What's up with JLCPCB these days? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TIOUK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 01:24:03 pm
content: I recently uploaded a several board job to JLCPCB at a cost of $900.I have two issues, one stencil was 8mm over PCB area and I could only order it with a stupidly large framed stencil when the acutal SMD area is well within the requirement. I have messaged them before about this asking to make on a smaller stencil and got OK, your risk. This time I'm on the third message and all I get is "we can't do this at this stage", but no indication of the stage they can do this.Second issue is when uploading the job (did this three times as the new interface causes me issues) I accidentially missed changing the FR4 to 1.2mm on one PCB and I'm getting the same messages about "we can't do this". The PCBs are not in production yet as they all have the confirm manufacturing data so I can check for things like not using the paste layer for stencils or checking panelisation. It is getting so hard for what was an easy process.The best I got for the second problem is "you can leave a comment at the confirm stage", but no guarantee they will actually read and understand, likely they will just see the green light and move to production as is.What board factory should I move to, we make both batch quantity and small 10 PCB development runs. We spent $5200 in the last 12 months with JLCPCB.I have used quickturnpcb, S Korea in the past, the boards were super nice, but that was a few years back thing things might have changed.Looking forward to your recommendations.Thanks for your time

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 02:53:27 pm
content: What's wrong with JLCPCB?Nothing, its you that keeps messing up and trying to push the rules.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 09:38:18 pm
content: There is PCBWAY, but I tried them and JLCPCB at the same time and found JLC easier to work with. There's also eurocircuits, but they are pretty expensive for the sorts of jobs which are cheap at JLCPCB/PCBWAY, for really big jobs like your £900 sort though the prices might be more similar.

author: mojalovaa@gmail.com
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 02:58:48 pm
content: In China, until 08.10, there is some kind of national day, so it's a holiday and no one works

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 03:18:32 pm
content: Quote from: TIOUK on October 06, 2023, 01:24:03 pmI've had that - their system doesn't understand that the active area of the stencil may be smaller than the PCB outline.The fix is to do the stencil as a seperate item on the order, so the system "doesn't know" how big the PCB is.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 03:51:44 pm
content: They pissed me off a few times as well. My latest one was, when they asked for an extra 90 USD payment for a 4 USD order, because they think panelizing stuff needs some sort of special care, so it's worth to ask 23 times as much for it

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 04:21:58 pm
content: JLSPCB is NOT for professional jobs. I do probably 4-8 PCBs with them per months, all for personal/homeusage.Recently, I have attempted to have them manufacture one of my companies PCBs, and it was a total mess.The BOM management is a nightmare, if your components are not stocked by LSCS. Several, large billitems (>$200) we would have to ship to them and would lose if we would not use them. That's just one ofthe issues. The other issue we had was that they refused to order parts directly from vendors, even thoughwe had a relationship with the vendor (ASM in that case) and they agreed to ship directly to JLSPCB, andthe list goes on.I believe it will take them some time to be useful for the "big money" projects. I am glad to see their new"HD PCB" offering. Quality and pricing will determine if they can be competitive in the future or not.For now, I am taking my company business to the "Big Boys" !Cheers,rudi

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 04:24:41 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 07, 2023, 03:51:44 pmMy experience has been that they don't know what they are talking about or asking of you.The entire company sales/management force seems to be made up of 20 yo tik-tok users ...They can be very unreasonable, and they don't give a shit ... (typical Asian culture).rudi

author: BFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 05:32:28 pm
content: JLCPCb is going to the hell I think , first month ago they refused to make PCB which they did in the past and now I'm not able to pay for another simple PCB by PayPal.I think they will bankrupt soon.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 05:46:16 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on October 07, 2023, 04:24:41 pmMy experience is the diametric opposite - any questions they ever had has been relevant and to the point. And they were very quick to respond whenever I had questions.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 06:11:19 pm
content: I've done well over 100 orders with JLCPCB.Minimal issues -the only recurring one is getting them to put tooling holes in the right place on the stencils - I ask for them 19mm from the edge, which only gets done about half the time. Once they just moved just the holes and not the rest of the aperturesOnly done one assembly order so far and that was fine.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 06:55:33 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 07, 2023, 03:18:32 pmThe issue is that even if SMT assembly area is smaller than max size, more than half of framed framed stencil (outer) area cannot lie on top of PCB because of higher thickness than in area with bare metal in the middle. So I really doubt limitation has anything to do with SMT assembly area.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 07:37:59 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on October 07, 2023, 04:21:58 pmJLCPCB can do cheap assembly because they don't have to hassle with people sending special parts, ordering from different vendors, etc. etc.f you expect that kind of service, go to the "big boys" and pay orders of magnitude more for it

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 05:42:55 am
content: I have a number of products I push through JLC. The key thing to realize is you need to stay within their boundaries - especially, use their library or LCSC.I've had a number of issues. They keep tweaking their software and regularly breaking what worked last month. Other than one time (out of about 250 orders) where they failed to catch an out of stock part and did a run without the part, they have been pretty solid building what I want. They were kind of weaselly about fixing the problem - a customer focused manufacturer would have fallen all over themselves to make good - but we came to an accommodation. I've spent >$5K USD on them in the last 12 months so not a tiny customer, would like to have been treated a little better than "can't you just solder it on?" as a first proposed solution. Also, their part library data base is a complete nightmare. They forced a great 3rd party search engine to close and did nothing to improve their pathetic solution. And their recent separating out basic parts from the rest of the database only made it a worse experience.If there was something better that cost the same or maybe even a little more, I'd be there. But there isn't so I'm sticking with them, for now.

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 11:14:36 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on October 07, 2023, 04:21:58 pmMyself and several other businesses I know doing tens of thousands of boards per year with JLC would disagree with.The only issues we've had of late have been jagged board outline routing but that seems to have been resolved now.Edit:I now realise he was talking about JLC's assembly services and is probably right about that.

author: JLCPCB Official
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 06:28:04 am
content: Quote from: TIOUK on October 06, 2023, 01:24:03 pmWe deeply apologize for the confusion and inconvenience caused. Please accept our sincere apologies.Regarding the stencil sizes, we currently provide five commonly used options, with the smallest size being 380mm*280mm (valid area 290mm*190mm). If none of these sizes meet your requirements, we also offer customization services. When selecting a stencil, please ensure that your PCB dimensions fall within the valid area range.We deeply regret the lack of clarity in our response from our customer service. Our founder, who has an engineering background, deeply understands the challenges that can arise during the ordering process. Your post has brought this issue to our attention, we will take immediate steps to enhance the training and skills of our customer service team. We will continuously improve the user experience and strive to provide satisfactory solutions for each customer.Thank you for bringing these issues to our attention, and please do not hesitate to reach out if you have any further questions or require additional assistance.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 10:07:56 am
content: Quote from: JLCPCB Official on October 09, 2023, 06:28:04 amthe problem is that the PCB size is usually larger than the valid area due to panel borders etc., but your system still rejects based on the PCB dimension, not the dimension of the area actually used on the stencil.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 12:00:12 pm
content: How do you fit the board and stencil in the printer of it's smaller than the pcb? I always use 29" stencils as my machine is a bit annoying with smaller ones and the cost is pretty similar. Maybe vector guard would work for you?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 12:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 09, 2023, 10:07:56 amAgain, there is a limit of how large PCB you can put under the framed stencil, it's not all flat surface underneath. I took a few 400x300 stencils I have and exposed steel area underneath is about 220-260 x 140-160 mm which is sometimes less than 240 x 140mm JLCPCB limits. So they would need to pay attention even when going close to those limits.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 12:45:24 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on October 07, 2023, 07:37:59 pmI totally agree with you. They are great for simple designs.It does appear as JLCPCB is trying to enter the "big boy" market with their HDI PCBs. IMHO, ifthey want to do that, they have to become more flexible, and more professional.Best Regards,rudi

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 03:54:36 pm
content: Quote from: loki42 on October 09, 2023, 12:00:12 pmIt's not the stencil size that's the issue, it's the useable area they allow you to cut. e.g. JLC's 380x280mm size has a 290x190mm useable area - I could easily have a PCB larger than that with panel borders etc. but with pads within in less than a 290x190mm area

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 04:01:48 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 09, 2023, 03:54:36 pmAnd then fail to apply solder paste because of the gap.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 04:11:29 pm
content: If PCB extends to the area covered by tape, you won't be able to apply solder paste properly.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 05:34:35 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 12:45:24 pmThey don't currently offer HDI PCBs, nor even blind/buried vias. Which is shame.Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 12:45:24 pmThey are fine already. If you pay $10K for PCBs, then the fab would better accomodate, but if you pay $100 for the same PCBs, then it's on you to ensure fit into their workflow. If you don't want to change your ways, go to "big boys" which will lick your ass all day long, but you will pay dearly for that.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on October 09, 2023, 05:34:35 pmActually they do. See attached screenshot. Looks like they renamed it now to Advanced PCB,and they still call it "High Precision PCB" - up to 20 layers. I wonder if they can provide asample stack-up for that, lol.Quote from: asmi on October 09, 2023, 05:34:35 pmSounds like you are rumbling here. What are you trying to say ? Who pays $10K for what PCB ?"They are fine already" ? No they are not, not for complex PCBs that use any high speedsignaling. They are several generations away from that.The professional fabs are not necessarily much more expensive than JLCPCB. Specially if youconsider the services they offer. We have used several companies in China, all have been professionaland their pricing is usually quite reasonable. Pricing has been consistent for PCB materials andassembly cost. Variations are mostly small.JLCPCB is still growing. They decided to go after the low volume, low requirements, but high demandhobby/semi-professional market first. They have grown since, and many commercial designs that fit into their capabilities and volume are being done - which is great !But, playing with the big boys will be a real challenge for JLCPCB. I look forward to seeing how theywill grow, and will continue supporting them through my business any way I can !Regards,rudi

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 06:24:50 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 09, 2023, 04:11:29 pmWhy would I cover a stencil with tape?I use a stencil printer which grips and tensions an unframed stencil on two edges. I can print any PCB that physically fits between these edges.I could have a 380x280mm stencil, a 300x200mm PCB with a 250x150 printed area, well within thie 290x190mm "valid area" but JLC would reject that as they mistakenly constrain the valid area to the PCB outline.Fortunately as mentioned earlier, this limit can be circumvented that by putting the stencil as a seperate order with just the paste layer so their system doesn't know the physical size of the PCB

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 06:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pmYou might want to read up on what HDI means, that's not what's on your screenshot. Professionals must know what HDI is.Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pmThey do, and there is nothing to be laughed about.Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pmYou are the one rambling about some mythical "big boys" here.Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pm"Professionals" are. You know, those who don't even know what HDI means, but feel like they can teach everyone "how things are done by BIG BOYZ"Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pmYes they are. Meet a 10 layer PCB made by JLCPCB (in attachment). It's got it all, and some more - controlled impedance, small traces/spacings, 64bit DDR3 SODIMM interface, multi-gigabit links, via in a pad (note lack of dogbones in BGA area, as well as decoupling caps right on top of vias under BGA). How much would your "big boyz" charge for that, by the way?Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pmJLCPCB IS a professional fab, not for "professionals", but for real professionals.Quote from: luudee on October 09, 2023, 06:05:37 pmWho are those mythical big boyz you keep rambling about?

author: JLCPCB Official
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 07:41:13 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 09, 2023, 10:07:56 amWe deeply appreciate the significance of selecting the correct stencil size. However, given the diverse and intricate requirements of our users, the current most practical approach is to determine the stencil size based on the dimensions of the PCB. We acknowledge the limitations of this approach and, to mitigate them, we encourage customers to include comments in their orders. By doing so, we will carefully review the comments and accommodate them if feasible. (Please feel free to add comments to your next order.)We greatly value the questions raised and are actively developing comprehensive guidelines for stencil ordering. Additionally, we are continuously improving our processes to enhance our ability to offer customers the most appropriate stencil sizes. We sincerely appreciate your valuable feedback and thank you once again for your contribution.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 02:32:08 pm
content: @JLCPCB OfficialI often choose "Panel by JLCPCB" for prototypes and small production runs, but when I select to have edge rails "On 2 Sides" it doesn't always select the optimal sides for my PnP setup.Is it possible to have a way to select between which sides are used for the "On 2 Sides" edge rails please?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 08:27:55 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on October 11, 2023, 02:32:08 pmMuch safer to panelise it yourself so you know exactly what you will get

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 09:56:19 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on October 11, 2023, 02:32:08 pmI believe they automatically process so that the rails are added to the longest sides of the panel, which is what you want to play nicely with SMT line conveyors. These days though we do as Mike suggests and panelise ourselves as it removes opportunities for confusion (or in one specific case forgetting to add the edge rails).

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 09:11:59 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 11, 2023, 08:27:55 pmYeah, of course. After a frustrating design session I can certainly be a bitlazyimpatient.Quote from: Mangozac on October 11, 2023, 09:56:19 pmCorrect. In the case yesterday it was a 100x52mm PCB that I wanted panellised 1 wide x 2 high with 2x5mm edge rails placed top and bottom. The JLC order page gives me a 110x104 panel, so rails placed on the left and right. The dimensions in this case are close and small enough that the position of the rails would make little difference to SMT processing, especially as I don't use conveyors on any of my PnPs. I also already have the PnP files generated for a prior revision and they just need minor tweaks plus some extra through hole parts. I just need a small batch with changes for EMC compliance testing, and production will be handled by a CM.

author: JLCPCB Official
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 10:34:03 am
content: Quote from: Kean on October 11, 2023, 02:32:08 pmIn order to avoid any bouncing during component placement, we recommended positioning the edge rails along the longer sides of the PCB.The edge rails should have a width of at least 5mm. Please check this for reference：https://jlcpcb.com/help/article/48-How-to-add-edge-rails/fiducials-for-PCB-assembly-order.For small-size PCB designs where you prefer to have the edge rails positioned along the shorter sides, kindly include your request in the order comments. We will check and proceed accordingly to fulfill your requirements.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 10:07:47 am
content: While jlcpcb are here... are you planning to offer blind & buried vias?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 10:53:50 am
content: Quote from: loki42 on October 13, 2023, 10:07:47 amI wish they would. But I'm afraid they can't find a way to make it more-or-less affordable, and without that, they won't have volume to get an ROI

author: huababua
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 12:36:55 pm
content: Cant really recommend JLCPCB to anyone.Ordered ~10 different pcbs in different orders. In 2 pcbs there was manual rework done by JLCPCB. Yes- I was on the manufacturing limits but well inside their capabilities.What really f****s me up is their way of dealing with the issue. I reached out to the support and it went back and forward 10 times - me, investing lots of time sending pictures etc.On the end they offered me a refund if I sent the pcbs back to China at my own cost (I am living in Europe).I mean errors can happen. But arguing for 20 bucks in a 140 $ order really is not nice.I switched over to Aisler for the simple boards and PCBway for the more complex boards and pay the extra.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 09:01:07 pm
content: Quote from: huababua on October 13, 2023, 12:36:55 pmManual rework on the raw PCB? Need a photo to see what you are talking about.

author: huababua
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 12:42:31 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 13, 2023, 09:01:07 pmThis was comming from JLC like this…

author: V_King
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2023, 02:27:03 pm
content: pre covid JLCPCB was great. Now it is a big mess! Had PCBA service with soldering issues - customer services just have a whole catalogue of silly questions to make you go away and avoid rectifying issues.Their global sourcing always have issues too - you order to listed attrition, but when they receive components attrition requirements suddenly change and you have to order parts AGAIN!Some parts went missing in their global sourcing probram, again "definitely not their issue", I must have ordered wrong quantity!lots and lots of excuses at the moment.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 12:41:35 am
content: Quote from: huababua on October 14, 2023, 12:42:31 pmWas not expecting that, interesting.Not an alignment issue, its like they knew they processed it wrong and someone covered up the pads.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 12:58:38 am
content: Quote from: huababua on October 14, 2023, 12:42:31 pmhow did the gerbers look?

author: huababua
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2023, 07:41:15 am
content: I don’t have access to post a picture of the Gerbers at the moment. But same files were produced by Aisler without any issues.Also - if the Gerbers were wrong they would have blamed me from the beginning and not started scratching anything.Again, I leave my fingers of JLCpcb even if I pay 30 percent premium on others.

author: sam512bb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2023, 11:33:12 pm
content: I also had recent issues with JLCPCB, whereas, prior orders had zero. For one PCB, they held up the manfuacturing because of problem with the PCB's slot... well there were no slots on the PCB. It took 5 days before I realized that someone thought that a silkscreen filled rectangle was a PCB slot. I double checked my gerbers in case something went awry and all was fine. I sent off a detailed email and asked if my gerbers somehow became corrupted. JLCPCB said no, the files were fine and informed the team making my PCBs... and the PCBs were fabbed fine. Still... I was a bit anxious as to what else the PCB team could misinterpret, but also a bit annoyed that it took almost a week to get remedied and held up production on a number of other PCBs I had also ordered.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 05:41:03 pm
content: had simple 2 layer board made, other then my own mistakes it was fine and affordable compared to the 8 month wait that professional domestic services had at 2000% price increase with 1/10th board size ................................. like OMG at least send me a bottle of spirits and some tickets for a show for that wonderful service.............

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2024, 04:43:34 am
content: I would recommend JLCpcb highlyExcellent value for money .I regularly do 6 layer PCBs on 1.2mm FR4 with 0.2mm hole, 0.125 track space.. no problem. be sure to teardrop your designs.I would recommend the stencil as a separate order. be sure in the TEXT BOX to provide the info you want like thickness and no aperture changes....

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2024, 07:27:12 am
content: I ordered 5 2 layer boards from JLCPCB with square cutouts and an angular protrusion and the only mistake was one of my own. On the silkscreen I marked the ground pin of a connector as plusFor the rest it is perfectly fine. More pictures of the end result can be seen here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/modernizing-old-fischertechnik-27mc-remote-control/

author: Puteketeke
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 09:36:27 pm
content: @pcprogrammer,The order number seems to be on copper layer (I usually have it on silkscreen).Is it the photo ? If on copper and JLC accepts that, good to know

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 07:16:51 am
content: Quote from: Puteketeke on January 30, 2024, 09:36:27 pmIt is on the silkscreen.For as far as I know, you can add your own identification on the board and if you like on the copper as long as it is not to small. To be sure just ask them.