KID-R480A Loud bang and smoke - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: offline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2019, 09:39:17 pm
content: I'm looking for advice about a KID-R480A Bga Rework Station.It was bought recently as untested, It had a yellow industrial plug. which I swapped for an Masterplug RCD PlugI turned it on everything seemed okay, and was browsing the touch screen menusuddenly there was a loud BANG, it tripped the breaker in my house. There was a lot of smoke coming from the left around the side cooler.I've removed the back panel to have a look insideWhat do you think the source of the smoke might, be what should I remove to check.Is it possible it's modified for 110v and and I put 240v. although it does say 220v on the sideAlso It has a hole on the side for a usb, but there is no usb port it's missing. and the laser and lamp don't turn on.

author: pinyoro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2019, 03:19:02 am
content: Bang and smoke sounds like a faulty capacitor.Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

author: offline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2019, 07:50:08 pm
content: I was having a look at this before, I think the cause was this cross flow cooling fan. It smells burned.looks similar to the fans found inside microwaves.After some research I believe I need a AC Shaded Pole Motor YJ61-30Does anybody know where I buy a replacement?

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2019, 08:55:31 pm
content: "Industrial yellow plugs" are 110v, so yes you blew it up. However, the switch mode PSUs I see in it are probably 110-240v. So it is a matter of seeing what let the smoke out and hopefully fixing it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2019, 09:04:35 pm
content: That looks like a regular shaded-pole motor, it should be relatively easy to find a replacement of the right dimensions, and even if you can't, it's not hard to rewind one.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2019, 09:30:08 pm
content: QuoteSupposedly. However its not unusual to find idiots cutting of the locating lugs on the plugs to make a "universal lead",why waste money on 2 different leads for 240 and 110 when 1 can be bodged to fit everything.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2019, 09:48:44 pm
content: Forgive me for being sceptical but I wouldn't expect a small shaded pole motor to cause a loud bang and trip the house breaker.The motor winding is quite fine, so I would expect one of the ends of the winding to quietly fuse without tripping anything, even if the winding insulation had started to develop shorted turns. The outer tape doesn't appear to have got that hot and I don't see any evidence of the former melting enough (at all?) to cause a ground fault.I wouldn't be particularly surprised by it smelling burned as it will have been sucking smoke. You could well be smelling hot varnish. If the winding still shows a sensible continuity then I think the actual culprit is almost certainly something else.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2019, 10:24:41 pm
content: I would agree with Gyro, I'd expect a small motor with e.g. shorted turns to get hot and smell, maybe smoke but loud bangs usually suggest a capacitor or semiconductor device has met it's maker.The plate shows this thing is rated at 18Amps, if true you won't be able to power this from a 13 Amp socket and would explain why it had an industrial plug attached. Just to check, the smoke was definitely coming from the unit and not your freshly fitted RCD plug?

author: offline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2019, 10:08:14 am
content: I turned it on without the cooler motor it blew the fuse on my extension reel. If this needs 18A what do I need to run this machine? All I have is 13A sockets.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2019, 11:40:06 am
content: Quote from: offline on September 02, 2019, 10:08:14 amsomething wrong and shorted if that small equipment requires more than 10A from 240Vac, more than 2KW is not right. whats arrowed in the picture? looks like melting points. try disconnect the load and turn on PSU only if its still burning fuse. your picture is not clear where the mains power input will go, looks like there are more than one entries. no schematics? it has its own circuit breaker

author: xmetal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2019, 12:12:40 pm
content: I did a search for the model and it says rated power is 2700W (assuming the Chinese source is correct) so it should run fine on a 13A socket.

author: xmetal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2019, 12:24:51 pm
content: I then found this which gives the impression that 2700W refers to the bottom IR heater. If that is the case, a 13A socket wouldn't be suitable and you would need a 16A or 32A socket installed. These use the industrial blue plugs, not the yellow which are 110V.SpecificationPower: single-phase 220V, 50/60HzPC B size：L20*W20~L470*W420mmBGA size：2*2-6 0* 60mmPC B locating way：outer or frameBottom pre-heating：IR2700 WLower heater：hot air 800 WUpper heater: hot air 600 WPower: Single-phase 220V, 50/60HzMachine size：L675*W630*H600mm

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2019, 01:15:12 pm
content: Wow, I bet that makes decent toast!Are you planning on doinglotsof BGAs? Just curious.

author: offline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 07:28:12 pm
content: I must have an early revision, no usb, no ir sensor for a remote control, There isn't much info anywhere for this rework station.Really I just wanted to practice removing bga components, I've decided to try rewire, and separate what I can from the wiring loom. Then I can test things individuallyand get rid of some bullet connectors, maybe use terminal strips.I did buy a blue 16A/32A plug/socket pair. but wont my 13A wall socket be insufficient. Is it safe to draw power from two sockets into one?.Still think this cooler motor windings are blown, I got virtually zero ohms on my meter. the motor connects to no 7 and negative on the breakerFirst thing I want to figure out is the lamp and laser menu touch buttons not working. what is the three pairs of connectors OUT1 OUT2 OUT3

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 07:57:15 pm
content: Quotecongratulations youve just made a widow maker.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 08:10:45 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on September 04, 2019, 07:57:15 pmI'd have to say no - once you put one plug in, the pins on the other one would become live. You could of course use the switches on the sockets to mitigate this but it wouldn't be a foolproof procedure and could potentially injure of kill someone.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2019, 11:49:17 pm
content: I'm sorry that your nice new device blew up.Whatever its shortcomings, it looks like a lot of work (and money?) went into it.First of all, for Americans (like me) who don't understand these things, "yellow industrial plug" means IEC 60309 European standard round, colorful, plastic plugs.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309The British are always selling stuff without plugs or the wrong plug.Yellow plug = 120V, blue plug = 240V.So the specs say 2750 + 800W + 600W + (mmm, maybe 100W for the Mean Well NES-50-24) = 4250 Watts = 20 Amps @220VOk, so why is the line circuit breaker 60 Amps!!!Because this was intended for 120V.The Mean Well and the little LED driver are universal, but the fan and the heating elements are not.I don't know if the heating elements have serial/parallel options for 120/240.If there are wiring options, you may be saved, although the triacs may be blown.They probably didn't test this because they didn't have a big enough 120V supply.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 12:40:56 am
content: The QS-2008 vacuum pump (which is 220V) is being fed with that step-up transformer, it might have gotten hit with 480V!It all comes down to what options you turned on with the touch panel.If you can remember, it might help.Also, the triacs under the blue MOVs may be blown.You did turn on 11kW of heating (4*2750).

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 02:12:39 am
content: holy spaghetti! (the hand drawn schematics above) well at least you have learnt your system, thats a good thing... i think that toaster will not turned on right away when you switch the mains power on, so i still think there's something causing the short or high power consumption. have you tried disconnecting all and then connecting one by one to see which one consume that much power? just by looking at it, if me, i will try disconnecting the green connectors on the control board and to led/laser driver first to see if the SMPS cause the high current consumption. if its ok, then i'll try connecting the left green connector, if its ok, reconnecting the right green connector, this should narrow down the problem. ymmv.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 02:55:34 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 05, 2019, 02:12:39 amSeriously?You've got a 50W SMPS, designed for 240V, probably with a fuse inside.Why are you suspecting that, versus, say the 11kW load that the main heater represents on the wrong voltage?Everything didn't explode when he plugged it in, it was after trying some buttons on the panel.Maybe it was "preheat" or "calibrate" or "demo" or who knows.We already have a shaded pole fan that's toast.If he turns on the vacuum pump, that will blow up.If he turns on any of the three heaters on, they will blow up (if they haven't already).

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 12:23:11 pm
content: Quote from: Renate on September 04, 2019, 11:49:17 pmThe British are doing no such thing. All consumer appliances sold in the UK must come fitted with the correct BS1363-1 plug by law, but cheap, low quality crap with incorrect or badly made connectors seem to be very easy to import.Quote from: Renate on September 04, 2019, 11:49:17 pmYou might want to check your maths. The plated current matches up almost perfectly with the total power at 240v, so how would this be a 120v device?

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 01:02:37 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on September 05, 2019, 12:23:11 pmMy apologies, I'm out of date, but that law was only passed in 1992.https://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/31/world/mere-plug-at-the-wire-s-end-in-england-that-s-progress.htmlQuote from: mikerj on September 05, 2019, 12:23:11 pmWe're agreed that this device takes over 4000 Watts, correct?It's only the voltage that is in dispute.There is a 60 Amp, two pole, trip curve C breaker on the input.(As a C breaker it would trip instantly at 5-10X, i.e. 300-600 Amp.)There was a yellow IEC 60309 plug on the unitThere is a transformer (which I claim is step-up) on the vacuum pump.It blew up on 240V.

author: offline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 04:01:50 pm
content: Maybe it is 110V, one of these voltage relays has died. burn damage under the pcbI tested the vacuum transformer direct to 240v It output 120vHELISHUN HLS-T78-DC24V-C10A 120VAC20A 14VDC

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 04:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: offline on September 05, 2019, 04:01:50 pmI presume that you hooked this up "backwards", 240V into where the pump was connected and got 120V out of where the input line was.You may have lucked out in that the relays that feed the accessories blew up.Maybe it never tried to turn on any of the heating sources.Your biggest problem may be that all the heating elements are only designed to work on 120V.Getting three of them replaced with 240V could be expensive.The 120V is crazy, even in America a device like this would take 240V.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 05:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: offline on September 05, 2019, 04:01:50 pmthats the 8th pin from the left (silkscreen marking blocked by the bottom relay, so cant tell what), you didnt mark where it go on your hand drawn schematics (now missing) either. the PCB is obviously designed for 220V. ignore the 120V marking on the relays, they can happily take 240V, china style designs obviously knows thiswhat the vaccum pump rated? (the white box there?)

author: offline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2019, 07:33:53 pm
content: I'm fairly certain the transformer is the right way because one of the bullet connectors on the vaccuum fell offThe burned trace is connected to the cross cooler, before I removed all the relays. I did try testing the vacuum circuit alonehaving one transformer ac input on vac pin. but pressing the lcd vacuum it never came on.The green line is as if looking through the board yellow is on top.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2019, 11:38:55 am
content: Quote from: Renate on September 05, 2019, 01:02:37 pmThe plate on the device states 18 Amps and 220v which is almost exactly 4kW. Why would the plate be showing both the incorrect voltage and incorrect current rating? As someone else mentioned, having such a heavy consumer on a 120v circuit also makes little sense.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2019, 01:34:15 pm
content: Well, the specification plate is just wrong.Either this was a special order or else modified by an idiot.Just look at how the transformer for the vacuum pump was mounted.That doesn't look very professional.It's all good to debug and repair that PCB, but the important question is still unresolved:What is the voltage rating of the 3 heaters?If the heaters are 120V, that means that this is some factory special order.If the heaters are 240V, that means that somebody thought that they could modify this for 120V before they realized that the heaters wouldn't work correctly and they sold/dumped it.If you are lucky, this is the second case.A bit of forensics here would help.Are all the internal connections made with exactly the same connectors or is the strange transformer different?Did the 60 Amp circuit breaker look like it was replaced?Does the shaded pole fan look like it was factory mounted?

author: zus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 10:54:21 am
content: I recently acquired this machine and I have the same issues lamp and laser do not work. The 2 middle ceramic heaters do not come on but others do. Otherwise everthing works including touch screen. There are 2 switches on the right side labelled as Number 1 and 6, what are they for? I thought they were for the heaters but do not seem to do anything. I have not opened the machine yet. Please would like advice how to fix the issues or at least some information as not much I could find except here. I understand ths is an old Thread but any info and help would be appreciated. Offline and others thank you for all the info already posted.

author: zus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 06:55:55 am
content: Just an update for info and may be useful to those who still have this machine. I managed to repair the BGA machine. I had an issue on the power relay board with one of the triac BTA41-600B and I changed it and the two BTA20-600B too. It appears there was a spark there at some point and one of its leg sort of fused as per picture and dark residual of the spark is evident on the heat sink. The BTA41-600B with the issue tested normal though. The light and laser I managed to repair them, the issue was with the switches, which was damaged due to force pressing I guess. The outer shell was loose and internal spring was missing. I found kind of similar ones on aliexpress. To note the switches have a bulb inside and the light should come on when the switch is switched to the on position but they do not because from factory they were not connected. They have 5 pins at the back but only 2 pins are used. As for working the lights and laser with the LCD touch screen this was never set from factory to work. As the output wires are not connected as the author's of this thread queried what was the output 1, 2 and 3 for? I can hear the relay clicking when touched on the lcd screen but it does not work because the outputs were never connected from factory to the light and laser. It kind of does not make sense why would you use the LCD touch to put the lights and laser on when already can do it much easier from the convenience of the physical switches on the machine. To note in the instruction manual only switches is mentioned for operation of the light and laser. The instruction manual, which can be found on line is not so accurate with the description numbers titled "parts name".The 2 middle heaters works now as I tested the resistance of the old ones and was in megaohms (faulty), the new ones only read between 75 to 150 ohms if I can recall. The 2 switches on right side of the machine labelled No1 and 2, the No1 is for the bottom furthest left side single ir heater and No6 is for the bottom furthest right side single ir heater. The user interface is not so easy and it takes a while of getting used to. This version of the Machine was manufactured in July 2012, 220v at 16 amp. The author's version the light and laser lcd touch can be found in the assist menu but mine can be found in the main menu. I guess the same LCD interface was used for this BGA machine but tweaked a little and updated with new version of the same model and adjustment was made in new revision of the software may be. The major difference compared with the author's one, mine does not have the transformer inside. It seems the author's one was designed to operate on 120V - (yellow 16amp plug) not 220V as he and others suspected modification must have been made or is factory designed to work on 120V? Mine is rated at 16 amp not 18 amp. This machine is really heavy about 40kg. I am lucky to have got it all working as it should do. Hope someone find this useful.