AliExpress Hello-GoodBye - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 07:12:26 am
content: I placed my first order with AliExpress today. Turns out that it will apparently be my last order as well. When I found something else I wanted to buy, my credit card (Bank of America) blocked the second transaction until they contacted me to confirm that it was legitimate.But too late. AliExpress has now rejected my card until I send them half a dozen personal documents including drivers license, passport, etc. etc. etc. Of course, I am NOT going to do that just to do business with this dodgy scheme. If they can't do business with the normal credit card mechanism used by everyone else on the planet, I will vote with my feet and shop elsewhere. Bye-bye, Ali.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 07:14:36 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 05, 2017, 07:12:26 amYes, a "dodgy scheme" that does double the business of Amazon.Your comment is very American.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 07:20:24 am
content: Quote from: boffin on September 05, 2017, 07:14:36 amThey are welcome to do business with people who place no value on their private information. That won't include me. They won't miss me and I won't miss them, either.QuoteYou are probably right. My perception is that part of the world plays pretty fast and loose with information security. I'm not going to contribute to the problem by sending them information I wouldn't even share with my own bank or government officials.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 07:55:24 am
content: I 100% agree with you Richard. Bugger that. If I placed an order with a retailer/reseller, they only need know my payment details and shipping address. Nothing more. Not even my legal name.People are too "free" with information these days.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 08:09:00 am
content: Weird that they need all that information. They should use an intermediate that handles all that administrative stuff, if your shipping address differs from the billing address on the credit card then and only in that case there should be an extra inquiry because fraude is too real these days. Can't you use Paypal, it should not have that kind of trouble ?BTW I also would not provide those documents, they can be used for identity fraud, so we are not even allowed to make copies of our passport without deleting a lot of sensitive information.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 08:23:35 am
content: I haven't had an issue like that, but I agree I would not send them that stuff. That's just silly.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 08:24:49 am
content: I've had this before as well. Instant card block! I no longer use Aliexpress. They are not entitled to my personal information and I am offended that they even requested it.Companies that treat you like this need to understand that we are actively choosing to do business with them and they need to treat you well. If they put up a barrier to entry there are 10 other sources of the same crap without that barrier.The real reason they do this is liability limit because they have such a bad reputation and want to play CYA against the fraudsters purchasing. Really do you want to do business in that arena? Hell no.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 08:37:07 am
content: I buy several things a week from Aliexpress and have never had this problem, and of the 200 + thigns i've orderd, i've only had a few bad deals and none of that was to do with aliexpress.My credit card company rang me a few years ago, to ask if it was me, making the transaction and i confirmd it.. never been a problem.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 09:04:10 am
content: They want to check you because there was something dodgy about the purchase (blocked card). Now if you are so American, I'll tell you something about (American) Mouser. They asked for my passport evenwithout trying to chargemy card.Quote

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 09:05:51 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 05, 2017, 08:24:49 amOffendatron, LOL

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 09:35:16 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 05, 2017, 09:05:51 amYes!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 09:44:39 am
content: Hahaha

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 09:54:46 am
content: Well, that may be your mistake that you checked to "save my credit card".

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 09:55:46 am
content: Why are you not pissed at Bank of America for causing the problem in a first place.. I was.. While we lived in USA, my wife took kids back to Europe for a vacation, and retards blocked her card because of "suspicious transactions" in EU.... It took me 48 hours of hell to make it work.. Imagine trying to pay for food and room, and card is only money she had.. They blocked both of them she had... I had to wire her money for few days until cards worked again... USA banks seem to be really trigger happy to block transactions to non USA companies, and outside USA..And Aliexpress is OBLIGED by current card issuer rules, that in case transaction is blocked by issuer on grounds of possible fraud, to establish unequivocally that card is in a possession of rightful owner and no foul play is going on... That includes multiple identification documents and such.That being said, I agree with you that I also wouldn't be comfortable giving them all this info on grounds of not being sure it would be protected properly and not misused..I would probably not give it to them myself either.But I would be pissed at BoA for causing trouble and disappointed for not being able to use ALiEx anymore...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:27:28 am
content: When I went to the USA, I wanted to pay. They did not wanted to accept my embossed Matercard debit card, they wanted a credit card. What a strange business practice. If I'm spending my own money, not someone else's, thats bad, right?Once they also wanted to pay me with something called "check". That I need to take into my bank. Personally. They asked, where I'm from, I told them. Which state? Europe, you know, another continent.Also this company called "Paypal" wanted me to fill out a 1099 for some spy agency called IRS. That's like the CIA or the IRA, right?So here is the thing: Business practices are different around the globe.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:28:22 am
content: 2N3055 -- Your situation seems unfortunate. In Australia (at least with my bank), they put suspicious transactions on hold until they can verify they are legit. They first try a phone call, then SMS, then e-mail. If you don't respond, the transaction is reversed, but the entire card/account remains active.I actually appreciate the system and have thanked them many times on the phone for international purchases.If I was to travel overseas, they just put a note on my account.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:30:20 am
content: Yep same here. HSBC call me within 2-3 minutes of the transaction if it's blocked and ask if I've made it and then unblock the card. Then I can retry or not bother.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:35:54 am
content: I bought many times from AliExpress, once I canceled an order after I paid it but before delivery, and once the package didn't arrive. Both times AliExpress refunded me the money in a couple of hours.Never have a card blocked because of making AliExpress payments, and it happened to make maybe 10-20 different payments of about $400 in total in just a couple of hours. Unless the amounts were not considerable big, then I think the bank was acting weird.Blocking a card for two payments to the same seller looks to me like paranoia, not like protecting customers.What if I decide to stay for another beer after I already payed the big bill? Will I be arrested for not paying the last beer because the bank decided to lock my money?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:44:32 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 05, 2017, 09:55:46 amThat's a pisser, but you'd be thanking them, if someone had stolen/cloned your card and gone to Europe. I agree, they could have made it easier for you to authorise the transactions but initially blocking them wasn't a bad thing to do.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:54:08 am
content: AFAIK you have a month or so to contest and reverse a transaction, so it is possible to retrieve the money many days later after a transaction has been closed, so why they don't phone first, then block the card only if you can not be contacted in a day or so?

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 11:33:07 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on September 05, 2017, 10:54:08 amThe credit card network serves multiple parties, with sometimes conflicting interests.In this case, they might be protecting the merchant from fraud whereby a card is stolen/copied/otherwise compromised, then tested on an online merchant for validity, then used online or live to procure merchandise. Just because the authorized user of the card is protected from the financial loss doesn't mean that the bank should be excessively lax about potential fraud or security matters. A fraudster can charge a lot of goods in a "day or so".

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 11:36:45 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 05, 2017, 09:55:46 amThats true, the banks and creditcard companies should introduce some form of logging in and unblocking the card for use in another continent.For my normal bankcard where I can withdraw money from all machines in the EU I also have to login to the bank and clear the default foreign use block, for a certain amount of days.Creditcard companies should do the same or at least call the owner to verify what is going on in case of suspicious transactions.That said I had a neighbour that was called at home here in the Netherlands in the middle of the night if she was shopping in Tokyo because someone wanted to buy an expensive camera with her copied card. So sometimes it is ok to block certain transactions as long as they are not lifelyhood critical such as in your case.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 11:53:56 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on September 05, 2017, 10:54:08 amBecause criminal already defrauded the seller. If it was physical goods, those might be stopped before dispatch but not guaranteed. If it was digital delivery, criminal already got the goods.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 12:03:40 pm
content: The problem here isn't blocking the card, which is perfectly reasonable. It's that if you have a failed transaction authorisation up front, aliexpress block your account and ask for a load of paperwork. As per any other person they should just fail the checkout process and allow a retry.

author: polli
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 12:48:16 pm
content: Blocking the card makes sense, as it's probably to limit the use of stolen cards. The fact that they don't allow you to continue shopping after the bank confirmed the transaction might be a technical limitation with a low priority for fixing, since this probably doesn't happen all that often. My CC never had a problem like what you are describing after literally thousands of things bought online on dozens of websites.I think this is perfectly reasonable, as is you voting with your wallet. I doubt a single person will move the needle on their 400 billion dollars market cap at all, though.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 02:56:07 pm
content: AliExpress don't take PayPal, else I would certainly have used it. I did NOT ask for them to store my credit card, I never do that with any vendor no matter where they are.'I didn't anticipate a 100% trouble-free experience from either AliExpress or from their vendors. But the seeming demands for private, sensitive information triggers other alarms. It is great that the bank sensed unusual activity (two close-spaced, rather non-trivial orders to a new, non-local vendor). But the bank released all restrictions within minutes after I contacted them. But too late for AliExpress. What if it had just been a temporary glitch? Of course, that never happens.@wraper, please compare what Mouser requested with what AliExpress requested. i.e. a check-list of half a dozen documents with absolutely zero explanition and no provision for protection of private information.@2N3055, in the fine-print that none of us read, it is recommended that when we travel far away to other countries, we notify the card-issuer so that the automatic detection features won't automatically block the card for suspicious use. I'm sure they have a sophisticated algorithm for fraud-protection, and they probably turn down the threshold as conditions warrant. People who travel internationally already have a history so the algorithm has a different criteria for "unusual activity".Since I rarely travel internationally, I have contacted the card-issuers when I traveled abroad and had no problem. And even then, they protected me when my card was stolen by a flim-flam guy in a shopping mall in Sandton City, Johannesburg. Fortunately, I sufficiently protected the keypad when entering my PIN number so that he had no clue and triggered the lock with dozens of unsuccessful, random attempts.I should have realized that a couple of non-trivial purchases within an hour to a new, foreign vendor would have triggered the fraud detection. I would rather have a hair-trigger at the bank protecting me. I hadn't thought that making online-purchases isn't much diffrent than travelling abroad and doing the same thing.Indeed, I have been called by the bank for other suspicious activity when someone scammed my card number and attempted to use it for very similar, unauthorized puchases. They instantly cancelled the card and issued a new one, so I can't fault them.And yes, I recognize that AliExpress need to protect themselves as well. I will blank out the sensitive numbers, etc. of the requested documents and send them to AliExpress. If they don't like that, well then that is their problem.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 03:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 05, 2017, 02:56:07 pmAmazon does not as well. And obviously Alibaba does not want to support competitor too.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 03:08:16 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 05, 2017, 02:56:07 pmCompare with what? As it seems aliexpress asked for passport or some other document which can confirm your identity. You did not write list of all documents they required from you.Quote

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 03:51:10 pm
content: I tried the order again (just to get to the screen that lists the documents they want), and this time the payment was successful. Dunno what to think now. There are now multiple "orders" with failed payment, but it looks like they are still active. The user interface is pretty confusing.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 04:06:41 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 05, 2017, 03:51:10 pmNo doubt on the last point! You get used to it after a while though.You can probably just ignore the "pending payment" orders.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 04:52:49 pm
content: Also, from my experience, it was always possible to cancel an order if it wasn't shipped yet, even if it was successfully paid, so I guess it should be possible to just cancel the orders with failed payment, and make a new order with a successful payment.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 05:16:55 pm
content: It is a different eco system. Exploring and joining is voluntary. Half empty or half full has no right or wrong answer. Do not want to loose is the same as do not want to gain.I jumped from ebay to aliexpress, and direct onto taobao. It was a big learning curve, and not without pain. There was no turn back. I figure if the platform can grow to ne that big, they must be doing something right, and should be more trustworthy than me as an individual.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 05:38:28 pm
content: I cancelled the duplicate orders and selected the "payment failed" reason.But they still show up in my history as "Product Action: Order Cancelled" and "Order Status: Finished"and with buttons labeled [Track Order] and [Add to Cart] Huh?But then the most recent order where the payment DID go through is labeled:"Product Action: Order Closed" and "Order Status: Closed"and with buttons labeled [Add to Cart] and [Want to Appeal]So at this point I have no clue what is happening. I could get four orders or I could get none.I guess I will just have to wait a couple months and see if anything arrives.It is said that there are more people who speak English in China than there are in the USA.Alas, none of them appear to work at AliExpress....

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 06:46:24 pm
content: Quote from: all_repair on September 05, 2017, 05:16:55 pmOf course it does! If it's my round next the glass is half full, if it's your round next the glass is half empty.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 07:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on September 05, 2017, 10:28:22 amThis is what good card issuers do in the USA too.I think the specific problem is Bank of America. I have observed them to have really consumer unfriendly business practices, as verified by comments in this thread. If you have a choice, bank with someone else.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:00:17 pm
content: When we are traveling outside the US, I always advise my CC companies where I'm going, and the travel dates.I also have SMS alerts enabled once that a transaction exceeds certain limits.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 10:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 05, 2017, 07:12:26 amEveryone else on the planet uses credit cards with such things as chip and pin, non-transfer, etc. 'Murkin cards you can pass to your kid and they can pass to their friends and you can all laugh about how the signature strip was ignored in the shopping mall when they went and bought all that Pabst Blue Ribbon and Pizza. But it doesn't matter anyway because y'all pay the ludicrous interest rates priced for lackadaisical 'murricans and their being prone to fraud but not giving a fuck, and rely on the "justice system" that will get those 15 year old little blighters life in prison if they don't do a Plea Bargain.Why do you hate the rest of the world because they demand proper accountable transactions and no fraud?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 02:42:57 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 05, 2017, 10:29:38 pmYour words, not mine.QuoteYour definition of "proper accountable" apparently includes disclosure of sensitive personally identifiable information unrelated to the transaction. My definition does not.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personally_identifiable_information