Chinese solder wire brands? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 11:17:29 pm
content: I'm curious to some Chinese brand (or tried) solder wire that performs well.I know that both defined weight and quality of some solder wire described on Aliexpress and eBay can vary.However, there might be quality solder wire brands in China. Do you know of any? Or have you been able to buy solder that works well?Of course, I know that branded solder purchased from local electronics stores is a much safer bet (and it just works), but there might have been someone who had purchased solder wire from China and is happy with the results.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 01:29:50 am
content: roll the dice

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 01:36:48 am
content: While anything from China is a gamble, I have no complaints about "Best" brand solder, 0.4mm and 2.25% flux. I've used plenty of Chinese solder, and this is the best one I've stumbled across.I bought mine from Taobao, but it's sold on Aliexpress etc as well, but again, as with anything from China, you never know what you're gonna get.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 01:43:55 am
content: Yes, you never know what you're going to get, that's why the question. If someone has used a specific type and it seems to work well, you at least have better odds than picking one randomly. With branded wire, you can go by ingredients and you shouldn't worry about the brand itself. In this case, the best way to choose is by experience.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 03:09:00 am
content: Another member created an entire thread,Quick dirt-cheap ebay solder comparisonthat might be of some interest. Given the results and comments in other threads regarding what solder to get, it just seems both financially foolish and rather aggravating to use the Chinese stuff available on eBay, Aliexpress, DX, ...If you're after something specific or good price - performance in a particular region/market, someone here would be able to point you in the right direction.

author: electronicsdude
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 03:41:51 pm
content: Where can one actually get good solder? Is there a list?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 09:16:37 pm
content: Quote from: electronicsdude on December 05, 2017, 03:41:51 pmPlenty of threads on this.I posted a link for a particular roll of MG Chemicals 63/37 in the code thread (TEquipment carries it). It's good stuff and will make very nice joints. I'd also suggest getting some additional liquid and/or gel flux (the latter is more commonly used for SMD IC's).TEquipment carriesMG Chemicals 835in a hobbyist friendly sized bottle. It's the liquid version of what's in the linked solder wire, and is much less expensive than buying disposable pens. There are numerous inexpensive dispensing methods you can use (dip a small brush in a small container, or refillable versions such as a nail polish bottle w/ brush in cap, brush pen, needle bottle, or a syringe).For flux paste, TEquipment carriesMG Chemicals 8441-10ML no-clean paste.They also carryMG Chemicals 425-NS No-Clean Super Wickif you need desolder wick/braid as well.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:00:23 pm
content: All of these are just horrible. But the 63/40 alloy is kinda funny - it must be some kinda overdrive turbo solder with 103% metal, but still solders like crap. ;-)

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:24:24 pm
content: It's definitely good to know these things.Has anyone experienced the "mechanic" brand? They have Sn42Bi58 as well as leaded 63/37 (possibly other formulations too). It costs a bit more than the cheapest ones.Also, the list of ingredients is more filled out than some Chinese brands (that say e.g. 2% of something, but not what). To be fair, I don't even understand all of the data, mostly the CI(or L) and expansion.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:52:42 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on December 05, 2017, 10:24:24 pmWhen I think of Mechanic brand, I think of solder paste, not wire.FWIW, incomplete content specs like what you describe drives me nuts. This is where sticking with a well known brand is really useful IME, as they actually provide complete information.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 05, 2017, 10:52:42 pmIs the solder paste good? That doesn't have to mean anything about the wire, but could say something about the brand.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 03:20:07 am
content: Quote from: kalel on December 05, 2017, 10:57:10 pmMeh, not so great.When it comes to consumables, stick to known brands and purchase them from distributors. Far less expensive in the long run, and you skip all the aggravation associated with using products that don't perform properly.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 03:24:02 am
content: I would not touch with a 10 feet barge pole anything that involves Chinese chemicals. Guys using it - good luck with your breathing .

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 04:11:30 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on December 05, 2017, 01:36:48 amYou mean "this is the Best one I've stumbled across"?Their slogan should be "Best -- when Goot just isn't Goot enough."

author: electronicsdude
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 02:23:06 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 05, 2017, 09:16:37 pmHey, thanks for the informative reply, I'm probably getting everything you recommended.. What is the difference between the flux paste and the rosin bottle?Also, the solder wire you recommended is 0.025 inch or 0.6mm, is that too thick? Dave recommended wire that is thinner than 0.2 inch. I found this more affordable wick,https://www.tequipment.net/ElencoSW-3.html?OrderItemId=5238804, is this any good? Seems to have good reviews.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 02:48:57 am
content: Quote from: electronicsdude on December 07, 2017, 02:23:06 amIn regard to the fluxes, paste is just that; a paste (think similar to petroleum jelly/petrolatum in terms of viscosity), while the contents in the bottle is a liquid. Personally, I find I use the liquid more frequently than gel/paste flux given past experience with disposable pens and better precision dispensing it (I use a brush pen).Wire size is really up to you; for general purpose, .032", .025", or .020" work very well (personal preference comes into play here as well). Do keep in mind, that if you're doing mostly PTH, the larger diameters will work better as you don't have to feed as much length into the joint, allowing you to make them quicker. The finer you go for the same size & type of joint, you'll have to feed in more wire which can cause you to keep the heat on longer to form a proper joint (dwell time).As you didn't indicate what you'll be doing the most of between PTH and SMD (suspect this will be fluid as you progress), the .025" works best as a general purpose size IME so you don't have to keep multiple sizes on hand (you may find it necessary at some point in the future). Now if you know you'll be doing more SMD than PTH, then I'd suggest going ahead and getting the .020" instead.I've never used the Elenco wick (rebranded), so I can't really comment. But I prefer to buy from companies that actually manufacture their products, hence Chemtronics or other quality brands. MG Chemicals is also an actual manufacturer. You can toss one in the order as well to try, assuming availability is decent for your location.There are some decent solder and wick manufacturers in Taiwan, but I don't know the brands. Genuine Goot is good stuff (Japanese), but is highly counterfeited, so I wouldn't buy it anywhere other than from Japan if there's no distributor for Singapore.

author: Kilo Tango
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 06:57:14 pm
content: MultiCore 60/40Sorry I am slightly biased having used it for for a long while..........As far as lead free, I am having good results with Sn100C, which is tin-copper-nickel + germanium. It flows almost as well as 60/40, but you need an extra 40-60 degrees above 60/40. It has a plastic phase between liquid and solid so is better for bridging things and reinforcing joints like flat blade DC power connectors.Ken

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 07:41:45 pm
content: Quote from: Kilo Tango on December 07, 2017, 06:57:14 pmNot 63/37? Heretic. 60/40 is an unsolderable dumpster fire. Everyone knows that.Meanwhile, back in the real world..

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 10:24:08 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on December 06, 2017, 03:24:02 amEnd of story!If I ever contemplated or 'encouraged' to being THAT cheap, I would rather give away electronics/repair first,rather than risk solder joint integrity, unpaid rework BS, tip wear/reactions, and breathing in nuke/waste dump grade fumesGet the good stuffcheap out on the rest if you must

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 11:03:24 pm
content: I have no doubt that there is great branded stuff out there (that is the benchmark), or that it can produce nice shiny joints, but I'm curious about usable/decent quality solder from China. Some of the bad stuff mentioned here and in the other linked thread is almost unusable, but some usable - while perhaps not great - stuff was mentioned as well.

author: Kilo Tango
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 11:36:50 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 07, 2017, 07:41:45 pmAw come on, what a few % of lead between friends.KenIts the plastic phase that does it

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 08:12:14 am
content: I've yet to try 63/37 so I have no idea how it feels versus some (normal brand) 60/40. This is way out of topic, but is it really easier to use for beginners?

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 08:48:18 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 08, 2017, 08:36:15 amI heard it often recommended to beginners (and to everyone as well) due to those properties. I know that the only real way to tell is to try multiple types and see what works best. I do occasional, very, very basic DIY and small kits, and some mistakes or imperfect joints are allowed and even expected.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 03:18:52 pm
content: Add five kopecks:review (not my) of Chinese "blue Kaina" soldierand comparsion with "shitcheap noname solder from Aliexpress" and "tape of unknown solder". In Russian, but photos are clear without translation.P.S. Warning! Heavy animated GIFs.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 02:55:32 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 08, 2017, 08:36:15 amI have used a lot of both and never noticed a practical difference. Sn60Pb40 is slightly less expensive. I prefer Sn63Pb37 but have never turned down NOS Sn60Pb40 if it was cheap. Sn62Pb36Ag2 is stronger but costs significantly more and actually seems to be more difficult to use.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 04:00:48 am
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on December 08, 2017, 03:18:52 pmIt seems the "KAINA" did pretty good in this test?

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 07:44:26 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on December 09, 2017, 04:00:48 amYes (at least this particular spool). Author mentioned that there is also "orange KAINA", but, according to opinions, it is worse.P.S.Reviewof another cheap Chinese solder (JINHU). TL;DR: For just $1.66, you get whole 15 gram of unknown alloy wire (it began to melt only at 273 °C, despite 63/37 claims, plus dull solder joints).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 08:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on December 10, 2017, 07:44:26 pmThe alloys may be flipped @ 63% Pb + 37% Sn. Cheaper to make as lead is less expensive than tin, and would generate the indicated results (higher melting temp & dull joints). FWIW, this seems to have happened with 60/40 in another thread on Chinese solder brands.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 07:36:00 pm
content: Not Chinese, but any opinions on Billiton solder? Seem to recall using it years ago but can't remember what it was like.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 05:31:47 pm
content: This one seems to have decent comments on eBay (although few and not detailed):https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tin-Le-Solder-Core-Flux-Soldering-Welding-Wire-Spool-Reel-0-8mm-63-37-N3/121930059734QuoteQuoteOf course, I really doubt the quality just based on the price.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 05:33:57 pm
content: I'm sure they're both legit and from people who know how solder is supposed to flow.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 05:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 24, 2017, 05:33:57 pmWith some of these you get many less grams than promised, so much that the price might in some cases equal or exceed some branded wire (at say 100g).In those cases, it's not as cheap as it seems, while still not being good quality.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 10:59:20 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on December 08, 2017, 08:12:14 amIt’s a subtle difference between them, really. But the point is that 63/37 is eutectic, meaning it’s an alloy with a single meltingpoint, as opposed to a non-eutectic alloy whose melting (and thus resolidifying) happens through a temperaturerange. (63/37 melts at 183C, 60/40 melts at 183-188 or 183-190, depending on who you ask.) This range is called the “plastic phase”, meaning malleable. So it means that when cooling off, 60/40 solder has a split second where it’s sort of mushy and can be moved a bit before it hardens. This makes it easier for beginners. But because movement during cooling causes irregularities in the crystal structure of the cooled metal, it produces a weaker “disturbed joint”, which is actually undesirable. 63/37 hardens quicker, so the time window for producing a disturbed joint are lower.I prefer 63/37 myself. But as I said, it’s a very subtle difference, so if one or the other is easier to procure, then that’s fine, and either will produce excellent results provided your technique is halfway decent.

author: Kilo Tango
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 11:16:52 pm
content: 60/40 has advantages when trying to "fillet" a joint. SMD components are tiny and once the solder sets they stay put, however some components take a mechanical load and need support. The plastic phase of 60/40 lets you fillet the joint so it is a lot mechanically stronger.Here is a picture of the power connector from a relatively modern TV, a 29" Cello. As you can see the soldered joint has failed; the lead free solder is like water, and when it sets it is very thin and offers not a lot of mechanical support. I repaired it using 60/40 and got a nice filleted joint. Its been working for the last 2 years without problem. I sometimes turn down the iron temperature to make it more plastic to fill in loose joints.Ken

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 11:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: Kilo Tango on December 24, 2017, 11:16:52 pmI don’t mean to be rude, but this is literally nonsense. As in, it literally doesn’t even make sense.What’s called the “fillet” in soldering is simply the shape of the meniscus caused by the surface tension of the molten solder. It applies equally to both leaded and lead-free solder — they produce identical fillets. If you’re getting radically different results when soldering with one vs the other, then something is radically wrong with your technique.I don’t even know what you mean by “filleting” the joint — the fillet forms automatically from the correct application of solder — too little and you have a dinky, weak joint; too much and you have a convex glob instead of a nice concave fillet. (The component lead and PCB pad geometries of course are also defining factors in the shape and size of the fillet.)Solder is NOT supposed to provide primary mechanical support. Of course, cheap stuff often relies on the strength of solder joints alone, but that’s bad design. (As in the picture you posted.) Especially with lead-free, which is very brittle, proper mechanical support is critical.Quote from: Kilo Tango on December 24, 2017, 11:16:52 pmLike water? What the heck are you talking about? As I said, the size of the joint depends on how much solder was applied.Leaded solder is more flexible than lead-free, so it can handle flexing better without failing.Quote from: Kilo Tango on December 24, 2017, 11:16:52 pmWait a sec — you mean you’re deliberately using a far-too-low temperature so you can glom on mushy-state half-melted solder to a joint?!?I can’t even wrap my head around how bad that is as a technique. Solder joint strength relies on the fully-molten solder actually slightly dissolving the base metal of the component leads and PCB pads, so they fuse into a strong joint.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 03:23:42 am
content: I have never been able to discern a working difference between eutectic Sn63Pb37 and non-eutectic Sn60Pb40 when filleting a seam. Sn60Pb40 is slightly less expensive and works practically as well but I still prefer Sn63Pb37.

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 03:26:34 am
content: got blue kaina, and red kaina -blue melt below 200C, red 230+ C (my solder +200C are min )but but .... seems (again I not sure) a flux not so aggressive as 245 kesterbut in overall if no alternatives blue kaina are good to go ....

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 07:34:09 am
content: anyone has experience with JF brand from china? I need BI57SN42AG1 ones, and they seem to have them, any experience with them?

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 03:39:35 pm
content: Julian Ilett seems to be on a bit of a solder testing tangent lately, he's been ordering different Chinese brands and seeing how well they work (2 different ones so far).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 05:36:59 pm
content: With reputable-brand solder being so cheap, it escapes my why anyone would waste their time with el-cheapo Chinese solder...

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 01:47:19 am
content: Quote from: tooki on April 18, 2019, 05:36:59 pmWhich ones? I checked amazon and the only non-Chinese brands I see are Kester and MG chemicals, which are over 3 times as expensive per gram compared to what you can get decent Japanese branded solder for here. Same thing on "reputable distributors". It's beyond me why none of the distributors (or even amazon) sell any of the Japanese brands, but only the overpriced brands. Really the thread title should be changed to "how to obtain Japanese branded solder outside of China"...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:26:58 am
content: Being unfamiliar with Japanese solder, I can't comment on it.But my point is that name-brand solder isn't expensive in absolute terms. Even at $65-120 for a pound 454g or 500g spool of SAC305 (from Digi-Key, for example), the amount of solder used in a project is so small that the absolute cost is negligible. So I just don't see a reason to risk the cost of ruining a project (or even just of wasting time) by using Chinese solder of unknown quality. There's no question that what one is paying for in a premium-quality solder is for confidence. Kester, Multicore, and MG will not let you down.

author: Corner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2020, 04:29:57 pm
content: Late to the party.I've been using Mechanic brand solder for a while now. It produces comparable results to Multicore 309 60/40 which was what I used before I switched to Mechanic. It's been consistently good. This is the only good Chinese solder brand I know other than Pro'sKit. Tried too many shitty Chinese solder I don't wanna go waste more of my money and time.So if you want good quality (flows well, shiny joint etc) solder from China, Mechanic and Pro'sKit are probably the only brands you wanna look at. I'm happy to be corrected though if you guys find other good ones.

author: Labrat101
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2020, 09:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on December 08, 2017, 03:18:52 pmThis Kaina blue solder is really good has a low melting point 200deg. it flows really well hardens to a nice shine . excellent for de soldering smd's . Low smoke , very clean. and I found it very useful when soldering terminals on batteries and hard to get to places . flows quick and easy .Makes good contact on all surface . also nice for bridging and tinning .I am very happy with this solder I can say its one of the best solder about .its 60/40 and uses CF10 flux .

author: jonsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 01:19:44 pm
content: sorry for reviving old thread.But i´m interested if there are other good chineese solder wire brands.I´ve used this sky-blue / kaina solder. And it´s very easy to work with. It´s low residue flux that does not stain the tip of my metcal, and it does not give off strong odor like kester 245 . thou i´m not 100% sure about the consistency of the alloy composition.Also have only found one flux brand acceptable from aliexpress, Xeredex it´s not full of vaseline . And its not so far-off from my most commonly used fluxes Amtech NC-559-V2 and Topnik Zel in performance.

author: Labrat101
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 02:35:11 pm
content: I recently bought some of that Amtech 559 . The dealer said it was original. But it is fake it's made by Jiyang solder company which do infact make good flux .Amtech flux is not made in any other country only in the USA.But the fake works really well the one I got does. Some Amtech fakes are horrible.Kingbo flux is fair bit greasy but does work ok.For solder I now only use Kaina cf10 2% flux 63/37 .If you have endless money Multicore from the UK is very high quality. But you will have to pay stupid shipping costs.

author: jonsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 09:11:16 pm
content: Well i recently bought 1.5kg´s of kester in various thickness / composition. Had i known this kaina brand beforehand then i wouldn't bought anything from kester.This kaina stuff gives of no smell, because it´s probably super toxic. It does not stain my tips which is extreme problem for me when using high temp tips on Metcal.and does not mess the pcb when sholdering.

author: sam quentin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 05:42:18 pm
content: "I know that branded solder purchased from local electronics stores is a much safer bet"That's a pretty silly statement, given the largely global nature of the economy.Many "branded" solders actually originate from China (more specifically, the Asia Pacific region) - which is growing some 10 times faster than the domestic U.S. market.Many largest "Chinese" solder manufacturers are seeing major investments by "Western" asset management firms.Branding doesn't mean much of anything anymore.Many top brands are simply manufactured by various licensed manufacturing plants, which have increasingly seen sourcing in China.

author: sam quentin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 05:45:09 pm
content: "While anything from China is a gamble"That's a pretty silly statement, given the largely global nature of the economy.Many "branded" solders actually originate from China (more specifically, the Asia Pacific region) - which is growing some 10 times faster than the domestic U.S. market.Many largest "Chinese" solder manufacturers are seeing major investments by "Western" asset management firms.Branding doesn't mean much of anything anymore.Many top brands are simply manufactured by various licensed manufacturing plants, which have increasingly seen sourcing in China.Including "American" autos, "American" appliances, "American" electronics, "American" foods, etc.Effective Marketing is what leads many to continue to believe in the fallacy of "domestic" products.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 06:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 05, 2017, 10:52:42 pmBut is it not the case that well-known brands only produce lead-free solder? I MUCH prefer to use leaded solder - it just works better. Unfortunately I can't buy it from the big players any more.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 06:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 06:45:33 pmFarnell have around a hundred options in stock for leaded solder wire. Filtering for 'well-known brands', if we consider house brands not well known, reduces that to only around 80. They have, quite literally, tonnes of it.QuoteMeanwhile I haven't bothered touching a roll of leaded solder in a while, because there's no upside to using it - when you use appropriate solder and tools.If nobody is producing it (unlikely when it's still required in many applications!), I suggest you stock up from some of those thousands of rolls..

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 07:21:29 pm
content: Quote from: sam quentin on November 03, 2024, 05:42:18 pmTell me who in China makes solder for Kester, and I will buy from that Chinese factory, not from Kester. Tell me who makes solder for other Western brands. Until you tell me that, "While anything from China is a gamble" is spot on and it is Your statement which is silly.BTW if you will continue copy-paste your posts, you may be seen as a bot and banned from the forum. Keep that in mind.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:22:03 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 06:57:16 pmWhen I tried to buy leaded solder from RS they refused to sell it to me as I didn't have a business account. I understand Farnell have the same policy. Presumably it arises from the regulations around leaded solder?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:28:50 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 10:22:03 pmAt least prior to Brexit, the relevant regulation was REACH, which bans the sale of lead products to consumers.From what I hear, US-based vendors (DigiKey, Mouser, and many smaller ones) will happily sell leaded solder to consumers in Europe.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:31:26 pm
content: See the screenshot in my post above. I can't buy leaded solder from any of the European vendors. I'm sure I could buy it from China, who famously couldn't give a toss about EU regulations.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 10:31:26 pmYou appear to have tried.. one.You could also just try getting some decent lead-free..

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:39:09 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 10:31:26 pmYou can't buy leaded solder as a consumer, but you can pure pure lead sheeting from any roofing specialist. Its kinda silly, but rules tend to be. Leaded solder is still used for some applications exempted from RoHS regulations, such as some medical applications. Its still available for compliant customers.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:47:14 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 10:38:36 pmThe same regulations apply to all of them!I hate using lead-free - the iron needs to be stinking hot, it doesn't wet the surfaces as well as leaded, and generally produces poorer joints. If it was any good they wouldn't have needed legislation to ban the leaded, would they? Personally I think it's a stupid law. I don't believe anyone has been harmed by the lead in soldered joints - it's absurd.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 10:47:14 pmBut aren't implemented the same way. You may well be able to convince some of them to sell you some.QuoteOh, another 40C or so, terrible. Good flux wets fine (I have some which will strip the plating off cheap parts), and the joints produced are just fine. I doubt you could tell the difference between my 60/40 and SN100C by eye without side by side joints, and you won't find any difference electrically or mechanically which matters.QuoteYou're proving exactly why change sometimes has to be forced.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 10:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 10:31:26 pmI know the European vendors cannot sell to consumers. That’s why I said to try buying from aUSvendor like DigiKey or Mouser.RS and Farnell are both UK-based.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:01:35 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 10:47:14 pmAlthough I miss the shiny SnPb of yesteryear, I have no problem soldering with SAC305. But again, I'm using a high-quality soldering workstation (Pace) and high-quality, no-clean cored wire from a well-known supplier (Indium). I really don't notice the difference anymore.On the other hand, I think banning lead in electronics wasn't as good for the environment and individuals as if we still used lead. I think it mainly got caught up in the "lead in many things are bad, so let's ban it from everything" crusade that the EU and others were pushing.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:04:00 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 10:51:01 pmDon't be ridiculous. You're reaching, and you know it.Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 10:51:01 pmWhy the snarky attitude? More than that; at least 50C in my experience. Tell me, what temperatures do you set you set your iron to for leaded and lead-free solder? I have to set my Hakko to over 400C to get a good lead-free joint.Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 10:51:01 pmAgain, more snarkiness. What's wrong with you - can you not behave politely? I've no idea what you mean by that comment. I am questioning the need for lead-free solder. That is a totally legitimate position to take. I think the legislators came at the legislation from a position of dogma, not from good scientific evidence. Do your own research - I think you might end up agreeing with me.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:10:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 03, 2024, 10:54:42 pmYes, but why bother when I can buy it from China much cheaper? From what I can see, pretty much all lead-free solder is Sn99.3/Cu0.7. The only difference seems to be in the flux: rosin, or no-clean.In what way do the "known brand" lead-free solders differ? Are the Chinese ones unreliable in their Sn:Cu ratios?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:32:17 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 11:04:00 pmI am suggesting, having some experience with 'professional use only' products, that you may want to try harder before giving up.QuoteI insert the tip and flip the switch. Sorry, I use a Metcal, so I just have one set of general purpose tips which cover all bases. Unless I need a staggering amount of heat (in which case, preheat) or an awkwardly cold tip for very delicate boards, I feel no need to be adjusting it all the time. Yes, that's around 400C - and I'm in and out in just about the same time with leaded or lead-free, with a well formed, shiny fillet either way. I doubt normal mass joints and most surface mount work would be troublesome with a 350C tip, but as I deal with high mass joints on modern PCB materials, I don't keep such tips on hand.QuoteThey forced seatbelts and airbags, too - surely they didn't need to do that? Oh.. nobody wore belts and fitted airbags until the issue was forced. The situation exists and neither of us is in a position to change it. My agreement or lack thereof, neither of which I'm choosing to indicate, is irrelevant.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:34:22 pm
content: Quote from: forrestc on November 03, 2024, 11:01:35 pmYou may want to try some SN100C or similar alloys - in my experience they produce a pleasingly shiny joint.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:43:52 pm
content: If you're in Europe and want cheap but decent solder, get Cynel (produced in Poland).

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 11:34:22 pmOnce you get used to SAC305 it isn't that bad - Although I miss the shininess, the way SAC305 crystalizes as it solidifies makes some types of rework easier as it is easy to tell if it has solidified.Part of the reason why I'm using SAC305 is that I'm using it in production - I.E. not only hand soldering but also reflow and selective soldering. I considered SN100C but there are enough tradeoffs there when you're talking about production that I just decided to stick with SAC305. In particular SN100C is hard to use in the reflow oven for SMT processes. If it was just the selective and hand soldering/rework I'd probably just use SN100C, but since I don't want to mix alloys I've ended up with the SAC305.I'm really intrigued by some of the newer Zinc and/or Bismuth (or something else) alloys but the long-term viability and reliability of them is still up in the air.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 12:15:25 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2024, 11:32:17 pm"What about"-ism.As an aside, I absolutely did wear seatbelts before they were mandatory. I used to prefer the non-inertia reel ones, as they could be made to fit quite tightly. Sorry - way off-topic.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 12:27:47 am
content: (I’ve rearranged the order of your questions so that the answers flow better.)Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 11:10:53 pmQuote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 11:10:53 pmAssuming for the sake of argument that the alloys are exactly what they claim to be, and without impurities, then the differences between brands (and models within brands) are the fluxes, and there are HUGE differences here. For example, Stannol is a huge top-tier solder brand here in Europe, but I don’t like it because I don’t like their fluxes. Compared to brands I prefer, their flux cores seem to be a bit less active, and it “spits” more. With any big name brand solder, you’re at least guaranteed to get what’s on the label. The alloy will be what it claims to be, it’ll be pure, and the flux will be what it claims to be.With no-name (or counterfeit) Chinese stuff, you aren’t even guaranteed that. The variation (even batch to batch) of no-name Chinese solders is huge, based on reviews online. As I’ve said in other threads on this topic: IMHO, solder is the wrong place to try and go cheap, because solder is such a minuscule part of your project cost. To me it makes no sense to risk damaging an expensive part (because of needing to rework a joint because the solder refuses to flow) to save literally fractions of a penny on solder cost. Or worse, what if the flux ends up being corrosive in the long run, causing the project to fail down the line? A large (1lb or 1/2kg) spool of solder will last a hobbyist years and years, so the cost per project is negligible. I have spent a whopping $60 on solder wire in the past decade, and I’m not even close to having used it up!! At this rate it’ll last me another 20 years.I can’t say whether it’s true or not, but some people suspect that the cheapest Chinese solders are made of recovered waste solder from e-waste, meaning huge amounts of impurities and highly unpredictable alloying ratios.Quote from: SteveThackery on November 03, 2024, 11:10:53 pmI thought you wantedleadedsolder? If you are willing to go lead-free, then I highly suggest the Felder SN100Ni+ I recommend here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/lead-solder-wire-with-ag-vs-cu/msg5441408/#msg5441408As for the alloy: no, not all (nor most) lead-free solder is Sn99.3/Cu0.7. Probably the most common (especially if we include solder paste) is SAC305 (SnAgCu, in the ratio of 96.5/3.0/0.5. It is a near-eutectic and has a melting point of 217 or 218°C depending on who you ask, and it has an inherently slightly matte finish when cooled. I don’t find it to flow particularly well.Sn99.3/Cu0.7 is a lot cheaper since it doesn’t contain silver. It is eutectic and has a melting point of 227 or 228°C, again depending on the source. It has a shinier surface than SAC305. Because of the shininess and lower cost, retailers that cater to hobbyists tend to carry it the most.What’s been gaining ground is Sn99.3/Cu0.7 that has the addition of trace amounts of nickel and germanium. Those make it flow better and produce even shinier joints. It goes under many brand names, like K100LD, Sn100Ni+, and more. A good solder of this type — like the inexpensive but excellent Felder I recommend above — is almost as nice to use as good leaded solder, as long as you increase your iron temperature by the necessary 40 degrees C or so.It remains to be seen whether nickel-germanium-doped Sn99.3/Cu0.7 flows well enough to be used in reflow soldering (see forrestc’s reply above), but for hand soldering and the like, it’s becoming popular.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 12:37:20 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 04, 2024, 12:15:25 amNo, an example of changes which had to be forced to occur in a timely fashion. It just doesn't happen to support your position, so is rejected by any means necessary.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 05:57:41 am
content: Quote from: kalel on December 05, 2017, 10:24:24 pmI added some 63/37 Mechanic 0.5mm solder to an Ali order. It solders fine for the few times I've needed leaded. The flux is rosin, but I suspect they skimp on it (like most cheap solder wire) with 2% being the bare minimum. I used it on SMD, TH on some boards from storage that had slight tarnish on the pads, and it worked just fine, so the flux is somewhat activating. Haven't cleaned the boards, but haven't seen any corrosion (yet). Thats a few months.I would not trust their Lead free, and I haven't ever needed funky alloys with low melting temp so I can't comment on those.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 06:20:43 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 04, 2024, 12:37:20 amThere is a difference between the government forcing a change that needed to happen in a timely fashion, and the government forcing a change that has dubious benefit to society, and possibly even is a detriment.Likewise, there is a pretty clear difference between seatbelts and removing lead from solder. All of the statistics on seatbelts show the benefits far outweigh the costs, and there was a lot of resistance to switching to requiring seatbelts, and later airbags, in cars. Heck, in the US, there are still a lot of people who refuse to wear seatbelts because they are convinced that it's more likely to hurt than help in an accident.Elimination of Lead from many products is important. Paint comes to mind. However, when you look at the ecological costs to switch electronics from SnPb to SAC305 (which was the primary alloy at the time), it is not nearly as clear as seatbelts were. Lead in solders don't generally cause health hazards as they don't generally become airborne like sanding lead paint would cause. In addition, the amount of energy and ecological damage to produce and use SAC305 for electronics is likely worse than SnPb. SAC305 tends to also have other challenges that don't exist in leaded electronics - although many of those are now not the problem they used to be as we have learned how to solve them.The point here is that if you take only the transition of solders in electronics from SnPb to SAC305, there is a strong argument to make that this actually made things worse as far as the total damage to the planet and personal health. On the other side, I'd make a strong argument that seatbelts+airbags made things much better. So comparing the two isn't really the same thing at all.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:37:20 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 04, 2024, 12:37:20 amMy point was that some legislation is good, some is bad. It's silly to think that, because some is good, all of it must be. Using seatbelt legislation to support the case for lead-free solder legislation is ridiculous!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 11:40:42 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 04, 2024, 10:37:20 amI wasn't using it to support the case, but to counter your faulty argument that legislation isn't required to effect change.Quote from: forrestc on November 04, 2024, 06:20:43 amAnd there's still a person in this thread who is convinced that it's impossible to use lead-free to make satisfactory solder joints. Whether the change is good or bad is not the point I was making.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 04, 2024, 11:40:42 amI didn't say that! I said they aren't as good as leaded joints."I hate using lead-free - the iron needs to be stinking hot, it doesn't wet the surfaces as well as leaded, and generally produces poorer joints."That is a true account of my experience. I have to say, it isn't an uncommon observation - plenty of people online have made similar complaints. Having said that, I do accept that a different iron and different brand of lead-free solder might well change my opinion. My experience is what I reported, but my heels aren't dug in. If I can get a good result from lead-free, that's great - I won't have to buy Chinese solder any more.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 05:41:13 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on November 04, 2024, 01:46:50 pmWell then, I suggest picking up some samples of SN100C-like solder, Felder comes highly recommended, I find Weller is perfectly acceptable and locally available, and trying them out. You can get a little sample pack for about £8. Apart from needing a little more heat (including a touch more dwell time with more mass), I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I find no reason to reach for leaded solder unless I'm working on a board already using it.