Is Keysight changing colours? Beige to Black? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2016, 10:45:25 pm
content: I just noticed Keysight quietly launched the N6705C - apparently an updated model of the N6705 (a/b) series (my) dream power supply(http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2747858-pn-N6705C/dc-power-analyzer-modular-600-w-4-slots?nid=-35714.1195294.00&cc=GB&lc=eng)But it is BLACK?And then I noticed the new N9020B MXA Signal analyzer - and that is black too? (http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-2642774-pn-N9020B/mxa-signal-analyzer-multi-touch-10-hz-to-265-ghz?cc=US&lc=eng)That is black too?Whats up with all the black? It is a favorite colour to show off when you last dusted your lab and usually LeCroy does "Back in Black" - but Keysight? I do know the red Keysight colour stand out more on a black background but...Or do they want to be unnoticed when they enter a LeCroy only facility? (Engineers smuggling in Keysight without management noticing?...)Or is the future colour of Keysight all black...hmmm

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2016, 11:09:32 pm
content: Yes the new corporate color is black. They told that at a seminar i attended.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2016, 11:34:27 pm
content: Yes, they are switching over to black.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2016, 11:42:04 pm
content: Nooooooooooooo!Whenever I see those black Lecroy scopes, they just look WRONG!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2016, 11:47:45 pm
content: https://youtu.be/IIW9sL-Yf6Q?t=60

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 12:40:24 am
content: Can confirm the slow (but inevitable) shift to darker colors. It won't be straight black - there's some potential flexibility for the R&D teams.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 01:13:54 am
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on November 30, 2016, 12:40:24 amThe term "potential flexibility" just caused the branding team to have seizures.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 04:30:47 am
content: Great, now I gotta buy another scope (I love black test gear).

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 04:45:59 am
content: I like blackWhen is3458Black coming?

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 05:04:30 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 30, 2016, 01:13:54 amExcellent!

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 05:11:22 am
content: Quote from: TiN on November 30, 2016, 04:45:59 amI knew I forgot something. I will get that done this week.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 05:23:08 am
content: Is it the same black color as the U1272A front? I like it

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 05:48:04 am
content: meh, black, it's reserved for sound gear. What's next dials that go to 11

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 08:06:04 am
content: I assume the quality of plastics is the same, but the clear one looks like a cheap device.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 08:31:03 am
content: The background. colour is of interest but please get the text font size, style and contrast colour correct so it's easy to read. e.g. that power analyser the text over the SENSE and OUTPUT is too small IMHO. There is plenty of room on the front panel. Makes it a lot easier to make a silly mistake in use.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 01:50:19 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on November 30, 2016, 12:40:24 amI like the black, A LOT! That being said, the font changes that you guys made are really bad. The font size is clearly much smaller making it harder to read. See the comparison that Dave posted below:Quote from: EEVblog on November 30, 2016, 04:37:43 amIt is clear that much of the text is smaller (though I like the locations of some of the text better on the black one, the size is still an issue). While I still have perfect eyesight, I know many of our more esteemed members here do not.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:02:30 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 29, 2016, 11:42:04 pmTo me Lecroy look weird regardless of color... i wonder where they recruit their designers.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:04:05 pm
content: ... Do this mean we can expect black rubber holsters on handhelds?

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:24:53 pm
content: The problem with black is it is black. If you have a whole shelf of test gear above your bench, with light coloured front panels, you get scattered ambient illumination off them onto your work surface. Now paint them all black, and that ambient illumination goes. Makes it harder to see what you are working on as you only get direct illumination from the overhead lights, with less fill-in for the dark shadows.OK it's only a small difference - but it's a small difference in the wrong direction.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:38:04 pm
content: Companies that stop innovating and can't come up with new technical features, play around with other parameters to give the impression that they are actually doing meaningful stuff.Their product department starts playing around with the color of the housing and the font set.But they literally have no clue on what they are doing, select a depressive color, and use a font that is too small too read. But what do they care, they are not using the test equipment themselves, so don't mind that nobody can read the font, or that the equipment does not fit in existing test labs. As long as they give the impression to their managers that they are working and secure their monthly pay check, they feel happy. They don't even realize that they are doing the wrong things, because of lack of understanding.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:39:29 pm
content: Having worked for a big organization, my bets are this has nothing to do with search for better user experience but rather with some Executive who for some reason likes black color.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:44:53 pm
content: Maybe it's an attempt to further differentiate Keysight from Agilent? Just part of the Keysight rebranding?An attempt to be more distinguishable from Fluke?

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:52:31 pm
content: I'll wait for black 34465A thenBTW I wonder if changing to a black case would influence TC specs of precision equipment, as in theory it absorbs more radiation and gets warmer. I guess the effect is probably very minute, as there are other shields underneath the case.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 02:59:49 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on November 30, 2016, 02:44:53 pmAn attempt to be stupid, nothing more to look after the strategy.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 03:02:05 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on November 30, 2016, 02:59:49 pmI'm sure they have a rationale! Daniel?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 04:09:17 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on November 30, 2016, 02:59:49 pmI find it hard to imagine black test equipment that isn't painted in crackle finish,& with the General Radio logo attached.

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 04:34:59 pm
content: The ESI 242D looks better in black than the 242B. I think someone at ESI was an Arthur C. Clarke fan.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 05:13:27 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on November 30, 2016, 02:24:53 pmVery valid point.

author: ralphrmartin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 07:28:19 pm
content: Disaster. Unreadable for old duffers like me with poor eyesight. Stop this black nonsense before it is too late.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 07:42:58 pm
content: Will it be pink to attract female EEs next month? Or what about getting rid of all the switches and knobs by replacing them with a touchscreen?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 07:50:15 pm
content: Quote from: ralphrmartin on November 30, 2016, 07:28:19 pmSame goes for text editors (all busy changing to grey-on-black) and all those low-contrast websites.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 07:53:18 pm
content: hopefully the N6705C in black will become a failed experiment and Keysight will stay with the very well established and working colors.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 03:38:42 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on November 29, 2016, 10:45:25 pmYes, it's black. And not exactly well done I have to say. The new MXA has been discussed here some while ago.QuoteI guess someone in Keysight got bored and imagined that customers would like to see some new colors.QuoteYes, they do, however at least they do it right, with optical and haptic cues (like the silver rings on the knobs) that make operating their scopes even in an environment with insufficient lighting easy. Keysight however pretty much changed the color but clearly paid zero attention to any impact this has on usability/Human FactorsLeCroy also didn't change to black just for the sake of it, the black housing marked the introduction of the X-Stream II architecture which was kinda big deal.QuoteHardly, since LeCroy has very few other devices than scopes, and most labs will need more gear than just a scope so you won't find many LeCroy-only facilities.QuoteMy contacts say that unfortunately, yes, that seems to be the new corporate course.As someone who regularly purcases large amounts of Keysight gear I have to say I wish they would have focused on addressing some of the areas where Keysight should do better instead of this pointless color change, especially when it comes with so little consideration to usability. Because the housing color was one thing that didn't need any fixing.I'd have rather seen some real product improvements, like a DSOX replacement with 10+Mpts of memory and larger screens. Oh well.But hey, now that Keysight's future is dark maybe they should change their name accrdingly - KeyBlind?

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 04:49:15 pm
content: It's not black, it's "Equipment of Color."/PC Nonsense

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 04:58:32 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on December 01, 2016, 03:38:42 pmConsidering Keysight's snack bar budget is larger than Lecroy's yearly sales, I don't think it's Keysight that is going to disappear anytime soon.As far as the switch to black, it looks like Keysight copied the only "technological achievement" of Lecroy's worth imitating

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 05:51:51 pm
content: Keysight will go back to beige once they see the huge scrap and tooling change costs needed to make black plastics pass QC inspection. Black shows every flaw. It's a production nightmare. I've worked extensively with HP plastics in the past, and black is just a bear with HP's instrumentation group's quality criteria.As for the quality of the plastic, black is the physically strongest color in a resin besides uncolored natural resin. It takes an amazingingly small amount of pigment to create a deep, black color. Creating a lighter color, such as beige takes a lot of titanium dioxide, which results in a weaker plastic as compared to uncolored resin of the same grade.The black trend will go on for a bit, then it will go back to beige as a cost reduction measure. The folks currently in charge are likely just too new to know why beige was used to begin with.

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 08:20:56 pm
content: Changing name from HP to Agilent was a mistake. Getting used to it took years.Changing the name again to Keysight was next mistake. Who knows Keysight?Is changing color the last attempt before disappearing from market?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 09:28:37 pm
content: The world is not ending. Keysight is not failing. The instrumentation group are the only hard-core engineering innovators left from HP's glory days. Keysight stock is doing well and hopefully Keysight will continue that trend as they learn to stand on their own.Font and type size changes on overlays and printing cliches are cheap and easy to implement. Maybe Daniel will see the comments and convince the graphic designer to bump the type size up a notch.This branding change is not a big deal. Maybe KS will learn to stop worrying about nit picky cosmetic issues and be more pragmatic. It could happen.I actually like the improved contrast of the black background.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 09:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on December 01, 2016, 04:58:32 pmYou just couldn't help yourself, could you?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 09:35:04 pm
content: Well, that is ugly. I guess computers used to be beige. But not anymore.

author: plesa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 10:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on November 30, 2016, 12:40:24 amI'm looking forward for 3458A successor and next break thru scope in price range of 3kX series:)Does not matter if it will be beige/white/grey/black.What is important for me : user interface-ergonomic, specification and quality of service.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 10:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 30, 2016, 07:42:58 pmThey've gone to voice control now. At least it's useful.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 10:52:49 pm
content: A Keysight voice controlled instrument enthusiast:" OK Keysight Dee-Ess-O-Eks-Thirty-one-zero-four-zee, ten millivolts per division , AC coupling! "Me with my dumb Tek scope:click...click

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 11:18:08 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on December 01, 2016, 10:52:49 pm

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 01:33:11 am
content: That's gonna look great next to my LeCroy gear!

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 01:45:21 am
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on December 01, 2016, 04:58:32 pmDo you know if any of their sites offer free food? The only mention I can think of is:Quote from: Keysight UKWhile Lecroy promote:Quote from: LecroyI know where I would prefer working!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 01:11:01 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on December 01, 2016, 10:52:49 pmMy voip phone is plugged into ethernet, my multimeter is plugged into ethernet, I dont see a reason, why I cannot just call the multimeter to read the measurement value...

author: MrWolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 01:25:34 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 02, 2016, 01:11:01 pmIn 10 years time multimeter might decide not to answer your call because humans are frankly... obsolete...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 01:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 02, 2016, 01:11:01 pmThis is off-topic, but you could script that in asterisk, if you need that feature.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 07:50:57 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 30, 2016, 01:13:54 amNot only branding, but the UX guys, too... last thing you need is engineers deciding colors, ending up with a device neither anyone with poor vision or colorblindness can use!That said, I think dark test gear looks way sexier. I'm kinda surprised that the test gear industry has stuck so doggedly with beige and pale gray, considering how most of the electronics and computer industry moved away from earth tones a decade ago or longer...

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 09:36:56 pm
content: I like it white. It's just clearer and you can see the details better, and you can spot stains more easily, also rust. Not to mention that the instrument is more evident if you are in a low light environment...

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 11:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 30, 2016, 07:42:58 pmReal Oscilloscopes are blue & silver!

author: MrWolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 11:20:00 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 30, 2016, 07:42:58 pmQuote from: vk6zgo on December 02, 2016, 11:04:30 pmWe have a winner:Actually Keysight will also have to do these as current generation of little maker-androids* will grow up.*An android is a humanoid robot or synthetic organism designed to look and act like a human, especially one with a body having a flesh-like resemblance

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2016, 11:44:58 pm
content: Off-topic question: why doesn't anyone sell prototyping enclosures that look like that? There are a lot of things I'd like to put in a small portable enclosure with a large transparent screen window, some BNC jacks, and plenty of room inside for components and batteries. But the Hammonds and BUDs and Vellemans of the world still think everyone wants featureless aluminum boxes.On-topic vote: make mine beige, thanks. If all my test gear were black or charcoal-gray, it would literally suck all the light out of the room.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2016, 02:08:48 am
content: I have HP equipment that spans about 6 or 7 different styles, and there are probably another dozen. They seem to appear about every 3 to 5 years.This may also be displaced in the next few years. I wonder if their industrial designers ever use the old equipment? There are certain things that work and some that don't.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2016, 04:58:39 am
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on November 30, 2016, 02:44:53 pmThese are plausible reasons for a change. But no excuse for the horrible design. Black designs that work are all over the place, it is not the fault of the color. I kind of hope it was directed by a senior manager because that means there is only one incompetent to blame. Maybe the bad design is some kind of passive rebellion against a top down direction.

author: Faith
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2016, 05:18:29 am
content: So; since Keysight has been rather keen on pasting "Keysight" stickers on older test equipment and everywhere else......when can I start expecting my next piece of test equipment to pass through Keysight to come back in black vinyl wrap?On a more serious note though: looking at my 34465A now I find that its colour scheme is extremely pleasant to look at. There is no one feature that's too contrasting or too distracting compared to the rest of the instrument. Also; those glaringly bright run/stop/zonetrg/wavegen buttons on the 3000T oscilloscopes are pretty much only tolerable (and even barely so) because the rest of the instrument is white. I can't imagine how much of an eyesore it would be if it were black.Actually, come to think about it; maybe Keysight got their inspiration from EEVblog?Damn it, Dave!~Edit: Oh my lord my eyes are hurting just looking at the above picture with the zonetrg/wavegen buttons illuminated against the black. Argh!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2016, 11:11:15 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on December 02, 2016, 11:44:58 pmhttps://www.okw.co.uk/en/Plastic-enclosures/Interface-Terminal.htm

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 12:24:26 am
content: I've seen those, but they're pretty cheesy. No brass inserts for assembly with machine screws, and not much room inside for anything but the tablet itself, especially with the battery compartment option. (And what exactly am I supposed to do with 5 'AA' cells? C'mon, how about four or five 18650s?...)

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 12:56:04 am
content: Quote from: lukier on November 30, 2016, 02:52:31 pmIt also emits more radiation and gets cooler.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 01:09:03 am
content: Meh...

author: wim.de.jong.59
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 01:57:01 pm
content: Here is the 3458A Black

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 06:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: wim.de.jong.59 on June 29, 2019, 01:57:01 pmUh ?! seriously ?? gonna scrap my eye to use something like this, with pale blue writtings pfffffffff

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 09:51:21 pm
content: It's 0.01 ppm off!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 09:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: TiN on June 29, 2019, 09:51:21 pm10x worse!!!

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 03:52:38 am
content: Things like this have been done before. I haven't found much else in this color scheme. The black one is older than the gray one.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 03:56:44 am
content: As for that 3458A, I can see it now:"Dear, I couldn't get the cable TV box to work, so I had the cable company come out and replace it.""Thanks honey. By the way, have you seen my Keysight 3458A?""Your what, dear?"

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 04:25:09 am
content: I've always preferred black for any kind of gear, especially audio and consumer electronics, it's timeless. Really though I don't care what color my test gear is as long as it doesn't interfere with functionality. Bright fluorescent colors would be distracting but anything subdued is fine.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 09:29:31 am
content: Quote from: wim.de.jong.59 on June 29, 2019, 01:57:01 pmHere you can clearly see why the choice of black color is a bad choice: The blue text is hardly legible.Anyway: Now you can see the dust better so you know when the lab needs a cleanup

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 06:16:03 pm
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on June 30, 2019, 03:52:38 amI think that dark grey one is either a custom, made for a specific customer, or one that someone has refinished in the older, late 50s/1960-ish dark grey panel color, as they'd transitioned almost entirely to the light grey by 1961 (at least based on the instrument photos in the '61 catalog). The 5216A makes its first appearance in the 1968 catalog, 7 years after the color switch. It's certainly possible someone could have refinished it in the older color scheme - the panels are engraved, so it would be easy to get the lettering to look nice and factory. If it is a refinish, it's very nicely done!-Pat

author: branadic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 07:42:20 am
content: Not sure where this pictures is coming from, but:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-1058EN.pdf-branadic-