PICKIT 3 What a joke - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 05:13:11 pm
content: Well after having some problems programming a chip with my pickit2 i decided to buy the pickit3 as a backup. So after finally working out where to get the standalone software from i read the readme file of the program folder which it seems does not need installing.It tells me that I have to reflash the pickit with the new supplied OS because they have (deliberately) made it incompatible With the standalone software. I will then have two reflash it with the standard OS if I want to use it with Matlab. What the hell are they playing at? So I fired up the pickit three programme which by the way is actually just the PICKIT two programme with three in the title bar. With the pickit collected the program files to start if I start the program with it disconnected and then tell it to carry out communication Once I have connected the PICKIT the program just locks. I am supposed to be able to reflash the OS from the standalone program if it worked if it won't communicate with the dam thing how do I do that.So basically it's just a great big con isn't it and they are trying to lock people into using the software that they want us to and cut out any other compiler because I don't use microchips own compiler and I don't want to. So I can take their bloody pick kicked three and shove it up there arses.You know that video microchip deed in response to Dave's well I tell you what the ending was wrong Mr D head is still firmly in control of the PICKIT development team!

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 07:08:36 pm
content: What is this standalone software you speak of? Is it something to do with MikroC? I know they have programming software for use with their EasyPIC 5 development boards. In any case any compiler will produce a hex file that you can use with ANY programmer. MPLAB can load this hex file and will speak directly with your PicKit 3.If I was you I would dump MikroElektronika's compilers completely and invest your time in something more user freindly.I use MPLABX 1.41 and CCS C and I've started to use Microchips FREE C compiler XC8. You can load a hex based project right from the front page/intro screen of MPLABX.I don't understand your objections to Microchips tools.David.

author: Baliszoft
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 08:17:02 pm
content: Pickit 3 even needs a reflash every time you change pic family (f.eg 16F, 18F, 30F, ...). I dont like it either, though i can use it with the pickit2 at the same time (working on 2 micros simultaneously).

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 08:25:45 pm
content: QuoteHuh? I've used it with just about every PIC under the sun from 10F to PIC32 and I've not had to flash it once! It just works for me. What are you doing to it?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 08:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 25, 2012, 08:25:45 pmyou dont see it but everytime you change the pic familly, it downloads a new firmware in the pickitit was already like that with the icd1 and icd2.look at the messages in the console of mplab.but there is nothing to do it's full automatic !

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 08:54:55 pm
content: Oh. Then so what? It's just a normal part of operation then. Having to load external firmware from a separate chip is very common.AllFPGAs do it. What's the problem with treating the computer it's plugged into as a part of the system, from which it can load firmware?

author: Baliszoft
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 08:57:41 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 25, 2012, 08:54:55 pmThat's not a problem, just a minor quirk. I am changing target devices quite often, and it is a bit frustrating that downloading pickit3 firmware takes more time than reprogramming the target device itself. Pickit2 does not do that.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 08:59:05 pm
content: FPGA's load it into ram rather than flash.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:07:38 pm
content: I have several PicKit 3 units and I like them.Simon, just use MPLAB and get on with it. Less whining and more programming man!

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 25, 2012, 08:54:55 pmWith the Pickit 2, the host computer basically sent pin-toggle commands to the adapter, which made it more versatile and generic, and usable by various third-party software. The Pickit 3 uses higher-level communications with the adapter, together with target-specific firmware. This makes it perform better, but you're tied to Microchip's tools.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:32:51 pm
content: It's working on my home computer (tried it at work before) but i have mplab installed so basically, yes i'm locked down. I don't mind microchips tools but I resent being pushed around.

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:34:47 pm
content: You're a couple of years late complaining about the PICKIT3.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:35:52 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on October 25, 2012, 09:07:38 pmWell it all looks a bit confusing to me, I just want to open the program, tell it what pic I am using and write code but i find that there are a number of files it expects me to setup. And which of the 3 compilers am i supposed to be using I got totally lost so just gave up. If they just said "THIS" is our compiler i'd know where I stand.MidkroeC isn't too bad, the interface is simpler so I can get on with writing code and not working out how the compiler works

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:36:23 pm
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on October 25, 2012, 09:34:47 pmI did infact make reference to those videos

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:51:20 pm
content: huh ? in mplab i have to manually load a htc.h header file so that the compiler knows the registers, i mean as dave would say they have to be shtin' me ! if the compiler does not know what the registers are how the hell will it ever work ? see this is seamlessly loaded in mikroC i mean how could i work without it.I'm looking at htec C, is that the right flavor ?

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 11:16:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 25, 2012, 09:51:20 pmSounds like you are lost.You don't have to load that, you can setup your own BSP with the mcu regs defined there instead if you like (or want to give them more functional names for your application).HiTec C was bought by Microchip, and is offered as part of their product lineup. I'm still using the old PIC18 Microchip compiler and have had no problems with it over many tens of projects, including networking code. I usually start with the base register include for the device I'm using and then abstract that further in the BSP header include.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 11:27:58 pm
content: I started using XC8 in MPLAB recently and I'm getting the hang of it. I've only ever programmed in assembler previously.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 11:41:56 pm
content: Ah, you young-uns -- you should have been around in my day.We had to grind away the top of the DIP package on a PIC processor, so as to access the tiny DIP switches inside then flip them to set the value for each byte of flash memory before pressing the tiny "program and increment" button with the tip of a pin.Ah, those were the days -- none of those fancy PIC programmers for us!PIC Kit 3? Luxury I tell you, luxury!

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 11:50:26 pm
content: I started with PICs with the predecessor to the PicStart+ programmer and the chips were only JW (windowed) or OTP types.A PicKit 3 and ICSP are indeed luxury.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 06:52:57 am
content: Quote from: RCMR on October 25, 2012, 11:41:56 pmhaha, surely that's easierWell I got htc.h loaded and now my register names are recognised.So which C compiler should i be using ? Hi-TECH or xC ?I've looked through the documentation of hitehc and I don't see a PWM library ? or ADC library, so I have to do it all "old style" ? fair enough, mikroC's libraries are pretty naff anyway

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 08:46:39 am
content: Quote from: Simon on October 26, 2012, 06:52:57 amYou'll find a few high-end libs (crypto, networking, usb, pwm etc) on the Microchip site. Simple stuff like uarts and adc you can write yourself, or use some of your existing code that you have developed.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 11:33:03 am
content: I suppose soI guess i should write a separate function and later use it as a library

author: JVR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 01:38:52 pm
content: Simon, dude.I beg of you, the day you decide to go on to ARM processors via the whole Eclipse/GCC/OpenOCD/JTAG route, place a video camera next to the PC before beginningI told you the KP3 standalone was not as nice. But as to it being the same as PK2, not so much. The PK2 used HID commands to program, so its a dumb terminal, hence no need to "re=flash" its FW between families, the PK3 is based on the ICD2, so it had a FPGA doing the work, and used a custom USB driver. So the differences are rather big.Download MPLABX, and the XC8 compiler. Install the compiler first, then MPLAB. Use the set up project wizard, or an example to start off, and you'll be in business in less than an hour. With a lot less fuss, simply press F10, sit back and wait for the micro to come alive.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 01:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: JVR on October 26, 2012, 01:38:52 pmhaha, you think the video camera would survive ? hahahaha, putting me in front of autocad lt without having a clue is bad enoughWell I think I am semi comfortable with mplabx I think I'm going to end up using Hi-TECH C, xc is microsoft shit I'm am told on the microchip forum - won't touch it

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 07:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: JVR on October 26, 2012, 01:38:52 pmThe PK3 uses a PIC24FJ256, no programmable logic in sight. It is supposed to be low cost after all. It also still uses HID for USB communications (still the best way to avoid the custom driver headache across all platforms), the difference is that the firmware programmed into the PIC24 has the programming/debugging algorithms for a particular target type built-in. So when you want to use the PK3 with a different target, you must change its firmware as well.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 08:53:03 pm
content: well surprise, surprise, there is a program that comes with mplabx called mplab ipe, and what does it look like ? yes, yes you guessed, another standalone programing software that clearly inherits alot from the original stand alone programming software. I wonder why, Basically you can't use a pickit3 without mplab, or you can trash it and make it emulate the pickit2 with a different but the same standalone program with 2 replaced by 3...... just to keep compatibility with pickit2 stuff because the public outcry made them.Naturally they are trying to lock people into using their own software, interesting how pickit2 has tottaly dissapered, hm is mine valuable yet ?.....Luckily I'm getting into mplab

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 09:38:00 pm
content: Not knowing anything about pic programing , and reading this thread I'm totally put of by it, if it's messing all of you up and you all seem experienced , what chance would I stand. there's two hopes , no hope and bob hope , bob hope is dead.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 09:41:29 pm
content: Well I'm just a beginner in programming too and I seem to have trouble getting to grips with it. You have to navigate your way through a combination of the device you want to program, the IDE you use and the programmer/debugger you use. People who are supposed to be teaching you and writing manuals have a nack for assuming you already know stuff, typically you get mollycodled to start and get treated like an idiot, then they suddenly skip something key and dump straight into programming before explaining how stuff is setup.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 09:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: M0BSW on October 31, 2012, 09:38:00 pmDon't be alarmed by this thread. Millions of poeple program PICs every day and have done so for over a decade. The tools are easy to use and the devices are easy to program, particularly with ICSP.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 10:44:17 pm
content: I agree with Geoff. PIC programming and using the IDE tools is the same as anything else. You need to do some research, ask questions and start simple. It's all part of learning. Sure, there can be some things that might frustrate you at first, but there's a shed load of help available these days thanks to the Internet.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 06:47:11 am
content: I think I spent a day wondering why my code was not working only to find it was a miswiring of the breadboard