I bought a cheap Chinese video door bell - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Lango1818
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 06:17:32 am
content: :palm:Having not researched the topic I deserved everything I got.I did not realize that the majority of “video doorbells” have to contact the mothership (Cloud) in order to work. Silly me thought that you could just hook it up to you LAN install a bit of software and bibbity boo off you go. OH No when someone is at the door, the video feed shoot off into cyber space, probably to China, and then comes back through your internet.If anyone is on the market for a vid doorbell steer well clear of any that use the Aiwit app. It is absolutely shit. It can take up to 8 seconds to show video and has numerous other faults. The app blames slow internet connection; maybe on their end my connection is fine.As I cannot seem to find a video doorbell that does not involve a cloud of some sort and monthly fees I think I will run with a conventional door bell and a camera hooked to my camera system. My camera system works fine locally and I love it.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 07:51:56 am
content: I cannot speak of doorbells but I can speak of cheap security IP cameras but I suppose the basic way of working is the same.If I want to see the camera from another location then obviously it needs to do so using the internet. Not only to communicate directly but also to establish the connection initially. Two devices wishing to establish a connection need a central server where they both log in and then the server tells each other their IP addresses.I have a remote switch which I bought in LIDL and which worked briefly because the company disappeared and there is no way for my app to connect to a central server.But, getting back to my cameras, the app does have a way to connect directly to cameras on the same LAN without need to connect to the Internet. There is some obscure little button and then you enter the IP address (if I remember correctly).I have also managed to see the camera streams with VLC and Linux.I think it is very probable, almost certain, that you can use the camera on the LAN with no Internet.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 08:01:29 am
content: What is the point of a video doorbell (the modern type, not the composite video type that connects to a small screen on the other side of the door), if it is not connected to the internet?Such a camera is used so that you can do a video call to whomever is at your door, while you are not at home. Ideally this should be combined with an electronic door lock, so that you can open the door remotely, too.However: visit the Lockpicking Layer's Youtube channel and check what he has to say on electronic door locks. They are all rubish and can be defeated easily (using magnets, high power RF coils, etc.).Also, you need to use a third party server, so that your phone knows the current IP of your video doorbell. Of course, a technical user could just configure everything to use DynDNS (or similar) and would not require a third party server. But this does not work for everybody. If you have a 4G/5G internet connection, it will not work. If your ISP filters incoming requests, it will not work. If your ISP provides you with a locked router, it will not work.What you have to do is to purchase the video doorbell from a reputable manufacturer. I consider TP Link and their TAPO range of devices reputable. They work for me. I am not sure if they do include a video doorbell, though.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 09:20:23 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 17, 2023, 08:01:29 amYou should not make the mistake of thinking that everybody has your same needs, likes, wishes and desires. Different people have different needs and different preferences.I have a house with three levels, four sides, a big back yard, a front gate, etc. I have several CCTV IP cameras for security and convenience and I can observe any and all from anywhere. When I am in my computer room I have a screen showing several camera feeds and can see everything going on around the house, including the front gate. if it is an unwanted visitor I can just ignore it without having to move from where I am or disclosing that I am home.I could give many examples of the usefulness to me of my security cameras, including the front gate. I can ignore calls, I can pretend to not be home or to be busy. I am just so used to seeing all around the house without moving from wherever I am.About a year ago two young men in plain clothes called and said they were police and wanted to talk to me. I said I would come out and talk to them as soon as I saw a police car with uniformed police. It turned out they were legit and did call for a patrol unit but there have been cases of police impersonators robbing people in their homes.But, yes, these cheap cameras are extremely vulnerable and full of back doors. I only have them connected to the internet very exceptionally and they are all pointing outdoors so that they will never show anything private.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 09:21:29 am
content: Quote from: soldar on September 17, 2023, 07:51:56 amWrong. They only need that when you have no idea what you're doing and can't open a port in your router.Quote from: BicuricoI have a remote display for my front door camera so I can see who is there from my office instead of tramping through the place to tell a JW we're satanists. Our doorbell flashes a light in the (remote) garage so we can nip out and get the Amazon package before he buggers off. There are many reasons why a non-internet-connected camera is useful; it's just thatyouhaven't discovered them yet.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 09:41:48 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on September 17, 2023, 09:21:29 amI would be open to talking about this with someone with more respect and better manners. In your case I'll just put you on ignore.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 10:17:02 am
content: Quote from: soldar on September 17, 2023, 07:51:56 amUsually the cameras have a URI for direct access to the video stream. So you tell VLC that URI and then enjoy the video stream. There is also open source CCTV software available.Quote from: PlainName on September 17, 2023, 09:21:29 amWith all the security issues of security cameras it's a bad idea to make them directly accessible from the outside. The standard procedure is to put them into a separate VLAN and use a VPN for remote access.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 10:45:49 am
content: Quote from: madires on September 17, 2023, 10:17:02 amI use VLC to view the cameras with my Linux computer. The URI is in the formrtsp://192.168.143.143:554/user=admin_password=neZ31SSM_channel=1_stream=0.sdp?real_streamQuote from: madires on September 17, 2023, 10:17:02 amThat is the way I have it but, for , I have quite a complex network configuration anyway.The thing is that consumer goods are oriented to the home user who has no idea and no desire to learn or get involved in complex configurations. They want to plug it in and have it working. In a world of changing IP addresses, changing devices, etc. the simplest way is to have a central server connect the two devices which are trying to connect to each other. Home customers want something that works out of the box; they do not want to spend an afternoon in frustration trying to configure a network which might work for a while but might not work after a while.As I say, I got ripped off by LIDL when I bought an Internet switch which, supposedly, would allow me to switch a device on or off over the Internet. It soon stopped working because the server stopped working. Maybe I could figure out how to tinker with the device and the app so I could get it to work but it is just not worth ten minutes of my time, much less several hours.Many apps rely on central servers to establish a connection. Remote desktop like Anydesk (recommended) or Teamviewer, video conference, remote camera viewing, etc.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 11:52:55 am
content: I didn't mean to sound offensive, sorry if it seemed like that.The application you describe would be a simple IP webcam for me, not a video door bell.In your case, I would recommend a TAP camera. I have many of them and they work fairly well. You get the usual server cloud connection, they try to sell you a subscription for cloud based recording, complimentary to SD card recording, but I never used that. You can access the cameras via IP address, however, if you buy one of the motorized cameras, you won't be able to control it in any way without the app.What I have done to use the cameras on my PC is to install an Android emulator/virtual machine and then you get the Google Play and can install the TAPO app. That works surprisingly well. The nice thing about TAPO is that they have different types of cameras, wall plugs, lamps, etc. You can combine everything in their APP and apparently you can even create some rules (I never tried it). The TAPO hardware integrates with Google Home, too. This means you can ask Google Nest/Home/Whatever to switch on a light or stream the camera video to the TV. I doubt that TP Link and TAPO will close business in the next years, so it seems a good enough investment. I especially like the availability (big supermarkets and stores have them) and the price is great: under 10 Euro for a IP wall plug, 20-40 Euro for a camera, the outdoor weather-proof camera goes for around 45-50 Euro. They have a more expensive one, too.If you want to really have something better, the way could be via Raspberry Pi with the Raspberry Camera module. Print your enclosure and access it via VLC?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 12:51:41 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 17, 2023, 11:52:55 amNot at all.Quote from: Bicurico on September 17, 2023, 11:52:55 amI mentioned the cameras because basically they work the same way and the video door bell just adds a very minimal pushbutton ringer capability. But the networking process of connecting from your phone over the internet is basically the same. The first step is getting both ends to connect and that is the same in both cases.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 01:22:53 pm
content: Quote from: madires.Yes, you do need to be aware of issues. However I was taking to task the statement that you must have a server between the two. My response may have been a bit strong but, IMO, that kind of 'info' is how bad myths start. It would have been much better to note that a server isn't actually needed but is probably an appropriate solution for most users.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 01:25:41 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on September 17, 2023, 07:51:56 amA central server is only required if the endpoints do not accept incoming connections, like with network address translation. This is becoming even more of a problem with carrier grade NAT.If the devices are at routable IP addresses and the needed ports are open, or if port forwarding is used with NAT, then the devices can directly communicate.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 01:59:17 pm
content: I forgot to mention that a better alternative to open ports might well be a VPN. Surely every router does that nowadays, but a Pi or something should be simple enough to set up, and far more secure than some random cloud company intent only on locking you into their market.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 02:11:02 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on September 17, 2023, 01:25:41 pmIf my home network is using dynamic IPV4 public address and it changes the other end needs a way to find out what the new address is and this requires a server which can be permanently found, whether it be the server provided by the provider of the service or something like dydns.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2023, 01:03:50 am
content: Quote from: soldar on September 17, 2023, 02:11:02 pmThat is true, although dynamic IPs rarely change for most users.I do not really consider using a dynamic DNS or other DNS service as an "external server" in the common sense.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2023, 10:51:17 am
content: Domestic consumers are not going to buy devices which require what to them is a complicated configuration. They want plug and play. They want to plug in the device, download the app and start playing. That is what the consumer market demands and that is what the suppliers offer. As the OP has found out.I have a device which has stopped working because the central server no longer exists. The notion that I could modify the device and the app to work independently of the server is just not practical or realistic.Any device which requires the user to be knowledgeable about network configurations is not going to sell to homeowners who want to DIY. It would be something directed to a pro market with totally different requirements, expectations and prices.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2023, 12:43:50 pm
content: I actively block external access for devices such as cameras, and avoid anything which requires an external server. They go on a separate SSID and network which is blocked from both external access, and access to other internal networks and devices. Connections are limited to only incoming.Since I determine their IP, access could be through just the IP number, but in practice I assign their IP through DHCP and my DNS resolver intercepts DNS requests to return their IP as needed. I do not consider this an "external server" since it just replaces static IP assignment which is more cumbersome.Of course I am hardly a typical consumer and agree that domestic consumers are not going to put in this kind of effort.