I voted today.....It wasn't easy - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 06:33:19 pm
content: New this year, they implemented electronic sign in with a tablet that read the stripe on the drivers license. I was supposed to be better and faster. It complied with the voter ID laws supposed to stop fraud. One sign in machine wouldn't work and the other one was kicking people out because it couldn't find the addresses people had lived at for 20 years. Calls to headquarters were unanswered as this was happening everywhere. Radio broadcast reported it as operator error as the volenteers were given a full three hours of training. It took a little over thirty minutes for me to get signed in.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 06:49:48 pm
content: I had no trouble voting a couple of weeks ago. Here in Canada, a person reads your ID and uses a pen and a ruler to cross your name off the list.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 07:24:37 pm
content: We chucked out our voting machines. Cost a fortune to buy, to store etc. The software was found to be buggy and ran on MS Access. I believe they still use the same machines in parts of the USA.You can't beat the paper and pencil.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 07:48:32 pm
content: I voted a few months ago. It was as simple as walking into the polling station, telling them my name and address and getting my ballot card.

author: donmr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 08:12:08 pm
content: I mailed in my ballot over a week ago, after taking my time to look it over and decide.

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 08:22:59 pm
content: FYI, in the USA it varies by state.According to Wikipedia, 17 states do not require ID for voting.My experience in California is walk in, give your name and they hand you your ballot.Usually now I just vote by mail.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 08:39:41 pm
content: In Illinois (USA), one does not need an ID to vote on election day at one's local precinct.There is a generous amount of time before election day (approximately 40 days) where early voting is allowed at a limited number of locations (roughly 50 in the city of Chicago), but ID is required since one is not local.The TV networks thought this was funny when President Obama came back to Chicago to vote on an early day, and the judge straightforwardly asked him for ID, but that was required by law.In some other states, the early voting time is very stingy, obviously to reduce the turnout of unwanted voters.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 08:54:36 pm
content: QuoteI've heard that argument enough times and somehow, although it may reduce the number of voters, I consider it a side effect instead of a reason why it's done this way.Regards,Tim Fox

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 08:57:02 pm
content: So much easier to just declare yourself an illegal alien.They just hand you a ballot without any embarassing questions.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 09:01:36 pm
content: Here voting goes with a pencil. It never fails... most of the time...This guy explains the risks of electronic voting.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 09:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 03, 2015, 08:57:02 pmIllegal? Did you mean undocumented voter?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 10:06:28 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 03, 2015, 09:08:00 pmYou don't have to be a citizen anymore to vote in many states of the USA. You only need a driver's licence and you are automatically registered to vote whether you have the legal right or not. Even Mexico has more strict laws for voting than California does.Of course that is illegal under Federal Law, but even parts of the government have decreasing respect for other parts of the government. What a zoo.Ref:https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1461

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 11:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 03, 2015, 09:08:00 pmUndocumented ****mocrat.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:06:21 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on November 03, 2015, 08:54:36 pmIllegal in Australia---Youhaveto vote,& anyone stopping you inanymanner is in big trouble.(From huge fines to becoming Bubba's "new special friend",type trouble!)If you fail to vote of your own volition,you will be fined--it is only a very small amount,though!No ID needed---you turn up at your Polling place on Saturday (always Saturday),give your name,the person behind the desk asks"Have you voted elsewhere today?"You say,"No",get your paper,vote,then put the folded paper in the box--done!

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:55:51 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 01:06:21 amWait what? You're legally obligated to show up and "do your civic duty"? That's a sure-fire way to get me tonotvote, and throw the bill for the fine in the trash.(And yes, I do vote (... in Norway obvs); I'm just immensely opposed to the gov't telling people that theyhaveto do something completely arbitrary - more votes does not mean better government.)

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 02:38:51 am
content: Quote from: ovnr on November 04, 2015, 01:55:51 amIt isn't really "the gov't telling you what to do"--Governments come & go.It is just the law of the land,like having to pay taxes or have a driving licence to drive a car.The fine is tiny for individuals,& you can probably claim to be a "conciencious objector",anyway,if you really don't want to go to the Polling place.Once there,as long as you are marked off the list,you have been given the opportunity to make a valid vote.If you don't want to actually vote,you can put the blank ballot paper in the box (called voting "Informal"in Oz)The whole idea is to stop someone employing "heavies" to stop people voting who don't want to vote the way a particular element want them to!"more votes does not mean better government."No ,but it means morerepresentationalgovernment,& perhaps a stronger Opposition!The Australian system has worked well for many years-----better than many others.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 02:45:21 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 01:06:21 amAnd stay back for the sausage sizzle

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 03:09:23 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 01:06:21 am$55 actually ($50 fine plus GST).However, if you deliberately or inadvertently fail to pay it, then your drivers licence and/or vehicle registration is cancelled.That's when it can get very expensive.How do I know these details?A few years ago, a clever computerised system was implemented (called "Smartroll") that automatically enrolled people. I was so lucky, I was enrolled in the system twice (at different addresses). Naturally, I only voted once, but it took over a year to have this extra enrollment (and subsequent non-voting fine) cancelled.The kicker - same thing happened next election!Fun times.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:03:38 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 01:06:21 amAll you have to do is have to have your name marked off, submit a postal vote or notify the AEC that you'll be absent. There is nothing unlawful about an invalid vote (including getting your name marked off and walking out the door again).On a different note, I actually think voting should be optional. Leave those who don't give a shit and/or don't pay taxes (with some exceptions) out of it.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:36:21 am
content: Quote from: ovnr on November 04, 2015, 01:55:51 amHere also. Nor voting could result in a fine of upto 300 dollars. In practice: Classified/No timeThat obligation ensures that even the most retarded and uninterested people elect who decides everything I have to do, and that gives me a huge warm and honest feeling.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 09:31:53 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 04, 2015, 07:36:21 amI dont know who was the moron who came up with compulsory voting, but at least they totally discouraged me to even think of getting belgian nationality.I would really turn around this system, and ask like 3 questions, that even the simpletons can answer, if they are any way interested in politics. If the questions are not answered correctly, the vote is nil.They can even announce the questions beforehand.Not that i'm a least bit interested in belgian politics.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 09:39:51 am
content: Quote from: cimmo on November 04, 2015, 03:09:23 amSame goes for any unpaid fine. I don't actually disagree with it. You receive a letter in the mail at least 30-days prior to a "Fine Default Suspension". However SmartRoll I disagree with.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:34:48 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 02:38:51 amAh, but paying taxes and requiring a license hasmeasurable benefits for society. And making a blank vote is obviously an option, but it's still a vote for "yes please, I quite like doing pointless things".As for it preventing blocs from preventing voting - you'd think that it wasn't really a problem in a nominally civilized country (I do hope I'm not overestimating Australia though), and that there were better solutions to it.Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 02:38:51 amAh, yes. Because having 50+% of your votes cast by uninterested people who don't give a shit either way is productive. Sure, gov't can go strolling around telling everyone "But this is what EVERYONE wanted! You should thank us!"; although that happens regardless of voter turnout.As for representational government, last election I voted for a normally minority party that ended up on 2nd place; they subsequently got scared of "everything getting ruined" (i.e. losing their precious positions of prestige and power), and have dropped all their controversial policies, much to mydelight.Ahh, if only politicians were physically capable of thinking ahead more than four years, or whatever your election cycle is...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:59:51 am
content: Quote from: ovnr on November 04, 2015, 10:34:48 amThat is one of our very major problems! I was having this exact discussion today (plus talking about housing). With the way Sydney is going, I wouldn't be surprised to see actual slums popping up in the next 10-20 years. Yes, it's a very broad view, but it's happening already in parts of South-west Sydney.A scene from BTTF Part II springs to mind.EDIT: OK, "slum" might be a bit harsh but you get my point. The sound of a Harley motorcycle driving past is enough to bother me.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 12:35:15 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on November 04, 2015, 03:25:32 amPardon me, but youhave no rightto bitch and moan about who has or has not been elected. You freely admitted that you do not vote. Your stance has been made clear. You do not give a shit, so stop throwing your shit around.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: cimmo on November 04, 2015, 03:09:23 amIn what way does that count as a SERVICE?!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:11:18 pm
content: Quote from: ovnr on November 04, 2015, 10:34:48 amThere are a lot of people at both extremes of the political spectrum[ who will gladly relieve you of such onerous duties.Of course,your "duties" in theGulagmay be considerably more onerous!QuoteThe idea comes from the Founding Fathers of our country,back in the late 18th Century,long before Federation,when the vote was a fairly rare & highly valued thing in "civilised countries".They weren't far wrong,as witness the disastrous mess some such countries got themselves into during the 20th Century.Of course,the Nazis didn't have a lot of problems preventing their political opponents from voting,they just bashed them & later,when they took over,killed them!QuoteWe have another thing which will freak you out!It's called Preferential Voting,which means your vote isn't lost,even if you vote for a minority Party candidate,-----you still get a say,as your vote goes to the candidate for the next Party you selected,& so on.If you hate one Party,can tolerate one,& support yet another,if your favourite one doesn't get enough votes,you can hopefully ensure the hated one loses.Another thing is Single Member Electorates.With these,if a candidate massively increases his vote after he already has a winning margin,it doesn't do his Party one bit of good!Because of these things,normally,the Party which forms Government may only have 53% of the vote as against the Opposition having 47%,but they may have achieved many more seats.This "knife -edge" sort of situation, means the govt knows damn well that nearly half the people didn't want their policies!The overall percentage of "uninterested" people would be way less than 50%---more like 20%.QuoteThat's why we have Elections--the people who didn't like their "about face" can vote against them at the next one!QuoteThe USSR didn't have that problem,but they still managed to stuff things up !

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 02:44:48 pm
content: I always suggest to people who are of the "oh I never vote, they're all as bad as each other" type, that they simply vote directlyagainsttheir current MP / representative. After a few cycles, politicians might realise that it isn't quite the cushy job for life any more, they get 5 years at it, unless they actually do something good for their constituents.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 06:02:31 pm
content: Voting next year, and the usual things will happen. Will go vote again at the Scout hall, last time i stood in line for 2 hours before doing it, and got my finger marked. Would help as well if they actually got an indelible ink that lasted, 30 seconds with a swab and it was gone, not even visible under UV light. Choice of parties, just choose those you dislike the least and put the cross next to them.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 06:55:36 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on November 04, 2015, 09:31:53 amI'm also a supporter of that idea. Some kind of short entrance exam.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 07:35:32 pm
content: In my state, most voting is done with optically scanned paper ballots, like the Scantron sheets for tests in school. There are still some areas that use mechanical lever machines because they are faster, but paper ballots are preferred because they leave an auditable record and make the voter's intent clearer if there is a recount. The list is kept by volunteers with pens, one for checking in to receive a ballot, and a separate list to check out when putting the ballot in the box (which also scans it for the electronic count).

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on November 04, 2015, 02:44:48 pmHaha. We've flip-flopped between political extremes for decades. The politicians have yet to realize it's their fault. They just blame eachother foreverything that's ever wrong, even if it's their own fault or not.

author: Kostas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 11:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 04, 2015, 01:11:18 pmPreferential voting is an excellent idea, too bad we don't have such a thing over here.I used to abstain for many years; I just didn't believe that any of the choices I had were any good. Lately I've done a U turn, but not because I've found a party to support. I just vote the lesser of the evils from my point of view. Am I cynical? Maybe, but far too many people support a political party just like their football team: blind devotion, no doubt, no critique whatsoever. The very people who will not miss an opportunity to vote their party.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 06:26:35 pm
content: Quote from: helius on November 04, 2015, 07:35:32 pmIn Texas, the voting machines I've seen have a thumb wheel that rotates and your selection moves up and down the LCD and you press a select button.http://www.austinchronicle.com/imager/b/original/446379/7ac9/ESlate.jpg

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 07:36:48 pm
content: It's easier in the UK, voting anyone in has no discernible difference to the actual outcome,ones views an immigration, employment, foreign policy, education or health are irrelevant because all parties only pay lip service to people.Like Corbyn's ideal of open borders is in practice identical to Cameron's policy of closed borders, because immigrants don't give a stuff what your political policy is.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 08:06:29 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 06, 2015, 06:26:35 pmThat looks very usable and would potentially be much faster than filling in 10 bubbles and waiting for the ink to dry. However the concerns of the Computerphile video are obvious: Each of these machines needs to be programmed somehow for the list of candidates prior to each election.When using paper ballots scanned by a machine built into the ballot box, this programming is not needed. The machine simply counts the bubbles that are filled in and records them for transmission to a server (I realize that there are problems with the second step, but let that pass). There are optical marks pre-printed on the ballot for alignment and potentially other parameters such as multiple seat races and write-in spaces. The ballot can be scanned on both sides with one pass, and it is marked in red so that it cannot be fed into the machine more than once. Because each voter must check in and check out, ballots can't be sneaked out of the voting area or replaced with outside ballots (voters are observed and have only minimal privacy for their choices, not full privacy with curtains). The ballots are visible when placed in the box, but video surveillance would be needed to monitor each voter's choices. I hope they take precautions for that but it's unlikely they do.Overall I think that it's a good system, and while not perfect from a security standpoint it saves labor and makes the results available sooner, which is important for maintaining voter confidence.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:46:05 am
content: Quote from: helius on November 06, 2015, 08:06:29 pmFor auditing purposes it would be nice if in addition to recording your selection electronically, that it also take a screenshot of the display, and then have some kind of OCR processor do a comparison of each.