UK/EU Mains Voltage Harmonisation Mains Voltage Concerns  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: SpannerHands
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 06:02:09 pm
content: Hi people Spannerhands here from Wales in the UK!Finally decided to take the plunge and post something rather than just read you lovely forum…I have 2 questions, or lack of understanding… So please be gentle…I had a problem when I first moved into my new home last year, the mains power was high! I have an APC3000 UPS which can log incommoding line voltage and it was ranging between 251 volts & 256 volts. (Supposed to be 230 volts +10% - 6%)Contacted Weston power destitution (electricity distribution network operator) and to their credit they came out the same day left a measuring device and a week later picked it up, then mouth after that I received a notice of intended power disconnection for maintenance (well the whole area received this), so I thought job done…So my mains voltage has now technically been within spec of 230 volts +10% - 6% (i.e. between 216.2 volts and 253 volts) for the last year, however; it’s still always above 247 volts and every so often can wander up to a maximum of 252 volts according to my log… So it’s on the high side of the spec.Now sorry for all that boring background and here are the questions…Since UK/EU Mains Voltage Harmonisation people can now sell electronics originally designed for the European 220v network because “technically” Europe had the same voltage as the UK 230 volts +10% - 6%...What do you think about that?Is this going to shorten the life of all my electrical gadgets? I have had quite a few things brake on me, granted it gives me an opportunity to repair, but it’s getting more frequent? And no joke the last few things I bought from eBay died the second they turned on… Which is making me panic about buying expensive used test equipment as it may get killed the second I try and power it on…Am I being paranoid or is there something I can do?ThanksSpannerHands

author: cpt.charlie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 10:18:26 pm
content: Most devices have an input range up to 240V, in my opinion there is a safety margin, something like 250-260V.

author: denelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 11:25:13 pm
content: I don't think your electronic gadgets will suffer.In the US and Canada, the voltage can be as high as 127/254V with no ill effect.But a higher voltage will make your light bulbs brighter and more efficient but they will also burn faster.http://www.donsbulbs.com/bulbs/g623/l/e/syl.lamp.rule.pattern.gif

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 12:21:48 am
content: Kudos to you for reporting the overvoltage.Well if it is within 216-253 volts it is in spec and there isn't much you can do anyway.All the mains electrical equipment you buy should now be designed for this.Though as you pointed out I would avoid stuff originally rated for 220v. It might not be ok with 253volts rms.I remember Dave in one of his teardown videos fried some device probably just due to it being designed for 220v only. It had a linear style psu, to give 5v DC for the display.If you think the voltage is too high you could turn you heater on to max. That might bring it down a volt or two.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 01:09:42 am
content: Are large industries going out of business in your area? I wonder why the mains voltage was high then you reported it and it was "fixed" but then it is creeping up again.Clearly, they can adjust the distribution system by tapping transformers in a different place, etc. But it seems strange that they would need to repeatedly tap it DOWN.I hadn't realized that they "harmonized UK 240V with EU 220V by simply defining the "standard" as 230V. I guess it at least looks "harmonious" on paper. There's Government for you.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 07:38:19 am
content: Are you in a rural area and near the transformer or dose a neighbour have a solar panel array either of these could be the cause. About 3 mile from is a large grain silo and dryer, come harvest time when they turn on the dryers the volts drop by ten despite the drying plant having its own transformer and when I did some work on the site and tried to weld while the dryer was in operation it was nigh on impossible due to the constant cycling of the heating elements and fans etc get the welder set and start welding and then the voltage would rise or fall by such a large amount I needed to reset the welder, just one of the joys of rural living not that I want to live in a city.

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 08:40:23 am
content: Any equipment that you are worried about using you could always operate via a line voltage regulator, you could set this to output a constant 230V. We use an old General Radio 1592 Automatic Variac on some of our kit, it's due to die soon but has done very well so far!

author: SpannerHands
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 10:03:06 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 19, 2014, 01:09:42 amI have 2000W of servers running 24/7 that making no difference LOLWith you regards to the "harmonious" on paper Government

author: SpannerHands
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 10:09:29 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on June 19, 2014, 07:38:19 amI live in semi rural area... thankfully not having issues like you had, that sounds like a right pain the the ass...The transformer is about 10m from my back garden, the fiscal connection to my house is off a 150m runThere has been allot of heavy industry leave the area over the last 2 years, but that's probably 3 - miles away... So you may be onto something...

author: SpannerHands
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 10:17:57 am
content: Thanks for your posts, I think a couple of you have hit upon the 220V issue with there pointless UK/EU standards...Pulled the cheap soldering station apart (was going to me used as a hot knife) that blow up... Its states 240V on the outside but inside the transformer is 220V... with 26 & 10 volt outputs, which are reading 30v & 14v actual when powered via the mains, so it over powered the 10v input casing the fail...

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 10:29:39 am
content: Many(most?) of the 220V countries were 220V +/- 6% so some old 220V equipment maxes out at 233V (some were 10% maxing out at 242V). New equipment should be designed for 230V +/-10% (207-253V) so should work in former 240V countries which are now 230V +10% -6% and former 220V countries which are now 230V +6% -10%. Importantly the voltages of existing installations were not and will not be changed.*Tungsten lamps are still manufactured in 10V increments because otherwise they perform badly (low effieciency or short life).*Many heavily loaded transformers in UK cities were already on the 250V tap or in some cases higher giving no-load voltages >260V but barely scraping the old 240V -6% lower limit at the end of the cable most of the time. These are the installations that tend to give out-f-tolerance high voltages at 4am.

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 10:31:22 am
content: Hi, we live in Lincolnshire and also get a mains voltage of over 250V. In many years this hasn't caused any problems. Did notice when it did drop to 230V because we use night storage heaters, and they didn't get warm.Other possibilities are the mains filter caps, Rifa etc, they are awful and blow up with monotonous regularity, see the vintage-radio forum.Other problem now starting is electric cars. When recharging they take immense amounts of power, normally over a network that was never designed for it. More an urban thing possibly, but as the range improves they will appear in the country, we could use one other than the silly cost.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 11:06:05 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 19, 2014, 01:09:42 amSolar and wind generation gradually increase voltage on the LV side of the grid. Ongoing problem.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 11:16:36 am
content: But aren't they supposed to cut out at just below the maximum voltage?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 11:55:59 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on June 19, 2014, 11:16:36 amYes, but they can't know what they're doing to the voltage upstream of them, closer to the transformer.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 12:19:41 pm
content: I'm not really sure but my understanding is:Grid connected inverters put out as much current as they can until the voltage at their terminals is above about 253V and then they switch off?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 12:48:04 pm
content: Here's a general guide of the voltage sensitivity of various equipment:SMPS - probably OK. Input caps will be rated for at least 400V, which should be fine up to 280Vrms AC input.Unregulated linear PSUs - secondary voltage will rise in proportion, may exceed some component ratings if they were already near the limit at normal input voltageMotors - depends on size and type. Universal (brushed) motors may wear the brushes a bit faster but usually can stand rather extreme overvoltage (see all the videos on YouTube of this...) Induction motors are a bit more sensitive.Resistive loads (incandesent lamps, heaters) - if not regulated, very sensitive to voltage since power dissipation is proportional to voltage squared

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 01:56:52 pm
content: I want to add this.Regulated linear PSUs - secondary voltage will rise in proportion, power dissipated in a linear regulator will increase more than proportionally.