Learning to Weld - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 02:20:15 am
content: Mentioned to Mrs EEVblog the other day that I'd like to learn to weld. Surprisingly, she said she's always wanted to learn as well.So MIG or TIG?Which one would you pick to learn with?Bunnings:https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?q=welder&sort=BoostOrder&page=1Sydney Tools:https://sydneytools.com.au/search?p=1&q=welderSomeone in Twitter mentioned MIG is easier, like "hot glue for welding" as xjet put it. TIG can do aluminimum and stainless steel and generally do more stuff.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 03:11:21 am
content: With MIG welder an inexperienced weldor can produce very pretty welds that come apart like nothing. Because the heat affected zone doesn't penetrate deep enough into the parent metal.TIG is the thinking man's tool. Longer to learn and more knobs to twist equals more fun and a greater variety of materials you can handle. Aluminum needs AC to clean surface oxide layer.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 03:27:33 am
content: Dural Men's shed. Come and hang out. No need to buy anything until you know what you want. The fact that you want to buy from Bunnings frightens the life out of me.In your case you should hunt around for a similar shed group perhaps a bit less churchy.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 05:53:44 am
content: I learned with oxy-acetylene, so many years later when I moved to electric arc, TIG came very naturally. As ChickenHead said, some people start with MIG and produce pretty, but very poor welds. It is more difficult to do that with TIG.For structural welding, MIG (or stick) is probably the way to go. For precision welding, I use TIG. TIG can also be used for any weldable metal or purpose, including structural. Most, maybe all TIG welders can be used for stick welding too.The one area where MIG shines (and why I bought my Linde MIG years ago) is when doing long welds on sheet steel.* Distortion is considerably less. My MIG welder is circa 1983. Modern versions have some nice features, but I have only seen demonstrations and have no experience with them.For welding outdoors with wind, you may want to consider either stick or flux-core "MIG." (With flux-core, an inert gas is not needed.)*Stick welding with a TIG welder for power is also very good for sheet steel.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 06:08:29 am
content: Never wear your favourite clothes to the party. Those that know, know.You only truly can say you know how to weld after you've burnt your balls. Bonus points for when it happens welding upside down above your head.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 06:19:55 am
content: Come to think of it, I know a bloke with plenty of time on his hands who can teach you..

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 06:26:57 am
content: I found this:https://classbento.com.au/welding-workshop-for-beginners-sydney3 hours. Worth the money, IMO.

author: redkitedesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 11:36:58 am
content: A welder from Bunnings? Might as well buy your soldering iron from spotlight (https://www.spotlightstores.com/art-craft/other-crafts)Seriously, sydneytools or totaltools is much better, much more choice and knowledge.Of course, the most important question is what you want to weld? Structural steel for the fence and barbie, or oldtimers? Nuclear reactors are whole different line of welding too. Check with people in those lines what they use.Me? I'm just using a cheap gasless MIG (flux-core MIG) from cash converters. Works like a charm for mild steel. Useless for anything else. Definitely soldering-iron form Spotlight category :-)

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 12:35:04 pm
content: I’m not a great welder, but I do weld from time to time, sometimes there is no substitute. Don’t do what I did:- Many many years ago when entry level welders were not as cheap as they are now I purchased the cheapest 120V wire feed welder just to get a feel for it. Not enough power, better than no welder but not much better.- Upgraded to a low cost 240V Mig welder, enough power to weld more than 1/8” however the spooling mechanism was cheap a$$ . Used it for too long.- take a good look at your surroundings before you snap down the visor. One time I was welding away and the smell of the welding smoke took on a more fireplace like smell. I stopped welding to discover the too close trash bin was on fire from a spark.+ finally decided I had had enough and picked up a better quality used Hobart 240V MIG. What a difference, no more spool issues, really easy to weld with in comparison to the previous welders, it just starts the arc better and makes much nicer beads.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 01:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 05, 2022, 02:20:15 amyou can buy stainless steel and aluminium wire reel for mig. what you want to buy depends on what you want to do or expect. mig is good for beginner because wire is feed out automatically, you only point and shoot. tig you have to feed with your other hand and usually for advance welder who want to have more control on the welding feed or when space is not suitable for mig. keep that in mind the difference, auto feed vs manual hand feed, which one you expect?btw i upgraded to mid-cheap $250 5-in-1 weld machine 1 year ago that can do all mma,mig and tig (tig torch need to buy separately, not expensive), after being a long time user of big heavy iron mma welder. this inverter/triac based machine is much breezer and smoother to use, much light weight and doesnt burn my power socket and cable. i still prefer mma coz rods are cheap and thats what i got used to for years. few times i used the mig on tight space that mma cant reach, and my tig torch is still brand new i havent tried.be careful, people here can get easily frantic with mains safety when doing electronics, i tell you welding hazard is several magnitude higher, severe burns and cuts, toasted skin due to high UV and especially sand in the eyes... must come with it are full face protection mask, proper suit and glove, safety boot etc and especially welding eye glass, if you dont want the sand get into your eyes during the night.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 01:30:14 pm
content: I learned how to weld using MIG as I was told that it was the easiest welding system to master. I then visited my engineering section at work and asked a friend if he could give me some tips on welding. He did better than that, he told me how the weld process works, recommended an easily digested book on the topic and then set me up at lunch times with the huge MIG welder that they had and a pile of flat steel to practice welding on. The book informed me of correct technique, the need for bevelling edges, but joint gaps etc. after a week of practice, 1 hour per day, I was competent enough to create some nice welds with correct penetration. You had to learn to listen to the sound of the weld for correct welder settings. It is more complex then soldering in that respect. After a month of lunch time practice I bought an SIP hobby MIG welder that is intended for use on car restorations etc. it uses small bottles of CO2 or CO2/Argon mix so is a bit expensive on the gas front. Full size gas bottles may also be used with the appropriate adapters and regulator. I have done a lot of MIG welding since learning the process and the knowledge has served me well at home and at work. I have no fear of fabricating load bearing steel structures on cars etc as I know how to spot a less than great weld.A fellow manager at work asked me round to his house to see the HF beam antenna tower he was assembling. It was Zinc plated steel lattice with a top plate onto which he was welding the antennas mounting brackets and swivel joint. I took one look at the pigeon poo welds and decided he needed some guidance on the matter. He had bought a MIG welder and taught himself to weld over a couple of days playing with the unit. He was using Gas cutter/brazing green goggles and his approach was to ‘stab’ the MIG wire at the metal to be welded and create what he thought were good spot weldsIt was a disaster. I diplomatically advised that the “spot welds” needed to be replaced with full length welds for strength. He asked if I would do the welding for him as he had yet to progress beyond his “spot welds”. I happily helped as it gave me the opportunity to cut away the pigeon poo welds and clean off the Zinc along the weld line. Once prepared, I welded the brackets to the top plate with a good quality continuous weld on both inner and outer surfaces. This bracket was taking the wind loading of a 3 element HF beam antenna so it had to be strong. The welds were very tidy so needed no grinding in this particular case. A good coating of Cold Galvanizing and the job was done. That bracket later withstood the gale force winds that actually brought the whole mast down with the antenna crumpling upon impact with the ground. I mention this story because it is all too easy to use a MIG welder with inadequate experience and create severely flawed welds. I have seen ugly, poor quality, welds made to look nice and shiny with an angle grinder but they remain poor welds beneath. Also welding through some metal platings like Zinc must be done with great care due to the poisonous gasses produced.It is important to study the process of welding/MIG welding and helps to find someone experienced in such to improve technique. Then it is just practice, practice and more practice. Buy a well known branded MIG welder as cheap no name welders can have truly awful wire feed systems and performance. With a junk MIG welder it is hard to learn as the welds can be poor through no fault of your technique. SIP are respected in the UK but there are other reputable brands.Regarding TIG welding….. to me that would be a next step after mastering the easier MIG process. With TIG you are almost using a Gas welder technique involving creating high temperatures with the Plasma and then feeding the filler rod into the weld pool. I think that may be a more challenging welding technique for the novice and the MIG might be the better starting point. MIG welders are reasonably priced tooFor info, I use an SIP MIGMATE Turbo 130 and that has been perfect for my hobby needs. It must be 20+ years old now but has never given me any problems.Hope this helpsFraser

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 01:31:25 pm
content: Learn TIG. MIG is big-boy hot glue, it's not real welding (ducks)I'm probably biased though, i've only ever used TIG.MIG is good for learning fast so you can start building something. TIG is good for learning the art of welding.My tips for learning to TIG weld if you plan to buy the gear yourself1) Argon tank sizes can be deceptive due to the percentage of the width that is just solid metal. Small tanks hold jack shit amount of gas, so get something decent. I have an E size tank.2) If you want to do lots of aluminum welding try to get a TIG welder that can do frequency adjustable AC (50-300hz etc). Most of the cheap welders only do AC mode at fixed 50hz. You can still weld alu at 50hz it's just nicer at 200hz. So it's not the end of the world to be limited to AC 50hz. (Don't confuse AC pulse frequncy with AC frequency adjust. Some cheaper china welders can have confusing knobs that try to trick you into thinking they have AC freq adjust when they don't.)3) A foot pedal is highly recommended rather than just an on/off button on the touch. You want analog current control while you weld so you can ramp it down near the end so you don't blow a chunk out the workpiece. (Especially with alu since the ends of the workpiece have less heatsinking so the temp shoots up for the same amps.)4) Having a large high pressure gas cylinder in your home garage has some risks, make sure it's well secured to a welding cart so it can never fall over.5) Depending on type, the tungsten electrodes can contain a tiny amount of thorium so are mildly radioactive. They're quite safe to use and handle but when you sharpen them to a point don't breath the dust, or ideally don't make any dust!6) Get a TIG machine with MMA/Stick welding option. Stick welding is very useful when you don't care and just want to weld something together quickly and cheaply

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 01:29:08 am
content: Why not start with stick welding? I managed to make a flying start with that. But I have to say I've heard my uncle weld for many, many hours so I know what the right weld settings are supposed to sound like (as Fraser already suggested) and could adjust the current properly. Either way it seems to me the trick is to make the puddle with molten metal equal in size at both sides (make the arc jump over from one side to the other repeatedly) and add material.I never tried MIG welding but I think the process is similar to stick welding but getting the right speed for the wire seems something that might need tweaking to me; adding extra complexity compared to a stick which you can fully control. But I might be totally wrong. From what I've seen on Youtube TIG, welding needs the material to be absolutely 100% clean otherwise the pin deforms / gets polluted.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 02:32:46 am
content: I also believe that starting with oxy-acetylene welding of mild steel is the way to develop the basic ideas associated with welding, mainly how to control the puddle of molten metal.The bottom line of most types of welding is to control the puddle. With oxy-acetylene it is easier to see what you are doing without the arc flash problems of multitude of open arc welds. After you are experienced in control of the puddle with a torch and the hand eye coordination needed, TIG welding is a step to a hotter heat source and MIG has the advantage of feeding new material into the puddle but has a lot of other parameters to consider.In any case, mild steel is the cheapest and easiest to use to practice. If you want to weld aluminum, TIG is the easiest and will produce the best results unless you are doing large scale production welds. However you choose to start, a good respirator and proper eye protection are mandatory.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 04:36:59 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 06, 2022, 01:29:08 ami started learning with stick, i managed to get something to weld in a matter of seconds or minutes, very easy. but when i went to my intern, the company used mig, when i tried to use it i got pissed off because welding always got disconnected, fast forward to today i know my mistake, i expected mig to work like a stick, all i have to do with mig is point and shoot and wait the wire/rod feed out and touch the metal. so for me, mig and stick are quite different in term how you control (hold) the feed line (stick or the wire).. and then mig and tig need gas flowing on the nozzle, otherwise you'll get damaged torch. i dont have argon gas etc i only used compressed air connected to where the gas should be, so air flowing through the nozzle will keep the arc away from nozzle. ymmv.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 05:23:08 am
content: It's pretty common for the cheaper (like sub $1500) TIG machines to include a MMA switch for stick welding.So going TIG usually also gets you stick welding too.Less common to get a stick/MMA option on a MIG machine because it means adding an extra terminal and more complicated internal high current wiring.Stick welding absolutely still has it's place.You don't need gas and the rods are pretty cheap.So if you just want to weld something up and don't really care much. A machine that can do stick is very useful to have.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 05:34:28 am
content: Another advantage with TIG is your work gloves don't have to be as heavy duty as you need with MIG/MMA because TIG is more focused and you're not throwing sparks all over the place. So you can get away with light duty welding gloves. (obviously dependent on what exactly you're welding)I love Ironclad heatworx.Since they're lighter duty gloves you have much more dexterity compared to a thick pair of leather welding gloves.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 05:44:10 am
content: Both. Different processes for different jobs.I say get a multi-process machine. Make sure it does AC/DC TIG.https://www.everlastgenerators.com/product/mig/lightning-mts-225-tig-packageI'm not a professional fabricator. Just a dude with a garage. I run one of these, and have been really happy with it. I go back and forth between MIG and TIG often. Super easy. Much more affordable than a Miller, and has a decent warranty.Note: Don't get a DC only TIG, or a Fluxcore only MIG. You will outgrow both of those way too quickly.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 10:52:29 am
content: First work out what materials you are probably to weld as there is no one answer to what is best suited.Then work out how deep you need to go into this rabbit hole and believe me it is a wide and varied profession.With some guidance at crucial points you can mainly self learn as I have over 50+ years after first going 50% with pop for a oxy acetylene set when I was 13 and learning the basics in engineering classes at school.Consumable gases are your biggest outlay as bottle ownership or rental is a significant ongoing cost however a gas set is the most versatile in the small engineering shop. Cutting, heating, fusion welding, brazing, soldering, metal powder overlays and even flame hardening make an oxy set the leader for general use. With skill all metals can be welded with an oxy set. Best suited for under 5mm fusion welds. Gas bottle hire/ownership ongoing costs.Arc is probably the next easiest to learn and least outlay but is mostly limited to 2mm+ thick steel although thinner can be successfully welded once the skill develops to manage molten weld pools and not have them too large where they drop onto the floor. Leaning to manage the arc is a skill on its own as is selecting the right welding rod for any application or steel type. Traditional arc is mostly limited to ferrous metals of most any thickness.Mig is the next cheapest investment and successfully manages thin panel steels right through to heavy fabrication, is fast to apply and when using Mig gases there is no welding slag to remove which can be a significant advantage in post weld cleanup. However some of the nicest Mig welds I've seen were done with flux cored wire and CO2as a shielding gas. For the home shop 0.6mm wire is adequate for most jobs but for heavier work 0.8mm wire might be preferred.Mig's great disadvantage is susceptibility to wind that blows the shielding gas away making it troublesome to use outdoors in other than the calmest conditions. Mig shielding gas required. (Argon/CO2mix)Tig is the jack of all trades but not suitable for heavy work and also susceptible to wind. Tig can weld a wide range of metals however the power unit must have the specialist features in order to do so and these require a deeper investment for that versatility. The best machines and operators can weld the thinnest of metals with Tig such is the control you can get with it. An auxiliary treadle control is highly recommended. Argon shielding gas is required.Of the 4 types mentioned I have used all but Tig the least as its weaknesses are a liability to my needs when I already have Mig, arc and oxy. Actually I do have a Tig torch that fits a little 140A DC caddy welder I rarely use but the oxy is more convenient. I only have the caddy welder for the occasional portability needs.Other stuff.Auto darkening helmet, just so cheap these days you're are nuts not to have them.If you eyesight is aging, and for who of us isn't it, use specs when welding. Even $2 pairs help immensely to produce better quality welds.Grinders, a small angle grinder at least for weld prep and post weld cleanup. A cupo brush for it is a good investment too as are cut off wheels.Safety glasses, you'll need them when grinding and removing slag.Files, why ? There are materials that can be contaminated with carborundum from a grinder and a file is required for the last stages of cleanup.Gloves, yes there are times when you really need them with Mig in particular and it's splatter can make the process of laying down a nice weld most uncomfortable. They'll also prevent numerous burns while you learn your craft.Slag hammer, sorta goes without saying for arc and gasless Mig.Wire brushes.Cramps, several will be required as will backplanes, jigs and straight edges to cramp the work to to keep it straight while being welded.Squares, protractors etc for markout and setup.PitfallsMetal identification is crucial to successful serviceable welds.Preweld prep is also crucial to successful serviceable welds.Some cast metals require careful pre-weld preheat and post weld cooling to prevent cracking.There is lots to learn, enjoy the ride.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:27:12 am
content: I searched for a spreadsheet that may outline the pros and cons of all the different types, but didn't find anything.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:20:00 am
content: This thread sounds a bit like someone is asking for recommendations for their first multimeter and people are totally missing the point while extolling the virtues of this vs that 8-1/2 digit meter. I say get a cheap ass inverter stick welder from Bunnings or whatever and get a pile of steel scrap, 3mm or thicker and just play to your heart's content. If you decide hey, this is where it's at then you might want to move up to something better while either keeping or selling your entry level welder. Or you might decide after a while that this fad has run it's course then you haven't spent a whole lot. Up to you of course, but that's what I'd do. But whatever you do, don't get one of those old buzz box transformer stick welders, even if it's for free. The difference between one of those and an inverter welder is unbelievable.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:34:13 am
content: Quoteor an old car battery and a battery charge

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:19:23 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 01:27:12 amIt would only be a set of data based on the perspective of the one person chart creator.Depending on theweldor, the application can have good or bad results irrespective of what some chart says. It really depends on the skills and what is available to work with.There are purists out there who want perfect site conditions and insist on doing TIG only before they'll turn up. There also are peeps out there who could fix your car with a coat hanger, jumper leads and a microwave tranny.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:32:14 am
content: QuoteTrue.I've also wanted to learn welding, but I've heard it's quite dangerous. From what I've heard, sparks fall and roll remaining extremely hot for an extensive amount of time. Also, as the metal cools, it can pop. Many have habits of removing their helmet quickly to look at the weld subjecting themselves with the possibility of a hot piece of metal launching at their face.My point is actually that even though another person stated to just get any welder and weld to see if you like it, the first is understanding the dangers and safety. A hot rolling ball of metal can burn down your house and a popping hot weld can injure a person. Another concern has been whether you can get electrocuted from arc welders (if I'm using the correct term). The item being welded needs to have a ground clamp, so what happens if your hand gets close to the tip of the welder while you're leaning on the metal (or the metal table the item is resting on)?I've feared that if I took some Saturday afternoon course on welding that the instructor wouldn't practice such safety protocols thus leaving me to find out the hard way about injuries.As useful as providing the pros and cons of different welding methods, now that I think about it, maybe a nice list of safety practices would be very useful to not only the OP but anyone else reading. Of course you can find safety guidelines online, but thought to mention this since this is a thread on welding ideas.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:45:44 am
content: Check out jody athttps://www.youtube.com/c/weldingtipsandtricksEverything that you could want to learn is covered

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 04:04:56 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 03:32:14 amA good one-on-one weldor will let you use their good auto-darkening helmet, or perhaps even their whole kit. If guy is a one-arm-bandit, ask him to help you select a good full auto-shade-helmet. Decide what lens you want (fixed shade*, variable shade, adjustable etc). If safety and confidence therein is your primary concern, then choosing and wearing the right protection is a must before you pick up the handle.QuoteThey shouldn't, but remember that welding is inherently more dangerous than sitting at home. It's why good weldors are worth a lot of money here when the FIFO mining sector ramps up.If safety first is what you are there to learn first, then that's what you ask to be taught in first conversation with them, if you feel the need to be assured. Or shop around.HTH.* regarding fixed shade. Whilst not as nice as the full automatic shade, they are quite good that you can teach yourself to 'nod' the helmet down at the right time before lighting the torch.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 05:27:34 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 03:32:14 amyou watched to many movies? Esp dont watch too many marvel studio and hallowen serial killer one, they are mental hazard.. you can die in your sleep too.. how would you know if you dont try? If its really dangerous, no one will live to tell you about safety precautions.. a small blob of molten metal can burn your house is as good as marvel studio stories..

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:41:22 am
content: Quote from: notsob on November 08, 2022, 03:45:44 amMaybe, if you were a skilled welder already. But it doesn't cater for beginners. There are channels that are much better suited to beginners.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:46:06 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 08, 2022, 02:20:00 amI bought a Bossweld inverter from Bunnings on clearance to dip my toe in the water with. It was only $50 and it is about the size of a toaster. Really tiny. I know it has limitations but it does what I want.I found an old brake disc and had a go. Of course I can only weld in circles at the moment. Ray Charles would be proud of me.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:52:32 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on November 08, 2022, 11:46:06 amColonel Sanders looks down lovingly at all the chicken shit around.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 12:33:39 pm
content: Pop Quiz: If you use a soldering iron to join together two pieces of solder, are you welding?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 12:54:35 pm
content: Soldering is more akin to gluing parts together. A bonding medium is attached to the two parts and holds them together without melting the surface of the two parts. Welding melts the surface, and beyond, of the two parts and joins them together using a combination of the parts own material and a filler material. In spot welding, no filler is used, it is the material of the two parts being joined that melts and combines to form the bond. Then you have brazing as another method of joining materials togetherBrazing has more in common with soldering than welding as the filler material melts, but the parts surfaces do not. Flux is used to ensure a good bond.Hold on, I just re-read your post …. I read it wrongJoining two pieces of alloy (solder) together by melting the interface surfaces is “Welding”.It is much the same as fibre optic cable glass welding

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:17:40 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 08, 2022, 04:04:56 amAgreed. Getting the right protection is important. Those auto-shading welding helmets are great to use; I wouldn't want to weld without such a helmet. It makes work so much easier. Sometimes I see people doing welding on Youtube where they close their eyes (this isn't good enough; too much UV will go through your eyelids) or look away to do a quick tag weld.Wearing clothes that won't burn helps a lot and you'll need to have all your skin covered.Personally I'm going to venture into plasma cutting. I researched & ordered protective glasses (from 3M; should be a reputable brand) before the plasma cutter itself

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:38:37 pm
content: QuoteFirst thing I always learn about when using say a power tool like a saw is where are the dangers. You don't just go out and buy say a table saw and start sending pieces of wood through it. If you're not careful, the wood can come back and hit you. Of if you use a drill press, many people have a habit of holding the object while drilling or grabbing a metal shaving off the drill bit as the bit is spinning. You know what happens, the object catches and spins around hitting you; or you try grabbing a metal shaving and it slices your finger (seen it first hand).Someone who wasn't careful and didn't live to tell about it are reasons we have safety precautions in place on tools. Someone got injured or lost their life as a result of being careless. The takeaway is to learn from those mistakes and not repeat them.In all fairness, I think not taking something like a fire or getting injured while welding wasn't a smart message to contribute to this thread. You're basically saying to go ahead and weld without fear of getting injured or starting a fire. Maybe my concerns are more exaggerated than reality, but I've heard such concerns from experienced welders, and I'd rather pass on exaggerated concerns than discover the OP or anyone who reads this thread got injured as a result of not being aware or considering the risks.So are you saying it's perfectly safe to stop a weld, immediately remove your helmet, and shove your face inches from the weld, without fear the red glowing metal that's quickly cooling won't pop and launch a small piece of metal?There are a few types of people who get injured: the ones who rush a job and the ones who laugh in the face of safety.I've met people who will mock someone for taking safety steps, however, they are living with something that hinders their life due to an injury they sustained years earlier. I'd rather take a bit longer to do a job, a bit longer to setup the job for safety, wear extra protective gear, etc... than be one of the people who live with a life long injury.As for watching too many movies, when welding, you have two things going on. Really hot metal and electricity. Hot equals fire potential and electricity equals a shock hazard... period. I had a friend that had a house fire, a very large house fire, all because his sister had a candle burning in the bedroom that was left unattended. It somehow fell or something. Regardless, it was nothing more than a small candle, so I wouldn't joke about anything that has "potential" to grow into something bigger.

author: mag_therm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:11:25 pm
content: Best to enroll in proper training.I took the equivalent of this course (covering the main methods) in Australia about 40 years ago:https://shortcourses.swtafe.vic.edu.au/courses/1001331-introduction-to-welding-1In USA I took this one for oxy-acet 4130 tube welding about 15 years ago:https://www.eaa.org/shop/saw/workshop_details.aspx?workshop=gas_weldingExperimental Aircraft Association has added a TIG course for 4130 .https://www.eaa.org/shop/saw/workshop_details.aspx?workshop=tig_weldingWay back in engineering school, I took some units in structural eng, one of which covered the design of the basic welded joints.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 02:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 01:38:37 pmSometimes, after a weld, you need to use a chipping hammer to remove slag from your work. There should be at least eye protection at this stage anyway whether it's hot or not.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 03:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 01:38:37 pmno i didnt say that. what i meant is... when are you going to start learning if you worry too much about marvel story? few other points...1) you didnt read from 1st page, i'm the one who first talked about safety hazard and requirement.2) why you want to put your face near molten metal? only little kid who doesnt know all about heat and burn will do that without any protection.Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 01:38:37 pmi heard that urban legend its somehow logical, thats why we learn and take precautions. your problem is... when are you going to light a candle? we've played with it many times we just dont let it left unattended and dont put near a curtain or any other easily burnt material... small blob into a big fire is usually due to negligence or careless. if you dont have the capacity to being careful, yes... dont weld.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 05:47:38 pm
content: I think welding is probably one of those things that benefits from at least some initial in-person training, as there are several factors at play, and hard to know what you're doing wrong from the results.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 06:24:28 pm
content: In my opinion, if you are mostly interested in small repairs/builds and relatively infrequent hobby work, I would just get a stick or flux-core welder. Stick requires a little bit more finesse, but probably more versatile overall, and flux-core is just plain easy, although usually limited to thinner material. I know people hate on flux-core a lot, but I think it has it's place. Of course, if you are willing to pony up for TIG, gas tanks, and so on...you'll get great results with practice...but depends on how much time you are willing to commit to your craft, to make that worthwhile.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 06:48:39 pm
content: MIG is easier and the equipment is cheaper, it's arguably better for quickly sticking together items made of steel. It's possible to MIG weld aluminum but I never had much luck with it and the resulting weld is usually pretty ugly. TIG requires more skill and is slower but it's much more versatile and can easily weld aluminum and other metals that are difficult using other processes. It allows you to make really beautiful quality welds. I have a small MIG welder but the TIG at my friend's shop is the one I really enjoy using and I've considered buying myself a nice compact TIG machine.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 06:50:36 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 08, 2022, 05:47:38 pmYes I took a welding class several times in high school and something the teacher said really stuck "perfect practice makes perfect". If you're practicing the wrong technique you'll never get good results. Welding is definitely something that requires finesse and attention to the technique.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 06:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 08, 2022, 01:17:40 pmYes covering all skin is important! More than once I have received a wicked sunburn where I forgot to cover a patch of skin somewhere, usually in the summer where I'm wearing a short sleeved shirt. Also beware of your surroundings, being used to TIG at one point I pulled out a MIG machine which produces a lot more flying sparks and I set something on fire that was sitting on the bench, didn't notice it was burning until I stopped welding and the mask lightened.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 07:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on November 08, 2022, 01:38:37 pmPerfectly? No, of course not, but the world is not black & white, all or nothing. Yes welding can be dangerous, but not exceedingly so, I learned to weld when I was 15 and I've never had an injury more serious than a sunburn or a minor burn to my finger. I would say it's roughly as dangerous as riding a bicycle, in both cases you should wear some basic protective gear, be mindful of what you're doing and not take unnecessary risks. There is no reason to shove your face into red glowing metal, you don't need to take your helmet off, the auto-darkening ones lighten so you can see, the manual type you flip the dark glass up and still have a protective lens. I've never seen a piece of hot metal launch, the closest to that I've ever experienced is slag that forms when stick welding.

author: totalnoob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 11:28:52 pm
content: Get a multi-process welder so you don't have to decide between Mig, Tig or Stick you get all three. When it comes to Tig, make sure it has HF start and can be used with a pedal. Back when I bought my welder, which was not that long ago, those two things were not available in low-cost multiprocess welders. It was my luck that those features came out almost exactly 2 years after I bought my welder.Outside of that, I live Stateside, so I can't help with brands. Also, and I think I saw others mention this, take a course before you buy any welders. That way you can try out welding to see if it really something you want to get involved with.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 06:52:56 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 08, 2022, 05:47:38 pmYeah, thinking of taking a course.Mrs EEVblog is also interested after having just done her axe throwing course

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 07:24:21 am
content: Things I learned the hard way:1: Clean the oils and (for iron) rust off. All of it. Even the hard black oxide layer. Just take the time to do it so you can start learning to weld instead of cuss. Don't mess with rusty junk. For aluminum, don't worry about the oxide, just weld it.2: If you cannot see what you are doing, you are not welding. Adjust your shield darkness and try to focus on seeing the puddle first (some say its harder with aluminum, I disagree). Just start with a single piece and work on that, not joining two pieces. A pass across a flat piece can tell you everything you need to know. If you cannot see your puddle, find a new hobby.3: Your new welder will likely have a duty cycle (different for each input voltage and output setting). Mind that number or plan on buying welders often. Typically, welder duty cycle is rated in % based on a 10 minute period. A 40% duty cycle means that setting can be run for 4 minutes and then must cool down for 6 minutes.4: If you come across a youtube tutorial with no voice, just zap zap zap perfect weld, skip that video immediately and find a better one. There are some reputable channels out there.5: There are a lot of very good multipurpose welders out there that are priced towards hobbyists. Don't let anyone convince you that your first welder needs to be red (Lincoln) or blue (Miller). Unless you intend to run a 130A weld for 15 minutes straight, just get a $1k unit and mind the duty cycle. I love my Vulcan. It does MIG, TIG, stick, aluminum spool and has very close automatic settings for each mode based on material and thickness.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 08:21:33 am
content: Quote from: antenna on November 09, 2022, 07:24:21 amI've never spent $1k on a tool before in my life, don't plan to for this.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 08:56:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 09, 2022, 08:21:33 amThat makes it hard, but there are some options, just need a spare extension cord and some tin snips to cut out some E/I cores.All joking aside, $1k total is going to be pretty hard with any welding tech that requires both a gas bottle and the welder.Unless you're ok spending $2k but just not more than 1k per item. Then you're fine.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 09:22:32 am
content: Dirt cheap china come for mma/mig is $100 but i choosed higher local brand $250 incl tig (200A+ iirc with gas, not gasless.) so i get what i paid for.. small air compressor maybe $100, tubing and adapters are nothing..consumable rods/sticks depends on your appetite, assume also nothing like $10 to 50.. geo specific, a tank of argon or oxy maybe another $100 if air compressor not the option. But air compressor can do many things, except a shiny khacing weld joint.. plus protective and china auto darken glass etc is also cheap... if you are cheap arse its possible. But be aware super cheap triac/lgbt based can die soon. I got a damaged mma unit from relative that i need to repair, i think its like $30-50 tag about a year operation.. big heavy arsed 50/60hz transformer cannot damage easily like this..

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 09:34:52 am
content: Good welding depends on knowledge, practice and to an extent not appreciated by many, physical limitations like eyesight and hearing. I started with an el cheapo stick welder I inherited and later graduated to a used good quality flux core unit. Through this all used the cheapest auto dimming welding helmet I could find. I was getting poor to marginally acceptable welds, but my son's could get good quality welds. I could get better welds by providing intense workplace lighting, which let me see the puddle and joint. My son's could see these without the outside help. I later bought a better helmet and suddenly I could see what I was doing without all the auxiliary lights. Weld quality took a huge jump.The moral of this long winded story - the welder is not the only piece of equipment to worry about, and your need for other pieces of the equation may vary from person to person.This applies to all the gear. Clamps, tables, grinders, brushes and wire/rods.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 09:56:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 09, 2022, 08:21:33 amGood luck with your pursuit then as your options of what you'll be able to weld will be somewhat limited but that may just suit your needs however if it was an electronic instrument we might instead of limiting our capabilities select an instrument to grow into as skill develops. Welding is no different.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:14:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 09, 2022, 08:21:33 amNever mind learning to weld. Learn to code instead!Costs ya nothin'.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:27:38 am
content: its funny i usually see that kind of negative comments in beginner section to a real beginner asking advice on equipments, now it happens to the forum admineven coding need a 1K PC, even worse people are willing to spend on 1K GPU just to get some ass kicking and jumping aroundhere is my latest weld project with a $250 tool... if not because of it, it may have costed me many multiple times (more than 1K) the bare metals i bought to build this one. the green trailer one below holding the more than a tonne load up there...

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:42:12 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 09, 2022, 10:27:38 amI always thought it was a piss take post, but played along anyhow. 'Learn to weld' is the twitter chant response levelled at those who told blue collar workers* who were mass fired to 'learn to code'. It's a thing.The giveaway was the mention in the OP that a woman would want to weld. I mean, seriously, you'd let them have a little go, but we wouldn't let them near anything important or structural like a bridge.*edit: I was not quite accurate, it originated from journalists. Anyway...

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:15:52 am
content: well like everybody said, dont limit ones creativity... or maybe.. gender equality?lets see how long she can stand the burn and heat...

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:22:08 am
content: Many things can be made with a welder. Sandwiches isn't one of them.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:29:44 am
content: Here's where it started ( I think..)https://twitter.com/Brooke__2000/status/1588519779026931712

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 02:24:26 pm
content: my first time seeing a welder was my fathers on the family farm.stay away, when the unit was up and running.I got use it as a teen, arc or stick welder was used for the fabrication of farm gates , sheep yards & all manner of farm type repairs.most of the work was with steel tubing or angle iron - angle steel. grinding & chipping off the slag before the spray painting.the petrol powered arc welder was a dedicated DIY two wheel trailer design that can be towed anywhere.the Lincoln PTO power take-off 200 Amp Welder & 220/240V Generator was powered by a Ford flathead V8 salvaged from something WW2 -a Dingo scout car.all mounted on a two wheel trailer with a set of vee belts & pulley running off the back of the flywheel. gave it an r.p.m. step -upas the old 85 hp flathead V8 was speed governed to just above fast idling. it would growl under load like a hotrod when welding.some yrs later we replaced the V8 with a MF701 massey ferguson 4 cylinder petrol baler engine.as this was somewhat more fuel efficient & less likely to overheat on hot-days. those engines are now antiques.welding flash was a problem as the starting of the arc on rusty metal.back then welding helmets had no auto darkening, it was a flip up visor. also galvanised steel gave off very toxic fumes when hot.keeping the orange bead consistent , tricky then working with thin sheet steel. had to play with the Amp settings a bit.those were the days!

author: geggi1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 07:46:08 pm
content: Probably the simplest way for getting started welding is with sticks.Get a 160A inverter stick welder of a decent brand. Dont get the cheepest one avalable.Get a selfdimming hat with ajustable dimming level.For rods you shuld get some that are simple to use ask for a rod similar to ESAB 48.08 because they ar simple to get started with. Use thin rods 1,6mm or 2mm is simpler.NB! dont start welding stainless steel its expensive and harder to weld and it will also require other rods (316 rods).Start welding on mild steel 5mm /6mm 1/4" because the heat will be better arbsorbend with some mass. Go to a scrapyard and get some steel but keep away form galvanized because it will require a lot of grinding and the fumes a dangorus when you weld.Usualy there are some reccomandation of current on the package with rods. set the current 10-20 Amps abow the lowest reccomended current for a 1,6 or 2mm rod onthicker rods you might go higher.Start welding worms on a pice of plate or flatbar until you got bot of controll on the rod movement and current. In the beginning you will most likely have many rods fused to the test piece until you get better controll. Rebare is normaly also simple to weld tin the beginneing use at least 10mmDont give up!When you fell you got some control you can start to weld pieces of steel totether.Other reccomended euipment:Anglegrinder 4" or 5" with cutting, gringing and flap discs.Welding pick.Wirebrush.I started with at the worst end.2mm stainless steel.Combination of black and stainless and in many cases stainless on galvanized steel.If you manage this mild steel on mild steel is simple.A final word.Dont start on cast iron because it got a very high carbon content and is normally hard to weld.After welding it will often be brittle.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 07:47:44 pm
content: jonovidI had a hankering for one of them welder/genset Lincoln's too for the farm repair/maintenance/fabrication we did too.For some years we borrowed neighbor uncles Youngs B but when he moved away brought a new 180A thyristor controlled 230VAC single phase unit. Served us well for a few years until one of its Unijunction oscillators died but with the help of an EE mate learnt how to set it up again tuning the thyristor gating for the perfect phase control match.Being a high OC voltage welder it struck a weld just nice but OTOH wasn't too happy driving Low Hydrogen high tensile rods. Still, properly phase match adjusted it ran really smooth and was a nice little welder to use and one of a very few non-inverter types you could pick up with one hand.It's been recycled now after getting annealed in a fire.After which we urgently needed another welder for the workshop (there's always stuff breaking and needing fixing) I scored a 400A 3ph (uses only 2 actually) with long heavy leads for just $200 barely 10km away which is my main welder now. I've pushed it to 250A with deep penetration rods welding heavy 200UC beams together for a 9m shed rafter.Mainly I leave it on low power output config for the bit higher OC voltage for easy arc striking and even that setting provides 300A max albeit with lower duty cycle spec.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 09:07:55 pm
content: When I learned, they had us start with stick welding and then later we got to try MIG and TIG. Stick welding is arguably the most difficult and fiddly, you have to use the right kind of rod and technique is very important. The fact that your electrode is constantly getting shorter adds a significant challenge. Once you've gotten the hang of that, MIG feels really easy. TIG is a lot more like oxy-acetylene welding than other arc welding techniques.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 09:28:30 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 09, 2022, 09:07:55 pm100% but both require observance of what's happening at weld pool level and correct supply settings to be successful.Arguably these are harder to learn than plain arc.Welding is quite easy in the flat (horizontal) position where the preference is to position all/any welding to be horizontal and so not to have to deal with all the crazy stuff a weld pool does when not on the flat.Different weld directions are required for vertical for example and some arc rods are better for this than others.Then add specialist rods and or metals and everything starts to become quite complex.My verticals look very ugly but focus is not on looks but ensuring best penetration and fusion which mostly results in looking like birds have poo'ed everywhere but I know it won't break. That's what little ginders are for, cleaning up the mess.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:30:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 09, 2022, 10:27:38 amWe'll talk further once your trailer has travelled 100k km over bumpy roads...Ofcourse there is always the tradeoff between getting the best tool for the job and money to be spend. OTOH just setting an arbitrary limit at 1k (or another amount) is rather useless though.It is interesting that people have different opinions on what is the easiest technique to start. If you have had no exposure to welding I think it is a good idea to get some kind of hands on experience either through a course or friends/family who have a various welding equipment to try.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:09:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 09, 2022, 08:21:33 amThink about it from this standpoint. How much would a 220V 200A bench power supply cost? That power supply isn't just variable voltage and constant current, but it's also AC modulated with variable frequency and duty cycle and offset. That's what a good AC/DC TIG welder is.If I were you, I would contact Everlast and see if they would give you a unit since you already have a big Youtube presence.Also as some people mentioned, check out the local community colleges (or whatever that looks like un Australia). They typically have really good programs. If you are just learning, you can use all the instruction and practice you can get. Plus you can use their real machines before you get one so you can see first hand how much cheap welders suck before you waste your money on one

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 11:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 09, 2022, 10:30:10 pmi need it just to lift the load off the water nearby. we dont drag the load like 100km away, we use big truck for that. dealing with bumpy road will need more than welding skill to assemble suspension system, towing rig connection, safety compliance etc. the point is if i dont have the tool to diy what is "just enough" for me at cheaper cost, i will have to spend hefty money for something that cannot survive 100k km anyway and no proper suspension system, just a little bit more metal than what i did and that i wont use everyday.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 12:35:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 09, 2022, 08:21:33 amNot even a piece of test equipment?You can certainly get a usable welder for less, especially if you buy used, but just beware of going too cheap, someone told me once "buy good tools and only cry once" and that has worked out well for me. You don't have to buy a top of the line professional machine with all the bells & whistles, but to some degree you get what you pay for. Buying a welder is a lot like buying a scope, you can sometimes get a deal on an old analog machine that is big and clunky, or you can buy a cheap modern thing that has lofty claims it may or may not live up to, or you can look a pro gear. The difference is that a top notch professional welder costs about the same as the entry level product from one of the A-list brands. Also as with a scope, you can look at the resale value of used stuff before you decide to buy something. A good quality machine that is well taken care of should hold its value.Another route is to find a broken one, repairing a modern-ish inverter welder could make for an interesting video.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 01:07:47 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 10, 2022, 12:35:55 amThat would certainly be a challenge and we have a few of these modern things as projects in the Repair board.Still if Dave and Mrs Dave wanna dip their toes in the water they might as well buy some cheap POS from Bunnings or wherever local and then flick it if they find it's not their cup of tea.If they are careful to get something with a transferable warranty the entry and exit costs will be low.Then with a teeny bit of experience behind them a further purchase might have all the bells and whistles of what makes a good welding power source.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 02:00:06 am
content: Isn't taking a course cheaper? Also, wouldn't it be possible to rent good welding equipment?For example: earlier this year I endeavoured into wavesurfing. Not knowing I would actually enjoy or even be able to do it, I took a couple of courses (being the oldest participant by far every time) using rented equipment instead of going full in buying my own gear (with the risk of getting stuck with stuff I never use again).

author: Gareth79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 03:07:20 am
content: Definitely recommend welding to anybody who likes to tinker with stuff. Even just for the fun of it, and then every project is one that can be solved with weldingMy first welder was a "Wolf 200" or something. It did the job, but the wire feed was very temperamental and it took a lot of messing around each time to get a decent weld. Also it was HEAVY.Then I had a bit of money spare and got a Kemppi machine (MiniarcMig Evo) and WOW it produced perfect welds immediately with zero messing around. Ok it was £1k, but if I bought it first the cumulative time/stress saved would have been well worth it..

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 03:18:48 pm
content: For Aussies buying at Bunnings, don't forget spare lens packs for your helmet. Try searching on Ozito welding lens. I don't know if an alternative lens is available but you will eventually need to replace the lenses. I'd buy a pack straight away just in case they aren't still available easily (and cheaply) later on.I found Bunnings are clearing the Bossweld X-sight range and they don't appear on a website search. I don't feel qualified to recommend them but I saw them for $50 and I asked for $30 and got it. Your local store might have some left.https://dynaweld.com.au/product/bossweld-xsight-series-electronic-welding-helmets/This may be one of the problems with buying at Bunnings if they delete a range of products. You might be left high and dry looking for spares in a few years.I hope that is useful to someone.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2022, 04:45:51 am
content: The really cheap welders have a tendency to explode their IGBT/FETs.If you have to go cheap, like maybe under AUD$600, I wouldn't run it above 50% it's amp ratings.Even AUS$600-1000 I would still under rate the amps a bit.I got my WSE-200P JASIC AC/DC TIG welder 7 years ago. It cost around NZD$950 inc shipping and I don't run it over 150A even though it's rate 200A.However 150A is plenty useful for most things, especially learning to weld.I wouldn't recommend a cheap china 100A welder.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2022, 07:18:33 pm
content: Just stumbled on this helpful basic overview from Edd China.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:59:54 am
content: the cheapest way to weld is coal and hammermight actually be fun that way too

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 05:20:40 am
content: Or car batteries and jumper cables.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 06:08:02 am
content: Hi DaveI'm going through a similar process right now. The only difference is I already know how to stick 2 bits of metal together with mig, tig and stickI say "stick bits of metal together" because I haven't done any courses so I wouldn't be trusting my welds in anything where structural integrity is important.Having said that if you get decent penetration and the thing looks solid, I would personally trust it.Which machine you buy is predicated on what you would like to weld.For me I want to be able to weld up mild steel and thin aluminium (1 to 3mm)I was going to go for a unimig viper 185 which seems to be the pick of the litter as far as multiprocess welding machines go for hobby use but as I found out recently from some of my boilermaker mates is that to do tig on aluminium you need AC tig. Something to do with on one polarity it does the welding and on the other it cleans the oxide. There are youtube vids out there showing DC tig and you can see the pool of molten material forming an outer layer of oxide that prevents the pool from flowing into the work properlyThe viper is DC only so tigging Al is out of the question. They say you can mig Al but you will need a spool gun because the aluminium reel is too soft to push up the entire distance from the inverter to the hand piece so they mount the spool on the hand piece itself.Problem with the handspool/mig solution is that it's only good for aluminium at least 1/4" thick.The other downside with mig and Al is that tig, once you get good at it, looks better because it's more controllableWith that in mind I started searching for a multiprocess welder that had AC tig and found a good lincoln unit but the price jumps to 2 grand from the viper's 1 grand.The missus is all for it but she said I'll have to save the extra grand outa my pocket moneyYou also need to look at gas bottles for tig and mig. both processes need different gassesI learnt mainly using stick as at the time mig and tig where only just coming out and the machines where prohibitively expensive and huge.Stick these days is good for outside work on windy days as the gas shield gets blown away with even small breezes. One problem with stick at the moment is the rods are nearly as expensive as a head of lettuceHere are links to both the unimig and the lincolnOh and pay the extra couple of hundred buck to make sure you get the bundle with all the attachments for all the processes including a welding maskUnimighttps://www.machineryhouse.com.au/k0181dLincolnhttps://toolkitdepot.com.au/lincoln-electric-powercraft-reg-200m-4in1-multi-purpose-welder-k69074-1/PS If you have any questions feel free to ask, I have been casually researching this stuff for a couple of weeks

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 09:28:39 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on November 13, 2022, 06:08:02 amProfessional solutions offer pull handpieces often powered by air that permit MIG leads up to 10m in length rather than some pissy little spool handpiece.I had an air powered ESAB handpiece that would pull 1.2mm alloy or 15kg spools of 0.6- 1mm steel.Wire feed was set with an adjustable air feed to the pull motor on the handpiece. Quite disconcerting to begin with if you couldn't get used to the additional handpiece weight and/or the air motor buzzing in the handpiece.Of course the disadvantage was needing a compressed air source too.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 09:27:23 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 13, 2022, 09:28:39 amSince when is an excuse to get another tool a disadvantageSeriously though, is having a welder but no compressor even allowed? You will need a compressor anyway when you get your plasma cutter.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 10:43:03 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on November 13, 2022, 09:27:23 pmThat's next on my list, cheap as chips

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 11:03:10 pm
content: and when you want to paint finish your welded project.. and then a 1K spray gun and mask, lathe, drill bench cnc the list go on and on until you have no more space... welcome to mechanical TeA..

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:45:39 am
content: Once you start welding, you’ll desire all sorts of new toys to go along with your welder(s) that will end up costing at least as much as the initial welding equipment:Grinders: the more the merrier because it is such a PITA to change out grinding discs for cutting discs and don’t forget wire wheels that will need a slower turning motive power to slow down the user being impaled by stray wire shedding from the wheel.A needle scaler is very nice if you use flux; most require compressed airA metal cutting saw that cuts reasonably straight, square and mitered cuts. The HE&Msaw ABS-NG120XL is my current favoriteA welding table that has a very flat and thick surface to keep things positionedClamps and more clamps; you can never have too many clampsA few fire extinguishers are recommended

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 08:05:31 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 13, 2022, 11:03:10 pmI hear youand then there's the woodworking side of things, routers, planers circular saws, bench sawsI have to waste my money on those things because it keeps SWMBO happy when I make wooden thingsme: "Look I just made my own 4 channel 1GHz 10GSa/s scope"she: "Did you take the bins out?"me: "I just nailed 4 bits of long timber to one flat one and made a table"she: "Oh wow, how did you do that, did it take long...................."

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on November 13, 2022, 09:27:23 pmA compressor is always handy. Last week I got a plasmacutter (150 euro from Amazon) and that needs a serious amount of air. I have a 230l/min (1500W) compressor and it just keeps up with the cutting pressure set to 4 bar but any higher will be a problem. However, a single 16A circuit isn't enough to run both the plasma cutter and the compressor at the same time. And this lead me to another rabbit hole I have put off crawling into: my shed is on a single circuit which is shared with the living room and some bedrooms. The designers of my home found it necessary to save a few meters of cable and a circuit breaker. This has been something I wanted to change for a while already and now there is a good reason. I ordered a 25A GFI, cable with 6mm^2 conductors so I can upgrade to 32A, two 16A circuit breakers + box in order to upgrade the feed to my shed. This should also allow me to run 400V 3 phase equipment from an inverter.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:46:37 am
content: The demand for air from various tools is hard to comprehend until you actually use them. I lucked out, my current house came with a roughly 3500 watt compressor with a 300 liter tank (5 hp/80 gallon tank for those of us who grew up on alternate units). It is mostly enough air. It maintains 10-11 bar under almost all the uses I have put it to.The cheap as chips compressors can't keep up with all but the most parsimonious tools. Better than nothing, but in this crowd the appropriate comparison is the unregulated electric pencil soldering irons.Beware of delivery specs. At least here in the US these are often "enhanced" much like audio power. Quoted at unusably low pressure, or "instantaneous" (delivery from a full tank, limited by plumbing diameter) or some other tomfoolery.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 12:20:00 am
content: I was fortunate enough to land one of those Chicago 4 pump jobbies which, It should produce enough air to run my sand blasting cabinet, which I've yet to set up.It's certainly enough to run the spraygun but then again I believe these gravity fed sprayguns are supposed to be low air consumers

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 12:53:22 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on November 16, 2022, 12:20:00 amIMHO you should consider those as the 'cheap kind'. One of the things missing is a heat exhanger to cool the air before it goes into the tank. Without the heat exchanger you'll see a drop in pressure just because the air in the tank is cooling down. But heck, it is cheap...My new cheap compressor has a 2 cylinder compressor unit on it. I did replace / rebuild all the pipe work on it with including a decent shut-off valve and pressure reducer.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 02:45:15 am
content: Well cheap is a relative term. I understand the costs of industrial compressors but they're a different technology altogether.Not happy what happened to me, paid 17 hundred and six months later while I was in there for something else it was on special for 12 hundred down 200 from 14 hundred... Grrrrrr!!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 06:56:47 am
content: Well worth the watch for the new/novice MIG welder: