good choice for first oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2011, 09:58:57 am
content: HelloI am a student,at university and am looking for a oscilloscope around the $300-$450, Would you be able to recommended any good scopes.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RIGOL-DS-1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-DS1052E-50MHz-2ch-/330519999733?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4cf486f4f5is anything like that good?thanks Antony

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2011, 10:36:45 am
content: Watch some of the eevblog episodes on that scope and find out

author: bearman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2011, 08:51:42 pm
content: I bought the Rigol DS 1052E about 6 months ago. It is plenty of O-scope for the money. Not sure where you live but make sure you buy one from a local supplier so you can get a local warranty. I have read bad things about some folks buying from China providers that don't provide good warranty support.I got mine from Tequipment with free shipping for $399.00 USD here in the USA.You might want to get an analog unit for starters. I still like my 20 something year old analog O-scope for some apps. The old CRT traces are like looking at a campfire. They are more comforting than the digitized signals on a DSO screen.I use the DSO mostly for apps where I want to capture and save diplays for future reference and detail evaluation.B

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 12:12:42 am
content: I agree about the analog 'scope.I feel too many people get hung up on the "bells & whistles" on modern digital 'scopes,& never learn the basics of what an Oscilloscope is about!It isn't a DMM.or a source of pretty graphs for your PC.It is a uniquely versatile instrument for testing,fault finding experimentation etc.You don't need readouts to determine things like frequency,risetime,signal amplitude,read the graticule,& figure 'em out in your head--that's where the EE resides---not in your Rigol ( or your PC or Mac,for that matter)!The more you have to think about things,the better the understanding you end up with.A good analog 'scope is not a simple instrument,by any stretch of the imagination,& you will find yourself using it in many ways you never expected.Once you've learned how versatile a 'scope can be,if you then get a digital,you will be able to push the thing to its limits,rather than accepting whatever compromises the "auto" button provides.Having had my rant,I must admit I don't have a digital 'scope,but from everything I've read on EEV Blog,the Rigol sounds like the way to go!VK6ZGO

author: sub
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 07:40:26 am
content: The extra memory depth of a digital scope can be pretty useful for digital work, though---as long as you don't get into the habit of using the auto button they don't do too much damage. The ability to take screenshots is nice as well.I have the Rigol DS1052E and am quite happy with it. Since you're in Australia, you probably want to buy locally---Emona sell it for $440 with a three-year warranty (though I can't find that bit on the site).

author: shadewind
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 09:16:29 am
content: The biggest advantage of a DSO is the single shot capability, something which is invaluable, at least to me. I wouldn't worry about the Auto button on a DSO. Saying "learn how to do it manually" is enough for any adult, we're not talking about raisin children here ("you can have one when you're older and have learned responsibility"). Buying an analog oscilloscope when what he probably wants in the end seems a bit like a waste of money even though analog oscilloscopes are good to have around.Regarding the Rigol, it seems to me like it is _the_ hobbyist/low end scope. It seems to be what is recommended pretty much everywhere. I have one and I like it very much (though, admittedly, I don't have much to compare it with except old Tek scopes from university which certainly beats on interface and features at least). The interface is easy to understand an it has all the features I need although higher bandwidth is always nice, of course. The build quality seems excellent though I haven't drop tested it of courseIn the interest of full disclosure, I'm one of those "young whippersnappers" (as Dave would put it) who has never owned an analog oscilloscope but I still never use the auto button. The auo button simply doesn't give you what you want most of the time. Learning how to operate scales and positions is something you can learn in quickly anyway, it's very simple.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 11:11:35 am
content: my two cents...if you're studing analog or high frequencies dont buy a digital scope or at least a very expensive one ...if you're studing slow analog electronics, it would be ok for the rigolif you're studing digital electronics with microcontrolers, better buy a small logic analyzer like the logic snifferat the end, better buy a used analog-digital "combo" scope like hameg did (or fluke)you will see many more things than on a pure digital one...and you will eventually pay less than the rigolfor microtontrolers: try to see and more interpret i2c signals on the rigol... good luck !

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 01:03:50 pm
content: Thanks so much, that's quite allot to think about.I don't think I will ever uses the auto set button, on of my lectures went crazy cues he saw a student use one.At uni I am doing.>electronics>logic /micros> electrical eg power supply designsa lot of the times they need screen caps of the O-scopeI think I will need a scope as well as logic analyzer.Looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of research.I found a few good Australian websites, that stock scopes.Would it be better to get separate O-scope and logic analyzer

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 01:11:18 pm
content: Quote from: shadewind on October 14, 2011, 09:16:29 amFair comment!In turn,I'm an OF who has never owned a digital oscilloscope.I have used some of the earlier Tek & HP ones,& was sorely disappointed by their poor performance at the time.Obviously the performance has improved radically since then!I usually use oscilloscope to fault find in a piece of equipment ,signal,dc supplies & all,with the DMM only occasionally being necessary,An analog 'scope in "free run" mode & dc coupled is very useful to do this,as you can check various points through the equipment,without needing an extremely accurate indication,just--Is what's supposed to be there present? Is something present that shouldn't be?If you find,say a hum signal on your dc,you can then trigger on it to check it more closely.On the digital'scopes I've used,there doesn't seem to be an equivalent to "free -running" an analog."Auto" doesn't hack it!I'm not saying,you can't use a digital to trace faults,it's just that to me,it's clunkier!My feeling is that using a digital is much more structured,as you tend to look at signals you already know the characteristics of,rather than use the more "free wheeling" method that is common with a analog.Perhaps for EEs this fits their requirements just as well,or better.VK6ZGO

author: shadewind
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 01:37:40 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on October 14, 2011, 01:11:18 pmI believe it all comes down to what "feels right" in these situations. I'm a software guy so I tend to enjoy working with digital equipment, that's what feels at home to me.Regarding "free run" mode, I'm not sure what that really means, though. There is an "Auto" trigger mode (not to be confused with the auto button!) which just draws arbitrarily draws the waveform if it cannot find a triggering signal (seems like what you're describing) and then there's the "Normal" trigger mode which doesn't update the waveform unless there's a trigger. Finally, there's also a "Manual" triggering mode which doesn't update the waveform unless you explicitly press the "Run/Stop" button. If you do, it waits for the trigger and then retains the waveform until the next time you press the button. That's what you'd want to use if you want to capture a single shot signal. "Auto" mode is what I normally use. That way, if there's no triggering, I can at least see what is going on somewhat, then I can adjust the trigger level if I want to see more details.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2011, 06:15:13 pm
content: Quote from: aparlett on October 14, 2011, 01:03:50 pmYou should also consider the Owon SDS 7102 (or 8102). Big LCD screen, highest record length of all affordable scopes (true 10Msamples per channel).https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4412.0Quote from: aparlett on October 14, 2011, 01:03:50 pmI made the same consideration and decided it was much cheaper and better to get an affordable 2ch scope (the Owon 8102 in my case) and a separate USB logic analyzer. Two interesting logic analyzers to look into could be theOpen Logic Sniffer(cheap and open, but not very robust) and theZeroPlus LogicCube(lots of free protocol analyzers, 32k version can be patched into 128k version).https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2011, 01:15:51 am
content: I believe it all comes down to what "feels right" in these situations. I'm a software guy so I tend to enjoy working with digital equipment, that's what feels at home to me.Regarding "free run" mode, I'm not sure what that really means, though. There is an "Auto" trigger mode (not to be confused with the auto button!) which just arbitrarily draws the waveform if it cannot find a triggering signal (seems like what you're describing) and then there's the "Normal" trigger mode which doesn't update the waveform unless there's a trigger. Finally, there's also a "Manual" triggering mode which doesn't update the waveform unless you explicitly press the "Run/Stop" button. If you do, it waits for the trigger and then retains the waveform until the next time you press the button. That's what you'd want to use if you want to capture a single shot signal. "Auto" mode is what I normally use. That way, if there's no triggering, I can at least see what is going on somewhat, then I can adjust the trigger level if I want to see more details.That sounds almost exactly the same. I used the slang term "free run", instead of "Auto" to avoid confusion.This function works on an analog as follows:-With the 'scope in "Auto" trigger,& no input,it will display a line on the screen,scanning at whatever time/cm rate is set.If the 'scope is dc coupled,you can set the vertical scale to a convenient setting & look at dc voltages in this condition.If you apply an ac (or varying dc) signal,to the input,you will see it drifting across the screen.If the time/cm is not too long or short,adjusting the trigger level will give a stable display .If you now switch to "Normal",the 'scope will stay triggered,but if you remove the signal,the screen will go blank.The early digitals did not have any equivalent to the "Auto " trigger mode.It seems that this has been addressed.VK6ZGO

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2011, 03:43:06 am
content: IMO, there is no contest these days at all.If you can only have ONE scope, it has to be a real-time digital storage type with deep memory (a.k.a Rigol DS1052E).As shadewind said, single shot capture capability is the kick-arse advantage over an analog scope (or an older DSO that uses repetitive sampling).Being able to probe something and them simply hit STOP and be able to inspect the waveform on the screen in invaluable.Then of source you can capture pre and post trigger data, so you can see whatcausedsomething to happen.When you throw in the advantage of the small size of the modern low end DSO's like the Rigol, it's a no-brainer decision, get one.As for the difference between the Rigol and others like OWON, Tekway, or whoever, there isn't much in it these days.Rigol just hit the price point before everyone else, and were "legitimised" by being rebadged by Agilent, so they gained the lions share of the market. And of course they are decent quality for the price.By all means though, get an analog to start off with and it makes is useful companion scope to the DSO. In fact, I'd recommend that if you have the space.Dave.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2011, 10:31:47 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 15, 2011, 03:43:06 amWell the Owon SDS line has a much larger display with higher resolution and a ten times larger record length even under best conditions for the Rigol. If the price is the limit, the Rigol is still the best choice in the 350€ range if you can live with 50MHz or are willing to risk the hack, but for about 100€ more, you get a true 100MHz SDS7102. The only thing that really sucks about the Owon is the customer support. I.e. they don't offer free firmware downloads but you have to contact them directly to get a bugfixed firmware (and it's not like they react instantly). And yeah, the menu buttons and the multi-purpose rotary knob feel a little cheap. Apart from that it's a great little scope.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 04:29:37 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 14, 2011, 06:15:13 pmYeah thanks I have looked at the open logic sniffer and it looks quite good,Also I found a package on farnellhttp://au.element14.com/tenma/tenma-bench-kit-8/psu-fn-generator-dmm-scope/dp/190356301it looks ok what do you guys think.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 06:26:03 am
content: I have decided to bump up my max spend to around 1000?looking at element they have 10% off any suggestions would be great, saw a few brandsGW INSTEKLECROYTEKTRONIXTENMAthanks

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 06:32:19 am
content: Quote from: aparlett on October 16, 2011, 04:29:37 amUnless you've done your research on each item, and that's what you want, better value can be had elsewhere.For example, for the same price you could buy:Rigol DS1052 $440 (Emona)Agilent U1242B meter $260 (http://triosmartcal.com.au/1970-agilent-u1242b-handheld-digital-multimeter-4-digit.html)Atten Power Supply APS3003S-3D $220 (http://triosmartcal.com.au/dc-bench-supplies/2432-atten-aps3003s-3d-dual-power-supply-0-30v-3a.html)And you can squeeze in one of these for what's left:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-ATTEN-ATF20B-Signal-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-20MHZ-/320766909234?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaf329b32And those are mostly Australian prices, Australian suppliers, with GST.No contest IMO.That Tenma bench meter looks like rebadged Uni-T, in which case I've used one, and they are awful.Dave.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 10:04:21 am
content: While this gets a little offtopic, I think the ATTEN ATF20B is pretty crappy. I.e. the USB port is obviously a fake, the signal amplitude depends on the frequency and the max. frequency on the signal type. All in all it pretends to be something that it isn't (namely a higher class arbitrary generator like the Agilent 33521A/33522A).If to select a low cost chinese signal generator, I'd suggest at least a Rigol DG1021/1022, even though it also has its quirks. At least this has some arbitrary functionality, although it kinda sucks.I recently stumbled over another Chinese generator called Siglent SDG1020, which seems to have a 16k arbitrary function, which would be somewhat usable. On the paper, it sounds pretty neat, yet it's a bit too cheap for the functionality it offers, so there's probably a catch somewhere:http://www.siglent.com/en/product_show.asp?articleid=156One thing I found when quickly browsing through the datasheet is that the output amplitude seems to be limiteed to 5Vpp (50Ohm) for frequencies >10MHz.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 11:26:53 am
content: thanks there's so much to take in,Its a big risk chucking money on cheap brands that may not work.What are some well know brands i could look into?theses are what im looking at atm (first two 10% off price)GW INSTEK - GDS-1102 - OSCILLOSCOPE, DSO, 100MHZ, COLOURhttp://au.element14.com/gw-instek/gds-1102/oscilloscope-dso-100mhz-colour/dp/1563800LECROY - WAVEACE 112 - OSCILLOSCOPE, 100MHZ, 2-CH, 4KPTS/CHhttp://au.element14.com/lecroy/waveace-112/oscilloscope-100mhz-2-ch-4kpts/dp/163330801TEKTRONIX - TDS1002C-EDU - OSCILLOSCOPE, 60MHZ, 2 CH, 1GS/Shttp://au.element14.com/tektronix/tds1002c-edu/oscilloscope-60mhz-2-ch-1gs-s/dp/187749801I have spent $1000 on a video card so spending more on an O-scope that is going to last way more than a few years is worth it i guess :-)

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 12:03:01 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 16, 2011, 10:04:21 amYou basically stumbled over the same crap. Siglent is just an other name Atten uses. Rumor is in the past Atten had a bit of legal trouble with Rigol over some stuff they copied, so the founded another Brand, Siglent, rebadged, and continued selling the stuff under question. Since then Siglent is around. This SDG1020 might have a working USB port, and has another front panel, which would distinguish it from the ATF20B, but otherwise it should come from the same source. And without having seen the USB port working, I would not bet the farm on it.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 12:20:33 pm
content: To get even close to the technical data (sample frequency, record length) of an Owon SDS7102/8102 , you need to pay at least 3x the price to get a real good brand like Agilent and Hameg. Every "brand" scope below this is usually rebranded China stuff (e.g. the low end LeCroys etc.) and not worth paying extra money for.If you can live with 70MHz and rather small record length (100k), the Agilent X2000 series starts around 1000€ for 2ch@70MHz for the DSOX2002A, which can be extended to an MSO (with additional logic probe).A better choice IMHO would be a Hameg HMO series which starts around 1300€ (including VAT) for the 2ch@70MHz HMO722. It has a 2M record length and can be extended with an 8ch logic probe. You also get SPI decoding for free, which is somewhat nice (also a cheap USB LA can do this as well).What I personally dislike about the Agilents is the fact that they make you pay for every little feature. E.g. in the job we have ~8000€ DSOs from Agilent which have a crappy record length and a ridiculously bad duty cycle/frequency measurement mainly because each and every feature in this scopes is crippled and they want you to pay extra money just to get the functionality that other scopes in this class offer for free.Personally I struggled whether to spend the extra money for e.g. an HMO722 or HMO1022 (or even better, a 4ch HMO724 or 1024). Then again I decided that for myprivateprojects, the Owon 8102 would suffice, plus it has the nice hires screen and the much larger full speed record length. For the job, I would not go below an Agilent DSOX3000 (not 2000!) or an HMO2024.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 12:25:04 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 16, 2011, 06:32:19 amthanks Davethe Agilent U1242B meter looks awesome, I will be getting one in a week or two :-PNow I need to chooses a scope, I came up with theses three what are your thoughts?I think its better if i invest some money in something a bit better qualityGW INSTEK - GDS-1102 - OSCILLOSCOPE, DSO, 100MHZ, COLOURhttp://au.element14.com/gw-instek/gds-1102/oscilloscope-dso-100mhz-colour/dp/1563800LECROY - WAVEACE 112 - OSCILLOSCOPE, 100MHZ, 2-CH, 4KPTS/CHhttp://au.element14.com/lecroy/waveace-112/oscilloscope-100mhz-2-ch-4kpts/dp/163330801TEKTRONIX - TDS1002C-EDU - OSCILLOSCOPE, 60MHZ, 2 CH, 1GS/Shttp://au.element14.com/tektronix/tds1002c-edu/oscilloscope-60mhz-2-ch-1gs-s/dp/187749801and thanks for your Blogs they are awesome I have picked up so much, stuff that they simply forget to tell us in class.thanks Antony

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 12:29:21 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on October 16, 2011, 12:03:01 pmYeah, I kinda assumed there was a catch. At least the Sigilent claims that the USB port is working while the Atten doesn't even do that. Anyway, probably everything below a Rigol DG2041 is pretty much crap and if you send that much money, you could get a decent Agilent 33521A/33522A.Hard to understand that there are some usable low end scopes, but the cheap signal generators are all crap.

author: sub
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 12:53:13 pm
content: QuoteThe Lecroy/Tek have terrible memory depth. Going from a Rigol to an older version of that Tek at uni, every twist of the timebase knob was met with a tear of disappointment. The Lecroy you get only 250MSPS if you use all channels, according to the datasheet.If you're going to spend $1k+ on the scope, you might as get the $1400 Agilent which seems to be all the rage nowdays (I haven't tried one myself).Failing that, I'd suggest the Rigol, which I have on my desk now and have been reasonably happy with.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 01:11:56 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 16, 2011, 10:04:21 amNot sure if I'd consider that low cost. What about the few MHz DDS generators without arb features? They are quite useful for most work, and short of any requirements for higher bandwidth, arbitrary waveforms or computer control, this is what I'd recommend to a beginner. I think there's a GW-Instek model (SFG-1003?) that's got some positive reviews on this forum.Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 16, 2011, 12:29:21 pmA scope is much more essential than an arbitrary waveform generator in my opinion, so I guess the market is much larger. There are some quite usable function generators in my opinion.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 01:22:01 pm
content: Quote from: aparlett on October 16, 2011, 12:25:04 pmIt's an older model, but the price point is really nice.If you get anything from TrioSmartCal or Emona, tell'em I sent you, they know me and the blog and might do you an ever better deal. Worth asking anywayQuoteForget them all, ancient technology by modern scope standards, pathetic sample memory depth.If you are spending serious money then you want a big deep sample memory. After all, you can 1M on the Rigol for $400.The Instek is the older model, newer one is the 1102A that has 2M memory and 1GS/shttp://www.emona.com.au/catalogue.asp?cat=1(select the price list)Same price as the older model at Farnell(Farnell are almost always more expensive than the local reps)Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 01:29:51 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 16, 2011, 01:11:56 pmYes, looks like a good value DDS based unit.Oz list price is $245 from Emona.Dave.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 01:58:50 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 16, 2011, 01:11:56 pmOk thanks that looks like a good choice for my function-gen.that and the multimeter thats two down.Quote from: EEVblog on October 16, 2011, 01:22:01 pmI think I might go with that one.I was also looking at the Agilent DSOX2002A 2 Channel 70MHz Oscilloscopehttp://triosmartcal.com.au/2231-agilent-dsox2004a-4-channel-70mhz-oscilloscope.htmlbut that only has a 100k memory depth, but on the other hand its has lot of other features.never thought setting up a home lab was going to be so much work.Antony

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 03:36:41 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 15, 2011, 10:31:47 amOwon FW patch for 2..1.1 version SDS7102. Local authorized Owon dealer is good place to ask update. Everyone have buy it from some place. Very simple, ask seller. And more simple, before buy, look littlebit wherefrom buy. It is not so bad if buyer also use his brains when select wherefrom buy.Owon customer support and customer care is one of most good what I know. Always nearly immediate answer and you can fax, email, phone call etc.There is no any reason for public open dowload place for FW updates or repair patches.Example aghp (Owon seller in Finland) have share immediately this FW patch to his customers after patch was available. There are sellers and sellers. Buy from grey ebay seller who sell teddybears and oscilloscopes and parfumes... you really think it is clever to buy. Then waiting customer care.Owon (Lilliput group) mainstream is of course so that Owon give all support and care to resellers and resellers need give to it end users. Of course also Owon try kindly help single end users but everyone understand that it is impossible to care every single end user just as he is only people in world.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 03:40:33 pm
content: Be aware regarding the Agilent that a lot of the features will cost you extra money. This is exactly what I hate about Agilent.Besides, IMHO the Hameg HMO series with 2M sample points is in nearly every way (except for waveforms per second) superior to the DSOX2000 series. Especially the 100k record length are underwhelming to say the least.Then again, I'd still advise you to watch the great video review of the Owon SDS linked to above. It mentions about everything worth mentioning. If you don't want to use the scope on a professional base and/or each and every day, I'm not sure if it's worth to spend >=1000k if half of it would satisfy most if not all of your hobbyist needs. And did I mention that the Owon has full speed 10M record length for each channel? This is the magnitude that you usually would only expect from LeCroys etc. in the >10k€ league.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2011, 04:03:57 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on October 16, 2011, 03:36:41 pmSorry, pretty offtopic, this belongs to the Owon thread, so I'll answer there.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2011, 11:39:21 am
content: I spoke to some local dealers and they said some companies offer students rebates if they buy there scopes :-P

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2011, 07:51:38 pm
content: Hello to all,I am newbie (located in Germany) in this forum, but have some experience in various electronics stuff (shortwave ham radio stuff, microcomputers, audio stuff). Stopped playing with those things for about 20 years - discovered Dave's blog and due to some other reasons I decided to start again with electronics.Just bought some equipment, but also need a Scope. Read all the coments i could found concerning scopes (this forum and several other forums) but cannot decide wich one to buy.I am sure that the Rigol DS1052E/DS1102E will be good enough to help me while starting new with electronics. But is it good enough to serve me for the next 5 or maybe 10 years?? Working with ham radio circuits (frequencies up to 50 MHz) in the near future, maybe it would be better to get a scope with more bandwith - found that GW Instek scope GDS1152A-U wich costs about 2 times more than the Rigol DS1102E but bandwith is 150 MHz. There is not much information conc these GW Instek scopes on the net.So I cannot decide Rigol wich one to buy DS1052E, DS1102E or GW Instek GDS1152A-U ... is that GW Instek worth the extra money?Really would appreciate your comments.Thank's a lot and hope my english ist not toooooo bad...Cheers,Ronald

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2011, 09:53:02 pm
content: Dunno if it makes sense to plan 5 or even ten years ahead regarding a low cost DSO. The product category of simple FPGA based digital storage scopes is pretty new and there is a lot of development to be expected in the next few years. Probably whatever you buy now will look pretty lame and basic in 5 years, especially regarding memory size etc.Probably it makes more sense to buy something you need now and save some money to buy something new in 5 years or so.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2011, 12:36:02 pm
content: call and ask the manufacturers, alot of them I have been told give student discounts, cues they want you to uses there products in the feature as a professional

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2011, 07:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 17, 2011, 09:53:02 pmDidn't have that in my mind. Still have to learn a lot concerning the "new stuff". Starting again with electronics after 20 years I am still thinking the "old fashioned analog" way.Looking for that low frequency (<= 50 MHz) stuff I wanna work with, a decent scope will serve you a really long time. Thinking about boise/ripple measurement (psu's), audio stuff, shortwave ham stuff the requirements will not really change very much.Reading all the comments from many users, I think the Rigol DS1052E/1102E is the right way to start ... a lot of bang for buck, a lot of information by many satisfied and eperienced users. And not to forget - Dave claimed that the quality of this scope is absolutely acceptable. Maybe it will really be the best choice for the "my first scope" buy.I would buy immediately, but there is only one question left:Is the bandwith of 100 MHz good enough to observe the waveform of signals up to 30 MHz - 50 MHz (mainly sinus)? Or should I spent more money in that GW Instek scope with 150 MHz bandwith.Best regards from an crazy german guyRonald(lucky to find this great blog & forum ... love it...)

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2011, 08:09:40 pm
content: Quote from: DonRon on October 18, 2011, 07:49:07 pmThe Rigol DS1052E hacked to 100MHz is more than enough to do work up to and beyond 100Mhz frequency content. The DS1052E left at stock bandwidth more than adequate for 30-50MHz. There are better scopes but at higher prices. It is still hard to beat the bang for the buck the Rigol gives you.If I were buying a low end scope again I might consider the Owon SDS7102 except the screen colours would drive me mad. I like the idea of battery power for it too. But the Owon costs quite a bit more percentage wise.

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2011, 08:31:14 pm
content: Hi Lightages!Thank's for your statement. Read several papers concerning scopes (Textronix scope primer, Agilent application notes) and those guys claim, that the scope's bandwith should be 5 times more than the highest frequency you want to measure (should be able to see the fifth harmonics ... escpecially if u wanna look for square wave signals).Alsohad a look for the Owon scopes ... seems to be very interesting first. But there are some statements of guys who tested the Owon and they found some remarkable firmware bugs. Also no really positive comments concerning Owon's support.More and more ... I think getting the Rigol DS1052E ... or even the Rigol DS1102E for a good price will be a superb option. (AND ... one should never forget the unpayable impact of an active community of users.)CheersRonald

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2011, 09:47:26 pm
content: A 100MHz scope is good for signals with a bandwidth of <= 100MHz as long as you can tolerate 30% error in amplitude accuracy (-3dB). Note that I mention a signal with 100MHz bandwidth, not a fundamental frequency (repetition rate) of 100MHz. You need much more bandwidth for the latter, 3-5x is often used as rule-of-thumb for qualitative measurements. Harmonic distortion (eg. square wave instead of sine) will show up as harmonics of the fundamental frequency, so the important information that distinguishes a 100MHz square wave from a 100MHz sine would be at 300MHz and 500MHz (perfect square waves consist of just odd harmonics).See the screenshots inthis postfor an example how a 100MHz square wave almost becomes a sine with a 100MHz scope. The 100MHz scope wouldn't tell you anything meaningful about the shape of the 100MHz signal, and even the 500MHz scope is not ideal either (measured rise time is very close to the rise time of the scope).

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2011, 10:49:54 pm
content: Of course I did say "frequency content". A square wave of 100MHz contains beyond 1GHz content. As Donron asked for sine waves in the range of 30-50MHz then even the stock DS1052E will be sufficient given that the bandwidth roll off is considered. Without a doubt, the DS1052E modified for 100MHz would be perfect for his maximum frequency content requirement.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2011, 01:13:04 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 18, 2011, 10:49:54 pmAs long as the DS1052E can be modified for 100MHz. Has anyone managed to downgrade from the latest firmware yet so that you can do the conversion?There is always the hardware mod instead, but you don't get the faster timebase.Anyway, the DS1052E is still a very good 50Mhz scope.Richard.

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2011, 06:48:49 pm
content: Thank's a lot guys!That's exactely what I wanna know. Helped me to make my decision - so at the end of the day I will buy the Rigol. I am sure now it will do the job and - as Oxdeadbeef stated - save some and buy something new and more powerful in the future when it is necessary.Even if I want to measure sinusoidal signals most of the time it is really good to knew where the limitations are concerning different applications. Helps to prevent possible errors in the future.Also you inspired me to read the interesting application notes (Tektronixs and Agilent) once again more accurate.So - thank's again guys for your support,Ronald

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2011, 11:29:48 am
content: After speaking two quite a few people and getting prices.I am 80% sure I'm going to get theHAMEG http://www.hameg.com/613.0.htmlaround $2000whats every one else s opinion on my choice?Could I be getting something better for around the same price?I was looking at the Agilent and they have a lot higher waveforms update per second.would i be better off going with one of themthanks Antony

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2011, 03:56:15 pm
content: I fear that nobody here ever really used one of the new HMO scopes. Unfortunately, I haven't either.So the following statements are based on other people's reviews, technical data etc. It is also based a little on the (not so good) experience I have with the 8k€ Agilent scopes in the job.I'd say the only big advantage of the Agilent DSOX line is the waveforms update rate:2000wfs/s for the Hameg, 50000wfs/s for the DSOX2000, 100000Wfs/s for the DSOX3000If you need that, there's not much of an alternative to the DSOX line in that price range. In nearly every other aspect, the HMO1024 is superior to a DSOX2014A, especially regarding the record length. Indeed, feature wise the HMO line is better comparable to the DSOX3000 line, which however is much more expensive.Also keep in mind that lots of the features that Agilent advertises and that Dave praises in his review are just options which have to be paid for. When buying the options for the Agilent that the HMO already has, the price difference becomes even more impressive.I could offer a comparison obviously made by a Hameg employee which seems to be rather objective though. Problem is that it's GermanMaybe you can still make sense of some of the tables.http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/113595/mikrocontrollernet_Antworten_HAMEG.pdfAs a side note: in the beginning, you wanted to buy a <$500 2ch scope, now we're in the 2k$ 4ch range. This is a lot of money for hobby projects and for a 1st scope. Honestly I just went through the same decision and really toyed with the idea of buying an HMO1024 because anything below that has that scent of being a compromise and/or B-stock.In the end, I decided that it was crazy to fling away so much money for a technical toy that I will only use now and then. Also I came to the conclusion that 2ch are indeed sufficient, although 4ch would be cooler of course. Then again, in most cases were I use 4ch in the job, I'd better use a logic analyzer. Especially for my private stuff, the main purpose of a 4ch setup would have been SPI bus and things like that and therefore I bought an Open Logic Sniffer (and as I was in a shopping frenzy, also a ZeroPlus LAP-C 16032 which I patched into a 16128).Sure, it's your money after all and I understand your considerations, but maybe you should have a 2nd look at an Owon 7102 or at the Rigol if you like and try to convince your inner Geek that a basic Chinese scope is really enough to look at a signal now and then. If you need to use it on a daily basis to get your work done, this is a different thing of course.

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2011, 05:06:10 am
content: Yeah I think that's one thing that has been putting me away from the cheaper scopes. I'm going to be keeping the scope for at least 3 year, and using it fairly often.Like i have checked $1000 on a video card or ram before so it kinda feels like I'm cheating not putting in something substantial for a scope.But saying that I dont think i need to get an Agilent at the time something like the HAMEGS should do me fine fora few years to come.I will do a bit more research, and then hopefully order my scope in a weekthanks for you help and advice

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2011, 03:24:27 pm
content: Well, just in case you really get the Hameg, I guess some people here would be interested in a mini-review. Nothing spectacular, just a few words about how you can work with it and if it has any annoying quirks.

author: opticpow
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2012, 12:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: aparlett on October 22, 2011, 11:29:48 amSo, did you get it?

author: Wim_L
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2012, 01:05:21 pm
content: There are other factors involved too. Physical size of the scope, for example. While I like analog scopes for analog measurements (superior image quality!), it cannot be denied that having a small, compact scope that will fit in small spots and will make no attempts to crush devices of less robust construction you put it on, has certain advantages too! Sometimes, those advantages make it worth it to compromise on image quality. Another reason to take a small, lightweight DSO might be if you're a student in a small room where every bit of space counts.

author: vaughnburrows
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2012, 04:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 23, 2011, 03:24:27 pmHere is a nice review of a similar model it's the Hameg 2024