The EEVblog Lab Building Complex has SHIFTED - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 11:41:30 am
content: The building next door to the lab which shares the same underground carpark has "shifted" by 25mm, and there are now struts holding up the underground carpark on both levels, with the higher level having a giant crack in the slab along the axis of the strutsAnd above the two basement floors outside right above, a large stretch of all the pavers have shifted. Hard to see in the photo. Similar length to the basement cracking. They have dug up two sections to inspect the probable slab shift.Technically, not a problem that affects my building, yet, but they are joined at the hip.I would be surprised if all occupants of the building next door get told to leave. These has been a big spate of these in Sydney with apartment blocks.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 03:31:01 pm
content: Do you know why? Could it have been a small earthquake?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 05:12:19 pm
content: Going to guess the complex is around 10 to 15 years old, and this is the foundations settling, probably due to them either being originally piled and filled during construction. Then due to shifting rainfall and a dry period the ground dried out slightly, and the ground has shifted, or there has been steady watering of the grounds, making the ground compact down. There is a building complex near me that has had some settlement, the one side has settled down by around 40cm over 10 years, leaving a gap in the building between the two halves of the building.There was a point when the gap was big enough in the expansion gap to pass a person through, before the gap had a filler piece inserted in there.I would guess the same for this, with the bracing being there to prevent the edge crumbling with the load of the ground outside.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 10:06:09 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 29, 2021, 03:31:01 pmNo idea yet. All we know is it's moved.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 10:06:44 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 29, 2021, 05:12:19 pmI believe it's around 17 years old or so.Actually, that's my building. This one next door is a couple of years younger. The movement is in the expansion joint between the two buildings.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 10:35:37 pm
content: After seeing that condominium tower in Florida collapse recently this sort of thing would make me a bit nervous.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 11:04:28 pm
content: Did you rent the space or buy? The Mascot towers debacle, not to mention Opal, Cube etc has really opened my eyes to this stuff.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2021, 11:44:10 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 29, 2021, 10:35:37 pmOn the other hand with that disaster in recent memory I'd expect there to be increased caution around concrete buildings doing anything out of the ordinary.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 12:10:14 am
content: I’d be fairly relaxed unless it’s on landfill…Northwestern Sydney is mostly on good old Sydney sandstone, so it’ll take a good push.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 12:51:17 am
content: Quote from: John B on July 29, 2021, 11:04:28 pmI've owned it for the last 10 years.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 01:08:53 am
content: Well then, grab the caulking gun, she'll be right no wukkas.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 01:35:01 am
content: I suspect some assigned parking space owners are annoyed right now.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 01:40:22 am
content: Watch your insurance bill now !

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 02:15:40 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on July 30, 2021, 01:35:01 amOnce the lockdowns are over, yeah. Now, not really, the carpark is 90% deserted.Come to think of it, if I was paying rent in that building then yeah, I'd be immediately asking for a discount for unusable space.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 02:26:55 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on July 30, 2021, 12:10:14 amThat or, if the garage is several levels deep underground, the failure could come from a settlement there.The soil where I live is a weird clay and it becomes arenous during extreme drought. My house is located in a place where the bedrock is just a few meters below the top soil, but even still the house experiences immense shifts throughout the year.(the original builders never took advantage of that and used a concrete slab anyways... Oh well)

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 04:36:07 am
content: How much force can those struts exert? 10 tons each, maybe--at the most? I hope the builders didn't skimp on the steel.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 05:32:55 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on July 30, 2021, 04:36:07 amHydraulic jacks generally get used when we need to exert force. Manual screw jacks are generally used for support, not application of force. The shore jacks I see in the picture are probably in the 10-ton rating area, so good guess. Safety factors are usually about 2.5, so over 20 tons before direct failure. But you also have to worry about how much weight the floor can support before the jack punches through.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 06:02:08 am
content: Shoring up a parkade, would need a structural PE to signoff on that and it's right next a column and beam so I would be very cautious- it's either an idiot put the posts up or something more serious.The Miami FIU pedestrian bridge failure, one error was the engineers' assumption the end of the bridge would be butted up against the other portion. Think of two people leaning back to back, they support each other. But the other half of the bridge wasn't in place... so the end concrete member just shot out and the entire bridge failed.If your building design is assuming it can lean on the one next door, there will be troubles.The Miami Champlain Towers South condo failure, it's the usual corruption where the architect/engineer made some mistakes, adding a last minute penthouse, and the builder skimped on rebar and waterproofing. Add decades of saltwater, crooked building inspectors, cosmetic patching and repairs, and a condo board faced with nobody wanting to fork out the $9M+ repairs... and it collapsed.Concrete is not really fixable, I think Opal (and likely SEG Plaza) are testaments to the fact you are hooped if it breaks, and design errors cannot be "patched up".I would be concerned about the reasons for the 1" shift, if it's getting worse is the big issue tracked in the FIU lawsuits.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 06:19:50 am
content: Probably a good time to make sure all your off-site backups are current. Just in case you show up some morning and find out the building is condemned, not safe to enter for any reason.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2021, 07:20:11 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on July 30, 2021, 06:19:50 amDamn fine logic for buying a load of new TE, it's an offsite DR backup.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 04:54:40 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on July 30, 2021, 06:19:50 amMy NAS is backed up to the cloud, so technically all files accesible, but quite slow of course.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 04:55:45 am
content: Quote from: CJay on July 30, 2021, 07:20:11 amI have enough gear to equip several labs!I just can't set them up, and one storeage unit is in the same building.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2021, 05:04:51 pm
content: I would be more concerned with your property assets suddenly becoming a liability.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2021, 07:16:45 am
content: Quote from: Towger on July 31, 2021, 05:04:51 pmYeah, that's a potential concern.Although I'm in such a good location, it would be foolish to panic sell.Although if I was in that building next door and heard that BANG BANG BANG BANG, I might be contacting my realestate agent right about now.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2021, 09:06:47 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 29, 2021, 03:31:01 pmI think it was the music coming from those Hillsong ppl.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2021, 09:26:19 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2021, 04:55:45 amDon't get anymore test gear without first getting some more Acrow Jacks.Clearly the building was never designed to support that many multimeters, oscilloscopes and other gadgets.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2021, 09:47:48 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on August 01, 2021, 09:26:19 amI was wondering just that, if it was the weight of all the TE and dumpster dived stuff that'd caused it

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2021, 09:50:22 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on July 30, 2021, 02:26:55 amThere is soil on two sides of the basement carpark, the other two sides are open. it's not level land.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2021, 12:08:17 am
content: Important is to know is if it's getting worse. I would measure the gap, take pics and document it to know if they are continuing to grow or there is a remedy in place now.Either that, or take the position of complete ignorance.The FIU bridge collapse lawsuits were unreal but some learning there.After installation, the construction company observed the massive cracking.The fact that the cracks were known to be increasing in size, while FIGG engineers saying "it's all good", and the construction company took no action- made them liable.The Court ruled you must use "independent judgement" at all times regardless of your part in a project, you can't defer it.Just mentioning in case you are on the Board, they are getting sued across the yinyang in the Miami Condo collapse. You might have some hidden responsibility just because you've noticed it.The shoring is not really proper because you cannot put a highly concentrated point load on a concrete floor slab. It just cracks, a floor is to support cars not a multistory building. That's what pilings are for.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 04:19:07 am
content: Any update Dave? Just curious.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 04:41:25 am
content: Maybe not your blocks, but I remember in the 70s and 80s, there was a LOT of landfill going on in that area (domestic & garden rubbish, building waste etc).At the time, there was a lot discussed about ‘how long’ it would take for the sites to be stable.Nobody could agree.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 04:55:40 am
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on April 26, 2022, 04:19:07 amWorks are currently underway to patch it all up. They have cut slot either side of the join/crack. Removed tree roots etc.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 05:01:49 am
content: Measure the before and after floor angle.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 05:27:28 am
content: Ground level

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2022, 02:31:30 am
content: Ask your buildimg depertment fo their cut on what is happenikng.. it may contain info you dont posess.. Make sure you get a formal, written copy..

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2022, 05:34:51 am
content: in next "dumpster diving" episode : a whole building !

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2022, 06:26:05 am
content: Quote from: cdev on May 02, 2022, 02:31:30 amI do have the full engineering analysis document, haven't really analysed it yet.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2022, 11:42:54 pm
content: Be happy you're not in California.. Australia is one of the most stable seismic zones, so its one less cause of seismic instability...If you e ver fly over the state look out for the San Andreas Fault, which you can see as clear as day..The USGS has a web page called "do you feel it" (DYFI.html ) where people are encouraged to report if they feel an earthquake.. They have them all the time there, and when the ground shakes, things fall down. ouch.... Australia is relatively quiet, compared to many other places.. Check it out. As an ex Californian I have been through a lot of big earthquakes.. Loma Prieta, Eureka.. Eureka was just huge..New Zealand has big earthquakes, like the ones in Calif.---not Australia..https://earthquake.usgs.gov/data/dyfi/

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 12:00:24 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 02, 2022, 05:34:51 amNoooo.. lets not go there.. Its scary.. They condemn buildings for many kinds of damage.. Then if you get the big X on the door, you have to move..There are all sorts of weird phenomena like little uprisings of sand.. little sand volcanoes, sort of, its caused by liquefaction! There are also mysterious green/blue flashes in the sky.. I saw this but few people did.. Its only been recently now because oif all the cell phones that videos have emerged of this..If you see it, you wont forget it!! One theory is that its caused by piezoelectricity, but in truth we just dont know.. Whatever does it the voltages must be HUGE...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 01:42:34 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 26, 2022, 05:01:49 amDave Really would need a time-traveling car to go back in time to make the before measurement.Those kinds of reports can be pretty interesting when they contain information from the past.. In SF, I found out that my apartment building had in the past been part of a farm. It and its immediate neighbors straddled an area that had been occupied by a small stream..Which had gone down what is today 18th St. Which was covered up completely with houses.. That explained a lot. Why the basement filled up with water so fast!When it rained hard there was what rapidly became a huge deluge coming down the street, which would push cars around like toys..A huge volume of water would pour down from the hills around there.. It was several feet deep.. Maybe a half of a meter deep, and moving fast..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 06:13:31 am
content: Quote from: cdev on May 06, 2022, 01:42:34 amThat would have been cool.I did do this:

author: srb1954
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 06:42:19 am
content: Quote from: cdev on May 05, 2022, 11:42:54 pmAnd Japan, Chile, Indonesia ...All are on the edges of massive tectonic plates and suffer the consequences of the tremendous pressures built up by the relentless movement of those tectonic plates.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2022, 05:29:29 pm
content: I still have and use those anchors on my furniture, a habit I picked up in California, in the Bay Area. To keep my bookshelfs, monitors, computers, for example, from falling down in an earthquake.Maybe the shaking is associated with waves of motion from which one could extract angles, vectors? and then if you could do that in multiple places, it might tell you something?? Where the source of the energy was?Bay Area was in a real hotbed of faultlines.. Also other mysterious lines they have still not figured out. There are many many YT videos on this.. They are clearly prehistoric.. Maybe Lemuria? Mu?Really.. those are among the theories.. I am not talking about the demise of the trollies, that is another story.. Public Transit was actually better in the distant past (immediate aftermath of WWII) than it is now!I am talking about the mysterious rock walls.. Some people immediately blamed them on the Chinese.. since an admiral has sailed a fleet of huge wooden ships all around the world at one point, and everybody knows the Chinese built all sorts of walls, right? NOTThis is what I mean..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Bay_WallsBut I think that is VERY unlikely.. Actually more connections exist between California and Russia.. like Fort Ross.. a former fur trading station that is now a state park..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross,_California"The first multi-ethnic community in California" the web page claims, but what about the Spanish/Indian mission system?Which must have been multiethnic..