Create 3D preview of your PCB design - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: digore3d
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 02:39:10 pm
content: Hi,I wish to introduce You my new website and service:www.pcb-3d.com.PCB 3Dis a website that offers a service of visualization of your curcuit boards. We also provide a rich library of 3D electronic component models for developing realistic preview of your PCB design. If some of the components you need is not currently available in our library we will create it for you in no time.Onwww.pcb-3d.comwe present two new electronic 3D models each day. You will also be able to download a .pdf specifications of all electronnic components housing.From the list of 10 models that we publish during the week, one will be free for download. You will be able to discover a new ones every time you make a visit to our website.Here’s how one of the models from our database looks like:Electronic models are available in STEP file format, that is easy to use in major PCB design software of today.So feel free to join in the comunity and give us some feedback on our support forumforum.pcb-3d.com

author: migsantiago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 03:16:41 pm
content: I like to download free 3D step electronic models from 3D Content Central.http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/default.aspxNo subscription fees.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 03:19:36 pm
content: Quoteso maybe after a couple of years it might actually have a useful range of parts... see you then.

author: digore3d
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 03:46:49 pm
content: @migsantiagoThanks for that info, we have also contribute to content to that website.By paying subscription fee on our website you have guarantee that our models are designed according to manufacturers standards and names are given on IPC standard, so you can find them easily. If you can't find exact component that you need, we will create it for you. And off course we are here to provide technical support if you have any questions regarding models.@mikeselectricstuffOur database has more than 600 components and it's growing everyday.Models that we are publishing each day are individual representation of single model, not a database that we are offering

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 08:37:13 pm
content: Eagle3D:http://www.matwei.de/doku.php?id=en:eagle3d:eagle3dKiCad: Build-inpcbnew3D Viewer:http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Image:3d_viewer.pngBoth free.So remind me, what is the point ofhttp://www.pcb-3d.com/asking for a $500 subscription?In fact, I consider thewww.pcb-3d.composting as hidden advertising / spam and will report it to a moderator in a minute.@digore3d If you want to advertise a commercial service, pay Dave for advertising space, instead of abusing the forum for advertising.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 08:45:57 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on January 05, 2011, 08:37:13 pmFor a lousy one subscription a month advertising price, I'll put your ad permanately up on the forum. 400,000+ views a month - bargain!Dave.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 11:18:19 pm
content: This is blatant spam, I' surprised this thread hasn't been deleted.Yes most PCB CAD packages offer 3D previews and some are free (KiCAD, Eagle) so goodness knows why anyone would sign up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2011, 11:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 05, 2011, 11:18:19 pmNot to mention that the component manufacturers are starting to offer 3D models for download these days, that's the way the industry is headed. So their business model looks flawed and doomed to failure.Unless however the subscription price included on-demand 3D model creation as they seem to imply, but even then that's the domain of the library manager at many companies, so I don't know many who would take it up. And then they get hit with the "please model every part in my new design" requests!Dave.

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 12:55:19 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 05, 2011, 11:18:19 pmwait, there is a 3D preview in Eagle? i have yet to find it, please do tell

author: digore3d
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 01:29:17 pm
content: Hi guys,I'm glad to hear your oppinion and to see your comments here, even if they are negative. This has showed me that people who are in electronics for fun and hobie are not interested in a service like this. I can see that we don't belong here, and should not advertise on this website.I don't wish to bother you anymore because I can see and understand that you're not interested. If you don't like what is offered you should not spend your money on it. Thanks for you attantion, anyway.No hard feelings* If moderator consider this message and discussion as a spam and not useful to anybody, feel free to delete it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 05:16:17 pm
content: Quote from: digore3d on January 06, 2011, 01:29:17 pmHe read out opinions that well he failed to notice Dave is the admin and would have deleted it long ago were it that offensive

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 05:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 06, 2011, 05:16:17 pmAs could you as well, how many moderators are on the forums anyways?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 06:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: digore3d on January 06, 2011, 01:29:17 pmYou've missed that lots of people here do electronics for a living not just a hobby and Dave's point about most companies employing a library manager to do the service you provide.Well if you don't like what you here you don't have to listen. Also note that we're actually being helpful: it's in your best interests to pack it in and try something else.Anyone here watch the dragon's den? It's funny how clueless people won't listen when they're told their crappy businesses making useless products and is hardly making any money isn't worth investing in and they should do something else.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 06:11:35 pm
content: Quote from: mitpatterson on January 06, 2011, 05:31:43 pmWell unfortunately I do have to work and sleep (plus eat from time to time) I got a spam report but by the time i got to it Dave had replied to the thread, I don't think a moderator need over rule the site admin, had it been a lone post when I got to it I would have deleted it

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 06:29:44 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 06, 2011, 06:11:35 pmwell yah, i still just lolz at it, its worth a laugh at least

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 06:35:45 pm
content: yea is a bit of an odd situation, Dave is obviously happy to let it run, the guy has been put in his place anyhow which is a little humorous

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 06:38:05 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 06, 2011, 06:35:45 pmand dave seemed to have fun with it offering him a ad placement for the price of the subscription the guy was offering

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 06:45:48 pm
content: we have Dave and 3 mods, however one is seldom seen around

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 08:26:41 pm
content: well to be honest bearing in mind I've not looked at their website but: why should one want an app just to have a 3D model of a PCB ? I mean 1 many pakages do it already, 2 well why bother, I mean it is cool and all that to be able to do it but it's not like it will be of great help to the design, yes it looks good to show the customer and maybe you want to model it into a 3D drawing of the case/overall project but to pay extra for it, hm someone definitely got the wrong business model

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 09:55:21 pm
content: I now think that not deleting this thread was the right decision because our responses will probably put people off subscribing to his site so his spam failed.

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 09:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 06, 2011, 09:55:21 pmexactly, mabey we should have it stickied, for lolz and put "what not to do to try and sell to us"

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 10:02:19 pm
content: well to be honest having seen some of the die hard spam posts I'm not sure about that, spammers seem to just not get it that just because they posted a link they won't suddenly get a boost in sales, most people spot spam and don't even bother

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 10:11:33 pm
content: The only time I clicked a spam link it took be to some dodgy porn site (you don't want to know) and I regretted it.

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 10:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 06, 2011, 10:11:33 pmlmao

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 10:21:03 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 06, 2011, 10:02:19 pmProblem is that even if just 0.1% of people took the bait they would have made a profit since spamming is so cheap. And considering that the actual % is probably greater than 0.1%...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 10:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: mitpatterson on January 06, 2011, 12:55:19 amEagle3D:http://www.matwei.de/doku.php?id=en:eagle3d:eagle3dA free third-party tool, generating input to a free raytracer from Eagle data. The raytracer then renders a 3D view of the PCB.Eagle3D, by the way, comes with a bunch of free 3D models for parts.http://www.matwei.de/doku.php?id=en:eagle3d:libraryI gave up counting when I reached 600 parts - and I wasn't even down half the page.

author: mitpatterson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2011, 11:12:08 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on January 06, 2011, 10:36:18 pmHave you ever used it? it tried about 2 weeks ago and couldn't figure out the raytracer stuff to save my life

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 02:09:21 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 06, 2011, 06:03:15 pmIn general, it's interesting to notice that the people who know the least tend to think they know everything and ignore comments to the contrary....I think smart people know that they don't know it all and are always on the lookout for new ideas and information.

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 02:54:19 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 06, 2011, 08:26:41 pmWhen designing electronics, an accurate 3D model of a PCB can be critical. I'm not overstating that in any way. Critical.My team and I recently had to design some electronics to fit inside a defined area. If we went a millimeter over the specified allowable dimensions, then our product prototype would be thrown out, and we would miss the contract.Then, picture one engineer designing the packaging, with all of the thermal and heatsinking requirements, and three more engineers each working on a different circuit and PCB which must fit within that enclosure and operate together. It simply wouldn't be possible without accurate 3D modelling, including the PCBs and external connectors etc.And don't forget, when you're paying an engineer over $50 an hour to make 3D models from a datasheet, it doesn't take too long before a service like this one begins to pay for itself, as long as accuracy can be guarenteed. About 1 working day, in fact.To be fair though, a hobbyist forum is probably the wrong place to advertise.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 04:13:14 am
content: Quote from: mitpatterson on January 06, 2011, 06:38:05 pmYeah, this thread is fun, I saw no reason to delete it.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 04:19:54 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 06, 2011, 06:03:15 pmI used to love the Australian version of this show, sadly it was canned after the first season.The guy with the colorful spiky hair was hilarious.I recon they should re-do The New Inventors and have prize money every episode for the best invention. Ditch the pussy panel they have now and get people on who will seriously tell them their idea sucks. I'll volunteer!Dave.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 04:45:37 am
content: Quote from: mkissin on January 07, 2011, 02:54:19 amGiven that companies like molex and tyco all put up official models and you can get many standard ones from 3dcontent central, the OP's business would rapidly diminish as people build up libraries. And Altium already have basically block modeling in their foot print creators.The OP is going to make, in the long term and borrowing a term that gets heard on Dragon's Den quite a lot: Diddly Squat.

author: comox
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 02:08:21 pm
content: My 2 cents:1. The embedded link in the original post is duff. I had to edit the URL to get to the site.2. I usehttp://www.labcenter.co.ukProteus for PCB design, which has a rudimentary 3D PCB viewer. I first wondered why the hell I would need it, but I soon grew to love it and now cannot imagine not being able to view a PCB with components in 3D prior to getting the board made. Clearly the product doesn't have a model of every single component, but it has a basic scripting language to quickly create 3d shapes without having to use a 3d editor. Take for example a relay: the model simply needs to be a cube of the same dimensions and possibly the same colour. With Proteus it is easy to script up such a 3d model in a minute.3. 3D models of populated boards are very useful in ensuring that components will not interfere with one another. Very important when making densely populated boards.4. The Original Poster should target his business as PCB design software companies as they would have the deep pockets to pay a 3rd-party supplier for model.5. The remit of creating 3d models for PCB software packages could certainly do with some standardization!6. Agree with another poster: many companies are publishing 3D CAD data of their components. Especially useful for connectors and such. Overkill for standard packages.7. What I think would be a good idea for the Original Poster, would be to offer a bespoke one-off service for 3d components. Altough I may not requier any of the 3d models on offer, I may wish for a custom model to be developed for a nominal price. This model could then be added to the existing library of models on hand. Also, I would expect the model to be delivered in my 3d format of choice.Comox

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 06:36:17 pm
content: Quote from: mkissin on January 07, 2011, 02:54:19 amIt looks like I'm on the wrong job, I'd love to get paid that for just drawing components on CAD and not doing any engineering.I think you missed Dave's point: you don't pay an engineer to make 3D models, you high a CAD technician for much less so the engineers don't have to do it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 06:45:01 pm
content: yea we have a chap at work who is just a draughtsman for when the others are busy or the md wants a drawing

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 07:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 07, 2011, 06:45:01 pmYeah you can usually find a fair number of job postings for them.There's also the fact that there are drafting standards that take some effort to learn and get right.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 07:12:20 pm
content: yes there are standards to drawings like in my field symbols that explain the surface finish and other "things" that are not purely dimensions or thread specs, I'm forever complaining about missing dimensions or not the dimension i needed forcing me to work out the one i need (not very helpful when your inspecting units and need to pay careful attention to the unit not reverse engineering drawing dimensions).But really if component suppliers are producing the models why would one use a third party model supplier ?

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 10:28:05 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 07, 2011, 06:36:17 pmSometimes, doing stuff like this is part of the engineering. For a small team, hiring an extra person to take on a job that you're only going to spend a few hours doing is going to cost you as much, if not more, than simply going to one of these one-stop-shops. You're either going to be paying your dafting person for a lot of sitting around, or you'll be paying consultant rates, which will make $50 an hour look very affordable.I'm not saying that this place is going to be the be-all-end-all of 3D component models, or even that it'll be any good at all. Just that you shouldn't discount something that isn't free, even when a "free" alternative exists on the web. If you download a 3D model from 3D Content Central, and it turns out to be subtly incorrect, who are you going to blame? Joe Blogs who made and uploaded it?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 10:34:48 pm
content: to be honest having the 2D layout should be enough, at the end of the day you know your component height. all you need is the part in question a vernier caliper or digital caliper and the dimensions on the model to quickly check it for youself.Like I say I'm not sure i see all the hype over 3D models, engineers have copped well enough for decades with their brains to generate a 3D vision of the finished item, it is something I have to do daily, looking at 2D drawings showing different views and getting an idea of what the item looks like physically

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 11:11:23 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 07, 2011, 10:34:48 pmSure, we've all been doing ok for decades without 3D, but once you have it you get spoiled and don't want to go back.It's not just 3D components though, using Altium the standard 3D view of just the bare board is so invalable now I would never live without it.Being able to see exactly what your silkscreen and soldermask is like etc. And you get that feature without having to make any 3D components at all.Dave.

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2011, 12:17:12 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 07, 2011, 10:34:48 pmIn general, I agree. It really depends on how complex the design is though, and how many people are working on various pieces of it.As an example, imagine you have two PCBs that need to fit vertically inside the walls of an enclosure, with the component sides facing eah other. There's only 30mm between the PCB surfaces, and both PCBs contain several components that may be greater than 20mm tall. The location and exact height of those components suddenly became absolutely critical to the entire thing fitting together.OK, it's a slightly contrived example, but it's not far off what really goes on. Take a look inside a decently high end home theatre reciever, and note that basically 100% of the internal volume is used.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2011, 09:02:43 am
content: sure 3D can have it's place, they like to use it at work on the radiator cooling packs we produce as it "fits everything together" to see if you got it right but even then mistakes are made, theory and practice don't always meet like when someone decided that a gap of so wide would fit a part inside it as wide, this part was folded 5mm steel with slots in the section being inserted. Naturally it all went wrong. But the 3D "lego set" design would tell you that it's perfect.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2011, 10:11:03 am
content: Quote from: mkissin on January 07, 2011, 10:28:05 pmThen you hire a contractor on a part time basis for example where I used to work, a woman would come in for one day a week just to draw parts for the new CAD system.Quote from: Simon on January 08, 2011, 09:02:43 amYes, a classic error is not thinking enough about how it's going to be made: if might fit together perfectly on the CAD screen but it there isn't enough room to tighten a nut with a spanner you're buggered.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2011, 10:31:48 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 08, 2011, 10:11:03 amDesign for Manufacturability can be a tricky art to master. For most hobbyists this doesn't matter when things are one-offs by hand, but trying to transfer that same design to commercial scale and the costs would eclipse the BOM.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2011, 11:38:23 am
content: yea, well most of the guys where i work came from a practical background but obviously forgot it fast. Yes designing with production and mass production in mind is more difficult

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2011, 10:20:36 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 08, 2011, 10:11:03 amIndeed. And then, once you've paid her $501, you've hit the mark where that online service would have been cheaper. There is no one-size-fits-all option, which is what I'm getting at.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2011, 08:32:03 am
content: Quote from: mkissin on January 08, 2011, 10:20:36 pmWell, and if you are one of those rare MBAs who actually have a clue, instead of the usual braindead MBA protoplasm shithead, you figure paying her $1503 is still a better deal than paying $501 for an online service. Because you can call the lady in the middle of the week to do an urgent job, she cares more about the quality of her work, because you aren't just another customer to milk. You have someone showing some pride in her work, and being motivated by seeing that the company makes good use of your work, that you are "contributing" - as opposite to an online service where they give a fucking fart about your business, as long as you pay them. $1503 is a better deal, because you set the priorities what needs to be drawn first, you can probably check directly if the drawing is right, being directly in touch with the engineers needing the drawing.This is what the MBA protoplasm shitheads don't learn.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2011, 10:51:54 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on January 09, 2011, 08:32:03 amAlso you can't chew someone's head off when they fuck up across the internet. That itself is a motivator.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2011, 11:06:35 am
content: where I work they love subbing stuff out, their attitude is that if the supplier screws up it's up to them to fix it, they think this is easier and cheaper (and they obviously don't trust themselves) but in reality as the QC inspector dealing with suppliers it makes a nightmare for me, most subcontractors to be pretty blunt range from "not giving a shit" to "not knowing a shit", this seems pretty true in the electrics/electronics line which of course I pick up on ever more being qualified in electronics and having a personal interest.

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2011, 06:15:00 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on January 09, 2011, 08:32:03 amSounds like you've got your hands on some truely fantastic part-timers, there. And possibly also a really horrible manager.