Inside an Australia National Broadband Network (NBN) Node - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 08:24:51 am
content: Someone found an unlocked cabinet. Not quite sure I believe him as he describes the cost of some of that gear, I know enterprise networking gear can be expensive, but $15,000 worth of batteries? I find that doubtful - A quick Google puts them at under $500 each retail.This guy is by no means an expert in this field, but it's still an interesting look inside.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 08:34:46 am
content: If you look at the YT comments he writes that he got the decimal point wrong in the heat of the moment and meant 1500 not 15k.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:18:13 am
content: Nice setup. Battery bank is most likely 48vdc so those are probably 12v each. Think I found em:https://www.power-solutions.com/batteries/enersys/powersafe-sbs/sbs-100f.I'm surprised these are only 100ah though... but they are probably also built to higher standards than your typical Canadian Tire/equivalent RV battery which would also be 100ah.My guess is about $600/battery but probably not more than $1,000. This is a 200AH battery for about that price:https://www.solarwholesaler.ca/product/surrette-t12-12v-200-ah-flooded-battery/The black things with the fans off to the left are most likely the rectifiers. AC comes in, converts to 54vdc and powers everything, batteries are in-line. If power goes out they continue to power the load. That Alcatel-Lucent gear is most likely mux equipment and is a fairly well known brand for this kind of stuff. Though I'm not sure how it works for FTTN, I presume the thick cables are copper going to the houses, maybe this acts sorta like a DSLAM and it's basically DSL going to the house. Or maybe Coax?What I don't get is why ISPs even bother with FTTN, for a tad more up front cost you can do FTTH and there is way less equipment involved which means less equipment to maintain and less operational costs.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:26:24 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on September 01, 2017, 03:18:13 amThe physical rollout is being done by NBN Co - a separate, government owned company formed for doing this job. As I understand it, the ISPs are just customers, like the public - just at the other end of the delivery chain.I believe the killer as to why they didn't do FTTH is (1) "a tad more up front cost" as you said ... and (2) the extra time it would take to do that. (Not to mention having to deal with customers). It's a political hot potato as well - and the majority of the voting public would not have sufficient awareness of the technical superiority of FTTH. They just suck up the marketing spiel which shows the typical "good stuff". It's only afterwards that reality hits home when the service doesn't live up to the hype ... and when the phrase "Up to..." gets pointed out.I would love FTTH - as long as there was sufficientbandwidthcapacity to provide consistent, high speed service.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 04:47:00 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on September 01, 2017, 03:18:13 amIt's not the ISP, it's NBNco, a government clusterf@#k corporation who followed the mandate of the Abbot government that the idiot voters voted into power.The current government proposed a FTTN system and got voted in against the opposition who proposed FTTP/FTTH. So we got FTTN as people effectively voted for.It was the biggest election issue at the Federal election a couple of years back.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 04:57:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 01, 2017, 04:47:00 amYet now, the NBN Co. (and the government) have backpedaled on the issue and a lot of those areas which were due to get Fibre to the Node are now getting Fibre to the Curb. FTTC should have been the BARE MINIMUM that they rolled out from the very beginning. It's slightly more expensive and takes slightly longer to roll out, but it's far superior in terms of speed, reliability and future-proofing, and doesn't require on-going maintenance and band aid fixed like the current copper network. Any half-wit could see that.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 08:52:11 am
content: Power & Alarm Distribution Panel, Rectifier controller & 2 x rectifiers, ISAM controller, OLTE (optic line terminal), MUX (I think) feeding line cards, & line cards. Power in, gen socket, changeover switch, etc. behind the door on the left end of the cabinet; customer line terminations behind the door on the right.Batteries inside cabinet = dumb idea, even if they're in a (supposedly) sealed section. The old RCMs & RIMs had batteries either inside or in a sealed side cabinet, & in hot places they'd last about 5 years before going from testing fine to leaking overnight. And when they leak, the vapour eats everything...(Later RIM models had the batteries in a pit beside the main cabinet, with a plastic bell over the top to keep them mostly dry in rain/floods. A much better idea - except for the ants & spiders which attracted lizards which attracted snakes...)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:22:24 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on September 01, 2017, 04:57:04 amOf course, but that's what the Labour opposition proposed, so they had to be complete idiots and propose something the complete opposite regardless of how retarded an idea it was. Politics at it's most ridiculous.

author: Moshly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 12:11:59 pm
content: My friends elderly mum has had 9 visits over a 3 month period just to get the phone onNow she has 2 stinking hot boxes and a mess of wiring she has no clue about sitting on her tableThat has NO BATTERY BACKUP !If you are old and too set in your ways to get a mobile, then you are screwed in a power outage / emergency situation.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 01:10:25 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on September 01, 2017, 03:18:13 amThat ISAM has got VDSL vectoring line cards. And yes, the thick cables are the telephone lines, 24 pairs into a high density connector.

author: Russ57
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 01:28:56 am
content: "That has NO BATTERY BACKUP !"Last week, we had no (cable) internet, due to power line work a few blocks away.This caused me to wonder, when I transition to nbn which will be delivered via hfc, will that circumstance result in loss of phone? I can (and do) protect my own equipment via ups, but if the problem is upstream, not much I could do.Just wait till a few die because they can't call for help...-russ

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 02:25:37 am
content: I, too, have an issue about power failure scenarios.Back in the days of exchanges and copper wire, we were entertained - and reassured - by images of huge battery banks that could support the telephone system while mains power was interrupted. The handset in the home was powered down the copper, we didn't have to worry about charging anything and (subject to mechanical issues) weknewit would work if the power went out.Such a level of independence was the sign of well designed and implemented system - and having a phone line into a property was all it took.Without such a service, we have been thrown into the situation thatassumesthat there is an alternate means of communicationavailable, that it isaccessible, that it isoperationaland that the person who needs to use it has theknowledgeto do so.While this may be a statistically high probability, there ARE going to be situations where this will not be the case .... and I find that troubling.To roll out a "communications solution" that relies - or even allows - this to happen is simply reprehensible.I am aware of some equipment that provides for domestic battery backup - but acquisition, installation and maintenance of such a system is at the cost of the householder. Hardly ideal.I would like to be proven wrong here - so if anyone has information that may allay my concerns, I would be more than happy to hear it.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 11:22:10 am
content: You're right to worry about the reliability of the modern landline telephone service. Nearly all POTS networks will be migrated to VoIP to reduce operation costs. There are two basic VoIP solutions. The first is a VoIP CPE located in the customer's home. No power means no internet and no telephone. The other solution is a FXO card in the MSAN/ISAM. If the telco has installed a power backup you're lucky. If not, no telephone during an power outage. And the telco's excuse is that everyone has got a mobile phone which could be used in case of an emergency. The next question would be how long the mobile's base station runs on backup power. The golden rule is 4h at minimum, but it could be anything.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 11:36:44 am
content: I don't think it's as big of a problem as people are making it out to be and I'm talking from experience in Australia.The mobile networks here are highly reliable, especially in an emergency. Congestion isn't a problem as a call to 112 or 000 (our emergency number for Police, Fire and Ambulance) will bump a call with less priority off the network if capacity is an issue and will use any available cell tower, even if it's not part of your subscriber's network.Even during some of the largest bush fires in history, mobile phone services remained operational even though cell towers were lost.I personally worked as part of the Comms crew during the2003 bushfire in Canberra. Radio comms were knocked out so we relied on the mobile network and humans acting as repeater stations from a plane flying around in circles overhead to coordinate emergency services.If you've identified that you're one of the minority who doesn't have a mobile phone, it's probably time to get one, even if it doesn't have a SIM card (as you'll still be able to call 000) and/or put other mitigation strategies in-place.I'm sure there are some very unlikely scenarios where all the stars align and there is just no other option, but I can't think of one.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 12:58:30 pm
content: The elderly.Those who knowofthe mobile phone option and haven't taken it up, those who would be challenged in using one (and, yes, I know of one or two) - and those who have no interest in it.Certainly this is a diminishing sector of the population, but that's not an excuse to force them into such a situation.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 01:17:01 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 02, 2017, 12:58:30 pmI've had a bugger of a time teaching my 95 year old Grandfather how to use his mobile phone as the "progress" of the NBN means he no longer has a reliable landline service to rely on. The worst part is he now has to pay 2 bills, and unlike the land-line which is tethered to the spot, he routinely loses his mobile phone.Yay :https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/family-frustrated-by-no-phone-signal-for-great-grandmother-before-her-death-ng-b88561054z

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 01:48:59 pm
content: Its my understanding that the virtually unknown but important international legal interactions between the Australian government and trade organizations and trade treaties - especially the WTO General Agreement on Trade in Services (or "GATS") and the WTO agreement on telecommunications, and perhaps also soon the pending Trade in Services Agreement, or "TISA" is a big part of what has made the NBN situation so convoluted. Also, he fact that Australia is a huge country with most of its area so far apart it will never be profitable. Corporations will always not want to supply service to those area. Its like the problem with health insurance where sick people are never going to be profitable and insuring more sick people is going to be even less profitale than trying to insure as few as possible.The combination of consumer math ignorance and a general tendency on the part of legislators and industry people to hide the truth about trade agreements conflicts with common sense and what kinds of activity they try to prohibit, (anything where governments "unfairly compete" with business) guarantees major confusion.This state of ignorance is worsened by what seems to be a global media blockade on the trade agreements. (because they are a de-facto semi-coercive takeover of the world's future by corporations, with governmental collusion. Eliminating democracy's ability to change virtually everything of economic importance in policy.)Two Australian legal scholars who have written about this clash are Tania Voon and Matthew Rimmer.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 02:33:04 pm
content: If I was that guy, the urge to just swipe the batteries and book it would be immense. I don't think I would do it (probably because I wouldn't like to get caught) but damn. That's still over a grand of decent quality batteries.The difference between fiber communications in Australia, and those in the US, is that the ones in the US do not tend to suck. Fiber is a rare treat for most places, as most people are stuck with Comcast's abhorrent direct attach copper, and more importantly, direct attach foot up your ass. I have Verizon FiOS, and the customer support isn't THAT bad. It's certainly a better service than Comcast. We even get 90/90 speeds for a decent price. The system is stable (mostly) and they include a UPS with the fiber modem in the basement that's good for I think several days on standby, and a few hours of talk time (better than nothing for certain)

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 03:04:43 pm
content: Many cell phones have an external antenna jack hidden somewhere on them. If your phone has one you can buy a gain antenna - such as a log periodic antenna that looks like a shark fin. Using an external antenna will double the range at least. So its a good thing to have in a pinch. That and a means of recharging batteries during outages. Solar cells, bicycle generator.. something.HF radio (SSB) also might be a good thing to have if you live out in the boonies. With a ham license, you can help your community in an emergency.HF is used in many countries to keep far flung areas in touch with the rest of society in a non-Internet-dependent way.You can use some frequencies for close in communications and others for far.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 04:10:44 pm
content: 2 guys one ladder and fix a phone line quad cable to a new roof tie then splice in the cables to existing works. Here one guy in a van that, until recently, was branded Telkom, then became OpenServe ( same van, same guy, different logo applied to van) would be doing this.I have a good relationship with the technicians in my area, so that I rarely have faults that I cannot diagnose and give a good fault report, and often I do know the local layout better than them, just from experience and from having helped them dig up roads to lay cables. At home I have a very nice used Demarc, and do not pay for indoor line maintenance, I figure I can at least diagnose indoor faults and repair them as I do have all the tools needed for this.

author: Doc Daneeka
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 12:09:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 01, 2017, 09:22:24 amThat's exactly the problem: the two parties are almost identical, so any policy put foward by one must beautomaticallycontradicted by the other, otherwise how could they wage their next election campaign if they couldn't just say 'vote for us, we'll do the opposite of the other guy on this important issue'. so one term of one party, a couple of the other, back to the first and no commitment to anything remotely progressive because 4 years isn't long enough to get the really important things done...

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 12:22:20 am
content: And this is why we should implement 0 party systems so you only have people campaigning for their own personal views, and not those of a party. Also remove any campaign financing and have all campaigns run on public venues. That way the only people who want and can get elected are those who appeal directly to the people.