Ebay, STM32 dev boards. What's on the CD's? Where to find more info? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 01:57:47 am
content: /.

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 06:13:46 am
content: Hey, I have one with onboard USB-TTL. The CD content as far as I can remember : Keil IDE, Jlink software , example (in keil format),user manual in chinese, STM32 loader demo (tool to download via UART).The STM32 already burned ucos demo.The first link (blue pcb) apparently has 2 version. One with female header on the 2 side instead of male. The other one is in your link. The female header version use a jumper to enter bootloader mode but it is faulty. I have both version. You can also buy bundled with matching 2.4 "LCD.edit : Tell me if you need more info about that board

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 07:35:43 am
content: I'm more experienced with the stripped down version of those boards that also has a USB connector wired direct (no FTDI). There are rumors it can allow the board to function like STlink debugger but that firmware is not open source and nobody has ever demonstrated this. If there is any hint on how to make use of the direct USB connector it would be very interesting.

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 07:52:21 am
content: Quote from: paulie on September 24, 2014, 07:35:43 amthe firmware is not opensource, but some has already able to extract it from STLink update process. If not ,there won't be cheap stlink dongle on ebay and aliexpress.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 08:00:50 am
content: One fellow has a blog claiming to have decoded the encripted ST upgrade file but he never proved this and nobody else has been able to verify. The rumors are that one Russian fellow paid to have the top removed and protection bypassed and is selling chips to the Chinese. Another story has an Israeli doing this. Nothing on bit torrents and no Chinese code package for sale which are the usual channels for pirate software so this is strange. I would like to see any info on using that interface.

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 08:33:13 am
content: try google : diy stlink

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 09:02:33 am
content: The first links where the fellow claimed to decrypt the upgrade file but never demonstrated as I mentioned before. In others chips are unsoldered from a real STlink and used to make the DIY. The Russian had a bin but it didn't work for me or any of the others that tried. The circuit is well known and published in ST docs but If you know of any image that is proven then it would be greatly appreciated if you could attach it here.

author: leppie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 09:09:00 am
content: Why pay $17 when you can get an official Nucleo board for just over $10?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 09:22:32 am
content: You can buy an STM32F4 dev board from Farnell for £10 which has an onboard ST link debugger... it's on a header, you can swap from on board MCU to off board MCU.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 09:26:26 am
content: IMO those $6 Aliexpress/Ebay minimum development boards are a better value but keep in mind those CDs cost 10 cents and the cable is worth at least a half dollar.And as we all know you can build one yourself for less than $2.If there was some hint for using the directly wired USB interface hidden away somewhere on that CD it would be a good deal though.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 09:34:52 am
content: The STlink dongles are available for as little as $4 on Aliexpress and are much more useable than those break-in-half deals. So with the minmum dev boards and considering shipping end up costing about 1/3 as much as Discovery or Nucleo. Of course you can look at it as theres only $12 difference and shipping time may be a factor for those who want it NOW.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 10:19:32 am
content: But you're talking about the $7 STM32f103c8 boards (or cheaper homebrews) + an STLink, while the OP was talking a $17 STM32f103rb board with built-in FTDI serial adapter. I can't see a reason to prefer the eBay RB board over an official ST demo board...The only reason I see not to purchase ALL the <$20 demo boards out there (TI, freescale, ST, NXP, etc) is that eventually you wind up with so many that it makes you a bit scatter-brained :-) Things are SO much better than when the official development boards for a CPU cost $400... (Hmm. The oldest development board I bought for myself was a Motorola 68HC05 board that had a special promotion for "only" $68.05... (something like 4k of EPROM (uv-eraseable!) and 256 bytes of RAM...))

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 10:35:53 am
content: QuoteWhen you can pay more and get less, why pay less and get more?Yeah, those Nucleo boards are nice, particularly those F3/F4 boards - at the same price as the F0/F1 boards! Unbelievable.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 10:47:03 am
content: QuoteI actually think that firmware came from Segger - it is a crippled version of their jlink software tailored to stm chips (on swd).One downside I see with the stlink clones is that they don't have swo. But that would not be a problem if someone could implement rtt/jscope over the clones,

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 11:45:53 am
content: QuoteMind this is RBversion (128kB flash + 20kB of SRAM).I wouldrecommendsomething RE, particularly L152RE, when compared to 103RB:MPUabout half the max speed (32MHz)four times more energy efficientfour times more flashfour times more SRAM16kB eeprommore timers (but no complementary IOs)op-amps + comparatorstouch sensingLCD driverand other goodies..You can also try the Nucleo-F4xx, those are faster and come with DSP+FPU extensions.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 01:30:21 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on September 24, 2014, 12:43:05 pmAside from being smaller and being able to plug directly into a PC without need for a cable the metal casing is a big advantage. I've had two of the break-in-half board type programmer/debuggers fail. The first from an STM8 board shorted out on my benchtop with blue sparks and smoke because the circuits are exposed and the delicate little micro USB on the other failed. So I've become very fond of the "cheap" Chinese clone. More compatible too because one of the above only did SWIM but the clone does SWIM and SDIO, STM32 and STM8.Don't get me wrong, the Nucleo and Discovery mfg dev boards are an excellent way to jump into this and for less than $20 quite a bargain. Both approaches have been tried but for me the cheaper and more generic and modular approach of the clones worked out better.As far as choice of chip as mentioned in the one dollar thread 103c has proven to be the most popular ARM worldwide. I also recently started with STM8 because it came up a close second in popularity when browsing sites like Taobao, Aliexpress, and Ebay. None of the other ARMs were even in the running in that respect. The STM8 is a crippled P.O.S. but it's the lowest cost P.O.S. yet still quite comparable to PIC and AVR at a fraction the price (21 cents shipped, hobby qty). There are some drawbacks however so maybe not best intro chip. Everybody will push their own favorite and 103c is mine based on popularity, support, and cost/feature/performance ratios.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 02:34:13 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on September 24, 2014, 10:19:32 amAgreed. And especially since wilfred says he's a beginner with STM32. In the past I'd have said "get a disco board" and these days it's "get a nucleo board". Those ST dev boards are so damn cheap it's not really all that interesting to get something from ebay. The price on those nucleo-f4x1 boards is hard to beat.That said, the stm32f1xx cheapos on ebay are interesting as well. But if you are just starting I'd think of those as a supplement, not the main attraction. Start out development on a nucleo-f401/411 (only € 8.57), so you have a nice bit of headroom to play. And possibly use the ebay cheapo's for your smaller projects where you don't need a fullblown f4, something like that.

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 12:35:03 am
content: The problem with those STM32 discovery and nucleo is that the shipping gonna be expensive in not so major country.That's why i love those cheap chinese board

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 10:56:30 am
content: Actually shipping can be a big deal even in countries that ARE major. S&H was actually more than product cost for all of my official dev boards. On these forums most will inflate or deflate the real cost to make their argument look better (I call them "danny-bucks"). I try to include the extra charges or refer to "shipped" in my comments. And back it up with links if possible.Quote from: westfw on September 24, 2014, 10:19:32 amI can't see a reason to prefer either over the minimum Ebay boards. The real cost in that OP link was $18 and change. The STlink clone is $4 and the blue boards $6 (even less on sale) on Aliexpress so you can just about buy another extra set for backup for same cost. I consider backup very important, specially when starting out. Aside from the advantages described in my previous post just recalled another plus for the clones: that ANNOYING virtual disk popup that comes up every time that Discovery is plugged in. Wouldn't be so bad except every one of those links is dead as a doornail.So the clones are not just cheaper, they are BETTER.ps. Unfortunately in my culture frugality is looked on as a character flaw and extravagance and pointless expense are considered virtues. "Oh yeah? Well I paid TWICE as much!" LOL

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 02:00:42 pm
content: BTW On the subject of cheap STM32F103 "unofficial" development boards here's a deal that costs not much more than a Discovery (counting shipping) or Ebay RB board yet includes TFT display, SD card slot, USB ports, and mucho other goodies:http://www.ebay.com/itm/221386399908?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITLooks like it's running windows and the touch keys even respond but not really and just a demo. I bought one a couple years ago but never got into it because of the incredibly painful ARM development process. It was just pulled off the shelf earlier this week in hopes that some burrs have been ground off the edges of the tools and that my human centipede crawling skills have improved a bit.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 04:08:17 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on September 25, 2014, 10:56:30 amJust be clear where you buy it and let the reader calculate for themselves what is "cheaper". Because your metric for cheaper and better might be different from someone else's. But yes, getting just 1 board at Mouser or Digikey is going to be silly expensive. Which is why for me that sort of dev-board always rides along with an order for other stuff. Where the total order obviously always happens to qualify for free shipping.QuoteCase in point. While for you the clone is better because you allow popups (how quaint), for me the usb mass storage "feature" has very low weight in the better/worse decision.http://fabooh.com/2014/03/16/how-to-deal-with-a-problematic-stm32-st-linkv1-device-and-ubuntu/Annoying problem solved. Not that I would get a popup even for avalidremovable disk, but that's besides the point. I don't want enumeration of disks that are not a disk.QuoteA lot of Apple hardware owners where you live?Anyways, the ST-link clones are definitely interesting. Have 2 in the ebay shopping cart right now. I was also looking at getting some cheap STM32F103 boards to take care of the lower end.Cheapest I could find so far was this one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-CortexM3-STM32F103C8T6-STM32-Core-System-Development-JTAG-AMS1117-33-Board-/301283707327The idea was to get 2 or 3 of those for breadboarding and general mucking about, and then 10 or 20 cheapo ic's for projects. But I was unable to find anything really cheap. Certainly not as lowly priced as I recall being mentioned in another thread. On ebay $21.50 for 10 STM32F103C8T6. And I recall from the other thread it being under $1, so I suspect I am missing something here.MMmh, GD32F103C8T6 is going for $15 for 10 on aliexpress. Nothing in GD32 flavor to be found on ebay, so I guess aliexpress it is... What was the cheapest you could find the F103's for?Edit:Mmmh, I think I'm mixing things up.The < $1 one was probably the stm32f030. Those seem to go for about $7 for 10 on ebay.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 05:06:01 pm
content: Maybe the $21 you mention is for the 100pcs STM8 I recently purchased on Aliexpress not 10pcs STM32. Dannyf and I were lucky to get STM8 at 5 for $1.76 on Ebay but as soon as this forum came to his attention the price doubled. In any case Ebay is not the place to get ST chips at this time. Here's the snapshot from the other thread for STM32 at $1.40 ea 10pcs:I've managed as low a $.80 ea (100pcs shipped) for refurbs but those type deals are very seasonal and you probably have to check in every day and be quick on the trigger. Also watch out for sales which can knock as much as 30% off. What makes things tougher is the totally flaky Aliexpress search engine which may or may not be in the mood to actually sort by price. No matter what you can always count on buying 10 for around $15 from any of several different sellers there.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 05:29:10 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on September 25, 2014, 05:06:01 pmDo you have a link to the item that is now double in price? That sort of behaviour is rather predictable, as is the inevitable drop in price. The amusing pricing on RTL based tuners for example. Just wait a bit, then order and tadaaa low price level. If only because they cannot afford to be undercut by their competitors and lose sales.Besides what stm32 specifically? I can get a stm32 NOW for that price level, just not an stm32f1. ;-) You mean 5pcs stm32f103 for $1.76? If so, nice price.Good to know as a reference of what is possible in terms of pricing.Yeah, the ~ $15 @10 on aliexpress price level I already found. I was just looking for the < $10 @ 10 because surely I am blind. XDHeh, random chinese refurb is one bridge too far for me.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 05:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on September 25, 2014, 05:29:10 pmEdit: Calling them STM32 was a typo, I meant STM8. Post corrected. STM32 were not featured in the ghetto thread. At least not until much later after being highlighted in the dollar thread. Still 35 cents was a great price on Ebay for such a small quantity. I can post a snapshot of the original listing if interested but here's the current one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171393117758?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITFYI All mention of STM32 here refers to STM32F103C8T6. As far as I'm concerned there is no other member of that family that competes in availability/feature/performance/cost. STM8=STM8S003F3P6 in 8bit ARM category for same reasons.Quote from: mrflibble on September 25, 2014, 04:08:17 pmGD is my bridge too far. I don't know how accurate statements in that area were. Don't forget he calls F103 rebranded F003 too. You may recall internet (freaks) rumors about LGT8F88A being AVR clones when really they were not compatible at all. Or the EM78xxx/PIC fiasco.Be careful with ghetto pricing too. His 16 cent "official" cost was not for any quantity readers of this forum would be interested in. That's what I meant by "danny-bucks". LOL. Dannyf is very smart and experienced, compared to me anyway, and I enjoy his threads but it can be a little hard picking the pearls out of the pile. I suppose we are all guilty of a little hyperbole on occasion. I've literally said it a MILLION times, don't exaggerate!

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 06:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on September 25, 2014, 05:52:00 pmWell, darnit. I was hoping for low low prices on those stm32 being possible, because that would just mean waiting for a bit for prices to come down. The stm8s ... you almost break your leg stumbling over those while looking for stm32's on ebay. Here, have an stm8. No? Here, have 10. Pleeeeease! Still, $1.79 @ 10 for those bare bones boards is nice.Too bad there's no gcc for it.As for GD32, I'm not buying those either. But I was willing to entertain the idea if the price was right. Turns out the price isn't right.Edit:By which I mean, I couldn't find any real price advantage for GD32 over the STM32.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 07:06:48 pm
content: Yeah... 35 cents would have been a great price for 103c. Even double that. As mentioned my record so far is 80 cents. In fact whenever they are anywhere close to a buck I grab them because one of my clients will pay close to full price even knowing they are 2nd class chips.I do wish there was GCC for STM8. Probably because these are such crummy MCUs for HLL. Only one register instead of the normal dozen probably makes life difficult for GNU coders. Reminds me of the old PICs crippled in the same way. The compact and efficient STVD package includes an excellent assembler though so fits my one dollar one minute bill quite nicely. Cosmic and Raisonance are probably good compilers too but I'm not willing to go through all that registration baloney just to play. Another nice thing about GCC.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 07:26:14 pm
content: QuoteHuh? The ghetto thread STARTED talking about STM32f030 chips, and only got diverted into STM8 experiments when he noticed how cheap they were...

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 07:36:40 pm
content: True, but as mentioned in my last post STM32 means 103c in "paulie talk". I was pleased to see the 103c finally brought into the fold there.Really quite ghetto too considering there's not a huge difference in price compared to F0. In many cases cheaper than F0, particularly considering memory and IO.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2014, 12:17:57 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on September 25, 2014, 04:08:17 pmHmmm, yes, but scroll down the page to the full product description. It's the same board, and you can read the STM32F103... on the chip, but have a read of the description at the very end:1 PCS BC04-B Bluetooth to UART Module Industrial Master-Slave Wireless BluetoothArticle-Nr.:5200137Product Details:BC04-B Bluetooth to UART ModuleCondition: NewDescription:1. Adopt the mainstream CSR bluetooth chip, the bluetooth V2.0 protocol standard2. Serial port module working voltage 3.3 V, Transmission distance is about 15 meters3. Default baud rates is 9600,it can be set by user4. Working status indication, connection and disconnected status signal output, is advantageous for the MCU to track the state of module5. Core module size: 26.7 x 13 x 2.2 mm6. Working current:matching: 2~30mA .matched but not communication: 5~6mA communicating: 10mA7. Sleep current: don't sleep, but support low power mode8. Used for GPS navigation systems, water and electricity gas meter reading system, industrial control system9. Can add bluetooth adapter with bluetooth laptops, computers, PDA and other equipment for seamless connectionSpecification:1. Bluetooth protocol: Bluetooth Specification v2.1+EDR2. USB protocol: USB v1.1/2.03. Frequency: 2.4GHz ISM band4. Modulation: GFSK(Gaussian Frequency Shift keying)5. Transmission power: 4dBm, Class 26. Sensitivity: -84dBm at 0.1% BER7. Rate:Asynchronous: 2.1Mbps(Max)/160 kbps,Synchronous:1Mbps/ 1Mbps8. Security features: Authentication and encryption9. Support profiles: SPP(master & slave)10. Power supply: +3.3VDC 50mA11. Working temperature: -20~+55 Centigrade12. Size: 26.7mm x 13mm x 2.2 mmNOTE :BC04-B is the master-slave integrated bluetooth serial port module,Master-slave can be changed by commandColor and more details are shown as picturesPLS NOTE that due to lighting effects, monitor's brightness/ contrass settings ect, there could be some slight differences in the color tone of the pictures and the actual item!Package Included:1 x BC04-B Bluetooth to UART ModuleStill, for $8.21 it's hard to quibble, and what appears to be the same board is also advertised on that same page for $7.96, and then $6.59.

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2014, 12:36:16 pm
content: OT:Quote from: mrflibble on September 25, 2014, 06:39:32 pmNo GCC, but there is a working SDCC for STM8 (plus several other free STM8 attempts).The real problem is that there is no free and open source gdb for STM8.Well, there is gdb7 (GPL) from STM that works great with STM8 but unfortunately this is an old version of GDB (without MI) so it would require rebuilding + minor tweaks to work under Eclipse.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2014, 12:59:11 pm
content: Quote from: Sailor on October 03, 2014, 12:17:57 pmFirst of not all of those are lowest cost options. For example that $6.59 turns into $8 when you actually click on it. Not everyone on these forums is a great shopper but with a little experience one can quickly find the best deals. In this case following my "cortex board" lowest cost suggestion from the other thread will allow you to save a couple bucks. Also note that another dollar or two gets knocked off on Aliexpress due to no Paypal or Ebay fees. I prefer the Ebay protection so usually willing to pay a little more, a LITTLE more.Due to increased publicity prices are creeping up in these listings. When my buddies and I purchased they were $5 and change on Ebay and $4 at Aliexpress.On a listing as confusing as that one there are two possibilities: you might get it for free or you might get stiffed. If there's not too much money involved and you are polite it's usually full refund. Otherwise expect 50% settlement. For an escalated case it's up to Ebay customer support to decide and if you don't get tricky or do this on a daily basis they usually decide in favor of the buyer.