What are the advantages to high end analog multimeters - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:04:51 am
content: I noticed that both Simpson and Triplet both continue to sell their high end analog multimeters. What tasks are they good for. I don't mean that in a condicending way. For example I get why old analog scopes have advantages over many digital scopes. That said, I'm curious why people would still buy the high dollar analog meters. Is it a strong RF thing or something else?Thanks

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:13:37 pm
content: Analog meters have an advantage when dealing with fluctuating signals, as you'll see the needle move between the values it's measuring.A DMM on the other hand, may average the values, or give you the min/max if it has that feature. Bar graphs help a bit more on a DMM in such situations, but it's not as easy to see/interpret IMHO vs. seeing the needle swing.Another advantage that comes to mind with an analog, is that they're still functional without batteries for measuring voltage (could be handy if you're in the middle of nowhere, and the DMM's battery is dead).But for most anything else, DMM's have the advantage (extra features and easier to use).

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:44:19 pm
content: We ad an interesting multipart lab dealing with analog meters, and that was to use one(no batteries), to measure voltage/current/resistance of circuits/ components. For these we mainly had the meter in current mode, though we did use the voltage measurement mode for one part of it. We also used this lab in discussing/ calculating meter loading on an analog meter :/.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:04:19 pm
content: Analog meters were still useful, IMHO, only when DMMs had slow update rates. With modern DMMs with bar graphs that update 40 times a second there doesn't seem to be much need anymore. The only thing I can see is the lack of need for batteries when measuring voltage or current. Of course batteries are needed for resistance.I still have my old analog meter from the 60s, but it never gets used, never.Analog panel meters are another case however. They run without a power source, and give you a quick idea what is going on at a glance. They might also be easier and/or cheaper to make a custom display because all you need to do is draw/print a custom scale for the meter and you have your one off special meter.Why anyone would buy an analog meter except for the two exceptions above, I have no idea.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:10:33 pm
content: The biggest advantage? You don't have to look at the meter to know you've hooked it up to DC voltage with the wrong polarity, or a wildly offscale voltage! Just listen for that needle pegging.If you're trying to tune a circuit to get a maximum or minimum reading, an analog meter makes seeing the changes easier. A bargraph on a digital meter is much better than a plain digital display, but not quite the same as watching an analog meter needle.A digital meter set in DC mode has a natural bandwidth limit that's very low. It doesn't respond to AC distortions impressed on top of the DC signal it's measuring; the needle's inertia makes it naturally settle on the average DC value. Sometimes (ok, not too often) that can be a useful characteristic.There are two broad types of analog meters: those with an amplification section (usually FET or vacuum tube), and those without. The ones with an amplifier generally present a very high impedance, similar to modern digital meters. Those without an amplifier have the advantage that they'll work without batteries, but they present a relatively lower impedance, since they rely on the measured circuit to power the needle. The lower impedance is usually a disadvantage, but there are situations where it can be helpful. Google "ghost voltage".Disadvantage? They're difficult to read precisely, and somewhat fragile mechanically.I suspect some people like them for nostalgia's sake. I'll grant that there are many tasks for which the last two digits of a typical DMM are wasted, and most of those tasks could be accomplished just fine with an analog meter. But I think there's a good reason digital meters outsell analog ones by a wide margin.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:32:15 pm
content: Without trying to look for the meter in question, my first comment is to check that is truly analogue. A few years ago I saw an "analogue" meter that was entirely digital with the exception of the display. It was coil driven from the small micro in the instrument.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:46:45 pm
content: In addition to small varying signals,thisis one additional task I only rely on my analog multimeter to do.Regarding the input impedance, in one case it is higher than a DMM: the 1kVDC scale (20k/V). This was useful when I had to measure the output voltage of some air ionizers.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 08:06:24 pm
content: I use them for transistor - diode testing and for quick troubleshooting where accuracy is not important.Another reason (that is no more important) is that they last for years, sometimes 50-60 years like this one

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 08:42:55 pm
content: AG6QR has a good point. The actual resolution on a bar graph is not that great so fine movements of a needle would be easier to see.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 01:40:27 am
content: What got me thinking about this was the fact that Simpson is still making the 260http://www.simpsonelectric.com/products/test-equipment/vom-multimetersThe cheapest models run nearly the price of a Fluke 87. The better ones are over the price of an 87.Triplett also makes models which are well over $100. So we aren't talking about the $10 cheapies. I do get the advantages of a low Z input for ghost voltages and I also get that with a needle you can see finer motion than with a bar graph (the zoom feature on some meters reduces this advantage). Still, I was thinking perhaps high power RF or some other sort of environment where digitals simply don't run properly. At $300+ you aren't buying a Simpson meter because it's cheaper than the next guy! Anyway, the high cost and continuing sales prompted this question.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:30:05 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 23, 2013, 07:04:19 pmEven with a fast update rate on a DMM and a bar-graph display, an analog meter is still far superior when using the meter when tuning and adjusting circuits where the measured value needs to be peaked, dipped, etc. DMM bar graphs don't have near enough resolution to work well in this application - and watching the numbers is just unnatural. Also, you would have to turn off the autoranging on a DMM to keep it from changing scales when tuning something that has a large variation.I have several DMMs, and they get used most of the time. However, I still use my Simpson 260 fairly often too (see my latest video). In fact, I just picked up and repaired 50 year old 260 which works great. You'll see a 260 used in several of my videos. I work as a field engineer, and I keep an old Triplett 310 in my goodie box. You'll also see the 260 in several of my videos on analog circuits (like the Basics of PLLs video).I'll always have a use for an analog meter, as well as an analog scope.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:05:51 am
content: Quote from: w2aew on October 24, 2013, 02:30:05 amFully confirm.Still after around 40 years this ITT Metrix MX202B is in daily use, as also some other analog meters and equipments. In some cases they are superior.If some people want there can arrange "blind test".One assistant sit in other room and adjust voltage what need analyze what is going on.In other room one people sit with good analog meter and other people with expensive high end DMM. Now there sit two peoples. Other have good idea what is going on and other sit totally "in dark" and can not tell any useful things what is going on.There is many places for analog diplayed things. In fighter cocpit and in industrial process control and in electronics repair workshop.Quite good 1.5% class meter. Very useful in 1973 and very useful in 2013If there is adjustable damping it may be even more useful. But this superior extra it do not have.

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 06:26:19 pm
content: I guess when you realize there are times you don't need more than 3 digits of resolution, and that we went for years without needing digital readout, that one of these analog meters becomes a useful tool. I think a lot of folks are obsessed with resolution, i.e. number of digits displayed for its own sake when 1% accuracy is often more than you need.Flip front leather cased Simpson 260 gets lots of use around here. Room for probes and shrouded alligator clips inside the case too. And the dBm scale even gets some use occasionally. Imagine that!

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 06:51:33 pm
content: One of the most important benifits of an analog meter is that they do not inject noise into your susceptible analog circuit. The circuit iscompletely passive.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 07:52:25 pm
content: Ahhh, Metrix. Brings back memories...

author: daddario
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 12:48:34 pm
content: It seems that those Metrix MX202Bs were once quite popular in Finland. I also have one of those on my bench.Although, I tend to use my Hioki 3009 more often, as I usually can't be bothered to fiqure out which of the million-plus-one input connectors are the correct ones. Besides atm it only serves as a V/A meter as it uses a rather peculiar battery for the ohms range, not that I would miss it...I also own a handful of soviet-origined-meters. Some of them are quite usable, some of them have a special feature what makes them worth owning and some of them are... well, as most things ever produced in the SU - bad design cleverly combined with crap materials and low build quality.For me an analogue meter comes in handy whan measuring pulsating signals, such as a 3Hz trapezium. And when checking for 'crackling' in pots.The bar graph on most DMM's either doesn't have enough resolution or changes range right in the middle in the needed area.For all other things I use my digital Flukes ( ;EDIT: typo