Setting up an electronics design Workstation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 05:53:16 am
content: I'm planning to buy the entry level Altium designer that has recently had a price reduction as discussed in Dave's recent post Altium Vs Eagle. I'd like some advice on suitable computer hardware to run Altium along with other electronic design tools like PSPICE. While I've considered pricey workstations like HP's Z1 G3, I feel this might be a bit of an overkill. I'm a hobbiest and most of my designs are audio/music products. Any advice and feedback would be appreciated.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 09:21:56 pm
content: Do you want AIO computer or just a custom PC?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 09:28:07 pm
content: Quote from: Spitruzzello on December 22, 2016, 05:53:16 amI would not buy something like this. For the sole reason, should something happen with it, it would be tenfold more difficult and much more expensive to make it running again than standard PC. And that without screen being way too small for my taste. I like to see a lot of PCB on the screen. Preferably one screen for schematic, second for PCB.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 09:56:23 pm
content: Since a few years, I buy refurbished laptops and workstations instead of new. For your goals and with an hobby budget too, I recently bought a Dell T3600 with an E5-1650, 16GB ECC RAM, 128GB SSD for 450 USD. I changed the Quadro graphic card to a GTX970 for 150 USD. With the rest, I bought two Dell U2414H for 150 USD each. Everything is overkill yet so cheap.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:26:25 pm
content: QuoteTwo in landscape for PCB and schematic and one in portrait mode for datasheet and google ...

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:41:02 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on December 23, 2016, 10:26:25 pmi never had a need for 3rd monitor... for me 2 screens is always enoughschematic + board (laying out the board)schematic + datasheet (drawing schematic)library + datasheet (creating the part + footprint)btw... my "workstation" is a small mini-itx based system, with 4 core celeron cpu , 8G ram , 240G SSD and intel hd graphics and 2 screens. does the job very well, low power , fanless, quiet.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:44:33 pm
content: No need for fancy computer parts, a decent performing prebuilt will no special functions should be perfectly sufficient. A bit more CPU may get you faster auto routing if you care, but with a decent screen (or two) and comfortable input peripherals.... you've basically got it if your computer is reasonably responsive and modern.

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:46:34 pm
content: You don't need a lot of grunt for "office"-level stuff (schematic & pcb design)Spice-ing, on the other hand, will take all the power you can give it(Well, at least if you wanna get some high-frequency simulations done before you grow old)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 11:41:15 pm
content: I'd strongly recommend to get a PC which is designed for office/business use from Dell or HP. These usually have lesser specs than the consumer grade crap you can buy from an electronics store but the 'for business' machines are designed&built to work reliable and stable for many years. Don't expect blazing gaming performance as these are primarily intended for writing letters and doing CAD work. Also avoid machines with an AMD processor because these machines are built to be cheap with lesser parts.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 12:01:36 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on December 23, 2016, 10:26:25 pmYes! I keep an old 4:3 LCD around driven by a ridiculous USB to VGA dongle, it's just good enough to display a legible PDF.

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 03:32:03 am
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on December 23, 2016, 09:21:56 pmI like AIO computers due to their smaller footprint, however I'd consider a custom PC if the box is compact.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 04:08:19 am
content: The box I built a few years back handles Altium fine....an older version.I3 3.3G and 12G ram on an Asus mobo with onboard graphics and SSD for OS and a few HDD's for programs and storage.I have Altium on one of the HDD's and it takes a while to boot. When I built this box SSD's were still expensive and the next box will have a SSD large enough to have all of the slow booting programs installed on it. Altium projects can live on a HDD as they're not that large and via SATA they won't take long to load.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 03:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on December 23, 2016, 10:26:25 pmAt certain point of time I tried sitting in front of three 30" monitorsbut that was too much. And no space left for any test equipment on a 2 meter long desk .

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 24, 2016, 04:08:19 amI will add to this ^ that IMO you need 2 monitors at least for any amount of time doing PCB work.In the past I used graphic cards with multiple outputs to support monitors but I have found lately onboard graphics adequate for the task. Just be sure to select a mobo with multi monitor support and a good ram sharing capability and dedicate the max ram for graphics it can handle to it.My next box (slowly building), the mobo supports 3 monitors and initially it will have 8G of ram and I'll just monitor the ram % used with a view to adding more if needed.Pick a mobo with 4 ram slots, who cares if they're not all used but you can just wack another ram module in when and if required.

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:26:45 pm
content: Another option might be, if you can tolerate the potentially sizeable case, an older-generation workstation. Stuff like first-gen i7-era Xeon-equipped HP / Dell / Lenovo ones can be had for relatively dirt-cheap.With a bit of luck & patience, you can even score a dual-socket machine for a couple hundred bucks (think 8-12 RAM slots, possibility to chuck in up to two six-core CPU's if needed)Or "even" single-socket machines (potentially more recent) can be had for roughly the same amount of cash (if not even less).

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:53:43 pm
content: Quote from: KhronX on December 24, 2016, 07:26:45 pmThanks KhronX, I was thinking about a low-cost 2nd hand option.

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:04:53 pm
content: No probsI've been looking at something like HP Z600, Fujitsu R570-2 or Lenovo D20 initially (Nehalem-based dual-Xeon workstations).Dell T5500 didn't really tempt me, 'cause the 2nd processor is on a separate (and expensive) "daughterboard", etc.Either way, this generation takes up to two hex-core CPUs.But since it wasn't exactly a high priority for me, i slowly started to get tempted by the Sandy Bridge generation workstations.The best deal i've come across turned out to be "local" (within Finland), a Lenovo D30. This generation takes up to two 12-core cpu'sDespite those (still) being expensive as hell, that still means plenty of room for expandability, down the road.I should mention, though, that my intended use for this is LTspice and audio-video editing / rendering (eventually).

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:26:20 pm
content: Thanks KhronX, I've always had a preference for HP - they provide good service in Australia especially to business. By the way, are you a drummer?

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:30:47 pm
content: With regards to expandability, i'd prefer the Z600, but it's a bit of a "dead-end".Its heir, the Z620 is more future-proof, but like in the Dell T5500 / T7500, the second CPU is on a daughterboard, which is a downerJee, how'd you guess?Quote from: Spitruzzello on December 24, 2016, 11:26:20 pm

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:44:54 pm
content: Another piece of advice: get an SSD as a hard drive and make sure you have a good backup strategy.

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:49:12 pm
content: Thanks nctnico, I haven't bought a computer without SSD for quite some time - they're great.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:57:13 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 24, 2016, 12:01:36 amThere's also programs that allow you to turn a tablet into an extra display. I know on the iOS side there are a few apps that work over WiFi and are Mac/Windows compatible, I'm sure there's some available for Android too. They're not good enough for watching/editing video or gaming, but they'd be more than adequate for viewing PDFs.The best I've seen is on is an app called Duet, which works *amazingly* well. To the point that it's as responsive as a real monitor! They don't use WiFi, but instead use a direct USB connection to the iPad, which means there's no latency (which you get with WiFi).I keep an old 3rd generation iPad (the first with a retina screen) around specifically to act as a third monitor. I keep it in portrait orientation specifically for reading datasheets. So, I end up with:10" Retina Display for PDFs.13" MacBook Air display which is used either for a web browser *or* VMware fusion's second monitor which holds my schematic editor.23" Samsung external display which is used as my main monitor (or VMWare Fusion's primary monitor, which I do PCB layout on).

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 12:01:35 am
content: Thanks timb, I'll look into it. I've got a new 12.9" iPad Pro - great size screen for most apps, office programs and reading PDFs.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 07:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: Spitruzzello on December 25, 2016, 12:01:35 amOhh, lucky dog! Check out Duet on the App Store. It's reasonably priced and they have Mac and Windows host software available for free.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2016, 12:35:51 am
content: Man, one of these would be awesome for viewing PDFshttp://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-LCD-Display-LMD-DM30/371587655460?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39923%26meid%3D7a83cf567c9d4781b922e517aeca9608%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252681608027

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2016, 12:44:01 am
content: Just a couple weeks ago, while browsing online for some big-but-decent-and-cheap displays, for the "studio" we're setting up at the rehearsal place, i managed to get my hands on an IBM L200P, for 15eu (yes, fifteen euros)And in the same little town i live in, to boot..."Just" 1600x1200 though, but the panel's a 6xCCFL IPS, so nottooshabbyQuote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 27, 2016, 12:35:51 am

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 10:18:05 pm
content: Quote from: timb on December 25, 2016, 07:40:23 pmI downloaded duet display - it cost $AUD14. It works great! You need to fiddle with the display resolutions a bit to get the best setup but it's fantastic. Thanks.

author: Spitruzzello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 10:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: KhronX on December 27, 2016, 12:44:01 amHope the studio build goes well KhronX. I'm planning to setup a new electronics workstation and lab in my home studio- I play guitar and most of my electronics projects are guitar effects and audio pre-amps/amps, etc.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 06:18:16 am
content: i bought a refurbished HP Zbook laptop for 900$.Came with 500GB SSD and 16 gigs fo ram and a Quadro Card with 4 gig of ram like this one :http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Zbook-17-G2-Workstation-i5-4330m-2-8GHz-8GB-Ram-256GB-SSD-Quadro-/272492381562?hash=item3f71cfc57a:g:6I4AAOSwcUBYILUiCheck ebay for configurations. Mine had an I7-4800 , 32 Gig ram , 500GB SSD and 1TB magnetic HDD (the laptop has room for two harddisk plus an msata module.) some machines have a K1100 graphics card, some only the intel , some have the K3100 ( mine has a K3100 Quadro with 4 gig of ram )These machines are rock solid running windows 7 64 bit enterprise or business.The laptop has HDMI , Displayport,VGA esata, USB2.0 USB3.0 Wifi Bluetooth and a 1920x1080 LCD display.These are the default engineering workstations where i work (new these machines go for 3K$ + ... ) We run Altium day in and day out without hiccups.I bought the expanded docking station ( not the small one )http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Advanced-Docking-Station-NZ223AA-230W-Power-Adapter-/232187252613?hash=item360f704f85:g:C-sAAOSw1h5XQKD5That dock has room for an additional optical drive AND a bay for a 3 1/2 SATA harddisk .The advanced dock has USB 3.0 , USB 2.0 , 2 DVI ports, 2 Displayports and a bunch of other stuff.My home setup drives three LG 27 inch panels at 2560x1440 plus the laptops 1920x1080 screen. I can open Altium PCB on mid screen, Schematic left screen , have Chrome with Digikey Mouser Avnet Future Arrow and other parts sources ( findchips, octopart,ciiva) and the WIP (work in progress, my own work tracker made in sharepoint and ASP) tabs on the right screen. On the laptop screen i have outlook , Skype communicator and the Altium vault window open. I never shuffle windows anymore. Anything i need is open.I use a logitech K740 iluminated keyboard, a logitech M500 mouse (i like the shape and the way it feels in my hand ) and a Logitech Space NavigatorI run Altium 16 and 17, Solidworks , Rhino , Adobe Illustrator , Draftsight, Inkscape , Catia , Office. I can have Altium + Catia + Solidworks + word excel powerpoint outlook and aillustrator open all at the same time. The computer doesn't even slow down.Keep in mind that his is a 'portable' computer and not so much a notebook or laptop. It is big an bulk and heavy and needs a solid 'brick' power supply. But it certainly is a workhorse.

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 02:51:58 pm
content: If we're bragging, i got my Dell Precision M4800 refurb'd too, about 2.5 years ago, for about 1100eu (tax-free). No idea why it was refurb'd, it looked brand spanking new.I7-4800MQ, 8GB RAM, 500GB HDD, and one of the better fullHD TN panels.Up until a year ago, i tricked it out pretty nicely - 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2x 2TB HDD's (one replacing the optical drive which i can't recall the last time using, even in my previous laptop).At home, my 2nd display is a cheapo (read 500e) 48" Panasonic 4k TV, currently via HDMI (1.4, so only 30Hz - nice and slow / clunky for mouse movement), but i wanna get one of those Club3D Displayport-to-HDMI2.0 adapters soon (ffor the full 60Hz smoothness).What can i say - it's quite nicehttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20127094/MyPlace/IMG_9574.JPG