What new in the "$400 DSO world" for 2017/2018? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 01:21:11 pm
content: Hi!I`m looking for new 50-100MHz DSO.Older models (like in 2010) from Rigol Hantek etc everywere nowBut what new for 2017/2018? Can I grab some improved model for $400?Thanx!

author: Gabri74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 02:13:38 pm
content: I'm eagerly waiting for this...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 02:48:04 pm
content: GreatBut it is not $400 DSO

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 03:10:32 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on October 27, 2017, 01:21:11 pmThis isn't the mobile phone industry, where models are updated yearly.As of right now, at the $400 price point, the Rigol DS1054Z remains unchallenged.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 04:13:50 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on October 27, 2017, 02:48:04 pmWhat makes you say that? I don't think they have yet quoted a price, but from the price of the 2 channel model, and competing models, I doubt it will be too far above $400.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 04:17:57 pm
content: What did You mean?https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XSDS1202X-E+.TRS0&_nkw=SDS1202X-E+&_sacat=0

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 07:08:43 pm
content: What about HANTEK DSO4004B SERIES? 4x100MHz = 410$, 4x200MHz - 470$ (eBay prices).

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 07:38:06 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on October 27, 2017, 04:17:57 pmFor some odd reason a lot of fairly high prices appeared on the internet for the SDS1202X-E before it was actually launched and available.http://www.saelig.com/product/sds1202x-e.htmshows the real price, which you'll also find at other official distributors.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 07:47:37 pm
content: Thank You!Is SDS1202X-E reputable now? Does he had some fatal bugs?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:20:18 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on October 27, 2017, 07:47:37 pmIt definitely had a lot of bad bugs. You could download the latest firmware and look at the list of what's fixed.Still... 2 channels is very limiting these days, no matter how shiny and new it might look. You don't say what you want to use it for but if you're at all into microcontrollers or anything digital then 2 channels isn't really enough.That's why a lot of people regard the Rigol as "king" in this price range (including EEVBLOG Dave). It's the sensible choice, not because it's better/faster/newer but because it has 4 channels.(...and because it's well built and works well enough for just about anything you might want to do, except for FFTs. The FFTs are bit clunky, if they're very important then look elsewhere).

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 12:47:12 am
content: Quote from: 001 on October 27, 2017, 07:47:37 pmCurrently there is a HW bug that requires users to open the scope and solder 2 SMD 1206 capacitors...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1334313/#msg1334313

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 12:48:58 am
content: The Micsig TO1104 is around $460 (in the US) with battery and all options including serial decode option 1 that can decode UART, I2C, SPI, CAN and LIN. 4 channels, 100MHz.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 12:55:42 am
content: Quote from: Gabri74 on October 27, 2017, 02:13:38 pmYeah. That scope, depending on hackability and price, could finally be the thing to dethrone or at least sit next to the 1054z as the budget champion. I suspect that Siglent has some kind of oscilloscope ASIC in it, like maybe a MegaZoom-kind of chip. The biggest benefit to that would be that it should have reasonable speed for all measurements, but especially the FFT.

author: hugo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 01:45:38 am
content: Quote from: 001 on October 27, 2017, 01:21:11 pmJust do some basic research about scopes in that price range there're not too many ... I would not look for something new anyway (translation: buggy !!!).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 01:49:47 am
content: Quote from: technogeeky on October 28, 2017, 12:55:42 amThere's much it will whip the 1054Z on, twice the sampling rate and BW for starters plus a # of new features not seen before in entry level DSO's.The gut's will be quite similar to the present SDS1202X-E excepting it has 2 ASIC's but as yet we don't know which BW models will be available in the west. I've got a 100 MHz model for beta testing and apparently it'll be available in 100 and 200 MHz versions.If you remember Dave had only the 100 MHz version to review but then only a 200 MHz version was released.Who knows which way it will pan out this time.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:01:32 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 28, 2017, 01:54:22 amThere is no firmware crack for the $500 Keysight (EDUX-1000). You need to do some hardware mod to convert it to DSOX-1000

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 02:19:17 am
content: Well...I don't know if anyone noticed, but the clearance center at rigolna.com has a couple of DS2072's for $336 and a DS2102 for $400. Not the A model, but that seems like a pretty good price.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 05:17:09 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on October 28, 2017, 02:19:17 amRigol EU has a clearance center, too:https://www.rigol.eu/clearance/Right now there's a DS1054Z for €300.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 07:52:55 am
content: Quote from: TK on October 28, 2017, 12:48:58 amThat is a good deal and IMHO one of the better buys in this price range.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 12:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on October 28, 2017, 02:19:17 amThe last time I checked, Rigol USA offers only 90 day warranty on clearance items. It is better to wait for Black Friday deals from Rigol as they sell new items at very low prices... not sure about what type of warranty, though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 10:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 28, 2017, 01:54:22 amNone of them offer 4 channels for anywhere near $400 or $500. That’s a big limitation!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 11:01:26 pm
content: GW Instek has the GDS1054B which has 10Mpts/channel, fast FFT, costs less than $400 and offers 4 channels.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 11:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 28, 2017, 11:01:26 pmBut which isn't hackable to unlock any options/bandwidth and doesn't have serial decoders, etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 12:03:13 am
content: Quote from: Gabri74 on October 27, 2017, 02:13:38 pmI'm getting one early Novemeber.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 12:08:20 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 28, 2017, 10:54:42 pmThe new 4 channel Siglent is under US$500 and like other recent Silgents includes all the serial decoders for free.So yes, if you raise the bar to US$500 then there are good competitors to the Rigol.The Rigol (still?) has the advantage of being hackable.A 4CH shootout might in order if I can find the time...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 12:36:22 pm
content: I'm wondering at which point we will see some movement from the A-brands when it comes to paid decoders. There are several brands now which include them at no extra cost without needing hacks.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 12:40:43 pm
content: Silent just offered me a 1204 to review, but I've not had time for my own stuff the last few months let alone reviews of gear I wouldn't normally use..

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 12:47:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 29, 2017, 12:08:20 amReviews and teardowns are pending, but, if they release that thing at that price then Rigol will probably need a new model, yes.(or at least a price cut, which they can probably do quite easily these days)Or maybe $399 is the sweet spot for hobbyist 'scopes. Who knows?Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 29, 2017, 12:40:43 pmFeel free to pass them my details.

author: frogblender
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 03:49:58 pm
content: Anyone onHantek DSO4004B series or DSO4004C(with funcgen)?They LOOK great - 4ch, 4sets of knobs, cheap, maxbw=250, sampl=1Ga. But 2 out of 2 amazon reviews (Oct2017) ROASTED the firmware as complete unuseable horsecrap - super buggy and unbelievably slow. But hantek released new firmware in Nov2017...http://amzn.to/2jeU45Q

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 09:20:34 pm
content: Hantek has a decade(s?) long tradition of terrible software / firmware, even by the standards of low-end test equipment, which are low to start with. Consider them bad until proven good.Last time I installed a hantek upgrade, it took me the better part of a day and IDA to get working (they linked against a debug dll that they didn't include). Support never got back to me (of course). That was my first and last experience with them, but I've heard many like it, and none that suggest they may have changed their ways.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 09:28:46 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 29, 2017, 12:36:22 pmWho is the other one apart from Siglent?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 09:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 22, 2017, 09:28:46 pmGW Instek and MicSig (the latter until the end of this month but it wouldn't surprise me if they change their minds -again-). BTW I'm not sure whether Siglent was the first to include free decoding anyway.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 10:15:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 29, 2017, 12:03:13 amLooking forward to seeing your shakedown on it.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 10:54:58 pm
content: Rigol seems to be having a fire sale on the 1054Z. First it dropped to $349 with the usual free shipping and then the Option BND-MSO/DS1000Z software bundle thrown in as a freebee. No mention of upping it to 100 Mhz, natch. A lot going on in this market recently. I mentioned this in another thread, but that was started about the 4ch Siglet and it was already getting pretty far off track, so I decided to mention it here as well. Dave

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 09:40:53 am
content: Quote from: Old Printer on November 22, 2017, 10:54:58 pmRigol has shipped an awful of DS1054Zs over the last couple of years. Probably more than any other oscilloscope in history. There was a thread where people were watching the "in stock" number on Batronix' web page and they were shifting thousands per month, maybe as many as 10,000 last Xmas season alone.With sales like that over the last three years they'll be in a good position to cut the price a bit if a real competitor appears.Quote from: Old Printer on November 22, 2017, 10:54:58 pmI don't believe they've ever offered 100MHz as an official upgrade.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 09:45:14 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 22, 2017, 09:37:39 pmMaybe it's just a language aspect, but Siglent has been the first one to launch a model for which no options exist. I mean, it's different to say "this is model SDS1202X-E with features such as decoding, etc" or say "this is model SDSwhateevr with free decoding and triggering options until 2018".They haven't announced their model as a special offer, but as a model with everything in the packge. Others launch "special bundles" now and then, generally limited in time, and with options in their price list.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 10:33:23 am
content: Quote from: borjam on November 23, 2017, 09:45:14 amI'm pretty sure GW Instek was the first to do that with the GDS1000B and GDS2000E series. There are no options available for these models since everything is included.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 11:05:01 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 23, 2017, 10:33:23 amOops, sorry. I stand corrected, then

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 06:17:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 29, 2017, 12:08:20 amSuch a shootout would make an epic video. There would be a lot of interest, not only for new buyers, but from those who might consider upgrading from the DS1054Z. I don't know that I would sell my Rigol but I very well might buy the Siglent.In my view, bandwidth is the most important spec for a scope - other than channels. And 200 is higher than 100, channels being equal.