My PV system at home, Chilean version - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 03:14:33 am
content: Because of the recent topic by tecman and another recent thread, I thought I would show my solar system. Well my system as it existed in 2010. I am currently building a frame for some new panels and my batteries have changed.When I moved to Chile, it was made clear to me that I would not be able to get a connection the town power. When I was here in 2009 (the experience that made me decide to move here) I was made very aware that the town power was of very poor quality and went off line regularly anyway. So the plan was to be totally off line from the crappy power here and be independent.The good thing about my location in Chile is that is one of the clearest places in the world. I am also at about 2500m altitude which means that about 1/4 of the atmosphere is below. This is THE ideal place for solar power.My system was purchased from a US company whilst I was still in Canada and shipped down ahead of me. I did not want to bother with the cost of shipping heavy batteries and the difficulties of dealing with hazardous materials shipping so I decided to get my batteries in Chile. My friend here was also looking to update his solar system so he had found what appeared to be a good deal on batteries here. It was not a good deal but I will provide details later in this post.My system consists of:Xantrex XW4548 4500watt inverter charger that outputs 220VACThis inverter meets all my foreseeable needs for power.Xantrex MPPT60-150 solar charge controllerThis charge controller was chosen because it interfaces with the inverter through a modified version of CANBUS.Midnite Solar breaker boxThis box combines breakers and all the connections needed to make a nice tidy and flexible setup for all the power connections.Kyocera 205 watt panels x9This was calculated to give me more than enough power from the sun available here. Calculating panel size versus battery size and energy consumption is not very straightforward. These panels turned out to be enough for all my power needs during the summer but if we have clouds here for a few days, and during winter, they fall behind in keeping my batteries up to charge. My original batteries were to be somewhere between 48V at 500AH to 600AH. I ended up with 750AH worth at this voltage so the panels now fall short during the "dark" times. 7 more panels are being installed. You can never have enough panels! The panels are connected in a 3x3 parallel series connection at this moment through a combiner box that has 3 DC breakers in it. The new setup will be 4x4 with 4 breakers. There are also lightning arrestors in the box.Xantrex AGSThis is a generator controller. When it was realized that my first bank of batteries were a scam, as is something very common in Chile, I needed a generator to keep up with my energy needs during the nght and this was purchased to help control the generator instead of me needing to run outside all the time to kill the generator when the batteries were full enough to last the night.Kipor KGE2500XI needed a generator to make up for the loss of battery capacity because of the dishonest battery reseller in Chile.Xantrex system control panel and a battery monitorHere you can see my control panel for the solar system, the battery monitor and the solar hot water controller.Exeltech 1100watt 120V inverterI had many tools that I brought with me that were 120V, as it was cheaper to buy an inverter to power these than it was to buy everything again.20 falsified solar storage batteriesThe company we purchased these from went as far as printing fake labels and providing fake charge and specification data sheets for these things. It turned out that they were old new stock relabeled and passed of as fresh stock. They lasted 4 months before dying. I even found the charts he had tried to foist of as proper spec charts by searching on the web. He stole the images from a generic tutorial on how batteries work. Needless to say they weren't for these batteries.I then paid to have 12 x 250AH batteries from Universal Battery in the US shipped here. They are AGM types and have been running for over a year without any problems. I don't have pictures of the setup as they are covered with some things as I re-arrange my shop.My work shop when it was cleanMy system supports a fridge running full time, a wireless router, 3 notebooks running full time, satellite receiver, 32" HD TV, lights, a network storage device, an electric bed warmer for my girlfriend and I during the winter, my workshop, and a water pump. I also run a desktop quadcore with 2 monitors at times needed. In the morning a coffee maker is run once and a toaster. When needed a 1kW microwave is used to reheat food or other cooking uses. I make tea regularly with my 1400W electric kettle too.When I want music or movies I have a 1kW 5.1 surround sound system with an additional 300W sub-woofer.So here, solar power works out very well when you can count on the sun 320 or more days out of the year. The high altitude also helps quite a bit.I will post more pictures when I get my 7new solar panels installed on the new frame and when I get my workshop clean again.

author: shadowless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 04:59:51 am
content: May i suggest that u can try using bedini charger to revive your banks of old batteries. I did managed to revive some old batteries using that technology.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 05:18:41 am
content: Quote from: shadowless on October 09, 2011, 04:59:51 amThank you for the thought but I had already looked at some these ideas and could not see anyone who could provide anything along the lines of real test results. It is difficult to get things in Chile sometimes and the cost and effort would probably outweigh anything that I might gain from these batteries.The idea behind de-sulphating batteries using any kind of frequency pulsing has been around quite a while but the reports I have seen have mainly been on the negative side.Four batteries were sent back the fraudster who claimed he had a de-sulphater and when we got them back, yes the batteries seemed to have a full charge by their voltage. When we went to use them they dropped immediately to junk levels again. So my conclusion is that either de-sulphater are at best random in their effect on different batteries or they actually don't do anything. I hate throwing good money after bad.Thank you for your helpful intentions.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 05:42:49 am
content: My system cost about $25000USD in the end, maybe a bit more. Because of my location I get what the panels are rated for and almost everyday. For other locations the panel requirements go up very quickly.For a great resource on solar power visit this forum:http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/index.php

author: tecman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 02:18:00 pm
content: Looks like you are pretty rural. What are you doing in Chile ? I see a lathe and a nice mill in the picture. Also do you live in the second container ?paul

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 03:21:30 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 09, 2011, 03:14:33 amWhat's your latitude?Are the days long enough in winter and does it ever snow enough to cover the panels?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 03:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: tecman on October 09, 2011, 02:18:00 pmI was in Chile, in the northern Atacama desert, in 2009, to do video for Discovery channel about the big astronomy projects going on here. I am also an amateur astronomer and educator for many years and decided I had enough of cloudy skies, snow, and my allergies in the spring in Canada. So I moved here, purchased land, and am working with my astronomer friend here with his astronomy tours and his remote operated telescopes from around the world. I am also continuing my multimedia business here. I am in a small pueblo named Solor near San Pedro de Atacama. San Pedro is THE tourist place in the north of Chile.The container with my shop was the container I shipped down with my things from Canada. The second container is more like a mobile home. It was my fastest way of having a house here. In a few years I will be building a nicer place.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 03:41:56 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on October 09, 2011, 03:21:30 pmI am at 22°57'9.44"S and 68°10'50.02"W if you want to see exactly where I am.One of the reasons I moved here, there is no snow! The coldest it gets in the winter at night is -12°C, but the day is still above 15°C. This is the driest desert in the world and that is why this is the best place in the world for sun, and stars!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2011, 04:43:22 pm
content: I thought I would post a little about how to size an off grid system.The number one thing to do is reduce any usage you can. Conservation will save big money in the end. Use a watt meter to look at all your loads and once you have a good idea of the total usage per day, it is time to think about the batteries first.The battery should be sized so as to keep them from getting discharged more than 50%. Different types of batteries will survive lower discharges better. AGM batteries are the best type for solar use as they will withstand very high discharge compared to wet cell types and also require zero maintenance but they are by far the most expensive type too. Wet cell batteries also out gas and lose water which happens even faster here in the driest desert. It is best to keep your batteries from going below 70% full charge and get them charged above 90% within a couple of days. If you live in an area where there could be clouds for days, then the battery bank will need to be bigger to survive that time, or a generator should be purchased to charge the batteries when there is no sun for days. Keep in mind that the battery AH rating is almost always specified at the 20 hour rate. This means that if your load is higher than the 20H rate that the batteries will have a lower capacity overall.Once you have decided your total usage per day, and how big the battery bank will need to be to remain above 50% to 70% charge during the night, it is time to decide on the panels needed. The minimum amount of watts needed for the panels in total is: twice the usage per day X 1.3 for the real power output of the panels compared to the rating X 1.1 for the charging efficiency of the average battery x a factor of how much sun you actually get during a day. The amount of sun you actually get during a day can be determined using information and calculators available online, or by measuring with a light meter for a few months. This is a slightly simplified formula but it gives you a good idea.The second part of the calculation for the panel requirements comes from the requirements of how lead acid batteries need to be charged. When any lead acid battery is being recharged it needs a minimum bulk charge current. This has to do with the electrolyte and stirring effects and moving enough charge to not just effect a layer of electrolyte touching the plates. The rule of thumb is that the batteries will need a minimum of 5-10% of their capacity rating to charge correctly. So if your first panel calculations say you need 1000 watts of panels and you end up with only 3% available of the needed current to charge the batteries at the correct rate, then you need to add more panels until you get up to at least 5%, 5/3x1000=1666. Basically you can never have too many panels but there is a limit to the input current that is safe for each battery type and size.The size of the inverter is determined by the peak power needed. Oversizing an inverter just in case will mean lower efficiencies at the lower usage so don't oversize the inverter just because you can.Oh yes, I forgot, I also weld using my system so a good inverter that will handle surges well is a must. The highest I have drawn from my inverter is probably around 3500 watts.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2011, 09:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 09, 2011, 03:41:56 pmWow, that's extreme compared to where I live, you go from our coldest night in 20 years to spring every winter day!QuoteMuch better than where I live where it's cloudy and rainy most of the time. You must burn really quickly, even in winter.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2011, 10:35:31 pm
content: Here in the summer it can be 45 in the day and 20 at night.Being a lilly white Canadian, yes I burn quickly if I do not take precautions. I do not get very dark, just very bright red!And seeing as you mention it, where do you live?

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2011, 05:35:10 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 09, 2011, 03:35:28 pmBeing an astrophotographer myself, I must say that I'm really jealous of you!Atacama dessert, the best place in the world for doing all kinds of astronomy...I hope to visit it someday....

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2011, 02:20:55 am
content: wow, very neat setup/lifestyle you have there! that nearby 360° photo via google earth is breathtaking!couple of questions... have you considered DC for any of your tools? i would think the inefficiencies and cost of the large dc/ac conversion would make converting non-dc compatible tools worth consideration, especially since you have such a short distance between your batts and your tools. also, do any of your DC compatible devices skip the ac inverter? ie: laptops, pc's, PoE, etc.that sucks your first battery bank was a scam... do you still have the cells? i can understand your reluctance to spend money on desulfators, but one can built for less than $10usd in parts. might be worth a shot to try one on a bad cell if you have the time, tools & skills...-sj

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2011, 03:50:54 pm
content: Quote from: flolic on October 11, 2011, 05:35:10 pmMy neighbor has lodges to rent with the option to rent a 45cm or 60cm dobsonian telescope plus eyepieces, or an equatorial mount with the option of a Takahashi f106 or a C11 in Hyperstar mode....I hope to see you here someday.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2011, 04:02:41 pm
content: Quote from: sonicj on October 12, 2011, 02:20:55 am

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2011, 04:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 12, 2011, 07:27:05 amI am in another city today, and don't have direct access to the links for the discovery videos. They were not full length videos, just short stories on a daily TV show on science in Canada. I will post the links when I get back.You can also see some of my video work athttp://almaobservatory.org/en/visuals/videos?start=3The parts where you see people being interviewed where the telescopes are, and some very short parts where you see the telescopes. Please keep in mind that I had nothing to do with the editing. I was only there as a cameraman and sound guy. Unfortunately they did not use my sound properly either, left channel lav mic, right boom mic for backup. They just left the two channels in stereo and it should have been mixed for mono from left channel.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2011, 10:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 12, 2011, 04:02:41 pmahh, i see. 4/0 is some thick stuff! did you crimp or solder or order them pre-made?Quote from: Lightages on October 12, 2011, 04:02:41 pmi got ya...the video looks very good. what camera/lens?so, do radio telescopes benefit from being away from population as much as optical telescopes?-sj

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2011, 06:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 10, 2011, 10:35:31 pmBedford, UK.Summer days average around the low 20s with a typical annual maximum of around 30. Winter days are around 6 degrees dropping near freezing overnight, with a typical annual minimum of -8, again it's variable sometimes doesn't get above freezing or it can get into the teens on mild winter days. It's generally pretty wet and overcast all year round.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 03:54:18 am
content: Quote from: sonicj on October 12, 2011, 10:26:21 pmFortunately I purchased them pre-made. The can be a pain to do correctly.Quote from: sonicj on October 12, 2011, 10:26:21 pmThere are two views to the interviews. The main view done with a Sony EX3. The second viewpoint is done with a Canon HF100. All the telescope shots were done with the EX3.Quote from: sonicj on October 12, 2011, 10:26:21 pmThe ALMA project is looking at wavelengths easily blocked by water vapour. So getting into the driest desert and getting as high as possible was necessary for this to work. And yes, with faint signals being looked at it is best to be as far as possible from other radio sources.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 03:59:55 am
content: Here are the other videos from Chile on astronomy that I did with Discovery Canada as requested.My camera work with Discovery channel can be seen at:http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/may-2009/daily-planet-may-05-2009/#clip168931starting at 09:10 in the videohttp://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/may-2009/daily-planet-may-06-2009/#clip169371starting at 00:40http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/may-2009/daily-planet-may-05-2009/#clip169917starting at 00:48