HP Logic Analyzer buyers guide-Sorting the wheat from the chaff. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 07:02:12 pm
content: I've just been reading the post about the Inverse assembler use in various HP Logic Analyzers. Is there some kind of model reference somewhere where the various models can be compared? Which ones is it best to stay clear of because of either not being repairable or because of poor feature sets. Which model would you most recommend to someone who does reverse engineering on old equipment?Thanks.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 09:00:53 pm
content: The main failing of older ones is lack of memory depth.The main failing of cheap modern ones (USB streamers) is lack of width.For looking at old machines, you want enough width to get data, address and control bits captured in state analyser mode. Some chips with multiplexed address and data bits can be used with narrower capture, provided the analyser allows you to acquire the same pins with different clocks.I'd say the usable HP ones start with the 1630. They're big and nopisy but not as bad as the others of their day - Dolch etc. and they have enough width and depth to capture a useful instruction stream. 1650 / 16500 is a nice update but still a bit shallow depth for serial data - in fact, I'd use a cheap USB analyser for that. The 16500 A is floppy only. B adds hard disk (network optional). C adds network. Note that some of the plugin cards will only work in certain combinations - you need the later scope timebase to use with the later acq cards. Also note the analogue capture is only 6 bit. 16500 is a single knob and a touchscreen, the others have proper panels. As a result, it's much nicer to use with a mouse and keyboard.1660 and onwards I'd think of as modern. Lots of other people here won't, and they're right. I don't know much about the later ones.All the above are CRT based. Not sure when LCD started. Also, at some point they started using Windows. Those tend to date faster imho.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 09:45:19 pm
content: From 4 years ago:Quote from: gslick on March 23, 2019, 01:27:00 amThese days a lot of it depends on where you are located, and what is available near you, as the cost of shipping can be significant.My personal favorite of the old school traditional HP / Agilent / Keysight logic analyzers now are the 168xxA / 16901A series.

author: Chernobyl
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 10:42:53 pm
content: One user's data point: I have a 102 channel HP 1661C (with the Ethernet option) which hasn't failed me yet for any testing that I've needed. As others noted above I wouldn't use it for decoding USB or serial bit streams (it's just not intended for that and modern tools are much better). But for 80X86, 6809, Z80, 6502, etc. debugging it is excellent. Honestly, I haven't found the 4K depth (actually 8K if used in half channel mode) to be a limitation at all because of the very comprehensive triggering capabilities (you only capture what you need). I wouldn't want to have to page through that much disassembled code in any case. The network interface is extremely useful though and I wouldn't recommend getting an analyzer without it. I can quickly download the complete capture (and disassembled code) and import it into MS Excel for the quick search/scroll capabilities.My two bits.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 10:07:54 am
content: Great summary, gslick from 4 years ago!Quote from: gslick on February 05, 2023, 09:45:19 pmSomething to be weary of is that most of the logic analyzer boards for the 169xx series take 90 pin pods, which are really expensive on eBay. Older analyzers, from 1650/16500 up to16753A16752A (which does work in 16900) plus the 16910A/16911A, took the much cheaper 40 pin pods.Still, if you want lots of channels than pods are a substantial cost if not included, so be sure to include that in your budget.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 08:40:47 pm
content: Quote from: alm on February 06, 2023, 10:07:54 amI got a reasonably decent deal on the last 16902A that I picked up a couple of months ago. For right around $200 including shipping it included a 102-channel 32M-sample 16910A analyzer module, which still uses the 40-pin pods. The 16910A analyzer modules are my favorite for the 16900 series, especially for the 16901A which only has 2 module slots.(Also included with that 16902A to make it a decent deal were a 16720A pattern generator module, and a 16950A analyzer module, which does use the 90-pin pods).

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 11:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: alm on February 06, 2023, 10:07:54 amOne minor correction is that the 1675x cards are all 40-pin up to the 16752A. The 16753A and up plus 16760A are all 90-pin. I share the same sentiment that the 90-pin cards are going to cost more than the 40-pin to outfit them with the same number acquisition channels.Also, the 167xx cards can be hacked to have maximum memory and other features (as described in another thread). The 169xx cards are software license limited, which to my knowledge, has not been hacked. So you are stuck with the card options dictated by license keys provided.I like the 16700/16702 chassis because they run Unix (HP-UX) and can be remoted via X11 (per window) or VNC (for the whole screen). Unfortunately they are slow machines by almost any modern comparison, but I'm willing to put up with it.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 12:42:05 am
content: Quote from: MarkL on February 06, 2023, 11:31:25 pmHmm, all of my 168xx / 169xx analyzer modules are somehow maximally licensed.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 01:08:36 am
content: Quote from: gslick on February 07, 2023, 12:42:05 amA fortunate happenstance, or did I miss something?

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 09:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on February 07, 2023, 01:08:36 amI'll answer my own question... Yes, I did miss it (brain full).Start here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hpagilent-1675x-logic-analyzer-card-memory-up-hack/msg3575712/#msg3575712

author: rcjoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2023, 07:36:17 am
content: I recently picked up an Agilent 1671G and I'm quite happy with it.Key features:CompactNice bright and crisp LCD displayBoot fast from ROM/flash - no need to boot from floppy or hard diskHas Ethernet, so you can use FTP to transfer files back and forthRS-232 and GPIB for remote control102 channels and 2M samples (option 002), overkill for most use cases150 MHz state analysis speed, more than fast enough for older CPUs and microcontrollers2GB hard drive for storing data, setups, inverse assemblers, etc.Fully controllable from the front panel, but can also use a PS/2 keyboard & mouse (no USB)The user interface can be a little slow sometimes, but not a deal breakerIt seems to be ideal for home use on 8 and 16 bit CPUs.You do have to get used to dealing with 8+3 character filenames again, though.