eevBLAB 91 - Why Are Fluke Meters So EXPENSIVE? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 06:28:06 am
content: 8 industry reasons why Fluke meters are so expensive, and why people still buy them.You might be surprised by some of the reasons and have not encountered this thinking before in the industry.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 07:21:42 am
content: I disagree with 0 of the reasons you’ve given

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 08:39:41 am
content: These are all valid points, yet pretty specific ones (army).I would sum it up as: you will never get fired for purchasing Fluke meters.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on December 15, 2021, 08:39:41 amNot just army, the entire defense forces, government, education, and countless big businesses.That total market is so big it makes Fluke still one of the highest volume multimeter makers in the world.

author: M0HZH
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 10:48:19 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on December 15, 2021, 08:39:41 amWorking in the test equipment industry, I can confirm this slogan is heard frequently. I think it started in the 80's and it was about HP, but it suits Fluke very well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 11:36:51 am
content: Quote from: M0HZH on December 15, 2021, 10:48:19 amIt was a famous slogan for IBM - "No one ever got fired for buying IBM." from the 1970's.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 11:47:35 am
content: The labs where I work have a large set of 15~20 year old Fluke portable meters (87-V, 187, 189) that are shared among everyone in multiple labs - calibrated annually. In conversations with the techs, they say they "just work" - zero headaches, zero mechanical breakage, mechanically robust.This is similar to what I used to see in the 1990s in the university labs in Brazil: tons of banged up Analog VOM Sanwas still quite accurate and working well - despite the higher fragility of the movement.Brymen is getting there, but they need time.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 12:19:55 pm
content: About measurement confidence: Yes, it is very important and it can be very costly. Years ago where I worked had these large shunt resistors, that were used together with 34401As to calibrate (and adjust) the product that we were shipping to our customers. We were sending out these shunts to get them calibrated to an external lab. One year, one of the shunts came back as "out of spec". So then we had to trace back which units we used to calibrate with this particular shunts, because all of them needed to be recalibrated. Also, we had to send a technician to Japan to fix a bunch of the units that were there just to make sure they are OK. The worst part is, the drift of the shunt was within the specification of the manufacturer of the resistor, and as far as I could tell, there were no justification why the procedures were like that.So yes. Having cheap test equipment can be very costly.

author: The Doktor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 12:58:39 pm
content: If it's a good reading, it must be a fluke

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 01:06:43 pm
content: In my military service I had to use analog meters because the documentation was for a specific analog multimeter. We had boxes and boxes of new old stock of this meter. It is far from trivial to apply a change.Alexander.

author: cliffyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 01:19:55 pm
content: QuoteSame reason as divorces--they are worth it...

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 01:48:56 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 15, 2021, 11:36:51 amI see it working at the other end, too - “No one ever got divorced for buying Aneng.”

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 03:50:44 pm
content: Aside from trust and reliability, it's also the same reason everyone uses Keysight scopes in professional environments. Any electronics engineer will pick up a Fluke meter or a Keysight scope and just know how it works and how to interpret readings. Put an R&S scope in front of someone or a random multimeter and you need to waste time navigating the UI or checking everything is in the correct mode/port etc.Quote from: Caliaxy on December 15, 2021, 01:48:56 pmYou don't get divorced if you are deceased.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 04:20:13 am
content: Been seeing lots of referencing to each others videos in the nerdier sectors of youtube lately. Just had this video recommended to me.

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 05:15:30 am
content: When I use my 87-V meter I always have confidence that the reading I am getting is accurate. Thats why Fluke is the only meter for me.Another small point. I have never opened a Fluke meter and found a leaking battery in it. I have had Flukes since the 1980s and left Duracell batteries in some 77s for a few years and no leaks. I have other no name brand meters that leaked with the first set of batteries I put in.Has anyone opened a Fluke meter and found a leaking 9V battery?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 05:41:37 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on December 16, 2021, 04:20:13 amAh, didn't know he did a response.He shot this before I did my video, just based on my Youtube comment, so I had more expanded explainations in the video.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 05:49:38 am
content: Yes I saw in the comments that someone mentioned your video to him. He replied to that commenter, mentioning that he had intended to upload earlier in the day, but was late. Just a wild coincidence you both posted fluke related videos so close together. Made for nice back to back viewing

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 08:41:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 16, 2021, 05:41:37 amDave I forget which video I saw of his but he did something similar and totally missed the mark on it. I really liked the video you did and it summed it up perfectly. I was wondering if one of his videos inspired yours.As much as I'm sure Kiss Analog knows his respective field of expertise geez he sprouts some totally incoherent sentences. He needs to spend some time editing out his pointless drivel.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 10:02:42 am
content: Quote from: Shock on December 16, 2021, 08:41:34 amHi latest video jus treleased was based entirely on my response, which at the time was just a comment on an old video of his. I then truned that comment into a video whcih he hadn't seen because we released them about the same time.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 12:54:18 pm
content: Not sure if this has been covered, but one reason I buy well-known makes like Fluke and HP and Myford (in another sphere) is exactly that they're well-known.I pretty well always buy secondhand and if I buy these brands I not only think they have a good choice of being in working condition, I also know that IU will be able to find parts, schematics, or other people who've worked on them. Even if the company is notoriously tight with repair information, I've a good chance of being able to fix it.Thus, I have about 5 flukes, none of which cost me more than about £50, and I was able to repair the only one that came to me faulty.I haven't tried with Brymen - maybe they're even better and provide schematics ? I think Fluke used to but not any more.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 01:26:06 pm
content: Quote from: artag on December 16, 2021, 12:54:18 pmBrymen does not provide schematics, but their meters are quite well built. Also, the support they provide is excellent.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 01:30:22 pm
content: Quote from: artag on December 16, 2021, 12:54:18 pmBrymen do not provide schematics.Some current model Fluke have schematics, some don't. Although some may have been leaked I suspect, like the 17B that has "Proprietary" on it.Would be nice to have a comprehensive thread of meter schematics actually.

author: bigsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 10:21:16 pm
content: Regarding the Fluke lifetime warranty, I can confirm that it means what it says. My 28 II developed a weird fault, I sent it back to them, and in about a week a brand new replacement arrived. I had registered the meter that failed so they were able to check ownership - the story might be different if yours was bought second-hand and registered to someone else. There are very few companies that offer such a good warranty. I agree 100% with everything else that Dave said.This is a bit off-topic, but there is one other thing I have noticed with Fluke. Nothing gets you more instant credibility with a client than pulling out a full-size modern Fluke DMM. Yes, obviously any fool with enough money could buy one, but it seems that it is only competent professionals that make the investment. I've never regretted it myself.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 12:00:45 am
content: Saw this video a few minutes ago and yes, I agree to all the points.I´m working as a testfield-coordinator ( former "only" technician) in a company, which are building high quality power solutions for ship, submarine, aircraft and so on, in military grade and standards.Everything we work with must be external calibrating, fully traceable.Even crimp tools !!!Fluke is the standard for the reasons Dave are telling in his vid, so we got EVERYTHING from fluke what multimeters and enviromental probes concerns.Especially the 87, we got appx 30 pcs from it, all 87V - and one 87 from 1990...In all these years it went through the calibration processes without needing any adjustment.For example, in private I´ve bought a Brymen 859s and give it away for external calibration.It comes back with an ISO protocol and in several ranges it was re-adjusted for reaching the own specs.We´re talking about two weeks after buying it NEW...Fluke is the standard, mic drop.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 06:21:08 am
content: Quote from: Shock on December 16, 2021, 08:41:34 amAbsolutely! I know Dave has acknowledged his own tendency for waffle, but this is something else entirely. I can't remember Dave ever being so hard to follow, even if he might run off on a tangent or mis-speak on occasion. I haven't watched much of Kiss Analog's videos largely due to an unfair prejudice against the way he pronounces "multimeter", but I actually would be interested in hearing more of his stories. He seems like a nice enough person with an interesting background that is taking the time to put out content. It just seems like there is a disconnect at times between where his brain is and the words coming out of his mouth.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 09:26:12 am
content: Perhaps Kiss Analog is just nervous, it's disconcerting though.Daves ok, sure he repeats a bit but he edits and retakes on the fly. Personally I don't go for the high energy type presentation style but I support Dave and the forum by watching, reading and clicking on the adverts etc. Dave might not like my presentation style either, the world doesn't have to be perfect. This Christmas I'll be also drinking Daves share of beer again, I find it a happy medium.Mjlorton was really hard to watch, you can turn his speed up to 1.25 times to digitally fix him hehe. He would be bigger than Dave by now if he kept posting regular videos but the opportunity was squandered. Easy also to lose your audience by changing your content suddenly.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 11:16:58 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on December 18, 2021, 06:21:08 amA mis-speak is guaranteed in every video or your money back!I do like to edit my videos much more now than I use to. And I like to think even if a lot fo it is waffle, I'll edit it to concise waffle and ensure it's useful information (or at least what I consider useful).I often do two pass editing now which tightens up the video a bit further from the main edit. Maybe an extra minute or two off a 30 minute video perhaps, but I think that's worth it.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 11:35:47 am
content: Just delete the circulating fan in the background. It serves as a timestamp to discern where the video has been edited.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 01:14:53 pm
content: Forgot to mention, the high energy presentation style is preferred for audiences with low attention spans i.e. the masses. Dave has likely brought more people into the hobby than anyone else on youtube, and has the most diverse channel content as well.It's hard to be all things to all people and predict the future. You could be ahead of a trend such as Arduino and amass a huge audience but get railroaded if something new/better comes along.As it happens this Fluke video (and few others) bagged Dave a bunch of new youtube subs this month. Got to be happy with 150k views in 3 days. The Veritasium video also did extremely well, half a million views in a few weeks. Got to be happy with that, might even be worth milking it for another video.

author: XantheFIN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 03:14:05 pm
content: Fluke has fluke to show low ohm circuits/shorts as negative ohms in certain situations.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 01:20:27 am
content: I know you're probably messing around. You tend to see that if another current source is flowing in the circuit or the meters input has been damaged. It's almost 1M so not close to low ohms at all.That model does have lead compensation so it might even be possible to give it a 1M offset. Then measuring a short would give you a negative measurement.But hey, when in doubt just "rel" it out right?. Oops no delta/rel feature on that model, bad luck.

author: XantheFIN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 09:17:35 am
content: Quote from: Shock on December 19, 2021, 01:20:27 amI knew things starts throwing around so i took next picture show all is fine on this oldie (not mine actually its workplace) andi know the circuit where shows negative million ohms is indeed short due i was measuring relay's closed contacts*Correction. i did not remember anymore* it did on each and every one i measured which had circuit like it. Or i need complain to Omrom their PLC suck which was in parallel to that external relayBut i give the one theory is closest what happening you mentioned most likely.P.S. In Beeb position Fluke works fine as it does Beeb as should but on Ohms it shows that reading so its confusedUpdate: Ops i was wrong i went check schematics that i was probing A1 terminal and output of logic. Not relay contacts. My bad

author: Milmat1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 04:24:20 pm
content: Very simple example:I am looking for another DMM right now. To compliment my old Fluke 87. I read reviews, watch videos etc etc etc...Out of frustration I will likely end up buying another Fluke. Simply because I know that I basically cannot go wrong. Even though there may be better meters (accurate,Reliable, Durable) on the market that cost 1/2 of the price.But between things like availabilty and mixed reviews I will just buy a Fluke. Besides it having a certain prestidge asigned to it everyone reconizes the meter and can respect it's readings.I thought this video was excellent informative and just a great idea. Another Big Thumbs up for our friend down under.....

author: Milmat1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 04:26:03 pm
content: Negative Resistance !! Dude your gonna be super rich !!

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 04:41:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 amSpeaking as one that has not been in military service but yet have had long history with small to midsize businesses I've finally come to the realization that they (managers / owners) don't care about the cost of equipment all that much. As long as the purchase is justified, and will not create problems, the cost of an instrument is not a big deal. The "not create problems" is a big deal, even a glitch of a day can cause huge budget and timing problems so going the safe route is the sane thing to do. This especially if your industry has the requirement for strict validation work and a procedure for everything including how to take a crap.As an example; when starting out I was working with a field engineer installing a new tool. In the process he specified the type meter required for calibration, one feature being a thermal converter for AC measurements. This narrowed things down a bit and other specs even more. Reluctantly I went to the boss with the requirements and a meter that meant the specs (not a Fluke actually, but not cheap either). I was reluctant because the company was notoriously cheap even while make big bucks, but no problem whatever is needed. I was a bit shocked really.Personally I've stayed with Fluke at most places I've worked due to the great services they provide. Note it didn't matter to me if it was a personally owned meter or one the company would own, when you are making a living with a tool there are other factors beyond price that are important. It is sort of like asking why mechanics buy Snap-On tools, sometimes they are expensive but there are also issues beyond price to consider. Service is a big one.It is interesting too that mechanics often rely upon Snap-On for some of the same reason many of us rely upon Fluke. Things like tools with a long run time, this means if something breaks you are likely to get a relatively exact replacement. Another issue is a refined and familiar interface that keeps adjustment time to a minimal. Now this is not to dismiss that both Fluke and Snap-ON have issues, every company does. The point is they serve markets where the professionals they are dealing with have certain expectations of them.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 05:15:24 pm
content: Quote from: M0HZH on December 15, 2021, 10:48:19 amIt can also be extremely frustrating when you can't buy from HP or Fluke. We are on the look out at work for a decent light intensity meter that doesn't fall apart when you look at it. As such we would easily pay for an offering from one of these companies. A lot of companies in the instrumentation field are not building robust equipment and frankly seem to have an attitude when you suggest that they need to do better. In the case of Fluke or HP, I'm pretty sure a hardware revision would be in the works if the problem was common enough.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 05:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: bigsky on December 16, 2021, 10:21:16 pmThe "gotcha" with the Fluke lifetime warranty is that it isoriginal purchaser only. Nothing wrong with that, it keeps things affordable for Fluke what with so many 2nd hand examples circulating but it has caught some people out

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 05:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on December 19, 2021, 05:15:24 pmTake a look at Gossen. Industry standard for many industries that rely on accurate light measurements, including photographic/cinematographic meters that still work when they've been dragged though jungles and deserts.. They were spun off from Gossen Metrawatt back in 1997 but they've been making light metering equipment since the year dot. Reassuringly expensive.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 05:34:53 pm
content: Quote from: bigsky on December 16, 2021, 10:21:16 pmThe other really important thing is that the cost of a handheld meter from Fluke is trivial for most businesses. If somebody walks into your business with a $10 meter from HF you have to wonder if they have the ability to succeed and have a decent track record. I've worked with so any field engineers / techs over the years that there are certain things that give you confidence in seeing whatever is happening through. A tech with a bunch of dime store ill maintained tools will not inspire confidence. Today laptops can send a similar message. You don't want too cheap of a laptop and certainly not so poorly maintained that it can't boot up half the time.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 06:06:45 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 18, 2021, 11:16:58 amJust too confirm, from the standpoint of a semi regular user of the EEVBlog, I do like the quality of your videos. I don't expect youtubers to be carbon copies of each other and frankly I try to enjoy some variety in what I watch. The semi regular comes from the reality that if I watched all the content I'm interested in I would never get anything done around the house.If anything your content has sort of contributed to my thinking about Youtube in retirement. The problem I have is focus, as the content would be all over the place and I'm not too sure how well that would work. So think of yourself as inspiring, in my case to go a bit deeper into electronics than I have in my work career. So edit away,

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 07:22:43 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on December 19, 2021, 05:34:53 pmAgreed! Any time a business sends a truck to my house with a technician to do a job that will take an hour or more, it always ends up costing me quite a bit more than a Fluke meter, and they do this multiple times per day.A carpenter doesn't buy the cheapest hammer, a lumberjack doesn't buy the cheapest chainsaw, and an electrician shouldn't buy the cheapest meter. The primary tools you depend on every day aren't the place to cut costs, especially when the top brands don't cost so much to begin with.I like that my Fluke 16 (an obsolete discontinued model) can be fed mains electricity while it's set up for resistance mode, and not only will it not blow up, but it will happily switch to low-Z voltage mode and display the measured voltage. It's idiot proof. I like to think I'm smart enough not to accidentally have the meter set in the wrong mode, but I'm sure that, if I were using it for eight hours a day in a variety of situations, I'd eventually do something stupid, and appreciate that the meter would cover for me.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 10:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on December 19, 2021, 04:41:16 pmPrecisely. The Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) is what really matters. No problems = low TCO. Also, the simpler justification given to management w.r.t. the choice of a tool, the better chances of getting it approved. Too many lines on your request and you risk having it delayed or ignored.Of course, this holds true for Fluke as DMMs are relatively simple devices that do not become obsolete as other areas of the T&M market.Case in point: our labs once flooded with Tek scopes are now relegated only to the benches that require very basic uses - otherwise, R&S, LeCroy and Keysights are the norm. I don't have access to one of these and would love to bring my own Rigol there, which runs miles around the poor old TDS3014Bs that we have in the storage but nobody wants them.

author: spackard
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 03:15:41 pm
content: Another reason: If you're really designing in aerospace then almost certainly you won't be the person using the meter.There's a whole crew of (cheaper, more readily available) test and support technicians, who have high-school degrees and heard the company pays well.They aren't EEs, they have no desire to become EEs, they're hired to run (your) test procedures and give it an "approved", or, more likely, stop the test and call over an engineer on how to proceed.You give technicians training (annually); they may or may not pay attention.But, you have to have confidence that the test equipment is doing reliable and repeatable measurements when it's thousands of miles away from your workplace and you aren't the one doing the measurements.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 10:06:06 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on December 19, 2021, 10:58:54 pmIf you are able, sell them off then use the money to buy a few rigol, they go for over $700.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 10:19:29 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on December 20, 2021, 10:06:06 pmI wish... R&R does not allow individual employees to purchase decomissioned/faulty equipment anymore.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 11:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on December 18, 2021, 06:21:08 amIn many of his videos I often skip ahead when he is rambling about something that doesn't particularly interest me, it's ok, maybe it is interesting to somebody else. I certainly have no room to complain about rambling about obscure details that interest me.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 05:38:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 16, 2021, 01:30:22 pmIndeed.As an innocent bystander, it would be interesting to see if we could distil down how much meter protection exists on the PCB vs the actual discrete components.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 05:44:08 am
content: While I think it would certainly be great to have a dedicated thread, I'd also worry that it could quickly become a target for DMCA. Any designated thread for that sort of posting would be best kept in the supporters area.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 05:48:12 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on December 21, 2021, 05:44:08 amOh yeah.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 05:54:15 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 20, 2021, 11:13:30 pmAll Y/T'rs waffle. In Dave's defence, I put it to you that the eevblog channel waffle is where anyone else's channel would contain ads for numblua or some other retarded crap nobody cares about.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 06:52:35 am
content: There are also second tier reasons people buy Fluke (and other "high value" test equipment). For example, hiring: many highly experienced service technicians will not be willing to work with subpar equipment.They have the experience of having used low quality stuff and chasing ghosts - wrong values, phantom readings, etc. and have come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it and makes them look bad.So they won't join a place that skimps on the "tools of the trade". If you want the best technicians (not easy to find in any case) - you want a lab that will pull them in. In some cases, a technician will join a place that builds its own test fixtures as an alternative - but not the ones that will have a room full of "Aneng".Engineers (I think) care less - at least most of the ones I know. In fact, many times they'll see the inadequacies of their measurement tools as yet another way to practice the theory and think up a clever way to do a test. Think of all the Bob Pease Porridge articles and the way they ended up testing their circuitry at the extremes.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 06:59:28 am
content: 259K views on this video, creay!

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 07:57:18 am
content: Must have hit a nerve.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 04:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on December 21, 2021, 07:57:18 amAll those Fluke owners on the defensive...

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 05:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on December 19, 2021, 07:22:43 pmI would love to be with you on this one but this is not what I have seen at least here in Can land. All those guys show up with the bottom of the barrel tools, the best they may carry is Dewalt. As a DYI my tools are better - Hilti, Fein, Milwaukee.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 11:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on December 21, 2021, 06:52:35 amThis is a general thing, when you´re chasing after a fault which doesn´t exist, only in your measure-equipment...Worst case scenario.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2021, 08:12:38 am
content: Quote from: Bud on December 21, 2021, 05:51:54 pmThat might be due to the possibility of theft. When you're bringing tools you own to a jobsite, the expensive ones have a way of sprouting legs and running off.

author: Becbec
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 01, 2022, 08:58:51 am
content: Hi i think you missed the mark here1 all company's and sol-traders can write the cost off against income Tax2 one is investing in one on fortune3 every thing has a cost and then there is the price one pays4 in your vid you make very good points5 yes i am a fluke fan boy6 my main concern is Balance & bios of the vid7 my background is automotive and have followed your channel all most from the beginning and in that time this is the only time you have given me a reason to say hang on a minute mateYours follower Bec

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2022, 10:40:01 am
content: Welcome to the forum, let us know what he got wrong a detailed response. His eight reasons are listed below the video in the show notes. Your 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 responses are framing statements, not arguments against his points.Perhaps if you give good reasons against his points he will do a follow up video.

author: chindi-ap
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 02, 2022, 01:23:34 am
content: Reasonably good battery life...Can't remember the last time I changed the battery sort of thing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2022, 09:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: chindi-ap on January 02, 2022, 01:23:34 amThat's not exclusive to Fluke though. I've got $20 Chinese meters that have never had a battery change and those freebie DT830s go forever.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2022, 11:35:19 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on December 21, 2021, 05:51:54 pmTopic drift alert!In photography I've observed that prudent professionals invest in equipment which they believe will give them a monetary payback in fairly short order. Hobbyists with means are under no such fiscal constraints, and will sometimes purchase items of beauty to satisfy their lust for gear, even when it would make no business sense. So the very best exotic gear may go to the hobbyists, while prudent working professionals generally use stuff that's very good, but not necessarily the very top of the line.Furthermore, there are different kinds of professionals. Photojournalists need something that's rugged, dependable, and fast, but resolution beyond what's needed for a newspaper or computer screen is wasted. Nature photographers selling huge prints of beautiful landscapes in art galleries may want superb resolution, but have less need for speed. Those who work in a portrait studio don't need weather resistance nor a wide range of focal lengths, but may value the ability to instantly beam the pictures to a computer for quick viewing on a large screen and quick completion of a sale.Finally, not all independent professionals make optimal decisions on gear acquisition. The ones who stay in business for a long time at least avoid decisions that would be financially ruinous, though.Trying to steer myself back toward the Fluke meters topic, a handheld multimeter should be an almost trivial investment for any service professional, compared to the cost of a truck, for example. Dave's video was largely talking about laboratories, military/government institutions, or other types of large institutions. Those customers may value consistency, long product lifetime, traceability, etc. more than the lone independent appliance repairman who comes to a house to diagnose and fix a washing machine. But in my experience, most of the appliance repair people are also using a Fluke, perhaps a 100 series, or maybe a T5 or T6 type tester.Anyway, the bigger point is that our own individual requirements and values may or may not line up so closely with the criteria used by those who chose a Fluke.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 12:34:34 am
content: Pre-release:

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 01:22:59 am
content: You know how some people say you can't take it with you?I'm taking my 179 with me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 01:50:13 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 03, 2022, 01:22:59 amImagine archeologists digging you up in 1000 years time...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 02:01:15 am
content: Quote from: AG6QR on January 02, 2022, 11:35:19 pmStill, Fluke is not the only A-brand selling multimeters. Keysight also has a large range.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 02:38:02 am
content: Quote from: Becbec on January 01, 2022, 08:58:51 amAs Shock said, please elaborate on how you think I've "missed the mark"The only thing I can take of value here is "6 my main concern is Balance & bios of the vid". What is wrong with the "balance" exactly? Yet before that you say "4 in your vid you make very good points"1. Tax has nothing really to do with it, you can write a cheap tool off or an expensive tool. They doesn't help explain why Fluke's cost so much.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 02:41:47 am
content: Quote from: AG6QR on January 02, 2022, 11:35:19 pmThat's likely because they used one in their appenticeship, and they have seen others use them etc. Fluke pioneered rugged high quality meters, and that's still paying brand dividends to this day though what's now approaching the third generation of users.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 05:49:24 am
content: Quote from: Becbec on January 01, 2022, 08:58:51 amHuh? An expensive meter still costs them more than cheap meter.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 08:10:48 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 03, 2022, 05:49:24 amIndeed. It is not like companies have unlimited funds as some people seem to think. OTOH buying good tools often means spending less on dealing with problems caused by cheaper tools. Real life example: an engineer at one of my customers once spend half a day trying to figure out why the power supplies in a batch of equipment was out of spec. Turns out he was using a cheap-ass multimeter that reads too high when the battery voltage is getting lowFrom that instance alone buying a Fluke would have been more cost effective.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 09:51:52 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 03, 2022, 08:10:48 pmCan we name and shame these multimeters? I keep seeing tales like this posted here but it's always in a "friend-of-a-friend" way, just like those urban legends.Can anybody give examples or meters that read wrong with low battery but when the battery indicator isn't lit up?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 10:06:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 03, 2022, 09:51:52 pmIt is definitely not an urban legend; I've seen it happen myself! I'll check the type & brand if I don't forget. I'll urge the particular customer to throw the DMMs into the trash and buy good ones.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2022, 11:16:13 pm
content: I knew this on differential probes, when they get "mad" cause the battery is running low...Little hint for fluke 87 owner:They don´t like 9V accus.....Most of the avaible 9V accus have a voltage of 8.4V (7x1.2V).This voltage seems to be hard on the threshold for low bat warning on the fluke 87, after appx 15 mins after turning on, the message appears although the accu was fully charged before.You can get it much faster, when you use the continuity test range with beep signal...It won´t measure wrong, but it will "suddenly" switching off - most of the time, when you really don´t need it...

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 03:47:09 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 03, 2022, 09:51:52 pmI have a cheap Cen Tech meter which gives readings as much as 70% high when the battery voltage is low. However, the battery indicator lights up, so some people might forgive the meter. But if you're not looking for the battery indicator, or don't know what it means, you might believe the voltage displayed by the meter. The battery indicator is just a picture of a battery, without any explicit description that something is wrong with the battery. If you weren't particularly familiar with the meter, you might think the picture of the battery means "meter is working on battery" or "battery is good". This is a bargain basement cheap meter targeted at the kind of people who will never become particularly familiar with any meter.My Flukes, on the other hand, refuse to display an erroneous indication. Instead, when the battery is too low, they just display a low battery indication and don't show any numbers that might be misinterpreted. I strongly prefer this logic. If a meter can sense that the battery voltage is too low, it should never display an incorrect reading, but instead just flash "Lo Batt" or something like that. Or shut down completely.Here's a link to an eBay listing of the kind of meter that misbehaves. I see similar meters with different branding frequently -- I suspect they all share the same internals.https://www.ebay.com/itm/123902191530?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=123902191530&targetid=1262376589336&device=c

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 04:00:33 am
content: Also since the advent of mobile phones people have been inadvertently trained to first think of battery indicators as 'gas gauges' and not immediately think of them as warning symbols.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 04:52:20 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 03, 2022, 09:51:52 pmThat's moving the goalposts. Nobody mentioned low battery indicators and I would interpret a low battery indicator as meaning 'replace the battery soon', not 'I'm going to lie to you'.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 03:07:56 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on January 05, 2022, 04:52:20 amWhatever. It's certainly a subject worthy of further investigation. Firstly to ensure thatnoFluke meter will do it and then to find out which other ones do.Are we talking about some cheap, old, unobtanium meters (there were definitely some dodgy meters on sale 15-20 years ago) or are we talking about meters that people can buy today?Is there any difference between "Aliexpress specials" (ie. Zotek/Aneng) and the no-name meters people might buy in Walmart?This is definitely something that should be done in any serious multimeter review.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 04:54:39 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on January 05, 2022, 04:52:20 amMy general expectation is that a battery indicator comes on to indicate "getting low" and flashes or assumes a distinctly different state to mean "replace batterynow".As has already been pointed out, the only acceptable behaviour for an instrument that can mis-read on low battery is to display only a low battery indicator, lock out the rest of the display and not offer a reading that is potentially invalid.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 02:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 03, 2022, 10:06:18 pmI got round to checking the brand & model of the crappy DMM: 'BK Precision' model 388B

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 03:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 10, 2022, 02:48:22 pmYikes! That's not an ultra-cheapie, especially considering you don't get TRMS or auto-range with it. But it does have hFE!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 06:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:54 pmThat suggestsanothervideo: "Which expensive meters are complete and utter crap?"What's the absoluteworstbang-per-buck ratio on the market?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 06:42:27 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 10, 2022, 06:33:42 pmI'd nominate this beauty.https://www.grainger.com/product/MILWAUKEE-MILWAUKEE-R-2217-20-Series-5MLK1I don't know that it doesn't work well, but compared to this the 'bang for buck' is pretty miserable.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000215450256.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6e4beba3rsUci1&algo_pvid=541b6275-1d0a-4689-b9cc-fd06ed6acf6e&algo_exp_id=541b6275-1d0a-4689-b9cc-fd06ed6acf6e-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000000836519111%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B23.0%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BUSD%3Bsearch-mainSearchAs for expensive 'utter crap' I'd nominate the Keysight handhelds that the displays all went bad on after few years.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 06:44:48 pm
content: Do meters like that help with Fluke's reputation?I mean you pay $180 for a meter thinking it ought to be a good one at that price, find out it's a pile of poo, then that becomes your yardstick?Compared to that meter Flukes will suddenly seem like good value for money ("once bitten, twice shy") and all those $25 Chinese meters must be worthless garbage.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 06:56:13 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on January 10, 2022, 06:42:27 pmIt can be had for much less if you shop around:https://www.plumbersstock.com/milwaukee-2217-20-digital-multimeter.htmlQuote from: bdunham7 on January 10, 2022, 06:42:27 pmAt that price? Snap 'em up while you still can! Seriously.Quote from: bdunham7 on January 10, 2022, 06:42:27 pmThere's a certain schadenfreude in that one. Buy a "fashion" meter based on looks, expect it to last a fashionable amount of time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 11:40:56 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 10, 2022, 06:33:42 pmYou'd have to redefine bang-by-buck, because it usually does not include build quality.A meter could for example be excellent build quality and otherwise very nice, but have almost no features at a high price. That would mean it's crap, simply outstandingly poor bang-per-buck.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 12:34:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 10, 2022, 11:40:56 pmSure, but a stinker is a stinker no matter how you look at it.I was wondering what meter would you mostregretbuying. The meter that would make you cry every time your boss forced you to use it. The more expensive, the better, obviously.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 12:44:48 am
content: The sales blurb for that BK Precision is quite ironic. They specifically claim "bang-per-buck".Even better: You can have it for half price if you buy it with NIST certificate!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 01:01:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 11, 2022, 12:34:36 amBut some people may genuinely value a simple feature high priced well built rugged meter. Remember the title of this thread.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 02:02:01 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 11, 2022, 01:01:19 amRight, so build quality is "bang" for them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 03:01:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 11, 2022, 01:01:19 amIndeed. Bonus points if you can trust the readings! I want a meter which I can trust fully; bells & whistles appear somewhere further down the list with priorities.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 03:49:34 am
content: When I use my meter, it's more often than not in the most dark, terrible places to try and read the screen.What I do like about the Fluke is the high contrast and enormous digits. And it can always take a good photo for evidence. The Fluke LCD is mentioned in the video.My question is, what is in the Fluke screens that the others always seem to lack? Is it tied up with patents?Sure they say the Fluke looks the part when you show up with one and yes I kinda agree. But with my eyes, the screen and the range switch I know I can trust when I've got my arm inside some dirty machine. I don't like any other meter when in that situation all costs considered.I can't understand the point of putting in the effort to design a cheaper meter with better specs and then fall short on the readability.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 08:27:55 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 11, 2022, 03:49:34 amI don't think Fluke has any sort of monopoly on this. I've got $10 meters with much bigger digits and my blackest, highest contrast displays are on $4 DT830Bs.My Brymen BM857 definitely has a better display than my Fluke 187.The Fluke 287 is famously bad on the eyes.I'm told it all mostly comes down to the number of segments in the display and degree of multiplexing. Less multiplexing=more contrast. More segments=more multiplexing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 08:34:41 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 11, 2022, 03:01:50 amThere's no evidence that Fluke has a monopoly there, either.eg. Brymen seem to manage OK in that department.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 10:08:59 am
content: Long term drift may still be a factor with Brymens. You would need data over several models over several years. You could assume Fluke pays more attention to component quality than most as they have longer product life cycles.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 10:19:00 am
content: Quote from: Shock on January 11, 2022, 10:08:59 amWhat probability would you assign to that?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 11:48:33 am
content: Likely. Fluke 87V is 18 years old that is a lot of data.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 12:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on January 05, 2022, 03:47:09 amTransistor tester sockets on a "Cat II 750VAC" meter. Yeah, right. No wonder the meter misbehaves. Sortakinda comes with the quality bracket. And this is not the competition that Fluke needs to bother about, just to be clear.I have 7 Flukes, 8020, 8022, 2x 8060, 10, 123, 28. They don't let you down. Simple as that. I also have 2 off Gossen MetraHit (14 and 25), and ahp973a. They don't let you down either.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 02:25:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 10, 2022, 11:40:56 pmThis defines Fluke - poor feature set per price bracket, but people value robustness, track record, etc. especially their 10x series which has electrical robustness and it seems mechanically sound, although I had some quality problems with two 101s from them.Quote from: Shock on January 11, 2022, 11:48:33 amAlthough not as popular, my BM857 is 2003-manufactured (bought NOS in 2013) and is still spot on after 8 years in service (and stored in unknown conditions prior to that).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 02:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on January 11, 2022, 11:48:33 am"Likely"?I'm not an expert but Brymens have been around a while, too, and the components inside Brymens are pretty much the same components as inside Flukes.If Brymens were going out of spec then people would have noticed by now.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 02:42:45 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 11, 2022, 02:25:03 pmI love my BM857...I'll let you all know if it ever differs from my Fluke 187 by more than a digit or so. Right now they both measure exactly the same.(both are 50,000 counts)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2022, 11:23:24 pm
content: Did you ever give away your brymen for external calibration ?I did, few weeks ago after buying.They (Cal-Lab) must do some adjustments for reaching the specs although the meter was new.At work, we got some real old fluke 87, one of them is a Fluke 87 model ONE.It is in the calibration circle for decades and musn´t adjusted until now.Always in it´s specs.That separate the boys from the men.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2022, 12:10:10 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 11, 2022, 02:31:49 pmWe already have one out of spec and it's been a day!Joking, but it all depends where Brymen gets it's parts from.I like the Brymen 869s. Not sure about the others though. I'll stick with "likely" for now and if proven wrong will be good for Fluke to have competition and make the Fluke 189II and 189 MAX.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2022, 06:26:48 am
content: Quote from: Shock on January 13, 2022, 12:10:10 amFor those interested, as a large Brymen seller, there is certainly a not insignificant failure/return rate with them. I should have kept proper numbers on this, but I'd estimate a 0.1 to 0.2% failure rate. None of them have ever been reported as drifting or beign slightly out of cal, it's always some other failure mode. IIRC about three main chip failures.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2022, 07:45:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 13, 2022, 06:26:48 amThis is where a good reseller adds value; they can get some insights into product reliability where numbers matter; turning anecdotes into fact, or debunking them.This is data that the manufacturer might want to keep under wraps or maybe (in the case the product has a hard-to-utilise warranty, meaning it gets scrapped) does not have. The good resellers are transparent about what they learn as well.To get to a guesstimated failure rate describable in tenths of a percent, one typically needs to have sold about 5000 of something, per model. Good on ya!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2022, 12:13:31 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 13, 2022, 06:26:48 amWere they DOA or did they take time to fail?PS: Do you still have the three Brymens you reviewed in video #432 ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2022, 03:37:43 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 13, 2022, 12:13:31 pmMost took time to fail, although there have been a couple of DOA or Dodgy On Arrival.Should still have those meters somewhere.

author: GuidoK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2022, 09:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 12, 2022, 11:23:24 pmI have my bm869s calibrated annually.It always meets its specs, but even then, its a choice whether or not you also have it aligned.Those are 2 different aspects.Which model of yours had to be aligned and by how much on which value?BTW I sometimes also doubt the calibration labs, although they are accredited by the national measuring institute and of course have very nice equipment etc etc.There are times when I put the calibration reports next to eachother, and the first year a lot of values are adjusted upwards for a certain amont, and the next year, those same values are adjusted down with virtually the same amount that they were previously adjusted upwards. But they are small amounts, within the factory accuracy range.Probably next year I'll try welectron. (I'm now using another lab in the netherlands.)First investigate what exactly is the difference between a DAKKS calibration and an ISO17025 calibration....I can imagine that a fluke might be cheaper to calibrate, as every lab can do them (they usually have both calibrators and software from fluke, and with the software some meters can virtually be calibrated automatically), and finding a lab that can do fluke's is certainly easier (however the brymen calibration protocol can be found online and any real lab should know how to use that)However Welectron offers an iso17025 calibration for €58 ex vat. That's pretty cheap.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2022, 10:51:13 pm
content: QuoteI gave my 869s back to welectron where I´ve bought it from, they´d send it away for calibration for a fixed price.On which ranges I must have a look at the calibration report.QuoteSure you have the choice to let the deviation as it is - as a private person.Me, I got no choice as they did it "automatically" - When it´s cost not more, and it didn´t cost no more, my bonus..At work, our external calibration service handle it in another way.They test it and when it "fails", it fails, no re-adjustments will be done.When I buy a new meter, I expect to have it in its own specified ranges, at least for a year or longer.Therefore it was a suprise to me, as the meter came back with the protocol and remarks.I would expect that when buying something from Uni-T, but not from Brymen.QuoteNo need to have a doubt about it...When it´s an accredited lab, theyr calibration references are above the ISO standard vulgo Dakks, which makes sense.QuoteHave fun...The only thing I know is that it´s the worldwide reference standard, accepted from everyone including MIL purposes.

author: GuidoK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2022, 05:37:43 pm
content: So did you already take a look at the calibration report on which ranges your meter failed?tbh I think it's strange that at your workplace they dont realign the meters if they fall out of spec.The realignment procedure is part of the meter's featureset and supported by the manufacturer.That said, I sometimes have my doubt at these procedures, or the capabilities of calibration labs when I see multiple times in a row that the one year the meter gets adjusted a few µV up and the next year it gets adjusted virtually the same amount of µV down again and the year following it gets adjusted up again.And not only with meters, I also have a precision shunt from Isabellenhütte on which I have annually calibrated at 20amps and also there I see fluctuations higher than I expected. But maybe it's just me.I plan to switch calibration labs and see if this trend continues and is normal if I can find a lab that can do both within desired parameters.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2022, 11:15:20 pm
content: Free shipping!

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 06:07:28 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on February 22, 2022, 11:15:20 pmChuck in a few spare fuses and we might have a deal.

author: Scherms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 11:39:04 pm
content: Expensive for some, maybe...I bought an 'as new' but damaged Fluke 88v a while back that had an Eprom Error from GSM phone frequency exposure and it was sold dead 'for parts'...I paid just under $50 US for this 88v and promptly sent it into Fluke Celemetrix in Sydney for the fixed rate $185 AUD repair. What I got back was a new version 11 (GSM proof) main board + calibration (with certificate), new holster, port covers, battery and CDRom. An almost new and complete Fluke 88v for $230 AUD, a saving of $788 AUD... not bad!https://triplepoint.com.au/product/fluke-88v-deluxe-automotive-multimeter-2/PS: Dave's discovery of a new 'free' mod of the ad737 RMS controller chip to force RMS function on this averaging unit makes my 'smart' purchase 88v now possibly as accurate as the 87v" ... chicken dinner"!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1448-convert-a-fluke-77-iv-to-true-rms-for-10-cents/msg3936022/#msg3936022

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 04:44:38 am
content: Quote from: Scherms on March 29, 2022, 11:39:04 pmCrazy cheap!

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 10:29:36 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 16, 2022, 10:51:13 pmThe ISO cal. ist basically a calibration to the standards the lab uses- DAKKS cal. is traceable (with papertrail) to some national standards, therefore it should have a better guaranteed precision and reproduceability between different labs.IMHO only important when doing some very precise work or in fields where customers demand some crazy long papertrail for everything...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 05:13:36 am
content: Quote from: mansaxel on January 11, 2022, 12:20:20 pmThat's pretty much what it comes down to. Fluke meters are cheap! Amortized over the ~12 years or so I've had my Fluke 87-III the cost was peanuts, I use it almost every day. I've dropped it on the floor, knocked it off ladders and accidentally probed 240VAC on the resistance range. It still looks and works like new, I trust it and never feel I have to question what it tells me. That's an absolute bargain in my mind.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 12:42:58 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 03, 2022, 05:13:36 amSo basically you're saying "Don't lend James your multimeter.".

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 01:05:51 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on April 03, 2022, 12:42:58 pmNever let anyone borrow your wife or your tools...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 05:43:30 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on April 03, 2022, 12:42:58 pmI wouldn't ask to borrow someone's expensive meter. It isn't a bench meter though, it's an industrial handheld and it gets used in the field as it was designed to be used. I don't abuse it intentionally but stuff happens.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 06:12:31 am
content: Eddie is back dispelling all my points as "myths".My comment on his video:QuoteSo if they really are "myths" then he's gotta explain why Fluke are still in business.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 06:51:54 am
content: ok .... he got more gear than mebut he is no match for this guyhttps://emperoroftestequipment.weebly.com/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 07:42:44 am
content: Quote from: Simmed on January 27, 2025, 06:51:54 am

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 06:56:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 27, 2025, 06:12:31 amIt's just click-bait, to me. I haven't bothered watching one of his vids for alongtime.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 10:49:04 pm
content: Quote from: Simmed on January 27, 2025, 06:51:54 amThat doesn't have to mean anything, on the contrary.If you don't use most of it, it's just a dust collector or an embarrassing attempt to convey competence through the number of measuring devices in the picture.Likewise, I don't know what the point of telling your CV in the first few minutes of the video is supposed to be.I have been working in the test field of a company that manufactures power supplies for military purposes for 21 years.What does that say about me? Nothing at all.Or only to certain people who know what it means in qualitative and technical terms, so nothing useful for the general public.In the video, he sits in front of a whole bunch of measuring instruments and first of all says that he has worked in the MIL range.That would make me suspicious about the rest of his video.Never mind.Let's stick with the title of this topic: why are Fluke meters so expensive?What is expensive, more expensive than, cheaper than... What is the reference?A multimeter from Aliexpress for €30?You can take a look at Gossen Metrawatt, then you know what is expensive.Sure, Fluke could offer its meters a little cheaper, but why would they?They are THE standard in the industrial sector.For us, as for tens of thousands of other companies in the world, it is not an issue, Fluke is bought.If we were to measure a customer his device with a Brymen or Uni-T Meter during the Factory Acceptance Test, he would be justified in frowning and demanding the approvals for these devices before signing anything.However, Fluke is known to have the approvals.These approvals are not one-time purchases; they have to be periodically confirmed, and that costs money.And that is also reflected in the price, for sure.Fluke is a professional supplier, professionals are not interested in whether a meter could cost €100 more or less.Therefore, topics like these and videos like the linked “Myth Buster” are only for hobbyists.And finally, a word about the “lifetime warranty”.You can only offer something like that if you know that it will rarely be claimed.We have a 30-year-old Fluke 87 here that has passed calibration every year and has never needed to be adjusted.We also had the case where a colleague had put the Fluke meters on a load bank and forgot that they were getting warm on the load bank because it was starting up.The horror was great when they were discovered, all three meters had their LCD display turned black.After some time, however, they were back to normal and at the next calibration date, all three passed without any problems.This is quality that costs.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 10:56:12 pm
content: Yes, sorry to say, Eddie's videos are not so great. Too much rambling, not enough proper review/testing/comparison. He needs to follow a script. Also, the wall of equipment behind him is a bit cringe.Funny that he whips out the Flir DM93 at the beginning of this Fluke video. If he would have done a proper review of the Flir DM93, he'd know they are terrible, and as he admits, his first one was broken out of the box!First one I purchased had major button and accuracy problems and was replaced under warranty. Second had somewhat functional buttons but still terrible accuracy. It JUST met spec (3.9000V reads 3.9017V). When I contacted Flir, they wouldn't help with calibration information and wanted $300 plus shipping both ways for a calibration. I only paid $149.99 for it so declined.I personally have a sizeable stash of Fluke/Keysight/Amprobe/Brymen/Flir/UEi/Uni-T handhelds and I've seen firsthand over and over again that the Flukes are more stable/accurate/trustworthy than the rest. I guess everyone has to have their own journey?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2025, 01:46:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 27, 2025, 06:12:31 amAgreed. If somebody goes on about 'measurement confidence' in terms of accuracy, that person doesn't know what buying test equipment is all about.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2025, 04:54:19 am
content: Omg seriously this is why I don't watch this guy, he is always talking out his arse. It's as if Martin Lorton turned into Bart Simpson, moved to CA and forgot to do some research.