Pens and papers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 04:06:56 am
content: I know a lot of us use CAD for drawings but it's still nice to be able to sketch things on paper. What are your favorite pens and papers for doing this. This isn't limited to electrical drawings...Brian

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 04:36:30 am
content: Oh man...I do love me Lamy AL-star fountain pens with Iroshizuku inks. I have a couple of Pentel Graphgear pencils. For paper, engineering pads the whole way. It's laid out so you can consistently label your notes and it has the subtle graph paper printed on the reverse side, so it's easier to read written notes and interspersed hand drawn plots vs regular graph paper.Lab notebooks that are intended to be a permanent record for inventions are also great if you want something that's hardbound.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 05:17:36 am
content: Pencil Pentel P205B -https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-Automatic-Pencil-Barrels-P205BP2-K6/dp/B000SBSAYEPaper Blank Index Cards, 5" x 8" -https://www.amazon.com/Oxford-Blank-Index-Cards-50/dp/B00006IFD6I rarely use pens, but when I do, I use plain generic pen from MUJI -https://www.muji.us/store/gel-ink-ballpoint-pen-cap-type-0-5mm-blue-black-4550002796921.htmlI like them a lot.I hate notebooks, since they don't ever go flat. And I don't like big size paper since it is hard to keep it in front of a keyboard.I use quite a bit of that paper. I'm not too worried about invention/patent documentation requirements and all used cards just go into a common box just in case I ever need them. For the record - I never ever needed them. But sometimes it is fun to go through the stack and see what I was working on.

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 06:57:15 am
content: +1 for MUJI penshttps://www.muji.com/au/products/cmdty/detail/4550002794118These are quite comfy, come in lots of colours, and are super easy to get replacement refills for

author: ChristofferB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 07:20:10 am
content: Gel ink rollers or felt tip is equally good for me, but I'm completely unable to use notebooks efficiently. Especially spiral bound ones, since I'm left handed.My uni bookstore used to have these A3 graph paper (5mm) pads. They were inconvenient at best to carry but man it was sweet being able to make every lecture into a single poster sized overview.

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 08:15:31 am
content: .

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 01:44:39 pm
content: For paper, I like "Clearprint" brand drafting vellum, especially with 10 lines per inch grid. Available in pads, with all normal American drafting sizes (8.5x11, 11x17, etc.).

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 05:05:52 pm
content: I'm somewhat partial to Pilot G-2 0.7 pens because they come in lots of colors and they feel right.So anyway, sometimes I print out schematics from Altium onto B-size (11x17) paper for the purpose of marking up comments and changes.To my dismay one pen after another stopped working after writing just a few words or crossing out a few parts. What happened?That Altium background gets printed, which renders as a very light gray. The dot particles are so small that the action of the pen writing on the paper releases the particles and they get trapped in the pen roller. This was a new printer. One of the older printers didn't have this problem, so something is up between the dot size, toner chemistry, adhesion, etc.I blame Altium just because.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 06:07:41 pm
content: For mechanical pencils - Zebra DelGuard 0.5https://www.zebrapen.com/product/delguard-mechanical-pencil/It's basically impossible to break a lead on them.For pens - Pilot V-Ball RT 05.https://www.pilotpen.eu/en/v-ball-rt-05-fine-tip.html?master_product_id=1266They never fail to work from the moment they touch the paper, something I value a lot. Unfortunately, they are fairly expensive and don't last long. Worth it anyway.I'm fine with printer paper.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 11:05:41 pm
content: I am quite liking the Kuru Toga self-sharpening pencil:https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ZIS7EYEAlthough my current one is a pink 0.7, then do various sizes, colours and materials. Essentially, whenever you write it rotates the lead so you don't get a flat spot.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 11:09:48 pm
content: I tried multiple self sharpening and "never break the lead" pencils, but they all are too bulky. I honestly prefer 50c BIC to any of those.Plus Pentel I use is symmetrical, so I can rotate it however I want anyway, so that feature is kind of strange to me.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2020, 11:26:56 pm
content: It's not that much bigger than a 'norm' one. In fact, it's more comfortable if your fingers are getting oldI agree with staying cheap. I go through phases of treating pens/pencils as art and trying different shapes and mechanisms (so long as they're cheap).Current phase is related: staple-less staplers. The mechanism on some is jolly clever and while they're all pretty similar they have differences that can, er, make a difference.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 12:01:22 am
content: I'm one of those people that feels more comfortable with a messy desk so I've got about 9 pencils of various type and length (i.e. age) scattered around and an open ream of printer paper that I take pages from to scribble on. I've also got about 4 pencil sharpeners and a Stanley knife for when I can't find a sharpener.

author: RandallMcRee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 01:37:47 am
content: Mechanical pencils--try this one (both 0.5mm and 0.7mm)!https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-GraphGear-Automatic-Drafting-PG525A/dp/B0006HXQXAAs for pens--just don't.Btw--true story--my office fired someone in the IT department. They made the mistake of letting him wander around to gather his stuff. Yep, the mechanical pencil shown above disappeared from my desk. Unfortunately, I was in a meeting.Hey, for paper I always have a pad of this:https://www.amazon.com/TOPS-Engineering-Computation-Punched-35500/dp/B001J87JTM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=engineering+paper&qid=1598407161&sr=8-1

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 02:01:00 am
content: Currently I have the following items that I use regularly:rOtring 600 .5 Mechanical Pencil;rOtring 600 Ballpoint Pen;Pentel Graphgear 1000 .7 Mechanical Pencil;Pentel Graphgear 1000 .7 Needlepoint Pen;Ohto Multi MF-20K3B .5/ Needlepoint Black/Needlepoint Red Multi PenAnd from all of these the one that really have more use out of it is the Ohto Multi. The weight is perfect, more to the tip because of the 3 mechanism of their functions, the Needlepoint are great to write in any kind of paper, they simply glide without any problem, kinda like a gel pen.The rOtring 600 is comfortable and have a balanced weight (mostly uniform, you can put the finger in the middle and the pencil will stay in equilibrium on your finger) but I can't recommend at the normal price other than a novelty or if you like the colour scheme of them (the black is textured instead of flat). If you can get on discount (sometimes Amazon have it) and you like go for it, you can't go wrong with it.The Pentel Graphgear is a very well regarded and known double knock mechanical pencil with a hybrid grip, metal and rubber. Heavier on the tip. you can't go wrong with it. Regarding the Neddlepoint pen, it is almost impossible to find online and when available in sites as eBay costs more than 150$. The reason it is because Pentel released this pen in a design of the mechanical pencil back in 2003 as a limited edition. Two kits exists, the .5/.5 needlepoint in black grip and the .7/.7 in blue. Neddlepoint recharges are still available to be sold, in stock, the pens are discontinued and only the mechanical pencils are sold. I was able to snatch a kit back in 2006 in Japan in .7 (.5 was the first to go and it is the rarest of them).Also I recommend as lead the Uni NanoDia in the hardness you like (I use HB but 2B is also great). This lead is very soft, and basically melts on paper, without feeling scratchy or look like is trying to fight your movement to write. Good resistance against smudging and easy to erase. Another alternative in terms of lead is the Pilot Neox in the same HB or 2B, very close to Uni NanoDia. Other alternative is the Pentel Ain Stein lead, although I find it a little scratchy to my tastes, but it works great if you practice lead rotation (rotating the mechanical pencil as you write, kinda like what the Uni Kuro Toga does automatically each time you lift the tip from the paper).As paper, I've been using loose leaf from Kokuyo, dotted and it is a very good paper to write on. I don't know if they have in normal non perforated A4, I buy B5. They have different kind of paper formulations, some harder than others, that translates in a different feeling when writing. Can't recommend other paper because I only have as experience the normal 80g/100g copy paper that have lots of formulations depending of the brand.For the future to add the collection, probably will try the Spoke 5, a machined aluminium or titanium mechanical pencil that uses the internals of the Pentel 20X series. Also in my sights are the Metaphysis mechanical pencil and ballpoint, mostly because of the design of it and the HMM mechanical pencil and ballpoint, from a design company in Taiwan.Other than that, Platinum is also a brand I want to try, as Kaweco too.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 03:03:00 am
content: Cheap-butt ChineseHero 329fountain pen (aParker 51knock-off) filled withLamy blue inkand A5 sized notebooks. Sometimes I use a uni-ball micro deluxe blue. I used to use a 0.7 mm Pentel P207, but I switched from graphite to ink a few decades ago.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 04:44:54 am
content: This was a gift from my children. Apparently a local guy hand crafts them. Writes nicely and the touchscreen knobby thing works well.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 05:26:02 am
content: That's... different

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 11:10:54 am
content: .

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 05:01:40 pm
content: I use rOtring mechanical pencils in 0.3, 0.5, and 0.7mm with Pentel Ain Stein 2B lead. For paper, I typically use green quadrille engineering paper in pads.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 05:44:16 pm
content: I have learned not to fall in love with pencils or papers since my career and hobby have far exceeded the life of several product lines. It is disappointing when after years of service a good instrument finally fails and you find that it is no longer made.That said I have been able to stick with 0.5 mm black lead mechanical pencils for a long time. when replacement time comes I usually have to cycle through a few tries to find something suitable.I like spiral notebooks for things that have to stick around for a while. But for the scratch work, notes and just general work I use the never ending supply of drafts/misprints/etc of printer paper. It accepts pencil well, usually has one completely clean side and saves a few trees.

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 07:57:45 pm
content: .

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 09:11:57 pm
content: A4 notebook with 5mm gridStaedtler pigment liner 0.3mm <- buy this and try it, you will never regret it.And sometimes Zebra F-301 Compact Ballpoint

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 10:26:17 pm
content: Quote from: RandallMcRee on August 26, 2020, 01:37:47 amWell I do prefer pens...I also like the TOPS ENgineering Graph Paper, but with the 10 lines per inch with the 10th line a bit darker/thicker -- pad form is best a I can't deal with spines or binders. I also tend to clip the pad into a clip board so I can write on my knee or where ever.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013CIJ20/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1Brian

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 11:49:05 pm
content: Quote from: emece67 on August 26, 2020, 11:10:54 amThe Hero 329 works surprisingly well. It's pretty reliable. It has a smooth nib, doesn't skip or scratch. And the ink flow is moderate, not wet, not dry. I've had no issues with leakages. For the price, it's worth a try.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 04:50:17 am
content: Regarding graph paper, you can always print your own if you can't find the one that exactly matches your desired format/colo(u)r. I couldn't find the exactly right lab book that worked for me (at least, not at an affordable price) so ran off my own. Benefit is that I can have A4 or A5 or whatever depending on whim (A5 is more useful for 'mobile' jotting).Just in case anyone fancies a roll-your-own, I've attached a 100-page A4 version (though, of course, any number can be printed). And an A5 slightly different version for comparison

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 05:50:09 am
content: Back when I was at uni, before the CAD days, I was introduced to the Staedtler clutch drafting pencil. Its still my everyday pencil.I tend to press hard when drawing, the 1mm mechanical pencil keeps breaking for me.

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 11:47:41 am
content: Paper - a square ruled book in 5mm graticules so to speak, A4 size and smaller A5 as well.Pencils - Staedtler mars micro 0.7mm, rotring 600 0.7 mm and a staedtler 1.3mm lead holder and a staedtler mars technico 2mm.I love the staedtler pencils. I bought the rotring to find out how it feels in hand.. but it is way heavy for normal, continued use. Staedtler ( all of the models mentioned above) are fairly light that I can write for a long time without fatigue. Also worth mentioning, These are my firsts for staedtler so to speak. I havent lost one, broke them or anything. The oldest is the mars micro which is now about 11 years old. Other than the rubber grip going slight smooth, works perfectly every time and is usually my goto pencil.Also, I found 0.7mm is the perfect balance between leads breaking and too heavy an impression on paper. I found 0.5mm breaks too easy and 0.99 and above are too abrasive on paper.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 05:10:07 pm
content: Quote from: jhalar on August 27, 2020, 05:50:09 amYes! I also used one of those all through my uni days. Less so now, but I still use my original occasionally.

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 06:04:59 pm
content: I'm always drawing or writing notes down on paper, mostly with mechanical pencils. I have a few of them.I tend to use 0.5mm the most, with HB or B leads. But for some sketches I use a mix of 0.3mmm HB (or H) and 0.5mm HB to 2B.I've been trying to discipline myself to draw or take notes of everything in a notebook, but I still can't help myself from drawing or taking notes on every piece of paper, envelope or something that comes to hand. In result, I collect lose papers, or lose them.EDIT: The mechanical pencils I use the most are probably Rotring 500 or 600, Pentel Graphgear 500 and Pilot S10EDIT2: Erasers are important also. For detail, I like the Tombow Mono Zero elastomer round and square as can be seen in a 3rd picture attached. Otherwise, Staedtler Mars plastic 528

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 06:28:34 pm
content: I also find myself taking notes and making drawings on random scraps of paper (usually printer paper taken from the printer's paper tray) rather than a lab notebook, which is almost always near to hand. I need to discipline myself to write everything in the notebook so I can find the information again when I need it.For erasers, I prefer Staedtler Mars white plastic erasers. I have to vacuum my lab and office at least once a week to get rid of the eraser crumbs!

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 11:48:04 pm
content: That is some collection, Mortymore!

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 12:49:51 am
content: Quote from: eti on August 28, 2020, 12:01:17 amMate how is that commentary related with the thread in question? Do you have anything valuable to add as your experience with mechanical pencils, pens and papers, then please add. If not please stop with the Off Topic.It is not the first time I see you replying with things totally unrelated with what is being discussed. Yes everyone have the right to their own opinion. But in this case you didn't add anything valued.You could had start your post like that, and then in the end say: "but enough off topic. My experience with mechanical pencils, pens and papers are with the following products: .........."That way you added something valuable instead of a post to steer away the conversation from the topic because just why not.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 12:53:34 am
content: Quote from: eti on August 28, 2020, 12:52:17 amDude, you are being obnoxious in multiple threads. What is your problem?And now you are deleting your messages too. Classy.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 05:27:49 am
content: Guys, just quit it. If you're going to be a dick, you're going to piss people off. If someone hurt your feelings, get over it, it's the internet.

author: AdrianFu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 05:46:46 am
content: Have a Lotring set of pens 0.1- 0.7. But unfortunately I stopped drawing for awhile due to health problems and ink dried in tips. So if someone can give me a good tip on how to free up the tips would appreciate it. The kit had everything I needed when I was at uni pens mechanical pencils set squares everything and was expensive. Noodles for the next monthno beer.Adrian

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 07:32:01 am
content: For erasers, my all time favorite for pencil is the Läufer PLAST-0120.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 08:58:50 am
content: QuoteSoaking. Coupled with a little manipulation, but the 0.35s are probably toast. When I used them professionally the only way I got to keep using them reliably was to, er, use them. And clean 'em out goodbeforethey dried if I stopped using them.(Hope you're trying to get them going because your health has improved!)

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 10:29:25 am
content: .

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 01:18:49 pm
content: Way back when I was a high school and university, I preferred a fountain pen, especially when solving mathematical problems. It gave the maths an image of beauty like poetry. Nothing nicer than a "QED" written using a fountain pen. In those days, you could buy left hand nibs that were slightly bent the left that allowed a more comfortable writing experience for the user. To my knowledge true left hand nibs are no longer available anywhere on the planet.To this day, I am an over-writer (write with a hook) even when using a pencil or a ballpoint pen, as are many of us older left-handers. The reason is when we were learning to write, if we wrote like a right-hander (an under-writer), we would smudge the ink with our hand as we were writing. The Israelis probably had the opposite problem.https://www.nibs.com/content/left-handed-writers

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 01:42:37 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on August 28, 2020, 01:18:49 pmOFF-TOPICAhh, so that's the reason. I have a friend that is able to write perfectly with both hands, and he is also a over-writer. Basically when I was in primary school, our teacher was one of that old school ones, and all left hand kids had to write with the right hand because "It is how it should be".She learned how to write with the right at school while secretly at home learning to write with her left. Basically if you see the same text written you will be hard pressed to find the difference. Well you probably can because you are a left hand writer, but I as a right hand one can't find a difference in her writing.She nowardays uses most the left hand but some times she uses the right one to not lose the practice. I on the other hand have one of the most hideous hand writings, so that I prefer to always just use a computer and print. When I write I can only write as if my hand was in CAPS LOCK all the time. For passwords and other important notes when distinction is needed, I have to understrike the letters that are lowercase. My objective until I die is to learn properly.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 04:43:46 pm
content: I did a quick Google search and found several vendors for left handed pens and for left handed nibs. If it is important to you they can be found, though prices are not low - on the order of $15 US. Some are NOS and some are newly manufactured. And as with everything, they may or may not be suitable to you. Those who love fountain pens have may foibles (excuse me, very important preferences) in the specs of a perfect nib. Stiffness, shape, details of the end shape and more, as well as the body they will fit. The favorite nib may no longer be available.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 10:35:42 pm
content: I wouldn't worry about it. I've written the same way for probably 50 years and it has never been a problem. Lower case are just smaller versions of upper case. Lately I've even been using the same underline trick for indicating caps when writing down passwords.Quote from: Black Phoenix on August 28, 2020, 01:42:37 pm

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2020, 02:20:38 am
content: I absolutely love my 0.5mm pencil from Rotring. I have it since my university years.For the paper, I go green. I use the back of the tons of pages that come with every DigiKey orders.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2020, 07:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 26, 2020, 05:01:40 pmThat's exactly the type of paper I prefer. When not available, standard quadrille paper is fine.Also, Dixon Ticonderoga #2 pencils!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2020, 04:22:57 am
content: I use that engineering paper, and if I can't find it I have an Excel spreadsheet that prints a faint grid on printer paper with my name and use that. It's thicker paper and can take erasing.Engineering clubs at university usually sell Eng paper for fundraising. I haven't seen the green stuff for sale in any store, who really buys drafting supplies nowadays.I have a dozen mechanical pencils and the best are knurled shanks Alvin DM05, Rotring 600. But drop one and the love affair is over, it's deadPentel 207 is a low cost workhorse.Pentel ZE22 /Berol QE-103 mechanical erasers are a great match with the pencils. They seem to be long obsoleted.Traveling on an airplane, the only way to do circuit design and a little math is with a pencil. A laptop is so much hassle and limited.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2020, 04:33:22 am
content: Ink Joy

author: dnwheeler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2020, 07:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on August 26, 2020, 09:11:57 pmI concur. The Zebra F-301 is the best general purpose ballpoint pen I've found in a long time. I use the standard (non-compact) version.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2020, 08:07:43 pm
content: I've found I do much better with pen and paper when it comes to taking and keeping notes and todo lists. I get SUPER picky about these things, but have found a system I like.Notebook:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BBNNSTU/It's big enough to hold the essentials but small enough that I can't go overboard stuffing it with supplies. The cool thing is the binding can be opened, so you can rearrange the pages, or add a custom combination of page types, or just remove full pages for archival. You can buy refills with the same openable binding, but the combs are a bit small. I use the pages out of these notebooks just because they're more economical:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BBNNSTU/I added the covers from one of them to the notebook so that I always have a solid surface to write against instead of the fabric cover. I keep lined pages in the front for to-do lists, grid paper in the middle for general sketching/notes, and more lined paper in the back for journal-type entries. Being able to rearrange pages is really nice and makes this system work quite well for me.I keep a pen and pencil (both Rotring 800) in the outside pen pockets, and the flap top has a clickable eraser, one highlighter, and a couple of extra pens and markers. I keep a small ruler, triangle, eraser shield, and some post-it flags as well. The Rotring 800s are very nice all-metal construction, and the entire tip of the mechanical pencil retracts to keep it and the notebook safe from damage. They often go on sale on Amazon for ~$25, which is still expensive, but much more palatable than their normal $60 price tag. Still need to get a better refill for the pen, the stock one is ok but not amazing. Here's the contents:Eraser:Uni E-Knock(Discontinued?)Backup pencil:Uni Shift Pipe LockRetractable mechanical pencilBackup pen:Zebra Sarasa Grandwith Signo refillAlt color pen: Pilot G-2 RedGeneric highlighterSharpiesEraser Shield3" 45/90 triangle6" Machinists scalePost-it flags.I'll probably eliminate the sharpies since I always have them around anyway, and I'd like to replace the ruler and triangle with nice plastic ones that will be less hard on the notebook, just haven't found ones I like yet.Just to prove it all fits nicely:Edit: So we have the "expandable thumbnail in message" options for attachments now, but they don't work?