Electron flow model - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 03:28:07 am
content: I wish I could fix the world...I'd like to relabel all the diodes, transistors, batteries and atomic structures...Then I'd make every one use the electron flow model.electrons = + (positive)protons (Holes) = - (negitive)That's all.Is that such an evil idea?if you agree to join me on my crusade!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 03:54:24 am
content: Currentflows from positive to negative.Electronsflow from negative to positive.Is that so hard? The vast majority ofelectronics can be done without knowing thatelectronseven exist! (As long as the semiconductor fairy delivers your transistors and diodes, that is...)

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 04:00:36 am
content: So, positions will be -, antiprotons will be +?what about quarks?

author: bobdagangster
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 04:03:10 am
content: The electrons are negatively charged... It only makes sense that they go from positive to negative.

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 04:13:12 am
content: Quote from: bobdagangster on October 27, 2013, 04:03:10 ampositive and negative labels were arbitrary. they could have been called excess and lacking, or blue and orange.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 04:52:37 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 27, 2013, 03:54:24 amBut then we would have to call it "Pretend positive charge carrier--ics"

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 05:42:07 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on October 27, 2013, 04:52:37 amNo we wouldn't, we're australian, we'd call it a garbled chazwazzer

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 06:38:34 am
content: I guess we will all have to live with the (like by coin flip) choosen definition: Current flows from positive to negative.But it would have been much nicer/easier with the better definition: Current flows from negative to positive.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 06:43:25 am
content: The conventional versus electron flow controversy is rather old hat now.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 04:09:19 pm
content: Since you can remember which what is where then why does it bother you?

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 09:44:28 pm
content: Take a sealed cylinder and fill it halfway with water and stand it on end. Call the bottom end of the cylinder "+" and the top "-". Or the opposite of that. Whatever floats your boat really. Then flip the cylinder upside-down.Did the water just flow from "+" to "-" (or "-" to "+")? Or was it the air that flowed in the opposite direction, and the water simply filled whatever region was left?Do you see why this is a meaningless thing to ponder?What is important is that the system seeks equilibrium. Whether that equilibrium is reached in the form of electrons moving, or the absence of electrons moving, it doesn't really matter much. Those are just two ways of describing the same behavior.

author: opablo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 10:35:11 pm
content: Quotejajajaj sorry; I'm still very busy explaining the metric system to the yankees jajaja

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 02:21:00 am
content: Quote from: opablo on October 27, 2013, 10:35:11 pmThat's ok, I just wanted to see what the response would be. I find peoples personal viewpoints on "established doctrine" very interesting.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 02:29:30 am
content: Quote from: Kryoclasm on October 28, 2013, 02:21:00 amThe trouble is that "doctrine" implies some idea of true or falsity, when in fact there is no such idea. The only viewpoint that is causing you trouble here is your own when you try to define right or wrong in an area where such attributions are entirely arbitrary.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 04:03:50 am
content: Engineers will argue till the cows come home that Conventional Current flow is correct,as that has been what they have been taught for a hundred years or so.They get their "knickers in a twist" about the notion of Electron Flow,& somehow think that it means they have to put a negative sign in there somewhere.Those of us that were brought up on thermionic emission always find it a bit silly to show a vacuum tube with current flowingintoits anode,but it really doesn't matter most of the time.The voltage drops around a circuit are the same polarity,no matter which convention we use.If we were really earnest about Electron Flow we would use "Left hand " rules etc,& some publications have done so,but most of us are quite happy to assume Conventional Current flow & use the same RH rules as the "Ginger Beers".

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 04:50:58 am
content: If you treat current flow as just a sign convention that allows us to sum them up and apply KCL, as EEs usually do, then it's arbitrary as long as your consistent, so you might as well go with the established standard. Just like we tend to use right-handed coordinate systems. The other way around would work just fine, but there's no compelling reason and it will be confusing communication with other people taught conventional flow (probably >99% of the EEs out there). If you connect current flow with the flow of charged 'particles', then you run into trouble in systems where positive ions are transporting the charge, like in some electrolytes. Do you then apply conventional current flow inside the cap but electron flow for the rest of the circuit? This will make Kirchoff very angry. What about current flow in batteries, when both positive and negative ions carry charge?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 11:39:05 am
content: Electronics generally concerns itself with charge moving, not electrons. When electrons move to the left, the negative charge moves left and positive charge moves right. There's nothing fake or phony about it. The left side is physically and measurable more negatively charged and the right side is physically and measurably more positively charged.

author: Whuffo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 10:07:01 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on October 28, 2013, 11:39:05 amBingo! It's the movement of charge that makes electricity work, not electrons. Those electrons drift along at a snails pace in a wire.