Resources for manufacturing in China - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: robotix3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2017, 06:50:00 pm
content: We are talking to a contractor in China to set up manufacturing for a new product we are doing and I am trying to learn everything I can about the process. I am having a hard time finding information on manufacturing low-cost consumer products in the 20KU to 100KU range.Can someone point me to a site/youtube/blog/book that goes into the gritty details?EDIT: I don't need the basics, I mostly want to know experiences, what not to do, etc.

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2017, 08:27:30 pm
content: I am also interested.I tried to find a place to manufacture 10K pcs, went to China, met with a couple of "factories", and decided not to go for it. It was about 10 years ago. It seemed to be back then that 10K pcs is just not enough to have any serious place interested. And those who got interested did not convince me in their ability to ensure any quality. It would be interesting to learn about other people's experience.

author: robotix3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 02:07:47 pm
content: Well if no one has any resources, does anyone want to share some advice?

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 02:29:17 pm
content: You pretty much need to have a trusted person on the ground who understands your product enough to test and sort out any potential issues, or order things in little-risk batches. Which is still true if you work with a local manufacturer of course, just it's easier to have the boots on the ground

author: Farley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2017, 01:42:03 am
content: The book "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler was interesting. It came out around 2008/2009 so I don't know if the issues he faced are still relevant.

author: richardlawson1489
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2017, 05:29:07 am
content: Which product are you guys talking about? Is it Electric circuit board? Here are some of the factors which may affect the cost of the manufacturing.http://www.technotronix.us/pcbblog/what-are-the-factors-determine-the-cost-of-a-pcb-fabrication-and-assembly/

author: aholtzma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2017, 02:54:20 pm
content: There is Bunnie Huang's book on getting stuff made in Shenzhen:https://www.adafruit.com/product/3189

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2017, 03:24:16 pm
content: Make your specification watertightIn my experience Chinese contractors tend to do what they think best if they are uncertain about something. So if you don't specify something exactly rather than ask you they will just interpret their way. Due to the culture of trying to save money their solution may often not be to your liking as they invariably choose the cheapest solution.

author: robotix3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2017, 08:41:32 pm
content: Thanks for the info guys, will check those out.QuoteIt's a toy, so plastics, PCBAs, microcontrollers, etc.

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2017, 04:18:43 am
content: Quote from: robotix3 on January 14, 2017, 08:41:32 pmSo toys is a whole other world again from your typical "electronic gadget" as usually the drive to reduce cost is extreme for the maker to keep any margin after the Toys'r'us take their cut.A typical Chinese toy factory is injection molding + painting + assembly. They don't tend to have any knowledge of electronics whatsoever but just buy in modules for "5-function R/C control" and completed motor+gear assemblies. The factories making those may be in the same town or the town over, just be aware that if you're dealing with a regular toy factory they won't likely be able to do any kind of trouble-shooting beyond "it doesn't work".If you can afford to give a bit more margin to the factory you might be able to go to a more regular "electronics gadget" factory, but even there they don't usually have any electronic engineers on staff (unless you're talking about the likes of Flextronics / Foxconn but those CMs are not cheap to deal with). Your PCBM and PCBA will always be done in specialised factories (sometimes those can be combined), so no matter what you will be dealing with more than one factory. You can imagine that if you don't have a good insight into how your manufacturing is actually getting done this would be very frustrating."The Essential Guide to Electronics in Shenzhen" won't be much use to you beyond how to get a taxi into town (it's more about "how to I ask this shop owner for a resistor" than "how do I pick a reliable factory" but Bunnie's more recent book:https://www.nostarch.com/hardwarehackermight be interesting as it contains some of his experiences getting different projects made.If you decide to pop over to Shenzhen (I'd recommend that) send me a PM and I'll introduce you to some of the people in the English-speaking ecosystem here.

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2017, 06:22:44 am
content: Quote from: janekm on January 15, 2017, 04:18:43 amSo do they have some on-stop places, that can handle the entire process - plastics, pcba, purchasing components, quality control, packing etc? Just wondering... If i would like to manufacture 10K pcs of something, is it really possible without going to Shenzhen and running between factories ? And how much would that kind of service cost?Actually it would be interesting to know, how much would it cost to manufacture 10K pcs of some small gadgets with the bill of materials, say, $25, including plastic parts, pack them and send to US. Like what would out of the door price be?

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2017, 06:53:55 am
content: Quote from: dimbmw on January 15, 2017, 06:22:44 amThere are one-stop places, sort of, like PCH. But note that as an example when Bunnie was in charge of getting the Chumby made (quite a few years ago now), he used the services of PCH in the end but was still needed on the ground to communicate the design intent to the people involved in making it happen. It's pretty hard to get around that, as there's a lot of decisions that have to be made in manufacturing something and trying to do it by email is not very efficient. But if the project is fairly "standard" (normal PCBA in a simple plastic enclosure, no need for perfect appearance) it can be done.It's pretty impossible to give an idea of how much it would cost to produce 10k units of something with a US BOM cost of $25, as the usual process involves trying to figure out what of that $25 figure can be cut down. Which means trying to identify every component that can be replaced with a Chinese-made one, as when you're making 10k units of something it's probably not happening in a bonded facility and import duties are due on every imported component. Typically connectors can be replaced with Chinese-made ones at a fraction of the cost, for example. Which are usually fine, but if you're buying Molex you're paying for fine every time.Also almost every service / component exists at a range of price points. At the higher price points, you'll get excellent service and a near-guarantee of non-screw-up. At the lower price points you have to be careful to communicate what's essential and expect a certain risk of failure. For example a few years ago I had a plastic enclosure mold made by Star Prototype, who have a British managing director, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them as they'll work hard to make sure they understand the requirements and get it right first time, but the cost will be several times that of the lowest bidder.Usually the process goes the other way... you have a target cost and the aim is to figure out how to meet that

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2017, 12:32:33 pm
content: I am wondering if the incoming Trump administration is making anyone uneasy about starting new projects like the OP is talking about at the current moment. Comments?A newbie manufacturing in China for the first time:https://www.eeweb.com/spotlight/interview-with-jeri-ellsworthWhat is the hardest/trickiest bug you have ever fixed?I was the only chip designer on four month SoC design. I wrote the spec, made the FPGA devboards, wrote all the RTL, simulations and worked with the backend guys. I got so behind that we had to do the 250k run of chips as a hotlot with no samples.The parts were shipped to China for immediate assembly in the product. I got a call from my client saying the chips didn’t work and that I was getting on the next available flight to Hong Kong.After getting to Hong Kong I opened one of the units to find that they had cost reduced my reference design without telling me. No decoupling capacitors!

author: technotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2017, 06:16:32 am
content: I don't have much experience with the manufacturer in china. Why you only looking Why should you only going with china pcb manufacturer