who's eating all the 100nF 0603 caps? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 08:57:13 am
content: I don't know if anyone else has noticed but go a search for 0603 0.1uF caps from either digikey, farnell or RS or whoever you use......where have they all gone?!

author: bob225
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:03:37 am
content: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/passive-components/capacitors/ceramic-multilayer-capacitors/?redirect-relevancy-data=636F3D3126696E3D4931384E53656172636847656E65726963266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C7061727469616C26706D3D5E2E2A2426706F3D31333326736E3D592673723D2673743D43415443485F414C4C5F44454641554C542673633D592677633D4E4F4E45267573743D30363033203130306E66267374613D30363033203130306E6626&r=f&searchTerm=0603%20100nfplenty there

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:06:37 am
content: Check the RS lead times. October/December on anything other than noddy quantities.Also all the 120nF ones are gone now as well.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:08:03 am
content: Quote from: bob225 on June 13, 2018, 09:03:37 amif you want to wait till october!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:10:32 am
content: Found some. TME has Yageo ones in half mil quantities:https://www.tme.eu/en/details/cc0603krx7r7104/0603-mlcc-smd-capacitors/yageo/cc0603krx7r7bb104/

author: bob225
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:13:47 am
content: try maplinI only ordered 10 100nf tants the other day with no issuehttps://www.rapidonline.com/w-rth-csgp-100nf-10-16vdc-mlcc-ceramic-capacitors-0603-61-5447rapid have a few

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:15:37 am
content: Lot of components get long leadtimes, economy is booming, factories are running 24/7.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:19:05 am
content: Quote from: bob225 on June 13, 2018, 09:13:47 amNeed a couple of thousandHere's the guff from a Farnell AgentQuoteI think I smell BS....this has never been a problem before?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:22:00 am
content: That smells like someone just paid more than Farnell were willing to.

author: bob225
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:34:04 am
content: Mouser has plenty stock, your have to take a hit on the shipping charge

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:43:51 am
content: Quote from: tron9000 on June 13, 2018, 09:19:05 amI rather smell someone has no clue. There is a thread about this on the forum.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/has-the-world-run-out-of-100nf-caps/As well you might use google to find out.https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/resources/marketeye/categories/passives/me-zogbi-20180302.htmlhttps://ec.kemet.com/mlcc_alternativeshttp://www.advancedmp.com/severe-mlcc-shortage/https://seekingalpha.com/article/4161711-passive-components-structural-supply-shortage-intensify

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:45:29 am
content: Quote from: bob225 on June 13, 2018, 09:34:04 amI would not say plenty, the vast majority of part numbers are not available and prices are much higher than a year ago.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:57:47 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 13, 2018, 09:43:51 amthat's why I'm here....think i'd be asking if i did? thanks for your links.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 10:06:13 am
content: further more I've just been talking to an assembly house. They said they were told a "while ago" to stock up on any passives starting with a 1...kind of implies this was forseen?

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 12:01:58 pm
content: As someone who works in the electronics industry, I can tell you there are definitely lead time problems with many otherwise rather common components.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 12:33:46 pm
content: Yes, I got confirmation from multiple sources for passive component shortage. I have too look up alternative components on a daily basis, because they cannot confirm component sourcingmonthsfrom now. It is really bad, I am considering to tell my boss, to expect prototypes delayed, because I cannot find stupid things like resistors in the right size. And this will last at least till next year.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 01:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: tron9000 on June 13, 2018, 08:57:13 amI had to buy a reel with 4000 pieces from Farnell a while ago. There wasn't any other alternative (except for buying more than one reel). It has been like this for a couple of months.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 02:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 13, 2018, 12:01:58 pmInclude me in this group.In my corporation, we have a dozen assembly facilities spread across three continents.I have a good acquaintance just went to the headquarters to discuss electronic component sourcing issues. He told me that many components are either on allocation or have huge lead times.Part of my job is to find substitutes for these scenarios. And indeed, I've had to use the trick to replace 0.1uF caps with 0.15uF or 0.2uF. Or in less-than-critical circuit applications, I go down to a lower value.Resistors are facing similar issues. Here I've substituted 5% tolerance devices with 1% tolerance.The big problem is of course, complex ICs. Our engineering, like most engineering departments, likes to stick with a particular microcontroller brand, as you have a single tool set which everyone is intimately knowledgeable with.But lately we have diversified to other three microcontroller vendors, for the same reason: many popular microcontroller types, specifically those used on the automotive environment, are on allocation. If you are not Ford, Toyota or VW, most likely you will be on allocation.

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 02:25:20 pm
content: The most annoying part for me is that the capacitors that are left are absolutely appalling in terms of DC bias. I've had to spend multiple hours finding replacement capacitors, and in the end I've typically had to increase the package size

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 02:46:21 pm
content: There is a worldwide shortage of MLCC caps as the three largest manufacturers are abandoning certain of their product lines to allocate production to more lucrative series. In essence : they stop making the cheapo stuff to make more lucrative parts (if you still don't get it : parts that are higher spec and go for more $$.)I just saw a 1uf 16v 0805 with 56 weeks lead time ...The same is happening for resistors. All that thick film stuff ? tata bye bye ...

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 03:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: tron9000 on June 13, 2018, 09:19:05 amIn around 1994/5 it did big time, everyone was talking about the "spot market", big telecom elephants was affected and bought from grand/pa/mom backyard outlet to get hold of components, that time it was mainly semiconductors and some passives i recall.These spot market suppliers made big time money from nothing, the prices for some components was just baffling.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 03:58:20 pm
content: That was triggered in part by a Sumitomo plant fire in Japan, which provided the semiconductor encapsulation resins for about 2/3 (or something in that ballpark) of the world's semiconductors.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 04:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 13, 2018, 02:46:21 pmHmm, but that would mean they give all that business to their competitors instead? or ar you saying there are basically only three manufacturers of MLCC caps?

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 04:59:21 pm
content: North korean neutrino stock market hft system

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 05:40:59 pm
content: https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20caphttps://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 05:47:00 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 13, 2018, 02:01:15 pmWe have had to do the same.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 06:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 13, 2018, 04:10:49 pmThe big three have >80% of the market volume ... the small guys don't have the volume to cope up with demand on the lines that are going out. They are fighting for 20% of volume between the 10 of them ...The big guys just shut down their lines to use them to build much more profitable parts. 0.1uf is NOT a money winner... take it, you can have it. we'll build more lucrative parts. the smartphone market is stagnant and the fabs are headed where there is growth : automotive and energy.Murata just invest 1 billion$ to convert their lines , and add 20% capacity ) to do automotive/energy only parts.-snip- Murata Manufacturing plans to invest as much as 100 billion yen ($933 million) through fiscal 2019 to boost capacity for electronic components used in electric vehicles, seeking a fresh growth driver as the smartphone market plateaus.The Japanese company will spend between 50 billion and 100 billion yen to expand ceramic capacitor production facilities in the western Japanese prefecture of Shimane and outside the Philippine capital of Manila. It aims to increase capacity by 20% with a focus on parts for electric vehicles. This would represent one of Murata's largest-ever investments in capacitors.Ceramic capacitors are used in autos to adjust electrical signals from key parts such as motors and inverters and ensure they function properly. Automotive capacitors require greater durability than those found in smartphones. The nascent autonomous-driving field is expected to bolster demand.-/snip-

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 07:42:37 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 13, 2018, 05:40:59 pmTrust me this 40K will disappear in about a minute. I told our supply chain manager to put half a million in our stock, from the 0402. And respinning the PCB for a different size is either 15K EUR in certifications, or breaking the law.And I work at a relatively small company.And the 0603 was some 20 EUR/reel not so long ago.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 08:01:58 pm
content: Starting to think I should start brokering components. Better than fucking around in the commodities and currency markets.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 08:07:36 pm
content: Naaaaah most components are only "good" for one or two years after which decent companies won't touch them.Besides, large companies have their fixed quotums set for each year, deals are made a year in advance and unless some product becomes unexpectedly popular they can and will produce what they planned to produce. So who to sell the old stock to

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 12:39:35 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on June 13, 2018, 07:42:37 pmOK,https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/murata/grm033r61a104ke15d-3074457345627045821/https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/apps/part-search.html?searchTerms=100nf%201608&inStock=&rohsCompliant=&leadFree=&containsLead=&sortAscending=false&sortx=P_TTIWebATS&x=trueDigikey has more than 40000, that is just the limit on their part selector on their web page. You just need to ask for more.However, price is high and places where they list above 10 million in quantity, it's on order, not in stock:https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/C0603C104M5RACTU?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0AnBnWHyRQG8EQLxJcrqdghOfJCcQoTg%3d

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 03:41:58 am
content: Most of our pcb-suppliers told is about the problem months ago and they massivly stocked up so they don't run out of caps.Let's see how long there stock lasts.I'm realy suprised that the cga-series from TDK is actualy aviable. I think these are quite decent caps.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 08:44:52 am
content: Quote from: mbless on June 13, 2018, 02:25:20 pmIncreasing in package size is not a bad thing in some respects:https://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5527.pdfQuote from: NANDBlog on June 13, 2018, 07:42:37 pmStill there! PO Being Raised as we speak! They didn't come up when I searched Digikey....Anyway I've had to order some 150nF from closer suppliers as well cos even 120nF are taking a hit.Quote from: MT on June 13, 2018, 03:18:34 pmRemember when Fukushima happened? There was a little lull in stock I remember, but nothing this bad. It recovered very quickly.This all seem very odd, the fact that there are some articles I've read that this was forecast, why has production not been ramped up prior? Guy I work with (bit of a doom merchant) said its all going into weapons and bombs for some sort of impending war! unlikely....I hope!

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 10:46:34 am
content: Quote from: tron9000 on June 13, 2018, 10:06:13 amSelf fulfilling prediction?Is 'smart tech' production really exploding, or are large companies just trying to buy twice their usual consumption to stock up?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 10:50:51 am
content: Quote from: tron9000 on June 14, 2018, 08:44:52 amHave you seen the topic with mlcc microcracks, for some reason I do not think they will put those in critical defense applications such as weapons and bombs, at least I hope they don't

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 10:51:15 am
content: They do actuallyOnly has to work once

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 04:56:49 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 14, 2018, 10:50:51 amMaybe they use the ones with flexible termination.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 08:23:11 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on June 14, 2018, 10:51:15 am....In the right place

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 01:41:24 pm
content: No C but R,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(de)-fs-30x-0603-resistor-kit/

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 10:41:06 pm
content: On my last assembly order, I specified a 0.1uF cap in stock at Digikey/Mouser. But I also specified that substitution was ok, because every assembler will have decoupling caps on hand, and my order was not in the 10K+ range. I also gave them a pretty wide range of acceptable capacitance, voltage, tolerance, and temp coefficient. They sent me an alternate part number for my approval, which I'm glad I looked at. They tried to slide me a 0.015uF part. No, that was not in my range. they came back with another part number which had the max specified capacitance I allowed for. They sure are hoarding their 0.1uF caps. I didn't know there was anything magical about that number other than familiarilty.QuoteThe main thing I would be concerned with is ESR. Going higher in value isn't necessarily better than lower, is it? Everything I've read has suggested 0.1uF is a ballpark figure for generic decoupling. A bit higheror lowershould be ok in most instances?

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 01:03:03 pm
content: Exactly, there is nothing magical about 0.1 uF, other than familiarity.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 01:55:56 pm
content: Mhhhhmmm.Cookiesceramic caps. Munch Munch!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 02:35:41 pm
content: better use a higher value because of capacitance drop under DC, if you target specific capacitance value. For decoupling it is just a generic ballpark value. To know what value works better for Your design you need to put a spectrum analyzer on the power bus and try different values to see what supresses the noise the best. You may have spurs or noise shaped in a particular frequency band so 0.1 may or may not work well. Following this methodology I used decoupling caps of 0.1 , 0.01. 1000pf, 100pf and 10pf at different points on the power bus depending on what was going on. Also physical size of the capacitor makes a difference how well it works for the purpose.

author: Eka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 03:42:14 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 13, 2018, 03:58:20 pmWhich lead to the fast development of many smaller chip packages that use very little encapsulation resins.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 07:49:39 am
content: Queue photoshoped image of rich guy in a swimming pool full of 10 billion 0201 100nf caps.