Rant on poorly maintained highway - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: blueskull
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 12:21:28 am
content: I almost got killed today on my way to eat lunch!Don't know who is in charge of maintaining I-40, but today it almost killed me. My tires LOCKED in a trench on the surface, and steered me toward the left lane, which I would crash into a truck.The problem is, apparently the engineer who was assigned to maintain the road was not using his brain. The white line was incorrectly drawn previously, so instead of wiping it or sanding it, they dig a trench on the surface to remove the white lane mark, and they didn't flatten it after this! When it is raining, one can barely tell which is the trench and which is the correct lane mark until you locked your tire into it.Highway engineers, use your brain please!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 12:54:30 am
content: Wow, I am sorry I started this latest rant fad. Is it better than morally bankrupt threads? I don't know...

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 02:36:57 am
content: Wow, I thought you meant potholes or something but that's pretty horrible.

author: Melt-O-Tronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 03:19:49 am
content: Are US road crews responsible for the parts of I-40 that are in China?

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 04:42:07 am
content: Your tires were the wrong size then

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 05:28:31 am
content: Grinding seems to be the "normal" method these days for removing road-surface striping.Never made any sense to me either.Unless you consider that the grinding probably accelerates the deterioration of the road surface,and the people who do the grinding are probably the ones who will get the contract to do the re-paving.Of course here here in Badgdad on the Willammette (Portland Oregon), the previous mayor cratered theroad-maintenance budget, sold off half the maintenance fleet and spent millions of $$$ on green paintto show mentally-challenged bike riders where to go...Of course, now the problem is so bad that they are hundreds of million $$$ behind the ball, androads all over the country are approaching 3rd world quality. Of course the solution is to raise more taxes.Dunno how they ever afforded to BUILD and MAINTAIN all those roads for 100 years without those new taxes?

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 06:53:35 am
content: Road conditions are a major problem in the US.Some states stay on top of it, others do not.Arizona is really bad about this. They repave the interstates every year. Why don't they just rip them up and concrete them instead of asphalt? Asphalt can't deal with the heat in Phoenix/Tucson. The tar heats up, melts, the weight of the trucks and bigger vehicles compact the asphalt creating ruts in the highway. Makes for a dangerous ride. Pouring concrete with additives to help with the ambient temperature is far better. I would think that the expensive cost of pouring the concrete, would be far less expensive then repaving with asphalt each year.When I was driving semi for 2 years across the US, It was very obvious to see which states were better at road maintenance than others. You would think it would be standardized throughout the US, but it is not. But, then again, factors play a role also, such as the Heat in Southern California, Arizona, etc. that effect road conditions. As well as cold weather areas, such as Lamar, Wyoming, where it gets really freakin cold that your truck must idle during the night to keep your Diesel fuel from gelling up. The water gets into small cracks, freezes, and expands those cracks.While I was driving, I also noticed a crap load of potholes, from state to state, both on side roads and freeways/interstates. I also noticed signs all over the place asking to report any potholes.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 08:02:17 am
content: 30 years ago they started to do concrete replacement of major arterial roads here, and the oldest of them now need refurbishing, which is basically just a fix the broken bits approach. Most are still in good condition, though the first ones are a little hazardous if you are a biker as the grooving is in the direction of trtavel, and tends to wander a little so the bikes will follow the grooves. Subsequent ones use a groove normal to the travel direction, so no issuer, though they are more noisy.Funny thing is a concrete road is the same cost as a heavy duty asphalt road if you are building new, as you need the same underlays and compaction, but the initial cost is higher, while the concrete will only need maintenance at low cost for the first 20 years the tar will need major work every 5-10 years.Here the tar roads that are resurfaced have 50-200mm of top layer removed with a scalper ( some are 450mm of top layer, after a few refacings of simple lay on top) which is then reconstituted with new bitumen, tyre crumb and then it is relaid back down to keep the same kerb levels. You can do around 500m of lane a day with that, and the cost is much lower than simply putting new on top. As a plus the tyre crumb rubber used makes the bed quieter and harder wearing, as it flexes slightly.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 08:43:47 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on October 11, 2015, 04:42:07 amWhen they are under 10" wide, definitely the wrong size.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 10:24:14 am
content: Obligatory "you haven't been on Russian roads".http://www.ssqq.com/archive/vinlin27c.htm

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 10:36:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 11, 2015, 04:12:39 amI think you are supposed to mention the place where you live, not where you were born.Quote from: SeanB on October 11, 2015, 08:02:17 amThe way I see it a good tarmac has a much greater driving comfort than any other road type. This includes maintenance often, and it costs a lot more money. Germany used to make concrete highways but every time I went there all I remember was that that was the worst highway ever.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 12:33:46 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 11, 2015, 04:53:10 amThere is a neat trick to avoid that: get a proper car (with good handling) and hold the steering wheel while driving. That way it is easy to get out of such situations. The hole you show is just a minor one. If that upsets you then you seriously need to improve your driving skills!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 03:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 11, 2015, 12:33:46 pmThe standard of the road is still unacceptable. There will be other vehicles on the road such as bicycles and motorcycles which will not be able to handle such a hole as well as a car.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 03:56:49 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 11, 2015, 06:44:20 amAnd yet bicyclists still get hit because they think the rules of the road don't apply to them.They routinely shoot through red lights and cut off cars, trucks, and even light-rail cars.I guess with all that oxygen going into your brain you get a sense of invulnerability replacing common sense.QuoteNot around here. They have done nothing but go up.The problem is that they are spending the money on frivolous things.The government has lost their sense of purpose and responsibility.Quote from: NANDBlog on October 11, 2015, 10:36:57 amExactly! For the purposes of this forum nobody cares where you were born.But where you are located NOW is important for many discussions.Quote from: SeanB on October 11, 2015, 08:02:17 amQuote from: Artlav on October 11, 2015, 10:24:14 amI was quite shocked when we took a road trip from Migori, Kenya to Mwanza, Tanzania on the Sirari-Mbeya Road. It seemed like a typical dirt road (thankfully, we were not in a rainy season in early July). But every mile or two we saw what appeared to be a tall (3-4m) natural-looking "tower" of the reddish earth. And what appeared to be a small patch of asphalt "blacktop" paving on top.It turns out that the road was once a nice asphalt-paved road, but they just laid the asphalt directly down on the dirt, and 20 years of weather and zero maintenance have almost completely obliterated any evidence that there ever was a road there. The lack of maintenance was seen everywhere. You could see buildings, roads, etc. that were once very nice, but decades of neglect had reduced them to pitiful relics.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 04:14:44 pm
content: The tower is a termite mound, they do get pretty big. When the family was living in Zambia the garage was built into the side of one of them. the ground is cemented together with saliva from the termites, and is almost as hard as reinforced concrete on the exposed surfaces.put some untreated wood on the ground or some paper and leave for a month and there will only be an outer shell left, the resat will be gone. the nests can crack concrete floor slabs laid over them as they develop.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 04:23:25 pm
content: How did the termites get their roof so nicely paved with blacktop?The locals confirmed that it was the remains of the nice roadway from 20 years ago.Parts of the road were under "re-construction" and they were planning on laying asphalt blacktop back directly on the dirt again. I guess a new generation didn't learn the lesson from the previous attempt.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 04:41:06 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 11, 2015, 04:12:39 amMy vote is the country flag should be where you are so help can be directed to your general location. If we did nationalities then the flag would be meaningless. So in this case if the US flag was shown then we would know that the I-40 was in the US and not China (I still do not know if there is a I-40 in China but my guess is it would be in better shape)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 04:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 11, 2015, 04:00:09 pmFrom what I've seen getting a driver's license is a complete joke in the US. If I where you I'd find some 'advanced' driving course which teaches you how to regain control over your car when you get into a spin, drive away on a steep incline using the hand brake, driving with one wheel in the dirt besides the road and that sort of stuff. It can be a life saver but most of all it gives you more control over the car because you know where the limits and the dangers are! Also don't economize on things like brakes, shock absorbers and tires (read test results because tire shops are usually full of sh*t!). Better drive in an ugly car which sticks to the road like glue than the other way around.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 04:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on October 11, 2015, 04:23:25 pmEasy, the termites build the mound up by pushing the top up, so at the first time they popped off the road then vehicles would avoid the spot, leaving the rest of the roadway to wear but this spot of tar was untouched. Then as the mound built up the road deteriorated into gravel which went away with the rains. Those which were in the middle of the road were simply mowed down as they were built up, leaving only the edges to grow with the tar cap.Relaying with dirt underlay is typical, as it is cheap and you do not have to truck in too much expensive graded gravel underlay, and the politicians who are siphoning money off get a road that looks like something other than a track, so it looks good till after they have left to spend the money in the Swiss bank accounts. Would have been simpler to just put down gravel and compact it, but it would still be dusty. Cheapest aside from simply grading is to spray the dust with bitumen and leave it as a sealed dirt road, though it will disappear in the first rains.Lucky you were not there in the wet season, but were there in the dry. not summer or winter, but wet or dry so near the equator.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 06:02:11 pm
content: In Germany we have the opposite problem.For the slightest wave in the road, they will right away slow traffic down and you wonder what was going on.

author: Melt-O-Tronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 08:56:47 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 11, 2015, 04:12:39 amWe probably disagree on the purpose of the flag then. This thread is a good example; to readers, the flag implies your current geographic location so that the context of your comments is understood.Your English is very good. Kudos.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 10:00:55 pm
content: Quality of Road Maintenance is a broad combination of:-RequirementsWeather & ExposureBudget and allocation of funds/resourcesCorruption & payolaPoor or incorrect materialsReallocation of previously assigned fundsPoor planning and estimationPoor traffic damage foresightPoor construction methodsCost cutting in maintenance activitiesUnexpected events and mitigation (flood damage etc)That's all

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 11:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 11, 2015, 11:17:42 pmWould you like me to compile news clips from the local TV stations to illustrate each of my statements with multiple real-world, independently-reported examples?Here you go, knock yourself out:http://www.katu.com/http://koin.com/http://www.kgw.com/http://www.kptv.com/QuoteBush and Regan (and even Obama) don't control local (city, county, regional, transit zone, etc.) taxes. Liberal politicians with an insatiable appetite for taxes control them in my corner of the planet.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 02:57:03 am
content: Yes, and the chronic underfunding is a result of the politicians diverting the money generated by fuel taxes, that when they were implemented were to be used 'solely for the maintenance of the roads' into the general fund where it may then be blown on their pet issues and constituencies and thereby help to ensure their re-election, rather than on the roads it is supposed to go to. They then hew and cry about not having money to fix the roads, and needing to increase taxes to do so. The new tax goes towards road repair (for a while), then begins to disappear into the black hole that is the general fund shortly thereafter. Lather, rinse, repeat.-Pat

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 05:17:55 am
content: Yes that is a PERFECT description of what happened here.And furthermore it created a climate of "entitlement" for bicycle riders.An attitude which isn't doing them any good for road safety.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:43:14 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on October 11, 2015, 03:56:49 pmThat happens here too. Based on seeing how those bicyclist behave, especially in cities, I think the official number of deats must be false, too low.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:46:02 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 11, 2015, 06:35:48 pmNice videos, they could be used in that other tread: "Sick of Electronics, considering career change":-)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 03:14:02 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 12, 2015, 01:44:29 pmThe huge issue with bike used for transportation is efficiency. Bikes are neither green, nor environment friendly. When you go with bike, you are using your 10% efficient digestion system with your few percent efficient muscles. And there is a HUGE amount of fuel and trash being used for creating your food. It is insaneEat a big mac. Hop on a bike, and go until you used all the energy in it.Buy fuel for the same price, and see that you can go about 10-100 times more.Use the fuel which was used to make your hamburger, you can go about 35 Km.Ban the Bikes. People will eat less, and they will not become the fat cows they are now, when they stop cycling.Ban them (Belgium has 0,48 bike per capita).

author: CrashO
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 03:56:45 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 12, 2015, 03:14:02 pmYup. Just look at the Yanks. Country with the highest obese rate in the world and famous for cycling everywhere.Oh wait...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 05:56:29 pm
content: I often ask the NDC/NDM ( Never Done Correctly/ Need Dat Money), if they have found the spade they lost. Some of the older ones do get the joke.The joke, for those who are too young or not local, is that years ago they lost a spade, and are digging up the entire city looking for it.Of course, when is a road dug up along the entire length? Right after it is repaved. Then left that way, complete with the sleeping policemen, for months at a time. One department to dig, another to do whatever is required in the hole, like fix a cable or pipe, and then finally another to repair the road.Was fun when they went looking for a small water leak a few years ago, what was a simple leaking asbestos cement collar seal turned into digging up 100m of the city centre, working 24 hours a day, as the century old asbestos fibre piping kept on breaking as they tried to remove the packing from the collar. 3 lanes closed, a backhoe running day and night, scavenger pumps running ( did I mention I work at sea level, so this pipe is 3m down in the dune sand) and a massive barrow of excavated sand in the street. they eventually got to a valve with a bolted flange, so replaced 1m diameter pipe sections up to there.I complained our water meter was rusted through and leaking on the metro side, so they replaced it. Cue the same again going to the century old shutoff valve on the tap on the pipe. that still leaks, but not too badly, need new packing gland, which is still available off the shelf.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 05:29:26 am
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on October 11, 2015, 06:53:35 amAsphalt roads work OK in Western Australia.It is all in the mix---when I was a kid,roads melting in the Summer was common,but after BP set up an Oil refinery at Kwinana,we got cheaper bitumen,& the Main Roads Dept came up with a new formulation which didn't have that problem.Of course,in the "bush" people were grateful to have sealed roads.This is similar to how a lot of the Great Northern Highway looked from just north of Geraldton in the early 1960s!http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/6b/24/59/road-up-to-the-cape-be.jpg

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 09:31:37 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 12, 2015, 03:14:02 pmYour numbers will need some backing up as they are far off the mark, a quick analysis is here:http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/11/mpg-of-a-human/or we can pull some reliable numbers from reputable sources:http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/sports/road_cyclinghttp://www.withouthotair.comA human is around 25% efficient at converting food energy into physical work, and a typical embodied energy in food is 6x the nutritional value. So a typical cyclist is somewhere in the order of 20kWh/100km which is close enough to an electric car, slightly less than. Not the orders of magnitude you claim.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 09:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 11, 2015, 04:52:05 pmThis is not true at all. In US, issuance of driver's licenses is the responsibility of the DMVs which come under the purview of the state govt. So while I cannot say definitely what your personal experience has been; but when I obtained my driver's license the process was pretty thorough. The overall process is the same as in Europe presumably, where one takes a written test to obtain a permit, and than after a few weeks takes the road test. If I remember correctly, if you dont score over 85 on road test than you are supposed to retake and to be honest, you'll see many teenagers failing the test the first time around.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 11:29:07 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 13, 2015, 10:09:55 pmPerhaps in your country but that is not the case in Australia, roads are funded from general taxes and built for all forms of transportation including pedestrians, cyclists, cars, trucks, busses, etc. For instance its illegal in most jurisdictions of Australia to ride a bicycle on a footpath, here bicycles are not choosing to slow down fast traffic but instead the roads are designed so that all traffic shares the limited space. Different countries, different situations, but the maths above are still incorrect by a huge margin (in the wrong direction) and from a bigoted point of view.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 12:32:33 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 12, 2015, 01:44:29 pmI can think of many, many groups who are more fanatical and self-entitled than cyclists.QuoteI will give you the experience of my city, Tucson, Arizona. The city has had a long-term project of increasing the number of people who ride bicycles for enjoyment, exercise and commuting. A lot of this effort is the creating of bike routes throughout the city. In most cases, this is nothing more than painting bike-line markers on streets. In the areas around the University of Arizona and the downtown, those green areas that Richard Crowley detests so much were added to ensure that both bicyclists and car drivers know who goes where.When these improvements are made, it's as part of other planned maintenance projects. A couple of years ago, as a new city office building was going up, it was realized that water and sewer lines needed to be upgraded in that area, which meant tearing up the roads. When the roads were finished, the bike lines (with the green demarcations and crossing signals) were installed. So the cost of those upgrades was minimal, because it was built into a larger plan.There is a large bicycle/multiuse loop trail around the city. Its northern bound is the Rillito River, its southern bound is across from the air force base's northern limit. It's about 30 miles long. Thousands of people use the trail every week. That's thousands of people who are NOT riding their bikes, riding their horses or jogging along busy streets.Maintenance? It should be obvious that a bicycle doesn't cause any damage to the roads, certainly not in the same way as a big SUV does. Bike paths that are part of the streets are maintained when the streets themselves are maintained. Since that bike loop trail doesn't see any motorized heavy vehicle traffic, its maintenance costs are relatively low. Most of maintenance there is in the non-path facilities, such as the rest areas and dealing with vegetation (the same thing they do with the rest of the city parks).Now, it should be obvious that I'm a fan of this infrastructure. I ride a bike to work at least once a week (except for the height of the summer), which is 7 1/2 miles each way. It's great exercise, it saves wear-and-tear on the car and all that. But note. We own two cars, which are of course registered, so the state gets the value-based tax (which I doubt Tucson sees any of, but I digress). And even though I ride the bike once a week, I still drive four days a week, so it's not like I'm denying the state all of the gas taxes. And I drive a little sports car that gets shit for mileage. We own a home in the city, so I pay property tax, a part of which goes towards city road maintenance. So anyone who thinks that bicycle riders are freeloaders can honestly go fuck themselves.Maybe instead of sitting in their monster trucks as they drive a mile to the convenience store for cigarettes, they can go to any of the several excellent bike shops and spend a couple hundred bucks on a used bike and maybe go out for a weekend ride and enjoy themselves?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:04:51 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on October 14, 2015, 12:32:33 amLets keep it to engineering!Damage to roads has been estimated by various studies that all agree the relationship is superlinear:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_ratingThough other data suggests only a power of 2-3, looking from this perspective heavy vehicles are heavily subsidised in their use of roads. The extreme high pressures of a bicycle tire would make an interesting research topic, similar to heavy vehicles both groups use high pressures to reduce rolling resistance.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:15:39 am
content: Quote from: Someone on October 14, 2015, 01:04:51 amCycles tracks mostly degrade for environmental reasons - temperature cycling, ice in microscopic fractures, etc. Actual wear doesn't have much impact on them at all. In fact, they generally degrade faster if unused, because regular use keeps them cleaner.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 12:53:49 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 14, 2015, 12:28:38 pmWait, what? You do realize those people on bikes on the road are not just out for joy rides. They are commuting to work, picking up groceries, et al. As in, exactly what the roads were designed for and things they _have_ to do to get by. The bike lanes are not like a skating rink for recreation, they are for commuting just like the car lanes.Now, some people may enjoy biking, but some people also enjoy driving. But just like drivers, most cyclists you see are just trying to get from point A to B and using the infrastructure designed for that purpose as intended.John

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:27:39 pm
content: Quote from: jwm_ on October 14, 2015, 12:53:49 pmI think maybe he means that taxpayer dollars are better spent on other things like road maintenance etc rather than widening all the roads to create dedicated bike lanes. I can certainly see some logic in that.From a personal experience, my town has bike lanes on some of the roads where the county created it by re-aligning the road shoulders. On all the other streets, bikers share the road with cars. Now this isnt ideal from both the perspective of cyclists and vehicle owners, but I would much rather do that then pay higher taxes so that ALL the roads can be widened enough to create dedicated bike lanes.Its all about priorties, and the % of bikers in my town doesnt justify the added cost. Now, ofcourse, it may be a different case in someplace like bay area or NYC. I am just mentioning this because we had a very "lively" debate about this in our town not too long ago; and there was some name calling involved on both sides but eventually cooler heads prevailed and no drastic changes were made regarding this issue.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 14, 2015, 01:19:55 pmIt is like a flashback to 1950s urban planning. Since then we have learned not to build cities like you are describing. I would recommend you take a look at "The Death and Life of Great American Cities" or, more modern and on overall an easier read, "Life Between Buildings" books to see why we don't do these things any more and why bike infrastructure is important.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 04:21:56 pm
content: While a bicle and a HGV have the same applied pressure per square inch of road, think of the difference in that the cycle load is spread out by the road to the underlay by a very large ratio. the bike applies the load to a small point relative to the road bed thickness, so the deflection of the bed is almost unmeasurable. The HGV load is applied over a track greater than the thickness of the overlay, so the overlay has signifigant satress in it from this, and the flexing from many vehicles leads to fracturing or flow of the bitumen and gravel layer.Consider that here they pulled a HGV over that was 130 tons over the limit, loaded with 2 containers. Load limit her is 56 tons gross all up mass for vehicle and load, and the 20TEU containers are also rated for 22 tons all up load. Those 2 containers were offloaded off a ship by a container lifter, and handled by a straddle carrier, so that they did not tear out the lifting anchors on the top is rather amazing.As to driver training, that is sadly lacking, along with the poor policing of infringements and the graft in the driving test centres.This was yesterday afternoon.......

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 06:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 14, 2015, 04:13:28 pmThe ideas in the second book come from observations done in Italy. Copenhageners said exactly the same thing when the changes were implemented. We are not south europeans. It is cold most of the year. We will loose business because no one will drive to us. Now the pedestrian areas in the CPH are the most expensive parts of the city.Quote from: AcHmed99So what? Does that make them ultimately good only for cars?Quote from: AcHmed99If you think road tax and taxes in gas cover 100% the costs of roads you are hugely mistaken. If that would be the case all roads would be free. Moreover, it would be beneficial for governments to build more roads to get more money. I, not having a car, am also paying for roads in my taxes.Do you pay for treating people of diseases because you emit COx/NOx? No. This cost is externalized.Bike infrastructure is much cheaper than car infrastructure in the long run so the cost for you is negligible. Every person that takes a bike is one less car on the road (benefit for you), pollutes less (benefit for you) and cost society less (benefit for you).Quote from: AcHmed99Adding bus lanes, promoting alternative modes of transportation (bikes, park&ride, good public transport) is very much the only alternative for all-car traffic that is not sustainable. That is what you get if we want to keep the planet running.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 07:14:35 pm
content: Here in the states the dominant funding for roads is a tax on fuel. Makes sense because there should be at least some relationship between fuel use and road use. There are two big problems.1. The tax is a fixed value per gallon. The effective funding from this tax has eroded from inflation and from the improved fuel economy that has occurred over the years. Combined these have resulted in buying power that has been reduced by something like and order of magnitude.2. Road standards have increased over the years. Safety is improved, but it costs more per mile to make these roads.The combination is a starved repair budget and starvation on the new construction side.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 08:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 14, 2015, 07:14:35 pmAs I can see the fuel tax and other driver related feed covers only approx. 50% of the needed money in the US (quick google on "who pays for roads"). This does not include hidden and externalised costs on environment and human health. These costs are covered by the society at large. This probably also answers why OP found a nice hole in the middle of the road. Why don't you campaign to increase the gas taxes? It seems a reasonable thing to do in America. Pay for what you use.@ AcHmed99: The point I want to stress is that it is not ok to say motorists are paying gas tax therefore we should make cyclist pay for their own infrastructure. They pay already and they probably pay a lot more than motorists compared to their use.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 08:37:21 pm
content: Quote from: owiecc on October 14, 2015, 08:29:58 pmit doesnt work like that here. Major chunk of gas tax comes under the purview of the states; and while some states have higher gas taxes, some like SC have very low gas tax, hence you can see wildly different road conditions as soon as you cross the state lines.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States#State_taxesAnother thing to note is that most americans are very wary of new/higher taxes, and rightly so.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 01:09:33 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 14, 2015, 09:03:02 pmYou seem to have made a connection which does not exist, that link describes how the "Gas Tax Fund" is distributed to provinces so they can build all sorts of infrastructure including public transport and things unrelated to transport such as telecommunications, water, and recreational infrastructure. The report on a "study" (from a motoring organisation) in the other link simply takes some incomings and outgoings and compares them, but there was no requirement for the government to distribute those incomings directly on those outgoings. It all appears like general taxes are funding the road infrastructure in Canada.Interestingly from the Transport Canada annual report they claim a 7% mode share for walking and cycling to work, quite a high number.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 10:45:05 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on October 14, 2015, 09:03:02 pmYou're pushing the "I don't use that $THING, so I don't want my taxes paying for it" fallacy.You probably don't use the parks in your city, so I would imagine that you would be in favor of pulling funding for them, and perhaps even putting an admissions gate at each one.I know that there are many people who have grown children, or no children at all, and they hate paying taxes which fund schools. How do I know this? Simple: every time a bond issue comes to the ballot, there are certain zip codes populated by adult-only communities where the votes are always against those bonds. The shortsightedness of these people is breathtaking.Hey, look: I don't want my tax money going to fund stadiums for professional sports teams, but somehow the legislatures alway votes for these boondoggles.