Brymen 257/Greenlee 510A vs Klein MM6000 Photos Added - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 08:32:58 pm
content: Gents, spot me some opinions on this deal. Well, deals to be more precise. I was on holiday for the last week. Just mucking around the gaff and generally not doing much of anything. I did however need to do some testing on the trigger group of a Milwaukee power mitre saw and found the junky little meter I have(had) at home was falling apart. I never use it for mains work or anything else with a possibility of high ground fault currents or any other high voltage devises. Just continuity and other non hazardous tasks.I carry a Fluke 87V at work and it is great but it belongs to my employer and I only bring it home with permission and then to test mains or anything else with higher voltages. Love it but don't know if I should go down that road for home. My background is industrial and commercial electrical work and maintenance but would like enough accuracy and features for hobby electronics use. TME has257 at around $115 plus shipping to the States. And Amazon has the Greenlee 510a sitting in my cart at $143 and change shipped.This type of meter is likely very sufficient for my needs at the house and I was just about to hit the 'buy' button on the Greenlee when a notice from Amazon told me another item in my cart had changed price. This is Klein MM600 for...$95. Now this is rather intriguing since that meter tends to normally cost around 175 USD. I know it is supposed to be a better made model than the other ones and speaks to U.S. assembly, etc. For the life of me I cannot find much in the way of reviews. Is this meter in the same class as the Brymen/Greenlee as far as safety ratings and similar? I know Klein is new to this market with whatever brand of meter they are chucking their name on but it seems like a REALLY good deal? Thoughts?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:09:23 pm
content: Is it the M600 or 6000?

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: Satch on April 24, 2016, 08:32:58 pmThe Klein MM6000, despite being "Made in USA of US and imported parts" as perhttp://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multimeters/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeterprobably has roots via Fine Instruments 700 series as perhttp://www.finest.co.kr/html/pro_02.htmlIn Dave's $100 shootout, the UEI/Klein is probably an OEM Fine.Also check outhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/klein-tools-mm2000-multi-meter-review/PS. Klein bought some plastics molding/manufacturing company in 2005 and they probably make the shell/rubber holster for the MM6000. That is about as much "US parts" that makes up the MM6000.http://www.kleintools.com/content/historyInside, the components are likely China based origin.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:35:25 pm
content: Gents, the listing is the MM6000. I also understand there is a 600 model listed in Klein's models as well. At least the photo and description Amazon provides cleary lists; MM6000. It is why I jumped to attention. Not necessarily because of the made in U.S.A. though I would hopefully be able to assume a slightly better level of assembly. Though as suggested this is likely a preassembled unit and is installed the plastic case here. Either way, the specs say it is is a decent meter. I just cannot find any real hands on about it. What is the consensus, if any, at these forums on Fine instruments?I know the Brymen/Greenlee has a very good safety rating and good accuracy at its price point. I know nothing of Fine. As a back up plan, if I cannot make up my mind about mid level meters then it will likely be a Fluke 87V and pay it off in twelve monthly payments to avoid the hit in the wallet all at once. As I said, I don't really need it for residential use but darn it...I want one.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 09:56:46 pm
content: While the Greenlee meters are more expensive than the Brymen counterpart, the Greenlee does come with a limited lifetime warranty. I recently bought the Greenlee DM860A (which is the same meter as the Brymen BM869) and have been very happy with it so far.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 11:23:32 pm
content: The Klein MM6000 for $95 seems to be not a bad buy. It is rather slow with only 3 updates per second. Other than that there is very little information as far as reviews as you have said.As has already been said, the only difference between the Brymen and the Greenlee is the warranty. If you think $28 is worth the longer warranty that is your decision.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 11:41:43 pm
content: Lightages, that really just about sums it up. Actually, it is not even $28 difference I'd wager when you add in carriage to the States. And as mentioned, any Greenlee dealer would be approachable for warranty service. Even a limited lifetime warranty is worth something given the nature of electronic devises and how they fail at the drop of a hat sometimes.Thanks for sharing the information about the 6000 as well. I have never really paid close attention to the speed of meters in the specs but watching Dave's videos is revealing during those shootouts. Some of those meters take their sweet time displaying a reading.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 12:57:24 am
content: Satch, I think you're on the right track.Shipping from TME would run you ~$10 (they're located in Poland), so the price difference would only be ~$18. Combine this with the ability to obtain warranty service should you need it, I'd recommend going for the Greenlee version given that small of a price difference.FWIW, Brymen makes some excellent meters. I'm not 100% sure the MM6000 is made by Fine, but it certainly seems that way to me as well. To get an idea of how well Fine meters are built + performance, check out the UEI 39x series reviews & teardowns for example (i.e. bodge wire in the 393 found when Dave tore one down). Personally, I'd give the edge to Brymen, but that doesn't mean Fine is total crap either.UEI 397UEI 393UEI 391Please note the 39x series is now discontinued, but it should still give you an idea regarding the MM6000 IMHO.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:30:42 am
content: Thank you nanofrog. Great information. I have been searching this forum for some threads on 'who makes what' but have been somewhat unsuccessful.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:50:29 am
content: Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 01:30:42 amThat can be tough to figure out, but between different members, quite a few have been figured out (usually are mentioned inwhat do you recommendorwhat is your favoritetypes of threads IIRC).FWIW, I've figured out some of the hand tool brands' ODM's, and have picked up a few DMM ODMs as well. PM me if you want, but the information is also in the forum (check outcutters, pliers, screwdrivers, andtweezersthreads).

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 02:15:48 am
content: Thanks again nano. It is bad enough I have meter fever right now, let alone starting in again with hand tools. I am in commercial/industrial electrical maintenance with some data and minor electronic work thrown in. Think things like card access for the 'electronics' part. Very mild but I still like the proper tools. I am probably more ridiculous with the tools than the meters. I carry Knipex pliers almost exclusively but freely admit Klein makes the best danged angled nose diagonal cutters extant. Wera micro screwdrivers. You get the idea. It is why I am spending the time on this meter purchase. Measure twice, cut once as the old carpenters used to say.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 03:01:47 am
content: Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 02:15:48 amI'm the same way regarding tools (spend once, cry once), as I've dealt with crappy and/or incorrect tools on more than enough occasions to prove buying properly to begin with is well worth it.That doesn't mean I spend a fortune though.Figuring out who the ODM is for a particular tool I want has paid off rather well for me (i.e. get it for half the cost or more of the rebranded version). As has finding brands that offer better value, such as Brymen, or waiting for the right deal on eBay (particularly for used). Just means acquiring stuff is slower, and I'm usually willing & able to wait.If you're after hand tools for electronics, send me a PM.BTW, as per Klein, their quality has dropped as of late (grew up in a family of electricians, so I'm rather familiar with the brand).

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 12:02:36 pm
content: Totally agree about Klein's fit and finish. It ain't what it used to be. I traded out the angle nose diagonals for a pair of Knipex and while the quality is good the overall ergonomics of that particular model is not as comfortable for me to use as the Klein. And the Klein gives me greater cutting power too. Horses for courses as Dave would say. All my other pliers are Knipex and unless they bollocks it up, will be for a long time.Electronics hand tools? Well funny you should ask but this has been a big pain in the bum for me. I need(want really) a small assortment of miniature pliers and cutters. Cutters are not so difficult. Find a good pair of beveled cutters, no need for flush cut in the industrial world, in the size you want and that fit the hand and have a good build quality and done.Pliers are weird. A short chain nose and long chain nose of about 4-1/2 to 6 inches long is about right. But finding one with slim jaws and with serrations can get dicey. I love the size and finish options of Knipex electronics pliers but not one of them have a serrated jaw option. I will have to look at their 26 model line to find something. And even then you get into differences that seem small but work big. The 140mm model long nose have nice proportions between handle and jaw length. Move up to 160mm and some of the jaws become well over two inches long which can get in the way inside control cabinets or similar enclosures. Finicky I know but it matters to me.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 05:53:03 pm
content: Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 12:02:36 pmI was referring to the poor metallurgy, particularly with the screwdrivers (insufficient hardening, if any). The tips are so soft on current production, you'd swear they're made out of butter.May not be quite as apparent on the cutters as there's more metal, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're suffering from the same issue as well (i.e. Knicks in the blades).Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 12:02:36 pmSchmitzdoes serrated jaws extremely well. So well in fact,they're the best teeth I've ever used(don't flatten out/wear down like other brands, such as Tronex, who makes excellent cutters).Seems simple, but you'd be amazed at the differences. They also fit my hands rather well, though I do prefer the foam grips I have from Tronex and Swanstrom as they don't slip at all in my hands (I'm 6'-4" w/ long, thin fingers on otherwise big hands). The Schmitz slip to averyminor extent; I notice it if my hands are a bit sweaty in particular, but not enough it bothers me to the point I want to find other pliers (very minor gripe, but at this level, there's not much to complain about). The Erem ergonomic versions do so as well to a bit greater extent (24xx series), as do the Lindstrom Rx series (about the same as Erem's).At least in my hands, but YMMV (this is why I bought various brands as test units to try out to begin with).FWIW, Swanstrom's construction is effectively identical to Tronex, and are an excellent fit for me as well (extremely pleased with theS512EI have). Based on street prices, they're a bit less expensive as well. Unfortunately, there aren't many sizes & styles that come up on eBay compared to Excelta rebrands of Tronex however (or their own Lazer Line series, which is produced for them by Tronex; slight differences from their own models, but it's extremely minor <finish & shape of grips>), so most of my preferred cutters are actually Tronex (bought a bunch of different cutters to see what I liked, and Tronex came out ahead of everyone else; thus far, all of them were acquired as rebrands from Excelta). Swanstrom is there too, but there's a limited number of profiles that come up on eBay (i.e. 510, 512, 610, 612, in either standard or ergonomic variants). Others come up from time to time, but it's not consistent IME. The basic models offered however, are rather usable for electronics.FWIW, I usually go for the semi-flush (middle of the pack vs. beveled & full flush), as they make a cleaner cut than beveled, yet have a similar lifespan as a general rule (# of cycles you can actually get out of them).In my case, I find the longer/ergonomic versions fit me better given my height and hands. Schmitz fits, as does Tronex's ergonomic versions (longer versions begins with a 7 for Tronex, shorter grip versions start with a 5; Excelta rebrands use an E). The Erem's I have are absolutely wonderful at cutting, but the ergonomic grips slip in my hands; not to the point they're unusable, but enough that it bothers me (keep having to reposition them in my hand). If I had it to do over again, I'd go for the foam grips. The Lindstrom Rx series also slip in my hands a bit (they're currently produced in Spain, and they're not to the same quality that the Swedish versions were).They're usually under 6" in total length (extended ergonomic versions just barely come in under 6"), but will be quite sufficient. Meaning they'll fit your hands & cut the intended wire, assuming it's within it's wire gauge specs (be careful with steel leads; this is where I use a larger head size of cutter, as it can handle the steel leads of say resistors without breaking a sweat <i.e. easy to cut & the jaws don't knick in the process>). Meaning I don't have to search out the cutter's spec on steel/piano wire (Yes, I'm lazy).Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 12:02:36 pmSchmitz serrated models from their online store (other profiles are available fromAmazon.de*, that would have an MOQ = 6 pieces if you ordered them directly from Schmitz).4212HS22(Short Snipe Nose, Serrated Jaws)4412HS22(Long Snipe Nose, Serrated Jaws)FWIW, I've both of these, and am extremely satisfied.I've a thin jaw needlenose (smooth jaw) I've not been able to replace with the suitable Schmitz serrated equivalent yet, as I don't want to order 6 of them (not tried Amazon.de; C.K. Tools or Bernsteinmightbe the easier means of locating them if I'm willing to pay double or more Schmitz's prices).* Direct link to Schmitz products on Amazon.de.Hope this helps.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 09:44:20 pm
content: Nano, outstanding information. Schmitz was my first choice. I was turned on to the line by an electronics blogger from Down Under and I am pretty sure it wasn't Dave. Was it you?!! I was posting about such things over at Garage Journal and he gave me great information. I actually emailed Kim at Schmitz about buying direct from them a few months ago. She sent me a quote for several different models with different grips. Carriage was pretty dear at the time so I did not do it. But it does not mean I won't!I tried the Amazon.de route as well but all the sellers had a 'sorry, no usa shipping' or similar warning on each product. I REALLY wish Schmitz would open up full on distribution in the States. The two models you linked to are the ones I asked her about as well. Glad to know I was on the right track!I also agree with you about needing to sort the grip material you like. And doing it before laying money down on a whole set. I have fairly big mitts and like long handles with smallish heads for this sort of precision work. The old Klein D314-8 long reach pliers were grand but they discontinued them. So I was looking at smaller pliers the same way. Long handles compared to jaw length. I honestly do not necessarily need true micro sized electronics pliers but keeping the grips around 125mm long and the jaws around 50mm for the 'long' ones and around 25-30mm for the short ones would be great. And Schmitz has these sorts of pliers in their line. Including I might add angle tip models in just about every size and you can get the tips bent about in the middle of the jaws or closer to the tip(my preference for control cabinet work) and they offer three grip materials. Schmitz knows how to rock the precision pliers. As an aside, have you been able to handle all three grip materials from Shcmitz? I like the look(in photos anyway) of their handle that is sort of in between the plastic dipped and true ergonomic. I cannot remember what they call it. Thanks again for the load of help.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 10:35:21 pm
content: Quote from: CustomEngineerer on April 24, 2016, 09:56:46 pmI have the Greenlee DM820A (single temperature probe input) and have been happy with it. I was originally looking at the 510A, but got a good deal on the 820A. The dual display has proven more useful than I expected (e.g., seeing noise or instability when measuring a DC voltage via the simultaneous AC volts display).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 05:08:41 am
content: Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 09:44:20 pmThat would bePrecisionTools(I and other members also have accounts on Garage Journal). Sadly, he took down his website.Before he did however, that's where I learned Schmitz was the ODM as well.I'd had access to C.K. Tools before, so was familiar with the quality at least. He wasn't all that impressed with the Knipex's either by comparison, nor NWS's own stuff (dipped grips).Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 09:44:20 pmI've dealt with here as well (they're a small family run company).Regarding shipping, purchasing a single pair is a bit on the expensive side, but not untenable either. The trick is to buy multiples, as it drops the per unit shipping cost to what you'd expect from say an eBay vendor that's not gouging. To put this into perspective, I bought 4 pair, and the total price per pair was ~$28, so not bad at all.Also, last I checked, the shipping had even come down from what I paid, so that should ease your fears.Shipping to the US is also fairly quick, and zero issues with customs (my order took ~11 days to arrive at my door).Also, if you're unaware, VAT will vanish when you input your US address in their online store. I used my linked checking account linked to PayPal to get a lower currency conversion rate (came to ~2% of total, which isn't bad at all; rates for using a CC ran 4% last I saw).Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 09:44:20 pmThat sucks.Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 09:44:20 pmFWIW, I also picked up:4221HS22(flat nose, smooth jaw)4231HS22(round nose, smooth jaw)Makes for a decent all around set based on what's available through their online store (this may be the key to keeping the shipping costs low, as the MOQ of 6 units for the other styles I wanted put a stop to that immediately).***Also note that they only offer the compound grips on the products available through their online store.*** That said, they're nice, so I don't think you'd be disappointed in them (more below).I'd like to see better availability as well, but keep in mind that if they decide to sell their own line on full scale, they'd need distributors or balloon up in size. Which would cause the prices to shoot up to similar figures the rebranding companies sell for. It would also likely damage their ODM business, which is still their core. What they appear to be doing makes sense for their size and market IMHO.So it looks like I'll have to do without or pay handsomely for the remaining pairs I'd like to add to my bench, given what you discovered regarding Amazon.de. I find it a bit strange though, as the seller is actually Schmitz (maybe something to do with Amazon.de?). ***If they've lifted the MOQ = 6 units per P/N, please let me know.***Quote from: Satch on April 25, 2016, 09:44:20 pmI did take a bit of a gamble on the grips, as I'd only had access to the vinyl dipped ones (knew what the business ends were capable of though). But I figured I could certainly live with 125mm, based on the other stuff I already had combined withPrecisionTools' blog site article on them.Given what you like regarding grip size, I think you'd be very pleased with Schmitz's grips.But would absolutely fall in love with the longer grip versions from Tronex (or Excelta) and Swanstrom (grip material is foam on all of these). Tronex P/N's will start with a7, while both Excelta and Swanstrom use anEin the P/N IME.As per head sizes and shapes, I've a mix. Most fall in the medium category (oval, taper, relieved taper, and angulated), but I've one small oval, one large oval, and some specialty models (rebrandedTronex 7071for fine pitch IC legs, and a couple of stand-off cutters). Buying off of eBay made the collection I have possible, and test out different brands & grips, so I couldn't be more pleased over the financial impact (only paid ~15% of retail IIRC).

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 05:54:59 pm
content: Gents, the 510a is on its way to me as we speak. I checked the Amazon cart last night and they had lowered the price to $130.03! I wasn't waiting any longer. About the best bang for buck I could find. Warranty to boot.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 07:12:55 pm
content: Excellent, Satch. Let us know how you like it once you've put some quality time on it.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 09:39:38 pm
content: Will do!

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 12:01:07 am
content: Just wanted to say that I have just received my Klein Tools mm6000 for $90 USD.Before I say how it performs let me say why I bought it.For 35 yrs I have used very good Fluke meters on the job. I have nothing negative to say about fluke. Fluke is like the Mercedes Benz of DMMs. Very nice, very well made and last a long time. However, they are very expensive. I have never owned one myself just radio shack meters. While the radio shack meter got me in the ball park and lasted me 20 yrs, I needed more. Working on appliances, air conditioners ect. I found I needed a capacitor checker for run caps. The temp function is also very nice. So I began to research good affordable meters around $100 range. After watching the $100 shootout I learned alot. I liked what I saw in the klein meter. Home Depot in the US sells them. However, I found the mm6000 for $90. Now this meter has a .2% DC accuracy. WOW! A meter that performs like a Fluke in both accuracy and durability. So I ordered it. After testing it against a certified, recently calibrated Fluke 87 lll with higher resilution and a Agilent 6 digit display meter. In DC it was exactly the same reading as the Fluke and Agilent. AC was also on the money. I measured resistance and they matched exactly. Freq. Was also dead on.With that said, for a low cost meter I have no regrets! Find a bargain price and buy it.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 12:30:22 am
content: Quote from: nolefan on April 27, 2016, 12:01:07 amCan you post some pictures of the inside so we can see the pcb (both sides) to get a clue who made this meter?

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 01:55:52 am
content: Sure! I'll Try to get them posted in the next couple of days.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 12:01:03 pm
content: noelfan, thank you for posting. I would indeed be interested in seeing the board on the MM6000 as well. I came within a hairs breadth of buying it. If not for the Greenlee being reduced so much in price I would have. I have always felt the mid range meters were typically neither fish nor fowl. Either wait for a deal like the 6000 seems to be these days or buck up and buy Fluke, Agilent, or similar. The only exception seemed to be the Brymen models and the Greenlee deal made it an easy choice. Who knows? When you get meter fever a MM6000 may show up in the stable as well.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 03:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: nolefan on April 27, 2016, 01:55:52 amI can't wait, really looking forward to seeing as well.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2016, 03:27:28 pm
content: Quote from: Satch on April 27, 2016, 12:01:03 pmQuote from: Satch on April 27, 2016, 12:01:03 pmI agree, I too have seen the impressive Bryman meters, they just are not available in the US that I have found. I understand that the Greenlee is a rebranded Bryman. Therefore, you made a good choice. I was just answering your question about the Klein Meters. They all seem to have great reviews and are very tough. 3 meter drops. For field use .5% DC accuracy meters are plenty good. I am mostly in the electronics field and often need a bit more precision for testing batteries and power supplies. I was looking in the $100 range and happened on this $90 meter with free shipping on Amazon. Else, I might have bought the Klein mm2000, there were a couple in the test I liked also, UEI and a Uni-t 61.I have read that Finest Instruments in S. Korea make the circuit boards for Klein Tools brand meters.I hope eevblog will do a detailed test on this meter soon.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 01:26:17 pm
content: Klein Tools pics.I was not able to figure out how to remove the switch without breaking it. Mabe someone can advise.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:56:24 pm
content: The Klein MM6000 is indeed made in the USA.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 03:13:21 pm
content: Quote from: nolefan on April 27, 2016, 03:27:28 pmYes, Finest do contract design and make a lot of stuff for Klein. But the Made in USA models are actually made in the USA. I don't know about the bare board for example, but contract assembly is certainly done in the USA for those meters.Some Klein modes are also designed in the USA as well, I know the designer they hired to do it.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 03:24:56 pm
content: Very good price from Amazon. They usually sell for about $180.00.Made in USA, with 5 year warranty. Can't go wrong.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 08:13:36 pm
content: A few more pics.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2016, 05:57:49 pm
content: Here are some photos of the Greenlee. I apologise for the crummy camera work. I wish I were better at it.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 06:12:47 am
content: The MM6000 doesn't comply with the latest IEC recommendations, which will eventually be enforced in the US (Jan2018). Overload protection for a CAT III 1000V meter should be 1000Vrms, not 600Vrms.That may explain the low price at the moment, as a way of getting rid of old stocks.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 06:42:30 am
content: Quote from: nolefan on April 27, 2016, 12:01:07 amI have a Klein CL700 clamp meter and as anyone would expect I toyed with it quite a bit after I bought it...I was extremely impressed with nearly everything, it's quite accurate and has a lot of features. Continuity could be quicker but the screen updates quicker than I was expecting.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 04:26:03 pm
content: Just one other thing I have noticed vs the Fluke 87v and 27 is that when checking capacitors the flukes take a while to give a reading or none at all, the MM6000 reads them in 1 sec or less. Thinking something was wrong with the flukes I grabbed two different ones and got the same thing.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 04:30:20 pm
content: The MM6000 out performs the Flukes in capacitor mode, Go figure!

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 06:38:04 pm
content: Nolefan, who knows? Òne of those MM6000 meters may head my way as well. So far I am seeing nothing but good reviews. Thanks.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 10:20:23 pm
content: I noticed many wanted info on the mm6000.I had one to test. Just wanted to share what I found out about it. Seeing is believing!Nothing wrong with Bryman or Greenlee, these are fine meters as well!All I can say is that for me, it nice that I don't have to spend hundreds of dollars for a good meter. A mm 2000 would have been very good for my needs. But with the mm6000 selling for under $100 It becomes a real bargain.Hope the info was useful to everyone.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 09:08:47 am
content: Quote from: nolefan on May 01, 2016, 04:30:20 pmWhich Fluke meter are you comparing capacitance accuracy to?Fluke 87V 1%+2MM6000 3.5%+6

author: PeterMadach
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 12:19:01 pm
content: how's the continuity test on that Klein? fast, responsive? for only 90 dollars and free shipping, it might be the winner for me.edit: i just realized they don't seem to ship this to the eu. any thoughts on how can have my hands on one of these?

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 05:37:08 pm
content: Quote from: nolefan on April 28, 2016, 01:26:17 pmThanks for taking it apart and posting the pics.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 07:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on May 01, 2016, 06:12:47 amDo you have any links to any more information about this enforcement? It will be a very interesting development.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 02:32:59 am
content: I used the continuity test to run down a bad wire on my 06 Mustang GT. I did not notice anything odd or slow about the continuity function. It seemed to work as good as any Fluke I use at work. However, I was more focused on finding the wiring problem than the continuity feature. Not sure what you were looking for

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 02:52:42 am
content: I was testing capacitance against a Fluke 87 v and 27 . At work these meters mostly seem to take aprox. 3 seconds or more to read capacitance. I have come to expect that. However, when I tested the MM 6000 I was expecting the meter to take a little time to lock onto the capacitance like the flukes, I was surprised when it displayed the value very quickly about 1 sec.I was comparing the speed at which it reads capacitance not so much the accuracy. The accuracy is close enough that it is not really an issue in the field. They both read well within tollerance.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 10:40:20 am
content: As for comparison between a Fluke 87v and this meter, remember, the 87v has a higher resolution. It reads out more places. This meter is not a replacement for a Fluke 87 in that regard. It is a very good 6000 count 3-5/6 display meter.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 11:07:30 am
content: The 87V has the same max resolution as the MM6000 (10pF). There is no HiRes mode for capacitance. You would have to compare display times with several capacitors of different values for fairness. It takes more time for a meter to settle on a final reading, as the capacitance increases. The 87V also warns you of a necessity to discharge a capacitor, if too high a voltage is present. I don't think the Klein Tools has that feature.I doubt you will find a large time lag between the two meters, but it is possible.It is a good meter, with a good collection of features for that price range and probably a top contender for the crown in that cost bracket.The only thing I would miss is the Peak Hold feature.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 02:07:01 pm
content: Well said Wytucls! This meter is not a Fluke 87v nor does it claim to be. No one should take this review as such.Multiple caps were compared! There is about 2 sec. Lag between them when reading good caps. Not a real issue, It was just something I noticed.This meter was primarily designed for HVAC techs.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 06:06:56 pm
content: Those outside the USA. I found an eBay seller who ships all over the world.http://m.ebay.com/itm/Klein-Tools-MM6000-1000V-Electricians-HVAC-TRMS-Multimeter-NEW-/291655852121?nav=SEARCHTry this link. It's $109 usd. Still a bargain.

author: PeterMadach
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2016, 12:50:34 pm
content: Quote from: nolefan on May 03, 2016, 06:06:56 pmdon't forget the shipping costs... to my country, it's another 24$ to ship here, and if customs pick it up, another ~30$. i can get a brymen 257s for that price...

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2016, 09:36:41 pm
content: After reading more about continuity testing in meters I think I better understand the question about the continuity test. I slapped the leads together really fast and the beeps kept up with me. So I will say, yes, the continuity test is fast and responsive.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2016, 11:37:40 pm
content: I've seen other good meters from Bryman, Greenlee. Ect. Love to have one. However, I ordered another MM 6000 because I really am impressed with it. Especially for the price.The new model--MM 6000N-- carries a NIST certification. Not sure what that means!

author: PeterMadach
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2016, 11:54:21 pm
content: I really liked the specs, the layout, the functions of that Klein, but you simply can't get it for a good (enough) price here in Europe.Now I'm trying to decide whether I should cough up the money for a Brymen with decent protection, of just settle for a cheapy UNI-T 139C. I'm starting to lean towards the UNI-t, even though I'm a huge Brymen fan, I really don't do any measurement near high power where I would need a good protection (also, the 139 is not as pathetic as other UNI-Ts on that matter).

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 01:11:14 am
content: Here is a test of true rms . 60 hz,(2.98vpp/2) ×(.707) = 1.053 vrms. The specs say 2% in AC accuracy. But this is within .2% (Actual ppv was measured with a o-scope.) Resistance was also in a tighter tolerance than specified.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 02:08:51 am
content: The Resistance is in tighter tolerance than the specs claim.Specs says + or - 1% +5 digitsMore like .2% accuracy

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 04:45:07 pm
content: Here is a 15uf cap. Plenty accurate.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 04:49:55 pm
content: That capacitor is rated at ±5%, so it is not any good as a reference. The MM6000 does seem to be a pretty good buy right now for those in the US.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 06:15:05 pm
content: Quote from: nolefan on May 04, 2016, 11:37:40 pmThat means that the N version is certified to have calibration that is traceable to NIST standards. The non-N version is calibrated relative to the factory's own standards, which may or may not be NIST-certified. Unless you require calibration that is traceable back to NIST standards, it's not a necessary option.

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 09:59:50 pm
content: Well I am glad to see this thread getting some information out there concerning the Klein MM6000. While it is likely still a bit early to tell if the attempt by Klein to integrate test measurement instruments into its tool offering portfolio will be a success, I have to admit I like what I have seen so far.The only thing that will tell us whether these are great meters for their intended purpose(s) is time. As far as I can tell their intended market is the HVAC and electrical trades. So worrying about the Nth degree of accuracy for this model is likely not a big concern though the results posted by Nole are very encouraging indeed.I think Klein is being very smart about this. They seem to be offering very well made, safe for industry use meters, at a very reasonable price point. I am sure they are not trying to muscle into the 'we're just as good as Fluke and will charge the same' market. People will just default to Fluke. I would. I know it and trust it.Most of the guys carrying tool belts want their meters to survive. Survive drops and the occasional tool bag getting dropped on it without it losing its mind and dieing. Yes, it needs to be accurate but most of the guys I work with are Fluke diehards because the ruddy things don't die most of the time. If Klein can build a bit of a reputation as making good quality meters that don't fail with a little abuse, they will make some real inroads in the medium price range handhelds. I am very tempted to grab one of these at this current price point.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 02:34:38 pm
content: Glad to have helped, Satch!

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2016, 07:03:52 pm
content: Another export seller of this meter $95. Just info for those who want it.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2016, 07:21:48 pm
content: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/sp.html?mp=&oid=&s=A3R4I23CRTYH0H&t=shipping

author: TheRadioGeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2016, 11:25:53 pm
content: Hello all,I just got one of the Klein mm6000 meters from Amazon and I think it's a very nice meter for the $90 price. I did a youtube review of the meter. It's not a technical review, it's just what I think of the meter and what some of the functions are. So If you are thinking about getting one and want a closer look, check it out.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcY1AQANNlk&feature=youtu.beThanks.theradiogeek

author: Satch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2016, 09:04:41 pm
content: RadioGeek, thank you for the video. It is nice to get a look at the meter first hand. I think yours is about the only actual video look on the web. I don't count the Klein company videos because it is a promotional shot and not a hands on 'this is what it looks like' video such as yours. Really, a nice looking meter. If Klein plays their cards right they may have a big inroad into HVAC/Electrical test measurement.

author: nolefan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2016, 01:59:34 pm
content: Satch--if you haven't done so already, the MM 6000 is definitely worth purchasing.Amazon reviews, has 32 reviews all 5 stars, no negative reviews. That says something about this meter. $90 is half the regular price. The new MM6000N version is priced over $200. You sound like a Klein Tools man. You also mention the ruggedness of a Fluke. I am convinced this meter would pass the ruggedness test.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2016, 09:26:29 pm
content: The MM6000N is a MM6000 with NIST-certified calibration, hence the much higher price. Unless you need that level of assurance of accuracy, get the MM6000.