"Bait and Switch" Shipping Methods - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 10:07:54 am
content: How pissed should I be at a vendor ? I've had it happen before, and I'm sick of it.Long story short:- I need a part. And I needed before Friday. It's Sunday night. My options are few for this thing.- I find a vendor online, and they are located in the middle of the US, and brag on their web site that UPS Ground is about 3 days to anywhere- "Great!" I think, and the fact that my order has free shipping, all the better.- Order the part, and select "UPS Ground" (exactly those words on their web site check out page) as the free shipping option. All is right with the world, I'll have it in my hands by Friday no problem.- They don't ship it Monday, but rather the next day. Ok, no problem. I check my email, and get a tracking number....and......- to my dismay....they shipped it UPS "Sure Post", not UPS Ground. It won't be here for a week and a half.I'm guessing they saved $2 or something. No where did it say "UPS Ground is actually 'Sure Post'" on their site. I contacted them and they actually tried to convince me that "Sure Post" is a better shipping method, and that I should be "happy".(for those of you outside of the US, "UPS Sure Post" is a service where UPS sends your package partially through their system, and then the "last mile" of it is delivered by the USPS. Great in theory, but the hand off can take a few days. End result is that it's the slowest method possible.)I've had this happen to me at last once before, and I think it's really shady to say the least. Anyone else deal with this? They've asked if I want a refund, and I don't care about the money as much as their shady business practice, and wanting my part.Or and I being an ass, and that "you should have ordered it weeks in advance if it was that important" - to that I would say, it's not, but it's more about the principal of it, ya know?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 10:28:18 am
content: When you were ordering the parts and selected UPS Ground as the shipping method, did the website show an estimated delivery date? That would be a definitive proof they goofed up on your shipping. Regardless, they shouldn't have changed the shipping method without previous notification.Regarding UPS ground, I personally use this method only when either the seller is geographically very close or I am not in a hurry to receive the package. Otherwise I find risky to rely on a system where everything can happen, from multiple handoffs between sorting facilities to traffic accidents and inclement weather.Not entirely related to your case but nowadays I pay strict attention to the delivery estimate date as I have been bit before. The seller promises very fast shipping but is not entirely clear on how long they will take to actually prepare the package and submit it to the freight forward company - the infamous "processing time".

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 10:37:11 am
content: Name and shame.I have a similar thing happening in NZ but with FedEx.Rates are better than DHL from Shenzhen and at least FedEx won't charge me extra to deliver to my "remote" (read: not urban) address. DHL do.And then they hand my stuff to NZ Post for final delivery.So I end up watching the tracking, pay the import fees and then FedEx hands the delivery to NZ Post.2 more days to get parcels across Auckland from 25 km away.I can't/won't complain of the service our local NZ Post contractor gives, they certainly do their bit the best they can.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 10:40:14 am
content: Some of my current eBay listings are showing as 'available to ship 2-3 days before' today's date!

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 10:46:23 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 01, 2016, 10:28:18 amIt showed estimated time on their web site, yes. And if it had been the fault of UPS Ground that it didn't arrive, I would be fine with that. Stuff happens, I get that. My beef is more that they elected to send it a slower method (to save money) without any warning to save a few bucks on their end.Quote from: tautech on September 01, 2016, 10:37:11 amI will, once I've worked it out. It's a "maker" company. And no, not one of the major ones at all, lets say a hardly know third teir company. Some makers will know it. But not most of you.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 02:07:41 pm
content: I've seen this a lot on ebay. "SurePost" is not the same as UPS ground. Anytime someone does this to me I leave negative feedback and explain exactly why in a message.These shipping methods which use USPS for the final delivery can add many days to delivery times, but it varies. I'm convinced UPS delays packages intentionally when this service is used. FedEx is not so bad, and DHL can be nearly as fast as a direct shipment.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 02:14:48 pm
content: I just stop using vendors that don't work well for me. I've all but stopped using Amazon. I won't buy from them except for items where there is free shipping (now $50+) but over the law few years they started to intentionally delay free shipping orders 2-4 days before actually posting them at all. So when I recently bought a couple of 64GB SD cards I got it from an eBay vendor who posted it immediately rather than from Amazon, and it was both cheaper and faster. Amazon is no longer a good option for me for most items, they seem to have stopped caring about their mail order business since they started making money on their cloud platform.

author: klunkerbus
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 02:25:14 pm
content: Not all of these fall under bait and switch, but still...The "your item has been shipped" notifications when all it really means is maybe a label has been printed.Stuff that actually gets sent by USPS Mail Innovations, which appears to be "we'll set this in a box and see if we get more to send to that city before we turn it over to another carrier for long haul transport, so tack on a few more days for delivery"Web sites that suggest USPS is a shipping option (usually the cheapest for very small orders and Saturday delivery), but then not offering it as a selection during checkout.Promising to ship out orders received by a certain time of the day only to find they don't really mean it

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 02:27:12 pm
content: I buy from DigiKey and always select Priority Mail. It seems like I normally order on the weekend and my parts are usually shipped on Monday and in hand by Wednesday. It turns out that Priority Mail is one of the cheaper forms of transport.I don't care for the Sure Post thing because the item is usually dropped at a sorting facility and it takes a day or two to get delivered.I prefer to do business with companies that offer Priority Mail.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 02:56:01 pm
content: Quote from: JoeN on September 01, 2016, 02:14:48 pmAmazon just uses this tactic to punish non-Prime users. They also have deals where Prime users get a substantially better deal. I'm surprised the UK Trading Standards haven't found that against the rules.Onto eBay, it's very much hit or miss who ships fast from my experience (UK-based sellers).

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 04:10:26 pm
content: Many ebay sales simply state "Standard Shipping" and I'm fine with anything they use if that is what they call it, but what I've run into is clearly "bait and switch". The seller states the shipping service will be either "UPS Ground" or "USPS First Class Package" and then actually uses either SmartPost or Mail Innovations, which are not the same thing at all.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 04:12:56 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 01, 2016, 02:56:01 pmThey are punishing themselves. The consequence is that they have almost entirely lost the business of someone who has purchased from them since at least 1999 (probably more like 1997) and spent tens of thousands of dollars, including a multi-thousand dollar DSLR and other equipment in addition to lesser valued items like books, DVDs, chemicals, home office items, etc.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 04:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 01, 2016, 02:56:01 pmPrime is just a way to pay in advance for expedited shipping. Heck, they even deliver on Sunday! I pay for Prime and I also have a Prime membership for Kindle. The cost is minor compared to the convenience.I order from Amazon 3 or 4 times a week and seldom does a week go by where I haven't ordered something. Example: I just ran out of bandages. I could go to the drug store only to find they don't have them or I can just order from Amazon and save the trip. I buy virtually everything except groceries from Amazon.I always check the item for Prime eligibility before I buy. If it isn't eligible, it's coming from an outside vendor and I may never get it.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2016, 05:05:10 pm
content: I have a few things come via these various deals where the USPS does the 'last mile' of the delivery, and it doesn't seem to take much if any longer, from UPS or DHL. It's funny though to watch things go from New Jersey THROUGH Pennsylvania to Maryland to the USPS and then back up to Pennsylvania to my local post office. If the origin point is within 1 day of plain ground shipping of the post office, it gets from the supplier to the post office in the same 1 day, and then usually 1 more day to get from that USPS facility to my local one where it goes out.Amazon must be keeping the USPS afloat, they must be paying a fortune to get Sunday delivery at a time when the postal service wants to cut even Saturday delivery. Or the USPS makes some very bad deals from a financial standpoint. When I sell things on eBay I always ship them USPS Priority, because the cost is known up front. And in many cases it's no more expensive than super slow UPS or FedEx ground - so I tend to look at what a seller puts in their shipping info before bidding on things.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 03:06:55 am
content: This all reminds me of the 1990s when I worked at a TV Studio here in Perth WA.If we needed parts for equipment made in Europe,we were faced with unknown,butalwayslong,delivery times.It almost seemed as if they waited until they could fill a Seatainer before sending anything.Delays of 3 months for quite small parts were common.Contrast this with Sony, where it it was usually "next Airfreight from Sydney".Occasionally they had to source bits from Singapore,which may have added a day,or very rarely,from Japan (maybe a week).The European Manufacturers were surprised that we didn't buy their equipment!

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 05:10:15 am
content: The opposite, for me anyway, is McMaster. If I place an order with them before 5:30 pm, it gets shipped out same-day, and for some unknown reason, they bump the shipping up to Fedex priority. I get my parts *next morning*Amazingly, they still charge me for ground shipping. Glitch in the matrix? I always order fasteners, drill bits, taps, metal/plastic stock and other items from them.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 05:22:15 am
content: Note that for some items, such as batteries and pressurized or flammable chemicals, Digi-Key (and likely other vendors) will change the shipping method from one carrier to another, and from one delivery time to another, to deal with the shipping rules.If the order contained one item that forced this change, it seems that they ship the entire order together instead of shipping the "safe" items the fast way and send the "hazardous" one using the approved method.The shipping change notice does not always seems to make its way back to the customer.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 01:41:36 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on September 02, 2016, 05:10:15 amIt's an automatic upgrade from FedEx as McMaster is a preferred customer (i.e. LOTS of volume & they pay their account on time). UPS does the same thing.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 09:04:58 pm
content: Everyone always says that UPS and FedEx hold packages even if they arrive early, but that has not been my experience. Every time I think that (when I see my package had arrived at the next to last stop a day or two early via tracking info), I end up getting it next day - for example, the next to last hub for either is I know approximately 1 hour away from my local distribution point, and if my package gets there by 6pm, I will get it the next day, even if the expected delivery date was not until 2 days away.The ONLY time recently that I've had something held, or appeared to be held, was with USPS. One wonders if the tracking data is accurate, but my package was at the post office a half hour drive from my local post office at 7am on one day. The next day it STILL had not arrived at my local post office. The second day, it was tracked through my local post office and then out for delivery.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 09:15:35 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 02, 2016, 04:12:33 amCapitalism working great here. Mine almost always come days before the scheduled delivery date with both Fedex, and definitely with UPS, which is really fast.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 09:47:14 pm
content: Quote from: george graves on September 01, 2016, 10:46:23 amThat's the clincher. Their site set an expectation for both shipping method and delivery time based on said method. So, they did blow it, both in practice and in principle.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 09:48:25 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 02, 2016, 09:21:23 pmI've only had this happen once, so far. However, it really is a delivery status in their tracking log. I don't remember which carrier held mine, but it said that it wasn't scheduled to be delivered yet.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 11:48:55 pm
content: Capitalism would dictate they do the fastest, best job they can or people will use another carrier. This is why the USPS has improved so much for package delivery in recent years.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 11:55:32 pm
content: Not exactly on topic, but I'm surprised at how some online sellers ship orders in dozens of separate boxes.I first experienced it with Amazon Prime, which seems to use separate boxes to send you things from each warehouse.Another store that specializes in tools appears to use a separate 8x10 box for each individual item (!) no matter how small. How is that economical?

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 12:09:20 am
content: Dunno... Could be that they don't have to manage inventory for multiple box sizes, and can buy in bulk. Like not having 10V, 16V, 25V, 35V, 50V caps on hand, but just using 50V all the time instead simply because you have a lot, and can buy a lot at a lower price.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 01:15:52 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on September 03, 2016, 12:09:20 amWhat they shipped in 6 separate boxes would have fit in one of those boxes. Granted, there were some heavy steel items and some light items, but those could have been separated using just 2 boxes instead of 6.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 03:43:00 pm
content: Quote from: helius on September 03, 2016, 01:15:52 amSeparate warehouses have caused stuff like this for me as well, from companies such as TEquipment and Zoro. But after I discovered the warehouses were in separate states, it made sense (they don't always have all of the items per order in a single warehouse).Regarding the same warehouse using too large of packaging for an item, I suspectFlyingHackeris correct. Easier inventory control, bulk purchasing, and cheaper shipping rates due to high volume would certainly make the bean counters happy.Multiple boxes from the same warehouse, and item size or weight isn't an issue, then I'm stumped (I am assuming the entire order printout is sequential).