Innovators: How do you rise above the crowd? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Silenus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 07:43:29 am
content: As someone who is studying Electrical Engineering and is interested in developing new tech, I often find myself overwhelmed by the number of ideas out there. Lately I have been trying to think of original ideas to pursue further and possibly showcase my value as an innovator. The only problem is that 99% of things I think of that have any realistic merit have already been done by a number of other people who usually have more knowledge and experience in the field not to mention access to better facilities.For those of you out there who are innovators, how often do you feel under-educated in the fields you work on? Do you think it's better to think of an original idea and then study up on the theory behind that background, or should I focus on learning something specific that interests me and limit my innovation to that subject?

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 09:16:11 am
content: Can't say I qualify as an "innovator" but in my opinion it is something you cannot learn. Having more knowledge always helps but "thinking outside the box" is much harder to learn.You also need to remember that ideas themselves are pretty much useless/worthless (unless they are extremely good), it is the execution of these ideas that bring value and money to companies (and you).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 09:34:13 am
content: Have you heard the term: putting the horse before the cart ?You first need to spend some time in the industry and then the knowledge and experience gained will help you see the opportunities.Asmojo-chanpoints out, often you can greatly improve on products, the trick is to do it in a simple and elegant way.Knowledge and experience is the key, take your time and gain both....and keep your eyes open.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 09:37:56 am
content: Quote from: Silenus on August 29, 2014, 07:43:29 amThere are a huge number of problems out there that you cannot solve, simply because you don't even know they exist. You'll stumble into some of them from time to time, though. Most good ideas come from keeping your eyes and ears open when you stumble into something new to you that isn't being handled awfully well. The important thing is that when opportunity comes knocking, don't draw the curtains and stuff your fingers in your ears.As for what you don't know........ most of us are pretty narrow in our knowledge, even if we might like to think of ourselves as polymaths (doesn't that mean we know more than one branch of maths?). Solving most problems is going to involve picking up some domain specific knowledge, however much an expert in your own field you might be. People with problems are often very willing to teach you the necessary knowledge about their problems.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 09:59:03 am
content: Quote from: Silenus on August 29, 2014, 07:43:29 amThat's your problem right there.When you call yourself an "innovator" or "inventor" or "entrepreneur" you've automatically set yourself up for failure IMO.You are thinking too hard about it, just do stuff and see where it leads.

author: Silenus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 10:29:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 29, 2014, 09:59:03 amI understand where you are coming from, it's not something you can force and I agree. I guess, as an undergrad, I feel a lot of pressure to compete with everyone around me and to showcase my abilities so that I can increase my chances of entering my preferred career. I feel as though I have been sold the idea that to be successful as an engineer, you have to be able to solve problems that others haven't and this is reiterated through things like hackathons, crowd-funding and articles outlining "new inventions!" that you see all the time. Im not looking for a "how to" guide on being an innovator, but more so asking those who find themselves in a competitive market, how they strategise when coming up with new ideas.

author: abaxas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 10:56:23 am
content: Luck is by far the most important part of any success, especially in terms of being an entrepreneur.Luck > marketing > product sadly.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 10:57:40 am
content: Think of existing "world changing" technologies and how they can be adapted/utilized/exploited and linked with other new or existing technologies to create new technologies.....call it daydreaming if you will.A fine example of a vision and a top team of key people working on it is here in Auckland NZ with world leading products with worldwide coverage and sales.http://www.internationaltelematics.com/#/HomeTechnologies used in this case: GPS, Cellular data, Accelerometers, vehicle ECU, data logging, RFID etc all tied together to process and relay data for further analysis at a mainframe to provide customers a wide range of information.No doubt there are many fine examples of such vision.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 11:25:33 am
content: Quote from: Silenus on August 29, 2014, 10:29:50 amYou don't need new ideas, you just need to be enthusiastic and show that you can produce good stuff.Most employers won't care squat about how "innovative" you are.Can you do the job?, and do they like you?, that's it.The first part you show by the stuff you have done, no fancy innovation required.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 03:22:25 pm
content: Most people who make something remarkable start at a big company. Big company asks them to design stupid stuff. They realize that they would do this much better and they make their own company. Selling stuff like crazy, trending, being the cool manufacturer. And then they need marketing to sell more stuff. And more engineer because there are more problems than the core team can handle. At this point they are either bought or they keep growing. End scenario is they become the stupid big company employing brilliant people to design trivial stuff, layers of management making the same mistakes. The circle is closed.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 03:29:21 pm
content: You don't necessarily need to have the next $10m kickstarter to make money.Instead, try picking some niche markets that have crap products. As a poor example, take the septic system monitoring market. All the existing solutions are crap. One could clean up by simply shipping and supporting/marketing a baseline solid product.

author: Silenus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 04:43:11 pm
content: Quote from: marshallh on August 29, 2014, 03:29:21 pmBut yeah, I get what you are saying.Quote from: EEVblog on August 29, 2014, 11:25:33 amI was hoping this was the reality of the industryI guess it's easy to get carried away by the hype of these tech-startups and kickstarter campaigns until you begin to think thats the way to make it. I prefer to get in on my demonstrated knowledge of ABC's, not how much wow factor I have. Thanks for giving me some better perspective.Quote from: NANDBlog on August 29, 2014, 03:22:25 pmDo you think that large successful companies such as google, intel, microsoft, IBM, apple etc. have fallen into these mistakes? or are they just well known and established enough to hire the right people to keep successful products coming out?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 07:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: Silenus on August 29, 2014, 04:43:11 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/google-20-percent-time_n_3768586.htmlhttp://theclosetentrepreneur.com/an-ex-employees-thoughts-on-intelhttp://www.thewire.com/technology/2012/07/inside-bureaucracy-crippled-microsoft/54143/http://www.businessweek.com/chapter/mills.htmhttp://www.businessinsider.com/apple-employees-confess-all-the-worst-things-about-working-at-apple-2014-4

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 07:55:10 pm
content: Most of those companies are moving forward under inertia, while losing bits and pieces of themselves along the way.IBM hasn't really been relevant for years. They are now mostly a contracting company that has the resources to develop large-scale solutions. It won't be the cheapest, it won't be the best, it won't be the most innovative -- but if you have enough money, they can eventually make something that does what you want.Microsoft is struggling to stay relevant. Out of their entire portfolio, they really only have Windows, Exchange, and Office. Most of their stamina is just because they cover the complete business infrastructure (Windows Server, Exchange, IIS, SQL Server, etc.), and becauseeveryoneneeds to read .doc files. Linux + Apache is a better web server, NetWare was a better directory service, Exchange is kind of in a niche that for some reason no one else has been able to capture (although some have tried and failed), SQL Server is somewhere between MySQL and Oracle -- one or both of which could probably take over any given application just as well. If Linux had better PR and some good project managers, Microsoft would drown. Interestingly, Apple had the opportunity to play the long game here, and instead, cashed in their chips.Intel is constantly just inching past AMD on the desktop market, and is losing ground to ARM in the portable space. Server-wise, they're still doing quite well. They're on a bit of a precipice now.Apple isn't really so much an innovator as just the right product at the right time. iPods were not the first music players -- but using a hard drive was a smart move. The iPhone wasn't the first PDA + phone, but when the tech got good enough to be consumer-compatible, it was the first one to put the pieces together in the right order. They're surprisingly capable of rising from the dead, but their current success isn't permanent either.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 08:55:03 pm
content: As I read the comments, I don't think I am the only one here who absolutely doesn't like the word "innovation"In my country, it's too often used as if it was a button that can be switched from off to on, by making some government trow money at it.Dictating what has to be innovated, mostly obscure or oldfashion stuff.In complete contrast to the youth that wants to build, develop cool and interesting stuff.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 09:09:17 pm
content: Quote from: SirNick on August 29, 2014, 07:55:10 pmMicrosoft once invested in Apple when Apple badly needed it. And suddenly Apple looked elsewhere for enemies to destroy. After receiving th Microsoft cash Steve Jobs announced "we have to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose."QuoteApple manages to do one thing quite often: To be just a bit better than the rest. Often they manage to do that not because they are so good, or the first or the only one, but because the others are so bad and Apple is more bold and pays much more attention to detail.Music players with hard drives existed before the iPod. E.g. this heap of garbage (I know, I owned one) was at least a year earlier than the iPod, and it wasn't even the first player with a hard drive:But what you already see from the picture is that Creative had no balls, no creativity, or didn't care. They used the established form factor of a portable CD player as a base for a portable music player. With a rubbish, crashing OS, that was annoying to use, horrible build quality and features advertised on the box but never implemented. Of course a company, in this case Apple, can build something better.

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 09:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: Silenus on August 29, 2014, 10:29:50 amThe best way to increase your chances of entering a career is to find an undergraduate way to enter itnow. Internships, research opportunities, work study programs, etc. Collegiate activities like robot competitions are also a great way to get practical experience, but nothing helps you get into an industry more than already being in the industry.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 10:18:57 pm
content: Quote from: Dago on August 29, 2014, 09:16:11 amEveryone needs to read this and repeat it until it becomes second nature.I can't count the number of times I hear of or from people who feel their idea is worth something. Ideas are worthless. Execution is all that matters. Any investor and any businessman would choose a great team with a mediocre idea over a great idea and a mediocre team every day of the week. One of the people I am working with now is a billionaire who earned his fortune in watches. He started in the late 80's and grew his business to a multi-billion dollar enterprise.He wasn't the guy who invented watches, nor did he really innovate in watches. He executed very well, though.It's no different in any technology field. Execution is what counts. Innovation happens in small increments, and successful innovations are those which are executed on well.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 10:28:05 pm
content: This is a rather good thread for people including myself to get their spirits up when a project seems like its going nowhere.Donald Trump tells this story I found it interesting:Quote

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 11:37:33 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on August 29, 2014, 09:09:17 pmInteresting theory. I hadn't really thought of that angle.Quote from: Bored@Work on August 29, 2014, 09:09:17 pmHeeeey! I forgot all about the Nomad. Good call. (It even comes equipped with EAX! LOL Because sometimes music just doesn't have enough reverb.)

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 10:52:21 am
content: QuoteProbably not. The market is so diverse that you can think of good old ideas and refine them for your application.However, the key is really not the technical merits of your ideas but how you market your ideas.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 06:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on September 01, 2014, 10:52:21 amI think both, knowing how to combine existing technologies, and make it work is an absolute necessity.also knowing how to technically adapt, make changes, is needed.For the "knowing how to market", I like the articles of James Altucher, especially the article about when he gave the advise to a Startup, to give away 95% of their shares to a big distributor.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 08:59:27 pm
content: Quote from: Silenus on August 29, 2014, 04:43:11 pmThe only company on your short list that has a chance of breaking out of this trap is Google, which has a policy of giving their people separate time and access to labs for their own ideas. You would need to follow this policy up with an additional "we will fund your idea as an internal unit-company" official incubator policy. I don't know how that works inside Google. Time will tell if Google can break the mold. One of the main points of resistance inside a large company are the management who will point out that the new idea threatens an existing revenue stream, they always seem to realize too late that is exactly what you need to do to stay on top in the market.An interesting example is Microsoft Research. Microsoft started buying all kinds of talent to staff the place in the 1990's when they had more money coming in than they knew what to do with. I laughed out loud when a professor I was talking to called it "the roach motel of computer science". All these smart guys going in, nothing coming out. It was funny because it was so true.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 09:40:38 pm
content: I find that the best thing to do is to get knee deep in a problem that needs a solution. Start brute forcing it. Maybe you'll finish it that way (i.e. the expected way). Maybe you'll find a better solution. When you think you have a better solution the best thing to do is talk it over with somebody else. Many times this results in the realization that your new way sucks (or is really an old way). But every now and then your new way survives, gets implemented, and then yours may be the new industry standard.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 09:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: dfmischler on September 01, 2014, 09:40:38 pmGood point. And we see bad designed products every day. But the major problem I see is how a "normal" individual (as in "having not enough money and time needed to accomplish the task") can be noticed in such a competitive market? How would John Doe solve design problems in the "X" product and be noticed/hired/whatever by a major manufacturer?

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 10:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: ablacon64 on September 01, 2014, 09:48:46 pmMost useful innovation occurs in small steps within ones area of expertise (i.e. you already have the job, and you came up with a better way to do it). It is much rarer to come up with something disruptive that is a bit out of your area.I admit that I was thinking about the time when I stumbled uponthis approach to hiding an IP network behind a single IP address, and asked for opinions on the firewalls mailing list in December of 1992. I was heavily involved in TCP/IP networking at the time, but this was not a problem my employer was interested in pursuing. You probably all have systems that use this idea now, whether you call it NAT, IP Masquerade, or just let whoever built your router worry about it. But as far as I know it was a new idea at that time. Putting it on the firewalls list got me several valuable opinions back, and also widely disseminated the idea. If I had intended to patent it then I guess that would have been a bad thing. As far as I know I was the only one with a working implementation before 1994.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 01:24:50 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on September 01, 2014, 08:59:27 pmMicrosoft is an interesting place. However staid, and badly managed, and uninnovative a company is, there are usually little groups doing interesting things, skunkworks style - probably out of boredom most of the time. Its really hard to stop this happening, even though management frequently tries really hard. However, Microsoft has been so effective at stifling its own innovation that the only novel thing ever to come out of their doors was Bob.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 09:20:16 pm
content: Quote from: dfmischler on September 01, 2014, 10:26:29 pmWow, that is a cool piece of history right there. I especially like this part:QuoteSo, when you get around to finding the perfect alternative to UDP timeouts and SPI, let us know, OK?

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 01:46:31 am
content: Quote from: SirNick on September 03, 2014, 09:20:16 pmI didn't come up with anything better than that for my implementation. In fact, you need timeouts on TCP connections, too (e.g. what if both endpoints of the connection reboot; the TCP connection will never see a FIN or RST so it will sit there forever if there is no timeout). I stopped working on this stuff a long time ago (2000? When I could buy a low-cost router with functional NAT and site-to-site VPN). I find it interesting that if you read that first description of NAT you will not find any of the terms we now use to describe this stuff because they did not yet exist.The on-topic part of this story is that I thought of these concepts and implemented them because nobody was doing it and I wanted the capabilities for myself. The best "innovator" in the world will be stuck if he can't find any problems that he personally has a stake in solving.