Very poor service experience with RS Components Germany - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 09:23:36 pm
content: Recently I've made the mistake to order from RS Components in Germany. It was the first time and will be also the last. They got an online shop for end customers and I've ordered a differential probe for my scope. The price was reasonable and I didn't want to buy it from abroad because of possible warranty and customs issues. When I opened the box I've found a wall wart with an UK plug. Doesn't fit too well in my Schuko socketsMy first tought was, it could have been some mistake. The product description in the online shop didn't mention the UK wall wart and also had no pictures showing that. So I contacted RS' customer service. Besides not the fastest, they told me there's no version with a Schuko wall wart and I may return the probe. or alternatively buy a more expensive one which runs on batteries. Since I like to keep the probe I checked their online shop for a matching wall wart and suggested to send me that one or to give me a small discount. The answer was they can do neither. Luckily I know German consumer laws. If something is wrong with the product you've bought, you can demand that the seller fixes the issue. If he can't fix the problem or denies to fix it, you have the right to undo the purchase or substract a reasonable sum from the price for compensation. Because RS denied to fix the problem and I already paid by credit card, I've asked them to return a reasonable sum. A customer service team leader responded asking for my bank account. Because I haven't received the money after waiting two weeks, I've contacted the customer service again and asked when they intent to transfer the sum. No response after waiting another week. What a great customer support!Usually when something goes wrong and you discuss the issue politely with the customer service, the problem will be fixed or they suggest a compromise. I've run a business myself and know how those things are handled. But RS provided me with the worst customer service I've experienced so far.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 09:55:17 pm
content: Hmm, can you not use an adapter?It's not at all uncommon to purchase items with the wrong plug. I have plenty of adapters and wallwarts accumulated over the years for just such an event. It's a very minor irritation, but it's no big deal.Is the RS you're dealing with in Germany, or elsewhere? If it is outside Germany, then German consumer law would have little relevance.It just sounds like your getting a bit hot under the collar for the sake of a EUR5 adapter or a EUR10 wallwart. While I'm not particularly supportive of RS one way or another, life's sometimes too short.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 10:42:42 pm
content: Try dealing with AT&T wireless in America. I got a phone for an extended stay and they over charged my bill by exactly 100.00$USD. They told me "sorry" we know its our fault but the biggest refund they were allowed to issue was 60.00. WTF?So with about an hour of arguing I drove to the store. The store wouldn't help so they gave me customer servie on their store phone. The store was super busy, so I put it on speaker phone for all the customers to hear they were stealing money. I got my 100.00 plus 70.00 back for bull shit tax. I wish Canada had that law like Germany.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 11:23:06 pm
content: Quote from: yada on June 16, 2017, 10:42:42 pmGood job! surprised it was America, Here in Israel, it occurs on daily basis. for example, if you want to switch from one internet/tv/whatever provider to other, expect to talk with the company you are trying to leave about 4 hours.On a site note, my friend made and order for an item worth 36$ in GearBest, they shipped it through a bloody crappy postal service somewhere in who know where ("express shipping"), and the site of the postal service didn't even have a contact email or phone, if you wanted to contact the post office, you better shot yourself because you can't find any way to contact them.over 45 days (and remember, he paid more for the shipping because it was express) and no sign of the package, gearbest are just trying to take the time and tells him the exact same thing (wait a little bit more, you entered the wrong zip number (he didn't) and much more).Until he opened a case on PayPal and they refunded him...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 10:54:42 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on June 16, 2017, 09:55:17 pmOf course I can. RS could have suggested that, but they didn't.Quote from: Howardlong on June 16, 2017, 09:55:17 pmWhen I buy a product from a German seller inside Germany and the product description doesn't mention anything about a non-Schuko plug, I expect a Schuko plug. Anything else would be a defect of the product and has to be fixed by the seller.Quote from: Howardlong on June 16, 2017, 09:55:17 pmYes, it's RS Components Germany, which is also noted on the invoice.Quote from: Howardlong on June 16, 2017, 09:55:17 pmIt's not about the few bucks, it's about the way they've treated me, that they've tried to violate German law and that they don't seem to adhere to their earlier statement paying me the requested compensation. I'm really amazed about such a known company behaving so badly. Therefore I wanted to share my experience to warn other buyers. Caveat emptorIt's more productive than suing RS for a few bucks and I prefer spending my free time with electronics, especially the Transistor Tester, than going berserk.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 11:31:57 am
content: As a point of interest, if they had done that in New Zealand, they would have almost certainly broken the law.Products connecting to the mains sold here are required to have a compliant New Zealand mains plug, no foreign plugs, no travel adaptors (deathdaptor as bigclive would say).Of course it doesn't stop people from selling those products since enforcement resources are limited, but it is certainly not uncommon that Energy Safety (government department) gets a complaint they will follow up with the vendor to at the least get the products off the shelf, and have been known to come down like a ton-of-bricks if they are really flouting the law.I'm surprised Germany, given it's officious reputation, doesn't have similar laws, or perhaps they do and you should give a little nudge to whatever the equivalent government department is.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 12:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 16, 2017, 09:23:36 pmNo, you should have checked what you have bought. RS & Farnell are somehow oriented at the UK market and thus lots of stuff from them comes with a UK mains adapter or power cord. Keep that in mind the next time you order from RS or Farnell.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 12:38:28 pm
content: Germany has no direct law to enforce a Schuko or Euro plug, which makes sense for me. If you want to buy a toaster for your uncle Bob in the UK, an UK mains plug would be handy, i.e. you should be allowed to buy something with a foreign mains plug on purpose. But if you buy something for demestic use it should have the proper plug. And unless stated otherwise by the seller the product has to have a proper domestic mains plug. If not, the product would have a defect. That's covered by the German "BGB". So we got a law indirectly enforcing the correct mains plug, but you can also get a foreign mains plug on purpose.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 12:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2017, 12:25:36 pmI've checked the German product description in their German online shop. Neither was the feature "UK mains plugs" mentioned, nor any picture showing the wall wart with an UK plug. So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected (German company selling a product in Germany). It's a clear case of selling a product not matching the description/offer. As I said before, I know the consumer laws (BGB in ths case).

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 01:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 17, 2017, 10:54:42 amThen quit your bitching. Do they need to hold your hand and come up with solutions to every problem you have? Get an adapter using the money you got back from them and problem solved! Part of the fun in electronics is adapting thing to make them work. Don't be like the people who work at home depot that think you can ONLY use a product for what's written on the box.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 01:35:07 pm
content: They haven't paid the requested compensation they've agreed to, yet. And after not responding to my question about when they will, I doubt they will.Please read the complete post and not just two sentences before criticising!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 04:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 17, 2017, 12:54:05 pmAlways check the datasheet! The image can be wrong (and sometimes is) and the terms of RS (but also Farnell) explicitly deny responsibility of errors in the information they provide on the website. Basically you can only complain if you got a different article based on the manufacturer's part number.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 06:04:16 pm
content: Denying any responsibility of errors in the product description doesn't matter much in Germany. Any part in "terms & conditions" violating the BGB is invalid. If a company sells a product with specific features the product needs to have those features, otherwise it's considered a defect. There are tons of court decisions about that topic confirming that over and over again.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 06:36:16 pm
content: UK is a member of the EU ( well, for the moment) and thus they supplied a unit that meets the EU spec. I know that they should have at least sent a complimentary deathdaptor with a Shucko plug on the one side and a UK socket among the other side, but they probably also supply to Switzerland, and have to have a different adaptor, to France which almost is a Shucko type and so on, so in most cases the customer will end up with a big box of adaptors that are unusable.They probably might also make the AC adaptor with the ability to have different country plug systems as a slide on and latch arrangement, like a lot of Japanese manufacturers do, supplying a plastic bag with 5 different plastic parts, that have in total 10g of plated steel as the current carrying bits, and which promptly gets 80% of them thrown away by the customer after complaining about having to figure out which one to use and how to follow the big fold out pictogram of how to install them ( slide and click, but wow how difficult) on the wall wart.Here there is a type M socket, which is now official, though I have yet to see any appliance or device with a true type M plug on it, only thing they get used for ( and the reason I put them in a lot) is to have cellphone chargers neatly arranged, and to plug in double isolated equipment that comes with a 2 pin socket that fits them. I put up a few to run DECT base stations and repeaters at work, as that way the adaptors do not go "missing" for use in cellphone chargers, i got tired of buying a dozen every 3 months to replace them.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 07:10:06 pm
content: In most cases mains powered products come only with a Euro or Schuko plug. Sometimes wall warts come with the slide-on mains plug to support different socket types, but they include only a Euro and UK slide-on plug typically. Products with an IEC connector rarely have additional cables with plugs for other countries. If they do, it's mostly an UK one. Usually the distributor/importer puts an IEC cable with a Schuko plug into the box or swaps the wall wart for one with a Euro plug if the manaufacturer didn't include the right one. Anything sold whithout stating a specific mains plug has to have a Euro or Schuko plug to be usable inside Germany. If not, it's considered a defect, because the product isn't fit for purpose, i.e. you can't plug it into the mains socket.

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 07:37:56 pm
content: Hello,what was the order number.I do not want to make the same mistake.with best regardsAndreas

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 07:51:25 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 17, 2017, 06:04:16 pmIn an earlier post you wrote that 'So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected' so you obviously didn't read all the documentation (=datasheet) but made an assumption. Let this be a lesson to study the specifications very well before buying something and don't make any assumptions.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: Andreas on June 17, 2017, 07:37:56 pmIt's 7296677. I've suggested to them to add a hint about the UK plug but they haven't done that.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2017, 07:51:25 pmSorry that you don't get it! Before buying I've read the product specification and the manual, which are both avaliable in the online shop. No hint about any mains plug, only mains voltages. If a German shop sells a product inside Germany and doesn't state any specific mains plus in the product description, the buyer can assume a Euro or Schuko plug. Otherwise it would be a defect. It's plain and simple.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:51:54 pm
content: Hello,now they have a picture.http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/oszilloskop-tastkopfe/7296677/?sra=pstkBest regardsegonotto

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:59:33 pm
content: Unfortunately not in the shop for consumers:https://www.rsonline-privat.de/Products/ProductDetail/PINTEK-Differential-Tastkopf-DP-25-25MHz-200-1-20-1-50-1-Serie-DP-7296677

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 11:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 17, 2017, 08:22:13 pmI think what people are failing to get is that German law is quite different to many, perhaps most, countries in two ways. 1) Sales of goods laws are actually enforced (whereas in many places those laws are weakly enforced or barely honoured at all). 2) In Germany many terms and conditions of supply are statutory in nature. A German colleague (Rüdiger*) of mine was very surprised to find that in commercial business in the UKwewrote the contract and that the terms of the contract were the whole thing that determined the legal relationship between us and our commercial customers, not a set of statutory rules.There is a different expectation in Germany, and Madires isn't being a whinger, he's saying that a commonly held expectation of how things are done has not been met. You have to spend a little while in Germany before you come to realise that "That's not right" and "Das ist nicht richtig" might mutually translate into each other, but don't meanquitethe same thing. We could have quite a long conversation about the idea of "deutsche ordnung" or, as the Germans say"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben**." - Order is half of life.It's unusually warm in the UK tonight (still over 27?C outside at nearly midnight) and thinking of my days occasionally working in Germany has me in the mood for a nice coldWeizenbier. No luck there, but the fridge did yield up a cold bottle of Guinness Rye Pale Ale which isn't too poor a substitute.*A name that my English colleagues consistently failed to be able to pronounce. It usually came out as Roo-digger, which always had me picturing some fair dinkum Digger with his regimental Roo. I mention his name because I happen to know that Madires knew some of my former German colleagues.**und Unordnung die andere Hälfte.

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 06:56:33 am
content: Hello,Quote from: madires on June 17, 2017, 08:06:01 pmThanks for the hint. The price is really good.Quote from: Cerebus on June 17, 2017, 11:00:03 pmand that is exactly the reason why it is very difficult in Germany as private end userto get special parts like LTZ1000 voltage references. Vishay precision resistors. etc...The laws here are on end user side. So many companies only sell B2B.(Even if some of the B2B companies now have a end customer shop where they mainly want to participate from the Raspberry Pi hype)In B2B- the customer itself is responsible for what he orders- no translation of the user guide to german is necessary- no sending back of goods (free for the customer) if the device does not please...I admit that the end customer site is a horror to use compared to the B2B site.(much less information and no overview, no filter functions)I keep in mind that RS is mainly a B2B company where I onlyorder things that I would have to order from overseas otherwise.(e.g. 9V AC power supplies like the 7300174 which are only for "industrial" use (no green label))By the way RS = Radio Spares is a British company even if they have a dispatch store in Germany.With best regardsAndreas

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 11:26:45 am
content: Just for clarification: I've bought the differential probe from RS Components GmbH in Mörfelden-Walldorf.

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:46:13 pm
content: ... with head office in Oxford. (ok also not mentioned on the consumer portal).

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 01:22:32 pm
content: I would watch out what your wish for :-)In Netherlands RS completely stopped selling to consumers because of consumer laws. They used to be fine with it if you paid upfront, but since a few years ago they stopped.My impression though is that they can't be arsed about providing service. It probably cost them too much overhead to deal with consumers and refund policies. When I asked how their policies fits with their DesignSpark hobbyist community, their only statement was that they don't sell to consumers.Since then I only use Farnell, but also partly because we've got agreat NL consumer initiativeto place orders at Farnell without any artificial limits.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 02:22:55 pm
content: Despite the clear consumer laws in Germany there are always companies trying to circumvent the law by trying to discourage customers (consumers) from claiming their rights, because being lawful would add additional costs to the business. If you don't have a basic understanding of the laws involved you can be ripped off easily without noticing. Therefore we've got organizations for consumer protection which will help you to claim your rights. They also have some additional rights to go after the bad companies.

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 07:59:11 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 18, 2017, 02:22:55 pmHello,you put it on the point. Someone has to pay for the service.And what do you think will happen?a) they increase the prices for end customers by 20-30% to compensate for the additional service?b) they cease the end customer business which sells only single parts instead of complete rails (after development phase).I fear the later. (see above).with best regardsAndreas

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 09:44:44 pm
content: Service? They have service???The problem is not limited to sales for private use. They do not help commercial customers either.They are not even able to provide legally required data about products they sell.And they won't enquire for you and never call back.And when you contact the manufacturer, you are sent back to where you bought it.Those distributors, no matter whether Digikey, RS or whatever, with the exception of some specialists and the fine company BÜRKLIN, are a really crappy bunch of bandits!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:06:01 am
content: It's not just the poor service, they're trying to violate consumer laws and don't adhere to promises they've made in my case. My intention is to warn other forum members about RS' wrongdoing.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 09:02:19 am
content: The funniest and worst thing sbout RS Poland in turn is, that they seem to have prepackages minimum wuantities of components, that you buy less than full reel of. Which means that once I've ordered ~120opamps for a small run (luckily - to be assemble dby hand anyway) and every single one of them came in a separate plastic bag. WTF?! everybody else can sell stuff in cut tape, so that you can put is onto a P&P machine.If i were to assemble that run on a machine, I'd just return that stuff to RS. Or send them the invoice for the extra the assembly house has imposed for delivering components in bulk.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 03:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on June 20, 2017, 09:02:19 amIf you look at a typical product that could come on cut tape you'll find a button to select between 'standard pack' and 'production pack' - the former are individually packed, the latter are cut tape (or tubes if that's how the manufacturer supplies them). The RS order numbers for the production pack variant have a 'P' suffix and are usually cheaper.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 03:57:45 pm
content: not sure if they changed the photo or something but...http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/oscilloscope-probes/7296677/clearly shows an UK plug

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 04:23:22 pm
content: ... but not the German online shop for consumers (seehttps://www.rsonline-privat.de/Products/ProductDetail/PINTEK-Differential-Tastkopf-DP-25-25MHz-200-1-20-1-50-1-Serie-DP-7296677). It's really strange that they have that picture in the B2B shop and not in the B2C one. If they would have, I wouldn't have complained. And they haven't added it or any other hint as I've suggested to them a month ago. Based on that I have to assume they simply don't care.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:50:20 pm
content: huh, didn't know you had a separate website. i buy from rs-online both as a business and as a private customer

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:22:03 am
content: Just a quick update. RS have transfered the requested compensation via credit card. Nice to see that they kept their promise.