Belgian boy Laurent Simons heads off to university aged 8. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 08:22:11 pm
content: What in the world? Holly cow...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44668452

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 08:32:01 pm
content: I liked the comment from his dad, "If he decided tomorrow to become a carpenter, that would not be a problem for us, as long as he is happy," his father said.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 08:33:10 pm
content: I don't get this. I can understand that school is easier for some people than the others. But why not actually go along with everyone.So he goes into the uni at 8, gets masters at 14. What's next? He will not be able to find employment for a few more years.I fear that this is his parents pushing him to do this stuff, and that scares me.Education must progress with age and personal development, IMO. If school is easy - take up some hobbies, relax a bit. Is he in a rush to get somewhere?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 08:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 08:33:10 pmI'd argue the reverse. There is a tendency to slow down sharp minds for the sake of the rest of the group, leading them to get bored, act up or even completely give up on academics. I think there's a focus on children lagging behind, but children ahead of the game are too often left to fend for themselves. Just because they're smart doesn't mean they understand how they tick or what their needs are yet and that can really bite.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 08:57:00 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 30, 2018, 08:50:05 pmBut that's why there are schools or classes for "smarter" kids that have in-depth study of a specific subject/subjects.I have no problems with kids of any age passing math and physics, since those things are based on facts. I too studied physics ahead of everyone else just as summer reading. I still went though classes and did the homework, it just took me 10 minutes to complete. Not a big deal.But I really don't understand how one can pass subjects of a softer nature, like literature. In many cases you need to write essays on subjects that can not be reasonably understood by an 8 year old, however advanced he is (themes of love, treason, moral dilemma, etc). For some thing you need to live and experience life. It is possible that nobody writes essays anymore and it is all standardized tests, but then I don't know if it counts for anything.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 09:00:54 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 08:57:00 pmAdvanced groups aren't always available or not advanced enough. Regardless, this doesn't seem to be a typical 8 year old. Development obviously isn't normal.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 09:05:44 pm
content: 40 years on....

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 09:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 08:33:10 pmIt's thanks in part to this type of philosophy and no one available to me with advanced understanding in advanced maths that the age when I happen to be advanced enough and open to learning such things, and I was begging to learn more about advance trigonometry and calculus, came and went. Once in college, I already lost the patients and ability to absorb the subject matter properly. It was just too late. Think of it like an adult trying to learn a foreign, but, similar language which you don't really have any reason to learn.And yes, I was behind in literature, history and geography because to me it sucked. It was known that my math and science skills were way above normal in grade school, considered entry college level. These subjects just didn't matter enough or have any future critical value to my parents. Once high-school came, I was already bored with the subject and I eventually was left behind because I no longer cared and just refused to do any math anymore.For some, there's just a small window of time where a valuable advanced subject or skill can be taught and mastered, after which, we can get stuck in our ways and something once enjoyed when young has needlessly become another daily annoyance.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 09:57:50 pm
content: Had a similar school experience, one teacher in particular made me keep repeating very basic arithmetic ad nauseam. Think it led to my general dislike of maths as a subject. Part of the problem is that many teachers don't actually understand the subject anyway, they just parrot the textbook at the students. Any student who asks awkward questions (that show up the teacher's own incompetence) is in for a world of pain.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 09:58:32 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 08:57:00 pmIndeed and he will experience those later on in life and not reading about it or hearing it from a subjective teacher but on his own. But why would you have to wait if he is ready now to absorb scientific education and can achieve great things in math and physics.Hundreds of years ago there was the master pupil system, children did where they were interested in and had talent for. They did not do literature or foreign languages just what was needed for that craft. It gave us Mozart, Rembrandt but also the top physicist that found the first laws of nature etc. Etc.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 09:59:37 pm
content: I'm not saying that I liked soft stuff either, I hated it. But I'm not sure if not teaching it is a good idea, I really don't have enough information to pass that judgement.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:02:58 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 30, 2018, 08:50:05 pmI found many of the university classes "slow", especially the ones about power electronics.Quote from: IanMacdonald on June 30, 2018, 09:57:50 pmI never really liked math for a long time, then cryptocurrency came along...

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:03:37 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 30, 2018, 09:58:32 pmAnd then when in 5-10 years he burns out, there will be no fallback option.We can't expect schools to only produce Mozarts, and leaving everyone who is not genius behind smells of eugenics.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:05:03 pm
content: With all the new and total amount of knowledge can we still have a "homo universalis" as Davinci was in the Renaissance? I don't think so, at least not in depth, too much for one person.The reason I am for a broad education is to let students experience those skills/sciences/languages and find out what they are good in or really like. But should that take 6 years?Around me I hear more and more graduates from secondary school that have no clue what to study next or which job they like.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:07:25 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 10:03:37 pmWhy would he burn out when he does what he loves and has an interest in. Read the article again, AFAICT it is not his parents that do this, they don't care as long as he is happy. Belgian is not like Korea where parents force their children to skip play and just study resulting in staggering number of teen suicides.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:10:14 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 30, 2018, 10:07:25 pmBecause interests change. Many people burn out even if they do what they like.Quote from: Kjelt on June 30, 2018, 10:07:25 pmLet's hope so.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:14:10 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 10:03:37 pmYes, burn out is a real issue, but, now we know better and with the proper balance and attitude, it can be avoided.On the other side, parents who super push their super young child prodigies talents, like those you violinist/pianists, purely for immediate fame and profit will almost certainly create a guaranteed burn-out situation.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:14:38 pm
content: No problem he is 8 where normal kids would have been 18 so he already won 10 years not sitting in school benches, enough time to pursue other interests

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:19:42 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 10:03:37 pmBetter than burning out now due to lacking the challenge he desires. Slowing down children who don't need it can be very damaging. As has been described in this thread, being forced to pursue something at a gratingly menial pace is a great way of taking all the fun out of subjects

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:25:39 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 30, 2018, 10:05:03 pmThis is an interesting point. I grew up wanting to know how thing worked and was pretty much assured to head into electronics. At the time in the 70s in Montreal, electronics and computers wasn't seen as a profitable endevour. My parents thought electrician, crap. Become a doctor or lawyer. (I sort of wish being born and living in or close to Silicon Valley, this attitude would have not existed there...) It took until the late 80s and 90s before they can accept that there was some value to consumer electronics and home computers and that there is money to be made there.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2018, 10:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 30, 2018, 10:14:38 pmIt doesn't matter how smart you are, if you don't use it, especially as our minds mature in shape, size and function from that young age, you will loose it. Though he is so far ahead, he must continue to functionally use his knowledge and expand his abilities almost every day. And he needs to further expand his abilities, because once something gets too boring to care about, there is little chance the same degree of interest will come back later-on in life.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:07:49 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 08:33:10 pmDo you really think parental pushing is enough to get an 8 year-old to university level? Sorry, I just can't see that. The kid has to have some innate ability.I sometimes wish my parents had been a little more encouraging. When I was in primary school, there were 3 kids in my year that were offered placements in what was called an "opportunity class". I was one of them. My parents left the decision to me - without making any real effort to encourage or explain the benefits. As a pre-teen kid who lived 4 doors from the school, the opportunity class, being a few suburbs distant, seemed so very far away. The distance was uncomfortable and the travel felt scary. As a result, I chose to feel safe and passed it up. I sometimes wonder what may have come if I had chosen otherwise.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:36:09 am
content: I was thinking about this a bit, and a thought crossed my mind, for which I want to hear some opinions from people from different countries.How is it even possible to finish school in 1.5 years? I don't think such thing is possible in Russia (where I grew up). None of the examination systems are set up to take exams for multiple years.How does it even work? Do you need to just pass some combined exam, or exams designed to be passed year after year? Who takes the exam? In many places examination commissions are assembled only during the exam time. Somebody had to get paid for conducting the exam.I would really like to hear the mechanics of this. Did he start in a first grade and then jumped one up every month?How does it work in your country?Edit: We also had to pass PE, for example. Did he actually do the PE on same level as 18 year old kids? IQ won't help you jump high

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:38:01 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 30, 2018, 08:50:05 pmI actually agree with both of you. I think it's important there is a balance. I was bored at school and skipped a year myself, but I stuck it out until Year 10 (instead of going all the way through to year 12), but I went straight into a full time job (which I had since age 14).Nevertheless, school taught me some really important life and social skills. I still socialise with the same group of friends from high school (some even from primary school) to this day. Sure we were a bunch of nerds so when we got together, it was usually for LAN parties (I have fond memories of spending an hour or two trying to get the damn 10BASE2 network going because the terminators were dodgy), but we also did "normal" teenager things like play with fireworks etc...Social and interpersonal skills are just as important as textbook knowledge and problem solving.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:42:16 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 30, 2018, 08:50:05 pmNot for the sake of the group, for the sake of cost and for being able to manage with poor teachers. I assume this kid was homeschooled.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 02:17:26 am
content: Quote"His father said his son had struggled when he was younger to play with other children, and had not been particularly interested in toys." and "If he decided tomorrow to become a carpenter, that would not be a problem for us, as long as he is happy," his father said." His parents aint pushing him he's a really gifted child he's not interested in day to day banality his "head" is and has always been somewhere else maybe mathematics.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 03:34:37 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 01, 2018, 12:36:09 amHe completed "years" 1-2 last June, 3-4 this January and 5-6 this June. Sciences-Mathematics variant.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:00:29 am
content: The first line says it all:QuoteIf he has finished the study and passed the exact same exams as those in secondary school, what is he supposed to do then? Repeat them? That's just silly.He has to move ontosomething.At least in theory, assuming he's learned it all properly which I doubt.QuoteMaybe not a problem, but they'd be bitterly disappointed and probably think he's wasted the opportunity he's been given I'm sure, that's just human nature.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:12:42 am
content: Quote from: Koen on July 01, 2018, 03:34:37 amI'd like to know the logistics behind this.Ok, so he's bored and super smart and talented, but the usual thing in those cases is to look at putting them up a year. At what point does the school re-evaluate the kid every few months and decide to give him the proper grade tests and put him up a grade that quickly each time. Seems dodgy to me, and I can't see that happening that fast in a school here in Australia at least.This kid is only a year older than Sagan (who's in year 2 and has another10 years left). Sorry but I don't see how this is possible given the massive volume of stuff they have to learn these days. Who's teaching him a whole years worth of stuff in a few months? He'd have to have his own full time teacher that is doing some sort of specialised cramming course, you could not do this in ordinary classes, absolutely no way. I call bullshit on that he's learning it all properly that quickly.And I'm also skeptical that the test are being done to the same standard. They develop new tests every year and very likely wouldn't had even had the year end tests ready at those point to give him?Also,QuoteAt that age he had 10 years of learning left, not 6 1/2, what's going on?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:15:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:12:42 amIf any of this has any truth to it at all, I suspect just coaching to take standardized tests.But the whole thing seems fishy.Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:12:42 amHe is a genius, he does not need to be limited by your understanding of time.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:18:55 am
content: Also, my school required us to do some projects that naturally take a lot of time, like growing bean plants from the seed. You can't accelerate nature. Obviously that did not count towards any grade, but you can't claim that you have learned everything if you skip over parts that are not covered by tests.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:19:03 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 01, 2018, 07:15:00 amThat would be my guess, in which case he's going to be rather in-equipped in general education. He is a genius, he does not need to be limited by your understanding of time.ObviouslyAnyone who has a kid in school and knows the amount of work they have to go through, even in the early years knows this is fishy.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:21:50 am
content: Flip side question...Would you hire an engineering graduate who bragged they finished their 4 year degree in 6 months because their university said they were a genius and they passed the tests?If not, why not?If yes, why?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:24:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:21:50 amI always ask about spare time projects, because they show a real passion. And I doubt a person that crammed so much "studying" will have any. But if they do, then yes, sure.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:26:15 am
content: Even if this kid finishes his degree in the standard 4 year time frame (unlikely given the existing scenario) he'll be at best 12 when he graduates. He's screwed employment wise unless he goes into business for himself somehow. He wouldn't even be able to teach at university as no student would respect a 12yo kid.Probably no option but to continue onto graduate research or something.I'm all for accelerating kids with the talent, but this seems beyond ridiculous.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:29:03 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 01, 2018, 07:24:55 amBingo, they won't have any.There is value is "novelty hires" to companies though, so maybe that would actually work.Edit: This kid did it:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-26/meet-the-teen-taking-ibm-and-artificial-intelligence-by-storm/8743880

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:29:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:21:50 amI wouldn't. One word decided it for me: "bragged". If that was their attitude to their achievement, then I would be expecting there to be personality clashes with other team members. No-one wants a Sheldon Cooper aggravating the workplace.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:34:54 am
content: BTW, I don't think there is any way he's going to become a surgeon, that's just not going to work in such a heavily regulated industry. It would likely be illegal to give an underage kid a formal internship etc, so that would limit how far he could get in any set time frame.That computer science kid is a different story, zero regulation there, but I think it would actually be illegal to a hire a 13yo kid in Australia as a full time employee for example. Maybe would have to do it as a contractor or something.It's likely going to be one big legal mess, with many opportunities closed to you because of your age. In this situation I'd probably suggest the best course would be to go and get a degree and then continue on to the PhD, and then you pop out of the system as a legal age but still very novel young PhD grad.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:37:08 am
content: I can't see too many patients being thrilled at the idea of a surgeon who has to stand on a fruit box to reach the operating table.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:39:55 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 01, 2018, 07:29:17 amEven if he didn't actually brag, bragging is kinda inferred anyway at such an extreme unusual thing.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 07:40:41 am
content: Same will go for lawyers. You would have to work as a paralegal for a few years. And realistically knowledge of math will not help you in either case.Although there is a real-life example of such genius actually getting anywhere is life - Terence Tao. Wikipedia quote:QuoteBut note how it says "attending", not and not actually being enrolled.He is also a really cool person, there are a lot of interviews and recordings of his lectures on YouTube, I can recommend watching them.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 08:04:14 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 01, 2018, 07:40:41 amYes, that's not the same as being enrolled like a full time student.Note the PhD graduation at 21 even with such a brilliant exceptional early start. Ok, that's young for a PhD, but it doesn't make you the miracle wonderkid any more.And that's likely going to be the realistic scenario of this Belgian kid.I actually had a bit of a taste of this early success. I was 17, published, and already qualified in engineering when I got my first professional engineering job. Confused the crap out the recruitment agencies. I can remember being surprised when I turned 18 and they didn't automatically raise my pay. I asked why and they said, you don't work at MacDonalds, you were hired as a professional so it doesn't work like that for you kid. Doh.QuoteYes, I've seen a couple of them.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 08:47:54 am
content: Positive criticism is good but it looks like you all are just not believing because it is outside the standards.IMO the standards are the biggest problem of our schools, they teach the mediocre level esp from age 4-11. There is just one program which means the brainwise less gifted children struggle and the more gifted are bored.I was bored at the last four classes finished assignments in 10 minutes while the teacher gave thirty minutes and it made me a clown spending much time in the hallway. Does that help? No! Other children laughed but did not accept me so it taught me to blend in and in highschool I met the 6s standard ( grades are 1-10 a 6 passes ) which all kids did.I am not a genius by far but it must be hell if you are, bored to death and teachers that have no time to give you fun and challenging tasks.Luckily in our country the split is from age 12 up we select in three or four levels seperating the children in those levels. There is much criticism on that since it literally devides society, however from an education POV it is a good thing IMO.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 09:16:01 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:34:54 amThere is no minimum age (at least in NSW).But it used to be 14 years and 9 months before you could start earning a pay cheque. I know this from experience. I landed my first job at around age 14. All of that work for the first 9 months was purely voluntary. Don't get me wrong, I was working with computers and doing what I loved, so money meant nothing to me at that stage.That has since changed by the looks of it, but some companies have a minimum age stipulated within their own corporate policies, for example, McDonalds won't hire anyone under 14 years of age.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 10:49:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:12:42 amAs I said, I think he was homeschooled (kids still have to take official exams). There's also some Montessori type and gifted schools which don't have fixed grade classes at all.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:17:38 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 01, 2018, 09:16:01 amWell I'd LOVE to start paying Sagan a full time wage, nothing at all to do with tax...But you can't work full time if you haven't finished year 10 or are at least 17:http://www.lawstuff.org.au/nsw_law/topics/employment/What-age-can-I-start-workAnd young people can actually get taxed more:https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/investing/in-detail/children-and-under-18s/your-income-if-you-are-under-18-years-old/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:24:04 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 01, 2018, 08:47:54 amFor me it's not a matter of believing that a kid can be years ahead of everyone else, but in this case broad education.This kid is a full10 yearsahead of everyone else. That means to getthe same broad level educationhe has to have crammed all that same 10 years worth of information into the previous years (only a few years by the sounds of it). It doesn't add up, it seems obvious thatsomethinghas to have been scarified to achieve that IMO.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on July 01, 2018, 10:49:14 amYes, it has to be something like that. I can't see a regular state or privately run school allowing a kid to fully progress graduate at such an absurdly young age. At least I can't see that happening here.The youngest in Australia to "sit the HSC" (essentially our final year school/university entrance exam) was 11yo:https://www.smh.com.au/education/study-gifted-children-benefit-from-bypassing-school-for-university-20141223-12cnf0.htmlBut even then it just "sitting the exam", may not actually be fully graduating year 12 at high school.Another 13yo kid "blitzed HSC extension maths", so sounds very much like just passing certain subjects in order to get into a particular university course, of which there is usually no minimum age requirement.

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 12:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 01, 2018, 12:36:09 amOh, even in the USSR that happened occasionally. My younger brother has finished a special "math" secondary school in Moscow when he was 13 , 3-4 years earlier than "normal". That was in the early 1970th.CheersAlex

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 02:59:25 pm
content: Plenty above is wrong. There are articles about him, about his school, about his peers, about his hobbies and about the experts who help him and his family. There's no need to speculate.

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 10:06:10 pm
content: If the story of the film A Beautiful Mind were written by Ataradov then Matt Damon would prepare his janitor-ass to do PE and analyze Jane Eyre, instead of solving math equations that nobody can solve.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 10:08:40 pm
content: Quote from: Echo88 on July 01, 2018, 10:06:10 pmA Beautiful Mind has Russell Crowe in it. You are thinning about Good Will Hunting. And it was at the university, I'm ok with not having PE there.Actually I'm ok with not having PE anywhere. I'm not ok with claiming that you have graduated the school without actually doing everything other students did. This lowers their achievement.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2018, 10:45:19 pm
content: When I was in college, the PE classes for non majors (anyone who does not major in PE or a closely related field) are about a basic understanding of the subject and physically doing well at it is barely considered in the grade - for example, in weightlifting, knowing how to do it safely and correctly is far more important than being able to lift really large amounts of weight.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 03:28:27 am
content: Even assuming everything is good and he goes to college at 8...Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski), a mathematics prodigy and a killer, went to Harvard at 16. At 25, he became the youngest assistant professor at UC Berkeley.He was not emotionally ready for college. It is widely believe that it was his feeling out of place that he became an outcast. A couple of years after Berkeley, he moved to live in the mountain like a hermit, make just enough to live on and to build bombs. In his dozen or so attacks, 3 deaths (I think).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_KaczynskiIt takes more than just knowledge to go to college. It takes emotional maturity as well.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 04:56:39 am
content: As if one bad example would be significant for the whole group, I think there are more terrorists without extreme high iq that never made university before age 10

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 05:01:24 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 02, 2018, 04:56:39 amNo, but that's a good argument against encouraging this king of skipping ahead. Even if regular school drags some genius behind a bit.You can not ignore recommendation of psychologists and child development specialists if you want a healthy society on a big scale. And that's what public education aims to do.It is fine of some people here and there do things at an accelerated rate, of course.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 05:48:13 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 02, 2018, 03:28:27 amThis is, IMHO, a more important factor in the success of higher learning than the ability to understand the material being taught.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 05:48:38 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 12:17:38 pmI'm sure someone has already tried that on at some stage.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 06:14:22 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2018, 08:33:10 pmThere. Fixed it for you.QuoteNo amount of pushing can accomplish *that*. He must have been willing and able.QuoteMaybe. Is that a bad thing?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 07:42:49 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 02, 2018, 05:01:24 amNo it is a terrible argument since this kind of terrorist behaviour indicates a lack of moral conscience which is something developed (or not) before the age of 4.Or as we have seen in the last years can be programmed in peoples mind feeding them continuously hatefull bad information.It has nothing to do with if someone at a young age is gifted in something and that gift is stimulated, at later age that all can become balanced again.We are discussing things here none of us are experts at, so we are talking out of our behind.If some psychologists came on this forum discussing electronic circuits on this level we would beall the time.

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 08:13:00 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 02, 2018, 07:42:49 am1) ~90% of psychology is BS anyway (and I did a full psychology course in the uni as a part of my degree) and the child development psychology even more so.2) Skipping some school years if you can do it (speaking from a personal experience) can be very beneficial in some respects (personal development) and difficult in other respects (social interactions). I wouldn't exchange the first for the second though but it is me, for someone else it may be different.3) IMHO, if you are not challenged enough in your school years it is not just a waste of valuable time, but it suppresses your future development very badly. If you are lucky, a good teacher can be a lot of help in this respect, but not many teachers can provide the necessary support.4) I wish all the best to this Belgian boy, it won't be an easy life for him but it could be a lot of fun.CheersAlexP.S. - you can not force this kind of development, it is always the result of child's own intent, and adults (parents and teachers) can only support it or arrest it, the second is more common, unfortunately.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 11:53:36 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 01, 2018, 07:40:41 amI find it a pity that people like this so often find their happiness working on what is essentially advanced numerology. Sure there is a chance that one of those number theorems will be the basis of something useful, but it's not entirely likely. It would be nice if the brightest gravitated towards the fields which most contribute to human welfare. At this point prime number theory ain't it.Could be worse though, he could have spend his time as an investment quant.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 02:20:15 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 02, 2018, 03:28:27 amAgreed and going from the Wikipedia, it's likely he has autism, hence why he found it so difficult to interact with older children. I suppose autism wasn't widely known about back then, so it's excusable.Quote from: chris_leyson on July 01, 2018, 02:17:26 amGoing from that, it seems likely he also has autism, which is more common in child geniuses. If that's the case, sending him to university will not fix this. I think more time should be spent on improving his social skills, rather than on academia.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 06:30:31 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 02, 2018, 04:56:39 amI agree one example does not describe the whole group. But it would be foolish not to consider emotional aspects. Even with grade-skipping, it could cause more emotional harm than it does academic good.Just think about typical human behavior - who would be the class leader? The person who is more mature/older or the one that is younger and acting like one? So, in my estimation, the one entering a class a few years younger than his/her classmate will more likely become follower than leader, more likely to be timid than assertive...I'd rather have a leader graduating on-time than a follower graduating a year sooner.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 06:41:47 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 30, 2018, 10:02:58 pmPower electronics education you say? That sounds very familiar to me. Came to the uni only to find out it won't give me anything new. Really nothing. They teach only mainly stupid SCR stuff, then jump occasionally to IGBT, when clearly, the professor has little clue how these are used nowdays and how some of the DC/DC topologies look like. The other interest I came for the uni was motor control. Not that much new to me either (some fundamentals of control theory help a lot) - however the rest is just teaching garbage, sometimes not even close to the field of study. Like stupid economics, ecology, history (but not that technical one really). Jeez, I am now pissed at the uni.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 06:47:03 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on July 02, 2018, 06:41:47 pmThat's your problem with not understanding what the goals of the university are. If you need immediate practical knowledge on a specific subject, you need to look for training courses.The goal of the university is to give you a way of thinking that lasts.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 08:00:41 pm
content: What training courses do you have in mind specifically? Could you tell please?I am fascinated by how sure you are about the state in which a university teaching is on a different continent.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 08:06:30 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on July 02, 2018, 08:00:41 pmI don't know what courses apply in your field of interest.Quote from: Yansi on July 02, 2018, 08:00:41 pmThat stuff is pretty universal as far as I can see.But for sure, continue to be disappointed with your university experience.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 09:20:06 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 02, 2018, 06:30:31 pmI rather follow someone who knows what he is talking about rather than someone assertive talking bullocksThere are plenty of examples of so called assertive leaders with an iq of an ant and the ego of a gorilla.But that is all besides the point, sure he won't be accepted by the group right away with the age difference besides of the iq difference. Does it matter? Ask him, perhaps he is happy with his studies and math puzzles just as a lot of our forum members are happy in their electronic shacks playing with T&M equipment and their buttons. Sure a social life is important which gets addressed automatically when he gets older. Perhaps he will find a gf with a same iq and interest or someone who is attracted to his intelligence.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2018, 11:30:46 pm
content: Ok, I understand the issue with maturity being a problem in university. This is valid if you mix a 14-16 year old with 20-30 year old. The way the 14-16 year old may be treated by the other older students may cause one type of mental maddening situation. While, at home or vacation & trying to maintain friends who also have to deal with a special unusual situation.But I think many of us here aren't carefully paying attention to the fact that this kid is 8 years old. In the above case, I expect the 14-16 year old to be shunned and isolated in many ways which can be brutal. But when it comes to the 20-30 year olds being in class with an 8 year old, the equation is truly different and undefined. Yes, the 8 year old will still not be in with any outside older activities, but, I would not expect the 20-30 years olds treating an 8 year old as a younger graduate. Even they must realize they are dealing with a real child 12 years younger and when in front of him, they will behave differently compared to being around a student only 4-5 years younger.Think along the lines of having a 4 year younger brother, when you were 16, how would you treat them. I have experience here. Now, imagine you are 20 with an 8 year old aged brother. You wont be giving your 8 year old brother the same treatment.Also, being 8, I don't believe Laurent Simons friends of 7 to 9 year olds will shun him for going to university in the same way a 14 year old's 13-15 year old friends.So, I say, yes, there will be development issues, but, in this special ultra young 8 year old's case, I don't think it will the nightmare scenario a few here are proposing.

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 11:15:56 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 02, 2018, 11:30:46 pmYes, I think you are quite correct. Even 1-2 years could make a lot of difference. I was two years younger than my classmates at the school, and that made my life there a sheer hell for most of the time. Did me a lot of good, actually, I can not complain. My little brother was 3-4 years younger than his classmates and had no trouble whatsoever, he was cared for and protected, and his mates were proud to have him around.CheersAlex

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 03:17:39 pm
content: There are many studies of gifted, prodigy or geniuses, however the latter is defined.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geniushttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/8028543/Gifted-children-no-more-likely-to-succeed.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/05/20/the-benefits-and-pressures-of-being-a-young-genius/often-child-prodigies-do-not-grow-into-adult-genius

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 05:27:10 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on July 03, 2018, 03:17:39 pmI don't think anyone here believed this boy must grow into some advanced 'brainiac' genius. And those articles are worded/driven to the same mistake. Many of these children are just advanced for their age. Usually this means they will most likely hit their potential much younger too. If you look at my posts, I never said Laurent Simons was to become a genius. However, he has the opertunity and time to study/major in more than 1 specialty at college level. Something I'm envious of.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 08:09:47 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 03, 2018, 05:27:10 pmUnfortunately they're often also delayed in in other aspects: socially and emotionally, even if they don't full-fill the diagnostic criteria for an autism spectrum disorder. They may catch up in other aspects later, but sending them to university and not allowing them to mix with children their own age will not help.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 08:34:28 am
content: Unless he's as well ahead in social skills as in tech matters, he's gonna have a hard time at the uni. If he's introverted or autistic or an asperger a thick skin would serve him well. Any intelligent student will clash not only with some other students, but with some teachers as well.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 08:52:30 am
content: That has already been discussed.Since he has the physique of a young boy he probably will not be challenged as an adult or perceived as a competitive "threat" by other students.The only problem he probably will encounter is that his peers will underestimate him and not teach him on the level he requires, the same as in another topic intelligent women are treated as nono's by technical people

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 09:07:21 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 05, 2018, 08:52:30 amNot adequately in my opinion. He may actually need extra help beyond what a typical child that age will require, even if he doesn't go to university.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 09:15:17 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on July 05, 2018, 09:07:21 amSo who says he will not get that extra attention and support? Who says he has a problem? Who says that this will even occurr? Are you a child psychologist? Just saying there are so many assumptions and biased opinions it makes no sense to discuss this whole topic without more information and expert knowledge.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 01:01:16 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 05, 2018, 09:15:17 amI just find it very hard to believe a child who lacks interest in interacting with his peers, showing more interest in maths, is emotionally and socially normal for his age.My point was is it's great he's ahead academically but it's far more important to focus on the areas he might be struggling with, than what he's naturally good at.I agree. We need more information. That's the problem with this thread. A lot of it is speculation.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 12:07:20 am
content: Answers to the previous pages can be found in the many articles about him.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 09:52:03 pm
content: Nine months later... He'll graduate as an electrical engineer at age 9...https://interestingengineering.com/first-9-year-old-to-graduate-from-university

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:09:52 pm
content: He's probably watched a bit too much of The big bang theory...Although Sheldon would laugh hysterically at him for choosing an engineering path.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:17:50 pm
content: I hope the poor little guy goes on to do a couple of extra degrees or a PhD to fill in another couple of years. He won't be able to legally work for a fair while.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on November 12, 2019, 10:17:50 pmYeah. Also, I don't know what kind of value he would really have on the job market once he reaches the legal age, if he graduated years ago without ever working professionally after that... so sure we can wonder what he's going to do now. But yeah, likely a PhD or several.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:44:18 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on November 12, 2019, 09:52:03 pmQuote:QuoteThat right there is the entirety of this story.When he hits his early to mid 20's he'll be just like everyone else. Probably smarter than most, with a photographic memory for sure, but apart from that he won't be special any more.Being this smart this early doesn't mean he'll be the next Elon Musk, or win a Nobel prize for curing cancer or something.What did the previous record holder end up like, now 35yo:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_KearneyHe won a million bucks on a game show, but didn't do so well on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.He got his PhD at 22He's done some researching and some teaching, which of course is admirable, but nothing special for the previous worlds smarted kid.Wiki has his occupation as Improv Comedian?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 12, 2019, 10:09:52 pmThe Oompa-Loompa's of the science world!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:49:29 pm
content: Maybe his thesis could be something like 'A practical method for global scale Carbon capture to reduce atmospheric CO2 concentration' with a possible follow up of 'A method for large scale Solar powered ice generation, with the aim of reduce sea levels'.If he finishes those by the time he's 20 we may all be in with a chance.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 10:55:15 pm
content: Dave, it's possible that you're right: He might not become the next Einstein or Musk.But at the same time, I think a strong memory can be an important part of being successful in most technical professions. A good engineer must be able to connect lots of dots in order to design/troubleshoot a system. For me, troubleshooting is usually polling my memory banks for previous experiences, things I've read on forums or in books, things I learned in school, etc. If you can't pull in those memories, you'll probably have a hard time figuring out the issue.My point is: I think a good memory can give you a strong advantage in the real-world. But of course, good memory alone is just part of the picture. He'll need creativity, passion, and things like that too.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 11:11:20 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 12, 2019, 10:44:18 pmWhen you are that smart you realize that life is a big jokeOn a serious note when he can graduate any study in two years time he can do math, physics, ee, me, informatics before he is 20.One of the major advantages one thinks AI might contribute to the world is the ability to combine all sciences and hopefully gain new knowledge from that, which single educated humans are not capable of combining all that knowledge.The advantage of an AI is that it never dies or looses any of its previous learnings if the backups are made properly. The disadvantage if the current AIs is that they are hard to teach and they are quite stupid compared to human brains.This kid might well have a very bright future, but indeed also a chance not to.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 11:13:51 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on November 12, 2019, 10:55:15 pmSure, no argument from me. And that's why I said he'll be smarter than most.The issue with child prodigies like this is that people kinda expect they'll change the world or do something incredible with their life. The reality is they are most likely to just end up like everyone else, as there are other factors at play that determine if they'll be the next Einstein, Gary Kasparov, or Mozart.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 11:18:50 pm
content: In related news, Huxley will be going to Kindergarten next year, he'll be the youngest in the year by several months. Majority of kids will be 12 to 22 months older. Sagan, born the same month, was the 2nd or 3rd youngest.Seems that everyone is holding their kids back now so they'll be "smarter" than the other kids.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 11:19:18 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 12, 2019, 11:13:51 pmDefinitely.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 11:30:14 am
content: Quote from: Augustus on November 12, 2019, 09:52:03 pmHow is it even possible to cram a whole EE degree into 9 month? No mandatory labs, projects, dated assignments, presentations, etc.? How could he even sign up for every single exam in one or two exam periods?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 12:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 02, 2018, 05:48:38 amActually, come to think of it, what's to stop a company paying for a child content creator, just like child actors and models etc. Sure the money would have to go into a trust fund or something, but this has to be possible...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 12:55:45 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on November 13, 2019, 11:30:14 amYeah, seems dodgy. There must be special treatment afforded, and special tests given upon request. Kid memorises past exams, practices, and passes.Standard practice at university is tonotallow you to take on too many subjects at once.Seems it's only a 3 year degree, not 4 years:https://www.tue.nl/en/education/bachelor-college/bachelor-electrical-engineering/and you need 60 credits:https://www.tue.nl/en/education/bachelor-college/bachelor-electrical-engineering/course-structure/https://studiegids.tue.nl/opleidingen/bachelor-college/majors/electrical-engineering/

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 12:57:37 pm
content: With a few well meaning profs it's possible, couple decades ago pretty much all bachelor classes except one or two lab classes were tested only by final exam and with a little begging they would schedule one for you if you had good reason. they would probably still be free to do so when they elect. Master classes tended to be project oriented and given by more important staff, not very suited to rushing without a lot of 1:1 time dedicated by busy important people which I doubt they will be enthusiastic about.But assuming it's bachelors EE that probable leaves one or two semesters with mandatory lab classes, all the exams and final project, which could be done fast when it's not external.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 02:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2018, 07:12:42 amBeing a child who both skipped grade/courses and took advanced math courses one summer to learn and test out of Geometry, Algebra I, and Algebra II as part ofSMPY, I can comment on some of the likely logistics. Skipping grades (though obviously not to the extent that Laurent did) is fairly straightforward. Testing out of subjects was done (IIRC; it's been 35+ years) by doing coursework from the same textbook the class used, basically 6-8 hours a day, with two roving tutors working with the class of perhaps 15, then taking the placement exam basically anytime I was ready. Over the course of three weeks, I knocked out those three courses and started [but did not finish] Algebra III. On something like those math courses, it's quite straightforward and I think most people could learn the coursework in a month of full time study (that's more or less the effort devoted to each subject in a typical middle or high school). It's hardly surprising that someone a few standard deviations above the median could do it 5x as fast. In my case, the exams seemed completely legitimate and felt appropriate to the coursework. There are course credential tests available for homeschooling parents. One does not need to rely on the school preparing a new test or other logistical non-hurdles.It doesn't strike me as particularly impossible to learn STEM subjects at a rate 5-10x (or even 20x) as fast as the typical "drag it out" pace of high school. The amount of "Miss Foobar; I did the problem a different way and got a different answer; is that OK?" nonsense waiting on the other kids to catch up is incredibly wasteful and represents a fair amount of the determining factor of the pace of schooling. (It has to be; you can't and shouldn't teach to the top of the class; ideally you teach to the broad middle or even slightly below, but there's a lot of pressure to teach to the 5th or 10th percentile pace.)For me, I feel like I graduated high school with an entire extra year of healthy adult life ahead of me. What is an extra year of free adult life worth? I'm sure Laurent has some hurdles ahead of him (mainly socially, as did I), but if I'm going to make errors in raising my own children, it is more likely to be in favor of offering them acceleration, enrichment, and additional academic (and athletic and experiential) opportunities than it is to be in the direction of holding them back, plopping them in front of televisions, or making them "do their time" in the interest of social cohesion with kids who are less capable in areas in which they are skilled. We get maybe 50 years of reasonably healthy, reasonably self-directed adult time. Given someone one more year of that is like giving them a 2% bonus on the fat, sweet spot of life.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 03:23:30 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on November 13, 2019, 02:10:16 pmAnd therein lies the issue.There is no research that says accelerating kids this early makes them any better at anything in their adult years, but it does potentially deprive them of a normal and fun childhood with all the associated social development.I can understand a year or two early, that's fine (and very normal) but having your 9yo attend and graduate university just turns them into a freak show. I actually feel sorry for the kid.If he's bored there are countless things you can get him to do instead of graduate him 8-9 years early from school and throw him into university and then have him graduate 9 months later, to then what?...

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 04:08:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 12, 2019, 11:18:50 pmThat's interesting, my 4 year old wasn't eligible to start school for being too young. My son will be the same since he was born only a month(and 2 years) later. What is the minimum age there?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 04:28:27 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 14, 2019, 04:08:48 amhttps://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/enrol-nsw-public-primary-schoolQuoteSo if your kids 4yo and born on 31st July, they could be going to Kindergarten with 6yo kids born in Feb, so 20 months potential difference.Like I said, was common when I was kid to go as soon as you could. Then for Sagan (now 8yo) it was fairly rare. Now with Huxley, even with him being born in May, he will be the youngest in the entire year by almost two months. It's very "trendy" now to hold your kids back a year so they can be "smarter" than the younger kids.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 05:34:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2019, 04:28:27 amGot it, pretty much the same here(5 by september 2). Since their birthdays are early in the year(february and march or may), which makes them just too young, they'll start when they're only a few months from being 6 years old. Seems late to me but I think it'd be the same thing there. That is an odd trend to basically wait a year. For most of my schooling I was a couple years younger than classmates so I'd think being the oldest would make you feel stupid, not smart. Nobody wants to leave grade school at 19 years old.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 09:51:45 pm
content: Imagine such a genius prodigy "Doogie Houser" type becoming a brilliant doctor at a young age and saving your life. Let's for the sake of argument say he has no bedside manner... do you really care if he ends up saving your arse? Are we to be so disappointed if a kid is brilliant at coding and electronics and invents the next greatest billion dollar company, but has developed minimally in other "soft" areas? Who cares? How much time do we "waste" in school learning stuff that will never even remotely be applied. I'm not saying we should ignore the value of getting a broad-based diverse education... there are plenty of advantages for people who can "bridge" ideas between varying disciplines and create innovation. But if a kid knows the basics (enough to pass University entrance exams for specific area of study) then let him or her keep learning as much as they want. Their psychological health may or may not be correlated... it is up to parents, teachers and whoever is involved in this child's life to monitor their mental health and make sure they are not getting too stressed or burning out and keep them balanced and psychologically stable.

author: jesuscf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 09:03:12 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on November 13, 2019, 11:30:14 amBingo! Maybe a close scrutiny of the 'Electrical Engineering' degree offered by the Eindhoven University of Technology is in order here. I have been trying to find the syllabus of some of their Electrical Engineering courses, but nothing so far.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 05:21:20 pm
content: It is not uncommon to get exemptions / dispensations if you can proof you already have the knowledge gathered.Since he already had university level math knowledge and other sciences he probably had plenty of those.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 07:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 17, 2019, 05:21:20 pmTrue. And if the little boy managed to get exemptions for this at his young age, unless he benefited from special treatment, it's clearly even more exceptional than him just getting such a degree, which was already pretty amazing by itself.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:08:55 am
content: Granted, little Laurent might be smart, but he lacks life experience. One would wish this kid the best for the future. Hopefully he will be happy and find some balance and can be a kid, and maybe a normal adult. It appears his parents are well adjusted. We have a problem in Australia where a few parents from a certain background push their kids so hard for top academic results at all costs, the kids have no holidays, no social life, and no childhood. Do they want what is best for the child? They often use the kids to save face. IMO, these are toxic parents - it is they who need educating.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 12:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 18, 2019, 11:08:55 amThe unfortunate part about life is that you can't chose your parents.It would be easy for me push Sagan and Huxley into electronics at a young age, but I prefer to just let them be kids and support whatever thing they seem naturally interested in.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:41:46 pm
content: It could go both ways, few weeks ago there was an interview with some asian pianist who was pushed by his parents and he was now very gratefull since he is in the top10 best musicians and pretty rich.If he would not have made it , it would probably be a totally different story.Don't romanticize childhood since many kids these days grow up in the concrete valley, no playground, no wood, no soccer field, just concrete and traffic and their youth is spent gaming online.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:16:20 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 18, 2019, 02:41:46 pmBingo.And how many people "make it"?

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 06:34:39 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 11:16:20 pmI will add some more:How many ones are forced by the parents just because it looks good when trying to enter a prestigious school or because of someone who was able to get there, so all parents think that their own kid will do to?In Portugal because of the Football (or Soccer if you are in the other side of the pond) star Cristiano Ronaldo, now every father put his kid in football, even if the kid never was interested in Football or even is that good on it. They even have some fights during games between parents because of that. I know cases of kids who got his parents badmouthing them and calling them stupid or other kind of proper insults because the kid is just not fit for football, it can't really be better than lower average.You can't ask a kid that have talent to music to try to place itself in a National Football Team. Even if you have a lot of practice that doesn't mean you are going to be better than average. Now you ask, what kind of talent then the kid have if you don't make him try new things? How about let him try things and see what he really likes to do. If he doesn't like, let him go and try a new thing. Naturally he will find something he likes and wants to keep doing.With me it was IT and Electronics/Electricity, but my mom also tried me to do sports (swimming) and at school I had the chance of doing all kind of sports from football, handball, basketball, baseball, volleyball and even track running but none of them stuck with me. But I had friends who were good at basketball and even played in a regional team, winning some championships, and one of them were a player who were scouted to the Barcelona FC sub-18 football team. But because of an operation to his knee he stopped playing football at 24 years old. TToday, after he finished his Human Resources Degree,he is well positioned in a known supermarket retail company. He was good with football, he even said that, but even when he was doing that, he continued studying to Human Resources, his true call.Competition in every scope and activity is super fierce, kids nowardays should go with the mentality that yes, they can be very good in a field, but that doesn't mean that others will not be as good or better. Then it's up to them if they want to keep trying and improve or if they will hit a wall that they can't climb. There should not be a shame into fail, the shame is to not even try.But now someone asks, who I am to say something when I don't even have kids? Well, I'm waiting for mine to born (End of January) and probably my thinking will change after that, as someone without experience as a father, I may be totally wrong in what I written above. But I will try to remember what I've done and adjust in accordance of what I want for my kid. For him/her to find something that he/she likes, and give him/her the education and the means to pursuit it.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:50:18 am
content: I wouldn't even count on the eevblog being around by time you know what kind of father you are(were) so good luck to you. Just do your best.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 10:22:24 am
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on November 19, 2019, 06:34:39 amI think you still want to exercise some guidance as a parent (and it’s well within your “right” to do so). Unconstrained, kids will find they love TV, Doritos, YouTube, iPad games, and Fortnite. Just like we make them eat vegetables, we should make them try a variety of healthful and engaging activities.But yes, no sense forcing a fish to ride a bicycle. (But you can force them to try and later to try swimming.)Quote from: Black Phoenix on November 19, 2019, 06:34:39 amAbsolutely this. Imagine that there are 100 million people the same age as you or your child. If a school you want to get into accepts 1000 per year, the general odds are 1 in 100 thousand. Maybe you have a 10:1 advantage by circumstance of birth, but you’re still a 10000:1 shot the day you’re born. Way better chances than a lottery, but still an interesting mix of simultaneously a long shot but a reasonable one to contemplate making.As above, you want to find the thing you love and have skills at, not only because it’s much easier to make the top 1% of 1% of things you love doing, but much more importantly, that you’ll enjoy your orbits of the nearby star a lot more whether or not you make even the top 10% of the field.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:02:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 11:16:20 pmTrue, but if you don't try or get the chance to try you are sure you will not make it.The whole point here is if Laurent is pushed against his will and interest into this endeavour, right?It sure does not look like that from what I can read about it.So if your son would solve university math equations at age5 and ask you that he likes to learn more, would you say no? Here is a ball go outside and play with the other kids ?Which is a totally different story than forcing a kid to learn university math because you want him to.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:31:10 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 19, 2019, 11:02:28 amNo normal child is doing university level math at age 5. They would only be doing that because their parents pushed them to.They might still enjoy it of course, but no 5yo kid is going to give a natural rats arse about solving integrals.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 12:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on November 19, 2019, 10:22:24 amAbsolutely.One volunteer is worth ten conscripts.I once was invited to give a talk to the Chinese Professional Society on educating kids effectively. I had also given the same talk to two other large groups. During the talk, a summary of what I said was:1. Don't pressure your kids to compete for marks - just tell them that you expect them to do THEIR best and nothing more.2. Do not give them tangible rewards or punishment based on specific marks. It is tantamount to bribery.3. Give the kids space in their senior high school to hang out with friends, participate in a hobby, church, music, sport, ironing the clothes whilst watching TV, or whatever that has nothing to do with study.4. Do NOT push them into doing medicine because YOU want them to do that even though they might not be interested. Don't have them follow the money, or "prestige" because you get to save face. Let them do a course of study for a profession THEY are interested in and have a talent to pursue.5. Why I believe private schools are waste of money.6. Support and encourage your kids, but don't over-control them. LISTEN to your kids.I gave examples of horror stories I had witnessed. Also I demonstrated implementing the above where my three kids excelled academically and earned their degrees/Masters/PhD's in areas that interested them and all went on to fulfilling careers. I have seen far too many people pushed into engineering by their parents or culture, but they just see it as a job and nothing more and are not happy - some retrain for something they enjoy doing. I expected my talk to upset a few in the audience and not see many happy faces at the end. To my surprise, they all applauded and one couple came up to me thanking me profusely. The society later sent me a certificate of appreciation. It made my day.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 01:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 19, 2019, 11:31:10 amYou are right, I don't think these genius kids are "normal".They are the extreme rare exceptions. One in a hundred million perhaps.Normally if they are lucky they encounter math problems after age 10 and then get noticed, but if a kid already shows interest in a younger age and excels in some puzzles/problems why not stimulate ?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

author: SerieZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 10:29:24 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 19, 2019, 12:22:14 pmI do agree with most points you've made but I simply have no Idea how anyone can have Faith in something such as Government implemented Public Schools.Personally I have been in several public schools during my child-teenhood thanks to travelling Parents and I can only attest absolute and utter incompetence in anything Governments do wherever you go (even Switzerland) except raking in Tax Dollars.True waste of Money.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 02:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: SerieZ on November 22, 2019, 10:29:24 amIt is probably different in Australia (well, certainly in Victoria). Many of our government schools are amazing and our teachers hard working and very dedicated. I know, being on a school council for a few years. One reason why foreigners try to move here... quality education for their kids.My kids went to a government public secondary school nearby. In final year of high school, one got a perfect score (only 3 student in the state achieved this) in Systems and Technology, earning an award personally presented by the then Premier of Victoria, and he was one of the top students overall in his VCE (final year). The son was the top student in Engineering and Computer Science double degree in University and was awarded a trip to the Apple conference in the USA.Another did not want to do maths in her final years, but I convinced her it is good to do maths as it will help develop a logical brain; and maths ability will be useful throughout her life. She was crying because it was so hard at the start of Year 11. But at the end of Year 12, she was one of the top students in the state in maths, getting her name in a major newspaper for a near perfect score in the subject. In Year 11, she had won a full scholarship to an exclusive private school, and attended the private school for only two weeks before rejecting it, promising she will do just as well in the government school, if not better. The daughter then did a few undergrad degrees and completed her PhD at Melbourne Uni in record time, then moved to France where she did a masters in International Relations at the University of Strasbourg.As for me, I went to a reputedly one of the worst government high schools around. My widowed mum could not afford to send me to the nearby "exclusive" local private school. But I got though and entered university to study engineering. No private school needed.Many government schools here are excellent, and a student with good attitude and aptitude and supportive parents will do just as well in a public school as a private school, and usually better at university if they choose that path because at university they are not hand-fed information just to get marks. The old boys club from private schools means nothing in this country any more. It's in the past when some level of class distinction from English culture existed here, and is fortunately now gone. However, some parents still send their kids into exclusive private schools for the prestige, ie: to save face. A lot of these private schools have a Christian facade, but the reality is they they will accept anyone with money. Even atheists with money send their kids to these schools. In advanced academia, the old boys club means nothing.Some private schools here cost >$40,000 per year per student; and many are around $35,000 per year. Government schools cost no more than $2000 per year as a contribution. In engineering there is no way of telling whether an engineer went to a private school or a government school.Hence why I believe private schools are on the whole, a waste of money. It might not be the same for other countries or states.

author: SerieZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 02:37:30 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 22, 2019, 02:17:15 pmI believe you, but to me that is Anecdotal at best.What my (Anecdotalas well) Experience is that the Politician who advocate for more Public School end up sending their Kids to Private ones and are only interested in looking good/pushing their Agenda onto the youngest.I wonder why?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 09:05:09 pm
content: I think we are conflated a few related issues into one.High-IQ geniusvschild prodigy, andlearnvsdo.By definition, achild prodigymerely means theycan do certain things at a much younger agethan average. A very young kid performing say piano at concert quality is a child prodigy. That kid probably also have higher than average IQ but not necessarily so, and certainly not necessarily a genius level high IQ. Whereas, the kid who went to college at 8 probably has a high IQ. The one who is about to graduate at 9 has an IQ of 145 per the linked article.Drawing from the knowledge ofJordan Peterson(Clinical Psychologist, Professor of Psychology at U of Toronto) and from his on-line youtube lectures:(A)One with higher IQ learns faster,but doesn't mean doing it any better;(B)Higher the IQ,slowerthe maturity - both mental and physical;(C)While IQ changes during the life time, but it is largely determined by genetics. Absent brain damage of some sort, the high-IQer would stay a high-IQer in his/her life time. (That is assuming no deprivation during development - such as not enough nutrition during early stage which will prevent one to develop to the level suggested by one's genes).(D)Absorbingknowledge andabsorbedknowledge are different. Once the knowledge absorbed, the person can have a physical damage slowing him/her down in learning but that will not affect already absorbed knowledge at all (unless that part of the brain is also damaged).( PS: Please do not debate the other thing Jordan is famous for - his out outspokenness on his objection to the Canada C16 law as compelled speech. That is not relevant to this issue at hand. )The rest are not directly from Jordan but from what I surmised after learning from his on-line lectures and other sources:Child Prodigy (without an associating much higher than average IQ) merely means that he/she started playing violin as good or better than other concert violinist very young, but as time goes on other younger kids with good violin aptitude will catch up. Often, at that time the child prodigy as grown-up got depressed that "I am no longer special". That "no longer special" situation is very difficult to get over and is one of the reason why child prodigy doesn't always result in a happy and successful adulthood.On the other hand, kids with exceedingly high IQ will (on average) be able to learn faster than others with lower IQ. The higher-IQer are "running faster". Thus, as long as that higher-IQ keeps running,the lower-IQer can never catch upbecause they cannot run as fast. The delta will just keep getting bigger. That said, while the higher-IQer learn (say EE) quicker than average, it doesn't mean he/she designs better than average.Here is wherenature is playing a cruel gameon us. If you are very high IQ, you can go to college at a very young age with the older and more mature kids.On average, you are not even as mature as people in your own age groupand now you are up against the older and more matured college age kids... But if you do manage to get there (there being your goal) even if immaturely, you can stay ahead and get further than others.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 09:58:38 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on November 22, 2019, 09:05:09 pmYet there seems to be little to no evidence that the high IQ's who graduated super early go on to be be more successful?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 10:04:36 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 22, 2019, 02:17:15 pmI went to literally the worst public high school in the country, famously documented in front page news around the country.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 01:13:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 22, 2019, 09:58:38 pmToo bad we don't have solid IQ information on most of the successful individuals out there. One can only use reasoning to guess at the answer.I think your question actually points to the proof that "learning faster" alone is not adequate a lift into automatic success. Only the few that can "learning faster", "do better", and "can handle the maturity issue" have a chance of fully enjoy the gift of a high IQ. Missing any one of the three may turn a blessing into a curse.In one of my earlier replies in this thread, I cited the Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski) example. According to Wikipedia, he has 167 IQ and started university early and graduated younger than average. But his inability to handle the social interaction issues led him to eventual life-imprisonment.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 01:55:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 22, 2019, 09:58:38 pmPlenty of evidence. Education-wise they are definitely successful because they met their goals - even if they drive taxis.Successful is merely achieved ones goals. Osama Bin Laden was success for a long time. Unfortunately most people equate success to money, which is nonsense unless it is their prime goal. Another annoyance is the term "he or she is highly sophisticated. To me that means complex. Most engineers are highly sophisticated, albeit sometimes socially challenged. Sophisticated is not the Kim Kardashboards of this world who have little talent other than self-promotion.One thing I do note in my engineering career is those with high IQ does not necessarily mean that have common sense, the ability to handle one's finances, or the ability to relate to people.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 02:14:32 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on November 23, 2019, 01:13:44 amTed Bundy had an IQ of 136. Another killer, Nathan Leopold, had an IQ of 210 and graduated from Uni of Michigan at age 17. He apparently spoke 15 languages.Robert Stroud (the Birdman of Alcatraz) had an IQ of 136. But most criminals, contrary to popular opinion, have a low IQ and are dumb enough to get caught.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 05:25:23 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 23, 2019, 02:14:32 amAccording to the article (OP's link on the 8 year old going to college), the father said: "If he decided tomorrow to become a carpenter, that would not be a problem for us, as long as he is happy,"The criteria for happiness changes at different stages in life. A kid may be happy driving a taxi for now, 10 years later with a wife, a mortgage, and a baby coming... Now, driving a taxi is not as happy as say another occupation with twice the income. A better education before becoming a taxi driver may make the difference now, and higher IQ certainly would be a helping factor then or now.So, I suspect, if given a choice, anyone would prefer higher IQ rather than lower. As for me, even with the risk of becoming another Ted Bundy or worst, I wish I have/had a higher IQ and a better education. A risk free life is impossible anyhow.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 10:07:35 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 23, 2019, 01:55:46 amOk, so they met their goals early, great, congratulations. Now what?It's 10 years later and they aren't special any more and they are just as "successful" as everyone else. Beating most other people in a 40-50 year career race by 5 years doesn't mean much in the scheme of things. It's like sprinting in an 800m race. You might be 100 yards ahead for a while, but eventually everyone of a similar capability catches up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 10:11:34 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on November 23, 2019, 01:13:44 amLike I quoted above, the previous world record holder hasn't fared great. He's into stand-up comedy now?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_KearneyEDIT: Seems someone has removed the reference to standup comedy.Found this, he's been doing, in his own words "whatever":

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 10:14:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2019, 10:07:35 amI can also relate. I worked in the IT industry when I was 14 years old. By the time I was 18 and going for jobs in large national organisations, I was up against everyone else. In a way, my age was a disadvantage and in some ways it still is (I'm now in my 30's). Even now I have to work harder and achieve more because my rank/position is atypical for someone of my age and people have this impression that at certain ages, you should be achieving or earningx. I was always the youngest at school and am generally the youngest among my peers and colleagues. I frequently sit in meetings and on panels with people old enough to be my parents and even though I have the experience, qualifications and certifications to prove my worth, I'm still looked down upon by some.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:45:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2019, 10:11:34 amQuote from: Halcyon on November 23, 2019, 10:14:29 amHere hides the irony of the "cruel game", isn't it. High IQ gives you a head start and higher potential, but high IQ is not an assurance of success. It is a cruel irony that one with higher IQ will be up against worst odds - by likely being behind one's peers in maturity, experience, and perceived stature.I don't think we can find a definition of success that we can all agree on. Someone may just see being a stand-up comedian as what he/she wants to be and thus a being one is a huge success. Others may want to be a auto-mechanic and being that would is a huge success. Both being comedian or being mechanic likely could have been accomplished equally well by someone with much lower IQ, but what the heck, the guy is happy so he succeeded. Right?I used to be in the camp "as long as he/she is happy" but then I came to conclude that one may eventually asks "who moved my cheese". So I came to conclude that availability of options is an important criteria for sustained happiness. So, the more options one has, the more successful one is.Having a good education (job qualification) and resource (money) is probably a good way to have more options - money to last till you find the moved cheese and acceptability (job qualification) when you do find it. Better yet, once one stores up enough resources (money in the bank), one has one's own stock of cheese that no others can move. Now one can spend one's time planning for the next expedition to the Himalayas, or the next trip to the local pub, or even buy your own pub so you can be the stand-up comedian there without ever worry about being kicked out.Having higher IQ helps both in education and income, so from my perspective having higher IQ increases thepotentialof being happy, but it is not a guarantee to happiness and theprobabilityof success is probably lower than average due to nature's cruel game.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 08:33:14 am
content: Yesterday there was a tv interview with this kid and his parents.The kid seemed quit normal actually, fun , laughing, did not know if he wanted to become a F1 racing driver, or neuro surgeon or DJ, so quite normal for his age I would sayThe parents esp the father however made a different impression on me (as far as you can get one from a tv interview that is). He and his wife now put their lives in duty of that of their son, hmmmmmmmMany universities over the world want this kid. But he (the kid) may decide, so California or Netherlands or England all still on the table.And if the kid decides he wants to go to California, the whole family will move there. That is a big difference with normal families ofcourse.But the kid seems fine, his professor (also in the interview) said they had to brake him now and then since he would go on and on and considers studying more a hobby than work, he just loves to learn and bring it in practice.We'll see how this develops but for now he looks like a happy kid to me and I guess all the comments in this topic are biased and projections from own experiences, every individual is unique.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 11:26:24 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 25, 2019, 08:33:14 amNone of us have any idea, including you.If you want biased, TV edited interviews arenotoriouslyso, and very often have an agenda for the story.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 11:28:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2019, 11:26:24 amCorrect. That is why this topic can be closed

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 12:14:07 pm
content: What I wonder is... what's the IQ of Greta Thunberg?

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2019, 07:15:30 pm
content: Update: depending on your interpretation he's either dropped out or his parents had a sulk and withdrew him because the university said he still had too many exams to sit before his 10th birthday and the parents really wanted him to be the first under 10 to graduate.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50734000

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2019, 07:22:23 pm
content: No matter if it was his decision or parent's, this kind of illustrates the problem with things like this. He was going for some sort of lateral record, not the actual knowledge. There are many legitimate reasons to drop out, but I can't really see any that would apply to a 10 year old boy. Excluding vanity, of course.Also, what is he going to do now? Find a new University in 2 weeks and finish the degree? Why abandon the progress you've made simply because you will run over some arbitrary time frame?I guess with this story we've got the answer. This was a publicity stunt all along.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2019, 09:08:18 pm
content: I didn't notice this thread and mistakenly opened a subject on it sorry about that.I wonder how they assisting this young learner.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50734000QuoteThey allowing him extra time to finish mid next year.So that shows that the University is trying to help

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2019, 09:12:00 pm
content: Well, when you are a genius, passing exams is just above you, apparently. I'm not sure how this is University's fault though. Seems like he failed to pass the exams in time. Which is predictable, because as it was mentioned earlier, no matter how smart you are, there is a considerable amount of work that goes into the degree, and you can't accelerate a lot of that.I'm not clear why the university decided to participate in this. Stunts like this lower the value of the degree, IMO.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 12:28:11 am
content: The only thing they could have said or reworded, if he doesn't complete the exams in time this year we will give him until mid next year to finish it.It almost sounded to me like an arranged marriage where the parents were demanding graduation without realistically allowing enough time to finish up.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 01:05:28 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 10, 2019, 07:22:23 pmI think the title was clue enough.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 01:23:35 am
content: Poor kid, this is even much worst than publicity stunt, its purely child exploitation, Dutch authority or child protection agency should start an investigation.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 01:28:41 am
content: Apparently the parents want him to graduate at a certain age (trying to beat some sort of world record?) and the university is saying that he needs 6 more months to complete all the tests.The parents are withdrawing him so he can go to start a PhD program in the USPoor kid, let him have a childhood! In 15 years he will be on par or just a little above the average person, him alone will not change the world. Not worth the sacrifice.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 01:48:23 am
content: Quote from: Avacee on December 10, 2019, 07:15:30 pmQuote from his father:QuoteWTF, who's stopping him or telling him he shouldn't be proud of what he's done already?Insane.The parents have had a dummy spit and taken their bat and ball and gone home.Sure, itmighthave been the kid that spat the dummy over not being able to graduate before he was 10yo, but itstillfalls on the parents in that case for not going "hey, don't worry, another 6 months is no big deal"Good on the university for not pandering too much toward this, it makes a mockery of the degree, and acknowledging that doing the course in 10 months would not sufficiently develop "insight, creativity and critical analysis".

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 06:20:27 am
content: Yep the university had a special exception for him as there is no way you could do the amount of work needed to get an engineering degree in such a short time. Possibly for the university to get lots of press coverage and free advertising.Also just because you can quickly pass exams does not mean you are smart. For a lot of school this just means you are good at memorizing stuff, especially for the first 10 years of education. Passing a history of geography exam is purely just about remembering things you read in the textbook. If you have good memory then you can finish a semester worth of history in a few days. For things like math yes its a lot more difficult, but if your ability to remember and quickly recall something is fine grained enough then you can just memories all the common steps for solving math problems. Physics is just again memorization of formulas with a sprinkle of math tacked on the end to calculate things.The engineering highschool i went to tried implementing more relaxed attendance rules (Before this you needed written and signed parental permission to miss class since students are under 18). I used the new relaxed rules to miss class a lot, since it was more fun spending the useless class in a bar than wasting time sitting in class and not listening anyway. Yet not long after the rules ware revoked because of complaints from students (and there parrents) that never miss classes. The argument being they still get the same grades and everything despite them putting in effort to attend every single class.Being forced to sit in boring classes was a big problem for me because i have major attention span issues when i find something uninteresting. Learning it from the textbook 1 day before the exam, passing the exam with an okay bit not great grade and then forgetting 90% of what i learned in the next week was the way that worked for me. I have sort of 'selective memory' where i rapidly forget uninteresting things, so learning a boring subject over the course of a month in 1 or 2 hour spans of time did not work for me. I was perceived as pretty smart, but im not really, i was just optimizing for the least effort route trough this school thing.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 12:13:08 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on November 25, 2019, 03:45:56 amI disagree. Higher IQ usually leads to depression, certainly not happiness. Success, sure, maybe.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 12:52:21 pm
content: I doubt the data would support a “usually leads to” correlation between high IQ and depression.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 02:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: TK on December 11, 2019, 01:28:41 amYou know, that when I was in university, and wanted something done faster, or different, they told me "Tough shit, we dont have this course only every year, not every half year. Deal with it." I dont see a reason why they should make exceptions. One of the things you lear at university is to deal with life situations like this.And to learn how to drink like a proper man.And to see how you deal with losing friends because they have a baby or they dont pass a test and cannot continue the university. Its not just about the subjects. Too bad, his parents have trouble understanding this, because probably it will lead him to a extremely dysfunctional life, with several psychological problems.IQ of 145 is not even that high. It is 3 sigma above average, meaning 0.15% of the population has that much. Or statistically, 65 people on this forum. Probably more, because of the correlation between hobby/occupation and general intelligence. So it is typical "do as I say otherwise I turn the media against you".

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 04:46:44 pm
content: He has leverage, you didn't. He'll go on to greener fields, you couldn't.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 05:28:41 pm
content: Which greener fields are you talking about. He does not have working experience and will not get it until certain age because of labour regulations, so noone will give him a job. He will be contained in the child princess role. And by the working age his abilities may change.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 05:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on December 11, 2019, 06:20:27 amHaving a good memory helps indeed. Far less need for reasoning why but at some point memory alone doesn't work.QuoteThat reminds me of a semester of PSpice. We would get a test where you where allowed to use the manual and about 50% of the test was just plain electrical network analysis anyway. And then there where 2 extra points for a practicum. I decided to skip classes and the practicum. A couple of weeks after the test we had the same teacher and I was called to come forward. Ohoh... maybe I failed due to skipping the practicumNothing like that though. He told me I had the highest grade of all students and because of that I got the practicum points for free. I never felt so much hate and envy as on that moment...Back to Laurent:Quote from: TK on December 11, 2019, 01:28:41 amI get the same feeling. In a Dutch interview the parents claim a culture clash between Belgium and the Netherlands. I find this hard to believe because Eindhoven is 15km from the Belgian border. Now they want to send him to a university in the US. Talking about a culture clash...QuoteWell, if Laurent is clever he piles a few more studies on top to become an expert in several fields. Someone who is an expert in several fields can be extremely valuable for developing new technologies (and will confuse the hell out of any HR droid).

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 05:58:49 pm
content: He can only become an "expert" in academic sense.He better learn to play a violin, then at least he can perform and earn experience, though i do not know if and how kids performers are paid.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2019, 07:44:41 pm
content: They know what he's doing next. It was alluded to months ago. Which is why the schedule agreement with the university was important.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2023, 05:57:52 am
content: Update:https://www.psychnewsdaily.com/child-prodigy-laurent-simons-degree-age-11/https://www.brusselstimes.com/316161/belgian-child-prodigy-starts-doctorate-at-prestigious-german-institute