Tesla-killer EV being developed in UK - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 11:58:01 am
content: Clueless on sooooo many levels.....https://youtu.be/acs2PF5LczE

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 01:37:48 pm
content: Yeah, but why do you link it? It has 92 views, two of which is us, nobody is talking about this, and the guy is obviously working from a shed. Just move on.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 02:24:01 pm
content: If the standard of engineering is up there with quality of his video production he'll have no worries.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 08:08:36 pm
content: QuoteBait and switch. Forty-five mins later I realise I've watched 5 dyno test videos which linked from that (the Ebay special lost 10hp instead of gaining same).

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 08:12:09 pm
content: These guys have more clue

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 02:41:01 pm
content: I mean it's not offensively bad, the guy has certainly spent alot of money on this project of his, but....The problem i see is that he thinks his vehicle is better than a tesla because it has more range for the same cost, without taking into account that for the price of a tesla you also get the comfort, the crash protection, the collision avoidance protection, the parking assistance, the engineering, the etc. etc. etc.But his vehicle is just a honkin' great lead battery on wheels, when you look at the suspension there's dual shocks & springs on each wheel just to keep this thing off the ground. Imagine crashing with this thing, yikes.I watched the video and he's not stupid, perhaps overly ambitious.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 02:50:41 pm
content: Yeah. As I explained to him, F=ma. When M is high then F is high when delta-a is high (like in a crash or slowing down).

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 03:32:56 pm
content: The comments are a goldmine.Also i've changed my opinion, this guy is just forcing himself into delusion.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 03:38:21 pm
content: He's deleted/reported a whole bunch of comments as well.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 04:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 03, 2020, 03:38:21 pmYeah i've noticed he's deleted the Signal Path's comments.Also according to him he's being funded by the African government??

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 04:29:31 pm
content: That’s probably bullshit from him

author: AkiTaiyo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 04:35:00 pm
content: Reminds me of the old electric milk float for some reason. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float)

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 06:41:46 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on November 03, 2020, 04:06:25 pmProbably when he looked up who Shariar was, after calling him an idiot...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 06:46:44 pm
content: Sounds about right. He’d make a good politician. Which is probably a good backup career as you don’t have to be good at anything for that other than accidentally acting as a laundering front for foreigners. He may be qualified on that one.

author: Alti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 07:56:45 pm
content: I like the idea. Maybe it does weigh 3500kg, so what?Not going into the public relations part, the technical part has its merits.The final cost of an EV is the EV purchase price plus the running cost, mainly fuel and maintenance.For a Joe Average it does not make any difference if the EV is cheap and has high energy consumption or the other way around. A customer does not care how much the car weighs. What is important is the ride comfort and safety, and I would not exagerate everyone needs 5s to 100km/h, definitely not me. So instead of relying on high energy density batteries, low mass and lower energy consumption per km, this one is optimized for higher mass, lower density batteries, higher energy consumption per km, higher power. And it does not rely on lithium but on a sustainable 200yo technology.The key point is that the purchase price is lower than competing offers in terms of performance/range.As for safety, as far as I remember, breaking distance does not depend on the mass of the vehicle. It is a friction between a tyre and road that stops the vehicle. There are no rules saying that heavy vehicles are unsafe and light verhicles are safe. I suspec a frontal crash with production version of this thing would have ended up with disappoinment for Tesla S driver.Quote from: mikeselectricstuffSpot on.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 08:00:57 pm
content: If it does weigh 3500kg then you need a C1 license and test here. So Chuck another £500 on top of your license for the training to be able to even take it on the road.Regarding crashes I think you are probably misunderstanding. The Tesla S driver will walk away. The driver of this will be dead and in pieces. Mass isn’t the deciding factor of survival.What we have here is some dark ages battle milk float.Anyway you’ve got to be quite frankly fucking deluded if you think some guy in a shed is going to give an engineering led company which is a good distance ahead of its competitors and has production lines actually spun up a run for its money.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 08:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: Alti on November 03, 2020, 07:56:45 pmNot sure how well a 250kg chassis will hold 3000kg's of batteries in a crash.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 10:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: Alti on November 03, 2020, 07:56:45 pmWrong, stopping distance is directly proportional to vehicle mass and directly proportional to the square of vehicle velocity. There is a maximum force that any given tyre can exert before it skids, tyres do not follow the simple linear coefficient of friction \$\mu\$ that you learned about in junior physics. Shortest braking distance is achieved when you are braking enough to just keep under that break-away force - hence why we have ABS braking systems, to minimise stopping distance while avoiding skidding.Given: \$m\$ is vehicle mass, \$F_{max}\$ = maximum braking force before breakaway, \$v\$ is vehicle initial velocity and \$d\$ is stopping distance \$ F_{max} \times d = \frac{1}{2} mv^2\$.QuoteThe fact that driving licenses come with permitted weight classes in most places would suggest that there are risks associated with heaver vehicles that make them less safe, and therefore necessitate a more qualified driver. In the EU the standard 'car' license stops at agrossvehicle weight of 3500 kg.Edits: Mathjax without preview!

author: Alti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 10:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 03, 2020, 10:17:48 pmThat is very interesting what you say. I must have been busy with sth else during that lesson.Quote from: CerebusNow I understand why people buy heavy SUVs or sub 3500kg trucks. Clearly they risk a lot and cannot afford buying 900kg minis.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 11:05:37 pm
content: Quote from: Alti on November 03, 2020, 10:38:36 pmPeople buy big cars to show off most of the time.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 11:06:28 pm
content: Exactly that.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 08:52:38 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 03, 2020, 10:17:48 pmFunny enough, the older "Class 3" (standard car permit in Germany until about 2 decades or so ago), allows for *much* more. Up to 12 tons, actually (7.5 tons truck, plus trailer).I think the weight classes are more of a "size" thing - the couple of times I drove a 5t and once a 7.5t were really, really scary. Driving is not difficult in itself, but the roads are so narrow, especially in towns, you have to permanently check, if you are still within the road markings and don't bump into anything that's a bit wider than a normal car. It's a good idea to require special training on those nowadays.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 10:45:29 am
content: Yup. I think it's sizeandweight. You lose control of a 2 tonne car on a corner you're gonna demolish someone's garden wall, lose control of 12 tonnes at the same speed and you're going to demolish six times as much, which probably means the house.I too have a grandfathered in C1E licence from the pre 1996 regime. Itwasrather silly letting people have a licence where they passed a test that could be taken in car that could be as little as 1t and physically small and then could immediately in theory go and legally drive a huge 7.5t panel van + 750kg trailer or 3.5t tractor unit + trailer with a GVW of 12t - without even having proved they can driveanythingwith a trailer, let alone anything that big.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 04:14:36 pm
content: He's the king of the Dunning-Kruger hill.Is he really controlling the speed and steering from a tablet?From his website:QuoteQuestion:Can you short pre-IPO?

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 09:28:41 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on November 05, 2020, 04:14:36 pmAs far as i can tell it will be drive-by-wire, steer-by-wire and even brake-by-wire

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 10:13:26 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on November 05, 2020, 04:14:36 pmMore important, can you offer shares for sale to the general public in the UK without being a public limited company, submitting a prospectus to the Financial Services Authority and publishing said prospectus? No, you cannot. Is it a criminal offence to do so? Yes, it is. Is this man a complete and utter plonker? Why, yes he is.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 10:20:57 pm
content: Plonker no. Scamming bastard without an ounce of ethics yes.No different to David Icke or Anthony Steele.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 10:51:26 pm
content: I think David Icke has provided quite enough evidence for an insanity defence.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 10:53:40 pm
content: Yes completely. Total unhinged loon that one.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 04:39:35 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 05, 2020, 10:13:26 pmI didn't even consider that, but then again, I know next to nothing about legal aspects of stock trade in UK. Suffice to say, I managed to refrain from investing my life savings into this venture.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 05:07:33 pm
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on November 06, 2020, 04:39:35 pmI was pretty sure that was the case, but I had to check before I spouted off. I've been a UK company director more than one once so if anyone ought to know the law about it I ought to, even if just for self preservation reasons. If I didn't know that forsurethen it's hardly to your detriment that you didn't immediately think about the implications of UK law.I'm glad you could restrain yourself.Having read the vituperative stream of his comments on You Tube I did consider wasting £1 to buy one solitary share from him so that there would be incontrovertible evidence of his guilt if and when this finally catches up with him. What goes around comes around and all that.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 06:17:50 pm
content: there are much easier ways to con money out of people - I think it's just a case of simple ignorance of the realities of manufacturing something and hopeless delusion.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 06:27:21 pm
content: The sirens on the video at 8:12 are the boys from the funny farm coming to take this guy home.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 06:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 06, 2020, 06:17:50 pmOh, it's pure Dunning-Kruger all the way down. Applied to engineering, company finance and probably continues all the way to the shop cat's vegetarian diet.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 08:38:42 pm
content: Reminds me of an acquaintance of mine who screwed up his accounts, filed a cocked up return, got audited, rejected the settlement offer from HMRC and then represented himself in court

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 10:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 06, 2020, 08:38:42 pmIs he currently being held at Her Majesty's pleasure?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2020, 10:10:13 pm
content: No just a significant 5 digit fine that bankrupted him.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2020, 01:58:12 pm
content: New installment

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2020, 11:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 05, 2020, 10:20:57 pmIf he is a scammer, he has to be about the worst one ever.I really can't imagine anyone with legal capacity putting money into this, he shows about as much knowledge of engineering and physics as a seven year old child.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:08:49 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 22, 2020, 11:58:01 amOh my word, he's special.There's *SO* much wrong it's difficult to know where to beginI found his competiton though:https://cnruipaiying.en.alibaba.com/product/62158205142-812167396/Four_wheel_electric_environmental_protection_car_small_electric_car.html

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:20:55 am
content: That’s a far more viable product than his

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:39:10 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 28, 2020, 11:20:55 amIt's available to buy right now, costs less than a tenth of his battery pack and has a maximum range of 62 miles.If we use his idiotic logic about 'switching on another pack' you could have 620 miles range if you bought ten of them and riveted them all together, it'd cost a shade less than the price of his battery pack alone.The guy's a fool who's going to lose a lot of money, given the way he replies to comments I'm going to enjoy watching him go full Trump as he blusters, starts bullshitting and creating wild conspiracy theories about how big auto conspired to ruin him.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:01:40 pm
content: Standard human failure model apparently

author: RenThraysk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:13:39 pm
content: His talk of swapping the battery tech when lithium "improves", reminded me of another EV that has both lead and lithium options, made in France.https://en.nosmoke.fr/specificationsLithium has double the range, and a less than half of the charge time.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:14:45 pm
content: That looks like it's made in France

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:55:45 pm
content: Quote from: RenThraysk on November 28, 2020, 12:13:39 pmHah, it's a mini Mokehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_Moke

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:58:35 pm
content: Not sure about the "NOSMOKE" name though. Isn't that a bit disingenuous once you take account of the obligatory clouds of Gauloises smoke emitted by the driver?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 01:25:02 pm
content: So his claims of £100 per battery at retail is bunk, they're £127.99, his 'pack' has gone to almost £13K.The warranty from the manufacturer is 1 year, if they could produce a battery at that price that was good enough for a 4 year warranty or even longer, they'd offer it and be shouting it from the rooftops because it's a *big* selling point for Mobility batteries used in scooters, wheelchairs etc.The Tesla Model 3 long range battery pack weighs 480KG and offers very nearly the same range as his fanciful claims for a pack that weighs 100x 26KG, I.E. more than five times as much, all weight which has to be dragged around.I recently saw efficiency figures of ~60-65% efficiency for conversion of stored charge to motion in EVs, that was with vehicles weighing 1200KG, his will weigh three times that.Tesla's stated aim is to reach a price poiint of $100 per KW/H, his pack is way more expensive than that, $141 per KW/H.The Tesla actually looks rather nice in my opinion, his looks, frankly, like something Homer Simpson designed for his lost step brother Herb.His claims about CAN bus are utter BS, he's either lying or somebody saw him coming if he paid £4K for a code reader, this is a basic unit form a quite well respected manufacturer of professional code readers.https://www.amazon.co.uk/LAUNCH-CR-319-Entry-Level-Upgraded-Version/dp/B07P11G7P2If he wants to sell the car anywhere in Europe, the US and a *large* amount of the developed world he's going to need to implement CAN before it will be type approved for road use as it's a mandatory requirement.Frankly, the guy is Walter Mitty, living in a fantasy world where basic principles of physics are different from those in the real world the rest of us inhabit.He's pissing away money on some ridiculous fantasy concept, what I don't know is if he's pissing away his own money or if he's ripping off some credulous third world country's government.He reminds me of the free energy 'researchers' who are convinced they can beat the laws of physics if only they can get another £100K investmentWhat's the betting his design will, at some point, offer an 'innovative solar roof' or wind turbine to make use of the air rushing past the car as you drive along and FFS *nobody* mention batteroo to him

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 01:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 28, 2020, 12:58:35 pmWell the Moke is a British design by Alex Issigonis no less so there's likely to be just as much smoke from the Lucas electrical systemI have to admit I kind of like it and think I might actually want a Moke, not too sure about the NoSMoke but I could be tempted.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 06:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 28, 2020, 01:25:02 pmPretty much nails it in all respects!

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:24:36 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 28, 2020, 11:08:49 amPs: to be fair this doesn't look half bad, i can see some rich guy buying one of these for their kid as a toy.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:38:52 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 28, 2020, 01:25:02 pmYeah i don't get what he has against CAN bus. Accesing CAN bus is as easy as buying a five dollar ELM327 adapter. I even use one of those to clear the eternal CEL in my SAAB (curse you P0171).The only problem is even though CAN bus is standard the data running through it is not and every manufacturer has their own secret sauce.But why would that guy care about what the big boys are doing when he himself has his own proprietary mumbo jumbo data running through the ethernet cable?Also is it just me who watched the video where he ran his EV into his garage wall?I think his main claim is that his EV is more of a bus and is made to carry a bunch of passengers (god forbid), hence why your puny Teslas can't compete against his 3500kgmobile coffinmasterpiece.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:00:45 pm
content: Mobile coffin. I like that description

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 01:14:18 pm
content: Yes and one of the facts he conveniently doesn't mention (although given his apparent level of ignorance perhaps he doesn't know) is that a vehicle of this mass can't be driven on a standard UK driving license (unless you're an old git like me with a pre-1997 pass date).

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 01:22:24 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on November 30, 2020, 01:14:18 pmThe weird thing is that he talks about how this EV is more for the african market but will somehow conquer the UK market.And even if this is an electric bus, Dave already showed in one of his videos that electric buses are a thing already and they're based on already tried and tested platforms.I feel like i'll be running out of popcorn soon

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 03:15:17 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on November 30, 2020, 01:22:24 pmYeah, his confusing presentation style doesn't help in trying to winnow out the wheat from the chaff, or perhaps a more apt metaphor would be "poor signal to noise ratio".Difficult to see how EV can be practical in rural areas of Africa, given the lack of a suitable charging infrastructure. The few hundred watts of solar PV likely to be available at best in many places would necessitate ludicrous recharge times.At least if your ICE vehicle runs out of fuel in the bush, you just need someone to fetch you a jerry can of fuel; hard to see how you'd easily "refuel" an EV.With a solar panel roof at best I'd guess you could get ~200-300W although it's difficult to estimate the size of his roof.His claim of his vehicle eliminating range anxiety because the battery is in 3 separate banks is patently absurd. 120kWh is 120kWh, whether you have it in one 120kWh battery, or three 40kWh ones.His power utilisation claims are bollocks as well. I'd have to watch the video again (not doing that) to detail why it's wrong, but what I do remember is the 700 (brake?) horse power motor, which in kW terms is 520, so full throttle equates to a little over 4C.Now obviously you're not going to give it full beans 100% of the time, but it certainly belies his claim of, iirc, around C/20? in normal use. C/20 would be around 8bhp unless my (admittedly done in my head) arithmetic is way off, which won't move a vehicle weighing probably four and a half tonnes laden very fast.Add in losses due to extremely uneven roads, and it gets so silly that I throw my hands in the air, shake my head, and just forget about the whole thing.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 04:24:17 pm
content: Energy density of fuel is pretty high so yep, makes sense to use it out there in Africa. Only reason it's a problem is we keep nicking it.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 04:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on November 30, 2020, 03:15:17 pmConstant speed versus power doesn't care about mass very much (Newton's first law), it's all about air resistance and a little about rolling resistance (whichiswhere weight comes in). Air resistance is proportional to velocity squared, rolling resistance merely directly proportional to velocity.For similar class of vehicle (I took a Renault Espace as an exemplar) the speed versus power curve looks like this:Assumptions: Frontal area = 3.2 m2, Cd = 0.32, Efficiency = 80%, rolling resistance ignored (but that 80% includes some), 20ºC, level ground.For 8 bhp (~6 kW) you get aconstantspeed of 33 mph. Accelerating 3.5 tonnes to 33 mph is a very different kettle of fish however, requiring nearly 400 kJ

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 05:55:29 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 30, 2020, 04:24:32 pmHe really hasn't grasped the significance of the extra weight, I mean, he's going to make a quite effective load lugger that will potter around a city probably all day but it's not nor will it ever be competition for a Tesla in terms of performance, comfort, value etc.He's basically redesigned the milkfloat and given it coilover suspension.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 05:57:20 pm
content: Quite apart from all the EV stuff, he thinks he can get a sellable car, into production, in Africa, in a year

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 06:25:01 pm
content: And he claims the 'factory is being built', this feels like a *huge* scam, it's making me think ADE651

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 06:51:27 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on November 28, 2020, 10:24:36 pmNot sure why are you mocking these mini-cars - e.g. here in France similar things built using a pipe frame, using motorbike/scooter engines and variator transmission (no gear shifting required except for reverse) are very popular. They are limited by law to 45km/h (6kW engine max, 250kg weight) and you don't need a driving license to drive one. Which is a big deal, given how notoriously difficult (and expensive) it is to pass the exam here (and how easy it is to lose it again if you drive with a lead foot or like a drink ...). It is considered as a 4 wheel scooter with an enclosed body.You can't go on a motorway with it but they are very popular as runabouts in cities where the limited speed is not a problem. Also it is a very accessible way for youngsters to learn to drive before they actually try to get their normal license and a cheap way for pensioners to get around, as well as a cheap way to get a second vehicle in a household.Brands like Aixam, Ligier, Chatenet are quite popular:https://www.aixam.com/en/minauto-rangehttps://www.ligiergroup.com/ligier.htmlhttps://www.automobiles-chatenet.com/accueil.htmlHeck, you can get even a Hummer (and electric one to boot!) in such mini version:https://www.myelectricvehicle.org/mev-hummer-hx/

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 06:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on November 30, 2020, 06:51:27 pmPersonally, I'm not mocking those at all, I think they look like a lot of fun for the money and if I had somewhere to drive one there'd be one on the way to me already, they've got variants which 'pay homage' to (OK, rip off) the styling of all sorts of cars, Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover etc.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 07:05:01 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on November 30, 2020, 06:51:27 pmNot mocking, it just reminded me of a Power Wheels toy car.Quote from: janoc on November 30, 2020, 06:51:27 pmDrunk driving is objectively bad and exceptionally irresponsible, if a person loses their drivers license because of this they completely deserve it.So if it's easy for a drunk driver to lose their license i count that as a win.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 08:24:10 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on November 30, 2020, 07:05:01 pmThe French blood alcohol limit is low, 20mg/100ml for bus, coach, and newly-qualified drivers with less than three years’ experience, and 50mg/100ml for everybody else. A single glass of wine would put you at double the French lower limit. In a country where it's quite normal to have a glass of wine with your lunch or dinner it's very easy to get caught out without being anywhere close to objectively impaired.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 10:57:25 pm
content: My point was not about drunk driving being good or bad (it is bad!) but that a lot of people, especially older ones, like to use these "mini cars" to drive to and from a pub, often after they have lost their license for drinking.Also, the French limit 0.5g/liter of blood is quite generous - e.g. Slovakia and Hungary have a limitzero(after subtracting the tolerance due to the accuracy of the meter and if the test is positive, it is repeated after 10min to eliminate effects of e.g. chewing gum or mouthwash). Worse, it is actually a crime that could land you for up to one year in prison! (even if you don't cause an accident).The 0.5g/liter applies in most EU, the British/Irish 0.8g/l is an exception, by far. It is not about whether you feel impaired - most people with 0.5g/l will feel just fine and yet their reaction times are almost doubled already.The French know that if they drink a glass of vine with their lunch they shouldn't drive at least for two hours. Wine drinking with lunch is not common, though (lunch is often a sandwich or something you bring with you to work ...).Small beer is common on the other hand and you would still be legal to drive. In Slovakia you would likely lose your license if you do it and will have a criminal record to boot.In France if you are above 0.5g/l but below 0.8g/l it is only a "contravention" (misdemeanor) and you will get a fine and possibly have your permit suspended + 6 points on your license. Only above 0.8g/l it is a "délit" (minor crime) where you could get up to two years of prison, have you permit invalidated (suspended permit you can get back after a while, invalidated not), have your car confiscated ... + 6 points on your license*.*French system - you have 12 points (young drivers 6) and if you commit certain severe infractions you lose a number - e.g. speeding usually 3, red light 4, alcohol 6, etc. Once you reach zero you lose your license and it is back to the driving school for you.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 10:51:58 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 30, 2020, 04:24:32 pmAs I said, laden it would likely be more like 4.5 tonnes. The 3.5 tonnes is for an empty vehicle, not a very efficient use. When you see pictures of transport in rural Africa, the vehicles are usually overloaded to the point of failure, in order to extract the maximum possible work out from the minimum possible $ in.Also your graph is for a flat, level road. Here's a (stereotypical admittedly) picture of a rural African road:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 11:05:58 am
content: Yeah that’s not going to work. Light vehicles are important. Also imagine some of the more precarious roads and bridges out there.

author: Alti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 01:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on November 30, 2020, 10:57:25 pmSo for same violation of drunk driving a microcar a citizen that owns a driving license bares same consequences for same violation w.r.t. a citizen that does not own a driving license?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 12:12:21 am
content: Quote from: janoc on November 30, 2020, 06:51:27 pmThey are not cars. They are a continuous nuisance for everyone on the road, and they should be illegal.They are the ultimate epitome of selfishness. A person who is incapable of handing a proper car, or unable to affor one, gets in these abominations, slows down traffic for everyone, doesnt pay the same taxes as the rest of the road users. These things are wreaking havoc on our environment. Their fuel consumption might be lower, but they burn the fuel dirty, and all the other emissions are higher. And they are ugly.Whoever is caught driving them should be publicly humiliated, children should draw on their faces, and throw pies at them.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 12:19:42 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 04, 2020, 12:12:21 amTell me, have you ever considered employment as a London Licensed Taxi Driver? Last time I heard a spiel like that I was in the back of a black cab.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:25:18 am
content: Yep.My tiny little improper 1.0L 3 cylinder Citroen tuk tuk is usually lumped in with that. I don’t have to pay ULEZ, my road tax is £20 a year, does 70+ mpg. Can handle a large car perfectly fine but it’s not an important part of my personality and I don’t need it. Most people don’t need a large car. In fact if you subtract a car from someone and there’s nothing left then they’re usually a twat. Hence the black cab and Range Rover drivers shouting “get a proper car”.Cars are just tools.Edit: we also need to radically rethink society without the damn things at some point. People haven’t worked out that ubiquitous car travel was a temporary luxury due to a surplus of easy to store energy.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 07:07:36 pm
content: Quote from: Alti on December 03, 2020, 01:06:01 pmYes and no. They can still be fined and/or land in prison if the violation is bad enough (the law banning drunk driving applies to everyone, not only licensed drivers) - but they can't lose their driving permit because they don't have any (obviously).

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 07:12:17 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 04, 2020, 12:12:21 amRight. So should be also banned cyclists, scooter riders, people on foot, farmers driving tractors and basically everyone who doesn't move around in a "proper car" for whatever reason, so that someone like you isn't inconvenienced while driving.I wonder how do you know they don't pay the same taxes (there is no road tax in France, fuel is taxed the same regardless whether you put it in a Ligier or Hummer and even the microcars must be insured)?Or that they have higher emissions? FYI, they don't, they have the same emissions like scooters or light quads.E.g.:https://www.ligiergroup.com/news/webzine-voiture-sans-permis/innovation/next-generation-dci-and-progress-engines-benchmark-engines.htmlThat Ligier reaches Crit'Air 1 rating (the French emission vignette that only the latest cars with the least amount of emissions reach). No, these things really don't use old, smoky two stroke engines anymore. Not to mention the electric versions which don't produce any emissions.Seriously, did you even read what you wrote? Andyoucall others selfish?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 07:21:46 pm
content: QuoteWe resolve that by applying any ban if/when they do get one.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 07:28:20 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 05, 2020, 07:12:17 pmObviously it doesn't apply to electric vehicles but he's got a point about emissions from those type of internal combustion engine vehicles, many of them aren't subject to an emissions test so plus there's there's no requirement for a catalytic converter so they pollute considerably more than other fossil fuel vehicles which are subject to far stricter standards.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 07:28:44 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on December 05, 2020, 07:21:46 pmThat is possible in France too - you could be even banned from passing the driving exam (whether first time or again after losing the permit). However, such punishment is usually reserved only to the worst offenders (e.g. you kill someone by impaired driving), not to a dude that had a few beers too many and is driving his Aixam or Bison "voiturette" from the pub home when he gets stopped by the gendarmerie.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 07:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: CJay link=topic=257922.msg3356056#msg3356056 datNot true, at least not here. While they don't need to pass emission testing now (it will likely come from 2022, together with mandatory technical checks) they still must pass homologation testing before being approved for sale. And emissions standards are quite strict.Re catalytic converter - you can't have that with a two stroke engine, it would get destroyed. Which is no different than motorbikes, scooters, etc. which use very much the same engines. And nobody seems to complain about those having high emissions - despite these microcars being legally limited to only small 6kW (~125cc) engines vs. motorbikes and scooters which often have 500cc or more.So that argument is hypocritical at best.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 08:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 05, 2020, 07:39:17 pmI used to sell vehicle emissions analysers, I've been hearing 'Likely' for over 20 years now, I'm hopeful you're correct and the regulations will come into force soon.It's a simple fact, if there's no catalytic converter then the pollutants from said engines are much higher than a vehicle with one, emissions limits can be as high as 4.5% CO for a non catalytic converter vehicle and should be below 0.3% for one with a cat.2 strokes as you say can't be fitted with catalytic converters, so thanks, you've proven the environmental impact of crappy 2 stroke engines is as high as claimed in the reply you tried to debunk and yes, people do complain about them and have been for decades, you've just not been paying attention.https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2005/dec/21/travelandtransport.transportintheukhttps://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms4749https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10834679/Scooters-pollute-more-than-lorries.html