Getting an old Philips Emerald PNP, possibly - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: lasses
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2021, 11:39:51 am
content: I stumbled across a local broker selling an old Philips Emerald PNP, that I'm considering purchasing. I was actually looking for feeders for my china PNP (an SMT460). But thinking about it, an extra PNP might come in handy and reduce the bottlenecks in my low volume but high unique parts count boards.The machine is sold as working. It powers up with no errors, it runs the warmup program, but component placement has not been tested.Looking at photos of the machine, I'm wondering:1. Shouldn't there be an up-facing camera between feeder bank and conveyor?2. Should I be worried about the loose cables in the foreground, lower right?3. Does anyone have words for or against a purchase like this, given that the price seems fair and that my SMT460 has prepped me when it comes to unintuitive PNP software.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2021, 01:23:25 pm
content: I think the machine in question is not fitted with the fine alignment camera, alignment is done using cyberoptics laser alignment on the fly, which is what those funny little boxes are on the head.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2021, 03:00:08 pm
content: I believe all the "Gem" series machines need 3-phase power. Do you have that available?These machines use a LOT of air, do you have that available?They are large and quite heavy (over a ton), can your facility support that? How about getting it through the door?Having now seen what can be done with flying vision, I'd never want to go back to fixed cameras. I think CyberOptics was an option on Emeralds, depending on when manufactured. If it is really a "Philips" brand, not Assembleon, that implies it was made before the spinoff, thus a fairly old machine.Jon

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2021, 03:05:49 pm
content: The loose wires seem to be for the air valves for the feeders. Somebody may have unplugged some to use the air command to trip some other type of feeder that requires electrical activation instead of air. I'm just guessing.Ask the seller what is going on there, he ought to know.Make sure you get an ANC (Automatic nozzle changer) with the machine. On some, like my Quad, they are a unit that clips onto the feeder rail, and so could be removed.Jon

author: lasses
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 10:48:18 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 31, 2021, 03:00:08 pmThanks for the comments.The machine is OLD, yes. August '99 vintage. But it's also cheap and comes with 50 feeders at apprx. 2800USD shipping included.I have the appropriate cool dry air, 3-phase power and the space needed.And I can aquire the assistance needed to get started from an old colleague who used to work Philips GEM Emeralds.The seller, unfortunately, isn't very knowledgable it appears. So not a lot of help there.Would anyone happen to know the dimensions of this machine without feeders?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 01:18:11 pm
content: A newer Emerald XII has a footprint of 1650*1408, I'd bet on it being that size or slightly chunkier

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 02:32:23 pm
content: Well, get the manuals from whatever source you can. I was able to learn enough on my Philips CSM84 from the manuals to be making boards in one week! The Philips manuals were quite decent. $2800 including shipping is an incredible deal!Jon

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 11:27:44 pm
content: I'd go for it! Those Phillips/Yamaha/Assembleon machines are workhorses. You can get additional CL feeders out of China starting from 50 USD for 8mm.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 04:13:04 pm
content: Quote from: Mangozac on June 01, 2021, 11:27:44 pmYes, my Philips CSM84 just worked, period! I had one conveyor sensor go bad, and the rotation motor commutator got packed with copper dust (not a problem with brushless motors) and that is about all that ever went wrong with it in 13 years of operation, other than stuff I caused by misadjustment or rough handling. The thing was built like a tank.Jon

author: Siriusx86
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 08:20:32 am
content: I can not find any specification for the machine.Do you know what is max height for placed component ?How it works with importing pick and place file ? I guess there will be some floppy drive.I am happy owner of little bit newer machine Assembleon and I can definitely recommend it.It is heavy machine and it took 6 people to get in production. We broke one pallet truckRight now I don't have any problems with bouncing parts even for 0201 parts.

author: lasses
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2021, 05:23:47 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies.In the end I couldn't decide whether I could justify investing the money and the time on that machine or not... and then someone else snagged it.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2021, 06:50:48 pm
content: Quote from: lasses on June 04, 2021, 05:23:47 pmOh, too bad! They are supposed to be very nice, I had great luck with my Philips CSM84, used it for 13 years, and eventually had to move up to a more accurate machine. (The CSM84 used chuck jaws for component centering, that has its limits.) I think you made a MISTAKE!Jon