Most (Digital-)Scopes are freezing while vertical adjustement... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:15:55 pm
content: Hi,To keep the BUG thread of the new rigol HD scope free from it, and because I think it´s a thing of general interest, here a dedicated thread for it.The beginning:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-hdo1000-12-bit-dso-bugs/msg4519475/#msg4519475And most of the following posts there...So what do you think, when scope´s freezes while adjusting vertical line, is it a bug most scopes then got ?Keysight are mentioned not to do this, also GWInstek - Not all models.Carry on here...Martin

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:24:29 pm
content: R&S doesn't freeze either

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:27:41 pm
content: No it is not a bug. It is how its made and fine. There is no practical reason for that. You look at the screen, you decide you will move waveform, you start moving, scope stops and shows you last captured squiggle as a visual aid, you set it and let go of the button. Scope resumes...Only problem is if scope waits a lot of time to resume capture after you let go...Keysight 2000, 3000A and 3000T (and 4000B probably, they are a fancy 3000T) stop while vertical moving, but resume so fast people think they update while moving if you move it slow enough...

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:28:57 pm
content: Keysight2k and R&S RTB2k stops updating when adjusting vertical position.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:34:09 pm
content: QuoteThis is excactly what I think about it.When examining a say 3-phase sinewave signal, I´ll put them on the screen in a order that fits best to see and while I´m doing this, it doesn´t matter, if the signals will be frozen in this time...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 14, 2022, 10:24:29 pmI know you have that scope, but are you sure?.I believe it behaves same as MSOX3000T, it stops while moving but resumes immediately.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:51:31 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2022, 10:34:09 pmDoesn't work if the signal is varying wildly and you want it on screen fully.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 11:09:54 pm
content: Calculation of extremas was your loving task in math, or ?Knowing the appx amplitude and the time is enough for me, because we´re not expecting surprising signals of the DUT in the testfield..

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 11:16:56 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2022, 11:09:54 pm

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:31:15 am
content: Can you edit it to a poll?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:41:48 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2022, 11:09:54 pmAppearantly you are never involved in electronics development work. That is a world that can be full of surprises. Think of a circuit oscillating unexpectedly.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 01:19:58 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2022, 10:15:55 pmNo, IMO this is called 'not understanding what you are seeing'. I'm not going to drag every scope I have onto the bench, so I'll just look at my SDS2354X+.If you have a low amplitude signal and you stop the scope and then increase the sensitivity a few clicks, you'll see an expanded trace with lines in it due to the digital expansion. Now if you set up the scope so that you have a fairly low refresh rate--whether due to low sweep rate, low pulse repetition rate or long holdoff time--you may briefly see the same thing as you expand the currently visible trace. Furthermore, if you have persistence enabled, the scope (properly IMO) clears most of the persistence display and just shows you the most recent trace, expanded as appropriate, until it retriggers again. If you do this with a varying signal--say AM modulated--then it may take some time to rebuild the persistence display. These things might be misconstrued as the scope 'stopping' while the vertical knob is being moved. I don't see any significant interruption of retriggering when adjusting the vertical and if it is there, it is a fraction of the normal retrigger time.

author: noisyee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 01:39:38 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2022, 10:15:55 pmKeysight does, even their new MXR. But much more responsive than its competitors - Keysight is always superb at.I think all digital scopes will display history waveform rather than acquire in real time when adjusting. It's a matter of current time base setting, memory depth and the instruments' processing power. Almost all scopes will freeze at large time base or large memory depth, in which situation it's too hard to process in real time.Some scopes choose to reacquire until adjusting is done, no matter what current settings are, so they "freeze". Maybe it's a limitation of the hardware, they can't refresh in time so it will make the scope slack if reacquiring-while-adjusting, or it's just a software issue to be optimize, who knows.Some scopes, like Keysight, choose to periodic reacquire while adjusting at smaller time base or memory depth, so the displayed waveform flickers rather than freezes. Keysight scopes behave more like a analog one which is always welcomed.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:53:34 am
content: Hi,Thankyou, I already knew this more or less."Goal" of the Thread is to explain that this behaviour isn't a bug in the scope's software, like someone might think.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 07:03:08 am
content: As i wrote in another thread"like the "zoom out quirk"it's really incredible what people fixate on. It's just another non issue."Doesn't work as i expect to (without ever reading the manual)" is different than "OMG ITS A BUG"please dave don't do a video on this as well, the last few of this kind were very cringe

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 07:08:07 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 15, 2022, 06:53:34 amThink of it like this:The modern DSO is a complex data acquisitionsystemfor which it makes no sense to maintain data while it is being adjusted.To prove the point, engage Stats or a Histogram and see how user adjustments ruin the acquired results.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 07:39:41 am
content: Quote from: noisyee on November 15, 2022, 01:39:38 amOr not. I couldn't care less for fake analog like emulations. It is aesthetical personal preference with no bearing to actual work in this case.Like analog: do you think that trace should also have focus drift, and change intensity all the time while you change timebase..

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 07:51:12 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 15, 2022, 07:08:07 amHowever one could argue that since the offset is applied in the analog domain the scope doesn't *need* to stop, you need to clear the measurements.Anyway i believe the fuss is over the fact that until the recent past most people had seen TDS2000 and simillar scopes, with 2.5kS acquisitions. Indeed it looked istantaneous, because the scope was refreshing faster than their movement. With deep acquisitions, not so much.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 08:41:13 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2022, 07:51:12 amWell that is the problem: offset isnot reallydirectly applied in analog domain...That is not a potentiometer you're turning. It is an encoder. It will reconfigure analog path, but with software in the loop... Also there is a offset DAC and with certain screen display modes, you need to recalculate offset+signal to get propper absolute values and set screen scales.. And propagate that to math and measurements.CRTs have absolute scales, DSO can have sliding scales (0 is the center or signal is the center modes)..Scopes that work with decimated data will be faster doing that.... Less data buffers to reconfigure..

author: noisyee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 10:11:31 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 15, 2022, 07:39:41 amYeah, I mean response faster like an analog one is welcomed.I don't think refresh in real time when change setting is that important. But some scopes always show lagging display changing setting is really annoying.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 11:50:30 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2022, 07:03:08 amI don't think you fully understand what is going on. What the Rigol seems to be doing is wait until the DSO thinks the user is done adjusting the vertical position for so long that it is perceived as lag. The magic number for humans to experience something without delay is somewhere between 100ms and 200ms. Wait longer, and it is perceived as laggy. So for a fluent user experience (which isn't a non issue!) it is better for a DSO to just try to put traces on the screen while the vertical position is adjusted. This helps both giving visual feedback to the user and prevent perceived lag.Actually, this makes me wonder whether there is a similar lag / delay on the Rigol when you change the trigger level.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:50:47 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2022, 07:51:12 amActually the old Tek digital scopes with CCDs had pretty low refresh rates compared to modern scopes. I see no reason why a scope sampling say 10 * 1 ms/div in 2.5 kS, which should take 10 ms to fill, would refresh any faster than a scope sampling 10 * 1 ms/div in 10 MS, which should also take 10 ms. It just has to sample faster and move more data, but any scope with such deep memory should be able to handle that, since that's the whole reason for buying a deeper memory scope.Based on ntcnico's description it sounds more like a UI choice rather than anything dictated by the hardware.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:58:30 pm
content: I completely understand where the issue is. I used to have a rigol after all, or i wouldn't be so critical of the brand at all times.Judging by the first impression video the vertical movement behaves exactly as it does with many other scopes I own, owned or used. Acquisition is stopped and current data is moved around so the user can see where it will be placed after the move.Fine with me.Maybe the lag after moving stuff around can be improved, maybe not.What is not fine is what other OLDER rigol scopes used to so which was stop EVERYTHING and not even update the screen so you are guessing where it's going to be. That is not fine at all, that is a bug/poor design choice, and that is not what i saw in the first impression video.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 01:11:26 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2022, 10:15:55 pmI have no idea what you are saying. I went back and looked at the thread and still wasn't sure. Sounded like Dave had made some video but I skipped to the top post and nothing.So set any scope to say 1 second per division and then adjust the offset then change the gain. Both adjustments will cause the scope to stop plotting. So, assuming the scope isn't some Siglent POS with poor encoders, if you continue to adjust say offset, the scope "freezes" the entire time. Minutes, hours, days.... Once you stop making adjustments, the scope will start plotting where it left off or maybe it resets to T0 but in both cases it is not smooth.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:17:35 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 11:50:30 amI don't know if this comes into play, but the fact that its acquisition is more than the one screenful (to support the zoom-out...) probably slows down its retrigger quite a bit.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:53:04 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 15, 2022, 03:17:35 pmNo. Acquisition can be cancelled/halted/stopped at any point. There is no reason to wait for a full acquisition when a parameter changes. R&S -for example- does handles this just fine. There really isn't any magic involved in an acquisition system. It is an ADC, memory and a counter that serves as a memory pointer

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 03:53:04 pmOf course the acquisition can be stopped and restarted, but it has tocompletethe subsequent acquisition process before the data can be processed and displayed, no? And it has to acquire half a buffer, then start looking for a trigger, then acquire the second half after the trigger, then process and display.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:30:08 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 15, 2022, 04:11:55 pmNo. Acquisition is interrupted and whatever is in the buffer gets displayed. That is how R&S works.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 03:53:04 pmAcquisition doesn't even stop. Triggering does. You keep repeating how it works but it is not like this. There are much more details than ADC, memory and memory pointer.First you have digital triggering. That works on a deep pipeline. Some scopes have qualified triggers so even deeper nested pipeline. There are measurements and math, some of which are on full buffer and accelerated by FPGA. Then there is a display rendering engine, with persistence and intensity calculation. Most of that stuff is also at least partially accelerated (we are dealing with 100s of MB of data in single buffer). And there is also hardware zoom mode.. Moving trigger point outside the screen means all the data in between has to be kept.etc etc... Add digital channels to the confusion. Also trigger interpolation and readjustment.... Channel skew and readjustment of those.etc etc...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:58:10 pm
content: Doesn't matter for the discussion. Point is that acquisition can be stopped at any point and if there is something to be displayed, it can be displayed to give the user feedback that something actually has changed using the new setting. There really is no need to make this discussion any more complex than that. This is not DSO design class, this is DSO use class. How a DSO works internally is likely different for each manufacturer so going into design details is just pure speculation.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 04:30:08 pmI don't see how that helps. I'm not even sure what it means. Presumably the only time any of these issues matter would be unusual situations, like a low repetition rate signal and a long acquisition. So some half-eaten acquisition not referenced to a trigger point doesn't seem useful except to give the scope a 'live' feel for those with some sort of OCD over 'lag'. A briefly frozen previous complete acquisition, lined up with the trigger seems to be a much more useful thing to have displayed.I see now that I misinterpreted the original complaint--vertical position vs scale--but I still think it is a non-issue. If your signal is varying that wildly, IMO the thing to do is zoom out a bit, not frantically twiddle the knobs.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:09:53 pm
content: It purely is a user interface design issue indeed. But in user interface design land lag is something people really obsess over. Just watch the TV series 'halt & catch fire' (supposedly about the founding of Compaq) or more recently 'the playlist' (about the creation of Spotify). In both series user interface lag is a source of serious obsession and frustration for several of the characters.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 04:30:08 pmSo like Joe said, you put scope to 1s/div, and as soon as you move trace with a knob what happens:1: Immediately erases the screen and starts from left side again with changed vertical position.or2: Immediately stops the horizontal trace scan and lets you move what was on the screen up and down. Once you stop, it resets and starts from the left.or3: It lets you move trace up and down while simultaneously keep scanning to the right like nothing is happening (except vertical movement, of course)Thank you.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 05:09:53 pmAlthough I'm a pretty deliberate sort of machine operator in general, I don't like input lag any more than anyone else. I just don't perceive the issue we're talking about as input lag.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 15, 2022, 05:17:17 pmFWIW, Tek Does (3) in the 2.5kS scopes, But trigger is disabled

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 15, 2022, 05:17:17 pmR&S does option 1. But I've seen all 3 options on scopes I've owned / used. IMHO option 3 is the 'worst' method of all because it allows you to draw fantasy signals.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:56:37 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2022, 05:36:16 pmYes, but those scan from left to right at slow sweep rates in normal mode with Auto trigger, allowing you to draw like an Etch-a-Sketch with the V-pos knob. Everything modern I have does the whole acquisition and then displays that, or else it uses 'roll' mode which goes from right to left. Siglent clears and starts over in roll mode with any vertical adjustment, which actually sems sub-optimal. Are others different?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 15, 2022, 05:56:37 pmActually i don't care, i can work around all of them. I just need to know which way the scope performs.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 07:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 05:46:52 pmR&S RTC1002 (ex-Hameg) does #1 too, but keeps trying to restart the acquisition much more frequently than any other scope I've tried. It keeps restarting plotting the trace from the left as you rotate the vertical position encoder slowly but continuously (and it erases it as soon as it figures you are still rotating the knob). At timebases faster than 5ms/div, it *seems* that it does #3 (or maybe it really does it, hard to tell).Also, RTC1002 has a vertical "Scrolling" control which lets you move the whole screen content (traces and grid) up and down to explore what's above or below of what's displayed (like a long webpage that doesn't fit on your computer screen). While doing so, it does #3 (at any timebase).

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 08:21:06 pm
content: I honestly think that the instrument cost factormustbe taken in consideration in this kind of debate, otherwise the whole thing becomes pointless.For instance, i spent the whole day using a customer's Rigol MSO5074, that almost freeze the whole screen update during trace vertical adjustment, but considering the cost paid (around 1000 euros, including PLA2216 digital probes kit) it was expected and tolerated but ... if it had been paid like 4-5K euros, well, there is no way to convince me that this level of "laggyness" could be acceptable.I worked a lot with power electronics (brushless motor control and induction heating), the last thing that is accepted in this sector is a DSO that freezes for a bunch of time during trace adjustments and considering that a 12bit DSO like new Rigol HDO series could be aimed to power electronics design lab, statemets like "no problem if DSO stops to update screen for a bunch of time" and / or "i do not give a s*** for analog emulation" make me laugh a lot.if I bought a 5K euro scope like the HDO4804 to find out later the laggy behaviour shown in Dave's video, I would not be satisfied at all, especially in the belief that the employed HW can do much better.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 08:53:55 pm
content: Quote from: markone on November 15, 2022, 08:21:06 pmCould you quantify "a bunch of time"? I might agree with you if the bunch of time was long enough.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 09:27:28 pm
content: Quote from: markone on November 15, 2022, 08:21:06 pmHardware doesn't exist in isolation. Scope is finely intertwined SW/HW. Maybe it cannot do better, because of architectural choices (in HW and SW) they made. Apparently optimizing this is not important for majority of users. As long as it is not 5-10 seconds, nobody cares..Delay to restart might be visible but it won't kill anybody.On Siglents I have here, it is a visible fraction of a second.. On Keysight 3000T it is less than 100ms. In practice either are good.Would it be nice if every operation on every scope would be super fast and reaction instantaneous? Sure.Is this a problem? No, it is not. It bothers you for some reason (which is fine by me) but it is no impediment to work.You have all the right to be very particular with what you like or not, and you might even make (in this case emotional, I think) choices based on some details that are not really relevant to do the job. But you are only punishing yourself, because no scope manufacturer will make scopes that suits you, and you will have very limited and expensive choices.. What do you think, they are going to start crying because you said you don't like something?Why do you want to buy HDO4000 ? 12 bit resolution? If I were you I wouldn't buy a product that is not finished yet. That would be more of a problem than this irrelevant waveform moving thing.Do you need 12Bit resolution? If not, get yourself Keysight 3000T/G. That one is fast as you like it. You will get tons of other compromises with that choice though. And those might be important where it matters... Or not. You decide.But, there is no perfect instrument.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 09:55:06 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 15, 2022, 09:27:28 pmI do have to wonder whether that might be done deliberately to give the front end time to settle down after an adjustment... It does appear to take a bit (a very small bit) longer to get going after a position adjustment than it does from a scale adjustment.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 10:33:20 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 15, 2022, 09:55:06 pmI don't have that information. But I know there are things scope has to sort out before continuing. Could it be done faster? I don't know.It might be that voltage offset circuit needs time to settle to good DC accuracy.People keep forgetting this is not moving signal plot on screen. Actual analog channel offset function has to offset signal with DC bias. It all has to settle down, otherwise first 10 or 100 triggers (depending on timebase) will have errors until it settles...What scope does here is mixes in additional DC component, ADC samples that, and then program subtracts DC offset from absolute values and plots waveform in scaled values.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 01:43:24 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 15, 2022, 05:17:17 pmIf you sweep at from 0.5 sec/div and slower my 80's LeCroy 7200 will erase the screen while adjusting, then start to fill the screen from the right to the left (roll mode). At 0.2 and faster, the screen will display the last data set and return sweeping (left to right) once you stop adjusting. With the LeCroy 64Xi, no matter if you use the roll mode or not, the screen will show the last data set. If you display more than one trace, all traces will show the last data collected while adjusting and resume when you stop fiddling.I assume my Wavemaster behaves the same as the 64Xi, as they both use the same basic software.Of course, as you crank these scopes up, the time that they restart is much quicker. So fast that you may not think they stopped but they have.Has any of this ever been a concern for me, nope. It's obviously different than the old analog days. Back then for digital storage, I designed and built a circuit that allowed me to capture the waveforms then play them back to the analog scope. As shown, channel 1 (yellow) is the waveform and channel 2 is the trigger. The circuit just keeps dumping the waveform and they trigger keeps it in sync. You can scroll through the waveform using the delayed trigger output. Because you may want to capture say a 10 second transient, and the analog scope is not going to have the persistence to show squat, the box allows you to change the data rate to the scope. So maybe you capture at 1Hz but you play back at 100kHz. You can also change the gain and what not. There was also a printer port but this only supports what ever dot matrix graphic printer I owned at that time. There was however an RS232 port and I wrote some software for the PC to download and graph the data. No doubt in assembler back then.The fun part with it is that it can output a fairly high voltage with a bit of current. Enough to drive say a small motor or a transformer. So, you could create some custom transient and dump it like an Arb but with a bit more power behind it. Funny is the thing still turns on. Its all wire wrapped.... Oh right, there was a point to this. Because it was driving an analog scope, I always output the waveform (to keep the display refreshed, again no persistence) no matter what you did with the interface. I suppose back then, I was thinking things should work like the scopes of the time.***tried to clear up some of my mess...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2022, 12:00:18 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2022, 11:50:30 am100-200ms are the absolute rock-bottom response times for a UI to not feel sticky like taffy. But if the intent is smooth motion, then sub-10ms response times are desirable. For example, when scrolling on a touch screen. It’s ok if tapping a button then takes 100ms to display the next screen. But if you use a finger to scroll, 100ms is an eternity. A stylus responding in 10ms instead of 100ms is the difference between it feeling like a pen vs feeling artificial. There’s a reason high end mobile touchscreen devices use 120Hz displays (8.3ms). (We can easily see the difference over 60Hz when tracking a fast object around the screen, like during scrolling.) It’s also why mobile OSes don’t rely on re-rendering in real time during pinch-to-zoom: they scale a screenshot (easily done with the scaler in the GPU) and then re-render any time you stop moving. Admittedly with recent models, rendering is so fast that they can keep up in most situations. The transition from GPU-scaled-bitmap to the re-rendered page happens so seamlessly we don’t even notice. (You can provoke this on iOS in Safari by pinch-to-zooming in as close as possible. Then try to zoom in more: it won’t re-render at all beyond the maximum zoom, and you can see some blurriness as it scales the bitmap of the maximum zoom level.) But I remember on the original iPhone (which had less than 1% the raw CPU power of the latest ones), operating on the bitmap “proxies” and other tricks (like tiled rendering) were absolutely critical to UI responsiveness, which is why they wrote an entirely new graphics engine focused on user interface responsiveness.People “obsess” over it because it matters.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2022, 05:15:36 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 23, 2022, 12:00:18 amYeah but confused what is being talked about here. Screen elements are being refreshed at very fast rate with a frozen capture... Full real time movements. And then you lift finger and then if it restarts capturing new data in 100 ms you won't see the difference. ANd even if there is a fractional perceptive delay, on order of 200-400 ms before it goes on it is not a problem because your attention needs some time to start thinking about what you are doing...That is the delay we are talking about. At least I am.