Retire the blinking LED! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 01:45:34 am
content: Saw this on RS DesignSpark:"Why we need to retire the blinking LED as the entry into embedded programming"https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/why-we-need-to-retire-the-blinking-led-as-the-entry-into-embedded-programmingQuoteHands off my blinky!

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 01:58:05 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on November 28, 2019, 01:45:34 amNow that is well put!"Compared to this, the classic LED blinking example of the embedded world looks as feeble as a gesture of a man who just woke up from a coma and is told to blink once if he is conscious."Blinking a LED and waking from a coma. Both represent proof of life.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 01:58:51 am
content: What rubbish!"Hello, Cloud" in just 12 lines of Python. Give me a break.Code:wifi.link("SSID",wifi.WIFI_WPA2,"password")Right. Nothing at all can go wrong there, leaving you scratching your head whether you got the WPA2 password wrong, or the connection to the ESP32 isn't working, or you didn't actually manage to download your code to the board, or ...Code:thing = iot.Device("lJilHMrRU39spSMoJATGdeVs","maker:4JQTMUt5kNoqW1VeVoeEuiyKAFik6Nek8pDYkGD",http_client.HttpClient)Ho Lee Fuk.Does he remember that to type into each new program?We don't use "Hello, World" because it's it's an awesome display of programming prowess -- we use it because it's the simplest thing that can possibly work and prove that our compiler, linker, library etc are in working order and we uttered the right incantations.Same with blinky, except it's even simpler.If a mainframe or PC programmer *could* hook a simple LED to a CPU pin somewhere and write blinky as the first program instead of "Hello, World" then they *would*.And get off my lawn.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 02:18:34 am
content: Ah ah ah. I admit that was a good one. A good bad one.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 03:00:51 am
content: This is the stupidest thing I've heard. But to be expected from people advocating Python on MCUs.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:40:08 am
content: Pfft... So much wrong in such a short blog post!Failing to take into account "tool setup" as part of the "blinking LED" experience.thinking of Python as an embedded language.Most of all: thinking that cloud-connected devices are the majority of embedded applications.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:58:49 am
content: If a biochemist managed to create life from a bunch of off-the-shelf chemicals, and the first thing it did was to blink its one solitary eye, it's still alive.I don't expect it to immediately write poetry, do the washing-up or stand for election.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 09:04:41 am
content: Whoever wrote that clearly does not understand micro controller development. But if it was an RS person writing it what do you expect? they can't even sell stuff anymore.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 12:55:12 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on November 29, 2019, 08:58:49 amOh I don't know, against our current set of candidates it would probably get my vote!Yea, noting to see here except IOT true believer thinking that some off the shelf board preconfigured with micropython and a mess of IOT libs counts as embedded dev.To be fair to RS, they did get me a couple of parts ordered yesterday, here this morning, so they do serve a purpose, but yea, stop blogging and fix the effin web site already, look to Digikey to see how it should be done.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 01:26:49 pm
content: I have filled surveys out twice for RS, twice a nice man has rang me back to discuss. 2 years later the best description for their site is still "fucked". i rang up a few weeks ago to explain that I could not order a 45 line BOM off them because it was not a useful use of the 2 days of anguish that it would take me so I was going to order from the US and god help us if we leave the EU.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 07:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on November 28, 2019, 01:58:51 amGive me twelve lines of python written by any man and I will find something in them which will hang him.CardinalRichelieuCerebus

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:03:07 pm
content: RS are still useful, at least they are quicker than fleabay, if they actually have it in stock, and nobody locally has the same or a similar replacement part. But then, my biggest order there came to 6 items.......

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:06:11 pm
content: So basically the article is a rant in favour of python while managing to admit at the end that it is different from C. Basically classical page stuffing or "bit stuffing".

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:07:21 pm
content: Hey, count your blessings. At least they weren't ranting on and on and on about Forth.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:08:17 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 29, 2019, 08:03:07 pmYes I use them when I want something fast as they deliver to where i work within an hour of us opening. I expect the assemblers just send RS a BOM and RS deal with it but for buying development parts they are a nightmare as they refuse to enable the stock as part of their search. They made a half arsed attempt that results in the entire site not having anything if you use the in stock option.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 08:30:27 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 29, 2019, 07:56:33 pmNo one expects the French Inquisition!

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 05:52:53 pm
content: I haven't read the article yet. Is the amusement factor worth being subjected to its stupidity?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 06:35:09 pm
content: the problem here is that the big line between bare metal programming, custom PCB design and taking off the shelf circuit boards running processors that practically run an OS and programming them is being pretended to just be a thin one.I don't know, maybe these people that need to break out a 600Mhz 32 bit ARM running linux are feeling a bit incapable before those that just bare metal it. Fact is it is horses for courses and the statement is just a sign of a huge amount of ignorance. Hands off my blinky and just accept that i am doing electronics and you are doing programming. They go hand in hand, one will not replace the other.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 04:41:11 pm
content: Blinky for me goes back way before I ever heard of a microcontroller (and maybe the only thing at the time that could be even considered one might have been the 8049). My first computer used the CA CDP1802 CPU, which happened to have a handy single pin putput, that in all simple examples, was connected to an LED. Each of the different kits available at the time, the first program they had you type in (either using toggle switches or a hex keypad) was 7B 00 which turned on the LED. I still have this machine, and still remember the entire code which turns turns the LED on and off as a toggle when you press the Input key.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 05:12:49 pm
content: Just to add - of course, blinking LEDs in itself is just about setting up your dev tools and writing a minimal test prog that will show you the whole chain is working, with an easy to prove result. You can do other very basic things for the same goal.The key here is 1/ setting up your toolchain and 2/ testing it in a minimal way so as not to introduce too many parameters.Two things are "wrong" with this article. First, the guy assumes/promotes the fact that industry-standard and proven languages/tools are obsolete, and that the future of embedded development is interpreted languages with a huge stack of libraries, like Python. This is just silly and 'clickbait' material. The two serve different purposes, and the latter are not replacing standard, compiled languages any time soon. Saying this is even very misleading for young people. And second, as others have pointed out, the example given is completely opposite of the idea of a "minimal test", thus introducing many parameters - too many: if it doesn't "work", where is the problem? If you're connecting to a network via WiFi, it doesn't matter if it's just a couple lines of Python (the hard part being all hidden). If it doesn't work, it could be for a myriad of reasons, including reasons not having anything to do with the platform you're testing.But this article should just be seen as "tech journalism", nothing else.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 06:12:38 pm
content: i take it you use "journalism" in a not very serious way

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 08:12:23 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 04, 2019, 05:12:49 pmAgreed. Blinking a LED is a simple way to verify your tools and board are working at a minimal level.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2019, 02:58:40 pm
content: Quotetldr; will write clickbait articles for money.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2019, 04:27:55 pm
content: Here ya go