eevBLAB 89 Matt Koval removing negative feedback counter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 05:56:25 am
content: I think this change is going to affect me. If I can't see any reference that a video might be misleading and full of crap and is on top of the list by the good ratings then the platform is going to useless to me. I will never use or join video or shopping site with no negative feedback as a matter of principle as I wouldn't trust it. I might go into such a video site if I am looking for something specific though that I know is going to be good now and again but I haven't noticed any site with no dislikes as of yet.Well if that happens I might be wanting to leave Youtube Premium.It seems I can't even post my own opinion in that subsection:QuoteOpinions and assumptions and sounds to me like he's being very condescendinglike you talking down to a child treating them in a stupid manner (like they are somewhat "thick") trying to get them to do something they don't want to do.I will not get use to have details hidden away from me and I find that insulting.QuoteWhat other platform? Or did he think of that one out of thin air?Well here is my opinion he sounds like a liar to me and maybe more to the story.I have never seen a video platform before with only positive feedback please but correct me if you think I am wrong. I have seen one review site (review.io?) somewhere where I 'd thought it was missing the negative feedback but it was actually in different place.Crossed a few lines out. I am sorry I think I have over reacted there.Update to YouTube's dislike count202,752 views 10/11/21YouTube Creators15k thumbs down and 6.3k thumbs up.Now that must say something.I think one solution they could try is to only allow the viewer to leave any kind of rating after watching a duration or a percent of it and someone mentioned in EEVBLOG IRC "Watcher" to put a cap in place whether that'd be on the viewers or the content.See the disapproval mounting on that video by the 1000's every couple of hours or so:QuoteOnly showing one stat per day to keep the post smaller.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 11:11:30 pm
content: Unsolved Mystery: The USS Pompano Submarine #TeamSeasQuoteSo if he "feels" something he can pretty much do what he likes with Youtube because he thinks he is somewhat self entitled to do so apart of his job to make assumptions for everybody and how they are going to feel afterwards.Removed my comment in response to one he replied to.I had a "feeling" this might happen.Click any rating and no counters on that particular video:His other videos had the counters on the feedback:QuoteShame I had nothing against the man until he pulled this off.His content doesn't appeal me not that's it bad to me but the feedback seemed consistent I can't see any abuse or such on his channel or videos.I am waiting for the counters to be removed and Premium is finished for me and I'll look at paying more attention to the other video sharing platforms.

author: Deodand2014
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 02:06:11 am
content: I've just been on YouTube and the changeover seems to have taken place, this is what you get when companies are run by people who only ask those who agree with them for comment.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 04:54:10 am
content: You know this is so WRONG!The statistics SPEAK for themselves. I still see it and this is now:He is ignoring the statistics that 3/4 who voted are not happy with this change.41,000 viewers can't be wrong on this.Maybe someone could start a campaign on say Change.org to vote out this arrogant know it all "creator" (possibly won't happen anyway) who sounds to me like he is so better than everyone else that he knows the viewers better than they know themselves from everything he has said so far.Out of touch with viewers and I am not sure if he was bribed or "lobbied" into it which that I have been reading.On his profile there I don't see any channels, playlists or much to indicate that he does.https://www.youtube.com/c/MattKoval/channels12/10/21 05:35Thumbs UP: 9.4K DOWN: 42K

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 10:38:49 am
content: Those counters are a bad compromise to begin with, because they are a substitute for a well thought through reply/comment, everything that needs to be reported is outside this scope anyway (minus the people that abuse the report function).Of course i do give a quick thumbs up if i like the content to somehow show that i would like to see more of that, otoh i am sure creators would prefer to read an actual comment that expresses it more than that, but in both cases there is probably nothing to argue.If i however disagreewith the content or just don't like the horrible presentation or a single issue out of all those talked about don't seem to line up with me, i would be required to write a comment to explain what it isto be fairand that's where that dilemma starts, i would need to take effort for something i don't like, criticize someone publicly although they put hours of work into it or it is just a result of my own misunderstanding. The dislike button seems to solve these problems, but just increases confusion.IMHO trying to extrapolate specific information out of those counters is a mistake most of the time. E.g. a video with factual errors but high viewership approval would have a misleading counter as would a video stating truths but with a high disapproval rate because people do not like the facts presented or think the video should not be in their feed. Wouldn't be a problem if there was no such counter and people would actually need to write a comment and someone would read them. (I'm naive)But youtube is an attention economy, not all devices are suitable to do more than a like or dislike (i.e. TV) and any metric was put there for advertisers and creators to have something to argue about or somehow estimate a value from it. Which would work until it is weaponized, faked or misjudged; and it is always just a question of time if something is weaponized, faked or misjudged. Even comments...If youtube decides to remove it i don't see a big harm to the community, the problematic judgment derived from it was probably ill-fated anyway. Because people that correctly understand the meaning of their approval rating will eventually "self-correct" and produce upcoming videos in a way that works for them - or they don't give a sh*t if it works for them too, but hiding the counter will not attract more viewers.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 03:35:21 pm
content: I am for reforming the feedback system without hiding the counters from the customer.10/12/2021 15:32 UP: 10K DOWN: 52KMaybe auto vote from the first comment first (so thumbs up or down on the first comment of a viewer would reflect on the counter) and in a way the content creator can trace and see the first comments with the votes as to why they got a thumbs up or down. If it is abuse or just silliness (non rational explanation) then they could contest to get removed.12/11/21 20:23 UP: 10K DOWN: 57K

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 09:19:30 pm
content: As someone pointed out in the comments, if they actually put the like/dislike rating on the video preview photos, of course this would influence whether people click to watch the video or not.It could be converted to a percent rating, eg 50/50 likes dislikes is 50% rating.Quote from: SparkyFX on November 12, 2021, 10:38:49 amSorry no one is reading hundreds or thousands of comments to get an idea what people think of a video.That's like saying IMDB movie ratings are a bad compromise.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 10:45:03 pm
content: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59264070QuoteThen disable the ratings?QuoteFor me, I wouldn't say it is unhelpful, I myself find it already unhelpful trying to search for stuff even with the Premium membership, I have to adjust the search filter otherwise for one example I see suggestions to paid "virtually owned" movies in which I'd want the physical copy. I think it'll be more like a hindrance.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 11:55:09 pm
content: I didn't wanted to discuss this in the comment section, because it is not safe for your account. Dave you should consider your income sources before talking ill from Youtube. It is not right, but they can make your channel disappear if they think.This is happening because THE MESSAGE is now more important than making profit. Leftist woke SJW have completely overtaken Hollywood and Big tech. I honestly don't care about the politics behind it. I hate everyone who tries to tell me what I have to think. I hated when it was Moscow telling how to think, I hated when it was my own country's politicians telling me, and I hate it when its the internet turning against the people.And they censor, delete, ban everyone who doesn't agree with them. And when they release crap like the Ghostbusters 2016, and get 1 Million dislikes on the trailer video: They know that it is hurting the box office. IMDB removed the review section, I would say it is just a question of time before they delete the ratings.Or youtube taking away the income source of creators because they are using words. Damn word policing, like its 1984.Democracy, free speech, and the like was nice while it lasted. 30 years or so for me.

author: bill_c
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 03:21:08 am
content: I read some of the favorable comments on that video, most were like" I've been waiting so long for something like this", and check that persons profile, no videos and a member for less than a week.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 05:41:31 am
content: Number of likes or dislikes on a video have never ever been to me a decisive factor to watch or not to watch it. Frankly, i do not see what is this fuzz about. Anyone with a brain does not need that external 'help' . Just my opinion. For creators to use it as feedback - i agree it is useful. But YT does not take it from them. So, meh.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 06:02:13 am
content: I see someone has already started a campaign on change.org to restore the negative counters:https://www.change.org/p/google-inc-bring-back-the-youtube-dislike-count/cI'd thought I'd start one up of my own:https://www.change.org/p/youtube-vote-out-matt-koval-from-youtube-creators-group?utm_content

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 03:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 12, 2021, 09:19:30 pmSure, wont happen, but it's the only way to reduce ambiguity.QuoteBecause they are a bad compromise - in a context in which you are catered videos based on the platforms algorithm. Like sending moviegoers that want to see action to a drama movie. Would the rating reflect something significant in that case?

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 04:24:31 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on November 12, 2021, 11:55:09 pmNo, many of these companies run into the problems their approach for user generated content has caused (and enabled their rise as well). Basically it is systemic lack of content moderation or understanding that it means there are paid full time jobs required and when a broader public discovers it, it is a question of time until serious harm is caused here or there. Then the backlash from that causes the radical changes or just the prediction that it will happen at some time.I hope it is obvious why content needs to be moderated. The bad stuff does not go away by ignoring it or believing that it is only happening somewhere else.I don't see where competitors solve this just by being less popular, but trying to gain popularity basically the same way?!The terms of service are binding to everyone and cost you nothing, but when it comes to damages or loss of income it means there is one contract per user which can sue in some form and a certain percentage will sue, giving them the same legal problems that lead to the same decisions those competitors now claim to not take.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 01:13:00 am
content: I wonder if I made mistake somewhere I did I check actual screenshots.QuoteSee attachments:13/11/2120:15Views: 1186869 Comments:80323UP: 12k DOWN: 83k 1:6.66 (NOT SIGNED IN and away from home)13/11/2123:27Views: 1219815 Comments:79899UP: 12k DOWN: 86k 1:7.16So it looks like they are indeed culling the comments now whether that means the actual comments or counter.How can (81138-80276)= 862 + 424 above = 1286 comments and god knows how many more comments they might have removed violate Youtube policy at the same time?That seems a lot.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 11:59:59 pm
content: Well, dislike counts still appear over here. Dunno if they're still gonna remove that, or if there is a delay, or if it depends on region?The YT Creators video announcing that happens to have gotten 110k dislikes and 13k likes.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 05:27:20 am
content: It's not often I get comments on my comments but the comment activity in that video looks quite intensive at the moment.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 07:53:28 am
content: Just as a suggestion for Dave:Stop linking to your Youtube Videos here in the forum. Link to Odysey, or whatever other platform. While i do not know how many hits the forum links actually get, it may bring the alternatives into more focus.

author: FireBird
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:53:03 am
content: Interesting. For me (here in Austria), they’ve switched to „I Don’t like it“ on the 13th.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 03:59:18 pm
content: Got another reply during the stats postsSome extension to reveal the dislikes built for Firefox but shows a way of making it work on Chrome:SEE YOUTUBE DISLIKES AGAIN (WEB EXTENSION, READ DESC)15/11/21 KitirI'll experiment when it disappears but by that time I've already lost faith made plans and they'd possibly find out about the extension soon enough and fix it for themselves.Forgot to leave link to the extension:https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-dislikes-revealer/

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 09:33:01 am
content: Just saw the change and I have sadly just cancelled the Premium subscription and abandoned the profile. Not taking my money let the ads pay for it in my opinion. Not willing back any platform that behaves like that. I don't want be lied to and manipulated by Youtube staff and the statistics they set and that "I'll quickly get use to it". Nope.Last stat: 18/11/21 06:58 Views: 1687774 Comments: 101139 UP: 15k DOWN: 184K Ratio 1:12.26Noticed on their helpful Google blog that they do have helpful and unhelpful with counters on their posts but they also have UPVOTE buttons with counters but no DOWNVOTE button. I wonder how long that has been going for on and whether they have been trying to extend this onto Youtube.I am not willing to mess about trying to see the counters with extension above.I think it is only going to get worse once they start doing things like this.Going to take a look at the other video platforms later.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 05:39:48 pm
content: Dislike counter is now gone here.Quote from: Bud on November 13, 2021, 05:41:31 amIt was used as a feedback for movie trailers like Ghostbusters 2016. And if you disagree with The Message, or just don't like the movie, simply because it is not funny, you are labeled a misogynistic naci. People's opinion was hurting Hollywood's income, so your opinion shall not be visible anymore. Be it, deleting comments, shadow banning your YT channel, or any other method. And some people just cannot handle negative feedback, and we as society have to be so catering for them, otherwise those little snowflakes would crumble.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 05:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on November 18, 2021, 05:39:48 pmI think if they are going to hide the stats from the viewer they should also hide it from the content creator but that sounds to me just as ridiculous.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 08:27:26 pm
content: I'm confused now, I'm sure it was gone but it seems to be back? I just watched EEVblog 1438 - The TOP 5 Jellybean Regulators & References and it's got a dislike count.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 09:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on November 18, 2021, 08:27:26 pmTrying it on maybe due to the protests but when it goes silent they may continue and I won't believe it until they announce it.If they announce and promise to bring it back and never ever to do that again then maybe I'll start using my account and restore the Premium subscription.Oh yes I see....18/11/21 21:19 Views: 1750595 Comments: 108355 UP: 15k DOWN: 198K Ratio 1:13.2 Ratio, that ratio seems to be going up slowlyI still still don't trust that it will stay without a formal acknowledgement from that that they are going to stop this bullsh*t altogether.Ah actually no... if I go into another browser profile, clear the cache and the counter stat is hidden.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 10:24:57 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on November 18, 2021, 08:27:26 pmThey do this. Usually not rolling out an update worldwide. Or A/B testing search results, and seeing user engagement.Maybe they track how many times you press dislike if you are shown the counter.Quote from: MrMobodies on November 18, 2021, 05:54:20 pmYou think the movie director has access to the youtube account to see the dislikes?

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 02:49:55 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on November 18, 2021, 10:24:57 pmI don't know about movie directors.I forgot earlier after year that when Dave was recommending exploring other video platforms I actually copied some browser template profiles with shortcuts to auto sign into them and just found them... ,Bitchute, Odysee and LBRYThe Odysee browser profile shortcut is all there and working. The only thing I'd like to get rid of is the gradient over the player controls and animations over the placeholders.I'll just transfer my trust from that platform over to these platforms.Just found this:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10208323/YouTube-censored-video-streams-independent-legal-experts-commenting-Kyle-Rittenhouse-trial.htmlQuoteSounds to me Youtube are playing games.The funny thing is (if you can call it that) they're doing the same thing with that dislike counter for empty/nonsensical reasons like in that "Update to YouTube's dislike count" video where the truth in the dislike counter is surpressed to the viewer.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 12:17:16 am
content: SEE YOUTUBE DISLIKES AGAIN (WEB EXTENSION, READ DESC)youtube.com/watch?v=9Vh3KF8RpbkCommentsQuoteQuoteQuoteAccording to this article that is exactly what they say they are going to do on December 13th onwards.https://www.gizmochina.com/2021/11/19/youtube-dislikes-count-gets-resurrected-through-a-browser-extension/QuoteJoke: I think it will also be due for a re-brand. Why not call it YOUFOOL. Where the viewers are FOOLED into watching mass disapproved spammy/misleading content made to look positive at first with the counters that they set.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 10:55:25 pm
content: I have found this in the newspaper today:QuoteI don't really remember coming across a YouTube advert like this before in the newspapers.If it is not his own idea I wonder if they are using his image and others like him to try attract new viewers and creators on the platform.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2021, 09:47:48 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 20, 2021, 10:55:25 pmThe photo might be his idea, but the link is generic.For me it goes to a page with a bunch of canadian youtubers, so its region specific.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 05:00:15 am
content: Today's protest in that video:Quote

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 09:27:01 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 24, 2021, 05:00:15 amIs it a protest, or is it a bunch of robots posting?I had to clean up maybe a dozen times after robots in my videos. The worst offender was impersonating my account, leaving a reply to every comment in about two dozen videos, leading to a scam. Took me like 30 minutes to clean that up.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2021, 08:16:36 am
content: Looks like that might be the case with the bots doing the protesting:https://madghosts.com/copypastaarchive/truly-disgusting-that-youtube-would-do-such-a-horrible-thing/QuoteDisappointing as that goes towards their justification of "targeted attacks".