Latest Win 7 updates fuck-up - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 01:49:37 pm
content: Just updated my Win 7 workstation with the latest august updates today.Don't know if I'm the only one: this was kind of a fuck-up. Made the OS freeze (it was not a "hard" freeze, mouse could still be moved around, but GUI was completely unresponsive, and even CTRL-ADD-DEL didn't do anything). First time I had seen that in years. After a few minutes waiting like this, the only option was to hard reset the machine (there was no sign of SSD activity nor sign of significant CPU use given the fans were running at the minimum). Fortunately, after the hard reset, Windows rebooted OK, but then rebooted by itself several times to complete the updates. It was kind of freaky because it started looking like an infinite loop, but it finally booted to an operating state.Am I the only one who encountered this issue?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 12:01:05 pm
content: Isn't Win 7 end of life coming up soon? Maybe Microsoft is nudging us into upgrading to Win 10, "the last operating system we will ever use".

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 03:15:26 pm
content: It's ending in a few months, and I still update it monthly. Never had a single problem with that before. But I know quite a few people that are still using Win 7 have decided to stop updating altogether for a while now. So I'm wondering whether I'm one of the few that still update.It's not like Win 10 updates don't fuck up on a regular basis as well anyway... talk about an incentive to upgrade. That said, they are probably assigning less and less ressources to the Win 7 support these days.Last time I remember some kind of OS freeze like this is when they were force-downloading Win 10 upgrade files behing your back though. At some point you could not shut down your Win 7 computer while it was downloading those files, which could take ages. A bit annoying.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 04:57:56 pm
content: Meanwhile over here my Win7 laptop was last updated almost 4 years ago and it's humming right along with no problems whatsoever. Is there even a discernible difference between these broken updates and the potential issues they are meant to prevent?I mean look at the situation objectively. We know that Microsoft has no QA anymore, and many of the updates for their flagship OS have been unmitigated disasters, they are desperate to bury the still very popular Win7. Best optimistic case the latest updates for Win7 are essentially untested, pessimistic case they are deliberately engineered to make the OS flaky.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 05:18:14 pm
content: I stopped updating Win7 5 months ago. No problems here...

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 05:19:12 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 15, 2019, 03:15:26 pmHello bro !The pivot point was the FTDI kill driver update. Guess what, I am still alive and could not be happier.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 05:25:05 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 14, 2019, 01:49:37 pmWahhh Wahhh Waaaaaahhhhhh FAIL: I warned you and you ignored me, read here:[Me WARNING EVERYONE] Post #77 :https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569797/#msg2569797[Mr Scram] Post #78 :https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569806/#msg2569806[You!!!!!] Post #79 :https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569809/#msg2569809

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 07:12:22 pm
content: Yes that's funny, they actually do recommend you check out a new PC:https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information?OCID=win7_app_omc_winQuoteSo this is because they want you to be on one of the latest machines that has BIOS-integrated authentication licensing agreement with Microsoft or it has the boot EUFI/BIOS locked down so much that you will have a hard time trying to install anything else on it. Or because they get a cut of every PC shipped through OEM licensing, or simply because they want users to experience the best possible speed and functionality out of their new Windows installation (since there is no guarantee they will support or continue to work well with old hardware).I have had increasingly difficult times trying to install Linux on some of the newer machines. The BIOS just does it's darn best not to let anything else boot and I'm sure some of you have experiences where the manufacturer has locked down the hardware so far down the rabbit hole with Microsoft that it is almost impossible to have it boot anything else. I am sure there are some negotiations on volume licensing agreements between Microsoft and these OEM's where they promise to make sure the computer can run nothing but Microsoft for a better deal.Yes yes I know it's all for security reasons and to protect us, right?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 11:05:18 pm
content: This is not really unusual. You can try unplugging any USB hub or similar, but it may not be recoverable. Make sure your data is backed up I guess.Quote from: BrianHG on August 15, 2019, 05:25:05 pmIts reasonable to ignore your conspiracy theories.Yeah for sure people should upgrade to 10 a long time ago, but XP was receiving updates until April of this year and none of them intentionally nuke the machine.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 11:13:06 pm
content: I don't really think Microsoft is intentionally trying to nuke Win7 machines, I think they just don't really care. I mean they don't properly test their Win10 updates, would you expect them to test the Win7 updates? Most of the testing Win10 gets is from customers, Win7 has no such insider program. Any updates it gets are going to be half assed, untested, and if it breaks your machine Microsoft is just going to tell you to get Win10. I would install sketchy undocumented software from China before I would install an update from Microsoft on my Win7 boxes.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 09:31:35 am
content: I stopped the automatic updates many years ago due to so many problems.One company I went in all had a loop, bluescreens, reset, system restore (bootup) fix and back to bluescreen.That one turned out to be Nvidia discontinuing support for a graphics controller in some later driver that was pushed though that WHQL but didn't remove the information. It was optional but it got install again at a later date on all four.In another company there was an update reboot loop and later on an Office update through the automatic updates it broke Office 2010 (the whole package) on two and some explorer stuff.That was it, I disable updates and installed them manually and not many issues after that.I didn't have any problems for about 7 years so far.If I need some hotfix I go to that catalogue.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 02:34:55 pm
content: I've never been on automatic updates ever since I've been using Windows. That's one of the first things I would disable when installing Windows. Have always at least looked at each update description before installing it.Problem now is that MS decided to bundle most updates as rollup (so you don't have individual access to them) on Win 7 for I don't remember how long - probably over a year or two now... (they also now release a "preview" update bundle early - which is only marked as optional - haven't ever installed those preview updates, but they certainly look like MS is considering their users as beta testers, which is pretty much what they do with Win 10 as well IMO.)Anyway, I haven't had any problem with the way I was updating so far. But I'll be definitely more and more cautious as we get near the end of support.I don't think MS would benefit from any large-scale problem with Windows 7. Win 7 still has a significant market share, and that would just ruin their reputation. I think they just put less and less ressources and effort on supporting it.I launch full partition backups on a regular basis anyway, so that if anything fucks up really bad, my machines would be back to normal in a relatively short time.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 05:12:26 pm
content: Can their reputation be ruined further than it already has?I used to trust the updates completely, never had an issue with them, then things happened and now I don't trust them at all, they behaved just like malware pushers.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 05:38:29 pm
content: Has any one tried this?http://www.wsusoffline.net/With support ending for Windows 7 before long, I was thinking it might be useful. I sort of started to last year, but didn't get far before getting side-tracked. Maybe it's time to give it a better look.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 02:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 15, 2019, 11:13:06 pmIf they ever did MS stopped caring long time ago. Some weeks ago I posted about how WIN 10 was lying to users saying Registry backups were being made when in reality they weren't. Now I can't find the post.Quote

author: wavetrex
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2019, 01:50:25 pm
content: Do you guys know about this ?http://forum.oszone.net/thread-257198.htmlIt's an offline package of updates for Windows 7 based on the Enterprise Support, which needs to last much longer, even if consumer support has been discontinued.I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2019, 08:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: wavetrex on September 07, 2019, 01:50:25 pmIts still free.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2019, 09:46:03 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 09, 2019, 08:56:23 pmIt's hard to flog a turkey at any price

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 12:34:53 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 09, 2019, 08:56:23 pmIt has never been free. All along you have had to trade a valid license for a superior OS!I'd love to be able to see what happened in an alternate universe where the upgrade offer was in place but without the tricks, coercion, and malware infection style pushing of the update. Given how much effort it required to avoid it, the fact that Win10 had not even reached 50% after a year of that is very telling. It only continues to rise because computers break down and/or become obsolete and consumers buying new ones have little choice.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 01:12:20 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2019, 12:34:53 amIt costs $0, literally the definition of freeAndroid is not so different:https://www.gsmarena.com/counterclockwise_newer_android_os_versions_no_longer_reach_majority-news-29554.phpwith a much shorter hardware lifecycle.Lets try to stick to useful information here please.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 01:19:50 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2019, 12:34:53 amIt's free upgrade and you don't lose previous licence. You can install previous version if you don't like win 10 for some reason.Also there is a way how to get it completely without any previous investment (without valid win 7/8 licence) if your conscience allows it. Without running any cracks on win 10, and digital license/activation permanently bound to hardware.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 02:28:27 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 10, 2019, 01:12:20 amSo try to go get a copy of Win10 for $0 without trading in a bought and paid for Win7/8 license. You can't do it, you have to trade something that you paid for (usually rolled into the cost of the hardware) that has value so it is not free.The reason that you don't have to pay anything above and beyond the value of your existing OS license is because if you did then far fewer people would have done so. The "upgrade" to Win10 is "free" because there's something in it for them, it is not just an advertising platform but a marketing platform and trojan horse to harvest your personal data and push paid products and services. There is a very big incentive for MS to bury Win7 and get everyone on their new marketing platform, to the point that they started spreading FUD about their own former OS's long before the end of support.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 02:30:16 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 10, 2019, 01:19:50 amYou absolutely do lose the previous license, yes you have a window to roll back but after that you are SOL. Sure there are hacks and tricks to get it for free just like any other software, but if you wish to stay legal you are trading in a valid license for a new license, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Win10 is not and has never been free.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 02:36:04 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2019, 02:30:16 amWho prohibits doing fresh win 7 install?And how lack of possibility to do automated rollback from win 10 suddenly invalidates win 7 licence?BTW. All this stupid argument started from you taking word out of context, nobody said there was no previous investment needed:Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2019, 12:34:53 am

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 02:59:47 pm
content: Just a quick question - didn't really bother to look that up in depth myself, since I don't care about Win 10 for the time being.I've heard many people say that the Win 7 to 10 upgrade was still free, whereas MS always officially stated that the free upgrade would only be for the first year. I've looked a little on MS website, and I can't find any info on the upgrade being still free. Can anyone point me to an OFFICIAL info about that?And in case there's indeed NO official info from MS, but upgrades are still free, can anyone explain why?MS has f*cking dsigned a whole web page about end of support for Win 7, and why you should go for Win 10, and I've seen nowhere in it that the upgrade was free. Seriously. Instead, they just recommend you to buy a new computer!So, what's up with that?Sure, the obvious would be saying that MS just doesn't talk about free upgrades and tells people to buy a new computer, because this way they'll get money for the OEM version you'll get with the new computer. But really guys. Has MS become so desperate and so oblivious to their customers that they will just lie to them, if just by omission here?And again, if I missed any clear and official info from MS about this, and you can point us to it, don't hesitate to do so. Then I'll apologize here to MS for being so bitchy.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 03:03:40 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2019, 02:30:16 amI don't think you lose the license. You can still install the previous OS and activate it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 04:21:52 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 10, 2019, 02:59:47 pmIs installing win 10 over activated win 7/8 resulting in automatic activation of win 10 official enough? Also if you make fresh install and enter win 7/8 key when installing win 10 (or during activation if you didn't enter it during install) you get the same result.EDIT: You also can upgrade win 10 Home to Pro by entering win 7/8 pro or ultimate key.QuoteBecause MS wants to get rid of previous OS but also wants to sell win 10.

author: FreddieChopin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 07:35:21 pm
content: I think that Windows 7 was not a bad OS but it was bloated beyond reason. I use Windows 10 now but in my University all computers are still Windows XP because it runs better on older hardware like Intel E8400 CPU. Also, I have a laptop with XP customized by nLite software. It reinstalls in about 30 minutes automatically and I dont use antivirus with it because all unsafe stuff (services, autorun) is disabled with nLite.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 08:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 14, 2019, 01:49:37 pmAfter reading this thread I enabled Windows7 updates and got nearly the same effect. Stuck at checking for updates with no CPU, disk or network activity and running like cold treacle. After 2 reboots it now says Last updated: never, so I won't be trying again.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2019, 08:43:22 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 10, 2019, 02:59:47 pmYou're stretching things here. They don't want to have it written down because then it becomes a legal liability they have to commit to. A normal company might have a hard cutoff where the free upgrade/license is no longer available and then you have to pay for said license. You are implying that keeping it free, and being quiet about it is somehow worse than that.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 03:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 10, 2019, 08:43:22 pmIndeed. I call that a deceptive practice.The only reason they didn't stop after one year as they said they would, is that they failed to reach the market share they had targetted for Win 10.The only reason they keep it free while not committing to any clear end date, is again that they are still failing to reach the market share they have targetted.This is not a sign of being nice, it's just a sign of failed strategy.Any company that is not being upfront about something like this can't be trusted IMO.So you're saying they want no legal commitment? But how is that not a problem for customers? As a customer, I want a commitment EITHER WAY. Free or not free. And I'll do whatever I choose to depending on that info.As long as it's not official, taking the risk of upgrading, if it turns out to have to be paid for, is not something I would do. After all, I know NOTHING about that except for a few users' experience. Since MS is not commited, they could change ANYTHING about this at ANY point in time. I just find this unexcusable. This may be acceptable for people used to using cracked versions of Windows (they'll take the risk of whatever happens if it can be free), not for serious users.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 09:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 11, 2019, 03:27:21 pmNever said it was a nice gesture, just standard business practice. They have their reason for it, maybe as you say to reach a certain % market share.Its not a problem for big business customers, because they are paying MS for licenses or buying machines with OEM licenses. They aren't going to waste time going around upgrading machines. Not to mention they've probably replaced the old W7 hardware at this point (as you mentioned).I really don't see how its a problem for an average consumer either, no one I know has cared.Saying "they could do anything" is again a stretch, they aren't going to go out and retract everyones valid upgrade license. Hell you can use the OS without a license as it is (see Linus, he doesn't activate many of his W10 machines).I really struggle to see your viewpoint.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2019, 11:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: FreddieChopin on September 10, 2019, 07:35:21 pmI have a very old PIII laptop that I use to run my Halloween display and use a few ancient hardware devices that runs XP still. I moved up to Win7 about 5 years ago when 3GB of RAM and 32 bit only was no longer viable for what I wanted to do. There was a 64 bit version of XP but it was never widely distributed or well supported, I used it for a while on my test machines when I worked at MS but it was soon replaced with Vista. That got off to a rocky start but once hardware caught up Vista was really not a bad OS, it gets an unfairly bad rap due to making a lousy first impression.With any reasonably modern hardware the bloat of Win7 is a non-issue and while I don't really like replacing things that still work, upgrading my desktop to a core i7 from whatever P4 I had previously chopped the power consumption in half. That's actually what drove my decision to upgrade nearly as much as the vastly increased performance. Particularly if it's a machine that will be on 24/7 upgrading older hardware can pay for itself in energy savings.Now it's possible that Win10 will eventually turn into a good OS but so far it has done too little to reverse my horrible first impression. Additionally the "as a service" nature virtually guarantees a constant state of flux, MS will do what they please with it, whenever they please and I cannot rely on it to stay in any particular state. This is unacceptable to me, I demand full control, my computer answers to me, not the other way around. Likewise I don't want my kitchen or office to be a service, with the organization, furniture and decor automatically changing and my stuff getting moved around and various possessions being arbitrarily thrown out, being deemed incompatible with the latest arrangement. Working in tech, my computer is in a sense a virtual home that I spend much more time in than in my kitchen or office.

author: boB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2019, 12:19:44 am
content: So, what do people use for disk cloning of their windoze 7 laptops ?Is anyone doing this ? Of course, if that particular computer should become defective, there would have to be some kind of way of re-activating windows 7 and MS is not going to be doing that in a couple months.I used to use Acronis True Image years ago but recently tried to clone on the same win7 laptop to an external drive and now, the original drive doesn't have a boot partition and neither does the external clone.Do these have to both be external ?Any other ideas ?I heard in June I think to turn off updates and I think I wish I had done that sooner than now.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2019, 12:32:04 am
content: Quote from: boB on September 16, 2019, 12:19:44 amEven XP activation still works. And sometimes security patches still come out to fix extremely dangerous vulnerabilities discovered. End of support does not mean complete abandoning and shutting down activation servers.https://www.howtogeek.com/414804/still-on-windows-xp-update-manually-or-get-wormed/

author: LeonR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2019, 05:08:22 pm
content: For those that need a fresh installation of 7 (compatibility purposes, etc) I suggest Simplix update pack. It gets updated at least once in a month.https://blog.simplix.info/update7/It is a custom-made package with mostly just the security updates. A full list of what's included is present on the site.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2019, 06:29:11 pm
content: Quote from: LeonR on September 29, 2019, 05:08:22 pmThat's interesting. They just select the "useful" and harmless updates I guess. Question is, I don't know how much I could trust this?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2019, 08:02:34 pm
content: That would be the fundamental concern of any win7 user for next X years

author: LeonR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 05:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 29, 2019, 06:29:11 pmMajorGeeks have it mirrored:https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/simplix_updatepack.htmlAside from the standard downloads-it-then-scan-before-executing, Google haven't shown anything that makes it suspicious.You can also tryWSUS Offline. Both work just fine.As a tip: I suggest having a clean installation as barebones as possible (no drivers), fully updated. Then runsysprepwith the generalize option checked and image the disk (don't let it reboot into the sysprepped OS, use a bootable imaging solution like Acronis, Paragon, Easeus, etc). That way you get an "universal" image that can be deployed to almost any computer without a hitch in less than 30 minutes.