Bug spray - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 02:11:33 pm
content: Got some plastic junction boxes in the garden which house RJ45 connections, typically for CCTV. Unfortunately, they are not sealed and it's not really practical to seal them fully, so over quite a log time they can get infested with, er, things that leave black dropping like fine damp soil. Or maybe it's fungus - little things move when I open them but I've not looked too closely.Anyway, they gum up the works. Is there some kind of spray or coating which will get them to bugger off and leave the stuff alone?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 03:28:37 pm
content: A lot of times ants get into outside boxes like that. Try putting some Boric Acid power in there. That will usually take care of them. I would NOT recommend any kind of "bug spray" . Most of those use a petroleum carrier and that stuff can be bad about attacking plastics.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 04:24:31 pm
content: Thanks.After putting 'boric acid' into an Amazon search, it seems that I'm going to be inundated with, uh, female health products for the next few weeks.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 05:04:36 pm
content: I have had good luck with boric-acid anti-ant products from Terro.https://www.terro.com/indoor-baitingThey make a viscous liquid that when deployed on small cardboard squares (nicely cut from their packaging) attracts ants away from your goodies, and they track the material back to their nests to share with the others.Before using that, I had two Fluke plastic-packaged voltmeters that were infested by ants--they seem to like ABS.Google will give you recipes to mix your own borax products.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 05:26:32 pm
content: Cheers, Tim. I can feel a minor war coming on

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 05:36:33 pm
content: I read somewhere that ants don't like the smell of peppermint oil. Maybe figure out some way to dispense the odor over a long time.Quote from: PlainName on July 01, 2023, 04:24:31 pmI find it odd that skin care products based on boric acid are mostly marketed to women, they work just as well for men.https://www.youtube.com/shorts/e7zhEF6vZhM

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 06:20:13 pm
content: I don't know what those products on Amazon are all about but my understanding is that Boric Acid is very toxic to the liver in most animals. Using it on your skin reminds me of those people in colonial times that used Arsenic in their makeup and on their wigs. Just ask Napoleon about how well that worked.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 07:17:35 pm
content: Borates are pretty harmless by skin contact but I also wouldn't apply them in a way likely to absorb into the skin.If you think the arsenic cosmetics are wild (and they are) there was a fad for using mercuric chloride in skin creams in the early 20th century. In some places it is still used in skin-lightening creams.The effect of boric acid is that the ants identify it as food and carry it back to the nest, where it can destroy the colony by poisoning the queen. If this is what you intend to do it can work. Sometimes it works better if it is mixed with a food the ants really like, such as grape jelly. But there are other ways to exclude ants including using water (they cannot swim), or sticky coatings that they cannot cross. One brand is "Tanglefoot Insect Barrier".

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 07:56:14 pm
content: I found the chemistry of borates quite interesting as a chemist. For example, most non-chemists are aware of acids like acetic acid, CH3COOH, where the "OH" loses a proton to give R-O-, etc. Boron is "defective" in a electron (just before carbon in the periodic table, attachment). It effectively adds a hydroxyl to give B(OH)3- plus H+. It ia a very weak acid and as a consequence of adding a OH to give a stable tetrahedral structure, it acquires a negative charge. That is, it can form a complex with any compound with vicinal hydroxyls (hydroxyl groups on adjacent carbons), e.g., polysaccharides. That property can be used to analyze neutral polysaccharides by electrophoresis. The chemistry of its salts is also complex.As others have said, it is relatively non-toxic to humans. Years ago, it was used to preserve lettuce being shipped to market. However it was discovered to be very toxic to insects. The mechanism is not entirely clear, but it seem to disrupt their digestive system and kills them. That allows them to bring the toxin back to the hive and kill others. Meanwhile pets and children are relatively unaffected (unlike strychnine).Terro SDS only shows borax, but presumably boric acid is as effective but less soluble in water, and a sweet substance to attract ants (presumably a sugar or glycerol). I was skeptical at first years ago, but it really does work. If you don't want the stickiness, just use borax, which is extremely common as a laundry "amplifier."

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 05:15:23 pm
content: probobly try to put cable glands on it and silicone because I have a feeling these other methods wont work very well

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 05:39:05 pm
content: Quoteor one of the sealing gels from the likes of wiska

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 05:46:37 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 02, 2023, 05:15:23 pmIdeally. But in practice it's not as easy as it sounds.Got an electric gate with cable termination in a box on each post (for the motors). They are identical and have cable glands that seal, lids that seal, etc. One side is perfect, as clean as the day it was put in, whereas the other side is infested with this black stuff. I have boxes around which aren't sealed, and the are black stuff-free for no apparent reason.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 05:48:01 pm
content: Quote from: helius on July 01, 2023, 07:17:35 pmI've used the water trick to keep ants out of pet dishes. I set their bowl or plate on a larger plate with water in it. It acts as an ant moat.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 05:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on July 02, 2023, 05:46:37 pmI guess there is a shaft hole or something? I had great success sealing stuff with silicone, copper/stainless wool and glands.Perhaps the boxes emit some kind of plasticizer or plastics related material that is aromatic for ants and they converge there because it is a odor trap and the other one is vented so they don't see anything special about it. Usually ant's wont converge to a odd location unless there is food or to build a hive but if their gonna build a hive I feel you would find serious activity in there and it probobly gets too hot for a hive where you are in the open sunlight so idk

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 05:55:38 pm
content: and are you sure there is no stupidity preventing the seal from working like someone installing cable glands over a gnarly burr or flash left in the mold? missing gasket? Say someone did a number like used a hot poker to melt a hole in the box and put a cable gland on it without deburring the thing (the tool for deburring nicely is kind of expensive and they don't want workers using utility knives and stuff).Plastic workers are getting really creative on tik tok, they like using heat fitup and stuff instead of glue. .. loads of problems can occur from those processes.or just a crack some where.or if its a cable, there might be a wire pulled from the cable so it provides a pipe right into the thing.Cuz like those boxes are pretty good unless its installed improperly or damaged it should keep insects out. I would be worried about boric acid corroding somethign if it gets humid and reacts with some atmospheric vapors slowly (trace gasses) and makes some kind of corrosive gas inside the box and trashes it.If there is conduit running into it I suspect there is a underground breach of the conduit that is letting subterranean ants in.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 09:21:11 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2I don't if it is ants. Haven't seen any, just this black mess. As I say, it's kind of like damp soil.QuoteNo.The control box for the gates has a short conduit between it and a similar box which house practically nothing, just an interface board to the loop coil (unpowered, not working) and a switch. The empty box shows signs of infestation but the control box doesn't.