New Lithium tech- 4x the storage - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 04:19:02 pm
content: https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/the-smarter-grid/startup-aims-to-tackle-grid-storage-problem-with-serverracksized-batteryThey claim 4x the energy storage capacity per volume, while mitigating some major drawbacks of traditional lithium ion batteries (fires)- and all at half the cost. It can efficiently manufactured at any size all the way up to grid storage. How much of this is marketing wank/hype and how much of it could be true? It just sounds too good to be true.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 04:27:51 pm
content: Is it dodgy technology?https://xnrgi.com/

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 04:48:00 pm
content: Wow, those graphs are sketchy. On one graph "electrode potential" (wtfever that is supposed to mean) vs "capacity" (with no units or scale). In graph 2, safety (showing them as the safest), vs "energy density". But on that graph they have the lowest energy density of the whole lot. That doesn't mash at all. Although it does make sense that the batteries with the lowest power density would be the safest... since they have the lowest stored energy!Then, of course, the big graph that plots energy density (with them at the top) vs... literally nothing on the x axis. It's just a bunch of meaningless dots scattered around.So these batteries have both the highest energy density (for improved storage!), and lowest energy density (for improved safety!)...At the bottom in small, blurry print it says data is dated 2012. So this magic material has been around since 2012 and nobody has been interested until now. I wonder why?Now I want to look at thatscientificpaper "SANYO March 2011". They reference it but don't give a source that I can find. How convenient...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 05:40:05 pm
content: They say the US DoE, Intel and other prestigious institutions have invested in this technology, for a total of about $80M, but it's unclear exactly when and how."XNRGI’s 15 patented technologies and 12 pending patents, were developed over a 15-year period ". Really?And this with just 2 employees?https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/NPWZ:US

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 05:44:10 pm
content: One of their latest patents:https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180366768A1

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 06:41:00 pm
content: Many new LithiumIon improvements are great in the laboratory but fail big time in mass production where they can not stabilize the production process or just fail pricewise.I am tired of all the little laboratory start ups that hit the news just because they desperately need big investments to make it till the end of the year.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 06:57:39 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 21, 2019, 06:41:00 pmAgreed. These kind of press releases are produced by the hundreds every day of the year. Worse than self filling water bottles.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 08:34:27 pm
content: Silicon anodes seem to be a thing:http://www.uni-kiel.de/pressemeldungen/index.php?pmid=2018-114-siliziumakku&lang=en

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 10:39:02 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 21, 2019, 05:40:05 pmThis is a standard industry and government gamble on new potential technologies. This regularly happens in mass, usually without such write-ups unless the tech is beyond their reach and they are just looking to generate more capital to appear to try more and line their pockets with salary in the mean time barely achieving slightly better than existing tech. It's usually also a tax write-off for the companies who invest. Only a minuscule portion of a percent of such en-devours ever reach mass market functionality or potential.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 10:50:59 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 21, 2019, 10:39:02 pmYes, that's what I figured.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 12:00:09 am
content: If they can show an absolute lower cost per kWh of storage, maybe they have something. If there's a price premium that they try to rationalize as "lower cost" by touting longer life, improved safety, la la la, then they'll probably go the way of Solyndra as overall prices and improvements in other tech passes them by. I'd guess they'll have a pretty tough time in the fairly mature and cutthroat battery market.It would be nice to see improved safety. Even though there is better tech than LiPo in terms of safety, the cost and energy density seemingly outweigh the hazards.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 12:09:23 am
content: I see dozens of papers come out of PHDs at various Unis each year. The kids need to "research" some "new" discovery / idea / technology etc etc to get their papers. Sometimes, some newspaper / business / startup that's looking for some headlines, picks one up and runs with it - as others say, often to make a few bucks.Sometimes- they even go into pilot production toprovethey're serious - rarely goes any further - there's always a reason why it didn't work out.How many 100s Unis out there doing the same.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 12:53:25 am
content: This sort of thing comes up all the time. Let me know when I can buy a product off the shelf, otherwise it's just more claims.