Do companies actually ever tell you to bugger off, or do they discourage you? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 07:32:45 pm
content: Hi guys,I've been dealing with a few companies with a quite specific field of interest. Our target product is a niche, low volume system, perhaps 10 - 20 pcs. will be made if we are lucky.The system requires several specific parts, some mechanics... simply put a few bits and pieces that farnell does not stock, but catalog devices, and a few full custom parts.A lot of the companies I have contacted were very nice, we interacted, and all was well. However, several companies stood out, even though I have not been told to go away. Instead:One company replied for the first mail almost instantly, after some discussions the delay increased between replies to a week, then two (after prompting)... it didn't get better after that.One company (lamination) after gathering the requirement took their time (~25 days) and after being prompted by phone provided a quote that probably indicated that the items would have to be made out of pure gold hand machined by nude virgins on a tropical island and shipped back here by the legendary Phoenix on a string made from the Golden Fleece. Per piece. We know the price ballpark for the item in question and it's not even in the same general area. As such I assume it was a quote designed to discourage us and direct us elsewhere.Two or three ignored us completely, not replying to sent emails at all.One company was actually nice, we bought the two pieces we wanted from them. They consulted us, the devices worked, but when we blew one out and was sent for analysis, the delays (2-3 weeks between replies) came, questions like "Is there any ETA on the issue?" were ignored and the replies that came indicated that very little or no time was spent on the issue at all. Phone calls were answered politely, but I couldn't reach the guy that was handling the issue, because he was on a meeting... about six times so far. So I am waitingNow, none of these items are cheap. We are OK with that and we are willing to pay the prices, but we need to be told how much, if it is suitable for our needs, basically get the info we need - particularly when a datasheet is two pages long, has a table, no graphs and a "Contact XYZ for details" or the item is full custom. Basically, if I give 2k EUR for a bloody module I assume at least some support aside from the 2 page datasheet and a trade show pitch.I have no problem if someone does not wish to deal with us - it's a low volume, and if they are not into that, I'm OK with it. If you do not have the time our issue, I can understand. If my emails elude a noxious stench and you wish not to be contacted again, please say so.But what I've come to loathe is being ignored or kept in the dark and fed bullshit (the Mushroom treatment).My question is this: Is this standard industry practice? Do companies never say No, but instead ignore you or provide deliberate obstacles if they do not wish to deal with you?I'm a relatively young engineer, so I might be naive, my cynicism gland is still not fully developed.Thanks,David

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 08:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 26, 2016, 07:32:45 pmThis. You may get in touch with some honest person on the other side, and they can admit what is going on in a private conversation, but no one will say anything in writing. Always try to get someone on the phone.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2016, 08:39:17 pm
content: It's likely that your first point of contact is in Sales. From their perspective, they have to look at the time it takes for them to define, quote, get Engineering or Manufacturing opinions, etc., and compare that with other ones that come in at higher quantities or potential sales.Particularly if they are on commission, then it can drop down the list very fast.A possible method that may or may not work, depending on how the organization splits up the roles, to ask for an "Applications Engineer" as opposed to "Sales", a "Sales Engineer", or something like that. Someone whose job is technical and salaried instead of sales and commission. It may not be easy to make that contact.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:46:23 am
content: I'd say the 'quote an outrageous price to get them to go away' is fairly common practice. Been on both ends of that one several times.Unfortunately, when you're on the supply side sometimes the tactic backfires because the client has more money than brains, and you get stuck doing a horrible job, albeit for shitloads of cash.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:01:57 am
content: Nobody likes breaking in a new customer - particularly a low volume one. I live on both sides of this issue. I get the same stratospheric pricing from new vendors that I approach for project parts. It's just the way it is.The upshot is that eventually you will find a vendor that is a perfect fit for you. Keep on searching.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:36:02 am
content: Quote from: HwAoRrDk on September 27, 2016, 12:46:23 amThis is not limited to the electronics industry ... it is found in many places. I remember talking to an insurance underwriter about the subject of premiums - and they told me the exact same story as above.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:45:11 pm
content: Thanks. I though as much.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:35:13 pm
content: Some companies I deal with are like that, and I take my business elsewhere. There are plenty of companies that are happy to have my business, both when it low volume and high volume. And then there are companies that are great to deal with but it just doesn't work out. They'll just politely say that there's no way they can do a low volume job like this for any price because they wouldn't even know how to quote all of the setup, material and labor costs that are normally just factored into a higher volume quote. If they're really good, they know people in the area that can handle the job and they'll hook me up with them.I refuse jobs too, but I always do it clearly and give a reason why. No reason to string people along.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 01:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 26, 2016, 07:32:45 pmMust be the same propability to ask restaurants to make a custom dinner for you "we are willing to pay the price but first say how much"Some will refuse, lie, ignore, accept.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 26, 2016, 07:32:45 pmUntil I changed jobs recently, I worked for a large Semi manufacturer (who has recently been buying up competitors as quickly as it can). Having been in a few different roles around this, the short answer is yes.My former employer was honest and up-front about their support tree: If you weren't blowing at least $100k/yr, we had a general purpose support line (Central Applications) or we could put you in contact with an appropriate distributor support person. A few of our competitors did the same, with the recent acquisition being known for having superb support for the guy who buys just one opamp.Now, other companies, specifically myopic ones, will discard you like old news paper or worse, if they cannot get an immediate satisfaction from "dealing" with you. There is no "long term" consideration, in good part because so many really small guys just never succeed. There is a certain kind of satisfaction derived from being the little guy they don't want to deal with, to some time later where they come groveling for your business because you're a larger entity. Moreso when you discard them in kind as they did to you.My advice is to be up front, no bullshit and as someone else said to get them on the phone. "Do you have a minimum order size for X product and do you sell to small businesses?" If they have a min order, or don't sell to small businesses, thats your answer to walk away. Quite often a lot of these niche operations cater to one main customer, or governments.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 06:29:37 pm
content: To be honest, a lot of the problem with the "new/unknown client brush off" is the behavior of new/unknown clients. So many of them are such complete flakes that one is largely guilty until proved innocent as a new client. You wouldn't believe the ridiculous claims of business volume I've gotten from prospective "clients."The best thing as a new client is to be honest about your needs. Once you find a vendor that is honest with you about their needs and expectations, you're on the way to having a valuable business partnership.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 04:19:22 am
content: I've not had this experience in the component supply industry, but I have in a couple of others - and there is one rather valid basis for directly applying my experience to ANY industry......... You are always talking to a person.I am in complete agreement with the above suggestions to be completely honest. If you know your stuff and explain your needs, you will usually get a fair hearing ... and an honest response. If that response is a let down, it will most likely be courteous - which is always nice.You may then be able to ask the person at the end of the line if they could point you in the direction of someone who might be better able to help you. I have done this frequently - and a number of times it has saved me from blindly contacting a dozen other inappropriate organisations. Plus, if you have had a friendly exchange, the person might give you some indication of how good (or bad) another company might be - plus, if they have the knowledge, they may even give you a name of somebody in that other organisation that they consider the best person to help you.I definitely don't try to BS my way anywhere. It can be an investment of a lot of time and effort that will come crashing down when the crunch comes ... and then you will be a popular as a flaming bag of dog poop.