Why didn't the Segway revolutionize the way we walk around? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 03:04:19 pm
content: Seems like the ultimate American thing: a way to get around for people too lazy to walk. You could take it anywhere you could walk just about no stairs but all public places have wheel chair ramps and elevators.I think it was the price tag that made it "unrevolutionary". $4000 is what you can get a used car for. The average person can't afford a 4000$ toy. Maybe if it was $1000 it would be s popular as "hover boards" that don't hover unless the flames happen to be pointed down when it explodes.Dean Kaymen is a smart dude but he fucked up the launch. Dude is super cheap though he always gives a 12% tip when he goes out to eat and buy really cheap clothes. Sometimes stereo types are true. I have seen his bill. Still it seems actually less popular then when it started. Why did it flop?

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 03:21:35 pm
content: Wasn't called the iSegway so didn't have any cool factor for idiots who overpay for their phones.Here in the UK you were regarded as a bit of a prat if seen on one - they are/were considered very very uncool.Oh, and in the UK they aren't legal on either roads or pavements - they're only legal on private land.Edit:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/8267312/Segways-banned-from-pavements-and-roads-as-rider-fined-75.htmlIn essence: the judge ruled that Segways are motor vehicles and thus cannot be ridden on pavements, but are not licensed either, so are not allowed to go on roads.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 03:28:04 pm
content: I think a lot of people were disappointed. There was so much hype and speculation prior to its unveiling that the hype greatly surpassed the actual device. When it was unveiled, the disappointment was palpable. Then you tack on an ungodly high price tag, steep learning curve and regulatory hurdles that practically outlaw its use and you have a very expensive, over engineered door stop.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 03:38:27 pm
content: The infrastructure has been developed for walking, cars/buses, trains. A new mode of transport needs to integrate with the others. Lazy people have already found ways to avoid walking, and 99.99% of the people you see walking around did not get there by walking - they used another transport, usually a car.QuoteThe same was true for mobile phones, so that is not necessarily a stopper.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 03:46:25 pm
content: Beamin,The price was less relevant than the fact that they were inherently unsafe in the uses they were being proposed for. They are a classic case of willful blindness on the part of the would-be investor class, ignoring what's obvious to everybody else.Why don't we ask the company's last owner?"A British businessman who bought the Segway company less than a year ago died after riding one of the scooters off a cliff and into a river near his Yorkshire estate. Jim Heselden, known locally as Jimi, acquired the Segway company from its U.S. inventor Dean Kamen in December 2009.Sep 27, 2010"I've ridden them back in the day. They are very easy to learn but the feeling I got wasn't a good one.Did Mr. Heselden's untimely death show that they had safety problems, vividly? What do you think?

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 04:31:06 pm
content: The fact is, no one can predict which products will "take off" and which won't. There are many things regarded as dumb/pointless that turn into multi-billion industries. The only way to find out for sure is the hard way. Hyping products is inevitable, you are not going to get many investors if you go round saying "this is a dumb idea and will probably never make a profit".I think the safety angle is irrelevant, people fall off cliffs even when they are walking, or more recently taking selfies.

author: igendel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 04:44:09 pm
content: Not Segway per se, but the smaller and cheaper "hoverboard" has become very common for children where I live. As common as bikes, if not more.I think that the problem with this kind of vehicle is what to do with it once you get to your destination. No one figured out a "parking lot" equivalent or a chain lock for them, so it remains pretty much a toy.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 04:53:00 pm
content: I spent two hours being trained on and then riding one as part of a group of people who were trying them out. This included a lesson in riding them given by a professional trainer. I was exactly the kind of person they likely were targeting them at.As I said, I wasn't left feeling they were stable enough to be on the roads or sidewalks yet.And I wasn't alone in my opinion.However, you almost never read any critical reviews of them in the Bay Area media at that time.instead they were hyped because lots of people were investing in them hoping they would become the "next big thing" (tm). And common sense was abandoned at that point.Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on November 04, 2017, 04:31:06 pmThey were being pushed as a form of daily urban commuter transportation. That would occur on pedestrian pathways. If you have ever lived in a large city, accidents between motor vehicles and pedestrians are most likely to occur where the boundaries between areas allotted to these two quite different modes of locomotion are unclear. To let heavy motor vehicles share the sidewalk with people is nuts.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 04:57:52 pm
content: Quote from: igendel on November 04, 2017, 04:44:09 pmBingo! The vision for the Segway was pedestrians going to work, shopping, etc. on their Segway. But there was nothing to do with the device when you got there. The hoverboard riders can pick up their board and put it under an arm. But Segway riders have to leave a very expensive relatively portable device locked to a bike rack or something equally insecure. As pointed out previously crowded sidewalks wouldn't support it. If the sidewalks aren't crowded the trip distances are too long to make it appealing.Finally, in most of the world the weather makes a Segway trip suck for a significant number of days a year. It can't replace other transportation, it is just a fair weather alternative.Segways have succeeded in one small market segment - the street tour at tourist locations. Vacationers focus on good weather so that isn't a problem. And all of the trips are loops starting and ending at the stable.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 06:30:08 pm
content: Here in the UK, the few Segway owners there are have been hounded to hell by the cops if they ride them inanypublic place.Meanwhile the government has told the cops to ignore cyclists riding on the footway even though it is against the law to so do.I had thought that hoverboards could be a reasonably safe form of transport which could mingle with pedestrians if limited to low speeds. Bicycles are a far greater hazard in view of the much higher speeds they can reach (up to 40mph) plus the fact that the front wheel and handlebars take the brunt of any collision with a pedestrian, leaving the cyclist usually unhurt. That inclines cyclists to take risks. The hoverboard or Segway rider is going to feel the pain as much as the pedestrian they hit, so they are less likely to ride the things antisocially.As for being lazy, the politicos are now talking about encouraging the sale and hire of electric bicycles which need no licence or insurance, as 'green transport.' Considering these things are capable of at least 18mph under power, that makes a complete nonsense of banning the 12mph Segway.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 07:22:56 pm
content: Wow, this thread is a blast from the past. It would've been relevant, what, a decade ago?...I guess your amnesia kicked out another fragment of memory, huh?(Not teasing, I mean, that would bring on such a question, right?)Hmm, it was even longer than that, 2001. A decade and a half. The price still hasn't come down much either, huh. But they're not gone, they're still around, and the product line is a bit more diversified, so they can't be all that bad!Tim

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 07:30:43 pm
content: The number of drivers is plunging in developed countries due to the millennial generation not being able to afford cars.But a robotic two wheeled vehicle that steals pedestrian space for motor vehicles and uses a computer to balance itself is not any kind of solution for traffic congestion or declining affordability of automobiles. Motor scooters make far more sense because they can keep up with cars. More so than bicycles.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 08:29:45 pm
content: Could the fact that a Segway costs as much as a decent motorbike/scooter (which is way more useful) have something to do with it?

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 08:36:30 pm
content: A segway would be great in Cambridge (UK), takes up the same space as some of the cycles round here. Sadly an arcane law from 1854 means they are banned, although under an EU directive from a few years ago they should be permitted - but the powers that be in the UK have decided to ignore that.I find it amazing that the number of electric bikes I see that look like motor scooters are fine, despite their pedals often having been removed, no-one bats an eyelid at those.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2017, 09:10:01 pm
content: Motor bikes, ebikes and scooters are not legal to ride on sidewalks, when there is a street next to them, are they?The problem with these things is they wanted to allow them on sidewalks. They really are not appropriate for use on sidewalks. Nor are they appropriate sharing the streets with cars because they don't go fast enough.I used to ride my bike a great deal, and always do my best to stay off of sidewalks, unless there really is no alternative and then I try to get off my bike and walk it.This is because when I was maybe 20 I was visiting family in Santa Monica which has an outdoor mall. Right after I had spent some time admiring what was at the time the tiniest TV available - right across the street from that store, suddenly a girl who had been riding her bike rammed into a window and broke it. A maybe 12 year old girl rode her bicycle through a plate glass window and her face was quite cut up. It wasnt safety glass. It should have been but it wasn't. I was the first person to get to her and she was screaming, I put my hand over her worst cut while they called the ambulance. To stop the blood from just spurting out. What else could I do?So, I have a thing about riding bicycles on sidewalks.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 06:49:51 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on November 04, 2017, 09:10:01 pmTrue, but if pure bicycles are being allowed then it's hard for a cop to tell from a distance if it's an e-bike, they look too similar. So I imagine that many will just operate on footways regardless. They know it's illegal. They just don't care. If it was a scooter then it would be harder to conceal the fact that it's a motorbike. Plus, it would have a number. The e-bike, easy.When I was young I was hit by an illegal rider in a park and knocked unconscious. It was a hit and run job, which seems to be all too common where footway cycling collisions are concerned. Few years back I was hit when walking home. The cyclist came screaming round a corner and only just failed to stop, his handlebars running into my left arm, but not hard. At first I thought I'd gotten lucky with that one, but on noticing blood dripping found I had a nasty gash on my hand, caused by the brake lever. It was also hit and run.An elderly man in our street suffered a powerful blow to his back while walking, and was knocked out for some considerable time. He never saw his assailant. He was surprised that nothing had been stolen in spite of his having a fair amount of money on him. I said that a hit-and-run footway cyclist was a likely explanation. We never found out, but it does make sense. A mugger would have taken his valuables, after all. Plus, assailants don't usually strike at the (literal) back of the victim, it being quite hard to down someone that way with a punch or kick.The EU car design rules disallow anything on the front of a modern car which could worsen the injury of a pedestrian in a collision, for example a sharp hood ornament. Yet, bicycles are exempted from this requirement, and many of the brake lever pivots and so on are brutal objects to strike unprotected flesh with. This in spite of their operating in much closer proximity to vulnerable pedestrians. That makes no sense.Most of the proper cyclists round here are dead against footway cycling and never do so, but of course that doesn't stop the others.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:44:22 pm
content: Because Legs 1.0 work well, don't require storage, I'm carrying them around anyways, AND they conveniently fold under me!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 08:16:22 pm
content: Walking, especially on uneven terrain, is really good exercise for your brain.Among all animals, humans are among the most optimized for long distance locomotion, naturally.A human in top conditioncan outrun a horse in similarly top conditionin an endurance race.Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on November 05, 2017, 07:44:22 pm

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 10:59:37 pm
content: When we go on a hill walk the dogs always tire out first. Though, the reason that happens is that they run round and round us, impatient at our slow pace compared to theirs.The human is remarkably efficient at covering long distances though. Provided no great speed is needed.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 01:33:42 am
content: Some possible reasons why the Segway didn’t take off like the promoters had hoped:• No brakes!• No suspension• Relatively heavy to lift up a curb etc. that the small tires can’t negotiate• Distrust in the complex systems by the general population• Lack of local support / repair facilities• Cost vs. perceived benefit or usefulness

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 02:10:44 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on November 04, 2017, 07:22:56 pmPretty much. I am struggling with my Arduino txrx project I studied last week and a balun I was going to wire. Brain said C:/arduino/balun/del*.* Are you sure? <_ it never asks that part just goes ahead with the brain delete mod. And so its time to learn again which is why I just copy and paste C. That kind of crude memorization (programing syntax) is easily deleted and so I have given up trying to learn it multiple times.If I asked for C help on this forum you guys would have ctrl c ctrl v at the ready and be sick of it. Retrograde amnesia.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 04:57:33 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on November 04, 2017, 03:04:19 pmHave you seen big and non-portable a Segway is?You can't easily take it on a train or bus or throw it in a cab, and this is why if ailed as mans of transport. Micro scooters are infinitely more popular because they are small and easily portable.That's why it failed, it just doesn't fit the practicality needs of people's general lifestyles.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 11:55:15 am
content: I tried to lift one up and it wasn't going anywhere. Its mostly batteries and motor in there, so its very very heavy. Nobody was about to be lifting it up into any car trunks or up any front steps. If you don't have a garage for it you're out of luck.So, I said, no way, San Jose to the Segway! I like walking a lot so it wasn't much of a sacrifice.It would be nice to find a folding e-bike though, one I could take on buses and trains.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 12:29:29 pm
content: The Segway didn't solve a major problem, really.Additionally, because it's a motorized vehicle, in many places they are subject to the same restrictions as other motor vehicles. So here in Switzerland, for example, a Segway must have a license plate, and is allowed on the road only - not on sidewalks and other pedestrian zones.For me, what's far more sad than the market failure of the Segway is the failure of its cousin device, theiBOT, an electric wheelchair that could go from a regular 4-wheel mode to an upright 2-wheel balancing mode, allowing the occupant to be near eye level with standing people, as well as climb stairs. It really gave its users substantially more independence than traditional electric wheelchairs. But because insurers and/or medicaid wouldn't pay for it (it didn't even cost more, but was an unknown factor, whereas traditional electric wheelchairs were established tech), so sales were weak and the manufacturer folded a few years later.But wiki says that regulatory changes may allow it to come back, and Toyota is apparently showing interest in relaunching it. It'd be a huge boon for many wheelchair-bound people.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 12:46:36 pm
content: We already have a problem with cyclist breaking every single rule and getting killed by cars. And holding up traffic, going uphill 20kmh having a big truck and 50 cars stuck behind them, shouting "Look, I'm saving the enviroment. All these cars behind me are saving it also"We dont need to add to this problem with other means. Untrained, unlicensed people being put into situations, that they cannot handle, and they are not protected enough.There was a company in Prague, doing city sightseeing tours with a segway. They banned them. They were in the way, on the pavement, on the road and on the bicycle way.

author: 691175002
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 05:09:52 pm
content: There are a lot of obvious reasons why Segway failed as a product; I find the story of the company to be more interesting. The people working on and investing in the Segway genuinely believed they had a revolutionary product.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 05:33:28 pm
content: Every other project on Kickstarter says their product is revolutionary. Nothing new with that.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 07:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 06, 2017, 12:29:29 pmWhat this really means is, a megacorp (like Toyota) bought it up, or at least likes the idea enough to copy it, and lobby for that regulatory change. Likewise: the small corp didn't think to lobby for a change, or didn't have the capital to push it through.Tim

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 07:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on November 06, 2017, 07:03:28 pmMaybe, but the regulatory changes happened 2 years before Toyota expressing interest.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:08:32 am
content: But I've seen a lot of theseEven this once in a while

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 09:35:22 am
content: I usually dont post GIFs, because they are annoying. But: