PnP Calibration for placing 0201  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2021, 03:19:18 pm
content: I tried to calibrate my Autotronik BS391V (Manncorp MC391V) and I can't place 0201 accurately (but its very consistent in the placement). I did the basic calibration (camera offsets + A-mark) but still no luck. Anyone know if I'm missing something or any other recommendations?P.S. I'm also using the smallest nozzle (0.3mm) that is for 0201 ; so I still can't figurate out what is wrong.Thanks!

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 03:22:38 am
content: It looks like everything is shifted the same amount in the same direction which points to the location to place is wrong which probably due to inaccurate mapping from pick and place file to the machine coordinates. Can you used the overhead camera to go through all the components without placing is at the center of each components?

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 03:45:36 pm
content: Yes, I used the overhead camera to go through all the components without placing them and the camera shows the right spot at the PCB; the component shows shifted. That is still a calibration issue then? Camera offset problem?

author: Smallsmt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 09:43:46 am
content: I looks like camera offset problem is there a setting to calibrate camera to nozzle distance?Or maybe a offset correction parameter for each head?The placement of 0201 requires a small nozzle runout. low concentricity errors

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 01:37:15 am
content: I should use the 201 nozzle to set the camera offsets then?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 04:24:33 pm
content: Quote from: mendez on February 08, 2021, 01:37:15 amOK, I have a totally different machine, but the same problem has to be dealt with on all of them. So, I picked a flat piece of metal on my machine (part of the board conveyor rail) and put a very light dab of spotting dye (commonly found in machine shops) on a small nozzle.I then planted the nozzle on the rail so it left a round mark. I noted the machine coordinates on the screen. I then moved the camera over the mark and put the cursor exactly centered on the dye mark. I then noted the XY coordinates again. Subtracting the two sets of numbers gave me the offset between camera and nozzle. I could then repeat the process for each nozzle. These numbers were then entered in the calibration menu.A guy from Quad who has helped me a lot said to put a thin layer of Silly Putty on the rail and let the nozzle leave a ring-shaped dent in the putty, and that sounds like that would work well, too. (But, I have the spotting dye in my shop.)Jon

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 04:53:53 am
content: Jon,That is a great idea. I will try your suggestion. I think i will have to open the sys file and manually input the offsets because the software won't let me.Thanks a lot!

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 05:06:12 am
content: By right if you do a camera calibration and nozzle calibration, this will remove the offset in theory. Unless the calibration process itself is not that accurate.

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 12:03:48 pm
content: The way autotronik do their nozzle calibration is by picking up 1 nozzle and touching a small piece of clay and then I move the camera to the center hole.Put is hard to see that "clay hole"

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 12:39:25 pm
content: Quote from: mendez on February 09, 2021, 12:03:48 pmHow mine (HW-T4-50F) works is they gave you a standard set of Juki 503 nozzle with the tip hole already filled up with some filling in silver color. Then it does the nozzle calibration automatically using the looking up camera and the looking down camera calibration uses an ink pad for those nozzle to dip and touch on a big piece of white paper. That way, it knows how much of shift exists between the looking down camera and the nozzle center.Something like a clay hole is tough I believe for something needing so much of accuracy.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 05:11:03 pm
content: Quote from: mendez on February 09, 2021, 04:53:53 amSure, they don't want you messing in these "factory" adjustments, but when it is OUT of adjustment, you have to fix it.There's probably a secret password that allows access to the setup data.Jon

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 01:26:13 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on February 10, 2021, 05:11:03 pmSo I was able to finally calibrate my PnP for 0201 and it's very consistent and I'm quite happy with it. I was not able to access this type of calibration from the software (they don't let you); so I bypass itfrom the settings file.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 02:37:52 am
content: I didn't follow all the details of what was going on here as I don't have a PnP machine to see how all the parts interact. But I didn't hear anything about the pickup. If there was a miscalibration there, wouldn't that show up in this exercise even if the nozzle was perfectly calibrated? It picks up the part fine, but it's not centered on the nozzle and gets put down off center. Or does the bottom camera see that and adjust?I've seen some high end PnP gear in action and it's pretty cool. One machine would minimize travel time by picking up multiple devices, then placing them all before going back for more. That must be a chore to program efficiently. There were some parts that prevented the head from getting as many as possible, so that's an interference factor. The shop owner was very proud of his equipment. : )

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:57:07 am
content: The bottom camera does the vision and check the center of the component, and apply correction where necessary to the X,Y and angle.

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:31:07 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on February 12, 2021, 02:37:52 amThat is a good question. This machine has two types of vision correction:1. Bottom Vision (typically used for large components) - its slow2. On-the-fly Aligment- this is what I used the most because is fast. It uses a camera and prisms to calculate the offset / placement of the component at the nozzle and corrects it. This is where my problem was, because the part will never be perfectly centered everytime the nozzle picks it.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:28:02 am
content: Quote from: 48X24X48X on February 12, 2021, 03:57:07 amSo if that is the case, why would a miscalibration of the nozzle result in a placement error? Wouldn't the bottom camera catch and correct it? I see a lot of discussion of calibrating the nozzle position. That might impact the ability to pick the part properly, but once it is picked the location would be zeroed in by the bottom camera viewing the part, no?Where are the cameras mounted? I'm thinking the bottom camera is at a fixed location and the top camera is on the head that moves.Listening to Miles Davis, nice. Haven't heard his riffs in a while.

author: mendez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 01:29:56 pm
content: Yes, you can use Bottom camera but its just one way of checking for parts misalignment. The downside for using Bottom Vision is that it reduces your CPH. Typically is used for larger components (i.e. QFP)There is another way of checking for misalignment in the components and is called "on-the-fly" vision alignment (explained above). When the nozzle picks the component, there is a prims and a camera that check for aligment while the XY moves to place the part.

author: kinero
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 02:41:06 pm
content: I have a Manncorp MC388V4 (the big one) and according to the manual, 0201 component placement requires the use of their NZ-0201-V nozzles. They measure 0.7mm OD x 0.3mm ID. I agree with the other comments - seems your offset is systemic and I would definitely start out with offset calibration.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2022, 11:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: mendez on February 12, 2021, 01:29:56 pmIs that an optical effect from a combination of the prism view and the direct view rather than a CPU analyzing the image? I'm thinking something like fringing to find flaws in a mirror or lens.

author: kinero
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 07:28:55 am
content: PM sent!

author: ccecil
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 04:13:13 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on February 10, 2021, 05:11:03 pmSo there is an extended password that allows it.My "user" password was 4 digits. Service password is 6. My service password was the same but it had 28 added to the end...try thatIn my case...I got lucky and found the number written on my machine. Now my only issue is that I don't have the vision calibration nozzle.From what I can see though in the manual there is a way to manually fix the offsets in placement using calibration menu C3 and C4. Page 237 in the manual online.If anyone has the vision calibration nozzle with the 3 crosses (12mm circle) if possible I would love to get some measurements from you. I suspect if I have one it is lost.

author: kinero
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 05:18:28 am
content: Do you still need the vision calibration nozzle?