Cheap fume extractor, advice needed - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: haggar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 02:52:30 pm
content: Hey all,I've been doing a fair amount of reading around, and from what I can see, a lot of cheaper 'fume' extractors, simply aren't worth the money as they don't work.So I've seen this;https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/1234905/And I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with things like this? Mostly interested in knowing if it actually works well enough to remove not only the smoke, but the particulates therein.I'm not doing a huge amount of soldering, but I'm in a small room with not the most amazing ventilation available.Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.Ta

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:05:46 pm
content: I'd argue that the one you've highlightedisa cheap fume 'extractor'. If I thought I were doing enough soldering to need extraction, I'd sooner jury rig a fan and hose to vent outdoors.I've just bought aBofa V200, which seems to be about the cheapest 'real' fume extractor out there. (Tip: the RS branded version is inexplicably more expensive than the same unit from almost anywhere else without the RS branding... go figure!)

author: haggar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:10:40 pm
content: Yeah you're right, it is a cheap one, but I sort of figured that if it came from a recognised supplier, it might be good enough. i.e it actually did anything.But now you mention it, it does appear to be just an RS branded Chinesium jobbo. I'll just hold my breath for now.Ta

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:11:59 pm
content: Just had one of the RS ones returned Haggar - the top one of the 3 horizontal wire mesh bits had fallen off because of rubbish welds. Never been used, still in box with spare filters.£30 shipped if you want it?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:24:07 pm
content: A small HEPA cleaner is basically the same as a fume extractor, a fan with a filter. Ive been told by scientists that the "activated carbon" in most consumer level air cleaners is just there for cosmetics and is not capable of cleaning VOCs out of air for very long. If it was, the filters would have to be very thick and likely would also be expensive. And even so they would not last very long. So what I use (for my whole house, not just soldering) is something called a heat recovery ventilator, its basically a double fan one in, one out, with a heat exchanging area with high thermal conductance and surface area sandwiched in an X shaped cube between their two airflows.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:27:43 pm
content: microwave oven fan or computer fan will do, then usecardboard box sections and use ducktape or wood glue and/or an old vacuum cleaner hoseto take the air to a open window from your bench.no air filters needed. its cheap and a fume extractor

author: haggar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:44:05 pm
content: Thanks for the offer TopLoser, I think I'll leave it for now. I think I'll just have a bash at making something, but thanks again.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 03:50:56 pm
content: I was thinking of using something like this too (there are a lot of units that look almost exactly the same), but I'm not sure as well after reading some posts here.About a computer fan, are they not less powerful? These mention about 23 watts or so, but I'm not sure how efficient they are.As for filter, it is of course possible to buy a filter and place it in the homemade thing, but will this not need a lot more power for the fans? As the filter (and the thicker it is, more so) will obstruct the air flow.I'm not sure how easy it is to make something better than just a small fan (and soldering very close to it so you don't breath in the fumes directly in maximum concentration).

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 04:01:09 pm
content: I agree, thats much better than blowing the air around. If you put two fans in the window you can have one blowing fresh air in at the same time.Quote from: jonovid on November 30, 2017, 03:27:43 pm

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 04:21:36 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on November 30, 2017, 04:01:09 pmto be cheap, a lot depend on what may have laying around un-used at the time. free stuff.whether you suck or blow the stale air from your bench. sucking has no turbulence at the bench end.

author: haggar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 04:39:07 pm
content: I've got a couple of 120mm PC fans on the shelf somewhere, so I'll try hooking one of those up later to the vacuum cleaner tube, see how much it can remove.Thanks for all the input!

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 05:10:22 pm
content: I got a few cardboard box's several years ago, some gaffer / duct tape, a large cooling 12 volt fan from an old computer, some old vacuum cleaner flexi hose, some sketch paper and pencil and ruler and knife and maybe a hot melt glue gun, what a tool that is for sticking cardboard !!!. I made an extractor hood vented to outside with no filter material at all and it worked a treat , just don't make the hood too large area as the fan draw wont be very effective , you could make drop down sides and back to improve the effect , its all experimentation.Design it on paper before cutting the valuable cardboard.Pro extractor systems are not cheap so it its make do on the cheap.Good luck

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 09:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: haggar on November 30, 2017, 04:39:07 pmYou can double up on the fans to increase airflow - a common solution in high performance PC cooling applications.

author: Kilo Tango
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 09:18:15 pm
content: The cheapish ones are just a fan and charcoal filter. Farnell sell the filters for around £5,http://uk.farnell.com/bofa/efilt02/filter-carbon-120x120mm/dp/501530Whether the filters work or not ...Ken

author: TheDane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 03:49:16 pm
content: I have an extra hose for my vacuum cleaner, which is an Electrolux ultrasilencer model.It has an internal HEPA-12 filter, which removes almost all particles above a certain size.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPAIt is also really quiet (dB(A); max 69), and it sucks air quite well (and other stuff too, so I use it for general cleaning when needed) Dual use rocks!When placed in another room I can't hear it, and it works wonders.Only trouble is when I have to do a single solder joint, and the vacuum is packed away - lazy boy"To qualify as HEPA by US government standards, an air filter must remove (from the air that passes through) 99.97% of particles that have a size of 0.3 µm."Edit - added: The suction is variable, so it can go gentle or be a hurricane.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 04:06:43 pm
content: They likely remove VOCs when they are first unwrapped, their VOC removal capability is related to the surface area of the carbon they contain and the amount of pollution in the ambient air.Its my understanding that in toxic environments thick and expensive carbon filters use time is typically hours, not days or weeks. They have to be kept in a sealed container until they are used. A carbon filter for toxic environments has to be effective or somebody could be seriously poisoned.Quote from: Kilo Tango on November 30, 2017, 09:18:15 pmHEPA filters can last six months or longer if they are not used continuously. It makes more sense to use a different prefilter, other prefilter materials are washable.They even make washable reusable HEPA filters.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 06:07:00 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on December 01, 2017, 04:06:43 pmYour understanding is wrong, as was pointed out in other threads. But you continue to spread this misinformation.Activated carbon can typically adsorb  1/3 to 1/2 its weight in most vapors. The big, dense carbon filters used in proper fume extractors can weigh in at at least several hundred grams, so the capacity of such a filter is enormous, and they can last months to years especially in a home environment. It is important to note that the bulk of the flux smoke is particulate, and this is removed very effectively by more traditional filter elements prior to the activated carbon, which only has to deal with vapor, not particles. Flux smoke particles are especially easy to filter as they are "sticky" and cling to the initial filter media very readily.To the OP: Forget those cheap glorified fans. Real fume extractors from companies like Pace, Weller, and Metcal, are very effective.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 06:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on December 01, 2017, 06:07:00 pmYes, of course, but these can also be expensive, especially for those not soldering very frequently.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 07:36:02 pm
content: New lungs aremoreexpensive, though.

author: haggar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 08:08:17 pm
content: So putting home made DIY jobbos aside, what would people recommend for a named brand fume extractor that doesn't cost a silly amount? Would a couple of hundred quid get me something reasonable and safe?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 10:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: haggar on December 01, 2017, 08:08:17 pmYou might want to see if you can find aQuick 6101Ain the UK (Kaisertech has the 6102 for 485GBP, presumably ex. VAT). These things just aren't cheap.The only other thing I can think of that's less expensive, isZavasuction/3Dhose. There's 2 different models available (here).There's a review of one here in the forum, as well as a few Youtube videos.

author: Kilo Tango
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 11:46:11 pm
content: The "other way" of doing it is to have a suction system with a small pick up pipe fitted to the iron, probably about 1cm away from the tip. This sucks the soldering fumes away into a receptor somewhere else, where it is dealt with by some means. More in use at factories, however a quiet vac pump exhausting to the outside might work. Only real pain is you now have two pipes going to your iron, a bit unwieldy at times.Fumes can be bad for you and give you lung problems; so can driving along the M62 in the morning/evening.Ken

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 12:01:43 am
content: The word "Cheap" in your title means poor quality.Maybe the problem is that you are using acheapsoldering incinerator instead of a quality soldering iron that does not get hot enough to incinerate the rosin in the flux.My Weller soldering iron has fixed temperature control, not a simple "light dimmer knob". It is always at the correct temperature if it is used all the time or if it is just sitting there all day. Yours without temperature control probably gets hotter and hotter and hotter then incinerates the rosin making smoke.Your soldering iron's tip does not hold tinning and does not last long when it is too hot. It can lift the copper pads on a pcb when it is too hot. It can destroy semiconductors when it is too hot. It can destroy your lungs when it is too hot.

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 01:08:26 pm
content: To the person wanting a fume extraction system.Before i give another answer to help out, I have a question for you , have you ever been employed in the electronics / engineering industry ?.

author: electronicsdude
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 06:43:26 am
content: I use a cheap 12v car vacuum that is ghetto zip tied to my helping hands. Pretty proud of it. Gonna upgrade it by 3D printing a housing to transport the fumes outdoors.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 06:49:02 am
content: Quote from: electronicsdude on December 04, 2017, 06:43:26 amInteresting, how loud is it?

author: electronicsdude
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 08:14:45 am
content: Hey, it's pretty loud. Sounds like a mild blender, that's the downside of it I guess. It's definitely better than breathing in the fumes though. I think that no matter what you do in the end, just use a small fan in the meantime, I regret dragging my feet for so long. I'm going to the doc this week to get a checkup as I've been experiencing abdominal pain recently. Hopefully, it is not lead poisoning.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 02:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: electronicsdude on December 04, 2017, 08:14:45 amSeriously though, lead does not vaporize at soldering temperatures. You'd have to heat it to 1750C for that to happen. The fumes are from the flux used.And as per ingestion, all you have to do is wash your hands before eating or drinking anything.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 05:59:02 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 04, 2017, 02:44:15 pmThat's what I hear from everyone. I also hear that with lead free stuff, sometimes more intense flux is needed, which could be more toxic. I still have no idea which fluxes are safer than others.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 06:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on December 04, 2017, 05:59:02 pmAssuming you mean the level of activity for similar performance to a rosin product, then yes. Lead free fluxes have a shorter working time due to the higher temps, so the flux has to be more active in order to do it's job in the time available vs. a traditional rosin product with lead based solder.Some no-clean formulations are actually rosin (only labelled as no-clean) or modified rosin based. It's the fully synthetic resin based formulations that's more prone to be nastier in terms of it's fumes IME (harder to clean too).