Quick and dirty test of cheap ebay solders. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Neug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 01:35:03 pm
content: Hey guys,Just recently got back into DIY Electronics. Bought myself what I needed to start and got a bit carried away with cheap solder offerings on ebay. Basically I tested them by taking the temperature at which they form a nice hanging blob (fully liquid phase) on the tip of the iron and compared them to this table which I made from wikipedia data and tin-lead phase diagrams.Alloy Melting Range C Melting Range F Pasty Range C Pasty Range F Sn % Pb %Pb80Sn20 183-280 361.4-536 97 174.6 20 80Pb75Sn25 183-266 361.4-510.8 83 149.4 25 75Pb70Sn30 183-255 361.4-491 72 129.6 30 70Pb65Sn35 183-250 361.4-482 67 120.6 35 65Pb60Sn40 183-242 361.4-467.6 59 106.2 40 60Pb55Sn45 183-227 361.4-440.6 44 79.2 45 55Sn50Pb50 183-216 361.4-420.8 33 59.4 50 50Sn55Pb45 183-203 361.4-397.4 20 36 55 45Sn60Pb40 183-190 361.4-374 7 12.6 60 40Sn63Pb37 183-183 361.4-361.4 0 0 63 37So far the three 63/37 solder ebay offerings I bought for a buck or so for 30 grams(1 oz) are actually.-Pb55Sn45 (fully melted at about 230C) (Kaina Brand)-Pb65Sn35 (fully melted at about 250C) (Va Xun Brand)-Pb70Sn30 (fully melted at about 260C) (Youzhihanxisi Brand)One more is in the mail. Will I strike gold?CheersNeugEdit: Included brand names.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 04:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: Neug on January 17, 2014, 01:35:03 pmInteresting Neug. What do you use for temperature measurement? The display of your iron?

author: Neug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 11:39:45 pm
content: Hey Rick.Yeah I use the temperature display on the power unit, the iron is a Weller WESD51. I've checked it with a thermometer on my multimeter and it seems pretty accurate, to within two degree C or so.I have some kester 63/37 which wont melt at 182 C as displayed on the power unit but as soon as I up the temp to 183 C it starts to melt. I think the temperature reading on the power unit is actually better than on the multimeter.The most inaccurate part is determining when the solder is fully liquid, that's the quick and dirty part.Neug

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 12:12:42 am
content: I think it would be more interesting to see how well the flux proportion is maintained throughout the solder wire. The solder may advertise 2-3% flux but there may be only 1% or you may not have any flux at all. I've had solders that had no flux in some places throughout the solder wire.But I don't know how you would measure that. Maybe with some quality microscope and inspection of several sections through the wire?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 04:02:50 am
content: Quote from: mariush on January 18, 2014, 12:12:42 amCut a piece, weigh it, melt, weigh again, compute diff and %. ?

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 04:10:49 am
content: if you where going to melt it you would of course need to melt it on an item like a penny, then you could rinse off any excess flux. And of course you would need to weigh the penny as well.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 04:35:33 am
content: Melting it won't tell you anything about the consistency of the flux.Don't know how to explain it... let's say you have two meters of solder wire. They weight the same. You melt them separately and they both weight the same melted. But one meter may have a nicely spread out flux, 2% throughout the wire, the other may be 3% with areas without any flux, or with areas that are only 1%.Multicore brand even has all that marketing about 5 cores/strands of flux through the solder wire, so that it flux works better on the metal before the heat destroys it.Oh well, at least this gave me an excuse to try the macro mode of my old camera and also how it shoots through magnifying glass .. this is a cheap 1 mm lead free solder, you can see the flux isn't actually right in the center of the solder, it's a bit offset.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 05:17:58 am
content: Out of curiosity, why go through this experiment?Curiosity to see if the inexpensive brands offer a better value than the name brands (i.e. similar, if not equal quality at lower cost), or is it that the name branded products are quite expensive where you're located?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 06:11:43 am
content: Quote from: mariush on January 18, 2014, 04:35:33 amGood point. I re-experienced that (solder-flux mixing) just the last couple of days.I have been using multi-core (5 core) and it works very well. I got an include roll of solder as part of another purchase. It turned out to be no-core no-flux bare solder wire. Last few days, I was trying it out. I dipped it in flux and it still doesn't work anywhere as nice as my 5-core solder.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2014, 05:35:42 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on January 18, 2014, 06:11:43 amWhat did you use for flux, and how much of it was there vs. the Multicore?Might just be it's not as good of a flux, not as much, or a combination of both for the conditions you were soldering (i.e. heavier oxidation). So it may have just come down to it not being an equal test. This said, I definitely prefer cored solder wire, and as NRA members would say about their firearms, "You'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead hand".I do keep liquid flux around though, as I find it useful for tinning wire and drag soldering. For heavy oxidation, pre-cleaning the pads + leads, and/or using a more active flux can make a huge difference (i.e. RA or RMA if you're wire uses R in it).

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 07:35:50 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 20, 2014, 05:35:42 pmI just jab the solder-wire into the flux "paste" and started soldering. I expected that the flux that stuck to the outside of the solder-wire would work like as if it came from the center core. It does work a bit but the solder turns "pastie" and looks griddy very quickly util I start brushing massive amount onto it. (Massive meaning flux is 1X to 2X solder amount by volume).The flux is a cream/paste kind but I have no idea what kind of flux it is chemically. Purchased sometime ago (between 386 to early 486 era) from Radio Shack or another electronic store. It was likely mid-price range stuff and unlikely to be "Chinese imitation brands" because that was before internet and before China exports much if any to the USA.My 5-core solder is older still. That was purchased in the 1970's. I got a big (1lb, I think) rolls to build a PC kit (SOL20). But, while old, soldering with that 5-core (1mm) roll is night-and-day different from soldering from that no-core (0.8mm) jabbed into the "god knows what" paste. Even when I apply the funny-paste generously, the 5-core still works a lot better.Even while I don't like the solder, I am rather happy with the Soldering Iron purchase I made. This 40gm roll of no-core solder came "free" with the iron.

author: Neug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 12:37:40 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 18, 2014, 05:17:58 amHi Nanofrog,The general idea is to see if you can get some decent solder for about half store brand or name brand price. So far i've been able to get refunds after I explain to the seller that the item is not as described. Some seem only too happy to refund without having me send it back, thou they do ask for positive feedback. In which case I give feedback saying i'm pleased with the refund but the item was not as described.Should have some more solder to test in a couple weeks. So far I've limited myself to a maxiumum of about $1AUD per 30 grams, there aren't to many 63/37 options on ebay at that price. I've only bought items that declare weight. I'll move on to those that declare length, then maybe on to 60/40 options. For comparison 60/40 solder from the local jaycar is about $2AUD per 30 grams (200g rolls). Kester 63/37 is about $2AUD per 30g in 1lb rolls excluding delivery.Anyone know a good place to get Kester or Multicore in Australia? I got Kester from X-ON.com.au at the same time I ordered components for a few small projects to get me back into the hobby.Neug

author: Neug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 01:17:18 pm
content: Well I checked the offerings sold by length in 63/37 and only one is about $1AUD per 30 grams. It looks like 50/50 solder, 95 grams (13 meters 1mm diameter). Specific gravity of 50/50 is about 9,310,000 g per m^3. Will see how it goes then check the cheap 60/40 stuff.Neug

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2014, 04:06:14 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on January 21, 2014, 07:35:50 amPerhaps the flux has become ineffective, but I doubt this as well, as Radio Shack sourced from good suppliers back then. I've some old Radio Shack 60/40 left, that still works well (mid to late '80's).At this point, I'm thinking its the solder itself as well (initially assumed the solder was a proper alloy for electrical work, and fresh <not heavily oxidized>). You could try cleaning the solder prior to using it to see if that improves matters, but probably not worth the hassle. Besides, solder really isn't that expensive anyway (per unit length or time <years>). Name brand is worth it IMHO to avoid this sort of aggravation.BTW, any idea of who made it to help others avoid buying garbage?Seems like another brand to avoid.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2014, 05:44:47 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 22, 2014, 04:06:14 am(EDITed wording)It was "free solder" I got with another purchase, so I am not sure if it is available separately.The brand is:YH-Solder Wire"The Finest Quality Solder" (on the label)Diam 0.45 ~ 1mm (another label on the back side say 0.8mm)64Sn/37Pb 1.2%The roll should be a 40gram roll.The 1.2% implies 1.2% flux, but I see no evidence of it - no smoking out as it is heated as I expect a flux core would smoke as the flux burn off. I look at it with a jeweler's loupe (10x) and I don't see evidence of a core either.Very pastie and griddy without flux. With flux, it works a little better but not much. Once all the flux burned off, the solder turns into a griddy paste. It does hold a solder joint mechanically (at least in so far as I can tell). I am using it to assist me in de-soldering only. The pastie-ness actually helps desoldering. After removing the part(s), I can scrap/sweep the solder away with the hot iron rather cleanly.Photo attached.

author: Neug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 12:51:30 am
content: So far it seems the solder with the highest tin content for around $1 per 30 grams on ebay is actually 50/50 solder. Its $1.10 per 30 grams. Adjusting the tin/lead proportion to actual 63/37 would result in a price of $1.40 per 30 grams all other things being equal. Thats a 30% saving compared to name brand prices (around $2 per 30g). Not a great savings.Neug

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2014, 07:41:13 pm
content: Any more findings on what eBay solder is good or bad?