UK, group purchase. Keithley 2000 Bench conversion kit - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 08:22:25 am
content: I think that there are a few people who, like me, are new owners of Keithley 2000 series DMMs which have rack mount kits attached.The price from Keithley for the "bench conversion kit" (i.e handle) is, apparently, £28 (presumably plus VAT & delivery) but Keithley have a minimum order of £40 which, I think, has meant people weren't able to go ahead with a purchase.I'm willing to organise a group purchase if anyone is interested - we only need 1 extra person to get above the £40 MOV.PM me if interested.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 03:57:06 pm
content: Ooops, I just placed an order with them on Friday for some of the benchkits...Don't try doing it by buying the individual items this time, they've bumped the price of single odds and ends right up through the roof...

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 06:11:27 pm
content: QuoteUnless you have access to a discount it shouldn't make any difference if I order three kits for myself and a couple of others.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 10:38:47 pm
content: I've just ordered a 2015 from the same (dodgy?) source as you so may be interested in adding the handles - I won't really know until it arrives and I've had a play with it.Don't hold up an order on my behalf, but perhaps let me know if you're about to send one off so I get a chance to be in on it.Thanks

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2014, 08:02:36 pm
content: OK 2 (and a half - jpb?) people interested.Asked Keithley for a price first thing Mon only to be met with, so far, a stunning silence - not overly impressive.Will prod some more tomorrow.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2014, 09:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on June 10, 2014, 08:02:36 pmI think my 2015 is due to arrive on Thursday. I should be able to commit either way then. It sounds as if Keithley are holding things up a bit anyway.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 07:56:59 am
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on June 10, 2014, 08:02:36 pmNice lady who dealt with my enquiry and order within hours:sandra.verlinden@tektronix.comThey are £24.00 each, delivery is free. Lead time several weeks.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 10:58:22 am
content: They've been back to me - not with the quote but with a "can we do anything else for you" so I've replied that they could, perhaps, give me the quote that I asked for in the first place.Pity about the lead time but I suspect we're just stuck with that.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 11:07:13 am
content: Is it more to this kit than the handle?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keithley-Handle-Part-Number-428-329-/261365177684?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cda941d54

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 11:11:36 am
content: Quote from: neslekkim on June 11, 2014, 11:07:13 amYes, there are some side pieces that mount to the meter that the handle attaches to.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 11:36:37 am
content: QuoteRear feet as well.Ok Keithley have now confirmed the same price to me as TopLoser mentioned - £24 plus VAT. Sadly the VAT plus re-packaging and sening them out as well as accepting payment via PayPal will add to that but if anyone else is interested the price delivered in the UK (2nd class parcels, assuming I can get it within the "small parcel" size limits) will be £34.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 12:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on June 11, 2014, 11:07:13 am1 x Handle 428-329F GBP 9.0 each1 x Mounting Ear L 428-338B GBP 9.0 each1 x Mounting Ear R 428-328E GBP 9.0 each2 x Foot 428-319A GBP 0.9 eachPlus a few screws for the feet and handleTotal cost of buying the parts in the kit is now more than the cost of the kit, before they bumped the prices up it used to work out about half the price.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 12:54:40 pm
content: QuoteSomeone did post the quote that they got - can't put my finger on it for the moment.The handle only sale on ebay looks OK if a) you just have a broken handle and b) you live in the US. Otherwise not a great deal.£24 is actually not that bad considering what some accessories cost. At least it's merely "a bit expensive" not "We're the only place to get this and all our other customers are corporates so dip in your pockets and smile, sonny".

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 01:06:21 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on June 11, 2014, 12:54:40 pmI think it's great that they even sell it at all, let alone sell it to minions like us for £24 with free shipping. Fabulous price really.BTW I just got a quote of £45 for calibrating these 2015 meters from PASS. They're picking some up from me tomorrow and returning them early next week. I'll post my comments when they arrive back...

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 04:21:52 pm
content: *some* ? are you also sitting on an heap of these?The ebay seller seems to have slowed down now, maybe they are out..

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 06:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on June 11, 2014, 04:21:52 pmI have only 2. One for my own use and checking any other meters I sell, and one for if anybody ever asks me for one in the future. I like to have nice things ready to sell if people ask for them.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 07:02:35 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 11, 2014, 07:56:59 amSounds like a Belgian name.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2014, 10:48:47 am
content: If it's not too late, could I put my name down for one of these kits please?My 2015THD just arrived, and it has no handle and one rack mount ear.(For sale: one rack mount ear to fit Keithley 2000 series!!)

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2014, 11:19:51 am
content: Put me down for a couple please, I've just found a few meters at the back of the storage unit.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2014, 11:30:45 am
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 11, 2014, 07:56:59 amDo they sell other things to pass the £40 limit? original probes etc?

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2014, 12:22:43 pm
content: QuoteYes, but they tend to be a bit steep - eg£46 for an RS-232 cable

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 05:39:55 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on June 11, 2014, 10:58:22 amMy conversions kits arrived today, a month quicker than expected. The meters come back from their £45 calibration at PASS tomorow.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 06:32:26 pm
content: QuoteOK, cool - hopefully the ones I ordered won't be too long either.

author: Mark Hennessy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 09:01:00 pm
content: Funnily enough, I emailed them yesterday. Here is the response:Code:Your messageTo:Subject: 2015 THDSent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 8:09:40 AM (UTC) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Londonwas deleted without being read on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 8:09:25 AM (UTC) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London.Not a great first impressionAs well as handles, I also enquired about replacement VFDs. Has anyone any idea how much these might cost? Mine isn't terrible, but definitely dim and uneven.Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 16, 2014, 10:48:47 amMine also came with one rack ear. I might be interested in another one - how much did you want?All the best,Mark

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 09:11:23 pm
content: PM me your address and you can have it for the cost of postage; it's just taking up space on my bench, and it seemed a shame to chuck it in the bin!

author: Mark Hennessy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 09:23:37 pm
content: Wow - thank you! PM sent

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 10:02:47 am
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 18, 2014, 05:39:55 pmHi TopLoser,Did your meters come back and what was the outcome - do PASS do a good service?

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 09:55:23 am
content: Quote from: jpb on June 23, 2014, 10:02:47 amNope still not got them back, so much for 3 day or free.First problem was that it was the first time they had seen a 2015 so they had to write a procedure, that made it a 5 day job. Then they told me one of them needed an 'adjustment' so it would pass calibration. Funny, I thought that was what calibration was. That was middle of last week, no idea where they are now. Think I'll give them a call.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 10:18:38 am
content: My 2000 meter needed "adjustment" when I sent it in to another lab a couple of years ago. I've no idea what they changed, but it made the process rather more expensive than it should have been because they needed to run through the cal process twice.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 10:34:38 am
content: Well they've 'adjusted' one of them and it's passed, I think they're waiting for the planets to align before they move on to the second one. The 'adjustment' cost an extra £20 but they only charge for 1 calibration cycle.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 12:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 24, 2014, 09:55:23 amI presume that a 'calibration' is just an automated set of measurements of automatically applied voltages/currents/Rs with the results tested for pass/fail and written to some sort of output file for printing.If there is a fail I guess they then have to run the manual calibration procedure on the instrument itself or at least on that range which perhaps requires a technician to type in values rather than just running the whole thing with a script file.One thing I found interesting about the Keithley calibration document that came with the 2000 was that some of the readings looked exact as printed out but there was still a several ppm error listed separately so presumably the Fluke calibrator (or whatever is used) outputs a separate error value.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 11:55:31 am
content: Quote from: jpb on June 23, 2014, 10:02:47 amTwo meters finally arrived back with me today, 25th June.PASS advertised a '3 day or free' service and they collected them from me on the 12th June, so they have had them in the lab for at least 7 working days. They claimed they took that long because a) they had never calibrated this model of meter and had to write a procedure and b) they needed adjustment to pass calibration. Ok, whatever.They arrived back looking nicely packaged. Opened the box and some very nice processed cardboard cushioning material had been used to protect them. Well sort of... the two meter were flat against the bottom of the carboard box with 2 thin layers of small bubble wrap.. the nice cushioning material was just used to cover them! Best of intentions but a big fat fail in practice, I'll drop them a note about that as they say all packaging operations are recorded on CCTV.Printed certificates were present, they won't supply PDF versions at all. Certificates listed 'before' and 'after' results.The first meter had barely failed on AC current 3A range, barely failed on resistance 4 wire high and low range, and was way out on thermocouple range (5%)The second meter barely failed on just the resistance 4 wire high and low ranges, and I do mean barely failed.These were both meters from KJDS on the group. The first one did need a little tweak to get the thermocouple range sorted, but the 'before' readings for just about everything else were pretty much spot on. The second meter in my opinion didn't need to be calibrated at all, but it's nice to know it's been done.For the advertised price of £45+£15 pickup and collection with a 3 day service I think it would have been exceptional value. They actually ended up costing £45+£20+£15 and taking the best part of 2 weeks.For anybody else with a KJDS 2015THD it looks like they're pretty much in spec, just be careful of the thermocouple range and 4 wire resistance high and low ranges.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 11:59:42 am
content: So, given that they took so long, why is the calibration not free?

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 12:07:25 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 25, 2014, 11:59:42 amTerms and conditions. Meters needed adjustment and they weren't an instrument PASS had already written procedures for.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 12:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 25, 2014, 11:55:31 amThose prices are presumably plus VAT?I did a quick google of PASS and for calibration I was redirected to calibrate.co.uk.Their current price list seems to have gone up by £5 (£49:50 plus VAT for bench top multimeters) or did they give you a discount for doing 2 ?http://www.calibrate.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/calibrate-price-list-v2-w.pdf

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 01:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 25, 2014, 11:55:31 amI just had a look at the Keithley calibration on my K2000 and that doesn't include anything on the thermocouple range (it covers Ohms, DCV, ACV, DCI, ACI, Frequency and Zero performance verification).I have also looked at the Keithley 2000 calibration manual and it also does not include thermocouple in the calibration procedure. Presumably as what is being measured is DCV it should be covered by the DCV calibration but there is also the reference junction. On the 2000 this is either taken from the switching card (which the 2015 wouldn't have) or is simulated:This is from the manual (for the 2000)QuoteI am now a bit puzzled about what the Thermocouple calibration is actually doing. The standard thermocouple types are all already programmed in and it is then a voltage measurement. Unless the 2015 is significantly different, there doesn't seem to be any calibration involved.Edit : I just found the 2015 manual and it states that it simulates the junction (i.e. the same as the 2000 but without the option of adding a switching card with a reference junction).

author: andy_silicon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 05:55:57 am
content: Jpb - did the documentation from PASS show the test equipment used ( traceability) ?I'm just curious to see that they have used appropriate equipment.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 07:53:52 am
content: Quote from: andy_silicon on June 26, 2014, 05:55:57 amYou need to direct this at Toploser as he is the one who just used Pass.I bought my K2000 from Toploser but it was calibrated by Keithley themselves.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 08:24:03 am
content: Quote from: andy_silicon on June 26, 2014, 05:55:57 amYes it did, the quipment used and the date it was calibrated. They aren't NAMAS/UKAS accredited yet but they will be soon.

author: andy_silicon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 01:11:39 pm
content: Jpb - apologies.Toploser - thanks - out of interest what equipment did they use?( I have 3 K2000's which I might get calibrated )Perhaps this should be in the test equipment forum :-)

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 10:55:36 pm
content: Top Loser,I think you ought to question PASS about charging you extra for doing an adjustment based on thermocouple ranges.The following is a quote from the 2015 service manual:QuoteSo a 5% error on the thermocouple calibration is probably an indication of operator error rather than an actual fault (given that the voltage calibration is within spec).

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2014, 07:32:59 am
content: Quote from: andy_silicon on June 26, 2014, 01:11:39 pmFluke 7526AAgilent 3458ATransmille 3041A

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2014, 01:18:05 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on June 24, 2014, 09:55:23 amCalibrationneverentails adjustment, unless the instrument is out of spec. This helps ensure stability; the measurements that you had taken before calibration will be the same after calibration, and they will both be in-spec. If the meter is out of spec, then they will make adjustments, and of course you know that measurements taken before calibration were not in spec. If you get data with your cal, then you will know how far those measurements were out, and can decide what you need to do about that. Avoiding adjustment also makes it easier to track instrument drift over time. If you adjusted every time, you wouldn't be able to track drift, and wouldn't have as much confidence that the instrument is stable.