When do you say "good enough" on a personal electronics project?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: mortrek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 03:22:01 pm
content: I know this is a fairly personal question, but I'm curious. I have been working on a project for a while and I have a fully functional version of it that works pretty well.I have a couple revisions of PCBs already. The current version is just not as efficient or "professional" as it could be. I could eliminate components that aren't necessary anymore, integrate modules into the board, convert it to be almost completely SMD, fix the PCB footprint so it makes more sense, make it slightly more energy efficient, etc. I have enough personal notes to majorly rework the project, likely introducing problems and needing multiple new board revisions to get it right...I'm worried that if I keep putting time and money into it and "fixing" it, I'll never be done with it. When do you think a project should be "good enough"? It's not being sold, it's just for my use in another non-electronics project.My thought was that maybe I just consider this a version that's "done", since it is fully functional. If I ever want to fix it up and make it better, it'll be easy enough to get back into working on it. I also feel a little embarrassed by how imperfect it is, so I don't want to show it off to anyone knowledgeable, bit I'm proud of creating it regardless... it's definitely the most significant electronics project I've ever attempted.I just wanted other peoples' take on what they would do.Thank you.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 04:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: mortrek on May 27, 2020, 03:22:01 pmYou have probably heard the expression, “better is the enemy of good”. But, it is more complicated than that and your post reveals a lot about how you feel about the project.On the one hand you say that it is fully functional, but on the other, you are worried about putting more time and money into it and "fixing" it forever.You are embarrassed by how imperfect it is, and don’t want to show it off to anyone knowledgeable, but you are proud of creating it.You are done with the project and you should be proud of the accomplishment. Give yourself the credit that you deserve.You should also understand that creating something that does not meet your ideal does not mean that you have compromised your standards. NOT when it is for your personal use.You have said that it is by far your most sophisticated electronic project…but wait until the next one eh?This is one project and you will move onto the next one having learned more. You will never create a perfect project – if you ever think you have done so, ask me to criticize itYou don’t want to fall into the habit of the chronic disgruntled gambler. When they pick the winning horse, they whine that they should have had the exacta. When they have the exacta, they whine that they should have had the trifecta…then the superfecta and the pick 6 and all of them…then they go home broke.You can feel good about making something that works, or you can feel bad that you made something that is not as good as you wanted it to be.Suppose you are the parent of a 5 year old, how would you tell the child to feel regarding that choice? Get it?BTW: I have a little project hanging on my wall....it works...it looks like a 5-year old made it...I show it to people...It still looks like a 5-year old made it but they have no idea how they could do it. I have more than one of these projects...I 'm not embarrassed. I just keep moving on and hope that I can continue to get better....and if I show it to someone who knows more, then I start picking their brain to help me get better.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 04:59:45 pm
content: It depends on each person's personality. Some like to have one project driven to perfection over many years, some other prefer to have a plethora of sloppy projets over the same period of time.It's all up to you, choose the path that brings you the most joy out of your work.Most people with science and technology interests might seem OCD/pedantic when compared with other types, so that is why we should keep in mind thateverything is temporary, including life or the universe itself, so maybe explore more would make sense rather than having a single project driven to perfection. How much is too much, or to less, it's all up to you.I'm rather for exploring more areas and enjoy the landscape than to drive a single project to perfection, also I'm certainly against being sloppy with a project, but that's just me, there is no official "right" way to be, it's up toyou.Being alive is a one time, unique and an incredibly improbable one-way ticket.So, enjoy it, be kind, and take the most out of it.

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 05:31:14 pm
content: mmm, good question. I'm willing to admit I'm having a problem with this too. Your attention is still with your design. You have gained experience during the project. And obviously the non-ideal stuff is bothering you. I feel you, I have the exact same thing.I believe what DrG said, It's done! is tough for you to accept. It's because your current focus is still very much on your design. What I can suggest to you is to write a document along with your design where you express any non-ideal thing that is still bothering you. You know for a possible future you who wants to make a better version. And count these comments as green check marks! After that I would recommend you to consider: What is the most valuable thing to spend my time on. Maybe you need to change oil on your car, clean gutters on your house. You know.The next electronics project you start of with more experience, that's a sure win.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 06:37:16 pm
content: As was previously pointed out, the perfect is the enemy of the good enough. It sounds like you've iterated it a few times and have something that functions properly. Could you respin it and improve it? Apparently the answer to that is yes. But if you have a device that is working well, my inclination would be to tuck the knowledge gained away in my head, and apply it to the NEXT project while it's in the design stages, in order to head some of the things that bother you about this one off before they are cast into the design. Sort of an "I did it this way last time and it worked, but if I'd changed <whatever>, I think it would have been <neater, faster, cleaner, cheaper, more efficient, pick one or more or add your own here>, so I'll do it that way THIS time. Rather than continuing to hone and improve the earlier design, build on what you liked/disliked about it in future projects.-Pat

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 07:00:46 pm
content: Part of the answer is when you can completely let go of it. Saying you are done for now doesn't work for two reasons. Most important is it leaves you unsatisfied, but also the deep knowledge of the problem you have now will fade over time. You will have painful relearning to do if you ever return to the project. No matter how good your notes and records are.I am personally all over the place on this one. I have some projects that were "done" for me when it was haywired up on a proto board. Others weren't "complete" until it was packaged almost to commercial standards. The first answer tends to be when I am trying to learn something about a configuration or method. The latter is when I expect to be using the results over and over again in the future, perhaps even with other people using or operating the device.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 08:53:41 pm
content: Your desctiption is far to general to give some decent advice, and of course it all depends on what you want to do with it.If your main concern is to have a "working" device, then just put all components in a box and screw the lid closed.If you want to improve your electronics knowledge then maybe a few iterations to improve it further are a good idea.If you want to make your project public, such as for example the Scullcom projects, then more iterations may also be a good idea.What benefits would a "better" / "improved" version have for you?If it's some measurement device, would it be useful to have extra digits of resolution?If you did the project with 100 parts, and can redo it with 90 parts, that's not 10 parts less, but 90 parts more, and a lot of time.Maybe make a list of other projects you want to do. A new project may be more interesting then endless modification of an old project.If you want to continue on another project, then at least make some description of the sort of improvements you had in mind, and also write down why you think those modifications would improve this project. Such notes may be valuable if you want to refresh your memory in a few years time.When a project is "finished" also make good backups of documentation, schematics, source code etc.From some of my old projects I only have schematics on paper, made by some obscure PCB program that used to work under DOS.Having a schematic in an universal format such as .pdf or .svg as an "extra" in the backup is a useful extra for when the software with which you made the PCB goes obsolete. Gerbers are also a "universal" file format.Nowaday I use KiCad. If I have both a schematic in .pdf and Gerbers, then I can re-create an old PCB in a day or less, which would take much more time and effort if I had to recreate it from scratch or from a real PCB I put in a box years ago.Also, in 20 or 30 years time it's nice to browse through your own old projects if you have decent documentation and notes so you can see your own progress over time.

author: Marck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 11:34:05 pm
content: For me personally i just ask myself is what i am doing serving me? What are my trying to get from a particular experience? If your trying to create a thing of beauty do imperfections add to it? Are you looking for perfection ? Can you learn anything more from what you are doing? And opportunity cost. If you continue on with the project what is it costing you if you don’t move on. Time, experience, joy is it causing frustration? Or are you just simply bored with it?The beauty of hobbies and personal projects is you have the luxury of being indulgent in almost any aspect. And you don’t have to close the book on it forever. You can move forward and learn more and come back down the track and apply new skills.I am very new to electronics although I work in a technical field I lack deep understanding of what makes things work. So a big part of my learning at the moment is just reading everything i can here. Most of it is well above my grasp but I connect the dots as I go. A year ago I decided to build a very simple valve peramp because I wanted one. I could have bought a kit for less than I have spent so far on components that after reading a great deal here and on audio nut pages I probably wont use. My primary goal for this project was to build a functional device that is visually appealing. In 12 months I have only completed a 24Vac power supply for it. The original design has it internal to the amp enclosure but I have made it external to try reduce the likelihood of causing noise and so the layout of the amp itself is more elegant. I have moved away from the idea of an off the shelf bridge rectifiers to individual diodes. I have salvaged some higher quality components to use even though buying them new would be far cheeper and easier scavenging parts from other kit has given me more understanding of where and why they are used. I have drawn and redrawn plans and layouts many times as I have learnt more.All of that is time consuming and probably a little wasteful seeing if I had of just ordered the bits thrown it in a case and thrown it together I would have my toy and be finished spending time and money. But every step and change has served me. Its taught me much more than I would have gotten from just following the bouncing ball. Some of the components if they work out will have an interesting history (for a certain breed of nerd). For me its more than just making it work like I do on a daily basis professionally. I will never be an electronics professional or probably have the need to apply much of what I learn in any important situation. It just fills my need for learning and experience and in a weird way allows me to be a little bit artistic which is something I have never really been good at or interested in. Through a natural progression based around personal interest has given me knowledge around electronics, fabrication and a little bit of telecommunications history.I suppose the short answer is if you still enjoy working on your project and don’t want to move on keep plugging away. If not move on.M

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 12:21:44 am
content: You stop when a new and exciting project comes along!

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 02:35:36 am
content: If it is not for sale/ volume manufacturing, I would stop now. Just remember to apply the lessons learned to the next project. If you wanted to sell it then, yes, you have to optimize it, make it manufacturable and reduce the cost.

author: greenpossum
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 02:54:27 am
content: When the smoke stops pouring out.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 02:56:37 am
content: When the individuals personality type and/or resource limits say so. For some people, the first working model is good enough. For others, they'll still be improving it when they die. If it costs a great deal to develop, it may be when the spousal unit puts their foot down and buys food with the money.

author: mayor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 09:53:08 am
content: Often faced with the same dilemma, I will move on to the next thing when the current one starts feeling like a chore. More often than not, I revisit older projects over time. Are they ever good enough (is there even such a thing)? Doesn't really matter, as long as I'm learning or having fun along the way.Interesting topic!

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 10:23:13 am
content: For my personal projects good enough is usually the moment when it works properly.In general i tend to loose interest in projects once they work. As a result they do end up looking like a mess. A lot of my projects are perfboards with a rats nest of wires on the other side or are even just chinese modules off ebay held together by a tangle of wires and glue. But it does work.If you want to keep working on your project and improve it, then just do it. Its your personal project after all, so you do with it whatever you want. If something else exiting comes along feel free to leave this one as it is, if you change your mind you can still give it another iteration later on.Have a look at how many iterations some of Daves projects have went trough like the uCurrent or calculator watch.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 12:41:08 pm
content: My checklist is quite small:Does it threaten to burn the house down? No. Check!Are any of the components still attached using test leads? No. Check!Does it have to be placed on a non-conductive surface to be powered up safely? No. Check!

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 12:51:53 pm
content: Would I enjoy doing the improvements, then yes. Else no.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 10:13:28 pm
content: For me, when I get the result expected, it's "good enough."For me, when it's close, it's "almost good enough."I have scrapped many dollars and time working toward "good enough." I've scrapped a project that was "done", because more careful measurement turned out it wasn't "good enough." This happens fairly often.I do these things for my own satisfaction. I often end up spending it would have been cheaper if I bought an equivalent commercial products. But where's the fun in that? For many things that are beyond my ability and capability, I buy though.One method you can use is to set a realistic expectations that works for you. Many projects are indeed "never finished". I have many projects like that. Test out new ideas, remake few parts, etc, etc, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with any of it. Because that's what I want to do.

author: dbctronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 02:08:57 am
content: I'm in line with a lot of respondents here-- do-overs can pay off if you learn from them, but I always have unfinished work ahead of me, so I pay myself forward, and apply the improvement ideas for the current project to future ones.I only scrap and redo a project (or any part of one) if I realize that it's going to be:1. Fairly easy to do2. A really good learning opportunity to get it right3. A real pain to use if I try to accept it as isFiction writers say "A work of fiction is never finished, only abandoned". I think that applies to anything anybody really wants to do well, not just do to get it done, like fixing a plumbing leak.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 03:03:43 am
content: No clue what's right for the OP.I have a metal-working analogy. I made a pretty decent die grinder cut-off wheel guard a year or two ago. I'm proud of it, because it includes really thin sheet metal folded over and welded with just a cheap stick welder. It looks good, considering. But it's sitting at the back of a shelf. It was the second one, because I was embarrassed about the first one. But that first one was already on there, and it works fine. So I never installed the upgrade.But in this case, I was learning. still. And I was curious about the process. I wanted to see how well I could do this, to know what I can and can't do in the future, and I had nothing better in mind to build.When it comes to electronics, I often lose interest at the point where I have BTDT, already. There are a lot of things about programming and electronics design that takes a lot of really dull attention to really dull details. And the only saving grace is the relative ease of mass-manufacturing. If it's just for me... well, it might not be worth it unless it's covering new ground in some way. Say optimizing sleep power consumption for instance... yeah, I could. But if I'm not being paid to do it, I can also buy an occasional replacement battery and NOT do it... and that might sound pretty good.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 11:31:16 pm
content: I’m learning to play the piano.A question that often arises from learners is very similar. How perfect should you get a piece of music before moving on to something else.The answer (in my own words) from most people playing for years is that as you’re learning, the techniques you gain from learning a particular piece, are far far more important than spending months boring yourself senseless polishing something you will more than likely never play again. And some point out that if you do come back to the piece at some point in the future, chances are you will either find yourself playing it almost perfectly without having to think, or will think it’s so simple that you’re glad you didn’t waste any more time on it.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 04:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on May 29, 2020, 11:31:16 pmOr you will discover that with the insight and skills you have developed that perfection is something far different than what you imagined when you stopped. With electronics it is worse because the technology is changing so rapidly that your own development doesn't dominate the results as it does in piano or other similar endeavors.

author: basinstreetdesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 02:35:57 am
content: I always thought the expression "the good enough is the enemy of the perfect" always made more sense.Quote from: mortrek on May 27, 2020, 03:22:01 pmI ran into this a couple of projects ago and I run into it at almost every project. The answer, for me, is when the prospect of doing more work to make it better is more daunting than the prospect of incremental pride when it's done.But also:Quote from: mortrek on May 27, 2020, 03:22:01 pmWhat he said.

author: StuartA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 09:24:58 am
content: I remember when I first started working in electronics (quite some decades ago) and someone asking "What is the definition of "Quality"?His answer was "Adequacy for purpose". I was quite surprised, but I came to accept that view. The standards that you need for a radio for your kitchen are different from those you want for the electronics in the cockpit of a commercial airliner. I've subsequently adopted that same view for my hobby projects. If they work adequately, then what they look like inside the box does not matter to me at all.I doubt that when we find ourselves on our death-beds (could be sooner than we hoped for) we'll lie there saying, " I wish I'd spent more time optimising...[insert name of project here]".

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 10:04:06 am
content: The above answers are sane.It would be good to hear from the OP.If purely for yourself, then the answer is "whenever I feel like it".If to help get a job, then the answer is "whenever I can say I set met objectives, met them, learned X, and next time would do Y better".

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 11:20:02 am
content: Quote from: StuartA on June 01, 2020, 09:24:58 amThat's true, but the purpose can also be "Entertainment value from optimizing something to the n:th degree", which is probably what happened to many voltnuts!

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 05:42:49 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 30, 2020, 04:09:47 pmThis is a very interesting comment because if you have been around for awhile you can get the feeling of being left behind. It takes active effort to keep up with electronics technology.This rapid advancement also means that you can design something one year and a year latter there will be a more refined way to take care of the problem. Computer power supplies are a good example, I can remember back when the very first computers (microprocessor based) came on the market (my early teens); the power supplies where massive transformers, filter caps and a bunch of 3 terminal regulators. It didn't take long at all for the industry to move to switching regulator tech.So if you have a project that you are piddling with, it likely will never be done because there will likely be more elegant chips to help you solve that problem in the next year. There will always be a better solution. Ultimately you have to ship even if it is a personal project other wise it is never done.

author: dbctronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2020, 01:28:37 am
content: Most interesting point when it comes to 'tronics!I was really busy being self employed for a long time. Now that I'm retired, I've been dusting off old project ideas, and the results are:1. Bin time - completely obsolete approach, eithera. Better and cheaper ways available (so many mind-blowing ICs available these days!), orb. Needed parts no longer available (curse the demons that drove the MAX038 out of existence!!!!!)2. Bin time - no longer needed for anything (NiCad battery charger - hah!)3. Bin time - meant to be an educational exercise, and now I understand the problem too well to bothercutting, drilling, soldering, etc.4. Might do - if I can finish it in time to get some use out of it before it becomes needless.5. Might do - if I can finish before the parts I need for my approach are off the market for good.And finally ... drum roll ...6. Doing!Right now, I'm making a solenoid with the ability to deliver a force of several pounds - possibly up to about 8, over a working distance of a few thousandths of an inch, at frequencies of up to 5 kHz or so. This has been a massive learning exercise in magnetics, and since I don't have a machine shop, I am developing a suite of tools (including a homemade surface plate) for doing fairly precise metal working by hand, mostly to make solenoid cores out of salvaged transformers.The mechanical stuff--solenoid and semi-precision tools- is all being done identically to the way I would have done it 50 years ago, but the solenoid drive circuitry is certainly different than it would have been just 20 years ago - I can get a used class D audio amp with 300 W/channel for only US$40, and only need to design and build the driver circuitry. Cool!!