Ersa vs Hakko soldering stations and a question on "anti-static" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2013, 02:11:13 pm
content: The much recommended Hakko FX888 soldering station is roughly twice the price in the UK as it is in the US so it costs about the same as lower end Ersa stations.I have read the earlier thread on the Ersa stations but it is quite old now so I thought I'd start a new thread.In the UK the only supplier of Hakko is Dancap (as far as I know).The Hakko FX888 is £106 inc VAT (plus postage) and the FX888D is £118:78 say £120 inc VAT (plus postage)The Conrad price for the Ersa i-Con pico is £115The Ersa analog 60 is £150and the Ersa analog 60A (the anti-static version) is £179How do people rate these irons?Does the fact that ERSA does special anti-static versions mean that the cheaper non-antistatic versions don't have grounded tips or is it that the anti-static versions allow a high impedance connection to ground? (It is a bit hard to tell from the literature on Ersa's web site.) How does this compare with the Hakko which has a grounded tip (2 ohms to ground)? Does it make a significant difference when soldering sensitive components for prototypes and other hobby activity (as apposed to production soldering which is probably carried out in an oven anyway)?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2013, 04:36:15 pm
content: If I had to choose between JBC, Weller, Ayoue or Ersa I will choose Ersa. The tips are the best to work with and are easy to change quickly. Do yourself a favour and also buy several different tips.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2013, 06:21:29 pm
content: Thanks. It sounds like Ersa are good - but then people say Hakko is good.The problem is that they seem to sell into different markets so few people have experience of both. Hakko is an obvious choice in the US where it is cheap. In Europe Hakko isn't readily available and is more expensive than Ersa so Ersa is the obvious choice.Here in the UK we're in between, Hakko is much more expensive than in the US but still a little cheaper than Ersa. I guess the good thing is that which ever I choose is likely to be a good iron, certainly a lot better than my rather feeble 25W Antex!

author: Telstar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2013, 07:25:30 pm
content: The pico is the entry level Ersa model. The shape of the pen is great (similar to my jbc), but the tips are not as durable as the nano and upper models. Also, like the cheapest weller (the orange ones) they are made in china.The uk hakko prices are the best in Europe so not that bad really.If you can stretch your budget at least to the ersa nano, that would be better.Otherwise go for the hakko.You could also consider used JBC and Metcal that sometimes pop on epay.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2013, 09:16:12 pm
content: The miniature irons are unsuitable for anything serious. With Ersa I'd get at least an RDS80 (80W) station.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2013, 11:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 09, 2013, 09:16:12 pmBoth the i-Con pico and the i-Con nano are also rated at 80W though the irons are pretty miniature.Quote from: Telstar on March 09, 2013, 07:25:30 pmMy understanding from a few e-mail exchanges with Ersa is that the i-Con pico uses exactly the same series of tips as the i-Con nano. But they also told me that the pico is not earthed and this put me off it, if I'm spending a fair amount of money on an iron (£100 to £200) I want it to be ESD safe.I've narrowed my choice down to either the Hakko 888D with a couple of extra tips for just under £150 (inc VAT and carriage) or the Ersa i-Con nano with a couple of extra tips for a bit under £200 (inc VAT and carriage).As far as I can see it the advantages of the i-Con nano (over the Hakko 888D) are a faster heat-up time (9secs vs about 40secs - though I'm not sure I'm comparing like with like), a more flexible cable, a smaller and neater iron and a slightly more substantial/professional appearance (a matter of personal taste) also the display is a little clearer in that it displays two sets of digits for temp - but none of the advantages are very significant so I'm not sure they are worth £50 (or 33%).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 02:18:03 am
content: Quote from: jpb on March 09, 2013, 11:09:14 pmI see now they have a whole range of (big) tips available as well. My mistake. My past experience with small low power soldering irons has not been very good. If it the iCon pico/nano can deliver 80W then they should work OK. Anyway, before buying I'd check whether those tips are readily available and what they cost. The tip holder system Ersa uses on the iron which comes with the RDS80 is probably 30 years old so tips for those are widely available.

author: img
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 05:41:04 pm
content: How much are the tips for your Ersa?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 07:04:39 pm
content: Have you checked out the Hakko FX-951 at all?If I'm reading Dancap's price list correctly, it's 180GBP (179.98 typed as 179-98). Assuming this is the case, it has newer heating technology neither the FX-888D or Ersa i-Con nano (from what I can tell), = heating element + sensor are located in the tip. Tips don't seem to be horribly expensive either, as basic tip profiles (T15 series) run 10.95GBP, with some being more expensive (19.44GBP is the most expensive on Dancap's price list).Bit cheaper than the Ersa, and is worth a look IMHO. Only potential issue I can think of, is it's appearance vs. the Ersa (Hakko looks more like it was designed by a toy company, such as Fischer Price).FX-951http://www.dancap.co.uk/soldering/fx951.htmlLink to price list is at the top of the page.

author: img
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 07:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 10, 2013, 07:04:39 pmThe actual price one ends up paying to Dancap is as follows: (179.98+10 'shipping')x 1.2 'plus 20% tax'=227.98

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 08:18:32 pm
content: Quote from: img on March 10, 2013, 05:41:04 pmI usually buy them from Farnell (aka Element 14). IIRC prices are about € 10,- to € 15,- excluding VAT but since Ersa tips aren't expandables like the tips from other brands it is money well spend.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 09:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: img on March 10, 2013, 07:54:12 pmI didn't realize they tax the shipping fees too.Still, might be worth the additional ~30GBP.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 09:33:27 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 10, 2013, 08:18:32 pmBuying the i-Con nano in the UK is cheaper from the importer -http://www.blundell.co.uk/(they are Ersa's official distributer - I got their name from Ersa who are very helpful)their price for the nano is £137 + £15 carriage + VAT which comes to £182:40 while Farnell want £210 plus shipping for the UK plug version and even more for the Euro plug version.Conrad-UK sell the nano, mislabelled as a i-CON 1 for some reason, for £215:99 plus carriage (which I think is free).Blundell's price for the tips that I asked about was £6:25 plus VAT the standard 1.6mm chisel tip is £6:10 plus VAT (+£7:50 carriage + VAT if ordered separately from the iron).The Farnel price for the standard tip is £6:95 plus VAT (i.e. 85p + VAT more).

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 09:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 10, 2013, 09:28:24 pmI did look at it, but given that I started looking at the basic 888 with an overall price of £120, creeping up to £230 is almost doubling things - this is without extra tips - the i-CON nano is £182 without extra tips so the prices go roughly Hakko 888/D £120/£130 i-CON nano £182, Hakko 925 £230 so there is a £50 step with each upgrade.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 09:53:23 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 10, 2013, 07:04:39 pmThe i-Con series also measures the temperature at the tip according to an e-mail I received from Ersa :"Our i-CON generation is precisely temperature controlled by a TC sensing the tip temperature in front of the heater."

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 10:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on March 10, 2013, 09:39:29 pmTrue, but keep in mind, the FX-951 is a different animal from either the FX-888/D or the Ersa due to the heating technology being used (traditional element in the iron for the FX-888 or Ersas vs. located in the tip on the FX-951, which is closer to JBC or the highest end Weller products for example <specific differences, such as the heating element = sensor in JBC, where as they're seperate in the Weller and Hakko, but still in the tip).It seemed to me, that the additional ~30GBP might be worth it vs. the Ersa you're looking at.As per tips, Hakko's are top notch, and will last you a very long time, particularly if you stick to lead based solder (and you really don't need that many profiles; just a few chisels will get you a long way, including drag soldering if you get into a lot of IC's).Just a thought anyway.Quote from: jpb on March 10, 2013, 09:53:23 pmInteresting, but a bit vague as to how I'm reading it (multiple interpretations). I say that, as even the Weller I have would follow the quote from Ersa, but it's a traditional setup (TC & heating element are in the iron, not the tip). Works well, but there's a greater offset between the regulated temp and the actual tip temp due to the distance and mass of the tip itself than if everything was part of the tip itself (TC & element closer to the thermal transfer point when making a joint).I'll take a look, as the tips I recall for Ersa's where just metal (slide over the heating element & TC <fixed in the iron itself>, and are held in place by a spring).Regardless, any of these will be far better than an unregulated/non-temp controlled fire stick you can find in RS, but between the stations mentioned here, the differences can make one nicer to use than another.Also good quality solder, flux, and wick make a huge difference as well, so don't get a great station, and then by no-name chinese crap for supplies. Bit more expensive, but you'll get better results and fewer headaches IMHO.

author: img
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 10:14:21 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on March 10, 2013, 09:53:23 pmIt would be odd if they said that their product was no good, wouldn't it?Dunno, I personally would get the 888 and get soldering ASAP. I've got a 888, and for some reason use it on everyday stuff more than the Pace or the JBC. It's like pens: we might have a Parker somewhere, but for most of the time the clear BIC pens get the workout.But nanofrog has a good point too. It's just that if you don't solder a lot, you may not really get your money's worth by buying an more expensive item. That brings us to a question: how much do you solder?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 10:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: img on March 10, 2013, 10:14:21 pmExcellent point, that I may have assumed too much on the OP's long-term interest/intent.I'm the type that prefers to get a good tool, and run it until it's no longer repairable/usable (i.e. tips & spare parts aren't made anymore). Cheaper this way in the long run in my experience.My mention of the FX-951, is that it seems to offer a LOT of value for the money, as when compared to say JBC or Weller using the same heating technology, it's ~ half the price (at least here in the US).

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2013, 11:47:46 pm
content: Thanks for all the advice everyone.I'm just in the process of setting up my electronics lab at home. I have a degree in electronics and spent many years doing semiconductor research on microwave integrated circuits and devices (GaAs) but very little practical electronics in the sense of circuits on boards. I now do research in computer science but want to experiment with electronics at home so hope to do quite a bit of soldering (rekindle some of the fun that led me to take a degree electronics in the first place and also keep my electronics more up-to-date).I want a good quality iron which is ESD safe and pleasant to use but I don't need a super industrial tool. The Hakko 888 to i-CON nano range seems to be about the right level.One possible advantage of the Ersa is future supply in the UK might be easier. Dancap is very responsive and it has been dealing in Hakko quite a while I think but it is the only source in the UK and if it went away it might be more difficult to get future supplies. Ersa being German has many European distributers and can be got from Conrad, Farnel etc. Though I guess Hakko tips could easily be bought off e-bay anyway though other spare parts would be more difficult.

author: img
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 07:55:19 am
content: Quote from: jpb on March 10, 2013, 11:47:46 pmWhat are the soldering stations you've had so far, by the way?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 01:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: img on March 12, 2013, 07:55:19 amI haven't. I've just used a couple of Antex irons which are really too under-powered in these days of lead-free solder.I finally decided yesterday to go with the Ersa i-CON nano over the Hakko 888D despite the higher price.My reasons were :1.) Appearance and build - the Hakko is a fun shape but looks a bit plasticky even on the stand which I understand is painted metal. The Ersa looks pretty solid.Both are nice and compact.2.) Heating technology - the Ersa has the sensor at the end of the heating element near the point of the tip and heats up in 9 seconds, the Hakko is a bit slower (closer to a minuteI understand) and I don't think the sensor is as near the iron tip (though I may be wrong on that).3.) I like the fact that you can see both the target and actual temperature on the Ersa display. The Hakko can only show one or the other (though it does have an LED to show when it is at temperature I think).4.) I was impressed with the willingness of the Ersa guy to respond to my e-mails and the detail he went into even though I was just buying a low-end station as an individual and not a big company purchasing a new assembly line. To be fair, Dancap responded promptly to my e-mails and I didn't try e-mailing Hakko direct, but I've recently had some bad experiences e-mailing a couple of Japanese companies (Iwatsu and Advantest) neither of whom responded at all.5.) Hakko only have one agent in the UK and in Europe I only know of one in Holland and each agent is restricted to their own country. Ersa should give me more choice of supplier in future. (This is not a major consideration as Dancap have been in business supplying Hakko to the UK for years so I don't think they are likely to go away.)All in all it was a very difficult decision but as they are both good irons (from what people report) I perhaps should have just tossed a coin.

author: Telstar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 02:12:31 pm
content: I think you made a good choice, especially points 2, 4 and 5.Please inform us how the station will behaveand some pics too maybe

author: img
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2013, 10:08:43 am
content: Congratulations on the purchase!I hope you have a great time with your new toy......and don't forget to throw us a picture-party when the Ersa arrives.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 09:59:44 am
content: My Ersa was supposed to be delivered yesterday, I'd arranged for someone to be in all day to sign for it - TNT report delivery at the destination depot at 5:45 am and then they didn't deliver it because of "time constraint"!!!!It's out for delivery today but they hadn't done so by 9:30am so no one will be in to sign for itSo it might be days before I get it - I'm developing a strong dislike for TNT couriers - mind you most couriers seem to be pretty bad, parcel force offer a better service in my part of the world at least.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 11:25:15 am
content: Did you look outside? In some parts of Europe its pretty bad. I ordered something from the UK but that got delayed as well.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 12:04:11 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 14, 2013, 11:25:15 amTo be fair to TNT there has been some bad weather, but I had no problem getting to work and they had no problem getting it to the local depot - they just didn't deliver it from there.It is out for delivery today but of course there will be no one to receive it so it will just go back to the depot and we'll have to start again!I should have arranged to have it delivered to my work but they normally like to deliver to the same address as the credit card is registered at.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 06:31:48 pm
content: For a second day in a row TNT failed to deliver my shiny new Ersa i-Con nano - the reason "time constraint"!!!Will they deliver tomorrow?? Will they deliver ever??? This "delivery" cost me £15+VAT i.e. £18.Sorry to vent my frustration, it has nothing to do with this forum really except to serve as a warning to others who might have their electronic goodies delivered by TNT.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 07:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on March 14, 2013, 06:31:48 pmIs it possible to contact TNT and arrange a pickup at the depot?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 10:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 14, 2013, 07:12:18 pmIt might be, but the depot is down in Stansted airport which is about 45 minutes drive each way at least. I'm reluctant to do that after paying £18 for them to deliver it to me.(I have done that in the past with other couriers who have depots much nearer to where I live.)If they don't deliver it tomorrow I'll probably ring them up and tell them to just return it and get my money back and go for the Hakko instead!I can't believe how bad their service is. If I order something off Amazon it is free delivery and arrives in a day or two normally via parcelforce. Here I've been charged£18 for the delivery and they aren't delivering it because they've not employed enough drivers or vans to actually deliver the parcels that they've charged large fees to peopleto deliver. Many people have to make special arrangements to be at home to receive parcels and to simply not turn up two days in a row...Sorry, I'll stop ranting.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 02:08:02 am
content: Quote from: jpb on March 14, 2013, 10:01:57 pmI can understand the frustration.Very inconvenient to take time off just to sign for a package (messes with meeting deadlines, which can make an employer rather upset).Perhaps you could speak with them over the phone, and see if they'll leave it without you being there (may need to write a letter of consent; worked for me a few times). Or if they'd accept an alternate delivery address (work).I'd think the potential of working it out with TNT would be preferable to the hassle involved with a return, particularly since you won't be able to afix an RMA number to it.Just a thought anyway.Regardless, I wish you luck, whatever you have to do to sort it.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 07:50:49 pm
content: Well it finally arrivedI've not plugged it in or turned it on - but it is nicely built and substantial though compact and the iron is a very nice size (like a large fountain pen).I'll try and attach photos (this went wrong on my first attempt).Edit: I've now turned it on. It heats up fast, slightly overshooting (target 360, overshoots to 380 and then settles down to 360 over perhaps 10 to 20 seconds).Melts solder nicely. I'm pleased with it.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 11:10:10 pm
content: Glad you got it, and you're happy with it.By chance could you take some close-ups of the tips (looking to see if it has electrical connections, or just slips over a heating element)? TIA.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 11:19:32 pm
content: There are no electrical connections.The sensor I guess is in the end of the heating element which is shrouded by the bit and fairly close to the tip.It is too dark in the tip itself to show the depth but you can get an idea from the photos.

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 11:25:50 pm
content: Pen, tips, tray look great. Main unit design very nice. Best form factor separates. Does the pen feel light? Does it get any noticeably hot to grip? Is there a sleep mode when put to rest by some motion detector in the pen? I.e. does the display go down in temp after you rest the pen for a while?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2013, 03:50:02 pm
content: Quote from: Salas on March 15, 2013, 11:25:50 pmThe pen is very light and in my very brief try it didn't get hot at all. The review at JeeLabs is based on more use :http://jeelabs.org/2010/06/08/smd-hand-soldering-tools/There is a sleep mode but it is based on time not on whether or not the iron is in the stand - there isn't any switch activated by the stand. You can set the length of time out as well as other thingssuch as the heating profile (whether there is over-shoot or not) in a separate (free) software program (I understand). The settings are transferred to thesolder station via the micro-SD slot on the left. I've not tried this out yet.

author: Telstar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2013, 04:57:30 pm
content: Looks pretty good, tnx for pictures.

author: img
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2013, 08:55:14 am
content: Did you solder anything with it so far? How is it in action?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2013, 09:33:24 am
content: Quote from: img on April 10, 2013, 08:55:14 amI've done quite a bit of soldering of through hole components, i.e. no SMD stuff. It works very well, it is nice just to be able to turn it on and its ready for use within seconds. It's a bit difficult for me to give an accurate account as it is the first good soldering iron I've used, though my previous Antex was ok but not temperature controlled.The one thing I keep doing is tangling up the cord - soldering irons seem to be like telephone hand sets, no matter how often you detangle the cord it always seems to tangle itself again after a few uses - but that is not a fault with the soldering iron, just the way I use it.The iron is very light and the handle stays cool so I'm pleased with it.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2013, 07:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on April 10, 2013, 09:33:24 amGood to hear.Enjoy.

author: WladekSupron
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 11:45:34 am
content: I would like to buy a soldering station. I try to choose between ERSA ANALOG 60, I-CON NANO and PACE ST-25. I would like soldering station for hobby. Why does ERSA still sell ANALOG 60/60A if they heat up so long compared to the I-CON NANO ? What is the main advantage of ANALOG 60 to buy it ?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 11:57:14 am
content: Quote from: WladekSupron on November 26, 2017, 11:45:34 amProbably someone still buys analog 60 to keep factory equipment the same and keep using one tip system. It does not have any advantage over nano.

author: WladekSupron
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 12:07:15 pm
content: If you use ERSA ANALOG 60 or 60A, please, tell me your opinion. Do you have some problem due to long heat-up or maybe it's not essential ?Additionally, I've heard about ERSA I-CON NANO, that there is a problem with plastic nut to fix a tip to the soldering iron. As time goes by, this nut is destroyed.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 12:09:30 pm
content: Quote from: WladekSupron on November 26, 2017, 12:07:15 pmIt's not true at all. And even if it was, tip holder costs around EUR 3.5

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 01:16:50 pm
content: I have an Analog60 and find the heat up time is quite acceptable - 30 sec or so, but varies with the size of tip.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2017, 07:40:21 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 26, 2017, 12:09:30 pmDefinitely agree. The Nano looks to use the same tips and nuts as the i-Con 1 that I own. I have many years use on my iron and it is still on the original tips and holders, which still look and work almost like new. No worries with the threads wearing out. I would imagine anyone who has that issue tightens the tips like a 400 pound gorilla.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2017, 12:50:18 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on November 27, 2017, 07:40:21 amI'm wondering if the question/confusion is actually based on the Pico. Specifically the fact it uses plastic threads on the heating element rather metal as is the case with the Nano or i-Con 1 and larger.IIRC, there's been some complaints on the Pico over this issue (not using pliers or handing it like a Gorilla).