£400 - £450 to spend on first thermal camera - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2022, 09:25:55 pm
content: Hi all, another how long is a piece of string question.My wife has agreed to buy me a thermal camera for Xmas.So many to choose from, I don’t want to spend £400 on a piece of rubbish.Main use will be using in electronics, but I also want to check my house for cold spots etc.Don’t want to buy from Aliexpress as wife wants to wrap it for me for Xmas day (doesn’t leave much time)I have iPad Pro which has a usb c socket and iPhone X with a lightning socket, also happy to get a hand held.Need to order in about 48 hrs (and from uk)Any suggestions please?Thanks

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2022, 10:09:54 pm
content: You can look if someone will have the following models:GuideIR PC210Hikmicro Pocket2 / B20 (probably a bit over budget)Infiray C200 / C200 Pro / C210UNI-T UTi260BThe problem is, that you are a bit late - there are good cameras out there for this price-range but not all are avialable from UK sellers. For the price you want you can have lower models with 160x120Pixels from Hikmicro (B1L) or Flir (C3-x) with even lower resolution.But resolution is important - see the image I attacked...So you should look that you have a resolution of 256x192 pixels. But be aware that some sellers list there cameras with 320x240 resolution but they mean the screen resolution and not the resolution of the IR detector! So read the listings twice or ask here to be sure!

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2022, 10:20:07 pm
content: Amazon has the TOPDON TC001 in stock. It is as far as I can tell the same as the Infiray C200?"256x192, 40mk Heat Sensitivity, Testing Range -20℃-550℃, 0.1℃ Test Precision"https://amzn.to/3W6sSY5Here are a few screenshots I took.It is not a great close up (the image attached after the 2nd dog one is an 80mm MVME drive at about 5cm distance) but anything from 10cm is fine. The TC001 can come with a close-up lens.Not yet tested it on my PC.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2022, 10:32:48 pm
content: I am personally no friend of the phone-accessory thermal imagers. One accidential bump and you damage camera and the phone!I found some on amazon:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Rechargeable-Temperature-Real-time-Transmission/dp/B0BJKZVLHFhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Rechargeable-Industrial-Thermographic-Resolution-20%C2%B0C-550%C2%B0C/dp/B0BJKWW3YQYou can read my review of the PC210 here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-review/For electronics work you need a 50.8mm ZnSe lens and a 3D-printed adapter like that one:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-thermal-camera-anyone-familiar-with/msg4111042/#msg4111042

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2022, 11:23:38 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 18, 2022, 10:09:54 pmThe conversation went something like this.Me “is £400 to £450 too much for my Xmas present, I really want a thermal camera”Wife "is a bit much really”Roll on to the day before yesterday when son phones (we’re going to his for new year)Son “don’t suppose you have a thermal camera, need to check my house insulation…”Me “no but you can rent them for about £100 for 24hrs, I was going to buy one…Wife “no point him spending a quarter of the price just for 24 hrs, you might as well have one for Christmas”Son lives approx 200 miles away and due to endless roadworks, is a good 5hr plus drive away, hence would be nice to have it before we go

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2022, 11:56:21 pm
content: I can get the Hikmicro B10, comparing it to the B20, it seems very similar without wireless?

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 11:46:51 am
content: B10 is a good choice - you can print this cluseup-lens holder:https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5339476And then just add this lens:https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004441211317.html?...The attached thermal images are images taken with a B20 / Pocket2. The big ones are from a Pocket2 with the closeup-lens... Pocket2 has basically the same resolution as B20/B10 but the camera upscale images more!Hikmicro has also by far the best software from all the chineese brands. So you will be able to do later analysis! But keep in mind you should also study a bit - thermographing a house is not that easy! You have to prepare the home for the inspection and you have to pay attention to weather and other factors. If not you may get wrong indications! So maybe get yourself a book or some other form of beginner training to understand what you are doing...The tools may be cheap today but it's no "point and shoot camera". You have to know the basics and the physics in the background. For short-detection in electronics it's a lot easier. There it's basically a point and shoot solution. You just need to check if you have a reflection or a real hot spot!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 03:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 19, 2022, 11:46:51 amif i have a good excuse to dismiss my Seek Thermal Compact today, UNI-T UTi260E looks tempting, it has its own macro adapter (sold separately) UT-Z003, no need to diy print... a little step up (320x240) is UTI320E compatible with UT-Z003, but its already a bit more than OP budget, how about upping a bit the budget and save the xmas gift paper cost? why dont just OP buy from aliexpress (if not available locally), when it arrives, OP handover to wife with eyes closed for xmas gift packing, just... just pretend he havent seen it or as it never happened, when xmas comes... SURPRISE!!!!!

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 03:48:46 pm
content: Thanks, ordered the B10 30 secs after reading markb1980 this morning, couldn’t remember password for eevblog on my phone so couldn’t reply until now.Will be here Friday and I have a 3D printer so getting excited

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 08:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 19, 2022, 03:48:46 pmI think you made a pretty good choice!BTW, Hikmicro also sells a Macro lens. You can't record videos without WiFi but that doesn't have to be the main focus of a thermal camera. After readingthis threadabout the guide and since some UniT devices often have screen problems (stains, etc.) I'm wondering how these devices can even be suggested as a selection.In the end I only came up with two camera manufacturers that can be recommended in terms of quality (price conscious) today:- Hikmicro- InfirayThere are pros and cons to each:- Hikmicro has a very good manufacturing quality - look at various teardowns here you can see the internal build of the devices.- Infiray has a much sharper image because of their pic post-process. But they have no manual level & span to adjust on their cameras.- Hikmicro has PC software to analyze the photos.- Infiray does not have this.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 09:31:03 pm
content: Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 08:35:35 pmwhere in that thread or in this forum mentioning UTi260E or 320E got screen problem? here is review of other unit, i dont see screen problem...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/uni-t-uni690b/

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 10:18:03 pm
content: Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 08:35:35 pmA UTi260B and UTi690B is a Infiray C200 in a different housing ;-)Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 08:35:35 pmI would consider also Guide!Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 08:35:35 pmYes but the latest update from Hikmicro improve image quality quite a bit! So they are not that soft anymore and quite close to Infiray / Guide...Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 08:35:35 pmNope - Infiray has also a analysis software:https://www.infiray.com/c200h-handheld-accurate-thermographic-camera/You can even find the newer V1.1.5 or 1.1.6 on some Google-Drive shares. I am not sure why they hide it but it's a pain in the butt to find the downloads!

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 10:59:54 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 19, 2022, 10:18:03 pmThat's right at least the sensor is in there. But here was a teardown once and it didn't look particularly confidence-inspiring:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/uti220a-pro(uti260b)-disassembly/msg3800456/#msg3800456Unlike Hikmicro (Hikvision):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/hikvision-ds-2tp31-series-thermal-camera-teardown-307840/msg3942907/#msg3942907Looks like day and night to me. And of course there's the hackneyed phrase: you get what you pay for.Quote from: markb1980 on December 19, 2022, 10:18:03 pmMaybe he had a bad model but what I saw here aboutGuidedidn't impress me that much:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-mobir-2s-(autofocus)-thermal-camera-for-android/Quote from: markb1980 on December 19, 2022, 10:18:03 pmAh okay. I did not know that! Didn't Fraser also mention in his P2 Pro review thread recently that they don't have such software?However this is only for Android if I understand that correctly? I find it difficult to carry out complex tasks only on a tablet. Maybe we'll see more development there including a Windows PC/Mac software. With Infiray I have the feeling that they are more limited to the consumer business!?

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2022, 11:23:50 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 19, 2022, 09:31:03 pmIt wasn't in my mentioned thread but some times ago there were several user having problems with faulty Uni-T devices. Some had bright spots on the screen either immediately upon arrival or after a few days that didn't go away. The experienced users speculated that it could have been dust on the lens (inside) that fell off during transport. Since the devices are calibrated beforehand this (dust-)spot seems to have been calibrated as well which led to these devices no longer displaying correctly.Examples:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/is-my-thermal-imager-defective/msg3712390/#msg3712390https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/uni-t-uti260b/msg3356258/#msg3356258This happened several times about a year ago. Unfortunately I can't find more relevant threads via search function anymore (difficult to find the right keywords).Coupled withthis threaddoes not speak particularly for good quality. I think the devices are cheap so it's understandable that you have to make compromises. But the way it is presented to me here is an absoluteno-go.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 11:55:52 am
content: Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 10:59:54 pmYou can't judge a brand based on one product - I know a few PC210 users and I have found a bug myself in the PC210 firmware but still - the brand is a good choice in therms of price to performance. I would feel 10x more confident writing an report with the guide software than with infirays application which alter dates, etc.Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 10:59:54 pmThe P2 Pro is not supported by their analysis software - don't ask me why! I have asked them myself why they use other file-formats for there phone- and handheld-imagers...Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 10:59:54 pmThere is a P2 Pro also for iOS with a lightining jack. It's just nor marketed offensivly - some stuff what Infiray does makes no sence to me at all.Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 19, 2022, 10:59:54 pmI am in the IT industry since almost 20 years - there is not one major IT brand where I have not expirienced this at least once...If to much RMAs are filed, they will react because it will hurt there eranings. So I see in Guide some issues, in Infiray and even in Hikmicro - I had the chance to try out some of there products and I found also some potential issues...I know professional thermographers who had some similiar problems with Flir also. I started a while ago to judge things based on models and model-revision rather then brands! Just my 50 cents

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 04:31:45 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 20, 2022, 11:55:52 amI would normally agree with you there. I don't think brand fanboys are particularly good.What is emerging, however, is that those responsible for certain brands have an overall way of dealing with them. And on this basis I allow myself my (personal) assessments, underlined by testimonials from other users.That you also find problems with Hikmicro or Infiray, yes even with Flir (incredible), is not surprising. Especially since a lot of companies are just under construction here as far as their thermal camera division is concerned.On one side you say Guide has good products (which is not true for their entire product range) but write elsewhere that they hardly react to criticism. I can therefore not fully understand a recommendation for their products.Everyone has a specific field of activity for their camera. But overall it doesn't do anyone any good if the build quality of the product is poor (by objective standards) or if certain features are generally absent - but which can be considered minimum standards in a thermal camera capable of temperature measurements.I have the impression that it might not be that important to you that you don't pay attention to such things. Very many people do not do this and are blinded by the price. But if more people had certain standards for the products they buy then there wouldn't be so many junk products in this world - and also not so much junk hiding behind "high-gloss" looking products to hide the underlying lack of quality control or generally inferior inside quality of used material.Just my 55 cents.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 09:09:32 pm
content: okay, I found something rather odd and it kinda fits the theme of this thread.a thermal imager strictly meant for observation, the description also mentioned it can't record photo, video or measure temperatures.Northpoint(seems to normally sell lightning fixtures) AKR-01 sold as open box on ebay for just below 500€https://www.ebay.com/itm/225083807494(more on amazon or their own website). Supposedly was a product for ALDI a few years ago at twice and four times the price.it's a 17µm QVGA+ sensor (384x288) running at 50Hz, they claim it's a French ASi sensor (means Ulis/lynred) and a 19mm f/1.0 lens; even if you ignore the odd product, that seems like a good offer to get this kinda core and a lens - if it isn't a scam...

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 11:02:59 pm
content: Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 20, 2022, 04:31:45 pmIf I would just recommend brands which react to my input I could not recommend any. Some accept something of the input and some don't. It's good when a company listens to there clients but you can't call Microsoft, Flir, Hikmicro or HP and request features and think they will do it.But that is no reason to recommend / not recommend a brand - even the bug which I found makes a PC210 not worster because I think that most people would not use a PC210 for some things where this would become important. So I recommend that what gives most people a good price to performance ratio. This is why I would rather recommend a PC210 then a Flir C5 for almost all! For serious thermography applications I would not recommend the PC210 but also no B20, C5 nor a C200 or some other entry level camera. For other applications each of that cameras would do the job and all mentioned models would give you a better price to performance ratio then a C5.Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 20, 2022, 04:31:45 pmI agree but I can just speak for me - I suck in electronics and it's basically "black magick" to me that some ununderstandable mix of "differnetly colored and shaped pieces" can work together and produce images...I use thermal cameras beacause I would hardly be able to find a short without them. Give me an hex-editor or a disassembler/debugger or some hacking-tools and I can make wonders with that but I could hardly design a circuit to make a LED flush without an programmable Arduino. I have read multiple books and I have watched so many videos on youtube and I have never expirienced in my live something that was so hard to understand for me then electronics. But that is another story...As long as not everybody in the world is skilled in electronics all companies can sell whatever they want because 99% of the world population will not understand if they have a propper tool or a fire hazzard in the hand.I don't think many of the people testing DSLR-cameras, graphics-cards or mobile-phones do understand the electronics-part behind the product. I judge a tool based on the results which the tool produce for me. You may understand how the cameras are build and you may see design issues. I just know what the tool can do and most people will also just care about that.Look just at the initial question - someone want to get a cheap 400-450 GBP camera and then just 2 days after ownling that thing he want to do some home-inspections (no offense). A propper tool for that would cost 10x this price and a propper training to do that right would cost 5x the budget and it would take multiple days and even after that you would need to practise and learn a lot.I use thermography since the TG165 came out and I still have images which I discuss with more skilled people. I have spend many hours and trained myself, i have read multiple books and I have spend countless hours discussing thermal images, analysing work of others, etc.Most people who buy a entery level camera don't even have the drive to learn the tool propperly - just look at so many youtube-videos. Lately I have seen a german one - the guy was thermographing a shiny metal surface and wondering why a cold metal plate show some heat.Is nice that some people like you can understand the technology behind it and that you can even have a look at the way it's build. When I buy a drill i don't care how it's build as long as it don't break down very fast and it has enough power for the jobs I need I am happy with the tool. But I am aware when I buy a cheaper brand that somehow they have to compromise and save some money. I am personally fine with that as long as the tool gives me the results I am looking for.Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 20, 2022, 04:31:45 pmI totally agree - but then we have a issue. A Infiray C210 don't allow me to measure the temp. of the sky so I have no chance to check the RAT and as far as I reacall I can't even set lower RAT as -20°C. So all outside-thermography with a clear sky would not work. A PC210 seems to ignore the RAT totally and a Hikmicro is very grainy when you have a lower span then 5°C... The Phone-App of Flir do not allow to set a manual emisivity, etc.So what is the solution? Everyone should buy a calibrated Exx- or T-series Flir?In an ideal world we would all have ideal tools but in our reality we have often to deal with limitations or issues and that oftern also when using high-end tools. I am confident I can solve many applications with the cameras I recommend and I have used them all at least for a while and I have even used them professionally in some cases. So I have even earned a multiple of that what i sepnd on the tool. So I am pretty confident someone else can do the same.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 01:25:44 pm
content: As the B20 is available for delivery tomorrow with a 7% voucher code on Amazon, making it only only £48 more than the B10, I’ve cancelled the B10 and gone for the B20 instead

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 02:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 20, 2022, 11:02:59 pmNo offence taken. I really want it for electronics. Sons house has a badly converted attic room, or to put it another way, the surveyor said it can’t be used as a room as it breaks all kinds of building regs.Basically years ago, previous owners boarded over the floor, boarded the underside of the roof, had a couple of velux windows put in, stupidly steep stairs and electric points etc. Stupidly hot in summer, like an igloo in the winter.I don’t think there’s any insulation in the attic at all, hoping to be able to tell with this camera.Appreciate it isn’t point and click and there’s a big learning curve, just hoping to spot a few cold spots, plus it was a great excuse to buy oneEnded up spending £558, I see it a bit like my electronics gear. My Rigol DS1054Z cost around the £400 mark, but for my hobby use it’s perfectly fine. I know £400 is cheap compared to a professional oscilloscope, likewise I know £558 is cheap for a thermal camera, but for my use, it’s probably a little overkillHowever, £400 on an oscilloscope and £558 on a thermal camera, as far as my lovely wife is concerned, they cost the earth.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 02:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 21, 2022, 02:09:07 pmThell him to heat up the house to 24-26°C for 2 days and he should switch off all heaters 4-6h before you arrive.That will give the house a good chance to get also the walls really warm and when it cools down you should see the heat exchange quite clear.You still need to interpret the thermal images. Take the attached image - the dot is a ventilation pipe but the long lines which appear hot are no thermal bridges but drip edges. There was no wind for a longer period and the warmer air got trapped there. This is just one example where you have to factor in geometry of a building, weather and many other things to interpret the image correctly. You should also pay attention to the weather. Wind can cool down and hide heat loss on the outside thermograms.When I look at the same wall from inside it's perfectly fine - so you have to check it from outside and inside and then compare what you see and think critically about the displayed patterns. Thermography may just give you a indication and there is sometimes still a need to open the walls and have a look at what materials are used. Thermal imaging may just point out areas of interest.You also need to understand what temperature differences are OK and which are problematic. So maybe have a look at non problematic buildings first and then compare then to what you see in your sons house... Pay also attention to the building materials and only compare apples with apples not apples with peaches!

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 11:43:45 am
content: Having a lot of fun with it, but as you say, a huge learning curve.Currently watching a ton of YouTube vids to help

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 11:16:52 pm
content: If you want to discuss images just post them and we can talk about or post them into my facebook group...

author: gamerpaddy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 05:29:21 am
content: Quote from: Vipitis on December 20, 2022, 09:09:32 pmtheres one for half the price from a secondhand german seller. but it seems to be not working (no video signal from the product pictures). maybe a good candidate for a teardown / repair attempt.really curious whats inside and if its possible to repurpose it, but not too keen on spending 250 bucks on a unsafe bet.https://www.ebay.de/itm/125605852633

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:25:12 pm
content: I also saw that offer, and they even allow you to return it. But perhaps you can ask the seller if it's sold as it (without batteries or accessories) or as defective. It sounds like a good offer nevertheless, since you will end up with a QVGA 17μm ULIS core and the 19mm lens. Even if the core isn't functional or you can't repurpose it. Will be a nice piece to learn from.I kinda decided not to buy it because I would rather have another VGA core. But if it's working as least as bad as my current cores (also ULIS sensors but larger pixels), it would be a nice lineup to compare.I might still buy it for the chance to having a camera with working digital out... so if anyone else has encouraging wordsE: asked the seller if it's defective or untested

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:47:28 pm
content: Hmmm, you can buy that unit ‘opened box’ from Northpoint for 500 Euros.https://northpoint-shop.de/B-Ware-Northpoint-Waermebildgeraet-AKIR-01-Waermebildkamera-mit-Hot-Tracking-Funktion-im-praktischen-TragekofferHalf price for a used and potentially faulty unit with no warranty sounds like a less than great deal to me. Anyone thinking of buying that eBay unit should gain more information about its condition and whether it is, or is not, sold as “working as a thermal camera”. Beware any comments like “it turns on” as that basically means the LCD monitor comes on. If returns are accepted, that is a sign of a decent seller, but if it turns out to be faulty, you have to decide whether it can be economically repaired or should be returned for a refund.As to whether the Northpoint camera is any good…. No idea as I have not tested it. I personally dislike the cheap LCD monitor that is tacked on the rear of the camera module…. It looks cheap and nasty ! Due diligence recommended here.There is a complete kit for 420 Euro on eBay being sold by Northpoint themselves. This is not any sort of recommendation of the unit though !https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225083807494Fraser

author: gamerpaddy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 05:06:27 pm
content: after long back and forth, i bought it.. the "broken" one.will post a followup once it arrives in a new thread.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 10:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 28, 2022, 11:16:52 pmThanksI’m at my sons house, heating on full, can’t get living room to go above 21 c.Will post pics and thermal images in a couple of days (mind you, not 100% sure of the settings to use)Thanks

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 10:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 21, 2022, 02:34:50 pmHeatings been on for 48 hrs (midday tomorrow) at 24c.Living room wouldn’t reach 24c, moved thermostat to room he works from, and that did reach it.Turning heating off at midday tomorrow and taking readings approx 4 hrs later.Any advice on the thermal camera settings?Will post pics tomorrowThanks

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 07:00:02 am
content: Set the emissivity to 0.95 and all other things can be adjusted in the software. I rather play with level and span in software then on the camera. You want to know the actual temp. and the rel. humidity in the rooms so that you can calculate the dew-point. And you want to be 4°C above the dew point with the coolest sports.Also compare what you see inside and what you see outside. A thermal bridge would be visible from both sides. Other things not. So comparing indoor and outdoor thermograms allow you a better indication whats going on - at least you can confirm or rule out certain things.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 07:15:26 pm
content: Right, I’ve taken a lot of pics, I know I’ve got a lot to learn, I’ll post some here.Inside house temperature was 21.5 , don’t know the humidity.Kitchen:First 3 pics are of the window from inside4th pic is the door to the backyard, also inside5th, 6th and 7th pic are the window from outside8 & 9 are the door from outsideEdit, it hasn’t posted in the order I mentioned above

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 07:19:33 pm
content: Main room my son wants insulated as he works from home in this room,Ceiling, window (Outside as well as in)

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 07:21:39 pm
content: Sons bedroom window

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 07:32:02 pm
content: The main problem with his house, the attic, previous owners have converted it, but it’s not allowed to be used as a habitual room due to the many building code refs it fails on (like the stupidly steep stairs)I think, years ago someone simply laid boards over floor joists and plaster board over the roof joists.A few pics to show what it looks like, a pic of the window, the completely blurred thermal is me looking at the roof (plasterboard from inside attic) and the other thermal with the darker square at the top right, is me in the attic, taking pic of the floor.I couldn’t get any good pics of the roof from inside.Anyway, these are some of my first pics, I obviously have a lot to learn,I did like the pic I’ve added from his bathroom

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 08:59:49 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on January 04, 2023, 07:32:02 pmWhy is this a problem? Step stairs aside who cares if you use it or not? Call it an overhead storage if anyone formally asks.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 11:56:40 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on January 04, 2023, 07:21:39 pmHere you can see how something is not really great with the windows. Inside you get cols sports arround 15°C which is OK-ish in therms os dew point. The dew point qould be at 22°C room temp. an 50% RH aprox. 11°C.So he is far enogh away to avoid trobles with mold but you see from outside very well how your room temp. is leaking out. Each window seem to have a warmer frame... So maybe an issue with the installation of the windows or with the isolation. Here it would be important to know the weather conditions. If it was a bit windy that would cool the leaks down and we would need to estimage a much stonger heat loss. If there was no wind which alters the appearance the heat-loss is smaller.BTW - you shoud at least have one overview shot and then the details! It's a bit difficult to understand how the single details fit together. You have not that much resolution but you can still see enogh! Seeing the full picture would be good for the analysis and the details would help to overcome the lower resolution...

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pm
content: Thanks, it was raining most of the day with a bit of a wind.Will try to take some better images with an overview shot.I’ve just been back in the attic, from the date on the velux windows, it was converted around 1992.There appears to be zero insulation.Attached is a crude drawing, the blue part being the attic room, the red parts are behind plasterboard/drywall hence can’t access.I just drilled a couple of holes in one of the sides (green mark on pic), so I could see the floor behind, zero insulation.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 06:55:45 pm
content: Sorry for being so thick, when you say “Overview pic” do you mean say a picture of the whole outside of the house, then sons window, likewise whole of sons wall with the window from inside, then window?Thsnks

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 09:25:28 pm
content: Yes exactly - when I see the whole wall or even the whole side of a building from outside I will maybe see patterns forming. The resolution is not that great that I would spot each small defect right away but I would get a overall image.That's why it is the best way to get an overview image and a few detail-thermograms from problematic areas.Often a pattern in the whole wall/side give you a better indication what's going on. But I am not an buildings expert. If you want I have some in my facebook group. If you post the images there you may get better hints then mine. Aleksandar and Francois had helped me also to diagnose the issue in my flat. I know the thermal side of the story but I lack the knowledge how buildings are made and the expirience in this field.