Which core does ISI Vision3/Surveyor use? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cejoba
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2022, 02:18:43 pm
content: Hi friends.I may have a chance to get a ISI Vision3/Surveyor through local auction. But I only searched it is BST sensor, I want to know, is it using Raytheon 300A or 300D core, or using custom PCB?Thanks.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2022, 08:12:00 pm
content: I do not know anyone that did their own BST core, Raytheon sold as complete kits.Probably a 'digital' (205D) but could still be an analogue (200A) if the Surveyor was built that early - would have to be pre 2003 to use a 200A.The 300's were camera numbers I think ?

author: dalittle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 02:40:53 am
content: The ISI Surveyor is an upgraded Vision3. As far as I can remember it used a Raytheon 300D core. No custom boards other than switching power and an interface board. NTSC video. I don't remember if it was available with video overlay. If it was, the gen lock was onboard the CCD camera.

author: cejoba
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 10:28:06 am
content: Thank you people.I'm not sure if it's a Vision3 or a Surveyor at this moment... They use the same core?Quote from: Bill W on July 25, 2022, 08:12:00 pmThis is a bit strange... I saw teardowns of different BST cameras, some have a whole black module inside(which they refer as either 300A or 300D), others have exposed sensor with various different boards below.And now there's 200A and 205D? I'm even more confused now.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 12:00:59 pm
content: Quote from: cejoba on July 26, 2022, 10:28:06 amApologies....200A and 205D were 'cores' (loose PCB but in calibrated sets) for OEM camera builders205D:http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/spares/BST_D.jpgThe PCB for the detector was optional, as was the chopper mount - many made their own - , and you usually got a motor and chopper wheel.300 were essentially complete cameras for pure 'screwdriver assemblers' or stand alone use. Using one in afire camera would need a lot of overprotection, while an indoor surveillance setup might be OK as provided.Bill

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 12:05:23 pm
content: To add to Davids' post....ISI Vision 3Analogue BST kit, indeed a fairly early one with the olive drab heatsink and so on. ISI have not added much to it, buying at a higher level of integration than Argus or ISG did as that front end block is pure Raytheon.Surveyor is the 'upgrade with digital core' according to publicityI did not get one and take it apart though, so no photos inside.

author: cejoba
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 12:39:37 pm
content: Thank you Bill!

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 01:48:55 pm
content: Are there any improvement for the digital version in SNR or sensitivity? Or just reduced noise?

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 04:26:48 pm
content: The 'digital' aspect was mainly internal housekeeping. It is the same detector, same recommended biases and decoupling so the basic front end noise would be unchanged.What differed was the option to feed in gain and offset values as data (not DC) - via the ControlIR software and also to adjust some back end processing.That may have allowed some OEM to improve the overall setup of their cameras, there are both 'peaking' and 'averaging' settings available via ControlIR.So someone going from noisy DC gain/offset to digital gain/offset control with peaking / averaging set would make a worthwhile change.Someone who simply left the core in 'auto' would get exactly the same image.For what it is worth, I alter the BST cores / camera that I refurbish to run peaking '1' and averaging '2F'.regardsBill

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 06:11:17 pm
content: Thanks a lot Bill!Excuse me for a few more questions.So the RS232 control software is only for the digital core and not the analog one?Will the manual gain be able to get higher than automatic? (For either analog or digital)Could you explain what are peaking and averaging settings for?I saw Fraser's post of screenshots and didn't even find those settings...

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 10:28:27 am
content: Yes the public released setup (pinout, software) is only on the digital cores. The manual gain can go higher (you can access higher multiplier settings) but BST is noise limited before then.AGC / 'fine gain' is 0-255, the multiplier x2 to x128, normally x32. ( ? I think)They are on the new window that you get from the 'Video' button.The peaking is a high pass video filter - mild sharpening on a smaller footprint than the inherent unsharp mask of the chopper wheelThe averaging is a simple field average of 2 to 32 (? I think) fields. 2 fields is not noticeable in moving images and worth the noise reduction, more than that gets looking very laggy on a handheld.There must be a similar setup on analogue cores, if only to perform the calibration, but it is not documented at all. Might even be some kind of home brew interface onto the edge connector and buried in the ASIC. I must go looking more as I have a few analogue cores that could do with recalibrating.Bill

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:44:01 pm
content: Thank you Bill!

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2022, 02:19:10 pm
content: OP, Surveyor is also analog version BST, I just taken apart one.

author: dalittle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 04:04:43 am
content: I am VERY surprised to see the Surveyor fitted with an analog 300 BST core.I was almost certain the distinguishing factor between Vision 3 and Surveyor was the digital core, PLUS the Surveyor housing being injection molded glass impregnated nylon VS layered fiberglass for the Vision 3.You’re sure, right?Looks like I learned something new today. And since I am pretty old, I am almost incapable of learning anything new at this stage.

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 03:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: dalittle on September 19, 2022, 04:04:43 amYes, and as I mentioned in another post, it have a really strange construction: The bottom half is a standard S300A, but no top cover, instead there's a metal frame with custom lens...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 03:06:56 pm
content: I have one of those ! I wondered what camera it had originally come from !ThanksFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 03:16:32 pm
content: Here are two pictures of my core.The top of a standard 300A has been cut away to permit the use of another lens mount design. I always thought that an unusual decision by the designer ! My unit came with a lens but I remain uncertain whether it was originally used with the modified 300A core.Fraser

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 05:07:10 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on September 19, 2022, 03:16:32 pmHi Fraser.Mine is still different from yours, Mine have no top cover, not cut like yours.See 2 photos.Sadly it just died because I shorted the motor pins.Any ideas how to try repair?How can it break the whole thing and not just the motor controllerAfter the magic smoke smell, now there's no video output...Thanks.

author: dennho
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 07:47:24 am
content: Sorry about your motor, Logan.I believe they removed the front cover to fit the iris control motor and to mount their own overlay camera. I think they should have implemented this without having to butcher the 300A coverI found an S300A core in my Vision 3. Would anyone know why the colors of my orange and black wires are "reversed" on my S300A core in my Vision 3? Take a real close look at my pictures. I haven't tested the polarity of the two wires with a volt meter yet, but I believe ISI may have switched the wiring color around by accident? Does anyone else have this 7 Pin wiring layout in their ISI Vision 3 S300A core?Compare my 7 pin wiring with Frasher's 300A core and the wiring diagram posted here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/thermal-camera-raytheon-l3-spi-300d-information/msg930673/#msg930673and you may notice my orange and black wires are switched.Also, from the ISI Vision 3 operator's manual, Gain changes the output for both the internal LCD display and Video out (I know brightness only changes the internal LCD brightness, but not for video out). Is the gain knob/pot changing the resistance of wires directly connected to the S300A core? If so, which wires of the 7 pins is the gain pot connected to?Also, would anyone know which wires enable reverse image polarity switching (Black Hot / White Cold) in the S300A core? According to the Operator's manual for the ISI Surveyor, it has a black top button option to enable reverse image polarity to make Black Hot (if this feature is installed). Would anyone know where the reverse image polarity switch wires connect to inside the ISI Board or S300A Core?Thanks for your help.Also, this information is not found in the Vision 3 manual. If it matters to you, this is how you change Temperature units from Celsius to Fahrenheit:Quote