LCR Meter Recommendation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 02:29:02 pm
content: I'm interested in getting a decent LCR meter. My budget is $500 USD or less.Some I have been looking at are:DE-5000CKT2830ET4410ET4510Other suggestions welcome.Specs for the CKT2830 below..Thanks

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 02:56:00 pm
content: Hi,CKT2830 looks like TH2830 - If you can get it for 500 or less, get it and forget the rest...

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 04:17:52 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 02, 2024, 02:56:00 pmI think the resemblance is only skin deep.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 04:25:53 pm
content: I am quite happy with my DE5000 for its low price.Do you need higher frequency than 100 kHz?

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 04:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 02, 2024, 04:25:53 pmProbably not. What I have now (XJW01) only has 3 frequencies 100Hz, 1kHz and 7.8kHz.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 04:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 02, 2024, 04:17:52 pmPuuh, indeed...Then I would rather go for the ET4510, it has the same basic accuracy, but freely selectable frequencies and voltages, down to 2V.I had owned DE5000, ET4410, ET4510, so I know them.Another alternative would be the ST42 measuring tweezers.The advantage is size, a very good display, very fast measurements with sufficient accuracy.The disadvantage would be, due to the size, that you cannot measure components of any size (but this will be solved by the manufacturer in the future with an adapter, if I still remember correctly).Also, the measuring voltage is not huge, the maximum measuring frequency is 10khz.If you don't want to do more than just a quick component check, the ST42 would be very suitable, I also have one.For “more” tasks, then a device like the ET4510.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 04:43:28 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 02, 2024, 04:30:59 pmThe DE5000 has discrete 100, 120, 1000, 10 k, and 100 kHz frequencies.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 05:11:37 pm
content: We have the DE5000 as well as Tonghui TH2830 and Hioki IM3536 Lab Bench Meters. For General Purpose use the the DE5000 has served our needs well.For a broader component range, better accuracy and repeatability consider a Bench LCR meter. These provide a wider frequency range with higher stimulus voltage/current for the DUT but usually cost more. Higher DUT test currents are especially valuable in achieving repeatable DUT low Z results (with proper fixtures).If accuracy and repeatability are important, consider a known quality brand with a history of good performance, maybe the used market.Best

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 06:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 02, 2024, 04:17:52 pmComparing photos I can see a few differences in button shape and placement between the TH2830 and CKT2830.CKT are resellers of Tonghui (not sure if official or not) as you might spot on their website. I recall looking up their addresses and they are both in Xinbei District, and just down the road from one another. I suspect CKT was started by some ex-Tonghui staff... but that is just a suspicion..Several years ago I was looking to buy a TH2827C via an AliExpress seller who turned out to be associated with CKT. After some back and forth, she suggested the CKT5000 at a discounted price, and I bought that along with some Tonghui equipment (TH3331, TH6412, & TH26008A). She was very happy to make that sale I think, but I did make her work hard for it. I've been pretty happy with the gear, and had no real issues. I don't have any LCR meter better than a TH2822 handheld unit and some Peak Atlas LCR devices to compare the CKT5000 against.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 06:47:11 pm
content: CKT2830 is not a TH2830. TH2830 general accuracy is 0.05%, and at quick glance, many other benefits. You can get a real TH2830 for $700 to $800.For your budget (or at least close to it) I would look at trying to get a good deal on an ET3501 or a real TH2830. Martin seems to like that ET35 series. 😉I have the DE5000, ST42, IM3570 and a few other generic toys (I used to also have the TH2830 upgraded to ST2832, and the 3532-50).All of the meters I've had were good, but the ST42 gets the most use unless I need broader frequency range or higher voltages. The DE5000 doesn't see any use unless somebody asks a specific question about it that interests me. Then it goes back in the drawer.I'd recommend looking at the ST42 tweezers and use that until you find a good deal on something that covers more frequencies/voltages when the need arises.ETA: the fixtures that come with the TongHui bench LCR meters are something else you need to consider extending your budget for. The quality of the TH fixtures are really good, and they're not cheap on their own.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 06:50:14 pm
content: QuoteIn terms of data, it is more comparable to the TH2817 from Tonghui, which has a series with “only” 0.1% accuracy.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 06:53:20 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on November 02, 2024, 06:29:26 pmYes, there are some differences compared with the TH2830. The front panel has some subtle differences as does the rear panel, the display is also different.Not so sure this is a Tonghui Rebadge, but would be a great buy if soBest

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 06:59:14 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 02, 2024, 06:53:20 pmIt might be a fine meter, but it doesn't look like a rebadge of the TH2830. The firmware and specs are mostly different. It might be a lesser model made by TH rebadged, or it might magically be the same hardware with completely different firmware. If the latter is the case, then it would be a GREAT buy if we could get the ST firmware on it.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 11:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 02, 2024, 06:47:11 pmWhere? It would be worth saving a bit more.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 12:31:21 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 02, 2024, 11:18:21 pmI agree, especially with the option toimproveit. 😉You can find them on aliexpress in that price range, but as always, check the seller feedback rating and make sure they're not a new seller. Some sellers will occasionally give you an additional discount if you message them first.I sold mine on eBay in September already upgraded to ST2832 for $800, and I would have much preferred to sell it through here, even at a lower price. I'm sure you can find a good deal, especially if you're not in a rush. I didn't see any ads on eBay right now that I'd trust.There's also the Eucol U2832 that looks like it might be another rebrand of the TongHui (or maybe a knockoff, it's hard to tell without testing it). I've delt with this seller before, and the price is pretty tempting for a 200kHz LCR (click the U2832 for the actual price):https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832864172109.htmlI don't know how that one is, but they do have the 90 day free returns if it sucks.Another option is this ad:https://www.globalmediapro.com/dp/A2MLQ8/Tonghui-TH2830-Compact-LCR-Meter/- but I have no idea if they're legit or not. Maybe somebody else here has dealt with them?Thanks,Josh

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 12:38:33 am
content: In this context, we should not forget that Tonghui has discontinued the 28XX series.Personally, I think this is a shame, because the TH2830 in particular is an ideal intermediate step between relatively inexpensive and still of professional quality.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 12:59:29 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 03, 2024, 12:38:33 amTrue, but thankfully, the ST firmware we have in the thread is nice and stable.OTOH, anybody can save up $72,000 for their nicer meter. 😉

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 01:16:38 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 03, 2024, 12:31:21 amI have bought a few items from GMP over the years, and they are legit. I believe they are based in NZ, but I suspect they act as a broker (drop-shipping) for many items rather than having stock.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 01:23:00 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 03, 2024, 01:16:38 amInteresting. I looked at buying a Tonghui DC load and found GMP but their website doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling (quite the opposite). How about support? And how about returns?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 02:01:05 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 03, 2024, 01:23:00 amAgreed, the site is a bit old fashioned and so are their business practices. I bought some Pintek products from them, possibly something else. I cannot comment on support or returns, as that wasn't required - but their help page doesn't mention returns and in relation to warranty (guarantee) it just talks about "manufacturer's authorized service center". Their terms of trade page is useful to review for a little more detail.At the time I bought the Pintek gear, GMP was one of the few places I could source them. I recall other people here also mentioning buying items from them and having some similar doubts, but don't recall any posts in relation to problems.If I was buying Tonghui, I probably wouldn't go to GMP as there are many other vendors even if not official resellers. I would not expect a lot of support for Tonghui or most other Chinese manufacturers, but returns during warranty period with most long-time vendors should be OK. The big issue is that international shipping costs can make them non-viable, and I've been mostly lucky not to need warranty assistance.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:26:49 am
content: In Europe, Batterfly sells Tonghui equipment. They quoted me a (reasonable) price but when I asked whether I could return the DC load in case it didn't perform, I got no answer. In my case it would be a B2B transaction so consumer law wouldn't apply. Bottom line: when I'm not sure about whether a piece of equipment works the way I expect it to work, I want to be sure I can return it.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 02:58:57 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 03, 2024, 12:31:21 amVery nice.So is the U2831 - at a much nicer price and only giving up the extended frequency range to 200kHz.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 03:36:43 pm
content: Hi folk,I just got a line on a Protek Z9218 used for about $350 USD.It seems it has decent specs and is in very good condition. Anybody heard of these? They seemed to have sold for around $1,800 USD when new.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 04:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 03, 2024, 03:36:43 pmThat might be okay if it works and there's nothing wrong with it. Searching for user experience with it, I found somebody call it obsolete in 2012, and the business doesn't exist anymore.If you want to buy it, see if a cal lab near you will calibrate or adjust it. Otherwise, it's a gamble...unless you're looking for a project. But even then, the only reference on this site to it is another user trying to get a user manual 11 years ago with no responses.ETA: You should also check to see if the BNC ports are standard spacing so other fixtures will fit on it.

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 08:57:53 pm
content: Hantek 1833C for the win!For really tiny capacitors and coils NanoVNA H4.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:00:42 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 03, 2024, 04:00:20 pmIt's fully tested and has a 2021 calibration. The company no longer existing and no known manual on-line gives me some concern. But 0.02% basic accuracy is attractive.Plus I know and trust the people I'm getting it from.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:21:41 pm
content: Having DC bias capabilities for capacitors was something I was always missing from the handheld and cheap bench LCRs. You don't realize how much capacitance drops off until you can measure with the actual DC bias. That's a must have on my LCR feature list now.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2024, 11:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on November 03, 2024, 11:21:41 pmThe Protek Z9218 has that ability.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:17:30 am
content: Oh, BTW, I have found the TH2832 .. sort ofhttps://www.gsi-protek.com/9216a-1The Protek 9216B seems to have the same spec, same software (from looking at the screen) and the same physical layout and look. Just 3,355,000 Korean Won ($2600). I wonder if they bought the rights off Tonghui or did they OEM it for them?So Protek are still around. They have just withdrawn from the Western market.Then there is this too..https://en.tonghui.com.cn/product/TH2830TH2832-419.htmlSeems they have changed the name from Tonghui to TEKMIZE but it seems to be still available.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:34:45 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 03, 2024, 11:00:42 pmWould they sell it for $200? 😉Can you run some tests before you buy it?

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:39:28 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 04, 2024, 01:34:45 amNo.The $350 was negotiated down from $425.Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 04, 2024, 01:34:45 amProbably some minor stuff, but they do offer a return policy, so I can test all I like once I get it home. They are good guys. I've bought a ton of stuff off them over time.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:40:55 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 04, 2024, 01:39:28 amPM if you want to borrow my LCR Cal Test Board, or if you want your own.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 07:40:42 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 03, 2024, 11:23:47 pmCool. Up to 60v too. No gpib. Pretty inexpensive on eBay right now.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:41:07 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on November 03, 2024, 11:21:41 pmThis is an important aspect of LCR DUT evaluation, some capacitors have significant capacitance change with DC bias voltage, ceramic X7R types are an example, also interesting to see how PN Junctions vary with DC Bias.When we acquired our TH2830 a few years ago we wanted to investigate DC bias effects on various DUT, this lead us to develop the LCR Meter DC Bias adapter, details here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/bias-network-for-lcr-meterThis should work well for LCR Meters that allow a Short/Zero Ω that bypasses DC, itdoesn'twork with the DE-5000 for that reason.The Protek looks interesting, altho the specs claiming a Capacitance range of 0.00001pF to 99,999uF seems questionable. 0.00001pF has an impedance at the highest frequency measurement of 100KHz of ~160GΩ!! Don't think this is quite measurable with this instrumentBest

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 02:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 04, 2024, 01:41:07 pmI think it means display range rather than actual measurable value range.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:11:28 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 04, 2024, 02:54:10 pmMaybe they meant that, but it's listed under measurements, not in the display column. Maybe those misleading practices helped kill the business in the US. 😉

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 04:24:55 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 04, 2024, 01:41:07 pmYeah, I'd file those specs under 'misprints'. Likely the number needs to be shifted 3 zeros to the left. 10ff (femto Farad) is plenty already.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 05:53:21 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 04, 2024, 04:24:55 pmHah. Didnt see that. That has to be below the capacitance of whatever test set you are using to hold the part.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 07:38:05 pm
content: Yeah 10aF (0.01fF) is about the capacitance of two banana plug tips facing each other as:+ 300mm - + C ------> <------- which equals = ------||------About ~10aF at ~300mm spacing in free space with nothing else aroundThis supports just 63 electrons at 1 volt across the capacitanceBest,

author: hussamaldean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 05:53:01 am
content: Hi,I have this one from uni-t:https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut612/#SpecificationsIt is a great one.Specially it has 100KHz which help me a lot in many projects.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:05:47 am
content: So, being the adventurous type I've pulled the trigger on the Protek.I'll be picking it up in a week and will report back with interesting pictures and such.I did contact Protek in Korea for a manual, but they insist this item was made by a different company. Seems odd as my research uncovered a data trail that led me right to them. But then again, history is not an exact "science".

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:25:17 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 09, 2024, 02:05:47 amI doubt Protek made a lot of what they show on their website. This one looks a little too familiar:https://www.gsi-protek.com/9216a-1- and it's hilarious that the URL for 9216B is 9216a-1. 🤣

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:58:47 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 09, 2024, 02:25:17 amI noticed that as well. Specs are identical too.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:59:32 pm
content: An update.So I picked up the Protec Z9218 and did some testing with a few reference capacitors.I love the interface. Really intuitive and I was able to find my way around it in a few minutes. I really like the external bias feature and it some other features I really like too. For instance you can enter the nominal value of a device and a % tolerance and do real quick go/no-go component selection. I'm not sure if that's a common feature or not. It is super fast and accurate below 2uF (1.999999nF or less), but when it switches to the uF range it's bonkers. There is something really wrong in that range. It's unable to determine ESR and shows capacitance values no where near actual - 100uF showing as 0.000787uF and 47uF showing as 0.000898uF - like I said, bonkers. I don't know who tested this before declaring it "Fully tested and working as designed". That's not for me to determine.It's such a pity as it is just such a nice instrument in every other way. Anyway, I've let the seller know and they will give me a full refund.So, I pulled the trigger on a ET4410. I wanted the ET4510, but I could not find a vendor that would ship to me here in Canada for some odd reason. I was able to put them in my basket, but when I went to check out I'd get some form of "This item cannot be shipped to you location" message.Anyway, the ET4410 should meet my needs.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 14, 2024, 05:59:32 pmWhat frequency were you testing the 100uF cap at? Did you do a full open/short calibration first?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:08:02 pm
content: Any chance you could try and repair the Protek?Take some detailed pictures of the inside and PCBs, I'm sure a few of us (ourselves included) will try and help. Seems like a nice meter and maybe recoverable?Best,

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 14, 2024, 06:06:35 pmYes, open/short calibration was done at each frequency and function (par/ser) and I tried 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 100kHz. The imaginary values were different at each frequency. The values in my last post were at 1kHz.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 14, 2024, 06:26:36 pmI'd offer them $100 to keep it and try and fix it yourself.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:32:57 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 14, 2024, 06:08:02 pmI was thinking about it. It might simply be a bad relay or CMOS switch but the issue I have with that is 2-fold.First, it might be such a simple thing and the resulting repair might effect the calibration. With no documentation on it I might not be able to re-adjust it properly.Second, and this is a little complicated, the pricing does not fit a "For parts or repair" unit. I had this conversation. The company I got it from usually gets their equipment from auctions where other companies have either folded or are upgrading their equipment. If that were the case, they would have adjusted the price for me to $150. However, this is from a lot that is on consignment and they are not in a position to adjust the price.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 14, 2024, 06:29:40 pmSee my reply to mawyatt.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on November 14, 2024, 06:32:57 pmSince you've confirmed it's not working, they should contact the seller and ask them to sell at the repair price.I wouldn't worry about the calibration, I'm sure it's long out of cal anyway. All you need is reference stuff to compare against, and you can always send it out for recalibration. It might be worth asking local cal places if they can calibrate and possibly adjust as well.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 14, 2024, 06:37:38 pmMy contact said he would, but he was not hopeful. We'll see. I'll be going down there tomorrow.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:46:32 pm
content: One good thing did come out of my visit. I got a sealed box of 42 Energizer AA Ultimate Lithiums for $25! Expiry date 2048.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 12:10:08 am
content: My ET4410 came today and I spent some time playing around with it. It works really well. The only complaint I have about it is that it was sent UPS which explains why it took 3 times longer than it should have. UPS SUCKS!!!!Does anyone know if it will take standard test fixtures?Update on the Protek. They are selling now for $215 as "For parts or repair" If they cannot sell it by Dec 6th, the have agreed to sell it to me at half that price. So I may have a nice repair project for Christmas!

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 12:57:00 am
content: I'll give them $5 more than your price for that project. 😉

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 01:42:36 am
content: No Protek for you!!

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 01:45:20 am
content: But, Maaaaa!! 😭😭