Rigol DS1054Z Fan Replacement - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: andersjm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 01:44:28 pm
content: Hello forum!I thought I'd share my experience in replacing the fan on the Rigol DS1054Z. I know there are other threads about fan replacement, but not one dedicated to the DS1054Z, I think.Anyway, having good experience with "Pabst" fans previously, I went and bought an EBM/Pabst 512F 2. I wasn't sure it was going to fit, I just knew that the outer dimensions were similar to the stock Sunon. It turned out, it didn't. Well, it didn't have an identical screw pattern, but it was possible to fit it anyway.Link on digikey:http://www.digikey.se/product-detail/en/512F%2F2/381-2682-ND/5043858I used the built-in acoustic noise measurement capability of my Android phone.I put a couple of marks on my kitchen table for where to put the DS1054Z and the phone, so that I could do precisely similar before- and after-measurements.With scope off: 27dBaBefore(stock fan): 43dBaAfter(Pabst): 39dBaThe Pabst fan has a higher nominal flow, and is rated at 1.0W versus 0.78W for the stock Sunon. Hopefully, the DS1054Z can handle the extra current draw.The Pabst fan has the holes slightly farther apart from each other (1-2 mm). I used slender M2.5 machine screws with nuts, instead of the thick self tapping ones, and the thinner screw meant I could mount the screws slightly off-center, providing a reasonably good mounting.Considering the small difference in noise level, I wouldn't say it was worth it. But it's always fun to tinker :-). So while the Pabst can be made to work, I'd say there are probably better options.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 04:07:28 pm
content: The difference in noise level is almost nothing...The fan did not fit in well... and it draws more current...Would have made more sense if you would have done some research first on different fans, to find a fan that is a drop-in replacement and which has a much lower noise level.Now you have lost your warranty on your scope, and it probably does not look so nice anymore either, and in the long run might even damage your scope.. all this for a lousy 4 dBa saving.Why do you provide a link to a fan that does not fit and has no significant savings in noise level?Do you want to encourage other people in making the same mistakes as you?Moral of the story: don't mess around with your scope unless you first do some thorough homework and really know what you are doing.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 04:20:43 pm
content: The whole scope draws about 20w from the wall, if I remember that correctly. Why on earth does that thing need a fan at all?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 04:55:26 pm
content: Sometimes it's not the fan but obstacles in the air flow which create most of the noise. When I look for a quiet fan I usually look for computer fans first. If you don't mind fancy modder stuff you can get some nice, quiet and inexpensive fans.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 05:03:22 pm
content: Maybe this is a good place to start looking for a quiet fan:http://www.quietpc.com/casefans

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 05:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on June 14, 2015, 04:20:43 pmA lot of people have asked that same question. No good answer yet...Does it really need a fan in a normal environment? Where are the people with thermal imagers, etc., when you need them?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 06:18:02 pm
content: Probably half the power is used in a single ASIC, so that either needs a massive passive cooler or a smaller finned block and a fan.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 06:38:40 pm
content: Sunon are good fans. They have a range of different types (of different quality) within that different speeds/cfm per type etc. You can look at their data sheets to see the differences.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 06:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 14, 2015, 04:55:26 pmYeah, the fan is directly mounted to the sheet metal casing, with its airflow going straight through sharp edged cutouts. That's how they did air-raid sirens, should work on scopes also. Of course never ever use rubber grommets to dampen motor vibrations, they should be directly and effectively coupled to the device casing in order to maximize the aural experience of the proud new owner. Feel, err, hear the powerA "case modder" would just dremel that darn cutout section away and replace it with a proper wire fan guard. Any low rpm, low vibration fan replacement should do, given the low power consumption of the device. Mounted on some "Case Spätzle" of course, don't know the englisch name for them, they look like this:Is it worth all that hassle? Probably not. If things go wrong one day you'll bite your own ass if they reject your warranty claim

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 06:59:33 pm
content: Are noisy fans really that much cheaper than quiet fans?Rigol is aware AFAIK that their fans are noisy, and still they are not taking any actions against it?With their capacity in production they should be able to negotiate a good price on quiet fans, and even do small changes to the design on how the fan is mounted with rubber feet, and how the "grill" can be optimized to avoid noise from air flow passing through.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 07:53:38 pm
content: Once the fan is a decent brand name, which Sunon is the fan size, cfm and more importantly case/grill design are the main factors. Most of the 'silent' pc upgrade fans push less air, so of course will be quieter.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 09:04:43 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on June 14, 2015, 04:20:43 pmTry running at max sample rate for some time and then touch input BNC - turned on channels will be warm. 20W(?, I have not checked) means nothing in comparison if a single small part can consume few watts and overheat.Quote from: madires on June 14, 2015, 04:55:26 pmI my experience fan on on DS1054Z is of good quality and do not emit much noise. Butairflowdoes. Thus changing the fan will achieve no significant gain (possible losses from a bad replacement come into play). Airflow comes through multiple holes in metal/plastic cases, so no easy solution to remove sound via HW modifications exists. One can turn off the fan or temperature control it, but I would not do that on my scope. Also, there is a single fan in the unit with several significant hot parts, so how would you do temperature control?However, even if sound "purist" disables the fan, relay clicks are still audibleOn practical level, sound from DS1054Z is not annoying in pitch and is only audible in silent environments. Solution -> add some noise (open the window, add air con/fridge, turn on music or other noise sources, etc.) and you will not hear your oscilloscope.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 10:14:23 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on June 14, 2015, 09:04:43 pmYeah, that ~20W figure I mentioned was out of my memory, checked that on my own 1054Z a few weeks ago. But just to be sure, a quick retest:Yup, pretty close, no Alzheimer yet, 21 watts power draw with fft numbercrunching turned on. Turning on one channel or all four doesn't make much difference either, maybe 1 watt or therabouts. If I were Rigol I would put some really big honking energy-green-tree-and-worldsaver sticker right on the front of the boxbtw: aren't the frontends not cosily shielded in those silvery cans? They wouldn't get much if any airflow anyway... If the asic gets to warm, just throw a reasonably sized heatsink on that darn thing and get rid of the fan. Or at least turn it down. Turn it waaaaaaaay down...

author: mr.os
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 06:54:57 am
content: I replaced the fan in the scope with one of this ones:http://www.blacknoise.com/site/en/products/noiseblocker-it-fans/nb-blacksilentfan-series/50x50x10mm.php?lang=ENI'm not sure, which one, because I had them lying around.It's less airflow, but who cares? The outgoing air is not much warmer as before and the scope runs for hours without problems. It's now much quieter and it doesn't bother me anymore.I need other screws to attach the fan, but I think, this is not a real problem

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 12:16:27 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on June 14, 2015, 10:14:23 pmI think a fan-less design would make the BOM US$ 5-10 more expensive. Large heatsinks are expensive and require a proper mounting. The fan also cools the PSU, DC-DC converters and some chips which might become a little bit too warm otherwise (and would need a small heatsink).

author: andersjm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 10:28:27 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 14, 2015, 04:07:28 pmNo, that was not my intent.I did change the fan on my scope. I was aware of the risk that I might damage the scope, but I chose to modify it anyway. You do not agree with this decision, but it was my decision. Anyway, what is done is done and there's no way to change that.I tried to write a balanced fact-based post, sharing my experience. I know others have changed the fan on their Rigol DS1054Z, so I thought my post could be of value to someone somewhere, even as a "don't do it this way"-kind of post.Is there any part of my post that you feel gives a too positive description of this fan modification?I tried to write the post I wished had existed before I did the experiment.

author: tve
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 06:43:47 pm
content: Thanks to the original poster for starting this thread! Not sure why some people think that only posts about absolute successes are appropriate... I've come to the realization that I'm looking for a small handheld DSO for quick measurements because I don't like keeping my DS1054Z on all the time because of its noise. It's by far the noisiest thing around and I do get tired of the noise after a couple of hours. So rather than bu more gear I'm going to try and just fix the problem.

author: moya034
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 06:52:01 pm
content: The solution to the fan noise in test equipment is to have more noise in the room!In my lab, between the room's air cleaner, Solder smoke extractor, hot air station, and music in the background, fan noise from any test equipment is not even a concern of mine

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 07:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: moya034 on December 28, 2015, 06:52:01 pmI agree. In a sufficiently silent room you start to hear lights flicking, clock ticking, noises from other environments, etc. which can be more stressful than little bit of random noise.This is simply how a human ear operates - it adapts to current noise level and starts to hear sounds around this noise level. In an quiet environment it means you start hearing amplified annoying noises. The only real solution is to bring noise level up to hide these sounds under the "noise floor". This can be done with random (pink/white/...) noise generator or some other means.