Two new patients inbound :) Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 01:49:17 pm
content: I have two more patients on their way to meThese patients are Scott Eagle Attack firefighting cameras that have undisclosed faults.The seller appears to have a large stock of working Eagle Attack cameras to sell and all appear to have come from a single Firefighting Department. This is typical of a Fire Department equipment refresh with the old cameras going to auction in bulk. The camera model in question dates back to 2012 so is 8 years old and now discontinued. Scott 3M have changed direction in their firefighting camera range and support for the older cameras has likely ended or become limited. Fire Departments then have little choice but to raise a tender process for replacement cameras from the current manufacturers of such. This can be a great opportunity for hobbyists as large numbers of used fire fighting cameras can appear on the secondary market at relatively affordable prices. MSA fire fighting cameras regularly appear on eBay at various prices ranging from under $100 to many hundreds of Dollars, depending on condition and the sellers profit margins.I have highlighted fire fighting cameras as a good source of decent thermal imaging cores previously. Such professional use cameras remain an excellent source of high quality thermal imaging technology that may be redeployed in a different embodiment or used as an affordable thermal imager ‘as supplied’ in the original fire fighting camera format. The quality of components used in fire fighting thermal cameras is normally very high as these units take a real beating during their operational lives and they need to be reliable. Whilst not described as ‘life saving’ or ‘personal protection of life’ devices (for legal reasons) that is, in fact, their real world role and they do aid fire fighters in their duties to assess a fire and search for casualties. They most certainly have saved many lives around the world over the years. Reliability is therefore a key requirement when designing such a camera. Some cameras do fail in service and some are better designed than others. That is not a surprise as cameras are made for a range of budgets and uses. Better a cheaper model that is less rugged than no camera at all ? Such just require greater care in their use.So back to the Eagle Attack camera..... what is it and why did I buy two faulty units ?The Eagle Attack is a lightweight, relatively compact personal firefighting thermal camera that provides the user with an easily gripped handle and a decent size of display for viewing the thermal scene. This is part of the new generation of personal fire fighting cameras that are intended to be issued to many individual fire fighters rather than shared amongst a team. The camera was designed to be affordable, effective and compact to enable it to hang off of the users protective clothing without impeding mobility. The Bullard Eclipse and Argus MiTic are similar in this respect. The ‘personal thermal camera’ specification can be slightly lower than the higher priced larger cameras but this is by no means always the case as the core may be identical across a range of cameras with just larger displays or more features offered on the larger cameras. The Argus MiTic 320 is a camera that I love and it performs very well indeedThe Eagle Attack uses a 160 x 120 pixel A-Si microbolometer to capture the thermal scene and it upscales the image to 640 x 480 pixels. Whilst 160 x 120 pixels may not sound very impressive, remember that a good 160 x 120 pixel core can often look better and outperform a lower quality, more noisy 320 x 240 pixel core. Firefighting cameras typically employ good quality optics married to a good quality core...... a recipe for nice imagingSo what thermal imaging core lives inside the Eagle Attack ?From what I can see of the Eagle Attack’s lens (behind a Germanium window) the core is a L3 Thermal Eye 3500AS or 3600AS, with me leaning towards the 3600AS due to its more compact PCB’s designed to fit into compact camera heads like that of the attack. The L3 TE 3x00AS cores are very capable A-Si based thermalimaging devices. This is no surprise when you realise that they were designed to be very versatile in order to attract military customers. These cores can be found in weapon sights, thermal reconnaissance monoculars and UAV’sSo why did I buy two faulty Eagle Attack cameras when I already own a few thermal cameras ?Four reasons really .....1. They were inexpensive (really cheap!) at the original asking price and were being offered at a further discount that I just could not resist.2. The Scott Eagle Attack uses a decent imaging core and once I realised what model of core was used I knew I had a good chance of repairing and reconfiguring that particular core. The cores Germanium lenses alone were worth the asking price !3. I get enjoyment from working on faulty thermal cameras and a kick out of returning them to operating condition.4. I do not already own a Scott Eagle Attack in my collectionI will update this thread once the two cameras arrive.The seller is also offering tested, working Eagle Attack cameras with two batteries but no charger for over $1200 but I consider that a Bullish asking price. These cameras cost around $7K new in 2012 so are not the most expensive by any means. They are now effectively obsolete and likely with very little support available from Scott.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 01:55:47 pm
content: Sample images grabbed from the internet. Maybe not as good as the camera produces due to image compression etc.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:14:02 pm
content: Pictures of the Eagle Attack imaging cores lens for comparison with those of the TE 3500AS and 3600AS.The lens of the Eagle attack camera is protected by a germanium window that is dual purpose. It is a lens protection window plus part of the cameras fluid ingress defences. Such a lens protector and fluid ingress defences are excellent as it means a camera that may look a little rough on the outside often contains a pristine condition coreFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:15:38 pm
content: The L3 Thermal Eye 3500AS and 3600AS product brochures.....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:16:45 pm
content: Deploying an L3 TE 3600AS core in a civilian UAVAn interesting document and nice buildFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:22:55 pm
content: The two patients that are inbound.......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:25:08 pm
content: Pictures from the other auction that the seller is running, offering tested working cameras ......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:43:10 pm
content: The sellers auction for working cameras.... over $1275 though !https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scott-Safety-Eagle-Attack-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-w-2-Batteries-No-Charger/324363527822?hash=item4b8592a68e:g:Zn4AAOSwpE5fpVjeHe may or may not have more faulty units. None are currently being offered though.I paid $170 for the pair of faulty units. Shipping to the UK was just $17.61The $-£ exchange rate was in my favour this week as wellFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 03:09:26 pm
content: The two new patients have arrived

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 03:32:07 pm
content: Initial checks are looking promisingBoth cameras boot, show the splash screen and go to the thermal imaging state. One fails to display a thermal image but the FFC shutter is operating. The other shows a thermal image of good quality and accuracy but there is variance in the current draw that is in since with minor display flickering on occasion.The camera that produces a thermal image likely has a power rail related issue for me to track down. The unit that fails to display a thermal image appears to be fully functional in all other respects. It is displaying a sub zero temperature measurement so there could be an issue with its ambient temperature sensing circuit or loss of data from the microbolometer.These are actually nice compact little units. I already like them....... but I still prefer the Argus 4, MiTic, Bullard Eclipse and ISG X380 designsThexAttack looks like what it is..... a no frills utility device, much like a ruggedised torch really. What lives inside the head unit though ? You will have to wait and seeFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 03:48:35 pm
content: For those playing along at home, here are the details of the images produced.First the working camera, then the non working unit.Current draws are similar but different enough to warrant investigationWorking Camera = 346mANon working camera = 320mAThe cup of coffee in the picture is not at optimal viewing distance and is only just warm because I got distracted from drinking it by the camera arrivalFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 04:20:36 pm
content: The camera that was not producing an image lives !The camera is now fully functional and producing a good thermal image.The marks on on the plastic screen and not the image.I used a hot coffee as the target for this testMore details laterNow onto the next patient..........Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 06:12:13 pm
content: Both cameras now up and working normallyI would love to say that they had demanding faults that required great in depth knowledge of thermal cameras to repair them. Sadly not the case though. Both were simple repairs.One disconnected microbolometer ribbon cable and one dry joint. Nothing exciting.I will upload the teardown pictures later.I like these little cameras. They are basically ‘screwdriver designs’. That is to say Scott bought-in a self contained L3 Thermal Eye 3600AS imaging core and fed its composite video output into an LCD display board that produces the image on the LCD for the user. The LCD display board looks to be multi function and some functions are not used on this camera so are not connected. There is a small power control PCB that also acts as a hub for various cables. The whole kaboodle is then fitted into a custom case for the application. Almost like building Meccano or LegoThis particular pair of cameras are not fitted with the optional DVR module.More later, with picturesFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 10:08:38 pm
content: I started a new thread to cover the teardown of the Eagle Attack here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/scott-eagle-attack-teardown-and-comment-from-fraser/new/#new]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/scott-eagle-attack-teardown-and-comment-from-fraser/new/#new] https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/scott-eagle-attack-teardown-and-comment-from-fraser/new/#newThe repair was a non event so I will precis it here.The camera that would not display a thermal image was suffering from a simple disconnected ribbon cable from the microbolometer. The locking bar had popped open releasing the cable and all that I had to do was re-seat the cable in the connector and push the locking bar back into place. The camera then happily produced a nice thermal image.The camera that was producing a thermal image but had intermittent flickering on the display had a dry joint on the input connector to the monitor PCB. Re-soldering that pin resolved the issue.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2020, 11:05:42 pm
content: The cameras case design is intended to be waterproof, including situations involving submersion. I am pleased to say that I found no evidence of water ingress in either camera and the internal parts look physically ‘as new’Another interesting point to note about these cameras...... neither smells of smoke and neither has soot in the nooks and crannies as would be expected of an active service camera. It is my belief that these cameras came from a training establishment where fake smoke is deployed for TIC training.Fraser

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 07:20:58 am
content: HI Fraser,Thanks for posting your adventures. I am sorry I am not very active here, but I am enjoying all of this.... and I think I am not the only one.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2020, 11:47:50 pm
content: I have extracted the cores, monitors, control boards and Germanium lens protectors from the Eagle Attack cameras as I think they are an excellent basis on which to build a custom camera. I will keep the Attack camera cases in case I ever decide to refurbish one and install the original electronics package. The two Germanium lens protectors cleaned up really well and are not as badly worn as I had thought

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 10:17:57 am
content: Fraser - looking at your photos it appears that the active 'head unit' is hinged to the handle, meaning that the angle can be adjusted for comfort. If so, then I think that's the single most sensible piece of ergonomic design I've seen on any camera!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 10:37:17 am
content: Ultrapurple,Sadly no. The handle is firmly fixed to the head in one position.The larger Scott EAGLE camera has a multi position handle for different situations. It is a strange looking beast.Fraser

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 10:52:10 am
content: Interesting teardown as always if somewhat boring faults, keep going.An aside, I've been trying to find out where UK fire service gear gets auctioned off, not for thermal cameras but certain other pieces of kit (radio gear), any ideas?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 11:09:46 am
content: CJay,Some kit does go to Government Auctions but I have wondered the same as we do not see large numbers of surplus thermal camera (or radios) appearing via the usual surplus dealers who buy at such auctions. I know that some thermal camera agents take the old cameras in as a ‘part exchange’ against new units. It us really just a way of incentivising sales, especially if poaching another brands customers ! The traded in thermal cameras are often crushed to remove them from circulationWhere radio gear is concerned, there is an added complication..... they are programmed with restricted use frequencies and in some cases encryption keys. Rather than risk a fully programmed transceiver getting into the public domain the decision may be made to crush them as they are scrap. Sadly the ‘sanitisation’ of such equipment can cost more in administration and labour than any residual value so it is easier and cheaper to destroy them. Some specialist equipment recyclers have a contract to take in technical equipment, remove all data from it and then resell the ‘cleaned’ equipment.If you search for “Government Auctions UK” using Google you will see the auction houses that deal with ex services equipment. Be warned though, in my experience the lots are large quantities and so prices can be high with competition from surplus companies keen to buy in quantity and flip for instant profit.Fraser

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2020, 12:35:11 pm
content: I've checked the sites I can see, maybe there's just nothing out there at the moment.I've had ex fire service radios before from sellers and there's an eBay seller selling ex ambulance service radios right now so they're definitely coming from somewhere (obviously he's not going to tell me where), my primary interest is in the radios but I'm also after some of the incident scene equipment (masts, lighting).I'll keep digging and if I find out then of course I'll share, there must be thermal cameras being sold off somewhere.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2020, 01:18:30 pm
content: Cameras with fire brigades are generally seen as having a life of 5 years or so, and most manufacturers will cover that on warranty / repair contracts. Even then the brigades may well either hold the best ones in reserve or pass them down from full time to their retained or volunteer stations.For example only recently have London FB scrapped their early Argus4 (bought in 2008 or so) having held them in reserve since around 2015 when they re-equipped with ISG cameras. Small numbers can get reused directly by local rescue charities, I know Morecambe Bay rescue had a couple of Argus3 from (I think) Lancashire FB and would have got the best ones.It is also worth noting that many UK brigades re-equipped en-masse around 2004 on a single contract awarded centrally, so that many became synchronised. Recently I suspect that a greater proportion of spending was going into the new digital radios, so less on thermal cameras even before things came to a halt.Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2020, 01:49:49 pm
content: I have often watched the RNLI rescue programs on TV and wondered why they did not have hand held thermal imaging cameras on-board their inshore Lifeboats. I thought Ex Fire service cameras might get donated to the RNLI or other Volunteer SAR organisations. Maybe the RNLI have not been offered such or they were found to be be ineffective when used to detect likely hypothermic persons in water. They could help spotting people on beaches and cliffs though.I like the idea of Fire Brigades passing unwanted surplus cameras to volunteer fire brigades and SAR organisations as that is a very good use and a noble cause to support. Sadly one particular UK agent for a particular brand of thermal imaging cameras told me that other brand “trade-in’s” are destroyed as they want their brand of product to be seem in use and not a competing brandI suspect the thermal camera manufacturers may well support some charitable causes with their own brand of camera however so I will not judge them too harshly, it just seems a terrible waste to destroy serviceable thermal cameras though. We must also remember that some Government organisations assist less affluent countries by donating expensive surplus equipment to them. I have seen very expensive Ex BBC Television studio broadcast cameras headed for an African country for instance. Maybe surplus thermal cameras get sent to fire fighting brigades overseas who could not afford such ?Fraser

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 09:43:42 pm
content: Hi Fraser,i saw these cameras on ebay before you bought them, was tempted to buy them but i couldnt find much information about the Scott Eagle Attack.After seeing your teardown, i would say you made a very good deal :-)I also bought 2 cameras from the same seller, a Infrasys X380 and a Scott Eagle Imager II. They should arrive soon, last tracking status was: customs cleared in amsterdam. Hope they are in a good condition internally aswell, water ingress would be a nightmare... I also bought a msa evolution 5600 from a different seller, and it seems like i have the same problem you had. Well... worse, tracking says: Undeliverable - Item restricted at Global Shipping Center. So it seems like i wont get that one :-/ according to ebay, i will get a full refund. Too bad, i would rather have the camera. I got it really cheap, and i really like the form factor of the omega / flir micron...I will post an update about the condition of the other 2 cameras once they arrive.

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 04:19:55 pm
content: Just a little update, my Cameras finally arrived.The Scott Eagle Imager II was rattling when i got it, the desiccant bag inside broke... so i had to take it apart to get all the silica beads out... but otherwise both Cameras seem to work.There is one thing i have noticed, the usb port on the ISG X380 doesnt work at all (it doesnt show up in device manager). I dont know if this is normal for the 3 Button model without DVR.Its also displaying the Temperature in Farenheit, if someone knows a way to set it to Celsius please let me know...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 05:32:13 pm
content: Good news that the cameras arrived safelyWhat core did you find in the Eagle Imager II please ? I was expecting Indigo/FLIRThe ISG X380 has a hidden menu to configure some basic functions. The hidden menu mode is easy to access but protected by a password that is not in the public domain and I cannot provide.Fraser

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 07:18:51 pm
content: Eagle 2 is a BAE MicroIR core.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 08:56:39 pm
content: I was expecting FLIR because the camera is marked up with FLIR referencesI attach pictures from this particular cameras auction. FLIR Systems is definitely involved in its build. The fact that there is a FLIR PCB in the battery bay suggests that FLIR is the OEM for this camera.Not sure what core is hiding in there though.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 09:04:55 pm
content: DIY battery details for a Eagle 2 compatible battery.http://hbaar.com/Homepage/?Bastelbude:Basteleien:Akku_f%C3%BCr_Scott_Eagle_Imager_III would do it differently but it is one approach to the challenge.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 09:31:21 pm
content: I have done some research and the Eagle Imager II is indeed a FLIR engineered product.https://www.safe-ir.com/camera-typesI also found a purchase request that has a nice Eagle II Q&A brochure at the endhttp://www.downers.us/public/docs/agendas/2001/april-24-2001/thermalimaging.pdfFraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 12:52:50 am
content: 2001 was 'top lies' andtime in the fire camera market wasn't iteven Scott joined in'... camera can see .007 degree ' - so 7mK !' features an automatic focus adjustment '' patented redundant cooling system that battles heat '' not old tube technology' - all the tube cameras (Argus 1) had ended in 1998Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 01:00:07 am
content: Bill,Yes I saw that 0.007C statement.Note that they say the new microbolometer sensor can ‘see’ 0.007C, not that it can do anything useful with it however ! The pixel can, of course, ‘see’ such a tiny temperature difference but it is lost in the noise of the pixel read-out processAs you say, pure marketing BS.

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 12:23:20 pm
content: Yes as already mentioned, its a BAE core inside.I made some pictures of the internals of the eagle imager, but im not at home at the moment so i post them later...Thanks alot for the brochure i couldnt find much about the camera.I already found the website about the custom battery box as my eagle imager II didnt come with a battery. But there was no stl file for download..So i made my own box in sketchup 3d. Its just a simple box, but i can post the stl file later aswell (just in case someone needs it)I also took the isg x380 apart and it has all 5 buttons populated so i guess all the required hardware is already there its really just a software upgrade (like on the flir E series)Fraser, can you atleast tell me how to get into the hidden menu?I guess its just pressing and holding a combination of buttons or something? even if i dont have the Password it would be interesting.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 01:04:39 pm
content: This is quite a discovery regarding the core in the Eagle 2 !So the claims made by Scott on their documentation for this camera and what the sales reps told potential customers is not really accurate/true. FLIR claimed to have engineered the Eagle 2 using one of their cores. The truth would appear to be that FLIR engineered a thermal camera design that uses a BAE core. I apologise to ‘Arseniodev’ for doubting his commentJust thinking about this for a minute, it does make sense. Before FLIR bought Indigo they did not have the OMEGA or Photon series of cores. I thought they may have bought in an OMEGA core for this project but they clearly opted for the BAE product. This camera is from an era prior to when FLIR had its own selection of compact imaging cores and, unlike now, they bought in the parts that they needed from core OEM’s. It is easy to forget that FLIR only became the manufacturer of a vast array of camera types by the purchase of other companies that had the skills and experience to build such. FLIR could be considered a sort of ‘Management Company’ that ‘Borged’ what it needed to become the company that we see today. A case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts as Aristotle would say.The BAE core will be nice quality and can be configured using a PC connected to its serial communications port. I would need to check whether it is RS232, RS422 or RS485. I think it is RS422.The X380 configuration menu is indeed accessed through a button sequence. From memory you have to hold the two outer buttons down whilst switching the camera on with the middle button. I would need to check though. The X380 uses a core and firmware completely designed in-house by ISG. Sadly there is little chance that they will share the configuration password with you but you can ask them and see what they say.The password challenge is a nightmare design that uses a vertical column of both Alphanumeric and symbol characters with selection using the two function buttons for each character followed by selecting a ‘return’ symbol. It is a bit of a nightmare process as button debouncing appears to be lacking ! You cannot easily brute force or guess the passwordI do not have the “X380” password in my archives. I think you are stuck with the Fahrenheit scale.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 01:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 02, 2020, 01:04:39 pmIf it is the 500 series, it is RS485 as attached brochure. that was the most common core for US camera builders at the time. Much more complicated elsewhere as any VOx core had a tighter approach to export controls than the BST / ASi.Quote from: Fraser on December 02, 2020, 01:04:39 pmThat is an Argus4 'reset to factory' - I think the ISG was 'all 3 for ages'.I do not know where you get if trying to talk to 'ISG' now. The Scott and then 3M takeover has shut all the technical side, just manufacturing up in Wigan ploughing on with the existing X380 model. You might get lucky if the right ex-employee is still on friendly terms.Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 01:40:01 pm
content: Thanks for the corrections Bill. My poor addled brain is not at its best at the moment !Fraser

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:06:41 am
content: Ok i guess i have to live with the Fahrenheit scale then, thanks anyway. Its not that bad, i mean i can roughly calculate the Temp in my head just (deg. Fahrenheit - 30) / 2.The Camera has to be already ON when holding all 3 Buttons for the Menu to show up, maybe one day i desolder the flash chip to dump the firmware...i just hate BGAs XDAs promised here are the Pictures and .stl/.skp file for the Batterybox

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:08:58 am
content: Scott eagle imager II:

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:12:05 am
content: 3 more

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:14:53 am
content: here is the Batterybox for it, to be honest i havent test printed the case lid i was just to impatient^^I just put a few pieces of cardboard behind it to push it against the battery contacts XDBut im sure it will fit fine.

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:16:14 am
content: ISG X380:

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:17:45 am
content: Sorry it took so long, but i wasnt happy with the pictures i made (made them just for me to remember where everything goes).So i took everything apart again to make some better Pictures...also an update on the Camera that didnt get through export customs (MSA Evolution 5600).I got a full refund from Ebay and an email were they apologize for what happened.They told me the Seller can also keep my Money, so no one really lost anything.I have read on a different Forum, that Ebay Auctions these Items off. But not sure if that is true...I still dont understand why it didnt get through, i bought several Thermal Cameras from the US this year without problems...even the ISG X380 and Eagle Imager were declared as thermal imagers on the package...i bet they have the name "MSA Evolution" on there Blacklist now, thanks Fraser XDThe only Thermal Camera cores i have with that Resolution are a few Flir Leptons which i use for my Projects,and i would like to have something with the same Resolution to compare it to.i think the Omega would also be the perfect Camera for a Quadcopter. I really like the Design,no exposed ribbon cables that could break in a crash and a nice protective metal can around the Electronics...Is there any other firefighting camera brand with the Omega/Micron core?Im definitely not going to try that again with an MSA branded Camera...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 07:33:46 pm
content: I have just found some pictures of the “FireFLIR 131”. You may recognise it from the previous pictures of the Scott Eagle IIFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 07:36:23 pm
content: FLIR FF131 brochure......https://file.yzimgs.com/32419/200751411456968339181.pdfFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 07:40:27 pm
content: FLIR FF131 user manual....http://fmwtx.com/pdf_files/FireFLIR%20Manual.pdfFraser

author: dennis1573
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 08:42:48 pm
content: The brochure link isnt working for me, but thanks for the manual. There is not much on the internet about the Scott eagle imager II.The FF131 seems to the same camera, just Flir-branded so the manual should also apply for my camera :-)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 09:03:21 pm
content: I tried entering the brochure link into Google and it found the fileI attach the Brochure PDFFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 09:06:26 pm
content: In case the user manual link dies, I attach the FF131 PDFFraser

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 03:08:23 am
content: Have we figured out how to control this core yet? I've got two of them sitting around that I'm building into better enclosures.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 02:16:25 pm
content: Which 'Micro-IR' core do you have ?The 200/205 is RS422. It had a 20 and an 80 way connectorImage PIC00010 belowThe 500 is RS485 and had a 30 way connector - as per the brochure in the thread above andimage PIC1regardsBill

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 12:15:33 am
content: Mine is the 200/205!Is there an easier way to feed it power and enable it too? I'm using the power board from the Scott imager and want somethin a bit cleaner

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 04:56:44 pm
content: You could just bypass the Scott board.For the 205:20 way connectorHarwin M80-8662022, 20 pin, 2 row thru hole, 0.1" x 0.05"Pins 1-3 are +ve, pins 4-6 are -ve battery supply.Pins 7-9 are 'external +ve' and 10-13 'external -veThere are a couple of 'switch' signals on there too, but I cannot find out what they did. Suspect they switched on or off allowing external power to stay live.The image below is a 205 installed on an Argus 3 chassis, showing power is only connected to pins 1/2 & 5/6. I doubt there was anything else on that tiny PCB, but if you get trouble I can go and look harder. I seem not to have the design file either.The spec says OK between 4V - 9V, and as usual at this era it takes somewhere around 8W until the peltier settles, then about 5W.Argus3 was 5 x NiMH cells.The 80 way is all signals, and annoyingly the analogue video only comes out on that one.I noted that if not terminated, you will not get a video signal.regardsBill

author: Wendy_Preston
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 09:18:47 am
content: Quote from: Bill W on December 17, 2020, 04:56:44 pmHi all, just to help a little bit with the Harwin male connector, the product page forM20-8662022has dims and specs. This one is not RoHS compliant, if you need a compliant version look atM80-8512042instead. Availability is also better on the RoHS compliant item too.Looks like this is mated to the female vertical PCB connector, which would beM80-8872001for the Non-RoHS version andM80-8502042for RoHS. BTW, RoHS mates fine with Non-RoHS, but again the availability is better for the RoHS item.There are also mating female connectors in cable connection styles, just go to the product pages for the male connector and scroll down to "Related Products", and click on Mating.Hope that helps somebody! Wendy

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 09:28:31 am
content: Quote from: Wendy_Preston on January 08, 2021, 09:18:47 amCompletely unrelated to the thread but I *love* that Harwin have taken this step and are being so helpful.Right, back to watching Fraser work his wizardry and look on in envy at the gadgets.

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2021, 06:51:13 pm
content: Oh it's great news that the bulky power board can be bypassed. There is another board though, it has a Xilinx CPLD(?), an Atmega avr and some other random stuff, without it connected the core WILL NOT start, trying to figure that one out, looks to also have fed the display in the scott IR cam housing originally.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2021, 04:42:21 pm
content: OK, I've taken it apart and looked harderAs I said there are power control lines on that 20 way Harwin M80 connection to the core, and while I do not seem to have any explanation of how to use them the adaptor PCB has joined pins 17 and 19.Your description sounds like the extra PCB is providing button control of power there.A guess but maybe a low current enable of some sort ?Otherwise a bit pointless having 3 in parallel for each power line. Also not obvious where they go, as the tracks are buried inside the multilayer PCBBill