Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1104 review (100Mhz 4 channel 'scope) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: AndyP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:37:48 am
content: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1104 reviewI’ve been looking for a 4 channel ~100Mhz ‘scope for home electronics use, and for use at work (embedded software / hardware debugging), preferable with a good memory depth and trigger out. At work I use a combinations of Rigol MSO 1104Z plus, Keysight MSO-X 3054T, and R&S RTM2034 (similar to Keysight MSO 3054T but with a decent 100x the memory depth and better screen).Before choosing the Rigol for work I tried one of the Micsig 10” tablet (TO204A) scopes from a local supplier, I liked the spec, user interface and form factor, sadly work budget limited me to Rigol.Recently I noticed Micsig had release a new cheaper scope still in tablet format, I first found it on Amazon US, but they ship direct from to China world wide. The price was similar to Rigol DSO1054Z, the specs are similar to the Rigol with full codes, the Micsig had a edge in some places and had more unknowns (touchscreen only interface, build quality, features), the Rigol is not without its flaws.Several factors swayed me, notably, larger screen size, smaller desktop footprint, WiFi, battery powered for those outdoor projects, and mouse control. (so I can tuck it out of the way but still control it easily). I was also taken by the Micsig teardown done my Dave, that leads me expect the diligence has been taken with the tablet ‘scopes.https://www.eevblog.com/2015/10/21/eevblog-810-micsig-ms310-handheld-oscilloscope-teardown/In the end my hard earned cash went on the Micsig TO1104.http://www.micsig.com/Item/Show.asp?m=2&d=30Now I have access to both a Rigol (at work) and Micsig TO1104 (personal) so can do side by side comparisons.I’ll cover the specs first, then discuss what it’s like having used it for a few weeks and any other pros and cons.Physically:I unboxed the Micsig with a little trepidation since you never quite know what the kit is unlike until you get it in your hands, I needn’t have worried, it’s a satisfyingly solid feeling piece of kit, the screen is 8” (20cm), but the ‘scope itself is 12” (30cm) across the diagonal, some of this space is used by soft buttons, the rest by a nice solid protective bumper round the edge, the screen is recessed into the bumper by ~5mm so the screen won’t get damaged by a fall.The TO1104 is ~40mm deep, so has enough space for all the electronics you’d expect in a good quality scope.Specs:See the website for the nicely formatted tables, here is the summary of the areas I was particularly interested in.TO1104 : 4 channel 100MHz 28MptsChannels: 4Bandwidth: 100MHzScope probes: 300MHz bandwidth.Convertor: 1Gsps split over 1/2/4 channelsMemory depth: 28M samples.Clock accuracy: 20ppmWavefroms/s 80,000Display: 8” (10cm x 14cm) 800x600 touch screenVertical 500uV (handy for some voltage drop problems)The experienced readers will notice the specs are better than the other contender in most areas.Interfaces:The top of the scope has the plain BNC connectors for the probes, and a trigger out BNC, I use for triggering a USB logic analyser.On the right side has the on off switch and a rubber cover protecting:EthernetCal (1kHz)Micro HDMI (to drive a monitor)USB A socket (for memory sticks or mouse control)Micro USB (to allow a PC to read stored files)Charging portIn addition there is WiFi access, allowing OTA firmware upgrade.User interface:The user interface is very intuitive, and fast, not suffering the lag that some of the competitors suffer from. I’ve lent the ‘scope to people, and after a 30 second demo they’ve gone on to explore all the features quite happily. Nearly everything works as they’d expect from a tablet which is what makes it so intuitive. (The minor exception is pinch zoom). It’s designed as a touch only interface so differs from the Keysight touch as a retrofit interface to a knob and button interface.If you’ve used a tablet, you’ll find this a breeze, and I prefer it hunting for the knob or button with the correct label on it on a regular scope. If you’re not a fan of touching the screen or want to mount it out of the way, the user interface can also be operated by mouse.On the far right (off screen) are the main action items are on permanent off screen soft buttons (Run Stop / Single / Auto / Measure / Trigger). The last two bring up a the menu to select the various option, menus are big, clear and easy to use. There is also a handy 50% soft button, this is the “recentre” button, the item recentered depends on the last thing changed, e.g. trigger time, or trigger level etc.A simple swipe or (soft) button press will bring up all the menus you’d expect on a regular scope, except on the Micsig you touch the screen, instead of twiddling a knob to get there. The menu interface seems to allow easier access to more of the menu items than a usual knob and button interface. Changing channel filtering and bandwidth or selecting a measurement (23 in total) is all very easy. Micsig have done a great job here.There are a few additions to the touch interface Micsig have added to make it easier, the 50% soft button, a pair of “fine” button to provide fine tuning of threshold / positions, these are context sensitive like the 50%. Finally the timebase can has a finer time (ns) button, a coarser time (s) button and a “show the ruler” button that pops all the time bases up to allow instant selection or scrolling. The touch interface also make the cursors very intuitive.I did try some waveforms for second tests, and for day to day use got ~1K waveforms per second, however with some tinkering with the settings (50ns per division, 1 channel, “Hi Speed” mode enabled, dots not vectors), I managed to squeeze out ~180K waveforms per second, though with a more normal fast configuration I’d get 30K waveforms per second. I found the update rate fast enough for my current project. The memory depth removed the need for me to do any fast triggering.I’ll try and include an images but the data sheet here does a better job than I can. (website a s little slow sometimes)http://www.micsig.com/UploadFiles/2016-06/2016060922075334732.pdfScreen captures and data (.wav / .csv / .bin) can be saved to local memory or external USB stick. Data on internal storage can accessed over micro USB, using a file explorer on the PC, note this requires changes the USB mode to USB storage device. Stored files can not be downloaded over ethernet / wifi.Features In DevelopmentThere are a few features still in developmentSerial Decoders a useful tool for some embedded developers)Segmented Memory (kind of goes with serial decoder to see several packets)Download screenshot over web interfaceSome users also like web control but this is more geared towards automation and I don’t need to do this for home projects.I will try and answer questions people post and I can do some side by side comparisons with the Rigol, though I'm hoping Dave will do a Micsig TO1104 review / teardown at some point.ProsThe key positives for me (in no particular order)Good value for money4 channel 100MHzDeep memory (28Mpts with Zoom function)Big screenSmall desk footprintEasy to use interfaceMicsig support very helpfulConsAll devices have their cons, they’ll matter to some people not to others. If you like the ‘scope but need a missing feature then check with Micsig, they are in the process of developing them.Serial decoders not yet readyOnly support a single memory ‘segment’Web interface slow / does not support screenshot downloadFan noise present in quiet environment (home), but not significant at workSome screen reflections on bright days when using outdoorsSome people may need the serial decoders, others may find the waveforms per second a little slow for some problems, though the big memory can help out with many of these problems. I’m looking forward to serial decoders and segmented memory being added, but a 100MHz+ PC logic analyser can plug the gap.Wrapping UpOverall I’ve been pleased with the Micsig TO1104 scope, especially at the Amazon US prices (seems to ship worldwide). It makes a great work and hobby scope, the battery makes it a grab and go ‘scope of choice. At work I use it preference to the Keysight MSO 3000 ‘scopes for most problems, only resorting to the Keysights when I need a faster (and 10 times more expensive) scope. The interface puts to rest any concerns I had about not having physical knobs and buttons.For me the pros outweighed the cons and I'd highly recommend the Micsig TO1104.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:43:09 am
content: How much did you pay for it and where did you buy it?

author: AndyP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:01:42 pm
content: I spotted it on Amazon first, there are several offers.with battery $427without $369*** These are on 2.8Mpts NOT 28Mpts - see post below ***https://www.amazon.com/Micsig-Digital-Oscilloscope-TO1104MNB-Optional/dp/B01MYO3149/ref=pd_sbs_328_3https://www.amazon.com/Micsig-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-TO1104M/dp/B01NB9T7DH/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2The full memory versions are more expensive ($699 and $429 for the two speed variants of the 4 channels 'scope), see post below.I ended contacting the sales team and buying direct, the price I paid is more than the offer prices heres (there as a 70MHz to 100MHz free upgrade offer at the time).Andy

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:33:02 pm
content: But those offers are for the TO1104M model which AFAIK has much less memory (2.8Mpts) than the plain TO1104 model which has 28Mpts (10 times more).

author: AndyP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 02:48:39 pm
content: Good spot, thanks nctnico, when I bought mine there was no M or B differentiation.I've updated the post above. Hopefully no one accidentally buys the small memory version.The 100MHz version seems to hover around the $699 mark (539 Euro with free P&P from some places) and the 70MHz 14Mpts version about $429 (389 Euro)I checked Batronix and few other EU suppliers and Amazon / ebay.Aliexpress has some good deals on these at the moment.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Digital-Tablet-Oscilloscope-100MHz-4CH-28Mpts-4-channel-oscilloscope-handheld-Automotive-TO1104-USA-FREE-SHIP/32763467600.htmlWith batteryhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/Digital-Tablet-Oscilloscope-TO1104-100MHz-4CH-28Mpts-oscilloscopes-Automotive-diagnostic-oscilloscope-touchscreen-portable/32771641549.html

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 05:19:29 pm
content: Mikeselectricstuff has a great 65-minute teardown here:He covers everything but the aux jack output (this looks like a product needing more software refinement).

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2017, 08:24:55 am
content: My tool is Micsig TO1104 also, which is kind of the new generation's digital oscilloscope I think. I just upgraded their new feature 'VideoPlay', which can help me record the waveform more useful.The PC-based software seems also available recently, here's the screenshot of this one.I'd also like to know if anyone brought their scope bag, I used go outdoors so it seems useful to have one like that. Oscilloscope bag should not same as normal bag, for it should have the function to protect the scope. So if you have their bag, I'd love you let me know it, I'm considering buy one too, thank you.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2017, 10:17:46 pm
content: I bought mine during the Ebay Christmas special for $299 (no battery). It has everything activated for the special.Anyhoo...I like it. It's actually pleasant to use with the finger gestures. Serial decoding isn't important to me as I already have that capability. I highly recommend it. One thing I immediately realized: their user interface text is spell checked and grammatically correct. They must have spent some time on the verbiage. Unusual. The device DOES freeze sometimes. But I haven't upgraded any firmware since early December. Oh, one thing, it has micro volt sensitivity and the noise floor is pretty good at that level.Also, due to some weird export law in China, you can't buy the battery after the fact. I highly recommend you buy the battery. I didn't because it's only a LOW FOOTPRINT desktop tool. After using it I realized I had other uses which remote capability would have been great. I ended up buying a Amazon USB battery pack with programmable variable voltage output into a barrel connector then velcro taping it to the rear stand. Sucks.

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2017, 09:49:24 am
content: Can you show me the picture of how make it portable without battery?(I see you buy something from Amazon, but I couldn't figure out the details, thank you.)I'm also totally feel regret for didn't buy the battery.But it seems there's no one can help.

author: thanasisk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 01:52:33 pm
content: Has anyone replaced the stock fan in the tablet? From the reviews online it appears to be annoyingly noisy, like an old laptop..

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 01:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: FrankenPC on March 07, 2017, 10:17:46 pmI think this is more about shipping restrictions -I believe these have changed quite recently.It should be possible to find a pack that will fit the compartment, but charging will be less convenient as the pack also includes the charger.

author: markusmaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 01:24:23 pm
content: Is there a possibility to view the recorded waves from the refwave folder on a PC?

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 09:18:21 am
content: Quote from: markusmaker on April 19, 2017, 01:24:23 pmYou can use their PC software function

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 09:22:22 am
content: Quote from: thanasisk on March 23, 2017, 01:52:33 pmI think it's acceptable, maybe you're in the very very quiet environment.

author: markusmaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 11:56:39 am
content: But the software is just a remote control - so the scope must be running. It would be really helpful to look at the data without turning on the scope also.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: markusmaker on April 26, 2017, 11:56:39 amIn that case you'll need to move the data to a USB stick or record/take a snapshot with a USB stick inserted. I see no way to access the data with the scope powered down. There are an ftp server and a webserver running in the tBook mini. The webserver seems to serve a static dummy website so that doesn't help. I have not tried really hard to access the ftp server though.

author: markusmaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 01:26:53 pm
content: Look like I did not quite describe the problem right. I have the files on my computer already. But I need a software to visualise the wav files. Likehttp://teledynelecroy.com/support/softwaredownload/wavestudio.aspxWaveStudio from LeCroy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 01:32:26 pm
content: Quote from: markusmaker on April 26, 2017, 01:26:53 pmNow I understand! I have not looked or asked for such a package so I don't know if it exists for MicSig. When I need to process/use the data I save it in CSV format and load it into (for example) Excel.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 05:37:17 pm
content: Another Micsig TO1104 (tBook mini) reviewFirmware version 7.14.1.245(Beta).A couple of years ago Micsig announced their 10" knob-less tablet scopes. The specs look decent but AFAIK they didn't got much traction. This is probably due to price, the unknown brand name and the bad reputation Chinese test equipment manufacturers have established when it comes to delivering products with incomplete and buggy firmware. But Micsig soldiered on and silently introduced an 8" version of their tablet oscilloscopes with lesser specs (lower bandwidth & samplerate) at a lower price. This product range is called tBook mini and seems to come in various versions with 70MHz or 100MHz bandwidth, 2 channels or 4 channels and short memory (M version) or deep memory (regular version). In the recent months MicSig has become more and more aggressive with their pricing strategy and their 2016 Christmas Amazon/AliExpress sale did land quite a few of these units in the hands of fellow EEVblog members. Various people appear to be very happy with the oscilloscope and Mike (Mikeselectricsuff) already did a teardown but I was missing a really in-depth review and I could not find a user manual as well so here is my stab at doing a written review. I'll write this review about what is in front of me now and not what might be someday.It all started a couple of weeks ago when I was contacted by Micsig's technical support and they asked me if I was interested in writing a review of the tBook mini (TO1000) series and they would offer a discount in exchange. To be honest I needed an extra oscilloscope anyway and the TO1104 was high on my short list due to decoding becoming available shortly. Because the other owners didn't report any (serious) bugs or missing functionality I decided to go for it. Micsig pre-installed the beta firmware version with the decoding for me.TO1104 short form specs with all channels on:4 channels, 100MHz bandwidth, 7Mpts memory, 250Ms/s, FFT, measurements, protocol trigger and decode (UART, SPI, I2C, CAN and LIN).At first glance what sets the TO1104 apart is:- Tablet form factor so easy to bring in a backpack or small case- Battery powered (optional)- Pure touch screen operation- HDMI output (mini connector)- Wifi support (optional)- 8GB internal storage- Video captureHardwareFrom Mike's (Mikeselectricstuff) teardown we know that the TO1104 has a similar recipe we see in many lower end scopes: an all-in-one oscilloscope front-end + ADC combo from AD, an FPGA, memory and a processor. In case of the TO1104 the processor is a Samsung quad core 1.2GHz ARM SoC. This should push the TO1104 quite a few steps up the ladder because the amount of processing power allows to do complex operations on lots of data quickly.There is also an auxilary output on the TO1104 which is the trigger output signal (5V pulse about 1us wide right after the trigger point).The 5 BNC connectors at the top of the tBook mini are in a recess so it is unlikely they get damaged from a drop.First impressionIt is a very compact scope. I like the colored rubber lids on the BNCs so they don't get dust and dirt inside during storage or transport. Turning it on for the first time took several presses on the power button. It turns out the first button press wakes it up and the second press turns it on. It starts pretty quick though; it takes about 7 seconds for the trace to show. Some people complained about the noise of the fans but on the one I have the fans seem to be temperature controlled and the noise is on par with other modern test equipment I have. After a while though the fans do get a little bit louder but still not annoying. I don't have to turn up my background music to mask it.A quick start guide is on the oscilloscope itself as a virtual picture book and it is worth to go through it. There are several special gestures and menus which can be opened/closed by swiping at the top and bottom of the screen.The display graticule has 14 horizontal and 10 vertical divisions which means there is more vertical range compared to a standard oscilloscope which usually has 8 vertical divisions. Another nice feature of the 8" display is that it has a 4:3 format (800x600) which translates to more display area/pixels compared to an 8" widescreen display (typically 800x480).The TO1104 comes with a short instruction/safety leaflet on paper. One of the items on that leaflet is about floating measurements and telling not to connect the USB interface in such cases. IMHO they should change that to never do floating measurements. The BNCs are exposed and their outer shells are all connected together so this oscilloscope isn't suitable for doing floating measurements.There are several spelling errors in the English terms in the user interface but I'm not going to get all worked up about that. The Chinese texts are probably better but I'd be completely lost.Test planI more or less copied the test plan from the review I wrote earlier for the GW Instek GDS2000E series but added some extra tests.Tests in random order:- Bandwidth / aliasing- Memory length versus number of channels enabled- Samplerate versus channels enabled- FFT function- Math function- Measurements- Input filtering- Protocol decoding (protocols and how much of the memory is decoded?)- Saving images and data- Saving / recalling setup- Cursors- Operating / using the scope- PC software- Networking abilities (remote control?)- Low signal triggering- Signal noise floor- Fan noise level- Peak detect and roll mode- Retaining settings- Storing waveforms- Battery run timeThe secondary goal is to use the oscilloscope for a couple of hours in order to spot stability problems.Samplerate, memory and timebaseThe maximum samplerate is 1Gs/s but it is divided over the channels. With 2 channels enabled the samplerate drops to 500Ms/s and with 3 or 4 channels enabled it drops the samplerate to 250Ms/s. The same goes for the memory. There is 28Mpts of memory but with 3 or 4 channels enabled the maximum memory length is 7Mpts.The timebase can be varied between 2ns/div to 1000s/div. With the graticule being 14 divisions wide this means it can record over 3.8 hours. This can be handy to check a battery charge or discharge cycle for example. Together with peak-detect you can still catch any short spike. Roll mode can be enabled or disabled. When enabled it kicks in at timebase settings of 200ms/div and slower.One thing which is annoying is that when pressing the auto setup it also switches the memory length to automatic instead of the user selected setting. I prefer to stay in control of the memory depth.There is also a high speed acquisition mode to achieve the highest waveform update rate. The highest I managed to measure was around 22000 waveforms/s at 50ns/div with the memory length set to auto. But it is a meaningless number because a different memory depth and time/div setting will give a lower waveforms/s rate (on any oscilloscope). Doing a video capture while operating at the highest waveforms/s doesn't slow it down but that is no surprise since the Samsung processor probably just pipes the display output into a hardware video encoder.X-Y modeThe X-Y mode seems to work well. I've made a video capture where I used two sine waves with a difference less than 1Hz. The reason I choose this example is because X-Y mode is very useful to spot phase differences between signals which carry nearly identical or closely related frequencies. Think about a PLL locking onto and tracking a reference signal.Video:BandwidthI measured channel 1 at 2mV/div and 100mV/div with 10MHz as the reference frequency using a 50 Ohm terminator on a tee. At 2mV/div the -3dB bandwidth is 136MHz and -20dB is at 280MHz. At 100mV/div the -3dB point is at 126MHz and -20dB is at 265MHz. All in all the frontend filter isn't rolling off very steep resulting in quite a lot of aliasing when using 3 or 4 channels at 250Ms/s.Channel settingsWhen pressing a channel icon the channel settings menu opens. The channel settings allow to set a scale factor between 1:1000 to 10000:1 and you can select between voltage and current. I have a model with the 500uV/div option so I can set the sensitivity from 500uV/div to 10V/div (1x probe). The usual DC, AC and ground coupling setting (GND coupling just writes 0 instead of the ADC output) is also here. The bandwidth selection is between full, 20MHz, highpass and lowpass.Acquisition modesFor some reason the acquisition settings (sample, average, envelope and peak detect) are in the channel settings menu(s). At first glance it seemed to me that these can be set for each channel individually (that would be neat!) but no such luck. After looking closer there is a colored box around the channel specific settings which doesn't extend onto the acquisition settings. It is interesting there is also an envelope mode. Envelope mode is similar to peak detect with the difference that envelope mode shows the min/max values between several sweeps and that peak detect shows the min/max values in the sample interval (sampled at the maximum ADC conversion rate). I also checked whether peak detect in roll mode using a 16ns wide pulse every 5s. At 5s/div the pulses show up nicely. Ofcourse the samplerate is too low to see the actual shape of the pulse but the idea of peak detect is to see if narrow pulses occur and to prevent showing false waveforms due to aliasing at low samplerates.Signal noise levelWith a 50 Ohm terminator to 'short' input the noise is about 90uVrms and 950uVpp when set to 500uV/div, 28Mpts, 1Gs/s and full bandwidth. Not bad and no surprise since it is on par with other oscilloscopes which use the same chip. Ofcourse things improve with the 20MHz bandwidth limit on (500uVpp / 50uVrms) but I like to see how much junk enters through the front end. After all a scope which needs to have bandwidth limiting enabled all the time isn't much use.TriggeringThe smallest signal I managed to trigger on is 750uVpp (100kHz sine wave). At a less sensitive setting it is more clear that a sine wave which is 0.4 divisions in height is enough to trigger on. Besides edge triggering there are the usual triggers you find on a modern DSO and the protocol decoding triggers.UART protocol decode triggering:MeasurementsThe measurements menu can be opened by pressing the measurements button. Adding and deleting measurements is simple. Active measurements are shown in a row under the available measurements. Pressing on an active measurement removes it. What I'm missing are statistics and the ability to do gating (select whether a measurement is performed on a full record, display or between cursors). Using the risetime measurement it seems the measurements are performed on display data. I also compared cycle RMS measurement with my Keysight 34461A DMM (ACV mode) at various frequencies and the results are on par.Math & FFTThe math function is limited to +, -, multiply and divide. When multiplying a Volt and Ampere trace the math unit is set as Watt and when dividing to A/V or V/A depending on what is left right. Nice! The FFT function is also under this menu.Unfortunately the FFT function is a bit minimalistic. The length varies depending on how much of the waveform is displayed. The maximum FFT length I managed to get is 43kpts which isn't bad at all but I think that the FFT is performed on the display data just like the measurements. This oscilloscope has a lot of processing power under the hood so I expected it to do way longer FFT. When FFT is on the DC level and the level & frequency of the strongest peak (fundamental tone) are shown. The horizontal scale is shown at the math channel indicator (Hz/div) but there is no horizontal offset indication. The cursors can be used to read the level and frequency. The relatively short FFT makes it a bit harder to get the frequency resolution you want. On the other hand an FFT function which uses only a part of a signal can be useful to look at the frequency components of parts of a signal. I've made a video capture to show that where I scroll through a frequency sweep.Input filteringThe tBook mini also support input filtering. IMHO input filtering is more useful than high-res mode because the filter cut-off frequency is fixed and the filter can be set to almost any frequency. Also high-high pass filtering can be used. The filter can be set from 30kHz and higher. Unlike my GW Instek GDS-2204E the TO1104 doesn't slow down when filtering with deep memory. I guess the filtering is done inside the FPGA instead of the SoC. I did a test to confirm this and used a frequency sweep to show a long trace combined with input filtering. The long traces makes it impossible to do the filtering on the display data so this test should provide an answer. The trace shows correctly so the input filtering is done inside the FPGA and is not a post-processing function.CursorsThe cursors can be dragged individually across the screen but you can't put them outside the screen. When using two fingers you can drag both cursors to a different location. I like that because on regular scopes you'll need to select which cursor(s) you want to move and then move it. All in all a lot of messing around with buttons and knobs. Putting the cursors at a precise spot isn't hard because the cursor is tracking your finger quick enough. I did manage to reverse the function of the vertical cursors by tapping it twice quickly but didn't manage to reproduce it.Frequency meterThe built-in frequency meter can be enabled for any channel and does not depend on the trigger channel. There is one funny thing though: the frequency meter is limited to 100MHz (the maximum bandwidth). The automated measurements don't have this limit. More interestingly: when fed with frequencies way above the maximum bandwidth the frequency meter starts to display weird values. The frequency measurent based on the waveform data still works OK though but has a lower resolution.Saving images & dataTaking a screenshot is done by swiping down the display using four fingers. The 'quick save' button saves the waveform data to a file. Swiping down the display with four fingers isn't difficult but in my opinion it would be nicer if the 'quick save' could be configured for saving data or saving a screendump. Personally I'm using screenshots way more often than saving data. Still I have tried to save the data and much to my surprise only 35kpts are saved. Where are the remaining 27.7Mpts?Data can be saved to the internal 8GB storage or a USB stick. The internal storage is handy because you don't need to bring a USB stick along and it is easy to move files onto a USB stick later on. The USB stick doesn't have to interfere with a mouse even though there is only one USB connector. I tried a simple USB hub which allowed me to connect both a mouse and USB stick.DecodingNote: at the moment of writing decoding has not been released officially so nothing is definitive. Regard this section as a sneek peak!What is nice about decoding in the tBook mini is that you have two independant decoding traces which can be set to different protocols. This offers great flexibility. I've made a short video using the TO1104's video capture showing this capability. There are 6 protocols to choose from: UART, I2C, CAN, LIN and two more protocols I don't recognise (I guess work in progress or tests). CAN decoding can go up to 5Mbit/s, UART decoding can go up to 8Mbit/s. The SPI decoding doesn't require to have a CS (chip select) signal and supports 4, 8, 16, 24 and 32 bit message lengths. I'd like to see 12 bit as well but it would be even better if the word length could be set freely from 1 to 32 bit.So far I have tried UART, I2C and CAN decoding. In short: they seem to work well. I can scroll a CAN message outside the screen and the decoding doesn't dissapear so that is a good sign the TO1104 decodes all of the memory. On the other hand the decoded data changes to a question mark when zooming out or sliding a message slightly outside the window. I don't understand the reason why it works this way. The decoding trace still shows the packet marking so it is not because the protocol decoding cuts out entirely.Video:One nice feature of I2C decoding is that when zoomed in the address is marked with an R for reads (and probably W for write) and the acknowledges are shown. When zooming out the markings go away but the values continue to be displayed. The channels used for decoding may be switched off to reduce clutter on the screen. These channels are not disabled for as long as protocol decoding and/or triggering on a protocol are/is active and need the channel.Also the amount of oversampling required is minimal. I tried to decode 115200 baud at 200ks/s and much to my surprise it decoded OK. CAN showed similar results so I wonder why the maximum bitrates are so low. Also triggering on a specific UART character works but the length is limited to 1 character and no wildcards. In I2C and CAN triggering things get a bit worse. I can only set triggering to an I2C address AND data where I would expect to be able to trigger on a specific address only. Probably that part is not finished yet and there are similar inconsistencies in the CAN triggering. I can set a trigger on a CAN id (which works fine) but triggering on specific data doesn't work. I also have not been able to find a list/event display or a way to save decoded data though. I have seen nice looking list/event displays in the manual for MicSig's MS500 handheld scopes so maybe this hasn't been implemented yet in the tBook mini. Perhaps Micsig Support can elaborate on this.Setting up the threshold for the decoder isn't straightforward. It turns out you have to slide the text to the right of the decode trace up/down to open the threshold slider which looks exactly the same as the trigger level slider. If you have a decoder which uses multiple input channels then the arrows at the top and bottom of the slider cycle through the input signals to set the threshold. I've seen the threshold levels getting tucked away in awkward places on other scopes as well and poorly described in the manual (Agilent DSO7000 for example) so it is definitely one of the things you need to know.Decoding is disabled when the timebase is set to 200ms/div or longer. This probably has to do will roll mode which kicks in at 200ms/div or slower when enabled. Technically there is no reason to disable decoding in normal (non-roll) mode and with the deep memory the samplerates at long time/div settings are still high enough to do UART and CAN decoding at reasonable baud/bitrates.Overall the beta version of the protocol decoding is functional to get messages on the screen but it needs more work before the final release.Reference tracesThe length of the references traces is limited to 87kpts but the good news is that you can enable/disable, move them and make them larger (zoom in) and smaller (up to the original size). It is also possible to save a math or FFT trace into a reference trace which can be handy as well. I have used a reference trace containing an FFT result on my GW Instek to do before/after checks for a filter.LAN interfaceThe TO1104 can connect to your network using Wifi and LAN. MicSig offers a piece of software which allows to operate the TO1104 remotely and it can check for firmware updates but what else is there? A quick scan with nmap tells me the following ports are open:PORT STATE SERVICE7/tcp open echo13/tcp open daytime21/tcp open ftp37/tcp open time80/tcp open http8888/tcp open sun-answerbookA telnet session to port 8888 gets me a whole lot of garbage, ftp access is password protected and the internal webserver seems to serve a static dummy website. Overall it seems there is no real use for the LAN/Wifi connection. I was hoping somehow I could get a network connection which accepts SCPI commands in text (LXI) so there would be some way to do remote control in a simple manner (without needing NI VISA). Another potential use of the LAN/Wifi connection would be a web interface (or ftp access) which allows to retrieve files.PC softwareThe remote control program requires Windows7 (or better) and depends on NI VISA. I really hope NI VISA dies soon because nowadays it doesn't add any value and it is a major PITA (it always takes me a couple of hours to get through the entire installation process). Fortunately MicSig provides a link to the correct download (version 16.0) in the PDF they supply with the PC software so no guessing on what to download but you have to register at National Instrument's website first to get access. Then you have to download a 700MB exe file and install it. But at this stage I run into trouble. NI VISA version 16.0 requires Windows7 SP1 which I don't have. For some reason my Windows7 test virtual machine doesn't want to update to SP1 (Windows update produces an unknown error code for which even Google can't find the answer) so I'm going to skip trying the PC software. Sorry but I don't want to waste more of my time messing with stupid Windows issues. I've jumped through way too many hoops already to get the stupid program to work. Software for engineers should just be one executable you can copy to any directory and be able to run it from there without needing third party software/libraries to be installed.Retaining /recalling settingsI've switched it off and on a few times and it seems most settings are retained. The only setting not retained is when the math channel is set to FFT. The TO1104 allows to save up to 10 different measurement setups which can be given a name as well. It is not a unique feature but the touch screen interface and onscreen keyboard make it easier to access/use than on other scopes I have used so far.Battery runtimeThe specification says up to 5 hours of battery runtime. That is a bit vague so I wanted to test this with a realistic scenario. I enabled 4 channels with longest memory setting and switched on the FFT function as well and let it run until the battery was empty. I used the trigger (auxilary) output on the tBook mini and the trend chart function on my 34461A DMM to record the runtime (when the trigger signals stops then the scope must have stopped as well). It took 5 hours and 10 minutes before the (brand new) battery was flat. If you factor in some wear on the battery over time then the specified runtime of up to 5 hours is a good estimate.User interfaceI have to admit I'm not an avid smartphone/tablet user but I do see the benefit of touch screens. I think the way dragging screen elements like signals and cursors across the screen has been implemented in a nice and intuitive way. The on-screen keyboard is also easy to use. Unfortunately the buttons outside the display area seem unresponsive at some times and take several presses before they react. I guess this is a sensitivity problem for the capacitive sensing circuit Micsig used.Something else which is new on this oscilloscope are the sound effects. When it starts you're greeted by a cheerful tune.A mouse can be used as an alternative means to control the TO1104. In that case the touchscreen is disabled. I have played with this for a short while. An advantage is that the scroll wheel can be used to position traces and zoom in/out but other than that I'm fine with using the touch screen.There are two hidden menus: swiping down at the top of the screen opens a menu with all the settings (display, trigger, etc) and the measurements menu. Swiping upwards at the bottom of the screen opens a menu with a button to make a screendump, enter/leave zoom mode, choose between high speed or normal capture mode, start/stop a video recording and show all measurements for the active channel.ConclusionAll in all I think it is a nice oscilloscope and certainly one to consider if you don't want to spend a lot of money but also want an oscilloscope which just works. If you want portability but don't like the typical handheld scope then it is a no-brainer: just buy it.Initially I was slightly worried about the probe wires getting in front of the screen because of the BNCs sitting on top of the oscilloscope but that isn't a problem at all.What I've seen so far from works well and is usefull. In general it seems everything is well tested and the fact Micsig is releasing protocol decoding in stages makes me feel Micsig takes testing their gear before releasing serious. I have no idea what Micsig's roadmap or planning is when it comes to finishing decoding.I also have the feeling that the tBook mini isn't using the processing power provided by the Samsung SoC with a quad core ARM CPU for doing signal (post) processing. Instead all signal processing seems to be done inside the FPGA. On one hand this doesn't cause the TO1104 to slow down while doing things like decoding and filtering which is good. OTOH doing calculations on an ARM CPU is much easier (cheaper) to implement and it allows more flexibility. My GW Instek GDS2204E offloads a lot of processing tasks (decoding, filtering, FFT, math, etc) to the ARM CPU but it doesn't slow down to a grinding halt (far from it!). Both approaches have their advantages so it is impossible to say one approach is better than the other.For the price (US $550 *) the TO1104 is a complete 4 channel oscilloscope. I just hope Micsig decides not to charge (much) extra for the decoding when it is finished because that would make the price too high compared to competing mainstream products.Pros/ConsPros:- No serious bugs: it just works- The touchscreen makes operating the TO1104 easy- Videorecord function which seems both unique and useful to me- Compact & battery powered- Dual protocol decoding (beta version)- 8 GB Internal storageCons:- No segmented recording- No remote control (at least not documented)- No user manual (MicSig says they are working on it)- Measurements and math seem to use the displayed data- Buttons outside the display area may be hard to useComparisonIf you look at the price and specs then the TO1104 is at the lower end of the spectrum where the GW Instek GDS-1000B series, Keysight DSOX1000 series, Rigol DS1054Z and Siglent SDS1000X / SDS1202X-E are located. Each of these scopes have their advantages and disadvantages. The Rigol DS1054Z has 4 channels but it is slow to operate, the Keysight DSOX1000 and Siglent SDS1000X / SDS1202X-E only have 2 channels and while the GW Instek GDS-1000B series has 4 channels and the deepest memory of all (with all channels enabled) it has no decoding. It really depends on what you find important to make a choice. One thing is clear: in this price range you have to compromise.For me the TO1104 comes out on top because I want 4 channels on an oscilloscope (period!), decoding is useful for the circuits I design and the big screen and small form factor are big plusses compared to the alternatives. The lack of remote control and segmented recording are not an issue for me.(*) Currently the TO1104 with battery costs around 550 euro / US$550 from Batronix excluding VAT.Note: I tried to upload the videos to Youtube but somehow my account got screwed up when Google bought Youtube and I have not been able to fix that so I've used Flickr for the vidoes instead.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 05:57:00 pm
content: QuoteOnly a discount..? A comprehensive review like this should at least get a freebie!QuoteThe "find threshold" on the RTB2004 is really useful, and should be copied by all!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 28, 2017, 05:37:17 pmThank you so much ! Really nice and concise review.Its your fault, now its in my wish list.Imho, you should make a new thread for it, instead of buried in here.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 06:09:06 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 28, 2017, 05:57:00 pm+1 , to be honest Mike, your review video didn't make me wanting it, but nctnico's does.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 08:01:38 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 28, 2017, 06:06:26 pmI thought about that but decided against it in order not to get too many different threads about the same instrument.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 10:50:38 am
content: I think there is something odd about the decoding in the TO1104. Look at this picture which didn't make the cut for the review:The samplerate is 400ks/s and yet it can decode a 500kbit/s CAN stream (judging from the correct message checksum).It is almost as if the decoding is a seperate system using a higher samplerate. Once the decoding is released officially I definitely want to dig deeper into it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 11:53:13 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 29, 2017, 10:50:38 amCould be the decode engine has its own clock, and uses the digital trigger pathway maybe 3-4x baud for uart, SCLK for SPI.See if you can set different thhresholds for trigger and decode on the same channel.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:12:19 pm
content: The image already shows different trigger level and decode threshold (the 2 yellow symbols at the right side of the screen). My guess would be that the decoding is an entirely different path besides the acquisition and trigger system.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 02:05:11 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 29, 2017, 10:50:38 amSiglent could learn a thing or two from that...

author: thanasisk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 28, 2017, 05:37:17 pmThank you for the thorough review!Is the input low pass filtering an adequate replacement for high-res/boxcar averaging? Is increased bit resolution visible on the screen?Theoretically boxcar averaging is a low pass filter with very steep rolloff which i guess has much steeper characteristics than micsigs input LPF implementation...Could you perhaps show us the effect of the input low pass filtering on the micsig when presented with a 1khz sine plus wideband awgn from a dds generator with say 30 khz lpf cuttoff?

author: R_G_B_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 09:01:18 pm
content: One feature missing is a zero function Example when trying to zero out offset errors on current clamps or sensors attached to the oscilloscope. They have this function on multi meters and some fluke scope meters. I don't know why this functions not implemented as standard on all oscilloscopes.R_G_B

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:10:11 pm
content: Every oscilloscope has a vertical offset control so there you go. Also I've never seen a DC current clamp without offset nulling.

author: R_G_B_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 09:29:06 am
content: not all D.C current probes will have a complete zero offset error and will have some offset. And having a oscilloscope which is able to zero this out is useful instead of having to use the offset control on the oscilloscope be much more simple. instead of subtracting the offset.

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 04:49:58 pm
content: Excellent review nctnico, thank you.Do you have possibilities to check and photo presentation of modulated signals,PA: carrier frequency somewhere between 2 to 30 MHz modulated by audio signal?Thanks again and best wishes.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 10:12:28 am
content: This video from Elektor shows that the user interface is very responsive. I am impressed actually!Is there any news about the decoding functionality? Which protocols will be supported?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:49:49 am
content: Quote from: FrankenPC on March 07, 2017, 10:17:46 pmHave you upgraded the firmware and fixed the issue since then?If I use it on the desk, can I just plug it into the wall outlet without the need to buy the battery?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 12:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 25, 2017, 11:49:49 amYes, but I recommend to buy the battery.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 12:14:50 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 28, 2017, 05:37:17 pmThanks nctnico for the excellent review. I have a couple of questions:1. About the maximum sampling rate. In case I use only 2 channels of a 4-channel version of the scope, will the sampling rate for each channel be 500Ms/s or 250Ms/s? Is this the same with the GDS-2204E and the DSOX1102G (500Ms/s per channel since there are only two channels)?2. Any improvement with the touch sensitivity since your posting? Perhaps a firmware upgrade would improve the situation?3. I cannot find GW Instek GDS-2204E mentioned in your comparison with various other scopes. How is it compared with the Micsig tBook mini TO1104? Basically, I am trying to decide between the GDS-2204E, one of Micsig's tBook or tBook mini, Keysight's new DSOX1102G and the Rigol 1054Z.4. Is it possible to hack the Micsig's scopes to get more bandwidth like the Rigol's 1054Z?5. I suppose one cannot get the 2-channel version first and buy an upgrade kit to upgrade it to the 4-channel version. Am I right?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 12:24:38 pm
content: Quote from: AndyP on December 12, 2016, 12:01:42 pmHow can I tell which are the full memory versions? The two links you cited are broken.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 12:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 25, 2017, 12:14:50 pmI didn't include the GW Instek GDS2204E in the comparison because it is much more expensive. In think of the choices you list the GDS2204E is the most complete scope feature wise but if you have a little extra money to spend it might be a good idea to look at GW Insteks MSO2204AE which is a GDS2204E with 2 function generators and 16 digital channels. In the $500 area you always have to compromise. If you can spend somewhere around $1500 you can end up with a general purpose oscilloscope which does everything well (deep memory, responsive UI, lots of nifty features and firmware which works).AFAIK you can't hack the MicSig scopes and you can't add 4 channels later. The maximum samplerate for the MicSig mini-tbook (TO1000 series) is 250Ms/s with 4 channels enabled. The GW INstek GDS2000E and MSO2000 have 500Ms/s as maximum samplerate with 4 channels enabled.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 12:40:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 25, 2017, 12:33:19 pmThe GDS2204E seems to be the best option if I can spend that much. I guess one good thing about the MicSig scopes is that they have a touch screen. If I were rich, I would have bought the Keysight DSOX3024T or 3034T.Somewhere in between there is a TO202A with 200MHz 2 channels (2GSa/s, 90Mpts, 500,000 wfms/s) if I can do with only two channels. Honestly speaking, I don't know what specs I need and different manufacturers have different definitions. It is hard for me to make the comparison.In one of my threads, I recall somebody mentioning that for my applications (university level in electrical/mechanical/mechatronic engineering, seeing outputs from motor drivers, arduino mega or above), I would need about 150MHz.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:10:56 pm
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on December 16, 2016, 05:19:29 pmThe video mentioned a few issues: 1. Lack of fine adjustment in both vertical and horizontal time scales. 2. Random reboot. 3. Can't do pinch zoom (in the mini models only?) 4. Even an AC adapter is used, the battery needs to be in the device for it to work. 5. autoscale function is hidden rather than listed explicitly on the right of the screen. 6. lack of serial decodeI would imagine that since all the buttons are virtual buttons, it would be easier to move things around and improve the GUI than traditional scopes.It has been half a year since the video was made. Have these issues been fixed? Do they happen only to the TO1104 or other scopes made from Micsig?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:29:41 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 25, 2017, 12:33:19 pmThanks. Do you mean the following?For both the 2-channel and 4-channel versions, if I only turn on one channel, I get 1Gs/s. If I turn on two channels, I get 500Ms/s per channel?

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:41:48 pm
content: Hello EveryoneJust wanted to say thanks for posting all your reviews and videos online. We've been thinking about contacting Micsig to see about adding their scopes to our product line. Your feedback above was very helpful.Have a great day!Sincerely,Joy TorresInstruments 4 Engineersinfo@instruments4engineers.comwww.instruments4engineers.comAuthorized Rigol Distributor.Authorized Triarcy Technologies distributorAuthorized Maynuo DistributorAuthorized Pico-Tech DistributorAuthorized Micsig UK Distributor, Micsig Ireland Distributor______________________________Revision:Id UPDATE July 4 2017:We are now officially authorized Micsig Distributors in the UK and Ireland for all their products.https://www.instruments4engineers.com/micsig-to1104-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope-micsig-distributor

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 08:34:44 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 25, 2017, 10:29:41 pmYes.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:49:09 pm
content: From the specs, the TO1104 has bandwidth limit of 20MHz, high pass, low pass while the non-Mini versions do not support high pass and low pass filtering. Does that mean the mini version is better?Somewhere I read that different manufacturers have different definitions for the max capture rate and memory depth. Am I correct? I am trying to decide among various Micsig models.For Max capture rate, which would be sufficient and recommended?80K wfm/s, 250K wfm/s or 500K wfm/sFor memory depth, which would be sufficient and recommended?18Mpts, 28Mpts or 90Mpts?Between the two variables, which is more important?

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 04:07:26 pm
content: Another millennial asking the same questions in several self created threads over and over again.

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:36:52 pm
content: Quote from: hammy on June 26, 2017, 04:07:26 pmIt's not as though Millennials are the only ones who breach forum etiquette, I've seen lots of examples from every generation. As I say often to my 5 year old "We lead by example",notby face palming.I find the ongoing trope that Millennials are lazy/entitled/self centered to be incredibly tiresome and really just one step removed from racism (the idea of making oneself feel better by putting others down). I've met lots of 20 year olds who work hard, ask the right questions and spend their days facing challenges that boomers can even imagine. On the flip side I've met plenty of "grown ups" who were anything but.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:58:29 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 26, 2017, 12:49:09 pmI'd go for the deepest memory. Waveforms/s isn't important when it comes to modern DSOs. They all have enough. Memory depth can be specified in wildly different ways from memory per channel to total memory (which is then divided across the channels). Keysight is the worst when it comes to specifying the memory depth because the actual useful memory depth is 1/4 (or less than 1/8 if you have digitial channels and reference traces on) than what it says in the specification.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 07:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 26, 2017, 05:58:29 pmThanks. With the upcoming decoding feature, it seems that the Micsig scopes have all the features of the Keysight 1000x, Rigol 1054Z and GW Instek GDS-2204E plus touch screen. Anybody can comment on how they are ranked in terms of GUI?I think the Keysight 1000x scopes have 1Mpts only. For the Micsig scopes, they have 18, 28 and 90 Mpts. Is 18Mpts sufficient? If I go for the 28Mpts ones, I may need to pay twice the price.Somewhere in the forum I read that although the TO1104 has a bandwidth of 100Mhz, it can measure signals of about 250mHz in reality with slight reduction of signal strength. Am I correct?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 03:59:12 am
content: Some of you regret not buying the battery with the scope. What is the point for paying extra to get a battery if the scope is used on the bench table all the time?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 05:44:11 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 28, 2017, 03:59:12 amAs it's not mains ground referenced some use it like an isolated channel scope; that is with the signal reference at elevated voltages. Would you trust a wallwart for this use case or prefer complete removal from any external power source ?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 07:30:07 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 28, 2017, 03:59:12 amBecause you never know when you might need to use it away from the bench. Or floating. Or you may need to minmise noise.It's a lot more usefulness for a small additional cost, pretty much a no-brainer.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 10:25:35 am
content: With the battery you don't have to plug it in before using (unless the battery is empty). Let's not forget the lazyness/ease of use factor.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 11:32:01 am
content: I read that the tBook mini have all the probes connected at the top while the tBook have all the probes connected on the side. I don't know the length of the probes. If they are long, I let them fall from the top to the desk (on the back side of the scope first) and then move the probes to the front. If not, they fall from the top to the desk (on the front side of the scope). In that case, do the cables touch the screen and cause unexpected touching? Do they interference with the readings?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 03:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 28, 2017, 11:32:01 amI was afraid of that too but due to it's compact size you can have the TO1000 close to the circuit under test so the probe cables can be guided down at the back of the TO1000 without the probe cables getting too short.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 01:06:00 pm
content: Thanks. Since I need a large desk space, I made a two-level shelf out of IKEA's parts and put it on top of a desk. I plan to put the scope on the lower deck of the shelf. So, I am concerned if the cables are long enough to guide down at the back of the scope. What do you think? Could you please let us know the length of the cable with the probe not taken into account?I am in Canada right now. Is it better to buy the scope through Amazon (product to be shipped from the manufacturer's branch in Hong Kong) or directly from the Chinese manufacturer? What are the pros and cons?

author: BMCha
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 04:58:53 pm
content: If you're getting the TO1104 in North America I'd go with Amazon as that seems to be the best price (even compared to the same NA package on their aliexpress store--not sure if it's the same in CAD). I recently ordered it from the listing below on June 19th and despite the estimated shipping saying July 5-17 it arrived just under a week later on June 26.https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1This appears to be the same on amazon.cahttps://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497374616&sr=8-1-fkmr0&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=to1104%2Bnorth%2Bamerica&th=1&psc=1

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:34:12 pm
content: Quote from: BMCha on June 29, 2017, 04:58:53 pmI found this TO1104 fully loaded with battery shipped by Amazon Prime:https://www.amazon.com/Micsig-Tablet-Oscilloscope-100MHz-TO1104/dp/B0711CN4SX/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1498761154&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=micsig+TO1104

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 11:27:19 pm
content: Quote from: BMCha on June 29, 2017, 04:58:53 pmDoes yours include those colorful BNC caps?

author: BMCha
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 11:58:24 pm
content: Yes it did include those.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 01:42:02 pm
content: For the TO1104, what kind of probes are included? x1 or x10 or ones with an option to change between the two?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 02:11:48 pm
content: My TO1104 unit included 4 x 200MHz passive X10 probes.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 02:38:39 pm
content: Thanks. Do they come with an adapter that lets the tips connect to a BNC socket of a function generator as mentioned by alm in the thread "Cable to connect function generator to oscilloscope"?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 02:50:38 pm
content: No, it did not include the BNC adapters. You cannot have the best of everything in one single product.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 02:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: TK on July 01, 2017, 02:50:38 pmWhat suggestion do you have to avoid the issue mentioned in Dave's video cited in that thread?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 03:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on July 01, 2017, 02:59:36 pmWhat issue and what thread? Can you include a link?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 04:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: TK on July 01, 2017, 03:59:36 pmReply #11 in the thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cable-to-connect-function-generator-to-oscilloscope/Expert forum users mentioned that for the function generator I am using, I should not worry about that issue.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 12:55:32 pm
content: Any of you bought the Micsig Oscilloscope Bag? How is it?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 12:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on July 02, 2017, 12:55:32 pmI ordered with a bag. But it's yet to arrive...

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 12:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on July 02, 2017, 12:55:32 pmMine TO1074 just arrived today. I don't have time now to check all the functions to the fullest, but after first quick tests I must say I'm quite impressed.It is really compact, the UI is much more responsive than DS1054Z. It has all the necessities of a basic scope - deep memory, measurements, cursors, variety of triggers, serial decoders, simple math & FFT.Maybe others don't consider it so, because of a different form factor but I think that TO1074 is a serious competition for DS1054Z - for slightly higher price it has more features (500uV/div, WiFi & HDMI, portability) and better firmware (responsiveness).

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 28, 2017, 05:44:11 amI do not understand your point. Either you trust the isolation of the channels, which means the scope should be safe to touch, and the power supply does not have to provide any isolation beyond mains, or you do not trust the isolation and you should not touch the scope at all during elevated measurements. In the latter case, you probably should not use it for floating measurements at all, even on battery power.The only advantage I see for battery power on the bench is to limit capacitance to ground, but that is not a safety issue but a signal integrity issue (common mode noise). The old hanging the scope by three silk threads.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 08:39:01 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 04, 2017, 02:11:55 pmAs the question was about using it just mains (walwart) powered or getting the battery, it's clear to me that the intention is to use it floating where maybe it's not designed for such use, however many do.If one was using any HH at elevated reference voltages wouldn't it be wise to have it battery powered ?You can't trust anything that is not expressly written in the specs........elevation above surroundings,mains Gnd, max voltages etc.With isolated channel scopes all these specs are listed, SHS1000 models:CATII 1000V and CATIII 600V between two channels references?between channels reference and earth groundCATII 600V and CATIII 300V between channels reference and Multimeter input referenceCATII 300V and CATIII 150V input directCATII 1000V and CATIII 600V input with 10?1 probe(supplied probe)

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 09:42:26 pm
content: Ah, it is a non-isolated handheld/tablet. I missed that, my bad. Interesting how they discuss floating measurements in the manual for their handheld MS2xx series, and how if should be limited to 42Vpeak and 36Vrms, but not for the tablet scopes. The document about tablet scope safety is obviously 404 (not found). Are they expecting the tablet scopes to usually be grounded?I am not sure if using a battery would make it any safer. If you manage to float the instrument so far above ground to break down the insulation of the power supply (are they not hipot-tested to something like 1.5 kV?), then I am not sure if a dead power supply is the worst of your worries. At least then the GFCI (if present) might trip. There is of course the issue of the insulation resistance of the power cord. If you limit the floating voltage to sensible levels as suggested in the MS2xxx manual, then I do not see how battery vs wall wart makes a difference. I am also not sure if suggesting floating use to beginners, if the manual does not mention it at all, is wise.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 10:06:22 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 04, 2017, 09:42:26 pmYes of course.There is a lot more interest in HH/tablet DSO's primarily for one reason....they can be floated if required. Some of this stems from ongoing discussion of this topic and a greater awareness of different measurement techniques.Dave's vid on 'How to not blow up your scope' alerted many to the traps of scope measurements.....common knowledge for those that have been around a while with scopes........ and now buyers are looking for other solutions to this age old problem.Rather that spend more for truly isolated channel DSO/HH's or a set of differential probes many are opting for HH's and floating them............whether we like this or not.As users get a handle on floating scopes they WILL start to push the float voltages higher, of course at their peril and the likely causes of problems......PSU and USB connections need be identified and not used at elevated reference voltages.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 12:47:12 pm
content: Excuse me. What is mean by "floating" the scope?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 03:17:03 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on July 05, 2017, 12:47:12 pmRemoving the GND in in the AC plug so the oscilloscope ground is not connected to earth. It is a very bad and dangerous practice.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 08:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: TK on July 05, 2017, 03:17:03 pmThanks. Why people do that? I cannot understand such action.

author: paul_ius
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 08:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on July 05, 2017, 08:05:18 pmIn this video Dave explains the problem with the grounded scopes pretty well:

author: frankfan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 07:30:29 am
content: Hi,I just purchased the TO1104, and I did not found the serial decoder and trigger from the manual. The firmware version is 7.14.0.227. I am just wonder how can I use the i2c decoder. Since I did not see anywhere from the manual or the wedsite mention the support of the serial bus decoder feature. Please helpThanks

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 10:45:54 am
content: Quote from: frankfan on July 09, 2017, 07:30:29 amThe FW with serial decode is not officially released yet, but seems they will provide it if you ask.

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 03:47:32 pm
content: Just updating our earlier post in the thread. We are now authorized distributors for Micsig. If anyone has any feedbacks or suggestions they'd like us to feedback to them by all means please let me know.As our website is only a simple site we will probably only put a few on our website but we can supply the whole range.Here is a link to the TO1104 on our website.https://www.instruments4engineers.com/micsig-to1104-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscopeHave a good day everyone.Joy TorresInstruments 4 EngineersTel +44 (0) 161 871 7450info@instruments4engineers.comwww.instruments4engineers.com

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 10:01:00 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 09, 2017, 10:45:54 amMicsig said serial decoding will be available on or before 1st of August. But I asked for beta version just in case of delays or something.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 05:46:42 pm
content: I received my TO1104 a few days ago and I would like to share my mini review.1. UI is cool, but a little bit slow. Does not distract, but not "iphone" experience. But, after all, I like this touch interface and I don't want to go back to knobs (never thought I would say this one day).2. I like the way it displays information about verticals. For example, it shows 10mV/div and right there two buttons to change it. Cool! Although, I wouldn't call this a killer feature, just a good approach to UI.3. Arbitrary BW limiting. I like it, it is very useful feature in my noisy environment. Is it implemented in hardware or software?4. A bit of learning curve is present, but after a few hours of playing with it I'm comfortable5. Probes are 10x only. Well, some people claim this is an advantage (less things to break, less mistakes, no chance to overload circuit with 1x probe). Still, I'll buy a pair of cheap probes with 1x for low-speed low-level circuits. The hook does not work well. Definitely I've seen better probes.6. Stability. Mine works very stable so far. No problems with uptimes up to 4h. Software version 7.14.0.227.7. It's floating. Perhaps, this is bad when doing mains and HV stuff, but good for my pet projects, especially because I can put my probes anywhere and don't bother that my signal generator is already grounded.8. They significantly improved software over last six months or so. It differs quite a lot from what I can see on Mike's video. Very good!9. Free beta decoding option (at least for me:)). Haven't tried it yet, but from other reviews looks to be more than enough for me, I don't need advanced stuff.10. Video recording. Perhaps, not that needed feature, but "nice to have".11. No serious bugs discovered.12. Portability and size. I don't really need this, but it's good I can take it to work and show to my colleagues.13. Fast to boot. Not instant, but good.14. WIFI (haven't tested yet and I don't have this option enabled, but should be good for sharing screen captures)Things I don't like1. BNC on top are not very convenient for me. Also not very easy to attach / detach probes.2. Fan is noisy, esp. after 1h of work. I'll have a look at tear down to see if I can replace fans.3. Micsig site is not updated and in a very messy state. A lot of broken links, email didn't work for me (I communicate via aliexpress)5. Angle of screen is bad for my setup. Not just viewing angle is bad, it also perfectly mirrors my table lamp. But I put a piece of wood under the stand, now it's fine.6. Power button is too easy to press. Not good for a mobile device. But I haven't tried to carry it with me, so may be this not a problem.7. Zooming does not work when triggering normal. That's annoying because I have to manually "re-arm" trigger after every measurement.My wishlist (let me know if any of these are already present and I just was not able to find):1. May be a bit faster UI update rate? I'm not sure this slownes of UI. It might be they don't want to, e.g., load CPU too much to extend battery life / thermal performance. I'll try to check if it's possible to do something from the shell.2. Gain measurement? Phase measurement is already here, lovely.3. Force trigger. Cannot find how to do this when triggering normal.4. Cursors and scales on FFT5. Multiple math channels6. A few spelling mistakes. Don't really annoy me, just reminds the origin of the scope.Haven't tested yet:1. Networking and web UI2. HDMI3. USB4. Video recording5. Saving / exporting data. Hope it saves not just waveforms, but on-screen measurements as well.6. FFT, just had a quick look.Overall impression. So far so good. Doesn't feel like a super-professional scope, but suit my modest needs (characterizing opamps and power supplies, phase and gain measurements). I don't want to pretend I'm a big specialist in scopes and I'm very biased. And at this price range you have to make priorities. But I definitely recommend this unit for consideration. ALthough, I didn't spend much time with this scope yet, so I may change my opinion (hope not).OK, now I'll try to get shell access to see if I can do something useful from inside. Who knows, may be it allows writing own plug-ins to implement new measurements or something.PS thanks nctnico for suggesting this unit.

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 11:26:26 pm
content: exe: I have similar impressions, although I don't mind fixed 10x probes.One thing that I think is a missed opportunity is the lack of gigabit ethernet. Even NanoPi boards based on the same CPU have it. With that Micsig could do remote desktop like R&S RTB2004.One idea for Micsig came to my mind. Serial decoders are just first step, but later one could use a terminal. Adding a terminal app (launched from the desktop menu) and enabling usb-serial dongle kernel modules could be very useful in the field.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 07:03:49 am
content: Quote from: lukier on July 20, 2017, 11:26:26 pmI think so. Now I'm trying to re-enable telnet again (so far I managed to unpack firmware file using encryption key published here). Once this is done we can discuss further steps. I don't know how much bandwidth for remote desktop is needed, but even 100mb/s is enough if done properly. I'm more worried about CPU and memory resources required. It looks like it has just 256MB RAM available, this might not be enough for many ideas (like real-time screen capturing and video encoding). But loading kernel module is certainly possible. And enabling wifi (just a matter of launching the script).What I would like to try is to cooperate with MicSig. May be they won't mind enabling some of the features in official firmware. I'll write if we achieve something with new features.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 08:29:13 am
content: Quote from: lukier on July 20, 2017, 11:26:26 pmGigabit ethernet is not necessary for this kind of equipment (not even for remote desktop). The typical processors inside can't handle this kind datarate. For example: The RTB2004 reaches speeds of (approx) 12Mbit over it's network interface.

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2017, 05:38:27 am
content: Hello, Your wishlist 3, you can see it in the picture.and we also have the screen mask to make the screens displays better, pls contact our sales to get it. I

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2017, 05:41:29 am
content: To lukier.Do you mean to use the PC software to control scope by PC, we have it already, and you can download it on our official website. it can supports WIFI connection also.

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2017, 06:20:50 am
content: Hello EXE,3. Arbitrary BW limiting. I like it, it is very useful feature in my noisy environment. Is it implemented in hardware or software?---It is hardware.Gain measurement,Multiple math channels, and gigabit ethernet, RD reply me they do not have the plan to do them right now.4. Cursors and scales on FFT---we have it. see pictures here.

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 03:55:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 21, 2017, 08:29:13 amI guess that after video encoding the bitrate required is not that high, not sure about the impact on latency though. I'm not sure about the statement that SoC can't handle such datarate. I'll run an iperf test with the NanoPi 2 Fire board and report here. I know some SoCs (AFAIR iMX6) can have poor gigabit performance because of bugs.It still seems silly for me that manufacturers go to such great lengths to save $1-2 or similarly insignificant amount - GbE is standard nowadays. Keysight of course beats Micsig and other companies on penny pinching, as they ask almost 400 GBP for what is essentially a 100Mbit MagJack - DSOXLAN.This is a minor complaint, actually I like that Micsig integrated a fairly modern SoC platform into the scope, back when other low-cost brands used very outdated Blackfin or lowest-end iMX2 CPUs. Sometimes, the situation is very similar in the high end scopes, when one pays many 10s of thousands $ and gets Core2Duo with USB 2.0, seriously come on. PCs are ridiculously cheap.Quote from: Micsig_support on July 24, 2017, 05:41:29 amI'll try the app, but what RTB2004 does is live view and remote control from the HTML5 compatible web browser, no app required, see how fast it is here:https://youtu.be/mcgJSKxj0i0?t=281TO1074 web interface is pretty poor in the comparison. AFAIR the screen shot image updates every few seconds. I thought it might be the limitation of the Ethernet interface, but maybe the CPU is already under heavy usage from the scope app. But S5P4418 has a hardware video encoder, supporting for example H264, so in principle it should be possible to encode and transmit the live screen-stream without bothering the CPU cores too much.Even with 100Mbit Ethernet the hardware (SoC) should have some headroom, so I bet many features can be fixed/implemented in the software

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 07:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: lukier on July 25, 2017, 03:55:40 pmWhat's the use case for this scope requiring 1Gbps link? I'd be worried about 256Mb ram...

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 10:17:45 pm
content: I also recall 1000baseT phys to use a lot more power than 100baseTX phys. That would be an additional consideration for a device that can be battery-powered.I am actually positively surprised they did not include gigabit Ethernet. Putting gigabit Ethernet on a device that does not need it is the typical big, fancy features over functionality that I have come to expect from the Chinese test equipment designers.

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 09:45:23 am
content: Quote from: exe on July 25, 2017, 07:25:26 pmYup, another 256 MB is just few $.Quote from: alm on July 25, 2017, 10:17:45 pmHmm, good point. It seems Gigabit PHY requires four times more power. But I doubt it would be a common scenario to run on the battery while attached to the Ethernet.Quote from: alm on July 25, 2017, 10:17:45 pmMy point is that the SoC is already fairly decent and with few extra $ here and there the functionality of the device could be extended with software. More complex on board waveform analysis (quad core is there, just space in RAM for buffers), live data streaming (GbE) like a DAQ/Digitizer etc.Look how rarely there is display output (on low-end scopes) somehow and Micsig did the right thing when they've decided it is worth it to spend a dollar or so on the micro-HDMI connector and some misc components - nice touch almost for free. Here one could also argue that HDMI peripheral block and LVDS transmitters consume so and so mW more.Luckily, there is the USB host port (alas not 3.0), so one could enable support for various USB accessories. I've mentioned serial terminal app with FTDI dongles somewhere here before - I could see that useful in the field. Another possibility is a semi-MSO functionality - low cost USB logic analyzer with trigger in and out BNCs that would connect to the Aux output and one of the channels. LeCroy did something similar for their early non-MSO scopes, it was called MS-32. Apparently, it wasn't great but mostly because of buggy design by the 3rd party, not by the afterthought-like nature of the device.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:03:22 am
content: Here we come to the fundamental problem: there is simply not enough Micsig resources to implement all these features. Especially considering the price of the unit.I think, only with the help of community it is possible to deliver such a rich functionality you mentioned (although, some features are fairly easy to implement). So, I offered my help to Micsig to implement a better remote control not requiring Windows and NI-VISA (I'm on Linux, but even on Windows I'd hesitate installing such a big package), but they politely rejected. Too bad.Meanwhile I'm still trying to get telnet access and try to add more features unofficially. But no luck so far.PS I hope NI-VISA uses standard protocol. This way I still can try to implement own remote control and measurement program. Or even a web-server to access the scope from any browser.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:33:37 am
content: I do not know the connection string they use for VISA, but I imagine it is just LXI (based on VXI-11). If they were just using sockets, then NI-VISA seems like a complicated way to do that. So connecting with something likepython-vxi11might be possible over Ethernet. Getting the correct commands may be a different matter. They may or may not be SCPI compatible. Sniffing the traffic with the original software might give some insight into this. Did anyone try to send *IDN? via VXI-11?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:38:26 am
content: I tried some port sniffing but TO1000 doesn't seem to support LXI (plain text over telnet) which makes it extremely hard to control the TO1000 over the network. To me it is useless if I need NI VISA. Why the hell are manufacturs still using VXI? Even Siglent switched to LXI on most of their test equipment

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:53:52 am
content: Your statement about LXI being telnet and VXI not being LXIdoes not make sense.LXIdoes not require the telnet service. The bare minimum required (see page 66) is a web interface and a discovery service. Telnet SCPI is optional (page 68), as is VXI-11 (same page). Hence my suggestion to try VXI-11, since telnet does not work and using NI-VISA for bare sockets seems odd.I seem to recall NI-VISA shipping with some sort of VISA sniffer (NI Spy?). If it shows the connection string, you should be able to figure out the protocol NI-VISA uses (see page 68 of the LXI standard for examples of connection strings). You would need some sort of compatible Windows machine/VM to run their software.As for why they are still using VXI-11 over telnet, because it has more features like group triggers and asynchronous SRQ. HiSLIP is a more modern standard built on top of VXI-11.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:04:56 am
content: My point is: if you need a whole lot of extra bloatware to send some simple text commands to an instrument then something is wrong. NI-VISA is a major pain in the ass to setup and (for example) the version required for the TO1000 isn't compatible with the Windows 7 version I have. So how to go from there on a random PC at a customer??When I write software which talks to instruments I use RS232 ports and let my software do it's own detection. That way I can ensure my software works plug&play and there is no third party layer which can screw things up. Just keep things simple and they will work.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:20:18 am
content: If you want to rant rather than solve the problem, go ahead.While I do not love the various VISA frameworks, it is the industry standard and software from pretty much all instrument manufacturers, including Keysight and Tektronix/Keithley, uses it. For developers, the advantage is that it abstracts the interface to the instrument. You could be using serial, or USBTMC, or VXI-11, and the only thing you have to change is the connection string. So it is inevitable that any computer that does instrument control ends up with at least one copy of VISA installed, unless you exclusively run your own software. There are also (equally bloated) NI-VISA versions for MacOS and Linux if you prefer that to the Python VXI-11 implementation I suggested.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:27:52 am
content: Quote from: alm on July 26, 2017, 11:20:18 amThe problem can be solved if manufacturers have some kind of SCPI over telnet (let's call that LXI and I really don't want to go into semantics). Sending data to a serial port or over a telnet socket is equally trivial in a modern programming language. Also there is very little difference if I need to configure a serial port, IP address or connection string so all in all the NI-VISA platform doesn't really solve any problem for me. It only adds more places where things can go wrong, discomfort to download the right version (after registration on NI's website) and additional installation time.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 12:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 26, 2017, 11:27:52 amSame here, plus don't want tons of bloatware on my computer. I prefer simple solutions if they work.

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 01:06:15 pm
content: Quote from: exe on July 26, 2017, 10:03:22 amI agree. It's a pity that low-cost scope manufacturers don't open up their designs - there is no secret sauce there, ASICs or whatnot. I would like to see Hantek doing that, for example, as their hardware is fairly decent for the price but the firmware is a joke (I have their AWG and USB logic analyzer).There was the effort to reverse engineer DS1054Z and write the open source firmware (there is a thread on that on the forum), but I think DS1054Z is too limited with its CPU. Something like tBook with modern SoC or the new Zynq based scopes are better candidates.Another application that comes to my mind is python+numpy+scipy scripting capability. Similar to LeCroy's XDEV option. I could capture 28 Mpoints of data and then run my own python to process the data, generate a custom measurement or a custom math trace. It doesn't have to be real time (i.e. in the FPGA), just it shouldn't take ages (that's why it's nice to have a quad-core ARM with some RAM).

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 01:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: lukier on July 26, 2017, 01:06:15 pmThat's exactly my final goal! I'll try some luck with python-vxi11 or something as soon as I get some free time.

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 09:34:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 26, 2017, 10:38:26 amHi, NI VISA is not necessary for Micsig tbook mini TO1000 PC software, you can connect it by Wi-Fi/LAN.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 09:53:10 am
content: Quote from: Micsig_support on July 28, 2017, 09:34:00 amBut how do I send commands to it (like *IDN? ) ?

author: paul_ius
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 08:47:03 am
content: I have just received TO1074 from Batronix. I haven't had the time to test it properly, but the first impressions are very good. There are some translation mistakes here and there that I think could easily be solved by including a native English speaker in the translation process, but it's not something major. I'm just wondering if that beta software with decoding thing is still on? If so, how do I proceed to get it?

author: pmcouto
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 11:20:10 am
content: The wait is over!New software version with serial decoders is now available from Micsig.Upgrade can be performed directly from the scope – it downloads the software and installs it automatically.Now, let’s see how much Micsig will charge for this new options.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 12:34:38 pm
content: I just upgraded which was pretty painless using a network connection.I have not tested protocol decoding yet butthe definitive list of protocols seems to be:UART, LIN, CAN, SPI, I2C, Arinc 429 and 1553B (the latter two are avionics protocols)One of the things that seems to be fixed is the sensitivity of the buttons on the side of the screen (run/stop, single seq, etc). On my unit they work fine now.I played a bit with UART decoding but unfortunately it seems it only decodes what is on screen. As soon as a character is scrolled partly outside the screen it changes into a ? markAlso no event list so all in all the decoding still needs work.

author: paul_ius
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 01:55:03 pm
content: oh man, I was hoping to jump on the beta testers' train or that the feature was going to be included by default in the official update.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 05:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: paul_ius on July 29, 2017, 01:55:03 pmWell, I have serial decoding options enabled (at least it shows the menu), but I haven't activated my serial decoding key yet. So, it might work for everyone. Fingers crossed!BTW, guys, it looks like the latest firmware solved my issue with the scope switching on on power loss. I'm yet to fully test this, but it looks like it wakes up when supply is on (shows stupid battery animation) or off (just shows micsig logo), but then it switches off again (or is it a deep sleep or something?).

author: paul_ius
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 06:17:37 pm
content: Quote from: exe on July 29, 2017, 05:17:36 pmI have the menu as well and it lets me to activate it, but when I try to read the data I can't see the decoder line anywhere.

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 07:51:29 pm
content: Quote from: paul_ius on July 29, 2017, 06:17:37 pmThat's how it works if the option is not enabled.

author: paul_ius
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 07:44:30 pm
content: I wrote an email to sales@micsig.com asking about the decoding feature and the guy answered that for TO1074 it can be purchased for 37.99USD and that I can buy it through batronix. Not sure about the pricing for other models.

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 10:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 29, 2017, 12:34:38 pmYou can lower sample rate to the point where bits are not visible in the waveform, but decoding still works.For example, try UART @115200 and 20 kSa/s sample rate.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 10:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: kirill_ka on July 30, 2017, 10:07:49 pmI already tested that myself so I really don't understand why decoded data dissapears from the screen. On one hand it seems the decoding happens inside the FPGA but on the other hand it only decodes what is on screen.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 06:17:45 am
content: Darn, I just heard from micsig sales that the tBook mini TO1104M (28Mpt model) that I bought a few months ago won't support decodes. Decodes are only supported on the tBook mini TO1104Amusingly, the updated .bin file is named "TO1104M Firmware Program, Version Info 7...227" but it dies with "Version of upgrade package was wrong!" so sales is probably right.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 06:52:21 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 31, 2017, 06:17:45 amSorry if I missed it, are M and non-M models different inside (never seen M-models in tear downs)? Ask sales if you can upgrade your unit (may some soldering required). Or, may be you can arrange an exchange...Concerning firmware. I believe all models use the same file (I checked this with MD5). The firmware file is rejected if it's not newer than the version installed. BTW, here is what written in the firmware header: "TO1104,TO1074,TO1074M,TO1104M"

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 07:21:42 am
content: Quote from: exe on July 31, 2017, 06:52:21 amAs I understood, firmware is different between 2CH and 4CH models. Also 5, 6, 7 in fw version seems to be related to hw revisions. Recent hw revision is 7 and all 4 channel models (M and non M) use the same firmware.Update: I might be wrong that all current models have the same hw version... The fact is that firmware is chosen based on "hw version", not the model name.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 08:03:32 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 31, 2017, 06:17:45 amI think you already have version 227. The latest version is (IIRC) 273. I assume the M version has no network connection? With a network connection the update process is easy.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 11:55:05 am
content: Micsig is offering promotional free serial decode package 1 (UART, i2c, SPI, CAN, LIN) to buyers of TO1104. Without the promotion, price for the package is $36.99 (USD).

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 12:10:28 pm
content: Quote from: TK on July 31, 2017, 11:55:05 amFinally I don't regret paying extra for TO1104.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 12:24:51 pm
content: QuoteWould you happen to have a copy of the .bin? I can't find 273 on the downloads page and the network upgrade assures me that "Current version is latest!" even though I have 6.11.0.192 installed so both 227, the version on the downloads page, and 273, the version reported by nctnico, should be newer.If that doesn't work, I'll definitely go poking around. Thanks for the info on the header -- there's enough version confusion from Micsig's direction that it's worth investigating, and thanks to Mike's wonderful teardown video I have an excellent point of comparison

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 01:02:23 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 31, 2017, 12:24:51 pmTake a look at xml, it contains direct links to current firmware files.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-tablet-oscilloscope-tbook-mini-to1000/msg1093979/#msg1093979

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 01:15:01 am
content: Thanks for the link, krill_ka! The secret was to ignore "upgrade_TO1104M.bin", download "upgrade_TO1104.bin" on a flash drive using the URL from the .xml (there is no TO1104.bin on the official downloads page), rename it to "upgrade_TO1104M.bin", and run itCode:--------- Gory Details --------Model: TO1104MVersion: 6.11.0.192Auto upgrade: "Current version is latest!"http://www.micsig.com.cn/upgrade/config.xml* = had <model>TO1104M</model> tag! = 404 Not Found!upgrade_TO1104_V5.bin: 5.0.125upgrade_TO1072.bin: 6.1.273*upgrade_TO1074.bin: 6.1.273upgrade_TO1102.bin: 601.1.273*upgrade_TO1104.bin: 601.1.273upgrade_TO1102M.bin: 701.1.273*upgrade_TO1104M.bin: 701.1.273Effects of placing on flash drive and selecting UDisk Upgrade:upgrade_TO1072.bin: (short pause) "There is no upgrade package!"upgrade_TO1074.bin: (short pause) "There is no upgrade package!"upgrade_TO1102.bin: (short pause) "There is no upgrade package!"upgrade_TO1104.bin: (short pause) "There is no upgrade package!"upgrade_TO1102M.bin: (short pause) "There is no upgrade package!"upgrade_TO1104M.bin: (long pause) "Version of upgrade package was wrong!"Effects of renaming to "upgrade_TO1104M.bin" and placing on flash drive:upgrade_TO1072.bin: Didn't Tryupgrade_TO1074.bin: Didn't Tryupgrade_TO1102.bin: Didn't Tryupgrade_TO1104.bin: ******** WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! ***********upgrade_TO1102M.bin: (long pause) "Version of upgrade package was wrong!"upgrade_TO1104M.bin: N/APost-upgrade:Model: TO1104MVersion: 6.11.1.273After the upgrade it automatically listed WLAN, UART, LIN, SPI, CAN, I2C, and 1553B in the license list and showed the S1 and S2 traces, but activating them does not draw a decode trace, even after several different attempts to capture SPI, RS232, and I2C. Further investigation is necessary.EDIT: if we ignore M and non-M, the versions make more sense (shocking, I know). I have revision 6 hardware while others have revision 7. Does anyone have working decodes on a device with HW version 6? Does anyone have a TO1104 with HW version 6?EDIT 2: SPI and UART data triggers work, even though the decode traces don't show!

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 12:59:33 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on August 01, 2017, 01:15:01 amDo you see all the protocols as ACTIVE when you enter the passcode? If you get any error message, then you need to verify if you entered the passcode correctly. If the protocols are not active, you can trigger but do not get the decoded information on screen.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 03:57:13 pm
content: I never entered a license code, I just upgraded the FW and they appeared, presumably because I have a 1104. Picture of the license screen:https://photos.app.goo.gl/5s9Hkz8IBj88eKBn2

author: enz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 04:09:05 pm
content: Items on the left are NOT installed.After you enter a license code (and reboot), the protocol names will move to the right.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 04:35:26 pm
content: Ohh, that makes sense!Thanks.

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 03:22:03 am
content: I just on the business trip in Japan, hearing Micsig's new arrival decoding function which is exciting, I can't wait to upgrade and try it.I also got their official post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-tbook-mini-to1000-serial-bus-trigger-and-decoding-functions-are-available/In which, seems TO1104 can get a free upgrade, it's lucky for me that I brought TO1104 instead of TO1074.

author: newnet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 05:00:10 am
content: Thank you for the news. How did you get the license code of serial bus decoding?

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 06:07:16 am
content: Quote from: newnet on August 08, 2017, 05:00:10 amYou can leave comments at their official post which I mentioned before. If your scope is TO1104 you should get a free upgrade, if not I'm afraid you may have to pay extra.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 08:18:06 am
content: Quote from: jacklee on August 08, 2017, 06:07:16 amAIUI I think the situation with other models may be that the option is not available.

author: R_G_B_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 12:55:39 pm
content: its approximately 37 us dollars to add the serial decode functions to the lower bandwidth model such as the 70 MHz Tbook mini versionyou can pay by pay pal to sales@micsig.comIf they release the SDK so that people on this forum or else where users can code in there own functions to this oscilloscope such as trend plot for 2 or 4 channel trend\data record function would be a very useful function.R_G_B

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 10:29:02 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 08, 2017, 08:18:06 amM models are restricted from installing options. Non-M, non-1104 models can purchase a license.

author: newnet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2017, 05:45:40 am
content: Thanks,I‘m trying......

author: newnet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 10:47:36 am
content: Quote from: jacklee on August 08, 2017, 06:07:16 amI've obtained the license from Micsig_support, now the functions are enabled.Thanks again.The attached picture is just a show of test,

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2017, 02:07:41 am
content: Quote from: newnet on August 12, 2017, 10:47:36 amthanks for your sharing.Any customers who want to the bus decoding, pls let me know freely.

author: pmcouto
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 12:01:22 pm
content: Serial decoders in action.Thank you Micsig_Support for sending me the license key.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 06:37:07 pm
content: BTW, concerning bundled probes. I tested them against PP-150 (perhaps, cheapest probes on market). I used my SDG2042X to generate some 120MHz 1Vpp sinewave. Bundled probes showed 576mV, PP-150 showed 792-800mv peak-to-peak. So, I replaced my bundled probes with PP-150 (I bought five of them just in case and one come already broken, he-he).The test was crude, I used long wires, ground leads, crocodile clips, etc. So, not the most accurate setup (because I lost my the only probe bnc adapter I had). But I suggest replacing shipped probes if measurement accuracy above some tens of Mhz is important. Anyway, I don't mind if someone repeats my measurements.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 08:07:15 pm
content: I finally got a minute to mess around with the scope to get remote control working from my laptop.I tried python-vx11 on this scope. Unfortunately, no luck (but I might be doing it wrong, I have no idea what vx11 is). So, I tried to install NI-VISA on my linux box... and it failed to install due to problems with .net framework. But I managed to get RemoteDisplay.exe working by copying visa32.dll and NiViSv32.dll from NIVISAruntime1.cab . It does not display the picture from the scope, but scope reacts on virtual buttons. So, at least something works for me.Quick check showed communication is done via port 8888. Another "funny" thing is the scope spams my local network with "discovery" packet from UDP port 58002. The protocol is binary, but I can see it has ascii strings with model number (TO1104) and the scope's serial number.Also, I can now at least press buttons remotely. It's enough to connect to port 8888 and send a "cmd" which is 24 bytes data. For single capture it is '0x20000000900000101000000020000000900000100000000', for example.Hope this will help hacking the scope. I'll continue my experiments... when time permits. But it would be super useful if Micsig just posted the protocol format.

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 07:12:41 am
content: I see micsig published their android app, I wonder if they would publishing an IOS version because I only use apple phone.Micsig oscilloscope seems becoming more like the smart phone, honestly, I was surprised when I see the scope phone app.Does anyone tell us if their app is useful? Or just a useless bauble?Anyway, I still looking forward their iPhone app.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 07:30:55 am
content: Quote from: jacklee on August 31, 2017, 07:12:41 amIt's not available via Google Play so it's not checked for viruses etc (although Google's validation is not comprehensive)...Looking at AndroidManifest.xml it only requires Internet... I'll give it a try tonight.

author: kirill_ka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 08:22:56 pm
content: Quote from: exe on August 20, 2017, 06:37:07 pmWhat type of probes do you have? Mine are P130A 200MHz fixed x10.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:21:42 am
content: Quote from: jacklee on August 31, 2017, 07:12:41 amGood news: it works. Bad news: it either requires a lot of bandwidth or a lot of CPU (or both). So my phone discharges quite quickly and it is not smooth when a lot of screen area updates. I think it just captures video and transmits it. I think it's an android equivalent of their TouchScope / RemoteDisplay program (that requires VISA-NI).For sure it is usable for single captures, but for continuous update my old android phone (nexus 4) is not enough. But it can be my just my phone.EDIT: typos

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:51:56 am
content: Quote from: kirill_ka on August 31, 2017, 08:22:56 pmI have the same. But my test setup might be wrong due to long wiring.

author: newnet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 01:38:15 pm
content: Quote from: jacklee on August 31, 2017, 07:12:41 amHere comes the good news. Micsig has published their 1st iOS version remote scope app today,without doubt it is useful, apple user can search and get it in app store.I use android instead of iOS, so I'm not sure if the iOS app has enough kinds of language.

author: newnet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 02:08:16 pm
content: ios app interface

author: jacklee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 09:41:37 am
content: Quote from: newnet on September 11, 2017, 02:08:16 pmGood news! I also tried it on my iPhone, it works as supposed to be.I also see their video presentation of this function:https://www.youtube.com/embed/Iha74VzYEaESomeone may be interested in.

author: luedno
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 01:46:39 am
content: Hello still recommends micsig to1104, has portuguese language, i am in doubt between micsig to1104 and rigol da1054z

author: angleshrinker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 08:52:33 am
content: Hello Micsig.А week ago I bought an oscilloscope sto1104c on aliexpress.I received a refusal from the seller on request for bus decoder unlock.This is despite the fact that in the product card bus decoder specified without any "option" mark.I looked and saw that all sellers describe Micsig oscilloscopes in this way.For a week the seller has been delaying communication, and yesterday said that Micsig refused to provide unlock codes.What should I do? I don’t need such oscilloscope without Bus decoding features.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 09:03:20 am
content: Quote from: angleshrinker on November 13, 2019, 08:52:33 amYou might like to try this topic as it is the more current and sort of the default onehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-tablet-oscilloscope-tbook-mini-to1000/Micsig does check it and reply from time to time as well.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 09:54:54 am
content: Quote from: angleshrinker on November 13, 2019, 08:52:33 amDid you buy from the official store? If so, I'm afraid you reached their main point of contact (probably the same lady replying here on the forum). You'll have to convince them.Having said that, let me share my story. When I bought my scope, there wifi option was paid. After a year I decided to buy it, and activate all the other options. Guess what, wifi is now for free. So, I got wifi for free. However, other options got proportionally more expensive, and I wasn't given detailed explanation what they do (I'm talking about automotive features), so gave up on them.

author: angleshrinker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 10:20:18 am
content: QuoteOfficial store have no devices on local country store and shipment cost from china ~$150.I bought from generic ali seller, he sad: "our product is not fake"

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 11:33:00 am
content: Micsig offers different bundle options at different prices: basic (no battery, no options), basic + battery (no options) and the full version that has battery and all options. So it depends how much you paid. Buying the options shouldn't be expensive, more than what you have paid if purchased bundled, but not expensive at all. The scope is definitely capable of having all the options activated by passcodes generated after sale by micsig. Ask the seller how much for only the options purchased after sale.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 11:36:44 am
content: sales@micsig.com or asia@micsig.com

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 10:21:52 pm
content: Quote from: angleshrinker on November 13, 2019, 10:20:18 amBut not as described so send it back and get a refund.

author: angleshrinker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 10:31:22 am
content: Dispute results I need send it back and lose $80+ on backward shipment.It is a very wise dispute resolution. They never pay for his mistakes.As alternative is to pay Micsig $38 for unlock.PS. Aliexpress store name is "Shenzhen SuperDeal Technology Co., Ltd."

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:44:13 am
content: Quote from: angleshrinker on November 19, 2019, 10:31:22 amAs I said before, it all depends on how it was listed by the seller and what you paid. You need to look for the PLUS which is the bundle that includes all the options and the battery. If you paid for the PLUS, then you deserve to have the unlock keys for free.

author: angleshrinker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 12:15:11 pm
content: QuoteI believed what the seller wrote.Chinese people, of course, cunning people.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 06:07:01 pm
content: Quote from: angleshrinker on November 19, 2019, 12:15:11 pmLets keep the politics out of this please.

author: pmaggi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2020, 06:56:08 pm
content: Does the android firmware version work on TO1104 apart from working on STO1104?If it does, is it available to update on it?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 09:48:15 am
content: Quote from: pmaggi on February 02, 2020, 06:56:08 pmDo you mean the phone app? (TO1104 is not based on android)

author: pmaggi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 11:40:28 am
content: No, I was talking about the device itself, but Micsig just confirmed me that TO1104 doesn't support Android system at the moment. Only STO1104C support it.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 01:28:56 pm
content: Why do you think STO1104C is based on android? From what I see on youtube, it's exactly the same ui as on to1104.

author: pmaggi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 02:30:48 pm
content: I tought the same that you, but after seeing this videoI got a bit confused.So I asked Micsig about it and they answered me that only STO1104C line suport android firmware.As you can see in the video, aparte from the common interface of TO1104, this firmware version also includes extra functionality like electrical calculations, calculator, web browser, etc.I was thinking of buying a TO1104, but now I have a doubt about whether it is worth buying an STO1104 instead of it.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 02:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: pmaggi on February 03, 2020, 02:30:48 pmWow, it really looks so. Thanks for sharing. I wish they upgraded their TO1104 line (not sure what else to add there, but I like the product and would like it to be around as long as possible).

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 04:21:17 pm
content: There's a new version for the STO1000C:"Smart STO User Manual.pdf" (10MB, AND IN CHINESE!)https://is.gd/NWFPpgAnd a new STO1000E:http://cn.micsig.com/html/list_63.htmlhttps://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=603948720898

author: vladsol
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 12:04:40 pm
content: Is there a way to purchase \ unlock an "Automotive" License on TO1104 ?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 12:18:49 pm
content: Ask support on their official aliexpress store, or write to sales@micsig.com .

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 06:51:53 am
content: Great thread and kudos for the thorough user-reviews, highly read-worthy.But it looks like this thread and the other main thread here, are all based on the Linux based TO-version.Any thread for the Android STO line?Picked one of these up from China (BG) at the start of the year, when you could slash the price by another -20% with these user-purchasable coupons (I reckon it was not intended, as it was removed soon after, and now the price changes too some elevated MSRP that you then get this given percentage off.)Though all these options seem to be mandatory and installed from scratch (at least on my unit) only the 1553B and the 429 are not present and those cost like way more then the scope itself.For a fraction of over 400bucks (USD), I think its the best portable bang for buck scope on the market tthat delivers the best balance between portable battery scope that can also front as a bench scope, without driving you nuts., even at normal MSRP here in Europe its a very good portable scope IMO with good buildquality and very decent modern board design and component quality when you have the price in mind, and I love the portability with battery implemented and you can easily put it away when done in the Micsig tablet bag (30USD) where you can have you current clamps and your cables and probes. (ideal in lack of a specific bench)Though if Micsig are watching.Would make it even better if you could make the 256 grading feature valid for one of the X or Y knobs at the right top, perhaps thrue the shift button, as it is a vital feature I use a lot and the X & Y knobs are mostly used for cursors.Here basic fool around from a noob perspective..Pictures (link) since I got it, as it is quite easy to upload to either YT or to other places with the inbuilt browser..(I get a lux/nits reading that peaks at 414, and the wireless App-latency I recall were around 0.250ms from scope to tablet or PC)https://imgur.com/a/bZKztlLAlso apreciate that you on the fly can plug scope-value into a spreadsheet' on the scope itself with the office-like app that is in the Micsig App market but these apps will take its toe on the scopes loadup-time, though would be nice if Micsig implemented some more apps in their Android App-market but mostly a dedicated knob to the 256 levels of grading I really miss, so the user doesn't have to go through the menu each time.Any Android STO-owners that have been able to sideload generic android APKs.? (looks at first glance like its restricted)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 08:53:58 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on December 01, 2020, 06:51:53 amNot yet.It looks for APK files but if you try to install one it says,"Install Blocked: Your administrator doesn't allow installation of apps obtained from unknown sources".It also doesn't respond to the usual tricks for enabling developer mode.Maybe we could ask Micsig about this. I want to turn mine into a huge HP15C.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 02:46:34 pm
content: There was this thread about STO series:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-sto1104c-tablet-scope-with-knobs-on!/ , although it's very short.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 03:06:08 pm
content: Quote from: exe on December 01, 2020, 02:46:34 pmThis video is cool!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 03:11:34 pm
content: And check out the serial decoding:

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 03:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 01, 2020, 03:06:08 pmIt's a good demonstration to show that the knobs aren't needed at all.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 04:06:42 pm
content: Quote from: StillTrying on December 01, 2020, 03:57:40 pmAfter owning one for a few weeks I'm starting to think they added them just to placate people who think an oscilloscope won't work properly without knobs. I find myself using them less and less as time goes by.

author: Pfriemler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2021, 12:56:25 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 01, 2020, 08:53:58 amDid anyone?I would like to run additional apps on the android surface, like- File Manager with FTP upload (Total Commander with ftp plugin) or something like that- Electrodroid - like the Electronic Tool, but much more informations inside- a PDF reader (for the user manual there must be something like that, but PDF on a USB device do not open)If there's any workaround, I would higly appreciate this.

author: MustardMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2022, 10:07:52 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 01, 2020, 04:06:42 pmI've had mine for about 12 months and, in my opinion, knobs on a scope are still veryveryworthwhile. Yes, there are lots of things that are easier to do with a touchscreen and are very annoying with knobs (eg: back and forth scrolling when zoomed), and some things that are easier to do with knobs and are annoying with a touchscreen (eg: fine adjustment of position, either horizontal or vertical, setting trigger thresholds).After having a scope with both, I don't know why I put up with "just knobs" for so long, and multi-level menus are an absolute PITA!But after trying to doeverythingwith a touchscreen (eg: TO1104), that is almost as annoying!Cheers, MM.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2022, 02:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: MustardMan on July 19, 2022, 10:07:52 amFor fine adjustments, touch the thing you want to adjust (to select it) then use the "fine adjust" buttons at bottom left.I admit that there's a few knobs/buttons that I still use. There's also a few that I don'teveruse.

author: MustardMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 01:19:36 am
content: Indeed, I hear you.Sometimes what I use (button/knob/touchscreen) comes down to what I'm looking for, how free my hand is, and familiarity. Sometimes I reach for a knob by feel without taking my eyes off the screen, give it a click left or right, or a quick twist, and done.Something I find annoying is wanting to do something (like move a cursor), touching the screen, and find it has selected a waveform instead. Or wanting to move the 'zoom' window and dragging the trigger point instead. I suppose that is my fault and if I did it all day everyday I'd know exactly where to touch (or not) to get what I want.My biggest bugbear is having to "shift" to use the knobs for the cursors.I do note Tektronix now has a "2 series" which looks very similar to the micsig STO. Knowing Tek, the UI is very likely more refined. The 'lesser' brands from China (no matter what the product) always seem to fall a bit short in that department. Pity the Tek "2 series" are so expensive, otherwise I'd probably get one.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 02:15:44 pm
content: Quote from: MustardMan on July 20, 2022, 01:19:36 amNot from what I've seen.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-next-gen-tektronix-scope/msg4232623/#msg4232623

author: MustardMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 12:50:49 am
content: Yeah, I jumped onto a couple of product demonstration videos and noted the Tek UI is not that good at all. I think the complaints levelled in the post you linked are probably nit-picking a bit (the "s" doesn't line up with the numbers, inconsistent dialog box widths...) but there are some things I saw in the demo videos that were justyuk. Micsig has it all over Tek on some things - like slide bars for percentages and inertia scrolling - who the hell requires numeric input for things like that? Oh, Tek does!It would seem that micsig is now going to be putting all their effort into the 'gen 4' and 'gen 5' products which means the STO 'gen 3' 'scope is probably going to stagnate. I would dearly like to see it with nameable channels, and for them to fix that stupid "shift to control the cursors". I think the micsig is the only scope I've ever used that does the "shift" thing! I really doubt that the firmware (or at least the UI part of it) will ever be made available for enthusiasts to improve.By the way, I don't see any firmware update downloads on the micsig site?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 07:49:39 am
content: Quote from: MustardMan on July 21, 2022, 12:50:49 amIt shows that no UI designer ever looked at it. They're the sort of things that a UI designer would see instantly.Quote from: MustardMan on July 21, 2022, 12:50:49 amIf only there was an app for that...