Farmbot - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 01:47:24 am
content: Please, pleeeease Dave, do a debunking video on this bullshit. These lofty claims are just laughable;QuoteQuoteThis is solar roadways stupidhttps://farmbot.io/

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 05:54:50 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on December 05, 2016, 04:30:43 amThe fertilizier depend of terrain if you have a clay soil and few deep you have to put fertilizier .More than use herbicide, you have to use fungicide and pesticide if you want to harvest something. Like you don't sulphate the trees and cultives ,the bugs are as The Huns , where they pass the grass don't grow. I say it by experience this year i have to cut half peach tree(big) by the aphids."Storage zero". If you harvest onions and apples and it doesn't damage by branches,falls and bug lasts several moths out the fridge. But if you harvest tomatoes, figs, peaches etc like you don't put on fridge ,it rots .Because it matures suddenly on the plant, of course you can't eat 3 kg of fruit on the same day.(When there were many production i went out by the ears).

author: Luminax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:10:47 am
content: If you look closely at the claim, they either accidentally worded it wrong, deliberately worded it wrong, or I might just be picking up lints :QuoteThe insinuation is that theVeggiesproduce 25% less CO2 Emissions.And I don't really want to go into the whole Carbon Footprint intangible maze of madness but,Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't plant supposed to CONSUME CO2 to produce OXYGEN?Again, I'm picking lints here but how do you even MEASURE Carbon footprint without some sort of elaborate setups to take into account ALL or at least MOST of the contributing factor in the two cases mentioned (Farmbot vs US standard grown Veggies, which, again, differs from place to place by a stretch of a long beach).Lints... lints... lints everywhere

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:26:55 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on December 05, 2016, 04:30:43 amOf course it's true, mostly because a tomato seed is always cheaper to buy than a tomato. But in my opinion it's intellectually dishonest to compare store bought veggies to Farmbot veggies when it comes to saving money, unless the bot instead of planting and watering walks to the store and simply buy it for you, in which case you'll see pretty quickly that it would not save you a dime. Ever. Such a bot would cost, well, lots. The bot should instead, naturally, be compared to hand sown and watered farming, which we yet again arrive at the same conclusion; you'll save nothing. Four thousand dollars for a 45 square feet (4 sq meters (Source ->Max growing area: Approximately 2.9m x 1.4m)) veggie patch is, you know, ridiculously expensive. And this is without constant mechanical maintenance and electrical consumption.As a showcase or as a hobby project, fine, people are free to do what ever they want. But this thing is marketed as a thing that will save you money and save the environment, and as such, it's complete bullshit. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a scam, but it's not far off.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:35:23 am
content: Those will be very expensive veggies.Concept is good, especially for research when you want the same conditions for each plant. But not for you home garden, unless it's your hobby. Which isn't required to be profitable.

author: Luminax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 07:51:08 am
content: I actually have another angle of take on this.It's what a few hobbyist who also happened to be a gamer came up as a 'real world counterpart' of Harvest Moon or,to be closely approximated, FarmVille...ey, click me some tomatoes willya?

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 08:06:30 am
content: i'm not a big gardener, but this farmbot doesn't seem right to me1. those veggies will be extremely expensive2. if gardening is your hobby you don't need the farmbot3. apparently the author was not gardening too much.let's break it down a bit:what can it do ?1. place seeds2. watering the plants from above3. measure soil humidity4. push weeds under soilplacing seeds is few seconds per plant out of the several months of the grow cycle - so automating it makes absolutely no senseautomated watering (including monitoring humidity) can be done efficiently and much cheaper (while covering much bigger area)poking the weeds under the soil is pointlesswhat it should do and it can't ?1. loosen the soil - roots need to "breathe"2. pull the weeds out including it's roots - many weeds are spreading underground via their roots3. watering the plants at stems instead of watering the leaves from aboveso if you sum it up.. the only conclusion is "it's freaking pointless !" . it can handle 2 square meters of soil at a price of 3000$and it won't last longer than 1 or 2 years outside (rain, dust, UV light).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 08:24:18 am
content: That's not really my field.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 08:34:08 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 05, 2016, 08:06:30 amYep. The amount of work needed to set this thing up and constantly monitor it to see if it's working properly looksfarmore than the amount of work needed to just do it yourself. The main benefit would be automated watering but you don't need a CNC for that (just get an Arduino, a $5 pump and some tubing)If the field was 50mx50m then itmightbe a better idea, but... it isn't!

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 08:39:33 am
content: Farmbot may just have a market in city veggie gardens, forlazy gardenerswith iphones.Farmbot looks like a new way to play Farmville.as for Carbon dioxide, its vital for life on Earth. -but the UN or Al Gore is not. remember the world did end in 2012. And theirs a Movie for that one too.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:08:23 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 05, 2016, 08:39:33 amI'm sure there's a market for people who want something to show off to their hipster friends. They can even spend ten minutes a day helping the robot get good results.$3000 for half a kilo of radishes isn't a bargain though, environmentally or otherwise.(Yeah, I know, I have no imagination and need to keep an open mind about the possibilities of this thing...)

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:17:47 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 05, 2016, 08:24:18 amOh, come on, neither is solar roadways

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:24:31 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 09:17:47 amNo...solar roadways isn't hispath.(whoosh!)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:32:36 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 09:17:47 amActually they are because Dave is interested in solar power and has own solar panels on his roof.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:39:11 am
content: solar roadways just needs a name change to Solar Drivewaysfor the home improvement industry & DIY

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:58:20 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 05, 2016, 09:32:36 amI know, he also dabbles in Makerbots and Aurdinos which makes Farmbot right up his alley

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 10:35:34 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 09:58:20 amYou want him to debunk farming, not electronics.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:01:58 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 05, 2016, 10:35:34 amWh... eh, no, I want him to debunk the concept, just like he debunked the concept of solar roadways. Both includes electronic engineering with a specific purpose to save money and provide a benefit for the environment.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:18:56 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 11:01:58 amThe concept is a new way of farming. Electronics cannot be debunked because it can and will (if enough effort is put into implementation) work. What you can debunk is if such farming is financially viable, and that means Dave would need to dig into farming, how it happens, farming expenses.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:26:30 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 05, 2016, 11:18:56 amThey're coming thick and fast now.Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 09:58:20 amThere's no doubt the machinery will work.Is it worth doing? I dunno. How exactly do you use a multimeter to measure a radish? What sort of oscilloscope probe can measure the CO2 savings?

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:35:18 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2016, 11:26:30 amSolar roadways work too.Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2016, 11:26:30 amI don't know.Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2016, 11:26:30 amHow exactly do you use a multimeter to measure a tractor on a piece of hexagonal glass?Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2016, 11:26:30 amThe same oscilloscope that can measure the grants given for untenable and unrealistic projects no-one needs.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 02:03:51 pm
content: Let's stop trying to argue with less than helpful analogies and irrelevant comparisons.Solar Roadways.There are two basic components - the electrical and the mechanical.The fundamental measure of the viability of Solar Roadways can be derived directly from analysis of the electrical performance. Yes, there is a durability requirement - but if the electrical side of things doesn't add up, then no amount of mechanical wizardry is going to change that.Farmbot.Again we have two basic components - the electrical and the agricultural.The fundamental measure of the viability of the Farmbot is primarily in the agriculture. The electrical merely plays a part in the efficiency of the agriculture - and all the electrical analysis under the sun cannot give any direct answers about that. Dave is not the person I would ask to debunk this.The difference isn't apples and oranges - it's tarmac and tomatoes.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 02:17:30 pm
content: QuoteFarmbot is automated horticulture, but its size maybe too small for most Industrial horticulture.I had an odd idea of automated horticulture farming way back in 1980. when I was working on my father's farm. you must be kidding!he told me at the time. the idea of what if? we had automated structure used to straddle the vegetable beds & operate along two rails? on rail wheels.container gantry crane. as in like an oil platform. but its an horticulture platform or shed on rails. no wet mud no hot sun. all like have a big roof, workers have a lunch room & bathroom , work platform moves over the vegetable beds on a gantry platform, powered by a diesel engine that powers hydraulics & Three-phase electric power. like the show-rides use. the idea was dropped, as one kids extravagant nonsense.why horticulture farming is so hard on your back. -off the web

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 04:00:25 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 05, 2016, 02:17:30 pmA machine as this:https://youtu.be/_i62juq8Euk

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 04:15:05 pm
content: What is the deal with the .io top level domain?It seems nowadays that all hipsters, scam websites, bullshit KS/IGG campaigns and their ilk use this TLD.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 04:34:29 pm
content: Like some other ccTLDs (.cc, .co, .fm, .ly, .to), it was assigned to a country but is available to anyone wanting to register there.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 04:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 05, 2016, 08:24:18 am*badumtish*Here all week folks, try the steak...

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:19:06 pm
content: Quoteone cool automated farming solution.it be interesting to know the water quantity in liters /gallons used in the cutting. its not like you can recapture the used water.all on mini tank tracks cool, no bugging in the mud.back to the Farmbot videoas for electronics in harsh environments, the stepper motors used , water condensation on cold metal in the mornings.?snails and bugs that may like to park on your electronic sensor units.Quotedigging the dirt, tillage. may need a little more umth herefrom your Farmbot

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:37:59 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 05, 2016, 02:03:51 pmNot really. The farming part of this thing is as simple as it could possibly get and even though it has taken 30.000 years for humans to perfect, it's a remarkably uncomplicated procedure; poke a hole in the ground, insert seed, apply water. That's about it for the farming part and no, I'm not asking Dave to "debunk" that part.Quote from: Brumby on December 05, 2016, 02:03:51 pmThe electrical part is however far from certain in how it functions, how it's put together, how much work is required to actually make it a viable option to store bought veggies. What's the estimated life expectancy from the electronics, the Raspery and the Aurduino. How much electricity is required to power this thing for five years, which is the claimed investment return expectancy. This is a mere drop in the ocean of what can be brought up and discussed about this concept, for example what jonovid mentions; what about snails mucking with the mechanics, and I thought this would be an interesting topic, just like the solar roadways.Quote from: Brumby on December 05, 2016, 02:03:51 pmTherefore, Dave ispreciselythe person I would ask to debunk this, albeit based entirely on his take/debunking of solar roadways, which incidently is the reason I asked.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 05:15:31 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 11:37:59 pmThat part of the process wasn't even remotely within my thinking.QuoteThe "How it functions", "How it's put together", how much electricity it consumes, how long the electronics will last are some of the key questions - and they just CAN'T be answered in general terms. The variables are just so ..... varied and complex.With Solar Roadways, it is FAR SIMPLER - justassume that all the unknown parameters are idealand work on thefundamentalpremise. This is something which you just simply cannot do with Farmbot.With Solar Roadways, Dave can present a result for abest casescenario - and if the numbers don't add up for that, then a real world implementation is going to be worse.QuoteYou might want to ask him - but I wouldn't. There are too many NON electronic parameters involved ... and even if he DID grind out some numbers, the value of them in the overall discussion would be just one factor in the viability of such a project - and I would not expect them to hold much power to debunk.

author: Luminax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 03:28:21 am
content: To put it simply, this project'sDEBUNKABILITYas far as Dave, this forum, and the residents of this forum is concerned, is very near zero. Or at least that's what my take on it is...This was a concept I used to think was quite a novel idea (back then it was with cylinders and PLCs and etcs) which I quickly ditched due to lack of funding and lack of practical applications.Yes, I'm quite sure people other than me have had a ponder about this very concept, as we also do about all sorts of stuffs to be 'automated' because let's face it, Engineers are usually lazy people and yes, me included.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 04:01:13 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 09:17:47 amThe fuck it isn't. Dave is an electrical engineer and if turning photons into electrons to stuff into the grid isn't an electrical engineering topic, what is?!

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 04:04:42 am
content: Jesus CHRIST!! Alright!

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:04:47 am
content: their is no need for the Blasphemy! - vresiberba

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:07:59 am
content: Are you guys for real

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:15:55 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 08, 2016, 05:04:47 amNo, but Jesus wants you to use "their" and "there" correctly.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:16:22 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 11:37:59 pmYou just did in your next sentence.QuoteSeeQuoteHow can I do that without knowing all about agriculture?QuoteNo, I'm not.No one cares how it functions, no ones cares about how it's put together (the two things you mentioned above), they only care about the practicality and commercial viability of it.If I only touched upon the electronics part of this in a "debunking" video I'd get (rightly) taken to task for not mentioning to practical viability of it and that the video was a waste of time.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:18:19 am
content: I get it Dave, I get it! I'll see my self out... But, really nice and comfy environment you're promoting here *unsubscribes*

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:29:56 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 08, 2016, 05:18:19 amI'm so glad that you respect the honest/fair opinion of others, and don't get annoyed, if they disagree with you.Some would be throwing their toys out of the pram at this point

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:37:30 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2016, 08:34:08 amThat was pretty much my conclusion when I looked at this as part of being a judge on the Hackaday.io contest (it was an entry that made the finals).It's kind of like a DIY Pick'n'Place machine. Kinda sounds cool, but then comes the practicality of running and maintaining it and you have to wonder how much value it adds vs just getting your boards at a large scale factory devoted to doing this, or in this case assembling (planting) by hand.Cue the quadcopter version for larger fields...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:39:18 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 08, 2016, 05:18:19 amWhat am I "promoting here"?This is a public internet forum (in this case full of knowledgeable & practical engineers), if you can't handle people disagreeing with you then the internet is not the place for you, let alone a technical forum.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 05:52:44 am
content: Quote from: MK14Bastid !! That made me laff too hard

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 06:27:33 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on December 05, 2016, 11:01:58 amThe concept of solar roadways was completely debunkable based on the power output and return on investment compared tocomparable solutions.I knew all about thosecomparable solutions, it's very much in my field of understanding.You'll notice that I didn't touch the aspects of the road surface itself, comparison to road building costs etc (even though I had some data on that).If it was a video about comparing glass road surfaces with tar roads I would never have done a video on it, because it's not my field.Same thing here.To do a video on this without being a laughing stock I need knowledge of thecomparable solution. I know nothing about farming.