German Customs Experience: International Shipping from eBay or Online Sellers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: testmode
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 05:43:39 pm
content: Can anyone from Germany provide your experience in buying electronic items both big (bench equipments) and small (components, small circuits, cables, etc) from online sellers outside EU like eBay or AliExpress and having it shipped internationally to Germany? I've read pretty bad stories like packages getting stuck for many weeks in customs and/or high charges for tax. Some even say you'll have to pick up the items yourself from customs and show proof of invoice for tax calculation. We'll be moving to Germany soon and I'm not sure whether it would be wise to stack-up on items I buy regularly online before going until I get familiarize with the system/process over there.I am also wondering if I would get taxed when bringing my bench equipment (mainly for personal/hobby use) upon arriving Germany.Appreciate any inputs.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 05:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: testmode on February 20, 2017, 05:43:39 pmThere are usually exceptions for imports of personal belongings when moving to a country (Of course it'sallfor personal/hobby use isn't it) - you'll need to look into local regs etc. If you're using a moving/relocation company, they should be able to advise.

author: nugglix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 06:24:25 pm
content: *sigh*One of the darker corners of living in the EU.*Everything* goes through customs.This will take it's time.And yes, you may be asked to provide order/invoice if something is unclear.And yes, you need to pick it up if you've to pay tax/customs.And yes, you've to pay it then and there.There are exceptions.Low valued things - below 20 something € *including* shipment - is free of tax and customs.Above that and below something around 150€ you've to pay tax, 19% atm.Above 150€ you have to pay tax and customs.*And* for the real fun, there are things you're not allowed to import into the EU.At least for me it's been easy to avoid tax/customs when ordering things from Aliexpress.I just order less then the 20 something € from *one* shop. Thats all.And for further reference:http://www.zoll.de/EN/Home/home_node.htmlandhttp://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Postal_consignments_internet_order/Shipments-to-Germany/shipments_to_germany_node.htmlHave fun in Germany!

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 06:31:54 pm
content: Quote from: nugglix on February 20, 2017, 06:24:25 pmPlease, specially for customs Germany <> EU.I buy stuff on EBay and the like regularly and I never had to pick up the stuff, it always arrives at the given address.Apart from that I never had to pay taxes, but that is a mystery I don't want to resolve

author: nugglix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 06:43:48 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 20, 2017, 06:31:54 pmThe local habits might be different, but in general the you can't avoid it.You're importing things into the EU.This is the same in every EU member country.If you don't pay taxes... *shrug* your thing.If you try that here, you should be prepared for trouble.Except you're a soccer hero, a politician or simply rich...But this shows how complicated it is.There is simply no one rule that is valid anymore...And no sane person will read EU regulations prior to ordering something.Edit:Btw, I had to go to the customs office twice so far.That makes something around 1% of my Aliexpress orders.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 07:57:38 pm
content: Quote from: nugglix on February 20, 2017, 06:24:25 pmGermany in particular seems much worse than elsewhere.In the UK, you get a card through the door - you can either go pay & collect at post delivery office or (I think) pay online for later delivery.You NEVER have to show any documents or anything. it's all done on the declared value on the package and the card shows the amount payable.Germany appears fairly unique in apparently not believing sender's declaration.

author: nugglix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 08:18:49 pm
content: Yeah... Germany sucks.Unfortunately the word hasn't spread yet.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 09:00:10 pm
content: Not much that can be done about customs processing times and taxes.But trips to the customs office can be avoided if a copy of the invoice is attached to the outside of the package. The recipient will get a note about the tax due and can pick it up at the local post office.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 10:53:48 pm
content: Quote from: testmode on February 20, 2017, 05:43:39 pmAsk a lawyer because it will also depend on how long you plan to stay and what your visa says.

author: pelule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 11:32:52 pm
content: I hava a lot of experiance with German custom since many years (shipping from outside the EU like US and China) for goods from 2 EUR up to 10.000 EUR.Despite all that many stories and rumors I never had any issues so far, just to spend some time and miles on the highway.BEST (quite seldom / professional):the foreign seller fills custom declaration complete & correct and labels it OUTSITE of the package (custom does not need to open it).(so far that just happened just 4 times to me - to be clear - for shipements worth > 70 EUR INCLUDING freigth cost).That's the MAGIC limit, above you have to pay custom (~7%) and VAT (19%) in Germany.STANDARD / the reality:The foreign seller does not fills anything or does not label it at the outsite (that is no difference for the custom).In that case, as soon as the package arrives at the custom, you will get an invitation letter (~2 days later) to visit the local custom office and to do the declaration (DO NOT FORGET to have a printout of the invoice including the freigth cost). You get some time for, but you must be aware to pay a fee for each day over for stockholding at the custom.You have to go their, to open the package (for a visibly check) and to declare & pay custom and VAT (all done in ~10 minutes).Meanwhile I am very well know at the two local custom offices near to me. They even offer special suport like giving a stamped letter of confirmation in case of a damaged shipment (happened two times, once they even did the photos with their evidence cam).At the end a good example out of my experiances:Bought some used PONOMA cable and service manuals from a guy in the US via EBAY.I informed him in advance about the rules and limits of the Germany import and he split the shipments to have each under the limits - thus no custom and no VAT no problems - a great job.BRPeLuLe

author: testmode
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 04:59:34 pm
content: Thanks everyone for the inputs! The message is not exactly what I wanted to hear but I guess coming from Singapore, I've been spoiled by the efficiency and convenience of the process here. Nothing I can do at this point and I'll better prepare for this different reality there in Germany. On the bright side, this could finally pave the way for a possible cure of my TEA condition!Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 20, 2017, 05:57:51 pmI see what you did there, MikeYes, it isALLfor personal/hobby use. I call it passion, my wife calls it addiction!

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 08:11:09 pm
content: I'm assuming that there are no restrictions at all in Germany intra-EU, if not then forget what I'm about to say.Perhaps you can import to a more laissez faire country within the EU and then have it shipped intra-EU?

author: LazyJack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 08:31:13 pm
content: Well, it probably differs from country to country. In Hungary, they usually accept the value on the package and you pay when delivered.However since Chinese sellers happily label everything as Gift or some insanely low value, customs has the right to determine the real value by other means. I usually simply email them the eBay/paypal invoice and they are happy with that. However, they are not stupid, so if the invoice seems to be way off, they can simply come up with a value, and that would probably won't be nice for you.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:40:07 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 20, 2017, 07:57:38 pmI can confirm that in Finland they also pay almost no attention to the declared value on the package. The package is taken to customs based on size/x-ray/origin country. Only thing that might matter if declared value is higher than the minimum amount then they surely will take it to customs. I don't blame them for not believing it, I've ordered half a thousand packages from ebay and I can probably count the amount of packages with the correct declared amount with fingers in one hand...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 06:16:43 am
content: For Germany, my DHL Global Mail packages seem to be getting through better than they did with Australia Post, but still not enough data to get a good picture yet.But yes, German customs is pretty much the worst on the planet.

author: corn11
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 08:17:17 am
content: Quote from: pelule on February 20, 2017, 11:32:52 pmAs pelule said, but I've made the experience that it's also helpful to put a copy of the invoice or the payment receipt (stating the item and the shipping costs) in a bag at the outside of the package to avoid the trip to your local customs office (been there many times too).I don't know how it is in Singapore but in Germany the prices for used test gear on eBay are sometimes crazy compared to the US or Israel.So it might be cheaper to take some stuff with you.Under certain circumstances it is possible to avoid paying any custom fees or taxes on your personal belongings as long as they don't have a commercial character. There is an exemption for belongings which have a kind of commercial character. If you can prove to customs that you need them for your job they can also be imported without any fees or taxes when you move to the EU.This is hopefully the appropriate (you never know) customs info page:http://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Staying-in-Germany/Transferring-residence/transferring-residence_node.html

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:50:18 am
content: Buying low cost stuff is just annoying. Here where I live I have to travel one hour to the customs office, wait there for hours sometimes pay my fees and taxes and drive an hour back.So, for larger and more expensive items, I am only using Fedex and DHL Express and I have accounts with both of them to make all customs arrangements. This way I get the items fast and just pay the freight forwarder for the service and the taxes.Custom services in Germany are ridicules !

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 03:53:09 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 21, 2017, 08:11:09 pmThis is the exact way I do it all the time.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:28:27 pm
content: As a recipient don't let DHL declare your items.They automatically notify customs if your paket is over 1000€ and offer to declare it for you.Just don't do it. Dont let them act as a middle man.It's far easier and faster to get your paket from your local customs office. If you do it yourself, you can talk to your very helpfull customs officer, if anything is in doubt. If you are friendly and tell them about your shipment they even advise you how to declare it the least expensive (legal) way.

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:36:49 pm
content: Exact opposite in Slovakia. Always let your shipping company do it for you. You save much more money in terms of your time. Slovak custom office is rude, unfriendly and never show an interest in helping you.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:48:13 pm
content: Apart from the value/invoice/taxes thing, some people over on the SiFive forums have been having problems in Germany because the HiFive1 board doesn't have a CE certification logo on it. It's a low volume production run and the SoC on it is literally from an "engineering sample" wafer from TSMC.Quote from one German member: To my experience it is important that the board is classified as "printed circuit board" and also as "engineering sample". The customs officer must be convinced that it is an electronic component to be assembled into a product and not a "consumer product".

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 06:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 22, 2017, 06:16:43 amBrazil?

author: testmode
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 05:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: corn11 on February 22, 2017, 08:17:17 amUsed test gear is practically non-existent (or not that I know of) in the Singapore market. Good thing is, international shipping to Singapore is safe, reasonably-priced and efficient so I pretty much get most of my stuff from either China/HK, US or, a couple of times, Israel too.Quote from: corn11 on February 22, 2017, 08:17:17 amHmmmm...correct me if I'm wrong, but reading from the zoll.de "Transferring Residence" article, it seems that you could actually be taxed if the items are needed for the job:"<http://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Staying-in-Germany/Transferring-residence/transferring-residence_node.html>The following arenotseen as property being moved in connection with a transfer of residence:...articles for use in the exercise of a trade or profession, other than portable instruments of the applied or liberal arts."Quote from: EEVblog on February 22, 2017, 06:16:43 amOuch. Now you're making me doubt my decision of moving to Germany over this. This is potentially a life-changing situation, you know.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:17:19 pm
content: The German Zoll is known for sweating the small stuff. Don't worry too much for your case.You can declared all your test and measurement equipment as personal property when you move here. As long as you will not use this equipment to start a business and just use it in your home lab for pleasure, it falls under the category of personal property and will not cost you anything in taxes.How do I know? I have done this myself, when I moved back from the USA to Germany.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:23:45 pm
content: Quote from: testmode on February 23, 2017, 05:26:14 pmLike I said, it's for hobby use

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:26:31 pm
content: Quote from: razberik on February 22, 2017, 03:53:09 pmHas anyone in a different EU contry set up a forwarding service for German customers ? Seems like an opportunity if not.

author: corn11
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:43:11 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on February 23, 2017, 06:17:19 pmGlad to hear that it worked for you that way.I would have expected that they don't accept t&m gear as for personal use without any hassle especially if you've a larger pileThat's why I've pointed out the exemption but it seems like I've missed the attribute 'portable' in that case, sorryBut hey, every bit of kit is portable as long as you've a socket or a UPS around

author: pixeldoc81
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 07:09:22 pm
content: I'm odering a lot of Stuff like small(ish) (electronic) Stuff from China to Germany via ebay for years without any Problems with Custom.Most of the Stuff even get send to my Workplace (Business Address).But i know 1 or 2 people having "trouble" with Customs.Fingers crossed

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 07:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 23, 2017, 06:26:31 pmI dont know any. I use my friends and my parents. Example: Czech custom office is more cautious and strict and they stop even small items from China. Slovak custom office is more lax and they let go even expensive items from China.But it differs in terms of dealing with them when item is stopped. CZ office is more strict but there is no problem with them. SK office ? Terrible.In practice: when I buy some items from China with more significant value, I let it send to my parrents. When I buy something really valuable or something not from China, I let it send to CZ.One of my friend has austrian address, he say they let go everything from China.