First time thermal camera buyer on ~ 300 euros budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sorbet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 09:59:23 am
content: I have been wanting to buy a thermal camera for a while now, but put it off until I moved to a new house. But finally, I have moved into a new corner house from the 70s, I want to buy a new thermal camera mostly for home inspection and then own DIY insulation improvement projects. This year I also want to replace several windows and doors with better insulation (HR++ or HR+++ & insulated doors).I missed the great black friday offer where many people could buy Guide PC210 for <250euros. That would have been perfect for my use (I think ;-)) because currently the massive discounts are no longer available on Aliexpress. The local NL shop (eleshop) is selling the same model for 395euros now! However, I see UTi260A for a 275euro on Ali. What do you think of this camera for my use case? Or are there nice cameras or deals currently that you have come across? In case for very good value for money, I can stretch my budget by about 100-ish euros.Thank you all!

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 02:15:05 pm
content: Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 09:59:23 amOK but home.inspection is not just pointing and shooting. You need some preperation and you need some knowledge about buildings and thermography to come to the right conculsions. See my posts at that thread - I have mentioned there exactly that in greater detail:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/400-450-to-spend-on-first-thermal-camera/Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 09:59:23 am... that's a solid camera for a good price but it has also a few pitfalls. I still would consider it the best one in the price-range till 400 EUR. And you have at least a useable software to fine-tune and analyze images or create reports. I also like the fact itQuote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 09:59:23 amI wouldnotrecommand a UTi260A or the other UTi models for two reasons:1. they don't allow to set level and span manually which make it really hard to compare things or to work with the camera in some cases2. they have no useful software to analyze and fine-tune thermal imagesFor reason no. 1 I would also not recommend a InfiRay C200.So in fact I would suggest to stretch the budget to 400 EUR at least and go with a PC210. If you could go even a bit further and get a Hikmicro Pocket2 or B10 / B20 - you would have the best package with better software.If you really need to stay within the budget you can have a look at aInfiRay P2 Pro(USB-C phone accessory thermal imager). This one has no MIF / MSX / iMix / Fusion technology and only the Android- or iOS Software to analyze the images but it provide a decent quality and OK-ish analysis features.I have uploaded 2 images of the PC210 and 2 from the P2. The P2 upscale the images quite a lot that's why they look worse at first glance. Downsized to the same size the 2 cameras are pertty close in therms of image quality.

author: sorbet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 03:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on January 03, 2023, 02:15:05 pmThanks for the answer, I have read through the previous post. If Hikmicro P2 has same resolution and other general specs, what makes it a better & expensive purchase? Is it just a better product + good software than Guide?Looking at Hikmicro Pocket2, I see it is also chinese made, but not sold via Aliexpress. I see them sold at diverse stores such as Conrad, etc with a list price of 688euro for P2. Are these shops the best location to buy this camera?PC210 does have a very good value-for-money ratio and I am inclined to buy that in the end. Does buying it from Ali come with the usual 2-yr warranty EU-webshops offer? If not, then the extra cost for counting on EU-warranty might be worthwhile. Then again, for other electronic purchases in my past, I hardly ever needed the warranty...choices.

author: sorbet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 03:42:57 pm
content: I also came across the Guide PF210 for about 530euro on Eleshop. It looks quite similar to Hikmicro P2 but almost 150e cheaper!Anyone has experience with it?

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 09:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 03:38:45 pmP2 is a phone accessory camera from Infiray. The Pocket2 is from Hikmicro.The things what make the Pocket2 better are a dealer network with local support (e.g. for calibration), better software and relaiable measurements. The Pocket2 let me set a reflected temp. of -60°C in case I have to deal with reflections from the sky. The camera also factors the reflected temp. in correctly. The Guide PC210 don't do that. Long story short - I would be confident to write an report with the Pocket2 but not with a PC210.Above all TIC are pretty complex measurement devices which need to do many internal calculations based on many factors to come up with a correct result.But if that become an issue for you or not depends on the application. For electronics work I would not mind if measurements are a little off because it don't matter if a shorted capacitor is reaching 80, 90 or 100°C - the only thing that matters is that's the one component which get much hotter than every other.For building inspections I would rather have a tool like a Pocket2. You can go with a B10 to save a bit money.Also don't underestimate the reporting and work in software. You can't set always all in camera because you need to deal with farious emissivity values for different points or some other things. You often want to use things like isotherms, alarms or dew-point warnings. So you need the software in many cases.Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 03:38:45 pmI would go with a dealer within the EU or even your country. It would make any RMA much easier in case you would need it. With a local spezialized dealer you would probably get also some tipps & tricks in case you have some questions or issues with the camera. Keep in mind you will need to learn a few things to get relaiable results...Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 03:38:45 pmUsually that should work also on aliexpress. I would personally not value the easier RMA as a very big benefit but you could fall into the arms of customs and then you end up adding 100-150 EUR to the price for customs and the form filling fees of a company like DHL.Sellers on aliexpress often declare the value with 10 EUR so that you don't pay customs but I had also cases where I had to deal with it and I had to show how much I payed...So if I can choose I search a seller in aliexpress which ships from FR / DE / CZ / ...Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 03:38:45 pmI have no hands-on experience but I have talked with guide about it for a while. It's an interesting option and I also like the laserpointers on the Guide cameras but I can't tell you if the PF210 also has the same wired behavior with the reflected temp.And I can't say if you are able to set -60°C as reflected temp. The PC210 can't set a lower RAT then -20°C and as I mentioned it get not factored in!

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 10:21:34 pm
content: I forget to mention something...I can't tell if the PF210 has the same temp. drift when you work in cold environments as c00kemon discovered on his PC210:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-review/msg4547105/#msg4547105I have tested that and my PC210 does also drift but by far not that much as c00kemon's PC210!I also checked my cameras and the PC210 come with a QC-Passed and warranty-card but the Pocket2 has a dedicated calibration certificate and I can send the camera to a german reseller to renew the calibration cert. each year if I need that. I was a bit surprised when I saw that - as far as I know does FLIR and Fluke charge extra for cert. cameras (please correct me if I am wrong)!

author: sorbet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 11:00:46 pm
content: That really helps clarify, thanks. I was referring to Pocket2 as P2 without realising it was an altogether different camera model - my bad.This basically boils down to PC210 or take the big plunge with higher budget and but Hikmicro B10 or Pocket2. I am going to sleep over this.

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 11:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on January 03, 2023, 10:21:34 pmSounds like the German seller is doing the certification for free?Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 11:00:46 pmCan recommend the Pocket 2. I only hear good things about it. It also has the far better display compared to the B20.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 12:08:03 am
content: Quote from: katzenhai2 on January 03, 2023, 11:17:46 pmNo - the re-calibration or rather checking if the camera has drifted cost something. Cameras get shipped usually to the manufactorer for adjustments and the local partners just test them and issue a calibration cert. if all in still OK.A Flir with such a calibration cert. cost usually more then an example without cert.:https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-imaging-cameras/2016982https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-imaging-cameras/2016980So at least the initial calibrations is for free.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 02:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: sorbet on January 03, 2023, 11:00:46 pmThis are some sample thermal images from a Pocket 2