How to start a home business (for Electronic Engineer) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 03:26:26 pm
content: Hi folks;I wonder what is the best choice for EE to start a home business (or a no budget business) ? Or what should I do to obtain market information ?I'm good with technical stuff but I've zero knowledge about how to sell things orwhat should I produce? provide services ?I humbly request your guidance

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 03:29:12 pm
content: In what aspect, complete design of widgets, software, etc? Do you have any qualifications, related experience?

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 04:08:59 pm
content: I've technical experience and qualifications. BSc in Physics and EE. I designed mostly embbedded systems, high speed systems and a little bit of RF

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 04:16:07 pm
content: You have to start with an idea, not the desire. Then analyze the idea for business potential. Next, figure out if it is pracrical for a one-man-band to operate.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 04:53:23 pm
content: do you want to create your own products, IP and sell that ?or do you want to be a for-hire designer. Meaning someone has an idea for a product but does nto know how to build the electronics that is needed. ?First case is hard ot scrape a living. prepare for long hours long days lots of years to stamp out something successful and not get your lunch eaten prematurely.second is equally difficult. prepare for annoying customers that do not know what they want, its always too expensive, have unreasonable demands, so you get to spend long hours, long days ...

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 05:10:47 pm
content: First, work out how you might get customers, real ones, with enough money to pay you well. If you can't work that out, get a real job.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 05:47:49 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 04, 2015, 04:53:23 pmI have personally experienced both of those cases in both mechanical and electrical engineering and manufacturing. For the moment my business is focusing on a single product family for a niche industrial market. I just woke up this morning after having to do a 30 hour day. Yes, 30 hour day. Right now, my big push is automation, automation, and more automation to prevent the ultra-long days but that is nearly its own full time job on top of everything else. Phone calls, emails, website, trash cans, deliveries, bill paying.....all keep me away from the 'real' job until about 6 hours into the day. At that time I can begin work on whatever design or manufacturing task needs to be done. I could probably write a 1000 page book on my 10 year experience of starting and operating a small manufacturing business - but of course there is no time for that.In the end, I would not trade it for a real job. At this point I have made myself unemployable because I can't work with anyone that is not capable of doing 1- different jobs. It is really nice to not have to commute, in my case that saves about 1.5hrs per day. I have my 'system' that no one will question or mess with. Lots and lots of good reasons. My average income is not bad when you look at it over large spans of time, but it is VERY dynamic making it difficult to plan anything. When I have a big inrush of work, the only option is to put the money aside to cover the inevitable slow periods.There is good and bad in starting your own home based business. Of all the people I have known in my entire life, VERY few of them would be willing to put in what it takes to make it happen.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 07:19:43 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on September 04, 2015, 05:10:47 pmcouldn't agree more with KJDS above. the PAYING customers (actually well paying) are the essential part of any business. don't fool yourself with "they will come later on"... they won't... either you have customers from the very beginning or your business is doomed in it's inception.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 07:27:32 pm
content: This is true. For my efforts, I already had the customers attention from previous businesses that I started. I contacted a few and told them what I was planning and they were receptive. on nights/weekends I made a few prototypes of simple stuff and they were well received. Over time, I learned more and created more sophisticated stuff and eventually made the leap to being a full time gig. It was slow, difficult, and scary.Without the initial customers working with me, I would have moved on.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 08:21:34 pm
content: Understand what your customers need in order to satisfytheircustomers, and then explain to your customers how you can help them satisfy their customers. You have a 30s "elevator pitch" in which to get them sufficiently interested that they want to hear more.Also, have a look athttp://hardware.slashdot.org/story/15/09/04/202244/brady-forrest-talks-about-building-a-hardware-startup-video

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 09:00:28 pm
content: Get customers first, then start the business once you need to do so for paperwork.I wouldn't even bother unless you have people you know first. In my case it was a result of word of mouth/friends and networking.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 09:20:52 pm
content: Quote from: marshallh on September 04, 2015, 09:00:28 pmThat is one way of doing it. The other way is finding a niche in the market, put a sales team and an engineering team together and work from there. Takes a lot of cash but the more serious businesses which sell a product get jumpstarted that way. Actually the engineering part isn't something you need 100% in-house. A lot of companies outsource that to smaller (single person) companies. I have several customers who only do sales and production. Engineering is outsourced completely.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 09:40:02 pm
content: I have had three careers:1) Professional EE employee.2) Professional SW/EE Consultant.3) EE Product development and sales.1) Is absolutely the easier path if you already have a degree and experience. If you like to work with other people, don't mind having a boss, don't mind a fair amount of needless meetings and some overtime then an employer would pay more than you likely can make yourself in option 2 or 3.2) Requires marketing and sales skills in addition to the technical skills. Introverted engineers with zero people skills would not do well here. You manage your time yourself and will likely work harder than scenario 1 for not much more money overall. It is really a choice for the "free mind".3) Absolutely the hardest option. Successful businesses are not technological driven but marketing driven. Apple would not have happened if Steve Wozniak would have been in charge. Steve Jobs made it happen. Any business is about selling, hustling, people skills (again) and, sometimes, having an unfair advantage. Any business success is a result of its marketing, not what it delivers.If you have no clue then start reading some books about marketing. A lot of boos are too theoretical so I like this guy:http://www.amazon.com/Dan-S.-Kennedy/e/B000AP7EBS/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1441402755&sr=1-2-ent

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 11:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 04, 2015, 09:20:52 pmPutting a team together up front MASSIVELY increases risk. Outsourcing engineering at the beginning is a MASSIVE risk. I have unfortunate tales to tell on those topics.For one of my companies, I needed a lot of CNC parts to be prototyped and then made in modest quantity. Sounds simple enough to get SolidWorks files over to a CNC shop and start cutting right? Not so fast. To get the part you are expecting you have to define every detail by making manufacturing drawings. Then you have to wait until the CNC shop has time for you. Next, they have to program and setup your part which is slow and expensive. They will program it in software that you don't have so if you need to make changes, it is a total pain in the ass followed by a discontinuity from what they are making and what you have designed. When the part comes back, it may or may not work because of a design problem or a CNC problem. After a few phone calls and emails, you have to drive to their shop with all the mating parts to figure out how to fix it. That will be followed by re-programming the new and improved part and machining it. It will go on and on until you run out of money or time or both.If you are outsourcing the engineering, the engineer will blame the CNC guys and CNC guys will say they did not have accurate information. This example has many parallels in electronics as well - which I have also learned the hard way. When I started the mechanical design business - I purchased a CNC mill on the first day. I had no idea how to even turn it on, much less make a useful part. A couple of long nights a few broken tools later, I was machining what I wanted, when I wanted it. It was slow and inefficient at first, but overall much faster than outsourcing to the fastest shop on earth. At the end of the first year, I had prototyped about 200 parts or so and did small batch production on about 75 of those. The estimated bill for all that would have been more than I paid for the CNC and all the associated expenses that go with it - including the building I was renting. The more valuable part of that decision was that I learned how to design for the CNC process in detail. After that first year, I had flown far beyond all the other engineers that I worked knew because they only knew one single skill. On paper, they may be much smarter than I, but I can run circles around them because I design and manufacture with the same hands. I don't have to document or communicate anything to anyone - I just think of the part, design it, and machine it. Done. Easy. Fast. PROFITABLE! Low risk.As things progressed, I continued to learn. The company got two 5-axis mills, advanced software, tools, etc. At that point I could make anything that a mill can make. That is when I sold them - goodbye CNC's. I know how it works and now can effectively outsource my parts. There is no machine shop that can tell me anything about how much it should cost, because I already know and the parts were designed with specific tools in mind. If I outsourced from the beginning (i tried) parts take forever and I am at the mercy of the generally poor suggestions the machinists have.That became my strategy as I transitioned into electronics as well - learn as much as possible. I had hired a couple of EE's and the experience was not good. I did not know how to lead them because I only knew electronics at a hobby level. They were slow and expensive just like the CNC shops making the metal parts. When something was not going well, I could only listen to whatever reason they came up with and wait for them to figure it out. I decided to get rid of them and dive into electronics head first with the goal of integrating it into my career. Like the CNC shop, the learning curve has been steep and continuous. After about a year, I produced my first commercial product. The flood gates opened after that. I had learned to design, PCB layout, assembly, test, etc. Again, I did not have to wait on anyone for anything. Now that I have some experience and a few products under my belt, I can now outsource effectively. I know how and what to communicate.The point is, outsourcing is not easy at all and a very expensive way to start a business. You may or may not get what you want, but you will definitely spend the money. My strategy of starting small and inching my way up works as the slow and steady method. I did not have much money up front and wanted to ensure short term survival and long term success.Starting a small business where you have ALL the skills to go end-to-end is my recommendation. Build a foundation and get a head of steam before hiring people and outsourcing engineering.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 11:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on September 04, 2015, 11:35:25 pmBut all this doesn't scale very well. Finding someone you can work with can be hard though. Over the pas decades I have outsourced all kinds of jobs (manufacturing, programming, mechanical, etc) and the trick is to make someone responsible for a part of the system instead of letting them make one single component which -to put it bluntly- needs to fit in a hole. That just doesn't work. But you have to have the ability to convey your requirements clearly AND have to allow yourself to gain the trust someone else can do the job as good as you can or even better.

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2015, 11:54:33 pm
content: About 9.5years ago my wife and I decided to start a repair business, specialising in automotive electronics. It soon grew, but the amount of automotive stuff I do now is probably 10% of turnover. It's been a hard slog for years and still is, but it's a lot better. Once people know about you, they will seek you out if you're any good. People talk to people. I too try to do as much as I can in house. Keeps my profits up and gets things done much faster. Do your homework first and be prepared to do it tough sometimes.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 12:00:08 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 04, 2015, 11:45:56 pmThere is no question this does not scale - it is the starting point which it the thread topic. There will be nothing to scale if the business never starts. Learning CNC machining and electronics design is only a means to an end. The end is have a super sharp team that is effective at making what I envision. They can be staff or outsourced. Now that I have a foundation that can survive on it's own - I am now looking to outsiders to help. Without knowing those other skills I would never know if my contractors were good or not. I have met a lot of people that can eventually get the job done - but too slowly. Others, just can't get it done, but I would not know if I asked for something impossible or I just hired the wrong person to design it. Now I know. I can pick the winners out of a crowd and hire them when needed with the security of a good informed decision and a business that can stand on it's own without them.Working out of my house saves TONS of money. Being willing to do anything and everything makes my business profitable where a shop with a few employees would be an immediate fail. Super flexible to deal with the ups and downs of a normal business cycle.

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 12:10:06 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on September 05, 2015, 12:00:08 amI wish sometimes I had the room to work out of my house. The overheads kill profits.... BUT it gets me away from work when I go home. Swings, roundabouts.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:19:02 am
content: QuoteThat is possibly the BEST advice i have ever read !Before you embark on something , make sure you know what it takes. If you don't : prepare to get ripped a new one each and every time !Many times i have seen situations where, an inexperienced company or person , tries to get a board made and pays through the nose. Simply because they do not know what the real costs are and how the industry works and what the limitations are. The fabs won't tell you because their large income is form the rush jobs. the mass volume jobs are not really profitable and it's a dog-eat-dog world. Want a rush job, they'll be all over you like flies on shit if they smell you are clueless.And you'll end up the turd ...The same goes for mechanical stuff. Knowing how things are done and applying small tweaks can save you tons of money. And, when in negotiations or talk about a contract you can immediately find out if they are screwing you or not.A frriend of mine needed a mold made for a simple hinged piece of material. The injection molding company ordered an expensive mold. and billed them for machine time.Modifying the design just a tiny little bit made the mold much much simpler and the injection time halved. When he confronted the molding company with that their answer was : we are not in the business to teach people mold making or injection molding.We are in the business of delivering you what you ask on time at the best price. If you ask for something difficult we will still give you the best price for the difficult bit , but we will not tell you how to make it in an easier and cheaper way. That would be cutting our own throat...And that is the same in EVERY industry.Make sure you are familiar with production processes and technology , even if it is not your primary activity. just know the basics. Try things out for yourself. follow a few training courses, read literature, get field-specific magazines. talk to the machine operators.just walking into a company asking them can you make this ... is a sure way to get screwed.walking in a company telling them : i want this made , so and so , with this process (and with a good idea of the price in mind) will yield a completely different result. Your contractor will go 'damn this guy knows about technology , we better not muck about , he'll know if we try to BS him.I will give you a real life example.When i moved to SJ , the division over there did their own design of the PCB and used an inbetween company to have the boards made. this inbetween company used various fabs and you never really knew what fab the board came from. This inbetween company mucked around with your designs to get them run in the cheapest fab. sometimes they would add copper thieving ( on 4GHz boards ? not allowed ... ) , sometimes they would change the layer stack or pick whatever dielectric they had laying around.once they made me a 3 layer board ... cause they didn't realise there was one plane in there and did not read in the gerber for that plane... once the gold flash was so thin you could rub it off by swiping your finger across the board..Their prices were outrageous, but nobody in that division knew any better. I had made boards with several fabs before. when i confronted them with their outrageous prices they were pissed off beyond belief.. they had to cut their prices in half !Another situation was about a year ago. I needed a board with laser via's and 3mil track and gap. The company was going to have these boards made in a local italian shop. 50$ per board... That sounded a lot to me. I was going on a quest to find out more. i called a few of my 'old' board houses in europe. one of them gave me a strrange reply.: "is this the board for your italian division ?"euh, yes .. why ? oh we have had requests from your contractor xyz to build this for them. this is the price.so contractor didn't build that board. they didn't even have the machinery to do it so they, in turn , subcontracted it further, without letting us on. They had already made price negotiations...I had a friend of mine , using a different company address place an order for a similar board using the same technology. HALF price !!!i confronted them with this .. the answer was : well there is only really two companies in europe that can run this board as it requires machine xyz and there are only two of these in europe. ( maskless imagers )So i called around here. in a radius of 20 miles there were 5 board shops that could make my boards ... 12$ was the cheapest , 14 $ the most expensive. The european board houses asked 25$ since only they had the equipment and knew you could go nowhere else. our subcontractor billed us 50$ ...needless to say several heads rolled ....It pays to know the industry you need services from ...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 04:42:43 am
content: - First.. Product ready to sell- Second.. Business to sell/make moreDon't get too caught up thinking you need your product to be 1000% perfect before you start selling it.A lot of engineers get into the mindset that they are going to have 100's of angry customers unless their product is perfect to start with and it's just not the case. (typical perfectionist)Of course it does need to be priced well, if it's really expensive people do expect it to be up to that level of quality.Luckily, if you start by getting your product working as your hobby doing most of the work yourself. Then you usually have the ability to sell it quite cheap compared to your competition due to having almost zero costs other than parts. And you can still make a good profit.The only thing you don't have is the ability to make is large quantities. So you need to find a product that sells in the $200-500 range rather than trying to sell lots of $20 items.You will always get a small amount of people who do stupid stuff and complain but the vast majority of people can work past minor flaws or those useful features that you haven't yet implemented.Oh and finally, good customer service goes a long way to getting you more business

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 am
content: Thank you very much for enlightening me.But how do you discover niche market ? Audiophile market is filled with products, Fire detectors/alarms requires a lot of certification and filled with all kinds of things. In UPS/Power electronics, research is expensive and risky and price is very competitive. People don't care about efficiency but price. In LED lighting, money goes to LED manufacturerWhat do you think ?

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 08:06:01 am
content: But how do you discover niche market ?Some niches:Telemetry box... for the wanna-be rice boys, too fast too furious, car nutz, drag racing crowdUAV, robots, toys, remote controls... for the big boys that still want to play with toysphotography, film, digital video... for the wanna-be film makers, photographers, time lapse obsessedtest equipment, standards/reference... for the measurebators, doing it everydaypotted plants, gardening, lawnmaster... for people obsessed with lawncare, gardeningsolar, wind, ups, dc-to-ac.... for the doomsday preppers, greenpeace loving crowdflashlights.... I don't get it... but yeah, some people are obsessed about stupid flashlights!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:16:18 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 05, 2015, 03:19:02 amThere is a very simple trick to avoid all this: a cost driven process. A product only sells if the price is right. From that price you can determine the cost of the components. So if you outsource something you get quotes first. If they are over budget then you tell the supplier how much it may cost. That is how it works in the real world. But that is only for volume production. Who cares about the cost of a one-off board? The time you lost by looking for different vendors, getting your bosses all upset probably cost more than the savings.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:19:09 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on September 04, 2015, 04:16:07 pmYes, this.Find a product niche that no one has filled, or isn't filling with a decent product.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:20:21 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 amDo you have any areas of personal interest?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:26:23 am
content: Quote from: fivefish on September 05, 2015, 08:06:01 amWas just talking to David2 about this the other day.Talking about a product idea that eventually tangented to something along the lines of a lab voltage reference standard. Much like that Geller guy:http://www.gellerlabs.com/He was kind of the defacto standard for cheap lab reference standards, but he decided to shut down.Bingo, a niche has just opened.I argued with David2 that it might not be worthwhile financially if you did it properly (e.g. test, burn in, and characterise each unit), but I didn't run the numbers, that was just a gut feel.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:37:25 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 amThe audiophile market is a weird one, usually requiring a lot more BS than engineering. There are related markets, like effects for guitarists, where small players still do well. However, if you don't already know much about the market, its probably not for you.Quote from: Icarus on September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 amCertification is not the issue with building automatation type devices, like fire detectors. The real issue is you need massive volumes to get the pricing needed to succeed. Prices are very very aggressive.Quote from: Icarus on September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 amThe UPS market, and related areas like solar power, are diverse. Some buyers only care about price. Others will pay a lot for efficiency. However, if you don't know to get to an efficiency of 96% or 97% you'll probably be in the bloodbath market.Quote from: Icarus on September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 amLED makers get a very poor price. People making systems from LEDs make more money. There must be opportunities for specialised LED lighting solutions for various niches, but if you try to get into the LED volume market as a new entrant you will be crushed.Quote from: Icarus on September 05, 2015, 07:26:51 amI think you need to do a lot more thinking about how you specifically might be able to find a niche where you can play. Looking at market segments as a homogeneous whole will lead you to the conclusion than none of them are accessible to you.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:39:09 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on September 04, 2015, 11:35:25 pmI have absolutely the same expierience on those things. I needed to get aluminium welded, nothing special, but I was:-unable to choose between different welding/part/joint methods.-unable to estimate the job in dollars.-unable to communicate to good welders in a meaningful way.-unable to select good welders or companies.So I bought a good TIG AC/DC device, a helmet and a cooler. 100 hours later I could do a basic job and many hours later I reached to do other things as well.I will never be the best welder, fastest welder, most productive welder, but the knowledge is often used in project without me welding.An there will always be occasions when outsourcing goes terribly wrong, and a last-minute solution is needed.Quote from: rx8pilot on September 04, 2015, 11:35:25 pmYou definively need to master ALL skills in a startup or small business. Also towards the customers, it's the NUMBER ONE advantage that a small business has against the big companies.

author: hamdi.tn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 12:39:13 pm
content: I started my own business one year ago, and to say it was easy at first cause i had clients from the very beginning, but i learned things on the way and for learning doesn't make it any easier.-First having technical skills is good but a one man band is not that easy, don't fool your self with i will work hard, 1 year is enough to make you mentally and physically exhausted.-Don't sell cheap, i did that as some ppl here said based on a wrong idea that things will grow up, they don't .few project (what a self working man can handle ) with not enough revenue to hire ppl for marketing or EE so you can free some time to do marketing yourself.it's an endless running.-If you don't know the true value of the market for what you doing, my advice is to try to get a work in some small to medium company where this kind of informations are easier to get.-This kind of business, you client is your best marketing agent, it's always a word of mouth. If you don't have the right ppl to help you doing that again get a job where you can meet ppl and build up your network.-Getting new client is a pain in the ass, but most ppl appreciate the exclusive contact with them and that's a big advantage over big company, so when you get one it will probably stick with you for a long time ( as long as work is done) .-You don't mention your country, but if it's one of those country where you have to fill 100 paper to get a 0.1$ transistor from mouser ( like the shit hole country i live in ) then think again before things get serious.-Am not sure if asking ppl what they need so you go and develop it is the correct way. i been doing this all the time for a loooong loooong looooooooong time. try to build an idea, and use kickstarter to estimate ppl interest in it. i saw a lot of bullshit product in kickstarter, am sure now anything can be selledGood luck

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 02:16:40 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 05, 2015, 11:20:21 amI don't have any hobby but electronics and embedded software. I've write some windows kernel filters for fun.P.S: I've just look at Geller labs and I've also designed a fluxgate magnetometer with all parts: magnetic core, winding, analog conditioning, PC interface every thing.It's a long shot but maybe I could sell ?Quote from: hamdi.tn on September 05, 2015, 12:39:13 pmI'm in Turkey (like the bird) and there is almost no R&D cooperation.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 05:23:04 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 05, 2015, 11:26:23 ami think the rise of the chinese ebay references killed him... there's a dude in taiwan that has three 3485 and he builkds really nice reference modules in a nice acrylic case, lithium ion cell , chargeable thru usb and all...

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 09:48:56 pm
content: The geller stuff was a bit basic:It seems like you have to add your own power supply?A competitor had a 9v block battery socket on the bottom of the pcb. Which raised it a bit and made working with it nicer.Had he made it a bit nicer with some kind of enclosure (plastic or alu or even custom alu milled) , some kind of burn-in service? , some kind of calibration "certificate" he might have been able to have something that his competitors did not have at that price point. Thus seizing a bigger market share for himself.Also some kind of marketing might be needed to survive in such market.--The pro over the china product would be- "trusted" component sourcing- EU / USA quality assurance- faster and possible cheaper shipping- possible better build quality and consistency- possible better documentation- possible burn-in service- possible better service- possible better "calibration" sheet / proceedings- possible re-calibration serviceSo there is a lot of room how it could be improved.But I would not base a company one one niche product , I would do multiple websites / business selling one or a few niche products.One tip for looking for a niche is look at hobbies. Many hobbies cost 1K to a few thousand dollars.Look at RC / FPV / UAV , to build a decent custom one you are over the 1K mark fast. Make one or more products that solve a problem for this market and you have one a reasonable market to sell to and two almost to none competitors for months to multiple years selling reasonable margin devices.Photography , camping (solar , charging , portable battery) , E-bikes (custom motor controller? , battery management system) , aquariums (monitoring , telemetry gsm , wifi ...) , design some measurement / data-logging device for the education / scientific market, make stuff for pets (animal tracking) , some kind of automation device for some market ....So many markets to get in to... I would just pick a few , spread the "risk" and make your workflow so that as little time as possible goes into these businesses. When you have a regular stream of orders let students / kids pack and ship the orders. This gives you more time to do useful things. Make good documentation (manual, videos?) , FAQ's so you are not spending much time answering "dumb" questions.In the meantime you could do some contracting if there is not enough sales revenue to pay your reasonably needed salary.For contracting clients like if your are like a one-stop shop:- Design schematics, Design pcb's- Assemble prototype pcb's for clients- Do some capacity of 3d CAD for cases or whatever (you may not need to use it, but they like it that you can)- Know something about manufacturing techniques: 3d printing, laser cutting cnc milling- Being able to do small 3dprinting , laser cutting and cnc jobs. These machines are pretty cheap these day in age. If you can't pay for them yourself than try to find a hackerspace or fablab in the area where you can do it.- Being able to do embedded programming in a semi-professional capabilityQT / VB / C# / .NET programming for GUI's and Some C , C++ programming for embedded programming. Having a reasonable base for programming is a plus. When you have that than it is not too hard to make something in a language that you have not used before without to much start up time.Having experience with linux is also a plus (command line, scripts , making / compiling / executing a program).Build your portfolio , raise your hourly price when you get more experience and have more jobs in you portfolio. EU / USA companies are willing to pay reasonable wages (30 - 80$ /hr) depending on the work and skills you have. Only do jobs that will end well , are you not sure that you can do it than It would be wise not to do it.Once a you have a few companies that like your work you will most likely have they as a long time customer providing a steady stream of work part- to full-time.Keep your overhead low. Accounting for small companies is around 500 euro a year here and than they do all the work for you. The only thing that you have to do is send them the invoices and check their work once a quarter.Try to do as much mechanical prototyping in house. An A4 Mylar stencil might cost you 25 euro delivered. And you might need 10-20-30 a year for proto work for customers. Why not buy that laser cutter machine for 1000-1600 euro and do them yourself. Now you have the ability to laser cut cases / windows / engraving (service) and you have the ability to make your own stencils which saves you money in the long term. It also offers more flexibility.A low end pnp like the liteplacer is ~1000 euro.It does a reasonable job and requires short setup time when the workflow is set up properly. Now you can offer a service for your clients by assembling board for them in the 0-20QTY range without you spending all those hours doing it by hand. Let the machine do most of the work and just check on it.(And no you may not make it a in house pick and place discussion)Same for 3d printing and cnc milling.--Focus your portfolio on the job demand. Look at which jobs clients have open (online on UpWork or whatever) and try to do some personal projects to put in your portfolio regarding those things.Some "Hot" things:- IOT (wifi , Bluetooth, m2m ...)- Wearable (screen? , Bluetooth LE , battery management)- Arduino / BBB / Pi shields- Automation (telemetry 3G/4G , WIFI , Bluetooth ....)- Energy Harvesting (got a job because I had it in my portfolio)- low / med / high power rf designs (look at TI)- Motor control (UAV market , 3 phase motor control (ESC's))- Portable battery solutions (lots of those custom solar battery things)- Portable GPS tracking devices....Now enough typing , lets see what the reactions are.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:03:34 pm
content: On the Geller voltage references, there was a fatal flaw. I would have bought one in an instant, but there was no "buy" button on his web site, no place to enter your credit card details in exchange for merchandise. That meant I never got to own one. I wonder how many sales were lost to that basic failure of marketing?The golden rule of sales is to make it easy for the customer to hand over their money. It doesn't matter how good your product is, if you don't close the sale right there and then when the customer has an interest then you are losing revenue. As soon as you let the customer walk away without buying the deal will go cold.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:15:18 pm
content: Thank you for mind opening advices, I'm going to make a research all of those fields.

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on September 05, 2015, 11:03:34 pmI walked away from a sale for the same reason. It was only a simple product, should have been low cost, but there was no facility for me to buy it, so I didn't.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:23:54 pm
content: Quote from: Spikee on September 05, 2015, 09:48:56 pmIt's better and cheaper to outsource even small runs. You don't have to invest in that much hardware AND make money while doing other things! The more you outsource the more time you have for things that make more money. Every now and then I do some mechanical stuff for one offs but if it becomes a lot of work I outsource it. Doing everything yourself may seem like a good idea but it isn't. You have to keep a close eye on spending your time in a way it is most benificial in the long run.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 12:17:20 am
content: Quote from: Spikee on September 05, 2015, 09:48:56 pmOf course not, but you have to start somewhere and get a name for your self and customer base. You can do that with just one good product.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 12:45:59 am
content: Yes, IanB is right on.You need to make it easy to buy the product.Luckily that isn't hard. You can create a paypal account and then use their system to generate a webcode snippet that you can slap into any dirt simple html webpage and it shows a paypal buy button.Anyone clicking it is directed to paypal to buy your item using their CC or paypal account.And you get an email with the details they entered for shipping.Of course, a pretty dynamic webpage is better than a static html page with a single buy button.But when you're starting out and building everything yourself keeping it simple helps save time for more important things.(I think paypal also offer a similar 'code snippet' system to add an entire shopping cart system to any webpage. but ive not used it.)Picking the right industry is also key. You need to have some good knowledge in the area, or at least have a business partner that does.Trying to sell something in an industry you don't know much about is very hard. (Even when the product works well and is needed by the industry). If you have a product idea and have no option but selling something in an industry you don't know it's best to team up with someone who does and sell your items through them.Eg, if you had an automotive idea you might try and sell your product through your a local automotive shop. The shop can charge for installation etc. and you get free promotion into the market because word quickly spreads through people in the industry.Don't be surprised if they shoot down your idea as being stupid but always then ask what electronic product *they* think are needed in the industry. People always have ideas for things that they want but have no idea how to build themselves.You also want an industry where there's lots of people with money to impulse buy. Good markets are ones where there's lots of people wanting to buy your product for many different reasons. Maybe they want it for status or because it just sounds fancy or because its got better features than the competition and this matters to them more than actually using your product for it's function. This is where you get the "shut up and take my money" customers