Microwave weapons? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 05:31:19 pm
content: New York Times says the unexplained US embassy sicknesses in China and Cuba could have been microwave weapons.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.htmlWhat is the EEvblog consensus on this? I have to say that though I know such weapons probably exist, I'm very surprised that the embassies were not equipped to detect such weapons. I mean, it's not like wideband antennas and SA's don't exist. And unless those beams are really focused to human head size (seems hard to do from a van parked outside) then there would be ample signal to detect, right?If the beams really are tight, I guess you could issue staff personal radios to alert when microwave energy over a certain power level is present. This could even be done pretty cheaply, I'd think.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 05:45:06 pm
content: this might have been a botched espionage attempt to overcome tempest protections, not a intentional weapon to cause a stirthey probobly would have bombed the fucking thing if they wanted to cause a stir, cuban goverment is nutsOr more reaslistically some kind of odd infection, virus, allergen that people there were exposed to by chance.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 05:45:22 pm
content: kreosan on YouTube has made a "microwave weapon" before and shown what it does. The symptoms of the people in the embassies don't match up. If it was a microwave I'd expect intense heat and burns too.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 05:53:02 pm
content: The number one thing is motive. Why would you use a secret weapon on a embassy? Russia is sparse with using weird weapons, maybe to assassinate dangerous spy-leakers and stuff.. but to terrorize a building?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 05:55:52 pm
content: Maybe they are mixing up microwaves with (ultra-)sonic waves. For most people a wave is a waveStill, this whole story doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. It's like a thousand times more likely that they got some kind of infection in their hotel/apartment house or it's a psychosomatic thing.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 05:57:43 pm
content: Yes, and also I think the only plausible motive, if this was real, is to make some kind of mass causality incident to decrease suspicion of use on a target of interest that was a victim in a different case, in order to derail or hamper an investigation, which is unlikely. So the investigators think that because this same symptoms occurred in mass in a area where such activity can have no motive, to weaken their belief in the investigation.Maybe contaminated drug use? I heard spies and people in cuba in general like to partayyyyhttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376136/

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 06:27:13 pm
content: While I don't think that the described symptoms can really be explained by this, at least this is a somewhat interesting theory about what could have (theoretically) caused the noises:https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/how-we-reverse-engineered-the-cuban-sonic-weapon-attackEven if highly (!) unlikely, this would at least explain weird noises in the apartments of embassy employees (well, the common theory about what caused the noises is crickets btw.). And admittedly, while hearing weird noises in your apartment most certainly won't cause brain damage (which however also wasn't really found in any of the cases AFAIK) it sure can drive you nuts. In combination with stories about other events like this, it might cause some kind of psychosomatic disease with actual symptoms.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 07:27:24 pm
content: One thing that I found interesting from the article is the existence of the Frey Effect.Over the years, in the capacity of sage electrical engineer, I have counseled many near-hysterical people that the dangers of EM radiations were overstated, and in particular, that in the case of non-ionizing radiation, nobody could even come up with a mechanism by which an EM signal could interact with the brain, apart from heating -- which is not going to be a factor unless the source is high power or very close or both.I was surprised to hear that you can induce auditory hallucinations with microwaves. Still, the article has no info on power levels, frequency, etc. But if you can create auditory hallucinations, it's not a long leap to nausea.As for motive, yeah, I dunno. I think it's interesting that the Cuba incident happened at a time of general thawing of US/Cuba relations, so one would not expect the Cuban gov't to be behind this. Maybe some hard-liners. The China thing is harder to explain.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 07:30:52 pm
content: I tried to frey myself but I could never figure it out (up to 20W at microwave with a horn)never did do much more then try to play music as AM through it though.Did not experiment with it much because I was afraid of my eyes being exposed, so I only did very short bursts but electrically and acoustically long.Either you need fancy modulation or crazy power. But you figure, with people doing experiments with magnetrons, someone would notice.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 07:52:41 pm
content: A microwave weapon is not really practical: due to the rather large wavelength, there is no such thing like a really focused beam, unless one uses a huge antenna. The usual 70 cm satellite dishes have an opening angle in the 3 degree range at 12 GHz. Something like a 5 m dish is difficult to hide and handle.For the sicknesses, chances are high it's some chemical or biological thing, like contaminated/spoiled food or a virus. Even just the fear caused by rumors could cause psychological problems up to a self fulfilling fear.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2018, 10:59:10 pm
content: Considering how easy it would have been for the US to have a technical person make measurements and track down any ultrasonic, RF, or microwave attack, I am dubious about the whole thing. There should be a whole lot more evidence.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 12:21:43 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 01, 2018, 07:30:52 pmOne must be careful not to fry oneself while Freying oneself. :-)

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 12:26:37 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on September 01, 2018, 10:59:10 pmThough I find it hard to believe that an embassy would not have some kind of "signals/Tempest" person on staff who would be All. Over. This., it is getting harder to be surprised by incompetence in the US gov't. Also, the attack could be intermittent, and directed away from where any fixed sensors or antennas are known to be. For example, if the guys in "the van" know when the RF guy gets in in the morning, or goes out to get coffee, etc, or if the embassy staff are being attacked while at home or out and about, it could be reasonably easy to avoid detection. The obvious countermeasure for this would be for the staffers to wear some kind of RF/ultrasonic-detecting device on their person, like a radiation film badge.All that said, you're probably right.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 01:44:58 am
content: Frey's 1st paper linked in the New York Times article, quotes the average power density for the "threshold of hearing" in eight subjects at two frequencies, 400uW/cm2at 1.31GHz and 2mW/cm2at 2.982GHz. Just to put things into perspective the IRPA limit for a microwave oven is 1mW/cm2measured at 2.5cm I think, I can't remember the exact figures. Anyway 1mW/cm2is 10W/m2is not really that high in terms of power density, it won't cause tissue heating so it's not going to literally going to "fry your brain".From a microwave point of view I think it's plausable.@djacobow Thanks for the posting the NYT article. It makes a pleasent change to see a well researched article. I wasn't aware of the "Frey effect" on the auditory sytem but after reading Allen H Frey's paper I think it's more likely to be microwave evesdropping and the modulation scheme used produces audible intermod products. I'm surprised that Uncle Sam didn't make any effort in detecting the so called weapons.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 01:49:16 am
content: How do you do it? Like what modulation scheme? AM does not seem to work. I can try it right now with up to 10W from 0.5-18Ghz.I did non-up-against-my-head experiments with microwave AM modulated by music from a MP3 player before just messing around, I never heard nothing. Tried like depache mode iirc. I honestly thought the frey effect was bullshit.you wuold figure there would be frey headphones or something if it was real. They have bone conduction.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:02:37 am
content: Quote from: djacobow on September 01, 2018, 07:27:24 pmWell, talk to anyone who has had an MRI done, especially of the head/neck area. They now run insane amounts of RF power to wobble the Hydrogen atoms, like 13 KW pulsed. Also, they run strong AC magnetic fields to introduce the magnetic gradient. The gradient coils make clunking/chattering noises, but the patient hears all sorts of higher frequency noise from the RF.Jon

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:10:19 am
content: @coppercone2 Maybe your head is too thickQuoteQuoteThankyou for your scientific insight.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:36:21 am
content: I call BS. In my experience, as soon as people know that something emits microwave RADIATION, they start running scared. Case in point: we completed installation of a new radar antenna under a dome on a tower. Dome is visible for several miles around. Due to long lead time on waveguide, we couldn't hook up the transmitter to the antenna for several weeks. Sure enough, in that time, we got at least two complaints from people living nearby that their WiFi stopped working and that their satellite TV stopped working.For a while after I started working at my current job, I could swear I 'heard the radar PRF' while eating lunch, about 100 meters away from an S-band antenna with a 1 MW transmitter attached. It turned out one of the techs had a police scanner set up at his desk, with the squelch turned on. When the radar scanned across the building, enough signal broke through the squelch that I could hear it down the hall. Felt quite silly when I found out.Years later, in the same lunch room, I thought I heard weird high pitched sounds that were very difficult to localize. After much effort and help from a colleague, we tracked the noise to a Wifi router. It was a dried out cap in a switch mode supply that caused the coils to vibrate. Swapped out the cap and the noise went away.Yes yes, anecdotes are not evidence, but I'm willing to bet there's a more benign explanation for all this.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:39:25 am
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on September 02, 2018, 02:10:19 amhow would you do the experiment?In a MRI I had no idea if its the machine buzzing mechanically or induced.You could make really cool headphones if it worked.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:50:56 am
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on September 02, 2018, 01:44:58 amOh, you can BE SURE that they did! I know nothing, but even in friendly countries they have communications security people who are constantly checking for unexpected RF emissions. Most of the time it would be either authorized devices that are malfunctioning or unauthorized devices that have been brought into the building. But, this would also pick up signals from outside that are coming in. I do know that the US government had portable RF scanning kits in a suitcase in 1968, I'm sure what they have now is WAY better. One of the problems with this sort of thing is even if you know a problematic signal is coming in, it can be really hard to tell where it is coming FROM, especially if the creator is turning it on an off and moving the source around.Once detected, they have to figure out who is doing it, WHY they are doing it, and what to do about it. A lot of this stuff is kept under wraps, we go and complain to the corresponding agency and say "We KNOW what you are doing at location X, and if you don't cut it out, we are going to make things REALLY difficult for you at location Y." The Russians had at least two hilltops site in the US where they were intercepting all sorts of important communications, and they were forced to vacate those locations. This MIGHT have been the retaliation for the "sonic" thing, but I don't recall the exact timing of all this.Jon

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 03:32:17 am
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on September 02, 2018, 01:44:58 amMakes you think who was the source of the whole thing.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 06:22:56 am
content: Quote from: djacobow on September 02, 2018, 12:26:37 amIt does not surprise me at all. The US government is incredibly cheap when rent seeking is not involved and doubly so about protecting employees. I would not say incompetence so much as dysfunctional. Dysfunctionally incompetent?That the whole set of incidents were not thoroughly and objectively investigated is damning. There should have been a positive result one way or another.QuoteRF at these frequencies bounces very well and the intensity was plenty high so directing it away from possible warning receivers is not practical. It was the level where even untuned detectors are sensitive enough but they are not useful in a complex RF environment unless you are close to the source.Send a tech to the affected embassy to setup a remote network addressable spectrum analyser. You could buy the hardware off the shelf in a couple days for 10s of thousands of dollars although interestingly enough, such hardware is crippled by the federal government's ITAR rules unless you get an exemption. An electronic warfare receiver might be better but I don't know about pricing and availability on them. This would not reveal the source but it would definitely show something fishy is going on.Something else would be needed to test for ultrasound. You might have to have something made.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:39:37 pm
content: rofl I bet you it was a carbon monoxide lead on a shitty cuban boiler, maybe too many people smoking cigars outside the air ventno one is going to attack a US embassy to give thembrain damage,especially on their back yard, Why would putin start a war between cuba and usa? How did cuba afford such technology? they cant even pave their roads.Embassy attacks happen in the middle east and in Africa, because of religious extremists.Can someone give me a modulation scheme and power level and frequency required to induce these frey effects so I can try to put the microwave part of this issue to rest if its under 20W and 18GHz?I can't do anything about the ultrasonics but this honestly kinda sounds like it belongs on infowars.com. ALl these articles are coming up with insane plots with no freaking motive behind them. Russia bribed their way through Cuban officials or Cuban organized crime that runs the imports and outports to smuggle in some kind of high end psychotronic weapon taken out of "red alert 2 yuri's revenge" 50's anti commie pulp, despite the fact that the USA strictly watches the imports to Cuba to determine if you know, someone is trying to put nukes there again, then figure out how to hide or exfiltrate this machine after it causes a media debacle?If this thing was outside the embassy in a van, the power level should be low, even if it was some whizzbang dish or phased array housed in a non suspicious van (yea right, like vans in front of embassy won't get investigated by the friendly CIA security detail that probably lives in an apartment across the street). These guys are not exactly old ladies which are scared to go outside. You put any large vehical outside an embassy now a days and people start to think its a jihadist with a car bomb. I bet you there is a 50% chance some 'kid' with a boroscope and a skate board is going to probe a van parked outside the CUBAN embassy at night.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 02, 2018, 02:52:24 pmUnless its a side effect from a espionage device, why would you attack a embassy in the first place? If anything they will just move it to a even more secure location thats more difficult to spy on. They probably spend all this time making local connections in the area so the embassy can be spied on, housing their counterintelligence near by, digging tunnels, etc. You know cuba and china can just tell them to get the fuck out of their country if they wanted to? Or zone that area for some kind of public works that important like some air purifier, water treatment, power station that HAS to be there for the city to function and tell them yea sorry

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 02:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 02, 2018, 02:52:24 pmThey would need to fly a drone and attach it to a window or something, if you did it from across the street or a roof top it would be attenuated or freaking demolish everything with seismic waves.Maybe some kind of vortex cannon could do something like bang on the embassy walls and make people think fidel castro's ghost is banging on the windows. That could explain some symptoms if they use some kinda combustion engine to modulate it, since it would be carbon monoxide there that can poison them if it has open windows or something.I can conceive trying to send audio this wayMaybe they should investigate the guy making the video, its about at a Cuban technology level, perhaps he did the engineeringIf you know someone is a spy and is really being a trouble maker why not just hire some local hoods to stab him ? The article implies they know the identities of the agents, so that means a mugging, beating, stabbing, shooting, poisoning, car accident, fire, drug bust, etc can easily be arranged.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 03:42:08 pm
content: QuoteThat makes sense, I can't really see what it would gain, all you got to do is make up a story about spying and deport the embassy staff.From Frey's second paperhttps://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/jappl.1962.17.4.689the abstract says that peak power density is a critical factor, typically 275mW/cm2with the average power density being < 1mW/cm2. So, in Frey's first paper he was quoting average power density. 275mW/cm2is 2.75kW/m2, don't think I'm going to try this out any time soon.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 03:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 02, 2018, 02:39:37 pmThe ultrasonics idea is real. It has been proposed and tested as a way to "beam" audio to individuals in a crowd and works through intermodulation at or near the target. Given the power levels involved, I always thought of it as a dumb idea and safety hazard.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 04:38:53 pm
content: No I mean the whole plausibility of attacking a embassy in poor ass Cuba with high end secret weapons for no discernible reason other then to irritate a few spies and risk a serious international incident that would probably result in heavy handed trade sanctions, confiscation of top secret equipment and people being kidnapped and threatened. It's like starting a mafia war no one wants to do it. I could see it in the 1960's maybe, when there were a ton of wars (with no predictable outcome) going on in South America and they wanted to put nuclear missiles in Cuba. With submarines the weight of nearby missile threats is much less so its not as crazy for now.But how would you do this? Put it in a van and risk it getting stopped or investigated? Putting heavy equipment in a nearby building that can get easily broken into and investigated? There would probably be very easy to see suspicious signs of weird sonic transmitters. I mean what are you gonna do, have every traffic cop in the city on your payroll?There is not many places you can put it on. A boat, in a building or a risky van. I am pretty sure someone in those apartments would complain. I guess you can have a comical submarine that raises a transmitter. The guards at the front post are gonna be eyeballing big vehicles real heavy.This is what you got there:So you can either use a boat/sub, do drive bys, rent an apartment, hide something in the government memorial or use the unknown building (Can't figure out what that thing is)The apartments are just stupid to use because counterintelligence can rent a nearby one or figure out that its being watched/locked out for some reason and they probably already monitor it, and its really easy to break into residential housing or at least loiter nearby.drive bys - risk getting stopped by traffic cop or having the CIA crash into you with a dump truck to cut your terror van in half. good luck proving its not just a intoxicated construction worker. Everyone including your mother thinks vans are mega suspicioushide it in public place/memorial - seriously doubtfulsubmarine/boat - sounds insaneunknown building -anyone know what it is?use some kind of robot to attach itself to building - also crazy and it can get captured really easily if spottedI don't know the range on such things, I guess maybe you can also put it in a far away area that has line of sight if its really focused but the reflector would probably be obvious, or maybe a helicopter or dronemaybe you can hide it in the sewer and use the buildings pipes or have ssome kinda antenna pop out of a man hole, if that area even has sewers, when no one is looking

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 05:18:38 pm
content: lol maybe its a computer virus that is making various power circuits in the building make acoustic noise by modulation, that might make someone think they are experiencing psychotic symptoms of schizophrenia, or some kind of impedance modulation of the mains to make things hum? can you do something like that? perhaps just connect a audio generator to the mains so you can make the transformers tell people to take off their shoes?but why? there is also a joke that can be made about government employees but I feel a bit bad

author: JimRemington
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 06:15:48 pm
content: No excuse for not testing for microwaves, all you need is a hand held broad band sensor.Here is my version detecting the leakage from a properly operating microwave oven. Cost me about $0.65 for the microwave diode.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 06:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: JimRemington on September 02, 2018, 06:15:48 pmI am interested in that. Can you post the design?

author: JimRemington
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 08:18:39 pm
content: That particular detector is a full wave square loop antenna (~2 GHz, lambda/4 = 3.75 cm) with a microwave detector diode, type HSMS-286K, in series with an LED.Based onhttp://www.creative-science.org.uk/mobile_LED_simple.html

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 08:28:42 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 02, 2018, 04:38:53 pmI would say the same thing about Russia conducting assassinations in the UK yet it keeps happening.QuoteI agree it is dumb and given that there is no direct evidence, mass hysteria is more likely but never underestimate national stupidity.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 08:51:27 pm
content: Speaking of the "why" aspect probably the most likely in the Cuba situation would be to prevent or deter the US from closer relations with Cuba. Attack the US embassy in this way and hope the US blames Cuba. The goal, if this was the strategy, would be to prevent closer relations between the US and Cuba. The current US admin has already moved to undo some of the easing that took place in the prior admin though I doubt the attack on the embassy played a major role in this change as Cuba has, since the late 50s, always been a political football in the US.So, without knowing what really happened the fact that brain scans indicate damage suggests something did in fact happen. This is not likely the work of a disgruntled Cuban intelligence officer bent on attacking the US, where would that person get something capable of doing what appears has in fact happened. I'm not fully convinced on the microwave idea, but I wouldn't say its impossible either.Brian

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 08:56:58 pm
content: The assumption most posters are making is that embassy staff are being attackedat the embassy. This doesn't appear to be what happened. Staff are complaining of symptoms at their residences, hotel rooms at night when they are sleeping. At least from what I read of the Canadian and some of the US victim reports. One would expect the embassy itself is hardened and not an easy target. As for motive, if you can disrupt diplomatic staff "extracurricular" activities by causing them to experience brain fog and not have your efforts detected, then the risk threshold is low ( or would be perceived as low).

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 09:06:10 pm
content: Hi,This is probably, if not certainly, fake news. In fact, it microwaves were a problem, then airport staff all over the world would report sickness. I mean, just look at those powerful radars! Microwaves can only cause thermal damage, but that would require a person to be closed inside a metal box with the emitter, just like it happens inside a microwave oven.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 09:12:51 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on September 02, 2018, 08:56:58 pmwhere are the victim reports?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 09:18:29 pm
content: The phrase “sonic attack” caught on quickly after employees reported having heard a constant high-pitched, tinny hum emanating from certain corners of the embassy that would become inaudible if a person moved just a few feet away.https://www.thedailybeast.com/were-the-cuban-sonic-attack-victims-actually-poisonedhoweverThe victim complained of hearing extremely loud grinding insect-like noises, and a laser-like sound, but also believes other attacks took place silently overnight. This individual says that beyond attacks targeting homes and hotel rooms, one American embassy employee also experienced an attack inside the hulking U.S. compound.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cuba-attack-victim-we-were-ignored/

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 09:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: bloguetronica on September 02, 2018, 09:06:10 pmThe brain scans argue otherwise!Brian

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 09:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on September 02, 2018, 09:45:38 pmMRI scans of the U.S. personnel were largely normal, apart from three individuals with nonspecific abnormalities in their white matter—the axons that link nerve cells—that appear to be unrelated to the new syndrome, Smith says. The clear scans are not surprising, he says, because standard MRIs generally don’t reveal signs of a concussion. Rather, damage to the brain’s connections is picked up by a finer-grained MRI technique, diffusion tensor imaging (DTI). The UPenn team is planning to conduct DTI scans of the diplomats. Any connectivity damage should still be visible, Smith says, because DTI scans can pick up such abnormalities months or even years after a concussion.http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/us-diplomats-cuba-have-unusual-brain-syndrome-no-there-s-no-clear-proof-they-were

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 09:53:39 pm
content: can anyone find the DTI scan results? if publishedif someone wants to start lookinghttps://news.google.com/search?q=cuban%20embassy&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3AenI feel like the eevblog investigation is chaotic. We need to go through the facts and see what posters are saying, from what news articles its taken, how the story has mutated as facts developed and what is misinformation and what is known fact.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 10:07:36 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on September 02, 2018, 08:56:58 pm\Also think about this, there is 24 victims (i think), so you are saying they got a team of 24 (probobly at least a few guys per guy if it was indeed some kind of attack) to shadow 24 different people living in all different areas?Thats 72 people doing field work, backed up by a few officers at least depening on how their organized. Maybe more if you need to do something like watch streets for cops and whatnot and coordinate everything, IMO this would require at least 100 people to pull off.You don't leave this kind of transmitter unattended if it exists.Where the hell are you going to get 100 quiet trustworthy people to pull off such an attack without some kind of serious fevor going on? Hardened spetznaz?Also you would need to manufacture like 24 transmitters if they are all hearing it in their houses (these things don't teleport and moving them around is likely suspicious and always risky because you can get stopped, so what your gonna risk wasting cops on the street?). It's a crazy amount of exposure.That would be a seriously large black operation that would be expensive and difficult to contain. Other then like MK ULTRA and such tis pretty much unprecedented but you must wonder if those programs evolved to different forms.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 11:06:34 pm
content: Like this I guess?(the image is the "Gauss gun" from Syndicate (1993)

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 11:17:35 pm
content: what game is that

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 02:34:40 am
content: Syndicate (1993)

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 02:41:55 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on September 02, 2018, 08:51:27 pmAlso I thought of this: Cuba is cooperating, meaning its wasting its police and investigatory forces if it staged the attack. So you have to wonder, if Putin paying off the Cuban government with some kind of slush fund? If no immediate steps were taken, does the Cuban government really trust the Russian government enough to 'spot' some kind of benefit in the future? If they did not get an immediate payoff of some kind, they defiantly know they can get completely ripped off. They know America can hurt them real bad if they decide to do something like a full naval blockade.That means you have a bunch of high tech equipment and operatives that have highly classified information in Cuba. If the government is not cooperating then you are more likely to get captured. For a false flag its really out there IMO.Ok, assuming they attacked people in their houses and attacked the embassy, this means what, you either go through customs with like 100 people over how long a period? smuggling in equipment slowly... Or, you notice the Cuban government is really shitty, so you find a bunch of special forces that look like they belong there indiginously (good luck Russia or china, where the fuck are you gonna find trust worthy mercenaries or internal forces that won't stand out in Spanish Cuba), use an operative or computer hackers to generate a bunch of false identities and move them in using a submarine. Then what, do they slowly immigrate out? stay there the rest of their lives? disappear back on a submarine? I doubt they could just use old spies for this, because any of them could be compromised, and this would be super juicy.Cuba is mad poor, the resources they have towards anti curruption and police work are already pretty low, the cuban goverment knows that if its wasting its own guys on cooperating with the FBI when they know its bogus, criminal activity will prosper... so for a poor country like that, its shooting yourself in the foot... does not make sense unless their compensated some how. Plus the police are very busy running a police state to prevent cuban freedom movements from getting strong. The FBI will probably notice if they are doing a half assed job.I still think its too crazy to be some kind of physics based attack. Poison maybe, a squad of a few people could break into a bunch of houses and poison food I guess. It would need to be well planned but you would need much less people then to maintain a buncha secret equipment all over the fucking place. Russia sure likes poison. They can probably engineer something with a time delay. But this would require some kind of novel poison.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 02:52:26 am
content: If there is something mad in this story than this is your ideas.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 07:09:30 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 03, 2018, 02:41:55 amIt is possible that the noise and other things were theater to cover the use of a chemical agent of some kind -- you know, a diversion. And, as you rightly point out, Russia is not averse to using chemical or even radioactive agents to harm/kill people.The thing with Putin's Russia though is that they like the world to know they did it hence the use of agents no street criminal can get there hands on, but in this case they, if they were involved, they have made no effort at all to say they did it unless the measures used is the signature. But, you have to recognize the signature.The fact that there are many people effected and some exhibit damage to there brains suggest that something indeed is going on, but just what is being used and by whom is in my mind -- not settled. The idea that Russia might wish to keep the US from becoming too friendly with Cuba is, perhaps, the most reasonable reason does tend to point a finger at them, but absent something more definitive as a cause there's too little to go on and too many possibilities. The only other culprit that comes to mind might be Venezuela, but one would think they are not quite in the spy-versus-spy league as is Russia, the UK and the USA.Brian

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 07:46:03 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on September 01, 2018, 07:52:41 pmMicrowave dishes are normally used to either convert what is near enough a "point source" into, effectively, parallel rays or vice versa.The only place they are focused is at the feedpoint, so they would have to get the victims to place their heads accurately inside the dish!Normal masonry walls attenuate microwaves quite heavily, so you'd need a lot of power.People move around, so, even if you somehow solved the "focusing" problem, you are stuck with tracking them.Blasting hard earned microwave energy into an empty floor of a building would be a bit self defeating.Surely this is a case were the much maligned "tinfoil hat" could be used to prove, or disprove, the microwave hypothesis?

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 10:06:21 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on September 02, 2018, 02:02:37 amI've had several done recently (nose, shoulder, neck). What I heard was vibrtion from the magnets apart from the usual clattering. Some of the funny artifacts were beating/phasing effects due to magnets running at somewhat different frequencies. I didn't hear any sounds "inside my head" or from strange directions.Trying to figure out what I was hearing helped me endure 2.5 hours inside the thing. I am not claustrophobic (I have done spelunking in the past) but it can be boring even for a clam.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 02:44:22 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on September 03, 2018, 07:09:30 amIf it's poison / one time exposure thing then they can do alot to size up the people doing it using epidemology techniques. I believe there were actually some algorithms developed to basically look at crimes which may or may not be related (for serial killers) and use time constants related to travel and factors like transportation routes, traffic, weather conditions and all sorts of other factors so they can kind of predict when and possibly where a next strike will occur, but it might also be possible to use similar techniques to figure out how many perpetrators there are.. I think it's kind of like the bridges problem with velocity/propagation delay, so you can get minimum and maximum numbers for how many delivery trucks you need to carry out a delivery within however many days.What is scary is Russias cyber offensive capabilities, I wonder if they could totally hack the airports and stuff to make a large group of people untraceable. Cuban infrastructure is probably very weak, but they might use paper?Venezula is interesting because they think westerners killed their leader with radioactive materials. But driving a handful of people crazy does not really make sense as a vengeance action. But maybe they decided to use realpolitk after that point.I think this is kind of the problem with sanctions, you end up getting a country that has a weak police force and other players that can easily overpower it and use it as pawn. I bet there are no surveillance cameras in Cuba (I am guessing the FBI is interviewing old ladies that stare out the windows). I always wanted peace with them so I don't have to deal with a slum next doors. Slums always bring problems. Compare Mexico to Canada. If they were a rich belligerent nation you can at least easily tell if they are hampering the investigation.. with Cuba it feels like a coin toss. I think most of their cars are from the 1950's, its like a little Africa.But doesn't this all seem odd? I mean I can't even imagine a James Bond film about this.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2018, 03:16:28 am
content: I located a likely suspect.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:48:19 am
content: Apparently the US Intelligence agencies, siting intercepts and other data, is pointing the finger at Russia in the attack on the US embassy staff in Cuba. I'll wait to see if more info is forthcoming given the limits on how much they can reveal about sources and methods, but this is not all that unexpected and is, in fact, one of the ideas some of us have talked about here. The US believes the purpose was to prevent Cuba from getting too close to the USA. Again, this is exactly what some of us have suspected was the reason. Still not much info and not much on the actual weapons/agents used -- again, I wonder how much will be revealed given the need to protect the sources and methods.Putin is going well beyond the norms with the use of 'little green men' in Crimea and western Ukraine, the poisoning of people in the UK, and the pervasive use of trolls in social media effecting pretty much everyone. This guy is a threat to the planet.Brian

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 02:59:59 pm
content: These things are a menace if you bite into them fresh out the microwaveThis could be psychological torture, waiting for them to cool down...

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 07:14:22 pm
content: Quote from: In Vacuo Veritas on September 12, 2018, 02:59:59 pmAs a comedian once said ... I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back in time!Brian

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:31:17 pm
content: Quotehttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/06/sonic-attack-on-us-embassy-in-havana-could-have-been-crickets-say-scientists

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:54:13 am
content: Look up 'retroreflector'.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 05:26:48 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 14, 2019, 02:54:13 amCould you give better context, please?Microwave corner reflectors are large and obvious:Quote from: Howardlong on January 13, 2019, 06:31:17 pmDo not waste time blocking your ears.Do not waste time seeking a soundproof shelter.Do not panic...Use those seconds sensibly or you will inevitably die!

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 08:14:46 am
content: Quote from: helius on January 14, 2019, 05:26:48 amPut as much of your body in a metal box and point the enterance of said box towards the floor?

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2020, 11:27:54 pm
content: I realize how long it has been since a response in the thread, but The National Academy of Sciences report on this issue just came out and this seems like the appropriate place.An Assessment of Illness in U.S. Government Employees and Their Families at Overseas Embassies (2020)PDF download of the report is available:https://www.nap.edu/download/25889I paid a lot of attention to this when it was occurring but grew frustrated with the lack of facts that were available. I was particularly annoyed by "explanations" of chemical or viral effects and even "mass hysteria (which, IMO, is not a thing).Lifting a few sentences from the Plausible Mechanisms section:The committee found the unusual presentation of acute, directional or location-specific early phase signs, symptoms and observations reported by DOS employees to be consistent with the effects of directed, pulsed radio frequency (RF) energy. Many of the chronic, nonspecific symptoms are also consistent with known RF effects, such as dizziness, headache, fatigue, nausea, anxiety, cognitive deficits, and memory loss.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 12:49:23 am
content: You can find the exact same "non specific symptoms" in pretty much Any prescriptions drug list of side effects.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 10:33:48 am
content: Quote from: Bud on December 06, 2020, 12:49:23 amYes, perhaps all the people effected were taking the same prescription drugs?Seriously, something happened to cause many of the staff to experience these symptoms with a strong correlation with time and place -- kind of suggests something other than prescription drugs and the fact that pulsed RF can do this and there is a desire to do it and the means to do it ...Brian

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 06:02:01 pm
content: Has anyone asked Paul Brodeur?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 11:35:38 am
content: I was too lazy to read the report, but I still find it highly unlikely that the source of this phenomenon was "directed, pulsed radio frequency (RF) energy". How would this explain that the sounds were actually recorded on smart phones? Besides, even if the Frey effect really exists (since there doesn't seem to be any scientific model how it's supposed to work), the few people who ever were affected by it described it as faint(!) clicking sound and not as terrible noise. And these people were working near radar units in WWII and the like. To hit someone with this kind of energy inside his/her apartments without clearly visible antenna arrays seems somewhat impossible.I still think the most plausible root cause would be some ultrasonic device that caused interferences (or intermodulation distortion) in the acoustic range. Which doesn't mean that the devices causing this were necessarily developed to cause harm. The article I quoted at the beginning of this thread e.g. named ceiling-mounted ultrasonic room-occupancy sensors. Taking into account that we're talking about embassy employees, maybe the embassy has installed ultrasonic jammers that are supposed to cause microphones to malfunction.Of course all of this would just cause noise but honestly all the other symptoms seem rather vague. And surely a sound that you can't locate, that keeps you from sleeping etc. will also cause side effects like feeling tired etc.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 06:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on December 11, 2020, 11:35:38 amI think it is unfortunate that you didn't read the report. Not going to start a big fight as I am also "too lazy" to do a lot of stuff. I hope you will take the time to read the report. They had a defined task and they were given a certain amount of information. The report does not present a definitive answer and they are quite clear about that (e.g., "Plausible Explanations"). Personally, I like that they analyzed the data they had and did so in, what seems to me to be, reasonable fashion. They were contracted to do the work and their work was reviewed.As for the "recorded sounds" issue that you mentioned. I remember those and never felt that they had much credibility...Cell phone recordings of the alleged sonic attack were provided to an Associated Press reporter by an anonymous source in the State Department. But the sounds were identified by Yamile González Sánchez, an official at the Ministry of Public Health, and physicist Carlos Barceló Pérez, a professor at the National Institute of Hygiene, as those made by local insects, which they recorded on the scene. Moreover, the sounds, all in the audible range (about 7 kilohertz), would have overdriven the microphone—preventing it from recording—if they were loud enough to damage hearing.https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ldquo-sonic-weapon-attacks-rdquo-on-u-s-embassy-don-rsquo-t-add-up-mdash-for-anyone/and alsohttps://apnews.com/article/88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 09:47:05 pm
content: My bet is contaminated "nose sugar".Everything they reported matches accidental long-term exposure to some chemical. If it was from food, low-grade manufacturing materials, or anything otther innocent, it'd have shown up in their bloodwork.But, if it was from contamination of recreational chemicals, especially intravenous or applied to mucous membranes, much smaller amounts would produce large enough effects. All officials would be very keen to keep any such findings under wraps, even letting all sorts of ridiculous conspiracy theories to fly, to not lose face: even though it is well known that many diplomats like to have their fun in their downtime, having to admit them using illegal recreational chemicals would be a PR catastrophe.Much better to concoct a story about microwave or sonic weaponry, and try to raise more"everyone is against us"mentality among USians. It's exactly the kind of PR move you'd expect.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 10:25:33 pm
content: I think its a bit much to try to blame drug use on mass psychosis-resembling-thing in a overseas embassy in a not so friendly place. Maybe you could say that in a posh european embassy, but then there would probobly be reports of a rave-gone-bad in the news. Yea they are not just gonna get 70 people coked up with the same stuff and hit up some of fidels havana clubs. Thats a bit much even for a jack black feature (i assume this is taken from 'the brink').

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 11:11:22 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 11, 2020, 10:25:33 pmSo you think a microwave or a sonic weapon aimed at anembassyis more likely than contaminated recreational substances? Yeah, right.Quote from: coppercone2 on December 11, 2020, 10:25:33 pmNo, that'snotwhy and how diplomatic staff use certain illicit substances. This is stuff they take exactly because when the work is so stressful, especially for lower-level people. (They, and the higher ups, are the ones who will be blamed whenever something goes wrong.)A lot of these substances are even prescribed by a doctor. That's what makes it so likely. Admitting they have a supply chain issue is one thing, but admitting to the public the staff has a supply chain for various substances widely abused, is a double whammy. Blaming someone else is so much easier and safer.You're a good example of why spreading those conspiracy theories is so effective. You're more willing to believe other countries would target your embassies with experimental microwave or sonic weaponry, than think anything negative of the staff, their substance use, or consider the willingness of your government to hide such.You really need to have yourmeter checked!Quote from: coppercone2 on December 11, 2020, 10:25:33 pmHaven't seen it.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 11:52:06 pm
content: I still call BS on this as well. There are other far more plausible explanations for the symptoms described. I also think that any US embassy, in particular one in a place like Cuba or China would have a lot of ELINT equipment, which would have easily picked up and localized such emissions - they are not exactly subtle.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 01:01:14 am
content: For the record: as far as I recall, the embassy employees heard these noises in their homes or in a hotel,notin the embassy.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 02:40:41 am
content: im saying highly paid embassy staff getting bad drugs in mass that all have the same effect on 70 people around the same time is about as likely as space aliens doing itMaybe if it happened in a cult compound in the back of texas I might believe that

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 06:18:36 am
content: I certainly find illicit drug use by embassy employees credible. But it starts pushing credibility pretty hard when you get seventy of them apparently starting (or at least all using the same bad dope) at roughly the same time. That implies that they all had the same pusher and all used a common stockpile since private stashes of different sizes would spread the effects over time. Such large groups of sharing users doesn't fit any pattern I have ever encountered.Any horse can be ridden until it drops. Without real data they all will be.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 06:23:54 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 12, 2020, 06:18:36 amyea and they all took it at he same time and no one just said in the hospital that they took drugsOnce people start having side effects from drugs they are pretty honest with doctors (oh shit maybe I need my stomach pumped. I think i might die !). They won't shoot you for it. It's like considered a bad place, if anything the person that assigned them there after 'evaluating' them would get in trouble for some how putting so many people in 1 place that cannot take the pressure.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 09:13:19 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 12, 2020, 06:18:36 amNo, but in such a high-strung environment all you need for a mass psychosis is for a few "seed" people to describe similar effects. Especially when when those who suspect it is their own behaviour that caused it and may seriously negatively affect their own careers, start encouraging others to report similar effects, because they hope or sincirely believe their own behaviour is not – cannot, must not be! – the culprit.Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 12, 2020, 06:18:36 amWhat does that mean?There are literally at least a dozen more likely explanations than microwave or sonic weaponry aimed at an embassy (or at embassy personnel). I can see exactly why any country would prefer to push odd conspiracy theories rather than admit anything untoward in their own embassy.This is even sillier than the 5G conspiracy stuff.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 02:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 12, 2020, 09:13:19 amCan you please list a dozen more likely explanations than microwave or sonic weaponry?Edit:The report cited discusses 1. Chemical exposure, 2.Infectious disease and 3. Psychological issues - so that leaves only 9 more for you to list, although clearly, they did not feel any of the three listed were more likely than directed pulsed RF energy (which the report apparently "(defined as 30KHz-300GHz, including microwave radiation as 300MHz-300GHz).")From p.2 (and there is more discussion elsewhere).The committee also considered chemical exposures, infectious diseases and psychological issues as potential causes or aggravating factors. Although some reports suggested that exposure to organophosphates (OP) and/or pyrethroids from insecticide spraying in Havana could be a cause or contributing factor, the committee concluded that this mechanism was not likely because there was no convincing evidence of acute high-level exposures and the clinical histories of affected U.S. Embassy personnel were not consistent with acute OP poisoning. However, as insecticides can increase the risk or severity of adverse outcomes after exposure to a wide variety of physical or psychosocial stressors, the committee cannot rule out subacute or chronic OP and/or pyrethroid exposures as a possible contributing factor to nonspecific chronic symptoms.Infectious agents known to be prevalent in Cuba at the time of the U.S. Embassy cases and capable of causing neurological manifestations most prominently include Zika, which was epidemic in Cuba in 2016-2017. However, after reviewing the medical and public health literature, the committee found it highly unlikely that Zika was the cause of the constellation of signs and symptoms reported among DOS personnel.The acute initial, sudden-onset, distinctive, and unusual symptoms and signs are difficult to ascribe to psychological and social factors. However, the significant variability and clinical heterogeneity of the illnesses affecting DOS personnel leave open the possibility of multiple causal factors including psychological and social factors. These factors could exacerbate other causes of illness and cannot be ruled out as contributing to some of the cases, especially some of the chronic symptoms or later in the course of illness in some cases. Finally, the committee concurred with the diagnosis of persistent postural-perceptual dizziness (PPPD), a functional (not psychiatric) vestibular disorder that may be triggered by vestibular, neurologic, other medical and psychological conditions and may explain some chronic signs and symptoms in some patients.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 02:20:17 pm
content: "Any horse can be ridden...."Means that purveyors of any of the many possible explanations of this will continue to expand and expound on why their pet theory about the true cause. Until the whole stack of cards falls, which may effectively be never.The following sentence just means that I choose not to believe any of them, drugs, microwaves or other until credible and overwhelming evidence is available. Someone may know the truth, or it may have some root cause that wasn't the result of anyone's directed activity (chemical leak?). But public information doesn't make anything I'm aware of probable. Including yours. Possible, but not so probable as to dismiss any other possible explanation.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 03:01:16 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 12, 2020, 02:20:17 pmSounds like you are basically saying - "we just don't know and we may never know unless incontrovertible proof is found, in which case, we will go with that." Uhm ok, but if one takes too hard of line there, we have no directed way to address issues like treatment for those afflicted and recommendations to mitigate the re-occurrence of such incidents.Yes, I agree, anyone can throw out their pet theory and so forth as you have said. It is precisely for that reason that I posted about the availability of the results of an investigation by SMEs who consulted with more SMEs and who offer citations and reasoning behind what they consider plausible and what they consider not plausible or, simply, less likely. Furthermore, their evaluations are reviewed by other SMEs and, finally, a report comes out and nowhere do they say that they have the answer, but more "this is what we think is plausible and this is why we think that way". It is the antithesis of a "pet theory".Pet theories are not sins, but can we not evaluated them in some systematic manner? For example, you said "Someone may know the truth, or it may have some root cause that wasn't the result of anyone's directed activity (chemical leak?)." Well, those could be considered, to some extent, to be two pet theories.I like the approach where we present some evidenced-based approach to anchor what we can consider as being plausible. This can be done while concurrently holding the belief that we don't absolutely "know" what happened. That, IMO, is what the referenced report did and why I posted.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 08:20:18 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on December 12, 2020, 02:12:24 pmIn no particular order,Completely known but suppressed causes, with the report pushing conspiracy theories for political reasons (compare to "Russian bots" now "observed" everywhere on the 'net)Completely known but suppressed causes to protect national security (compare to the 2001 antrax attacks, or CIA involvement in drug trafficking; anything illicit related to the actions of the embassy or embassy personnel)Alkaloid contamination of consumables (most common cause of mass psychosis like effects)Alkaloid contamination of consumables in a small number of individuals, with the high-stress environment causing psychological duplication of symptomsStress-triggered (histamine-triggered) chemical contamination of consumables (slow release from substandard construction materials; compare to prevalence of problems with formaldehyde release from materials)Low-level chemical environmental contamination (herbicides etc.)Infrasound pollution from natural sources (insects etc), with higher-frequency components filtered out by the environment (building structures)Infrasound pollution from accidental human sources (diesel engines, traffic/manufacturing noise transmitted and amplified through concrete structures)Exposure to microwave radiation due to malfunctioning equipmentLong-term exposure to strong magnetic fields due to malfunctioning equipmentRepeated low-level bacterial infection in the inner earViral infection in the inner ear, brain, or intestinesQuote from: DrG on December 12, 2020, 02:12:24 pmYou treat it as a scientific report, while it clearly is a political one: by a political committee, with the purpose of explaining why the embassy personnel was affected.Even if there was scientific evidence proving US government culpability, such a report would never, ever admit the culpability. Outrageous claims are simply a political tool.Note that the fact that this was an US embassy in Cuba is, to me, just a detail, and nothing significant. Feel free to change the countries, and my assessment still stands.For example, let's consider an imaginary Finnish-Norwegian border incident, where fine refined uranium dust of Russian origin was exchanged in order to facilitate a false flag release of radionuclides by a Russian submarine in the Arctic to curb Russian expansionism in the Northern polar waters, but the container failing and causing an automatically detected radionuclide bloom. Instead of admitting that the incident was caused by sanctioned but secret and politically indefensible activity, thecover storywould most likely involve a claim aboutSovietRussian radionuclide smugglers; but if there was proof only Finnish and Norwegian personnel was present, then the cover story could be anything, even completely ridiculous, like say a cryptid with a radioactive fart, an invisible experimental nuclear-powered air/spacecraft, or even aliens.This is how politicians work.If any kind of experimental weaponry is involved, there being exactly two countries on this planet having dabbled with experimental weaponry without having a scientific basis on their effects (starting at remote viewing), it is most likely that the embassy personnel were exposed to an US own experiment (i.e., leakage, or a badly run experiment). The only reason this made any news was that the embassy personnel leaked concerns about their health issues to news outlets, before they could be gagged by a court order.I find itextremelyfunny to see people here defend claims about experimental weaponry with zero scientific evidence that the claimed effect on humans even exists, while at the same time the same people get really frustrated in the 5G thread how easily people are misled with horrible rubbish claims.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 08:46:46 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 12, 2020, 08:20:18 pmI will respond only to respectfully acknowledge your post (my request for a response) and to say that it is clear to me that you and I are probably from different planets

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 09:14:21 pm
content: well its gonna be hard to talk about this on the internet because it relates to the american state department so it will get attacked relentlessly. i will spare you the analogies that come to mind, since bush 90% of the worlds population would like to attribute faults to them, most countries just consider them suspicious

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 10:24:00 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on December 12, 2020, 08:46:46 pmI will neither confirm nor deny such an allegation.Quote from: coppercone2 on December 12, 2020, 09:14:21 pmAnd defended relentlessly, because ofAmerican exceptionalism.I don't really blame anyone for believing in the political report about microwave or sonic weaponry, though. To me, it simply does not differ from the people fearing 5G. Both are just victims of misinformation, without sufficient understanding of the context to be able to deal with it critically and rationally. Misinformed, not evil or stupid; perhaps, at worst, somewhat closed-minded and not critical enough of their own beliefs.That is not to say there is nothing there, though. The embassy staff health issues are real, even if partially psychosomatic. And obviously I could be completely wrong, too.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 11:26:14 pm
content: My neighbour's dog has a nasty habit of attacking my fence, which is damaging it. I'm very tempted to point a magnetron at the other side of the fence and power it, when the little bugger attacks.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 11:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on December 12, 2020, 11:26:14 pmHave you checked yourself for alkaloid contamination which is, as we all know, the most common cause of mass psychosis like effects (see St Vitas dance or St Alphonso's pancake breakfast). Alternatively, your fence may actually be a political invention and not even exist. The dog could be there as a subliminal representative of Brexit. The problem is that you don't know how dogs work....and you are looking at this as though it were reality and I know it is not reality and feel absolutely no responsibility to even attempt to be rational, offer anything that even remotely looks like evidence to a sane person, but I will certainly tell you that you have no idea how to power a fence with a dog and that is why we have magnetrons and all these 5G nutjobs.At some point, certainly before adulthood, we come to agree that 2+2=4. Then, someone comes around and says, NO! 2+2=3 and all of the "3 lovers" screamed and ranted...finally someone understood them...and the adults could do little but sadly sigh as the "3 lovers" were persistent, loud, and absolutely certain that they were right....to be continued as a modern children's fairy tale.