Poor Soldering Performance - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: RosePeach
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 08:47:20 pm
content: I recently got some new ChipQuik solder and I am having poor soldering performance when using flux. While using the solder some black residue starts to build up around the pins. It's almost like the solder is producing ash or is burning something. While using the solder it produces a different odor that smells like something is burning. I have included pictures of everything I am using.

author: LaryPant
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:08:19 pm
content: Hi,The residue looks quite nasty, but it is most likely due to the flux pen.The Kester flux pen that you are using does unfortunately require cleaning of the PCB after soldering. This is because the residue left behind by the flux is both conductive and corrosive, besides looking terrible.According to the datasheet:https://www.kester.com/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/API/Entries/Download?Command=Core_Download&EntryId=4113&language=en-US&PortalId=0&TabId=96. This particular flux can be cleaned with slightly warm and low mineral count tap water, see datasheet.For the next time, I would highly recommend to buy flux pens with the "No-Clean" attribute as they don't require cleaning, but you should be warned that they can leave behind a slightly sticky layer, which often looks a bit unfriendly under a microscope, but it can be wiped away with alcohol - I can't remember which type right now. But to the naked eye the solder joints look perfect and there is no need to remove it, i.e. neither conductive nor corrosive.I hope this helps,Lary

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:16:41 pm
content: Not all flux is the same nor is all solder. Some details would help; however, it is quite common to need to clean boards after soldering. I use ZEP heavy duty floor stripper diluted 1:3. Two to 3 minutes in a ultrasonic followed by a water rinse, and you are done.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:24:22 pm
content: Try just using the solder alone, it is already flux core.Generally there is no need for adding extra flux when soldering through hole parts like this.Quote from: LaryPant on March 30, 2022, 09:08:19 pmYep, no need to clean is best.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:25:29 pm
content: What temperature?Flux basically is burning in use, it's decomposing fairly quickly (seconds to minutes) at soldering temperatures. The decomposition may also be part of its action (if the decomp products are active). Time at temp is what matters.Tim

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:31:09 pm
content: For manual soldering, that kind of solder is a nightmare. It's lead-free (as mandated today), but almost unmanagable. It smears and has a dull/grainy surface and structure.See if you can source eutectic electronic-type solder (60/40 or 63/37) with internal flux from somewhere. Most probably as NOS ,but it might still be available in the US as standard (I don't know your rules on NoPb/RoHS).I bought 500 g back when the RoHS rules went in force, which was a good decision.In that caseStannol Sn60/Pb38/Cu2. The best electronic solder I've ever worked with.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:39:11 pm
content: The TS is US based. Lead-free is not mandated here. Sorry, but I missed some of the images. I do agree that if you are using a flux-cored solder, additional flux is not needed for the original soldering. Additional flux may come into play when re-soldering or removing parts.Just clean up with a good flux cleaner.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 30, 2022, 09:39:11 pmThanks for the heads-up. In that case, my recommendation from my previous post stands. I hope it's still available.The TS will experience a completely different soldering experience. And yes, extra flux isnotneeded.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 11:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on March 30, 2022, 09:31:09 pmTo anyone reading this, please know that this characterization of lead free solder is a wild exaggeration. Is leaded solder nicer to use? Yes. Is the difference huge? No. I use lead free at work and it’s just fine.It is, however, true that lead free doesn’t produce as shiny a joint as leaded. But this is simply a cosmetic difference. The inspection standards for leaded and lead free solder differ because of this.What makes a much bigger difference, IMHO, is the flux core in the solder. Different fluxes behave very differently.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 12:31:16 am
content: Working with lead free solder isn’t a huge issue if you have the proper tools. IME, if you have hobby tools, it often turns into a “crank up the heat”-game that never ends well. If your solder station can output the energy at the rate needed to melt the solder, you don’t need excessive heat but if it isn’t really up to the task, well…Also, since TS is in the US - get some AmTech flux for the future!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 01:35:46 am
content: I can verify that the sme happens to me wih Chip Quik and it is normal behavior. Instead of the Chip Quik sticky flux I usually use my little box of Chinese rosin, trying to gob it on thick.Chip Quik is te least risky way to desolder some things, IMHO. Despite the mess it leaves. All bismuth containing solders do that. I think.Bismuth makes amazing psychedelic colored crystals.. in its pure state.. "bismuto"Quote from: LaryPant on March 30, 2022, 09:08:19 pm

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 01:38:51 am
content: Quote from: cdev on March 31, 2022, 01:35:46 am

author: RosePeach
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 03:02:27 am
content: My soldering iron is at 750F.The black residue still forms without using the flux pen. While using the solder you can watch black flakes form and fall to the board as you feed more solder into the iron. The black powder also builds up on the soldering iron tip.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 04:55:39 am
content: Is there a particular reason that you are using that solder and flux pen?For general purpose soldering, I default to these 'old school' materials with consistent, excellent results:Solder:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1Flux pen:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YL1D3US/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1Flux cleaning:IPA:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DNQX3C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1Flux brushes:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LXNQW9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1Normal soldering temperature: 700FNormal desoldering temperature: 800FThe key to good soldering isplentyof flux from the flux pen.

author: stormedcrow
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 06:04:37 am
content: Quote from: RosePeach on March 31, 2022, 03:02:27 amHey buddy, try to get some Amtech flux, possibly from Rossman or that Northridge repair guy since there are a lot of fake ones going around. If that's not possible then some 'no clean tacky flux'.Pens are okay, but what I noticed is that I get a lot of residue left, then the mass just gets hard and it is a pain removing it, heat, ethanol and qtips help there.Also, I noticed that most of the times it is best to just solder SMD components using a hot air gun, it looks way nicer / cleaner. If there's any residue left then just use ethanol and scrub with qtips to clean it up.400C's most of the times okay, maybe an overkill. Just make sure you use lead based solder since the lead free one's a pain to heat up.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 06:35:41 am
content: Looking at some of OP's soldering, some looks like cold soldered. It's not flowing well. Are you sure temperature setting is correct? What kind of tip are you using? I see the pins are gold plated. Where did you purchase that from? Gold has really good soldering characteristics. If they were sourced from you-know-where, they may be brass or something else.Since the solder is flux cored, more flux shouldn't be required.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 06:49:33 am
content: Quote from: RosePeach on March 31, 2022, 03:02:27 amThat is 400°C.. that is too hot...

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 06:56:24 am
content: Thesolder datasheetclaims its flux core is "No-Clean Water-Washable Synthetic", but then classifies it as 'ROL0' which is Rosin, low activity, halide free. This is contradictory as synthetic flux resins are usually classified with the prefix RE for 'resin' not 'RO' for rosin (colophony). I *guess* they've added synthetic saponifiers to the rosin to make it water washable.The Kester 2331-ZX flux is classified as 'ORH1' organic acid, high activity, not halide free. (datasheet linked by LaryPant, above).As a general rule of thumb, you can use any combination ofrosin(colophony) based fluxes together as long as you follow the cleaning procedures required for the higher activity one. Other types of flux can only be mixed if they have similar chemistry, which as the exact formulation is very much 'secret sauce', means you have to follow the manufacturer's recommendations for which are compatible.Stop using the Kester 2331-ZX pen and get some halide free liquid rosin flux for those rare occasions when you actually need extra flux.

author: palpurul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 07:46:58 am
content: How do you clean your tip? I tend to clean my tip everytime I solder a joint.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 10:43:17 am
content: Quote from: cdev on March 31, 2022, 01:35:46 amIt’s ChipQuik brand, but it’s not bismuth solder. It’s Sn99 lead free.

author: RosePeach
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 02:03:37 pm
content: The solder pen and circuit board are for a class I'm taking in college. The pen was one of the recommended purchase supplies. The circuit board was supplied from the class.I am not sure what my solder tip is, besides it fits on my Hako-888D soldering iron.I clean my soldering iron tip between uses with the brass wire abrasive sponge.

author: RosePeach
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 02:04:17 pm
content: I did buy a syringe of flux from Rossman but, I found it hard to use since the plunger doesn't quite fit into the syringe body.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 02:39:22 pm
content: If it's an all plastic syringe like in attached, the plungers are tight and deform the barrel very slightly. If it has a rubber tipped plunger, the foregoing may not apply.I use all plastic versions. If you let them sit for a long time, the deformation is obvious. Nevertheless, they still work but will tend to squirt a little as the plunger releases from the indent. That is most obvious when they are used for something with low viscosity. For solder paste, it has not been a problem, but for a low-viscosity liquid flux, it could be. I assume paste flux would be something in between those extremes.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 05:16:27 pm
content: As others have already stated - 750F is waaaaay too hot for normal soldering. Try around 570F (around 300C) which is still pretty hot, but not insane.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 05:57:21 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on March 31, 2022, 05:16:27 pmThat's for sure. (That's almost 400°C!)When you feel like soldering gets easier at such high temperatures, it's usually either because of a poor soldering iron, inadequate tip for the job, or poor soldering skills.Now to be fair, this type of lead-free solder can be a little hard to work with.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 09:54:39 pm
content: FYI: my FX-888 (not D!) is rather useless at 300C, and I default to 350-400C for leaded soldering on normal to heavy pads.The heater geometry is a ceramic hot-end that fits inside the tip. Conduction is through an air gap. The responsiveness is good, but far from perfect.Tip wear is low (using brand name tips anyway), and oxidation is modest (okay to leave at this temperature for tens of minutes). I do try to turn it down when not in active use (okay for hours, days? at 250C). This is rather awkward to do on the 888D's (or did they add an idle mode, I don't recall?). For this one reason (control knob), I would recommend WESD-51 over FX-888D, for those of you that happen to be in the market.A higher end tool, using cartridge type tips with integrated temperature feedback, will be able to run at a lower temperature, because that temperature is more representative of the tip itself. Higher end Hakko, Weller, most JBC (all?), etc. are this way. Also Metcal and clones, where the tip is regulated by Curie temperature (in effect: excess RF power is reflected back to the power supply depending on tip temperature).So keep that in mind; it depends on the tool.Tim

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 10:44:20 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 31, 2022, 10:43:17 amI recently got a big chunk of bismuth metal to see what its like for soldering by itself. Strange. It makes a chracteristic sound, which is I think caused by the partial melting. Maybe squeaky?I prefer the Chip Quik preformed solder shaped solder. I do think its the safest way to desolder.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 10:48:32 pm
content: I have decided that I dislike the 888D user interface.I think I would prefer an old style 888. With a plain temp dial.. Like my old 939 clone but with the faster 888 response.. and tips..What do people have their 888 presets set to?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 10:54:36 pm
content: I power my iron via an extension cord box that uses a hot tub timer so that ifdI forget it iit turns itself off after 15 minutes or so.(typical amount of time my quarter turn of the knob buys me)Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 31, 2022, 09:54:39 pm

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2024, 05:28:07 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on March 31, 2022, 06:56:24 amFYI, the current version of the datasheet, copyright 2023, classifies it as REL0. So chances are ROL0 was a typo in the 2022 datasheet.