Brymen firmware updates and changelogs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: metaentity
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 07, 2021, 04:49:39 pm
content: Hello EEVblog forum!I've recently heard that the Brymen BM869s backlighting time has been extended to 240s. Is it true?Moreover, is there a reliable source to get the changelogs for the firmware updates of Brymen DMMs?Finally, how to check which firmware version is installed on a given DMM?Thank you very much for your expertise.

author: metaentity
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 25, 2021, 11:54:18 pm
content: Just received some info from Marco of Welectron. Yes, the backlighting time of the BM869s has been extended to 256s (a change that many users were waiting for).Alas, there is no publicly available revision history for Brymen firmwares.

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 02:58:05 am
content: Quote from: metaentity on January 25, 2021, 11:54:18 pmHow does one go about updating the firmware?Judging by what I have read, the microcontroller appears to be one-time programmable, so it doesn't look like it can be updated without a new chip. I wonder if this issue has been fixed for the 867s as well? I would really like a longer backlight timer.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 01:25:48 am
content: yes, the backlight turns off very early, this is very annoying

author: metaentity
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 12:07:34 pm
content: There might be a way, but it's not publicly available and it might throw off the calibration. Joe Smith, during his video reviews of the new Brymen BM786, found a bug in the meter and then Brymen gave him a new updated firmware to update his existing model.https://youtu.be/Vgmf4mgDyHEBut I think it was an exception because the meter was under testing. I would be in favor of updating my meterat my own riskif Brymen released firmware updates. But I also understand the hassle it would be for Brymen to ship the firmware, explain how to use it, help people who mess up their meter, etc.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 12:16:34 pm
content: Yes, it was changed some time ago. Someone posted the other day they had contacted Brymen about the BM867s sensitivity to line noise when measuring resistance and that they are making a change for this as well.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 01:10:14 pm
content: Quote from: metaentity on January 07, 2021, 04:49:39 pmPush and keep the "Relative Zero" button (looks like a triangle, first row third button) during powerup. The display shows for some seconds the model and version number.In my case it is "869-P9" wich means model=869, firmware version="P9"My 869s is from 2014.Cheershammy

author: dougg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 03:52:46 pm
content: Quote from: hammy on February 02, 2021, 01:10:14 pmSame trick works on the 786. Mine says: 78605. Holding Select during powerup: dSAPO; Range: EnbEP; Hold: <shows everything on LCD display>; EF: C-F; Crest: C; others: <same as Hold>.786 question: what is the difference between Max selected under the REC button and Max selected under the Crest button? The manual takes more space telling you what is _not_ in the 786 than explaining the common functions

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 07:45:40 pm
content: Quote from: dougg on February 02, 2021, 03:52:46 pmOdd, I thought it was pretty clear that it has to do with pulse detection time.

author: dougg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 02:58:08 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 02, 2021, 07:45:40 pmThanks for the clarification. However I disagree with your characterization of "pretty clear". What was shown on the left of that image is on page 18 and what is shown on the right is on page 30 in my pdf. Only the top level sections are numbered (1 through 5) and sub-sections are unnumbered plus there are very few cross references, including on page 18 where I was left wondering "what's the difference". The "General Specification" is under the "5) Maintenance" section? All that said, it's much better than nothing

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 05:51:57 pm
content: I reached out toTMEto see if they could contact Brymen about sending me a chip with the upgraded firmware for my BM867s that I bought from them back in August of 2018; Brymen told them no, that they could not send a replacement chip, nor could they provide any service that would allow for the chip to be exchanged for one with more up-to-date firmware. Maybe someone will have better luck with Welectron like Joe Smith did, but my guess is that Brymen has no interest in providing upgrades to firmware on existing multimeters to the average customer.As an aside, using the technique mentioned above, the old firmware with the short backlight on the BM867s is also 869-P9, so this meter (naturally) shares the same firmware with the 869s. Does anyone have the firmware version number for the new firmware with the longer backlight?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 06:16:53 pm
content: Quote from: SMB784 on February 03, 2021, 05:51:57 pmPretty much what I said during the video.https://youtu.be/bDIx4ik0vvA?t=502Then there's the realignment which I mentioned earlier.PA is the version that I demonstrated.

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 08:55:55 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 03, 2021, 06:16:53 pmI watched the video, but I didn't see where you held down the triangle button on start to get the firmware version; perhaps I missed it, can you tell me where abouts in the video you mentioned this? I would like to get the firmware version so that when I upgrade my BM867s I know which version to ask for.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 11:10:34 pm
content: Quote from: SMB784 on February 03, 2021, 08:55:55 pmIf you followed the link, I statedQuoteHaving watched it, I find it odd you would have still asked and expect to get one.I did not show how to get into the version menu during the video. My previous comment "PA is the version that I demonstrated. " was in response to your question "Does anyone have the firmware version number for the new firmware with the longer backlight?" Maybe you didn't understand that "PA" is the version.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 11:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: dougg on February 03, 2021, 02:58:08 pmIt's a whopping 31 pages, nothing like War and Peace or a typical engineering text book.With it being electronic and searchable, for me it I can normally find what I am looking for fairly fast.

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2021, 12:28:58 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 03, 2021, 11:10:34 pmThere has been a misunderstanding; what I said was "I would like to get the firmware version so that when I upgrade my BM867s I know which version to ask for;" what I meant was "when I upgrade (buy a new meter), I want to know what firmware revision to ask for so that I know I am getting the unit with the extended backlight." Sorry for the confusion.No, I did not understand that PA was the firmware version number. At first pass I thought that the firmware number was in P# format where # was a decimal number, but I now see from your post that it's actually in P# format where # is a hexadecimal character, in this case A (or 10 in decimal format, which makes sense since the previous version was P9).

author: dougg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 03, 2021, 11:21:51 pmA little experimentation gave me a more satisfying answer. When the REC button is pressed it is max(Vrms), min(Vrms) and average(Vrms) running totals been displayed. All three values are >= 0. With the Crest button it is max(V) and min(V) running values being shown (i.e. as close to the _instantaneous_ voltage that the meter can record). There is no point in having a Crest value average since for AC that would be zero. For North American mains voltage I see roughly: 121, 119, 120, 171, -171 Volts respectively in the Vac range.

author: metaentity
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2021, 10:16:43 pm
content: No, I think Brymen has little interest in releasing firmware updates. But maybe publishing firmware changelogs could be an incentive for user to upgrade their multimeter.Many people have complained about the backlighting duration of the BM869s, it should be advertised more that the latest firmware has longer backlighting time.

author: metaentity
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2021, 10:20:27 pm
content: Since I have the chance, I want to thank you for your videos.Does the noise issue affect other DMMs? The BM869s?

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 12:22:36 pm
content: Quote from: dougg on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 amI have a Brymen 869s (firmware 869-P9). If I press and hold REC button during boot, I see all the chars in the display. Not any specific values. How you get those values?

author: schwaggins
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 12:27:03 pm
content: Very glad to hear they increased the backlight timer!

author: Kartika
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2021, 03:24:59 pm
content: challenge to make firmware update on BM786 DM

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2021, 07:56:29 am
content: Brymen 869 bought this year - Fw - 869-PA

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 08:28:45 pm
content: It is truly ridiculous that Brymen do not provide a means to update firmware. Are Fluke users smarter than Brymen users? Seriously though, you pay $200+ for a meter only to find out it has a serious bug and you're basically knackered. Bad show Brymen .. I will never buy another. I should have spent the money and bought the equivalent Fluke and got a supported product.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2021, 08:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on December 16, 2021, 08:28:45 pmWhich Fluke multimeters have user upgradeable firmware, besides 287/289 (for which you need IR connector that alone cost the same as as whole Brymen meter) ??

author: picrthis
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 11:20:26 pm
content: why would anyone buy this if its all top secret? which is laughable in itself, I update firmware in many devices such as Innova OBD2 Tool Scanner, how about your computer do you think you should to ship it back to the manufacture to update the firmware for the BIOS, etc?I'm so thankful you don't work for HP or Dell, they give the update pgm for free along with the firmware file...................Good luck to you!

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 12:17:39 pm
content: In fairness - is your computer ever responsible for protecting your life from the applications you run?When that happens, I'm pretty confident that updating firmware willy nilly will be restricted by the manufacturers for liability reasons.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 03:42:04 pm
content: Not sure if that’s the real reason, as many other test equipment and DMM makers, including all the A brands, allows user update if there’s provision for it.If I can routinely download firmware for my car that I drive the family around, liability is not a good excuse. In fact, a vendor should makes its firmware user updatable in case bugs that are safety related ever surfaces, so they don’t have to take back out of warranty meters for update.I think it is more of a corporate stubbornness, as well as so few handheld competitors offer firmware update, that drove the policy.I have an early unit with old firmware, it does bother me that it is not upgradable. I like the meter, but Bryman could have made it so much more appealing if they allow the user to update the firmware.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 04:14:08 pm
content: I took our new troll's comment "why would anyone buy this if its all top secret?" to mean they want open source. Allow every Tom Dick and Harry wanna be, play with the code. I took the next post to suggest that was a bad idea for safety related products and I tend to agree.Most of my equipment is old enough that the manufactures had stopped supported them long before I purchased them. It's laughable as our troll puts it, to think that this would make them not worth purchasing. If anything, the fact it is still in use today points to firmware that has stood the test of time. I would much rather have one stable version of firmware than 100 poorly written versions updated weekly over the products life.I've been pretty impressed with Brymen. If I look at the 121GW prototype compared with the Brymen BM78x prototype, Brymen was very keen on finding and correcting problems before the release. They were also very fast in finding the root causes and correcting them. They were also very transparent about it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 04:21:10 pm
content: Please explain how to update the firmware in a Fluke 87V.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 04:22:52 pm
content: I suspect there's a lot more error-checking to verify your car's fw has been properly updated compared to what a little micro in a DMM is capable of, though I'm sure it could be done with checksums or the like.But - at least in the litigious US - I can imagine lawsuits filed the first time the probe jack insertion warning fails and someone is traumatized by a fuse blowing because they probed live voltage in a current mode...All that said, I would like the option myself. And it makes you appreciate all the vintage gear with ROM chips where the manufacturer had ONE chance to get it right (exemplified by the Atari 2600 version of E.T.)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 04:41:12 pm
content: Quote from: TomKatt on February 07, 2023, 04:22:52 pmComing from an automotive background many many many years ago, we started out using a lot of masked parts. You write your code, you send the code to Motorola, Motorola sends you parts that you verify. Then you order your 50,000 parts for your prototype run. Better have your shit together. Worked with an idiot who was getting ready to place an order. I ended up going through their code line by line and found a major bug. Saved their job but were they pissed. How dare you question my code sort of thing.By the time I changed my career we were looking at tools to automate the code generation and having 100% code coverage. Basically following aviation. I have no idea where things are today.

author: tomud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 04:43:54 pm
content: Quote from: NoisyBoy on February 07, 2023, 03:42:04 pmYes, it is implemented when the processor gives such possibilities, e.g. it has the ability to implement a bootloader, then the firmware is encrypted, etc.I have not seen any manufacturer of multimeters that allows you to change the firmware by, for example, connecting directly to the processor (ISP), etc.I don't know what "A" brands you're talking about but I had both Fluke and Keysight handheld multimeters and they didn't have the upgrade option. The only equipment that allows this is some laboratory multimeters and the aforementioned Fluke 287/289 multimeters.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 05:01:55 pm
content: Hence I emphasized “if there’s provision for it”I also agreed that very few handheld DMM is firmware upgradable, and the lack of competition might have driven Brymen’s decision.BTW, some Keysight handheld, like Fluke, is upgradable through the IR-USB cable.I like Brymen, no issue with their meter, all I am saying is they could make it more appealing, to me at least, if they are user updatable.