I'm trying to learn electronics and taking MITx 6.002x finding it too hard... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Mint.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 03:40:08 am
content: I am really interested in electronics. I am taking the 6.002x course on MIT, but I am finding it very hard and confusing. To solve the questions I mainly use external sources rather than the book and video's provided. I am not enjoying this course one bit because it is very confusing and far too challenging for me. I really want to learn electronics, but I don't feel like I can complete this course. What is your opinion on this?

author: Greg323i
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 04:28:56 am
content: I think this course assumes some knowledge of other things that I have not studied, particularly physics and calculus. I am trying to stick with it because I think if I can work through the beginning weeks that it may get easier, but then, it may not. Either way, I find that I am learning a lot even if I can't keep up.The other problem I've had is that I've done my back and had international visitors the past few weeks and so I am completely behind and I'm not sure I'm going to get homeworks submitted by Monday, but the fact that they're throwing out the lowest two grades may help me on that.You might find someone in your area that may "mentor" you if you ask them nicely.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 04:30:41 am
content: I haven't taken any of the MIT online courses...yet.I'm still new at electronics, but I'd say the best way to learn electronics is over time. Don't stress yourself trying to learn everything quickly, because it's impossible to do so. Perhaps try focusing on one particular area first and master it...or close to master it. So if you are interested in power supplies, try to figure out how they work. If you are interested in audio amplifiers, try them.Of course you will need some theory before you go diving into these things. For that, All About Circuits has some very good online resources. I own the All New Electronics Self Teaching guide. Admittedly, when I bought the book a few years ago...I looked at a lot of it and said "WTF is this!?!?" But if you just keep perusing information on the internet and ask questions you can figure it out. It's about 2 and a half years since I started on electronics and I think letting it all soak in over time is the best way for good retention. Sure you could try to cram it all in from a textbook, but that won't do you too much good. Try building your own circuits, even if they are very simple. Even these simple circuits build confidence and help you learn. In my opinion, try to stay away from too many electronics kits. Some may argue otherwise, but I think if you actually have to look at a circuit diagram and piece it together, it is much more benefical to you, because then you might actually understand how and why it works.Just some of my thoughts. Soo...Don't stress yourself. You'll start to "get it" as long as you stay motivated. Read some introductory books. Read them again. Do an experiment. Read them over one more time. Ask questions. Ask some more. And on and on.Stay at it. You might think you understand what's being told to you in a textbook, but you might come back the next day, the next week, month, or year and read that book again...and have an epiphany. "So THAT's how that works!"

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 06:21:51 am
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 24, 2012, 03:40:08 am1)Positively identify the point of suspected confusion.2) Usewhatever resources at your disposalto dispel any misunderstanding.3) Be completely honest with yourself; knowing the answer to a question without being able to justify why the answer is correct is absolutely worthless.4) If another confusing concept arises, recursively go back to step 1.5) Try again.6) If problem persists, go back to step 1.

author: Mint.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 06:27:17 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 24, 2012, 06:21:51 amI do not have the time for step 3. The deadline is every week I do not have the time to look back and see whenever I understand this. I got to move on!

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 06:47:12 am
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 24, 2012, 06:27:17 amThen you're either not ready for the course or lack the necessary motivation to see completion.At a proper university, there's a reason why engineering students generally lack sleep and a nominal social life. If you want it bad enough, you'll make the necessary sacrifices.

author: bfritz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 07:00:38 am
content: The fact you are doubting if you have what it takes to complete the course, is evidence that the course is a real EE101 course. You are being fed massive amounts of new information, in an incredibly short time, and having to make sense of it, in a limited time period. Congratulations, this is the college experience!I do not know if you have the background to be successful in the course, but I'm sure you do. If I remember the course assumes that you have had Calculus and Differential Equations. It also assumes some basic physics. If you haven't had college courses in those areas, you will get to a point where the math will become impossible, as you'll have no idea how to tackle the math. But you will definitely learn, even if you only keep up until that point in the course.I might also suggest googling "MIT 6.002x study groups" and finding either a local or online group. Other students can be a better resource than you might think. It often turns out that what is difficult for you, is easy for others. While other topics will be easy for you, and difficult for others. So, you end up being able to help each other out.I had a difficult first year in college. I had gone to a rather small high school, that just didn't offer the level of math that most of the other students in my highly competitive college had completed. So, the calculus classes went very quickly, and were graded on a curve, so I just wasn't able to keep up. I barely got acceptable grades, but they left me with not understanding enough, that the engineering classes soon to follow were too difficult as I struggled with both the math and the engineering at the same time. I left the school and went to a community college for a semester. I talked with the Calculus professor at the community college about what I knew, and how to get going as quickly as possible, to get back on track. He gave me a short verbal test, and then recommended that I take 3 Calculus classes at the same time, the ones meant to be taken sequentially! I thought he was crazy, but he convinced me that I could do it. He was right.I will never forget his analogy... College to a student is like a drinking fountain. You wish to walk up to the fountain, and take a drink of a specific topic. The problem is that the student doesn't understand all the things they need to have a foundation in to drink from the fountain. So, it turns out the stream of water is more like a fire hose on full blast, and you are drowning in the stream of water being blast into your mouth. The trick is to drink fast, and not drown.So, get what you can from the course, and you'll be better for it. If you've learned something at the end, it was a success! Those who find success, have many failures!

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 08:03:20 am
content: Mint, I suggest you take FenderBender's advice. I too did the "WTF is this!?!?" at first. Now, rereading those materials again they look so simple. I even look at my old notes and I kind of a shame that i even bother writing something so trivial down.Like he said, you can read the book thinking you understand. Then read some time later and you have your epiphany. Then you'll realize how clueless you were.

author: Mint.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 08:26:40 am
content: I am working my way through MITx slowly. I will and have made some sacrifices! I guess its all going to be worth it, because afterwards I can boast that I have an EE degreeAnyways, I guess why I'm struggling is that I'm used to slowly receiving information and its a bit overwhelming when they through all they got at you and also I am not too familiar with Calculus and Differential Equations, but I am learning it online!

author: thilo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 08:41:17 am
content: You don't have to keep up with the course, it's not that the online degree is worth anything. Just work through the material at your pace.When you're doing this on you're own time and as a hobby it should be fun!

author: Mint.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 09:10:54 am
content: Quote from: thilo on March 24, 2012, 08:41:17 amWell you get a certificate, thats gotta be worth something!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 09:35:44 am
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 24, 2012, 03:40:08 amQuote from: Mint. on March 24, 2012, 08:26:40 amI think you are experiencing a bit of what college or university is like. It can be a shock encountering such an environment after high school, where the teaching pace and learning expectations are entirely different.It might help you to identify where you are struggling: is it a lack of assumed material like calculus that the course expects you to know already, or is it simply that the material seems too advanced and complex to absorb? Missing background material like calculus you can try to catch up on as you are doing, but if the subject matter just seems too advanced and confusing it may mean you are trying to study the material before you are ready for it. Normally someone taking that course would already have spent a few years studying foundation courses before enrolling.The best advice is probably to stick at it, because you have nothing really to lose. Even if you don't manage to pass the course you will at least get something out of it.(About your mention above of an EE degree: you understand of course that this is not a whole EE degree? This course is only one small part of years of study that would lead to a complete EE degree.)

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 11:14:41 am
content: Hi Mint,I'm doing the MIT course alongside my Mech Eng degree to broaden my knowledge and to try and ensure I don't work in heating duct design for the rest of my lifeThe course is fairly typical of the workload of my other engineering subjects. I'm back as a mature age student and I would have to say I'm working harder now than I ever did in industry (but enjoying it more!).For my degree all our exams cover two semesters, so as I am now starting to revise I have to look at things we learned back in September. The point of all this is to say that engineering courses build up incrementally, and things that I struggled with in first semester I'm now going back to and finding quite easy.If you are worriedlearningas opposed to getting a super grade, then don't stress if you don't understand the first time. If you have to leave something for a little while to keep up, thats fine just make a note somewhere to come back to it.I'd say don't sweat the homework scores too much, just do your best and be methodical about it - take and save your notes, etc. It may be that you write something down (not understanding) that you don't come back to for a few years and then have your "ah hah!" moment that Agarwal keeps talking about. If that happens, then its a win regardless of what score you get.Good luck!

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 11:20:16 am
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 24, 2012, 09:10:54 amIt doesn't make you an EE, not by several miles. Potential employers won't have heard of the particular course, won't confuse it with a real EE degree, diploma, BS, MS, or whatever an engineering degree is called in your country. The value is in what you learn for yourself.Not to long ago we had a discussion in the forum about self-styled engineers. A lot of people popped up claiming they are engineers because they decided to call themselves engineers. You start to get an idea why this pisses off those with a real degree, who worked really hard at a uni to get it. You are taking one course. Full time EE students take several in parallel, for several years.So forget about the certificate. Do you want to learn the stuff or not? If you want it badly enough, go back to studying the material now. Stop, for example, spending your time reading this forum.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 11:34:44 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 24, 2012, 11:20:16 amAlthough I agree that this certificate is probably not worth more than the paper you printed it on, it does show a potential employer that you're motivated to go out and learn about electronics.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 01:46:56 pm
content: Quote from: alm on March 24, 2012, 11:34:44 amIf the the potential employer can make sense of it.If they can't then in the best case they ignore it, in the worst case they think it is from some diploma mill.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 02:39:53 pm
content: They've already stated that the certificate from this first trial run will basically just be a recognition of completing the trial. It won't be any officially backed certification or guarantee of competence. In any case, it certainly wouldn't hurt to have it on your resume as something you've done.In reality, they've have no methods to validate your identity or that you are in fact the one completing the work. After this trial they should have the actual teaching part of the system working well, and then they can focus on security and proper accreditation. It's best to treat this as a learning opportunity rather than anything serious.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 02:45:36 pm
content: Quote from: metalphreak on March 24, 2012, 02:39:53 pmAgreed. I'll be putting it in the "special interest" section of my CV, assuming I pass...What has caught employers eyes looking for summer work is a portfolio of my designs rather than anything on my CV.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 02:57:41 pm
content: Quote6002.x certainly shouldn't be confused with "a real EE degree" because itisn't- it is genuinely (the same as) a part of such a degree though. At 10 weeks at 10 hours per week an under-graduate student should be taking two or three such modules per term times three terms times three years to earn a degree, so logically it should get you enough credits for about 5% of an EE degree.I think you should be doing 6002.x for a bit of fun or maybe to see if you can cope with degree-level studies if your background isn't that of a typical under-graduate. I'm doing it just for the personal interest - so far it's been fun and a bit educational which is fine by me. A few spots where I've gone "hmm, really need to brush up on the calculus for that one" or "hmm, knew I should have done a bit more physics" but I googled the physics and already knew the practical results of the calculus - e.g peak voltage is sqrt(2)*RMS voltage for a sine wave, so I just used those results and I'll revise a bit of basic calculus when I have chance.The OP certainly shouldn't be worried about using resources outside the course material though - that's what learning is all about.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 03:44:45 pm
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 24, 2012, 06:47:12 amI question the legitimacy of this method, though. Do people learn more by cramming everything in quickly? I would suggest that a slower, more thorough approach results in better knowledge.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 04:31:39 pm
content: Quote from: MikeK on March 24, 2012, 03:44:45 pmDo you want instead spend ten years at Uni?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 05:18:26 pm
content: I downloaded all the MIT videos of Agarwal's course some years ago to see how things have changed since I was in school. In takes a while to finish 20+ videos, each about 1 hour long.http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-002-circuits-and-electronics-spring-2007/video-lectures/I don't know how both compare, but if they are similar, there isn't enough material there to design practical circuits.Although they try to be practical, there is still much theory in discussions [ which Agarwal et. al. allude to may be dispensed with as one builds 'intuition' ] which maybe a turn off or too abstract, as inevitably someone brings up Maxwell's equations.This course is more like a free sample taste of a degreed EE course, in case you are thinking of majoring in EE. For time spent, you'll get more practical information from Horowitz and Hill or the pdf Analog Secrets.http://www.logbook.freeserve.co.uk/seekrets/

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 07:27:46 pm
content: I don't think AoE and Analog Seekrets would serve the same purpose as MIT 6.002. The MIT course is clearly aimed at teaching the basics of electronic circuits to someone with no prior EE experience (but a fairly solid grounding in math and physics), and assumes that most of the material will be dealt with in detail in subsequent courses. The introduction of Analog Seekrets explicitly states that a reader should have a decent (eg. undergrad EE level) understanding of the material, it makes no effort to talk about analyzing resistor networks, parallel resistances or how transistors work. AoE does, but the first chapter is not generally considered a good introduction unless one is already familiar with the material. From what I remember its treatment of Thevenin and Norton equivalent circuits is very terse, for example.Of course the MIT course lacks much of the practical information. From the frequent complaints about education, it appears that many BSEE graduates are unable to design real circuits after four years of this. And this is basically their first EE course after the required math and physics courses. The demo where he blows up a vegetable, to show the limitations of abstractions, is probably as close as it gets to the real world. Much of the practical information is generally taught in the lab sessions, something that would be hard to do in an online course.In my mind you need both an understanding of the basics, either via the MIT course or one of the books aimed at beginners, and practical information from AoE and/or Analog Seekrets so you know which resistor to pick and how to read a datasheet. The lack of practical information in university courses is the reason why those books were written, the intent was not to replace these courses.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 07:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 24, 2012, 04:31:39 pmThe medical profession is far worse - as a registrar you spend 18-20 hour days working 6-7 days a week. Its a saturation approach. Personally I think the right idea is to get you out of uni as fast as possible thinking the right way, e.g. with a good general base and the ability to learn more about what you don't understand on your own. Then you can work out how things actually work in the real world.Quote from: saturation on March 24, 2012, 05:18:26 pmThe problem with "just reading" is that you will naturally focus on the things you are interested in / understand, often this means that key "boring" fundamentals are ignored. If you are doing the degree "right" you should be supplementing the formal part by reading the relevant parts of Horowitz, Agarwal etc.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 07:49:12 pm
content: I think few people really "understand" all of the new material they are taught at university the first time they encounter it. Some of it makes sense, and some of it seems complicated and confusing. Eventually you learn to put the confusing stuff to one side for a while, and periodically come back and review it. Eventually it will "click" and you will wonder why you found it so hard.A good example for me was when I was studying A level mathematics in England. One of the optional modules was in numerical methods and the numerical integration of differential equations. It was really simple stuff, basically applying explicit Euler to simple first order ODEs. But I absolutely could not "get" it and it all seemed like gobbledygook. Now of course I look back and wonder what was wrong with me. I think the problem was that I had not at the time appreciated exactly what a differential equation was, and what it represented. Without that deeper understanding I couldn't see the purpose behind what we were doing and it therefore I couldn't get my head round it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 07:52:26 pm
content: So I'm thinking of (belatedly) signing up for this course. I'd have to catch up a bit from the past few weeks.Could those of you doing it summarize what the format is? I'm guessing a 1 hr video lecture per week, some written notes, and some exercises to review the material? If you knew what you were doing, would it take the whole 10 hours per week they suggest?

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2012, 08:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 24, 2012, 07:52:26 pmI think you can still register although you would have missed the deadline for a couple of homework/lab submissions. Your worst two scores are ignored so it wouldn't be the end of the world.Basically there are two 1- 1.5 hr lecture sequences each week with a bunch of 6-10 minute videos and some sample exercises. The videos are normally a powerpoint presentation with Agarwal lecturing over the top and drawing on the screen. You can watch them at 1.5 speed which is what I normally do (slowing down the speed if I need something a bit more slowly). Then each week there is a 3-4 question homework set and a circuit simulation lab. Questions are normally given through a circuit diagram, some notes and then a bunch of text boxes where you enter a formula or a numerical answer. You can click "check answers" to see if you got it right and even for homework sets keep going until you get an answer you are happy with. There will be a mid semester exam in wk 8 (week 4 starts on Monday) and an end of semester exam a month after that. Problems and lectures come out a week in advance - e.g. week 4 was released in week 3.The textbook is online (pretty annoying format clicking each time you want to turn the page rather than scrolling)... and you are given recommended readings to do in your own time. There are some optional tutorial questions but I haven't had time to do any of those yet - not required but will be good for understanding.Re time taken - I probably spend 6-8 hours a week on it, but spread out as this is effectively a "ninth module" for me so I get on to it when I have a gap in between other work.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2012, 01:21:29 am
content: Quote from: harnon on March 24, 2012, 02:45:36 pmI am starting to collect good schematics and prototypes and storing them before I lose them or take the parts from them.

author: jzzsxm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 25, 2012, 03:46:34 am
content: Having the certificate of completion for this class will in no way indicate that you have an eecs degree BUT it will indicate that you have done more than self-teaching yourself. It should probably be weighed equivalently to taking a class at Art of Problem Solving or night classes at a community college. I'm not trying to compare MIT to a community college but you also shouldn't compare 6.002x to a "degree" or even a real-life class at MIT.I'm taking 6.002x as a recent MIT grad who didn't have enough time to take the electronics classes I would have liked. I'm enjoying comparing and contrasting this class to real classes and there are certainly similarities and differences. Let me share what I've noticed thus far:SimilaritiesThe material itself is exactly what you'd find in a typical freshman/sophomore level MIT class. Watching through the lecture videos reminds me a lot of sitting through similar lectures early on in my MIT experience.The number of problem sets/labs/exams is roughly similar. It varies from class to class, and I'd say that 6.002x actually has more PSETs than usual, but it compensates by dropping 2 of them, also a relatively common practice (although dropping 1 is more common)Lectures do not cover information directly applicable to solving PSET problems. This may come as a surprise to non-MIT students, but the basic format for most every lecture-based class is that lectures derive and prove the main principles and PSETs test your application. Don't expect a lot of example problems in lecture but do expect to have to derive solutions to most of your PSET problems yourself. This is one of the primary reasons MIT is so difficult. It'd be far easier for the lecture to cover what equations to use and how to solve the problems but what MIT expects is for you to fully and deeply understand the underlying principles. It figures with a complete knowledge of the background mathematics that you'll be able to work out the "trivial" real-world PSET problems. It can lead to frustration but results in a much broader depth of knowledge.This class will not teach you how to build an awesome Arduino project. MIT classes are for engineering students, not hackers. In this class you're going to learn the math, the physics, and the principles behind circuits. If you want to build a robot or something similar, Instructables or specialized books will probably be more useful. In all likelihood if you complete this course you will feel a sense of accomplishment for concluding something that took a great deal of effort and you will feel filled with a new understanding of circuitry, but you will have no idea how to solder together a bunch of components and build an awesome circuit that lights up if you clap your hands.DifferencesGetting 100% on PSETs/Labs is INFINITELY easier in 6.002x. I wasshockedthat you could "check" your answers until they were all correct. This is absolutely not how it works at MIT. You do the PSET, you submit it, you see what you got. There's NEVER guess and check. This is the most striking departure from typical MIT classes that 6.002x has.In 6.002x you can work ahead. Almost never (never in my experience) can you work ahead in actual MIT courses. You get your new PSET when you hand in your old PSET.You aren't taking any other classes. MIT students usually take 4-5 classes a semester and so are responsible for 4-5 PSETs a week. I'm finding it far easier to manage a single 6.002x PSET, despite working full time, than 4 PSETs at MIT.You aren't trapped in lecture. I consider this a downside to 6.002x. The only thing that kept me paying attention in lecture was that I was trapped there. Now, with YouTube videos, I spend more time on Reddit than listening to lecture, which is dangerous. The 1.5x speed is nice though.It doesn't matter. Worst case scenario for 6.002x is that you just don't finish. It doesn't matter. It doesn't go on a transcript and you didn't waste tuition money on it. Part of the stress at MIT is knowing that you must pass/do well in certain classes in order to take others or to get into grad school/graduate. There's none of this stress with 6.002x, which is very nice.Overall, I'd remember that this IS an MIT class. It's a digital version, but it will cover the same material as an entry level sophomore class and the PSETs/Exams will likely be as difficult. I've seen students sobbing at the end of exams, so don't think that this will be a quick online class that'll let you stamp "MIT" onto your resume. You're likely going to have to put in some effort, especially if you don't have the recommended background. MIT won't reduce the difficulty of its classes just because it's offering them online. It will be hard, it will take time, and you may not succeed.That being said, if you really do want to begin building the foundations of a more-than-electronics-tinkerer knowledge of circuitry, this class will be an excellent start. Good luck to you, and remember, nobody is making you take it, and you should only push through if you feel that what it has to offer is what you'd like to gain. If not, then definitely explore other sources of knowledge.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2012, 09:05:52 am
content: QuoteYou can only check your answers on the practice questions, not the homework. I actually find that useful as I've often found myself making errors in sign (especially voltages) or "simple" algebraic manipulations (I last did any algebra this hard 25+ years ago so like the calculus it'srusty) and knowing what the answer is makes me work harder to figure out how to arrive at the correct solution.Admittedly I sometimes check the first few answers to make sure I'm on the right track before filling in the later ones.There's a "reset" on the homework but I've not tried it. So far I've just carefully checked my answers on paper before submitting them.Edit: But I agree, so far 100% seemstooachievable.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2012, 10:03:43 am
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 25, 2012, 09:05:52 amErrm... Homework problems don't have the "show answer" button but you can just keep hitting check answer until you get the little green tick.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2012, 01:57:35 pm
content: Quote from: harnon on March 25, 2012, 10:03:43 amOK I did mean that the homework doesn't have "show answer", but unless you're prepared to feed in all possibilities until you get everything ticked you're going to have to at least have figured out roughly how to arrive at the answer.The most obvious fix would be simply to count only the first submission.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2012, 04:04:11 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 25, 2012, 01:57:35 pmAh cool. Yeah I suppose if you really wanted 100% on the homework without doing any work, you could make build a script to enter numbers progressively until you get a tick

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2012, 06:03:06 am
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 24, 2012, 03:40:08 amI would submit,having seen some of the stuff on another thread,that learning Electronics by doing this course is like learning to walk by taking part in the "City to Surf Fun Run"!It seems to me,there are two extremes here:If you already have a fair knowledge of Electronics ,have an average facility with Mathematics,& can suppress your critical faculties,you should do OK.If you have zero knowledge of Electronics,& really good Mathematics skills,you should do all right.(Whether you come out the other end with any useful real world Electronics skills is another question).If you are a beginner,with great interest,a beginner's level of knowledge,& lower than average Math skills,you will find it heavy going!I suggest,get what you can out of it,but don't be broken hearted if you don't do well.Later on,you may be doing a Degree or whatever, at a local Uni,& you may suddenly recognise some of the stuff,& think,"That'swhat the MIT bloke was on about!"Meantime,if you were to do an Electronics course at TAFE,you will have a marketable qualification,& a more solid basis for further study later.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2012, 06:30:18 am
content: I'm watching through the 6.002 lectures on the MIT OCW site. In many ways it is quite strange as it is forcing a particular view of the world and pretending the students don't already know a lot of stuff until it is introduced in later lectures (stuff like what a diode or capacitor is, or what binary is, or how to represent numbers in binary, dumb stuff like that). What it is really doing is making people "unlearn" stuff, in order that they can relearn it an a very formal and disciplined way. It is a bit like your tennis coach teaching you to forget everything you thought you knew about how to play tennis so you can be taught again how to play the game properly.As I said it feels a bit strange, but I think there is some method to it. If you persevere you are going to be forced to learn things in a very structured and cohesive way, and that knowledge will be more useful to you when you come out of it. You can get the same result with years of experience, but in a teaching environment they are trying to compress that down into a much shorter time.By participating in some of the discussions in the other threads I am being prompted to learn things that I didn't have much facility with before, and I have found that quite stimulating. It's a vital skill to learn how to tease apart a seemingly complex problem and see it in a simpler way. The whole gist of 6.002 is building a kit of tools to look at complex problems and simplify them down into easier problems to solve by abstracting away the unnecessary detail. The art of engineering is learning how to strip away the parts that don't matter, to focus on the parts that do matter, and to know how to tell the difference.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2012, 06:54:01 am
content: That's what I meant by "suppress your critical faculties".It is very easy to look at it from another point of view & say "That's silly!"when they use a different symbolism to that which we were brought up on.I have had the experience of having to explain things which I understood intuitively to supposedly higher educated people who had to have things described in exactly the right way or they couldn't comprehend them.I sometimes wonder if such people are the result of 'structured" learning,or if they were born that way.A person who can understand things without the"structure" will probably do worse in such a course than those with less imagination,but they will do OK,& be more useful in the real world .

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2012, 07:36:13 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 26, 2012, 06:54:01 amI think it's more about the person than the teaching method.A keyword I have been seeing over and again in the videos is "intuition". The message has been that, "any fool can calculate it by following the rules, but you must learn how to see the answer by inspection and write it down directly".I happen to think that intuition is not magic or some special skill, it is the result of deep learning. You can only see through the smoke and see what's really there if you have a really good understanding inside your head.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2012, 08:09:33 am
content: It's just that some concepts,such as phase relationships seem to be easy to visualise to some,but others need the Mathematical proof.These latter people do seem to be able to"visualise"each concept once it is "proven", just as well as the former group,so that fits well with your remarks.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2012, 02:30:55 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 26, 2012, 08:09:33 amFor those who rely heavily on mathematical proof as a means of "visualizing" some abstraction, I think the issue comes down to trust. If some natural phenomena is well approximated by mathematical abstraction, then the "gotchas" arise less often and more than the obvious can typically be determined.Take for example the simple qualitative description of capacitors acting as open at DC and short at AC. Intuition tells us that although this description is par and easy enough to visualize, capacitors aren't quite as trivial; an accurate mathematical approximation aids to solidify that gray area when questions like, "Will any AC signal suffice or is there some frequency threshold?" or "What happens if I give this signal to the capacitor?" Furthermore, mathematical abstractions become critically important when dealing with things that can't be so easily verified in an empirical setting, e.g. when designing or trying to understand phenomena on the microscopic scale.In contrast, sometimes mathematical descriptions can be painfully difficult to grasp, e.g. transcendental integral expression for error tracking in a Costas loop; in these cases, math is better suited as a means of inspiring clear "intuition" and identifying theoretical limitations once, then it's tucked away in the toolbox and only brought out when absolutely necessary.In short, the mathematically inclined (a.k.a. anal retentive academics (such as myself)) tend to question everything and trust nothing until a mathematical proof backed by sound reason is demonstrated at a minimum.

author: Mint.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 07:31:37 am
content: After 4 weeks of hard work and progress ,Unfortunately I have made the decision that I am going to drop out of this course. In my opinion it is far too complicated and confusing for me to continue, the math in week 4 is far to advanced and is beyond my understanding. In my honest opinion, I least enjoyed this course. It was absolute junk and a complete mess. Here are a few reasons why:- Content was poorly explained and I did not understand how one value was linked to another and how it related to the circuit.- The questions had no logical order.- The questions in the homework and lab very slightly only relate to the content of the week.- The video's are bad and they are just repetitive from one to another.- The book contains complex mathematics in a attempt to explain the circuit, however it doesn't do it very well and it does not help a lot.- Not enough proper explanations of how to solve circuits.- Questions vary too much from one to another and just when you think you understand something another question throws you off balance because it doesn't relate to the previous.- Far too many assumptions are made by Mr. Argawal. When he attempts to explain many aspects.- The content in the video is too technical for some people and I personally do not see a need for technical terms when you are trying to teach somebody something new, maybe afterwards after they know how to solve the problem then you can show them how in looks in technical term and note the differences, but before, it just demotivates people.- Extremely de-motivational and you do not enjoy what you are doing.- AS A QUICK SUMMARY: Poorly explained with many assumptions being made, make this course completely useless for people who are trying to learn electronics. There is no flow from one lecture to another and it just jumps back and forth. I would not recommend this course to my friends.A few positives also:- Good attempt at online education.- The community is excellent and they are all ready to help!- I learn't a fair bit from my mistakes on this course.- Now I know I don't want to study at MIT.I'm guessing this is what all universities are like and that I got to experience the bitter reality first hand. Feels good that I am not in uni at the moment. Got a few more years before it comes around. I also know that I should foresee this as a big opportunity, however I realise that I am just far too young and ignorant to notice that.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 07:59:32 am
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 27, 2012, 07:31:37 amWell, the thing is, you are not qualified to judge the course.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 08:05:34 am
content: Hi Mint,Sorry to hear your experience was a bit demoralising. Is worth keeping in mind that this is a second year university course not a beginners electronics course. Therefore a bunch of first year maths, physics etc are assumed.If you don't have these it will definitely be more difficult but of course if you are doing the full degree the things he glosses over will be revision from earlier subjects.Good luck - university is often a challenge but as a structured program it's normally set up so you can pass (with a bit of work)!

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 01:06:42 pm
content: I didn't take the course so I can't be a judge for how effective it is at teaching electronics. I did, however, watch the 6.002x videos when they first hit the web several years ago. This was back when MIT 'broke the mold' by posting their courses online.I have to say that I was very unimpressed. I expected much better lectures from MIT. You might say the noise to signal ratio was very high. Speaking of noise, I remember one lecture where the professor brought in an electric chainsaw. He was demonstrating how they could recover a differential signal from all the noise. Nice theater but very little actual substance. I got the impression that the real lessons were being learned in the labs. At least I hope they were considering what a student pays to attend MIT.Sorry MIT but a person would get a much better education in electronics from their local technical college then what was taught in this particular class.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 01:58:08 pm
content: It's a first year level introductory unit. It's only meant to teach you the very basics in a single semester, not an entire electronics degree. So far the content has been quite easy for me, but I'm in my final year of university so it is all stuff i've already done before. In terms of content covered, it's on par with a first year first semester unit I did at University (4units per semester, 2 semesters per year).It does assume you've done sufficient previous study otherwise you will find it difficult. Yr12 physics and calculus at a minimum.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 01:59:06 pm
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 27, 2012, 07:31:37 amYes, you got to experience a taste of the "real thing", but don't be too disheartened. Based on your comment of a few more years before university comes around, what is your current age? Is it about 15 or so? If that is the case, your experience is no different than would be expected of almost anyone of your age. A university course like that assumes a lot of prior knowledge, both in later high school and foundation courses at the first year of university. There are prerequisites for this course, and those prerequisites are not to be considered optional.I can assure you that a lot will change in three or four more years, and you will be more prepared for such a course by then.One thing you have discovered that university teaching is different from high school teaching. In high school they are mainly teaching you how to pass tests. At a university they are trying to teach you how to learn and understand complex subject matter. In a university course you are expected to read books, to research things that are not told in lectures, and to do lots (and lots!) of tutorial exercises and labs to reinforce your knowledge.I understand how mathematics could be a killer for you. Mathematics is a toolkit for solving problems. If you have not covered that material in your studies yet, you will be trying to tackle problems without the appropriate tools. That is going to be nearly impossible.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 03:55:50 pm
content: Quote from: metalphreak on March 27, 2012, 01:58:08 pmThe MIT websitewould suggest otherwise (unless I'm misreading it) as there are maths and physics prerequisites with their own prerequisites which would be impossible to do in one semester.As far as the level of maths knowledge, based on my current studies its used a few concepts from 1st year eng maths - i.e. Maclaurin/Taylor expansions which I didn't do at high school. Of course the US system is probably a bit different...EDIT: Read in conjunction withthis roadmapit confirms its a 2nd year subject.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 04:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: harnon on March 27, 2012, 03:55:50 pmI remember doing that at A level (I think), but it was a long time ago. Also I took A level Further Maths and remembering what was in Maths and what was in Further Maths gets a bit fuzzy now...

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 04:21:43 pm
content: I don't see why so many people are mentioning calculus being required for this course... has someone ran into a problem yet that actually requires any form of math other than basic arithmatic? I did the first two assignements/labs in ten minutes each without doing any calculus? Are you guys just worrying that the course will get harder?

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 04:27:52 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 27, 2012, 04:17:46 pmI did VCE in Australia and it wasn't on the "Maths Methods" syllabus. It may have been in "Specialist Maths" but I wagged that.Most of the British students I'm currently doing my mech eng course with haven't done any Maclaurin before.Quote from: olsenn on March 27, 2012, 04:21:43 pmIt was used to derive some of the relationships in lec 7 from memory but no I haven't had to do too much calculus yet. The point is more that if you haven't done any of this sort of Maths before then it will make understanding a little bit harder as Mint has described.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 04:37:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mint. on March 27, 2012, 07:31:37 amThat may very well be true. This is not actually an electronics course, it is an engineering course. If you do have the required prerequisites under your belt and you want an introduction to some basic engineering principles this course would serve you well. But if you want an introduction to electronics in a more practical way, then this is not what you need.It is clearly mentioned in the course prerequisites that you need to have reached at least first year college level in mathematics and physics, so if that part of your education still lies ahead of you it should not come as a big surprise that this course seems too difficult.

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2012, 08:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: olsenn on March 27, 2012, 04:21:43 pmYes. In Week 4 you have to use calculus.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 12:39:49 am
content: Now that calculus is being used I'm feeling more strained in doing the coursework. I had college calculus about 26 years ago and remember almost none of it. Fortunately, I've been watching the MIT OCW Calculus lectures, which has helped a little.What I like about 6.002x is that some things that used to be mysterious to me are now making sense. How the radio guys take a transistor and make a transmitter out of it still astounds me.For me, I'll only give up if it becomes an issue of not having enough time.

author: bfritz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 01:50:57 am
content: Don't worry, the Calculus and higher math is coming. I would guess that before the end of the course, you will be doing s-domain analysis, with Fourier and Laplace transforms. You'll be tearin your hair out by then, if you still have any left.Ah College, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times!

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 07:19:15 am
content: QuoteI'm in the same boat - I probably did calculus to the required level but 30 years ago so I can only remember the most basic of stuff. As I got off to a late start with the course I'm just finishing off week 3 so I'll see if I survive the week 4 stuff soon. Unfortunately it has corresponded with being busier generally so this might be a challenge!The OCW stuff sounds like it might be useful.

author: LEECH666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 08:35:17 am
content: Is it still possible to join MITx 6.002x course at this point?Might be interesting. I tried to look it up in the FAQ but it doesn't really answer that question.

author: Mint.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 09:27:24 am
content: Yes, your two lowest scores for both lab and homework are dropped and if I am correct week 2 is due by the end of this weekend. So you are not too late.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 09:32:25 am
content: Weekthreeis due this W/E (April 1) so if you get in quickly you could get 100% even with two week's labs and homework missed - after that you could probably still pass but it won't be mathematically possible to achieve 100%

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 09:48:50 am
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 29, 2012, 07:19:15 amThere are also a zillion other resources out there, Calculus I by Dawkins is quite good:http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/pdf/CalcI/CalcI_Complete.pdfAlso, if you only need calculus as a tool and you don't have to pass any math exams, you can save a lot of time by letting an advanced calculator do the job for you. If you don't feel like buying a calculator here is a free online resource:http://www.wolframalpha.com/examples/Calculus.htmlI'm sure people can give you much more tips to fight with calculus, but this should better be done in a seperate thread.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 10:10:22 am
content: Quote from: Blofeld on March 29, 2012, 09:48:50 amUsing an advanced calculator as a means of "compensating" for deficiency in understanding is the single biggest fail that I see amongst engineering students at my uni. The most important part of using math as a tool is actually understanding the concepts prior to using a calculator to weed out the monotony of repetition or finding a numerical sol'n. Furthermore, one is often found stranded in the middle of shit creek without a paddle when attempting to find a sol'n to a symbolic problem using a calculator.Any calculus used in this course will be relatively trivial. It behooves the student to take the time to review what was highlighted as a necessary prerequisite from the onset.

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 03:00:19 pm
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 29, 2012, 10:10:22 amNot true. On Week 5 Homework there is some treaky derivative beast. Had to use Wolfram Mathematica to deal with it.

author: jgbena
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 08:13:51 pm
content: I am also taking this course although I have to say that I am unaware of any "certificate" as the initiator of this thread mentioned. I always thought that all MIT OCW courses were no credit, no certificates of completion. Did I miss something?

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 08:21:31 pm
content: jgbena, I recall that the certificate was an online certificate. Pretty much the same as nothing. Heck, when you get your certificate, you can email us all a copy.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2012, 10:09:39 pm
content: Quote from: jgbena on March 29, 2012, 08:13:51 pmThe certificate is just a certificate of completion. It has no value, other than pride in accomplishment.Technically, I think 6.002x is not MIT OCW. The OCW 6.002 stuff is freely available, but 6.002X is an enrolled and graded course.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2012, 12:44:58 am
content: Quote from: aluck on March 29, 2012, 03:00:19 pmThere are no tricky derivatives. Only tricky integrals

author: Greg323i
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2012, 04:57:58 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 29, 2012, 10:10:22 amI agree with this 100%!I once tutored my boss' daughter in algebra and every time she hit a snag she wanted to pull out the calculator and I wouldn't let her. I kept telling her that if she can't work out the equation then she'll have no idea what numbers to plug in to the calculator. I thought I was being hard on her sometimes, but she did very well in the semester that I tutored her and she did well in the next semester that I didn't tutor her.I admit that I've looked for shortcuts to get the homeworks turned in, but then I went back to the problems and made sure I understood what was going on with it. I still need to review some of it.

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2012, 08:37:47 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 30, 2012, 12:44:58 amTrue, if you remember how to get a derivative of a function of a function. I thought I did.

author: bruce273
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2012, 07:54:37 pm
content: This looks like a fairly normal EE course for university although I do not remember there being so much focus on op amps in mine. However normally prerequisites for these courses is a bit of physics and maths which at least where I study is taught seperatly in the first semester. Some of the basic physics needed will be on this websitehttp://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2012, 09:35:51 pm
content: Quote from: aluck on March 30, 2012, 08:37:47 amYou mean chain rule?

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2012, 11:40:17 pm
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 30, 2012, 09:35:51 pmYep. Mental block.

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 04:32:52 am
content: A good trait for an engineer is to be resourceful. If it means that you need to use wolfram alpha to demonstrate an entire problem to help you understand, so be it. Be honest with yourself; knowing what you don't understand is hugely important.Unfortunately, there becomes less public information as the difficulty climbs. There was almost no online material for my signals and systems course this past semester. I am a BSEE junior.There are literally thousands of resources for basic calculus and electronics online. Don't give up!

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 05:22:11 am
content: Before their system went to complete shit,I used to solve many a academic engineering problem on Cramster, signals and systems included. Then I came to the realization that people were essentially using the system as a means of having others solve their homework problems for free (evidenced by the same recurring problems posted within days or even hours of each other), and Cramster's reward system just wasn't worth the effort and moral compromise...let alone fiddling with their shit GUI and failure to incorporate a TeX interpreter for problem solvers.EDIT: What's beyond laughable is how people are posting problems from 6.002x in the EE section of Cramster. It's absolutely pathetic, really. Even with a completely free and voluntary program with nothing but time to lose, we still find that worthless, sorry ass individuals who will exploit every opportunity to cheat abound like flies on shit.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 10:25:11 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 31, 2012, 05:22:11 amWhat else to expect when the home pages saysQuotein big letters?-QuoteMaybe cheating is addictive or cheating is a way of life for some. I have become extremely wary of degrees from some countries.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 12:07:33 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 31, 2012, 10:25:11 amThere's a clear distinction between offering homework help and simply producing a valid sol'n. The former can be satisfied without divulging a valid sol'n, the latter without any explanation whatsoever. Guess which of the two enjoys overwhelming popularity.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 04:22:42 pm
content: I must admit, it has come as a bit of a shock to me just how much maths I have forgotten. When I was 18 I would have breezed through it. I look at the maths and think "oh that's easy" and then grind to a halt when anything vaguely calculus related is encountered. The electronics / physics part of it is a walk in the park, and it frustrates me that Prof Agarwal seems to go through simple concepts three or four times, whilst missing out big chunks. The big problem there is that the course is inherently sequential, so if you don't understand a problem then it really holds you back in the subsequent parts. However, that is a problem inherent in me rather than this course in particular.This highlights the weakness in taking a conventional course (albeit at a high level) and transferring it to a different medium. 6.002 and 6.002x are, at their core, the book "Foundations of Analog and Digital Electronic Circuits" with occasional lectures. This is fine when there is a support network there, both formal and informal. At the moment, all there is is the equivalent of post-it notes on a door. Most of these are requests for explicit answers, or from people who don't even know people called Volta, Ampere or Watt even existed.If MIT are to continue supplying this course, then I think it needs to change quite a lot. Right now, it is just Prof Agarwal writing down slides as he would give a lecture. This imposes the constraint of a much smaller writing area (which rapidly gets messy and unclear) and a rather muffled microphone. A high quality course should have pre-prepared slides without over-writing, unreadable notes and non-linear flow. It should also cover more of the subject. If we are to say to a student "go read the book" then what is the purpose of the online course?Sure, if MIT want to continue with their ivory tower then continue as it is right now, keeping electronic engineering "secret" and mystical is in my interests. I have no problem with that. It is very similar to how I was educated, and has been in place for centuries. But 6.002x is not a course in the physical world. Far more must be made of the opportunity which the Internet delivers. Maybe take a leaf out of the Open University's book and deliver the course over a much longer period (say 6 months), and add much more backup material.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 04:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on March 31, 2012, 04:22:42 pmI'm sure some of us would be more than happy to help out in this forum. I've been a little surprised more questions have not been posted here about tutorial problems. I found the example problems that have been discussed here to be quite stimulating as it has prompted it me to research and learn the theory myself in the process of replying.

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 04:44:42 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on March 31, 2012, 04:22:42 pmGuys in "Discussioins" section are very helpful. Do consider visiting it once in a while.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 05:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on March 31, 2012, 04:22:42 pmOof, yes, it definitely brought home to me how rusty my maths was, and it's only eleven years since I took a pair of maths A levels! Thankfully it's coming back quickly enough after getting back into the swing of things, with the occasional quick trip to Google or Wolfram Alpha to make sure what I've remembered isn't complete nonsense...

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 08:07:28 pm
content: Is it too late to participate? It would be good practice for me.

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2012, 09:00:52 pm
content: Quote from: Randall W. Lott on March 31, 2012, 08:07:28 pmNo, it's not. You are 3 weeks off schedule, so you wouldn't get A grade certificate. Only B's are left, sorry, dude.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 01:54:15 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on March 31, 2012, 05:22:11 amWeek 5 math is pretty challenging. I imagine it will leave many in the dust.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 02:42:43 am
content: Quote from: MikeK on April 01, 2012, 01:54:15 amWhat kind of math are we talking about?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 03:12:50 am
content: Ha!Quoting Agarwal: (just watching in Lecture 11 at 23m35s)Engineering is about building useful systems. Engineering is not about showing off with math, or saying, "man, I'm really cool in math", so engineering is about building useful systems, and you want to find the simplest, easiest, cheapest way to get there. Unlike deep theories of math and theory and so on, the beauty is in the simplicity. So the aesthetics are in how simple can we make things and still get to where we want to be. All through the course what you will be seeing happening again and again and again is whenever things begin to get too grovelly in terms of math we'll step back and say, "Whoops! We're engineers, remember, let's find a much simpler way to do it and use intuition." So time and time and time again, I'm going to take you down a simpler path where you can solve things by inspection, by pure intuition.

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 03:13:39 am
content: Is it solving transient AC circuits using differential equations with Laplace Transforms?I just signed up. I don't care about certificates, I just want learn something that I may have missed in my past courses.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 03:24:59 am
content: I learned about Laplace transforms in 1980 and I have never needed them since. It might be fun to revisit an old acquaintance.The reason I have never revisited them is that my world is fundamentally non-linear. Linear systems are a nice simplification, but sadly they don't fit very well in my particular space.Engineers try really hard to look at the world through linear spectacles, but sometimes you need lenses made out of beer bottles and it doesn't quite work.

author: Greg323i
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 04:17:57 am
content: I've heard several people mention that Prof Argawal is pounding home simple points and glossing over big chunks, and I agree. If you're trying to understand this material without reading the text then you are going to be lost. That's a big part of my problem, actually. I've ordered the textbook b/c I get a headache trying to read it on the computer and after a screw up from the original order I had to reorder and I'm still waiting for it.As for the Ivory Tower, how many universities are actually making an effort to give us this education? As this is a pilot program there are bound to be teething problems and if you have criticisms or comments I'm sure they'd love to have them to improve the course.I think things could be better, but I am learning and I'm happy with that.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 04:36:46 am
content: Quote from: IanB on April 01, 2012, 02:42:43 amYeah, it's only algebra and calculus (derivatives). But it's hard enough to weed out those who ask for help on simpler problems.Have you gotten to week 5 homework yet?

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 05:40:46 am
content: Quote from: Randall W. Lott on April 01, 2012, 03:13:39 am

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 04:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: slateraptor on April 01, 2012, 05:40:46 amI suppose that's a no. It's probably the most advanced engineering analysis that I've done. Did anyone have to do this for a Bachelor's in EE?This is what I was referring to:This guy has a badass voice by the way.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2012, 08:31:19 pm
content: Here are a few programs that might ease the burden for somehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/math-software-for-mitx-6-002x/msg101796/?topicseen#msg101796

author: TriodeTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2012, 12:47:21 am
content: While I am able to *do* this, my current situation puts me in a hard place and I cannot get much out of the course at the present.Will a course such as this be available in the future, as more polished? I am loosely familiar with the whole OCW and this format, however am unsure. Just do not want to drop out now and find I won't be able to find such a structured/graded free intro course like this online again in a year or two. Albeit silly, it'd be nice to hang the certificate on my wall at least some time in the next few years.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2012, 01:25:01 am
content: As an engineer with nigh on 30 years experience (and the grey hair to prove it--aargh!) I am watching the 6.002 video lectures and finding it quite interesting how much overlap there is with other branches of engineering. Like they say, there is nothing new under the sun, and the same concepts crop up with different names across the whole spectrum of engineering disciplines. So for instance the "load line" in Prof. Agarwal's lectures on large signal modelling of MOSFETs could become the "operating line" in chemical engineering when looking at distillation. Totally different context, but in each case there is some physical constraint expressed by a straight line that intersects with a curved line representing some important property of the system, and at the intersection a solution is found.

author: jgbena
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2012, 05:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: MrPlacid on March 29, 2012, 08:21:31 pmLOL! I'm not after the gold stars or brownie points.. The knowledge is the prize for me. But ill print out a batch if you want one!

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2012, 08:32:13 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on April 02, 2012, 01:25:01 amOur Sophomore Year was a curriculum that showed and worked with these parallels. Dynamics,Thermodynamics, Fluid Mechanics and Circuits were all used to taught with similar concepts and abstractions. It was interesting to see how similar the ideas really are, once you change your context.