Programmable Calculators! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2013, 11:41:56 pm
content: I've been looking at getting a new calculator recently, as my old one got lost/probably stolen, and I was thinking about getting a programmable one. I want to keep the money I spend as low as possible, but I might stretch it a bit if I need to.What's the general consensus on programmable calculators? I want a really nice calculator that'll be easy to use for electronic engineering, along with Maths and Science that I'm studying, and I figured programmable might be a nice little addition. Any thoughts?

author: bronson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2013, 11:52:43 pm
content: For the small problems, a calculator emulator on a phone or small tablet. For the big problems, a symbolic math package running on a laptop.I miss my HP48 but it's bulky and fragile. My phone is always with me.Now if anyone were to put a DMM and maybe slow oscope in the same package as an HP48, I could see carrying that!

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:04:55 am
content: Damn right, someone could make a bloody fortune off sticking a good DMM and calculator in the same box. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to put a bit more functionality into it?Anyway, on my current phone the calculator packages are pretty limited, I need log to base whatever, maybe equation rearranging, sin cos tan, sin-1 cos-1 tan-1, all that crap, and I can't get it on my phone...

author: Matje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:09:00 am
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 09, 2013, 11:41:56 pmEngineering, maths and science?HP 50g.Is there even a contest? ;-)

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:15:03 am
content: I've always used cheap/functional casio calculators, currently I have a fx-6300G. I don't need more, for that -> Derive/Matlab, ...http://digilander.libero.it/deathrider/calcolatrici/casio/fx_6300g.htmlI loved my fx-4500PA, but now is broken.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:22:13 am
content: 50g? I don't have money for thatAnd how does that fx-6300G Compare to modern calculators function-wise? As in the regular generic calculators used for maths?

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:30:51 am
content: To give you an idea, a gift:Casio:http://www.casio-europe.com/de/downloads/sgr/eActivities-engl.zipHP:http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/misc/hpuseredit540850.zipwww.maximintegrated.com/design/tools/calculators/

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 03:17:46 am
content: I use the HP 33S or newer 35S. Around $30/40. No graphing though.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 03:25:07 am
content: still a big fan of the TI-89.but, somehow I lost mine, so I bought an nspire CAS. still prefer the 89.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 03:44:07 am
content: I owned two HP-41Cs calculators, used them into the ground Almost thirty years of using an HP-41 and I still feel lost, maybe it is time to spring for the money and get an HP-50G...

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 04:00:32 am
content: I haven't bought a graphing calculator in years, but back when I was in school, the TI-89 was king.And yes, they're quite hackable.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 04:15:05 am
content: In my opinion the only reason to get a programmable calculator is to cram it full of the equations you were supposed to have memorized for your tests. I have a few fancy calculators and some older "nice" ones. With laptops everywhere I will use the computer to do almost any of the "real" math.Still, somehow I have picked up a few calculators.TI-85 Bought it to replace a TI-68 because at the time it was the only calculator TI made that did everything the recently discontinued 68 did.TI-68 Bought used because I really liked mine.Casio-FX-9750GII graphing calculator.Casio-FX-300EX fractional display calculator.So that's 4. All do almost the exact same thing for me, act as simple calculators with nice alpha-numeric displays. Graphing is stupidly pointless. Smaller is nicer. Really I think the TI-68 is almost the best of the bunch. It was an early equation entry model, the sort where you type out the as a "sentence" vs the really cheap models that still just show a single number. I know some people are wed to RPN used by HP but once I got a plain language calculator RPN was useless. The TI-68's only drawback for me is that it's single line with fewer characters vs newer models. I like that it doesn't use menus.Anyway, much of what I like about it doesn't mater now that I would use my laptop to do any of those calculations. I like the TI-85 quite a bit but the older LCD isn't as easy to read as the new Casios. Both Casios cost me less than $30... that's not each, that's total. The FX-300 gets used more because the smaller size is handy.In the end I would suggest getting a calculator that has a multi-line display. If you were in the US I would say don't spend more than $20. No idea what your prices are in Europe. In the US, thanks to all the stupid graphing calculators in high school, you can get TI graphing calculators for $15 used. That would be a great value. My Casio was I think $25 new on clearance. Not worth it. Nothing wrong with it but again all it does for me is act like a multi-line display calculator. Unless you think you will use the calculator to help you "remember" equations just get a cheap multi-line and call it done.

author: Sienna
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 04:17:29 am
content: I am still using my TI-89 I bought back in college.Quick ebay search revealed used TI 92s going for ~$30. IIRC, the 92 had all the math of the 89, plus a qwerty keyboard. It is just not as popular, and as such seems a bit cheaper then second hand 89s.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 04:32:13 am
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 12:04:55 amWell nothing is new under the sun:http://www.hioki.com/discon/pdf/multi/3207_08.pdfAlready been done... sadly it wasn't popular enough.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 08:17:37 am
content: Well, I'm going through pages and pages of calculators to try and find something suitableSeems like most of the good, cheap ones have been discontinued a long, long time ago...But thank you all for your inputAnd quarros, I've heard of that one many times, and I still fail to see how it could have not been popular enough... How sad...

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 08:28:42 am
content: I'm looking at the fx-9750G now, it seems like there's a TON of functionality in this thing, along with programming, graphing, the whole lot. This could be a winner!

author: headwes
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 08:32:36 am
content: Quote from: Sienna on November 10, 2013, 04:17:29 amMy recollection is the QWERTY keyboard makes it ineligible for use on certain standardized tests, which may explain why it never became popular.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 08:38:06 am
content: I would've thought ANY graphing/programmable calculator would be banned from tests?Having the 9750G with me would pretty much give me a guaranteed A!

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 09:50:12 am
content: Quote from: bronson on November 09, 2013, 11:52:43 pmmy HP29C finally gave it up a few years back, I switched to a phone calculator emulator on android... It's quite good, but I wish it had the programmability of the 29C ...Also, I still find myself reaching for a simple 4 function calculator more often than going to my phone... I hate this sequence of events... (1) unlock phone (2) swipe 3 or 4 times to find the calculator app (3) tap tp start.. (4) wait .... (5) finally the app starts... (6) oh damn, its a popup telling me there is an update, or a reminder to upgrade for more features ... (7) finally get to do the calculation (#8) screen times out and locks while I am thinking or transcribing numbers grrrr...

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 09:52:10 am
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on November 10, 2013, 09:50:12 amSame thing with me, you can't beat a real calculator for ease of use. I've been using my phone calculator in class for a while now, especially in physics, and it's a huge pain in the ass. Especially when I have to flip it on its side to get the full scientific calculator, and even then you have to input the numbers in a specific order otherwise it gets confused. Not great.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 10:35:05 am
content: I tried the phone thing too. I'd rather take the pain of getting my laptop out of my bag to use matlab than do anything more complicated than add/mult/divi/sub of say 8 terms using my phone

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 10:58:11 am
content: Darn. I was thinking this was a thread about the old Radio Shack / Sharp calculators that had a BASIC interpreter. I wanted one of those so bad as a kid.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:25:37 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 08:38:06 amIf you can go for the FX-9750G-II.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:30:57 pm
content: Quote from: Carrington on November 10, 2013, 12:25:37 pmI'm probably going to get the FX-9750G, the II is a little (a lot) out of my price range.Just before I go out and buy it, can I get some confirmations that the FX-9750G will have everything I need for A-level maths?

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:32:42 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 12:30:57 pmI understand. All right then.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:37:02 pm
content: Yeah I'd love to get the II, but money is a huge problem for me at the moment...Any thoughts on the FX-8000G? Better or worse than the 9750G?

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:38:13 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 08:17:37 amI hear ya! But the fact are here. It was not popular enough to see a second iteration of the device or to see another manufacturer getting into this niche.On calculators:Was there any of you who tired to mod the TI-89 Display? That is the only thing in that device that drives me crazy If I'm not in a well lit area and the calculator gets light from an angle, than the shown characters casts a shadow to the back of the LCD making it kinda blurry. I thought of making a backlight for it (eliminating the shadow issue but it seems it was a futile idea)

author: EV
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:44:19 pm
content: Here are some HP's I have used.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:46:41 pm
content: I like the recent hp35s, cheap and reminds me of old days at school !all the complex maths are made on a computer and not on a calculator anymore.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 12:47:12 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 12:37:02 pmLOL... Well, you're like me then. I bought my FX6300G in a big department store for 25€.Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 12:37:02 pmThe FX9750G seems better.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 01:13:18 pm
content: Quote from: Sienna on November 10, 2013, 04:17:29 amThe TI-92 wasn't allowed in many US standardized tests (SAT IIRC). The rule became no qwerty keyboards hence repackaged into the TI-89.

author: pgross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 01:14:05 pm
content: Hi jon86,I have always utilized HP calculators in my electronics jobs.For nearly two decades my HP48GX have been with me , but in the lasttwo years I have used the droid48 app on my Android phone. I have triedseveral calculator apps, but the droid48 beats them all, in fact the only thingIm missing is the tactile feeling using the touch screen, instead of the real HP keyboard/Peter

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 01:19:06 pm
content: I would again emphasize, if you have access to a computer the graphing on the calculator is useless. Even if you don't the graphing is very questionable. The Casio you talked about is OK if you get it cheap (like $25). The question is what functions do you think you will need? I've seen plenty of engineering students and these days they don't have big calculators. The laptop does that.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 01:24:54 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on November 10, 2013, 01:19:06 pmStrongly agree. Buy a cheap scientific calculator and don't worry.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 01:47:01 pm
content: I'm not allowed a computer in physics and maths, and lecturers tend to have a thing against us using our phones. It really needs to be a calculator unfortunately. I know a cheap scientific would probably do the job, but my maths lecturer said it'd be advantageous to buy a graphic. I can definitely get the 9750, but will it have everything a modern scientific does?

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 02:16:31 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 01:47:01 pmIn that case can you buy a TI-85 or TI-86? I've found I like TIs better than Casios. The only drawback to the TI-85 vs my Casio is the lesser screen contrast. I prefer things like the TI's inherent ability to handle complex numbers. Type (-1)^.5 into the TI and you get 0+i ( on the older model it will be (0,1) ). The Casio gives me an error. The ability to readily handle complex numbers was a great attribute of both my TI-68 and the later TI-85. Both could handle complex, simultaneous equations which were used in my into to EE class. Complex numbers were also a very easy way to deal with 2D geometry problems in the calculator. The TI easily moved from polar to rectangular coordinates, great for doing vector geometry.So if you can go TI, I would over Casio.

author: clifford
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 02:19:31 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on November 10, 2013, 10:35:05 amYou have not tried MathStudio (http://www.mathstudioapp.com/). There is a web version of it but the app is pretty good as well and has a great interface that works pretty good with phones and tablets (using the touch screen in a way that actually makes sense). It can do symbolic calculations (vector calculus is the most advanced thing I've done with it so far) and the interactive plotting features are awesome (I wish I had something like that in SciPy/Matplotlib). Because there is a web version you can easily create scripts and such on the PC and then use them on your phone.I can really recommend it alongside of Wolfram Alpha, that I like to use to solve complicated symbolic stuff that MathStudio can't do (such as obscure Integrals). For example, Wolfram Alpha can solve y=x*e^x for x (the solution is x=W(y), where W() is the lambert omega function, that is defined as the solution of this problem as there is no actual closed form solution). MathStudio does not know this.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 02:37:19 pm
content: I got an HP-48GX and an HP-50g at a yard sale a while back, and I have completely given up on them -- they are awful calculators! Poor construction quality, go through batteries like you wouldn't believe, and they are buggy. I realize that they feature lots of functions that their TI counterparts don't have (Laplace transforms for example); however, they are difficult to use, don't always provide a solution, and when they do provide a solution it is never simplified. It is easier solving equations by hand then it is trying to use the HP-50g!I love my TI-86,, and I also have a TI-89 Titanium. These two calculators are far superior to the above mentioned HP calculators. RPN is over rated in my opinion. It may be faster and less risky than standard input (assuming you have mastered RPN), but TI's new "pretty print" input literally lets you enter equations as you'd see them on paper. Also, when dealing with stacks, it is more cluttered and less organized than with single line input.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 02:59:40 pm
content: The TI-86 looks good, but does not seem easy to find in Europe.Someone know a good emulator of the TI calculators for PC (Windows)?

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 03:21:27 pm
content: Can you find an 85, 86 or 89 on ebay? If you can't then I would go with Casio as they aren't bad even if they aren't as good. Actually if you can find a TI-68 you might be very happy with it. As I said the single line display isn't as nice as the newer Casios and TIs with 2-4 line displays but the 68 does have some really great features for a single line calculator. The battery in my first one lasted 8 years (it was still good when the screen was cracked).

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 06:06:24 pm
content: I have quite a collection of calculators and still use my HP35s a lot and miss my HP48SX which has a missing column of pixels on its display, but I wouldn't recommend them for programming anything but simple calculations.It is not so much that they aren't powerful, though because they are aimed at low cost and long battery life they are not powerful, but that it is difficult or inconvenient to enter programs or save them once entered. The languages available are generally non-standard and are not conducive to writing easy-to-maintain code. The keyboards are good for entering numbers but not for writing lines of code. The screens are designed for a portable device not for looking at listings.You certainly can write code for say Time Value of Money calculations (if not already included) and even a simple net-listed circuit simulator would be possible but it would be much easier to use a conventional language such as c on an old laptop running Linux.If you don't need portability and want to do programming on the cheap, an old desktop running Linux would be much more powerful than any calculator and should be cheap. If you're not too fussy about being up-to-date, you may be able to find a redundant system for free (the university I work at gave away several redundant machines a year or two back and they had trouble getting rid of them as people didn't want 15 inch monitors and old pentium based machines).EDIT : sorry just read that you're not allowed computers. In a lot of universities you're not allowed programming at all in calculators (at least not the stored variety). I've done both an Engineering Degree and a Computer Science Post Grad Diploma as well as working in Electronics research for many years and though I've had graphing calculators including the top-of-the-line HP I've never used them for graphing anything. The screen resolution is too crude and most simple functions you can sketch on a bit of paper whilst perhaps calculating the odd value. I Use the graph plotting program on my Mac Pro quite often but I've never felt the need for graph plotting in an exam (which presumably are the circumstances in which you're not allowed to use a computer). As not everyone will have a graphing calculator exam questions shouldn't be set such that having a graphing calculator would give the candidate an advantage.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 07:41:18 pm
content: Since 2009 i use my lovelyCasio FX-5800P.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 08:52:32 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 12:04:55 amYou don't say?This is an early prototype UI just to allow for testing of the underlying code and hardware, the final design will be a lot prettier. The actual hardware has a physical keypad for the maths functions, but the final design hasn't been determined yet. (I'm using a dev board right now.)If anyone has suggestions for a keypad layout, features, etc., please let me know!

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 10:40:00 pm
content: That clock style thing is just useless wank, don't bother.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 11:35:54 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 12:30:57 pmQuote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 01:47:01 pmI don't know how the A level maths curriculum may have changed since I did it (eons ago, in 1978/9), but an advanced calculator was not essential then. I blew my meagre savings on a TI-58*, but that was mainly for the cool factor, not because I needed it.Mathematics is mostly about pen and paper. You should expect to need a calculator much more in physics and chemistry.In maths a graphical calculator may be useful for graphing functions and spotting where the roots, maxima and minima lie (but you should learn how to sketch functions by hand as you will gain a deeper understanding that way). Maybe some calculators have tables of anti-derivatives to help you solve symbolic integrals, but those are easily found in printed tables. Sometimes you may need to compute a numerical solution to a problem after doing the working, but any calculator can help you with that.In short, I don't think anything more than a regular scientific calculator with normal trig and statistics functions is really needed. (But two variable statistics with linear regression will help a lot in any scientific subject as well as maths.)The best way to approach maths is to try to learn how to think through a problem and figure out how to solve it by yourself, in spite of the way the exams tend to lead you to the answer step by step. The biggest jump from A levels to university is the change from being presented with a set of steps to follow (A levels) to working out the steps for yourself (university).*I paid £62.50 for it in 1977, which allowing for inflation seems to be about £330 today. I remember scraping together every penny I owned to buy it. It was crazy, but when you are young such toys seem amazingly compelling.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2013, 11:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on November 10, 2013, 10:40:00 pmThe thing in the top right cornerisa clock. If you're talking about the widget in the center, that's just supposed to be an analog gauge. I don't think having a small analog indicator like that is a wank, since it's showing you the current voltage relative to whatever range you're inandgiving concise visual feedback of what your signal is doing; it's a lot easier to watch a needle go up and down than it is to read 6+ digits. The final version will probably eschew the gauge for a standard bar graph, the needle was just easier to code for the prototype.That said, there most likely will be an option for a full screen analog needle display because it literally doesn't cost me anything to add and is occasionally useful.Like I said, this is just a UI for me to test various bits of code with and is not indicative in any way, shape or form of the final design.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 12:04:51 am
content: Quote from: timb on November 10, 2013, 11:58:55 pmIf you do include an analog display (dial or bar graph) I recommend you to use dithering with partial gray shades like ClearType to give the appearance of a continuous readout rather than fixed step intervals. On a real analog meter I can detect the needle moving by a tiny fraction of a marked interval.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 01:18:20 am
content: If you have an Android phone, try:- Droid48 (HP48 Emulator)- Andie Graph (TI82/83/85/86 Emulator)- Graph 89 (TI89 Emulator)They all work really great and will allow you to thoroughly test the calcs if you decide you need a 'real' one.

author: jonese
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 02:42:40 am
content: Quote from: olsenn on November 10, 2013, 02:37:19 pmSorry you feel that way, but the 48GX and older calculators are well regarded. Certainly, the newer ones (in the last 5-7 years) and not as good, poor keyboard mostly. I've had the same batteries in my 48 for the last 4 years.The 48GX ROM released are pretty good, only a few bugs, not sure what error you were hitting. I believe all the newer hardware versions after that were actually emulators running the 48 GX code underneath, so those "bugs" you mentioned would have been in those, but those would have firmware upgrades available.I know a lot of engineers that would only work with HP calcs and wouldn't be caught dead with TI or Casio in the workplace. That was the thought almost 10 years ago and more, but PCs have now overtaken the mundane tasks of quick calculations, so there's no where near as much use these days for any of them (outside of any exams).IMHO, once you've picked up RPN entry and understood it's strengths, you would never use a calculator with a "=" key again.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:09:26 am
content: Quote from: jonese on November 11, 2013, 02:42:40 amYeah, the later HP 49 series and HP 50 use ARM processors running a Saturn emulator. There's even a hack on HP 50g that lets users execute ARM code on it. It's drastically faster than System RPL and even more than User RPL. Also there are options to set clock speed, so longer calculations are done with faster clock and once they're done, the frequency is lowered to save power.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 11:55:16 am
content: Quote from: jonese on November 11, 2013, 02:42:40 amI noticed that back in the 90s when HP had RPN while the rest were, well what ever things like the old TI-30 used. As soon as you could start doing equation style entering I think the value of RPN was dead. It's early value was better handling of parenthetical operations. It also required fewer key strokes. Well compared to equation type entering the fewer strokes is still true. The easier to keep track of part isn't.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 03:08:14 pm
content: I have this one in my collection. I've seen plenty of vintage ads for it but this is the only actual one I have ever found.Otherwise I just use a TI-86 which I picked up for $10 at a swap meet.

author: AlessandroAU
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 03:27:47 pm
content: My favourite is still the Casio FX-9860G. I feel like the TI nSpire CAS _might_ be the new favourite though once I learn to use it as well as I have the others. The EL-506W as it can do calculations and conversions in binary, hex, oct and pen which is handy. For a basic scientific the FX-82AU (not pictured) is the best as it has a graphical display and can handle multi-line inputs, Officeworks was giving them away here for $3 not so long ago.http://www.casio.edu.shriro.com.au/fx82auplus.php

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 05:49:18 pm
content: Well I've just got some great news, the college will give me £60 towards any graphing calculator I choose to buy. But there's one catch, it has to be from a shop because I need the receipt...Looking at this onehttp://www.ryman.co.uk/1290410000/HP-39gII-Graphing-Calculator/ProductAny thoughts? And anywhere I might be able to buy a better one?Also thanks for the all the great advice!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 06:18:34 pm
content: It's probably between that and a Casio. I've always had a soft spot for Casio calculators, but HP are fine too. You should look for detailed reviews on the web. Unfortunately I hardly ever touch a calculator these days as I work in front of a computer screen and the facilities available on a PC are far superior to any calculator out there

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 06:27:17 pm
content: I've always found a handheld calculator to be more convenient even if I am at the computer. I'm quicker with it - a calculator keyboard is specifically designed for math - and I don't accidentally close it and lose results or anything.Anything binary or bitwise is done at a Python prompt, and anything with lots of data or something to plot is done in MATLAB. Complicated + symbolic = Mathematica. But basic arithmetic and such goes to the calculator (HP 48G or 35S).From what I have heard about newer HPs, it's either 50G, or get a Casio or (shudder) TI. But that's just hearsay, I haven't owned any of them.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:49:58 pm
content: HP used to make calculators with very good keyboards (such as the 48SX) but then their keyboards became awful (I bought the 48SX replacement - top of the line at the time - and I sent back the first 3 I got because the keyboard was so bad before deciding they are now all like that).The HP35s has a much better keyboard than many of the recent models, though it is still not as nice as the earlier ones.So if you're buying an HP from a shop, make sure you like the keyboard (the keys register with a nice click and there is no key bounce or failure of the key to register). Casio calculators have different sort of keys - they are not as nice as the good HP keyboards but are much better than the bad HP keyboards.I like the HP35s, I also like RPN but the one thing that bugs me about the 35S is that in maximum display mode (i.e. without a fixed number of digits) the display overflows so you need to scroll sideways to see the exponent value. This seems a very poor design decision on HP's part. Generally I want the flexible display (I don't want 1.2 to be displayed as 1.2000000 but on the other hand where there are more digits I like to see them) but having the exponent only half visible is a constant pain.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 11:12:14 pm
content: The overflow is very dumb. I run mine in four-digit engineering mode constantly just to avoid that.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 10:19:58 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on November 12, 2013, 10:06:29 amHmm, real printable reciepts?Also, is there any advantage to buying from Amazon, are there better options there?

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 02:48:33 pm
content: I always liked my Casio FX-991 because of how easy it was to enter metric prefixes. It offered quick access to everything from femto and pico, up to Giga and Tera multipliers as 2nd functions of the number keys.Of course the output was regular scientific notation so you still had to know your prefix conversions (as you should!) but at least it made number input feel quicker and more natural.Just wish I hadn't lost mine!

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 03:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: creyc on November 12, 2013, 02:48:33 pmUm. That's what the EE key is for.pico = 1e-12nano = 1e-9micro = 1e-6...

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 05:02:11 pm
content: MJLorton a friend of this forum reviews calculators go to Youtube and take a look at some of his videos. I know Dave has a couple of calculators somewhere on his workbench. Nothing fancy, just scientific calculators with emphasis in electronics like hex bin dec conversion and scientific notation. When I went to the university I couldn't afford a programmable calculator. It would have been helpful to solve matrices, specially with complex numbers, other than that A Casio Scientific did just fine. When my wife went to the university, they asked to buy an HP financial calculator, I don't think she used it that much, the same for the TI-83 I got for her. My son that is senior in high school uses his TI-84+ Silver all the time and he loves it. Currently I use the Calculator that comes with windows, I use it most of the time in scientific mode. When I'm not in front of the computer I use a free scientific calculator I downloaded on my IPhone. I think I wouldn't mind having a cheap SCI calculator on my desk. You can buy some TI, Sharp, or Casio scientific calculators for $10 new. Here in the USA can buy a scientific calculator for $1 at the dollar stores. Good luck on your calculator quest

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 05:24:08 pm
content: Quote from: casinada on November 12, 2013, 05:02:11 pmFor a Windows based calculator, I always use Excalibur (freeware):http://www.freeware-guide.com/dir/files/excal32_200.zipIt is very much like an HP calculator -- RPN, fast, scientific/engineering notation, complex numbers, fractions, unit conversions, programmable, etc.It doesn't do graphing or printing though.

author: clifford
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 06:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: creyc on November 12, 2013, 02:48:33 pmBefore you buy a new one, have a look at the SHARP EL-W506. It replaced the Casio FX-991 for me and I never looked back. (I think it is even something like 50 EUR cents cheaper than the Casio.) However: I haven't used it much in the last years as I am now usually in front of a computer when I have to calculate something or use Math Studio (that has quite good CAS support) on my cell phone.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 07:07:34 pm
content: I'm a big fan ofCalca for OS X and iOS. It's basically a simple text editor with a builtin symbolic calculator. It supports variables, functions, matrices, boolean logic and more.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 05:00:39 am
content: Quote from: timb on November 12, 2013, 07:07:34 pmNice, I didn't know it existed. It's very similar to Mathcad for Windows. Now I use SMath Studio on Linux, since I don't use Windows every day anymore, just occasionally when I need toSMath is actually a Windows program, written in C# and uses the Mono runtime on Linux.I wish there was a native Linux application similar to Mathcad/SMath/Calca. Does anyone know?

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 05:07:16 am
content: Generally speaking, at A-level and above calculators aren't used that much in maths - the actual numbers aren't massively important. What matters is that you know how to manipulate things and can demonstrate all the intermediate stages. A very basic scientific calculator will do all you need it to.I don't think I have seen anyone use the graphing capabilities of the "big screen" models beyond the first fortnight or so of ownership. Whatever you buy though, make sure it is approved for exam use. A-levels and University level maths related exams will not allow any programmables because of the potential for storing textual information to cheat with.My choice would be (is) a HP-35S. It isn't trying to be a computer or a 1990s mobile phone, just a good calculator.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 05:50:19 am
content: I've collected a few over the years. This is the smallest scientific calculator I've seen.

author: Rigel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 09:29:31 pm
content: My favorite calculator right now is TI-36X Pro. I just find it very intuitive to use. I also like that I do not have to change modes to use complex numbers.. The one exception is for my microprocessors class converting between decimal hex and binary I use a Casio Fx 115ES. I purchased a TI nspire CAS, while I think it will be very useful and powerful, I am not allowed to use it on any exams So I am not spending anytime mastering its capabilities.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 12:54:14 am
content: Stay clear of the TI nspire CX calculators. They are fragile (up/down buttons are already going on mine even though it's rarely used and never dropped etc) and since it uses a Li-Ion battery, if you put it away for a month and then grab it to perform a calculation, the battery will be dead, even if you left it fully charged. This crappy calculator was obviously designed with narrow-minded high school market intentions.. It is not field capable

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 01:04:35 am
content: Quote from: olsenn on November 14, 2013, 12:54:14 amThat's a bit of a disappointment to hear on a flagship TI product, although I'm not all that surprised to be honest. The graphics and styling make me think someone spent a bit more time working on the aesthetics than the guts of it.Does anyone have experience or much of an opinion on calculators with CAS (computer algebra system) built in? It sounds neat being able to keep equations in symbolic form, but probably not all that useful in the real world?Prettyprint seems like another neat feature on the TI models, again I wonder how important that might be..

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 01:12:31 am
content: Quote from: creyc on November 14, 2013, 01:04:35 amI for one don't like them. It sounds neat in principle, being able to recall the last calculation and edit it, but in practice I just find the system cumbersome and slow. I far prefer the traditional old style of calculator where you press a key and something happens, which fortunately you can buy very cheaply these days.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 01:55:01 am
content: I use MAXIMA or wxMaxima which is open source Algebra System but it works only on PC not calculator. Sometimes I use MATLAB or Octave. Lately I started using simply Google search like thishttps://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=cr&ei=9iiEUuriKMW92wXL8YCIAQ#q=(12+nanoseconds+*+speed+of+light)+%2F2or thishttps://www.google.ca/search?q=1%2F(i*(10+mhz+in+rad+per+second)+*+1+microfarad)&oq=1%2F(i*(10+mhz+in+rad+per+second)+*+1+microfarad)&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.150090j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espvd=215&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=122&q=1%2Fi*(10+megahertz+*+1+microfarad)because it understands units very well.Biggest disadvantage of calculators is that it is hard to share your calculations like copy paste them into Email.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 01:57:22 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 14, 2013, 01:12:31 amHP 50G (probably 48G as well) allows symbolic expressions to be manipulated on the RPN stack. Once in a long while, it is incredibly useful.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 02:20:48 am
content: Pretty Print is, in my opinion, a requirement for CAS! The HP 50g has a equation editor which is sort-of decent, but beyond that, it sucks. The TI-89 (titanium) is the best CAS calculator out there, but even on that only simple equations can be integrated/transformed etc.

author: clifford
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 05:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: creyc on November 14, 2013, 01:04:35 amWell, I have really good experience with the CASIO ClassPad 330. I also do own (and have used) a TI-89, TI nSpire CAS (the non-stylus version) and HP 50g and preferred the ClassPad over them. But these days I'm using a computer (Maxima, Sympy  and Sage are good FOSS tools) for CAS stuff, or MathStudio on my cell phone if I don't want to use a computer.One good thing about the TI nSpire CAS is that there is also a PC (windows) program with the same engine. So you can for example easily write (TI Basic) programs on the PC and then upload them on your calculator. Also, the TI nSpire has good integration of CAS to the other programs on the calculator, such as the spreadsheet app. So you can for example easily create a table with a terms in the first line and then 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and so on derivatives in the lines below.But if you just want a stand alone CAS calculator I'd recommend the ClassPad. Mostly because modifying formulas, copying terms, and so on is really fast on the ClassPad with the stylus and the on-screen keyboard. When I was frustrated with the other calculators it was mostly not because the CAS engine was not good enough or it lacked some features but simply because it was tiresome to edit large formulas. I've never had this with the ClassPad user interface. SymPy is a library, not a stand-alone program. It can be used interactively in any Python shell (Ipython, ReInteract, etc.) or from Python programs. So if I'm for example solving a problem numerically and need the Jacobian of an equation system, I now calculate it directly in my code using SymPy instead of doing the symbolic calculations externally and copying the results over to my python code.

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 07:07:05 pm
content: Quote from: creyc on November 14, 2013, 01:04:35 amI used a TI-89 throughout my later school and my university years, and found CAS to be an essential feature then. Mostly because of the differentiation and integration functionality. Factoring stuff out or in was commonly used as well. While I did learn to do it manually, I just made a lot fewer mistakes, because I could check that I entered everything correctly, and trust the result.Another CAS feature that I came to appreciate was the physical units support. The TI-89 can do proper physical units (I'm talking centimeters, bars, volts, not just prefixes.) Again, it's a bit tedious to enter them, but for more complex calculations I felt it was worth it, because an improper unit at the end immediately indicates that a mistake was made.Nowadays as a software engineer, I find that I hardly need to do symbolic math anymore. The formulas I deal with are exceedingly simple, so pen&paper works. I keep a Casio FX-991ES at the office but rarely use it. I like it though because of three essential features: it's solar powered, has easily accessible unit (binary/dec/hex) conversions, and pretty printing.I really don't understand why they even make calculators without pretty printing anymore. Dot matrix displays are cheap, and every calculator manufacturer already has the code in house. And even if it makes the calculator a $ more expensive, it's worth it. I don't know any other feature that reduces the error rate as much. A good human-computer interface is key.

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 08:02:49 pm
content: Oh, I forgot the obligatory xkcd:

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 02:57:54 am
content: I realize this is totally a repeat for the old timers, but I just watched a cool tutorial of RPN entry:I have to say IthinkI can really appreciate how it works. Rather than type one big formula in and watch the calculator magically pop a number out at the end, instead with RPN you actually work through an expression logically, as you would by hand, but with the calculator handling the tedious arithmetic part as well as keeping track of the results as you move step through the rest of the problem.On the one hand I really like that a lot, and especially if you enjoy mathematics I could see why someone would prefer the RPN input method. On the other hand, being able to enter a big expression directly as it would appear on paper and have the calculator magically spit out the answer is certainly appealing from a different standpoint, as well. I know how to do the algebra and keep track of order of operations, but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to do that every time. Sometimes I just want the answer.So I'm torn between two very different machines. The HP35s, and the Casio FX115ES, which does some really cool things I must say. I may just have to get both eventually.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 03:01:59 am
content: Quote from: creyc on November 16, 2013, 02:57:54 amI find that RPN is infinitely better if I'm "doing math" - i.e., I know what I want and how to get it, and just want the calculator to do the damn arithmetic. And algebraic mode is better if I'm typing in an expression from paper. I don't do that much.....In fact, most people I know seem to simulate RPN with their algebraic calculators when they're "doing math":3+4 (enter)*6 (enter)sin(Ans) (enter)Except it's more limited because the "stack" is one element long.

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 04:52:08 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 16, 2013, 03:01:59 amThanks for your opinion, I guess the most difficult thing for me is trying to imagine how well the RPN system would work for everyday math but you're right, those problems usually tend to be simpler.I really like the concept of the stack, too. Are there any modern RPN calculators with a 2-line display that show the Y stack as well? I know the graphing calcs will show multiline but I'm not interested in graphing features.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 05:10:25 am
content: The 35s shows the bottom two items. Unfortunately, it only has a four-item stack, but that's usually enough. It also has an algebraic mode, numeric solver and integrator, and unit conversions, and is programmable (in RPN).Quote from: creyc on November 16, 2013, 04:52:08 amFor me, it's the ease of moving through a series of calculations as I encounter them. For example, I can compute the current through a resistor, then use a swap to turn right around and divide a different voltage by that, and so on. I can duplicate resistor values onto the stack, compute a voltage divider ratio first ("r2 dup r1 + /"), then turn around and use those same values, already pushed to the stack, to get the Thevenin impedance (1/x swap 1/x + 1/x).I never could get my mind to think in traditional expressions. RPN is more about simple commands than lengthy descriptions. I've got these numbers, now do this to them.

author: moepower
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 05:20:11 am
content: Hi,I like the old HP 42S from the late 80's early 90's. Mine is broken and second-hand replacements on Ebay are ridiculously expensive. So I downloaded a $1.00 HP 42S emulator for my iPhone which works a treat (see image). I like this because I frequently use phasors (no, not the ones on star trek) so I need to manipulate complex numbers in polar and rectangular form. This also uses reverse polish notation which I love.Anyone else use HP 42S?Cheers,Paul

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 06:58:59 am
content: Quote from: moepower on November 16, 2013, 05:20:11 amI have an HP 42S. Really nice, full featured, programmable scientific RPN calculator.Still works great. Here is a link to more info about it:http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp42s.htm

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 10:28:05 am
content: Wow, this thread's definitely getting interesting!I just bought my HP39GII, really like it, but I can't find the bloody software anywhere... Anyone know anything about this?

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 10:43:02 pm
content: Heh, this thread has made me buy a 35s just now. Unfortunately I'll be away until friday, so I'll have to wait a while until I get to play with it. I've been checking out the 35s since it appeared, but the price tag was always a bit too high for my taste. However it seems, they've halved the price recently.As for RPN: it's a lot better than classic "algebraic" entry that you get on basic calculators. However, it's also way inferior to modern math entry that lets you enter expressions just like they're written on paper, or some approximation if it doesn't have pretty printing on input. The Casio 115/991 does have pretty printing on input btw, it's nice. The only thing I don't like about it is that it seems to force display-results-as-fractions-mode, which means an extra keypress to get decimal numbers.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 10:46:48 pm
content: Quote from: Maxlor on November 16, 2013, 10:43:02 pmDo people actually use this outside of school? How often does an engineer just plug values into pre-written formulas?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:09:59 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 16, 2013, 10:46:48 pmAll the time?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:14:16 pm
content: Oh, fine, you win.What is that calculator?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 01:36:21 am
content: Ohm's law for one…

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 01:47:41 am
content: That doesn't count, you're not writing a formula, you're hitting 'divide' or 'multiply'. That's what I meant - I'm always working out fragments of formulas here and there, but they never look exactly like what's written in the book. I don't want to take the time to write it out when I can justdoit.

author: jonese
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 02:34:49 am
content: I've been using RPN for more than 20 years. It's to a point now that I have great difficulty using a standard calculator with an equals key.I usually screw up somewhere in the key press order and have to start over a few times. People look at me funny, so then I have to put their calculator aside and dig out HP48 emulator on my Android instead.Maybe it's just me.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 02:54:32 am
content: Quote from: jonese on November 17, 2013, 02:34:49 amNo, no, My TI NSpire that the school required is gathering dust. My HP 35S takes care of all the calculations now. I can't use a regular calculator, and yes, people do look at me funny.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 03:10:57 am
content: Quote from: echen1024 on November 17, 2013, 02:54:32 amI am rather accustomed to this.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 07:14:02 am
content: Whatever happened to Dave's uCalc? It really looked cool. I'd literally keep that thing on me 24/7! If he's not going to make it he should consider opening the hardware, I'd seriously take it up as my next project.Swiss Micro has something similar, the DM-15 (or 11, 12 and 16) which are credit card sized versions of the popular HP calculators of the same model. They run the original firmware (with bugs corrected) on an emulated Voyager processor. At $100 it seems a bit expensive, but still a lot cheaper than getting a "real" one from eBay. (I'd give my left nut for an HP-16C! I've got an original, first year 12C sitting here beside me right now which my dad used when he was a banker.)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 07:28:43 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 16, 2013, 11:14:16 pmIt's a little program I wrote. I made it work the way I find most useful in a desktop calculator.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 10:05:28 am
content: Quote from: jonese on November 17, 2013, 02:34:49 amNo, I've had it like that since shortly after getting my trusty HP-15C about 30 years ago. Still have it within reach on my desk.

author: rr100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 01:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: Maxlor on November 14, 2013, 08:02:49 pmYea, that's what I wanted to post too. And it isn't even 110$ across the pond is freakin' 178.71 EUR for TI 89 titanium and 230.55 EUR for a Voyage 200 (amazon prices). Really?I think there's a market for this just as arbitrary as is for diamond engagement (or wedding?) rings. If it's deemed to be a nice present for a student (at whatever level, I don't know) probably it will be bought each and every year in numbers. Other than that the prices and the lack of progress are quite disappointing.

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 02:37:18 am
content: Quote from: Maxlor on November 16, 2013, 10:43:02 pmThis is a bit annoying, for example when you type 1 ÷ 3 and press =, by default it spits out 1/3, rather than the decimal equivalent. This might be good for academics but real world tends to use a bit more decimals and approximations. You can hit the S<->D button to cycle through symbolic and decimals answers, but defaulting to the symbolic one can be a bit frustrating.Fortunately you can change this behavior pretty easily I've found. Go to settings: [1:MthIO]It asks how you want the results formatted, chose: [2:LineO]Now typing 1 ÷ 3 = produces the expected 0.3333333333 result. Hitting S<->D does take you back to 1/3 output, as well as 0.3 with the vinculum above the 3 to indicate its a repeating decimal, which is pretty neat.It seems this only partially solves the issue, occasionally the output is still displayed as a fraction first however. The only other way I'm aware of is to turn off MathIO completely and use LineIO from the setup menu. Unfortunately this would also turn off the natural textbook display features, which is why I first suggested using just LineO (output) only.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 05:51:08 am
content: So on account of olsenn's recommendation, I got me a TI 86 (€3.50 + shipping, so what the heck). It's a really good calculator. The best thing is that you don't have to mess around with menus for quick calculations. I had a Ti 89 a while back, and it the UI was just too overloaded with useless crap. The 86 uses soft buttons for almost everything, which is way faster than scrolling through lists or menus.The other thing is with the TI 86 is that you don't have to use the multiplication operator. This doesn't sound like much, but it saves so much time typing 2-pi-square-50 versus 2-times-pi-square-times-50.The TI 86 is also case sensitive. X and x are different variables, and the variables can be eight characters long. This is excellent because you can name your stuff descriptively and it makes collisions between variables unlikely.The unit conversion also works much simpler and with way fewer keypresses than on the Ti 89. Another feature that I use all the time.The programming language is pretty decent. For example, I wrote a small program to calculate timings/resistor values for the NE555 that comes in handy every so often:PROGRAM:NE555:ClLCD:Disp "1)find R or":Disp "2)find T":Input INP:If INP==1:Then:Goto findr:Else:Goto findt:End:Lbl findr:ClLCD:Prompt Tl,Th,C:Disp "F=":Outpt(4,3,1/Tl+Th)):Tl/(ln 2*C)->R1:Disp "R1=":Outpt(5,4,R1):Disp "R2=":Outpt(6,4,Th/(ln 2*C)-R1:Goto exit:Lbl findt:ClLCD:Prompt R1,R2,C:R2*ln 2*C->Tl:C*ln 2(R1+R2)->Th:Disp "Tl=":Outpt(4,4,Tl):Disp "Th=":Outpt(5,4,Th):Disp "F=":Outpt(6,3,1/(Th+Tl)):Disp "D=":Outpt(7,3,Th/(Th+Tl)):Lbl exit:DelVar(Tl:DelVar(Th:DelVar(C:DelVar(R1:DelVar(INP:DelVar(R2Interestingly, this calc can also be programmed natively in Z80 assembler. Just raw hex opcodes, though. All in all, this is definitely an engineer's calculator.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 01:15:41 pm
content: mos, I think that was a smart move. All the calculator you will likely ever need for the price of a cheap calculator!

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 04:05:24 pm
content: You can't go wrong with the TI-86! It is my all time favourite calculator, and I own a HP48GX, HP50g, TI89-Titanium, TI-Nspire-CAS-CX. I use the TI-86 as my main calculator for numerical calculations, and I use Maple (PC software) for CAS.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 05:11:31 pm
content: Yep, what I like most is that the more powerful capabilities don't get in the way when you just want to do simple things, unlike most "large" calculators. Simple things stay simple, as they should.One other thing I noticed ... the screen is really good. Very high contrast and excellent viewing angle. Easily readable even in very low light. And it even has an anti reflective coating, unlike my 500€ smartphone.I do have Andie Graph on my phone though, which perfectly emulates a TI-86, so that's handy to be able to use it even if I don't have the calculator with me.I'm starting to like the programming capabilities. It's easy to quickly write small programs. Here's a program that takes inductance, DC resistance and voltage and tells you the on time needed to store the maximum amount of energy in an inductor and the resulting pulse energy. I wrote this today when I was building an ignition coil driver.PROGRAM:INDUCTOR:ClLCD:Prompt L,DCR,V:V/DCR->Ipk:Disp "Ipk=":Outpt(4,5,Ipk:Disp "t=":Outpt(5,3,Ipk*L/V:Disp "E=":Outpt(6,3,0.5*L*Ipk^2:DelVar(L:DelVar(DCR:DelVar(V:DelVar(Ipk

author: rr100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 02:30:04 am
content: I've been using Maple since mid 90s and somehow is the one that folds best on my brain and when I need something (usually more math and less engineering) the programs or libraries I found are Maple.BUT.It just isn't free (in fact quite far from it). I don't want everything for free but I really want to have the tools available everywhere. Even if my pre-2000 license works and still suffice I still can't install it everywhere, at least not legally (quite important if we're talking company PC for example).I'm using lately Maxima which apart from being GPL can be really easily installed everywhere, including windows (which is not the case with some other similar GPL stuff). It even runs decently on Android (although of course for quick "scientific calculator" stuff isn't really productive). But for arbitrary precision and number theory it shines.And breaking news: mathematica is freely available for RasPi!!!!

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 03:08:01 am
content: Quote from: creyc on November 16, 2013, 02:57:54 amWell dammit if I don't know myself too well!

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 06:00:39 am
content: I *just* picked up a 35S the other day and like it a lot! The only issue is switching bases is a PITA and the letters for the HEX mode aren't labeled (SIN, COS, TAN, Square-Over-X, yX and 1/x are A, B, C, D, E and F respectively) and don't appear in either manual. Other than that it's super powerful, built with high quality plastic, very light and the keys feel consistent with a nice click to them.

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 06:27:07 am
content: I've barely scratched the surface with this 35S but I already really like it. My only wish would have been to put in thousands separator commas automatically as you're entering data, rather than after you hit enter.

author: ThunderSqueak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 10:05:13 am
content: I have a few calcs, some of the pros and cons of each.Casio fx-115esPros: super cheap, nice natural displaycons: not programableTI-85pros: cheap and easy to find at second hand storescons: slow when graphing complex anything, dim display (they are getting old)TI-86Pros: awesome display contrast, angled display, rock solid build, easy to program with z80 assembler, often cheap second handCons: not CAS, requires older transfer cableti-89 titaniumPros: CAS, high resolution display, displays things "naturally", usb built in, 68000 cpucons: expensive, display is not very high contrast, huge

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 01:45:06 pm
content: Crikey, I wasn't aware that the TI-89 looks so silly these days. Mine is still in the same case as your TI-86 there, looks much neater.What is it with manufacturers trying make scientific calculators more lifestiley, noone is going to buy them because they look nice. The classic boring rectangular designs just seem easier to to use.One improvement I'd like to see as far as appearance is concerned is not round corners or wavy keyboards or neon colored plastics, but a a high res (300dpi) display. You know, one where an integral operator actually looks like one, and where sub and superscripts are easily readable.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 02:24:07 pm
content: ThunderSqueak, that's an insightful photo. Confirms my impression that the TI 86 has the best display I've ever seen on a calculator. Do you happen to know what link cables work with the TI 86 in Windows 7?mojo, there are calcs that have libraries like that, like the Sharp PC-E500. Although those probably fall more into the class of BASIC programmable pocket computers.But IMHO, you're better off with a "naked" calc and just programming in the stuff you need instead of having to dig through endless lists of things you don't need every time you use the calc.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 02:41:37 pm
content: I'm ready to not do math!

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 05:34:25 pm
content: The question is: If you can keep only one calculator, which one would you keep?

author: ThunderSqueak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:59:23 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on November 23, 2013, 02:24:07 pmUnfortunately no, the ti-86 link cable will not function under windows 7, at least not the usb version that I have. I use it with a mac mini as the software does function with the old usb link cable and interfaces with the ti-85, ti-86, and ti-89. However, I use the usb interface on the ti-89, it is just a lot faster and the windows software is more user friendly.The display on the 86 has the best contrast yes, but the resolution on the 89 is MUCH higher. I wish that the 89 was in a more "traditional" case with an angled display but all things considered, I would keep the 89 if I were forced to choose. The fact that it has CAS makes it far more useful to me than the others. Also, the display shows the entered data in a natural format which makes it easy to spot if I have entered an equation in correct.Winner if I had to pick TI-89

author: ThunderSqueak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 09:23:49 am
content: Quote from: Maxlor on November 23, 2013, 01:45:06 pmThey do that to try to hide the fact that the calculators have not really changed internally since 1990. TI does have a few nice units with the n-spire line, however being a university student I stayed away from those. They "look" too advanced and tend to scare professors.http://education.ti.com/en/us/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-nspire-cx-cas-handheld/tabs/overviewBetter to just get the best calc I can that the professor will let me use on examsI alternate between the z80 powered ti-86 and the 68k powered ti-89 depending on what is allowed in the class.Displaysti-86 Display: 128×64 pixels high-contrast monochrome LCDti-89 100x160 pixel display

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 11:09:53 am
content: Quote from: ThunderSqueak on November 24, 2013, 08:59:23 amMy older (non-titanium) TI-89 uses the same case as the TI-86. Looks much more... serious. If the new look bugs you, maybe pick up an older unit on ebay?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 03:14:00 pm
content: TO be honest though, I hate Algebraic entry. I would much prefer a HP 35S.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 07:54:59 pm
content: Just came across this:http://icarus.ticalc.org/ti86.htmlZAC, an assembler IDE that allows you to write and assemble Z80 assembly directly on the TI86. Can't get more "programmable" than that.What other calcs are there that can be natively programmed in assembler?

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2013, 10:42:24 pm
content: Was still struggling to keep my HP32E, which I never liked as much as the HP21 I had before.Thanks to all praises here, I upgraded to the HP35S. I'm very glad I did. Its not perfect, where is the USB?But at his price... Finally batteries that last, no nicads. RPN, and tons of functions, and programmable.Thanks for the recommendations here!

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 12:23:36 am
content: I've got a HP Prime coming in the mail -- I guess I have an obsession for graphing calculators, haha, but I will compare it to my TI Nspire CX CAS (which I think is awful) when I receive it.

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 10:11:00 pm
content: I sent my new HP 35s back for repair/replacement. The minus key didn't work properly, it'd only register when pressed quite hard. It's not that big of an issue, but then I thought, HPs are famous for their excellent keyboards, what's the point of one with a half broken key?

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 10:30:09 pm
content: They certainly were, but when production moved to China the new manufacturers did their usual Chinese trick and started "optimising costs". Broken is broken though, no point settling for something that doesn't work!

author: creyc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 11:49:38 pm
content: I got an HP 50G recently with a  key that would only register with extra pressure so you'd semi-randomly drop digits while inputing data. THAT'S frustrating!That one got sent back.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2013, 12:23:08 am
content: HP are cheap bastards. There calculators are very poorly constructed and use cheap materials. I like their advanced capabilities... I just don't like the construction. Texas Instruments on the other hand makes their calculators like Fluke makes their multimeter -- build like brick shit houses.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2013, 06:01:33 am
content: I have some old TI calculators ( battery packs died and I did not get a wall wart so improvised one for one) with sensitive keys that tend to bounce. Can be a bit annoying unless you are careful.

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 09:31:52 pm
content: So I got my HP-35s back, they replaced it with a brand new unit. All the keys work now, awesome. I didn't have it for long before, but I already started to miss it while it was away.However, I got a more interesting device, a brand new HP-15c LE.The 15c was first sold in 1982, and it's siblings 11c and 12c started out in 1981. Turns out that in 2011, partly to satisfy a petition asking for a revival of the 15c, and partly to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the voyager line, HP did another manufacturing run of the 15c. The case is the same (they still have the parts, since they still make the same case as they did 30 years ago for the financial model, the 12c. Incidentally, that one is HP's longest running and best selling product ever.) The processor is different, presumably because they don't make the Saturn processors anymore. Instead, the Saturn is now emulated on an ARM, and runs 70 times faster than the original too. I'm not complaining about that. Memory is still the same, 448 Bytes.After playing with it for a while, I must say I'm amazed at what the HP engineers were able to do back then. It looks simple enough at first glance, but it's a lot more powerful than you'd think. While I'm not a huge fan of RPN, I must say that in this case, it allows a physical simplicity without reduce capability. As far as programmables go, I might even call it minimalistic. Add to that the very solid build quality and you get a device that is simply... elegant. Really not something I can say about any modern calculator, not even the 35s.Now, it's a very expensive device, I paid around CHF 170 for it, new. But I suppose it's really a collectors item these days, or something for an enthusiast like me. I did check prices in the US too. Apparently, they're sold out there (i guess the limited edition really was limited) and prices on ebay and amazon are already reaching $400. Crikey. So I bought two of themOne will remain in the sealed box for the time being. The only thing I'm worried about... it uses two CR2032 coin cells, and they're inserted into the device by default. Has anyone ever seen those leaking?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 05:54:05 am
content: They do leak after about 20 years, but the nice thing is the lithium inside is so reactive that it will not damage much. It gets a small pinhole and then the reaction seals the thing up again until the cell eventually falls apart.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 09:09:44 am
content: I have a HP-35s for something like 3 years now. Second battery. Mine was delivered in a real leather zipp etui. I like that very much.I have a HP-15C LE too. I use that in my lab. I have troubles programming it or use the solver on both. (that is my fault, I allway forget how and no 2 HP's work the same way or have comparable keyboard layouts) I like the 2 line display very much because I often use the X>Y function. If I had to choose I like the 35S more as the 15C. But 95% of the time I use an old HP-48G as main calculator.I have dyscalculus and a very very very terrible memory for numbers. I can not rework formula's, I know how but I allway mess it up while doing and a complete wrong fantasy answer does not ring a bell in my head.So the 48 is the best I ever had. The display with many lines is the most important for me. I have never programmed it but I do use the solver a lot. I can choose formula's and vars by a readable name instead of it is stored under knob x and I have no clue what the order in vars was. The 48 is big, has a padded zip holster, i like that too. I also have an emulator of it on this touchscreen laptop. I do not have the paper manuals because mine is second hand. And that is a shame, I have the pdf but I would like a paper one like I have for the 35s and 15C. I even have it for my (early) HP-35. I repaired a HP9100 for a calculator museum and he gave me this HP-48G because it was to new for his museum. I have it more as a year now and it is running still on the same batteries.But the downside is that 80's look , rather low contrast display, (but I can live with that) and it is very sloooooow. I hate that, I seldom use the graph function because it takes forever. That is also why I never looked about how to program it. I also miss a pi knob that does not need the >num function. The 50 did not make me want one but after I found out about the prime, a few days ago, I am thinking about buying on. It is a bit expensive because I only use a small bit of its functions and allready have 4 HP's. but it will have a manual on paper (I hope) and I think is will be faster, better display and a bit more user friendly as the 48.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2013, 06:27:22 pm
content: My HP Prime calculator just arrived! So far, my opinion of it is that this calculator is the most powerful calculator ever made; however, it also has several unforgivable flaws:Pros:* (Very) Powerful CPU. Extremely fast* Beautiful, high-res, colour, capacitive touch screen* Feature-rich (Laplace transforms, FFT, etc)* Excellent button layout -- especially for HP* Textbook (awesomely implemented), Algebraic, and RPN entry modes available.Cons:* Durability. All HP calculators are cheaper quality than their TI counterparts, but the Prime feels like a $20 Casio* Li-Ion battery will die in short time even with no use. No good for storing in a drawer until needed. Same applies to Nspire CX* Buggy. HP really needs to focus on testing and QA more before releasing their products. Hopefully, future firmware updates will improve this aspect.I have barely skimmed the surface of this calculator so far, but if anyone has any questions about it, feel free to ask them here

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 05:55:36 pm
content: On my 48 I can not understand halve from the English manual (I have not much problems with electronics related English, but math is a different story) Drawing graph I never do ( I do not need it and also because the "speed" of the 48) . I have a bunch off solve things programmed in it using the book but that's all. It is just the big screen and big stack I wanted. Last week I had to do a lot of the same calculations and was to lazy to start excell and as normal forgot how to programm the 35S or 48G (even with the manual I can not program the 48 but a single formula in the 35 using the book I can manage.) so I did them all manual.Then I found a emulator for the prime and played a while with it, reading the Dutch manual. And I realy liked it. It is much easier to operate. It has a usefull help function and the keys/labels are better to see under dim light condition as the 48G.I even had fun making graphs, I have no clue about sin/cos etc other then the basics learned at school long ago, but it is nice to play around and look for the graphs (without waiting 10 minutes to find out you made a mistake) There are also some tutorial/exersise apps. So maybe I learn some more math too.But to be short, this morning the post brought a package and now I can play with the real thing.I wanted a paper manual but this digital manual is not a scanned one and has a search function and that turns out to be more practical as a paper one (and not to forget the build in manual)About firmware updates, I'm a master in corrupting everything that is updatable. Is this HP PA4TIM-proof ?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 07:00:06 pm
content: The TI-86 and the HP-50 look so similar.

author: Frant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 10:58:02 pm
content: It's interesting how all the other calculators shown in the photograph look more or less like toys compared to the HP48. I really like that 80s design, it just sends the message: "This is a professional tool for serious business". And it was by far the best calculator at the time.

author: IceXcube84
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 08:47:11 am
content: I have a old programmable calculator from Texas Instruments.My granddad gave it to me for 15 years ago.Texas Instruments TI Programmable 57http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-57Still working fine

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 08:56:36 am
content: I have the Prime and the 48. My first impression from the 48 was wow that thing is huge. I only knew it thanks to some topics/forums and downloaded the emulator. I was repairing a HP9100 for a calculator museum and when he was here I just was doing some math at that app and I did not get it right. The next time he came he brought me a real 48. I liked it very much for two things: solver multiline stack. But its user interface was far from intuitive (at least for someone with no decent math education)And I thought it looked like a big toy thing, the 80's LCD, the plastic cabinet but it did not feel like a toy.The Prime does not look like a toy with the metal front.I'm not working through the manual and that is not bad. And playing with the graphing turns out to be very educational for me.It has a spreadsheet. My Phone and iPad have one too but I never use them because it is very time consuming to make a sheet.So I had no hopes for the Prime but this spreadsheet is realy great and just what I need. It has very need features that are easy to use.But it looks like all this modern stuff has a downside, while playing with an App the calulater went off, showed a sort of demoscreen and after that I could go bach to the app and the formula I was editing was gone (the screen that came up after the restart was a white with a formula in the middle and I think a HP logo but I'm not sure , it was there just for 2 seconds or so)It hope it is just a bug and not a fault in the electronics.A funny thing:I have the emulator on my laptop and use that opened next to the manual on my laptop to practice. The emulator giave a low battery message. Strange, it is just software but a minute later my HP laptop told me the battery indeed needed charging.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 10:05:07 am
content: In the meantime I got a TI 89 Titanium. The folder system for storing variables is really nice and keeps things organized, which is especially important when running programs. Each program can have its own variable space inside a folder. The symbolic capabilities also come in handy from time to time. The builtin RTC is surprisingly useful and also quite accurate. Too bad it doesn't have a buzzer or you could use it for alarms. The builtin USB port is very convenient, and it simply works both under Win 7 x64 and under Linux. The BASIC features are also somewhat improvedBut holy mother of god, the screen is bad. If you put it next to the TI86, it's ridiculous. Oh well, you can read it more or less, most of the time.The one thing that puts me off the newer color screen calcs is the battery lifetime. Sometimes the calc sits unused in the drawer for a month. It would really suck to pull it out, only to find out that you first have to charge the batteries before you can use it. The TI89 seems pretty good that way, my batteries are still on their first charge after a month, and the battery bar is still full.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 11:36:29 am
content: Talk about happenstance...I picked up this at the local markets for $2 (less the owner's handbook). The guy in front of me picked it up, played with it for a minute or two then advised his wife that there was a problem with it not adding up.. sure was, it's called RPN!This little calculator has seen something of life by it's condition, but it still works perfectly. There's aluminium oxide corrosion creeping under the paintwork and the HP11C sticker looks long gone. From a label in the pouch it was purchased originally in South Africa.It has instantly become my calculator of choice due to its character - they don't make 'em like that any more.and the HP11C owner's handbook...Well it came in the box with a rather used HP41CV I bought about 15 years ago (just because my original calculator for university was also a HP41), no idea why it was with a HP41. Just couldn't bear to part with the HP11C handbook over the years... go figure.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2014, 04:44:32 pm
content: QuoteThe update is easy to apply, and in my opinion, necessary! It will fix the bug you experienced with the calculator restarting randomly. Also now it won't crash when you try to evaluate an indefinite integral which it cannot compute (such as x^x dx). All you have to do is install the "HP Connectivity Kit" which comes on the CDROM. Load it up and it will say that a new version of the software is available; click "Yes" to download the newest version and once it installs, load the Connectivity Kit software again. If your Prime is plugged in, you should see it populated in the left-hand side of the screen. Right-click the HP Prime icon and select to update firmware... the rest is automated.

author: ThunderSqueak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 12:36:54 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on January 09, 2014, 10:05:07 amThat is exactly why I took that picture to show the 86 vs the 89I really wish that ti would just put all the good bits from each model into one calculator instead of finding a way to mess up each modelIt's old tech, you would think they would figure out how to improve it.The issue with the color calcs is that most professors get intimidated by them and won't allow them in classes that say they require a graphic calc.

author: leprechaun
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:07:16 am
content: For the RPN fans, how about the WP34s?It is a flash-modified HP-20b or HP-30b that collects all the best features of the HP-42s, HP-16s, HP-21c, HP-32sII, and much more. GNU licensing and various mods make it a fun project.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 03:38:33 pm
content: My calculators...

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 04:29:19 pm
content: I have 2 hp42s calculators (both working perfectly since new) and they are my go to calculator for quick work. Found a brilliant Android emulation that makes my Samsung S4 look exactly as if it was a hp42s (though they didn't manage to emulate the fantastic HP key click feel)I have a couple of algebraic calcs, but they are a pain to use since I have rpn burnt into my old brain now...Anything that requires graphing etc and I just use my laptop.cheers,george.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 10:41:44 pm
content: WOW! (But I prefer my FX-5800P that can run at least one year at one AAA 1,5V cell.)

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 04:05:00 pm
content: QuoteBut I bet it cannot solve Laplace transforms!

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 04:28:19 pm
content: when I was growing up, the hp25 was the bees knees. I could not afford one when I was a kid.now, its differentand they are sometimes for sale on fleabay. many are broken and many are 'untested' (special code for 'this wont ever work!' but we wont tell you that). if the battery dies and someone plugs in the ac adapter, instant death. I saw one ebay listing where the seller admitted he killed the calc but not in so many words (he connected the ac adapter and 'saw nothing' and so said that he was not able to test. I'm 100% sure he blew the thing up when he connected the ac cord to the calc, sigh).anyway, if you can find one that is known to work, its a great little old-time calc that has real soul to it (if that matters to some; it does to me). they can be run from a pair of AA's and while the old school small LED display is harder for older eyes to see, it reminds me of a time when things weren't EOL'd in a matter of months and when design engineers actually cared about their work.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 05:30:24 pm
content: What do you mean my SI units? Do you mean exponential held to exponents of 3 (I'm sure that is not the correct term)? Thus 12000 is 12E3 instead of 1.2E4. I've always thought of the 1.2E4 as scientific notation and 12E3 and the less common engineering notation. I think most TI calculators would do that....[a few minutes pass]However, I just checked my Casio fx-9750GII (a graphing calc I picked up for $25 on sale). I think it has what you are looking for. One of the menu options is engineering but instead of displaying 12E3 as my older TI would, it displays 12k and .001 is displayed as 1m. Perhaps that was what you meant. If so the Casio has it.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 08:48:18 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on January 28, 2014, 03:38:33 pmThat's very mature of you.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 09:27:02 pm
content: For me, there is not only one calculator to haveOne must have is the HP15C, RPNA second edition is out but it cost a lot.A clone is out as well, and a really good one in credit card sizeAnd the other one to have is the Sharp PC 1401They are cheap on ebay and sometimes in like new condition for under 20 EurosJust an amazing little machine and the best you can get for the money.Or look at the Sharp PC3150 with 4 line displayThese older sharps are out of the time, when there was a war on who had the best calculatorAlmost all new calculators suck badly.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 09:41:45 pm
content: speaking of hp15c, I bought 2 when the LE came out. one to use and one to 'hold on to'. they were $99 from a local HP auth seller. I now see they are STUPID EXPENSIVE on fleabay. yikes! they are not worth THAT much. nice, but not THAT nice. wow...I wonder how high the price will go? that only makes my 2nd one (new in box) worth more. maybe I could trade it for a new 4 channel scope, at some point (LOL!)

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 06:24:43 am
content: I too got a pair of HP 15c LE's when they came out. One travels with me in my laptop case at all times.Nice thing about the 15c LE is that it's really fast. I.e., no waiting on any little routine you might program in to automate some calculations. Plus, it's one of the cleanest, most functional keyboard layouts of a scientific I've ever seen. CF8 not withstanding...As much as I love (and use) my HP-41's, I don't let them leave the house. Plus, I have the 41 app for my iPhone which does nicely in a pinch.>>HighVoltage: Almost all new calculators suck badly.<<Here's a question. There are people re-flashing HP30 business calculators into sort of super-42s.http://commerce.hpcalc.org/34s.phpCool. So why in heck is HP cranking out lame calculators when they still own the microcode to the best ever made? The 15LE is pretty much just an ARM flashed into being a 15. Why turn out less functional stuff at all? They certainly aren't saving any money doing it.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 09:13:17 am
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on March 14, 2014, 06:24:43 amTo the HP15C LEI also got the deal at the time when they came out, bought two and kept one in the box.I was tempted already to sell one but then I said t myself ... its better I keep it.@HP-ILnerd >>So why in heck is HP cranking out lame calculators when they still own the microcode<<Very simple: They forgot to copyright their code and hardware and booksIt was an oversight on HP at the time, that they could not correct anymoreTI, SHARP, CASIO and all the others, put a copyright sign on the PCB and in the code and that is why you can not really find any clones of those calculatorsSpeaking of clonesBefore HP announced that they would bring back the 15C in LE version, a Swiss company started a clone.Shortly after HP announce the LE, they stopped but when they found out that the HP still had limits and some firmware issues, they continuedThe company name is Swiss Microshttp://www.swissmicros.com/They are credit card size and the firmware can be updated through a USB connection.Here is an early youtube video of one of their prototypes from 2011

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2014, 11:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on March 14, 2014, 06:24:43 amthat really is cool! I ordered the vinyl label and a sample calc to try that out. not very expensive and a fun project, assuming it works. will report back once I have mine working.

author: leprechaun
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 01:04:48 am
content: It does work and is even better with some extra hacks (USB connectivity and IR).

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 01:39:27 am
content: Ha, that modded HP calculator is pretty cool. Might just set one of those up myself too.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:08:29 pm
content: Is somebody familiar with this HP33s calculator? What is it like? Is it easy to use?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on March 18, 2014, 10:08:29 pmIt's awful. I have used it in competition before. No match for the 35S or 32Sii

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:25:52 pm
content: Yeah I second that opinion. It is almost like someone decided to make a calculator the most unlike an HP that they could.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:39:50 pm
content: I've been eyeballing the HP Prime pretty hard. I'm not a hard-core RPN user so the limited RPN support won't bother me; everything else about it looks awesome.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2014, 10:50:14 pm
content: The Swiss Micro 15C clones looks rather cool but I wonder about the durability of the bubble keyboard and the very high price is also a bit of a put off. I tried to buy a 34S from hpcalc but when I asked the guy a question about shipping he basically told me to go away, he wouldn't sell to me. If anybody has real world experience with either of these companies and their product I would like to hear about it.Yes, the HP Prime looks intriguing too and I have played with the PC simulator. Maybe in the future but I find my HP48GX emulator on my Galaxy SIII to be just to my liking.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 02:31:41 am
content: Quote from: echen1024 on March 18, 2014, 10:17:36 pmcompetition? how does that work?are you allowed to show up with an overclocked calc?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 03:02:03 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 19, 2014, 02:31:41 amIN certain mathematics competitions you are allowed a calculator for number crunching. There is one specifically dedicated to using your calculator as well. The 33S has poor support for imaginate numbers, etc...

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 03:34:17 am
content: so that's something like "man+machine" vs "man+machine" ?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 04:08:56 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 19, 2014, 03:34:17 amyes, yes it is.. That is where I developed my taste for RPN. Much, much faster than the overpriced TI things.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 04:32:13 pm
content: This is a very old test.http://www.texasmath.org/DL/TMSCA2013.pdf

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 04:39:18 pm
content: I never heard of calculator competitions, but I would have gotton into it when I was younger, most probably.now, the arthritis would stop me from doing rapid key-work. sigh ;(

author: leprechaun
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 09:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on March 18, 2014, 10:50:14 pmI ordered a couple of overlays and Harald's PCB with none of the attitude you describe. Just flash a calculator, it's well documented and easy to do. I don't believe I dealt with companies, just helpful, fast-shipping people with envelopes addressed by hand.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 06:06:21 am
content: High Voltage>>Very simple: They forgot to copyright their code and hardware and booksIt was an oversight on HP at the time, that they could not correct anymore<<But they built the 15LE! It may physically be a completely different calculator from the original, but is functionally identical (if much faster). As far as I know, these sold really well. Apart from the occasional guy making minis or reflashed variants, the big companies like TI or Casio wouldn't be caught dead making HP clones even though the may legally be able to now.Why make their clumsy less-functional new calculators, when the 15LE pretty much proves an updated version of an old calculator will still sell well, public domain code or no? The problem with their newer calculators isn't the hardware so much as clumsy design. Being good is just a flash away.I, for one, would be plenty happy to see a 42s updated into something modern. You don't need a special mode for matrices or complex numbers with that, it's a standard data type, like the 15, they are treated like any other number. Plus, it programs with an extended 41 instruction set, sans hardware extensibility.Hydrawerk, Re the 33s: I have a scientific calculator collection, and that's the one I traded to someone for an old wacom tablet they weren't using. It's clumsy. The "chevron" keys don't hurt operation, but they don't help either, and once you get used to it, you don't really notice the design aesthetic, so why bother?

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 01:51:29 pm
content: I love my TI-82 stats, they might be overpriced but i got lucky and got mine for 4$ almost new, at a garage sale.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 02:29:19 pm
content: A while back I tried RPN and HPs. It might have been better than the old TI-30 and what ever the non-reverse entry was but it isn't easier to use vs equation based entry as TI did starting with the 68. The ability to review and even edit the last equation you typed is huge even if it means extra key strokes. For quite some time I found the TI-68 to be the best calculator for me even if it didn't have some of the abilities of the big HPs or graphing calculators. Now I don't really know which is best but lets be honest, in most situations I will have a laptop or other computer near by. For me the hand held calculator is almost dead. I use mine only for simple calculations. Matlab or Excel handle the real work.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 06:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on March 20, 2014, 02:29:19 pmThats why the top end ones have been dropping in price over the years. I remember paying $220 for the TI Voyage I used through my BS in EE and now TI's top calculators as well as HP's are all around or under $150. They have gotten a lot fancier but the need for all that technology just isnt there and people cant justify paying so much when they are just trying to get through school.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2014, 12:17:32 am
content: got the vinyl labels in, today, for the DIY hp rpn calc projectthe labels were not hard to apply. took maybe 15 minutes or 1/2 hour at most.the hard part is flashing! I used an arduino nano (for its ftdi and its 3.3v out) but could just not get it to flash. not until I broke down and soldered wires (ugly!) to the back 4 pins of the diag port. only then was I able to flash. holding wires is just CRAZY. you'll hate it. don't even try that. just get wire wrap wire, a very very fine tip iron and tack solder some short pieces of wire there, that you can grab onto. then it should flash ok.its a cool little project. be sure you don't connect the wrong power leads (I think I may have; but I am not even sure anymore) to the battery terms and have about 118 fingers and 3-1/2 hands ready to hold and press things all at onceits really a clumsy way to do firmware upgrades, but its how HP designed it, can't blame the open source guys.before:after!

author: leprechaun
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 22, 2014, 02:14:39 am
content: Get Harald's USB board. Flashing becomes much easier. You could also try (and I emphasize try) to get a flash cable.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2014, 02:30:18 am
content: don't you still need to press and hold pins for reset and the reset button as well, with the usb board?I know the usb board is essentially an ftdi bridge chip, which I already have and used. I soldered to the rear diag pins so I didn't have to open the case up. the end effect was the same, I think, except my rear diag pins look ugly with solder blobs still left on them. no matter, the rear case door covers thatthe usb board needs cutting of the case to let the usb cable thru. not sure I like that idea, to be honest. I'll only flash this once.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2014, 10:16:33 pm
content: Quote from: leprechaun on March 22, 2014, 02:14:39 amCan you post a link to that?Quote from: linux-works on March 22, 2014, 02:30:18 amAny yea what would someone want to flash the calculator more than once for?

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2014, 10:27:14 pm
content: if I was extending it or debugging it or developing more code for it, sure, have a usb port. but for a one time flash for an end user, nah, not worth it.DO prepare to get pogopin spring pins if you want to flash it from the rear 6pin port. or, do what I did and just solder tack wires to the 4 pads you care about. still have to press reset button and front on/off button and its clumsy as hell, let me tell you.