I'm on a new Electricity Plan - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 03:31:16 am
content: I've now switched from AGL to OVO Energy.They offer a free 3 hour window every day from 11am to 2pm, so I'll be setting my battery to charge at the full 5kW during that time, and also the EV if needed. Plus the heat pump hot water and the pool pump.This means a guaranteed 15kWh into the battery which should last us the entire night regardless of weather or season.Nighttime rate from midnight to 6am is only 8c/kWh if needed.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 03:56:58 am
content: So that leaves you with 10kWh to top up from solar?A pity the free hours are fixed and so early in the day, during the solar peak period (which I guess is exactly why they are at that time, given Aussie's growing solar export problem).I only get 1 hour free, but it's moveable to any time I want (outside 7-9AM and 5-9PM), so once my 3kWh battery unit arrives in a week or so I can make the free time 4-5 PM to top it off for anything solar didn't manage, before the 5-9 61c peak time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 08:07:18 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on May 28, 2025, 03:56:58 amI'm only going down to 15% (3.75kWh) for longevity reasons, so only 6.25kWh to top up from solar.QuoteYes, power often goes negative in wholesale pricing during this time, so they are effectively paying people to take it. That's why OVO can offer it free and pocket the difference.QuoteNice. There are two other companies I think that offer a free period but it's only on weekend and it's 2 hours.I was just told that the battery rebate will be $350/kWh battery installed. This makes expanding my AERL battery about $400 for a 5kWh packThat makes it a no-brainer to expand my system. I'll be getting an install quote come July.I've told there will be a lot of official paperwork for this, so I can't DIY.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 08:16:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 28, 2025, 08:07:18 amAre there no companies which expose the wholesale pricing directly to customers (with some margin price added)? Here that type of contract is very popular, and it's fairly easy to offer for energy companies since it's a low-risk item for them (on the other hand, not much opportunity for large earnings either, so they have other types of contracts, too; something for everyone).Here a lot of comparisons have been made and it turns out exposing the wholesale pricing ends up almost always the cheapest option for customer - even if they do nothing to schedule their consumption -, as long as they can keep their head cool and not panic during high peak prices. It averages out to minimum possible because on all other types of contracts, energy retailers want to push their risk to end customers.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 08:30:35 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on May 28, 2025, 08:16:27 amThere is one called Amber, but they ironically do not support my Australian AERL battery.https://www.amber.com.au/You can import during cheap/free periods and sell back during peak periods.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 08:32:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 28, 2025, 08:07:18 amIt's incredible that companies can do this now.The transformation because of renewables are really amazing. Think of the possibilities. You already said, heating up the warm water, battery storage.Discussing in more practical terms, I'm not sure if lengthening the lifetime of the battery is the right choice. I understand the mental reasoning behind it: "I just spent thousands on this battery, I want it to last as long as possible." But battery prices follow the same trend as transistor or solar panel prices, it's cheaper every year.I'm not sure if increasing the lifetime is the right way. Your LFP might last 8 years with heavy use and 10 years with smaller DoD? And replacing the battery 8 years from now might be 1/4th of the cost as now.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 08:59:31 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 28, 2025, 08:32:41 amI don't know.The better lead/acid (AGM and gel) don't cost much less than LFP now, but can do a significantly lower number of cycles (5-7 years). They are also about 6x heavier than LFP.Good old flooded lead/acid are 1/3 the price but will only do 2-3 years of daily cycling.If you can save 30c/kWh by charging at night rates and then using it during the day, and your battery costs 10c/kWh to achieve this then it's worth doing today, saving a net 20c/kWh.If in 8 years you can buy batteries costing 2.5c/kWh then (if electricity hasn't increased in price by then) you'll save 27.5c/kWh instead of 20c -- which is 37% better. But in the meantime you weren't saving anything at all. And if you got FLA batteries now and had to replace them 2 or 3 times before 8 years .. ugh.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 09:36:19 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on May 28, 2025, 08:59:31 amLead acid isn't cheaper anymore, it hasn't been cheaper for about a year now.The big ones are also usually not maintenance free. For this reason nobody really considers lead acid anymore.Sodium batteries are expected to be half the cost of current LFP in the near future, after they ramped up production.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 10:22:49 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 28, 2025, 09:36:19 amI know.Which is why I was surprised that you appeared to be suggesting buying cheaper but shorter lifetime batteries rather than LFP, which seem (to me) to be clearly the winner at the moment.Unless you were suggesting buying cheap LFP with 3500 cycles to 80% (~10 years) rather than expensive LFP (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) with twice as many cycles to 80%. Which I agree with and is exactly what I'm doing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 10:27:46 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 28, 2025, 08:32:41 amThe designer of the battery himself advised me to do it.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 10:40:08 am
content: Dave, do a video "finally cracked the free energy problem".

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 11:22:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 28, 2025, 10:27:46 amThen following the advice is a good idea.Quote from: brucehoult on May 28, 2025, 10:22:49 amI wasn't suggesting cheaper batteries now. I said the same LFP batteries 8 years from now will be cheaper. Or Natrium batteries, expected to cost half of the current cost.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 11:27:34 am
content: QuoteWhats the betting the price goes up by $349/kwh just as the rebate kicks in.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 12:30:24 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on May 28, 2025, 11:27:34 amhttps://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/may/26/energy-prices-increase-australia

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 12:40:59 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 28, 2025, 11:22:33 amThen I really don't understand what you meant by "I'm not sure if lengthening the lifetime of the battery is the right choice."Oh! Was that a response to Dave's "I'm only going down to 15% (3.75kWh) for longevity reasons"? I'm afraid that wasn't at all clear with a single reply to multiple bits of quoted text.It does seem pretty clear from the figures I've seen that regular discharge to 0% is a very bad idea (as is charging to 100%, to a lesser extent), as in halving the number of cycles compared to stopping at 20% SoC. But I don't know how Dave's 15%, or 10%, or 5% compare.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 01:20:09 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on May 28, 2025, 12:40:59 pmPeter from AERL said 100% is fine, so I do 15% to 100%Goofed up my Deye setting overnight, headed home now to fix them, should be able to start sucking energy like crazy from today.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 04:31:04 am
content: Using the new 3 hours window like a BOSS

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 05:39:32 am
content: Install a community charging station on your mailbox.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 11:36:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2025, 04:31:04 amNice that's going to save quite some money in the long run. Maybe I should move to Australia, even outside the cheap 3 hours window your electricity plan looks great. We currently pay ~0.40 € ~ 0.70 AUD/kWh. The only flexible plan available from our supplier is using the current electricity exchange prices, which is not really predictable and can seriously backfire.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 02:46:29 am
content: Quote from: Traceless on May 31, 2025, 11:36:37 amThe old plan was a cheaper daily rate and tariff.But if we have to run say the pool heater or EV overnight which we have had to do conditionally, the midnight to 6am rate on the new plan is very cheap. The old plan was fixed rate.