Murphy’s Law with my OBD2 reader - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 09:07:29 pm
content: So last week in the midst of the crazy bomb cyclone of the American north east, my car decided for the first time ever to spring up a “Engine Light” (Honda CR-V 2011). At first I panicked thinking I have to immediately run to a mechanic, but then once I started reading up on it I found it could be one of a million different things, from as simple as a loose seal on a gas tank cover, to oxygen sensors and various other engine components.Not having any information at all I started doing all the simple checks I could, tightening the gas cap, checking for loose connections, checking for leaks or low levels of fluids, you know basic stuff. I drove the car around and didn’t notice much difference. It’s old and sluggish and has always been. But I decided to order an OBD2 reader to see what is going on just so when I show up at a mechanic I have some idea so they don’t try to sell me a bag of goods I didn’t ask for.Anyways, as luck would have it I received my OBD2 reader today in the mail from Amazon. I was just about to open it and try it out when I needed to run an errand and lo and behold… the freakin’ engine light reset itself!!!! It turned off!!!Freakin’ Murphy at it again!!! I didn’t even have a chance to open the package, just the mere presence of the OBD2 reader scared my car into submission!!!So I’m going to keep this OBD2 reader anyways but my question is, does it look at past codes? Is there any memory of past faults or any historical data stored in OBD2 if I hook it up now that the engine light is off? I would just like to know what it could have been. I don’t know if cars record or log these things. I guess I’m happy the engine light turned off and I need to go for a “Service B” anyways.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:18:42 pm
content: Almost certainly a 2011 car will have a history of past codes. You will need a guide to tell you what those hex codes actually mean.Jon

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:45:34 pm
content: Fixing the condition, typically doesnotreset the displayed code... at least, not for a while.I seem to recall having error codes that indicated misfires on a couple of cylinders. It would periodically come and go. I eventually figured out it was worn out spark plugs. They would only miss when the engine was under heavy loads or something. So if I didn't push it for a couple of weeks or so, it would reset itself.I don't think they have an OBD II on my current car.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 12:05:10 am
content: I had a problem with diesel car a long while ago (Peugeot 206 HDi).I was driving on the motorway at 70 mph and suddenly the car began to slow down and the check engine light came on. It would not go any faster than about 35 mph and the engine revs would not go past 2000 rpm. Not great especially given the heavy traffic and weather, so I pulled over as soon as I could.Restarted the car, MIL was still lit, but performance was restored. Merged back onto the motorway and a few minutes later again, the power cut out. So pulled over again, and restarted it.Made it home fine. And it was fine for two years after that.I pulled the codes after the incident, it was an EGR valve issue, but apparently the software can only detect if the EGR valve is faulty by looking at how the pressure changes when you go into low load. I think it was just a combination of conditions (high humidity and rain, low temperature?) combined with probably a sticky or briefly intermittent sensor all combining together to cause a fault condition and on that car, most engine faults lead to limp home mode being activated. There was no real reason to limit power, the fault would not kill the engine (at worst it would make the emissions a bit worse), but the software dictated the power must be low.I don't think I've ever had a car that's been 100% solid, even my most expensive cars. I've really gotten used to examining the VCDS fault logs for my current vehicle. They are complex machines and there is lots to go wrong.

author: GLouie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 02:34:09 am
content: Many of those vague warning lights can take a while to reset after correcting the problem. I once had a loose gas cap light on a 2007 Civic, and it took a few days to turn off after checking the cap. Annoying, but documented in the manual.I have heard that some modern OBDII faults can reset after so many start cycles, or it could be miles. May depend on the fault.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 03:17:40 am
content: Quote from: GLouie on December 31, 2022, 02:34:09 amThe OBDII reader can reset error codes. At least that's what I've found. I used one once to get my car though emissions testing. I don't remember what was wrong, but at first they said I had to come back in 4 weeks, because the car records that the faults were reset, lol. I also reset them the second time and the guy let me pass.I think it may have been an O2 sensor which I eventually climbed under the vehicle and fixed.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 11:35:07 am
content: hi the lights and codes are often intermittent, come and go randomly.OBD readers vary widely in capability and vehicle coverage. Code history and resetting are possible but may be hard or impossible on some OBD.On my 2007 Volvo I have meaningless and random ominous indicationsCheck engineEngine system service requiredTire pressure monitor system service requiredBut car runs fine, service finds nothing and eventually the "issues" disappear.Perhaps unreliable Sensors or CPU software or just another scam to get you to the ( very costly) dealer...Jon

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 12:39:41 pm
content: Stored code probably is for an emission system leak, probably a loose fuel cap leaking air, so the evap purge was unable to complete. Takes around 5 stop start cycles from cold for the ECU to decide the error has been fixed, and reset the lamp, but the error is still stored till erased, either by disconnecting battery for 15 minutes, or using a reader to reset it. The error takes 5 cycles of failing to show an error, so that is why it takes a few days to show up, and to reset.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 01:25:05 pm
content: @edy: Seems to me that the obvious thing to do is to connect that ODB2 reader to your car and see what it reports. Have you done that yet?

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 08:00:44 pm
content: Yeah, 'Periodic service due' (thanks, jonpaul), can happen, as the critical and recommended issues aren't distinguished, by the single 'Check Engine'.You might think a major issue like that would not last long, before manufacturers step in and get some kind of system feature, to distinguish things like:'wiper fluid low', vs 'engine overheat'.Supposed to be an 'open source' spec. you could look up, and get generic info. across many brands, or manufacturers. It's a matter of customer ease, and transparency, across the various markets.Some, build obdII in, reluctantly, and worse, presently teaching customers they might, maybe, just ignore the flakey seeming indicator, not a path towards reliability.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 08:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: RJHayward on December 31, 2022, 08:00:44 pmClearly the problem is they don't have enough processing power in cars to be able to distinguish the causes of problems.In reality, you would think one of the many displays in a car could indicate what is actually wrong. I believe at this point, it is only the very least expensive models in an automaker's line up that don't have at least a 7 inch display. I can only think thisisabout getting you into the car dealer.There are the standard codes which are part of the OBD II spec. But manufacturers also add their own, proprietary codes, which tend to not be so public. A bit of Internet searching will uncover their meaning.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 01:27:14 am
content: My car notified me of Service B a few weeks ago. It eventually showed 5% oil life left, then when it supposedly became 0 it started counting KM negative… look at attached image, with the “wrench sign” showing. Then when my engine light came on it also took out the anti slip traction control option.I checked my engine oil, it was low, I added more oil a couple weeks ago. My engine does slowly burn oil, it’s very light 0W20 synthetic for Honda CR-V engine. Anyways, everything reset a few days after the engine light went on. I never had a chance to plug in the OBD2 reader (see photos attached still in package).I’ll plug it in and report on the results.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 05:52:04 pm
content: Ok, code has been read and I’m trying to make sense of it. Again, please note the sequence of events over last few weeks.1. Oil life % was lowering and it recently when to 5% then 0, at which point the Service B notice goes on and a little yellow wrench icon displays.2. I added some oil myself just to keep me going as I also noticed the red oil little flicker once when I was driving. I checked the oil and indeed it was low. My engine does burn through the light 0W20 oil slowly over a few years so I periodically do have to add a bit. There is no obvious leak, I have no spots anywhere on my parking spot that I park consistently on indoors for years.3. About 1 week ago the MIL engine service light went on. I kept using my car and about 5-6 days later it turned off all by itself. I didn’t do anything at all except lift the hood, make sure I didn’t forget to tighten my oil cap, checked oil, checked gas cap, etc… this is all *before* I even hooked up the OBD2 reader.4. It’s been a few days now, no MIL light. Car starts and runs fine just like it did before and during the time the MIL light was on. I plugged in my OBD2 reader and have attached the following images:- initial screen showing status (1 page)- error code that triggered MIL (1 page)- snapshot of the condition at time of error (7 pages) - next post as it exceeds 10- I/M emissions test status since error cleared (3 pages) - next post as it exceeds 10Based on this data I came upon this info:https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/p0341-obd-ii-trouble-code-camshaft-position-sensor-circuit-range-performance-by-jay-saffordI am going to assume at this point that it was a temporary glitch and that it won’t happen again. Seems like it is likely a sensor or wiring issue but hopefully unlikely to actually be a mechanical flaw underlying what this sensor is actually looking for. Maybe just something when doing a cold start on a day after a weekend not driving, took a few more cranks to get going, and not so much oil (before I added some more)… If the timing belt, crank shaft position or actual mechanical issue still there it would have retained the MIL and probably caused some noticeable engine problems yet I am driving fine and light went off on it’s own. Any thoughts?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 05:58:31 pm
content: Here are the other pages I read from the ODB2 device, I believe it’s a snapshot (7 pages) of the engine conditions at time of the code trigger, and 3 pages of what I believe are emissions I/M data since the last error? I guess that tells you what systems were tested and passed? The 1st page of the snapshot is the last attachment even though I added it first.Here is more info:https://hondatheotherside.com/p0341-honda-dtc-code/Note that I *DID NOT* clear any codes or any data whatsoever using my OBD2 device. Everything is still there, I only used it to read stuff. Whatever happened the car did itself, I guess after it did more checks after several driving cycles and figured things were ok again. I believe if you wait long enough even the original error code will erase itself and I won’t be able to read it anymore with my OBD2 reader?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 06:22:59 pm
content: May be worth looking at the code set criteria for P0314 and it might give you some ideas. Also if your car is constantly burning oil have you considered going up a grade? I don't know what the tolerance of your engine is but remember the oil specified has to be able to start the car without excessive wear at the lowest operating temperature, for instance -25C when the oil viscosity is poor. If your car never experiences those temperatures due to location or because it's garaged then a thicker oil may be OK and limit the burn rate.

author: Pfriemler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 03:03:21 pm
content: I use several OBD2 diagnostics for my vehicles and can confirm, that the engine lamp stop to lit after a temporair failure does not reappear. Mostly it's about three engine cyclings (off/on). This is intended and normal, i.e. the failure may be gone long before the lamp stops.Whereas P1xxx codes are manufacturer specific, the P0xxx have to be identical. P0314 are ignition failure, unburned fuel may harm the cat.In my BMW E9x diesel I have two failures in storage without any harm to the machine, my mechanics advised me to leave as is. I may reset them, they reappear. As they are not critical to emission values, the engine lamp remains dark. Emission tests were passed always.Fun fact: my 2wheel BEV has OBD, too. A few days ago the lamp came only for one cycle, I managed to read the code, a P1xxx, varying from 02 sensor to motor coolant temperature failures - it was the battery management system reporting that is was to cool to charge the battery...

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 03:57:35 am
content: So it turns out my battery finally died today. It failed to crank the engine on. I had to run to work so I used my wife’s car and when I came back home I took the battery out and used a car battery charger to top it up. I managed to get it back into the vehicle and it started the engine. Only warning light that continues to be on as it was before is the Service B1 (oil change, oil filter, etc) maintenance code. Engine check MIL light still off.I did notice some difficulty cranking especially when it was colder a few weeks ago. I thought that if the temperature got warmer (as it is now in Toronto) that it resolve itself. I am pretty sure I didn’t leave any lights on and nothing was draining the battery. By the way it’s probably a number of years old… I’m sure more than 5 years now.I’m any case, I’m wondering if the fact that the battery was a bit low could have erroneously triggered that code about the cam sync sensor. Or… it could be there is a slow discharge of the battery through some corroded wire short that is draining the battery and could cause issues with the sensors. I’m going to get my mechanic to do the Service B1 anyways and switch out my battery (unless he thinks it can be reconditioned but it is fairly old) and see if there is anything else he can find.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 07:02:58 am
content: I have found a few time when the battery is weak that you can get a host of random errors from the car. Some of the computers are rather sensitive to low power exp when cranking to start.I have the issue of water getting into stuff which makes the computer not shut down so it keeps waking up and draining the battery over the week.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 09:38:45 am
content: Definitely a thing. I had an intermittent 12V system problem with my hybrid Golf, due to a high-resistance fuse. The fuse failed in such a way that the 12V from the battery would be unstable. (In VW's infinite wisdom, the 12V battery is in the boot, and the 200A cable with fuse hangs off the positive terminal. It's basically a spring, so any bumps at the back cause the fuse to experience additional stress.) I pulled about 120 errors from the VCDS port before the fuse was replaced, everything from "infotainment system CD player fault" to "ABS controller malfunction".

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 01:36:08 pm
content: So after charging up the battery last night and starting the car, this morning I woke up to a dead battery. I charged it up again just enough to start the car and then noticed the light at the back (for the hatchback trunk on a CR-V) was set to permanently “on”!!!So that’s probably what drained the battery overnight. I don’t know how long it has been that way. Anyways I managed to drive to work and brought all my charging gear. I didn’t disconnect the battery so we will see if there is still a drain somewhere or if I found the culprit.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 04:23:20 pm
content: 5W bulb (~450mA) @ 16 hours parked = 7.2AhA normal car battery should hold 50~120Ah so, unless the battery is totally knackered or was at a very low state of charge, it's probably not that.Though it is possible that keeping that light on prevents some of the CAN bus from going to sleep, and that could then pull 50-100W. Depends on whether the bulb is just running via a switch and a connection to "+12V_always" or if it goes back to the body module to do things like dim the bulb after it turns off or light it up when the vehicle is unlocked.Modern cars just seem to exude complexity for such trivial reasons.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 04:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: edy on January 02, 2023, 05:52:04 pmP0341 on Hondas can be caused by low oil pressure, which can be caused by low oil level (but usually only by a quite low oil level, like more than 1 quart low/lower than the low mark on the dipstick). There is a variable valve timing mechanism that is actuated via oil pressure and, if the ECU commands the timing to change and doesn't see the change reflected in the sensor, will set this code.Adding oil was a good corrective action.Monitoring the oil level somewhat more frequently in a car known to use/leak it is probably indicated.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 08:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: edy on January 04, 2023, 01:36:08 pmI expect an LED bulb replacement would make the battery survive more than just overnight.I've always found those switches to be other than intuitive. They typically are three position switches and there's no inherent logic to which position is which. Add in that many dome lights now have a delayed off and you can't even test the switch to see which position is which... not easily anyway.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 12:47:58 am
content: I have a feeling the trunk hatchback light was on for more than 1 night. As I mentioned before the sluggish cranking started at least a week ago and likely preceded the engine MIL code as it was doing it then too (which is why I thought maybe that triggered a false code). In any case, when I charged up the battery last night it was just enough to start the engine. The charger indicated “75%” charge but I don’t think it is a linear scale. Charger only has 5 lights. The first light is “connected”, as soon as it detects a battery it will then show the “25%” light and it has “50%”, “75%” and a final green “complete” light. So I bet it was a partial charge hence why it didn’t make it through the night even with that single light on.I was able to crank the engine and start it last night and then immediately turned off the car. It was then sitting again all night with that hatchback light on. Yes it’s a 3 position switch (always off, related to door opening/closing, and always on). When in the middle, it will turn on when you unlock or lock doors and usually will dim off when you start engine and drive or when you lock car after a minute will dim off. However it’s hard to notice it, especially if you lock car with remote and walk away.Anyways this morning since I couldn’t start the car I charged up my battery again for about 45 minutes. First 20 minutes brought it up to “50%”. Tried to crank car, didn’t start and battery fissled out. Then I charged battery more for another 25-30 minutes and it still only made it to “50%”… however it started the car this time. All that time I still didn’t notice the hatchback light on until finally after the car started!Drove to work (30 min away), parked whole day and started car no problem for the drive home. So I suspect that light was the culprit, and because the battery was only partially charged all this time it was enough to deplete it enough not to allow it to turn over the engine. Just to be sure I’m going to charge up the battery in my car for an extended period of time when I’m home and see if it ever gets to “complete”. I’ll keep an eye on things but I believe the battery still has life left in it, once I get it up to normal full charge.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 04:15:00 am
content: If a 45 minute charge didn't let the car start, I'm thinking the battery is near done. I've always been told a battery needs a 24 hour charge to really be "topped off properly", so charge it a couple of nights. I don't know how far your work is, but driving is not a great way to charge the battery.I hope this fixes your problem.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 01:39:46 pm
content: I took battery out of my car and now charging it (see photo). I got up to “50%” on the indicator yesterday and I was able to start the car to get to work 8am, then left work around 7pm no problem. Then started it again this morning around 8am again no problem. Now I’m at work and just plugged in the charger and it is showing “25%” initially but as I type this message I noticed it jumped up to “50%” already so maybe it was just detecting the state of the battery (see 2nd photo).I have it set to 6A but since I’m in no rush I will lower it to 2A charging and will leave it in whole day to see if it gets to “Completed” and at what point. I started it 8:30am. I’ll check date when I bought the battery if I can find it in my records somewhere. By the way, has anyone noticed the price of car batteries has gone up 50% or more? When I bought this one it was probably around $60-80 and now the cheapest is close to $120, with some closer to $200? Toronto, Canada… is this yet more pandemic/inflationary pricing going on?[ADDENDUM 1: According to my records I bought this battery at Walmart in Dec 2012for $87.97 along with the charger for $49.97]!!!![ADDENDUM 2: Just checked a few minutes ago, it’s a bit past 9am and it’s at “75%”!!!]

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 01:42:55 pm
content: One thing worth checking is the open circuit voltage.A good lead acid when charged at room temperature will show an OCV of around 12.5 - 12.7V. Test this about half an hour after taking it off the charger, but without having applied any load.If it shows an OCV below 12.2V it's probably dead.You can also get most good garages to do a battery test for very little or even free if they can sell you a new battery. I don't exactly know how these work but I presume it involves loading the battery somewhat and measuring the impedance. If the 'CCA' figure is less than half the original rating, the battery is probably life expired.Some batteries seem to last a ridiculously long time. The battery in my old 206 diesel was factory original, and it never had a particularly easy life, but was still starting the car almost 13 years later, even at -5C. And that's a diesel with glow plugs and a hard starting job.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 01:55:11 pm
content: If it was Murphy's law, it would have exploded, injuring several people in a day where ambulances were down, putting a whole building block in fire while the firefighters were 500miles away, having a local water supply shortage and dried nearby lakes."DAMN IT FIXED ITSELF, FECKING MURPHY'S!"

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 02:28:22 pm
content: I had battery issues with both our motors. In my case the fuel level sender decided it was going to be a pig and drained the battery overnight. Found the cause by using a thermal image on the fuse box, then checking each item associated with that. Running the battery flat seemed to annoy it and next winter it was on the blink. IME, once they fail or show a reluctance to operate transparently it's only a (short) matter of time until they catch you out at the worst moment.I fixed that kind of issue with a 'Portable Car Jump Starter' from Amazon. Deeply suspicious that these things can do what they claim, but it really does. Got me going again when I've left battery replacement too long, and it will start a car where trying to jump start from a second battery fails. Worthwhile getting one to shove in the boot ('trunk' for y'all) with the spare wheel, just in case. Impresses other drivers whose cars are unstartable when it gets them going too

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 03:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: edy on January 05, 2023, 01:39:46 pm$88 in 2012 is $114 today.Even modest annual inflation accumulated over a decade ends up being quite noticeable.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 06:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on January 05, 2023, 03:55:54 pmWow! I can’t believe it. I guess I’ve been living in a cave. It’s not even 10 years, that’s crazy. I have to check if my income has kept up but somehow I don’t think so.So a bit of history. The car is 2011 (bought it spring 2011) so you may be wondering why I bought a battery in Dec 2012 which is not even 2 years after I bought the new car. Surely the original battery was good? Yes it was. However around that time my son needed a CPAP machine and some other medical devices so I bought a battery and kept it trickle-charged so in case of a power-failure we would have something to run his equipment (I also have an DC/AC inverter).Turns out that a few years later, not sure when, my car’s original battery finally died. When I bought the extra battery for my son’s CPAP I made sure it would fit my car because eventually I knew I could have a spare. So when my original car battery died I put in this “backup” which was the emergency use one for the CPAP in case of power-failure. Meanwhile I didn’t buy another battery because by then my son grew old enough that he could manage and the CPAP machine wasn’t critical anymore. That also is why I got a regular car battery and not one of those deep discharge marine batteries with thicker lead plates that can be discharged and depleted further (which would last longer and not get damaged and may make more sense for power-failure inverter use cases).So while technically the battery is about 10 years old now, it’s really only been in the car (and under weather and other stresses) for much less than that but I can’t tell how long. 4-5 years? 7 years? I have no idea.As can be seen by the attached photo the battery managed to complete the charge before 10am this morning. When I checked it while it was charging and seconds after I pulled the charge clips off the terminals it was up around 12.89V but dropping. Once it got to the “complete” and left it like that for a few hours (it’s now 1pm) I just measured it and it’s a steady 12.66V right now. I assume the charger stopped supplying current and so the battery has settled. I’ll leave the battery disconnected completely from the charger and check the voltage again at the end of the workday before I put it back into the vehicle for the drive home, probably closer to 6-7pm.[ADDENDUM 1: Strangely enough I just measured it now, closer to 2pm and it’s at 13.08V.I’ll measure it every hour, I don’t know why it went up more since I disconnected it from the charger. Did it have some “momentum” going for ions still exchanging internally or was my meter messed up or not contacting the terminals properly before ??][ADDENDUM 2: Ok, so my meter is a cheap piece of garbage. When I have it on 20V range it tells me 13.06V, when I put it to 200V range it reads 19V and when I put it on 500V range it alternates between 12 and 13V reading. I don’t trust the 200V range setting at all. Seems the 20 and 500 ranges are closer to being accurate but anyways if I just keep reading on the 20V range (the next lower one is only 2V) at least I figure the comparison of values to see if it is falling will be ok even if absolute value is completely off. Until I get home I won’t have a better meter].[ADDENDUM 3: Since nothing posted after this reply I figure I’d put in another addendum. It’s now close to 7pm and measured it again and it is 12.63V. I don’t know what was going on with the multimeter before but clearly something was not right for it to measure >13V. Anyways, I’ll keep an eye on things and if I see things not stable I’ll just get another battery, but for now this one seems to be working well enough].[ADDENDUM 4: Tried multimeter again, showing 13.08V.I don’t know what’s going on with it. So last time it measured 12.63, before that 13.06, I am not doing anything different.]

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 04:39:08 pm
content: Hey everyone,It's been about 5 days and more testing on the battery. It cranks the car for a day or two, then refuses to start the car. I've brought the battery into an auto repair shop twice for testing on special machines, both times they are telling me cold-crank amps is in the high 200's to mid 300's (depending on it's state of charge) and that the battery is still OK and doesn't need to be changed (it's rated at 500).I've checked drain on battery when car off and parked, doors locked and all lights off by checking current using multimeter across negative battery terminal to negative connector lead and initially it jumps up to a couple A (likely computer and other components turning on) and then within a few seconds drops down to 0.1A or even less. So I don't believe anything is draining the battery in the car.Also, last night charged up battery and immediately after disconnecting from charger it was 12.8V. After a few minutes it settled to 12.6V. I then put it in the car, connected it and left it overnight. In the morning the battery was 12.1V but I was able to start the car. Drove to drop of kids at school and then to the mechanic, maybe 30 minutes driving.... When I got to the mechanic the battery was up around 12.4-12.5V. They tested it again on the machine, they said battery was ok. They used a "fancy" machine that checks individual cells also.At this point, I'm going to do the following to try and narrow down the flaw. It could either be battery, alternator not charging it, or some phantom power draw when car is off. I checked battery leads when car is running (with battery disconnected) to see what alternator is putting out and it was measuring 14.2-14.4V so alternator is delivering charge so I can't imagine it's that.So trouble-shooting steps:1. disconnect battery when car is parked and see if it still drains it- if my voltage drops while it is just sitting there doing nothing, maybe battery has some internal issue and for whatever reason all the machines are erroneously claiming it's still good2. connect battery across multimeter to keep eye on amps, then start pulling fuses one by one and seeing if there is a current draw change. However, as I mentioned normally current draw is very low even with all fuses in so I can't see that being the case.3. alternator charge not good enough, even if voltage reading is high on terminals? could it be encountering some other issue not providing enough current to the battery?And down the rabbit hole we go....

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 05:13:55 pm
content: How many miles on your CRV? Does it rattle a bit when started cold? Timing chain wear or other related parts are a common issue causing P0341 on higher mileage K24 engines. If you are using oil, keeping it full is a must--you should check it every fueling, just like the old days. The oil consumption may vary drastically under different conditions. Also, good 5W30 oil won't kill your old CRV engine--even in cold weather--and it may or may not help with consumption and the other issues.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 05:25:43 pm
content: My money is on the battery - needs replacing.If it were a current draw then the battery would be flat (and buggered), but it's not.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 05:49:30 pm
content: I reread your OP just to check a few things. This sounds very much like a bad connection, if the battery tests at the garages are to be believed, and I see no reason not to.When you say you checked for loose connections, did you check the main earth, and did you check the connections into the main fuse board which are usually not easily accessed without some disassembly?The main earth can appear to be well terminated, but the cable can be badly corroded and giving poor or intermittent connection. The main fuse boards on cars this modern can be problematical, there's so much controlled through relays by the various body control modules. My drivers side dipped beam is out atm, lamp is fine, wiring is fine, bloody relay in the main fuse board is the problem. One common enough issue is relay contacts welding closed, so lights can't be turned offAnyway, you could easily have a problem in the fuse/relay board. It's worth reseating everything as a first attempt

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 07:09:10 pm
content: Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.I just took the car out for a quick run from work to the bank (3 minutes away). I had the battery negative disconnected from the car negative lead during the entire whole morning (9:30am-1:30pm) since I parked at work (at 9:30am the battery was 12.43V after disconnecting). Checked again before starting the car (1:40pm), battery voltage was relatively stable at 12.38V.Started fine, drove to the bank, stayed there maybe 10 minutes and drove back to work and got back around 2:00pm. Drive each way probably less than 5 minutes. Once I parked at work again (2:00pm), I checked the battery after I disconnected it again at negative terminal only and was getting 12.52V. I've left it disconnected for now. I will check battery again when I finish work closer to 6-7pm. Again I am going to assume some "settling" is normal as it just stopped charging and will probably drop a bit over the next few hours before I leave work.I'm going to try this again over the next few days, always disconnecting the battery whenever I park, and keep checking the battery voltage. If it is charging when I am driving (which is suggested by the fact that it was 12.38V at 1:40pm and by the time I got back after driving at 2:00pm it was 12.52V) then the alternator must be doing the job. If the voltage remains stable when parked, that is good news for the battery. Remember, with the battery disconnected it only dropped from 12.42V to 12.38V over 4 hours this morning. I am also accounting that there may be measurement variability, temperature changes due to hot engine compartment, and "settling" after being charged while driving.Therefore the last possible culprit would be when the battery is connected to the car, probably some parasitic current draw in the vehicle when it is parked... perhaps not constant, it may be sporadic. Then I have to isolate what system is responsible for it. For now, I'll continue keeping the battery disconnected whenever parked and will make a log of voltage each time I connect and disconnect the battery (when starting and parking the car), along with times and temperatures, and post the results.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 07:27:59 pm
content: Quote from: edy on January 10, 2023, 07:09:10 pmWhy not directly measure that by starting the car and measuring the voltage at the battery terminals? If it's over around 13.8V at just above idle, you're probably good. (It should be closer to 14.2V at a normal RPM, but if it's noticeably above the resting voltage, it's charging [or offering charge at least].)You could have a failed diode in the alternator's rectifier or worn brushes that would allow partial operation but still indicate the need for an alternator replacement. Unfortunately, on the CR-V, they're in a somewhat inconvenient location. It's DIY-able, but is more annoying than most, especially the bottom bolt.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 07:34:03 pm
content: could it be as simple as your not driving the car long enough to replace the starting current.It used to be said it takes 20 minutes of average driving to replace the energy taken by the starting motor,longer if you had the headlights on,or windscreen wipers going

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 08:06:59 pm
content: Worth also checking the starter motor itself. When the starter motor in my 206 was going out, it would take sometimes 10 seconds to get the engine going. A brand new replacement had it running in one second. Combine that with a weak battery and perhaps it just doesn't have the oomph required to turn the engine over fast enough to guarantee start.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 03:11:58 pm
content: I checked the battery last night and this morning. When I parked the car again around 2pm yesterday it was at 12.52V (having just been driven). Left from work at around 7pm and before I hooked in the battery again it was at 12.39V (note: battery not connected to car from 2-7pm). Drove home arriving 7:28pm, checked battery and was 12.53V (having just been charged by alternator while driving). Unplugged battery again overnight, but checked in again at 10pm last night and it had settled to 12.40V after several hours.This morning checked battery and it was 12.31V (temperature -7C outside). Started fine, drove kid to school then work, about 40 minutes drive. Got to work and unplugged battery and it was 12.18V! Keep in mind that due to cold mornings, I start heater in car and have radio going and perhaps not driving long enough (and if battery is already "meh") then perhaps all these short trips and cold weather is contributing to the problem on top of an already questionable battery.My 2011 Honda CR-V has only 80,000km on it (50,000 miles) which is a joke for an almost 13 year old car. Most trips have been short, school and work are 10-15 minutes away. Only when I need to drop kids and then go to work I need to do a longer route. Combined with cold temperatures, running a bunch of things in the morning (heater/radio,etc) and a battery that is showing it's age, plus other factors that may be compounding an already compromised system takes it over the edge after several days like this.I found this post and going through some of the suggestions and testing, as well as comparing to the voltages I'm getting:https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-to-test-a-car-battery-with-a-multimeterI checked voltage on battery terminals when hooked in and car started, to see what alternator is doing. I'm getting 14.10-14.20V, especially if I rev up the engine a bit and everything is off. Once I start turning on a bunch of stuff (lights, heater, radio) it drops to 13.89V. But according to the article above, anything above 13.5V is still ok, so I don't believe alternator is necessarily to blame. As well, once the battery has a charge, the starter turns over the engine in less than 2 seconds.I also turned-over the car while trying to read battery voltage while starter was cranking. Keep in mind after all this testing with all accessories on while parking, the terminal voltage on battery had dipped to 11.93-12.00V but I was still able to turn-over the car and for a brief moment I could read the voltage went down to about 9V while starter was drawing power, but I can't be sure (my multimeter doesn't update very fast).When I left the car this morning at 9:04am it was reading 11.93V. I'll see what happens tonight. I left battery unhooked from the car and will test it again when I leave work. Trip home is only 10-15 minutes (4.5 miles city). Likely not enough to charge my battery much either, but I'll leave it unplugged again overnight and check again each morning.I'm suspecting it's just a weak old battery that coupled with perhaps some of the usage patterns and contributions from older alternator/starter is starting to dip below reliable cranking power necessary in the cold Canadian mornings, despite having been tested twice at Canadian Tire (using their "fancy" battery testing gear) claiming it's still "ok". Maybe I need to increase my trip time and reduce the use of interior accessories, heater, radio and lights completely to balance out.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 03:58:13 pm
content: Might it be easiest to just buy a new battery and see whether that takes care of it?Ideally you can come up with a reason why you always wanted a used battery to play with, e.g. for that small solar panel for your garden shed. Then it doesn’t hurt if it should turn out you bought the new battery prematurely.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 04:09:36 pm
content: Not familiar on failure modes for lead acid batteries, but is a high self discharge rate a possible failure? Say some kind of internal breakdown in the insulation between two cells?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 06:24:26 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on January 11, 2023, 04:09:36 pmThe insulation between cells is plastic; essentially the bottom half of the battery is a plastic moulding with another plastic moulded part glued/welded to the top once the electrodes are in. The individual cells sit in wells with the series bus bars penetrating the moulding at the top, above the electrolyte level.If you had a crack in the plastic wall between the cells I guess it could affect performance in a number of ways, depending on the severity. The thing is, how does this crack happen without obvious external damage? It's an interesting idea, but I think very unlikely.I'd still be checking the main earth strap resistance, while waggling it, and the main fuse/relay box connections.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2023, 06:26:02 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 11, 2023, 03:58:13 pmOk so I finally bit the bullet and got another battery (51R type)!I've been monitoring my existing battery over the past few days and it's always showing around 12.28-12.32V usually on standby, with battery disconnected at work and overnight, usually about 8-10 hour intervals after driving 20-30 minutes each time (just enough to trickle it back up to 12.4-12.5V before I turn the engine off again). I am able to crank the engine but I am worried about getting stranded. At least having another battery in the "boot" for now is a good idea.The battery voltage here shows it may be reaching the limits of cranking ability. Apparently newer batteries should be up in the 12.5-12.6V range in "standby". Certainly, my multimeter is not testing it under load. It may drop significantly once the starter is drawing power from it. If it is standing by at 12.3V then it is already compromised significantly. It's just that my car is still able to manage even that low (perhaps in another car or with different driving pattern it would have been considered "dead" long ago).Secondly, I have *NOT* yet tested the battery leaving it connected in the car overnight and at work. Leaving it connected will keep a few things still drawing power but that take only a few mA. Now I am starting to do that as well to see if it causes further drain, perhaps down to 12.1V or into 11V range for an extended period. Based on my previous tests I am not seeing much current draw when car is off. Nevertheless, if it drops just a bit lower it may be enough to take this mediocre barely-sufficient battery over the edge of the threshold and not allow me to crank the engine! I am not going to keep disconnecting my battery every time I drive the car.I've looked at various ground points, fuses all look in good shape. Testing connections to chassis, getting good volt measurements. When the battery-testing guys tell me battery still "ok" at ~280-340 CCA (of a 500 CCA-650 CCA rated battery) based on their machine, I don't trust it. I asked a few people and all of them tell me 7-8 years is considered good length of time out of a battery. A few other mechanics told me if the CCA's are getting that low it is on it's final legs.I haven't returned my old battery for the $20 recycling fee/deposit yet, although I have a few weeks to come back in with the receipt from the newly bought battery and get some money back. In the meantime I just want to try out a few more tests with it outside my car:1. I'll fully charge it in my external battery charger, test voltage2. I'll see if I can power a circuit, some 12V device or try using an inverter to power a small bulb.I'm curious to see how much this battery can still do before I give it back. At this point I don't care if I kill it if I'm bringing it back to recycle..... Unless you think I still can get some use out of it for something, then I'll keep it. But if it doesn't last long on a charge I don't want to throw out an easy $20. Any suggestions?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2023, 06:49:03 pm
content: Even once the old battery is as dead as a dead thing you will get some money for it at a scrapyard. Probably not as much as $20 though, unless it weighs upwards of 80 pounds.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2023, 06:53:23 pm
content: Yep, IME scrappies don't care about condition, just bung it on the scales and pay perpoundkilo. Last time I did this they couldn't even be bothered to take the batteries out of the large box I carted them in, so I got some cardboard weight thrown in as well

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2023, 07:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: edy on January 12, 2023, 06:26:02 pmThe K24 Honda engines are very easy to start and the Mitsuba PM gear reduction starters typically will tell you if they are going bad by making noise. So if your battery is struggling to crank your CR-V in anything other than Arctic temperatures, it is in pretty bad shape. Take the $20.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2023, 03:42:04 am
content: I bought the new battery last week (Jan 12) but did not actually install it. I drove around for almost the whole week on the old battery, car started ok but after 2-3 days (around Jan 15) it threw that same "Check Engine P0314" code immediately on startup. Seems like cranking an engine on a weak battery caused some misfire that the sensors picked up on. Anyways, I drove around until today with "Check Engine" light on but the car still starting (battery not completely dead) and driving fine. I decided I did enough testing, so I put in the new battery.... And immediately upon starting the car after installing the new battery the "Check Engine" light cleared!I'm not sure how the computer handles error code checking but I assume the moment the test completed ok, it cleared the code? I thought it takes a bunch of "ok" tests or driving cycles until it clears and therefore once a problem is detected, even when fixed it doesn't go away for a few days? Was it a coincidence that as soon as the new battery went in, the "Check Engine" light turned off?Anyways, I thought it was interesting that this entire thing started with a weak battery. Meanwhile, while all this was going on, my tire inflator "nipple" also broke so it wasn't able to inflate a slowly-leaking tire I've been monitoring over the past few years (because the "nipple" couldn't push on the valve pin on the tire to open it up). I fixed that by buying a cheap valve-less "extension" that quick-connects onto the tire. Then after I successfully inflated the tire, the next day it was almost flat... normally it would last a few months before needing inflation again. I ran to a tire shop and turns out it was a leak around the rim (cheap fix), most likely due to salt-corrosion or hitting some potholes. I hope this puts my car issues behind for a while. I intend to drive my 2011 Honda CR-V until they ban gasoline. It only has 80,000 km/50,000 miles on it. According to the Honda dealer website they should last until 250,000-300,000 miles. At this rate, it should get me to 2071!!! (it will outlast me!)

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2023, 07:12:12 am
content: I’d say you have a good shot. Our 2005 CR-V just turned over 225K miles at 80 mph in the middle of a 1500 Christmas road trip. Rust from New England salt will kill ours before the mechanicals go bad.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2023, 01:18:14 pm
content: I started more tests on my old battery now that it’s out of the vehicle and debating whether to return it for $20 or keep it as a portable/emergency energy source. I have a charger and 600W inverter and want to know what I can expect out of it (it’s a 51R size).I hooked up a 25W bulb for a few hours and it barely made a noticeable difference in voltage (battery went from 12V down to 11.8 or so). Then I plugged in my laptop (which no longer has a usable battery) so it ran only off the power supply which is rated 90W (19V x 4.74A max) but the inverter was telling me it was using 45W. That also lasted an hour or two and then the “E01” low voltage error appeared, battery was getting close to 10V.I unplugged the laptop and plugged in a 120V desk lamp (which uses an LED bulb for regular light socket) and the battery voltage recovered and it’s still going. So it can handle a few W for now for lightning, charging phones, etc. I’m going to charge up the battery again and try some more loads to see how long I can run it and how useful it would actually be for emergency or portable energy situations.One thing I noticed was that this setup will not be ideal for me to use in the field for radio reception on my laptop (using a RTL-SDR USB radio dongle/antenna). Any noise from power supply, whether plugged into wall or to inverter, introduces noise into my radio reception. When I run the laptop off the internal LiIon battery the noise floor is significantly lower and I can hear better signals on a long-wire strung between trees.[UPDATE:]It's been some time for me to do some more testing.... Charged up the battery fully to 12.5V, then started a timer and was able to power my older ASUS laptop (which has no battery) on a 19V power adapter for about 5 hours until the battery voltage dropped under the threshold of the inverter (~10.5V). So this battery is a keeper.Now time to keep an eye again on the new battery in the car and see if it's charging well enough as that could have been another factor.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 07:53:22 pm
content: Yesterday my hybrid Golf GTE flagged an error. This car is a bastion of reliability, mostly due to the Germans -- sorry that was sarcastic. It is throwing up a warning about the 12V battery needing service.I checked the battery with my diagnostics dongle and it reports 12Ah usable capacity out of 44Ah total. And the voltage drops to 11.67V without any load. About 14.5V while charging. (So perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to blame the Germans. The battery is made in Spain.)It seems to be an ordinary flooded lead acid battery so, I think that does indicate it is bad (5% state of charge according to a graph I found) - would others concur?Car still runs and drives fine and no other obvious errors are present but I did get one occasion at a roundabout where I pushed the 'go' pedal and the car took about 2 seconds to select the gear. I know the dual clutch gearboxes in these cars do depend on the 12V at significant current to actuate properly so I wonder if that was a sign.I wonder if EV batteries wear a bit quicker because they don't get starter cycles like a regular car. Certainly Tesla had a lot of problems with their earlier 12V systems. It might just be a limitation of lead acid batteries used here and a reason more manufacturers are using LiFePO4 or Li-Ion for the 12V system.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 07:57:41 pm
content: If it's over 4 years old and measuring that low, I'd replace it without any further diagnostics.When a gasoline car is "running" (which is ambiguous/complicated for a hybrid), the battery shouldn't have much effect on current supply for low voltage systems. With a hybrid, I can't draw as firm a conclusion, other than "well, I guess you'll find out when you replace the battery".

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 08:17:31 pm
content: QuoteScrap it. It will let you down when you least need to be let down. If the car is reporting it as problematic then it'sreallybuggered and I'm surprised you haven't had to jump start your car in the recent cold weather.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 08:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on February 09, 2023, 08:17:31 pmPresumably because it's an EV...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 09:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on February 09, 2023, 08:17:31 pmI think I'm agreed, it needs to be replaced. That said, all the 12V on these cars has to do is get the contactors to actuate in the main battery pack, then the DC-DC runs everything from that for normal use. In that sense, you can probably 'start' the car on as little as 10V across the battery... it only needs to supply about 10A (computer power, contactors, etc.) for a few seconds.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on February 09, 2023, 08:48:51 pmAh! I missed that bit - fixated on the normal one this thread is aboutEdit: no, the GTE is a proper car, not an EV.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:26:53 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on February 09, 2023, 10:06:40 pmIt may have a 'proper engine', but it lacks a starter, alternator and a starter battery and has much more in common with an EV than an ICE. It has a high-voltage battery (350V lithium-ion, 8.9kWh), motor-generator (80kW rated) and clutch packs which allow the electric motor to start the engine and use the engine as a generator when needed. The 12V battery is only 44Ah and rated for 200A CCA, which would be more appropriate in a 1.0L city car if it did need to start anything.Fun benefit of this is I know someone with a GTE in Norway, who started his car in -25C weather. It doesn't even blink - the engine starts absolutely immediately because the electric motor can put 10kW into the crankshaft to get it up to operating speed pronto (though I hope the oil works well when it does this.)

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:19:51 pm
content: OK, so holding on to being a proper car by the tips of itsfingesparkplugs. I won't ask if it has a trout pout.Can it start from the EV battery?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on February 09, 2023, 11:19:51 pmIt *only* starts the engine from the EV battery. If you mean can it drive on the EV battery, yes, it can do so for about 20-25 miles before that tiny battery is exhausted. (Only about 60% of the battery is usable capacity. The rest is reserved, probably for those -25C engine starts after sitting for months on end kind of scenarios.)Edit: Actually, sometimes starting the engine is more complicated. Since it is a parallel hybrid, the engine and motor are connected together, with a clutch separating the engine for when it is not needed (coasting, regen, pure-EV mode, etc.) Starting the car while stopped entails having the gearbox into a virtual 'neutral' with both clutches disengaged, turning the motor to the required speed and pulling in the engine clutch then adding fuel and spark. All happens very quickly and with very little bother. While moving, it is a bit more challenging, because you can't stop driving the wheels (parallel hybrid = only one motor, unlike a Prius which has two, or a Volt/Ampera where the engine and wheels are often not connected at all.) So, the electric motor adds in a small amount of torque and a precise balancing act between the clutch pulling in the engine and the electric motor adding the torque in is performed over the course of about 500ms. This again happens very seamlessly, and besides under hard acceleration, you don't notice the engine starting and providing torque. It happens all the time when doing lower speed driving on the engine when the computer determines which powertrain is best to use. Once the engine is running, the motor switches to a generator (usually, just to provide enough energy to keep the hybrid battery from discharging - it runs the air con, 12V, etc.) or blends in extra torque as needed to map in little troughs on the power/efficiency map.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 12:04:11 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 09, 2023, 10:26:53 pmIt's a hybrid, this is a distinctly separate category from either conventional or EV. It has pretty much all of the components of both, about the only thing missing is the separate starter motor and alternator since it uses a motor-generator for that. The "plug in" aspect just means it has a charger tacked on that allows charging the traction battery from the grid. Overall I would argue that a hybrid is closer to a conventional ICE vehicle than to a BEV, although it is a spectrum. The electric propulsion is only active at parking lot speeds, once you reach a certain speed the ICE fires up and it drives much like a conventional car.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 08:57:48 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 10, 2023, 12:04:11 amJust going to have to disagree here, because it can drive for 20 or more miles on electricity alone, and if you keep your driving within that range, you can 'never' use the petrol.So it's like a short range EV coupled to a petrol range extender that drives the wheels directly. The actual hybrid function of it is limited to regen braking and a small amount of map optimisation (unlike something like a Prius which can run the engine at a nearly completely independent speed to the wheels, with its e-CVT design.) The EV powertrain is very similar to the 1st generation e-Golf, the motor is different as it sits in the gearbox but is broadly a similar output power, and the battery pack uses cells from the e-Golf with additional cooling due to the higher C rates. The biggest difference between the PHEV and the EV besides the obvious engine is that the electric motor drives a 6-speed auto gearbox, just like the engine, which makes it one of the few electric cars that shifts gears (it does this even in electric mode.)Anyway, whilst the car is technically interesting, I'm more interested in whether my 12V battery is dead.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 11:52:30 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on February 09, 2023, 07:57:41 pmThe average life of modern car batteries is 3-5 years. Modern batteries tend to be smaller for weight savings and also modern charging systems are a lot more complicated than they used to be - most modern cars use "intelligent" charging to limit charging under engine load situations (fuel economy again). While it used to be a car would run without a battery once started, I'm not so sure that is the case for every design these days. My 2009 CRV had a current sensor at the main junction box that monitored current consumption and would limit charging unless voltage wasextremelylow.Point being - if the battery is over 4 years old and you're having trouble, it's wise to simply replace it.As for OBD2 issues, the P0341 on Honda indicates trouble with the VTC variable timing control. Though the code suggestion the sensor, more often the sensor is fine but is reporting trouble caused by either a stretched timing chain or some component of the VTEC system. You mention low oil - that can be a killer to timing chains that causes them to stretch just enough to effect the timing. It could also be why you feel the car is "sluggish". Unfortunately, this can be a complicated diagnoses and you have to go through all the variables (timing chain, VTEC oil pressure valve etc) and eliminate them one at a time until you identify the culprit.edit - if you get bored and want to watch some interesting auto repair diagnoses videos, check out Ivan at Pine Hollow Auto Diagnoses... While not "how to" videos, watching him go through troubleshooting steps is very educational, and he does a lot with OBD and oscopes. I'm pretty impressed by the Pico USB scope he uses.https://www.youtube.com/c/PineHollowAutoDiagnostics