good 9V battery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 01:13:15 pm
content: I can't believe that in the 21st century we are unable to build a 9V battery that lasts more than a few months in a DMM.I avoid Duracell because of their proven track record of dismal failure. So I bought a store brand alkaline 9V here in Montreal, it's the brand of a big chain pharmacy. It's usually good stuff.This morning the DMM was dead. I took the battery out and measured with my analog meter and it's 0V. Flat line. Took the battery apart and it's 6 x 1.5V cells and they're all covered in white corrosion.We're talking 6 months here, with very little use.Is there a known good brand?

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 01:28:23 pm
content: Procell

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 01:29:32 pm
content: Panasonic

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 01:37:57 pm
content: I am using 9V NiMH rechargeable for one of the DMMs. Look for the "Low Self Discharge" ones. They can stay charged for many months, maybe years. I have 2 of them, one in the DMM, one as backup. The price was about 2-3 times more then an alkaline, but I already have them for more then 2-3 years now. A charger is not mandatory to buy, they can be charged with a simple voltage source series with a resistor (charge for 7hr at 40mA). Bought them from LIDL supermarket.The brand is Tronic, and they look like that:https://www.lidl.de/de/tronic-ready-to-use-ni-mh-akkus/p205708

author: amitchell
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 01:57:44 pm
content: Maybe this is worth a try 2 x 600mAh lithium rechargeable with charger:https://www.amazon.com/EBL%C2%AE-Battery-Charger-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B00EY6BZWS/tag=metaefficient-20?th=1

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 04:14:11 pm
content: I took apart a dead one the other day just to get the 9V terminal I was surprised to see the top of the battery covered in a waxy material. One of the contacts just had a pointy crown to it. The press of the battery case was supposed to make the contact.

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 05:26:15 pm
content: Alkaline batteries will leak if discharged, so get 'em out the minute they're drained. What's the current draw of the meter? Does it go into sleep mode? My Fluke will go for years on a single battery of any brand and I use it almost every day.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 05:37:46 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on March 25, 2017, 01:13:15 pmOf course we are able to build a 9 V battery that lasts more than a few months. My RadioShack 22-812 meters take a 9 V battery and the same battery will operate the meter for 2-3 years of intermittent use with no trouble at all.You need to ask not about the battery, but about the meter.What meter is it?What is the quiescent battery drain when the meter is switched off? Have you measured it?Does the meter have a soft power switch or a physical one? Soft or standby power off switches continue to drain the battery.How much are you using the meter over the six months? Are you using it a lot, or is it just sitting on a shelf?Usually, when there is excessive battery drain it is not the battery that is at fault.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2017, 05:42:12 pm
content: I'm also curious what make and model multimeter you have.Some earlier generations of the Fluke 170 series multimeter had a problem and drained the battery. Seehttp://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=264761

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 02:37:44 am
content: My Fluke 79III goes for many years when used daily with an Energizer 9V alkaline battery, not a no-name-brand (Chinese?) battery that was sitting in a drug store for years.The Fluke turns itself off when it detects a long pause.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 12:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on March 25, 2017, 01:13:15 pmI'm gonna agree with the others here who place the blame on the meter, not the battery.My Fluke 87V that I bought two years ago is still on the Energizer battery it shipped with.As for brands, I've pretty much completely switched to IKEA alkaline batteries. They used to be made by Varta, though they no longer carry any OEM info. But they seem to work well, and they're a fraction of the cost of name-brand alkalines. So even if they only lasted half as long they'd still be far cheaper, but I haven't found any perfomance issues with them at all. .

author: ali6x944
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 01:00:05 pm
content: I generally try to avoid the use of alkali cells because of their horrible leakage and crystallization problems...So I would rather use a rechargeable battery or carbon-zinc battery aka heavy duty batteries because they are less prone to those problems and for carbon-zinc batteries they are much cheaper that alkaline batteries.But it must be noted that the average capacity of the carbon-zinc batteries is a fraction of the poorest preforming alkaline...A good source of info in this subject is this website:http://rightbattery.com

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 01:24:56 pm
content: My early 90's Fluke 87 eats batteries for lunch (every 3 months or so). I rarely use it because I have multiple 34401's on the bench and it seems like every time I do power up the 87 it needs a battery.

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 02:34:29 pm
content: I notice that Duracell and Energizer cylindrical No-MH rechargeable batteries are both made in Japan (maybe by Panasonic/Sanyo?) and Energizer 9V alkaline batteries are made in Germany (by Varta?).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 02:47:06 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on March 25, 2017, 01:13:15 pmThink a minute. Is there anyotherreason that a battery could be drained unacceptably quickly? If so, why have you discounted the other reason?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 04:06:48 pm
content: Quote from: ali6x944 on March 26, 2017, 01:00:05 pmAlkaline batteries leak when deep-discharged (And even then, not all brands leak as often. Duracell is the worst in this regard.). As long as you remove them when empty, they're fine.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 04:29:24 pm
content: Quote from: amitchell on March 25, 2017, 01:57:44 pmThe EBL lithium batteries are great. I have 10 of them, and they all meet or exceed the rated 600mAh capacity. If you buy them on eBay, you can get them for $2-3 each.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 05:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: Jester on March 26, 2017, 01:24:56 pm@Jester,If you would like help troubleshooting this, start a new thread and I can offer suggestions on why this may be happening. The Fluke 80 series I should be drawing around 9uA when the rotary switch is in the off position.Seehttp://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-83-dmm-repair/

author: ali6x944
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 08:41:06 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 26, 2017, 04:06:48 pmsadly enough it is true, the most expensive leak the most!!!also how could Alkaline batteries leak? I mean why do they leak? what chemicals inside the cell could cause the leak?I know it is NH4Cl that dissolves away the Zn casing in Carbon-Zinc batteries, that's way the old batteries used to leak...but now it is some what leak resistant, I have not seen a catastrophically leaking carbon-zinc batteries in my life, especially because Panasonic batteries are well belt

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 08:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on March 26, 2017, 04:29:24 pmWhat output voltage do they have? (do not find a datasheet).2 cells so 6-8.4 V or more?with best regardsAndreas

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 09:08:47 pm
content: Quote from: Andreas on March 26, 2017, 08:56:08 pm8.4-8.5V charged, 6.0V cutoff

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 11:17:56 pm
content: Quote from: ali6x944 on March 26, 2017, 08:41:06 pmUnder certain circumstances chemical reactions inside an alkaline cell can produce gas bubbles which pressurize the inside of the cell and force electrolyte out through the seals.Zinc chloride cells do not produce gas bubbles in the same way, so as long as the cell or battery is contained within a sealed outer shell it will not generally leak.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2017, 11:43:02 pm
content: I was going to buy a few EBL lithium batteries, if most of their running voltage is only about 7.2V ( 2x3.6 ) I'm glad I didn't now!I settled for 250mAh long shelf life Ni-Mh from 7dayshop.com which are fine - so far.

author: Prehistoricman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 01:08:27 am
content: A lot of 9V batteries have 6 AAAA batteries inside. I took one apart and was transporting this string of small cells when one exploded out of my hand! I'd prefer them to leak slowly rather than quickly.It was probably a Duracell.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 01:24:21 am
content: Quote from: StillTrying on March 26, 2017, 11:43:02 pmI think that if you compare to a 6 cell NiMH battery, the EBL lithium will always have a higher voltage during discharge...

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 01:47:40 am
content: If whoever designed the meter chose an inadequate power source for their design, that doesn't transfer any blame to the battery itself. So long as it's delivering what it was designed to deliver, it's doing it's job.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 09:17:30 am
content: For comparing voltage from different types of 9V batteries I will suggest my comparator:http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9Vcomparator.phpIt includes most 9V chemistries and types, including 3 different LiIon batteries, Zinc-Carbon, Alkaline and both 7 & 8 cell NiMH

author: EndlessSummer
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 01:14:04 pm
content: Ahhh, yes....The thread is dead as the batteries it's about.It's the only one that came up in my google search for Carbon Zinc battery usage in the Fluke 87 series meters though.Does anyone happen to know the reason behind Fluke's specifying Carbon Zinc batteries for these meters?Thanks

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 01:41:26 pm
content: Quote from: EndlessSummer on February 23, 2019, 01:14:04 pmThey *allow* you to use not only Alkaline but Zinc-Carbon. User manual of 87V says:QuoteSpecifying NEDA A1604 w/o letter suffix means that you may use any type: Alkaline, Zinc-Carbon and Lithium (non-rechargeable).

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 06:43:40 pm
content: before blaming the battery it would be useful to ascertain that the meter has a hard on/off switch that completely cuts off the battery circuit. If not, you will have to measure the standby current.Years ago I had a cheap LCR meter that would eat batteries, even if I was not using it much. It had a soft "on" switch with an auto-off feature. The culprit turned out to be a leaky electrolytic capacitor that was continuously draining the battery 24/7...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 07:27:14 pm
content: If the battery in your meter is going flat in storage then there is likely something wrong with the meter.I often use the backlight on my Fluke 87 so I've been using LSD NiMH 9V batteries for years. The first one I got came from Harbor Freight and it works fine. More recently I've bought others from Amazon, I haven't bought disposable batteries in years.

author: DDunfield
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 10:11:11 pm
content: Quote from: richnormand on February 23, 2019, 06:43:40 pmThe presence of a physical ON/OFF switch does not always mean no "off" power drain. Sometimes this is because the designer wants to make sure the device can "do something" before powering down (or perhaps just power down things in the right order) - so the physical switch is still "soft". Not that uncommon.But I did run into a case that I just can't fathom!I got a little bluetooth camera/music remote powered by a CR2032 battery - handy while travelling. Used it on a trip, turned off the physical power switch and left it in my kit till the next time I traveled (about 6 months), and found it completely dead. I thought - ok, they give you a really crappy battery. Replaced it with a new/good cell, everything worked fine ... turn it off, and tried it again three months later and guess what! - it was dead!Took it apart to see if it was really a soft switch, and it wasn't - but what I found what that the power switch was SPDT, and in the OFF position, it placed a 10k resistor across the battery.3V/10k = 0.3ma - assuming 250mah capacity of a CR2032 that's 833 hours ... about 35 days ... the battery goes dead in just over one month.Quick swipe with an X-acto knife and now it does not go dead when turned off.Can anyone think of a reason why they intentionally would keep a 0.3ma drain on the battery?Dave

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 09:08:39 pm
content: I have a bunch of the EBL lithium batteries as well which I moved too when the AA and AAA Duracells kept leaking I went all Eneloops except for the 9V. Bought the EBL charger with them. They charge up to 8.2XX range for me. The fear I have is that they may do an angry Lithium move and explode. I have not heard or read of a 9V lithium battery doing this, but I wonder if it's because they are not widely distributed.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 01:07:14 am
content: I've been using the EBL 9 volt rechargeables for a few years now. They have paid for themselves many times over and I've not had any problems. I just charged a couple and fresh off the charger,NiMH = 10.15 voltsLi-Ion= 8.376 voltsThe difference in capacity between the two is obvious.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 01:37:14 am
content: I think it's very unlikely for a small battery like that to explode, there just isn't enough stored energy for a spectacular fireball as you can get with a large LiPo. I've deliberately abused a few old pouch cells in that size range, now granted they were tired which is why I was disposing of them but they still had some capacity. They puffed up like a balloon and spewed a bunch of smoke butI didn't get any flames.That said, I'd avoid charging them unattended or near flammable materials. When lithium battery fires do happen it's most often while charging.

author: bluey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 11:50:16 pm
content: My Fluke 87 V1 runs fine on 8.4V Nimh, Toshiba.

author: ali6x944
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 11:30:43 am
content: this might be of interest:

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 12:50:16 pm
content: There are two ways to make 9V batteries with LiIon cell:1) A single cell or parallel cells (good for USB charging).2) Two cells in series (Can be (more or less) charged on a standard 9V charger).I have reviewed both types and done a tear down:https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VLiIon%20UK.html

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 12:30:22 am
content: I see the ugly of alkaline batteries has turned up again. What I'm wondering is what it would take for a company like Fluke, Keysight or whomever to switch over to 16850 cells? Far too many instruments end up in the recycle bin due to alkaline batteries leaking. I realize that the various 16850 chemistries complicate the usage some what but properly sized they should be a better solution than alkalines.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 02:51:08 am
content: if you have a suspicious instrument connect it to a lab power supply to see what it draws when its turned off. Sometimes things break so they use more current then normal and they will kill any battery.. it might just need a repairSo say you have a 1500mAH cell. If its drawing 1mA quiescent you will run it out in less then a year and have it explode. 100 microamps will drain it in 1.5 years, if you go by the REALLY basic explanation. Some designers don't know what their doing here. There is a limit of course because the battery has self discharge and you can only push the envelope so much before it becomes useless to lower current further. If you leave it and drains a battery to nothing, of course it will leak. IMO 18650 is a bazooka solution. It might just hide the problem.https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/take-advantage-of-ic-load-switches-features-to-safely-minimize-power-consumptionA good design of a soft switch instrument should only draw like <5uA.Keep this in mind when you buy battery powered devices off ebay. They might be selling it because it started to kill batteries fast and it pissed someone off. It is a super big trap because people might just do a quick test with a power supply that has a 1mA resolution.. and 0 does not mean much here when talking batteries. If its drawing 1mA, it should kill the battery in only 2 months.

author: Pawelr98
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 04:00:06 am
content: For me two small Lipo cells in series is the way to go.8.4V full, 6V flat.Just around what is needed for a 9V battery replacement.Or with some devices I just use 2x18650 in a bracket, attatched to the device.Put it behind the meter, isolate it good and it won't die for a while.I use this method with tired (sub-1000mAh) 18650 cells and cheap meters that usually go through 9V batteries rather quickly.Generally speaking 14500 format would have been better for handheld meters.No need to even change cases as it's the same format as standard AA battery.There are even AAA sizes li-ion cells available (10440).

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 04:56:09 am
content: The analogy I get between 18650s used in lower power devices is like a word processor now requiring a super computer to run

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 11:22:45 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on March 25, 2017, 01:13:15 pmWe solved this problem in the 1980s with multimeters which operated for 2000 hours or more using the same 9V batteries that we have today. It is not the battery's fault that you bought a junk multimeter.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 11:39:24 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 25, 2017, 01:29:32 pmQuoting my self, Panasonic ? No more !Details ->HERE

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 12:07:42 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 06, 2020, 11:22:45 amOK how do I return my Tektronix DMM249? Obviously Duracell makes a quality battery, so that's not the problem...Ever since using alkaline batteries from the dollar store, my multimeter secretly redesigned itself at night using components it found on the floor. No more dead 0V batteries.

author: Pawelr98
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 07:52:54 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 06, 2020, 04:56:09 amI just use 18650 cells for everything that may require a battery change too often.18650 cells are plentiful and inexpensive.Electronic projects, radios, multimeters.On low power devices I just run them for months , throw them on a charger once in a while (no matter what charge) and swap them with other devices that require more power.Each cells should see more/less the same wear over time.Even an analog oscilloscope I can run on 4x18650 + boost converter.Scope requires around 500mA at 28V.Comes handy in places where there's no mains available or when measuring mains-referenced voltages of various power converters (welders, VFD).It also comes with a DMM function.I'm the kind of person who solders an AA battery socket in the place of a button cell.No need to keep around few types of batteries, low power device basically runs forever and replacement battery can be purchased anywhere.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 12:37:33 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on July 06, 2020, 12:07:42 pmAnd I have a Tektronix DMM916 but these are later instruments which have shorter battery life.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2020, 07:14:00 pm
content: Interesting, that Panasonic battery uses a plastic top end and metal bottom cap. Most 9V batteries use fiber for one or both of these, I think that absorbs a fair amount of any electrolyte that leaks.

author: teddychn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 03:58:52 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 26, 2017, 04:06:48 pmActually I bumped into a crystallized battery issues with unused Toshiba and Duracell's AAA akaline batteries. Both of them were slept in the drawer for less than a year.So I guess this may not be a deep-discharged issue.When I was a child. The cheap carbon-zinc battery always got leak problem. But I didn't see any similar problems on the akaline batteris which came out later. But the situationare reversed now. I'm not pretty sure whether the carbon-zinc batteries are more stable than the akaline ones nowadays. Because I replaced most of my AA/AAA batteries torechargeable NiMH ones.Since my experience is that some very old devices never get battery leakage issue, and many new devices always get this kind of proble. My suspection is that the leakage issuemight relate to the chemical reaction between batteries to some metal contacts.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 04:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: Pawelr98 on July 06, 2020, 07:52:54 pmbazooka vs fly

author: teddychn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2020, 10:11:45 pm
content: Quote from: ali6x944 on July 05, 2020, 11:30:43 amI'm really intrested in this kind of Lithium rechargeable battery. Although just about all of them asserted "low self-discharging",but I have been hesitating to buy one. Becasue considering the boost converter's idle current could be more than 50uA. Onestill need to tacke care of over-dischaging situation. Unless the battery management circuitry are included.Is there anyone has one and knows the ball-park of self discharge time.