A cost-effective upgrade from a 6022BL from a beginner? *UPDATED - NEW SCOPE* - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 04:57:58 am
content: Hi, sorry to have yet another 'I'm green as grass; which scope should I buy but it has to be cheap?' question, but here goes...To be brutally honest, I'm kind of sick of this thing. Yes it displays waveforms, but that's about all it does. I've learned more about drivers than I have electronics or oscilloscopes. I didn't really expect to have triggering so basic it's effectively useless for any vaguely non-sinusoidal or non-square waveforms. I also didn't expect the only options to be math functions and software persistence, either.Basically, I'm feeling like this scope is a bit too basic, even for a beginner, and I've never been able to make the LA work, as much as I've wanted to play around with it and some signals. I also consider the lack of usb isolation to be a somewhat limiting factor. I'd very much like to be able to measure power supply ripple without blowing the scope or laptop to pieces, and hopefully without buying a $4-500 diff probe. If I have to have the diff probe to stay safe, well, can't change that. I know I could just run the laptop off battery power, but even so, I'd appreciate not being electrocuted for at least a few more weeks if I can avoid it - so there's that.I'd like the scope to be portable or USB-based, if only for the fact that it makes car work, which is something I do a lot, that much easier. I'd love a desktop scope, but that's, well, out of the 'scope' of the budget right now - as much as I'd love to have even a lowly Rigol. Unfortunately, nobody loves me that much to just give one to me. Should've bought one when I was working and I had the chance.Although, please do feel free to recommend some benchtop scopes for future reference. Other things that would be *very* nice include OBD2, CAN, USB, and RS-232/485 decoding, but it's not absolutely critical, especially 485. Really, I just want a reliable platform I can build my knowledge from, because electronics is something I've loved ever since I could walk and talk at the same time, much to the chagrin of my family. Unless I'm doing something wrong, which is always highly likely with me, I'm overall disappointed with this Hantek unit.Budget, I have not got a clue. I'm just throwing around ideas and window shopping at the moment. Basically, I just want a scope that actually fscking works. I don't want to dick around with drivers all goddamn day, I just want to be able to plug the damn thing in, hook the probe around something, and get a bloody waveform on the screen. Is that so damn hard to ask?No I'm not bitter!Thanks,RoryEDIT: I've bought a DreamSource Lab U2P20. See my latest post, and do let me know if you'd like me to try my hand at a 'proper' review:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/a-cost-effective-upgrade-from-a-6022bl-from-a-beginner/msg3140654/#msg3140654

author: stafil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 06:00:38 am
content: Have a look athttps://www.dreamsourcelab.com/product/dscope-series/maybe?

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 06:42:03 am
content: Quote from: stafil on March 30, 2020, 06:00:38 amThe website is down.Ooooooh! I liiiiiiiiiiike.Will definitely be doing my homework into this, since I never did it as a kid and look where that got me.Thanks!Rory

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 06:58:32 am
content: I feel your pain. I have the same one and rarely use it because the software sucks so much. I get better results with my Hitachi analog scope.Have you or anyone else here used OpenHantek6022 . I've down loaded it but have never got around to building the program. Is it worth the effort ?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 07:08:05 am
content: Have a serious look at the Micsig range if you are into Cars. There are several stockist in Oz if you can get to one of them for a look. I have had the LiPo Battery version for a few years and it was after suffering at the hands of a 6022BL for several years before thatAt the time when I got mine it came with a bunch of decoders thrown in from their Aliexpress Storehttps://micsig.aliexpress.com/store/1293611and it has been great for the Bench or out onsite doing repairs.Apart from this the usual fanboys of Siglent vs Rigol vs the rest will no doubt be along soonhttp://micsig.com/

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 09:37:40 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/Far better scope triggering than the 6022, the 'I' version gives you USB isolation, and cheap. It won't give you logic analyser functions though.For logic analyser functionality and protocol decoding, a cheap $10 ebay Saleae clone, running under Sigrok Pulseview will be far superior, but lacks USB isolation. I think the 6022BL is supported under Sigrok too (the LA section is basically the same as the Saleae 8 bit clone). You could use a USB isolator, but it would reduce useable sample rate.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 11:17:58 am
content: Quote from: stafil on March 30, 2020, 06:00:38 amThat looks cool, I can't compare this by size to other scope's, since SMD stuff is so small, but what gets left out from an equivalent spec'd 100MHz 1GBS/s scope ?I'd love to have 1 that hooks to my PC, for unimportant stuff, and for the quickness of doing something, since I'm at my PC all day anyways.I bet the price goes to the moon on some of them. I'm not meaning to thread jack, just wondering what the difference is between say a)$500 standard DSO)$500 USB scope

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 01:45:17 pm
content: You could take a look at the Hantek 2000 series handhelds, maybe inparticular the 2d82 which is marketed as an automotive oscilloscope.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 03:04:21 pm
content: There have been more than a couple of nearly identical threads re: oscilloscopes in the last week. Newcomers wanting to get something decent but not too pricey.When it comes to USB things, I prefer the Digilent Analog Discovery 2 (AD2) because it does absolutely everything a beginner is likely to need and fits easily in a backpack along with a laptop.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/i-want-to-set-up-my-own-workbench-advice-needed-for-a-complete-newb/msg2983316/#msg2983316In that thread there is some text and a link to:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/starter-scope/50/Start around Message 52 and follow along. I doubt there is any other device that provides the capabilities of the AD2. I have the Rigol DS1054Z and while it is a great scope, the AD2 is a LOT more than just a simple scope. In effect, it is a 2 channel 30 MHz scope with a two channel Arbitrary Waveform Generator and 16 Digital IOs that can function as a logic analyzer and protocol decoder.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 04:06:48 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/six-software-apps-to-use-with-the-hantek-6022be/

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 07:29:38 am
content: Quote from: Jwillis on March 30, 2020, 06:58:32 amYeah, I've downloaded it, but haven't gotten around to using it, honestly. Honestly, I don't really have the desire to build it myself (I'm on Windows), because I've lost basically all interest in this scope. I'm so tired of faffing around with drivers that the idea of trying it yet again just about strikes the fear of god into me.Quote from: beanflying on March 30, 2020, 07:08:05 amI know full well of the Micsig range. As much as I love them, and would genuinely consider murder if it meant I got to play with one - hell, I'll even review one on camera as someone brand new to a real oscilloscope - they're just a little too expensive for me right now. It's probably a good thing I don't even get $800 a fortnight, because I'd probably spend every cent if it meant I could have one. That being said, they are *juuuuuuust* on the cusp of being something I could actually blow some dosh on with this coronavirus happenings going on right now. But, I really shouldn't.Quote from: Gyro on March 30, 2020, 09:37:40 amYeah, I was actually looking at this. They seem to be a quarter-arsed decent scope with actual scope hardware inside. I've been seriously thinking about it. As for the LA part, I would find an LA really useful, even if I had to pay just a few dollars extra for a separate device. As long as I'm not losing anything with those Saleae clones, I may have a look at those, too. Thanks!Quote from: MathWizard on March 30, 2020, 11:17:58 amI'd like to know this, too. Surely there has to be a zero-compromise USB scope that *is* an oscilloscope just with a USB port. I'd love to know if this exists, even if it costs more. Seems like the Picoscope range might be a way to go? Would love to hear some input on this, particularly for the working on cars bit.Quote from: tunk on March 30, 2020, 01:45:17 pmI've seen those, and while I think they're interesting, honestly, after all the suffering I've gone through with this POS, I hope you understand if I'm a little apprehensive about going for another Hantek - particularly when their own software looks so garbage.Quote from: rstofer on March 30, 2020, 03:04:21 pmYeah, I know there have been other threads like this one, so I apologize for *yet another one*, but I kinda figured that mine might be just a little different enough to warrant its own thread, considering I already own an oscilloscope, and I already own *most* of the stuff that, admittedly awesome, Analog Discovery unit does. I have a DPS5020 power supply, and while I don't have an AWG, or really *any* waveform generator to speak of, I am on the lookout for one. I appreciate that this device can do it, but I'd honestly rather the price and space penalty when I can have a discrete device that does this potentially better, and potentially may be more useful as I don't need a BNC adapter, but I guess I'd need a BNC to adapt to something else if I want to feed the signal into a breadboard or something, so, they've got me there.I see the AD being quite useful for someone who is just learning electronics, so maybe I'm not as green as grass as I thought I was, since I do have *some* foundational understanding into what I need, what I don't need, what my current limitations are with the current hardware I have, etc etc. But if I wasn't this far along, I could definitely find use in the AD kit. I'll keep it in the back of my mind,and read the thread, anyway! Thanks!Quote from: Doctorandus_P on March 31, 2020, 04:06:48 pmUnfortunately, I've tried four of them - OpenHantek6022 and the Android ones I haven't tried - and they've all had the same basic feature set, which isn't much, sadly. I had the thinking that, maybe someone has come up with more functionality for these things in software, like better software triggering, or stuff like that, but I'm guessing oscilloscopes don't work like that, they're spitting out data far too quickly for a modest everyday computer to process in real-time? Either that, or you just cannot do most oscilloscope functions in software, but it seems like every program is more or less the same, just wrapped in different cladding. Either way, I've tried most on that list, and I'm still not left with a pleasant taste in my mouth. I still feel short-changed. I thank you for bringing it to my attention, though, and apologize that I'm kind of dismissing it outright like a jerk - this was far from the intention!Now that I'm just about caught up with all you fine folks, it seems that I have two major choices floating around in my head. The Owon VDS1102 - or something else from that line,and the DScope U2P20 - or something else from *that* line.Now, what I don't like about the Owon, is the *stupid* use of a USB A-A cable, when they could have easily gone for a A-B cable - like everybody else. I really like the DScope's use of a USB-C port - it's a nice compromise between USB-B and microUSB, I think - never liked microUSB especially on devices that cost proper dosh, seems like C would break less easily, and everything is switching to it these days, so why not use it. Or why not use B. But dear god, why would use A on any device. It's not the only device I've seen it on either. But either way, it's a pain.I like the DScope hardware, by the looks, and the software looks *reasonable* in playing around with a demo device, but I don't know what the Owon software would be like, and it seems like it's the slightly more well known scope here.What are your thoughts, as someone who knows very little about oscilloscopes? What should I look out for? What should be a deal-breaker for me as someone newish (but not entirely brand new) to electronics, who wants to learn about oscilloscope, wants to keep this scope for at least a little while longer than the 6022BL POS I have? Basically I'd like a *real* oscilloscope with *real*chocolabits inside, inside something with a USB port on it - that's really all I want.Right now it's a tie between theVDS1022, and theU2P20. As for the logic analyzer, really don't know - haven't done my homework here yet. I probably should, considering OBD, CAN, USB, and RS-232 etc, are all things I'd like to play with. I feel like I'd get more mileage out of a logic analyzer for these tasks, than an actual oscilloscope? Am I right here, or am I not understanding the purpose of a logic analyzer correctly? Either way, I don't mind spending *a few* bucks on a decent LA, as long as it doesn't break the bank too badly, and as long as I can get good software in the mix. P.S. I also like that the DScope series supports active probes, but I can't help wondering if those active probes are proprietary to each manufacturer, or if they conform to some standard I'm obviously not aware of.The other thing that seems to make or break these devices apart from the devices itself, is the software. Clearly I've not had a great software experience with this Hantek, even if there is a somewhat vibrant open source community out there that deals with these scopes and whatnot. But as I mentioned kind of in the form of a question earlier, I'm guessing there are just some things an oscilloscope does that cannot be replicated in software, and that if it's missing the hardware that runs those features, you miss those features entirely?Thanks, all,Rory

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 04:48:00 pm
content: It might be a good idea to consider how these USB based scopes isolate from the PC they are connected too. They might be usable in low voltage circuitry but I would not feel real comfortable with them connected to a expensive laptop / desktop if the plan is to move beyond low voltage (logic level) circuitry, That being said I'd real would love to see even more USB based instruments.Quote from: stafil on March 30, 2020, 06:00:38 am

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 11:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: rawrs on April 04, 2020, 07:29:38 amOn Windows 10 , it was a nightmare . Works better on Windows 7(less crashing) . The unit it's self is to light for a door stop So I thought about different programs to mess around with.

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:58:28 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on April 04, 2020, 04:48:00 pmYeah, I did give this a thought, but theoretically, I should be right if I use a differential probe? Granted these things get expensive real quick, but I could also potentially use a separate USB isolator to be safe. I'd very much like to characterise switching power supplies as one of my main uses for the scope, which is one of the things that makes the Owon look good, at least they seem to have done isolation somewhat properly.What about these active probes that the DScope supports? Is there any real point to getting a scope that supports these, even if it's for later on down the line? Do active probes conform to a particular standard?Quote from: Jwillis on April 04, 2020, 11:21:06 pmI figured the software may have had problems otherwise someone would have already built it. I wish you the best of luck in making it play nice, but sad to say, I'm pretty much done. Looking at something better while I'm able to.Thanks,Rory

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 08:03:34 am
content: With reference to your Picoscope question:- I don't have a Picoscope. So you will have to judge for yourself.- You candownloadthe Picoscope software and run it in "demo" mode to get a feel for it.- The Picoscope software is the SAME for ALL scope versions. Therefore, it should be very feature rich.- There are also a number ofvideos.Decoders:"PicoScope can decode 1-Wire, ARINC 429,CAN & CAN FD,DALI, DCC, DMX512, Ethernet, FlexRay, I²C, I²S, LIN,Manchester, MODBUS, PS/2, SENT, SPI, UART (RS-232 / RS-422 / RS-485),and USB 1.1 protocol data as standard, with more protocols in developmentand available in the future with free-of-charge software upgrades."Note:CAN bus (automotive) sniffing tools?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/can-bus-(automotive)-sniffing-tools/msg2992474/#msg2992474

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 09:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: rawrs on April 05, 2020, 05:58:28 amAs for the isolator if it can be installed without causing problems it should save your PC. But it would need to isolate both the power and signal lines in my estimation.QuoteJust remember software is a moving target. Windows 10 all by itself was crap when first released, it has gotten far better. I would expect the same for any app supporting any USB based instrument. Sadly if somebody has a dislike for something USB based you really need to ask them what the OS is (including the service pack revision) and the revision of the app itself.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 02:10:39 am
content: Why did you only try 4 of the 6 applications, if you still haven't found a decent one?But they're all going to be basic. There simply is not much performance in the 6022BL.For more performance you leave the "cost-effective" part very fast, though it is a relative term.There are pretty cheap USB isolators from Ebay / Ali / China, around USD10 or so.Alternatively, use a powered USB hub. It's not isolation, but it can be the difference between smoking your PC or smoking a EUD10 box.For a signal generator I bought the JDS6600. I bought the version with the lowest bandwidth, which is still plenty. It's not a geat signal generator, but it has lot's of options, has a very reasonable user interface. It has some minor bugs but I don't mind them much, though usually I'm pretty sensitive to this.

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 06:41:36 am
content: The software may be a moving target, but when the thing is so basic the firmware isn't even stored on the device and has to be uploaded each and every time, you're always going to be at the whim of whether the driver wants to work or not. I suppose this can be said of most anything, but either way, I'm kind of over it in general. With regards to only trying 4 out of the 6 options available: a) I don't currently have a working Droid device, and I'm sure as hell not buying one for this - I could put that money towards a better scope instead. b) it can be argued that I should only need to try *once* for software that actually bloody works, anything beyond that is diminishing returns when it's not a lot more capital for a *big* step-up in pretty much every conceivable way.I think I'm gonna go the route of the DScope plus BYO isolator if I need it (i.e. if I'm working with logic, I may not bother, but if I'm working with something slightly shady, yeah I might use it). From having a quick toy with the software, the software appears to be reasonable, and I am really liking the look of the hardware in general. I will do one last round of homework before I pull the trigger, though, and report back.The main problem I'm having with the Owon is that there seems to be loads of different builds of their software for what is a vaguely similar family of scopes. As for the stupid use of a USB-A device connector - if that's my only complaint about the hardware, they can't be doing much wrong. Plastic BNCs are probably neither here nor there for the price point, but it would've been nice to see them if a below bottom end Hantek can manage it.Cheers

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 07:27:53 am
content: Quote from: rawrs on April 04, 2020, 07:29:38 amI don't think you have to build it yourself, it looks like there are pre-built binaries at:https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/releases/download/3.0.3/OpenHantek-Win-x64-Release-b237.zipand:https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/releases/download/3.0.3/OpenHantek-Win-x86-Release-b237.zip

author: horo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 10:19:50 am
content: OpenHantek6022 also works on RaspberryPi (at least up to RPi3, RPi4 uses a different OpenGL that doesn't work (yet) with Qt), I provide RPI packages, so you can try it there if you're not able to install it on your Windows (nevertheless, it's easy - just use zadig twice for the USB access).https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/releases/download/3.0.4b/openhantek_20200414-52c9236_armhf.debQuote from: rawrs on March 30, 2020, 04:57:58 amIt's always a bad idea to isolate the measuring device instead of the DUT - please have a look at Dave's advice and some other expertise:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/msg2716620/#msg2716620Martin

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 01:12:16 am
content: Hi all, just thought I'd give an update.I somewhat drunk (well, inebriated) ordered the DreamSource U2P20 - the cheapest one they have. All I wanted was a decent, affordable scope that just bloody works when you plug it in....and that's exactly what I got. I've barely done anything with it, and it already shits on the Hantek and from a great height. Poking around an RTL-SDR (because it was the first thing I had to hand that I could easily probe about with, hitting 'auto' makes some relays click (something the Hantek doesn't do), and eventually, it settles down onto a rather nice, 28MHz sawtooth-y signal. The important thing being, that it actually bloody triggers properly. There are loads of triggering options that I'll play with in due time, and you can even pick various data points and have them on screen, being updated in real-time (or very, very close to it, anyway). Having, for example, duty cycle, right there on the main screen, is *awesome*.If I had any gripes, it's with the software. Don't worry - it's solid software. But I feel they could make better use of the space in some areas, and I suppose it is a little light on features. I feel I should note that while development is currently what I'd consider to be active, it appeared to have stagnated for a few years prior to now. The important thing here, though, is that both the software and firmware are open-source (not sure about the hardware?), and there are active git commits. As of time of writing, the last commit seems to have been about 3 weeks ago. The last stable release was mid-May or June, one of the two. Either way, not too bad.The thing I want to stress here, is that the thing just bloody works. I'm sure you could have the 6022 work, too, but I was tired of making it try, and I was tired of faffing about with drivers. With DScope, I installed the software, the drivers came with it, the worst you may need to do is restart (I don't remember now), but after install, you just plug the thing in, and it just works.Plug it in. Get a waveform on the screen. That's really all I wanted *for now* - playing with CAN, OBD, etc, well, I can just get one of these guys' LAs, or a Saleae clone in a pinch, but I do wonder if I get an LA, if that will allow me to have some form of MSO with two pieces of hardware and one piece of software. The nice thing about DreamSource hardware, is that they have *one* piece of software. You have a downloader for Windows, OS X, and some form(s) of Linux. That one piece of software works with every piece of hardware. That's it. Done.If you guys would like an actual review, I guess I could try my hand at it, but I'm still learning at the moment! I am, however, interested by this thing's inclusion of active probe jacks. The probes it comes with do appear to be decent, but they're just standard x1/x10 probes. 60MHz, which for a 50MHz unit, I guess is just fine.But yeah. I like. I like a lot. I'm glad I took the plunge, and I'm very thankful that you guys twigged me onto this company, because I never would have found them otherwise. USB isolation I can do whenever the hell I want, but I think for learning, I'm going to abstain from anything more than a mild fire hazard if things somehow go wrong. Either that or I could just unplug the laptop, I guess.Thanks!Rory