My take on learning about electronics and STEM and Diligent's Analog Discovery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2023, 09:50:16 am
content: I was a Voc Ed electronics student in the late 1960s in the US. I was also tracked as "gifted" which meant all the higher-level physics and math. And I grew up in public housing. So I can relate to young people who are inquisitive but without cash.We had a communal garbage house, where I dumpster-dived for things to fix. (When it was just "picking garbage"). I get it.We followed the 1965 USN NEETS curriculum for 2 years. Even though I was across the Hudson River from Fishkill (IBM), no one would help me get a job, but they would send me to college. Young and naive, off I went. Wound up with a Ph.D. in a totally unrelated field.Now I am independently studying EE instead of doing crossword puzzles. Have the cash to completely kit out a learning lab.The first thing I learned (and I am just starting) is that the world has turned since I was a kid. Online compilers? (I started on a PDP-8 w/ punch tape, did my Ph.D. with punch cards and a typewriter). A $20USD calculator that does calculus? Pi, Arduino, etc? Used $100 DMMs that measure down to 1/10 microvolt?BTW, for the budget impaired, look at Diligent's Analog Discovery. Every EE instrument in one package for $300 USD Scope, DMM, Power supplies, wave generator, etc. You can breadboard and measure pretty much any parameter. In 1970, who would've thought it possible?Absolutely, transistors are going the way of the vacuum tubes I learned about.I am also a Swiss trained watchmaker. So I understand learning craft vs learning theory.Just as you do not NEED physics to service a watch in good condition or to replace parts, you do need a good understanding in classical physics to return a 1910 precision watch to function as such. This means understanding how the oscillator (balance assembly) works so that it can be corrected to bring the watch back to an error rate of 5 seconds per day across the 6 positions in which it can be found. (which is better than modern Rolex factory standard)..So yes, theory determines how far you can go even in craft.As for preparing for the future, I am a strong believer in classical liberal arts education. Not a post-High School trade school, but being given constant opportunities to think critically and analyze. This means good social science, good literature, good math, good physics and good chemistry at minimum.My wife and I found ourselves in positions that gave us access to interesting people. We had an opportunity to expose our daughter (in 9th grade) to the folks at Goddard preparing COBE, including John Mathers. I gave her one question to ask everyone. That question was "Did you go to school to prepare for this job?" Everyone one of them said, "No, this job did not exist".She was fortunate enough to get nominated by an alumni group to Princeton from a public high school. She studied Civil Engineering. This meant she was studying engineering in a liberal arts institution; not a dedicated engineering school where the liberal arts are treated as service courses. She went on to Imperial to get her Masters.So, to the young people who are preparing for the future. YES, get theory and math. YES develop manual craft skills. YES, it will help to master the underlying technologies (like ckt analysis and semiconductor theory.It will be a mistake to think that "training" for today's technology is the concern. The world changes very rapidly over just 20 years. I used to have to include buying computer time in my budget just to run SAS and SPSS.By definition, if you are STEM you are inquisitive by nature. That means you likely will want to learn throughout your life.The more you understand the first principles and the greater your breadth of knowledge, the greater will be your opportunities to be a leader.Just look at Civil Engineering. The oldest field. Today my daughter is designing pedestrian bridges that include a park and event venue over a river. It is not just about structure. It is about understanding social behavior and living plants.Then look at Bio Physics. How can you prepare what that will do in interface design?Get educated and do it broadly. The more you learn, the more you know!Regards,Dewey

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2023, 10:50:35 am
content: Heavily snipped sensible points...Quote from: watchmaker on October 15, 2023, 09:50:16 amFun, isn't itBut not everything has changed as fast as I would have liked. Example: started in 1979 with C on 8-bit micros, on return in 2015 it wasstillC on 8-bit micros. I had hoped for better, but at least Rust is becoming viable. Major difference: smaller faster cheaper, so that it is pocket money rather than a commercial investment.Some things have changed in that time; I'll highlight nanopower circuits and ADC/DAC performance. Both are gobsmacking improvements.QuoteYes indeed.Too many people here claim technicians are better than engineers. That's about as sensible as claiming nurses are better than doctors. Sometimes I need a doctor, sometimes I need a nurse; vive la difference!QuoteEducation courses that train you in which button to press in order to floggle a widget in Floogle1.2.4 are a waste of time.Education courses should train you in the fundamentals that will last a lifetime. Floggling widgets will be useful for 3 years and can be learned on the job.I realised that after reading Asimov's 1957 novella "Profession". The core points are as valid now as they were then. Fortunately it is available on the web:https://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.htmlI encourage youngsters to speed read it.

author: alligatorblues
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2023, 03:24:02 am
content: The first question a critical thinker will ask is, "Is this true." Philosophy teaches critical thinking, because there can be more than one correct answer. But there is one best answer. I read old books, so I have a pretty good idea of how things change. Changes come in cycles that repeat to some degree. In the Roman Empire, feminism was a big thing starting just prior to the middle ages, until about 700A.D. Women refused to perform domestic tasks. They refused to do anything. They simply rebelled against everything. When this happens, more female offspring are born, decreasing the value of women by the law of supply and demand. Women outnumbered men 5:4 then. Throughout all of history men have valued the same things in women: sensual beauty, chastity, fertility and obedience. That doesn't change.Practically overnight everything changed. Catholic monks built hospitals and became professors in medical colleges, because they hand copied the medical manuscripts borrowed from private owners, so each student could rent a copy. Mother church claimed that diseases have natural causes, and so could be treated by natural means. The Romans claimed infirmity was the anger of the gods at work. Mothers would treat their sick children with scorn and contempt, as to not incur the same punishment. When it was clear a child would not recover, his parents left him in the forest to starve, freeze, or be eaten alive. The same was done with the elderly.In the 400s, The Pope proclaimed that mothers are blood relation to their children, giving mothers legal rights to their children. Previously, when a child was born, the midwife handed it to its father, who looked the baby over for birth defects. If any were found, the father took the newborn outside, and bashed it on a big rock, threw it in the river, off a cliff, or just abandoned it in the forest. But, with hospitals and the proclamation of the Pope, mothers could take their sick children to see doctors, and most of them recovered. Fathers also could not kill their newborns without the mother's consent, which was never given.What I have written represents the greatest technological achievements of the first millennium! The Church went on to develop scientific method, which states: "All things taught as scientific fact must be based on rational observations and analysis of controlled, repeatable experiments. All Universities were once run by the Catholic Church, because it invented the University system. The scientific discoveries made between the 700s and the 1600s were all made by Catholics, mostly priests and monks.Which brings us to the third millennium, in which electricity has been a singular focus as the technology driver of choice, because it lends itself to a stable mathematical model that permits mathematical analysis and it's infinite possibilities. We live in the peak of a secular cycle, during which mankind is deprived of its greatest gifts: to create beauty, to make truly new discoveries, guidance that has stood the test of time, critical thinking, truth, love, joy, a sense of well-being, the ability of people to relate to each other, to respect each other, to honor commitments, accountability, happiness. But we have facts, mountains of them!

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2023, 08:41:13 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 15, 2023, 10:50:35 amAnd it shouldalwaysbe C on 8-bit micros. Computers are so shit now because too many people are employed as programmers while believing that all they need to know is "npm install *" - if it goes a bit slow, you buy a faster one. Even going straight to Rust has problems - why not experience a few of the reasons why you would want to be using Rust before actually doing it? Why not have the experience of writing a collection class and understand what might be inside std:collections?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2023, 09:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: aeberbach on October 16, 2023, 08:41:13 pmI first used collection classes in 1986.I next used them in 1988. Separately the failure to do so in C++ indicated to me that C++ was and is an answer to the wrong question.I used them in 1996, and that confirmed that they are a good indicator of a language that is worth learning.But all that is a distraction from the interesting points raised in the first post.

author: jgrossman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 12:59:17 am
content: Quote from: aeberbach on October 16, 2023, 08:41:13 pmhttps://www.npmjs.com/package/left-pad

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 06:51:38 am
content: Hey Dewey:Watchmakers! Yea. I've attempted to expand the computer domain, into some interesting mechanical implementations, and so thus my interest in your background, as you've narrated. A Watchmaker was a sort-of symbol, for the miniaturized gates, busses, etc. in implementing 'standard', recognizable internal workings, that mimic the transistor stuff,...architecture wise.Maybe, like you said, but in this case; 8-bit, no C language.Purchased book, by Laurie Penman, 'Practical Escapements', and those concepts provided me a bank of 'images' to put out as symbolic, of the mechanical logic.Not many insurmountable problems on the engineering / technician side. No, it was the (local) social and economics issues, that brought down that whole R&D design center. Last straw there, was the crime and local political (fools), circa. 2003. Got a US Patent application through the door. Ironically, my document package was sent off, just about Sept 8, 2001,...and that got caught up in the whole mess, after 9-11, temporarily, with the ANTHRAX scare. But that's just a scary story to tell, now.US 20030172205 is the application.-Rick

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 02:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on October 17, 2023, 06:51:38 amRick,I love it. I think the more ways to conceptualize available to learners, the greater the chances of learning.BTW, Anthrax, sniper; lived it. Was in MD and wife worked in DC. And no evidence tied to the microbiologist they all wanted to blame. Like the guy who found the bomb at the Atlanta Olympics. Conclusions before data. That is the scary part for me.Regards,Dewey

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 03:12:49 pm
content: In the system, when used as a motivating training tool, you, (the instructor) can tell the kids / adult students that a microprogram has a sort-of 'analog-like' quality as it 'steps' through a series of instructions (micro-instructions). I'm using that term to emphasize that it's lowest level BUS stuff, often not seen by the higher level programmers. Very much, in this sense the layout I chose resembles a Z-80, in basics.But (the teacher or presentor) can point out that the singular 'motions' are individual, i.e. 'clocked' and thus are very digital and discontinuous; meanwhile involving the continuous nature, of the flow through steps of a micro-program. Meaning that microcode runs in 'linear' bursts, having jumps and branches occasionally. With a 'PINBALL' actuated method, the ball position closely tracks as a pseudo address counter, 'flowing' down through the general logic gates, and having a horizontal position encoding that gets modified.So, that modification, into other vertical lanes, is literally a single processing step. For example addition +1 or increment of a number would involve pushing the ball path over (to enter the next conduit on the BUS).That means a 'UNARY' BUS, coded by position, very similar to the powers of two encoding that binary systems use.Very hard, initially, to wrap head around that, where a 'decimal' BUS simply has ten lines; zero thru 9.I've termed that steel ball signal to be a 'mass-pulse', essentially. Going DECIMAL sounds old-school, (1940), but that's just an efficient bundle size, for a BUS that also has time-multiplex features, if you are going to higher number ranges, like 0 to 100. That range is pretty decent, and resembles the capacity of a traditional 8-bit BUS.Yes, I love those aspects. The engineering aspects are fairly easy, but it's the novelty aspects that can be daunting!I mean, ...Who wants a slow, mechanical decimal oriented system, that resembles a 1920's lab effort? ! ,(lol)