Is PCB-design engineer freelancer a viable career path? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: siyar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 09:16:57 am
content: Hi,I have been looking for a job for 1 year now as an electronics enigneer but couldnt find one.I was consindering specialising in PCB-desing by doing a bunch of projects at home and watching tutorials. Then after i gained som skills/experience i would try to get some jobs on upwork or something similar.Is this doable and what can i expect as an hourly rate or monthly salery?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 10:24:47 am
content: Quote from: siyar on March 20, 2025, 09:16:57 amWhat are other PCB designers charging on UpWork?Usually those sites are race to the bottom, with people from less than affluent countries willing to take on minimum wage jobs.

author: ahsrabrifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 10:25:05 am
content: PCB designing Engineers can work as freelancers and have permanent jobs too. Both options are available.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 10:34:32 am
content: When doing freelance you often have to be more of a jack of all trades rather than specializing in one specific thing.People who just need someone to layout a PCB will likely be working with a bigger budget and have a team of people already. But most of the jobs for freelance is more of a "turn key solution" that people look for. They have an idea for something they want to make, but don't have the skills to do it, so they hire you to fill in all of that skillgap and go from idea to finished product.

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 11:01:47 am
content: Quote from: siyar on March 20, 2025, 09:16:57 amStop looking for a job.Get a soldering station, table and microscope. Start doing electronics repair.Get a youtube channel going.Here is your neighbor doing this job at home. Do the same thing.https://www.youtube.com/@electronicsrepairschoolHere is a more successful guyhttps://www.youtube.com/@NorthridgeFixHe bought a house for 1.8 million dollars.Think of this job as 1000 per day, if you get it going. 150 or more per repair.No matter the job, if you work for a company, you won't get paid more than $50 an hour, frankly that's a dream. $25 an hour is more realistic, and you have to go find something like that. Plus you're disposable. If you work for yourself the sealing is just what you make and your location.I moved from Russia to United States to go really high. In Russia sealing was 50k rubles back in 2014, that's about 800 - 900 bucks per day, and only during the summer vacation season.

author: Andree Henkel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 11:10:57 am
content: You live in Denmark? (Banner in profile)So you need to make income to be able to live there.As Dave pointed out you probably won´t make that with purely remote work contracts via net sites.You would need to contract with companies close enough to your living, that you can meet there, direct face to face talk about requirements, maybe doing lab work there.So best no more than one hour one way commute, maybe 2 hours, if meetings / lab work is rare.Depending on your point of living the commute may also be to germany or sweden.So you could expect to make a lively hood in denmark.What is your qualification?I myself would hesitate to freelance, but maybe you got character for it.Maybe better try to start employed at a "engineering services" company, that is engineering specialized temporary services companies. Thus they would organice the contracts and you get to work for different costumers too.

author: Kharn_the_Betrayer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 03:17:22 pm
content: I personally struggle to see the market for freelance PCB design. In my (albeit slightly limited) professional experience, PCB design is already a skill most professional electrical and electronics engineers will have, and when their company needs a PCB designed they can simply open up Eagle (RIP) or whatever other software they use and handle it internally. I'd imagine this also makes things easier on the legal/intellectual property end, assuming your country's relevant laws are at all similar to mine, since said employees will already have relinquished their rights to the design through their onboarding paperwork; not to mention any NDAs they might want you to sign.You might have better luck with hobbyists, but then you aren't able to charge as much for your services, and might not earn enough to make freelance PCB design a full career.Quote from: u666sa on March 20, 2025, 11:01:47 amThis is a highly risky path. Content creation is as much about marketing as it is about the actual subject of your content. There's also a much higher cost of entry; you need cameras, you need microphones, you need lighting, you need a computer that can handle video editing and maybe even a subscription to some video editing software, as well as the knowledge to use all of it. If a video doesn't look or sound good, most people won't watch it.All of this is not to say you shouldn't try. I understand the frustration of trying to find a job as a new engineerand at the absolute very least this could give you valuable experience should you ever decide to try and find professional work in the future. But it will be difficult and probably won't work long-term.

author: Andree Henkel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 03:46:13 pm
content: My experience with company´s where I work / worked as employee regarding freelancers / outsorcing is basically:There are economics ups and downs everywhere. Changing like the tides.During boom there are open job positions, and on urgent projects can be freelancing contracts / outsourcing.At my previous employer there has been one engineering freelancer, that only worked for them. Permanently. He was my diploma advisor at university, and at that time already worked partly for them, I worked there 15 Years, and he still was there as freelancer when I left.During that time 2 electronics engineers, that started beeing employed by engineering service firm got permanently jobs at that company.There has been times where budget for freelancers was available and times where it was not.But at downturns outsourcing / freelancing / employees in probation is likely the first to be kicked out, core staff with permanent contracts is kept.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 04:26:42 pm
content: In my last full time job, we had PCBs designed for us by an outside design bureau.The relationship worked well. They had expertise, licences for the full-on version of Allegro (a hugely expensive CAD package that we couldn't possibly have justified, but did occasionally need access to), and of course, we only had to pay them for their time when we actually had a new PCB in development. We didn't have enough work to keep a PCB design engineer on staff full time, so it made sense to hire them on an ad-hoc basis.The thing to bear in mind, though, is that we needed to hire someone with a great deal of experience and expertise. We provided mechanical data and information on what the critical parts of the design were, but they followed good design practice and delivered a high quality, error free, professional level result every single time, without the need to be micro-managed or supervised.That's right at the opposite end of the spectrum from someone who has never worked in a professional environment at all, and I'm afraid I don't think it's a good idea at all to try and run your own PCB design business without that level of experience.Remember, there are two kinds of people who work for themselves:- those who don't need a job working for someone else, and- those who can't get a job working for someone else.Literally nobody wants to hire the latter.I'm on the other end of the phone line now; just over 10 years ago I packed in my full time job and started my own design business. Other companies hire me by the hour to design schematics, PCBs, write software and so on, and it's great. I really enjoy it - business has been great, I get to pick and choose who I work for, and it's been a really educational experience as well as a lucrative one. But make no mistake, it'smuchharder to have to do 100% of a job yourself, than it is to do 90% and get help with the rest. The job needs a great deal of experience and confidence to do it well.By all means, set up your own business and work for yourself at some point in your career - it's great, and nobody I know who's done it would go back and change their minds. But don't try to do it first, without a really solid base of experience working in a professional environment. It won't end well, for your or for your customers.

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 09:47:03 pm
content: Are you ready to take on multi-layer boards with blind vias and so forth? Are you ready to have the board ready to ship the day before they even tell you what they want designed? Are you ready to fight the financial risk when they blame their mistake on your design? Do you understand trace impedance control for high speed digital signals? You probably need a lot of experience at a contract manufacturer working all the facets before you should even consider having enough talent to freelance. We work in real time with our contract manufacturers for things like physical stack up, connector type and placement, controlling thermal runaway of high heat generating devices. Often we use a design house for the production of the first few samples and then go elsewhere to have the next 10,000 or more produced. We have also dropped lawyers on companies with sky high promises of quality and delivery time that were never met.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 01:30:53 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 20, 2025, 04:26:42 pmI do this too and I also really enjoy it. It is very fulfilling when they are stuck on something and I help them solve it. I struggle though with finding new clients.I enjoy some gaps between projects so I can work on my own electronics or home renos but I also get stressed when I'm not earning income.My last 10 years has been mostly with 2 tiny startups. I think it would have been better to work in larger companies so I could have done more networking.My contracts have come from previous employers and networking meetups.How do you find clients?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 02:28:05 am
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 21, 2025, 01:30:53 amThat's how the majority of engineering small businesses and consultancies start.You don't just decide "I'm going to start an engineering consultancy" and start advertising your services. Almost 100% failure rate guaranteed.You start by working for a company as a day job to pay the bill, and then you have a midnight engineering side gig, and once that takes off, then you quit the day job and work on the consultancy, often getting work from your previous employer or related company you've dealt with.At my first job one of our field repair techs realised that he was the only one who was going out and repairing the companies gear at a big clients site who had a repair contract with the company.He found out the client was paying $150k/year for the repair contract, so he just asked them, I'll quit my job and start a repair business, and I'll service it for half the price ($75k/year was lot in the late 80's), we both win. He got the gig and quit his job to start his repair business working only a handful of days a month for more pay.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 03:07:54 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2025, 02:28:05 amDid his old employer get upset? All my employers and clients have me sign contracts that say I won't do this for x years. Usually a couple years.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 03:25:54 am
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 21, 2025, 03:07:54 amThey weren't happy, but nothing they could do. No such contract terms back then, especially with a smallish company.There might have been clauses of some sort, but nothing specific about going to start your own repair pty ltd company and then, by sheer coincidence the clients repair contract is up for renewal and they are legally free to decide to shop around...

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 03:37:28 am
content: Any advice for someone who has mostly worked in tiny startups? I've been applying at larger companies lately and planning to travel to bigger cities for networking events.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 04:20:49 am
content: Quote from: u666sa on March 20, 2025, 11:01:47 amDid you really just recommend this guy should try to become an electronics repair influencer?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 07:16:24 am
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 21, 2025, 03:37:28 amIt can be country specific, but generally big companies are looking for people that stand a better chance of sticking around, ones who won't get bored and leave.e.g. if you are married and have kids and a mortgage and that kinda stuff that anchors you to a location, then you often stand a better chance than a young single person who has worked at 5 startups in 5 cities in 5 years.So not uncommon to get interview questions related to that kind of stuff.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 09:28:47 am
content: I can’t tell anything about PCB design, but three more general issues were touched in replies. Ones that affected me as a softdev, or IT people I knew.NDAs and other secrecy stuff aren’t going to prevent you from getting a job. Same for any pretense companies keep to build their public image. But this is going to be a trickle income. Unless you live in a country with low price levels or are a teenager, this isn’t going to be a viable source of money to sustain yourself. Not to mention you’ll be doing this in a cladestine manner, breaking your local taxation laws too. (source: own experience, family/friend accounts)Avoid any platform, where you compete for small, one-time tasks. Those are sweatshops, where you bid for doing a job for an unreasonably low price in time insufficient to do it right. You end up either cheating your “clients” to earn pennies on each task, or lose. The money you earn may seem attractive only if you never earned “normal money” (e.g. a teenager) or you live where costs of living are very low. (source: friend accounts, 3rd party research)Having your own projects or participation in open projects always worked great to get a stable position. I sent multiple people to get their first job, which had the “2 years of experience” requirement, and without a fail showing even college projects (complete, working) was working on the first attempt. And I heard that multiple times from other people. It was software, but Dave also mentioned this in his videos regarding electronics positions. (source: own observations, friends accounts, Dave)

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 10:14:33 am
content: Is there a specific reason why you can't get a job as an EE? Are there no jobs locally or are you not getting the opportunities you have applied for?If it's the latter then you need to address that first before becoming a freelancer. Consulting is 10x harder than being an employee or even designing niche products for yourself.It varies depending on the customer, but there are a number of pain points:- If they are small or a start up they often have tiny budgets.- They may not have any technical expertise so you need to guide them on everything (which is fine),- They may not understand the complexity of what they are asking for, at any stage ever (this is not fine, and can be very challenging)- The project may be doomed from the start due to the customers poor commercial decisions.- Hours are spent on project management meetings, updates.- There can be a huge gap between what the customer wants and the actual ideal solution you could offer.- If they want a fixed budget, it's easy to underprice yourself.- When you (inevitably) hit some hidden huge challenge, you often have to eat a huge chunk or all of the time spent fixing this.- If your goal is to build a business, it's hard to scale this model.Of course there are exceptions, the right customer and the right scope that matches your niche. Finding two or three of those may be enough for a decent lifestyle, but even then it's still a grind.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 10:37:35 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 20, 2025, 04:26:42 pmThis. 100% This. Experience is everything.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 06:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 21, 2025, 01:30:53 amMuch the same as you, most of them have been through people who knew my work from previous employers. Some came through the PCB design bureau I'd worked with - we had an informal arrangement whereby I'd design schematics for clients that needed them, and they'd do the PCBs.Eventually I started working for a new client as a result of a purely chance meeting between a friend whom I worked with in my last full time job, and someone who just happened to be based in the same office building as one of our suppliers. They were looking for an electronic engineer, I'd just started taking on contract work, so details were exchanged and, ultimately, quite a large quantity of beer changed hands.Ten years later I'm still working for that client. We've made some very cool stuff together. Ten more years and I should be ready to retire, and I don't see the supply of work drying up any time soon.That's another reason to get the experience working full time as an employee before trying to strike out on your own: contacts.Contacts, and a good working knowledge of IP law.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 07:26:47 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 21, 2025, 10:37:35 amTo add to this, it's notjustexperience. It's previous experiencesuccessfullymaking things in thesame domainas the contract. You can make 1000 Arduino boards and you still won't get hired (unless someone wants an Arduino board).If you've never made an RF board before, you don't have much business getting contracts to make RF boards. Same goes for power electronics. Or ultra low noise stuff. Or high bandwidth stuff.Unless specifically stated up front, if you are taking contracts people expect you to know what you are doing already and not make beginner mistakes.