Frozen cables Cryogenix-uk affiliation to The British Cryogenics Council - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2025, 10:23:37 pm
content: Just reading some wild claims about cable that they claimed to have been frozen.https://www.cryogenix-uk.com/audioQuoteThen I noticed this:How are they members I wonder and according to whois cryogenix-uk.com was registered in 2020 on Wix.com.They seem legit:Quotehttps://bcryo.org.uk/aboutQuoteWell shouldn't they know better to be affiliated with these claims about the audio sounding better when frozen or am I missing something.It reminded me of this:EEVblog #29 - Audiophile Audiophoolery7 Sept 2009QuoteI just searched for "cryogenix" in their directory and can't find them.https://bcryo.org.uk/members-directory?search=cryogenixI wonder are they taking advantage of their good name.Maybe I should contact them to find out if they really are member.What do you think?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 06:27:27 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on May 17, 2025, 10:23:37 pmYes do that. Their answer will tell you a lot about their organisations legitimacy.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 07:44:31 pm
content: Grain size or lattice defects in copper (or other good conductors) do not affect electric signal propagation or attenuation at all at audio frequencies at line level or speaker driving voltages and currents, other than small variations in conductivity.Thus, all that is purebullshitaudiophoolery.Deep Cryogenic Treatment (DCT), essentially dunking them in liquid nitrogen for 24 hours,isvery useful for many metals and materials containing significant amounts of metals. It is particularly useful for steel and carbides –– cutting and machining bits, drills –– as a significant toughening/hardening treatment. Just like in annealing, the change is permanent (unless heated to sufficient temperature to change the atomic structure again). Exactly what happens at the atomic scale depends on the material a bit, but the main change is increases in tensile strength, yield strength, and impact resistance; for steel alloys and carbides, these are significant.For copper, the grain size decreases and lattice defects increase and distribute across the bulk during DCT, yielding some modest increase in tensile and yield strengths and impact resistance, and up to 3% increase in conductivity depending on the purity of the copper (around \$\sigma = 5.96 \cdot 10^7\$ S/m), i.e. up to 3% decrease in resistivity (from \$\rho = 1.68 \cdot 10^{-8}\$ Ω m); noting that the purity of the copper has a much greater effect.In the audio range, skin effect varies from 15mm (at around 20 Hz) to about 0.4mm (around 25 kHz) in pure copper, so for maximum signal fidelity and minimum frequency dependence one would use a multi-strand cable with diameters much less than 0.4mm. Such cables are also mechanically nice (and extremely common), being flexible/soft. While cladding (PVC, PVA, silicones) would become brittle in cryogenic temperatures, there could be some tiny benefit from cryogenic treatment of the pure copper strands before cladding, yielding a tiny enhancement to the mechanical properties of such cables; but it would simply not affect the audio-frequency signal passed through the cable at all.(I point this out because DCT, or deep cryogenic treatment, is actually quite cheap; liquid nitrogen costs about the same as milk in stores, and the standard containers are simple dewar flasks with lots of styrofoam around. The large containers aren't even gas-tight at all, as it is safe to let any evaporated nitrogen to simply mix in the atmosphere, as long as the room is ventilated well enough for oxygen to not be displaced too much. For example, a high-end carbide drill/bit sharpening service could easily offer optional cryogenic treatment for very little extra cost, and in many cases it could have a significant effect on the usable life of said tool. But electronics? Nah.)

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 07:52:14 pm
content: To get the full benefit you need to store your cd's in the deep freeze

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 08:47:39 pm
content: A lot of people have seen the clip where a banana, cooled down to liquid nitrogen temperatures, is used to hammer in a nail into a wooden board. Many organic materials are like that.Plastics behave differently. I'm not sure of exact polymer types involved, but I do believe some simply crumble (because the liquid nitrogen is in constant flow due to evaporation, and that is sufficient to break down the polymer chains). Even sillycones become brittle. I believe, but have no proof or references for my belief, that the plastic used in CDs and DVDs is one of these become-very-brittle ones.At minimum, the metal foil will detach due to the wildly different thermal expansion coefficients.The one exception I know of is ultra-high molecular weight plastics (UHMW), which can withstand liquid nitrogen temperatures at ease. They're often used in valve seats in piping for liquid nitrogen.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 08:58:42 pm
content: I guess that annealing copper is too expensive for ineffable effects?Mechanically, annealed OFHC makes an excellent gasket for vacuum systems ("Conflat" flanges).

author: TUMEMBER
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 12:28:52 pm
content: Annealing copper causes grain growth, "softening" it. Bending such a wire several times causes it to "harden" again by crushing the large original grains. This is called plastic processing. The same applies to washers – they are initially soft and conform to the "thread," but they also harden. Generally, they should be used only once and away from ammonia, otherwise they will be a disaster.

author: paul cotter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 05:11:07 pm
content: There seems to be no end to which audiophoolery will not go to produce some sales. Working on a high power AM transmission site many years ago I ordered some hard drawn copper cable for the shunt feed to a grounded tower as regular copper was sagging- this stuff was hard and brittle and showed minimal stretching.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 05:18:48 pm
content: Metallurgy is a dark art, like thaumaturgy, but very important for practical uses.