Need help with china milling table - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 05:36:15 pm
content: Improved version with bearingshttps://www.ebay.com/itm/322815182306Looks wery attractive but who use in fact?I wanna buy one for my small drill press (DIY PCBs only)Is it affordable?Is it scrap?Any ideas?

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 06:08:06 pm
content: Looks fine for what it is. I assume it is made from cast iron and not aluminium?

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 06:27:36 pm
content: Noit is 100% extruded aluminiumlike CNC machines frames

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 06:56:51 pm
content: You can try to find this exact model on AliExpress or Banggood and see whether there are any reviews.However, I think the only way to find out for sure would be to order one. For $60 it is not terrible even if it was scrap. AVE actually has the older model in one of his videos, he bought it for $12 bucks:https://youtu.be/xY-wXcFhx5w?t=210He then upgraded it with KT 150 from Proxxon - but that table is like $200.https://youtu.be/gXvaZImOTbc?t=16

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 07:19:16 pm
content: No! It is simplified version on videoMy link is for improoved variant:- 10mm vs 8mm rods- 65mm vs 50mm axis- Trust bearings on both axis- DieCast aluminium details vs plastic- Wider cart

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 07:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 10, 2018, 07:19:16 pmI have said that it is the older variant- according to what your seller has in his posting. He talks about it being the upgraded version and has the older one which matches what AVE bought there photographed. So yes, it is not the exact same slide, I am aware of it.But it should give you a ballpark idea of quality - even the old one was usable for some basic milling, so unless you get a badly mangled piece (QC from China can be hit and miss), the upgraded version should be able to do at least that.

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 07:36:57 pm
content: I don't think that counts as a "test gear" (this particular subforum...) but, I guess someone will relocate this thread somewhere more appropriate.Anyway, I happen to have similar one, and it is perhaps produced by multiple manufacturers... Mine is quite poor quality: the aluminum base has even a hole in it (still sturdy enough), the handles/lead screws have quite a bit of slack, the sliding has quite a bit of slack (this is possible to tighten up, but it is hard metal sliding against softer metal, so it has its limits), and IIRC, my setup was missing one advertised attachment part (no biggie, I would likely end up getting different items from shop anyway).Still good enough for small hobby stuff.Seems one can now get these for even cheaper than back then, and at the same time get more stuff with it.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 10:12:58 pm
content: Actually, here you have the same thing from AliExpress for half the price:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Pc-Mini-Multifunctional-Cross-Working-Table-Slide-Table-Support-For-Drilling-Milling-Machine-Bench-Drill-Stent/32851401698.htmlOr, for the same price as that eBay seller a cast iron/steel slide (not aluminium/plastic):https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Premium-Compound-Cross-Slide-Working-Table-Adjustment-X-Y-Milling-Working-Cross-Table-Bench/32852507331.html

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 11:18:19 pm
content: It's a misnomer to call it a "milling table". The proper use is for positioning drill holes precisely.If the chuck is permanently mounted to the spindle as is the case with some small, cheap drill presses, you can mill aluminum with something like this, but it will not be very accurate.I found one on eBay for $22 US with ePacket shipping and placed an order. I've got a nice Clausing mill, but I don't have an XY table for my drill press. I recently drilled some holes freehand with a portable drill motor after careful layout and center punching which did *not* come out as nicely as I wanted. I''ll mount this on a Harbor Freight $50 tabletop drill press just for PCB drilling. This is just the ticket for light duty work.If you need to drill 0.1" spaced holes in a PCB, this is what you want. You *might* get away with milling with, but you might also get a chuck and mill in the face. So be safe. In any case, a drill press is not designed to take the lateral loads of milling and will flex a lot. The base of this unit looks to be made out of ABS plastic, so it will flex even more.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 01:10:36 am
content: Quote from: 001 on April 10, 2018, 05:36:15 pmPretty sure only you can answer that.

author: bicycleguy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 01:50:57 am
content: Maybe you should post here?https://www.cnczone.com/forums/metalworking-machines/

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 02:23:58 am
content: Quote from: bicycleguy on April 11, 2018, 01:50:57 amMachinists are generally not all that attuned to the needs of electronics enthusiasts. There are probably quite a few people in this forum who have full metalworking facilities. I know of at least two.BTW While the table would not do for milling metal, it would work just fine for cutting the copper foil on a PCB. If you want to automate that then the CNC sites are the place to go unless you want to build your own hardware and write your own software. I don't recommend that as just buying an Arduino Mega 256 and a 3D printer stepper driver board is much more efficient in terms of both time and money.

author: bicycleguy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 03:22:45 am
content: Quote from: rhb on April 11, 2018, 02:23:58 amI cnc'd my milling machine with eBay 1/2HP DC servo motors with help from their forums on drivers, sensors, electronics, software and parts scrounging. They have lots of real world experience both DIY and professional.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 12:54:39 pm
content: The CNC faction is quite knowledgeable about electronics, at least within the sphere of CNC. I take Home Shop Machinist, Machinist's Workshop and Digital Machinist. So I see the spectrum of that readership.The fabrication issues for electronics are enough different from regular metalwork, that I really think we should have a sub-forum devoted to that. A lot of times the best answer is an alternate solution. And for many projects putting things in a nice enclosure is a substantial portion of the work and cost.I'm looking forward to my table arriving. When it does I'll post my observations and how to align it, correct backlash and adjust the ways. Many thanks to the OP for calling attention to these. All the tables I knew of were cast iron and much too heavy for a small drill press.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 05:26:59 pm
content: I got my table from local toy shop for about $60 todayIt is not milling unit anyway but Trust bearings is greatest impruvement against first generation and movement is easyLooks like bigger clone of Proxxon KT70 -- crap aluminium, not cast ironBut I hope It will be useable for pcb drilling for yearsNow It works from a box without any tuning

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:24:52 pm
content: If you are going to use it only for drilling you shouldn't have too many problems - drilling puts very little load on such slide, so with a bit of care it will last pretty much forever. Milling would be another matter.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 10:01:25 pm
content: Mine finally came. The first seller substituted a really poor quality vise for the table. They even went so far as to change the picture and description after I bought it. I got a full refund today.When the vise came I ordered one of the XY tables for ~$36 from a US shipper. They are quite nice. A very modest amount of tuning and it should do a really fine job on a $50 Harbor Freight bench drill press. These are not suitable for milling loads greater than the copper foil on a PCB. The motion *can* be made *very* accurate if you understand how to adjust such things and how to scrape surfaces. But they won't take any significant loads.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 10:56:48 pm
content: I put mine on a surface plate with a 0.0001" dial indicator and also the table against a 0.001"/3' straight edge. The table as received was flat to about 0.003-0.005". Most of the error was a small ridge in the extrusion at the edges. I removed that by lapping it lightly on a surface plate with 240 and 600 grit wet or dry sandpaper. You can just see where I removed a little metal at the edge in the 2nd photo. The diagonally opposite corners had ridgesI also lapped the base on a surface plate using 100 and 240 grit, just enough to make it sit flat. It tuned up quite nicely. I still have more measurements to make, but I really like the design and construction. It's very clever and the quality of the extrusions is amazing. They have a better grade version with aluminum rather than plastic endcaps which is mentioned in the manual, but I've not seen it offered for sale that I know of. . The endcaps do have a piece of steel plate in them., So it's not clear that metal endcaps would actually be better. There is no information at all about who makes these anywhere on the packaging manual or table.I adjusted the gibs and applied some white lithium grease to the screws and ways. There is almost no play in the table and it runs smoothly from end to end. I had it adjusted so there was no play detectable by hand, but the table bound near the end of travel so I had to loosen it slightly. That's normal even for top of the line machine tools after being used for a while.As noted previously, it's for drilling, but I think a 1/16" end mill would mill PCB copper, but that is the absolute limit of the milling capacity.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 07:35:21 pm
content: That looks like a pretty decent product, especially given the price(Similar Proxxon table, ugggh - 180 euro ... But it is Proxxon and known quality)The metal endcaps could help with stiffness a little (it won't twist) but for the loads this is going to realistically see it probably wouldn't matter much.Re milling - I think you could safely mill some thin plastic on it too without problems, e.g. to make a cutout in an enclosure or a front panel.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 10:19:26 pm
content: I agree, it should handle milling a switch or connector opening in plastic. Not so sure about 0.065" aluminum though. It's quite light. I'll probably make aluminum plates for the ends from some 1/4" plate I have. But I don't really think it matters. the thin extrusions are a bigger limitation.I discovered that the engraved collars are a pretty poor fit. One is *very* loose. They're also hard to read. Unfortunately, I didn't notice until after I had adjusted the gibs and I really don't feel like repeating that right now. The screw appears to be +/- 0.001" in one turn of 0.050" travel. Backlash is about 0.005-0.007" which is not bad for a simple brass nut. One could slit the brass nut if one wanted to eliminate the backlash, but I'm more likely to just fit it with some modified $10 digital calipers.Both the table and the cross ways are an extrusion There's a die cast base and carriage, each attached by four screws. So it's pretty flexible. But with digital readouts it should be great for drilling PCB holes for a 20 pin header and such.I fitted a gib to the quill guide on the $50 HF drill press. That helped a lot, but there is still too much slop so I'll have to investigate further to see what else I need to do. But I think with digital readouts and the quill tight I can get 0.005" hole placement accuracy for a net investment of $110 and a little sweat equity.