Keysight U173xC series LCR meter shows ESR and capacity at once? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 02:33:12 pm
content: Please can owner of that meter verify if ESR is displayed at the same time as capacitance?I hate switching functions while routine testing electrolytic caps...Is that meter able to measure ESR "in-circuit"?

author: sd
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 04:09:15 pm
content: For the U1733C at least I don't think ESR and capacitance can be displayed at the same time. The meter has dual display, the main display can show Z/L/C/R while the secondary one can show D/Q/? . Better check the manual though.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 04:35:52 pm
content: I do not believe it can, the secondary display is only for D, Q and phase, you have to switch between capacitance and ESR on the primary display.I just tried it on my U1733C

author: electrolust
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 04:46:37 pm
content: Confirmed, it cannot. Is there a HH LCR meter that does have simultaneous ESR display?

author: rjardina
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 09:28:18 pm
content: Quote from: electrolust on May 30, 2017, 04:46:37 pmExtech LCR200, & DER EE DE-5000 can?

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 01:45:04 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies.Extech LCR200: nice I could buy at Conrad in Germany for about 250 Euro (~250 $).DER EE DE-5000: Not bad in the specs (0.3% for R and C, best of), 120$ at ebay...What do you think, is Keysight better than Extech, and Extech better than DER EE?Is the specs of DER EE (and Extech) real or just wishful thinking?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 01:51:43 pm
content: Smart tweezers do C and ESR simultaneously and will stretch over a reasonable sized TH cap leads too.If you do any SMD they could be worth considering.http://www.smarttweezers.com/st5s/

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 02:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 01, 2017, 01:51:43 pmThanks. 300$ is much money for such a little toy...

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 02:28:38 pm
content: Quote from: carl_lab on June 01, 2017, 01:45:04 pmI had a DER DE-5000, the Extech and a few others of handheld LCR meters and sold them all, after I got the Keysight U1733CI don't think there is any other handheld that can beat the Keysight in functionality, accuracy and quality.It is just that the price is pretty high for the U1733C, 500 Euro + Tax in Germany.

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 02:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 01, 2017, 02:28:38 pmWhy have you sold them?

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 03:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 01, 2017, 02:28:38 pmThe U1733C is Chinese garbage with an expensive Keysight badge.Functionality is rubbish, every firmware version buggy until they stopped providing firmware updates because the garbage firmware update system bricked too many meters.The OP probably doesn't understand that ESR, D, Q, and theta are just different ways of displaying the same measurement result. If the meter wasn't such utter garbage it would just change the display when you press the ESR button, but, it forces an auto range cycle and incredibly annoyingly deletes any single point calibration, the calibration you had to do because you were trying to measure small ESRs without 4 terminals. You can't switch between ZLRC without auto ranging and loosing calibration either. The firmware was specified/designed by idiots.Maybe the current firmware is less garbage, but, without support for firmware update I will never know.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 03:19:16 pm
content: Quote from: carl_lab on June 01, 2017, 02:54:05 pmI have several high end bench-top LCR instruments and only need one handheld LCR meter for traveling.In addition, I have the smart tweezers that work really well for some applications, especially SMD selection and in circuit measurement.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 03:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: Hensingler on June 01, 2017, 03:08:26 pmWell, opinions obviously differ a lot, when it comes to the favorite lab instrument.To be honest, I found the DER DE-5000 and the Extech belong to the category of garbage quality, compared to other quality handheld instruments I have. But others have raved about those two.Somehow the Keysight U1733C works really well for measurements I have to do when I am traveling to customers and use this instrument for mainly L and C verification.I have not touched the FW that was installed when I bought this U1733C and I have no issues at all.

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 03:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 01, 2017, 03:25:56 pmThere is no opinion about it the U1733C is garbage (unless they have better firmware that I can't get). You just haven't noticed in your limited usage. Have you ever done a single point O/S calibration?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 03:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: Hensingler on June 01, 2017, 03:33:19 pmI bought my U1733C at the end of 2016, not sure what FW is installed.QuoteNo!Please explain what you do?I do a lot of calibration work for L and C and for that purpose I only use calibrated bench top LCR instruments.

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 04:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 01, 2017, 03:40:44 pmAnd presumably do open and short calibration on your test leads and jigs every time you use them.Holding down the Ai button while powering on shows firmware version, mine 00.27 which I believe was last version you could download and IMO worse than the previous version but the stupid klunky firmware upgrade system would not allow a newer version to be replaced.For a single point O/S calibration with what you want to measure connected to establish the range hold down the Cal button - you will then be prompted to open the test leads (and press Cal) then short the test leads (and press Cal). You should now have a fresh offset/stray calibration of meter and leads for that range and frequency which is required to make the most accurate measurement.With 00.27 firmware some range/frequency single point calibrations are just garbage like 2000uF @ 100Hz after which the capacitance reading is just noise. If it did work the annoyance is the calibration is lost as soon as you change measurement display mode like ZLCR or ESR. If you wanted to accurately measure capacitance and ESR you would have to do a calibration in each mode which is stupid.You can also do and store and use user calibration of all ranges/frequencies which takes longer and doesn't seem to be bugged.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 06:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: electrolust on May 30, 2017, 04:46:37 pmNot sure if it qualifies as a HH, but Mastech MS5308 can do that, it's a decent meter as long as you don't use the included power supply (search the forum).Price about $150

author: electrolust
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 08:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: Hensingler on June 01, 2017, 03:08:26 pmMy firmware is 0.24. I bought it on the Fry's 50% off clearance sale, it's NOS Agilent branded. (Info so you can date the firmware rev.)I didn't try ESR, but I can switch to DCR and back to L, and it doesn't go out of manual ranging mode. Usually. Sometimes it does, I can't yet figure out how to repro.How would you know if you lost the cal? There's no indication on the display that calibration is in effect. Do you figure it by seeing the C value change, after you switch from auto-range back to manual range?

author: sd
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 02:59:43 am
content: Regarding the U1733C OS active calibration, there is an indication in the upper left corner.If you just power on the meter it will display either "OS-Factory" or "OS-User". Pressing the "Cal" button and doing a quick O/S calibration will make that OS-Factory/OS-User symbol disappear.Switching measurement mode (Z/L/C/R) or the frequency does bring back the "OS-Factory"/"OS-User" calibration.Regarding OS-User calibration, you can run this by holding button "Cal" pressed and turning on the meter. This will take significantly longer than the quick calibration as it will calibrate for all the ranges, frequencies etc.From the meter setup menu (hold "ZLCR" button when powering on the meter) you can select the default OS calibration, either OS-Factory or OS-User.This is described in the manual:"The corrections for the OS-Factory and OS-User arepre- stored in the LCR meter. They are both calibrated at theterminal ends.You can set the LCR meter to start up using the OS-Factoryor OS-User open/short correction from the Setup menu (seepage 60).There are three types of open/short corrections available:• OS- Factory: Re- calibration requires you to enter the LCRmeter’s calibration mode (security code protected)• OS- User: Re- calibration is possible through the power- onoptions (see page 10).• Quick range: Single range and frequency as required bypressing and holding the "Cal" key for more than 1 second"I've never had any problems with the meter showing garbage after quick calibration. My meter is running FW version 03.06.

author: electrolust
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 07:54:04 am
content: Quote from: sd on June 03, 2017, 02:59:43 amMine (FW ver 0.24) doesn't do that.The OS symbol remains as it was at startup, at all times. (Except during ESR/DCR when it is always absent.)No wonder I couldn't make sense of these labels based on the manual.EDIT: correction, mine does operate this way. It also loses the cal when you press pretty much any button. It's pretty unusable.

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2017, 01:58:05 am
content: Quote from: sd on June 03, 2017, 02:59:43 amZLCR ESR D Q and theta are not measurement modes, they are display modes. The measurement is exactly the same which is why auto ranging and loosing calibration is so dumb. You can cycle round D, Q and theta instantly but not ZLCR or ESR which is idiotic. And lol at a special ESR mode anyway which is for people too dumb to understand ESR is just R in a series equivalent circuit.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 12:02:49 am
content: This tester is really cool, ESR & capacitance at the same time....http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 07:44:59 am
content: I have one of these Peak Electronics ESR meters and it works really well and fast for ESR measurements.Especially "in circuit" measurements.

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:43:21 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 09, 2017, 07:44:59 amWould you prefer PEAK to U173xC series for trouble-shooting?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 05:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: carl_lab on June 09, 2017, 10:43:21 amFor troubleshooting electrolytic capacitors and get a fast reliable reading, definitely the PEAK Electronics ESR + meter. But keep in mind, it is limited to do only that!

author: tigr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 08:09:22 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 09, 2017, 07:44:59 amYes.Very good device.I would buy a new version with a higher resolution.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:29:53 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 09, 2017, 05:33:17 pmNeither of these. Get CapacitorWizard for ESR and use multimeter for capacitance. Analog ESR meter is way faster for troubleshooting purposes.

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 06:02:53 am
content: Quote from: zaoka on June 09, 2017, 11:29:53 pmhttp://midwestdevices.com/That one? 200$...Can't you built it yourself for a few bucks? AC generator+ AC current indicator?This one doesn't look bad:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/5-transistor-esr-meter-design/

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 06:22:43 am
content: Quote from: carl_lab on June 14, 2017, 06:02:53 amhere you go :http://kripton2035.free.fr/esr-repository.htmlwarning: problem actually with hosting, does not work from some countries (but going better ...)

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 06:29:01 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on June 14, 2017, 06:22:43 amExactly - cannot open your link...

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:26:27 pm
content: I'm now waiting for another hosting to store a copy there ... but it's seems long to make !

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 02:30:27 am
content: ESR meter should be able to measure up to 50ohm and that scale from 0 to 2ohm uses 1/3 of the scale..If you make money fixing stuff that CapacitorWizard will get paid off from 1 or 2 repairs and will last you for years..

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:51:22 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on June 14, 2017, 12:26:27 pmjust FYI my ESR site clone is online now. see signature.use the one that can be seen in your country.