Russia makes billions without doing any work (but is this fair globally?) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 03:22:28 pm
content: FWIW, I found this 10-minute video interesting.. but I doubt any average Russian citizen benefits from the proceeds.Closely related: Perhaps Russiais justifiedcharging high tariff's - they have another serious problem:

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:17:12 pm
content: Perhaps it is because I am trying to convince my own kid of this that made me so "preachie".These two videos are very educational. While most here are making their living with technology, none the less, a good understanding of the world would still benefit us feeding from selling technology. Geopolitics matter even for Engineers.There were plenty of discussions here about technology and development of BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China) some time ago. At the time, I stated that there really would be no competition. Between the four, China had the infrastructure, political stability, and investment power that none of the other three could even come close. They will catch up, but one has an advantage if one started the race with a head start.In the end, we, even the "behind close door locked-in-lab" technicians exists only to serve a market. A better understanding of the market and the market's landscape, culture, and language will help us develop into a better technician.Now if I can convince even one of you (you as in non-believers. I am sure plenty of you already believe) to believe in my argument here that knowledge of the world and geopolitics has value in technology and engineering, I may have a shot in convincing my own kid...

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 10:25:35 pm
content: How old is your kid? This is a lot to take in. IMO since globalization, and each nation's obsession with their trade balances, it seems N2N affairs are so dynamic as to render 5-year old textbooks obsolete. Wendover and their sub-channel "Half as Interesting" are first class tip-of-the-iceberg channels but there must be a raft of other sources.If you have the time and you're in for gleanings, Jordan Peterson's chats with Harvard-types (both sides of the house) are always packed with interesting geo-statistical views. He doesn't appeal to everyone, but he makes it look easy putting the bigger puzzle together.- cheers!

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 01:42:55 am
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on May 29, 2018, 10:25:35 pm*** EDIT ***I removed my reply to the question above. I decided it would not be right to intrude into my kid's privacy.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 02:02:43 am
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on May 29, 2018, 03:22:28 pmNaive question, how do you know "exactly" that ? Reading western news only ?

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 03:41:30 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 30, 2018, 02:02:43 amPossibly a jump, but airlines are committed to silence on the extortion amounts.. Using back-channels to pay demands seems the most likely way to obfuscate who is paying what to whom (IE Russian oligarch's ensure the public purse is not affected). Who knows, maybe the $100 per traveler exchanges massive quantities of airplane parts? but that's a stretch.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 04:17:28 am
content: I mean, from what little I know of Russian government, that would be logical. The gov't is very top-heavy, i.e. the few in power wield significantly more power than the people do, and by power I mean combined political, economic and military power (there is no distinction between the three -- they are all components one must use in order to remain in power, for better or for worse).It's not obvious to me if it's still on the side of democracy, or dictatorship, but it seems to be relatively stable regardless, suggesting one or the other and not somewhere inbetween. A political scientist or economist could quantify that better (well, assuming open information to base such judgement on).Even in a western democracy, selling airspace rights would logically go to the state, at least as the primary recipient. There's no reason to believe that it should trickle down to the people, whether by offsetting overall taxes, or budgeting to some public service, or by a direct rebate. It might be logical to disburse it to land owners who are overflown by the routes (given a suitable distribution among owners, as routes are inexact, and many owners would be affected to varying degrees), but I don't think there's any basis for that in the US for example, though there may be better reasoning in others (namely, those where property rights extend up and down infinitely far).Which is to say, I have no idea, but have no doubt that it's more or less going straight into the oligarchy's pockets (and, by extension, a majority to Putin's).Tim

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 08:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 30, 2018, 04:17:28 amI am sure some benefit will trickle down. The establishment of safe air-lanes and supporting infrastructure will benefit day-to-day travelers, industries, and overall national economic development. So average Russians will benefit from that.I am also sure that someones' pocket(s) got thicker and fuller as well.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:20:59 pm
content: i wonder if NATO/etc can some how jam or interfere with that airspace to further anti Russia sanctionsi.e. warn commercial traffic not to go there and then discourage flight there with jamming.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:32:17 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 30, 2018, 04:17:28 amYou're right that is very true in the USA .. Er, oh, wait you're talking about Russia...

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:42:55 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on May 30, 2018, 11:20:59 pmNot a good idea to poke a bear. This landmass is so huge that VHF jamming ATC would be near impossible and flying around it involves more fuel and costly waypoints and tariff's over poorly governed hostiles to the south. (Syria, Iran, the "stans" etc..).

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:44:03 pm
content: can't they chase stuff around in electronic warfare planes?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:45:50 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on May 30, 2018, 11:20:59 pmDoes the word "sovereignty" mean anything to you ?

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:46:49 pm
content: part of it goes over the ocean you can claim exercises

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on May 30, 2018, 11:46:49 pmWatch the video.The topic is extortionist overflight permissions and what appears to be untraceable money trails.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:56:41 pm
content: I just don't like Russia very much. They ruined my idea of doing things in Europe.And you can't shake down whats not there can you??

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 11:59:08 pm
content: IMO putin is like a combination of J Edgar Hoover and Roy Demeo being president

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 12:17:23 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 31, 2018, 12:04:28 amFew fellas here I suspect can not understand what are you saying here, they just don't see that western world is no different, money & wealth is being concentrated for almost few decades only at few handful of powerful elite groups. For US few words pop out such as Wall street, military contractors, bankers, Jews rich & elite group and so on.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 12:37:14 am
content: All that stuff you listed is still way more spread out then russia

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 12:45:38 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on May 31, 2018, 12:37:14 amNow its game of words, in Russia you guys called it oligarchy, while it US you called "spread & diversed" elite groups, still ... not for the "people" maybe like you.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 12:50:14 am
content: @BravoV - I lived under communism for 5 years, working directly with poor peon technician's in state-run technical shops. I've seen what I need to see. I'm now back in "the west" 22-years married to a gal from that country, and now lending $upport to some 12 souls from that same hell-hole. The west still holds many "checks and balances", not found in totalitarian states.@BlueSkull - Knowing an oligarch's income is not so important.. what fascinates me, is the hidden accounting done by western airlines, in order to keep the world from knowing all the facts (this used to be a fairly transparent pillar of western civ..)

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 12:51:31 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on May 30, 2018, 11:20:59 pmWho would that really hurt more? 4x longer and more expensive flights?Their territory there rules. If we thought we could make good money doing the same, sure we would do the same.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 12:56:05 am
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on May 31, 2018, 12:50:14 amPrivate companies likely under contract to not disclose terms, not too interesting imo.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 01:12:36 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on May 31, 2018, 12:56:05 amTerms don't interest.. Some airlines may be public, and the wide variety of back-channel payments (not necessarily $) makes good fodder for a curious press I'd think.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 01:48:53 am
content: Even public companies have plenty of ways to bury costs in their financial disclosures. They can easily lump it in a broad bucket of fees making it very difficult if not impossible to track down.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 03:32:13 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 31, 2018, 12:45:38 amAs has been shown by a recent Princeton study,the US is an olgarchy, not a democracy. The oligarchs here just have more practice, and a longer history at work to keep the masses under the illusion that they dwell in a democracy.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 11:25:08 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on May 31, 2018, 03:32:13 am2014's not so recent. Libtards at Vox had doubts:https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-study