 11:11:01 pmExcuse me? I don't know what sector you're in but have you seen what's going on with renewables, EVs and WBG semiconductors!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 07:38:27 am
content: I was going to say "lose the election", but then I read further...

author: geggi1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 09:43:01 am
content: One way to widen your area of experience is to get a second trade. I did this by first getting a HV certificate of trade and then LV residential/agricultural/industrial installation certificate. And now after 25 yeas following the guidelines below i have become senior engineer HV&LV in a medium sized electrical installation company.Get employment in small companies because a small company let you do more different jobs.Dont stay to long in each of the smaller companies 2-3 years is usually plenty of time.When you become more experienced go for the larger companies.Always have an eye for opportunity to widen your knowlage.Get a hobby that is close to what you want to do in the future. (Electronics, MCU, programming, ham radio, CAD drawing)Dont be afraid of challenging jobs and always be prepared by reading up and researching information to do the job.Find some technical areas to excel above the rest of the team, to become the goto guy.Be a team player.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:18:09 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on September 26, 2020, 03:46:15 am<- (pointing at flag) British, remember? To a Briton the best jokes are ones that can be told with a straight face, especially if we incidently insult the French but they think we're complimenting them.QuoteI'm not suggesting conspiracy, merely the usual corporate incompetence. You get an engineer that's good enough that you want to promote. The only promotion opportunities you offer are (to a lesser or greater extent) managerial rather than engineering. There are several possible outcomes:The engineer doesn't want to be a manager, so you lose them to a competitor who has senior real engineering positions available (Failure)The engineer is prepared to be, or wants to be, a manager:You gain agoodmanager, but lose a good engineer to your own management (Partial success/Partial failure)You gain alousymanager, and lose a good engineer to your own management (Failure)So crudely* you have a 66% chance of a complete failure, and 33% of partial failure/partial success, collected as totals that's 79% failure and 16% success.. None of the outcomes are purely favourable to you.Make senior pure engineering rôles available and the scenario now looks like this:The engineer doesn't want to be a manager, so you promote them to a senior real engineering position (Success)The engineer is prepared to be, or wants to be, a manager:You gain agoodmanager, but lose a good engineer to your own management (Partial success/Partial failure)You gain alousymanager, and lose a good engineer to your own management (Failure)But you can recover by promoting them sideways back to engineering (Success)Now the tally is (33% +16% +16%) success = 66%, (16% + 16%) = 33% failure. (79% success, 16% failure if you can fix all your mis-promotions to management.)Contrast the two, in the 'promotion to management only' case your success/failure rate is 16%/79%, in the other it is 66%/33% (or optimistically 79%/16%). Given that, it's pretty clear which strategy is better (if you can practically realise it).*Crudely = simple assumptions about rates of success/failure (equal distribution to all cases) and the usual 'round percentages don't add up to 100%' caveat.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 01:16:45 am
content: The discussion below probably doesn't help the OP with his question, but I do think that it's worthwhile for engineers at any stage of their career ponder these issues:Quote from: Cerebus on September 26, 2020, 03:18:09 pmI know you're simplifying to illustrate a point, but it is a rather two-dimensional simplification. Management doesn't necessarily mean giving up engineering, but it does to tend to shift your work from the details stuff towards the big picture view. In many companies, an engineer who moves into management is extremely valuable. You may be responsible for a team of engineers and technicians, providing them technical guidance and helping shape the entire development process. This is something that a pure manager (MBA, etc) will not excel at.At my last start-up I took the title of "Director of Systems Engineering" because it needed to be done. I managed a group of very talented and motivated engineers, and at the same time I was responsible for many of the architectural decisions, as well as doing some detail design work in areas where I was somewhat of an expert. This was extremely fulfilling and I learned a lot in the process. This gave me insights into the business-end of the company and industry that I would have never had if I had remained a pure engineer. I wasn't a great manager, but good enough as long as the team was small and motivated. As we grew, I gradually shifted out of management and more into an architect and troubleshooter role. I would have become a poor non-technical manager, I knew that and so did everyone else, so I steered clear of that path and everyone was happy.So, all you young'uns out there, don't think of it as an "either/or" situation. Depending on the situation you may be able to have both. This won't happen in the early stages of your career, but once you have gained some experience you may see some opportunities.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 02:30:26 am
content: Your problem is almost a mirror of what I thought mine was when I graduated. I had spent two summers interning in the power field, and for reasons that are not very good thought that I wanted a career in power. Turns out they didn't want me. So I was looking for a job in a year when engineers weren't in too high a demand.In interviews I emphasized my hobby experience and education that applied to the problems at the companies I was talking with. And got two offers from companies in wildly different fields. Went with one of them, and as others have said, the career went where it needed to go. Not into a particular pigeon hole.As long as you keep your mind limber you should do fine.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 03:27:35 am
content: Quote from: fourfathom on September 27, 2020, 01:16:45 amYes, it is. I'm merely trying to illustrate the stupidity of not having a path for career advancement for the folks who want to keep doing pure engineering, or are only suited to doing pure engineering, and the huge advantages from a corporate point of view to making such a path available. Putting numbers on that is always going to be crude and a blunt tool, and there's always a more nuanced discussion to be had about it.So I'm not saying that engineering management is a bad thingper se, or that it's necessarily incompatible with still doing actual engineering too. As it happens, all the full time jobs I've had since around '96 have been something that boils down to something like "Head of Engineering" for the companies I worked at (I do freelance work nowadays) and "<something> Manager" for the previous 5 years. In fact the more senior you are (in general management terms) the more discretion you generally have to make your job what you want it to be. Personally, as a big fan of "managing by walking around", I've never suffered from a shortage of real engineering problems to solve as you tend to trip over them if you visit the 'coal face' regularly (you also find the flaws in your own, oh-so-elegant, architectural decisions that you've handed downex-cathedra). It's the early-mid career engineering management positions that some people, in some companies, may find that they get too much administrative work, spend way too much time in meetings and get too little engineering to do - but it very much depends on the company you work for.