Possible eBay scam technique. Has anyone else encountered this? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Johnboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 04:40:23 pm
content: Sorry if this has already come up a lot. I'm not sure how to search for this situation in prior threads.Made offer to seller on fairly light (but expensive) item, kind of a lowball offer, actually. Expecting offer to be declined. Surprisingly, seller responds with counteroffer, only a few dollars higher... but it now specifies that free shipping is no longer included. No specification, however, of how much shipping might be. When returning to item page and using shipping calculator it still shows as "0.00"; that is, free shipping.We all know that some eBay sellers inflate shipping costs for profit as it is... if I were to have accepted the counteroffer, who knows how much they might charge. I counteroffered the counteroffer with the same amount they asked for, but eBay tagged mine with free shipping again as part of the counteroffer.... and now, only the sounds of crickets here. Hmm.Has anyone else seen this before?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 04:51:47 pm
content: Not exactly that, but I've already experienced something similar with shipping costs that were not determined before buying (so I didn't buy...)Although handling shipping costs worldwide can be a headache for sellers, there's something really wrong here. How can you buy something without knowing how much you're really going to pay? That's just nuts. So yeah, I think eBay still has a problem with it that needs to be addressed.And yes, some sellers use inflated shipping fees to make extra money, since those are not subject to eBay's commission AFAIK.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 04:54:01 pm
content: All you can really do is ask. I've also allowed people who were local to come collect items a few times, I'll take a lower offer if I don't have to pack and ship something and pay the associated fees.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 05:45:07 pm
content: As @james_s says, if you've not already done so, message the seller and ask them to issue a final invoice with shipping, and then you can proceed with the purchase. A scammer? Assume they just forgot to do the math.@SiliconWizard : ebay now combines sales and shipping into onefinal selling fee, and charges mucho% on this. Which is the bane of sellers worldwide. Okay, before a seller might have listed a signal generator for €1 and charged €398 foreconomypostage and paid €0.10 selling fees. Now Ebay charges a big percentage on the postal service that it does not provide. Which is a scam.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 05:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on November 14, 2019, 05:45:07 pmOh, I didn't notice that. How long have they been doing this?

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 05:59:30 pm
content: @SiliconWizard : In the European Union for ten years now. Was most controversial for us sellers when first introduced, and it is still controversial.It makes sense for sellers to include shipping costs and list as 'free' shipping ( unless you're a Chinese seller, where shipping costs are a fraction of a cent - worldwide ).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 07:41:50 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on November 14, 2019, 05:45:07 pmYes this is absurd, it's possible to actually lose money on a transaction if you sell something cheap that is expensive to ship. This is mostly why I no longer offer international sales, international postage is horrendously expensive and the fees make it not worth it. I do remember the problem with super cheap items and greatly inflated shipping costs but when you buy the shipping through ebay they know exactly how much you paid for it. It's not possible to pad it and escape the fees so they have no excuse for charging a fee that includes the shipping beyond pure greed.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:05:40 pm
content: Yes, on an auction where I got the winning bid for around $2, but shipping was changed up afterwards to a much higher fee. Paid, and got the stuff, but left a 1 star rating for the seller. This was a while ago, before fleabay started charging fee's on shipping as well.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:13:01 pm
content: I sell items so occasionally that I wasn't aware of eBay's fee on the shipping fees (didn't notice, I should have). They may have done this to counteract the inflated shipping fees that some used to escape eBay's fees, but whatever, it's clearly a scam.As a buyer, buying stuff located in the US when you're in Europe has become almost impossible. The cumulated shipping + import fees are horrendous. It's a shame, because some items are almost exclusively to be found from US sellers (at least with as much choice and decent prices), such as used lab equipment, vintage computers, etc. But with all the fees, that's way way too expensive. I understand the shipping fees themselves (which are absolutely NOT what is expensive usually, unless you buy very heavy stuff), but all the taxes for importing used gear (I'm not talking about new stuff!!)? I find that delirious.

author: Johnboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:24:53 pm
content: Wow, I wasn't aware of this. A good thing to know if I ever considered becoming a seller, for sure.I can even sort of understand this policy, because if there is no benefit to the seller to inflate shipping costs, eBay doesn't "lose" so much money to the shipping industry (we ourselves assume the difference between shipping cost and shipping price was going into the seller's pocket, but it is likely very difficult for eBay to find out how much the shipping actually cost in many cases).I think one problem might be that it seems to be fairly inaccurate to determine shipping rates for individual bidders, at least in the US. I've noted that the shipping rates often don't change no matter what zip code I put into the shipping calculator. So there seems to be a sort of general catch-all on shipping costs. I have also seen individual sellers seem to admit that the shipping price is too high as quoted and state on the page that they will refund the difference to the buyer's method of payment, which seems to support this theory.EDIT: It's understood that eBay's practice of charging a percentage of the total cost, including the shipping, seems very unfair to sellers, and international buyers as well. Although I can see eBay thinking "why should the shipping companies make all this money off of us, and we are only charging a percentage of the mere price of the item?" Whether or not it's a "scam", exactly, depends on whether it hurts your pocket or not.I had wondered whether perhaps the seller just made a mistake and accidentally removed the free shipping offer from the counteroffer. But since I matched the price, and have heard nothing back, I may have given the seller too much credit. I looked at the seller's page and noted that they have apparently sold hundreds of low-price items, most of them junk gold fingers for scrappers. However, there are only a few dozen feedback lines and they are all five stars. I would retract my offer at this point if I had a legitimate reason (per eBay) to do so.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 14, 2019, 08:13:01 pmThat's exactly why they did it, but since you can now buy your postage directly through eBay they know precisely how much you paid for it and that already closes that loophole, it's borderline criminal that they charge a fee on something you pay for and it used to be worse when they owned PayPal so were double dipping getting PayPal fees too.Shipping overseas has gotten crazy expensive. Last time I sent a small box to England it was over $50. USPS used to offer reasonably priced surface international shipping but now it's airmail only.

author: Johnboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:38:43 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 14, 2019, 08:29:50 pmI agree with that. If they are going to charge a fee that includes the shipping, why not stick it to the shipping companies instead of the seller and have that amount deducted from the price of shipping sold to the seller, especially if they are negotiating those prices with the shipping companies themselves to offer them to sellers? I had never seen an "eBay" branded shipping box before last week.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:48:07 pm
content: The reasonable way to do it would be to exempt shipping purchased through eBay from the fees. Go ahead and charge a fee on handling and other padding surcharges but not shipping that you buy through them. I would sell much more if not for the risk of losing money.