I need some computer advice :( - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Things
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 06:12:03 am
content: Hey all,I ordered some new computer parts the other day, and have put them together, and the computer is running fine. Except, every now and then it'll just randomly freeze. No BSoD, no events in the event viewer, nothing, just freeze, and occasionally it'll reboot itself. I have tried all the usual, updating drivers, updated Windows (7), flashed my BIOS with the latest version etc etc etc. Reseated my RAM, GPU, all that fun stuff.It seems to be very random, and not really dependent on computer load. For example, it can freeze while I'm playing minecraft, and just before it actually hard-rebooted, no BSoD again, just shut down instantly.When it did that, I instantly suspected my PSU may be having a few issues, but system voltages seem OK, with the 12V rail around 11.8V. Temps all seem in good shape too.I am running an i3 3240 on a B75M-D3H mobo, with 8GB of DDR3 and a HD4890 GPU, all on a Thermaltake 600W PSU. It's label states it can handle 15A on 1 12V rail, and 20A on another. The GPU at max load pulls about 270W, or 22A, however these crashes aren't really load dependent like I said, so I'm really lost what could be going on.Any pointers?

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 06:17:16 am
content: I've seen both power supply glitches and video card drivers exhibit these symptoms.

author: Things
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 06:52:12 am
content: Could a bad video card driver cause a system to just forcefully reboot though? I agree though, I'm leaning between a GPU and a PSU problem at this stage. Still not sure though, as I know a similar thing can happen with a memory failure too, heh. I've run memtest and it turns up fine.

author: TheRevva
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 07:32:19 am
content: Well, you state that you've already run memtest86+ (which was going to be my FIRST suggestion!).Having said that, MOST people only leave memtest86+ for one full cycle. I'd suggest trying at LEAST 5 full passes before I discounted it completely.Something you could TRY (as a test) would be to rip out your video card altogether. (The B75M-D3H has onboard graphics!)If it still fails with the card on the bench beside it, then you KNOW it wasn't your GPU!While you state that 'Temps all seem in good shape', I'd like to hear HOW you determined that point?Quite some time ago I had a machine exhibitting similar 'issues' with random reboots etc.It turned out that the CPU HSF wasn't properly seated on the CPU so it was randomly overheating and shutting itself down.I pulled off the HSF, gave it a good dose of thermal grease and put it all back together and it was 'fixed'. (The CPU fan furiously spinning should have alerted me sooner!)While I am far more used to dealing with ASUS MoBos than Gigabyte MoBos, I'm assuming the GB BIOS has a decent temp display page. What does it think the temp is? (And does it stay static, or gradually keep climbing).I guess it's probably impertinent to state that you have a bad virus on the machine... (You already told us... It's called Wind-Blows Seven!) [OK, I'm a Linux Fan-Boi... SUE me... LOL]SMPS PC PSUs never cease to amaze me. If I had a dollar for every PS PSU that has a 'sticker rating' on the 12V that's WAY above the maximum rating of the internal rectifier, I'd be quite wealthy!If you have another ATX12 PSU laying around, I'd definitely give it a try! (Personally, I'm willing to bet your 600W TT would let out the magic smoke if you tried to extract more than 400W for any length of time).(On my 'high end' systems with hungry GPUs, I tend to install 2 independent PSUs. One of them is 'dedicated' to the GPU and the other feeds all the rest.. It's easy enough to parallel the PS_ON signal so that BOTH PSUs power up at once. If I was to get really fussy, I'd 'wire-or' the Power_Good signals from them both)Let us know how it goes

author: Things
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 07:48:51 am
content: Yeah, the temps I'm monitoring both in Windows, with an IR thermo and in the BIOS, and they all match up pretty well. Nothing except the GPU really goes above 50C or so, and the GPU is notorious for running hot, it idles at about 60C even.And yeah, taking the GPU out would probably be my next step, but this problem is so intermittent it's damn annoying! Doing my head in! Why can't it just crash under load or something simple to determineNo viruses - it's a brand new install.As for the PSU, yeah, I'd say it's probably overrated too, but in reality the system shouldn't even be drawing _close_ to that full 600W. The CPU is probably 50W or so at best, the GPu can reach 270W, but that's only under extreme load, and I'm not really running anything else power heavy from it. My guess is if it is a PSU problem, it's probably not due to overloading, maybe just a general failure. If/when it crashes again, I intend to rip the PSU out, open it up and check for some obvious signs of failure, bulged caps etc. In reality it's not that old.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 07:57:02 am
content: If you are getting frequent lockups on a new-build system the PSU is always a prime suspect - even under moderate loads - and anyone who builds their own PCs should ideally have a good quality spare anyway. If your budget can stretch to it, get a prime brand model from Antec, Seasonic, Corsair, or similar. I'd be inclined to rate Thermaltake as second or third tier.You might also bear in mind that some members of this forum get a little irked by requests for help on PC build issues (from anyone except Dave), and may recommend that you ask such questions on a more appropriate site.

author: Things
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 08:05:12 am
content: I asked here because it's more of a technically inclined question than software I think - agreed I wouldn't ask here if I had a bad driver or something. I'm more wondering if a bad PSU, or even a bad HDD could cause issues like I'm experiencing.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 08:28:43 am
content: What's your memory config , brand, #cards etc, which slots are they in. Try moving them away from the cpu & closer to the bus terminators.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 08:32:56 am
content: yes, psu and ram would be my first guesses as well.Maybe remove all but 1 memory chip and see if it happens again.

author: Things
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 08:49:39 am
content: RAM is this:http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=186_912&products_id=18972&zenid=c630e59b71d57a7ad5e17848eec5f289There are 2 blue and 2 white slots, with white being 1 and 3, blue 2 and 4, I've got them both in white at the moment. Originally I had blue, but swapped them to test, didn't help.I'm not sure about config - I've seen all the timing settings in BIOS, but it's all set on auto.Been a few hours now since the last crash, I think the randomness of it is by far the most annoying factor.

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 09:21:20 am
content: Any useful information in the event logs? I had a similar problem where the system would just hang for a couple of seconds and then reboot. No blue screen. The event logs said something to the effect that it was an issue in the video driver.In my case it was a really weird driver bug where if I unplugged a particular USB device (Wacom tablet) while the system was suspended and then powered back up it would cause avideo driverissue when I tried to play video.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 09:32:06 am
content: Here's a possible solution a friend of mine recently debugged on a new build, similar scenario. Turn off the power save option on the video driver. The unit in question was randomly crashing and it was eventually traced to when switching video to or from a power save mode, can't remember which video card, but the option in the driver was difficult to find.

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 10:09:48 am
content: I agree about running Memtest for several cycles. This old Vista computer had a tendency to bluescreen and with the help of memtest I was able to narrow it down to a particular memory configuration. And, importantly, it only tended to happen after 5+ cycles taking several hours.So I'd recommend leaving memtest as long as you can; at the least overnight and on into the next day if possible.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2013, 04:27:54 pm
content: There are burn in utilities that exercise the CPU, memory and video rather hard, to check for early failure. as well do you have it on an UPS, or on an extension cord. That will remove any power supply dips and surges from the mains being an issue, which is often overlooked. Memtest just works the memory, the CPU and the rest is in a low use state, as the CPU is faster than the memory and it is not doing IO to disk, and is only doing minimal screen graphics.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2013, 12:51:10 am
content: I built the first computer I ever owned. Thing was not working accept for the power supply fan. Took that machine completely apart and reassembled it three times. No luck. Took it to the shop. Went back the next day and the guy said the thing worked great when he turned it on, no problem. Took it home. Never gave any more trouble.

author: Anson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2013, 01:21:22 am
content: I had a similar problem to this once using the same brand motherboard. It ran fine using the onboard graphics. But when using a radeon card it would have random crashes. There was a setting in bios that disables onboard graphics. Solved my problem.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2013, 12:21:27 pm
content: I agree with Anson. Make sure the Intel graphics are disabled in the BIOS, or you could try removing the video card and use the built-in Intel graphics for a while and see if that makes a difference.