1950s book copyright - can I scan this and upload it? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 12:07:46 pm
content: Hi guys,I've bought a great book - Philip Parker - Electronics. 1950s, it seems a great resource for anyone interested in all sorts of valves, it deals with a lot of math, tables (emission coeffs, graphs) and such - I'm pretty sure you could design your own tube with it - thermionic or other. It goes into great detail on a lot of subject I didn't see anywhere else, or certainly not in a compact form.As such it is a great resource for anyone in that particular area - tubes, their design, designs with them and such.As it is 60+ years from the original date of issue, I was wondering, how OK would it be to scan this and upload it to some public site - I can't find anywhere to buy the book - I myself bought it in an antiques store by pure luck.I've found some texts on book copyright in the US. This was published in the UK, London in the 1950s. There's no ISBN number to be found.Is there a place where I can find a definitive yes or no answer to wheter I can scan and upload this? The details are:Author: Philip Parker, M.Sc., A.Inst.P., A.M.I.E.E., Senior Lecturer in Physics, Northhampton Polytechnic, LondonBook nam: ElectronicsFirst published 1950 by Edward Arnold & Co.Thanks,David

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 12:12:04 pm
content: In the USA no, thanks to the copyright act amended so Steamboat Willie never becomes a public domain item, but it might be possible in other countries to have it scanned.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 12:25:15 pm
content: Scan it and put it up on a bit torrent site. It's extremely unlikely you'll be sued and if you're worried access said site from a private network.Here in the UK some sites are blocked by most ISPs but it can be circumvented by a proxy server.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 12:35:43 pm
content: Legally speaking, no.Realistically, go for it. The publishers are logically going to spend far more effort to take down pirated books that they'restill sellingthan an out-of-print book that they might not even have a copy of anymore.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 01:16:58 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on May 25, 2014, 12:07:46 pmThe sad answer, which you probably don't want to hear, is that place would be the office of an expensive lawyer specialized in copyright (with the lawyer being present, talking to you and taking your money). Copyright laws still differ from country to country, so you can't extrapolate from how things are handled in one country. And even within a country, depending on the material and things like age, items can fall under different regulations. Some countries also have exception rules for abandoned work, requiring extra research.By the way, I wouldn't listen to ethically challenged people who recommend you should do a potential copyright violation because chances to get caught are slim. Wrong or right isn't a function of the probability to get caught.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 01:19:14 pm
content: Just do it, and if someone complains, take it down.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 01:31:07 pm
content: QuoteSo is robbery.If we don't know what's right and what's wrong, we have become barbarians.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 01:51:18 pm
content: How is this wrong? The book is no longer in print for goodness sake so no one is loosing anything.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 02:01:31 pm
content: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=7zeBAAAAMAAJ&Doesnt look to be public domain yet.edit: looks to be reissued 1960.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 02:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 01:31:07 pmWhen 85 individuals have pocketed more loot than half the world's population, we are not exactly civilised. It is obscene.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pm
content: QuoteCopying a book without copyright is stealing.What would you react if some squatters moved into your vacation home because 99.9% of the time, you are not using it?QuoteUnfortunately, as long as you don't own the copyright, you have no say in that.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 02:46:33 pm
content: The Berne Convention states that all works except photographic and cinematographic shall be copyrighted for at least 50 years after the author's death, but parties are free to provide longer terms, as the European Union did with the 1993 Directive on harmonising the term of copyright protection.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_convention#Copyright_term

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 02:47:38 pm
content: QuoteTo someone living in Africa, you are every bit as rich as the 85 individuals.Does that give them the right to loot your house?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 02:55:23 pm
content: It may be illegal but please let's not confuse illegal with immoral.Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmNo it isn't stealing. The author doesn't lose anything as they're no longer selling it and you've made a a very silly analogy there: you can't compare people invading your space with someone who's never made contact with you and is merely duplicating some information you've released and is already available from numerous public libraries and putting it on some bit torrent site.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 03:17:30 pm
content: QuoteHow do you know that the author (rights owner) doesn't lose anything? Would it be that difficult to envision a scenario where if sufficient demand is there they may reprint it?If copying is OK as long as the author isn't selling the book, we would have no print of any book after the 1st print goes on sale.QuoteThe two are identical: the property owners' rights are violated. As I cannot justify my using of your property (vacation home) on the basis of your not exercising your rights there, you cannot justify your using of my property (copyright) on the basis of my not exercising my rights there.It is that simple.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 03:23:12 pm
content: To scan and upload would be illegal, however so is doing 71mph on the motorway.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 03:52:32 pm
content: Two things:1) Is the owner of the book selling it and making a profit/royalties?2) Are you selling it to make a profit?If No,No, then go for it. Remember, there is no such thing as absolute law. There is only interpretation and enforcement which is almost always driven by profit motives.There is a lot to be gained by sharing this old and unique information with the public. Taking the time to scan this book and put it out there is a SERVICE and much appreciated.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 04:40:48 pm
content: Quote from: FrankenPC on May 25, 2014, 03:52:32 pmWell said. Since the book is long out of print and your intent is educational (not profit), IMO it meets the spirit (if not the letter) of theFair Use Statute.Quote

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 05:22:57 pm
content: Wow... such a discussion. Thanks for the info and opinions!The facts: I'm assuming the author has no intent of republishing the book in any form (it does not even mention transistors, which is a pretty popular part these days, so it might be slightly out of date) and the book cannot be bought by any normal means - I've searched on amazon and such to no avail. The only way to obtain it is to have a bit of luck at your local antique shop, or ebay. The original publisher has since been bought, split and reorganized. I do not want any royalties nor payment for the book.I'd gladly contact the author, but as he was a senior lecturer in physics in the 1950s, I assume (though hope not) that the only way to contact him involves black candles and an Ouija board. Google doesn't give anything in terms of contact nor anything similar.I've taken a look at the google site (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=7zeBAAAAMAAJ)... the book seems to be scanned already, but not accessible, only bits and pieces... damn. I don't see a buy/download link.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 05:36:56 pm
content: QuoteNow sure what basis you have for that.QuoteHis estate could have lived on.QuoteQuoteThose are Google's ways of minimizing its liabilities in the book scanning lawsuit - aka "fair use", which I think is a funny argument. The lawsuit isn't over yet so we don't really know the real outcome.You just need to remember that end of the day, you are the only person responsible, should there be consequences for your action. Not a single of those individuals who advocated your copying the book will be dragged to the court with you. I think your chance of getting substantive support from them is minimum at best.So think about that before you push the scanning button.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 06:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 05:36:56 pmThere is absolutely zero chance of being dragged into courtWorst case scenario is being asked to take it down - which you could probably safely ignore (but would likely choose not to).Fair use is long established case law. This could be reasonably argued to apply (or not) but that would only be settled in a court. But no one would bother since you are not trying to profit and even if you were the response would still be a request to take it down.

author: kc0ngu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:10:18 am
content: This guy scans and uploads these type of books to his web pages regularly, you could send to him the book or scan and send the pdf.www.tubebooks.org

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:23:11 am
content: If you think about it, there's a ton of "illegal" videos on Youtube. I've watched entire movies that have been uploaded by individuals there. Using music in a youtube video that you didn't get permission from the publisher to use would also be considered illegal.I haven't really heard any stories yet of youtubers being arrested for videos yet. I wouldn't worry about it really, but giving the scan to another site to host at least removes some connection between it and you.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:17:27 am
content: Quote from: daqq on May 25, 2014, 12:07:46 pmIt certainly sounds like it. Thanks for the name & title, the better to search.QuoteWhat does your heart say? An ancient book on an obsolete technology, last republished in 1960, now out of print and zero chance of it ever being republished. Unless by some third party in print-on-demand form, with no royalties going to the author because he's dead. Even if it still is covered by the ever-extending rapacious farce that is copyright so-called 'law' these days.You're proposing to put in a lot of hard work, for the public benefit, with no personal financial gain. Where's the crime?What you are really asking, is "what are my chances of getting sued?" With the unstated, perhaps not even consciously admitted subtext "Given that the Law these days has gone insane, and copyright law is a prime example."The answer to that is, No, there's zero chance of being sued. You could even host it on a site you owned, and so long as you can show you are not making any money from it, 'Fair Use' protects you. The worst that could happen is someone may demand you take it down.QuoteMy advice: Don't waste time attempting to develop an understanding of the finer details of international copyright law. It's a scam, a con job, is designed to be complex and difficult to understand, and changes all the time. Almost invariably to the benefit of the large corporations who hold major copyright portfolios. Who incidentally, massively stole cultural heritage from the entire human race repeatedly, every time they managed to bribe legislatures to extended copyright durations backwards in reach, thus taking (theft) works that had become public domain and making them proprietary again.Your time would be more usefully spent reading in the public debates over the underlying morality of copyright law. Its history (what it was originally intended to achieve, and the original sensible duration and limitations) and how it was co-opted to become a tool of knowledge control and suppression, and profit to entities who in no way benefit the original writers.Incidentally, that you ask 'can I scan and publish this book?' rather than 'HOW do I scan and publish this book?' suggests you haven't tried to do this before. Is that right?You might be in for a bit of a learning curve there too. There are many technical pitfalls, that can result in a less than beautiful, accurate and usable result.But by all means, please do it. The thought to bear in mind is that for all you know, the digital copy you are making may be the ONLY copy to ever survive down through future history. Do it well. No lo-res blurry images, no tonally wrecked photo-illustrations, no moire patterning on offset screened illustrations, no 2-tone jaggies, no JPEG compression artifacts, no skewed pages, no illegible subscripts, no OCR miss-reads, and so on...Oh, and for God's sake, please don't use JBIG2 compression.Seehttp://everist.org/NobLog/20131122_an_actual_knob.htm#jbig2It sucks being poor. I've found a copy available for around $40, but can't afford it atm. Sigh.Oh, and to the person who's waiting on me to scan the HP current tracer 547A manual - the one I bought has arrived here. In good condition. My 'scanning desk' is currently occupied by another in-progress project, but that will be done soon. Then the 547A. It includes the full schematic.Edit: fix typo. One of many, probably.

author: bithead9
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:41:23 am
content: I agree with TerraHertz. Don't waste your time trying to interpret copyright laws. Scan the book for your own use and if someone PM's you for a copy who knows...maybe THEY will put it on a torrent site for posterity.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:51:49 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 01:31:07 pmThat's a crazy analogy.Take this in context. It is 60+ year old technical book that is out of print. The author is likely dead, and the publisher has been gobbled up twice since then. I bet if you called the current publisher who technically would retain the rights (although you don't know what the contract was with the author), I'd bet money they'd have no idea they ever printed that book.It is a book long forgotten in the annals of time. Classic case if there ever was for scanning and preservation. If the OP doesn't do it, who ever will?

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:56:13 am
content: When trying to understand the bizarre intricacies and absurdities of copyright law, don't forget that somehow, the song "Happy Birthday to you" is still under copyright.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You#Copyright_statusThe other thing to remember is that copyright infringement (with some exceptions) is not a crime against the state, but against an individual (corporations are also individuals).It is no different than a dispute with a neighbour over a fence.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:57:17 am
content: I'm sure the author put a lot of effort into writing the book in order to share knowledge with others. As such, the book contains the author's labour; it is the author who holds the moral rights to the work, not the original publisher. If any of us wrote such a book, I am sure we would be only too pleased to share it.To me it seems like a no-brainer. If the author were still alive then asking for permission to reproduce it would be right and polite. But if the author has passed on, what better memorial to his memory than a work he created?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 03:51:36 am
content: Quote from: IanB on May 26, 2014, 01:57:17 amWe can believe that the author retains the "moral rights" to their work, but except in very recent times, putting all that labor into writing a book would get you nowhere without the services of a publisher. And publishers typically required transfer of legal rights ("copy-right") in order to put their effort into the printing, distribution, and promotion.In recent times however, the internet has made "self-publishing" much more possible, not just for online distribution but even for one-off or on-demand printing of hard copies. I have recently purchased a couple of on-demand hard-copies, I believe from Amazon (or one of their subsidiaries). And the books were very well done for likely fully-automatic production from content in a database. I was impressed.

author: kc0ngu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 04:06:45 am
content: This web site :http://comminfo.rutgers.edu/~lesk/copyrenew.htmlallows you to check publication copyright, for books published 1923 - 1964. Seems like a handy tool to confirm or otherwise copyright renewal.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 11:09:04 am
content: There are many available on abebookshttp://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=Philip+Parker+-&sortby=3&x=38&y=6&tn=Electronics&kn=&isbn=

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on May 26, 2014, 11:09:04 amSigh. Shhh, you. Five isn't 'many'. Now by the time I have $40 to spare for one of them, they will be all gone.Had my eye on this 1st edition one:http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=7509104900&searchurl=an%3DPhilip%2BParker%26amp%3Bsts%3Dt%26amp%3Btn%3DelectronicsPrice: US$ 20.00 Shipping: US$ 27.00And yes, partly because I'd like to scan it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: kc0ngu on May 26, 2014, 04:06:45 am...for "U.S. copyright renewal records", so probably not going to contain anything from the UK.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:44:32 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on May 26, 2014, 12:37:14 pmWouldn't it have been quicker to try it? Like, as soon as you saw the link? Because:------Search results for query "Electronics Philip Parker" (411734 total records)Matching 2 of 3 words; there is 1 itemCLNA: SEESE, MILDRED PARKER.TITL: Electronics.XREF: Millman, Jacob.------http://www.copyright.gov/docs/datafields.htmlData Fields in Copyright Cataloging Online RecordssaysCLNA Name of claimant(s)-------More searching doesn't tell me who that person is (wife, descendant?) or if they are still alive. Or if they care.Anyway, I still think it needs to be scanned.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 05:42:15 pm
content: Arnolds the publishers are no more having been taken over in 2001 and Philip Parker died in 1960 as far as I can make out.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 07:53:59 pm
content: So, I've had the book disassembled at a local bookbinder (under 3 EUR, they have great services and prices) and started scanning the individual page blocks, then I will have it reassembled (which will cost 7 EUR with repairs to the binding included). So far I've managed to scan about 1/4 or 1/5th of the book, it went pretty quickly. Though some postprocessing (any volunteers, hints for automated OCR? ) will be needed.I've uploaded what I've got so far. Note: The pages are pretty much ordered randomly.WARNING: 90 MEG filehttp://daqq.eu/temp/1of4.zip

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 08:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmCopying a long out-of print book is more like dumpster diving

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 08:40:03 pm
content: Just do it. For those who never break a law (travelling slightly above the speed limit or not coming to a complete stop at every stop sign), then don't download it and you have nothing to worry yourself about.

author: monksod
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 07:05:27 am
content: Maybe we should all face the fact that the very idea of "copyright" is becoming largely obsolete. Torrent sites thrive & nearly everyone is a "pirate" in some way. And I think this is a good thing, in a way? Information (and entertainment) should be free. We gotta change our perspectives & get out of this "monetary reward" mindset (which is dragging this entire planet down into hell atm)... Money shouldn't be the incentive to help others or create art etc. That's fundamentally abhorrent, when you get right down to it.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 01:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: monksod on January 15, 2015, 07:05:27 amPlease reveal to us how you propose to pay the people who produce and distribute all that "free" information and entertainment? And if you can accomplish that, maybe you can take a crack at how you propose to incentivize the creative process to get these things going in the first place.You seem to have no concept of how things work in the Real World. Do you think the computer you are reading this on right now would have been developed and mass-produced (so you could afford it) without the capitalist profit-motive? Do you think installing the billions of $£¥€ worth of internet infrastructure to bring this website (and your bittorrents) to you happened on its own?

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 02:28:43 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 15, 2015, 01:39:45 pmHe may actually have been being sarcastic, although it's possible to infer many different tones from written words. Agree with your point though.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 02:10:35 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on January 14, 2015, 07:53:59 pmi scanned in a 1000+ page book a few years ago, used VueScan to scan it with low contrast settings and then post processed an example page in photoshop, then used the settings to batch process the remaining images. My book was 50/50 text & graphics do opted not to do any OCR with it.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 03:34:52 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on January 14, 2015, 07:53:59 pmHow were the pages imaged? There appears to be a shadow through the middle which suggests that the pages weren't flat against the glass when imaged. Unbinding the book is pretty aggressive. It would be a shame to discard that effort by not keeping the pages perfectly flat and lighted evenly when imaged.So the pages appear to be in signature order. (as printed before stitching each signature together). But when you separate the individual pages into individual files (or put them into a PDF file) it is easy enough to re-order them sequentially.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 03:46:02 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 25, 2014, 01:19:14 pm+1As at work (before retirement), it is easier to ask forgiveness then permission.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 12:02:27 am
content: Yay, this thread bumped up again. Which reminded me, I now could afford to buy that copy I linked to. It was still available (amazingly) and I got it. I *hope* it was still actually in the shop, rather than just a dead listing. Touch wood, that nothing goes wrong in the post and reshipping.Edit to add:Quote from: daqq on January 14, 2015, 07:53:59 pmWow, that really is an amazing book. I'm eagerly awaiting having a copy in hand.Daqq, you're going to a lot of trouble to scan it and kudos to you for that. But I think the result could be better with some improvements in your technique.Main points:* You have to get the pages flat on the glass. A springy backing, pressed hard on the document, is not optional. Holding the paper down with a few fingers doesn't work. Yes I know that's what you're doing, see pic 04 below - there's your hand. The dark shading on most pages is due to not having the paper flat.* TIFF is a non-lossy file format - that's good. But doing the scan in two-tone B&W (Fax mode) then letting the scanner software dither dots to approximate fine tonal shading, is a disaster. It also results in character edge jaggies. The large file sizes despite fairly lo-res scan and Fax mode, is due to coding all those dots for the dithered shading. The data loss is not recoverable via post processing.I hope you didn't yet scan the other three quarters of the book the same way. Because, I'm sad to say and knowing you won't like to hear this, it should be all done over again. In gray scale, and at high enough resolution to avoid moire pattering in the few toned photographs in the book. Since you went to the effort and expense of dissecting the book, it's a shame to get sub-par scanning results.* You have bleed-through of the text on the back of the pages. This is highly undesirable too. Can be avoided.Sorry to be blunt. I'm trying to save you putting in effort that will only result in griping from people who read the document you create.Last year I started writing an article on the techniques of scanning and digital book creation. It's one of those background projects that goes very slowly, not least because I'm still struggling with the techniques for dealing with print photo-screening. Which will be a section of the article, so I want to get that right before posting the article. Long way to go yet.But for now I've put a draft copy here:http://everist.org/temp/On_scanning.htmAlso related:http://everist.org/temp/20140812_disconnecting_the_dots.htmMaybe a few useful points for you.Ha ha... and that 126 page HP computer manual - I've decided I have to scan it all again, because at that time I hadn't figured out how to eliminate bleedthrough of the text on the back of sheets, and there's too much of it.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 08:24:52 am
content: Hi Terraherthz,Thanks for the tips, I'll look into it. I'll poke around the setting and see if anything will be better.The reason I was holding the book down with my hand was that it was really fast - the scanner in question is a real beast - I was doing somewhere around 4 pages/min - that's 16 book pages, without closing the lid. But you are right, quality suffered. I might get one of our interns to "volunteer" :-D Nah, I'll do it manually, though it will take more time.Anyways, yeah, the book is really great, I'm pretty sure you could design your own tube with the stuff there.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 09:29:36 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmNope, its not stealing. Stealing/theft have clear definitions under the law and do not apply to duplicating something. Itis"copyright infringement"Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmIMHO copyright was never intended to be used this way and everyone should take a stand by disregarding it when it is obviously wrong.Old works that are no longer published should not be copyright.If i had my way copyright would last 10 years max and only a person (or group of people where appropriate) could have copyright on something, not a company or business entity. The people would also have to be the ones who were personally involved in making or discovered the key aspects of the works.The music artist(s) could own the copyright, but not their agent or recording studio etc..

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 11:08:26 am
content: Technical Books are largely made up of a re-hash of stuff which is already Public Domain at the time of writing.Fiction or original works of scholarship are a more obvious case for copyright protection.Electronics took off in the early part of the 20th Century despite the efforts of various groups to confine knowledge by means of patents,copyright,etc.As it was in the interest of Electronics component manufacturers to sell a lot of parts,they eventually gave up & provided technical information quite widely.I'm quite sure the old magazines like "Radio & Hobbies"in Oz,& Wireless World"in the UK didn't peruse patents & copyright every time they produced a new project.

author: monksod
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 04:14:17 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 15, 2015, 01:39:45 pmMan, you really think the creative process requires "incentivizing" with money? You are obviously not artistically inclined.QuoteLol... in capitals even?QuoteWell, there's no reason why it couldn't be possible, is there? Which one of us has the wrong grasp on human nature I wonder?QuoteNo.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 04:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on January 17, 2015, 11:08:26 amFurther to that:http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/no-copyright-law-the-real-reason-for-germany-s-industrial-expansion-a-710976.htmlNo Copyright Law - The Real Reason for Germany's Industrial Expansion?By Frank Thadeusz 08/18/2010Both copyright and patent lawas originally envisagedwere somewhat beneficial to original creators. Now both have been twisted and perverted into tools of the corporations, almost entirely used to hinder human progress.http://everist.org/archives/links/__Copyright_DRM_links.txt

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 07:40:09 pm
content: Without getting into the rights and wrongs of this particular case,if you want to scan something quickly, I've found it much quicker to photograph each page instead. Not perhaps as neat as proper scanning but at around 1 or 2 seconds a page instead of 10 to 20 it is a lot faster. This is what I've done to backup my hardback notebooks.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 11:47:09 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on January 17, 2015, 07:40:09 pmI'm very interested in the details of how that went. Could you describe or post pics of the setup you used?And a sample page image, if possible. Presumably the file would be larger than the forum 1MB image limit, but if you could put an original full-res one online somewhere, that would be great.I've only done a few experiments with photo-capture of documents, and haven't liked the results much yet. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 01:20:42 am
content: There are several clever V-shape scanners, both commercial and DIY where you can lay the book open at about 90 degrees and take a photo of each of the opposing pages simultaneously. Some are inverted where you lay the book on top of the "pyramid". And some are the opposite where you lay the book in the V-groove "valley". And many of the "face-up" versions have glass plates that hold the pages flat while photographing. Some are even automated with page-turning gadgets.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 02:23:27 am
content: In a lower tech way, you can use a camera with a copy stand. The copy stand holds the camera at the right distance and correctly aligned with the page to be photographed. A glass sheet can be used to hold the page flat, and diffuse lighting from the sides can produce even illumination.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 04:45:43 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 18, 2015, 01:20:42 amThose are new to me! Thanks. Now I need to find examples of the resulting page images.I've been looking at 'book edge scanners' that have existed for a while, but they are expensive.It seems to me that not having the book level, so weights can be applied to suit the need, would be a big disadvantage.Quote from: IanB on January 18, 2015, 02:23:27 amYes, I know. I've found a few descriptions of this method, and tried it myself. Unfortunately it wasn't adequate for what I needed that time. But further experiments will happen.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 05:18:40 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 18, 2015, 04:45:43 amProbably higher resolution and quality than typical scanners. They commonly use inexpensive point-n-shoot cameras. Certain models are easily hacked to trigger both page cameras at the same time.QuoteThe weight of the book holds the pages against the two glass plates in the inverted version.In the version where the pages face up, that is why they have the glass "V" shape plates that hold the pages flat while imaging.

author: Chris Jones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 07:23:26 am
content: Here is a book that I scanned and uploaded :https://archive.org/details/DesignOfAerostaticBearingsI was lucky to be able to contact the author and get his permission (see note on the last page). As we could not tell whether the publisher held any rights (and the publisher went out of business), I contacted all of the publishers that we thought might be successors to the rights, and they all said they had never heard of that book, so that would be some kind of comeback if they ever complained in the future.I am sorry about the two missing pages and the scanning quality in general but I did it a long time ago and the library where I found it has long since discarded the physical book and deleted it from their catalogue, the library has been closed, and been sold by the council and turned into a housing development for rich people, so I can't go back and do it again. (All the more reason why I'm glad I did it though.)You might find this book interesting if you want to know about the bearings used in drills at PCB factories, and in the saws used for cutting up silicon wafers into chips.If you scan any books, wherever you upload them, please also upload to archive.org too.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 01:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 17, 2015, 11:47:09 pmI did it very crudely as I was only using it to backup my notebook which was hardbound so I just used my cheap compact camera with no flash and with some fairly bright external lighting (led desk lamp I think) and just turned the pages by hand and photographed them. I think I then compressed the photos further when I'd transferred them to computer.All I wanted was a readable record to preserve hand written data. So, no my results weren't brilliant but plenty good enough for me.If I was going to do a better job on a book (especially one that was removed from its binding) I'd set up a DSLR on a tripod pre-focused to a table top with lighting on at least two sides - this may take a little while to setup. And then hand feed in the sheets, take photo, turn sheet, take photo, transfer sheet to out pile and so on. Cameras automatically number the photos.Probably the results will never be as good as a scanner, but with the right setup it should be perfectly useable and much quicker per page (compared to cheap scanners - I know there some very fast and very expensive scanners out there like the one used by the British Museum to scan their archives).

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 04:06:59 pm
content: Quote from: monksod on January 17, 2015, 04:14:17 pmYes, innovation, art and music existed long before copyright law so anyone who says copyright violation will kill music, art, software etc. is wrong.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 12:59:44 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 18, 2015, 05:18:40 amWas that a typo? Do you really think CCD cameras (even high end ones) are better resolution than scanners? No, that's not true at all.Take the Canon 5D Mk III 22.3 megapixels. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras) Resolution is 5760 × 3840 pixels for the image.Even a cheap A4 scanner, set to only 600 dpi, is 7050 x 4950 pixels (11.75" x 600, x 8.25" x 600)Set it to 1200 dpi and it's 14,100 x 9,900 pixels per image. 139.6 Megapixels. With absolutely no lens and perspective distortions.And slightly better scanners, still costing a lot less than high end cameras like the Canon 5D, go to far higher dpi resolutions. Then there's A3 scanners. And above that, map scanners.QuoteI don't think you've ever tried scanning books. For starters, the 'weight of the book' very often isn't enough to get the pages flat on the glass. If a bunch of pages have any tendency to bow, it takes a lot of force to hold them flat. With that sloped pyramid design, how are you going to weigh the book down if it needs it (which it will)? Holding it by hand gets stale real fast.Hence I'm skeptical that a fixed "V" of glass plates will be adequate except in easy cases.But, like so many things, one never knows for sure until actually trying it. Advertising brochures regardless.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 02:53:43 am
content: Quote from: Chris Jones on January 18, 2015, 07:23:26 amThanks, that's definitely a book worth saving.QuoteIronic isn't it? By 'we' you include the author? The author couldn't determine who held the copyright? It's gone beyond ridiculous.QuoteTragic. Both the library disposing of it, and then being disposed of itself. A common story.But hey, although there are zero copies listed in abebooks' vast catalog, Amazon does have ONE.http://www.amazon.com/Design-aerostatic-bearings-J-Powell/dp/0853332045Only $358 dollars. Ha ha, you should have stolen that one from the library just before they destroyed it.QuotePersonally, only idle curiosity. But the loss of this kind of information is what I was going on about in the intro to my 'on scanning'. It wouldn't take much of a social structure 'hiccup' to totally lose such knowledge.QuoteMy earliest effort was this:http://everist.org/archives/scans/RAR-books/Truenames_V_Vinge_RAR-book.jpgIt's a RARbook - a zip file appended to a JPG image. Needs WinRAR to unpack. The book is html OCR'd text and embedded images, but the html was done long ago and is very primitive. I wasn't happy with the result, and am still searching for a packaging format I consider acceptable.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 02:56:28 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 20, 2015, 12:59:44 amHow many 8.25 x 11.75 inch books are you scanning? Page sizes are typically smaller than that.How many typical offset-printed books (of any size) even have resolution of 600 DPI? Especially older ones printed on rough paper.Yes I have scanned several books. Flatbed scanners are popular for amateurs with lots of spare time and only one book to scan.Whether you are using a camera or a scanner, holding the page flat against glass is an absolute requirement.Just letting the page fly around in the air a waste of time and effort.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 07:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 01:31:07 pmWe know right from wrong. The US copyright system is wrong.Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmAnd Robin Hood is an international hero.Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmA vacation home is a highly personal space. I suggest an alternative. There's a ruinous building in a downtown area owned by an investor that is holding it, waiting for property prices to rise. Maybe nobody from the owner has been to the property in a decade, and it's unlikely that anyone will have a look at it for another decade (except for the people living around it who need to put up with the ugly ruin and the rising rents due to far too much "buy and hold" investment going on).And squatters move in who would otherwise be living on the streets, paint the walls with colorful art, and turn it into an artists' enclave.In this case, I fully support the right of the squatters to utilize unutilized resources for the common good. Feel free to call me a communist.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 07:57:56 pm
content: (Also, if the question had been "can I take this 1950 book, reprint it, and sell it to make a fortune", I'd also say that's immoral. But that wasn't the question.)

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2015, 08:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 25, 2014, 02:45:25 pmNot so. It depends on what and why you are copying. As I pointed out in Reply #18 of this topic, theFair Use Statutepermits copying material for educational, non profit and some other purposes.