Out with Leaded Solder! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: dannybeckett
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:08:37 pm
content: Hi guys,I was listening to a Radio 4 show a few months a go (UK) where they were interviewing a professor working on a research project investigating the dangers of lead in a society. I found his research very concerning - they observed that about 20 years after lead had been removed from a society, violence within that society decreased drastically. This was observed with societies across the globe, over and over. Lead is a severe neurotoxin which resides in your bones for years, and electronics engineers are in direct contact with it almost every day. I personally avoid leaded solder like the plague now but I know of many other engineers who use it without a care in the world. It's dangerous! Switch over!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoninghttp://realityswipe.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/violentcrime/http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2013/03/tetraethyl-lead-violence-linkhttp://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/presspacs/2014/acs-presspac-february-5-2014/mounting-evidence-links-leads-toxic-effects-to-criminal-behavior.htmlhttp://www.monbiot.com/2013/01/07/the-grime-behind-the-crime/

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:12:26 pm
content: OMG, Im out, gonna join the company sales team.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:19:50 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 28, 2014, 01:12:26 pmJoin the marketing department, that way no one will notice if the lead has affected your brain.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:21:25 pm
content: Correlation != causation. Gonna need way more research to convince me.

author: gxti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:25:30 pm
content: Leaded gasoline != leaded solderI hope your car battery is not a lead-acid type, you might be poisoning yourself every time you start your car /sarcasm

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:33:51 pm
content: There are so many other reasons for violence I think claiming that it is solely due to lead is a bit silly

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:37:08 pm
content: About 20 years after the switching to lead-free petrol we had a peak in violent crime!

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:38:14 pm
content: Your links are about tetraethyl-lead, which is the kind used in leaded gasoline. The danger with that is that the lead ends up in a volatile form in the engine exhaust, for everyone to breathe. That danger has been clearly demonstrated, at the very least in the intellectual development of pre-schoolers close to a highly trafficked road using leaded gasoline. This is why that was banned. It was for a similar reason that leaded paint got banned back in the day. The paint contained lead acetate, which meant kids liked to lick leaded paint flakes because of the sweet taste. In other words, two cases where there's an accidental route of administration.The same isn't really true for leaded solder. The leaddoes notend up in the solder fumes. The worry there is that old electronics will end up in landfills and slowly seep into the groundwater. That is also a risk, but one than is more easily prevented that in the case of leaded gasoline. And that's also a risk that would not affect the individual tinkerer with his/her roll of 60/40. I'd be much more worried about mercury from CFLs seeping into the groundwater to be honest, as traditional lightbulbs are being phased out and clueless consumers throw CFLs in the trash instead of recycling them properly. I will happily keep using my leaded solder, even though I'm cautious enough to wash my hands before grabbing a snack after soldering.

author: Mr. Coffee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:38:29 pm
content: Quote from: Dago on March 28, 2014, 01:21:25 pmStop thinking critically and factually...that's not "feel good" thinking!

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:42:52 pm
content: Quote from: dannybeckett on March 28, 2014, 01:08:37 pmWhile it is true that lead compounds are poisonous and lead in the environment is a really bad idea, one should be critical of blanket claims.When lead white was a popular pigment in paints and water pipes were soldered using lead the exposure was a clear health hazard and the effects were obvious. Also it is easy to argue that replacing lead in car fuel thus avoiding dispersing lead particles to the environment canot be anything but a smart move. The fine lead particles will react and form compounds that are absorbed into living tissues. Also i won't object replacing lead birdshot with steel although the hunters may think otherwise.OTOH, metallic lead as in solder is a risk so small as to be nonexistent. Provided the recycling of old electronics is organized reasonably, that lead won't hit the environment and when in service it will not interact with anything.By that same logic one should avoid all heavy metals like the plague - copper, tin, zinc etc. At least copper and tin compounds have been popular ingredients in boat antifouling paints due to their toxicity. Now they are banned along with lead but nobody seems to be worried about handling metallic copper and tin. As they shoudn't. It is the same with lead. I won't recommend licking your fingers after a heavy soldering session but neither am i worried about the lead being a particular issue. Worry more about the colophone smoke which is not a vitamin either.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 02:30:06 pm
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on March 28, 2014, 01:38:14 pmNot really. How do you accurately measure 'intellectual development' of pre-schoolers? How do you eliminate confounding influences?Do you think Johnny who lives next to a lead smelter or licks lead particles from the pavement or lives in a dusty house which hasn't been painted in 30 years is going to appear to be as intellectually developed as Jimmy who lives in a new house in a clean part of town?I spent some time looking at studies years ago (including those which measured lead content in hair samples so at least the got one part of the equation right) and came to the conclusion that any statistical correlation was at noise levels.Lead and child development seems to be a pretty classic case of epidemiology finding something that isn't there because people want to find it. Like the OP who clearly wants to be part of a crusade against some evil wickedness regardless of it actually existing or not.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 02:41:26 pm
content: I love tin whiskers in the morning...

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 03:58:32 pm
content: Did an interesting project in Environmental Chemistry back in school, gathered soil samples along a line perpendicular to the road, from road to house. Expectation: a gradual rise in the direction of the road (TEL fallout), and a steep rise near the house (paint).I probably have the homework somewhere. As I recall, it was something like 200 parts (I forget if ppm or ppb?!) near the road, falling off over 10-20 feet distance, 50-100 in the middle, and >>100 within a few feet of the house. Give or take patches and stuff.Tim

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 05:27:59 pm
content: Metallic lead is notoriously unreactive.The flux fumes in lead-free solder are typically much nastier than good old leaded.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 05:47:38 pm
content: I'll give you my reel of 60/40 when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 05:53:45 pm
content: I worry more about the little fact that SAPREF found a small leak in a tank that used to contain TB lead additive for fuel.They estimate they lost over 250kl over the decades, and likely most of it went straight into the harbour water, where it likely was concentrated into the fish. I may fish there, but will not eat the fish, and doubly so after that, as most are also contaminated by mercury. There was a guy who dug a hole in his garden, and the groundwater was more fuel than water, from decades of pipeline leaks.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 06:19:41 pm
content: If lead in solder was a cause of violence the news would be full of EE's going on the rampage whereas I have never see a report of an EE behaving in a violent manner.The main cause of violent crime is alchohol and drugs.I suspect that the man being interviewed was trying for another grant.

author: dannybeckett
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 07:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on March 28, 2014, 01:38:14 pmI do agree with this, my primary concern with leaded solder though is the fact we handle it all day then touch food, our faces, keys, clothes, all of which end up contaminated with lead if we haven't washed our hands. I know for a fact I touch my face DURING a soldering session. Fact of the matter is that lead is a severe neurotoxin, stays in your body for years upon years and some research suggests that wholly removing it from societies impacts the level of violent crime in it after 20 years. For me, it's just not worth the risk when there's a perfectly reasonable, lead-free alternative

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 07:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: dannybeckett on March 28, 2014, 07:15:53 pmDid they eliminate the problems/cases caused by all the other heavy metals present?

author: ampdoctor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 08:15:07 pm
content: First thing I ask when I see this kind of research is who's paying the bills. If it's some lead-free environmental group or whatever that's a big red flag that would cause me to analyze the data meticulously for any signs of bias, intentional or otherwise.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 08:23:56 pm
content: The same argument goes for mercury in teeth fillings. They do leak mercury but a fish contains way more mercury than the amount leaking from fillings.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 09:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on March 28, 2014, 06:19:41 pmHow about this EE going postal on a poor defenseless camcorder?http://www.eevblog.com/2014/03/26/eevblog-595-worlds-shittiest-camcorder-teardown/

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 09:20:56 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on March 28, 2014, 06:19:41 pmDo not omit the contribution of wankers requiring a punch to the face.Edit: or whack with a lead pipe, just to stay on topic.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 09:47:50 pm
content: Quote from: senso on March 28, 2014, 02:41:26 pmGood point!Any numbers about injuries or deaths caused by tin whiskers?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 09:55:25 pm
content: Quote from: apelly on March 28, 2014, 09:20:56 pmYou forgot lead shot. Like from a 1597 revolver.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 09:58:10 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on March 28, 2014, 06:19:41 pmIs alchohol a hilarious form of ethyl alcohol? ho ho ho.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 09:58:20 pm
content: I read that the British army is going to remove lead from bullets as it is hazardous to health, never mind the fact that it's travelling above the speed of sound through the body punching a dirty great hole, it could cause lead poisoning.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 10:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on March 28, 2014, 09:58:20 pmThat's one of the reasons why depleted uranium is a much better choice.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 10:59:14 pm
content: Quote from: Kremmen on March 28, 2014, 01:42:52 pmWe'd die without copper and zinc which are essential trace elements. Of course an acute overdose can cause poisoning but slight excesses are eliminated from the body over time. Lead is toxic, has no biological role and accumulates in the body.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 11:06:52 pm
content: Lead has nothing to do with violence in society. Any Greeny who tries to take away my lead/tin solder should be garotted and dissolved in a bath like in Breaking Bad.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 11:47:10 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on March 28, 2014, 09:02:48 pmI could swear in that teardown the solder was declared lead free?

author: tsmith35
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 12:09:28 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Coffee on March 28, 2014, 01:38:29 pmI'm going to go with the media on this... the numbers don't lie. Or do they?Mark Twain said, "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 12:15:02 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 28, 2014, 11:06:52 pmagree,for thousand of year we human never had a decade without war.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 12:42:00 am
content: Quote from: tsmith35 on March 29, 2014, 12:09:28 amOnly 17 pirates in year 2000. I'm not sure the music recording industry would agree with you.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 02:28:04 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on March 28, 2014, 05:47:38 pmLikewise, my 63/37. I love the smell of solder flux in the morning!

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 03:35:05 am
content: You can pry my gun and eutectic solder from my cold dead hands!

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 03:42:35 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on March 28, 2014, 09:55:25 pmGood point, but here in the Land of the Long White Cloud, as duck season approaches, I should point out that lead shot is banned. Bad for the ducks. Yep.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 03:46:21 am
content: Quote from: apelly on March 29, 2014, 03:42:35 amLead free bullets?

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 03:48:25 am
content: Nope. Lead bullets, but steel shot.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 05:37:47 am
content: Quote from: apelly on March 29, 2014, 03:48:25 amTis true, and it isn't very good for the guncan nastily gouge the barrels of older shotguns.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 05:56:06 am
content: That's nuts!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 06:42:06 am
content: Tin shotgun rounds then? soft on the barrel, and the extra whiskers will be safe.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 06:44:08 am
content: Urban violence will decline when they only serve UNLEADED in bars.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 07:02:28 am
content: Since I started soldering 15 years ago, and 10 years ago started partaking in all manner of things man shouldn't play with.(I think i lost much of my sense of smell attempting to get downs cells working... (chlorine gas))Other chemical hazards, such as the experimental vaccines they test on troops (served 5 years in the USMC)One recent example: (i melted a car battery down a couple months ago, burned out the plastic casing and all in a kiln, started a thermite reaction.. i uh "accidentally" (yeah, right) left some aluminium in the bottom lol) --the sides of the kiln are coated in all colors of the rainbow now!--the white smoke was odorless btw.yes, i still stick the lead solder in my mouth to pull more out of the spool while using my third hand to hold the work and my third eye* to get a better perspective on the situationi would wager a bet that i have relatively high levels of lead in my system.i've also noticed over the last 10 years i've developed a crap load more anger and closed mindedness.-however, i'm only 25, so there's a lot of other changes i'm trying to normalize out, and that's difficult.then again, i also lived with about 10 grams of mercury floating around in a stainless steel cup on my desk for about a year, about 3 years ago. --in 90F ambient conditions!suck it EPA! (i have no idea where that mercury went, and i can't remember where i got it from either)*that's a joke folks, regarding what's in store for the human race, we're fucked.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 09:01:15 am
content: You cant shoot wild foul in the UK or the EU with lead shot either.At one time I used to be a range officer at the local R&P club (yes prior to that bastard Blair we had those in the UK) as such we had our blood tested for lead, interesting thing was that the lead levels was below the average for the UK most likely due to living in a rural location. It is TET that is or was the problem not metallic lead which probably dose no more harm in landfill sites compared to a lot of other stuff that goes into them, but tin should no more be going into land fill either or any other metal for that. We do not have enough of these metals to be wasting them

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 09:57:31 am
content: Pt Pirie is a town in the same state in which I live and is host to the worlds largest lead smelter, it has been operation for many decades. The town and the smelter are very close and blood lead levels in children and adults commonly exceed what is considered safe levels.The state Tertiary Paediatric Hospital is now probably the world authority on lead poisoning and its effect on child development. They can approximate how many IQ points you have lost from lead if you grow up in Pt Pirie. This can be quite large effects e.g. 10 IQ points i.e. one standard deviation lower.The problem is Pt Pirie is not a wealthy town and the smelter provides a huge economic boost to the town. The locals are divided as to whether the smelter is "good" or not.Lead in petrol was the major end product of the smelter, now its batteries. I can't find a figure for leaded solder (now only mostly hobbyists and space work I believe).I find lead free solder a real pain to work with but I don't really want to be driving a business that turns kids into idiots.I think about what sort of battery I buy and how I dispose of it.I still use lead solder in critical joints but give the lead free a go if not so critical.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 06:00:01 pm
content: Quote from: VK5RC on March 29, 2014, 09:57:31 amI am sure that leaded batteries contribute far more to this than leaded solder ever will.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 10:54:47 pm
content: Let's face it the real concern is not the use of lead solder, but the disposal of electronic equipment, lead soldered or not, as this has a potentially serious effect on the environment.If truly efficient systems recycling systems were in place this whole question might be irrelevant.

author: electrodacus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:12:17 am
content: I did not used Lead solder in the last 10 years. There is no need for it so not sure why people continue to use it.As for the dangers of Lead I have a good example.A technician at the university where I have done my study, quite some time ago has died of lead poisoning.He did not wash his hands after working with lead solder and that transfered to his cigarette and he inhaled Lead vapors.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:15:44 am
content: Quote from: electrodacus on March 30, 2014, 02:12:17 amthat seems more of a improper handling problem.sort of like working in a BSL4 lab without a positive pressure suit and dying from what you're working on.pretty sure those of us who prefer leaded use it because it's easier to handle and subjects components to less thermal shock.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:17:09 am
content: Quote from: electrodacus on March 30, 2014, 02:12:17 amBecause it works better.QuoteLead didn't kill him, a double dose of stupidity did.

author: electrodacus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:19:40 am
content: Quote from: Fsck on March 30, 2014, 02:15:44 amYes it was an improper use but that guy was not aware of that and has done that for years.Maybe there are other handling problems that people are not aware of. Lead is not mercury but still not great.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:21:24 am
content: Quote from: electrodacus on March 30, 2014, 02:19:40 amIf he wasn't aware lead is toxic, he should have gone to school, not worked at one.

author: AhhhChoo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:28:56 am
content: Lead poisoning symptoms:1. Headaches, irritability, fatigue, difficulty sleeping, difficulty learning or concentrating, aggressive behavior2. Stomach pain, constipation, vomiting, nausea, weight loss3. Hearing loss4. Anemia, unusual paleness, slowed growth, seizures, coma, staggering walk5. Kidney damage, loss of appetite6. Reduced sensations7. Muscle weaknesshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoningSo probably best no to eat it if at all possible

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:29:32 am
content: the same for working with lead or any (toxic) heavy metal with open breaks in the skin..

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:33:46 am
content: I have 1, 3 & 6. And some of 4.You sure these aren't just the symptoms of getting older?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 02:57:10 am
content: Quote from: apelly on March 30, 2014, 02:33:46 amOr alcohol intoxication ....

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 05:19:25 am
content: Quote from: dannybeckett on March 28, 2014, 01:08:37 pmDanny, GTFO. You can literally swallow metallic lead balls without any ill effects; the toxins you're talking about, organic lead compounds, are not found in solder. Stop peddling your "think of the children" crusade and actually learn something, like what a neurotoxin actually is rather than spouting.Maybe investigate XYY syndrome, another interesting idea about crime.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 07:00:38 am
content: A study (a non random sample of amateur radio ops in South Australia) of blood lead levels in 'hobbyists' i.e. amateur radio ops, has not found increased levels, some also worked for their working lives in the local telecommunications company, so may have had some occupational "leaded solder fume" exposure as well. Front page of QEX showing article below.http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QEX_Next_Issue/Sep-Oct_2013/QEX_9_13_ToC.pdfNote the fumes from leaded solder rarely contain lead, usually flux (whatever it is in your brand of solder)There is some gut absorption of lead, I think quite poor, lead paint dust, with its very large surface area, (produced by renovations of older lead painted houses) is a potential source of blood lead.Like voltage you need to consider the risks and take care.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 03:30:04 pm
content: Lead solder, coffee, pork, red meat, sugar, anything and everything. It just does not matter. You are going to die.

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 04:50:33 pm
content: I hear that there are ginormous LEAD deposits just sitting in the earth! LEAD!Fortunately there are large companies trying hard to extract it so as to purify the planet.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 05:01:30 pm
content: Quote from: Kryoclasm on March 30, 2014, 04:50:33 pmSomeone should do a video of them licking a piece of solder just to put the anti-lead people into a frenzy.But you are right, pulling the lead out of the earth and putting it in electronics means less lead for plants and animals to absorb, so our food is safer, right?

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 05:12:28 pm
content: It seems like everywhere you scratch the earth, something noxious to life comes out.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 06:03:06 pm
content: I have a book on the Franklin Expedition to find the Northwest Passage "Frozen in Time" by Owne Beattie and John Geiger.The relevance to the present discussion is that they found a high degree of lead in the frozen bodies of the crew members who died early and the rest seem to have gone mad from lead poisoning.The lead came from solder in the tin cans. It was a very early attempt at tinning (or canning) food and they didn't do the soldering very well.There may also be a contribution from the lead in the pewter drinking vessels used by the officers.The origin of the term blue blood is supposed to come from lead water pipes leading to lead poisoning. And one cause of the down fall of the Roman Empire is supposed to be lead poisoning from their water pipes.Having said that, I'll probably continue to use lead/tin solder as I reckon I'll die from other things before the lead gets me.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 06:10:07 pm
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on March 30, 2014, 03:30:04 pmTrue and your body is a disposable container for your genes. Being disposable means that if you haven't polluted it and worn it out by the time you die it has to some extent been wasted - like a kleenex tissue has no value till it is covered in snot.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 06:22:44 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on March 30, 2014, 06:10:07 pmI dunno, I don't have much use for a snot covered kleenex.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 06:24:06 pm
content: The Romans got a lot of lead from the lead acetate they used to make sweet wine.As they used lead vessels to brew the wine this dissolved the lead into the wine and made the lead acetate. Lead water pipes with the water supply they had was safe, as the high lime content in the water tended to precipitate out in the piping and form an isolating layer very fast. This would get quite thick, and was later used as a form of marble to make pillars. As the rich were able to afford wine every day, and the poor had only wine brewed in wood, which was not as sweet, along with beer, the lead dose was proportional to wealth.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 07:13:57 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on March 30, 2014, 06:03:06 pmI recently read that it was racism to discriminate against the recently converted Muslims in Spain (back when that was a thing -- 15th century or thereabouts), since the fair and translucent-skinned rich had visible blue veins while the more tanned, ethnic and southern (including N. Africa) population didn't.That said, it's the exact same point, class conflict. Go figure, eh?...Supposedly, there are plenty of lead water mains still in use in various parts of the modern world; I don't know how true that is (as long as it keeps on working, they aren't going to rip it up just to have look at!), but I think it's perfectly reasonable. The water around here is so rich in carbonates and sulfates that lead has a hard time doing anything, though this area is new enough (19th century) not to have that sort of concern regardless. Plenty of other areas have similar geology though. Out east, or eaaaaast (i.e., Europe), who knows -- the plumbing is easily old enough, and as long as the white gunk (lead corrosion) is stuck in place, no one's the wiser.Tim

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 07:19:16 pm
content: One of my previous houses had lead water pipes. I had it tested when I first bought it, completely clean, then tested 4-5 more times when I found out they were lead!

author: CaptnYellowShirt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 07:53:17 pm
content: "... Sorry that's how it works."

author: tsmith35
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 09:40:55 pm
content: From personal experience and research, I find the words used in Wikipedia to be quite accurate: "Lead poisoning typically results from ingestion of food or water contaminated with lead; but may also occur after accidental ingestion of contaminated soil, dust, or lead-based paint."Ingestion is the consumption of a substance. This can occur through the mouth, but it can also occur through the nose: typically, lead particles or fumes enter the nose and are collected in the sinuses. The sinuses drain into the throat, leading to ingestion. Once in the stomach, gastric acid dissolves the lead, allowing it to be absorbed by the body. Since the body is unable to differentiate between lead and calcium, zinc, or other such similar compounds, it is readily absorbed and will be deposited into bones along with the rest.Lead fumes are generally not a concern for most people, since they are formed when lead boils at 1750°C (about 3200°F). The smoke that comes off of solder is due to flux.The trick to avoiding lead poisoning, now that gasoline is unleaded, is simply to keep it out of your nose and out of your mouth:Wash your hands when you're done touching lead.Wear gloves whenever possible.Never eat or smoke after touching lead, unless you have washed your hands thoroughly.Avoid creating dust when you're cleaning up, and wear a particulate respirator if creating dust is unavoidable.If you vacuum up lead dust, you must use a HEPA filter to prevent the lead dust from being expelled from the vacuum cleaner.If you get lead or lead dust on your body, take a shower and wash your hair thoroughly.Wash clothing that has been in contact with lead separately from other clothing.Keep tools, gloves and any other items used with lead separate from your other tools. It helps to mark such items if not obvious, such as with gloves.Avoiding lead poisoning is pretty much common sense.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 11:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: dannybeckett on March 28, 2014, 01:08:37 pmSo 90% of the population in jails must have been electronic engineers.And people in the street, hiding when one passed by.