So  @NBN_Australia  are increasing wholesale prices to the ISP's? Why? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: matthurd
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 03:14:56 am
content: From Dave's tweet:https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1168697404582854656Going past Dave's funny rhetorical satire, I think it is worth remembering, as we all kind of know, the NBN has to preserve PNFC status as otherwise the $50B debt load suddenly does onto the gov't balance sheet and you get a large one time charge to the deficit. To retain PNFC status is a bit complex but it is largely three things: IRR at around the bond rate, it is a marketplace (non-uniform pricing with an element of competition), and, substantial subsidies are not required for ongoing operations. In somewhat redacted detailhttps://www.finance.gov.au/sites/default/files/foi_11-52_document_1.pdfSo, the NBN is prevented from direct pricing as they can't set one retail price and they must have a cashflow positive model that generates an internal rate of return high enough to keep the PNFC status. Remember this is meant to be at arm's length as the ABS determines the PNFC status, no doubt with a little helpful guidance from the gov't, so pricing changes have to be designed with the IRR in mind.I'm expecting an enormous write-down eventually and a big hit to the federal budget. Primarily as RF can do 1Gbps today (kind of but early dazehttps://www.tomsguide.com/us/galaxy-s10-5g-speed-tested,news-30101.html) and eventually this will undercut the NBN IRR with a lower marginal cost structure. Technology curves always win. Providers in Oz are already starting to offer pretty reasonable RF pricing plans for home internet to compete with the terrestrial quasi-monopoly the NBN soon might not have. Governments will seek to push out this budget hit for as long as they can but it seems inevitable.I have a Telstra fibre running by one side of the house ( a submarine cable that runs up the hill to a group of cell phone towers) and a 144-core NBN fibre with a three-door pit in the front yard, yet I only get 25Mbps internet as my FTTN is 1.2km away and I'm not prepared to pay the thousands of dollars for a "technology switch" to fibre for which the house is eligible. Crazy planning. To make matters worse the house is slightly in/out of the Fresnel zone from the cell phone towers on the hill and reception is spotty. Perhaps no RF for me :-(. In the countryside in the Huon Valley and surrounded by fancy comms (an NBN satellite station down the road a bit as well) and yet...Still - first world problems - 25Mbps feels like a win in a regional area.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 03:47:38 am
content: Well at least you have the FTTN, I'm not far away from you in Margate and still on ADSL. For some reason I have to pay more to have this privilege.So I have little sympathy about the price increase. Sorry.I have been repeatedly told a connection date by NBNCo and then they keep delaying it.How many times have they moved the date, IDK. Last three were to June, August and now November 2019.Even though the "Node" has been installed and connected down the street since early this year, I'm not really expecting to get NBN in November.If they actually ever decide to do it, there is little work to do (reterminating maybe 20 pairs ) it could probably happen in one day.

author: matthurd
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 03:58:09 am
content: Hello Mr Margate! Practically neighbours :-) Family friends in Margate had their NBN turned on late last year (newish suburb-like bit at the southern end). Though they are elderly (>80) and had their credit cards scammed by fake NBN people who did the support scam thing. HTML error - remote terminal access - type your CC details into notepad. NBN joy at every turn :-(I hope it goes better for you. I did have 100Mbps fibre in the city in a little office for a year. It was quite wonderful. It's good when it works.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 05:29:28 am
content: FTTC installed and live, but the existing copper line is only 400m long to the exchange. Sticking with the cheaper ADSL2 until they pry it from my hands. The modem is doing well for its 17 years of service and only uses 5W unlike the greedy NBN getting consumers to power their FTTC hardware.Should be interesting to see if NBN prices go up once there are no more copper lines to compete with.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 07:10:35 am
content: I suspect a significant part of the problem is the on-going maintenance and repairs needed to old, corroding copper infrastructure. For years I've said that trying to re-purpose poor quality and faulty copper lines at these kinds of speeds will end in disaster, rather than just biting the bullet and forking out the initial expense for fibre to the home or to the curb.Of course I'm not suggesting that NBN Co. roll out fibre to every single home in Australia, it's not feasible as a small percentage of people live in hard to reach or isolated areas, but for the users who live within a 50 kilometer radius of a city centre, there should be no reason why fibre can't reach >95% of those residents.It took me over 6 months of endless complaints of drop outs and unreliable service for NBN Co. to finally get off their ass and fix the issue and this is coming from a network engineer. I told the Tier 1 support guys exactly what the issue was and where it was, yet it was still an ordeal to have it sorted. As a customer, I didn't directly absorb the cost for each and every on-site visit, but as taxpayers, we all did. This isn't an unusual situation either, I wonder how many 10's or 100's of thousands of times this has already happened and will continue to happen as the copper lines deteriorate even further.I would be OK with paying a few thousand dollars to have fibre to my home with the government subsidising the rest, provided I could order a 1 Gbps service.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 09:39:12 am
content: The temptation to tease the lot of you with my FttP speed tests is immense.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 10:15:39 am
content: Yeah, just to upset people: There are countries with internet like this:1000 Mbit/s up 300 Mbit/s down max300 Mbit/s up /75 Mbit/s down guaranteed15 AUD/month, sign for a yearhttp://digi.hu/diginet-1000-akcio

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 10:19:27 am
content: I get 940/880 (with actual being effectively 1000/1000) FttP no data cap, ONT provided, all network hardware my own, for about 80 USD/mo. Phone is Google Voice (free), and TV is YouTube TV @ 50USD/mo.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2019, 10:40:02 am
content: I'm on the upper end of things, and got lucky with an area trial, can peak as high as 224, but still $110 per month (This speed goes back to 100 in ~ 4 Months time)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 12:21:40 am
content: The thing is, we get those sorts of speeds on our 4G/LTE/5G networks today, which is why people are turning to wireless as a real viable alternative. The downside is that it is a bit more expensive, there aren't any unshaped unlimited download plans (yet) and if your carrier uses IPv4, you're still behind carrier-grade NAT. For most used this isn't an issue but I require a static IP and no CGNAT.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 12:38:58 am
content: Interestingly it turns out that a huge chunk of the costs relate to the Liberal party's decision to roll out fibre to the node over fibre to the premises.It's the cost of power, each fibre to the node box on the street consumes, $89M nationwide in 2104 dollars:"The nodes are powered by a device mounted on the closest power pole, with an underground cable is run from that device to the node. Hooking up a node to the electricity grid costs $6250. According to NBN Co, annual electricity costs run at around $1404 plus an $85 service charge, for a total of $1489 per cabinet per year."https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/549704/nbn_fttn_power_bill_89m_year_/So, in theory, if power prices go up, this puts pressure on NBN pricing.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 12:56:49 am
content: Quote from: Ampera on September 03, 2019, 09:39:12 amSee below, you can get fast internet in Australia but it costs.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 09:07:21 pm
content: That looks like it would cost you enough body parts to satisfy the transplant requirements of the entire world every month.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 12:16:19 am
content: Quote from: Ampera on September 04, 2019, 09:07:21 pmSurprisingly affordable, hundreds of dollars per month.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 12:33:20 am
content: Quote from: Someone on September 05, 2019, 12:16:19 amThe problem isn't affordability of the plans/data, it's the fact that infrastructure to 99% of homes won't support those kinds of speeds. To have copper replaced with fibre would cost an individual in many cases well over $10k. To even apply and receive a formal quote for what NBN call "technology choice" costs $330 which is non-refundable. According toNBN's website:"The build costs for a change in access technology could range from a few thousand dollars, to tens of thousands of dollars per premises – and on the rare occasion, far higher than that."

author: lilstevie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2019, 07:02:54 am
content: Quote from: Someone on September 05, 2019, 12:16:19 amAs long as you luck out with location. For me its around the 250 mark for 500/200.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2019, 12:33:31 pm
content: My NBN service in Regional Western Australia, has been up & running for about a year now!In July this year, my monthly charge went up by $10. (With 'Dodo' Australia). Checking my accountonline, it seems they are adding a 'new' Item/Charge called... "Australian Call Pack Advance Fee".They are doing this to everyone, and without notice. I phoned them, and said "what's this shit!".Told them I didn't want it or order it, and to get rid of it now! So they did ! (just a con).They haven't put prices up though, due to provider cost increases though. Yet.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2019, 09:09:32 pm
content: I have speed envy118 Mbps down and 11 Mbps down on a 100/10 plan for $66 a month.