So I finally got round to molesting some pine trees... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Evil Lurker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 08:41:45 pm
content: A while back I posted about how it might be possible to obtain flux from pine trees. Well after chopping down a few saplings, collecting a little bit of sap, dissolving in alcohol, filtering it off and then heating said sap in an oven to 250F to drive off the alcohol I was left with about ~5ml of some water clear slightly yellow very sticky rosin. And, after a few quick test runs I'm happy to say the rosin, while not exactly "no clean" works just as good or better than the stuff Rat Shack used to sell in the tubs and the residue is a whole lot easier to clean up. Needless to say I have yet to get the entire process refined, but basically what I have learned is that if you wanna milk a pine tree, you gotta cover the wound (or in my case, the stumps) as the sap will quickly dry and turn into some hard white chunky crap that is impossible to scrap off and collect. Also when heating it up to drive off the alcohol, enough sap to fill up about two soda bottle caps is capable of making your house smell like a pine tree exploded in it when driving off the alcohol. Oh and don't use anything that you are not prepared to throw away for an evaporation dish. Me, I used an aluminum foil lined tunafish can.I think later on this afternoon I'm gonna chop down 10-15 more saplings and try and get some pictures of the process... all goes well I should have enough rosin to last me quite some time.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 08:45:33 pm
content: Looking forward to your step by step guide.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 08:57:28 pm
content: AnotherWrite more on the process details and how much rosin you can get. Post some pictures as well - topic is very interesting."Flux is gone", - says Evil Lurker before taking an axe...

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 09:03:46 pm
content: I'm also curious about how much residue is actually filtered off.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 09:11:37 pm
content: BTWI could lend you my 3120 if you need it.Na, not me , just some image from the net.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 09:35:45 pm
content: Where do you get pine trees? I just checked Digikey and Mouser and they don't have any.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 10:23:11 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on May 10, 2015, 09:35:45 pm

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 10:36:12 pm
content: I'm sure you can order some from china.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 10:56:12 pm
content: I'll joinpost up some pics.

author: Evil Lurker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 12:41:04 am
content: Ok so I went out and lopped down another tree.. this is what I am cutting, the common loblolly pine (I think), unscientific namePinus fluxus.The idea was to cut the top off leaving a portion of trunk, so that in theory more sap will rise from the roots. Immediately after cutting you can start to see little beads of sap rising (although I don't know if they can be seen in the picture, only looked at the thumbnail on my PC).Since the sap likes to dry out, the next step is to bag them up. I went with some ziplocs because they were handy and rigid enough to stand up off the cuts, plus they are clear so you can see what is going on inside them.Now time to hurry up and wait till in the morning when I can go out and see how much sap has flown over the night.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 12:59:40 am
content: For the "head" of the pine, while the branches are still connected, they'll continue "sucking" sap upwards.Suggest you limb, and invert sections of the log, bagging the smaller(head) end.Displacement of the sap was once considered crucial to "seasoning" timber, logs were even tethered "butts' upstream in a river to assist sap displacement.One might even consider some homebuilt connection of water pressure to the butt to speed the process.Water comtamination of the resin shouldn't be a problem as it will boil off in the refining process.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 01:11:07 am
content: TREESLAYER ! Rosin is murder !

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 01:30:10 am
content: Quote from: Thor-Arne on May 10, 2015, 10:36:12 pmYeah, but it will either be mulch, dried out w/o rosin, or imitation pine(Douglas Fir, Juniper). Wait, Juniper berries flavor gin. OK, that could be a good substitute for for EE's who are moonshiners making bathtub gin on the side.

author: ozwolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 01:48:48 am
content: Really? Do you have to cut the tree(s) down?Why not tap the tree like Canadians do for Maple Syrup! Tree gets to live on and provide more sap for next year.Three seconds on Google found thishttp://www.wikihow.com/Tap-a-Pine-Tree.Geez

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 01:58:18 am
content: Heheh yeah, the turpentine is still in there so you ideally should distill it to separate the liquid fractions. Should be no problem for a back-woods 'shiner like yourself? Oh wait...The moderately volatile acids are probably the most valuable part of the rosin, as flux goes. With use, that part evaporates, leaving you with crusty deposits.Want to say there's also something about, say, clarifying it with who knows what additives, "activating" it with the help of other acids (or hydrolysis, if esters are present), or etc. But if it works fine as-is, who cares.Tim

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 02:43:47 am
content: Quote from: ozwolf on May 11, 2015, 01:48:48 amHopefully he will not try next to make carbon resistors from his puppies.

author: ozwolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 02:52:49 am
content: Quote from: zapta on May 11, 2015, 02:43:47 amI'll give him credit for naming the thread subject correctly...

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 06:48:48 am
content: Quote from: ozwolf on May 11, 2015, 02:52:49 amActually to be fair about that, no......He didn't drill a hole into the trunk, so...Tim

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 09:28:57 am
content: Quote from: ozwolf on May 11, 2015, 01:48:48 amEverybody has a differing view on this.....Here in NZ some of our pristine remote areas are being invaded by pines, gangs of guys with chainsaws are dropped in with choppers to do battle with the wilding pines.But other varieties like Radiata are the backbone of our lumber industry, most of which is exported.

author: Evil Lurker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 10:50:41 am
content: For what it is worth the trees that I am cutting are basically scrub overgrowth in a neglected corner of a pasture that used to be a cattle corral. The trees are stunted, some are showing signs of a pine beetle infestation, and they will never be useful for lumber (or for that matter pulpwood) and simply need to be cleared out anyway so I can use the space for something more productive, like a corral. I'm also not that interested in investing much effort into sap collection either as there are probably 50+ similar sized trees that need to be taken down nor am I gung ho about wading through briars and ticks to get to them. I do like the idea bout turning the tops upside down, but since I don't have a front end loader on my tractor it ain't gonna happen. Might take a ladder out there though and simply chop off all the limbs and see how much I can get out the stubs though.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 12:01:28 pm
content: Quote from: Evil Lurker on May 11, 2015, 10:50:41 amPerhaps cutting them down and burning them might be a more appropriate (keep them from spreading to healthy trees you want to keep)?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 12:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: ozwolf on May 11, 2015, 01:48:48 amOh, no! He cut down atree! Whatever will we do? It's not like trees grow and reproduce, or anythingsillylike that...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:23:08 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 11, 2015, 12:08:08 pmPeople also grow and reproduce. Rethink your argument.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:29:17 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on May 11, 2015, 03:23:08 pmAre you bloody kidding me? We special-case people because they're, well, people. Hence why it's not considered murder to kill an animal.Trees aren't intelligent and don't contribute to society, they're a resource. One tree is equivalent to another, there's nothing special about an individual tree.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:41:41 pm
content: It´s a sapling, and pine trees are really aggressive trees and deplete ground nutrients faster than say oak.So actually cutting it down might be beneficial to other plants that couldn´t grow because of the pine tree.

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 05:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 11, 2015, 03:29:17 pmYou must have missed this. Apes are people now.http://primatology.net/2015/04/21/n-y-judge-grants-legal-rights-to-2-research-chimps/

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 06:25:55 pm
content: Next they will have to pay tax.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 06:26:24 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 11, 2015, 12:08:08 pmGodo argument. I'll use that as argument against those opposing the eating of cows.Cows breed too , and since they are the largest producer of methane ( a greenhouse effect gas ) we should eat more of them.I think i'll fire up the barbie tonite.