Emptiness - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 11:02:11 am
content: Oh it echoes in here, is there anyone else around?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:18:33 pm
content: Quote from: nixiefreqq on September 01, 2022, 11:50:21 amStrange thing is that the email notification displays the text "I hear something" but the text does not appear on the thread post?

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:30:04 pm
content: Come on guys... stop with the antagonizing. We should take a "Wait and see" attitude towards the"Enter at your own risk!"warning at the top of the space... if we can expect the complainers to take responsibility for coming there, even though they were warned... that's a compromise.If Dave is unwilling to give us a real OT space... lets at leastseeif the chain-link fence he put up around the oldTEAnonymousstronghold is enough make the whiners whine somewhere else.Otherwise, they're just gonna move in and take over.mnem

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 03:41:48 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on September 01, 2022, 01:30:04 pmI would contribute content here, but I'm waiting for you to convince bitseeker to move the thread to this subforum.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 04:28:13 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on September 01, 2022, 01:30:04 pmWhat me antagonize, perish the thought, just wanted to be the very first to post anything thats allI must say that it is far easier with the old emojis.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 05:45:49 pm
content: Still single digit.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 07:58:14 pm
content: you fookers.... just agitatin' for the sake of agitatin'...mnem(but thanks for the chuckle; I needed it)

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 08:18:03 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on September 01, 2022, 07:58:14 pmyeah, I know you only too well

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 08:16:00 am
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on September 01, 2022, 03:41:48 pmI think I read that bitseeker has no intention of moving the thread, and doesn't care either way. So either the majority here decide they want it moved, or it simply remains as-is.Decide amoung yourself, I rarely post in TEA, so I have no personal opinion on it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 08:17:40 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on September 01, 2022, 01:30:04 pmHow is your new space a "real OT space"? It basically has the same OT hot-topic rules as here.I offered you your own moderator that you guy would elect and your own space to be left alone. Nothing more I can do.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 01:34:28 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on September 01, 2022, 01:30:04 pmGo vote!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/important-poll-should-there-be-an-off-topic-section/It might even be better than your new home that has topic rules

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 12:55:37 pm
content: Well, this is confusing... I shall ask bitseeker to move the old TEA thread here, as a favour to the regular contributors that wish to continue using the EEVBlog forums.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 01:45:57 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 10, 2022, 12:55:37 pmPerhaps instead of pouring fuel on the embers of this issue you should just give it a rest.You have in the last few days tried to claim this which is a LIE 'In point of fact all are unhappy at having had to leave, and your ill-informed attempts to ascribe such base and juvenile motivations are quite far from the mark.'That MINORITY's inability to accept even some basic conformance to the rules of the Forum WHEN ASKED by Dave without extreme belligerence is and remains the issue. Anything else is completeIn spite of what you might falsely think the thread while started by One (Bitseeker) is the joint composition of ALL and the small number of butt hurt CHILDREN are not 'the thread' but just part of it like we ALL are.Bitseeker has acted through this as he has seen best with a level of dignity and politeness and certainly doesn't need you adding to his job to move forward along his chosen path. The location is within the Forum not that important but as the original intent was a home to the suffers and aspirants of TEA as a disease and the Test Equipment section makes most sense (as it always has). Given the other few topics running currently there is unlikely to be 'special moderators' operating under 'special rules' but that is up to Dave ultimately.But both of these things in a single forum as fraught with 'but burt look over here they can do X' and are a really bad idea.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 01:55:59 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 10, 2022, 12:55:37 pmWhy? I just can't see any good reason.How is that doing a "favour" for anyone? ....Thatis confusing.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 02:45:30 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 10, 2022, 12:55:37 pmPlease don't.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 03:50:56 pm
content: How many more threads about the TEA thread are we going to have?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 04:03:14 pm
content: Only older Dutch members will get this oneEd.Kloonk cleanup in "Emptiness".

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 04:31:50 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on September 10, 2022, 01:45:57 pmAn interesting response. Please provide evidence if you're going to call someone a liar. And please don't resort to name calling, it lowers the tone of the debate.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 04:35:34 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 10, 2022, 01:55:59 pmWhat's confusing is having two TEA sections. Either the original should be moved here, or this one should be deleted. I'm easy either way.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 01:36:45 am
content: I'm happy to walk away from this little backwater. There hasn't been any TEA content posted here anyway - just musings and reflections.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 07:47:06 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 10, 2022, 04:31:50 pmStatement of FACT it is a LIE if it was name calling I would have used LIAR but I didn't!So lets revue and be 'generous' and call them alternative factsLet me just list the Number of Members and contributors to the TEA thread that 'having had to leave' or were Forced from here by permanent bans or blocks to ongoing contributions in that thread or elsewhere in the forum.Ok so after that extensive list everyone can now draw there own conclusions about the prior post of mine and your claims.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 08:42:49 am
content: A big gap of "emptiness" to fit the title

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 09:47:33 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on September 11, 2022, 07:47:06 amSaying something that someone said is a lie, is calling them a liar. That is a simple fact. Referring to people as "butt hurt CHILDREN" is name calling. This also is a simple fact.Since you have failed to provide any evidence that what I said is a lie, I consider it pure flamebaiting, which I am far too mature and intelligent to respond to in the wayI believeyou want. Here is a list of people thatI personally know are unhappyat being made to feel so unwelcome in TEAnonymous that they had to leave, for their own wellbeing:mnementhbd139Cerebusbitseeker (the TEAnonymous OP, lest we forget that little fact, and despite your claims to the contrary, it is within his purview to request the thread be moved, locked, or deleted)Saskiamed6753Also I have observed that there are several people who used to contribute in TEAnonymous, but now only in Discord and .io, though I shan't name them because I haven't spoken to them personally about why.Then there's the people that stayed, but have drastically reduced contribution to the TEAnonymous thread, such as myself. Again, I shan't name others, as I haven't spoken to them personally about why.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 09:54:57 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 11, 2022, 09:47:33 amBecause the close friends we have built these last few years are somewhere else and whenever you wish to keep friends you follow them so to keep in touch. We've never met but are family.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:22:07 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 11, 2022, 09:47:33 amSo let's get this clear grown adults who stamped their feet kicked and screamed in the Aisle of TEA over weeks following a simple removal of some posts and generally CAUSED the issue to blow up out of all proportion because 'their' (In there inflated opinions) sandpit faced a request from Dave are the victimsDon't put Bitseeker's name in your list he was not one of the 'children' here and if I was him I would be more than a bit annoyed at you being lumped in with them on a list by you. There is nothing he has done that goes anywhere close to the childish rantings of others. Bitseeker owns his content and can if he chooses move the Thread but he does not own mine and anyone else content so you should again not ascribe power that doesn't exist.However those that 'CHOSE' to leave was absolutely not as you keep making up 'made to leave' in fact as far as I am aware ALL are still members here and most have posted a LOT after the initial content moderation and removal. You continuing to attempt to say otherwise just reinforces my earlier post.So yep CHILDISH.It was you in the TEA thread stirring crap about the posts of others being off topic and then promoting 'alternate facts' about the 'victims' FIRST so either own your stirring of the pot (flamebaiting if you must) that you started or give it a rest.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:27:48 am
content: With AVGresponding here 100%Beanflying your entire attitude and presence is one reason I don’t want to participate now. You’ve been a top tier dick about it from day one. What do you have to gain?We moved on which is fine. Now you’re strutting around like a demented pigeon making victory coos over a battle you stepped into when it was already a pile of corpses. This entire attitude is endemic on the forum which is perpetually bombed with asshattery and trolling on just about every decent thread.Please get a life. Surely you’re old enough to know better.Mods please take this dude as why I don’t want to participate.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:43:07 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 11, 2022, 10:27:48 amClearly you and others haven't moved on and even though AVG singled you out on his list here you are defending the bad behaviour in the thread.There is no victory here at all just sadness and pissed off that YOU and others caused this because you couldn't accept some basic guidance on content balance. The Asshattery is on those who ramped up and railed against that. One day maybe you might be able to see that looking back but meanwhile you are no victim!The level of total daily dribble in TEA was totally out of balance and as I have stated clearly it was never just 'on topic' (whatever that is in the thread) but circa 80% dribble is way off discussing TEA.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:45:30 am
content: I don’t negotiate with trolls.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:47:15 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on September 11, 2022, 10:22:07 amYou seem incapable of accepting demonstrable facts, and prefer instead to cling to a set of Trumpian style "alternative facts". There's only one of us shouting and stamping their feet (metaphorically) here, and it isn't me.As for stirring the pot, I have no intention to do so; however, I will always challenge untruths and misconceptions when they directly affect my life, either physical or virtual.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:55:25 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 11, 2022, 10:27:48 amDid you ever add him your ignore list? If not, why not?Not trying to be a smart arse here, just genuinely curious why if you found someones posts so intolerable that you don't want to participate here, why not use the Ignore User feature?I don't use the feature myself, but it's there and people do use it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:57:22 am
content: I just tried the Ignore User feature and it works just fine.I will unblock beanflying of course, it was just a test.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:57:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 11, 2022, 10:55:25 amMostly because I had no idea it existed. Will play with it. Thanks for the heads up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:58:53 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 11, 2022, 10:57:42 amIt's not obvious, you have to go to your profile and then another tab:Ideally there would be an additional option that eliminates their posts entirely, but I kinda like that it hides their posts but still lets you know it's there if you want to see it.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 10:59:51 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 11, 2022, 10:57:42 amBut then you will miss out on all the fun

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 11:00:07 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 11, 2022, 10:47:15 amYou bitched and moaned about the use of Lie and now you want to bitch about 'alternate facts' to describe them.You are not calling out any untruths at all you are creating them, take two steps back and think about if the Children had have copped the rap on the knuckles and just got on with a simple request where this would be.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 11:10:53 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on September 11, 2022, 11:00:07 amI don't appreciate your attitude in this thread, please just stop.Some people felt they had to leave, some people stayed and still enjoy the TEA thread. It's done.And no one seems to want TEA moved here, and no one seems to want to use the new section I was asked to create. So I'll probably just shut it down shortly and move the couple of threads back to Test Equipment unless anyone has any objections?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 11:11:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 11, 2022, 10:58:53 amGot it. Thanks for that. Peaceful life ahead!Agree there should be a show it optionally thing.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 11:24:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 11, 2022, 11:10:53 amI think most will agree that this thread does not need to be preserved for the future.The other one about the "constitution" you might like to take parts out of it to augment the general rules, but if not that is fine too.Then just hit the delete button

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 11:33:33 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 11, 2022, 11:24:08 amI'd be more in favour of just locking them, rather than allowing a rewriting of history by deletion.

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 12:11:38 pm
content: Not happy with what I read on .io last night, certainly don't want to seeallmy TEA content copied to another forum.https://groups.io/g/tea/topic/93211143?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0%3A%3ACreated%2C%2C%23TEAdministration%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C93211143%2Cct%25253D1David

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 12:38:49 pm
content: Quote from: factory on September 11, 2022, 12:11:38 pmThey are already moving from groups.io to another forum?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 12:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 11, 2022, 11:24:08 amNope, I won't delete posts. If you forget, that's a big part of what caused all this problem to begin with.

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 12:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 11, 2022, 12:38:49 pmNo idea, but I thought the .io was a temporary solution, but from what I've read they can't seem to decide on a more permanent solution, I'm not on any .io forums and probably won't join another forum if they ever set one up, just don't have the time to contribute to yet another forum.I do read it in exactly the same way as the original TEA thread here, all in one pagehttps://groups.io/g/tea/messages?p=created%2C1%2C%2C1%2C2%2C0%2C0&prev=1Interesting they have incorrectly reported the death of a TE collector last night;https://groups.io/g/tea/topic/93608144?p=%2C%2C%2C20%2C0%2C0%2C0%3A%3ACreated%2C%2C%23Events%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C93608144%2Cct%253D1&ct=1Richard is very much alive and is actually downsizing his collection, I can't comment on .io for obvious reasons;https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=193112https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1498727#post1498727David

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 01:43:39 pm
content: AFAIK it’s still at evaluating the options phase. I am in no way an authority on where we are with that just a technical complainantTo note the future of TEA discussion has involved more than just a forum system which is where some of the misunderstanding lies in where to move it to and host it. This also makes a mockery of some of the other arguments as that is purely a scope and capability concern rather than emotional.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 04:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 11, 2022, 12:44:15 pmAll TEA posts are not deleted.Is it possible that database still has originals?I have a recollection that it can be the case.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 04:46:07 pm
content: Quote from: factory on September 11, 2022, 12:11:38 pmAs they mention themselves there IS a copyright issue. Current terms state that the rights of any posts belong to THIS forum.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 05:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 11, 2022, 04:46:07 pmPlease let's not get into another territorial pissings contest.

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 06:17:49 pm
content: Hopefully there is no need to worry about it, just the naughty 'dragon' seems to have other ideas.Quote from: bitseeker on August 27, 2022, 05:02:02 amLast thing we need is another copy of the thread on the web, it's bad enough with bots copying everything, it makes web research a pain, due to some content repeated over & over.David

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 06:47:21 pm
content: Some clarifications:Firstly, the "backups" are not backups but naive scrapes. They were taken due to the WebNX fire that took out the EEVblog forum for a while. We figured that it was a good method of preserving content which was generated should the worst happen one day. Everything is ephemeral on the Internet.Secondarily, transferring content, caching and archiving it is not a copyright issue. If it was it would be illegal to use web browsers and archive.org, google and Microsoft would have been sued off the Internet ages ago. A couple of people tried this on in the early 2000's and looked like wallies. Broke wallies.Thirdly, there is no copyright issue with reproducing the content elsewhere. While EEVblog asserts rights to the content posted, that does not mean the authors do not retain rights to it as well. In fact I will be reproducing some of the content I have posted here on my web site which I am 100% entitled to do. It will not be verbatim of course as it's a more formal medium but I could legally reproduce it anywhere I like.Fourthly, the only place any copyright can be asserted is in court and if anyone went to court over this they'd be a wally.But with those facts on the table, yes it doesn't make sense to reproduce it unless for some reason it disappeared. It has a negative SEO impact for both sites and doesn't really help with assigning what is where. That is originally why I suggested freezing the thread and continuing on groups.io only. For the sake of both EEVblog and TEA SEO stats only and the possibility that duplication hurts both sets of people.(some) people think this is emotionally charged but it's all logical at the end of the day

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 09:02:29 pm
content: From the rules post, it just states what you post is 'public domain', no copyright mentioned, I have no issue with members of the .io forum adding their own posts/content from here.I can't see any point for the 100k+ old posts to be added, this would just end up wasting money.QuoteDavid

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 01:08:09 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 11, 2022, 09:54:57 amGranted, we can make friends and extend our relationships beyond this kind of interaction, here. But we have to consider that the EEVBlog is not a family. It is a forum. People come here primarily to exchange ideas.Before the EEVBlog, my favorite spot on the net was theTDPRI. It is a 25 year-old 150,000-user community about almost everything I like: woodworking, metallurgy, electronics and obviously music.If you read theirrules, you will find this:OFF LIMIT SUBJECTS:Some subjects cause nothing but trouble, so no posting about:1. Politics - ZERO tolerance of anything political2. Religion3. Sex (including improper photos or videos)4. Drugs - usage, laws, legality or paraphernalia5. Current Wars or national disputes6. Gun rights or politicsAnd thenSENSITIVE SUBJECTSOn a public forum it is best not to discuss intimate and sensitive subjects.Please do not post on subjects such as Divorce, Spouse Abuse, Family Fighting, Addictions, Sexual Identity, Transgender, Psychological, Mental Heath, STDs, Sexual Dysfunction, Bankruptcy, Credit Worthiness, Eviction or othersubjects of a sensitive and intimate nature.Emphasis, mine.By the way, they have an off-topic subforum called "Bad Dog Cafe", that's why they had to create a new category called OFF-LIMIT SUBJECTS.Forums, when they get very large, they tend to encompass a wide range of topics, however, at the same time, it seems, it becomes even more impersonal, which is incompatible with what you see with a family.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 01:18:54 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 11, 2022, 06:47:21 pmThe TEA thread here will not be locked. Many people still enjoy using it every day, it is still very active.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 01:25:27 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 11, 2022, 04:46:07 pmJust clarify, the EEVblog forum has the right to host the content in-perpetuity. But other sites are free to archive it, and ultimately to host it if they wish. But I agree with others that have said having two public copies is not a good idea from an SEO and confusion point of view, and I don't know why anyone would want to do that. Just start fresh, and if you need to link to a post, just link to it here. Or if you want to quote an old post from here and discuss it elsewhere, just copy that one post as needed.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 05:23:22 am
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on September 12, 2022, 01:08:09 amAn interesting difference between the rules here and what you mentioned. SEX, for what I have seen of it in the time I have been on this forum, not a problem, where as the film industry seems to portrait nerds to always be thinking about SEXOr at least used to. Think of films like "revenge of the nerds" and "weird science"Quote from: bsfeechannel on September 12, 2022, 01:08:09 amA quite specific list of what not to post about, I must say, but these are indeed subjects that can cause disruption. But some of these have been discussed here at length without a lot of troubles.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 06:58:54 am
content: It a bit like driving a car. There are many things you can do and things you shouldn't do. Somebody who drives over the speed limit very occasionally is unlikely to get pinged. Driving the car with worse intent or negligence to others, that's a different matter.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 07:05:33 am
content: Oh Ed, now you disappoint me, I had at least expected you to say something about the SEXBut I do see your point, ill intent it not seen here that much.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 09:27:38 am
content: Quote from: factory on September 11, 2022, 12:57:19 pmThe individual bears responsibility for a post, not the groupI did indeed word it carelessly, but "the death of a kindred spirit" may well be correct: spirit can die without a person dying. Similarly "One of us is no more" was intended to indicate that there is one less person with TEA and GAS.I hope the sale goes well for the owner's sake.(BTW, thanks for PM'ing me with the post; I might well have missed it otherwise)

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 03:09:42 pm
content: Quote from: factory on September 11, 2022, 12:57:19 pmSomebody has already made the same point there.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 04:14:36 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 12, 2022, 05:23:22 amThe sex clause is there, I presume, because, unlike the EEVBlog, they used to have (don't know if they still do) prominent female users, and they wanted to avoid alienating them.They address the question more clearly with this rule:NO GIRLY OR CHEESECAKE PHOTOS:The TDPRI is a "G" rated forum. And, because this is a largely male dominated forum, "guys being guys" leads to posts containing scantily-clad women from time to time. We don't allow ANY "Hot Chick", "Girly" or "Cheesecake" photos of scantily-clad women -- with guitars or not.QuoteI find it particularly difficult to talk about TEA without mentioning Addictions, Mental Health or Bankruptcy, but the point is precisely that the EEVBlog is not too permissive to allow absolutely any kind of discussion and be in ironic need of such strict rules as the TDPRI. It's about right, in my not so humble opinion.The other point is to try and understand the dynamics of the behavior of jumbled clusters of people as forums are.