Can you make an apple computer (an 'OS'os) like you can with a PC and windows? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pm
content: Why can't you build an apple system? Does it have a processor that is like an ARM chip where you can run Linux but not windows? Why can't windows talk to an apple processor, what ever apple calls there chips? Can you put Linux on an apple computer? I kind of like apple but hate how nothing will plug into it. Not even head phones.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 10:03:57 pm
content: [Fx: wind and tumbleweeds]

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 10:10:13 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pmBecause MAC OS is not for sale. It is only available as part of the MAC.EDIT: And if you are OK with stealing, then google 'hackintosh'.Quote from: Beamin on September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pmNo, all current MACs have standard Intel processors.Quote from: Beamin on September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pmIt can. You can freely run Windows on Apple hardware.Quote from: Beamin on September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pmYes, you can. What peripherals will work is up to specific Linux distro and hardware.Quote from: Beamin on September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pmHow is installing Windows or Linux helps here?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 10:11:18 pm
content: You can if you *really* want to, but it will violate the terms of the OS and you need to pick the right hardware for compatability. Google hackintosh.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 10:16:28 pm
content: You ask some of the most interesting and weirdest questions.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 10:17:56 pm
content: Which do you want to know about, cell phones or computers?The cell phones are probably using ARM processors although there may be some ASIC stuff around the outside. I haven't looked.The Apple Computers use conventional (in the PC sense) processors. There is no reason you couldn't blow off OSx (or MacOS or whatever they call it today) and load windows EXCEPT that you might need drivers that might not exist. However, according to Google, there are two ways to run Win 10 on an Apple computer:https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/29/9058825/windows-10-macbook-how-to-install-osxAgain, there is no reason you couldn't run Linux except drivers (perhaps):http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac/how-install-linux-on-mac-3637265/I don't see how Linux could possibly be an improvement over Unix!If you don't like the way Apple products work, why buy them?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 11:49:37 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on September 11, 2017, 09:49:48 pmYou've obviously never even looked at an Apple computer, never mind used one, since literally every single Mac ever made, from 1984 through today, has a 3.5mm audio output.Nor have you done any homework whatsoever, or you'd have quickly learned what CPUs Apple used in different products over the years.Or that every Intel-based Mac comes with a tool called Boot Camp to let you install Windows (including the optimal drivers for each component).Or how every Mac since 1998 has USB, same as everyone else.In other words, you've worded your question from a place of lazy ignorance, based on stereotypes, not facts.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 03:10:41 pm
content: Because apple is using security torx, and it is impossible to buy screwdrivers for it.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 03:22:35 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 12, 2017, 03:10:41 pmHere in USA (and online) security drivers are available everywhere.The question seems rather ill-researched and based on misinformation.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 03:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 12, 2017, 03:22:35 pmSorry, I thought this was the stupid answers to stupid questions board.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2017, 11:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 12, 2017, 03:10:41 pmHeheheh. Yeah, if the gas station doesn't stock the screwdriver for it, it's garbage! LOL!

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 12:45:05 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 12, 2017, 03:29:46 pmSome torx, mostly phillips, and a sprinkling of pentalobe for extra frustration (jam a flat blade driver into it instead of buying more tools).

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 12:53:21 am
content: Heh, Apple Mac owners are all form over function, and gladly pay premium for their fashion statements.Damn it, I remember well over a decade ago I found my now (then) aging ATI Radeon (8500/9500 iirc?) graphics card was exactly the same as the official Apple product. IIRC it just needed a firmware change and sold it on ebay as an "Apple compatible" for 10x what it was worth as a long in the tooth PC card - but it was still half of what Apple were selling their top of the range card for.Of course it was snatched instantly. I should have charged more, but I even made a profit on it!!!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 01:02:22 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 13, 2017, 12:53:21 amSecond hand Apple prices are something that surprise me every time. You can sell a severely water damaged, inoperable and ageing Apple laptop for more money than some new and half decent laptops from other brands costs. I guess it can be considered both an advantage and a problem. Your Apple hardware is not going to lose value soon, but spares will cost you.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:15:34 am
content: There is a specific driver in MacOS that endeavors to verify it is running on authorized hardware. The magic string it encodes contains "Please don't steal MacOS! Really, that's way uncool."Quote from: tooki on September 12, 2017, 11:49:37 amThe Macintosh XL doesn't have an audio port. Neither does the PowerBook Duo unless you use a dongle.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:07:34 am
content: Quote from: helius on September 13, 2017, 02:15:34 amNo it doesn't. It contains a copyrighted string which Apple uses to request removal when it appears on the web and which any owner of a Mac can pull from the SMC. Not difficult to find though if you look for the SMC OSK string, but it's certainly not what you stated it is.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 04:54:00 am
content: Quote from: BradC on September 13, 2017, 03:07:34 amNo ... but it would be a lot funnier.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 01:43:21 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 13, 2017, 12:53:21 amThat is, of course, absolute nonsense 99% of the time.Heck, my primary computer is a Mac Pro tower, stuck on a shelf out of sight, while the objects on my desk, visible, are an HP display on an Ergotron arm, a Filco keyboard, a Logitech mouse and webcam, Sony speakers (actually a stereo, not PC speakers), and one solitary Apple device: the Magic Trackpad.What people pay for is gadgets that just work. Are Apple products perfect? Absolutely not. But they work well, almost all of the time.Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 01:02:22 amYep, it surprises me, too. But what it also means is that you can sell your used gear for far more than non-Apple gear of the same age, meaning that your actual TCO is often lower. (Apple products routinely realize substantial TCO savings over Windows/Android devices, despite sometimes costing more to purchase up-front.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 01:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: helius on September 13, 2017, 02:15:34 amWell, I don't consider the Mac XL really a Mac, since it's really just a Lisa 2 with a Mac emulator app. But you are right about the Duos, I forgot that they only had audio output on the docks!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 01:56:30 pm
content: FYI, I think we all fell for a troll anyway -- the OP hasn't responded, and several of their other recent threads are also just shit-stirring...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:02:41 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2017, 01:56:30 pmDon't attribute to malicious intent that which might be attributed to ignorance. If even a small percentage of people called out as trolls on the web actually were to be trolls, we'd all be in deep trouble.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:06:11 pm
content: 20 years of IT experience says:1. If I want to be paid to fix shit, I'll use windows2. If I want to be paid to configure shit, I'll use Linux3. If I want to be paid to create things, I'll use MacOS.I want to create things.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 02:02:41 pmWell, I wish I could agree, but having met more and more people who openly admit to trollingeven in real-life, face-to-face conversations, I've become more cynical...

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2017, 01:56:30 pmI mistakenly thought that the general populace had cottoned on to that, hence the second post from me; I rather hoped that folks would get the joke and build on it. Ho hum ...

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:18:26 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 02:02:41 pmWhich is fine in a first appraisal. Read a few threads that beamin has started and taken part in and your assessment might change. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me 17 times, ya can call me dubya.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:22:39 pm
content: Some of the most interesting discussions I've had on the internet have been started by trolls. Actually one company I worked for's entire product was built to trolls another company. Never underestimate the power of negativity!

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:24:47 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 13, 2017, 02:06:11 pmA little correction if I may:QuoteThat said, I use Linux for all the back-end stuff in this house and once itisconfigured it's fine and rarely does anything other than "just workTM".

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:25:51 pm
content: Unfortunately, OP, you cannot install MacOS onto a regular PC, as all MacOS compatible machines run using either PowerPC or 68k CPUs. There are emulators, but none that are very good. I'm not sure why anybody would want to use MacOS anyways outside of boredom or a joke, as it's built off an old and messy codebase that had issues ever since anybody mentioned IBM at Apple.Likewise, all MacOS machines are completely incompatible with Windows except through emulators, which work even worse than MacOS emulators on PC. Sadly, the life of a MacOS lover is resigned to legacy hardware and codebases.We just have to hope there will be a newer operating system.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:35:07 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 13, 2017, 02:06:11 pmThe latter doesn't really ring true any more. It was true 20 years ago, but considering Apple has strongly moved towards the consumer market, those days are gone. There will inevitably be some sectors holding out, but it's certainly not the default content creation platform it once was any more.Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2017, 02:13:02 pmPeople tend to call sarcasm and satire trolling nowadays. When everyone is a troll, no one is a troll.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:38:14 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on September 13, 2017, 02:25:51 pmApple has been using normal x86/x64 Intel processors for years now. There is nothing limiting the use of OS X on regular hardware, other than the license and driver limitations. Due to the latter, you need to select specific compatible hardware to successfully run the OS. A build of compatible hardware with OS X is generally known as a Hackintosh.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:45:20 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 13, 2017, 02:24:47 pmI'll give you that

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 02:50:16 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 02:35:07 pmI haven't seen a creative team that isn't Mac in the last decade, at least here in the UK. There was one contractor we hired who used an ancient dell laptop full of ash and covered in cigarette burns who did some stuff for us with Fireworks MX (yep that old) only a year ago. He was damn good. Had a sticker of a tinyurl on his laptop lid. If you entered it you got goatse'd. The software guys are picking up Macs now after years of abuse by Microsoft and the sheer grating pain that is desktop linux.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:02:06 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 13, 2017, 02:06:11 pmMe too, but...To bad that most of my software only runs (without issues) on Windows.I seriously never understand the whole OS debate.It's all about what you practically can do with it.Even if you find Linux super duper awesome, as soon as you can't run your programs on it, it's useless.Yes, you can run virtual machines, which still requires a Windows License, or WINE, which has some major and minor bugs.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 13, 2017, 02:50:16 pmI'd say it's about 50/50 at the moment, with different creative sectors having different numbers. Any design firm will have Windows based systems, because engineering software almost exclusively runs on Windows. Advertising companies can go either way or mix things up, but tend to be more Apple oriented in any area where customers might interact with the company. Video editing has been steadily shifting towards Windows, due to the heavy workloads and the workstations running Windows. Illustrators and graphic designers used to be slanted a bit more towards Apple, but considering Apple hasn't quite matched the proposition of the Surface range, there seems to be a shift towards that.I think Microsoft made a big step shifting from the traditional plastic laptop towards both more capable and attractive hardware, while Apple has slid down towards the more mundane customer with a decent budget.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 03:08:27 pmNot a single one of the engineers at my company uses Windows. Not a one. It's about a 50/50 split between Mac and Linux, based solely on preference. I don't know what "engineering software" you're referring to, but whatever it is, they're missing out on a huge market by making it Windows-only.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:31:30 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 13, 2017, 02:50:16 pmThe fact that 'creative people' (very subjective) don't use a certain OS or solution, is not prove at all that thus it's a better choice.In fact, it probably has more to do with very good marketing and creating some kind of sub culture with that.For the same reason technician workers act tough, shiny objects are being considered as luxury products and even that expensive products must be quality products. The list goes on.Even the fact that 'a lot of people use it, so it most be good' isn't necessarily true.There are even plenty of examples that prove that popular products are/were actually the opposite.Btw, very interesting stuff. I can share a few books that go very deep into marketing, (sub) cultures and people behaviors.Spoiler: there is absolutely no scientific correlation between price, quality and popularity.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on September 13, 2017, 03:22:29 pmWe are a electronics forum, right?For starters, almost ALL professional PCB/EDA/CAD programs.Plus the additional more specific/detailed software programs.Some of the (user) licenses are not even compatible with anything else than a Windows OS

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:36:26 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on September 13, 2017, 03:22:29 pmSolidworks, CATIA and Inventor are the first to come to mind, though there are many, many more. Those are all packages that well and truly earn the engineering software label without any quotation marks around it. Note that these packages also include a huge ecosystem of plug-ins and related applications developed by others.What kind of engineering does your company do?

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:39:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 03:36:26 pmAlso very good examples!Not only that, they are even the de facto standard. (unfortunately in some cases)

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:42:13 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 02:38:14 pmI said MacOS, I never said OS/X or macOS. The spelling and capitalization changed between versions. There exist no MacOS machines with x86 CPUs.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:45:07 pm
content: Forgot about Solidworks, you're right, the people who use Solidworks have a Windows VM for it that I had forgotten about. The electronics people use Eagle or KiCAD, usually KiCAD.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 04:13:55 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on September 13, 2017, 03:42:13 pmSo, what are you talking about? Pre-OSX?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 04:25:41 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on September 13, 2017, 04:13:55 pmAncient Apple computers ran MacOS, with the same name as the modern OS but with different capitalisation, and he's apparently referring to that. Considering people not part of Apple use all sorts of capitalisation schemes for the modern OS and the subject is obviously the modern variety of the software, I'm not sure posting irrelevant information which might confuse uninitiated passer-bys is considered funny.There's no accounting for taste, I guess.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 05:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 13, 2017, 02:50:16 pmApple is the largest INDIVIDUAL notebook manufacturer but accounts for only 10% of the market.https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/16/apple-notebook-market-share-2015/This year Linux will reach 5% of desktops.http://www.techrepublic.com/article/open-source-predictions-for-2017/Android is the most used OS but that's for cell phones, who cares?Windows is far and away king of desktops and laptops. People can believe what they want but Windows owns the user space.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 05:09:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 04:25:41 pmOS/X wasn't a thing until the 2000's. MacOS was based off the Macintosh System (1-7) which was ultimately renamed to MacOS, where as macOS (different capitalization) is just a rename of OS/X.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 06:54:31 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 13, 2017, 06:36:38 pmOver the years, I've seen more than one report of Apple computers with high end chips only being capable of running full throttle for a minute or so, before thermals force them to throttle back. It casts doubt on whether paying hundreds more for a slightly higher clocked chip yields any appreciable result.I guess it's the price you pay for the attractive form factor.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 07:10:23 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 06:54:31 pmMy experience over the years has been that the Macs with an integrated screen (iMac, notebooks) have thermally limited performance. The others (mac mini, PowerMac, Mac Pro, and the short lived rack mounted servers) have excellent thermals.The Mac Pro sitting next to me is effectively silent, even with every core running at 100%. If you try really hard you can just hear it even though it makes quite a welcome room heater on a chilly day. The old G5 iMac the other side of the room starts to be annoying loud once the CPU hits anything over 40% and does indeed thermally throttle in quite short order.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 07:13:23 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 13, 2017, 07:10:23 pmYes, the iMacs and the notebooks would be the afflicted types. I am unsure of the Mini, but i'll take your word for it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 07:27:39 pm
content: On the subject of operating systems, my daughter's laptop spontaneously hosed itself this evening. She was signing into it with her cloud account and suddenly that has stopped working, probably because they are a popular and easy target with their online presence. 2FA is wonky on it as well and the recovery stick doesn't work just hanging indefinitely. This lead to me trying to get access to the disk with the printed out encryption key (it has an encrypted disk) but that doesn't work because the file system encryption version in the machine that is mounting it is different.The only consolation she has is I said to distrust it and keep a USB stick around and periodically run manual file level backups to it.Your challenge is to guess the provider of the OS and guess how many hours this will cost me to unfuck.

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 08:39:10 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on September 13, 2017, 05:09:48 pmAre you perhaps confusing OS X with OS/2 here?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 08:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: Gromitt on September 13, 2017, 08:39:10 pmHe deserved that

author: ThunderCat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 02:24:53 am
content: I've used both PCs and Macs since the early '90s. Originally I lusted after the Macs because I thought they were so much better, but I ended up going the PC route for my home computer, and as it turned out most software that I taught ended up being PC-based. It was a good choice.In 2014 I bought a nice high-end Mac laptop for my personal computer and I haven't looked back. I read a comment on this thread that Mac folks are just form over function, but really, honestly - great hardware/software is BOTH. I get a special pleasure each and every time I sit down to my beautiful laptop, because the fit-and-finish are just amazing, and it works very well. I also run Windows using VMWare Fusion, and that also works well.I guess at the end of the day posts like these just illustrate the basic point: to each his own; whatever works. But I've spent untold hours in configuration hell with Windows machines that just took a dump for no reason, and endless bleary-eyed hours tracking down weird problems with PCs. In full disclosure I had a lot of weird problems with early Macs at a place I used to work and also used to spend a lot of time figuring them out when things went wrong - and they did.My one disappointment with Apple lately is I think they've lost their Mojo, their drive, their vision. I don't think Steve would have ever let the new iPhone out the door with that ridiculous notch at the top of the screen; he would have delayed the phone or sat on the engineers until they came up with a solution to deliver a truly "one piece of glass" phone. I've also been disappointed that they have tended to spec lower hardware - I distinctly recall when they came out with some "new" laptops sporting Core2Duo processors that were very long in the tooth already on the Win platform. What puzzles me is that they don't seem to try to use the latest/greatest hardware when in fact as a company like this they could easily get advance samples of hardware from chip and video makers.In any case, I still teach on the PC and use the Mac and PC at home and honestly they are both good.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 06:17:17 am
content: I'd just like to add one complaint about the mac. The damn thing is freezing cold in the morning. Plastic laptops are nicer in this respect

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 09:42:00 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on September 13, 2017, 05:09:48 pmExcept that if you're gonna be that specific on spelling, then you're wrong: classic Mac OS was written "Mac OS", not "MacOS". The later NeXT derivative was first "Mac OS X", then briefly just "OS X", then "macOS". No slashes anywhere. (There was a realtime OS called OS-9 or OS/9, but it wasn't from Apple and was unrelated to Mac OS 9.)Similarly, many people (including some old apple developer docs, which weren't properly vetted by the marketing proofreaders) often incorrectly wrote "PowerMac" instead of the correct "Power Mac".IIRC Apple's only OS with a slash in the name was its old Unix for classic Macs, called A/UX.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 09:47:05 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 14, 2017, 06:17:17 amHah, yes!!! Though if it's like my old MacBook Air, it'll be almost scaldingly hot after a little while of heavy use! (Though in all fairness, I got it used from a friend, who had a protective film applied to it, which may well be insulating a lot of heat radiation from the underside, causing the top to be that much warmer.) It's nothing like my old aluminum PowerBook G4, the only Mac I've ever owned that I actually disliked. That model ran hot as hell, and it was underpowered even for its day, because the desktops ran G5 CPUs, which IBM had simply failed to succeed in making a low power version of.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 12:03:36 pm
content: I'm actually quite impressed with this one's heat dissipation ability. If I'm transcoding video, it kicks the CPU fans in heavily (it's quite noisy then) but it doesn't actually get that warm at all. Also it only ever kicks the fans in when I'm transcoding on all cores. It's a much older 2013 i7 15" model so it has a lot more space to spread the heat I imagine.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 04:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 13, 2017, 04:25:41 pmI ask because my first computer was a Mac 512 KE when I was 8 and I had two pre-OSX Macs after that. I spent my formidable years on pre-OSX Macs. The Mac OS, prior to OS X was always referred to as "System xx", where the xx was the version number. Even OSX would have followed this originally, as it was technically "System 10" (the X being 10), although I guess Jobs wanted a more modern naming scheme.I have never heard of pre-OSX being referred to as, "MacOS".

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2017, 05:29:21 pm
content: Fair enough. I just like the way OS/X looks better. Not to mention I was focusing on capitalization, not spelling/spacing.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2017, 09:41:54 am
content: Quote from: MarkS on September 14, 2017, 04:15:23 pmI guess you were no longer using the Mac during the mid- and late 1990s? It was officially the "Mac System Software" ("System" for short)* up through System 7.5.5, but the first appearance of the "Mac OS" name was the boot splash screen in the 7.5.1 update in 1995, in preparation of the Mac clones.As of 7.6, the Mac OS branding became official, and that naming was used consistently throughout both marketing materials as well as in the software itself. The change roughly coincided with the launch of the Mac clones in 1996, where naming was needed that branded the OS even when running on non-Apple hardware.As a reminder, Steve Jobs didn't return to Apple until 1997.Mac OS X would never have been "System 10" because the "system" naming had been retired for many years by that point. (Mac OS X 10.0 was released in 2001, though "Mac OS X Server 1.0", which was really just the final version of OpenStep, dolled up with the skin of Mac OS 8, was released in 1999, whose only real use was to be a NetBoot server for iMacs in enterprise environments. For everything else at the time, an AppleShare IP server was more useful.)For sure, there were holdouts among users, who insisted on referring to Mac OS 9 as "System 9", but that was never officially correct.Quote from: TwoOfFive on September 14, 2017, 05:29:21 pmFor sure you're allowed your preference, but I don't actually recommend using it in any text intended for anyone else. It's just plain clearer to use the official spelling consistently, lest the reader incorrectly infer a difference. (Can you tell that I worked as a professional technical writer for years?)(And yes, I think it was unwise of Apple to change Mac OS X's "official" name twice, it's confusing to people who only follow Apple products casually. Though at least the second official name, "OS X"-without-the-Mac, was what lots of people called it casually anyway. macOS is consistent in their modern naming scheme, but I don't think anyone would have felt bothered if Apple's OS lineup had remained "Mac OS X", iOS, tvOS, and watchOS. For completeness' sake, I'll mention that the "old" Apple TV products, the ones without Siri, ran software simply called "Apple TV Software x.x", with versions 1-3 being based on Mac OS X 10.4 for the original Pentium-based Apple TV, while versions 4-7 for the ARM-based Apple TV 2 and 3 were based on various versions of iOS.)*On early versions of the Mac System Software, the version numbers of the "Mac System Software" as a whole (as labeled on the boot floppy), of the System file, and of the Finder were all separate, which was very confusing. Starting in System 6, the major version numbers were finally harmonized and stayed in sync, though differences in the minor versions did exist. SeeMacintosh: System Software Version History

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 02:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 13, 2017, 01:56:30 pmOh really? Some people have job or careers and can't check every post on every forum or respond to every email they get. You call it shit stirring others have called my questions both weird and interesting.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 04:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on September 18, 2017, 02:22:20 pmNot checking in for a whole week, after dropping poorly researched and/or absurd questions? If it looks like a troll and quacks like a troll...

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 06:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2017, 04:51:36 pmsure.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 07:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on September 18, 2017, 06:17:21 pmThen prove it, by responding to the ensuing discussion. People here have discussed multiple aspects, and the history. Discuss.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 09:23:06 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2017, 07:51:36 pmNo. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else for that matter. If my posts are not to your liking because you think you are smarter or superior then I am fine. Don't read them or click on them. If I'm a "troll" because I ask a question about some thing I know nothing about in order to understand it better then I guess I am a troll along with everyone else on the internet. If I feel I'm superior to someone I won't engage with them, I won't argue with them or try to prove my point or show them they are wrong I just let them be. I would gain nothing by interacting with them. If I wanted a pointless argument with people who were dumber then me I would go write comments on alex jones videos on youtube, but I don't because there is no point in dealing with such stupid people. I'm not going to research such a simple question so some guy on the internet has the illusion I know more then I do because I really don't care. Speaking of trolling what do your last few posts contribute to the topic? I didn't see any references to support your point or any well researched responses. I guarantee you will respond to this post trying to prove you are right. And even if you do it proves nothing.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 10:09:28 pm
content: And that response only further proves that you are trolling, since you literally don't actually care about the answer. If you did, you'd be asking followup questions, etc.I'm not gonna go to the effort of providing detailed responses for someone who's clearly not interested in the answer - just like I (and others) suspected you were, right from the beginning.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 11:24:48 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2017, 10:09:28 pmYou have totally exposed my plan to troll this board by asking a question about a macintosh computer! You have exposed my evil plan!!!! How ever did you know about my evil genius? I join forums asking why is a mac not a PC and chaos ensues! mwahahahahaha!!! But not this time, you have foiled my trolling!!!! What will I do now? Please I beg you for your mercy!!!!