OT: MYOB threaten to delete my records - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 12:24:25 pm
content: For those who don't know, MYOB is anonlinesmall business accounting system in Australia, the defacto standard here.I just got notice that my account is shut down, presumably at my request, which of course I didn't.I can't login to access any of my accounting/tax data except for invoices, two of which were unpaid because they failed to inform me my credit card had expired. So presumably that's the reason the account was shut down. Ok, fair enough. But I can't pay for those outstanding invoices, it doesn't let me!And the attached email informs me that they don't hold backups of my data, and that they may take steps to "delete your file permanently from our servers after a short period. "And of course I can't backup my data because I don't have access to it any moreHow is a company like this still in business in this market?AND they deleted my Facebook post on their page complaining about this!

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 01:27:02 pm
content: This is exactly why I use offline accounting system which is running on a laptop purchased specifically for this function and not used for anything else. And continue resisting attempts by QuickBooks to move me to online version. No way am I going to trust them (or anyone else for that matter) with safety of the data that I'm mandated by the government to preserve for 7 years and present to them on short notice if audit shows up at my door.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 01:42:13 pm
content: Sounds like the 'games as a service' scam all over again.My ex-wife (recently deceased) was signed up with a self-managed superfund. They provided an account in which to keep the funds. She finally read the fine print and discovered a clause that the SMSF company reserved the right to simply take all the money if they felt like it. She wasn't amused, and went to a great deal of trouble to convert the whole thing to a different form, in which the funds sat in a real bank account only she could access. But with the SMSF still providing the legal and accounting support.I didn't have the heart to tell her that banks have such 'bail in' clauses too.Oh, and if you own any actual physical gold? The government has a law in place by which they can take that too, any time they decide they want to. Check out the Australian Banking Act, section about gold.

author: mag_therm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 02:26:44 pm
content: I tried on-line accounting services , but for many years I have been using gnucash locally.It is a bit clunky but reliable, and I only use the functions really needed.The data from business bank accounts etc is transferred via downloaded csv etc files , so it is well isolated from them.It make a single backup file after each use, which I transfer to backup media from time to time.By the way, Terra's reference to "superfund" in Australia means a qualified retirement account.In USA it refers to legislation requiring contaminated industrial sites to be cleaned up. (!!)

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 03:15:04 pm
content: I second the opinion... Stick to offline open-source software multi-platform software which you have absolute control over. Personally I am using GNUCash (https://www.gnucash.org/), because it is available for Linux which is my main working environment... but it is also available for BSD, Solaris, Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows. Best of all, it is completely FREE and Open Source licensed under GPL.At first your accountant may scoff or raise an eyebrow at GNUCash as they can't believe free small-business level accounting software is any good. Your bookkeeper may also complain because they are used to using other stuff (like Quickbooks). However, once you have learned how to use it (and there are lots of free books available) it is quite powerful. I've been running 2 quite large businesses on it no problem for several years. My accountant or bookkeeper can install the Windows version if needed and I can easily send them my files that I use on Linux, and we can interchange files.The best (but biggest) book out there is:https://www.packtpub.com/product/gnucash-2-4-small-business-accounting-beginner-s-guide/9781849513869If you Google "Gnucash 2.4 Small Business Accounting PDF" you will probably find some ebooks floating around to browse but please consider compensating this author for this excellent book. Note that GNUCash is up to version 4.0 now but all of the basics are still applicable and everything you learn on v2.4 will help you still on 4.0.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 10:52:38 pm
content: There are two main reasons why I avoid online services wherever possible. The first is trusting security to a third party (especially when it has global exposure - as with anything cloud based).The second is this.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 01:51:56 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 08, 2020, 01:42:13 pmWho was that?They would have to be a signatory on the account.QuoteMy gold was lost in tragic boating accident officer.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 02:29:42 am
content: Spoke to support this morning, they said they permanently delete all account info after 1 month if you fail to pay. Scary because systems like this you might only log in once a month for payroll purposes.But because I caught this early I should be able to get my account back.EDIT: Yep, got my account back with info intact

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 02:58:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2020, 02:29:42 amPhew that's good to hear. Did you manage to figure out why they decided to delete it in the first place?

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 03:52:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2020, 02:29:42 amBullshit!You can bet your arse that if the Tax Office or some such org demanded such information they would cough it up in a heartbeat.For God's sake ppl. Stop it with this paying and giving these corporations the keys to your kingdom. Just sub-contract a book keeper. Have them on a short leash. It isn't rocket science.Be wary of companies that promise to alleviate the worry of conducting a small business.'Cos when the stuff gets in, you cannot get it out!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 05:26:40 am
content: Quote from: ANTALIFE on October 09, 2020, 02:58:37 amFirst post, failure to pay because of expired credit card.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 05:29:51 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 09, 2020, 03:52:41 amMy accountant does my books and returns, and charges a metric shit ton to do it. But MYOB was required for the new Single Touch Payroll system the government force mandated on all business from July 2019. MYOB is one of the official packages and the one recommended by the ATO to use. They even released a stripped down low cost version that just does STP and not much else.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:07:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2020, 05:29:51 amI'm just saying you need a separate accountant and book keeper. I learned years ago to not dump the book keeping duties onto a tax agent. I don't know about the rest of the world, but for our dung hill, the hard part about gaining the tax agent license is proving you can do book keeping. Ask your tax agent. That's what kills under graduates.However, there are specialist book keepers here and it is a thing. If you find a good one, they are worth their weight in cockie shit. The GST has provided a great mechanism for this type of hermit crab to prosper.Try it. Present your books, prepared by a professional sole trader book keeper to your tax agent and he (she?) will have a hard-on from here to Hong Kong.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:10:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2020, 02:29:42 amHoly crap that's aggressive storage space management policy.There are so many legitimate explanations and causes for somebody to fail to pay. Even when the client has the funds and is willing to pay for the service, what if they're in a traffic accident a day before the payment date. They could easily spent a month in hospital and suddenly two payment periods go by... poof, all data is gone.How can this policy be legal?

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:13:40 am
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on October 09, 2020, 06:10:43 amAs I said. It's just a corporate bullying tactic.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:22:30 am
content: Dave: I heard good things about Xero. Ditch MYOB and give Xero a try.I personally don't use cloud based accounting. I use Manager.io, which is a stand-alone app for small businesses. It does the job if you don't want anything special.Quote from: TerraHertz on October 08, 2020, 01:42:13 pmIn exchange for legal tender though - i.e. the bank is legally obligated to pay for it. Gold coins, jewellery and material that is being worked on by a gold smith is actually exempt. Now the issue is, the money you get in exchange might be losing value, which defeats the purpose of hoarding gold in the first place (if you are an investor).edit: Xero not Zero

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:22:49 am
content: We have MYOB in NZ too, and its pretty common.It's also well know to be a pretty bad service.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:56:09 am
content: Quote from: Psi on October 09, 2020, 06:22:49 amYou would think a business would send out a letter or email to alert their customer to the impending credit card expiry. Hell, even Paypal can manage to do that.It must be such a common problem of people overlooking the need to update their credit card details in all necessary places.Without being expert in what exactly MYOB and Xero do I would have expected sending such notices automatically would also be part of their service their own customers use to ensure those small businesses' customers keep their card details up to date.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:57:16 am
content: Quote from: Psi on October 09, 2020, 06:22:49 amThey lobbied (conned) both our govts into letting them worm their way into a monopolistic system so normies can still go about their business, all the while selling off purchase information, absolving themselves of any responsibility of liability.The part that shits me is the whole thing is like a Nigerian billionaire scam. Everyone is surprised when they get done but the marketing is so slick that it seems like it's a necessity. It really isn't.Dave thinks he's in front because the company restored the account status to how it was previously. But what is the company prepared to offer him for the time to sort it out and the worry incurred during this event?Claiming that obsolete credit card info is the cause is a lame argument. The system is so sophisticated that they couldn't manage to detect a card nearing expiry and send a email?There are plenty of creditors, Apple is one and one domain host I had can leap over credit card expiry. The domain host I refer to was so persistent that I was forced to nuke the card. So I don't buy that argument at all.Not arguing with you Psi, just being a grumblebum.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 07:25:33 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 09, 2020, 06:13:40 amYep, don't know about Aussie regulation on financial data "minimum" retention period, pretty sure NOT 1 month.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 08:32:28 am
content: I am a huge advocate for self-hosting where it's possible and economically viable. Email is one of the very few services I don't bother to host myself anymore, it's just not worth it these days.For everything else (including my PBX/VoIP services), I host my own servers.For a small business, you don't need to spend tens of thousands of dollars on infrastructure either. Just a few decent servers and virtualise everything. For my primary hypervisor, I use an old IBM System x3650 server I picked up for $300 and just upgraded the RAM to 64GB. It runs something like 11 or 12 VMs concurrently (including a Plex server that does video transcoding on the fly). It's by no means "powerful" by today's standards but it does the job and does it reasonably well.Since I've switched entirely to a Linux workflow, I find setting up these little "niche" servers much, much easier than a bloated Windows install. For backups, I just take regular snapshots of the VMs and back them up to my NAS. If the house burnt down, I could have all those machines up and running again within an hour.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 11:52:33 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 09, 2020, 06:07:34 amThey are CPA accountants and they know their stuff, not just a "tax agent". And it would just be double handling really, my needs are actually quite complex.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 11:56:31 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on October 09, 2020, 06:22:30 amNope, not worth my time. MYOB actually does very little for me, just payroll stuff, but it's a requirement of the new tax laws.QuoteA hammer and a drill is all that is needed to turn any gold into jewelry at a moments notice.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 12:06:41 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on October 09, 2020, 06:10:43 amYep!QuoteBecause 'ma private business, and nobody has ever challenged it.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:03:10 am
content: MYOB is a bit of a ripoff. Intuit is arguably better. I tried a few of these subscription packages, but I settled on Wave Accounting and am very happy with it. If you set up right (chart of accounts, GST etc), it is very good. Only downside is it does not support inventory management. It is hosted by a reputable Canadian company. Why is it free? They provide a credit/debit card transaction service for a small percentage, which you can turn off. I only get paid by bank transfer from other businesses, so I have never had to sue their credit card process yet.By the way, MYOB hooks you in in the same way that Microsoft Office 365 does. And so does Altium to some extent.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:21:56 am
content: Dave forgetting to tell MYOB of the expired card is a corner case. It appears this corner case is poorly engineered at MYOB.With Altium, I own a full license with subscription. But if I need another license for someone to help me out with workload just for a week on a different machine, it will cost me another $12K. Altium does not rent software so cannot cater for corner cases like this. Their excuse is "it is too hard to manage". I don't agree. I worked on a PGP encrypted licensing system 20 years ago for renting software features in a telecommunications system.... one month, three months, six months, one year. Never had a problem with it and it was quite popular.Some corner cases have really bad consequences if they are not handled. Consider the woman in Melbourne, who left Australia for Indonesia for a very short business trip of a day or two. She parked at the short term parking. She got a sick as a dog in Indonesia, was hospitalised and could not return for two weeks. Her parking fee reached $2000 and the private enterprise company who own Melbourne's Airport would not let her car out unless she paid it.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 06:48:57 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 10, 2020, 03:21:56 amBut this is where people need to know their rights as well as their responsibilities. A private car park operator cannot hold your assets to settle a debt like that. Unforeseen circumstances and mistakes happen but companies can't just take matters into their own hands. She would have been rightfully entitled to call the police and driven her vehicle away whilst leaving her details with the car park operator for settlement of the debt later. It pisses me off when the people running and working for companies believe they are above the law or act in a manner which is unconscionable.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 11:41:53 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 10, 2020, 03:21:56 amI can assure you it's not, they already had this in place and working at one point but dropped it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 11:46:27 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 10, 2020, 03:21:56 amRide in through the swipe gate on a bike, get a ticket, drive out with your car using the same ticket having paid the 1hr rate

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:18:11 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 08, 2020, 12:24:25 pmCloud computing can be a loser's game in some cases. The benefits that it brings are too often canceled out (and then some) by the downside risk of the provider changing their minds about the business model, or going out of business, or getting hacked and spreading personal data everywhere, etc. etc.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 10, 2020, 03:18:11 pmWhat many don't realise is that quite an astonishingly high number of these businesses with this shoehorn approach are built with the exit strategy as the primary goal. There is good money to be made in doing some hard work creating a new paradigm. Something which larger companies are unable to do. But the larger company can indeed afford to buy a mechanism that is already pre-built. At the end of the day, the customer is the product.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 05:25:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 10, 2020, 11:46:27 amThey now have electronics number plate detection mechanisms. They also make the walk to the car park the long way around so they make a lot more profit after the timed thresholds expire. They start charging motorists from the time you enter, not parked, so if their electronic system for showing spare spaces is not working properly and you spend 15 minutes looking for a parking space, you get charged for that time. Melbourne Airport pocketed $1.1 BILLION in profit from parking in the past 10 years. The Italian 'Ndrangheta would be better off getting out of drugs, meths, prostitution, bootlegging and murder, and go into airport parking where extortion is legal, more profitable and you don't go to jail for it.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 10:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 11, 2020, 05:25:24 amYet another reason why I'm so glad Covid put an end to non-essential air travel!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 05:33:26 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 11, 2020, 05:25:24 amI argued this point once at Sydney International Airport. They wanted to charge me for simply entering and leaving 20 minutes later, despite never actually parking (I was driving around looking for a casual parking spot whilst waiting for an arrival). I was nice about it rather than being an asshole. They let me out for free (and so they should have). They can have all the systems they like, sometimes it just takes a human to exercise a little common sense.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 10:20:21 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 11, 2020, 05:25:24 amWell they can't stop her from leaving, which would be false imprisonment.If she had insurance, then it should have been covered.There are ways round electronic number plate recognition, such as obscuring the number plate, which is not illegal, if done on private property.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 11:24:11 am
content: Delete your records!? I hope this is already resolved amicably.In the UK this would be an issue over business data retention. I'm not sure where MYOB exists, but trading in the state of NSW means it has to abide by business tax laws in NSW? It cannot do an ebay and dictate the T&Cs have global jurisprudence. The implication with MYOB is a business can just 'vanish', along with it's legally required records; usefull eh?Some interesting points made here:https://business.gov.au/Finance/Accounting/Record-keeping

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 08:13:15 am
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on October 12, 2020, 11:24:11 amAs I understand it the legal onus always falls back onto the tax payer. If you chose to use MYOB services then it's ultimately your responsibility to keep those records yourself.