UK TV Licence Scaremongering - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 01:56:21 pm
content: This really annoys me!I will openly admit I don't have a TV licence, I do not watch TV and do not have any form of antenna that can receive TV.I have no interest in it, I use YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Prime and others. IF I even get chance to watch anything.However the rules changed in September that you are no longer allowed to "Catch up on BBC's iPlayer" without a TV licence, ah that's a shame it was pretty useful while it lasted.But, this is what annoys me and sick of hearing off friends that I now need a licence because I own a TV/Phone/Computers/ETC that are "capable" of watching a live stream - Utter nonsense, some of thosedo not have a TV or watch TV but are paying for a licence.How they get away with this statement is beyond me, the use of English here makes one assume you need a licence for the following, just because they give "Examples" such as YouTube and Amazon Prime! which you do not need a licence for.They state you need a licence for watching an Online TV Service, then go on to give you that list of examples!, I am certain Netflix used to be listed there but looks like it has been removed.This is not a debate about whether the licence fee is worth it etc, I'm sure it is for those who watch TV. It's just the outright confusion to get people to take one out when not needed.Also so if someone decides to do a Live build of something on YouTube, or Dave goes Live, then I can't watch it according to these idiots.A friend told me there is some other Rule, how they enforce this I don't know (or whether its true), but if you watch a DVD of say a film or a TV series and it happens to be on air at the same time it's classed as simulcast and technically you need a licence to watch it if that happens!

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:11:14 pm
content: When don’t I need a TV Licence?You don’t need a TV Licence if you:never watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, andnever download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer – live, catch up or on demand.This could be on any device, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.If you only do the following, you don’t need a licence:Watch on demand or catch up programmes on services other than BBC iPlayer (and you also never watch live TV programmes on any channel, including on iPlayer)Watch S4C TV on demand or listen to radio on iPlayerStream, rent or buy movies from providers like Sky, Virgin Media, BT TV, Netflix or AmazonWatch DVDs, Blu-rays or videos,Play internet video clips through services like YouTube or to play video gamesI agree that it's very ambiguous and [almost deliberately] poorly worded. What counts as TV nowadays can be practically anything.I did buy a licence this month because of the iPlayer changes. I do enjoy some of their programmes, although shows like Horizon have become bad recently

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:13:35 pm
content: A license to watch TV? WTF? What a load of bull...stuff. Next thing you know you Brits will need a license and permission from the queen to take a crap. Perhaps Brexit is the least of your worries?

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:16:23 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 16, 2016, 02:11:14 pmIt is very ambiguous, which is wrong. I thought most things had to be in "Plain English" these days.I considered taking out a licence by direct debit per month, however if you do it that way you pay double the amount for the first x amount of months, then it goes to what it should be monthly, so they always have "6 months" extra of your money forever! Unless you cancel your licence or pass away. Guess not many people claim that 6 months back!

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff_Birt on September 16, 2016, 02:13:35 pmYou can think of the BBC being like HBO (subscription in lieu of no adverts in the middle of shows) but much more diverse and bigger.

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:19:44 pm
content: So you pay taxes to fund BBC and also need a license to watch it?

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff_Birt on September 16, 2016, 02:19:44 pmLicence fee is the tax. The BBC also has a commercial side that makes quite a bit of money too, hence why if you go to the BBC site from outside the UK there are banner ads.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff_Birt on September 16, 2016, 02:13:35 pmYeah if you don't get a licence you will be HOUNDED by people working on behalf of the TVL, they will send you lots of nasty letters, threaten you, keep knocking the door asking to come in, will spy through windows, letter boxes and use these "TV Detector Vans", also your neighbors will think you are a lesser class citizen. These people do not believe you don't watch TV.Some videos on YouTube about TV licencing if you want a laugh!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:25:03 pm
content: So this BBC is like "Public TV" here in the US? No commercials or advertising?

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:31:22 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 16, 2016, 02:25:03 pmThere are adverts for BBC products and TV licensing stuff but that's it. Within the UK, any way, and those adverts are only shown between shows. Some shows like Match of the Day may show a "reminder" to watch another programme done by the BBC but that's about it.Outside the UK it's just another commercial entity.

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 16, 2016, 02:22:02 pmSo there is NO other source of funding but other tax sources? I'm always skeptical about governments and taxes. In the USA individual states have 'lotteries' where the funds are supposed to go to 'education'. In Missouri there is a state law that n% of the state general revenue is supposed to go to education. What they do is move the lottery proceeds to the education fund and then don't transfer that amount from general fund to education. The net effect for education is zero, or near zero and the politicians now have more tax money to spend on their pet projects.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 02:43:32 pm
content: The BBC did get some for BBC World Service but that ended. Now it's Licence Fees and BBC's commercial arm (like showing Top Gear in the US or selling of the format for Top Gear USA/Aus etc; Doctor Who et al) for almost all.

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 03:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff_Birt on September 16, 2016, 02:13:35 pmThink of it another way. The licence fee enables you to watch TV programs and listen to radio programs without constant interruptions from adverts and messages for sponsors.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 03:42:25 pm
content: Quotethis bullshit is still law hereto enforce it, as per this year, they are forcing you to pay the tax through the electrical bill, regardless if you actually have a TV*it should found the public TV and while i am okay in principle, but those channels are the most filled with ads and over the years they eliminated all informative channels except for one. more like FOX channelsfun fact: years ago when UMTS came out and they launched the first phone where you could watch TV (on a 1.8" screen) they tried to pass a law where you should pay the tax two times*well you can receed by an self-certification but it's the principle.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 03:46:27 pm
content: Back in the day,we had the same type of licences in Oz--for both Radio & TV.You paid them at the Post Office.In the 1970s they were dropped,as the admin costs were such that there was very little resulting income.The ABC was supposed to be financed from the licences,but since that time its finance has come out of general taxation.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 03:55:00 pm
content: I dont have a problem with BBC asking for a subscription. I do have a problem with being told I can't watch other live TV broadcasters if I don't subscribe to them. It's a farcical situation.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 05:09:35 pm
content: Ask German forum members about TV taxes...In Portugal the TV tax is automatically linked to your electricity bill, so if you have electricity, you pay TV taxes, even if you don't own any TV or computer.This may seem outrageous, but actually I DO agree with this. TV as a medium has two important purposes:1) education2) informationYou (no referring to anyone in special) may never watch TV and not own any TV at all. BUT: let's imagine a war breaks out, a major nature disaster, a major disease, etc.: you would be thankful to be able to inform yourself in that moment! TV oder radio (tax applies generally to both) will then be very useful. And no, you could not just start to pay taxes THEN, because all the infrastructure had to be created and maintained.Another example: if you use the argument that you don't want to pay for TV/radio because you don't use it, then by logic, people not using cars, shouldn't pay for highways. People not using trains should not see part of their taxes being invested in railway, etc.What the real scandal is:1) The content of public TV/radio is often low and does not meet the two important criteria: education and information2) The tax should be openly applied to everybody, instead of creating COSTLY artifacts to APPARENTLY charge only the users: just take a percentage out of global income taxes to fund TV/radio and save the cost of having extra tax collection systems for TV/radio3) Technology-wise TV/radio is shifting to delivery formats which are NOT robust for times of crisis! While analogue transmissions can be received at great distances (granted, with noise), digital transmissions are less receivable at greater distances and you either receive them or you don't. Also, receivers are now massively complicated and consume more power.Finally: public TV/radio should stay away from IP based technology. Let the privates handle that and stick to education/information through wide coverage transmissions.Regards,Vitor

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 05:18:38 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 16, 2016, 02:22:02 pmYes, only those who have a TV or watch TV via the Internet (whether recorded or not) pay the TV tax.This may sound like bullshit to people in the US but I they have public service broadcasting paid for via general taxation so even those without a TV pay.The BBC doesn't have advertising but the UK also has channel 4 which is a public service broadcaster (government owned) but it's funded by commercials, not taxation.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 05:23:34 pm
content: The wording of that letter is insane.That said: I'm Spanish, I prefer not to know how much of my taxes is going to fund the disgrace of our public TV. If I had the option to pay20 euro a monthfor full BBC access I would happily do so. Some years I've spent more on BBC programmes on DVD, go figure.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 05:32:44 pm
content: Wasn't unfair British taxation one of the things that got the U.S. started? Maybe you guys need to revolt.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 05:36:03 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 16, 2016, 05:32:44 pmIf Brexit hasn't caused a revolt then nothing will

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 05:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 16, 2016, 05:09:35 pmThe german public TV jailed to german citizen for not paying the taxeshttp://www.thelocal.de/20160404/first-person-ever-jailed-for-public-broadcaster-feeToo the frenchs, that the silly stuff are contagiousQuote from: Bicurico on September 16, 2016, 05:09:35 pmI don't know that broadcast TV system you have Portugal , but the true is that the broadcast tdt system is a GREAT SHIT, when it is a hot , windy or rainy day the TV doesn't see. At change with the satelite at 90% of time sees fine

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 06:09:00 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 16, 2016, 05:32:44 pmHere , the unique that schedule revolts are the people the bad live (London riots 2011, Paris riots 2005). The honest people are screwed by the untouchable of the up(politicals) and of the down(criminals)

author: manzini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 06:10:28 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on September 16, 2016, 05:23:34 pmThe same history.At least the British can decide.I don't watch any "public" TV, but I pay indirectly every "public" channel". Every means central government along with 17 local governments: with their (mis)management, waste in political interested series and their propaganda/political spending content.I would pay onlyt 20€-40€ a month for something like the BBC.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 06:28:10 pm
content: Quote from: manzini on September 16, 2016, 06:10:28 pmYou calm that at Spain sooner or later will arrive of the hand the SGAE Gestapo

author: manzini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 06:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on September 16, 2016, 06:28:10 pmtruemaybe more appropriate adjective would bespanish copyright-inquisitor's

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2016, 11:33:03 pm
content: The wording is pretending to block out other service providers, whereas in fact "You will not need a TV licence to download or watch programmes on demand from other providers, such as YouTube, Netflix, ITV Hub, All 4 or Demand 5."**theguardian.comI used to like the BBC, but now it's a incestuous pit of ranting Marxist propaganda or mind numbing dross, even Radio4 has been twisted into an endless parade of radical feminism or obscure topics of ethnic interestIf Mark Zuckerburg ever went into television, he'd turn outexactlythe same content.What I really want is HBO streamed to my PC, but nobody wants to take my money, so I have to torrent everything instead...DAB radio is another annoyance, I don't want to buy crappy DAB radios, simply because somebody unknown thinks it's a good idea for crappy local radio to be given all the Analogue FM bandwidth.I like my Roberts radios, they have all worked for decades and will probably continue to work - these are changes that literallynobodyhas asked for.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 12:10:13 am
content: http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/tv-licence-types-and-costs-top2Apparently the ancient law of colour or black and white tv still applies.Heres the problem though, Regardless they want everyone paying the tv license like as if it is some sort of tax. The fee is yearly and is controlled by the govt (otherwise bbc will charge more). What makes this worse is that BBC programs have ads. If bbc programs didnt have ads than it might be better.The other thing is that for brits not only do you have to pay tv license but if you want to watch netflix you also have to pay for it too. So thats a lot more extra cost just for videos. Its not wonder UK's economy isnt so great even before Brexit. People had limited buying power with high cost of living and overpriced stuff.They cant legally force you to pay your tv license. As long as you can prove you dont have a tv and arent watching online they cant make you pay. They can bring you to court but if theres literally no tv in your home (not even an amazon tv box), and no history of you watching tv on your PC they cant make you pay. Essentially they pressure people who dont pay, always trying to find proof that they have a tv.The BBC already gets so much funding that they dont need tv licensing to survive. But its free money for them because the bbc is the "national" but privatised tv service.

author: smithnerd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 12:59:30 am
content: I think the license fee is superb value for money, especially compared with Sky, which appears to be wall-to-wall American crap, interspersed with adverts.I have to pay money to watch adverts? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.About 10 years ago, I did decide to stop watching TV for a couple of years, and I went through the barrage of threatening letters. Those stopped immediately after I had a visit from the TV licensing man. I had planned to be belligerent about it, particularly because of the tone of the letters, lack of warrant, etc. but he seemed like a nice chap, so I invited him in for a cup of tea and a quick game of hunt the TV.What pissed me off more than anything else about those letters, was the lack of freephone number or freepost address to reply. I was willing to make an effort to help them clean their database of my postcode, but why should I call a premium rate number or pay for a stamp? Particularly when the letters are so incredibly rude.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 04:59:28 am
content: Quote from: smithnerd on September 17, 2016, 12:59:30 amBut if you watch only Sky you also need to pay the license fee, right? I don't see how this is superb value, even by your definition.This is just another tax that the government imposes, just because it can. This is how governments work. The government class also need to eat.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 05:07:49 am
content: Finland also has a very similar and stupid fee model for the publicly funded TV.A few years ago it used to be so that you had to pay for a TV license if your household had a device capable of receiving TV broadcasts. This was "somewhat" enforced with inspectors (never saw one) who'd go from door to door asking if you had a TV (however they were not actual officials and you had no legal requirement to let them in).Now they've changed it so that every household will automatically pay the tax with yearly taxes. It is separate from other taxes (income tax etc.) because the public media YLE could not be considered an independent media if it was funded from taxes. Even though it is funded by taxes, just a different line on the tax form, logic? The tax is progressive and the highest bracket for people earning more than 80 k€/year is 140 €/year:https://www.vero.fi/en-US/Individuals/Payments/Public_broadcasting_tax

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 05:31:36 am
content: Quote from: Dago on September 17, 2016, 05:07:49 amYoutube is full with videos about BBC tax collectors. Must be the most despised job in the UK.https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bbc+license+goons

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 08:36:34 am
content: Quote from: alanb on September 16, 2016, 03:22:12 pmHowever they still advertise like crap for their own programs. The BBC have basically no programs worth watching, but the license fee supposedly does go towards other infrastructure for digital TV services for other non-BBC channels. The BBC also do get funding from normal taxes.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 08:54:56 am
content: Haven't had the guy come around yet looking to see if I have a TV set, but am waiting for the demand letter year end from the collection agency looking for the non payment. Will wait for the court date, just so I can go in there with the box with a plaque, and ask them to ask in person for the payment. Last time he knocked ( 15 years ago) I told him to take it and shove it where the sun does not shine. I had a valid licence, though due to the regular mess that TV Lic has historically had, they had the right postal address but had mangled the physical one, for the fifth year in a row.I pay for it, just because the closing process is deliberately made so difficult, and the crooked dealers do not ask for proof of a license when selling a TV set, and no TV inspector is going to go into one of our common "informal settlements" to check for that paper and come out alive.

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 10:21:02 am
content: Not had a TV for 25 years, and I to get annoyed by the tone of the 'reminder' letters. No option of 'no TV and don't want one' which does seem odd.Why don't I want one? The odd times I visit and the TV is on I can't cope with just how large and bright the screen is. May seem silly but you seem to have acres of primary colours run at eye watering brightness with the presenters heads larger than your own. See every wart and pimple.In fact I am saving up my TV viewing for when I get old, work through the 100 channels sitting in a nice comfy chair, at 75 we don't have to pay for th elicence anyway!

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:45:09 pm
content: Quote from: System Error Message on September 17, 2016, 12:10:13 amThis is incorrect and just proves what I posted originally about being misleading and a lot of scaremongering going on.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:57:12 pm
content: Quote from: woodchips on September 17, 2016, 10:21:02 amWhen I movedn into my new property, I received one of those letters and there was an option for no TV. At the time I didn't have a TV but intended to get one so I didn't bother responding or paying, until I got a TV.I agree, those letters are annoying and rude but I suppose they need to scare people who do have a TV/watch on the Internet and don't pay, into paying.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 05:07:04 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 03:15:27 pmThe TV licence is normally paid via direct debit which I doubt costs much to administer.General taxation would be less fair as everyone would then pay, even if they don't watch TV.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:01:25 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on September 17, 2016, 01:57:12 pmThe internet part is funny. If a web site wants to charge for services it doesn't need government imposed tax in order to do that. This is how the rest of the internet works.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 03:07:17 pmHere , we have the SGAE GESTAPO that go to the shop, pub, weddings for searching if the owners play music , radio or TV that has copyright . If they find any issue , they begin to extor or to threat with judicial demands if you don't pay THE REVOLUTIONARY TAXES .But let's that they use the police for doing illegal searching at private home , that is a democratic. aberration"The democracy is the political system on which , when somebody knocks at the street door to six at morning , you know that is the milkman"- Winston Churchill

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 07:05:52 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 06:49:32 pmFunny thing is I am listening to CBC Quirks while reading this........ It is a lot better thanmostall of the junk on radio and TV here.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 07:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 06:49:32 pmThat's not always the case. Take health care for example, the health system in the US is private and they spend more on healthcare than anywhere else in the world, yet they're way behind countries with public healthcare where they pay less.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capitahttp://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/QuoteNonsense. Paying my TV license was easy. I just registered online and pay via direct debit.The only trouble is for those who do not watch TV. They have to put up with alls sorts of crap from the TV licensing authority.QuoteThat could be said about many things. Most people want to pay less tax but then complain when public services they rely on get cut. I wouldn't mind paying more tax.And as far as general taxation vs TV licence is concerned, that could also be applied to other things: for example why not abolish fuel duty and vehicle tax and pay for the roads solely from general taxation?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 07:50:44 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 03:07:17 pmIt is insane. What you would think is a simple case of breach of contract at worst, and so for the civil courts to deal with - maybe a CCJ (bad credit) and of course loss of service (if they were capable).No, it is a criminal offence to watch the BBC Ministry of Truth without paying for the propaganda. I recall back in the 1980's something like 40% of all of Holloway prisoners were banged up for not paying the TV Licence. (Holloway is what Austrialians would know as "Prisoner Cell Block H") Basically benefits single mothers who prioritised gas and electricity bills over shit like a TV licence.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 08:14:54 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 17, 2016, 07:50:44 pmShortly , they will open concetrate camps for reeducating to this poor people insane , and that this return to believe on the democratic paradise(as the URSS)

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 09:10:57 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 08:31:35 pmOf course your public health system may not be perfect but what makes you think abolishing and privatising it would make it any better? All that would happen is the companies running it would be able to charge what they like for treatment because sick people will do anything to get better and health insurance would be very expensive, especially if you have a pre-existing condition or a family history of certain illnesses.QuoteThe same could be said for any tax. In some respects, it would be more efficient to only have one tax and simplify tax law but it's never straightforward.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 09:33:02 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 17, 2016, 07:50:44 pmOur country is retarded, we have a declining population that needs to be fixed, yet successive governments have demonised single mothers for decades.We should have been throwing money at them to have more kids as fast as possible."here, stay at home watching TV and breed more, and thank you for saving England"

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 09:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on September 17, 2016, 09:33:02 pmI can't tell whether you're being serious or not. . .If we want a population boost, then we need more immigration, especially from poor countries with a large number of Catholics who don't believe in contraception and will work hard for the minimum wage.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 10:50:10 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff_Birt on September 16, 2016, 02:13:35 pmThat is/was common across Europe. Several years ago the TV license costs got included into the taxes in the Netherlands to make collection easierThe idea is that public television has less commercials and higher quality programs. Now the latter may be true for the BBC but the public television in the NL is just brown porridge.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 01:35:25 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on September 17, 2016, 09:10:57 pmThis could be the oxygen tax. Everything else is tax free.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:00:05 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 11:36:48 pmThere are too burocracy because there are useless put to finger by the politicals(boss Hospital,management center), and as they are a piece of meal with eyes, they have that justified their job ,doing stupid laws and protocols.Here , some taifas zones have privatized some departaments of Hospitals. At the first ,that they have done is modified the contracts of the all employes that haven't place and the fixed employes are mantenied by the public healh on a private corporation ,this last is illegal(but the sindicates shut up because the taifa goverment aren't the Popular Party).When they hire a new personal such private as public ,they do a "work and service contract" by 1 hour and the next day they are fired and return to contract day after tomorrow. (They will have a high morale)The efficiency the private Clinics and Hospitals is hiring a low cost personal, almost all nurses are south-americans ,exploited and bad paid.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 10:30:59 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 17, 2016, 11:36:48 pmAnd private companies just operate to maximise the profit for their share holders. Not only will only those who are able to afford it will get health care but treatments will be decided on which generates the most profit.QuoteYes, it's a tax. One of many. At the moment it does have seem to have public support. There are plenty of silly taxes such as vehicle tax which could easily be abolished and put all on fuel. At the moment the TV tax seems to have reasonable public support so it will continue for now.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:24:27 pm
content: Well a few days ago I received the good old letter from the TV licensing authority once again reminded me that I'm a criminal if I do not pay up in the event I am watching TV. To be fair the letters have mellowed somewhat over the last few years although some of their templates of an aggressive nature still exist. Some of their templates are indeed out of date because going by the letter that I received I will be perfectly legal to watch television on catch up. The thugs that collect our TV licence are pretty much just that they can't even be bothered to keep their literature up to date with the law. They know very well that they have next to no chance of catching people out these days as they have no legal authority to enter your home unless they come with a police officer and search warrant and they know very well that they can't pick up viewing of television on a computer so instead they use these nasty letters to imply you are a criminal and scare you into paying.Our wonderful government thinking we are really stupid even came up with a new idea to trying fill the gap that we are all aware of even the ignorant public where they can't pick up your use of a computer. The only thing they can pick up is some of the intermediate frequency filtering back up the aerial if you are using a real TV. So now apparently they have these Wi-Fi vans which they stop talking about just as fast as they did because we have all realise that they are total and utter fakes. The only way to absolutely determine that somebody is watching TV on the assumption they are using Wi-Fi in their home and not cabled ethernet is to break into your Wi-Fi network illegally and spy on you. Over time they have done this they might as well just pass a law that makes the ISPs monitor those people who are not paying for any access to BBC streaming services and to notify the authorities if such services are accessed. There would be a privacy outcry of course personally I don't give a toss if they do that.I did hear somebody on the radio trying to explain how this Wi-Fi vans things going to work and he started going on about packets and patterns of data which they can try and match to programs and quite frankly he was not very convincing because he was either going to have to say they could not do it or he was going to have to say there were go to try illegal methods.Personally I don't have time to watch TV I'm too busy on this forum running my business studying going out with my friends and doing all sorts of things as a poster sat at home having somebody else tell me what to do or letting me think that I'm doing all right because there was showing me programs and stories about people who are having a right old time. From the little I gather most TV is shit and not worth paying for no matter what channel it comes from.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:41:04 pm
content: I received one of those letters when I moved into my new property, see attached.What was annoying was it asked me to licence my home by 20th April but I didn't get the keys until the 28th and I didn't actually move in until the end of May! I just ignored the letter and got my TV licence once I'd moved in and got my TV set up. I received a couple more letters before then but just put them in the recycle bin.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:42:22 pm
content: They are vbailiffs and behave as such. I did not bother to reply to my letter asking me to confirm i don't have a TV or use the service online. If they send someone round i will tell them to fuck off!

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 18, 2016, 06:24:27 pmThere is an one thing that i don't understand. Have anybody denunciated to inspectors by extortion and falsification the search warrant(official document)?And the policemen are dickheads, Can anybody present to policemen an order search warrant versus private property and they don't call to judge for verifing if it is authenticates?Because they are coauthors of a crime, this the form more silly for losing their job.I am hallucinating

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:46:24 pm
content: You need to remember that not having a tv license does not make you a criminal. TV license is actually handled privately (BBC Is private, not govt) so unlike your income tax or VAT this cannot be criminalised if not paid as it is not a must to pay it. BBC just has its influence in the government to enforce its practices.Its more expensive for bbc to take you to court than to coerce you into paying or just leaving you alone. The problem isnt just the way this is handled but like any sort of tax people make mistakes (there are various videos about hmrc and other establishments getting taxes and debts wrong where they keep threatening and charging people even if the tax has been paid).The first thing the UK needs to do if it wishes to stop its declining population is not to discriminate. Brexit was a disaster and politics in the UK has always been silly. People are finding other countries much better to live and i actually get offers from europe but only rejections from UK. Cost of living is another factor too. As long as companies can overprice items or charge you more for it, its just going to drive people out and even houses are crazily priced.I really think the bbc needs to be less threatening with this as if less than 10% of homes dont pay the tv license for not having tv/watching bbc than trying to threaten or take action costs more than leaving them alone.Essentially the tv license unlike last time is all about watching the bbc. Last time it was about owning a tv but in all practicality if you own a tv but dont watch bbc(or use tv antenna/cable tv) you shouldnt have to pay,

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:51:19 pm
content: Tim The Lawyer came up recently with a new book about the state of permits in the US. Basically our government confiscate our liberties and then sell them back to us. This is how the government class funds itself and gains more control over our lives.https://www.amazon.com/Permission-Society-Ruling-Freedoms-Privileges/dp/1594038392/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on September 18, 2016, 07:36:25 pmIndeed a judge would have to issue the warrant or however it is done a police man just can't turn up on your doorstep and want to search for house. The police however would enforce a search warrant and be the ones to carry it out or monitor it carrying out hence my comment. If a due search warrant was obtained and the TV licence inspector was accompanied by a police officer I would happily let them in. But the licensing inspector on his own has absolutely no authority over me or my property and the threats of the TV vans are just a threat there is nothing in them in reality.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:05:17 pm
content: from the look of the video the "radio" van seemed like a mobile home rather than one of rohde and shwarz van with satellites and antennas that are used for tracking down pirate radio.

author: CBP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:41:37 pm
content: TV licencing is now (and probably has been for a while) in the hands of private companies like Capita and there representatives are almost pyramid scheme-esque, they appear to be on a commission to catch licence dodgers which is probably little surprise. I met a middle manager with them who was doing very well out of it as he was in a poor area (in the top 20 deprived areas in the country), he didn't do much of the dirty work himself and I imagine that the boots on the ground workers probably don't do well at all out of it.To be honest I don't have a licence and took the aerial plates off the walls and the aerial out of the loft as I can live quite happily off of a DVD player, I had the usual heavy worded letters but I filled out a form on their website saying that I did not need a TV licence and I have not heard from them in about 18 months which true to their word they said they wouldn't but may be in touch in two years just to double check.A magistrate can authorise a warrant however like with all warrants there has to be good grounds for suspecting an offence has been committed and there is going to be evidence on their premises, as someone who has sworn out countless warrants at court they aren't always trivial to get authorised. TV licencing also have to pay the warrant fee (think it was £50 odd or such) for the application which then needs Police officer support to effectively execute. TV licence evaders essentially are caught on the mistaken belief to people (students etc) that the enforcement officers are more powerful than they actually are (by doing things like reading the PACE caution to them which may make people think they are in a position of authority) and getting people to confess on the doorstep.See Also: RSPCA

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:49:11 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 18, 2016, 06:24:27 pmYep, if it was possible people would already be discussing workarounds, and nobody is.As it happens, it appears possible to stream a video via a torrent client, so there needn't be a link to iPlayer anyway.The other loophole is maintaining an open guest DMZ network on your wi-fi, if they can't prove the client was you, then you are not liable for was the link was used for. Although I can think of bigger crimes against the state than watching the next series of Doctor Who.Of course the next objective of the EU is to ban un-passworded wi-fi...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 06:11:33 am
content: Yes they do leave you alone for a couple of years if you fill in the form. I just hate the bastards so I make them work hard. This time I'm pretty put out by the fact the letter they have sent me contains outdated rules as it is effectively telling me that I'm free to use the iPlayer to catch up. So if I was to use the iPlayer and they were to hypothetically catch me (yes not possible) could I claim that I was doing it legally because the letter didn't tell me I couldn't?The best the guy on the radio could come up with for the detector vans is that they are analysing the patterns in the packets of data you are transmitting and can pick out known patterns of television programmes. This is utterly ludicrous at best. Firstly there can be multiple users on the network, how much program information does a packet contain? If a route is spitting out packets to 5 different users in the household how can they reconstruct what is going to? If they wanted to prove that it was coming from my route they would probably have to come onto my property which would not be possible with the van they would have to use hand-held equipment. My roots are is right next to the wall with my neighbour and I would not be surprised if they also have a route to right next to the wall. How do prove whose route it is? The whole thing is totally preposterous and because of things like this these lies I will never ever cooperate with them and endeavour to make their lives as difficult as possible. They are quite welcome to enter the property accompanied by a police officer with a warrant I have no objection to that but they are not going to turn up on my doorstep with no authority and start searching my house.The last guy I had round I allowed in having let him know I knew I didn't have to as I had just moved in and was in a bit of a mess and was quite happy to let him see all the TVs the previous owner had left because I knew he could do sweet fuck all about it as they were plugged in and receiving or rather they weren't receiving they could be plugged in for all I care, that was a dissapointment for him. He asked me if I could receive TV via the Internet as I told him that is all I use really, I said "I don't know you tell me aren't you the expert".

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 06:42:30 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 18, 2016, 06:24:27 pmActually video streaming can be rather conspicuous. If you spot a regular stream of large packets, it's quite likely that it will be streaming. Depending on the actual volume you can even know wether it's audio or video. It doesn't involve trying to break encryption, it's just traffic analysis.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_analysis*But* they can't reliably know where that streaming comes from. You could be watching the BBC, Netflix, or even video from your private video server.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 10:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: System Error Message on September 18, 2016, 09:05:17 pm...and the chances are the 3.141-key in that mobile home was just scamming as usual, just a new method on top of his laying driveways and doing some gardening, stealing an OAPs savings from the biscuit tin, etc...

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 11:18:18 pm
content: Don't even start provoking me about this 'corrupt bullying bunch of incompetent arseholes'.That's a description from a guy at the Citizens Advice Bureau about what I was subjected to, and I was paying the fcking licence fee.Not paying any more, I've seen how they perform in Magistrates Court and it's embarrasing for them.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 12:52:36 am
content: the wifi van is fake. Even if they had a wifi device in it they would have to be infront of your house to sniff about. It seems more like some guy camping infront of your house with binoculars and other things to find evidence that you are just dodging from paying the license.The way that is used to enforce the tv license is outdated. In other countries, taxes are used to pay for national tv programs which do have ads to decrease the cost.Just remember that this license is private, its not a state/national/govt related thing. Its not like a gun license either. So essentially if you dont watch BBC you shouldnt need to pay as the license is like the subscription fee.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on September 19, 2016, 06:42:30 amExcept guy I heard was trying to claim that they could match data patterns in your streaming to the patterns of a TV programme. I just spent the whole explanation laughed my head off. The government and the BBC are really aware of how poor education standards in the UK have become if they think people are going to be believing this crap. They obviously completely forgot about the fact that you can use ethernet and it would never be detectable. For all I care they can have a look at my Internet records when ever the fuck they like.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 08:08:58 pm
content: There are *studies* done in Germany, where it can be determined which TV channel you are watching by analysing the fluctuation of the power consumption. The theory behind it is that the TV will consume more power, the brighter the image is. By monitoring the fluctuation in comparison with the brightness levels of different channels, a match can be found.Before you guys start laughing at me, put this link into Google Translate:http://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Smart-Meter-verraten-Fernsehprogramm-1346166.htmlIt is form respected Heise publisher, know for the c't magazine.Naturally, I do not believe that goverments go this far to have the TV tax collected.By the way, I stand corrected: after reading the posts in this thread, I came to realise that TV tax collections seems to be worse in the UK than in Germany!I consider the procedure ridiculous and against any democratic principle. But then, I don't believe in democracy anyway, much less in the current form of implementation.I think:1) Public TV has a purpose, which is noble, but the reality shows that it does not managed to acomplish it's mission2) Public TV has been taxed historically on a per use basis, due to the slow start in the past - people in the 50ies and 60ies were poor and it would be ridiculous to charge them TV taxes3) Public TV is a tool used (and abused) by goverments4) Goverments fear the power of free TV consumption over IP, hence enforcing the public TV upon its audience5) Public TV should be taxed globaly, saving the overhead of TV tax collectors6) If public TV is to be taxed on per use basis, then smartcards should be used (like in Austria, Switzerland, France, to name three examples)7) Public TV and radio should be transmitted through well known and robust modulation standards - I think that digital broadcast was a big mistake for public transmissionsGoverments should pay more attention on enforcing that every household gets access to flatrate broadband internet connection - much more important than TV or radioRegards,Vitor

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 08:30:31 pm
content: You would have to be able to tap into the household power supply at which point like in the case of Wi-Fi detection your measurements will be swamped out of reality by the consumption of other devices in the household. So obviously no this is not going to be something they will attempt.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 08:34:23 pm
content: The linked article is about new generation power meter with return path communication. The power distributor can do these measurements for the TV tax collector...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 08:51:09 pm
content: But you would have to measure the TV specifically - not going to happen.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 08:56:19 pm
content: Of course it is not going to happen. I was just pointing out the current possibilities.But for sure, the process could be automated to determine which channels are being watched on general householders, provided just one TV is being used per household. One application mentioned is exactly audience measurement for advertising price calculation...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 09:00:09 pm
content: no, if you are measuring the whole houshold you have many varying loads in the house so it would not work, you need to meter the TV specifically so it's academic only although possible.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 09:04:15 pm
content: You may want too try and translate the linked article.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 10:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 20, 2016, 09:04:15 pmWhy bother? Just because some vested interest company claims to be able to discern what people are watching purely from their power consumption, it is patently bollocks and worthy of no further consideration. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence after all...Besides, the dinosaur that is public broadcast TV is dying and quite rightly, as they are the propaganda arm of governments and lavishly funded with shitloads of "non-jobs" at tax payers expense including paedos like Jimmy Saville.I very rarely watch broadcast TV - Even news broadcasts are woefully out of date compared to what you can find livestreaming on the internet, and without that editorialising too.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 02:07:07 am
content: You cannot tell what people are watching via power usage? How will you differentiate from every other power using utility? Will you measure by the power used for every pixel?The only way to tell if the person has a tv is 2 ways. 1) via radio (like those dishes, tv antennas), 2) via subscription (cable, online, etc). Infact it would be better if tv license was dropped and replaced with a subscription fee where to watch you either need to subscribe for internet/cable/online or if you have tv antennas, satellite tv than you would pay tv license.I never watch any bbc programs and less and less and less are watching tv. The newer generation prefers watching what they want, when they want rather than sticking to a programme or specific time.

author: switcher
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 08:35:28 am
content: Quote from: System Error Message on September 21, 2016, 02:07:07 amAnd that's just it. The world has changed, and some, since the BBC, and licence fee was introduced, in 1930-something-frozen-to-death, and they wont accept it.I get very annoyed with it all. I get constantly bombarded with 'To the Legal Occupier' letters. Its the assumption of guilt, by not having a tv licence, that annoys me most.There is no point writing to them to say you dont have a tv (I know people who have done this) because they just ignore you.Its a bit like assuming; that because my house is situated in a road, I must have a car ! Its absurd !I dont watch tv (its all shite) so I dont pay a licence. My choice.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 11:39:22 am
content: Quote from: switcher on September 21, 2016, 08:35:28 amAnd that's why I plan to make it hard work for them.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2016, 02:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: switcher on September 21, 2016, 08:35:28 amWait, you actually would open something addressed like that? No name, no open. "Valued customer" "Current resident" "Legal occupier" (what dont want squatters to read it?) Trash without opening.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2016, 06:44:34 pm
content: being a private company they cant legally access details about the address/house. Only the cops/feds/govt can. The license is applied by house/apartment. If a house/apartment doesnt pay they check if someone lives there but it seems that they know when someone moves in. They target students too even though students dont watch tv because they threats scare international students and half of students at universities are international. Since the students dont know better it becomes a greedy and unethical source of income. Imagine, a student accommodation, each apartment/flat having around 5 students, each room gets a letter (yes each room, not the flat/apartment), thats a huge amount of letters and money.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2016, 08:24:52 pm
content: In theory the TV licence should only apply if one watched BBC but in reality it does whenever one has a TV hooked up to an aerial, satellite dish or a cable service. Suppose someone has a subscription to cable TV, yet doesn't pay the licence? The authorities would most likely chase them for TV licence evasion and probably secure a successful prosecution. The defendant may claim they don't need one as they don't watch BBC but they can't prove they don't and the law says they have a TV receiver connected up and is ready to receive BBC programmes so they have to have a TV licence.Personally, I like the BBC. They're pretty good as far as public service broadcaster is concerned and I think offer something the other commercial broadcasters don't. The BBC isn't perfect by any means but I tend to watch it more than other TV stations. As far as how the BBC is funded is concerned: it could be changed to general taxation but the licence seems to be as sensible as any other method. Another thing they could consider is allowing people in other countries to buy a TV licence so they can watch online.As far as the Internet killing off TV because people like to watch what they want, when they want is concerned: weren't people saying the same thing about radio? It didn't happen. Radio is still popular today. I can't see TV dying any time soon. Ratings may not be as good as they were back in the 90s but TV won't go.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2016, 11:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: System Error Message on September 24, 2016, 06:44:34 pmAnd a nightmare to administer,which is why the whole creaking edifice was dropped in favour of direct funding in Oz.It doesn't seem to have much effect upon the ABC's independence in the last 40 years,or so.Of course, bias is in the eye of the beholder:The Right wing of Australian politics thinks the ABC are all a bunch of Leftys,anyway!Case in point:-Some years back when the Federal Budget came out,the ABC commentator rated the Budget as overall,"quite good",but with some points he didn't like .The Commercial CH7 Network commentator,on the other hand,"tore it to shreds",seemingly finding nothing of value in it.The LNP Govt blasted the ABC for "bias" over the few things they criticised,but not a word about CH7!Does that say something about either Pollies viewing patterns,or their attitude to CH7 as a legitimate Political commentator?

author: amiq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 12:22:29 am
content: http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/uk-surveillance-and-the-cover-story-for-a-targeted-killing-programme/

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 01:59:09 am
content: Does the UK has pay cable channels? If so, cable viewers could pay for the BBC only if they subscribe to its channel. This practice is very common here, for example with HBO or certain sport channels.

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 02:57:57 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 24, 2016, 11:56:08 pmSame sort of thing happened across the ditch here in New Zealand - the gov scrapped the TV licence fee (and the TV licence enforcement operation) and now funds "NZ On Air" from general tax revenues.So, you pay for it even if you don't watch it ("swings and roundabouts"?), but at least you don't get hassled by the licence enforcement brigade any more...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 09:44:12 am
content: Quote from: zapta on September 25, 2016, 01:59:09 amYes and as far as I'm aware, all cable channels include the BBC channels so not subscribing to them isn't an option.I don't have cable TV anyway. My dad does and it's just packed with adverts and is more expensive than the TV licence.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 12:40:26 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on September 25, 2016, 09:44:12 amThat's what DVRs with skip buttons are for.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 12:48:49 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 25, 2016, 12:40:26 pmYes but why should I pay for adverts which I have to avoid? Fuck that!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 01:11:26 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on September 25, 2016, 12:48:49 pm

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 01:20:27 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 25, 2016, 01:11:26 pmI don't care. All subscription TV services I'm aware of focus on having hundreds of channels packed with rubbish and advertising. If I want pay TV, I'd rather have high quality content, fewer channels and no adverts.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 05:33:23 pm
content: I think somebody is lacking a sense of humour here. I laughed anyway zapta!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 06:02:36 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 25, 2016, 05:33:23 pm

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2016, 07:03:19 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 25, 2016, 05:33:23 pmYes. Was there a joke? Obviously I don't get it.