The highway where trucks work like electric trains, can this actually work? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 02:22:53 am
content: The highway where trucks work like electric trains, can this actually work in mass?Take a look...

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 03:10:27 am
content: It would probably work in Europe, where everything is reasonably close. This will not make sense in the US.It will not work in the cities, since everyone is working towards hiding the overhead wiring, so nobody would approve building that. But it should be possible to pull this to a warehouse outside of the city and have something less ugly drive around the city.In general, it is one of the less stupid ideas and might work out.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 04:15:32 am
content: Downtown Seattle already has overhead wires to power the electric and diesel/electric buses. I don't think they go many places a large truck would need to go though. On the highways it doesn't really seem practical, it would cost a fortune to install.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 07:24:40 am
content: In most places the costs for the extra overhead lines are not so bad. It would be a lot cheaper than the pavement and highway in the first place.It can however become tricky with low birdges and tunnels.The is a downside to overhead lines: they block the highway to overly high transports. These are rare, but from time to time there are oversized loads that need to be moved and the large highways are normally the prime candidates for such transports. For this reason many bridges are actually higher than the normal permitted hight. So those parts where the bridges would allow a cheap installation are those that may be needed for exceptional transports.With a railway system alread in place, I don't think it make very much sense. If at all it would need a large area installation to work - those small area tests currently running would not justfy building the special trucks, just for the local trafic. It's the longer distances that have trouble with battery capacity.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 11:27:48 am
content: It has one super advantage: it prevents trucks from overtaking.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 12:52:47 pm
content: No it does not, sadly. They simply switch to battery power or use their Diesel engine to overtake.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 12:53:43 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on October 26, 2021, 07:24:40 amThat was one of my first thoughts, what if some dumbass with a crane or dump truck extended, goes under it? Bzzt...Counter to that, the wiring is merely off to the side, one lane (at least what's shown) -- it reduces only the width of available extra height. So do underpasses, even extra-tall ones, so it might not be a big deal. Anyway, placement is all up to the civil engineers, they can look at tons of alternatives, both in design (the lane could be added to an existing highway, keeping the same minimum oversize width) and selection (perhaps prioritizing somewhat out-of-the-way routes, and pricing them more attractively).I'm curious how cost is logged. Do they use transponders? Surely they'd put license plate cams every so often, but that won't catch everyone. It would be a rather peculiar scam to equip an average car, van, truck, whatever with a pantograph... but if they can't find you, what would they do? Can't exactly de-energize a whole line for a few leeches. It could be segmented, and electronically negotiated (maybe put some AC-coupled comms into the line before energizing it, and the sparking noise drowns out everything else), but that would be a hell of a lot of segments to manage, vehicle-length only.Conversely, the cost could be externalized as a general tax, returning the surplus by making conversion kits somehow available to other potential users. (Would that even work, a 3m tall panto sticking up from a commuter car?) Eh, hard to make sense of such an arrangement, probably better to stick with subscription + enforcement.Quote from: Benta on October 26, 2021, 11:27:48 amNah, hybrids.Which means they can get away with much smaller batteries too, if only used for maneuvers and surface navigation, and can recharge en route.Tim

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 12:55:22 pm
content: As a kid in the eighties I had this idea to simply make the Autobahn from steel sheets and suspend some chicken wire above it. The the cars get sticks on the back and drive electrically. Like bumper cars. I should have persued that idea...

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 12:55:59 pm
content: Quote from: david77 on October 26, 2021, 12:55:22 pmYou'll needsteel-belted radials for that first. Hey, wait...!Tim

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 01:16:48 pm
content: The wires are ususally only over one lane. At least in the trial I have see this is the right lane and thus the 1st to see from any exits and connections. So an oversize transport would have no access to the exits where the over-head lines run.It would be easier if the use he left more lane for the electric trucks, but this would complicate other things, like get on an off that lane and to exits with faster trafic in the other lanes. Much of europe that speed for the trucks is limited to some 80 km/h (though they usualy drive a bit faster), while the cars can go faster. Things are a bit different in the US: it is a crazy feeling being passed by a large truck at some 75+ MPH (130 km/h).

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 01:27:22 pm
content: With bettery or hybrid, there's no problem interrupting it -- they can just stop short of the ramp and resume after.Tim

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 01:31:01 pm
content: They often have to take down signs and other roadmarkings for those oversized transports anyway, so I'd say it's no big deal to switch off the overhead lines and move them aside for a transport.I really like the concept for last mile transport from the rail station to a warehouse somewhere. For cross country transports the railways are obviously a better solution.

author: Just_another_Dave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 01:40:59 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on October 26, 2021, 07:24:40 amTaking into account the advances in multimodal transportation systems, the railway seems a better choice than installing electrical wires in all highways in Europe. I don’t think it makes much sense even in Europe either

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 09:09:50 pm
content: The problem with the railway is that it does not go everywhere.And it is virtually impossible to build new railway connections in central europe where there are none yet.The buerocracy is just to much in germany. Not only do you have to aquire the actual land itself where you want to build the railway. But you also need approval by virtually everyone in quite a wide corridor around the track, due to the noise a railway creates. That corridor may be smaller if you build walls against the noise, but those can be expensive.Germany is also dotted with a lot of nature preserves now. Those create an even bigger hassle. And if an endangered species is found near the planned route, well, good luck then resettling that family of hamsters.Just look at the hoops they have to jump through to build "Nordlink", the power line that is supposed to deliver windpower from north germany to south germany. No one wants that nearby. And thats buried for big parts of the line, so you won't even know it's there when it's done.So a new railway through germany? Especially a cargo railway? Will never happen. And it's not like anyone would even want to spend that amount of money.In that regard i find this truck test very interesting. Expanding an existing highway is also somewhat easier than building a new one or a railway, so if this works out it may be possible to add a separated lane just for those electrified trucks. They could even easily be self driving while on the highway, taking a lot of pressure away from the truckers.

author: basinstreetdesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 01:44:53 am
content: This system worked in downtown Toronto for decades. They were the standard "bus" transit system on asphalt roads there during the 1950's to 1980's. Also electric trolleys on tracks. They ran on 35V overhead wires. I remember watching as a passenger, every once in a while the follower would slip off the cable and the lights would go out. So the driver would have to put the brakes on, get out and pull on the spring-loaded cord tied to it to put it back on. Then off we would go again!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 02:04:04 am
content: This looks highly ridiculous, in particular in terms of maintenance, resistance to truck crashes (yes they actually happen, unless you live in a fantasy world stuck inside Excel sheets?), etc. Oh and what if there's a power cut on the highway? You're just stuck there? Or would the trucks still have gas engines just in case? Getting stuck on the highway happens - for instance when it's heavily snowing - and it's not fun. The guys in this case usually leave the engine on to get heat and electricity.Railway is certainly a much better option, and was actually heavily used for goods transportation in a number of countries. That was the case over here, until road transportation got relentlessly promoted - for reasons that would require other threads to develop - and now railway transportation is still used, but much less.I understand that in some countries, the railway network is not so great. But just think of the cost of this mess (and again maintenance and risks) compared to the railway.Oh, but to make this idea even more idiotic, why not couple it with a solar roadway?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 08:36:47 am
content: The trucks still have a battery and the ones currently used likely also a diesel engine. The plans are only to have the overhead lines on some highways that are heavily used by trucks, so the trucks can get away with a smaller battery.I still don't think it is a good idea - the existing railway system is more suitable and needs less energy and less drivers. It would make little sense to build if only infrequently used and only locally. It only works in large scale.

author: macaba
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 08:56:25 am
content: I think this fails KISS, particularly when there is a more convenient technology (large batteries without rare earths, charger power generated from renewables).If this system gets rolled out, there will be a move back to battery only within 10-20 years.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 10:07:40 am
content: The economics the guy uses in the vid doesn't instil a lot of confidence. Too many Hail Mary predictions in there. It will probably eventually be made to break even but not for the monetary reasons tabled.