New Electronics lab, Layout, Design. The ULTIMATE space(for under 1400 bucks)... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 06:51:05 pm
content: Hello EEV. First time poster, long time lurker.Let me start off by saying I am a beginner in electronics with no formal schooling whatsoever. I am a carpenter by trade, semi retired. I am American and use both systems of measurement, so please don't bust my balls if it's JUST that I use feet and inches sometimes... For the last few years I have been dabbling in electronics, specifically to acquire the knowledge to create a few circuits for specific projects I have been working on, and it has been going well in that regard. I have been taking math and electronics courses online to give me a better understanding of what I am doing, and I found myself really enjoying electronics, it brings me peace and happiness! But as you can see, I do my electrical work on a kitchen table in my living room...So I am taking a big step and am going to build a custom electronics lab from ground up. I will document to process the best I can, and ask plenty of questions along the way. My goal and challenge is to have a small but highly functional and ergonomically correct space to work on electronics, test electronics, and a comfortable area for precision assembly of my final products....all in a 10'x7' room. In short, I want to make the ultimate electronics work area...a command center if you will, with everything ergonomically placed within reach, no expense spared(edit: 1400 dollars for this remodel)...So far I have the room framed, sheet rocked, insulated, and powered. I have a new dedicated 20 amp service going just to the room, a small wall heater and thermostat. This was an old indoor grow room so the outlets are mainly on the lid (ceiling), I will probably move those to the perfect location once I figure out where that is precisely. I have a 6" exhaust fan and ducting leading outside. I plan on using this for a custom fume extraction system.Here are pics of what I am starting with, I plan on moving the door to the location shown on the plans...Anyway this first post is getting pretty long, I will wrap this up with my first question...What is the perfectdepthof a work bench? I want to be able to reach the back wall for parts/tools and things. 3' seems a little far to reach, maybe 2' 8"? I know I need room for equipment and I want to get it just right. I could also make a "wrap around" style bench like sitting at a church organ...?Anyway hello again all, good to be here. Anyone help on the depth thing? Input from people that have done this before? Thank you up front!~Mike~

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 10:29:00 pm
content: Welcome!I always find space not enough for me, the more we have more we use.My bench is 3000x900mm, so 90cm depth, i find a very good value because you have good space and still able to grab something at back, for wall you will need to get up, ex: plug something into socket.I also have my walls with peg boards to hold tools and a upper table for other stuff.Main part of my bench on attachment, everything on wood was homemadeAs your space seens tight, try to optimize and have a good balance that seens good for you.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 02:33:54 am
content: Combining carpentry skills with an empty room is a great way to get to “the ultimate space” – your ultimate space.Regarding the depth of your bench – it really depends on what you plan to work on and what instruments you might acquire. Because a lot of instruments are quite deep, I tend to prefer benches that are on the order of 42 to 44 inches deep so that there is ample room to work in front of the instruments.As far as the layout and design to reach your ultimate space, I’m sure others will have lots of advice and there are threads on this board and others where people share pictures of their workspaces.My ultimate workspace started with a room that needed updating. I thought about how to proceed until one day when I found a couple of tool chest end cabinets on sale at a local store. Their blue color suggested that I could build a bench with similar appearance to commercial benches from Lista and others. The two drawer cabinets form the support ‘pedestals’ at the ends of the bench.I started by gutting the room. I replaced the ceiling and lighting, put car siding on the walls, painted the walls and doors, installed new oak trim and a new laminate floor. Then I went to work building the bench.The bench is about 42 inches deep and about nine feet long. I started by creating a grid of 2x4 lumber attached to the drawer pedestals and to the wall. I placed two sheets of ½ inch OSB on top of the grid and then covered that with a work surface made of ¾ inch thick by 2 inch wide oak strips, sanded and finished with several coats of Old Masters satin poly. This top is covered with a custom fitted anti-static mat. Under the bench is an area of enclosed storage and a roll-out CPU cart. These are finished in enamel mixed to match the end cabinet color.I have four monitors on the wall. Each has two inputs and together they accommodate VGA, DVI, HDMI, and Displayport so they can be used to test any device. They also can be used to mirror instrument screens and display datasheets, application notes, web resources, etc. These are flanked by two speakers to allow testing of audio equipment.There are Wiremold 6 inch spacing outlet strips along the rear of the bench and under the front as well. Additional outlets are located under the bench for the CPU’s. All outlets are protected by GFCI.On the other side of the room is an area with shelves for instrument storage and an enclosed rack that contains a GPS disciplined rubidium clock system, GPS network time source, UPS’s, power distribution, etc.The end wall has a workshop library containing reference books, technical manuals, catalogs, and databooks. There is also a 42 inch TV / monitor with disk player and digital cable for entertainment and viewing of tutorials, etc.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 03:42:31 am
content: My workbench is 33" deep and my shelves are 12" deep so I have 21" of usable depth. I can comfortably reach the test toys on the shelves with this setup. I could probably go 35-36" but I don't think it would be as comfortable and I have long arms. I used 3/4" MDF for the table top with a 24" deep EDS mat and 3/4" plywood for the shelves with unfinished edges. It's not fancy. I didn't sand/stain anything so it looks like it should be in a garage somewhere. My office is my space only so I go with function over form. I even have a Sanford and Son lazy susan I made to work on company equipment from scraps out of the garage. Looks like crap and works as it should. The only money spent was for the turntable itself.I appreciate the efforts that some people put into making a quality piece of furniture like xmo did. My father was far more skilled than I am. I am interested in good enuf.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 05:22:35 am
content: Great help so far, I am also a function over form type guy, and tend to make a mess. Xmo, your room is a real "bobby dazzler"...After reading all your posts and giving it some thought, I was going to settle on 3' deep until i gave some thought to the dimensions of the lumber in the states here. I plan on building the table out of one solid piece by joining 3 boards (most likely 1x material (.75 inches), but perhaps go real solid and build it with 2x (1.5 inches)..either way anything larger than 2x12 (1.5"x 11.5" would be really expensive. So 3 x 11.5"...my table will be 34.5 inches deep, give or take what I lose when joining.I am gonna get to work moving the door, moving the electrical, installing lighting, the fan, finishing the sheet rock and installing the floor...I will post a few pictures soon of my progress while pondering the true meaning of life, and paint color...I might pick up a hard wired power strip that runs the length of my bench, was looking at some attractive slim looking units typically meant to install under the length of kitchen cabinets. Or perhaps maybe a server rack type power distribution system that switches on all my equipment from one location. Anyway the Misses is wondering what the hell i'm doing, I'll keep in touch with an update soon.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 03:15:17 pm
content: Whatever you think you need for outlets, double it. I have 4, 8 outlet power strips and I have filled them all between network stuff, lighting and equipment. There is a 5th at the front of the bench for temporary use.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 06:14:01 pm
content: "Whatever you think you need for outlets, double it. "YES !!

author: awallin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 06:17:34 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 17, 2019, 03:15:17 pmThis rule also applies when installing RJ45/CAT6 and/or fiber for data connections

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 06:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: awallin on January 17, 2019, 06:17:34 pmNo for those 5 times more than you think. Not joking.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 06:49:39 pm
content: This room is in a corner of a 100 square meter unfinished basement, and the wall on the 7' length where my bench will be has no sheet rock on the other side. This way I can get to constructing the built-in aspects of my space, and put the electrical in where I need it after the fact, depending on the dimensions I decide to go with. This is a big plus for me. I will be able to not only install any outlets properly...after my framing, but I can add outlets and change locations as I see fit without too much effort.Checking my electrical building codes currently while planning, right now this room is a red flag for sure, so in this process I will add the necessary outlets and switches in the proper locations to bring it up to code in that respect.Pondering my lighting and fume extraction details...I'll post later on with close pictures of my ducting and fan unit that I have ready to install. I've never made a fume extraction system, but my 6" inline fan is nice and quiet and sucks like a 2 dollar who....um you get the idea, I figure it will work brilliant..IF..I can figure out some way to get the suction on my desk. Perhaps a flexible semi rigid duct that comes from the ceiling that I can position near my soldering, then easily bend it back up out of the way...not sure, gonna do some research there. Anyone else build a custom fume extraction system? What exactly do you use at the end of the system that sucks the fumes?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2019, 01:07:04 am
content: You might want to check your dimensions on the plan they didn't add up for me.For fume extraction they normally just use a fan to create suction and one or two filters, as you are probably aware they are fairly expensive to buy off the shelf. OnPaul Daniels youtube channel(user Inflex on EEVblog) he shows how to make one fairly inexpensively, it depends really what you are going for.Corgitronics (user Circuitous on EEVblog) has one of the better setups for a small space, the fume extraction is built into the back of the desk which you can find more info abouton his website. The main test equipment shelving is adjustable, he also has adjustable steel shelving on the left which can take deeper and heavier test equipment. Magnification is to the side, accessible and doesn't interfere with shelving. Room for knees under the desk, plenty of storage.The only thing I would change is I would have a larger LED display in front of me and my main oscilloscope below it and the keyboard and mouse on a slide tray or stowed under the bottom shelf. The hand tools I'd move where the PC is so they are nice and close.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 07:44:43 pm
content: UPDATE! Sorry been super busy remodeling my home, and just got the OK from the wife for the work space. And Shock, you might be right, I kept changing my mind on dimensions, lots of erasing, and yeah...I'll get the fine points ironed out.I plan on using this thread for sort of an online log of this entire project. It will involve details on the fume removal system, mains electrical wiring, lighting and dimmers, flooring, bench construction...all the way to finish and equipping the space. No real rhyme or reason, but I will try to include the details that I think might be in interesting or of use. This is for my own records as much as anything, but could be of help to anyone else that is considering building a custom electronic work space from ground up. I will keep detailed records of my expenditures and provide a total at the end (already in $620 US...lol)...remodeling is not cheap.So I'm starting today, changing out the tandem 20/15 breaker with 15/15 amp (Seimens panel does not take GE breakers apparently regardless of what the interweb says, so I gotta drive a bit to get that). I have 12/2 wire running in the circuit with a 20 amp breaker, but the existing outlets are only rated for 15 amps(my mistake back in 2004 when I wired it, my house is still here though, thank god I had no issues). I could upgrade to 20 amp outlets but I figured I do not need it, and am just going to change the breaker to 15/15. Gotta move the door, frame down a sofit to cover the I-beam, and install all the new electrical. I have a few questions on 0-10 volt dimmers, but I am still researching that, I will post soon...take care.PS...Got this scope and amp probe in my local wanted for 40 bucks(last pic). Thing apparently works! Not sure about the amp probe...but yeah SCORE! Can't wait to get my bench back setup.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 02:58:24 am
content: Some electrical thoughts:It's OK to have 15 Amp outlets on a circuit fed by a 20 Amp breaker.You normally don't want your workshop outlets to share the same circuit as your lights so an overload won't leave you in the dark.Some people like to have some or all of their bench turn on with the room lights - that can be done with relay control.You might want outlets controlled by the room lights for your soldering equipment - peace of mind that there's less likelihood you will leave the shop with something that's hot.If you really want to follow code - see if your area now requires ground fault or arc fault protection.Even if they don't - you should put a GFCI outlet as the first one on your bench power circuit and slave the rest for your protection.Some people recommend an EPO for the circuit that serves the bench so that you can kill all power if something starts to fry.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 03:13:51 am
content: GreyWoolfeWhat did you doto your poor dog!Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 17, 2019, 03:42:31 am

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:46:28 am
content: Quote from: xmo on January 28, 2019, 02:58:24 amThanks for the input. I like the "soldering outlet" connected to the lights idea! I will do that for certain, you can never be too safe or have enough piece of mind. Had another question, do you think a GFCI outlet and a circuit breaker protected power strip is ideal? or would I safely be able to use a non circuit breaker protected power strip on the gfci protected outlet?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 10:10:49 am
content: I'd settle on the room layout before power then it's not done as an after thought. You always end up using way more outlets than you plan for. My requirements may be different, but I'd plan to have a minimum of 4 free outlets on my bench alone and that is after everything else is connected on the bench and shelves.You are going to want the room wired to code, otherwise no insurance. Having all your test equipment on GFCIs is preferable as it's an early warning for accidents. As the room is small Emergency Power Off might be suitable within arms reach of you and the door if you can manage it. That way you can instruct family how to use it and then can make the room safe if assistance is ever required in a worse case scenario.For me lighting and bench lighting on a separate circuit and individually switched, once you know where your shelves are going and how to light them you can have it prewired and attached later.I wouldn't like my bench power controlled by the lighting as I might prefer to run something with the lights out overnight. Pilot lights can be used to show if bench power is on, a bit easier to see at a glance.For soldering equipment, if you buy something like the station I use (the Pace ADS200) it has auto sleep and for $20 more stand detection which powers down the iron when it's returned, super quick to heat up as well so useful for minimal fumes in a small space.Regarding power strips and outlets there are some things to consider. Non individually switched outlets turn on many pieces of equipment at the same time. The inrush current can nuisance trip some GFCI and circuit breaker type devices. If you do have gear with big transformers you can look into soft starting them.Switching gear on at the rear and even accessing the power strips and switches may be awkward depending on how they are positioned. You may opt for controlling smaller amounts of gear at a time so that you can avoid turning 20 things on at once.For this reasonrecently I moved to using PDUs(power distribution units) the same type as used on server racks. Mine are not switchable manually but can be through an interface. They do offer staggered power up which is a nice feature.Don't forget a smoke alarm, fire extinguisher and internet, some of the other important things to put into the room as well.I'd look for other threads as well to get ideas.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 03:06:20 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on January 28, 2019, 03:13:51 amI do not clean my dogs with IPA!!!! I was cleaning some sticker residue off of a computer case and hadn't put it away yet when I took the pictures.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 11:14:17 pm
content: To me it appears that you had perhapsshrunkyour dog, perhaps by washing him inveryhot water!(joke!)

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 01:57:34 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 28, 2019, 11:14:17 pmNope, that is a boutique dog so small, he fits inside of the insulated glass and looks like he is part of it.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 10:50:10 pm
content: I just finished my latest dedicated home lab. Which is actually my daily workspace since I work from home 99% of the time. Here are a few ideas.AC Power: I have 20 duplex outlets evenly spaced around the room on all four walls. All wiring is 12/2 for 20 amp service. Every other outlet is connected to a 20A combo arc-fault/ground-fault breaker, and every OTHER other outlet is connected to a second 20A combo breaker. The first set of outlets are white, and the second set are black, so at a glance you know which circuit you're on. All of my normal stuff, test equipment, etc. is powered off the white circuit, and anything AC powered that I'm working on is powered from the black circuit, so if my DUT pops a breaker the test equipment stays powered and can record the event, plus they don't get cycled unnecessarily. There are enough outlets everywhere that I'm never tempted to "just plug into the nearest one", the proper circuit is always close at hand.Lighting: Gobs of recessed cans in the ceiling, every one with 5000K color temperature floods to give me pure white light without shadows. Lighting is also on a third dedicated breaker so the lights don't go out when my DUT does something stupid.Dedicated soldering table: Includes an LED drafting-with-magnifier light on one of those foldy-bendy arms, but its power switch has been forced permanently on. This plugs into the same power strip as all of the heated tools (irons, desoldering guns, hot air tools, etc.). It's impossible to accidentally leave the hot tools powered because you cannot turn off the drafting light without depowering them too. (My son has done this a few times and ruined a few expensive desoldering tips.)No windows that go to the floor: This space used to have a sliding glass door, but we replaced it with a 24 inch tall sliding window to regain the six feet of wall space so more bench space could be installed. There's no such thing as too much bench space. So far we have over 20 linear feet of bench space and we're looking at adding more. It's not a dark cave, though... it has 180 degrees of windows that look out onto the lake where we live for inspiration. During the day there's so much natural light that the overhead floods aren't even necessary. Natural light is a huge advantage, both visually and emotionally, so allow for it if your location permits.Conduit: CAT6 is popular today, but standards change. Who knows what you'll need tomorrow. So before you seal up the walls, run at least one (I ran two, to opposite walls) Sch80 conduits from your home's mechanical space to your new lab. That way you can pull coax, fiber, whatever into the lab without opening up the walls (opening walls is a PITA anyway, and just think of the dust you'll get into your equipment when you cut, patch, and sand that drywall someday. YUCK.)Permits: Definitely take out an electrical permit, get it inspected, and get the approval sticker. If anything goes wrong, the other respondent comments about insurance are absolutely true. Don't give the insurance company an excuse to deny coverage. Plus, you don't want to miss the expressions on the face of the inspector when he sees all those outlets!There's a few things to keep in mind that many people might not consider. I've done this a few times and have accumulated a list of features I need in a home lab. Pick and choose those that are important to you, and report back. Home labs are the ultimate status symbol, and Jim Williams was correct when he said they are almost an unfair advantage to boot.

author: romaxx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 10:58:41 pm
content: electronic workshop

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 12:56:26 am
content: Cool idea to recess the scope and storage into the wall! If you have the space on the other side, that's very convenient.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 12:46:37 am
content: Hello,I don’t have too much space, so I built me a 113 cm x 67 cm workbench. The shelf is 113 cm x 30 cm, so I can put middle sized instruments on it.To be able to use the whole surface of the bench, the shelf is 45 cm over the surface of the table. I keep the instruments that are not in use in a cupboard and the tools in drawers.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 03:08:58 pm
content: UPDATE:I have been chugging away a few hours a night. My wife told me "let's not overthink it"...which is code for "get this thing built already and stop buying stuff or installing any more outlets..."...Next up, complete the framing, install the fume extraction system, and get the rest of the drywall hung and finished. I was originally going to do a "level 5" smooth wall finish, but after talking to the wife a bit I decided on regular knock down wall texture...this will allow me to easily fix any damage to the walls from hanging things/charts/posters/support brackets...etc... in case I want to resell the house or re purpose the room(doubtful but just in case).As far as the fume extraction system goes, I was originally going to use a 6" fan, but it was so powerful it made the old door warp from the pressure in the room when I turned it on. I downgraded to a 42 watt 4" fan, and after a little testing determined it to be sufficient in removing smoke from about a foot away from the soldering iron which is good for me. I plan on installing a fan speed control in the future, but my costs are piling up big time, so regular switch for now. I have a small drop down ceiling that will house the fan and it's dedicated outlet so I can plug it in as opposed to hard wire it to my circuit, allowing me to service/replace/upgrade it in the future. It will run off the "soldering station" outlet and will also only be usable when the light is switched on to the room.I debated about the height of the bench(es) for a few hours, and determined that 31" to the top is ergonomically correct for me based on my height. My wife's bench will be 28" to the top. I am not close to building the benches yet, but needed to make this determination to correctly place a few outlets.I plan on using 2'x4' integrated led troffer lights. Typically these are for commercial applications in t-bar ceilings. This will provide a few challenges that I will cover in my next post, mainly how to frame them in without purchasing additional and expensive flush mount kits.I have a few specific questions about 0-10 volt led dimming and will post those soon.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 03:34:07 pm
content: Quote from: ferdieCX on January 31, 2019, 12:46:37 amI prefer drawers and cabinets with doors for tool/equipment storage as well. Pegboard and other open storage systems always bugged me a bit due to dust and spiders...lol. I get that sometimes it's cool to display your hobby collection, whatever that might be, but when it comes to electronics, I prefer to keep unused equipment stored dust free.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2019, 04:21:35 am
content: Quote from: Tetzly on February 04, 2019, 03:08:58 pmNice tactic, tell her she needs her own oscilloscope when you need to upgrade.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2019, 07:53:50 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 28, 2019, 03:13:51 amThat's GreyWoolfe soaking in Vodka or Ouzoafter tackling a tough dog repair

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2019, 09:05:43 pm
content: That was an epic fail. I tried to repair the dogs but both of them, especially the doberman mix, are BER!! That's OK, they'd be a lot less fun if they were perfectly repaired. And it would be vodka, particularly Grey Goose. I tried Ouzo, it's a bit much for me.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:13:29 am
content: UPDATE:Finishing the sheetrock now, making pretty good progress. I just got these commercial integrated led lights, $100/pair. They are made to be in a drop down grid office ceiling, or "t-bar" ceiling as I always call them. I framed a drop down ceiling to cover a support beam in my basement, and in the process framed a space for this light and my exhaust fan. These lights look like a flat piece of plastic, I can't wait to see them lit up, I am very excited if you can't tell...I will have to build a "picture frame" support so the light will have 100% perimeter bearing like it is designed for, this will be glued and screwed flat on the rough 2'x4' opening I have framed in.I am putting the light on a regular switch for now, but plan on buying (or building) a 0-10volt light dimmer.Question....is 18 gauge wire (say 18/2 copper thermostat wire) sufficient for a 0-10v dimmer switch?PS...oh yeah, no worthwhile project goes without some blood in my world...

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:31:07 am
content: Quote from: romaxx on January 29, 2019, 10:58:41 pmI'm really liking the built in, flush mount parts drawers. I have to start thinking about that, I have one plastic parts thing currently....and many random bins.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 03:23:56 pm
content: Starting to look like a proper lab space...I have a nice stockpile of varying sized, high quality commercial tables from a local school closing, and have decided to go the table route as opposed to built in benches for now. Having a school like learning atmosphere is important to me, and creating a science lab ambiance will keep me focused on working and studying. As I work and gain more equipment I plan on building appropriate shelving or work space to accommodate it, and this way I can make sure I know my specific needs before I construct any built in units.I finally got the correct 15a/15a breaker installed and tested my electrical installation....working as expected, victory! Sheetrock is textured and primed, and it came out 7/10ish for an amateur like me. Installing the exhaust fan was smooth and easy, and now I am moving on to the floor and a finish coat of paint.I chose Armstrong commercial VCT tile for the floor. This is the same flooring they use in schools, hospitals, and science labs here in the states. It's very tough, stain resistant, has minimal out gassing, and if I match the wall color in a neutral gray or blue hopefully it will make this room look really good in an "industrial" sort of way.About to get to the fun part, actually moving in to my new room...and I can't wait.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 03:56:36 pm
content: Unless you have brought the paint already go white, looks nice with grey or cream accents. With a small room you want it to be as bright as possible. There is also the chance when you put down an antistatic mat and equipment it will make anything other than white look like too much color. The gray floor tile looks good hopefully slightly static dissipative considering their intended use.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 04:00:56 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on February 17, 2019, 03:56:36 pmYeah good point, I don't want a full gray out. I found some high quality light gray paint in the "oops" section of my home store for 9 bucks and have been determined to paint something with it...lol. I will probably do exactly what you have pictured there, mostly white with some light gray accents somewhere.Armstrong sells a specific vct tile esd flooring...but at 7 dollars/s.f. it would be over half my entire budget (the stuff I got is about 1 dollar/s.f.)..At this point in my hobby career, I don't work on valuable esd sensitive stuff too much, and when i get to that bridge I can get a mat if needed.PS...(gray is the more popular spelling in the US, while grey reigns supreme in the UK)...interesting.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 03:52:15 am
content: Maybe you could use some of that gray for the lower 1/3 of the room like I did when I finished my garage - semi gloss gray, separated with a glossy black band and egg shell white above it. It doesn't affect the light much at all but adds a little something to break up plain white walls.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 04:15:51 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on January 17, 2019, 06:14:01 pmAlso, it's nice to have a circuit (with breaker) just for you DUTs, so that when you do something incredibly stupid and trip the RCD, you don't end up sitting in the dark and having to reboot all your instruments.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 06:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on February 20, 2019, 03:52:15 amI might get really creative with the gray paint and name my room or do some fancy painting, stay tuned...lol. I love the feature strip by the way, I almost went checkerboard with my floor, but I really liked the way the solid gray looked. I got it installed and am doing the finish work right now. It looks great! I'll post some pictures tonight.Quote from: djacobow on February 20, 2019, 04:15:51 amI only have one circuit going to the room as of now, and it is dedicated to just that room. Additionally there is no sheet rock on two of the opposite walls in the room, so upgrading in the future will be a breeze if blowing my breaker starts to become a problem. I have an emergency lighting system I might install. I'll throw some pics of that up later as well.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 07:05:08 pm
content: QuoteAs I said earlier:Quote

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 08:32:01 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on February 20, 2019, 07:05:08 pmI'm going wireless I think. I have a cat5 location in my basement, and all the rooms in my house have cat5 outlets. Never used it though. The cable junction box is a clear shot to my room, 10' away with no issues if I need it in the future. I have near full access to all my electrical, so I can even just stick it in any one of my existing 2 gang boxes and get a special face plate to accommodate it. I have 2 junction boxes in the 2 walls I cannot access, and I can feed wires to them, and make them whatever I want really.I kinda blew my budget up, well, I officially did...lol. So yeah, I'm in wrap it up mode pretty much. I might have to change the title to the ultimate space for UNDER 1400 bucks...lolMy electrical service is pretty close to maxed out as well. If I add any more circuits, I'll have to contract out a sub-panel install at a fairly large cost unfortunately. This is something I have planned in the future when I finish remodeling my basement...so when that project starts, i'll upgrade and slap another dedicated circuit in my room.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 01:29:48 am
content: Quote from: Tetzly on February 20, 2019, 08:32:01 pm...and the project has been cancelled due to budget constraints.Part of the fun with labs/workshops, they are always something to improve on over time and at least you have a nice space now ready to go.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 01:48:51 am
content: Quote from: Tetzly on February 20, 2019, 08:32:01 pmHave no fear, what you need is a dual circuit breaker:I do not mean a dual-ganged breaker where tripping one side takes out both. If you look closely, you'll see that the two levers on this breaker are completely independent. There are two separate breakers in one panel space. You can even get them with dissimilar current ratings (15A and 20A are common).This will allow you to install a new circuit in your existing breaker box even if it appears to be fully populated. There! Problem solved.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 03:32:39 am
content: Quote from: Shock on February 21, 2019, 01:29:48 amI am really excited about that aspect, the room is a canvas now, and the painting has just begun! The floor came out really nice. I read a ton of horror stories about the tiles and floor glue I used...but this was a pretty hard installation, and I just brushed it off as homeowners getting in over their head on a pass/fail sort of project, and I was right. My basement sub floor was a little squirly, and I leveled the underlayment the best I could...and had to scribe out a few bumps out of the baseboard, but I honestly could not be happier with how the finished floor looks.So the door, base, and trim are all installed, like IDEngi said, at this point it's about getting the lights installed. I need to order a flush mount kit for a 2x4 integrated led troffer light for my wife's side. I was going to build one, but if it fell on her I would never live it down...i'll trust it to the Chinese.Quote from: IDEngineer on February 21, 2019, 01:48:51 amI do have one tandem breaker already in the box for this room's circuit. My issue is the total amperage my panel is rated for. My house was built with an unfinished basement, and typically they do not give much room for growth so to speak. I ran all the math about 8 years ago and I was good to go with one 20 amp circuit down there, which I since changed to 15amp. I think adding another circuit will be pushing the safety threshold for total amperage though. I'll check my panel and do the math again in the morning.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 03:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: Tetzly on February 21, 2019, 03:32:39 amThe total potential amperage of all breakers does not have to be "below" the main breaker rating, nor the rating of the box itself. You're unlikely to turn on all circuits at the same time, and code recognizes this. If you did turn them all on and exceed the current rating, the main breaker would pop and protect things. You're totally safe in adding a circuit.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 05:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on February 21, 2019, 03:59:55 pmSo like electric heat and air conditioning take the most power and are not on concurrently...makes sense. I cannot find the specific electrical code that covers this. My panel is rated for 150A, and apparently that rating is determined by the current carrying capacity of the bus bar. I totaled my breakers and I'm over double the 150A on each branch. I have lived in this house since 2004, and work with fairly high amperage power tools all the time, and I cannot recall ever blowing a breaker to be honest. I have worked on homes that popped the breaker all the time, and we had to get temporary power to complete the job sometimes. I wonder if these situations were because of a low amp rated panel drawing too much total amps.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 08:15:49 pm
content: Quote from: Tetzly on February 21, 2019, 05:35:28 pmJust a couple of months ago, we finished out the lower level of our house. I took out my own permit and did all of the electrical work, including installing a subpanel so the new romex runs didn't have to all go the entire length of the house back to the main panel (a net savings in cost and definitely convenience). I wired and breakered the new subpanel for 60A per leg. I just now added up the breakers in that box and they total 220A. So, theoretically, I could try to draw 220A through all of its breakers. Obviously the ganged 60A breaker serving the panel would trip long before I reached 220A, so the system is safe - and the Idaho State Inspector's sticker on the subpanel confirms that for anyone who cares to check.You're not likely to exceed the rated amperage of the box. The Siemens subpanel I used has bus bars that are rated for 10,000 amps. Seriously. I just looked, that's the number on the factory sticker on the panel. It's a ridiculously high number, and no one is going to use anything like that amount of current through it, but the point is there is so much safety margin that you have basically zero risk as long as you breaker it properly going in and coming out.Just put a(nother) double breaker in there and get on with your project. 12/2 if you use a 20A breaker, 14/2 if you use a 15A breaker.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 07:34:16 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on February 21, 2019, 08:15:49 pmMakes me wonder why they rate the panels, or what the realistic difference between a 150-200A panel would be. Well I feel a little better now, running a new circuit down there is a piece of cake (unfinished garage, unfinished basement, no sheet rock to go through)...just a matter of drilling a few holes and pulling a bit of wire, and it's not that far. I will probably wait a bit until the sticker shock of this project wears off the wife, I still need a few things to get up and running as it is, and that's not including the new lab gear I want to get!. I have a box ready for that outlet when the time comes.On another note, I started working on a custom work bench today. I scrapped the original plan of built in benches and shelving to go with school tables, and have been struggling with ideas to augment my now smaller desk area. I always wanted a custom electronics lab bench, solidly built with integrated shelf and power etc....but the costs are insanely high for anything industrial quality. So I decided I would just custom build one out of 2 tables.These tables are 1 1/8" thick (about 30mm), and have hard plastic on the edges, they are very solid. I cut one up to make a shelf and two support pieces. I pocket hole screwed the shelf to the side brackets, and will screw the assembled shelf down to the top from underneath, although it is very sturdy just sitting on the table with no fasteners. I gotta clean it up a bit and throw some paint on the wood areas. I might put pegboard on the back and on the inside of the side supports, maybe some under shelf lighting, and perhaps an integrated power strip. I'm not that skilled at electronics, so it's important I look the part...Here is what I got so far...(the white stuff is wood filler covering the old leg mounting holes and will get painted gray).

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 03:43:06 am
content: UPDATE:I finished painting the trim and door. Installed my light finally, 5500 lumens is no joke, the thing is very bright and floods the room with light. I have one more to install once I track down the right flush mount kit...and you will need a welding mask to be in my room, 11k lumens in 80 square feet...lol, I might need a dimmer sooner than later. The desk came out great, and looks nearly new. I have a few storage decisions to make at this point. I will be keeping my eye out for some quality white upper cabinets and some under desk drawer cabinet units, but for now I'll make due.I literally just need to paint the walls and put the wall plates on and I'm moving in! I will probably make a Youtube video to document the move. Not exactly like Dave Jones getting a new lab, but for me, this is a really exciting time!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 02:49:17 pm
content: Quote from: Tetzly on February 25, 2019, 03:43:06 amI have 22K lumens over my workbench alone.Mrs GreyWoolfe says I have the sun in my office when I turn on one of them. There is nothing like an abundance of light. It helps my poor old tired eyes, especially when soldering. Enjoy your new space. You did an awesome job getting it done.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 05:48:07 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on February 25, 2019, 02:49:17 pmLol, you must have a nice tan.And thanks mate, I'm super excited, getting so close to becoming my new cave.

author: dicky96
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2019, 05:54:26 pm
content: FWIW this is my current workshop. It's only small, about 2m by 3.5m so 7 square metersAs you can see I made the most of the space by putting shelving butted up against the rear and one side of the workbench, with one level of the shelving at the same height as the bench. This kinda gives me an expanded work area and everything is easily to hand.My bench is 80cm x 160cm and you can see it almost fills one side the room. The shelving and work bench are from IKEA.You will also see i am not the tidiest person in the world! I also appear to have a lot less kit than most of you!!Small thought it is, I actually use this workshop in a semi professional manner (meaning I make money from repairs and also from buy-repair-sell work, but it is not my main source of income)I'm moving later this month into a 27.5 Square meter workshop and investing in some more kit as I want to expand the amount and type of jobs I can take on. I can't wait to move - for example I had a 70 inch LCD TV for repair last month and couldn't work on it as it would not even fit in the workshopAd others have mentioned - you need GOOD LIGHTING to work successfully. Or at least I do. I have a twin florescent fitting fixed to the top of the shelving directly above the workbench plus illuminated bench magnifier.Anyway here are some pics, I hope you think I make good use of all the available space.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 04:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: dicky96 on March 05, 2019, 05:54:26 pmI like it! Our rooms are about the same size, and working out of a small room certainly generates clutter...it's not just you. I realized having a separate computer desk is kind of nice. As it is now, I searched my house for the smallest monitor I have because my larger Dell monitor was taking up too much bench space, but I am planning a different solution. I have been in my lab a ton since I finished, and actually plugging away in the room has opened my eyes to my work space and storage needs. I am currently keeping my eye out for some white upper cabinets, I might have to build them myself though.On another note, I had a fairly big design fail with the other light I installed (my wife's light). As I stated before, this is a commercial 2'x4' troffer light designed for a drop ceiling grid installation. I assumed I could purchase a flush mount kit for it, and wired an appropriate box in the ceiling, but the slide in sides for flush mount light kits are on the short side of the 2'x4' dimensions...in other words you need a full four feet extra ceiling space to slide the light into the fixture once installed! I was not close, so I had to build one that excepted the light on the long side, allowing me to actually complete the install. This light box took me a few days, and was not that easy to build. Three sides needed to be fixed, and one 4' side needed to be removable. The time and hassle involved in constructing and installing it outweighed the cost savings in my opinion, but it fits the room well, and is actually the professional look I was going for.As you can see, my move in is going slowly. Hopefully my next update will include beautiful and glorious storage solutions...Additionally, I am working on an enclosure for my 3d printer, using a very stout AV cart as the base. I'll detail that pretty well(if it works out!...lol). I plan on having built in power, lighting, recycling carbon filter system, and perhaps some sort of safety feature like a high thermal sensing mains shutoff or something. Maybe another thermostat controlled filtered ventilation system that is non recycling and inputs/outputs outside...then I could dial in the exact ambient temperature in the enclosure, of course a digital interface for said fan controllers would be nice......

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 05:14:43 pm
content: Nice job on that lighting fixture!I had a similar situation involving window blinds a while back. My wife convinced me not to be the general contractor this time around, so we hired a guy who turned out to be a total hack. I had to micromanage and second guess everything the guy and his crew did. Since I was still spending all of the time to be the general contractor, I fired him and hired my own crews and finished the project myself. But not until after the drywall was hung. Fast-forward to final trim, and I'm installing window blinds. The top of the window openings are finished with typical drywall, but I discovered the idiots didn't put any headers over the openings! These were new windows, cut into existing outside walls, and they simply didn't bother to put headers across the top. The drywall at the top of the opening had nothing behind it.My solution was to get some unfinished pieces of knotty alder that matched the new doors, cut them to fit the top of the window openings, and then run small screws at a super-aggressive angle so the wood would be supported by the studs on either side. A bit of putty and hand-touchup and it looks like it was meant to be that way, and then I hung the blinds from the wood. Like your lighting fixture, sometimes you gotta get creative!

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 06:03:20 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on March 06, 2019, 05:14:43 pmI see and hear stories like yours more and more often these days. Craftsmanship, self sufficiency, attention to detail, framers caring for other trades/installers...all sort of dying off in our mass produced, throw away world. Toggle bolts holding up fixtures on poorly laid out walls with no backing happens all the time these days, instead of running blocking and backing as needed per the finish plans.And thanks mate! The light problem has been a big one, I nearly went with a different light just because I knew it was going to be pretty tough to build one from scratch...but as you pointed out, if you have custom needs, sometimes you just gotta make it happen yourself.

author: dicky96
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 10:12:26 pm
content: QuoteHey thanks :-)I designed the room layout that way out of necessity. It's allowed me to do enough work to get a name for myself here, but I can't wait to get into my new workshop with at least four times the floor area and see what I can do with that!Along with more space I'm also gonna invest around £2000 in more kit. I did plenty of research and found some types of work I am keen to get into, which I am sure will be more than profitable enough to warrant the expense.Rich

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 11:31:26 pm
content: Quote from: Tetzly on March 06, 2019, 06:03:20 pmBTW, I've found a 3D printer to be super-valuable for things like that. In the past I would have hogged out some half-baked "solution" using a Dremel and other hand tools. Now, for anything within about 150mm^3 volume, I crank out a design and turn it loose on the 3D printer. Accuracy, repeatability, angles, etc. are all infinitely better than anything I can do by hand, and the parts are psuedo-monolithic. Instead of "settling" because I'm not sure I can make something a few millimeters better by hand, I can make very accurate tweaks and just 3D print it again. A couple of iterations and it can be nearly perfect.3D additive fabrication is a boon to DIY'ers like you and me. Amazingly cheap, too... my 17YO son has his own now, an Ender3, that cost under $200 and produces AMAZINGLY high quality results. I mean truly stunning, as good or better than what my $1200 Lulzbot Mini churns out. 3D printers are kinda like oscilloscopes, it's absolutely crazy how much instrument you can get for a few hundred dollars today when I remember what prices were on HP and Tek gear back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.

author: romaxx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2019, 11:56:01 pm
content: Novo laboratório de eletrônica

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 01:14:36 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on March 06, 2019, 11:31:26 pmI've been designing all sorts of things on my Ender 3. It prints perfectly, and fast. I've been making 1/8 scale(100mm) replica skateboards with it. I use Tinkercad to shape and design the molds, print them out with 100% infill, then use them to press the boards out of 6-7 plys of maple...just like a real skateboard. I then print a finish size jig to match the contours of the mold(finished board), and it clamps securely on top of the glued blanks. It has the shape of the board and a perfectly placed truck mounting hole drill guide that works like a pocket hole jig, with incredible accuracy thanks to CAD and the 3d printer. I know it's sounds weird, but yeah it's fun, lol.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 01:48:38 am
content: I love hobbies where you get to make something that combines so many different aspects (woodworking, electronics, programming, art, etc). I built my daughters loft beds for their bedrooms. Designed them using Cadsoft Eagle LOL, cut all the lumber, built it, painted it. Then designed RGBW LED light strip controller PCBs utilizing PIC microcontrollers to dim and mix the colors, fade out after a time period so they could fall asleep with them on and they'd shut off after 10 minutes if the PIR doesn't detect any motion.I'd really like to get into 3D printing. I haven't made the jump yet because I thought the prices were still a tad too high for only the occasional use, but when I saw that post from IDEngineer about the Ender3, I was blown away at how cheap they have gotten and still capable of good prints. I think it would be something else to get my kids into. My oldest likes programming already and if she could design things with her ideas, I might have to buy stock in a filament company. haha

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 07:59:44 pm
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on March 12, 2019, 01:48:38 amMy wife and I were talking about that last night. We came to the conclusion there is money to be made if the scope of your work/product requires many different specialties...but you can do them all yourself.And I would vouch for the Ender 3. Banggood has it for 190 bucks delivered. The filament seams to last forever, I've printed a ton of things and haven't even dented my first roll. The filament I'm using is Inland brand, and only 14.99/spool at the Microcenter near my house. So far it prints flawlessly, with very little fiddling with the bed. It's pretty close to a regular printer at this point...load up the job and hit print.My printer was sent to me with slightly mis-cut aluminum extruded parts that make up the printer housing. I had to use a few paper shims to keep everything perfectly square while building it. I think my attention to detail in this regard is why it prints so perfectly...So keep that in mind if you buy one, they are cheap for a reason, and require a little more attention when assembling to get a good working printer.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 08:32:59 pm
content: Thanks Tetzly for the insight on them. My attention to detail almost borders on excessive (obsessive?) so no problem there. In the time it takes someone else an hour, it'll take me 3 because I'll be studying the design and shimming/adjusting/etc every step of the way to make it as perfect as I can. hahaWhat software do you use to design parts for your printer? Sorry to sidetrack your lab build thread... you'll need to post a pic of your Ender3 in it to keep it relevant.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 09:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on March 12, 2019, 08:32:59 pmHeh, I'm just glad Dave hasn't kicked me off and told me to go to a DIY woodworker forum!I am working on a few electronics projects but unfortunately the details must remain undisclosed for the foreseeable future.But on the topic of the printer, this is my first 3D printer, and I had no experience with the hardware or software until this thing arrived at my door. It came really well packed, and was pretty easy to put together. The instructions are very vague, but there are great assembly tutorials online like this one:Packing:One thing I gotta point out about the shimming I had to do... when I installed the two upright main rails, they were about 1/8" wider at the top than the base. The assembly video stated very clear to not proceed past this point without theses rails being parallel to one another, and suggested varying the tension of the 2 screws that hold them down to adjust their position...which did not work for me. This is where I ended up using a small paper shim to correct it. Now when I got almost done with the build, one of the last steps is putting the cross piece on the top that secures the two rails that I just spoke of....and sure enough they were shy 1/8" too TIGHT at the top to install the rail....Like if I hadn't put in the paper shims earlier the top would just pop right on! I was pretty bummed and considered going back and taking the shims out...but I decided to force the top on and just go with it. Everything came out square and parallel with itself, which is really the goal I guess.Also, the upright threaded rod that controls the Z axis is important to get straight and centered with the machine. You will know it's right when you don't have to move it much when sliding the extruder stepper motor assembly on the top, it should line up pretty good, and there is a 3d printed fix out there if you want to get that perfect...I got it close enough, but it took some adjusting.Other than that it is very easy to put together and operate. Tinkercad(https://www.tinkercad.com/dashboard) is free CAD software online from Autodesk that generates 3d .stl files, and Cura (https://ultimaker.com/en/products/ultimaker-cura-software) is free slicer software that reads the .stl files, and is needed to adjust the print job settings and generate the .gcode that the printer reads. Lastly, you can generate .stl 3D files from 2D images using free online file conversion software likehttps://https://image.online-convert.com/convert-to-svg/...(Tinkercad allows you to import object files in .stl format, so this is very cool and useful to get custom shapes and designs into the CAD modeler.)One software tweak I would make in Cura while slicing, for all print jobs...adjust the "first layer print speed" to about 20mm/s (about 1/3 the normal speed if default is 60mm sec). And adjust the "first layer travel speed" to about 1/3 the original setting as well. And finally, tell it to print 2 "slow layers" in the next field. This helps with bed adhesion on the stock Ender bed immensely.And the bed temp lies a little bit when you first start the machine. At start up, set the bed to 75 degrees, then after it gets there and maintains it for 5-10 minutes, turn it back down to 60, and start your print. I have found when I don't do this the first print almost always fails to stick unless the print is a small one right in the center of the bed. I assume it takes longer to heat the entire bed up than they advertise...which is a feature, so yeah they lie. After the printer is warmed up, you can print back to back jobs over and over with no issues at all. Another thing is the beds are so-so...mine is not perfectly flat. This can be fixed and compensated with the software(fairly complicated I think), but I found the it's not a big deal for me since the footprint of the items I usually print is fairly small and I can tune the bed to work perfect in the small area I print on, but I imagine it could be a problem printing large items, and a glass bed is the common upgrade in that department. I like mine to be honest, sticks great, easy to remove...I'll be using the stock one for sure.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 10:21:56 pm
content: Great info, thank you. You're gonna make me spend some money...We used to carve blocks of birch in shop class and make little "fingerboards" back in junior high. Then they didn't have the little metal trucks back then, so we carved those out of wood too even though the wheels didn't roll. I remember adding grip tape and painting design on the bottom that "looked cooler" when it was all scratched up from grinding on rails.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:54:34 am
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on March 12, 2019, 10:21:56 pmFingerboarding is super popular with the kids these days, they are sold out in stores most of the time, and quality pro ones are always sold out, they cannot keep up. I can't fingerboard, but think it's pretty cool for kids to get into (i'm 47, lol....a kid inside though). I skated real vert ramps and bowls right up until a few years ago when I took a real bad spill, my last crash as it were...my wife said no more because I almost broke my hip. So these replicas are as close as I can get when I have visions of glory. I'm working on the graphics currently, and water slide decals printed on the ink jet are my plan....waiting on the decal paper from the internet.I am currently looking for a starter CNC machine so I can make my own tiny urethane wheels, even looking at maybe making the trucks, they are two parts and normally cast...and I did casting when i was a kid so I know the basics. So maybe I start making these things completely custom(zero Chinese crap), and selling them.Now I gotta figure out how to integrate micro electronics into them...! I already have a few ideas actually, lol...another post.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2019, 06:29:28 pm
content: So our new Ender 3 Pro arrived. hahaThis is our first foray into 3D printing. I gotta say I'm extremely impressed with this for the price. My family has been watching a lot of youtube videos for tips and tricks. The bed on ours has a slight dip in the center but I took your suggestion on printing the first layer slow and we haven't had a problem yet. I wondered what that "FR 100%" was on the display and found a Youtube video explaining that we can control the print speed by just turning the knob while it's printing. That's been handy to play with if I notice something speed related and want to adjust it while it's printing.We have two hamsters that like to check each other out but will fight, so we designed a couple "T" tubes in Tinkercad to connect their hamster cages together. One T has a screen in it to keep them apart. Attached is a pic of one of them.Do you guys have a Cura profile you've been dialing in you'd wanna share? I've been using Hatchbox blue PLA and the little figurines we printed for my daughters are stunning at 0.16mm layer height, like nearly flawless. We're super impressed. I used 0.24 for the tubes and it still looks good but am having issues with stringing. You can see in the pic attached the stringing in the mesh before I cleaned it up with an Exacto knife. Didn't notice any stringing on parts printed less than 0.2. Still playing with retraction settings. 6mm @ 25mm/sec doesn't seem to be cutting it with a 0.24 layer height.Sorry to sidetrack this thread, I should have probably started a new one.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2019, 09:57:11 pm
content: We should probably start a 3D printing specific thread, but while we're here....Stringing is generally caused and controlled by 1) printhead temperature, and 2) filament retraction. For the former, try backing down the temperature in very small increments, like 3-5C. Too low and you'll find layer adhesion problems, but there's usually a wide range in the middle that will control stringing a bit while still preserving good adhesion.For the latter, retraction means that when the print nozzle is making a big(ish) X/Y move it will pull the filament back some small distance to take the fluid pressure off the liquified filament at the nozzle tip so it doesn't just flow out while the head is moving to the new location. Then it pushes it back and resumes extrusion. You can control the thresholds that trigger retraction, and the amount of filament retraction that occurs. Again, something to tinker with, every printer and ESPECIALLY every filament is different. First step: Make sure retraction is enabled, it might be turned off!Yes, that Ender3 is close to the best bang for buck of anything in the house. It's amazing what <$500 will buy in digital scopes these days, but it'smind-blowingwhat $180 will buy in 3D printers.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 08:50:10 pm
content: On prints where we used .16mm height, stringing wasn't an issue, even the infill was very clean while we watched it print. At .24mm height, it was bad but only at certain points in the print. Since we printed two of the hamster tubes, I noticed bad stringing on both pieces in the center part of the T where the other pipe is at 90deg but then nice and clean before that point and after. I turned on the travel visualization in Cura and can see that the nozzle makes a lot of travels in that middle area, so obviously that was the cause. I definitely have retraction enabled, but on the suggestion in youtube, the recommended retraction setting was 6mm at 25mm/sec. I think I'll try retracting a little more, say 10mm and maybe at a little faster speed, like 35-40mm/sec. I don't have "Z hop when retracted" enabled as I've read multiple times that it can make the print look bad because maybe the Z axis isn't accurate enough to get the nozzle back to the same exact height when working on the same layer. I don't have "retract at layer change" enabled either, but may try turning that on.

author: Tetzly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 08:20:42 pm
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on April 12, 2019, 08:50:10 pmStoked! Yeah the Ender 3 prints like a dream, glad you took the plunge. So yeah, the Feed Rate (F.R.) is cool if you are standing by, and the adhesion looks good (you can tell if it's sticking well by a consistent color on the first layer, if you see lighter spots that means it didn't stick there, but to be honest, I just keep going, have not failed a complete print yet). But on larger prints, if all is going well, you can turn the FR up to like 150-160ish while it's printing the slow layers, save a little bit of time. Just remember to turn it back down before it starts the normal speed if you do! ...As far as the stringing goes, I would try another filament perhaps. I'm using Inland brand and stringing has not been an issue for me...although I don't print that many complex pieces. And maybe try kicking up the nozzle temp to the high end of your filament recommendation to see if it aids in clean retraction(225 for 215-230 degree filament). You can also try re-orientating it in Cura if possible. I printed a few long things that were warping on the bottom when done, so printed them upright, lol...they were like tall buildings but they printed well. Stringing can sometimes be minimized this way as well I imagine.Anyway good luck. I'll try to pop in more often, been so busy. If you start another thread for this, let me know where you went!

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 03:34:48 pm
content: Quote from: Tetzly on April 17, 2019, 08:20:42 pmPossibly, but the general rule is stringing is reduced by LOWER temperatures, not higher. I've personally never seen an instance where raising the temperature reduced stringing.