learning FPGA for beginners  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: hussamaldean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 06:17:11 am
content: Hi all,I am planning to learn FPGA as controller for my PhD thesis. however, I am not sure which one to choosegive your opinion objectively.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 06:41:25 am
content: Pick the one with the features you need, then the best documentation. It also helps to have the same tooling as your mentor uses, but not essential.Price should have very little input on the decission a board that doesn't have yhe features you need, or you cant use due to lack of documentation isn't worth the money.

author: hussamaldean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 01:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on September 28, 2018, 06:41:25 amthanks for your reply. however, I am looking for one to be used as controller such as PID, Fuzzy Logic and AI control

author: Ferenc
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 01:54:38 pm
content: I wouldn't recommend Xilinx Spartan-6. It's outdated, their newest design suit doesn't even support this family, only the older software.Also, it's worth to checkout Digilent's Xilinx boards:https://store.digilentinc.com/fpga-development-boards-kits-from-digilent/They are more expensive, then the ones you showed, but they are full of useful stuff, that can help you learn. Buttons, switches, leds, lcd screens, peripherals, etc.About Altera: I have never used their product, so I can't say anything.

author: kizmit99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 02:08:19 pm
content: I can't speak to whether or not they would fit your need, but I have used both of the Cyclone based boards you've listed. (Actually on a second look I haven't used the specific Cyclone-IV board you've shown, but one that looks very similar and appears to have the exact same peripherals)...Between those two boards I would recommend the Cyclone-IV board for getting up to speed (learning). It contains several I/O peripherals that can be used in learning projects. Without those you would have to wire-up to an external proto-board, or something similar. The Cyclone-II board is (IMO) geared more toward being plugged into an external project. While it does provide the necessary support components for the FPGA to operate (boot EEPROM, voltage regulators and an oscillator) that is all it provides. It makes for a very sparse prototyping environment.Both boards are relatively "old" technology, but the FPGAs do provide a surprisingly large amount of internal resources (plenty to get up to speed on FPGAs at least). The Cyclone-IV does provide more internal resources than the Cyclone-II.Hope that's of some help.

author: JonPyro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 02:09:55 pm
content: I would recommend a digilent board, they are a little light on some documentation but there is enough to get you started. They also have expansion slots which can be useful for adding function to the board without having to design the circuitry yourself, its more 'plug and play'....though that expression should not be used with FPGA if you are new as the learning curve can be steep.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 02:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: Ferenc on September 28, 2018, 01:54:38 pmi think Altera is the same fate, i have board in the middle picture (Cyclone II), latest version of Quartus doesnt support that, i need to program it in older version. they want to push us on the newer version of chip...

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 03:41:10 pm
content: There are a number of Artix 7 boards with chips of varying capacity. They are well supported in Xilinx's Vivado. Pay attention to the actual device and look it up to see what features it has:https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds197-xa-artix7-overview.pdfThe 35T variant shows up a lot.In my view, the important consideration is 'gadgets'. I want boards with lots of LEDs, 7-Segment Displays, Buttons and Switches. I don't often want to use a board that just brings out headers - unless I need more IO than I can get with the PMOD connectors on Digilent's boards.I have no idea what you are building but I'll bet there is a CPU in there somewhere. Does the Zynq chip make sense? It combines an ARM core along with FPGA fabric. I haven't played with one (yet).My favorite board (with gadgets) at the moment is:https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-4-ddr-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-ece-curriculum/Lots and lots of gadgets!Zynq:https://store.digilentinc.com/fpga-programmable-logic/by-technology/zynq/I'll bet the learning curve for the Zynq is high and steep. There's a book...

author: hussamaldean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 04:12:18 pm
content: let say cyclone IV is good enough to learn and up and running in FPGA world right ?

author: jmw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 05:46:27 pm
content: If you go with Xilinx, don't get a Spartan-6. You'll be stuck using ISE which is an evolutionary dead-end and is not getting any more updates. I think the Arty board is a decent Artix-7 board that will get you on Vivado, assuming its weird hybrid Arduino/PMOD header arrangement is something you can deal with.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 05:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: hussamaldean on September 28, 2018, 04:12:18 pmYes and that board from URUK is quite inexpensive in US$. It uses a somewhat small device (22,320 logic cells) compared to an Artix 35T with 33,280 logic cells. Yes, I know it is nearly impossible to compare these specs between manufacturers but still...https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdfs/literature/hb/cyclone-iv/cyiv-51001.pdfhttps://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds180_7Series_Overview.pdfMy favorite board (as posted above) uses the Artix 7 100T with 101,440 logic cells. But it is very expensive compared to the URUK board so is probably out of the question.https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-4-ddr-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-ece-curriculum/One thing is certain: More logic cells are better than fewer logic cells. Feature creep alone is a reason to work in a larger sandbox.But that URUK board will definitely get you up the learning curve.

author: hussamaldean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 06:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 28, 2018, 05:48:05 pmUruk is the seller name and I contacted them and they said they have tutorial for this boardthx for the help

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 06:16:41 pm
content: It's tricky, isn't it? I'm looking at getting into FPGAs and have a similar dilemma. I have different priorities (e.g. easy solderable) so won't confuse your thread with what I found. Plus, I still haven't got to a decision!

author: hussamaldean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 06:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on September 28, 2018, 06:16:41 pmwell, life itself is a dilemma

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 09:43:38 pm
content: One way to approach buying FPGA boards is to realize that the first board you buy won't be the last board you buy. Because of this, it doesn't matter much what the board has because, inevitably, you will need something else later.Better to just buy a board with the best documentation/tutorials within an acceptable price range. I remember my first Spartan II board and all the little peripheral boards that plugged in to add things like SRAM, switches and LEDs. The good news was that there was a tutorial re: installing ISE and getting an LED to blink. It was kind of scary because the board(s) were expensive 15 years of so back. And I had no idea what I was getting into.I knew logic design from college but that was decades before, we used TTL (maybe even RTL or DTL) and we actually had to learn to minimize expressions. Today, the synthesis tool does all the work.The point is, if you can get an LED to blink, a large number of things have to be working. The toolchain is properly installed, you can successfully copy and paste the code and it actually synthesizes plus the JTAG cable makes a connection to the programming port. This is HUGE! If all that works (and it will), the rest is just details.That URUK board has some 'gadgets' along with headers and connectors. If the tutorial is decent, this could be a really great board.

author: AndreZheng
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2018, 12:42:17 am
content: Take a look at this QMTECH Artix7 board. The main FPGA is Xilinx XC7A35T which has 35K LEs. If you want to have it, I can give you a diploma price with 50% off.https://www.ebay.com/itm/QMTECH-Xilinx-FPGA-Artix7-Artix-7-Core-Board-XC7A35T-32MB-SDRAM/173165680114?hash=item28517a95f2:g:8cMAAOSw7YlaiUbq

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2018, 10:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 28, 2018, 03:41:10 pmThere's also a course on Udemy for getting started, which seems like a quick and easy way to get started with a MicroZed board. The Linux end is easy to get going on a MicroZed, so it's more about learning to work with Vivado for the platform, creating drivers, etc.https://www.udemy.com/zynq-training-learn-zynq-7000-soc-device-on-microzed-fpgaandhttps://www.udemy.com/learn-fpga-xilinx-vivado-design-suite-training-in-under-1-hour-vhdlNot sure if they still offer these two for $20, which of course is dirt cheap - I bought the bundle but haven't taken either yet, it's next in line after my current project - so I can't personally say anything about either. (I do suspect both are super basic, but for the money just 'getting to blinky' along with simulations and other touring of the tools would make it well spent money IMO, I can take it from there myself.)

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2018, 12:32:56 am
content: The Linux part of Zynq is probably pretty well known. I was thinking of the complications of dropping in something like FreeRTOS and skipping Linux altogether.I'll look into those Udemy courses. I am working on 3 at the moment (not working very hard) so maybe I'll add a couple. Thanks for posting those links.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2018, 12:55:46 am
content: Personally I like those little cyclone II boards. It's quite an old fpga, but it's still more than enough for many beginner projects and they are very cheap. I have complete retro computers and 70s arcade games running on those. Old small chip is much faster to compile for too.