Help with "80 series Thermal imager" by insight vision services  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 11:30:25 am
content: Hi, im new to this forum,I bought this 80 series Thermal imager on ebay.Have no documentation for it and cannot find anything on the web about this model.I have included photos but there is no model/serial numbers on it.I would like to know how to connect it to a monitor/tv to even see if its working.It came witk a power/I/O box that clips on the back connecting through a RS232 block. And a scartto av in, av out and DIN female plug.Any help would be much appreciated so i have a chance to evaluate this imager.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 03:10:27 pm
content: Similar camera using the same technology……https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=insight%20thermal%20camera&tbm=vid&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5You are working with early 1990’s Pyro Electric Vidicon (PEVICON) technology. Useful information on these is rare, as you have found. Search for EEV ARGUS 1 and ISG TALISMAN for cameras using the same technology to produce a thermal image. There are posts on this forum about those cameras and expert advice available from those involved with the production of such PEVICON technology cameras.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/teardown-of-an-isg-talisman-thermal-camera-by-mike/Do not expect too much from this relatively early uncooled thermal imaging technology.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 03:43:01 pm
content: To test camera…..Set controls as follows:Set all variable controls to their mid point except “IR” which is the IR/Visible light image mixer. You have no visible light camera so rotate it fully to IR position.Apply power to interface, switch on camera and listen. You should hear a motor start as the chopper wheel begins to spin. The speed of the chopper wheel will rise and settle at a constant RPM creating a distinctive whirrr from the camera. Look for any signs of life on the video output BNC connector using a monitor that is capable of displaying both PAL and NTSC inputs (the camera is likely NTSC output but could possibly be PAL for the UK market) Set the video output switch to B/W for a monochrome image and “Color” for a colour image output.If a display with graphics is produced on the monitor, make sure any lens IRIS is fully open and place your hand in front of the lens…. any thermal change displayed ? If so, adjust the lens focus to image a warm cup of water positioned approx 2m from camera. Set “Gain” for a decent thermal image. If fitted, a lens Iris may be used to reduce the amount of thermal energy reaching the PEVICON tube.If the camera does not start it’s chopper wheel or does not produce a thermal image or display graphics, your camera is in need of service or repair. That is not a project for the faint hearted on these PEVICON tube based 1990’s era cameras but there are experts in the technology on this forum.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 03:49:55 pm
content: Useful information on PEVICON technology cameras……http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/4428.htmhttp://www.fire-tics.co.uk/A1.htmhttp://www.fire-tics.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=244428 schematics (will likely be similar topology to your Insight 80 camera)http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/datasheets/P4428_TM_B.pdfu

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 03:52:17 pm
content: More useful information from Bill_W………https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/time-travel-eev-p4428-teardown/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 03:54:48 pm
content: Inside the PEVICON technology ARGUS 1 camera….https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/thermal-camera-the-eev-argus-1-(p2238)-under-her-clothes-!/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 04:12:40 pm
content: For info, I almost bought that Insight 80 camera but only because of the Germanium lens that remains useful. I advise against spending much money or time on this camera due to its somewhat elderly and limited imaging technology plus the lack of service information to aid repair/setup. The EEV Argus 1 uses similarly elderly technology but there is far more support available for it if you are trying to repair one. I repair thermal imaging systems as a job up but would not take on a PEVICON based thermal camera repair. This is technology that dates back to the era of the old CCTV cameras that used VIDICON tubes for image creation. I used to work on such technology but youngsters may find such tube technology somewhat baffling until it’s operation and needs are studied and understood. We are very much in the analogue domain for the PEVICON tube ‘front end’ electronics.

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 08:42:53 pm
content: Im in my 6th decade and cut my teeth on valve amps and mechanical reel to teels from the bins behind thetv repairshop near school.I have problems with the digital world, i trained with IBM doing element replacement in the late 80's, when you could see components without a microscope. Thanks for your replies and the depth of your posts that i found today.I'll give this brick a good try, glad to hear the noise will settle to a hum. I wasent happy to leave it on too long as it sounded broke.Thanks.Niall

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 12:46:22 am
content: Quote from: Niall135 on January 27, 2024, 08:42:53 pmVideo rate clicks can be as simple as the target wire hitting the chopper, maybe if the scan coils have gone forwards. Can generate big horizontal banding as it charges the chopper with enough static electricity for the input amplifier to pick up and swamp the tube signals.I would add that I am not sure which tube this camera uses, and as such it may be running quite different voltages and waveforms to a P4428.There were 'hard' and 'soft' vacuum tubes in production, and also the EEV in-house fire cameras were designed down for lower power and so lower tube voltages.P8092 tube = soft = similar to P4428P8093 tube = hard = closer in operation to P4438 Argus1I have a P8092 tube datasheet on the website too:http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/datasheets/P8092_datasheet.pdfFor example that says G4 = 240V, in the fire camera that was 130VBill

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:39:36 pm
content: I had a chance to take a look inside today.I got an old tv from the attic with a scart connector and actually got an image on screen.Took the case off to check for the obvious, the noise was not the chopper . It was a little 5v fan witha dodgy impeller.Looked arround the pcb's and found a 75ohm resistor seperated from the board.On closer inspection it looked cut.I removed the fan otor as it also caused interference. Soldered the resistor and tried again.

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:43:13 pm
content: Image of hand and soldering iron

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:53:23 pm
content: The only thing now is the chopper seems to be out of sync.After a while, about 20 mins, a spiral appears on the left of the screenAnd eventually blocks the image.I have to power off and start again.Now to sort the pots on the control unit, very loose.I have photos of pcb's visable without disassembly, if anyone is interested.Maby a teardown some time later, when i feel confident not to brea it.FYI. It had a NTSC/PAL switch under the covers.

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:54:43 pm
content: Cup of tea to celebrate

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2024, 01:13:22 am
content: indeed.I have now found the brochure and datasheet - with pinouts of something - I think that 25 way plug. Files to follow once scannedAbout the first thing I did at EEV was to build an add-on box for false colour and profile display. We did not do much by way of industrial cameras, but it looked nice on the sales stand and sold a few alongside the P4430 large lens cameras

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 12:24:40 am
content: Thanks bill that would be great. N

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 07:45:23 pm
content: Attached the instruction manual and accessories guide for the Series 80 camera.It has the pinout for the 25 way and some other connectors on the plugon modules listedI have also scanned two brochures, too big for here, but all added to the 'other cameras' page on fire-ticshttp://www.fire-tics.co.uk/others.htmBill

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 11:23:36 pm
content: Bill, thats fantastic. Thanks for taking the time. I've a bit of reading up to do before i open her up again. Ive downloaded the manual but the link to the brochures seems to be broken at the mo. I'll try again tomorrow. Once again thanks for the help I've gone from no info to 100% in a week.Ta. N

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2024, 06:24:01 pm
content: Glad to help Niall.Links seem OK from here, might be you need to look at the site using https:https://www.fire-tics.co.uk/others.htmAs I do not have any sales / cards etc on the site it can be accessed either way, but a lot of browsers throw a fit at unencrypted connections these daysregardsBill

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2024, 01:26:46 am
content: Bill, how do i identify the tube, there are no markings on tube or focus sheild.

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2024, 01:31:56 am
content: Photo of plate in tube

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2024, 10:54:31 am
content: Quote from: Niall135 on February 12, 2024, 01:31:56 amThat is the serial number. The type is stamped externally in white but is well inside the scannong coil assembly.Datasheet for the P8093 - the standard hard vacuum tube for external saleshttp://www.fire-tics.co.uk/datasheets/P8093_datasheet.pdf

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:10:25 pm
content: Having sat down to fine tune the camera voltages and settings as best i could given the lack of documentation. Low and behold the mains power adapter gave up the ghost. Hopefully ill be able to power it through the battery pack port using my bench supply, just waitng for a Canon 3 pin plug to arrive in the post as i dont fancy jerryrigging it at the mo.In the mean time i thought id photo the cards i more detail.

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:12:08 pm
content: More photos.

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:14:56 pm
content: And more

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:17:02 pm
content: And more

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:18:56 pm
content: And more

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:33:08 pm
content: More

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:36:04 pm
content: More

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 01:40:11 pm
content: More

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 02:24:11 pm
content: Any help on the naming of the RV pots. Listed below.Tube top Cam/HapHorizVertPed levelMidHf80s/Cam/Fppc8Dc level DAMin flickerA/O V upperV lowerLine stField stDynamic gainShading80s/Cam vppc6SfrGfrCcl inCcl sizeSlrGlrGfpSfrSlfG1Greyscale con rGreyscale brightIr peak white clipSyncProfile withProfile blackProfile whiteProfile levelVisual setupVisual syncEdge enhanceBlk levelPan black levelGain dist 733Max gain 2nd 733Min gain 2nd 733-7v 2nd 733 level+6 2nd 73380s/ Cam HT pc6Pan positionChop testFlyback withIr scan delayV shiftV lineField ampH shiftN 11 HH ampChopper zero pulseFocusGenlockSoft auto beamHard auto beamHard manual beamS pedPolling beamG 3G3 flybackG4 collapse beamColuriserPassthrough to focusSet + 10Ir digts AmpSet lowSet highLum DcSand sizeSand posBurst posBurst sizeNaming is so different to any other tic schematics ive seen.And each board will have pots numbered from RV1 up.....

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 02:27:16 pm
content: Fraser, the lense is not in great nic.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 02:53:40 pm
content: That is classic AR coating peel (de-lamination) on the lens. I see it a lot on older thermal cameras that have been stored somewhere damp. The peeling is not reparable but you may not notice much degradation in the image as this is a relatively non demanding imaging system.Fraser

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 05:51:43 pm
content: Should i leave it as is or flake it off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 06:06:24 pm
content: Personally I wipe away the flakes to avoid them contaminating the interior of the camera later. As they are no longer attached to the Germanium surface they offer no benefit in terms of transmission. They are on the exit face of the lens so you will likely not see any optical issues, but do remember that there are hidden AR coated lens faces within the lens and these may be in similarly poor conditionFraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2024, 01:40:45 pm
content: Quote from: Niall135 on February 15, 2024, 05:51:43 pmRemove yes, but treat with some caution, a lens that old it might be Thorium !Definitely a wash hands afterwards etcBill

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2024, 02:17:14 pm
content: 70+ - ouch I thought my 30-odd was enough and I had a CRT monitor to deal with.However nice to see them named and fairly obvious what is what in most cases.Recognise a lot of the IC's as well, not surprising I guess. Should mean the P4428 circuit and setup may be a reasonable guideMy best guesses in [........]BillQuote from: Niall135 on February 15, 2024, 02:24:11 pm

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2024, 11:57:13 am
content: Thank you Fraser and Bill for all the help and advice on this series 80, but i have had no luck recomissioning the power supply.The 12 battery input bypassing the 240v transforer did not help as the output voltages were still missing.Replaced 2 suspect mosfets to no avail, i think power distribution pcb with the focus pots etc has succumbed to age (i know what that feels like).I should have taken Frasers sage advice ad not spent so much time and effort on it.But all is not lost. I have TIC fever now and got my wife to buy me a DH-BF5421-T for my birthday. It came with a blackbody and 2 tripods.My plan is to install the microbolometer in the series 80 body where i can utilise the large 35mm f.07 lens and the focusing servo.So far so good as im getting great images in preliminary tests. I just have to fabricate a carriage to get the sensor centralised. Ill post on this seperatly.But this means all the boards from the series 80 are available for spares along with the pevicon tube. First refusal to Fraser and Bill. DM me if they are of interest.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2024, 04:42:53 pm
content: Hi Niall135,Sorry to hear that the camera resisted your attempts to revive it.I bought a BF5421 a while ago. Nice camera with a 400 x 300 pixel VOX FPAWith regard to parts of the Series 80 camera that would be useful to me, the Pevicon tube and it’s associated deflection yoke might help me revive a French Sofretec Thermocam that I have so would be much appreciatedAll the best with your Series 80 conversion projectFraser

author: Niall135
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2024, 07:51:17 pm
content: Is this all you need. If so dm your address and I'll pop it in the post.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2024, 10:12:37 pm
content: That’s is exactly what I needI will send you a personal message with my detailsFraser