Solder Station Recommendations for Precision Work - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 05:12:06 pm
content: I'm looking for a new soldering iron/station with temp control for precision work on RC and Arduino stuff at home (might include some SMD soldering here and there). I got to experience a Metcal for the first time last year and was blown away by the speed and precision offered by the curie heat wand and the close hand-to-tip distance. I have been reading a lot here, but I'm a bit stuck in analysis paralysis. I have run into a few interesting soldering stations with little information and few reviews. I'm hoping to get some guidance and maybe help to identify/rate some of these lesser known stations. I'm particularly interested in the induction stations, but anything with close hand-to-tip distance would probably work.One of my concerns is based on my recent experience trying to find tips for my current Elenco iron. I have been using the same conical tip on that thing for years and finally needed a new one and some different shapes. It turns out the tips are hard to find and the options are limited. I would like to have more, better and readily available options, even if I just have to buy a few when I get the station.Here are a few I have hunted down that don't have a lot of info but look interesting:Quick/Madell/LRP QK202D- Very few actual reviews or demonstrations of this station (quite a few in languages I don't understand on Youtube, but that doesn't help much). I might be able to get one locally for a reasonable price. Are they good?Xytronic LF-1660ESD- The handle looks okay, the specs seem decent and the price is great, but there are apparently only four tips available and I can't find this model on any Xytronic website. What's the story on this one? I'm guessing it's a re-badge or copy of something. Is it possible it's compatible with Metcal or Thermaltronics tips?Tenma 21-19650- "Electromagnetic High power Induction Soldering Station" - Another re-badge/copy? I could only find two tips for this one and they were both conical. Are others available/compatible from other vendors?On any of those, could they be modded to use a Metcal or Thermaltronics wand for more tip selection/availability?I'm also considering going ultra cheap since I don't do a lot of soldering. The cheap controllers for Hakko T12 tips could be a fun project. I also found the Bakon 950D which seems to come with a power supply and decent looking wand.Or should I stick with something like a Weller WES(D)51 (seems like mixed reviews), Hakko 888 (don't care for the color/shape or interface) or one of their slightly higher end models?Quick background: I have been soldering for a long time. My dad taught me how to solder at about 12 years old with a Weller soldering gun. We also had a simple fire stick style iron, but the gun was the tool of choice for most of our RC stuff (soldering battery straps and almost all wire sizes in the hobby). I soldered my first through hole board with that gun.I have had various work experience with more sophisticated soldering stations.Here's a mostly chronological list of soldering stations I have used through the years with comments or what I recall about using them:- Weller WTCPTD -- really liked this station and it was the first I used outside of home.- Weller WLC100 -- Didn't like - felt cheap, didn't retain heat well - might have been abused where I worked at the time.- Weller SP23LK -- Owned this one and hardly used it. Terrible iron but could get the job done in a pinch.- Elenco SL-5 -- Used at work and purchased for home - basically a 40W iron with a dimmer. Has joined a lot of wires, soldered a lot of connectors and soldered/de-soldered a few through hole components but it's tricky to use for more delicate electronics.- Metcal (not sure which model, but had no display) -- Amazing heat-up time and heat retention. Super quick to get solder to flow. I didn't know soldering could be like this.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 06:46:42 pm
content: Since you're in the US, I would go with the Hakko FX888D. Funky color scheme (although it does exist in silver - at least on paper), but nice all around and very reliable. Tips are easy to find.Tequipment has a good price. Also, if you're not in a hurry, I have seen them on sale at Fry's for $69.99 a few times a year. You can also wait for a Zoro 25% or 30% sale and get one there.The other route is to go with a used Metcal. They are pricey when new, but given how pervasive they are in production lines (and essentially unchanged feature-wise for a couple of decades), there are piles of them available on EBay (same for tips, accessories) at more reasonable prices.IMHO, you'll be happier with a very common item with good support and parts availability in your local market (Hakko and Metcal qualify here). That's especially true since alternatives are not all that much cheaper.

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 06:59:17 pm
content: Thank you for the reply. I just got back from a hobby store where they had two LRP flavored QK202D's in use. They had four of the Madell versions on the shelf and a few of the big hoof style tips in stock at $18 each. Maybe I should take a quick run to Fry's and check out the FX888D and whatever else they have too. I liked the wand on the 202D. Common/available parts and support would be nice though.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 07:29:31 pm
content: Fry's has mostly Weller and Hakko (including tips...).Some Aoyue-type hot-air and multi-function stations too.I should add that if you want to go cheap, you can go for this:https://www.adafruit.com/products/2163Hakko T18 tip-compatible (same as FX888D). Adafruit chose it to replace the similar Hakko FX600 they used to carry, which I have (traveling toolbox) - it does the job.Laurent

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 07:51:05 pm
content: I was considering the FX600/601 but I am really trying to find something smaller and more maneuverable that gets my hand closer to the work. That's part of why I'm not so sure about the FX888D.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 08:27:41 pm
content: What exactly are you wanting to solder?Budget?I ask, as I wouldn't consider the FX-888D or WES/D51 models precision units (SMD, particularly where you'd need magnification).If thru-hole, any of these would work. For close tip-to-grip distances, you'd need to look at an FX-951 at a minimum IMHO (excellent value here in the US).

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 08:28:26 pm
content: I like my Quick 202D , and the big selections of cheap tips.I used for almost 3 years , but then i got a metcal mx500.That's a dream come true, even though the tips are a lot more expensive.I still use the Quick if i need hoof tips, as i have some for it.The Quick is the 2'nd best solder station i have ever used, and it packs "a lot of heat capacity"/Bingo

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 09:18:38 pm
content: The Fry's field trip was illuminating. The FX888D wand isn't as bad as I thought, but still bigger than I'd like. The FX-951 wasn't put together, but seemed like a good size from what I could tell. All of the Weller WES(D)51 units were taped up except one where the wand was missing, so no luck checking one of those out in person. They did have some AOYUE 936 stations and a few other things. Lots of standard Weller and T18 tips.nanofrog:I have a few RC projects that I'd like to do that will require soldering SMD components -possibly under a magnifying glass. I want to connectorize an antenna on a micro quadcopter using a U.FL connector. I'd also like to modify another antenna setup by soldering the RF cable directly to the board's surface mount pads. There is a receiver I want to direct-wire and an all-in-one camera and video transmitter I want to rewire but some of the through hole pads are closer together than I feel comfortable with using the old Elenco iron. Most of the bigger stuff in RC is easy enough to do with that Elenco, but I would prefer to do it with a temperature controlled iron.I'm just trying to keep the budget reasonable for my wants and the amount of soldering I do. I'm not reworking electronics or running a repair shop. It's hobby level stuff and hobby level volume. The FX-951 is one I have been and still am considering, but the Quick is still tempting.bingo600:Thank you for the feedback on the 202D. The hobby shop had the two LRP branded units on their workbench and they seemed pretty impressed with them.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 09:41:24 pm
content: If the handle and the distance from fingers to tip matters a lot, get a Metcal :-) Very light handle, very close to the workpiece.They even have a precision handle that's even more ridiculously light and small and closer.

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 12:03:05 am
content: Finger to tip distance is definitely my primary reason for looking at new solder equipment. Temperature control is a close second. I haven't had an issue with a solder joint in a very long time without those things, but it would be nice.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 01:44:34 am
content: Quote from: bingo600 on January 23, 2017, 08:28:26 pmI think it's less about heat capacity, more that the combo of inductive heating and putting the temperature probe up through a hollow core allows a very tight control loop. There are 150W versions of this system now too, Xytronic LF-3500 most widely available.Xytronic LF-1660ESD -> I think it's a 951 clone

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 02:17:00 am
content: Quote from: Marco on January 24, 2017, 01:44:34 amThe Xytronic LF-1660ESD is advertised as using curie heating. I thought the 951 (assuming that's the Hakko FX-951) used a ceramic heater with an integrated sensor.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 06:03:44 am
content: It's temperature controlled, so even if it uses inductive heating it can't use curie point temperature control. The tips look similar to the 951's.It's also a lower powered version of the LF-2000U (note the U) which has been discontinued. I don't expect this model to last much longer, so if you get it, get all the tips you'll ever want straight away.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 06:41:06 am
content: Quote from: Yardstick on January 23, 2017, 09:18:38 pmRegarding the Quick, although I don't have any experience with their soldering irons, my hot air station is one of their products (861DW, which runs ~$235). It's very well made, and is an excellent value IME (you sacrifice the level of support you'd find with more mainstream brands, but the savings are well worth it IMHO).In terms of a soldering iron, there's a lot of options. For example, Weller's WP80 iron would get you the shorter tip-to-grip distance you're after.But by the time you get a kit/add a power unit, it's more expensive than the FX-951 for the same functionality (seriously, this is the best value I'm aware of in the US, particularly from TEquipment after their 6% discount for EEVBlog members). And although it uses cartridge tips, common profiles are very inexpensive (I've simple plated copper tips that are as much or more expensive than common profiles in the T15 series, ~$11 - 15 per). Also keep in mind that Hakko's tips have one of, if not the thickest iron plating of any tip I'm aware of (not uncommon for a tip to last 10+ years).P.S. PM sent.Quote from: Marco on January 24, 2017, 06:03:44 amFWIW, the FX-951 uses cartridge tips (tip + heating element + temp sensor all contained within the tip assy.). The heating element isn't ceramic, but just nichrome wrapped around the base of the copper tip based on both their descriptions and a tear-down of one of the tips (looked for a link, but I didn't search that hard).

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 04:32:36 pm
content: Good point on curie heat and temp control. I wasn't sure how they were accomplishing that.I saw some reference when reading here that some people don't like the real curie heat machines. Maybe because they aren't easily temperature adjustable? Or maybe was induction heating in general. I like it on my stove top!I wonder what the pros and cons really are between ceramic vs. nichrome wire vs. induction heating for soldering. It's all heat. Maybe some are faster than others? What about the life and durability of the heating element?I think I'm down to three choices.-Quick/Madell QK202D-- Still considering this one since I can get a Madell branded one for $159 about 4 miles from my house and the hobby shop is committed enough to the stations to be able to get tips, albeit for ~$17 each. They have been using them for four years with no issue too. I like the size/shape of this one. It would be easy to store when my electronics workbench becomes a dirtbike suspension workbench.-Hakko FX-951-- Probably the best choice overall. For some reason it bugs me that there are $13 controllers that can run similar tips. Maybe that's a testament to the usability/availability. Would I really get $200+ more value out of a real Hakko? The higher value is probably down to having higher reliability and better support. Is there any other significant advantage of this one vs the QK202D?-Metcal(Really Metcal or Thermaltronics or Quick Braid, I guess) -- Looks like the Metcal PS-900 is one of the most affordable. This might have been what I used. Not sure I need to get this serious though.Edit: I think the FX-951 wins. Huge, readily available tip selection and seems like most people who own this one are very happy with it.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 07:15:33 pm
content: Yardstick, you will enjoy the 951. I have one and it really is a pleasure to use. I also have a Metcal MX-500 with wand and tweezers I got for a ridiculous price. I admit, I like the wand on the Metcal better but that deal came a couple of months after I got the Hakko. No way was I returning the Hakko and I like having 2 stations.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2017, 01:45:05 am
content: Quote from: Yardstick on January 24, 2017, 04:32:36 pmBit pricey for tips IMHO.Quote from: Yardstick on January 24, 2017, 04:32:36 pmYes, it's worth every bit of the price (~$222 after discount).The value isn't just the initial cost, but the tip lifespan as well since they last so long and aren't horribly expensive for common profiles.Tip and spares availability will also be far better than Quick/Madell.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2017, 06:49:04 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 25, 2017, 01:45:05 amThat's an expensive sellerhttp://www.pmtech.co.uk/quick-303-series-soldering-tips-for-202d-303b-irons.htmlhttp://toolboom.com/en/search?searchword=202d/Bingo

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2017, 10:51:53 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on January 25, 2017, 06:49:04 pmI found a couple of other sources in the U.S. but they were $13 each and then ~$10-11 shipping. The $17 source is ~4 miles away at a hobby shop but they only had one type in the store. I would like to know more about how that one actually operates. One video I found showed that the tip is basically hollow up to the very end. I'd like to know which part heats up. Maybe the wand has the induction coil and the tip has the iron part being excited?Or maybe the wand has the heater and it just relies on conduction between the heater and tip to transfer heat? Part of what I like about the FX-951 is that the heater can be very close to the tip and you replace the heater and sensor with each tip, rather than one or the other. I can see an argument for the potential to have failures that way too, but from what I read it seems rare.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 01:52:16 am
content: A search on aliexpress for high frequency soldering tips finds that price for a complete set.Kingsom has the following image "explaining" how it works, it seems there's something to heat the tip below the collet inside the outer tube. The manufacturers say it's eddy current heating, though I guess it could simply be nichrome too. Would be nice if Dave could do a teardown sometime, not likethese thingsare expensive.

author: Yardstick
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 03:49:01 am
content: Are those the heaters/tips used on the QK202D? That one claims to use an "electromagnetic element". I suppose that probably is technically a high frequency heater, but a lot of nichrome and ceramic heater types claim to use high frequency too.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 06:27:38 pm
content: The Weller WES(D)51 essentially duplicates the performance of the Weller Magnastat irons like the WTCPTD that you mentioned but the WES(D)51 has continuously variable temperature control instead of having to change tips to change temperature. They both have an excellent selection of low cost tips.I have a pair of Magnastat irons and have no trouble at all doing surface mount work with them using the smaller tips.