I bought a used Dell M6800: what tests to run? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 11:49:49 pm
content: Oh, in all these years I have never noticed there was a computers section! Thanks Halcyon for moving it here.I kind of haphazardly bought a used M6800 with i74910qm and Nvidia Quadro k3100 (I don't care about graphics), 32 GB ram, 512+960 SSD.I already ran the built in diagnostic and found out that the supposedly new battery was manufactured in 2015 and is reaching end of life (I wonder why 😱 - seller already agreed to replace it).Also the supposedly 240w power supply is only 180w (again, promised to replace that as well).The 32 GB of memory are all 1600mhz but of three different manufacturers. Shouldn't they be identical in pairs?I am a bit out of sync with hardware specs, so, what are the test programs I should run on this system (right now windows 10 not activated since they botched the installation disk - looks promising, right?)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 12:39:34 am
content: You can try this:https://silver.urih.com/Don't try it with Firefox though, it's slow as a dog on it - use Chrome or Chromium. Curious to see what you'll get.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 01:00:50 am
content: Memtest86+LinpackClean the heatsinks first.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 01:13:59 am
content: Quote from: Sredni on November 17, 2023, 11:49:49 pmNot really. Mixed sticks of RAM should work without a problem, with the caveat that all modules just run at whatever the lowest speed and longest CAS latency of any single module is.Ideally you want the specifications to be the same, particularly if the machine supports dual-channel memory.In your case, the machine won't support 32 GB RAM that's faster than 1600 MHz, so if you are looking to replace it, don't waste your money on anything faster.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 03:21:59 am
content: I ran both the bios and win10 memory test and both passed. I will try memtest and the other progs tomorrow, thank you.Also, what programs to assess performance? I am currently airgapped so I can't run the online test. Is sysmark still a thing?In the meantime, I have found a very peculiar loss of time., by taking pictures of the windows time when the battery is 100% and the system is attached to the power supplyEDIT: I had some computation botched, the corrected andupdatedtable is this:Pic taken on OS shows -deltaT (dd:hh:mm) comments_________________________________________________________-- still disconnected from power18 nov 17:07 15 nov 18:46 02:22:21 seems stable now-- turned on disconnected from power: battery at 98%-- disconnected from power with battery at 99%18 nov 05:51 15 nov 07:30 02:22:21-- turn off with battery at 100% disconnected power supply18 nov 05:19 15 nov 06:58 02:22:2118 nov 05:04 15 nov 06:43 02:22:2118 nov 04:47 15 nov 06:26 02:22:2118 nov 03:54 15 nov 05:33 02:22:21 two hours lost when doing 2h memtest--mem test--18 nov 01:54 15 nov 05:06 02:20:4817 nov 23:47 15 nov 04:41 02:19:0617 nov 23:22 15 nov 04:16 02:19:06-- from now on, connected to power supply17 nov 20:29 15 nov 04:05 02:16:24 a lot of time lost when battery connected16 nov 02:19 15 nov 03:24 00:22:55 time lost when battery disconnected-- battery disconnected15 nov it was ok airgapped, on power, battery always inCan this be a simple case of dying CMOS battery? The system is not connected to the internet, so it cannot sync the time. It was fine two days ago, but then after the main battery failed to power on the system (because it was new in 2015!) and I got it powered by the supply, time was crazy.I hope this is is not some hardware damage to the mobo...Anyone has ever experienced this? I once had a CMOS battery die on me, but the time was reset to the date of manufacturing, not one or two days before present time.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 04:33:06 am
content: Why is the time off by 2 days? Set the clock.After that, let it run a few days to a week and see how far it's off. Most computers, if not constantly synced will gain or lose time. How much will vary, but several minutes a week is not impossible.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 04:59:53 am
content: I am trying to ascertain what is the cause.The first big gap in the clock happened when I disconnected the battery, which made me think it could be a CMOS battery problem. Now that I have corrected the table, it seems the drift, when the battery is charged, is slow but still big. I have an even older DELL laptop that has a dead battery, is frequently unpowered and does not synchonize on the net (because with my multiboot it's better to let another OS do it and then change the others manually), and it doesn't skip a beat. Only a handful of seconds in weeks.I will set the clock manually tomorrow, right now I wanna let it sleep to see if the gap, which seems constant now, will widen after several hours.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 11:08:59 pm
content: Diskmark on the 960 HP diskThe peak values are more or less in line with the disk's declared values.Not sure what to make of the third row result. Is that normal?

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 12:34:07 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 18, 2023, 12:39:34 amI use Thorium (and I guess I found my new favorite browser), and I got this for performanceP11212Whaddayathink?I then ran the stress test, it went on more than half an hour showing fps: 0.0089.. then it goes something like "producing results" but nothing happened, it just went on again saying it would go on forever until stopped. I stopped and... nothing. Went back to the home screen. I don't know what to make of it.

author: Lindley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 09:58:52 am
content: What about the replacement Battery and Power Supply the seller promised , have they arrived ?Have you gone online and tried to activate W10 ?Do you know the seller, are they local, all sounds a bit dubious to us ..

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 11:57:48 am
content: I remember having one of these. I might even have a better Quadro GPU floating around if you are interested.I used to use 1.35v RAM instead of 1.5v stuff to increase battery life and reduce heat.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 01:27:15 pm
content: Quote from: Lindley on November 21, 2023, 09:58:52 amSeller is local, a friend of mine bought a used m6700 there, but I have now found reviews online where the seller is called untrustworthy, a "liar" and even worse.One even won a civil suit against them.I am going right now to the store to discuss the keyboard issue - it's a deal breaker to me - and to see if supply and battery will be replaced.The software issue seems minor, but ... What is one expected to receive with a used laptop with win10 pro? There has to be a sticker on the machine? This is supposed to be an ex-leasing machine.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 01:30:55 pm
content: The sticker is under the battery.It has a cmos battery.Check the bios fault log.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 01:34:50 pm
content: Also, when running the performance test above, I had a USB stick in one of the ports and near the end I got a message that the the us key was not accessible. The open folder of the USB stick disappeared and when I took it off the port and reconnected did not appear again.Tried on my other laptop and it was fine. Might be an issue with the stick but... Bad vibes...How do I test USB ports when the system is under stress?(When I ran the builin diagnostics CPU max temp was 84 degrees Celsius - it's an i7 4910qm)

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 01:40:12 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on November 21, 2023, 01:30:55 pmThere are no windows or Microsoft stickers, and right now the battery is sealed with a warranty sticker. On the phone the seller told me to remove it but I did not trust him because he could claim I voided the two years warranty (which at this point makes me wonder what would that be)...Bios fail log (the one with the diagnostics) reported the underpowered supply, date and time not set in 2015 and iirc nothing else.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 10:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: Sredni on November 21, 2023, 12:34:07 amFrankly I don't know how much we can trust this benchmark as it seems to be Javascript and heavily relies on the implementation on a given browser, which is why it's horribly slow on Firefox and gets results on par with what others claim on Chrome/Chromium. While Thorium is Chromium-based, it may have a slightly different performance for this benchmark, I don't know. I gave the link as I came across it lately and it's convenient for quick benchmarking as it doesn't require any installation.Assuming that you would get the same result with Chromium - which is what I tested it on - I got about P16500 with Chromium (on Linux) on a small box with a Core i7-4790T and 16GB of RAM (which is what I have most similar to your laptop in terms of CPU.)According to this:https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4910MQ-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790T/m9700vsm13586, the 4790T should be about 5% faster than your CPU, so your P11212 result looks relatively low, but I would take this with a pinch of salt. You could check what kind of power profile is set (I think you are on Windows?) - possibly not on the highest performance profile.On my desktop computer, I get about P60000.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 01:17:15 am
content: QuoteWell, 5% difference is of little concern to me. After all this is an old computer.I am much more interested in all the difformities I have found so farThe "new" battery was new in 2015 and near the end of its useful life. The seller came up with the excuse "I call it new if it gives excellent health in the F2 menu". I am pretty sure the law (even in my country) is not that carefree with words.The 67Wh battery has been replaced with another "new" 97Wh one, that at least passes the BIOS diagnostics the other one does not.The 180W supply is still waiting to be replaced.The 'new' Hynix SSD has some 12thousand hours under the belt and it's 28% good: seehttps://youtu.be/VCrW1y_WVok(I copied this by hand, I hope it's the right link) - this is new info because before yesterday it was a hidden disk. This laptop is the gift that keeps giving...I have now noticed that when the wifi is on, the fan are continuously running, but it might be Windows - that has yet to be activated (they botched the installation, as well...) that is downloading and installing stuff. I did not disable everything yet for... reasons.I am a bit worried of the fact that when HW monitor is running, the fans on the left side keep starting up every few seconds. Seehttps://youtu.be/PPBDmGe2lQw(one needs headphones to hear it).Any idea of what could it be? HWmonitor on my other computers does not cause that.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 12:49:10 am
content: Oh, boy. This laptop is the gift that keeps on giving...The seller replaced the 67Wh battery that was reaching end of life with a 'new' 97Wh one.And in effect this battery did pass the diagnostic test, showing a manufacturing date of august 2023.But here's what I found by checking its discharge profile:Turn system on with battery at 100% at 23:15 on 23 november 2023At the end of boot into win10, battery is at 95 % at 23:17 - remaining time 5h 5mNot working at all, only writing this text file at the beginning.Sceen brightness is low, 2nd bar from the bottomù.Wifi is initially off (airplane mode)Time %batt remaining time notes==========================================================================================23:17 95% 5h 05m23:23 93% 5h 15m23:28 92% 5h 10m23:31 91% 5h 06m23:36 90% 4h 53m23:38 89% 4h 59m23:41 88% 4h 56m turn on wifi 23:4123:43 87% 4h 54m open thorium23:48 85% 2h 51m prolly extrapolation23:53 83% 4h 05m23:58 81% 3h 12m00:04 79% 4h 12m00:05 78% 3h 29m00:13 75% 2h 39m close Thorium, open Edge00:19 72% 1h 19m00:21 72% 1h 38m close Edge00:22 71% 3h 29m Edge better stay closed, it sucks battery big time00:24 wi-fi disconnection (not my choice)00:25 70% 3h 47m manually reconnecting to wi-fi00:30 69% 3h 10m00:32 68% 3h 22m open Thorium00:38 65% 2h 02m00:40 64% 1h 49m00:44 62% 1h 23m playing yt video00:45 7% 16m message "Battery is almost empty" (translated by me)So, this supposedly 'new' battery only lasts 1h30m on very light load, and drops from 62% to 7% in less than a minute. It passed the diagnostics that the previous battery did not pass (and funnily enough, even being 67Wh and end-of-life, it lasted more...) and it has a manufacturing date of August 2023.Makes me wonder I bought this laptop from a wizard.How did he manage to have a battery that behaves this way?

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 04:35:26 am
content: Why are you still dealing with such an obviously dodgy seller peddling defective crap as 'new'?

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 05:09:39 am
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on November 24, 2023, 04:35:26 amWell, I am trying to get the system I paid for. It is now clear that the... gentleman is a bit... how to say, liberal in his use of words and I am pretty sure that the law (even in my third world country, if you have a commercial license you need to abide to a certain set of laws, and this is a brick and mortar shop that supposedly sells ex-leasing laptops) does not allow all that freedom. Would you just let go of your money and do nothing?Oh, and the meaning of my previous post is to ask how a battery with that characteristics can show up as manufactured in 08/2023.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 11:34:08 am
content: I wouldn't be letting the money go, I would be taking it back for a refund..

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 09:29:53 pm
content: Quote from: Sredni on November 24, 2023, 05:09:39 amThere are many non-original replacement batteries for laptops out there, many of which are utter crap.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 10:03:17 pm
content: This is marked as Dell, and appears to be original Dell.But then... It's just ink on plastic. I was wondering if the chip can be rewritten to show a different manufacturing date. (No idea who would want to do that... )

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 11:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: Sredni on November 24, 2023, 10:03:17 pmYou think that because it's marked Dell, then it's a genuine part? I suggest just looking up replacement batteries for laptops for a few minutes, you're going to see pretty amazing stuff...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 03:08:01 am
content: Quote from: Sredni on November 23, 2023, 01:17:15 amBatteries degrade even if they aren't being used. As you rightly said, if it was made in 2015, it's towards the end of its usable life.Some machines will report battery "health" based on number of discharge cycles, others might base it on date, or a combination of both. Some will even have their own discharge test built-in to determine whether a battery is weak or not. In your case, I wouldn't really trust "excellent" to really mean "excellent"."New" is subjective. Something is new if it's still in the box and never been used, even if it was made 20 years ago.This is the risk you take buying "new old stock" items. Batteries are a bit like servicing your car; They are a consumable item that should be replaced either after a certain period has elapsed, or it's "milage" is getting high (whichever comes first).On the subject of consumer laws, obviously they vary by country but they typically only apply to "retail" type sales. For example, in Australia, individuals selling their old stuff aren't bound by these laws. Likewise if it's sold as an auction item (e.g.: eBay), consumer laws don't apply either. You'll have to do some research as to what is applicable in your country. Usually consumer laws deal with items being "reasonably durable" and that depends on the item. I'd expect a brand new model of laptop to have a battery that will last several years from the date of purchase, however if I was buying an old model that isn't made anymore, well you could argue that "durability" might only be measured in months (if at all).

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 02:03:40 am
content: Well, yes, this is a brick and mortar shop that supposedly sells end of leasing notebooks and computers.The seller stressed a lot the fact the he only sells "original" parts ("original DELL" parts, in my case) and that both the battery and the SSD were new (this is also written on the product page for basically all their offers).And yet, the first battery (which was probably an original DELL battery) was old and spent - as the bios diagnostics correctly identified, and the second battery (which appears to be manufactured in august 2023) does not behave original at all.If a seller in a shop promise me a new original DELL battery, I expect that. The problem is that I have no means to verify it before I brought the system home to check the discharge profile.I did some more testing, trying to see if the threshold was at 60% but it appears the data reported is inconsistent. The only truth is that the battery lasts between 1h15m and 1h30m.Here's today's tests: turned the notebook off with battery at 100% and then unplugged it.Turned on 15h later with battery at 95% (what was it doing when turned off???)Surfed the Internet a bit and turned it off (can't be sure, maybe 10-15minutes)Powered it back on when battery was 72%Not doing anthing but typing the folliwing in notepad, wifi on, display at low brightness (2nd from bottom)(I was attempting to catch the transition at 60%...)Time %batt remaining time notes==========================================================================================1:20 64%1:22 63%1:23 63% 2h 34m1:24 62% 2h 59m1:25 62%1:26 62%1:27 61% 3h 13m1:28 61%1:30 60% 2h 57m closing the only open folder on desktop (the one with this text file)1:32 60%1:33 59% 2h 50m1:35 58% 3h 01m1:37 58%1:39 57% 3h 00m open thorium1:41 56% 2h 16m1:42 56%1:43 55% 2h 16m1:45 54% 2h 22m1:47 54%1:48 53% 2h 08m1:49 53%1:50 52% 1h 45m end playing video1:52 51% 2h 19m (extrapolation seems to show that)1:53 50% 1h 59m1:55 50%1:57 49% 2h 27m1:59 49%2:01 48% 2h 01m2:02 47% 1h 14m2:032:04 46% 1h 55m2:06 45% 1h 59m2:08 45%2:09 44% 1h 37m2:10 7% 16m battery almost empty2:11 6% 13m2:12 --- notebook shuts downSo, it seems it does not matter the percentage of charge, battery only lasts one and a half hour in total (instead of 4 to 5 hour of an original new battery) and gives readings that reflect that.Incidentally, this is strangely similar to what is described in this youtube video.What are the odds?Anyway, plugged in at about 2:13 and turned on again. Now at 2:38 it says 1h to full charging.I am beginning to doubt there is not a single original component in this notebook.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 02:02:14 am
content: Ok, did some more testing in order to see if the discharge profile was consistent.It was.Here are two discharge curves from nearly 100% (it started from 98% as soon as I disconnected the power plug). The blue one is extremely light load with low display brightness (shown above); the red one is moderate load (youtube video playing) with display at half brightness.Now, the interesting part is that this battery is recognized as Dell battery by the Dell Power Manager itself. It says (translated by me):Battery type: EnhancedConnection: PrimaryManufacturer: SanyoDELL Battery: YesSerial number: XXXXPPID: 23 charsI wonder if this is an original Dell battery that was gutted and left with the ID chip, or if everything is chinesium. Is there no way to prove this is counterfeit without opening it?This is so depressing.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 01:27:36 am
content: I believe I will turn my channel into a guide on what test to run to check a laptop before or immediately after buying it used.I ran the following command from an elevated command window (actually Powershell)powercfg /battery monitorand got this interesting resultwhich says that no battery is installed. This despite HWmonitor, Dell's Power Management utility, and Dell's bios recognizing the battery as installed and - allegedly - original. I am not sure what to make of this message?In HWmonitor, the battery is seen as a 72.5Wh nominal capacity battery, instead of a 97Wh one.(part inside the red rectangle). Is this an indication of a fake battery?

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 07:44:16 pm
content: Quote from: Lindley on November 21, 2023, 09:58:52 amWell, a few fun updates 😁The darkened backlit keyboard is bringing a smile on the faces of hundreds of people, for the time being.I already ascertained that the replacement battery was even worse than the 2015 one (chances it is a fake with lower capacity, unbalanced cells is... Non zero).The power supply hasn't arrived yet (funny, I saw at least two other M6800 exposed...I wonder what power supply they might use... But read on...)Now he even denied the first 512GB SSD had to be new, despite it being written on the product offer pages for all his M6x00s. Then he tried to say that even if it was new but not 512, it's written 1TB + 500 GB (New - plural in my language). Mind you the other disk is 960GB 😂 so, will he give me 40 more gigabytes for that? Then I told him I would have accepted the NEW 500GB SSD. Today I texted him and he said the new SSDs are only 480GB 🤣 but unfortunately the technician has tummy ache . So next week, when the technician would probably be back he would replace the SSD, but only IF he still has one left 😂.I text him back to put the new SSD away for me, so that it would be certain to have it, but he texted back angry saying the he alone decides what to set apart and that now I should bring him the computer and he will give it back when it's done.I guess it is clear what kind of gentleman I am dealing with, here. This is what makes me ashamed of my country (and the reason I choose Antarctica as a flag).Anyway, I am determined to make sure anyone searching for his store will read about the wonderful service he provides.In the meantime, since I am now doubting even the software licence could be... alternatively genuine...Is it possible for me to activate it on my part?Feels like a violence. Sorry for the multiple posts, but it somehow feels better if I can laugh about it.