Clever ebay scam  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 06:22:54 am
content: Well i will write this as somebody could be in this situation which costed me 500 $I bought an item from seller A, 499 $ free air mail shipping and paid immeadately. After 20 days no shipping information or response from the seller so i opened a paypal dispute. Last day of dispute there was no answer so i changed that to claim and after paypal investigation i recieved my money back one week later.I bought the same item again from seller B for 50 $ more for upgrading to DHL. I recieved the item 4 days later, all was ok, left positive feedback.One day after recieving the item from seller B i recieve an e-mail from paypal to pay again to seller A since he has given a reclamation to the claim and delivered a proof i recived the goods. He gave the paypal the DHL tracking number from seller B!?!Immeadately i wrote to paypal back explainng them that this tracking number was for other purchase and ebay transaction and uploaded a screenshot of my ebay as proof and all relevant details. I got an automated response that my reclamation was rejected and 2 days later they charged my card for 499 $ and sent the money to seller A.Probably these seller were connected somehow (both located in China) and scammed me pretty nicely. Paypal just sends automated responses that seller has proof of delivery but dont care its from other auctionI gave all relevant documents to my bank credit card center, hope they can do something about it

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 06:50:14 am
content: what item was that? and you better name the seller here, A and B

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 06:51:00 am
content: I'd do plenty of shouting, this is redicolius, ebay own paypal and both are pathetically useless with dealing with issues because they neither care or have the staff. You paypal account cleaerly has a history of TWO payments and one refunded so it is pretty obvious there is a problem. You need to get hold of ebay too and report both sellers for fraud. if you dig deep enough there are ways of emailing ebay or phoning them but they make it hard to find. I wish I knew who to report them too because they leave people on thelurch and at the mercy of their actions with no way of replying back.I had a bit of a barny with a seller who refunded me and cancelled the transaction claiming and error in the listing. there sure was an error because she had tried to swindle ebay fees by loading the postage and got it wrong as she did not anticipate I'd buy 10 items at once and get a really good deal for half what oter sellers sell for. So i left negative feedback to that effect and a row via email ensued during which she accused me of sexism when I had no idea theseller was female. She went to ebay to complain and they wrote to me supporting her claims of abuse and that I should moderate my comunications although they were taking no action. I replied telling them that she was fakely accusing me of sexism and that if they were happy to let her fiddle ebay fees that was up to them, they wrote back saying they would investigate my "claims" which is pathetic because it is what I said from the start.Naturally I have stopped bothering to pay too much attention about loading the price onto postage anymore, if they are happy to let people do it well I'll take full advantage of that ! the more you automate a system the less efficient it becomes and the more you loose money so the more you automate it to save and so on - Welcome to ebay.That's why I intend going self employed and setting up my own website

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 06:51:23 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 22, 2011, 06:50:14 amyes please do

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 08:19:58 am
content: Forget talking to Paypal - go to your card company and get a chargeback on the basis of goods not delivered

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 08:35:20 am
content: Be warned, if you do a chargeback against paypal they'll freeze your account and try their hardest to get the money back out of youOn my CC statements the paypal transactions have a national number for paypal after them

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 09:12:51 am
content: Quote from: Chet T16 on August 22, 2011, 08:35:20 amYeah, I would definitely try calling paypal first. It is much easier to ignore and email or send a canned reply. If you tell them that you are going to call your credit card company next and contest the charges, they will probably see reason. If you can't get a hold of a human or they don't immediately agree to fix the situation then call the CC company.I wouldn't be above recording the phone conversation. If you do so, make sure you notify them that you are recording it. At the very least make sure you write down the name of the person you talk to.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 09:46:27 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 22, 2011, 06:50:14 amI will hold all the details about the sellers for the moment as my bank is trying to resolve this matter. The item was a Rigol bench multimeter.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 09:53:22 am
content: Out of interest, how many sales had A and B done previously, and what was there feedback percentage?

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 11:06:27 am
content: What's the price difference between A and B? Some eBay sellers could trade with two accounts.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 11:07:51 am
content: I would suggest a direct phone call to Paypal Europe.Not to say that just the shipping paper work, found on the product and specially the receipt of the seller B, is all that you need so to clear up the mess.Did you asked for the help of the seller B about this subject ?He should had a major interest to help you out, you are an valuable customer to him.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 11:43:33 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 22, 2011, 09:53:22 amBoth of them have very good feedbackQuote from: nukie on August 22, 2011, 11:06:27 amPrice was same, i just upgraded for DHL shipping at seller B.Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on August 22, 2011, 11:07:51 amStrangely seller B does not answer any e-mails about this topic. If he was not somehow connected to seller A there would be no tracking number exchange.I just got a call from my bank, they will charge back my transactionSeller A is smtzoneSeller B is aidtech

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 11:51:04 am
content: I'm surprised paypal(ebay) get away with their poor management of peoples money. As far as the regs are concerned they have to abide by banking laws and are a form of bank in order to operate their so called service

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 12:15:51 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on August 22, 2011, 11:43:33 amThis is good news, but it is possible to be correct about the connection, its more that natural one whole-seller to have more than one web shop's.It helps the accountant to split me thousands of dollars in smaller business, and they pay less tax, than be a single account with millions as profits.But its true that Paypal had become totally faceless, and its not helpful at all.The same happens with the Ebaytoo, and all those automated dialogs about getting help.I have lost my faith to both, and I have stop using them for the time.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 03:03:38 pm
content: http://myworld.ebay.com/smtzone/

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 03:11:29 pm
content: i see that like a normal seller that i used to deal with. maybe some miscommunication? you have to be soft with chinese people, they are easily offended

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 03:30:52 pm
content: Many things can happen, but shipping International can have more issues than shipping domestic; particularly this vendor ships international from a Chinese site, rather than from the US site. The site seems quite legitimate and unlikely a scammer, he's been in business since 2004 and has 99.6% good rating, that's hard to maintain.Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 22, 2011, 03:11:29 pm

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 03:57:53 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on August 22, 2011, 11:43:33 amI am 99.9% sure that smtzone and aidetech are in fact same seller, just with two different accounts. I have dealt with (both of) them in the past without any problem.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 07:54:55 pm
content: My Rigol DSO came from AideTech using DHL without any problems. Excellent service on that occasion.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 09:13:08 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 22, 2011, 07:54:55 pmI can share same experience with my DG1022 from the same seller.Btw I checked my email conversations and I can confirm that "aidetech" and "smtzone" are in fact the same.From one of emails:Please feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.Come back to our ebay stores for more new items:http://stores.ebay.com/smtzonehttp://stores.ebay.com/AideTech-USAThanks and best regards,David Caiwww.aidetek.com22 Straton Ct.Parlin, NJ 08859 USA

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2011, 09:51:19 pm
content: As long as you got refunded back for the second pay, then you should be well. The problem is the vendor has two E Bay sites for exactly the same item. You will need to contact E Bay over this. It seems like some sloppy E Bay postings. There are an increase in surplus stores in China advertised on E Bay. I have found some surplus stores in Singapore, Hong Kong, and South Korea. They all sell very quality and name brand items. This has not been a good year for E commerce. I bought a Mutoh drafting machine and it arrived broken. I did not returned it back, but repaired it myself. The pictured showed a perfect drafting machine, but the owner dropped it, before packing. I sold a Macintosh Portable on Craigslist and the buyer did not pay me for seven months during the great recession of 2008. I bought a pair of Street Skis and the bindings were defective and mounted in the wrong place, that I have to exchange the bindings myself and mounted them in the right place leaving holes in situ. The recessions have caused the sloppy on e commerce and manufacturing goods, too.Please, complain to not just E Bay and Pay Pal, but to the seller via, "contact the seller," if possible. Be polite and clear that you were charged twice for the same item and asked why? Tell them that sloppy listing and charging twice for one item are not acceptable. I complained to the Street Ski maker, Macintosh Portable buyer, and Mutoh seller. I got them resolved on my own and eventually got paid after seven months!!! You are not alone with problems in e commerce. I want to buy two microscopes from main land China, when I have work, but I am hesitation over, if it went wrong, then who will help me?

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 08:31:03 am
content: Dear hacklordsniper:--This is a very interesting and alarming post. Please keep us informed of events, particularly with regard to:1) Whether the seller(s) were actually being dishonest.2) Whether you were able to get eBay and PayPal to take a verified non-wishwashy position on this matter.--I think you should make all of the parties involved aware of this blog and the postings with regard to this matter.--I assure you they do not want to have to deal with my bank or my lawyer. Best RegardsClear Ether

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 10:50:26 am
content: The situation is resolved. My bank credit card division investigated the documents and refunded that paypal chargeback fully.The paypal is silent, i tought they will ban me but however i managed to pay for some items today without any problems.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 02:57:14 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on August 23, 2011, 10:50:26 amnice to see a bank doing something positiveJust out of interest, do you have a gold/platnum or other expensive credit card or just the common cheap one?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 05:36:04 pm
content: Just for info and a warning regarding overseas purchases......I recently lost GBP12 on a soldering iron tip thermometer that never turned up. Another, ordered at the same time from the same seller (not AideTech) arrived quickly (2 weeks from HK) I chased the seller and they provided a tracking number that showed the item as having left Hong Kong but no other tracking detail. After many weeks I tried to negotiate supply of another temperature meter but was met with silence. Communications had been great with them promising to help me....right up until I asked them to supply a replacementThe item was tracked but not insured (as it was only worth GBP12). The seller supplied a valid tracking number (for my consignment ?.... I'm not certain) so claimed their part of the deal was complete. I saw their point as they had apparently sent the item and it was lost in transit without insurance. For GBP12 life is too short so I bought two more thermometers at GBP8 each from another sellerThey both arrived safely.The moral of this story is.... for expensive items, pay the extra for tracking AND loss insurance. Free shipping can be a curse rather than a benefit if things go wrong (no insurance ?)

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 05:56:08 pm
content: That's interesting, spent well over £1500 with SMT zone buying their 0805,0603 and 0402 E96 kits, I got quick replies from them through email at about the US working times, looks like they've got some physical prescence in California if that's any help,http://www.smtzone.com/Certainly won't be buying anything else from them for work if this is what they get up to...

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 08:59:00 pm
content: You also need consider that China Post may not treat, track, or respect packages in ways the UK, US, or other developed countries treat mail. In many developing countries, packages are shipped by courier or private mail to prevent theft and damage.I'm not sure how true this video is, but I've heard mix input from friends who work with factories that mail can be treated roughly at times, when shipped via China Post. I haven't seen scars on my packages recently, but in the early 2000s, I'd get an occasional box with huge dents, tears. In the past 2 years, they look nearly pristine, but that's just handling, tracking to avoid losing mail is another process a post office has to develop.Quote from: Aurora on August 23, 2011, 05:36:04 pm

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 09:26:36 pm
content: I personally witnessed several heavy boxes fall out the back of a UK 'white van man' type courier as he was searching for my consignment. It was a sickening sight to see those boxes tumble out of the van and fall almost a metre to the hard Tarmac roadCouriers always claim that if a consignment is packed properly , it will survive the journey.... but do you normally pack allowing for a 1 metre drop onto concrete ?On a more positive note I have recently had four Marine Radars delivered to my house by various couriers. One was an open scanner type with an all up weight of 36kg and the others were radome enclosed types weighing around 26kg each. The fragile monitors were also in the boxes with the heavy scanner heads. None suffered any transit damage in spite of their large size, weight and difficulty to protect with padding. I was quite surprised that the open scanner didn't get dinged in transit. The courier almost got a hernia delivering it to the house (the box was the size of a coffinA prime candidate for poor handling in transit.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 10:06:42 pm
content: There is many funny videos out there, about anything.Definitely not an EMS installation, and it could be a local private domestic company for carrying small parsers like business to business.The EMS network is better organized than a army, with a daily traffic of hundreds of tons.The young ones could believe that those boxes on the video contains Rigol scopes, but that's not true.The label " Fragile " it was not invented with out reason.All the people who works on the postal services worldwide, they like their work, their are proud about it, and they do it with passion.And actually all those workers are our own brothers and fathers.I have visit lots of times the local postal service, and I have see how well and systematically they work,even by handling small packets or even larger cargo.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 11:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on August 23, 2011, 08:59:00 pmDo you really expect UPS or Fedex to treat your packages better? Why do you think they tell you that packages should be able to survive a 6 foot drop?US shipping companies are perfectly able to destroy packages beyond recognition. Just ask anyone shipping large, fragile items like antique radios or scopes. Some people seem to complain that it's rare for anything big to arrive unharmed these days, even if packed properly.Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on August 23, 2011, 10:06:42 pmExactly, it tells you which ones to kick instead of just throwing them.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 11:12:34 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on August 23, 2011, 08:59:00 pmI don't recall whether I posted it here or not but this week I received a package from a Chinese company.It was supposed to contain two "Almost Ready to Fly" (ARF) RC model aircraft.The box was so badly crushed that in places it was no more than 50mm thick (it should have been about 600mm).It really did look as if someone had repeatedly driven over it with a forklift until finally, the crumpled consignment was noticed and thrown back into the processing stream.When it arrived, I refused to accept it. Hell, when I picked it up in the middle, the ends sagged down to point directly at the ground -- it was so crushed and floppy. In fact, it resembled a large wrinkled envelope rather than a carton.I have to say however, that the company who sent the package were brilliant (I'll give them a plug -- it was HiModel.com ).Within 48 hours of me contacting them, they had resent the entire order and emailed me the tracking number.Just goes to show that while some companies (like GoodLuckBuy.com) don't give a tinker's curse about honoring their contracts with customers, others (like HiModel) are better than many Western companies in respect to their customer support and after-sales service.Like all things -- it's Caveat Emptor.I've already built a list of good and bad online Chinese vendors -- I wonder if we ought to perhaps start a sticky in one of the forums that will allow others to share their experiences. This could save some of us from wasting money with bad companies and help reward the good ones by directing more business their way.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2011, 11:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: alm on August 23, 2011, 11:01:31 pmLOLThis is why is probably safer to buy only products that comply to IP67About EMS CN the Youtube is dry about direct links.And so I had to drill with the Chinese search engines so to find some material.Here is a link about the EMS, all the EMS workers use uniform clothing, and markings.Also their trucks or planes or everything that they use has special colors and markings.And so all those videos with workers with no uniform clothing are fakes.http://tv.sohu.com/20090301/n262534091.shtml

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 12:19:49 am
content: Dear RCMR:--GoodLuckBuy, indeed that is priceless. I guess FatChanceJack was already taken.Clear Ether

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 03:23:33 am
content: Quote from: SgtRock on August 24, 2011, 12:19:49 amLOLThe most funny part from those stories, is that when you paint them red on ebay,all of them use the same poem : What are you doing I am trying to feed my family with this job.Any way, everything is on the game that called life.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 03:04:49 pm
content: RCMR's suggestion of a list showing which companies offer good or poor service is, IMHO, an excellent idea. The problem is that all companies have their off days so the ranking needs to be the result of positive or negative votes. No idea how that can be done on a forum but I still like the suggestion. I like to support companies (UK and foreign) that put some effort into their customer service.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 03:27:00 pm
content: I don't know how they treat it but given their liability, it would cost them. Private carriers are responsible for transit damage in the US, at least UPS and Fedex. USPS only if you add insurance. Proper packing for each carrier is defined by the worse case handling it will typically undergo with them. For delicate items, a responsible shipper will use courier freight, and they handle it even more delicately, such as big screen flat TVs.UPS policy:http://www.theupsstore.com/products/pages/pac.aspxhttp://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/service/claims/hlp/damage_process.htmlAs for antique radios, ham gear etc, one can't rule out poor packing by the sender is as much to blame. I have yet to file a claim with any carrier for damaged goods in 30 years of buying via mail. Many who ship T&M gear professionally use packing foam, it allows standard carriers to transport what normally should be courier. For individuals, there are smaller packs:http://packagingproducts.larsenpackaging.com/item/expandable-foam/flashpac-foam-in-bag-instant-foam/item-17243?#SpecificationsIn the US, USPS is contracted to deliver UPS and Fedex to more remote locations and complicate filing claims. The more rural the location, the more likely handlers are less well managed or could have dueling banjo type employees.Quote from: alm on August 23, 2011, 11:01:31 pm

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 03:32:14 pm
content: Here's a recent discussion in an expat forum about issues with China Post:http://www.gochengdoo.com/en/forums/thread/4041/china_post_problemsQuote from: RCMR on August 23, 2011, 11:12:34 pm

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 03:55:02 pm
content: Quote from: RCMR on August 23, 2011, 11:12:34 pmLet's do it! \O/

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 08:21:27 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on August 24, 2011, 03:27:00 pmUnless your delicate product is worth about $10, like some of the old tube gear. The fact that it's cheap doesn't mean that it doesn't suck if many of them arrive with shipping damage.Quote from: saturation on August 24, 2011, 03:27:00 pmTrue. However, some people that I see complaining have been shipping delicate stuff for years and do everything they can to protect the stuff. It's just hard if price doesn't allow for expensive options like foam-in-place. Shipping damage seems to have gotten worse in at least some parts of the US in the last few years.Quote from: saturation on August 24, 2011, 03:27:00 pmThere seem to be significant differences between the quality of carriers in different locations, not just rural vs. big cities.Many of the packages you saw in the video probably also survived if they were properly packed, it didn't look like that much deceleration compared to the standard 2 meter drop off a conveyer belt or cargo hold.

author: dfnr2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2011, 09:17:03 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on August 22, 2011, 11:43:33 amI have bought from SMTzone before. They operate out of California, and have always answered the phone, and answered questions about their products, and deliver on time. I have never had any problems. I really like their SMT organizers.Whenever I see a store selling new stuff on Ebay, I always check if they have a regular site, and if they do, and if they accept credit card payments, I do that instead. If I am not sure of the company, I generate a temporary credit card number online. That way, if there is an issue, you have real recourse via your credit card company. Also, I notice that many companies actually charge less if you buy from their website rather than Ebay, probably since they don't have to pay the fees.Dave

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2011, 12:16:31 am
content: Quote from: dfnr2 on August 24, 2011, 09:17:03 pmI prefer to pay the something more, and have the chance to paint them Red.Some "sellers" are not that serious with web sales, they think that is another tiny universe for kids familiar with computers.Even If I do not favor Ebay, their points system has a true value.