DIP-64 packet. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 12:59:30 pm
content: I came across (for the first time) a DIP-64 packet micro. It is HUGE! Was it common back then?Alexander.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 01:04:57 pm
content: I've only seen it for the 68000 and the 68010, but there might be a couple of others.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 07:00:08 pm
content: 64 pin DIPs were common for any 16 bit processor which did not use a multiplexed address and data bus. The large number of pins this required added significantly to the cost making lower pin count processors with multiplexed address and data buses like the 8086 popular.Another common processor in a 64 pin DIP and contemporary to the 68000 was theTexas Instruments TMS9900series.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 11:13:36 am
content: Congratulations, now find a 64-pin SIP.EDIT: I found a "64pin SIP IC Socket".Just for lols.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 12:12:05 pm
content: I seem to remember larger versions of thishttp://marketplace.vintage-computer.com/listing/256k-sipp-dram-module-80-ns/109247type of RAM module that went up to 64 pins.

author: martinator
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 12:21:30 pm
content: I wonder why they didn't use the Quad in-line package for the 68000, the NMOS one gets quite warm so maybe it was a heat issue?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 12:34:01 pm
content: Quote from: martinator on December 05, 2017, 12:21:30 pmI think it was just timing. The QUIL packages came a little later than the 68000. I think it was probably the hassle caused by the huge size of the 68000 that inspired the development of the QUIL packages. I think there were some 68000s in QUIL packages just before the PLCCs started to take off.

author: Selectech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 01:19:20 pm
content: AMD made a bipolar part that was originally in large format DIP package. Also included a math co-processor in same format. Used these & wrote microcode on a few projects.http://www.cpushack.com/2013/08/31/amd-am29116-a-bit-better-than-a-bit-slice-processor/There's probably others.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 01:35:02 pm
content: Quote from: Selectech on December 05, 2017, 01:19:20 pmThe 29116 wasn't as big as the 68000. Counting the pins in the picture on that page it looks like it was 52 pins. As well as being shorter, I don't think it was as wide as the 68000 package. The 29116 was a terrific device for a number of applications. We used them for some graphics and DSPish jobs.The corner pins of these huge packages had noticeably poorer signal quality than the ones near the centre. The traces inside the package were long enough to hurt, however tidily you laid out the PCB, even at the low clock rates of the day. Denser packaging was just as much a requirement for cranking up the clock rates of later devices as was finer geometry on the silicon itself.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:04:52 pm
content: Also, there were K1107PV2 (TDC1007J) and K1107PV6 (TDA1019J), fast (for their time) 8 and 10-bits ADCs:http://www.155la3.ru/dip_big.htm

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on December 05, 2017, 05:04:52 pmWhat were all those pins used for?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:25:37 pm
content: Plenty of Sharp made DIP100 IC's were made as well, though they were not 0.1in spacing but rather 0.05in spacing between the pins. They were very common in consumer equipment like VCR's and such, getting 100 or more pins into the chip before things like surface mount bacame common. They survived well into the SMD age though, often used in a mixed design as the old chips were already made and the only thing being done was size reduction of the equipment, the IC being a legacy design.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 05, 2017, 05:14:32 pm"Not connected" inPV2. InPV6they were used as additional pins for power/analog signal input/reference voltage connection and also for inverted digital output and inverted clock input.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:53:25 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 05, 2017, 05:25:37 pmVarious Japanese companies made quite a few 0.07" pitch DIPs, but 0.05" DIPs were unusual. The packages with 0.05" pitch leads usually had them formed into the QUIL layout.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 12:53:44 am
content: The ones in the photo are from an ancient dot matrix printer and a CRT TV.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 01:00:32 am
content: Quote from: Bud on December 06, 2017, 12:53:44 amThose are 0.07" pitch packages.

author: mairo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 02:48:37 am
content: I have one (maybe more) of these bad boys too.The date code is from 92, it came from something like an German made MRI machine.How do I make the pictures visible?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 05:59:38 am
content: Super Z-80, or Hitachi HD64180 from 1985 used the shrink DIP 64 package.It competed with the PLCC-68 package, which eventually won.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:35:17 am
content: mmm, packages.Crazy how the simple need to pot and connect a die brought so many different designs, sizes, materials, form factors, etc.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 09:31:16 am
content: Yup, 68k was the most famous.My HP 8590A speccy has a graphics chip of some sort, I don't remember which -- also lots of pins, beautiful purple ceramic and gold solder package. Impressive spec for the day, 1024x1024 pixels (black and white), various drawing functions; but between the impressive spec, and the gold package, you can tell the one chip probably cost as much as a whole new VGA card.Tim

author: cgroen
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 09:40:04 am
content: Ahh those daysI also remember large pincount DIP with staggered pins, instead of 2 rows of pins in a normal DIP there were 4 rows. Funny to route...

author: Nauris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 06:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: cgroen on December 06, 2017, 09:40:04 amNot much multilayer pcb's used back in those days, I assume?I just actually did my first 100% thru-hole design on a four layer pcb. THAT was truly the most easiest and pleasant layout job I have ever done. This modern day technology is sometimes so nice it just suprises you.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 06:13:45 pm
content: Quote from: Nauris on December 06, 2017, 06:00:06 pmTook more time to draw the schematic than to set up and run the autorouter?Tim

author: cgroen
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 06:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on December 06, 2017, 06:13:45 pmAh yes, the "autorouter" was me, transparent paper and tapeAt least the layout was done in scale 2:1 so it was a little easier to handle

author: Nauris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 06:58:21 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on December 06, 2017, 06:13:45 pmWell, I am not that advanced yet to have autorouter (it was analog board anyway). But if you have the possibility to put 12 traces between the pins on PDIP, it is quite trivial to route even manually

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: cgroen on December 06, 2017, 09:40:04 amDo you mean these Rockwell MCU's? They were pretty tough to get in/out of an IC socket.

author: cgroen
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 09:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on December 06, 2017, 08:28:55 pmExactly! Although I think I remember I did designs with some devices with close to 100 pins or so. But they were funny

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 04:13:54 am
content: Quote from: firewalker on December 04, 2017, 12:59:30 pmI've only seen them for Motorola 68000 processors and their ilk, but they certainly are monsters, huh? Looks like an aircraft carrier with a bunch of escorts around it.This is the processor board from an HP 3561A Dynamic Signal Analyzer built in the mid 80s. The dual inline package was the prevalent package type when the chip came out, so I suppose it made sense at the time to simply scale it up. I know some of the other packages were coming out in the mid-late 70s too, but don't believe that they had yet become particularly 'mainstream' yet.-Pat

author: fourtytwo42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 10:22:02 am
content: Another 64 pin DIP from the 70's was the TRW 16x16 bit MAC chip that we used in digital modems and others in radar/sonar etc. Still available on Ebay if you have $100 or so to spare!https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRW-TDC1010J-TDC-1010J-Gold-DIP-IC-Integrated-Circuit-/381696539233?rmvSB=true

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 11:36:17 am
content: Quote from: fourtytwo42 on December 07, 2017, 10:22:02 amThe first 64 pin DIL package device I used was the TMS9900. The second was that TRW chip, although most of the ones we used were actually the AMD compatible chip which came a bit later. It was a mainstay for a lot of military FFT hardware for a while. At one point, we had large boards with one of those 64 pin chips on each. The boards had started out packed with AMD25S05 2x4 bit multiplier chips and carry adders. Just as we started to need a quantity of them, we were able to replace the original design with a board that had just one TRW chip, and a couple of glue chips. That's progress.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 12:49:08 pm
content: The early Macintosh and also I think the Atari ST used a huge 68000 DIP

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 01:48:36 pm
content: Sega Genesis (Megadrive) too, also a Z80-CPU in DIP40.Tim