my first pc build - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 05:50:23 pm
content: So what do you guys think about this buildhttp://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/rMfcD3, i already have an external 3TB hard drive that im using.So then i would just stick the OS on the 120gb SSD and a few average programs.As i said what are your guy's opinions

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 05:53:53 pm
content: I don't have any experience with that motherboard but the rest looks good.I take it that cost is a major factor, and the reason for the processor choice.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 05:58:26 pm
content: yes

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:06:43 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 24, 2015, 05:58:26 pmIt looks good to me I am assuming you are going to be using it for general stuff like email web browsing, medium number brunching, Watching videos that kind of stuff...

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:22:44 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on September 24, 2015, 06:06:43 pmAnd any games i can.I may overclock it a bit, and i can always get an graphics card later on.

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:40:48 pm
content: With Intel® HD Graphics you will be restricted in terms of graphics. You can probably get by in games such as League of Legends and the like (on lowest settings). If you want to be able to run games OK you really need to get a properly clocked graphics card. Something like750TIwil get you very far

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 09:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 24, 2015, 06:22:44 pmI wouldn't count on it being capable of playing any of the high test shooters driving or flight sim games.The good news is; for $200.00 US you can find a video card that will allow you to play many of those games, if not most with playable results.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 04:57:03 am
content: Wow. You somehow managed to hit my mark of "never build a computer with a cpu with a CPU Mark less than 4000", that CPU is exactly 4000 on the CPUMARK.Though I think you can find that CPU cheaper. I checked newegg and found it for $69 by just googling for it.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:05:46 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 25, 2015, 04:57:03 amOP is in Canada. The 69.99 price on newegg.com is USD.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117374The CDN to USD exchange rate is terrible for us Canucks right now. $1 CDN = 75 cents USD.On newegg.ca, it is $87.99http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117374PS. I can't believe 10% of this build budget is going to pay for shipping.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:11:15 am
content: I might consider trying for one of the Haswell Refresh i3 processors since you get the better graphics and 2 threads per core. It might be worth the extra few bucks.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)#Haswell_Refresh

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:13:09 am
content: I just looked at one of the Broadwell I5 and I7 processors that the board should be able to take.. 128MB of L4 cache!

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:20:16 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 25, 2015, 04:57:03 amI'm not sure if this is relevant, but the Pentium G3258 is a superb overclocker as it is unlocked. Apparently you're able to overclock it to over 4GHz on a good heatsinkSource: MSI Press Release,http://www.techpowerup.com/202711/pentium-20th-anniversary-edition-g3258-reaches-6861-7-mhz-on-msi-motherboard.htmlHD Graphics are horrible though, it wouldn't hurt to get a graphics card too (or save up for one to add later).

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:26:29 am
content: BTW, I don't know why the OP started a new thread for this. All opinions, research, ideas were originally in this thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deciding-what-computer-to-get/

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 06:58:15 am
content: No need for a motherboard that expensive with that CPU. If you're not looking to overclock right away, the stock cooler will be more than good enough, especially up north. You can always upgrade later.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 08:57:40 am
content: when you build your PC, check your ram the second you get the thing fired up and OS loaded on.I'm not sure in other windows versions, may have to google it, but in windows 10, there is actually a memory diagnostic tool. Or you can download and run Memtest86 from their website. it is free.Memory is one of the components of a new PC build that I have had bad luck with, and often come bad the first time, and in some cases the second time it is delivered.In my latest build, I spent days trying to track down a problem with the new video card, as the errors that kept popping up while doing graphic programs (i.e. Solidworks) and games was 'OpenGL error code: 3' and thought it was the video card because of it saying Open GL....It is not, I ran windows 10 memory diagnostic tool and right away it came up with errors on the RAM. Getting it RMA'd right now, waiting on new to arrive.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 01:29:44 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on September 25, 2015, 08:57:40 amThat is a very good piece of advice, Windows seven also has that feature.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 08:26:24 pm
content: what would all you guys prefer windows 7 or 8.1. Windows 8.1 i think would be alright cause you can still use the classic 7/vista look correct.I've always liked windows 7, but then windows 8.1 came out and i only know bits and pieces about.Also that pcpartpicker isn't always correct for their Overview price totals i found.Has anyone ever used NCIX.com and their price match.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 08:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on September 25, 2015, 08:57:40 amWhy waste time loading an OS?!http://www.memtest.org/

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 10:19:40 pm
content: I have a Asrock Z97 Pro4 motherboard in my main PC. It is a good board but looking at the rest of your PC it seams kinda overkill. I am using it to run a i7 4790K along with a GTX770.As people said if you want to do gaming you should get a graphics card. Well judging by your avatar if you just want to play Minecraft on it such a PC will do just fine since its more CPU hungry than anything. These days if you are building a new PC that you plan to use as your main PC for many years to come its a good idea to get a CPU with 4 cores. If you are in to overclocking get a cheep haswell i5 and push it to 4,7GHz and its going to fly.As far as windows goes i have to say i only like Windows 7. I just don't see the point of getting Win 8 or Win 10 so far. But that's just my opinion, i'm sure there are lots of people out there that love 8 or 10.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 10:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on September 25, 2015, 10:19:40 pmyou wouldn't recommendOEMOS's vs retail ones would youAh i just like creepers a lot that's all lol.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 10:53:16 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 25, 2015, 10:42:59 pmDoes not really matter how you get windows as long as you have it, just be careful of the cheapest versions, they have a lot of artificial limitations. I am personally running Windows 7 Pro 64bit that i got for free because the uni i was at was part of the microsoft academic alliance program.

author: Kostas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 11:04:10 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 25, 2015, 08:26:24 pmDoesn't matter, both provide a free upgrade option to Windows 10.Ok, strictly speaking, I'd rather use W8.1, combined with Classic Shell. It seems to me they're faster than W7, not just at startup. And yes, I compared them at the same computer. W10 on the other hand can be used without Classic Shell, the provided start menu is good enough.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 11:51:27 pm
content: As far as I know, it hasn't been determined if all the spyware Microsoft put in Windows 10 can be completely disabled. Since there isn't much benefit to the end user from running 8 or 10, it seems safer to stick with Windows 7 for now.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 11:59:52 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on September 25, 2015, 10:19:40 pmI agree with nearly all of this, where I might differe is to have you hold off for about a month and get Windows-10 with the new update. A lot of us are running it in beta and it works well, well enough that I would say don't get Win-7 and for me that is a big deal. I still have one computer running win-7 and will most likely switch it over after the first of the year. At this point get 4 core CPU at least the fastest one you can afford.If you already have a windows version 7 or 8X upgrade...

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 12:05:54 am
content: Quote from: rdl on September 25, 2015, 11:51:27 pmAs long as you didn't install any updates since about July you might be fine. Those snoop-ware features have been ported to Win 7, 8X already in updates. Like I tell my clients, if you have something you don't want people to see, don't put it on your computer and keep it away from your smart phone, they are much worse. If you are really that worried then run Linux and suffer with its poor driver support.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 12:11:46 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on September 26, 2015, 12:05:54 amWould you like something to drink with your FUD?

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 12:17:04 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 26, 2015, 12:11:46 amI actually have quite a bit of experience with Linux, at least it has reached the point where the only thing I cannot do is play the games my roommate and I play online.That is an improvment over what the state of the OS was even two years ago.Until I took it off and swapped out my SSD for a smaller one my laptop dual booted Ubuntu 14X and Windows Vista. The firewall here is linux, and I always keep a bootable copy for the ocasional poking and prodding where one shouldn't on Win-whatever...I have had one flavior or another running here on something since 1994. I love the OS, I just wish it had better driver support.

author: Kostas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 12:24:23 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 26, 2015, 12:11:46 amHmmm, that's not entirely unsubstantiated. While the situation today is way better than a decade or so ago (for the most part a walk in the park), there seem to be some problems. For instance, quite a few people have experienced crashes attributed to nvidia drivers.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 12:25:24 am
content: I have run Linux on nearly every machine I own for over a decade. I have never 'suffered' from 'poor driver support'. Certainly no more than on Windows..Frankly most hardware works better than on Windows. I certainly don't have to wait while the OS ponders how to operate a fucking USB mouse.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 03:47:41 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 26, 2015, 12:25:24 amI have to agree with that, windows has a lot of overhead and performance suffers, but not to the point it becomes an issue on moderately recent hardware.In regards to recognizing a USB mouse, I have to take issue with that and would suggest the windows system in question has problems. My experience as a gamer has proven that not only can windows recognize a mouse fine and in short order but I have changed mice mid game and not lost a step.One of the issues with Windows revolves around hardware. Some hardware / drivers are more compatible than others. M$ claims their operating systems have been designed to accept a wide range of hardware; this statement is only true to a point. For example I wouldn't expect Windows-7 to preform very well on a single core CPU, as a matter of fact I know first hand it doesn't (P-4 3GHZ, 2 GB ram, Nvidia Gforce 200 series video card SB live) Linux will run that old machine just fine much better than Win-7. That machine by the way lived its last year out as a firewall until the Gigabyte motherboard gave up the ghost. (it was thirteen years old)There is no operating system that will be the be-all for computers, but Linux is a serious contender.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 03:51:25 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on September 26, 2015, 03:47:41 pmIf you've plugged it in before, sure.Plugging a new mouse into a system which has never installed a USB mouse driver before (laptop.) leads to a long wait for it to figure out how to perform a simple task, including it desperately going out to the internet to ask Microsoft "Is there something better?! It's a mouse but maybe you can tell me how to make it work better because I am dumb! I'll just sit here and not do anything while I wait for you to get back to me. The user isn't trying to do anything with it, surely.".

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 04:01:40 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 26, 2015, 03:51:25 pmMy Logitech G700 worked within five seconds of my plugging it in before the software was installed.It worked just fine as a generic mouse.I do wish Win-XXX had never used their registry that is the single largest handicap Windows suffers from.Linux, Apple, and IBM had it right by using config files.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 04:34:22 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 26, 2015, 03:51:25 pmMaybe an issue for older Windows but Windows 7 recognises even new peripherals quickly with one exception which is printers. Ubuntu can have a colour printer driver ready for my Epson in about 5-10 seconds, but it takes Windows about 3-4 minutes of downloading drivers and other stuff before it's ready. It's fine if the driver doesn't support full ink level measurement or have Epson crapware. Sometimes, I just want to print, quick.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 05:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on September 26, 2015, 04:34:22 pmAn issue with Windows 7.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:51:29 pm
content: I've been using Windows 7 since it first came out and I've never had any common peripherals take more than a few seconds to "install". I do seem to remember XP being slower though.I don't know why some people have so much trouble with computers. I know one guy who can't seem to figure out how to change when Windows Update is allowed to run.I always have all but "important" (security) updates turned off, but when I heard about the retroactive Win 7spyware"telemetry" updates, I started checking every update closely before letting it install. I probably need to do a fresh install anyway, it's been over a year.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 26, 2015, 06:51:29 pmI don't know how they rolled out the telemetry update to win-7 8.X they could have disguised it as a security update, and may well have. I suspect the day will come that if you don't allow MS and Apple to access your computer that after a per-determined period of time functionality will slowly start going away.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 08:19:58 pm
content: ok, yeah i actually have 3 computers in my household, 1: Windows 7. 2: Windows 8.1. 3: Windows vista.... I only get access to the old and slow vista laptop though so that is why i want to make my own desktop with an windows os that ialmostdon't care what as long as it is not vista or xp.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 08:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 26, 2015, 08:19:58 pmVista on a decent computer runs well.My laptop (dual core, three gigs of ram, and an SSD) works really well.Vista was under spec'ed in terms of minimum system requirements.MS tends to do that low-ball the minimum system requirements.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 01:03:28 am
content: so then retail OS can be installed on multiple computers(same key) right, vs oem is only one computer also without microsoft support.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 03:10:34 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 28, 2015, 01:03:28 amLegally, OEM can only be installed on one computer ever. Retail can be moved from one computer to another, but can not be installed on more than one at the same time.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 04:04:40 am
content: has anyone ever just taken an os off the internet for free.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 04:35:23 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 28, 2015, 04:04:40 amAlmost all the Linux users have.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 05:05:33 am
content: You can run Windows 7 in "trial mode" for free. You do need a copy of the official disk to install it, but you don't have to buy it. While it's supposed to be for 30 days only, there are built in commands that can extend that pretty much as long as you want, no hacks required.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:59:40 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 28, 2015, 04:04:40 amYes, I downloaded Win7 on a torrent site and run it.NSA put it there, with some 'hidden extras'So now they literally know about every button I press, and my mouse position is streamed realtime.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 09:13:50 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 28, 2015, 04:04:40 amYeah i have since the servers hosting Microsofts academic alliance website ware so bad at the time that when i tried to download the iso disk image from them it failed 2 or 3 times mid download. So eventually i just gave up and downloaded windows 7 from a torrent site, then used the serial number that microsoft gave me.(But if you don't already have a serial number the torrent will come included with a few that work)

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 03:47:00 pm
content: so some of you don't care if you don't pay for your license.you just find one that works

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 04:47:09 pm
content: Well i do have a valid license for it so its perfectly legal.But then again everyone on this forum is hacking there rigol scopes to unlock the extra features. Well to be fair my own scope probably has over 100 grand worth of options unlocked on it that i don't exactly have a license for.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 05:24:36 pm
content: I have tried to hack the hidden features in my Tektronix 466, Still no luck

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 05:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on September 28, 2015, 05:24:36 pmHave you tried using a older version of the firmware?

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 06:14:23 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on September 28, 2015, 05:58:54 pmI'll have to do that, as soon as I find the com port to upload it to.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:27:56 pm
content: Using a Windows OS downloaded from a random anonymous torrent is probably one of the more dangerous things you can do on a computer. It's almost guaranteed to be loaded with pre-installed malware and spyware that'll be so deeply buried you're not likely to ever discover it's there. Whenever it phones home with your data and personal info, home is certainly not going to be Redmond or Washington.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 01:48:07 am
content: Quote from: rdl on September 28, 2015, 07:27:56 pmWell i had already obtained an 8.1 pro Iso OS 32/64 Bit Free Official a little while ago and just need togeta key that works

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 09:14:20 am
content: Quote from: rdl on September 28, 2015, 07:27:56 pmNo, but that traffic to "home" is also monitored by NSA by default, so your data is secure anyways.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 09:23:25 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on September 28, 2015, 06:14:23 pmNo need for a slow com port , use one of these

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 10:24:31 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on September 30, 2015, 09:23:25 amJust for knowing, when I find an old 5.25 station and use a usb converter, do modern computers still read the floppy?

author: Kostas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 10:41:46 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on September 30, 2015, 10:24:31 am8 inch more like

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 12:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on September 30, 2015, 10:24:31 amAbout a year ago I went looking for an external 5.25" drive and none could be found. Keeping a computer that can read 5.25" disks like a friend does might not be a bad idea, if one needs to read that kind of media. .

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 10:17:26 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 30, 2015, 11:20:37 amit's the h97m pro mobo.Also after looking at the ssd's it does look like the samsung 850 evo is better than the crucial i had there.whatbrandof power supply would you personally recommend.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 10:30:17 pm
content: Antek power supplies are good.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 10:58:59 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 02, 2015, 10:30:17 pmI second this, have one in my computer and it works very well. Also Corsair, Seasonic, Enermax, XFX, NZXT...EDIT: also EVGA

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 11:57:17 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 02, 2015, 10:58:59 pmhttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026&_ga=1.215332755.503018935.1439426654is this one good

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 01:22:56 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 02, 2015, 11:57:17 pmIt looks like it's okay for your needs, but apparently the Corsair CX and VS series are not that high-quality according to this thread:http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2233411/corsair-cx430-good-psu.html

author: Armxnian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 02:40:46 am
content: I think the cx430 is a good psu for its price. I got mine new off newegg for a spare build for 20 bucks. Yate loon fan, nippon chemi-con cap, glued down components, accurate voltages. I've had about 5 different corsair psus over the years and all were great.Have had 2 evgas and had problems with both. First one, g2 1300w, output power even after pulling the plug out of it. Burned a d5 pump because of this since the psu powered the pump for 5 seconds after pulling it from the wall and all the water from my reservoir was drained and the pump ran dry. Need to add a relay or something to the outputs when dealing with large caps. Second and current one, evga1000p, has a non functioning silent fan mode. It claims that the fan doesn't run when the psu is under a low load. Well, it doesn't even work when there is no load. I was too lazy to return it though.Anyway:http://www.overclock.net/t/183810/faq-recommended-power-suppliesI'd take with a grain of salt. Read reviews on anything before buying.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 03:20:52 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 02, 2015, 11:57:17 pmWhat I do is calculate my power consumption and go with twice that.I don't really like to run power supplies close to their rated load handling capabilities.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 07:02:52 am
content: Im running a Corsair CX series supply for some time now and it seams good so far.As long as you don't use a cheep chinese supply that has a suspiciously low price. I seen those fail within 2 to 5 years. You find these cheep PSUs is most computers out there since places that make prebuilt PCs love to save cost on them, sometimes they are included with PC cases and a lot of people try building gaming PCs on as tight of a budget as possible. While yes that will get you the most bang for your buck but if i am already spending so much money on a new computer then why not spend just a little more and do things properly.Twice the required power rating is also not a bad idea since its not hard to do. A average gaming PC uses about 300W of power so not hard to find a 600W supply as long as most of those 600W is on the 12V rail where most of the load is(CPU and GPU Vcore from from there).

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 07:30:46 am
content: Well there's no point starting a new thread for this question so I'll ask here if anyone has got suggestions for an 'upgrade' from a GTX 690 for my gaming rig? I'm happy with the performance just not the power usage lol.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 07:59:58 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 04, 2015, 07:42:00 amTempting, but it's a lot of money when I don't think I need the extra performance lol. I'll only run 1 1080p screen tops, don't see the point of 4k as I don't like screens bigger than 32 inch. I'm thinking about a 4 gig 960 as it seems to just outperform the 690 and I'm guessing with it being 3 generations newer the power draw will be much lower...I'm also happy to consider an AMD card, I'm just worried about their Linux drivers and have had problems with GL support disappearing in the Windows drivers way back when they were still ATI. I'm not one to get religious over graphics APIs but decent GL support is a must. I don't think anyone's going to not support Vulkan well, especially ATI given that Mantle started it off lol.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 10:38:26 am
content: Well selecting a graphics card is mostly a question of how fat your wallet is. For modern games you want 4GB of graphics memory as for the GPU it depends on what your goal is. Running latest games with all settings at max at 144fps needs a way more expensive card(or should i say cards) than simply running things at reasonable settings at 30fps and 720p.I personally have a GTX 770 and it will still hold 60fps in most modern games with most settings at max. Right now you would be crazy to get one of those since the GTX 960 is amazing value for money. If you are not concerned by having the most fps per dollar and want some extra oomph the GTX 970 is a great choice. As for going for the GTX 980 or the Titan or any of those they start to plummet in performance per dollar. Yes they are fast but not really THAT much faster. If you have money that you have no other plans for then sure, but don't scrape together every last cent so you could afford one.As a general rule of thumb a graphics card for gaming should not cost much under 200 bucks. And usually needs to be under 400 bucks to be in a good price to performance ratio.ATI is fine too. They don't make as high performance cards but they often offer better value for money. I am just not as familiar with them since i am a bit more on team green(Nvidia).

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 11:15:41 am
content: Quote from: Berni on October 04, 2015, 10:38:26 amThat's sort of why I asked for some pointers, a long time ago I had lots of problems with ATI so just stuck with Nvidia, but things can change and I've heard ATI's drivers aren't anywhere near as flaky as they used to be, though it wouldn't surprise me if their long term support isn't on a par with Nvidia's but I'd be happy to be proven wrong and TBH Nvidia probably go too far on that anyhows. Money isn't a problem I just don't like wasting it lol.Thanks for the answers.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 11:31:44 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 03, 2015, 01:22:56 amI got 2 of them, both made noise from the start.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 01:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on October 04, 2015, 11:15:41 amWell if cost is not the most important part then id say just stay with Nvidia. In terms of power usage you really want the GTX 900 series. The flagship cards still use a lot of power but not nearly as much as older generation flagship cards while at the same time being much faster. But something like a GTX960 has a pretty low power use of 120W while still being plenty fast for the games out there right now.You might also like Nvidias GPU Boost 2.0 that you get from the GTX700 onward. What it does is automatically overclock/underclock the card to stay within a certain set of parameters. You tell it the maximum temperature, core voltage and power use and it will adjust the clock speed as high as it can without exceeding any of those. The main point of this is to improve performance for cases when games use the GPU in a way that does not make a lot of heat. When it notices that it increases the clock speed past "factory default" to squeeze more performance out of it. The card manufacturers give you tools to adjust these parameters so you could tell it to have a max 50% power limit and as a result it will downclock the card to perform at that power.Since winter is coming around those big power hungry cards are useful for keeping the room nice and warm.Then again i have a big boat anchor of a oscilloscope that puts out even more heat than that.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 12:58:10 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 02, 2015, 10:58:59 pmyou sayAntecpsu's are good,http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045&_ga=1.211852304.503018935.1439426654would this be good for my needs.i would probably add an graphics card sometime later onsince im in canada does anyone know if there is any big sale coming up onwww.newegg.ca.http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/vnLyCJ(hows this)

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 03:04:12 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 07, 2015, 12:58:10 amWithout a graphics card that would be good enough.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 03:15:10 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 07, 2015, 03:04:12 amwell what good graphics card could i get with this list in the future if any...?http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/vnLyCJor are u saying i need a higher wattage psu.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 07:22:30 am
content: A 450W PSU probably will scrape by if you don't put in a massively power hungry card like a GTX 780.But this supply has a trap in it that i thought was gone by now. It has split 12V rails. Usually you don't want that.QuoteNotice that there are two 12V rails. Usually the 2nd rail (Usualy has yellow wire with black line) is seen going to the CPU power connector. So this leaves only 18A for all the rest including the graphics card. It might work for low power usage cards but i know it would not be able to run my GTX 770 for example.You want to see at least 30A on a single 12V rail. If very powerful components are going in then even more(Like an power hungry AMD octocore CPU with a GTX 780 Ti you are looking at more like 50A).

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 08:02:23 am
content: If you're getting a graphics card, don't go for cheap ones like the HD 6450 (also called the HD 5450), R5 230, GT 210 etc. Their performance is horrible and it's honestly not worth getting one until you get into the ~$150 range.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 08:40:43 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 07, 2015, 03:15:10 amWhy would somebody that isn't a 3-screen-gamer want a graphics card with a loud little ventilator?I3 or I5 graphics onboard does a fine job.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 09:03:15 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 07, 2015, 08:40:43 amI agree with this, but it might be worth noting that Arcamax will be using a G3258, which is about 60-80% graphics performance of Haswell i3s.Source:http://www.anandtech.com/show/8232/overclockable-pentium-anniversary-edition-review-the-intel-pentium-g3258-ae/3

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 12:30:57 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 07, 2015, 08:40:43 amWell as long as you are playing old games or using the GPU just to decode video and such they do fine but when you run a modern game on it even on the lowerst possible settings (That usually look really really bad) it wont get to 30fps. As for running modern games on good graphics settings on a 1080p screen (Everyone has those now) it might start looking more like a slideshow where you can literally count frames. That sort of performance clearly makes games unplayable.While yes a GTX 980 is overkill for current games out there on a run of the mill 1080p 60Hz monitor right now, but graphics cards are expensive and you can't just buy the latest one each year again and again. So when you buy a graphics card not only do you want it to run today's games smooth as silk you also want it to run the games that will come out in the next 4 or 5 years. You don't necessarily need to run the game with all the graphics settings glued to max, but if you need to start really turning things so low that it starts to look like a low polygon blury mess that does not count as running the game as it was meant to run.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 01:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 07, 2015, 03:15:10 amLike I stated before you want a margin of overhead in your PC power supply I usually go for a hundred percent, but even fifty percent overhead is better than none.You can do this one of two ways.Measure your PC's power consumption after it is built bue before you buy your video card.Make sure to have the CPU loaded with something to do.(this is what I did for the last three computers)You could research what similar configurations consume and go with that.You could do what most folk do and get the largest power supply you can afford and move on.This is not wise since a large power PC supply that is lightly loaded won't be as efficient as a power supply that has some overhead.In regard to video cards you are best off following the manufacturers recommendations. on what their power requirements are. Some of those power supplies consume as much as four hundred watts. The card I aM CURRENTLY USING (AN OLDER gtx560 tI) consumes about 180W when I am gaming and conisderably less when posting on forums, browsing etc... Playing back video it consumes more.Someone mentioned noise;Thankfully noise isn't so much of an issne modern cards are smart enough to control on board power consumption add to that fan profiling and management software that many cards come with allow the user to have a fair amount of control over the noise generated by the fan / fans.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 02:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 07, 2015, 01:08:24 pmBoth CPUs and Graphics cards have a TDP(Total Dissipated Power) spec in Watts. Its supposed to tell you how much heat it makes, but since all of it comes from electrical input power means that its also roughly how much power the component uses in the worst case scenario.So to get a good idea of how much power you need you sum up the CPU and GPU rated TDP spec plus add in 20 or 30W or so for the other components like the motherboard and drives. The number should be somewhere between 200 and 400 watts in most gaming PCs.Okay so you come to the conclusion your beast of a PC needs 350W to run and you don't give a crap about overrating the PSU, it was cheep, if it dies il buy another one so a 400W PSU will do right?... Nope, it most likely wont. Power supplies are limited to providing a certain amount of current. Supplies that have more than one output voltage like a PC power supply have a individual maximum current for each voltage rail. The way they get the 400W number they proudly stamp on the box is by adding up all the maximum output powers of all the rails. So in practice you can only get those 400W from it only with just the right balance of loading on the right rails. If all the other rails are under low load you might be able to squeeze a bit more current out of one heavily loaded rail but no where close to all 400W from just that single voltage rail.Historically computers used to consume the most power on the +3V3 and +5V rails so PC supplies are designed to put quite a few of those Watts there. But todays computers use by far the most power from the +12V rail. So what happens is if you buy a PC power supply that has only like 10 or 20% headroom what will often happen is that the 12V rail will get overloaded while the lower voltage rails are under little load.The simplest way to get around this problem is to simply overspec the PSU so much that it survives even if the computers pulls all the power from just one of the rails. This is why you see 600W or even larger power supplies in gaming PCs and why graphics cards manufacturers generally recommend using 500W or even 600W supplies with there cards. There is no way in hell you are getting a regular single CPU and single GPU PC to use anywhere close to 600W no matter how much you overclock it, but it makes sure none of the rails will overload.If you still want to put a small wattage PSU in there then you can still add up the TDP of the CPU and GPU and check the specifications if it can provide that many watts on the 12V rail(Vcore for both comes from +12V rail). If you have at least 10% headroom there it should work. Idealy you want to over spec the PSU by 50% to make sure its running happy and at that point you might end up with that 600W PSU anyway.So if you don't know what you are doing just stick to what wattage Nvidia or ATI tells you to use, otherwise do your homework to confirm the lower wattage PSU will work in your particular configuration.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 02:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 07, 2015, 02:36:18 pmSo far so goodQuoteExactly, In the case of the higher power Antek power supplies. all but the +12V rails carry one rating, the 123V rails carry their own rating and the combined ratings are what the supply is rated for, be weary of language like "up to XX watts".QuoteWell done

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 02:55:44 pm
content: Nowadays pretty much the entire rating is 12V (you really want a single rail, multiple rails rarely give you an exact fit).If you get an AMD videocard be ready to get a huge power supply. I got a R9 390 8GB because I wanted a relatively cheap card with lots of memory, but damn does that thing consume. I had a pretty good brand old power supply which was rated for 350 Watt on the 12V rail which I used to power just the GPU and it went up in smoke a couple minutes into running a benchmark (I spliced the enable signal from the ATX power connector to turn on/off the two power supplies simultaneously). Only the power supply luckily, turns out that GPU can use >500W peak.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 05:21:40 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 07, 2015, 07:22:30 amOk so then a single 12v rail psu is what i want, and is a 500W one good(this one has good reviews)http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438016

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 07:27:12 pm
content: That restrictive fan grill can't be good for noise (not that I would care, I put my PC in a closet).

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 07:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on October 07, 2015, 07:27:12 pmoh ok, does this one look better for the fan grill.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 07:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on October 07, 2015, 07:27:12 pmThe above mentioned power supply should be fairly quiet.The fan is mounted so ht pulls air in from the bottom of the computer is installed in a case that allows for bottom mounting of the power supply. It pulls in cool air from under the computer, the air is exhausted out the back of the power supply.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 09:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 07, 2015, 09:03:15 amForgot about that, because I always start with a I3/I5 to build something.The cheaper g3258 processor gives the ability to have a cheaper PC now, and a possibility to upgrade later with a graphics card, I guess.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 10:29:22 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 07, 2015, 01:08:24 pmAs a non-gamer, I had bad expieriences before with ventilators on graphics cards.I don't follow the latest trends, but I remember many were like 4-5-6 cm diameter.That's the main reason I now choose a big processor with internal gpu: They have a big fan, makes no noise.The same for the CPU: 120 mm fan.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 10:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 07, 2015, 10:29:22 pmI understand; things have changed, you can profile not only the video card, but all the fans in your computer.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2015, 12:43:18 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on September 24, 2015, 05:50:23 pmI recently upgraded from SSD120GB to SSD250GB.120GB was (just) too small for all my programs + recent actual data, so the hard drive turned all the time.Now everything is on the SSD, HDD turns only for backup or accessing archive files.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2015, 07:08:49 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 07, 2015, 10:49:03 pmYes setting up custom fan profiles is very important in making a PC quiet.My PC has 8 fans if you count them all up, but all of them are temperature controlled so that when its not under much load they all pretty much go at the slowest speed and because they are nice third party fans they are pretty much silent. A single hard drive is easily louder than the whole system combined. When its working particularly hard (Like running a game) it does get quite a bit louder as the fans spin up, but still quieter than a lot PCs at idle.I can't kick my harddrives out the door since im holding on to over 2TB of junk. I had the idea to build a NAS server but that never materialized.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2015, 09:05:01 am
content: Quote from: Berni on October 08, 2015, 07:08:49 amYes, like 15 years ago, click click Bios and some PID controlls them.Just the user interface has changed, you can use the mouse now.But a little fan with speed controller is no substitute for big fans. (with also speed controller/limiter)The needed airflow will be passed, little or big, but a 60mm fan will have to turn 4x faster than a 120mm fan (simplified)

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2015, 02:58:52 pm
content: My recipe for silence, no fan should go over 500rpm.PS. well that was my initial recipe, then GPUs became impossible to run that way without watercooling and then my recipe became drywall and long wires.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2015, 03:10:55 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on October 08, 2015, 02:58:52 pmLiquid cooling is perhaps the best way to go. Pumps can be quieted down easily enough and you don't have to use a fan and a radiator if you are handy with shop tools.My first liquid cooling PC project used a large enough radiator I could have left the pump unplugged and let convection do the circulation, the CPU under 90% load for a half hour would idle at just above 50C. With a low speed AC fan (all three fans in the case were low speed AC fans) the CPU sat at 5C above room temp. That made me quite happy, the only problem was cleaning the dog hair out of the radiator once a month. The fans were controlled by a modified Antek 500W power supply, the second power to go in that twelve year old computer, which was built in a highly modified Mini ATX case.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2015, 07:31:54 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 08, 2015, 03:10:55 pmI never did liquid cooling in a PC, a littlebit scared of the mess it could make, but I especially like the solutions I saw with a big cooling colon, without radiator and fans.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2015, 05:06:36 pm
content: I never really bothered with liquid cooling since its pretty expensive when you include the GPU in there (Just doing the CPU is kinda pointless since they don't get quite that hot)Doing air cooling properly can get you a nice and quiet PC while costing very little. Where watercooling makes more sense is when you put 2 or 3 high end graphics cards in there. At that point you might be looking at nearly 800W of heat just from those and that is quite a challenge to properly cool with air without making it sound like a vacuum cleaner.But i guess you can't deny that watercooling makes the inside of your PC look properly badass.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 07:08:12 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 02, 2015, 10:58:59 pmHow is Rosewill Psu's

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 07:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 19, 2015, 07:08:12 pmAccording to a senior member of another forum:QuoteSource:http://www.overclock.net/t/1090069/are-rosewill-psus-any-good

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 08:42:16 pm
content: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438014&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL101915CA&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL101915CA-_-EMC-101915-Index-_-PowerSupplies-_-17438014-L08C&_ga=1.178740256.503018935.1439426654Is this good for my build also with enough watts for future upgrading? Or will it currently be overkill

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 10:32:08 pm
content: Just a hint, PC Part Picker has estimated wattages for a build in the top right corner...So your build has an estimated wattage of 142W, without a graphics card. I like to derate PSUs by 20% to be on the safe side, so you have about 480-150= 330W for a graphics card/other peripherals, which should be slight overkill.As for the quality of the PSU, this forum thread (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1893583/evga-600b-corsair-600.html) says it's on par with the Corsair, which is alright.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 01:14:12 am
content: would a "hyper 212 evo" fit in herehttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811235037&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL101915CA&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL101915CA-_-EMC-101915-Index-_-ComputerCases-_-11235037-L07D&_ga=1.178740256.503018935.1439426654Opps i mean this onehttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147166

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 02:11:20 am
content: It should make sure the fan is pointed down.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 04:53:31 am
content: What are a few different brands of PC cases which are good.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 06:09:53 am
content: I use an Antec (Sonata), which is good.Other good brands include Corsair (again!), Silverstone, Phanteks (not as well known), Fractal Design, Cooler Master, EVGA (again!), NZXT (expensive), Thermaltake, Zalman and BitFenix (more obscure).Stay away from Aerocool cases, one of their models caught fire! (which isn't a good testament to their quality)

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 12:27:44 am
content: You think this is a good case.will there be enough room for an hyper 212 evo.http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811853003

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 12:49:02 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 21, 2015, 12:27:44 amQuote from: Arcamax on October 21, 2015, 12:27:44 amThat case has a maximum cooler height of 165mm (http://www.deepcool.com/product/case/2013-12/9_590.shtml)And the Hyper 212 EVO is a height of 159mm.Which means that it will fit.EDIT: This forum thread reinforces the idea:http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2343893/deepcool-tesseract-case-fit-212-evo.html

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 01:14:17 am
content: oh ok good that was a yes.http://www.deepcool.com/product/case/2014-04/9_824.shtmli think ill get this one off of newegg.ca then

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 01:21:19 am
content: Okay, have fun! I also built my computer myself about 2 years ago, still my main desktop now (although I wish I had gone for a better graphics gard for games). It's a great experience.Quote from: Berni on October 09, 2015, 05:06:36 pmYeah, some builds that people have made with watercooling are amazing. Especially with the hard pipes.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 01:46:08 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 21, 2015, 01:14:17 amoh forgot to show what i was thinking.http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/LHhnD3Also is that 500w psu good enough for me or should i go with the 600w (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438014&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL101915CA&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL101915CA-_-EMC-101915-Index-_-PowerSupplies-_-17438014-L08C&_ga=1.178740256.503018935.1439426654i have a newegg subscribers promo code)And is this gpu a good one.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 09:12:28 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 21, 2015, 01:46:08 amWhat is the reason you choose and expensive motherboard with H97m chipset, in combination with only 1 drive and the cheapest processor?I think H81M+better processor would give a more balanced system.My personal idea, based on my personal situation:If you choose a 250GB SSD instead of a 125GB, you can put nearly everything actual on it, and you only need another HDD for backup or archive.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 10:29:43 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 21, 2015, 09:12:28 amAgreed, looking again at your build, 120GB really isn't enough for today.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 04:51:10 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 21, 2015, 09:12:28 amOk i see, and basically I want to make a budget pc... a few things on the parts list were suggested to me.Be nice to over-clock the processor a bit and be able to upgrade other things in the future.i was going to hold off on the graphics card til later onQuote from: crispy_tofu on October 21, 2015, 10:29:43 amoh, well that makes sense. I also have a 3tb external drive

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 09:21:00 pm
content: You can get a good motherboard for 70 bucks and if its also an AsRock board it will likely have overclocking capability even if the chipset is not supposed to support it.(Just might not have as fancy OC features). Like for example the "ASRock H97M Anniversary" I have one of those in a home theater PC running a dual core Pentium. It was pretty cheep and does the job great

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 11:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 21, 2015, 09:21:00 pmwhat kind of games have you tried playing on your setup if any...

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 12:57:34 am
content: You're just lucky those are older games. They used to try a make games fit on physical disks (CDs, then DVDs), but now with digital downloads games get bigger every year. Seems the sky's the limit now. Would the new Wolfenstein even fit on a blu-ray disc?Doom 3, 1.5 GBFallout 3, 8 GBTomb Raider 2013, 10 GBShadowrun: Hong Kong, 13.5 GBAlien Isolation, 22.8 GBWolfenstein The New Order, 43.5 GB

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 12:58:46 am
content: I like flight simulation, and my Microsoft Flight Simulator X files are over 50GB!Talk about putting that on an SSD, I had to migrate it onto my backup drive for space.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 05:09:23 am
content: well then what kind of mobo do you think i should get.http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/LHhnD3

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 10:07:30 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 21, 2015, 11:34:45 pmBrowser flash games pretty much. The thing was never meant to run proper games since it uses integrated graphics. All it has to do is be able to decode all the common video formats in 1080p 60fps. Its being used to play movies, stream media, internet etc. Its built in a fairly small case with not a lot of airflow so its built to use as little power as possible in order to make it easy to cool with quiet slow running fans. But if i put a big graphics card in there it would run games just fine (The case is too small to fit a full sized graphics card tho)In my main PC i got a "ASRock Z97 Pro 4". Not a very cheep board, but i needed a full ATX board with old PCI slots on it for some legacy cards. I was working with a decent budget for it since it also has a i7 4790K (Still the worlds fastest x86 CPU in single threaded) in there and since that thing cost a lot i was also okay with spending a bit extra on the board. I reused an old GTX 770 in there for graphics since its good enough. Runs modern games close to max settings no problem.People often think of the motherboard having a significant impact on performance. While 10 years ago that was a little bit true, but now days all the important stuff was pushed inside the CPU. The RAM and PCIe slots are directly connected to the CPU socket since the main memory controller is inside there (Used to be inside the north bridge on the motherboard). What is still on the motherboard is the south brudge, that one just provides all the other ports on the motherboard like USB and SATA controllers and all the other little things that the PC needs to run. Where expensive boards tend to create a difference is when doing really serious overclocking. The Vcore regulators on cheep boards might not be able to keep up when you really crank up the CPU, this can make it consume way more power than any CPU that is designed to run in that board. If you ask me its not a good idea to run a CPU this hard all the time on a daily basis anyway, a sensible medium overclock can give you most of the performance without that massive heat output.Basically what i mean is that on a budget build its more sensible to put the money towards other parts where they might give extra performance like a slightly faster CPU or slightly better graphics card. If you want to have a bit of extra future proofing and upgrade paths like dual graphics cards and such while you don't mind spending a bit on the motherboard then sure. Just keep in mind that by the time you get around to getting a new CPU you will likely need a board with a different socket anyway, since CPU sockets keep changing lately and CPUs tend to have a fairly long usable life compared to how fast graphics cards become obsolete.Its a bit unusual to have the motherboard be the 2nd most expensive component in a gaming PC, but as i said if you think you want the little bit more future proofing it provides go ahed.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 04:15:21 pm
content: so what brand of mobo do you guys like the best

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 06:27:49 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 22, 2015, 04:15:21 pmThe last couple of motherboards I have run are ASUS,

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 07:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 22, 2015, 06:27:49 pmim currently looking for a good cheaper mobo on newegg.ca, anyone have any suggestions while i look.what i have on pcpartpicker alreadyhttp://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/LHhnD3

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 07:09:33 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 22, 2015, 04:15:21 pmI like Intel and Asus a lot, because they are expensive.I would never use them for a budget PC like you want, then I would just look at the dollars.You will not need the chipset that supports 6 superspeed sata ports and the whole bunch of features they list.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 08:18:25 pm
content: There are some cheap Asus motherboards.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006519%2050001315%2040000280%208000%204814&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&Order=PRICE&PageSize=90

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 08:29:53 pm
content: Just saying, but there won't be any space for RAM upgrades as all 2 slots on the cheaper motherboards will be used up initially unless you take them out... But I think 8GB is plenty unless you're doing really strenuous work or using Chrome with a hundred tabs open, so I think it'll be fine.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 09:18:30 pm
content: according to reviews, i dont know which to get...http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132052&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfohttp://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/LHhnD3im trying to make the prices work for me but does anyone still relies I'm in Canada

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 22, 2015, 09:18:30 pmThe reviews on that motherboard are slightly worrying... looks like the NIC has problems (but it's been fixed with an update), so you might be stuck without internet until it's downloaded... only a minor niggle.It looks fine for basic use and occasional gaming.Quote from: Arcamax on October 22, 2015, 09:18:30 pmYeah, we're just trying to help you get the most bang for your buck. Anyway, H81M motherboards are usually cheaper than H97M, so you can save some money rather than have features you won't use.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:25:34 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 22, 2015, 08:29:53 pmI agree about the ram.I am not really excited about cheap motherboards, I guess the good news is when they crash and burn you are not out much money. Just a personal preference.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:29:20 pm
content: Intel, Gigabyte or MSI for motherboards.Don't really like Asus -- too many prior cap & BGA issues. Had a motherboard from them with a known defective chipset fan, bad capacitors and bad nForce BGA soldering. i got tired of trying to fix it.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 22, 2015, 11:29:20 pmHmmm... that's weird. I have an Asus P8Z77-M and haven't had any problems with it... maybe they have spotty QC? The only problem I have is not with the motherboard, but with the support page - it doesn't exist anymore!

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 22, 2015, 11:22:42 pmOk i see, anyway i meant to post this linkhttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006519%2050001315%2040000280%204814%20600438202%208000&IsNodeId=1&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=280|13-132-052^13-132-052%2C13-132-042^13-132-042%2C13-132-083^13-132-083%2C1HD-0015-00005^1HD-0015-00005%2C13-132-215^13-132-215&percm=13-132-052%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B13-132-042%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B13-132-083%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B1HD-0015-00005%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B13-132-215%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 01:13:17 am
content: You are down to the point of deciding on which one best fits your IO needs.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:21:55 am
content: how many of these would support over-clocking cpu?http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006519%2050001315%2040000280%204814%20600438202%208000&IsNodeId=1&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=280|13-132-052^13-132-052%2C13-132-042^13-132-042%2C13-132-083^13-132-083%2C1HD-0015-00005^1HD-0015-00005%2C13-132-215^13-132-215&percm=13-132-052%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B13-132-042%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B13-132-083%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B1HD-0015-00005%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B13-132-215%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24hmmm idk... this onehttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132083or this onehttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132215both have some potential...

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:31:48 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 23, 2015, 02:21:55 amASUS H81M-KASUS H81M-DASUS H81M-EASUS H81M-A/C/SIASUS B85M-G R2.0Yes for all of them.http://www.asus.com/sg/News/0yYwfwL2ZA9CFAMK

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:34:45 am
content: will this cardhttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487024&AID=10657534&PID=3938566&SID=&nm_mc=AFC-C8JunctionCA&cm_mmc=AFC-C8JunctionCA-_-na-_-na-_-na&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-%znwork with both of these....http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132215http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132083

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 04:24:23 am
content: Yes, both of the motherboards have PCI Express 3.0, which means the graphics card will work at its full speed.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 04:58:44 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 23, 2015, 03:34:45 amargheach one has it's own positives and negatives, i can't decide which one to get.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 05:05:57 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 23, 2015, 04:58:44 amIt's your choice.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 05:23:47 am
content: pcpartpicker says "Some Intel B85 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Haswell Refresh CPUs."http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/RqXLZLis this a problem, and if it is not then then i guess ill have to get this one since it has two chassis fan connectors.http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132215

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 06:02:04 am
content: It could be a problem - looking at posts on other forums, you might need a working CPU (non-refresh) to upgrade the BIOS for the G3258 to work...However, the board could already have been updated, so it's a bit risky.Quote from: Arcamax on October 23, 2015, 05:23:47 amFan splitters are relatively inexpensive.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:54:02 am
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 23, 2015, 03:34:45 amDo you want to buy that now, or next year?Because we can fill up a whole tread with experiences about: Isn't forward/backward compatible, with a whole bunch of examples and exceptions.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:58:38 am
content: In my opinion you really want to have 4 RAM slots on any motherboard you buy as often you might find out 4 years down the road that you need more memory.As for the brand of motherboard it does not make a huge difference, just get something from a well known manufacturer and you are fine. I been using AsRock a lot since they tend to be good value for money. Also i love the fan control features on the newer ones. It lets you set up 3 different temperature vs speed curves for your fans and is capable of using the motherboard ambient temp sensor to control them (not just the CPU temp as most do). Really helps in making the PC quiet yet well cooled when it needs to be.Also yes AVOID boards that need a bios update to support your CPU since in most cases you wont be able to update the bios without a CPU that is already supported.Oh and by the way as a sidenote, large CPU coolers sometimes get in the way of the first one or two RAM slots on most motherboards. So you might want to be careful when getting tall RAM with heasinking sticking out of it as it. Its not as big of a deal if you got 4 ram slots if one cant be used but is a big deal if you only got 2 since you cant run dual channel then.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 08:23:10 am
content: Quote from: Berni on October 23, 2015, 07:58:38 amAnd then go search after a memory that matches DDR3, but also the latency numbers, and also: In 4 years buy 2 memory items of 40GB for 20 dollars to put beside your 4GB items??Or buy those obscure DDR3 xxGB things for 40 dollars where the actual DDR8 with the same GB costs 4 dollars.PC's aren't very communicative for this kind of things, I expierienced.Even if you do everything right, they sometimes just do "beep", or even nothing.Then you are there, all alone, with your expensive on-command purchase witch you can not return, useless.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:48:01 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 23, 2015, 07:58:38 amthis one looks OKhttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157547and is a little cheaper than the previous asrock h97m pro i looked at, reviews look good, but can it actually support overclocking...http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H97M%20Anniversary/

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 09:55:38 pm
content: There's mixed responses on the Internet. Some say no (because it's H series), while this reddit link:https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/3e5i36/overclocking_g3258_on_the_h97m_anniversary/says that you can overclock on the Asrock H97M Anniversary

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 01:27:11 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 23, 2015, 09:55:38 pmYeshttp://techreport.com/news/26650/asus-enables-haswell-overclocking-on-non-z-series-motherboardshttps://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/3e5i36/overclocking_g3258_on_the_h97m_anniversary/http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157547http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2589886/asrock-h97m-anniversary-g3258.htmlNohttp://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2500763/overclock-intel-g3258-asrock-h97m-anniversary-micro-atx-lga1150-motherboard.htmli know its my choice but what do you think.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 02:01:11 am
content: I think you will be able to, but I might be wrong...

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 10:43:50 am
content: Actually i went back and checked what is in my HTPC and it was actually a "ASRock B85M Pro 3". It was pretty cheep and does indeed support overclocking the dual core pentiums. All that i did to it is undervolt it to make it run cooler. At stock speed i could turn the voltage ridiculously low and it still ran fine.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 12:57:18 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 24, 2015, 02:01:11 amOh hey this looks promising.http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 09:54:11 am
content: After looking further into ASRock's support page, it looks like the H97M Anniversary does indeed support overclocking.The G3258 is supported after BIOS version 1.2 (released end of last year), so there's a 99% chance that it'll be supported out of the box.So if that's your final choice, go for it!

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 10:32:38 am
content: ASRock actually has a bit of a history of making chipsets do what they shouldn't. Like letting bus speeds to some components go higher than they should by some standard, putting a in sneaky bios option for some odd feature here or there, making boards that can do SLI and Crossfire on the same board(Back then it was ether one of the other)...I have another slightly unusual industrial type ASRock board that has odd things like GPIO pins, backlight PWM drivers, speaker amplifiers, LVDS display output etc But industrial boards tend to have unusual features on them.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 03:25:33 pm
content: hi, does anyone like team darks ddr3 ram...http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313533&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL102615CA&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL102615CA-_-EMC-102615-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20313533-L06A&_ga=1.174568230.503018935.1439426654i can even get it $5 cheaper yet with code.Vshttp://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428&_ga=1.174568230.503018935.1439426654

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 03:47:56 pm
content: I personally would spend the least money you can on RAM as long as it meets your capacity, speed, and latency needs. While I've paid out more for "fancy" RAM with nice looking but ultimately pointless heat spreaders before I've never seen an advantage in a system over value ram lines. In fact I've often ended up with lower latencies while spending much less.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 03:53:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on October 26, 2015, 03:47:56 pmso is that team dark good for the price with the extra $5 off in your opinion.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 11:45:34 pm
content: well then i think ill get thishttp://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/gCPX6h

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 05:53:38 am
content: Aaaaand the site's down.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 06:45:01 am
content: Okay, that build looks good to me.By the way, I think you can get that SSD cheaper by CAD$10 at NCIX.http://www.ncix.com/detail/samsung-850-evo-series-mz-75e250b-am-17-104175-1322.htm

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:37:11 am
content: Why that extra CPU cooler of 30 - 40 dollar?What's wrong with the original cooler?

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 11:22:47 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 27, 2015, 10:37:11 amI think the OP already has the extra CPU cooler, which is why the price listed for it on PCPartPicker is N/A.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 12:38:42 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 27, 2015, 10:37:11 amBecause the stock Intel one that comes with the CPU is crap. Sure it cools the CPU but its pretty loud, might not keep the temperatures very low and might not be the best thing for case air flow due to its design. Using a good third party CPU cooler will do a better cooling job while running significantly quieter.The stock coolers that used to be included back in the Pentium 4 day are quite a bit better, but still not great. Those ware bigger with more surface area and a solid copper core.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 02:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 27, 2015, 12:44:42 pmExactly my expierience too.Quote from: Berni on October 27, 2015, 12:38:42 pmIs this a quote from the promo of such item?Replacing stock with something that has a 120mm fan (or WC) can:-improve cooling, but do you have proof or even indication that extra CPU cooling is needed here?-reduce noise @fullload, but who wants to reduce noise of that when 2 video cards vents and PS are blowing fullpower when playing games?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 03:41:09 pm
content: I've never used anything but the stock Intel coolers since I switched from AMD 10 years ago. I've never had any problems and have some machines still running 8 years on. None over-clocked of course. Not much point in it for most people.I'm pretty sure no one has a better idea than Intel as to how much cooling an Intel processor needs. Spending an extra $30-$50 to "improve" cooling of a $250 processor is not something I would do. Others of course, will think otherwise.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 04:25:44 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 27, 2015, 11:22:47 amno i dont have it yet.Quote from: rdl on October 27, 2015, 03:41:09 pmQuote from: Berni on October 27, 2015, 12:38:42 pmso if i am doing light - medium overclocking. What is better, do i get the cooler or do i just leave it.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 07:42:18 pm
content: Well if you get all the other parts of the PC nice and quiet then that CPU cooler can become louder than everything else. I got my PC so quiet that the sound of a SMD resistor being dropped on the table is louder than the PC. My only problem is that i still need to use mechanical hard drives for mass storage. Threw out some older loud ones but the drives are still way louder than the whole PC, but most of the time they are spun down as they are not constantly in use. I wanted to make a NAS to move them away but i never got around to that.Of course the PC is not that quiet when running games since the GTX770 in there gets really hot, only way that would stay quiet under load is water cooling but i'm not willing to spend that much on making it quieter. But under full CPU load its not bad. I mostly want it to stay quiet when working, the game sound usually covers it up(or if its an older game the PC acts almost like its idle).As far as CPU heat production i am not overclocking the CPU but it already runs at a pretty high 4GHz stock speed and turbo boosts to 4.4GHz. What i did tweak is force the power limits up in the bios to let all cores turbo to 4.4GHz simultaneously so it is making a fair bit more heat than stock (when under full load that is). The contact between the die and the heat spreader on these 4790K is garbage so it will run fairly hot even with good cooling. So you do need to go a little overkill on the cooling to convince turbo boost that it should floor all cores to the full 4.4GHz.Before anyone brings it up yes i know you can rip off the heatspreader and fix that but this is a pretty expensive CPU that i don't want to ruin.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 11:22:09 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 27, 2015, 04:25:44 pmI never chose to loose days on overclocking, instead I chose to work 10 hours and spend 150 euro extra on the CPU.Guess who wins in time, money and benchmarks?Of course, if it's overclocking just for the overclocking of it, you might want to choose a setting that makes the CPU nearly melt,you might need a cooling element on R134a with an outside unit, like a split airco.The good part is: If you don't buy it, you don't have to buy something else, because the stock cooler is included.If for whatever reason you need it later, you lost nothing.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 11:32:33 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 27, 2015, 04:25:44 pmRight. I think the stock cooler is alright for light overclocking. I'm currently overclocking a locked (!) processor (i5-3450) and it runs fine (25 degrees on idle, 57ish at full load) at a modest 3.8GHz (from 3.5GHz max).

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 01:45:30 am
content: and i can actually go tootv techorbest buyand get it, ill just be paying a few more dollars for it.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 08:33:37 am
content: Also, referring to my last post, at stock my processor (i5-3450, locked!) has a 77W TDP, while the G3258 has a 53W TDP. Judging by my overclocking temps, you won't really need an aftermarket cooler for the G3258...Quote from: Berni on October 27, 2015, 07:42:18 pmI wonder if lapping is still a common procedure?Not that I'd recommend it, doing that is probably wasting a few hours.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 11:41:56 am
content: The Intel heatsinks I've seen have very smooth contact areas. Not quite mirror finish, but I doubt lapping would help a whole lot. Looking at a few I have on the shelf, I notice some actually have copper inserts for the contact area, others are all aluminum.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 03:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on October 28, 2015, 11:41:56 amThe ones with the copper heat spreaders are the way to go.I don't use any other, not since 1998.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 03:35:47 pm
content: I don't know about current stock Intel coolers and fans re overclocking but I've got over 3ghz out of a 2.2 gig Core 2 Duo E4500 and it's still whisper quiet after 8 years, 6 years of that heavy usage. But I also know that the stock coolers that generation were counted as brilliant and a massive improvement over older ones, maybe they've got worse :/

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 04:02:06 pm
content: The fan/heatsink combo on my 3570 Core i5 is much quieter than the one on my 6850 Core2Duo. I can't really hear it at all from 5 feet away. The C2D is several years older though and maybe it's gotten louder with age, not that it's all that loud either.At one time I needed a replacement plastic fan frame and it was cheaper to buy entire fan/heatsink assemblies on ebay than buying the frame separately. I think that's where the all aluminum heatsinks came from. I know the i5 and C2D both have copper inserts on the bottom.Apparently people will buy an aftermarket cooler then sell the stock one for almost nothing on ebay. They make good heatsinks for other projects, never hurts to have some around.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 03:31:31 am
content: ok well i think im going with this...

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 03:33:52 am
content: That Looks Good, and reasonably priced.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 04:35:47 am
content: Looks good to me!

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 05:43:51 am
content: To OP: Are you omitting the graphics card?

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 02:58:51 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 29, 2015, 05:16:47 amwell what wouldyourecommend?Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 29, 2015, 05:43:51 amFor now yes. (that card was an option for sometime later. I didn't want to spend anymore than $600 total all at once.)

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 04:06:57 pm
content: Quote from: Arcamax on October 29, 2015, 02:58:51 pmAt some point you have to call it and and hit the green button on the order. Everyone has a different opinion what what PC part is the best.Having an upgrade path is not a bad idea, but it is hard to plan right with how fast Intel sockets are changing and DDR4 is being adopted in to regular consumer PCs etc... In my opinion its best to just get the proper CPU since that dual core can start having trouble as a few rare modern games already don't like to run on 2 cores all that well. So the cost of this CPU will get "thrown away" pretty soon as you get a new one (Unless you have some use planed for the pentium). But hey that's just my opinion.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 06:12:43 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 29, 2015, 04:06:57 pmThis is advice worth paying attention to above all.When I upgraded after having a decent P-4 (one core) 3.0 GHZ processor I went directly to an i5 quad core. It has been worth the extra money and I am most likely set, CPU wise for the next three to four years.I wouldn't be too concerned on an upgrade path if I knew I would be in a better position money wise later on, and could afford to build a computer that had a really decent upgrade path.I do agree you are going to have pull the trigger sooner than later, maybe now is a good time to pull the trigger and hit the buy button.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 11:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 29, 2015, 06:12:43 pmYou sure got your moneys worth out of that P4 if it was in service for that long. And i wouldn't say you are set for only 4 years. I went from a P4 to a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Quad to a 4GHz i7 4790K. That Core 2 Quad despite being 7 years old at this point was still going strong. I never felt like i needed a faster CPU. The only reason i upgraded is because the motherboard started to slowly die on it while i didn't feel like spending money fixing up such an old PC. If it didn't die i would still be using it for a few more years. But since finances ware not an issue i decided to overhaul the PC to bring it up to a more modern spec. In terms of difference for going to the i7 there was very little. The old CPU ran games like a boss, nothing really was being held back by it. Where i did notice a difference is Java. Eclipse based programming IDEs that run on java seam to be snappier and the Microchip C compiler that runs in java could use all 8 threads to compile giant C projects at stupid speeds(Compile that takes 30 seconds on a laptop taken 4 seconds here).So yeah moral is get a good CPU and it will last up to 10 years.One good approach to avoiding a massive one time investment are incremental upgrades to an existing PC. I been constantly doing that so i don't even know what my current PC costs. Games getting sluggish? Throw in a new graphics card for 200 bucks and away you go. Only one that hits you hard is a CPU swap as it causes a domino effect. Usually to fit in a new CPU you need a new motherboard that supports it and since so much time has passed that new motherboard will need the fancy new type of DDR memory so you need to buy whole new RAM again. As for the old parts you pull out, keep them in a box in case your PC dies so you can resurrect it while you eventually buy a proper replacement. Having a box of old PC parts is also incredibly useful when troubleshooting other PCs by having parts to swap out to narrow down the issue. Here or there you might be able to sell the old obsolete part to a friend who bought in his ancient PC with a dead AGP graphics card in it for you to fix.(Its ridiculous what ancient museum pecis of computers people still use)

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2015, 04:02:48 am
content: Quote from: Berni on October 29, 2015, 11:14:56 pmI built that computer in 1999,In 2003 I upgraded the graphics card and maxed out the memory.2006 I put it in a new case, the smallest case I could get away with that would take an ATX motherboard. Just barely larger than a mini ATX.. With some custom metal work I stuffed a waterblock, radiator and pump in the case, with three 115V low speed high volume fans.I bought a brand new Antec 500W power supply opened it up and installed a solid state relay and mains fuse for the fans. Finally in 2012 for my birthday I purchased the last item for the new computer and moved all my data over to a new computer and new OS.I had an MSI motherboard that was overclockable, and it ran really well, it was the last of the AGP boards, I had a good graphics card and when that was becoming obsolete I started saving for the new machine.This computer is due for a graphics card upgrade but not for my birthday this year.I have three projects that need finished and now I have to shell out bucks for a new hand piece for my soldering station. So there goes part the money for the graphics card.Besides.....My roommate's computer needs a HD upgrade (SSD)The Dogs and I built her a new computer last year for birthday and Christmas.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2015, 08:13:45 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 30, 2015, 04:02:48 amWatercooling i never done since it seamed quite expensive for the little gain it provides. It shows more difference in heavy overclocking.The case i did change to a new one on this i7 overhaul. I mostly did that because the old case did not provide enough ventilation when i installed a new GTX 770 graphics card in it that has a pretty high TDP. The side panel of the case was not just warm but hot in that area. I tried to fix it by adding a freestanding fan to push the hot air away and up where it could get exhausted out but it didn't help that much, its possible all this heat is what killed my motherboard. The new case i made sure was big since i had things constantly in the way when installing things like large graphics cards or giant cpu coolers. Only creative thing in it is a DIY fan spliter made out of perfboard, painted black and glued to the inside of the case. I used a lot of large low speed case fans to make the case well ventilated without making noise so i ran out of fan headers on my motherboard. I wanted them all speed controlled so they can be speed up from the normal super slow speed if things get hot in there.There was more creativity in the home theater PC build where i had a small case to work with, yet i also stuffed a 5.1 speaker amp in there. The ATX PSU is modded to provide a 220V output inside the case, a large 300W passively cooled PSU module steeped that down to 24V and was modded to turn on when it sees the PCs main 5V rail as well as provide a power sequenced mute signal to the amplifier to eliminate any pops or clicks during power up/down. Audio being provided by a PCIe sound card that was modded to send its audio over internal cables to the amp. Speaker outputs provided on the back of the case, hard drive cage was thrown out to make room for the amp, holes drilled all over the place to screw things down. hard drive ended up on the optical drive mounting flange by drilling extra holes in it, air ducting was put in to make sure all of this gets cooled in such a small case with not many ventilation holes. I was forced to use small 80mm fans but with a bit of fan curve tweaking i got it quiet enough for the living room. Most components in there had there warranty voided in the process, but in the end it worked.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2015, 03:57:43 pm
content: Nice Case mod.The reason for watercooling that PC was to minimize the thermal stresses around the CPU socket. That Pendium-4 ran hotter than hell. Under normal operation the CPU water temp was less than five degrees above ambient temp. If the pump failed the max temp rise no more than thirty degrees above ambient with seventy five percent CPU utilization. The motherboard BIOS was set to shut down the machine at 60C.The idea was to make the machine last as long as possible, The motherboard did begin to develop a problem in 2012, the main power connector had developed an intermittent in one of the paralleled up +5 or ground leads. and under heavy load would crash.I was able to isolate it to that point and never attempted to repair it, since it was likely a sheered connection deep in the layers of the board in that aria.Can't complain, twelve years of service.I started with Win-2K then XP and ran for a while Win-7 Beta on that machine, I tried Win-8 beta and the machine choked. Reinstalled XP from an image and all was good again.

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2015, 07:14:23 pm
content: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201089Is this a good keyboard?

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2015, 10:16:18 pm
content: I don't think a keyboard should be that expensive, unless it's mechanical (which is even more expensive).Do you need the backlight? If not, I would suggest:http://www.amazon.ca/Logitech-920-002478-Keyboard-K120/dp/B003ELVLKU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446243126&sr=8-1&keywords=keyboardwhich is half the price, from a reputable manufacturer and similar in every way except the backlight

author: Arcamax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2015, 02:39:13 am
content: Ohh, i like this one...http://otvtech.ca/catalogue?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_stock.tpl&product_id=21135&category_id=402