been looking to buy my first multimeter, but I need (a little) help - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 11:15:52 pm
content: So I been looking at a lot of multimeters, but I shorted the list down to about 2 metersBRYMEN BM867S or BRYMEN BM869S(the brymen BM869S is over my budget, so I'm not buying it)I really like these 2 meters a lot, the only thing that I think is weird, is the amount of extra digitsBRYMEN BM869S- DC current measuring accuracy ±(0,1% + 20 digits)- AC voltage measuring accuracy ±(0,4% + 30 digits)- AC current measuring accuracy ±(0,7% + 50 digits)(Frequency measuring range 10...200kHz)BRYMEN BM867SDC current measuring accuracy ±(0,1% + 20 digits)AC voltage measuring accuracy ±(0.8% + 60 digits)AC current measuring accuracy ±(1 % + 40 digits)(Frequency measuring range 10...200kHz)Can I trust my readings with all those extra digits ?Looking at the specs from the brymen BM829 meter, it looks like brymen gos in the wrong direction.BRYMEN BM829DC current measuring accuracy ±(0,2% + 4 digits)AC voltage measuring accuracy ±(0,5% + 3 digits)AC current measuring accuracy ±(0,6% + 3 digits)(Frequency measuring range 0,001...15/1k/10k/50kHz)With that said, this will be my first meter, so I'm totally green in this area.So I wanted to ask:- should I buy the BM829 or the BM867S ?- and why ?Any help will be appreciated, thanks in advance.http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/#http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm867/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm867s/#http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/#http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/cata820/BM820_Catalog.pdfhttp://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/cata860/BM860_Catalog.pdf

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 11:38:08 pm
content: It makes sense when you consider that the 867 is a 50000 count multimeter whereas the 829 is only a 6000 count multimeter in current measurement mode. The 867 will be better most of the time*, even though its accuracy specifies more counts.Let's make an example, let's say you measure a current of 40mA DC exactly. According to the specs, the 867 will display a value between 39.920mA and 40.080mA, whereas the 829 will display a value between 39.88mA and 40.12mA. So as you can see, the 867 is more accurate.The additional resolution can be useful too. The 5th decimal digit there doesn't make the 867 any more accurate, but it does let you see relative changes. If the value you measure in the above example changes by 0.003mA, the 867 will show it, while the 829 will not.* except in the range 5*10nto 6*10n

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 08:22:19 am
content: thanks for your help, that was just what I needed to hear.but when I look at the shop link, for the 867 meter, it says that it's out of stock.- Stock level: 0 should I order one from them and wait a long time.or maybe there is another shop, that ships it's products from the EU.(I live in Denmark and we have extra taxes/vats on any product, that are shipped from the outside of EU)feel like it would be easier just to wait until I have enough for the bm869

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 07:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 14, 2015, 08:22:19 amDo keep in mind, you'd only have to wait until which ever of the following conditions is met first to get one of these to you the quickest, as it seems waiting will be part of the equation regardless:The 867 shows stock available.You've saved enough funds to cover the cost of the 869.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 07:27:38 pm
content: It is not usual for people to buy a nice multimeter for their first one. I am happy to see you getting something really good instead of some cheap junk.If you want to spend a bit less and still have a great multimeter, the BM257s is very good too. It is less accurate of course, lower counts, and the TRMS is AC only, but it is a very handy meter for all round use and also has temperature and a non-contact voltage detector. It is a very good meter and more than most hobbyists will need. This also allows you to get the PC interface and still be within your budget I think.You can also consider the BM857s. It is basically all the BM867s is but it does not have dual display. It saves you some money again and maybe you can still get the PC interface.

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 08:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 14, 2015, 07:05:57 pmYes and no, I have a little less then what it cost, the rest I can get from my parents.Quote from: nanofrog on January 14, 2015, 07:05:57 pmthen I think I will buy it, thank you for telling me that.Quote from: Lightages on January 14, 2015, 07:27:38 pmThe funny thing is that, for the same budget I can get a cheap junk meter here in Denmark.We don't have those good meters here, as those from the USA.( the only exception being the fluke)Dave's videos have taught me what to look out for in a meter.he also showed me what products not to buy.( mjlorton has also been a good help, with the positive opinions towards brymen )but I feel like I got to use my money on something else too.I don't have a breadbord, arduino, unused parts or probes for my analog oscilloscope ( got it for free, lol ).Feel likes that it somethings that a beginner needs, when he is starting out.What I do have is a lot of electronics, which I got from "dumpster diving"(more like a tech box on the ground), but I'm not sure if it useful at all.(going a little off topice here)a lot of cd/dvd drive (mostly pata)a lot of floppy drivea lot of pc power supplya lot of power borads from dvdplayer, and so onsome (laptops / boomboxes / old radios) that can be fixed, but i need a multimetera lot of aluminium / stainless steel bars from printes. Was thinking to make a CNC rother, not sure how....a lot of DC motors, in all sizessome stepper motors, in small sizesthis will just be a hobby for me, planning to self teach myself with the help of the internet and this helpful forum.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 08:35:33 pm
content: From the DVDS and floppy drives you can get some stepper motors, usually bipolar which I find hard to get cheap. Whether it is useful or not depends on your interests. Some would love to have that stash of motors, while others would just chuck them. Fixing stuff is also a great way to learn about general electronics, reverse engineering etc.I would suggest going for the cheaper multimeter mentioned above, since as a beginner you do not really need great equipment (you can upgrade later). Get a cheap(ish) one and spent the left over cash on getting everything else (a breadboard, basic components...). Also just buy what you need. Don't get an arduino if you just want to fix old stuff or play around with your scope, although they are great for starting out in digital electronics.Hope this helped a little bit,Ben (is/has been in your shoes)

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 14, 2015, 08:35:33 pmdude, you're totaly right.I kind of always go after the best first.I'm setting up a new list of items that I want to buy, with the same budget.I'm getting close to having what I need, but the oscilloscope probes aren't cheap in Denmark.So i want to buy 2 from an other website then the tme.eu.but I don't know where to buy them, inside of the EU.here is my scope model- trio 15mhz oscilloscope cs-1560abeen looking at the ebay products from englandhttp://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_nkw=oscilloscope+probe&LH_LocatedIn=3&_sop=15I can get it for 1/4 of the price from those of denmark.But i'm not sure if they can fit inside my scope.also, that bipolar motor you talked about, I got some of them (the photo is from the net)

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:31:15 pm
content: I'm pretty sure they will fit. I don't know that model, but every scope I've seen uses BNC probe inputs. If you post a picture of the connectors I can verify that with you. Definitely check out Amazon, the prices are slightly higher than eBay normally, but your purchases are better protected, and delivery is is usually free. I can't seem to find bipolar stepper motors on the internet, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough!Ben

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 14, 2015, 08:22:20 pmI was thinking in terms of saving up additional funds while you waited for the BM867 to be restocked at TME.Quote from: nanofrog on January 14, 2015, 07:05:57 pmYou've misunderstood me. Their site currently shows 0 units available.I meant that as it stands, and you're in a hurry and want a meter in the shortest time possible, you wait until the BM867 is restocked at TME, or until you can save the cost difference necessary to purchase the BM869, whichever of these two events actually occurs first.Hope this clears things up.Either are excellent meters, but personally, I don't see the extra features on the BM869 as a necessity (nice to have, but you can get them in other meters instead, and by doing so, will allow you to take simultaneous readings via separate meters). So you could take the savings between the BM867 v. BM869 (assumes you save this up between now and whenever the BM867 is restocked), and apply it to a second meter or two (a UT139C, UT61E, and Digitek 4000ZC would be worth a look for example). Some users are even proponents of 4 meters. Or something else you may need for that matter.There's other models worth looking at too. If you're dead set on a 50,000 count model that's less expensive, the BM857* or BM859 are the predecessors to the current top-of-the-line BM86x series (missing the dual display), and worth a look. Then there's the BM829 or BM257 to consider.Just something to consider.* I happen to own an older BM857 (not the current BM857s, which has even better protections and noticeably improved backlight). It's a fine meter, and offers a LOT of value for money IMHO.

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 10:01:13 pm
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 14, 2015, 09:31:15 pmI would love to buy from amazon, but all the sellers (even them from england) ships the proucts from china.here is some photos of my scope

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 10:04:45 pm
content: Nice scope! Yep any probes you get from England or elsewhere should work perfectly well. I wouldn't worry about buying from China, I know you are worrying about the quality but most things are fine for a beginner on a budget. Anyway I hope you find a pair for a decent price, and wish you luck with whatever you make!

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 10:11:21 pm
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 14, 2015, 10:04:45 pmit isn't the quality that is the problem, but when the product is from outside of EU, then I'm losing money.Quote from: ziegler on January 14, 2015, 08:22:19 amThank you for your help ben.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 10:13:29 pm
content: Oh sorry completely missed that

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 10:35:30 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 14, 2015, 07:05:57 pmright now I'm looking at :BRYMEN BM257S$96.55BRYMEN BM827$ 119.17UNI-T UT71A* (newly added)$ 122.20 * (newly added)BRYMEN BM857A$122.48BRYMEN BM867S$ 148.68as I said, I need some stuff and I'm not completely done with the list.when the list is done, I will pick a meter that fit the budget (and write it on this poll)I have been looking at other meters before I fell in love with brymen.The first meter I really wanted was the- KEYSIGHT TECHNOLOGIES U1241Bbut I couldn't find any reviews on it, all I did find was a lot of hardware/software errors.(Don't want to risk buying that)the next one was the- UNI-T UT71D(now that I look agian, the UNI-T UT71A model is just $ 122.20)which is a good meter, but I don't like the glass fuses inside of it.(saw this video and didn't want to risk that)but I will take a look at the uni-t ut71a , even if it got glass fuses, it still a good meter for the money (not sure yet)

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 11:39:36 pm
content: Also consider a cheaper model (I went 857s), and the difference towards a de ee 5000 LCR meter:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DE-5000-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-With-TL-21-TL-22-TL-23-DER-EE-/331432433527?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2ae99777Handy thing to have.(side question to regulars, are those starting to disappear from EBAY?)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 02:35:19 am
content: Quote from: Yago on January 14, 2015, 11:39:36 pmThere are listings on both the US & UK sites, and it still shows up as a current product on DER EE's site (here).

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 02:41:27 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 15, 2015, 02:35:19 amCheers Nano, must get my eyes and Google Fu checked out!

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 10:58:27 am
content: what do I use a LCR meter for ?I have looked at a ESR meter, but not sure if it is useful or not.on a side note, i have this old RLC meter, but again i'm not sure what to use it at/for.(got it for free)

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 12:24:21 pm
content: Since it is your first meter, I would suggest that you buy a throw-away meter, like 830 - typically less than $10.Most likely, it will be sufficient for 90% of that you do, if not more.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 04:36:03 pm
content: I have a Uni T UT136B that replaced a £5 cheapie! Works well, has uA (but not mV) and the regular capacitance/frequency functionality. I find it perfect for my uses, although the continuity test could be faster. More/less functionality is available in the UT136A-D. Also that LCR meter you have looks like a great piece of gear!BenEDIT: This particular model cost ~£20

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 07:50:18 pm
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 15, 2015, 04:36:03 pmyes i does, but it is a RLC meter, which might be better/worse, not sure.So I picked the BM857A meter.but when I logged in on the website, the product goes from $122.48 to $136.4685.thats okay i think, but a little odd.added it to my cart and saw that the price is now at $147.88don't like that I need to do all this just to see the last price.i'm not sure if I have paid for the shipping at this price now, or if it will be added later.*seems like I paid for it**have a lot of screenshots of the shop info, just to be sure*

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 08:13:24 pm
content: The next thing is the oscilloscope probes.but my budget was hit a little more than I thought, so I will have to remove some things from my list for now.Thanks to all you guys, this is really a great forum/community.I will definitely come back for help again in the future.

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 08:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on January 15, 2015, 08:22:01 pmwill do.Is the -S version better than the -A version ?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 08:34:26 pm
content: The "S" version is updated with a better back light and upgraded input protection to meet the latest safety standards.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 08:39:40 pm
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 15, 2015, 07:50:18 pmSomeone correct me if I'm wrong but are they not the same thing?

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 09:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 15, 2015, 08:39:40 pmnow when you said it, that could be true(RLC) = (LCR) ?

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 09:15:05 pm
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 15, 2015, 09:01:44 pmLCR meter is marked as LCR because it measures inductance "L" capacitance "C" resistance "R" , if someone states RLC meter, then it's the very same thing... just the letters are in different order

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 09:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 13, 2015, 11:15:52 pmi just bought a BM869s recently, and i'm sure DC voltage accuracy (upto 5V range) is +- 0.02% +2d .. regarding the current and AC ranges - it's really +20digits and higher.... but let's have some math session...it's a 50000count meter (the 500000 count mode is there just to see the trend of the changes) so let's calculate...50000 count = 100% , how much is 1% ? it's 500how much is 0.1% ? it's 50... so at +-0.1% accuracy +50digits is still within the the boundaries.the meter is usable as 50000 count meter only on the lowest DC voltage ranges - the 500mV and 5V range (and exactly the accuracy of 0.02% + 2d on those 2 ranges is the reason why i bought my BM869s DMM)and keep in mind that the situation is the very same with the majority of the meters - the "count" of the meters is usable only on the lowest DC voltage range. the DC current and AC ranges are usually order of magnitude less accurate.

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 10:19:34 am
content: 1 day after I bought the meter, it disappeared from the "undelivered products" list.though I got a new invoice in the "sales invoices" list, that confirmed that I have paid for it.(also got that confirmed by paypal and an email from TME them self )the product looks like it's moving, the "delivery method" is UPS Saver.Not sure I like their webshop design, but I'm glad that I got a lot of screenshots to prove my side of the story.(Hope I don't need to)but i will see time out for now.I have read a bad customer-feedback-story on this forum, but it is dated about 2/3 years ago.Always be on the save side, it can't hurt.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:02:45 am
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 16, 2015, 10:19:34 amTME's webshop is designed mainly for companies, so an individual might find it complicated... but it actually has a lot of cool features like adding you own IDs/descriptions for items (those are persistent) and will be printed on the sticker describing the components in the bag... priceless for easy stock up-keepingyou can have several open orders, parking lot for future order items... actually i like their web-shop a lotbtw.. i bought my BM869s from TME - it was delivered the day after it left their warehouse (delivered via UPS).and regarding the "undelivered items" section in their webshop - the items will disappear from there once your order is sent out from their warehouse... you have to look for invoices in the webshop and click details to see the items on that invoice.

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 01:35:41 pm
content: I got my meter in the door today, with only 3 days of shipping, thats better then some of the web shops in my country.Quote from: rob77 on January 16, 2015, 11:02:45 amI'm always feel uneasy the first time I use an new web shop.But I would never had use this one if it didn't look so professional, the things I said was just some details i didn't like.Quote from: 3roomlab on January 15, 2015, 08:22:01 pmthe model of the meter, is in fact the -S version (BM857s) and the backlight is better than that from dave's video.This meter is a big one, I feel like i can drop it, without it breaking.now I need to look in the manual and use some tutorials, before I know how to use this tool.thanks for your help guys.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 03:02:42 pm
content: I am glad you got something good and it all worked out.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 04:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: ziegler on January 14, 2015, 09:25:33 pmHopefully your usage of it will justify it ;-)It doesn't matter what tools you have, it matters what you build with them.

author: ziegler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 04:29:14 pm
content: with great tools, comes great possibilities