What is this laser-coating-ion-sputtering-sprayer-metal-deposting equipment ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 09:46:19 pm
content: I have never seen one of these before but right now as we speak I am saving the money up to buy one it's that cool. Looks like spray paint but with LASERS!!!! My guess its a machine that sprays out some sort of charged metallic ions for making thin metal layers on a base metal substrate, then using the laser to affix them to the substrate. The gun is positive or negative with respect to the work piece depending on what chemical is to be applied. Maybe also inert gas comes out but the distance to do that is too far like in a TiG nozzle. Then a CO2 or IR laser blasts the substrate after its coated with the product bonding it to the base metal. Since its a cylinder block I'm guessing its like a nickel alloy coating to improve wear in the engine.https://youtu.be/pIFjHyGmbCY?t=142I wonder what goes through the hoses.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 09:55:53 pm
content: im pretty sure thats a rust burning laser thats just cleaning the part. look on the bottom left side of the part i am pretty sure its some shit they pulled from the trash, nothing would arrive like that for any advanced process. the only time I ever thought of that (putting garbage infront of expenisve plasma streams) is to restore shafts with metal deposition and regrinding but i was never sure how pourous or good the shaft would be (if mismachined or worn).given that its a red and blue hose its process chill water.anything you describe is either done in a vacuum or extremely bright to my knowledge.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 12:47:00 am
content: There are a number of companies offering laser "Cleaning" systems where the laser burns off crap and leaves the bare metal. The fact that some of these are handheld units would make it hard to imagine OSHA giving there nod of approval in the USA, but China and many other places no problem.In a more controlled environment like an enclosure that prevents any reflected light for escaping I see no problem, but handheld ... nope!Brian

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:55:55 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 07, 2018, 09:55:53 pmThat looks like the head they pulled off an engine and certainly not from the trash, that actually looks like a fairly new engine. On second thought it may just be burning off the oil, so they can put the head back in the engine. But if that part was trash you would see a lot more deposits and rust on one of those parts is only when it has been sitting outside for years after the oil has had time to evaporite and wash off. They would be insane to throw that in the trash in that condition. Probably part of an engine rebuild. The only rust I see is on the valve cover studs which is normal as they stick outside the engine where there is no oil, and the nuts strip off any rust resistant coating plating or oil. .

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 10:18:59 am
content: It's a Q-switched laser. The laser energy is absorbed by anything that doesn't reflect it - and it vaporises.Just look up laser rust removal, laser cleaning or laser paint stripping for a whole range of examples.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 02:43:03 pm
content: there are rusty parts on the left side , im 99% sure its trash

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 09:19:57 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 08, 2018, 02:43:03 pmI don't think you have done many engine rebuilds. Engines from the north in the US look like that after only a few winters. Most of those rusty parts get replaced when you rebuild.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 03:21:54 pm
content: yea but you don't put anything like that into anything other then a cleaner

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 04:20:03 pm
content: That is an aluminium cylinder head the threads on the bolts have some surface rust, not enough to make that trash, so it must be some form of surface prep. going on.https://youtu.be/dvS3BHFPfaM

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 06:08:35 pm
content: The one in the first video is a roughly 4 Kilowatt Q-Switched Fiber Laser system (means the lasing medium is a long coil of doped fiber optic) with a high rep-rate coming out to a cooled fiber wand. It was detailed in an issue of a laser trade magazine a while back. Picking the proper laser safety glasses and safety suit to be laser scatter and reflection resisitant is an interesting activity to say the least.In the first pictures of the system I saw, the operator was manually using the wand like a torch or power washer in tests.Q-Switching means you block the lasing cavity, store the population inversion in the lasing medium, and rapidly unblock the laser cavity, for generating pulses on the order of nanoseconds. Usually done with an acousto-optic modulator. The peak energy is thus huge. It does not work for all types of lasing mediums, but that medium has a storage time of around 300 microseconds.Finding a brave (or stupid) enough operator and ensuring their safety is another issue. In my opinion as some one who works with more then his share of high power lasers, that video scares the crap out of me. That task just screams robot arm.Your supposed to get Safety Class IV Laser Power down to Class I for operators with 100% reliability of the safety system. Generally at those power levels, that means using an enclosure to ensure safety.While I'm sure the suit is reasonably safe, I wonder how long it can take a direct hit. We like to never depend on the operator's situational awareness in classical laser safety.The hoses will have coolent to keep the wand and optics cold, and an assist gas to keep the lens clean and possibly aid in the cleaning. Assist gasses can be air, oxygen, or inert depending on the task and type of laser. In some cases a stream of co-linear gas is used to blow material out of the heat affected zone. In other cases it may be to oxidize material in a laser induced flame or plasma. What I see here is just keeping the optics clean and blowing dust away.In this case even the scattered laser light is one heck of a long range eye hazard.Steve

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 07:11:58 pm
content: you made me feel better about not having enough money

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 07:29:37 pm
content: ANYTHING Q switched is IMHO an eye hazard, never mind a couple of kW average power Q switched, that is just adding insult....I wonder how many video camera sensors they go thru making these videos? Those things don't much like laser up em either.I have played with doing this sort of thing with an old arc pumped ex medical 'KTP' (Steve will know the machines to which I refer) butcherised into a 1064nm Q switched setup, I kept blowing out the OC, but it would sort of work at the ~150W level. Really need to get around to reworking the cavity on that to get the power density at the output optic down by an order of magnitude or so (No this was not a first pulse suppression issue, wise to that one).I suppose I should try it with a 'greenlight' instead (Yes, contrary to popular belief you can get them to go without the card), at least you can see the effin' scary reflections with that!OD7 or so, ANSI certified is your friend, that and wool suits with wool full face hoods (Wool because it self extinguishes and chars instead of melting, think marine firefighting kit).Play safe, you only get one pair of retina.Regards, Dan.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 07:35:20 pm
content: do you really need to wear scratchy wool?thats disgusting. Are the burns that bad? welders leather maybe?

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 09:57:12 pm
content: Well those surgical lasers are in the 50 - 100W sort of class and are used exactly because they will take chunks out of you....By the time you hit a kW or so it all just becomes more so.Personally I want something that ablates (And ideally with lots of smoke) rather then transmitting the heat or worse melting, but your choice. Having 100% skin coverage is good too!I am sure standards exist for laser resistant clothing, but for messing about in the shed I just grabbed something I had that made sense to me (I really own that gear for fucking around with live steam).Regards, Dan.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:00:32 pm
content: whats live stream in regards to laser equipment?

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:14:37 pm
content: Live steam is why I own the fireproof gear.You don't mess around with 100PSI steam and forced draft coal burners, wearing kit that makes you fire (and slightly steam) resistant is a GOOD thing...Regards, Dan.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:26:07 pm
content: oh steam I thought you said Stream.Whats that used for? Heating? The pressures sound kind of high. By like 95 psi.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 11, 2018, 10:26:07 pm100 pounds is pretty low by industrial standards. I'm going to guess steam locomotives?

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 11:31:03 pm
content: I work in a lab that uses ~ 40 PSI steam to power undergraduate experiments for a class. Steam and High Pressure Hot Water is awesome for transferring heat long distances. In our case, much more convenient then electric heaters.Seven Kilowatts worth of energy fits through a simple 1/4" steel line for the last few feet and the safety protocols are much easier then trusting 130 students per day with taking care of three phase heating elements around a vast amount of water that is boiled for the pilot plant training.Steve

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 11:39:47 pm
content: Stationary pumping plant actually, but yea locos have some of the same issues.Time was it ran at more like 250PSI, but while we were happy to get the boiler tested to that, the feedwater pump needs a teardown and rebuild before we can actually feed the thing at that pressure, and we do not really need the performance (The real pumping having long since gone electric).Personally Steve I would take the three phase, less likely to invisibly reach out and melt someones face. A three phase RCD (GFCI) is a thing and you can raise the source impedance to limit the energy available, live steam takes no prisoners (But arranging for a rupture disk to blow in the presence of a bunch of undergrads is probably good for seeing who has good plant survival instincts).Regards, Dan.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 01:47:23 am
content: IMO with swagelok or something it would be pretty good so long the tube is good seamless stainless, and it gets inspected. I would also suggest double walls.What is interesting about steam is erosion from dirty sources, NYC recently had a big blow up with steam, very old pipes went boom. They claimed the old steam system had tons of 'carbon' type deposits in it and stuff. Apparantly city steam is pretty dirty.I always wondered with a steam loop, can you get particles of oxides that form in the pipe to abrade it like sand blasting over a long period of time?I would not use it either though and instead opt for electricity. Sounds like you should inspect it alot though.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 03:06:21 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 12, 2018, 01:47:23 amIn industrial plants the boiler feed water is carefully treated to avoid corrosion, erosion and other problems. However, in a city like NY with miles and miles of old, underground steam pipes, who knows what crud can accumulate down there?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 03:43:16 am
content: well the story I heard about the nuclear boiler industry is that they would sen blasters with dynamite into the boilers to descale em. Knew someone that did it. Did not really inspire confidence about treatment.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 03:44:20 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 12, 2018, 03:43:16 amI don't think that really happened. It sounds more like a myth than a true story.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 03:55:07 am
content: I spoke to someone who said he did that for the reactor near west point. Family friend.But they will say whatever officially because offatpensions believe me.Civilian nuclear industry is full of weird practices and lack of spec checking etc. Get to know people in their supply chains and you will hear the stories too. I know not much (in terms of dirty laundry) of whats going on in the military side of things. At least not from the mechanical side of things like boilers and pipes.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 04:06:24 am
content: Boilers might need descaling from time to time, but they are not going to use dynamite. The goal is to clean the boiler, not blow it up

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 04:15:44 am
content: I don't see why he would lie about it. I even asked if they were worried about stress fractures and he claimed it was calculated. The idea was up time and cost. It made the manual work much faster after the explosives basically cleaned it off.I am still going to take his word over everything because I know how much BS and lies there are in industries anyway. Whatever you want man I just get information from people.Oh man and if you wanna hear about chemical industry shit being shady, talk to some people that worked with agent orange logistics/acquisition and use in the military during Vietnam. And pesticide stuff in eastern europe right now.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 09:54:38 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on December 11, 2018, 11:31:03 pmWhat's the heat used for? With a name like LaserSteve you automatically get credibility in my book.Yeah in that second video he's not even wearing gloves. Seems stupid considering lasers bounce off silver objects and once treated with the laser the metal becomes very shiny. I'm actually surprised that it works on the shiny metal, or maybe that's how they get the laser to only take off surface deposits and it stops when it get to the shiny metal.Does wavelength play a part in what kinds of material you can cut/treat? Cool thing about organic materials is that even a piece that is clear can be cut since it breaks down into a black color, provided you have a small spec of dust to start the process going. My thought was that a silver surface was impervious to lasers. Those lasers seem purple which is how IR looks on digital cameras, so IR laser maybe? OR is it a purple/UV laser?Since IR is basically heat and heat is what does the work in cutting I never understood why shorter colors work at cutting, often times better. MY blue laser burns a lot more then my green one and I think they are same wattage or the green one maybe even higher output wattage. Seems like red lasers don't burn at all or at least not at powers that I have seen.