proper floor type for casting steel and concrete hydrates? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 02:43:08 pm
content: What is the proper floor type to be used if molten steel is being cast?Is dry (heated) concrete OK or will it dehydrate in contact with the molten steel if there is a spill?Do you need to use high density firebrick just like the kiln walls or for a single small spill that may never happen will heated concrete thats degreased and laid out nice and smooth be ok?I was worried about regular fire brick because i though its fairly pourous and it might absorb hydrocarbons etc, I am not sure how clean it needs to be to prevent a hydrocarbon vapor pop that spreads molten steel, copper, etc all over the place. A concrete surface on the other hand can be pretty much polished to a fine finish and cleaned nicely. I was imagining a post-hardening stressed concrete slab using stainless threaded rods going through vinyl tube to load the concrete after its settled to prevent any cracking.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polished_concreteI don't think you can seal it, so you would need to embed heaters in it to get it warm prior to use to clean it of water.The idea would be to make a safe work area around a kiln which can be used to melt metal. And it would be covered with some kind of rubber matting material when not in use to keep it cleaner.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 04:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 23, 2018, 02:43:08 pmsand or dirt, accept no substitute

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 04:22:41 pm
content: are you sure dirt is alright? I figure it might have organic matter in it that can decompose and cause the steel to bubble and splatter.Sand is an option but its incredibly dirty. How thick of a sand layer would you need on the floor to work well?Can you make some kinda sand bag out of some sort of plastic material that is known not to bubble up violently so you can lay down a floor before you work without all the cleaning? Some kind of low moisture content fabric?I am guessing all these materials can end up spalling dangerously or are too hard to keep clean? If its not too thick then I can see some kind of sand bags working so long you are sure to wear soft booties over your kiln shoes so you don't destroy them. It seems reasonably storable if they are small.Working in a litter box is not really tolerable :-/.. you would need to make a special vacuum cleaner to clean and store it when not in use.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 09:21:25 pm
content: Green sand is used commercially.Or something equivalent to that: even more often, resin bonded sand, usually a furan resin, but waterglass (sodium silicate) can also be used.Green sand is >80% silica, so it is quite refractory. The remainder is usually 2-5% bentonite, or up to maybe 15% of a less sticky clay. So in turn, there will be a few % alkaline (flux) which reduces the melting point, but not enough to be a problem.Green sand sticks together because of moist clays. It must use the minimum amount of clay and moisture possible to hold its shape. It must be porous enough that the moisture can find its way out through the material, not through the metal.This is another good reason for resin bonded molds: there is no moisture, and the resin pyrolyzes quickly into less gas and a stronger matrix. The best reason of course: resin molds can be rapidly produced, poured and broken up on automated pouring lines (yes, high-output foundry has been CNC for a long time, as most industries have been!).I can definitely recommend you find a local foundry and take a tour. There is likely one within a few hours drive. It may be a small artisan studio (in which case nonferrous may be their medium -- Petrobond sand is often used here, or investment casting), it may be a smallish-turn industrial shop pouring iron or steel, it may be a full mass production line (in which case you might not be able to get a tour, oh well, keep looking).Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:53:31 am
content: your gonna make a foundary floor out of oily green sand? that would be a smelly and disgusting work environment.I am not sure you understand what I mean, I mean the floor you walk on between the furnace and the mold. The work place floor. I also don't want to breath special loose refractory mixture, pouring a bunch out then cleaning it up is gonna be pretty dirty unless you use some kind of standard mesh filtered sand.. that stuff is bad for your lungs.I just don't know the concrete properties well enough to make sure it does not de-hydrate the crystals when a pound of molten steel or copper hits it and make a big splatter which adds to unsafety in case the transfer crucible breaks, leaks, etc.I want to know if there is a reasonable solution to do this in a work shop that has the capability to cast but does not necessarily dedicate to it. Some kinda sandbag seems OK but its still quite a bit of a work out to put the floor down prior to working. If I need to build a beach every time I want to melt some metal its gonna be kinda crazy.The kiln-wall materials are fragile and its not suitable for a floor IMO. I wanted something clean and DIY. I am also interested in vacuum casting so working outside is not necessarily easy or desirable anyway because it looks like some serious hick shit if your neighbors see you pouring steel in a kiln suit. I am convinced the entire neighborhood property value would drop and someone might start playing banjo. Before you know it cars on cinder blocks are gonna be appearing in peoples yards, the mosquito population will increase and a tire shop is going to open down the street. I need to maintain order.I have seen this logic applied before and I got the feeling myself when I saw an area where someone decided to leave construction equipment out in the open rather then build a shed. People start treating the area as some kind of industrial zone. I am not advocating a HOA but I really want a neat indoor solution if at all possible.I would just put clean firebrick on the mold floor since its going to be on some kind of platform. Leave it covered when not in use.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 10:56:30 am
content: Oily, probably not. But a lot of it will get around in a Petrobond shop, I can tell you that. And that's not a bad thing.In a greensand shop, they'll most likely spread molding sand, or loose (silica) sand. Whichever. The actual floor may be concrete or pounded dirt, no idea.It would be unwise to discharge molten iron, or really anything melting above the boiling point of water (including solder, tin, pewter..), onto concrete.Sand is perfectly fine. It doesn't move out of the way, at least not from typical spillage amounts. It's loose, it's not terrible traction (if sharp sand is used in a shallow layer), and most of all it's safe.The problem with concrete is trapped moisture. The concrete itself, or the aggregate, or the sand, contains trapped moisture (liquid water). When boiled, this causes the material to spall (explode off in chunks). That's NOT what you want happening, when some very angry metal is on top of it.Concrete is unsuitable as a refractory too (even with suitable additives, like clean fine sand and perlite), because at a bit below red heat, it dehydrates, losing all strength. At still higher temperatures, it shrinks considerably (sintering with the sand component), leading to heavy cracking and weakening. Eventually it melts. Sintering and melting occurs at an inconveniently low temperature (about yellow-white hot), due to the high lime content.Tim

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 11:21:32 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 24, 2018, 12:53:31 amwhat do you expect? an air conditioned room with people wearing neck tie? try to get in line... you are doing something that can disintegrate flesh and bones..

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 11:28:35 am
content: i expected maybe materials engineering went further then litter boxi can't find anything about nice metalurgical research labs or anything, I don't really trust what heavy industry came up with to be the 'best' solution, usually casting is as economical as it gets and I am sure the entire industry will reflect that.I wonder if a infrared reflective kiln liner paste would bring up a concrete slab to survivability but you would need to heat the whole thing to cure it. maybe with a roofing torch. and a thermally reinforced slab.it looks like you would need to make some sand bags though.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 11:37:46 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 24, 2018, 11:28:35 amit did, but i guess fancy materials will not be economical other than sand on the concrete floor. one of the idea is to avoid fallen molten steel from splashing onto living thing nearby, and that requires something "not rigid" that can take the kinetic energy, meaning something that you can not stand on to. if this for small scale diy, i think you can get by with just normal concrete floor, but be ready for the shiny cement layer where you stand on to "pop" exposing the sandy conrete layer below. meaning you need to keep maintaining your floor finishing if you want your work place to look tidy. ymmv.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 11:51:27 am
content: if you look at how modern lab casting is done, you really don't have any splatter or anything like that. Some things will even have a ceramic solenoid under the melt chamber (i,e. vacuum induction melting), so that it is directly melted over your mold then a ceramic valve opens up and dumps it into the mold, so you don't need to do anything. Just monitor it from a far away EMO switch.The stuff you see on the youtube videos is very very very cost sensitive if you see a giant cup moving around around with a buncha guys in kiln suits running around the factory floor.It should not splatter or do anything funny in normal operation.I also don't know how the porosity gas diffusion of the concrete will behave in a small spill. Can it still explode from only a few pounds of material or do you need a giant thermal mass ontop of it to channel energy into it to get a explosion?I am worried the industrial guidelines for spilling 200LB of molten steel don't really apply to melting a few pounds.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 11:56:42 am
content: in my mind I had something like this (maybe with a interlock so it does not pour when a bucket is not installed) and not The Deer Hunter. Most foundary practices I see are cringe worthy IMO. Forklift driving around a few feet away from a buncha guys running around a 50 gallon ladle of yellow hot steel......I think people have a bad idea of how nice small scale metallurgy can look like.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:00:18 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 24, 2018, 11:51:27 amHave you seen vacuum arc melting, for example?You have much to learn, grasshopper...I know a few guys in Los Alamos using vacuum induction melting on...unspecified...materials. I didn't happen to ask if the material is known to splatter in the process, though. (Would imagine it was pretty clean by that point, though.)QuoteGosh, that's a big insult to the guys doing this for aircraft parts!Not like turbine parts, I think those are vacuum induction and some manner of freezing (growth patterns) and heat treatments besides. But anything that's not on the same bleeding margin, brackets, fittings, those can be made in very much this sort of way.QuotePounds? Ounces! Point a plumber's torch at the sidewalk some time and count the seconds to the first pop!Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:05:35 pm
content: i showed you a video of what I mean, I don;'t really care what the aerospace industry considerseconomical. You can easily make a sealed ceramic valve thats opened by a piston that breaks a seal for instance and do a pour directly into a mold. Pretty sure you can do a pnumatic pump too if you get the right grade of expensive alumina tubing to prevent any kind of gravitational mishap with a traditional pour valve.This I would not recommend though because the last thing you want is a molten metal spray from some kinda shady refractory pipe work but it COULD be made safe if you engineer it right, because you would need to pressurize the system for a pour and you don;t have some fragile ceramic valve structure at the mercy of gravity.I really think you are confused between small alloy research work and mass production here. I am not planning on running around with a hot crucible in some kind of crude lever system.It would just slow down work alot because you can't take a sample while its hot to adjust the alloys, but in a real lab environment you would hopefully check the alloy contents with XRF to minimize the amount of tuning you need to do on the mixture.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:10:18 pm
content: and arc melting occurs on a water cooled copper plate inside of a vacuum chamber where you move a long electrode around with thick gloves or even a computer controlled system. What do you mean? It's pretty safe unless you get a plate breach which is why I would probobly use remote robotics instead of standing over a drum.I would engineer something like a aimer for a pool cue for a remote controlled vacuum arc melt system, where you have two X-Y positioning grids and a single Z axis control to adjust the angle and depth of the electrode. Where the first grid represents your dominant hand the the second grid represents your non dominant hand which rests on the pool table. I think two joysticks would work nicely with a spring loaded foot pedal for depth.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:17:52 pm
content: Small scale, get a load of fire brick and build a constrained platform for the area with brick and a steel frame. Spills will splatter anyway, the brick at least will prevent damage to the underlying concrete, which is more important. Otherwise just ordinary brick tile, with a very weak bonding to the floor, so you can replace the inevitable broken tiles. Large tiles are easier to lay, plus you can get end of run tile as part boxes pretty cheaply, unglazed tiles and just keep it clean. it will be ruined if there is a big spill, but little ones just clean it with a spade, and carry on till you need to change the tiles from too much crazing. You do not want glazed tiles, and do not bother to grout them either.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:19:09 pm
content: yea I was thinking about one that snaps together with magnets and stuff so you can clear up the floor space quickly and stow everything away on shelves when not in use. if its tiles I guess you could just use a fine dense sand to fill the seams between them prior to use (vacuum cleaner will make quick work of a few cups of sand but its different then dumping a 50 gallon drum of sand into something).can fire brick absorb atmospheric hydrocarbons that will give it a problem from high temperature spills but not be handled easily by baking it in a oven prior to use? Can you get a (hydrocarbon vapor) steam explosion from that too?some heavier hydrocarbons have a boiling point of 500C so your not likely to clean them up by baking the bricks in an oven prior to use like the water vapor. I am just unhappy with how pourous looking the firebricks I have are. I thought maybe to seal them with some kind of kiln paste to make a smooth surface that wipes down. it should work so long you bake them out real hot in a kiln. Maybe you can polish them afterwards too to make them more cleanable.*tldr*is the thermal shock performance of firebrick compromised by its pourous nature and the (dirty) nature of atmospheric gases? how can it be mitigated for surfaces that will be exposed to thermal shock other then liquid-water bake outs prior to use?this might include storage guidelines and prep/cleaning procedures. Having to get an entire floor red-hot prior to laydown for a single pour would be expensive and annoying.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 10:29:23 pm
content: Buy these books:https://stephenchastain.com/store/they are excellent.Whatever you do, do not pour molten metal on concrete floors or anywhere near water. You can pour water on molten metal, but the other way around will kill you if you're lucky.Read "American Steel" by Richard Press to get an idea of what a molten steel spill can do.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 10:49:51 pm
content: I would check your expectations if you expect to melt anything ferrous. I consider pig-iron or cast iron much more difficult to manage at all points in the process than something like aluminum/magnesium/silicon casting alloys. Learn on those first. I have done a few aluminum pours into sand molds back when I was still a teenager, it is do-able on the hobby scale. There are numerous aspects that can only be learned through direct experience. Mold and part design, sprue placement, shrinkage, fluxing, lots to go wrong.I find your insistence of having a hygienic foundry exceeding humorous, it tells me you are not serious. While you may wish for an operating room clean foundry, I have always wanted a bevy of beautiful young women willing to cuddle-wrestle me all night long. I think we will both end up unsatisfied.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 02:23:11 am
content: If you want a foundry inside your shop, leave a hole large enough for the furnace and molds, fill it with dry sand. Then put a wooden cover over it when not in use.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 03:48:52 am
content: DO NOT pour molten steel on concrete. Listen to the advice you're being given. It might save your sight or your life. It only takes one accident. Fire brick doesn't have this "popping" problem for the exact reason that it IS porous. It's the trapped moisture in concrete that creates steam explosions.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 06:55:53 am
content: its a bad analogy because women leave their crap all over the place. if you are a clean person and date a beautiful woman you will feel like her momtry finding a women that will actually make a organized stand for her hygiene products, use the hamper or even get custom containers to hold the women things so the area is easy to clean. or have a 5S program in her purse and car. i ended up driving in a mobile dumpster.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 07:05:06 am
content: Quote from: eKretz on December 25, 2018, 03:48:52 amyea but what if you get something like some kinda heavy oil, dust, etc getting into the fire brick and turning it into a blind holes ? I don't like it as a shop surface because you can't verify if its clean easily. Something polished you can inspect optically prior to use without crazy procedures.Based on what people are saying you need either a separate area or a well engineered floor you police and deploy when needed. It makes sense to me as a kiln surface where it gets to refractory temperatures slowly every time you use it, but not so much as something you end up walking on.Can you take dense concrete firebrick, coat it with this stuffhttps://www.amazon.com/ITC-100HT-Ceramic-Reflection-Refractory-Protection/dp/B01LWI8V0Gbake it, then diamond polish it to a fine finish and use that? that way it would be sealed and clean I think. Then you can just carefully wipe it down and inspect it.( on the top surface).If I can lay down a bunch of 'glazed' fire bricks and seal between them with clean dry sand in between use that is acceptable because sand use is minimal. Then I can glue them to floor panels which interlock with small amounts of fixture glue and keep the in a nice sealed cabinet while not in use along with a container of sand (something like those sandwich shop sauce bottles could dispense sand nicely with bit of cab-o-sil or something). Like a jig-saw puzzle. Maybe even keep the cabinet gasket sealed and put one of those electrical humidity-remover panels on it (see bigclives analysis of one).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 07:35:23 am
content: Concrete spalls and pops because the heat decomposes it and releases the water bound up in the hydrated concrete. Ceramic that has been fired will not have bound water, and will be a mass of fused silica particles. The fire clay you are talking about needs to be fired to get it dry and sintered, driving out water of hydration, so just putting it on and not firing it will make it spall badly the first time you spill hot metal on it. Fire it and it will not spall, but will be very soft. Brick with just an edge, or high temperature fired terracotta is the only solution, unless you make as mentioned above a fire pit with crushed granitic gravel or such in it, that will both absorb molten metal and allow any steam to easily escape.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 07:38:50 am
content: oh, that HT100 coating is going to be soft after fired? Its not like glazing porcelain where you get a nice glass coat after you fire it? (its what I imagined would happen)I am guessing there are no glass-like surface coats you can put on top surface of fire brick that will work then?edit:What is 'brick with just an edge'?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 08:14:17 am
content: Cleanliness is rather redundant when all your ingredients are granular, and when high temperatures make everything "sticky" (due to fusion or diffusion). Consider...Say some rust flakes off from the burner or heating element, catches on that pristine white ITC-100 coating, and melts or diffuses into it. Now you've got a black or brown stain. (This is most dramatic in fuel-fired furnaces, where the usually somewhat reducing atmosphere ensures iron is ferrous Fe(II), which is "basic", a flux somewhat stronger than Mg -- often the spot ends up sunken in, as the refractory gets partially melted.)Incidentally, in pottery: oxides are classed as basic, neutral or acidic. The rules are broadly similar to aqueous chemistry: alkalines are basic (fluxes: Na, K, Ca, Mg..), nonmetals are acidic (B, F, Si, P..), ordinary metals tend to be neutral or basic (Al, Sn..), and transition metals cover the spectrum from basic to acidic, also depending on oxidation state (Fe(III) is sort of neutral; Fe(II) is definitely basic).A "salt" has a low melting point. CaO happens to have an extremely high melting point, in and of itself, and SiO2, very high; but the combination ~CaSiO3 has a much more modest melting point (liquid at molten iron temps).Regarding transition metals, they can "salt" themselves even; this is magnetite for example: Fe3O4, better written FeFe2O4, ferrous(II) ferrate(III). Other ferrites are well known for their useful magnetic properties...The best refractories, in terms of reasonably high operating temperature, corrosion resistance (not just being neutral, but also rather insoluble in a glass melt) and strength, seem to be zirconia based (ZrO2). Pricey though. For example, bricks for lining glass holding tanks cannot flake or dissolve, and have to be in contact with corrosive Na-Ca glass for years. I think they're usually _fused_ from a Zr-Al-Si mixture. An incredibly dense brick like that, has basically no insulation value; they're backed by better insulators (Al-Si firebrick, or poured or rammed cements) to make the thing useful. Wall thicknesses, of course, are in the fractional-meter range, for this reason. Also, glass itself isn't very conductive, so all the more reason to have very good insulation.Anyway... This, isn't a pursuit for the OCD, or the clean freak, or, uh, the hypochondriac I guess? It can be done in immaculate, contained conditions -- but it's exponentially more expensive to practice that way!I suppose it doesn't matter much -- I assume most of your questions are hypothetical rather than practical (I mean that you're asking about the possibility, not that you're actually setting up to do it right now -- at least most of the time). So, it's still interesting to explore how much can be put into doing things in the various ways. And then the later question becomes: if/when you want to give it a go, what level of that do you want to attempt, what are you capable of doing, how much budget do you need for materials and such, that sort of thing.Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 08:27:09 am
content: that is very useful in regards to kiln liners but I would do a melt with a crucible in a induction heater, I do not think there is a point of doing much else then heat treating, careful brazing or sintering in a kiln. you also get the magnetic stirring with a induction heater if its designed right, otherwise you would need to bubble in some kind of stir gas to do it in a inert enviroment.For a kiln this is a concern but you don't have thermal shock loads there, since it slowly gets up to temperature with a PID so there will be no moisture in it.Also they do have quartz tubes you can put heating coils in for a high cleanness kiln but the max temperature should be lower, all the more reason for owning a few different kilns for different applications.For a floor I think the # 1 concern should be that it can't absorb things like a sponge and it has to be easily cleaned and highly polished. If the bricks are small, pourous and have one clean surface but small enough that there is a sand gas break between them, it could work very well and be fairly clean because you need much less sand, especially if you wear some kind of booties over your high temperature shoes and put a floor mat near where you step off the safety floor that you can wipe any sand off your feet.High density should be fine because I don't think breaking a crucible and molten metal spills are a regular occurrence, and my idea was that it should just buy you some time to run away if you happen to be near it before it starts splattering, then you can repair the floor underneath later when you clean up and everything cools down. Even if the heat goes through the fire brick and destroys the shop floor under neath its easy to fix within a few days and you only need enough time to get out of the room in case something pops. Might be safer too since the brick will absorb heat faster and it will cool faster so the spill becomes less mobile.I never noticed too much of a hazard from small mounts of molten steel hitting concrete, from welding at least. I wonder what the hazard increase looks like with thermal mass when you just consider the thermodynamic properties of a normal concrete foundation.You can do this with regular fire bricks for sure, its just you need to be more neurotic about keeping them clean since you need to manage that project cradle to grave.I think the induction melter shown in the video is very safe, you can even put it on a wide legged table to roll it over a wide mold's injection port if you are doing molding. I think it needs a remote operators panel controlled by some nice highly shielded cable with a digital error correcting protocol though, with all debounce and user control issues held to the highest engineering standard. or pnumatic controls

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 10:16:45 am
content: is there some kind fiberous material you can stick between a custom removable fire brick system to make a gasket that is cleaner then sand?I imagine something like a flat concrete floor, on top of which you put some kind of interlocking tiles that are built like a jig saw, that have short little spacers between them that hold a matrix of fire bricks. The small spacing between the fire bricks can be filled with something to make it deconstructable. The obvious answer is sand but you still require a vacuum cleaner and dispsener for setup.But, if the right tight weave fire proof gasket material can be found then a tight seal could be made between the bricks to make it much easier to assemble and disassemble when not in use so the whole apparatus can be stowed away.Like kaowooll thats nicely woven not to be super messy and toxic. Like a nylon braid over a paracord. YOu would just need to hone the bricks a little so they don't tear into it when you place the tiles next to each other. Or maybe put the sealer on both bricks so its a soft-on-soft seal for the floor. I could see it working really nicely if its well made and magnets snap it together. You would just need to strengthen the perimeter of the finished floor when its done with some guides. It would also have perimeter blocks that are slightly taller (maybe 1/2 inch) so stuff can't spill over the edge.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 11:15:29 am
content: mcmaster 87675K4This stuff is slightly flexible and rated to 2600F, near the point of steel.What if you filled these with sand and wrapped them around the tiles to make gaskets? Also not irritating. You can also add some copper particles of the right mesh to the sand to make it work as a heat sink that will cool the spill.if you use the thin ones you can make interlocks using 2-3 of them depending on the height of the firebrick, so they lock into each other. Like either top and bottom of the brick surface or 2 on 1 brick 2 on the other, so its like, however many strips to make a interlocking joint like putting your fingers together|C -------> =|so it forms the letter E when you join it wiht minor compression.or just cut grooves in the brick but I don;t know how rugged that would be if you start cutting into the edge of ceramics??///there are also high temperature graphite solutions but I don't know the behaviors of it. Basically looks like a RFI gasket made of graphite. It may be an option.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 01:49:16 pm
content: If you want to melt steel you'll need either an arc furnace or a miniature open hearth furnace. I spent a good bit of time designing the latter, but have not built it. I'm still trying to get organized enough to build a crucible furnace and a small cupola.If you want to make a safe work area inside, put down a layer of insulating firebrick on top of the concrete floor and then build a wall with super duty firebrick and put a layer of that over the top of the insulating brick. But that's a Rolls Royce floor.https://www.foundryservice.com/product/hard-fire-bricks-high-density-super-duty/A 2x12 perimeter with a plastic liner and 8" of dry sand will be much cheaper. It does not need to be molding sand unless you plan to pour floor molds which is really rather too large for a hobby project. And certainly not something to do in your garage. The plastic liner will prevent moisture coming up through the floor. You're not going to be able to handle more than 50 lbs of metal.Get this book:https://www.amazon.com/Foundry-Manual-United-States-Navy/dp/1410109003FYI the foundry section of my library is 3 ft.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 01:58:22 pm
content: The fact that this is being asked and subsequently argued about tells me you shouldn't be messing with casting steel. Build up some experience with lower temperature metals and what you need to know will come to you over time. At the minimum, you'll get a proper casting routine and proper workshop etiquette down. Casting iron and steel is exponentially more dangerous than lower temperature metals, not just because of the risk of steam explosion but also because other dangers like radiation starts giving you trouble at these energy levels.Are you actually planning to do this or is this another one of your many "what if" type threads?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 05:59:53 pm
content: who am i arguing with? rhb has a casting library and he suggested a similar transient floor as I envisioned just with the details I need. of course I want rolls royce equipment not working on a dirt floor ... my thread title specifically says I was worried about dehydration reactions in concrete from temperaturewhy not a induction furnace though? and you can do steel with a MOSi2 kiln too, but I want to do direct induction crucible heating. everything other then induction seems to mean you need to handle a giant glowing sun with thongs. or rupe goldberg hoist systems.what no one answered yet is how to fill the gaps in the floor. Do you just rely on the brick geometry? you can't use a filler because then you would need a giant kiln to fire the entire floor and then a fork lift to set it down. with a few layers of bricks I can see a blood-draw thing working to cool it down before it gets to the bottom surface but its kinda crazy.am I just over estimating on how fluid molten steel is? does the rolls royce floor just have a sand gap filler?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2018, 10:34:04 pm
content: You stagger the joints. Molten metal thickens very quickly in contact with anything that absorbs heat. Typically the bricks are set with refractory mortar.I suggest you do some power and heat loss calculations. You can certainly do induction heating of a vacuum crucible furnace. But this is big league stuff even at small scale.There is no way that you can cast steel without handling a white hot crucible. And the amount of thermal energy is enough to be seriously dangerous.Read some books on steel making. There is a vast literature on the subject. That's another 3 ft of books in my library. Whatever you do, don't rely on the internet for anything other than access to peer reviewed professional papers or to buy books.Casting gray or white iron using a cupola is an ancient process. Modern steel making is less than 200 years old. The temperature difference between the melting point of carbon saturated iron and low carbon iron is the reason. I'll leave you to research when the first steel castings aside from ingots were made, but it was almost certainly a 20th century development.I didn't do any electronics oriented stuff for almost 20 years because I was focused on metal working. That section of my library is over 50 ft of books.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:04:02 am
content: that machine has some kind of valve that lets the cast pour from the bottom. I don't see why you cant get crucibles with a valve on the bottom???

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:10:05 am
content: also my goal is not doing parts casting but I want to make engineering samples of custom alloys for things like crystal analysis by various meanslike bars and rods 200cc in size or so

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:26:45 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 26, 2018, 01:10:05 amAre homebrew samples going to be representative of professionally alloyed and cast products? I suspect you'll struggle with repeatability a lot. This isn't a simple process if the result needs to be more than ballpark or ballcountry accurate.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:42:16 am
content: i think if you clean the alloys before use, get a good crucible, use vacuum and induction its going to be pretty decent

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 02:10:17 am
content: You can probably do that for a few $100K.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 02:19:07 am
content: why would it be so expensive?I think you can do it cheap but it will be bigger, MORE reliable/better built (derate overspecify) and way less sexy then a commercial solution.by sexy i mean it will look like shit and have way more switches and technical knowledge required for operation then a 20$ an hour technican using something nice, like you will need to have your wits about you

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 02:58:43 am
content: I've spent a few $k making the better part of an induction heater, and would need about as much to create the furnace. The crucible/ladle, molding materials and such, would run a bit less than another 1. Mind, I know exactly what I'm doing, and if research is required it will take much longer (as I did, back around highschool when I was originally researching this stuff), and probably more expensive.You can do cheaper from China (under $2k for a 10kW size machine?), but still need to make a furnace, and still need all the handling and molding materials.With vacuum, you need a bell jar, vacuum pump, possibly a diffusion pump and/or cold trap as well, high current feedthrus, remote actuators (at least a vacuum-compatible solenoid or servo, or a linear or rotating feedthru linkage would do, too), maybe some good old fashioned radiant heaters too if the mold needs bakeout, and preheating for thermal shock.I'm not sure that I'd be confident enough to do vacuum casting inside a bell jar, because any splash of metal will stick to said bell and shatter it instantly. It would at least need an armor layer (I don't think safety glasses are enough here).A basic vacuum system will run you about $1k, and you can make a lot of fittings yourself if you have the tools (or if not, that'll be another $1k+ including tooling and stock).Or instead of a bell jar, a fused quartz tube so you can place the induction coils outside, and only need an actuator inside (which can be axial). Fused quartz is probably still not a good idea to splash with molten steel, but it stands the best chance of success. It's commercially available, which is great. But, again... available at what price.So overall you'd be looking at ballpark $10k to put together a lab in a modest time frame, assuming capability of piecing everything together, making or buying whatever parts are needed to mate everything up. That probably pushes up to ~$100k if you need a full lab setup like next week and don't have any chance of saving money with used and spare equipment.And of course, you may get terribly lucky and find useful kit at the scrap yard, or estate sales or lab cleanouts or whatever. But the chances are low, so the expected payout time is very long. Time is money, however you split it...Tim

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 02:59:25 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 26, 2018, 02:45:17 amThey're waiting for you, Timmmm. In the test chambeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 12:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on December 26, 2018, 02:58:43 amto simplify the design they put a gasket on the vacuum chamber with some kind of actuator to fit it, then bake the mold in a kiln next to the heater and insert the kiln directly prior to the pourThe valves can all be done nicely with swagelok (or their 10 compatible compeditors) stuff for the gas system and cooling system for the work coil, litron for the radiators, not sure about the fans, and PID controls for the coolant loops and gas control, you can use pneumatic controlled vales for everything if you want too but their expensiveyou can make a vacuum system out of stainless plate that is brazed together with high silver solder I think. I am pretty sure it will hold up real nice and you can polish it to a mirror finish from the inside and outside, if you use thick plate you can make a multifaceted chamber that is built like a diamond shape and it will hold up just fine to vacuum without any more reinforcement. No real need for metal spinning parts etcsince the mold has angles inside of it you can make angle pieces of fire brick that line the inside to protect the stainless steel which are all removable and fit, there is no need for anything more then a precise tile saw that can do angle cuts, for a small one the proxxon bench saw would do nicely so you can adjust the cut by 0.001 or so. they have the luxury of metal spinning the parts and getting custom CNC cut ceramic insulators which you have to do without unless your really well equipped.then nice rectangle hollow high purity copper bus bar to make the coil (may be tricky to bend), those expensive water cooled foil capacitors for the tank, a nice mains isolation transformer to act as a surge limiter for the mains filter cap, some kind of current limiting reactor, nice EMI filter network, fuses, chassis, andthe tricky part which is the IGBT section and matching transformer that is the core of the hard electrical problem here which will likely explode. i imagine a bunch of isolated drivers working OK but you still need to do the tricky frequency adjust control loop control parameter and maybe some unforeseen consequences because of the magnetic coupling transformer, snubbing and whatever else I missed.i think if you get alot of probes (I and V) and many instruments monitoring it the first time it explodes you can identify the problems quickly, but you need to monitor everything because each iteration means big expensive transistors, i would just put video recording on all the oscilloscopes and meters. \and to build some kind of simulator for the control system to see how it behaves in all feedback states too. the IGBT section makes me think of testing a jumbo jet turbine or something lol

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:07:29 pm
content: This has become a real hoot. I thought I was the only one crazy enough to have projects like this.To keep myself from going broke buying stuff I settled for just buying books and doing lots of calculations.The vacuum chamber will need to be SS and welded. Hard solder might work close to the pump, but anything close to the heater will have to be welded. And if you want a good vacuum, that means finding a nuclear certified welder to do the work. Of course, if you are already competent with TIG you can hunt down leaks, grind it off and do it over until it will hold a vacuum.I suggest getting a copy of:Vacuum Sealing TechniquesA. Roth 1994 AIPISBN 1-56396-259-4At 845 pages it's very comprehensive. I have other references, but this is where I'd start.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:32:12 pm
content: why won't silver braze work? I found its extremely fluid and the tensile strength is extreme, so long you follow proper spacing procedures when you set up for the braze.The harris documents have a chart that tells you which alloy is good for fluidity and stuff. I thought like safety-silv 56 or 45if you mean diffusivity increase with temperature (never looked at it), you can do clever techniques i.e. shaping it like a anise fruit to put the braze seams far away from the thermal mass in the middle (bend the plates into V's and solder on the outer edges), it will be naturally heat sinked then. Clamp it and then you get a long overlapping seam rather then a little filled miter joint.I don't think there is any way a welded seal will be better then a fluid silver seal.or just make it bigger and thicker if you want a simple shape

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 06:46:50 pm
content: What's the melting point of the solder? You have to make sure that part of the equipment does not get hot enough to soften the solder. It should be fine away from the heat. Of course, if you line the inside of the vacuum chamber with enough castable insulating refractory you can keep the solder joints cool enough.The book I cited earlier is the professional reference on the subject.This is not a project you just slap together. It requires a serious engineering effort. Once you get up to 3000 F most materials either fail outright or have very short lifespans.The induction coil is going to have to be made of copper tubing and water cooled. The radiated heat from the crucible would melt solid copper bus bar.Making alloy test coupons is much simpler than making cast steel parts. But it's still not trivial.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 07:59:12 pm
content: Yes, I said hollow copper bus bar. I don't think tubing is the greatest for this application, you want electrical copper. I am pretty sure mcmaster sells it. You would probobly want to get it hot and dip it in a pool of molten silver too (lol). I saw this done for a small copper part before (like 6 inches long)it will melt at like 850c but that would be ridiculous if the exterior of a vacuum chamber was glowing red, maybe in that new russian nuclear SLAM ripoff.I think the word I was looking for is 'fluted' to describe the shape that can distance the joint away from the heat. You can also place reflectors between the crucible and the braze joints too.i think also there should be a high diameter tube fitted with a burst disk in the vacuum chamber that will move the steam to a safe location because it wont go through the vacuum hose fast enough if it messes up. double walled with a external welded armor shelland a hydraulic GFIC circuit with two flow meters that need to match or the pump is turned off. latching, also some flow one way valves and restraint on what the proper water pressure should be so it does not keep running if there is steam going into the pump from both sides. tank needs a burst disk too. and less reliable over pressure valves in case of a small steam leak. you don't want super heated steam shooting out of a flailing hose, it needs to be made safe. should probobly be seamless stainless tubing but that can literally blow up. You might even want to measure differential pressure to check for restrictions from oxidation incase you don treplace the water. maybe even turbulance measurement of water returning to tank

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 12:06:07 am
content: I wouldn't think silver solder would be a problem, or soft solder for making seals but not structural joints just because it's not very strong.We're not talking high vacuum here, just enough to keep things clean. Silver solder, brass, galvanized metal and such are well known to be unsuitable for high vacuum use, because zinc is so volatile -- it evaporates out of the surface at a partial pressure significant at those levels (10^-6 torr).Should be okay for modest vacuum though.The only other reason you may need a high vacuum, is to get the voltage rating adequate to run an induction coil. Modest pressures (probably 10^-3 to 1 torr?) would be a mess, but harder vacuum should be okay without too much trouble.I don't see that the temperature rating of the vessel needs to be very significant. Put some insulation around the target. Even more material that'll outgas, mind -- I wonder if that stuff is a nightmare to keep a good vacuum on?Don't expect to get much of a window on the system, either, necessarily -- depending on alloy, expect evaporating metal to condense on every nearby surface by line-of-sight.Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 02:45:51 am
content: if you already have water cooling you might be able to put some kind of hat on the thing to act as a condenser for the vapors but you would need to make sure it does not get clogged.Silver solder is incredibly strong, I don't think many people realize this for some reason. You can get the same strength from common welding as you can with silver braze (60,000 PSI+), and with braze you can do awesome things like make a massive overlapping lap joint between two plates that has a much higher contact area then a weld bead. It flows like crazy. And its annealed afterwards.What people might not get is that you get almost no (comparable) strength if you make a fillet with brazing. The braze needs to flow into the interface to make a bond, the bit on the outside is just cosmetic. in comparison.BTW the soft solder idea is very interesting, because if you look in harris catalog, the best-metal on metal solder they sell (400F melting point or w/e) has a fluidity rating of 10, whereas stay-silv 56% has a fluidity rating of 8, and it already spreads like mad under the flame. 10 must be like alcohol compared to water. And there is less heating so less stress so less cracks and more crack penetration because of the fluidity. Not sure how well the flux works though, so you might need to clean better for the soft metal solder.It has a higher vapor pressure though probably.Then there are also more advanced things like pure silver, or gold based braze alloys which I have not rated side by side to commercial economical options. They might be good choices too but a useful gold braze bar of small size I calculated is something like 500$ if you were to even make it yourself. Pure silver is actually fairly economical for small jobs but IDK if you wanna do a big vacuum chamber with it if there is no good benefit because you don't have nice rod forms of it. Maybe you can make something for werewolves with the left overs? idk but the melting point is higher so there is more stress but I think its more reactive so you have better bonding, not sure where the trade off is. Maybe stick to catagorized shit for vacuum and pressure joints because its more to be leak proof then structurally sound.The soft solders are also impressive because they are like 15000 PSI, which is maybe 1/4 of a good braze joint, but still thats alot, you get like 5 times more strength then a common epoxy bond.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 03:02:17 am
content: I think also you want a hydrocarbon filtered air inlet port or just purge it prior to storage and refill it with some kind of clean gas, so the brick does not get a chance to absorb crap as much. Don't just open it up and let it suck in dirty air. Same thing if there is a vacuum pump oil filter and if you have a bleeder on it, use filtered air.I would bake all that stuff to reasonable temperatures prior to use, assemble it hot and then keep it filled with clean gasses whenever possible, then open it up quick to insert the crucible and immediately heat and purge it.My suspision is that cracks open up when its hot, and if you let it suck in dirty gases when its warm and let it cool dirty they might get trapped in something. and if its already under vacuum you don't wanna introduce dirty stuff because it will coat everything rather then being limited to diffusion in 'dead spaces'.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2018, 02:50:33 am
content: Beautifully written.The first order task for anyone seeking to do serious foundry work would be using something similar to the plastic box shown as a pattern, make a plaster of paris mold, bake it out and cast a similar box of zinc alloy to equal exterior fit and finish.Note, this is a *small* box. So melting metal in a small seamless drawn steel can on the kitchen stove is viable. Just make sure you have good ventilation. You don't want to get the zinc shakes.My understanding is that in normal practice plaster molds are single use with a master pattern to make new ones if multiple items are to be poured. But in many cases, the pattern is for a die to make an airplane fuel tank. So they carve a pattern, pour the die and then make a few thousand parts.A small casting such as the box will give you mastery of the process without requiring a large investment or a long delay collecting the requisite pure unobtainium.And a broken screen door handle or any of the other zinc alloy items is all you need for raw material.Fair up the pattern with filler so that you have good draft.Spray with non-stick cooking spray and make a mold using plaster of paris.Bake out in oven a 250 F until dry (e.g. overnight)Melt scrap and pour.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2018, 04:54:46 am
content: is there a reason you don't just melt it with a oxy acetylene torch?i did small lead molds this way too with waterglass molds too if i wanted disks etc, i put the form on top of a fire brick, push sand around it, cure it with co2 and melt it from the topi do however have a suspicion that you might get weird compounds forming if you for a prolonged period of time heat molten metal with a flame from the surface. I think its health wise safer to cast it from a crucible actually.i have cast 100lb of lead into various things so far. I don't want to do it anymore because dross and oxidation pisses me off. i also hate stirring and being near it while its molten, i want the remote system hahai seem to get a head ache quick from the heat.and I seriously don't recommend doing zinc, I noticed the smell before when I was welding galvanized steel and it just smells bad for you so I stripped way more then most people do . youtube does not have good health practices. stick to flat bar thats not coated instead of reusing old crap IMO.What parts do you make with casting? Apart from making hammers and gravity clamp type things I found it kind of lack luster. I don't mind right angles and miters in my designs, with the main benefit of casting being curved surfaces, not to mention you need a many many mold layers to make something complex based on the inflection points. To make any valves or anything like that you need complicated finishing equipment that is very expensive because the surface texture is not right for fluids or anything but really simple tools.With things like high speed belt sanders you can remove alot of metal very quickly (dont sand lead though). I have not found a inspiring project to do casting with, but the metallurgical chemistry aspect of it is very interesting.I could probably fill a big tool chest with a bunch of lead filled gravity clamps of various sizes and shapes though. and lead vice jaws and hammers are invaluable.a health tip though, if you want to make a lead gravity weight out of a steel rectangular tubing, weld one side shut, and weld nuts on the corners of the interior of the angle iron so you can screw in a cover plate with tapered head scews in it, fit everything nicely, do your finishing of it while its closed, then pour the lead and epoxy seal and then refinish and paint, don't weld the thing after its filled with lead IMO

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2018, 01:16:05 am
content: Relevant footage:Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2018, 03:33:04 am
content: the way that industry is run is pretty badi am assuming there is not people allowed on the floor when that is working.no there is clearly an ant man theredeath trap successfully tested: probability of t-1000 elimination guaranteed.man I read those books for like 5 minutes and they even say to put a trench under the path where the thing goes. this is a joke. you can probably put a cat walk over a trench to catch 95% of that.What the hell did the safety board say 'nah the catwalk is too dangerous because 3 inch steel might rust through when we don't maintain it after 50 years of operation'?also look how clean that air extractor is, there is like hundreds of pounds of flammable metal dust on it. and you can't see anything when it falls.'clean casting operation is a safe casting operation', anyone that accepts otherwise is delusional.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2018, 05:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on December 29, 2018, 01:16:05 amI can't quite tell whether it's a catastrophic failure of the equipment or whether the operator dislodged something when he bumped the crucible. I can't find more about it on Google either. I did find various other videos though.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 05:47:55 am
content: If you're talking about the latter video, the crucible was fine. That looked like a catastrophic failure of the mold. Perhaps trapped moisture causing a steam explosion.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 05:53:36 am
content: As far as a trench under the path of the crucible, I'm guessing that would be a nightmare for large scale work. For small scale it would be a good idea. But dropping 20 tons + of molten steel into a trench is likely to end up with a permanently filled trench. The cost to remove it would be astronomical compared to just cutting it up and lifting it off the floor.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 09:32:26 am
content: why? you can just use oxygen lances to cut it, and it should never spill and if it does spill you need to have a serious expensive safety review, employee retraining, root cause analysis, probably psychological examinations anywaythere should be no way that cost can over ride a factory workers feet being tidal waved by something at 2700F. no shoes and pants are gonna stop that. That cost alot and it could have easily killed someone. The ones in subsequent videos are small compared to the one in the gif.and the way the russian plant is built, they should just close that shit and make the engineers farm potatoes, who makes a sprinkler of molten steel that travels along the factory floor?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 09:43:09 am
content: it would be nice to see the metal without the smoke with some kind of filters so you can see how it bounces around so you can design the spill containment better.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 06:16:40 pm
content: It is not as simple as you think. I can tell you have little experience in this area. An oxygen lance will cut through EVERYTHING in its path, including the floor. Getting it out of the trench would have to happen first. Good luck with that. Jamming a pry bar under a piece of steel on a flat floor to lift it is relatively simple in comparison.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 06:19:10 pm
content: how many spills do you expect in the life time of the plant? who cares if some bricks get cut through??? use a big magnet to pick it up? (they have them on little cranes you can drive around or attach to a fork lift. You can even drill holes in it and put some kind of anchors or screws in it with impact hammers and lift that up in little segments.so you ruin a freaking brick floor as a result of a major accident. Do you consider it normal for a giant cauldron of steel hanging from the ceiling to spill all over the floor? It should NEVER happen anyway. It looks like satan took a shit on the fucking floor.how cheap are these places if they can't result to cut a floor apart?? It's a giant factory. Its one of the biggest industries. How can they not afford this??I know how a thermal lance works but I don't see the value in the fucking floor.I dug a trench before. I put down brick floors before. What the hell are you talking about this is low skill labor you contract out to illegal immigrants.the problem is there is probably something like a 15 million dollar rickety antique executive table some where. you can drive a scoop in there for gods sake, its a huge factory. They are scared mr. burns is going to drive his wood smoke powered peugeot into the factory and see they stopped using cheap child labor.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 06:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on December 30, 2018, 05:47:55 amI was talking about the video in the post I quoted. The last video is obviously a mould failure. It's less dramatic than the huge crucible spills, but still a good way to lose your feet.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 11:55:40 pm
content: Again, it's clear that you have no experience in this area. You can continue to get perturbed about that if you wish. I'm done with this one.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 07:39:06 am
content: #dirtyslum#1800s#dronelook ma! i found a living brontosaurus!!btw a crypic 'how the industry works' might be confusing to those not fluent in corporate. it is something along the lines of assaulting a camera man and releasing the dobermans. Especially if its in regards to unimaginably large cauldron of molten steel potentially damaging a floor. Employee safety: tertiary objective.