Design: Choosing USB-B/mini/micro ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 10:11:31 pm
content: My design application uses USB serial (with optional power).But I can't decide betweenUSB-mini B, ormicro Bconnectors.Any suggestions?micro-B seems to be much more prevalent nowadaysFull size USB-B seems to have almost disappeared(and ages badly - becoming loose)

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 10:15:41 pm
content: Mini, without a doubt. Micro tears off the board unless you've got a very carefully manufactured case clamping it all together.There are still plenty of mini cables and chargers in the wild.You'll find plenty of rants in the archive.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 11:17:13 pm
content: Micro, without a doubt. Micro holds to the board very well when you use through hole tabs (you can still reflow it like any other SMD).Mini cables are a thing of the past and micro cables are everywhere.Edit: ebay micro usb cable -> 165K results, mini usb cable -> 45K.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 11:19:35 pm
content: How big is your gizmo? I like B when there's room. Less fiddly. Then Mini. Micro only if you're building something small enough to swallow.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 01:42:39 am
content: HmmI'm leaning towards mini.Because as mentioned above - full-size tends to go soft after a lot of insertion cycles (the little mechanical cams wear out).Mini are a bit clunky, and too many variants 4-5 pin, tall, short -butthey seem stronger than micro, and anecdotally last longer than full-size.Micro are just a bit too flimsy for a semi-permanent desktop application - although they are probably as solid as any if not chewed around!

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 02:10:53 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 04, 2014, 01:42:39 amQuote from: SL4P on November 04, 2014, 01:42:39 amError.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:47:00 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 03, 2014, 10:11:31 pmMicro SUCKS. While the contacts may be rated for 10K mate cycles, the connector is good for a few dozen and then it's done. I have a Mophie battery case for my iPhone and the cable won't stay connected to the jack so it won't charge.

author: calzap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 06:38:37 am
content: "micro-USB connector much better than a mini-USB" Dave Jones. EEVblog 220.Mike in California

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 07:35:35 am
content: Micro is betterIFyou can hold it down. Those 'through-hole' tabs, they do nothing. They're too short to have enough wetted area, whereas mini connectors have huge tabs holding them to the PCB, and come in through-hole variants too.If your case design doesn't press the micro connector down hard onto the board, and hold it side to side, then it'll get torn off after the first hamfisted cable insertion / pull / drop with the cable in. If you're sure your product will only ever be treated gently, then micro will do (even if it's impossible to see which way up to insert the connector...)

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 08:33:12 am
content: Quote from: Precipice on November 04, 2014, 07:35:35 amtrue.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:20:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 04, 2014, 03:47:00 amYou must be kidding. There are more than billion micro usb cells phones sold every year and people charge them at least once a day.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 05:08:47 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 04, 2014, 08:33:12 amWith micro-usb you have try the connector always 3 times.1. Wont fit2. Wont fit either, had to be the other way.3. ConnectionI bet micro-usb development team included Mr. Schrödinger Mr. Heisenberg and Mr. Murpy

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 06:19:59 pm
content: Micro USB has a few disadvantages in imho, as you will read I'm not a big fan of it:- Orientation not easy distinguishable, connector looks almost rectangular. And, it will fit a few mm the wrong way! (USB C will solve this)- Connector doesn't seem to offer much support on the board. (USB C will also solve this, double holding clips)- Plug will only go in so far, it will not go in all the way as (mini-)b does. (probably because of included plastic case in products)- Wears out very quickly and then wont snap in very tight anymore. Like throwing a banana in the hallway. ( as will mini and normal B )Mini has disadvantages as well:- Larger than micro.- Also wears out the snap-in spring if cheap connectors are used.Normal B is a no go, unless your design requires a vertical PCB connector. Or if it will only see <100 mating cycles.After a lot more the hold-in force will be severely reduced and the lightweight USB JTAG adapter will just "fall of".Do not ever consider USB Mini A.

author: Araho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 07:37:05 pm
content: Sorry guys, but I totally disagree with most of you, especially from the consumers point of view. USB Mini sucks arse, it's the only ones I've had problems with.If you get the micro, definitely get the ones with through hole tabs. They add the needed mechanical strength that you otherwise would need a really good mechanical engineer for. Paste-in-Hole- soldering is no problem these days. And if you need several attempts daily to insert the Micro-cable, you must be severely lacking in either cognitive function, eyesight or have a cable that doesn't have an up-markingMost cables are different on either side, and you quickly learn which way your device needs it.Not to mention the fact that Micro USB is the standard connector for ALL mobile phones sold in Europe (Yes, even including Apple phones. In the future. Probably.) (Source:http://www.gizmag.com/standard-micro-usb-charger-europe/12108/). This means that your customer will without a doubt have an extra cable, probably even an AC-to-DC-adapter, spare, which makes it easier for them to bring your gizmo wherever they want.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 08:38:36 pm
content: Being a fan of Apple products, but not so much a fan of proprietary cables, I wish Apple had engineered the USB micro B standard rather than rolling their own. The Lightning cable is pretty fantastic, mechanically and in terms of current capacity.Micro B is just horrible. Alright for a Bluetooth earpiece that will be lost in two months anyway, but on bigger toys I tend to treat it like 0.2mm mechanical pencil lead.

author: hagster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 08:42:42 pm
content: Personally I prefer mini, but it's a depreciated standard so you really shouldn't be using on new designs. In practice there is nothing to stop you though.On a related point has anyone used the mid mount micro connectors? The look like the might get a bit of extra sideways rigidity from the pcb and they're thinner too.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 06:33:53 am
content: This post needs a illustration.The micro is smaller and last for more cycles, and have latching.They claim that the micro last for more cycles, but I this is probably laboratory tests, I'm not sure if it takes into account user fiddling to insert it, the female is pretty flimsy. The orientation is not obvious, and I've seen people trying to insert it the wrong way pretty hard and the connector come loose of the board and sticked out of the surface mount solder.The mini the orientation is more obvious here , and trying to insert it in the wrong way you can't insert it a couple millimeters giving you a false impression that it is right.

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 09:44:33 pm
content: The choice is up to you of course, but in principle the choice is governed by the USB standard.If your device is a USB host only you need to use the A type connector.If your device is a USB device only, you need to use the standard B or mini B.The micro B was introduced to support USB OTG. So use that if your device can be both a host our device.As far as I know micro B is not used for USB device only, but I stand to be corrected on that.So there you have it: my two cents

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 09:52:50 pm
content: The Mini AB also supports OTG - it's what the ID pin is there for (and the name is a hint

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 10:08:51 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 04, 2014, 01:42:39 amGet Micro-USB. Mini is basically obsolete and has been replaced with Micro.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Mini_and_Micro_connectorsQuoteBut soon all USB connectors (standard, mini and micro) will be replaced by a common the new Type-C reversible connector introduced with USB 3.1 (almost the same size as Micro-USB)Reversible USB Type-C connector finalized: Devices, cables, and adapters coming soonhttp://www.extremetech.com/computing/187882-reversible-usb-type-c-connector-finalized-devices-cables-and-adapters-coming-soonUSB Type-C connector will also support DisplayPort: Finally, one cable will fit every holehttp://www.extremetech.com/computing/190742-usb-type-c-connector-will-also-support-displayport-finally-one-cable-will-fit-every-holeDisplayPort Alternate Mode for USB Type-C Announcedhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mode-for-usb-typec-announcedUSB 3.1 And Its Disruptive USB Type-C Connectorhttp://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3.1-usb-type-c-connector,27796.html

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 11:05:42 pm
content: Another vote micro. Mini was an accident and manufacturers agreed to make it disappear in the long run.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 12:39:28 am
content: Yup -microis winning in anticipation of future reversible leads..Just need to ensure the connector and plug are well supported mechanically for a semi-permanent installation.Thanks for all the comments. QI

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 12:44:14 am
content: Another USB connector, andanotheroption for carrying video. Yeezus H Christo, just what we needed. Between the USB forum and HDMI, consumers are guaranteed to have the wrong cable for any given job.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 03:19:47 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 04, 2014, 03:20:22 pmAnd the phones are replaced before the connector starts to fail ..

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 03:50:48 am
content: My blackberry bold that is over 4 years old has not experienced any problem with the micro usb connector or anything else for that matter.But my daughter used to go through phones fasts usually with bent connectors. Until my wife and I decided to demote her phone and get her the cheapest one ever. Eventually we got her a new smartphone again, and she still has it.So bent connectors and all, I'll go with micro USB (btw she probably bent the minis but they are a bit more forgiving.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 09:30:52 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 07, 2014, 03:19:47 amwhen, not before.Dropping my phone while charging from micro-USB did for it. Fortunately, it's still got a real charge socket (Nokia), and bluetooth for data...We'll see how good these new USB3 wonder-sockets are, and whether there's a version that actually attaches to the PCB in a meaningful way. It's not as if it's been a process of continuous improvement on USB hardware so far.Since the cables are getting fatter , heavier and stiffer, I hope that there's at least some effort put into defending against the levering effect of the cable.Ah - the pictures from that earlier linkhttp://www.extremetech.com/computing/187882-reversible-usb-type-c-connector-finalized-devices-cables-and-adapters-coming-soondo suggest that they've listened to the whining about micro connectors being far too easy to tear off boards. Yay! (Although the standard calls it an 'optional hold down strap' - I hope it's the default on connectors.)Looking further at the standard, I can't help but think we'll be seeing older sockets being used on low volume maker-style hardware for a while longer, or maybe some connector manufacture producing an easy-to-solder USB2-only variant. The full socket, with its 24 pins hidden underneath, on 0.5mm pitch, isn't going to be trivial to assemble or inspect. Hmm, maybe we'll see pigtails on products?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 10:56:09 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 07, 2014, 03:19:47 amYour 'few dozen' doesn't account for over two and a half years of good service from mine.Perhaps you should stop being brutal and ignorant and treat it as an expensive, delicate device, not as a hammer looking for a nail.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 11:16:34 am
content: If you have an industrial or "more sturdy" application, USB B is the way to go (even for maintenance ports) and optionally USB Mini.Afaik there are no "weather & dirt proof" USB micro connectors available off-the-shelf. I have only been able to find 1 USB micro connector on Digikey that's panel mount, but had no dust cap to protect against dirt. I contacted some connector manufacturers and they had no plans whatsoever to make USB micro connectors in the future because they view them as consumer-grade connectors (and they don't make their money from consumers). They do have versions for USB B and mini. In that case you need to have them custom made.. but I don't need 5000 connectors for a small (<100 units) project.For normal applications I don't really mind any of the 3 connectors. Sometimes USB-B connectors aren't out of place if your board also has a RJ45 connector. Both connectors are tall by todays standards.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 11:18:39 am
content: I've never had any issues with Micro B ports, and it's what I usually use myself on projects. I still like Mini B, but I've had more issues with bad connections.At the end of the day, it's not like there is a huge difference.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 07:05:36 pm
content: Why isn't this a poll?

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 07:51:06 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on November 07, 2014, 07:05:36 pmIt's not tall enough.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 10:14:13 pm
content: I like mini B the best, because these are small and reliable. I do not like micro B too much (I had few incidents were connector were ripped with D+/D- copper traces from PCB, not even worth to repair).I think that micro B is not as reliable as mini B becauseit is not as firmly attached to pcb as mini Bit encounters much more violent insertions/extractionsit is harder to identify polarity.However, for a new product I would choose micro B because it is a new standard.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 11:09:28 pm
content: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Commercial-Products/MUSB-K152-30/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252bykyVH%2fhPQ59j80dFehTRqUy4%3dMicro, though hole, so they wont rip it off the PCB, though PCB slots to retain the connector, and screws to bolt it to the panel.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 11:13:15 pm
content: stay away from micro like the plage. They don't have proper thru-hole pins , or if they do they are for .8mm thick boards or less ) so they break off the boards, ripping off the pads an all. i hate those micro connectors. Mini is still somewhat ok.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2014, 09:35:30 am
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 07, 2014, 10:14:13 pmI don't really understand this. It's worse, but it's newer. Well, screw that, I'll sit this one out, and if the next new standard is better, I'll move to that.(Also, imagine my delight when a drawing came in today for a new design. Vertical micro USB socket... Three reasonably sturdy through-board pins, but the same old five 0.5mm pads. If the connector flexes at all, off they'll pop. I've asked the mechanical guy for as much support and cable guiding as he can give me, but I've still got a bad feeling about this.)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2014, 03:09:19 pm
content: I guess this is a significant argument in choosing connectors.grid 1mmThe micro one might be a bit hard to solder...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2014, 04:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on November 08, 2014, 03:09:19 pmReflowing shouldn't be a problem.BTW, the two footprints are bad, no through hole support. Will peel easily. Even vias should improve significantly.And while on the topic of micro USB, I got on amazon an micro usb cable set like this one and am very happy with it. The colors allow to distringuish between cables, being flat they don't entangle and I was able to charge my Nexus 5 a 1A and they cost ~$1 each.