Mastech MS5308 LCR meter with ESR measurement - on discount at the moment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2012, 10:19:57 pm
content: Just a heads-up to those in the market for a decent looking LCR meterI have LCR meters already, including the AVO Megger B131, Wayne Kerr 4210 and Uni-Trend UT-203. From these units I have established the pros and cons of the different models and one glaring omission annoys me royally. None of these meters can measure ESRI bought the Bob Parker ESR meter kit from Dick Smith Electronics (works well) and a 'cottage industry' built desktop model from Hungary (works well for the money). The Hungarian unit may be found on ebay here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESR-Meter-Electrolytic-Capacitor-Meter-DC2-1x5-5-Blue-LCD-/140686944681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c19869a9It costs a reasonable $70 + $15 shipping.I was still looking for an 'all in one' solution to capacitor testing from a known meter manufacturer and considered the ATLAS offerings that I believe are quite good, if a little funky lookingThe ESR 70+ is the top model and would cost me around GBP100 delivered.Now to the title of this message (AT LAST you may say .... but I am setting the scene for you)I found the Mastech MS5308 listed on ebay this evening and from a company that I have had good experiences with, "aidetech_us" have the MS5308 on 15% discount at the moment for $211.65 inc delivery. That is the best price that I have found for the whole kit and some are listed for considerably more.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300611462699?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649I took an interest in the meter and noted that it uses the same chip set that is believed to inhabit the IET DE-5000 that Dave tore down in Blog Video #229. The chipset impressed me , especially the ESR capability.I already own a Tektronix THS720 DSO and I like the similar styling of the MS5308. The 4" screen is nice and large for displaying the required information and to top it off....you get the full set of accessories including PC interface kit included in the priceBe careful of cheaper quotes for this meter...many are for the meter alone with no accessories.After some thought, I purchased the MS5308 and shall report on it when I have it in my pawsThe odd thing is that I can't find the MS5308 listed on the "Precision Mastech" website. One reseller lists it as a new Mastech model so maybe the site is just out of date ?I am attaching pictures of the kit, plus an internal picture that I have stolen from the DE-5000 thread (thanks BravoV). I also attach the chipset datasheet. I also include a picture of the THS720 DSO for interest. They will look good togetherUpdate:There is an interesting discussion about the MS5308 and the DE-5000 on this Chinese site:In Chinese:http://www.crystalradio.cn/bbs/thread-217337-1-1.htmlTranslation url:http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.crystalradio.cn/bbs/thread-217337-1-1.html&ei=2Uk0T7TtIqar0QW6x8S6Ag&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.crystalradio.cn/%2Bms5308%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1523%26bih%3D734%26prmd%3DimvnsThey compare the MS5308 with readings from an Agilent E4980A .... it comes through the comparison of readings pretty wellThere is also comment on the chipset used in the MS5308 and the DE-5000Interestingly the internal picture shows what appear to be standard 4mm sockets available on the side of the MS5308 (under the pimpled side cover ?). I see no mention of such in the manual or sales literature. No 4mm leads are supplied either. It will be interesting to see if the sockets are usable on my unit or just an unused option built into the case moulding. The downloadable manual is crap though so it may just have been missed out.Manual is here:http://www.aidetek.com/New_products_info/Datasheet/huayi/MS5308_english_manual.pdfI just found the Mastech alibaba web site. As opposed to the one that had no reference to the MS5308 this site has it proudly shown on the front pagehttp://mastech.en.alibaba.com/Watch the Mastech video for a laugh ...they employ a robot for the voice overThe main Mastech site only has details of the MS5308 in Chinese and not on the English version of the site. Most odd !http://www.mastech.cn/Productdetail.aspx?id=10675English translation:http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mastech.cn%2FProductdetail.aspx%3Fid%3D10675The model was released on 13 May 2011 so is quite recent to the market place.Update +1I have found the Russian instructions ! They clearly show 4mm sockets in the side of the MS5308 unitSo hopefully I can use whatever 4mm test leads I desireRussian manual attached.UPDATE 4 March 2012.... Aidetech price has returned to $249Aurora

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 12:54:49 pm
content: Thanks for the detailed analysis! Looking forward to your review. Sounds like a bang for buck and with your brood of LCR meters you can make some good comparisons. For comparison, an equivalent 100kHz LCR meter from Agilent is ~$400.Folks should realize LCR meters are designed to measure LCR of components, and they may not be same values when used at much higher frequencies due to parasitics in those components.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 02:07:56 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on February 09, 2012, 10:19:57 pmDoes this unit feel solid? Im interested in getting one but Im not sure how good it is...Does it really only measures capacitances above 1uF?

author: muvideo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 02:28:02 pm
content: Aurora this is interesting! I'll wait impatiently your opinion and review.I was searching around for a rcl meter,I opened also a topic recently about another similar device.This mastech seem very good considering the price, accessoriesand the fact that someone compared it to professional equipment.Fabio.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 07:35:49 pm
content: bsgd,The Hungarian ESR meter that I bought is very much a small production item made by an individual rather than a company. As such it is built in a standard hobby project case that isn't that wonderfully moulded and could not be regarded as rigid. The front and rear panels are plastic with the panel labels made using photocopied images on paper. Its a novel idea that works but is not likely to be durable,. the seller is very friendly and sent me the images of the labels so that I can make my own and laminate them.The internal electronics is well made but you cannot get away from the fact that this is a hobby quality build and the well made PCB's are held in pace by PCB stand-offs that have been superglued to the case. The glue does fail on early versions and has now been changed to an epoxy. The LCD is superglued to the front panel so I expect it to break free with regular use and bumps etc. The actual ESD measurement circuit is, I believe, digital in technique rather than the simpler analogue types driving an 7106 A to D chip and display. Sadly the schematic is not available and the seller declined to supply it to me. I have my suspicions that it may be an open source or electronics magazine design but I have yet to find it.The unit performs well but there is room for improvement with the case and physical build. The price reflects this. It IS good value for money when someones time is taken into consideration.Would I buy it again ?....yes. For the money, it works wellIs it a posh professional looking meter with resilience ? ....no, but I can forgive it that.With regard to it not testing capacitors below 1uF, that is correct. Such a lower limit is not unusual on ESR meters as ESR is of most concern to many when Electrolytic capacitors are involved as these have a known likelihood of failure with age or poor quality manufacture. This is the market that is being targetted by most designs since the dreaded 'BadCap' outbreak in computers and domestic equipment some years ago.I attach the manual for the Hungarian meter.Hope this helpsAurora

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 08:54:48 pm
content: Looking forward to the review.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 09:15:26 pm
content: @Aurora: can you open the case and take picture(s) insidemay be I can help to find an open source equivalent...thanks.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 09:28:34 pm
content: Pictures of the inside is no problem at all. I'll sort it out over the weekend.Aurora

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2012, 11:31:50 pm
content: Aurora,Thank you very much, that was very helpful.I guess I will buy one too. I can make some improvements to it and I wont have to spend thousands on a brand name bench ESR.Regarding the Mastech, I am also very interested. I finnaly came to the conslusion that I just cant have too many test instruments

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2012, 03:53:46 pm
content: For anyone interested in the Hungarian ESR meter I purchased, I have started a new thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/esr-meter-teardown-hungarian-cottage-industry-unit-from-ebay/msg90428/Pictures of the internals supplied, as requested.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2012, 06:22:26 pm
content: Well the MS5308 has arrivedI bought it from AideTech US but it came via DHL from a UK source (Impact Express) so delivery was fast and no duties payableI presume they have a UK agent working for them.I have only just opened the package and its...well....... gorgeous !The unit is very well built and looks like you could drive a car over it without killing it. A real 'quality' look as well. The kit that comes with it is equally niceI can't wait to test it.The only negative is that there are not any 4mm sockets on the side as per the Russian instructions....maybe they caused a problem with pickup or something ?For now I attach the picture of the kit as it arrived...... all shiny and newAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2012, 07:23:49 pm
content: Brothers in Arms.......The Mastech MS5308 along side my Tektronix THS720 ....they look made for eachother

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2012, 07:27:46 pm
content: Some quick pics of the display.Its well backlit and very easy to read with good contrast and viewing angle.Any colour aberrations are due to the photography, its a nice cool blue/white backlight.The last picture shows the ESR mode.Next installment will be some tests

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2012, 07:39:23 pm
content: I may have the answer to why the 4mm sockets have been removed from the MS5308.I just checked the Kelvin clip lead and it is wired in 4-Wire configuration. The adapter blades that plug into the meter are double sided FR4 PCB with each side connected to one of the Kelvin clip tips. I'm impressed, none of your common old 2-Wire stuff hereThe SMD tweezers have their 4-Wire configuration changed to 2-Wire to suit the 2 contact tweezer tipsAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2012, 10:11:47 pm
content: Well I have just completed my first quick checks on the unit and all appears to be working correctly. I used the Kelvin clips to test a pile of capacitors, resistors and inductors then compared the readings with my Wayne Kerr meter that is lab standard but hasn't been calibrated in years. All readings tally and the error on close tolerance Mica capacitors shows that the LCR meter is well withon its specification tolerances. The same applies to Resistance. All well withing the specifications.I threw some known suspect, New old stock, and new Electrolytic capacitors at the the meter to see how the ESR readings stood up. It identified every known faulty capacitor plus a few NOS ones that I would now throw away. The readings on the new capacitors were all within the manufacturers acceptable tolerances.The readings are taken pretty quickly and are very stable. I really like this LCR meter already.I'll do some more tests in slower time but I am now happy that my unit is fully operational.It was interesting to see the Q reading on a 10mH inductor change as I stepped through the frequencies that the meter can generate. It was also interesting to see that the meter refuses to measure a large value (2200uF) capacitor at the 100kHz test frequency

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2012, 01:34:48 pm
content: This is good news, Aurora. Before tossing your electrolytics, trying reforming them then retesting them. Its always interesting to see how many you can revitalize.

author: Lo_tse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2012, 01:52:42 am
content: Hi, AuroraAny further comements on your MS5308? I am trying to decide whether I should get the TH2822A or this Mastech MS5308.Regards,

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 04:31:10 pm
content: I have not used the Mastech LCR meter a great deal since getting it,due to other commitments. The checks that I have carried out using known faulty components and accurate known component values have shown it to be both accurate and reliable when taking readings in and out of circuit. I do wish Mastech had left the 4mm sockets fitted though. On several occasions meter probes would have been more useful than clips or tweezers. I may make up another plug in unit with 4mm sockets for just such a requirement.The build quality and 'feel' of the unit is excellent and I really like the design but it will not be everyones taste as it is a little bulky. For me the large screen and solid design are perfect. The ability to select 100kHz for the excitation signal is also very welcome.When I get some free time I will compare its performance with the Uni-Trend and Wayne Kerr LCR meters. The Wayne Kerr has not been calibrated in a long time though so I cannot use it as a true reference. TheUT203UT603 is a cheap LCR meter so I don't expect its performance to be anything exciting.Thanks to the LCR meter Chipset availability, there are more LCR meters appearing on the market with very similar specifications to the Mastech so I think we will see some very capable meters appearing at affordable prices. For me, the Mastech offered a complete kit (minus 4mm test lead capability) at a reasonable price. Would I recommend it to a friend ? Definitely !Aurora

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 06:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on March 04, 2012, 04:31:10 pmMake sure you do it with (4) 4mm sockets so you can maintain 4 lead kelvin style connection to your DUT if you want to maintain the accuracy you are enjoying.PS. I have the DE5000 (I think the same chipset) and also impressed with its performance. Looking forward to Dave's review of it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 06:54:16 pm
content: OOOOPs ! Yes I meant UT603As suggested, I will make up a 4 wire lead set to maintain good accuracy.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 08:09:55 pm
content: I have quickly photographed the interior of the MS5308.The general build quality is excellent but once again I find that the non automated hand soldering is of variable quality. Nothing that will prevent the unit working, but not up to my expected standards.There are some nice touches such as a nice deep lip on the case that engages into its partner to form a tight dust seal. The lip also adds rigidity to the case when assembled. The battery cover is a nice tight fit and has excellent pressure padding to keep the batteries in place. The battery cover has screws that engage into brass bushes in the units case...nice.Disassembly was a minor challenge as after the six self tapping screws have been removed you have to disengage the very tight fitting mated male and female tubes that form the screw spindles. No nasty plastic clips to accidentally snap off in the case designThe plastics mouldings are excellent quality with no evidence of warping or poor mould design.Over all, I am very pleased with this LCR meter and the manner in which it has been built.Pictures attached.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 08:15:55 pm
content: I dismantled the tweezer probe adapter to see if they bothered to use 4 wire configuration to the tips, or just shorted the pairs within the adapter housing.I am pleased to say they wired the tweezers correctlyThey are pretty simple assemblies so I should be able to make my own for custom probes if required. All that is need is plated double sided FR4 PCB.Picture attachedAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 09:35:48 pm
content: I see the price of this unit from AideTech has now returned to $249.I expect it will be discounted again in the future.Aurora

author: Lo_tse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 01:24:55 am
content: Aurora,Thank you for the follow up info.Regards,

author: Lo_tse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 01:07:40 am
content: Hi, AuroraBased on your info and my research, I finally pulled the trigger and bought this LCR meter too. It was physically bigger than I thought, more like a bench/table top gear than a hand held. Fortunately, it is not heavy at all. The big screen with the back light feature is really nice though.Well, the hard plastic case is a little too shiny for my taste, but it is just cosmetic. The manual was really crappy though. This meter is reasonably versatile and deserves a better written manual. I was looking for thecomparebutton mentioned in the manual but there is no such thing, they actually mean thesortingbutton. Same goes with theOKbutton which is actually theenterbutton. I was trying to find how to use the tinycalibratepush pin to do the calibration but there is no mention in the manual?? Do you know how to do this?This is my first LCR meter and I have nothing to compare to. I found the reading takes a bit long to show (comparing to taking a reading on a digital multimeter). I check some of my caps and low value resistors (<0.3 ohm) and the number agreed with the specified values. Overall, I think this meter is a good buy - the price includes the SMD tweezers, kelvin clips, AC power adapter, RS323 cable, and a decent soft case.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 08:54:45 am
content: Hi Lo-tse,I must agree, the provided Mastech manual is a poor document and missing information such as the important calibrate button !When I received my unit I immediately downloaded the chipset technical sheet as that provides useful information on how the chipset actually works. I also downloaded the IET Labs DE5000 manual as that unit uses the same chipset so is basically the same but with a different front panelIET rewrote the manual to improve it. I attach the chipset data sheet. The IET DE5000 manual is available here:http://www.ietlabs.com/de5000-lcr-meter.htmlThe CAL button should really be on the front panel as is the case with the DE5000. It puts the chipset into the open/short AC calibration routine. This is a feature of the chipset to allow for the test fixture LCR characteristics and eliminate them from the readings. This is especially important for very accurate readings using long leads such as the tweezers. It is amazing that this was missed out of the manual !The joy of this meter is that it is basically an excellent GENERIC chipset housed in a custom case....any LCR meter using the same chipset will behave in the same manner and should offer the same performance if built correctly. You can already find other LCR meters that are using this chip set....it is likely to become very popular and unlike custom chipsets there is likely to be more information becoming available regarding the behaviour of this most useful generic chipset. Manuals for other meters using this chipset should also be applicable to the Mastech unit in terms of test procedures etc.Kind RegardsAurora

author: Lo_tse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 07:03:44 pm
content: Hi, AuroraThank you very much for the information. Much appreciated. I was wondering whether I should write Mastech to enquire. Well, I guess I have a lot of exploration to do, learning how to use this meter effectively.When I opened the battery compartment, I was surprised to find that there was actually a compartment for a 9 v battery (not hooked up though), in addition to the space allocated for the 8 x 1.5 v AA cells. I was curious why every LCR meter on the market (almost) use a single cell 9 v and the MS5308 needs 8 x 1.5V. Granted, as far as I know (correct me if I am wrong), all the AC adapters for LCR meters are set at 12 V, e.g. the TH2822A.Thanks again and take care.Regards,Lo_tse

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 09:50:33 pm
content: Regarding the battery compartment.I believe the case is actually the manufacturers generic assembly, and can be used for other products, like multimeter's, that may require a 9V battery.It would be good to add the names of meters that are believed to use the same chipset in this thread as that may assist others with buying decisions and sources of better user manuals etc. The LCR meter specifications are the give away as if they mirror the Cyrustek chipset specs there is a very good chance that this is what lives inside the case.I will start with the following:Mastech MS5308DER EE DE5000APPA 703V&A VA520Extech LCR200 _ warning - no PC software or accessories !RegardsAurora

author: Vredstein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2012, 11:32:13 pm
content: I didn't see a user replaceable fuse in any of the pics. Is this a relevant issue?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2012, 11:25:58 pm
content: One thing that is persistently missing from almost all LCR bridges is the capability to apply a bias voltage on the part while measuring. or to apply a bias current to an inductor while measuringEspecially with surface mounted parts this is becoming more and more a problem.To give you an idea : a 1uf 0805 10 volt Y5V cap (according to the spec) with 6 volts applied has its capacitance decreased to 3 uf ... take the same part in 0603 package and you are left with 1.3 uf ... pump up the bias to the max (according to the spec) and you are lucky to have 100nF left over ... Heat it up or cool it down and your guess is as good as mine ...X7R are much more stable. The problem is : how do you tell an X7R from a Y5V ... especially if it already sits on a board and you suspect the assembly house used the wrong ones. You can only verify that by biassing the part.The same goes with inductors. take a 1uh inductor for a buck or boost regulator , destined to run at 1 to 5 MHz switching range. This inductor is spec'd for 3 ampere saturation current. But, depending on the core material used , one type may be 800uH at 2 ampere while another may be 0.5uH at the same 2 ampere ... If you got the latter : your switcher will become unstable, may hicckup and eventually destroy itself.So, anyone know of machines that can do this ( at a decent price ? ) . I know wayne-kerr en Agilent have so called 'material analyzers' that start somehwere in the 50.000$ range... Throw in the biassing sources and it klimbs even further very fast ...

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 01:59:30 am
content: If 1 to 5 MHz is to be the test frequency, it is way beyond the current topic of Mastech MS5308 LCR meter with or without taking into account of applying bias. On the other hand, measuring LCR using any LCR meter with bias is just a easy "DIY" project, especially if the accuracy is not the concern (e.g. the sever non-linearity in the examples) right?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 03:29:01 am
content: Quote from: onlooker on April 04, 2012, 01:59:30 amyes and no.. i'd like to be able to make some plots of how capacitors behave , so i'd like to be able to sweep the bias voltage for example... I don't know how this LCR meter is going to react if i start applying external voltage on the capacitor... most LCR's want to 'discharge' before measuring. Can't do that in my case. I want to put 50 volts on that cap.. and measure its capacitance ...I know the big bridges like the wayne-kerr's can do it. When i visit my parts suppliers ( TDK murata etc ) thay all have these big bridge. but hey are 50K$ and more (and they can alsoe do leakage, soakage, impulsa , sel sr and uch more .. i was just wondering if there is something a bit more 'hobby' that has biasing capability. ( let's say below 1K $ ... ) I habven't found one yet ( apart from my second hand HP LCR bridge 4263B that has a bias generator up to 1.5 volts.

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 01:21:36 pm
content: The discharge clause is meant to not apply (excessive) external voltage to the meter leads. If the DUT cap under bias is not too large, one can serial a "larger" and low ESR cap to the LCR to measure it. This is how I measure battery ESRs with my TH2822A (a 4 uF with esr=60m Ohms). On a side note, I think TH2822A is a better choice: On paper, it has better C and R accuracy/range, a little lesser H accuracy/range and it has 40000 counts (vs 20000) and better looking and not as bulky, though it does not do 100kHz. I think they are about same in price.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 02:31:09 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/tonghui-th2822-lcr-meter-review-teardown-and-possible-hacking/Looks like it costs 230$ and it only does 10kHz and does not have a backlight .Hmm .But really , do you need that extra counts in a LCR meter , i don't know .If it was a normal DMM , ok .

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2012, 01:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: onlooker on April 04, 2012, 01:21:36 pmThe TH2822C would do 100kHz.

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2012, 06:57:03 am
content: Curious if any more folks jump into this Mastech MS5308 bandwagon and have more first hand experience to share. In particular I would like to hear more on the quality of the test probes and consistency of the meter.Quote from: robrenz on March 04, 2012, 06:05:57 pm

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2012, 11:19:32 pm
content: Hello, I've also just landed me one of these Mastech meters, so here are my initial thoughts - no other LCR meters of worth in my possession to compare it against.First impressions - Look at the SIZE of this thing! It's hee-uge. It must beFULLof clever electronics, then? At least, you could operate it while wearing oven gloves, and/or in hand-hand combat. Only why would you need to? Big display, (OK, that's always nice) big buttons, complex, fussy case moulding, with "pretend" rubber corner buffers. But it is all hard, black, plastic. A rather surplus fabric carry strap/handle (took that STRAIGHT off). Not a great fan of the design from the outside, me. I think it might have been designed by a Lumberjack. Or gorilla, maybe. Look, it's not an IPad, that's what I'm saying.With its accessories, the unit comes in a nice, padded bag. Which could also double up to keep your sandwiches AND a thermos flask in, or even for somewhere for the cat to crawl into and go to sleep. Did I mention - this thing is BIGThe large plastic tilt bail at the back of the meter is nice, and the case is so chunky and wide that it sits sturdily at an angle. The bail folds out from the battery pack - which houses no fewer than EIGHT AA batteries, thoughtfully, supplied. I have measured the current consumption (with the nice display backlight on) at around 25 mA, so the supplied set of alkaline AAs, albeit of unknown pedigree, can be expected to last around 100 hours. That may not sound long, but the unit auto-powers off (and this cannot be disabled while on battery power) after about five minutes anyway. The meter works down to a supply voltage of around 8.4V, so a little over 1V per cell - the point at which most alkalines have pretty well had it, anyway (so that's good).Bizarrely, the rear moulding does also include room for a 9 V battery, although no wiring exists to support it. Such a power source choice would have been a bit of aDISASTERfor this meter, with an expected battery life then of maybe less than 25 hours. Why the two battery mouldings? I find it odd that this case was designed to be multi-purpose. I think it was a mould designer hedging his bets. Maybe he didn't know the current consumption of the (fairly new) chipset? It is rather inconceivable that any well designed electronics would need TWO such power sources.The DUT (Device under Test, or "Object for Measuring" as the rather poor comedy manual refers to it) spring clips are rather tight, and have to be coaxed apart with a screwdriver before you can slot in the Device (or Object?). I guess I will mostly use the probes. I can see the hard plastic case getting scratched around the DUT sockets, after repeated poking with component wires. Although the case is part designed to accommodate it, there are no options to plug in banana plug leadsOk, we know what comes next. We don't just turn in on, we take it "apairt!"I can do no better than the pictures already posted of the insides, so wont bother. There are a few things I am not so keen on, on opening my own instrument. I find that the pillars into which the self-tapping case screws are driven have mostly split. So that limits the number of times I will be taking the back of this baby!FULLof electronics? Er, no! Just two main ICs, a handful of SMD discretes, a few manually soldered bits and flying wires (not the best quality) and that's it. This looks pretty close to the other designs that use this newish chip set, so they can be expected to perform similarly. Loads ofSPACE- the designers could have made the PCB half the size and still had room for a large display and reasonable keyboard.Why a separate daughter-board (needs own mounting screws and flying wires) just for the on-off button? That could so easily have been included on the main PCB, if the switch had been better sited. And another daughter board for the external power socket - I am sure they could have mounted that on the main PCB.The "Cal" switch (barely mentioned in the manual) is the weirdest thing! It seems to be a complex device, when surely a simple tactile "click" switch would have done the job. With it's own mini-PCB, I had it down for some sort of sensor at first, but no.There is no internal shielding, so the meter did not take kindly to the "stick a GSM phone on full output right up against it" test, but it recovered well enough, when the phone is removed.Given that the meter is trying to measure potentially small values of resistance, capacitance and inductance, the designers could not afford to have lots of multimeter-style protection electronics getting in the way between the DUT and the clever measurement electronics. So input protection of this class of meter is very low. Yes, it does warn you of this on the front of the meter. But anyway, as others have pointed out, whatdamn foolwould be stupid enough to expose this instrument, via its test probes, to a killer voltage in a live circuit? Well, speaking as afully qualified damn foolmyself, its very easy to do! SoTHINKbefore you plug this meter into anything. It wont survive multimeter-style abuse.As mentioned, the backlit display is a nice size, but a bit crowded. It includes a bar-graph trend meter - great for showing voltage or current trends and general VARYING quantities on an appropriate meter - but on an LCR component meter? Daft.All in all, a bit clunky, especially when compared to your typical, even larger, multimeter.The meter is supplied with an infra-red connector - important for electrical isolation - to RS232 connector (remember them? No? Ask your dad). I've not tried this yet, but the information flow is only ONE WAY (LCR to PC) so your PC can only record values, but not control the LCR Meter. The software looks basic.OK - does it work? Well, yes it does, and within spec, based on the small number of reference resistors, capacitors and inductors I have thrown at it. It produces more information about the DUT than the supplied poor manual will reveal. Instead, you should download and read the excellent manual for the IET DE-5000 device, which is electronically identical, I suggest (they move keys and stuff around on the LCD, but it's all the same segments, just in different places).Maybe you are asking yourself: "Do I need an LCR meter? My multimeter measures C and R well enough". Well, if you only need to know the resistance of resistors and the capacitance of capacitors, then probably not. But if your circuit designs need you to dig further into the ESR (equivalent series resistance) of a capacitor or the Q of an inductor, then that is where an LCR meter like this will leave your multimeter for dust.One surprise is the widely differing capacitance readings given for the same device at different frequencies. Which is correct? I need to read up on that!I expect a number of manufacturers will release very similar products on this same chipset, and I can see nothing to hold the price up for long. Expect $99 LCR meters looking remarkably similar to this one, soon.The Mastech MS5308 doesn't have the polish (or price!) of a Genrad/IET DE-5000, but yet it does have the performance. I'd say for home, lab or non-production use, it would be fine. Yes, glad I bought it but, as I say, it's no Genrad.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 12:01:28 am
content: Quote from: LaurenceW on April 27, 2012, 11:19:32 pmYou didn't say what "widely" means in numbers, but capacitance does vary with frequency - even for secondary standard quality reference capacitors.Remember that when you measure capacitance you are measuring a net effect, and inside the capacitor there can be both capacitance and inductance along with resistive and dielectric losses. Also the dielectric properties can change with frequency and voltage.If you try different types of capacitors, you will probably find something like a 1nF SMD ceramic capacitor is far more constant then a wound polyester or electrolytic capacitor.Also you have to look at the reality of the test frequency. A 1uF cap at 100KHz is only 1.6 ohms impedance, so lead resistance can effect the result. A 100pF cap at 100Hz is 16 MOhms so if the meter can read it at 100Hz , it probably has a low accuracy.Richard.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 09:03:42 am
content: Using an impedance analyzer to plot the variation of component parameters with frequency can provide insight into the different measured values of capacitance at different frequencies.I've attached some images showing the series equivalent capacitance and series equivalent resistance (ESR) for various capacitors with the frequency swept from 1 kHz to 5 MHz.The green curve is the capacitance and the yellow curve is the ESR. The first image shows the result for a Wima 4.7 uF polypropylene capacitor. This is a very low loss capacitor. The capacitance is 4.58 uF at 1 kHz (marker A is set to 1 kHz), but as the frequency increases the measured capacitance slowly increases as we approach the self resonance frequency. At 100 kHz, the measured capacitance is 5.38 uF (marker B is set to 100 kHz). We see the series resonance occurring at about 250 kHz. The measured capacitance at frequencies higher than 250 kHz would be negative because the capacitor looks like an inductor at those frequencies.The yellow curve shows that the ESR is about 1.2 milliohms at 20 kHz; at 100 kHz, the ESR is 2.708 milliohms. This is a very good capacitor.The second image shows the result for a Sanyo ultra low ESR capacitor of the sort used in computer mother boards. The rated capacitance is 1800 uF. It measures 1660 uF at 1 kHz with an ESR at 100 kHz of a little more than 9 milliohms. But look what happens when we try to measure the capacitance at 100 kHz. The series resonance occurs at a little over 50 kHz and the measured capacitance at 100 kHz is -974.7 uF. This is because the capacitor is looking like an inductor at frequencies greater than the series resonance frequency. We also notice that as the frequency increases from 1 kHz, the capacitance looks like it might be decreasing just a little.The third image shows the result for a 33 uF 50 volt ordinary electrolytic, not ultra low ESR. Notice that the capacitance decreases as it approaches series resonance and finally begins to rise just before series resonance as the other capacitors did. What causes this decrease in capacitance?The capacitor manufacturers, such as Cornell Dubilier, explain in application notes that this is the result of etching the aluminum foil that forms the electrodes in the capacitor. The etching process causes the surface of the foil to become very irregular and covered with pores. This increases the surface area, which in turn increases the capacitance for a given physical size of capacitor. But a side effect of the many small pores is that although the liquid electrolyte does penetrate the pores, the speed of movement of ions in the pores is slow enough that at the higher frequencies the apparent capacitance is reduced by this slowdown of ion movement in the pores.The capacitance measured at 100 kHz may be quite different than at lower frequencies because of the possibility that the series resonance frequency may be just a little above 100 kHz, or even below 100 kHz in which case the measured capacitance may show up as a negative number.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 09:29:29 am
content: For some electrolytic capacitors, the etching process has been carried to an extreme to get large capacitance in a small package. The first attached image shows the result for a very small 47 uF, 16 volt capacitor. The variation in capacitance as series resonance is approached is extreme. Imagine if a designer had specified this capacitor for use as a filter in a switcher running at 100 kHz or higher. The measured capacitance at 100 kHz is only 4.6 uF rather than the rated 47 uF! At 500 kHz, it's only 1 uF! The ESR is none to great either. But, at 60 Hz the capacitance is what it should be.Another thing to watch out for when measuring is the length of the capacitor leads. The second image shows 4 superimposed sweeps with various lead lengths. One is with the full length leads for a 15 uF capacitor. The other three are showing what happens when I pushed the capacitor leads into the measuring contacts various amounts (the resonance frequency changes), with the last (highest resonance frequency) when the leads are as short as possible. The measurement at 100 kHz for this capacitor doesn't change much for different lead lengths, but if a larger capacitor is measured whose resonance is just above 100 kHz, the measured values at 100 kHz would vary much more with lead length.The third image shows a capacitor whose ESR varies nearly an order of magnitude from 1 kHz to 5 MHz. The heating due to ripple current in this capacitor would be quite different for 1 kHz ripple than for 100 kHz ripple current. The ESR measured by the low cost ESR meters found on the web might be inaccurate by quite a bit for a capacitor like this whose ESR varies a lot with frequency.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 10:19:08 am
content: Electrician and AMspire, those are interesting discussions, and it is useful to see the behaviour of a component across a swept range of frequencies, rather than spot values. I guess I knew that the a component's apparent values must shift with frequency, but I hadn't thought about the degree. Heck, it amazes me that half of this stuff works at anything faster than DC!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 10:58:48 am
content: I agree with the comments made in the review by LaurenceW but think it worth making some additional comment.The case is LARGE but that is clear from the units specification so should not be a surprise. Unlike the Unit-T bench multimeters that are a bit like a sandwhich box with a single PCB behind the front panel, I do feel that the MS5308 is appropriate as a bench meter. It is portable if needed but it makes a very clear and stable bench meter. I have the Wayne Kerr 4210 and that is a true monster in comparison, as are the likes of Racal and other bench LCR meters. Mastech already sell several handheld LCR meters and this unit apppears to be a bit of a 'statement piece' with the size and unusual 'Tektronix like' case supposed to infer professional quality ?As the unit uses a known generic chipset and the PCB is, IMHO, of acceptable quality to maintain the chipsets specified accuracy, it is really a case of buying the Cyrustek based LCR meter that meets the size and cost specification of the user. I agree that prices may drop but LCR meters are not as common as multimeters so that may always have an effect on price (though UNI-T seem to have made this a myth with their cheap LCR meters).When comparing the MS5308 to other LCR meters, it is well worth considering what is supplied with the meter. In the 'large' carry bag you get the MS5308, batteries, interface lead, software, PSU, Tweezer adapter, Kelvin Clips adapter and the bag itselfSome other competitors appear to charge extra for the accessories which can up the price considerably. The MS5308 hits the ground running and is a complete package upon arrival.In my specific case, the size is a benefit and I am not unhappy with the design or the plastics used. This is not a flimsy unit and I am thankful that it has not been covered in that awful thin rubberised layer found on some equipment.....such rubberisation can go sticky with time and use. A rubber boot around the case would have been great but is not essential in my scenario. It is not a significantly inferior case to my Tektronix THS-720 DSO which is also of hard plastic but durable.With regard to the batteries required. LCR meters are power hungry and I am pleased that Mastech give the option of a PSU or AA batteries. As Dave has stated, AA battery capacity is far preferable to that of small PP3 batteries. The 9V battery slot is interesting. I seem to recall that another LCR meter used AA plus PP3 batteries for some reason (not known by me) Mastech have gone the correct route and taken all required supplies from one battery pack.To summarise......... Yes its large, Yes its Plastic, Yes it takes a lot of batteries......BUT it does what it says on the tin, Yes it comes with lots of accessories and Yes it appears robust. It is like Marmite, you either love the design or hate itThe price was certainly good value for money as well, and it came from a UK warehouse in double quick timeI would think any half decent LCR meter using the Cyrustek chipset will be good unless the manufacturer messes up the PCB design. My advice is.....Pick the design and price that most suits your needs. THEN download the DE5000 manual as has been statedAurora

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 12:11:04 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on April 28, 2012, 10:58:48 amMy guess is they had to leave the option open to go back to a 9V battery. Either they had a switching converter, and they were not sure if it could cause interference, of they were not sure if they could get the performance required without extra voltage to part of the circuit. I think this must happen a bit, as I have seen multimeter cases with "9V" molded into the plastic as the operating voltage, but inside they run of two AAA batteries.Richard.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 12:26:23 pm
content: Quote from: LaurenceW on April 28, 2012, 10:19:08 amThe Electrician is choosing the type of capacitors that will have variations, and they are not the capacitors you would pick if you needed accuracy at 10MHz.The performance of something like a 100pF NPO SMD capacitor is good over a much wider range.If you think capacitors are bad, you better not start testing inductors.If it makes you feel any better about capacitance, until the Quantum Hall Effect resistance standards came along, the resistance standard were calibrated using a special quadrature bridge from a primary standard capacitor - a 0.5pF calculable capacitor. Last I heard, someone had reached 18 digits of resolution in measuring it. The measurement frequency is usually 1KHz, the dielectric is a vacuum, and the test voltage is probably in the hundreds of volts at least - perhaps thousands of volts.The best capacitors we can make are many orders of magnitude more accurate and stable then any non-Quantum Hall effect resistor, but you would not know it from the parts we have to use everyday.Richard.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 10:18:32 pm
content: I chose the capacitors to be responsive to the question:Quote from: LaurenceW on April 27, 2012, 11:19:32 pmEven the lowest cost LCR meters usually measure at 100 Hz, 120 Hz and 1 kHz, and you won't usually see much difference in the readings at those frequencies, but the meters that also measure at 100 kHz may see differences even for perfectly good capacitors. My purpose was to explain why non-defective capacitors can give different readings at different frequencies.Ths slow-ion-movement-in-etched-pores effect is, AFAIK, limited to electrolytics. The series resonance effect is going to be noticed at 100 kHz only with large valued capacitors. As you say, small valued capacitors such as 100 pF caps, won't show these effects at 100 kHz.These effects take place even if the capacitor is not defective, and the user of a 100 kHz capable LCR meter should keep them in mind. The different readings don't necessarily mean that the capacitor is bad.I hope LaurenceW hasn't gotten the impression that capacitors are bad; they just have limitations one should be aware of.As my plots show, not all electrolytic capacitors exhibit the slow ion effect; an LCR meter can help detect which ones do.Here are plots of a couple of capacitors from my collection. They are identical older Mallory capacitors with an epoxy seal rather than the currently more common rubber seal. They are rated 50 uF at 50 volts. There are no signs of swelling or leakage around the epoxy seal, yet something is wrong with one of them. The good one, Mallory1, has a capacitance of 66.8 uF at 1 kHz and a respectable ESR of .308 ohms. The bad one, Mallory2, has a capacitance of 8 uF at 1 kHz and an ESR of 82 ohms!The images show the sweeps of the caps individually and superimposed.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2012, 10:41:15 pm
content: There has been at least one thread on the forum that asks whether it's worth getting an LCR meter with 100 kHz capability. In the past this has cost a substantial increment in price, but recently the price increment isn't so large.Here's a nifty thing you can do with a meter having a 100 kHz measurement capability.I've attached an image showing a sweep of the impedance at one end of a 100 foot roll of telephone twisted pair cable. This is the old stuff, not modern Cat5 cable. The image show two sweeps superimposed; one with the other end of the cable open circuited and one with the other end of the cable short circuited. The impedance where the two curves cross is the characteristic impedance of the cable. Marker B is set at one of those crossings; the frequency is 2.5255 MHz and the impedance is 112.686. This kind of cable is usually said to have a characteristic impedance of about 100 ohms; the measurement confirms this.An LCR meter that can measure Z and phase angle (theta) can be used to determine the characteristic impedance of a cable. A measurement frequency of greater than 100 kHz would be better, but 100 kHz can do a fairly good job. You will need a substantial length of the cable, 100 feet or more.Connect the meter to one end of the cable with the other end open circuited. Measure the impedance at 100 kHz; I got 1166<-89.6 (this is 1166 ohms at a phase angle of -89.6 degrees). Now short circuit the other end of the cable and measure the impedance again; I got 13.42<64.87.Multiply the ohms readings: 1166 * 13.42 = 15647.72. Take the square root of this: SQRT(15647.72) = 125.09; this is the characteristic impedance. This compares favorably with the value of 112.686 obtained from the sweep in the image. For a check, add the two phase angles: -89.6 + 64.87 = -24.73; divide by 2 and get -12.365. This is the phase angle of the impedance; ideally it should be zero, if it's small, the value for the impedance is likely to be close to the correct value.If you try this same procedure at 10 kHz, you will get a not so good result, so this is why 100 kHz capability is a good thing.

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2012, 03:47:37 pm
content: Hi Electrician,You description below gets me curious, if the 100K capable LCR meter could indeed help to measure the effective impedance on an audio loudspeaker?Thanks.Quote from: The Electrician on April 28, 2012, 10:41:15 pm

author: Lo_tse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2012, 10:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on April 28, 2012, 10:58:48 amI totally agree with Aurora. I bought one after reading his earlier reviewandafter quite a bit of research on the internet. Particularly some of the comments on the Chinese DIY forum Crystalsradio (in Chinese). It was on Crystalsradio that someone commented on the "spacious interior" of the meter. One of the poster did a quick comparison of the Mastech meter with a certain model of Agilent bench LCR meter and was quite happy about the accuracy.I am not a big fan of the plastic shell but it seems sturdy enoug. The meter comes with all the accessaries that I wanted and more (the data cable) and I only paid 150 US$ for it (plus 55$ for shipping). The only unknown at this point is the longevity of the meter and only time will tell. For DIY use, I think this meter is way more than adequate.Lastly, I would like to thank Aurora again for informing me about the manual of the IET 5000 - night and day as compare to the one that comes with the meter. Mastech should be ashame.Regards,Lo_tse

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2012, 01:32:14 am
content: Quote from: zoltm on April 29, 2012, 03:47:37 pmAny LCR (or LCZ) meter can be used to measure a speaker impedance; you only have to connect the speaker to the meter. The impedance is, of course, only measured at one of the test frequencies used by the meter.It appears to me that the MS5308 doesn't have a z/theta mode. For a meter that doesn't have such a mode, you will have to derive the impedance from a measurement of Ls and Q or Cs and D.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2012, 11:35:47 pm
content: Well no, I don't necessarily think capacitors arebad. Despots, Hyper-inflation, droughts, anything by Boney-M; they'reBAD. Capacitors are just capacitors. (mainly). Clearly, not all caps are created equal.It is interesting and educational to me to see how different capacitors perform and measure at different frequencies. I learn that Polystyrene caps are pretty damn good, and give consistent high quality readings. I learn that electrolyics basic values don't vary as much as the often quoted -20/+80% tolerances would lead you to believe.I wasn't expecting to see even quite small electrolytics drop off in indicated value at higher frequencies, so rapidly. I guess that's other parameters in the component coming into play (and maybe explains why you'll often see a small ceramic cap straight across a larger electrolytic one)I am not complaining about more batteries - (8 AA's) over a smaller 9V pack. The larger solution will last MUCH longer and be cheaper too.The size is of the MS5308 is what the size is, and yes, it's probably even written down in the spec, somewhere. Did I read that?NAH!But there is no doubt that this instrument is larger than itneedsto be. It packs a lot of fresh air. "Pocket" it is not!My experience to date of the PC software is that it is C R A P. Actually, I cannot get it to work, but even if it ever does, I don't think I've got a use for it. It looks to be poorly written, and is VERY basic. Data doesn't even fit in the (fixed size) windows. The software doesn't even appear to capture all of the parameters that the meter is capable of measuring. But this is not why I bought the instrument.Still happy on balance with my purchase, though.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2012, 08:32:45 am
content: Big it is , but the sheer size of it gives you a wide grin on your face everytime someone sees your LCR meter .

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2012, 09:29:43 am
content: MS5308 large....NAH....My Wayne Kerr LCR meter is large, see attachments of similar unitsThese WK units are HUGE and gobble desk space. I am ashamed to say I have one in my lab right now, sitting on its tail up against a cabinet....its just too large and unwieldy to deploy on my desk tops. A wast I know, but in comparison, the MS5308 is positively compactSize is relativeAurora

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2012, 09:34:24 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on May 01, 2012, 09:29:43 amYES .

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2012, 08:08:42 pm
content: Well, I think I might have got an insight as to where the SIZE of this MASTECH MS5308 came from, and the "odd" choice of battery compartment mouldings.Probably the most expensive development cost for products of this type was the case tooling, which can run into thousands of dollars. So, if you can share tooling costs across products, so much the better.Check out the Mastech MS7212.http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/CalibratorMS7212f.htmIt is a "Process Calibrator" which is basically a multimeter, but has the ability to OUTPUT certain reference voltages, currents and suchlike. Guess what? It's in (very nearly) the same case. Now, this device NEEDS two sets of batteries, so that it can both output a reference current and measure stuff, too, which the inputs and outputs are isolated, I dare say.Also, this device has many more buttons, in keeping with its many more functions. That's fine, but that gave the designer of the 5308 with its fewer buttons a problem. How to position said buttons? The answer was to make them HUGE. On any PC keyboard, a large "enter" key sounds sensible - on the MS5308 it is a key that you may be hard pushed to ever, um, push.Dave S. I hadn't really thought about "LCR Meter Envy" I shall try that, the next time me and a few friends are comparing capacitors...

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 06:40:59 am
content: Curious if anyone heard anything about this latest device in the 100Khz handheld LCR scene?This beast has color LCD and touchscreen capability.

author: muvideo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 08:02:44 am
content: Quote from: zoltm on May 28, 2012, 06:40:59 amGiven the name the touchscreen is a mustDo you know also the selling price?Fabio.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 12:21:03 pm
content: a little less than $600...http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/513448121-AT826-Handheld-LCR-Digital-Meter-wholesalers.html

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 01:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on May 28, 2012, 12:21:03 pmin China it does cost only 350USD.

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 05:17:05 pm
content: I was told it's trending down the range of 250-300USD very quickly as it's to compete with other bunch of 100kHz handheld LCR meter.Quote from: tinhead on May 28, 2012, 01:49:54 pm

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 05:20:02 pm
content: To share a number of the internal shoots.It does NOT look like the typical 100KHz solution that based on the Cyrustek chipset. It looks like a FPGA based solution.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 05:24:59 pm
content: Quote from: zoltm on May 28, 2012, 05:20:02 pmHas the build quality of a non-china meter ... that is just awesome, it's the applent right ? The Tonghui(i think) kinds of reminds me of the UNI-T case design, the only weak point is the micro usb connector which can ingest dust, they should have used a soft rubber cover over the jack anyways

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 05:56:01 pm
content: zoltm, that's not the Applent (ridiculous name) or Mastech in those pictures. It's a Tonghui.EDIT: Never mind, I was only looking at the top two pictures.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2012, 03:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on March 31, 2012, 08:54:45 amI just ordered a Mastech herehttp://www.ebay.de/itm/MS5308-Portable-Handheld-LCR-Meter-RS232-100Khz-fit-FLUKE-dual-display-UK-ship-/220926501998But the de5000 manual url on the ietlabs.com site is broken (at least for me)Could someone upload it here or contact me ?Edit: Oopz i tried the software url.The manual url works here :http://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/Manuals/DE_5000_im.pdfTIA/Bingo

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2012, 11:25:03 pm
content: A couple of deficiencies exhibited by the low cost LCR meters as I see it are the lack of adjustable drive level and too few measurement frequencies. The older meter:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BK-Precision-885-Synthesized-In-Circuit-LCR-ESR-Meter-/190680646307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6573c2a3has 3 different drive levels; one sufficiently low to avoid turning on semiconductor junctions. This is the 10 kHz max version and sells new for around US$500.There is a 100 kHz max version:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BK-Precision-886-Synthesized-In-Circuit-LCR-ESR-meter-/190681758749?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6584bc1dthat goes for about US$700+.Most of the 100 kHz capable meters seem to be up there in price. I notice that a Chinese meter:http://www.ebay.com/itm/LCZ1062-1062-LCZ-Meter-LCR-Tester-LED-Display-Digital-Bridge-1V-200KHZ-/320914942343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab8056987has shown up on eBay. It's not hand held, but it's much more capable than the typical hand held with 100 kHz capability. It has a 40 Hz to 200 kHz measurement range comprising 30 frequencies in that range, with 10 mV to 1 V drive level range and .1% basic accuracy. It has the traditional 4 terminal interface and the image shows kelvin clips in use.It costs US$594.99 with free shipping to the U.S.; this is not much more than a 100 kHz capable hand held unit. This would be an astounding bargain if the performance is at all good.It's not as capable as the very expensive instruments (Agilent, Wayne-Kerr, etc.) some of us have access to at work, but only US$600? Wow!edit:Here's another one I just saw:http://www.ebay.com/itm/200KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-RCL-LCZ-METER-TESTER-ESR-DC-BIAS-AXIAL-FIXTURE-/261020859321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cc60e3bb9It's not as pretty, but appears to have similar capability and sells for about US$470, shipping not included. Notice that it has provision to apply up to 35 volt bias.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 01:08:05 am
content: QuoteInteresting. I tried to find more info about this one but not a lot of luck. I found a lot of references to Zentech, but no info. It looks a lot like a Chroma unit.http://www.chromaate.com/product/1061A_1062A_1075_Precision_LCR_Meter.htmAnyone have opinions on the ebay unit? Or, info about Zentech and Chroma?

author: zoltm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 06:03:18 pm
content: Well talking about low cost an being able to measure at 100KHz range, today I found one from Taiwan called Lutron Electronic LCR-9184. My source offer me this at US$120. This is the lowest cost 100Khz handheld I have ever seen.www.pedak.nl/Lutron/pdf/LCR-9184.pdf

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 06:20:15 pm
content: They don't provide proper kelvin leads right ?(The MS5308 and this one uses the same chipset as expected)Everything is optional LOL

author: nickolaszet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 20, 2012, 02:09:33 am
content: Hi..I read the topic but nobody say if ESR measure of MS5308 working in circuit (can you measure the cap from PCB or you must take it out first?.).And if you can , then measure and the capacity together with ESR in circuit.??

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2012, 02:23:22 am
content: Not that I can afford it, but this one seems to be quite nice (I like bench units more than handhelds):http://www.tequipment.net/HiokiIM3523.html

author: lister
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2012, 11:35:57 pm
content: Can anyone verify the accuracy of the Tonghui TH2822 meter? The vendor claims ESR is good to: 0.0001 ohmI don't believe this number...The new Agilent meter is good to: 0.001 ohmI purchased the MS5308 recently and I'm not happy with it. I don't care about the size. I can only read ESR to 0.01 ohm though. I can get this quality with many other $100 ESR only meters. I should have read the MS5308 specs closer. I only need ESR and don't care about the other functions since I already have them on other meters.Is anyone using this meter with low ESR caps or low IR battery cells/contacts? I have a lot of variance when measuring in the lower end of the scale <0.03 ohm. Most of my caps are <0.02 ohm, and my batteries are 0.002 to 0.003 ohm

author: jarvis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 02:31:37 am
content: You could set function to Rs mode then it is 0.001ohm resolution

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 03:31:55 am
content: Quote from: lister on September 09, 2012, 11:35:57 pmPlease don't jump to conclusions!

author: lister
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 05:35:28 am
content: Quote from: T4P on September 10, 2012, 03:31:55 amWell, that's why I was asking for confirmation, but I agree I should have phrased my question in a less accusatory tone. I was/am skeptical that the Tongui is more accurate than the new Agilent though, and was hoping someone that is familiar with both meters might be able to comment.

author: lister
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 05:47:09 am
content: Quote from: jarvis on September 10, 2012, 02:31:37 amThanks, that does give an extra digit. I just received the meter and only tested the Cs function since this was all I needed. It's an inconvenience to hop between functions when testing, but I can live with it.The numbers I get from the two functions are close but the rounding rules are not followed. for example: Rs=0.047 shows ESR= 0.04Both are taken at the same frequency, 100kHzIs the ESR measurement equivalent to the Rs measurement but missing a digit to save screen space? I'm confused why they would truncate the reading...and the numbers have some variance

author: lister
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2012, 11:56:17 pm
content: Quote from: lister on September 09, 2012, 11:35:57 pmI modified my post to be less opinionated, and provide more detail. Does anyone have any opinions about improving measurement at the scales I mentioned? I'll try a calibration this evening to to see if it helps. Attempting all options before returning...Is ESR equivalent to Rs on the 5308 (except less a digit of precision)? I'm used to R from a multimeter, but R on the 5308 is impedance driven and seems to be the same as ESR.

author: jarvis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2012, 03:22:31 am
content: Yes, the Rs is the same as ESR on MS5308

author: Tuomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2012, 10:57:10 am
content: Dinodirect seems to be selling this thing for 158.99USD right now:linkCombined with a 10% off coupon ("XMAS001", 10% on orders 80USD or more), it seems like a pretty good deal.It's advertised as "Hugeroe MS5308". Pictures still show Mastech on the device though.Any thoughts on this?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2012, 12:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: lister on September 09, 2012, 11:35:57 pmThe Agilent 1733C has .0001 ohm resolution. But I noticed from Daves teardown that it does not use 4 wire Kelvin connections. I have no idea how they expect to resolve to .0001 ohm with no kelvin connections. Both the spring clips and the banana jacks were only single connection. It does have a user cal funtion but AFIK you cant properly compensate for fixture /probe/tweezer LCR effects without 4 wire connections. Its specs at .0001 ohm are not as accurate as some meters at .001 ohm.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2012, 12:50:28 pm
content: Tuomas,Good spot on the 5308 LCR meter at a great price. One word of caution though.... When I bought mine there were sellers offering it at a cheaper price BUT they were not including the carry case, the Kelvin tweezers or Kelvin clips. Those were extra at significant cost. You need to confirm that these are included before buying as they will eat your price differential if bought separately.Kind RegardsFraser

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2012, 05:43:56 pm
content: Precisegauge.com sells it at 150USD and includes everythinghttp://www.precisegauge.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=106&products_id=436&zenid=7nrm9krischntd911lc3p36qq5It seems to me though, DD includes everything apparently

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 04:26:54 pm
content: T4P ,Too bad shipping is $50 to US .

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 08:17:07 pm
content: Yes i know that very well.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 01:47:54 pm
content: I did find a source $211 free shipping , just went to my bookmarks and it seems to be missing dang .Then also a black Friday sale after the 22nd , that I posted here .Also looking at the DE 5000, saw Daves teardown and waiting for the review .Those 2 seem to be the leaders in the range of meters ?I will be picking up one of either this month , but still trying to decide .

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 03:38:42 pm
content: I must have missed something , Agilent was not in my 2 choices [ I will have to go see if it should be ] ?My 2 choices at this time are the Mastech MS5308 & IET DE 5000 .Did a quick Google search & compair before posting , so it looks like what I missed was the IET is a copy of Agilent ?So the MS5308 is gaining the lead

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 03:47:36 pm
content: My mistakeThe DE-5000 I believe is the same chipset as the 5308. If the 5308 works as good as the DE-5000 you will be very happy.I removed the errant post.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 04:21:36 pm
content: John,The "Black Friday" sale you posted in the other thread is just a bogus script-made page to collect the Amazon affiliate commission when you end up buying the meter at the normal priceThe current Agilent does not seem to have any clones. The older versions were designed by Escort and shared with other manufacturers (BK Precision). The DE-5000 is not a "clone" of anything (although it is OEM by DER-EE), but it shares the same chipset as many other meters, and they all seem to have a similar basic design. There does seem to be some variation on implementation such as +/- Kelvin connections.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 09:06:28 pm
content: Thanks guys , its easy enough to get confused on my ownI'l be curious to see if anything changes on the black friday thing .One thing I have noticed about Amazon , I have bought many books and a few other things off Amazon , and I started to notice that it seems that if following a thread somewhere about a book , that after a short time , it seems that Amazon monitors the trafic and if there are a lot of searches , they raise the price ?I have seen a $30 book go for $90 at the end of a thread discussion .I have stopped buying from Amazon as a result , I still look at search results at Amazon , just to see if thats the case , its not all the time but happens offen enough to suspect it is the case .I would say in the last few yrs , I have seen at least 8-10 times this happen .

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 02:49:11 pm
content: To through more into the mix , on another site someone suggested this kit -http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 03:02:37 pm
content: I actually have that MW Instruments meter from when a version of it used to be sold as a kit by M3 Electronix in the USA. M3 is no longer in business. Unfortunately, I do not think that MW will sell to the United States. Too bad, that meter has some nice features like transformer testing.

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2012, 04:58:36 pm
content: can we use MS5308 as in circuit tester?can we measure ESR of capacitor and capacitor value without removing from PCB??

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2012, 05:14:53 pm
content: Same answer as in your other thread. AFIK the MS5308 uses the same chipset as the DE-5000. It has 0.5 Vrms excitation voltage or .707 peak. lower but I still dont think considered in circuit levels.I don't see a user cal button/feature on theMS5308 manual. This is a big deal if you intend to use tweezers or external clips.Edit: The cal button is on the top of the case. The DE-5000 manual shows how it works.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2012, 08:20:51 pm
content: You'll find b*gg*r all in the Mastech manual! it's a wsate of paper.Yes, get hold of the DE-500 manual - it all applies to the Mastech (which does have a calibrate button, as you point out).Lots of talk of probe measuring voltages, so here are some actual figures (across a 1uF mylar cap)At 100 Hz - 1.9V pk-pk AC waveform about 0VAt 1KHz - 1.4V pk-pk ACAt 10KHz 250mV Pk-PkAt 100KHz 28mV Pk-PkAnd across a "typical" supply cap of 470uF (standard, not particularly high quality low ESR)at 100 Hz - 55 mV Pk-Pk on a tiny DC offsetat 1KHz - ~15mV Pk-Pkhigher frequencies - unmeasurable!So in practice, in-circuit measurements are often way below transistor junction turn-on voltages.

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 02:08:38 pm
content: ok..more than 1KHz test frequency in circuit measurement is not possible??m i right???which one is cheap and better ESR meter please suggest

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 02:28:16 pm
content: NO! It's good for in circuit measurement.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 02:35:06 pm
content: Quote from: jtronix on November 17, 2012, 02:08:38 pmhere :http://kripton2035.free.fr/esr-repository.html

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 05:07:01 pm
content: i'm planning to buy LCR with ESR meter. i've seen Mastech MS5308, UNIT UT612, Agilent U1733C.Agilent is too costly and i'm not sure whether it can be use as in circuit testeri'm not able to find actual UNIT UT612 specification and also have doubt inin circuit measurementMastech MS5308 looks good and cheaper than Agilent. but i have doubt ofin circuit measurementof capacitance and ESR, accuracy and quality of product.any body using this meter hows it please share your experienceplease suggest me which one is good among this three. or should i buy only incircuit ESR meter seperatly.please clear my question

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 05:53:21 pm
content: Mastech is definitely heads-up for quality, accuracy is fairly goodUNI-T uses thesame CHIPIf you no doubt of the UT612 you have no doubt of the MS5308 + you get better leads with mastech, not a crappy SMD kelvin leads that look straight out of a 90s LCR meter brochurehttp://www.precisegauge.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=106&products_id=436Click on the image in the url for the item above and see the accessories, this is the main reason why i'm not buying the UT612 even if i'm a slightly hardcore UNI-T fan(probably but Aurora has a UNI-T toolkit ...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/uni-t-ut61e-multimeter-teardown-photos/msg81221/#msg81221)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 07:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: jtronix on November 17, 2012, 05:07:01 pmhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/uni-trend-2013-catalogue/?action=dlattach;attach=33208;image

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 09:58:21 pm
content: The larger the capacitance, and/or the higher the test frequency, the lower will be the capacitor's impedance. Large caps at high test frequencies result in immeasurably small AC values across the Device Under Test (DUT) - that's what I am driving at. I didn't everbothertrying to test the 470uF above 1 KHz.Summary - these ESR metersARE DESIGNEDto measure components in circuit. The onus is still on the user to understand enough about electronics in general, and the circuit under test in particular, to know if such measurements are indeed valid. Collections of closely wired networks of power inductors and filter caps in power supplies, or smaller components in complex close configurations in filters, will interfere with one another, when you try and take measurements on an individual component. No ESR meter can circumvent this!I have a Mastech 5308, and it suits my Hobby/home purpose. I probably wouldn't specify it for use on a production line. I've no doubt the Agilent is even better - and so it should be! But I just have no need for any such Betterness. (I think I might have just made that word up).Not a great fan of UNI-T equipment at all, but no experience of their LCR meter. If I have one criticism of my Mastech, it is that it comes in a larger case that is really at all necessary. The UNI-T's more "multimeter style/size" case might win some people over.<EDIT> Does the UNI-T device use the small 9V ("PP3" if you are old enough...) batteries? Hmm...the chipsets in these ~$150 meters will burn through little batteries in double-quick time (22 mA draw with the backlight on). The MS5308 does use 8 AA batteries.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 10:37:49 pm
content: I just sent off for the Mastech and was a little weary of the register questions Precisegauge , too much info , date of birth etc.Got for the sale price of $150 + $45 shipping so cheaper than another source $211 free shipping .The day after there was a classifieds sale of Tenma 72-960 for $90 shipped , that always happens

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2012, 10:41:10 pm
content: Unit-T uses 9V battery (6F22) or USB power connection for both their LCR meters.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 02:34:39 am
content: Quote from: LaurenceW on November 17, 2012, 09:58:21 pmI am curious how the Agilent can be better when it does not have 4 wire kelvin connections. The manual specs state the accuracy at the built in component clips (not kelvin). All the attachments are obviously only 2 wire. It does have a user open short cal. feature but can that completely correct without a Kelvin connection on the attachments? Not bashing the Agilent meter I just don't understand. Can some one enlighten me?

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 04:33:29 am
content: "LaurenceW"have you measure ESR of capacitor without desoldering the capacitor form PCB???does it gives correct reading??

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 06:48:39 am
content: please upload video demo of Mastech MS5308.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 03:23:03 pm
content: Yes I have, plenty of times, and yes it does work (within the limits that I described earlier about interference from other nearby components. You MUST take these into account).Sorry - I don't have the to put videos together. There is a LOT of info and pictures about various mid-price LCR/ESR meters around this forum. No point in me duplicating that in a movie.

author: DEHiCKA
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 08:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on November 17, 2012, 10:37:49 pmI got mine for $140 at the local store. Full package with the case and averything. I'm pretty sure there must be the way to get it even cheaper from china.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:19:50 pm
content: The $150 was from China + $45 shipping .The $211 - free shipping was a US source .

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 03:04:29 am
content: I made a little video review of the Mastech MS5308.Johnhttp://youtu.be/9el9mW5woSM

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 12:25:54 pm
content: Great review!

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 12:28:57 pm
content: Quote from: jwrtiger on November 29, 2012, 03:04:29 amExcellent review indeed. Aside from being a bit too bulky it looks like a very nice and feature rich LCR meter!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 01:01:40 pm
content: Nice review John. I was hoping to see it in action doing in circuit ESR however.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 03:05:58 pm
content: Good video , added to bookmarks to use as better manual .Thanks

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 07:04:37 pm
content: Glad you guys liked the review.Quote from: Lightages on November 29, 2012, 01:01:40 pmLightages, I had a hard time with this video because I want to do a lot more but was worried about the video length. I sure understand your comment and it would be nice to cover that topic along with more details on D, Q, and series and parallel modelling. Maybe a second video on the applications of an LCR meter/tester.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 09:06:01 pm
content: I also enjoyed your video John.Not only some ESR action but some in circuit cap testing would be entertaining.Did you resolve the mystery of the power supply causing the MS5308 to go inaccurate?Does this only occur when the MS5308 is powered on or when you turn it off and swap power sources as well?Perhaps connect it to your lab supply instead to quickly rule it out.I'm interested in one now after watching the video but I'd like to power mine from the mains.Am interested if anyone else can reproduce this?AC Test is at 33:26

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 09:18:37 pm
content: Hi Shock,I haven't done anymore testing of the problem with the power supply, DCR, RP, and Rs. I hope to check it out further in the next couple of days and will post my results. I also would like it to be connected to the mains most of the time. I actually like that it is big and bulky because my main interest was in a bench LCR meter.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 09:35:19 pm
content: Good review! I agree with your decision to limit the length, it's better to do a follow up video for extra content. Is the (loaded) voltage from the AC power supply the same as from the 8 AAs? Based on your results, it seems to me that the current in resistor test mode changes with the power supply voltage (someone screwed up the constant current source?). Try hooking it up to a bench supply and varying the voltage from AC power supply voltage down to 8 almost empty cells (~8 V if they're all in series) and see how this affects the results.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2012, 10:24:18 pm
content: When I noticed the length of the video , I was a little concerned .But once I started watching , I felt like it could go longer , much like a good movie , its hard to be too long

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2012, 04:04:00 am
content: Quote from: jwrtiger on November 29, 2012, 09:18:37 pmSomething occurred to me as I watched you plug in the external power - does the unit perhaps require a recalibration after a change in power source? I couldn't tell if you tested for that.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2012, 04:59:31 am
content: Hi, John.Great, informative video! For what it's worth, I did a very brief test using my DE-5000, which has the same chipset, and it does not vary resistance measurement with internal or external power source. It runs on a 9V battery, and the external DC pack (a switcher) is also 9V. Hope you can sort out your problem.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2012, 09:26:12 pm
content: Hi, noob here looking for a LCR/ESR meter. Question is, why would you opt for the Mastech when you could spend a few bucks more and get the smart tweezers? Is it because of the large screen readability? Or is it the higher frequency range?These tweezers:http://www.ebay.com/itm/170952376553?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2012, 09:31:10 pm
content: Accuracy specs on that are pretty poor for the money.

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 02:45:00 am
content: Hi all, Update on the Mastech LCR Tester problem with the resistance values changing when using the external supply. I have not done a complete test yet buy I patched in my linear bench power supply and the reading from internal battery to external power source had no change at all. So it looks like it is my Mastech's LCR external switching power supply. I am going to see if I can figure out what the actual problem was with the supply. I thought I could lift the bottom label and undo some screws but there are no screws so I guess it is glued together. Doesn't seem to have any clips/ears. I don't plan to contact the seller because I have the parts on hand to make a power supply at basically no cost and I will fuse it and it will be linear instead of switching. I hope in the future others can report and let me know if they had a problem with the external power supply.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 08:28:30 am
content: Quote from: FrankenPC on December 04, 2012, 09:26:12 pmLike why would you buy a smart tweezer? The mastech is properly, properly 100$ less than that and is a PROPER, PROPER LCR meter with Dissipation factor measurement and Series/Parallel mode does the tweezer have that?You have Q (damping) factor, and phase factorDoes it have RS232 either?Well really asking these sort of questions get these sort of answers, a proper LCR meter doesn't just measure caps inductors and resistors + ESR they measure a whole variety of factors too and ... trust me the higher frequency is useful for low value caps as it increases your accuracy unlike say at 10KHz

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 01:47:11 pm
content: POWER SUPPLY vs. BATTERYI finally picked up a large package of batteries , in order to do the test .I powered up the meter , then went through the calibration procedure , then found a NOS 3 watt 100 ohm carbon resistor that was waiting to get put away .It measured about 109.?? [ this was yesterday and did not write down the last digits ] and with the meter plugged in to the power supply , with batteries installed , I pulled the plug from the PS at the meter and no change to the reading , even at the the lowest number ., plugged back in PS and again no change .Again thanks for the video .

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 03:54:06 pm
content: Most likely the switching supply puts wideband noise into the supply rails, and this adds noise to the measurement, thus the errors.

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 03:55:47 pm
content: Please upload video of in circuit measurement of capacitor and ESR.

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 06:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on December 05, 2012, 01:47:11 pmI was wondering if you would test a resistor 10 k-ohms or higher. The reason is I think at low values there was not much change but at higher values the problem starts to appear. I do hope you have a good external supply and again I am happy you found the video useful. John

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 06:18:15 pm
content: I'l check out with some other values and get here with the info .

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 03:36:42 am
content: I did a follow up to the Mastech LCR Tester's external power module. The video is on YouTube:http://youtu.be/hA_0GnNO_2AJohn

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 05:45:19 am
content: HOLY CRAP IT ACTUALLY HAS A FUSE.Anyway, it lacks a inductor

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2012, 06:03:50 am
content: Another great video John. Good to know its in your power supply somewhere, better than a faulty meter.Wonder if its a 120v 60hz problem (despite the rating) you checked the caps right?Anyone else who has one of these confirmed the problem running on mains with the supplied power supply?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2012, 07:31:09 am
content: It needs moving the positive lead direct onto the cap, along with placing a ferrite bead on the diode lead, along with a snubber over the diode. A 100n ceramic cap across the big secondary one as well will help, though for best noise removal you need a 3 pin power lead with the earth connected to the output negative, along with 2 1n class Y caps on the input side from the bridge + and - to earth. That will get rid of most of the noise.Better though is to use this for another purpose ( run a light from it) and build a new unit with a mains transformer, bridge and voltage regulator on the output. As the meter uses less than 100mA it will be both cheap and small. You can repurpose a standard magnetic wall wart and place the regulator on it's output.

author: rowifi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 08:55:32 am
content: I've just taken delivery of the MS5308, and checking some small ceramic caps ( 10uf Hicap )using the tweezers notice that the capacitance measures quite different between the frequency ranges ( 6uF ... 14uF ) - and not in a linear way.I haven't had a chance to do any other checks yet but would be interested in any comments, and suggestions on best way to check calibration when I don't have a reference LCR meter.Instructions are poor, but general unit and accessories appear nice.Rob

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 11:49:05 am
content: Capacitance does change with frequency and indeed not lineairESR too. It is at max at 0.00000000000001 Hzand decreases rather fast until 10-20KHz, after that is goes slowly down and somewhere between 50 KHz and some MHz (depending the package ect)It starts to rise again due to things like skin effect.ESR is just one function. Not specified or a standard, everyone can call his cap low ESR. You need a datasheet to use this value so many digits is useless, if you really need that you need an vectoril impedance meter that makes freuency sweeps or read more about theory and think again if you need it. Also in tht case you never meaure in circuit, only if you have a high vslue you know for sure it is bad, a low value does not proof a thing. There can be others parallel ( coil, reistors, fuses, transformers, other caps ect). Important too is capacitance and for most DC leakage and DC bias.Most datasheets give ESR for 1 KHz or lower and Impedance for 100 KHz. Many ESR or LCR meters do not measure ESR but impedance.My home made ESR meter measures real ESR from 10 KHz to 100 KHz, but I had it working upto 300) it measures caps from 100 nF to over 15000 uF ( han no bigger ones) just 3 ICs, kelvin technique and a few dollars in cost. Checked it against two VNAs, a peak ESR meter and several HP and GR meters.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 02:29:14 pm
content: PA4TIM , could you give some more details on your home made meter ?Thanks

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 02:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on January 04, 2013, 02:29:14 pmexplained on his web site here :http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3775

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 03:11:20 pm
content: Thanks , too bad the hole page does not get translated .The column on the right is not seen by by my Google translate .

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 05:37:57 pm
content: In what would you translate it, it is in English, and i think that is your native tongue ;-)But that is my explanation about ESR, not about the meter.http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1728This is about meters. On the bottom there is a handdrawn schematic. I use a standard voltage panel meter for read out.There is a new version based on this one on its way. It is probably gonna be a kit in the near future, I'm working with some friends on that. ( i have not much experience in pcb drawing so they do that part) and it must be affortable and allthough components are not expensive, all together including display, cabinet ect will make it more expensive like i want. It is not to make a profit, i do not care for that, but it i do not want it to cost me money snd I'm no company so I can not buy big numbers cheap. So the form of the kit will be a questionmark.The changes are small. First i changed the oscillator and flipflop idea because that performance turned out to be component dependend. Then the inverters used to split the signal had to go ( 74LS14 and 04 ( old stock) are tried worked on my proto very welk but on the pcb proto we found out new ones were not consistant in dutycycle, so to much product deppendacy too,) so i thought of a better solution. The oscillator frequency is now doubled. This is no problem at all. Just a bigger potentiometer. Mine runs 20-200KHz.Then I use a 4013 divider to divide the frequency by 2. Very simple, and i have two nice opposite phase signals and a perfect 50 % dutycycle.This setup i made about a month ago and all tests are good now.Now we must design a better pcb, the first one was not up to my wishes and standards. ( I'm an analog guy, the ocb artist is nost times doing digital stuff) To much crosstalk and leakage, to thin traces ect. But the schenatic as it is on the link, will work. But not optimal, but if you find a Parker or Peak meter good, and use it at 100 KHz only this will be more then good enough. With the changes it will be a lot better.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2013, 07:03:50 pm
content: The way the site shows up on my computer the column / box on the right is in , I guess your language .Inside the top of the box on the right is the zoeken / search , then below that is the categorieen / category and everything else in that box .It would seem that my automatic search option does not see the box I am referring to ?

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2013, 02:56:32 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 04, 2013, 11:49:05 amI don't find the described behavior of capacitor ESR to be common, especially with respect to aluminum electrolytics. It does seem to be more common with non-electrolytics, but even then it's mostly older capacitors with dielectrics that aren't as good as the modern materials.For example, attached are two images from an impedance analyzer showing the impedance and ESR vs. frequency. The frequency is swept from 50Hz to 5 MHz. The vertical scale is logarithmic with 100 ohms at the top and 1 milliohm at the bottom. In these plots the impedance (Z) is the green curve and the ESR is the yellow curve.The first image shows an old cap with unknown dielectric; it might even be paper. The second image shows a modern MKP capacitor made by WIMA.The ESR is always less than the impedance, and just touches the impedance curve at the capacitor's series resonance frequency (SRF). For a non-electrolytic capacitor like these two, the losses are low enough that the slope of the impedance curve increases substantially as the SRF is approached, with almost a sharp point at the bottom of the curve.Notice that the old cap ESR decreases by about 3 orders of magnitude from 50Hz to the SRF. The ESR of a non-electrolytic capacitor at frequencies below the SRF is typically dominated by the dielectric losses, and with modern dielectrics the variation is not so great compared to the older, inferior, dielectrics.The ESR for the MKP capacitor is so low (3 milliohms at the minimum) that it is difficult for the analyzer to measure accurately.I find that aluminum electrolytics typically don't have much increase in ESR as the frequency decreases to very low values because the non-frequency-dependent losses in the electrolyte, etc., are so great that they dominate. I'm going to start a new thread in the Projects, Designs and Technical stuff forum and post a number of plots of capacitor parameters vs. frequency.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2013, 01:43:14 am
content: I have done a lot of VNA meaurements on capacitors. But also using RF-IV like you do ( but I can do phase too) i can sweep from 1KHz to 1500 MHz. Also have several bridges including the famous GR1620.It is long told the ESR is at it lowest point at SRF, but like your plot of a new cap hows, it is not.Indeed the ESR can never be higher as Z and is equal to Z at resonance, but that does not have to be the lowest value.About decreasing frequency and increasing ESR, your plots show what I mean, it is not lineair, it falls off quick from allmost DC to about 20 Khz and then it goes more slow.Calibrated good fixtureCalibrated but bad fixture for the same capBUT, do you use a real calibrated fixture for these sweeps ?And has your calibrationkit known parameters ?I use a calibration that involves open, short, load and a series of knoen capacitors so allmost all strayes are compensated for. The VNA then uses 12 term error correction. I use special low Z fixtures for ESR and high Z fixtures for things like measuring fF ( and customtraces to transform S21 into R + jX.What instrument you use, the plots look very good, similar to what I get ( how the Rs and Z behaves)Problem with real good ( mica, MKP ect) caps is to find the SRF because, deembeded and clibrated right it can be several hundred MHz. Then calculate ESL from that and make a corrected jX sweep. If calibration goes wrong you are only looking at the SRF of the setup.

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2013, 06:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 11, 2013, 01:43:14 amI started another thread in what seems to be a more appropriate forum:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/capacitor-measurements-on-an-impedance-analyzer/The analyzer I used to produce the plots can do phase, and every other parameter you can imagine. See the first attached image for a screen shot of the available parameters. I mainly want to show the behavior of electrolytics and there doesn't seem to be much point in attempting to measure parameters into the GHz range. It's really hard to fixture electrolytics to a GHz VNA.Quote from: PA4TIM on January 11, 2013, 01:43:14 amYour VNA plots are using a linear frequency axis. This is typical of VNAs, although some can be set to display on a logarithmic frequency axis. Most plots of ESR and impedance that can be found on manufacturer's web sites have a logarithmic frequency axis. I find that it's difficult to draw conclusions about how fast ESR is falling off at low frequencies when the frequency axis is linear. The second and third attached images show a sweep of an electrolytic with both a log sweep and a linear sweep. You can see that it's difficult to see in much detail what's happening at the lowest frequencies. Can you change your plots to have a logarithmic frequency axis?Quote from: PA4TIM on January 11, 2013, 01:43:14 amIn the other thread I give a link to the impedance analyzer I'm using. These relatively low frequency analyzers (5 MHz highest frequency, compared to several GHz typically for a VNA) only need to calibrate with an open and a short. The fixture is connected to the front panel's 4 terminals and the short and open are applied to the fixture's measuring points; it is this style of fixture:http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-1000000479%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-16047E/test-fixture-40-hz-to-110-mhz?nid=-34051.536880747.00&cc=US&lc=engThe open is just the absence of anything in the fixture, and the short is a small shorting bar that comes with the fixture.Quote from: PA4TIM on January 11, 2013, 01:43:14 amAs I said, I'm mainly concerned with electrolytics, and even for the non-electrolytics that I may show, the frequency range I'm using is reasonably similar to what can be measured by the low-cost ESR and LCR meters that are often discussed on the forum.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2013, 06:46:23 pm
content: My VNAs are able to make plots from 1KHz but using some special settings it can go down to 10 Hz. Several of my bridges do 10Hz to 100 KHz too. On VNA does 100 KHz to 110 MHz, the RF-IV does 1 KHz to 100 MHz. My home made ESR meter does 10 to 100 KHz.If I use a vna for electrolitics i most times sweep 1 KHz to 100 KHz, or 1 to 1000 KHz or whatever I want.I also use a special fixture that sets 50 Ohm in series with the DUT for measuring ESR ( but not using a RF-IV testhead)It can do log, lineair , custom, smith, polar and radar plots. But that does not matter, optical it looks different but its all the same. It is al based on the waveparameters and then converted to scattering parameters and thnigs like Rs, phase, Xc and all the other things you like ( from RL to group delay)The magnitude at frequency X does not change wen changing the axis, only the position on the X-ax. If you want to look at the non-linear decrease of ESR vs Frequency it makes only sense to use a linear sweep.But i have not invented this and It is not really worh the discussion, you have the gear to test it yourself, and you can read it in every good book about capacitors ( or general radio experimeters, app notes from lcr\bridge\vna\Impedance meter manufacturers, literature from cap manufactures or books like analog SEEcrets)This is not to offend you, just a few little minor points. I Think your comments in discusions about cas are very good. And it is nice to know I'm not the only one mad enough to do a lot of capacitor resource.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 02:07:32 pm
content: MS5308 died directly when connected power adapter, total dead and wont fire up with battery either. Brand new 30min test.Did ofcourse check the chines poweradaptor DC 12v fore Ac-rippel and more. It have that 100kHz nosie shown in youtube review.Just wonder if it happend to other owners ?

author: jwrtiger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 04:23:33 pm
content: Sorry to hear about the failure to your LCR Tester. I am still playing around with that power supply for fun and I have pretty much created a schematic diagram of the circuit. The output after the transformer is just a half-wave rectified, capacitor filtered circuit. It is still working when I connect it to my LCR Tester but of course the error is still there in the resistance modes. I tried an $8.00 (USD) linear power supply from Jameco and initially it seems to work... need to check it out completely. I still plan to make my own supply in the next few weeks.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 06:40:47 pm
content: And iam sorry x 10, i start to like the meter very much and have around 8 devices to check dissipation factor. Also NOT funny to get email answer from seller " check battery " . In the end i think i will a get new unit. So its warranty issue.Heard from other person that had similar problem: when push "startbutton" 12v will go to voltage regulators and out to the board, the small IC got 5v and the big IC and around it only gets 1.2v. Something is pulling it down. And he thinks its regulator curcuit or IC, also he dident try cut of delivery to IC.People shoud be careful with putting on Powesupply when meter is on battery !Specially with that shitty original build PSU. No warnings in manual either.The killing thing must be more like bad revision on PCB, sensitive to transients or something, how shoud i know.Come on mastech this can be a winner.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 06:59:27 pm
content: I got my hands on one of these a while ago. This post is based on my recollection.It had the same problem of inaccurate resistance readings when on AC power as reported by John. Replacing the power supply with a 12 V linear wall wart fixed the problem. One of the on-board voltage regulators, either the 5 V or 3.3 V regulator, were specified for up to 8 V input, 10 V absolute max. There were a few diodes in series with the power input, but the voltage at the regulator was above 11 V. I installed an 7810 (with filter caps) between the DC power input and main PCB. This appeared to work fine, apart from the battery level indicator showing only two bars when on AC power.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 08:02:27 pm
content: Sounds like your recollection is spot on.The other guy told me he got 12v in to the regulator, Pin1-1.2v pin2-12v pin3-12v on his meter. He didnt se any 3.3v anywere. Great Mastech !Just wonder how it can survive battery 12.5v, maybe the diodes in series you talk about is zener that keep the voltage down.Many thanks.PS.The PSU will hang on chrismastree next year and its not importent, i did or do like the meter it self.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 08:35:33 pm
content: So what is the consensus at this point about this meter? Messing up the voltage regulators is pretty amateurish. I had very little faith in Mastech as a brand already and it doesn't sound like it's getting any better. But on the other hand, this MS5308 seems to be the goto meter that people recommend over the only slightly cheaper models using this same seemingly capable chipset. At 200USD this really isn't a new toy impulse buy anymore where I don't care if it doesn't work as expected.Is this MS5308 still the best in this price range and feature set? What is the next step up, and not just build quality but also feature set?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 09:33:37 pm
content: actually the top in its class has been discussed in eev forum - it seems to be the IET DE-5000 - but arround $350the probes accessory are important and the low end meters have crappy probes.you need 4 wires probes to make real measurments on an lcr meterthey all use the same chip, I even found a "copy" here in france for 120 EUR...http://www.ietlabs.com/de5000-lcr-meter.html

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 09:42:11 pm
content: Mine should be here any day now - Does it NEED the 12VDC Input? or can we use a 9VDC Plugpack (also popular).If there's series dropping diodes, it'd much easier to bridge them out than adding a regulator? I'd have no problem with that fix.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 11:11:50 pm
content: I think one of the diodes is for reverse polarity protection, and the other is for switching between battery and AC power. I didn't study the circuit in detail. I tested the minimum input voltage, and I think it shut down at somewhere close to 9 V (don't remember if it was below or above it), so I would expect a 9 V wall wart to be too low / unreliable.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 03:03:09 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on January 17, 2013, 09:33:37 pmThat is what I thought but why does the Agilent U1733C not have 4 wire connections at all? I have asked this in multiple threads but no one ever responds. I am not Agilent bashing! I just dont understand how they can properly do a open/short cal with only 2 leads.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 08:51:07 am
content: There are more ways and different modes. With inductors the testlead form an inductance, shorting the leads makes it posible to compensate for that inductance, it also compencates for resistance. But leads akso do have capacitance. An open calibration eleminates that. Looks good.But, the Capacitance changes with position of the wires, the capacitance and inductance are still there. A capactor or inductor under test have paracitics too. So the total is a rather compex network. So to really compensate there must be a lot of complex math going on in the LCR meter.There are 2, 3, 4 and 5 wire ( and i believe even more) measurements. Two wire is good for clipping components dirct to the meter. 3 wire is used on almost all bridges including one of the best C meters ever made.This uses guarding. This takes away the paracitic capacitance of cables and shields them from external signals. But not for the resistance. I'm not sure about selfinuctance. I use my bridges not much for percicion L measurements. I use my vna or a special 2 terminal pH resolution self-inductance bridge for that. If i measure capacitance uing a three wire methode and guarded dutholder on my GR1620 paracitic capacitance is less as 1 pF and D is at zero, after 2 coax cables that are 1 meter long. If i use two wire this way it is around 80 pf. A bridge is ble to measure phase differences so three wires will do.4 wire is most times for non bridge configurations by sourcing the test current through two wires and measuring the voltage result and phase between voltage and current direct at the DUT. This is the main reason they use it. Testsignal and resultsignsl are separted and so reducing errors. Whit to wire you can not measure phase error and this is the most important thing while trying to split an impedance into a resistive part and reactancet. Shielding or guarding the cables is again possibble to compensate for stray capacitance.But this is a very incompete and rough explanation. There are several general radio experimenters downloadable at IET labs that go in depth about all methods inluding a lot of math.Also the Agilent impedance measurement handbook goes into detail ( and they wrote some articles about measuring very small impedances. This is allways 3 or more wire. There is many literature about this,

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 11:08:27 am
content: Important message from seller of my MS5308 that confirms problem with the AC power adapter:From: support2@aidetek.comTo: "nixxon"Subject: Very urgent issue regarding power adapter for MS5308FW: Item #380482359785Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 02:53:34 -0800Very urgently!Thank you very much for your purchase MSTECH MS5308, I am very sorry to let you know the manufacturer found a bug in power adapter for MS5308, soplease do NOT use power adapter for MS5308 LCR meter, it may burn your meter, once we have further solution from manufacturer, we will let you know and we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience for you, please feel free to contact us at support@aidetek.com if you have any further concern regarding this, thank you very much for your cooperation.Come back to our ebay stores for more new items:http://stores.ebay.com/smtzonehttp://stores.ebay.com/AideTech-USAThanks and best regards,Cherry Tanwww.aidetek.com22 Straton Ct.Parlin, NJ 08859 USATel: (408) 329-7985Fax: (866) 571-5680e-mail: support@aidetek.com

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 11:33:54 am
content: Bizar, a manufacturer that makes instruments but can not made a simple powersupply ? And even worse, delivers many of them and still not have a solution yet. And if I understand well this is not a cheap 30 dollar LCR meter.Mastech

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 11:37:53 am
content: Just got the same mail from aidetech.Dident got any UK returnadress in 4days.@kripton2035, do you call it "clone" when its same chipset or is it actually clone of complete IET DE-5000 ?Looking for europen supplyer, where did you find that 120euro meter ?Dosent need better spec. then MS5308.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 11:52:54 am
content: The PSU is the cheap solution, if they insted fix the real problem on the main PCB or both ofcourse.Evidence is clearly when mastech them self have moved one powercabel from original place to a resistor.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 12:01:02 pm
content: Next email.Thank you, we sold many of these and so far only one return in USA, the same problem with you, actually we already contacted manufacturer about this, and we are told probably there is bug of design of power adapter, the manufacturer is working on this issue now, we will either repair or replace the one on your hand, could you please allow several days for us to get reply from manufacturer, we will get back to you sometimes next week, once again, I sincerely apologize for the problem, let me know if you have any further concern, thank you- aidetech_usSo i trigger this to happend, think there are alot more people out there with same problem.....

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 12:23:50 pm
content: Quote from: mrubbert on January 18, 2013, 11:37:53 amthe "same chip french" clone here :http://www.selectronic.fr/pont-de-mesure-rlc-metre-11000-points-doule-lcd.htmlthey use the same Cyrustek chip ES51920 but they are not the same outside, and the supplied accessories also.this one has esr measurment and 100KHz test signal.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 12:35:41 pm
content: I got the same email from Aidetek as well. In my case, I rarely ever use the plugpacks that come with these "unknown" sourceitems anyway. Unless they're something "special", in which case I'll open them up and check them myself. Plugpacks are notworth a lot, and it's good insurance to stay with what you trust. I'm mildly impressed that they did inform buyers, there's a LOTof big name brands I've had issues with that didn't give a rats ass.

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 12:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: mrubbert on January 18, 2013, 11:52:54 amCould you please explain that a little further? Are there two versions of the MS5308? Any pictures of the eventual mod?

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 02:44:52 pm
content: Look at jwrelectros superb reviewIam not a engineer, but they obvius moved -cabel from original place to resistor.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 04:04:15 pm
content: Quote from: mrubbert on January 18, 2013, 11:52:54 amI'l like to see more on that also ?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 04:17:41 pm
content: I believe mrubbert is referring to around 29:26 of the video where you can see the power connections have clearly been changed from the original PCB design.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 04:55:28 pm
content: 1. @iloveelectronics, Yes. And it dosent look like a better practical or easier soldering place.2. @alm, One of the on-board voltage regulators, either the 5 V or 3.3 V regulator, were specified for up to 8 V input, 10 V absolute max. There were a few diodes in series with the power input, but the voltage at the regulator was above 11 V. I installed an 7810 (with filter caps) between the DC power input and main PCB. This appeared to work fine, apart from the battery level indicator showing only two bars when on AC power.3. I think 99% i have blown regulator.4. Ofcourse its not to blame aidetech_us, they are trying to help us out.5. Mastech was growing with 30% last year, 300 million $ +. (wonder why) They can afford to help custumers.6.How long do YOU whant to wait:Distance Selling Regulations, which allow you to cancel the purchase within seven working days after the day you receive the item.You have to check if its accepted from the place you ordered from.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 05:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 18, 2013, 08:51:07 amThanks PA4TIM that makes more sense now.From my analysis of the specifications of DE-5000 and The U1733C even though the U1733C is generaly more accurate, its lack of 4 wire connections realy shows with its poorer performance at the low end of of the low ranges of resistance and capacitance. This also makes its extra digit of resolution on its 2 ohm range meaningless. (+/- 500% of value at 1 milliohm)Edit; fixed chartThese are the% of VALUE+/- max errors calculated from the % reading + counts specs of each unit. I used the most accurate Hz of each unit in each range. The highlighted values are the more accurate.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 05:17:45 pm
content: Compliments on the video made by jwrelectros. He shows the inside, does measurements agains known values ect. This is how i like reviews.But that resistance changing thing when using the AC adapter is real bad. And that wire soldered to a smd is weird. It was not weird if it was solving a problem until a new revision is made, the bad thing is it still has problems.I have a lot of precision stuff for measuring components but I like to have a handheld too. I had a Voltcraft ( looks like the extech but i did not liked it, under 10 pF it was useless, aircoils were also imposible to meaure correct so I traded that with a friend to a Tek TM5000 chassis and some plugins.But today I ordered the IET DE5000. Very nice snd helpfull people there. I had asked some information about an old GR bridge there a while a go and even then got a quick and helpfull repley. So I rather go for save and trust on the IET reputation as something like that Mastech with a too poor powersupply. In the price range that is sold, that is just a very major screw-up and if it was mine I had returned the hole meter.

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 05:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on January 18, 2013, 04:17:41 pmThanks for pointing out the time in the video. Here is a screenshot of the actual components taken from the superb jwrelectros video.External power negative lead is connected to resistor "R16" and not to power connector, "P7", "GND".Maybe this setup is serving as a voltage divider. When I receive my MS5308, I will take a closer look at it. I wonder what the resistance is between either side of "R16" and "GND".Maybe the PCB was designed for 9 volts external power (less than 12 volts) and Mastech made this ingenious setup for the meter to handle a 12 volt power supply that was already designed for some other gadget? I am of course just speculating here...

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 05:51:07 pm
content: Is the power supply problem really a problem?With a 14.5 mAh drain by the MS5308 and a set of 2269 mAh IKEA alkaline batteries (http://www.batteryshowdown.com/results-lo.html), you should get a run time of exactly 156 hours and 29 minutes. That is almost a week's, around the clock use (6.52 days)...You can measure a lot of L, C and R in that period of time

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 06:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: nixxon on January 18, 2013, 05:51:07 pmNo, not in practice but for a 200 dollar LCR meter I would not accept this. Makes you wonder about the rest of the design. For instance if you have a charged cap, or static, or just EMC problems. But what bothers me the most is the measurements are influenced by the powersupply. So what happens if your battery voltage drops, or you use rechargable cells (so a 0.3V per cell lower voltage)

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 06:37:51 pm
content: Quote from: nixxon on January 18, 2013, 05:27:33 pmIt looks like the wire is connected to ground, my guess is it was just easier to solder it to the resistor than to the connector hole.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 06:54:53 pm
content: Quote from: nixxon on January 18, 2013, 05:27:33 pmI seem to remember that they were directly connected by a PCB trace.Quote from: nixxon on January 18, 2013, 05:27:33 pmIt will just display low battery and switch off at either 9 V or slightly below it.Quote from: nixxon on January 18, 2013, 05:51:07 pmYou can't disable auto power off except by connecting an external power source, as far as I know. I'm sure you could install a switch that would trick the meter into thinking it was fed by AC power.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 06:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 18, 2013, 05:17:45 pmI anxiously await your assessment of its functionality and accuracy. I know mine is exceptionaly accurate on low ohms but you will be able to check it all

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2013, 07:13:01 pm
content: Quote from: alm on January 18, 2013, 06:54:53 pmI meant that without the "R16-mod", the meter might accept lower voltage, like 6 - 12 volts from a 9v supply.With the "R16-mod", the meter may need higher voltage, like 9 - 15 volts.Who knows; maybe the R16 resistor is ground (at wire solder joint side) as suggested. Maybe the the negative power lead was just too short to reach the "GND" point without possibly touching the +12V wire.

author: Circuitous
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 03:47:49 am
content: @pa4tim I look forward to hearing about your experience with the DE-5000 when you get it.I've debated the DE-5000 vs. the Mastech. I think the recent posts about the Mastech have convinced me to go with the alternative 4-wire ESR.Does anyone know of a good US supplier, or should I just order it fromhttp://www.ietlabs.com/de5000-lcr-meter.html?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 03:57:02 am
content: I bought mine direct from IET. You can go to amazon but it is supplied by IET anyway at the same price.I love mine but be aware there is NO INPUT PROTECTION. The board looks like it has pads for protection diodes but it is unpopulated. I have asked IET about what it could be populated with but have gotten no response yet.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 08:45:27 am
content: Now I think about it, Bridges ect also do not have input protection. You do not use 4 wire technic to polute measurements with protection devices ( sparcgaps, diodes and zeners have capacitance l inductance and leakage current)But there is no warning on the cover or in the manual about overload ( or I missed it) and i looked for that.I bought mine as a private person from IET direct. But I know someone ( from mail, helped me a lot with advise when restoring my GR1608) who used to work there for many many years. That helped probably. I do not know if they sell to private persons normaly.I have seen the mastech video but there are many things different. Like the mastech des not work on 9 V, the IET does, the IET has autopower of, also for the backlite, the calbutton is on the front, where it belongs, the accuracy is given for each range separate including things like tempco but best is 0.3 % and mastech 0.5 % but I could not find more. And there are more small differenences. Like the guard output, banana busses, case. But indeed a lot of similarities in functions (like always when people clone something and want you to think it is the same) and the pcb is green and uses two chips. But I do not care, IET has a reputation to hold to, they will not gambe with that. They make c meters that cost over 20k Dollar, this is the only affortable instrument they make so it would be stupid to screw that up. So that is more inportsnt to me. Every time I made an other choise i have regretted it in the end. I had a rigol scope I hated, i had a Voltcraft LCR meter ( 180 euro) that I did not like, had a 250 euro Voltcraft scope meter that died making a mistake that did no harm to my Fluke ( because after the VC blew up I took my oldest Fluke and that only said overload. After the Rigol I desides not to buy B brands any more but save longer or buy a good used one from a A brand. So now I have bought new over some years: a very good 350 MHz Hameg DSO ( i love it), an Agilent 50K count hand multimeter that is still going strong after a lot of use and abuse and a Keithley 2000 i like and use a lot. The rest is second hand stuff, often restorred by myself and most bought for peanuts or got it for free. But all top instruments. Like Jim Williams writes in the first chapter of his book, there is nothing more educational as repairing ( and a picture with a scope under repair, a pizza and some drinks and the text with it, live can not become better then this.) and he wrote, i'm probably he only one on a flee market willing to pay more for a broken instrument as for a working one ;-)The chipset is not visible on the teardown from dave so the guess is only it uses the same chipset. But it is also possible the cirrus is a copy of the IET or the IET is a custom version or better speced one. I think the potting is not to hide the readings , there are more easy ways to do that, but i would expect the potting has to do with more precision ( like potted or sealed resistors and caps to keep moisture ans leakage through dirt have less influence) I have seen boards in calibrators there were totaly coverd with a sort of potting layer. I had to replace a part on duch a board, i ad to use a drenel firs to remove his very thin film before I could desolder ( also have seen boards Printing : look out, do not touch, ultrasonic cleaned)Hmmm, another piece of consumer electronic shit died on me, now I have to look to my router. It is constantly stops the wifi

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 02:08:06 pm
content: Thanks PA4TIM, now i also whant IET meter, if i just had the passion like Jim Williams (never heard of him before).http://www.introni.it/pdf/Williams%2007%20-%20Book%20Chapters.pdfPicture is in chapter: Importence of fixing.If money was for nothing and the chicks for free "Dire Straits"Sometime i need to take a strong drink and make the order, at that moment i got passion and are not afraid of: I dont have a work ? If the car gets broken ? The roof on house is not that good ? when did i buy new cloths last time? how does it affect wife and children? Charter flight to warm place in winter? only have analog oscilloscope ? just whant to repair home electronic ? Alway good to have automotive diagnose equipment ? dosent make money on electronic but save some ? uhhh... Doctor,doctor give me the newsRight now a cocktail and EL-cheapo cyrustek fits good, other side of head tells " i hate work with cheap meters that i cant trust" so Better meters are only better for messuring ! I have no problem to afford IET, i just like to put my money where i making money, love all kind of tools they always saving money so its maybe stupid to buy EL-cheapo..................I baught i dedicated capacitanse only meter 15 years ago and it still working.If IET meter last 10 year then cost is only 40 us$/year, that is cheap !Finally the calculation is done !No need of strong drink to order IET, but for the passion to repair.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 03:41:11 pm
content: Now that this issues have been found , I hope to see some mods / upgrades

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2013, 06:00:03 pm
content: The IET is actually not made by them. It is made in Taiwan by a company called DER-EE. It appears to be a standard Cirrus chipset design generally (the IET manual is basically the chipset manual), but done without shortcuts (e. g., penny-pinching on the power supply, oversized case to use up some surplus cases). As PA4TIM says, they have a reputation to keep up, and they apparently confirmed the performance of that LCR meter. I'm very happy with mine, but I have to admit I have nothing better to compare with. I completely agree that buying from top names (new or used) is a way to get a well-designed product without headaches. It may be overpriced for what it is, it may have less features, but you will never think, "I HATE this thing! This design is ridiculous! Didn't they try using this thing before deciding to sell it???" Packing a power supply that causes the meter to malfunction is unacceptable at any price, in my opinion, and clearly some shortcut must have been taken on the power input that the meter doesn't even recognize that the power supply is malfunctioning and continues to pretend everything is fine.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 01:23:43 am
content: If you whant to mod this ?Then start with input power switching: Inrush current, transients, noise, softswitching between battery and adapter.... + everything else i have no clue about.Here is something Linear using in cellphones and laptops:http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/4411fa.pdfHow fun is it to pay 200 and start with that, looks like multilayer PCB, not dubble.More fun if you manage to read eprom and figure out how the calibrate it, maybe copy IET and paste in 5308.Its possible that EL-cheapo cyrustek meters have a contract that Dosent allow them to have better spec. Buisness is buisness and someone have paid alot for development !

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 09:22:58 am
content: cyrustek has orders not to sell their chip to non (lcr)-instruments-making companies...

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 10:44:13 am
content: ...... John, wish to mod-modificate it or upgrade, Not build new one.Thanks, its good to know that you cant buy new chipset if you blow them up.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 11:03:39 am
content: if you want to have a good lcr meter and have full access to chips and source code, just build this one :http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-go-russian.html

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 11:30:10 am
content: @grenert, good point about Taiwan made, prefer to support EU or US economy. another miss in calculation.This is original Taiwan made ! that means IET,BK,Agilent.... are cloneshttp://www.lutron.com.tw/ugC_ShowroomItem_Detail.asp?hidKindID=3&hidTypeID=158&hidCatID=&hidShowID=1226&hidPrdType=&txtSrhData=This is good exampel planned downgrad spec. :* Function is same as the LCR-9184, but without LCD backlight structure, without sorting function?and the spec. accuracy is larger than LCR-9184.. (in % ) = worse.Did throw away a mail to them. IF its cost 100$ with shipment when its intressting.Better picture and info.:http://www.pedak.nl/Lutron/pdf/LCR-9184.pdfIn europe it cost almost same as IET=forget it

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 11:49:25 am
content: @kripton2035, thanks it looks very nice, but i have no time to build things. I am just a simple repair man and only missing ESR, Df readings. So i dosent need the best spec.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 01:10:38 pm
content: IET Labs told me it is their design and made under their supervision/control in Taiwan. That was the only way to keep the price down.But you can get it for 150 dollar more with nist certificate. You do not offer that option if it is not a good design and if the specs are only made for marketing.Using a manufacturer or a existing chipset does non mean they are clones or have the same specs or quality. In that case you could say every multimeter using a LM399 is as good. But if the resistors in model X are carbon composite and in model Y vaccuum sealed 0.001% wirewound with zero tempcoI think the LM399 in the first is a waist, but 90 % of EEV blog will say, great, model X is a great bang for buck. I buy that one because it is a clone from Y and uses a LM399 so it must be as good

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 01:21:22 pm
content: Are they clones, or all they all based on the sane Cyrustek reference design?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 02:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 20, 2013, 01:10:38 pmThat is a little different than the story I got when I asked the same question about a year and a half ago. This is from one of my first posts on this forum about the meter."I talked to an IET tech before I bought it and asked how they achieved this price. He quickly said Taiwan. They looked a long time to find a meter that they felt lived up to the IET reputation. They finally found this meter and after extensive testing partnered with them to sell this meter."

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 04:43:32 pm
content: Maybe I misunderstoot, English is not my native tongue. He wrote: the LCR Meter is manufactured in Taiwan under our direction. I thought that that means they own the factory so ( a directeur in Dutch is the boss/owner of a company, so i think Direction means they own that company but you are frim the US so you can tell. So it is a construction like the Agilent multimeters ? ( allthough Agilent later bought that company)Fact is, if they designed it or not, or maybe partly, it lives up to the hight IET standards and that is what matters for me. But do I understand it well, you have it now for over a year ? And you are still satified ?Hope it arrives soon and I'm anxious to know how accurate it meaures my standard ( GR, ESI, Philips, HP) and against the Boonton 63H, GR1620, GR1608 and VNAAlltough testing inductors does not make much sense because selfinductances varies rather much under voltage, current, frequency and DC bias.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 06:32:25 pm
content: I am very satisfied with the DE-5000. Like you, I did a lot of research on what was available and even called IET to find out how a US company with their reputation could sell a meter at this price point. The Agilent U1733C had a lot of adjustable user interface features that are very nice and slightly better banner spec. But I could not get past the total lack of 4 wire connections and the poorer low ohms performance.I compared the DE-5000 to mycalibratedLOM-510A micro ohm meter on a nominally 50mOhm resistor. LOM-510A reads 58.76mOhm (max error +/- 35uOhm) and the DE-5000 in series resistance mode at 1kHz reads a very slow bobble between 58-59mOhm and it is on 59 most of the time. This is with my kelvin connectors shown herehttp://youtu.be/wwgO6Lg4RZM?t=50m12sadded to the tweezer or alligator clip adapter box. the alligator clips that come with the unit are not kelvin even though the source and sense are kept separate all the way to the clip.I have nothing to verify the accuracy of its capacitance or inductance. That is why I am very excited that you are getting one. I am sure you are not going to learn anything about LCR from me, but this may be of interest from another post.DE-5000 LCR meter on ESR measurements. I was initially disappointed at the low ESR resolution on large value caps but then I wondered if the series resistance mode gives the same readings as ESR in capacitance mode.To access ESR, D, Q , and theta you have to be in manual series capacitance mode (not auto LCR mode) then you can cycle through each on the secondary display. I can measure a 1000uF cap at 100Hz thru 1kHz but at 10kHz and 100kHz it gives overload which it should. In auto LCR mode it actually shows the inductance of the cap at 100kHz.The max ESR resolution at 1kHz is 0.01 Ohm and this 1000uF cap reads 0.04 Ohm. If I switch to reading series resistance it reads .047 Ohm (1mOhm resolution) still at 1kHz. Now in series resistance mode I can switch the frequency to 10kHz and it reads 0.045 Ohm and switch to 100kHz and it reads 0.032 Ohm.Now a 6000uF cap (reads 7450uF) at 120Hz gives an ESR of 0.0 and I cant go to 1kHz because it will show overload. Switch to series resistance mode and I get 0.075 Ohm at 1kHz, 0.068 Ohm at 10kHz, and 0.065 Ohm at 100kHz.So it seems the series resistance mode is an effective high resolution ESR reading and allows all frequencies to be used. I could be misguided here so please comment if this is bogus.EDIT: fixed video link

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2013, 08:39:16 pm
content: Cheaper then ms5308 was a dead end to me, shit so many hours on that adventure.I will give Mastech one more chance and never put poweradapter in to it.Next choice is IET.Good info robrenz, have to check the video also.It will be intresting when master PA4TIM compares with your meter.Always good thing and not to buy from a shitplace like aliexpress.Just return it if you not like it !

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2013, 02:42:17 pm
content: Reply from seller regarding faulty power supply:Dear "nixxon",That's good, thanks for your information.also the manufacturer are working at the issue now, we will get back to you when we get the further solution from manufacturer, thank you.- smtzone

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 02:38:20 pm
content: I finally received my first order of MS5308's today. I will be making a post under the Buy and Sell forum soon but before that I'd like to first report what I found with the unit I tested regarding the power adapter issue.I watched John's video review again, specially the part where he showed the problem with resistance measurement when plugged in with the power adapter. I tried to replicate what he did. So here are my findings:- At lower reistance, up to about 5k ohms, the power adapter has no effect on the reading at all.- Starting from near 5k to near 10k, the reading would either jump up or down a little the moment you plug in the adapter, but would soon settle back to the original reading- From near 10k onwards, the effect becomes more apparent. The reading would not settle to the original value anymore. At 20k ohms, which is what John showed in his video, my unit reads about 19.7k (as oppose to John's 29k or something).- The drift in the readings becomes more and more significant as the resistance value goes up. At about 470k my unit reads 503k, representing an error of about 7%.Now, I have no idea if they have partially fixed the problem in this batch sent me, or is it just different behaviours on different units. I will try to contact the manufacturer and see if I can get a response.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 03:45:37 pm
content: Again after all this I would hope to see a mod be developed , not enough knowledge on my end , but have a new MS5308 .

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 05:31:35 pm
content: Does anyone have newer revision on MS5308 main meter PCB, time stamp 2011-05 ( or something ).IET was on rev.5 in 2011. That explains something to.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 07:43:52 pm
content: I got mine through ebay a couple months ago , from China , I opened mine to check if the neg. wire was moved from the through-hole over to the SMD cap , and it was .I did not check / or remember the board vs. but will check when I get a chance , will try to post tomorrow .

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 08:03:47 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on January 23, 2013, 02:38:20 pmAs I wrote previously:Do not use the original power adapter that came with the MS5308. This will possibly fry (or damage) your MS5308. Use the meter on battery power until further notice from the manufacturer. A set of AA batteries should last for a month of heavy use. Any other (linear) low ripple 12V power supply may be OK, but we dont know for sure yet

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 08:04:42 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on January 23, 2013, 03:45:37 pmAre you thinking about modding the AC power supply?

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 08:07:44 pm
content: Quote from: nixxon on January 23, 2013, 08:04:42 pmNo I was looking to see if anyone was working on a mod , not sure myself if the mod needs to be in the meter / or another power supply ?

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 08:08:12 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on January 23, 2013, 07:43:52 pmAre you thinking about the "R16"resistor? User "gfx2006" on Youtube comments to the jwrelectro MS5308 review video that "I measured mine and it's zero resistance between R16 and GND". That is pretty low resistance and probably just as good as soldering the wire to "GND". No mod needed here.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2013, 08:47:09 pm
content: Quote from: nixxon on January 23, 2013, 08:08:12 pmI am not sure yet , with what seems to be a couple of related themes in the last few pages , of when using the external PS and the resistance changing / being off ?And the supplied external PS damaging the meter , so only use the batteries ?Would to avoid both issues , weather they are related or not ?

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 10:24:31 am
content: I received my MS5308 yesterday.The black neg. wire was soldered directly to "GND". The wire is barely reaching the "GND" solder point, though. The tension of the wire is like a guitar string. They must have soldered the connection before mounting the small power supply PCB.Resistance between bottom side of "R16" and "GND" is measured to 0.0 ohms in relative mode (Fluke 83 V).Resistance between top side of "R16" and "GND" is likewise measured to 287 ohms.PCB is labeled "MS5308A(2011.05.06)"

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 01:10:40 pm
content: Those 2 contacts look way too close to me for direct soldering. I guess that's why some other units (not sure if it was earlier ones or later ones) they decided to solder the ground wire to R16. They should have used a proper connector to begin with though.Anyway, I've also got news about the power adapter issue directly from the manufacturer (through their sales team). They even showed me what looks like an internal report on the issues (written in Chinese).To summarize:1. They are aware of the issues through reports from their customers.2. Besides the incorrect reading on resistance measurement as shown in John's video review, the power adapter could also potentially fry an IC (they didn't mention which one) and stop the meter from switching on.3. They acknowledge that it's a design flaw in the power adapter that causes excessive ripples, which leads to the above mentioned problems.4. The meter functions correctly and within specs otherwise (when on battery power).5. There's no fix at the moment apart from advising their customers against using the power adapter. For customers with a fried IC they will offer a replacement one with instructions and assistance on how to replace it. The power adapter will no longer be packaged with the meter from now on.6. They will be working on a redesign and modification in the documentation.7. After that they will modify all the units that still haven't left the factory.As a wholesale customer of theirs I will not get any form of compensation apart from some replacement parts if I need them. It sucks. I won't hide it. I received the MS5308's early last week but had been waiting for these official words before I feel comfortable selling, and I must say I'm quite disappointed myself. I guess if I really wanted to pursue it further I could but I don't think I'm going to as I believe the meter is still a good value otherwise, plus I don't really want to ruin the working relationship with Mastech.Now that their position is clear I will start selling them soon, although I will most likely sell at a slightly lower price than I initially hoped for, and with clear warning to any potential buyer too.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 03:13:02 pm
content: Good to hear some details from them .Seems to confirm that the issue is with the PS only " excessive ripples " .Not being into electrical design , just hobby , wouldn't using a filter cap added to the PS solve this ?Besides just using a good , maybe laptop supply - reduced to the correct voltage ?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 03:51:08 pm
content: Not ripple on the voltage, but too much HF noise riding on top of a mains frequency waveform injected into the power rails. Basically they need a power supply with a grounded secondary side.

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 05:02:01 pm
content: It should not be a big deal to find another 12V DC power supply from some old equipment. I will check the output quality first, of course. If it is a linear type, there should not be high frequency noise anyhow.Even so, I will check out if a .47 uF X2 capacitor I found will reduce the noise from the Mastech power supply...

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 05:23:28 pm
content: I have a Mastech meter (from summer 2012) , so i'm prob affected by the problem PSU.Now i have several 12v wall-wart switchers and also an old 12v ironcore wall-wart.My question is ...How close to the 12v do i need to be ?As in how well regulated/clean does the DC need to be ?The Iron-core prob puts out 12+ volts ?Is there a regulator inside the meter ?Or does the supplied 12v need to be 100% clean , i have some LM340-12 in TO220.But would like to avoid an "external" box if possibleHow many mA does it need to deliver ?TIABingo.

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2013, 07:48:43 pm
content: It draws ~15 mA w/o backlight, according to the review video.With backlight, it was ~30 mV IIRC.EDIT: I don't know the current draw with the backlight on.I have read that 9 volts is the absolute minimum for the meter to operate.BTW: The meter can handle a 75 cm drop from a table down onto a ceramic-like tiled floor. It makes a horrific sound as the unit hits the floor, though.

author: tcdrennen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 07, 2013, 01:25:35 am
content: Hey people, just joined the forum.We're very interested in the MasTech RCL meter - we can live with and/or fix the power problembut our requirements are that the meter will have to be on our calibration schedule.Has anyone looked into calibration requirements for this meter? Is there a service guide/manual? Is there a stated calibration interval?We're an EMS and have plenty of PM3504 and QuadTech LCRs but they're a bit pricey; this would be a perfect IQC solution for some coils we need to screen at receiving, but we';; need calibration.We may buy a couple for in house use anyway - I will get back to you ASAP on that.Nice forum - 'll be poking around a bit

author: helion
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 13, 2013, 08:04:35 pm
content: review on Youtube might help you I guess.

author: nixxon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:26:46 pm
content: That video is nice, but I don't recall anything regarding instrument calibration, other than the recessed button calibration open/short auto stuff.These guys claim to have the know-how, though:http://www.microprecision.com/instrument/MASTECH-MS5308.html

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: nixxon on February 15, 2013, 09:26:46 pmThat appears to be one of those places that will claim to be an expert on calibrating anything you can google. Not saying they are not reputable but you get a canned capability statement on just about any instrument. Ask for a quote and see what you get. I can almost guarantee it will be a multiple of the price of the MS5308.

author: tcdrennen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 12:11:42 am
content: Thanks for the updates - our local cal lab says they can calbrate it for us, so we should be good to goI've ordered one for our department and have recommended it to our vendor so they can pre-screen the coils.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 07:17:43 am
content: Let us hear the outcome of the calibration. They dan not adjust s as far as I know so they can only give you a certificate that tells how much it is off. They only eed detailed specs for that, and without those thy can not verify it but only tell you the deviation towards a tracable standard. Over a year after the second calibration you know if it was a good choise. If it is still the same amount off you are lucky, if it has drifted a lot you have to go back in time and check if customers could ave problems because your meter went wrong.Do not use the powersupply, it kills this piece off junk. For a company I would have bought the IET e-5000, it can be bought calibrated ( IET or NIST) and you have the pricediverence payed back within a year because it can be used on a external powersupply or a 9 V battery instead of a bunch of batteries to get 12V ( it does not run on 9V allthough people say it uses the same chipset, it also has a lower accuracy as the IET)

author: tcdrennen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 08:20:27 am
content: Thanks for the headship; I'll look at the IET first - though the video was pretty good on the MasTech.I was aware of the power brick issue - we do have a box of wall warts that I was thinking of using (12V, 9V, 5V; collected over the years in the dept from various projects.)The advice is much appreciated - we may get the 5308 just to see how it holds up, but i will check the IET unit.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 08:33:08 am
content: Got mine yesterday, and broke the power supply open to get the cable out. will use it for something else after attaching a 3 pin IEC socket and earthing the secondary ( that is the problem, interwinding capacitance leads to switching hash on the output, and it has no isolation barrier capacitor to reduce it or a interwinding shield) along with a small LC filter as well, all in a larger case ( old one did not survive the opening with gentle persuasion using a claw hammer).Took it and ran it using a power supply and a 7812 to regulate the voltage ( 7812 will be in the new power brick when I assemble it, epoxy is busy curing that holds the transformer down at the moment). It works well using the external power.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 12:19:53 pm
content: SeanB,Thanks for this. I have not used my unit on an external power supply yet. The provided unit will be going in my 'spare parts only' bin. I have some decent AOR linear 1A power supplies that use a quality regulator circuit (V set and I limit adjustable). I will use one of those if needed.Fraser

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 12:46:51 pm
content: Guys,DO NOT USE THE POWER ADAPTERthat comes with the unit! I just had one buyer report to me that his unit failed after using it a few times

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 01:16:43 pm
content: I don't understand... Is the power adapter broken or the meter don't accept any power adapter?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 01:24:02 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on February 17, 2013, 01:16:43 pmThe power adapter that comes with the MS5308 is faulty. Mastech knows it and they will not be supplying the adapter in their newer units. A proper 12V DC power supply would do the job fine though.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 02:04:42 pm
content: The power adaptor that comes with the unit is a OHL unit with no interwinding shield, thus this places switching transients on the supply it puts out. This then is transferred to the meter and if there is a large capacitance from the meter to ground this blows the input circuitry by exceeding the common mode range of the unit ( 30V absolute max peak).If mister designer had put the class Y capacitor across the isolation barrier and added an interwinding shield winding then this would be a non issue, even with a 2 pin supply. A 3 pin supply with the output grounded would have been better though.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 03:46:14 pm
content: Incredible, it's possible to fail even in a ac-dc wall adapter.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 03:57:14 pm
content: OK, I am going to show my ignorance hereIn my working life I see many SMPSU blocks that have "ITE Use only" printed on them. This means 'Information Technology Use Only'. I took this to indicate that the output is noisy and not suitable for sensitive equipment like audio kit etc. However, computers don't like noisy power supplies either. With EMC rules it is also important to design low noise power supplies so my theory looks to be wrong ?Can anyone enlighten me as to the true reason for "ITE Use only" on SMPSU blocks ?Fraser

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 04:02:16 pm
content: I believe there are specific EMI/EMC requirements for ITE equipment. The power supply may be designed only to meet the ITE limits.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 05:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on February 17, 2013, 03:57:14 pmnot medical, for example.

author: willb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2013, 06:10:20 pm
content: What about using an unregulated, wall-wart type DC supply? The ones with nothing more than a transformer, bridge and cap. No noisy SMPS crap. I have a stack of 12VDC 500mA Yamaha branded that I have no use for.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2013, 06:17:17 pm
content: Needs to be regulated, 12V maximum. The onboard regulators will fry at any voltage above 12V, so only use one that has an unloaded output voltage of under 12V.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2013, 07:47:29 am
content: Anyone know the pinout of the fixture connector on these MS5308s? Are the voltage (pot) sense leads on the top or bottom of the + and - blades (relative to the unit being upright)edit.... to add voltage sense.

author: tcdrennen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 29, 2013, 03:42:32 pm
content: Hi folks-Just to update, we ended up getting the IET Labs DE-5000 and are very happy with it.Our immediate need was for a meter to screen several thousand large coils that we found open or high ESR after installing.The meter was quick to set up for sorting and easy to use; much more cost effective and more robust Kelvin probe tweezers than the old Fluke meters we had been borrowing.Highly recommended.As I understand the MasTech meter is essentially the same circuitry, it should be adequate as well - but the reports of problems (especially re: the AC adapter) led us to go with IET instead.Thanks for all your info and reports - much appreciated.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 04:58:17 am
content: I have a sad, sad story.......I'm thinking of making a custom fixture PCB, which is why I asked about the pinout. When I didn't get any replies I started poking around to figure out what the pinout is. The DUT+ blade had very high resistance between the two sides, but the DUT- blade appeared to be shorted from one side to the other. I couldn't figure any reason why that would be, so I took the cover off and this is what I found....and here is the bad one...That solder splash shorted the blades and defeated the kelvin connection, but you would never know it unless you took the thing apart or measured the resistance between the sides of the blade. Jacked!I already fixed it, but well... one more strike for these guys.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 05:45:38 am
content: Good news you found it ! It's ALWAYS a painful decision with me, when I buy stuff - do I pull it apart and find these horrors.When I do, I ALWAYS find faults like that - poor soldering is #1, dangerously long tails is #2. If we want cheap(ish), we'll have toput up with it. I'm sure you've seen some of the S/Mode power adapters posted here ! Enough to put you off your food :-)

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 06:06:57 am
content: It looks like R28 is not soldered at the left side. But most soldering looks like the kid who soldered this was, not very experienced yet.I think you can now conclude they have no single form of calibration, quality control or even operational test in production, they juist build and box them in the hope they are allright.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 06:59:47 am
content: Mastech is the main competitor to UNI-T, with a vast array of meters on offer by both companies. They mostly compete at the low end of the market, where pressure on price is very high, so every cent saved counts.As we have seen with the latest bunch of reviews of the Mastech products, the company seems to take too many shortcuts, rushing stuff out the door, with dodgy PCB soldering and hardly any quality control. C.E.M has fallen into the same trap, with the meters delivered to Extech.In my experience, UNI-T has improved vastly in that respect, perhaps learning from their cooperation with Fluke. It is now rare to find a UNI-T meter with design flaws or bad workmanship during assembly. Of course, input protection is not very high on their priority list yet, as HRC fuses can add a disproportionate amount to the final product price. I don't think that will change, unless the majority of customers start paying more attention to meter safety.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:12:08 am
content: LONG TIME AFTER DEFECTIVE METER.I now got the new MS5308 after 3 month !!!!!??Aidetec_US , never accepted any returns untill they got some confirmation from mastech,The good part from mastech is that i got a MS8910 for free (this small SMD tester that dosent have on/off button) happy with that.Problem is " Aidetec_us " Never paid back Promised returncost that for shure mastech already did pay Aidetec_us. Also return pakage was real bad without displayprotection or easely say without ANY protection then original bag. (original inside was much better protected).Thats explains something.It was a A.DOA , Allmost Dead on Arrival problem.Dont want to burn aidetec_us BUT they just aint good in take care of deals and custumers.Simply sell and forget.Feel sorry for US people, if they make it more easy to burn people over there ?Out of topic.Asked 3 times witch firmware was installed in Owon sds7102 and how does it work with upgrade. = No answer.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 07:14:21 am
content: just this : DOA = "Dead On Arrival"good luck.

author: mrubbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2013, 11:41:49 pm
content: Thanks, yes its still working. I must have good luck, at least with that point.Did miss it when it was sent away.I Like the big display and low price. For normal electronic repairwork i dont think people need better.Just have a bad feeling that i shoud buy more bullet proof tool from the start. ( this dident even take some salt and pepper )...No info about, upgrade the underlimited placed regulaters on pcb.I dont know what they didHave to check some day. Still warranty !

author: micro88
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2013, 05:50:28 am
content: Just to share my experience with aidetek_us.I too ordered my meter from aidetek_us. I received it in good condition. Was fortunate to read the various threads related to the power supply issue. Aidetek_us were quite good in the initial communication before purchase. They sent me a warning mail regarding the adapter issue but confirmed that it is safe to use eight batteries. However I wrote back saying that people are having problems with batteries too.After that they have stopped replying to my mails. So it looks like a case of Sell and Forget.I made my own adapter using LM317 and adjusted it to around 8.6V. It seems to work ok till now though it shows the battery symbol.

author: dane
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 16, 2013, 09:25:40 pm
content: hello everyone...I have one question about mastech ms5308:can I measure capacity and ESR when the elements are on board or I must desolder them before measuring?i'm very sorry for my bad english..thank you very much for answering!greetings from croatia

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2013, 09:34:47 pm
content: I presume that yes it can do the measurment in circuit.that is because it uses the same cyrustek chipset inside for measurment than the DerEE De5000 I own.search this forum for "DerEE" lcr meter and you will find infos about italso the fact that it is sold some $100 shipped by japanese ebay sellersand also it doesnt have the power supply problems the mastech has...

author: dane
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 03:48:58 pm
content: thank you very much!!

author: split
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 21, 2014, 05:59:25 pm
content: What ever became of the power adapter issue on the MS5308?Have they redesigned the Adpater and or main board?THose that have the MS5308, would you recommend it? The other meter I have been looking at is the Appletek AT825.What I like in the MS5308:1. Large display2. Decent accuracy (I mainly measure SMT devices, and mainly small caps: 5pf to .1uf)3. Included SMD tweezers4. 100KHzIssues with the MS53081. AC adapter/Main board power issue2. No impedance or reactanceThe AT825:1. Similar Accuracy2. Impedance and Reactance3. Touch screen, but purported to be little valueIssues with the AT8251. Only 10Khz2. No SMD tweezers3. Smaller display, but more info on it.4. dramatic increase in internal component countIf they were priced the same, which would you get and why?Also, is there a better alternative to these two?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2014, 06:11:40 pm
content: I own the Mastech unit and have no issues with it. BUT if I was looking for an LCR meter now, I would be tempted by the excellent price of the Japan sourced DE5000. I would get the whole kit with tweezers etc though. The DE5000 is the same chipset and functions as the Mastech but in a more compact form factor.Aurora

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2014, 10:43:15 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 21, 2014, 06:11:40 pmSame here , like the 5308 , but would consider the 5000 , funds keep me from having both .

author: ozwolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2014, 11:12:00 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 21, 2014, 06:11:40 pmI've been wanting an LCR Meter (since watching Dave use his on an LCD repair video), and I've taken the plunge and just bought the DE5000 (from Japan) on eBay. By my way of thinking, it only has to help me repair one monitor, TV, DVR, microwave or anything and it will have paid for itself. Should be here (Queensland Australia) in a couple of weeks.

author: split
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 03:20:49 am
content: The DE-5000 and MS5308 seem to be functionally identical...same chipset, seemingly the same specs.The MS5308:Larger displayRequires 8 AA & 1 9V batterySupplied with all the Attachments, AC adapter and USBreleased: 2012?DE-5000Smaller form factor,one 9V batteryEverything is optionalLower pricedrelease: 2011?How is it that the MS5308 requires so many batteries when both meters should consume the same power?Apparently the DE-5000 is now discontinued:http://www.ietlabs.com/de6000-lcr-meter.html

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 11:54:32 am
content: I might have to buy a 5000 , since it is discontinued and the 600 is over 3 time as much , will have to check the spec. I do thing there is 3 times better ?

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 07:33:01 pm
content: This story about the MS5308 needing all sorts of batteries keeps surfacing -IT DOES NOT.The MS5308 ONLY uses 8 AA cells (my two-year old instrument is still on the original set). True, the case moulding supports a small flat "6F22" 9V battery, but there are no connections to it; this is only used when the case houses a different type of instrument (a precision current/voltage source, I believe).Current draw from the battery is 20mA, 25mA with the backlight on. The unit times out after a few mins, so battery life of those AA's is going to be good. Though if it were powered by the MUCH smaller 9V flat battery, 15-25mA would see one of those off in just a few hours. This then, really puts in perspective the problem with the mains power supply. Yes, it is a P.o.S, but I've never even needed to bother with it. MAYBE if you were measuring components on a production line for hours a day, you would need a mains supply, but then in a professional production environment, you probably wouldn't be using budget Mastech equipment.Would anyone recomend the MS5308? Well that, of course, depends entirely on what you need it for. For me, it works fine, but the massive form factor is (to MY mind, maybe not yours?) overkill. Other manufacturers have meters with the same chipset that have proved you can get the same functionality in a MUCH smaller form factor. This MS5308 is a bench hog. As a paperweight, it's brilliant.

author: e_sousa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2014, 04:16:08 pm
content: I have been looking around for this meter, and found a vendor stating he has the "September 2013 version" and the mastech letters on the meter front are red instead of white on the others i have seen.Does anyone know anything about this newer version?Also, hello eevblog, first post here.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 06:55:14 am
content: Update & bumping an old thread, just thought its relevant for MS5308.Source ->Voltage reference adjustmentQuote from: mwb928 on May 15, 2018, 10:20:56 amThanks to mwb928.Attached the photo where its located.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 10:07:20 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on February 09, 2012, 10:19:57 pmPerhaps you didn't know, the 4210 *does* measure ESR... just press the "R" button...

author: davebb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2022, 11:18:15 am
content: Hi I know this is an old list/post,i have just got my self one of these from amazon uk,can anyone please tell me what size plug i need for the external DC in,Thanks Dave