Choosing a career - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: AlexR
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 03:02:19 pm
content: Hi,I`m a student at the Faculty of Automatic Control in Bucharest. It is rated as the best engeneering faculty in the country. I`am wondering what career path should I chose.I like electronics and I like to program microcontrollers, I can do some OOP programming, I can write basic Verilog code, I meet concepts as 'stability' every day.My question is: do I have chances to go further with electronics ? I did a few electronics projects, like a linefollower robot but I wonder how much I need to know to do good in this industry.In Bucharest there are a lot of jobs for software but I`am not really into all that web, database and high-level programming. Also, there a not as many electronics-related jobs around, and I wonder if not graduating from a Electronic/Telecomunication faculty is a big draw-back for me.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 03:38:35 pm
content: every country is different but what I see here is that HW electronic jobs are getting scarce since much is now designed and made in the far east, low level embedded programming and OO programming is also moving in rapid pace towards esp. India where >100000 programmers a year graduate.But that is for the large(r) corporations/companies. So my advice try to be as broad as possible if you really like HW also learn how to program emb. uC's but also emb. Linux boards and get after graduation in contact with a small/medium companies that keeps on doing things on their own.Probably you'll end up with a broad job doing more than one discipline and having broad knowledge gives you more chances on the jobmarket.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 04:22:48 pm
content: Quote from: AlexR on January 12, 2016, 03:02:19 pmIn general it's easier to switch from hardware to software than vice versa so an EE degree with some complementary courses in CS will give you the most options.You are planing for a career of 40 years or so and the industry will change a few times along the way so a wide theoretical background will make it easier to adapt.One more advice, once you get your degree, don't restrict yourself to jobs in your locality/country.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 04:41:50 pm
content: My degree is in EE, but I've barely ever worked as what you would consider an EE, and ended up in computer networking and programming these past 27+ years. Part of that is that I was always interested in computers as well as electronic design, but I knew that I did not want to study programming algorithms in depth for a typical CS degree, and part just how things worked out at my first post-university job. My boss at the job was an EE from Romania who moved to the US for more opportunities. Over the years I've dabbled in EE stuff, but it was running across Dave's YouTube channel that has really sucked me back into the EE side. At this point in my life though, changing to an EE career is most likely out, I'm doing well as a computer consultant and have 13+ years in with the same firm, and not too many places would want to hire a 50 year old green EE.Best thing I can say - keep your options open. Life rarely turns out how we plan it. I had two job offers I was considering post graduation, and the one took too long in getting back to me after offering me an interview. That would have been a pure EE job, on the opposite side of the US. The one I took was more local and led me more to the computer side of things, and as such I've lived and worked (outside of business trips) within about a 50 mile radius of where I grew up. I just think about how everything would have been different had I gone with the other place on the opposite coast. Maybe better, maybe not. I'm generally pleased with my lot in life and to wish it were otherwise is an exercise in futility.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 06:34:04 pm
content: There's a lot to be said for going with what you enjoy the most (as long as it will pay the bills).As zapta said it is a lot easier for a H/W engineer to get into S/W than the other way around. Electronics + embedded code is a happy medium, but seems increasingly hard to achieve these days as many companies seem to try to split H/W and S/W teams.It's good that you have the basics of Verilog, In terms of job prospects, there always seems to be a demand for H/W engineers who can do FPGA. With increasing levels of integration, I can't see that trend changing anytime soon. Remember that it's important to remain 'well rounded' - hands-on stuff and practical analogue, but I think you have the inclination to do that anyway (even if in your own time).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 06:37:31 pm
content: I can only speak from my personal experience.I got my various qualifications and I was told that I should go into electronics research and development as a career. For me that sounded a bit like being a hermit in a lab...... No thanks.I trained as a Merchant Marine radio officer in order to tour the world looking after radio kit on a ship, which was a passion of mine. Sadly the British Merchant fleet was in decline and so I was recruited into a Government department that needed my skill set and ability to work independent of oversight and guidance. I have seen more of the world in my career than my brother, and he is in the Royal Navy !I wanted a career that I would enjoy, even if it meant I would never be rich from it. I have had a good life working in very interesting specialist areas that you would never find in general industry. Job satisfaction was ever present in the role and it provided plenty of challenges for the mind.What I am saying is that you need to decide whether you want to chase the money, moving from employer to employer to increase salary, or whether you want a long term job that you really enjoy and that has rewards other than money. I have just retired at age 47 and have no regrets regarding my chosen career. It was a wild ride, I have learnt much and seen many areas of the world and it's different populations. If I had been stuck in a lab for 27 years I think I would have missed much valuable life experience, and maybe regretted it. I am not rich, but I have been able to retire at 47 with a nice new 4 bedroom home and wonderful wife....... Not a bad result and I hopefully have plenty of years left in me to 'play'.Never forget the importance of the Work - Life balance. Your life is too short to do a long term job you do not truly enjoy.Fraser

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 06:51:59 pm
content: It is very difficult to plan a career - real life tends to shift around you.My approach has always been to stay technical and do what I enjoy doing. If you want to make money then you are probably better off moving onto a management path but then it is difficult to keep doing the technical stuff you enjoy.My first degree was in Engineering specialising in Electronics, I then went into research in Microwave Integrated Circuits and went on to join with a couple of other engineers to found a company. We had a lot of fun but the GaAs industry disappeared from the UK and so I shifted to Computer Science.Whilst you are young, get a job doing that you enjoy (Electronics/Software) - just be careful not to get in a rut. If you find you're not doing anything new and are not being challenged then it is time to move on or work for yourself or whatever life offers.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:32:05 pm
content: Choosing something "trendy" usually a safe bet - you will get good kick start in career early, you just need to check if trend is the long term one.Mechatronicsis a very good promising choice now. I am not sure if your local schools have this course.Control Systemsis good old discipline that will give you broad choices of where to go in future. Avoid things like Computer Science - it may attractive in terms of employment, but it limits choices that you can make in future. You can always go into Software Development if you choose with an EE degree but reverse is very hard.

author: cobbler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 07:13:36 am
content: Make sure when you are searching for jobs you have a targeted resume.Do a survey of the job market and take notes... Note every technical job you are remotely interested in... your notes should end up with some rough numbers like this:1% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in microwave experience2% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in board layout8% of jobs are for sw developer strong in C++10% of jobs are for sw developers strong in mySQL and PHP/Python15% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in testing25% of jobs are for electronic engineers strong in Verilog, Mechatronics, C++40% of jobs are for sw developers strong in .NET and SQL ServerAfter you have those rough stats compiled it is time to write 7 separate HIGHLY TARGETED resumes.For all the electronic resumes, write verbosely about every programming language you've ever touched, make it at least two pages full of every damn keyword and buzzword you can possibly think of. Use a thesaurus to make sure you every possible variation of these keywords and buzzwords. But most of the language should not be buzzwords, it should describe in excruciating detail every electronic project you touched since you were ten years old. Mention EVERYTHING technical- programming, electronics, design, testing, etc. From the stats above, you should have 4 targeted electronic resumes. Each should be targeted to the specialty: microwave, boards, testing, mechatronics.For all the programming resumes, write verbosely about every programming language you've ever touched, make it at least two pages full of every damn keyword and buzzword you can possibly think of. Use a thesaurus to make sure you every possible variation of these keywords and buzzwords. But most of the language should not be buzzwords, it should describe in excruciating detail every software project you touched since you were ten years old. Mention 97% only programming/db/sysadmin. Max 1% mention electronics. From the stats above, you should have 3 targeted programming resumes. Each should be targeted to the specialty: C++, PHP/Python/Mysql, .NET/SQLSo now you have your 7 highly targeted resumes. Create two more named:Software.docx - 4 pages and is rollup of ALL keywords for every language/dbElectronics.docx - 4 pages and is rollup of ALL keywords for every electronic specialtyPost those two resumes to every single major EU related web job board you can find. Since these two resumes are loaded with keywords the frontline hiring folks will find your resume first. You have cast a very wide net with this approach.TIP: If you login to every job board and edit your DOCX resume (just add a hidden period char)... this updates the "lastModified" date in the job board SQL table.... Most job boards SELECT * FROM resumes WHERE keywords LIKE '%{kewords}%' ORDER BY lastModified DESC.If you are diligent and update these two resumes every day on the job boards then recruiters should start contacting you. They will say- "We are looking for an electronic engineer strong with testing." Note their contact info and visit the company website. Read the job description really carefully. Open ElectronicsTesting.docx and do a one-time edit that speaks directly to the Job Description. Now send this turbocharged highly targeted resume and make sure they pass that on to the real hiring people. That will increase your chances of having your resume escaping the trashbin.So now your two mega resumes are on all the big EU job boards. Time to start applying for jobs. For every job you are interested in read the job description carefully and edit the targeted resume to speak directly to the Job Description. This will increase your chances of having your resume escaping the trashbin.When you are not job searching... lock yourself in your study and do every single project you can think of, touching on the things that interest you but also get experienced and familiar with the things that don't interest you so much. For example you may not be excited about electronics testing, but since 15% of the jobs are for electronics testing it would be wise to get really truly experienced with that first. Good way to get your foot in the door.Totally ignore these two resume "rules"1) Keep your resume to one page2) Don't put your picture on your resumeMake sure your resume is at least two or three pages, and has your professional photo in the header.I have 43 targeted resumes and they are all 3-6 pages long. Never been so employed in all my life.Writing resumes really well is probably the most profitable thing you will ever do in your lifetime. And the most realistic way to get the job you are looking for. There is a real art in balancing the bullshit and writing really, really well.HTH and good luck mang

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 10:16:07 am
content: People like to give lots of opinions and suggestions on subject like this. It is hard to avoid common pitfalls in your career in the beginning but they can be corrected. I found few things that I think I should have done better myself1. What matters in engineer's career most isPROJECTSthat you worked on. People in industry often judge others at first by association to projects and companies. Example - for a physicist to be part of Manhattan project was a super great deal. For a computer engineer to work on system like IBM 360 or Tandem (later HP Non-stop). etc. etc. Reality is that even if your role was only printing documents and stapling them together - it does not seem to matter - involvement with notorious project will open doors for you like nothing else and then it depends on your personal abilities how you use it! So find one like this - you will never regret, but to do that you have to be ready toquit your job no matter the pay if project is boolshit. If you keep looking and ready to start - something awesome will pop up, you cannot predict what it will be now so don't even tryIf you start too feel comfortable about your job/pay and don't want to move - this is it. It is the begging of the END of your career.2. To start career you need aMENTOR(s)and/or futurebusiness PARTNER(s)- if your new job does not provide you with any of these then move on, fast - there will be no career without those. If you got a job and your boss likes you, promotes you, ... but he/she cannot be your mentor and there is nobody around to learn from - you are too young to get stuck there. No, courses, boot camps and books do not replace professional mentors!3. Right out of school - you are fresh on everything, your math, physics, your control theory etc. Try to use this opportunity to get some "credentials". For example in U.S. that would be Professional Engineer certifications etc. It is sooooo much harder to do 5 years after graduation.4. You will never, ever be happy with your career if other people make decisions for you ALL YOUR LONG LIFE. Think about starting your own company early!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 10:35:53 am
content: In my experience, good engineers doing technical work tend to drive a used ford focus, with some loan on it. Complete morons clicking around in Excel and ERP tend to drive stupidly expensive cars, which they can afford.I think I will go back to school to do a MiM or MBA, and play with electronics in the corner office.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 11:13:13 am
content: I can only say that I would learn from my mistake and avoid accidentally ending up writing business software for a living. Most of my team is ex electrical and mechanical engineers. The cash is really good but it's a depressing tar pit of pain and we all lament the days when we had firesticks and lathes instead of ThinkPads, facepalm imprints and dodgy necks from all the slow head shaking we have to do.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 06:21:26 pm
content: O, I forgot to mention the most important thingYOU MUST MOVE TO US PACIFIC COASTto have any good engineering career with decent pay. Unfortunately Europe is ...Don't even make me to start comparing average salaries for engineers in LA or Seattle to Europe.Money is not the most important thing even - Pacific Coast is the place where all things engineering happen now. That is the place where you can meet 5 different multi-billion VC in cafeteria at lunch.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 08:42:17 pm
content: QuoteWhy do you stay in Canada when you can earn more money and you stay an important corporation?That is a stuff that impress me , when i hear news that important corporations moves out the California to Texas

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 10:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on January 15, 2016, 08:42:17 pmWell ... this is where am on weekendsAlso you can be missing my point - if you are new engineering graduate - Pacific Coast, LA, is place to be. If you do well then you can later choose place where you would like to live.Texas - they move headquarters there, legal address, registration for tax purposes. Today it is Texas tomorrow it will be Rhode Island. Companies often change registered business location to get better deals on taxes - it is often purely symbolic, it does not mean R&D departments with engineers move too. In Canada some companies moved their headquarters to Alberta for same reason - but everyone would still go to office in Vancouver every day.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 04:22:41 am
content: Very interesting thread

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 09:40:25 am
content: Quote from: MrSlack on January 15, 2016, 11:13:13 amOk business software is another end of the spectrum. But reality is that every modern product is 10% hardware and 90% software fte. That is the opposite of thirty years ago.So writing embedded software or ontop of an embedded OS is probably more realistic then HW.Sometimes I regret it but now it starts to change when I see my HW colleagues have no freedom att all anymore and again for the third time in three years need to redesign the same product with each time a target of half the BOM of the previous product.They don,t like it at all, it means they have to let go of their engineering pride and start to make less good products because the BOM target is way too low.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:16:51 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 15, 2016, 10:35:53 amThe tragedy with this is, that while you'd be virtually guaranteed to get the degree, you'd be miserable while attaining and putting it to use. It's the fate of people who don't follow (or don't know) their interests. I'm not one of the lucky who enjoy juggling money and public relations.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 08:55:20 am
content: QuoteThose systems are largely obsolete!! Unless you're planning on doing niche work, you almostdon'twant to have them in your resume...QuoteOnecannotget a Professional Engineer (PE) certification "right out of school". By law, most jurisdictions require a minimum of 4 years of post-University professional working experience (in a job position requiring an engineering degree) as a prerequisite to a PE designation.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 12:05:28 am
content: Quote from: ade on January 17, 2016, 08:55:20 amIt is a good idea to take the FE while in college/graduating while your skills are fresh.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 01:20:34 am
content: Quote from: ade on January 17, 2016, 08:55:20 amOf course they are obsoleteI could not give an example of project if it has not been started yet. If you just starting your career you need to look for a team that GOING TO create next "nuclear bomb", "next tandem" etc. What is going to be as big as those in future? Perhaps some company like D-Wave?Or in other words you cannot shoot a duck or a plane if you aim right at it - you should aim in front of it. I think same principle applies to building a successful career.Look at hype curveBACK from 2009- you see Tablet PC and other stuff, so If I was looking where to go in 2009 I would look at things on the right side of curve, not at the top of it. It is trivial thing but I noticed that many graduates I have met at work miss that completely.Quote from: ade on January 17, 2016, 08:55:20 amYup, as someone already noticed - I referred to FE exams.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 09:18:00 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on January 17, 2016, 12:16:51 amRight now, I'm doing like 10% of my time engineering tasks. The rest is data entry, library maintanance, some oddball soldering here and there (technicians), verification (engineer assistant), and a bunch of tasks, which should be done by managers.I am told that I'm a good engineer. Corporate recognizes that. As an engineer, to work effectively, to put the knowledge into use, to be able to make decisions which matter, you need to become one of the manager positions. Otherwise you are stuck with mundane tasks, becauseeverycompany in capitalism cheaps out on support staff.I remember, I was talking to a guy, he was working in the bad communist era, as an engineer. He told me, he had a secretary and a apprentice working for him, in his office. They were there, because everyone had to have jobs, and this way he could focus more on the actual engineering tasks. You don't get that in capitalism, you need to be a manager to do that. I had to learn this the hard way. It is sad.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 05:50:29 pm
content: I will take a totally different standpoint from my earlier advice: donotlisten to anybody on this forum, they and I are the old garde, the people that do and did the old jobs.Go take a look for what is needed for in and after the next "Fourth Industrial Revolution" and be sure you are flexible to jump in at the right time.Quotehttp://reports.weforum.org/future-of-jobs-2016/http://reports.weforum.org/future-of-jobs-2016/chapter-1-the-future-of-jobs-and-skills/

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 06:09:44 pm
content: I have yet a different take. Don't try to predict the future. Don't worry about any job revolution, and definitely don't look at Gartner et al to give you direction on what's coming (they don't know).Instead, use your time at universityto build solid fundamentals. Cast a very wide net... not just of math, physics, chemistry, comp sci, circuits, etc., but also literature, music, sociology, business, or whatever else interests you.Then you don't have to care about the changes which are coming because you have the foundation to go anywhere.This is the big difference between the university system and the vocational school system (such as a technical college). In a vocational program you learn skills and technologies which may be directly applicable to particular job descriptions, but those skills and job descriptions may become obsolete.In a university program, you build fundamentals through liberal education. You learn not to fit yourself to any particular career or job description, but so you can adapt to whatever opportunities may come in the future.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 06:16:15 pm
content: Unfortunately a "homo universalis" is extinct since the rennaissance. You need indept knowledge and experience in a certain area, you can't be a rockstar in all fields of life.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 08:08:58 pm
content: QuoteYes, but arguably one'sundergradis not (and should not) be the time & place to specialize. Pick afield of study(I'd recommend EECS if that's what interest you) but cast a wide net, as above. As an undergrad one has theluxuryto learn a variety of subjects. That luxury might not come again for a very long time!!Specialize later on, either in the workplace, and/or through a Masters program, etc. Many companies offer new graduates a "rotation" program where you get to work in different areas during your first year. That would be a fantastic way to start a career.Otherwise, one might as well get vocational training, get a job as a technician, and go on from there. That's a fine path as well.Just don't stop learning.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 09:16:58 pm
content: Quote from: ade on January 18, 2016, 06:09:44 pmThat is sound advice.I would add that it is highly beneficial todemonstratethat you have put such theoretical knowledge to practical use. That means doing a project in your own time, which also has the advantages that you will learn lots (i.e. make mistakes!), demonstrates that you areinterestedin the job and are not just a time-server, and gives the interviewer something to talk about (not to be underestimated!)."Doing a project" = choose, define, architect, implement, test - and be able to say what you will do better next time.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 09:18:32 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on January 18, 2016, 06:16:15 pmIf you specialise too soon then you are creating your own obsolescence.Often - but not always - you have to specialise in your job. You shouldn't be doing that during a first degree.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 09:41:59 pm
content: I am not sure if a person who started the thread still interested in itI can see two distinct groups of people who are posting suggestions here. One group understood "having a career" to be in category of "having a job and be happy with it" which is at level 2 (from the bottom) in hierarchy. Another group of people understand it as "having aCareer" as something of an achievement, creativity, respect and recognition which is at the top of pyramid. Obviously these are two completely different things. Job != Career.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2016, 09:54:27 am
content: Quote from: Alexei.Polkhanov on January 18, 2016, 09:41:59 pmIDK, I usually dont get sex at work.I know that self realization and satisfaction with the job would be a very important part of my life, but no matter where I turn, I dont get those. Right now, I'm working with a bunch of untalented people, a greedy and cheap management, and I cannot have a side project at work. I had bore-out, not burn out. This will go on for another two weeks when I stand up and start working somewhere else. I had the carrot hanging in front of my nose for at least two years now. We could have made world class billion dollar projects, which I would have been proud of, even though management would have screwed it up completely. And honestly, I have no way to vent my frustration.

author: cobbler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2016, 03:19:09 pm
content: I think it is good idea to never talk about any sidejobs because it will usually lead to resentment and mistrust. Once you start working somewhere for a little while ask if you can telecommute a few days a week.Then a month or two later request full time telecommute.Then you can start double or triple dipping (working two or three fulltime jobs simultaneously).It is so easy to do when 99.9 of technical work is waiting on other people... and the few times you do need to really work you can do it 10x faster than everybody else.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 08:51:31 am
content: +1 for that. Done that for years.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 06:29:47 pm
content: Actually sounds like a pretty good gigQuote from: cobbler on January 19, 2016, 03:19:09 pm

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 08:00:50 pm
content: I don't believe that the malsow's pyramide can apply in this context. When originally the malsow pyramide was a study of how motive to workers for increasing the productivity in the factories.Today , I don't see the logic from the malsow and i see very simplistic, because a people can to be at high the pyramide and he haven't properties neither job.And opposite case , a people has a stable job and very fine relation with his environment(friends and familiars), but he is a survival situation.Paradox,the person is in three level at same time(3 level, 2 level and 1 level).

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 01:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on January 20, 2016, 08:00:50 pmIt's Maslow.QuoteNo that wasTaylorQuoteThan you don't understand the Maslow theory, first of all Maslow never used a pyramid, he used levels. And he never said that you can not have some of the conditions on one of the higher levels without having all of the lower level. He just says that a human being is more motivated to complete the lower levels before reaching the higher levels. It is about motivation!QuoteThat is just as Maslow states, you are motivated to reach to achieve a higher level after (partially) succeeding in the lower,You are probably less thinking about being respected by someone else (level 4) when you are having hunger living on the street in a warzone and can be killed any hour of the day (level 1 and 2 not met).But as anyone knows, a war hero could well be in that situation but if he had a choice he probably would rather end the war, and have a good meal