HP 8510C owners - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: veedub565
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 08:31:05 pm
content: I'm starting to build a 8510C network analyser system, I've already got some parts85101C Display unit (option 010 and 011)8530A IF Detector / Receiver8341B SweeperOriginally it was an antenna test setup, but as I understood it, I thought option 011 allowed 8530A to run both VNA and Antenna test firmware ( though not both at the same time). Looking at the myriad of options, upgrades, and datasheets I'm not so sure now. The display unit has option 011, but should it be on the Receiver unit? but the receiver hardware is basically the same, and the firmware lives in the display unitOption 85395C upgrades an 8510C to 8530A, option 111 deletes network analyser capability.Mine is a true 8530A to begin with though, so presumably never had network analyser function. As far as I know the hardware is basically the same, 8530A is just an upgraded 85102 with some extra bits. I would guess option 111 removes the 8510C PAL chip (and adds the 8530A one). Mine most likely only has the PAL chip for an 8530A, and I'd need a different one if I wanted to run 8510C firmware and use it as a VNAI can probably get a PAL chip for an 8510C from a scrapper, I don't think they are serial coded.Just wanted a sanity check here.... my 8530A only has a PAL chip for 8530A, and a PAL chip for option 010 time domain. I can add a 3rd PAL chip from a scrap 8510C, load the 8510C firmware, and use it as a VNA. All sound sensible ?or... my 8530A already has both 8530 and 8510 PAL chips because it's got option 011Oh and the 8341B, yeah not ideal, these systems seem designed for the 8360 series, but they're out of budget. 8341B should work ok though, even up to v7.XX (with feature limitations)

author: rplabs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 02:24:30 pm
content: For the PAL chips you need to open the Display unit and check the board on the right side inline with the floppy disk.

author: veedub565
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 05:58:24 pm
content: Thanks, I haven't actually picked the unit up yet so i will check when once I've collected it. Looking through all the manuals and datasheets I did noticethere are security IC’s fitted to the security board to enable different options & firmware, there are 4 sockets1. 8510C Firmware (opt 011 in an 8530A system)2. Time Domain (opt 010 all systems)3. 8530A Firmware (opt??? in an 8510C system)4. BlankThe following upgrade kits are available:• 85395A – Converts 8510A (SN prefix lower than 03000) to an 8530A with 8510C capability. Option 111 deletes 8510C operation• 85395B – Converts 8510A (sn prefix greater than 03000) or any 8510B to an 8530A with 8510C capability. Option 111 deletes 8510C operation• 85396A – Adds 8510C operation to an 8530A• 85012D – Adds time domain to an 8530A• 85012C – Adds time domain to an 8510C (or any A/B that has been upgraded to a C)So it looks like I might be ok

author: jonsikul
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 09:01:14 pm
content: I seem to be on a similar path as you were at a little over a year ago with putting together a 8510C system with 8341B source.What are the devices in your setup now?Did you ever get the right PAL chips?Does the entire system work now?I am really interested in any experience you gained on your way as I do not have fully functioning system as of yet.I only have the PAL allowing for v.7.xx at the moment but I am interested in adding a 8530 and time domain functionality later on when I find them.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 09:34:52 pm
content: its loud, I still need to replace batteries, and it acts up if you have bad cablesits a lot of work to put this together. just don't freak out that its broken, I had some cables 'go off' on me (must have missed a strand in the shield that got into the conductor to short it out). For some reason this can cause the machine to freeze up and whatnot. All I can say is that the digital part of the machine might halt if you have bad analog coaxial stuff, maybe for EMC reasons or something.... common sense makes you think that this should not happen, but it does. Like I had a bad sweep cable or some shit cause the machine to literarly freeze when it sagged enough to cause a short or whatever inside. Like freeze the screen on a sweepit made me think the digital boxes are bad. but when I replaced that particular cable it was fineyou would think it would just display BS on the screen but run fine... instead it can freeze out user input and totally crash! I guess when you have 4 boxes linked with tons of cables and RF it starts getting spookymake this machine so you can get behind it... it can be temperamental. I seem to have to fight a little war once in a while to get it to run... but I learned more since then, I recommend for sure to get the proper crimp tools and spend the extra time to figure out how to get the coaxial cables perfect for this one (don't use the ones that you screw together on the shield, get crimp). it can really make you feel like your losing your shit when it acts up lolI suspect these things have trolled ALOT of people that don't think that the god damn analog cables are making the digital side act up !I would say that its not a super economical machine, it will take you some money, if you think its the cheap skate approach.. no way. have spare money before buying this because you can end up on shit creek if you think it will let you run cheap. its an advanced big boy toyI definitely would not recommend this for a introduction to RF electronics if you don't already have a SA, signal generator, and experience with mainframe shit

author: veedub565
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 06:58:43 pm
content: Quote from: jonsikul on July 18, 2024, 09:01:14 pmQuite a bit has changed in my setup from last year. in terms of individual parts I now have ....3x 85101C Display unit (one is a spares unit, one only has the 8510C & option 010 PAL chip, and one has got all the PAL chips)2x 8510C Receiver unit1x 8530C Receiver unit1x 8515A Test Set2x 8514A Test Set1x 8511A Test Set1x 8341B sweeper1x 85309A LO/IF Distribution unit2x RF Interconnect cable (genuine HP)2x Data cables (one HP one generic)1x Set of 40GHz Rosenberger test port cablesSo that breaks down into (almost) two systemsA basic 8510C VNA system85101C8510C8515A/8514A8341BAnd an 8530 antenna range system85101C8530C8511A8341BObviously the 8341B is shared between the two systems at this point, and I haven't found a use for the 85309A yet as it requires a few extra bits like couplers and mixers. I updated the firmware of my 8341B from '88 to '92 which apparently improves some bugs and glitches. And all my BNC cables are genuine HP too. Getting the various boxes together is the cheap and easy part (believe it or not). It's all pretty useless without a proper cal kit with verified values loaded into the system. And you need decent phase stable RF cables too, ideally test port cables. Neither of these things are cheap.v7.xx is the latest firmware for the 8510 VNA with a CRT screen, higher than that and you need an 85101C with an LCD screen. Nothing to do with the PAL chip.The 8530 latest version firmware is lower, 3.xx or something ? and this is just for antenna range testing.I can't remember all the configurations for the PAL chips. It's documented somewhere though. I think all of them with run v7.xx VNA firmware using the one PAL chip that they all come with. The extra PAL chips are for Time Domain and the 8530 Antenna Range firmware. I think! you'll have to check that though, it's been a while.I replaced some of the fans, notably in the 8341B and it all runs pretty quiet, certainly much quieter than the HP3335A I've got.I've also got an 8753C with the 6GHz option. And to be honest I use that much more than than the 8510C.It technically probably isn't as good, but it's a lot quicker and easier to setup and use. Not to mention takes up less space.

author: jonsikul
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 01:41:51 pm
content: I actually find it neither cheap nor easy to get hold of the different boxes as you mention, especially in Europe like where you are located. But I guess that depends on what you find cheap and if your are comparing a 1000$ 8515A to a 4000$ cal kit. Are you looking at places other than the bay?Have you also gotten hold of a mechanical calibration kit up to the 20 GHz that the 8341B will take you?Do you use the antenna range system at all? If so, is it outdoor or how do you do it? I find it interesting to have the antenna measurement capabilities included in the 8510 and that one can just switch between the two. I, myself definitely don't have any space indoors, but outdoors.... maybe.Have you done any comparison of the 8510C receiver unit and a 8530A receiver unit in a VNA setup? As I understand it, there is some IF bandwidth differences between the two but when I read in the official documentation on how to upgrade a 8530 to a 8510 e.g. they don't deal with the receiver part, only add the PAL chip and Software on a floppy, as if they are completely interchangeable in that regards.I also have a 8341B and it's loud as fuck, what kind of fan did you find as a replacement?