Amazon EEEEE store - is it any good? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: avibag
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 08:30:10 pm
content: Hi friendsHas anybody here tried the assortment kits from the EEEEE store on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/stores/EEEEE/page/0DDAEA46-863D-4737-92DE-C8CDFAB4A93E)? They seem to sell really useful kits in wonderful packages. But I want to make sure I get high quality products - I had enough problems with cheap Aliexpress products...Any thoughts / insights / warnings?

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 08:47:27 pm
content: I haven't, but the prices are low enough that I might order a kit or two and determine if it is worthwhile. Or not.There is a saying that one can trade-off money and time. If you don't have time to spare to complete a project, then you pay full price from a reputable vendor. But if you have time to spare and willingness to learn, these low cost offerings are always welcome.When I was a student in the early 70s, companies would sell bags of unmarked transistors, something like 100 for $1 US, but one would have to painstakingly sort them out and with a meter figure them out whether they were NPN/PNP. There were some duds included, but overall it allowed me to enjoy my electronics hobby on a shoestring.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 09:05:15 pm
content: I'd like to buy the storage containers they use.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 11:04:15 pm
content: The general warning is that Amazon has a problem with fake reviews. Also, a lot of sellers will find a listing that has good reviews and change it to another item entirely in order to more easily dump their junky product.There is also a high likelihood of fake/counterfeit components.However, that is a general comment and I can't speak from experience on that company.There are a couple sellers here in the US that have grab bags of components that I've used to fill up my stash of spare parts:https://www.jameco.com/c/Passive-Component-Grab-Bags.htmlhttps://theelectronicgoldmine.com/search?q=surprise&sort_by=relevancehttps://theelectronicgoldmine.com/search?q=assortment&sort_by=relevance

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 11:19:32 pm
content: Literally fake parts on their photos. I consider buying such stuff on Amazon to be Aliexpress + extra stupid tax.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 12:30:56 am
content: I agree with @wraper, et al: you are almost certain to be buying fake parts.I wouldn't touch the electronics stuff with a bargepole. However, the fasteners look a much better bet. The concept of "fake" doesn't have much meaning when it comes to nuts and bolts, because you can see immediately if the M4 x 20mm bolt is, in fact, an M4 thread and 20mm long. I guess the only risk is if you want high tensile bolts with a specific yield strength - you can't establish that by looking. But honestly, if I wanted bolts with a specific yield strength then I would get them from a reputable supplier. For all other purposes these should be just fine. I'm going to order some.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 02:03:12 am
content: Smart or stupid, I bought myself some of these kits a few months ago and I have no complaints. Specifically, I bought the analog ICs Kit, the MOSFET Kit, and the Inductor Kit. The containers are really nice and have the pinout for the analog ICs. I have used a number of the op-amps and comparators as well as the 555 timer, and optocoupler so far of the analog ICs and the have worked as expected. I am not sure that I would recommend the inductor kit personally since it only goes up to 10 mH and the current ratings listed are not the greatest, but that is to be expected of such small inductors. Also, the inductors do have a 10% tolerance listed which is probably okay for most breadboarding but would not necessarily cut it if you are trying to design a high precision circuit. I have given some of the MOSFETs a try and am currently using the p-channel MOSFET in a power latch prototype circuit.So, I don't know if they are "fake parts" or if they 100% match the actual specifications of the part numbers they claim to be, but the parts I have gotten have worked just fine for any application I have needed them for. I would recommend them if you just need them for prototyping and breadboarding, but I cannot say for sure when you get into higher precision circuits. Ultimately, I have been very pleased with them.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 02:30:45 am
content: I buy a good bit on Amazon but it is no place to look for quality or name brand components. Most of the stuff seems good enough for learning circuits but I wouldn’t by things like op amps there. Jelly bean components and basic transistors are probably ok but for the most part it’s like Ali Express just faster, at least in the US.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 09:49:45 am
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 04, 2024, 02:03:12 amContainers indeed look nice, however if they sent you what's shown on their pictures, you got boxes filled exclusively with counterfeit parts.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 12:12:38 pm
content: Yeah, avoid MOSFETs and ICs (and other semiconductors) because the performance of the counterfeits is too far from real things, it really ruins your hobby. For example I have got regulators which had completely different output voltage to what was printed, and MOSFETs with like 5x worse current capability compared to the real thing.Resistor kits are usually OK-ish, and stuff like pin headers usually acceptable.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 12:16:48 pm
content: No experience of the Amazon kits but I suspect they are manufacturers rejects or otherwise not top flight. They are convenient and probably OK for messing about, where it doesn't matter whether an op amp falls short of the spec, or the 5% resistors are at both extremes of +/- 5%.Respectable suppliers, such as RS, have sold own brand parts which fell a little short of the spec of the maker's branded part.If I'm buying parts (especially electrolytic capacitors) for an important project or repair, I prefer to go to Farnell, Digikey etc and buy new. Sometimes I go to an established hobbyist supplier, who can have items the big suppliers don't, especially recently obsoleted things. I've occasionally held my nose and bought from ebay - risky, but I haven't been bitten yet. I don't buy parts from China. I have bought bags of components at swapmeets which are old. I haven't had any particular problems with them and they are cheap.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 12:27:05 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on July 04, 2024, 12:16:48 pmThey are a convenient way how to get pain in the ass troubleshooting and questioning your own sanity. They are either different parts with fake marking or recycled e-waste, counterfeiters even cut old terminals off and weld new ones instead. Real rejects are extremely rare, at best you will get a genuine low grade part relabeled into a better grade.QuoteNonsense, rebranded parts are exactly the same parts.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 01:35:33 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 09:49:45 amDo I care if they are counterfeit parts so long as they get the job done? Of course, if I were putting out a product I would use a more "reputable" supplier to have greater assurance of repeatability, but for prototyping these do the job for my purposes.Quote from: Siwastaja on July 04, 2024, 12:12:38 pmThen the company would really be shooting themselves in the foot by listing the current ratings, VDSS, and VGSright on their  packaging where even the most inexperienced users can easily verify that their components are not up to spec.Maybe you are all correct in saying that thes kits are "fake". But even if they are, you have no facts yet to back up your claim. While the generalization that most semiconductor products that you can buy on Amazon are fake might be a reasonable claim to make, you cannot draw a conclusion about any given supplier unless you have experience with that supplier.I have had some experience with this supplier's parts, and while it has not been extensive it has been more than anyone else's here so far. I would actually be interested if someone more experienced than me gave these kits a more thourough test.I am not going to say that you should buy from them necessarily because maybe other suppliers like Digikey suit your needs better, but I am saying that I currently have no problem buying from them. Until someone presents more conclusive data, it is calumny to just apply a generalization to a specific supplier without any sort of facts about that specific supplier to back up the claims.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 05:09:58 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 04, 2024, 01:35:33 pmI would care if a MOSFET I use drops 5x more voltage than it should and therefore heats 5x as much too. Also I would be quite concerned about shitty vregs that do not handle maximum voltage and fail short, not to say oscillate. I would rather just buy a cheap genuine part with 5x less current spec than use that cat in a sack. Just two recent threads where people waste their time due to fake parts:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/p-channel-mosfet-voltage-loss-between-d-s/msg5555899/#msg5555899https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lm317-output-voltage-drop-out-of-spec-(maybe)/msg5562793/#msg5562793QuoteOr you could just order a bunch of cheap parts from LCSC that do not pretend to be something they aren't.QuoteThose who buy that garbage usually don't know any better and often don't ever look into datasheet, not to say measure specs or understand what they mean. So selling this garbage pretty much goes unpunished.QuoteThe fact is all semiconductors with manufacturer logo on the pictures from particular seller are 100% fake.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 06:01:44 pm
content: A few years ago I bought a 1/4 watt resistor kit from Amazon, took a good bit of heat here for doing that too, whatever. There were 2600 pcs, 130 values from 1 to 3meg. They were marked 1% but I ignored that. I checked a bunch while organizing them and all were easily within 5%. My goal was to have literally any reasonable value at hand quickly for bread-boarding various learning circuits as I ran across them. I got a bunch of clear plastic baseball card loose leaf binder sleeves and put each value in its own pocket. Now I can quickly find most any value I need in a few seconds. Mission accomplished. The leads are thin and bend easily going into a solderless breadboard, but they work. If I build something that rates soldering I usually get good components from Mouser etc, and I have quite a few on hand, but often not what I need, so for $15 this assortment has paid off in spades for me. YMMV

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 06:31:26 pm
content: To understand why there's so much cheating (we call it fraud) by Chinese sellers you need to know a bit about Chinese culture. There is a lovely proverb which sums it up perfectly: 能骗就骗 - If you can cheat, then cheat. They do it inside China, as well with foreign customers.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 08:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 05:09:58 pmWell then, lets see the numbers. You do have numbers to back up the claim that this specific supplier sells products that are way out of spec as you have been claiming this entire time, don't you?Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 05:09:58 pmWhat facts? I don't see any facts. All I see is fallacy of division: claiming that just because "most amazon suppliers" sell fake parts that are not up to specifications means that this specific supplier must sell fake parts. Surely you have not bought from every seller of electronic components on Amazon and can verify that it is 100% true that anyone who sells components on Amazon must be selling fakes? And since you have not shared your personal experience from buying from this seller I assume you have never bought from them or used any of their products and thus cannot legitimately make any claims about their products. I on the other hand have provided what experience I have had. I even was specific to say that, while I have had not problem with them, someone who might want to push the components to the edge of the their specificationsmightfind them out of spec.*Begin Edit*Additionally, what sort of photos would you look for from authentic suppliers? I am not sure what makes thes photos so "obviously fake". Is it just because they remove the background? Plenty of other authentic suppliers do. Is it just becuase they depict them all together as a group? What do you expect when they are selling it as a group.*End Edit*I don't care if they're a "big business" in your eyes. It does not make it right to calumniate them without any sort of facts to back up your claims.Imagine most of the people I know are hypocritical people (most people I know are not hypocritical, but I know that there are many who find themselves in a situation where almost everyone they know is hypocritical). I cannot conclude based on the little that I know about you specifically that you specifically are hypocritical. I highly doubt you are, but I could be wrong. To ensure no offence was taken I will give another example. Imagine most of the people I know are always honest and authentic. I cannot conclude based on the little that I know about you specifically that you specifically are always honest and authentic.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 09:12:54 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 04, 2024, 08:30:29 pmSurely you need to dive into a pool of shit every single time to actually know it's a pool of shit, despite there being a sign saying "a pool of shit". You can buy genuine parts on Aliexpress, ebay and amazon (latter usually makes no sense as it's the same Chinese sellers with extra cost and less choice). However those components must be hard to counterfeit and still you need to verify everything thoroughly, and only makes sense when there is barely any other choice since you're likely will receive shit. I've seen Attiny24 relabeled as Attiny24A mixed with Attiny24A relabeled into Attiny24A with newer date code in the same batch. Toshiba TA8435 stepper driver IC relabeled into TB6560 stepper driver, that would actually cause a lot of damage if used, I was happy to measure pins with multimeter to find out pinout didn't match. I've seen EEPROM IC relabeled into another, although most of the time just date code and speed grade is faked. Onsemi MOSFETS in DFN package relabeled into a more beefy part. If it's a part that can be easily substituted and work on a first glance, it will be counterfeited. Honest sellers simply cannot compete on these platforms. 99% of western brand transistors, vreg ICs (ST counterfeits are the most popular, usually have a logo looking more like S7 rather than ST) and opamps are fake, even LM358.QuoteExperience like: "I put it in undemanding circuit, it appears to work on a first glance, therefore must be good". Again, I'd rather buy a genuine Chinese component for 1/5 of the cost of western part rather than some random shit that pretends to be from western brand (that may be relatively ok or outright junk).QuoteIt's a big business and due to people like you it's hard to buy some obscure, obsolete, or just discounted NOS components without being duped. Because if you sell electronic components, it's basically a requirement to be shady to thrive on those platforms.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 09:17:10 pm
content: Still fallacies and no facts.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 09:29:31 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 09:12:54 pmThat is the generalization you keep making that is not absolute (but you keep treating as if it is absolute).Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 09:12:54 pmI have quite the proposal for you: send me a diagram for a circuit using at least one of these parts (nothing too fancy) that you deem demanding and then we will satisfy the lacking hard numbers behind both of our claims. I will build the circuit and send pictures of the measurements. If you are right, that is wonderful...at least this time there will be data to backup your claim.Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 09:12:54 pmThat is all quite well, I take no issue with that.Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 09:12:54 pmWhy might that be? I don't see why a company like DigiKey couldn't sell products on Amazon as well and totally sweep the Amazon market.Yes! Yes! Yes! There are tons of fraud electronics suppliers on Amazon, but that does not logically conclude that this specific supplier is one.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 09:56:05 pm
content: Don't support companies that are part of the problem. For every one EEVblog member that might be able to dodge the iffy stuff on Amazon there are going to be 10 or 100 unwitting buyers of that junk. Louis Rossman has done some videos on this in the past on crimp connectors and fuses, for example:

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 10:09:35 pm
content: And...as I was saying: how is that evidence that this specific supplier is a big fraud? Thes claims have all been using the guilt by association fallacy and the fallacy of division.I literally have the dream offer for the whole question at hand:Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 04, 2024, 09:29:31 pmLiterally, no risk to any of you (they are my components, so I bear the risk). All you have to do is give me the circuit and tell me what specs you want to see measured and BAM there is the conclusive data.

author: calzap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 10:40:58 pm
content: Probably a lot of the reviews of no-name fuses on Amazon are real. The problem with fuses is they have to “break” to work properly. So the average purchaser puts no-name fuses in their car, and they seem to work. If there wasn’t a problem, say they’re adding an inverter or trailer brake, well, everything is working at installation, so no-name fuse must be OK. If there was a problem that blew a fuse, good chance it’s high current, like a short, and will blow a 25 A fuse as quickly as a 2 A. So, first fuse is replaced with no-name fuse, and it blows too. So, after 2 blown fuses, the problem gets fixed, new no-name fuse is installed, and everything seems OK. Either scenario will leave most customers satisfied.Mike

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 02:12:43 am
content: Good news! I did one test so far and now we have some harder numbers to go on. (not much data yet, but it is something).I ran the IRFZ44N with a resistive load. The circuit drew 32.8 mA with a voltage drop of 1.3 mV across the Drain and Source. I ran the test at about 5V.The resistance can be calculated from this using Ohms Law and comes out to be about 40 mOhms.The specifications listed on the IRFZ44N datasheet specify 22 mOhms Drain-Source resistancehttps://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/17807/PHILIPS/IRFZ44N.htmlI was fairly resigned to the fact wraper was right, but then I checked the datasheet again and saw that it said 22 mOhmsat 10VI thought to myself that it wouldn't make much of a difference, but decided to try anyway.So I re-did the measurements at 10V (which was a more like 9.77V but close enough). I also had to switch to a higher value resistor because the one I was using was getting too hot.This time I measured 9.9 mA with a voltage drop that my multimeter picked up as fluctuating between 0.2 and 0.1 mVThat means the new resistance comes out to 20 mOhms at worst, which is within spec.This is by no means to say that the parts are all for sure up to all the specs since this is the only testing that I have done so far, but it is a very good sign that they might be.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:20:17 am
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 04, 2024, 01:35:33 pmThe problem is, they don't get the job done. MOSFET which has one tenth of current rating, or a 3.3V regulator which actually outputs 1.8V are examples I have personally had. They are just utter waste of time.Sometimes you get lucky and get semi-decent counterfeits but finding them is much harder than just buying good stuff.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:26:31 am
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 02:12:43 amWhat manufacturer? IRFZ44N From Infenion/International rectifier has 17.5 mΩmaxat 10V VGS(typical is lower than that even for NXP part)https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-IRFZ44N-DataSheet-v01_01-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a40153563b3a9f220dAnother thing is that they may sell a part with lower VDSwhich automatically makes RDSgo down for the price. I'd at least measure gate capacitance to see if it's anywhere close to the real part. 40 mOhms at 5V VGSlikely means fake with a very small die but made on a more modern process (poor SOA in linear region), I would expect more resistance from a genuine part at 5V VGS. Also you use multimeter with insufficient resolution, and as they round to the low side (unless there is a positive offset) it easily can be anywhere in 0.2-0.3 mV region. Not that you should ever trust the last digit to begin with. As your meter should have tolerance spec something like 1% + 3 least significant digits (although it's garbage enough they don't mention digit tolerance spec at allhttps://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0268/7746/0673/files/01DMMAS830.pdf?v=1625849553EDIT: Mastech that actually makes it has ithttps://mastech-group.com/as/en/MAS830B±(0.5%+3)). You need either more current or a better meter to measure this.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 01:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 05, 2024, 10:26:31 amAgreed, I need a better measurement. I tried again running 169.6 mA through it and got 4 mV across the Drain-Source. The math comes out to be just over 23 OhmsNow here is the caveat to all of my measurements. Yes, I don't have the greatest test equipment. The multimeter that you were picking on was not one that I chose, but one that was given to me.That also means: no I do not have a power supply that can handle the current ratings that the IRFZ44N can handle. Nor do I have an LCR meter. This is all to say that I am limited in what testing I can do.This also means that I cannot match the test criteria put forth in Infeneon's datasheet exactly: ID= 25A, Pulse width ≤ 400µs, duty cycle ≤ 2%. This means any measurements I took must be taken with a grain of salt because they may be worse, or may be better.So the part could be out of spec or it could be within spec according to my measurements, all I can tell from my measurements so far is that if the IRFZ44N that I bought is out of spec at all, it is not hugely out of spec (as insinuated) at least as regards RDSSo I am pretty much at the limit of my testing when it comes to VDSIDor RDS. If someone else with better-suited test equipment wants to give it a shot go for it, but I doubt anyone has the guts to because it means biting the bullet and buying the components, around which there has been so much insistence that they are fake.Let me put it this way:Wraper, so far all I have heard from you (and most other people so far) about this company is slander: absolutely no personal experience with this company and yet somehow a self-declared expert. Instead of trying to tear down a company that this is probably the first you have heard of, just for superficial reasons (selling on Amazon, the pictures they use, etc) and withabsolutely no hard facts of your own(and even worse: asserting your pre-conceived opinion as fact), consider getting your own data.There is a saying that "if you cannot say anything nice do not say anything at all". Well, while I do not think that is always a rule to go by, here is something that one should always go by: "if you can't say something that you know for a fact, then don't present anything as fact".Yes: the fact is there are tons of fraudulent Amazon companies. I agree with that fact.And maybe the EEEEE store is one of them; I am by no means saying that the EEEEE store is honestly selling components up to spec. All I am trying to do is make sure the information shared is objective fact and not some random person's pre-conceived opinion.In response to:Quote from: wraper on July 04, 2024, 09:12:54 pmPerhaps it could be said that it is because of people like you that any honest electronics shop on Amazon does not survive.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 05:35:57 pm
content: When I compare the store images of the alleged International Rectifier MOSFETs and the ones I have in stock (bought from a reputable distributor) I can easily spot a difference. BTW, many small sellers from China don't know much about the products they sell, i.e. it's a side job of some student or housewife to make some extra bucks. There's a good chance that they just resell parts from some larger reseller without knowing that they got counterfeits.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 05:59:57 pm
content: Quote from: madires on July 05, 2024, 05:35:57 pmAFAIK many don't have anything in stock and when an order comes in get the cheapest garbage they can find on Huaqiangbei on that day.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 07:42:57 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 01:41:27 pmThey put photos with all blatant counterfeit parts on them themselves. The only parts on photos that cannot be called outright counterfeits are parts without a manufacturer logo. I have no reason to believe they'll ship anything better than what's on their photos. If you care about quality of products you sell, you should care enough to not photos with obvious counterfeits. Again your argument is that you shouldn't trust your eyes, you must dive in pool of shit just to be sure.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 08:28:49 pm
content: Look, all I am trying to say is that you have presented no hard facts about this and thus making these claims amounts to slander (which is highly unethical). I will not stand for it.Yes, the photos might look suspicious, but there could be legitimate reasons for the reason they look the way they do.I get it. Time and again I have said: yes there is still a good chance that they are selling frauds. But assertting that they are a fraud as fact without actually having any hard evidence (personal experience with the supplier, hard numbers from measurments of the supplier's products, etc.) just begs your own credibility.In America one pust prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty (that is to say that they are assumed to be innocent until proven otherwise). Maybe that is not the way they do it where you are, but it is the way they do it here in America. What you are doing is comparable to saying that a certain category of people have a higher statistical chance of committing a crime, and so they must have committed a crime. For example, ____ race has a high statistical likely hood of committing a crime, and, look, there is one of them and he has got a ton of tattoos and peircings and wears a dark hoodie...that means he must have committed a crime. Utter rubbish. Maybe the stats are in your favor, but it would certainly not be appropriate to just go around claiming the person is a criminal when all you have is statistics about a group and no actual hard facts about the person.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 08:53:10 pm
content: https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B0969KNBV5/ref=cm_cr_unknown?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=three_star&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-barQuote

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 09:22:33 pm
content: I've used amazon for stocking up on some kits of generic breadboarding parts, but beyond that I'd too avoid them for electronics, Farnell and RS actually give you the proper parts, and have the datasheets clearly linked to. Amazon doesn;t seem to have any facility for sellers to put a pdf document on their product page, nor any good way to filter search results the way electronics sellers do (by value, by tolerance, by pin count...) . Amazon can be fine for mechanical parts and motors, but definitely not for silicon, especially not anything you'll be permanently soldering in to a circuit. Amazon is also terrible for "test" equipment, many of the multimeters sold on there give results that are not simply inaccurate, but utterly wrong, I foolishly bought one once and it told me a 9V battery was giving 0.5V and that a 10K resistor had infinite ohms. For anything you need to give you proper results, particular your main multimeter, its RS/Farnell/Mouser/Digikey again, the cheapest on those are as cheap as Amazon's.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:07:53 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on July 05, 2024, 08:53:10 pmI was really looking for more of something to contribute to the discussion more than just: "here is what someone else said", but that is the sort of thing I would be looking for in a legitimate claim.I am not sure why you are quoting it considering that you have already established that you do not trust Amazon reviews. You have also expressed that there are plenty of people who do not know what they are doing who buy these things so it could easily be attributed to that. And there are always going to be negative reviews from a product even if it is from a reputable supplier like digikey (sometimes because people do not know what they are talking about):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/is-digikey-marketplace-no-different-from-aliexpress/msg5553427/#msg5553427But I digress.So, yes, (although not your own)this claimcan be accepted as legitimate criticism not mere slander. But if you are going to consider that a legitimate source, you have to consider all of the other Amazon reviews on that item as legitimate (you can't just pick and choose what fits your narrative and ignore the rest). In that case you would find an overwhelmingly positive response...so I am not sure that you want to do that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 10:07:53 pm95% of positive reviews are garbage, especially on Aliexpress where people usually leave positive reviews after just receiving an item. Amazon is not that much better. I don't care that many people are happy with what they received as usually they don't know any better, I always look if someone figured out it's garbage and why exactly. A while ago I bought POWXS rechargeable batteries on Amazon with a lot of nearly all positive reviews. Maybe there were some bad but nothing to do with capacity. Guess what, they were garbage with 70% of rated capacity for AA and 60% for AAA, heck I could buy IKEA branded Japanese eneloop cells for the same price if I bothered to visit IKEA that is on opposite end of the city unfortunately, so just ordered on amazon together with some other stuff against my better judgment.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:31:35 pm
content: And there are plenty of garbage negative reviews on Amazon and elsewhere:Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 10:07:53 pm...that does not exuse picking what fits your narrative and ignoring the rest.I have found plenty of garbage negative reviews on Amazon. I even found one where someone claimed that the physical parts they were sent for building a soccer goal were wrong even though the photos they included clearly showed that they had swapped the location of where two of the parts were supposed to go.Yes, you can weight the negative reviews more than the positive reviews but you don't just ignore them. I don't suppose you go around only buying products that have exclusively positive reviews and absolutely no negative reviews.Sad excuse. Very sad...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 10:31:35 pmThat's why you read what the review actually says. If it's nonsensical, inconclusive, then ignore it. In example I provided, person did a test against which no argument possible to change the conclusion that part was fake. I'd rather like to discuss product pictures from buyers but unfortunately a few that are available are not clear enough to see the markings.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:49:08 pm
content: Agreed. But who is going to go out of their way to to say: this specific component "met all the specifications...blah blah blah".By nature, critical reviews are going to be more specific becuase they are pointing out exactly what was wrong. A positive review is usually going to say that the person is overall satisfied with the product and will not go into specifics because there is nothing specific to draw attention to. Generally it is assumed (for any product on any platform) that if a product is positively reviewed that the product worked and so there is no need to go in the details of why or how it worked. The same is not the case for negative reviews. I think you know that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:55:36 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 10:31:35 pmWhen positive reviews say they're happy with the product like components, it's absolutely worthless. They're worth something only when there is a picture or buyer says why its looks to be genuine. But it's way too rare.Here is an example why.https://aliexpress.com/item/1005006152077072.htmlHundreds of reviews, nearly all positive (except one that says it's fake with no explanation), people happy with that IRFZ44N, many say something like "just received, not tested"... All fake garbage on their pictures.

author: SanctePieDecime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 11:10:29 pm
content: Agreed. The specific example is irrelevant to the specific supplier we are discussing, but the principle you are expressing holds true the supplier we are discussing. I do not have a problem with you ignoring those reviews, it is the ones where they say that they tested it and it worked. You may say that they did not test it thourougly enough, but who are you to say how much they tested it based on the limited information people tend to include in positive reviews.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 11:20:50 pm
content: Sure, not all the products are fake, but in the videos I posted by Louis Rossmann he makes the point that these sellers with nonsense names are using those names in order to better push questionable/fake/junk products. That is their goal. It's not their goal to build up a high-quality brand name that people can trust because that takes blood/sweat/tears/money.So by supporting and defending these people so much you are 100% part of the ongoing problem.Sometimes these kits from Digilent go on sale and combined with their education discount and free shipping can be somewhat reasonable to get some random parts for breadboard tinkering:https://digilent.com/shop/analog-parts-kit/https://digilent.com/shop/myparts-kit-from-texas-instruments-companion-parts-kit-for-ni-mydaq/(I checked my records and I paid less than $50 for the Analog parts kit the last time it was on sale.)BTW, Jameco is having a free US shipping sale right now for orders over $50, so this grab bag collection might be of interest:https://www.jameco.com/z/GB197-JAMECO-Schwab-s-Grab-Bag-Collection-of-Must-Have-Electronic-Components_163213.htmlEdit: These are also fun:https://www.jameco.com/z/GB191-3LBS-JAMECO-3-LB-Grab-Bag-100-s-of-Miscellaneous-Electronic-Components_135263.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 11:23:37 pm
content: Quote from: SanctePieDecime on July 05, 2024, 11:10:29 pm"Tested and it works" is only good enough to tell it's not an empty package or a dissimilar part. If someone tested them to be within spec, most likely they would say it if bothered to write a review.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 12:46:48 am
content: Reading through this thread is interesting.One would get the impression that EVERY SINGLE PURCHASE from place like eBay, Amazon, AliE, ect.. guarantees you will end up with a fake. This is just patently untrue. One would also get the impression that it is the retail sellers that are to blame. Again, the is simply untrue.Sure, you will get fakes, and if the supplier will not give you a refund, then ALi, eBay, Amazon, etc.. will.The thing is, most of these retailers DO NOT want to be in the position to have to refund since they loose on the deal. They buy these parts in good faith from the wholesale markets and the wholesale market get then from god knows who. It's the god knows who people that are making the fakes.Some suppliers I deal with on eBay do test parts. I have never gotten fakes off them. They are usually not the cheapest, but in some cases, especially where the part is obsolete, they might be the only source. Others I deal with are very responsive. I have gotten the odd fake off them in the past and if I let them know they will either give my money back right away, or they will locate good parts and ship them to me.I'd say I ended up with fakes less than 5% of the time but it has never cost me anything. Don't be afraid to let the seller and/or the platform know if you have problems. In nearly every case I have had they want to resolve the issue. Those that don't will never get my business again.Does that mean I never shop at Digi-key? Of course not. I use Digi-Key (and other top tier suppliers) when I don't have the time to get something from China.All that said, yeah there are some obvious fakes in the pictures from the Amazon site the OP posted. They may do what they are supposed to, but they may not. "Ya pays yer money, an ya takes yer chances!"

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 01:03:36 am
content: Quote from: avibag on July 03, 2024, 08:30:10 pmWell I'll give it a shot. I'm ordering some stuff anyway so I think I'll get a box of the nylon spacers and see what I get. Hey you only live once.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 01:20:35 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on July 06, 2024, 12:46:48 amIf you got only <5% fakes, it means you either ordered something quite specific or you simply have no clue how many fakes and recycled/relabeled e-waste you actually got. And buying something like obsolete transistors is nearly guaranteed to result in receiving counterfeits because if something is no longer available on the market, they'll make it. As I said earlier, if you want cheap parts, buy from LCSC (it's usually even cheaper than aliexpress for actually genuine stuff). Also there is UT-source for obsolete parts that is quite a bit less dodgy than aliexpress but you still may get fakes.QuoteIt depends on what you buy. If you buy cheap western brand power mosfets/vregs in TO-220 package, opamps (especially audio), chance of getting fakes is about 99% because sellers know their audience (clueless tinkerers).

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 01:31:11 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 06, 2024, 01:20:35 amWell, aren't you a nasty little piece of work! Are you always like this?No, I test my parts. At the very minimum I test them to meet the specifications pertinent to my application. I'm not the blissfully ignorant idiot you seem to think I am.As I said in my previous post, I'm careful who I buy from.I'd also really appreciate you not assuming you are somehow better than me and trying to call me out as some sort of dolt. You know nothing about me whatsoever and you've made an error here.The internet, isn't it great?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 01:50:40 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on July 06, 2024, 01:31:11 amSounds as if you'll consider counterfeit a genuine as long as it resembles original part and apparently works for your application.QuoteI've seen too many blissfully ignorant people who unknowingly buy fake junk to believe your claims.QuoteAnd every time someone hails a good trusted Chinese seller, I can find them selling fakes or already know that seller for selling counterfeits.Give some actual examples of those trusted sellers.QuoteI know that it's virtually impossible to get <5% of counterfeits on aliexpress unless you only buy some very specific or Chinese brand stuff.QuoteI don't know you, but I know about the stuff you talk about. Unless you inspect all those parts under microscope, compare marking with genuine stuff, check if marking cannot be wiped with solvent, and measure at least basic specs to match with datasheet, by default I consider your claim about <5% of fakes blissfully ignorant.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 02:04:51 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 06, 2024, 01:50:40 amYou mean like UT-Source?You make me laugh.I know small people like to have big mouths, so I'll leave you the last word on this. I have better things to do with my time than argue with you.(BTW, UT-Source is one of my preferred suppliers)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 02:11:46 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on July 06, 2024, 02:04:51 amAnd you just made a straw man argument. I said you can get fakes there but the chance you'll get genuine obsolete stuff is significantly better than on aliexpress. I never said it's a trusted source. I literally said you may get fakes there too. And if you buy jellybean MOSFET, opamps and similar stuff at either of those places, you have serious lapse of judgment problems.QuoteYou made a bunch of claims but cannot share a single trusted seller.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 02:43:11 am
content: BillyO, I found a picture of your project with IC from "Texas instruments" that is not from TI at all but has a very common Chinese imitation of TI logo.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 02:48:44 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 06, 2024, 02:37:40 amWhy are you dragging me back into this insane argument? I know damn well it's counterfeit. I used it because it has the best specification for the job. As I said before, as you well know as you made a comment on it, "At the very minimum I test them to meet the specifications pertinent to my application."This chip did. It gave a rise time of 1ns, the genuine TI part lagged behind at 1.7nS. Does it match every specification on the TI spec sheet? I couldn't give a duck's fart. I didn't need it to. I needed it to have a fast rise time which the genuine TI part did not give me. Does that mean it's a fake 74AC14? Probably not, just a better one for my needs than the logo suggests.Are you going to cyber-stalk some more, or are we done with this useless endeavor?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 06:00:26 am
content: So as long as the counterfeit is better than the original you're OK with this? What's next, forced labor is fine as long as the clothes fit you better? Classic examples of "the end justifies the means".

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 06:14:53 am
content: Quote from: J-R on July 06, 2024, 06:00:26 amThanks for your comment. I'll give it all the consideration it deserves.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 06:57:25 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on July 06, 2024, 06:14:53 amDitto

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 10:26:35 pm
content: Quote from: avibag on July 03, 2024, 08:30:10 pmQuote from: xrunner on July 06, 2024, 01:03:36 amI received the nylon spacer assortment they offer. The boxes are nice, and the spacers are well made and seem to be accurate. I show an 18 mm example.