Getting Started with Equipment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: chiguy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 05:49:04 pm
content: Hi, recently discovered the blog and videos and new to the forums hereI'm looking into getting some 'real' equipment after using cheap, low quality irons for the past few years. I'm just wondering what to get. So far I've looked at the following:Hakko FX-951 (I know about the Hakko FX-888 but I like the digital display)Hakko FM-203 (or should I get 2 single iron stations?)Weller WX2002I was also thinking about hot air stations and looked at the following:Hakko FM-206 (I like the combination of things but is it better to get separate pieces of equipment?)Hakko FR-802I've also looked at the much cheaper clones and equipment from China (Aoyue being one of them). However I'm not sure if these are worth it or if I'm just tossing money away when these break down the road and I'm forced to buy replacements.Any thoughts and comments will be much appreciated. Thanks!

author: gxti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 05:54:21 pm
content: When I was looking for my first "good" iron I, too, thought that maybe I should get one with a digital display. Trust me when I say that you won't need it. I'd recommend just getting the FX-888 and maybe later get a cheap hot-air station if, and when, you need it.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 06:24:55 pm
content: The cheapos 858D/898bd/8786 and other variations are easy to repair , unless you are SO ARSED up that you don't want to repair something .

author: kodai
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 08:32:14 pm
content: Yeah, the digital display is only useful to those that work with temp sensitive components, and in that case you are still going to want a soldering iron tester to make regular checks and calibrate things accordingly. A well made station will have a printed scale that the knob/dial will not be to far out of. If you're in N. America or Japan, the FX-888 is about the best deal you can find in the name brand, bang for your buck market.The 936 (and the clones) use the 900 series tips that can be bough cheap and in bulk. For awhile the cheap tips were junk that didn't last long or heat up well. Now the cheap tips are pretty good. The clones use the same heating elements as the official Hakko's. Their biggest drawback (older models that is) is the base unit is often poorly made and kills the heating elements pretty quick. The current slew of clone 936's are much more reliable. Sparkfun offers a very decent little 936 clone for $40.00 (when they are in stock), and it seems to be very well made.On the whole, I would say either plop down the cash and get a high end setup like a Metcal, JBC, or Pace. Otherwise save the money and get a very good consumer variant such as an official Hakko. The digital display is next to useless for the average consumer/hobbiest. Keep it simple and you will have fewer problems to deal with. If you go with a clone, just make sure its a clone with a good history. If you cant find out that history, then ignore that clone. So about $40.00 for used Hakko 936 or clones, or $80.00 for a new FX-888.

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 09:01:39 pm
content: I use an Aoyue 937+. It's around $50 and it works very well.It has a segment display that shows the current temperature. It also has an up and down button to set your desired temperature.I had great results even with the supplied conical tip, although I suggest that you get a T18-D24 or T18-D16 tip as a replacement like I did. It would be beneficial to get a brass tip cleaner as well. The sponge doesn't last and the flux-infused brass is far superior. I use a Hakko 599B tip cleaner. It works very, very well.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 09:53:53 pm
content: The Aoyue 937+ is only 35W , small wonder why they are cheap .

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 02:24:58 am
content: I can solder TO-220 and D2PAK tabs to large groundplanes with the temperature only at 350.

author: ampdoctor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 05:06:18 am
content: Probably going to get staunch disagreement from any number of people here with this statement but I rather like my old weller TC202 station. I picked up mine used in about 2001 and it's yet to let me down. Haven't needed any replacement tips either! Nope they don't have a variable temperature control or anything fancy. But they're built like the proverbial brick shit house, not to mention that they're also dirt cheap on fleabay! Finding them in good shape for 20 to 30 odd dollars now isn't uncommon. Get a few extra tips in different temp ranges and with proper care and feeding should provide very reliable performance for the better part of 15-20 years.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2012, 01:19:06 am
content: another variant:http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10707Don't have it but I've heard good things. Pretty sure Sparkfun wouldn't sell you complete crap.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2012, 12:49:06 pm
content: I've had a few soldering irons. About a year ago I got a BK-3000LF from Circuit Specialists. Not bad for the price at the time, but they're more expensive now. Even though the BK3000LF is a 70 watt iron, it has trouble maintaining temperatures above 360 C, and doesn't handle heavy desoldering braid well.So, I recently switched to the Hakko FX-951, which is very nice, no complaints. And, I don't think you'll see much but praise for the FX-888 around here. The LED display on the 951 is nice, but not necessary for most purposes; it's mostly needed to set the programmable timeout, etc.The 951 is quite a bit more expensive than the FX-888. If I was going to limit my budget to the price of a FX-951, instead I'd buy pair of FX-888's and a selection of tips.Maybe I can post a teardown of the BK-3000LF and the FX-951 soon.Pics and a few more details here.http://corgitronics.com/2012/04/05/soldering-irons/

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 02:07:50 am
content: It seems you are willing to spend big bucks on your equipment. Good on you, buy a good one you might be able to pass down to the next generation.Look for JBC, Metcal or Weller. If it's over your budget then Hakko. Buy the genuine Hakko, you get the nice foam grip. I am not a big fan of the Hakko thick & heavy cable which I use daily until I modded mine.As of 2012 March, NONE of the Hakko clones has foam grip. Most of them are rubberish type.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 02:41:30 am
content: Quote from: nukie on April 07, 2012, 02:07:50 amYes ! I can attest to that statement . It's all made of rubber .

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 01:04:46 pm
content: When it comes to soldering I'd recommend Ersa. The tips last forever and are easy to change. When working on a project I use at least 3 different tips. It is important to use the right tip for optimum results (especially when soldering lead free) so make sure the iron allows for changing the tips quickly. I also have Aoyue SMD tweezers but the tips are complete rubbish compared to Ersa's tips.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 01:49:58 pm
content: These are great equipment, but overkill even for a professional doing design work. See Dave's video on starter equipment in the archives and consider his suggestions.Hakko FX-951 (I know about the Hakko FX-888 but I like the digital display)Hakko FM-203 (or should I get 2 single iron stations?)Weller WX2002I was also thinking about hot air stations and looked at the following:Hakko FM-206 (I like the combination of things but is it better to get separate pieces of equipment?)Hakko FR-802

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 02:21:42 pm
content: Pace , ersa , weller , metcal all far too overkill . If not , why is dave still using hakko's ? Obviously it's pointless spending many extra bucks on equipment that won't guarantee you much difference .Weller , except the low end ones are all overkill , the low end ones are still expensive and being inadjustable is useless .Just ask Dave Jones .

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 05:33:53 pm
content: I wouldn't call a good soldering iron overkill. If you are soldering electronics regulary a good iron and tips are worth their weight in gold. Like a carpenter needs a good hammer and a lumberjack a good axe. Good tools are half the job and save a lot of grief. Ofcourse you don't have to spend hundreds of euros or dollars on a super deluxe soldering station. IIRC Ersa soldering stations (didn't look at other brands) start at around 100 euro if you look around a bit. I don't know what Dave Jones has to do with making a good choice. Maybe he is well adjusted to mediocre equipmentBetter look for opinions from people who have experience with more than one brand. Personally I'll never buy Weller or Aoyue (again). JBC is OK but their tips are not as good as Ersa's.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 05:47:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 07, 2012, 05:33:53 pmHakko is a mediocre brand ?Certainly , i don't live in the US . So things from the US will naturally be a hell lot more expensive here .I am shocked Hakko is far more expensive here then in the US ,http://sg.element14.com/ersa/i-con-pico/soldering-station-80w-eu-plug/dp/2057377

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 06:43:08 pm
content: I've found this interesting page:http://soldering-stations.blogspot.com/2010/12/hakko-metcal-pace-ersa-jbc-edsyn.html

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2012, 11:13:04 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 07, 2012, 06:43:08 pmHakko being cheap ? Obviously he raised his standards far too high .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2012, 12:17:30 am
content: find yourself a used WD80 or WD81 on ebay. Great iron and Weller built quality and service.I've got 30 year old wellers that still work as new. ANd you can still get parts for them if needed.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2012, 01:13:41 pm
content: Sorry, was referring to the OP original set. Unless you are in production and thus need a lot of features found in costly irons, a good basic regulated iron is good for prototypes and custom, low volume work. As a baseline, it should meet professional standards for regulation: the IPC standards. The standards give you thebaseparameters to give the best results when one solders. Anything above it, is 'overkill' unless you are factory.The basic iron are easily met by the capabilities of a Hakko FX888 or the discontinued 936. This is easily met by a lot of other brands, another one famous in the USA is the Weller WES51, a good workalike the Hakko but with a nichrome heater instead of the Hakko ceramic. They have good long term reputations, no 'bells and whistles' that can go wrong. Its not sold in the EU.A problem with Chinese versions is the the quality control, design and capacity to meet those standards. If you pay $50 for one that barely meets the requirements or malfunctions a few months later, or made well one day, and bad the next, for $80 with a Hakko or equivalent, you get an iron that will perform as they spec it out. There are reviews on eevblog of such clones.Now, Hakko is not sold at reasonable prices in the EU, as many eevblog posts attest. It often goes for 1.5-3x the price sold in the USA or Asia [ including Oz & NZ]. So Hakko isn't very cost effective there are many other good brands to consider that are better priced in the EU, but the Chinese brands are iffy in the EU as well as the USA. You could get lucky though, that's what you gain for the money you save.Quote from: nctnico on April 07, 2012, 05:33:53 pm

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2012, 08:53:11 pm
content: QuoteThe price which i buy a clone that works properly all the time is at 68$ , a FX-888 costs 200$ ... Yes i'm screwedAnd you know the WES51 having a nichrome heater is not a good thing , it does not warm up as fast and the station is more expensive actually , then the FX-888 .

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2012, 06:34:08 pm
content: Yes, there are several reviews on eevblog of no-name Chinese irons, I think one good thing is the seller does some support so they can add some more quality control and easy returns.The WES51 meet IPC standards, per Weller, but I too prefer Hakko over Weller, any day. Hakko is smaller and gives better direct consumer support, and consistency for its entire lifetime as a company. Weller is just a part of a huge company, and some of their products have features than seem designed more for toy appeal than truly being improvements over soldering. Over decades, they've had periods where some of their products were very awful, like this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/weller-wx2-soldering-station-platform/msg77636/#msg77636Quote from: Dave.S on April 08, 2012, 08:53:11 pmThe price which i buy a clone that works properly all the time is at 68$ , a FX-888 costs 200$ ... Yes i'm screwedAnd you know the WES51 having a nichrome heater is not a good thing , it does not warm up as fast and the station is more expensive actually , then the FX-888 .

author: billclay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2012, 07:51:44 pm
content: I used to be a big Weller fan, and now that I've seen how quickly a Hakko FP-xxx comes up to temp and stays there, I'm a convert.Picking a soldering station is almost as hard as picking a multimeter.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 12:59:26 pm
content: my collection wellers : ( and yes, i need all of them)Top shelf left to rightSMT tweezers to remove passivesHAP1 hot air pencil to reflow smt parts locallyMT1501 handpiece. Ultralight for very precise workWSP80 with a regular tipWSP80 with a bent chisel tip for soldering tqfp using rolling blob of tin methodHakko thru hole desoldering gunNot shown , because on another workbench, another mt1501 and another WSP80 (i have two workbenches side by side. One is the real hardware bench , the other is the software development bench. In order not to have to move boards back and forth i have two soldering irons there as well.)Bottom shelf : the MT1500 controller, a WRS3000 controller , three channels , has internal air and vacuum pump. , hakko controller. And various WM80 and WM50 controllers.All this stuff comes from ebay. The mt1500 was 200-odd dollar. The WRS3000 was 250. Most handpieces about 40$. The hakko was a factory refurbished with full set of new accesories for 199.(us dollars)When i said 'i need all of them' i meant it. When assembling a board i hate it to have to change the tips on the irons . It's always the wrong tip on there , you burn your fingers, where do you leave the hot tip , where's the £%#}|~. Tip i need ... Wait for reheat...Now i can just keep going. All the controllers have power save mode. After 15 minutes they go in standby. Reheat is in the order of 3 to 5 seconds.I forgot about the weller 51 that is sold in the us. It is a perfect all round soldering station.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 04:25:44 pm
content: Hah . The FX-888 is at 200$ and the Weller 51 at 300~400$ .Perfect my ass .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 04:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: Dave.S on April 11, 2012, 04:25:44 pmyou are kidding right ? Most stores have this at around 150$, onle as low as 130$... .. that's even cheaper than your FX-888 ...http://www.frys.com/product/3598004?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PGuse google shopping and WESD51 as search term.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 04:55:33 pm
content: http://sg.element14.com/weller/wesd51duk/soldering-station-digital-50w/dp/4114863Well ?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 06:39:31 pm
content: ouch, I find the WES51 pretty much on priced par with the FX888, about $80-90 on Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XUThe WES units are made in Mexico, its fairly easy to get these from factories to US market.Quote from: free_electron on April 11, 2012, 04:37:36 pm

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 07:08:14 pm
content: Quote from: Dave.S on April 11, 2012, 04:55:33 pm.. ah wait, i see the problem.. Singapore dollars ... And element14 ( farnell/newark) is overpriced anyway.http://www.digikey.sg/product-detail/en/WES51/WES51-ND/526397.173 sing dollars !if you want the WESD51 ( with fancypants digital display) it becomes 249 sing dollars !The WES51 can be had for under 90 US$ in the US ...WESD51 is about 130 US$

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 07:25:36 pm
content: The biggest problem yet ? Digikey will kill me for the shipping via FeDeX here .That's why E14 threw in their shipping anything big from their Newark warehouse to here via UPS .And yes they do use UPS for everything , i had won the microchip PIC24E USB Dev Kit from them and a Ben Heck shirt that is many sizes too huge for me .Ah yes , look at the springs weller use ? that only exists on those 3$ soldering iron "stands" .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 07:39:52 pm
content: Since you are in singapore : get over to sim lim tower ( NOT SQUARE where they haggle prices on camera's and are STILL 50% more expensive than in the US )Plenty of places to buy one there.I can't help it that shipping costs an arm and a leg.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 07:49:30 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 11, 2012, 07:39:52 pmI know , i used to shop there a shit load and then stopped when i started to realize it IS cheaper to buy from E14 since the parts stores are all selling crappy parts .Nice place to look for 2nd hand scopes (if possible ) and pcb houses but parts , just far too expensive .Every shop charges me 10cents per resistor ...But the problem is if the FX-888 is made in malaysia then why isn't it cheaper for us (!)I totally forgot the price of the FX-888 sold by the authorized dealer down in the basement ( i bought me tips from them ! )

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 08:09:52 pm
content: Yes, certainly puzzling. Also, there is a Hakko branch office in Singapore too.http://www.hakko.com.sg/new/www/index.htmlQuote from: Dave.S on April 11, 2012, 07:49:30 pm

author: Spawn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2012, 10:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: Dave.S on April 11, 2012, 07:25:36 pmAre you for real? That spring looks like 3$ stand because it is proven to work good and the 3$ ones just copy that. If you deny over +30 year concept on that spring you need to learn a lot Dave.SI have no idea how long a Hakko lasts, but I can tell you I have used different Wellers over the years at my work and private some of those where pretty old and still going strong. Weller is good piece of equipment and you pay for that.I also have cheap China made ones like Atten and Aoyue and these work good to but the build quality is nothing near a Weller. We got one Weller in our service car that thing is thrown and beaten all over the place and it is still working perfectly, I can’t even imagine what would happen with an Atten if it was beaten that much.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 02:49:27 am
content: whining about a 3$ spring holder but something nice, solid and proven industrial-proof is 'too expensive'... ah well. can't please them all

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 09:26:48 am
content: ... Yes i know they are EXTREMELY solid ... but springs ... heh .It's a matter of preferring Hakko's stands looks over weller .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 12:04:22 pm
content: Ah, a case of looks over robustness....

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 12:37:05 pm
content: I think historically, in 30 years of doing electronics in US and territories, I've never seen a dud Hakko. There have been bad Weller products though in the same timespan, but there are Weller products in that time and today that are superb. Its a reason there are many Chinese counterfeit or copies of Hakko designs [ I guess you can say imitation is a form of flattery here], but don't do the same for Weller.So who is a better bet?Now, OTAH, Weller's are more available in EU, many of the stations and gear are made in Germany, and as we've seen Hakko is priced 2-4x higher in the EU or elsewhere, for unclear reasons. That said, there is good incentive in different countries to buy Weller instead. Likewise the price differences can help you decide between JBC or Oki-Metcal or the newer clone, thermaltronics, if they are fairly close technically and quality wise, the only difference becomes price and maintenance.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 01:40:09 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 12, 2012, 12:04:22 pmWell , how does a hakko stand break ? I don't know .But certainly a WESD51 ( the digital one ) costs so much i rather go for a OKI PS-900But certainly ERSA is a better bet then OKI ( OKI is having a buy 3 free 1 promotion only at Element14 ( Not newark not farnell just E14 ! ) ! )I don't have much money so i have to go with buying Clones .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 02:09:02 pm
content: living in singapore <> not having much money.. I thought they were all bajillioaires there driving mcLarens and Murcielago's, living in massive high rise casino's with swimming pools on top. At least that's what i remember from the times i've been there..Then again, if you go to science park... and you go eat with the locals , you may as well be in a bombay backroad ..

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 03:53:57 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on April 12, 2012, 12:37:05 pmWell, if you want so see some Weller clones, look for Zhongdi ZD-919 and ZD-99.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 04:35:20 pm
content: You're right, B@W, they certainly look the same, I stand corrected. The ZD-99 could even be the real version that Weller sells.Quote from: BoredAtWork on April 12, 2012, 03:53:57 pm

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2012, 05:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 12, 2012, 02:09:02 pmThen again , not . Only a few drive Ferrari's , Lambo's , Porsche's and even only a few drive WRX's ...The reason ?Far too expensive to maintain and in 10 years we have to scrap or pay a massive COE again ... Car prices here are 200% more then anywhere .And most importantly , yes we do have some money but housing prices and living costs take the money away from us .Buying quality products hurt . In fact , most of us live in high rise flats and even buying a brand new 5 room flat can get me a uber nice and big house somewhere in UK .Quote from: saturation on April 12, 2012, 04:35:20 pmIf you look carefully , the soldering iron on the ZD-919 looks cheap ( it is indeed one of those cheap ones )The connector like the 936 clones ( But with different brand names )The spring looks like shit .And apparently on their site , the ZD-99 and ZD-919 are no morecheck out their :Mouses anybody !Looks like they are OEM of some very unaccurate soldering station (Forgot the brand but farnell sells them as Duratool)

author: gjh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2012, 02:55:08 am
content: Geez looks like they used a computer mouse enclosure.. Scary stuff!

author: boostedsupra
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 19, 2012, 01:04:15 pm
content: to the OP, i like was looking into what soldering station would best work for me, after doing lots of research, both on the interweb and talking with seasoned pro's, mainly Avionics and Aeronautical engineers, the Hakko seems to be the preffered and most reputible for price and quality.and i chose the FX-888. sure one can go get an Ersa, or Metcal, but if u want to drop lots of money just to dick measure and say u have one go for it. either way both the FX-888 and FX-951 are damn good units that are far from junk and will stand right along side of the upper echelon of soldering units. Another great thing i have noticed about Hakko is the great customer service. Some of the older Wellers are great units, but is seems the newer ones are not up to par as compaired to the older moldels, and their customer service is shotty at best. not saying not to get a Weller but for the money and quality Hakko seems to be the best choice