good brand for hard screwdriver bits - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:01:23 pm
content: I know all the 'hardware store' brands (dewalt, etc) are all made in china using crap steel, these days.not sure if the german brands like wera and wiha are all that much better. my guess is that they are not and just charge a lot more. I do have some wera handle screwdrivers and they are great, but wondering if the bit style stuff is any good? even bosch is made in china, now, so that seems a non-starter to me.it would be great to see some kind of sorted list with the best (likely expensive) brands listed first, going down to the crap brands that are to be avoided. anyone feel like starting such a sorted list? I'd like to invest in a GOOD set of driver bits (ph00 thru ph2, plus the other typical bits) once, if possible, rather than re-buying over and over.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:04:35 pm
content: To make matters worse it also depends on where you buy it. Shops which compete on price (like the DIY home improvement stores) usually carry A-brand tools with lesser quality.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:22:00 pm
content: Witte says they are made in Germany and the normal bits (~60 HRC, not the ones with the gold paint) are cheap as chips.PS. any decent drill and a good stuck screw can still destroy them and they will fail eventually. These are disposable items regardless of where the steel comes from.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:32:41 pm
content: I find it to be luck-based. I buy tools that look decent, and then if they also last, then they last. If not, so be it.One of my best set of screwdrivers if from Home Depot, but when I realized that and went back to buy some more, they have already discontinued it.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:35:52 pm
content: Hard bits are rapidly becoming rarer - they're mostly used with power tools and especially impact drivers. Shattering hardened bits every 20 screws is boring.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:55:58 pm
content: I have WIHA brand TX4 and TX6 bits and they have lasted well. No name China bits only last 5-10 screws.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 07:13:08 pm
content: You can bust any of them but probably Apex have been around longer than most and make good stuff.I first bought their impact sockets ~40 years back and still have them.http://www.apex-tools.com/

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 01:08:24 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 03, 2018, 06:35:52 pmI have a couple of screwdrivers which use standard 1/4" hex bits which are available in all kinds of ends and replaceable. I have not tried it yet but the impact driver 1/4" hex bits might be tougher and they are cheap enough.What I really want a screwdriver which uses 1/4" hex bits that has an actual collet to hold the bit tightly instead of just using a magnet.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 01:50:36 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on March 04, 2018, 01:08:24 amI've got an SK 73514 that I've had for eons and it's had all manner of use for 40 years. Just checked online in a generic search for SK and found a pic of mine:You can still buy them after 4 decades amazingly.https://www.centurytool.net/73514_SK_Hand_Tool_4_MAG_SCWDR_4_Bits_p/skt73514.htmMines been to hell and back in all that time and with the grip style they have I would heartily recommend them for the excellent grip they offer. The magnet is still good and strong.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 02:09:37 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 04, 2018, 01:50:36 amThat is basically what I have now. The problem is that only having a magnet lets the bit wobble too much which is especially annoying if a longer impact type of bit is used. Some impact drivers use a mechanical collet assembly to hold the bit by the depression at the end but I have not seen any screwdrivers which do this.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 02:13:15 am
content: Hi,You might want to visit a Snap-on tool truck. I have had good success with their ACR Philips and Pozidrive bits. They have grooves in them that stop cam-out:Make sure you get pozidrive and Philips bits.Snap-on is normally expensive, but these bits are quite reasonable.I also like Wera screwdrivers.Look for S2 steel alloy. It is generally considered to be the best for screw drivers and hex keys. It has to be machined accurately and heat treated properly.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 02:32:04 am
content: I bought a set of gunsmithing screw drivers from Brownells in Montana and I use them for things that I care about the finish. Ihollow grindmy on bits on a milling machine when I need a special size. I hold the bit in a collet in a rotating and indexed collet holder and lock it in a vice and I grind the bit with a rotating grinding stone held in the spindle.Take a close look at how well your SD bit fits the screw. If it's a poor fit get a different SD. Any SD with a tapered bit is going to try to force the bit out of the screw when you use it and that will frequently damage the screw and the surrounding surface. The BEST bits are hollow ground so that they wedge themselves into the socket instead of out of it. Bit that are completely straight will usually work ok but not if you really care about messing up the screw or if the screw is very tight.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 02:39:23 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 04, 2018, 02:32:04 amFlat bits. Very amusing. Is it still the 1800s somewhere?

author: chipss
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 07:55:39 pm
content: Wiha!

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 07:59:04 pm
content: Has anyone tried this set?https://www.banggood.com/XIAOMI-Wiha-25-in-1-Screwdrivers-Kits-With-24pcs-S2-Steel-Screw-Bits-and-Aluminium-Alloy-Screwdriver-p-1187158.html

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 08:03:21 pm
content: Search for "WERA extra hart"They are made in Germany and really reliable and good.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 09:21:20 pm
content: Another vote for Wera. I've standardised on their equipment. It's way above everything else I've tried including Wiha.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 09:49:41 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 03, 2018, 06:01:23 pmStuff can be made really poorly in China, but also really well; unfortunately it's not always easy to tell.Perhaps the best advice would be to find out what tradesmen swear by?At work I have experience with Snap On and Wiha bits. The anti cam out ridges on the Snap On are a nice feature, but a good fitting bit without them will do just fine.Currently I'm using Wiha bits, and even the standard version has a good fit and lifetime. Wiha doesn't make a secret of their manufacturing locations: Germany, Poland and Vietnam.Other brands that I work with and trust (but no experience with their bits) are Gedore, Stahlwille, PB Swisstools and Wera.For tough bits I would be looking at those made for impact drivers.

author: pfrcom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 02:04:34 am
content: Quote from: plazma on March 04, 2018, 07:59:04 pmLove mine, although I haven't put any pressure on it yet

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 02:26:29 am
content: The Wera bit holding screwdrivers which can be used with power blade are probably what I was looking for.http://products.wera.de/en/kraftform_kompakt_bitholding_screwdrivers_and_adaptors.htmlWiha has something similar on one of their screwdrivers:https://www.wihatools.com/wiha-centrofix-1-4-power-blade-handleEither should work with inexpensive hardened 1/4" hex drive bits intended for impact applications without being lose like with a magnetic bit holder.

author: ChuckDarwin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 05:38:33 am
content: Quote from: plazma on March 04, 2018, 07:59:04 pmI keep a set in my field bag for small stuff. They work well, tips stay snug in the handle unless the device head is really grabby; and they pack up nicely. I had to borrow two special bits from another set to complete mine. A socket for D-shell nuts would be nice. The bit gives you about 15mm of depth onto a recess, or if you can get the neck of the tool in, about 40mm of length. Maybe an extension in the next version. Moderate usage and haven't damaged any bits yet.Slowly moving most hand tools way from old xcelite to wiha and wera

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 08:01:55 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on March 04, 2018, 01:08:24 amhttps://www.mcmaster.com/#8343A43Of course the retention mechanism adds considerably to the diameter of the working end, which could be problematic. I have an extension I use in my impact driver that has a retaining ring inside the bit socket, so it's no bigger than a typical extension but holds the bit very securely (sometimes requiring pliers to remove it). I think it's the same style as the extension inthis kit, but I bought it separately. I was actually looking to get a screwdriver handle likethis, so I could use thinner high-retention extensions or even long insert bits, but I haven't found just the handle for a reasonable price in the US.For good quality bits, I've generally gone to McMaster--you never really know what brand you're going to get, but they're always high quality. For Torx bits, the ones that are sold at hardware stores alongside the fancy construction screws (GRK, Spax brands for instance) are very good and often color-coded.

author: hli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 08:37:38 pm
content: I have Wiha bits, both in Pozidrive and Philips, for more than ten years, and they are nearly as new. These were the standard ones, nothing special hardened. But then I also take care of selecting the right bit for the screw, so that they fit properly. Nothing kills bits faster than when they loose grip and you don't stop.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 09:07:17 pm
content: I have (or had) both Wiha and Wera. Both are good, but I'd give Wiha an adventage. Seem more resilient to torture.Positively surprised by this one, I bought a year ago:https://www.wiha.com/en-int/produkte/multitools/screwdriver-with-bit-magazine-magnetic-assorted-with-8-bits-in-blister-pack-1-4-33007.htmlAlmost good as new and became my first choice...My general rules:Pliers - Knipexbits, screwdrivers - WihaL or T allen keys - Bondhus (somehow Bondhus makes them indestructible and very precise, they are kings of allen (hex) keys, and cheap...)

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 10:04:41 pm
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on March 05, 2018, 09:07:17 pmI have a few Bondhus ball head TORX drivers. I got them for a piece of equipment that we no longer have. 7 years of continuous use and just some of the black finish worn off of the ball head. They now reside in my tool chest.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 01:59:18 am
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on March 04, 2018, 02:13:15 amEven better: move to Torx screws. Philips and Pozidrive suck really bad compared to Torx.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 03:53:38 am
content: PB Swiss, Wiha, Wera, ... heck, even the professional Bosch ones are good (not the Bosch consumer assortments).

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 08:58:04 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 06, 2018, 01:59:18 amI often hear this from people around me, but when the Pozidriv bit and screw fit nicely together, I can get away with starting a screw in wood one handed with a powertool and without predrilling. I find it's not that easy to do the same with Torx screws, most of the time I need two hands to get those started. I think it's the taper on the Pozidriv screws that tends to keep the screw centered and snug in the head. Torx doesn't have that taper and feels kind of loose (and no, I didn't go one size of bit under).Why most people don't like Pozidriv (or Phillips) is the tendency of the bit to cam out. But when I ask, I find most people complaining to me give me a dumbfounded look, "there's more than one type of crosshead???".Yeah, wrong screwdriver...Once started, I would agree that Torx outperforms Pozidriv, especially when screws need to be tight. Less chance of a cam out and a damaged workpiece.BTW, it's Phillips, not Philips and Pozidriv, not Pozidrive.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 09:00:24 pm
content: Torx is great for machine screws, it's not good at keeping aligned for starting self tappers without pressure with shallow heads - this means your average countersunk woodscrew.Also, as far as more than one type goes.. Frearson, Phillips, Phillips II, JIS, Pozidriv, Supadriv, Pozisquare (my favourite of the lot).. I'm sure I've managed to forget a couple.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 09:49:51 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 06, 2018, 09:00:24 pmI have not noticed any difference with woodscrews. Pozidriv, Phillips and Torx equally suck to drive into a hard surface. Then again I only buy professional grade screws.The advantage of Torx is that you don't have to hold the bit perfectly straight while pushing down and the head never ever gets damaged because Torx simply cannot cam out.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 09:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 06, 2018, 09:49:51 pmPerhaps you're using the wrong screws.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 11:30:01 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on March 06, 2018, 08:58:04 pmI thing at least 90% don't know or bother to tell the difference between the two. I don't care except when they borrow my screwdrivers... grr...

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 04:47:44 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 06, 2018, 01:59:18 am+1Think i'm gonna try the Wiha someday. I was a bit dissapointed by the Wera standard screwdriver.

author: lavardera
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 05:22:57 am
content: PB Swiss makes a very high quality screwdriver, and also makes driver bits with the same level of quality. You can get individual bits or sets.https://www.pbswisstools.com/en/tools/quality-hand-tools/interchangeable-handlesblades-and-precisionbits/all-products/?no_cache=1&tx_pbstproduct_product[]=82,84

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 06:31:56 am
content: PB Swiss Tools indeed make very good screwdrivers, so it stands to reason that their bits will be of the same high quality.One gripe I have with the clear handled screwdrivers by PB Swiss Tools is the use of a substance called cellulose acetate butyrate. When they get older, the plastic starts to emit small quantities of that substance which makes them smell like vomit.

author: lavardera
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 01:31:55 pm
content: Only their least expensive driver lines have the acetate handles. They scent those handles with vanilla to overcome this, and so your toolbox will smell like Swiss chocolate.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2018, 11:59:21 pm
content: Quote from: chipss on March 04, 2018, 07:55:39 pmIf I recall correctly bits for Wiha Ultra Driver are made in Vietnam.Wiha, Wera now outsource some of their screwdriver and some other things to Czech Republic, Slovakia and maybe Hungary. So, yes, checking Country of Origin (COO) is now important.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 12:11:55 am
content: The one thing missing in this thread are the Japanese tools.Vessel anyone?Industrial bits:http://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/bit/Construction bits:http://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/bit2/

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 11:11:38 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on March 10, 2018, 11:59:21 pmFunny how people assume that the country of origin tells you all there is to know about quality, but often, it doesn't.Yes, China is known for cheaply and sloppily made stuff, I'm the first to admit that, but I have also seen stuff that they made very well and if you were told it was made in Germany, you'd simply believe it.I recently bought some kitchen knives that were "made in Germany" but the quality was such that I wouldn't buy them again. So much for "made in Germany".The "made in ..." label only tells part of the story anyway. If the different parts of a product were produced in China and assembled in e.g. Germany, it might actually say "made in Germany" on the label.The company I work for does the same with some products that are made in Eastern Europe and assembled into the final product and tested over here. That extra work we do legally allows us to put "made in the Netherlands" on it, even though the bulk of the work was done elsewhere.Nowadays, I prefer a well made product from anywhere in the world over a shoddily made and overpriced domestic one. So, if those Vietnamese made Wiha bits outperform locally made bits, I'll stick with the Wiha bits. If they disappoint me, I'll find something else. The Wiha bits I have now do say "made in Germany"... but yeah, are they really???

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 09:12:47 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on March 11, 2018, 11:11:38 amIf you watch Antique Road Show, you would have learned that in 1920s Germany exported to US a lot of cheap mass produced stuff. So. Yes, Made in Germany does not mean first rate product every time.I already broke Vietnamese 3mm slot bit from my Wiha Ultra Driver. However, to be fair, I broke it while modifying work done by someone else and that a$$hole just tighten the eF out the terminal screws, I am not sure any bit would have survived that.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 06:39:49 am
content: Well, even the best bit breaks when subjected to more force than it can handle. I'm not only thinking of a single time but also the effects of repeated smaller overloads.After thousands of screws, I had the tip of a Snap On bit suddenly shear off without any advance warning.It really wouldn't be fair to compare Germany today with what it was nearly 100 years ago, between the two world wars that country was in a bad shape, now it's among the richest in the world.But I don't think the point of this thread is to find the absolute best bits out there, but the ones with the best price to quality ratio.