Can Someone Explain What All This Stuff Is? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 11:24:22 am
content: Hey all,I'm looking at the datasheet for the ISP_BLE_5S1057 (https://www.insightsip.com/fichiers_insightsip/pdf/ble/ISP1507/isp_ble_DS1507.pdf), specifically the AX variant, and when looking at the example they provide I am completely dumfounded by all the extra stuff they have on the schematic. I'm very new to the whole world of PCB design, so if someone could help I would greatly appreciate it!I've attached a screenshot of what I mean.Thank you everyone!Max

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:28:32 pm
content: If you don't know why all of that extra support 'stuff' is required (like power supply decoupling, master crystal clock oscillator, power pins, GPIO) then why are you even looking at such a complex I.C.If you feel you have a need to design that I.C. into your project you would already have a firm grip on the ancillary support required for that I.C. to operate. You need some kind of beginner level FPGA/CPLD/MCU/DSP book. Why would you be tasked to design a PCB around an I.C. you don't understand? The exact layout of the power traces and placement of the decoupling capacitors is both an art and science in itself which you will also need to understand and that pertains to the simplest of the logic families to get stable results.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:31:55 pm
content: Hey CaptDon,Thank you for your response! I'm using this IC because I'm working under the assumption that it is the best and easiest way to achieve what I want to achieve, which is long range communication between two small wearables. The Bluetooth would talk to the users' phones, which would connect to a server. To be honest I'm way over my head here but I've been told this is the easiest way. I know this is a very large project for someone of my skill level, but I appreciate any help.Thanks,Max

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:48:38 pm
content: Use a module with built in antenna that works out of the box. With this much knowledge you will run into a ton of headaches trying to make a wireless system work. I mean you need thousands of EUR worth of test equipment just to make the antenna semi-decent.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:50:36 pm
content: Hey Tszaboo,Thank you. I really appreciate the help. Could you point me in the right direction for finding an IC with a built in antenna? I was looking at the Laird BL652 but the lead time is 52 weeks and the dev board costs $150.Thanks!Max

author: xvr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 23, 2024, 11:24:22 amThis is not an example - this is schematic of module itself. See table on next page for real pins, exposed by module. Also see beacon schematic on page 18 - this is real example of module usage.QuoteThis is not an IC, this is module, based on Nordic MCU. Schematic in datasheet has a little misleading title

author: xvr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:53:46 pm
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 23, 2024, 01:50:36 pmThis module has built-in antenna

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 01:54:48 pm
content: Quote from: xvr on May 23, 2024, 01:52:56 pmDude thank you so much I've been banging my head against a wall for like 2 hours trying to figure out why the schematic I'm using doesn't match that diagram.Thank you,Max

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2024, 07:52:02 am
content: Quote from: xvr on May 23, 2024, 01:53:46 pmRight. IDK why they didn't put the antenna on the schematic, it's confusing.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 01:44:13 pm
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 23, 2024, 01:31:55 pmThat's a variant of the Dunning-Kruger effect, also similar to "ignorance is bliss".

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 05:30:35 am
content: And YOU posted there toohttps://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/can-someone-explain-what-all-this-stuff-is.201017/YOU already have 2 pages of thread there,stay there and stop wasting our timegeez

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 05:39:14 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 27, 2024, 05:30:35 amFirst of all, I don't know why you're being such a dick. If you didn't want to respond then don't; I'm not forcing you and I'm not wasting anyone's time. Second of all, yes I posted on multiple forums, is there anything wrong with that? I don't get why you care so much. Third of all, I literally posted this in the beginners tab of this forum, so I'm not sure why you're getting so hung up on this. Just leave if you're not gonna help.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 05:41:16 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on May 26, 2024, 01:44:13 pmAgain, instead of just insulting a beginner who posts in the "beginner" tab, maybe actually help or provide a useful answer. Why you would take the time out of your day to randomly hate on someone trying to learn something new is beyond me. I just asked a simple question. Maybe actually provide me with solutions or alternatives, or be a productive or helpful member of these forums at ALL instead of just pointing fun at beginners.

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 06:34:16 am
content: Dude, just buy some "plug-and-play" wireless development board first and play with them. NRF52-based modules are indeed a good choice for ARM+BLE solution. Others to consider here is maybe some LoRa-based and TI CC-based radios. Familiarize yourself with their performance, requirements and limitations before you set yourself into a project with alotof constraints.Direct point to point long range wireless communication is not something trivial. 40 Km is not something trivial. It will either require low frequency (huge antenna) or high power (not battery friendly) or some complicated modulation.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 08:03:43 am
content: Quote from: ArdWar on May 27, 2024, 06:34:16 amThe problem is just the size constraints.Quote from: ArdWar on May 27, 2024, 06:34:16 amI'm not making the bluetooth reach 40km. I'm using the bluetooth to connect to the phones of the users and then using the phones to reach 40km over a server.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 08:07:53 am
content: To the OP:As you say you don't have a lot of experience with PCB design, are you sure you can solder that module?I would think a reflow oven is needed,maybesomeone skilled with a hot air gun can make it.If you intend to have the board assembled by one of the PCB factories that provide the service, check their capabilities.Note that the requirements for pad size and vias are quite strict, e.g. JLCPCB does not support that via size and finish.As for some "helpful" answers you got - well, there this thing called "ignore list" on your profile...

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 08:22:50 am
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 27, 2024, 08:03:43 amDon't be too preoccupied with downsizing right away. The whole point of devboards are todevelopthe prototype product first. Their large size is not a constraint here, it make things easier to fiddle around with. Jumpers instead of solders, USB connection instead of serial programmer, power supplies instead of batteries, etc. More importantly it gives you starting point where you at least know things are working, instead of trying to troubleshoot which one of your design decision is not working. It also allows you to figure out what idea works (or not), how things work, what performance/feature/constraint are there, and ultimately figuring out if the solution is right or not for the job.Only after you able to make your idea works with the devboards then you can move to the next step of downsizing it. Don't jump right into designing the end product especially since you appears to be 1) not familiar with hardware development; 2) not familiar with firmware development; and 3) not familiar with how exactly you want your device to work yet.Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 27, 2024, 08:03:43 amThat makes a lot of sense then. A phone companion? Or is it NB-IOT? (is it even still a thing?)Add:By the way, ISP1507, neat MCM. nRF52 with most of requisite close coupled components in one package. But do you really want to use QFN package with hidden pad? Not exactly beginner friendly, unless you plan to assemble it in a production house.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 11:11:59 am
content: he's been warned on his other threads not just me @NewBrainas for helpful answers : an respectful OP should write that he as asked the same thing elsewhere ....witch make many people "work for him" and they where lots of details in them ....

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 11:22:47 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 27, 2024, 11:11:59 amActually, I wasn't warned in any other threads, and I would love to be able to read the rest of your message but I cannot understand what you're saying for the life of me/

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 11:28:37 am
content: readhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/whats-with-these-inconsistent-pins/

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 11:29:43 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 27, 2024, 11:28:37 amTHIS WAS LITERALLY AFTER THE ORIGINAL THREAD. Do you want me to go back in time to stop myself from posting or what?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 11:35:24 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 27, 2024, 11:11:59 amTrue, but it does not look like Max is interested in the advice given. He wants someone to solve his problems with something he is clearly way out of his depth with. And seen that he claims in his profile to be just 16 years old, it is understandable that he has no experience nor full fledged knowledge on this kind of stuff.Like newbrain I too told him in another thread that the module is something that needs experience and proper tools to solder it. I would not use it for any of my hobby projects and certainly not in a startup phase where I was working on making a new design. A development board would be a better choice, and then indeed research if a PCB manufacturer is able to solder it to the final board for me.Hell, basic QFN with a buried ground pad is already a step to far for me due to the lack of the right tools for it, and aging problems for that matter.He is somewhat lucky to be growing up in this time with all the information available on the internet. When I was young you had to go to a library to read books or magazines on the subject. But most likely non of us oldies jumped straight in to trying to develop something way beyond our knowledge and capabilities. We grew into things by learning from the ground up.So again my advice to Max is to first learn the basics of electronics.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 11:39:42 am
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 27, 2024, 11:22:47 amWell you where in this threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-point-of-this-ffc-connector/by both ataradov and me.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 12:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 27, 2024, 11:39:42 amI mean I would encourage you to point you to the message where you warned me as I can't seem to find it.

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 02:15:37 pm
content: And using such a vile colour scheme.I have to look away.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 03:20:14 pm
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 27, 2024, 12:27:18 pmMe:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-point-of-this-ffc-connector/msg5515573/#msg5515573ataradov:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-point-of-this-ffc-connector/msg5515942/#msg5515942Me:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-is-the-point-of-this-ffc-connector/msg5515960/#msg5515960I'm sorry to say, but you're inability to see the warnings in the responses we give, kinda proves the point that you are way in over your head.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 05:43:56 pm
content: even posted herehttps://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/members/max-holdcroft.984775/#latest-activity

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 06:18:05 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 27, 2024, 05:43:56 pmWhat is it "too lazy to do his own proper research" or "I want it quick and I want it now" mentality.And then bitch about not getting useful answers.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 12:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 27, 2024, 05:43:56 pmWhy are you like cyber stalking me to other platforms man. This was never in the discussion why are you being weird?

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 12:22:54 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 27, 2024, 06:18:05 pmDude what the fuck do you mean do my own research. I'm literally just posting questions in forums, it's not that deep. If you don't want to respond then just don't respond. I'm not being lazy by asking people who know more than me about the issues that I'm facing. I'm sorry I didn't learn about the entire field of electronics just for a hobby project. I'm sorry that I don't have time to do in depth research as a fucking 16 year old in high school. My bad for seeking out advice I guess.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 01:00:28 pm
content: You can do it in many different ways.In your case you are using this place like a part of a search engine.Keep in mind that others can visit many similar forums regularly, and may have been doing so for years, or more.For them your action may be seen something like a bot.Every time you get a forum answer a real, for now, person uses their time.They have decided to do so, so no problems there.But if you ask the same question around the net, you're disrespecting that time.It goes so that many are using their times without knowing that others have already answered.

author: Max Holdcroft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 01:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: m k on May 28, 2024, 01:00:28 pmAnd yet you have used this all valuable time to write out this message to me when it would have been quicker to just not respond. It's like 5 minutes out of peoples day, it's not going to kill them. And I'm not disrespecting their time because asking the same question in multiple places has gotten me wildly different, conflicting, and most of the time useful answers. So no, I don't think that what I'm doing is bad or unethical. Most people, in most forums, are more than happy to help beginners, it's mostly just this forum that is really cold and unforgiving to new people for some reason. Again, if people didn't want to help others they wouldn't spend their time answering questions on public forums, would they?

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 01:46:04 pm
content: Is helping you a priority?That's what happens when many are simultaneously answering your question.Other possibility is that many are simultaneously answering to many different questions.Step out and see how it looks from there.E,this is not personal.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 06:08:04 pm
content: Quote from: Max Holdcroft on May 28, 2024, 12:22:54 pmWhat I mean is that you should learn to think for yourself, and get a grasp on basic principles. Like what comes to mind when faced with the term anchor. What is an anchor used for should spring up. Ah yes it is used to anchor a boat to a river or a sea bed. So what could an anchor mean for a connector, oh maybe it is used to fix it firmly to the PCB.But to me it seems nowadays that the mentality is "oh just ask the question on a forum" instead of using ones own brain. And that is not what I call research. Research is what we did when young. Go to the library and read books on a subject, study the material at hand. Think about what it all means.And yes maybe this forum is cold in your eyes, but it for sure is quite serious in most cases. Much higher chance in getting proper useful answers due to a lot of highly experienced members here. But go back and read you own responses to answers given. It seems to be a bit in the trend of "I don't understand this, can you explain it again" on things that are not that hard to grasp. So that is why I say that you are out of your depth with this project and should give it up to save yourself the headaches it might bring. And I'm not alone to think that.Further more we are not your friends so reserve your "Dude" for them. And being 16 and in high school is no excuse for not doing the work. I never had more time to spend on hobbies then when I was in school. (Apart from now that I'm retired that is.) Enjoy that time while you can.

author: Retirednerd2020
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 12:03:00 am
content: I have read through much of this and understand the OP's enthusiasm to just jump in head-first and get to the finish line. At 16 I was much smarter than I am now, or at least that is what I thought. I've since learned many answers to things I didn't even know were questions when I started.I'm afraid that is where you find yourself and you have to reset your expectations if you want to be successful. About the only starting resource I had back then were some training manuals found at our local dump from "Cleveland Institute of Electronics". I had few other resources in the small town I am from but I think it was actually an advantage to learning. The WWW is vast and tends to make everything look simple to do. Electronics is far from simple.Here is what I suggest (as have others)Stop your project and learn basic electronics first. Start with the basic basics and go from there. Don't be in such a hurry. I understand it is not as fun but it is necessary if you have a hope to succeed (at anything!).Does your school teach basic electronics or have a maker class or similar? Are there local resources where you can find a mentor to work with you a little?Work on a couple of simple projects on breadboards maybe. You will need a cheap DMM to work with and batteries/power supplies. Start playing with resistors, capacitors, transistors (bipolar, fets) , 555 timer maybe? Don't bite off microcontrollers or other complex devices right from the start. Otherwise you might get very discouraged and quit.Please take the advice you got here. Most was helpful some was a bit impatient but just the same there were nuggets to harvest even from those that were short with you.Best of luck. Maybe study voltage, current, power, ohm's law and basic electronic components (resistors, capacitors, inductors, fuses...), start a thread on some of that if you need help.