Teaching electronics to yourself. A viable approach? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 12:35:04 am
content: Hey everyone!For some background, seemy introduction.I am approaching electronics from a mathematician's viewpoint I guess, so I might be doing this all wrong. My plan on how to get into electronics is this: I want to set up my own electronics lab based on Dave's recommendations at home after*) studying the theory from this (in my opinion),http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Electronic-Circuits-Kaufmann-Architecture/dp/1558607358/outstanding piece of literature. And then read"The Art of Electronics"Scherz, Monk - "Practical Electronics for Inventors" on the side while building all the circuits fromthe above bookForrest Mims' electronic circuit scratchbooks on breadboards (alternatively in Manhattan style on prototyping boards) and getting acquainted with the devices in the lab (power supply, multimeters, scopes, all things required for soldering, etc.). Coming from mathematics, I always found it enlightening to have practical examples at hand where I could apply the theory on and rediscover theorems myself, however I also almost always found the examples given in the literature too trivial to get actual deep practical experience with. I had to make up more elaborate cases myself.So, in the same philosophy, I bought a still perfectly functional Sony Video 8 Camcorder,as torn down in #357 / #380 above, on eBay for a very low price. It has a truly impressive service manual which is detailed enough to learn a huge amount of practical analog design from as far as I can tell. My practical (i.e. after learning the theory) study plan is to play with its circuits non-invasively and try to recreate/design subcircuits of it myself (without looking at the schematics), just knowing the subcircuit's expected behavioral characteristics from testing it with a scope. This is where the waveforms in the service manual will come in handy. I am not sure yet how I'll proceed after this, but yeah...... my question is this: What's your opinion on this study plan? Can it work, or is it bound to fail for some reason that I cannot see due to my inexperience?Thanks!Best wishes,Anquietas*) there's a reason why I want to do it after learning the theory: I can't afford the equipment yet, so I have to save up some money and I can't think of a better way to spend my time than working through an EE textbook.P.S. Almost not worth mentioning, but I already successfully repaired my mother's wireless landline phone and saved us $100.But it wasn't particularly impressive. Its 2.5mm TRS jack female surface mount connector broke off and I soldered it back following Dave's guidelines on proper SMT soldering (although using a cheap $20 constant temperature soldering iron because I couldn't afford more at this point and it was still cheaper than a new phone).EDIT:It appears that "The Art of Electronics" is best read after a more modern practical introduction, for which I have chosenScherz, Monk - "Practical Electronics for Inventors".

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 12:54:11 am
content: Not a bad idea, but I think your studies will not be so straightforward as you may think. You may get off track, discouraged, or pissed at an inanimate object. A lot of things can happen when you are not being pressured by a strict curriculum. But there are many benefits of teaching yourself. You can focus on your own particular needs etc.You will definitely use math. Most of it you will encounter is algebra, though the algebra is mainly derived from calculus, which you may choose to dive into.I would personally read a shorter book first that gets you exposed to a whole lot of concepts (briefly). I own a pretty small book called "The All New Electronics Self Teaching Guide". It's not very in depth, but it's fairly practical and straight forward. There are many others. The only reason I suggest this is because I tend to get easily distracted or discouraged, and some of those books pack some pretty heavy material for a newcomer. However, if you think you won't have this problem, by all means go for the big guns, get the Foundations book and TAOE.Probably the best idea is to do a good combination of "bookwork" and "labs", as if you were in school. A lot of people don't do the "labs" because it takes a while to set up etc. However, it will teach you something about the real world, vs the book world, and you get to prove to yourself how the things work. Of course, you don't have to try everything, but it's interesting to actually see it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 01:14:39 am
content: If I read you right, you are about to get an advanced degree in mathematics (graduate student, not undergraduate student), although 23 seems pretty young for a PhD--perhaps you are getting a Master's?In any case, as a graduate student in a mathematical subject you should find learning electronics a breeze, the theoretical side at least. You may have to work a bit harder on the practical side.You are taking a step from what might be considered a purely academic domain into an engineering domain, and if there is one thing that characterizes engineering it is abstractions. Everything in engineering is about abstractions. So perhaps you have picked the right book; I don't know, I haven't read it.Anyway, I don't see any obvious reason in principle why you won't succeed, but maybe you are taking on too much by diving straight into the camcorder? If I were you I would pick some easier targets to start with.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 01:25:18 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on February 15, 2013, 12:54:11 amThanks for the reply! Yes, I believe this is definitely true. I may also break stuff as a result of my lack of experience; for instance, break the Sony Video 8 Camcorder (while probing it with the scope?). I have zero practical skills so far, so this may prove frustrating.QuoteThis is true, but I am pure mathematics graduate student, so all of the maths I have seen in EE so far is trivial to me. This is the least of my concerns, which is why I didn't shy away from the Foundations book.QuoteI picked the Foundations book and TAOE because I knew of them, basically, and they had great reputation. The Foundations book also has a nice unique structure with abstraction being its central tenet, so it felt somewhat familiar. There are tons of other books out there and I'll certainly take a look at the one you suggested. Thanks!QuoteWill keep this in mind! Also, another question, how do I learn of all the different components? Are there books detailing components and their characteristics or do I have to Google them? So, assume I need some component with a special behavior - how do I find out if I have to design it as a tiny (or not so tiny) circuit based on discrete basic components or just buy it off the shelf as an IC or application-specific solid state component?

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 01:32:15 am
content: Quote from: IanB on February 15, 2013, 01:14:39 amIt's an M.Sc. degree I am about to complete, I work as a TA for the advanced calculus and algebraic topology classes this term and my professor wants me as a PhD student but I am most certainly going to decline in favor of my other interests (interdisciplinary research, studying Biotech), since I feel that at this point in my life my time is better spent broadening my understanding of the physical world than specializing into a certain direction I will not be able to escape so easily later on.QuoteI am very open for suggestions!

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 01:45:19 am
content: There's actually not a giant amount of basic parts out there. But yes it can be quite befuddling. Truthfully, I am sure there are many components out there which I don't even know of or understand...but initially, there's really only a few that you care about. Don't go trying to learn them all at first because you're just going to get confused, because some of them will make little or no sense unless you have a solid foundation. You start off with resistors and batteries. Then you look at capacitors, then transistors, then op-amps, then inductors maybe. Whatever the order may be. But don't try to learn them all at once because it will not make sense.You will pick a component based on the needs of the application, (which will again make sense when you get there). While you can totally make a voltage regulator out of an op amp and some related circuitry, it is far easier, cheaper, and simpler to buy an off the shelf 3-pin voltage regulator. It's a balance between ease, practicality, effectiveness and price.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 01:49:09 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on February 15, 2013, 01:45:19 amIt's probably also quite educational to build required circuitry yourself first before abstracting it away into an off the shelf package. Thanks, I will keep this in mind.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 02:14:36 am
content: Perhaps, but I think you will see that you may want to start with the abstractions, and then when you have made sense of the abstractions, then go further and delve into them. I'm not sure if that makes sense. And to be quite frank, there may not be too many things to actually build (instead of getting an "off the shelf package". Don't think of it as cheating yourself, because if you are bewildered, then that's no good.Trying to go head first into everything is like analyzing electricity on the physics/electron scale. If you do it that way, you'll go crazy. Abstractions are good.I think of learning electronics as peeling off layers of an onion. You peel back one layer, and then you expose another etc. I think once you start your studies you will understand what I'm saying and what others may tell you. I do not doubt your engineering abilities at all. You seem to be a very intelligent person and a hard worker, so you should catch on quickly, just try not to get bogged down with the nitty gritty, because eventually (as you peel back more and more layers) those questions you had will be answered.Personally, I've barely scratched the surface of electronics, but that's the mindset I like to keep. Be curious. Curiosity is great. But just stay within your bounds. You'll be fine.

author: Todd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 02:42:49 am
content: Anquietas,There is a complete MIT course available online athttp://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-002-circuits-and-electronics-spring-2007/I mention this because they use the book you linked and it is taught by one of the authors.Anyway, good luck. I am also just starting to learn electronics and enjoying myself so far.-edited to link the correct course

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:22:51 am
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 15, 2013, 12:35:04 amYes, it's a great plan, and you'll learn a lot.Yes, you will fail, and that's a GOOD thing! To learn electronics you have to fail, because that's when you have to troubleshoot and figure things out, and that's when the real learning happens.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:26:09 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on February 15, 2013, 12:54:11 amIn practice, the majority of practical electronics can be done with hardly any math at all. i.e. I keep saying that I haven't had to solve an integral in 20+ years in the industry. But as always, YMMV.But if the math floats your boat then there is plenty of interesting advanced math in many aspects of electronics if you want to pursue that.Dave.

author: tld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 11:18:32 am
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 15, 2013, 12:35:04 amI think teaching yourself electronics is utterly doomed to fail. There's a very slim chance you'll be able to teach yourself electronics. Teaching yourself something - anything - isextremelyhard.That said, you don't have to, and you don't seem to be planning to either. I think the first thing to realize when you're looking to pick up a new skill outside an institution (school, university, apprenticeship... ) is that you're actuallynottrying to teach it to yourself, but rather, you have a huge supply of experts standing by to help you. Many of them can be bought quite cheaply on amazon or your local bookstore. You'll find even more on the interwebs, and so on.Or put differently; Your plan seems good, but it's not teaching it to yourself, it's with the help of some very skilled experts, often the same ones you'd rely on if learning it in a more formalized matter. The difference just isn't always all that huge.If you think about it, the primary difference between learning something in an institution and self-driven, is perhaps less teacher-supplied structure. There's a tradeoff there. They'd guide you through things in a pace, path and direction known to work, but they'd also to a degree restrict you to it. By doing it self-driven, you remove some of that, but you donotremove access to guidance and others knowhow (in books for example). It's interesting to see a study-plan through that perspective, because it allows you to keep an eye on what you miss and what you gain.You miss some structure, which can be good to think consciously about and around, such as making study-plans, but alsokeepit as a topic, adjust it when need be, etc.You also gain a lot. If you're trying to figure out some finer points of op-amps, you're more free to go off on a tangent until you've verified that you've gotten it right for example. To some degree you could do that in an institution as well, but you do really have more freedom to roam about the subject matter and set directions yourself this way.Quote from: Anquietas on February 15, 2013, 12:35:04 amI don't know you well enough to say, but I'd at least try to get some equipment as soon as possible. Some people are happy with an entirely theoretical (book-form) way of learning something, but I think most would benefit from some hands-on as well.Seeing something work, verifying the behavior you're expecting from a circuit, motivation-boost from having built something that works, etc.There's a lot of boost/positive feedback to be had there, and I highly recommend it.You do need something like what Dave talks about to have aproperelectronics lab, but you donotneed a proper electronics lab to start getting some stuff done, and positive motivational and educational feedback from it.Multimeter, soldering iron (preferably variable temp station), some protoboards and random parts, could go a very long way. Even breadboarding would.A bit of a squeeze perhaps, but you could get the basics of that set up for something like $50-100.Rounding it off with getting back to how to learn...One of the things I do when I try to teach myself something, is that I realize I'm without an automatic teacher-confirmation that I've gotten something right. The easiest way to do that with electronics, seems to be to build the damn thing.Without teacher-based checks and balances on what I get, catching if I think I did, but missed something, it's sometimes useful to add checks and balances in other forms.I can calculate a 555-based blinking LED circuit, but in order to check/proove that I got it right, it can be useful (and entertaining) to build the thing up (about $1 in parts).That way I get confirmation that yes, I am actually getting things right, then give the thing to my kid.tld(sorry for the half-random brain-dump on the topic... )

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 11:37:47 am
content: Quote from: tld on February 15, 2013, 11:18:32 amMost of us probably started out like that, and yes, you don't need much at all to do a lot.I spent years without an oscilloscope, but then again, I wasn't a teenager yet.Dave.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 02:45:28 pm
content: Buy yourself a bunch of passives and lm324 op amps. Then try to do calculus with them. Since you are a mathematician, the math will be trivial. It will give you a great feel for the analog side of things. It may also be worthwhile to teach yourself C and visual basic. Good luck

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 03:04:19 pm
content: Thanks for all the answer! I will respond to all of them tonight.Quote from: smashedProton on February 15, 2013, 02:45:28 pmAye, thanks! Will do.I must actually compile a to-do list with suggestions I get from this community...QuoteI have some practical knowledge of C, having spent some time with Kernighan/Ritchie for an exam I took in "Scientific Programming" and "Design and Analysis of Algorithms". My languages of choice, though, for rapid prototyping are Haskell, Python and the SAGE Interpreter. Doing hardware design with Haskell is cutting edge research at the moment, so I probably won't be doing that any time soon. Python, however, can come in handy for Raspberry Pi development, if I recall that correctly. All of this is I think at a wholly different level, though, because it's (1) digital design and (2) abstracts much of the underlying electronics away. That said, I am also interested in using MatLAB and Mathematica with hardware interfaces. But ... everything at the proper time.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 08:04:59 pm
content: There is an interesting offer on eBay for a Tektronix 2465 Analog benchtop scope with manual, bandwidth 100MHz - 349MHz, 4CH, built in 1994. Can I start learning analog design and probing circuits with this device? That is, is it worth getting my hands on?

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 08:39:10 pm
content: How much money is it?

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: smashedProton on February 15, 2013, 08:39:10 pmRoughly $350, spot price.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:50:26 pm
content: I thought myself electronics by reading books and repairing stuff. I started in 2007. But at start I had the feeling to loose track in all those fields so I choose RF. To have a goal I decided to get my HAM licence.After this I found my way and where to find info. I "specialised" in analog design, ( passive) component behaviour, precision measurements, calibration and RF.I have dyscalcus and that makes some things difficult so you have an advantageI think I was not unsuccesfull, so do not let them talk you out of it. If you want, you can.

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 10:26:22 pm
content: Did you take any physics courses with your math degree? If not, your pretty useless in the real world outside of teaching. Sorry, I'm not trying to beat you.In my engineering school, the second semester of physics was electric/magnetic fields. You need to have a rudimentary understanding of this to understand how components work.Truly the EE path IS NOT the way to learn how electronics work, unless you had a course taught by someone who put the technician understanding of electronics.I would get the text and lab books from a trade school course on electronics. I was in my Junior year of engineering, and I'm sorry a 2 port circuit analysis does not give you the intuitive understanding of transistors unless you already have this in your head (nor does the Ebers-Moll Model). You want to understand the intuitive way things work. So I took a break for just one semester, and attended the second semester course in electronic instrument repair. Pure luck I was in the right place at the right time. This made reading a schematic a basis skill. I was always mechanically inclined, but had no electronic mentors, as you can't understand how a Radio works by looking inside the box, like you can an engine or transmission.Start with TUBES or VALVES, the physics of these is real easy, and once you understand how to make an analog amplifier with them, you can transition to transistors. But it's that intuitive seeing how it works.Are you good at mechanical stuff, like understanding how your car works, as well simple "door-bell" circuits? This will indicate you have a brain that is wired to understand circuit function. If not, I can't suggest anything.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 11:29:34 pm
content: Quote from: ignator on February 15, 2013, 10:26:22 pmI am minoring in Theoretical Physics, so, yes, I am taking physics courses, including Classical and Quantum Electrodynamics, but I am yet to take the exams because I focus on the pure maths courses at the moment, hence my knowledge in physics isn't particularly deep. As I said, the theoretical foundations (mathematical and physical) are the least of my concerns. Gaining a practical understanding, a working knowledge of electrical engineering with which I can actually create working devices is my long-term goal.What you say about Mathematics is incorrect, though - depending on your definition of "real world outside of teaching".There is intensive and groundbreaking research happening in Mathematics that is entirely on a par with research in other STEM fields both in terms of theoretical and practical relevance.The fact that you think an advanced degree in Mathematics is useless in the real world reflects your lack of insight into the academics of this field of science.QuoteThanks! And don't be sorry for giving advice or voicing your opinion. Debate and argument are an integral part of the scientific process - just like observation and experimentation.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 01:33:10 am
content: Quote from: ignator on February 15, 2013, 10:26:22 pmI completely support the need for experimental lab work to aid learning and understanding, but I think you go too far when you suggest it is not possible to learn something like electronics from a theoretical standpoint.Electronics and other disciplines are based around building abstract mathematical models of devices to model how they work1. The models can range from the simple to the detailed, depending on the application need. Someone with a good mathematical training will be able to look at these models and understand how the devices work. The mathematical modelisthe intuition. Put another way, you can describe in your head the way a circuit ought to work, go and build that circuit on the bench, and itwillwork. Having never built it before.Oh sure, there will be a few surprises along the way where components don't precisely follow their model or you go beyond the valid range of applicability, but in general it works. It's the difference between the professional study of engineering at university and the practical study of electronics at trade school. For example, the mathematical model of an ideal capacitor is this:i=Cdv/dt(whereiis the current,vis the voltage andCis the capacitance).Now without ever having seen or laid hands on a capacitor, a mathematician will know exactly what to expect from one and how it should behave. The intuition of capacitance is completely contained in that equation2. Our mathematician will now be curious, and will wonder if there might be a device with this equation:v=Ldi/dtIt will come as no surprise to learn that there is such a device, and it is called an inductor. The existence of such a device is predictable by extrapolating from the capacitor model. We almost expect that such a device has to be, even if we have never seen one and don't know what it might look like. That's intuition.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 02:45:30 am
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 15, 2013, 09:14:27 pmWith that money, I think its better to get cheap Chinese DSO instead of risking possible failure/malfunctioning cause of old age, also you will need a decent probes to exploit it's full bandwidth which is not cheap even used at eBay.And once those custom hybrid ICs inside it experiencing problem, that nice scope will turned into a gigantic paper weight.

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 05:46:49 am
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 15, 2013, 11:29:34 pm

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 06:05:29 am
content: Quote from: ignator on February 16, 2013, 05:46:49 amReally? Surely many things in semiconductor device design depend on quantum theory, which requires mathematical treatments developed in the 20th century?

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 12:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: ignator on February 16, 2013, 05:46:49 amThis is probably only your subjective impression. There are many people of your age group in freshman's year courses for pure mathematics (minoring in physics or some engineering field). Most of them come from the industry, having worked for decades as engineers, and they finally follow up on their "childhood dreams".On the narrow insight of (pure math) PhDs: Of course you can't say this about all of them, not even about the majority, but there is an unfortunate side-effect in the sciences that people who study the "pure" fields of STEM, that is, maths, physics, chemistry, biology, end up rather isolated unless they pursue interdisciplinary research or educate themselves so as to not become isolated. Interdisciplinary research is what I am aiming for eventually, but I want a solid foundation first. After obtaining my M.Sc. in Mathematics I am most likely going on to study Molecular Biotechnology, etc. but I mentioned all of this in my introduction post (in the intro thread).

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 04:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 16, 2013, 06:05:29 amI hope I'm not incorrect, but I differentiate a tool from the use of the tool. Schrodinger, Fermi-Dirac, Bose-Einstein to me were all the re-use of Gauss probability/statistics mathematical tools, and just defined new distributions. But I didn't go down the path of being a physics or math major, and spent time re-developing the equations for the distribution, so I may be wrong.The only new math that I'm aware of is Fractals, and some math (I can't recall it's name) that describes the dancing of bees used to communicate the distance and direction to the nectar. There's probably lots more, as I'm not reading any publications or studying anything new in the math world. I never liked the delta-epsilon proof crap that the math department used to teach calculus to engineering students. But they were teaching it as a general class for both math and non-math majors.

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 05:52:42 pm
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 16, 2013, 12:30:09 pmI'm 56, my energy level were hard study is needed is disappearing fast. And I have ADD which is worse with age.And I may have a biased view of PHDs from the ones at work. We have all fields of skill set PHDs, they are damn smart people, but as I've only ever seen one that was broad band. There may be more, but you have to work with them on a project to see this. I worked with one guy who is the "father of facsimile technology" (the fax), real sharp PHD EE. He figured out the Hoffman code for sending fax's.But working with him I found he was limited and did not see the big picture.It's clear you are way beyond just math, biology is a total different field.Now this whole tread is teaching electronics to yourself, I absolutely believe it can be done. But my approach is the intuitive understanding vs the theoretical understanding. Yes you can look at equations and see relations. But I want to see the electron flow, and understand the control of it's behavior that in the end must make sense for me to understand what's going on. With modern day circuit analysis tools, you can instrument the virtual design, and muddle with inputs and see what changes. But it has to make sense or I would be lost. I am not a theoretical EE, but I'm damn good at finding root cause of system failure, down to the component level. Or at least I imagine I am. It always made my day when there was an AOG (aircraft on ground) somewhere on the planet. I loved trouble shooting what was wrong with the system. And I couldn't do that if I didn't understand intuitively how stuff works. That was my point, and that's what works for me.In the end, are you going to be able to bias a transistor? Either as a switch, or an amplifier. And knowing what parameters are important like current gain, breakdown voltage, stuff not obvious in the theoretical world.I like it when I'm WOWED by a generalist co-worker that out of no where, has a simple elegant solution to solve or fix a problem. That's when work is fun.

author: houdini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 08:15:08 pm
content: always over order parts because if you only order exactaly what you need they will break. I have probably blown up 20+ mosfets while "learning"

author: TheBrick
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 10:23:44 pm
content: I too am (or was) a time served mathematician both in industry and academia, now I'm closer to software but still with a maths / engineering bent. I'm no electronics expert I have find getting involved and experimenting more valuable than reading theory. For hobby grade stuff most of the maths is simple, but there are many intricacies to applying them properly. Buy some bits and have a play.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 10:58:15 pm
content: From an physicists and electronic hobbyists perspective I suggest starting with one of the numerous leds tutorials from the web for learning the absolut basics.After that you could continue with sensor circuitry, either plain analog or with a microcontroller. If you use a microcontroller, i suggest starting with the arduino, because there are a lot of tutorials and example-projects on the net. From the application of microcontrollers evolve whole fields of interesting electronics like measuring things, power supply, wire based or wireless communication, robotics....Theoretical electrodynamics and quantum electrodynamics won't help you in learning practical electronics. It may help you much later on to understand some subtle effects and in some cases the physics behind a component, but it's in a lot of ways like solving real world math problems analytical versus numerical.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2013, 03:59:34 pm
content: Okay, I bought myself a Tektronix 2465B and four passive probes (model P6139A). Original operator's manual was included. It belonged to a retired telecommunications/electrical engineer who is doing EE as a hobby now and specializes on Tektronix 24** scopes. He has all hybrid parts stocked and upgrades the PCBs of these devices himself, by adding heat-sinks to sensitive thermally unprotected hybrids and adds new fans, improves the hardware here and there, etc. - he sold me this (refurbished, calibrated and slightly improved) scope and the four original Tektronix passive probes.Here are pictures of the probes and the operator's manual,When I unpacked it, and put it on my table, I changed its orientation and heard something inside the case move around. I flipped the device again, and that ominous component fell across the device's interior again. I was afraid that it might have gotten damaged during transport. I grabbed my balls and opened it up.What I found was a beautiful board and a custom heat-sink,and an apparently broken off screw head that could've easily(?) caused a short and the scope's destruction had I not caught this before powering it on,After removing this and cleaning up the interior a little bit I put it back together and powered it up, attached the probe to the test signal and played around with it,It's now resting in my bookshelf and waiting for me to finish reading the manual, the Foundations book and get a copy of "Practical Electronics for Inventors" and some equipment to start experimenting.Yay.P.S. The engineer I purchased the item from always has one or two scopes of this series for sale on eBay and has much more of them stocked at home.Thisis his eBay shop, if anyone is interested.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2013, 08:31:59 pm
content: Beautiful scope, hope you'll enjoy itThat metal piece looks like one of those push buttons to close/attach the document pouch that is attached to the enclosure.Edit: woops, I didn't look at the other pictures. Looks like you found the culprit.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2013, 01:04:13 am
content: Congratz on that nice scope !Although not a big deal if you're not in precision measurement, that scope's input capacitance is at 15 pF, while the P6139A probe compensation range in only 8pF to 12pF.The right probe capable up to 400 Mhz that has matched compensation is P6137 with the adjusment range from 12pF up to 18pF.

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2013, 01:27:24 am
content: I have the 2467, which, so far as I understand, is basically the same scope but with a different display. Mine came with P6139A probes as well.I bought mine used so I don't know if they're the original probes or not.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2013, 01:33:28 am
content: Quote from: TerminalJack505 on March 08, 2013, 01:27:24 amOriginal probes that came with Tek 246x series that capable of 400 Mhz that has the matched capacitance is P6137.Photos of my P6137 heads :

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2013, 03:39:44 pm
content: Ah, right. I didn't mean "original 2465 probes", just original Tektronix probes. My probes are original TDS series probes, but that doesn't really matter for the very first practical steps I am about to take in EE.Quote from: BravoV on March 08, 2013, 01:04:13 amThanks.I love it.QuoteI see. Thanks for the information!Edit:Luckily I don't have a girlfriend to distract me from EE.