Siglent SDS1102CNL scope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2013, 04:36:26 pm
content: I can't believe I really did it!I really actually bought a Siglent SDS1102CNL scope from a Chinese seller.For a project I found that I needed a second scope. The task is simple so essentially any scope above 20MHz would do. I even considered some old analog clunker from ebay, but the prices for analog scopes other than those which have been made at some point in the 1930's and which come with banana plug inputs, and scopes that are sold as 'can't test', were simply eye watering. I also didn't like the idea of having a large antique sitting around and taking space, so at the end I found myself looking at cheap Chinese scopes.Rigol's DS1000 Series is cheap but butt ugly (yes, I somewhat care about looks, because I have to look at that thing when using it!), and comes with a tiny screen. I know it's still a common recommendation but as Dave often said later on just because he recommended it a few years ago does mean he would do so today. Uni-T fell through because of their questionable specs and their lack of regard for non-Asian countries (just look at their English web site). Atten is known to be cheap and shit but I found it wasn't that cheap compared to some Siglent offerings. At the end, I found a cheap Siglent DS1102CNL at £209 including shipping. There is also the CML variant which comes with 2M instead of 32k of sampling memory but the additional £40-60 wasn't worth it.The scope should arrive next week so if anyone wants me to test something or provide some pictures or a review then let me know. I won't do a teardown, though. But as this scope uses the same firmware as the CML variant which is also sold by LeCroy I will probably try to flash the LeCroy firmware into the scope.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 12:03:03 pm
content: The scope came today (Saturday delivery, wow!), and the first impression is really positive. The haptic quality is very good, only the knobs feel a bit cheap. It's also very silent for a DSO.I already flashed the LeCroy WaveAce 1000 firmware which works fine on that scope as expected.For that price (£209 incl. shipping) not a bad result.

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 02:45:32 pm
content: Great!I am waiting the CML from Germany.How bad are the knobs?Is the LeCroy firmware better? Any photos? What about the display? Is it good?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 03:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: hgg on May 11, 2013, 02:45:32 pmNot bad. They (the knobs themselves, not the encoders) just feel a little bit cheap (I would have preferred a bit more texturing).QuoteNo, not really. At the end of the day it's the same firmware as the original Siglent firmware (both are made by Siglent, LeCroy only provides the name anyways). LeCroy at least provides some changelog, though.However, since the LeCroy WaveAce 1000 is actually a Siglent SDS1000CML (not the CNL) I now have a setting to enable half speed memory (which I guess my CNL doesn't have). So far however I haven't seen any drawbacks.And one can easily flash back and forth between Siglent and LeCroy firmware anyways.QuoteThe display is quite good, albeit it has a lower resolution (480x234) than a modern smartphone. But it's nice and clear, the menu structure is good as well, overall a nice entry level scope and certainly worth its money.If I find time in the next days I'll do a more thorough review with pictures.

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 03:47:39 pm
content: Sounds nice!Can't wait to test it.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 04:44:57 pm
content: Gives us a detailed review with pics, when able. If you could also tests is rise time or frequency response, plus how well it triggers it would help. Enjoy.

author: Smithy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 05:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 11, 2013, 12:03:03 pmInteresting,ive just ordered a S61LPS51236A-200TQLI ram chip to solder into my SDS1102CNL in the hope that it can be hacked to the deep memory CML version.I was going to go to the expense of buying the 48TSOP adaptor for my TL866CS programmer(£25), delsoldering the flash and backing it up before trying to upgrade the firmware. But based on what your saying I might not bother with the extra expense.Do you mind telling me what hardware version you have?I have 11-62-3.3 which came with the latest firmware 5.01.02.13.after comparing the CNL AND CML's latest firmwares(version 5.01.02.13) The .ADS file are exactly the same the only differences are in the .CFG files....Is there any particular reason you flashed it with the lecroy firmware?And what version would that be?and was this a two part process? .ADS file first followed by .CFG?Cheers,Smithy

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 07:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on May 11, 2013, 04:44:57 pmYes, also waiting how other peoples real tests match with these biased sellers tests.Tests with version 10-62-3.3 SDS1102CMLAlso there can find this old version internal images. Nice to look if there is any big changes.(CML is "exactly" same as CNL in all things exept what are related to 1+1M (2M) memory.)(but these tests been made using old PCB version 10. Now there is new PCB version 11. (I have not yet ready with new tests using PCB version 11. (yes there is some tests but not yet all due to lack of time)

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 08:06:13 pm
content: I'm really interested in the information regarding reflashing these units. I just recieved a Waveace 1001. It has the 1mb of memory but only a 40mhz bandwidth. I assume the bandwidth is software only. Perhaps changing over to Siglent FW would enable the extra bandwidth. Anyway, I don't have answers but I'm following this as well!Thanks!

author: Smithy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 08:59:20 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on May 11, 2013, 08:06:13 pmI doubt it. It looks like Lecroy have a single firmware for all of the 1000 series.Smithy

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 09:09:19 pm
content: What about putting the Siglent FW into the LeCroy?

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2013, 09:19:40 pm
content: I have bought an SDS1102CML recently form a local seller cheaper than on ebay.The seller recommended Hantek.It looks like Siglent is slower than Hantek. When I click on "Auto" I have to wait several secondes before it adjusts the amplitudes.Besides that after I did compensation on the probes for x10 mode, I have found something dodgy with the amplitude in 1x mode. I shall show it in a video hopefully.

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2013, 12:09:48 am
content: Quote from: Rick on May 11, 2013, 09:19:40 pmDid you upgrade to the latest firmware that is available for the Siglents? Check your hardware version before you do the upgrade (post here if you're unsure if your hardware will be new enough).--deckert

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2013, 12:42:20 am
content: Quote from: Deckert on May 12, 2013, 12:09:48 amWhen I got it I checked and the firmware was newer than what was available on Siglent's website at that time.I shall check again. Thanks.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2013, 12:34:18 pm
content: My hardware version is: 11-62-3.3The firmware version I have is: 5.01.02.13So it is the latest one. It came with that version.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2013, 03:33:46 pm
content: So how does the Siglent system make sure you upload the correct firmware type? I mean how does it check that you are uploading the 70mhz vs 100mhz FW?

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2013, 03:47:40 pm
content: Maybe the firmware configuration file has a check routine as well.File: Siglent_CML.cfg

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 05:27:49 am
content: Quote from: Robomeds on May 12, 2013, 03:33:46 pmThe firmware Is not bandwidth dependent. There is only one firmware for all models (except the 200MHz CNL variant) of SDS1000CNL and SDS1000CML. This firmware comes with a Series dependent config file (there's one for the CNL, and one for the CML). Flashing the CML firmware into a CNL model will make it a CML variant (of course the long memory only works if the memory is actually on the PCB).The firmware for SDS1202CNL is different than for the other CNL models because this scope has different hardware (and only 5k sample memory).The firmware from LeCroy 5.01.02.20 is essentially the same as Siglent's 5.01.02.13. Again, it's only one firmware and one cfg file for all WaveAce 1000 Series scopes.I doubt that the bandwidth can be changed through the firmware. It's probably stored in some nvram on the system board.

author: Smithy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 11:30:36 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 13, 2013, 05:27:49 amActually I did a quick compared the Lecroy and siglent firmwares .ADS and .CFG and they appear to be almost completely different. Plus the lecroy .ADS is slighty longer(cant remeber by how much).Maybe the 5.01.02.20 firmware is a completely new rewrite by lecroy or commissioned by lecroy?Anyway my rams turned up today so by the end of the evening I will either have a CNL fully upgraded to a CML or a very expensive door stop.Wish me luck.Smithy

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 11:40:40 am
content: Quote from: Smithy on May 13, 2013, 11:30:36 amIt is also possible we can wait soon Siglent FW update if this LeCroy is now more new.VIP customer first (LeCroy is very important customer for Siglent).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 12:32:35 pm
content: Quote from: Smithy on May 13, 2013, 11:30:36 amThe firmware *file* is different of course due to LeCroy spefic changes (branding, certain strings and settings) but the base firmware set on which it has been built on is the same as the Siglent firmware.QuoteNo, it isn't. It's definitely not a rewrite, and LeCroy does essentially zilch themselves on the WaveAce scopes (it's bought ready to sell on by Siglent). And Siglent just modifies its standard firmware set in accordance with what their OEM customers (LeCroy is not their only customer for scopes and AWGs) have ordered in terms of disabled functionality (i.e. LeCroys WaveStation AWGs lack the counter functionality found in the original Siglent SDG1000 AWGs) and branding.QuoteGood luck!

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 10:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 13, 2013, 05:27:49 amThanks for the info!

author: Smithy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 06:57:11 pm
content: Well, the deed was done yesterday. Chip soldered and firmware was reflashed to the latest Siglent CML.Deep memory seems to work as expected except for the fact that it is disabled when using single shot triggering. I have no idea if this is to be expected as this is the first time i've had a scope with deep memory.I try'ed the latest Lecroy firmware to see if that would change any thing but the scope still acts the same. As soon as you select single shot deep memory is disabled in the same way that the scope bandwidth limits when you get down to the lowest V/div.Could anyone tell me if this is expected behavior for the Siglent CML?Cheers,Smithy

author: sorin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 07:38:20 pm
content: where did you find "S61LPS51236A-200TQLI" ?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 05:26:19 am
content: Quote from: Smithy on May 14, 2013, 06:57:11 pmCongratulations!QuoteIf I remember right for the CML scope this is normal. Have you checked the manual?

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 12:33:10 pm
content: Quote from: Smithy on May 14, 2013, 06:57:11 pmBased in the user manual i assume that:the long memory is only available when the sampling rate is 500MS and less, so for single channel you need to reducefirst the sampling rate to 500MS/s, then the long memry should be availabe in single shot.For dual channel mode the max. sample rate is already at 500MS/s, so when you enable both channels the long memoryshould be automaticaly available in single shot mode.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 02:41:58 pm
content: If select single channel for use and if sampling rate is 1GSa/s it can select long memory but it reduce sampling rate to 500MSa/s. Long memory is now 2Msamples. (if now shut off long memory it return to 1GSa/s.If there is 2 channel in use and long memory, both channels have 1Msamples.If there is single channel in use and 1GSa/s in use, short memory is 40ksample.If there is under 500MSa/s or less and short memory, it is 20ksample for single channel even if only single channel in use.Always if 2 channel in use, both channels have 20ksample if short memory selected.-------------SDS1000CML models:In Single shot trigger mode:Long memory is disabled."Single" on front panelor in trig menu selected MODE: Single(tey are same of course)(I have checked with 1072CML and 1102CML this I know. I think also SDS1152CML but this is only my quess)

author: Smithy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2013, 05:50:55 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on May 15, 2013, 02:41:58 pmThanks I must have missed that in the manual.I have in the meantime discovered a couple of bugs using long memory.I have no idea if these are true CML bugs or limitations of the hack. But I reckon there firmware issues.1) FFT cursor measurements are incorrect with long memory enabled.1Khz will be measured as 50Khz.2) problems with vector drawing using long memory and zooming in on a wave form.ie. Capture waveform at 500us/Div, zooming in up to 50ns/Div is fine but take it up to 25ns/Div and up and a straight vector or other garbage is drawn. changing to dots shows the correct samples.3) totally incorrect display using delayed timebase and a captured long memory waveform.4) Serious jitter with long memory enabled.anyone with a CML having the same problems?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2013, 09:51:29 am
content: Quote from: Smithy on May 16, 2013, 05:50:55 pmYou tell trigger jitter problem but you did not made any tests with data?These images made by original Siglent SDS1102CML, not any kind of DIY modified other model and also FW original Siglent factory installed. You can now desolder this CML memory diy and return it back to original model, after then your scope works just ok as CNL. If you can fully recover it back to original state anymore(btw, do you know your signal what you use for test....)I can not see any meaningful trigger jitter.There is also infinite persistence on and before image captured over 1 minute.Tests made using Sin(x)/x and linear.with short memory and long memory.with single channel and double channel on.Signal is also enough good quality square from HP8111A (but signal risetime is of course slow)Acquire mode normal, adjustable input filters OFF.There can not see trigger instability/jitter.Result is acceptable in this class of scopes.Only minor note: there can see systematic 500ps shift in signal position as settings change. All others are perfect but with two channels short memory selected 500ps (later I will check if this is skew between channels or both together, I note this only after test when I looking images)Also here can find some tests.

author: gercal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 06, 2013, 11:50:35 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 08, 2013, 04:36:26 pm

author: Siglent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2013, 02:01:35 am
content: Quote from: Robomeds on May 12, 2013, 03:33:46 pmThe upgrade process, the bandwidth will not change , you can by identify the product model.( Product model , the bandwidth is determined by the configuration file )

author: Nick Norton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 11:41:53 pm
content: Looking to buy a storage scope, no real urgent need for one because I've been bumbling along with 2, 1980's analogue scopes forever.A Crotech 3337 and Hameg HM412.(Love my Hameg, hate the Crotech, Hameg is lower bandwidth but has timebase delay)Anyway on Ebay..... you already know where this is going right?I have spent a couple of weeks drooling over CHEAP scopes.It seems to boil down to a Owon SDS7102V or Siglent SDS1102CNLThe only thing I don't like about the Owon SDS7102V is, it looks like a toy.The only thing I don't like about the Siglent SDS1102CNL is short sample memory.What I do like about the Owon is the analogue front end into the ADC (besides possible noise issue) it appears to extend way beyond 100MHz.What I do like about the Siglent is it looks decent and I can get it for 199 pounds delivered here in the UK.I'd would jump for the SDS1102CNL if I knew Smithy's time and skill paid off to convert it into a SDS1102CML.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 02:20:23 pm
content: So where exactly on the board do I solder the memory onto. I've been wanting to convert my scope for some time.

author: Nick Norton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 01:18:14 am
content: Quote from: echen1024 on September 07, 2013, 02:20:23 pmAt about 2:30 into this video from ToolBoom Supermarket for a SDS1102CML. The ISSI IS61LPS SRAM chip for "Long Memory" is pointed out.I don't own ANY storage scope yet so I should probably keep my forum mouth shut. But I assume the SDS1102CML and SDS1102CNLuse the same mainboard. Not a cheap chip though, 15 British Pounds + Tax + Postage from a quick look on Mouser Electronics.I can see myself buying a Tomytime OwonOr sitting on the fence forever.

author: Nick Norton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 03:07:48 am
content: QuoteI decided not to torture myself any longer and spent 259 pounds on an Owon SDS7102V (with V3.0 firmware).I'm glad I waited as Owon seem to have ironed major bugs like the much discussed noise out.

author: hary
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 07:33:08 pm
content: Well.The Owon SDS7102V has bigger memory and better quality screen 800x600 also compared to the SIGLENT SDS1102CNL (480x234)But does it make a big difference for the use. I've seen nobody complaining about it.Concerning the memory :In what case is it important to have bigger memory ?What is possible to do with a 2Mpts which isn't possible to do with a 32 or 40kpts.And what exactly means pts for Mpts or kpts ?

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 09:35:50 pm
content: Quote from: hary on October 15, 2013, 07:33:08 pmPts = points... the number of discrete samples that the digitized waveform is converted into. In the case of an 8-bit analog-to-digital converter (all lower cost digital oscilloscopes), one sample point = one byte of memory.QuoteThree things:1) The more points, the more detail the digitized waveformcouldhave (depending on the settings), allowing you to 'zoom' in on the waveform after capture.2) The maximum sample rate is limited on DSOs, so at longer time base settings, the DSO has to 'slow down' the sample rate to fit the memory size. The larger the memory, the faster the DSO can sample at those longer scales.3) On some DSOs, the extra memory can be broken into pieces (segments) and then used to store snapshots of the incoming waveform over time - rather like a recording device.

author: Nick Norton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 03:44:28 am
content: In reality the large sample depth is probably a gimmick on scopes. If you need to capture that much, you have other issues. So figure that out first. Most engineers would know how to analyze signals using any DSO anyway. Use the correct tool for the job. Not just the one with the most flashing lights/bling/agilent/rigoliness.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 02:55:13 pm
content: Quote from: Nick Norton on October 17, 2013, 03:44:28 amSeriously? You post this right after my post above. Did you bother to read and understand it? Itspecificallylists the 3 ways that large sample memory are (or can be) beneficial - so 'in reality', you don't know what you're talking about.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 03:09:08 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 17, 2013, 02:55:13 pmJust 3 of his posts ago the guy asked for buying advices and told he's excluded SDS1102CNL from the list precisely because of the short sample memory. Now he suddenly is a DSO expert and feels in position to preach us about what really matters in "correct tools for the job" and "what most engineers would". It seems that these three days since he's got his new Owon were very well spent indeed.

author: Fay
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 03:40:54 pm
content: price (£209 incl. shipping)?How can you get that??I wanna buy from here, would this price too high?http://www.aliexpress.com/store/521168

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 09:40:53 am
content: Quote from: nibaryko on June 04, 2015, 09:29:10 amRead this thread, the answers are there.