Analog multimeters, are they still useful? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jonslab
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 02:39:43 am
content: Is there anyone who still uses analog multimeters?

author: Azhar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 02:42:43 am
content: Analogue multimeters have their own charm!

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 02:43:19 am
content: I'm sure there are people who do, but in my opinion, you'd have to be desperate or willfully obstinate to bother with one these days.

author: jonslab
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 02:47:39 am
content: I have a cheap digital multimeter by I always wanted one of these old brick-like analog meters.I know maybe their are not as accurate as a digital ones, but I think analog they look nice on the workbench.

author: Technomaniac
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 03:27:02 am
content: When digital multimeters first appeared here in Oz in the sixties, I bought one immediately. It was Advance, I think DMM1 or DMM2. I took it to work for my coworker technicians to look at, and after using it for a few months, the conclusion reached was that they were very good for measuring stable rail voltages and setting the output voltages of power supplies. I have had many others over the years since, and had many fail for no good reason. They are pretty useless measuring a varying signal, but are OK for other things. I build a bit of electronic gear, and often use several AVOmeters circa Model 8. I bought my first one of these around the same time as the first DMM as much of the two way radio gear we were servicing specified that model for test point measurements for RF alignments. But in recent years as they are now quite expensive to buy new, and they were still available a couple of years ago, people wouldn't be using them so much. But as they have fallen out of favour, I have been gathering them up for next to nothing, and it is common for me to have three or four of them connected to a circuit I am working on, while a DMM wont respond as quickly and can be harder to read when the voltage is varying a bit. DMMs are now inexpensive and they certainly take less bench space. I bought three about two years ago, I have one that still works. None of my analogue AVOs have ever failed except for terminals needing polishing. I have a couple of dead AVO DMMs from garage sales or swap meets but haven't had the time to get them working. And DMMs don't like the heat, or sunlight when they have LCD displays.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 03:50:16 am
content: I no longer have an analog VOM.DMMs definitely have a problem with reading fairly rapidly varying voltages such as the results of an adjustment, as the bargraphs are a bit slow to react.For such voltages, I usually use an analog Oscilloscope, as it is easy to watch the variation when dc coupled.If I really want to look at a meter scale, I have a HP 410C.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 03:51:54 am
content: I started out on analog meters and still have a couple, but never use them. I have had the opposite experience of a prior poster, with multiple analog meter failures and only a couple digital meter failures.A huge advantage of digital is the high input impedance, which means you seldom have to worry about loading. If you are prone to dropping your meter or knocking it off the bench you will find that the sensitive meter movement really doesn't like that. And it takes much more effort to get accuracy from the analog meter. From zeroing the pointer, through using the not always included mirror scale to assure that your sight line is perpendicular to the needle and on through making sure there is no static charge on the meter window there are many details required.Fast changing signals can be easier to understand on analog, but many digital units have a bar graph indicator that works as well.The bottom line is as I opened this post. I've sold or thrown away most of my analog meters, and haven't used the ones I still have for years.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 04:06:05 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 29, 2020, 03:51:54 amHardly unique to DMMs ----'scopes, VTVMs, FET VOMs all offer this.QuoteAccuracy to a few %, (or often, worse) is usually all that is required.QuoteSorry, but I haven't seen one that does, which is strange, because rendered "analog" displays on ham radios seem to have no problem with fast changing signals.Quote

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 04:12:21 am
content: the only problem is if you have alot of equipment you need to make a rounded work bench to read everything decently, I have a problem with the mirrored anti paralax strip requiring me to get up for one of my meters because it only fits in the corner of a work bench.If you have a work bench thats not crowded like pink floyds wall, and can set them up at the proper angles, there is often no reason to need more resolution for lots of design workalso infinitely less annoying if you forget to turn it off or need to work on something else while the equipment is still powered. A little creepy if some dial decides to move (oscillation) on its own while its in the corner of your eye.They strike an analogy to me with carpenters tools.. all you need is a ruler with a scale in most cases and there are only small benefits (or no benefits) and risk involved with going more expensive then say a square, particularly if you use sand paper afterwards. I tried using a machinists caliper when working with wood and now I just go for the square, it makes sense.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 04:23:31 am
content: ... <wearing TEA badge:ON> ...What ? Useful ? I still love my Simpsons ...... duck n run ...

author: jdutky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 04:37:08 am
content: Here's an informative comparison of various DMMs with bar graphs and their response to AC signals

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 04:41:50 am
content: Analog meters are good when you need to measure voltage and current and you don't want to worry about battery life. They are also useful for testing LEDs since their output voltage is enough to light them up. I have a Sanwa YX-360-TRn cheap Chinese knock-off that indicates the output voltage acrossand the currentflowing through the DUT when you are measuring resistance or continuity.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 05:27:47 am
content: Analog multimeters have charm, especially vintage Simpsons and Tripletts, and sometimes newer ones too. I've tried to like them and have several. The reality is they are a little are hard to read at a glance - first you have to figure out what scale you are on, and sometimes it's similar with setting the selector knob too. Once you have the selector knob set and you have figured out what scale you should be reading you will find that if the reading isn't in the center of one-third or so of the scale that the reading isn't as accurate as if you were in the center third; as the reading moves toward the edges the accuracy decreases. To fight this you might also spend some time adjusting the meter with a screw driver. Lookout for any signs of OCD as you adjust and re-adjust, or just sign-up for TEA therapy sessions if you continually find yourself taking much longer to get a reading than with a DMM. Once in a blue moon (or probably less often) you might come up with a good reason to use an analog meter, or maybe never. Long story short, there is a reason DMMs are everywhere and analog multimeters are mostly on eBay or in drawers or in storage boxes. Trust me, I really, really wanted to like them and I still have a sense of nostalgia for them but then frankly I like everything that has a VU-meter or almost any meter with a needle. I like toggle switches and other old stuff too but at some point utility trumps vintage unless you just want to collect to collect. Net, net: even if analog multimeters are each $15 (or more) pretty soon you could have put $100 toward a DMM or something else. Maybe you can buy just one and call it day but watch out for the potato chip deal where you can't eat just one, especially thinking the next one might be a little better. I'd say unless you find something that your DMM cannot do that you are very sure an analog multimeter will do (there are some legitimate use cases), or unless you have all the DMMs you want and everything else you want for your bench, forget the analog multimeter.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 06:05:37 am
content: Ok, after posting my comments above I noticed this and couldn't resist watching .....https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/vu-meter-driver-circuit-modification/I really do like analog meters, maybe I just haven't found the right application

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 06:23:25 am
content: Analog is definitely good for reading values that change rapidly. My most used power supply has analog meters. I may eventually swap in a digital meter for voltage, but I actually prefer the analog meter for amps.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 06:41:46 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 29, 2020, 05:27:47 amAs per the slogan of one of the local pharmacies went, back in the day---------"We dispense with accuracy."There is a definite accuracy fetish amongst the denizens of this thread, rather reminiscent of theologians arguing over "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin".Those of us who were brought up on multimeters where we had to estimate & set the required range beforehand like VOMS & most early DMMs would get our guess pretty much "spot on".If we expect to see say, 5 v on the 10v FSD range of a VOM, & we see the needle slammed up against the RH stop, or right down near the LH side of the scale, we know we have problems, so will "zoom in " to a better scale by flicking up or down a range.We do it automatically, just as an experienced manual transmission car driver keeps the vehicle in the correct gear.

author: andy3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 07:00:06 am
content: I still use these along with an Aneng 8009.

author: Keith956
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 07:01:00 am
content: Analog meters compared to digital ones are like slide rules compared to calculators. Who uses a slide rule these days? (cue someone to put their hand up)About the only area where analog ones are more applicable is where you need a zero null - like in a bridge - where the analog one is easier to read and doesn't need high accuracy. For varying voltages, a scope is the right tool.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 07:22:11 am
content: Yes, I still have slide rules left over from my college years. The HP35 calculator was released during my senior year and I couldn't afford one anyway.As to V-O-M, yes, I have a couple of Simpson 260s.Suppose you have a huge diesel generator and it doesn't start, You measure the battery open circuit voltage and everything seems fine. But, if you put the V-O-M across the battery and crank it, you can see the output voltage crash. It is easier to see this on a V-O-M than most DMMs. Even those DMMs that have a bar graph often have very slow response time.Yes, of course a DMM will work but I prefer to use a V-O-M for this type of testing.Sure, I have a bunch of handheld DMMs and a couple of bench style meters but there will always be room for my 260s. I might even have my Heathkit DMM around here somewhere. I have had it for more than 60 years and I'm not inclined to get rid of it.My Heathkit Vacuum Tube Volt Meter probably is obsolete but it was pretty nice when I built it way back when.ETA:I bought another inexpensive V-O-M a while back. It's pretty nice and it has a very bright screen light:https://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-TP7244L-7-Function-Multimeter-Protective/dp/B00MI6T0IW

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 07:42:29 am
content: I still use one occasionally as a 2nd meter or if closer at hand.The analog meter is nice that one does not have to worry much about the batteries (more like checking for leakage, not that they would run empty).Most of the tasks don't need high accuracy and the analog meter is good enough. Still if I have both the digital and analog meter at hand I usually prefer the digital one.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 07:46:34 am
content: Analog meters.. don't need no stinking batteries to measure voltage or current. And you can read them in bright sunlight.Still useful? Yes.Not enough room on your bench? That's not an analog meter problem.Plus watching the needle bounce is entertainment itself.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 08:02:48 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 29, 2020, 07:22:11 amthe nice thing here is that you can get a good estimate on that dip, no need for a scope. I know that many DMM these days have negative and positive peak capabilities but frankly they are a pain to use. As for bar graphs on DMM's none of them are even remotely similar in behavior to a moving needle on an analog meter.This discussion is related to the discussion of resolution on the new EEVBlog multimeter. Often all that resolution causes more harm than good. Some people seem to have an obsession with high resolution and precision. but there has to be a point to support such. Sometimes a tech is better off having a selection of tools to enable using the right tool for the job.It is sort of like the mechanical world where there are dozens of hammer sizes and types available. You can use a 5 pound engineers hammer to dire a tack but you might be a lot more productive with a tack hammer. More importantly using the right tool avoid self harm. Self harm with a digital multimeter is often getting hung up on details that don't matter.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 08:12:28 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on October 29, 2020, 08:02:48 amThis is one of the questions on the TEA assessment:“Do you find yourself doing self harm with a digital multimeter?”

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 08:28:42 am
content: Are analog multimeters still useful?Not in my home lab, but there might be some specialized uses.One that comes to mind is checking inrush current on a power circuit, where the "kick" of the meter movement gives you information about the load.Telephone exchanges used this to good effect, back in the day. By briefly reversing the -48 V exchange battery polarity to a telephone line, and watching an analog meter respond to the line current transient, you could tell whether a line had a phone connected or not, and roughly how many phones were connected. In effect you were testing the line + phone capacitance.You could also tell whether a line was short (less than a few km) or long (tens of km) - some long lines were in use for special purposes. So if you in the exchange and testing a line, but didn't see the expected meter kick, chances were you were testing the wrong line.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 08:44:31 am
content: Quote from: jonslab on October 29, 2020, 02:39:43 amThey are sufficient for many purposes.If you just want to quickly and crudely check several voltages, they have the advantage that you observe howfastthe needlestartsto move, and you can do that out of the corner of your eye without taking your eyes off the probes.Where you need to rapidly scan many displays to find which are abnormal, they are preferred. That's why such displays are still found in many aircraft.

author: Calambres
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 09:13:46 am
content: I use mine when aligning radio receivers. DMMs are useless for this.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 10:03:09 am
content: I find my analog multimeter handy for doing adjustments with potentiometers.The distance from where the needle is, and where it should be has a direct relation with how far the pot needs to be turned. This could also be done with a DMM with Bar Graph, but I do not have that, and a analog meter has higher resolution then the bar graph. (Unless you go back to interpreting numbers).I also use my analog multimeter for long time monitoring of voltages and currents. It does not need batteries, never turns itself off and it never beeps at you.My analog meter was not very expensive, just 1 or 2 steps above the cheapest (those have almost no ranges). I also modified it a bit, so I can directly put "Dupont Wires" into it, which is convenient for breadboard work.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 11:50:40 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on October 29, 2020, 08:28:42 amgood examples of legit use cases

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 11:51:53 am
content: Quote from: Calambres on October 29, 2020, 09:13:46 amgood example of legit use case

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 11:58:42 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on October 29, 2020, 10:03:09 amgood example of legit use casesuse case trend seems to be that they work well for helping to identify ~slow moving trends - over ranges that can be smaller to larger depending on the scale used

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 01:50:12 pm
content: A proper analog meter is essential when adjusting a bridge for null--although normal VOMs do not have a zero-center movement. The latency in a DVM prevents finding a good null. I also use an analog CRO when adjusting AC bridges for null.

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 01:50:43 pm
content: .

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 03:21:35 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 29, 2020, 08:44:31 amIn the electrical substation business, it is not unheard of to fashion an arrow of red electrical tape and attach it to the front of a meter to indicate where the needle should be for normal operation. Possibly even two arrows to indicate a range. We don't care about 3 decimal places, we just need to know the voltage is 'about' right and the current is in a 'range' of expected readings.One of the laughing points of high digit count DMMs is the circuit being probed uses 5% resistors and -20%..+80% capacitors with staggering temperature coefficients. Who cares about digits? Is the reading 'about' right is the best you can get.The first DMM I used (circa '72) was line powered. I had to find a working outlet to use my DMM. Or I could just use my Triplett 630 V-O-M.

author: akimpowerscr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 04:17:11 pm
content: In the past I used a Hioki AF105 and an AVO 9 Mark IV but in 1992 I was able to buy a used Fluke 73 .... which I still use although since then I have bought more other Fluke multimeters like the 87 V.As I was working in a dangerous field (high power electronics), the digital multimeter gave me a security that I did not have with analog multimeters. (with the 10A current input blocked with a piece of insulation!)I always have a few analog multimeters (Avometer 9 Mark IV, Hansen M100 and Triplett 630-NA) useful for measuring 2Kv voltages that are found in analog osciloscopes or for currents up to 10 AMany digital multimeters cannot withstand 10A constantly and there is a risk of blowing an expensive and hard to find fuse.

author: Calambres
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 05:53:20 pm
content: Quote from: emece67 on October 29, 2020, 01:50:43 pmThe ICE 680R is an excellent analog multimeter.Minehas served me well for more than 40 years and it's still alive and kickin'...Quote from: emece67 on October 29, 2020, 01:50:43 pmThose 3V cells are readily available in ebay. I bought one recently.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 10:58:57 am
content: Quote from: Calambres on October 29, 2020, 05:53:20 pmSwell, just after trying to talk myself and others out of needing any more analog multimeters now I need one of these:https://www.amazon.it/MULTIMETRO-ANALOGICO-MOD-680R/dp/B00B22CP261-800-CALL-TEA

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 12:17:31 pm
content: These still work, do you think your DMM will be alive in 100 yrs?

author: Calambres
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 12:33:31 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 30, 2020, 10:58:57 amWay too expensive! It had a steep price back in its heyday but now you can find it easily for half that price.Still a very good instrument for sure!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 03:27:36 pm
content: One of the nice uses for Analog multimeters is to find out transformer winding polarity. Something I mentionedhereI also started my career on my dad's ICE 680R - nice meter, but mine is due for cleanup and tuning. My dad adapted a CR123 battery and it works quite alright.I personally like their charm and being self-powered.Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on October 30, 2020, 12:17:31 pmWell, TBH I have a 41 years old bench meter (Keithley 191) that I don't really see it going anywhere. It will require some maintenance, especially due to aging electrolytics, but apart from that everything else is still in quite good shape. Of course, if a nuclear EMP event takes place, than we go back to analog.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 04:14:13 pm
content: They are neat looking, and have a few niche advantages such as monitoring rapidly changing voltages and the fact that they will work without batteries to measure everything but resistance. I no longer have one though, digital does everything I need it to do. I do however like analog panel meters and prefer those over digital in most cases.

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 05:24:04 pm
content: .

author: Calambres
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 08:00:58 am
content: Yes, that one from Amazon a 680-R series VII. My 680-R is an older series 3 model.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 07:16:31 pm
content: this is the kind of thing that helps grow your analog multimeter family

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 07:44:31 pm
content: For me there are two different questions here: analog meters and analog displays. I sometimes replaced the whole electronics in old lab instruments but always keeping the original analog milliampmeters as primary displays even if there are ADCs and everything is connected to a computer. The thing is when I have to survey half a dozen or more displays during an experiment I don't like digital displays because it takes me much longer to integrate all the readings, it seems my brain remains analog in nature. I think I couldn't fly a plane with an all-digital instrument panel (if such existed, I don't know any).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 08:03:36 pm
content: Quote from: pwlps on October 31, 2020, 07:44:31 pmBasically... Yes.But I was taught to fly a glider with zero instruments, on the principle that they fail and you still have to land. And yes, I had had failures.Obviously the altimeter is pretty useless except if you are landing where you launched.The vario isn't essential, but the battery can fail and the orifices can be blocked.The ASI is important since eyou are often flying near stall or Vne speeds. Traditionally they are put out of action by a bumble bee or rain, but in my case it was a rubber flap.Never had an artificial horizon since I never did cloud flying; I used the real one.As for the radio... What radio?

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 08:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 31, 2020, 08:03:36 pmThis is why I don't understand why in most schools only the power-assisted approach is taught, here the ASI indication is important. For power-off approach you don't really need it.But maybe I'm going slightly off-topic here.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 11:07:48 pm
content: Quote from: pwlps on October 31, 2020, 08:35:28 pmWhy on earth don't you need it?ASI is just as important in a engine-off approach. Too slow => stall/spin, whether powered by hydrocarbons or gravity.

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 11:20:58 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 31, 2020, 11:07:48 pmThis is really off topic but I will answer the question. I mean I can safely land with engine off without even looking at ASI because I only slow down right before touching the runway, before that I fly well above Vs so I can easily feel the speed on the yoke response.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 03:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: pwlps on November 01, 2020, 11:20:58 amPrecisely. There is no difference between a powered and unpowered landing w.r.t. needing an ASI.However in a glider it is normal to fly close to stall speed,exceptduring the approach since that's when you are more likely to suffer bad consequences from windshear or gusts.

author: jerryk1234
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 03:27:18 am
content: Analog meters are still the best for peaking & tweaking. And something like an HP410B has a FAR higher input impedance than any ordinary DMM. Which comes in handy for example troubleshooting the AGC in a tube receiver.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 07:00:37 am
content: I just thought of this because of a recent project:While I don’t think (ordinary) analog VOMs have a lot of uses anymore, there’s definitely a place for analog panel meters: when you need apassivevoltage or current display that works without its own power supply.I recently used one in a project that has up to 40kV applied to some electrodes. In addition to the quick discharge circuit in the HV power supply, I added a redundant discharge circuit that integrates an analog panel meter. The 100uA discharge resistors are connected in series with a 100uA panel meter for which I made a custom scale. This provides an extra voltage display in addition to the digital display on the power supply.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 07:15:18 am
content: I inherited an MTM Vielfachmesser III (Made in GDR) analog multimeter about 15 years ago, now, as I am 37, still using it. My main driver is a bench DMM, granted, but when I want to measure something on the spot (then it is usually a less critical measurement anyway), I reach for my trusty old MTM 99% of time, while my kids are happy to test the continuity on my spare DMM in the meantime...

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 08:05:03 am
content: Quote from: jonslab on October 29, 2020, 02:39:43 amHi,Despite the better precision of digital meters analog meters are still useful and have their advantages.For one thing, they do NOT require batteries. This can be an important feature. If you want a digital meter that does not require batteries you have to get a bench meter that plugs into the wall, or get a battery adapter or something else that plugs into the wall.Another use is when you want faster response. Many analog meters can respond faster than digital meters, and some digital meters can take 3 to 5 seconds just to get one reading as the meter digits start to stabilize.An example is if you want to test your car battery when you start the car to see how low the battery voltage drops when the engine first starts to turn over. A cheap analog panel meter will jump right down to the lower voltage when the engine start to turn while a digital meter will just start to change and probably won't catch the lowest voltage as the engine starts running, but then it's too late.It's true you can get an oscilloscope for this and that would work even better, but that's not a meter that's a different instrument.Then there is the antique thing. I have an old Westinghouse panel meter that measures current, the face is 10 inches in diameter. God only knows when it was first made. I don't actually use it anymore, but it's pretty cool. You can see how they made things back then and compare to how they make things now. I wonder if anything we have now like digital meters will last 100 years like this old meter would. It's doubtful.So, chalk up another advantage: longevity.I also had an old Simpson multimeter, and an old Radio Shack meter which I was sorry I threw out because it had a special dual range feature and FET input stage, so it was high impedance even though an analog multimeter.Many devices have their own niche not just analog meters.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 08:13:57 am
content: Not needing a battery is big plus. There is also no need for a turn on / off. So they can be handy to keep connected to check a current / voltage all the time.No need for battery is also a plus for a 2nd / 3rd meter that is seldom used, but nice to have, so one has to run less or take the normal meter out of a circuit.There are also fast reacting digital meters (though not so much portable ones) - the limit here is more how fast one can read the number(s).

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 10:30:35 am
content: Quote from: MrAl on June 11, 2024, 08:05:03 amIt depends on the analog multimeter. One of mine is FET VOM, which has a 10M input resistance. It's the equivalent of a VTVM, and so good for low voltage high impedance circuits, but it needs a 9V battery. But mostly analog multimeters don't need a battery for voltage and current, which can be a definite advantage. Some of the cheaper digital DMMs gobble up batteries.They are better for peaking adjustments. You can of course use an analog scope for that. A lot of vintage kit specified voltages measured with a 20kOhm/volt meter and you may get different results if you use anything else. Note that analog VOMs had various figures of merit, from 1kOhm/volt or less to 100kOhm/volt. 20kOhm/volt was typical for a quality VOM 50 years plus back. Some analog VOMs have a voltage range going well over 1kV, which can be useful.With some things, such as panel meters, they are plenty good enough, and you don't want the extra complexity of arranging the supply for a digital panel meter.As for analog meters lasting - well sort of. They are more delicate and don't like drops a digital meter would cope with easily. Precision resistors can drift with time, especially the ones produced decades back. Magnets weaken with years of aging.I've got half a dozen analog multimeters. I don't use them much but I'm glad I've got them.

author: ftg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 11:59:20 am
content: One thing a purely analog meter is good at is measuring DC rails in high power RF amplifiers with the case open.Often there is enough RF ripple on the supply rails or just in the air to confuse digital meters, while the AVO 9 is still perfectly fine.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 12:34:32 pm
content: Not needing batteries, to measure voltage and current, is the main reason why I have an analogue meter in my toolbox just in case the battery in my digital multimeter goes flat.

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 12:42:30 pm
content: One of the best uses for an analog meter is in radio alignment and frequency adjustment. 'Peaking' an I.F. strip and zero beating to frequencies when the detector can provide the D.C. quantity is so much easier with an analog meter movement. In the early days of DMM's some even included a small 'zero center' analog meter. Most only showed +/- 100% of selected full scale without any actual 'value' markings. I seem to recall even Simpson offered such a model that incorporated a so called 'edgewise' meter.

author: martin1959
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 01:16:16 pm
content: Analog meters are nice for demonstration and education purpose.Example: Demonstrate working principle of a voltage divider or potentiometer by connecting 2 analog voltmeters to the upper and lower half of the potentiometer. Move the potentilmeter slider and watch the two analog meters respond in opposite directions.I did such demonstration in a little "magic show" for engineer colleagues. Instead of a potentiometer, I connected 2 PPTC (self-resetting fuses) in series, forming a voltage divider. With suitable power applied, one of the PPTCs would "win", i.e. get hotter (and increase resistance) sooner and take almost all the voltage while the other one would remain/get cooler (and decrease resistance). This voltage divider of 2 PPTCs then reaches a stable "state". However, with the help of a heat gun, you can force the "state" to change by heating up the "cool" PPTC resistor. It will then end up in the other stable "state".Could be a candidate for the Guiness book of records: The slowest ever produced electronic 1-bit memory cell which needs 20 seconds or more to change state.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 12:16:34 am
content: Not needing batteries, "peaking" adjustments, quick test jigs, and following changing signals have all been mentioned but none of these will absolutely prevent the demise of the analog meter. However, as long as there are zero EMI emission environments (physics, engineering, medical .. laboratories) there will be a high dollar demand for non-electronic analog meters like the Simpson 360/370. These still sell for well over $500 for some models. Even over $1000.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 04:20:52 am
content: The demise of analog meters will not be because of what they can or can't do. It will be because the economies of scale tip so far against them that they just will fade away. Not enough volume to pay a single person who knows how to mount a hairspring, or load pivot bearings or all the other little fiddly skills that go into these. They are close to manufacturing extinction already, almost all of the market is NOS, or used material.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 06:23:35 am
content: There is still some market for simple analog meter movements. Once the plans are there they are not that difficult to produce. One still finds analog movements in simpler battery testers - so they seem to still reasonable cheap at the low end. It may not be good for a new practical multimeter, but could still be good as part of an instrument / power supply / charger.For many uses there are still enough old analog meters around - if treated well they can last very long. I still have my first 40+ years old analog multimeter.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 11:32:17 am
content: I restored an AVO 9 Mk32 a couple of years ago, it took quite a while, repairing and adjusting the overload trip, leaf switch contacts etc. Since then, it's been a bit of a love hate relationship, it's bulky and heavy, but the display is much clearer at following moving trends than my DMMs. After all the time and effort I lavished on it, I would feel very sad if I had to part with it now. The 3kV ranges and transformer based AC current ranges are nice too.

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 03:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 12, 2024, 04:20:52 amLike CRT scopes

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 07:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: MrAl on June 12, 2024, 03:40:23 pmThere's a lot more to making a CRT than making a moving coil meter. You can still buy moving coil meters made in China, and by a few makers in the West. If there was a serious need for either, the knowledge isn't lost and we get better at making things. If there was sudden need for buggy whips or collapsible opera hats, there are still people who make them, and we could gear up to make them in quantity.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 02:56:43 am
content: You can recreate old tech. But as the market shrinks it isn't worth it. As both of you point out there is still a small market and sources for analog meters. Not dead but moribund. Who knows it could have a resurrection like vinyl record or vacuum tubes.

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 12:16:07 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on June 12, 2024, 07:45:46 pmI mentioned the CRT scopes because it seems not long ago there were CRT scopes available all over the place. Then one day there were digital scopes with impressive features and then CRT scopes were less desirable even if still available. CRT scopes are actually better for some things.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 12:48:14 pm
content: A similar thing happened with CRT monitors and flat screen monitors, and with HDDs and SSDs. Both were around for ages as an expensive, not particularly good niche product, then suddenly prices dropped and performance improved drastically and there was a fairly rapid switch over.There are still a few makers of CRT scopes, but it's not where the action is in the scope market.https://www.twintex-china.com/Analog-Oscilloscopes.htmlIt would be interesting to know where they get the CRTs from. They might be using NOS or I suppose if you are prepared to order 10,000, someone in China maybe already making valves for the audio market, would do it for you. If you are making an analog scope there must be lots of specialised things you have to source, such as EHT multipliers, controls and switches and the mu-metal screen.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 01:39:22 pm
content: My analog meter is permanently stationed on my variac.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 04:41:37 pm
content: yes

author: MarkT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 08:31:18 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 29, 2020, 08:44:31 amBut arguably bargraph displays are better than rotary dial displays in this context as they can be arrayed side by side neatly. (some multimeters have a crude bargraph as well as digits).I've found that an analog meter on a bench PSU is more convenient, both for seeing the nature of current fluctuations and for rapidly setting an output voltage - a 4 digit digital display rapidly changing conveys less information than a needle swinging.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 08:48:13 am
content: Quote from: MarkT on June 16, 2024, 08:31:18 amCounter-example, where there are multiple groups of four dials, one for each engine.Rotary analogue meters are a well-understood and reliable technology, which can be an overriding consideration.And, of course, good luck trying to replace one of these with a digital readout.QuoteYup, particularly therateof swing.Also works with using a ballistic galvo to measurecharge.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 08:57:40 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 12, 2024, 04:20:52 amAnalogmultimetershave certainly largely disappeared. Analogpanel meters, on the other hand, are still somewhat common. Certainly not as common as they once were, but still something you see on new installations all the time. So I don’t think they’re going away any time soon.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 09:03:19 am
content: Quote from: Zenith on June 12, 2024, 07:45:46 pmI suspect that the knowledge needed to make top-qualitycolorCRTs is already lost. As I understand it, there was tons of institutional knowledge involved in making the very best ones (like Trinitron) and those people retired 20 years ago. I think if we wanted to start making those again, it’d take us many years to redevelop the process.It’s kinda shocking how quickly manufacturing knowledge can be lost. Look at how difficult it has been to recreate Polaroid film,even with lots of highly experienced Polaroid employees. It also shocks me at how quickly documentation gets thrown out when companies are closed, sold, or even just move. We blink, and the information on how to make something unique is simply gone.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 05:27:11 pm
content: Quote from: Ground_Loop on June 13, 2024, 01:39:22 pm

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 04:58:23 am
content: Quote from: MarkT on June 16, 2024, 08:31:18 amHam radio transceivers, after a flirtation with in line LED bargraph "S"/power meters, returned to analog meters for some years until "rendered" displays of "analog meters" became possible.They seem to have solved the problem of replicating the "ballistics" of an analog meter, too.It is very hard to tell the difference in the short time I have spent looking at them.(My own ham gear is nearly as ancient as my test equipment).Another excellent example of a "rendered" analog display is as close as the clock on the nearest iPad.(One of the few things they do right, in my opinion).

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 06:26:21 am
content: One can find redered analog readout also in cars. There one can also find anlog movements driven from some DAC or similar (e.g. to get a specific nonlinear curve that is hard to get analog and the values is available digital anyway).I don't see that specific knowledge / machineries needed to produce an analog multimeter. The only maybe tricky part is that Alnico magents get less and less common and the meter movements often used AlCiCo magents because they are rather stable over temperature (though not so good over time).

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 09:29:41 am
content: AlNiCo is good over time too if it is properly aged at manufacture - like the proper meter manufacturers used to do. Most included an adjustable magnetic shunt too. [EDIT: It's impacts and opening the magnetic circuit, touching with steel tools etc. that they're bad at.]

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 12:14:15 pm
content: Yes got some AlNiCo magnets, made around 1956 for a GE Magnetron, and they have lost a lot of magnetisation over time, as they were stored unkeepered. But good enough to have occasional use, as a cast housing magnet. Have not got the magnetron though, though I did play with the later aircraft versions.Analogue meters still have use, where you want indication of change, and not accuracy, or simple distinction of current flow with centre zero meters.