Legacy AVR programmer options - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 09:04:14 pm
content: I'm trying to get together up backup hardware for legacy designs/products that use the Atmega8515, and I was researching the simplest way to flash these devices. By simple, I mean both in terms of hardware and software. The target hardware is out of my hands, there is no provision for ISP, so I have a separate board with a 10-pin ISP header, power input and a 40 pin ZIF socket to flash the chips before they are used.What I'm struggling with is, there are a number of programmers, but the more official ones (AVR one, ICE, ISP MKII etc..) do no provide power to the target, and although it is just an extra step, I'm unsure who is going to need this in the future, or how qualified they will be, so the simplest way would be if the programmer powers the target, that way they only need a USB connection, and don't have to faff about with power supplies.Ideally I wanted something that uses Atmel Studio (older versions, 6.2) as well as AVRdude as a possible backup. But the combination of drivers, operating systems (I'm "assuming" it won't only ever need to work with windows 10) and hardware means I have quite a few decisions and compromises to make.So, I'm left with the following:USBasp:- Doesn't work in Atmel studio. So it relies on one host interface. AVRDUDESS is a nice GUI but still.+ Works with AVRdude, almost all versions.+ Powers target+ Has 10 pin header+ cheap- Non standard way it handles USB, so no guarantees it'll work on any host hardware.- No enclosure. Again, I don't know if the folks using this will be actual engineers.Olimex AVR ISP MKII clone:+ Works nicely in Atmel Studio, but ..- AVRdude cannot seem to program the EEPROM. (this issue is what started me looking for other options, so perhaps an X-Y problem?).+ Powers target.+ Has a 10pin ISP header that plugs straight into my ZIF board.- Requires custom driver that windows 10 may override. This will probably just add another hassle on top for the guys using this, and it seems from the forums, many have had issues with it.AVR ISP MKII original (well, after-market):- No longer available officially. I can purchase one from hobby site sin the UK, but I don't know how "official" their driver support is.+ Works with Atmel studio (in theory)+ Works with AVRdude, although I haven't tried. Has anyone had any issue with it?- Has 6 pin ISP header, so requires either an external adapter, or internal- Doesn't power target. Again would require a quick mod for convenience.+ Has nice enlclosure with a standard USB B socket, so appears rather simple to set up (USB in, ISP out, done).AVR one:+ Works with Atmel studio- Has lots of adapters, and seems requires no less thantwoadapters (that come with it) to plug into a 10 pin standard ISP header.- Does not power target- Seems necessarily complicated considering it will only be used to program flash and EEPROM in a 20 year old device.A custom board and setup is out as the bosses want support available, which is obviously better if it uses off-the-shelf programmer rather than support from one guy.As always I think I'm over thinking it. The more complicated the installation of host software, drivers, and the setup of the hardware, the more complex the documentation has to be. I also don't like relying on one host software, but perhaps I should just stick to Atmel studio. They'll have to install 2GB software just to flash the devices, but at least its official. AVRdude would be nice as a backup, but finding hardware that works with both is proving tough.Any idea? experience? Apologies for not a simple question.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 02:49:37 am
content: https://www.pololu.com/product/3172?Has a real USB controller, provides target power, emulates STK500... You will need a 6-to-10 pin adapter...I think Pololu has been around long enough, with enough support and SoTA products, to be pretty confident about them as a supplier.Certainly worth $8 for the experiment...

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 08:27:34 am
content: Thanks for the reply.I hadn't seen that one, and although it doesn't have an enclosure, it does appear to side step potential driver issues by acting as an SKT500 serial port.I considered the Olimex ISP500, which does pretty much exactly the same thing (virtual com port), but review suggested it required custom drivers for the comm port to work - I'm trying to make this as painless as possible, so any programmer that appears as a com port should at least work with standard windows 10 drivers. The only downside with virtual com port based programmers is the user has to go to device manager to see what com number the device is, because Atmel Studio just lists all the com numbers, not the ones available.And as you said though, for the price, its worth getting and testing.Have you used the AVR ISP MKII with windows 10? Googling the forums produces quite a few results of driver and firmware problems. There's a waveshare version, that claims it just "works" (as in, uses Atmel Studios drivers) but I haven't found anything in relation to windows 10.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 09:06:56 am
content: This one also emulates stk500 and is able to power your target.http://shop.myavr.de/Systemboards%20und%20Programmer/mySmartUSB%20light%20-%20AVR%20ISP%20Programmer.htm?sp=article.sp.php&artID=200006Used it a lot back in 2011 for the mega32.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 12:45:19 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 15, 2020, 09:06:56 amNice, that looks like the ticket. I'm trying to avoid virtual com port programmers that use the PL2303, because the prolific drivers are a nightmare. So CP2102 or CH340 are fine. Cheers!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 01:32:03 pm
content: I'm using the Diamex AVR-Prog (ALL-AVR). Works with Atmel Studio and avrdude, has 6 and 10-pin standard ISP headers, and is fast.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 06:20:07 am
content: Microchip is phasing out AVRStudio and AtmelStudio in Favour of their own MPLABX, which has gained AVR support. Support still isn't complete as the migration will take some time, but in theory the MPLABX IPE Programmer App should work with an PICKIT4 (the 3 won't do the job) and AVR targets. And yes, PICKIT 4 is capable of providing target power up to 50mA.fchk

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 06:27:21 am
content: For these legacy parts it's probably fine to get AVR Studio 4 from the floppy disks.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 02:13:27 pm
content: I've tested AVR studio 4.18, and Atmel studio 6.2 on a fresh windows 10 install - both seem to work fine, especially with the virtual com port programmers (bypassing USB driver problems). Along with The latest AVRdude I think thats enough software on a flash drive as backup. The former (AVRS 4.18) is much easier as one doesn't get hassled with project wizards - just fire up, connect to programmer and go.I have no problem with microchip, or the PICkit 4, but installation, and configuration of these purely to get 4kB of flash into a chip seems overkill, and makes the documentation harder. This would of course be an entirely different story for a PIC, although I would just fall back on the 'ol reliable PICkit 2 for that.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 12:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on June 16, 2020, 02:13:27 pmWell, the MPLABX/PICKIT4 way is the future. You most likely won't be able to buy the Atmel Ice at some point. And PICKIT4 was specifically expanded in order to handle not only HV ICSP and LVICSP, but also JTAG and the Atmel ISP, PDI, TPI and UPDI protocols. Microchip had to add two extra pins in order to do this. And the only software to install is MPLABX IPE from the MPLAB installer. You will get only the pure programmer app then, nothing else.PICKIT2 isn't supported in Windows 10, and Microchip might already have dropped support for it in the most recent MPLABX versions. Dead end.fchk