pre-heating empty saucepan then pouring kettle water in after 2-3 mins - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 03:11:30 am
content: My Mum always tells me "You'll damage the pan" when I pre-heat our (VERY OLD) aluminium poached egg pan - I leave it empty on the hob for 2-3 (usually 2) mins, whilst the kettle boils, and then gently pour in a smidge of water to cancel the "ledenfrost effect", otherwise I'd have a bubbling eruption of scalding water! (see "smarter every day" on YouTube for more on "ledenfrost effect") and then pour in the rest - NO cracks or"damaged" pan in all the years I've done this, and saves HUGE amounts of time on a halogen hob - I don't want to wait TEN mins for my water to boil when the poached eggs only take 4, thanks very much.Thoughts? PS - the aluminium pan is very thin (1mm ish) aluminium, still very pliable and can be tapped back into shape every year or so, with a soft mallet, when the underside goes slightly convex.My daily reward...

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 03:28:42 am
content: Not sure if it'll do damage or not, but why not add just a little water to the pan start with? Getting the pan above 100 degrees C is absolutely pointless since all that heat will just convert to steam; if you add a little water to prevent the pan from exceeding 100 degrees C then you're all good.

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 03:32:12 am
content: I think the logic behind your mom's words is that generally speaking cooling metal will contract as opposed to heating metal which causes expansion. If the hot metal surface is being rapidly cooled as opposed to the opposite side which stays hot (or gets hotter as it is being actively heated) then both regions will experience differential thermal expansion/contraction. The cooler region tries to contract but is constrained by the hot region which has expanded. Thus, the cooler region then experiences stress and a crack will likely form near the location of maximum stress.Now whether or not a crack occurs depends on other many factors as well such as the metal itself, geometry, thickness, etc.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 03:33:02 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on February 12, 2017, 03:28:42 amBecause that little water will draw the heat away and slow me down; I am very busy.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 05:19:51 am
content: The issue your mum is concerned about is called 'thermal shock'.I think it is less of a risk with malleable materials like copper and aluminium. If they can withstand the mechanical impact of a hammer, they can cope better with thermal shock. Also a factor will be the thickness of the material. With just 1mm of aluminium, the thermal gradient giving rise to thermal shock will not be too great.Even so, there is a risk of thermal shock.If it were me, I would see how long it takes the empty pan to reach 100ºC - and then only turn it on that length of time before the kettle boils.Do this with a thicker pot or pan - especially with a cast iron one - and you can expect to turn your one piece pan into a two piece set in not too many cycles.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 05:22:58 am
content: QuoteIf it were a reasonable person they would fill the pot with water, stick it on the largest burner, and boil it normally.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 05:41:17 am
content: Quote from: avrishuvorlaz on February 12, 2017, 03:33:02 amYou're not thinking it through. You have a factor-of-6 room for error in between the amount of water that'd reach boiling, and the amount of water that'd boil away. As long as the pot is at 100 degrees and the boiling water is at 100 degrees, the amount of 100 degree water already in the pot is completely irrelevant.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:04:14 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 12, 2017, 05:22:58 amI don't appreciate your implications, that's just rude.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 07:34:04 am
content: I have warped thin pans by pouring water in to cool them off in the sink. It's possible to crack some pans by doing what you're doing, the thermal shock rapidly cools the location where the water touches it.There is no advantage of preheating the pan anyway, it's the same amount of heat energy and will heat the water just as quickly whether you first heat up the pan and then add water, or put the water in the pan and turn on the burner. You can't change the laws of thermodynamics.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 07:36:30 am
content: The water added to the pan has just come off the boil ... in the kettle. There will be practically no time before the water in the pan is boiling again.The temperature of the (dry) pan just prior to the adding of the water will bewellin excess of 100ºC.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 08:46:17 am
content: Quote from: avrishuvorlaz on February 12, 2017, 06:04:14 amJust saying it like it is. I don't see the need to boil water as fast as possible while risking cookware. It's water, unless you need to throw it at a burglar, you can wait 2-3 minutes more.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 08:49:43 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 12, 2017, 07:34:04 am100% agree with this. Even if you don't cause physical damage due to stress, if there is a non-stick coating on the pan, you'll destroy that. Teflon starts to deteriorate at a few hundred degrees Celsius. The thicker the pan, the more chance of damage. It's particularly important for crock pots etc...Leave it on long enough and Aluminium will melt (even on a domestic cook top).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 09:00:54 am
content: Quote from: avrishuvorlaz on February 12, 2017, 03:33:02 amThat doesn't make sense. Your whole objective is to draw heat from the aluminium into the water.By heating a pan to >100C before adding water, all you are doing is wasting energy by "drawing heat into steam", humidifying the room, and possibly damaging the pan.The latter will take up your valuable time repairing the pan - or going and buying another.If it is a thin pan, then it will take negligible heat - and therefore time - to heat up either way.Measure the time taken by each method, then report back how much time you save with your technique. Go on, you know it makes sense. Ensure all conditions are the same.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 09:06:47 am
content: It wouldn't surprise me if in the old days, with substandard metal pans, doing this would crack them and so people quickly learned never to do it or they'ed have to buy a new pan.I think today the only issue is with some non-stick pans, where a rapid temp change can damage the coating.However i've also heard that pouring cold water into a hot non-stick pan helps to 'keep the coating hard' when done occasionally.so meh, not sure what to believe any more.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 09:39:15 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 12, 2017, 09:06:47 amIt helps coating coming off and exposing bare aluminium very well.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 04:05:57 pm
content: It depends on how hot the pan is getting. I'd put in just enough water that it's on the point of boiling when the kettle boils. Then add boiling water to boiling water and you're ready to go. And you used all the energy from the stove element as well as the boost from the kettle.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 11:35:16 pm
content: Folks, I think I actually shouldn't have bothered asking this, in hindsight. It's a 40 year old, thin aluminium egg poaching pan - lots of excessive analysis happening here, way too much (yes, I asked for it, I know)Thanks for all your help, maybe I'll request a thread lock now to save time and typing all round.Thank you for the replies

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 12:00:07 am
content: In the UK, gas is about four times cheaper than electricty per kWh, so I boil my water on the hob.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 12:04:36 am
content: Quote from: mc172 on February 13, 2017, 12:00:07 amNot if you live in a no gas area of England, where having gas would cost to have it installed.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 12:39:08 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 12, 2017, 04:05:57 pmBest answer!No thermal shock issues, minimal power wastage and no overall time loss (assuming a dry pan heats up to 100ºC more quickly than the jug takes to boil).

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:21:46 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 13, 2017, 12:39:08 amPedantically, it's even better than that -- you can put a little less water in the jug, since there's already some water in the pan. That will allow the jug to boil a little faster, leading to a slight timegainover the OP's current strategy.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:30:30 am
content: Even better, get one of those instant hot water taps. I'm not sure if they're available all over the world but they're reasonably common in the US. It's a small electric water heater that mounts under the sink and provides nearly boiling hot water with no waiting at all. They have a small capacity but it's enough for several cups of tea or whatever.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:43:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 02:30:30 amThat doesn't take the pan into consideration very well - and it does point to additional equipment purchase. We have been working with the equipment already in place.But it is another idea.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:46:15 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on February 13, 2017, 02:21:46 amThat observation gets bonus points!

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 03:01:04 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 02:30:30 amI've literally never seen one in the US in my life. Everybody has tank heaters, or the posh people have on demand systems. Nobody has boiling water out of the tap.Not to mention since most places have the water heating in the basement or a utility cupboard away from the sink, it takes time to bleed the system of cold water to get to the hot stuff, so a time improvement would still be impossible with a regular hot water tap unless you put prep time into that.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 03:24:12 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 03:01:04 amOn higher end new construction here in the US, I've started to see small point of load tankless water heaters being installed, instead of one large central tankless or tank unit. The idea being you only have to run cold water lines, you get instant hot water and it's more energy efficient.Previously, more expensive houses would have a recirculating system, which would constantly circulate hot water through all the hot water pipes to each load point, giving you instant hot water without the wait. As you can imagine, it's costly (you need an extra return pipe for each hot water pipe) plus the added cost of running the tank heater more often.Personally, I think the tankless point of load system is the way to go. Small tankless heaters aren't expensive and can even run off 115VAC/15A circuits, which means as long as you have a plug on the wall next to each sink you want hot water from, it wouldn't be hard to retrofit existing traditional systems. In fact, I know someone who recently did this! They even used part of the existing hot water piping to feed hot water from under the bathroom sink to the shower. They just cut and capped the part of the line that would have come from central tank. They did this in both bathrooms and also installed it in the kitchen. So they have three small tankless heaters at each place hot water is needed.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 03:46:08 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 13, 2017, 03:24:12 amOh, I don't deny their benefits. We've even considered them in the past for our house, but the fact of the matter is, most people are using 50-120 year old houses with tanked water heaters. Posher districts with new developments of course have the totally on demand system, but a lot of places still do not.Another thing is that retrofit is often VERY expensive. You can pick up a decent tank heater for 50-200 USD no sweat anywhere, yet the on demand systems are much more expensive, so much so that it would not make economical sense to just willy nilly throw one in even with the energy gains.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 03:49:32 am
content: @EEVblog, please LOCK this thread, this is getting silly now, thanks mate.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:02:32 am
content: Quote from: avrishuvorlaz on February 13, 2017, 03:49:32 amIn what way? I think this thread is actually quite interesting. If you don't like it, you're free to opt out of the conversation, but no need to get rid of what others were talking about.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:05:02 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 13, 2017, 03:24:12 amOnly in the sole instance of using electric resistive heating to produce hot water. We have a diverse range of water heating methods that are all pretty equally popular.- Electric instantaneous- Electric storage- Solar storage- Gas instantaneous- Gas storage- Heat pump storage (finally starting to take off).- Wood stove storage (finally starting to drop off).I've seen a lot of farm houses in the last 10 years moving away from wood fired and picking up reverse-cycle heat pump electric.One thing that is becoming slowly more popular is multi-technology. So a solar storage for example, with local boosting by an instantaneous technology. In the old days you used to put a booster in your solar tank, so insufficient sun would see you pump up the tank temperature with a resistive or gas booster system. Now they feed the water from the solar tank into a gas or electric instantaneous system which modulates its heat input to provide only the required temperature lift. That would serve a point of load system nicely as it would heat the cold water coming from the pipework and then taper off as the hot water from the tank reached the destination.Of course all this efficiency is offset by added complexity and the resulting cost.To the OP. You started it. Have the balls to either stick around and play the game or sit back quietly and watch the thread evolve. You don't get to take your bat and ball and go home just because your ill-conceived idea (or poorly thought our troll) spawns some actually useful technical discussion.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:06:01 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 04:02:32 amI am the OP and I have politely asked for it to be locked, no reason needed, it's my request, simple.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:13:09 am
content: Quote from: BradC on February 13, 2017, 04:05:02 amHah. I remember those wood furnaces. Around 8 years ago on a trip to visit family in Germany, my grandmother had a large house, a really really nice one infact, and it had both a (I think it was electric) and a wood furnace. Of course electricity was more expensive than the cardboard and wood used to fuel it in that rural area. I remember throwing wood in every morning, keeping the furnace running.In her current house it's all on demand systems spread around the house. Energy savings is quite a lot more important in Germany, and in Europe for that matter due to the higher costs of fuel in general.And for the OP, you should know that Dave (Or any mod/admin for that sort) do not lock threads for no good reason. They only tend to do it if it gets REALLY out of control due to something like a flame war, legal/personal threats/issues, or for something equally important/drastic. You are free to ignore the thread as you please, but I have a strong doubt that this thread is going anywhere but up.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:16:40 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 03:01:04 amMaybe it's a regional thing? I know a bunch of people who have them, they're a supplemental thing and produce much hotter water than comes out of the central hot water heater. They're for making cups of hot coffee or tea. You can buy them in any hardware store or home center.https://www.amazon.com/InSinkErator-Invite-H-HOT100-Instant-Dispenser/dp/B00ZP90S4E/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1486959275

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:59:28 am
content: Quote from: avrishuvorlaz on February 13, 2017, 04:06:01 amIndeed you are the OP. Your topic has been discussed - to what I would call a fairly comprehensive degree. I would expect you have no further interest in this thread - so why block further discussion on a tangent topic?Do you go to a party, start a discussion in a group and then force the group to disperse when they follow on with a new subject, inspired by your original one?No-one is forcing you to come back here.Edit: Typo.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 05:52:45 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 03:01:04 amhttps://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.invite-contour-instant-hot-water-dispenser.1000664090.html

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 05:57:25 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 04:16:40 amWoah. for some reason I was thinking of something that snapped onto the tap like a removable dishwasher and heated the water. No, I've never seen or even heard of those existing in my life, but this is actually interesting. I personally use an electric kettle, which is VERY rare in the US. Of course you can buy one, but almost nobody uses them, probably because they aren't the most effective things on a 1650w tops circuit (on a good day) when countries like the UK and Germany can go from 3000 to even 3800w on a single circuit (230v x 13 and 16a respectively)I have a gas stove with a pretty beefy burner on one side. If you put like a small pot of water (enough to poach or hard/soft boil an egg) on it, you will get full boil in around 5 minutes or so. The kettle can do it in 2-3 minutes, but not at the same volume. Traditionally we just used the microwave for tea, cocoa, or cup ramen. I haven't timed it, but the kettle may be slightly faster (1500w vs 1200w or so)Either way, at least we don't need to build a fire to take a bath.EDIT: On a side note, those cost more for just a single heater than our entire water boiler for a family of 4 (sometimes 5). As I said, water heaters can be had for 50-200 USD, they are very cheap, and very easy to install.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 06:56:24 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 13, 2017, 03:24:12 amUgh. No.The only places I've used these and they were satisfactory had run 240V/40A wiring to them. Otherwise you get a dribble, or lukewarm, or both.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:07:44 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 13, 2017, 06:56:24 amGas lines.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:17:15 am
content: I don't know where you can find new water heaters for $50-$200, when I replaced mine a few years ago it was almost $600 for the tank, a 50 gallon natural gas unit and I did the install myself. The electric ones are a bit cheaper but still several hundred bucks.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:20:07 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 07:17:15 amLol, you're right. I have no clue why I thought they were that cheap. XD

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:15:46 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 07:07:44 amYes, gas can supply an adequate amount of heat. I always find the WOOF a bit disconcerting, but whatever.Incidentally, I currently live in an apartment on the 15th floor of a 16 floor building in Moscow, built circa 2000.Time from turning on any hot tap (unused for several hours) to water you can't hold your hand under is 5 - 6 seconds. I turn the shower on (at preset position), pull the curtain, and get straight in. My trusty IR thermometer says a dining plate held under hot running water is at 89 C. Safety rules, what safety rules?The building hot water system (in fact the whole suburb) is shut down for a week or ten days each summer for maintenance. The apartment has a small inadequate electric instant water heater that is used only in that week. Have to operate three taps to enable it (turn off building hot water supply, turn on from heater to apartment hot water line, turn on cold water to heater).The last place I lived in New Zealand, you had to run three litres of water out of the kitchen tap before it got hot.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:26:55 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 03:01:04 amThose "boiling water" taps are common in office buildings (usually combined with a chilled water tap). Then of course you just have your regular taps. The newer types have most of the actual boiler/chiller/pump section hidden under the benchtop with the tap that look like this:You can even get ones that dispense carbonated water.On-demand water systems are very common here. If you have a new house, it almost always comes with one as standard as they require little to no maintenance, take up far less room and are very economical to run. A lot of people have retro-fitted them in older houses too either as a cost-saving measure or to replace their old gas/electric water tanks when they eventually wear/rust out or fail.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:57:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 13, 2017, 08:26:55 amI find that the US is actually a bit behind on newer, more efficient systems. Our power grid is in my opinion, one of the worst in the world. Everything is above ground (Unless you're in a major city), 120v @15A is stupid, and the plugs are terrible.For that reasons and many others (Including the politics and lack of reasonable people in this country) I am headed to Germany in 3 years time.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:23:57 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 08:57:49 amNot to mention NTSC, degrees Fahrenheit, imperial units and pennies, dimes, quarters etc...Always have to be different, don't you?

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:26:45 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 13, 2017, 09:23:57 amIt's a trait we have inherited from the UK. The real reason we have many different standards is that we invented a lot of them, and then the rest of the world invented better ones. By the time they did, it was too late for us to change.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:32:20 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 09:26:45 amIt's never too later to change my friend. Australia adopted decimal currency in 1966 and the metric system from about 1970 onwards.So why Germany? Family ties?

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:54:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 13, 2017, 09:32:20 amIt's easier to change a system of measurement (In the modern world unless you're pumping gas, driving a car, or baking a cake, you're using SI in the US) and even a currency than it is to completely change a broadcast standard, power grid, etc.And Germany for many reasons. It's in the middle of Europe, I am right next to many major European countries, I do have family ties, and there is free college tuition. It also has better infrastructure and a less stupid attitude to real world problems (If you hurt yourself it's more your fault than it is the owner of the building).I also am totally sick of US politics and people. If you shit yourself laughing at Trump, it's not funny when you're here. And he's just part of it. His supporters aren't any better, and then you have all the stupid people on the other side of the political spectrum. Unfortunately Europe has more SJWs than the US, but I find they aren't as obnoxious about it.I am 15 now, but this is a goal I have set forth. College is in 1 year for me (Yes I am going early) and I am getting a 2 year degree at a community college. At that point I need to move on to a better location, and Germany is great because of the free tuition. I can go to a SUNY college (I live in New York), or I could move to another state. Either way I am paying. With Germany I pay to live there, and nothing else. If I were to go to MIT, it would be closer to my more intimate family members, but I would be paying to live and study there, and college loans SUCK.My main annoyances are the cost of living in Germany is higher than the US, (Here you have lower taxes, and cheap as the cardboard they are made out of houses, but you also get less social benefits), and the less absolute freedom of speech. Not that we don't have hate speech laws here, but they are WAY more lax. You can write a book about anything and it's almost impossible to break a law unless you Libel, make direct threats, or if you break copyright. My minor issue is that there are certain banned topics in Europe that you can't write about or can't talk about. It's nothing I would be interested in, but I dislike the notion that people can be prosecuted for their unacting opinions.I can be wrong on some of this stuff, but this is a main reason I wish to move there. I also have citizenship there which means I can basically pack up, get a place, and move there without any need to apply for much of anything (Possibly proof of residency and ID stuff, but you have to do that here too)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 10:02:54 am
content: Well good on you mate!Sounds like you're one of the brighter ones.Have you thought about somewhere like Finland (or even Australia)? We are far from perfect here but I'd like to think we're pretty relaxed when it comes to most things. The downside is that the real estate market is going absolutely crazy in most capital cities (and even some regional centres). It's great if you're a home owner but awful if you're a renter. Many people living in Sydney and Melbourne have accepted the fact they may never own their own house. Whilst other economies have gone through their crashes, we seem to have defied the odds. It's nuts.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 10:24:19 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 09:54:49 amHave fun. Although I would suggest to take it easy with big plans like this. I'm also not Belgian, and I had to realise, its the little things that can get to your nerves. I had huge problem with people speaking dutch. It is such a harsh language, it gets on your nerves if you listen to it every day. Same with german.So I suggest to listen on a weekend for 2x8 hours on youtube (or something) some annoying 18 year old skateboarder-rapper-hippi german group of people shouting constantly. If you are still standing after that... good luck.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:09:26 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 13, 2017, 09:23:57 amActually theydon'tuse imperial units: they short-change people with similarly named units, e.g. gallon, hundredweight, ton.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:13:05 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 09:54:49 amI'm not going to try to persuade you either way, but beware of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" effect.Is there some way you could "test the waters" by living there for a couple of months before making a big decision?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:37:03 pm
content: NTSC is dead for all practical purposes, I mean it's still around to a degree but all modern TVs are HD capable. I agree our mains plugs are not the best design but they get the job done. There is a lot of underground power in the area where I live and while it has advantages it is not a panacea. It's rare that it fails but when it does fail it is much harder and far more expensive to diagnose and repair.Without dipping too far into politics, part of the reason the US political scene is this way is that for decades educated, forward thinking people have been fleeing the heartland and congregating on the coasts and the result is a more and more polarized landscape out of touch with each other. People doing as you plan and leaving the country contributes to this polarization because then those you are fleeing from make up an even larger percentage of the population. Not trying to change your mind here, Germany is a nice place but every country has its problems. Everything everywhere is a series of compromises.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 06:06:00 pm
content: The only thing really wrong with the US plugs is that non-earthed ones can go in either way, meaning the appliance doesn't know which is phase and which is neutral. When I was a child there were a lot of houses in NZ that were old enough to not have wall sockets for appliances in most rooms, so people had bayonet plugs (and splitters) on the end of extension cords and plugged appliances into light sockets. Those were banned decades ago exactly because they were neither polarised nor earthed.That applies just as much to euro plugs -- more so because it's still true for earthed ones.UK plugs are just hideous.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 13, 2017, 06:06:00 pmThat's actually completely untrue. We have had polarized plugs since the NEMA standard existed. Every single two prong outlet is polarized, and if you look closely, one connector is larger at the end than the other, meaning it cannot plug in backwards. We do have unpolarized plugs, but they are only found on simple electronics like chargers.Also I have never heard of a "Hundredweight"We also now use ATSC for transmissions which is completely incompatible with DVB of any sort. We do not have public satellite TV either.Another thing that weirds me out a bit is the TV tax. In the US you buy a TV and you don't need to pay for anything but service and power, but in Germany and most of europe, it's something like 100 euro a year or so. But that's very trivial.And I choose Germany because I like the country. I have family nearby if I need something too.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:10:40 pm
content: Why is that an issue? Is Romania that third world that you have to treat cheap aluminum cookware as investments that are passed down from generation to generation and can't afford to replace? Did you make then yourself from the cases of old cluster bombs? Here in America we just throw that shit out and buy a new one. If you ruin the pan; fuck it. But if a good cast iron pan costs more then you make in a year thats a different story.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 07:10:06 pmYou have now:https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hundredweight"A hundredweight is a unit of measurement for weight used in certain commodities trading contracts. In North America, a hundredweight is equal to 100 pounds and is also known as a short hundredweight. In the United Kingdom, a hundredweight is 112 pounds and is also known as a long hundredweight."and similarly"A US liquid gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds or 3.78 kilograms at 62 °F (17 °C), making it about 16.6% lighter than the imperial gallon. There are four quarts in a gallon, two pints in a quart and 16 US fluid ounces in a US pint, which makes the US fluid ounce equal to 1?128 of a US gallon."QuoteIt means we can get good unbiassed television programmes without adverts. In the UK a 1 hour programme contains ~55 minutes of content; in the US your eyeballs/brain are sold to the highest bidder for 1/3 of the time. Unless, of course, you pay money to watch channel X and more money to watch channel Y and more money to watch channel Z.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:19:30 pm
content: I can't speak for everyone but I buy good quality cookware and expect it to last. My favorite cast iron pan has been in the family for several generations and I still use it. I have some nonstick frying pans that are over a decade old and the teflon is still fine. Not everyone in America buys cheap crap and throws it away.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 07:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 07:19:30 pmTeflon is never fine. I dont trust putting unnecessary flourinated hydrocarbons in my food. We have enough BPA and carcinogens that seems dumb to add to the list. Plus cast iron cooks better. Teflon just seems lazy too me.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:09:05 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 07:10:40 pmThat is an arrogant statement.You shouldn't damage your things that costed you time and money to acquire, no matter how cheap they may be. If you just start busting pans left and right, you'll just be throwing money away.Money is something you can never have enough of, and something that you should NEVER waste as much as you can.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:16:37 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 08:09:05 pmThey need a button that writes: (sarcasm) (/sarcasm) . The worst forum for not getting jokes is radioreferance.com, it's like every member has "ass-burger's" or is on the spectrum. I had them going for five pages of very serious responses when I said it was a good idea to plug my antenna into the A/C mains socket and I was going to try it. They never had a clue I was bullshitting them.And the trick to being happy is realizing that the amount of money you have is the amount you need. Never enough leads to never content. I would say my father has enough money, enough for about 10 average people. But he always thinks he needs more so the cycle never stops and he's never happy. How many millions does one person need? I couldn't even spend that much if I tried.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 07:43:58 pmWell that's your choice, nothing wrong with that. I've seen no evidence of harm caused by it and it's convenient so I'll continue using it. So many other things I'm exposed to from my hobbies that are more likely to cause harm.

author: ealex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:02:10 pm
content: my personal experience with aluminium cookware ( while melting snow ) is that you will get some nasty metallic taste in the water if you overheat it and then quickly cool it down.in my case the resulting water was so bad i had to throw it.i assume the oxide layer got damaged and the exposed hot metal had a change to react with the water.i don't know if AL has some long term health effects, but i would not try it again:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Biology

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:07:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 08:33:39 pmI often wonder how many people die each year because of convenience. Leaded gasoline was more convenient then having to put in additives.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: ealex on February 13, 2017, 09:02:10 pmThe oxide is stable and if removed it re-forms instantly; that's why Al doesn't tarnish.The only significant health hazard associated with aluminium cookware is if you heat acid substances in it for a long time. Classic examples: vinegar, fruit for jams.QuoteIt does have health significant problems when large quantities are ingested, but they are easy to avoid with normal cooking practices.Aluminium is the 3rd most abundant element in the earth's crust. It would be surprising if we were very susceptible to being poisoned by it!http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/elabund.html

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:47:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 13, 2017, 07:19:30 pmYep, agree. Steel cookware should basically last forever. I personally use steel pans and woks. They have no coatings whatsoever on them. You "season" them with oil which creates a hard wearing non-stick layer over time. Beats the crap out of Teflon.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:55:01 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 13, 2017, 09:27:45 pmOxygen is quite abundant and is very reactive towards biological tissue(Free radicals and the things antioxidents protect you from are just oxygen).Silicon is everywhere and has all kinds of bad diseases associated with it, asbestos, silicosis etc etc .All Al found in nature is in the form of rocks like boxite, so free Al metal is not something humans have evolved with.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 09:56:40 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 07:43:58 pmYeah, I cook with cast iron that's been in the family for three generations now. Sure it takes longer to clean and oil after each use, but it sure cooks good!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 11:24:39 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 09:55:01 pmI remember reading that Aluminum was once the metal of kings because metallic aluminum was so rare until man learned how to extract it from ore, a relatively recent development.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 11:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 09:55:01 pmBefore worrying about irrelevant things, learn some chemistry and biochemistry.For example, start with the concept that neither you nor I have ever touched aluminium; all we do is touch aluminium oxide. That pretty much negates your last statement.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 03:59:57 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 09:55:01 pmYikes, you sound like the sort of person that confuses silicon with silicone.We need oxygen to live. Yes, oxygen is very reactive. Butoxidesare what you get when oxygen has already reacted. The oxygen in an oxide is "happy", stable, no longer reactive. Confusing oxides with oxygen is like saying that hydrogen is highly flammable, therefore water (H2O, heaps of hydrogen in it) must be highly flammable too.I can't figure out why you're talking about silicon; but connecting asbestosis with anything other than actual asbestos is the height of overreaching irrelevant "connections". Silicosis is similarly connected to fine particulates of a particular particle size (typically of Silicon Oxide, i.e. sand), so associating it with Silicon as a general element or alloy constituent is again, utterly divorced from reality.It's spelled bauxite, and by the time Aluminium gets into your bloodstream it has to have been dissolved one way or the other. You're not going to have droplets of molten aluminium in your bloodstream. So by that stage, any distinction with bauxite or other ores of aluminium will have long been rendered irrelevant, it's just dissolved Aluminium ions by then. Even disregarding the valid point made by others that Aluminium reacts to rapidly in the air that we humans only ever touch Aluminium Oxide, i.e., re-formed, practically perfectly natural bauxite. If you have a concern with Aluminium, it's just with the sheer quantity of dissolved Aluminium, not whether it's a "natural" ore (naturalistic fallacy alert).In short, stop spouting fearmongering hotwords and trying constructing an actual logical argument end-to-end. You'll soon find that you'll easily be able to deconstruct your own arguments before you even write them down.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 04:51:11 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 09:07:56 pmTetraethyl lead wasn't about convenience, it *was* an additive, added during the production of the gasoline. It had two purposes, one was to increase the octane of the fuel, preventing pinging back in the days before computerized fuel injection with knock sensors and other fancy features, and the other was to lubricate the exhaust valve seats. It was not realized at the time just how dangerous it was, and there was also an active campaign by the manufactures of TEL to push back as the toxicity was beginning to be realized. Now a combination of other additives, improved engine technology and the development of hardened exhaust valve seats has made leaded gasoline unnecessary and the advent of catalytic converters and oxygen sensors made lead-free gasoline mandatory. It is however still used in avgas for piston engine aircraft as no suitable replacement has been found.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 08:09:05 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 13, 2017, 11:39:27 pmSo, how far have you been in a PW5? :-) :-)(I've done a few 300+ km flights, including in contests. But I don't object to the DG1000 and Janus :-) )

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 08:30:30 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 14, 2017, 08:09:05 amAh, I started too late, and have now given up. But I still look skywards and think "that's sucking".Never been in a PW5, but a PW6 is pleasant to fly. Apart from that the sexiest machines I've been in are DG505 and ASH25. Happy daze.I just wish more people knew about what ordinary mortals can do, especially young adults (i.e. anybody starting at 12yo and definitely the 14yo solo pilots). It also does wonders for CVs in ways that youngsters don't realise until they see what "their competition" isn't like.As I'm sure you realise, I use the aphorism as a reminder to people that you don't need lots of expensive test equipment to do electronics. Neither would you want to try spin training in an ASH25!

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 08:51:05 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 14, 2017, 08:30:30 amYes, very true. Kids sent solo in a $100k unpowered aircraft (we do all our training in the DG1000 -- virtually identical to your 505 -- these days) get confidence and responsible attitude pretty fast. In NZ we don't have an age limit and have sent a few kids solo at 12, but that's unusual.To be honest, I think having cross country glider flying/contests on your CV is useful even at 50+. It's a great thing to explain to people in interviews :-) I can even point them to one my my videos with (as of now) 69693 views

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 11:28:12 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on February 13, 2017, 06:06:00 pmAs others have said, the US has polarized plugs. A two-prong plug can be polarized or not, depending on the appliance, while three-prong plugs are always polarized since the earth pin enforces polarity. In this regard, definitely superior to the 2-pin Europlug and the 3-pin Schuko plugs. (In contrast, the Swiss and French plugs enforce polarity on earthed plugs.)As for the UK plug, it may be huge and unwieldy, but as a system, it's beautifully designed, with polarity (and socket and cord orientation) enforced, and with advanced safety features from early on.Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 13, 2017, 07:10:06 pmWell, as you said, we DO have unpolarized plugs for devices that don't need polarization for safety.Some extremely early (pre-NEMA*) sockets are unpolarized, but you only find them in houses whose electrical systems haven't been upgraded for literally 100 years. Polarized plugs, oddly enough, weren't common until the 1950s, despite the sockets supporting it.*The NEMA standard incorporated plug designs from the 1910's -- NEMA (the organization) wasn't founded till the 1920s. So here I mean a NEMA-compliant socket that predates the founding of NEMA itself.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 11:36:53 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2017, 04:51:11 amActually, the toxicitywasknown from the beginning, but was suppressed, and the Ethyl Corporation lobbied to keep it legal. Indeed, they marketed the product and the company as Ethyl specifically to avoid the word "lead", which people already knew was toxic. (What wasn't known was how much lead would accumulate in the atmosphere, similarly to how people didn't think that lead in paint would be a health hazard.)What'd kinda funny/sad is that the guy who discovered TEL's antiknocking properties was a fellow named Thomas Midgley, who not only unleased TEL on the world, but also helped invent CFCs. So this one man managed to be responsible for two of the worst synthetic environmental pollutants we've ever had...

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 11:39:37 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 14, 2017, 11:28:12 amInteresting that I've spent a total of about three years in the USA but never noticed. Mind you, most of my experience of actually plugging or unplugging US plugs is either plugging NZ things in in the USA, or plugging US thing in in NZ, through some kind of travel adaptor in either case.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 02:49:22 pm
content: TBH, the most beautiful design for plugs I have ever seen is German Shucko. They are about middle of the road in size compared to the UK plugs, but they have as much safety as you need. The modern ones are even shuttered.There are MANY issues with the NEMA standard including the ability to touch it while half way inserted, incredibly flimsy connectors, and even the actual power that comes out of the wall which is probably the second least powerful in the world, with Japan being right behind. Sadly, everything uses it, so because everything uses it, it would be too expensive to change it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 04:53:02 pm
content: 120V did have advantages. Throughout the majority of the history of domestic electricity, it was largely used for incandescent lighting. If you look at the figures, 120V incandescent bulbs are significantly more efficient than 240V bulbs. Now this is quickly becoming irrelevant but it was significant for quite a long time. Some in other places don't seem to realize that we have 240V here too for larger appliances, although the 120-0-120 split is slightly less convenient than "real" 240 with one side ground referenced. There is some added convenience in having both voltages available though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 05:39:10 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 14, 2017, 02:49:22 pmOMG I detest Schuko. To me it combines not the best of the others, but the worst… It's not as well designed as the UK one (cord sticks out instead of down like UK), but it's still huge, heavy, not polarized, and can require tremendous force to insert or remove.Most countries require shuttered sockets now, including USA since 2008. It's fairly easy to retrofit shutters to existing socket standards.Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 14, 2017, 02:49:22 pmWell, many NEMA plugs and sockets are flimsy, but that's because we Americans generally buy flimsy crap, not because the standard requires it. There are vendors that make really good plugs (for example, Apple products have some of the finest NEMA plugs I've ever seen), and quality sockets (like the ones used in hospitals) grip the plugs very decisively. But most homes have cheap sockets that wear out quickly and go very loose, and many things like extension cords use horrible folded sheet metal pins.(The flip side is that a cheap US wall socket costs about a dollar; a Swiss outlet is built properly and lasts much longer, but costs $30…)As for touching half-inserted prongs: it would be possible to change NEMA to sleeved pins. The Australian plug uses flat pins with almost identical dimensions to the pins in NEMA plugs, and they have required them to be sleeved since about 2004.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 06:45:43 pm
content: I hate those shuttered sockets that are required now, they're only required for residential use so the ones you can buy are almost all poor quality. I pull them out and replace them with good quality spec grade receptacles as used in commercial buildings. They're designed to stop kids from poking things in, but it's a bit like "child proof" medicine bottles, my grandmother often had me open them for her when I was a kid because she couldn't grip hard enough but I had no trouble.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 06:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2017, 06:45:43 pmHahahaha yes. I remember once when I was a little kid… my mom used to get migraines sometimes, and one day she had one and couldn't get the new damned aspirin bottle open. She finally told me to grab her a hammer, and she smashed it open!

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 11:03:23 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 14, 2017, 06:58:26 pmTo be fair I could open those things since I was little. And then there are still ones I can't open to this day.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 09:16:06 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 13, 2017, 11:39:27 pmI'm currently a chemistry student at college and was studying microbiology before my eye sight went bad.My comments were just crude statements as this is not a thread nor a forum about chemistry.pretty much every post I have made in this thread has been sarcasm as it seems just like a goof off thread. My level of understanding in chemistry is about that of the guy that makes the channel "NileRed" on youtube but not still not at the level of "nurdrage's" channel.If we are going to nitpick sand is silicon dioxide since its in the same group as carbon with the magic number of four valance electrons. Silicosis is technically caused by your lung tissue walling off 10 micron sized particles of silicon and or magnesium oxides forming tubercles in your lungs much like it does with tuberculosis. All metals in a blood solution are in the form of ions as metal is not soluble in polar solvents. Elements react when they are in the form of ions. A good example is calcium and sodium ions in your nervous system. A key difference is the iron in your blood as it is chelated into a heme protein and not a free ion. This makes it react with oxygen.As far as spelling goes most of my words are just what auto correct comes up with as you can see from my signature in legally blind and it has since stopped my college career into DNA modification of microorganisms.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 10:55:39 pm
content: The critics have gone silent. So I will say thank you for your advice on trying to learn chemistry. I plan on making a doctorate degree out of it. I guess on the internet everyones a critic.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2017, 11:20:07 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 15, 2017, 10:55:39 pmYou originally argued that Aluminium metal is unnatural and that the human body can't have evolved to handle it; and then I say that's a ridiculous statement to make because it's all dissolved by the time it reaches your body. Then you reply with a "retort" that you know chemistry better than the rest of us and, e.g., Aluminium is all dissolved by the time it reaches your body. So forgive us "critics" for being rather confused by your 180-degree about-face while simultaneously gloating that the "critics" can't touch you.Similarly, your "defences" of your original fear-mongering statements about Oxygen and Silicon appears to pretty much be carbon copies of my arguments for exactly why they are ridiculous fear-mongering statements. So yeah, forgive me for being confused about what you're actually claiming anymore.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:39:20 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 15, 2017, 10:55:39 pmMaybe that's because your last post was a lot of jargon strung together in invalid ways to reach invalid conclusions. Sometimes people are just so determinedly wrong that it isn't worth the bother of repeatedly trying to point out their errors.Don't trust me: take your statements as written to your teachers, and see what they say.In future you might like to consider clearly indicating that your "...crude comments..." are intended as "...sarcasm...", so that readers won't get the idea that you believe what you write.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:37:39 am
content: Well will you LOOK at this thread... and it all started from me asking about a simple pan of water to poach some eggs!You can ALWAYS rely on the internet to over-analyse things to a farcical degree - we even have the usual thread bickering and folks thinking their knowledge is "better" than that of other folks.Wow... don't me spoil your "fun"as you were, pedants.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:48:29 am
content: I don't like cooking with DiHydrogen Monoxide - it's a dangerous substance.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 01:50:15 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 13, 2017, 09:23:57 amWe like to say we are exceptional.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 02:08:48 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on February 15, 2017, 11:20:07 pmBut more importantly I really don't give shit about arguing with someone over the internet nor do I care about how some one makes eggs in romania.QuoteYea I could do that, but that would also require me giving a shit. I never saw the point of long drawn out emotional arguments over the internet. People have even escalated it to the point of entire youtube channels where they go back and fourth. Seriously who cares? If the internet was making me that upset I would just close the lid to my lap top and the problem would be solved.Back on topic:Some one mentioned dihydrogenmonoxide. Every year that kills thousands of people. Little kids are especially at risk if they live in a house with a large open top container of it in the back yard.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 03:04:43 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 16, 2017, 02:08:48 amI think you're funny, and in a good way - not a supercilious"I'm pretending to be nice but have a hidden agenda"way - I like the way you say it how it is, keep that up, too many serious miseries online with a sincere need of lightening up.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 03:07:00 am
content: I think we all need to take a step back and wonder how the HECK we went from poached eggs, to standardizations, to chemistry and illnesses, and now to whatever we are talking about (I honestly lost track)

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 03:08:23 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 16, 2017, 03:07:00 amI did kinda wonder that.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 05:08:31 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 16, 2017, 02:08:48 amThe cause of that is lack of parental responsibility rather than dihydrogenmonoxide.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:04:59 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 14, 2017, 05:39:10 pmAussie sockets for the win. Polarised, low profile, shuttered, insulated pins and longer ground pin which make contact, kids find it hard to stick anything in and most importantly: It's relatively easy to "line up" and insert a plug when you have to reach down somewhere where you can't quite reach/see.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 09:18:35 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 16, 2017, 09:04:59 amI actually had an interesting idea for a mains AC adapter. The idea it that it has three metal rings (Can be bent sheet metal if needed) inside each other. You have a center ring in the middle of the plug that is the live/hot connector. You then have outside that ring the neutral, and outside that the ground. The advantage here is that it is impossible to touch the live connector when inserting it into the socket, the connector doesn't need to be that big, and the returns are larger than the inputs. They can be sleeved if needed, but it only needs to be done on the outermost ring. The center ring is the only one that needs to be shuttered on the outlet (As touching ground and neutral won't hurt you unless under really strange circumstances)Think of it sorta like a DIN connector, but slightly bigger. The outer shield is duplicated twice inside the connector like three rings each inside each other. Other advantages are that they can be made cheaply out of plain sheet metal, it can be fairly small, and it won't hurt your feet as bad if you step on it (I'm looking at you UK)

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:20:49 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 16, 2017, 09:18:35 amSwapping hot and neutral causes no obvious problems with properly-wired appliances, which means swapping hot and neutral happens all too often. So yeah, shutter the neutral please.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 11:33:34 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 16, 2017, 09:18:35 amThere's info on wiki and an episode of John Ward discussing some old plugs that were basically what you describe.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 12:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on February 16, 2017, 11:20:49 amYou could if you wanted to.Idk, maybe I should develop a prototype, I wouldn't know where to do that though.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 04:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 16, 2017, 02:08:48 amClearly, given the evidence in this thread, that is an, ahem, "alternative truth".

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 06:57:02 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 16, 2017, 12:39:20 amI missed this little gem of a comment here. So basically instead of you using common sense and figuring out if I'm being sarcastic you need me to explain that something is a joke or sarcasm? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of sarcasm? Its not funny if you spoil the joke by having to explain that it is a joke and why its funny. You are smart enough to figure out electronics but you can't tell if something is sarcasm or not? So yes I will take your advice and take all the humor and entertaining parts out of my posts because you might get upset because the statement might not be 100% factually accurate. Why would that upset you in the first place? Are you going to take what I say seriously and try out what I'm saying only to find it won't work because I was being sarcastic? Then get mad it didn't work? Really the only person to blame it yourself for not having enough common sense to figure out someone was messing with you. If you are like this in real life you are going to have a hard time getting people to like you. Or do you need me to draw you a map of the sarcasm in this post?Heres something you can try: If you need more signal power in a radio you have try plugging the antenna directly into the hot hot prong of an AC outlet. Should boost your signal by 1500 watts! Oh wait don't do that I was being sarcastic and that might be dangerous because you could get a shock or damage your radio.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2017, 07:12:30 pm
content: The problem is that your statements don't sound like sarcasm, they sound like "I said something stupid and now I'm trying to save face by pretending it was sarcasm."And, given your posting history, the latter seems far more likely.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2017, 08:30:05 am
content: Quote from: Nerull on February 16, 2017, 07:12:30 pmI did say something stupid, I say stupid shit all the time. I'm often wrong too. If I was a afraid of looking dumb I wouldn't be asking questions in a forum in a subject I know little about. Saving face would imply that I'm trying to impress someone.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 07:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 14, 2017, 05:39:10 pmI have always favored the BS546 and BS1363 style plugs and receptacles (which I first saw in Hong Kong, incidentally, rather than the UK) vs. NEMA 5-15.However, are we just picking on NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 plugs? I actually find the NEMA twist-lock plugs to be quite good. They come in many varieties (apart from the strict standard) including shrouded, weatherproofed, etc. For example:http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/Press/PDFS/H5115.pdfMore expensive than a bottom of barrel, cheap NEMA 5-15 of course.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2017, 08:20:51 pm
content: You have the BS - Bullshit standardThe NEMA - Nematode standardThe Schucko - Sucko standardThe JIS - Jizz standardThe AS - Asshole standardThis is too easy.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 03:16:33 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on February 13, 2017, 07:10:40 pmInterestingly, following WW2, aircraft & other military equipment using aluminiumwasmelted down, & used to make, amongst other things, cookware.Possibly Romanians don't buy El Cheapo crap, so their cookware lasts longer.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 03:47:32 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 13, 2017, 07:17:17 pmThe story, (which may be apocryphal), I have heard about the origin of the 112lb "hundredweight", is that Millers were ripping farmers off, by retaining larger & larger amounts of the milled grain product, with the farmer getting less & less.For example,out of 100lb of flour,the farmer often only got around 50lb.The farmers complained to the King, who ruled that the milled product would be measured in amounts of 112lb--from this,the farmer got 100lb,& the Miller,12lb.QuoteThere has been a certain amount of "re-imperialisation by stealth" here in Oz,as the "trendoids" like to buy their beer in pints so they can pretend they are in London.I have a nasty suspicion that they are getty sold wimpy US "pints", instead of the full, red blooded Pommy ones!QuoteWe used to have TV & Radio Receiving licences in Australia, too,until it was discovered that the cost of running & "policing" the rules cost more than the returns from the licences.The ABC is now just financed from normal tax.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 05:56:51 am
content: The TV license thing would annoy me because I don't watch broadcast TV, haven't had an antenna or cable connected to my TV in more than 15 years. I'm glad I don't have to jump through hoops to prove that I don't use my TV for watching OTA programming and I'm not about to yank the tuner out because then I can't sell as easily later. I'm not about to pay a yearly fee just to posses a piece of equipment I already own outright.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 06:02:16 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 19, 2017, 03:47:32 amIt comes in pints??!!

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 03:46:08 pm
content: TwoOfFive, if you are moving to Germany in a few years, you should start reading the Koran now.....

author: Arjan Emm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 03:54:41 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on February 19, 2017, 03:46:08 pmJeez delta, as if this thread wasn't silly enough.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 06:02:05 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on February 19, 2017, 03:46:08 pmYour face has conservative written all over it.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 06:26:41 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 19, 2017, 06:02:05 pmLibertarian, if I am forced to identify with a political tag.Nice assumption though. If Frau Merkel continues as she is, there will be another three million young muslim men from MENA countries in Germany by the time you arrive. Knowledge of the Koran would be genuinely useful.Best of luck to you.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 01:43:04 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on February 19, 2017, 06:26:41 pmAnd what is wrong with that?

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2017, 03:38:26 pm
content: Yeah, I don't really see the issue here.And at least you don't have an orange faced dipstick of a president.

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2017, 05:08:23 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on March 02, 2017, 03:38:26 pmHes not a dipstick; a dip stick has a useful purpose and conveys real information. I would choose a dipstick over this orange faced lunatic any day. If he was a dip stick he would say your car has a billion dollars worth of the most fantastic white oil ever made, when in fact there was no oil in the engine and never had been. Also is it possible for a dipstick to want to have sex with its daughter?