Best viritual Breadboard software? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 08:36:41 am
content: Someone who know about a good and simple software for build viritual breadboard?

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:16:42 am
content: Doesn't fritzing allow something like this?Be warned: I'm gonna predict a lot of people will hop in and rant about how breadboards are no good and breadboard images are no schematic etc...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:20:55 am
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on November 21, 2019, 08:36:41 amWhat's thebenefitof avirtualbreadboard? What is such a concept intended toachieve?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:21:51 am
content: Probably so arduinist evils can copy the circuit part by part, wire by wire? Otherwise not sure eitherAnd breadboards are not that bad. I've designed numerous circuits on them, both analog, digital and mixed signal. (building systems with MCS51 on large breadboards was fun!)

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:32:29 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 21, 2019, 09:20:55 amFor a beginner like me who wants to learn how different components are connected etc. I would think this is a good tool.I have also ordered many breadboards and various components, but these will probably not arrive until approx. two weeks

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:46:08 am
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on November 21, 2019, 09:32:29 amI don't think you will learn much electronics with a virtual breadboard. You will have a learning curve working out which buttons to press, but that knowledge is not transferrable.I think you would get more benefit from reading datasheets and application notes to find out how the components and circuit works. That will reduce the time to having a working circuit, and the skill/knowledge will be applicable to every other electronic circuit you build in future.Also be aware of the problems encountered with solderless breadboards: intermittent connections, parasitic inductance of long wires leading to ground bounce, parasitic capacitance between wires and tracks leading to oscillation, insufficient decoupling. Depending on the circuit you build you may not encounter those, but it is worth being aware of them.And always ensure the best possible decoupling!

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 11:34:51 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 21, 2019, 09:46:08 amI don't think I totally agree with you.I am aware of the differences in breadboard and circuit boards. By using breadboard you can easily see what fits together etc. before pulling out the soldering iron.I have tested "Thinkerpad" and so far it has given me a much greater understanding of how things are connected.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 12:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on November 21, 2019, 11:34:51 amI'm not sure what you are envisaging by "fits together", and Google can't find any reference to "thinkerpad", so I can't comment.A halfway house between solderless breadboard and PCBs is "manhattan" techniques. They are fast, flexible, can be permanent if you wish, and with a little care and understanding, have excellent electric properties.Use what is best for you, but be aware of some alternatives so you can make an informed decision.

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 12:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 21, 2019, 12:06:54 pmBeklager, jeg mente "Tinkercad".Jeg har nok funnet måten som passer meg best. Det viktigste er at dette skal være en morsom greie som jeg kan drive med.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 12:20:42 pm
content: Har du ikke ment å skrive på engelsk?

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 01:25:30 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on November 21, 2019, 12:20:42 pmSorry, I meant "Tinkercad".I've probably found the way that suits me best. The most important thing is that this should be a fun thing I can do.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 01:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on November 21, 2019, 01:25:30 pmI think using a 3D tool for layout is, um, heroic.Fun is fine in the short term, but your approach will limit you to very small circuits. That's no problem provided you are aware tgere are alternatives that scale, and would be prepared to modify your approach at the right time.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 04:26:49 pm
content: tggzzz really needs to stop with his anti-breadboard crusade. (Literally every thread about breadboards, he comes in to “warn” people about the pitfalls of solderless breadboards, hyperbolically making it sound as though they don’t ever work for anything.) He’s utterly convinced they’re of no value, and doesn’t understand that his suggestions of “quick” Manhattan soldering and studying datasheets aren’t sensible for every situation. His recommendations clearly expect levels of knowledge that a beginner will not have, not to mention eradicating the fun and delight of instant gratification and quick experimentation.

author: grbk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 04:33:54 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 21, 2019, 01:51:22 pmWhile I also question the utility of virtual breadboard software, wikipedia indicates that there is an electronics lab component to Tinkercad, so perhaps it's not actually using 3D CAD to design circuits on a breadboard? If it is actually using 3D CAD for circuits, then I certainly agree with your "heroic" adjectiveNote that I have never used Tinkercad and my knowledge of it is limited to what I learned from its wikipedia article. With that limited knowledge, combining "electronics lab" capability (whatever that is) with 3D CAD seems strange to me.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 04:41:24 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 21, 2019, 04:26:49 pmPlease point to where I wrote that in this thread.Be explicit.QuoteSolderless breadboards aren't the only way to achieve "instant gratification and quick experimentation".Which bits of"Depending on the circuit you build you may not encounter those""Use what is best for you""Fun is fine"did you not understand? Those are all from this thread.Sure, there are caveats. So what?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 05:08:50 pm
content: OP, what are you trying to achieve and, no, this isn't intended as a criticism? I'm trying to follow along with why you want a virtual breadboard when you have a real one.Components 'fit' together when they make up a circuit but there are an awful lot of circuits that can be built with just a few components.So, find a circuit that interests you and build it up. Were it me, I would be spending a LOT of time with w2aew's videos as he does almost everything on breadboards. There's a lot of really well done educational material on his site. Of course, this site has a lot of material as well. I like the Fundamental's Friday series.Learning electronics is a pretty broad statement because the field is so wide. Are you interested in analog electronics? If so, you want to understand transistors and op amps. If you are interested in digital electronics, you might as well start out with an Arduino and use the breadboard for add-on components.The normal progression is to start with resistors in series and parallel - Ohm's Law. Then networks of voltage sources and resistors - Kirchhoff's Laws followed by equivalent circuits (Norton and Thevenin). The next thing up will be an RC circuit viewed in terms of frequency response (measuring in the frequency domain) and step response (measuring in the time domain). These terms probably won't make any sense until you get to that point in circuit analysis.Next up: inductors. These will be studied in the same manner as capacitors.Finally, RLC circuits where everything is thrown in the box.Around here, we usually get into AC circuit analysis. The math gets ugly so perhaps just skim the subject at first.After that, it is time to take up active circuits (transistors and op amps).There is a pretty good EE program over at Khan Academy. Search the site for Electrical Engineering.I would recommend LTspice as a circuit simulator. It works really well and it's free! In fact, when you get to RC circuits, it may be quite helpful to simulate the circuit as well as building it.At some point, you're going to need a signal source and a scope. Were I a student, I would be looking carefully at Digilent's Analog Discovery 2. It's a lab full of stuff in a single box. It's particularly useful in a breadboard environment. When I want to demonstrate something (like the frequency response of an RC circuit), I reach for the AD2 because I have no other tool that will produce a printed Bode' Plot. If I want to talk about the harmonic content of a square wave, the AD2 is the easiest way to get a large scale printed plot of the Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) with annotations. There is simply nothing like the AD2 for students or beginners.Yes, it's expensive, but so is a decent Arbitrary Waveform Generator and a decent Dual Channel Oscilloscope.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 05:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 21, 2019, 04:41:24 pmI will grant that in this thread, your wording has been quite restrained. But taken as a whole, your posts about breadboards make it clear that you don’t think they’re worth the effort in any situation. It’d be nice for you to, frankly, just stop pissing in everyone’s Cheerios every time you see the word “breadboard”.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 06:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 21, 2019, 05:34:25 pmIt is good that you havenowread what I wrote.The next step is to override your kneejerk reflex and not to invent strawman arguments, which are likely to confuse beginners.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:42:48 pm
content: I'm not convinced of the virtue of any virtual breadboard software. Whereas real breadboarding (provided you know the limitations) can be a pretty useful learning tool, the effect of physically experimenting is a tremendous addition IMO.If you're going for software tools, I personally think you should aim, logically, for something that really takes advantage of being virtual, such as, as suggested above, analog and/or digital simiulation for instance. And, on the other end of the spectrum, learning to use some EDA software for schematics and layout editing. Both approaches would be complementary. Just my opinion.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:43:38 pm
content: I've never heard of virtual breadboarding software.Do you mean real-time simulation? Like this:https://www.falstad.com/circuit/If so, then yes it can be handy, since it makes the circuit easy to visualise. On the other hand it tends to be less accurate than proper simulator i.e when the schematic is entered, the simulation is run and the results are displayed in the form of a plot or table, showing voltages and currents at different nodes in the circuit.By all means play around with real-time simulators, but for more in-depth and accurate simulators use something like LTSpice.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 10:09:54 pm
content: Some people also use Proteushttps://www.labcenter.com/