I'm giving a STEM talk - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 04:51:35 am
content: I've volunteered to give a talk to year 7 students on STEM and the field of renewable energy that would kick off their week long program on sustainable energy:QuoteAny ideas for talking points appreciated, not that I can't just turn up and waffle on for half an hourBut obviously it's gotta hold the attention span of 13yo's for 30 minutesThey said I can do practical demos (no idea), show videos, and/or death by powerpoint.Obviously some stuff on stupid ideas, debunking (solar roads!), and critical thinking might go down well.The kids LOVE youtube, so there will be a small part on being a Youtuber in the educational space.

author: Mighty Burger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:03:07 am
content: Please let us know how it goes! You're the right guy for this - you're a wonderful teacher.I think having at least one physical model would go a long ways. Bonus points if they get to touch it, but that might be hard to implement with this topic.A little debunking of stupid ideas e.g. "Solar Freakin' Roadways" would do wonders for capturing their attention and entertaining them. But you might not want to go overboard on that, otherwise they may leave with the impression that all renewable energy is hippy-dippy snake oil. Let them start the week off with an optimistic view of renewable energy.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:09:46 am
content: Quote from: Mighty Burger on July 24, 2019, 05:03:07 amYep, not idea what thoughI thought of one maybe. A peltier device hooked up to a fan or lights or something else that works when I put my warm hand on it ?Not spectacular but can lead to interesting points.QuoteYes, a fine line there. I'm sure Solar Freak'n Roadways will get laughs, as will the Carl Sagan quote

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:28:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 04:51:35 amI'd avoid debunking. A) it is negative and B) you might make an ass out of yourself (thunderfoot is very good at the latter).Maybe just tell the students how you turned your technical career into being a full time You-tuber. Nowadays all the youngsters seem to want to become famous on Youtube.For a demo I think showing how a solar panel works should be enough.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:30:09 am
content: My suggestions (please feel free to ignore any or all).....* Start out with an intro on why renewables are important.* List examples with their limitations.* Can these existing ones be improved?* Maybe talk about brainstorming and other means for stimulating new ideas.* Research and experiment with a focused but open mind. Absolutely use the Carl Sagan quote ! (Are there any research funding examples you could give?)* Apply objective assessment of the results with practical applications. (Solar Freakin' Roadways is an excellent example - but keep the criticism to things like heating the road to melt snow when the panels are covered (hmmm... possibly not the best example for Australia) - maybe the loss of efficiency from dust and/or damage; the cost of installation and maintenance. Hmmm... Maybe don't go too deep on this one.* Let them know they will be the generation to carry on the work done so far. The current researchers, developers and entrepreneurs have provided the basis for them to go even further.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:35:25 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 05:28:25 amI like to think that I can make a negative into a positive, and I can use the example to show the importance of practical engineering and critical thinking rather than just blindly pursuing something. Because the renewable energy business is just full of silly impractical ideas. It'll be a laugh. Perhaps I can even use it as an opportunity to engage the students by showing them part of the solar roadways promo video and then asking them if they see any problems with it.QuoteOf course, they want to hear that. I expect the Q&A to be dominated by questions on Youtube instead of STEMI've given talks on the Youtubing career at school career days several times before and the kids go nuts. Although these are 13yo, so a few years younger than the usual crowd.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:39:56 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 24, 2019, 05:30:09 amGood summary, thanks.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:59:18 am
content: What I'd include in such a speech:I've noticed that a lot of people are ignorant of how much power the Sun provides and the scale of the numbers. Try leading them through the basic ballpark calculations (1kW per square meter = 1GW per square kilometer...). It's a trick really - awing normal people with the scale of numbers, but it can really drive some points home (say, how much a very small increase in energy retention by means of a CO2 increase compares to the total energy generating capabilities of humanity or similar).Don't sugar coat things. Make sure to note that solar is great, but mention the down sides.QuoteSince they are supposed to be building a solar powered water heater, maybe you could compare the absorption of surfaces - A Leslie cube would be a nice demo.QuoteWhy should kids be taught to avoid negative* thinking? A can-do attitude is nice, but is no substitution against reality.* - you use the term negative where I'd use realistic, but OK.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 06:41:34 am
content: To expand on daqq’s point, I think if you could bring along a little generator with a crank and a lightbulb that would really impress on them how much power comes out of a socket. They’ll have to work very hard to light even an LED lightbulb. You can explain that a toaster takes X number of children all cranking at once. Also maybe bring a solar panel and explain how it is approx equal to one kid cranking or whatever.Most people including the teachers will have no idea how much “work” the power out of the wall really does in human terms.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 06:49:39 am
content: Dubbie: That would be a great demo!There's a great video demoing this:

author: ju1ce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 07:00:08 am
content: Reminds me of a student who used to defrost a chicken by keeping it under a running hot water tap for an hour.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 07:07:20 am
content: How willing are you to prepare physical demo devices? Some of them might be interesting but require substantial work to make.For practical demo, consider those Sterling engines. They are fairly cheap and require very little energy to run. Perhaps you can attach some thermal mass to it to demonstrate the possibility of thermal energy storage, the batteries are not the only way to store energy. You could heat it up with a spotlight to simulate sunshine (or expose it to sun if weather/venue permits).For the solar water heater, perhaps you could spend some time on the importance of thermal insulation. Have two identical lumps of thermal mass, one if open air, one in a sealed, preferably, vacuumed vessel. Have a fan blowing on them simulate wind and thermometers to monitor the temperature drop.Heat pumps vs resistive heating.Half an hour can be a long time for 13 year olds, but if the group is not too big, perhaps you can engage some of them to do the experiments with you.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:00:08 am
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on July 24, 2019, 07:07:20 amYeah, maybe an hour or two tops.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:05:27 am
content: I did a little workshop thing at my daughters school where we made motors out of magnets, an AA battery and wire. I made a little A4 sheet up that I printed a couple of dozen copies of that had the build instructions and a little illustrated comic strip of how it worked. I let all the kids take home the materials afterwards. It was massively massively popular! most kids dove in with gusto and I ran out of stuff in about 2 mins. Almost all of them carefully took the materials home afterwards to show mum and dad.Worth thinking about doing a sheet, might give them something to talk about and discuss over the dinner table later?

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:17:15 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 08:00:08 amI am afraid that 30 minute presentation is not enough for sensible physical demo. Thou it is good to have more than just presentation and talk, so you could assemble simple eyecatcher installation of "green energy source & load" like solar cell + LED/toy_fan with table lamp as light source, so you can refer to it in your speech when needed.Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 05:28:25 amPlease don't. Better inspire them to become engineers. Also please make sure to post that talk on YT.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:33:45 am
content: On the matter of debunking I would not go directly against any particular idea. I would stress that science is a search for truth and knowledge and that there is no dogma and everything is questionable.Now, in this search for truth and knowledge scientists will necessarily explore down roads which are dead ends and the sooner they are identified as leading to nowhere the sooner we can dedicate our efforts to more productive roads of investigation.And that there are issues, like "free energy", which have pretty much been settled by the great majority of the STEM community and if you are going to go against that you *really* need to question your beliefs hard because chances are the world is right and you are wrong.And there are issues like the Hyperloop which while theoretically possible given unlimited funds they may come up against the realities of having to be economically feasible.In summary: think hard, be critical, look at all aspects of the issue, and if everybody else says you are wrong then chances are you are wrong and you are just missing critical parts.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:41:48 am
content: Quote from: soldar on July 24, 2019, 08:33:45 amYou better spend those 30 minutes well, give inspirational speech for *kids*. Debunking is negativism with intent to convince individuals *against* something, not inspire them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 05:35:25 amThat works until one of them starts to do critical thinking and asks you why multi-million dollar companies are investing millions in solar roads. They can't be that stupid and why aren't you working for these companies instead of putting videos on Youtube if you are so smart? If you listen carefully you can hear all your credibility being flushed down the drain at that moment.I'd stay away from debatable / political-ish topics and stick to basic science. If they need a preacher the kids can go to a church.Many years ago one of my school teachers was ranting against homeopathic medicine claiming the stuff they put in there was way too dilluted to have any effect. Needless to say that way of reasoning is completely flawed (which was immediately clear to me). I wish I knew about Fosgenic gas back then because I would have asked him how it was possible that a concentration of 50ppm could already be lethal if dilluting something down a lot takes all the effects away.

author: rt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:59:59 am
content: Since it's on the topic of Alternative Energy sources and bringing it back to real numbers, you might include a section on chemical energy.e.g.How much energy is there in a cup of petrol (e.g. 100mL) ? (probably best not to bring a cup of petrol into the class though!)What area of solar panels would be needed to produce the equivalent heating energy in one hour?What volume and mass of batteries would be required to store the equivalent energy?It might help them understand why producing and storing energy is hard and why chemical storage and transport of energy is historically quite popular!rt

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:04:32 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 amRight. It does not mean that subject of debunking video can't be mentioned. On contrary. You could talk about smart ways of doing green energy and dumb ways. You can make quiz out of solar roadways showing narrow road full of parked cars and asking why solar roofs are better idea than solar roads. I would avoid leaving impression of angry grumpy man like thunderf00t by any means

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:05:39 am
content: Do you expect the kids to already be interested in STEM, or just being "forced" to sit through something.If the latter, then one technique is to tell astoryabout a situation kidslike themselvescould find themselves in. Ask them what they think about the situation and what they would do.I've use that technique successfully with zealots pushing religion in my face. The pleasing result was that the kids became interested, animated, andlistened- before being ushered away by their Elders. No, I'm not going to go into details on this forum.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:13:59 am
content: One of my former professors asked the lecture hall, filled with hundreds of students across different engineering programs, why the students were there. The number one response was not for the betterment of the planet, humanity, etc. Many weren’t even centrally interested in engineering itself. The number one reason by far was financial security with relatively high pay in certain engineering areas (many were aiming at areas like petroleum industry due to this).Maybe few moments on job future? Make sure they know there's job security and money to be made for engineers, rapid growth in renewable energy and almost certainly going to continue.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:34:38 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 amIf you wish an explanation why you are wrong on that and your teacher is right I can connect you with my son who is biochemistry scientist and he will nicely explain it how it works.@EEVblogOn topic, Dave, I think you don't have much time for presentation so you can't go into depth here. I think Brumby summed it right too.On debunking, you definitely have to warn them of pseudoscience, but be PC (not your strength, I know :-)). No need to "attack" it, just factually state they are simply wrong, and that is what science is all about, to know which is which. And use that Sagan meme.Also, I think practicality is something that is deliberately left out of all the "green warriors" speeches.If we cannot afford solar panels, they will not save the world.. So it is important to go for renewable energy but be realistic too.And most of time, nobody speaks of the fact that greenest energy is the one that is saved. Energy efficient houses, cars, devices, not overheating in winter and over-cooling in summer etc etc..

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:59:05 am
content: On the topic of why renewable energy is important perhaps it is good to borrow facts and fun stuff from the Ted talks of prof. Hans Rosling, you know the guy from the "washing machine" talk and he has some great other talks about how much the global energy consumption is growing and impacts the world.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 10:06:31 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 amYou still have a concentration of 50ppm but with Homeopathic dillutions there is 1 molecule of the stuff in only one of the 10000 bottles, the rest has 0 molecules in them.So in order for that to work you have to believe and proof the memory effect of chemical atoms in solutions, you know the photography of the Japanese guy that shows watermolecules re-arranged depending on the source the water came from (industrial ground, church grounds, jungle, mountain, etc.)I am still waiting for that proof that if you bring one molecule of any substance in contact with a bottle of water, then let it sit for a day or so , remove the molecule the water has changed it structure.I have only seen this with intelligent specimen where the "knowledge" is transferred to other specimens and even after removing the original specimen the remaining specimens will act on this knowledge even if they have never seen proof of it.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 10:22:09 am
content: I would stay away from debunking anything in particular and just tell them to think critically. If certain ideas have been proposed over and over again and debunked by mainstream science you better think hard where you went wrong. And just because you can't see it does not mean there isn't a mistake in there. You just need to look harder.Another point I might make is that, in STEM, understanding things is being able to measure and quantify them with numbers. Numbers measure work, energy, etc. ... and your monthly electric bill.Aside: homeopathy and the "memory effect" are less than hogwash.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 10:29:16 am
content: Just thinking of another approach where you can use "Solar Freakin Roadways" in a constructive exercise...(1) Briefly outline what Solar Roadways panels physically look like, where they are placed and what their basic functionality is - generating electricity. Don't give too much away at the start.(2) Ask the question - What are the benefits from such a system? Have a prepared list yourself, but encourage answers from the group. Help them along the way if there are pauses.(3) Ask the question - What are the problems with such a system? Again, have a prepared list yourself, but, again, encourage answers from the group. Help them along the way if they need it.Try and resist stating that it is impractical. Leave it up to them to think about it and make up their own mind. If they ask you what you think, tell them - VERY briefly - and then invite them to show you if you are wrong. Tell them openly, that you would welcome being wrong - but they would need to back that up with solid data.Leave this discussion with the information that there has been some serious money invested in several trials around the world - provide some photos (if possible) - so there is interest in trying to develop alternative systems. Also include a comment that some ideas may appear to have a major problem and this might mean they can never work effectively - OR - it might be one ofthemthat comes up with a way to beat it.IT IS IMPORTANT that you do not spend more than a few minutes for this whole exercise (max 5). This is not meant to be the whole talk - just an example for discussion.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:04:23 am
content: Given the opportunity, I'd try to teach the kids what kinds of questions to ask of any energy project, ie. how much energy will it produce, and what are the downsides.Solar Roadways is an excellent example, because it's shameful that it was ever conceived, let alone installed. The numbers so obviously could never add up, anyone backing it was just declaring the fact that they just didn't understand basic arithmetic. If we're to progress in the area of energy supply and usage, well-intentioned but clueless people need to be weeded out at an early stage.We're struggling with a couple of basic social - not scientific - problems right now:a) there's a sense of panic about energy supply. Anything sold as "green" automatically gets public moral support - so there's money to be made with bad ideas.b) lack of scientific education means the public just don't have the ability to spot that something doesn't add up, and they don't know what questions to ask.Send them away with a link toSustainable Energy Without the Hot Air- it's by far the best impartial, quantitative discussion I've yet come across.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:04:37 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 24, 2019, 09:05:39 amIt's a the start of a week long build event for them. Guaranteed some/many won't give a rats arse.Doesn't matter if they are interested or not to begin with, my job is to help get them either interested or more interested.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:05:57 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 amOh FFS, not on an engineering forum, bugger off.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:06:43 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on July 24, 2019, 06:41:34 amYes. Physical practical examples are the go. I've had the 'pleasure' of giving specific-topic lectures/talks to kidsof that age, in special school-classes. The absolute DEFINITE for that age, isKeep It Simple !!Once, it was a talk/demo onphotographyto multiple classes over a few days. I THOUGHT I kept it quite simple,with printed documents with pictures, blackboard discussions, and simple equipment to play with.I even made a simple pin-hole camera with them, and made a primitive 'Dark-Room' in a lightproof store-room.ONE kid said to me after the first half hour... "Excuse me Mr. Sprigg, but I don't understand anything you are saying!!"So the next lessons were evenSimplerstill !! and then all was fine...Don't feel bad, when/if not everyone is 'in-tune' with you, or is able to personally Grasp things. They are ALL different !!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:07:45 am
content: Quote from: ChunkyPastaSauce on July 24, 2019, 09:13:59 amYes, I'll no doubt say something on jobs.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:08:50 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 amYes they are, because money, only one (technical illitaritte) politician is needed to initiate such a project, all advisors and engineers play along making a living.If it was worthwhile (investigating) putting solar panels inside a road surface commercial companies would be doing it already.Small example:The dutch power consumption is approx. 120.000.000.000 KWh/jr. with the sun puting down 1000 KWh/jr./m2120.000.000m2 or 120 Km2 receives enough energy over the year to power the country.Sadly, current pV systems are about 20% efficient, so 600 Km2 is needed. an area of 20 by 30 kilometers.Not very big in the scheme of things, and a good portion of that could be placed on existing buildings.No need to put them in roads (at 50 times the cost and with all the other drawbacks).The mayor challenge is to store the generated electricity, not only for overnight, but more importantly the exces producedduring the summer to use in the winter.For this hydrogen gas is looking promising thus far, and commercial companies are investing in it.Obviously wind-power also plays a mayor role in this.https://opwegmetwaterstof.nl/2019/06/20/rwe-en-innogy-overwegen-grote-waterstoffabriek-in-eemshaven/https://opwegmetwaterstof.nl/2019/07/04/grootste-groene-waterstofinstallatie-van-nederland/There are also mayor wind/solar/h2o projects planned at the north sea.Also, these days commercial scale pv costs about 40 cents per Wp installed (on existing ground) what generates 0,9 KWh/jr.selling that at 6 cent per KWh/jr. yields 5,4 cents per year or roi of under eight years, factor in maintenance and other overhead expenses and it is on the edge of being commercially lucrative, only a slight drop in pv costs could mean making big bucks for years.With scaling things up even more they might be there already, that would explain the mayor interest from many different commercial companies.Sorry about the offtopic.@Dave, think of just one of those kids is ending up in politics, what would he or she need to know?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:12:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 11:04:37 amMaybe you can touch on energy storage systems. Batteries, kinetic energy storage, potential energy storage (winch systems, trains up an incline, pumped hydro, ... ... springs), chemical storage, thermal mass, etc. Ask the question - howelsecan we store energy?Quote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:13:47 am
content: Quote from: soldar on July 24, 2019, 10:22:09 amYou can't just tell them to think critically, that will just go in one ear and out the other.But if you play the solar roadways promo and engage them to think about what could be wrong with that, then you have their brains engaged.Then you hit them with the South Korea solution of the panels above the road and bingo, they have learned something about critical thinking and practical engineering.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:15:16 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 24, 2019, 11:12:57 amYep, was already going to do that. Haven't started anything yet, but a good 15 minutes talking about many aspects of renewable energy and storage is warranted, as that's the focus of what they will be doing.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:16:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 08:51:13 amName one company that is demonstrably putting its own money into solar roads? Its easy to find people sucking on the public teat. Actual private investment is a whole different matter.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:16:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 11:13:47 amI like that approach.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:22:37 am
content: Quote from: coppice on July 24, 2019, 11:16:00 amDidn't Colas use their own money for Wattway?Although probably not hard to convince a huge road construction company that knows nothing about energy to invest in such a thing. It ticks the brownie environmental virtual signaling box, and they can write it off on tax.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:27:05 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 11:22:37 amYeah ... I wouldn't get too deep into that with the kids.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:47:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 11:22:37 amBut before you can write off things on tax you have to make a profit. If you pay zero tax then you make zero profit (for normal companies that is). And yes, AFAIK Colas put their own money into their Wattway. But lets not get into a discussion here.The point I want to make is that you'll need very solid reasoning to disqualify a technology if it doesn't conflict with laws of physics. And even then I don't think 13 year old kids have enough understanding of physics and math to dive really deep into (for example) preservation of energy. Explaining why the graphene heater from Kickstarter (which you did a video on) is a scam will be very hard.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:50:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 11:22:37 amThey extolled the fact that they had spent five years researching the design of solar roads. They did this with INES (French National Institute for Solar Energy). They skirt around the issue of how much each side paid. If they had really put serious money of their own into the work they would have made clear statements about their financial commitment to the work.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:53:37 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 11:47:44 amIn what country is that true? Its certainly not true in most western countries. Big corporations do all sorts of loss making things specifically because it works out well for tax breaks when bundled with the profits they make from other activities.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 11:58:57 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 11:47:44 amRubbish.QuoteSolar roadways iseasyto explain to people, even kids, why it's a stupid idea. I shouldn't have to explain to anyone on here why.Even 8yo Sagan came up with the understanding of conservation of energy and overunity on his own if you see my latest video on free energy.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 11:47:44 amErr, no. All expenses for R&D and other cost in running your business reduce your taxable income (i.e. written off) regardless of whether you make a profit or not.Sure you don't getallthe actually money back, but the expenses reduce your taxable income by that amount.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 24, 2019, 11:27:05 amThat goes without saying, any talk on that is not appropriate.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:20:51 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 11:58:57 amPerhaps you really should ask yourself why you have to explain. Meanwhile construction of new solar roadways continues world wide. So far nobody has shown me evidence which goes beyond the shadow of doubt that solar roadways can never work so I put solar roadways under 'undecided / see where it goes'.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 12:20:51 pmBetter put it other way around: when someone shows solar roadways with surface properties & lifetime no worse than ordinary asphalt AND positive ROI - then we talk.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:49:06 pm
content: Wow, this has degenerated into a Bitch-Fight...Definitely a case of pacive sleep and calming down...

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2019, 12:20:51 pmIsn't that a bunch of weasel words?Of course no one can show you evidence "evidence which goes beyond the shadow of doubt that solar roadways can never work". You can't prove negative statement of this sort. It's a logical fallacy to even ask for it.I can go even further. I can show you a hypothetical example that does work - A road going up a central European mountain at 30° facing south. All trees in the vicinity are cut down. Also it's closed for traffic.I gave you an example of a much better installation than roadways in another thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/french-solar-freakin-roadways-trial-results-are-in/msg2566764/#msg2566764

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:59:06 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on July 24, 2019, 12:49:06 pmI wouldn't be too worried.Dave is going to ignore the noise and use his own judgement. Nothing he hasn't had to deal with before.A lot of people forget the point of the thread is inspiring young high school kids and just want to preach their sermon over the top of anyone who challenges them.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:06:32 pm
content: Maybe try gear the presentation so be inclusive of girls.We need more woman in STEM.Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 05:09:46 amIt will be hard to get enough energy from a peltier to do much that would be visible using just your hand on one side.Normally you need to put ice on it or a blowtorch, or both.But you might be able to get it to work with just your hand heat using one of those ultra efficient precision DC brushed motors. The kind that are 3V but start rotating at like 60mV.Maybe in conjunction with a webcam and projector so they can see it.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:12:02 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on July 24, 2019, 01:06:32 pmCan you give us a GOOD example ?Wouldn't any girl that is potentially interested in STEM not be attracted to the same kind of presentation as a boy that is potentially interested in STEM ?How could a topic like renewable energy be gender specific ?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:13:57 pm
content: I'm not sure, just saying to consider it.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on July 24, 2019, 12:49:06 pmYou wish, but far from that. @nctnico is right that kids may not understand why it is dumb idea when it *does* indeed output some electricityRather than talking about feasibility & ROI specifics of public infrastructure, I think it is better to talk about electricity-related things they know, for example how to be "green" by wasting less energy/electricity in their household.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:17:07 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on July 24, 2019, 01:06:32 pmNo. I'm not sexist. Everyone gets a presentation devoid of anything gender related.QuoteMaybe some will like my talk and get inspired, who knows.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:21:48 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on July 24, 2019, 01:14:37 pmI think high school students are capable of understanding the basics problems such a system might have. The point is toask them to think about it, it's called engagement. And it's teaching them to question things.And I think solar roadways is bang on topic. And incredibly hyped renewable energy technology that was a dismal failure for all the obvious reasons.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:27:22 pm
content: Dave, this time they will need a talk, not a rant. Try to be inspirational. Demolishing some solar roads dreams won't achieve that, no matter those dreams are delusional or not.As for the talk theme, I'll ask some 13 yo what are they fascinated about, and build from there. If they say they are fascinated about video games, then be it: Use that theme as a reason to explain what a punch of science and technology miracles exist behind any game. Maybe a talk similar with this comic strip,and said in admiration about how it is done now, and with optimism for how great a future based on science and technology will be. It's about their own future, so make them dream big!Oh, and stay away of any kind of propaganda while doing the talk, don't attack any persons or any ideas, no matter the reasons. If you need to disagree, don't demolish, build.Good luck with the talk!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:31:55 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 24, 2019, 01:27:22 pmThe theme has already been defined.Deviation from that would make for an irrelevant exercise.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 01:21:48 pmIncredibly hyped renewable energy technology? Where exactly? On EEVblog channel, forum and similar bubbles of tech nerds?Last time I checked, it was not there.https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2018/12/30/6-renewable-energy-trends-to-watch-in-2019/

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:35:35 pm
content: I just tried out the peltier thing, it does work if you use the right parts.You need to use an ultra precision 3V dc motor (the kind that will rotated from like 60mV, I forget what they're called. Edit: 'Escap' that's it)And put it on a metal block for a heatsink to keep the bottom from warming up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:08:22 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 24, 2019, 01:27:22 pmI know that.QuoteYou are missing the point, but I won't spend more time trying to explain it.QuoteI think they'll see that as a lame attempt to appeal to them, kids aren't dumb.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:11:17 pm
content: Be prepared for the question: "how do I become rich and/or famous by choosing STEM"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:11:31 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on July 24, 2019, 01:34:46 pmThat's because it's a dead technology in 2019.http://lmgtfy.com/?q=forbes+solar+roadways

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:12:16 pm
content: Fix it for youQuote from: Kjelt on July 24, 2019, 02:11:17 pm

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:28:32 pm
content: as long as you don't say Elon Musk I am all for it

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 02:11:31 pmExactly. If it is dead - no need to talk about it in 2019QuoteYou are kidding right? Note that I referred toarticle"Renewable Energy Trends To Watch In 2019", publisher was not that relevant. Keywords were "trends"+"2018", not "forbes"Your search returns just usual noise from (most likely paid) article trail. Energy-related journals did not even write about those fraudsters of public funds.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:44:23 pm
content: For the demo, a toy you can give for free to each attendant.For sure they'll remember the toy for a long time, maybe some will visit your channel, too, because of it

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 03:53:19 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on July 24, 2019, 06:41:34 amYes! one of my most favourite parts of the museum of technology in munich is the cyclette in the renewables area, which will power up different appliances depending on how hard/fast you cycleGetting the scale of things is important... I bet they'll ask you about electric cars, make them notice that the power output of the engine in your car is several times the power needed to run and average house

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on July 24, 2019, 12:54:58 pmIndeed.To keep trying something that has never worked, without making any real breakthrough (but OTOH knowing from basic calculations that it's at best a very impractical idea) just because it looks interesting: that sounds more like alchemy than science to me.I also even wonder why anyone would find the idea interesting to begin with. There are just so many places you can put solar panels on. And if the reason is to avoid taking up free space to do that, first there are all the rooftops, but second, we should ask ourselves serious questions about wind turbines then. The greenies don't seem to care much about disfiguring nature with those horrors. So I just don't get it. But anyway... This is not going to help Dave here.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:17:59 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 24, 2019, 01:12:02 pmThat's a pretty "interesting" conundrum here.On one hand, some claim there is no significant difference between girls and boys, but then they still think we should take a different approach to get them interested in a given topic. So they are still discreetly admitting girls would get interested, but for different reasons than boys. Interesting.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:24:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 02:12:16 pmJokes aside, as a "Youtuber", you should probably try and show them many of the possible career paths and not talk about Youtube or very little. Otherwise they may actually get interested in becoming Youtubers much more so than anything else... Not that this is a bad thing per se, but if all future engineers are going to be Youtubers, the world's going to have a problem...

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:30:58 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 24, 2019, 10:06:31 amNah, but the fact that hot water freezes faster than cold water is related to how some of the thermal energy in water is in the molecular bonds between the oxygen and hydrogen atoms, according to the latest simulations. (In hot water, the bonds are longer and slightly weaker, and that makes the difference in freezing faster. Funnily enough, suggesting something like this as the mechanism ten years ago in a lunch table with a bunch of materials physicists made me the butt of a few jokes.)And they can form clathrates at suitable pressures (a couple of meters of water at sea level) and temperatures (close to freezing). But that's about the limit to watermolecules strangeness -- and they are, one of the hardest molecules to accurately simulate without going into quantum mechanics.I like Brumby's suggestion of energy storage systems, because there is lots of research and development to do there, in the loooong run.I'd also like to point out that both fission and fusion are also energy tech that needs decades of R&D, but will produce usable energy technology, and safe ones too if we do it right; and if we get to e.g. thorium fission, it is so abundant that it being technically non-renewable does not matter: about 120 trillion tons of it in earth's crust. Especially small-scale production (think container size) is something that militaries around the world are actively pursuing, but would also make a big difference to civilian populations. A large fraction of electricity generated is lost in long transmission lines.A thing like a flashlight with a supercap and a geared hand crank, to show how efficient current LEDs already are, then mention how even better LEDs are being researched right now, and this kind of research will continue for decades at least, since we're still so, so far from the theoretical maximum efficiencies.You know, to remind the kids that even though we have wonderful stuff right now, and even more wonderful stuff possibly coming, the possibilities of discovery are still very, very much open in the future for energy storage and light related fields.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 05:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 24, 2019, 05:17:59 pmImplying that presentation is somehow aimed at boys - that's "interesting". Dave already confirmed that he won't do it. Why so many discussions are derailed into preaching of social justice and feminism?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:50:55 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on July 24, 2019, 05:35:31 pmNothing wrong with a presentation at all, everyone likes a good presentation .I wouldn't say we should take a different approach to them. It's totally possible to have one approach that is inclusive to everyone.But it's also easy to give an unintended bias towards a persons own gender.You can see a common thread that, for guys the 'physical' leads into 'emotional'. A guy builds something, he see's it's awesome and it makes him happy.For girls it's the other way around, emotional leads into physical. A girl builds stuff when she is emotionally invested in the project.Take Simone Giertz or Physics Girl as examples. You can see that emotion is what drives them to make things or understand things.On average anyway, everyone is a different mix of course.Dave has an advantage here, because he is so enthusiastic about stuff.He will be more effective getting girls interested in the topic than someone not so enthusiastic.

author: wilmer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 10:47:30 pm
content: A practical development is LED, show them what a old conventional 50w light does and what a 50w led does. Then you can go to explain how new technology helps to save energy.Sent from my Nokia 3.1 using Tapatalk

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 12:11:56 am
content: Your obviously not going to build this without spending months on it,but it's a good thought experiment to show how awesome solar power is.The math says that you can make a carbon fiber quadcopter about 2meters by 2meters in size that can hover from solar power alone using 22% efficient solar panels.That is pretty damn cool, the light hitting the ground is enough to make something overcome gravity and fly! And this is with only 22% efficient panels!

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 12:22:57 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 25, 2019, 12:11:56 amNo. You buy Incandescent 50W lamp and 50W led lamp/floodlight, demonstrate that both consume same power but light output differs

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 12:25:17 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 24, 2019, 09:50:55 pmWith all the recent flurry of documentaries on TV last week due to the 50th anniversary of the Moon landing I saw a few things I had not been aware of. One of them was a woman, Poppy Northcutt, who apparently was the only woman in mission control for the Apollo 11 mission. Maybe others too. She was saying how she received many letters from girls inspired by seeing that a woman can do space stuff. Nichelle Nichols who played Uhura on Star Trek said she also received letters from black people and women more generally.I think your analysis aboutemotionis wrong. Just like electronics tends to appeal to a small minority of boys where it can't be explained simply by a broadphysicalappeal amongst all boys. Girls who want to develop an interest in STEM will do it for reasons not necessarily common to all girls. You have to allow for individual influences.Oh. and as for the talk Dave is giving. I can remember when I was about that age I sent away for a little free book of experiments from Eveready Batteries and one of the experiments was to generate Oxygen and Hydrogen from water by electrolysis. Cutting open batteries to get the carbon rods out wouldn't be encouraged these days in book aimed at young children. Maybe that would be an idea for a little experiment demonstration. I was at the Scienceworks museum here in Melbourne and they had such an experiment set up and enhanced to ignite the gases to make a nice BANG. But it was safely behind a barrier.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 12:44:59 am
content: I have more example/points to make but this thread is not the place for it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 09:35:39 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 24, 2019, 02:44:23 pmI like that idea. Wouldn't be hard to make a hundred of those. Was going to mention energy harvesting, so a practical demo would be cool.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 12:43:42 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2019, 09:35:39 amYes, very nice indeed. "Made in China cheap disks" are literally impossible to solder (their base), they are fragile & needs quite a finger strength to light the LED. I had much better results with old&used one. Most likely voltage/current is insufficient to reverse-breakdown LED, yet 2-pin bi-color LED could add to the effect. Each direction of the bend lights different color. Kinda nice touch telling thatfull bridge rectifierneeded

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 01:41:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 05:35:25 amYeah, but solar roadways is inpractical because of economics. Do you know what 13 yo doest like? Economics, mathematics etc..I would rather talk about the World Solar Challenge, on how Germany could power itself only by the sun (for a few hours in a year), show them pictures of surface mining. Oh, and show the water vapor leaving the coolant tower of power plants. That gets children all the time (even if it is a lie). Tell them that each MW of solar power installed creates average 5 jobs for people that otherwise would be unemployed.Or even better, take 25 tons of coal, dump it on the ground, and tell them that this is how much coal they can save if they install a system at home.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 02:19:54 pm
content: I don't know about NSW but here in Victoria new rules and guidelines in regards to E-waste recently came into play, as of the 1st of July some E-stuff now needs to be taken to a dedicated E-waste depot instead of being tossed into a wheelie bin. If you are short of material it might be a worth a quick mention or a reminder at least anyway.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 04:06:24 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 24, 2019, 01:27:22 pmI would start from that comic, and put some numbers on the energy consumption behind that apparently innocent action.How much energy we waste per hour of youtube video? How many servers have to produce heat - i.e. waste fueld, i.e. generate climate-changing emissions - for us to enjoy a Netflix movie? How much power is being used for bitcoin mining?It seems to me we are all in for proposing measures to curb climate change, but none of us is really ready to sacrifice our cozy way of life (at least in the most developed countries, or whatever is the politically correct way to call the biggest world polluters). So, it might be worth it to make the kids reflect on the fact that their generation will have to make sacrifices (using their current metric: kitten/porn videos, whatsapp messaging and facebook status checking).That should scare them enough to come up with an alternative energy source!EDIT: this is the first link I came up with:https://www.fastcompany.com/90346595/the-internets-youtube-habit-has-the-carbon-footprint-of-a-small-city

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 06:26:19 pm
content: Hi,From what I understood:You want to lecture 13 year old kid about STEM, especifically about renewable energy.I would do it like this:1) Explain what Energy is!2) Show them this (the live device - videos are boring!):- you can buy these cheap at eBay.3) Explain that converting fuel (coal, oil or gas) into energy will pollute the environment, as it produces CO2 and such fuel needs to be mined, leaving the sites in bad shape.4) Show them something like this:https://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/output-solar-cell- do it in front of them5) Explain them the relation U = V x A, explain how little energy a solar panel actually produces, explain other form of "green" energy: wind, waves, hydric6) Finish off with a joke:- ask them/explain them why this is not possibleRegards,Vitor

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 06:43:00 pm
content: Quote from: Sredni on July 25, 2019, 04:06:24 pmIn other words, to use the guilt and fear mantra? No. Leave that forms of mind control to religion or politics.Science and technology is suppose to be about mind opening, and the courage to explore uncharted territory.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 08:01:44 pm
content: "How much" is a critical question, IMHO, and one which isn't asked nearly often enough in this context.Kids have almost certainly been already told, over and over again, that <activity> "requires fossil fuels to be burned, which causes...." - but the chances are they've never seen anyquantitativeanalysis, and the idea of discriminating between energy uses which are and are NOT significant is almost taboo.It's fine to mention, say, the power needed to run a server when you watch a video online. If you can produce a realistic estimate of the power requirement for the data centre, and the proportion of its capacity required by that video, then you've got a reasonable way to assign a figure to the power need of that video.Crucially, show it in context, as a percentage of your total personal energy usage. Compare it directly to the power required to run your own PC, your TV, or your phone. Also compare it to the power needed to heat your home, cook your meals, and supply transport.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 08:54:30 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on July 25, 2019, 06:43:00 pmNo, instill responsibility.Know the consequences of your actions - or the actions of your future customers.Guilt is irrilevant: what matters is make the best use of the available resources - and to do that you need to know how many resources your product/strategy/way of life is using.You cannot make sensible decision without knowing that. Not anymore.QuoteEngineering is about making the optimal use of constrained resources. Be it money, time, material (water, in particular), or energy.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 08:59:18 pm
content: I like the idea of sparking imaginations and interest more, fostering the idea that science, technology, engineering, and mathematics is a true frontier with lots of stuff to discover and work on, with real world impact. Meaningful, interesting work; worth keeping in mind as a career.Not to give the kids nightmares about how the world will end unless they cut back on their energy consumption.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 09:40:27 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 25, 2019, 08:59:18 pmAgreed. And kids have very little awareness of action & consequence anyway.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 04:33:52 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on July 25, 2019, 08:01:44 pmYes, I was going to do this.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 11:06:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2019, 09:35:39 amOr... Get the KIDS to make them themselves !! Then they feel like they've achieved something !

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2019, 01:14:39 am
content: Anyone know where I can get some coal?Charcoal is easy to get of course, but not real coal it seems?

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2019, 06:50:15 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 30, 2019, 01:14:39 am"Lmgtfy", right?https://sydneycoalandcokesuppliers.epage.at/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 01:04:21 am
content: Quote from: ogden on July 25, 2019, 12:43:42 pmFYI, I had a bunch of new Murata ones that hardly worked at all, and yeah, almost impossible to solder to.Some cheapo ones form older gear worked better, but not impressive.Anyway, no talk of energy havenesting the presentation, so it's not not appropriate.Everyone gets a lump of dirty coal though!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2019, 11:49:52 pm
content: The talk went well, surprised at the excitement a lump of coal generate!They liked the solar roadways thing, and good engagement generallyThanks for the suggestions.No it wasn't recorded, sorry.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 01:48:21 am
content: They will have - very likely - never seen a piece of coal, so that will be a new experience in itself.However, I believe that this simple exercise on your part would have turned the phrase "coal-fired power stations" from something of which they only understood the last half into something with full meaning. IMHO, that, in itself, was probablythemost effective exercise you could have done to get the "engagement" and to establish a reference point from which to launch into exploration of alternative power creation.From the sounds of it - well done.Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2019, 11:49:52 pmI would have liked to have seen it - but with kids involved, I am not surprised.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 02:59:03 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 06, 2019, 01:48:21 amThe only recording is me doing an attempt at some sort of powerpoint rehearsal to see what would come out my mouth and how long it would take.The actual talk ended up significantly differently to my test, it's different when you are there and responding to reactions and feedback.The teachers were very impressed with the engagement and thought the coal was also a big hit.Anyone need a spare 19kg of coal?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 04:19:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2019, 02:59:03 amThrow it on the barbie?(Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll get my coat and exit quietly.)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 04:28:46 am
content: I was thinking that - but resisted the temptation to post.Actually, I might ask someone I know about an actual use.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 07:08:11 am
content: QuoteYou could have given it out to the kids to take home (it might piss off some parents, given that it's pretty dirty but still).And congrats on the successful presentation!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 07:19:41 am
content: Quote from: daqq on August 06, 2019, 07:08:11 amYou'd emphasize the dirty nature of coal. At least it's not uranium!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 07:48:48 am
content: Quote from: daqq on August 06, 2019, 07:08:11 amThey all got a (washed) piece to take.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 07:52:34 am
content: QuoteThat's great. Kids enjoy such mementos. When as a kid I was given a tour of a tools manufacturer I was given a few faulty parts out of their machining process. Nothing large, but I still have them

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2019, 07:58:16 am
content: I'm sure there is a local blacksmith who would have a use for it.