PALCE22V10H - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 07:03:23 pm
content: During a clear-out of old bits, I found four AMD PALCE22V10H-15 chips.I used to program these with AMD's (MS-DOS) PALASM software and a dedicated programmer - connected by RS-232!I have a TL866 II+ programmer which supports various "22V10" devices.Would this work?Is there any design software that would work with these relics?

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 09:14:11 am
content: WinCUPL from Atmel can compile 22V10 JED files, but you will need more exact support for programming.Does the TL866-II list the exact AMD PALCE22V10H?You can still buy ATF22V10xx parts.

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 11:58:10 am
content: I looked into this further and no, XGpro and the TL866ii+ won't work for these chips.The only "22V10" devices it will handle are Atmel or Lattice parts, which are also "obsolete".I see WinCUPL is available from Microchip.I tried installing that as a "PlayOnLinux" (WINE) app, but it doesn't work - like my other PlayOnLinux apps. (When they do "work" there are issues - particularly to do with exchanging data with the Linux host. Not even copy & paste will work!)I found GALasm - a command line assembler, and MiniPro programmer which claims to work with the TL866ii+.These look like the most promising route so far, but I still have no idea if they will support old AMD devices.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 08:23:50 pm
content: QuoteYou can still download PALASM if you wanted to try it. If you can't find it, let me know an I could upload it here. Lattice and TI also had software that supported them.Too bad that the cheap programmer doesn't support the parts you have. I bought one of these when my old programmer was damaged and it's missing some other parts that I still use.

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 09:03:21 pm
content: Thanks for the suggestion / offer re PALASM.Is that the original MS-DOS software?I'm guessing I'd need to install something like DOSbox for that?

author: dorkshoei
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 09:07:35 pm
content: Quote from: Juggle on September 12, 2025, 11:58:10 amOn a different note, is there any tool to convert ABEL to JEDEC? There isan application noteon how to (manually) convert ABEL to CUPL. A cursory scan of github doesn't yield anything.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 05:56:30 am
content: Quote from: Juggle on September 12, 2025, 09:03:21 pmI'm not sure with LINUX but yes I used DOSbox the last time I ran it. I am not aware of them ever releasing a Windows version. It is public domain now.TI offered OPAL for free as well. It also supported the 22V10. It was also a DOS application. I tried it but stayed with PALASM.There was a point where I could no longer run PALASM with NT. I bought CUPL but found it to be too buggy, and I bought Lattice ISP Design Expert. That worked without any issues. There is a copy on ebay. Personally, I would just try PALASM first. You already have experience with it and I know it willhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/356501381713***I just tried it with a 22V10 target with Windows 10 and DOSbox. Seems to work fine still.

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 05:01:12 pm
content: I tried installing on DOSbox.I got the first 3 disk images herehttp://www.pldworld.com/%5Fotherplds/palasm/-engr.uky.edu/_melham01/ee481/software.htmI unzipped them to an "installFiles" folder on my PC.I created a "palasm" folder on my PC.I started DOSbox and mounted "installFiles" folder as drive A: and "palasm" folder as drive C: .Changing directory to A: and running "install" starts the installation, which runs OK until it halts, asking me to insert Disk 2.The only way out from this is to quit the installation.As I say, all the install disk images are unzipped to the "iFiles" folder, so everything the installer needs should be there.Any ideas?

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 07:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: Juggle on September 12, 2025, 11:58:10 amDid you try the command line WinCUPL?All that needs to do is read and write files.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 10:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: Juggle on September 13, 2025, 05:01:12 pmIt's been at least 20 years since I last installed it. I have now way to know exactly what you tried but I would expect you to unzip the three files, then unzip disk 2&3 and copy their contents into where you stored the unzipped disk 1. See attached. I have not tried this but would assume this is what they are expecting.The INSTALL.PAL (ASCII file) in the disk1 shows the directory structure. Assuming it made it through the disk1, you could just manually unzip the other two and copy them into the correct locations.Let me know if you can't figure it out on your own and I will try to do an install using DOSbox.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 11:41:10 pm
content: I just tried it as shown. Mounted A to that install directory structure and C to my DOSbox directory. I had to copy my old command.com file into the root. Installed without any issue. Was then able to run PALASM and compile the default example.My guess, you left the files unzipped was all. Change them as shown and it should work.

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 04:16:28 pm
content: Although the instructions onhttp://www.pldworld.com/_otherplds/palasm/-engr.uky.edu/_melham01/ee481/software.htmsay "only disks 1-3 are needed" and specifying that the OrCAD interface was NOT required, the installer was actually looking for disks 4 &5!Unzipping these to the install folder moved things on...(arggh! how do I post a screenshot image??)> screenshot showed installer "Tuning Extended EXE's ...."<Do you know how to allow an installer to write to the Z: drive on DOSbox?It won't even allow writing ".M92" files there, which the installer expects to place in the same location as [command.com]. I can edit the DOSbox configuration file to add "autoexec" start-up commands, but without access to these files I don't know what to add!As per screenshot, the installer hangs - irredeemably - later in the process: hitting  or clicking  have no effect.DOSbox was running @ ~24% CPU usage, but for over 3 hours?!!The only way forward was to use System Monitor to kill DOSbox.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 06:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: Juggle on September 14, 2025, 04:16:28 pmNot required, assuming YOU don't select it. I am using standard memory with ORCAD and the config files disabled. See attached.QuoteConsidering the age of that installer, it may not support drive letters that high. As I mentioned, I mounted it as C which would have been common.QuoteInstall took a few seconds. There's not much to it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 06:21:54 pm
content: Oh, your trying to use DOSboxes predefined internal drive. Take the time to read the DOSbox manual. This is read only!!

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 07:14:09 pm
content: ah-ha!

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 11:31:01 pm
content: Hallo everyoneI would like to ask whether it is possible to use PALASM software to write the 22V10 file shown in the figure below?The picture below is a reverse engineering of a 22V10 firmware. This is my first time to use CPLD chips like 22v10.Thanks

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 01:30:28 am
content: There was something called jed2eqn? Google finds thishttps://www.elektroda.com/rtvforum/topic627753.html

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 02:59:52 am
content: Quote from: PCB.Wiz on September 15, 2025, 01:30:28 amThat utility was part of the OPAL software I mentioned from TI, however after running it, it appears it was actually provided by National Semiconductor.I tried to run it from DOSbox and it appears to translate my simple 22V10 just fine.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 03:30:47 am
content: Can this software open .jed files?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 01:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: daisizhou on September 15, 2025, 03:30:47 amIt can, but it seems to not understand that particular device. My guess is the MicroChip part is just too new. Doing a quick search for PG4UW universal control program, I get the following:https://www.elnec.com/en/products/software/pg4uw/Is this part you are attempting to reverse engineer out of one of their programmers? If it is one of their obsolete units, I wonder if they would provide you with the code.Does MicroChip offer any development tools that could back it out?***Just an FYI about the TL866a programmer and ATF22V10https://www.reddit.com/r/beneater/comments/1ah4awa/programming_atf22v10c_with_a_tl866a_is_it_possible/

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 10:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 15, 2025, 01:52:51 pmThanksThis is a firmware from inside the 22V10, they will not provide source code.Frankly speaking, it comes from a previous project of mine. I remember that I obtained the firmware through decryption technology.I'm curious about what its source code should look like, so I posted it here to see if anyone knows

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2025, 03:30:00 pm
content: Quote from: daisizhou on September 15, 2025, 10:51:13 pmThere are a lot of different 22V10s. Your file is using a ATF22V10CQZ PLCC28, which I suspect is too new for that old OPAL software is all. I seem to remember using some of the Atmel 24-pin DIP 22V10s back in the day but not the PLCC packages. Looking at the Lattice manuals, they do not appear to support a similar utility to OPAL.They were using stripped versions of LeonardoSpectrum, Synplify and ModelSim. A lot nicer tool set than the old PALASM days.Anyone here ever use PAC-Designer?

author: Juggle
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 06:48:50 pm
content: I downloaded PALASM 4 from here:http://www.pldworld.com/_otherplds/palasm/-engr.uky.edu/_melham01/ee481/software.htmAfter struggling to get DOSbox to recognise the path to the \palasm directory, I gave up.I installed FreeDOS in Qemu and installed PALASM 4 as a FreeDOS app.The install program ran fine, but when I start PALASM, I get:QuoteOK, so I created a \palasmdat directory and copied the setup.pal from \palasm\datPALASM still starts with the same error.The reason for ths is that "palasmdat" exceeds the maximum name length for a DOS directory!FreeDOS has named this "PALASM~1"Any ideas?I am now thinking that this might be a dodgy / hacked copy of PALASM - surely a real DOS program wouldn't use an invalid directory name?

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2025, 11:54:43 am
content: WinCUPL will run under WINE,but it's important to remember it has some decades old bugs that nobody ever fixed.if it builds - it builds, the bugs seem to cause program termination.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2025, 04:17:40 am
content: Quote from: Juggle on September 12, 2025, 11:58:10 amFWIW, I recently managed to install and get WinCUPL v5.30.4 (not the beta WinCUPL II) working in Wine on Linux Mint 21.https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocuments/documents/OTH/ProductDocuments/SoftwareLibraries/Firmware/awincupl.exe.zipIt certainly did not work straight out from the box, there were missing OCX files that crashed WinCUPL immediately upon opening. Fortunately I did find a fix using Winetricks, documented here;https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/18xtq2k/how_do_i_fix_dwsbc32ocx_problem_in_wine/https://mike42.me/blog/2021-08-a-first-look-at-programmable-logicSomething else I just learned, WinCUPL is just a GUI frontend for the DOS based CUPL. So even if your WinCUPL installation fails to work correctly under Wine, you should still be able to use CUPL (installed during the WinCUPL install) under DOSBox or similar.http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7319