Need advice on a new oscilloscope - 1500 dollar budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 10:34:43 am
content: I read the newbies sticky thread. I'm sorry for posting this newbie question, but I've been researching for days and couldn't find a good (up to date) answer.I am a first year electrical engineering university student, and I need to buy a digital oscilloscope to work on projects at home. But there are so many many options and I've seen lots of different recommendations, and then other people saying those same scopes are garbage, and sometimes people saying that whole brands are garbage, such as UNI-T and OWON. Others sing their praises.My budget is about 1500 dollars or 1000 euros, but I would rather buy a much cheaper one if it'll serve my purposes. Recommendations for 400-500 dollar "cheap" scopes seem to be a lot easier to come across. One model that I've found almost everybody to be raving about is the Rigol DS1102E, and their 1052E model which is hackable to achieve the former scope's specs. But I'm afraid that I'll outgrow it in less than a year. Also, people were recommending it 3 years ago, isn't it a bit outdated now in its price class?I do not have a good idea of what my future needs will be and this is part of my problem, but I do want something that will suffice for me for a long time. This is a significant investment for me. Am I likely to need a scope with higher specs than the 1102E? Am I likely to need a scope of more than 100 MHZ when I start dabbling in RF soon? At the moment I'm playing with microcontrollers that are only capable of far lower frequency signals. Then again, I have read that in order to do its job properly, the rated frequency of the scope needs to be at least 3 times that of the signal.I've also seen scopes that are much more expensive but on the surface seem to have similar basic specs compared to for example the 1102E. It is hard to see what makes them worth so many hundreds more.What's the best value for money in my budget and what would I need it for that a DS1102E would not suffice for?

author: Pasky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 10:59:02 am
content: Good place to start is the Rigol DS1000Z series or DS2000 series if you only need 2 channels.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 11:09:29 am
content: Thanks, but I'm not really looking for a starting model, I need it to suffice for the more advanced stuff too later on during my university course (and university independent experimentation).

author: Pasky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 11:21:19 am
content: I doubt you'll find anything else for the value at the $1500 and under range in digital scopes. The DS2000's (not sure about the 2000A's) can be keygen'd to provide 200MHZ. I wouldn't exactly call the DS2000 a starter model either.Good luck.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 11:24:19 am
content: 1500 won't buy me a good scope? Damn. I thought there might be some really good value ones for my price range, just like the 1102E seems to be for really low price range.

author: Pasky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 11:28:23 am
content: You're mistaken, the DS2000 series and DS1000Z's are good scopes. I don't think the 1000Z series fits your need as I'm not sure there is a 100+MHZ model. But the DS2000 series does have 200MHZ models and I wouldn't consider them entry level scopes.You can probably get a nice analog scope for much less.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 12:04:17 pm
content: Take a look at what equipment is available to you in the labs at school. Probably not that advanced if its beginner stuff.You're not buying entry level, but the other brands have better value over the original rigols, eg screen size.Dave will tell you Rigol is best bang for buck. If you can afford ds2000 get it over the DS1102E.The only monkey wrench to this plan, is if you need/want 4 channel. In which case the ds1074z or fancy analog cro.Dont think you can afford agilent dso.Spend the rest of your money on cheap logic analyzer for spi/i2s/rs232 buses etc. and stuff you are missing, soldering iron, power supply, devkits.If you need to upgrade later on, cross that bridge when you come to it.You havent invested in junk, like had you shopped on price alone.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 12:19:01 pm
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 11:09:29 amThe DS1000Z series is more than enough to see you through anything, or at least anything that $1500 can buy you. DS2000 if you want to spend more.Seriously, it has awesome capability for the money.At the end of a the day, a DSO still only captures and displays a waveform, so it ultimately always just comes down to the bandwidth, sample rate, memory depth, and number of channels. The 1000Z has plenty of all those.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 12:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: Pasky on February 01, 2014, 11:28:23 amOops, yeah, I keep forgetting the 1000Z is 100MHz only. Still, I wouldn't loose sleep over 200MHz vs 100MHz. There isn't a huge amount of stuff you can do with 200MHz that you can't on 100MHz.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 12:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 10:34:43 amNo, a scope isn't going to help you much with RF (unless it's low enough in freq), a spectrum analyser is a better tool for that.The E series scope is a 5+ year old model now, and unless you are strapped for every last cent, the Z series offers so much more.4 channels is a really handy feature to have, lets you see lots of correlated things a 2CH scope can't show you.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 01:04:06 pm
content: Thanks for all the input. I started to gravitate towards the DS2072, partially because I read that you can hack it to upgrade it massively (300MHZ, 2G samples) and other than that, people were saying that the DS2000 line is far more feature rich. However, it was said earlier in this thread that there isn't much you can do on 200 MHZ that you can't do on 100 MHZ, that makes me put more question marks behind the DS2000 series.So it seems to come down to the more feature rich DS2000 line or the 4 channels on the DS1000Z line. Just how significant is the improvement from DS1000Z to DS2000? Is it exaggerated?

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 01:10:27 pm
content: Also,Quote from: nowlan on February 01, 2014, 12:04:17 pmThere are some agilent models in my price range, for example the DSO1052B and DSO1072B. These are far more expensive though and don't seem to offer more than the cheaper Rigol models from what I can tell.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 01:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2014, 12:39:57 pmExcept the Tektronix MDO4104B-6.The scope of my dreams, if I win the lottery some day

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 01:46:59 pm
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 11:09:29 amGo for the Rigol DS1000Z series. 4 channels, high-res display, decoding functions, portable and long memory. You'll wear this scope out before it becomes useless. For serious RF you'll want a spectrum analyser. Otherwise get a second hand Tektronix TDS5xx or TDS7xx if you want 500MHz (or more) but then you'll also need HF probes (passive divider are the cheapest to buy or make yourself).

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 01:53:48 pm
content: Yeah, DS1000Z is a good buy, but I would like to know if it is worth it to get a DS2000 instead. 2 Channels, but do the other extra features offset this? In other words, what (practical usages) is the DS2000 series good for that DS1000Z isn't?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 02:16:04 pm
content: 4 channels. If a scope doesn't have 4 channels I'm not even going to look at the other specs. Once you used a scope with 4 channels you'll never settle for less. The DS1000Z is currently the best value for money. If you want more bandwidth and 4 channels you have to look at the second hand market if you want to stay within your budget. But then again you'll likely have to do without long memory and decoding.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 02:34:09 pm
content: Thank you for the input. I'm leaning in the direction of the DS1000Z.If having only 2 channels is so horrible, they made a curious design choice with their DS2000 range. I'm curious if there are any differing opinions.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 02:54:42 pm
content: As you said you were into mcu stuff the 4 channels +decode is very useful when working whith decode. Save you money and get your ds1000z it will serve your well you can't go wrong or even get the z-s model whith the function generator two instruments in one.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 03:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2014, 12:35:49 pmIt trigger above 250Mhz and -3db to 130 Mhzeurofox

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 04:39:53 pm
content: I'm looking at the DS1104Z-S, with built-in function generator. I could save 250$ by getting the cheaper 1074 and then hack it to 100mhz of the 1104-S model. If that is possible. I've found guides on hacking other scopes to do something similar, but I cannot find one for the DS1074Z-S, only mentions that it is possible. I would like to know if it is before picking the DS1074Z-S or DS1104Z-S

author: tipofthesowrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 04:59:16 pm
content: I'm pretty much in the same situation. I find myself constantly doubting between the ds1074z and ds2072a.I like the 2 GS/s of the DS2000 and the bigger screen but as Dave said, even if you hack the DS2072a to 200 MHz (which seems to be a lot harder because the with the A version you need a memory dump of your scope to get the private key) there's not that much extra you can do.The deep memory option (more so on the ds2000) and serial decoding are attractive though.Don't forget your sample rate goes down drastically if you have all 4 channels active. And to display 4 channel nicely you need a big screen.At work we use a 4 channel Agilent MSO4000 (previous generation) and that's the first scope where I find I can display all 4 channel comfortably.But with the ds2072a you're talking 700 EUR in the EU (batronix.com) and from that you quickly enter the price range of the Agilent 2000 series (price at Farnell is around 1000 EUR) and with the current bandwidth upgrade option you can get an official 2 channel 200 MHz Agilent scope. But I think it's only 1 GS/s vs 2 GS/s on the Rigol.Some of the negative points I've picked up on for the ds1072z are:- Slow to respond sometimes?- No dedicated vertical control for each channel (this is a real bummer for me!)- Not being able to use the full screen real estate because the side menus can't be hiddenPerhaps somebody who has used both can comment on these.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 05:39:03 pm
content: Everybody seems to think that the 4 channels are far more useful than the added functionality of the 2000 series. Also I'm pretty sure you can upgrade the 2071 to 300mhz not just 200.

author: Watermelon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 08:25:40 pm
content: I've got an TDS520a for sale (in the Netherlands). Fully recapped and with a new NVRAM installed. Drop a PM if you're interested.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 10:30:21 pm
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 01:53:48 pmIn practice, not much.Yeah it's got a bigger screen and nicer segmented memory/replay mode and control, but like I said a scope is a scope, and the DS1000Z has 4 channels and is cheaper.You can always "make do" without the 2000Z's extra features, but if you need 4 channels you can't magically get 4 channels on a 2000Z.Many people value 4 channels above everything else, and I would not argue that they are wrong.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 11:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2014, 10:30:21 pmThanks, that settles it then. The DS1000Z will do. I think I will get the -S version so that I do not have to buy a separate function generator. Next up: a bench power supply with current limiting. I'm torn on whether to make one myself or buy a safe, tested one.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 12:26:57 am
content: I'm going to go against the grain here and say DS2072 all the way unless you NEED 4 channels. I personally feel the build quality of it is higher and the user interface is smoother. I'm not knocking the Z, I just didn't like it as much.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 01:10:19 am
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 02:34:09 pmThey are protecting their upper market scopes that have 4 channels.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 01:57:05 am
content: Quote from: tipofthesowrd on February 01, 2014, 04:59:16 pmDrastically? It drops to half the rate of 2-channel mode. Just like every other DSO with a mux'ed ADC.QuoteWell, if you need a 12" screen to display 4-chans comfortably, then you can easily eliminate the DS1000Z from your consideration. That simplifies your decision a lot.QuoteAren't they all? I.e., it's possible to enable options that slow down the interaction rate. Turn on 256-sample averaging on an Agilent, and it slows down too. The 1000Z may not have a lot of horsepower, but it does have a lot of functionality. 4-channels, REF channel, MATH channel, 2 Decoder channels, FFT, etc. There's plenty of ways to make it feel sluggish. If it becomes problematic for you, turn some of them off. Or buy a different 4-channel scope for 4x as much.Someone recently did a YouTube demo that made the very expensive (compared to the 1000Z) Rigol MSO4000 look like it was crawling through sludge.QuoteDifferent folks have different opinions on this. But a scope with shared verticals is far from useless, or hard to manage. There have been such scopes for many years, and at price points in the 5-figure range. $$,$$$ If they were such a "bummer" for everyone, do think they would have continued to make them?You're only adjusting one channel at a time anyway. For some, it can be just as big a hassle to look back over to select a different set of knobs. Vs. always using the same knobs, but just tapping a chan-select button when your focus changes to a different channel. Potatos, potatoes.QuoteSome may find the side-menus popping up and going away constantly to be even more annoying. And you're seriously going to gripe about having "only" 12 horizontal divisions? When engineers somehow managed to get by with only 10, for how many decades? And the DS2000 doesn't let you use the "full" screen real-estate either. It could do 16-divisions, instead of "just" 14. All that "wasted" space.QuoteI've never had a problem with any of them. Seriously, these are not the things to be asking someone else about. If they botheryou, then that helps determine your decision. None of them would be a factor for me, but that's just me.I'd be a lot more interested in the fact that the DS2000 can decode CAN, and the 1000Z can't. Or that the 1000Z can handle SPI properly, and the 2000 can't. Or that segmented acquisition on both will perform a pile of captures over time, but the DS2000 will tell you when each occurred, yet the 1000Z will not. Or that having 4-chans on the 1000Z will let you easily examine signal situations where you'll be in the dark with the DS2000 (or constantly moving probes around to peek at 2-at-a-time). Or the DS2000 will trigger on HDTV signals, while the 1000Z won't (even though it claims it does; aka, it considers 480P = "HDTV").

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 01:59:42 am
content: You can get whiplash here trying to decide between the Rigol DS1000Z and the Rigol DS2000 series.You mentioned you would be inclined to go to $1500 for a scope. It turns out that $1500 puts you above what you need for either the 1000 or the 2000 series but maybe not too far below the Rigol DS4000 series, which would give you everything you get with the 2000 but with 4 channels.Another idea, just saying, is an Agilent 2000 series with 4 channels. In the link below the Agilent DSOX2014A is being sold for $1916. It will give you a growth path to more bandwidth (they sell bandwidth upgrades). The Agilent line might cost somewhat more when purchasing options but it's worth a look-see if nothing else to make sure it's not for you before you make your purchase. There are a ton of happy Rigol owners here (me included) but Agilent makes excellent equipment also.http://www.testequity.com/products/3675/http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS4014.html

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 02:07:25 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on February 02, 2014, 01:59:42 amIs it just me, or is it weird that such a scope only has 100kpts memory and to get just 1Mpts costs $200 more?I could perhaps understand if the $200 option was giving in the region of 10Mpts or more. Alas.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 02:41:41 am
content: Quote from: 8086 on February 02, 2014, 02:07:25 amYep, the pricing looks a little weird - it probably reflects pricing that made sense when the product was introduced. I think it's mostly a matter of seeing competitors leapfrogging one another in various areas. It seems that the current Agilent pricing indicates they are feeling some price/performance pressure from somewhere - probably from Rigol, and possibly from elsewhere. The Agilent 2000 series is feeling the Rigol 2000 (and 1000) series below and the Rigol 4000 series above. Agilent is probably also looking to find their pricing balance with their 3000 series relative to Rigol, especially vs the Rigol MSO4000. Agilent is hanging on reasonably well with the 3000 in part because of their 1 million waveforms per second. I think it's fair to say that the next generation of scopes will see Agilent bring more memory and Rigol more waveforms per second. In the meantime each user has the benefit of choices based on their specific needs.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 05:06:28 am
content: I would try and snag a 4 channel Agilent on the Agilent used store, but otherwise, the DS1000Z is a pretty good choice. I have done a few videos on it, and it is a very solid scope for the price. I will link the first one down below.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:35:25 am
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 11:53:38 pmI have a DS1074Z-S. And I have to warn you, while I am quite pleased with the scope part of it, the signal gen a little less so. It may still be a good choice if you want to postpone buying a real signal gen, but do not assume you'll be pleased about that part for long.I used to (still do) have a self-build gen based on an ancient schematic from Dutch Electuur magazin. It went only up to 100KHz, for the tinkering I do it was not bad, but it is a self build unsightly thing. When I replaced my analog CRO with the DS1000Z I figured to go for the one with a 'real' signal gen, arbitrary on top of that.Well, nice about it is that you do not have to carry a 2nd device if you haul stuff around. And that it was only 150 or so extra. But that's about it, my biggest disappointments/annoyances:- It does not have sweep.- It has digital control, but there is no numeric input. All numeric input is via the tiny generic rotary button. Its a big annoyance to change frequencies or amplitudes. I do not believe you can make presets to easily select either.- While integrated, there is no real link to the scope part. If you want to display or trigger on the signal, you'll have to connect via the outside.- Vpp is a little bit meager. 5V for high impedance, 2.5V for 50 Ohm. I did not run into this as a limitation yet, but it is a little low.- BNC sockets are not easily placed on the back. Very minor annoyance of course.Its not all bad. It does work, has a much greater range then the old self-build one, and probably a greater precision. And it was only a few bucks extra. I am in two minds about it. Maybe I would even buy the option again if I had to remake the decision.You could even argue to still buy the scope with -S signal gen option, even if you buy a separate signal gen a few months later, so that the DS1000Z can still be useful as your "portable platform" when you buy a top end scope later in your career. Just don't expect a comfortable way to set it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:42:48 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on February 02, 2014, 02:41:41 amWhen the Agilent X series was released it took about 2 years before anyone else could touch them in the value for money stakes. Not surprising because Agilent really kept it a huge secret, and only when it came out did the competitors start their 18 month or so design cycle to catch up.The problem now is that Agilent bet big on the ASIC, and now they are stuck with the 4M memory inside the ASIC, whilst the competitors are offering 10+ times that.QuoteYep, most of it from Rigol, Agilent regret having helped them out now...

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:50:10 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 02, 2014, 07:35:25 amI'll have to think about that then. Where did you get your unit? Did you get it imported? With the import taxes it does not seem to me to be a lot cheaper, plus you have no warranty. It looks like I'll have to get it in a european webshop. I know some good electronics stores around holland but none have a decent selection of scopes. I'm a bit uneasy about buying this from a webshop because if I ever have to invoke warranty, it's a pain to send it back. I like physical stores more.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:51:39 am
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 01, 2014, 01:10:27 pmI believe these are rebadged rigol.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:56:24 am
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 02, 2014, 07:50:10 amBatronix in Germany. No complaints, I ordered at a moment they listed it as in stock and had it 2 days later.I never dealt with Batronix before, so I have no idea how they are for warranty or tech support.Since its EU there are no import taxes. And if you have a VAT number, Batronix does support sending VAT free, which is nice, not all webshops have that part of EU rules implemented.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 08:27:28 am
content: PS: I see Eleshop in NL now also has them. They did not have then when I ordered mine, otherwise I would have ordered with them.I like Eleshop, they did help me nicely once when something arrived broken. You could consider them as well. A tiny bit more expensive, but you'll help the Dutch economyYou also mentioned PSU: Eleshop also have the EEVblog reviewed Korad programmable PSU, and they specifically refer to and guarantee its the one with the problem solved as per EEVBlog remarks. I do not have that one though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 08:39:43 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on February 02, 2014, 07:51:39 amYes, they are rebadged Rigols.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 08:55:07 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on February 02, 2014, 12:26:57 amIf a new 4 channel scope is outside the budget then I'd look on the second hand market. There are many decent second hand scopes on Ebay and Rigol is not the only brand.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:55:11 pm
content: I do wonder why the scopes are so expensive. you can get a decent laptop or desktop computer for less. Is the money in the actual hardware or are the prices inflated?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 11:44:25 pm
content: Quote from: mevrom on February 02, 2014, 10:55:11 pmLaptops have the advantage of economies of scale. Oscilloscope are a specialized device with specialized parts and engineering. All of this costs money, money with can't be spread across a large number of units.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 02:06:13 am
content: Based on this and several other threads I've just about decided on going with the DS1074Z. The DS2072(A) also looks pretty interesting, but it's more expensive and only has 2 channels. The extra bandwidth + 2 GS/s is nice though. But one has to compromise somewhere.Quote from: cybermaus on February 02, 2014, 08:27:28 amYeah, I noticed this as well. They are indeed a little more expensive than Batronix. Seems there currently isn't much stock to go around. I checked availability of the DS1074Z at Batronix, Eleshop and Conrad but they all seem to be waiting for stock.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 11:30:32 am
content: Is the "5V for lower frequencies, 2.5V for higher frequencies" of the integrated function generator of the Z-S version going to be a significant obstacle? Could always amplify, for example with opamps, correct?

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 12:25:35 pm
content: Actually, its 5V for high impedance, 2.5V for low-impedance (50 ohm) loads, not frequency, sorry.I did not run into it as an obstacle yet, because at the moment I am mostly working with 1Vpp signals.And yes, a simple 1:2 opamp would solve that. At lower frequencies, at higher frequencies the opamp may need to be selected on its specs a bit more carefully. I believe typical LM358 is 1MHz at x1 gainSo its a minor thing, just one to be aware of as most other signal generators can do 10Vpp or even 20Vpp.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 02:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2014, 10:30:21 pmDave has the flu again, or something. Maybe heat stroke.

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 06:12:10 pm
content: Thank you all for the advice and input. Scope is on its way now. Looking forward to playing around it!Also got the power supply mentioned earlier.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 06:27:05 pm
content: So, just out of interest: Conrad, Batronix or Eleshop? Expected waiting time?

author: mevrom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 07:29:23 pm
content: The power supply is from eleshop because thats the only place that they have those, and they seem really good value for the money.The scope is from conrad, they had only one left and only the model with the function generator. I was worried because of what you said about them so I called them and asked about the availability and they said they had one left for sure. After I purchased it, their website said that they didn't have any anymore, so I guess their supply indication is pretty reliable. Conrad says it'll be here within 4 business days.