Problems with Gossen Metrahit Energy Meters - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 02:26:00 am
content: Looks like there are few issues with the Gossen Metrahit Energy meter.I upgraded the firmware in mine to the latest 1.04 and LOST THE CALIBRATION VALUES!My meter is now out of whack by a significant margin.Gossen sent me instruction on how to possibly recover the values, but it didn't work. Waiting on a response to that...And Richard.W found a bug in the firmware that causes the dB readout values to read low at higher frequencies. I also confirmed this, and Gossen admitted it was a bug. Waiting a response on that one too.Just a heads-up for those with the Energy meter, or thinking of getting one.Dave.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 03:06:10 am
content: The old adage comes to mind: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"What was the expected improvement when upgrading to 1.04?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 08:15:07 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 05, 2011, 03:06:10 amDon't know. I had a very early unit, and Gossen emailed me the firmware and recommended I upgrade as it fixed "a few issues". Sounded like a good idea to me.BTW, it doesn't usually lose the calibration data after a firmware update, Gossen said it's only a rare occurrence. Maybe I had a combination of firmware that produced the problem...Dave.

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 09:25:52 am
content: I can also confirm the frequency response problem. In fact, Richard W. contacted me too.Mine also has quite early firmware, 1.00. Present firmware on my unit works quite well for me. It seems that there are some issues to iron out in the firmware upgrade process (I think that firmware upgrades are always a delicate thing). Is there a way to make a backup of the calibration factors before actual upgrade or are they "write only"?Regards,Janne

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 10:07:07 am
content: Quote from: jahonen on November 05, 2011, 09:25:52 amGossen said it was supposed to keep some sort of backup in internal memory, and there is serial command to recover it, but that didn't work for me.Don't know about backup via serial etc.Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 11:49:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 05, 2011, 02:26:00 amIs it correct in ACV mode? How did they manage to screw this up? Are they using different calibration data for dB than for V?

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 12:01:55 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 05, 2011, 11:49:23 amYes, ACV mode has much better frequency response than in dB-mode.Regards,Janne

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 03:51:19 pm
content: The most irritating part of Richard W. story with his Metrahit, is that Metrawatt had put him on ice,waiting for two months until they come up with a solution, and I suspect another 30 days of waiting for service and support until to get his unit back.An total of three months.In simple words there is no cure up to date !!The what ever solutions about it, are scheduled for Jan 2012.Richard W. returned the unit back for refund, at the Conrad e-shop, and got his money back.My congrats to Conrad , it is a serious store , and worth's some credit.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 05:20:09 pm
content: Yes, putting somebody on the waiting line for several months is inacceptable. They could at least offer him a replacement or another meter until his one's is repaired. Suggest somebody who really need's it for work. Option1: Buy another one and hope it to be OK Option 2: Take a long holidayIt isn't just the Product, it is also service that get paid when you buy it. When they don't offer any service you have been paying a lot too much. Things can fail, and Quality Supervisors are also just humans. So bad product can make it on the market...regardless if Gossen, Uni-T, Extech, Agilent or Fluke..... it comes to fine differences when these problems have to be solved.....Regarding to conrad: They are very big around here in Germany. I am not sure if it is the number one supplier for electronic components and metrological equipment, but I could really believe if somebody says they are. So they have to do sth. for the customers, because others may be cheaper. They aren't too expensive, too...so that's ok.

author: Richard W.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 07:06:41 pm
content: Quote from: jahonenFirst i thought the wrong readings were a operator-related problem. So i asked Dave and Janne.I also wrote a mail to the service of Metrawatt. Eight days later i got the response and they confirmed the problem.I guess i was the first user who recognized the bug.Code:frequency true displayed1kHz 5V 4,7724V5kHz 5V 4,3748V10kHz 5V 4,3380VI haven't done a whole serieswould have been interesting...Quote from: almACV-Mode is absolutely in spec. I tested it up to several hundred kilohertz sine and rectangular, worked impressively good.Quote from: Kiriakos-GRIn fact they said 2-3 weeks until the new firmware should be ready. Weeks, not monthsBut they asked me not to send it in before december. Plus 1 week for updating it and sending back it would have been 1 month in total.Shipping should have been fast, because Metrawatt Service Center is only 140km away. (In australian scale: neighbourhood)Updating it by myself would have been possible (if i had the USB cable).Quote from: Kiriakos-GRI bought and returned the meter at the local Conrad-Shop in Wernberg. There was absolutely no problem. Really great service

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 07:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: Richard W. on November 05, 2011, 07:06:41 pmHi Richard , your words at the rant box, was that they had informed you to not send the meter before the end of December.The last that I am looking for my self, are to look like of a source of misinformation.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2011, 08:20:37 pm
content: I got a PM from Richard......... the message was: send it to us before December ..Ok my fault about the translation, but now the story changes route .If so, the return back to the store looks unjustified.Two weeks for a solution and even a third week about sorting out the problem does not justifies the return to the shop.Not all people think the same or act the same, but this is my opinion.Other factors possibly influence his opinion, like the extra 250Euros data-cable, or the fact that other brands offers solutions with data-logging for less.My public apologies to Metrawatt ...Thanks.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 01:02:05 am
content: Gossen Metrashit.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 01:23:36 am
content: Quote from: Wartex on November 06, 2011, 01:02:05 amLet's see when they solved that problem and how long it will take. At least Dave is waiting for a solution I guess. It wouldn't get me to desire a Gossen anyway. At least the Metrahit Energy is a bit overpriced for my pocket....not to mention the accesories. For that pricerange I'd consider a superb service....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 02:03:36 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 05, 2011, 08:20:37 pmGossen meters aren't something you buy if you have to even mention the price!Dave.

author: Richard W.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 05:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GRThat all was not the problem. In fact, it would have been a good reason to get the USB cable.And maybe i would have accepted the issues in the dB-range because i don't need this function and there are only some values missing and no physical defect. (I only discovered the issue it by accident.)But as i heard Dave's story, i was very worried.Obviously are there some further issues with the meter, its software and the updates.The Thing is i decided to buy one of the most accurate and most functional meter from Gossen Metrawattbecause i wanted to rely on this meter.I don't want to boast with my equipment, i want to use it.But if i can not rely on this meter... there is no reason why to keep it. I hope my decision is comprehensible.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 06:31:13 pm
content: The last months I am dealing with any problem of my, with allot of humor that is my only shield.After all this: Fluke Fail / UNI-T Fail / Agilent Fail .. the addition of the Gossen Fail,leads me in the conclusion that it is gets harder by the day, to remain as a proud funboy of any brand.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 07:10:00 pm
content: who ever wants to be a fanboy..... that more sounds like an idiotic "I buy because it's that brand"-guy for me...... the name doesn't matter. Quality, functionality and service matters....but I would agree that the "felt" quality has declined over the years. Maybe the quality getting worse because the are developed for shorter life circles or thrown on the market to keep competition going on (like with digital cameras) and let the people consume. Maybe it's higher output rates by the factory which couldn't be tested or serviced like before....maybe they outsource development and haven't tested or integrated it long enough.There are millions of reasons what could be. That is one reason why I usually buy stuff that is on the market for a while. When there is a problem and it is a serious manufacturer it is more likely to have solved that a year after launch than a week after product launchPS: maybe we are also experiencing less quality because of better worldwide communication. Especially in the last few years, communication and ranting in blogs, on amazon and so on rised a lot. Before all that social-network boom you had a problem and reported that to the manufacturer to be fixed and waited.Today you report it to the manufacturer and go to a forum, blog, youtube or where-ever to rant about it and share experiences.(That isn't meant in any negative way Richard....)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 07:19:00 pm
content: I think that if you pay the price asked for a Gossen Metrawatt meter, you really expect the quality and dependability to be exceptional. You don't expect them to mess up. Otherwise, what exactly are you paying for?

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 07:35:32 pm
content: Japp, totally agree. The same with Fluke and so on. That is usually what you pay for, but it doesn't need to be what you getThey still have chances to correct the issues they have with the Metrahit Energy, but I think when these issues make their circles through the blogs and forums, every week they loos a lot of potential customers....But to be fair...... the Fluke289 freezing problem isn't solved, too....or is it right now?! So some more manufacturers need to do their homework, not just Gossen Metrawatt.

author: Richard W.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 07:41:25 pm
content: The meter costs 810€+VAT which is 963,90€ in total (about 1327,96 US$)Quote from: IanBAbsolutely.

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 08:40:19 pm
content: For me, the Metrahit Energy has been a very good user experience, unlike my previous Fluke 89IV, which has quite a few hardware problems, like progressively more flaky rotary switch (I'm trying to send it to Fluke and see if I can get it fixed for free) and high battery consumption. The key feature for me, and the reason why I got Metrahit Energy is the power/energy measurement function. Last time I checked, there is no equivalent Fluke meter available in that respect, other than way more expensive power quality analyzer.I'm currently checking thermostat temperature settings of our refrigerators with a Pt100 RTD and logging function to minimize the energy consumption with few iterations. I have already found one flaky thermostat (too cold) which needs fixing. I think Fluke does not support temperature readings via Pt100/1000. One could always use a thermocouple, but still. RTD wires are easier to extend ad-hoc and one can enter the lead resistance to remove the error related to that. The possibility to use an AC-adaptor is a big bonus if one does much long-period logging to avoid eating truckloads of batteries. And a positive surprise for me, is that I'm still using my first set of batteries (those which delivered with MetraHit Energy), unlike Fluke which has eaten truckload of them in the meantime.I'm personally not so worried about software issues, since they will get eventually fixed, if the manufacturer is respectable, something I expect Gossen to be. I don't blame them if they manage to fail sometimes, I expect them to sort it out with no fuss no muss. For hardware/mechanical faults, things are always more difficult. For me, the acceptable solution would be a command or a tool which could be used to make a reliable backup of all the calibration factors, and if any problem occurs in the upgrade process, then I could restore them from the backup. Of course, delicate operations like firmware upgrade should be initially made as bullet-proof as possible.Regards,Janne

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 09:27:15 pm
content: Quote from: Achilles on November 06, 2011, 07:35:32 pmThe point is that we lost the chance to see if Gossen Metrawatt will stand and keep their promises.Currently the award about fast solving firmware issues stays to Agilent.And this opinion have be formed from what I have see in the EEV in the last two years or so.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2011, 10:32:33 pm
content: Quote from: Richard W. on November 06, 2011, 07:41:25 pm..and if there is a firmware issue you expect to be able to get it fixed quickly without sending it back, like Agilent did by sending out a free USB lead.And if an update hoses the cal data, you should expect a fast & free recal with carriage paid both ways.There will always be bugs & other problems even in the best products - the best measure of any manufacturer is how well they deal with problems, and you expect the more expensive brands to perform better. If they don't, it devalues their name, which is sometimes the only reason that people choose them instead of the cheaper competition.

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2011, 04:19:40 pm
content: A small update about this issue, I also got a firmware upgrade from Gossen for the Metrahit Energy (1.07). First glitch was that the update program refused to work on my Win 7 box, it didn't seem to find the meter, although it entered the "boot" mode as expected. After some head-scratching, I used XP one instead, this time the update was flashed successfully without any problems.It appears that in my case all calibration data was correctly retained and the meter works principally as before. But of course, I can't do a full performance verification, just a quick sanity check. I assume that in Dave's case, the errors were quite significant.And, I also checked if the frequency response problem Richard discovered is fixed in this version. And yes, 1.07 seems to make a difference, no significant droop anymore on the dB function.Regards,Janne

author: Richard W.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2012, 08:51:25 pm
content: @ Dave, how about your Metrahit Energy? Is it still a paperweight? ;-)I havn't seen it in your videos for a long time.

author: thilo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2012, 10:57:41 am
content: Quote from: Richard W. on February 04, 2012, 08:51:25 pmFunny, I was asking me the very same thing just a few minutes ago.

author: elektrokrampftherapie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 04:22:47 pm
content: @ Dave,now I am in doubt - to buy or not to buy the Metrahit Energy.Haven't seen your Gossen device for a long time! Any update/news?

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 04:56:28 pm
content: Now that this topic I had already forgotten has been resurrected, I should report that firmware updates on this thing will ruin the calibration at least on DC voltage ranges, or so I was told by a Gossen tech support (a guy actually called me when I asked them) so whenever a firmware upgrade is done, the meter should be recalibrated. Couldn't notice that any other range would be miscalibrated after the upgrade.In fact the error due to this was quite subtle but still existing (but technically still in spec!). So contrary what I said before, mine was screwed similarly than Dave's Energy (DC ranges off by small but noticeable amount).That is probably why they don't have any freely downloadable firmware on their web pages. I calibrated it back best I could using a calibrated 34401A as a reference and several power supplies but maybe I'll just someday send it to Gossen for a comprehensive calibration anyway.I think if you leave the firmware upgrades (if you ever happen to need one) to Gossen to do them together with a calibration, then you'll be just fine.Regards,Janne

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2012, 02:16:43 am
content: I have not used the Energy meter for a long time, and got nothing much back from Gossen about the whole affair.I managed to recalibrate some of the DC ranges using the MV106, but that's as far as I got.I don't trust it until I put a lot more effort into checking it's calibration on all ranges and functions.Dave.

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 05:45:34 pm
content: because this Topic popped up again, I like to add what I have experienced. I bought that meter about two years ago because AFAIK there is (or at least was) no other (function and spec wise) comparable meter on the market. If there are now please let me know.Besides the price (for the meter itself and especially for the addons) I am very happy with it.Altough I had an issue with AC and DC offset (with open and even shorted leads). Therefore I returned the meter to Gossen-Metrawatt and asked for a loan while they are looking for the problem. And without any problems I received a loan. After they returned my meter (which took very long) the problem was fixed, a new firmware was installed and it was new calibrated (March 2012).My meter since than is working perfect and seems to be still by far more accurate than the specs tell (as frequently checked against my AC and DC Standards).If others here also have this meter I would be interested what firmware versions are out there (mine is Ver. 1.11) and if there are any more known problems, fixes or improvements related. I.E. till now I never used the db function, but it is interesting to know if and where are some potential problems to watch out.greetings form GermanyMarcus

author: davidhaluska
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 08:25:40 am
content: Hi Guys,Thank you for sharing those interesting findings regarding Metrahit Energy. I own one older piece and would like to upgrade FW in it. Could you please advise where I could get FW for this multimeter? Or is somebody who already has this file send it over to me?Thanks,David

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 09:59:13 am
content: I don't think there is a freely available update available, due to that firmware update erases calibration coefficients (at least for DC voltage ranges) so I think that only way to do firmware update properly is to do the calibration (or adjustment if you prefer) at the same time than the firmware update. Or this is what I was told by Gossen support back then.Your best bet is to ask Gossen support, but I think you'll have to send the meter for Gossen to service, unless they know somebody else who can do it also.Regards,Janne