Solder Station Shootout - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Markybhoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2010, 11:17:34 am
content: Seems to be loads to choose from these days.Also any solder / desolder tips would be cool.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2010, 04:52:30 pm
content: There are 3 general types: unregulated, variable power, and temperature regulated. The price rises with each type. There are complex ways to do the 3rd mode, so prices vary quite a bit. Alas, the higher you go, the more the soldering tip maybe expensive, hard to find, or at times worse, the whole rig can be finicky requiring replacement of heating elements whereas most el cheapos seem to never die; they just fade away.The first is just a heater, it outputs say 30W continuously, no adjustment, just plug in the wall and go.The second has some form of power output adjustment, so not to overheat delicate items like SMTs. Its drawback is that the tip temperature cannot be guaranteed, so if it cools from repeated use, or used on a large surface that draws heat, this type will provide its output setting regardless.The final has some feedback thermal probe, so the tip is kept at the precise temperature as selected regardless of what it contacts and changes in the environment.http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm#statsIf you're starting out, a basic pencil soldering iron typically goes for $5-10. However, there is a Chinese variable power one for $10-20; they are sold under at least, Velleman, Elenco, Stahl brands. If you intend to do surface mount really soon, find a replacement sharp tip for the Velleman or consider the right pictured item, the Weller WES51. As expected, the Velleman tips $1-3, Weller $5-10. Weller has a version of the adjustable power Chinese one, WLC100 sells for ~ $50.http://www.uchobby.com/index.php/2007/12/09/15-soldering-station-review/http://www.omnikits.com/phpstore/index.php?action=item&id=1028&prevaction=pricelistWhich to choose?For occassional use, such as quick repair, the unregulated will do.For hobby and low volume part assembly use, the next. In my experience, most devices these days have low parts count, so this type is cost effective. Its cheap to buy tips, and worse case, buy a new one if it dies. If you need to regulate the probe tip to a specific temperature, I monitor heat output at times with a IR thermometer that I found in Chinatown for $5:If you assemble kits often or build/repair devices with large number of parts, the professional one reduce the risk of you damaging parts and make it comfortable to use for long hours.

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2010, 05:28:38 pm
content: I like weller, edsyn and metcal.Edsyn stuff works really well, and you can find them fairly heavily discounted new but they're spendy. the zd500dx i've found to be a great desoldering tool, but its really good if you're doing lots of work, or very expensive stuff. the hakko 808 can be good but its easier to lift pads with it than the zd500dx i've found.The 951SX is a good ironhttp://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=951SXfor $149 and you can buy the parts for it, down to a circuit board. Edsyn are close by me and i pop in there and pick up stuff, they're a friendly bunch. Its dod/mil/esd etc. and instead of just saying its certified with a fake sticker like some of the knockoffs, its actually certified, if thats important to you.The thing i like about the ZD500 for desoldering is that the sucked up solder doesn't go into a cartridge as such, it usually drops off back into the holster so it doesn't get blocked as much, so it requires less cleaning. It doesn't end up back on the board either, since the air is activated as soon as you remove it from the holster.i like my weller microfine tips for GP soldering, its cheap and cheerful, portable and reliable.but my iron of choice for the bench,for soldering, desoldering and rework is the metcal 500If you do choose to go metcal, don't buy it new, get it off ebay, but be prepared to get into bidding warsand keep trying. you can also pick up tips from ebay too, which is a lot cheaper of course they're often used, but they're usually coming from bankruptcy stuff, so theres also lots of new ones cheap too. Then prepare to get into flame wars on t'internet about what a waste of money it is (even though you bought i used for about the same price and its still better than most of the new ones at that price) and you can buy a modified hair curler for a quid that people can solder two 0402 parts at once while hanging upside down from a hot air ballon in a strong wind.But one new tip for a metcal can cost the same as a 15W weller iron, and the temperature is set by the tip type so you do need a few of them, again ebay a job lot, you can get a wide range of tips, wands, talons and power block for about the price of a chinese rework unit, and the tips last.the usual buy what you need applies here, if you're soldering daily consider a good comfortable iron, one with auto shut off and the handle doesn't get stupid hot. if you're not, get a cheap iron, i'd go with the wellers.

author: cybergibbons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2010, 08:47:48 pm
content: I can second Metcal. I have one of the lower end (PS-800E) soldering irons, which uses a lower frequency (400kHz rather than 13Mhz I think...), but still with the same self-regulating tips. I got it at a sale price from Farnell, and I can say it is really worth it.

author: Markybhoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2010, 10:19:21 pm
content: Ive been looking at a few stations im just a hobbyist but the last generic temperature controlled station I bought from Maplins failed after 2 uses ! so will buy something half decent this time.Weller - Always seem to get good reviews kinda pricy in the UKHakko - Seem well recommended but hard to get in UKMetcal - Great write-ups and many seem to think they are the best.Tips look expensive and heard quite a few mention tip failure.Xytronic - Seen a lot of people recommend them, seem fairly priced.Antex - There normal irons seem ok, not heard much about there stations.Jbc - Heard they are ment to be quite good.Edsyn - Not familiar with them will look into it.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2010, 11:44:17 pm
content: Well ,as one Generic successful design I will present this one ...I got it used at 1995 , and still works !!No matter the brand that you will found it , it just works well, and its low priced .Prices in EUR - base station - extra iron - nose

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 12:37:40 am
content: I'd stick to the metcal 500 series or newer, the newest ones are branded as OKI. The SP200 has different tips. However if you buy new tips and they fail early, metcal/oki usually will deal with it for you, they are an enterprise level company.I have not had a tip fail yet on the 500, i did hear about some failed sp200 tips, but it seems to be all the same batch. they use rf and not heater cores, so usually a bit more stable and if you look after them, they ought to last for ages. Its also hard to say whats the ratio of tip failure on the metcals to others, since there is no real data.google metcal and see what people say about them, usually expensive but good. I switched from weller to edsyn ( i have a 1036/zd500and 951) which i really liked both as a brand and as an iron, but then once i started use the metcal its quite different, much more comfortable to use and great temperature stability.Like i said though, horses for courses. I want an iron i know won't screw up a PCB that costs in excess of 10x the iron, and too many of the chinese ones fake certifications.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 01:10:14 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on June 06, 2010, 11:44:17 pmI had this exact station as my first soldering station. I used the sponge on the top for a couple years until I accidentally spilled water down the front face, which leaked into the unit from the front face and shorted out the electronics. I bought a few extra tips for it and never used any of them since the original tip lasted the two years I had it.I think a shootout is a little premature, and maybe just an episode that discusses these features of soldering stations, pros and cons, and what to look for.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 04:01:37 am
content: Perhaps a way to get a cheap temperature regulated iron is to buy a good unregulated one, then add a thermocouple to the tip along with a temperature controller?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 08:52:45 am
content: Quote from: TheDirty on June 07, 2010, 01:10:14 amIf you offer them as gift , send me one PM .In return you will get Greek Post cards

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 06:12:47 pm
content: see what i mean.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 08:39:19 pm
content: Quote from: charliex on June 07, 2010, 12:37:40 amI think that you are overreacting ... its like asking accuracy from a toaster ..The correct temperature , and longevity , is all that matters , at the medium priced tools.

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2010, 11:52:19 pm
content: Yeah I'm not.. ESD matters, ergonomics matter, safety, repeatability, accountabilty etc.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2010, 06:26:40 am
content: For a complete amateur a cheap $10 soldering iron would do fine. Then as we advance get one with temperature control, digital display, auto shut down, sleep mode, good ergonomics, stylish, etc... The more expensive one is better built with longer, beefier cord for the outlet and more heat resistance cord in case we accidentally touch the wire with our soldering iron.Unlike the multimeter, I am thinking as one become really good in soldering, they can solder no matter what crap they use. Just touch the solder to the iron, and a professional could tell if the heat is too high or low.Just tell people to stay away from sub $5 iron, the cold heat crap, and the cordless ones.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2010, 01:28:58 pm
content: Yes, if you just review the parts count it would cost near a low cost temp controlled Weller and most difficult, is to make it ergonomic. The ergonomics are important for it to be used properly.If any USA user is interested, the IR thermometer I mentioned is at Harbor Freight:http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-pocket-thermometer-93983.htmlQuote from: NiHaoMike on June 07, 2010, 04:01:37 am

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2010, 04:39:43 pm
content: QuoteSee this is part of the problem as i see it, the logic/advice is amateurs should buy a cheap iron because someone who's really good at soldering can solder anything with it, and then learn it. It just seems like a strange suggestion, buy a 600HP viper as your first car to learn to race, because experts can handle it perfectly, i doubt anyone would give that advice.Soldering irons aren't like scopes, they don't get harder to use as you get a better one, they should get easier , and they do.While i've never suggested everyone must buy something like a metcal, at least get a decent iron from a well known company like weller, they're not that much more. For instance a common iron i see people with thats cheap is the radio shack one, the temperature of the handle gets to about 120F within a short time.

author: Markybhoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2010, 05:52:21 pm
content: I thought about getting a 2nd hand metcal but being old and used I was a bit weary how long the supply would last.In the end I opted to get a Xytronic lf1600 which hopefully will serve me well.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2010, 05:05:25 am
content: charliex,When I am talking about cheap meter, I was talking about such meter as this one. It's a Madell digital soldering station. I got it cheap as an open box item from Harbor Freight for $35 dollars. Maybe that is why I consider it a cheap soldering station.http://cgi.ebay.com/SMT-SMD-SOLDERING-STATION-AT201D-/220617272808?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335dd06de8It's the exact meter as the radio shack one, just rebranded. I think this is the one you were referring to. And yes the temperature does get fast in seconds.http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3132686&CAWELAID=182978274I wouldn't go back to a cheaper unit without temperature controls and digital display. I bought a cordless Weller and it went straight into the trash the first week. And I irk at every soldering station without a digital display and temperature control even if it is name brand.That Madell/Radio Shack soldering station is really good for beginners. I understand the need for a good multimeter being that it has to be super accurate and recalibrated. However, I have never heard of recalibrating a soldering iron and if alot of people are willing to buy a non-digital temperature display soldering stations (they're nuts if they buy one), there should be no complaint against a Madell/Radio Shack unit. It's like they've been soldering blind, and now you put glasses on them and they complained that it's not clear enough?Don't get me wrong the Madell/RS unit should be the bottom of the litter on soldering stations. Anything below this on features and quality is not worth buying.

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2010, 06:55:58 am
content: Cross porpoises we're at I think, the cheap radio shack iron i mean is the simple handle one, the actual handle you hold is what gets hot. Not the temp controlled ones.Very very few people would need a soldering iron calibration, but it's there if you are one of those people. In my experience of these things you only need them when stuff goes wrong, or you're working with a company that just has an automatic requirement for that sort of thing, they just pick procedures and say, follow those.http://www.microprecision.com/equipment/Metcal-CALIBRATION.htmlAfter i've done something stupid or broken something, I want to have a good reason for it, I guess in a lot of ways its more for the non engineers to be ok with, people who like certifications and fortune 500 crap.All I'm really trying to say is, (and its hard to make it sound causal on forums when you end up talking about it a lot, and the finer points) that you can buy a used very good station (doesn't have to be metcal) from ebay for about the price of a new off brand soldering station, no different to the scopes. Buying from ebay can be potluck, but these things are built to be total workhorses, day in day out. I saw a metcal MX500 go for $165 today, and I bought 5 brand new surplus tips for $22. Thats a great deal I think.But then I send my fluke DMM in for calibration testing every so often, its not that expensive and they just report one what its doing, and I do factory recommended servicing on my carbut i don't buy extended warranties !I just never understand the advice to buy a cheap iron as a newbie, because good to expert solderer's can solder anything with it ( and personally i don't believe thats true either) but as I said before, horses for courses, get something that matches what you use it for. I really do find the wand a lot more comfortable after 6 odd hours of soldering, which again is what its designed for. But I'm also quite happy with my little 15W weller micro iron.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2010, 04:02:08 pm
content: We need cheap stuffs to entice & trap newbies into our world. Electronics is a very expensive hobby, and we don't want to scare them off with the price tag.Even if we tell them to buy decent products, they, themselves, can't justified having to buy quality products, which are often more expensive, when they haven't even solder a single joint yet. Also, they might only be temporarily interested in electronics. It could be just a phase they're going through.

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2010, 04:41:31 pm
content: Circle of life mate, thats one of the reasons eBay existsits full of disillusioned hobbyists. The other side of the coin is, that they get frustrated and find it harder because they're using cheap tools with fluctuating temperatures and massive tips.so how about some low cost iron suggestionsits 12W so i only use it for surface mount IC stuff generally, though i do do a lot of GP work with it, just no heatsinkshttp://www.amazon.com/Weller-WM120-120v-Pencil-Soldering/dp/B0000WT586good GPhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/popups/sl325.htmcheaper marksman versionshttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/popups/sp12.htmmore GPhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/popups/sp23l.htmhttp://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1276101154&sr=1-1-spellhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/solder/wes51.htmone of thesehttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/fumeextraction/wsa350.htm#00031833

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2010, 02:07:22 am
content: The Metcal STSS-002 is also worth looking out for on ebay (e.g.This one) - the only difference between this older model and the MX500 is it only has one output.The recently launched MX-5000 is even better - more power! With a small tip, it will melt solder in about 5 seconds from switch-on!

author: allanw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2010, 04:15:50 am
content: How about this place? I'm considering getting the $30 analog one. Seems like they work okay from random forum posts elsewhere.http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/6388

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2010, 06:19:13 pm
content: Never heard of them before. They look Ok, they're mostly knock off designs or same sourced manufacturer, some look like metcal copies ( but without the stuff that makes metcal good ), others csi, aoyue. Looking at the poor quality manual they're more than likely rebadged china origin.

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2010, 10:45:04 am
content: I'm a fan of Hakko- A quick wipe on a sponge or in steel wool and the tips come up like new. Good, consistent heating and (depending on models) a tip selection that leaves little to be desired. The 701 that I use at work is fantastic for everything but lifting SMDs.However, when work isn't paying and a mere mortal's budget is involved, I get by with a cheap Weller mains-direct job. For whatever reason, 240V Hakko stations don't seem to make eBay or the 'net generally...I've looked at some of the stations at Jaycar (an Australian electronics chain), who seem to be mad keen on "Goot", a Japanese brand. I've never heard much about them, but I'm curious. I can either be gouged by local distributors for Hakko, take a punt and get a Weller from Tequipment, or try the Goot stuff from Jaycar...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2010, 03:42:31 pm
content: Metcal is undoubtedly the best all-round iron, and can often be found fairly cheap on ebay,a s can tips - look for MX500 or the older STSS-002 - only difference is the 500 has the dual switched output. Note they are not 110/220v switchable so beware of US imports.Tips last almost forever if properly cared for, more so if you avoid leadfree. The only tips I replace with any regularity are the super-fiine points maybe twice a year of daily use, and that's often due to physical damage rather than plating failure.I don't know if it is still the case, but they used to guarantee the heater for the lifetime of the tip plating - I've had tips with bad heaters replaced in the past but haven't had a bad heater for a few years so maybe they've improved.I recently upgraded to the MX-5000, which has a nice power display on the front, and more power - a small tip will go from cold to melting solder in under five seconds!The main benefit of Metrcal irons is they will pump a shitload of heat into a big joint with no overshoot, so one minute you can be soldering 0.5mm pitch TSOPs with a super-fine point, then swap tips for a big chunky one and within 30 secs be soldering TO220 tabs to copper groundplanes with ease. (I've found the big tips are also handy for reflowing QFNs by heating the underside).The very close handle-to-tip distance (and no hot handles!) also makes them ergonomically better than any iron I've ever used. The new handles that come with the MX5000 are slightly better - they even come with a choice of rubber grips (ribbed for your soldering pleasure!).Their desolder gun is also excellent, particularly on through-hole and multilayer, but you do need an air supply for it.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2010, 11:59:12 pm
content: In my 15 years expirience in electronic repair business I tested most of the tools available on market, these includes: Hakko, Pace, Weller, Ersa, JBC, Den-On, Iskra, Goot.JBC soldering stations are so advanced that no other vendor compare to them. I have AD4300 dual station, once turned on it melt solder in 2 seconds.Yes - 2 seconds!!!This is only station that can handle multilayer lead-free boards very well.JBC tips last 4-5 years!Second one I would say ERSA and Pace.Did not have a chance to test Metcal, I would love to test one of those