TheGeekGroup lab closing down sale - Last 2 weeks. Lots of cool stuff left  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 05:25:41 am
content: Have a look at the video, lots of cool stuff still there for super cheap surplus prices.The building is being sold, so they have 2 weeks to sell what they can.Location is Grand Rapids, MI

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 05:55:08 am
content: I wouldn't touch any of that stuff with a 10 mile pole...the guy is a grade A creep.https://www.reddit.com/r/grandrapids/comments/ada6sd/the_portion_of_chris_bodens_statement_on_the_geek/

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:02:50 am
content: If it's cool stuff and the price is right who cares if the guy is a creep? So are the leaders of any number of large corporations.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:04:28 am
content: Is there any actual 'factual news' on legal proceedings yet?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/opinions-about-_the-geek-group_-on-youtube/msg2081404/#msg2081404Some of the Redit comments over time should be taken with a bag of salt much as 'some' of it may contain partial truths.Also surprised that he has access to assets and is able to sell them given the scuttlebutt of his actual criminal endeavours causing the initial raids making these potentially Proceeds of Crime.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:04:56 am
content: I'm sure the stuff itself is fine, but I don't think I want to be making cash payments to a guy who has the feds breathing down his neck on a still-sealed search warrant.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 09:32:26 am
content: Wow. Always thought the guy was a dbag. Good luck in slammer.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 10:16:45 am
content: Please keep things on topic.Personal attacks on people are not welcome on this forum.There was nothing in that video that was even remotely offensive or that opened the door to name calling.Quote from: 0culus on March 12, 2019, 06:04:56 amThat makes no sense.Assuming you don't want to be linked to him for some reason, then using cash for payments is exactly the way youwoulddo it.Compared to bank transfer/eftpos etc that would leave an electronic record.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 10:21:43 am
content: Quote from: Psi on March 13, 2019, 10:16:45 amGiven pending criminal charges there is EVERY reason yo would want a paper trail and receipts. If anything sold is part of ongoing actions and debt recovery proceedings by others paying Cash would be dumb and you are likely to do your money and lose the goods.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 10:24:41 am
content: Then just ask for a paper receipt.They have to account for the the company goods to close the 501C anyway.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 12:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on March 13, 2019, 10:16:45 amNot initially, but the guy triggered my BS detector.So I went looking at why they shut down, and it suddenly made sense. I don't wish the man ill, butalsoit is not a personal attack to point out someone who is facing federal charges and has a rather bizarre personal website might not be the type of person everyone wants to do business with. Consider that he might also still be under surveillance, so you give him a wad of cash for some stuff from this lab, suddenly you might end up in the dragnet too. No thanks.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 12:47:28 pm
content: the only real threat here (bar the very paranoid people here) is that if you do buisness with him, and the DOJ decides to seize more assets, you will not be really compensated for your shopping time when you are forced to return the items.Like if you spend 10 hours studying some equipment, buy it from him, then it turns out its hot or something, you will have a harder time retaining that equipment because its easier to prove that you had some knowledge of doing shady business because he is in the news and under investigation.I don't think you will be 'roped' into anything, but the court will just think your kind of a tool if you try to argue that you did not know stuff was hot (and only if it is hot) when he just got raided by 4 alphabet agencies and it was in the major news. If it was a random auction online under something like a eBay pseudonym and you did not have any idea of who chris boden was, then you can argue that you had absolutely no reason to be suspicious of the auction. It's not easy to say he is of good character at the moment. Especially with a guilty confession on video etc.Not saying its not possible to keep but if they decide it is tied to a criminal investigation its gonna be hard to keep this stuff IMO. I think it would actually be EASIER to keep if you knew him IRL and could say he is of good character when you met with him, you liked his organization/teaching, you think he has a kind heart, etc. If you just buy it online after a media frenzy and allegations they think your just opportunistic.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 03:11:43 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on March 13, 2019, 10:16:45 ami think that applies only among forum members here where you encounter directly face to face in a thread or by name in another thread. please dont add anymore R&R you can get banned here just because of few complaints from scumbag members.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 03:17:24 pm
content: QuoteDon't know what the law is over in the US, but here in the UK if something you buy turns out to have been stolen, you have it taken away (and given to the real owner). Your recourse is to sue your seller for your money back.If you paid by credit card, and the cost was over the minimum limit for this stuff, you could hold your bank jointly liable and claim from them. If you paid by PayPal you might stand a chance of getting a refund if the sale had buyer protection. For cash, forget it - even if you do sue him and get awarded the money you then have to collect it. And you'll be at the bottom of the list of entities digging their shovels into his now very limited funds.Note that I am not suggesting anything he is selling is nicked (from his charity or whatever) or even that he is less than completely virtuous. Just commenting on cash sales in the context of a bum deal.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 03:55:19 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 13, 2019, 03:17:24 pmwhat kind of law is that? the rationale behind it is beyond me.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 04:14:32 pm
content: It's logical: you can't sell something you don't own, so the sale was void. It's the buyer's problem, not the victim's.Do you think the original owner should lose his stuff even if his neighbour turns out to have bought it? The obvious problem with that is that your neighbour could get his pal from across town to nick your lawnmower one night and then he can show off mowing his lawn with it right in front of youeven if you throw his mate in jail for it.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 04:30:23 pm
content: It hurts the economy if people get paranoid about buying stuff or making investments. Its like utalitarianismLike if you build a buisness on unknowingly stolen capital. It can hurt alot of people if you have a heavy handed approach towards restitution. Sometimes it might be better to have things keep running then turning into the punisher

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 04:47:18 pm
content: I can't see how it could reasonably work any other way.Suppose you break into my house and physically remove my TV. The TV is still my property, you don't own it just because it's in your possession.Given that you don't own it, it immediately follows that you don't have a TV you can sell. By claiming that you do, you're defrauding whoever gives you money in exchange for it. They cannot own it, because you don't. I still do.As a matter of principle, I think this is the correct way round. Someone is going to find themselves out of pocket, and it's no more 'right' that someone buying a stolen item should get to keep it, than that someone who has has an item stolen should get it back.With that in mind, surely a society in which people do have an incentive to try not to buy stolen goods is preferable to one in which they don't?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 04:48:55 pm
content: Because if you dont have third party unverified sales you have a massive shock to efficency of the economy. Say you bought a bunch of machine tools around a buisness plan that made sense at the prices you paid. You trained machinists, learned the quirks of the machines, hired operators, have continuous flow and contract obligations. Say military contract, you participated in federal employment programs. And repaired and calibrated that shit. And modified it. And sold some stuff or loaned to buisness partners. And you saved up for an expansion to secure a contract (its gonna be running on fumes for a while)?Do you just hit a buisness ? It needs to be done reasonably possibly with court mediated repirations.If your economy is bad you can get surpassed by others. Free markets are almost always more efficient.Otherwise millions of dollars of work, upkeep maintenece etc just get DESTROYED because people have no confidence in 3rd party resale. S

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 04:59:13 pm
content: Conversely you can incur the same economic losees by discouraging 1000000 microtransactions and having a bunch of good shit go to a dumpIts like a bank note. It works because people feel confident about protection and risk

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 05:06:11 pm
content: Nobody here is "paranoid". We don't have "no confidence", and nothing gets dumped just because nobody will buy it in case it's stolen.The law here tends to protect the victim of the original theft, rather than the victim of any subsequent fraud. We're no less "free" because of it.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 05:50:02 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 13, 2019, 05:06:11 pmI think the main objective is to "encourage" a buyer to make sure something they buy isn't stolen, you don't want itto be risk free to buy stolen stuff

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:56:30 pm
content: QuoteYou have a path to restitution: you sue the seller for your costs, as you would in any other transaction that went wrong for any of a number of reasons. There is nothing special about being sold non-existent goods (other than it being a dodgy sale) in that respect.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 07:42:57 pm
content: thats gonna be slow as fuck, you kinda need legal protection when your big. you can be losing lots of money every daylots of people can get effected quickly.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 07:55:01 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 13, 2019, 03:55:19 pmIt seems obvious to me, the item still belongs to the original owner, why shouldn't they get it back?I would not advocate punishing someone who unknowingly bought stolen goods, but there are cases where it is assumed someone does know. For example if someone offers to sell you a 2 week old $1500 laptop for $200 there's substantial reason to assume it is stolen and a person can be charged with purchasing stolen goods.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 11:29:21 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 13, 2019, 07:55:01 pmyes the original owner should get the stolen item back, but that left the buyer out of money or the hassle to go to court, in case the theft lied about the item, he can say it belongs to him all this long time and sell at half the price like other normal 2nd hand item. if anybody can enforce the buyer to return back the item to original owner, they should also be able to enforce the theft to return the money back to the buyer. if not, they are washing their hand clean (after the original owner got his item) easy job, but leaving the innocent buyer in trouble.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 11:36:52 pm
content: QuoteIndeed. The buyer has been scammed by the seller, just as in any other dodgy deal. And the solution is the same as for any other dodgy deal.QuoteIndeed, and that's what happens. Prove the seller scammed you and you can enforce getting the money back.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 12:13:42 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 13, 2019, 11:36:52 pmQuote from: dunkemhigh on March 13, 2019, 03:17:24 pmand whats with this? i dont think any bank will joint venture in buying stolen stuffs intentionally. or i think you phrased the law in your own way of exaggeration?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 12:29:41 am
content: And to think All I did was put up a warning to prospective buyersThis is not so much a case of buying stolen goods but potentially buying goods with some sort of financial lean over them from the pending criminal case or part of other potential cases to obtain money legally for other monies outstanding by the Business/Organisation. Calling for Cash only looks like money being stripped from business assets to avoid losing that as the business is wound up and if as is likely insolvent who will be the beneficiary of that Cash?Peoplesdetectors should be going off or at minimum make sure your ass is covered if buying.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 01:09:38 am
content: QuoteFirst link I happened to find. There are plenty of others:https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-claim-on-my-credit-card-when-something-goes-wrongQuoteFeel free to check out how the law works around here yourself. I'd give you a link but there would be alot.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 04:44:45 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 13, 2019, 11:29:21 pmThat's how it works, at least in theory. Sometimes getting the money back from the original thief is easier said than done, for example if they have already spent the money on drugs or whatever and have no assets to seize. Moral of the story is be very careful not to buy stolen goods because even under the best of circumstances innocent people will be out considerable convenience and possibly the money.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 11:28:14 am
content: Quote from: james_s on March 14, 2019, 04:44:45 amhmm there should be workaround for that. it seems nowadays with lack of law diligence, evil must be fought with another evil...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 05:59:13 am
content: What kind of workaround do you propose? If person B steals something from person A, and sells that item to person C, then persons A and C are innocent, but person A has lost something they paid for, and person C has paid for something that didn't belong to the one who sold it. Person B is responsible for reimbursing any losses, but if they've already spent the money they may not have anything to pay.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 08:43:21 am
content: That place isenormous!I never really quite got what this group really was, some kind of hacker/maker space type thing?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 08:47:37 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 13, 2019, 10:21:43 amLOLThat's going to be hard when anonymous people walk in with cash, and walk out with the items never to be seen again.What are they going to do, ask for ID and keep written record of who bought what.And can we please stop with the talk about stolen goods, there is zero evidence anything for sale here is stolen.

author: WackyGerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 09:19:49 am
content: Lots of stuff there . Better to sell the stuff for a few bucks than paying for disposal . But who needs a 50 KV tranformer ? Building a mouse trap perhaps

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 09:31:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 16, 2019, 08:43:21 amPerhaps you should look at some of what they may still have for sale including their machine shop and CNC routers so it may not be just a few $. Even second hand some of the gear will run toward 5 figures.Surprised you think advising caution is a LOL thing. I have not used the word stolen (much as your statement is likely directed to others while quoting me) at all, I just called into question who may have a lean over some of the items.Or do you think advising caution is wrong or just a thing to joke about ?This sort of thing goes on all the time in a wide range of industries and given what is actually known for a fact the entity is near broke and the muppet in charge is facing legal charges and bills.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:05:09 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 16, 2019, 09:31:25 amMy comment was not directed at you.Half this thread somehow got to be about stolen goods and there is zero evidence I am aware of that anything is stolen so I'm requesting people stop talking about that.A well known maker space has announced closure and one of the directors(?) has publicly advertised everything is for sale, and this is a Buy/Sell section, the end.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 01:14:21 pm
content: The problem is the equipment may not be his to sell. This does not mean stolen. For example a fancy CNC machine may have a loan or hire purchase agreement on it. For an expensive bit the owners will come looking for it once the payments stop. The owner may well be the manufacturer. All can be fine for years until they are contacted for a spare part and the serial number is provided.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 01:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on March 16, 2019, 01:14:21 pmNot the concern of the anonymous buyer who paid in cash and is untraceable, even if that turned out to be the case years down the line.This liquidation has been well advertised since January, and there would be no reason for buyers to assume they don't own the goods, most of it looks quite old and well used.It's easy to speculate about the remote possibility of such things, but in reality the odds are borderline zero that's the case.By people stating and speculating "The problem is the equipment may not be his to sell" almost equates this to an almost even money bet, 50/50, "we can't be sure", when that is not even remotely the case.Countless companies do liquidations like this when they shut down, and it could be the case with any bit of gear you buy on ebay or at a liquidation auction house etc, or indeed every single item listed on this website for sale.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 03:59:31 pm
content: If the saga on this forum of Keysight tracking down a bunch of used HP equipment from a particular ebay seller is any indication, I wouldn't necessarily want to take that bet.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-ip-intimidation/

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 04:57:30 pm
content: QuoteJust shorthand. If the stuff has a lien on it it's effectively stolen if sold and it saves confusing people with legalisms.And please notice the 'if'. It's more an intellectual exercise than accusation. The passing on of knowledge about how something you bought may not actually be yours is surely useful, not to say interesting, info? Sure, it's probably not applicable to this sale but that's the way threads drift on forums, you know

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 05:06:48 pm
content: Quote from: 0culus on March 16, 2019, 03:59:31 pmHow often does that happen? As Dave said, the chances are practically nil. It's not very likely items will be sold on the sly in such a well publicized case with law enforcement and legal teams crawling all over it.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 05:15:18 pm
content: I might just be paranoid.I've left my 2 cents, so I'll stop replying.It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 01:41:17 pm
content: Quote from: 0culus on March 16, 2019, 03:59:31 pmAbsolutely no comparison with this.One is a commercial transaction fully trackable on ebay or through a commercial test equipment house no doubt paid by trackable credit card or PayPalThe other is a private anonymous transaction paid for by cash on pickup.And even then, Keysight have no legal authority to get that instrument back from you, you can just tell them to bugger off.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 12:51:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 17, 2019, 01:41:17 pmThey wouldn't have the first clue who to contact. Walk in, cash in hand, walk out. Good luck tracking anything. CCTV in the building is prob the only way anyone has a hope of tracking a transaction. Good luck there.Still feds looking into this guy....long as it cash, no ID required fine. Bit more risk than any other legit seller, though a total $hit show if someone really wants to track down specific items.So how anonymous are the cryptos giving this guy has a handful of three letter agency's all up in his business?? Cash is king...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 01:50:50 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on March 18, 2019, 12:51:24 amIt depends on which "cryptos", but many aren't designed with anonymity in mind. Blockchain means there's a built-in ledger of the transactions, which is the opposite of anonymous.