DER DE-5000 questions - just received it and it is up to 1000% wrong with result - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 06:26:11 am
content: I purchased a DE-5000 from DER online and just received it today. They forgot to include the USB / PC Connection, case and English papers but I received the 21, 22, 23 attachments, the device, and an AC Adapter with it.When I turn it on, I get an idle reading of 0.9 to 1+pFIf I short the connectors, it doesn't show SHORT or the words for it, and it doesn't beep as expected like a multimeter would when a circuit is closed. Instead it shows resistance which is ok....When trying discharged SMD ROHS Caps purchased from a reliable source that actively double-checks quality control and values, ie they should be within 5% max tolerance I get 300% to 1000% or more difference... A cap which should be 4.7uF ends up reading as 13.7 to 14.7uF... A cap which is 10,000uF reads as 1,300uF... I'm getting a lot of bad readings which leads me to believe maybe I need to calibrate it ( although it should be calibrated from the factory to within 5% at the highest or 1% or so which is what it looks like in a section of the Japanese manual.Trying the buttons - these are the only ones which do not give the BEEP BEEP negative or can't proceed sound: Power, LCR AUTO, FREQ, PC, HOLD, and Brightness... PC turns the element on the LED on / off and likely powers the IR in the rear... Brightness turns the brightness on for a SHORT period before turning off if I haven't done anything different in x time... It seems to last a minute or so... Seems a bit short...So far all operation has been without the use of the AC Adapter so maybe the brightness stays on longer with it, I'm not sure...If I press sorting, it doesn't matter what I'm doing - BEEP BEEP... Same with Cal, D/Q/ESR/O~, Setup, SER/PAL, ENTER, REL% ( although this does seem to show some value and ▲ delta during certain operations )....I've e-mailed the seller... but I'm hoping someone here with some experience can help me out if the unit isn't defective and I'm doing something wrong....I have tried using this on LEDs but they don't seem to light up as expected... It does seem to give a good result on some of the resistors I've tried but I haven't tried the SMC Resistors yet which will be my next step after checking the battery... Unscrewing the 4 inner screws for the batter cover sounds like, for one screw so far, someone is using their nails on a chalkboard....Some notes:I love the fact that the screws are retained using a simple system so the screws screw into the back panel itself, and only the tip of the screw is threaded and the rest smooth so once it clears the back panel depth, it can slide inward a bit and reach a second brass inset screw insert / nut pressed into the unit itself... The back panel doesn't give you access to much - just the battery and everything is smooth although the way the back panel is designed it looks like it could actually keep out water because the way it looks is there is a moat / ditch surrounding an island which is the battery island and on the left / right side of the unit it has a raised edge so the back panel battery cover fills in the moat and then has a little bit of overhang to make the cover sit flush with the unit...The battery is HARD to remove thanks to a rubbery / foam piece stuck to the inside of the battery compartment and it mates with the bottom of a 9V battery to create a snug fit... It should help with keeping it in place, along side the battery panel, along with the stiff springy contacts for the battery... The battery initially measured at 9.1V and settled at 9.2V shortly after.After putting the battery back in, I turned it on without anything plugged into it in the front and it started with APO ---- 1 kHz Battery ||| Auto LCR Rp 0L. M OhmsAnother side note, the graph or whatever at the bottom doesn't seem to do anything either - I have yet to see it move.The light itself lasts for 30 seconds if sitting idle... 1 minute tops..When I plug the tweezers inIt shows Cp with RP 0L. M Ohms, and 0.9pF and when I short them I get APO of -10.6 and it keeps going all over the place so -9.8 or 9.8 O~ and then Rs of 0.034 Ohms but can go up or down... and in a lot of cases it shows 0L like the unit was just powered on with NOTHING plugged in...When I plug the alligator clips inIt shows Cp with RP 0L. M Ohms, and 0.7pF to 1.4pF but settles at 0.8pFIf I attach the alligator clips to the PCBs which go into the slim-slots then I see APO O~ 0.9 and between Rs 0.190 and 0.206 Ohms for a quick look....Both cases this isn't with the guard wire plugged in...If I plug my old tweezers into the unitIt shows Cp with D APO 0.061 and settled on 0.060 but fluctuates to 0.059 to 0.60 after settling, and 34.5pF but settled around 34.7 ( They were a dollar or a few on eBay ) - why does it show Capacitance? Shouldn't it show resistance? It does when I short them and here it shows 0.159 and crawled to 1.70 and APO of something and then it switched to micro Henries in Ls mode..Many photos show the front of the DE-5000 having a yellow panel, but what isn't shown is the texture or the depth of how it looks.... It is a finely rough cover glazed over and when you look at it, it sparkles in a way.. I would've preferred a different color, but the bright yellow contrasted by the gray buttons would actually help those with visual deficits.The front inlay of the 2 attachments which plug into the front are the same style but gray instead of yellow... It's a nice texture / style.The unit itself inspires confidence in terms of quality because of the feel of the plastic, buttons, finish and heft. I love the design of the back cover with the retained screws, the moat design, and the fit - I, however, am not a fan of 9V batteries in devices because they're hell, and both contacts on the same side means easy shorts if you drop it on a piece of conductive material... That's not even mentioning the price.. All of my devices such as stud finders, etc.. which use 9V I've modified to accept a 9V AC Adapter.. I feel they could've done better with the battery cover though - I hate having to find a screwdriver to change a battery... I would've preferred a coin or some type of slot with a quarter turn and click into place - maybe I'll design something like that at 3D print it when I buy a 3D printer...The rear stand looks a bit flimsy in terms of ease that it can be removed... It looks like it can also be reversed to hand on the wall in 2 separate ways... A shelf style hang so it actually tilts / if it is above you or | straight if you flip the stand around. If you do flip it around you need to use a set of tweezers or a coin in the slot to remove it later. But when rotated so it is pointing up and it looks smooth towards the front it is stiff which can be good in certain situations. The plastic used for the stand may not be the same as used by the unit, or it might be... But after taking the stand off a few times, it looks like the plastic has been WELL WORN in that area around the pivot / connection and looks ugly... I would've used a different material to prevent that type of scuffing with incredibly minimal use...The rear stand inspires fear because it isn't stable - The bottom is curved, but when you open it and put it on a flat surface that curve helps hug the flat surface however it should've been wider and it should have inlays with the rubberized feet placed on the stand to help slippage and they should've also been placed on the unit in such a way that if standing upright the bottom of the unit would have them... This isn't the case so it slips and slides.... And is prone to scratches if used in a rough environment whereby the pads would've offered some protection and shock absorption..I do like how they have a foam insert blocking the 2 IR ports ( I/O? ) but I would've preferred a piece of plastic that actually clipped in with the option to replace it for a shallow angle stand to clip in as an alternative...Back to the topic of rubber feet, there are 2 on the bottom towards the top of the unit. I would've added 2 to the bottom so 4 would be contacting the ground when the unit is on a desk. When upright, as said, I would've added some to the actual stand... If I design a new one to 3D print, I'll definitely add a slot for rubberized feet in addition to widening the stand base..As for functionality - right now resistors seem to test quite well... Everything else does not - hopefully it is just a matter of configuration but most of the buttons don't seem to help me at all or do anything...Thanks for taking the time - I hope some of my comments are helpful to those wanting a more accurate description of the look at feel of the unit. I also hope there is someone who can help me with the issues I'm currently facing...

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 06:35:25 am
content: this might not be your case, but I did have problems with mine when I first got it. I tried the auto-calibration (where you need to short/open the leads), and it would sometimes fail.Eventually the problem was a short in the box the probes connect to. After fixing this short everything worked just fine.Try the calibration, and examine the leads just in case. If you have another pair of probes for it give them a try too.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 07:04:06 am
content: If no manual was supplied with the unit, why don't you just download it from the internet?https://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/Manuals/DE_5000_im.pdfYou would learn a lot from reading it.

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 08:51:55 am
content: Quote from: helius on May 22, 2018, 07:04:06 am+1You have no clue about this meter up to this time (it is NOT multimeter), you need to read manual first.1. You should calibrate the meter (short-open) immediatelly after each switching on first.2. When you are trying to measure capacitors, you first have to discharge it, then you have to decide at which frequency you are going to measure it. Look into data sheet of that capacitor for that frequency.Be patient and read manual please, we all were at some time where you are now.And, regarding tweezers, IIRC I had bad connection in tweezers or badly wired, I had to check wiring with multimeter and fix it myself. Maybe it is your problem also. I couldnt perform calibration (short-open) then, so I had to take that action with multimeter and soldering iron.

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 11:35:17 am
content: I know it isn't a multimeter, but it'd be nice to have an audible alert, LIKE a multimeter, when shorted.I did some of the calibrations - turns out pressing the CAL button doesn't work, but holding it for 3 seconds or so does.. Then it'll say OPEN or OPN and you just have your leads connected and hit the CAL button, wait 30 seconds, then if it PASSes then press CAL again... Then short the connections between + and - and press it again, if pass then press once more and it should be done... I'm wondering whether or not this needs to be done each and every time a different connector is added.... not new, but going from the tweezers per se to the alligator clips attachment... Anyone know? Maybe it's in the manual...I received a response from the seller - Here is the Japanese variant manual in English...http://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdfAs stated, I did discharge the cap before testing it, I did try 1kHz and 100kHz but I'll try other values to see what shows up right. ( You can build your own discharge tool here:http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/captest.htm#ctdtkandhttp://www.instructables.com/id/Safe-Capacitor-Discharge-Tool/)Even after calibration the resistors are still spot on, but caps are completely wrong so I'm going to review the manual...Oh, here are two more from IEThttps://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/Datasheets/DE_5000.pdfhttps://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/Manuals/DE_5000_im.pdfAnd one from DERhttps://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdf

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 11:54:56 am
content: Every time after switching on Calibration is needed just for border values, like e.g. very small capacitors (about 10pF) or very small inductors or small resistors (less than 1ohm).QuoteWe do not measure shorts with this meter, we usually measure serial resistance in electrolytic capacitors, which is sometimes very small, like 0.1 ohm, or 0.01 ohm - how many ohms should be meant like "shorted" and signaled?And, be careful, never ever connect any voltage to input of this meter, it is likely to damage it!Regarding electrolytic capacitor, its capacity is usually defined for 120Hz.So, when you measure your cap which is 10,000uF at 120Hz - what value meter shows?And your multimeter shows similar value, I suppose?Your measured value 1300uF was at 1kHz, right? So, now you know, why we use decoupling capacitors, they keep their capacity up to 10kHz or even up to 100kHz, which no electrolytic capacitor is capable.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 08:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: toli on May 22, 2018, 06:35:25 amExactly the same situation with me, except it was an open.The soldering of the leads both inside the box and the soldering to the actual clips were quite bad.

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2018, 01:33:58 pm
content: The unit I received had the battery pre-installed.. The seller told me the manufacturer does this but I've seen several unboxing videos which all show the battery wrapped in plastic in the extra space in the box. Also, if you're a company that created the product and you're doing bench tests - would you rather unscrew 4 screws, but the battery in, turn it on and test... or connect the 9v ac adapter ( which likely runs on the same rails )? I'd use the second option because of efficiency...Additionally, leaving batteries in electronics is a terrible idea, so if you manufacture electronics you'd know leaving a battery in an electronic device when it could be on the shelf for years would likely result in the product being returned because of corroded terminals and spilled battery acid in the compartment... I wouldn't accept a 'new' product in that state.I'll take the unit apart and take some photos...I just took it apart and typically where the long burn resistor is in D5 right next to the battery wire... it doesn't seem to be there...Did they start removing this on newer models or is this a 'refurb' where someone simply removed the protection from it? If so I'm a little disappointed....Should I take photos of the other side too?https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhmqsg2q9bi720v/20180610_092408.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/vplgjqff3hk9pjc/20180610_092412.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgmbyvrbx7pg92c/20180610_092419.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/xuxvb7b6r4ktm9f/20180610_092734.jpg?dl=0Or zipped:https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlie6alczy6ccrk/DER_DE-5000.zip?dl=0

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2018, 04:48:38 pm
content: My recent unit also came with the (non-)protection diode spots left unpopulated (both D3 and D5). However, the DC-input bulk capacitor spot was instead populated with apparently a bit bigger diode (which actually doesn't improve anything). Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-ee-de-5000-unboxing-and-teardown/msg1551754/#msg1551754Leaving the diodes away is almost "just the same", since proper protection would not break itself from a reverse polarity incident, or, in worst case, would be a real fuse (in front of diode or such), easy to swap without other tools than screwdriver to open the case. (A single FET per power input would also do it, but I guess that was too costly, as they are leaving even small capacitors unpopulated.)(EDIT: and there was no battery within the package at all. That is the way I prefer; no point in paying for some unknown piece of garbage battery.)