Soldering Station for <200€ (EU) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 06:07:22 pm
content: Hi guysi need some advicei'm looking for Soldering StationI had ERSA i-CON Nano for few days but i sendt it back becouse it was broken or shittyhere are my requirments:ESD safe230v unit (i'll explain more later)Brand Name (something popular would be good)soldering station NOT desoldering iron or heat gunit should last at least 5yearsi have 180€ on Hand paying more than 200€ can be Problem i Need Station and some tipsi have seen on German Ebay Hakko fx888D but the onl Problem is that there are only 110/120v Unitsi Need something testet and not something you THINK will be goodi can't spend 400€ on JBC like Dave has but i think for 200€ i can get something good or very goodi wont buy again Ersa i-con NANO and i'm Kind of scared buying ERSA again ...and if i can get it on German Amazon it would be brillianti hate gettig things from outside EU becouse Zoll (costumers) always force me to pay that stupid 19% when i get something Little bit priceri have googled and i didn't find muchany ideas?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 06:21:32 pm
content: Would be easier if you described your problems with ersa, its a solid station.Hakko fx888 will be at least 2x worse.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 06:45:52 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 01, 2015, 06:21:32 pmOKwhat i like:it is really lightavesome iron holderyou can set every 1°C (most Irons can set 10°C)what i dont likeyou Need this stupid sd Card and Software ....and it stics outno rubber feet ....iweird iron connecter under Stationplastic...plastic....uhhwhat i think was broken:low thermal capacity in my opinionon Energy 1 (for SMD) when iron sits in holder temp was +/- 5°C and when i started to solder it was +/- 20°Cthe iron itself (PLASTIC) Thing what you hold...was hot i couldn't hold it Long it was to hot for memy 5€ iron has tip 350-400° and the plastic is cold like it should ...broken or normal?

author: ThomasDK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 06:49:24 pm
content: I have had the ersa nano for a few months, and so far it has been great...Heats up in a couple of seconds, plenty of tips to choose from and great thermal capacity. Tested this by removing a couple of caps from an old computer motherboard, worked a treat.What was the problem with your nano?Edit: Just saw your postYou don't have to use the sd card (I have never had one in mine). My handle doesn't heat up, but I have heard the Pico does... Maybe you got the wrong handpiece by mistake?

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 06:54:30 pm
content: QuoteWell, how often do you operate the station?For daily work you should consider a brand name like Ersa or Weller. (No idea, what went wrong with your Ersa-unit...)Otherwise I'm happy with my XYTronic LF1600. It's under 100€ and you get severel different tips for a little budget.The performance is good as well (of course, otherwise I would't reccomend it). It heats up very rapit and you can solder (with a large chisel tip) parts with high thermal mass without any problems.I'm not sure wether or not this unit last >5 years. I got my unit since at least 5 years or there about, but use it not that often (couple hours per month), therfore 5 yearsworking timeis not a big deal.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 07:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: PSR B1257 on May 01, 2015, 06:54:30 pmhmmElectronics is my Hobby and i will solder like 1/2 h daily (like Weekends and hollydays few h a day and other days 5 min to solder a wire or connector i breakei'll just put it on my list to check it out in some time

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 07:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: ThomasDK on May 01, 2015, 06:49:24 pmi don't think so i' 99% sure it was nanomore Irons pls?i won't be happy if i buy ersa nano again and i have the same Problems againideas?

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 08:02:51 pm
content: I have a Weller WS51, which is just a bit above 200 EUR. It's a very nice, minimal and well-built device. All the old radio amateurs and electronics engineers I know own a similar Weller that's probably lasted a decade or more.Usually thermal capacity is more than enough, the one time it was struggling involved a huge, thick copper backplate screwed on with a 4mm bolt, and a solder flooded ground plane.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 08:11:10 pm
content: Quote from: Sigmoid on May 01, 2015, 08:02:51 pmi hate These cases tooQuote from: Sigmoid on May 01, 2015, 08:02:51 pmi have looked it up and i found it on german Amazon it costs 250€i'll put in on listbut i have to give it thumbs down for stand it dosen't have much funcionalitybut hey it is on Amazon

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 09:03:59 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 01, 2015, 06:45:52 pmyes, sounds like bad tip or handleyou can look at hakko 951, xytronic lf-3000, or get replacement ersa (probably better than those)Weller WS51 is nice, but its 30 year old design sold at ridiculous premium due to brand recognition and iconic fanboy status. WD1000 would be another story, but its 360 euro

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 10:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 01, 2015, 07:45:23 pmThe Nano is a top quality station, so I'd say you got a dud (or possibly a Pico; they look identical from the exterior). I'd recommend sending it in for arefund, NOT a replacement if you purchased from Amazon, as they've a nasty habit of putting returned products back on the shelf and resold as new,including defective items.You can get it here for 198EUR(incl. VAT).TheWeller WS 81orWD1002would be closer to the Ersa I-Con Nano performance wise, but based on Amazon's prices, are more expensive in Europe. Ersa actually has the edge on tip quality (Weller's tip QC has been sporadic IME).I understand the fear given your experience, but do understand, Ersa really isn't garbage.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 11:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 01, 2015, 10:51:21 pmhmm you got me thinkingi did so they did give me cash backwhen i got my Station is seemed (my english sucks) that it was used ! i was thinking it was production testing but what you said makes sense!so everybody says that ersa is really good... if i bought it from that site i would pay 205€ instead of 177€can i be sure that i get Geniue ersa and not "Kind of" broken shit like Amazon did sell me?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 11:56:26 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 01, 2015, 11:24:16 pmIt wouldn't look used from any production testing, and that would be done first before sealing it in any packaging. So when you see non-factory applied tape, you can be sure it was opened for whatever reason.Quote from: Luckymat on May 01, 2015, 11:24:16 pmAFAIK, Yes. But you can call or email Ersa and see if they're truly authorized retailers or not.FWIW, there have been other members that have bought from them before without any issues.____________________________________Another alternative, would be contact another member,TopLoser(located in the UK). He sells major brands such as Ersa, JBC, and Weller (Pace too IIRC), and at a notable discount (so you could get a lot more station for your budget, or same/similar to the i-Con Nano for less). A number of other members have purchased from him and all have been happy with their experiences.Sometimes it's demonstrators, but he tells you and makes sure it's all there if it is (or tells you exactly what is missing if not), and that it works before he ships it. Link is to his user profile above, so send him a PM, and see what he can do before buying anywhere.Definitely worth the effort.Total brain fart for not mentioning this beforehand.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 12:09:31 am
content: BTW, take a look at the following thread byJoeBean, who just bought that station fromTopLoser(shipped to CAN).Got my Ersa i-Con Vario 4!

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 09:22:12 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 01, 2015, 11:56:26 pmit had no tape on ersa bo...only on Amazon boxi may do so but it is Kind of bad idea...beouse costumers (Zoll) may Charge me and shipping can be pricy...but i think i will contact himQuote from: nanofrog on May 02, 2015, 12:09:31 amLooks pretty PRO and HQ

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 09:26:27 am
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 02, 2015, 09:22:12 amDefinitely gives me the impression it was a defective unit that had already been returned.Quote from: Luckymat on May 02, 2015, 09:22:12 amI'm under the impression that there's no customs fees between EU members.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:04:32 am
content: Did it have grounded power plug or just tiny 2 pin thing? If it was like on the picture, it was Pico, not Nano.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:20:18 am
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 01, 2015, 06:45:52 pmBecause Ersa shows you a real temperature of the tip, unlike lesser stations which do not have so good heat transfer from the heater/tight temperature control. In I-con soldering stations, temperature sensor is just about 6-7mm away from end of the tip.

author: jay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 11:44:46 am
content: I have to defend the cheap Ersa soldering stations.. I have used i-con pico for an year in hobby use. I use almost daily high end JBCs at work so I have something to compare with. I-con is far from the JBC level but considering the price it's great. The stand sucks. The first unit was dead when it arrived, but it was obviously replaced by the shop and the second unit has been trouble free. So they might have quality issues so get your iron from a reputable place with warranty. For serious use or if money is cheap for you - get a JBC.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 12:00:26 pm
content: this is in germany and looks legit (no idea of they are tho)http://www.ersa-shop.com/

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 12:26:39 pm
content: It was Nano is had normal plug on it not this shitty 2terminal oneJBC you say?I have 180€ on hand getting 200€ more will be really hard...what model you preffer ? Maybe something in ersa nano range ?If all you say ersa nano or any ersa or weller or hakko is piece of shit and i should get 400€ JBC or whatever else i will try to get that moneyBUTI have to buy some cheapie 5-10! € one to use and getting 100€ will take me like 3-5 months to get (parents should give me more cash xd)I'm not pro or so but i need qualityNow.i'm soldering through hole but i will solder smd soon and i won't buy any more iron ...JBC or ERSA or HAKKO ?

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 12:42:31 pm
content: I'm just gonna put it out there - do you NEED quality? I understand about buying something that will last, and ignore me if you do a lot (most days, hours per day) of soldering, but I solder ~3/4 days a week with a Hakko 936 clone; I do a little SMD, for which it is fine, but day-to-day through hole. It cost me £20, but it offers temp. control and decent power. Obviously, if you have to precisely control the temp, and solder low gauge wires often, then get a JBC or Metcal. I'd recommend Hakko fx-888d if you were in the USA as a middlemean, BTW.It sounds to me like you really want an Ersa or JBC or Hakko station, which is fine (believe me, I want one as well), but you have to think for a moment about practicality - if it takes you half a year to get £100 together, and have £200 on hand, then there are other things to think about. I would prefer to have a Rigol DS1054z + a Fluke DMM + Hakko clone (I don't BTW), than a quality soldering station. Why?, because that would be more practical for me, and the clone works fine. I could spend everything I have on an Agilent entry scope, or a JBC, but I don't because I prefer to have that money for when I NEED it.Think about your needs. If you are dead set on a good station, fair play, we all want different things in life. And please don't moan at me for this suggestion, it's just another way of looking at it.

author: jay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 02:25:49 pm
content: Quote from: ThomasDK on May 01, 2015, 06:49:24 pmIsn't it the same handle in both pico and nano? I have noticed that the handle heats up when the iron is not placed properly (carefully) in the stand. The tip easily touches the metal "spring" of the Pico stand, so it's heating at full power to keep the tip hot. The stand simply sucks.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 03:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: jay on May 02, 2015, 02:25:49 pmThey have the same dimensions but they are different. As well as heating elements. Nano has the same heating element as more expensive I-CON soldering stations, while pico uses cheaper one.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 04:46:30 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on May 02, 2015, 12:42:31 pmgood Point good way buti have DMM ist BM257i Need scope but i must waiti could buy 2nd DMM but i have time i also could buy PSU but i don't Need it soon (LM317 does fine!)if i bought scope i would pay 200-500 €and i my case i Need iron NOWi have lendt already 100€ becouse i did have 30 and i got 50 for easterif i saved and bought nothing else i could get 100€ every 2 months but i spend like 5-15€ on other stuff and 5-30€ on componentsi my case i Need good iron for few years and scope i will buy in some timeQuote from: jay on May 02, 2015, 02:25:49 pmhmm could be it but i liked nano stand it was not awesome but good enaugh

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 04:56:54 pm
content: I bet your point, you want to make one purchase and then not think about it again. There are two ways to build up a lab IMHO (for us on a budget anyway). First, buy great gear which will last you, SLOWLY, one at a time. Second, buy lesser quality stuff, so you have something when u need it, but run the risk of having to upgrade. I like the second way, as I love looking at gear that I could get! It will cost more in the long run, but I need a scope, DMM, soldering iron etc. NOW for projects.Besides, the clone has lasted for 1 1/2 years, and it's still going strong. It works.

author: ThomasDK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 07:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 02, 2015, 12:00:26 pmThat's where I bought mine

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 07:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 02, 2015, 12:26:39 pmwait what? Im sensing some language barrier here

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 08:33:55 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on May 02, 2015, 04:56:54 pmyou are right i want to buy once .... it saves Money (depends how you look at it)i don't want to die becouse i bought some garbage (like 5€ DMM that exploaded in my Hand while messuring 230v Mains (it was plugged correctly....anyways it's another Story..)1.5years that is good score for Fake Station !Quote from: Rasz on May 02, 2015, 07:33:49 pmi mean that i will buy whatever you all offer if everybody says brand X is shit(or garbage...) i won't buy iti don't have experience with soldering stations i don't know what is Good what is bad ....i'll try to use other words than Shit ....Google is my best friend ...Should i get I-Con Nano other ersa or Hakko or wait and buy JBC ? if so which one?sorry but i won't buy any Fake Station only Geniue One ...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 12:56:58 am
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 02, 2015, 12:26:39 pmThese are quality brands. Do keep in mind however, that there are different models at different price points. So you don't want to compare an entry level station, such as the Hakko FX-888D or Ersa I-Con Pico to anything from JBC, or the top end from Hakko, Weller, Ersa, or Pace.There's also the unfortunate issue with pricing in Europe. Still, you don't need to spend 400EUR to get quality. But it will take ~ 200EUR.Quote from: Luckymat on May 02, 2015, 12:26:39 pmDo note that Hakko isn't widely available in Europe, so they tend to be overpriced. If you are interested in a Hakko, I'd recommend going to Batterfly (theirFX-888Dpage <98EUR; they also offer it in silver>). If you want a better performing station, take a look at theFX-950(not as many features as the 951),FX-951orFX-100(same as Metcal or Thermaltronics regarding the heating technology, but it's also JBC level pricing).Do note the performance of the Ersa I-Con Nano will be noticeably better than the FX-888D, but it's also ~2x the cost. Performance wise, the Ersa I-Con Nano is more appropriately compared to the FX-950 or FX-951 (FX-95x use cartridge tips <tip + heating element + temp sensor combined>). Cost & features are more appropriately compared to the FX-951 due to the digital interface & setback features (what it's capable of doing when it's placed in the stand).The Weller WS81 would be comparable to the FX-950 (both use a knob to set temp), while the Weller WD1002T (includes the WDH10T stand, which has a switch in it that connects to the base unit) would be comparable to the FX-951.____________________Now since you're in the market for an oscilloscope as well, you should be aware that Batterfly has aRigol DS1054Z oscilloscope + Hakko FX-888Dbundle for 399EUR (scope + soldering station for the cost of a JBC or Hakko FX-100).Excellent deal, and well suited for a hobbyist or student on a budget, but doesn't want to end up with garbage.A number of members in Europe have purchased from this seller with positive results, and they're the cheapest source for both Hakko and Rigol in Europe I'm aware of.If you've the funds available, or will in a reasonable amount of time, you should seriously consider this ^ bundle offer IMHO.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 11:43:12 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 03, 2015, 12:56:58 amthx thx thx!you'r blown methat not a bad idea at all!will it be shipped from EU so i don't have to pay that stupid cosumers Price?is that hakko fx888D good enough for smd and so on? i don't care about heating time but i care about Quality and will it last?Dave showed original. fx888 and it lasted himis this scope Software upgradable? I mean how much does upgrades cost? 24M memory and 100Mhz?4 chnnels are awesome!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 01:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 03, 2015, 11:43:12 amIf you're asking about Customs Duties (import fees in addition to VAT), NO, they don't exist between EU countries. So since Italy and Germany are both member nations, you won't be billed such fees.Quote from: Luckymat on May 03, 2015, 11:43:12 amWith the right tip, it will do SMD or thru-hole.Just keep in mind, it's not the most powerful station. So you may find instances where it's just not enough, such as 4+ layer boards (i.e. power & ground planes drawing off too much heat). They all run into this at some point, but the FX-888D will see it faster than the Ersa Nano for example.Quote from: Luckymat on May 03, 2015, 11:43:12 amYes, the firmware can be upgraded. It can also be connected to a computer (USB or LAN) and data imported into software, and commands sent to the scope.It can also be hacked to permanently enable all of it's installed options (100MHz, 24M memory, decode options, ...), making it the best deal for a hobbyist oscilloscope right now.

author: matts-uk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 04:18:11 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 03, 2015, 11:43:12 amI used to work in PCB assembly, back in the early 1990s. I have an ESA certificate in a draw somewhere, which qualified me to repair space rocketsI have an FX888D. The pre-sets were a pain to set up but otherwise, after a year, I am happy with it's performance as a solid, no frills, production quality iron. Certainly nicer than the Weller PU3Ds with bit set temperature control, we were invariably provided with on the production benches and expected to do everything with - Woe betide the wireman trying to blame their ironThe Hakko is fine for the day to day work; through hole, cable making, even SMD using the standard bit with some care and attention. For anything hefty, I use a cheap butane gas iron.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 06:08:54 pm
content: my 2 cents...for hobby use i would strongly recommend solomon SL-20 or SL-30 . it's produced in taiwan and probably marketed under different brands as well.i personaly use the solomon SL-20, it's in the sub 100 Eur range (70-90Eur depends on seller) and it's a well built unit with good thermal mass and regulationl.and if i'm not mistaken.... i seen a SL-30 on SeanB's bench in the bench/lab thread

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 06:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on May 03, 2015, 06:08:54 pmIs this a joke? But seriously, for the price they really suck.

author: lastwarrior
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 06:32:11 pm
content: Take a look to Lukey 852D+ , it's a smd rework station , i'm using it for almost 1 year... nice station 100$ < x < 130$ range

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 07:06:05 pm
content: I would suggest thishttp://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loettechnik/jbc/jbc_loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_compact_line/wl26830I have one at work. We use it for 6 - 10 hrs per day for the last 8 years. We still have the original 1.2mm chisel tip.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 07:57:07 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 06:28:34 pmmine looks like and works like a new one after more than a year of intensive usage - i can just recommend it for hobby use - i'm happy with my SL-20.what's your suggestion in that price range ? i would like to definitely try that one if the SL-20 sucks comparted to it

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on May 03, 2015, 07:57:07 pmFor a bit higher price something like genuine hakko 888D (more for US) or I-CON pico . There are some other choices too. Or some hakko clone for cheaper. Solomon is just too expensive for what it offers.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: lastwarrior on May 03, 2015, 06:32:11 pmlol no, this is ghetto tool for ulititarian russians, no comparison.Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 06:28:34 pmnah, Solomons are solid stations. I would easily compare them to older wellers. It will last you 20 years. Trouble is they ARE 20 year old designs (like wellers wes51). There is one opamp, one transistor, one voltage regulator, maybe two capacitors and couple of resistors inside, all connected to old school ceramic heater. Why pay $100 for 20 year old design?Quote from: kxenos on May 03, 2015, 07:06:05 pmnice, C245 cartridges are 140W = very low resistance = you get 0 to 350 in couple of seconds even in 70W station. T245-FA Handpiece is pretty slick too. not to mention you get two tips with it, tips and handle alone are almost 200 euro, good deal even with basic analog station.Damn it, now I want one :/

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 08:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 08:09:56 pmthe question was in the SAME price rangeand actually the Hakko 888 doesn't look any robust from the pictures ( i mean mechanically robust ) - and it's 2 part device. having 2 separate footprints on a desk/bench might be a disadvantage - especially on smaller benches. i think the "glory" of hakko 888 more-or-less exists thanks to Dave & this very forumi'm not saying anything bad about hakko - it might be even the best iron out there (never tried it), i'm just saying it's overly "glorified" here

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 09:16:53 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on May 03, 2015, 08:52:05 pmThat particular price is not here, not there. Though you can find something decent hakko style at that price. The issue is that solomon is too expensive for what it offers and you can buy alternative significantly cheaper.QuoteHakko is robust and separate stand is a huge advantage. You place the stand where you need it. I cannot imagine placing the whole bulky soldering station 10 cm away from the PCB I solder. And reaching soldering iron somewhere away when you need it, just sucks.QuoteMaybe particularly on this forum but overall not at all. There just aren't anything of the same quality/performance in that price range.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 09:16:53 pmat $100 in US? maybe (would still argue, Xytronic has better ones at this price range), at >$200 from reputable European distributor (if there are any at all, so you risk getting chinese clone) fat no, that JBC linked few posts ago kills it in every way possible.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 03, 2015, 10:00:58 pmTherefore I wrote in the previous post:Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 08:09:56 pmYou can get it from the battrefly for about 98EUR + VAT except shipping (signigicantly differs depending on country):http://www.batterfly.com/shop/hakko-fx-888d-silverXytronic seem to be comparably inferior clones at the similar price - significant gap between the heater and tip. Although much better build quality than most of the clones.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:42:27 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 10:23:03 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:51:50 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 03, 2015, 10:42:27 pmYou forgot to say that this tip is for higher end Xytronic soldering stations which do cost more than Hakko 888D

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 11:19:18 pm
content: http://www.xytronic-usa.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=26

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 01:01:44 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on May 03, 2015, 08:52:05 pmSeriously? It allows more flexibility in placement. You can put the power/control unit out of the way, and move the iron's stand closer to the work.Quote from: rob77 on May 03, 2015, 08:52:05 pmIt's the lowest cost entry level station from a tier 1 soldering station manufacturer. That on it's own may not mean anything to you, as you've admittedly never tried one. Do so, and you'll see why.It simply comes down to a station that does the basics well (tips actually fit the heater, and the electronics regulate the heat), as well as minds the little things, such as using silicone insulated wire to connect the iron to the control unit. Seems minor on the surface, but it has a noticeable effect on usability. My one complaint with it would be the user interface being shifted from a simple knob to a digital interface given it's BOM cost allowance (thanks marketing dept.) .You're typical Chinese brand station doesn't approach this level of quality for the money. And the exceptions to this are very close cost wise, if not greater. Quality isn't cheap after all...

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 02:23:44 am
content: I would love to know where I could buy a Hakko FX-888 in the USA, in the SILVER color. I would buy a Hakko but I just don't like the blue/yellow fisher price color scheme. The batterfly.com site someone mentioned earlier is the first place I've actually seen one for sale and I'm not sure about ordering from a site whose default language isn't even English.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 03:10:56 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2015, 11:19:18 pmthis is for 10-20 year of modelsnew models use 413 tips, for example LF-3000/3200/3500 (they start at $110)heater is on the ourside, thermocouple goes into the tip:http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/HF90ESD.htmlhttp://www.reichelt.de/Xytronic-Replacement-Tips-and-Accessories/ERSATZ-XY-HF90/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=110465&GROUPID=4125&artnr=ERSATZ+XY+HF90http://xytronic.com.pl/pl/p/Grot-44-413590/54carl buy a can of paint

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 03:27:02 am
content: Quote from: Carl_Smith on May 04, 2015, 02:23:44 amI'm not seeing a P/N for a silver model in 120V fromHakkousa.com(Hakko's official US website). The one on Batterfly is a 230V version.Silver case parts could be had if you're that set on it though (i.e. paint the main shell & replace the control section so you have the labeling). Seems excessive effort & expense though.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 05:37:00 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 04, 2015, 01:01:44 amSeriously !and please note the word "might" and also the the part "especially for small benches" which you stripped off in your quote

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 06:47:08 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on May 04, 2015, 05:37:00 amSo you set the stand and control unit right next to/on top of - one another if your bench space is tight. JBC's Compact Line takes this approach by bonding them together in this fashion.Other brands you can set the stand on top of the station, similar to old Wellers (anything with a flat top on the control unit). Or if you don't want to set them next to or on top of one another (or can't for whatever reason), there's things like shelves that the control unit can be set on. Stand too for that matter.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 07:40:21 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 04, 2015, 03:10:56 amWhere do they start at $110? I don't know such a place. I only see that handpiece alone do cost $80 (almost as whole fx-888d) on the link you gave.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 07:59:24 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 04, 2015, 07:40:21 amhttp://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2143970_-1of course there is 3 months wait timemodel one power level up is available thohttp://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2181503_-1

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 05:35:27 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 04, 2015, 06:47:08 amteach me master how to put the 2 parts of of hakko 888 on top of each otherany solution involving duct-tape and hot-snot are not acceptedQuote from: nanofrog on May 04, 2015, 06:47:08 amaren't we way off the budget here ?simply admit it - the glorified hakko 888 is not necessarily the best option for everyone.and among the single footprint there is one more (and BIG) advantage of single-body soldering stations - you can't push the stand away by accident - the weight of the station won't allow you to do that

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 05:46:22 pm
content: I don't think this is going to be an issue in real life. Both parts are small, it gives you flexibility when needed, and for the price is very capable. Normally, if something is hyped up (especially by the knowledgeable people here) then there is good reason (ahem DS1054z).

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 09:45:11 pm
content: hii have talked o my Mom and asked her (again) for moneyshe was not happy at alli will get RIGOL DS1054Z in some time for surebut now i have to wait and i'm gonna buy 200€ Stationso what you think should i gethttp://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loettechnik/jbc/jbc_loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_compact_line/wl26830orhttp://www.beta-estore.com/rkuk/order_product_details.html?p=511i won't buy hakko 888D for nowjust vote or post other iron 150-250€few People said i should get the ersa one but that JBC Looks interesting tooand i don't care whatever it has seperate holder or not it has Advantages and disadvantages i'll come along with both

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 09:52:30 pm
content: http://de.farnell.com/metcal/ps-900/l-tstation-60w-240v-eu-uk/dp/1560738

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 10:02:21 pm
content: http://de.farnell.com/metcal/ps-900/l-tstation-60w-240v-eu-uk/dp/1560738Looks OK enough for mehmm i'll buy whatever gets many votes (so now i have 3 to pick from)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 10:53:24 pm
content: no point looking at votes, between those three you will get similar top quality and performance, difference might be in how you like the handle and tip availability (and tip price)

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2015, 01:49:20 am
content: The tips of the JBC contain the heating element so they're a bit pricey (around 80euro each) but they last forever. Out of the three it is clearly the best, I think. Warm up in 2 seconds, can handle large ground planes and thick wires and they have the smallest tip width of all three. METCAL haven't proved so reliable for me (I use the MFR-1350 desoldering tool and 900 hot air station). In the ersa (old model, don't remember which one, I have replaced 2 heating elements and I think 4 tips in the last 10-12 years so I guess it's kind of reliable. Wellers, in my opinion are the worst of top quality brands, ugly, unreliable and expensive to fix. One other option is thermaltronix. Check them out to see if there is a model that suits you

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2015, 01:59:54 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on May 04, 2015, 05:35:27 pmEasy/lazy method = epoxy (single stage putty types found in automotive parts stores would be really handy for curved surfaces, as it's meant to be used as a filler & can take very high temperatures).If you've a problem with that, there's also fasteners.Quote from: nanofrog on May 04, 2015, 06:47:08 amIt was only an example of a station that did a side-by-side enclosure construction rather than separates, which I'm sure you realized was the point.But not everyone is on a tight budget, so it depends on the person doing the shopping.Quote from: rob77 on May 04, 2015, 05:35:27 pmNever said it was. I would however put forth the concept if a buyer is after a quality, entry level station due to budget restrictions (without being unrealistic), then the Hakko FX-888D is one hell of a value v. the Chinese brands that can be had for less money (i.e. you get what you pay for). Not to say 100% of all Chinese brands are garbage, as they're not. But those that are well made are also priced similarly to the FX-888D.Now this ^ used to be only valid for the US/CAN market as we were the only ones that could get them for ~100USD, but with the advent of Batterfly selling the 230V EU version for 98EUR, that's changed to include the EU market as well (according to xe.com, the price works out to ~109USD).Quote from: rob77 on May 04, 2015, 05:35:27 pmI would seriously have to disagree with you here. I don't have an issue with the stands being pushed away due to light weight at all (mine are heavy enough + rubber feet they I've had zero issues with it skittering across the bench when trying to stuff the iron in).FWIW, 2 layer rubber ESD mats usually help keep stuff in place as well IME.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2015, 02:03:37 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 05, 2015, 01:59:54 am+ delivery + 22% VAT. It is a damn sight cheaper than Dancap at any rate.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2015, 02:14:59 am
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 04, 2015, 09:45:11 pmBoth are quality stations, and will give you excellent results.There are some differences though, namely in the heating technology used, which has a direct effect on the cost of the tips.The JBC uses cartridge tips, which means the tip, heating element, and sensor are all part of the tip assembly. Handle is nothing more than a plastic tube with 3 connecting tabs inside to interface with the tips. This also means the tips are more expensive.The Ersa uses an iron that includes the heating element and temperature sensor, so all that's replaced, is the actual tip (just a plated copper slug). Makes the tip replacement cost a lot cheaper. 3 - 5x cheaper per tip on average (depending on tip profile and what you find for street prices).From a technical standpoint, the JBC would have a slight advantage in performance only when pushed to it's limits (not often), but would cost you a lot more money to get your tip selection sorted, as well as have an increased tip replacement cost.Do note that lead based alloys don't etch the iron off nearly as fast as lead-free alloys do, so it's not unheard of to get years out of a single tip for hobbyist users (some have seen 10+ years out of a tip).Quote from: Luckymat on May 04, 2015, 10:02:21 pmThis is also a well built station.Do be aware that the tips on these set the temperature, so if you need more than one temp for a given tip profile, you'll have to buy more than one tip in that size. Sounds strange, but this actually makes sense from a process control POV in manufacturing, as the user cannot change the settings.For a hobbyist however, this can translate to additional expense to build up a tip collection.___________________________Definitely something to think about, depending on what's important to you (suspect consumables cost are going to be a real issue for you for right now).Personally I'd skip the Metcal/OKi entirely due to the lack of temperature control, and use tip cost as the deciding factor between the JBC or Ersa. That said, ultimately I've the sense the Ersa would be the best choice for ~200EUR based on what you've posted.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2015, 02:33:46 am
content: Quote from: kxenos on May 05, 2015, 01:49:20 amthey are 20-30 euro now, and like you say they last foreverhttp://www.jbctools.com/catalegfitxa.php?idpro=890#C245673there are two tips already included with 210Euro JBC, making it a great deal

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 09:58:55 pm
content: Weidinger does not sell to end consumers, they do only to business customers. So all of the prices on their website are without VAT, which in Germany is 19%... Add that to your 219€ and the price Luckymat had to pay, if they would sell it to him (which they will not), would be ~260€...JBC soldering stations are hard to get for end consumers in Germany (same goes for Hakko), your best bet is eBay orhttp://www.chiemtronic.de/- that's pretty it. That's a somewhat uncomfortable situation, because if, say in a few years from now, you need some spare parts or tips or whatever and these few shops are out of business by then, you may have a problem...On the other hand, if you buy a Weller or Ersa (in Germany), you always get everything from hundreds of sources without any problems, even a decade or more later. I can even take my bicycle on a Saturday evening, ride the 30 Minutes to the next bigger town and buy me a Weller tip in an old fashioned brick and mortar store. Try that with a JBC tip... They wouldn't even know the company or think of car stereos...So my advice would be to stick to the well known and supported brands here in Germany, even if the mentioned JBC station may be very appealing, from a pure technical standpoint of view. But broad availability and long term and easy support may pay out in the long run and (at least in my opinion) outweighs slight technical advantages by far...

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2015, 09:26:42 am
content: You couldbuild one yourselfthat uses the excellent WXMP. Or if you prefer self-madeHakko/JBC.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2015, 09:37:16 pm
content: I think i will buy that ersa i-con nano (....again)will it be shipped from eu if i buy it from that site? (http://www.beta-estore.com/rkuk/order_product_details.html?p=511)I will get it somewhere next month(I won't.close that thread for now becouse i may have problems)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2015, 10:20:16 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 12, 2015, 09:37:16 pmIt seem to be Ireland based. But I wonder, why would you want to get German made soldering station abroad while you can buy it in Germany for less money?

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 08:33:02 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 12, 2015, 10:20:16 pmlink pls...amazon did sell me kind of broken one...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 11:12:58 am
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 13, 2015, 08:33:02 amClick on the link, then scroll to the bottom of the page.At which point you'll find this...Beta LAYOUT Ltd. | Bay 98Shannon Free Zone | Shannon, Co. Clare | IrelandTelephone: +353 (0)61 701170 | Facsimile: +353 (0)61 701164E-Mail: shop@beta-estore.comAs mentioned, Amazon has a nasty habit of reselling defective returns instead of sending them back to the manufacturer (even on top tier goods like Wiha & Ersa), and they're marked/listed as new, unopened.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 11:27:24 am
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 13, 2015, 08:33:02 amSo what? As if the soldering station would be different if bought from different place. Also at least a part of what you wrote was lack of understanding rather than actual fault.http://www.ersa-shop.com/ersa-icon-nano-elektronisch-geregelte-l%C3%B6tstation-standby-antistatisch-p-364.html

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 12:08:41 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 13, 2015, 11:27:24 amHuh?Regarding the station itself, a working Ersa i-Con Nano is a working i-Con Nano.Worst case, it might need a different power cord.I'm just advocating skipping Amazon in favor of a distributor instead (may still get a bad one, but not due to recycling defective units back into saleable stock nonsense that Amazon pulls).You won't have any potential issues with warranty support either.I only posted Beta's physical address to confirm they're based in Ireland as he requested a link for proof. As per why it's cheaper in Ireland than Germany, they're in a unique location,Shannon Free Zone(lower taxes in this particular case), andgrosswages are higher in Germany than Ireland (sources =EurostatandNational; after taxes however, it seems the Irish end up with more in take-home pay <lower gross values, but higher net values in Ireland are consistent in both sources>).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 12:25:45 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 13, 2015, 12:08:41 pmQuoted right sentence from the wrong post

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 12:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 13, 2015, 12:08:41 pmIt is more expensive in Ireland, 198 EUR > 177 EUR if I'm understanding maths right

author: FlevasGR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 12:55:34 pm
content: I just got my Hakko FX888D for 130 eurosHaven't tested it yet cuz freaking 110V transformer....

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 01:06:32 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 13, 2015, 12:31:49 pmThe way I read it, the 160.98EUR figure at Beta would have to be before VAT, as is Ersa's 177EUR figure (if I'm reading that correctly; Mein Deutsch ist heutzutage rostig).Given it's the higher number, that would make Beta's 198EUR figure inclusive of VAT (seems they did reversenetandgross), as there's no way it starts at 198EUR and then drops to 168.98EUR after VAT.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 01:18:13 pm
content: 177 EUR is with VAT included. The same as on amazon.dehttp://www.amazon.de/ERSA-i-CON-digitale-L%C3%B6tstation-0IC1200A/dp/B002MQLJ46

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 02:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 13, 2015, 01:18:13 pmI recall reading there was a special of some sort going on from Ersa, but that was some time ago. Guess it's still active.Doubt EU members would have any issues with a lower price on an excellent station.

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 09:07:07 pm
content: Now i'm kind of confused ..Can i buy it directly from ersa shop for less than the other one ?i don't want to buy from amazon this time....the hande was to hot for me to hold plus some other problems.....if new unit heats up handle i will put sugru or rubber or anything to make it cold...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2015, 11:29:37 pm
content: Quote from: Luckymat on May 13, 2015, 09:07:07 pmSeems that the deal Ersa was running is still in effect, so appears to be cheaper than Beta (was under the impression the deal was consistent through distributors though). If you want to be sure, call, chat, or email both before ordering.Another trick is see what the final price will be during checkout (i.e. go all the way to just prior to entering in payment information).Either way, you'll have absolute confirmation as to what the final price will be (I find it best to do this anyway, particularly regarding shipping fees).

author: Luckymat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:43:45 am
content: Hii won't get this station soon (i think i quit electronics)sorry i don't have time and stable internet and i'll close that thread if i have timemy whole house burned downhttp://www.ostsee-zeitung.de/Extra/Polizei-Report/ots-Polizeireport/Polizeimeldungen-Stralsund/Feuer-in-Stralsund-acht-Wohnungen-nicht-mehr-bewohnbarall money all eq all parts awerything

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:50:36 pm
content: Truly sorry to hear that, and I hope the injuries you and your mom sustained are minor.Wish you both the best in getting back into a stable home and financial situation as quickly as possible.