What Kind of Plastic is the Shell of the 2000s Apple PowerBook G3s? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 09:00:50 am
content: So .... I broke the shell of my PowerBook G3, again.Believe it or not, this is the laptop I use the most for writing, and for developing weird stuff with GNU/Linux for PPC.But I have the bad habit of keeping it on my legs when I'm on the train, and this... stresses the shell.And now I have two cracks, right where Apple put their logo, carving it into the bottom shell.Nice to look at, these two logos, but they introduces structural weaknesses.I would like to try filling the cut with plastic or resin, sand it, weld it to the rest of the body with "repair plastic" or resin, finely scratch and repaint the whole thing.But what Kind of Plastic is the Shell. I don't know ...Yes, I could buy a replacement, but this is the third time I have the same problem:I would like to try to reinforce the chassis.There is a similar problem also on the upper chassis of theThinkPad X61. In this case not because there are "logos" carved, but because the plastic of the left palm rest is too thin. They did it this way to make "room" for two PCMCIA cards.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 09:08:10 am
content: (I opened a topic in this section of the forum because this is a 25 year old laptop.I think that's enough to be considered "vintage")

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 09:52:34 am
content: Do you mean a Pismo, introduced January 9, 2001?That's the only PowerBook G3 introduced in the 2000s.Unless you mean an iBook, first model introduced July 1999, and sold until May 2006.A "2000s" G3 is much more likely to be an iBook than a PowerBook, but they have I think different kinds of plastic. Indeed I suspect the May 2001 and later 500+ MHz conventionally-shaped ones are a different plastic to the early clamshell ones, though more similar to them than to a PowerBook.However the generic answer for all the above is "polycarbonate".

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 12:52:00 pm
content: different produt, probably different kind of plastic:iMac G3 bondi blue what kind of plastic is the shell?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 01:02:40 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 07, 2025, 09:52:34 amYes, PowerBook G3 Pismo/400Mhz

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 01:15:02 pm
content: PowerBook G3, Kanga (old world), November 1997 -> never seen one in person, never touched onePowerBook G3, Wallstreet/1 (old world), August 1998 -> never seen one in person, never touched onePowerBook G3, Wallstreet/2 (old world), August 1998 -> I have little experience with itPowerBook G3, Lombard (new world), May 1999 -> I have little experience with itPowerBook G3, Pismo (new world), February 2000 -> my everyday GNU/Linux PPC laptop, 2x512Mbyte ram, 10GB HDD, PPC750@400MhzPowerBook G3, Pismo/500Mhz (new world), January 2001 -> I don't know if this is just a CPU-module upgrade or a total overhaul of the laptopWhat do I know?Well, except the first two { Kanga, Wallstreet/1 } , which I don't know, the others are that use the same LCD panel, there are two different manufacturers, but they use the same connector. However, there are mechanical differences between the panel used in the wallstreet compared to the one used in the lombard and pismoLombard and Pismo use the exact same panel.The keyboards are all different. They have a different connector.I don't know about the plastics of the body. At first glance they seem to be made of the same plasticold world: machine unable to boot macOS10, GNU/linux boots from MacOS9new world: machine able to boot macOS10, GNU/linux boots from OF/Yaboot

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 01:47:45 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 07, 2025, 01:15:02 pmWell, that's not right.I still have one of these...https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g3/specs/powerbook_g3_266.html... and as noted there it installs and runs OS X 10.2.8 no problems.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 08:56:42 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 07, 2025, 01:47:45 pmUmm, the problem is the firmware.The Old World ROM usually boots to "Toolbox" using a boot loader from "inside MacOS".This fixes a lot of stuff, since in the Old World ROM the dev enumeration has limitations and several bugs which must be worked around by boot loaders or nvramrc patches.I think it's "nvramrc-patched" MacOSX.I am sure that if you take the hard drive of a Pismo, and install it on a Wallstreet, macOS10.1 will not boot at all!It needs nvramrc-patches (or a fresh reinstall?), I know because I have tried it first hand!Booting GNU/Linux on a Old World PowerMac needs(1)PenguinBoot, which runs on MacOS9.OrbootX.(1) an execption I remember was the PowerMac 4400; I remember I wrote a script for OF, 20 years ago, to load the netbsd elf kernel directly.But it was terribly complicated, needed the console re-addressed to the RS422 serial line, and it was a script and OF patches written in Oforth anyway.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 09:58:37 pm
content: IIRC, the Pismo's shell is polycarbonate (PC).

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:43:02 pm
content: Whatever it's made of, my choice of repair material would be epoxy.The slow-setting type, not the "5-minute" variety. Slower-setting = stronger.Perhaps you could overlay it with something in the inside, say foil, to strengthen it (assuming you have access to the inside surface).

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 03:51:50 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on July 07, 2025, 09:58:37 pmWhat to use if you need to "fill" a "big hole" in polycarbonate?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 05:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 07, 2025, 09:00:50 amDespite a few (all recent-ish) claims that it’s polycarbonate, I’m nearly 100% certain that is wrong. Apple used polycarbonate for its translucent products, and in those they were fairly public about using it. The Pismo is based on pre-polycarbonate products, and its plastics were always brittler (and more rigid) than the polycarbonate ones. I’m pretty sure it’s fiberglass-reinforced ABS, but I’d have to do more serious research to try and find out for sure. I own a Pismo, but I don’t think they have visible resin codes anywhere.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 05:08:04 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 07, 2025, 01:15:02 pmThe last item there is a figment of someone’s imagination, as January 2001 is when the Pismo was discontinued, replaced by the titanium PowerBook G4. The 500MHz Pismo was released simultaneously with the 400MHz model. There was only ever one version/generation of Pismo.(I worked at Apple dealers in 1999, and sold dozens and dozens of Wallstreet 2’s and Lombards, as well as tons of Rev B and C original iMacs and later slot-loading iMacs. Plenty of Power Macs, too. I quit to go to college in early 2000, so I only got to sell a few iBooks and never got to sell any Pismos, but did buy one for myself!)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 05:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 07, 2025, 01:15:02 pmThey used several different panels; my Pismo’s display was replaced once under warranty, and the panel was a different manufacturer. IIRC the original was a Samsung and the replacement an LG, but it might be the other way around.You can still buy replacement panels of both types, though the listings do note that if you change panel type, you must also replace the LCD cable, as they are not interchangeable.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 05:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 08, 2025, 05:08:04 pmIn my area the Pismo/500Mhz was never available except a year after the 400Mhz version.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 06:04:29 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 08, 2025, 05:11:09 pmI am 100% sure about this: same LCD pannel(1), same LVDS connector(2), same inverter connector, and same screws, with the holes in the exact same places.In fact, when the little neon-tube of my Pismo LCD ran out, I bought the LCD of a Lombard on eBay, and mounted the LCD on the Pismo.No problems whatsoever. While with the Wallstreet panel, the panel itself works, but there are problems with the screw holes, which are in different places and do not fit.edit: (1) it can be made by different manufacturers, but it has the same mechanical and electronic characteristics, the same LVDS connector, the same 24bpp, the Same supply voltage as the neon tube. The cable has the same LVDS connector, but a different connector on the motherboard side, so it's not interchangeable.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 06:13:47 pm
content: Also askedhere. It seems it's ABSWhy do I care about the type of plastic? Because there are products specifically designed to fill large holes (like the Apple logo on the bottom), rebuild surfaces, etc.I need something that can be worked, primed, and then painted.So, I think I will take a damaged shell from eBay to do some experiments.I will definitely try heating it, burning it, and seeing how it behaves.Based on this, I will be also able to confirm if it is ABS or something else.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 06:14:33 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 08, 2025, 03:51:50 pmEpoxy mixed with some kind of filler (something fibrous would be good).

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 06:27:25 pm
content: my got to is bicarb of soda as the filler and super glue,sets rock hard almost instantly

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 06:34:38 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 08, 2025, 06:27:25 pmYes, indeed rock-hard, but not nearly as strong as epoxy.I know. I've got lots of experience doing just such patchery.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:16:16 pm
content: Methyl methacrylate adhesive has its advantages for plastic. I expect the bond will still be plenty strong and the polycarbonate would break first. With PC, however, you do have to think about crazing.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 07:41:24 pm
content: If you have not seen it, theLoctite Design Guide for Bonding Plasticshas an entry for polycarbonate. For half the tested adhesives, the substrate failed first.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:51:45 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 08, 2025, 06:04:29 pmYou’re misunderstanding me. What I am saying is that the Pismo (and Lombard, for that matter) did not use ONE panel type, but TWO: they sourced LCDs from Samsung AND LG. So two types of panels, and four different cables (Lombard Samsung, Lombard LG, Pismo Samsung, and Pismo LG). The LG and Samsung panels are electrically compatible, but are NOT compatible with the other’s cables.You can easily verify this by googling for replacement displays for Lombards and Pismos: you will find both display manufacturers, and in all cases, they say you either need to replace like-for-like, or otherwise also need to replace the cable.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:52:39 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on July 08, 2025, 07:16:16 pmBut it’s not polycarbonate.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:54:03 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 08, 2025, 05:59:59 pmNope. A year after the Pismo was released, it was discontinued and replaced (completely) with the PowerBook G4. They didn’t keep selling the G3 in some markets. The 400MHz and 500MHz were introduced simultaneously. Even if I believe you that the 500MHz version shipped later in your market, it would not have been a year later because it was discontinued then.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 10:06:19 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 08, 2025, 05:59:59 pmHere’s a MacworldUKreview of the Pismo, both 400MHz and 500Mhz versionstested, not just reported about:https://archive.org/details/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Apr_2000/page/n33/mode/2upAnd the issue 11 months later reviewing the PowerBook G4 titanium, which completely replaced the Pismo:https://archive.org/details/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Mar_2001/page/n35/mode/2up

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 01:39:39 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 08, 2025, 05:05:28 pmThat makes sense to me.The iBooks (both clamshell and later rectangular), G3 iMacs and the eMac are all very similar and polycarbonate.The black G3 Wallstreet, Mainstreet/PDQ, Lombard, Pismo seem like a different kind of plastic to me. Quite apart from the colour difference, it seems to me there is a big difference in the results of scratching them.I've still got a PDQ (ADB, serial, SCSI) while my father has a Pismo (USB, firewire). I've got an original iBook (was my sister's, new), half a dozen different colours of G3 iMac (orginal, smokey, green, flower power, blue dalmation) , two 17" 1.25 GHz G4 iMacs.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 06:53:08 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 08, 2025, 09:52:39 pmSorry and thanks, it was a long day and I overlooked that post. ABS also bonds well and can craze.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 12:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 08, 2025, 09:54:03 pmI remember it well, for a simple reason: if in my area the Pismo/500 MHz had been available, many would have purchased it instead of the 400 MHz ones.I was one of those.And I always suspected it was a revision. If they had been released at the same time, the motherboard and chassis would have remained the same; only the CPU module has changed, which will have a differently tuned PLL and a CPU that better tolerates the extra 500 MHz.That is, if you wanted, you could also modify the PLL of a 400 MHz CPU module and bring it to 500 MHz. Someone has done it on YouTube. But it's not very stable and gets a bit warm.My main concern was the heat shield. 100 MHz more means more heat. The 400 MHz heat shield is aluminum. For the 500 MHz one, I think it's better a copper heat shield.Anyway, in my area, the first PowerBook G4 Titanium appeared in late 2001, months later than Wikipedia says (early 2001) but I clearly remember seeing it on display in computer stores around November, and not before. I passed in front of the store twice a day, going to and from work. months later, and virtually no one bought it. In hindsight, they were right to wait a bit more for the aluminum PowerBook. Painting titanium is simply wrong, and with that design the hinges used would have clearly broken instantly.All defects that then appeared reported by users. Also, many people had spent a lot of money on the Pismo, which was incredibly expensive at the time, and there was no justification for an upgrade, perhaps a software advantage for the G4-optimized features, but there were complany offering "G4-cpu modules" for PowerBook G3.I remember the wariness stemming from Apple's complete inexperience with a material they had never used before: titanium!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 12:21:30 pm
content: What a strange marketing move, though. There must be a reason, probably related to unsold PowerBooks. Who knows... more than 20 years ago.... ah, at the time, an extra 100 MHz would have been very helpful for compiling.That's life

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 12:23:31 pm
content: I just discovered a nasty crack on the LCD cover too... oh sht

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 12:48:50 pm
content: I knew some people with a TiBook. They seemed pretty happy.I kept using the PDQ as my main machine (laptops were as fast as desktops until the G5 came out in June 2003) from late 1998 until the 1.0 GHz 17" G4 PowerBook in January 2003, a little over four years.Well, I guess that's not so long. I used a 2011 i7 17" MBP as my laptop until mid 2020. I did have faster (i7-4790K, i7-6700K, Threadripper 2990WX) desktop machines at home during that time, and an i7-8650u NUC carried around the world for a while in 2018-2020 too.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 01:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 09, 2025, 12:48:50 pmEven Chriss complained on a couple of his YouTube videos about the fact that the Titanium series of PowerBooks G4 have there problem of paint chipping off.Ok, pain is an aesthetic issue, not a functional one, although it's very annoying, as - personally - painting titanium is something I don't even do on racing bikes. I bought a couple of bike frames and used a steel-bristled toothbrush to remove all the paint, which literally flaked off at the touch.Painting Titanium is not necessary. Titanium doesn't oxidize with atmospheric oxygen, it has its own natural protection, and if you don't like the dark color, you can always electrochemically treat it to obtain a "chrome-like" surface, and if you don't like the "chrome-like effect" (which I'm sure is inconvenient on a laptop because it creates a mirror-like effect), then you can dull it with a simple fine-grit brushing.It requires a lot of labor, but it's very doable, I think it can also be automated in a production process, and I don't think it's a design issue. On the contrary... Apple insisted insisted on using paint at all costs. RevB, still painted Titanium.Hinges are *THE* big problem. They break. Unless they're greased from time to time.There's the exact same problem with the Wallstreet hinges.It's not a common problem, because even the hinges on laptops like the Olivetti Philos (486DX2 laptop, a much older design) have the exact same problem, made worse by the fact that they're "anchored" to a frame that can't tolerate flexing.What's the problem? Without grease, or with a grease that cements, they tend to seize. The LCD panel is very heavy, so it takes a certain amount of torque to lift the LCD module. Torque = Force * Arm, and that force is applied to the hinges. If well-greased, they do their job, offering a little resistance but then sliding. If they're seized, however, they apply all the force to the frame.If the chassis is like the Olivetti Philos, it cracks right near the hinges. On machines like the Wallstreet and the TiBook, the chassis tolerates flexing; there are metal parts that absorb it, so the excess force is discharged onto the hinges, which break. Much better, because replacing a hinge costs 15 pounds and takes only 20 minutes. Replacing the entire chassis, however, requires completely disassembling the laptop and costs much more.But I think it's all a matter of luck: the type of grease they installed, maybe it was dry, maybe it was good, maybe they stored the laptop in an unfavorable environment that dried out the grease, who knows... or maybe it's like someone who owns a ThinkPad X61S and manages not to break it because they never rest their "left wrist" on it because they only type with their "right hand", and they never rest their wrist on the only part of the chassis that has less support material and is therefore prone to breakage.Literally less plastic to make room for PCMCIA expansion cards; it's an ultraportable laptop; even half a millimeter less makes a difference.Than there is people like me who only type with their "left hand", let alone their "right", so they rest their "left wrist" on it and... structural failure is only a matter of time.-The TiBook keyboard is the best keyboard of all the PowerBooks!Except for the Pismo's UK/Japanese keyboard, which has much nicer plastic and a much more intelligent layout.It has to be imported from Japan, and is not made by Apple, but by a third-party manufacturer. It's incredibly expensive these days: a whopping €60 total, including import duties and shipping.It's a shame that the TiBook keyboard, which also has a nice connector, isn't compatible at all with the Pismo. Everything changes: the connector, the mechanical latches, even the keycaps.One thing no one knows is that 70% of the Pismo's keys are compatible with the latest Aluminum keyboards.(I can take a pic of this mod, if someone is interested)Unfortunately, not all of them, but only a good portion. You have to remove them, one by one, and replace them. Does that make sense? Yes and No.Yes because the aluminum keyboard keys are truly awful!No, because the latest aluminum keys have backlighting, and if you replace them with the Pismo's translucent keys... you no longer have illuminated silkscreen but the entire key is illuminated. Very annoying and not at all useful, in fact, this mod keeps the keyboard's backlighting off.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 02:06:58 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 09, 2025, 12:48:50 pmA friend just gave me a CPU module for my old MDD PowerMac G4, which I still use to compile stuff for PPC with GNU/Linux (Gentoo/PPC32BE).The crazy thing is that his Allubook has a 1.6GHz CPU, while the CPU module in my MDD is clocked at 1.2GHz.+400MHz makes a bit of a difference.He gave me a module - I think, but I'm not sure - produced by Apple? before moving to PowerMac G5.It has a copper heatsink and a 1.8GHz clock!!!+600Mhz!!!!I'll install it as soon as I have time. My MDD has been sitting idle since April. The power supply broke...(needs recapping, or something)

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 02:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 09, 2025, 02:06:58 pmI recall those things having stupidly loud fans!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 02:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 09, 2025, 02:22:12 pmWell, air-cooled G5s have fans that make much more noise.Anyway, I keep the MDD in the attic, I work remotely.It can make all the noise it wants.The fans are noisy but maintain good ventilation.The problem with the MDD isn't poor ventilation. I tried keeping the PSU outside the case, with extra fans, and it still broke. The problem with the MDD is the PSU itself... they used very low-Q capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors crack very easily.There are three options.I buy a cable to adapt the motherboard to an ATX PSU. It costs 80 euros, including shipping and taxesI buy a new power supply, which costs 60 euros.I disassemble the PSU, replace all the capacitors, check the MOSFETs, and see if that helpsI think I will try the last one, first.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 03:32:42 pm
content: p.s.900Mhz and 1Ghz PPC750 CPU modules for Pismo, likethese(not Apple products).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 11:03:08 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 09, 2025, 12:11:53 pmWell, nonetheless, the fact is that you are, without a shadow of a doubt, mistaken. Perhaps your local dealer chose not to stock the 500MHz initially.And the motherboard and chassisarethe same for both speeds. I have no idea where you got the notion that they’re different; only the CPU daughterboard is different.The fact remains: The 500MHz Pismo was not a mid-cycle upgrade, the Pismo released in 400MHz and 500MHz at the same time. This is not my opinion, this is not up for debate. Here is Apple’s own press release introducing it in February 2000:https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2000/02/16Apple-Unveils-New-PowerBook-The-Fastest-Portable-Ever/QuoteQuote from: DiTBho on July 09, 2025, 12:11:53 pmUmmm, you mean the heat spreader? Again, identical on both models. They don’t get very hot anyway.Quote from: DiTBho on July 09, 2025, 12:11:53 pmBullshit. The Pismo was an exceptionally aggressively priced pro notebook, which is part of why it was so successful. It ran circles around PC notebooks that cost way more.Here’s the original pricing, from said press release:Quote

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 12:00:40 am
content: Quotemight be cheap in us dollars,but when you convert the currency the cheapness disappears,and when i say converting the currency i mean just switching the $ for a £

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 12:08:01 am
content: Code:download/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Apr_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Apr_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Apr_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Aug_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Aug_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Aug_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Dec_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Dec_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Dec_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Expo_Issue_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Feb_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Feb_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Feb_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jan_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jan_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jan_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jul_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jul_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jul_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jun_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jun_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Jun_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Mar_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Mar_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Mar_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_May_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_May_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_May_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Nov_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Nov_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Nov_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Oct_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Oct_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Oct_2001.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Sep_1999.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Sep_2000.pdfdownload/MacWorld_UK_99_00_01_Mag_PDFs/MacWorld_UK_Sep_2001.pdflistCode:https://archive.orgurlIf anyone wants to download them, it's much quicker with a script. Here's the list and the URL.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 12:31:27 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 09, 2025, 11:03:08 pmLook, I don't care a fsk to be right; relax... I was just explaining why I thought it "might" be a revision.And by the way, Daystar completely changed the heat shield for the PPC7410@550MHz upgrade kits they made for Pismo!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 12:51:18 am
content: My boss had a somewhat unusual Pismo. He purchased a video editing kit that included:a replacement keyboard with colored keys, which mapped the special functions of the video editing softwarea PCMCIA card that exported the PCIa self-powered box with three 32bit-5V ​​PCI slotsthree PCI cards, one for PAL/NTSC video capture, one for MPEG compression, and one with several DSPsfive CD-ROMs with the software, PDF manuals, filters, and I don't know what elsetwo paper manuals in EnglishI don't know if those video editing kits have been updated for the PowerBook G4s.I've never seen anything like it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 09:37:47 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 10, 2025, 12:31:27 amWell you kept insisting it was a revision.Of course the Daystar G4 upgrade needed a different heat spreader,* the G4 is a much, much hotter chip!! The second-generation G3 chips used in the Pismo run exceptionally cool, so it’s no surprise the G4 can’t use their cooling.*Again, not a heat shield; it’s the exact opposite of a heat shield.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 10:12:45 am
content: If it's ABS you could plastic weld it. If it's a big hole then cut a patch from a sheet of ABS to fill the hole and then weld, or you could use the "wiggly" thermal clips used for bumper repair. Fill with a flexible filler (i.e. the stuff designed for bumper repair) and paint.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 10:25:37 am
content: Quote from: tookiOk I have enough, enjoy my ignore list.Seriously you are just full of shit

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 10:51:49 am
content: About that, I think I will make a copper one.edit: I just found out someone has done something similarHope he will share the design files. Then I'll need to find someone with a CNC to carve out a block of copper.I have no idea how much it costs.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 10:57:25 am
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 10, 2025, 10:12:45 amThere are about 3 cracks along the entire bottom case, and 2 cracks on the LCD cover, d'oh.The holes to be filled are approximately 40x40 mm. Apple inserted a white polycarbonate logo in each of those holes.It's not glued, it just fits, but cracks have appeared along the edges of the hole, so it needs to be filled because it's a stress point.That's exactly what I had in mind: using products and techniques from the automotive plastic repair industry

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 11:23:36 am
content: inflation-calculator, $3499 in 2000 will be worth $6545 in 2025.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 12:13:43 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 10, 2025, 11:23:36 amYes, but that was the normal cost for laptops in those days. I don't expect you'll find name-brand 400 and 500 MHz Pentium IIIs much different in 1999.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 08:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 10, 2025, 10:25:37 amNope. I know exactly what I am talking about and have provided, and can continue to provide, reputable sources (Apple itself) for everything I am saying.Quote from: DiTBho on July 10, 2025, 10:51:49 amYour screenshot is from iFixit, a community-generated website that is made by people who often do not know what they’re talking about.You know whodoesknow the internals of Apple products extremely well?Apple.That thing you and iFixit are calling the “heat shield”? It’s actually the EMI shield for the processor. Here’s the Pismo service manual from Apple:http://www.applerepairmanuals.com/the_manuals_are_in_here/PowerBook_G3_FW.pdfOn PDF page 58, it gets its own section, titled “Microprocessor EMI Shield”.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 09:31:51 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 10, 2025, 08:31:40 pmWhat a annoying way to discuss, especially the tone; if everyone calls it a "heat shield", even on eBay, and it's perfectly clear what the fsck they're talking about, why on the why you have to give a damn sht? and, about every fscking thing?This way you make nothing but annoyance.edit:I usually tolerate it for a while, but when I see people persist in this shitty attitude, then I really use the ignore feature offered by this forum - and now I'm including you in the list - because I really don't want to get pissed off on a forum.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 09:58:34 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 10, 2025, 12:13:43 pmThe point of my sentence was: if you bought a professional laptop in 2000, by committing a lot of money, we agree that it is not a small sum, right?, you have at least a 4-year amortization schedule before you can justify a new purchase.In my boss's specific case, there was also a software issue: the purchased licenses, not yet amortized, for things designed for MacOS 9, which ran terribly on MacOS 10!

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:43:17 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 10, 2025, 09:31:51 pmSmall point of order here .... if it's an EMI shield and not actually a heat shield (I think we can assume that is correct, given Apple's manual) then why would you need a different one for a hotter CPU?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 12:43:55 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 10, 2025, 09:31:51 pmSimply: I don’t want people doing future web searches to encounter a bunch of erroneous information that stays up unchallenged, resulting in ever-more people citing each other with the wrong information. That I became so forceful is simply becauseyouremained so forceful in restating the erroneous information. The difference is that (in addition to me having worked in that industry at that time) I providedunassailableevidence to support my claims.The Pismo never received a mid-life update, and it has a heatsink/heat spreader and an EMI shield. That’s all.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 01:02:17 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 11, 2025, 02:43:17 amThe CPU end of the heatsink assembly has two ways of dissipating heat: a heat pipe to a finned heatsink over a fan, and a thermal pad contacting the EMI shield, using the EMI shield itself to dissipate some heat. (Hence why I think it’s absurd that people call it the “heat shield”, since it does the exact opposite of what heat shields do, which is to insulate.) In some of the G4 upgrades, they weld a copper pad to the EMI shield, presumably to try and dissipate more heat through it. Perhaps they add the copper pad so that a thinner thermal pad, or perhaps even just thermal paste, can be used instead of the original thick thermal pad. (Just guessing, since I’ve never seen one of the upgrades in the flesh, plus many companies made them, so they weren’t all the same.)

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 11, 2025, 02:43:17 amThe term "heat shield" doesn't bother me. By combining the two terms that represent the component's functions—"heat sink" and "EMI shield".What hurts me is that people are not so stupid to think that "shield" + "head" are used in "laptop" to describe a heat-insulating ceramic tile, like those on the Space Shuttle or similar to those on the Orion.On the contrary, being picky like this is just plain stupid, and insulting those who provide free laptop disassembly guides simply because they used the term "head shield" is even more stupid.Respect for the folks at FixIt!After all, they've created excellent guides for free! Explaining how to disassemble Apple products!People on eBay rely much more on the terms used in those guides, which are are how I learned how to maintain my Pismo!And it was how I got my eBay search keywords for buying replacement parts.-Anyway, on Wallstreet and Lombard, it was also, in a sense, a real "heat sink."The PPC750 has a roughly 7-watt CPU, while the DayStar PPC7410 has a 14-watt CPU. Clearly, a completely different system was needed, no doubt about it. For the Pismo DayStar proposed two solutions, but only one actually works; while for the Lombard their solutions are simply all defective and not reliable.Apple had fewer issues with the PPC750, less watt means less heat problem designing the heat sink, which, as you well know, has always been a major "aesthetic design issue": where to put the fans? where to put the vents? Steve Jobs never liked them and always asked to "hide them from view."That's fine, up to a point. Then I'll show you a photo of what I mean, since I hacked a PowerBook, completely changing the cooling system.At around 200 MHz, a simple heatsink basically made with a "sheet" of alluminum that distributes heat over a bit are area about two-thirds the size of the keyboard is fine; at around 300 MHz, it's still "just about acceptable", but starting from 400 MHz, they need to introduce a different heatsink, with a heatpipe.That's why I've always been hesitant about the 500 MHz Pismo. When I push my 400 MHz Pismo to its max compling stuff, Apple's solution is "decent," but not "brilliant". In fact, if the ambient temperature is 25°C and I crank the CPU to 100%, the fan starts spinning at practically 100% and the laptop gets very, very hot.There's a "heat-collector" mounted on top of the CPU, connected to an "head pipe" that transfers heat to the actual "heatsink" located near the fan and vents on the left.The "EMI shield" now plays a small role in the Pismo. It covers the "heat-collector"(1), and its area can be exploited and improved, as Daystar demonstrated, to further contribute to heat dissipation.An extra +100 MHz (from 400Mhz to 500Mhz) represents a ~20% performance increase (not correct, but somehow it gives the idea), certainly making a system that seems on the edge even hotter.(1) In one of the two solutions, I don't remember which, Daystar made it in solid copper, soldering one end of the "headpipe" to it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 11, 2025, 02:05:19 pmHeat shields are not limited to space vehicle insulation tiles. Tons of products use heat shields; they’re whatever you use to block heat from getting into a particular place. Car engines, household appliances with heating elements, etc…Combining words into a “new” word that a) is already an existing word, and b) where the existing word means the opposite of one of the pre-combination words is… not smart. But above all, it’s an existing word with an existing meaning.I don’t think people actually combined “heatsink” and “EMI shield”, though. I suspect someone actually thought it was a heat shield (to prevent the keyboard from warming up, maybe?), and then others blindly copied them.Quote from: DiTBho on July 11, 2025, 02:05:19 pmI didn’t insult anyone: I made a statement of fact. Most iFixit guides (especially those for old products released before iFixit was founded in 2003) arecommunity-generated, meaning that like on Wikipedia, anyone can make them. Some are excellent, some are terrible.Unlike Wikipedia, most people reading iFixit don’t realize that many guides are community-generated, nor that they can fix errors. So when people make guides full of guesses as to what parts do, what they’re called, etc., most readers a) don’t know it wasn’t created by an expert, b) may not be able to recognize the errors, and c) even if they do recognize errors, don’t realize they can fix them. In other cases, the content as such is correct, but not written by a native English speaker and thus full of language errors. (I’ve corrected some written by German speakers, since I can read their German version of the guide to figure out what their intent was.)I have seen many, many iFixit guides with mistakes. Sometimes I fix them.Quote from: DiTBho on July 11, 2025, 02:05:19 pmSo one can simply write “… the EMI shield (often erroneously called the “heat shield”)…” so that readers know of the alternative term, but know it’s actually incorrect.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 03:43:48 pm
content: This is the trick I was talking about.I redesigned the internal heatsink; this machine can run at 400 MHz at full load at a typical summer ambient temperature of 26-30°C without any problems!At the time, I didn't have the budget for a Mac-Mini or a Server, and I had to compile stuff all day, even in the summer, even during night. And it was a serious problem because the fan was always on, and it bothered my roommates at night(1)!With this solution, there's no internal fan; I removed it. There is only the external fan runs at low RPM, it sinks energy from the USB power (5V), and makes virtually no noise.It's a system that "should" dissipate up to 25 watts, which is more than ok, for a 7 Watt PPC750.There are several flaws:The fan collector isn't good designed. I had no 3D printer at the time, so I ... manually made it; it creates turbulence and isn't the best efficient solution at providing the best airflow to the copper fins that are supposed to exchange heat with the environmentI couldn't design the fins, so I found some pre-made parts on eBay, laptop parts, and adapted them. In that amount of space, you could build a much larger heat exchanger. Or you could reduce the dimensions and make something less "flashy"Internally, the heatsink hasn't been redone, so it's still aluminum. I just added a small copper cylinder between the CPU and the aluminum, which acts as a "collector". It offers a tetter thermanl resistence to the headpipe terminal I soldered next to it. I used a larger head pipe with 2 ways as it's the component that does all the work, evacuating the heatIt works better because it's over engineered, and I know, it looks awful.Worse still, with that protruding part, the laptop needs a custom-made "bag" with various reinforcements to avoid damaging the heat exchanger.As you probably guess, it's a "laptop" that I always left in my bedroom, as if it were a "server".The point is, Apple could have "copied" Daystar's solution for the Pismo 500Mhz, and I'm franklydisappointedto find out they didn't.I didn't have any tools, nor do I know/how, while they had the means, and the resources.(1) If I had the PowerMac MDD, I would most likely have been kicked out of the house, because as you noticed, it makes too much noise.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 08:52:39 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on July 11, 2025, 02:05:19 pmForgive my diversion here, and I might be completely wrong, but do I detect a joke here?Once, when riding a cable car in San Francisco, the "grip", who was entertaining his tourist audience, asked:"What's the crookedest street in the world?"Of course everyone yelled "Lombard Street!".But the grip came right back with "No! Wall Street!".[BOOM-tish](And ackshooly it turns out that Vermont Street is at least as crooked, if not crookeder, then Lombard Street)