Nicolet 3091 o'scope any good?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: DFC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 12:29:22 am
content: Hello,been lurking awhile but pretty much new here.I can get my hands on a above mentioned oscilloscope but there is something that bothers me. Manual reckons it's a digital scope but it looks to me like a combo. OK, scope came out in 1982, making it as old as me and it seems to have a lot of bells and whistles but what bothers me is in the manual the analog specs for bandwidth clocks out at 300khz?That seems really low. The digital max sampling rate is at 1mhz?12 bit dac?It just seems bloody low for a scope that seems to have had a lot of effort on manufacturing side of things. Has features that I would imagine would be top tier for back in the day.My question is can I use this scope as a replacement for the 20mhz,cheap piece of GW Instek 620 crap that never bloody works cause something else keeps breaking?I want something for general electronics work and the advice has always been 20mhz minimum.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 02:50:33 am
content: Not really, that scope is not meant to substitute a 20Mhz analog scope. However thanks to the 12 bit resolution it will be more precise than others so use it to make precise low frequency ac measurements, think of it as multimeter with an oscilloscope display

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 05:07:28 am
content: They seem rather expensive on ebay given the specs, and especially given the plethora of decent scopes at low prices out there, though I wouldn't like to speculate on shipping costs for a CRO type scope to RSA, which is where your flag indicates unless I'm horribly mistaken

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 05:12:59 am
content: 300kHz 12 bit? Is it intended for audio work?

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 06:06:05 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 24, 2019, 05:12:59 amIt was intended mainly for physical, mechanical and biological signals. Here is an ad from a NASA Tech brief of a later model, advertising their better accuracy and resolution. I'm lucky to have a Nicolet Sigma 30 which is 12 bit and 5MHz (http://www.testequipmenthq.com/datasheets/NICOLET-SIGMA%2030-Datasheet.pdf)

author: DFC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 09:25:48 am
content: Quote from: MasterTech on September 24, 2019, 02:50:33 amI cant imagine using it for anything in else in my shop really.Quote from: ThickPhilM on September 24, 2019, 05:07:28 amYour quite right,RSA.I think Ive seen one more other member on here (TimB I think?).The scope is just a few kays from me,no shipping needed and is free to boot.The thing is surplus ie sitting on a shelf after being replaced with newer equipment quite a few years ago now.Quote from: james_s on September 24, 2019, 05:12:59 amCome to think of it,the guys Im getting it from do make use of alot of sensors (heat,weight,flow ect) around the place.Can see how one would need accuracy and resolution at low freq or rather what passed for it back in the day.Its a crying shame for me,cant really use it for what I want.Has alot of really nice features that my GW POS doesn't have like the ability to actually work amongst others.Anyway,thanks for the input.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 04:40:18 pm
content: Free, and within easy collection distance?Take it, you'll find a use for it eventually

author: DFC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 06:45:35 pm
content: Quote from: ThickPhilM on September 24, 2019, 04:40:18 pmI reckon that too. Even if it makes up part of the decor.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2019, 04:21:44 am
content: That can also lead to hoarding and leave you with so much stuff that you don't have space to use any of it. At least something like this should be easy to rehome if it ends up not being useful.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2019, 08:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 25, 2019, 04:21:44 amThat is when you march right over to the TEA thread. You will be welcomed with open arms.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2019, 10:43:05 pm
content: I have had scopes with lesser bandwidth. We all push for high bandwidth to be able to view square waves where we need, perhaps, 9 times the fundamental frequency. A 100 MHz scope is marginally capable of displaying a 10 MHz square wave.But, thinking of audio and sine waves, 300 kHz is pretty reasonable and there is a lot of digital going on at less then 30 kHz.If it is cheap enough, it might serve you well while you save up for one of the entry level Siglents SDS1102X-E, SDS1104X-E, SDS1204X-E or the Rigol DS1054Z.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 08:02:07 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 26, 2019, 10:43:05 pm... andincapable of displaying a1Hzsignal with 1ns width. In a digital circuit such signals are exactly as important as a 10MHz square wave.In other words, who cares about the special case of square waves - theonlyrelevant time parameter is the risetime.

author: DFC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 09:36:23 am
content: You know,I was thinking about this.For what I do,the bandwidth of this scope seems perfectly reasonable.It hasall the features that I've wanted and envied for a long time now.The resolution is also pretty amazing especiallyconsidering its age.Of Course,a modern scope does all this and more but if it suits my needs,why spend money thatcould be used for other equipment?At least for now.I've always had a soft spot for older equipment,I've also always had a soft spot for older women but that is a whole other canof worms and the two should not be confused.Could someone post a link to the TME thread?I have looking but 12 hours night shift takes a toll on the mind.Thanks.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 11:37:33 am
content: Remember those Nicolet scopes from years ago, when I bought my first scope. Not so much affordable available back than, I had the choice between Tek 7603/7D20 and some weird Nicolet scope, probably a 4094A. I wisely chose the Tek.Just looked at the specs, the weird thing with those scopes is that the ADC/digitizer is inside the plugins (unlike e.g. Tek7854), so bandwidth/sample rate depends on what kind of plugin is installed.Plugin specs are hard to find, the info I've gathered so far:4175: 8bit, 50MSample/s, 16k memory, 75MHz single ended amp, 100mV-40V/div4562: 12bit, 2MSample/s, 16k memory, differential amp4570: 12bit, 10MSample/s, 16k memory, differential amp4580: 8bit, 200MSample/s, 16k memory, 100MHz single ended amp, 100mV-40V/div4581: 15bit, 100kSample/s, 16k memory, differential ampF43: more (much so) or less useless floppy disk recorder, probably very expensive back then

author: DFC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 02:56:56 pm
content: Dont know.Going off of the manual,it seems the the specs listed in there is what you get right off the bat with just the probes.Add on bits and pieces for this scope I would imagine would be rare and hard to find.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 03:25:49 pm
content: Quote from: DFC on September 30, 2019, 09:36:23 amVery saneBTW, my standard scope is a 1970s 350MHz Tek 485(And yes, I do have a couple of digitising scopes)