Shopping.  How long do (chinese) scopes last? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: argile_tile
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 12:58:07 am
content: So I'm thinking "throw away the tek 420a i can't find a power supply replacement*".I'm looking at Hantek $200 - $500 models. I am unsure which and how long they will last. I am guessing if the power dies they will not be repairable. Sohow long should I guess I will own it? That would help me decide between models. (EEVBlog gave a horrid review of "touchpad scope" fnf1rn or what - so that's out the window)Measuring $/(hours_on), low hobby budget.I very much remember the "scopes in the dumpster" EEVblog episode. I'm unsure if I have money to set down $500 if I know the scope will fry itself in a 2 yr. I'd be the $200 customer or even put off getting one if they are 2yr not 10yr builds. (and the features are changing so quick: Hantek is on the move.)Should I consider a $500 low-end Keysight or Tek (that appear to be cheap chinese units) as will "lasting longer and better to own", or no, they will die just as soon and be less featured as to new hantek $500?I'm a linux users I'm not helped by "win10 only", nor will i plug any wire into my PC from any project board. I like "hackable" but - for money - knobs and display and results: are good too.Tek 420a: slowly had issues coming on - then just stopped. Caps were good. I think the transformer was dead (my chart says - i disconnected it completely after suspicion ran many tests - sometimes using power from the ps), I couldn't be sure. No schematic available u kno. I burned the ps up after about 100 tests transformer I/O i mistakenly shorted it went right to power control IC (i was searching for possible issue that wasn't transformer's fault with just a multimeter). I (assume) I can't replace the ps - there are like 40+ pins to power - at least three voltages, and who knows what they didn't document on 20 pins they didn't documentScope obviously was not connected during any test whatsoever - sure it works still.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:08:45 am
content: I have an 11 year old UNI-T that looks like the day I took it out of the box. A round-about estimate is 8,000 power-on hours or about $0.20 per hour. I would not consider UNI-T to be the best made scope out there. I am sure a Siglent or Rigol would be a better bet, but the UNI-T shows no signs of getting worn out or failing. But now it's back in it's box looking for a buyer. YMMV.The Siglent 2000XP and 1000X-E series scopes (I have both) have web interfaces, Ethernet connectivity, are trivially hackable, and are orders of magnitude better built scopes than the UNI-T. But time will tell...BTW, my Tek 465 (about 45 years old) is still going strong and it's cost per POH is probably similar to the UNI-T.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:14:28 am
content: They're probably fine, but don't throw away the Tek, even with a bad power supply it can be sold. I finally managed to fix both of the TDS400's I have, both had bad power supplies when I got them.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:24:25 am
content: Why would you spend $500 on a Hantek when you could get a much better GW Instek, Rigol, or Siglent scope for less?Instek GDS-1054B is currently $350 from Tequipment with EEVblog discount.It even has a 3 year warranty.

author: argile_tile
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:27:07 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 15, 2023, 01:14:28 amI'm unsure anyone would pay what shipping now costs for a Tek 420a with 1 burned out channel (2 good, 1 mostly-good) and no power. Been on the floor for a year. One Nicad battery is damaged poorly charges.The parts and time to connect 40 "not all known connectors" will cost as much as a UNI-T or Hantek I think. For example: I can say "taken an old PC supply it has 12V 5V", but 5V on a PC supply is thin: the scope uses ALLOT of amps on 5V. It's not cheap to fix at all - I think. And oh did i loose the ROM by having a bad battery?Unless you have adviceI actually have a large old OS transformer that "might power it has many taps" ... but I don't want to burn up a good transformer unless I know the specs on the 420a: i would burn out a heavy transformer for no good reason. on the other hand, buying TI discrete parts part by part on mouser for 40 pins connecting them all for the watts this things needs: that's gonna cost allot really.

author: argile_tile
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:27:47 am
content: Quote from: edavid on February 15, 2023, 01:24:25 amthank you i'll consider that. i was just looking at UN-T

author: argile_tile
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:36:53 am
content: I saw ALLOT of complaints on many ($200 $500 chinese scopes) on AMAZON.COM. It'swhy I asked."failed after hours of use", "failed after days of use", "screen is corrupted on arrival", "failed just after 1 yr warrantee", and so on. Complaints filed on many models even on EDU tek and keysight.It's good to hear people who bought and used them believe they can last 8 years. They have only a 1yr warrantee. I can affordthat, I really can't afford a flash in the pan, is all.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 03:37:21 am
content: Quote from: argile_tile on February 15, 2023, 01:36:53 amThere are a number of choices that won't have those issues. I'd recommend the Siglent 1104X-E, $464 on Amazon with no such complaints and a 3 year warranty. You can sometimes find them on sale for a bit less, or perhaps TEquipment will have a lower net price for you at $499 + 6% discount for EEVBlog + free shipping + maybe no tax.The 420A won't sell for much and about the only thing going for it is the TekProbe interface. I'd be tempted to tear it apart and use the parts to make a TekProbe adapter, but I don't think it would be easy to get all of the functionality to work--although you may not need it and I'm not sure the 420A has all the features either.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 03:51:23 am
content: A working TDS420 should fetch $100-$250 depending on condition. Looks like prices are finally starting to come down, they were pretty crazy for a while. I have a couple of TDS400 scopes and quite like them actually, they're not as nice as the newer TDS scopes but they work well and the display is usually nice and sharp.As for failures of low cost scopes, you have to look at the overall reviews. Nobody logs in after a year to say their scope is still working, they only write something if it breaks.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 06:36:43 am
content: Quote from: argile_tile on February 15, 2023, 01:36:53 amIn the 10 years we've sold Siglent, AFAIK all are still operating.IMO don't buy from Amazon but instead select an authorised dealer that will stand behind the products they sell.We deal with Siglent HQ and TBH we couldn't wish for better support and backup in the case of warranty which is very rare for us. Siglent offer a 3 year warranty on equipment and 1 yr on probes.Their branch in Ohio will give just as good support.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 09:15:53 am
content: Quote from: argile_tile on July 14, 1970, 12:44:04 amIf it was you who damaged those channels, I wouldn't expect the inputs of a Chinese scope to be a rugged as those on a TEK.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 09:39:05 am
content: I wouldn't go for the rock-bottom brands like Hantek or Owon. They're very limited.There's no reason other Chinese brands won't last 10 or 20 years. Rigol/Siglent/GW-Instek brands are rock solid.Quote from: argile_tile on February 15, 2023, 01:36:53 amYeah, that's "Amazon" users for you.The very first thing they probably did with them was connect them to mains electricity with the probe on 1x setting just to see the pretty sine waves.You aren't going to do that, are you?

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 12:44:35 pm
content: May be 30 years?

author: AFTORF
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 12:53:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 15, 2023, 09:39:05 amIt's cheaper than a function generator to make a test !

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:52:33 pm
content: 'Made in China' isn't really a reflection of a product's quality... Pretty much every Apple product is 'made in China' and they seem to set the bar for what consumers expect for quality.Like anywhere else, there's well designed and manufactured gear, and there's cheap low quality merchandise.From my limited experience, provided you steer clear from the non-name cheap rubbish and go with some kind of name brand that carries some respectability (like Rigol, Siglent etc), those products will last as long as anything else in their class.Whereanymodern piece of test gear suffers is in reparability - while you can maintain an old analog scope and find repair documents and replacement parts, modern gear is simply less repairable by the average hobbyist.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 04:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: argile_tile on February 15, 2023, 01:36:53 amForget the C brands like Hantek and Uni-T. The brands you should be considering are Instek, Rigol, and Siglent, and they all have a 3 year warranty. They wouldn't offer that if the scopes weren't reliable. Buy with a suitable credit card and you get an extra year on top of that. Don't buy from Amazon, buy from Tequipment or Saelig and get the EEVblog discount.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 11:40:39 pm
content: > buy from Tequipment or Saelig and get the EEVblog discountTequiptment handles their free shipping with a coupon code - which won't stack with the EEVBlog code. Saelig gives you the free shipping regardless (no code is needed to activate the free shipping). So generally you'll save 20-30 bucks with Saelig.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 12:02:40 am
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on February 15, 2023, 11:40:39 pmThat must be a new policy. They sell on Amazon where I'll get their same price, 5% rebate and free shipping. I'm pretty sure Amazon takes a way bigger bite that way, so not the best move on their part IMO.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 12:57:45 am
content: As others have said, for around $500 you will be much better served by Siglent, Rigol or GW Instek. Forget about Fnirsi, Uni-T, Hantek, Owon (except their USB oscilloscope VDS1102I).Just for the record, I have a Rigol for almost eight years and it still works like a champ. Looks brand new as well. Has its quirks but it is an excellent value for the money.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 10:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on February 15, 2023, 11:40:39 pmI'm not sure where you are getting that. I ordered a new scope in late November of last year directly from tequipment and used the eevblog discount code and received the free shipping as well.To the OP. As others have said, avoid the Hantek and other cheapies. I bought a Hantek as my first scope and sent it back because it kept locking up for a variety of different reasons. I would also recommend looking at Rigol, Siglent or GwInstek if you can afford it. Not that they will be trouble free, but they generally do a decent job of responding to issues and fixing them when they can.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 05:45:32 am
content: Quote from: CustomEngineerer on February 16, 2023, 10:20:24 pmI tried to order an MSO5074 in September and I had to put in the "FREESHIP" coupon code to get free shipping. When I put in the EEVBlog code I got the EEVBlog discount, but the shipping was added back in. I asked in email if they could get me both discounts and they said no, so I went to Saelig.I don't have the emails anymore because my email client perma-deletes mails in the Trash folder after 30 days. I tried the same thing today (but with an SDS1104X-E for whatever reason) and got the same behavior.

author: H713
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 06:24:35 am
content: Quote from: argile_tile on February 15, 2023, 01:36:53 amJust remember, this is a very competitive market, and unless something has changed, Amazon is terrible about policing fake reviews. Who's to say those weren't left by a competing manufacturer?The scopes coming from the far east seem to be fine. Are they as reliable as a Keysight or a Tek? Of course not, but that's what you get for $500. As a guess, I'd expect 10 years of hobby use, or maybe 5 years of constant lab use.Odds are the fault will be an encoder, PSU or display issue, and if you're so inclined, any of these is likely to be pretty fixable even without schematics.I believe my Siglent came with a 3-year warranty, but some of the other Chinese equipment I've bought is 1 year. The only stuff to offer better than than 3 years is pretty high-end and expensive.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 06:24:45 am
content: Quote from: argile_tile on February 15, 2023, 12:58:07 amI don't recall seeinganyrepair threads on this forum where users had to fix a broken Hantek, Owon, Siglent, or Rigol scope. Firmware hacking, modifications (e.g. encoder upgrades, quiet fans), sure -- but no repairs needed, it seems.Personally I have had my DS1054Z for eight years now. Used it quite a bit, lugged it around in a suitcase quite a few times, and it is doing fine. Two of the original probes did fail though. That's just one data point, but the absence of repair threads suggests to me that these entry-level scopes are generally quite robust.Mass production, optimized for good yield, probably helps. As long as the main board and power supply don't run hot (since the engineers skimped on cooling), I would not be too concerned about reliability.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 07:27:44 am
content: Quote from: H713 on February 17, 2023, 06:24:35 amEvidence needed.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 07:34:28 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 17, 2023, 07:27:44 amYep I picked up on that too Fungus.It seems some seem to forget Rigol got its start making scopes for HPAK.And lunch box Teks have been made in the east for decades.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 07:36:24 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 17, 2023, 06:24:45 amThat is due to the fact that they mostly ask these questions in the hacking threads instead of starting new onesAt least I have seen this happen for the FNIRSI scopes, but these are the bottom of the barrel ones.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 08:35:41 am
content: Quote from: H713 on February 17, 2023, 06:24:35 amOdds are that, today, it will be more likely that big brand products will have problems and even built in planned obsolescence. There are many threads from people repairing Keysight scope PSUs, FLASH data roth in Megazoom scopes etc..Lecroy suitcase scopes had pretty bad reliability at one point...Many big brands scopes had bad reliability, but that is usually forgotten because companies usually have maintenance contracts and it gets shrugged off as all is well that ends well...And, funny enough, simple devices are going to be more reliable.And also: Far East? Does that include Japan, that designed and made most reliable devices for HP in legendary days?My brother had bad experience with his Peugeot.. All of them European cars are shit... Is that the reasoning..?Truth is, China, for example, has better functioning space program than the rest of the world combined. And many other examples of premium quality industries. But it is a country that is larger in population than USA and EU combined. They have some manufacturers that established world class product lines and some small local companies that make cheap, questionable stuff that is just cringy. Like any other country. Generalization is not wrong here because it is not PC. It is simply factually wrong and not applicable.Example of Chinese origin manufacturers that make good products and are global players are Siglent and Rigol. They both have global presence, HQ and support on all continents etc. They are real T&M manufacturers. They are world companies in truest sense.If you buy something like Finrsi that comes from some unknown company from somewhere, it is not fact that it is from China that defines the quality. It is the manufacturer that is what it is.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 09:31:35 am
content: Price/brand is no indicator of reliability, eg. Mercedes Benz make some of the least reliable cars.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 11:43:37 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 17, 2023, 08:35:41 amNot sure that's the best example lolQuote from: FungusBut I'd probably trust a European model over a Chrysler. Oh, wait...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 12:04:38 pm
content: Quote from: TomKatt on February 17, 2023, 11:43:37 amThat is exactly the example. People try and find cheapest shit from China and then complain about quality and say everything Chinese is bad..It is about good or bad brands. Not countries.Xiaomi phone I have is superb. Next one will be also be Xiaomi.. I couldn't care less if it is Chinese or not...

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 12:08:03 pm
content: I agree you have a valid point.I guess I was trying to say I'd trust agoodChinese product over the average European car

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 12:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: TomKatt on February 17, 2023, 12:08:03 pmExactly my point

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 12:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 17, 2023, 08:35:41 amPretty much.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 02:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on February 17, 2023, 12:38:19 pmFerrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Spyker, ....

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 02:43:11 pm
content: Traded in my 13 year old Honda with 335K miles a few years ago... Ran like a champ except muffler was shot. Got $3,700.Seems like I've seen a few year old BMW's, Jags etc with 100K or less miles go for lessGermany seems to be a bit better, but all you hear is their electronics are rubbish.Most of our CNC equipment is Italian... Actually fairly reliable but a PITA to service because all the diagnostic stuff is in Italian and you need Google translate to understand it.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 04:12:03 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 17, 2023, 02:25:51 pmAhh yes, the poster boys of reliability and longevity! I think you can actually get 2000km on the average Lamborghini before it needs a $175,000 re-build. Oil changes cost about $1,800 and you need them weekly ..Great cars!(I am exaggerating, but no by much..)

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 04:14:59 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on February 17, 2023, 04:12:03 pmBest to buy a Volvo then

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 04:20:03 pm
content: Circling back on topic a bit, I'll go out on a limb and predict that a cheap Owon scope will outlast any of the car brands recently mentioned

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 04:42:50 pm
content: I have my doubts. 14-20 years is a long time for cheap electronics.These cheap scopes can arrive broken at your doorstep for that matter. Happened with the first FNIRSI 1013D I bought. There was an issue with the touch screen. Basically the reason I landed on this forumBut for only 25 euro (35 after replacing the touchscreen and glass panel I broke) it brought me many hours of fun.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 04:47:05 pm
content: Once out of warranty, power supply is probablty the most likely failure, and that will usually be dried caps, so a simple fix, so I wouldn't have many concerns about longevity