Software for old Hamamatsu Photonic Spectrometer PMA-11 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Chefbastler
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 18, 2025, 05:20:20 pm
content: Hello, I have an old PMA-11 spectrometer from Hamamatsu. The exact model number is C5966-51.Unfortunately, there is not much information about this on the internet.I just found out that it has a SCSI interface to the computer and a cooled CDD, and can probably capture the VIS-UV 300nm-800nm range.Unfortunately I cannot find any detailed documentation or even PC software for this.Does anyone know this thing or have software for it?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 09:04:16 pm
content: Hi, did you try contacting Hamamatsu? I had good luck contacting their support for missing datasheets of old pmts, so it might be worth a try. Do you have a picture of the internals of the PMA-11?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 09:24:09 pm
content: I presume you have this datasheet, but might be interesting for others also

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 09:37:45 pm
content: Not sure what sensor is exactly inside, but you could try to hack something like this:https://davidallmon.com/pages/ccd-transmission-spectrographor use one on the many other projects that use the TCD1304 sensor as a starting base. Will be quite a bit of work, but I fun project to do!

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 01:05:54 pm
content: Hi, I have similar challenges. I own two Autronic devices since a few days, which basically are relabeled PMA-11 (SCSI) PMA-12(USB). You should also have a look at the Hamamatsu sensor head c7041, which might be pretty close to what is in the PMA-11 and PMA-12. I will have a closer look on this later. I have also a PowerQuest5 drive image of a computer with some software using the PMA-11, but I could not extract/restore this so far. I would appreciate, if we could exchange on any progress, here!If someone has access to a PMA-12, I would be happy if you could have a look at the VID and PID of that one. My Autronic shows up as ID 0661:0800 Hamamatsu Photonics K.K. PMA, and I would like to know if the PID is the same for the original PMA-12. It would be also interesting to find a Hamamatsu MCD, which is a interface and temperature control set for those kind of modules with USB port and software and API available for download. USB is easier to handle today, than SCSI.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 05:49:39 pm
content: I would suggest you contact Hamamatsu.About 10 years ago I had a cooling issue on a special cooled CCD camera for LSM with the resulting increase in noise floor.A few days later I got a response that the unit was discontinued years ago (and for most companies that would have been the end of it).However they noted they had contacted the division originally involved in designing the camera and found out the main contributor had retired the previous year.They asked if I was willing to let this person have my e-mail so he could get in touch with me. He did and provided me with all the information I needed.Kudos to Hamamatsu.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 08:29:19 pm
content: It's worth a try. Thank you for sharing that story! I've also one potential additional contact idea. I also have some positive experiences which remain positively connected to those companies for me:As a teenager, I had a slightly higher sophisticated multimeter from Metex (still have that actually) and it stopped working. Would not turn on. I send a letter to Metex (you didn't have emails then) and asked for help. They told me they would, if I told them, were I purchased the device and I did. It took a while so I tried to find the fault by myself and succeeded. But some weeks later, I've received a big letter from Korea (I think) and it contained the schematics as well as a flowchart for error-analysis. I've followed that flowchart in my mind and it would actually have lead to the error of my device.As a student, our Zeiss (Jena) microscope had a little defect. I've called Zeiss and they said they would call me back. Some hours later an employee of Zeiss called me from his vacation and guided me through fixing the microscope by myself.A little different story, but also worth mentioning when I talk about good experience with companies: My very first optical mouse, I've bought maybe 30 years ago from Logitech. It's in rather regular use since then, discolored and polished in several areas, but still working. No broken cable, no unresponsive button. Just doing its job.Such experiences have influence on my purchasing behavior. Also the negative ones, but let's stay with the positive ones for today!

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 04:59:12 am
content: Any teardown photos available? These are interesting units. Not that I need another spectrometer, but they look intriguing...

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 09:56:32 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on July 06, 2025, 04:59:12 amIt's not a proper teardown and if I've made the pictures for such, I would have cared for a better quality. But I assume they are better than nothing. CCDSpect-2 is basically a PMA11 with SCSI-interface while CCDSpect-3 is basically a PMA12 with USB-interface. Both have a 5V switching power-supply from which all other voltages are derived. Its 10A for the PMA11 and 6A for the PMA12. On the lower level is the CCD-Cont board and on the higher level the PMA-Cont Board including the AD-Conversion and Interfaces. The Sensors are cooled down to 0°C with a TEC element. The PMA12 ist a bit more compact and with passive cooling, while the PMA has two fans. The optics-heads are connected with a 20pin connector for the PMA11 and with 2 10-Pin connectors in case of the PMA12. Additional to that is a 3-Pin connection for the electromagnetical shutter on the other side.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 10:02:23 am
content: It's by the way interesting, that the layouts contain space for 15 + 9 pin sub-D connectors, like Hamamatsu uses them for their sensor heads c7040 c7041, since they have the pin-outs and signals published.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 12:17:27 pm
content: Thx for the pictures, certainly much better than nothing!Did you check the testpins with a scope? I would expect you will already see the optical spectrum on some of these (at the current default integration time). Cooling of the sensor will probably also work fine without a pc connection. Those signals would be a good start for reverse engineering.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 01:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on July 06, 2025, 12:17:27 pmDid not check anything with a scope yet. But I'm pretty sure where I could find the CCD-Signal: In the upper left corner of that picture you see a connector with a twisted black and brown cable pair and the print on the PCB for that says "VIDEO". The Shutter looks closed and I am not sure, if the timing generator is already running without initialization.What I find pretty promising for reverse-engineering is this document in combination with the subd -foorprints on the board:https://www.hamamatsu.com/content/dam/hamamatsu-photonics/sites/documents/99_SALES_LIBRARY/ssd/c7040_c7041_kacc1034e.pdfBut I would prefer to use the hardware as is and find out how I have to talk with the device using its USB-Interface. For the SCSI-version, I am not sure if I would like to use the original interface on the long term. Let's see which way Chefbastler decides to go. Possible synergies could have some influence.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 01:36:46 pm
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on July 06, 2025, 01:05:49 pmFully understand that! Certainly because the software of the PMA-12 looks quite capable from the datasheet. That set would make a very nice spectrometer, much better that a standard ocean optics device...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 02:42:59 pm
content: This might be worth exploring:https://github.com/GEECS-BELLA/GEECS-Device-Drivers/tree/master/HamamatsuSpectrometer/Hamamatsu%20Spectrometer%20Driver%20(16-bit%201.0.0%20Driver)https://sites.google.com/a/lbl.gov/geecs/device/device-types/hamamatsuspectrometer?authuser=0Not sure which spectrometers are supported, but worth digging a bit deeper I think.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 pm
content: Looking a bit further online, it seems the specu1a.dll is for the mini-spectrometers from Hamamatsu...

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on July 06, 2025, 12:17:27 pmDid some multi-meter and scope measurements. To sum it up: The footprint of the subd-15 connector basically shows the signals which are described in the C7041 datasheet. Cooling appears to be running, CCD timing also, probably at 19ms integration time. (Specification mentions exposure times from 20ms to 32767 in 1ms steps). Shutter is probably closed, but is suspected to be defective in my units anyway.1 mode: hi2 data: video 62khz 1.248v p2p6 start: 4us positive pulses @52.632Hz7 clk: mainly rectangle @250kHz8 eos: 16us negative pulses @52.632Hz15 trigger: 4us positive pulses @62.5kHzMeasured also a lot of dc voltages at different connectors as a basis for pin-correspondence checks.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:36:57 pm
content: The shutter seems to be driven by two separate 40-ohms coils. I would expect one to open and one to close it. In my unit both seem to be driven at the same time with about 3.2V. That does not fit well to the assumption before. But I see some chance to get the software running, so maybe I will rather wait to see how it is driven and how it reacts than speculating.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 09:11:26 am
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on July 08, 2025, 09:36:57 pmInteresting results so far! Thanks for posting your progress. What software are you talking about to get running?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 09:13:55 am
content: About the shutters, are you measuring the 3.2V across the 2 wires of the coil, or 3.2V between GND and the coil output? It could be a floating signal controlling these coils.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 04:41:53 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on July 09, 2025, 09:13:55 amOne contact of each coil is 70mV resp. 72mV relative to ground, the other 3.23V. I've simplified this to 3.2V.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:34:00 pm
content: Put an host-adapter into my PC and connected the CCDSpect-2. Here is the lsscsi output:Code:lsscsi 9:0:6:0 -l -L[9:0:6:0] process HPK PMA 1.3K -device_blocked=0iocounterbits=32iodone_cnt=0x36ioerr_cnt=0x0iorequest_cnt=0x36queue_depth=2queue_type=nonescsi_level=3state=runningtimeout=30type=3

author: lugaw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 03:14:13 pm
content: I have a PMA-12 and it has a USB connection. I am also looking for software. I have put it in storage since I couldn't find a software for over a year now.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 08:05:29 am
content: Here you can see the input and the output of the fiber-bundle, which converts a 1mm circular aperture into a slit-shaped aperture.

author: zxase258
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 01:08:43 pm
content: Here are some teardown photo of cooled CCD version of PMA-11.The CCD die is coated with a filter material, and the CCD model is unknown.Likewise, I don't have the software.

author: zxase258
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 01:12:07 pm
content: In the PMA-11, the shutter is driven by a micro-stepping motor with 4 wires, so applying DC power directly to the wires will not open the shutter.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 01:41:11 pm
content: Thank you for the interesting details! I think with at least three people having such device here (assuming that the thread opener is still listening) the motivation to get the thing talking on the scsi-bus rises. One alternative would be the development of an alternate PMA Cont -board with an USB-interface, but that's probably higher effort and beyond my experience level to get that running with good signal quality.

author: lugaw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 02:57:35 pm
content: This is probably the same family of sensor with built in TEC cooler.https://www.hamamatsu.com/us/en/product/optical-sensors/image-sensor/ccd-cmos-nmos-image-sensor/line-sensor/for-spectrophotometry/S7031-1007S.html

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 05:26:20 pm
content: I think it is probably one of the NMOS series based on package:https://www.hamamatsu.com/eu/en/product/optical-sensors/image-sensor/ccd-cmos-nmos-image-sensor/line-sensor/for-spectrophotometry/S5931-1024S.html

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2025, 07:37:03 pm
content: Hello, I can report some progress. I've written a program (linux) for the SCSI-version, which is able to read the detector and the settings. The startup-setting is 19ms exposure time and fetching a series of 3 spectra. What I can't do yet, is to change the settings. This also means that the shutter is still closed. But at least I can read some dark noise.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 02:54:30 pm
content: First light: Could open the shutter by SCSI-command

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2025, 10:37:58 pm
content: Managed to set the exposure time. Number of readings per call seems still to be fixed. First reading is often about 20% higher than the following ones (it would be even more, when dark signal subtraction was already considered).

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2025, 11:02:42 pm
content: When I look at the difference to the lights-off-measurement, the factor is about 2.04.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 05:22:48 am
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on August 04, 2025, 11:02:42 pmNormally, when you subtract the dark signal, doubling exposure time should double the intensity also.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 06:00:37 pm
content: I'm rather sure, that the exposure time did not change. The unit can switch between amplifier gains of 1, 2 and 5. I'm rather thinking into that direction. But that doubling of the first reading from time to time is not my highest priority in that project. I'm rather interested in putting a first realistic scale to the horizontal axis.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 08:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on August 07, 2025, 06:00:37 pmThose small 6 * 16 neon bulbs from Ali-express have quite a bit of nice spectral lines to do this, and you can buy 20 for 3$!Attached a measured spectrum with one of my spectrometers (should certainly be with a couple of nm), and a list with spectral lines. A perkin elmer wavelength reference contains something very similar.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 10:51:29 pm
content: Thank you. I've something quite similar prepared. But first build some adapter to mount the fiber on my optical bench and today started to clean up some code for my Ocean Optics Spectrometer to prepare "one software for all". So I the way to go is prepared. I only have to find the time. I'll send updates from time to time.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 10:06:48 am
content: I've bought 4 different gas-discharge lamps and mounted them in a POM-block with apertures that are on level with the optical axis of a OWIS SYS40 bench.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 11:04:32 am
content: Very nice setup. Looking forward to seeing the different spectra!

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 02:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on August 09, 2025, 11:04:32 amThis should be the 2nd one from the left.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 02:55:19 pm
content: The first one-still a bit over-exposed.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 03:01:39 pm
content: The third one.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 03:10:38 pm
content: And number four (to the very right).

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 05:55:06 am
content: Very nice! What type of gas is the 4th one exactly? That really covers a broad spectral range with very identifiable peaks. Attached a good paper to recognize peak groups for gas mixtures.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 06:14:39 am
content: Here is another list with useful spectral data sources:https://www.effemm2.de/info/info_specdata.htmlThe "McNamara_Boswell_2009.xlsx" for example has a tabpage "data lamps" with the spectra of a lot of commonly used lamps.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:30:45 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on August 10, 2025, 05:55:06 amGood question. The datasheet is very detailed on this. So not only Chinese datasheets are poor.https://asset.conrad.com/media10/add/160267/c1/-/de/000719535DS01/tehnicni-podatki-719535-barthelme-000810134-tlivke-115-v-230-v-konec-zice-modra-1-kos.pdfSo I think we'll have to find out by the spectra.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 08:40:36 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on August 10, 2025, 06:14:39 amThank you. You might also like this one:https://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/ASD/lines_form.html

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 11:20:30 am
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on August 10, 2025, 08:30:45 amMany of the lines will be Neon and Argon, with the lines in the UV region on lamp 4 probably originating from Mercury.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 02:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on August 10, 2025, 11:20:30 amSounds realistic. I did some first alignment with an eye-one display-spectrometer. Blue is the ocean, red is the eye-one, green is the CCDspect-2. Source is the left one in my box. I think it will make the identification of the lines a bit easier.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 03:04:39 pm
content: To perform a first rough alignment, I would just measure the spectrum of the sun on a clear day:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraunhofer_linesThey should get you already pretty close. The narrow band lines of a spectral lamp are then easier to identify. A 3rd order polynomial is normally sufficient to calibrate the entire spectrum, but I expect this is already done inside your spectrometer, so the wavelength response is probably already linear and in theory you need only 2 calibration pointsedit: should have taken a closer look at the image, your already quite good aligned and response is indeed linear.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 03:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on August 10, 2025, 03:04:39 pmThe CCDSpect-2 doesn't preprocess much internally, what I appreciate. It bins the roughly 100 vertical pixels, but you get one 16bit value for each of the 1024 sensor columns. Calibration data is stored and its processing is done by the host. I prefer it that way. It is fine if the polynomial coefficients are stored in the device itself, like it is done in the USB4000 by Ocean Optics.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 09:30:08 pm
content: For the first (very left) gas-discharge lamp, I identified 26 neon lines. My pre-calibration was less than 2nm off. So I consider that one as a neon-lamp.