Looking for recommendations on a DMM with 2KV range. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2021, 12:22:10 pm
content: Looking for recommendations on a DMM with 2KV DC/AC range. 3.5 digits is fine. Something under $200USD would be great. Don't mind if it's used.Thanks!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2021, 02:17:55 pm
content: Make a 100:1 voltage divider and use a DMM with a 20V range :-)

author: Cymaphore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2021, 04:45:15 pm
content: APPA S3BENNING MM 10-PVMETRAVI PRO Solar-1RS PRO S3Sefram 7223

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2021, 05:17:10 pm
content: I'm not aware of any low cost ones that can measure 2KV DC/AC. I have no idea what you are trying to measure, but assuming it is low energy CATI, sub kHz sources, there are some high voltage meters available that would cover these ranges. A basic off the shelf probe may be fine.As Fungus suggests, you could also consider making a homemade attenuator that could be used with any DMM. I've made a few of these and put together a video showing the last one I made. Video gives you some idea about different circuits that could be used and the math to calculate the values.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2021, 04:44:54 pm
content: AVO not a DMM of course - but saw today (on a well know internet auction site) with 3kv Vdc and 3kv Vac in put terminal, at a very low price.See attached - my old AVO - not for sale yet

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2021, 05:38:40 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on August 11, 2021, 12:22:10 pmThe tricky part with voltage dividers is the AC.If this is low-energy applications only, you can get 1000x voltage probes but they typically are DC or DC/50-60Hz AC only and require a 10M input impedance. If you don't actually need digital, the older Simpson 260/270 series go to 5000V DC and AC. If you are measuring AC with anything more than powerline frequencies, perhaps a 100X probe and a scope would be a better choice. I have the P2301C type you find on eBay and have used it for 2kVRMS@ 20kHz without any plasma or sparks. Not sure I'd push it much futher...As for exactly what you are asking for in a modern DMM, the APPA and similar ones posted by Cymaphore seem to go to 2000VDC but a lower AC voltage and they refer to 'PV measurements'. I'm not sure how safe they actually are for that purpose, but if you are using them in a low energy application and can live with the AC limitations, they might be OK. They also seem to not have a high input impedance and frankly reading the spec sheet makes me nervous. They might be a good subject for a teardown review.Here's what I use for the occasional HV measurement:https://www.tequipment.net/CalTestCT2700.html?rrec=truehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/313247240732?hash=item48eefd921c:g:YQgAAOSwD6hffMP2https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32352684108.htmlI've had that Simpson 270 all the way to 5000VAC measuring the output of a hi-pot tester. Works as advertised!

author: Cymaphore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2021, 09:17:37 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on August 12, 2021, 05:38:40 pmTechnically, the S3 based devices (posted all brands known to me) are a qualified system with optimized probes for the task.With the 2kV probe you get a fully qualified system, no fiddling. It's a CAT IV meter with matching 2kV adapter designed for field usage and automatic translation of the readings (voltage divider most likely).Maybe that is what jwalling was looking for, maybe not. I don't know his or her application, so just pointing to something I know that could maybe do the trick for the task at hand.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2021, 08:54:31 am
content: "Cleqee P4250" on Aliexpress is not expensive and keeps 2 kV. I checked. Accuracy corresponds to the declared. It's not expensive. But perhaps there will be problems with AC. Only DC.Do not take the P2301C they have a very large coefficient of resistance to voltage.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2021, 07:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on August 13, 2021, 08:54:31 amCan you tell me how this is observed and how much it is? I haven't really characterized mine since I generally don't need the precision, but if it is a gross error I should have a look.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2021, 02:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on August 13, 2021, 07:10:06 pmhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_AlMdHqI don't remember what exactly I didn't like. there is only one photo left. resistance is 10% less than stated. In my opinion, it depended on the voltage. The divisor error is greater than 1%. I'll try to find more photos.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2021, 02:43:34 pm
content: I found my dispute on Ali. 1kV 106 MOhm. 5kV 90 MOhm. And a large error in the output voltage.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2021, 02:59:23 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on August 14, 2021, 02:43:34 pmGood to know. I don't have an accurate way to characterize it at 5kV and so I'll never know, but I'll make sure not to rely on it for any sort of precision. The best I can do is verify that my error is less than 3% at 1kV/1kHz. You tested the other model you listed and found it to be better?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2021, 03:12:16 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on August 14, 2021, 02:59:23 pmYes, I checked the second model and it fully matches the datasheet up to 2 kV.Perhaps I just had no luck with the 5 kV model and it is defective.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2021, 05:06:22 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on August 11, 2021, 12:22:10 pmYou'll want an HV probe anyway, which is going to be at least 100:1 if not 1000:1. I'm not aware of any DMM that supports that kind of direct input voltage.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2021, 09:34:36 am
content: The links to the DMMs that Cymaphore posted look interesting, but they don't seem to be readily available in the US.I think I'll just buy a dedicated HV probe, even though they're pretty clunky. It is a low energy application...Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2021, 12:41:31 pm
content: I don't think it has been mentioned in this thread yet, but you have to watch out for DMMs that don't have a 10M input impedance when you are using the typical 1000X DMM HV probe like the Cal-Test one I linked. Many DMMs don't have exactly 10M on some or all ranges and that give you a scaling error.

author: testpoint1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2021, 10:17:32 pm
content: buy a used Fluke 87V and 80K-6 HV proble, 200 USD is enough

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2021, 01:43:03 am
content: FYI, I saw these Fluke 27 package deals on ebay. Apologies if they might have been mentioned elsewhere but it seems like a good deal for ~$150:https://www.ebay.com/itm/254862099953https://www.ebay.com/itm/393470529058Three Fluke probes included: 6kV, 40kV and high frequency (30Vrms).Be aware these specific Fluke 27s are not True-RMS and the high frequency probe converts AC to DC (RMS of sine wave). The 80K-6 probe is good up through 1kHz but the 80K-40 only has a stated accuracy at 60Hz.Fluke 27 Users Manual:https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/27______umeng0200.pdfFluke 80K-6 Instruction Sheet:https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/80k6____iseng0600.pdfFluke 80K-40 Instruction Sheet:https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/80k40___iseng0900.pdfFluke 85RF Instruction Sheet:https://dam-assets.fluke.com/s3fs-public/85rf____iseng0600.pdf

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2021, 02:52:51 am
content: That's a fantastic deal and and they'll be gone soon.The 80K-40 is 50/60Hz only on AC and is highly dependent on the DMM having exactly a 10M input impedance.The 80K-6 is a 75M input 1000X divider and will still be fairly accurate with meters other than 10M, since it's combined target for the lower part of the divider will be 75K. Using a 1M input meter on AC will give you a 6% error or so.A brand new Fluke 27AN in a case--wow!

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2021, 05:20:51 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on August 18, 2021, 02:52:51 amI missed the frequency part, post edited. I see it only states 60Hz.For the 80K-6 Fluke has "Figure 1. 80K-6 Schematic Diagram".For the 80K-40 they have "Figure 1. 80K-40 Simplified Circuit Diagram".I'm curious what the actual frequency range would be of the 80K-40?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2021, 04:34:23 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on August 18, 2021, 01:43:03 amWell, yeah, because all Fluke 27’s are average-responding. The true-RMS version is the Fluke 28 [Edit: and some 27FM’s, see replies].

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2021, 05:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 18, 2021, 04:34:23 pmFluke 27FM is TRMS.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2021, 05:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on August 18, 2021, 05:20:51 amProbably very terrible, similar to the Cal-Test and BK Precision 40kV probe. I just tested mine and using a calibrator putting out 1000 volts, the BK PR-28 probe and a Fluke 189 I got:50Hz: +4.0%60Hz +3.7%400Hz -15%1kHz -35%I once tried to 'improve' the performance of an old Beckman HV probe of the same type by fiddling with the lower end of the divider (capacitance and resistance adjustments) and it was no bueno. These cheap (relatively, and Fluke included) HV probes just don't have the stability.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2021, 08:30:27 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on August 18, 2021, 05:26:19 pmSee Dave's video on the Fluke 27 for details on the True-RMS version:Skip to about the 5 minute mark.Basically it has to state "FM" on the front in order to have True-RMS, despite any FM labels on the back. Lots of the 27/FM on ebay if someone really wanted one.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2021, 09:03:51 am
content: Inside the Fluke 27/FM:Captures of the Fluke 27/FM PCB and the refreshed Fluke 27 PCB from the videos showing the extra RMS chip:

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2021, 10:37:23 am
content: There are some DC Voltmeter for up to 5kV that I am aware of but not for AC.And the high voltage DC meters also use a voltage divider.Here is a picture of my 5kV meter from ETS.