Mailbag Items vs the Big NDA - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2019, 12:19:05 pm
content: Hello,My first time posting. Ive been a long time fan of the EEVBlog and I’ve been wrestling with the idea of sending in one of my PCB designs from my company for Dave to review. What is unique about “my companies” PCA’s is that we use a special conformal coat called Parylene.Parylene is 100% hydrophobic and i thought it would make for an excellent video. My concern is if i were to send in board design which has become obsolete within “my company” would this be considered to be breaking an NDA? I suppose logically it is but i dont see how this could cause any real harm.What is so fascinating about parylene is that you can power up a board and completely submerged it in water and it will still function, provided the source terminals do not become shorted. There are Cons to using Parylene, since the coating is vacuum sealed it is very difficult to rework boards.I just thought it would be an interesting video to dive into.Does anyone have any thoughts if this would be a mistake for me to send in?Best Regards,JVSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2019, 07:01:56 pm
content: Why not talk to your boss, or whoever is in charge? How would people here know if this will break your NDA?And also, what does the subject has to do with the topic?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:28:19 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 25, 2019, 07:01:56 pmExactly this ^ ^ ^QuoteAgreed. The type of company involved isn't particularly relevant to the question at hand.Since the thread subject line is the key feature presented in a list of topics, please try to make it somewhat more informative so that people will have an idea of what the thread is really about. Otherwise, people who might be interested and have something useful to contribute could just pass it by. Similarly, those who were attracted by the subject will get annoyed when they go into the thread and they might start avoiding your threads entirely.Edit: Also, even if a PCB is considered "obsolete" the design could still be copyright and sharing it might still be a problem. But, once again, you need to talk to someone at your company. We simply cannot offer you any other advice on this subject.

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:32:23 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on June 26, 2019, 01:28:19 amSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:33:39 am
content: My apologies, i totally agree and not really sure why i put that as the topic i guess i expected to go into my company....Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:37:55 am
content: You can edit it.If you go to thefirstpost (the one that created the thread) and click on "Modify", you will be able to edit your post - including the subject line. It is this subject line of the first post of a thread that is used in the list of threads. All subsequent subject lines of replies won'tnecessarilychange, but it's only the first one that matters for the list level.

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:38:32 am
content: Did it update? i thought i edited it?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:39:37 am
content: Yes.You must have done it while I was typing my post.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 01:55:55 am
content: Or just send it anonymously? Couldn't anyone who ever bought a product containing one of those PCBs have sent one in to Dave? Or would it be obvious it came from you?

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:05:13 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 26, 2019, 01:55:55 amI would be obvious if anyone had seen a board from my company. I am an EE at a leading fuel cell manufacturer.Not many people have ever heard of Parylene. I think it would have been something very unique for Dave to test and show. Typically Parylene is only used by Nasa or in Military applications however we had so many issues with condensation and we found it to be a better solution vs using IP rated enclosures.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:09:44 am
content: Could you send him a small bottle of that stuff to apply to his own board? That would likely be cheaper to send on top of bypassing the NDA issue and the end result would be just as effective, unless applying it requires a special process.

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:18:57 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 26, 2019, 02:09:44 amNo its not your typical conformal coating, once the board house has completed populating the assemblies, the boards are coated and placed in a vacuum chamber. you might be able to fond some examples online. The parylene coating is 100% hydrophobic. When we first switched over to it i literally performed tests where i would just pour bottles of water onto our DC converters while converter would be supplying the auxiliary power to the fuel cell devices.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:22:10 am
content: Im going speak with my manager tomorrow see if i can send in one of the small SSR’s i designed. (simple High Side Pmos Relay).Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:36:35 am
content: Try doing an "Advanced Search" for parylene on this forum: you are not the first to mention it here.It is in the family of chemical vapor deposition (CVD), which is used for several other fields in electronics, including conductive glass and specialty dielectrics. This is a broad and interesting topic.

author: viggstable
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:38:29 am
content: I know , its why i wanted to try and get a board with parylene coating into daves hands ... it is truly unique when it comes to its usesSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:40:25 am
content: I honestly don't know what your concern is. Are you considering giving Dave access to anything that any thing that isn't available to any of your company's other customers? Even if Dave did discover something and did disclose it, I don't think that you'd be any more liable than your company's shipping department would be if one of your company's other customers were to disclose something. Have you even signed a formal NDA with your company? I don't care what your company's POLICY is, have you signed an NDA? If so, exactly what does it say?So far, all you're talked about is the conformal coating. Is this a commercial product or something that your company developed and ONLY they use?I think that you're over thinking this, unless you intend to send Dave your company's complete Technical Data Package for this product. Sending Dave a sample of one of your company's products shouldn't be any different than if you or anyone in your company sent a sample to a potential customer or your or your company sold one.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 03:00:12 am
content: The Op is clearly being cautious. He is thinking (perhaps over-thinking) about the possible issues - which is commendable in my view.The choice of the board to demonstrate the topic he has raised is irrelevant, but he should make sure he doesn't tread on anyone's toes at work. Even if there is no issue with IP, NDA's, etc. annoying the powers that be isn't a wise move. Also, if you send Dave something that doesn't technically belong to you, then it might be classified as theft.Quote from: viggstable on June 26, 2019, 02:22:10 amThis is probably a good choice - especially if it is a populated and functional board. A simple function board is something Dave could possibly lash up quickly and do a practical demo ... maybe. A more complex board could be harder to demo. (I daresay you aren't talking about a bare board - because that wouldn't have the conformal coating applied.)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 05:52:12 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on June 26, 2019, 01:37:55 amThe URL won't change either.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 10:39:40 pm
content: Quote from: viggstable on June 26, 2019, 02:05:13 amSome of the "volt nuts" that regularly post in the metrology section have talked about parylene but I agree it is not well known.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 09:07:40 am
content: 1). Design a blinky led circuit with a 555.2). Take a jam jar and poke a hole through it's lid.3). Seal the wires to your blinky led in the lid.4). Fill the jar with water and and send it to Dave.