Should I buy a BK Precision 4017A Function Generator? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 05:36:31 am
content: Just received my copy of LAoE today and they recommend the BK Precision 4017a function generator. It retails for $449, but I see one that looks to be in mint condition, one year old, on ebay for $175.Should I grab this, or is my money better spent on a different function generator? I need a good function generator for LAoE as well as for DIY Synth work (which I am told needs output/amplitude control of the output wave?)I wouldn't mind saving a lot of money if a $50 item will do everything I need. But I am willing to spend up to like $250 if need to.Thanks-Totally Clueless Newbie

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 06:04:44 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 04, 2017, 05:36:31 amNo, that's too expensive. Also, I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a service manual.You can get a classic HP 3312A for $50-70 with some careful shopping. It's much better than the B+K except for not having a frequency counter built in.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 06:43:38 am
content: Quote from: edavid on March 04, 2017, 06:04:44 amSo, since it doesn't have a digital display of the frequency, i.e just the analog knob, you'd need to hookup a frequency counter to it if you need it right on? I guess you can split the output into the frequency counter and to the destination (e.g. oscilloscope) ?Do you think the HP has fine enough control for say SYnth work, where say you are calibrating oscillators? 1v/octave.

author: djnz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 07:07:42 am
content: Another vote for not buying it.Also, I am not sure BK is a good company any more. Most of their stuff seems to be rebadged stuff made by some Asian OEM, but sold at premium western brand pricing. I reported a bug in an instrument months ago, easily fixable by a firmware upgrade, and all I have received is a one liner saying they will look at the email I had sent. I had given detailed instructions on how to reproduce the bug and specifically asked them to acknowledge the bug fast even if it takes them longer to fix it. So far no response about that at all. Does not inspire confidence.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 07:40:21 am
content: what about making a lowball offer on one of the numerous ITT bankruptcy 25mhz rigol 1022a on ebay? i snagged one for $170.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 08:33:41 am
content: I don't see numerous 1022a. Lots of 1022 but not 1022a.They are asking like $300 or best offer. There is an auction for one currently at $98.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 08:52:08 am
content: What about one of the Pico Scopes (2204A or 2206B) with waveform generator built-in.http://www.tequipment.net/Pico/2204A/PC-Based-Oscilloscopes/?v=7404I don't have any personal experience with these. Maybe someone else can give you a thumbs up or down.Or even build one if you're so inclined. I'm currently laying out a PCB centered around an AD9834 and a PIC18F2550.Edit. Included photo of test rig.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 09:07:43 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 04, 2017, 08:33:41 amtry offering $200 on the best offer one and see if they bite. could get lucky, i did. seller has 7 of them and probably wants to get rid of them.or follow the auction. i'd bid up to $180.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 10:56:45 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on March 04, 2017, 08:52:08 amHey, that looks pretty neat and compact! I like the little display.What are you planning to do for the power supply? The +5, +-12 supply might get in the way of the nice "pocket" form factor. Wouldn't it make sense to include boost converters on the PCB? (How much current does it draw overall? Would battery power be a realistic option?)

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 11:36:13 am
content: The PCB is just over 3"x3". I never thought about making it portable. I rarely need a function generator and it started out more of a toy than anything. It will probably end up in a box with connections for my bench power supplies.I would like to keep the board small. Maybe a separate power supply board...The display is a 1.27" Color OLED from Adafruit.https://www.adafruit.com/products/1673

author: asadullah mir
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 02:17:28 pm
content: I own both a B&K 4017 and a B&K 2017. I highly recommend giving them the miss.Reasons;1. Very poor waveform above about half the rated max freq.2. B&K have kept service information under wraps. No schematics available and B&K refuse to issue one, upon request. Repair is a bitch and I would rather give them away than attempt a repair.3. They do have frequency meters built in but at fixed 0.1Sec 1 Sec and 10 Sec gate time, the resolution accuracy and speed are abysmal.4. They drift like a rudderless ship at sea. Freq stability is next to none.I suggest you look at something like say a S3200s they can be had for as little as 50US$ and the performance is miles above B&K. Take a look at some YT videos and you will know more.I will give away my two B&K free if someone will pay for the freight charges.I live in Pakistan so it might be that the SY3200 will cost less to get.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 03:48:47 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on March 04, 2017, 11:36:13 amQuote from: MarkF on March 04, 2017, 11:36:13 amAgree, a separate power supply board would be a good solution. Keeps things flexible, for various poer supply options. The spare room below the main board, next to the BNC jacks, should be adequate for that. -- Have you laid out the PCB with a particular enclosure in mind?That OLED display is quite nice indeed (altough not cheap!).Anyway, if you should decide to publish your design and code eventually, I would be quite interested in building one of these!

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 04:47:33 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 04, 2017, 08:33:41 amI bought a 1022A from an ebay user called "TryC2" - got it for $159 + shipMost of his stock is the non-A version, but I think he has one A model on offer

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 04:54:15 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 04, 2017, 06:43:38 amRight. It has a sync output for just that purpose.QuoteWhy would you use a function generator to calibrate a VCO? Wouldn't you use a voltage source?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 05:41:07 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 04, 2017, 03:48:47 pmAnyone interested can PM me their email address and I will send them all my design files.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 08:02:32 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on March 04, 2017, 04:54:15 pmThe better analog function generators have a number of inputs and outputs which are missing on modern DDS function generators. For instance the VCO input, ramp output, and sweep sync output can be used in combination with an oscilloscope to make a low frequency network analyser.On my old B&K function generator, I rebuilt the sync output into a fast reference level output for calibrating 100 MHz oscilloscopes.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2017, 11:28:42 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 04, 2017, 08:33:41 amOffer $100 for a few sellers. I'm sure you'll get a response.Another decent function generator you can keep an eye out for is the BNC 625 / Telulex SG100.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 02:11:11 am
content: Unless you can fix it, I don't recommend buying much from eBay. Every time I buy something I worry that it won't work and, so far, I have been lucky. Maybe...The Analog Discovery has better specs and dual channels plus it will do arbitrary waveforms (stuff you make up) and the BK won't. It has adjustable output voltage, of course, and it will generate sweeps. Output is adjustable from 10mV P-P up to 10V P-P Max frequency is 10 MHzDownload the software and play with it - just select the AD 2 Demo Device. See if it has any utility. In my view, it is the very best way to instrument LTAoE until you get into dual supply op amps (+-15) and, for that, you need a decent power supply. The AD will only provide up to +-5V which would still be ok for modern op amps.The Analog Discovery also has much more capability than the LTAoE recommended Global Specialties PB-503 prototype in terms of digital IO, logic analyzer capability, scope, signal generator - pretty much everything:http://www.globalspecialties.com/electronics-trainers/analog-a-digital-circuit-design-trainers/97-pb-503.html

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 03:23:45 am
content: I'm not a fan of B+K gear. As mentioned, their stuff is just rebadged versions of other companies' products with a premium tacked onto the price tag.The HP 3312A is a nice analog function generator. Tabor also makes nice generators, which have been rebadged by Wavetek, Fluke, etc.For an inexpensive 2-channel DDS and frequency counter, there's the FeelTech FY3224S. There's a thread here about it.However, you should consider the Analog Discovery that rstofer has mentioned several times. It'll cover most of the general-purpose needs at a nice price.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 03:28:39 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on March 05, 2017, 03:23:45 amI guess the AD would also eliminate the need for the logic probe the book recommends? It has 16 channels of logic probing right? So I could monitor what's going on in a digital circuit between a microcontroler/microprocessor and other IC's.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 03:28:54 am
content: There is a HP 3312A for $40 + $25 for shippinghttp://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-3312A-/302239000847?hash=item465ed9290f:g:1KAAAOSwCU1Ytwre

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 03:45:14 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 03:28:39 amCorrect. It's a nice bundle of functionality for educational purposes, which is what it was made for.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 04:06:50 am
content: I see AD and AD 2. Which one to get? I see some used AD for $187. But who knows if they blew up some sub-component of it or not. I probably wouldnt' be smart enough to test all the features in the amount of time needed to be able to return it if it is defective.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 04:19:49 am
content: If you don't intend to buy used, then get an AD2 (many improvements over the AD). Either should be fine for LtAoE.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 04:29:10 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 03:28:39 amNot only will the AD function as a logic analyzer, it will also allow you to simulate switches and LEDs. Look at the Static IO feature.The AD will also decode RS232, I2C and SPI buses which will be very handy when working on micros.On the digital side, the device really wants to talk to 3.3V logic. It will tolerate 5V inputs but I don't think it will output enough voltage to trigger 5V logic. There are ways to deal with that (like a simple transistor) but micros these days are primarily 3.3V The Arduino, OTOH, is typically 5V so some type of level shifting on Arduino inputs (AD outputs) will probably be required. You can use a simple transistor inverter.Or, spend $3 on a pair of logic level shifters. Configure one for input to Arduino and one for output from Arduino and shift up to 8 signals each way. You can mount these on one end of the prototype board and just leave them installed. Patch them when you need them.https://www.adafruit.com/product/735Then there is the Digilent Adept library. You can use the library to create custom applications using one of the Visual Studio platforms. Build your own panel for a custom project, etc.While you are at Digilent, consider some 2x6 or 1x6 headers. Plug these into the breadboard and the AD cables will fit right on. I am tending toward 2x6 just in case I want to use the signal generator output to my circuit while connecting to the scope input.http://store.digilentinc.com/all-products/accessories/connectors-and-cables/

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 05:25:35 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 04:06:50 amThe AD2 has two additional features that make all the difference: First of all, the power supplies are adjustable and, more important, an external wall wart can provide additional power that the 1 version just couldn't deliver. This is a really big deal because the 1 version didn't deliver much current at all and would often trip on overload just charging the bulk capacitors. I have the first version (had it a long time) but I sure wish is was AD 2. I might buy one just because...Again, you save some money buying used but lack such refinements such as a warranty. The Pro version will cost about $300 and that's a reasonable price considering it is guaranteed to work.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 05:57:24 am
content: A sales video that does a pretty good job of discussing the featuresDave's review:Examples (really practical stuff):These videos are all using old software and perhaps AD 1.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 07:37:33 am
content: So of everything mentioned with respect to function/signal generators, the Rigol dg1022a offers the most and is the best choice? It's all digital right? Hence the "DG" in the model number I presume.I can afford it, assuming I can get it for $200 or less. Is it better in every way to the HP 3312a?I think I rather have standalone pieces of test gear, vs the AD. AD would require me to purchase a notebook computer as my only computer is a PC in the living room at my desk there. My workbench is in the kitchen.Something like this wouldn't be sufficient? (A $10 cheap alternative to save some money?)http://www.ebay.com/itm/AVR-DDS-Function-DDS-Signal-Generator-Module-Sine-Triangle-Square-Wave-KITS-/331878771542EDIT: I'll probably need a computer for the workbench regardless, for arduino development and other things. Do you guys find a notebook computer sufficient for your electronics workbench or do you like a full PC case so you can stick in addon cards to the bus? If I had some sort of wireless USB I could use that to communicate to my PC in the other room. Walk over to my desk in living room and alter the code and then send it via wireless USB to arduino in the kitchen.. then run back to the kitchen and test the circuit.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 08:45:08 am
content: for my electronics workstation, I have an intel nuc NUC6i5SYH attached to the back of an ASUS VS228H-P on an articularing monitor arm.but a laptop would be perfectly sufficient too.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 09:04:19 am
content: Been watching the vids on AD and AD2. They look impressive. As long as I can use the logic analyzer with arduino with that array of transistors, with no problems. Would the static IO also work with 3.5 to 5v with transistors? Seems a bit of a pain though. Would it make sense to get a logic analzyer that is made to work with 5V?The WaveForms software is what is used with AD & AD2 from what I saw. Will this software work on a Windows 7 PC made around 2010? I see I can buy older laptops for around $100 or so that run windows 7. I presume arduino IDE works well with this older PC and windows 7 as well. I run Mac OS X in the living room.I am jealous students can get AD for $159 heh. I am a student, but self educating, does that count lol? I wonder if they can get AD2 for $159 as well. I'd totally buy an AD2 for $159.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 09:14:56 am
content: Quote from: usagi on March 05, 2017, 08:45:08 amNice setup!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 10:09:19 am
content: I've run the WaveForms on a 3 GHz Core2Duo machine with 2GB RAM I made in 2008.In my work area I have a Gigabyte Brix attached to the back of an ASUS 24". It was the second from the cheapest Brix model and I paid $99 on sale from Newegg. All I had to add was 4 GB of RAM for $25 and a $45 Kingston SSD. It's not super fast, but it's adequate, was cheap, and doesn't take up any space.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 10:24:24 am
content: Another one I see about same price as the cheap gigabyte brix is the following nuc (celeron based as well) :https://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC5CPYH-Graphics-2-5-Inch-BOXNUC5CPYH/dp/B00XPVRR5M/ref=sr_1_3

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 10:48:23 am
content: Any recommendations to which used laptop I should purchase in the $100 to $150 range? I see there quite a few options. Dell, HP etc.. various models. I don't know which model(s) are the most reliable and compatible.e.g. I have my eye on HP 6550b .. around $150.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 12:50:32 pm
content: If you are still considering older but goodies function generators, the HP units are really good for the price range you are considering. I have an HP3314A that is a great unit and has very clean waveforms throughout its frequency spectrum, is programmable and has modulation inputs. Others in the threads below recommend also the 3324A and 3325A or B.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/recomendations-for-digital-function-generator/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/good-analog-function-generator/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hpagilent-3324a-teardown/If you are looking for sinewave cleanliness (for distortion measurements) I would look at a Krohn Hite 4400A or even a Keithley 2015 (DMM + low distortion sinewave gen).

author: djnz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 01:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 10:48:23 amThat laptop does not seem to have USB 3.0, I'd recommend getting something with USB 3. The new Saleae Logic analyzers, for example, need USB 3 for reaching full specified performance. Any laptop should be fine I guess, but I like thinkpads (particularly when buying used) because they are generally built a little better and the hardware tends to work well with linux. If you can stick an SSD into whatever you buy, even better.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 04:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 07:37:33 amThere is a thread around here discussing the difference between the DG1022 and DG1032 and the author preferred the DG1032. Around Reply 18 here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1022a-function-gen-frequency-counter-function/msg949417/#msg949417QuoteFG085 will probably be sufficient. It actually works pretty well.https://www.amazon.com/Function-Generator-DIY-Tech-FG085/dp/B00C5UO8U6I have a separate room dedicated to 'my stuff'. At the moment, I am using a Microsoft Surface Book for everything! I have other workstations (Win7,Linux,etc) but the Book is fast and spacious. I usually have it connected to a 27" monitor. At "homework central" on the kitchen bar, I have 2 such monitors so my grandson can use one with his Surface Pro while I use the other.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 05:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 04:06:50 amKeep shopping, I got a used AD for $100 not long ago. Students sell them at the end of the semester. (Or maybe you know someone who can order an AD 2 with the student discount?)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 05:18:59 pm
content: For a computer, if you don't mind used and don't really need mobility, consider buying a refurbished off-lease business PC. You can get these all the time for under $100. They are generally SFF (small), ready to run, and from decent brands such as Lenovo and HP.Example:https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883795221

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 05:29:23 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 05, 2017, 07:37:33 amThat kit will give you a chance to work with a 3 output power supply, not included... Kind of a pain when compared to just using a wall wart.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 06:03:04 pm
content: Just for giggles, I used 3 signal generators at 200 kHz for the image below. Channel 1 (top) is the FG085, Channel 2 (middle) is the Analog Discovery 1 and Channel 3 is the Siglent SDG2082XThe FG085 is a little noisy...

author: MasterBuilder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 07:03:38 pm
content: I bought a used GW Instek GFG-8020H function generator recently, also for audio work. Ebay item number 142233140407 its about £20 used. There are more still available on Ebay. I'm very happy with this purchase, features and condition are excellent. I did a thorough search of what is available and this was by far the best value for me. There is a lot to be said for having a dedicated piece of test equipment as opposed to something like the Analog Discovery.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 10:03:33 pm
content: Quote from: MasterBuilder on March 05, 2017, 07:03:38 pmI see one seller selling many of those; part of the ITT bankruptcy. Around $40 shipped. Are they pretty stable? If I recall, Dave suggested a cheap $50 Instek function generator as part of a starter setup, but it moved around a bit on the scope? Like it was shifting left and right over time.

author: unimorpheus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 10:24:40 pm
content: Quote from: usagi on March 05, 2017, 08:45:08 amI strongly second the NUC idea. Running a NUC5i7RYH as my primary workstation due to serious space limitations. Very underrated systems in my opinion.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2017, 10:36:53 pm
content: Quote from: unimorpheus on March 05, 2017, 10:24:40 pmi got the NUC partly for the space savings but also because it this specific model is totally silent. passive cooling, no fans.

author: MasterBuilder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 01:30:21 am
content: The stability seems fine, I haven't seen any movement on the scope

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 06:00:12 am
content: Quote from: edavid on March 05, 2017, 05:04:34 pmOr if there's an interesting class at the local community college that you'd like to take...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 11:05:58 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 05, 2017, 06:03:04 pmFixed that for you. ^

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 03:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 06, 2017, 11:05:58 amWhen I make a typo, I throw in the whole thing! Thanks!I fixed the original as well...

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 06:22:42 pm
content: And here I thought you were just being facetious. The model numbers do get to be a bit much to keep straight. Sometimes they start to look like DGSDSRSTUVWXYZ.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 07:28:41 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on March 06, 2017, 06:22:42 pmIndustry wide it can be confusing but with a little time it's easy to understand Siglent coding.All the models start with S of course and the next 2 letters signify the type of instrument like so:SSA: spectrum analyserSDS: digital scopeSHS: handheld scopeSDG: digital generatorSDM: digital meterSPD: power supplyModel series, BW, # of channels, digits, volts and amps are all somehow indicated the rest of the model coding.So for rstofer's SDG2082X = Siglent digital gen, 2k series, 80 MHz, 2 ch and latest X series.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2017, 07:39:58 pm
content: Yes, Siglent and Rigol have good systems for model naming. Much less cryptic than many A-brands.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 07:04:32 am
content: Quote from: MasterBuilder on March 05, 2017, 07:03:38 pmI think I'm gonna go ahead and order one too since you said it's been stable.. no shifting around of signal (like in Dave's video of that other Instek signal gen). Also the fact it only costs $23 plus $17 shipping. I could use the money.. been buying a lot of gear & parts lately to get things going for LAoE & AoE.Should be a suitable for LAoE right?As I get more experience, I'll be better able to choose a path to continue on. Just need something affordable to get going.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 05:33:14 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 08, 2017, 07:04:32 amThat's a prudent approach. Enjoy LTAoE!

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 07:12:50 pm
content: Thanks everyone. Just bought a 8020H. $41.50 shipped. Look forward to upgrading later on, and will refer to this thread then.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:59:22 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on March 08, 2017, 07:04:32 amIt's just an RC oscillator... it is going to drift in frequency with time and temperature. If you need stability, leave it turned on for a while before use.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 09:06:34 pm
content: IMO, the primary and basic function generator should be analogue. Good choice would be a HP 3213 or an equivalent from Wavetek. Offers quite anything you need in a FG. I got my HP3213 for 130€ (tested, from a dealer) and if you keep your eyes open, you should be able to do as well in the U.S.Except you decide to give the Tektronix TM500 system a chance. For all of these options, there are a lot of offers at various times. Best grabs can be done online at times when other people can't compete. Another method is to look up a serious and well stocked surplus/second-market T&M dealer and give them a visit. By doing so, you can get away with less than their official prices.TM500 system has certain advantages for a small lab, as your mainframe can supply diverse instruments, such as Power Supplies, FG, Counter, DMM etc. Further, the modularity means that you can start with a rather cheap FG501 and replace it with a 40MHz sweeping FG504 when you need it.Please do not listen to the voices peddling this disgusting chinese pseudo-instruments. Your T&M gear should be something you can rely on.