Source of MDC ECM97 / Luna pick-and-place nozzles - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2020, 10:02:23 pm
content: Does anyone have a source for MDC pick and place nozzles (ECM97 and Luna series) -- or perhaps have some they'd like to sell?It seems like MDC (www.mdc-smt.co.jp) has gone out of business -- their website is gone and the email addresses I could find either bounce or go unanswered.I've tried Manncorp (the US distributor) - they won't sell anything or even discuss without a service contract. Mekko (former UK distributor) have moved into other markets.I'm also interested in any information, software or other things for these machines. I've been slowly scanning the documentation which came with mine and putting it online:https://wiki.philpem.me.uk/elec/ecm97/startCheersPhil.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 10:05:26 pm
content: I nearly bought one of these machines and after trying to get more feeders for it, decided against it as I could see that everything you would want to do, you would have to DIY it and adapt stuff from another common machine.If you have no joy, perhaps think about changing the nozzle holder to a Samsung or Juki type. I would have to assume that nozzle heights can be calibrated?

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 02:16:02 am
content: Quote from: SMdude on September 26, 2020, 10:05:26 pmThe nozzle zero/height and changer positions can be set using the "K-settings". The bigger problem is I don't know how configurable the "nozzle change" process is.The MDC nozzles use a very low profile quarter-turn "twist-lock" mechanism which seems to be unique to them. Two ears on the nozzle mate with pins on the nozzle stand and grips on the head, holding the nozzle in place. The head rotates one way over the stand to lock the nozzle, or turns the other way to unlock it.Swapping over to Juki nozzles is tempting, though given the limitations of the software I'd probably have to convert the machine to OpenPnP. That'd mean replacing the Kumagai KP422 motor control board as I have no data on it.Do you know of any sources for Juki nozzle holders?CheersPhil.

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 08:11:00 am
content: Quote from: philpem on September 28, 2020, 02:16:02 amI've seen them around from China. The OpenPNP guys are using Juki nozzles so they have a few nozzle holder variants available.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 08:53:24 am
content: Can you post a picture of the desired nozzle

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 12:38:15 pm
content: The OP would appear to have a dedicated site on the subject....https://wiki.philpem.me.uk/elec/ecm97/startThose with Versatronics RV machines can get theirs machined, they are plastic but lock the same way so I guess that is also a solution. When we first started looking at something to complement/replace the Versatronics, MDC machines did come up via Mekko, but at that point they didn't look like much more than toys, similar to those nasty Maddelltech things that used to occupy the lowest rung of the ladder.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 01:58:49 am
content: Well this machine will work better on a museum , Will be very hard to find original nozzles

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 10:39:10 pm
content: I was going to say, I'd linked the site in the OPI've got undimensioned mechanical drawings here:https://wiki.philpem.me.uk/_media/elec/ecm97/nozzles.pdfI've attached some photos of the nozzles and the pick-up head.I have a 3D printer, a lathe and a milling machine, so DIY-ing new nozzles may be an option. I'd have to reverse engineer the dimensions from the parts, but it should be possible. There are also local machining shops who specialise in small parts like these. I'd just like to avoid that degree of work if I couldI'm reluctant to scrap off the machine, it is a project machine at the end of the day, but I have a complete set of feeders for it. Upgrading it with more modern control gear and a bottom-up camera has been on my to-do list for a long while.CheersPhil.

author: manton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 03:21:46 am
content: I've been running and programming ECM machines for over 20 years starting with an ECM93 with laser align, purchased by a client I was working for at the time. In the last few years, I bought two myself, an ECM97 with mechanical centering jaws, and an ECM Luna EXP with flying and bottom vision. These are for the most part very reliable machines, and work quite well, once you get used to the quirks, and get them calibrated well. I've run thousands of PCBs through my machines in the last few years.I thought about converting the ECM97 to use OpenPnP, so that it would have vision, but never got to it before the ECM Luna EXP showed up on eBay, and it runs much faster than all of the OpenPnP conversions I've seen so far. Since OpenPnP doesn't have support for flying vision, it has to use the bottom camera for all centering, which is pretty slow by comparison, and for my use case, speed does matter to some degree at least.Luckily, I managed to get some spare nozzles, and other parts for the ECM97 before MDC went under. My guess is that Mr. Tadao Isono probably retired, as he'd been in the business for over 30 years. I was disappointed to see the company disappear without any explanation though.Like you, I'd love to get my hands on the source code for the software, as that might be useful when figuring out random problems. The fine art of programming these machines can be trying at times, especially with the vision based machines.While I can't help much in the nozzle department, as I need to hang onto my spares, especially now that they are no longer available, I may be able to help you in the machine programming department. I wrote some software that makes it easier to set these machines up, and I'd be prepared to share it with you (though, I probably should attach some sort of license to it first). It allows a feeder list to be built in excel, then it combines that with a pnp report file, a master dispense type list, and a master part type list, and builds the machine files. We used master dispense, and part type lists, as the older DOS based machines have severe limitations on how many lines can be in these files (I think it is something like 50 or so), so it isn't practical to share these lists across many different board designs. My software also helps work around some of the stupid limitations on the machine, like component angles not being specified at the feeder level. I've also set up the feeder spreadsheet to be able to import the machine files back in, so that the machine coordinates are updated, after the feeder targeting has been completed, allowing changes to be made, and exported again, without upsetting the programmed coordinates.Just an FYI, the nozzles may be hardened (though I haven't actually checked this), especially the tip, as these take quite a bit of abuse. They also look to be made in two pieces, and probably press fit together. You might be able to separate the nozzle part from the holder, and just make the part you need. Also note that the runout on the nozzles can be pretty bad at times, though that might be the shaft too. When using a vision system, it seems to take care of this well enough, but the laser alignment system might not. I don't remember that there are offset or angle settings that are adjustable on the laser system like there is on the jaws based alignment version. At least on the ECM93 with laser align, that didn't seem to exist.I also have 3D models for many of the feeder parts, and I've enhanced some of them to reduce feeder jamming. I also designed a series of replacement parts that allow the older black feeders to be converted from 8mm to 12, or 16mm width, and I'm working on 24mm at the moment.So, give me a shout if you think that I might be able to assist you in getting your machine running.

author: nisma
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 01:51:15 pm
content: Openpnp have support for in the fly vision. Hovever you need two separate motion controllers and async motion commanding. Additionally you need ramdisk for caching script and setup threaded logging for speed reason. Avoid smoothie board. It is advanced setup. Unfortunately recent changes to motion commands are incompatible with used scripting language because some legacy compatible code was removed and as result It works only on olders source branches.