New Hioki Multimeer and first project - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 02:08:09 pm
content: deleted

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 03:04:22 pm
content: Looks good!Very interesting multimeter, are you going to be doing a mini review/teardown?

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 03:52:37 pm
content: One thing that's strange with these Hiokis, is how they put a big LCD screen on them, but then the readings only use a fraction of it. They look interesting though.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 04:40:15 pm
content: Quote from: Muxr on August 20, 2015, 03:52:37 pmIf you look at their brochure athttps://www.hioki.com/filedownload/series_DT4200E5-55M.pdf?t=catalog&iid=1_1257you will see that the lcd screen is split into almost 33% each. The top shows the status of the multimeter, the middle shows the main reading, and the bottom shows the secondary reading.I remember seeing another Hioki piece of literature that said they make their own multimeter chipset. Right now, I can't find it, but if correct, Hioki and Brymen are the only two to do so. Most other companies use off the shelf chipsets from Fortune, Cyrustek, etc.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 04:47:19 pm
content: Nice picP.S. Those resistors are not 0.05ppm TCR, they are more like ~1ppm usually.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 08:38:27 pm
content: TAKE IT APART! TEARDOWN! I WANNA SEE SHE NAKED!

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 09:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on August 20, 2015, 04:40:15 pmFound it.http://www.testequity.com/documents/pdf/hioki/DT4200-series.pdf

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 10:28:02 pm
content: QuoteHow many people do a teardown on a $500 meter? Does even Dave do that?Maybe someone should do a $500 meter shoot out testhint hint Dave

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 10:33:22 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 20, 2015, 10:28:02 pmHuh, have you seen Dave's videos? Dave has taken apart the Fluke 28 II, Gossen Metrahit Energy Multimeter Teardown, Keithley DMM7510 just to name a few.Martin takes apart his Fluke 289 on his channel.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 10:45:48 pm
content: http://www.amazon.com/Dranetz-Metrawatt-M249AKIT1-Multimeter-Measurement/dp/B00E3Y60TYHoly cow - how about a drop testProbably designed for the Mars mission.I was thinking $500 handheld tear downs and you showed that Dave did 2. I am sure 2 more than anyone else.tks

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 11:52:33 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on August 20, 2015, 09:53:42 pmDo they use the same ASIC for all their DMMs? It would be interesting to know it.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 11:55:01 pm
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on August 20, 2015, 11:52:33 pmNo. On their lower end models, they use off the shelf chipsets from the vendors I mentioned.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 11:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on August 20, 2015, 08:38:27 pmThe DT4281 has already been taken apart.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4281-multimeter-teardown-and-first-impression/

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 12:09:49 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on August 20, 2015, 11:55:01 pmCheeky to read that part, sorry.Can you release what models and chips? Please...

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 12:14:11 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on August 21, 2015, 12:09:49 amAs their brochure shows, their chipset is on the DT4280, 4250 and 4220 series.On the DT4525, you can see the Hioki chip in this teardownhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4252-teardown/In the 4210 series, seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-42114212-quality/

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 12:29:17 pm
content: Hioki makes good meters but the early teardowns on this forum are puzzling.Its been several years since earlier DMMs in that Hioki series were released and I still cannot find a mention of any NRTL safety testing mark beyond Hioki's own "CE." Does anyone here know it exists?Back in 2013, a teardown was done and this is how the DT4252 input stage appears, the COM [center terminal] and 10A input [ lower right] traces are a bit close for creepage comfort.The designers were aware of the risk and gave due creepage and clearance of V input [ left most jack] from commons, center terminal.You can easily follow the tracing to the fuse, and note the other end of the fuse is close to the 10A input jack and the tracings are very close to each other, almost shorting across the fuse.Granted, this is a low impedance path if the fuse is working, but if the fuse blows and the circuit involved high enough voltage, you'd have the same concerns that keep the V input and COM terminal clearance separated as they already did.Only final NRTL testing can tell for sure. Hioki could use a special PCB chemistry or conformal caot to provide high insulation.In the DT4281 PCB, a similar issue is present. One can see the traces on the PCB for each input jack.Compare to the traces of NRTL marked meters, the Keysight 1271a and the 87V, you can see how wide the distances are between terminals and better yet, they are cut out for the blast shield to improve isolation.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 04:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on August 20, 2015, 11:57:16 pmI know, but I'd like to see further details on this DMM, looks very very good!Quote from: retiredcaps on August 20, 2015, 09:53:42 pmProbably they partnership with someone, like the ADC in Fluke 87V28II and 117 (I believe 177/179 as well), its made by Linear Tech, probably its a boosted version of a regular product. The old Fluke 8020 used a faster version of the classic Intersil ICL710x series.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 08:53:47 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on August 21, 2015, 04:09:41 pmIt would be interesting to know that. Are there some not so difficult way to reverse engineer the IC and compare it with others?

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 10:15:54 pm
content: Guys from ifixit.com make regular teardowns from many apple and samsung products, they even have a partnership with a company call chipworks, who is specialized in reverse engineering.If you send your cool hioki for a destructive test and pay some grands I'm sure they'll be very precise telling what's inside..

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 12:21:24 am
content: chipworks guys have been around for a long time, they do investigative patent work.. Many years ago I remember them doing decapping and microscope shots of various newly released x86 chips. This was back in the day when x86 was interesting, when Cyrix, AMD, NexGen were competitive to Intel.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 01:50:55 am
content: Quote from: rvalente on August 21, 2015, 04:09:41 pmNot quite.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/history-of-the-fluke-8020-series/