Cairns Viper - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 04:37:20 pm
content: Does anyone have any information about a Cairns Viper thermal imager?Made by Diversified Optical Products, their part number 53-1000-3I did find the spec sheet for it, but was wondering if anyone had actually used one and their thoughts.TIA

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 04:48:27 pm
content: What do you need to know ?There was a short thread discussing the camera here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/rs232-protocol-software-for-older-thermal-imaging-modules/It is a BAE Systems microbolometer core based camera that, according to what I have read, was a decent performer.The Cairns company was broken up and the Vioer was produced by DiOP who in turn got bought by another company. Word has it that getting cameras serviced was always a challenge. There is no support or parts sources known to me at this time.The little 'coolpak' insert that helped keep the camera internals cool during Fire fighting is a very novel and interesting idea.The datasheet covers most aspects of the design.https://www.academicsurplus.com/sms/docviewer/aucdoc/20-23_Waermebildkamera_engl.pdf?auc=439191&docid=2335538Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 04:55:32 pm
content: Thanks Fraser figured you knew something about it, I did a search and didn't come up with any results..I just purchased one and should be here by the end of the week, it's suppose to be in perfect working condition so will see.Steve

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 05:30:30 pm
content: Microbolometer cores are pretty reliable and as this is a 'screwdriver' build you will likely find it to be quite modular in construction. There will be the self contained BAE imaging core, a control board, power supplies board and a monitor module. If there is ever a need to go inside the unit you should be able to see which module does whatFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 05:36:23 pm
content: Oooops, I may be in error on the core OEM. From pictures I can see the microbolometer is DRS branded.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2018, 04:02:45 pm
content: A good find, I never got to play with one myself. From the advert wording you can see it was a rival to the Raytheon BST based imagers - the sales spin is heavily against choppers and black haloes.It is a VOx, peltier controlled sensor, hence the need for the removable heatsink blocks. Are they solid copper or wax filled ?I think it was fairly high power even without the transmitter.As for the 'safe' in a fire' Lithium polymer batteries....regardsBill

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 03:15:22 am
content: I received the camera this evening and so far I'm extremely happy with the deal. It came with a few more items they hadn't mentioned, the sun shade, car charging adapter for the battery charger, original manual, on top of what they said was included. It also has a VHS tape on how to use it, now where did I put that VCR.Really surprised by the size of the unit and the weight, it's a pretty hefty unit.The image quality is outstanding "for me at least" and there's no flicker or freezing from a shutter at all. The thermal blocks are solid, very light weight, definitely solid metal. They are silver color, look sort of like aluminum but not quite, reminds me more of magnesium, just not sure.I've only had it on a little and did take one image taken outside while the dog was out walking around, the picture isn't as good as the live image by any means.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pOOme_5mW2q4uOqOIJGqzw5g0L53H7Ui/view?usp=sharingHere's a picture of what I received.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YRua9ltnz0MkCZImE8SXBbe3IaZr2PEL/view?usp=sharingCooling block top/bottom.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ftAM4lT026dL9HrPMZOQhlFYfEDdSFpb/view?usp=sharingIt does have a BNC connector on the bottom for video out so I'm going to get a cable and hook it up so I can get some better shots of the image.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 11:08:38 am
content: Chilli-Red,Well done with this purchase. That Viper looks to be in superb condition.The picture it generates also looks to be very good indeed. It us always hard to capture a decent image using a camera through the large viewfinder magnifier but you did wellThe video output port is very useful. I have connected Archos portable DVR's , USB PC video capture units and even video transmitters to the video output on some of my cameras.With regard to the units size and weight. This is not at all uncommon for the period in which it was designed. Even the venerable E2V ARGUS 2 and 3 appear large and heavy when compared to modern offerings. I suppose the view was that muscular fire fighters with heavy gloved hands were going to be using these cameras and they needed something large enough to get a decent grip on. Much like military equipment. The weight might have been less of an issue for them. Modern equivalents are more ergonomic and lighter thanks to developments in technology and materials.So why are the cameras of the period large and relatively heavy ?Well when you look inside them you see a chassis made from a durable alloy or Aluminium. Magnesium alloy might not be used as it burns well ! The chassis is intended to hold everything together in case of a fall and also provide the skeleton onto which the various PCB's mount. The lens block will be relatively large in size, usually mounted in machined Aluminium and containing large Germanium lens elements. That adds to to quite a bit of weight on its own. PCB's of the era are relatively low component density and low integration when compared to a more modern design. That does not make them inferior, just larger and heavier. If the microbolometer is temperature stabilised it will need a reasonably large Aluminium or copper heatsink and this adds weight. The power source chosen for the camera also effected total weight. Ni-Mh cells are quite heavy when compared to modern Lithium based technologies. It is interesting that efforts appear to have been made to embrace the new Lithium Ion battery technology in the Viper.There are two other significant items in the camera that add to its weight and bulk..... the monitor and the case. The monitor may use conventional CRT technology in cameras of this era. Such monitors are quite bulky and heavy. LCD panels significantly reduced bulk and weight. Now to the casing. As these cameras were intended to survive rough handling and and extreme environments, the casings were not your average light weight ABS ! Specific materials were selected that would provide durability, protection of the internal electronics from exterior heat and good grip for the user. In some Fire fighting cameras, such as the ARGUS 2 a clever multi layer protection system was employed. The outer casing around the camera was very resilient but sacrificial. It could be damaged by extreme heat from flames or severe impact but it was user replaceable ! Inside the sacrificial outer casing there was a 5mm thick custom shaped thermal blanket. Within the protection of the thermal blanket resided the actual thermal camera casing. This was a heavy duty, sealed, plastic waterproof module. Inside the cameras waterproof module the chassis was a custom Aluminium assembly that was shock mounted on rubber mounts. All these layers of protection added to the size and weight of the complete camera solution. The Viper may not employ the same design in its casing but you can be sure that the case will be flame resistant, thick and shaped so that a heavy gloved fire fighter can grip it well. A small easily dropped camera is not usually what a Fire fighter wants .... but that has changed over the years !Modern Fire fighting cameras are very different beasts to the Viper. Modern technology has been used for the internal and external parts of the designs. The cameras come in various hand held formats including the standard 'linear scope' like the Viper, 'Pistol Grip' like the FLIR K series and even 'mobile phone' format like the Avon (Nee E2V) Mi-Tic. Each format has its pro's and con's depending upon the use and these cameras normally weigh more than their consumer grade equivalent due to waterproofing , ruggedisation and heat protection. I own a Mi-Tic and I must say I love it. It does go against my comment against small cameras for gloved hand holding though. The manufacturer has carefully designed it to be stable in the hand though.I hope this small, insight into Fire fighting camera design is of interestThere are far more knowledgeable Fire fighting camera designers on this forum who may have further comment if I have missed something or made any errors in this postFraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 02:50:51 pm
content: Fraser, thank for the reply and info.I had read about and seen the other firefighting thermal imaging units before, I see the Bullard brand ones for sale around here pretty often, the Viper is the one that caught my eye as I had never heard of that brand or mode.The screen in Viper is a LCD display, but there's a very thick magnifying glass in front of it which appears to be glass and would add a lot of weight to the unit. The specs state 2.7kg, while a little heavy the unit itself is very bulky. I can understand why though the way it's built to survive in extreme environments. The manual also states that it's waterproof to 1M so there's a lot of sealing going on there to keep it that way I'm sure. The battery packs surprised me, while fairly large they only weigh 156g, I know that's due to the lithium polymer composition. It appears that one of the batteries hadn't even been used, it still had some cellophane on the bottom and no scratching at all, it was almost fully charged and the manual stated that they need to be cycled 5 times before they will hold a full charge properly so I'll use that one to get it conditioned. The other two have been used but very little scratching or marking on the contacts, the previous owner did say they barely used it, although upon opening the case it smells a little like a forest fire "need to air that out"The manual states that it will automatically highlight high temperature areas in either yellow or red. I did turn on our toaster oven and sure enough the heating elements had areas highlighted in a yellow/orange color. There's also a red symbol at the top of the monitor that comes on when a high temperature object comes within view of the sensor.I did ask the seller if they knew the age of the unit and he said it was purchased new in 2003-2004 from what he could remember, he had purchased it for Search and Rescue. So it's not as old as I thought it would be, If it were a cell phone or computer it would be ancient.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 03:00:15 pm
content: The Viper was reputedly a good camera. As you say, the bulk of the unit is a little disconcering but I suppose the intended users were used to bulky gear like breathing apparatus etc. 2004 is 7 years after the first AGEMA (Now FLIR) PM570 microbolometer camera was released. It was still relatively early days for the technology but bu 2004 FLIR were producing the PM695 with 3rd generation microbolometer technology that was lower noise and provided excellent imaging. Due to the product development time the imaging core in your Viper is likely Circa 2001 but it is still a good coreI will have a look and see when the Viper first appeared on the market.Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 03:29:08 pm
content: Fortunately this one does have a tripod mount on it, makes it much easier to use, and the large display makes it very easy to set up and scan around while attached to the tripod, almost like having a smaller unit hooked up to a larger screen, "just all in one unit". I could see where the large screen has a large advantage over the smaller ones, I have a E40 "upgraded" and it's sort of nice to have the large monitor built in, also being able to tilt the monitor 180 degrees is really nice.I would have probably passed this over being that I never heard of the brand but when I saw the asking price and what came with it, that really caught my attention.

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 04:00:00 pm
content: Also curious what the MSRP was back then, I haven't found anything listed.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 04:37:58 pm
content: I would expect it to be around $15K to $20KFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:04:06 pm
content: Looks like the Viper dates back to around 1999 from this Firehouse thread.https://forums.firehouse.com/forum/technology-communications/thermal-imaging-cameras/15880-cairns-viperFirehouse can make some interesting reading and watch out for the spats between the camera agents who are looking for sales via the forumThere have been some real hum-dingers in the past, especially when Microbolomters first came in and Agents were trying to say they were better or worse than BST based cameras. Hilarious arguments ensued.The above thread mentions the excellent image quality that I had also heard about with the Viper. If it is a DRS or even a BAE core in it, they are high quality manufacturers.Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:30:47 pm
content: Thanks for the additional info Fraser, much appreciated.I noticed this one is a revision 3 unit, and upon boot a AxSys symbol is displayed, one of the additional batteries also has an AxSys label on it instead of Cairns.

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:37:03 pm
content: Reading the Firehouse forum is very interesting, see the biggest complaint is lack of handle, not too hard to fix with the tripod mount on the bottom though, was the first thing I thought of that would be easy to add.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:42:20 pm
content: I believe AxSys was the last company to produce the Viper after various company take overs.Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:53:22 pm
content: I happen to come across this article.https://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2009/06/04/gd-acquisition.aspxLooks like AxSys was bought by General Dynamics in 2009.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:57:10 pm
content: Indeed. That is why Axsys dedirects to GD web site nowI found the Axsys brochure for you.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 09:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on September 07, 2018, 06:04:06 pmAt that time it was not yet a BAE core - the VOx thermal cores were still under Lockheed Martin.http://aviationweek.com/awin/bae-systems-buys-lockheed-martin-unit-167-billionregardsBill

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 11:14:36 pm
content: I set it up on a tripod and was able to capture this image of our garage. My wife had just gotten back and the hood of her vehicle is still pretty warm.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gXiEutV-velqcsVaCfYSK65Pz3yw-ZtN/view?usp=sharingI've noticed the higher the temps the cleaner the image becomes.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 11:14:25 am
content: Full auto ranging Thermal cameras normally do present a lower noise image when greater Delta T is present in the scene.The reason is the auto selection of temperature span. As the temperature span is decreased to bring out detail in a low Delta T thermal scene, the microbolometer and system noise become more visible. As the scenes content Delta T increases, the camera increases the span of temperatures displayed to include the highest and lowest temperatures present. This is a mixed blessing as the effective contrast in the image reduces as the span increases. In most scenarios this is not a serious problem but consider a case where you want to see a small Delta T between two targets in a scene that also contains very large Delta T between other targets. The visibility of the small Delta T can be reduced in the resulting broad span scene. For this reason it would be adviseable to view just the area of interest and avoid including extraneous higher Delta T area in the field of view.Fraser

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 11:35:30 am
content: more signal, less amplification... Really simple. I would suggest to use the camera in a scene it's meant for.... With flames and really high temperatures inside a burning building.But the car image does show how great the resolution deals with the corners as it's clear and no blurring whatsoever. I wonder if any kind of processing is used for sharpening.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 11:55:52 am
content: Some Fire fighting cameras, such as the ARGUS 4, have more than one sensitivity range that may be selected automatically to suit the scene being viewed. This can provide better imaging performance when a very small or very large Delta T is present. I am not sure whether the Viper has that functionality though.Fraser

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 02:12:55 pm
content: Vipitis, not sure if I'm going to be trying it out in a burning building anytime soon, but will keep that in mind.The picture I posted was taken with my cell phone, it's still not as good as the image on the screen but it's pretty close, the whole image overall is a lot sharper in real life.From information in the manual it apparently has two modes of operation, it switches between depending on environmental conditions.I'm attaching a couple scanned pages from the manual that give some more detail into the unit.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IvdYn9I1pMgrr0Bh--mTEKli19Oulxar/view?usp=sharing

author: chili_red
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 04:29:50 pm
content: My BNC video cable came in today and did a quick capture with it, I need to tweak my capture software a little but here's what I was able to get so far.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rObz_1ZkOe3dVtIAS68145W8TyujiiZY/view?usp=sharing

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 09:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: chili_red on September 08, 2018, 02:12:55 pmIt is not clear whether this is multiple sensor modes (as Fraser notes is the case with e2v/Avon Argus 4) or simply multiple image presentations of the same sensor sensitivity arrangement. We'd need core information to know for sure but the fire dynamic range is usually too high to do in one sensor gain.Some early cameras simply switched the 'count/°C' mapping in the output image, easy in an FPGA.Bill

author: parkerg
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 28, 2019, 08:33:18 am
content: We had 2 vipers in service

author: cejoba
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 01:16:44 pm
content: Does anyone knows the lens parameter? (aperture and focal length)I just got one of the lens and the picture looks really good even on other cores.