Anybody use simple new analog scopes like Sinometer CQ5010C/D? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 04:47:30 pm
content: Anybody use simple scopes like Sinometer CQ5010C?I`m looking for BRANDNEWand COMPACTCRT-scope to replace my heavy crap 40-years scope.10MHz and basic interface looks pretty well (digital bells and whistles like cursor measurments and log is not required) since I use scope for audio service works.REAL user`s opinions welcomeSchematics:http://www.olegrmz.narod.ru/OSU10/list1.jpghttp://www.olegrmz.narod.ru/OSU10/list2.jpghttp://www.olegrmz.narod.ru/OSU10/list3.jpghttp://www.olegrmz.narod.ru/OSU10/list4.jpg

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 05:29:44 pm
content: Well, they look like 'honest' scopes - what you see is what you get. Very clear front panel layout.From what I can see, on the plus side you have:- Decent maximum input levels- Calibrated V/Div and Time/Div controls- Very simple layout- X-Y mode- Reasonable range of triggering options, including ext.On the negative side (obvious really):- Single chanel- No dual / delayed timebase- I'm not keen on the round CRT on the top one, although scopes were made like that for years.If single channel, single timebase is sufficient for your audio-only work then those aren't a problem.There's no way to comment on value for money as you haven't given a price, but I suspect that was intentional. As I say, it's very much a what you see is what you get product.P.S. I just noticed your real user comment - I doubt if you'll find many actual users of these particular model scopes, I've never seen them before or heard of the brand name. I don't know your location or which countries they are sold in.P.P.S. The circuitry looks really simple, you ought to be able to maintain it indefinitely apart from maybe CRT, HT transformer any manufacturer specific switches etc.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 08:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 08, 2017, 05:29:44 pmHad a look on the Sinometer website. They have some dual-channel models too.http://www.sinometer.com/?Oscilloscopes-category185.htmlBut where in the West are they actually for sale?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 08:57:14 pm
content: I own a pile of these scopes in the 'landscape' format. They came from Digimess as a shipment that had been dropped in transit. All but one cathode ray tube had broken. They sold me 12 of them for £25 including postage ! That was £25 for all of them, not each ! They obviously wanted rid of them.I ordered some new CRT's from China at £10 a piece and they arrived mostly intact. Three got damaged.I did some thorough inspection work on these scopes and was not very impressed with what I found. Cheap PCB material, cheap quality components, poor soldering, poor quality plastics and underwhelming performance when repaired. I rebuilt one to see if they were any use for my projects.I have since parked the scopes on a shelf for a day when I can get around to fitting the CRT's. This may never happen....why ? Because these CRO's really are not worth the time and effort.These scopes are very much built down to a price and the build quality is frankly pretty poor. Do not expect great accuracy, performance or longevity. Ok for a primary school scope or the casual hobbyist, but pretty poor as a main scope for anything verging on serious work. I found the schematics for these scopes on the Conrad we site. The later models have a different time base circuit. It is very unreliable and is known to fail often due to rotary switch contact resistance !I love analogue oscilloscopes and CRT's so I am not biased against these scopes because of these factors. My honest advice is to save your money and buy a USED good quality scope from the Hameg stable. You will not regret it.I have a stack of around 15 Hameg scopes in my garage that I need to do something with but I am in the UK. The Hameg scopes have served me very well over the years and make the detailed Chinese scopes look like toys in comparison.You could also consider a new or used bench DSO ? I ended up buying a few over the last 5 years and they do perform well. I bought the Rigol 1054E first then some DW Instek units, Tektronixs TDS 200 series and 1000 series, and finally a Tenma unit that is really a UNI-T. All were very reasonably priced. I also have a couple of Tektronix THS portable DSO's and a couple of UNI-T portable DSO's. That is a pretty good sample of the affordable new and used DSO market (excluding USB scopes that I also own) all, without exception are better performers than the CRO you have detailed. The GW Instek DSO's cost me £100 each as new old stock. The Tenma was less than that and the Tektronix were all around the £100 mark used. I still get on well with the venerable old Tektronix TDS220 as it is just so easy to use. The 1000 series is similar.You do not have to spend a fortune on a decent scope. Just avoid buying a poor quality new unit instead of an excellent quality used unit that has been well cared for.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 09:07:46 pm
content: The Digimess web site is selling these scopes as the MO10. It is to be found here......http://www.digimessinstruments.co.uk/oscilloscopes/I am honestly surprised that these are being sold anymore. The cheaper DSO's perform better and the MO10 could be best described as a waveform monitor rather than a true oscilloscope. Cheap and Nasty is another description that would be equally appropriate.If your you were in the UK you could have one from me with new tube for the cost of the tube and postage !Fraser

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 09:10:13 pm
content: https://www.amazon.com/Sinometer-Single-Channel-Oscilloscope-YB4328/dp/B00NB58FJ4The reference to TV is interesting.Quote from: NottheDan on January 08, 2017, 08:08:24 pm

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 10:01:45 pm
content: Quote from: shteii01 on January 08, 2017, 09:10:13 pmCheers. Looked on the UK Amazon site but didn't think to take a glance at the US one.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 10:10:06 pm
content: How did they pick their name? "Digimess"?If they were very very inexpensive (under $75 USD new), carried at least a one or two year guarantee, and had very basic scope functionality there might be a market for them among the non-ebay savvy, and perhaps schools and hobbyists on tight budgets.But only if they were quite inexpensive.When you're starting out, any scope is better than no scope.If they have a niche - say, very inexpensive, basic, reliable, under some economic conditions, that is a good niche to occupy.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 10:59:58 pm
content: Digimess is a weird name, I agree. Sounds plain awful to be honest. Grundig sold them their test equipment rights. Many of their models are original Grundig range and decent quality. They have added cheap Chinese kit to the stock though and that is pretty poor quality.I own a lovely function generator, programmable power supply and 2.4GHz frequency counter that were all originally branded Grundig. All are decent quality. Digimess kit is often over priced IMHO and the service manuals cost £40 each !Digimess sell off demo, used and faulty kit via eBay. Faulty kit usually comes with a schematic. They do not bother to repair customer returns usually. My frequency counter cost me £120 as Ex Demo but the unit I received seemed more like overstock as it was absolutely pristine, packed as new in the pristine unopened box with all parts and manual in sealed bags. My programmable Power Supply was sold as faulty by them for a bargain £40. The fault was that the large toroidal transformer moved in transit and pinched the live supply wire to the earthed chassis. Reinsulation of the live wire, a new fuse, and tightening of the Torroid transformer retaining screw had it working perfectly. There were bargains to be had and they also sell used/demo kit on their web site. Current prices seem higher than I remember though.Digimess sell the MO10 new for £129.Fraser

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 11:02:37 pm
content: 001,Take a look at the more modern Iwatsu analog scopes. I picked up one a few months ago and really like it so far.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 11:39:39 pm
content: Any particular reason for wanting a brand new one?There's a good amount of availability in older portable analog scopes, they'll be inexpensive and will probably have lots of data points for what is likely to fail, how to fix it, and full service manuals.Aside from the new electronics smell, why would a new budget analog unit be preferable to an older one?

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 02:00:07 am
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on January 08, 2017, 11:39:39 pmMy WAG is that OP is in Russia. They don't have a large supply of used high quality electronic test equipment. However, they do have a large supply of new Chinese equipment.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 07:55:57 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 08, 2017, 05:29:44 pmThese have been around for years--"badge engineered" as Attens,Digitech,& a host of other names.I bought the "Digitech" one ("portrait" style) quite a few years back,to help me fix my BWD 511.I found the BWD fault with it,but never finished fixing that instrument,as the little "crudscope", as I nicknamed it, did most of the same stuff---the screen size is tiny compared with the BWD,butI could live with it.I paid more than I should for it--$A135!!,but didn't have the time to chase around at the time.It has definite "pros & cons".Pros:-(1)Trigger circuit works well.(2) Timebase range is good(3) Display vertical linearity is good (easy enough with such a small CRT).(4) External trigger input(5) X-Y inputs(6)TV "H " & "V" syngh position(not all that useful these days)(7)"Line "trigger position ( triggers off Mains 50 or 60 Hz)Cons:-(1) Tiny screen, unilluminated graticule with fairly poor marking.(2) Knobs fall off(3) BNC vert connector has too short threaded part,so it comes loose--replace with good connector.(4) The tube EHT circuit failed in mine--easy to fix,just replace the switching transistors.(5) The thing is tiny--it looks like it was designed to be operated by "Cabbage Patch Kids".As I have said on many occasions,you can do good work with the most basic Oscilloscope.It came in very handy in tracing control circuits of a UHF transmitter in my last job before retirement.( they had a Spec An but no 'scope!!!)A few years back,I bought a Tek 7613 at a Hamfest----40 years old,but compared to the Digitech,it was like comparing a Learjet to a hanglider!It cost me the same amount I had paid for the "crudscope" a few years before.That said,I've got a "soft spot" for the wee beastie--if it was $A70 to $80 it would be worth buying one--at least it doesn't lie to you like the "El Cheapo" DSOs.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 08:13:17 am
content: Buying a new analogue oscilloscope can be challenging as most main stream manufacturers stopped production of such years ago.The DSO is now the mass produced oscilloscope so the OP may have to look for a suitable digital oscilloscope instead. Fortunately prices have dropped on DSO's especialy those with limited sample rate such as my GW Instek models. They only sample at 250MS/S so are really only useful for 25MHz real time waveform captures. There is then the issue of noise levels shown on some DSO's. That may be a deal breaker fro the OP. I would avoid the really cheap DIY, Nano and simple USB oscilloscopes as they are unlikely to be that great.I still cannot recommend the simple analogue oscilloscope detailed by the OP though. It is just too poor in terms of build quality an performance. Not something that can be rectified easily even by the keen hobbyist. From memory, the linearity of sweep across the screen very poor and amplitude accuracy was just about OK. It has a small round CRT with limited graticule so can be challenging to use as a measurement tool.Ultimately the OP needs to consider what has been said in this thread and decide whether the simple analogue oscilloscope is 'good enough' for their needs. Maybe such a simple and somewhat poorly built scope is still adequate for the required tasks ? I hope he//she does not overpay for it though.Another factor is how well these scopes travel..... put simply, they are under-packed and tend to not travel well. The fragile CRT is the problem. It either gets shattered or the whole electron gun assembly moves down inside the tube neck. This destroys the scopes performance and may explain some user comments on poor trace quality and alignment. The whole electron gun sits on some pretty thin connecting wires and is not adequately supported inside the tube. The glass envelope is also VERY thin rather than the thicker glass used in well known manufacturers products. The CRT is fragile, very fragileHence why some of the new tubes sent to me from China were scrap. The electron guns had moved out of position in transit and could not be moved back into position.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 08:30:23 am
content: My pet 'simple scope' is a lovely little Hameg HM103-2. It is a diminutive single channel 10MHz CRO that triggers well beyond its 10MHz bandwidth so can still display signals up to as far as 30MHz, but with no vertical calibration of course ! I bought one and liked it so much that I even bought a spare. They are basic scopes intended for the electronics hobbyist with simple needs, or educational establishments. They sold well and when I worked in a Hameg dealership I heard good feedback about them. They were expensive for a single channel scope though !The build quality was excellent and I cannot remember us ever receiving one in for repair due to a manufacturing fault.Such a scope would likely suit the OP well, but if new is the only option sadly that is not going to happen. This scope is long discontinued as Hameg found it too expensive to manufacture and margins were thin. Its a really dinky size thoughThese scopes are elderly now so failures will start to occur. There is a page discussing their repair on this forum. It s where I stole the internal picture fromHappily these scopes are normally simple to maintain as Hameg tended to use common easily purchased parts in their designs.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hameg-hm103-problems-repair/Fraser

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 10:18:48 am
content: Ebay is (about to get) flooded with good as new GW Instek analog scopes and low end Rigol digital oscilloscopes. I do recommend buying a DSO for audio work because a DSO is also good at showing low frequencies (<50Hz).

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 11:48:57 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 08, 2017, 10:10:06 pmYou can blame it on the Germans. "Mess-" meaning measuring.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 01:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 09, 2017, 08:30:23 amAnother vote for these. I had one for a bit from a school skip dive in about 2000. Thoroughly regret selling it. Very well put together and easy to service. Perfect for most low frequency/audio and some RF applications. Unlike some companies (Tek I still hate you for making me take an entire A4 board out of a 465B) it feels like it was engineered by one team rather than several who ended up with a frankenscope at the end.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 04:45:56 pm
content: Thanx fo quick answers!Quote from: DaJMasta on January 08, 2017, 11:39:39 pmOlder units in Russia = Soviet units (HP copies in all). All high grade soviet units has gold plated ICs and Palladium/Silver swiches. Illegal "gold traders" recycle them simply for gold.And now common soviet unit = no-gold unit. i.e. poor entry-level unit in a scrap condition.I`m old man and I preffer new tools, boots and beerQuote from: nctnico on January 09, 2017, 10:18:48 amSorry, but most of DSO sucks in audio works. My OWON hum and approx made them unusable for decent biasing and oscillating trimming.I`m also really NEED simple analog scope. I hope it will be COMPACT and BRAND NEW (for swiches and CRT life). Any ideas?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 05:02:37 pm
content: Sadly not in the Analogue domain. I cannot think of a decent analogue scope that is still in production.Is importing a really good condition analogue scope not an option ? I know you want decent quality and new, but they are no longer available new. The world has gone digital and we are left with little choice but to buy good analogue kit on the used market or new digital kit.Fraser

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 05:09:27 pm
content: GW Instek still sell a range of new analogue scopes.Not naff Chinese ones either. Good Chinese ones!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 05:56:32 pm
content: I just stumbled on an interesting thread on this forum. It would appear that the Hameg CRO' designs may still be being built and sold by a company in India.Maybe worth looking at as the original Hameg 203 series were very goo and used in both education and industry.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scientific-hm203g-analog-oscilloscope-11-copy-of-hameg/?topicseen

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 06:08:56 pm
content: Yes, it seems Hameg's retired model build rights have been sold to an Indian company. They are selling a select series of models to meet their markets demands. As state, the Hameg HM2xx series were well designed and built. The Later HM3xx had some issues with reliability. The HM2xx series were the better built series IMHO.Full range listed here:http://www.skyking.in/product_2.htmlFraser

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 11:41:32 am
content: In any case, thanx for answers.If someone have similar scopes for sale - welcome to "private messages" (used in mint condition also)