Handheld power drilling in to aluminium, best hope of accuracy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 02:48:54 pm
content: How accurately can one plausibly hope to drill holes in to aluminium with a handheld power drill?I've been trying to put some clearance holes for screws (holes themselves sized at 3mm, 5mm, 6mm and 7mm) in to aluminium plates (thicknesses 5mm to 15mm). I printed a template on A4 paper, and glued it to the metal, then lined up the drill...Well, whatever I did the bit wandered by amounts of up to 2mm. That is to say the centres of the holes actually drilled ended up usually 1mm or 2mm away from where the marked centred point on the template showed they should be. Also, on the 15mm thick piece the holes ended up somewhat slanted rather than perfectly perpendicular to the plate's surface.I was using a mains powered "impact" style drill, with the hammer/impact mode disabled so it ran like a normal handheld power drill. For all holes I made a 3mm pilot, and in most cases this was when the wandering happened, not when I widened the holes with larger bits afterwards.To be clear, the aluminium was held in a vice (small table vice with a ball and socket feature to let you position it in a wide variety of orientations) clamped to the side of a fairly heavy wooden table, so didn't shake much, and probably not at all when doing the initial 3mm pilots. I was drilling vertically downward, the aluminium plates sitting on a horizontal plane.Also, I aided the drilling accuracy using my own design of 3d printed "portable drill press" (inspired by thishttps://www.printables.com/model/1081287-portable-drill-pressdepth-stop-attachment-for-handbut a bit heftier and more rigid than that design), which makes getting the accuracy to within that 2mm error very easy indeed. With this structure it is much easier to drill somewhat accurately than I've ever found it when using a drill entirely freehand, but I still can't eliminate that up-to-2mm of wander. For my drill there's a "hammer drill style" side handle, which can be fitted at the same time as I've got the sliding "portable drill press" attached, and I can push on the back of the handle which holds the trigger switch (smooth range of speeds, continuous from zero upwards). It is possible that both the pushing from the side handle and the main grip might be slightly misaligned to the drill's centre and nudging the drill bit off-centre though.I was running it slowly, probably a few hundred rpm at peak, far below the (3000rpm I think) max speed of the drill, and applying a lot of downward pressure on it. The swarf which came out of the holes was, once deeper in, good big corkscrews suggesting a clean cut, though the chips generated when initially entering were rather smaller while the drill bit made it's first impression in to the aluminium.At times I applied a low viscosity lubricating oil when drilling, on some holes I forgot this, it's presence made the drilling smoother but it's preence or abscence did not affect the tendency for holes to wander.Have I any plausible hope of being able to get these holes within <1mm of where their centres should be, or should I give up and get a drill press of some sort?I'd much rather not have to buy an extra and inconveniently bulky tool, but I expect over the coming months to need to do quite a bit more drilling of holes in to aluminium plates, and they will need to be centred within 1mm tolerance of where they should be. Also, some of the holes are scattered across plates as big as 50cm by 25cm area, so trying to find a way to clamp one of those under a drill press and move it between holes would be tricky? (Whereas with a handheld power drill I can just hold it in a vice from the side of a table them move the drill to the place for each hole, only undoing the vice and repositioning the sheet once all holes within say 10cm of the vice's jaws have been done).Thanks

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 02:53:10 pm
content: Before drilling the 3 mm pilot, what center punch did you use, and how deep?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 02:54:12 pm
content: Are you using a centre punch?Try using brad point drill bits?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 03:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on April 08, 2025, 02:48:54 pmAfter many decades of my drilling holes with a handheld drill I have to admit to be only 1mm off is a pretty good result..Best you punch a small dip with a needle as precise as possible, then drill it through with say 1-1.5mm dia bit, and then follow with a larger diameter.Also mind you will never get round holes (especially with larger dia) when doing it in hand. The drill tool must be firmly mounted.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 03:42:57 pm
content: I tried centre punching, I took a solid centre punch (not one of those automatic ones with the spring) lined it up and struck the back end of it with a metal hammer. But it barely left a mark in the aluminium. I assume this barely visible, so slight one can barely even feel the little pit when running a finger across it, dent from the punch wouldn't have helped with guidance. I'm not sure if centre-punching works when you've got thick plates of metal (even soft metal like aluminium)??Also, with the paper template in place some of the punching "force" will have been "wasted" in the paper, although even when trying this on bare aluminium it didn't make much off a dent.Furthermore, I found some of the holes to begin wandering even after haing done some drilling, so the drill initially touched in the right spot and started to move off course after having made the little conical crater of the first fraction of an mm of depth.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 03:48:39 pm
content: Center punch and sharp drill bits are yer freinds

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 03:52:10 pm
content: Solid center punches are more accurate than the spring-loaded automatic ones.However, they come in sizes.My set of Starrett punches comprises 1/16, 5/64, 3/32, 1/8, and 5/32 inch diameter units.If you aren't getting a substantial indent, you should try a smaller diameter punch.In my youth, I was taught to use a mallet, not a hammer, to hit a punch or cold chisel: this is a safety issue, rather than an accuracy issue.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 05:05:22 pm
content: Center punching is almost mandatory for good accuracy. Even the hardest aluminum should succumb to a center punch. I like the General #78 heavy duty automatic center punch for and steel and thick aluminum:https://generaltools.com/heavy-duty-automatic-center-punch

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 05:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on April 08, 2025, 03:42:57 pmyou must have barely hit it or used a microscopic hammer

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 05:25:16 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on April 08, 2025, 02:48:54 pmIt might be worth just biting the bullet now rather than later if you've got more work in this area in the immediate future. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to purchase an extra tool, but you'll likely find a lot of use from a pillar drill in general.There seem to be some cost-effective options on eBay (including fairly compact ones, such as the one in the attached screenshot, if space is an issue), if you're OK with purchasing used. I end up using a manual mill as a pillar drill, and rarely drill holes in alu plate with a handheld tool as a result.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 05:56:51 pm
content: I can get well below 0.3 mm using a wood screw to punch the center, a table drill rig in order to guide the drilling machine vertically and a small vise to maintain the parts surface in horizontal. The table drill rig is a cheap thing with a mount for a handheld drilling machine. Sometimes it comes together with the vise.Regards, Dieter

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 06:11:32 pm
content: (Joke:) Perhaps you should use a vise instead of a vice?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 09:01:39 pm
content: You should definitely practice your centre punch technique, and back the panel on a solid surface when punching. You should hit hard enough to get the desired depth with a single hit only (multiple hits can cause the crater to wander). Make sure the drill sits in the 'crater' rather than accidentally catching on the outside of the 'rim' ( using volcanic terms).A centre drill (as used in metal lathes) is much more rigid than a twist drill and can help you start a hole accurately, as long as you hold the drill absolutely vertical.One other tip, the optical centre punch is an awesome invention. It allows you to look down a perspex rod lens with cross hairs, align the hole perfectly with the drawing, withdraw the lens and insert the punch (it's all tight tolerance), then strike with a perfect accuracy that you will never achieve when peering from the side of a normal punch. Once you've used one, you'll never go back when you need accuracy (unless you forget to swap in the the punch and strike the lens instead!). I only use a normal center punch for rough work and walls these days. [Edit: sadly they're not cheap though]

author: JoanBS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 09:53:55 pm
content: Your problem is that you're applying too much pressure to the drill, which could bend the bit, and that you're operating at too low rpm. To achieve what you want, you'll need a good punch, a sharp drill bit, and a column drill. Starting with a 2 or 3 mm drill bit at around 1500-2000 rpm, don't apply too much force, as aluminum is very soft. As you increase the diameter of the hole, you'll need to reduce the rpm appropriately.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 01:23:24 am
content: You can center punch and clamp a drill guide, use the punch to align it before clamping if possible. Either buy or make yourself.https://www.homedepot.ca/product/milescraft-drillblock-hand-held-drill-guide/10016754811mm accuracy already seems decent for a drill press.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 01:52:05 am
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on April 08, 2025, 02:48:54 pmThis is certainly a good way to make a drill wander and produce off-centre or misshapen holes.What you should do instead: make a drill guide. Take a block of hardwood about two inches thick or so, and drill a vertical hole in it as best you can. Place this guide directly over the place where you want the hole to go (use a screw of the right size to line up the hole with your centre-punched mark) and clamp it down tightly onto the workpiece so it can't move. Now drill down through the guide hole, using a high drill speed and just enough pressure to make the drill bite, no more. Now the drill can't wander because the drill guide will hold it in place. Your hole will be where you want it to be.If you are drilling lots of holes, invest in a pillar drill (drill press).Suggestion: watch as many Matthias Wandel videos as you can. You will learn so many practical tips.

author: the Chris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 03:28:10 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 08, 2025, 09:01:39 pmGood advice that I had to find out myself not too long ago. Even if well punched, the combination of a centre drill and a drill punch will allow for much more precise positioned hole than handhold drilling. This is especially true for small holes with diameters like 3mm where a standard drill will bend like hell.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 04:13:51 am
content: inspect all that shit under a microscope its probobly chipped, dull, bent, rounded or otherwise failed punches and drill bits, 1mm accuracy is pretty bad, that is like free hand with no 'prep'roll the drill bit on a flat and see if it wobbles tooits EASY to damage these stuff or get it damaged from the store and its easy to miss the defect until you do the same thing you always do and see that you are off by alot. crap temper on a punch that makes part of the tip spall off and make weird spike indents that make the drill drift

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 07:12:36 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 08, 2025, 05:56:51 pmOn small diameters, "well below 0.3mm" is better than a traditional milling machine, impressive

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 07:17:38 am
content: I think that milling machine might need some serious service (12 thou)operated by a ogre for 35 years to hog stainless?last time I saw this 'problem' haunting someone, I took their drill bit and rolled it on a metal plate and noted the similarity to a banana, gave them a normal drill bit and the problem went away.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 07:54:05 am
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on April 09, 2025, 07:12:36 amYes, this is after many years of exercise.Another observation: One can start drilling with little vertical force and let the piece "auto-center" by the vibrations before fixing the vise to the table of the drill rig. But the more important part is having a good (fresh?) drill bit and have it work orthogonal on the surface.Over the weekend i worked on two pieces of copper - much more difficult than aluminum. Nobody wanted to offer the service. I had to buy a new set of drill bits as the old ones were damaged at their forward cutting edges and would cause a lot of vibration instead of rotating smoothly.The copper pieces have 50 x 50 x 20 mm and the large holes have 14 mm diameter. Meanwhile i made four of these pieces.Regards, Dieter

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:24:53 am
content: these technologies might help toohttps://www.mcmaster.com/products/drill-bushings/

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:42:21 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 09, 2025, 07:54:05 amHow do you get rid of the standard lenght HSS drill bit deflection ? these tiny diameters are very easy to bend and oscillate also very easely.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:00:17 am
content: Quote from: Coordonnée_chromatique on April 09, 2025, 08:42:21 amCan't give you professional advice, but i use that "auto-center" method before fixing the vise with the piece in it to the table of the drilling rig. And i am taking my time in order to avoid damaging drill bits. Also i buy new ones when it happens. For the copper work i used a plastic cover under the drilling rig, so i can spill cooling water over the piece and the water gets collected in a bucket below. With cooling drill bits last better. As soon as you see steam you know something is wrong.Regards, Dieter

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:05:37 am
content: Well the thing I am wondering is why you have tiny drill HSS. Usually tiny holes you drill with carbide. Its like not the right material for drilling tiny holesI don't like anything under like #50 to be done with HSS

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:20:13 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 09, 2025, 09:00:17 amYou've find a way to perform your job with crappy tools, now you are ready to work as a production engineer !Oh nooooooo

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:21:10 am
content: I recommend trying to do something else with your life if you still can. Production engineering really makes you feel the bad parts of 'capitalism'. It feels like being at the source of the discontenthe is making thousands a day but won't buy a new drill bit.when you get to that area its like you start to think "ah, this must be where it all started..." Like finding the first page of the dawn of an ancient saga of the first dynasty at year zero. It almost deserves a montage in a movie like 2001 a space odyssey. Some how everything ends up pointing back to this moment.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:30:41 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 09, 2025, 09:21:10 amEvery project that i've worked on was a "space odyssey".

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:32:42 am
content: you can close the loop with carbide and then go on the long journey to get access to a edm broke drill remover and then when you retire someone will think its a good idea to go back to hss and sell the edm tool in auction

author: Poroit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:40:09 am
content: G'day Infraviolet,Lash out and buy a decent drill press and vice.https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/search?s=drill+press&srsltid=AfmBOoopu7O_A9cmX6GewnS_bP7DNnl-w75hxx5t983ZUs8QTDSsaDcbThis will give you much better control will the drilling accuracy.Have used this method multiple times for drilling mounting holes for Raspberry Pi PCB's

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 12:32:05 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 09, 2025, 09:05:37 amI wouldn't risk small carbide in a handheld drill, they're far too brittle and likely to snap.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 01:12:48 pm
content: true, if you search my threads, you will see I had some success using carbide in a pen drill, and also using HSS in a pen drill, for very small holes.A normal hand drill is just too big to do a small hole operation ok. a pen drill free hand is kinda OK but its a luck of draw to get one with a collet thats mimially wobbly

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 04:08:23 pm
content: For small holes, like in printed circuit boards, they make small high speed drill presses.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:34:47 pm
content: One very good investment when drilling aluminium is buying some Relton A9 cutting fluid. This make drilling & milling aluminium much easier.For the drilling process itself: buy sharp, A-brand quality HSS drills. A pillar drill is also a good investment and these things last for decades. I'm still using the first one I got as a teenager.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:42:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 09, 2025, 08:34:47 pmethanol work like absolute magic for drilling, cutting, and milling aluminium and it doesn't smell or leave a mess

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2025, 02:30:25 pm
content: I was just watching the latest video by Dan Gelbart, and there was some good workshop tips including related to drilling.I you haven't seen his videos before (or even if you have) I'd suggest it might be worth browsing through his older videos. The Building Prototypes series is great.

author: Langdon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 06:27:15 pm
content: You need a drill press.Hand drilling is a bad idea in general.It's bad for your wrist, bad for the bit, and probably bad for the drill (most handheld drills are brushed; most drill presses are brushless).Get some "used" drill press.I does not need to be very well made, unless you plan to use it extensively.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 07:42:54 pm
content: Thanks for such a thorough discussion. I've seen Dan Gelbart's vids before, they are good, that new one should be useful.And the notes about centre punching will give me some more things to try, looks like I'd better practice drilling a bunch more holes to see what works.Somehow I'd got in to the habit of thinking really slow speeds were good, and that the bigger and more cork-screw-like the swarf was the better I was doing. I certainly found at earlier times that drilling was a real misery if I ran the drill fast but didn't push it particularly hard against the metal workpiece, I'd also been assuming that since fast-with-low-pressure was much louder than slow-with-strong-pressure that the former was wasting a lot of power as sound and by heating the workpiece (swarf that came off was almost dust like) where the latter was efficiently making clean holes.I am wondering about 3d printing a mount, containing a bunch of shielded ball bearings each with an inner diameter matching a common drill bit sizes, which I could hold against the metal workpiece whilst drilling, held a bit like this concept (https://youtu.be/w0jQToyLNDA?feature=shared&t=42) . But I'm not sure whether, with one hand holding that guide, I'd be able, given the shape of the power drill's trigger handle, to push the drill down straight enough and hard enough? And given it is aluminium, not steel, which I almost always expect to be drilling in to, I can't use magnets to hold it either.Also, regarding drill presses/pillar drills, how do you clamp big "sheet" (sold as plate not sheet because aluminium sheet is usually the name for 2mm thick and less) materials for one? I can see easily how a drill press vice can hold small block shaped objects, but when you want to hold a sheet of say 50cm by 25cm, what do you do? For holding this for hand drilling you can put it in a table vice with the narrow thickness dimension parallel to the direction the vice closes in, then come in with a handheld drill from any direction. But for drilling vertically in to it, well the jaws of a normal vice or a drill press vice are the wrong way round and won't open anywhere near wide enough for a 25cm width of a sheet. And depending on the horizontal distance from the vertical column of the drill press to the position of the drill chuck, one can't necessarily get to the centre of a large sheet either?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 07:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on April 09, 2025, 08:42:28 pmBut it is flammable. And the Relton A9 works even better. I used various kinds of alcohol before so I know the differenceQuote from: Infraviolet on April 13, 2025, 07:42:54 pmFor large sheets which don't fit under a drill press, you use a hand drill. With the appropriate cutting fluid (like the Relton A9 I mentioned before or some form of alcohol), drilling aluminium becomes much easier. For small holes I think I'm using around 1500 rpm for aluminium. If you need two pieces to fit together perfectly, drill both at the same time while the two pieces are clamped together. The absolute position of the hole won't matter as they will line up perfectly.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 08:44:17 pm
content: The relevant dimension for a drill press is "swing": the clearance from the vertical post to the center of the chuck.Typical values range from 8 to 20 inches (200 to 1600 mm), smaller for tabletop drills used for PCBs, etc.If you need to drill near the center of the plate, your swing must be greater than half the shorter dimension of the plate.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 08:56:09 pm
content: Even the harbor freight drill press will be significantly better than hand drilling. Yes, the chuck has some runout and the bearings aren't the best, but I still use that tabletop drill press often for smaller work.Small drill presses show up all the time used. Marketplace, Craigslist, etc. A buddy got two morse3 arbor floor standing drill presses from an equipment auction for $30 recently. It would have to be seriously broken to not give you an advantage over hand drilling.Plus new tools day is always a good day.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 09:09:28 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on April 08, 2025, 02:48:54 pmA tolerance of around half a mm is doable with little tools and a bit of practice.Start with marking the location with a scriber. Scratch two lines perpendicular to each other (you need these later).Then use a center punch to mark the spot where the lines intersect. First make a small dimple, and check (a magnifying glass helps.)You can correct the location of the center punch a bit by putting the center punch under an angle before hitting it a second (third) time.3mm is a nice diameter for pre-drilling. It also helps if the drill is sharp.With a HSS drill (most common) cutting speed for Auminimum is around 30m/min. That results in 30*1000/pi/3 = 3200rpm.When you start drilling, first enlarge the dimple form the center punch. until it has a diameter of around 2mm. Then stop drilling and check the center location. You can correct the center location by holding the drill under an angle. You have to experiment a bit which angle works best, When the angle is too small, you push the drill out of the dimple you already made, when to perpendicular, you stay in the old location and just drill deeper.Once you have started drilling, you can't see the dimple from the center punch anymore. That's why the scribe lines are useful. You can still see if the hole you started is in the center of the scribe lines.You can keep making corrections until you're drilling the full diameter of the drill.If you get too deep, then you can for example use a 5mm drill and attempt another correction by drilling under an angle.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2025, 10:37:46 pm
content: Another one i remembered now: If for some reason i really have to hand drill without the drill rig, sometimes i turn the drilling machine by 180° around its axis, so i don't hold it on its handle but closer to its axis. Thus forces driving the machine out of the vertical position will be less and the hole stays where it started.Regards, Dieter

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 12:52:13 am
content: I have a drilling guide for my normal hand drill, however a normal hand drill is really not fast enough for small holes unless maybe you find a higher RPM one. I do not see any drill guides for Dremel type tools, so I would use a metal drill guide for small drills and a Dremel type tool.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 01:30:00 am
content: Crazy high rpm for small drills isn't such a big deal in a garage shop. If you are running production and you need your tools to last longer and hold crazy precision then ya. But don't sweat it too much if you can't get a 6-32 tap drill to run at 8000rpm or whatever machinery handbook says. You will still get a hole at 500rpm. Just use cutting fluid, clear the chip often and keep good drill pressure.Accuracy is more about having a rigid setup (drill press) and center drilling.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 06:37:23 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 08, 2025, 06:11:32 pmThe OP is in the UK so a vice is the correct thing to use. While "a vise" is French for on target  which is what the OP is aiming for, it's more an abstract concept than something you can use. By "French for ..." I mean learned-in-school-French, not native-language French.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 06:46:14 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 08, 2025, 09:01:39 pmCame here to say the same thing. One comment apart from the high price is that I find them pretty fiddly to work with, you really want to be sure you need fraction-of-a-mm accuracy before faffing around with them if you're doing more than one or two holes. The biggest hassle is keeping things on centre when you're swapping out the lens for the punch and groping around for the hammer to hit it with.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 07:01:59 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 09, 2025, 01:23:24 amI've found those through-hole drill guides to be pretty terrible. The problem is that they have to have enough play in them to allow the drill to turn freely and not get clogged with ejected material from the workpiece, which means it can wobble around quite a bit in the guide. I got much better results with a centre punch to direct the drill bit.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 07:27:46 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on April 14, 2025, 06:37:23 amhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/vise-and-vice-they-mostly-arent-the-same-thing

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 08:27:58 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 13, 2025, 07:46:13 pmI think I see your problem there, DUI (drilling under the influence) never helps with accuracy :-).

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 10:59:03 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on April 14, 2025, 01:30:00 amIt does not have to be crazy high, but 600 RPM is too slow.

author: Langdon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 01:49:35 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on April 14, 2025, 07:27:46 amYour link disagrees entirely with your reply.Did you actually read the dictionary link?EDIT:BREAKING NEWS: Differing dialects of English and usage of superfluous "taught-in-school" French lead to mass confusion!(never mind)NOTE: Since vises (the cast iron+steel kind) aren't really sold, manufactured, or written about much anymore, the spelling of "vise" is not widely known.This is actually the first time I've seen a vise discussed in writing.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 01:55:26 pm
content: In the uk its a vice regardless of wot borrowers of the english language call it.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 03:17:03 pm
content: Quote from: Langdon on April 14, 2025, 01:49:35 pmyes I did, did you read who wrote what?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 03:56:57 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on April 14, 2025, 03:17:03 pmNote that this time, realizing that subtlety is wasted on some people, I went to the trouble of labeling my comment as a joke.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 04:20:58 pm
content: On the eastern side of the Atlantic, "-ise" is typically pronounced like "-ize" (compare advice with advise), hence the clamping tool is a vice, since "-ice" makes the expected sound.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 04:40:42 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on April 14, 2025, 04:20:58 pmSo Miami Vice was a TV show about work holding?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 04:42:03 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on April 14, 2025, 04:40:42 pmNo, in Florida they are capable of nice distinctions.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 04:49:08 pm
content: Quoteno it was about squeezing criminals

author: Langdon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 06:07:58 pm
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on April 14, 2025, 08:27:58 amFunny when you first read it the first time, less so when you realise the dangerous implications of DUI (drilling under influence).This is also somewhat true; the alchohol will likely evaporate somewhat and some will end up being inhaled by you.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 06:24:51 pm
content: Relton A9 MSDS/SDS:QuoteI have known machinists who used kerosene or diesel.

author: Langdon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 09:27:52 pm
content: Diesel/kerosene + hot bit = fire.Be careful!!!!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 09:36:13 pm
content: I have had good results in aluminum using "Boelube", developed by Boeing.https://www.aircraft-tool.com/Detail?id=BL90Advertised as "Completely non-toxic, non-irritating and biodegradable. Non-corrosive, non-flammable, chemically stable and free of halogens, heavy metals, suflur, phosporous, silicone, petroleum and paraffin wax."

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 10:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: Langdon on April 14, 2025, 09:27:52 pmwe are talking drips not a swimming pool

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2025, 11:28:26 pm
content: @LangdonBS The recommended Relton A9 is far more flammable.Edit:The flashpoint of diesel is more than 120°F. Flashpoint of gasoline is -45°F. Depending on quantity, diesel does not need to be labeled as flammable (https://www.jjkeller.com/learn/when-does-diesel-fuel-require-placards?)

author: Chris Mr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 01:26:06 pm
content: Have a PCB made with the holes you want over-sized. The size of the oversize being that of the outside diameter of a tube whose inside diameter is the diameter of the drill / hole you want.Then you can put the PCB on the aluminium sheet (clamped down) and put the tube in the hole.. followed by the drill. The tube keeps the drill within a gnats wotnot and allows the drill to spin. The tube can be replaced as often as you like - and it only needs to be short anyway.

author: Langdon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 03:41:46 pm
content: Yeah, but kerosene is still a bit flammable.Also, you know I'm Canadian, I don't understand fahrenheit!

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2025, 06:24:17 pm
content: Just remember that -40°C = -40°FThe point is that diesel will burn, of course, but it is considered combustible in small quantities; whereas, the more volatile hydrocarbons are considered flammable even in small quantities. In a practical sense, a motor boat with an inboard diesel engine (e.g., a small sailboat) is not much of a concern, but I would never consider getting into a boat with gasoline powered engine inboard. I use heavier hydrocarbon-based cleaning solvents in my parts washer for that reason too.Google AIQuote