Steps to learn Electronics ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: RivaultUser
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2013, 03:10:40 pm
content: Hey there, I'm new to electronics & I've been learning for almost 1 year by myself ( thx to my friend, google, teacher, etc. )All of this time I don't have any guide to learn everything in order, for example I now learning the shift register 74hc595 because it's interesting to meThe problem is I don't know the order of which I should learn first, I've been learning about basic components, op amps, 7 - segment, 555, 4017, well I think that's all that I can doSo, can someone tell me what should I do next ? I need to know the next step, because it feels like I don't have a strong base to learn electronics ( like right now I'm learning about LM 3914 & I don't know what I read in the datasheet, and tutorials around the internet )PS : What I really want to build : Persistent of vision & LED Cube ( I know I know that Its SUPER HARD and I'm just a newbie in EE )...........T.TPlease helppp!!!!!

author: CodyShaw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2013, 03:18:33 pm
content: It seems you have the right idea for what you want to do; learn as you go. Read lots of datasheets.If you want to understand the nuances of electronics, you should pick of some textbooks though. I use Sedra & Smith Microelectronic Circuits (Sedra was the dean of engineering at my university for a long time) and The Art of Electronics (naturally) by Horowitz & Hill. You can learn pretty much everything about the basics with these two books.

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2013, 03:21:22 pm
content: There is no single "order" as there is no single "electronics" to learn and tick off.There are just lots of areas that you may or may not want to learn. And new ones appear over time.Just pick these you are interested in. I doubt anyone knows it all at once.Just get a decent overview of everything so that you know what exists, and learn in depth the parts you need at the moment. No need to learn about valves when you want to do digital, etc.

author: Alana
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2013, 06:36:40 pm
content: designing and building your own workshop tools is a good way. You need a power supply you try to design it from scratch learning all the quirks and tricks on the way. You want to make LED Cube you would need a microcontroler, microcontroler programing tool, evaluation board. You can go buy arduino but as someone said - its better to design and make it from scratch and make it arduino programing language compatible.This is the best way or even - the only way. Otherwise you would be assembling circuits from pre-made [pre-designed] blocks like i did for some time.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2013, 08:12:54 pm
content: Well you could always keep doing what your doing now, learn as you go.That's how i originally got into electronics, found something that interested me and learned all i could about it.As others have said, there's no correct order of learning electronics. For example, when i was getting on electronics first time there was no cheap micro-controllers with easy programming environment around. All we had was 8 bit computers. Yes i am that old.For example, if you need new power supply, learn how to design one. If nothing else, you learn what to look for when buying one.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2013, 08:53:46 pm
content: Like people have been saying, you are doing fine. Keep going! Go bigger even.Figuring stuff out as you work on a project is a really great way to learn since you will always have a great context for whatever you are learning about and this will help you remember stuff way better than just reading a book or sitting in a lecture. Plus you will have to work through all the failures and gotchas that crop up when you don't have experience with something. This sounds bad at first, but what happens is when you get it working then you actually do have experience! And you really earned it!The other side of this issue is being exposed to new ideas, circuits, components, and ways of doing things. That is what I feel a forum like EEVBlog does best. Just go through the forums and read every thread that sounds interesting or relevant to you. While you are doing that, keep mental notes like, "damn that circuit sounds useful. If I come across that problem that's the place I'm going to start." Plus when you run into a problem you haven't seen, just ask and you will (probably) get a bunch of useful help. There are usually a bunch of ways to do things, but some ways are better than others. This is a great place to get opinions of those better ways.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 07:13:25 am
content: "As others have said, there's no correct order of learning electronics. For example, when i was getting on electronics first time there was no cheap micro-controllers with easy programming environment around. All we had was 8 bit computers. Yes i am that old."Sorry my friend,butthatisn't old!!

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 07:45:41 am
content: From this point there are a number of different directions you can go. I suggest that you play with more 7400 and ger into mcu and software. From then you can go to analog. If radio interests you, then try that. You should try and make a fm bug to spy on people.

author: Shenandoah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 09:22:34 pm
content: This is how I'm learning EE:Start with the very basics1) Circuit analysis (general)Circuit definition and what makes a circuit using graph theoryCircuit laws: element i-v characterization, KCL, KVLLoad linesCircuit simplifications: Thevenin and Norton equivalentsMethod of analysis: Node voltage and the superposition principleVoltage and current dividers2) Inductance and Capacitance circuits: RC, RL, RLC, charging and discharging characteristics.3) AC analysisPhasorsGeneralization of element law with impedance4) Applying Laplace Transform to circuit analysis which leads to more generalrepresentation for DC/AC circuit elements5) Non-sinusoidal analysis using Fourier and Superposition6) Passive FiltersBode plots and frequency responseBefore this don't bother moving to anything semiconductor/electronic circuits7) OpAmp basic operation- Basic OpAmp circuits: inverer, non-inverting, adder, subtractor, integrator, differentiator,comparator, cascading- Active FiltersDiodes- Basic operation- Types- Applications- Diode circuit analysis9) BJT/FET circuits10) OscillatorsAt any stage you can start with Digital design:An excellent text: Digital Design by ManoGood luck!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 09:47:22 pm
content: Just build something you want to build. If you want an LED cube, try and build one. If it fails, then you learn more.

author: Aeon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 09:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 19, 2013, 09:22:34 pmyou just nearly listed 4 years of my electronic egineering studies at university. the only things missing are rf-theory, systems theory, control systems and 2 years worth of math lectures

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 10:03:30 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 19, 2013, 09:22:34 pmYou're kidding, right?

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 10:35:29 pm
content: Start with Ohms Law as knowing the basic relationship between voltage, current and resistance is essential. Then have some fun with basic circuits to reinforce that.After that, build whatever interests you at the time - maybe using some kits as these are known designs. You don't have to understand how everything works in fine detail at the start.Then you can modify those kits and observe the effects. There will be some successes and a bunch of failures - it's all good learning experience.

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2013, 08:48:37 pm
content: Quote from: con-f-use on July 19, 2013, 10:03:30 pmSadly, this is how electronics are taught in some places. Two years into it and you have no idea how to desgin a single circuit, but you are a math wizardThere are some books that are collections of circuits, preferably made of discrete components, with explanations. Get those.Sadly modern electronics today are full of black boxes that teach you nothing, you implement them using reference designs from datasheets...Nobody cares to explain how they work anymore, probably courtesy of the general hostility towards competitors in the industry, and the chinese...

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2013, 11:49:38 pm
content: The most important part of learning about electronics is start from the beginning. I mean, the very fundamentals and physics of electronics such as atoms, electron theory, how electricity acts and interacts with substances, very basic but important stuff! When you have this understanding and solid background in this, the rest comes easy.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 12:35:25 am
content: It entirely depends on how best you learn.Everyone is different!Some people learn better by getting all the math/theory solid in their head before moving on to practical.Others learn better by playing with practical examples, pulling them apart , changing values and learning the theory only as they need it.What puts you into either category is usually which one you 'enjoy' the most.Some people find it incredibly boring to concentrate on the math/theory without any practical reference.Others find it incredibly annoying trying to build/modify circuits unless they understand exactly whats going on inside each component.

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 06:44:39 am
content: Quote from: hlavac on July 21, 2013, 08:48:37 pmReally, time to use different parts.Every part I buy blabs on about their better method. Describes the inner working with a diagram or text.It would be insanity to put a complete physics lesson in each datasheet. Nor would I expect a detailed explanation of their manufacturing process.For a device I just want to know the specs, the type, and general manufacturing process.From these given detail and some knowledge you can get more than you need.If you want more information on how things work, universities publish papers and manufactures publish white papers.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 10:09:36 am
content: Quote from: hlavac on July 21, 2013, 08:48:37 pmThis isn't a bad thing, it just means the field of electronics is expanding to create different levels, from chip fab to advanced design to black box construction.Abstraction is good.

author: Abstr7ct
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 12:22:34 pm
content: Quote from: hlavac on July 21, 2013, 08:48:37 pmI believe that this is the standard way for teaching electronics in academia. You look at an EE program plan in an Indian university and then you look at a plan in an American university, they are almost identical. These plans are set to prepare a student for research and that's where most of the focus goes based on the plan. It's difficult to teach all skills in a 5 years program, so that's why it's up the student to learn these hand skills on his own.I don't think that an electronics hobbyist would need to learn Laplace or Fourier transforms to build and design circuits even if they're advanced.

author: Shenandoah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 03:13:29 pm
content: QuoteTrue if their projects are limited to lighting their girlfriends flip flops with some leds.

author: Abstr7ct
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 04:35:29 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 22, 2013, 03:13:29 pmTell me you're exaggerating. I wouldn't expect a mere 'hobbyist' would work on signal processing or designing communication/control systems from scratch. This is even above the level of undergraduate EE students. It applies clearly when you reach the level of post-graduate research and applications.

author: Shenandoah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 07:28:06 pm
content: QuoteMaybe, but then how far hobbyists can go with their projects? Honestly if the projects are not going to be innovative and useful in daily life, then what's the point of wasting time...just to smell the melting solder fume???

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 08:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 22, 2013, 07:28:06 pmBlimey. What is it with the forum today? We've just had one guy throw a hissy fit because some people are interested in more digits than he considers 'necessary' for a hobby, and now this?A hobby is nothing more than a (usually rather inefficient) way of turning spare time into fun. If that fun happens to be innovative and useful, great; if it happens to be building something the Chinese are knocking out for twenty pence a pallet, what skin is it off your nose?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 08:22:31 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 22, 2013, 07:28:06 pmdestination, journey, clever quote here.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 08:25:58 pm
content: As someone has already said, everyone learns differently.With electronics there is a balancing act. You need to maintain enthusiasm and the best way to do that is to build things or at least do experiments but this tends to give you rather specific knowledge in a particular area and you may miss out on the underlying theory.It is a good idea to step back and get an over-view at least to the level of knowing what the basic building blocks are such as analogue electronics being amplifiers, filters, mixers, phase shifters and digital electronics being logic gates, state machines, embedded processors, dsps and the interface between the two in terms of A2Ds, D2As, sensors.Personally I find it easier to learn if I have a basic over view and know where things fit in. But to get the motivation to study stuff in detail, it is good to be working on a project even if it is only to build something that you could get cheaper in integrated circuit form.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2013, 09:50:37 pm
content: There's no definite order, and no right or wrong way to learn.There are two basic camps: One says to begin by learning all the fundamental theory and math, and then start building stuff, and the other says to begin by soldering together interesting circuits, and learn enough theory and math to figure out what to do when you get stuck.Personally, I'm somewhere in between the two camps. In order to be really good, you need a mixture of both theory and practice, but it's possible to learn either one first, or to mix the two up together, learning a bit of each simultaneously. Between theory and practice, I don't care which you learn first, but you shouldn't consider yourself well-rounded or accomplished until you've learned both.People specialize in digital or analog, or many various sub-specialties. Though you may specialize a bit, don't forget to learn a bit about areas outside of your specialization. For example, digital signals always end up travelling on analog lines, and analog capacitance and inductance can cause lots of problems for digital circuits if the designer isn't aware of the analog traps.You can learn things in various orders, but in the end, you do need to understand enough calculus and differential equations to know why you're seeing all those sine waves and exponentials on your oscilloscope. You can't thorougly understand analog filter design and impedance on the complex plane without calculus. You need enough physics to understand why really sharp square waves cause RFI issues, and how to choose between twisted pairs versus coax. Algebra needs to be second nature, so you can understand and apply the formulae in data sheets. You should know how to carry units through in calculations. And I'd never trust an electronics person who couldn't solder up a dead bug prototype or drive an oscilloscope.As to what to learn next, you can follow an approved college level electrical engineering curriculum, or you can just learn more about the next roadblock that's currently halting your progress.Since you mention that you're having trouble understanding a data sheet, you probably could use a bit more theoretical background. How is your algebra and calculus?

author: ampdoctor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 08:39:19 am
content: A lot of it depends on why you want to learn electronics. Is it just a hobby that you want for personal enjoyment, or are you looking at designing things for manufacture or resale. Big difference!Having said that if you're looking to either end you absolutely need a bit of math but calc and diff eq's is unnecessary. You better have a passable understanding to manipulate equations at a high school algebra level, as well as using logs and exponents. You'll need that because you're going to have to be able to manipulate Ohm's Law, power law, Kirchoff's law, and some basic capacitance, inductance and reactance formulas. If you can't do this much you're dead in the water! After this I think it comes down to how do you learn best, and are you interested in it as a means to an end or some form of intellectual exercise.I think a lot of people, myself included, learn via the method of problem, solution, learn info as needed. Here's a few simpler examples; I've got to switch 5 things and I only have 100mA to work with. So now I have my problem. Solutions could be relays, optical switches, FET or bjt switching. FUCKK...relays are out! Ok, FET's and bjt's make good switches and they're small and cheap but I dont know how to implement them. Guess I'll have to do a bit of research and that may lead into more research into simple power supply design, and on down the road. Here's another one; Lets say it's approaching xmas time and I want to design an automatic christmas tree watering system. Now I need to learn about pumps, motors, servo's, etc.Every time you get a wild hair up your ass you build something. Then when you screw it up beyond the telling figure out what you did wrong. After a while you just accumulate an incredible amount of applied knowledge about electronics and problem solving, but you'll never get through a university engineering program. This is just my opinion, but I think this is a better way to learn as a younger player because it gives them a sense of accomplishment when they finally get things to work and they're rarely biting off more than they can chew. And of course success breeds more success and this can really light a fire under the ass of a 16yr old!

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 11:24:48 am
content: I really like what Colin Mitchel said in the interview with Dave. If you haven't watched it , do so. Relevant part starts at about 13:00.He talks about one of the biggest reasons people attempt electronics then never do it again, people bombarding them with equations, theory, math. Just do it, if you burn up a transistor , that is 3 cents, no big deal. Experimentation will teach you faster than any other method, when you burn your finger on a hot part you learn quick. As long as you are sticking to battery powered type stuff and then experiment, that is how I got my start. When I was learning there was no internet, my local library was a joke, and the only way I had to get my questions answered was the local tv repair guy and I had the engineer mini notebooks.Go towww.talkingelectronics.comand start reading some of the tutorials , they are very good for beginners and don't try to bog you down with boring stuff, that you can learn later.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 11:46:54 am
content: Quote from: ptricks on July 23, 2013, 11:24:48 am+1 to that.

author: Shenandoah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 02:28:04 pm
content: Then one question, if I don't know enough theory, how can I bias transistors in a circuit I want to design from scratch???

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 03:07:11 pm
content: I think the point is that once you realize you need some theory it will be easier to get you to like it

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 03:15:15 pm
content: I think I do it the wrong way around, I tend to build it then figure it out afterwards, I guess we all learn in a different way,works for me.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2013, 08:27:11 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 23, 2013, 02:28:04 pmYou look at circuits others have done and see why it is done that way. On the talking electronics site they are very good about explaining why a circuit is done the way it is done.EXample about the bias question:http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/TheTransistorAmplifier/TheTransistorAmplifier-P2.html#Biasing

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 05:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 23, 2013, 02:28:04 pmwhy do you want to muck about with transistors. throw in an opamp and wing it.

author: Shenandoah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 05:53:06 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 26, 2013, 05:41:23 pmThe same reason many PCBs of tons of electronic devices contain discrete transistors, and of course to design custom ASIC chips, or even my own OpAmp.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 06:00:25 pm
content: Haha asic chips from discrete transistors. Someone made a 555 timer from 2n2222

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 06:07:57 pm
content: I want to see one made from tubes....(And no, I will not spend the rest of my day playing around with that idea and getting nothing useful accomplished...)

author: Shenandoah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 06:41:47 pm
content: Quote from: smashedProton on July 26, 2013, 06:00:25 pmThis is only the first stage, then they are compressed and painted on a silicon wafer, put inside a high temperature oven for oxidation, and then I apply some UV light to etch the tiny wires...etc. Read this book:http://www.amazon.com/CMOS-VLSI-Design-Circuits-Perspective/dp/0321547748/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374864093&sr=1-1&keywords=cmos+vlsi+design

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 01:00:03 am
content: Quote from: smashedProton on July 26, 2013, 06:00:25 pmWhat do you think they did before there were 555s!

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 01:42:09 am
content: Yea we can do half of any job, with twice the power, with modern tech.Just imagine what could be done with modern devices and the almost lost know how of before.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 01:48:11 am
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 23, 2013, 02:28:04 pmYou buy them pre-biased LOL

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 02:23:43 am
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 23, 2013, 02:28:04 pmDo what most people do--steal a circuit from someone else & modify it for your purpose!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 02:28:13 am
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 22, 2013, 07:28:06 pm"Innovative" is highly overrated----spare parts bins the world over are filled with bits out of innovative projects that that turned out to be useless in the real,big,nasty,cold,world!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 02:31:57 am
content: Quote from: Shenandoah on July 26, 2013, 06:41:47 pmseems to me you haven't read it either.. compressed,painted,oxidation.. uv to etch wiresyou really are a basketcase...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 04:34:13 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 27, 2013, 02:31:57 amWhat? You don't have a circuit compactor at home? No good household should be without one.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2013, 06:11:03 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 27, 2013, 04:34:13 amOf course i do ! I have a whole box of hammers. Mandatory for correct application of the Widlarizing technique.