Hakko 936 clone soldering station- improving performance - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VictoriaGuy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 02:36:54 am
content: I recently was given a counterfeit Hakko 936 which wasn't working (because of terrible soldering of the power wires at the switch PCB).Like the Yihua in Dave's 'review', the tip (no-name or authentic Hakko - made little difference) was a very loose fit on the ceramic heating element. Heat-up time was slower than the 'real' Hakko 936 I own, and it also didn't have the (sic) 'heat capacity' to melt a larger solder joint quickly.I wrapped a small piece of steel shim around the ceramic element so the tip was a snug fit. Performance is now on par (faster heat-up from cold) with the real thing from Hakko.It might be worth a try for those $25 soldering stations. Heating the tip by air convection across a loose fit vs conduction isn't very effective.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 08:20:12 am
content: All clones are not created equal, you could start by spending around $5 on a decent genuine tip, especially if you got that super fine clone conical tip which is perhaps only good for SMD and repairing solder bridges.If you have access to a genuine FX-888D for around $100 (it's almost double in Australia and even worse in Europe) it makes more sense to get the real thing. My Yihua 936 clones (the same as Daves) were $15.74 each shipped, I'm not hurting too much but when I see people drop $50 to $150 per clone station I cringe.The gap between the tip and heater is by design though, perhaps the tolerances are greater on yours. People have complained about breaking heaters in the past so they should be wary of that before shimming their clone.There is a little more to the science than just warming the tip quickly. Temperature control, sensing and thermal recovery comes into play, so while you think you might have it heating up faster you might just be heating the shim up quicker, or perhaps you could be onto something that Hakko has never discovered in their design. It's likely crappy Chinese clone tolerances though.The performance on mine was fine but I did change to the genuine tips because it was unsuitable for the type of work I was doing. As you're probably aware tip selection is really important. The Hakko 936 manual states that you should also calibrate the station after changing the iron or tip. Dave didn't do this in his video and it looked like his 900 series iron element had metal end or shim on it. But like I said you cannot compare them because they are different circuits, elements, tolerances (even on the clones).

author: Arhammon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 01:16:07 pm
content: A pencil can help all cheap Chinese soldering stations on tips 900M.https://youtu.be/2I62-uDSnJkUnfortunately the video is in Russian, but everything is clear.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 02:02:46 am
content: Shock, it's amazing what you can learn here. I had a Hakko 936 for about 7 years. Never read the manual on it and never knew that I had to calibrate it each time I changed the tip. I recently sold it along with a spare power supply and using my "clone" Hakko calibrator, both were very close to what the dial showed. The wand had a chisel tip, I never used the conical tip that came with it.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 03:39:03 am
content: And when he changes the tip, he has to do it again?

author: Arhammon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 04:26:53 am
content: The handle for this soldering station cost less 5$. You can change handles with tip instead of changing of tips.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 04:37:45 am
content: Quote from: Arhammon on October 18, 2015, 04:26:53 am...and if you get a second stand, you don't have to wait for cooldown either.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 07:29:32 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on October 18, 2015, 02:02:46 amI discovered this after I changed tips the calibration was off. This is what it says:"The soldering iron should be recalibrated after changing the iron, or replacing the heating element or tip.""The tip temperature will vary according to the shape of the tip. The preferred method of adjustment uses a tip thermometer. A less accurate method involves adjusting the temperature control knob according to the adjustment value for each tip."The adjustment value for each tip is an offset temp that is listed next to the tip pictures, many of them say zero offset so I assume they are reasonably close.In the Hakko FX-888D manual they don't list tip offsets at all, but the FX-888D has an adjustment mode for when you do a tip change, or you could make presets instead if you change tips frequently.The point is these stations are not designed for frequent tip changes, otherwise you would think the element would be encased in metal or the handle. This is why I brought multiple clones so I could run different tips, an overkill but it beats swapping the tip once you have done it a few times.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 08:50:53 am
content: Quote from: amyk on October 18, 2015, 04:37:45 amThat's... not a bad idea. Kudos!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 06:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on October 18, 2015, 07:29:32 amI rarely changed the tip while soldering, but I have done it "on the fly" so to speak and it isn't fun. I am very happy that I have the 951 and the Metcal MX-500P. Tip changes are a breeze and I find myself more likely to change the tip considering how easy it is to do so.The whole multiple clone thing is actually a good idea if you need multiple tips for projects on a regular basis, providing you have the roomHot swapping tips on the 936 isn't fun at all. On the plus. side the burn marks do fade fast, at least for me. I burned myself with my 951 Thursday night, buy Friday afternoon, you couldn't tell.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2015, 11:44:16 pm
content: QuoteYeah, this is dumb. This is why real soldering stations have KNOBS with potentimeters. For general use the number on the dial/readout (calibration) DOES NOT MATTER. Digital stations are a step backward. I am already pissed off at the digital station that uses an incremental encoder for a dial that someone is eventually going to make, because it needs to be absolute!I switch tips quite frequently. I know about where to put the knob when changing tips/jobs. Too many combinations to store them all and be of any use.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 12:27:12 am
content: My idea was to put it in my always-with-me toolbox. But several handles just take to much space there. Maybe the tinfoil idea would work for me.

author: crt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 01:57:56 am
content: Thanks a ton Russian guyWow, just tried with my fx888 clone its fabulous. I used to set about 350 deg, after apply this trick, now i only set to about 310 deg with fast thermal "recovery"thank you Arhammon for the video link

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 11:05:13 am
content: Quote from: crt on October 19, 2015, 01:57:56 amHopefully the pencil lead shavings don't fall back up the iron onto the PCB somehow.

author: Arhammon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 12:37:43 pm
content: Also this trick is not acceptable if a heater is not isolated from the mains like in A-BF GS90D and similar. Or a heater has cracks.May be sand is better, quartz can work in high temperature.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 10:55:52 pm
content: If I got the eevblog video correct, using an original hakko tip is the best solution?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 12:45:36 am
content: Use the new T18 series original Hakko tips, if your irons a 907 series clone, they should be compatible. The T18's are an improved design according to Hakko. If you buy a FX-888D later you can still use them.Some clones however come with a 907 series iron but 900L (large) series tips. In this case to use the standard tips you need to buy the standard collar and nut. You can normally tell if you have a 900L style tip if the collar has air vents.As shown in the photo though some clones have air vents even on their standard collars, but notice how the top tip is fatter in the body, that is a 900L setup (which has only a small selection of high thermal capacity tips).

author: lsheng
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 01:19:03 am
content: This is ingenious. I used 0.02mm aluminum and stainless steel foil to fill the gap between heating element and soldering tip. One round of stainless steel surrounding ceramic heating element is used to prevent aluminum fuse the heating element onto soldering tip. I also used a little soldering instead of pencil dust to fill the cavity, but sometime you need heating up a little to take off the soldering tip. The pencil dust will also be a little bit messy I think. After all these done properly the thermal conductivity is as good as a genuine HAKKO T18 series tip. But I still prefer those Chinese manufacturer can wise up and do a little modification to their products, after all most the material they used is the same as genuine Hakkos, just the knowhow they lack.Quote from: Arhammon on October 17, 2015, 01:16:07 pm

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 02:39:50 am
content: I wonder why all are clones and there aren't very top quality soldering stations. After all, most electronics production is done there.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 10:50:41 am
content: The reason they are not, is because the assembler who put the parts together is the same person who qc the parts and also the individual who packs the equipment also the same person who load the goods on to the truck and is task to deliver to the port.The 936 ceramic heater with loose fit copper tips is flawed by design. Clone or genuine, the disadvantage exist and it can't be excluded. The best thermal response is obtained by embedding the heater and temperature sensor in the tip.Hakko know this very well that is why the integrated heater tip T12 series is more expensive upgrade to the 936 classics.

author: Arhammon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 04:30:03 am
content: This is unlikely. Chinese stations are manufactured in large volumes. I have found video - standard conveyor assembly.The main problem is Chinese tips. They have the low precision of drilling. Holes in tips have sweep drilling depth of 5mm.I think this is "The Market for Lemons" - manufacturer with an expensive and high-quality equipment will not survive in the Chinese market of LowEnd soldering equipment.Chinese T12 tips also have heat transfer problem.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2016, 02:30:42 pm
content: So the Chinese = Crap is going to be a long term synonymous, I see.

author: lsheng
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 03:50:15 pm
content: Unless you buy a Iphone, which only few consider crap. The most copies I have are not bad in all respect. They are shinier than original Hakko tip, the outer layer resists rust better than the original Hakko. It just dost not matter much if you use the tip once a while, it would not get chance to rust and the tip get ugly rather fast even for a genuine Hakko. So the prettier outer layer does not count much.Quote from: timofonic on June 01, 2016, 02:30:42 pm

author: Corner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:40:27 am
content: About soldering stations used in Chinese manufacturing plants, they actually don't use those cheap T12 stations and the 936 style stations at all, of course due to reliability issues. Many factories where workers have to do hand soldering are equiped with Quick 205 high frequency soldering stations, and this seems to be the gold standard now. Prior to this I believe it was Hakko 936.China produces, sells and uses some high quality stuff at least inside China. I think the reason why we see shitty Chinese soldering products everywhere is because those are the products re-distributors can make the most profit on. High quality Chinese products are pretty expensive and prices are comparable to what we have in the west. I'd be super surprised if they could take up most of the worlds manufacturing jobs with those shitty intermittently working 936 style soldering irons.Another example is solder. You see different brands of shitty Chinese solder sold everywhere on eBay and Aliexpress, but that's not what they use! I've recently bought a few brands of Chinese solder widely used in Chinese repair shops. They are bloody awesome. Quality wise they are indistinguishable from the Loctite and Pro'skit silver solder I use!

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 01:47:37 pm
content: Where do you buy these?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 09:51:42 pm
content: It's not a cartridge based station so no easy swap tips. The tip selection sucks (no smd or rework tips). The grip to tip doesn't look that great and the handle looks cheap and not particularly ergonomic. The station has no standby (setback) or sleep feature. It's very expensive for a Chinese made station so I'd argue the gold standard part for home soldering, especially at $250-280 US.Not only that I noticed the handpiece can be brought for $20 separately, I mean if that isn't highly suspicious in itself.I also believe they have copied Pace and Metcal design elements which have been around for decades. If you look at the back of Pace stand it has a wide slot to hold the tip tool, on the back of the Quick stand it has the wide slot as well but no reason for it? It actually looks like it was designed to hold cartridges and not it's own tips.

author: wb0gaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2024, 09:37:41 pm
content: Posting to this thread after long time dormant...The problem I encountered was poor behavior owing to absence of the ~25mm long, 4mm dia thin metal tube (a thermal link or shim).While looking for "how to improve my 936 soldering iron" a few days ago, I found this thread, and in particular, the link to the Russian-language youtube video showing use of pencil graphite as a thermal link.I didn't use that procedure, but it started me in towards a solution I've found is working well for me.I picked up a roll of thin copper sheet with idea to use it as thermal link material (filling gap between outside wall of the ceramic heating element and inside wall of the tip). The material I tried is K&S Precision "Copper Crafting Foil: 0.003" Thick x 12" Wide x 30" Long (1 Roll)". About USD 15 at the local hobby store. The material is very soft copper foil (so it can be wrapped around the thermal element and keep it's shape.)After a few experiments, I found that a 25 x 25mm piece, rolled over the end of the ceramic heating element (so end of the element is flush with end of the copper foil) created a reasonable thermal connection between the two, greatly improving performance.Testing with a thin "needle" style tip (Chinese clone of Hakko 900M-T-I) on a no-name Chinese clone of a clone of a 936-style solder station, using 63/37 wire solder 0.8mm (1/32") dia.Without the shim (just the white ceramic element heating the tip), the solder station needed to be set well over 800F to create enough heat in the tip to be usable for any soldering. Downside of this setting is that the idling tip temperature would get high enough to melt/deform the end of a clone 900M-T-I tip.With the shim (and the above station, tip and solder), a setting of 600F is adequate for small (SMD pad) type soldering; 700F is adequate for pooling small blob of solder on a ground plane (not instant, but quick enough, and the 900M-T-I tip isn't appropriate for that use case anyway.)The shim seem to hold it's shape sufficiently to allow re-use (changing tips), however, I need to take a little care when placing the tip onto the heating element+shim, as there is much less gap than there was before.Hope this is helpful.