Ultrasonic cleaner and cats - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 07:55:20 am
content: I want to buy a small ultrasonic cleaner, probably a 50-80W chinese one for under $100 (exact model doesn't matter in this situation I think).There is a potential problem though (2 of them to be precise):All of the ultrasonic cleaners seem to work at 40kHz or around that value, and I know that cats can hear ultrasounds. I don't want to do any harm to them or make them uncomfortable or something. Does anyone here have any experience in this regard? (photo of a at sitting next to working cleaner would convince me the most

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 07:58:56 am
content: Two pairs of ear plugs ?... j/k

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:25:31 am
content: I do wear earplugs when sitting next to it yes.The working frequency may be above my hearing, but it has a lot of extra noises (reverse harmonics?) that are annoying and still high pitched. And I value my hearing.There are cats, but they are never around in the work area regardless of the ultrasonic. They may not like the other equipment either. The dog is normally around, but I do not specifically recall her being near the ultrasonic or not, I would have to make a test to see if she leaves when I turn it on.For reference:- A cheap small Chinese one I measured at 30.000Hz (and very noisy to both my ears and mains, I typically cannot measure anything cleanly on my scope if I have that turned on)- A better build small western one I measured at 100.000Hz (and more quiet)- A large multi piezo industrial one is at 30.000Hz, sweeping to 100.000HzBut as stated, there is lots of over and undertones everywhere in the spectrum.Edit: for clarity, the cats, dog and most of the ultrasonic devices are not at my own workplace, but my brothers place who sells them. So I cannot run any tests right now.)

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:35:02 am
content: I keep most of the electronics at my apartemant, and there doesn't seem to be much problem with cats. They are not interested in general i think, and even if they are, they've never done any damage. I keep only light duty stuff at home, most heavy-duty or nasty stuff like cnc machine, drill press, etching setup and such are kept at my parents' basement (they live a couple blocks away, so not a problem).

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:50:42 am
content: Good to know actually. I've been looking at some on ebay.30W/50W Professional Mini Ultrasonic Cleaner For Jewelry Glasses Circuit Boardhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/280882346874?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:03:58 pm
content: for glasses?!The one I do have here is 50W, and I wouldnotput my glasses in there. I am sure the frame has no problem, but I would be afraid it would damage the various coatings (anti-reflection, scratch resist, etc) of the actual lenses.Standard 'at home' test if they work is with alu-foil. Take a look attoward the end. Would you want to put your lenses in that?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:50:54 pm
content: Sound waves follow inverse-square law. If you're worried don't switch it on with the cats near, and they will automatically not go closer if it's too loud for them.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 01:11:08 pm
content: i have a small cheap ultrasonic cleaner, my dog doesn't like it.Though it doesn't bother her if she is in another room.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 01:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 04, 2014, 12:03:58 pmI put my glasses in my industrial ultrasonic about once a week. I have found no damage after multiple years of treatments. Keep in mind it only takes about 5 seconds in the tank to blast all the gunk out of them so I don't know what an extended bath would do. Lenscrafters, where I buy my glasses tells me that is normal procedure for them when someone brings there crusty glasses in for adjustment or repair.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 02:02:06 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on February 04, 2014, 01:21:51 pmCan't really argue with field experience like that, but I am still going to give it a pass, thanks.Did you look to see what happened with that aluminium foil? You can easily repeat those results at home.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 02:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 04, 2014, 02:02:06 pmYes my Crest unit does a fine job of making Swiss cheese of that foil.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 03:03:39 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on February 04, 2014, 12:50:54 pmI believe the same.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 04:51:14 pm
content: I have a 240W chinese unit, and two cats around. If I switch it on they will take notice, but don't seem to be annoyed - though they don't seem to have a desire to sit next to it

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:21:46 pm
content: Regarding the 'foil test' are we not just witnessing the work hardening of a metal which lead to fracture ? The tin foil is flexed by the ultrasonic waves at such a rate as to fracture it. Larger objects would not flex to the same extent, so are unlikely to suffer any ill effects. Glass is regularly placed in such tanks, even coated optics.Where some people go wrong is in the cleaning fluids used. I have seen solvents and harsh cleaning chemicals added to the water with unfortunate results.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on February 04, 2014, 07:55:20 amYou can use this technique and play

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on February 04, 2014, 01:21:51 pmthe eyewear shop that I've used forever (basically) always cleans their glasses in an ultrasonic cleaner. dentists use them as well for retainers and other such items.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:33:36 pm
content: Well, retainers, sure. Light dulling of a surface would not be a problem.I accept that if you guys say you have used it for years on glasses without problems, its true. (I am still giving it a pass myself though). I also understand the argument of metal fatigue as a cause of the alu-foil holes, so it may mean it may not be as harsh as it looks.But comparing it with dentures and retainers is not really a good argument. Not quite the same as optics.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:47:55 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 04, 2014, 11:33:36 pmFor years my wife has domestic ultrasonic jewelery cleaners. Dirt cheap and not very powerful, compared to pro stuff. They are not good enough for flux removal or degreasing small machine parts (I tried both when she wasn't looking). But jewelery, glasses, sunglasses, watches with metal wristbands (there is a special inset so only the wristband is in the water) all go in and come out cleaner and shiny. No damage to any glasses or other stuff.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:29:06 am
content: If in doubt about placing spectacles in such a unit, you could ask your optician for advice. They deal with the fragile optics on a daily basis and should know the risks if placed in an ultrasonic bath. IMHO the risk will be the lenses RUBBING on someting solid like the supporting tray. Our dishwasher does a good job of producing marks on our drinking glasses if you position them too close to eachother and they rub during the clean.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:34:10 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on February 05, 2014, 12:29:06 amactually, I've found the biggest problem is if you use a contaminated solvent.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 12:42:48 am
content: FWIWI have a 360W industrial unit with sweeping frequency. With a water based industrial cleaner heated to where it is uncomfortable to leave a surgical gloved hand in the tank for very long. You can see the dirt and grease blast right out of all the nooks and crannies. In 5 to 10 seconds it is done and I am swishing the glasses continually while in the tank. There is no need to have the glasses sit in the basket where they may indeed get scratched. Heat is a huge aspect of the cleaning action of greasy soils. If I tried to clean the glasses with room temp solution it would take several minutes and still not be as clean.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 04:46:12 am
content: I've always wondered why people wear earplugs when working with US equipment, but when it comes to their Sonicare toothbrushes they'll just stick 'em right in their mouths, no problem. They do know that the jaw is an excellent conductor of sound and is fixed a few mm from the ear, right?

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 08:57:58 am
content: Because they do not brush their teeth for hours?Also, I am not so much wearing earplugs for the base frequency. I am not really worried that I may loose my hearing in the 30KHz range. Its the annoyingly sub-tones that I do hear that I worry about. It also depends on the device: The noisy Chinese one: I wear them. The better build western ones, in principle I do think I should wear them, but I often forget.

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 04:31:26 am
content: Quote from: poorchava on February 04, 2014, 07:55:20 amFWIW, I researched ultrasonic cleaners from September through January. One reviewer of such cleaners remarked that he could have bought a quality industrial cleaner for less than what he paid for all the junky toy-like ones he bought and junked over the last few years. So, after robrenz recommended Crest (thanks!) I went Crest-hunting and found a good deal on a CP230D. (Crest was among the cleaners I'd researched.) It was way more than I wanted to pay, but I'm damn-happy to be skipping lunch for a month and cleaning all my stuff with the Crest.Can't add anything re puddycats, but here's my furry little Bro's reaction to the Crest...

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 05:49:01 am
content: Whatever you do, don't poke your fingers in the bath while in operation. I have a dentist friend who has arthritis in his fingers specifically linked to the degeneration of bone material due to exposure to ultrasonic baths.Our optometrist has an ultrasonic bath and does glasses as routine. We've used mine at home for years to clean our specs. Water bath with a few drops of detergent.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 10:01:41 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 04, 2014, 12:03:58 pmYou have to be kidding.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 10:33:01 am
content: Kidding?scratch-resist <> scratch-proofBut more importantly:scratching <> cavitationWho knows, something can be ultrahard under everyday temperatures, but boil off under vacuum (caused by cavitation) easily. Or react under the high molecular temperature (cause by the implosion following the cavitation).By now it is well established that no-one has any long term problems with their glasses, sorry. But please do not go suggesting my worry was ridiculous.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 02:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 06, 2014, 10:33:01 amI still worry, that's the reason for the 5 seconds.My cleaner will remove the color from anodizing if you leave the part in there for an extended period. Yes, jet black to barely grey in an hour. So your concern is warranted.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2014, 04:53:46 am
content: A large number of optical store in big cities of Japan offers free cleaning services where customers would dip their glasses in self service forever running ultrasonic machines. You will notice this as a tourist.It will also destroy micro claws which holds tiny diamond stones in place so jewelry cleaners beware. Short intervals will remove most stubborn dirt, anymore you will need chemical cleaning.Its great for removing flux off circuit boards when teamed with pcb cleaners but some components like MEMS don't like it check datasheet before hand.As for cats, well they will start acting weird and etc you will know it. How about turning up the stereo till unbearable loud observe how they act. Leave the door open they can leave if they don't enjoy it. I doubt consumer grade ultrasonic cleaner will generate as loud volume as a stereo unit.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2014, 05:06:16 pm
content: @OPI finally tested with the cat/dog. Not sure if it was still needed, I forgot earlier in the week.The cat test is not conclusive. She did respond to the turning on by running away. But to be honest, she was quite 'on-edge' anyway, as we brought her into a place with machinery she normally avoids. I suspect she would have run away from any noise we could have made. With food placed Hansel/Gretel/Breadcrumb style we even managed to get her back to the device of her own free will. But very on edge, especially as the device alternated between operation modes.The dog is a different matter. Used to the area, she did not respond at all to turning on the US.That does not prove much though. She may merely be used to the fact humans make strange noises. Maybe she did hear the US, but hey, forklift, compressor, utrasound, whatever.So, no real solid conclusions, but I would hazard to say that worse case, they find the ultra-sound 'ignorable' and not 'unbearable'.