PDF Display Center Fold - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2022, 04:00:44 pm
content: We have PDF documents that use a two page spread, like a centerfold. i.e., schematics, illustrations, and with text.Users use Chrome to view our document online and Chrome does not observe the facing pages setting in the PDF file. Is it possible, at the web server or anywhere, to force browsers to show facing pages, so the pages are side-by-side, and not split apart and stacked top-to-bottom?Someone is telling me they will fix this issue "online" but I think there is no technical mechanism to achieve this and we should instead abandon this center fold layout for better online viewing.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2022, 11:54:57 pm
content: Chrome PDF reader is rather limited, installing Adobe Reader will add the extension to Chrome, which should be way better:https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/open-in-acrobat-reader-from-chrome.html

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2022, 06:46:13 am
content: I recommend SumatraPDF, though it is standalone and not browser plugin.Alternately you could generate pairs of sheets (B(ledger) / A3 size, assuming this is otherwise an A(letter) / A4 document), which might be harder to print, but I want to say most printer drivers should figure out how to print a B sheet over two A's?Tim

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2022, 02:56:39 pm
content: This is an online experience problem though. We can set up a print file, but what we want is for the world to see the document in their browser the way we want them to see it.I read that Chrome now supports facing page view, but it seems individual users need to set it up.I just want to know if the marketing lady knows something that I do not and she will be able to force the world to see the PDF the way she wants them to see it.I don't think it's possible, but I could be wrong.Here is an example where the title page should show as a single page and pages 2 and 3 should be side-by-side so you can see the entire radio. My browser shows them full width and scrolls pages that are stacked one over the other.https://www.icomjapan.com/api/download.php?page_id=29&fl=/uploads/support/brochures/download/HAM_USA.pdfSo can Icom do something to make the PDF show properly in my browser?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2022, 03:13:20 pm
content: I should say, in event users want to print it as well. If you're only worried about browser viewing, maybe it's an option.Or HTML output, why not?Tim

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2022, 07:00:42 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 12, 2022, 03:13:20 pmI am not actually trying to solve the display problem. I can do that by making single page layouts or HTML, etc. so that is not the problem.I do not make the documents, and I do not publish them, and I do not run the web site, but I do see the documents and I do hear the complaints from the field about the difficultly in reading text that splits across pages that are stacked, and product images that are cut and spread across those pages, and I have to listen to sales guys comment on the stupidity of having a layout that is not reader friendly. So the issue is that the marketing lady refuses to change the layout and claims she will have the web team fix the way the PDF is displayed instead.I am looking for confirmation that the marketing lady is full of BS and there is no way she is going to have our web team make the PDF display differently to all you peeps. I think there is no technological mechanism to achieve that.But I could be wrong, so that's what I want to know.Because if I am right, then I will climb the hill to change the layout. No sense in doing that if I'm wrong.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2022, 11:45:55 pm
content: Oh... an organizational problem then?Management should realize this is a friction point, direct the document author(s) to use, you know, actually readable formatting given typical viewing conditions/limitations; and to direct complaints related to such, to said author, not to some humble Metrologist, whatever your function is exactly I guess. Their failure to do so indicates a problem (or, it's intentional, for unknown reasons). So, while facing-page display would be a solution to this particular problem -- that it's a problem at all, seems indicative of other issues?Tim

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2022, 11:56:37 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 12, 2022, 02:56:39 pmPage 2 and 3 shows as single pages in Firefox, Adobe, and Chrome.Could have it as landscape, then user would have to rotate the page to view it.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 02:22:59 am
content: metrologist:The Microsoft Edge browser can show your sample file correctly by setting 'Page View' to 'Two Pages' and enabling 'Show cover page separately'.Same can be done with Acrobat Reader using the View -> Page Display menu.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 12:08:48 pm
content: I'm using thePDF Viewer 2.3.164extension in Chrome. It can display two pages side-by-side but you have to select it manually. Select 'Odd Spreads' or 'Even Spreads' from the dropdown PDF Viewer menubar. I haven't found anyway to activate it automatically. Also, it applies two page display to the entire document; not just pages 2 and 3.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 12:49:33 pm
content: There are javascript PDF viewers, so why not just embed one which can do this? This feature request for pdf.js suggests some way to do it that way :https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/590No need for the user to change any configuration then.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 01:17:06 pm
content: This looks like the only choice.If the PDF viewers in the wild don't respect instructions embedded in the PDF file, your only option is to provide a different viewer that does.Some of the users with disabled JS will curse you

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 04:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 12, 2022, 11:45:55 pmI really bring this upon myself. I could be like everyone else and just not care. I guess Icom's example is not that bad, but I wouldn't do it that way.I'm kind of a jack of all around here.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 11:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: magic on May 13, 2022, 01:17:06 pmAlso awful for accessibility and OS integration, the PDF workflow/tools usually available all evaporate! PDF is supposed to be like paper, easy to copy/print/file/markup and consistent visual/dimensional display everywhere.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2022, 11:11:32 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 12, 2022, 02:56:39 pmAnd in other browsers, that example has the page fold ordering misaligned.There is no standard in PDF to align pages to each other (as far as I am aware) so its undefined/implementation specific behaviour. Web 1.0 style solution, server up different files after sniffing the request

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2022, 09:38:54 am
content: Quote from: Someone on May 13, 2022, 11:00:39 pmYet two-up view works fine on paper for everything while it mostly doesn't on monitors for plain text pages ... reality meets supposed reality and forces compromises.Forcing bad outcomes for ideological purity is silly. Users will mostly be happy getting the two-up view for selected pages, if not they can use their own viewer.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2022, 10:49:36 am
content: Quote from: Marco on May 14, 2022, 09:38:54 amThat comment was against the idea of using some "viewer" that displays the underlying PDF (in the preferred manner) but does not expose the file to the end user. Like having pamphlets shown under glass, you can see but you cant take it to do what you want (standards are going this way).PDF files can have varying page sizes (attached), if that presentation is the most important part of the content then the capability is already there. How many people actually want to print some glossy brochure with 2 page spreads but in separate split page sizes?

author: bw2341
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2022, 04:55:32 pm
content: Is the Icom product brochure an example of a working PDF or a broken PDF?I tried it in Firefox, Chrome, Edge and Adobe Acrobat Reader. All of them open in single-page view. The Icom PDF has a single cover page and two-page spreads starting with the even numbered pages. In Firefox, Edge and Adobe Acrobat Reader, I was able to change the view settings to show them properly with the cover page alone and the subsequent pages side by side. In Chrome, I could not find a setting to show the even numbered pages on the left, so in that sense, Chrome is broken.I don't have the tools to check if the Icom PDF has Document Properties / Initial View / Page Layout set to Two-Up (Cover Page). Can you check with your tools?If it is set correctly, it means that PDF Initial View is effectively unsupported and useless. If it isn't set, could you link to a different PDF as this one is a poor example of the problem you are trying to solve.