EEVblog #1095 #1096 - ANENG Q1 Multimeter  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 10:24:03 pm
content: A review and teardown of the new low cost $38 ANENG Q1 MultimeterHow dos it compare with the $25 AN8008?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 10:53:03 pm
content: I wonder if the relay behaves like the Gossen. If it changes stated from an external source does the meter let you know? The Gossen does not have feedback to detect it so in the voltage mode, if it changes you have no idea. The meter could have several hundred volts across it and you would have no idea. A really poor design IMO. Maybe this cheap meter does something right.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 11:06:24 pm
content: The Ultra changing states with a hanger..https://youtu.be/COuCsWDoI9E?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBTCU8Mq_i9jidT024A0dV6

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 11:09:57 pm
content: Of course that POS couldn't even hang with the cheap meters in the chamber. Damn these marketing people.....https://youtu.be/wYuzFtoHMqg?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBTCU8Mq_i9jidT024A0dV6&t=837

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 01:04:03 am
content: The 4K teardown looks great. Definitely much better than upscaling 1080p. (To be fair, the upscaling shader code is tuned for upscaling images of models, not PCBs!)As for the meter, I have had plenty of problems with the rotary switch on meters used in the field. A bit of dust gets inside and the switch becomes intermittent until the meter is disassembled and cleaned. A pushbutton control or even a slide/rocker switch can be more robust with less to go wrong. Or even a dedicated low voltage socket like what the Mooshimeter has.The display is a nice idea with a big flaw. I have seen a LCD that was black on white with ambient light but white on black with backlight. Any reason they couldn't have used that?Aside from the display, if they add power measurement and Bluetooth, it can very well become a contender for top pick of the budget meters.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 03:50:02 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 13, 2018, 10:53:03 pmNo, the relay is not mu metal shielded.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 04:10:42 am
content: I wonder if this meter will still work properly when powered at 3.6 volt to simulate using lithium batteries, I remember the Brymen BM235 didn't like the higher voltage lithium batteries and perhaps these are similar, certainly another thing to test.

author: Barny
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 07:11:40 am
content: Is this Meter the first legit use for Batteriser?

author: woox2k
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 09:06:26 am
content: Quote from: Barny on June 14, 2018, 07:11:40 amCame here to say this too. Batteroo sponsored this meter perhaps?Like this is the perfect example where batterizer would be actually useful.

author: McBryce
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 09:23:10 am
content: @Dave: You zoomed right in on the voltage reference and still didn't notice/comment on how ridiculously bad the soldering was on that part?McBryce.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 09:34:39 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 13, 2018, 10:53:03 pmIs it as dangerous as the Gossen?a) The ANENG seems to reset the relay state more often, andb) The ANENG relay doesn't have any effect on the main voltage ranges, ie. It's not going to read 23V instead of 230V (or whatever it was the Gossen read when the relay was out of sync).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 09:35:47 am
content: For those who missed it, there's already been some discussion of these videos here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-aneng-q1-9999-counts/msg1605820/#msg1605820

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 10:33:20 am
content: Dave you can fix that thingy: flip the polarizer and disconnect the backlight led.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 10:34:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 14, 2018, 03:50:02 amI ended up using Netic on the Ultra. Of course, the Gossen was certified to be safe. In this case, I think the standards are lacking.Quote from: Fungus on June 14, 2018, 09:34:39 amThere you are, reading your 600V 100Amp power supply... all is well.. The meter comes too close to the magnetic hanger. What's this 600V CAT III marked meter do? It's not like you rotated a switch. This meter may give you some sort of visual that the relay changed state, making it safer.The free Harbor Freight meters are now derated to 250V. At least they were smart enough not to share the current input with the voltage input this time. Still, it does need to handle 1000V plus margins across the open contacts. Easy enough to try.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 11:09:03 am
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 14, 2018, 10:33:20 amNope, it's all embedded.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 11:11:21 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 14, 2018, 09:34:39 amThere is basically no effect on electrical safety of the meter itself under normal use.The lack of correct display would be another issue.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 11:13:56 am
content: Quote from: McBryce on June 14, 2018, 09:23:10 amFor probably the 10th time now I've had to comment on this:This is common for hand soldered through hole parts, the solder didn't flow through from the bottom. It's not generally a problem, just inconsistency in the hand soldering. The bottom was soldered fine.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 11:17:08 am
content: I can send you some good quality adhesive polarizing film if you have none. Can't you peel off the one on the display?

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 11:21:23 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 14, 2018, 04:10:42 amPut a lipo pack in, and perhaps a Qi charge coil (likely easier than any other safe option) and you might actually have a really nice combo. Although that said, the only meter I've had with rechargeables was one of the Agilent ones where they tried to use a rechargeable 9v NIMH, it was always dead when I wanted it, even after only a week or two sitting unused after charging so I swapped in a primary cell.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 05:20:41 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 14, 2018, 04:10:42 amA one cell lithium is actually 4.2V at full charge, might be too much if it runs a 3.3V microcontroller directly from the batteries. LiFePO4 would be near perfect with a voltage range that pretty much exactly coincides with that of 3.3V logic.Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 14, 2018, 10:33:20 amI remember doing that to impress my friends in middle school...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 05:39:49 pm
content: Seriously, if your meter uses 16mA, just place a boost converter on the input. I like using Eneloops, and hate 9V batteries. But this one is just stupid, it wouldn't even turn on with those.The VA display could mean Vertical Aligment.But I still think the UT210e is a better second meter.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 06:02:13 pm
content: Do you have any Batteroos with contacts still attached to them? How about a real-life test?Maybe two wrongscanmake a right?

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 07:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: McBryce on June 14, 2018, 09:23:10 amSush... He is still in denial that he needs glasses.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 07:17:41 pm
content: Mod the meter by adding a Joule thief?

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 10:22:26 pm
content: You called the fuses inside the meter HRC. They look like regular ceramic body fuses to me, not likely to survive a couple of kA fault currents through them. Do they advertise them as HRC?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 09:54:39 am
content: Quote from: Dave on June 14, 2018, 10:22:26 pm"High" is a relative term but I thought all ceramic fuses were "HRC" type.(otherwise they'd use glass, which is cheaper)Edit: Make that "most". You'd have to be a total cheapskate not to put some sand in them but it has been known to happen. The point is that they don't need to be fluke-size to be HRC, ceramic fuses with sand in themcanbe small.Before replying, think: This guy might point at your puny "couple of kA" fuses and laugh...(If you thinkthat'sbig, you should see his multimeter!)Edit: There's a video of him blowing it. It's only a 35A fuse.How does a fuse like that make sense? Surely you'd want bolts to attach a fuse that big, not a spring clip fuse holder.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 10:05:14 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 14, 2018, 06:02:13 pmLol, yes, funnily enough this is the perfect target for a batterizer.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 11:38:12 am
content: The ICL8069 reference shows as discontinued in many websites. Where do they source them from? I’ve seen them selling as lots on ebay too....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 11:44:33 am
content: Quote from: MasterTech on June 15, 2018, 11:38:12 amI'm sure they still make clones in China.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 11:46:24 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 15, 2018, 09:54:39 amAs I have mentioned to you before, they very well could be ceramic body non-HRC fuse. Dave would have had to take one apart to know for sure if they were at least filled.Cracking open a ceramic fusehttps://youtu.be/TSGLA9heboY?t=292Breaking the ceramic with a small transienthttps://youtu.be/fG61v8UgzA8?t=386

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 01:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on June 14, 2018, 07:05:07 pmWelcome to the fifties Mr. Jones.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 01:34:54 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 15, 2018, 11:46:24 amI remember that.I'd insert something like "mass produced 6x25 HRC fuses areverycommon, there's really no need to be so cheap as to not put sand in them in a $40 meter" but I know you too well for that.Quote from: joeqsmith on June 15, 2018, 11:46:24 amIt's the only way to be 100% sure.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 04:42:50 pm
content: For the fuses and other choices, I would assume its to maximize their profits.What do a few drops of gasoline do the screen? Melt like the other ANENGs?

author: PeterL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 09:19:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 14, 2018, 11:13:56 amWell I guess there are two ways to look at this. Electrically it's fine the way it is. But I was taught that IEC standards dictate that on a metallized through hole solder joint the solder has to be visible on both sides of the PCB. I can try to look it up next week.And all-though I'm no expert at this, I can imagine that a joint like this will give extra stress on the thin metallisation of the hole due to heat and vibration. And it certainly helps against cracked solder joints to have the solder all the way through.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 02:08:20 am
content: Adding insult to injury for this meter, the "bargraph" only seems to have 20 segments, with 5 stripes/segment, but it is hard to know for sure from Dave's video, by lack of a suitable input signal.I really do like the push button idea, but pushing a button 5x to rotate between functions makes it a lot less appealing.The always on backlight, especially in combination with the fading display as soon as the batteries start to loose some charge make this meter a complete lemon.It might be usable if the polarizer can be easily reversed and the backlight disabled, but why bother?I do like the AN8009 though, very similar to the AN8008, but with N.C.V instead of the pulse output and it has temperature measurement (only 1deg. Celcius resolution, even though this meter can has a 1uV resolution and has plenty of room for at least an extra digit for temperature. (K thermocouple = 41mV/C.)).The gap in the Current ranges can be solved relatively easy by using a 1 Ohm external shunt, which fits nicely with the 1uV resolutionFor Electronics use I actually prefer the external shunt, because you can just leave it in the circuit and use the multimeter for other measurements without interrupting the Current.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 09:03:22 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on June 16, 2018, 02:08:20 amYep. I'm disappointed Dave didn't connect a potentiometer to it and give it a workout.I guess it doesn't matter though, there's plenty of other reasons not to buy one.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 08:19:47 pm
content: So we are gonna really milk the whole "NOW IN 4K FOUR KAY FOUR KAY!!!!" thing are we!?

author: yo55
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 06:05:47 pm
content: Hi everyone,Electronics newbie here. At 14:00https://youtu.be/HmkIPkXpg9U?t=840, the meter reads 0.707V for 1Vrms/3khz on the generator but reads 1V at 1 khz. What am I missing about that TRUE-rms jazz ? Cheers

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 06:28:04 pm
content: Quote from: yo55 on June 13, 2020, 06:05:47 pmMultimeters have limited bandwidth, just like oscilloscopes.The bandwidth figure is the point where it reads 0.707 volts (-3dB), eg. A "100Mhz" oscilloscope will read 0.707 volts if you feed it a 100Mhz sine wave (many will go alittlebit higher than their quoted number in practice).If you need a multimeter that measures higher frequencies then you look for that number in the specification. eg. The Brymen 869s claims 100kHz bandwidth:https://brymen.eu/shop/bm869s/If a multimeter doesn't publish this number then you can assume it's only good for 1kHz or less and you. Some will only be TRMS at mains AC frequencies.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 09:51:08 pm
content: The voltage of the signal generator is the amplitude (or peak) and themultimeter measures the RMS voltage. To find the RMS value of a sinewave you have to divide by the square root of two:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_squareEdit: not sure if the bandwidth for a multimeter is defined as -3dB,e.g. this is the specification for a Fluke 101:AC Volts: 40 Hz to 500 Hz, 1.0 % + 3

author: yo55
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 10:58:30 am
content: Thanks for your answers guys. I didn't think it was a bandwith issue. I'll keep an eye out for this particular spec for my next meter.I just bought the KUMAN WH5000A wich is supposed to go up to 400Hz for AC measurement. It isn't the best designed meter ever but I am still amazed you can get all those functionalities for that price (28 € here in France through amazon). That wouldn't have happened 20 years ago. Cheers.