Do all modern oscilloscopes support a mouse? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 09:25:35 pm
content: As mentioned in the subject, do all modern oscilloscopes support a mouse?I was wondering about models like the Siglent SDS800X HD, Hantek DSO1102, DSO1104, etc.Do these oscilloscopes run on an operating system like Linux?TIA!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 10:00:10 pm
content: Welcome to the forum...Just a moment, let me dust off my crystal ball...You can easily find the answer yourself by looking at the respective data sheets to see if a mouse is supported or not.The same applies to the operating system, although this rarely finds its way into the respective documents (Rigol is different with their DHO models and indicate the system (Android).The touch-based models from Siglent use an OS based on Linux, including the 800X HD.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 10:07:54 pm
content: Hantek <> HanmatekI think they are designed for operation with buttons and knobs only.Hantek DSO2000 is based on Linux.

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 10:31:50 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 03, 2025, 10:00:10 pmThank you!I couldn't find this info in the HANMATEK manual (the one I found online, and I believe it’s the same one that comes with the scope). I saw some threads about installing a mouse on Siglent scopes, but I wasn’t sure if that’s a standard feature.These are all kind of new to me. I used old analog scopes a couple of decades ago in college, and then I bought a used analog scope that didn't see much use, other than looking at clipping voltages of audio amps. These modern scopes are far more advanced than the old ones, but being digital, they have much lower voltage resolution, and it's easy to miss data due to sampling. Mouse support would have been a nice touch as a standard feature.I’m just getting back into the electronics hobby more seriously!

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 10:36:35 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on January 03, 2025, 10:07:54 pmThanks for the reply!I am aware that Hantek and Hanmatek are different, but for day-to-day tinkering, HANMATEK should be sufficient, I guess. Hanmatek is the cheapest one right now!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 10:56:52 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 03, 2025, 10:00:10 pmFTFY

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 11:54:27 pm
content: Hm?

author: norbert.kiszka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2025, 11:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: hanair on January 03, 2025, 09:25:35 pmFirst of all, Linux is not the "operating system", but just a small part of a OS. It's just a kernel. Core in other words.Linux kernel is not same as in Windows, OSX or other closed-source systems. In Windows You have kernel in a binary form, and practically You can't modify it.But having Linux kernel source code (GPL license and available for free at kernel.org, Github.com and many many other places) makes possible to modify it as You like. If You are a programmer and You have some humor, You can change it code at boot time to make some message like: f*ck you and halt further execution... Just because You can.Again but... If You are not programmer (zero knowledge about it), You can also modify Linux kernel code via menus (I don't want to repeat documentation here) - basically You have an app where You can click which things You want and which You don't want.For example, You want use some crazy software (app) to do a sound server to play 24 bit 384 kHz audio from all Your devices via WiFi, Bluetooth, Ethernet and who knows what else (BTW. in normal and modern Linux distributions this is a normal feature, but disabled by default) at the same time and You encountered problems with more devices causing distortions or sound interruptions and You have found on the internet two solutions: one is to buy 10 times more expensive machine for this sound server or recompile kernel with CONFIG_1000Hz option, so You can download source code, open menu app, chose that option and recompile it in two simple steps - in 15 minutes You have different (modified) kernel.As You can see, word Linux means practically nothing - You can use one line of code from it (originally hundreds millions code lines) and call it as a Linux. However, beside of *BSD, this is a best OS kernel - no matter if You are regular user, electronic engineer, programmer or... a scope manufacturer.Repeating myself again, Linux kernel is not any magic thing and it's source code is on GPL Licence, so anybody can download it for free, read it, modify it in almost any way (there are exceptions, which many producers doesn't care...) or it it if this become possible some day.So, You can design some device for a mass production and You don't care about mouse support in kernel, so You disable it at compile time to make it lighter and faster for a very limited machine like Rigol, Hantek or other Frinirsi. Or... which is very probably, manufacturer just doesn't care and You have what You have.You can ask manufacturer for a source code (according to the GPL license, they must give what they used to build a final binary), change it for Your own needs, recompile and reinstall. From my experience, good luck to ask Rigol for a source code - they even published e-mail address to ask for that, but they didn't even reply to anyone, except one person for one scope (which sadly I don't have).Also, kernel is a kernel only. It can have mouse driver built in, but it can be no one thing that will take any data from this driver. Embedded devices like modern digital scopes are mostly like, You have what You have. Do Your reverse engineering and make Your own Linux based system for your scope likeI did...Let me repeat myself: Linux is not the operating system - it's just the core of it - take Andoid as a example, which is way different than Ubuntu/Debian/RedHat/etc, but it also uses Linux as a kernel.Answering your question in short: I don't have magic glass ball. I had one but some time ago it fell down the stairs.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 07:53:22 am
content: Quote from: hanair on January 03, 2025, 09:25:35 pma) No.b) Some of them have something even better - a touch screen!

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 12:06:31 pm
content: That said, one could mention that most DSOs have a PC software (including Hantek and Owon/Hanmatek) and can of course be operated via PC with the mouse (to a certain extent).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 04:40:34 pm
content: QuoteFor small touchscreens (7”, SDS800X HD, DHO800/900), using a mouse makes more sense.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 05:01:37 pm
content: Mouse + touch screen is nice too if you're not too close to the scope, even on bigger screens.

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 05:20:32 pm
content: Quote from: norbert.kiszka on January 03, 2025, 11:58:07 pmLOL!Let me repeat myself: Linux is not the operating system - it's just the core of it - take Andoid as a example, which is way different than Ubuntu/Debian/RedHat/etc, but it also uses Linux as a kernel.Let me repeat that with you:Linux is not the operating system - it's just the core of it - take Andoid as a example, which is way different than Ubuntu/Debian/RedHat/etc, but it also uses Linux as a kernel.QuoteThanks for the link! I will certainly take a look at this! I don't have a Rigol though.QuoteDid you buy that from Amazon or AliExpress?

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 05:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on January 04, 2025, 12:06:31 pmHanmatek-DOS1104 and Owon-SDS1104 have similar specs and look similar, but they are not identical. However, it is certainly worth trying!

author: norbert.kiszka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 06:08:58 pm
content: Quote from: hanair on January 04, 2025, 05:20:32 pmKeep it that way. Rigol is not going to be better currently. At least with last designs, buggy software and very bad support.Quote from: hanair on January 04, 2025, 05:20:32 pmNah, it was from local shop with black magic stuff. They went bankrupt though.

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 06:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: norbert.kiszka on January 03, 2025, 11:58:07 pmYour custom build looks very interesting! Do you discuss the details anywhere outside of GitHub?You mentioned in the README.md: "The oscilloscope app is not fully ported (it's not here yet)."; Do you have the source code, or are you building it from scratch?I am a software developer, but not smart enough to hack Linux!Here is another DIY "flea-scope" for up to 1 MHz or so, which should work fine for audio frequencies (I think it's open source and with mouse support, LOL).https://www.instructables.com/Flea-Scope-18-Msps-13-BoM-WebUSB/

author: norbert.kiszka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 07:02:39 pm
content: Quote from: hanair on January 04, 2025, 06:37:52 pmLooks like practically here. Not so many people are interested with creating custom firmware for a scope. Lately I succeed to make kernel 5.10 work on my scope, instead of old 4.4. That was my very first DRM (graphics subsystem) driver - based on very limited resources, like a lack of documentation from Rockchip.Quote from: hanair on January 04, 2025, 06:37:52 pmI wrote driver kernel modules based on reverse engineering from modules in Rigol firmware and couple times with multimeter (like driving relays for AFG voltage dividers). Funny thing, before I was only modifying existing code in Linux kernel, but with that project - my very first module and driver was based by new knowledge and reverse engineering.Quote from: hanair on January 04, 2025, 06:37:52 pmI was at that stage too some years ago. Best method to learn is a motivation to do something and just do it.Quote from: hanair on January 04, 2025, 06:37:52 pmI have no experience with scopes like that. But in audio, especially amplifiers, You can encounter ringing at radio frequency and You will not see this with scope running 18 Msps. Once my colleague was asking me why his radio receiver plays same audio as in his amplifier... In that cases You can have problems with law for transmitting without licence or even jamming radio stations.Anyway, today I will probably not make any new code, because I have feverEdit: I forgot to mention. At the beginning Im planing to run original app on this new system. With that, it will be easier to do more reverse engineering or just use it as it is.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 07:24:54 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on January 04, 2025, 05:01:37 pmI'm more and more using a mouse at the scope instead of touch where adjustment of numeric fields can be done with the mouse scroll wheel.

author: hanair
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 07:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: norbert.kiszka on January 04, 2025, 07:02:39 pmHave you tried customized firmware on any other scope, say HanmaTek DOS1102/1104 (or OWON-SDS1102/1104)?

author: norbert.kiszka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 07:54:47 pm
content: Currently my first and last firmware made from scratch is on Rigol DHO800 and DHO900 series only. Maybe after some time I will do the same for other scopes. This one is not finished yet - practically only operating system works, so for example, You can use calculator or watch some movie...