Getting Started with Electronics - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: CeyranAdam2014
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pm
content: Hello Everyone,I must state upfront that, I did some research before posting my question(s); however, my lack of knowledge in the subject matter might have prevented me from looking for the right forum questions, asked in the right way. Therefore, I sincerely apologize if my questions are asked before and answered already. I also apologize for the long post, but I wanted to paint a clear picture for you guys and break-down everything into pieces. By this way, I hope I can also reflect my experience as a beginner for the other beginners.My Background:==============Civil engineering, Bs. Sci. and Ms. Sci.No prior knowledge of electricity/electronics except the physics classes taken about 2-decades agoFormer amateur woodworkerInterested in learning electronics as a hobbyist What I Want to Do In Electronics:===========================1. Classic projects that every hobbyist should/would do2. Both analog and digital circuit projects (including doing my own PCBs)3. Arduino Projects4. Raspberry Pi Projects5. Radio Projects (perhaps ham-radio in the distant future)For items  and  I understand that the sky is the limit and ultimately, but (based on my limited knowledge) I would like to do projects involving sensors and robotics (drones and quadcopters, etc.). What Equipment/Resources Do I Have Presently:======================================A. Books:********1. Getting Started in Electronics, Forrest M. Mims III2. Make: Electronics, Charles Platt3. Getting Started with Arduino, 2nd Ed., Massimo Banzi4. Mouser Electronics Printed CatalogB. Other Learning Resources:***********************1. EEVBlog YouTube Channel2. MJLorton's YouTube Channel3. AfrotechMods YouTube ChannelC. Tools:*******1. Mastech MS8268 Autoranging Multimeter (with additional test leads)2. Hakko Digital FX888D soldering station3. Some hand tools suitable for electronics (tweezers, side cutters, precision screw drivers, etc.)4. Helping hands with magnifierD. Materials/Components/Kits:************************1. Radio Shack electronics component kits 1 and 2 (in sync with Make: Electronics)2. Everything I could scrape from the garage (cables, power adapters, computer parts, light bulbs, etc.)3. Arduino Uno4. Radio Shack Arduino basic components kit What Equipment/Tools I wish to Have in the Near Future:============================================1. DC Power Supply2. Digital Oscilloscope3. Signal/Function Generator4. Second Multimeter5. USB Diigtal Microscope Limitations:===========1. No spare room in the garage to setup as an electronics lab2. Electronics lab will be my home-office desk (an L-shaped desk)3. Therefore projects, materials, and the equipment will have to be packed and/or put aside4. Wish to keep the cost of initial investment as reasonable as possible without having to need to upgrade the equipment/tools in the near future My Comments/Questions:=====================This is the part where my own research could not allow me to come to a definitive conclusion with regards to choosing the above mentioned equipments wisely. I would have greatlyappreciated any comments and inputs from you experienced hobbyists.A. DC Power Supply:****************I know this is a project every electronics hobbyist should build his/her own. Nonetheless, I still would like to have one to get me started.: If all hobby electronics projects can work with off the shelf batteries (1.5V, 9V, etc.) why would one need a variable current/voltage power supply?: Is there a real advantage of having a programmable power supply (or is there really an advantage of having a programmable one)?: I have been considering the following power supplies as my first power supply.I know that (2) is reviewed by Dave and I also believe that the defects in the product are fixed bythe manufacturer in the later production lines.1. KORAD KD3005D -http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KD3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B00FPU6G4E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417894926&sr=8-2&keywords=korad2. KORAD KA3005P -http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KA3005P-Programmable-Precision-Adjustable/dp/B0085QLNFM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417894926&sr=8-1&keywords=korad3. Dr.Meter HY3003D -http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-Single-Output-Supply-HY3003D-Included/dp/B0096JU7D6/ref=dp_ob_title_defWhich one of these power supplies would you recommend in terms of (a) functionality range to satisfy my needs based on hobby purposes (b) value of investmen in the short and long term(c) best bang for the money?B. Digital Oscilloscope:******************I know Dave recommends to have an analog scope. While I totally agree with it, I will not have enough space for it. Thus, at this point in time, I wish to go with a digital scope. I'veheard about the 5th harmonics rule. So if I have a 100 MHz scope, I can measure and display signals up to 20 MHz.Based on this concept, for the type of work I wish to do: What is the maximum bandwidth I would need in my digital scope? I have been considering the following digital scopes as my first digital scope:1. Siglent SDS1052DL 50 MHz -http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDS1052DL-TFT-LCD-Bench-Top-Oscilloscope/dp/B00GQNN70A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417899768&sr=8-2&keywords=siglent2. Siglent SDS1072CML 70 MHz -http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDS1072CML-TFT-LCD-Bench-Top-Oscilloscope/dp/B00GQNNHJG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1417899768&sr=8-4&keywords=siglent3. Siglent SDS1102CML 100 MHz -http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDS1102CML-TFT-LCD-Bench-Top-Oscilloscope/dp/B00GQNNL1U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417899768&sr=8-1&keywords=siglentThe 50 MHz model has 500 MSa/Sec sampling rate while the 70 MHz and 100 MHz models have 1GSa/Sec sampling rates. Which one of these digital oscilloscopes would you recommend in terms of (a) functionality range to satisfy my needs based on hobby purposes (b) value of investmen in the short and long term(c) best bang for the money?C. Signal/Function Generator:************************I am not knowledgeable about this tool but I watched Afrotechmods' video on signal generators. Also, as per Dave's video it appears that it is a necessary tool. What is the maximum bandwidth I would need in a signal generator for the type of projects I want to work on/with? Would a single channel signal generator be sufficient? I have been considering the following signal generator:1. Siglent SDG805 Single Channel 5 mhz -http://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDG805-Bandwidth-Generator/dp/B00ITOJ43I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417900734&sr=8-2&keywords=siglent+signal+generatorWould this be a one-time purchase for the type of projects I would like to work on?D. Second Multimeter:******************I watched Dave's mid-range multimeter review (and other multimeter review videos as well). He recommends having two so that (a) we can measure current and voltage at the same time, (b) wecan compare our measurements.I have been considering the following multimeter as my second one:1. UNI-T UT61D True RMS -http://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-UT61D-True-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B00BRKYL7A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417901227&sr=8-2&keywords=uni-t There is another model of this multimeter (UT61E) which also has the temperature measurement capability. Do you think it is crucial to have this capability for the type of electronicswork I wish to do? What would be the other comments and/or feedback you may have about this particular model?E. USB Digital Microscope:*********************I think it would be nice to have a reasonable microscope so I can inspect my solder work and pcb circuits. I have been considering the following:Plugable USB 2.0 Handheld Digital Microscope with stand -http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Handheld-Digital-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B00AFH3IN4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417901588&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+microscopeDoes anybody have any comments on this?Once again, my sincere apologies for the long questions and thank you very much in advance for your time, patience and help. I hope to become a contributing member of the forum and theelectronics hobby community.Regards,CeyranAdam2014

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 10:13:42 pm
content: Quote from: CeyranAdam2014 on December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pmBe careful. I've seen quite a bit of mis-information in his videos. As his disclaimer says on the front of his videos, he's "learning as he goes" - and that's great! But then goes on in a "teaching voice" - so it can be very confusing.Quote from: CeyranAdam2014 on December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pmThey are IMHO worthless. Everyone buys one, and then your figure out about 100 better ways to do something then with helping hands.Quote from: CeyranAdam2014 on December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pmLots of reason. One reason, when starting out, limiting current will keep you from making your wires glow red when you screw up.Quote from: CeyranAdam2014 on December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pmYes, Get the programmable version.Quote from: CeyranAdam2014 on December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pmRigol ds1054z is the sweat spot right now. It's $400 but there is a discount code for it from Tequipment.NET available on this forum. Pick up an analog scope as your learning or when a good deal pops up.Quote from: CeyranAdam2014 on December 06, 2014, 09:46:46 pmI'd go for the 61EHope that helps.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 03:47:18 am
content: I agree with everything George says except for the multimeter. I would go for the UT139C, a Brymen BM257S if you can afford it, or an Amprobe AM530 or AM570. If you are going to get a second meter it might as well be one that has some real input protection. The UT61E is a better buy than the UT61D but it has no back light, no temperature, and very poor input protection but does have a PC cable and software included.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 07:25:52 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 07, 2014, 03:47:18 amAll true - very good points. I'll just say that the display on the UT61E is so crisp, that unless you are in the dark, a back light isn't needed. it does drift a bit, but for a beginner - that's not here nor there)I do use my temp probe on my fluke 87-5 way more then I ever thought I would - so that's a good point as well.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 07:29:34 am
content: Follow your interests, building gear and a lab as you go, so many different directions.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:58:38 pm
content: My US$0.02:Power supply: I have the Dr. Meter clone, but the 5A version which I think is better - I have seen myself using the higher current ranges more often than I imagined, and I am now building my own 20A power supply as a side project. In my opinion the programmability is not really a key feature and I would save the money to buy a better second multimeter as suggested by Lightages.Oscilloscope: I have the DS1102E and have to agree it is somewhat outdated compared to the DS1054Z. However, if you can have the older model for a great price it is perfect for the day-to-day.It's been several years that I have been in electronics and, for several reasons that include prioritizing funding for other test gear, I still don't own a signal generator. Several factors contributed to this, but nowadays I have a tendency to simply build small signal generators when I need them, especially for sinewaves. For square waves I have a small application on one of the microcontroller development kits (Launchpads mostly) I have around and toggle one or multiple GPIOs at the desired fixed frequencies.Second meter: I didn't care much for the temperature sensor of my Fluke 179, but nowadays I use it quite a lot, especially when dealing with higher power circuitry, as the finger thermometer starts to become very painful...I agree with wilfred: get the USB microscope later. Despite this, I havethis other USB microscope, which is similar to the one Dave reviewed, and it is reasonable for its price.

author: CeyranAdam2014
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 12:14:20 am
content: Thank you very much all.I liked the other microscope Dave reviewed. That seems to be a better investment and I'll get it later.What do you guys think about the oscilloscope band width? Would 50 or 70 or 100 would suffice for the type of projects I wish to work on?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 12:18:53 am
content: Quote from: george graves on December 06, 2014, 10:13:42 pmAs a counter point I use mine all the time. From soldering connectors or tinning multi-core cables, through to holding small PCB's for population, soldering and rework. I don't use the magnifier, but the helping hands get lots of use. Horses for courses.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 02:10:21 am
content: I have a Panavise 301 vise and a workcenter and I still use my 2 helping hands occasionally. I don't have the magnifiers on them either as I have better magnification available to me.

author: CeyranAdam2014
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 04:10:54 am
content: I also have been considering one of those Panavise models; when the time comes.Thanks for the suggestion.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 04:33:30 pm
content: I have aPanavise 324that I use all the time. I postponed this purchase for years and I really don't know what I was thinking... I want those years back!

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 07:39:39 pm
content: Since I can't afford a Mantis microscope or similar I've found a USB microscope invaluable for identifying ICs even though they're somewhat awkward to use. Magnifying glasses no longer cut it for me. Oh for the days when I could read chips at a metre distance.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 08:05:01 pm
content: For magnification I use a $35 anglepoise style fluorescent illuminated magnifier that you clamp on the desk, and a $300 halogen illuminated stereo microscope. I've had both for many years, and very occasionally the bulbs need replacing. Without any doubt, I use the anglepoise magnifier throughout the whole day both as a magnifier and just for illumination of the desks. The illuminated magnifier occasionally needs it screws re-tightening.The anglepoise style magnifiers are much better than goosenecks or simple two-pivot arm jobs. This is the sort of thing I mean:http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/22w-fluorescent-daylight-magnifier-lamp-a29ff. A bigger lens means you get to see more. There are some lenses with dual dioptre, where a small area has more magnification than the rest of it, which can occasionally be handy.As you're just starting out, I wouldn't bother with a microscope yet, but I definitely would get an illuminated magnifier. I only started using a microscope when I started soldering SMD 0402 parts, these are about the size of a grain of sugar.If you can afford it, certainly the DS1054Z as others have suggested seems the go to scope of the moment at that end of the market. I have the slightly faster MSO version of it with a (dual) signal generator and it's excellent value. (You may see a few complaints and moans about jitter and AC coupled trigger at the moment with these scopes, to be honest I'd not noticed it until it was drawn to our attention, and compared with other scopes with similar provenance, there's little doubt in my mind that Rigol is the best of the bunch). The DS1054Z isn't available with a signal generator but the DS1074Z is (DS1074Z-S). In the end an integrated signal generator is a bit of a compromise, for example the user interface is a bit more fiddly than a dedicated signal generator, and on the Rigol the outputs are on the back of the scope. It also lacks external sync, modulation and triggering, but it's really handy to have it irrespective. At your level, I would doubt you'd miss it.Any of those power supplies would work to get you started. Having current limit is really useful to have because it saves you from yourself. But be aware that current limit can also lead to hours of frustration when your circuit behaves strangely if you inadvertently leave it set too low, I speak from more than one bitter experience of this. I've managed without a tracking power supply for almost all my 30 year career.Most of the things I design are on very small, but high density boards, and a simple low profile vice is all I use. If it's really small, a few mm square, I just Kapton tape the board to the back of a bit of single sided PCB and put that in the vice. Keep in mind that some desktop vices may raise the board up quite high making microscope access difficult.I won't comment too much on the multimeter choice, it's not something I'm an expert on, other than to say that I just use el cheapo 3 1/2 digit units. My favourite is an old $20 Radio Shack pen style meter, but I also occasionally use a handheld meter when I need to measure high current. I do have a couple on analogue meters, but they're hardly ever used at all.