Chinese Knockoffs FM8PE53 replace PIC12C508 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mr J
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2012, 04:30:06 am
content: FM8PE53 OTP MCU can replace PIC12C508, PIC12C509I was wondering if anyone have used these knock offs, unfortunately my school is going though a budget crisis and I'm trying to cheapen parts for students to build projects.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2012, 05:05:12 am
content: I'd hardly call a PIC12C508 an expensive chip to start with. It's $1.50 @ x25 from digikey.The students probably spend much more on food every day, and a PIC lasts quite a bit longerYou could probably build the micros into a small box with some added polarity/voltage protection if students destroying them is an issue.And it makes it easier for them to connect things up if there's terminals rather than pins.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 02:29:15 am
content: Offer them extra credit if they use parts they ordered, including samples.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 03:21:17 am
content: Quote from: Mr J on January 12, 2012, 04:30:06 amThe PIC12C50x is expensive because it is mature (obsolete). The FLASH PIC12F50x is half the price and assuming your students don't get to keep their projects you can re-use the ones they managed not to blow up.

author: Mr J
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 04:02:01 am
content: yea but even the cheap parts get expensive in large QTY we typically have to order for 150 students. We typically do about 50 projects each student per year , yes the student keep there projects when completed for free (can't charge them, parents have a bird every year for a required TI-30 calculator, some years if we have enough $$ we spring for them).I don't believe in recycling one project over and over, when I was a student we did that and once I had it up and running I had to take it apart for the next student, it sucked i couldn't bring it home and show it off and I nothing for examples in a portfolio, all that work with nothing to show.So about 7500 projects/units (all one offs) total of various parts (not just the 508's). If I can save a few cents on each part it adds up and I can stretch the tax payer dollar as much as I can. My teaching partner jokes that where like a mini china, lol.Good idea on the extra credit on the free samples NiHaoMike, i will have to think about that. we do get samples for new "in the works" projects and get some donations, we just got 10,000 LM324's so we have about 10 projects in the works with those for next year.For those curious on the projects here is a list of some of the popular ones. Not included on this list are arduino base projects, robotics and laboratories.Breadboard Power Supply ProjectSimple PS 9VSimple sirenNoisy CricketJingle Bells / TeletubbyContinuity CheckerIPOD Amp w/ Power SupplyRinging Phone Light FlasherTemperature ProbeHyper PeppyTalking ClockDrawdio10 Note Piano CircuitCAT 5 Cable TesterVU MeterAC Line TesterMarqueePC Serial O-scope (TLC549)Key LoggerFunction Generator (XR2206)High Power Audio AmpStrobeColor OrganCar Battery Volt MeterPIC SimonFox and Hound (surface mount)Triple P.S.IPOD Charger (boots converter 3V to 5V)Inductance Meter AdapterIPOD Amp (surface mount)Ultrasonic Backup AlarmFM radio (SC1088)Logic Probe SMTFM Mic (SMT)Electronic CandleClap on Clap offPIC Frequency CounterBinary ClockLCD Clock AT89C295Digital RecorderElectronic LockPIC PONG / TetrisDigital Dice (Student Design)TTL Chip ClockFastest Finger First IndicatorAviation Band Receiver2 Meter Receiver

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 05:11:56 am
content: Sounds like you've got a good courseAre there any cheaper alternatives? I just had a look at Digikey's catalogue - search for pic16f, for example, and sort by price. The cheapest DIP in a quantity of 300 is the PIC16F54-I/P, at 52c. It might also be worth checking Microchip Direct, who provide a 25% academic discount, as well as volume discounts for lab orders:http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1444

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 06:05:31 am
content: More than one project per week per student? Wow!

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 06:35:49 am
content: Quote from: westfw on January 13, 2012, 06:05:31 amAmazing, i had 1 project in 4 years!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 07:54:32 am
content: Did you try to talk to Microchip? Since you order a fairly large number of devices and are an education customer, you may be able to work something out. It's gotta be worth something for them that you teach the students PICs, and not any of the competing micros.I think using clones that will probably have lots of undocumented bugs for teaching is a bad idea. I'd rather switch to a cheaper PIC or even 8051 than a cloned PIC. At least one uC manufacturer has got to be interested in selling you cheap micros.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 11:14:50 am
content: If you want the cheapest, '51 is probably going to be the way to go.How about the STC10F/15F series? $0.25 in 1ku.http://www.stc-51.com/stc15f100.php

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 12:46:34 pm
content: bake sale!

author: Mr J
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 08:20:53 pm
content: thaks for the info guys, I didn't know about the educational discount route. I'll have to talk with microchip, atmel and TI and see what they can do. Love the bake sale idea lol "Chip for Chips' chocolate chip cookie sale. All of the donations are from companies switching over the ROHS and we get the NOS lead stuff, perfect for us. And I've been getting some things from china direct LCD's, connectors, etc.Yea we do a lot of projects, I have a student for about 360 hours / year actual seat time (lab and theory) for four years. Not including summer session or dual enrollment. And where located about 30 miles south of Boston that has a huge electronics market. If anyone is interested here is the link to our minimum standards for electronicshttp://www.doe.mass.edu/cte/frameworks/electronics.pdf, we cover way more that whats in the standard but it gives a general idea what we cover.Unfortunately some of the other schools in the area have shut down there electronics programs, about six of them in a 50 miles radius over the past few years, there are many reasons behind this. But for us I want to stretch our budget as much as we can, I don't think where going to get out of this economy slump soon.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2012, 08:49:39 pm
content: I cannot be of any help, apart suggesting to contact Microchip or Atmel and explaining the situation (I believe they are surely interested in maybe 10 future customers), but I want to congratulate for the effort you are doing.Your students actually build something, and do not use only SPICE .About recycling, I do not see it so badly.When I was in technical high school (circa 1967) we recycled even the passive components.I was taught how to solder by replacing the terminals of a 1W resistor with new, longer copper wires.I desoldered about 5 times an UA747 opamp to use it in new projects (it was really expensive then).Best regards

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2012, 09:28:13 am
content: What's the web site for the actual school?

author: slashguitar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2012, 01:05:13 pm
content: Congrats for the work you are doing!!It would be awesome if there were more dedicated teachers like you.I think reusing is the way to go, especially if students are building so many projects. It's pointless to keep boards on your shelf if you are never going to use them again.

author: Mr J
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2012, 03:59:49 am
content: PM sent with web site (westfw)

author: siliconmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2012, 09:15:40 am
content: what about some write once chips as well.then if their projects are working ok.pop a write once chip in there .boom.recycle the reprogrammable ones