Tektronix New TBS2000B "Affordable" Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 11:08:20 pm
content: Link:https://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tbs2000-basic-oscilloscopeLink:http://news.tektronix.com/2020-04-28-Tektronix-Extends-Performance-of-TBS2000-Product-Series-with-New-TBS2000B-Series-of-Digital-Storage-OscilloscopesThe new TBS2000B Digital Storage Oscilloscope is great at performing an oscilloscope's most important jobs - looking at and measuring signals. See more with its bigger 9-inch display with 15 horizontal divisions for more time per screen and 5M record length to capture long time windows. Measure more with handy cursors and powerful 32 automatic measurements. Share more with Wi-fi connectivity and 100-BaseT Ethernet port. This affordable scope delivers the performance you need.

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 11:18:28 pm
content: Seems to me to be targeted at the education market. I'm in the market for a 4 channel 100MHz Osciiloscope. This Tek configured that way is $2,500 which if it had a touchscreen I would save my pennies and clear a spot on my bench for it. I think I'm going to go for the Siglent SDS 2000 Plus instead. It pretty much checks all the boxes. It's been a while since I looked into it's specs, but I think the only drawback to the Siglent was lack of 50 ohm terminals.I think Tektronix has done a nice job improving their lineup with this and the 3/4/5 series. Just too pricey for me as a hobbyist.

author: stafil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 12:47:31 am
content: Quote from: ResistorRob on April 28, 2020, 11:18:28 pmJust curious, why would prefer this over the SDS2000+, and why would you prefer SDS2000+ over Rigol MSO5000?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 12:57:58 am
content: Wow... A TBS2074B costs 5 x DS1054Z for a marginal bandwidth gain and much less memory. Perhaps a better UI?I would love to play with it, but I wouldn't hold my breath after my past experiences with their TDS3054B (which had a good UI but meager specs) and the demo units I played a bit: MDO 3 and MSO 4 (very slow UI).

author: knapik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 01:06:48 am
content: I don't understand this unit. If its going to be tektronix, they can't compete on price, so they have to compete on software quality, but the UI is incredibly annoying to use. I think its mainly just for education (why they try to have a help screen to explain everything).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 02:05:53 am
content: Quote from: ResistorRob on April 28, 2020, 11:18:28 pmFYI,allSiglent 2000 series DSO's have 1M and 50 Ohm inputs, SDS2000, SDS2000X, SDS2000X-E and SDS2000X Plus. The 8" display SDS1000X range prior to SDS1000X-E also had 50 ohm inputs.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 04:41:51 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 29, 2020, 12:57:58 amDefinitely. I use a TBS2000 at a customer every now and then. For looking at signals it is a very nice oscilloscope. Good display, nice crisp traces and just does what it should do. It could do with a touchscreen interface though. I keep pressing the screen instead of using the selector knob. I don't get why the TBS2000B series has less memory compared to the TBS2000 series though.If you look at the documentation it is very clear that this oscilloscope is for educational use; it seems to be tailored to that with several features for teachers to add coursework and monitor progress.

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 10:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: stafil on April 29, 2020, 12:47:31 amAs a teenager I had a huge poster of a Tektronix oscilloscope hanging on my wall. (yes, I was a nerd, lol) so my goal was to own a Tektronix oscilloscope when I "grow up". Would be cool to finally check that off my bucket list.A while back I made a list comparing the Siglent and Rigol with each other. Basically they both checked all the boxes except one feature item each. For the Rigol the lack of 50 ohm termination was the only thing missing from my wishlist. I can't remember what the SDS2000+ was lacking, but with both missing 1 feature I wanted and Siglent seeming to have quicker bug fixes and mixed reviews on whether Rigol fixed the dim screen issue with the MSO5000 had me thinking the Siglent was the way to go. Honestly I kinda like the black gimmicky look of the Rigol, but overall I think the Siglent has a slight edge. If I had another $1,000 in my budget I would definitely go for the Rohde & Schwarz. I love absolutely everything about that scope, but out of reach for me at the moment.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 05:42:41 am
content: Quote from: ResistorRob on April 28, 2020, 11:08:20 pmMissing serial decoding, triggering, and DPO otherwise 9 inch screen is nice, Mark and Search is great and Tek probe interface is niceDoes anyone know how much they are ?cheers

author: Lemonizer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 07:58:42 am
content: Is it just me, but looking at the various declinaisions (from 70Mhz 2 channels to 200Mhz 4 channels, all with 2Gs/s sampling rate), is it horribly expensive ? I admit I rarely look at new scopes, but damn, I mean there's scopes that are 20 y/o on the market with similar specs (ok, maybe not similar UI/quality screen, some features too I guess) for a ton less, and electronics is an area that advances quite quickly. Especially when we look at Rigol/Siglent scopes, which are def not in the 'toy' area. Sure, it's a Tektronix, so I guess quality control is better, and after-sales service too (is it ?), but does it justify almost 3k for a 200Mhz, 4 channels 2Gs/s scope ?

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 09:05:00 am
content: Quote from: Lemonizer on April 30, 2020, 07:58:42 amI understand where you're coming from. Realistically I think it comes down to the question of, does it have warranty? Does it have support? The ebay stuff doesn't have this, so if you're a business, or if you want or need this, I guess you want the piece of mind that you'll not have any issues or at least won't have issues for long. With a used cheap ebay score, anything can go wrong at any time and it will take and indefinite amount of time for that problem to be fixed. + with ebay scopes you usually don't get calibration out of the box.My ebay scope emitted magic smoke 5-10 minutes into it's use by me. Thankfully it was an easy fix (thanks to members of this forum), but who knows what you get?Personally, I have enough things to do if my electronics equipment breaks. I can afford to poke around inside and ask smarter folks than me on forums in my spare time, or look for replacement gear getting listed. But if all I did was electronics, I would probably think a bit harder about collecting a few pennies and getting if not a top tier Tektronix or Keysight or R&S or whatever then at the very least the Chinese competitors. To be honest I don't know which way I would sway in that case. Plus I'm a novice. So poking a probe somewhere it shouldn't be poked will be an expensive mistake which I'd much rather make on something more financially forgiving.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 11:11:01 am
content: 100% agree on the eBay used market - the offers for warranty are few and far between, although you can still go for a Keysight used at their own eBay store and pay a lot less.However, bucketing the Far East brands in the same scenario is not really fair.Many people have their DS1054Z, SDS1104X-E for quite a number of years already. Both Rigol and Siglent are offering long warranties and have official distributor channels at least here in the US and in some countries of Europe.I, for one, bought my Rigol DS4014 from Rigol directly with warranty and all... It has been going good for almost five years now.At the entry level I mentioned before, at the list price you are paying for five DS1054Z (Rigol), GDS1054B (Instek) or four SDS1104X-E (Siglent). You can buy two oscilloscopes, leave one gathering dust as a backup and still have half the money in your pocket.As Nico mentioned above, the educational market is probably the only one looking carefully at these offers. Sadly, they will teach people on a platform that is probably seen less and less on the real world.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 11:20:32 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 30, 2020, 11:11:01 amAgree but they will only if they buy them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 11:43:36 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 30, 2020, 11:11:01 amThere is nothing odd or outlandish on a TBS2000. It is a digital oscilloscope like any other and it is a well polished product. My guess is that educational buyers get a very hefty discount and the list price is high on purpose to increase the perception of getting a great deal.

author: Lemonizer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 12:45:09 pm
content: I totally understand the warranty and after-sales service, but still, even taking those in accounts it seems really expensive. Maybe they simply price it within what people are ready to pay for it ? They surely do that. It's buisness afterall.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 02:37:31 pm
content: Quote from: Lemonizer on April 30, 2020, 12:45:09 pmThe thing is, Tek focuses heavily on the edu market because that's where they are still somewhat strong. There's a a lot of staff at schools and universities which has been out of industry for a very long time (often decades) and of which many fondly remember Tektronix back from the analog days. That's something Tek wants to tap in.It also helps them by exposing students (i.e. future engineers) to the Tektronix brand, which becomes more relevant as very few have grown up with the old image of Tektronix in their mind.The TBS2000 Series has been specifically designed for that market. It's a basic scope, easy to operate, has extended help functions explaining literally everything, and fits in the classroom package which Tek offers which includes educational material and tools to give the instructor some control over the scopes. The reason why it has Tek VPI probe interfaces is simply because it allows students to use active probes and learn how to handle it.It's not very attractive when compared to a standard entry-level scope, but for the market it has been designed it fits much better than any Rigol or Siglent scope (although Tek isn't the only vendor offering classroom packages, for example Keysight does the same, but didn't specifically design a scope around it).As to the price, yes, it's silly. But this is by purpose. It can't be priced too low because it would be seen as watering down the brand image, and put the TBS2000 closer to other entry-level scopes which are cheaper. The inflated list price also allows Tek to give buyers big incentives over the list price, which makes it more attractive. And especially because a lot of edu staff has no idea about the T&M market, that prices in that segment have been shrinking or about new entrants like Rigol and Siglent, they see it as a good deal. Win-winOutside education, there is little reason to buy a TBS2000 scope over anything else. The quality isn't better (and even Rigol and Siglent make pretty robust kit these days), Tek support is somewhere between poor and horrible, and the warranty is mostly the same around the various manufacturers.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 02:47:12 pm
content: Quote from: PixieDust on April 30, 2020, 09:05:00 amWarranty isn't much of an issue (and I buy a lot of used gear on ebay for business use). Most manufacturers like Keysight allow you to buy warranty (Keysight calls them "repair agreements") for 2nd hand kit as long as it's working fine and within the support period. And especially the Keysight ones are often surprisingly inexpensive.QuoteEbay has buyer protection and if there's a problem within the first 45 days then you can send it back and get your money back (but this rarely happens if you're a bit careful). That gives enough time to get an instrument covered under a new warranty/repair agreement.QuoteSure but the price difference easily covers calibration, if that's even necessary (especially as scopes normally no longer need adjustment).There also are many sellers who offer calibration for the stuff they sell, either included or for an additional fee.QuoteYou could also just have returned it and get your money back

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 09:21:37 am
content: Apparently Tek will replace this scope if it gets damaged and this is factored into the higher price. The cheaper brands won't do this because they will lose money. After sales support and service is what schools would be looking for in the long term rather than an initial cheap bargain basement price. Who knows what the untrained student could do to a sensitive piece of test equipment that a cautious seasoned user would try to avoid !!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 10:35:39 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on May 01, 2020, 09:21:37 amWhere does Tek say that?Because it doesn't say anything about this in the warranty terms:https://www.tek.com/worldwide-page/worldwide-terms-and-conditions-saleQuoteIt clearly states that the warranty only covers a defect in materials or workmanship, i.e. a manufacturing defects.Tektronix is not going to replace a scope for free if it's got damaged by abuse or by accident. Not suree what makes you believe that this would be the case (maybe a bit too heavy on that Tek Kool-Aid there)QuoteI'm sorry but that's nonsense. Tek's warranty terms are exactly the same as everyone else's, even Rigol and Siglent provide the same coverage.No manufacturer covers you dropping your scope or frying the inputs by accident.You might be able to get additional protection against accidental damage (as it exists for cell phones and other gadgets) but that will be separate insurance and come at additional cost.QuoteYes, definitely, if the scope is a tool that makes you money (and then you'd probably also want the level and quality of support to be more like Keysight and not at the level Tek is offering).For a school or university less so, because they are not losing money if a scope goes down, and in this environment it makes more sense to keep one or two spares, even more so if they are inexpensive. Also, educational facilities who teach EEs usually have other instruments they might be able to use as a temporary fallback option. So they don't care as much about repair times and service levels as businesses do.QuoteWell, yes, stuff can break in an educational setting, which is why the costs to replace equipment should be factored in.It's also the reason why GW Instek has quite a strong hold in the edu market (and had so for many years), and there's more and more Rigol and Siglent stuff in educational labs, simply because they are inexpensive fit ever shrinking budgets which especially many schools are suffering from.At the end of the day the question is what you want. The TBS2000 Series is made for Tek's classroom package, which is a complete package for educators which includes training materials. It saves educator's time because it's a ready-to-use package. It comes at a cost, though.If your faculty can't afford that or prefer to use their own training materials and syllabuses then pretty much any basic scope will do fine. And if you're not going to use the Tek classroom package then other scopes will do equally well, while being cheaper.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 10:59:42 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 30, 2020, 02:47:12 pmI found out about this as a result of this experience. But I'm quite happy with the scope now that it's fixed anyway.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 02:27:02 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 01, 2020, 10:35:39 amBoy you sure have it in for Tek haven't youYes it is extra but at least you can get it which is why schools might do a bulk buy on these scopes to get a good dealhttps://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/tbs2000-basic-oscilloscopehttps://info.tek.com/sso-total-protection.htmlQuote

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 12:02:57 pm
content: TBS2000B looks poor for the price! Is it even designed by Tektronix? LCD is good.The search and mark feature is nice, but still:-no video trigger-no color gradation-no function generator-unspecified waveform update rate-no serial decodingCome on, it is year 2020.Keysight DSOX2000 series is still the perfect scope for school use and it is still very OK for professional use.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 12:22:35 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on May 02, 2020, 02:27:02 amProblem with you is that, unlike Wuerstchenhund and Someone, you don't seem to know much about other scopes but keep on trumpeting how great Tektronix is.You stated previously that 15 years old Agilent scope is still being sold. And you did so many such gafes, never admitting you were wrong.To be able to compare two things you need to know both well..And Wuerstchenhund arguments with Someone are not really connected with you or your posts, but are continuance of history between them, that originally resulted in Wuerstchenhund being banned here.Let's summarise facts that are certain:- Tektronix made some of the greatest analog scopes. They are legend because of that. As kids we all dreamed about them..- When scopes started going digital, things got fuzzy. Ever manufacturer had their vision how digital scope should look like and all of them made them different and all of them did some things worng and some things right- With digital scopes being different animals, users and manufacturers started making different workflows for old analog ways of doing things. Some new practices deliberately wanted to keep old analog workflow on digital scope, some deliberately used completely new way of doing things, taking advantage of fact that digital scope could (and sometimes couldn't) do things old analog couldn't (or could).- With years, because of all that difference in opinions, and user requirements, practice and experience, in some points manufacturers largely diverged in a way how they make scopes, and in some points they all started to do things same way as others because it works and user wants it. Which lead to fact that, sometimes, some functions that were supposed to be the same, worked differently on different platforms, with all the consequences of that to the user.- In meantime, lots of new players came to arena, and now low cost market is ruled by B brands (with all the good and bad coming with it)- A brands (and especially Tektronix, because of owner structure) are not what they used to be. Sort of. Stuff is still pretty good quality, some of the standard support for some of the product clases is not as it used to be. Generally, to get great support you have to pay extra. In the olden days it wasn't so, but then stuff was really expensive and manufacturers could afford it. Keysight seems to be best in that regard.- Of all the A-brands, Tektronix has worst price/performance/feature/benefit ratio. That doesn't mean their stuff is crap. It means it's overpriced for what it is .- TBS2000B seems like a nice entry level scope. It defintely is not crap quality stuff. But as Wuerstchenhund nicely said "Outside education, there is little reason to buy a TBS2000 scope over anything else. The quality isn't better (and even Rigol and Siglent make pretty robust kit these days), Tek support is somewhere between poor and horrible, and the warranty is mostly the same around the various manufacturers.".That scope has literalynothingon it. It has functionality of TDS200 series with more memory, larger sample rate, few more measurements and nice big colour screen. There is no even basic decoding, nothing. Literally any cheapest scope from Rigol, Siglent, Keysight, R&S, GW-Instek, even OWON, would allow you to do more things and be more useful to user. It is a "digitally emulated analog scope" in concept. That ship has sailed years ago. If you really want analog scope get real one. It's great fun.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 12:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on May 02, 2020, 02:27:02 amBut that is an insurance you pay extra for; not warranty. And likely equipment damage is already covered by other insurances already in place at companies and universities.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 12:32:50 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2020, 12:25:26 pmAbsolutely correct! You can get that kind of insurance and extended warranties from Keysight, at very good prices... But it's extra.If you take a look at standard 5 yr warranty for Tek TBS2000 series and Keysight DSOX2000 there are few paragraphs in both that are "boilerplate" identical between the two...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 01:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 02, 2020, 12:32:50 pmWhat I don't get is... For the price of ONE TBS2074B you can get FIVE DS1054Z! You have replacements out of the wazoo without paying extra.Ah, and IIRC with the same 5 years warranty (Rigol just bumped their warranty terms).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 01:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on May 02, 2020, 02:27:02 amActually, no, I don't. I just know the difference between what's written in the marketing blurb and reality. There's a Grand Canyon size gap between themDon't get me wrong, it would be great if the Tektronix of today was the same Tektronix as back then during the analog days. But unfortunately it isn't. It's a shame, yes, but I don't have to convince myself that they are still something they are not.QuoteIt's not. Because Tek Total Protection is pretty much the same that schools already get from all the other insurance brokers which cover their equipment.I'm pretty sure 'Tek Total Protection' is not even provided by Tek but by one of the larger insurance providers where Tek just resells one of their plans under its own name. This is pretty common with most accidental protection schemes.Total Protection for a TBS2000 scope costs somewhere around 20% of the unit's list price for 5 years of coverage (and insurance costs are usually calculated after list price even when you got a discount for the scopes). So you pay an inflated price for a scope so you have the privilege of buying accidental damage coverage for roughly the same it would cost you with other insurance providers, all which also insure equipment which is not test equipment and from any manufacturer.Of course this varies by country, but in general accidental damage and theft (the latter which isn't included in Tek's Total Protection package) insurance isn't much of an issue for schools as they already have to cover everything else which gets into contact with students or which can be stolen, so a classroom full of scopes will normally just added under the existing agreements. In some countries like the UK, there's even a government scheme which provides coverage for schools.Some schools may decide that it's not worth insuring their scopes. Because at the end of the day, the cost saving when buying cheaper scopes (like a Rigol DS1054z or Siglent SDS1202X-E) instead of the TBS2000 could well mean they could buy 50% more to cover damage and accidents over 5 years, and then the cost per scope may well be low enough that insuring them isn't really worth it.I'm not saying the TBS2000, Tek's classroom package and even the Total Protection scheme are completely wrong. It is overly expensive, but there are definitely benefits in a single provider 360 degree classroom solution for basic electronic training (for example, private training providers which deliver certain kinds of training to businesses might be a good fit for such a gold-plated solution). But it's expensive, and for a school or university which isn't swimming in cash and which prefers to work after their own syllabuses other options will be a lot more economical.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 01:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 02, 2020, 01:31:56 pmThis, exactly.At the end of the day, how much damage is there really in 5 years of use? Even for a high school the amount of damage should be limited, it's not that the scopes will be used by elementary school students.I would worry a lot more about damage to probes, but then passive probes are cheap.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 02:38:09 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 02, 2020, 01:31:56 pmPut them head to head and I'm quite sure that you'll find many positive points on the TBS2074B compared to the Rigol. There are a lot of things that don't make it into the datasheets but do make a difference when using an oscilloscope. Also keep in mind that the TBS2074B is designed for educational use and the DS1054Z isn't. Teachers cost money and having test equipment which -more or less- guides students through their course work can be beneficial.

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 03:51:23 pm
content: Wow! No serial decoding!! I take back my comment about I would buy this if it had touchscreen. How can it cost $2.5k and not have features found in scopes that only cost 20% as much. I 10000% completely understand that this scope is aimed at the education market so they perhaps removed some features to keep it simple and easy to use. But in my opinion they should include them, and just give instructors the ability to software enable or lockout serial decoding and other optional features. If a school wants to teach how to do serial decoding on a scope, then what are their options? A $7,000 Tek or a $500 Siglent (1104x-e)?I just wish Tek would make something amazing for the hobbyist market. I understand why they don't, but it's just disappointing.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 04:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2020, 02:38:09 pmThat might well be the case, but then, these are very basic scope we're talking about, the TBS2000 even more so than the Rigol DS1054z, which is pretty much amongst the cheapest scopes which aren't a toy.QuoteTrue, but considering that the DS1054z has been on the market for a long time and is now a very mature scope, it's easy to operate, the UI isn't overly complex or unintuitive, and even the triggers work surprisingly well, I'm not sure there's a lot that the TBS2000B could be doing better, especially when considering that all the other new Tek scopes were released with a number of annoying bugs.Also, Tek isn't exactly known for having the most ergonomical UIs.I can, however, see a clear difference when it comes to many functions which are available in the DS1054z (like serial decode) aren't even available in the TBS2000B.QuoteAs I said, this can be an advantage for certain situations. However, I really can't see a wide appeal, not just because many educational institutions prefer to follow their own syllabuses so Tek's prepared classroom material won't present a real benefit, but also simply because of the excessive pricing for an instrument which lacks many commonly expected functions. Because, really. the question is how useful is it in 2020 to stuff a classroom full of scopes with no serial decode when things like serial communication are so omni-preset that even beginners fiddle with Arduino and similar stuff. Even more so when the less capable scopes come at a premium.Having said that, the TBS2000B certainly isn't the worst product Tek has come up with in recent years. Far from it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 04:40:05 pm
content: Rigol is not sleeping on job...https://www.rigolna.com/education/There is no any advantage to use Tek instead of Rigol (or any other scope that has curriculum support).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 04:57:25 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2020, 04:29:33 pmThat is kind of my point. However I agree Tek should add protocol decoding to it but likely the CPU which drives it may not have enough processing power for that function.Quote from: 2N3055 on May 02, 2020, 04:40:05 pmA few videos and PDFs are not equal to what Tek is offering; Tektronix (like Keysight) seems to have an entire ecosystem to turn the oscilloscope into an educational platform. I don't see that on Rigol's website. The link you posted is a typical non-solution just to tick a checkbox so a buzzword gets addressed.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 05:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2020, 04:57:25 pmThe only thing is that even the TBS2kB not being the worst Tek product is pretty meaningless because it's still far off from what the competition offers.QuoteMaybe. It can hardly be a cost issue, though.Quote from: 2N3055 on May 02, 2020, 04:40:05 pmA few videos and PDFs are not equal to what Tek is offering; Tektronix (like Keysight) seems to have an entire ecosystem to turn the oscilloscope into an educational platform. I don't see that on Rigol.It seems to be more than just a few videos and pdfs:QuoteThis suggests it's actually closer to Tek's classroom package. Videos and pdfs are just a small part of it.Also, their training material covers many topics that Tek's doesn't.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 08:30:24 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2020, 04:29:33 pmPrecisely. Having used the TDS3054 in the past (which I believe may be a close cousin to the TBS2000) and the DS1054Z for a few minutes on a demo session did not reveal significant differences. The Rigol probably lags a lot when performing heavy decoding or math, but so did the TDS3054 (with math).Besides, a student learning to see wiggly waveforms in a circuits lab can use pretty much any basic oscilloscope, really. With the limitations of the TBS2000 (lack of the digital decoding or deep memory), it is mostly suited to the analog realm anyways - sure, you can always teach the students to decode the NRZ bit sequence directly on the signal, but that is certainly not productive nor adequate in today's world. The DS1054Z and even their biggest competitor Keysight can present the best of both worlds in a single equipment.The availability of pre-existing teaching material can also be a drawback, although this would be less common. I know several professors that shy away from pre-canned courses to prevent the copy-and-paste from previous semesters.Is the Tek useless? Not by a large margin! I know people doing serious developments with Minipa oscilloscopes, which are well below Rigol's league. However, the value is what is being discussed here and it is simply not there.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 08:34:57 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 02, 2020, 08:30:24 pmNo, the TBS2000 is not a close cousin to the TDS3054. Not by a long shot. The TBS2000 has 10Mpts per channel on all channels. Tek seems to have halved the memory for the TBS2000B series for some reason. My customer which has the TBS2004 also has a Rigol 1052; everyone is using the TBS2004 if they can.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 09:02:59 pm
content: Let's not forget Tek's most important features: the largest discounts off list (A), the oldest "nobody gets fired for buying X" reputation (B), and the comprehensive warranties (C). If you're the pointy haired boss, what use do you have for bits, MHz, options, and wfm/s? Hell, even absolute savings don't matter, it's not your money anyway. But you *can* brag about A on your resume, hedge against big mishaps with B, and let C transform small mishaps into demonstrations of your own supreme foresight. It's the perfect scope!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 01:10:23 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2020, 08:34:57 pmPerhaps I should have clarified better. I was thinking about the UI arrangement and added the performance bit in my post. I agree that, performance-wise, the two Teks may differ, but the UI organization and layout did bot change that much across the years.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 07:12:32 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2020, 08:34:57 pmNot that surprising, considering the DS1052E is a simple scope from 2008 with tiny screen, limited functionality and an UI which was 'inspired' by the early TDS scopes. Obviously a scope which came out 10 years later and with a bigger screen is nicer to use than that old Rigol.However, it would be a mistake to conclude from that that the TBS2000 is the better or nicer to use scope compared to other modern day entry level scopes. Because current entry-level scopes like the Rigol DS1054z (which is already 6 years old) or the Siglent DS1000X-E are a far cry from that old DS1052E. Even more so the Rigol MSO5000 and Siglent SDS2000X+, both which are within the TBS2000(B)'s price range.I just watched a video (Tek's 'TB2000 Technical Overview') on YT, and frankly the TBS2000 seems to be a lot closer to older simple scopes like the old Siglent SDS1000CML Series (a $299 scope) than to the entry-level scopes we have today, both in UI and functionality (leaving the educational content such as the explanation of 555 timers of the TBS2000 aside because it's of little use outside education).The TBS2000 UI actually remembers me a lot of the Hantek DS4000 (another simple scope).The current standard of entry-level scopes like Rigol DS1054z, Rigol MSO5000, Siglent SDS1000X-E and Siglent SDS2000X+ have evolved quite a lot from that.Quote from: jjoonathan on May 02, 2020, 09:02:59 pmAt least point (A) is definitely wrong, Tek's incentives are amongst the lowest in the industry (although they have started to become a bit more flexible, very likely down to the economic pressure coming with dwindling sales).As to (C), the warranty is actually the same as you get from Rigol and Siglent. Or any other manufacturer.You're somewhat correct with (B), although the same can be said about Keysight (which was Agilent which was HP), LeCroy and Rohde & Schwarz. Actually, these three names have, in general, a much better reputation than Tektronix today.Also, don't forget that the number of us old farts who knew Tektronix from the analog scope days is getting lower and lower.

author: stafil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 10:22:34 pm
content: Are the knobs at least pushable in this one, or they are not, like the other "affordable" scopes by Tek?Also, 800x480 resolution? Geez... (But I guess better than the 400×240 they have on their other affordable scopes)I love how in their website the compare it side by side with Keysight's X2000. A 10 year old scope. I guess the point they try to make is that this scope 10 years ago would be awesome.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 10:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 03, 2020, 07:12:32 amSo no hands on experience then... get a TBS2000 and take it for a spin. It is not as bad as you think even though the functionality is limited.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 01:16:05 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 03, 2020, 07:12:32 amWhich of these entry level scopes have a search and mark feature or the ability to use advanced probes ?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 06:34:10 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on May 07, 2020, 01:16:05 amAll of them except cheapest DS1054Z have search (also GW Instek has many advanced features on GDS2000E series scopes).None of them have probe interface, because people who use 4000 USD probes don't buy 500 USD scopes. You can always attach active probes with external PSU on any scope..

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 07:26:25 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 06, 2020, 10:26:42 pmNo, I don't. This isn't the class of scopes I normally buy and unlike the DS1054z it's way to expensive to just buy one as a toy.I might try to play with one at the next exhibition once this coronavirus thing is over.QuoteWell, can you explain then where exactly, in your opinion, it is so much better than any of the current entry level scopes which cost a lot less? Because it's clearly not functionality nor does it seem to be the UI.So I'm really curious, what is it?Quote from: snoopy on May 07, 2020, 01:16:05 amI think the only one who doesn't is the DS1000z, and that is a fraction of the price of a TBS2000B.QuoteAll of them, because there are many advanced (i.e. more than the usual passive probes) probes which have a standard BNC output and don't require a special probe interface.If you meant which of them had an active probe interface then the answer is none. Simply because it makes no sense, because as 2N3055 said no-one with a sane mind would use a $4k probe with a $300 scope.The only place where this makes sense is in a Tek classrom environment, because the active interface allows the use of the vastly more expensive probes for demonstration purposes while avoiding the need to spend even more money on a scope where active probe interfaces are actually useful.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 09:07:41 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 07, 2020, 07:26:25 amGood quality screen, sharp traces and it doesn't have stupid things (bugs if you want) like infinite persistence dissapearing when you enable the cursors as you sometimes find on the lower end scopes. The cursors also have annotations and (IIRC) you can also place the cursors outside the screen to position them accurately on a longer timespan (which is a bit of a Tektronix specific feature). What I like are the little details that make it work for you; nothing gets in the way to get the job done. My biggest complaint is the lack of a touchscreen. I keep pressing the screen. Would I buy it? Probably not but there is little to hate about it.Special probes can be an advantage. It wouldn't be the first time I assisted in a purchase process where a single probe was more expensive than the oscilloscope.

author: stafil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 10:29:05 pm
content: Well, another problem with Tek is their software support. I got a chance to play with a DPO2022B. My favorite "feature" is the dedicated "Test" button. When you press it, it pops up a window saying that "The features in this menu will be provided in a future firmware upgrade".The latest firmware is dated 8/22/2014. 6 years on, still waiting for the button to be activatedDon't know how a company can pull something like this off...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 11:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: stafil on May 07, 2020, 10:29:05 pmBut is there any spec on which feature should be activated by the button? Or better put: did Tektronix promise something which they didn't deliver? It could be a generic pop-up for unused buttons. I agree the text is suggestive though.

author: wp_wp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2021, 08:24:20 am
content: Excuse me.How to open the TBS2000B series scopes firmware *.TEK file?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2021, 08:53:32 am
content: Quote from: wp_wp on August 04, 2021, 08:24:20 amMight be the same as here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tds-1000-2000-3000-bw-hack/