New dubunk? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: zerorisers
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 01:26:53 am
content: Illumask is a product I just saw on tv that uses light to rid of acne. This seems to me completely false. If it is. Please debunk it. If not then please explain to me how and why it works. Thank you.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 01:40:05 am
content: Quote from: zerorisers on March 26, 2015, 01:26:53 am"I'm too lazy to do any reading or research on how it might work and because I don't understand it I'm scared of it. Please do all the work for me and break it down into bite sized pieces written in crayola on butchers paper so I understand it" ?How about doing some research and coming back with a theory or two.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 01:40:58 am
content: I don't think many dermatologists hang around here, maybe mtdoc is the most qualified in this forum for medical things.I didn't look at the specifics or if it uses UV light, but UV light can kill bacteria, and I don't know if acne is bacteria in the skin, but if you can get that UV light with the necessary safety precautions then it could be true.But I'm just guessing since I'm not a physician.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 02:14:22 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on March 26, 2015, 01:40:58 amBacteria isn't the cause, but its usually what turns a small problem in to a bigger one. Hence, all those antiseptic face washes for teenagers on the pharmacy shelves. Wouldn't UV that could kill bacteria be rather harmful to eyes, and a potential cause of skin cancer?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 02:20:39 am
content: Like I said, I didn't look at the specifics and if it uses UV light it should have the necessary safety precautions.I just didn't want to research this in depth or at all

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 02:32:35 am
content: UV radiation has a long history of use for skin conditions, it is effective at treating psoriasis, for example.There is a danger from exposure to the "wrong" wavelengths of UV: UVB causes tanning, but tanning beds emit much more UVA, which beside not causing tanning, leads to increased melanoma. For a consumer product that emits UV into the face the greatest hazard is going to be to the eyes. Even brief exposure to bright UV can damage them.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 02:38:37 am
content: Ok, so I did look it up a little, it's not UV based, I was guessing and guessed wrong.It's red/bluehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16766484Combined with red/infraredhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16414908

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 02:56:40 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on March 26, 2015, 02:38:37 amInfra red suggests they are just trying to warm the skin surface to expand the pores, make them sweat more and push out some of the gunk that causes the acne spots. That's an old approach. People used to tell us to warm our faces by the fire when I was a teenager, and it did seem to be somewhat effective.

author: zerorisers
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 03:11:53 am
content: sounds reasonable to me. But would the infared be enough to open the pores To the point it Can treat acne properly and fully? Is it actually readable? If so I can just wire up some infant red LED'S I have laying about And do it myself for cheaper.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 04:02:21 am
content: Quote from: zerorisers on March 26, 2015, 01:26:53 amI have zero knowledge about medicine and dermatology, what makes you think I can debunk such a medical device?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 04:18:50 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on March 26, 2015, 01:40:58 amWell I'm just a lowly family doc - I don't make the big bucks like the dermatologists. But I do treat a lot of acne and skin diseases (I live in a semi rural area that only has 2 dermatologists within 50 miles - both with long waitlists and restricrtive insurance acceptance). Acne is more an inflammatory issue than infection and the antibiotics that are effective work in part by reducing inflammation.UV light has been tried for decades to treat acne. I remember getting UV light treatments as a teenager at the dermatology office!I don't think it is very effective (and has risks) and the drugs they have now to treat acne work really well most of the time. I'm sure if this device really works it will be widely adopted.And before the traditional medical drug haters chime in let me say I agree that big Pharma has way too much influence which is why I almost never prescribe non generic (still under patent, expensive) drugs unless there is no alternative. I don't talk to drug reps and we don't allow them to set foot in our office! I also encourage non-drug treatments whenever possible. Acne happens to be one of those diseases that drugs do work on and better than any non-drug treatment I am aware of. I'd be happy if I could prescribe an inexpensive electronic device to effectively treat acne!

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 04:28:29 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on March 26, 2015, 02:38:37 amOK not UV. Those are some pretty small, low power studies with few subjects. But it does look like it has potential. The problem is that unless treating with the device is more effective or less expensive than current treatment options it is unlikely to get much traction. Those studies are several years old suggesting that must be the case. But there are always plenty of people ready to pony up for something, anything that will allow them to avoid a trip to the doctor. Understandable, but not always the best choice...

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 09:53:10 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on March 26, 2015, 04:18:50 amI don't classify Accutane as *safe*, though it is no doubt very effective!I had horrible acne as a teen and into my early 20's. If you looked pizza face up in the dictionary my high school graduation photo would be there.When I turned 20 I realized I wasn't growing out of it. My first dermatologist put me on an oral minocyclin and an antibiotic/peroxide cream regiment. It cleared the acne up, but after being on both for a year I suddenly began experiencing intense joint pain and swelling. Three separate doctors couldn't figure out what was going on until I stumbled on an article at LUPUS.org about Drug Induced Lupus. Guess what antibiotic was one of the 50 or so drugs on their list known to cause DIL? Yup! XD (One doctor did have me stop taking the antibiotic for two weeks to see if it was the cause, but it's a fat soluble drug so the symptoms didn't go away straight off. Once I finally figured it out, it took almost 5 weeks before things started getting better.)Sadly it left me with permanent joint damage. I ended up going through a course of Accutane; despite all the danger associated with it, that shit is a miracle drug. Not one acne breakout since!I've since wondered why antibiotics are prescribed so much for acne treatment. I know my particular case was one in a million, but antibiotics are already way over prescribed in general (I'm looking at you, GPs). We're just engineering deadlier viruses, right?Sent from my Smartphone

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 12:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: zerorisers on March 26, 2015, 03:11:53 amAs a practical matter, you can not save money by building something that you could just go to the store and buy.So no, you cannot just wire up some LED's and do the same thing for cheaper.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 12:58:23 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on March 26, 2015, 04:18:50 amMy girlfriend is a dermatologist, and she stopped praticing to instead do sales for a drug company. She is young, blond and pretty and I think they realized the importance of that when they hired her

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 01:02:20 pm
content: Timb,Sorry to hear about your reaction to minocycline - very rare. Unfortunately,notreatment is 100 % safe -even herbal treatment, etc.. It's always a matter of balncing risk/benefit.Yes Accutane is very effective for a specific type of acne (nodular cystic) and yes it is potentially very dangerous especially in pregnancy. Because of that in the US you need a special license to prescribe it.I agree that antibiotics are overused. But the biggest offenders are not doctors but the livestock industry. Antibiotics are not effective against viruses- it is bacterial resistance to antibiotics that is the problem. Most infections are viral which is part of the problem, many patients demand that you treat their viral illness- usually a common cold - with a antibiotic.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2015, 01:24:49 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on March 26, 2015, 01:02:20 pmRight, that's what I meant, antibiotic resistant bacteria; sorry I said viruses. People get a cold and think antibiotics help. *Facepalm*I hadn't thought about the livestock industry, but that's a very good point!When I went through my Accutane treatment, the FDA had just introduced iPLEDGE, which kind of made it a PITA for everyone involved (the dermatologist, myself and the pharmacist) but I've heard it's a lot more streamlined now. I have a lady friend who went through treatment a couple of years back, and her dermatologist made her start an oral contraceptive *and* a diaphragm, plus promise to use condoms. They take that birth defect shit seriously!Despite the hassles, I consider it a miracle drug. I went from having super oily skin to very dry skin in 3 months time. The only downside is I have to use expensive CeraVe lotion in the winter, and I'll most likely age and wrinkle faster now.Sent from my Smartphone