Looking for a replacement general purpose oscilloscope for home use - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 08:29:36 pm
content: Looking to replace my general purpose scope with something more modern. After seeing the post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/magnova-oscilloscope/I thought I would toss out what I am looking for.A few problem with my LeCroy is the poor quality mechanical packaging. I took the dust cover off the WaveMaster a few months back and broke the plastic bezzel. The Waveblunder has a lot of melted plastic inside of it to reinforce all the areas that cracked. These are not bouncing around in the back of my truck. The WaveMaster for example has a very thin area of plastic, right where it broke. Just poor design and low grade materials.Don't get me started on calibration. You have the trigger set to normal and your waiting for that one event to happen. The scope is sitting there for 5 minutes doing nothing. Then, there comes the trigger you have been waiting for... The scope, well, rather than show you that date, it's going to calibrate. Your data.... you didn't really want that did you? Sure you can turn off auto cal... oh wait, you can't...100M Ethernet... If the memory is deep, and I want to post process it with a PC, I don't want to wait. Of course, ideally the scope should do everything internally without a PC connection but I have not seen that yet.USB... Sadly there is no getting around how bad USB is and always has been. I like using the mouse but it's a bad interface to try and use in my lab.....Outside of these problems, my scope is fairly old. I upgraded it to Windows XP.Using internal math is not very fast. I want something responsive.My hope is a modern scope will put my old scope to shame....Min WantDisplay Size 10" 14-16"Display Resolution 1024x768 Maybe higher.Touchscreen I typically disable this feature and will drivethe scope with a mouse and keyboard.Selectors knobs/switches What ever is used, it just needs to work.We bought a Siglent Arb with a rotoryencoder that skips, reverses direction...This would be a deal breaker.The switch contacts need to last and not get noisyover time. Like my remote controls that doubleselects now.My LeCroy has knobs that fall off! It was a commonproblem.Mechanical construction This thing needs to be rugged enought to surviveI hate plastic parts that crack over timeIf you require an internal battery, better makeit easy to change out! Don't make me remove 50screws and get my soldering iron out!If your case design is so poor that it places undostress on the circuit boards, I'm not interested.Weight Not important. It will live out it's life on a shelf.Size Not too important. Keep the depth under a foot.AC power Standard USA single phase 110 60Hz.InterfaceEthernet 1000BT Must provide a software interfacespecification. I will most likely be runningit from a PC.USB 3-ports Needs to support mouse,keyboard and flash driveExport plots to flash drive. Various image formats forreporting.External monitor port VGA HDMIInternal mass storage SSD No mechanical spinning stuff!Built-in math functions The more features and complex, the better!!Built-in decoder functions SPI, etc, the more the betterMixed mode (dedicated digital) Not requiredTrigger Edge, missing pulse, glitch.. Min width,max width...the more complex, the betterTrigger Jitter I doubt this would ever be an issue with a modernscope. <10ps should be fine..Channels 4Analog Bandwidth @ 50ohms 300 500 MHzCoupling 50ohm DC, 1Meg AC/DCConnector type BNC Need to be able to use standard probes with it.If propritary interface, needs to include adaptersto support standard probes.Input Voltage 5Vrms@50ohms, 400V@1MVertical Resolution 8 BitsBW filters 20M/200MMemory depthAll channels active 10M More is better Data pointsHalf channels 20MSingle shot sample rateAll channels active 2G 5G spsHalf channels 10GRIS mode trigger rate I use this mode typically when looking atignition signals which can have a very slowtrigger rate as well....Current trigger rate is 1,250,000 on my LeCroyExternal clock Would like ability to use an external clockfor samplingViewing mode update rate 8000 Waveforms/secondI do make use of their WaveStream mode:WaveStream Mode - This fast viewing mode provides brightness-graded intensity with a decay time similar to the action of phosphoron an analog screen. WaveStream mode operates at up to 10 GS/swith an update rate up to 8000 waveforms/second for bettercapture of higher frequency abnormal events.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 08:42:29 pm
content: Budget will determine what we might recommend.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 09:20:11 pm
content: Could you please re-post your key requirements and expectations in a font that is actually readable?Thanks!

author: ycui7
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 09:34:04 pm
content: from what you are asking for and complained about, my recommendation is to take a look at scope listed around $20k-$40k from Keysight (EXR or DSOX series) or LeCroy. but those are not generally meant for home use.

author: Fried Chicken
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 09:38:30 pm
content: I'm very happy with my Tektronix 2230, but if I could I would have gotten the 2232 or maybe the 2252?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 09:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: ycui7 on April 09, 2024, 09:34:04 pmJoe is an advanced user and need be treated as such.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 09:51:32 pm
content: With these specs an R&S MXO4 is a possible candidate but I assume this one uses decimated data for math like R&S' lower tier oscilloscopes (correct me if I'm wrong). AFAIK Tektronix uses actual data for math (which leads to slower operation). Tektronix MSO4 or MSO5 could be an option but from what I've read these models aren't very responsive to use.Don't get too hung up on having 1Gbit/s ethernet though; very few scopes can push data out that fast. In fact, there are scopes with 100Mbit/s ethernet which transfer data quicker.One thing to look out for is that an oscilloscope actually triggers on the slope of an edge contrary to trying to find a single point. The latter will smear out the actual edge (due to noise) leading to a misrepresentation of the signal.Or stick with Lecroy. From what I've seen Lecroy is rather strong where it comes to math and analysis (albeit being slow). A trick Lecroy uses to speed things up is not to acquire more data than required to fill the width of the screen. OTOH Lecroy's post trigger range is rather limited. Where other manufacturers typically allow over 1 second, Lecroy allows a limited number of divisions. For some types of measurements this can be problematic.If protocol decoding is used regulary, it could be a good idea to buy a seperate scope for that. Like the R&S RTB2004 or RTM3004. Protocol decoding and working on embedded stuff is where these models really shine and there is not much out there which can compare.Basically you have the choice between slow software protocol decoding and slow extended math (Lecroy, Tektronix), or hardware protocol decoding and fast math on decimated data (Keysight, R&S). But Keysight doesn't meet your memory requirement.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 09:51:54 pm
content: The question is, is his budget the SDS7000A or the MXO 5? 5 figures or 6 figures? 😉

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 10:09:13 pm
content: In the old days, people used to rent televisions because they were expensive to buy and the technology was changing so quickly.Strikes me that oscilloscopes in this class should be available to rent or lease too. That way, if you find things you can't live with you are not stuck with it forever. And after 3-4 years when it becomes obsolete you can upgrade it to a different model.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 10:14:38 pm
content: Lecroy Waverunner 9000....https://www.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/waverunner-9000-oscilloscopes/waverunner-9054We have the 9054, 500Mhz, 20/40GSa/s, MAUI (best UI in my opinion).Very solid building.And huge..Bought it directly by lecroy, saves a lot of money - We´ve paid only 12k€ with serial decoder and PA option.Comes with intel i5 cpu, 8GB ram, SSD, windows 10 OS.Speaking of options, you'll be overwhelmed by the wealth of options available for the wr9000, I've never seen anything like it before.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 10:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 09, 2024, 09:51:32 pmHello,with a Micsig MHO3 the LAN connection is very fast. With FTP, a 720 MB file took a good 6 seconds. So over 100 MB/s.Best regardsegonotto

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 10:26:06 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 09, 2024, 10:15:53 pmI assume that is not acquisition data and the acquisition data transfer speed is what counts. As acquisition data typically needs to be converted, the limit is in the processing power and how efficient the conversion has been implemented.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 10:44:28 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 09, 2024, 08:29:36 pmWhy the kinky font? it's very dull on the greywhite background.Like an old-school typewriter with an ink belt singing on its last tune but then again putting [B/] in front of courier font for a bold-variant, leaves a lot to be desired.In regards to USB sockets.. most modern scopes will tolerate multiple input devices from a single USB host socket..How I use my hybrid scope and when stationary I just attach a cheap USB dongle with all the peripherals.Tested its single USB socket, with 4 or 5 things attached at once.. mouse, airmouse, keyboard etc. and it had no problems in accepting it all at the same time..For secondary harddrives/flashdrives, you can encounter that there are two standards.. one for the system OS and one for the scope-app on units that run the scope part as an app if you look to drop data directly onto an external harddrive...At least the situation I encountered, where the system OS will gladly accept fx 2TB Gen4 PCI NVMe drives (in a 20Gbps TypeC enclosure) through its USB socket, so you get the full 2TB accessible in the secondary system UI, but not in the scope app, to directly port fx data onto WAV/CSV/BIN.. and seems to be a 32 or 64GB limit and likely also FAT format standard.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 11:05:12 pm
content: Hello,I have saved the acquisition data to the internal memory (about 20 GB free) (time is about 20 s) and transferred this file to the PC using FTP. This FTP transfer went with 100 MB/s.Best regardsegonotto

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 11:08:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 09, 2024, 10:26:06 pmThis is where a PC based scope might be best for Joe's needs but the 15.6" display 3 GHz 12bit SDS7304A is some $20k whereas the somewhat cheaper 12" display 500 MHz 8bit SDS6054A is just some $8k albeit with only 100M LAN.Both are on promo with large option bundles cheap.https://siglentna.com/news-and-events/siglent-promotions/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2024, 11:40:07 pm
content: A PC based oscilloscope is not a guarantee for fast processing. I have quite a few PC based piece of test equipment which are dog-slow. Even when the software is used on a very modern PC as a standalone application.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 12:47:05 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 09, 2024, 08:42:29 pmWell, guess I hadn't really thought about the cost and haven't priced one out in years. Thinking I could find something below 15 with tax. Really though, depends on the scope.Quote from: ycui7 on April 09, 2024, 09:34:04 pmMaybe.Quote from: nctnico on April 09, 2024, 09:51:32 pmI had added a Gbit card to that WaveMaster to attempt to improve the transfer rate. Discovered some tricks that really helped with that particular scope. The WaveRunner is stuck at 100Mbit. Both scopes are very old and I am expecting anything new will out perform them.Quote from: nctnico on April 09, 2024, 09:51:32 pmI would consider staying with LeCroy, even getting another used one that is less old than mine. With all the good things I like about the hardware and software (except that stupid autocal), I can't ignore the bad packaging.Quote from: nctnico on April 09, 2024, 09:51:32 pmDecoding on the LeCroy is alright for what it is. In most cases, I would say good enough for my basic use.Quote from: Martin72 on April 09, 2024, 10:14:38 pmYes, something like this, but I just don't trust the solid build quality you mention. And that calibration warmup software is a real pain when using it at home as I turn it off when not in use and when I turn it on, it hits the ground running. Hoping newer scope will settle in quicker. Mine is a space heater.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 01:11:30 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 09, 2024, 10:15:53 pmThat's fast. The transfer speeds of the WaveMaster are dependent on how fast you sample the data (I am pulling the data down live). I found if I copy the data to local memory I can offload it much faster but is slows the collection. Using this method, I can achieve close to 500Mbps. It's not great but good enough in most cases (it's much faster than using the internal 100Mbit interface). Even the 100Mb interface in the WaveRunner isn't a deal breaker. Here is an 8 year old video I made showing using oversampling with this scope to measure AC line power. For slow data rates like this, it's fine.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 12:45:26 pm
content: Looking at the Micsig MHO3, they don't mention the Ethernet connection. Only USB 3.0 Host、USB Type-C、HDMI、Trigger out. When you were doing your transfer tests, was this with USB?I have a Signal Hound SA that uses USB. It's never really worked right under the best conditions. If you get it to link (sometimes still requiring the PC to be power cycled) it is normally reliable until you have any sort of common mode noise..... Then it's the typical USB game. Ethernet is far more robust.***Before throwing Signal Hound under the bus with their USB interface, it is fast. I made a sort of review for it where I demonstrate logging data from a cheap hand held meter live. As much as I like their software, it isn't going to do something like this so we had to roll a simple program to perform the decoding.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 01:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 09, 2024, 11:08:01 pmFor a general purpose scope, I want something standalone. I looked at the 7000 series. It's a bit overkill and I would want many of the options added on. Didn't total it up but I'm guessing 30 when it's all said and done. After their business practice of going after their customers and then playing with that Arb, I was turned off on the brand.I'll look around and see if I can find a decent review where someone actually shows something beyond taking it out of the box and showing the probes .... I'll get back to you with any questions.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 01:48:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 01:36:12 pmThey have an option bundle promo until June 30th, and the options in the bundle are free. I dunno if it's all of them or not. I'm pretty sure you could get a loaner of that scope before you purchase to try it out.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 01:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 10, 2024, 01:48:25 pmAt 20K$ + I hope so. This is usually what they do with cars of similar value

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 01:57:13 pm
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 10, 2024, 01:54:57 pmI've never heard of anybody refusing a test drive...for a car anyway. 😉

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 02:02:52 pm
content: Hello,the MHO3 has LAN with 1 Gb/s. I use this LAN. I had quite a few problems with the USB connection. The manual does not say how to do this. Finally I found that you have to use the USB-C socket, but that not every cable works.The MHO3 is probably not yet mature. It looks like there are still errors.I will get in touch with Micsig. They are very helpful.I can only achieve the 230,000 wfms/s in segmented mode. Otherwise maximum 40 wfms/s.I also cannot change the brightness of the waveform.inhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-micsig-scope-with-knobs-(again)/I reported on my experience with the MHO3Best regardsegonotto

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 02:25:11 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 09, 2024, 08:29:36 pmIt's probably not what you are looking for, but know that your old Lecroy can probably be upgraded (CPU / RAM / Win7 / Screen / TouchScreen / Firmware). In the end, most of the PC parts are quite standard.I'm in the middle of that process on a Lecroy WaveRunner 6100 and a WavePro 7300a. It's a lot of fiddling but not super expensive.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 02:52:32 pm
content: Joe, you should know better than askingthison hereAnyway, since you have a LeCroy, and maybe LeCroy Active Probes? Consider a replacement DSO/MSO that supports those expensive Active Probes or offers an adapter for such!!Siglent has the LPA10 adapter for LeCroy active probes apparently that works with their SDS6000A and the 6000 has a Analysis Bundle Offer which includes some nice features/options.If you decide to go Siglent's route, get Rob working for youAnd don't forget the EEVblog discount at SaeligBest,

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 03:05:30 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on April 10, 2024, 02:52:32 pmWell, for good or for ill (probably for good) there aren't that many of us that can talk about scopes with the features requested. I myself haven't even touched any piece of TE sold for over 3K in the last 15 years. I think the question is safe, and I'm actually quite curious. Hoping Joe gets a few on loan and we, in turn, get a few interesting videos.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 03:18:48 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 10, 2024, 01:57:13 pmScope manufacturers might have reservations in this particular case, if they happen to know how Joe test-drives multimeters.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 03:20:14 pm
content: eblastler? The grill starter?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 03:24:19 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 10, 2024, 02:02:52 pmThanks for this bit of info. If you have a running blog where you are posting about your experience with this scope, please provide a link.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 03:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on April 10, 2024, 02:52:32 pmYes, I do have a few different probes and adapters. I listed the active probes here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/12-ghz-active-probe-project/msg4988716/#msg4988716I use these with the old WaveMaster and have no plans to retire that scope anytime soon. Unlike the WavePro 7300a mentioned, the WaveMaster is 50ohm only, really for high speed (at the time) use. So, really no need to worry about their proprietary interface. This is why I specifically called out the standard BNC inputs.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 03:44:25 pm
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 10, 2024, 02:25:11 pmNormally I would say this is a valid point. However, the scope I have is old. I got it used. It was damaged when I received it. Factory attempted repairs but were not successful. Problem resides in the acquisition system, not the PC. I suspect the cause was two fold. First, the case design is poor and allows for flexing of the boards. Then it runs hot. So the scope had a short life. My attempts to repair it were somewhat successful. I've used it for my daily driver for 8 years or so. But it is starting to act up again and it's not the PC.I thought about getting another used, but newer version of the same scope and keeping this thing for parts. You can find them under 3, in "working" condition with a 5-day warranty. Problem is, I do not know if they addressed any of the mechanical issues with the newer packaging. Looking at photos, I have my doubts.Rather than dealing with used, I'm looking at getting my second brand new scope in my entire life.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 04:09:24 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on April 10, 2024, 03:18:48 pmQuote from: Grandchuck on April 10, 2024, 03:20:14 pmYou guys...Lets be fair, while I did actually hit my 5GHz WaveMaster with the grill starter, I knew what I was doing.So yeah, maybe I'm not the typical user but consider I've been working as a EE for 40years and I have yet to damage a scope's front end. I'm a bit surprised by that myself....I have seen people damage them on a frequent basis at work. We do a fair bit with high voltages which certainly increases the risks.***I recently did look at SJL's new scope. Did a bit more than unbox it and give it a five gold star review.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-sized-6-ghz-1-tss-et-scope/

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 05:37:06 pm
content: Looking at the LeCroy HDO6054B-L and noticed they use Windows 10. I normally wouldn't care but recently I upgraded my modem at home. No big deal you would think. Plugged the modem into my desktop PC, set the thing up. Then connected it on the WAN and went to activate it. They required a direct connection to do this. As soon as the PC I was using had direct internet connection, the PC was locked. Locked meaning I could not even bring up task manager. This went on for basically the entire day while Microsoft had their way with a computer that had not been touched in a few years..I run DDWRT and normally all the Windows PC sit behind it. I wrote some software to parse the Wireshark files and create scripts for DDWRT that basically blocks all traffic to/from Microsoft. This has allowed me to actually use the PCs. So, this PC that I used to get the modem setup is only used to stream data to the TV set. A few days go by and I had some time to relax and watch some TV. I turn on the PC and Microsoft starts their next updates. I had forgot to unplug the direct connection. About a half hour goes by and they are done. There went the time I was going to relax.So I wonder if I had a scope running 10, could I actually ever use it? Would it be like my PC connected to the TV and spend more time upgrading than actually doing what it's intended use is? The scope will be on the LAN and could possibly have access to the internet. Last thing I want it MS messing with my test equipment!***Not finding much out there. Basically unboxing. I do like that larger display. Too bad LeCroy doesn't hang out here.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 06:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 05:37:06 pmhttps://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10Skip ahead to the regedit part.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 07:38:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 05:37:06 pmFYI, Siglent gear uses Linux based OS.I can certainly arrange for loaners to assess.We don't have the SDS7000A models but do have a SDS6204A which we can give any feedback if you require any info.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 08:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 10, 2024, 01:48:25 pmhttps://siglentna.com/news-article/siglent-sds7000a-introduction-promotion/Not all by quite some margin as many of the advanced analysis options and compliance tests are not in the promo.SDS7000A-1GPTSSDS7000A-EJSDS7000A-USB2SDS7000A-CT-USB2SDS7000A-CT-100BASE-TSDS7000A-CT-1000BASE-TSDS7000A-CT-100BASE-T1SDS7000A-CT-1000BASE-T1

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 08:15:17 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 10, 2024, 06:29:58 pmArticle was from 2022 and from my experience, MS does like to change things up. From the article you linked:QuoteQuoteNow I don't know what version of Windows is supplied in which products, or if MS has changed how the registry works. This is why I went the route of blocking ALL Microsoft traffic. The last time I had a similar experience to my modem update, MS upgraded my PC and I noticed more traffic. Running Wireshark for a few days, I noticed they had added a for more address blocks. They must hard code this into their updates. After patching my router scripts, the problem was once again solved.Quote from: tautech on April 10, 2024, 07:38:30 pmFrom my own experience, this may be a big plus. However, I really don't know what the security problems are with LINUX. The nice thing about my equipment, Windows NT, 2000, XP are so old, no one cares.My current scope's screen size is even smaller than the 6000 but I do like those large displays.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 08:35:11 pm
content: Let's assume Siglent would be willing to send out a loaner of the 7k series loaded up, to some home hobby user. How long do they typically extend that trial time? Do they offer time extensions? Is it possible to get a used one that I could inspect their construction?I couldn't find a single review of it. Are there programming examples available? Videos showing the transfer speeds and such?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 09:12:21 pm
content: The registry has worked the same for ages. Entries change sometimes, but rarely does an established entry change like that.Linux is typically more secure than Windows. Windows by far has the highest market share, which is why it's also the biggest target for hackers.https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 09:25:20 pm
content: Hi,QuoteThat is not surprising.The Scope is still fairly new on the market and the price is clearly aimed at corporate customers rather than hobbyists.In this price range, it is more likely to be manufactured on demand and not stocked on the shelves of dealers.Therefore, I can only recommend that you contact siglent NA directly with your questions.In any case, I will be contacting Siglent EU about this soon, as we are still looking for an "official" scope with a bandwidth of at least 2Ghz.With lecroy at least, such a request was always fruitful, and we were given the models on loan for about 3 weeks.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 09:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 08:35:11 pmOption trial time is normally 30 free uses and not ON time related.For our demo models we can apply for trial time licenses to be reset and receive a single license code for a global reset.QuoteUnlikely however you could ask.As yet there is not a service manual available with construction details to inspect.QuoteFrom P736 onwardshttps://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/ProgrammingGuide_EN11F.pdf

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 09:52:41 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 10, 2024, 09:33:16 pmSo 30 power ups? 30 triggers?30 power cycles would be fine. Guessing within a month I would know if its a keeper. Encoders work? Don't give me the sob story that I turn them too fast.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:09:05 pm
content: 30 calls.E.g., once called, one day gone.Called again at some point, another day gone.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:12:46 pm
content: Call? I have no idea what that means?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 09:52:41 pmAs mentioned I've never had my hands on 7000A.Ping member coromonadalix in Canada as he got a trial unit to assess and can give fair feedback on his findings.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg5318461/#msg5318461

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:16:35 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 10:12:46 pmUser Call of the trial option.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:21:48 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 10, 2024, 10:16:35 pmSorry but that's not helpful. I have no idea what Call means in this context.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 10:21:48 pmIs user Activate more helpful ?While Trial uses are still available each activation reduces the remaining trial uses until there are no further free uses available when IIRC you are prompted to install a permanent license.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:29:28 pm
content: Not really.When does it ask? Does it ask when I trigger? Does it ask when I turn it on, run an FFT?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:34:45 pm
content: Hi,Assuming you have the options list in your mind's eye, it always shows the remaining time in days, with 30 days as the starting point.Now you use one of these options, then you have used up a "day" at that moment.If you remember two weeks later, oh I could try it again, another day is "gone".Something like that.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on April 10, 2024, 10:34:45 pmSo if I am only using the basic package, no options, it will run forever?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:44:27 pm
content: I would say yes.I can check tomorrow at work, we have 6 Siglent scopes, three of them for 2 years and have not tried the possible options, so the list should still show 30 days everywhere.It's different with lecroy:You can get trial licenses from them, also for 30 days.But they run immediately as soon as you have installed these keys.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:45:21 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 10:29:28 pmWhen trial options have expired and you select one to use.The list is here P19https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/12/SDS7000A_Datasheet_EN01B.pdf

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 10:49:38 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 10, 2024, 10:29:28 pmI believe they mean you power on the scope, and use a specific function. For example, AWG. You can use the AWG 1000 times before you power off the scope, and that constitutes a single use (1 out of 30).

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2024, 11:13:12 pm
content: Hello,at least with the SDS2000X HD, the use of one decode option (e.g. SPI even if you already have the license for it) is sufficient to reduce all decode options by one.Best regardsegonotto

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 12:39:21 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 10, 2024, 11:13:12 pmThat's bad if that's the case. tautech, please verify.Quote from: Martin72 on April 10, 2024, 10:44:27 pmWith LeCroy, Keysight, Tektronix ... other name companies I have worked with, for business, they just drop it off and we run it for a few weeks and they pick it up. I've never tried to get a loaner for home hobby use.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 01:36:34 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 11, 2024, 12:39:21 amThis should not be the case and I have never seen such as any option trial use is only diminished when that option is used.We don't have 2kX HD in stock to check only some others but quicker was to search the NA website.https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/how-to-check-sds2000x-plus-options/While this ^ is not definitive I believe the below is:https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/how-to-check-sds5000x-installed-options/

author: Harrow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 01:42:05 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 10, 2024, 10:49:38 pmSo if you never turn your scope off, you get to use the trial forever?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 01:55:54 am
content: Quote from: Harrow on April 11, 2024, 01:42:05 amYes.Unlike analyzers that count down the 120hrs system time of trial option use.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 02:03:20 am
content: Hello,I have never used ARINC. And Grandchuck has also confirmed the problem inhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/950/Reply #962. In his picture you can see that I2S and ARINC each have 17 left.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 02:14:21 am
content: It appears to be a possible bug on the newer firmware of the 2000X HD. I don't know if it affects other models. I don't have any trial periods on my 2KX+ to test. 😉

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 02:37:44 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 11, 2024, 02:14:21 amIt seems to be.Just tested ARINC use with 2kX Plus which counts down each usage.We have tricks to restore to 30 again.....

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 02:54:07 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 11, 2024, 02:37:44 amIt seems the addition of the A429 option has confused the license system a little. Somebody probably wasn't careful enough copypastaing the new option license. 😉

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 03:05:36 am
content: This poor guy bought a "working" WaveBlunder. This is a newer model than mine but very similar. Starting at 9:20, he starts to pull it apart. Pay attention to how far it must be pulled down to replace the coin cell.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 01:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 17, 2024, 03:05:36 amKind of remember me when I had to remove the PC motherboard from a Tektronix DPO7054. It's a little less tight inside, but to get the motherboard out you need to remove everything first.I hope he had some kind of refund from the seller. Finding a replacement motherboard (with pcie/104 and LVDS onboard) is not going to be easy nor cheap.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 04:11:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 17, 2024, 03:05:36 amWhere are the anti-static mat and wristband? Minimum requirements when taking computers and test equipment apart.Most likely his problem is a contact issue. FR4 boards are sturdy and can take quite a bit of bending. But it is possible the previous owner messed it up doing the SSD upgrade and sold it on.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 12:34:17 am
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 17, 2024, 01:15:39 pmIf I were the seller and saw someone pulling my equipment apart like this with total disregard to basic ESD practices, I would not only reject any claims, but most likely would make a video rant about wannabes.Quote from: nctnico on April 17, 2024, 04:11:39 pmI had a very similar symptom crop up with my cheapo Diglent ARTY board that I was using to test a scope I was looking at. Touch the USB and it would take down the PC. Under the microscope, there was a solder ball down under the connector. I would have started by inspecting the connectors.I would like to have that scope. Newer MB than my old one. Guessing much faster.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 01:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 18, 2024, 12:34:17 amI was assuming he came to a closure with the seller before digging in. But ... maybe notImagine the reaction of the seller when he receive the returned scope in parts. And the worst is that I'm sure Ebay would side with the buyer.A similar scope sold for 1675$ 2 days ago on ebayhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/235512623988. I was expecting a lot higher.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 01:36:36 pm
content: Sounds like it may need a new screen but the one picture they show, I didn't notice the defects seller mentions. Even without any options, that was a deal, assuming it has no other problems.I bought a DMM from a large distributor people use here. When it arrived, it was pretty obvious some wannabe reviewer had taken it apart and in the process had damaged a cable and lost a screw, then returned it.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 08:20:48 am
content: I don't get it, why not just keep the scope you seem to be happy with (minus some issues) and instead of shelling out 15k to 20k for another not-perfect scope (aka compromise) rather spend another 3K or so to get a fully working known to be good (no bent boards and/or chassis, etc.) of the model you have? Yes, I know, slow connectivity and storage, etc. but then, is it really worth north of 10k to you to not have those issues anymore? Plus, going the way I'd choose you'd get to keep your current scope as a well known parts box.As for screen size my personal take is, oh well, just use a (comparatively cheap) large VGA monitor. Anyway for most of the daily use the kind of small scope screen is good enough and if and when oneneedsto have a larger display how about a really large one rather than yet another compromise (like 12" vs 8")?Disclaimer: I have a weak spot for LeCroy scopes and thought long and hard before I decided to go for a Wavepro 960/DDA260 (one of the reasons being that it's not Windows infested). Certainly (probably different from you) not my day to day scope but rather the "big monster" for serious cases and/or > 500 MHz.Caveat: I seriously doubt that build quality nowadays is better than back then, but yes, unfortunately older LeCroys are known for some weak spots, in particular poor plastics. But then we don't run a show room but a home lab ... Besides, while highly likely 3D-scanning wouldn't be cheap, 3D printing a new front-plate/cover shouldn't be expensive; once scanned selling the 3D print files for a hobbyist-friendly couple of bucks should recover the scanning investment and get you a nice crack-free front-plate.Finally a quick note re the Siglent option: Iliketheir scopes and don't consider Siglent a brand any worse than say Agilent/keysight/[name of the decade]. In fact I'm very likely to buy a 3000 as my everyday/mid-range analysis scope.But: I would not (yet) consider their 6000 and 7000 series as a serious option.Whatever route you choose, please continue your multimeter tests (videos)! I really like them and lot a value them highly.Friendly regards

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 08:51:07 am
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 08:20:48 amCould you elaborate why, if you are willing to?What is making you say so?Thanks and best regards,Siniša

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 09:25:16 am
content: I would also be interested in the reasoning behind this.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 09:57:24 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on April 19, 2024, 08:51:07 amDiverse reasons, the main one being that maturity isn't achieved "overnight". With Siglent scopes, I'm talking about the up to 3000 and 5000 series, maturing could be observed and maturity has been reached. That also means and includes practical experience and many details e.g. in, but not limited to production and firmware. But reaching maturity needs time and the experience coming with it.Also the 80/20 rule plays a major role and that also again translates to time. To put it simply, pretty much any company, and many chinese companies demonstrate that, can design and produce an "80%" scope but it's the remaining 20% that really need time, experience, and major efforts (and money) and one should note that quite a few companies (Owon comes to mind as one example) seem to not even care and to intentionally address and (largely) build for the "80%" market that is, basically kind of nice instruments but with kinks, weaknesses, no or few and late firmware updates, etc.It's the remaining 20% that make all the difference. With scopes up to 3000/5000 series Siglent IMOhas hadthe time,has gainedthe experience, andhas demonstratedthe will to go "the extra mile", in short, became a mature player.Scopes in the GHz range though is a different breed of beast (also in terms of $$) and while I have no doubt that Siglent will achieve maturity there too I think that one should not underestimate how much time is needed for that.Also, of course, for a hobby lab the $1000 to $3000 region probably is within range, at least for many, the $10000+ highly likely is not. Plus, reviews and teardowns play a major role in that market and as of now (credible) reviews and good and full teardowns of the high-end series still are rare. To put it bluntly, before I (or most hobbyists) shell out $10000+ (plus active probes which as of now are as few as teardowns and not exactly cheap either) I, at a very minimum want to see some credible reviews from collegues I can take seriously (i.e. e.g. max 1 'lol' per post) and some teardowns.As I said, I don't have any doubt that Siglent sooner or later will arrive there, but as of now IMO they are not yet really there.As a side note, that also shows in their active probes. AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).Friendly regardsP.S. What I just wrote also shows in humans and human thinking (or "thinking"). Just one example: IMO for a mature person thinking not just superficially, active probes and >= 1 GHz scopes go hand in hand. After all, what good is a 3 GHz scope without, preferablygood and matureprobes? LeCroy, for instance, has quite a few mature, "battle proven" active probes and plenty of info on them.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 11:28:15 am
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 09:57:24 amHello,do I understand correctly that you consider the SDS3000X HD to be fully developed?Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 12:46:05 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 09:57:24 amAre you under the impression that the 6000 and 7000 series are using a different platform?

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 01:24:08 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 19, 2024, 11:28:15 amPretty much yes, although obviously with some reservation because pretty much nobody has properly tested the 3000 HD yet. But looking at what Siglent has shown so far in experience and workmanship with up to 500 or so MHz scopes I see no reason to doubt that that scope will turn out to be a fine and mature scope (modulo some initial firmware issues which however seem to be normal nowadays). So I'dknowthat an early on bought 3000 is highly likely to not be fully mature, but also that Siglent would iron out any kinks pretty soon (Disclosure: it wouldn't be my main everyday scope, so I could afford to allow for a few months to finally reach full maturity. If that were not the case I'd prefer to wait a bit with the purchase).Also, but that is not an objective fact but only my opinion, Siglent doesn't seem to follow the "just somehow generate revenue" route, but rather seems to aim for being seen as an 'A' brand, based on what I've seen so far. Also (sorry to Rigol fans) unlike Rigol who seems to bet on (supposedly) fancy ASICs, Siglent seems to focus more on actual quality and reliability (plus, of course, features and gadgets like lots of memory, Bode plots, large-ish screens, etc, but hey, to close up to the recognized big players theymustoffer some attractive differences).Friendly regardsQuote from: KungFuJosh on April 19, 2024, 12:46:05 pmThere are two major factors wrt the answer to your question, a) what exactly do you mean by "platform"? and b) having some halfway concrete knowledge about those series - so I'll pass for the moment.But generally speaking I'd be somewhat surprised if those scopes were "just" say a 5000 but with way higher bandwidth (faster frontends, ADCs etc.). AFAIC I also see the rather significant price difference as a clear hint. With a 5Gs/s 500 MHz scope you can get away with a significantly cheaper core (FPGA, processors, memory) than when you design a say 15, 20 or even higher Gs/s 2+ GHz scope.In fact, but warning, this clearly is speculation territory, I'm wondering why Siglent, who has gained a lot of experience in bringing out new scope series, suddenly seems to have quite some problems with the new HD series. My suspicion, and again is speculation territory, is that something that's considered of major, if not vital importance, unexpectedly "came in between" and disturbed the otherwise well oiled cogs of Siglent's machinery. An ASIC could be such a thing (or some problem with it).I may be utterly wrong but the way I see it, Siglent has - wrt scopes - decided to serve mainlytwomarket segments, namely quality scopes, roughly speaking to the typical < 1 GHz market, and quality scopes at and in particular above 1 GHz, aiming for industry, research etc that is, a quite different clientele. But it's hard to build say 3 (or even higher) GHz scopes with basically the architecture of say, the 2000 series. For that they highly likely want to have their own ASIC, which to target and designsmartlyisn't exactly easy. Myspeculationis that they want a "workhorse" that can handleboth"families", the up to 500 or 700 or 800 MHz 12-bit scopes as well as the 8-bit high bandwidth scopes. And to put yourself next to Agilent/[whatever current name], LeCroy brands youneeda bloody good and fast core.Finally one should also not forget that "the west" has terrorized (e.g. all sorts of sanctions) China for a long time. If China wants to not only survive but reach and keep an 'A' class place, basicallyagainstall odds, theyneedroughly equivalent TME. I'll put it this way: they increasingly say "thanks no" to western computers and prefer to build and use their own and I guess that the day they say "thanks no" to western TME brands will come too.Whatever, I trust that Siglent will stay and actually become even more successful and that the 3000 HD, after a relatively short phase of ironing out initial kinks will be a fine scope.And yes, there's lots of speculation in what I just wrote and I may be utterly wrong and have to eat my hat.Friendly regards

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 01:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 01:24:08 pmThere are no major bugs in the HD series, only some minor bugs, and already most were fixed. Newer bugs were reported and will be fixed in the next firmware update. This isn't special WRT to Siglent or the HD series; it's simply the way it is when new scopes are released from ANY brand. There is no 80/20 release nonsense. It's more like 98/2, but only because the 2 is generally unknowns.China has also allegedly made plans to remove western tech brands from government use. This is not particularly relevant, as Siglent is not China; they're a company IN China. Keysight and Tektronix are brands in the USA, not actually the USA. This type of speculation is not relevant, and speculation in general serves little use since facts and data over time exist.Siglent is already an "A brand" and has proven such with both their release of high quality products, and superior support WRT firmware updates and customer service.All of their modern scopes are essentially using the same platform (soft/firmware). Obviously there is specific things used for each series to support the hardware differences.Getting back to the point, you think the 3000 series is well matured, beyond the 7000 series. Well, guess what? The 6000 and 7000 series have been out longer and already received updates and support, and will continue to do so as needed. They're simply more mature. The difference is the price point, and that's why you don't see a lot of demo videos or teardowns. Unless I won the lottery and didn't care, I would not be quick to take apart a $20k scope and void the 3-year warranty.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 01:50:57 pm
content: KungFuJoshOr, in other words, I'm clueless and stupid.Well you have every right to your own view and I respect that. Time will tell if and if so, how wrong I am.Friendly regards nevertheless

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 02:24:56 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 01:50:57 pmI never said anything like that. Nothing that I said was directed at you, or with ill intent. Don't take it personally if somebody doesn't agree with you. You speculated about something, and I disagreed with your speculation and presented information. It's as simple as that.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 03:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 08:20:48 amThat is now plan A. I had recently posted in the LeCroy user group asking about the SN to get a heads up on swapping parts. There was a post recently of a much newer WaveBlunder for well under 2, bare bones. "Working" That would have been ideal. It is very possible that new firmware would improve their stupid calibration algorithm. I have not upgraded mine since acquired. It's been mentioned a few times about upgrading the CPU. I had ditched the old hard drive and increased the memory when it first arrived. CPU according to a past member offers a significant boost. May be an option but that is going to be old used parts.In general I normally purchase things that are worth it to me and only if I can afford them. This particular scope sees a lot of use and any problems it has eat away at the fun factor.Assuming I get another reliable WaveBlunder, I still plan to procure a brand new scope. It's a hobby, so not that I have a need for any of it, but I would personally like to see how some of these modern scopes perform.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 03:24:08 pm
content: I doubt you'll get rid of the calibration. It is something Lecroys do. I'm on the most recent version for my Wavepro 7k series and it auto-calibrates whenever it wants. It seems to be temperature dependant though. So after a while the calibrations are less frequent. Annoying but I don't use the Wavepro as my daily driver scope so I can live with it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 03:50:25 pm
content: I'm fine with running autocal to meet performance. That's no problem. What I have a problem with is it will not autocal without a trigger. I couldn't tell you how many times I have setup to trigger on an infrequent condition and when the event finally happens, rather than showing me some possibly uncal'ed data because it drifted a few degrees, it runs it's calibration. If I am trying to use the scope like this from a cold start, good luck. For my use where I am only typically needing ballparkish numbers, loosing data even if it does not meet the manufactures stated error is never acceptable. They provide me with the option to disable the autocal but it doesn't really turn it off. I am running 7.x.x firmware. Looks like they are up to 8.x.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 03:54:18 pm
content: If you need a specific Firmware let me know. Got quite a collection from 6.5 to 8.6 all 32bits.Sadly, most of them were removed from LeCroy websiteI'm looking for 64bits firmware at the moment. If anyone has any I would be interested.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 04:20:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 19, 2024, 03:24:08 pmOn the 7300a you can slow down calibration and disable temperature related calibration. I guess this is not available on all models.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 05:08:29 pm
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 19, 2024, 03:54:18 pmInteresting. I had tried to download the latest from LeCroy/Teledyne and of course, they want me to create an account. No big deal, so I follow along. Then it says I need to wait 2-3 days while they figure out if I am worthy of admittance. So I wait and wait and wait.....I'm fine with the firmware I am running and the only reason I would upgrade is the off chance they improved the autocal. If you have a change log for the WaveBlunder's firmware and they make mention of it, could you please post that here. Not the firmware but the change log.I'm guessing there could be some sort of legal problem with you distributing their firmware so if I don't have any luck with the proper channels, I'll hit you up with a PM. Big thanks for the offer!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 05:21:46 pm
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 19, 2024, 04:20:37 pmSimilar to the WaveBlunder. I leave it on as it does me no good. Autocal on this scope takes maybe 1 - 3 seconds. Basically a life time.I have been using firmware 7.6.1.1. Guessing this was from 2014, as it appears I archived it. So if you decide to check the change log, it at least gives you a starting point.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 05:24:47 pm
content: I unfortunately don't have the change log.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 05:49:45 pm
content: No problem. Thanks for checking.I first posted about this scope in 2015. There was some conversation about the SSD. The Transend has been in there 9 years and counting without a single problem. That's with a fair amount of use.I thought this is where they had recommended the CPU upgrade.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teledyne-lecroy-waverunner-64xi/Found it.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-oscilloscope-buy/msg765218/#msg765218

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 07:08:59 pm
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 19, 2024, 05:24:47 pmI found all the release notes on LeCroy website:https://www.teledynelecroy.com/support/techlib/releasenotes.aspx?type=4&cat=1&capid=106&mid=528&smid=659

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 07:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: Kosmic on April 19, 2024, 07:08:59 pmROFLMAO!! I need an account to view the change logs. The Teledyne/LeCroy gods have not deemed me worthy of such privilege.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 08:59:09 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 19, 2024, 09:57:24 amYou overlooked Siglent's recent inhouse design of 5 GHz differential probes.https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/They are not listed as accessories for any of the lower BW models other than for the current 3&4 GHz SDS7000A range.....later this year to be expanded to include 6&8 GHz models.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 05:15:40 am
content: New firmware installed. Appears to run fine. I'll let the scope cool overnight and try it with the autocal disabled.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 10:06:07 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 19, 2024, 08:59:09 pmWell, I related to what I could find on Siglent's website. But anyway, good news! Thanks.Quote from: joeqsmith on April 19, 2024, 07:23:42 pmWhat's to complain about, you low-life who dared to (AFAIK) never buy TME worth millions of $ from them, and who, to make things worse, dared to "infest" many with a "I like LeCroy" virus?!I'm an example of your "victims". I always took you to be someone who again and again, intentionally or not, showed a LeCroy scope to be something nice and desirable.On a more serious note: situations like this one are appalling to me. How a largish corporation dares to clearly not give a flying f_ck about a grown up man/customer, no matter whether direct or indirect, who (AFAIK) never uttered anything in any way unfair about them.One more reason for us to hope and wait for somewhat equivalent alternatives from Siglent and possibly others. And @Siglent, pay attention! There's an important lesson to learn here. Stay the way you are, continue to listen to customers and to treat them well and fair!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 10:25:52 am
content: Quote from: moerm on April 20, 2024, 10:06:07 amDunno which you looked at but just checked the US, EU, HQ and even the Japanese websites and SAP5000D is listed on all of them as an option for SDS7000A models.Maybe that Antarctic website you're using is a little outdated ?

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 11:46:10 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 20, 2024, 10:25:52 amNuh, probably the 6000 series site. I was bothered enough by the fact that I couldn't find "probes" in the "products" selection.Whatever, I'm pleased that I was wrong on that one and that Siglent has more and faster active probes than I thought.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 02:09:20 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 20, 2024, 10:06:07 amWhen I bought the first one, there really was nothing brand new with a decent BW and in my price range. I was familiar with the brand and bought a used one. That scope is has many features that you would only find in a high end scope still today. Then again, there are things a cheap modern scope can do that this scope can't. Consider math functions were important for physics. Modern scopes have a lot of digital decoding for example.We don't appear to do much in the states and guessing the high end market dried up. Companies needed to find some way to be profitable. As they shift their focus to higher volume, lower end test equipment and rebranding, hard to say how it will work out.Quote from: moerm on April 20, 2024, 10:06:07 amA few years ago, a member here had provided details on how to defeat the licensing with their older X-Stream software. There were some comments about LeCroy not letting that slide as they still used that software with some of their current products. And they make money on those licenses. I suspect at least some of their reluctance to remain more open was due to this little episode.

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 02:45:31 pm
content: Teledyne is also probably responsable for their current stance. I tried buying a scope from an Official Teledyne/LeCroy store on ebay and they had me fill a form and wanted company number and everything. They ended up cancelling the sale since my application was refused even though I provided everything they asked. Probably easier to buy from them if you are base in the US.Anyway, I still like their products

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 02:56:16 pm
content: With the new firmware installed, the autocal behaves the same.You can turn off the autocal but it is not sticky. Once the scope has been power cycled, it will be enabled. They will store all of the settings as defaults on power down but this function is not included. My guess is customers would bitch about the inaccuracy. They may be some INI or registry setting that would overwrite how the autocal works but I have never seen anything published for it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 08:56:51 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 20, 2024, 11:46:10 amNot unexpected the 5 GHz probes are not listed as an accessory for 2 GHz scopes as the 2.5 GHz active probes cover this range.Quote from: joeqsmith on April 20, 2024, 02:56:16 pmI'm torn on this one.Like you I wish for total control and anything not required for a quick measurement need have the functionality to be set to OFF and remain this way after reboot.The more serious user of course knows an instrument needs to get to temp equilibrium before taking precise measurements but to have LeCroy holding their hand seems a little OTT just so they won't get complaints of system performance when the scope is still cold.Do you have a User definable Default to change this behaviour with a single button press immediately after boot ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 09:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 20, 2024, 02:56:16 pmIn the end Lecroy scopes like these aren't made to be used as daily drivers. These are to be considered data acquisition & signal analyses systems in 1 box for which accuracy and repeatability of measurements matters most. Sure you can use them as an oscilloscope up to some point but there are limits due to the relatively simple architecture (completely seperated acquisition & processing logic) Lecroy used.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 09:16:55 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 20, 2024, 02:09:20 pmSimilar here plus "the targeted at research" was attractive to me. But frankly, if someone like you isn't worth (to them) to be treated well I have only a GFY! for them.Quote from: joeqsmith on April 20, 2024, 02:09:20 pmTo the former I don't comment as that would risk to get (or be taken by some as) "political".Re the latter, frankly, I think they missed that train. Siglent nowadays is a very acceptable alternative and I strongly doubt that your (or my) region will be able to compete with chinese wages and costs.Sad, I really liked LeCroy until I found out what a__holes they can be (generally are towards "small fish"?).Quote from: joeqsmith on April 20, 2024, 02:09:20 pmThey won't like how (certainly not only) I react to that. "I don't give a flying f_ck about your needs and wants" is an attitude not reserved for LeCroy ...It's simple: Once I own something I can do - and do - with it whatever I please and I happen tolike"looking" at code (incl. binary) and I also happen to have a not insignificant amount of expertise in crypto.As long as I don'tsellwhat I discover they can KMA.I hope, you somehow get ahold of the firmware you need.Quote from: tautech on April 20, 2024, 08:56:51 pmTurn it whichever way you want, incl. - probably correctly - assuming that I'm sometimes stupid.But that won't change the fact that I won't consider Siglent active probes a day earlier then when they have a "probe" section in their "product" main menu.Although IlikeSiglent a lot, I really do.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 09:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on April 20, 2024, 09:16:55 pmYou and me both !QuoteYep there are some inconsistencies across their websites, the US have an Accessories header but none of their other sites seem to.Yet we can drill down and see any accessory is in such a list and then find other products that might not be listed on a product page.Have a squiz here in the US site:https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/QuoteThey've been a darn good company to deal with for our now 11 years with them, not perfect in any way but darn good regardless.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 10:18:07 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 20, 2024, 08:56:51 pmIt's a scope and 8-bits at that. Precise measurements may be a bit of a stretch under the best case.As for the single button, not that I am aware of. You maneuver to the menu, select a tab, disable the autocal. Typically, turn the scope on. Maybe after 10 minutes you set it manually, assuming you remember. I'm not sure how you could have your cake and eat it too. I can understand why they chose to make it work this way but I can't understand why they don't offer other options. It really only comes into play when looking at slow signals and forgetting to disable that feature after power up. If it had some intelligent mode where if the temperature has changed and there are no trigger events for some time, manually trigger. Of course then I would be pissed I lost my data I captured on the screen.Quote from: nctnico on April 20, 2024, 09:10:50 pmInteresting opinion. While I consider my WaveMaster to be a bit too specialized for my daily use, not so with the WaveBlunder. Consider my first scope was an old tube type Dumont. I doubt it had a MHz BW. The first brand new scope I purchased for home was a Hitachi analog with a Z80. It had some digital readouts on the screen, 4-channel, and a 100MHz BW. My first real use of a DSO was a large Tektronix mainframe where I worked. All scopes. Wouldn't have a use for any of them today.QuoteNow we could split that down from there but I consider any DSO to include data acquisition & signal analyses. I suspect the limits you mention are not something I have a use for, or it is my lack of owning a modern scope making me oblivious to them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 10:34:25 pm
content: The most common oscilloscopes have a tight coupling between the acquisition and generating the visible traces (rendering). This allows for dealing with deep memory in a faster way, doing hardware decoding and rendering acquisitions into traces much faster. The way Keysight has constructed their Megazoom Asic based scopes is the complete opposite of how Lecroy oscilloscopes are setup. You'd say they are both oscilloscopes but they are different like a Philips and Torx screwdriver are different.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 10:52:49 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 20, 2024, 10:18:07 pmHow much time does your autocal consume ?I dug out my SDS6204A of which I wasdarn sureI could disable the QuickCal but now it seems not.@~10m a 2s QuickCal is performed.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 11:07:51 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 20, 2024, 08:56:51 pmIs the 2.5 GHz figure probe-only bandwidth or bandwidth at the probe tip with a supported scope? If the former, then connecting a probe with 2.5 GHz -3dB bandwidth to a scope with 2 GHz -3 dB bandwidth won't give the full 2 GHz bandwidth, and there is a valid argument for using a higher bandwidth probe to maximize the bandwidth with that scope. For example look atthis Agilent 1156/7/8A datasheetwhere they specify recommend a 1.5 GHz probe for a 1 GHz scope, a 2.5 GHz probe for a 1.5 GHz scope and a 4 GHz probe for a 2.25 GHz scope.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 11:18:22 pm
content: Quote from: alm on April 20, 2024, 11:07:51 pmGood question yet as always RTFM.P17https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/11/SAP1000_SAP2500_UserManual-EN01A.pdf

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 12:20:50 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 20, 2024, 11:18:22 pmUnless the F****** manual is misleading. Can you explain, particularly for the SAP1000, how a 1 GHz bandwidth probe on a 1 GHz scope can have a 1 GHz bandwidth at the probe tip, while it should be -6 dB down at 1 GHz by the definition of bandwidth being the -3 dB point? Either the probe-only bandwidth is overly conservative (the minimum guaranteed bandwidth must be well above 1 GHz), or the bandwidth at the probe tip is way optimistic. If the "1 GHz" probe is actually guaranteed to be > 1.5 GHz probe-only, that would be useful information when using the probe with a scope with a wider bandwidth.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 12:29:34 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 20, 2024, 10:52:49 pmQuote from: joeqsmith on April 19, 2024, 05:21:46 pmSo there I am, waiting for my illusive event and the scope's temperature/time/whatever has changed and it wants to autocal but is stuck waiting for the trigger, just like I am. Then it happens, the elusive trigger that both the autocal and me have been waiting on. The scope starts the autocal. A second event happens immediately and it is still running the autocal.Quote from: nctnico on April 20, 2024, 10:34:25 pmAt least its not cars this time. But yes, I understand your point except I really have nothing to gauge it on. In other words, my perspective would be based on 15+ year old tech. I have no clue as to what LeCroy, Keysight, or any other scope manufactures offer today.One page 1, I showed using the WaveBlunder to decode the SPI bus on a radio used in a cheap multi-meter.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-a-replacement-general-purpose-oscilloscope-for-home-use/msg5442182/#msg5442182That was a pretty clean environment. Here I showed it sniffing the communications on my bikes, while running. For my use cases around the house, it's been good enough for most tasks. I consider it good general purpose scope. It's just not mechanically very robust and a few other problems. Maybe a new mid range scope would be better.https://youtu.be/h9pixcy3GOU

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 12:35:42 am
content: Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 12:20:50 amMaybe you missed this bit from theWarranted characteristicstable:Bandwidth (with scope)1 GHz（SDS5104X） 2 GHz（SDS6204A）

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 09:33:00 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 21, 2024, 12:35:42 amIf you sell scopes, then I think it's important to know that if you have a 1 GHz BW signal generator feeding into a 1 GHz BW probe into a 1 GHz BW scope, then the guaranteed frequency response is -9 dB at 1 GHz, so the -3 dB bandwidth will be substantially less than 1 GHz (about 500 MHz for a classic 1st order Gaussian response). To guarantee -3 dB at 1 GHz all components need to have substantially more than 1 GHz of guaranteed bandwidth. Exactly how much more depends on the shape of the frequency response of each component. You are basically adding up the curves (in dB, multiplying in linear voltage units). If you prefer time domain, then you can also talk about the geometric sum of rise times, but I couldn't find a rise time specification for this probe.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 09:53:55 am
content: Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 09:33:00 amYou can find some further info on SAP1000 from this post about probe testing:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/probe-into-probes-whats-up/msg4678768/#msg4678768The measured rise times are all there for you to do some simple maths.Not datasheet rise times but actual real measurements !

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 04:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 09:33:00 amTextbook doctrins are far too simplistic to reflect the real world. They don't help much when it comes to practical applications.It would be more helpful to know that neither a (not bandwidth-limited) wideband oscilloscope frontend nor any oscilloscope probe will actually have a first order gaussian response and any serious levelled signal generator will have an amplitude flatness of <1 dB (0.5 dB if you don't exploit its full requency range).Back in early 2019, I've measured the system bandwidth of an SAP1000 prototype in combination with a pre-production unit of the SDS5104X (Siglents first GHz-DSO). That resulted in ~1.11 GHz:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/msg2165488/#msg2165488The bandwidth of the DSO frontend with direct coax connection was only very slightly better at 1.17 GHz and I need to stress that the frequency flatness of my pre-production SDS5000X was not optimal yet and the frontend for the final devices has undergone some redesign.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/at-last-siglent_s-sds5054x-touchscreen/msg2430978/#msg2430978

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 04:29:32 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on April 21, 2024, 04:07:43 pmAre you saying that in the real world, a probe with 1 Ghz -3 dB bandwidth with a scope with 1 GHz -3dB bandwidth will have 1 GHz system bandwidth? Because that's what the warranted specifications say. Any SAP1000 with a probe-only bandwidth of 1.01 Ghz is considered in spec according to the manual, as is any SDS5104X with 1.01 Ghz bandwidth. Is the roll-off is that sharp that these two together will have at least 1 GHz system bandwidth together? Or does Siglent do DSP correction for these probes?Quote from: Performa01 on April 21, 2024, 04:07:43 pmSo clearly that particular probe and scope are performing better than advertised. Certainly nice for you as a user, but not something one can consistently rely on, otherwise obviously the manufacturer would have put it in the datasheet.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 05:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 04:29:32 pmIt's actually typical of Siglent to modestly rate their toys.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 06:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 04:29:32 pmI am confused as to what what datasheet/manual you are using.In manual I just downloaded, Siglent clearly states:SAP1000Bandwidth (probe only) >1 GHzBandwidth (with scope) 1 GHz（SDS5104X)SAP2500Bandwidth (probe only) >2.5 GHzBandwidth (with scope) 2 GHz（SDS6204A）So unlike what you are saying, it clearly specifies system BW. And states that probe BW is larger to guarantee system BW.Like Performa I tested too, but with 1GHz SDS6104H12 and SDS3104xHD.BW is 1GHz combined.Same is with their differential active probes.Their 5GHz SAP5000D isBandwidth (Probe only) >5 GHzBandwidth (with Oscilloscope) 4GHz（SDS7404A）I didn't test it myself (yet) but Siglent is, if anything, very conservative with BW specifications.I will test if I have a chance, but I expect it to match BW specs without problems.My biggest problem is generating test signal of sufficient amplitude flatness up to 5GHz at this moment.

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 06:13:38 pm
content: Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 04:29:32 pmThe textbook statement was a general one, because especially passive high impedance probes usually do not behave like a low-pass at all, let alone a first order Gaussian one.Siglent list their active probes as accessory for certain oscilloscopes and then a 1 GHz probe actually means that you get at least 1 GHz system-bandwidth with that probe in conjunction with the scope(s) it belongs to. And that’s not only true for active probes. I guess this is pretty common - try to measure the system bandwidth of your Keysight or Tek oscilloscope and see how the textbook theory applies (not!) – if you use the industry standard test method, that is.If on the other hand, you take a random probe, just because it has a high bandwidth rating and looks sexy, and use it with a DSO were the HF-compensation of the probe doesn’t fit, you might actually end up with a performance that is worse than with matching probes that have a lower bandwidth rating.Quote from: alm on April 21, 2024, 04:29:32 pmUp to this point I’ve never seen any serious T&M-gear that would not exceed its specifications. For lower end devices, this is usually even more pronounced. Have you tried to calculate what bandwidth the SAP1000 would have to have according to the textbook, in order to achieve a system bandwidth of 1.11 GHz when the bandwidth of the DSO itself is 1.17 GHz? You should definitely try this exercise 😉

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 06:30:12 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on April 21, 2024, 06:13:38 pmI have certainly used active FET probes on instruments like spectrum analyzers and scopes they may not have been designed for. Both higher and lower bandwidth than the probe. Their output are a standard 50 Ohm, after all. Nothing brand-specific about them other than power supply. Does Siglent do HF compensation (DSP correction) on their 50 Ohm probes in the 1-2 GHz range? I know other brands do it for the high bandwidth 20 GHz+ probes, but I wouldn't expect this to be necessary for a 1 GHz probe.Quote from: Performa01 on April 21, 2024, 06:13:38 pmI'm not complaining about the instrument exceeding its published specifications. That is pretty normal indeed. But the specifications are not consistent with each other. To meet the 1 GHz bandwidth at the probe tip, both scope and probe need to substantially exceed (the definition of substantial depends on the steepness of their response curves) 1 GHz bandwidth on their own. So what if I send the SAP1000 to a cal lab. They probably won't have the exact Siglent scope it was made for, so they might use a network analyzer, or a wider bandwidth Siglent scope, to test the bandwidth. They measure the SAP1000 bandwidth to be slightly above 1 GHz as stated in the data sheet, and declare it meeting its specifications. Yet this may not be enough to guarantee it meeting the 1 GHz at the probe tip spec. I expect an "A-brand" to have their specifications in order, and not written by an intern who failed the signal processing course.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2024, 12:58:31 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on April 21, 2024, 05:00:06 pmIt doesn't matter. Warranted specs are the specification you base the certainty of the measurement results on. If you buy 10 oscilloscopes to use in a production line, you aren't going to measure each of them AND/OR trust they won't get worse over time and temperature due to component temperate, drift and aging.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2024, 02:40:41 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on April 21, 2024, 06:13:38 pmAgree completely.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2024, 03:38:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 22, 2024, 12:58:31 pmYes, you're right, it doesn't matter because the datasheet clearly states that the probes are independently over spec'd, and meet the stated bandwidth connected to the scopes. 🤷

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 01:26:34 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 21, 2024, 12:29:34 amDid you try disabling from the service menu ? I was reading the service manual for the WaveRunner 6k series and they have a chapter about autocal. I have no idea if those settings are permanent though.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 04:21:04 pm
content: Bought a CPU for this scope in attempt to upgrade it. Part came out of China. I assume pulls. After install, scope ran fine for about a half hour, then blue screen. Then would only run for a minute. Then never again. Installed the original CPU and back in business. Afraid it's a total crap shoot for trying to upgrade.On the bright side, it did not improve the screen refresh rates. I'm sure there would be some advantage when running their post processing but as far as the general display updates, I measured no difference.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 04:18:39 pm
content: We bought a few Siglent DSOs to play with. Of course, the first thing I did was make sure the encoders actually worked and saw no problems at all. Nice. It's missing a few things, like quad or dual display modes but all in all, very nice. Things like autocal are a non-issue. This alone is a big plus. Screen update rates, just wow.I may have to reconsider my stance on Siglent. That Arb was a turd but the scopes are looking good.I noticed someone here had hacked their Arb to add a small micro to interface between the encoder and the main controller. I understood this solved the problem. Even for home use though, I wouldn't be up to a hack like this with a brand new instrument.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 06:02:35 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 25, 2024, 04:18:39 pmWell, if you have multiple scopes, you have multiple display mode. 😉

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 06:20:14 pm
content: I plugged the crappy Arb into the scope and tried the Bode plot. The scope controls the Arb so the poor encoder interface is a non-issue. Even with a limited number of data points, it's very slow. Still, pretty fun to play with.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 06:59:13 pm
content: What models are you looking at?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 07:44:19 pm
content: 3000 series. Amazed how well that Arb played with the scope. Also, just how user friendly everything is. I am now taking the time to read the manual.I think for home use, I want that 7000.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 08:14:08 pm
content: QuoteA good choice...QuoteThis would give you the multi-window you know from Lecroy again.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 09:27:58 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 25, 2024, 07:44:19 pm7k is next level and some.Had a first short play with one at HQ recently and snapped it next to a 3k on the right.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 01:05:53 pm
content: Really, I want the large screen of the 7000 and some of it's features but don't want to pay for the higher BW. It's not fast enough to let me toss my old WM and it's overkill for replacing the WR. The daily driver has been reliable after the board swap which alleviated the need to replace it in short order.Talking with LeCroy about the parts scope, it too had failed the same way and had been in for service. LeCroy swapped the board. It must have been a common problem. Good to have mine working again as I really like that old scope. But damn, that Siglent will eat it for lunch in 90% of the cases and brings a lot more to the table. They are doing things with the firmware that I would normally have written custom software for. It's very impressive.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 01:36:35 pm
content: if you need a sds7000 for home use, what do you use for work

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 03:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 26, 2024, 01:05:53 pmFrom the thread title, I understand you've not intended to replace your WM anyway. Just out of curiosity: what speed (bandwidth, sample rate) would be fast enough?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 03:17:52 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 26, 2024, 01:05:53 pmOn the same page here, had 10" displays for some years but always wanted something bigger despite well knowing the webserver can port to whatever display size the PC has.Jumped up to the 12" display SDS6204A shortly after release and while it's big enough it's no comparison to the 15" 7k now having sat in front of one.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 05:35:36 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on September 26, 2024, 03:12:15 pmCorrect, I plan to keep the WM.From the very first post that outlined my requirements and wants:Analog Bandwidth @ 50ohms 300 500 MHzSingle shot sample rateAll channels active 2G 5G spsHalf channels 10G

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 07:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 26, 2024, 05:35:36 pmIn actual fact I've asked for the speed of your WM - and at the same time tried to make clear that it is just out of curiosity and I'm aware that you don't plan to replace it...Quote from: joeqsmith on September 26, 2024, 05:35:36 pmWith regard to this, I don't think you will easily find a 5-times oversamplong in modern DSOs anymore. A 500 MHz DSO with 10 GSa/s half channel sample rate would have to be a massively artificially bandwidth limited version of an upper midrange instrument, where the top model still has the usual 1.25-times oversampling, i.e. 2 GHz bandwidth.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 08:18:17 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on September 26, 2024, 07:43:31 pmThe WM8500A is 5GHz BW, 20Gs. It's close to 20 years old now, but the manuals and datasheets are still available on-line if you would like more details.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 10:53:05 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on September 26, 2024, 01:36:35 pmBelieve it or not, I've met numerous customers who have nicer test instruments in their home lab than what their employer provides them in their work lab.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 11:43:45 am
content: I believe you... I have a $5 multimeter at work and a sds2000x hd at home !

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 12:49:39 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 26, 2024, 09:27:58 amTell me about Siglent's plastic parts. 15 year old plastic parts starting to fail?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 01:06:12 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 12, 2025, 12:49:39 amNot seen any in 12yrs fail other than from abuse.That case, a few years back was a tilting bail on a AWG folded back to the stowed position without spreading the bail arms to disengage the locking pins.Result = no more locking pins.IIRC the replacement that arrived in the next order cost me $4 which I just sent on through as the paperwork to bill it would cost more.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 01:16:07 am
content: I would really like to see that 7000 apart in detail. After playing with the 3000, does the 7000 support English rather than Chinese for the help menus?All I can figure is the LeCroy ME's didn't understand that sharp edges are stress risers and making plastic razor thin to achieve a certain look, or to shave a gram of weight is bad. I'll take function over form any day of the week.I think the writing is on the wall for the 64xi.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 01:28:09 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 12, 2025, 01:16:07 amI'll see if I can get some pics from HQ.....but now much detail they show might be another story.7000A is a solid beast....just looked it up as 10.6kg !Double the weight of my SDS6204A.....QuoteThat must be a 3000 bug and do know 7000A is an older product which should have most fleshed out by now.I'll get a beta tester to check on this for you....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 06:55:45 am
content: A few pics in this post Joe and chasing/looking for more:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg4642900/#msg4642900

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 04:57:43 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 12, 2025, 01:16:07 amHello.SDS7000A with software I have has English Help.It is not fully complete, some options are not documented in help yet.All basic functions are covered though.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 07:50:17 pm
content: Showing vents for two versions of the LeCroy Waveblunder. The honey comb (my scope) was built October of 06. I would expect this to be the older of the two with more stress risers and less material but the other scope was actually built in February 06. Looks like they need more air flow (mine runs hot). I cracked the honey comb vent on mine when I picked up the cover once to install it. More epoxy.Note all the stress risers in the mounting hole. This one has several cracks like mine but has just not fallen apart yet.The front bezel has a very thin area. These crack.New MEs? No design reviews? Trying to cut cost? I would like to see detailed photos of that Siglent. For $20k, I am expecting something decent.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 08:29:15 pm
content: Have you tried blowing up any of the online images Joe for more clues on the case design ?Main enclosure seems more 'wrap around' with just a rear cover closing everything inside.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 09:27:18 pm
content: I have. For example your photo appears in their user manual. Note what appears to be a missing screw in both photos.It's hard to see the molding hidden inside of the case like I show with my LeCroy without someone doing a complete tear down. Sure, I could guess that they don't have any sharp corners and thin areas. Just that you are not seeing high failures with the plastics after 15 years is a good sign.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 09:44:57 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 12, 2025, 09:27:18 pmI did.Pic was from the websites and they are all the same.....well the three I checked.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 10:01:17 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 12, 2025, 09:44:57 pmSo, why is there a missing screw in their photo shoot? Is that expected?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2025, 12:47:27 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 12, 2025, 10:01:17 pmThat's actually a spy camera.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2025, 01:55:17 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 12, 2025, 10:01:17 pmPerhaps a reset aperture?(Just a wild guess)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 06:50:33 pm
content: I have been using one of the Siglent SDS3034X HD scopes the last couple of days. I noticed that something in my office started to beep. I turned everything off and it cleared what ever was happening. Today I ran into the same problem. It turns out it is this new DSO. After running it for a few hours, it will emit a loud continuous tone. It doesn't show any errors and continues to run. Power cycling it will clear the loud annoying beep.Google search let me down. Scope has a fault? Brand new and I am pretty much the only person who has used it. An easy, short lived life.False alarm. When turning off the DSO the beep stopped, due to it removing a load from the UPS. That UPS was only about a year old and dead already. Reminds me I need to check that super cap UPS mod.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 08:12:51 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 25, 2024, 06:20:14 pmBy design.Allows for settling and averaging before advancing to the next FRA point.When the Bode plot feature is set to a narrow frequency range like we might use for a pass filter the result is presented faster.It's not like a spectrum analyzer single sweep and more like adding both averaging and a fine RBW where we would also use a narrow sweep for speed of results.Siglent bode plot performance is investigated here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1x04x-e-bodeplot-ii-(sfra)-features-and-testing-(coming)/