panavise vacuum foot on rubber ESD bench mat - Does it work? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 10:49:22 pm
content: Anyone know if a panavise vacuum foot (a.k.a. suction cup) will work on rubber ESD mat?While I'm at are there any economical alternatives to panavise? I'd rather have some long flexible arms that can have interchangable clamps on the end while the other end clamps to the bennch.Maybe I have to DIY.

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 11:29:58 pm
content: Works for me, as well as it does on the rest of my bench.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 11:42:09 pm
content: Even if the vacuum base will hold (should on a smooth mat, not so sure on a textured one/how long it holds), the mat *could* still move on you.I was a bit concerned with this issue myself, so I went with a steel plate instead (~12"x12", 3/16" thick), and it's heavy enough neither it nor the mat shifts beneath it. Picked it up from a metal shop for ~$8.00 (sold as scrap). Drilled 3 holes, hit it with some spray paint, and stuck on some rubber bumpers on the bottom (act as standoffs for the nuts, as I didn't have a tap to thread the plate).The standard aluminum base plate would likely do as well, but I wasn't willing to spend ~$23 or so on it, and did my DIY version for about half the cost FWIW.Not aware of a less expensive ready-made alternative that's as good as a Panavise (Bernstein's Spannfixvises are really nice, butway more expensive). There's aProxxonunit, but it doesn't have any other heads, and I was a little concerned of it shifting under any kind of load (i.e. cutting holes in a panel or holding a heavy assembly).But there are DIY alternatives, and those made ofLoc-Line(or similar coolant hose) seem to be really useful for light loads (holding wires while tinning, ... sorts of things).

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 12:01:54 am
content: 1) How smooth is your ESD mat? Is it smooth enough for the suction cup to hold vacuum? I sometimes use a moist fingertip to wet around the border of the cup.2) How stiff is your ESD mat? If it is too "floppy" then it won't hold against the suction.3) How steady is your ESD mat? If it can move around on your bench, then it won't be much good holding your vice steady.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 05:48:21 am
content: Scrap steel plate, or go to a laser cutting shop and ask to look through the scrap bin to get a rectangular or square cutout from a job. 6-10mm will do so long as it is larger than the vice base by about 30mm or so each side. Will have a single hole and line to the edge about 5mm from one spot, from the laser start, but not a worry. You sand it smooth and paint it, or if it is stainless steel just sand it smooth.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 03:23:46 pm
content: The mat won't move but a weighted base seems less trouble.I looked at loc-line but in my quick search it seemed expensive.I may also look for a cantilever desk lamp and put a clamp on the end of it or something like that.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 04:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on April 21, 2014, 03:23:46 pmDepends on your perspective I guess. Take a lookherefor example (~$8.50 for a 1/4" hose kit), so I don't see it as too horrible for a big brand name product.But there is a bit less expensive alternative brand known as Jeton (~$4.50 for their 1/4" hose kit), but it's harder to find (one store on eBay, and they also sell through Amazon, just don't have the kit listed). And if you're feeling adventurous, no-name copies from China can be found on eBay as well.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 04:44:51 pm
content: I had a WunHungLo bench hobby vise. I thought it was pretty good until I picked up a used Panavise 301 with 308 baseplate for $20-same price as the WunHungLo-like going from a Yugo to a Mercedes Benz. I also have a Panavise 350 work center. My only beef is the cross bar the holders travel on is too wide for what I do and takes up too much space so I will visit the local home improvement store and get a shorter piece of square tubing to reduce overall footprint. Go with the Panavise, you won't regret it.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 05:11:50 pm
content: @nanofrog, I was thinking of something that could be clamped to the bench, so at least 20 inches or so but I don't know how stiff loc-line is either.@GreyWoolfe, haven't ruled out the brand, probably will depend on what deal I find.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 06:29:05 pm
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on April 21, 2014, 05:11:50 pmI mentioned the kits, as they seem to be notably more cost effective than buying everything separately to DIY a helping hand. But if you check out the link, you'll see they sell additional sections of hose you can add to make it longer (1/4" hose here).As per stiffness, I don't know what kind of load you plan to put on it, but it's likely quite a bit stiffer than you realize (size is inner diameter, not outer). Trick would be to keep the length in check though, as load capacity will be reduced the longer it gets (think lever). They also make multiple sizes, and the larger you go, it gets stiffer to a point from what I understand (more surface area at each joint, so increased friction). For example, you could use 1/2" or 3/4" to make a nice camera mount, and 1/4" is definitely sufficient for common tasks such as tinning a 10AWG wire (wire will flex before the loc-line hose moves), holding a probe, ... sorts of things. The 2.5" size is even usable for solder fume extraction (Hakko uses the ESD version of it).FWIW, Loc-Line makes 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", and 2.5" sizes, and Jeton makes the same, but also make a 3/8" size.A light clamp, vacuum base, or heavy piece of steel plate or stone would work to keep the thing stable. Magnetic if your table top is steel. I like one that can be set anywhere, then moved out of the way when done. And it happens to allow for shorter arms vs. what I think you're interested in doing. Up to you of course, but at 20" or so, I'd be concerned it will be a bit too long using a more modest diameter (could move on you).Here's some various links to give you ideas, and can illustrate what the hose is actually capable of...Gorilla PodDesk SquidThird Hand++Helpful Helping HandsDIY 4-arm Helping Hands Soldering ToolSoldering "helping hands" made with Loc-Line coolant hoseLoc-Line, I Love This Stuff(camera mount)Examples of Solutions Made with Loc-Line from Modularhose.com(.pdf)Some commercial products that use it.Panavise can do things a Loc-Line can't, so is still nice to have IMHO. Unfortunately, they don't go on sale very often, so you'll be hard pressed to find it at a significant discount (last I saw, was from Radio Shack on the 324 Electronic Work Center). You could try for used on eBay, but due to the popularity, it could take a while before finding a good deal (see a lot of used going for near new prices). The big plus IMHO (it's value), is it's not a disposable item, and will last you for years (your lifetime if it's not abused IMHO), so paying new prices actually isn't that bad when you consider the time frame.

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 03:21:30 am
content: @nanofrog, definitely will look at this some more. Took a quick look at the Thrid hand++, I like that one. It seems the lines need some special pliers though so I need to find out if I can do without special pliers.I found some lightbulb socket extensions that may meet my needs, as usual there're a lot of solutions.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 06:57:53 am
content: Quote from: GiskardReventlov on April 22, 2014, 03:21:30 amYou don't require the pliers, but they make it a lot easier.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 02:42:08 pm
content: I agree with your thoughts, nanofrog. I bought my 301/308 combo off of a fellow ham who had it for years. I spent a few extra dollars replacing the jaw inserts off eBay and it works like new though it doesn't look like new. If the 5 yo granddaughter gets an interest in electronics and soldering, she will be able to keep them a lifetime. I don't mind DIY. I built my workbench and oscilloscope cart because I didn't want to pay the price for new/used. To me, there is nothing that beats Panavise, absolutely worth every penny spent. I might have to investigate modifying my 301 to accept a loc-line helping hands build.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 04:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on April 22, 2014, 02:42:08 pmThis is usually my approach as well. Such items are hard (usually impossible) to find used in my location, so DIY is the only realistic way of getting such items and keep the budget acceptable. DIY's ability to allow for customization is also very attractive.Workbenches and shelves would be the biggest example in my case (still need to finish, as I've run out of motivation lately).

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2014, 05:10:33 am
content: Ok I see that it can be done w/o pliers. And the other projects that used locline got me inspired a little. But it's not cheap. I see some gooseneck work lights with magnetic bases and I wonder what material they are. Looks like some kind of coated conduit. It's not locline. Still thinking it over and not in a big hurry.Videographers might like to look at locline to get those tricky camera angles during teardowns. I see those camera mounts made from locline.