Basic questions concerning Gossen products - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 12:53:00 am
content: I have been attempting to get a few straight answers from Gossen and am not having any luck. There are a few different meters I am considering. Two of them have a data link. They offer BT on at least one model that may be of interest.When I look at their LabVIEW drivers, they talk about supporting the IR port only. Does anyone know if this software supports the BT interface as well?I spent some time looking at the LabVIEW code and it seems fairly straight forward but there appears to be no documentation that goes with it. There is some on-line help but for example, there is a command called STAT that returns 4 Bytes. All the help shows is that Byte 3 & 4 are reserved. Very helpful.I looked for a programmers manual and have been unable to locate one. Does such a thing exist?The one manual I am looking at states that for the Frequency input, "Attention! The applied signal voltage may not exceed 5V."There is no further information about why. If I plug the meter into the AC mains, switch it to Frequency does the meter go up in flames or something?I read a persons post with the Energy where they talk about putting the current inputs across the mains and damaged the meter. Worse is they were unable to have it repaired. What's been your experience with their service? Have you every had them align a meter? Calibrate? Repair? Does it all get returned to the factory for this work?I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go through the documents. Any help sorting out some of the basics would be appreciated.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 01:48:05 am
content: HelloI have learn the hard way myself, i was in search for my "last meter" a 310000 count MetraHit 28s a defunct 10 years model ... no place for bench models in my appartment. I did manage to receive the rs232 protocol from Gossen, available on Google once you know the document name.I live in Canada, they gave me a link to a factory calibration near my town for 120$ usd, but no parts available for it, if i need them, no Firmware updates since they are in an one time programmable cpu.For the accessories like a SI232, BD232 ... I'm almost out of luck, very very expensive ...and the list goes on and on, some demo software's in a few cases, unless you pay and register them, the special calibrator software metrawin90-f/c for my meter isn't available unless you spend at least minimum a 1k to 4.5k $$$ for itI did manage to find free ones with clones models of my Gossen like : Rishabh, Avometer, Siemens, Unigor,my luck changed today for an si232 adapter on ebay usa, a 47$ price wohoooooooI have learn the hard way in the past to measure high power voltages or currents thru clamp meters or EX : an very low value power resistor in line with the voltages, never directly with the meter in serial ...way too easy to blow a fuse / fuses or input an spike or higher voltages exceeding the meter specs.I've seen some meters reacting very badly with input frequencies because of the "auto range modes" in manual mode it was fine up to 100khz. I work in a place with frequency generating equipment's up to 27mhz. All our meters are in manual ranges, no problems ... even had an HP 100mhz scope who could not handle an 27mhz frequency sweep/burst , it would reset and/or change functions without warningFor the recent models Gossen said the commands are in asciifor a Bluetooth, you could made your own with an rs232 to Bluetooth interfacewith no serial characters or commands formatting ?I'm happy with my MetraHit 28s, it's spot on compared with a freshly calibrated meter ... had to adapt with more display resolution past the decimal point loll I love the fact i can zero / negate the test leads resistances ...Try to find your meter protocols, unless you have them already and try to adapt from there if possible for Labview Labview forums may help you.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 03:40:38 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 07, 2017, 01:48:05 amThat may be helpful. Not so much the doc for your 28s but the location. Maybe they have information on the current meters stored their as well. So far I have had no luck finding anything.Quote from: coromonadalix on May 07, 2017, 01:48:05 amThat's a nice deal. Normally, I would have to send in the equipment. Calibration is not too much of a problem. There are many reputable cal houses. The problem would be if it drifted out and needed alignment. It would be pretty bad if it had to go back to the factory. I did write Dranetz but I have a feeling that they do not understand that there is a difference between alignment and calibration.Quote from: coromonadalix on May 07, 2017, 01:48:05 amThis meter would be procured for a review. This means it would have to be something currently sold and brand new. Part of the reason I am looking at the higher end ones is if I run a low end meter and it get's damaged, Gossen fan boys (small group it seems) may feel it was not Gossens best effort. The other reason to run a higher end Gossen would be to compare it against what Brymen, UNI-T, CEM and Summit offer. The bar has been set pretty low.Then again, I never would have guessed that Fluke's gold standard 87V was going to perform so poorly. You just never know what is going to happen when you run benchmarks like this.In the case of the frequency input, the first thing I would do as a beginner would be jam it into a wall socket and measure the 50/60Hz. If this damages a meter like this, that's really bad. But the manual does seem to show that something could happen. The pictures of that meter in the manual don't seem to have any markings to warn the user about the 5V max limit. It's not uncommon to see a mark like this on some equipment.Quote from: coromonadalix on May 07, 2017, 01:48:05 amYes, they are ASCII commands and they have an example program included in the library. It looks very simple and I believe based on the manuals that the BT would behave the same as the standard IR interface so their LabVIEW code should be fine. The problem is that lack of a detailed document to go with it. Maybe it was only available in German.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 09:15:48 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 07, 2017, 03:40:38 pmI dunno. Seems to me it'd be pretty tough for it to compete against a meter like that UNI-T of yours that's had 50 million dollars of engineering time invested into it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 12:05:39 pm
content: Quote from: kcbrown on May 08, 2017, 09:15:48 amI've certainly shown that it would not take much for UNI-T to make that meter's more robust. Personally, I would rather see them improve the UT181A's design. I would buy one today if they came out with it.If I get a Gossen to run, the modified US improved UT181A will be one of the meters I use as a comparison. Recently someone was asking in the beginners area about the stability of a used Fluke 289 they had just purchased. The 181A is a knockoff of the 289 and they were asking about how well it performed in this same test condition so I offered to help.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/is-my-new-fluke-289-multimeter-faulty/Gossen better bring their A game if they want to play.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 12:37:16 pm
content: Have you've seen the interface oxdeadbeef made?:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/usb-irda-adapter-(was-metrahit-usb-ir-diy-interface)/msg803224/#msg803224And my attempt at modding a 2+ (thread needs updating..)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gossen-metrahit-2-ir-output-mod/msg1075499/#msg1075499

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 12:51:01 pm
content: HI JoeThe EEVblog user Voltlog who has a youtube channel with the same name has a couple of Gossen meters.Perhaps he has some information.3DB

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 12:37:43 am
content: Looks like they did a very nice job with the adaptor. I looked through what I could find and there was very little information on the software commands. Looking at the labview example, most of the commands are in the manuals. There is not a lot of detail and I think for just basic logging it would not be a problem to sort out. I was hoping to not waste too much time on trying to sort out commands that should be well documented in a spec, somewhere...Saw that someone had maybe defeated the lock on their software. I have not checked the price for the adaptor and software. I think Brymen wanted $50 USD for theirs.Quote from: 3db on May 09, 2017, 12:51:01 pmThanks.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 11:35:53 am
content: I did send Voltlog a note. He purchased the meter used with no documentation. Sadly it's been a few weeks and nothing from Gossen directly and I doubt I will hear any more from Dranetz.Quote from: coromonadalix on May 07, 2017, 01:48:05 amIf I go with Ultra, it may be interesting to see how well it compares with your older 28s. I would hope that the newer meters would perform at least as good as the older ones. Then again, you can't compare the Fluke 87V with the 87IV. Have you taken your Gossen to your workplace to see if it had any problems with RF like the others you have seen? If I get one, I will do some sort of check on it.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 12:25:00 pm
content: Just watched your video just a bid, I'd still vote for the "cheap" 6000 count M205A (metrahit 2+),pretty sure it will meet and exceed its specs during your high voltage tests.Also measured the burden voltage on mine, 8,03mV @ 10mA, pretty good huh?If you like hacking you could turn the atmega 328 into an arduino (have to write your own sketch..)and have all the features of metrahit world and you could output the serial date thru IR in any format you like.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 05:02:06 pm
content: @joeqsmith no probs at all in my workplace, i love the dual triple display, we have an smps whos doing strange things, 25v ac volts superposed in the 46v dc output voltage

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2017, 11:45:30 pm
content: Nice video, I want to see it pop.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 12:38:09 am
content: Quote from: Vgkid on May 12, 2017, 11:45:30 pmThe following was taken from an ad a friend of mine had sent me over last Winter. With an ad like this, they must be VERY sure of themselves. It sound's like you are not so easily convinced!You can be sure it will get no special treatment in my hands."Features in detail Three Connector Jacks with Automatic Blocking Sockets (ABS)((Patented (patent no. DE 10 2005 062 624, US 7,439,725)) All current ranges are implemented via a single connector jack which prevents any possibility of operator error. Beyond this, the automatic blocking sockets prevent incorrect connection of the measurement cables, as well as selection of the wrong measured quantity.Danger to the user, the instrument and the device under test resulting from operator error is thus ruled out. Overload Protection The instrument is safeguarded for up to 1000 V in all measuring functions by overload protection. Voltages of greater than 1000 V and current of greater than 10 or 16 A are indicated acoustically. Dangerous contact voltages are indicated when the 1 kHz lowpass filter is activated."

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 03:24:43 pm
content: If it can not eject the leads I am sure that somebody will turn the selector past that position limit with ease, breaking the interlocks.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 03:39:46 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 13, 2017, 03:24:43 pmYep. I want to see that tested.How strong are those interlocks? How do they work? (teardown...)

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 08:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 13, 2017, 03:39:46 pmDave has done a teardown of the Gossen MetraHit Energy which has the same interlocks I think:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-173-gossen-metrahit-energy-multimeter-teardown/msg47232/#msg47232

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 08:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on May 13, 2017, 08:38:50 pmThere's no mention of the interlocks in that video though.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 01:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 13, 2017, 08:58:55 pmYou're right - though he does show the switch mechanism with the physical interlock and does show the protection circuits.