Vision Engineering TS4 vs Mantis Elite - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 10:36:21 am
content: Edit: Since there have been no replies and VE does not share insight either, I am going to give you my opinion on the older Dynascope and Mantis Elite. There will be pictures and a write-up of my findings.Old post for reference:Dear all,I am looking into upgrading my »lab« with a stereo microscope.The used market here in Germany has several options to offer and I am trying to narrow the field a little. Can you tell me what the differences / pros and cons of these models are?TS-3 (out of production, replaced by the Lynx model)Mantis CompactMantis Elite old square versionMantis Elite newer rounded versionGiven that there are all these different models, which one should I get?The old Mantis Elite and the newer Compact are offered at a comparable price at around 500 - 800€.The TS-3 and newer Mantis Elite are offered at a comparable price at around 800 - 1200€.I want to stay below 1000€ though.POI is board repair / micro soldering, retrofitting a digital camera might be an interesting option but is not really necessary.Love to hear your opinions and recommendations, also in regard to the optics. I was thinking 4x, but any advice is very welcomeKind regards,Frederik

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 11:14:48 am
content: Oops. Seems like I sniped a new version Mantis Elite 3D for a decent price on eBay just seconds ago. Would never have thought to just get it for the amount offered xDHowever, I am still interested in getting some opinions on the original post since I am going to get another microscope for our school lab.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2018, 11:00:52 am
content: Since there is very little information on the web and VE does not seem to care about supplying detailed information on any of their gear, I am going to use this thread to share some of my findings.As of right now I have a used Mantis Elite with 4x and 15x optics with the universal stand and a mint TS4 Dynascope, 0.7x lens (4.2x - 42x zoom), 30° oblique viewing attachment, 250W halogen fiber optics illumination and stand assembly with stage pack (x-y sliding table) for side to side comparison sitting on my desk.Overall, I like the Mantis Elite a lot. The projected viewing image is huge. 3D image works very well and the illumination is super homogeneous, paired with a very crisp image that is very much superior to the TS4.The TS4 has a smaller viewing image and it is a lot less potent in terms of light efficacy. After all, there is a lot more lenses and mirrors the image has to travel through and the objective lenses are much smaller than on the Mantis. However, being able to freely zoom into the parts you are working on has its benefits.One thing I am really looking forward to is retrofitting the TS4 with a high quality camera. On the left side there is a port hole and a sliding lever to switch from direct viewing to the camera. Internally, an arrangement of mirrors is moved on a linear slide, that lets you select either directing the view to the viewing pane or to the camera port.My short summary is this:Get a Mantis Elite (or Compact) with 4x magnification for soldering work. I like the 4x - 15x combo for close up inspection, however the 15x is quite expensive if it does not come as a "freebie" with the device and you will not be able to use it for soldering because of the short focusing distance, short working distance and too big magnification. As Dave already stated on several occasions, 4x and 8x should make a good combo. The 6x SLWD lens looks like a nice piece of kit, but the price tag of over 1.500€ does not justify it for me.My guess is, that the Lynx is much closer (or even superior) to the Mantis in terms of picture quality, FOV and overall performance, but then again it is seriously more expensive.The TS4 looks much more professional in regard to the build quality. Higher grade plastics and a lot of metal is used here, compared to the cheapish appearance of the Mantis. The enclosure of the latter is made from shitty ABS that gets brittle after a short time and yellows quickly - just like those historic PC cases back in the 80s/90s - just absurd for that kind of professional equipment!I would have loved to see the Mantis head made from cast aluminium like the universal stand. At the very least VE should use higher grade plastics.I am going to post some detail pictures in the next time.Kind regards,Frederik

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2018, 07:28:41 pm
content: Some small update on the LED conversion:I bought a variety of chunky heat sinks and ordered Nichia High CRI COB LEDs, together with some reflectors.Nichia NFCWL060B-V2 COB-LED 5000K, R95Conversion of the stock power supply should be doable, right now it puts out something like 15 to 24 volts (dimmer) and a lot of amps, Nichia LED needs 35 VDC @ 0.46 A.24 V 250 W projector lamp puts out 800 lumen, warm white 3000 - 3500 K, Ra 100Nichia LED puts out about 1830 lumen @ 460 mA, neutral white 5000 K, Ra 98With the right thermomanagement there is also quite some headroom for pulsing the LED, light output should be plenty already thoughSomething of interest for the Mantis VS Dynascope section:There is little to no 3D image on the Dynascope compared to what you see on the Mantis, mainly because the object lenses are small and very close together. However, the overall area of head movement is quite a bit bigger on the TS-4 than on the Mantis.Lighting is pretty different also: On the Mantis it is uniform and almost glare free, because the axis of illumination is at least 20° offset to the left and right from the viewing axis. On the TS-4, the offset is close to 10° and not as uniform as on the Mantis. Surface reflection can be an issue. Because of the different technology of halide lamp vs. LED array, the comparison for uniformity in brightness is not a fair one though and I am really looking forward to testing with the COB replacement.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2018, 08:41:43 pm
content: Thanks for your review. How useful is the oblique view control on the Dynascope? Can it be used to view underneath SMD chips?

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2018, 10:19:17 pm
content: Quote from: helius on May 05, 2018, 08:41:43 pmNo, not underneath, but you can inspect solder joints from an angled view and do a 360° sweep all around the part.Here is some footage from a TS-3 (don’t actually know if there is a difference between the TS-3 and 4 model):So while you can not inspect BGAs from a side view unless you additionally tilt the PCB, getting some different angles really helps for inspection.Downside is, that you need even more light when using the mirror attachment. I guess that is why when ordering the version with the oblique viewing attachment, it was bundled with the big 250 W illumination unit.Edit: That is not my video, I plan on doing some micro soldering when I eventually get hold of a matching camera adapter.Also, the guy in the video seems to have done an LED upgrade too!I might be mistaken on the part of what the original halide bulb is delivering. Founda linkthat calls for 2200 lm - what seems more plausible to me than the 800 lm that where stated elsewhere. So 1830 lm from the Nichia might actually be on the lower end of what is preferred, but we’ll see.

author: lukego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2020, 10:03:55 am
content: Thank you for posting this review. I'm keen to own a Vision Engineering microscope one day and this really helps to prepare me for being ready to quickly identify the right deal on eBay.