Small business Shipping - FedEx, UPS or..... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 05:25:23 pm
content: Hi all,I'm looking to change my shipper as they have just shafted me on my latest invoice - I sent about 10 small 0.5kg boxes, they billed me for random 1, 2, 3.5kg thus 2 or 3 times the rate!Anyways, I am looking at UPS or Fedex as there is a plugin available for my online shop for both so it will make it a lot easier.Shipping from the UK to destinations worldwide.Any suggestions / experiences?............it's a hassle to change so I'd like to get this right ahead of replenishing my online shop with PDVS2's.PS. Avoid ParcelForce.Ian.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 05:36:31 pm
content: The problem with them is they always charge VAT/Duty and a hefty handling change at the point of delivery. It looks like the UK will soon have no trade agreements with the rest of the world, so this may not go down well with customers.While Parcelforce gets (tends) delivered by the local post system. Here, you have to be unlucky for them to bother charging VAT etc. and their handling charge is a lot less too.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 07:45:26 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 19, 2019, 05:25:23 pmI use FedEx and USPS from the US. I had some gear smashed by UPS, so don't like them. Also, we have a FedEx pick-up place right down the street. There's "UPS package store" close by, but they are not run by UPS, they offer their own independent insurance that is about equal or even greater than the ground shipping cost. FedEx and USPS are integrated with my web store.Also, I have used DHL when customers requested it, we now have a DHL reseller who gives us a GREAT price, but I don't have them integrated with our store.Jon

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 09:19:12 pm
content: I use UPS, have done for years. I box the item up, create the shipping label, and drop them off at a local UPS Access Point just down the road. If I have a few, or want to insure a larger delivery I book a collection.I send things all over the world too, though anything international the deal is the buyer is liable for any duties or taxes at their end - I don't get involved.Had no issues with them.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 09:52:09 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on March 19, 2019, 05:36:31 pmThe UK & Australia have been busy on this. If the UK has a hard Brexit, the free trade agreement with Australia will kick inCurrently most Australian goods exported to the EU have 24% or 25% import duty. So, the EU has not been good for Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 09:57:52 pm
content: Quote from: DerekG on March 19, 2019, 09:52:09 pmWell the UK has this down as "hope to get it done within a year", there is a technical agreement, but not a deal ready to be signed on the dotted line. The EU have a free trade agreement with Japan just about to start, which is handy for UK exports. Until the end of next week, then it doesn't cover the UK. Still, nice while it lasted.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2019, 11:47:11 pm
content: I am in Canada. I used UPS some. They work fine even though they're often late a day or two. Not all "Access Points" are the same. Some of them may cause delays, so you may try several of them to see which one works better.At any rate, shipping from Canada is terribly expensive - it's 5x times compared to the US. There are even companies who collect parcels here, truck them to the US and ship from there - this is still much cheaper. FedEx to Germany is well over 100 USD for a small package. I wish I could choose from a long list of shipping companies as you do, but in my conditions you can't get very picky - I use what I can afford.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 12:03:42 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 19, 2019, 05:25:23 pmYou can always try to use 3rd party broker initially (such as uk.interparcel.com etc) to evaluate your local drop off and collection services of UPS, Fedex, DHL etc.This is might help you later to compare direct UPS/Fedex quotes too.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 04:28:21 am
content: I have had bad luck with Fedex in US. I prefer UPS. DHL is best for international here. I am trying to find the platform that amazon uses to get super discounted rates (more than 50% off UPS). We use stamps.com for small packages that don't cost much.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 01:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: Reckless on March 20, 2019, 04:28:21 amPeople who pay exuberant customs fees on the other end may think differently

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 01:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: Reckless on March 20, 2019, 04:28:21 amI'm on the smallest UPS discount tier and the discount is way more than 50% from the normal prices you look up on the website.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 01:40:35 pm
content: Customs fees have little to do with courier and everything to do with the shipper doing their paperwork correctly. Asian sellers dumping cheap crap on the market don't do any of that and that's why that super cheap TV you got off eBay comes with a nice extra bill.All couriers are crap, I think that is the harsh reality of the situation; they pay their drivers sod all, give them improbable routes and contract out the difficult stuff to independents of varying quality who often only make a decent living in peak periods. One way or another regardless of who you choose, your local collection office, the delivery end or the admin bit in the middle will mess things up and that mess will cost you money. The courier who is good now will be crap in 6 months after doing something helpful like move your local depot 120 miles north or upsetting the last decent driver and replacing them with a string of non-native drivers who can barely read a roadsign. Our worst experience recently was with UPS and a consignment to the US, which they have no idea where it went, but despite the fact we obviously ship with UPS in the UK they insisted we and to deal with the US office to try and sort it out, at international phone rates with working hours that don't match ours. The competence level for the entire organisation seemed very low and they were very difficult to get "off-script" resulting in highly circular conversations.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 02:38:45 pm
content: Seems like quality of service (especially pick-up and delivery obviously) depends a lot on local differences, so giving general advice is probably a bit pointless.As for me, over here, UPS has always been better than FedEx overall. Pricing is in the same ballpark. DHL tends to be a bit cheaper for shipping but it can be the worst for the the recipient for customs fees and delivery.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 03:17:27 pm
content: Quote from: SMTech on March 20, 2019, 01:40:35 pmI don't buy TVs from China, but stuff which I buy comes without any fees if sent by ePacket, with moderate fees (around $10) if sent by FedEx and with enormous fees if sent by DHL. The fees are for collecting tax on the border. The tax gets reimbursed by the Government later, but the fees remains for me to pay. I'm sure the courier companies do quite a bit of lobbying work to keep this useless money-milking machine going. So this has everything to do with them. Might be different in UK, of course, but I doubt so.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 04:35:22 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies.........looks like I am going with UPS as they returned my call today (1 day) whilst Fedex haven't (3 days!).....UPS have a drop-off point under a mile away so an extra bonus.I've also gone ahead and installed the plug-in for my online shop (uses Joomla-Virtuemart) so it just needs configured just as soon as I get the UPS API key/ID.It will be a relief to start using an integrated shipping system rather than double dipping as I have been to date!Ian.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 04:59:04 pm
content: An extra data point for you.I used to use Royal Mail for all my international shipments. Unfortunately because they don't offer time definite or full end to end tracking, I ended up spending a very significant proportion of my time chasing up packages on behalf of my customers, and every time without fail I was wasting my time. By the time you had an acceptance of delivery failure (which takes about twelve weeks from memory), you have to then claim for refund, and the insurance claim amount is not the retail cost but the COGS. That's a further six weeks.This is a terrible use of your time. In the short term I ended up accepting any losses as a cost of doing business.I switched to Fedex for international shipments which gives full end to end tracking and is time definite. It ended up being marginally more expensive than Royal Mail for my most popular shipping destination (the US), where it was £9.42 for next day delivery from the UK in 2010. It's been creeping up over the past nine years, it's now £12.30.The benefit of Fedex is that 99% of the hassle disappears. The 1% left is when a customer refuse to pay taxes and Fedex returns the package... which you have to pay for, as well as an assumed "import" tax from HMRCThe only countries I don't ship Fedex are the UK (I still use Royal Mail Special Delivery, which is fully tracked and time definite) and Brazil and Russia where I still use Royal Mail even though it's not fully tracked or time definite.The problem with Brazil is that customers sometimes refuse to pay the tax which can be of the order of 100%. You're then left with a bill for shipping the item back, and a bill from HMRC for the privilege of having your item returned to you. Yes, you can try to fight HMRC to get the tax back, but good luck with that.Russia was OK for Fedex until about four or five years ago when sanctions took their toll and made shipping via any courier very hard. I switched back to Royal Mail which doesn't seem to be affected by this mafia style nonsense.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 05:18:07 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 20, 2019, 04:59:04 pmThanks for the info.I used to use Royal Mail retail before I used a Parcelforce business account, but after losing two packages in Germany I stopped using them, albeit I was compensated.The problem with Parcelforce (apart from shafting me over weights) is that their online WDM system is terrible IMO and buggy!.......no matter how many times I selected 'drop-off' we'd get a driver at our door to pick-up.In my online shop I have configured a good number of countries that I won't ship to......it's unfortunate but simply not worth the hassle!Ian.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 05:18:48 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 20, 2019, 04:59:04 pmJust declare a lower value. It does mean you aren't insured the full cost of the goods but it's a risk to be weighed against the risk of returned packages.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 06:24:19 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on March 20, 2019, 05:18:48 pmPlease. Do you have the faintest clue about running a business and falsifying taxes?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 08:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 20, 2019, 04:59:04 pmWow, this is sure assymetrical! FedEx from the US to UK is at least $45 for a minimal box, for their whenever service. Might be less than that for an envelope. They won't let you enter a weight less than one US pound. And, a couple pound package from US to UK would be closer to $100. But, they DO get it there!I'm quite sure next day would be almost $300 US.When I send by USPS, Parcel Force regularly fails to inform the recipient they have a package that they need to pay duties/VAT for, and so it gets returned.A "Royal pain", so to speak.Jon

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 08:26:26 pm
content: eShipper.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 08:44:53 pm
content: If I walked in off the street into a fedex depot, or used a commercial ecart reselling fedex, yes, you get quoted stupid numbers.Get an account with a reasonable volume, and Bob’s your uncle, rates miraculously tumble. In busy months, years, I can be doing 500 shipments/month. In more sensible times it’s about 500/annum, so you don’t have to be doing stupid volumes.I also save a bit by usng their packaging, in my case their “padded paks” which suits me, it saves me on starionery too.Their web UI, although a bit antiquated and full of character, is quite quick to use... particularly after you’ve done a few thousand ;-)I did at one time use a straight through process from my ecart into their system, but either my ecart or their system kept changing one way or another such that I got fed up and went back to manual re-key. I can do the paperwork manually for one shipment about every two minutes. When they change the STP interface, not so much, it can take me hours to get that working again!Another way to get good rates is to use a 3rd party agent. I used P4D in the UK for a while who resold Fedex. They were a young company when I used them but I became increasingly frustrated with them as their systems became more fragile, the result of their technical director being a serial tinkerer rather than being customer focussed, and their marketing director losing interest and becoming a “life coach”. The technical director kept breaking their systems with a new tweak almost on a weekly basis. Reliability and dependability is an essential facet in logistics.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 10:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 20, 2019, 08:44:53 pmI DO have a FedEx account, but don't ship often enough to get the good rates.QuoteI send fairly delicate PC boards, so want to use my own, tougher, packaging.Jon

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 12:20:33 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on March 20, 2019, 10:30:25 pmAs do I, there is nothing that stops you using your own packaging inside the padded pak, which is what I frequently do.

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 02:41:42 am
content: I have a FedEx account and the discount is very generous. And I don't ship that much too to be honest. Just talk nicely to their representatives and they might offer you something reasonable.I also agree with their old school web interface but it is so easy to use. Once you are used to it, you can get a shipment ready in a minute or 2. You can also save the products you are shipping and it's information (like description, COO, price, HS code, etc) to used for next time. And I ship every thing using their Padded Pak packaging. It gives you an extra layer of protection without adding too much of the weight. It saves you money too this way as all you need is a proper box inside.Here in Malaysia, all in bound shipment custom clearance process by FedEx has no handling charges or so whatever. DHL has charges for that and at times it's more than the custom duties and tax itself. And don't let me start on UPS, that's rubbish at best, at least here.

author: alanambrose
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 05:50:59 pm
content: UPS is not working for us - the last two 'next-day' shipments UK->Germany they just held up without any explanation and would have presumably sat on them for some time until we hassled them.Although their paperwork is atrocious (for instance, they only ever send physical invoices to us with the wrong address on, so we never get them) we've just opened an account with DHL. Maybe if we can get all the docs electronically the whole thing will make more sense.That whole industry though is still back in the dark ages...Alan

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 05:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: alanambrose on March 21, 2019, 05:50:59 pmJust goes to show, everything I do with UPS is electronic. Invoices, customs paperwork etc. Not sure the last time I received something on paper from them. I've heard of problems with UPS in Paris, where if the receiver isn't in the redelivery can be problematic. Overall I've tried FedEx, DHL, Royal Mail (UK only), and DPD. So far UPS has been the best of the bunch for me.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2019, 07:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: 48X24X48X on March 21, 2019, 02:41:42 aminteresting. I have had a FedEx shipper account for something like 20 years. When I first set it up, they had just bought out Roadway package Systems and renamed it FedEx Ground. It was fantastic, very quick shipping and prices VERY competitive to USPS. Now, FedEx Ground is quite a bit more expensive that USPS Priority mail in the US. I only ship a few FedEx packages a month these days, most of my customers choose USPS due to price. I RARELY ship FedEx Express within the US, but have shipped internationally, but it is quite expensive. I do have all this integrated with my web store, so it gives the customer the rate, they choose between services, and then FedEx charges me about the same as the customer was quoted online.I recently got an account with a DHL reseller, and the rates they give me are literally HALF of FedEx internationally. I have several customers, especially in Russia, that greatly prefer DHL. But, I don't have this service integrated into my web store.Jon

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 11:20:48 am
content: Hi all,So I got my account with UPS set up and have managed to get it integrated into my online shop......which is great!However, I have been playing with some dummy runs through the Cart to see what delivery costs are offered........and I'm confused!0.55kg9"x6"x6" box (17x10x10cm) - My packagingMy address, Scotland, UK to Nevada, USADeclared value = £300Going online via web browser to UPS.com and making a general time & cost enquiry I get the following comparisons:UPS.com web cost enquiry no account registered UPS Expedited (1kg billable weight) =30.24 UKPUPS.com web cost enquiry with account number registered UPS Expedited =92.13 UKPUPS Expedited via my online shop (account) =94.73 UKPAlso, If I do similar to a UK address (domestic),UPS.com web cost enquiry no account registered UPS Standard (1kg billable weight) =15.89 UKPUPS Standard via my online shop (account) =38.55 UKPWhat/why the huge differences?Any ideas to help a UPS newbie?Ian.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 11:27:52 am
content: It can take a while for the discounts to show up on the web site. I seem to recall something similar at the start. I think the store, when logged in, is giving you the full RRP price they use as the basis for the discounts. You should have had a 2019 rate sheet, so compare the numbers against that and you discount level.I’ve found the invoicing to be correct, even through the website at times isn’t. Especially if you ship over the threshold number per week to get the next level discount applied.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 12:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: jc101 on March 30, 2019, 11:27:52 amOk......willl look at that, meantime here's the text that appears on my Cart as an example.......I did wonder why the "Discount/Fee" text:-UPS Worldwide ExpressUPS Worldwide Express delivery service (Discount/Fee £101.46)UPS Worldwide Express SaverUPS Worldwide Express Saver delivery service (Discount/Fee £95.74)UPS Worldwide ExpeditedUPS Worldwide Expedited delivery service (Discount/Fee £94.73)Ian.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 12:30:36 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 30, 2019, 11:20:48 amI just logged in and created a UK shipment with the same details as above, and sure enough it offers me £38.55 before discounts. Though often I don't add the declared value, as that is for insuring the shipments (i.e. not for customs etc.). For larger orders I do, smaller ones I don't often bother. You're covered up to a certain value automatically anyway. UPS charge quite a bit for insurance, and so far I've only had a problem once in several years of using them.For the USA I normally use Express Saver over Expedited, doing the same I see £93.14 before discounts.On the UPS website there will be a box (near the bottom of the page I use) "Review Shipping details, including price, before completing this shipment", with that ticked you can get to the next page which will show the negotiated price. You can then cancel the shipment if your're just playing around. My shopping cart doesn't link to UPS, so I do things with cut and paste - but as I get more PO's than web orders it isn't a problem for me.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 09:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: jc101 on March 30, 2019, 12:30:36 pmI'm trying to automate as much as possible having done the cut n paste thing previously with ParcelForce........so I use a UPS shipping plugin for my Cart by ParkBeach and at the moment doesn't have a was of discounting the rates it pulls from UPS's servers......however I found a workaround tonight as it does have a Handling Fee entry and I have managed to set it to a negative percentage.Unfortunately, this will operate across all zones by the same amount.....!I have asked Parkbeach to look into this, i.e. a way to discount the various zones by various amounts as required.Ian.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 09:34:51 pm
content: Welcome to the sh!tty world of ecarts!

author: sam512bb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2019, 01:36:13 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on March 21, 2019, 07:17:08 pmThings are definitely different in the US... I say this as here in Canada, Fed Ex is hands down much cheaper than UPS. I shipped modestly and Fed Ex provides me with a 60% discount off the published prices for local and international shipping. Fed Ex Ground within Canada is usually about 1/2 that of UPS. and offers a much faster service ... a few days compared to UPS's a week.DHL has offered me discounted shipping which is very close to my Fed Ex rates, however, I have to commit to a shipping volume about of $3.5K per month. Fed Ex does not hold me to any shipping volumes and has a drop box, etc about a block away and so there is no reason for me to change.UPS is the absolute worst for nickel and diming for inbound International shipments. Fed Ex charges $10 for brokerage and DHL about $15 ... + any Government fees which are not the Shipper's charges. UPS, on the other hand, includes the brokerage fee as part of their overnight and 2nd day service, but then charges a bond fee, + extra fees for filing governmental forms... the result is that the final importation fee is more expensive than either Fed Ex or DHL.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2019, 08:31:27 pm
content: Quick tip from reading a few messages above : ask salesmen for quotes based on your (expected) volume, don't use the online quoting tool to make yourself a quick opinion. My shipping invoices look something like this : "Regular fare : 200 EUR, discount : 170 EUR, total : 30 EUR". Also, shop around with a few quotes in hand. Tell your favourite shipper what others have offered you and they might match it.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 07:48:23 pm
content: I get a very bad taste in my mouth and my fingers curl from typing the letters DHL.They add exorbitant and vague costs to packets from China, and they do not add decent bills to your packages so you can see what those costs are for. They also throw away tracking numbers and invent their own, so you do not know which is which. And once they've been so annoying when delivering packages here that I ripped a package out of the hands of one of the poor teenagers that was driving around to deliver the packages, and payed the cost by bank transfer.Never ever will I want do do business with DHL again.And I'm not the only one. If you look around on this forum or elsewhere you will find similar opinions.With Fedex, you just get your package from a delivery guy, and then a week or 2 later you get a bill in the letterbox for VAT, which is reasonable and I don't mind.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 07:03:43 am
content: Also check back in a year or two. If they didn't get it last time, then they can fight it out in a year. DHL offered me a much better rate than UPS a year later after I'd gone with UPS and UPS put their prices up a little.If someone else is paying for it I go FedEx but the price they quoted me was insane compared to everyone else.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 02:48:18 pm
content: Quote from: jc101 on March 20, 2019, 01:23:05 pmReally? I'd like to speak with you about that. We are in the middle of negotiations with both UPS and FedEx for shipping arrangements for the next 12 months and the best they're offering is 26% off. We spent a documented $10K on shipping last year, so while we're not the biggest contract out there it's real money.How much are you spending on shipping annually that you're getting 50% off? What's your secret to negotiating with these guys, other than playing them off each other?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 06:09:59 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on May 02, 2019, 02:48:18 pmWhen I originally opened my Fedex account, I was placing around $40k pa on shipping, but it depends a lot on whether I have a new product out. About $15k would be my last year's annual spend on FedEx shipping, but my pricing has been about the same in real terms for the past nine years. I do notice some variations due to fuel surcharges that can account for 20% of the cost.