Room-temperature superconductor - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2023, 09:46:52 pm
content: Claimed critical temperature is 127C:https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12008

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2023, 10:15:58 pm
content: Comments turned off, unlisted video, of a channel having zero videos uploaded...I'm a bit skeptical.

author: WatchfulEye
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2023, 11:05:59 pm
content: Better video with link to a different pre-print manuscript:https://sciencecast.org/casts/suc384jly50n

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2023, 11:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on July 25, 2023, 10:10:58 pmSo?QuoteIf it works, it will be hugely important. Not usually how this sort of breakthrough appears, though.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2023, 11:45:36 pm
content: We got the lead out of solder, and now it could be back in the wires themselves.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 04:43:04 am
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on July 26, 2023, 02:35:08 amYou'll get over it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 09:15:51 am
content: The lump being repelled by the magnet is a bit more indicative of diamagnetism, but they could just hammered a chunk off a hard ferrite magnet.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 12:10:37 pm
content: The paper contains some odd descriptions.It's not clear, how they have practically measured the supposed electrical superconductivity.There is no picture of the setup, the instruments used, the geometry, structuring and contacting of the probes, was it a film or bulk sample, what real voltages had been observed, i.e. @ 100mA (very high current for such experiments at usual samples) did they measure nV? Therefore, I can't reproduce their conductivity values.The stricter criterion is measuring magnetic susceptibility χ' = ∂M/∂H, which is exactly -1 in case of superconductivity (that's the said Meissner effect).That strange magnetization measurement with a supposed SQUID, how have they done that?They measure the magnetization in "emu/g", which is an ancient, I think non SI unit nowadays, and not very convincing.. The material could be a little bit diamagnetic only..There is no steep susceptibility step, and that measurement is not related to any geometric property.Why do they measure H in Oerstedt, instead of A/m? Why don't they show a measurement in zero magnetic field, or only the Earth's magnetic field of < 50µT (0.5Oe) ?If you have a SC sample in the form of a small rod, or a thin film of a given area, you can always calculate the expected output signal of your susceptometer (SQUID or e.g. AC Hartshorn bridge) and normalize that to confirm that χ' equals exactly -1.Has this paper already been Peer reviewed?I'm not convinced at all.Frank

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 03:42:22 pm
content: If it's not an outright hoax (which is the most likely explanation) the material is still very special.A homogeneous material which is not a superconductor, acting as a magnetic field dependent brick wall current limiter could be useful.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 05:15:07 pm
content: It looks like they already published their claim in what appears to be a rather obscure Korean journal a couple of months ago (http://doi.org/10.6111/JKCGCT.2023.33.2.061). Which is ... let's just say, it seems like a weird thing to do for something of this magnitude.In any case, this would be such a big deal, even if it were published in Nature, I would definitely want to wait for several others to replicate the results.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 09:34:40 pm
content: He is demonstrating Lenz's law, nothing else. Any copper or aluminum or silver would demonstrate the same motion when exposed to a strong moving magnetic filed.Here is an extreme example:https://youtu.be/g0amdIcZt5I?t=442How is it possible here at EEVBlog, no one knows about Lenz's law, or recognize that this is what happens when you move a magnet in front a copper coin.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 09:51:27 pm
content: It maintains its distance when he stops moving the magnet.Agreed, though, almost everything about this screams "Hoax." Hence the choice of forum. I hope I'm wrong, of course!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 09:52:02 pm
content: There is a levitation video here:https://sciencecast.org/casts/suc384jly50nBut as someone points out in the comments, non-superconductors are also able to do the same thing.I don't know if the magnet "test" is actually proving anything? Or is it just testing the properties of the material.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 09:54:14 pm
content: Bismuth and Graphene as well.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 10:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on July 26, 2023, 09:51:27 pmLOL, it only looks that way because of when the video starts, the magnet is already in motion. You don't know the true angle of the camera, now do you?Otherwise, he would push and hold the magnet right against the sample just to show us it would keep it's distance even at an angle. And like others said, there can be a tiny bit of diamagnetic material within as well as the existence of conductive copper colored diamagnetic metals exist as well. The vast majority of the effect illustrated perfectly fits Lenz's law.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2023, 10:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 26, 2023, 10:05:02 pm(Shrug) At 0:09 and 0:30 the magnet is being held still near the sample for long enough to demonstrate that minimal, if any, net attraction or repulsion is taking place. Note that the polarity of the magnet has been reversed between those two timestamps.I don't know of anything else that will behave exactly that way... but I'm not exactly an SME, to put it charitably. If it's a hoax, which my money says it is, it's an inexplicably-deliberate one that will torpedo numerous careers at the institution involved.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 12:57:35 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on July 26, 2023, 10:49:08 pm... Lenz's Law doesn't care about magnetic polarity...Ok, enough, I'm out...

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 07:01:05 am
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 26, 2023, 05:15:07 pmOne of the videos shows what appears to be a brittle material. Does anyone know how this can be used in practical applications?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 07:21:59 am
content: Thin films could be flexible enough.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 07:35:28 am
content: Quote from: Marco on July 27, 2023, 07:21:59 amIs there any reason to expect this material could be formed into a thin film?Superconduction has limits on various factors, so I believe there is still minimum sizes required depending on the application.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 08:05:42 am
content: The paper said they had a thin film.Though just using glass for a thin film and magically getting the same properties as the bulk material adds to the unbelievability.

author: rteodor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 08:46:49 am
content: Just 4 news bellow this one: "Another Retraction Imminent for Controversial Physicist" [...] "who has made controversial claims about discovering room-temperature superconductors".

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 08:54:33 am
content: Scientist makes shocking new discovery that venture capital burns at room temperature.Now trending on X.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 08:58:06 am
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on July 27, 2023, 08:54:33 amIndeed!https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1684218600456876032

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 12:03:18 pm
content: Here are links for the actual paper(s):https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2307/2307.12037.pdfhttps://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2307/2307.12008.pdfThey do show super conducting property at room temperature indeed, the critical current is around 250mA though.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 12:10:05 pm
content: Assuming it can be replicated it seems like good progress.Still some ways to go through. but very promising.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 12:21:26 pm
content: 250mA through what cross-sectional area?

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 01:57:54 pm
content: Quote from: dzseki on July 27, 2023, 12:03:18 pmThe first paper as well is not convincing at all.Levitation over a (super-) strong magnet does not proof SC properties, that could be some diamagnetic stuff as well.You need a proper sample with 4W connection, defined geometry, to perform electrical measurements to prove SC properties.No picture, and no such information given.For the Meissner effect on a bulk sample, you need its geometry to normalize the signal.Using 2 phase AC susceptibility, the real phase χ' represents the magnetization of the sample, the imaginary part χ'' represents the losses, which go to zero if the sample is really super conducting. Therefore, the susceptibility is as well a measure for the electrical conductivity.The resistivity of ordinary metals like Copper and Lead goes down for decreasing temperatures, (arbitrary units used), as can be seen in χ'. χ'' first goes up, but in case of Lead, which becomes superconducting at about 7.2K, the losses vanish at its jump temperature.For an YBCO film sample, it's equivalent.As both these methods for proving SC are quite old, and were intensively used on the then new High TcSC, about 35 years ago, it is quite mediocre, what those guys have presented here, from an experimental point of view.Frank

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 03:34:47 pm
content: What would be *really* interesting is if this isn't superconductivity at all, but some different, so-far unobserved phenomenon...

author: jt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 04:10:11 pm
content: For those more knowledgeable than I - is there fundamental physics that indicates superconductivity can not exist at room temperature, or is there optimism that we will one day discover room temperature superconductive materials?

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 04:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: jt on July 27, 2023, 04:10:11 pmSC @ RT has been observed and proven already in certain substances, but at very high pressure only.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 05:06:32 pm
content: There are no fundamental things to no allow superconductivity at room temperature. However it can not work in a conventional simple metal. It needs special structures like a layered (2 D) or similar materials.As far as I understood the article they claim to have internal stress in the material in this way zones with a kind of local high pressure / distorted latice that can ac a bit like a high pressure.The claimed measurements cover many aspects of superconductivity: magnetic suceptibility, heat capacity (not a clear result), electric conductity - so if these are not fake data it very much looks like superconductity. The video part showing the repulsion is however poorly made with too much fast movements - so even a normal metal could act of a moving magnet via eddy currents. The special point with a SC is that it also work with DC and not just AC.From my feeling the critical current density is rather low and maybe only for a fraction of the material actually gets superconducting. The conductivity suggests enough to get the perfect electrical conductivity and thus no big gaps (the SC current can tunnel over short gaps and thus no need to get true perculation of a superconducting phase.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 08:14:19 pm
content: I've googled a little bit, and I found several sceptical notes, same arguments as mine:https://physicsworld.com/a/have-scientists-in-korea-discovered-the-first-room-temperature-ambient-pressure-superconductor/In Germany, from IWF, Institute for Solid State and Material Research Dresden, they came to a ruinous conclusion, by Nicola Poccia, research group leader @ LIWF:' On basis of the experimental proofs in those not yet peer reviewed papers, my first quick reaction is, that this is not a super-conductor'The experiment might be erroneous. 'What can be observed, is probably an experimental artefact, mixed with lack of scientific diligence, in best case.The presentation of their data is confusing, so that it is difficult to draw a final conclusion in this state.'I've intensively done research on those YBCO and similar cuprates, 35years ago, by means of one of the first HP3458A, used for harmonic analysis of the AC susceptibility.And I have seen a lot of samples..That's the reason why I'm more and more reluctant about their paper.We'll see.Frank

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2023, 08:39:11 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on July 27, 2023, 01:57:54 pmThats shown in figure 5 in the first paper..."Figure 5 shows the temperature dependence of the resistivity of sample 2 (4.8 x 10.1 x 1.2mm) measured at 30 mA by the four-probe method"Its not uncommon to leave out setup photos or steps if they are thought to be well-known.Anyway there is some resistance step at 40C in the measurements which is kinda odd.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 01:23:12 am
content: The paper in question:https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2307/2307.12037.pdfI smell BS

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 01:23:52 am
content: Anton Petrov did a video on it:

author: benbradley
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 02:11:12 am
content: So what on Earth could possibly be more BS than this superconductor announcement?#congressionalhearings

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 03:21:27 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 26, 2023, 09:34:40 pmThis is the very first thing I thought as well. In fact, I dug out some neodymium magnets I have and located an aluminium knob which I hung on a piece of cotton ... and did a quick video. It took me all of 1 minute to set up with materials I had within reach while sitting at my desk.QuoteI am quite surprised as well that there has been as much conversation as we have seen that:1. Makes no reference to Lenz's law or even eddy currents2. Does not question the relevance of the video to the claim. I see absolutely none, other than a possible attempt to wow the uninformed.I add my own facepalm:

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 06:58:28 am
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on July 27, 2023, 08:14:19 pmRealistically, how long till someone could verify their results? According to the paper, the manufacture should be reasonably doable with common-ish lab tech.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 07:11:50 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on July 25, 2023, 09:46:52 pmOh, I missed that that video was from the lab and purports to show the superconducting material?LOL, yeah, tons of things are going to do that!

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 08:00:20 am
content: Quote from: daqq on July 28, 2023, 06:58:28 amIt could be relatively fast to reproduce, but there could still be minute differences that could explain a negative (no SC) result.The alternative would be sending out a sample to an independent lab.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 08:54:58 am
content: "Is the room temperature superconductor paper legit?"Poll says NOPEhttps://manifold.markets/fortenforge/is-the-room-temperature-superconduc

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 09:30:56 am
content: Quote from: bitwelder on July 28, 2023, 08:54:58 amYeah, they didn't believe cold fusion was real either!

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 10:41:28 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 28, 2023, 03:21:27 amI don't think anyone really cares about the video, it just isn't very relevant one way or the other. Ultimately, the important parts are the susceptibility, resistance and specific heat measurements, so that's what people are discussing.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 10:46:22 am
content: Luckily that person has plastic gloves on because shit will be flying in that room soonI was checking the conductivity graph yes they have an bump around 41°C but also the values on the scale seem high to me, if i'm not mistaken in that graph lead would also be on that zero line.2.2×10-7 ohm meter (unit is a factor 100 but still, 0.000022 ohm cm,0.002210-2 ohm cm)Graph from PDF but I deleted the 'change graph' inside it

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 10:57:17 am
content: Nothing new is real, until it is.Just have to wait and hope someone can reproduce it and confirm superconductivity, or some other previously unknown new effect. Either would be great.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 12:56:53 pm
content: If it's not a superconductor maybe it can be useful as an inrush current limiter.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 01:41:16 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 28, 2023, 10:41:28 amThe issue I have is why the video was even presentedatall. Anybody even vaguely familiar with the principles involved will know there is no need for superconductivity to explain the behaviour.The only purpose I can see is to "wow the uninformed" - which leads me to think the whole exercise is bulls**t.If, in the unlikely event, it is real, then they really need a technically savvy publicist who can get a useful demonstration video together.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 03:24:07 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 28, 2023, 01:41:16 pmYou'd have to ask them. As a basic sanity check, it certainly makes sense to check that the sample is repelled by a magnet. They may simply have wanted to document that - badly in this case because it isn't really clear from the video. But someone linked a different video that shows (partial) levitation above a magnet, so I don't think there is any doubt that the material is at the very least strongly diamagnetic.I don't know if this was maybe rushed out, the papers aren't exactly polished either (to put it mildly). In the end the only thing that matters is if it can be replicated or not. If it holds up, we will eventually get a proper peer-reviewed paper. If it doesn't, ...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 09:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 28, 2023, 01:41:16 pmDid you read the title of the video? "Magnetic Property Test of LK-99 Film".It doesn't say "proof video of superconductivity!!! *WOW* MUST SEE"Its a simple test showing the magnetic properties of the material, that is it, as I stated above already.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 10:46:40 pm
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on July 28, 2023, 10:39:09 pmThis twit says you can't make wires from a ceramic. I don't get why not. "Wires" come in many forms. They don't have to be flexible. They simply need a specific shape. Don't we make ceramics in many shapes? A coil can be made from a block of material, by cutting, no?I recall some years back, a company formed actual wires by putting the superconductor in a tube, and drawing it into a small diameter wire. I suppose the superconductor would fracture, but as long as it is touching adjacent pieces, it would still conduct, no?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 10:51:18 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 28, 2023, 10:46:40 pmIt's almost as silly as a glass wire.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 11:20:09 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on July 28, 2023, 10:51:18 pmhttps://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=ceramic+wire

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 11:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 28, 2023, 11:20:09 pmThat's metal wire with ceramic fibre insulation. Wires are made from metal, by definition.

author: benbradley
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2023, 11:59:58 pm
content: The word wire is a non-sequitur. Conductor, whether metallic or not, would be a better word. Superconductor would be the best word, but we don't know yet.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 12:35:32 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 28, 2023, 01:41:16 pmAgreed. It's absolutely embarressing to even make such a video, let alone present it. AND the video is unlisted and there are no videos on their channel, and the comments are turned off.Regards of how potentially good any of the other research is, this cannot be excused, so you have to assume it's all bullshit as the default position.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 12:48:06 am
content: My favourite.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 01:32:11 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 28, 2023, 09:23:18 pmBut I still ask, what was the purpose of this video? That it is not ferromagnetic and that it is a conductor to some degree? So what? There are a bucketload of such materials that have no claim to superconductivity in any sense. The video distinguishes this material no more than a strip of copper or aluminium.To me, it's the equivalent of showing a video of an egg being dropped and splattering on the floor in the midst of a discussion on galactic scale gravitational waves.It is entirely pointless, IMHO.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 05:12:45 am
content: It's more likely the person in charge of maintaining the website is not an engineer or scientist and grabbed videos from the file server to create the website without a complete understanding of what the videos were showing.Rather than someone who's employed as an engineer/scientist actually thinking it was showing superconductivity.At least I hope so.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 05:37:00 am
content: I watched about half and couldn't take it anymore. How many times can we sniff the air, claiming this is BS?This is just like the submersible implosion, where there is very little info to go on, but it doesn't stop people from speculating wildly.Just as this video repeatedly judges the evidence of this new superconductor as being inadequate, no one seems to pay attention to the fact that there is no real evidence the superconductor is not real and that more evidence will be forthcoming.A paper has been published. Others will try to duplicate the results. Other papers will be published about the results. That's the scientific process. Eventually there will be a common opinion by the scientific community, regarding the reality of these results. An opinion will be formed, by people who work with this stuff every day and know what they are doing.Until then, I can't see any value in everybody and his brother throwing stones at the little info that is available.Just like the Titanic submersible. We will know, when the experts let us know and not before.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 06:41:49 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 29, 2023, 05:37:00 amYou don't get to publish that type of demo video on the front page of your website and not get called out for how ridiculous and embarrassing it is.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 06:58:23 am
content: Agreed. It was total fail and should be called out.But I think it's unfair to call it a scam or busted until after others have tried to replicate it and failed.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 07:16:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 29, 2023, 06:41:49 amIf you say so. I'm trying to point out that this discussion is not really accomplishing anything. We aren't adding anything of value to the matter.I guess I should just not worry about it. We will likely have more info in the next few weeks. It does take time to attempt to duplicate the results of the paper. If there are no results, it could be a mistake by the researchers, so they will make serious attempts to work with the original authors to see what they might be doing wrong. This takes time.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 07:19:43 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 29, 2023, 06:58:23 amWhile I don't disagree, that video was - at the very least - a disservice.I will be waiting......

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 08:45:20 am
content: The law of hypothesis:H0It is not trueH1It isprovenby independent evidence to be trueWhich in the competitive world of venture funded research mutates into:H0We know it is trueH1Our evidence needs no proofIn fairness, maybe they should have published their results as an anomalous observation and asked other reputable institutions to reproduce their methods; before any conclusions became social media clickbait. But no money and fame in that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 09:54:41 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 29, 2023, 07:16:40 amReally? You think there is no value in people pointing out the ridiculousness of themain demo video on their website?The world is going ape over this announcement, their website is being swapped with so much traffic it has to shut off.The majority of people talking about this will not be aware of how ridiculous that demo is.As I said in my video, there may very well be something to this, but they are not getting let off the hook for that video, no chance.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 09:56:06 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 29, 2023, 06:58:23 amI did not call it a scam, and was even generous toward the research at the end of the video.I was clearly busting the main video on their website.Call it clickbait if you want, that's fine by me. But I don't see it as much different to any of my existing BUSTED videos.Solar roadways, uBeam etc are not totally useless, they are just overhyped marketing bullshit, not unlike the demo video here.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 12:12:00 pm
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK-99

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 03:19:44 pm
content: Thanks Dave for finding the reference, that the disc where they claimed to sputter the sample film onto, was made from copper.That video therefore indicates, that it was not done by the scientists themselves.. as they probably would have known about the induction effect.For proof of SC, you need consistent measurements of resistivity, and magnetic measurements, like my complex susceptibility.The authors here show a very steep step in resistivity, but a very broad step in the magnetization.That does not fit together at all, it's unclear why they would have chosen such a relatively high magnetic field H.An AC susceptibility measurement would have been better for demonstration, as you could compensate for the DC magnetic field of the earth, and you could have chosen a very small probing ac field as of ~ 100nT. Both papers are therefore very badly prepared.BTW.: The first, Nobel Prize winning paper by Bednorz and Mueller in June 1986 was very carefully titled "Possiblehigh T c superconductivity in the Ba−La−Cu−O system", containing very mediocre resistivity measurements as well.Frank

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 04:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on July 29, 2023, 03:19:44 pmLucky guys - no internet, no google, no twitter, no facebook, no eevblog, etc., etc. at that time..Btw I still remember the "Cold-Fusion" discovery where we were running around our Uni looking for a bottle of heavy water to try as well. It was also in late 80ties..PS: March 1989 imhohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 05:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 29, 2023, 09:54:41 amNo, I don't.QuoteAnd you are doing the same thing.Every time there is something newsworthy, the media gets fired up and reports the same info over and over again. That's the nature of the news business. Some of us also get over excited over all the reporting. That only feeds the frenzy further.I think it is best to simply discuss the facts of the matter and ignore the sillier aspects, such as this video.This conversation reminds me of the scene from 2001, where the primates are jumping up and down, screaming at each other, in their form of fighting. I'm waiting for someone here to pick up a femur.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 05:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 29, 2023, 09:56:06 amThe video you are complaining about, is not remotely, any form of proof of their claims. They've published a paper, and the scientific process is underway to verify, or dispute it.This conversation is part of the side show, having nothing to do with the main event. This is the two headed calf in a jar.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 10:28:03 pm
content: What I like about this particular story is that for the first time in quite a while, scientists are acting like scientists. Being critical and skeptical is a joy to behold.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 11:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 28, 2023, 01:23:52 amLooking at the photo in the video above:I can say 2 things...1. I used to play with pennies on speaker magnets when I was young and I could occasionally get 1 or 2 coins to slightly stand at an angle if placed down and oriented 2 to 3 pennies just right. If this material isn't evenly magnetically distributed across it's surface, this effect could be a fluke.2. I've seen examples of diamagnetic materials, the effect shown is a little too strong for the run of the mil diamagnetic materials, if it wasn't for their other super blunder video, I might be forced to say they may have the beginning of something, but don't have a clue as to the required refinement component which makes it work or how to replicate. Basically what you see here is the sole semi-functional sample in existence and they have yet to replicate anything larger than what you see.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 09:12:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 29, 2023, 09:56:06 amIt was the 'busted' in the title that I was talking about.Only if someone watches the video do they find out the title was clickbait.The difference is where a video is talking about brand new science that is on very shaky ground and could get labeled fake and easily burried. In this case there's no problem since 100's of people are likely trying to reproduce the results as we speak. But that is not always the case.I don't disagree, with anything you said.I just worry in general that we, humanity, might miss some great discovery because well-known scientists or people with influence jump to saying things like "It's totally impossible" or "It's a scam/fraud" without even trying to reproduce it. I do understand why, because 99.99% of the time if is fake, a scam, or just wrong, but that doesn't make it ok the 0.01% of times it's not and gets labeled as such and never investigated.Quote from: pickle9000 on July 29, 2023, 10:28:03 pmyep, spot on. Critical and skeptical is exactly the right way to approach a claim like this.I just get annoyed when the word scam/fake/busted gets thrown around without any evidence to back that up.When scam/fake/busted get thrown around one could argue there is more evidence that it's real because that at-least has a scientific paper behind it, a claim that it's fake/impossible/scam without any evidence has nothing behind it at all.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 10:02:34 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 30, 2023, 09:12:29 amThe LK-99 group were indeed BUSTED by making and promoting that video. It's as laughably BUSTED as anything else I've done.And you didn't have to watch the vidoe to find out what the BUSTED part refered to, if you actually read the description you'd know.Take the Batteriser for example, their marketing claims were BUSTED, but the ASIC chip they produced is real and actually has real use in the industry."BUSTED" is the title people expect when I expose something dumb in a product.You and others would probably (not probably, I know for a fact because it's happened countless times) still complain if I made the title more lengthy and explainatory. Like "Korean LK-99 Ambient Temperature Superconductor Demo Video BUSTED!"I even used an accurate thumbnail that showed the thing I was busting.Sorry, but if you are too lazy to read the description then I'm not going to take your complaint seriously.QuoteI made no such claims. I busted the laughable video and that was it. In fact I was rather generous toward the possibility there may be something to this in the video.

author: rteodor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 11:30:21 am
content: Maybe this is a language barrier thing. You know, they have something with better conductivity and in the next iteration they will get even higher conductivity and call ithyperconductor... and in the next theultraconductor... and then switch to letters because they ran out of superlatives. Like with the naming of the radio bands.Superconductivity in their minds would mean just better conductivity instead of zero resistance in ours.If this is true, then I can only lay down on my chair and think: what social-media did to our brains ?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 11:40:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 30, 2023, 10:02:34 amOps, i just rechecked the video and it was the text in the thumbnail image that I was referring too.The "Superconductor Busted" text makes the claim that the superconductor is busted.Is it just clickbait, sure, but it's also making a general claim that the superconductor everyone is hearing about is busted, unless one investigates the video or description further to find out its just a specific video.I've never been a big fan of clickbait in general.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 01:04:28 am
content: Quote from: rteodor on July 30, 2023, 11:30:21 amWhile your attempt to reconcile the various parties may be well intended, I beg to differ.As I understand it, the term "superconductivity" has a very clear meaning and has had for more than a century. As such, anyone - especially those working in the field - should be very familiar with that meaning. While there can be issues with language barriers, whatever word, phrase or pictographs are used to denote it, this is a concept that is very well established. To use the term in any way other than this is disingenuous at best, if not straight out deceptive. IMHOThese days, even the public who have half an idea about the subject will be expecting the same thing as those with a PhD.I know what I am waiting for to either prove or disprove the claim.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 06:04:02 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 30, 2023, 11:40:37 amThe problems are:a)everyYoutuber always does "click bait". You have to stand out from every other video out there.b) You have to include in your thumbnail stuff that is relevant to the video and nothing more so it's not unreadable. So the more lengthy example of "Superconductor Demo Video" gets shortened to just "Superconductor" so it's actually visible and (along with the description) people know it's at least related the recent superconductor news.c) It doesn't matter what we put in the thumbnail, the title, the pinned comment, or the desciption, there will always,ALWAYSbe someone who complains that it's "clickbait".e.g. if I actually put "Superconductor Demo Video" in the thumbnail, there would be people who wouldn't complain that I did actually try to make the superconductor.So ironically we have to make "clickbait" in way that does not waste people's time clicking on it.There is absolutely no way I can do a thumbnail or title for this thing without SOME people being upset that it's "click bait" and not what they were expecting, one way or the other.If I left out the word debunk, I'd get people complaining I didn't call it debunk, because I clearly debunked the demo video, 100%, no question.If I include the word debunk then I get people upset that it's not debunking the ENITRE THING.It's impossible.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 09:47:29 am
content: There should really be an online journal for paper verification (fail or success).A few years back there was a similar hype about pyrolithic graphite. I'm sure a lot of labs tried and failed to replicate, but all that's in the open is the original papers and not write ups of the failed trials to replicate.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 09:51:09 am
content: They changed the video description!It's no longer a copper plate, it's an enriched uranium 235 plate!I'm no chemist, but it's a very strange material choice to demonstrate your superconductor film. And it's one of the most controlled materials on earth, so the cynic in me says it's very convenient if you don't want people to verify.I can't help but think they are just taking the piss in response to my video.In that case it's rather funny and I tip my tap to the joke. But when the whole world is questioning the credibility of your research, is that such a good idea?But I'm open to someone explaining why you'd use enriched uranium 235 for such a thing?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 12:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2023, 09:51:09 am

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 12:34:33 pm
content: I thought a scientist would know a difference between copper and uranium when originally published the video.Now you nuclear experts please tell why it was needed to use uranium carrier for testing magnetic property of a material. Why not to deposit the material on a piece of paper?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 12:41:56 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on July 31, 2023, 12:34:33 pmI'm no scientist ... but ... isn't the disc the wrong colour for uranium?

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 01:36:50 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 31, 2023, 12:41:56 pmPictures of U235 discs show that it is of grey color, similar to lead.Why should they use enriched U235, which is commonly known to be used for atomic bombs?That makes no sense, and I can't see any real physical reason for using such a critical substance.At that time, we have DC-sputtered our YBCO films on pre-heated ceramic substrates of SrTiO3for ac measurements of resistivity and susceptibility.The acceleration of the particles towards the substrate worked well, despite the latter is non-conductive.That might be a reason why one wants to use a metal as a substrate for the deposited film, but copper is quite fine for that purpose.So if they changed the description right now, that is not a good sign in regard of "scientific conduct".. and U235 could as well show the very same induction effect like copper.Frank

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 01:47:50 pm
content: The screenshot does not appear to be from the video included in the OP (nor from the same channel). That one was posted in January, has more than 150k views and still says "copper plate" for me. I don't know if Dave is just having some fun or someone else is. Either way, U235 is obviously just trolling.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 02:11:35 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 31, 2023, 01:47:50 pmExplained here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1555-lk99-ambient-temperature-superconductor-busted!/msg4989862/#msg4989862It's not me, there are two legit q-centre channels with verified business email addresses at their domain name.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 02:28:43 pm
content: Someone on twitter mention you can change your youtube channel business email address without re-verifcation?If so then I suspect the troll is either a member of this forum or a viewer...

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 04:12:05 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on July 31, 2023, 01:36:50 pmThis is the failure in the analysis of this video. This video is not part of the scientific paper about LK-99. It's something posted on Youtube that no one really knows much about. Presently, it's a lightning rod for criticism, only because the people doing the criticizing don't have the chops to discuss the research paper.This is no different from the discussion about the Titan submersible. Lots of discussion, but very little information.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 08:45:57 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 31, 2023, 04:12:05 pmThat's kind of the whole problem.- The communication from the authors is non-existent- the site's offline whenever I look at it due to excessive traffic- the videos are unlisted and at best document strange things that are not that telling of superconductivity- instead of sending samples to other institutions that could easily and quickly verify their claims, we're getting nothing- ...If this turns out to be a real superconductor, it might just be the most poorly initially communicated thing to ever win the Nobel Prize.I really want this to be real - I really want a Josephson Junction standard on my desk

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 09:00:32 pm
content: I want perpetual motion on my desk.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 09:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 31, 2023, 04:12:05 pmAt first, those are no "Research Papers", as those document appeared on a random archive server, not on an official physics or material research journal.It was also not officially submitted for Peer Review, and they are lacking meta data about the status of this research, like date of publishing, where to be published, and so on.I guess, I judged these, let's say 'preliminary' papers by scientifically analyzing the content based on the elaborate research we've done decades ago. That's enough of expertise to be very sceptical in this case.Today I've found several measurements of resistivity and susceptibility from identical samples of sputtered YBCO films from way back then, which fit together in Tcand shape of the SC transition.I only can stress the fact, that in this case, especially their magnetic measurements were mediocre, and do not fit at all to the rest. They also give no explanation on that diverging behavior.Frank

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 10:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on July 31, 2023, 08:45:57 pmWhy not sit back, relax, and wait for the full story to come out?I see the posts about the Titan submersible have finally petered out. That was literally 99% imagination and 1% posting of information.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 11:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on July 31, 2023, 09:10:06 pmWhen did I ever use the word "fraud"?It was literally the #1 news story trending in science.I wasn't actually going to do a vidoe on this until I actually saw the videopromoted on the front page of their own commercial website.This wasnota video that was leaked and shared around virally.When you promote stuff on your commercial web site then you are absolutely open to criticisim of that, no ifs no buts.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 11:14:53 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on July 31, 2023, 04:12:05 pmIt ispromoted by THEM on their OWN website front page. Why should this be out of bounds for criticism? Why?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 11:32:31 pm
content: Nothing wrong with criticism, and the video in question warranted lots of it!Potential collateral damage of new discoveries is the only thing I have any issues with, but in this case there is no risk of any collateral damage. The discovery is being replicated currently (or attempted) and we will find out if it's real or not.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 11:39:36 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on July 31, 2023, 11:32:31 pmExactly. I do not understand the criticism of my video from this standpoint.The "clickbait" claim, and people expecting to see me to "bust" the whole thing, I can at least undersatnd where people are coming from.But I've had people basically telling me to shut up and that I shouldn't have a posted a video at all even mentioning that demo video. As if they are protecting some sacred cow I dared criticise in any way.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 11:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2023, 11:39:36 pmI think most of the criticism of your video came from that, but there will always be the 'crazies' who take issue when someone says the sky is blue. And any new discovery or fringe science always attracts more of those.The video just seemed too get more criticism than a typical busting video because the two groups were mixed together.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 12:36:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2023, 09:51:09 amRandom gamma rays would certainly do something to the test results. If not turn the test equipment into low grade radioactive waste. Anyway, UE is not something they stock on DigiKey, so I'm wondering where they purchased it from? Just sayingRe the video: can they take their evidence to ajury? A jury comprised of jurors who know the Earth is round and that Apollo did land on the moon? Of course not. Good jurors will ask questions of the scientific and technical evidence presented before coming to a verdict. So unless there is immutable proof that convinces this public jury, maybe they should get on a bike and go ride that solar freekin' roadway back to the land where free energy is in perpetual motion.Keep calling out

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 12:42:09 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2023, 11:12:44 pmThe word 'busted' implies fraud, scam, misdeed - or whatever other word you want to imply that but be able to say you haven't used - has been outed. And it's not even a diplomatic way of implying it.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 01:06:31 pm
content: "First claimed successful replication of LK-99"https://twitter.com/Andercot/status/1686286684424691712

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 01:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on July 31, 2023, 11:32:31 pmOnly because you are reading into it what you want. The video has virtually no attached text and says nothing itself. It's silly to make such a big deal of this video.QuoteWe will know, when we know. Until then, this thread (and the other one) is just gossiping over the back fence.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 01:40:28 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on August 01, 2023, 01:06:31 pmAnother video. I wonder when someone will have the appropriate measurements needed to actually validate or refute this material?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 02:11:56 pm
content: Ignoring LK-99 for a moment, there have been a few papers published recently suggesting graphite is a granular superconductor ... the idea refuses to die.Comparing the diamagnetism of LK-99 to pyrolithic graphite might not be a good argument against superconductivity. Maybe the diamagnetism there was due to superconductivity all along.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 03:52:44 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2023, 01:40:28 pmPerhaps some of these videos (and other things) are posted because the poster isn't sure what they mean, and comments such as we've seen in this thread clarifies the applicability (or not) of the material. For instance, in the Other Thread there were posts of various tubes of different materials being crushed in inappropriate ways, but a non-expert may not realise that and wonder how it might be relevant. By posting in the thread they would get better info, and learn something new to boot.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 08:19:47 pm
content: LK-99 sounds like the name of an assault rifle.So, nomination for the Nobel prize yet?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2023, 09:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 01, 2023, 01:40:28 pmThere were two links, but sounds like its all simulations as to how it might function,https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.16892.pdfhttps://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.16040.pdfhttps://twitter.com/Andercot/status/1686215574177841152Quote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 10:21:10 am
content: Comments on the simulation:https://twitter.com/MichaelSFuhrer/status/1686267690770739200

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 10:45:18 am
content: It's possible it's a granular superconductor, with resistance measurements seeing a series of josephson junctions.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 10:56:47 am
content: moreeee newshttps://www.fastcompany.com/90932066/team-claims-to-successfully-replicate-lk-99-superconductor

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 12:14:02 pm
content: It's going to be a while before we get any hard scientific data on this, assuming it's legit.If it is legit I expect we'll probably see a lot more positive evidence coming from amateur/backyard scientists first. Well before any official scientific data. Writing papers and getting them reviewed takes ages.Of course the problem with amateur/backyard scientist data is you need to filter out all the crazies and all the people doing fake stuff for clicks.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 12:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 02, 2023, 12:14:02 pmthat's going to be 99% of the internet

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 01:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: deepfryed on August 02, 2023, 10:56:47 amThat's another B.S. article of a science journalists who have half baked knowledge at most.First off, it must clearly be emphasized, that this levitation effect is no real evidence for SC at all, it could be as well a simple diamagnetic behavior.Therefore all following statements, that this could be a sign of proof, is misleading.Second, even the older High Tctype II superconductors did not give a technological breakthrough, as their magnetic properties were too weak to provide SC wires with good properties at liquid nitrogen temperature. To make wires out of Perovskit Ceramics is also extremely difficult, compared to the traditional metallic superconductors. I've heard of some projects using such wires for energy transfer, but I doubt that it is really an industrial application. (*)It's also not possible to produce mono crystalline and stable layers / structures for Josephson Junction or other Quantum devices.There was an approach for a JJA from the Jülich Research Center (linked to Aachen and Cologne Universities), the laboratory sample also worked quite ok, demonstrating the existence of Shapiro-steps, but that paper is maybe over 20 years old, and I did not hear anything that you could commercially buy such a device. Would have been great for all of us volt-nuts.With increasing jump temperature, the magnetic "hardness" (pinning of magnetic field lines) gets worse and worse. So a room temperature superconductor would have even worse characteristics, I guess.Third, the Nobel Price was also not granted for already existing RT SCs at high pressure, so it's very unlikely that there would be even a nomination.It might be of academic interest only, but it would not yield new physics and no new revolutionary application as such articles imply.Think how the discoveries of the Blue LED, the Li system for batteries, the GMR (Giant Magnetic Resistance, Peter Grünberg et al, as well from Jülich) for high capacity HDs, the LASER really changed our lives. That is not to be expected at all from a new class of superconductors.There's too much hype and wishful thinking inside this story.Frank(*) The City of Munich is planning a 12km long High Voltage line to transfer energy from a power plant to a south access point.German company THEVA advertises to have working SC cables with Gd, but the latter project is still in evaluation phase , since 3 years.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 04:14:01 pm
content: QuoteAll of those are, to the end user, just better previous products. Blue LEDs are brighter and less boring red ones. Li batteries are longer lasting and more powerful previous ones, etc. (I know it's much more than that, but to the end user with stuff on his desk, that's how it looks.)Ignoring whether or not this alleged superconductor is real, how would a room temperature superconductor affect the end user? That is, what kind of cool product might he have on his desk that either isn't available now or would be much better?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 06:40:13 pm
content: If nothing else, a cheap room temperature superconductor would be nice for magnetic shielding.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 08:10:34 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on August 02, 2023, 04:14:01 pmRubbish! White LEDs are basically a blue LED plus a phosphor. And white LEDs have revolutionised lighting!

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 08:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on August 02, 2023, 08:10:34 pmYou're getting technical. To the user they are just brighter and nicer than the previous ones.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 08:13:55 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on August 02, 2023, 06:40:13 pmSure, but what could you use that for? I mean, what does the average bod need to shield? You don't even need to worry about TV distortion from a carelessly placed super-magnet nowadays.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2023, 08:15:15 pm
content: Two teams were unable to replicate:https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.16402https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.16802Sounds like they said their sample wouldn't levitate at all.Quote

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 07:20:45 am
content: Quote from: nfmax on August 02, 2023, 08:10:34 pmYes, it's moved the cost of lighting from electricity to installation and maintenance. Net savings: zero. What a fucking con

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 08:19:24 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on August 03, 2023, 07:20:45 amThe LED technology didn't do that, all the manufactures making LED stuff designed to fail did.They simply run them way to hot. Driver and LEDs.Build your own LED lighting and avoid that issue. Good quality LED strip lighting is one option. Keep its temp under 50C and it will last 20 years. Maybe more.Or you can even just disassemble off the shelf LED lamps (kind that fail often) and change the resistor/cap to reduce the brightness and get the heat under control. Then they will last at least 4x longer

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 09:03:22 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 03, 2023, 08:19:24 amNot sure what you are going on about. LED bulbs work just fine. But they can't tolerate high temperatures, they are electronics, like your phone or PC. But people forget that their light fixtures were designed for incandescent bulbs which only work when they are very hot. So the recessed ceiling fixtures that allow no cooling will result in premature overheating failure. Same with bulbs enclosed under globes. It's up to the user to use them properly.QuoteNot the makers, the users.QuoteOnly if you give them adequate ventilation.QuoteOr, just install them where they can get air flow.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 09:07:47 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on August 02, 2023, 04:14:01 pmFor all the mentioned technologies, Nobel Prices have been granted, because they really revolutionized our daily life; that's been the reasoning of the Nobel Prize committee.Your statement about Blue LEDs is complete nonsense.Only these made white light available for portable and battery driven devices.Only Li batteries also made all these portable devices useable.I.e. there would be no smart phones w/o both inventions.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 09:22:09 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 03, 2023, 09:03:22 amI was commenting on AVGresponding saying that the LED lighting revolution was a con because they fail so often.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 09:57:55 am
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on August 03, 2023, 09:07:47 amEr, that's what I was asking - what equivalent nice thing(s) would the end user experience because of room temperature superconductors? That is, to be clear because it seems to need to be made clear, what existing product would be made much better? Or new product brought into existence?I can see perfectly well what effect LEDs and Li batteries have had. For instance, I buy electric garden tools now instead of petrol-powered ones, and LEDs aren't just indicators now but actual useful lights. But for superconductor... I am lost as to what difference that would make to my day-to-day life and toy depository.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 10:14:34 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 03, 2023, 09:22:09 amI was commenting on the false statements you appeared to be making.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 02:14:14 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 03, 2023, 09:22:09 amIn fact that wasn't what I said at all; I said the installation and maintenance costs have increased.MTBF is a problem yes, but the more serious issue is that replacement lamps are now a thing of the past; entire fittings and in some cases entire rooms and floors of fittings have to be replaced, because manufacturers force obsolescence.Note that I'm talking about commercial and industrial applications here.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 02:56:49 pm
content: In a competitive market manufacturers do what customers let them get away with.They could/should standardize some new 48V DC sockets for LED bulbs, but apparently the customers on average don't care. One really big customer could force the issue. Just create some procurement offers for spot lights and linear with new 48V DC specific sockets and once the ball gets rolling it won't stop, it just makes too much sense. CFLs got new sockets for linear lamps, why the hell haven't LEDs? Because the large industrial customers are stupid.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 03:17:33 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on August 03, 2023, 09:57:55 amI'm glad I'm not the only one for whom the answer to this isn't completely obvious.My first guess would be that it might improve the performance and/or efficiency of CPUs / GPUs, if it can be incorporated into ICs in the form of an interconnect layer in place of aluminium or copper. There's a lot of process engineering involved there, though; if it's not straightforward to incorporate into existing wafer production processes, it'll simply never happen.Slightly easier might be replacing bond wires for power electronics - but again, lots of engineering required to replace a ductile gold wire with a brittle ceramic material.There will be desktop toys galore, obviously. Toy maglev trains, inverted monorails, that kind of thing.Or it may be a complete non-starter, not because it doesn't work, but because it contains lead. Since people seem to have become completely incapable of understanding the concept of a trade-off, especially where environmental issues are concerned, it may just end up being banned from useful applications 'because lead'.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 05:42:08 pm
content: nice summary of fails and partial success in reproducinghttps://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/claims-of-room-temperature-and-ambient-pressure-superconductor.1106083/page-11https://twitter.com/ppx_sds/status/1686790365641142279110K is still very cold though.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 06:57:07 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on August 03, 2023, 03:17:33 pmI've never heard anyone say the resistivity of copper or aluminum produced much heat in ICs. The energy used is mostly from charging/discharging capacitors.Or are you talking about some other problem? I doubt it would impact the speed much. I expect most of the resistance in the RC is from the channel driving the trace.QuoteLead is not banned. Lead in throw away, consumer items is banned. The military and various exempt uses are excluded. The point is, lead needs to be collected and removed from the waste stream, rather than thrown in a dump. A local conservation club got a shooting range to change their layout, after they were able to scoop up handfuls of lead pellets from the stream behind it. That's the sort of negligence we need to end.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 07:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on August 03, 2023, 03:17:33 pmI guess I could manage with just those. Could be some big improvements over marble machines!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 07:31:31 pm
content: A true room-temperature semiconductor with reasonable current and magnetic field capability would reduce copper loss in utility-system transformers (although there are other losses there including core loss).A commercial from the copper industry:https://www.copper.org/environment/sustainable-energy/transformers/education/trans_ad.html

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2023, 09:08:35 pm
content: Quote from: KedasProbe on August 03, 2023, 05:42:08 pmGood table. One cool thing is some teams were able to get a resulting material that levitated really well, so the material is already shown to be unique in some way.QuoteQuote

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 05:02:10 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 03, 2023, 10:14:34 amOk, fair enough, I should have said "most" instead of "all". I know there are some LED lighting manufactures that sell good products.I was not suggesting that manufacturers are having design meetings on how to get their devices to fail just outside of the warranty in order to sell more. Or they're testing them to ensure they do fail soon after warranty.I'm saying they are choosing their product design requirements based on their chosen product lifespan and they are doing that process wrong. Lifespan requirements in the design process should be determined by a cost/benefit analysis from the users perspective, not the sellers perspective. If you can add $0.05 of extra parts to a product with $2 BOM cost and that will make it last twice as long then you should do that. Not doing that means you are designing it to fail prematurely.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 05:58:05 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 04, 2023, 05:02:10 amI hate reading stuff like this. You essentially claim that "most" manufacturers actually go to the trouble of designing the product to be a time bomb, rather than simply minimizing the product cost, which sets the minimum selling price. Yet, You offer zero evidence of anything you say. What $0.05 worth of parts will make an LED bulb last twice as long?Whatever. People believe what they want to believe and there is little in the way of facts or evidence, that will change their minds.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 07:15:11 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on August 03, 2023, 07:20:45 amWhat utter bullshit.Even ifyou consider all the bullshit low quality LED fixtures, the lifetime increased so much that installation and maintenance costs have plummeted. You just don't remember the days of 1000-hour incandescents and crap quality "10000" so actually 2000-hour CFLs which had exactly the same issues with their aging electronics as crap quality LEDs except they generated more heat and died even more prematurely. Compare to that and our "50 000" so really 5000-10000 hour LEDs are a huge improvement.In the past changing a lightbulb was a monthly endeavor. CFLs offered only limited relief; they could not be used everywhere as they took so long to light up and did not work in cold, and still faded to significantly reduced brightness during the first 1000 hours so you had to replace all those "60W equivalent 11W" things prematurely, generating a lot of unnecessary waste. After LEDs came out my maintenance time went down by more than an order of magnitude, now I have to change a lightbulb maybe once a year. (If the LEDs lived up to their specifications, that would be even more rarely, but I gladly accept this 10x improvement.)

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 09:22:28 am
content: Regardless of the outcome of the LK99 saga, following it for the past 2 weeks has been better than any tv show/move I watched recently - so many plot twists and the best thing there is quite a non-zero chance that it's a real deal.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 09:31:51 am
content: Sorry? Did I miss the sex scenes?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 10:09:09 am
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on August 04, 2023, 09:22:28 amWell it's certainly opened my eyes to jusy how many people are unwilling to have anything even remotely negative said about research like this.And how quick they are to jump on even the smalled amount of news that it might be CONFIRMED! HA! TOLD YOU SO!If that demo video I busted had been on any other website and was related to anything else, everyone would have laughed their arse off at how dumb it was to publish on your website. But when it comes to this, nope, that's "just marketing", it's "not relevant", "it's an old video", "it's got nothing to do with the research group" etc etc

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 10:36:35 am
content: QuotePerhaps it's the way you tell 'em.What I mean by that is we're all aware that bad news sells. Newspapers, and especially tabloids, use bad news as clickbait. Rarely are great things pushed, and when they are there's usually some negative, because negative sells. I think that's the same with busted videos - negative sells so people flock to view diss videos regardless of merit or content.Just out of interest, when was the last "gee, this will be a great thing" video you posted? Did you ever post a video showing some thing you 'busted' that turned out not to be after all?So my contention is that when you wade in with the busted stuff you're triggering people. You can show it's likely wrong without the clickbait, and probably get better quality discourse, but of course you'd get fewer viewers.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 10:56:51 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on August 04, 2023, 09:31:51 amyup, when Kwon (it always has to be a Kwon doing some bs) tried to fu*k them over by rushing the first (Word) paper to the publication process presumably so he'd get the Nobel prize (limited to 3 persons).There's your sex scene.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 11:40:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 04, 2023, 10:09:09 amAcademia publishing has been broken for a long time for various different reasons.Team was pushed to publish without the article being completed at a standard level due to the first submission.Recreating it in labs is not easy (US has additional problems with substance control and also general lack of financial incentives for such work).Chinese researcher OTOH are under higher pressure and have been known to mass produce papers of debated quality at higher % than the western ones. (Not sure if this view is distorted through western optics or really the case) In general similarly to how Covid topic attracted a lot of researchers looking for an easy funding or a spotlight this could be the case as well.Nevertheless, the fact that there is still non-zero chance of this being something great has me excited.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 12:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on August 04, 2023, 10:36:35 amI agree with this, academics are just like anyone else in a high a pressure environment - they make mistakes or overlook things. People that sometimes publish PR stuff are not academics and can end up making a mess of things, I've worked in academia so I can attest to thatAlso hope is such a human quality, though always not rational.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 04:44:58 pm
content: Extra info and video, seems they can only make small pieces 7mm flat (brittle material)hence measuring electric resistance isn't easy.https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2308/2308.01516.pdfhttps://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14p4y1V7kS/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0&vd_source=510b6eac8fec748481fb4b933932e80c

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 04:47:04 pm
content: Quote from: deepfryed on August 04, 2023, 12:30:50 pmThis is why peer review is such an important concept in legitimate scientific publication, although it tends to be conservative.I would advise against investing money in a novelty that cannot pass peer review, but I am a very conservative investor.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 05:07:31 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on August 04, 2023, 07:15:11 amNo, I'm afraid it's you that is talking "bullshit". Just in case you missed the point, I'm talking about COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL applications, which are quite different from domestic ones.I work as a sparks for a northern metropolitan council, and have direct experience of the situation whereof I speak. The best example of this wasteful new order I can give you is the full, back to bare concrete refurb we did on one of our multi-storey office blocks, some 8 years ago now.Most of the new lighting was LED (two mezzanine floors had HF fluorescents fitted, because they worked with an automatic DALI controller), and it was mostly Philips, Cooper/Eaton for the dedicated emergency fittings, and some locally remanufactured specialist DMX compatible fittings.The first of the DMX compatible fittings failed within a day, two others followed in quick succession, but that's entirely down to the incompetence of the remanufacturer; I wouldn't hold it up as an example.The Cooper/Eaton emergency lights however, are worth mentioning. Within two years, the failure rate was nearly50%, and the manufacturer had to come and do a warranty replacement on them, and on a significant number that had been fitted a year earlier to another of our office buildings. Most, though not all, of these failures were battery/charger related.Now to the meat. The Philips fittings started to fail about 3 years in, mostly ones that had integrated emergency backup batteries, but soon after the control gears (obsolete and not compatible with anything still made), and then the LEDs within the fittings themselves. Now, these are acompletely integratedfitting, and youcannotreplace the LED. Further, they are an "architectural" design, and not a generic one, and so when one fails in an area, theyallhave to be replaced in order to maintain a homogenous appearance.This is far from a unique issue; I recently mentioned this to Big Clive and he replied with the fact that Glasgow council have also had the same problem with some rather expensive street lights. My guess is that anyone that works for a council or large business and is involved in estate maintenance will have similar stories.Quote from: gnuarm on August 04, 2023, 05:58:05 amYes, they do. This is not a secret, nor is it difficult to understand; if lights lasted as long as they could be made to, the manufacturers would go out of business from lack of sales, once everyone had all the ones they needed. Replacement sales through non-wear breakage wouldn't be enough to sustain them.The $0.05 worth of parts that could make them last twice as long is actually much much cheaper; a simple change of resistor value in the current sense of the driver would do the job, and indeed, to mention Big Clive again, he regularly posts videos of him doing exactly that.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 06:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on August 04, 2023, 05:07:31 pmNot sure who "they" are in your reply.QuoteI believe you are in the UK. From this comment, I have to assume this means your economy has zero growth. Sounds like the comments I hear from many people in the UK. Improvement is not possible. They have to continue doing things the way they've done them for a hundred years.QuoteI've never seen Big Clive test anything I can buy in a store in the US. The tests I've seen are of junk he buys from Aliexpress and such. The original claim was that all devices were designed to be crap. Psi had to step back from that. The reality is there's no proof of any of this. It's just like I've said, people believe what they want to believe. You would seem to be a perfect example. You can only offer your personal experience as "proof" of the quality of industrial equipment. The problem is, you don't realize that your argument is not valid.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 06:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on August 04, 2023, 05:07:31 pmThe starting premise was that the LED was great progress as a lighting solution.You outright called it a scam and gave an argument that has nothing to do with LEDs,What you are describing is a general trend in the industry and something (safe to say) everybody on this forum is ranting about in one way or another and trying to push against - trying to make things unrepeatable without direct involvement of the OEM, (directly and indirectly) planned obsolescence and overall pushing the consumer from a buying a product to actually buying a service - to use Doctorow's term - enshittification of tech products.But again - this has nothing to with LEDs. The incandescent lights are the OGs of this with the planned obsolescence, and if they were viable today, you would have seen further enshittification of industrial lighting even with them there. The industry would find a way.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 09:04:20 pm
content: Any news regarding this incredible groundbreaking discovery?It's apparently become viral and is currently being relayed by almost all tech blogs/channels and on social media, and more, all based on near-void.I'm hungry.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 09:13:57 pm
content: QuoteAm i having a dejavu moment... hmmm..where did I see that happening before...Ah, yes! That thing was called Theranos.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2023, 10:27:08 pm
content: So because something is viral or interesting it is instantly a scam? Makes no sense.Theranos actively deceived investors to bring in millions of dollars, based on hundreds of useless patents. At no point were other scientists replicating her tech to see how it works (as is being done here). Even if LK99 is an intentional scam, the result will come out within weeks at a relatively low price, instead of after 10 years.“Those of us that were in the legitimate diagnostic community were very puzzled by their claims without substantiating with peer reviewed publications,”https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/11/16/blood-startups-theranos/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 12:22:01 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on August 04, 2023, 10:27:08 pmIs anyone calling it an outright scam?At worst it looks like it will be just a case of being a novel find, but nothing practical will come of it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 12:28:06 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 04, 2023, 04:47:04 pmAs a practical rule of thumb, in general you can take half of all published research as being wrong.Getting it "peer reviewed" adds nothing to those odds.Obviously some things are way more certain than others based on the data and the method, but as a general rule, it's a coin flip.When it comes to "game changing" stuff like this though, the practical odds of it being true are single digit at best.Count the number of new battery technologies published and media hyped that will revolutionise the industry, it's endless. As such you can quite reliably give near zero odds to any new announcement in that field.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 01:08:49 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2023, 12:22:01 amTheranos is primarily known for being as scam, why would someone compare to Theranos unless implying intentionally misleading results. Either they made a poor analogy or don't understand the difference.Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2023, 12:28:06 amThe published battery tech (in the scientific paper itself) is usually not "false" it just ends up not commercially viable/scalable/reliable (true reliability testing could take years). I'd still be interested to hear about research, even if the tech is never practically implemented.Of course if media hypes the research that's their own problem, blame them, don't blame the scientist for posting a paper or a clip that wasn't fully thought through. Sure if they purposefully rigged the result, then have at it.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 01:37:00 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2023, 12:28:06 amWhat makes you say that ? I'd say peer review adds confidence and depending on who does the peer review (journal, research group / university) the level of confidence varies. This is especially true when replicating experimental results / observations. It may be a coin flip if you take the whole body of research across the world but I think that distribution is definitely not uniform.Commercialisation of the findings / discovery is a different question altogether and I agree with you, it may not be something that's commercially viable and practical to make a difference. We'll have to wait and see, I'm cautiously optimistic.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 02:50:39 am
content: The discovery is currently not looking good at all, but I don't think we can call it just yet.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 02:55:13 am
content: For the people discussing LED lighting and planned obsolescence I have created a new thread for it.Since it doesn't really belong here.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/led-lighting-and-planned-obsolescence-intentional-or-not/

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 04:40:26 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 02:50:39 amLOL I didn't realize thatwehad anything to do with "calling it".

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 04:44:20 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 05, 2023, 04:40:26 amHow do you know what 'We' I was refereeing too.The engineering/scientific community.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 04:57:58 am
content: It's a bit of like the Tulip craze, every material scientist and his dog's on the replication train.Someone associated with University of S. California's claimed to have replicated ithttps://twitter.com/floates0x/status/1687461340607311872and Argonne has apparently synthesised the sample, so we'll hear about it from some of the best material scientists in the next week or so.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 05:10:10 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 04:44:20 amWhich "engineering/scientific community"There is a relatively small set of professionals who are qualified to evaluate these claims. I don't think the use of the term "we" is remotely appropriate. It has nothing to do with "we".

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 05:34:22 am
content: You don't need to be a professional or qualified to evaluate the claims.Anyone can test and evaluate the claims. And everyone else gets to personally decide if they want to accept that persons evaluation or not.Just because someone is qualified in the superconductor industry doesn't make their evaluation legitimate, or worthy of consideration. That comes from their reputation of accuracy/integrity/honesty etc. which isn't limited to people who are qualified.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 06:34:48 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 05, 2023, 05:34:22 amSure, everyone has an opinion. Mostly no one cares.QuoteAre you planning to do that?QuoteOk, I get it. You reject anyone and everyone, other that who you want to consider.Whatever. Bye

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 06:34:54 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on August 05, 2023, 01:08:49 amWAY too often I've seen the researchers themselves fueling the media hype. And there are countless commercialisation arms of universities that talk things up until the cows come how, that's their job.Example of one I busted:

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 07:57:57 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 04, 2023, 06:00:03 pmContext trimmed, in preparation for your straw-man arguments.Quote from: gnuarm on August 04, 2023, 06:00:03 pmOf course you are, you're just being facetious imo, but just on the off-chance that you are clinically thick, "they" are the LED lighting manufacturers.Quote from: gnuarm on August 04, 2023, 06:00:03 pmAaand, here we have it. I never said any of these things. Nobody who understands anything says these things. Obvious troll is obvious.Quote from: gnuarm on August 04, 2023, 06:00:03 pmI've seen plenty of LED lamp teardowns from big manufacturers on Big Clive's channel; just because you haven't doesn't mean he doesn't do them, it just means you are unaware of them. My original claim is that the cost of lighting in large installations has moved from electricity to installation and maintenance, and I have provided examples of this. You on the other hand have only provided examples of straw-man arguments and faulty logic. The problem is, you don't realise you don't have an argument at all.Quote from: BBBbbb on August 04, 2023, 06:49:07 pmYou are both correct, and also missing the point. That planned obsolescence is not new, is not new. The point I'm making is that modern LED fittings give manufacturers a unique opportunity to enhance their profit margins by making themcompletely integrated, so that it is impossible (technically simply economically impractical) to replace a lamp, and thewhole fittingmust be replaced.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2023, 08:15:00 am
content: Move the lighting discussion to the new thread I created.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/led-lighting-and-planned-obsolescence-intentional-or-not/?topicseen

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2023, 02:06:59 am
content: New video supposedly showing full levitation / flux pinning.Obviously video could be fake, but if not it looks like flux pinning to me.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2023, 02:17:53 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 06, 2023, 02:06:59 amYeah, saw that on Twitter with some added contexthttps://twitter.com/andercot/status/1687740396691185664There was also some discussion on that thread about the possibility of islands of superconductivity, beyond my basic physics comprehension.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2023, 02:25:54 am
content: Quote from: deepfryed on August 06, 2023, 02:17:53 amI heard something similar. Sounds kinda-sorta not very practical superconductory?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2023, 02:36:18 am
content: Even if it turns out to be of no use for power transmission the new physics is cool.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 07:43:22 am
content: When not a fake below - I do not understand why those researches are unable to shoot a better video..

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 08:12:08 am
content: @iMo, what is it you think this video is showing?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 08:23:43 am
content: QuoteMost people are crap at shooting videos. And most people that shoot crap videos don't realise how crap they are because they see what they want to see, knowing what it is they're seeing. I would suggest trying it yourself sometime, but you might not appreciate how the result looks to everyone else

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 11:04:15 am
content: Quote from: iMo on August 07, 2023, 07:43:22 amI do not understand why people good at explaining things, visualising things, and constructing a well crafted video presentation can't come up with the next breakthrough in superconductors.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 11:14:55 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on August 07, 2023, 08:12:08 amI do not know, you have to tell meBut I've stepped through the video frame by frame and "it seems" the "something" freely rotates around all axes..

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 11:18:32 am
content: Quote from: coppice on August 07, 2023, 11:04:15 amThe presentations/videos of those scientists always look like "I want to show you what I just have discovered, and I do not want to show you what I have just discovered as well"..

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 01:14:12 pm
content: Because such videos get passed via TikTok manh times and nobody knows the link to the source

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2023, 01:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: iMo on August 07, 2023, 11:18:32 amYou might not be their target audience. They may be more interested in showing their work to others versed in their field.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2023, 06:47:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2023, 02:25:54 am@EEVblogAs I understand it, the manufacturing process at this stage is somewhat primitive. As such, I would not find it all all difficult to believe that theydon'tcreate a homogenous superconducting substance throughout theentire volumeof the material. That would, as I see it, be the result of further refinement of the process.To demonstrate an impure sample where superconductivity is indicated is a first step - just as the first silicon wafers would have been less than ideal for today's chip fabrication. To get the ultimate product straight out of the gate is a bit overly optimistic, IMHO.Nevertheless - let's see how things progress ...

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2023, 08:41:07 am
content: QuoteBut, nevertheless, if they don't then it's worth a BUSTED video, surely

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2023, 10:07:44 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 08, 2023, 06:47:36 amYeah, its plausible that getting a sample that's homogenous enough to measure its superconductivity is quite rare.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2023, 05:52:24 pm
content: Quote from: iMo on August 07, 2023, 11:14:55 amYou are the one who posted it. I thought you had something to say...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2023, 09:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: iMo on August 07, 2023, 07:43:22 amThis video was admitted to be faked:QuoteThey seem to have regretted it massively.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2023, 09:20:52 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 08, 2023, 10:07:44 amLike with graphene?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 04:28:38 am
content: According to Sabine Hossenfelder, several research groups actually concluded this thing is an INSULATORhttps://youtu.be/LoKWourNJEs(Use pause control to read info in the scrolling table in LK99 update part of the video)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 04:57:03 am
content: Quote from: Bud on August 09, 2023, 04:28:38 amBoth Sabine and Anton Petrov are two of the latest science summary Youtubers I follow, and yeah, both of them are not at all confident.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 05:42:21 am
content: The current view seems to be that there's indeed some odd magnetic properties no one has seen before from those elements mixed together, but no one has been able to measure any low resistances path across their sample.But as other have said, the samples come out pretty terrible quality with crap mixed in. So you can't really conclude anything from measuring across it. Cant prove a negative etc..I'm hoping we might get a video showing it fully levitating coming from a legit research company/person. but we will see.The only video so far showing it fully levitating is very suspicious and has no other info or anyone backing it up.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 12:12:49 pm
content: So, the current consensus is that this new material is a superconductor..... or an insulator...... or an ordinary mundane conductor.It is a type 1... or a type2..... or some entirely new kind of superconductor/conductor/insulator.It is diamagnetic.... or ferromagnetic.... or paramagnetic.... or just sits there not getting magnetically involved.It excludes flux.... and/or traps flux..... or doesn't give a toss about magnetic flux.It superconducts at room temperature..... or below 100K..... or not at all.And then we gets single studies, with no attempt at replication, being used in all sorts of scientific areas as gospel."Breakthroughs" in science are interesting, but replication is where the rubber meets the road.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 01:39:34 pm
content: In my decades of experience, I have seen other flashes in the pan (magnetic monopoles in cosmic rays, polywater, cold fusion without neutrons, etc.) announced in popular media that vanished when exposed to peer review in the scientific journals.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 03:26:33 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 09, 2023, 01:39:34 pmPeer review is useless. Most peer review is not even by people steeped in the same field as the study. Something that has recently embarrassed a couple of journals, and got them to promise to pick reviewers better. Peer review is a relatively modern approach, whose purpose was to limit discussion rather than clean up the dead wood. Its replication that sorts the wheat from the chaff.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 03:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on August 09, 2023, 03:26:33 pmDecades ago, I attended a lecture at the Univ. of Chicago by Dr. Samuel Goudsmit, who discussed his tenure as editor of "Physical Review".He had interesting anecdotes about peer review.If I remember correctly, one author complained that "the reviewer was unfamiliar with the work of Frank Yang" (the English name for Dr. Yang Chen-Ning).The reviewer was Frank Yang.It was often said that Dr. Goudsmit (the co-discoverer of electron spin) did not get a Nobel Prize because everyone thought he already had it.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2023, 03:48:42 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on August 09, 2023, 03:26:33 pmYou mean like the many opinions expressed in this discussion? Yeah, pretty worthless.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2023, 06:16:09 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 09, 2023, 03:35:20 pmI think it will serve us well in this discussion to think of "peer review" and "replication" (aka "repeatability") as separate processes rather than lumping them together.Peer review assess the process and the science, where as replication attempts to repeat the experiment in the hope of getting the same results. Replication is often done as part of the "peer review" but not always. Unlike "dark matter" or "multiverse", in this particular case, "replication" will give definitive results.Thus far, as Sabine's "Superconductor LK99 UPDATE" episode pointed out, none of the replication attempts by multiple groups of scientist succeeded in creating a room-temperature superconducting lump of material. So while the method did produce substance that could be superconducting, but it isn't.Now I suppose there would be discussion by the scientist involved -- did every other team made a mistake in their replication experiment, or is it just over optimistic exaggeration with some misguided interpretation of results in the original work.Mean time, I filed this LK99 info in the same pile as the University of Utah's "cold fusion achievement" and go back to doing something more fruitful -- I do need to finish making my time travel machine.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2023, 11:34:34 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 10, 2023, 06:16:09 amIndeed. There is no "peer review" in this case because AFAIK the paper was never submitted for peer review, it was leaked by one of the team (the disgruntled guy?) onto some working server.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2023, 08:08:51 pm
content: OK, where are we with this thing...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2023, 11:54:03 pm
content: Thunderf00t has done a BUSTED video:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 12:04:16 am
content: And an update from Anton:

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 01:03:17 am
content: thunderfoot and anton, totally enjoyable.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 09:50:14 am
content: The Anton video is good. I forced myself to watch thunderf00t as a comparison and lasted less than a minute.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 10:06:32 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on August 12, 2023, 09:50:14 amYeah. Thunderf00t used to do some really good videos. But then he started getting a bit too aggressive and often too one-sided. At least for me. Entertaining sure, but not always very fair to the subject matter.He often comes across like he's actively looking for ways to interpret things to allow them to be torn apart with the biggest impact. Following the algorithm I guess. But it used to be more about science.This video of his isn't actually too but, but in general I think it stands.That, and when he makes claims that turn out to be factually incorrect, either because the facts were not known at the time of making the video, or because he just made assumptions, he often never corrects his claims or retracts his statement.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:10:35 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 12, 2023, 10:06:32 amIt wasn't actually, his channel was built on the atheism videos plus a lot of internet drama stuff. And after identity poltics destroyed the atheism community the channel focussed a lot on the gender politics stuff, gamergate etc. Busting and science type videos were always smattered in there, but certainly were not what his channel was known for.A few years back he actually did a user poll on what they want to see on the main channel, and the vast majority wanted only busting and science videos (he was mostly known for busting videos at this point), so that's what he did. He created a 2nd channel VoiceOfThunder for random content.I'd say science stuff is what his channel is least known for actually.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:13:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2023, 11:10:35 amActually, from the earliest days he has had two strands of videos on his channel - science and whining. The subject of the whining has varied over time. The science videos were often pretty good. Now the whining and science have completely merged into one thread that does both at the same time.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:18:03 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2023, 11:10:35 amStrange, I definitely remember his channel as being more science oriented when I used to watch/enjoy it.If that's true then It's strange how you can remember things with a filter on.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:38:51 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 12, 2023, 11:18:03 amI get this literally every day in the comments "Your channel used to be about X, now it's about Y"I've even done videos analysing my last 100 videos and the people making the claims arealwayswrong.Nothing usual there, it's human nature to remember what stuff you like and put more weight on it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:45:49 am
content: Quote from: coppice on August 12, 2023, 11:13:57 amLK99 is pretty unusual in that it combines the spectacular mainstream media hype of Hyperloop proportions, but it's purely about otherwise boring hard core physics research.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 07:12:23 am
content: As far as I had interest to follow, it would seem that the LK-99 more than a superconductor could be classified as 'diamagnetic semiconductor'.Well, if that is so (and anyway if it is NOT a superconductor), would it still have some practical application?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 07:55:07 am
content: Quote from: bitwelder on August 13, 2023, 07:12:23 amWho knows. But more importantly, who cares after all this hype

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 08:34:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 13, 2023, 07:55:07 amLOL!!!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 01:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on August 13, 2023, 07:12:23 amA video ftom Asianometry youtube channel on thathttps://youtu.be/dBhBqOirJ4A

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 02:08:40 pm
content: Seehttps://xkcd.com/2798/

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 08:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 13, 2023, 07:55:07 amDamn, I'm heartbroken.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 12:26:19 am
content: More frustration from the scientific community.Bad Science and Room Temperature Superconductors - Sixty Symbols - Professor Philip Moriarty takes issue with a paper by scientists claiming to achieve room temperature superconductivity. Yesterday.

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 05:12:46 am
content: I'm disappointed but not at all surprised. However, one can hope good things will come out of this. Perhaps further research into LK-99 will give us more insight into superconductivity. I'm sure all this news about LK-99 will also get more people interested in materials science.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 12:01:50 pm
content: "LK-99 isn’t a superconductor — how science sleuths solved the mystery"https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02585-7

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 02:20:06 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on August 17, 2023, 12:26:19 amQuote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2023, 12:01:50 pmHave I mentioned, that the "Dr." in my nickname originates from my 1994 PhD thesis:"Measurement of the AC-Susceptibility and its Higher Harmonics on High Temperature Superconductors"So that outcome is highly satisfying, because other than Prof. Moriarty, I'm obviously a 'Senior Expert'on this science area, and I finally found an application for my unused expertise.I found these documents fishy for the exact same arguments like him, i.e. bad scientific style (an aggressive claim) and mediocre / incomplete measurements.In this Nature article the decisive magnetic measurements are not well appreciated, which would outscore the meaningless levitation videos.In the paper from Max-Planck Institute,https://arxiv.org/pdf/2308.06256,they substract the diamagnetic effect of copper from their DC-SQUID measurements.What's left over is naught superconductivity, but a weak ferromagnetic behavior, maybe with a diamagnetic background, which both can explain the levitation effect.FrankPS: As we're still @ eevblog, I'd like to share a picture of my Hartshorn Bridge coils from way back when.. for those AC-Susceptibility measurements.The leftmost coil has two secondary windings of 523 turns of 40 or 50µm wires in the small chambers, and a long primary wound over them, consisting of 1685 windings of 80µm wire.An example of a complete coil assembly is on the right side. The Hartshorn Bridge (on an epoxy bobbin) is attached to a non-magnetic steel cylinder.A calibrated temperature diode is attached at the lengthwise location of the sample, which is fixed inside the borehole of the bobbin.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 04:00:19 pm
content: Decades ago, there was a legitimate surge in interest for a substance that might evolve into high-temperature superconductivity, and did, indeed, have interesting electronic properties (including one-dimensional conductivity).The publication rules for Physical Review required the full name of the substance in the title of papers, which was"tetrathiofulvlene-7,7,8,8-tetracyanoquinodimethane", better known as TTF-TCNQ.Following good publication guidelines, the first time something was mentioned it had to be spelled out, but later references could use the abbreviation.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 06:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on August 17, 2023, 02:20:06 pmHarmonics of AC or harmonics of Susceptibility?

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 06:12:26 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on August 17, 2023, 06:01:50 pmI guess, both. In fact, I did an FFT analysis on the ac signal by means of a hp3458A, one of the first available on the market in 1989.The graphs of these Higher Harmonics were so harmonically symmetric, that my wife always wanted to colorize them.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2024, 09:06:47 pm
content: More 'evidence' just come out, now with video of fully levitating sample, albeit only just.https://bnnbreaking.com/world/southkorea/breakthrough-in-superconductivity-china-reproduces-meissner-effect-south-korea-to-present-evidencehttps://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/03/room-temperature-superconductor-pcposos-talk-with-full-levitation-video.html

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2024, 08:53:15 am
content: They are still arguing and experimenting with the levitation effect, which is no proof at all.As already explained, a very simple, proper magnetic measurement of the susceptibility is required, AC and DC susceptibility.Complex AC measurements can be done very easily by means of a Hartshorn bridge and a Lock-In. That's the easiest way to show the diamagnetic effect plus the electrical superconductivity.The presentation shown on 'X' does not reveal any striking new information.Frank

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 03:02:44 am
content: Well, to be fair, Dua Lipa is also levitating, and for some reason I find this more exciting.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 09:15:15 am
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on March 05, 2024, 08:53:15 amIn a localized domain superconductor the bulk material could have a combination of superconduction and semiconductor junctions. That's going to be tricky to measure magnetically.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 09:42:50 am
content: Quote from: Marco on March 07, 2024, 09:15:15 amYeah, that's pretty what I suspect.There may very well be a superconducting compound in the sample but it's so heavily mixed up with other things that measuring it and getting results to conclusively identify superconductivity is extremely hard.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 03:37:17 pm
content: Some new hope for the hopefuls, or amusement for those who find it amusing to see people put trust in charlatans :Magnetic field sorting of superconducting graphite particles with Tc>400Khttps://arxiv.org/abs/2410.18020v1

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 04:14:58 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on October 28, 2024, 03:37:17 pmQuoteSounds like a vanity project.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 04:36:25 pm
content: Wouldn't simple decanting work to separate large amounts of graphite particles if they are truly superconducting? They'll get flux pinned in a magnetic field. Only up to the critical current so gravity might still win, but they should sink slower than non superconducting particles at least.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:12:20 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on October 28, 2024, 04:36:25 pmSo what we need to do is just make a heavy metal shotgun and randomly create millions of different materials and see what sticks.May take a while..

author: sslupsky
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 10:41:02 pm
content: Interesting indeed.