ATTEN 858D hot air station: any good? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 01:05:50 pm
content: Every now and the I need to rework small SMD components in tight places. I think I want to try a hot air station. I've found this one on Ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-ATTEN-858D-858D-SMD-Hot-Rework-Station-AT-Air-Solder-Blower-/260896532602Does anyone have experience with this one?

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 01:30:50 pm
content: I just bought one from a local seller for $63 based on Dave's indepth reviewhttp://www.eevblog.com/2011/04/25/eevblog-167-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-review/The local dude will probably get it to you quickerhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ATTEN-HOT-AIR-GUN-SOLDERING-REWORK-SMD-STATION-AT858D-3-Nozzles-1-YEAR-OZ-WRT-/270975159998?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f1760cebeAt $60 you can't go wrong. Beats forking out $1000 for a Paceregardsdavo

author: LuckyJaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 01:42:25 pm
content: Had mine for the last six months, works great, already paid for itself...

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 02:16:31 pm
content: I bought a set for about 35SGD (Looks like Yihua is WORSER then atten, avoid them guys)And so far the triac blew because of overheating and i am left with a heater but no mica paper.Atten is much better seeing you guys don't say that there are any triac blowing

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 03:52:34 pm
content: I've just ordered one so I'll see soon enough if the quality is any good. I never guessed Dave actually reviewed one

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 04:06:23 pm
content: I have one it works great. But need to check out this thread and do the repairs if necessary before you use it.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/msg46035/#msg46035Also search 858D WHEN AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM to see many other informative threads on this item.

author: Dawn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 08:06:07 pm
content: Would someone mind explaining the reason why these type of hot air stations are desired by a subsegment of users for rework? I've read that they're very popular in China with the cell phone refurb and repair kiosks and consumer electronics street repair. I've seen the same sentiment echoed by some of the game board crowd that have graduated from hardware store heat gun sledgehammer work. I would surmise from experience that a handle with a built-in blower would be less desirable then a lighter handle on the end of a hose of a regular style station. It can't be the price or size. Conventional, basic 850D type Hakko clones are often found around USD$60. and really don't take up that much more room.I bought one those when I bought my desoldering station around 3 years ago and never had any problems with it until recently. It seems that I have an intermittent in one of the wires to the heater. That can easily happen with one of these handle fan units as well. Mine has seen almost daily service and the repair would be trivial. But at this price, 2 heating element replacements, and 3 years, it's paid for itself after the first few repairs. I've yet to see any commercial shop locally using one of these handle blower types either.Given, most everything else is comparatively equal and maybe a slight savings in bench real estate, it there any significant reason to choose a handle blower model over a conventional airpump/hose unit?I've even noticed that some vendors provide nozzles for some of these units that are not of the generic screw tightened compression variety and require the use of a provided spanner to change nozzles. I would assume that limits the choice of nozzles as well.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 08:57:27 pm
content: ^ You can fit the screw in ones too and you don't need the spanner at all unless you want to hot-swap it ( literally HOT )These brushless fan ones are cheaper and easier to replace if the fan fails, unlike some proprietary pump that when failed, is unobtainiumSame goes for the Pace/Hakko/Weller/Ersa onesAnd plus it's not much heavier on the handle whereas the 850 clones are pretty heavy due to a pump and are much bigger(If you notice, these units have much more power, 700W)

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 09:45:56 pm
content: I concur with DaveXRQ, also 850D copies or similar designs with the pneumatic pump in the base-station have off/on quality, its hard to say whom since there are so many look alikes. Generally, the 850D shoebox style rework station cost more than the 858D, butsomemay not cost much more.What sold me on the 858D were stories of its reliability, but moreso when Dave did a tear down, most parts are easily found anywhere in the world.The pneumatic pump has more moving parts and tubings than the fan approach of the 858D. If they are functionally similar, KISS has better odds of longer term reliability and durability.http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3528

author: Dawn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2012, 11:08:36 pm
content: Granted that a squirrel cage fan is much simpler then the diaphragm pump. But should the case arise that you need to replace one, short of cannibalizing another unit, you don't stand much of a chance finding a 24V fan that will fit on the open market anymore then finding a compatible pump. Perhaps the importers have damaged/junker/returned units they will strip as a service, but individual parts for any of these Chinese units may be difficult to get. I found a source in the UK selling replacement pumps for my Aoyue's at USD $29 plus shipping. Replacement diaphragms are available from my dealer at $6 USD.Actually, that's all that ever goes wrong with them. I owned two old Pace desoldering stations from the 70's. One has a rather powerful GAST pump, the other was a diaphragm unit that never failed in over 30 years.Having said all this, it probably wouldn't be hard to convert any of these units to shop air if the pump failed and all else was working.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2012, 01:44:05 am
content: This is good to know, thanks Dawn.When I got an 858D ~ a year ago, I did locate the wearable parts to look for potential substitutes. The less likely to fail or be lost parts like nozzles, are easy to obtain as it has the same fit as similar units, and even whole handpiece can be purchase separately that at worst, electronics reassembled into it if not identical electrically.The blower fan is A501524H 24V 2.6W, that is 50mm diameter, operating 15-24VDC. The lead maker is Delta Electronics, Taiwan, and their stock number is BFB0524HH. In some fans, such as Dave's in the videos, the screw mounts are ground or filed out to allow it to fit.http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BFB0524HH/603-1116-ND/1014447The heater is a problem because it has 4 versions, with the same serial number: ce2007031-812. This refers to the hot air workstation 852D, which several stations use too. You must specify VAC, 110 or 220VAC, then whether its for brushless fan or diaphragm pump versions!Quote from: Dawn on June 05, 2012, 11:08:36 pm

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2012, 12:13:21 pm
content: And then there's the problem with selectig how much heating capacity you wantThe 852 models are 280W and the 858/898/8586/8786 use 700W heaters ( there are a shitload more models that use this heater but i ain't gonna list them all )

author: Kilroy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2012, 03:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 06, 2012, 12:13:21 pmAnd therein lies the main problem I have with these hot air thingies.For any reasonable electronics work you only need one airflow speed (very low) accompanied by a suitable air temperature (400 - 500 degrees C). And that's it. Why the extra complication?Unless you are going to use the things to strip paint or some such..

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2012, 05:21:05 pm
content: The added heating capacity is great for with the brushless fan combination because the air output is just behind the heater,so you can bump up a great wind speed and have the same warm up timeThe 850b and the variants you most likely guess it, yes it's weak.So weak that any more heating power it will easily overpower the pump but i can tell from casagrande's video that it does take some time and the wind output is not fantastic, with the proper delta fan these 858d's can kick major assWho says no to rapid heating ? The same way some people want metcal for the induction heating when JBC doesn't even use induction heating and matches the speed of a metcal but to be fair JBC is pretty expensive same for Metcal ( And you can't even adjust temperature )

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2012, 08:17:48 pm
content: Yes, and its all very vague. These sellers suggest the 852D+ [ which differs from the 852D as it has a soldering iron too] and the 858D have the same heater:http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-220V-Hot-Air-Gun-Heating-Element-Core-for-SAIKE-898D-852D-878-858-8858-/120890327955?pt=BI_Welding_Supplies&hash=item1c25a00393http://www.ebay.com/itm/1X-heating-element-solder-rework-station-for-898D-110V-/220975069320?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Supply_Material_Handling_ET&hash=item337323f888I'll double check, but IIRC the "WEP" 858D, not Atten brand, didn't exceed 400W at its maximum output of 450C, but all the ads for it say it uses 700W, and < 400W is what I personally measured. I think another user using a Yihua branded 858 found the same, < 400W.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog-specific/eevblog-167-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-review/msg99609/#msg99609Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 06, 2012, 12:13:21 pmThe 852Aat ~ 250W has a different element design, and that can help separate which type of heater.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heating-Element-For-Hot-Air-rework-Gun-Aoyue-850A-852A-768-968-2702A-/120831649079?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item1c2220a537http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Air-Gun-Heating-Core-for-952-952C-950D-850A-850B-/220770303950?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3366ef7fce

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2012, 12:23:06 am
content: Just did the measurements, it peaks at 600W easily, and then very quickly settles down to intermitten burst of 0-300W, depending on the airflow, to maintain 480C. So DaveXRQ is right, the 858D is a 700W item.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2012, 12:24:22 pm
content: I've received my 858D a few days ago. Interestingly the sleep function doesn't kick in immediately but keeps the blower running until the heater is cooled down so at first it seems it doesn't shut down when the handle is placed in the holder.The wiring could be better. Maybe I'll add a ground lead from the inlet to the case.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2012, 01:26:35 pm
content: The sleep function keeps the fan running to cool the handle down to 100C before it shuts the fan off too; the heater power is shut off as soon as you put it in the cradle.Yes, I would suggest you remediate the wiring and check all the faults we detailed on these threads.Quote from: nctnico on July 03, 2012, 12:24:22 pm

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2012, 07:30:41 pm
content: It's not supposed to shut down in the handle till it goes to 100C then it goes to sleep

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2012, 12:48:04 am
content: Unfortunately I can't read Chinese and the only English on the user manual is 'user manual'. However I suspect the Chinenglish version of the manual is probably just as helpfull to me as the Chinese version.

author: Fishplate42
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2012, 04:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 04, 2012, 12:48:04 amI should of read that first, see:http://ralphsworkshop.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/now-let-me-tell-you-story.htmlOnce I had sorted this out and corrected the earth fault to the case, I was (and still am) really pleased with this little unit.Ralph.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 02:51:32 am
content: I bought mine from the mobile phone parts market in China a few years ago. I was recommended the analog model with fan speed and temp control. The fan on the handle is much 'advanced' unit at that time. It is mains powered heater so its lighter in weight, losing the transformer.There was a stall selling all the soldering tools with the covers removed to reveal the hardware and controls. I bought it and never looked back. If you walked around the mobile repair stalls section, almost all are using these fan blower type.I am not sure how long it will last but I use it frequently to heatshrink. I have a preheater so I never really had to use the hot air for too long, usually a few tens of seconds to raise from preheating temperature to melting point.The parts are plenty and easy to come by.tapatalk

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 04:21:55 am
content: the basic design is brilliant (no there isn't any transformer other then the control circuitry transformer in any of the hot air machines)BUTYihua likes to skimpYihua placed such a small heatsink on my 858D that it burned out within a month with not much use maybe 10mins at a timeWhy? the heatsink was over 30C/W and the triac was throwing what was like 2W-3WCouple that with a crazy ambient temperature plus a mad amount of humidity and BAMM triac died