absurd marketing bullshittery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 am
content: I was munching on a bag of chips. Ingredients : Potato , safflower oil , salt.In big bold lettering on the front of the package : Gluten freeOf course it's gluten free. it doesn't contain any wheat or other grains that contain glutenin.They might as well put things like "Does not contain elephants" or "Comes without steering wheel"what's next ?A bag of salad that says "Vegan friendly" ?A bag of rice that says "No cows inside" ?post your marketing bullshittery gripes below. i'm curious to see what other bullshittery is out there.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:00:07 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 amA few of my food marketeer's captain obv faves, are:Peanuts: "May contain nuts" and variants thereof for other obvious contents of food packets.Also, "Wackaging", where every company VASTLY over-compensates for mediocre product, by making their foods "talk" to us, as if we're "friends" with a strawberry milkshake! LOL --->https://www.ediblegeography.com/the-rise-of-wackaging/Hey companies, here's an idea - focus on the BASICS and cut the crap - tell us what's inside, and don't "make it talk". Maybe add just a little more than the utilitarian, spartan nature of military rations, but not far off that, just a simple photo, no stupid fancy background wallpapers, WE KNOW WHAT FOOD LOOKS LIKE! Here's an example from my youth - a good example, bare essentials (because customers didn't used to be dimwit schmucks, QUITE as much [cause and effect?]):Back in the old days, when people actually USED their brains, they weren't treated like morons to talk down to... well, not AS much.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:30:33 am
content: FWIW if we talk about chips then garbage made from potato flakes may contain plenty of gluten. Layman may not know the difference between real chips and junk like Pringles which often contain more of other components than potato. Not to say even in real chips whatever additive was used may contain grain products. With processed foods made these days it's not as straightforward as it may seem. On other hand things like "cholesterol free" vegetable oils are really lame.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 08:13:45 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 23, 2022, 07:30:33 amHaving clear food labeling laws helps.In the UK, chips are what some other English speaking countries call fries, although they're much thicker, thus have a lower fat content.Crisps are a snack food, consisting of thinly sliced potato, fried in oil, salted and flavoured, nothing else. No one here refers to Pingles, Skips, Doritos etc. as crisps. They are completely different.Also it you want nice ice cream, go for dairy ice cream, which has to contain real milk and a certain amount of cream, otherwise you get sugar, reconstituted skimmed milk, palm or coconut oil, thickeners and colourings.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 08:28:39 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 08:13:45 amHowever if you are gluten intolerant, you'd prefer a clear statement that it's gluten free, rather that reading a long list of contents and miss something that may be grain derived. It's completely different from "Vegan" and sorts of which are not related to health risks.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 08:31:33 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 23, 2022, 08:28:39 amIf you stick with plain, ready salted crisps, you'll be fine. If a trace is an issue, due to cross contamination, then you have an allergy, not an intolerance.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 08:34:01 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 08:31:33 amSo do you want people who have health problems to stick to plain foods only? People with severe gluten intolerance may die if accidentally ingest it. So clear statement really helps.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 08:52:59 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 23, 2022, 08:34:01 amYou seem to have confused having an intolerance, with an allergy. They are different things.If a you die as a result of ingesting a food, then you have an allergy, not an intolerance. An intolerance just means the body has a hard time digesting it, so small traces don't do any harm. An allergy is an immune reaction, which can cause death, if severe. People who have severe allergies need to be vary careful. Few manufacturers guarantee their foods are absolutely free from allergens, as cross-contamination can occur in the factory, or at any point in the ingredients' supply chain.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 09:02:29 am
content: And now we’re having an argument about lactose labelling. Wow. Only on EEVblog 😂😂

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 09:53:37 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 08:52:59 amhttps://www.healthline.com/nutrition/signs-you-are-gluten-intolerant

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 10:35:53 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 23, 2022, 09:53:37 amI'm not sure what your point is.Intolerance and allergy are different phenomena.https://erudus.com/editorial/the-food-agenda/difference-allergy-intolerancehttps://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/food-allergy/expert-answers/food-allergy/faq-20058538https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/allergy-intolerance.html

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 10:38:22 am
content: Quote from: eti on May 23, 2022, 07:00:07 amTechnically, peanuts are legumes. Thus someone quite pedantic (perhaps using the letters I T E in a pseudonym) may argue that they are not nuts.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 10:51:13 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 23, 2022, 10:38:22 amMany foods we call nuts are not really nuts. Almonds are another example and are related to peaches.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 10:57:14 am
content: Indeed. Although there is a peanut allergy the warning is no doubt about possible contamination from other foods processed in the same facility which would be actual nuts.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 11:02:10 am
content: My dog's food has "not been tested on animals" sticker

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 11:24:15 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 23, 2022, 10:57:14 amIt's arse covering. There's always the tiniest risk of contamination so they have tell people, so they don't get sued.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 11:25:56 am
content: It's also BPA free. I don't know what BPA is but its some sort of plastic, and it is somehow bad for you.And probably contains materials that are known to the state of California to cause cancer.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 01:46:13 pm
content: One can easily find information about BPA: seehttps://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/sya-bpa/index.cfmYou can pursue the references in that site to see if you consider BPA to be a good thing to ingest.It is an example of a chemical that can easily "leach" from plastic containers and get into the contents, and then into your body.

author: Peter Taylor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 02:15:07 pm
content: Potato Chips. Warning. May Be Contained In A Bag.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 02:44:54 pm
content: How about Gluten Free WiFi

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 03:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: Peter Taylor on May 23, 2022, 02:15:07 pmwarning bag volume is not representative of actual content volume. most of it is air...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 03:06:06 pm
content: Before the mods kill this as non technical :just found this one ....from the MG chemicals catalogue none the less....i guess its to guarantee no static in your receiver.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 05:09:43 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 amIt's not bullshittery, a coeliac friend really opened my eyes to foods that *shouldn't* contain gluten but often do without listing on the ingredients (grated cheese for instance)Having 'Gluten Free' on a packet is a written guarantee it is indeed gluten free so a coeliac can grab a snack without having to pore over the ingredients list or worry that there's somehting that's not listed or the product has been contaminated by another process in the same factory.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 05:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 23, 2022, 05:09:43 pmingredients : potato , safflower oil, salt . Tell me , what parts contain gluten ?A lot of this stuff is hype. look our product is this and that. Many people latch on to the buzzword du jour...This bag of lettuce is lactose free , gluten free , vegan / vegetarian / ovo-pescatarian and omnivore approved. Not for fruitarians.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 05:34:31 pm
content: An amusing political commentator, about a year ago, said his political adversaries drank "plant-based beer".https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-host-rages-against-plant-based-beer-2021-4

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 05:36:34 pm
content: I'm not going to get into this "gluten free" thing in particular, but I'm sure many people would be surprised to know the whole list of ingredients of typical food and how you would never have suspected some ingredients to be in there in the first place. Of course one of the most common is added sugar in just about everything. Do people naturally expect significant amounts of sugar in salty food? Yet it's there. But the list is endless.Of course there is also hype around alleged "better" industrial food. Still industrial shit.And some mentions are there just to help people choose their food based on the assumption that they might actually not know what food contains and why. It may sound obvious to you that lettuce is lactose or gluten free, but how many people actually know what lactose (or better yet, gluten) really is?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 05:48:41 pm
content: Kellogg's "Special K" cereal looks like a rice cereal that would therefore be gluten-free, but "wheat gluten" is actually the second ingredient on the list, after rice.https://www.specialk.com/en_US/products/cereal/original-cereal.htmlUS regulations require ingredients to be listed in order of fractional quantity.Just like one should read the manual, one should read the ingredient list if there be a problem.Kellogg's "Rice Krispies" contain malt, so they are not labeled "gluten-free".https://www.kelloggs.com/en_US/nutrition/are-rice-krispies-gluten-free.html

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 06:12:11 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 23, 2022, 05:09:43 pmFew people with coeliac disease are so sensitive to gluten, the tiniest trace would cause them severe harm. An ex-girlfriend was gluten intolerant. At first she was really paranoid about it, but soon discovered traces weren't an issue. It's true there are degrees of severity and it's always better to err on the side of caution.Nowadays I believe there's a gluten free food checker app available, but it might be too strict for many people.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 06:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 amNo it absolutely isn't bullshittery. I suffer from Coeliac disease, it isn't a gluten alergy, it is an autoimune condition. Exposure to gluten causes a T-Cell immune reaction which strips the vilii off the internal surface of the gut (causing so called smooth gut'), drastically reducing its surface area and so, ability to absorb nutrients. It can manifest in a number of confusing ways, often delaying diagnosis. If it goes undiagnosed for many decades, it leads to increased risk of small bowel T-Cell Lymphoma. After a bad gluten hit, it can take several months for the gut to fully heal which can be detectedinby blood tests over that time.Anyone who says that gluten free labelling is bullshittery should be made undergo the tests for Coeliac, which include several rather unpleasant endoscopies and small bowel biopsies, both to confirm the diagnosis and to ensure that the gluten free diet is working effectively. I have mixed feelings about people who diagnose themselves fromwomens[EDIT: lifestyle] magazines(sorry, I can't immediately think of a gender neutral term for such publications). I'm sure some of these people must have some form of gluten intolerance or alergy, but if they believe they are, then they should have it medically confirmed (to avoid potentially life threatening problems later) and be forced to follow astrictabsolute gluten free diet, rather than a faddy one. At the same time, such interest hasvastlyimproved the variety of gluten free food compared to what there was 20odd years ago when I was finally diagnosed. Back then, the only way to establish gluten free status was to look individual products up on a register, such as the Coeliac UK book (and as Zero999 says, the app too now).Ingredients marking is still a nightmare but much improved, as is stability. As Pringles were mentioned above - once upon a time they used to be gluten free...then they weren't. No warning on the packaging, they just changed the ingredients one day. The same with many other manufacturers' products - you have to check each time. A hint, if you want decent English Mustard, buy the Colemans powdered in the tin - if you buy the glass jar you will find they have mixed it with glutenous shit! Porridge oats are ok for most (not all) Coeliacs, but did you know that a small proportion of wheat tends to seed among the crop too? You need the gluten free one.Then you come to the unmarked products or the "May contain" / "Produced in a factory that also manufactures..." These are the ones where they just don't care, have ordinary wheat flour dust floating in the air, or run various products through their machines without cleaning them fully first (that one is a nightmare for people with potentially fatal nut, egg, etc. allergies too). The whole thing is a nightmare (particularly for the recently diagnosed) where actually having products specified as gluten free helps immensly.So Mr free_electron, please excuse me if I tell you to take your "absurd marketing bullshittery" and stick it where the sun don't shine. You know not of what you speak.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 06:33:58 pm
content: Also maybe of interest: At least in germany/EU law, some stuff is allowed not to be declared, when it is below a certain threshold and deemed a helper ingredient- like anti-clogging additives for flour, for example...I had a colleague, that was very gluten sensitive, and another has problems with histamin allergy- and those told me lots of stories that in ready-made food lots of hidden ingredients are there, but came through the backdoor with some other ingredient and are therefore not declared in plain.So apart from being able to read through ingredient lists, having some simple label on a bag of whatever stuff looks nice that declares it to be free of $incompatible_stuff, is for some people a certain decision maker- or reminds them of "hey, last time I had some tasty chips was long ago, lets take them"And to be honest: If brands do not matter, and I stand in front of a display or rack with different brands, and one of them has clearly labelled to be free of stuff I do not want in my food, the other brand does not have that big label, and prices are in an equal range, my buying decision will automatically swing to the labelled one- simply because it saves me the effort to read the ingredient list...Example from about two weeks ago: Went to a supermarket with a colleague, to fetch some beer and snacks to hang out later that evening. He told me some time ago, that he has issues with lots of chips, but the Pringles original version are fine with him (only salted). I then looked for other things, and asked if he determined what ingredient in that stuff he is not fine with, and he explained that it basically was trial and error to find out. After looking on a bag of tortillas (organic), and doing some work convincing him that there is nothing in there that is also not present in the Pringles version deemed good, we went for it- and now he is absolutely hooked on that stuff...Means: Not everyone really reads (and understands) what the ingredient list means...

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:08:25 pm
content: .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 23, 2022, 06:24:42 pmWill you read what i wrote please ?INGREDIENTS : POTATO , SALT , SAFFLOWER OILWhere are the gluten ?I don't deny there are people with severe gluten allergies , and am fully in favor of making sure they are aware what could cause them harm and make it easier for them to pick the right foods.But this bold :"gluten free" (it's larger than the other text on the front of the packaging!) on something that cannot contain gluten is just ... why ? You made allusions to "self diagnosed" people after reading certain magazines. That's what that is for. They don't care about the people who really have a health problem. They use (abuse) it to fetch the gullible ones ( which is a much larger target group than the group that really has a medical condition)You buy a bottle of cranberry juice.Label says 100% juice, but 80% is apple juice. Well, it said juice ... it should say 100% Cranberry juice (and there are such products , but most of them are 100%juice category)And there's those fruit drink pouches for kids ( does not contain actual juice)More technical nowDeoxit. There's D5 and D100.a 0.85 oz can of deoxit D5 is 16$ :https://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT-D5-Spray-percent-S-CD5S-2/dp/B098831JTS/ref=sr_1_10?crid=FKMVMFIKT53X&keywords=deoxit+d5&qid=1653332059&sprefix=deoxit+d5%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-10a 2 oz can of deoxit D100 is 24$ :https://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeoxIT-D100S-2-Spray-oz/dp/B01IYPTZ3K/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1KP7UZEZKWEDO&keywords=deoxit+d100&qid=1653332193&sprefix=deoxit+d100%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-9So i get more than double the product for only 50% more cost... but ... d5 contains 5% actual product in a solvent. D100 is pure . So i get 40 times more actual product (20 times more concentrate times volume, actually closer to 50 times more)This is just ridiculous.We live in a world where everything has to be politically correct but at the same time is so full of loopholes it is all noise. you can't trust anything.At the same time we are being bombarded with superfluous information and statements that are technically correct, but have no meaning.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:27:19 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 07:22:13 pmAs emece67 just pointed out, the oil that they are fried in (I was once told in a chip shop that "the heat kills it" when I asked if their chips were fried in the same oil as they used for battered fish). Packaging and processing equipment etc. - Did you not read what I wrote?EDIT:QuoteHave youanyidea how long it takes to read through the ingredients of every processed food product you buy (and then search for the 'May contain traces... disclaimer)?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:29:22 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:30:02 pmDid you perhaps misunderstand this bit of my post which you quoted?"but often do without listing on the ingredients".Yes, it's often buzzword wankery and yes, it's often 'wellness' bullshit from 'lifestyle gurus' but it's still incredibly useful for people who suffer with genuine, medically diagnosed allergies and intolerances.I fail to understand why having more information that may help people upsets you so much?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 07:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on May 23, 2022, 06:33:58 pmYup, hash browns, shouldn't contain any gluten at all but a certain well known UK brand uses flour to make them an attractive golden brown colour when fried, and guess what, it's not listed in the ingredients because it's below some defined percentage of the total, an ex of mine found out the hard way, she suffered for that breakfast.Which harks back to my point, having more information about food ingredients and/or a bold declaration of 'xxxxxxxx free' is damned useful.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 08:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: eti on May 23, 2022, 07:00:07 amI remembered in late 1999 at a school I didn't like the noname detergent that caused marks all over my clothes and it had this unpleasant smell so I went to the supermarket and brought a few things and one of them was these Persil tablets. Worked as advertised. Cleaned the clothes and didn't leave much marks and that was it. It had a small scent but I didn't mind that.About two years later they disappeared for a couple of weeks, I couldn't find them selling in most supermarkets or shops but managed to pick some up from some convenience store. When they returned in the masses, they had this fancy new packaging and decorations with "New improved" blah blah blah all over it and I noticed a change in appearance of the tablets with the multi coloured rings around them.I didn't think anything of it. When I used one and after the washing it had this really strong scent and I was not happy about that. I had to rinse and rewash again without any detergent. I complained and I vaguely remembered the response I got was that it was part of their new "branding" and if I am unhappy with it just to take it back to where I got it from for a full refund and choose something else.Felt very insulted. The job of these things are to clean the clothes nothing more.Instead I felt used a billboard for their product attracting unnecessary and unwanted attention.I couldn't tolerate having the air around me polluted with it and the distraction with the strong scent.I tried a few others but settled for a liquid thing that was a little more expensive.Now I see many have this scent so I have it washed without detergent and also they make me itch.The good thing is from this experience I take marketing bullshit seriously when I detect it. When I read certain words in a certain combination I tend to get suspicious. Say they cheapen something and make it inferior but make the makerting materials look prettier and trendier as if that would make the buyer happier, put all fancy words in there where I have get a dictionary out to find it is utter meaningless.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 09:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 23, 2022, 06:24:42 pmThat makes perfect sense.In the case of my ex, she found it was cumulative. The odd little bit, every now and then wasn't a bit problem, but if she was too lax, for too long, there were severe consequences. I think also small concentrations over long periods were just as bad, i.e. if she ate chips fried in the same oil as battered fish for one meal a week and was good for the other meals it wasn't an issue, but if she were to eat like that every day, she would slowly deteriorate. It's a weird disease and can be very difficult to manage. Your mileage may vary.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 09:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 23, 2022, 07:27:19 pmyes i did. company makes chips. only chips. but, granted there are others.QuoteGranted. the lists these days are long (do we really need all that crap in our food ?)I agree having upfront warnings are great but that raises the question : where do we stop ? Peanut allergy ? (they can use peanut oil to make fries ..) . Certain anti foaming agents used can cause severe reactions.Soon on a package of chips near you : Gluten free, peanut oil free , olestra free , soy free , vegetarian (fries can be made in animal fat) ... see where this is headed ?We live in a reverse world . The front says nothing, the ingredient list on the other hand...The other problem is consistency. Brand a clearly labels their product "gluten free", other brands don't. And their products may very well be gluten free as well. Do you really think they do it out of compassion towards people who suffer from gluten allergy ? What is the size of that audience ? I mean the people who actually have a gluten problem versus the group who thinks they have a gluten problem ? That's my "irritation" .Read the following attentively (there is a danger i will get flamed again) : Any new "fad" that comes along is picked up for marketing. I AMNOTCALLING GLUTEN ALLERGY A FAD ! i'm saying that there is so much buzz these days (like said before : by certain "specialist" magazines") that people start believing all kinds of things and start doing all kinds of things. Marekting picks that up very quickly and exploits it. That is what irks me.We live in a world where people go to the doctor asking (mandating) for all kinds of medications "cause they saw a commercial on tv". but doctor it hurts everywhere , it must be severe ! it hurts if i push here, and there , and there and there and there , anywhere and everywhere. In reality it turns out their finger is broken....I'd rather have a complete ingredients list without omission of anything. If that list is as long as my arm : ditch it...I was reading the label on some prepackaged bread ... you need a phd in chemistry to unravel what the hell is in that. if i make bread it's whole wheat flour (none of the bleached, enriched monthiamin crap) water , yeast (no aluminum-whatever) , a pinch of salt and a pinch of sugar (to start the yeast) . My mom used to go to the local mill to buy flour ( there was a farm closeby that had a windmill. The farmer harvested wheat at the end of summer , ground it in the windmill. the only additives you would find in that flour would be an accidental unfortunate bug that got ground down by the millstones.)

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 11:46:03 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 23, 2022, 05:36:34 pmOne thing I never expected to have sugar added was packaged bacon. Totally surprised me when I saw it recently. (I don't think I've looked at the ingredients before). So I bought the one without sugar added and guess what?....It tastes like bacon! I'm wondering if the sugar is added to balance the salty taste.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2022, 11:47:30 pm
content: I'm not sure if this qualifies as marketing BS, but I've seen directions posted on a package of a bathtub drain plug. Really! How could someone not know how to use it?...Why would they be buying it if they didn't?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:19:15 am
content: Wait until the OP discovers kosher/halal/ital labeling. Some people want to be advertised to, the market decided it was too big to ignore so it ended up on the front of the packet rather than hidden in a footnote on the rear.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:43:43 am
content: Quote from: MikeK on May 23, 2022, 11:46:03 pmSugar is a natural taste intensifier, and can help (by drawing some water) with drying bacon.Yes, bad world, as sugar is not considered something you have (legally) to declare for its taste intensifying abilities, so a producer could claim that it is "free of artificial intensifiers"

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:55:34 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 amThe absurd marketing may be somewhat different than you think. One of my kids friends has real and extreme gluten intolerance. She can have a severe reaction from something like potato chips which nominally doesn't have gluten, but which has been processed in a facility which processes other gluten containing foods, or commonly, on the same process and packaging machines which processed another non-gluten free product. For her there is a real and critical difference between a product which is truly gluten free and one which has no nominal gluten containing ingredients. She literally has to call the production facilities for each product she eats and find what they mean by gluten free. As you can imagine such conversations are not high on most producers priority list so this is a painful process.Since gluten free is currently a fad, many products in the latter category are labeled gluten free. The bullshittery is claiming a product is gluten free when technically it is low gluten content. A more useful and honest label would never say gluten free, but would say guaranteed less than X ppm gluten.There are peanut allergy sufferers who have similar issues.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 02:18:54 am
content: I saw this disclaimer in an advertisement for legal services. A close paraphrase: Not licensed to practice law in Montana, Iowa, Tennessee, Oregon, Maine, Florida, South Carolina, Delaware, Vermont, Arizona, or any other state. My assumption is that they didn't think anyone would read the whole sentence.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 02:20:08 am
content: just saw a package of cheese .. "contain milk and milk products" no shit sherlock ! who'd have thought that that was even a remote possibility ?Now i've probably offended the politically correct lactose intolerant people. note : i'm not making fun of , nor denying the existence of lactose intolerant people. i know several personally. I can't imagine living a life without being able to enjoy an ice-cream( a real ice-cream made with eggs, cream, sugar and vanilla. none of that soy milk , guar gum , ground-up beetles vanilla flavor crap.) or yoghurt without having the trots for four days.I'm just wondering why the hell a packet of cheese needs a label that says "contains milk". isn't that obvious ? its cheese ! And before you cry "what about plant based or soy based?". THAT AIN'T CHEESE ! that's a substitute.Which is another one of the things i wonder about. "we need to eat plant based stuff. soy based bayon , beyond burger , tofy shaped like a t-bone, including a fake piece of bone... i can get that you don't like eating animals. fully understood. but why does it need to be made to LOOK LIKE MEAT ? I don't have my steak mashed up to look like a block of tofu or extruded to look like soybean sprouts. have a head of lettuce. it's actually made from processed pork chops.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 02:25:28 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 23, 2022, 05:36:34 pmI once developed an ingredient delivery and mixing system for Keebler Cookies. I found it interesting that if the label said sugar free there couldn't be a trace of sugar detectable. And we went to great mechanical and logical lengths to ensure a sugar free mix had undetectable amounts of sugar. On the other hand since none of the labels said 'bug free' the mix could legally contain insects...at least up to a point.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 02:35:12 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 24, 2022, 02:20:08 amThat's because we now live in a world of fake cheese. And in some cases it's more expensive than real cheese.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 02:52:26 am
content: Quote from: MikeK on May 24, 2022, 02:35:12 amLOL. so true. cheese from a spray can... Somewhere in switzerland there is a cow yodeling mnoooooooooooooooo

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 03:01:08 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 24, 2022, 02:20:08 amWas that actually a package of cheese, or "pasteurized process cheese food" or other industrial product?https://www.delish.com/food-news/a46872/your-favorite-cheese-might-not-be-real/has the legal definitions in the US for Velveeta-type products.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 04:45:36 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on May 24, 2022, 03:01:08 amit was some goat cheese with blueberries. can't find the wrapper.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 06:20:36 am
content: Quote from: nightfire on May 24, 2022, 12:43:43 amSugar is often added to meats to enhance browning, as it caramelises when cooked.I used to work at a supermarket where they sold, rotisserie basted chicken, which had sugar added to the marinade. It was only a little bit. Not enough to cause a problem to a diabetic.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 08:38:23 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 24, 2022, 04:45:36 amI might be thick but I would assume that didn't contain milk or milk products. Sure, it would contain goat milk, but that's not 'milk' as we generally know it.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 amA "Gluten Free" label isn't bullshittery. It says that the product doesn't contain ANY gluten, not even trace amounts. Unlike products that are made in the same facility as gluten containing products and that can contain traces of gluten because of cross contamination. My wife is allergic to gluten and can't have even trace amounts of it. One of her BIG complaints is that, in most places, she can't even eat the french fries. Even though FFs are nothing but potatoes fried in oil, she can't eat them because most places use the same oil and and fryers to cook breaded items such as breaded chicken fingers. And yes, eating FFs cooking in oil that has been used to cook any breaded product WILL make her sick. Ask me how I know! Her FFs MUST be cooked in a fryer and in oil that hasn't been used to cook any breaded food product. But surprisingly few restaurants are willing to have or use two different fryers.Eating "Gluten Free" is a fad by some people but for many people it's a medical necessity. I'm happy to say that many restaurants are becoming aware of that and if you tell them that you want something gluten free then they will ask if you have a gluten allergy and if you tell them "yes" then they will write it on the order instead of just verbally telling the cooks and food prep people so they will take more caution not to cross contaminate the food. You would be surprised at how many times we're ordered simple things like salads and we find pieces of bread, meat, pasta and other vegetables in it that shouldn't be there and that fell in while the kitchen was preparing another dish.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on May 24, 2022, 12:12:27 pmIt's a minefield. Food allergies: peanut, wheat/gluten, milk, egg etc. are becoming increasingly common. The problem is, avoiding cross-contamination adds extra cost and it's virtually impossible to eliminate the smallest risk. There's the dilemma of catering for everyone, including those with allergies and charge higher prices, or the majority and charge less.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:28:21 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 08:31:33 amWrong! Gluten intolerance isn't an allergy, it's a medical condition where gluten can and will eventually destroy the villi in the intestines. Without the villi, then you can't absorb the necessary annuitants and you will develop a wide range of symptoms (see below). If it was an allergy then merely touching it on the skin would immediately produce a reaction and at that point most people would know that they had a problem, but an intolerance is much more subtle and takes much longer to recognize and historically by the time that anyone recognized it the damage was already done. And yes, there are a small number of people that do have a true gluten allergy but there are many more that aren't allergy but still can't tolerate eating it.People, including me, use the term allergy for simplicity but it's more complicated than that and if you're going to discuss it or make decisions about your diet or anyone else's diet and food needs then you need to understand the difference.If people with a gluten intolerance continue to eat gluten then they eventually develop Celiac Disease. But technically by the time that it's considered "Celiac Disease" the villi are completely destroyed and the damage is already done and is irreversible. They found the intolerance in my wife before she had full blown Celiac but every time that she eats anything containing gluten she has all of the symptoms described below. Even trace amounts of gluten will cause most of the symptoms listed below.Celiac Disease. <https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/signs-you-are-gluten-intolerant>

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:40:59 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 11:24:15 amNot as much as you might think. In the US most nuts (not peanuts) are grown on very large commercial farms that usually grow a WIDE variety of nuts and that use the same machinery and the same production plants to harvest, handle, process and package the nuts. Cross contamination is almost a given in those mega scale operations.Go to California and take a tour of the "Nut Tree" between Sacramento and San Francisco sometime. Or go into one of the Hershey's plants where they make nut laden chocolate bars.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 12:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 09:51:59 pmI agree, at least partly, there is definitely an an issue of where do you stop. GF is a fairly straightforward one. Most hospitals have a Coeliac clinic, mainly targeted on helping people manage their diet and checking that it is successful, after diagnosis. For 'old hands' it usually a matter of an annual blood test, the occasional bone density scan (it affects Calcium uptake) and a chat with a dietician. Fail one blood test and you feel like a naughty child, fail two in a row though and you're likely to be threatened with the three-eyed snake heading towards your gagged mouth! It's a matter of managing a long term condition. Things like nuts, egg, dairy (? not sure about that one) cause acute life threatening symptoms. (Diagnosed) sufferers carry an epi-pen and with prompt medical attention, adrenalin, maybe breathing support normally fully recover within a few hours. These all clearly need to be specifically labeled. Things that cause contact dermatitis in some people, for instance, can probably be left to the customer 'that brand gives me a rash' response. Vegitarian, Vegan etc. are personal choice, but are already normally clearly marked. In short, anything that can cause medical 'damage' should be included. Consistency in labelling is definitely an issue, although in the UK, lobbying of government and manufacturers has lead to the widespread adoption of the 'crossed grain' symbol for instance.QuoteAs I mentioned the "the group who thinks they have a gluten problem" actually have a benificial effect for those of us who really do. The market and variety has grown rapidly in the past 10-15 years to exploit these people, it's supply and demand. I'm happy about this (things used to be grim, and would otherwise have remained so), apart from getting irritated by these people, their rattling on about it witout following it up, and the articles that drive them (but lots of people irritate me - I've reached that age!).QuoteAt least that isn't a problem in the UK. Advertising of prescription medication is banned (I think). It certainly doesn't happen anyway. The first time I saw it on US tv, I was truly shocked!Quote[Informative rant]That's an interesting one actually. Gluten is a completely man-made problem. Primitive wheat type grains, eg. Sorghum, were naturally virtually gluten free. It's many generations of selective breeding that have resulted in increasing gluten levels, first in hand baking, and then a massive increase with industrial scale food production, where manufacturers have demanded higher and higher gluten levels in their Wheat supplies. Wheat is (was?) cheap, it's the gluten which is the aptly named 'glue' that makes it possible to manufactur the 'nice' soft uniform supermarket sliced loaf, likewise cakes, pastry etc. It's a dirt cheap binder and thickener. Without it things just crumble, can't be machine sliced etc. If they can't use gluten then they have to resort to more expensive alternatives like pure corn starch, Xanthan gum etc. to achieve the same effect - it costs them more. Gluten levels are now so high that even people without an actual medical condition may actually be starting to suffer the magazine article 'bloating' etc. I don't know.[/Informative rant]

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 01:04:47 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 23, 2022, 05:09:43 pmYeap, just aboutallgrated cheese is dusted with flour to prevent the strands from sticking together. That's just one of the many products that you won't expect to find gluten but you do. I dare any of you to look through the list of ingredients in your regular food purchases and see how many contain gluten! In my experience probably well over 80%. It's RARE that any soup doesn't have gluten and even things like the roasted chicken and sliced meats sold in the delicatessen have been injected with water containing gluten in order to make them weigh more and thus more profitable. Go read the list of ingredients!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 01:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on May 24, 2022, 12:43:43 amYeap, anytime that I see words like "artificial" my BS meter goes off! You would be amazed at some of the "natural" and even "Organic" crap that is added to food today! Go look up the list of ingredients of a package of Twinkies!As one previous posted pointed out, you can buy a bottle of "Cranberry Juice" and, if you choose well, it will say "100% juice", but if you read closer you're likely to find that it's 80% apple or other cheap juice instead of the Cranberry Juice that you wanted.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 01:52:41 pm
content: Among the more ridiculous looking food marketing claims i have seen is certified organic mineral water.Mineral water is already extremely regulated in Germany, the organic certification does not really do much, if anything.Not even mentioning the question whatever the heck is "organic" ("Bio") about Mineral Water. I very much hope so that there is nothing organic in that water :pAnother thing that looks ridiculous, but may not actually be, is vegan apple juice. It should be obvious that apple juice is vegan.But it does not have to be: To get clear juice, gelatine can be used. Enough of it removed afterwards so that it is not required to be listed as ingredient.From what i can see, call the current "Gluten awareness" a fad or not (i'm sure it is a fad in many cases), it has made getting groceries for people with celiac disease a lot easier. Those labels, similar to Vegan, Vegetarian, Kosher or Halal don't take anything away from me, so i just do not really care about them.I myself have a mild food intolerance. Interestingly my case seems to be somewhat rare, and i can't find much about my circumstances. I can't eat anything containing "Yeast Extract". If i do, i will get a lasting headache for about a day, the strength is related to the amount i eat. But, and that is the interesting thing: I am totally fine with MSG.But since there is a lot of FUD going around regarding MSG, many manufacturers replaced MSG with yeast extract.I dread any product that claims "New improved recipe" or "No artificial flavor enhancers". Almost all of these have introduced yeast extract.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 03:24:50 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 24, 2022, 12:57:08 pmthat would be the perfect way of doing it. a simple symbol in a fixed position on packaging. informative, targeting the audience it is for and to the point.Quotei've joined that club recently...Quoteyou should see some of them. for depression, "happy pills" ... And the ads in magazines. Once you are over 50 your doctor becomes your dealer. Have some lipitor , we'll throw in a bunch of others too.QuoteWell , there is a story going around about the french baguettes The french had baguettes for hundreds of years (and regular round loaves of bread). When the US came to liberate france after ww2 they brought massive amounts of american white flour.the french tried making their usual bread and it didn't really work well. they are used to a more coarse flour. (pain gris : grey bread) This american white fine flour just did not produce what they were used to so they altered the process and ended up with what is now seen as a baguette. The french have different styles of baguettes. Flutes, batards , batons, ficelles , pistolets... When i grew up we were living like 10kilometres from the french border. every saturday morning , early : drive into france to the boulangerie and get a bunch of freshly baked stuff...breakfast was croissants .. plain , chocolate, curled ones with raisins ... lunch was baguette jampbon-fromage.. ( the Boucherie : butchers) was right nextdoor to the boulangerie... tasty french boiled ham ... pate ... and the cheese shop was across the street ... every couple of weeks we drove a bit deeper ( like 20 more km) to go to Auchan : a big french supermarket. to buy wine and other things. They had an electronics section where there was an amstrad computer. with BASIC in FRENCH ! every keyword was translated in french ! POUR x = 1 VERS 10. IMPR (short for imprimez , print ) .. that's all i remember ... it was a brown machine with a casette on the right side of the keyboard..

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 03:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on May 24, 2022, 01:04:47 pmquestion : are we talking gluten or glutenin ? as i understand it gluten forms when you add water to flour and knead it. it is the kneading that forms the molecular strands.on the topic of cheese. i saw a recipe the other day to make home made mozzarella .. I Was curious, so i watched it.You take milk, butter or margarine, salt, corn starch, make a paste , add some store bought mozzarella , roll it in a ball , refrigerate. now you have home made mozzarellano you don't . you made crap.https://fb.watch/dcJ22gdjYd/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 06:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on May 24, 2022, 01:52:41 pmDreaded MSG is naturally contained in many if not most of the products, including yeast. So yeast extract is a way how to put a lot of MSG which is not chemically clean into a product without ever mentioning MSG. A similar thing happens with shampoo. If you read something like Sodium Coco Sulfate, It means a dirty version of namely sodium lauryl (SLS) and sodium laureth (SLES) sulfates where it's way less controlled what's actually there. But sounds way more natural.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2022, 11:12:39 pm
content: Sometimes you wish there was some bullshittery. Here in the US, the ingredient list runs from highest percentage to lowest percentage though the actual percentage is not required (allows for trade secrets on recipes). The wife bought into one of those diet programs where they provide the food. One day I idly looked at the can which contained tuna salad and the first ingredient on the the list was titanium dioxide. No wonder folks lose weight on such diets.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 07:38:43 am
content: That was the same in the EU for a long time. Only recently the percentage of "prominent" ingredients has to be included.Your tuna salad would have to list the amount of tuna, for example.When looking at nutritional tables on US products, i find it ridiculous that the manufacturers are allowed to round down. Crap like that results in "sugarfree" Tic Tacs, that are actually 90% or more sugar.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 07:55:17 am
content: green logic in labelsfood resources are limited, now there is less, thanks to you.orcarbon dioxide is a problem, so why are you breathing.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 01:45:41 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on May 25, 2022, 07:38:43 amThe legal reason is that the sugar content of a single serving of one Tic Tac is slightly less than 0.5 g, and the regulation kicks in at 0.5 g. The footnote on the nutrition label states "less than .5g" for the "0g Sugars" line.However, the label does not state "sugar free": just "less than 2 calories per mint". Diabetics and others should look for a "sugar free" label. This is an example of why "sugar free", "gluten free", "lactose free" and other such labels are important.edited for punctuation typo

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 05:02:02 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 24, 2022, 11:12:39 pmTitanium dioxide is a very common (likely the most common) pigment -- it's what makes white paint white. It's also used as a food coloring.

author: WA1ICI
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 10:17:40 pm
content: I've seen bottles of cheap vodka labeled "Gluten Free". That's probably because they came from the same factories that convert corn into the ethanol that gets added to our gasoline (up to 10%).- John Atwood

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 11:53:04 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on May 25, 2022, 05:02:02 pmI am aware of that. But wouldn't you be surprised to find rock dust as the prime ingredient in your cookies. Maybe in Haiti where the poor are known to eat mud cookies to stave off the hunger pangs of starvation.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 12:20:44 am
content: [to op] In the tech industry, we may call this Specsmanship

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 12:43:27 am
content: After dating somebody with a gluten allergy I can say that labels like this are very useful. Prior to meeting her I was only vaguely aware of what gluten was, it's nice to not have to read a list of ingredients and hope I didn't make an incorrect assumption.My favorite warnings are the ones that say "may contain nuts" ...on a package of nuts.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 01:54:28 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 26, 2022, 12:43:27 amThe nut packagers have had to go to extremes so that they can't be sued by people looking for an easy PayDay. Just like the manufacturers that put California Proposition 65 warnings on EVERYTHING that they make.

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 12:40:52 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 09:51:59 pmYou do know that "gluten-free" is not the same thing as "nominally gluten-free ingredients", right?I wonder why you are so irritated by a company adding two words to a label? Adding dozens or even hundreds of words detailing how every ingredient was grown, processed, shipped, and stored, along with detailed description of the processing plant, how it is cleaned, etc., would really be preferred? Even if it means that the roughly 1% of the population that has celiac disease now needs to spend even more hours in the grocery store reading labels?When our elder daughter was 4 she stopped growing, couldn't gain weight, and had unusual neurological problems. Turns out she had celiac disease. Symptoms can be all over the place because of the malnourishment caused by damaged intestines. No absorption of B vitamins?Expect neurological issues.When she gets contaminated food, it effects her for a number of days. Sometimes for a week or more. It causes gut pain, insomnia, anxiety, and foggy-headedness (try to do math homework when your brain isn't functioning correctly!). It isn't just an upset stomach or something mild like that. Antihistimines don't help - it isn't an allergy. She just needs to wait until her intestines recover. If getting 'glutened' happens too often the malnourishment can cause serious long-term health problems. But if she can stay on a strict gluten-free diet, there are basically no other health problems associated with this disease. In that sense it is the 'easiest' of the autoimmune disorders.We have spent countless hours in grocery stores reading labels, and many labels are ambiguous. Companies that are willing to do the work to determine that their products are gluten free get our business, even if they charge more. And even then we have been burned. When Cheerios went gluten-free our daughter started eating them and got sick - a few days later they announced a recall of their products.Likewise, medications can be the culprit. So we have also spent lots of time waiting for the pharmacist to call the pharmaceutical company to figure out if their product is gluten-free - and sometimes it isn't or the company doesn't know. Then we have to ask the doctor for alternative prescriptions, and the pharmacist calls more companies, etc. This process can literally take hours. And if the pharmaceutical company is in another time-zone or has limited hours of support it can take more than a day. I have called pharmaceutical companies myself on many occasions as well. And yes, she has been sick from both over-the-counter and prescription meds.Are you irritated by pharmaceutical companies labeling medications as well?Should we go back to "the good old days" when we didn't worry about this stuff, products had simple labels and people like my daughter were perpetually ill?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 02:09:48 pm
content: And, of course, some think that what they don't know can't hurt them...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 02:30:56 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 26, 2022, 12:20:44 amah, yeas. you are right. the dreaded first page in a datasheet ...AD9850 . can do 125MHz ... great. power on . ffff barely goes 100 ... wth ? ah , 125MHz @ 5 volt... 110 at 3.3... %$@#$%%%^##$% LIARS !

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 02:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: jasonRF on May 26, 2022, 12:40:52 pmit's not the words. it's the size and the positioning. It's in-your-face. " Crispy and crunch. Gluten free"It just feels ... wrong.. It's not used as a warning for the intended audience. it's used as a marketing slogan ! That's what irritates me.I would be much more in favor of a uniform logo. Top right corner of any food/medicine packaging. A square of 1inch x 1inch depicting an ear of grain with a cross through it. mandated and regulated. easy to find, always in the same spot and targeting the audience without going for the appeal to the fad followers. you can do the same for peanuts and milk.How easy would that be for the affected people ?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 02:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on May 26, 2022, 01:54:28 amah yes. another one of those turds. instead of warning us about it , why don't they remove the crap ?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 02:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 26, 2022, 02:40:16 pmBecause in California everything causes cancer. Including your friends, I guess. California should really ban all of those substances from entering the state and obliterate itself into middle ages.

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 05:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 26, 2022, 02:39:23 pmThat would of course be fantastic. But at least in the US we are nowhere near this kind of regulation, either for food or medicines. These kinds of things don’t easily get through congress, since industry lobbyists throw tons of money at each member tobuy their votesI mean support democracy. In the mean time, I’ll take any “gluten free” label I can get. If it is large and easy to see then I am much more likely to grab that item instead of a competing item. I guess some companies believe that adding the large label will yield a net increase in profit - it’s hard to fault them for that.There are some third-party organizations that do certification of products. So you can find items that have common “certified gluten free” symbols. We buy those whenever we can.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 07:02:25 pm
content: There're lots of BS in the food marketing, but this one isn't.- Not everyone knows which foods contains gluten naturally?- You can never be 100% sure, maybe some additive has gluten, so anyone allergic will appreciate the label.- Of course, crispy and crunch sounds great, but adding gluten-free makes it more inviting, it's a no-brainer for the intolerant, while having to analyze every food looking for gluten must be tiresome!- If some f*cktrads buy gluten-free because it's fancy, nice for them!- Someone had too much free time to rant about gluten-free labeling!

author: AlbertL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 07:35:02 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 23, 2022, 07:30:33 amI believe Pringles are a composite of sawdust and glue.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 07:43:39 pm
content: If you find a restaurant that actually makes potato chips in house, be sure to patronize them!

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2022, 08:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 26, 2022, 02:40:16 pmThe Prop 65 authors acknowledge the failure of their legislation.It was very much intended to reduce harmful elements from being used in consumer products, by the notice being a novelty, it would draw attention to it. The problem is when everything has some level of harm then the liability headaches mean everything suspect gets declared as definitely harmful.It needs to change but the broad idea of labelling products that contain carcinogens/etc. is a good idea.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 06:23:13 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 26, 2022, 02:40:16 pmBecause they can't. Have you looked at the list of substances that Prop 65 covers? It is huge and growing all the time, and it does not take quantity into consideration, trace amount or a majority of the composition makes no difference. On top of that there is no penalty for putting the warning on something that does not contain any of those substances while there is a penalty for failing to place the warning on something that does contain it so the end result is many companies just put the warning on absolutely everything just to cover their bases. The law may have been based on good intent but it is fundamentally flawed and it takes either a special kind of stupid or magical thinking to believe that it actually does something useful. A warning that is on everything tells you nothing, and amuses me to some degree that California seems blissfully unaware that they are the laughing stock of the entire country. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone see that stupid cancer warning and say something like "well, it's a good thing we're not in California! har har"

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 06:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: AlbertL on May 26, 2022, 07:35:02 pmI quite like them actually, if they're made of sawdust then they're remarkably tasty sawdust. I don't eat them (or any kind of snack foods) for my health and I don't eat that stuff every day.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 07:17:39 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on May 26, 2022, 07:43:39 pmi make em at home. peanut oil , russet potato (or "bintje" of you can get it) . Bake for 5 to 6 minutes at 320F. Let them "rest" for 10 minutes. Bake again at 360F until crispy and golden.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 07:24:33 pm
content: You dare cook your own food? It's almost terrorism.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 10:24:26 pm
content: 360F? That's why they're not so crispy in EU, we have no 182.2°C setting!

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 11:40:07 pm
content: The following error or errors occurred while posting this message:The message body was left empty.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 12:55:20 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 27, 2022, 06:23:13 pmThey've been putting a health warning on cigarette packages in the US over 50 years yet there's no indication that they ever deterred anyone from smoking. Splashing warnings on every possible package and/or product like the People's Republic is prone to doing is a complete waste of time! Apparently the safety-at-any-cost folks in the People's Republic never learned the lesson from Aesop's fable about the boy that cried Wolf! too often.But it is rather amazing at how many people are so diligent about searching out traces of gluten (or meat, dairy or animal products, etc etc) even when they're not allergic to them but billions people world wide completely ignore warnings on a product that is widely known to kills tens of millions of people every year!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 01:20:29 am
content: You also see "Gluten Free" on some packs of bacon... It's used purely as a marketing strategy to appear "healthier", even though bacon never contained gluten in the first place.Quote from: Stray Electron on May 28, 2022, 12:55:20 amDoesn't that say more about American people, rather than the system? In Australia, since the introduction of mandatory labeling on cigarette packets (and other similar measures), only about 11.4% of the population smoked in 2021 and it's dropping every year. You're basically considered to be an outcast in today's society if you're a smoker. We also have strict laws which prohibit smoking in most enclosed/indoor areas and you can't smoke in a car with children on-board. There are also state-based laws which prohibit smoking in some outdoor areas as well, for example in my state, you can't smoke within 10 metres of a children's playground or swimming pools or within 4 metres of an entrance to any public building or public transport areas.Some might see it as authoritarian but I disagree, it's about the health of the greater population. If you're silly enough to light up a cigarette and destroy your body, that's on you, but no one else should be subject to it.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 02:24:32 am
content: Motherboard makers pointing to an added CPU power connector, and not mentioning that it's the chips doing all the magic, and 1 8pin connector is enough anyways.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 02:26:42 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 03:06:06 pmIt certainly will do that, by shorting the plates of the tuning capacitor, but it could be useful on the wipers & bearings to ensure that the variable plates are connected to the frame of the cap.Another case of quite a good idea inadvertently sabotaged by dumb marketing.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 04:19:06 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 28, 2022, 01:20:29 amQuantitative, from CDC website for USA: "Current smoking has declined from 20.9% (nearly 21 of every 100 adults) in 2005 to 12.5% (nearly 13 of every 100 adults) in 2020."

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 04:55:32 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on May 27, 2022, 10:24:26 pm?? really. go to belgium and buy a fries maker there. they all can do that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 08:51:00 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 28, 2022, 01:20:29 amExcept you can buy bacon which contains gluten due to additives which may not be apparent on a first glance.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 11:42:13 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 05:08:49 amThis is definitely not marketing bullshittery. My son's stomach is seriously bad and he can't eat gluten and lactose (at least for now). It is a serious pain in the a*e reading through contents of everything you buy in the store. Because some products have additional ingredients you wouldn't believe. I'm so happy for clear, big labels with GLUTEN FREE and LACTOSE FREE. Saves an enormous amount of time and headache (and sick leave, stomach ache and toilet time for the son).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 04:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 28, 2022, 01:20:29 amIs it the warning on the packs that is responsible for the reduction or is it overall education or something else? America is hardly unique in having quite a few smokers and we're nowhere near the top, in fact we're not even in the top 30!https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/smoking-rates-by-countryI strongly suspect it is the laws barring smoking in so many places that is largely responsible for the lower numbers. I doubt a warning label on the pack does anything at all, absolutely everyone already knows cigarettes are bad for you, most people that start smoking are teenagers that think they're invincible.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 07:02:19 pm
content: I don't think labelling on cigarettes has made much of a difference. Rates of smoking have been falling in the UK, US and Australia for 50 years. It's probably a mixture of public health education, tobacco advertising bans, high tax on cigarettes and prohibiting smoking in certain areas.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2022, 08:28:23 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 28, 2022, 07:02:19 pmIn the US, the famous "Surgeon General's Report" on smoking and health was issued in 1964.This was followed promptly by Public Law 89-92, effective Jan 1, 1966, known as The Federal Cigarette Labeling and Advertising Act (15 USC Ch. 36).Yes, smoking rates have been falling for over 50 years due to education and labeling.(Later, I was retrieving my luggage at the baggage carousel at O'Hare and noticed a later Surgeon General, C Everett Koop, picking up his at the next carousel, just as the announcement came on the overhead PA system about no smoking in the terminal.)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 02:01:26 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 28, 2022, 08:51:00 amWhat the hell kind of bacon are you guys eating over there?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 02:39:04 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on May 28, 2022, 08:28:23 pmEducation, yes. Labeling? I highly doubt it. Having been a teenager and known lots of other teenagers I just can't see how the labeling would be effective at all. Smoking rates dropped for years, then they actually rose a bit at some point, followed by further drops as smoking has been banned in more and more places. Personally I don't give a rat's ass if somebody smokes, as long as they don't do it around me. It was great when they banned smoking in bars around here around 15 years ago, I can actually go to bars without choking on a thick cloud of smoke.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 08:29:06 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 30, 2022, 02:01:26 amCheck all bacon in your favorite supermarket, you may find some with additives too.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 08:08:24 pm
content: Actually anything industrial is going to contain various additives, some of which may be surprising for someone not working in the food industry.If you want to be half sure of what you buy, you'll need to buy fresh food only. And even so, it may still contain traces of various chemicals like antibiotics, pesticides, etc.Now specifically for bacon or meat in general, the presence of gluten is probably going to be pretty rare. And AFAIK at least, for people having a problem with gluten, it's not the same kind of allergy that you can have with peanuts for instance, for which only traces of it can trigger a bad allergic reaction. People being sensitive to gluten must ingest a significant amount of it to get any side-effect, so a small amount of it is probably of no consequence whatsoever. Of course there may be exceptions to this, and if there are actual cases of gluten allergies that can trigger reaction even with traces of it, please chime in.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 10:24:22 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 30, 2022, 08:08:24 pmThere are also additives with funny names, yet are perfectly natural and harmless.QuoteThere are such chemicals in the air and water, so it's virtually impossible to avoid them. The overuse of antibiotics is a problem, but the tiny traces in food do no harm. It's the fact they're given to animals and humans, when unnecessary.QuoteSome people only need to ingest a small amount in order for it to be a problem. The problem is it has a cumulative effect. Eating a trace every now and then isn't a problem, but doing so regularly can cause a lot of damage. It's what makes it so difficult to manage.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 11:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 30, 2022, 08:29:06 amThe most common additives found in bacon are nitrites and occasionally some spices or perhaps natural smoke flavouring. None of them contain gluten either.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2022, 06:10:08 am
content: Many people don't appreciate the wizardry that goes into making a shelf stable food product that will look appetizing and be safe for consumption - after weeks, or months or even years on a shelf in a non-airconditioned grocery.Take syneresis - the expulsion of liquid from a gel (syneresis is what makes cheese separate from the whey which is expelled from the milk). Now say you want to make a shelf stable Jelly - Gelatin tends to undergo syneresis after a while (leave a home made Jelly in the fridge and it'll end up in a puddle), or a yogurt from cow's milk which doesn't have enough protein (and hence becomes a jelly like "yogurt-ish" thing - that BTW - usually has whey on top since Syneresis continues).So you'll need to stabilize the gel. Adding more Gelatin will help (as will adding NFMS - Non-Fat-Milk-Solids to cow milk for Yogurt). Or you can add binders (water "glues" - or hydrocolloids) like flour, or carrageenan (think Danaone Yogurt), or Gellan, or Pectin - or usually - since each these will impart an unwanted flavor to the Gel if too much is used - a long list of these - each in a very small undetectable amount.Some of these may have additional binders. Or agents that help them dissolve. Some - like Gellan - will become a snot like suspension in a liquid. It has to be powerfully sprayed into a liquid to disperse well. Try to mix corn starch into hot water and see how difficult it is to dissolve the lumps. Luckily for corn starch - it has no problem with cold water.Or take a Snickers bar in a gas station... Shone on by sunlight during the day, cooled down at night. They melt - but unlike chocolate - keep its shape. In the past we'd know it underwent heating an cooling by the cocoa butter separating as a whitish sheen on the bar. I think they solved that. How - I don't know. My guess is something the stabilizes the chocolate emulsion. Also, when you see CMCs, those are cool - they harden when heated. Most hydrocolloids soften or melt when heated. If the food technologist wants something to remain stable when heated - CMC (a cellulose gum) will harden when heated. Great for that Snickers bar!Many suppliers of these starches (companies like ADM, Cargill, American Starch, Ajinomoto, CP Kelco and many others) can sell the base product (e.g. Carrageenan Iota or Kappa, Acacia or Carob bean gums, Pectin) or sell a proprietary mix - (e.g. Stab 2000 from Louis Francois a manufacturer in France) - If it is proprietary - what does it contain - does it contain gluten?So when I look at a "bag of (simple) chips" - I don't believe them. For example - how is the oil stabilized? What prevents it from going rancid? Nitrogen in the packaging helps. As does the air and UV tight modern (annoying to open) film bags. But still. Try to taste a day old chips - and it had better days... Usually they add anti-oxidants, which absorb the radicals without becoming free radicals themselves. Where are they in the ingredients list? Probably too low a concentration so that they have to be disclosed. In Japan, you'll usually find a tiny bag of oxygen scavenger (usually activated charcoal) that absorbs any spare oxygen that gets in... Like a getter in a vacuum tube. In Europe the regulators don't trust you to not eat the scavenger so it has to be in the food!So being able to mark "Gluten Free" is really tracing back the sources in a food safety compliant way. It is hard work in any case in the modern technology heavy world. Definitely not a "marketing" logo in the sense of "stating the obvious" - but more in declaring the "this bag of chips is designed to suitable for a larger crowd than most other chips" - we are auditing our supply chain to ensure that indeed - no flour is used in making this product. The other chips may or may not have gluten - caveat emptor.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2022, 03:41:00 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on May 31, 2022, 06:10:08 amThe "Gluten Free" marking should mean what you described. As I described in my earlier post a gluten sensitive acquaintance has discovered that this thorough process has not always happened. Hence it can be a different form of absurd marketing bullshittery. Either a complete lie (no tracing at all) or a partial lie (some tracing, but not enough to protect everyone).The gluten sensitive posters who have expressed relief at how much easier it is to shop with this marking should take note of her experience. While those with lower levels of sensitivity may survive these stretches of the truth it has hospitalized the individual in question. I can't speak to whether her issue is an allergy or some extreme form of celiac disease or some third possibility - her condition is merely a proof of existence situation.

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 01:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 30, 2022, 11:39:32 pmSome natural smoke flavoring is made using barley, which is why many folks with celiac avoid products with that flavoring unless it is labeled gluten free. I’m personally not aware of bacons sold in our local grocery store that have gluten, but I haven’t spent the hours required to research them all, either. It takes so much time to research all the different kinds of items, that once we find one that is safe we usually just continue to buy it as long as the label doesn’t change.Edit: I should add that “natural flavor” in general might contain gluten, so again unless the label says gluten free (or the company has a policy regarding labels) then I won’t buy it. Likewise with “caramel color” (the reason Rice Krispies aren’t gluten free), “modified food starch”, etc. And then some products that have gluten free ingredients are manufacured in a way that they may become contaminated. Labels on most products are ambiguous so a celiac cannot know if they are safe.Jason

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 01:42:31 pm
content: Quote from: jasonRF on June 01, 2022, 01:10:41 pmNot to take this too far off topic but I've seen a number of cases of US and Canadian manufacturered products that contain Chinese supplied ingredients where the Chinese changed the ingredient formulation without notifying the manufacturer (and the product label didn't change) and as result both people and animals died. That happened in the case of the toxic pet food about 10? years ago and the toxic infant formula several years ago and I know of at least two other less publicized cases. Also the case where (IIRC) Mattel toys were painted with paint from China and the Chinese paint subcontractor started adding lead to the paint pigment (in clear violation of his contract). The idea that the US and Canada are allowed to use Chinese supplied ingredients in FOOD, horrifies me!Food, food ingredients and toys that get chewed on by animals and by children that are made in the US (and I assume most major countries) is rigorously monitored and tested but that's clearly not the case in China. I should add that China isn't the only country that is a problem, the US frequently has outbreaks of contaminated food that comes in from Mexico and south/central America. There is a big recall of strawberries from Mexico contaminated with E-Coli at the moment.

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 01:47:43 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on June 01, 2022, 01:42:31 pmThe good food companies know this, and when you speak to the right person on the phone they will tell you things like, “we purchase the seasoning mix from another vendor and cannot guarantee it is gluten free”. But you have to call them to learn these things. Hence the reason “gluten free” labels are so wonderful.Edit: likewise, some drug manufacturers keep track by lot number. I have made countless phone calls while at the store to see if a particular package is gluten-free. In some cases it seems like they might have more than one manufacturing facility, each with a different supply chain.Jason

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 06:26:17 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 31, 2022, 03:41:00 pmThe best companies regularly test samples of their products for the presence of gluten. A standard test exists that is apparently sensitive enough. This helps catch any issues with their supply and production. Some companies have implemented this poorly, though (Cheerios created a fiasco that way - which was foreseen by some folks who had toured their facilicies). So again, research can be crucial to staying healthy.Regarding the other comment: When celiacs have long-term exposure to gluten it can lead to extreme health conditions because of malabsorption of essential nutrients. One of the early gluten-free cookbook authors had ended up in a coma before she was diagnosed. Cannot recall which one - just remember reading the forward to her book not long after our daughter was diagnosed.

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2022, 05:39:35 pm
content: Most gluten free products never had gluten in to start with. Gluten intolerance is pretty rare though not according to internet "experts".There could be a very vocal media savvy group within the coeliac community. Somehow I doubt it.I'm selling gluten free solder if you need it.Also available, low fat cat shit in a handy refillable pouch.Health and wellbeing are good. The businesses that sell it to you are racketeers to man or woman. Thats it in a nutshell, pure kapalua coffee.I hate coffee so I have a green tea instead. It contains loads of health giving goodies, just at lower levels than your regular cup.Remember,if it has a slogan it must be a lie.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2022, 05:52:27 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on June 05, 2022, 05:39:35 pmJust because percentage of gluten intolerant people is not that high, it does not mean their life must be miserable. Coeliac disease which is the most serious condition affects about 0.5% of global population. And way more people have an allergy to gluten. As for me plenty enough to have a clear marking which does not take anything from you.