Soldering stations - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Reformatt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 10:23:36 pm
content: I'm looking for a quality soldering station to complement my new setup. I've got heaps of older style irons lying around for the bigger stuff, but they totally suck when it comes to anything with a large heat mass like ground planes or HDMI connectors etc. But I'm also moving into microsoldering work as well, so need an iron capable of coping with small stuff too.I've seen a lot of positive press about the JBC stations and their excellent thermal recovery. But I've seen mixed feedback on the cost of the tips and their life as well. I've been eyeing off the CD-2BE and CD-2SE from Mektronics, since they're not too much more than the comparable Hakko station. The 2SE comes with a T210 handpiece but can be swapped with a T245 handpiece which has a large power rating. It appears to me that both models use the same base unit, just supplied with a T210 or T245 handset (and are interchangeable). I don't need dual port, I would just swap the handpieces over if need be. Can anyone comment on these stations, life of the tips etc?Just not a fan of Hakko. The user interface is what really puts me off. The FX-981 just looks difficult to use based on what I've seen from Louis Rossman's videos. I know the JBC tips are 3 times the price of the Hakko, but I don't mind that if the life on them is reasonable when you look after them.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 01:42:37 am
content: I'd like to see a proper review of the QUICK TS1200A (paging Dave @EEVblog). It's a 120W station with integral heating element tips similar to Pace ADS200 and Hakko FX951 but with a good looking user interface for around the same price.

author: Reformatt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 06:12:03 am
content: I did look hard at the TS1200. It would complement the TR1300 hot air station I have, however my primary concern with Quick is getting after sales support for tips and spares. All you get if you contact them is crickets. At least with JBC/Hakko, there's plenty of after sales support and spares.I'd seriously consider Ersa, but not so easy to source these in Australia from what I can see.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 09:34:40 am
content: The T210 handpiece isn't really much smaller than the T245.I recently got a long-reach conical tip to try and have been pretty happy with it, the next improvement from that is probably their micro-soldering station.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 10:22:49 am
content: I have several of pretty much all their series, plus just about every type of tip for each. T210s, T245, HDs and all the tweezers. When I'm lazy, I'll use theirlargest tip on the T210 and it heats up damn fast, or I'll use the tiniest one on the HD .. everything works perfect.All the tweezer sets work well and when used with the wide flat tips, can pull out a dil smt in a second.As far as life goes, it depends on how often you use it and the temp - naturally. Also how you clean them .. I have NO complaints on life. I have other brandsas well, and really can't see that they last longer. Beats me. I did buy several long life tips, and they go for much longer 2-3x.PS I hate the stoopid new wool they went to :-) I am in SE Melb if you want to see / try out some of the units.Also have their de-solding set, near new, with board cleaning tips. Never used it. Going 1/2 - 1/3 price :-)

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 11:32:05 am
content: Quote from: digsys on March 03, 2019, 10:22:49 am*waves* I'm just a few blocks from the local Keysight office at the moment, down for a visit so I can the parental unit shifted to NBN.Maybe in a few months the installer will show up so I can head back to Sydney.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 01:00:14 pm
content: PM sent

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 04:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: Reformatt on March 03, 2019, 06:12:03 amYeah, I know what you mean, even Quick's website isn't up to date with these new models. I do really like my Quick 857DW+ so am really interested in the TS1200A. You might reach out tohttp://www.quick-usa.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=7orwww.promationusa.comto see if they can help you.

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 04:30:20 pm
content: +1 for ERSA

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 04:58:41 pm
content: Quote from: TJ232 on March 03, 2019, 04:30:20 pm+1 more for ERSA. I am the happy owner of an i-con2Although I seldom use it today, my ERSA 30 bought in 1971 is still in my toolbox.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 05:22:00 pm
content: I am also pretty happy with my Ersa i-Con (old model from before the 1 / 2 / V,C denomination).The only thing that really sucks about Ersa is their compulsive disorder of protecting IP at any cost. You won’t be seeing service manuals or schematics of any kind from them. It is actually nuts and I despise such behavior.If you happen to find an older model i-Con (see picture for reference), consider getting that one. It will be able to take all tools except the Vario tools, where the newer i-Con 1 only supports the i-Tool.The main board has a design flaw that is an easy fix (one resistor in the feedback loop) and the backlight LEDs might need replacement. You might be able to pick up a defective unit for scraps and invest less than a dollar for parts to fix it.The burnt out resistor will result in the unit heating up the i-Tool, followed by an emergency shut down of the heating cycle stating a heating element error.

author: Reformatt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 09:34:40 pm
content: I was trying to keep purchasing to Australia, as I got hit with a lot of hidden charges and import taxes when buying from HK. Can't see any local suppliers for Ersa. Mektronics does JBC, Hakko, Weller, Metcal, Pace but not Ersa. I used nothing but Weller and Pace years ago, but hey, I wasn't paying for that stuff then. Nice gear, just expensive.So would people consider the T245 tips etc ok for micro BGA rework and fine pitch FPC connectors? One local guy wants me to start fixing solar inverters (so need big tips to handle high thermal loads), but I'm also having to work on phone PCB's as well under a scope. I guess with that JBC station, you can just buy the T210 handle and tips and plug it in. Not like I'd be needing the two irons simultaneously.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 09:42:47 pm
content: Quote from: ReformattAs I said before, you can pretty much plug in any range tip into any of the handsets (withing their range of course), and they work perfectly.I often use their largest tip in the T210, and it is almost just as fast as the ultra-fine one.They also have special tips ie dil / quad reflow etc Not sure how you intend to use the BGA type? Hot air gun?

author: kony
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 09:49:25 pm
content: Happy user of ERSA i-con here (had RDS-80 before and on several previous job sites, but the i-con grips are better). My only regret is not going straight for the two outputs option.

author: Reformatt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 11:29:09 pm
content: Pad cleanup after BGA removal is primary intended use, or soldering on crowded multi-layered boards (like phone PCB's etc). I think the T245 would be fine for most of that, but some situations you need the extra small tips to get in tight locations. Hence the thought of using the T210.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 11:52:06 pm
content: Quote from: Reformatt on March 01, 2019, 10:23:36 pmPace released the ADS200 (120W) last year. Uses a slender aluminum iron and runs both the finest SMD and huge thermal mass tips on the same iron with no tip calibration at the station (this is a huge feature). The station is still fairly new and word hasn't got totally around yet. Pace is also releasing an aluminum mini tweezer soon for this station as well.Like the JBC the Pace has excellent thermal recovery (it's very fast heating just a few seconds). But the Pace is more accurate and designed (hence the series name Accudrive) to avoid overshooting. Pace design their tips for long life and have a generous iron coating. Less expensive than JBC and Hakko and among the highest quality tips available. Pace in the past have tended to market towards manufacturing/production and all day usage, so aim for low cost of ownership. Aside from that they design their products to have a 10-20 year life expectancy.You don't need two handpeices with the ADS200 because it is essentially both things in one, it consolidations their high and low power stations from a previous series. Some irons on the market look like they have great thermal recovery but have less iron plating or less mass on the tip which can in a way disguise the true performance, less plating leads to earlier failure as well.QuoteThe ADS200 has a very simple interface by design (up, down and preset) but works really well. All the config is hidden from the user and can only be accessed when powering it on. But it's fully featured behind the scenes, has temp setback, sleep, presets and temp lockouts etc.If you decide to get one, get the instant setback version as it comes with the instant setback cable. I have some spare consumables and still a few double ups of tips I won't be using so if you end up pulling the trigger let me know and I'll send you a postbag.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 12:48:12 am
content: Quote from: Reformatt on March 03, 2019, 11:29:09 pmThe Pace ADS200 does all that as well. They have just added several spatula style tips to the range (currently 62 tips with more coming out) for wicking and wiping style rework etc. Their finest smd tip is a 0.20mm (1/128") conical 1130-0035-P1.One thing I failed to mention before is tip swapping. Pace and JBC (at this price range) are among the easiest at under 5 seconds. Pace uses their tip tool and JBC uses the stand and both come with optional use silicone rubber pads.In my opinion the Pace tip tool is a bit easier as you can remove a tip right in front of you without using the silicon pad or stand. With practice you get really good at it. The JBC if you run several tips ends up a bit of a mess in their quick change stand and forget about odd shaped tips, it's just not the best situation. The Pace stand is large enough to allow the return large flat pack or spatula tips into the stand with the iron, and prevents dross from falling onto the table.I included a picture below of the stand, it has plenty of holes for stowing tips and can accommodate spatulas and flat pack or sot style removal tips. There is also an optional bracket you can add to expand it further.The stand is free to move about the bench so you don't need the station next to you, it can still can be attached to the station (or anything else for that matter) if you wish. The station itself has mounting rails (side and top) which allows you to bracket mount it.At the moment my stations are setup off to the side and I just have the stand within reach. This is the Pace way of doing it, you don't need the station to be there in front of you when the temp is setup correctly and since there is no calibration you just freely swap to whatever tip you need.If you do want to look at the display often make sure you get a station that has an easy to read contrast (under lighting and in the dark) and good viewing angle as well. Least you need to stand up or cover the display to see what preset you are at (if your station has presets that is).

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 02:33:47 am
content: Some of the range of handpieces and tips.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 03:30:14 am
content: Quote from: digsys on March 04, 2019, 02:33:47 amHey we have our stations on the same style desks, my desk is cream though.See how yours is setup, I'm trying to have my soldering desk square side on with my workbench at a similar height but set back with a slight gap in the middle and both to have rounded edges. That way I can have everything in a row besides me in arms reach and keep the cables tidy.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 05:03:11 am
content: GMTA :-) .. I custom make nearly every bench / workbench / storage rack with this stuff -https://www.tradesystems.co.uk/Dexion-Speedfame-Compatible-25mm-Square-Tube-System.htmlAwesome stuff, and so easy to whip up just about any design idea you can think of - PLUS - If something annoys me (often :-) ), I modify it ....some cutting and banging ... and DONE!

author: Reformatt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 11:25:29 am
content: Yes, I did see Dave's review of the Pace unit, and you've made some compelling arguments! But it's practically the same price from Mektronics as the JBC unit. I think Pace even stated in an early thread they aren't competing with the JBC at all, so just on price terms I think I'd still go with JBC.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 05:03:01 pm
content: Quote from: Reformatt on March 04, 2019, 11:25:29 amThe video Dave did was based on the thread discussion before the ADS200 was in full distribution. Dave got a fairly early unit, after that video Pace released a firmware update that included an improved heating profile, display and interface enhancements. I got mine just after Dave and since put the newer firmware on.Pace said close to the performance of JBC with JBC beating them in some of their larger tips. From what I have observed it's diminishing returns around that amount of power anyway. Yeah, would be nice if Mektronics sold the ADS200 a little cheaper here, tips are but not the station.Anyway they are two distinctly different stations, both solder.

author: SMARTMULTI
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 11:16:45 am
content: Hello, accidentally smoked new pace ads200 110V station on 230VacSeems to have damaged the 4 x fets on the pcb input side, at this stage not sure what else? Does anyone know what is the secondary voltage supposed to be on the transformer, we measure only 3Vac? PACE support of little assistance and just say "buy a new one". Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 12:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: SMARTMULTI on March 26, 2019, 11:16:45 amPace probably draws the line at supporting people repairing their units after a catastrophic failure. It's likely the transformer and PCB would be damaged so if I was selling a product I'd be saying the same thing.Mbless drew up a schematic which can be found in the thread I linked below. There might be mention of the secondary voltage there. I recall either measuring that or the DC voltage previously but can't remember off hand. I'll open one up tomorrow.The unit is fuse protected and they include a spare fuse I think. It's not going to guaranteed protection from damage like that but you might be lucky and have blown a fuse. I'd be disconnecting the transformer from any load then measuring it after checking the fuse. Don't use the transformer until you can either supply the correct input voltage or have confirmed the PCB is repaired.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/newest-pace-ads200-production-station-(a-jbc-killer-at-$239)/msg1719413/#msg1719413Edit:In the meantime you should be able to confirm the logic circuit is operational by isolating the LM7805 i.e. removing it from circuit, disconnecting the iron and applying current limited bench 5V to where the LM7805 output pin was). Obviously don't have the transformer connected. While the LM7805 is out you can test it or replace it while reducing the risk of damaging the station further during repair.Speaking of repairs, we have a repair section on the forums, really for help you should post a new thread there.

author: SMARTMULTI
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 03:16:12 pm
content: Thank you Shock for this valuable feedback, will try as above, much appreciated

author: SMARTMULTI
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2019, 07:24:42 pm
content: Hi, did re-post on repair forum but have no replies as yet, can you assist on the transformer secondary voltage for the ADS200 there is no mention on the schematic, thanks in advance

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2019, 03:39:01 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/pace-ads200/