Idea For Laser Soldering - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 06:06:21 pm
content: Not a new topic in the commercial space, but was kicking around idea to DIY a handheld laser wand for pinning or soldering components. It would be a slow process compared to commercial robotic systems, but it's also DIY build. The main idea is using laser diode array fiber coupled, it runs very low power to create a visible strike dot on the target, then a button press to for a power pulse to do what's needed.Thoughts?

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 06:08:25 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on September 30, 2024, 06:06:21 pmHow good is your health insurance; and if you're selling kits, liability insurance?

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 06:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: uer166 on September 30, 2024, 06:08:25 pmSelling kits? Health insurance?No, and health insurance is up to you.This project would discuss applications, diode wavelength, power needed, wand design, optics, holders-fixtures-jigs, control using an MC, safety, etc. It would be on you to source the parts, aka "DIY".As example, pinning smd resistors to an sma connector when making precision Rf load module. Another could just be melting solder paste on items where soldering irons and ovens can't be used.I don't know yet what the power requirement would be. 1w in 1mm2area is quite a bit different than 1w in 5mm2, power density, etc. So actual power needed really depends on the target spot wanted, but I see many of the commercial systems will use 1mm2as the target area for delivering optic power.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 07:09:54 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on September 30, 2024, 06:06:21 pmMy first thought is differences in reflectivity and thermal mass, not scorching the pads off the board. It must work of course for there to be commercial systems.

author: unseenninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 07:14:14 pm
content: I fail to see the benefit of using an extremely dangerous laser for this application.What benefit does this bring over all the currently existing ways of soldering which don't put the user's and bystander's eyesight at risk?

author: Manul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 07:41:39 pm
content: Emboss the buttons of the device with braille symbols, so people can use it for a long time.

author: vivi-d
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 07:50:25 pm
content: A laser might be nice to have when soldering BGAs. Especially if you have BGAs on the opposite side. Hard to heat a board and solder one BGA without the other one on the bottom falling off. The laser would just heat up the package of the BGA which is enough to melt the solder (according to IPC). I haven't ever tried this though...

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 08:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: unseenninja on September 30, 2024, 07:14:14 pmSuch device can be used in many types of applications, I just named one for soldering. Hermetically sealing is another but would likely need 50-100w of optical power in a tight spot to weld metal.In some cases, soldering components in Rf modules leads to unwanted effects. If we can solder just a small fillet "weld" from smd edge to board tinned pad, you gain some performance (or take out unwanted affects).Obviously the process is turtle slow compared to commercial robotic/CNC systems, but for the DIY'er doing one-off projects I think a tool like this could be beneficial.I guess applications are broad, and would likely be limited to power and ability to aim the wand.I am not sure why there's worry in high powered handheld lasers, they sell handheld laser welding apparatus today that you can buy, it can weld metals up to 0.080" thick and beyond, they even have wire feed units too.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 10:00:14 pm
content: MiJing WLS-301https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005003800873309.htmlI would not touch that thing because you'd want to be wearing protective glasses whenever it is in use.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 10:31:14 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 01, 2024, 10:00:14 pmSo wear protective glasses, makes sense for safety.But that's close to what I am talking about, thanks for the find. That one only makes a 6mm or 10mm spot, which is ok for some stuff, but I am thinking 1mm spot that you pulse to hit just a small spot.Can it be DIY for less $?https://youtu.be/ifu6k9FKjZ8

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 10:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 01, 2024, 10:31:14 pmThe cost for two 15W lasers is in the $200 range. I don't know how you fiber couple those. I wouldn't bother.If you want to DIY, you can do DIY IR stuff cheaply.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 11:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 01, 2024, 10:38:10 pmThe fiber coupled is a module that is already built. Wavelength and power are the unknowns. Perhaps just a 30w module would suffice.I was thinking more on the individual pin level vs the desoldering process, but it is possible to have both in one system.With pulsed power you can get a weldment without creating any HAZ, we know power delivered is related to watts x time. A slower heat gives time for the surrounding area to heat up (HAZ), which I think we can avoid with more power in short pulse.I think my 1st test is to buy a laser diode fiber module and test pulsing it using PSU and an MC for control.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 11:27:01 pm
content: You seem to want a hand aimed device. Human hands aren't notable for their pointing accuracy and stability, particularly when pulling a trigger. If you are willing to accept machine control of the laser safety becomes much easier and packaged solutions are already available at moderate cost. They are called laser cutters. Developing the fixturing to hold the board and program solder locations becomes the task and isn't that hard.Perhaps a more fundamental issue is how the heat is delivered. The commercial products deliver a tiny spot, which may be appropriate for heating a single lead on a small component. But optics delivers that heat very inefficiently to reflective surfaces. What doesn't get delivered to the solder or lead bounces to unknown locations. PWB material happens to absorb the light pretty well so you could easily burn the board without making the solder connection. This isn't a purely hypothetical issue. Both my son and I own laser cutters and have had wiring in the cabinet severed by random reflections. It certainly motivates me to keep the cabinet closed whenever the laser is on.If the beam is defocused to provide heat over a BGA package the problem of heat transfer is magnified. Low power density and coupling which ranges from OK to terrible.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 12:23:45 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 01, 2024, 11:00:09 pmIf you know they exist, can you link the sources you found.I see a few on ebay, again in the $200 range, without any drivers or accessories.

author: jbb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 01:48:29 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 01, 2024, 11:27:01 pmWell that’s disconcerting. Does it just burn through the insulation and lead to a short circuit, or can it sever the copper conductor too?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 03:23:30 am
content: Quote from: jbb on October 02, 2024, 01:48:29 amIn one case burned through insulation and caused a short, in the other case burned through and unclear whether damaged conductor or if arcing from five volt supply.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 02:25:41 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 01, 2024, 11:27:01 pmLet me try and put things back into the correct context.1) Safety would be part of it, no different than buying anything else that you can buy now. Safety would be in the design, like glasses, clothing, perhaps a cabinet, etc.2) Next is "handheld". I am not wanting to build lots of jigs with stepper motors and cnc programming, and I am not talking about just holding the wand and blasting things, although I guess you could. This is a wand style one shot idea, you steady the wand, aim it to a spot, make a weldment, very slow process, perhaps more in realm of "slow precision". The wand itself would be small like this pic of a dremel wand attachment, but in the process of using the laser there would be a holder for the wand, you aim the dot to location and the make a pulse to do the work. The laser wand would look something like this pic. As for commercial tiny spot, I have seen some vids where user is actually doing handheld work and the fiber is in a clear poly tube, the poly carries a shielding gas and the tip looks like a big syringe end (plastic lab type), user just puts it right up onto the spot to be welded, and a pulse comes.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 11:57:34 pm
content: When you get into laser diode fiber bundles, such as FC-Bar etc, you learn very, very, quickly that back reflections from shiny metal and certain optics cause the output face of the laser diode(s) to blow off from excess energy density and resonances. So, even with high power optical isolators, polarization schemes, etc.. You run the risk of sudden and complete laser diode death, Since by definition your aiming at a potential molten metal mirror, even a tiny amount of stray laser light returning to the laser diode(s) can/will result in damage, if not a full on laser casualty.Hence why you do not see inexpensive laser diode based soldering tools.Not to mention that coupling 808 nm near IR laser diode wavelength (typical surplus diode for ND:Yag or ND:YVO4 laser pumping) into solder, which averages 60-90% reflectivity in the near IR, is very, very difficult to achieve. Once it starts to melt you'd need to ramp up the power very fast to continue the melting process.Even with Optical Density Six, very professional, very expensive, very broadband, laser safety goggles the eye hazard to you and those around you, is huge.Not to mention the NOHD (Nominal optical hazard distance) for a roughly collimated fiber output laser might easily exceed two hundred feet.I once was installing a 7,000$ diode laser array in a system repair in the field. I warned the graduate students to under NO circumstances ever arrange for a back reflection into the fiber. One of them, trying to teach the old man "Whos Boss" did just this while I was on site. Whoopsie.. I caught him on cell video aiming 50 watts at a reflective chrome trim piece. I'm sure his professor enjoyed two weeks of downtime while another diode came over from Europe, 7,000$ for the array, 1000$ for my travel, and 2000$ in fees from my then employer. The young gentleman had an Ego / paranoia / racism / Trust Issue problem and wanted his own measurement of device power. I had told him not to touch the fiber... But he and his friends wanted to show off how smart they were, and did what the American told them not to do. Took less then then a millisecond for an expensive, deliberate mistake. My employer sent another tech with me for round two, for obvious reasons. My boss told the customer that his warranty ended the moment the student unscrewed the SMA fiber when warned not to. My point is, if you have no idea what your doing, high powered diode lasers are NOT for you.NOT a great idea to try to solder with a laser, systems that do use this method use high power, ultra short pulse, lasers to partially melt an existing solder joint, then watch the heat decay curve on a thermal scanner to verify the integrity of a solder joint. That is not a candidate for home construction, needing a Q-Switched laser source. Key word here is partial melt, not soldering.Older laser diodes that you might find on Ebay etc.. Often have a severe aging problem that might not be apparent when first purchased surplus.Did I mention the sensitivity to current surges, turn on spikes, and static discharge events? As well as the need for a very high amperage constant current driver working into what can be a near dead short?Get yourself an ERSA iron and enjoy life.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 12:29:44 am
content: Hey mods? Why did I get a "watched?"I apologize for any insults, but the incident actually happened, when your a guest in a lab, with high social pressures on the local students... weird things happen.Steve

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 09:39:49 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on September 30, 2024, 06:06:21 pmHow much do you value your eyesight? For the avoidance of doubt: I don't care if you blind yourself.If there is a reflection and a random person nearby is blinded, what will your reaction be, and what will the reaction of law enforcement, insurance companies, and relatives be?Remember the old poster in laser labs: "do not look at laser with remaining eye".

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 09:46:01 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 03, 2024, 12:29:44 amWhat do you mean by "get a watched"?Looking at your version « Last Edit: Today at 01:17:30 by LaserSteve » , I don't see anything objectionable.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 12:45:42 pm
content: TGGZZZ asked Whatza "Watched" ?A little green icon pops up in your post with a percentage / battery guage in your user page, telling you that you are the next November Eight Tango Romeo Echo Echo Sierra Or Golf Two Three Tango Romeo Echo Echo Sierra in 10,9,8,7,6 (Yes I did that in a way that is not searchable, that does NOT mean I approved of the content presented by the example amateur call sign in question.)Mods have a new toy. It has since disappeared from my account.Now its bac....Steve

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 01:30:30 pm
content: social credit system?That is weird, I saw a highly informative post with safety information that is very hard to come by.I see that venture capitalist seekers are going to be running to the cops alot because its interference with getting ideas green lighted? omg it can negatively effect my kickstarters

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 01:50:54 pm
content: See attached..@ EEVBLOG, @ Mods, Dave, Kindly explain please? Change to forum rules?Was a complaint posted / digital meassaged ? I have a so called "mod / part owner" from another forum following me around posting complaints anywhere he can.I can't belive I just used an At sign in communication, I'm old school.Steve

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 02:11:42 pm
content: On some forum platforms I can "watch" a user, it just means I get a notice when that user makes a post. I may do that when the user consistently posts good info, that user will then see in their profile settings who is watching them. But I have never seen to icon in user avatar.I am a bit confused about the safety issue. Both low cost and very expensive commercial style machines or desktop boxes are sold everywhere, safety is included, be it chinglish manual with pair of glasses, to commercial booths.I think we all get the safety issues.As for the actual laser, I did a little research, seems diode at 980nm (near IR) is recommended for laser soldering. But using the lower eV energy wavelength 450nm is better than say higher eV like of 980nm? Shorter nm seems to be better.IR vs Blue -->https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1526612522005722More eV means perhaps using lower wattage diode(s). Obviously 10x2 is the same as 2x10, but you get what I am saying, as seen in the article. The article also mentions metals aborb lower nm better.Next is the "pulse" I talk about. There's many ways to do it, of which I don't know which way is best yet. Just blast the joint with max power and proper time, or do like reflow ovens do, warm at lower power for period, then ramp up power to finish. This is all part of the MC code.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 03:40:37 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 03, 2024, 02:11:42 pmEye safety is a complex subject; confusion is normal.Many dangerous items are sold online, including direct to consumers. Amazon and Aliexpress mutter the right words to deflect legal blame from themselves, and do little to prevent such sales. Why would they: they can't be sued.QuoteThat's a not uncommon statement on this forum, and elsewhere. It is so common there's a standard figurative saying: "famous last words".https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/famous-last-words.htmlIt's accuracy is, in general, open to question.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 04:28:28 pm
content: So I just watched four videos on Youtube:Method 1, Apply adsorbent metal or say black Boron Carbide mask over part and radiant heat the solder paste.Method 2, Robotic placement of laser beam and use the fact that solder paste has organic adsorbent in it, at least until the flux boils away.which as I suspect, means you're not doing remelt with this technique. Cook the flux, not the metal.Method 3. Attach fiber optic pen with cheap jacketed but unarmored fiber to stereo microscope. DO NOT add safety shutters or wear safety glasses when using instrument.Thats "aided viewing" of a laser source, and that was found early on to be one of the best possible ways to destroy your eyes with a laser, even a verylow power one. Akin to staring at the laser spot with a high power telescope.You do not want to get me started on FAP/FC-Bar in operation without a flexible metal jacket in operation in a flexable cable without shielding. Get below the minimum bend radius on the fiber, the fiber WILL break, that energy will go somewhere.-------------------------------Of the videos I saw, NONE of those machines would be allowable in the US on under 21 CFR 1040.J , NONE in the EU, None in any of the CIS countries, None under Chinas new code, and here an unguarded, non interlocked laser, let alone one with "Aided Viewing", would have CDRH and OSHA both making your life miserable with recalls and fines if sold into commerceSurgical Microscopes, Opthalmic Microscopes, and Laser Confocal, Laser raman scattering microscopes in labs all have multiple safety filters and redundant highly reliable shutters for a very good reason.Yes, valid for certain niche uses, maybe. But the "time to successful joint" is just as long if not far longer then using a conventional iron. Really, cook the flux and melt a matte powder? Marginal utility, and lots of chance for error. Not going to do rework with this.Again, don't build a handheld. Just don't...OH, and its not just eyes. CCDs fry easily. Many lose pixels at 10-15 mW into the camera lens. Rave Party camera destruction is well documented on Youtube / Photonlexiicon.com.Steve

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 06:40:24 pm
content: You are trying to nix a DIY project (DIY) because you think safety cannot be made?Why optical noculars at all, I would use a camera and watch everything on a display. If a cam CCD burns up because of a "stray" reflection, ok, install a new CCD and use a better filter next time.Perhaps a small box and the thing won't fire unless the translucent door is closed.Many people use sharp knives, use lawn mowers wearing flip flops, without regard to safety, we should ban knives and mowers too. Lost eye, missing fingers and toes, OMG, what has the world come to.e bay has many used Coherent diode fiber units for sale, gonna get one or two to test with. Hard to find the blue ones though, ~800nm seems to be popular, but 30 or 40w might be enough. Will get my optics as needed from Edmund.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 07:44:31 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 03, 2024, 06:40:24 pmThe only thing he - and others - are trying to "nix" is premature blindness.When people misuse sharp knives and somebody else is hurt, the community takes action against the perpetrator. Quite right too.Please ensure that nobody other than yourself is withindirect or indirectline of sight when your experiments are powered up.I hope you are as competent as you think you are. Your statements and your tone lead me to suspect otherwise.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 09:10:17 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 03, 2024, 06:40:24 pmYeah I'm going to trust the highly experienced laser professional over you when it comes to safety.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 10:42:26 pm
content: The highly experienced laser professional is actually also one of the better known Laser Hobbyists and has been so since he was a wet behind the ears newbie long ago.He's terrified by what he sees on Youtube, and in person, having been out doing very safe, carefully controlled laser shows and having idiots illuminate the Laserist or Artist (often himslf) with pointers that have a very high irradiance that are well beyond by a factor or 100 or more over what he considers to be safe in terms of beam product. Note I said product, a nonstandard term consisting of the diameter, divergence, peak power, continuous wave power, a measurement known as M Squared, distance, the size of his or other's pupil, and if the beam is scanned, Q-Switched, Mode Locked, up collimated etc. I have a very good model in my head of what it takes to fatigue the eye, bleach the pigment, or actually do damage. I've also been hit while in a friends light plane, and by teenagers on a bridge when driving. High power laser pointers are evil. OZ's rules of approved devices only and customs confiscation are great.When I was in my late teens, a female friend from high school, whose parents were stockholders of a marine life park company, got me the "dream job" on what in 1990s Dollars was a Three Million Dollar nightly attraction using lasers, pyro, water-skiers, fast boats, 70 mm water-screen rear projection , water skiers, dancers, etc. I was working on what then was the state of the art in visible lasers at the park, and learned the hard way about the real hazard, human nature. I had the system idling and detuned at a vary low power. I had a lock-out tag out on the main key switch some 1500 feet away. An Idiot, ie slightly older college student, came in and pulled off the Tagout, ignored the note taped over the key, and booted the system.My "safe", by the book, setup turned into a nightmare as actuators moved on the beam-table with no warning, and I found myself with a tiny burn in the peripheral. Like most people who gain eye damage in the workplace, I went though hell as my brain adapted the visual cortex to try to work around the damage. It will try, but watching your vision try to remap the neural net in real time for the few weeks is NOT fun. Not too bad after all, it missed the Fovea and the Macula, just for the rest of my life I've had to look more then most when walking / driving at Crosspoint's. I wont see the truck that hits me, is sort of the true joke, and over decades it has cleaned up a bit.Having three universities , a government depository library, and a medical school near by, I spent a lot of time learning about laser safety. I'll spare you the details, but there are a bunch of laser professionals who have became expert in radiation safety due to preventable or unpreventablk eye injuries. Of The best in the word who is still living, got his burn while looking down the bore of Argon Ion Laser that had a malfunctioing start timer.To counter that, there are carefully designed and highly regulated laser based projectors that legally able to audience scan, and after a really long moratorium on outdoor laser shows, due to an "incident", I have also fought for your right to legally own lasers in the background. I've said that to assure you I'm not some bitter jerk who had a whoopsie and never recovered, far from it.So here's what I know, at the risk of your continuing down the path based on giving you more information. Diode lasers suck at diameter, divergence, beamquality, wavelength statbily, sensitivity to certain kinds of back reflection, and multimode diode lasers do not propagate though fibers worth a damn. Which is why bundles and correcting optics are used. In teh past ten years there have been some breakthroughs, but MOST (Not all) high power diode lasers have a figure of merit (known as M^2) parameter that is horrible, and always above 2 or more.This means the collimated divergence is huge, the spot size is very large, it takes a far higher power system to achievde what a more expensive different type of laser can do. A factor known as Etendue comes into play.So large amounts of high power fiber coupled diode laser lasers get dumped into surplus. A large amount of factory rejects due to wavelength problems during manufacturing are out there too. As are some overuns dumped on the market. Very high power diode arrays are out there, and they are all the rage for folks who cannot afford what I refer to as "the Good Stuff". With the FCDL leakage and stray light are huge.Fiber Lasers are also dumped on the market, subsidized, to capture Dollars into certain countries, but Dave and I would agree that would diverge into a hugely unpopular political discussion fast.The regulatory agencies have other issues to cover, like industrial, illegal medical laser devices, illegal drugs, etc. Believe it or not US Customs tries hard to catch the illegal imports, but there is little that can be done about the surplus market in the US. The rules have simply not caught up. You can buy a Five Megawatt laser easily, and legally. What you do with it is when the law kicks in. Again, I diverge.This provides the illusion that high power lasers and uncertified laser cutters are inherently safe.. They are not.Being one of the early, and premier laser hobbyists had an odd side effect. In the past, I would frequently get calls from Law Enforcement who would track me down on behalf of a physician or institution of higher learning, and patch in a phone call asking what to do after a retinal injury. These calls were often frantic, and the turth is, after administering steroids and a few other drugs, only time will tell on the damage. I would usually patch or link the doctor or victims through to a military hospital who had the US Military center of excellence on laser eye injuries. That asset is no longer available to the public.So, before you criticize me on my reply, I have pretty good physics and ethics reasons why I am discouraging you.OH, BTW, in the US, when the insurance code is entered in the database for a laser injury, it goes down coded as "Optical Neuropathy, Unspecified" , so it is difficult to collect data on actual injury rates. Its rare, but much higher then published. Stats say Local, Sate and Federal Governmens only take an interest in injuries when the rate reaches between 1 in 300,000 or 1 in 1,000,000. In fact there is a rough federal rule in the US on what the minimum amount of sick people has to be before Federal research Dollars can go toward a cause. This results in "Orphan" diseases that are horrible, but not addressed, except through sheer determination.So your trying, in my opinion, to run a horribly inefficient process with the wrong laser, and your expressing a naïve attitude. Your citing, if not clinging videos that show a distinct lack of shielding.So the rule, if applied, Worldwide, is properly shielded laser is designated Class I (very safe) with a second sticker on it that says do not defeat interlocks and housing (and a few other things).You can have a Class IV laser marked Class I, and this gives the public the wrong idea in videos on laser use.And for those who say, go ahead, hurt yourself if you want, but do not harm others, that is poorly thought out, Nearly all of us have loved ones and persons who are dependent on us in one way or the other. Taxes have to rise for covering those who do not die, but live with a debilitating injury resulting in dependence on Social Welfare systems. So...Sort of Rant, Over. I've typed a few dozen variations over the years in various places, and spoke to this at industry and hobby conferences.Steve

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 10:46:14 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on September 30, 2024, 06:06:21 pmBut why? What would be the benefit of laser soldering over the classic soldering?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 11:21:49 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on October 03, 2024, 10:46:14 pmBenefits: highly localized heating so nearby low temp parts would not melt, no air flow to push small parts around, no physical tip needing to touch the component leaving both hands free.It would be amazing if it were safe.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 11:22:11 pm
content: Ordered a used Coherent FAP800-30 from e bay.What are the benefits? Laser welding benefits have already been documented, but my project idea came from soldering Rf components without using excess solder and reducing the HAZ in the process.I guess I will just need to do a show-&-tell when I get something going.Quote from: tggzzz on October 03, 2024, 07:44:31 pmSomeone elses fingers? Own fingers, like blinding one-self.And yes, I feel confident I can DIY what I am after, using a 30w laser-diode fiber coupled, for precision soldering.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 11:42:00 pm
content: Here is a start on safety..The checklists are onerous..https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-I/subchapter-J/part-1040?toc=1https://www.fda.gov/media/72593/downloadhttps://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/compliance-guide-laser-products-fda-86-8260https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/laser-products-and-instruments/notices-laser-industry(See Chiefly 56, harmonization with international rules)https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/compliance-guide-laser-products-fda-86-8260----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Some "Light" readinghttps://ehs.osu.edu/sites/default/files/laser_safety_procedures_manual.pdfThe Navy, a small part of their rules:https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Portals/103/Documents/NSWC_Dahlgren/Laser/MIL_STD_1425A.pdfThis one's important:https://d3qi0qp55mx5f5.cloudfront.net/researchsafety/docs/Laser_Safety_Calculations.pdf?mtime=1610127144----------------------------BTW, in most cases, the only way to ensure laser safety is by an intense series of measurements with really good (and expensive) equipment. Using cameras and other techniques plus 100% enclosure is mandatory for using non-medical high power lasers.Steve

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 11:44:45 pm
content: I hope you just payed between 350 and 450$ for a pair of high quality NEW laser safety glasses from a known Optics and Lab Equipment vendor, at least OD6.I hope you never forget to wear them, or trust your you own personal design safety review.Probably closer to the 450$ range and not cheap plastic...You'd be amazed at the counterfeit glasses out there.Your desire to shoot a Youtube video says it all.I hope you have the sense to find an experienced, certified LSO for review before you post that video.Ah, wait till you learn about the need for the fume extractor. When you miss with a handheld probe you will quickly learn a lesson you never forget. Especially on GRP and other board materials. A simple mask is not enough. usually the coughing goes away after about twenty-thirty minutes, but the soreness lasts for days. Don't use Pine or wood in general for your focal tests if you have any backblast . The fumes are more interesting (Toxic) at 800 nm then they are at 10.6 U, which does a better job of disassociating some of the combustion products.I hope your UC never fires on you during boot or other undefined states.You may have found an affordable FAP, and the ones you found are from a recent factory closure, but you didn't find other critical parts of FAP longevity or the needed optics cheaply.Steve

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2024, 11:59:44 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 03, 2024, 11:22:11 pmSo, as I suspected, the answer to RoGeorge's question "But why? What would be the benefit of laser soldering over the classic soldering?" is "Because look at me doing something kewl"QuoteThose questions indicate you really, really have poor comprehension skills.I'm sure youcanDIY that. I'm also sure you lack the skills to do itsafely. And since you lack the self-awareness to realise you lack the skills, that's Dunning-Kruger territory.I hope you don't blind someone's child. If you do, beware of the parent's anger - because it will know no bounds.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 12:09:05 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 03, 2024, 11:59:44 pmThe question was clearly answered above.If you want to go high tech you can do stuff like this:

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 12:13:29 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 03, 2024, 11:44:45 pmPlus presumably a pair for every passerby that might be within line of (indirect) sight. Then he's got to ensure they are wearing them correctly.Before my daughter left for university, I got her to speed-read a story I remembered from when I was her age: Tom Godwin's short story "The Cold Equations". She appreciated the (generic) point of the story; it remains as potent as when it was written.Manypeople appreciate that story, so it is widely reproduced on the web. On the off-chance the OP will read and understand it, here's one example:https://maggiemcneill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cold-Equations.pdf. There are many other copies knocking around.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 12:17:23 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 04, 2024, 12:09:05 amWhile that may well be a valid answer aprofessionalwould give forproductionpurposes, I doubt it is the answer the OP would give.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 01:00:50 am
content: This laser professional watched a few of the videos recently presented, then watched the video on the 20 years of research it has taken one primary engineer to achieve those results. He's good, very good, and as usually the case, there are some trade secrets in there that are not detailed.Some of the "beam profilometry" scans : reading going on in real time were um, interesting in what they had to do to pass IPC etc. If they are true scans.I just inherited SMD production quality control as part of my duties with my new employer. So I can see the "WOW" in some of those videos, and I also know the videos were recorded through some really, really good IR blocking filters for "trade Secret" reasons. There are some glints here and there that make it through, and the active focus control is doing some interesting things. Some of the transverse modes shown indicate more then simple focus control.Also I know the model of laser driver used, and pictured in one video. It, too, is capable of some interesting things in the time domain.Another interesting thing is the proprietary flux used. While a few of the videos show SAC as the alloy, most are not using it.Thick Gold on the surrounds of the plated through hole. There is a clue or two there, too.So the learning curve will be steep.Steve

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 08:57:52 am
content: I worked with BT Martlesham Heath research labs around 1980, when fibre optics were the great hope for the future. Naturally they worked with lasers, which had only existed for ~15 years, so the powers were much lower than today.Everybody in the laser lab had to undergo induction and training. One part of the training was a video produced for, IIRC, the US military. In it a monkey was strapped down while a "high" power laser was played over its face. The face melted and burned. The monkey was presumably euthanised, and some of the audience vomited.The staff took note of the "do not look into laser with remaining eye" reminders posted in the lab, and were paranoid about avoiding specular reflections.I haven't been able to find any such video on yootoo, so I can't post a link.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 09:53:41 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 03, 2024, 11:22:11 pmAt the bare minimum, assuming you do not care about your own safety at all (which appears to be the case), DO NOT under any circumstances operate the laser in a room with windows, nor with any open doors, nor when anyone else is in the room or able to enter the room. (That means locked from the inside.)Yes, innocent people have been injured by laser beams that accidentally reflected off something and exited through a window.But your confidence is precisely why you shouldn’t be going anywhere near a laser of any kind. At work, where I am the department electronics technician, I support the laser labs. The senior researchers who use them — and have been using them for decades — treat those things with respect, not confidence. One needs to have a healthy fear of them, because they can injure youand otherspermanently, and do so much, much faster than the blink of an eye. And for the most part you cannot see the danger at all (and with non-visible-wavelength lasers, you can never see it). You just notice when you have burned your retina or set something on fire.So you need to have respect for these things, and until you do, you should not even think of turning one on.What you intend to do seems likeunmitigated insanityto me. But even more relevant is that a highly experienced laser professional is telling you it’s insanity. That should be stopping you in your tracks. It is highly concerning that it does not.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 10:03:45 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on September 30, 2024, 06:58:55 pmHe didn’t say health insurance.He said liability insurance. That’s the insurance that covers your ass when your device causes harm to someone else and they successfully sue you for a million dollars for medical care, loss of income due to the injury, emotional trauma, and punitive damages.I’d also get good prepaid legal insurance, since there are likely civil and/or criminal laws you’d break if you caused injury. Negligence is something that you can get in legal trouble for.What you’re doing is as reckless as shooting a machine gun in your front yard. Even if you don’t aim it at anyone on purpose, if it injures or kills someone, you’ll be in hot water. The difference is that a bullet doesn’t easily ricochet off of all manner of things. If anything, a high power laser is more reckless, since a laser beam can easily end up hitting something you had no intention of aiming at.And remember that the thing you’re planning to aim at (solder) is highly reflective and of varying shape, meaning that you have no way of predicting where the reflections go.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 10:10:38 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 04, 2024, 09:53:41 amPrecisely.Unfortunately "there's none so deaf as them's won't hear", and "you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink".If the OP does take your suggested precaution and lock the door from the inside, I suggest he leaves the key in the lock so that he canfeelit when he needs to leave in a hurry.

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 10:45:15 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 04, 2024, 12:09:05 amThanks for the video, very entertaining, but there was nothing compelling for the use of laser soldering. All of the use cases are possible using standard techniques, e.g. parallel soldering use infra red lamps etc. It does excel at minimising heating but that's really a non issue, such an expensive, difficult and potentially dangerous method to do something already possible with cheaper and safer alternatives.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 11:26:40 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 04, 2024, 10:10:38 amAnd soon, he’ll be “there’s none so blind as those who won’t see!”

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 11:38:18 am
content: Laser soldering makes some niche at tightly controlled automated production. For manual, DIY, you simply don't have the money to buy something that actually will be alble to solder without burning PCB and components. Not to say safety issues already mentioned.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 12:02:14 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 04, 2024, 11:26:40 amI don't care, of course.I do care about innocent passersby.

author: unseenninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 01:16:27 pm
content: A while back, I decided to look at whether laser pointers available on eBay were really as dangerous as people say.My first purchases were laser safety glasses. As I bought them from Amazon (hardly any more reliable than eBay), I tested them with a wide spectrum light source and a photospectrometer to confirm that they did actually block the advertised wavelengths. I also purchased a basic laser power meter.These are the three laser pointers which I ordered from eBay. They were very cheap. Each colour (red, green, violet) has a sticker advertising the maximum power output as < 5mW.However, as my power meter soon confirmed, these three laser pointers are far from safe.The red one measured 9mW - close to 5mW but still strong enough to cause trouble.The green one measured 27mW - ouch!The violet one (which looks to our eyes like the most dim of the three) measured 44mW!!Where I live, the maximum power allowed for any laser pointer is just 1mW and these are actually illegal to even own.I've looked at the various laser engravers, etc that can be sourced from China and in every case, I decided that my eyesight was worth considerably more than the benefit I might obtain from these devices. Even if the OP manages to make something which would provide any benefit for electronics assembly over and above that provided by a more conventional heat source, I won't be buying one!

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 01:34:06 pm
content: So, is the OP ready to acknowledge that his idea for laser soldering is a really bad one?

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 04:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 04, 2024, 01:34:06 pmThis thread is not a course on laser safety. If people don't know what safety is needed, or even how to be safe, that's on them. I don't need a lecture on laser safety.As for safety, do I need to upgrade my glasses?Laservision P5F01OD 5+ @ 190 - 375 nmOD 4+ @ 730 - 855 nmOD 7+ @ 755 - 840 nmYeah, people better safety-it-up +1000%, otherwise you can't use a laser.https://www.thefabricator.com/thefabricator/article/safety/staying-safe-with-hand-held-laser-welding-in-the-metal-fabrication-shopQuote from: tggzzz on October 04, 2024, 12:02:14 pmDo you get all worried seeing a public bus driving close to the curb-sidewalk with people standing right there on the sidewalk? All those innocent passer-byers trusting that bus driver, that's crazy.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 04:21:49 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 04, 2024, 10:03:45 amWhat? What did he say?

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 04:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 04, 2024, 12:09:05 amWowzer. Went high tech on a laser process, but perhaps replace the board designer?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 04:50:57 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 04, 2024, 04:08:00 pmAnybody else notice those two sentences are mutually contradictory? I doubt the OP is able to understand that.Additionally, many of his responses to other people seem to completely miss the points they are making.QuoteI choose takemanycalculated risks, e.g. backpacking round India and piloting aircraft where every landing is a forced landing. I encouraged my14yodaughter to do the same; we had a whale of a time.The key word is, of course, calculated. That calculation is based on thorough continuous training and certification, includingdeliberately causingthe aircraft to "depart from controlled flight" at 1000ft AGL.Such calculations allowed us to fly in loose formation with several other aircraft, but made me not want to fly in the situation where my miscalculation might kill the pilot of one of the other aircraft. That last clause directly ties in with my attitude that "what you do to your body is your business, but what you do to other people's bodies is everybody's business".Hence my - our - concern that you might cause "life-changing injuries" to other people who are going about their business nearby you.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 05:17:46 pm
content: read Laser Safety Hdbk.ONE slip of the beam WILL BLIND YOU permanently.Most Laser safety glasses are junk from China and WILL NOT protect at these power and wavelegnths.Learn about emissivity.solder will reflect most of the laser energy.Be safeJon

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 05:57:28 pm
content: Link to Professor JonPaul's Most Excellent Required reading...https://archive.org/details/safetywithlasers0000slinOften available at a library(tm) somewhereSteve

author: unseenninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 06:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on October 04, 2024, 05:17:46 pmActually, it won't, unless you're talking about very high power. What it will do is makepartof your vision not work any more, like adding another blind spot in your vision, just like the one that everyone has.Your brain can only compensate for a limited number of such aberrations.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 06:13:33 pm
content: So Randy?How are you going to do the considerable automated beam shaping in real time with autofocus verification in a handpiece? A DMD Chip can't handle the power..That "Donut" transverse profile for soldering a through hole is not easy... Especially when it shifts from a Tem00 Approximation to Tophat to Donut in real time? Its well hidden in the video, but there is a whole lot of realtime adaptive optics going on, even in the robotic positioning version. Enquiring minds want to know...There is a nice video showing an unprocessed beam blowing through the hole around a pin, causing flame and fume shoot-through on the bottom of the board. Hence the "Donut" profile, which does not come as TEM01, X=0, Y=0,(Transverse Electromagnetic Mode, that is Centro-symmetric) out of a bundled fiber. So there are ways to do it, but none of them are small. Hence the heavy gold ring pad round the pin in the video.You have a plan for the very tightly controlled and pre-heated inert gas, or in some cases, especially the BGA reball video showing a non-laser premelt? Got N2? I'm not sure there is enough heat present to activate an oxide removing gas mix, aka "Forming Gas" such as 96% AR, Balance H2... Details.. Details.Oxidation prevention / removal is interesting when there is no flux being applied in real time in the one video..There is a lot of stuff going on in the Japanese videos if you know what to look for... Some of which gives a whole new meaning to the term "No Clean Flux"Steve

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 07:32:21 pm
content: The laser wand can incorporate shielding gas if needed, I have plenty of argon hanging around from all the TIG and MIG work I do.Initial go at it is SMD, not through hole.I am researching PWM control of the laser power. It seems using a power profile is ideal, kinda like reflow ovens use.Fun stuff, hopefully no eyes or bus drivers get hit with the laser.Quote from: jonpaul on October 04, 2024, 05:17:46 pmYes, china glasses are junk, or at least those not tested by a trusted facility.But to be clear, I already have P5F01 OD+7 for the nm used. I was asking if those need to be better? Maybe I wear a P5F01 helmet over the glasses, and then I hide behind a sheet of P5F01, all in another room?Be safe. 100%.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 10:10:32 pm
content: Quote from: moffy on October 04, 2024, 10:45:15 amHighly dependent on the product being soldered, it may be an issue or it may not be.QuoteInfrared is the closest alternative, which is what I suggested the OP would try. But long range infrared soldering tools are not easily or cheaply available. It would be interesting to look into that though:https://www.pdr-rework.com/why-is-it-called-focused-infrared

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 10:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 04, 2024, 10:10:32 pmNice informative reply, thanks. The focused infrared does look interesting for spot soldering or rework purposes.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2024, 05:20:19 am
content: Very sorry: Even a 50 mW pointer CAN cause permanent blindness.A laser that can melt solder WILL destroy the retina and lens.READ THE LASER SAFT HDBKDont go blindj

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2024, 10:48:33 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 04, 2024, 04:08:00 pmYes, you do, if you think even for a moment that there is any mileage in a hand held laser being used like a soldering iron.Think about the power levels!!If you can't afford a soldering iron I'll start a whip-round and buy you one. Let it go, mate. Honestly.PS: I bet you've never even done a course on laser safety.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2024, 05:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 05, 2024, 10:48:33 amSounds like the kind of bet I like: a dead certainty.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2024, 10:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 04, 2024, 12:13:29 amtruly an absurd story."UNAUTHORIZED PERSONNEL KEEP OUT!" – what kind of a warning is that? would the ink required to indicate the actual danger put them over the weight limit? how about, "BY LAW, STOWAWAYS WILL BE TERMINATED WITHOUT EXCEPTION" ?also, how could the mass of one human not be within the safety factor? what kind of engineering is that?not worth reading imo.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 12:36:42 am
content: Quote from: digger on October 05, 2024, 10:19:10 pmSpace flight is really hard, and margins are much smaller than in most terrestrial applications. Think of the motivation. Cost to orbit used to be close to a million dollars a pound, and even now is thousands (Euro metric fanatics can divide those numbers by 2 and get an equally accurate cost in Euros/kg).I believe I have related this story in the forum before. Back in the early nineties we evaluated a firm to do some very complex machining on aluminum structural elements. One firm we visited had created some of the structural elements of the space shuttle and were involved in the structural analysis because of the interaction between the exact details of the structure and its strength, and they shared some of this information in touting their capabilities. Per their NASA instructions where loads were well known the margins were set at 10%. For cases where there was uncertainty in the data the margin was set at 20%. Both of these numbers are absurdly low by terrestrial application standards, but are real cases, not some made up science fiction case. You might also look into how much fuel margin SpaceX allocates for their booster landings. It is stunningly small.The story is contrived, but the facts are real. And we have come dangerously close to living them out, just with a somewhat different plot line. Apollo 13 could very easily have ended up in a situation where not all of the astronauts could survive the trip. There have been equally difficult moral dilemmas in historical lifeboat situations.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 01:51:13 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 06, 2024, 12:36:42 am1 USD/lb = 1.99 Euro/kg at todays rate.Space flight calculation need checking

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 03:36:32 am
content: Even conceding that the safety factor not accommodating her is hypothetically reasonable, what's the justification for not displaying a reasonable warning? I think it's just silly. This wasn't an unforseen scenario. Killing her was justified by law.Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 06, 2024, 12:36:42 amTheunmannedones?

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 04:35:56 am
content: Please see attached.. SIMPLIFIED sample calculation example. I snagged this from Mizzou University's safety web site.In Re: Safety Glasses for a Random High Power Laser Situation.It is one way of doing the calculation, but you have to have an idea of the irradiance. Generally the only way to get that in a lab situation is measure it.The quick way would to assume you have a ~7 mm unfocused beam etc... But you don't, because with a fiber fed probe with a focusing lens, you simply don't know until you know the spot size at distance X from the probe. The reflections from the pin, plating, surface of the PCB, traces all will vary widely and some will form "Caustics", which is an artistic term, but does a good job of describing a constantly changing set of reflections. You have direct, specular, and diffuse reflections possible in your system. Making it a nightmare to achieve even a ballpark irradiance. I could add the very scary "Aided Viewing" to that list if you use a microscope or telescope in aiming/Is OD7 enough... Great question... likely, but without measurements in a carefully controlled situation, I can't say. I'd like to keep my LSO cert, that is framed but sets in a desk drawer. A great way to get it revoked is to post a mistake in an assumed calculation with a lens in the beam and an unknown fiber, yet to be determined.. Sorry, but Greg reads this forum, and I like my cert, which is expensive and not easy to get.So, is it a very good pair of goggles that you have described, YES. And they are far better then nothing. If this were a laser show situation with no lens in the beam and more controlled human factors, plus knowing diameter, divergence, and distance from the laser, yes I could give you a rough yes/no. But I don't know what your hardware will become.. There is also a difference in collecting aperture. If you don't wear a prescription lens, I can assume 6 or 7 mm from the pupil diameter table. But if you wear eye glasses to correct your vision, under the old rules I have to use 50 mm as the collection aperture.The spot size of the incident radiation at the retina matters.This is why JonPaul told you to get David Sliney and Myron Wolbarsht's book. Its OLD, but still reasonably accurate with regards to the updates to the rules in the past few years, but LEDs for example now have their own safety standards, in the recent past they were treated like a laser till the standards committees got around to adapting a more relevant set of rules. Dr. Sliney is still alive and a has a short PDF out showing the changes. I used to bike 17 miles each way to a library to read that book before I had my driver's license. Its a good read.Wear your OD7 pair anyways. Because NO protection at all in this situation is very, very, bad. My medical laser friends anecdotally tell me that 800 nm range medical lasers scare them more then most wavelengths, , because it has a habit of penetrating deep into the skin and finding nerve tissue, which greatly adsorbs it.Enclose the beam and use a camera. Keep in mind your random irradiances can easily kill a CCD or CMOS camera, as a modern camera lens can very efficient in collecting and focusing, often much better then the eye. I've burned pixels before, so I'd suggest a short pass optical filter on the camera to block the laser.I'd encourage you to never run this system in the dark, one your Safety Glass pair has a low VLT (Visible light Transmission) and two, it shrinks the pupil diameter, improving your safety slightly. yes, under certain rare circumstances the goggles can become a greater hazard (tripping, obstructions, moving parts) to the operator then a weak laser may be. But this case is NOT one of those situations.Sorry for the vague answer, but you really need at least OD6 in a case like this. Were I back on campus, we'd be testing the goggles, too.This is the artistic version a of a caustic from a laser entertainment system hitting a wall. My buddy is probably running a six foot wide image in that picture at "Lotsa" watts of visible light.. Its created by making a distorted optical material, and transmitting or reflecting the laser off it. Industrial ones spread widely and are far, farm, more complex.https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qlzcbwipo38?feature=shareIf your going to work with this device, enclose the entire beam train etc...Steve

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 04:56:56 am
content: i wonder if there is some way to use humble fire instead of lasers to do this. if you carefully paint it with some kind of coating.How about a coating that solidifies everywhere but on exposed metal, and its a great insulator. then maybe you can just torch the boards after blow drying them.like a super-insulating anti-loctite coating. it would be a highly engineered batterthen you can do a wood fired soddering job

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 06:27:20 am
content: Or imagine some coating that rejects IR more than solder. Seems far fetched ofc.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 05:06:27 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 06, 2024, 04:35:56 amThat's a rock solid reason, of course.Even if you had sufficient information and certification wasn't involved and you dared to express an opinion, there's always the chance the OP could mutate the operating conditions in ways they believe/presume are unimportant. The only way round that possibility is to personally supervise the experiment, and even that isn't foolproof.It is always worth viscerally understanding the old saying: you can't make something foolproof because fools are so damn ingenious.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 11:00:05 pm
content: Talking of "the cold equations", if you hunt around on archive.org there might still be the radioplay version of it too, under the name of an old american series called "X Minus one".There's also thishttps://qqsr.thecomicseries.com/comics/113/a little "sequel" to The Cold Equations, it goes beyond simply the pilot's chair argument (and all the other stuff that could surely be tossed where necessary) and very satisfyingly manages to blame the whole mess on rigid bureacracies.I haven't read every single post in this thread, but from what I have read, I don't see anywhere where the OP has said what advantage using a laser for soldering can possibly give.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 11:07:33 pm
content: Infrared is easier and widely used in rework stations. It's not safe either without proper protection though. You need to wear proper protective glasses. IR at these energy levels can damage your eyes pretty badly as well, even from just reflections.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 04:15:07 am
content: Rebonjour a tous.....1/ cheap Chinese Laser power meters can give inaccurate readings.Only the calibrated expensive professional units can be trusted.2/ Laser pointers used outdoors can and have caused airplane pilots and polce/fire/emergency eye damage. They are illegal in some countries.j

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 04:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 06, 2024, 11:07:33 pmAny eV photonic wavelength is dangerous at "these energy levels". Not sure anyone is arguing that it's not.2.4GHz is pretty good at cooking your wet tissue, my 1kw 2.4GHz amp with yagi does some fun things, best to play with it while standing behind perforated metal mesh.The laser safety bit is a bit overplayed in this thread. Please just post links to good laser safety resources for all readers to go look at, save the rhetoric for later with friends and family.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 12:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 07, 2024, 04:05:19 pmNo, it isn’t overplayed. And the fact that you believe it is is precisely why you shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the damned thing. You clearly do not understand the risks.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 12:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 08, 2024, 12:09:56 pmHe'll learn, one way or another.I just hope someone else doesn't learn "his" lesson.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:48:28 pm
content: In high school, my electronics teacher, a Nuclear Submarine Captain, Retired, gave us the Army Corps of Engineers version of this. It was a bit raunchier, but I can't find it on line. (EDIT, found NAVY Version) I have abided by it to this day, and still have ten, ten, and two because of that. The language is a beautiful spoof of the 1781 and King James Bibles in Olde English.The idea being, deviating much from the below makes people look askance at you with regards to safety. Hopefully some day you will understand. Had this been a viable idea, I would have contacted you via PM and offered you a suitable laser diode power supply for your FAP, for example. Probably at no charge or at my cost. However,, I'm not impressed in the "self concern" area, and I note when I shipped a whole working Co2 Laser with delivery arm, to a graduate student in your country, the next time I crossed the border, Canada Customs had questions, and I was briefly detained and my car searched. Sent on my way into CANADA with the thanks of the Inspector later, but still asked about how I could give away that system. Actions, have consequences... Next time I flew in, no problems.That student now has Doctorate,is a professor with a focus on teaching. Much of the equipment he needed for his thesis project was donated, by laser specialists and hobbyists all over the world. he has passed on the favor by publishing a DPSS green design for hobbyists, and answers questions on forums.I will not not be further posting in this thread, which should make the OP happy. But I am the one guy here with extensive experience in owning and driving FAPS, which if you want them to live, is not as easy as it sounds. Considering a good friend used to align and bond the fibers on the factory floor, well, there goes the neighborhood on support.I post this not to be mean, but to suggest obeying the rules generally results in great benefits in the laser community. You'd be surprised how hobbyists that show promise in the laser community get offered great jobs, field service jobs, or in some cases, graduate school. I was offered such a spot, and a I turned it into a career.I've done my best to pay that forward.I close with:Ten Commandments of Electrical Safety:(1) Beware of the lightning that lurks in an undischarged capacitor lest it cause thee to be bounced upon thy backside in a most ungainly manner.(2) Cause thou the switch that supplies large quantities of juice to be opened and thusly tagged, so thy days may be long on this earthly vale of tears.(3) Prove to thyself that all circuits that radiateth and upon which thou worketh are grounded lest they lift thee to high-frequency potential and cause thee to radiate also.(4) Take care thou useth the proper method when thou taketh the measure of high-voltage circuits so that thou doth not incinerate both thee and the meter, for verily though thou hast no account number and can be easily replaced, the meter doth have one and as a consequence bringeth much woe upon the supply department.(5)Tarry thee not amongst those who engage in intentional shocks for they are surely non-believers and are not long for this world.(6) Take care thou tampereth not with interlocks and safety devices, for this incureth the wrath of thy seniors and bringeth the fury of the safety officer down upon thy head and shoulders.(7) Work thee not on energized equipment, for if thou doeth, thy mates will surely be buying lunch without thee and thy space at the table will be filled by another.(8,) Verily, verily I say unto thee, never service high-voltage equipment alone, for electric cooking is a slothful process, and thou might sizzle in thy own fat for hours on end before thy Maker sees fit to end thy misery and drag thee into His fold.(9) Trifle thee not with radioactive tubes and substances lest thou commence to glow in the dark like a lightning bug.(10) Commit thee to memory the works of the prophets, which are written in the instruction books, which giveth the straight info and which consoleth thee, and thou cannot make mistakes.-From Orbit, the Journal of the Rutherford High Energy Laboratory, Didcot, England (31 January 1965) p.12Nine often gets changed to"Triffle thee not with microwaves, least thy wife haveth no use for thee, and thy friends will come to consoleth her"Microwaves, will heat up the testes and cornea first...There is another on about not working with those who wire rat's nests, but I can't find it on line.Ah, EDIT:I found the NAVY Version:I quoteth:I Beware of the lightning that lurketh in seemingly uncharged capacitors, lest it cause thee to bounce upon thy buttocks in an unseamanlike manner and cause thy hair to stand on end, thereby exceeding regulation length.II Cause thou the switch that supplieth large quantities of juice to be opened and thusly tagged, that thy days may be long in this earthly vale.III Prove to thyself that all circuits that radiateth and upon which thou worketh are grounded and thusly tagged, lest they lift thee to radio frequency potential and causeth thee to radiate with the angels.IV Tarry thou not amongst those fools that engage in intentional shocks, for they are not long of this world and are surely unbelievers.V Take care thou useth the proper method when thou taketh the measure of high voltage so that thou dost not incinerate both thee and thy test meter. For verily, though thou has no NSN and can be easily surveyed, the test meter has one, and as a consequence, bringeth much woe unto thy supply officer.VI Take care thou tamperest not with interlocks and safety devices, for this incurreth the wrath of thy department head and bringeth the fury of thy commanding officer on thy head.VII Work thou not on energized equipment without proper procedures, for if thou dost so, thy shipmates will surely be buying beers for thy widow and consoling her in certain ways not generally acceptable to thee.VIII Verily, verily, I say unto thee, never service equipment alone, for electrical cooking is a slow process, and thou might sizzle in thy own fat upon a hot circuit for hours on end before thy maker sees fit to end thy misery and drag thee into his fold.IX Trifle thee not with radioactive tubes and substances lest thou commence to glow in the dark like a lightning bug and thy wife be frustrated and have no further use for thee except for thy wages.X Commit thou to memory all the words of the prophets which are written down in the 300th chapter of thy Bible which is the "Naval Ships' Technical Manual", and giveth out with the straight dope and consoleth thee when thou hast suffered a ream job by thy division LPO.Steve

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 04:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 08, 2024, 01:48:28 pmNothing you have written strikes me as "mean". You have gently given solid information, and after it was ignored, given the information less gently. Good; just what any concerned citizen ought to do in their neighbourhood.As for helping hobbyists - it can indeed provide great pleasure for both partiesFor decades now usenet groups and forums have been plagued by simple trolls, kooks, vampire timewasters, simpletons, and people that can't assess how ignorant they are.Youdo not fall into any of those categories.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 04:23:34 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 08, 2024, 12:09:56 pmI also run with sharp scissor too.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 04:54:08 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 04:23:34 pmi would like to be able to distinguish that comment from one that might be made by a troll or vampire timewaster. What test do you think would allow me to do that?

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 05:17:04 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 07, 2024, 04:05:19 pmUnless I misunderstand, we surely aren't talking about milliwatt lasers, are we? We're talking about melting solder - surely that will require watts of laser light, won't it?Does anyone know, or can estimate, the rough magnitude of laser power required?Assuming it is more than the milliwatt range, we've got a hand-held multi-watt laser being pointed at shiny metal, plus at components reflective on multiple surfaces. This laser light is going to be reflected all over the place, unpredictably.This is a major safety hazard. How will you protect yourself, and people, from being accidentally "hit" with this instantly-blinding laser light dancing all over the shop?

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 05:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 08, 2024, 05:17:04 pmYou didn't read all the posts, now did ya?How do I know that? Your reply, that's how.Anyways, yeah safety, I just gonna turn it on full power in a crowded train station without my laser glasses on, lets see who and what gets blasted by reflected 805nm light, those who can't find way to their train platform will be marked as having eye damage.Although, I guessing readers up until this point got some kind of "safety" message from all the posts about laser safety, so 'you' did good.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 06:34:31 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 05:30:50 pmI would like to be able to distinguish those comments from ones that might be made by a troll or vampire timewaster. What test do you think would allow me to do that?

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 07:28:07 pm
content: Good news, the FAP800-40watt arrived today, was able to power it on. Used surplus unit, but it does fire out 40w.I am also testing same solering technique using a 450nm 10w optical.Once some solder testing is done I will post some pics.Keep up the laser safety procedures, you don't want to take your eye out, or your neighbor's eye.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 07:51:57 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 07:28:07 pmAn uncharitable person might claim you had used other means to do any soldering. That could be avoided by you showing a video of it in the process of soldering.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 08:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 08, 2024, 07:51:57 pmDoes the vid need to be 4k or 8k, and then some Chain of Custody from my video camera to some online vid dumping site? If it were VGA 6x4 12fps, you would question the validity? Just wondering up front, to avoid the nonsense you might post later.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 08:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 08:00:43 pmYou can see from this thread what is causing people to have doubts about your techniques.You have all the knowledge about what you are doing, how, and why.You are in the best position to work out how to avoid/dispel the doubts.Over to you...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 11:55:20 pm
content: Apparently you haven't communicated what you want. In the opening post of the thread you stated your intentions and ask for thoughts.Many thoughts were provided, most of which you rejected out of hand, so they they weren't the kind of thoughts you were looking for.You still seem unsatisfied by the responses, so it seems you need to be more specific about what you want. Applause? Financing? Help with what you don't already know? Maybe it would be helpful to state what you don't know and want help with since a great many comments have received an "I already know that response".

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 09:02:49 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 08, 2024, 05:30:50 pmActually you are completely wrong: I read the whole thread twice before posting. I was asking if anyone had hard data or an informed estimate about the laser power needed to solder a joint, and the answer is "not really", which is fine.My point was that we seem to be talking about watts, or tens of watts, which is an enormously dangerous amount of laser power to have reflecting around the workshop (because most of it will reflect).Milliwatt lasers can blind. I just wanted to join the chorus from other contributors - I don't think you are taking the safety issues seriously enough.Let me emphasise: - apart from the safety thing, I am not at all naysaying your project. I think the idea of being able to take a hand-held device, aim it at a joint using a low power spot, and then press a button to get an instant soldered joint would besupercool. I could use one of them, for sure (putting aside for now the safety concerns).

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 02:31:44 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 09, 2024, 09:02:49 amThen I can only assume you did not comprehend what you were reading.Let me restate it again.The "hand-held" part is just the end of the laser cable, made into a wand, like the Dremel wand I posted. I then said it would be held in place when used for the intended purpose. I will probably just 3D print some type of wand shell that can hold the cable and provide mounting ability to a holder of some sort.So what part of that did you not understand? Or perhaps just restating it now makes more sense to you?

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 02:34:40 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 08, 2024, 11:55:20 pmPost #2 responded with "how good is your health insurance". I never asked about health insurance.How about this question. 805nm or 450nm, which is better for this project, for doing laser soldering?

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 02:55:20 pm
content: 450nmhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1526612522005722

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 04:01:39 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 09, 2024, 02:31:44 pmQuite possibly - I am, after all, an intellectual pygmy.Quote from: Randy222 on October 09, 2024, 02:31:44 pmI don't understand what you mean by the "laser cable". You mean a fibre optic waveguide? If that is handheld, isn't it similar in effect as holding the laser?The bit I did miss is the "held in place" part. It seems a shame, because I think a great strength of your idea is the ability to aim the spot by hand and then hit the "go" button for an instant soldered joint. A jig takes away some of the utility, I think.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 08:58:36 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 09, 2024, 04:01:39 pmYou don't unerstand "laser cable"? Everyone calls them laser cables, even Coherent. Call it waht you want, you know what it is.The laser end is a hand-held format, like the Dremel wand pic I posted, the pic you looked at. It's not a big giant 100lb box needing crazy mounts. My project is for doing precision soldering of small parts for Rf components. Irons leave globs of solder which messes with impedance, reflow is ok but there's a good amount of HAZ created. Laser is a better way.When the time comes I will look into some sort of QD mount for the wand, so you place it, focus it to the spot needing solder weld, hide under a mountain, an MC will have a programmed laser blast profile, blast & solder, then come back out from under the mountain.

author: artbyrobot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 02:17:35 am
content: An immediate use I see for this genius idea is when soldering smd components, sometimes you apply heat with the tip of the iron and then when you remove the iron it is stuck on the tip of the iron. So you have to hold the component down with something while you dab at it. With this laser soldering tool, that would never happen. This could free up your left hand as well. I'd definitely want one to experiment with and possibly start using regularly. I'm sure I'd think of a ton of uses outside of the original ones as well. It would be a great multi-tool. Like heating up a stuck bolt. Or melting a little piece of hot glue stick for a precision glue dot. Or using in place of a wood burner to make a little design in wood. Or to cut plastic - like cutting a hole in it. That would be huge for me. Or cutting slices out of it. Or cut a belt or string and have the singed edge so it doesn't fray. I'd probably use this all the time.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 04:51:22 am
content: Quote from: artbyrobot on October 10, 2024, 02:17:35 amI realise sometimes you wish you had a third hand, but I find with soldering - two hands works just fine ? When soldering SMD, I don't think I've ever had a need to do it "one handed". Also, if you have to "dab" at a component, I'm not sure you're soldering it right..Quote from: artbyrobot on October 10, 2024, 02:17:35 amSurely all those cases would require different wavelengths since they are all very different materials with different absorption? Plus, as stated in this thread, in order ot have the power to do the above in a reasonably short time, the reflections would be wild and so would have to be done inside some sort of enclosure.Perhaps there are cases where it would be "better" than current methods, but so far I can't think of any.

author: artbyrobot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 05:03:24 am
content: As to smd soldering, my approach is unique probably. I don't like hunching over a desk craning my neck and hurting my back. I sit back in a reclining position with elbows at sides like reading a book. I have the work piece at chin level and a visor on. I solder with right hand. My left hand has to hold the work piece and has to hold the smd component in position. I cup bottom of workpiece with fingers of left hand and the thumb of left hand presses down onto the smd component to hold it in place. I use a custom thumb sleeve with a pointed metal tip that puts precision pressure onto the smd component to keep it in place. Also when I say dab I mean the iron enters the solder paste, liquifies it, and then retracts. It is a dab. Oh yeah I use low temp solder paste always. Anyways if I had this laser I would not need to hold the component in place with my thumb mounted metal pointed tip. I could just have it sticking to the solder paste and laser it. Done. Would be less fiddly and save a bit of time.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 09:40:36 am
content: Quote from: artbyrobot on October 10, 2024, 05:03:24 amIs that a response to a specific post, or a random interjection?

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 10:08:10 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 09, 2024, 08:58:36 pmThanks for that. I'm very familiar with optical fibre, having worked in telecomms most of my career. I'm also familiar with optical fibre cables (one or more fibres bundled into a protective outer sheath). I just hadn't heard of "laser cable" as a distinct term. You are right - it is obviously widely used. Thank you for pointing it out and correcting me.When I read your first post I thought it was a brand new idea and - apart from my safety concerns - would be very handy. I love the basic concept of aiming a dot - perhaps even by hand - and then hitting a button for an instant soldered joint. So cool. Now having read the thread, I see that commercial units are already available and academic papers have been written analysing their performance. My question is: are you tempted to make the jump to a commercial product now? Or is your own system sufficiently distinctive?I've learned a lot in this thread - thanks.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 03:39:37 pm
content: Quote from: artbyrobot on October 10, 2024, 02:17:35 amYour applications for laser use may be ok, but they are quite different than using the laser to spot weld or solder. Probably also good to look at if your applications work best with CW or Pulse type laser, what wavelength, and at what power. "laser" in general terms has lots of applications.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 03:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: artbyrobot on October 10, 2024, 02:17:35 amAt risk of being a boring bastard (yeah, yeak, OK!), lasers with enough power to do those things (a few watts, probably) are dangerous if used like a multitool. Laser light reflects off surfaces (depending on the reflectivity, obviously), and it is these reflections that are dangerous, because their direction and power are essentially unpredictable when you are using it hand-held. Also, some lasers - such as the one you imagine using on wood - might also burn skin if you let the beam wobble over your thumb.I love the idea, but the thought of several watts of reflected laser light bouncing off in unpredictable directions scares me.That's it - I promise not to mention safety again!

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 04:38:15 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 10, 2024, 09:40:36 amI believe that was in response to my comment about needing to "hold down a component" whilst soldering. He seems to have specific requirements, and as such was interested in the topic of this thread - I was just saying I do just fine with two hands.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 06:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 10, 2024, 04:38:15 pmQuite possibly, but it would have beenobviousif artbyrobot had quoted that.Elsewhere artbyrobot has refused, despite a surprising number of requests (including mods!), to quote in the traditional way. The reasons don't stack up, being along the lines of "it doesn't look good on my screen", and "it is too difficult for me".I suggest youdon't botherto follow this link and read the rest of the page. For reference only:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-advanced-realistic-humanoid-robots-project-441835/msg5672429/#msg5672429

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2024, 12:07:56 am
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 09, 2024, 02:34:40 pmI'll make this comment and probably not bother you again. No, you never asked about health insurance. But you ask a very general question - thoughts. Post #2 is definitely a thought. Just not what you wanted to hear. You have made it clear that you don't want to hear about safety issues in later posts. But the way to shut that off is not to state that it is obvious, or ridiculous or whatever, but do what you did a few pages later and agree that appropriate safety precautions need to be taken, and that due to the complexity and seriousness of the issue overkill is the appropriate approach. The important thing from an emotional/communication point of view - saying I hear you, I agree and will take steps. Now lets talk about other issues.I agree with several others that a tool that could easily and safely do what you briefly outline is very appealing. But life is never perfect. You have pointed out that the simple and inexpensive standard approach has drawbacks, not least of which is the drag of solder from the joint. Your approach is no different. There are drawbacks. Which when you finish may convince you that it wasn't a wonderful solution.A few posts ago you more completely described the issues that you are trying to solve in your own soldering operation. In the guise of "thoughts" here is another partial solution to your issue (fundamentally one we all share, not enough hands). An appropriate size board vise on an adjustable ball mount relieves you of holding the board and allows you to use both hands to address other issues. You might want to try it while you are developing your solution, and it might also end up being part of your solution.

author: vivi-d
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 05:23:36 pm
content: Lasers deserve respect.When I was in grade school, I had the idea of making a device to track and zap mosquitos with a laser. It was part of a class where the final project was to invent something new. Extra credit going to those with a working prototype. Luckily my teacher stopped me from harvesting laser diodes from CD drives and creating something dangrourus. LOL

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 05:31:34 pm
content: I have a 10W (output power) laser on my workbench at work right now. I’ll gladly solder a cable to it and build the MOSFET switch the professor asked for, but I’ll be damned if I’ll turn it on in my lab. :p

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 05:37:53 pm
content: Quote from: vivi-d on October 25, 2024, 05:23:36 pmI address my laser with "yes sir", "no sir".I can say the same for the bad drivers who have money and buy fancy sports cars.Probably way more killed and injured from bad drivers than any laser accidents.At some point we'll be arguing that laser injuries have a higher rate than those who trip on their showlace and crack their head open, something like 1-in-100,000 who run lasers , vs, 1-in-101,000 who wear shoes with laces.Yeah, lasers can be dangerous, just like most things in life. So please, all readers here, play with lasers like juggling running chainsaws, very carefully.Quote from: tooki on October 25, 2024, 05:31:34 pmNot sure I follow your logic. You would take the time to build it, then just scrap it? Makes no sesne.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 06:05:08 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 25, 2024, 05:37:53 pmWhere did I say anything about scrapping it? Oh right,I didn’t.I was asked by a professor to build a MOSFET switch for it and wire it up to the laser. So I will do that and then give it to the professor to set up inhislaser lab, wherehecan operate it safely.I am damned well not turning on a 10W laser inmylab, which is not a laser lab.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 08:17:29 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 25, 2024, 05:37:53 pmWith hilariously misleading imaginary statistics like that, I've got some Tiger repellant to sell you.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 08:30:31 pm
content: CO2 laser ? Even more scary as you can't see CO2.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 09:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 25, 2024, 05:37:53 pmWe lock up people who misuse cars, chainsaws, etc in ways thatmighthurt other people.We should lock up people who misuse lasers in ways thatmighthurt other people.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 04:14:22 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 25, 2024, 09:00:46 pmJuggling chainsaws is not a misuse of chainsaws, nor have I ever seen anyone locked up for juggling chainsaws.A "bad driver" is not a misue of a vehicle.You use the word "might", which does not fit well into most systems of law.Aside from the "lasers are dangerous" chatter, I also have a 10w(optical) blue laser. The blue dual-diode laser already came with its own control making it easy to hook to my MC, for blasting things.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 04:31:47 pm
content: Quote from: Randy222 on October 28, 2024, 04:14:22 pmTwo strawman arguments, about "juggling chainsaws" and "bad drivers".One irrelevant statement, about what you guess is in various systems of law.Completely unimpressive, but about par for the course with you.

author: vivi-d
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:21:41 pm
content: Looking forward to seeing a video of this laser system of yours...