ea6e3e22634d1327de811b9bdb1b7af6745910f0 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: barycentric
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 07:17:52 am
content: cb6a28499794e016bbd9f8ad82951ce7a183dc52ccc20a22674c104339ac31eb2e859592e8720ec1e9900e532d76b2c4e1bd0c88394157fd6f7aaba7071d0eab

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 07:54:16 am
content: 1. Faster connectivity.2. See above.3. See above.4. See above.5. See above.6. See above.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 08:03:36 am
content: Actually I think it is about serving more customers. More customers = more bills. And more bills = more money.The faster thing is just a way of accomplishing that.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 08:12:15 am
content: Quote from: EPAIII on January 05, 2022, 08:03:36 amnope, it's the increasing data volume... higher resolution of pictures,videos. more data on web sites.. that's the reason why higher speeds are needed.in 1993 i could get along with a 14400baud modem.. that's little over 1kByte/s... nowadays 10Mbit/s(~1Mbyte/s), approx 1000 times faster is considered kind of slow.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 08:34:04 am
content: Quote from: barycentric on January 05, 2022, 07:17:52 am5G: More data, more faster and with less latency, higher efficiency in power and spectrum occupation.Some changes and simplifications in the core network.That's enough to justify it - and by no means a complete list - as with many other things, technology advances and pushes the market, that promptly pushes technology for more.Or is your digital camera still taking pictures in 640×480?BTW: 5G is mostly acquired technology by now; be forward looking, and start wondering what is the point of 6G (now being actively studied, at least where I work).

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 08:37:38 am
content: While "faster" is certainly a part of it, that is not the big deal, AFAICT.The major driver is that there are large simplifications of the communications infrastructure that make both base stations and the controlling infrastructure easier and cheaper per bit transported. Systems engineering in the different generations is different.Timing, for instance: The Old Way was to have the SDH-derived PDH clock in a E1 or T1 circuit steer the reference clock in the RBS. Which was fine when every telco had a SDH net (because this TCP/IP thing is not something we believe to be usable for Real Telecoms) but since most telcos today provision E1'sover IPit is something of a nuisance having the only part of your actual telephone infrastructure not being decommissioned rely on something that's now expensive to provision, with questionable timing accuracy to boot.Therefore most new build systems use PTP over Ethernet for clock steering. Now, you can put a simple IP router like the Cisco ASR920 in your base station rack, pull 2 dark fibres with 10GE to it from your backbone, and instantly, you have connectivity, timing, and clock backup (it's got a GNSS receiver as well). The ASR920 is not cheap to you or me (USD 5000 list, plus software licenses), but compared to what the telecoms manufacturers made the telcos pay for SDH, it's basically for free..

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 10:14:27 am
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 05, 2022, 08:37:38 amMostly agree with you, with some notes:While it is true that the push for eCPRI (fronthaul transport over Ethernet defined in 2017 PTP as opposed to the synchronous CPRI interface) came from the new 5G requirements, the technology is not strictly 5G specific.Ethernet fronthaul, with PTP (or SyncE) for synchronization as an associated technology and the different split of processing between Radio Equipment Controllers and Radio equipments, has been used for some time in also in 4G.Other, smarter and "bottom up", network synchronisation techniques are also being developed (e.g radio mutual synchronization)As an example, the O-RAN Alliance specifications only admit Ethernet based transports for maintenance (NETCONF over SSH and also TLS in the more recent drafts), user data and control (eCPRI or IP/UDP) , and synchronization (PTP/SyncE) planes and are explicitly valid for both 4G and 5G.The simplification of infrastructure by using Ethernet transport is then not a strictly 5G thing (5G can also use CPRI for the FH), though admittedly 5G gave it a major push.

author: snarkysparky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 03:23:36 pm
content: I wonder that also.5g has three bands.Low band. Service speed and availability mostly the same as what we have now with 4gmid band. Limited range with much faster speed. Available almost nowhere outside of major metro areas.high band. A few streets in Manhattan. Line of sight. 1300 ft max from the tower. Very fast if you want to stand on your balcony.the point is to make the telecos a lot of money.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 03:44:13 pm
content: Beamforming and stearing to aim the signal directly at the receiver.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 05:20:41 pm
content: Quote from: newbrain on January 05, 2022, 10:14:27 amThis quote isvery telco. I would guess you work at a major Swedish telecoms manufacturer.The only part of above that is not an IP protocol and therefore mostly ignorant of the L2 transport, is PTP. No wonder it's a IEEE protocol; the desire to mix layers is strong in the EE.To note; I've run both TLS and SSH (which as we all know are TCP application protocols) over IP over Packet Over Sonet, over IP over PPP on top of E1 and E3 serial, over IP on ATM vc's, over IP inside MPLS VPN, via SLIP over modem, and of course on top of every data carrier offered by mobile operators so far, and the list probably goes on. Not quite certain if I've run over Flame Delay, but I would not be surprised.A related question: Would it be "O-RAN illegal" to have, say, a STM-64 backbone circuit, a router that can be a GM (clock from the SDH line, for instance), with STM-64 and 10GE line cards, and use that to connect up a base station? Because that would not be Ethernet for maintenance, not all the way.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 05:24:55 pm
content: Just saying - 5G is already "obsolete" while being barely deployed so far. 6G is coming. And as far as I've gotten, this time we'll be in the THz territory.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 05:25:59 pm
content: Speed, baby, Speed !

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 05:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on January 05, 2022, 08:12:15 amI fail to see how this point is orthogonal to getting more customers and thus more money.Anyway, this is really what it's mostly all about. Nobody would invest that much cash in this if it wasn't for the ROI.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 07:06:54 pm
content: nanobots in blood need 2 phone home and or faster connectivity

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 09:14:24 pm
content: Those bastards at AT&T here in the States slapped the label "5GE" on an older technology leading the naïve to believe they were getting real 5G. They weren't...

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 09:37:04 pm
content: (-[for almost everyone else]) Travels less distance, requires new technology and infrastructure(+[for the carriers]) Earns carriers £££+++ (which is basically ALL they care about,no, seriously, ALL they care about)Oh, and cloud storage: The faster you can fill up your online cloud storage, the sooner you realise you need more, and the sooner your cloud storage company gets your paid upgradeWe do notneed400 GigaFloppaTerrabps on our phones, laptops, or ANYTHING; the world has gone (more) INSANE.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 09:58:36 pm
content: Quote from: eti on January 05, 2022, 09:37:04 pmOh, but I do. Please don't we stop building it. While there are all sorts of kinds of traps around, as you indicate, there are good, useful ways to use this, and it will only ever be cheap enough that we won't think about the cost unless it's built the best way we can, and made something we all can benefit from.I am a more focused person with less worries now that I don't have to bother saving bits, and the kind of mobile plan I've got now (free domestic calls, free messaging, 20-i-think-something gigs per month data) is something my 2002 self hardly could have dreamt of.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 06:05:37 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 05, 2022, 05:20:41 pmI'll neither confirm or deny where I work- I cannot and do not want to speak for my employer, my opinions are my own etc. etc.The user plane in the fronthaul is not necessarily IP, eCPRI is carried mainly directly over Ethernet.Still L2(-ish), as the IQ samples nees to get to right processing elements and finally in the right RF time slot - but a very different one (and then there are proprietary Ethernet based transports too - of course not in the scope of O-RAN).Since we are talking about fronhaul, the scenario you depict does not seem very practical, but as long as an O-RAN radio (O-RU) sees the correct interfaces (DHCP/SLAAC, NETCONF, eCPRI or UDP/IP, PTP/SyncE) I would think it's not against the specs!Also, O-RAN was just an example and it's still an immature and evolving standard (and still full of oversights and ambiguities).Quote

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 06:48:24 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 05, 2022, 09:58:36 pmOh, I'm sure you do.(Well, to be fair, I'd exclude the ANYTHING part of eti's statement. There sure are cases for which getting data throughput as high as possible is a plus. But on a mobile phone? Who are we kidding?)

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 09:03:17 pm
content: Quote from: newbrain on January 06, 2022, 06:05:37 pmFully understood. I probably can't hide where I work, but neither I speak for my employer. And so on and so forth.Quote from: newbrain on January 06, 2022, 06:05:37 pmWould this be mostly a vertical path, from RBSS to PA/receiver in antenna, or is it even more distributed than that?Quote from: newbrain on January 06, 2022, 06:05:37 pmYes, makes sense.Quote from: newbrain on January 06, 2022, 06:05:37 pmObviously.QuoteA classic, but still good.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 09:23:26 pm
content: Higher bandwidth. 5G in many places could replace conventional DSL internet, which is typically very expensive at the 'last mile'.Improving connectivity in congested areas. Shopping malls, office blocks, stadiums, etc. Currently 3G/4G may get a signal but there is insufficient capacity per customer to make this useful.More bandwidth efficient. So the expensive bandwidth the cell co's buy can be used for more customers/more data. Which means more money, of course.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 09:32:24 pm
content: I will mention, I found having 5G data speeds very helpful when using my phone as a hotspot in a location were wi-fi was slow and inadequate.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 09:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: eti on January 05, 2022, 09:37:04 pmWhich is basically the principle behind the existance of *any* company.QuoteWrong. There are useage cases which desperately need more mobile data bandwidth. For example, ever tried to use the WiFi service on a train? I'm talking about work emails or web-based UIs, not neccesarily watching tiktoks or cat videos.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 02:49:39 am
content: I want to monitor the stock market in real time no matter where I am. Faster is better! There's money on both sides of this deal.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 03:30:54 am
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 05, 2022, 05:20:41 pmNow sit yerself down here on the porch sonny - no not there, you'll get in the way of the rockin' chair - hand me my pipe and that mason jar there, and I'll tell you about the time that I ran th' infrastructure for a national UK ISP with nuthin' more than a 768k Frame Relay circuit to MAE-WEST for transit...

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 03:33:19 am
content: Quote from: nali on January 06, 2022, 09:50:11 pmYou could read a book instead. I'm told there are some quite good ones still available on folded cellulosic media that don't even need batteries, let alone connectivity.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 03:43:33 am
content: Most of the people I know that have 5G phones are:a) not using 5G because it isn't available where they live. Rumors of 5G coverage are exaggerated.b) deliberately turn off 5G because 4G is still better at performing well consistently while traveling. It's no fun dealing with the jerkiness of 5G falling back to 4G as you move in and out of coverage areas, after a lovey timeout period where it doesn't work at all.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 10:43:11 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on January 07, 2022, 03:33:19 am..and some do. Others watch cat videos or shit-tocs and some have to work. Average that over maybe 1000 passengers on a busy commute and you've got quite a bit of data. Personally I use a pair of noise-cancelling headphones and listen to some music or the occasional podcast; coincidentally I think the last podcast I listened to on a train was Amp Hour with Dave talking to Shahriar from The Signal Path about.... 5G development (well worth a listen IMHO)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 10:59:41 am
content: I bought a house and will move soon. 5G is the only viable option for internet somewhat comparable to the fiber optic I currently have. Besides wireless, outdated up to 10/2 mbit down/up DSL is the only option available. 4G would be fine if there was only a handful of users, but in real life it more or less sucks depending on time of the day.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 07:37:27 pm
content: 5G probably works better in fixed locations.Another option or future option for just about everywhere is Starlink, assuming your government doesn't get in the way.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 07:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on January 05, 2022, 09:14:24 pmThey did that with 4G/LTE, too.Also: LTE = "long term evolution towards 4G." They never bothered with implementing what they thought would be a "4G" network.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 07:51:20 pm
content: As far as I know, AT&T's "5GE" is actually LTE, they just put a different label on it.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 07:53:28 pm
content: Quote from: barycentric on January 05, 2022, 07:17:52 amI think the simplest way to think about it is: increased capacity.While the idea of ludicrous-speed transfers to a handset/smartphone make no real sense (you can already stream HD video content with 4G, and really, what are you going to do with any other data?), remember that there is a whole lot of devices out there that will use a cellular network to communicate. For instance: cars. We all know about how Teslas phone home, but within the next ten years all new cars sold will have some kind of cellular data connectivity. (And when the carriers sunset it like they're doing with 3G, well, hahaha, you're fukced).Another idea is that 5G wireless provides an alternative to fiber or cable internet.[I was going to say, "no need to get rights-of-way to run cable/fiber" but the cell providers here seem to be plunking down their poles with 5G antennas wherever the fuck they want, and it would not surprise me if many of those towers were repeatedly vandalized until the point is made. And it's not about stupid fears of 5G, it's about companies putting their poles on private property without permission. (Why they can't share existing electrical poles like the incumbent telco and the cable company and the power company already do is baffling.)]Anyway, just getting a 5G hotspot that does a gigabit rate and attaching the usual firewall/router to it would seem to make customer installations very simple. Of course the connection would be metered and the customers will end up being fucked anyway.So the true answer: money for the providers, with a secondary feature of money for every hardware manufacturer up and down the food chain, from the backhaul/towers down to the handsets.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 08:04:04 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 05, 2022, 09:58:36 pmI know crazy isn’t it. The world will only need 7 super computers too.

author: Algoma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 08:38:24 pm
content: Mobile data here in Canada is such a sad situation. Sure we have all the technology, features and services, but not the competition.Data plans remain well overpriced and 5G services simply allows them to exceed the limit within seconds of turning on your device each month.Cost / GB in one chart.. 5Ghttps://www.iphoneincanada.ca/carriers/canadas-mobile-data-prices-vs-the-world-in-one-chart-pic/

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 08:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on January 07, 2022, 07:53:28 pmTruthfully I don't think I could explain why 5G is a good idea/necessary.Sure, it comes with some definite, solid technical improvements and advantages. But, and it's a big but, is that it is also driven by political and personal forces that have nothing to do with whether it's a good idea/necessary/justified. I've seen politicians of all stripes from all sorts of countries blathering on about how their countrymusthave 5G andmustbe the leading force in 5G while having no cluewhat5G is, or indeed the intellect to differentiate between an elbow and an arse. On the professional side every waste-of-space manager in telecoms from the boards of Fortune 500 companies down to the lowest line manager wants '5G' on their CV/resumé and will make decisions to facilitate that regardless of the merits of 5G itself.Way too much marketing wank, way too much 'new shiny', way too much'if they're having it, we want it too' and way too little proper justification for tearing up existing infrastructure and functionally obsoleting whole ranges of consumer devices. I'm not saying that there aren't justifications, just that you don't hear a cogent case being made for them.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 08:59:43 pm
content: Quote from: Algoma on January 07, 2022, 08:38:24 pmYou may notice that Latvia is on the least abusive end of the chart. Uncapped 4G is not that expensive at all. Cheapest 5G internet (dedicated, without a phone number) is EUR 19/month with 12 month contract, EUR 24/month with not time limited contract. That includes 5G router which by itself costs about EUR 500 . Another operator offers is EUR 13/month without a 5G router included, or EUR9/month if you have 2 phone numbers with them. + EUR 10/month if they give you the router. All have uncapped data.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 10:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on January 07, 2022, 07:44:02 pmI thought 4G LTE was a Verizon thing, as explained here:https://www.verizon.com/about/news/what-4g-lte-and-why-it-mattersIt would not surprise me, however, if AT&T did something similar back at the dawn of the 4G era.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2022, 11:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on January 07, 2022, 10:36:09 pmI had an older (pre 5G) AT&T phone that always displayed LTE, but my newer AT&T phone without a 5G plan shows 5GE.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2022, 11:40:07 am
content: There's another aspect to 5G which doesn't seem to make the headlines which is high accuracy location services with 1m or better claimed accuracy. I know that one area of interest is personal navigation for the blind where 10m GPS doesn't really cut it.https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--what-you-need-to-know

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2022, 02:15:50 pm
content: Also, high data rates can end up being more power efficient because of the lower duty cycle; to transfer a given amount of data, the radio doesn’t need to work as long on a link with a higher data rate. So if your 5G is, say, 10x as fast as your 4G under the same conditions, your radio only needs to be in use 1/10 as long. That not only saves you power, but also increases the overall capacity of the network cell, since your time slots are much shorter.(Yes, first generation radios for any new wireless generation are power hungrier than radios for prior generations, but that always gets resolved within a few years.)

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2022, 04:22:25 pm
content: truth be known, its for the internet of things & the 4th industrial revolution.this is when science fiction becomes science fact. as setout by the World Economic Forum

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 02:22:00 am
content: Quote from: nali on January 08, 2022, 11:40:07 amI think it is because they deliberately under-play it after privacy advocates raised concerns.Do you really want them to know you are having diarrhea today because they can mapped you visiting the bathroom every 10 minutes for the whole day?I like the technology, but I am one of those very concerned about the lost of privacy and liberty enabled by these new technologies.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 06:10:02 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on January 07, 2022, 08:44:46 pmI mean, the technical improvements that allow serving more data to more people faster are pretty much justification enough? Certainly if you look at mobile data usage trends over the past 10 years and projections on demand for the next 5 years, 5G looks pretty desirable. Certainly some people will claim that "it's all cat pictures and tiktoks so we shouldn't be enabling increased usage", but who the fuck are they to decide what usage (and always by implication which people) are important?QuoteThat is true of literally everything, not even just in technology. People who aren't directly involved see something they hear will be important and they want to get in on it. It's as annoying as it is predictable, but it isn't any sort of reason to be upset about 5G. It's just a fact of being human. But with or without the hangers-on, the case for 5G is pretty clear, and the people actually working on it understand that.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 06:33:58 am
content: story goes like thisthe US minister of transportation one Buttigieg was multitasking between breastfeeding baby's and doing that transportation stuffso forgot about 5G and airport 5G microwave interference with aircraft altimeters. a US government cockup or blunder of the first order.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10413625/British-flyers-warned-caught-5G-chaos.htmlhttps://www.eenewswireless.com/news/5g-interference-radio-altimeters-raises-aircraft-safety-concern

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 03:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on January 20, 2022, 06:33:58 amExcept that Buttigieg has been US Secretary of Transportation for less than a year, and 5G has been in the works for much longer. Look to the previous administration and its expulsion of competent staff who were replaced by sycophants and stooges.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 03:20:15 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on January 20, 2022, 06:10:02 amGo back and read the whole thing again, I think you have a comprehension problem. I never said we shouldn't have 5G, I never said I was "upset about 5G", all I said was "Truthfully I don't think I could explain why 5G is a good idea/necessary.". You're arguing against points I didn't make.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 05:08:50 pm
content: Quote from: barycentric on January 05, 2022, 07:17:52 am. IoT and IIoT,. and Cloud services (SaaS, PaaS, IaaS,...XaaS). require a lot. but really, a lot. of data. and speed.In the 1990s you do not have any of those, so it's understandable 5G seems unnecessary

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2022, 11:30:33 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on January 20, 2022, 06:10:02 amThing is, I think for most people, they will not see the advertised significant speed improvement. It has problem penetrating walls, windows and even mere tree leaf. So you are reduced to basically needing line-of-sight to the antenna.According to talkingpointz.com which pop up as first on Google Search for "5g cannot penetrate windows":https://talkingpointz.com/the-difference-between-5g-and-5g/QuoteSo except for the limited few, they will be seeing 3G/4G/LTE probably for much of the life of "5G" deployment. The improved efficiency is a good thing. It helps hold cost down for the carriers and some saving would be passed along to the customers - or at least price increase will be tempered somewhat.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2022, 03:00:25 am
content: It's not unlike any other technology that gets improved over time.Faster speeds, better (more efficient) use of the radio spectrum, support for more devices on a given chunk of air, better encryption, more features etc...It's no different to why things like WiFi or televisions have evolved over time.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2022, 03:12:04 am
content: Quote from: daqq on January 05, 2022, 07:54:16 amI am still laughing today... well done.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2022, 06:26:03 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on January 20, 2022, 11:30:33 pmSitting here at home, inside my four walls, behind my windows, I am getting 140 down, 28 up on 5G. I think that is pretty good. I never saw speeds like that with LTE.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2022, 11:35:53 am
content: Quote from: IanB on January 21, 2022, 06:26:03 amInside my apartment, with only 2 bars of signal on my iPhone SE (2020), which does not support 5G, I just tested my LTE at 87Mbps down, 47Mbps up. 140 down is eminently possible with a stronger signal.The upshot is, LTE done right performs very, very well. Unfortunately in your case, the US is, on average, pretty bad at cellular. :/ (I’ve often described cellular in USA as being somewhat third-world, but the analogy breaks down when one realizes that many third world countries actually do cellular quite well, often relying on it exclusively, with areas having never gotten landline service to begin with!)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2022, 03:38:23 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 27, 2022, 11:35:53 amInteresting. On my other phone with a "5GE" plan I just measured 155 down, 12.6 up. So I guess the phone hardware plays a part, as well as the network.I believe "5GE" is LTE, renamed.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2022, 12:40:12 am
content: People love to post how their "next" gen wireless connection is so much faster, forgetting that when its new the users/contention/congestion is so low that they are seeing abnormal performance.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2022, 01:11:55 am
content: Code:Network TypeDownload SpeedUpload Speed4G LTE150Mbps50Mbps4G LTE-Advanced300Mbps150MbpsMost phones support the LTE-A as well, just looks like networks were slow at implementing it, or never implemented it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 06:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 27, 2022, 03:38:23 pmAhugepart. LTE and 5G modems vary significantly in their capabilities, supported bands, etc.Quote from: IanB on January 27, 2022, 03:38:23 pmYeah that’s just AT&T’s marketing horseshit. (Which is that much more irritating insofar as LTE, especially LTE-A, has nothing to hide and performs very, very well if done right.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 06:12:20 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on January 28, 2022, 01:11:55 amAs of two years ago, half of all LTE networks worldwide already supported LTE-A. I don’t think that’s too shabby.

author: hagster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 06:24:28 pm
content: 5G can sustain those high data rates to lots of users simultaneously. If you happen to be close to a 4G base station in a location with relatively few users you will get great performance. But imagine being in a football stadium with 100k other users.Is it worth paying a premium for? Probably not for most people, but if they can get a good bunch of early adopters to pay extra to pay for the technology they will.Apparently latency is also a big thing for 5G. Gamers would appreciate that in locations where they can't get a wired connection.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2022, 10:30:48 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on January 05, 2022, 08:12:15 amIt is gone just ridiculuous, basic web page needs these days a huge computer to even load. I did try to use RaspberryZero a year ago for a web browsing and without any luck, even something like basic dry information portals like news papers etc. are so poorly done and optimised that you just can not. No wonder we are running out of power (sarcasm kind of). It seems every ie. picture optimisation technique is thrown out of window. I wonder when I did last time see interlaced jpg or png file on web, or color palette optimisation we keenly used in the late 90s yearly 00. Same with ie. Python applications everywhere on linux. Don't burn me Python is nice, but not outside small POC and scientific apps.5G is needed for future dreams, advertisement of increased speed, 6-dimensional 8K porn and mind control in orwellian society. 'Roll eyes'Panem et circenses.It is also somewhat more less expensive way to provide (note on paper, they will over book and not deliver as always) 'fiber speed' without the cost of real fiber. While indeed the network itself will need more or equivalent amount of backplane fiber optic cables than what it would be needed to get it every house.The health issues related is troubling me since it is not proven that a hotspot field due erratic reflection and unplanned changes will not occur, but technology have always collateral damage for creater good (what ever it is).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 08:45:29 am
content: Quote from: Vtile on January 30, 2022, 10:30:48 pmThe amount of garbage JavaScript used on modern sites (mostly for ads, tracking, etc) is obscene. The actual file sizes, even of images, barely matter nowadays. But tons of JavaScript, much of which is loaded by other JavaScript as it runs, means page loading is delayed by the speed of code execution and the subsequent server responses.It’s insane how big the difference is when using an ad blocker on typical sites like news sites: page loads go from 10 seconds to 1 second, commonly.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 08:48:08 am
content: QuoteIncluded is a screenshot from a Slovakian news site. The highlighted red area is the actual text. Okay, there's one more line of the text at the bottom. The rest is just ads. Moving ads.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 09:50:59 am
content: Indeed, it iskind ofsad that one could run something like Lazarus (~1gb) full RAD environment and work with it, but can not use internet browser to read the fucking manual.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 06:10:03 pm
content: Quote from: hagster on January 29, 2022, 06:24:28 pmUh, yeah. Except that comparing 5G to older tech using the same usage profiles is not relevant. It's highly likely that 5G will make data consumption "explode" compared to 4G and older - thus the overall user experience, when "lots of users" are using it, is probably going to be pretty similar.It's like the computer hardware vs. software thing. The more powerful hardware is, the more bloated software becomes.So what we can reasonably say is that 5G will make wireless data consumption increase a lot. Will it make it better from the average user's experience POV? Probably only at the very beginning.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 06:17:20 pm
content: Most of that lot of users is sitting at nome behind walls unpenetrable to 5G.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 06:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 31, 2022, 06:10:03 pmI disagree. 3G networks not only collapsed under heavy loads (i.e. large numbers of people), but it was easy to saturate a 3G link yourself — its bandwidth and latency presented a very real limitation to browsing speed (it wasn’t bad by any means, but it was noticeable compared to, say, cable). LTE has proven to be a great performer with resources to spare. I don’t think web resources have actually changed THAT much during the LTE era, as in, I think web pages became pigs during the late 3G era and haven’t changed that much since.Bear in mind that, data caps notwithstanding, LTE is often good enough to be a viable alternative to terrestrial broadband internet. That certainly wasn’t the case with 3G. (Sure, 3G mobile hotspots existed, but using them was always a noticeable downgrade vs. terrestrial.)In other words, my feeling is that with 3G, the network was still a bottleneck, so content had to be scaled down for it. (And thus with LTE content could be delivered uncompromised.) LTE hasn’t been a bottleneck, and thus content hasn’t been scaled down for it to begin with, and thus I don’t see it bloating up for 5G.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 07:47:19 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 31, 2022, 06:29:46 pm3G typically gives a RTT latency around the 150ms mark, where good 4G can go as low as 40ms. Nowhere near as good as standard fibre broadband; I have around 4ms RTT over my tunneled network from home to the co-lo on the other side of town:Success rate is 100 percent (100/100), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/3/4 ms...and between 8 and 9 in the evening probably is close to max load on the network.But, and this is an important BUT, 40ms is still bearable for terminal work and definitely web browsing, in a way that 150ms never will be.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 08:08:20 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 31, 2022, 07:47:19 pmThose sound like really awful ping times for both 3G and LTE. Using the standard Speedtest by Ookla app on my iPhone, at 2 minutes to 9pm, the 2 bars of LTE in my bedroom just gave me a ping time of 14ms. 3G in the same location on the same device, 31ms. (My Wi-Fi, which is still old-school 802.11n backed by 600Mbps cable, pinged at 11ms.)All the same, I completely concur with your conclusion that ping times are absolutely essential to web performance. I remember back in the late 90s when, like everyone else, I used dialup at home. Occasionally, a friend and I would go to his dad's printing shop and surf the web in their design studio, where they had ISDN "dialup". Even though the ISDN's 64Kbps doesn't sound like much more than the 56Kbps of a dialup modem, the 64Kbps were guaranteed by design, and didn't rely on compression as 56K modems did, so the latency was much lower, and browsing performance very noticeably better. In stark contrast, the very first mobile data I used (GPRS) also theoretically supported 56-114Kbps, but the massive latency (around 700ms typical) made it damned near unusable for anything except fetching POP email once in a while.

author: hagster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2022, 09:05:23 am
content: Another way to look at 5G is from the tech companies point of view. For instance Qualcom could take the view that LTE is good enough and just work on making it cheaper. But the older tech will slowly become commodatised and profit margins will drop. The only way to stay relevant in the tech industry is to aggressively invest in new and improved tech.