Beginner here, Help me buy a good soldering iron. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 10:17:55 pm
content: I am a beginner and I am looking to buy a good soldering iron.Here are the things that I want to do:QuoteHere is the soldering kit that I have. I bought it for cheap. I think this is not the ideal iron:https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01N46T138/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1Here are the soldering irons that I am considering:QuoteWhich one should I go for ? Any other recommendations in the same price range ?

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 10:39:00 pm
content: I would go with a T12 clone such as the KSGER, especially if your on a limited budget.You do have to factor in that it runs on 12 to 24V and have to add a power supply. But it can be a laptop brick or even just an extra plug you make on your lab power supply. (maybe with extra small SMPS module)Don't buy the cheapest handle for a T12 clone. There are multiple variants, the very cheap ones are garbage, for about EUR10 to EUR15 you have a decent handle.An orignal Hakko probably has longer tip life and a bit better build quality.With a T12 clone however, you can get a lot of different tip sizes for cheap, and they last quite a while. When the tip sizes you use most wear out, then you can consider buying better quality tips for those.Then you have the best of both worlds. An assortment of tips for different jobs, and a lasting one for your favorite tip model. (or just buy some extra's of the cheap versions and consider them consumables).The cheap wellers are garbage. I've got a Weller PU81 with a WSP80 and it cost me around EUR350, and it's OK-ish and it does the job but not great. I'd rather have a T12 clone, but I only discovered that years after buying the Weller. Ali wasn't such a big thing back then.My weller has two design flaws. First, the stiff metal tube that should nold the tip in place expands and contracts with heating and cooling, so the tip works loose and starts wobbling far to often. The second flaw is the small contact area between the heating element and the tip. It can not put it's 80Watts of power well into a thick solder joint.

author: figurativelythedevil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 10:42:33 pm
content: Out of these I would also pick the T12 clone, active tips really blow away old school soldering irons these days. Another good option imo is the TS-100 or the Pinecil, I like the Pinecil a little more because it's all open source and has USB-C PD input, but the TS-100 is great also. They both use the same style active tips, also.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 10:50:13 pm
content: I was very tempted by the TS100 when it first arrived, but still prefer a T12 clone.There is a very limited amount of tip sizes available for the TS100, and the tips stick out much further then with the T12, and this gives you less control during soldering, which is especially important with SMT.Also, if you damage the handle or the tip to handle contacts ( exchanging tips is common), then a replacement handle for the T12 is much cheaper to replace then the the TS100.If the small size of the TS100 (whole iron in the handle) is a plus for you then it may still be a good choice though, but for normal benchtop use I prefer a bigger readable display with a rotary knob of the T12, but that is a personal choice.

author: figurativelythedevil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 10:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on September 18, 2021, 10:50:13 pmSolid points, I've only used the Pinecil so I didn't have this insight. If I ever need another cheaper soldering iron I'll remember this. Right now I'm using an ADS200

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 10:55:15 pm
content: (1) Some KSGER T12 models have the power supply built in. I will get one of these.(2) KSGER T12s are $120 CDN on amazon.ca and $70 CDN on eBay.ca, are there any differences ?(3) Do these tips work well with a KSGER T12 model ?:https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07ZD4ZHJ1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_X0SH2Q15FEEYX4S006BM?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2021, 11:10:59 pm
content: I am looking at two KSGER T12 V2.1S: One comes with theFX9501 Handleand the other comes with the907 Handle.... which one is better ?Also, Which handle works best with KSGER T12 ? links please.Which one of the following should I go with:(1)https://www.amazon.ca/KSGER-Soldering-Temperature-Controller-Electric/dp/B07PWVZ3TP/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&m=AERRVM3FYX381&marketplaceID=A2EUQ1WTGCTBG2&qid=1632009919&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1(2)https://www.amazon.ca/KSGER-Soldering-Temperature-Controller-Auto-Sleep/dp/B08F486D72/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&m=AERRVM3FYX381&marketplaceID=A2EUQ1WTGCTBG2&qid=1632009919&s=merchant-items&sr=1-2

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 01:15:13 am
content: Sometimes, when unmounting things, only hot air will work. It may, or may not, be necessary for the reinstallation.Google around for 'soldering techniques' or 'desoldering techniques'. Lots of videos and web sites...

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 01:43:48 am
content: I am also considering to buy this:https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07H4RHZ21/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A2Y5A9EJOATN16&psc=1

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 01:44:38 am
content: Functionally , both are identical . Neither ,as far as i can tell , come with a power plug . So that needs consideration.The handles both take T12 tips and probably function the same . But vary in dimensions .

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 02:42:17 am
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 18, 2021, 11:10:59 pmThey have the same performance, the main differences are in ergonomics: FX9501, due to the smaller tip's extension length, gives somewhat better control and less fuss with replacing the tips. On the other hand, it does not fit into the old stands designed for Hakko 936 clones.

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 02:52:14 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 19, 2021, 01:15:13 amI chose the handle with the shorter tip to handle difference. Also I don't want to have to turn a collar to change tips.

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 03:28:20 am
content: Are there any other handles out there that are compatible with the Ksger ? links please.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 03:33:09 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on September 18, 2021, 10:39:00 pm+1 for T12 clone with genuine TIP on it.You can get the soldering station for like USD$40 on places like aliexpress, then pay $25 for a genuine tip.That is by far the best value for money.Though im not sure which ones have a good handle and which ones dont. Might have to look at some reviews.The KSGER one mentioned above looks similar to one a friend got who is really happy with it.I recommend a medium/small knife tip for general use. You can use the point for small stuff and the long edge for bigger stuff.

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 03:38:32 am
content: QuoteCan you post a link to where I can buy a genuine T12 tip ? All the ones I see on amazon.ca don't look genuine...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 03:44:34 am
content: I believe you can interchange T12 and T15 tips, but wait for someone else to confirm that.For some reason i'm having issues finding any T12/T15 at genuine stores. Maybe they are trying to obsolete it due to all the clones hahaNext up... serialized iron tips.I do recall that the tip that my friend got with his aliexpress iron was actually ok, but non-genuine tips really are a lottery.

author: MultiMike
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 04:03:14 am
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 18, 2021, 10:55:15 pmThat's what I bought. I can see the appeal of the ones without the power supply if you wanted to do remote work (you could run it off of a pair of car batteries in series).QuoteI bought this one:https://www.banggood.com/KSGER-T12-STM32-V3_1S-Welding-Soldering-Iron-Station-OLED-DIY-Plastic-Handle-Electric-Tools-Quick-Heating-T12-Iron-Tips-8s-Tins-907-9501-Handle-with-3Pcs-T12-Tips-p-1695566.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN&ID=514178I am very happy with it. I had it shipped from the 'states, but it took longer to arrive than other things I ordered that came straight from China. It comes with usable tips. Some don't like this style of handle as much because the stickout is longer, but it has the benefit of locking the tip in so it can't loosen up when you use it.Strictly speaking any T12 tip should work in the KSGER, but if it's a really bizarre one, like something that is supposed to unsolder an entire quad chip in one go, then the tip might not exist in the tip selection menu so maybe the calibration would be more annoying. The tips that came with the one I bought were a D24 which is a chisel/screwdriver tip about 1/8" wide, which is what I use virtually all of the time, a thin point that may have value soldering surface mount components, and comes in handy clearing out through-holes in boards, and a knife tip which has value when soldering wires together or welding a big MOSFET or something like that down.Some people whine about the standby mode, but you can set the delay or even turn it off. I leave mine with a 5 minute standby at 50C. This thing heats up so bloody fast that it doesn't matter. By the time I'm done thinking about what I'm going to do it's ready to go. I like my KSGER way more than I like the Weller station that I have at work (which is not a high-end Weller station... one of those new 110NA or whatever things).Mike

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 04:09:45 am
content: Have a look at the KSGER official store on AliExpress, and see all the products they offer. Then decide if you want to buy directly via AliExpress, or some other shopping site:https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1486111

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 08:28:56 pm
content: Is the official KSGER store on aliexpress legit ? or should I buy from the official KSGER store on amazon.ca ? is the quality different ?

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 09:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 19, 2021, 08:28:56 pmAFAIK, the official KSGER store on AliExpress is legit, as are other official stores on AliExpress. The reason why I recommended to look on the official store on AliExpress is that time and time again, when I look at official stores on Amazon, they're far from complete, compared to on AliExpress, specifically for Chinese manufacturers. I've never see an official store of a Chinese manufacturer on Amazon list all the company products. I'm not sure why that is nor do I know if it's just a coincidence in the stores I've checked or not.

author: MultiMike
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 09:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 19, 2021, 08:28:56 pmI bought mine off of Banggood, and it's been working well for me. I can't speak to Amazon or Ali Express. There are other versions of this same soldering station, like the Quicki, which is even cheaper, but I like the KSGER 3.1 that I bought. It doesn't come with an iron rest, though. I bought the generic fake Hakko one and it fits this iron just fine. I have heard that the aluminum irons don't fit that one.Mike

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 09:38:27 pm
content: OK I ordered aV3.1Sand the following tips:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32758473985.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da34c4dVjLnysAre the tips compatible with the V3.1S ?

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 09:49:30 pm
content: Quote from: MultiMike on September 19, 2021, 09:20:20 pmI just had a look on Banggood. I never use them, nor really ever visit the site anymore, and one visit made me realize just how horrible they are and the reason I avoid them at all costs. For instance, searching for KSGER products, for the life of me, I can't even see who the vendor is for any of the items. It might be direct from KSGER, or it might not be. There's nothing to show the satisfaction customers have with the vendor, and a ton of other features that are available with AliExpress. If I'm doing something wrong, someone please explain to me, how do you see who the vendor is on Banggood, and how do you see the satisfaction rating and reviews of that vendor?

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2021, 09:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 19, 2021, 09:38:27 pmSometimes (most of the times) the English of the vendors on AliExpress leaves a lot to be desired. It's one of the disadvantages of buying direct. But usually you can make it out if you pause for a bit to think what they're saying. For the item you questioned about, they say in the description, "Apply soldering station: STM32 OLED, FX-951, STC T12, all KSGER station." To me, it means it's compatible.

author: MultiMike
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 09:50:09 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 19, 2021, 09:49:30 pmHonestly, I've never thought about it. I look at the reviews for the item, the brand name of the item, and the satisfaction rating for that item, and if people are bitching about poor customer service, etc. then that would certainly affect my interest in the item, but I've never really cared who was selling it. I have received everything I have purchased and I haven't had a problem. Delivery times vary, but I expect that. I assume your worry is that you could be getting counterfeit product. That's a valid worry, but it's not one that has affected my purchasing as yet.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 10:05:36 am
content: Quote from: MultiMike on September 20, 2021, 09:50:09 amNot just that they could send a counterfeit product, but perhaps a defective product, a used product, not send anything, or long delays in sending an item. On AliExpress, each vendor gets a percent rating, and if ever the rating is less than 95%, I seriously reconsider ordering from them. The products themselves have ratings, and the vendor also. It makes a big difference to me in feeling more confident in ordering stuff directly from Chinese companies. I had one bad experience on AliExpress, with a vendor that played games and never shipped the goods, and AliExpress stepped in and I quickly got a refund. For most things I order, there's generally a number of different vendors selling the same thing, so I check how many people have ordered from each, the price differences, and the vendor ratings in order to make my decision. Banggood is a far cry in providing that information, compared to AliExpress from what I see.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 02:42:08 pm
content: I just did a random search on Ali for "T12 Handle", and among others, the link below popped up.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32965564853.htmlIt has some pictures of the inside of various handles.Some have 2 pieces of FR4 wit single wipe contacts, others have a plastic tube with moulded in connectors.About the "fit" of the handles with KGSER station. It's just a connector on the end of a wire.The only extra's in the handle are a tilt switch to detect movement, and an NTC, and I think this is to detect / prevent overheating of the handle itself. Apparently both 4pin and 5 pin connectors are used, so you may have to pay some attention to that, or just buy some extra connectors.You can also buy the wire between the handle and the connector separately, or bundled with a handle as a set. The cheaper versions probably are PVC, while the better versions have silly cone.You can also buy the control PCB with O-LED and rotary button as a spare part for just over EUR20. A spare may ease your mind if you have intentions of re-flashing the software to remove some "feature" that irritates you. I think a bunch of firmware variants float around on sourececode distribution sites, packed in git repositories.

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 04:09:54 pm
content: QuoteThis is the one that I ordered:Is this ok ? or do you recommend ordering another type ? if so, which one from the site that you posted ?

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 04:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 18, 2021, 10:17:55 pmThe answer to your question is Metcal.Buy once, cry once.

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 07:55:52 pm
content: Are there any differences between the mini version and the one with power supply built in ?Does the V3.1S have grounding issues ? Do you recommend fixing the grounding issue ?

author: MultiMike
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 10:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on September 20, 2021, 04:09:54 pmI don't have that one so I can't speak from personal experience, but what I have heard is that those variants of the handles are narrower and don't fit the generic Hakko-like iron holders. If you have some other concept for holding your iron or are willing to make some modifications to the holder then you might be perfectly fine.I have seen a complaint that the tube that the tip is held in was too tight and needed to be modified for easier tip changes. I have seen other complaints that the tube was too loose and could, under certain circumstances, creep out of the handle enough that it loses contact and stops working until you push it back in.Again - no personal experience, here.Mike

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 08:53:12 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on September 20, 2021, 04:45:27 pmAlso Thermotronics make good stuff, and without the metcal tax.Though still not cheap.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 09:23:44 am
content: For small work, the TS100 is not bad, but you should probably factor a new chisel tip in the price; the conical standard tip is not so convincing. I have the TS100 in my portable tool kit, and for bench use I have aErsa i-Con Nanowhich has been very good to me. I almost exclusively work with TH pcb's and older technology (point-to-point wiring and cables, et c), so if one's into newer assemblies, YMMV.

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 10:08:30 am
content: T12X by OSS team from Ali.It has much better offering then the ksger or quicko, with the stand, cleaning sponge and brass wire,silicon pad for removing tips on the go, May be a better power suplly then the ksger one's.It has new display with the power bar graph like the jbc, sleep/delay function etc etc. hack they even make their own t12 tips which is expensive then the other common t12 tips found on the internet.i am considering it my self for the upgrade from the Bakon 950d which i am using from the last 5 years before going the route of jbc/I2C t245 style configuration. Because i have accumulated 11 t12 tips of different size and shape so far so i can not leave the t12 configuration until they all die/vanish somehowBTW, i dont know how to save pic from ali or google in a usable format(jpg) rather then the stupid webp so i will post the Ali links here.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003198423402.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.456a2e0eIvILQEhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633176455.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.3.24a834e5DkX3n9&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.33416.213724.0&scm_id=1007.33416.213724.0&scm-url=1007.33416.213724.0&pvid=f7a12587-d099-4759-9a85-b663dcd1d6f2&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.33416.213724.0,pvid:f7a12587-d099-4759-9a85-b663dcd1d6f2,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238111%231996&&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sceneId%22:%2223416%22,%22sku_id%22:%2212000016902727040%22%7Dand the OSS team T12 tipshttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002511020868.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.28036705YaKto5&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=2a6cfff7-27ca-4be0-b05b-3dc9c4752248&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:2a6cfff7-27ca-4be0-b05b-3dc9c4752248,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238111%231996&&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sceneId%22:%223339%22,%22sku_id%22:%2212000020940642144%22%7DThere are Some sellers who are claiming to have genuine hakko tips of different shape. they are expensive then the t12 tips and OSS t12 tips.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001333500983.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.54b62e0e1vNbIuhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000673357540.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.54b62e0e1vNbIuhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001333574829.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.5fd52e0etBbTDl

author: mechkbfan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 24, 2022, 08:44:19 am
content: What was your final decision regarding soldering iron?Finding myself in a similar position. The last post of a OSS T12-X looked alright and removed some guess work for me.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2022, 09:34:32 am
content: Since decades ago we use genuine Metcal SP-200 stations and tips, and also the old Japanese Hakko 926, 936 station and tips.The Chinese knockoffs are faulty, poorly made and occasionally fail dangerously eg loss of temperature control, runaway and,ains leakage current due to faulty insulation system.As in everything else you get what you pay for.Bon courageJon

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:37:10 pm
content: t12-x is indeed a nice station. after that post i have gone ahead and got myself t12-x from Ali. Used it a lot inthe two years with my t12 style tips. i must say the handle with that nice jbc style silicone cable Relief and with the nice silicone cable was the real update for me from my old bakon station.But now i have upgraded again with a real soldering station i.e an Metcal Mx-500 with mx-h1-Av Advanced Hand piece and Mx-DS1 Desoldering Gun. it is awesome..

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:40:52 pm
content: Mx-H1-Av fits nicely in t12-x holder.

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:42:10 pm
content: Also mx-ds1