Earth's magnetic pole moving as much as 34 miles a year, disrupting navigation?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 05:40:28 am
content: I just read about this and its kind of interesting. As I gather it means that the magma inside the earth is also moving more than usual.Here is a better description (and name):Geomagnetic excursionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_excursionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_excursion--------------------------What I find particularly funny is that this is exactly what that strange white wearing and mirror carrying EMF-phobic PanaWave group from Japan were predicting was coming, around 20 yrs ago.----------------------------Earth’s Fast-Moving Magnetic North Pole Disrupts Navigation SystemFebruary 5, 2019https://fossbytes.com/earths-fast-moving-magnetic-north-pole-disrupts-navigation-system/Earth’s magnetic North pole has always been on the move, but this movement is now having a significant impact on navigation technology as it is drifting from the Canadian Arctic towards Siberia — at a very fast speed.The speed at which magnetic North moves has increased from 9 miles per year to 34 miles per year, leaving researchers in a tussle to track the changes.Whenever there is turbulence in our planet’s outer liquid core, the magnetic poles shift in ways that are “unpredictable.” There is nothing that humanity can do apart from trying to keep upEdit: Here is another one:https://phys.org/news/2010-09-evidence-fast-north-south-pole-flip.html

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 05:48:21 am
content: Pilots (and probably mariners) have to replace their charts every year. Changes in the magnetic declination is one of the reasons.Compass navigation gets more problematic the closer you get to the magnetic poles. They start to point down more than across.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 09:23:04 am
content: I notice a lot of online hype and panic about drifting magnetic poles, pole flips etc. But so what? Geological surveys of magnetism locked in the ocean spreading rift faults shows the Earth's magnetic poles flip regularly, quite often. No big deal.And the irony about the 'drifting pole's stuff now is, that the Nth magnetic pole is actually the closest it's been to Earth's rotational pole for a long while. The Sth magnetic pole... not so much.Visualization here:https://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/historical_declination/Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be possible to record settings in the URL. So you have to fiddle with it a bit to get a nice image like this:

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 09:51:32 am
content: Your title is wrong. 35 miles/yr. Not /day.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 10:36:47 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 06, 2019, 09:23:04 amThe last time was 780,000 years ago. This was us:Not exactly Christopher Columbus

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 11:27:08 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 06, 2019, 10:36:47 amI had the same thought when reading this article though. I wonder when they will flip. It's unlikely to be in our lifetime, but does anyone know what causes it, and how to predict it?

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 03:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: Ampera on February 06, 2019, 11:27:08 amImpurities or irregular density in the earth's molten core likely causes the core to shift its position along one axis, which changes the magnetic pole to shift over time. It is unlikely it just spontaneously happens overnight one evening.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precessionis also an interesting topic.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 06:46:32 pm
content: One has to wonder how much seismic activity goes with the magnetic movement or flip. Also volcanic activity will new volcanoes appear and old ones stop.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 08:09:18 pm
content: Is the current rate of movement consistent with historical movements, I wonder?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 08:14:59 pm
content: Since we depend on the magnetosphere to keep a lot of radiation off of the surface of the earth, I wonder if during the interregnum the Earth is subjected to more, and if so, what kinds? Seems like something so ephemeral that it would be hard to completely know what would happen.Obviously if its shifted in the past, life still survived. But the lack of a magnetosphere might play havoc with electronics, perhaps? Seems like an interesting question.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 09:01:55 pm
content: Also what effect on migrating birds will a large shift have.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 09:18:10 pm
content: I don't get it. The magnitude of these changes affect only those few that work and navigate very closely to the poles and for some reason use only compass and don't have a GPS device. For the rest of the world it's just another Thursday.As for animals, the fact that we still have migratory species, despite numerous pole shifts in the past suggests that animals will adapt. I would imagine that, while on geological scales this is a sudden change, it is not so sudden on timescales of living organisms and that even if the poles flip over a period as short as a few generations it's still slow enough that animals can just take that into account and pass the knowledge of whatever migratory paths they take to their offspring.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 09:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on February 06, 2019, 08:09:18 pmLooks like there's a bit of periodicity happening. I suppose that on longer timescales the shifts should slow down as the Earth cools.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 10:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on February 06, 2019, 08:14:59 pmWhat is more interesting, I think, is how it affects the evolution of life. Mutation rates should increase right? Are there speciation events associated with these geomagnetic minima.This paper says "no":https://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:35087861Maybe solar activity has more influence on the radiation we receive than MF.

author: larrybl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 10:35:21 pm
content: There is a site that tracks all forms of information from the Sun, Quakes, etc, and is following the polar shift.https://suspicious0bservers.org/

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 12:16:22 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 06, 2019, 05:48:21 amPolar region aircraft navigation required using celestial methods from the beginning. Historically, in lower latitudes the deviation was not so rapid that a new map was needed annually.I'm a geophysicist, so I'm fascinated at the speed of the shift.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 12:26:06 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 06, 2019, 09:23:04 amNote quite, theLaschamp eventhappened only around 41000 years ago.Anotherlink.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 02:45:53 am
content: Quote from: Ampera on February 06, 2019, 11:27:08 amDoes it really just "flip"? and over what time scale?Or does it just continue to drift slowly over 10's of thousands of years?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 02:58:06 am
content: A friend's father discovered the flips during WW II. Bu the plain facts are, we will never know what happens. We won't live that long.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 07:13:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 07, 2019, 02:45:53 amThe picture from the 2nd link I posted is quite detailed:So yes, the pole actually flipped. The reversal back and forth needed around 250 years each and it stayed reversed for about 440years. Other reversal might have lasted much longer but this one was very quick from a geological point of view.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 11:24:15 pm
content: There’s no need to panic, but an Associated Press article in this morning’s Chicago Tribune said that the pole was now moving at 34 miles per hour (as opposed to per year).

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 12:03:13 am
content: Likely the reporter's shoe size is larger than their IQ. At 34 miles per hour it would take 30 days to flip. While this is outside my professional experience, I don't recall reading anything to suggest that reversals were so swift. And there is a lot of data on transition duration times.As a geoscientist, I am *very* frustrated by the propensity of MSM and Nova to paint ordinary geological phenomena as an "impending catastrophe". I stopped watching Nova after watching shows about magnetic reversals, caldera collapses and the "Great Spokane flood". I knew the science they presented was wrong. But only because I already knew the subject fairly well. So I quit watching it for the same reason I don't read historical fiction. It tends to cause one to get the facts confused.Yes, we could have a major caldera collapse event at any number of locations around the world. It might extinguish civilization, but not the human race. But the probability of other factors destroying civilization is *much* higher.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 12:53:30 am
content: Do any lurking Flat Earthers have a take on this?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 01:07:43 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on February 07, 2019, 11:24:15 pmThats likely a mistake!(vigorously gesticulating in the air)But if it isn't, all this seems to indicate that the magma may be more fluid than at least I had thought.I wonder if the Moon was formed when some other, planet sized object slammed into the Earth and the moon is basically like a drop of water that was shed off of another drop of water in microgravity. The fact that the same side always faces the Earth seems to argue for that theory pretty well, IMHO.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 01:11:51 am
content: Have you been to many of the calderas scattered around the West? I think Ive only been to three of them but maybe Ive been to more and just don't remember it right now.. Yellowstone, the one near Los Alamos, and the Long Valley Caldera in California.Yellowstone is really spectacular. The other two are large too but Yellowstone is huge.Quote from: rhb on February 08, 2019, 12:03:13 am

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 01:33:35 am
content: As far as I'm aware, Earths magnetic field is as dynamic as any other natural process. Granted on such a large scale radical changes probably aren't going to happen quickly, but I also don't see why anyone would expect things to remain perfectly static. Even the South Atlantic Anomaly grows and shrinks over the course of a year:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Atlantic_AnomalyAlthough doomsayers will latch onto *anything* to try and get attention, I think the reason "poles flipping" can have disastrous effects isn't because the poles flip, but because in the slow process of doing so, parts of the field can become extremely weak, providing less protection from solar winds. It would take a pretty powerful solar event, along with extremely bad luck, for us to hit by a coronal mass ejection, whilst also having a very weak magnetic field.https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/earth-magnetic-field-flip-north-south-poles-science/

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:30:04 am
content: This looks interesting - "The Geomagnetic Field During a Reversal"https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040021339.pdf