Brother joined HP's ink/toner lock-in - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2025, 11:40:29 am
content: Louis Rossmann's wiki: Brother ink lockout & quality sabotage,https://wiki.rossmanngroup.com/wiki/Brother_ink_lockout_%26_quality_sabotageAnd his video:TL;DR: Disable the auto-update feature!

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2025, 02:14:44 pm
content: he should have got the cat to bite him on the cover

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 09:12:47 am
content: Brother denies using firmware updates to brick printers with third-party ink (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/brother-denies-using-firmware-updates-to-brick-printers-with-third-party-ink/):QuoteandQuote

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 09:27:40 am
content: I'm actually looking for a new printer.My kyocera mono laser/scanner is on its last legs, the laser mirror sounds horrible when it starts up.Already had to take it apart once and lubricate the bearing shaft that the laser mirror mounts on to stop it throwing an error at startup, Probably mirror not spinning fast enough due to vibration.Also had to edit smb.conf on server and drop the samba version to allow an older less secure model so it could save files to the network.I was looking at getting a Brother until i heard about them doing the same thing as HP.Seriously considering the Canon MAXIFY GX6060.Mainly becauseA) It's not HPB) It's not BrotherC) Canon seem to be doing the right thing. Making a printer that has huge ink tanks and refillable from a bottle of inkNot sure exactly how a move from laser to ink will go, but with ink tanks this big you get 6,000 B&W A4 prints and up to 14,000 colour prints per set of ink bottles. They're probable exaggerating a little but that's still pretty good.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 09:28:41 am
content: If I'm being a bit of a dick, that first statement could be because theupdatedoesn't brick it (but something else did).The second statement: ... but if some of our code happens to degrade the quality of third party ink by accident, we sure as hell ain't gonna fix it.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 01:58:28 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on March 06, 2025, 09:27:40 amWe have to wait how the Brother story plays out. If I would need a new SOHO laser printer right now I'd look for a Brother or Kyocera. Regarding inkjets, Epson EcoTank models are nice too.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 10:07:22 pm
content: I wonder how long the first open source printer will take to make.I tried to save everyone by raising interest in DIY microfluidics. Mastery of that will result in the feasible DIY ink printer.I feel like all the other technologies are well known and open source at this point, but they are hiding behind some arcane knowledge of micro fluid flow control. Its like a electro hydraulic nanoamp source equivalent.the eve of revolution is nigh, we just need to make those parts.I wonder what the tech tree looks like, I always thought my idea for scraping microchannels with diamonds might work.like land of the dead. its a little brainless right now because its mostly static structures but someone might get smart. The brains being catterpillar have been making tiny holes since the 70's in their diesel engines

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 11:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on March 06, 2025, 09:27:40 amIt depends on how much you print. For occasional printing, inkjet sucks. I have owned a few inkjet printers and all where rubbish because I need a few color prints per year so the inkjet printer needs endless head cleaning cycles before it produces a decent print. So I got a cheap color laser printer from HP. I don't really care about ink/toner lock in because I buy original toner / ink anyway. Always have; it takes me years to go through a toner cartridge. Everyone I ask has had trouble using the third party ink/toner and for me it is just not worth the trouble.

author: the Chris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 05:09:39 am
content: Quote from: Psi on March 06, 2025, 09:27:40 amIt took me about 25 years to finally buy an inkjet printer again, but this was mainly driven by wanting to make proper photo prints on my own and my own laser printer dying. I went with an Epson Ecotank system as it was on offer and I had made good experiences with other Epson products in the past. I have to say, it surprised me positively.I have it for a year now and took the advice to either print something of my own work or just the test print page about one time a month and did experience neither nozzle jamming nor excessive print head cleaning. Print quality is excellent and these large ecotanks finally make costs per page manageable.I bought myself an A3+ model and a standard A4 model for my stepfather and we both are very satisfied. If you print colour at least one time a month and have use for photo quality output, I'd say go for it. If you just print once every blue moon and have uses for waterproof prints, I would rather go with a laser again.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 12:22:36 pm
content: I abandoned since long time jet printers, as I don't print that often, and whenever I started a new printing session at least half of the time was spent with purging/cleaning tasks, when the ink wasn't just dry.I have then (since ~10 years) bought an OKI laser color laser printer. A bit bulky but always ready to print, plenty of 3rd-party toner solutions available (although every time i recharge a cartridge I need to also replace its chip), and no secret yellow tracking dots.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 12:44:11 pm
content: I was considering buying another ink jet printer for colour printing. I have monochrome printing covered with my compact HP laser printer. I was looking at the large refillable ink tank models as they looked economic to own. Sadly having read more about them, they still need regular use to prevent nozzle blocking and, worse, they still have an Achilles heel in the form of the ink absorber pad ! I found out that every time you switch on the printer it cleans its heads with significant quantities of ink. “So what ?” You might say, “I have plenty of ink” so can spare a bit. Not so though…..the nozzle cleaning ink ends up in the printers waste ink adsorbing pad and saturates it well before you have had a decent life out of the printer. The printer stops printing once the absorber mat is considered “full”. The absorber mat is, apparently, not user replaceableSo with large ink tank printers, you win if a regular user printing large volumes of ink over a relatively short period of time, but if you are the domestic user printing occasionally, and low volume, the printer will fail due to a full ink absorber pad well before your large ink tank design saves you the money you expectedDo check on line for horror stories about how manufacturers still manipulate the running costs and life of inkjet printers.Just search for “inkjet printer Ink absorber full error” to see all about this issue and how some people repair their printers.https://trueimagetech.co.uk/blogs/all/how-to-fix-the-ink-absorber-full-error#:~:text=This%20error%20indicates%20that%20the,to%20be%20replaced%20or%20serviced.https://youtu.be/a0Gr1Ke_OLE?si=ywUzo-nGuBUxQ3aRhttps://www.printerforums.net/threads/ink-absorber-pad-full-message.69143/Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 12:52:19 pm
content: Regarding the ink pad full issue…. Look at this statement from Epsom…..https://www.epson.co.uk/en_GB/faq/KA-01491/contents?loc=en-usBasically, when the ink pad full error occurs, Epsom consider that your printer has reached its expected end of service life and is basically e-Waste ! Yes, Epson may offer a “repair” service but it is likely not an economic proposition.They claim that this policy is intended to avoid ink spillage.Fraser

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 07:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 13, 2025, 12:52:19 pmI've thought about this eventuality, since I have an inkjet printer, a rather high-end Epson (Artisan 1430) that does a lot of jet cleaning each cycle.While they (Epson) say that the ink absorber pads aren't user-replaceable, I wonder if 1) they're available somewhere out there (or if there might be DIY substitutes for them, like some kind of fabric) and 2) how hard it would be to replace them.Years ago when I lived in the SF Bay Area there was a printer-repair place that would actually do work like this on laser and inkjet printers for not too much. Long gone, of course.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 08:27:19 pm
content: Waste ink pads and counter reset tools are available. You can find tutorials on YouTube.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 08:35:56 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 13, 2025, 12:44:11 pmMany of the more recent models have officially user-replaceable waste ink receptacles, especially in the non-entry-level models. Canon is especially good in this regard.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2025, 02:24:16 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 13, 2025, 12:52:19 pmyeah right like hp with non genuine, when it does some many head cleanups who empty the cartridges, and yes the head cleaner section get pretty dampand in the end the Office Jet Pro 7740 i had who costed a mere 545$ CAD was tossed in the bin at an incredible speed, the head jammed / dryed and other problems, i had blocked the fw updates thru the secret menu, downgraded the fw to one who accept non genuine ones ...now i've switched to monochrome, but still on an commercial HP bought at an incredible price, 23k pages on a 130$ toner kit, no fw updates, not the full hp software suite who can do some updates ...ciao ink and this one don't suffers the non genuine problem(s) ...

author: InductorX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 08:01:06 am
content: I had to print some labels for shipping, the ink in my HP inkjet "ran out", a complete set of official new cartridges cost more than a cheap label printer and the labels included. So now I have a thermal label printer

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 11:18:59 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 13, 2025, 12:52:19 pmMy Epson EW-M873T Eco Tank printer has a replaceable waste ink tank, a replacement is about 1400yen or so iirc.The printer has no DRM, cheap ink (2500yen for 6 colours at 70mL each) and the replaceable waste tank, good stuff. It did cost more than a cartridge printer though, about 60,000yen I think, but it's not subsidised by the overpriced cartridges, and will be cheaper in the long run. And no DRM.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 12:02:16 pm
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on March 21, 2025, 11:18:59 amFYI, known as the ET-8550 elsewhere.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 12:14:19 pm
content: waste ink tank can of course be removed and cleaned.after, reset the counter from the service mode. however, must know how to enter the service mode.also, if you try to clean the waste ink tank, the clothes you are wearing will be ruined. hands will be horrible.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 12:25:57 pm
content: I am pleased to hear that some printers use a replaceable waste ink tank rather than the large absorbent waste ink pad design. If I buy another ink jet printer, it will most likely be one with the large refillable ink tanks and a waste ink tankThank you for the information.Fraser

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 11:42:14 pm
content: Quote from: squadchannel on March 21, 2025, 12:14:19 pminvest in tubing of the correct diameter, and the right adapters and you can deal with any chemical thing neatly. its a skill and also a giant pain in the assI studied it some and I realized that the approach people take to dealing with fludics is like someone going after a bread board with mains wire they ripped out of the wall and aluminum foil. It probobly does not help that they are totally enraged by the printer manufacturer before starting work (i.e. mind on job instead of mind on revolution)Psychological state when you decide to do something related to a ink printer:

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 10:39:20 am
content: Quote from: squadchannel on March 21, 2025, 12:14:19 pmThis is necessary only for models without a user-replaceable waste ink receptacle.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2025, 10:14:38 pm
content: Isn't it like a form of stalking, harassment, entrapment and bullying from these manufacturers?"Now you CAN use your third party cartridge but this and that feature will no longer work as we disapprove with the cartridges you are using... through the firmware updates as the printers connects to the manufacturer."Stalking: A pattern of repeated and unwanted attention; . It can involve behaviors such asfollowing,monitoring, or makingunwanted communicationsthrough various means.Manufacturer presence to and in your printer via remote connectivity:Entrapment:To lure into danger, difficulty, ora compromising situation.Interfering remotely with a printer and the owner's ability do to things or feature set that they brought the printer with after being entrapped from an update and now has to compromise of only buying a specific ink cartridge where they can't revert back to or the manufacturer refuses to provideBullying/coercion:Manufacturer remotely interferes with a printer coercing the printer owner into buy things they didn't have to before or their printer won't work like.Harassment:Behaviour that annoys or upsets someone.The owner can no longer use their printer in the way they used it before due to changes the manufacturer made remotely while effectively "monitoring them in the background" through "unwanted communications" that changed their printer to work against a feature set they brought it with. As the owner contacts the manufacturer to undo what they just did, they exert their power, now you have the update, no <entrapment>, leaving the owner upset therefore <harassment>, and they tell them that if they don't buy their cartridges from now on their printer won't work <bullying/coercion> so now the buyer has to make "compromises" if they want to use their printer again.What do you think?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 01:32:13 am
content: it makes me think of the mob and like ghetto protection rackets. Like someone saying that you gotta buy your sauce whole sale from Lou's truck. Like if the chef suddenly one day suddenly got scared to cook with Divella after having a talk in a caddie car with some people that came in late one night.That update feels like it coerced your printers.I am pretty sure I read about this before, it happened 100 years or so ago in Chicago, where pizzerias started to malfunction if they bought the tomatoes from the wrong people.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 07:01:38 pm
content: "I'd hate to see something bad happen to your nice printer there ..."