POLL & Discussion: Keysight 1000X Giveaway - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:17:11 am
content: So I have a couple to giveaway, and the usual argument has come up again. Should I just limit the forum giveaway to countries not covered the Keysight Scopemonth promo, or to everyone?Remember that Keysight are giving away 5 scopesper dayfor a month.Argue away...

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:20:55 am
content: From a country (Sweden) that is not covered, it seems to help rebalance the fairness. Ultimately it is just nice to have a chance, even if the chance is 1 in a lot or 1 in slightly fewer!

author: MrBungle
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:30:32 am
content: +1 to what Tim said, my feelings exactly.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:31:48 am
content: As much as I'd like to think I might win one, I think it's fair to go with countries not covered.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:42:25 am
content: Shipping to Melbourne is of course much cheaper Dave.

author: magnehh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:50:11 am
content: I'm just happy to have a chance really. But since there are two scopes in this competition, and a lot more in the other one, I vote Yes.

author: voltlog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:53:14 am
content: You cannot right a wrong by committing another wrong. Everyone should be able to participate IMHO.

author: TNb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:03:44 am
content: I am not really sure if they limit anything, do they? When applying for scope month you can choose "Other country" and write wherever you are from. So I suppose they are fine with every country but some customs/shipping can be more difficult in those that are not on the list. I am not sure, but if they would want to strictly limit they would not have "Other country" option.

author: MrBungle
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:09:59 am
content: Quote from: TNb on February 16, 2017, 10:03:44 amUnfortunately, from theScope Month 2017 Megathread:Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on January 27, 2017, 06:20:07 am

author: TNb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:24:42 am
content: By the way is this topic only about forum giveaway? Because on youtube 95% of people don't even write their country,so it is impossible to check until you contact a winner.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:30:09 am
content: Quote from: TNb on February 16, 2017, 10:24:42 amJust the forum.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:32:00 am
content: Dave, you should rename the thread title.When I saw the thread's title for the 1st time, my fingers muscle memory typed in .. "I'm in" ...

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:35:12 am
content: Higher chance of me winning, so yes!Non-eligible countries only.

author: vpetrog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:40:37 am
content: i' m also in favour of giving away the scopes in the countries not covered by keysight. However in case the shipping cost is too much, you can ask the winner for total/partial shipping contribution.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 10:56:34 am
content: Sounds fair to me to include only those countries who are ineligible for the main Keysight giveaway.

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:00:27 am
content: How about this (sorry, not sure if this was already posted, didnt read the entire thread before posting):People from any country allowed to win can enter. But they can also act as a proxy for someone who is in a country not on the list.People in countries on the list can post a second entry in the competition stating they are willing to be a proxy, and a prospective winner can PM that proxy. The proxy then updates their post with the name of the person they are proxying for.The two just have to nut out their own terms for postage, customs charges etc, perhaps with some ground rules (like registered/trackable post, and proof of postage through receipts etc with address, so no sneaky "oh sure I sent it, must have got lost" but kept it for themselves).This way no one loses out.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:05:58 am
content: I voted for ineligible countries only due to the very high number of scopes and chances that are available to those in eligible ones, there's generally a madness in my method but not this time around.Almost 3000 comments already in the Youtube video was a bit of a shock to the system, I'm hedging my bets so I left a comment just in case, after seeing the Keysight 1000X taking out a lottery ticket is also on the cards.

author: Andrey_irk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:16:57 am
content: Keysight has some problems with giving away their equipment in some countries as long as I remember they said.And maybe they don't want to include Russia in their list, because the notorious russian post will lose everythingBut lets try...

author: TNb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:39:46 am
content: Quote from: TomS_ on February 16, 2017, 11:00:27 amI suppose you are talking about official Keysight scope month, that makes sense, but for Dave's forum giveaway its just about making more fair contest. It would be nice if Keysight would implements such idea, but I think it is too late now I suppose.

author: modrobert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:46:00 am
content: Quote from: vpetrog on February 16, 2017, 10:40:37 amGood idea!The winners might want to decide shipping method anyway, especially in some countries with corrupt customs handling.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:53:07 am
content: You're audience and scope is the forum so IMO all the forum members should be able to participate.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:05:05 pm
content: Keysight's limitations are said to have something to do with import/export laws, shipping regulations, and/or laws regulating gambling or other games of chance (e.g., in effect the giveaway is a lottery). That probably explains why residents of the states of New York, Florida, and Rhode Island are excluded, while residents of the rest of the USA are included. In response to whatever factors are involved in that decision, it has been suggested that EEVBlog limit its giveaways to those who can't participate in the Keysight giveaway.1) Unfortunately, no one has explained how such arbitrary discrimination by EEVBlog will rectify the legitimate discrimination of the Keysight giveaway, except for a rather obtuse concept of "fairness." Taking that concept a little further, if Dave wants to be really "fair," he must willing to ship technical equipment to members living inanyof the excluded countries, including those under UN sanctions, those in war zones, and those in which there has been a complete breakdown of civil law, even if such shipment is in violation of laws of Australia or the recipient's residence (e.g., New York, USA)?It seems odd that a perceived unfairness committed by one entity in response to obeying the law(s) can be rectified by another entity that is willing to break the laws.Despite Dave's best intentions, it is a pretty good bet that he will obey existing laws, and there will still be people who cannot participate for the very same reasons cited by Keysight for its exclusions.2) Keysight is giving away oscilloscopes. Is EEVBlog is anticipating also giving away comparable oscilloscopes? How can it possibly be fair to exclude someone who is eligible to get a brand new, worthless piece of Keysight junk from getting a valuable piece of hardware from Dave (with or without the warranty sticker intact).Finally, to reiterate what has already been said, two wrongs do not make a right.John

author: Sbampato12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:18:18 pm
content: I voted wrong.....I should selected NO, but choosed Don't care...Even as someone from a country not covered by Keysight, I really don't think you should limit the entries. If it is possible, keep everyone on equals chances, at least around here (forum).

author: modrobert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:19:45 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on February 16, 2017, 12:05:05 pmYou are forgetting something, each country in the world is sovereign with their own laws. Whatever Dave decides to do only has to comply with laws in Australia, the laws in USA are irrelevant in this case.

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:25:00 pm
content: Quote from: TNb on February 16, 2017, 11:39:46 amI am talking about Daves giveaway.Keysight have stated they have legal constraints with certain countries (or even states within a country), and no amount of shoe horning around the issue is going to make those go away - infact it could land them in trouble for doing so. A legal restriction is a legal restriction no matter how clever you think you can get. A sad, unfortunate aspect of life.Dave, as seemingly some kind of official partner for this giveaway, may be constrained similarly. Or maybe not, I am no lawyer.But an individual sending a package is certainly less likely to have such an issue, provided there are no restrictions on the material they are shipping and/or the destination.I would certainly love to win a scope, Ive never had one, have been looking at buying one, and Im working on some projects at the moment where no doubt one could come in handy. But as much as I am concerned with my own interests, I'd be willing to help someone else with a chance to win one too (unless winning proceeds of this kind of competition by proxy is also prohibited....?).

author: testian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:37:41 pm
content: The Giveaway should be for all your forum members and i would not exclude anyone.Here is a list which country is included in the keysight giveaway:Country list from their website:AustriaCanadaChileDenmarkFinlandFranceGermanyIrelandJapanKoreaNew ZealandPolandSouth AfricaSwitzerlandTaiwanUnited KingdomUnited StatesVenezuela(other)Terms & Conditions:This promotion is limited to specific countries and is only open to entrants aged 18 years or older at the time of submission who are legal residents of, and physically located within Austria, Canada (excluding the Province of Quebec), Chile, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, Republic of Korea, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States (excluding Florida, New York, and Rhode Island), and Venezuela.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:49:42 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on February 16, 2017, 12:05:05 pmSorry this is just BS. They have an actual R&D center here. Sure they have huge trouble ship anyhting there. They develop everything by banging rocks together. And the lottery here is an underground thing, you need to go to dark alleys, and talk to strange people.It's just the usual USA "I cannot be bothered to look up your law, so instead I dont do business with you, you are insignificant anyway" infuriating mentality.

author: neil t
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:52:14 pm
content: Regardless of the obvious benefits (I'm in Oz) its an eevblog giveaway ,so in my mind that really sets the guidelines. although I'm in Newcastle I could almost limp to Sydney from here if I roll down a few hills on the way.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:56:35 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 16, 2017, 12:49:42 pmI call bullshit on that. They seem to have looked up enough laws in enough countries to put up a list of eligible countries.Let ma ask you a question: Have you looked upyourlaws on this subject?

author: MrBungle
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:00:57 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on February 16, 2017, 12:05:05 pmWow.Just.Wow.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:13:52 pm
content: Quote from: testian on February 16, 2017, 12:37:41 pmWhy is New York excluded?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:15:42 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on February 16, 2017, 01:13:52 pmMy bet - which isn't much of a gamble - is that it's going to be because of the state laws regarding promotions of this nature.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:21:41 pm
content: Here is my sense of fairness:If we are talking about Keysight giveaways, but redistributed through EEVblog, then EEVblog should allow only the countries forbidden in the original daily Keysight giveaway.If the EEvblog giveaways are procured from a source other then the original daily Keysight giveaway, then all the countries should be allowed.Later Edit:I just saw Dave's new video, now, how do I take my vote back?Only the forbidden countries should have access to Dave's dumpster!

author: Arielo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:24:43 pm
content: I live in a country where used scopes are either inexistent or priced almost at the same price as new equipment, and new equipment is more expensive than anywere else in the world, but it wouldn't be faire to people in "Keysight eligible countries" not to participate in this poll.It would be nice, though, that if the winner already has an scope, to "donate" this scope to be polled again, so the prize would go to someone who actually needs a scope.I've never won anything on a poll, and even though I would like the extra chances of winning, it wouldn't be fair to exlude others, even if they have more options or chances to win a scope. Just because you sign up for two polls doesn't mean you will actually win one.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 16, 2017, 01:15:42 pmThat's a bummer, I have family over there.a well, I maybe can contact some friends in new zealand...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:28:48 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on February 16, 2017, 01:27:17 pmThere you go.

author: cat87
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:36:29 pm
content: Agilent'serr... Keysight's policy of only allowing a few countries to join their contest is a real drag.If they really want to support EE's, wherever they may be, they should allow every one to enlist in the draw. As most likely publicity is the engine driving this initiative, that's not something that's going to change.That's where the EEV Forum comes in (in my opinion). So, again, because any and every EE deserves their fair chance, I think all the countries should enter the forum giveawayFree test gear for everyone

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:48:45 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 16, 2017, 12:56:35 pmYou know, what? Not really. I dont make draws.But I did it now anyway. Here it is:QuoteSo same as doing the 1+1 math exam, like the Canadians.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 16, 2017, 01:28:48 pmAlthough, they're having a pretty big BBQ right now:http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89464361/Christchurch-Port-Hills-fires-cause-looks-suspicious-PM-Bill-English-says

author: olewales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:53:33 pm
content: On the one hand the eevblog forum community is not (exactly) the same set of people who will take part in scopemoth giveaways but on the other I would not feel in any way bad if forum giveaway was region-restricted.AgilentKeysight will give 125 of them away to a somewhat limited list of countries. The overall probability of winning for people living there may even be bigger on a Keysight website than in a forum raffle.If you feel that it is the right thing to do, go for it.

author: ChrisGreece52
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 02:11:59 pm
content: So by writing this comment i am eligible for this giveaway?

author: mikeys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 02:14:13 pm
content: I'm in a country covered by the normal giveaway, I reckon you should just cover the excluded ones. Makes it a little bit more fair. There's plenty to go around on the full competition, not very many here.

author: testian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 02:40:53 pm
content: Quote from: ChrisGreece52 on February 16, 2017, 02:11:59 pmThe eevblog giveaway will be in another thread, like the ones before, as spoon as Dave knows who will be eligible for the giveaway.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 04:13:03 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 16, 2017, 12:49:42 pmThat's not it, we actually did some extra looking into Belgium specifically after a couple people commented on it during Cyberweek and there's nothing we were able to do. From a logical standpoint, the number of interested people is roughly proportional to the amount of business in a country is roughly proportional to the number of Scope Month entries. It doesn't hurt us to include more countries, the decision is based purely on legality.

author: tzok
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 04:48:22 pm
content: I said "no" in the poll, because I live in a country which is covered by the Scope Month promotion (Poland), yet I can't participate as I work for a public university

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 04:56:25 pm
content: I voted "yes" because I think it's only fair to give forum members from countries, who are not eligible to the Keysight contest, a better chance of winning one of the scopes

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 06:03:57 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on February 16, 2017, 04:13:03 pmI can confirm for Croatia that Daniel is right.. Laws here are complicated for this kind of event..But, Daniel, I have a suggestion. You might check with your legal department if this is possible.Dont make a contest that draws scopes... You don't give me a scope as a gift. You can give me a voucher that gives me 99% discount if I go and buy scope from Keysight.So I can buy it for , let's say 10 USD... That legally makes it a purchase, and all is solved.... You can make voucher nontransferable, so no funky business with that.How about that?Would that be possible?Regards,Sinisa

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 06:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: timgiles on February 16, 2017, 09:20:55 am+1 for this

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 06:59:00 pm
content: I'm OK with it either way. If I can qualify, great. If not, no problem.After all, the giveaway is not the reason I invest time on the EEVblog forum.

author: TNb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 07:26:55 pm
content: Quote from: tzok on February 16, 2017, 04:48:22 pmHow does it restricts you from participating? Did I miss something?EDIT: Missed it in FAQ. Damn, I stated my uni in company field, though I am just a student, not employee, hope they don't mind

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 07:36:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 16, 2017, 09:17:11 amI gotta wonder why, or what's the motivation? Would this (your scope giveaway) be an argument if the Chinese mfgs were giving away scopes to the world, or only to non "privileged" countries?I'd rather we look at the real issue here. It's white people who are privileged, no matter where they live. So exclude them, not poor unfortunate minorities that happen to live in a "privileged" region, but are still unjustly discriminated against.Why not exclude people that have careers or nice jobs? Why not only include students?Rather than stereotype an entire group/class/or region of people and continue to proliferate and promote the hate?I get it. It's not fair that these other companies are excluding certain regions. Some social justice warrior needs to step in and make it right.

author: UlToPri
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 07:59:06 pm
content: Quote from: tzok onTodayat 07:48:22 PMThis is exactly the problem I see, too. What's with the people in a land which is covered but are not allowed because of one of the other terms in Keysights Terms & Conditions?Tom

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:01:57 pm
content: Also, what about countries that have their own separate contests to win:[quote = Keysight]Australia will have their own independent contest (not sweepstakes) beginning 1-March. Tune in then for details![\quote]

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:16:18 pm
content: Your forum Dave so do as you think best but could I offer an idea.All Members, 6+ months and 20+ posts that don't have a DSO. Too hard ?

author: TNb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:39:56 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 16, 2017, 07:36:33 pmAre you really saying it here or do I just don't get the sarcasm? Not sure if I misunderstood your post or it is a first appearance of SJW here. Hope its the former

author: TheDane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:05:59 pm
content: Quote from: voltlog on February 16, 2017, 09:53:14 amNo. (And Yes, on the everyone participating part)Rules are rules, and apparently they are made for a reason. What those reasons might be, well... Fight!__________________________________________________________________________________On another channel:- Are you a WINNER!- Are you a DESIGNER?are you in it for the competition - are are you in it for the scope, and the awesomeness a new scope gives you.Me, I don't care - Denmark is on the list,- 5 scopes a day, and/or a few (from down under) there, it's winning and getting one that counts. Good imaginary values, hard to do something real about besides spending time hoping.What I wonder about is when my karma counter overflows, and I get upgraded from 1.4 inch floppy and noisy fan to USB andBest of luck

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:24:37 pm
content: Hello Daniel,Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on February 16, 2017, 04:13:03 pmjust out of curiousity: can you give us an example, which laws in Belgium prohibits Keysight from including Belgíum into the scope month?I'm just wondering, since all this law stuff is a mysterium to me.Thanks and regards,Andreas

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:29:28 pm
content: @ Dave:I know, it is a bit off-topic, but I'd like to ask you a favour:When you are doing the full review of this scope, is it possible, that you'll do a short comparision with the Rohde & Schwarz HMO 1232 scope you have?Would be great and really appreciated.Thanks and regards,Andreas

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 12:05:29 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 16, 2017, 06:03:57 pmHi Sinisa, I asked the same question when we were planning. Basically the voucher becomes a prize and is legally worth that 99% $ value, so it only buys you $10 less in prize value and all of the same legal complications are in play.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 12:06:20 am
content: It would be nice to know the relative odds. How many people enter the Keysight drawing? I suspect many more than the EEVblog forum drawing.If so you would be penalizing the forum members who are in Keysight eligible countries. Is that fair?Also, since you found these in the dumpster, winners will not be liable for taxes - unlike the Keysight direct scopes.I don't expect I'd win one regardless but for the reasons above I think all Forum members should be eligible.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 12:14:21 am
content: Quote from: BU508A on February 16, 2017, 11:24:37 pmHi Andreas,Thanks for asking, I wish there was a simple answer.I don't know off the top of my head. A number of countries (and/or USA states) require that a cash bond be posted to the country/state worth the total value of the prize. That's out of the question for us, imagine trying to do that for a dozen countries. Some countries have limits on who can run sweepstakes (local only, individual only, gov't only, etc.). Some countries have maximum prize values per individual winner, some have maximum values for total collective prize values. Is it considered gambling, if so do you need a license and do you have to pay a cut of the prize to the government? Is it an online contest or offline contest? How is the drawing being done, is there a gov't auditor, etc. The list of possible options is quite long.It's also all "mysterium" to me, but I do trust that our legal team did include as many countries as possible.Quote from: mtdoc on February 17, 2017, 12:06:20 amWe don't give away numbers and odds, but we definitely get a lot of entrants.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 12:15:54 am
content: Quote from: b_force on February 16, 2017, 01:13:52 pmSee my answer about Belgium. But, you can always contact your local government representative (who make the laws). Believe me, if we could include all of everyone we absolutely would.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 01:54:23 am
content: If there are 5 units, maybe a couple could be limited that way,Just like one has been limited to YouTube commenters.Maybe even one could be limited to Brisbane.I need it for all my stupid Arduino & Pi stuff.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 03:11:45 am
content: In regards to Australia, what are the laws that excludes us from the official Keysight comp?

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 03:39:08 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on February 17, 2017, 03:11:45 amI was wondering that too, prizes are tax exempt here.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 04:44:35 am
content: Off topic and language warning.After thorough testing of the Youtube random comment selector program that Dave might use I've found that it seems to work perfectly well, seriously I didn't cheat or edit the first picture below but I do have a bloody sore index finger, it did throw up a couple of weird comments though with no name on one and the other we won't even talk about, nor the Siglent banners for that matter.Youtube Random Comment Picker.http://www.sandracires.com/en/client/youtube/random.htm

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 04:56:38 am
content: Samgab did win the same draw twice within in twenty minutes so it was probably rigged or something.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 05:58:54 am
content: Quote from: djos on February 17, 2017, 03:39:08 amThat is something for entrants - the promoters will have other hoops to jump through.Another thing is that things fall under state control - so it won't be one law for the country you would have to comply with - but one for each state. This could end up being lot of hard work just sorting it out - and then you would have multiple compliance conditions.But I'm not a lawyer, so the details are something upon which I cannot comment.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 06:06:04 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 16, 2017, 01:48:45 pmThat only talks to the basics as to whether such a promotion can be run - and what an entrant might expect.It does NOT address the specific compliance requirements of the promoter. These may be simple - or they might be a nightmare.

author: dwpatter53
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 09:19:25 am
content: Where are the majority of your forum members from?Will you be excluding then if you go for people excluded from scope giveaway?Dave

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 09:25:48 am
content: Quote from: [member=98969]rt on February 17, 2017, 01:54:23 amCurrently that one is 1 in 7053 chanceOdds are much better as a Patreon supporter.I'm also feeling like it would be nice to give one away to a young beginner based solely on my discretion.That would leave two for the forum, which based on previous giveaways is less than 1 in 1000.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 09:55:56 am
content: It is likely I’ll upgrade to a used monochrome Tectonics, and my colour 100MHz scope already has a young fellas name on it.It’s an upgrade because it has one bung channel no matter if you swap the separate ADC boards.A 14 year old from a radio club I no longer attend, had the biggest impact on me than anything else about the club.You’d be hard pressed finding a 14yo who has wound a coil for any reason in these times I think.Quote from: EEVblog

author: Azhar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 02:14:47 pm
content: Even if the poll were for only 5 people and I am one of them, I don't think I'm gonna win!!

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 04:31:31 pm
content: Quote from: TNb on February 16, 2017, 09:39:56 pmThat would depend on the answers to my questions, omitted in your quote. It was just to illustrate a point of failed idealism, as this is sort of along the lines of affirmative action, which I guess Dave believes in by his suggesting this action, and others that would agree with it (if we dismiss the conflict of interest elephant). I kind of do not understand how EEVblog can give away a scope, but Keysight can't, but that may be just as irrelevant.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 06:28:56 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 17, 2017, 04:31:31 pmDave (an individual) giving a gift vs. Keysight (a corporation) conducting a promotion, sweepstakes, contest, or whatever a particular government classifies it as.

author: MrBungle
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 07:12:13 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on February 17, 2017, 06:28:56 pmDon't forget, they were thrown away in the dumpsterSo now technically have no value

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 07:31:52 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 17, 2017, 04:31:31 pmBecause it came from Daves dumpster.Second hand too, of course.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 08:37:47 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on February 17, 2017, 06:28:56 pmI'm considering Dave and the contest is more than just about an individual... Dave is the EEVblog, the website, the YT channel, and the many other things he does. All that generates revenue and profit. He should be acting at least as some sort of company. Self employed, OK. I'm thinking he pays taxes on his profits. So company to company... size matters?But I do not live in the AU and know nothing about it's laws or how the rest of the world's laws affect these things.I was not aware of where the scopes came from or the contest at all beyond reading this topic.But now I have the idea that Keysight should just ship their contest scopes to Dave's dumpster and let him run their contest. Everyone wins!

author: palindrom71
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 09:01:19 pm
content: Dave, you decide.Knowing my luck in such a contests, my chances are slim AFIt's very nice that Keysight is giving those away, but I still remember last contest, when I sacrificed my time to prepare video clip and had zero chances of winning, because it wasn't about the clip in the endI got discouraged enough not to bother this year

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 10:22:01 pm
content: Quote from: palindrom71 on February 17, 2017, 09:01:19 pmI'm sorry to hear that! We've changed the contest this year to be a panel decision instead of a crowd vote (more details 1-Mar). Because we all know how that went.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 11:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on February 17, 2017, 10:22:01 pmAnd guess who's on the panelI will accept an original Alan Bean painting as a *cough*

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 12:04:26 am
content: The poll is a good guide and very close at this point but I wondered if it could perhaps be interpreted the wrong way by some due to the number of people voting from particular regions, that is if there are way more people from eligible countries able to vote then the balance might be somewhat out of whack.

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 12:08:17 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 16, 2017, 09:01:57 pmIf this is true it complicates things. It might mean that if eligible countries for a Keysight giveaway were excluded Dave would logically have to exclude Australia. Which would be a shame.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 12:11:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 17, 2017, 09:25:48 amThat's actually a really great idea, despite me being personally ineligible (in my 40's and only a hobbyist), I think supporting a young engineer would be great. perhaps run it as a separate mini comp with some sort of creative element. E.g. Design a clever open source device with a bom of less than $50 AUD?

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 02:50:33 am
content: Quote from: djos on February 18, 2017, 12:11:42 amLike djos, I also think this is a good idea (I too would be ineligible as I'm at the 'wrong end' of my life cycle - much as I wouldlovea digital scope). It would really give a boost to a budding EE

author: palindrom71
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 07:31:27 am
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on February 17, 2017, 10:22:01 pmI believe this is the best way forward.

author: nimda-eev
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 12:50:04 pm
content: A fair change for everybody!

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 01:23:33 pm
content: I think it would be fair to those, who are not covered by Keysight.And my country is covered by Keysight

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 04:49:05 am
content: I think whatever Dave decides will be fair. I like the idea of giving one away to a young hobbyist, that would be awesome.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 07:27:32 am
content: So how do I enter this competitoon? Or do we need to wait for poll to close?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 12:45:10 pm
content: Not announced yet.Keep checking the "Contests & Events" sub board.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 04:42:27 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 19, 2017, 12:45:10 pmTearing my hair out in anticipation (and Idon'thave much to spare!)

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 05:01:05 am
content: I am new to the forum, but from my point of view everyone on the forum enters no matter where they live and who ever wins wins, no one is left out.How you get past the cost for a person not in the contest area getting the meter is the hard part.Tax and duty is a pain.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 06:45:13 am
content: i voted don't care because i don't want to win , but my next option would be no - so everyone should be able to participate.btw... i don't want to win anything worth more than 350euro... because otherwise i could simply buy it... if you win anything more in value than 350euro you pay the following in Slovakia (member of the EU btw...)1. 19% tax "tax from winning"2. 14% health insurance (don't ask me why - but it's like that and it's incredibly stupid)3. 19% tax "standard income taxation" (because the win adds up to your yearly income)4. 25% "social insurance" (because the win adds up to your yearly income)that adds up to something like ~ 77% , so in other words... if you don't want to break the law and "hide" your winning from the tax bureau , then you rather don't want to win.and of course if it's from outside of EU, then add 20% VAT and approx 3% import customs duties... and it's 100% ! so no, i don't want to win a scope, i would rather buy it when i will need a new scope

author: MrBungle
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 07:47:41 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 20, 2017, 06:45:13 amEveryone CAN participate.If Dave does choose to restrict eligibility, then they must be eligible to enter for the 125 scopes Keysight is giving away (which they are very likely going to do anyway)Everyone is covered.Of Dave's five scopes:one is up for grabs on Youtube -with no restrictionone is up for grabs to a supporter -with no country restrictionone is likely to be age restricted so possibly going to a young beginner/student, no other restriction that I am aware of.And now for the subject of this poll:one (maybe two?) is for the forum giveaway, so *might* be restricted to only those countries/states that arenot eligibleto enter for the 125 scopes available in the Keysight giveaway....Simplez.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 08:29:30 am
content: Wow that is a tight poll now! I'd say go with your gut Dave!

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 09:25:02 am
content: Quote from: imidis on February 20, 2017, 08:29:30 amDon't forget to adjust for population size!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 12:39:47 pm
content: Dave will take all this on board - and will decide how to run things. He has done it before and has taken steps to find fairness, so I have every confidence he will do a decent job of it.

author: SnotKoglen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 04:00:46 pm
content: How about one scope for the excluded users and one for the included users and the third follows the poll. (Which by the way is ridiculously close. 3 vote gap.)

author: Faith
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 04:34:18 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 20, 2017, 06:45:13 am

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 05:17:27 pm
content: Quote from: voltlog on February 16, 2017, 09:53:14 amWhy would it be 'wrong'?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 03:12:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 21, 2017, 05:17:27 pmYou must first accept the premise that the Keysight scope giveaway is wrong because some regions are excluded. Then that wrong would be righted by holding another contest and excluding the regions that were not initially excluded.It's like this. Nancy brings candy to school and she gives it only to her friends. Well, a teacher sees this and notices all the crying kids not getting candy. That must be a wrong so the teacher decides to buy candy and give it only to those kids who are not Nancy's friend, which would normally be a wrong too. But this way, all the kids have candy! See how right it is?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 10:49:45 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 17, 2017, 09:25:48 amIMHO that would be a very good thing to do! I was reading this thread to see if someone already had -sort of- suggested this option. Especially for someone who normally can't afford this kind of equipment it can easely be a life/career changer.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 12:43:11 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 22, 2017, 10:49:45 pmKeith Fenner and the machining society put on a What's in Your Box contest and have given a fully stocked machinist box to a few young apprentices. I think one of them actually works at the Rolls Royce plant as an apprentice. MrCrispin - he has youtube.... Something like that...Here's a site, in case you searched:http://turnwrightmachineworks.com/whats-in-your-box-the-giveaway-project/

author: palindrom71
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:20:00 pm
content: C'mon, who would like to get something found in trash bin anyway?I would.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:22:10 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 22, 2017, 03:12:00 pmBut the assumption there is that this would equalize the odds for all. That is not the case. Surely there are many, many more entrants to the Keysight direct giveaway.Maybe reserve just one scope for Keysight excluded countries only?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 07:49:05 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 23, 2017, 06:22:10 pmNow you are suggesting a very difficult solution to determine. I'm sure the Keysight giveaway will have many more entrants, especially if restricted. Keysight, however, is giving away 5 scopes per day for the whole month. Dave is giving away how many scopes? You'd have to calculate actual odds of winning, which would be difficult as it is a moving target, but not impossible if there were some cooperation... And then what can you do to even the odds? Only select the right mix of regions or limit the actual number of entrants. What if the odds were actually up-side-down?

author: Lafy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 07:15:13 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 23, 2017, 07:49:05 pmWhen you lose a contest are you comforted by the odds you had of winning? I think the odds are somewhat irrelevant. It seems to me the way to make things fair is to wait until the Keysight giveaway is over and exclude the 125 winners. If N people enter the Keysight giveaway they each have a 125/N chance of winning (more or less, depending on how many times each person enters) and the people from ineligible countries have 0 chance, but once the giveaway is over N-125 people are in the same boat with 0 chance of winning.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 06:36:17 pm
content: Quote from: Lafy on February 24, 2017, 07:15:13 amThe problem with 'odds' is that it is something abstract and not really realized (you either win or loose), but they are still real. I think you truncated the situation. After the contest is over, we are not talking about all the people that have 0 chance of winning, we are talking about the people that should have what kind of chance to win the continuation of the (similar) contest by Dave. It's not over yet on April 1st.So, is it fair for the N-125 to get yet another chance to win or should they be excluded because they have already had their chance and should not get a second chance.I would look at it this way. The contest involves the infinite population of Earth and the one martian on Mars. Mars is excluded in the first contest. The question is, should Earth be excluded from the second contest? Does that make things fair? I do not think so. What if Mars had 2 martians, 3, half of Earth, or equal population of Earth. Maybe only if the populations were equal would such an adjustment be "fair". Would it be fair (to the martian) if the second contest only excluded the winners from the first? Well, that's not fair either because, in a practical sense, the Earthlings all still had twice the odds of the Martian (if the contest giveaways were equal).So neither adjustment seems fair either to the martian or to the earthlings to me.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 07:34:28 pm
content: Can this go back on topic?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 07:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 24, 2017, 07:34:28 pmHow is that not on topic? Besides, what is the topic anyway? Are we supposed to discuss the Keysight 1000X Giveaway or Dave's contest?I thought we were talking about whether the contest should be limited. How do you determine that? Darts, statistics, discuss odds and such things? Probably the discussion is just a side show anyway and the determination will be by the popular vote.What else is there to discuss that is ON topic?

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 08:29:58 pm
content: Seems silly to exclude the majority of forum users

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:59:17 pm
content: Quote from: Lafy on February 24, 2017, 07:15:13 amI like that idea.Although it would mean waiting until April and perhaps Keysight requires Dave to give them away during "scope month".

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 12:29:42 am
content: Quote from: apelly on February 24, 2017, 08:29:58 pmThere are 196 countries in the world. KS managed to choose 18 of these for the contest.Everyone from those countries are free to enter to the contest. They probably already registered their wife, all the kids and the dog for the contest. And they will have some two magnitude higher chance to win a scope.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 11:22:19 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 26, 2017, 12:29:42 amThat's only true if people have the same amount of (easy) access to the internet.Which is definitely and actually not the case.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 01:46:43 am
content: Quote from: b_force on February 26, 2017, 11:22:19 pmPeople's access to the internet is not a constraint in theireligibilityto enter the giveaway. It is a secondary factor that relates to their physicalabilityto do so.The issue of eligibility is one that they simply cannot overcome. However, if eligible, they DO have control over their ability to enter. Yes, there may be some inconvenient logistics involved, but they do have the opportunity to act. Certainly this exercise will be onerous for some - and they may choose to consider it more trouble than it's worth - but that istheirdecision.For those people, Keysight has allowed them to participate and they have chosen not to - for whatever reason.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 02:51:13 am
content: Just doing a bit of background on the Keysight competition... and made me think about Dave's competition idea...So, playing devil's advocate here, if you choose to run a competition and only Patreon subscribers can enter.. does that change the legality?ie "No purchase necessary to enter" etc you often see on competitions.http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Businesses/Advertising_and_marketing/Special_offers_and_competitions.pagethe whole thing is a bit of a grey area.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 09:41:27 am
content: For Dave it's pretty easy, so long as he's acting on his own and not as someone elses agent. Even though he has a global audience, he only has a small physical presence in one place. So for the most part he only has to worry about contest laws that are local to him, even if the winner lives elsewhere. The worst other jurisdictions can do is confiscate the prize, if they choose to spend the effort to intercept it. That rarely happens, although there could be tax/custom charges for the recipient.For international corporations it's another matter. They have physical offices around the world, which means they need to respect all the contest laws for most of the countries/jurisdictions they offer the promotion in. For instance in the USA, while there are federal laws, there are also 50 states each with their take on exactly what is an illegal consideration or promotion.Note I'm using "contest" generically to cover all the things giveaways get classified as, be it sweepstakes or gambling. This whole subject is pretty well covered by internet articles....just start searching.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 11:36:19 am
content: Quote from: aargee on February 28, 2017, 02:51:13 amIt's not a competition. I found a used scope in a dumpster, I already have one, so figured I'd just give it away.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 12:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 28, 2017, 11:36:19 amTell you what Dave, just to make it simpler for you (so you don't have to make any difficult decisions) I'll lighten your load and take it off your hands for you!.I'm nice like that - it may cause me some inconvenience picking it up but I'm always ready to help a friend out.

author: bji900
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 03:08:28 pm
content: I would like to win a scope and the more chances that I have the better. It is like the age old argument "I dont like snow, well you live in Canada, so..., so you can move to Florida, but I dont want to..., well then stop complaining.)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 03:32:41 pm
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on February 28, 2017, 12:28:37 pmPerhaps Dave would not want to inconvenience you like that. I could pick it up - and it wouldn't be an inconvenience at all.

author: naldo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 04:11:57 pm
content: You're voted !

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 04:12:22 pm
content: Hi Dave,would it be allowed to cast an entry/vote - but designate the vote towards a good purpose? Like a local school in your area?

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 11:48:56 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 28, 2017, 03:32:41 pmLOL - I'm sure I can live with the inconvenience thanks Brumby, wouldn't want to put you out at all.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 02:18:51 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 16, 2017, 09:17:11 amWhen you are to announce the winners in a live stream, could you please schedule it? On YouTube?

author: Blue
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 10:39:24 pm
content: Yeah,I would love to win one Dave!Thanks in advance.Cheers,

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 11:32:28 pm
content: I am not entering the contest because if I won, the scope would be stolen along the way. And if it did not get stolen, I would have to pay in taxes more than I would be willing to pay for a new scope.Also, I would not want to disclose my country - that 'privacy' alone is worth more than a brand new scope.But, I believe Dave should exclude the countries already included in Keysight's giveaway. They already have their chance to win one through that channel.I would also push it even further and limit the countries to those where buying such an oscilloscope would be almost impossible for a young student or freshly graduated engineer. In that way, instead of adding one more scope - or a slightly better scope than was going to be bought anyway - the giveaway can really make a difference.Perhaps using income per capita as an indicator could help. Like, make eligible only those countries where the scope would cost more than X months of average salary.By the way, average income in Antarctica is four penguin eggs.(No, my country would be excluded, too).Now the whole western world hates me.