"Smart" TV.... New purchase!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 12:12:49 pm
content: Just got my first!! I'm amazed what it can do, via the wifi/router.I thought it would be 'Android' under the hood, but it seems it is 'Linux'.Being a bit of a 'tech-head' I can't leave well enough alone!! haha...It comes with a lot of built-in 'apps', including Netflix & Youtube etc etc, and with Android systems,one can access the 'Play Store' for more. However, Linux doesn't doesn't have a 'Store' as such??I'm not sure how to access the 'linux' equivalent to Android '.apk' files.....

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 12:26:21 pm
content: Hope it isn't aNonsenseHisense tv. The first one lasted 2 years, the warranty replacement one lasted about 12 months. It ran Linux too, but some setting in the xserver or suchlike prevented it from displaying the full 1920x1080 resolution. Hopeless tv.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 12:28:17 pm
content: "Smart" TVNow the whole of the interwebs know what your watching.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 12:38:10 pm
content: No, it's a 32" 'Kogan', (KALED32AH7500STA), on special for $199(I'll probably get laughed at!! haha...)It's performing well, in all areas. They just emailed me too with a software upgrade.That went flawlessly. Would just like the freedom to 'tinker' with additional Apps, like 'Kodi'

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 12:58:17 pm
content: It doesn't look like Android but there is screen casting supported natively on it. I prefer casting media to each TV I have as you can just use a mobile or tablet and just tap "play this" rather than messing around with a remote. You can also set it up where visitors can do the same thing, better than have them surfing the web on your TV's OS type of thing.Kogan just rebrands generic Chinese brands so you might be able to find what it actually is and how to side load apps if it has a usable OS on it. These are fairly low end brands but they have probably sold zillions of them. Personally I'm spoiled for decent LED TV's here, I'm not exactly in the stratosphere but I can throw a decent movie night.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 01:20:59 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on November 29, 2019, 12:58:17 pmThanks mate. Yea, definitely 'Linux' in the tech specs, and the screen casting works fine from my Android SmartPhone etc.I'll check out the Chinese rebrands side of things, thanks...'Kodi' is a free Open-Source streaming service, that accepts numerous addons. (Some not 'legal' haha..)Supposedly available for Linux too. You said the word I forgot, too...'Side Load'. I've much to learn!!P.S.Just found out that Google-Chrome browser has built in 'casting' that I can use from my Laptop, withoutany additional software/hardware.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 02:16:08 pm
content: Yeah I know all about Kodi, personally I have no use for it but it's quite popular. VLC player I believe is also popular as well, supports streaming has good media support. I've used both but not for a long time.Chrome casts as well, the screen casting technology now is quite decent, as long as you don't have an ancient device and the network is fast enough. If you are casting an internet stream from Chrome to a Chrome compatible device or software it offloads the stream from the client device, so that is a quite nice feature as well. For this reason I always would recommend a TV or media player to be connected via Ethernet as hammering HD streams all over the house via WiFi is best avoided.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 02:11:52 am
content: Congrats on your purchase. The Kogan TVs aren't actually too bad for the price. They aren't great, but certainly not bottom of the barrel stuff (their LiPo USB battery banks are also actually quite good).I personally don't like "smart" TVs. The two biggest issues I have are the lack of continued software updates (mainly for patching newly discovered vulnerabilities in the underlying operating system and services) and the poor long-term support for certain bundled applications, such as Kodi. I consider the software side of things to be short-lived and "disposable" in a way (eventually, your smart TV will operate as a display, nothing more).This isn't a criticism of your purchase either. If it does what you want it to do and it was at the price you were happy to pay, then that's great.My only advice to anyone who has "smart" devices in their home is this: Don't trust them on your local trusted LAN with all your other computers, servers and devices. Segregate them to their own VLAN and only give them the minimum outbound internet access (and access to other VLANs) that is necessary to do what you want them to do. This includes TVs, IoT vacuum cleaners, air conditioners, doorbells, cameras, sensors, speakers, fridges etc...There are two major reasons for this. Firstly, anything with a camera or microphone can be potentially exploited to breach your privacy. Secondly, devices which have unpatched vulnerabilities can be exploited from the outside then used to "pivot" to other computers and devices on your network. Think of a vulnerable device as an Ethernet switch connected to the rest of your network that anyone from the outside can connect to; What else do they have access to on that same network?It has absolutely nothing to do with the whole "I have nothing to hide" mentality that some people tend to have, it's the digital equivalent of locking your car or house doors and windows.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 04:51:49 am
content: There is NOTHING "smart" about a "smart" TV for its "smart" features, nor the decision to purchase one based on them. The truly smart decision is to buy a TV of any kind, and then a Roku to plug into it - ask any sane, reputable AV/TV expert. A Roku can be removed and moved to the next TV down the line, whereas all this "smart" trash, cannot, and is junk. More useless distractions from the simple pleasure of watching TV.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 04:58:59 am
content: It's pretty hard to find a decent large TV anymore that isn't "smart" but I will say if I had one there is not a chance in hell I would connect it to the internet. "Smart" TVs have proliferated to the degree they have because manufactures love the amount of marketing data they can harvest from their users.There are countless <$100 devices that plug into any TV that add all the "smart" features you could want. They are easily replaceable as tech changes and most of them don't spy on you either. Within a year or two most of the apps built into the TV likely won't work anymore as streaming services update and change.I got a Roku for my mom a few years ago but decided pretty quickly I wouldn't buy one for myself. There is an ad banner on the home screen for one thing, screw that, and some other limitations.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 05:07:43 am
content: Quote from: eti on November 30, 2019, 04:51:49 amThat's all well and good however I'm a firm believer of what may work for you, doesn't work for everyone. I tend to be brand-agnostic. For example a Roku wouldn't work well in my use case. I use an Intel NUC running Linux and Plex. It's far more customisable and I can screw down the security to suit me.However if your budget is $200, then your options are extremely limited. If budget isn't important, then you can build a system as complex and as elaborate as you like. Like almost everything, it "just depends".

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 06:23:13 am
content: I have Plex working on a Raspberry Pi 3b and it works well, so there are options to suit virtually any budget.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 08:47:51 am
content: Quote from: StillTrying on November 29, 2019, 12:28:17 pmProbably, but does he actually care?I don't like smart TVs, but not for that reason.The problem is certain features can stop working on them, when the manufacturer has ceased supporting the firmware. A colleague has one and YouTube has stopped working on it, because Google changed something, which brakes the TV's firmware. I'd rather have an ordinary dumb TV connected to an old Linux PC for Internet access.

author: Clarmrrsn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 10:50:57 am
content: I was very tempted by the 60” 4K LG Smart tv on offer for £429 at Argos, but managed to resist.Mostly due to the fact I already spent £300 on a scope, but thst really is a very good deal for what is a superb 4K screen.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 03:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: eti on November 30, 2019, 04:51:49 amAnd that is important? Because streaming media player thingies are expected to have a longer service life than flat-screen displays??

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 04:35:10 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 30, 2019, 03:35:31 pmYes, of course. Haven't you seen all those TVs Dave hauls out of his trash room? TVs are junk.~ The "smart" junk in a "smart" TV is just thrown together and shoveled into the spec list as a reason to get you to "upgrade" your TV (the perfectly working one you've had for years)~ It's not in the interests of the "smart" TV manufacturer to continually polish and upgrade the firmware; it's a "feature" they got to work JUST well enough to persuade you to part with your money - their business model isn't perfecting a universally admired app platform, it's to make repeat sales on sub-standard junk.~ It IS in the interests of Roku to perfect and polish, then update ROKU OS. We've had our Roku 3 since 2015, and it's been updated constantly, and has got better and better.~ Also, regardless of what others may say, Amazon's appalling "Fire TV" devices are UTTER JUNK. I own two Fire sticks (2nd gen) and a Fire TV (1st gen), and no matter how many times you reset them, change the batteries in the remote, etc, they:** Freeze constantly for 10-30 seconds... ... .... ..... thenallofasuddenitcatchesupwithitself!!!** Their junky remotes CONSTANTLY overscroll, and perform phantom up/down button presses repeatedly until you press something again.My fire TV example is another example of these products being lures to get you to buy something or subscribe to it. Junk.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 05:54:21 pm
content: One of my friends is a software engineer(used that just for you eti) for a major TV manufacturer and works for R&D doing smart TV software. It's not thrown together garbage but they do have to design down to a limited spec. My Sony TV also still gets regular updates and it's from 2014 or 2013. I don't use the "smarts" often since I've got a PS4 connected to it but it still works just fine.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 06:14:42 pm
content: I wonder how long before some manufacturer makes a smart TV with a Ryzen APU instead of some underpowered ARM platform. Or even better, just have it accept a standard PC motherboard and GPU in the back. (And make it available with motherboard preinstalled or as a "barebones" that would basically be a PC case with built in display.) Then have the panel accept 4K at 120Hz for the ultimate gaming TV.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 06:46:24 pm
content: Very likely never, because that would be another silly approach. The TV would probably cost twice what a competing TV costs and 99.9% of consumers never upgrade an integral component. It also doesn't solve anything that having an external box can't solve. External is always more versatile than integrated and if space is a problem it's not hard to make a compact device that sticks to the back of the TV. There already are various dongle type gadgets that plug into the HDMI port.I've still never actually bought a TV ever in my life, people end up giving me more broken TVs than I can handle, right now I have a 65" LCD that I got because the LED backlight had failed when it was not even 2 years old. I fixed that and have now been using it longer than the original owner had it. I've got two 50" TVs with LED backlight issues awaiting my attention, they are edgelit and those sort in particular seem to overdrive the LEDs. They use a really annoying construction that requires complete disassembly of the panel to access the backlight too when it would have been trivial to make the backlight "fixture" screw onto the back with a slot down the edge for the LED stip to fit in instead of screwing onto the other side of the rear panel.

author: dave j
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 07:43:29 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 30, 2019, 04:58:59 amAs do the Roku style devices. Roku make more money from advertising than they do selling hardware now. Despite privacy settings supposedly built into the devices they arejust to give you a false reassurance.Something like a Raspberry Pi with Kodi seems the way to go.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 01:21:48 am
content: What's the issue with advertisers tracking what you watch on your TV? That's already the case if you watch anything from any streaming provider, and honestly, this is one of the few cases where I absolutely wouldn't care.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 01:43:25 am
content: I have a pretty big issue with companies tracking my habits and then turning around and selling that data for big profits, especially since they are usually not at all upfront about what they are doing, it's buried in the fine print in a zillion page long terms of service agreement. You don't even know what they're tracking in many cases, some smart TVs track what you are watching from other sources, and some even display ads in the UI of the TV itself.I got tired of the whole mess, along with the fragmentation that is ruining streaming in general. I set up my own Plex server and went back to buying DVDs that I rip onto that. Plex now covers 100% of my TV viewing.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 02:44:40 am
content: After the number of TV's I've found in the dumpster and fixed myself, I have an aversion to all consumer electronic TV's today. The number I've found dumped and I've fixed will provide me with a supply of TV's good for the foreseeable future (as long as I have space to store them). And I keep finding more and collecting them faster than the ones I fix fail.And I prefer a replaceable "smart" component because inevitably software updates/firmware/codecs and other factors change which obsolete the smart device. Apps stop working, don't load, etc. You can start off with a "smart" TV but be prepared a few years down the road to possibly need to buy a plug-in smart device when the built-in one starts to fail. That's ok. Because even an external device (like a Roku) will also fail within a few years.Funny story... earlier this year my Roku stick failed to power on. It was only a couple years old. I took the board out, propped it on a few rolled up aluminum foil balls and baked it in my toaster oven for 7 min at 350 F! Yeah I'm not kidding... and it brought it back to life!!!Chances are the TV made today will not last long enough to let you notice when the smart internals start losing function.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 02:54:49 am
content: About 4 years ago, some very kind family friends gave us a 2007 model 42" Panasonic plasma, in perfect working order, because they'd "upgraded" to something newer; I'm not sure it's possible to "upgrade" FROM a plasma, as A/V geek friends of mine have commented many a time. It's not even quite 720p capable, BUT WHO CARES; it's nigh on there, and when you have such a stunning quality picture and are immersed in a film, it's all totally irrelevant..."Oh no, you utter savage, watching less than HD"I can hear many "experts" cry! Well our TV was free, and is technically superior, whereas you've probably been fleeced of £2-3,000 and the quality of the stuff on the screen doesn't get better, just because you paid more.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 03:10:33 am
content: Quote from: eti on December 01, 2019, 02:54:49 amOLED can match plasma quite easily, even for competitive gaming. Sadly, it's vulnerable to burn in just like plasma.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 03:50:46 am
content: OLED looks fantastic, but plasma is still the most CRT-like and in some cases I think looks subjectively better. It certainly looks better for the same resolution, but OLED is generally much higher resolution and does have better blacks. The main disadvantage of plasma is that it's bulky, heavy and power hungry, and of course the susceptibility of screen burn mentioned which is shared with OLED. That wouldn't be such a big problem except that TV channels these days have those stupid logos in the corner, I remember seeing a lot of plasma TVs and before that CRT projection TVs with a channel logo burned into the corner. I wish they would outlaw those logos, not only does it damage expensive TVs but it ruins the content too, it's the single biggest reason why I dumped cable ~20 years ago right around the time every channel started having those.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 04:46:48 am
content: Adults apparently watch about 5h of TV per day, on average. (US)Haven't had a TV in the house for >20 years. Time saved = about 4 years!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 06:00:18 am
content: Yeah that number is pretty nuts, I wonder if that's time sitting actively watching a show or just having it on? My dad has often had the TV on as background, drives me nuts, I don't like it on unless I'm sitting watching something. I probably average 30-60 minutes a day, we typically watch a show over dinner, all streaming from my collection.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 03:14:15 pm
content: The average lifespan of today's TVs is getting shorter, when theoretically it should have been the same or longer. There is no consumer outcry because:(1) people believe there are enough improvements year to year that when their old TV dies they feel good because the new TV is giving them upgraded features(2) cost of new TVs has become so cheap that repair is not economically feasibleAs a result, TVs have become like light bulbs... the more produced, the cheaper they get. As a result we have lost most manufacturers of screens. Expect this trend to continue and e-waste to accumulate.My current main TV is a 59" Samsung plasma from 2012 dumped on the curb earlier this year by a neighbour which only needed a few power supply components to fix. It weighs a ton and heats up the room but image is beautiful. We watch a movie a couple times a week, but otherwise off as we are too busy during the week (and many other displays in the house like Google Nest Hub, phones, etc) satisfy our viewing needs.The TV this one replaces is a 42" Samsung LCD we bought new in 2008 which died 3 years later and I subsequently fixed. It was still working and our main TV until I found this plasma. It's now in the basement. So it lasted at least 10 years and was still perfectly fine for family TV viewing. And I have a Sony 42" curb-side find LCD which is a beautiful set that I never used, just fixed, and is in the basement sometimes turned on to watch while exercising. And in the garage I have another Samsung plasma dumped recently which I am going to start working on soon... sound and logic board all work but no power to screen. I am in no rush to fix, just curious how and will give it a shot.Can we expect most TVs today to give us 10+ years of function? Is that too hard to ask? Are there any hard stats or are we just biased by noticing failures? I have other TVs that have given me no trouble... also now going on 10 years. There must be some survivability curve graph on TVs, although I realize there are big differences between type of TV, manufacturer, size, etc.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 03:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: eti on December 01, 2019, 02:54:49 amWe picked up a Sanyo 55" plasma TV from an estate sale for $100. You are not kidding on the picture quality, everyone has noticed the difference. And I like the dumb TV. Roku and cable box connected. Everyone is happy. We have this in the living room as the main TV. As a side benefit, I got the 46" Visio LED TV to use as my computer monitor

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 04:01:25 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2019, 06:00:18 amThe sum of your sins is a constant... i.e. the time "saved" by not having a TV gets invested in streaming films on laptop and computer screens instead, or playing computer games. - We do have the need to just flake out with a good movie once in a while.

author: Clarmrrsn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 04:43:59 pm
content: I have had a 50” Panasonic plasma for around 10 years and it is still going strong, my parents and sister also bought Panasonic plasmas at the same time and all 3 are still going. They are built like tanks.I really dont see any point in upgrading to 4k just now, the picture quality of a plasma is superb, more importantly though the number of 4K programs you can actually watch in the uk is still very limited.There are 8K tv’s readily available now, and 16K has been released.Its all getting a bit silly

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 05:24:38 pm
content: 16K? What's the point? That might make a cool desktop computer monitor but for TV? Who cares.I have excellent vision and I can only barely see the difference between 1080p and 4K from a few feet away. If I were going to buy a new TV I'd probably buy a 4K model simply because they don't cost much more and I could use it as a monitor too but I don't have any 4K TV content or intend to get any. The slight improvement is not worth the dramatic increase in hard drive space and network bandwidth. Even the standard 1080 content is compressed to the hilt in many cases. People get excited over lots of pixels and then don't realize you need to provide enough data to fill them. I figured out some time back that it's faster to download content I already own than it is to rip the discs myself but you so often see 1080p movies that are compressed down to <1GB files and those are always the most popular, the result obviously looks like crap.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 05:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: edy on December 01, 2019, 03:14:15 pmManufactures got addicted to TVs selling like hotcakes during the HD migration. What they don't seem to grasp at all is that the vast majority of these purchases happened not because of HD but because affordable flatscreens appeared on the market at the same time. People dumped their old CRT and bought a new LCD because the LCD was big and thin, wives everywhere were overjoyed to get rid of the big ugly box in their livingroom. Once everyone upgraded sales predictably fell off a cliff and manufactures have been scrambling ever since. They release gimmicks like 3D and 4K not realizing the fact that no feature is going to match the appeal of going from a big bulky thing to a thin flat panel. Most people don't even notice or care about picture quality, I remember seeing countless HD TVs hooked up via composite video which is SD only and the best selling TVs have always been the cheapest crap around.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 06:31:24 pm
content: I’m not sure how accurate this calculator is but it attempts to figure out at what distance the pixel density of your screen is no longer resolvable by the human retina:https://www.designcompaniesranked.com/resources/is-this-retina/For example my 59” Samsung 1080p plasma dumpster rescue is 1920x1080 at 59” diagonal. According to the above calculator the viewing distance at which pixel density becomes “retina” is 92 inches (234 cm). Our couch is 5m away so I am seeing WAY ABOVE “retina”. It is already overkill for my setup!!!!As far as I’m concerned much of this is simply marketing BS. The demo videos in stores and TVs are set up to have over saturated colors and contrast in store lighting environments and has nothing to do with your home setup and lighting conditions you use at home. Like those audiophile shop demos that try to trick you into buying certain expensive gear because you can hear the difference.There are few compelling reasons to buy new TVs anymore, after the biggest quantum leap which was going from CRT to flat panel. Things should have been getting more reliable but TV makers saw the writing on the wall and rather than see their huge manufacturing plants and profits dwindle they decided to make “light bulbs” (aka modern TVs) with limited lifespans and features of diminishing practical importance.As cheaper manufacturers like Samsung began to dominate the scene years ago, traditional heavyweights like Philips, Panasonic, Toshiba, JVC, Sony... couldn’t compete. People wanted flat screens and did not understand the reliability issues that would ensue. They also figured things were changing so fast that it wasn’t a long-term investment they were making anyways. That opened the door for the cheapest panels to dominate and that led many TV makers to fold. Sony, Philips and others stopped making consumer sets or simply lent their name to cheaper crappy 3rd party makers, so brand name sufferered. With them out of the industry, all that is left are relatively few makers who built themselves up on cheapness. And now someone who would pay a little more for a quality set has no option.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flat_panel_display_manufacturersFunny though it isn’t the flat panel that usually fails. It is usually badly designed power supplies and cheap components that cannot tolerate heat or bad designs that stress components. The panels themselves are usually pretty good, but the electronics all around it that suck.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 07:57:41 pm
content: What I wonder is how well all this built in software works after 5-10 years? For example if Netflix or Youtube changes the way their system works, or they add new features. I'm not really a fan of built in software that can't be updated, rather use an external standard off the shelf computer hardware for that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:01:10 pm
content: It doesn't, that's how well it works. Most smart TVs from 5+ years ago no longer work with Youtube, Netflix, etc. The apps are constantly updated and the TVs are supported for a few years at most.My "holy grail" if I were going to go out and buy a TV is about a 60" OLED, flat (none of this curved nonsense) with 6-10 HDMI inputs, toslink audio passthrough and an elegantly simple interface and remote. Power, volume, input select and menu for all the settings. No "smart" stuff, heck I don't even need a tuner, almost nobody does, really most TVs ought to just be monitors these days. Oh and buttons on the front panel where they belong instead of hidden off on the side, top, back, or any other stupid place that all TVs have them these days. I mean come on, buttons cost peanuts and can easily be placed in the lower bezel. I hate having to hunt around for the remote just to turn the thing on or off while I'm already standing right by it.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:21:32 pm
content: QuoteOn my current TV which I bought in 2014, I don't even know if the tuner works.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:30:11 pm
content: I don't know if the tuner works in my TV either, or my mom's TV, or most of the TVs my friends have. I actually can't remember the last time I saw a TV with the tuner connected to anything, at least around here most people have either cable or satellite if they watch any broadcast TV, I think a lot of younger people are not even really aware that you can receive TV over the air with an antenna.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:39:11 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2019, 09:30:11 pmAround here, TVs come with built-in satellite and cable tuners.I like the simplicity of just a single remote control.Having said that, while our (small, 32") TV does have a triple tuner for terrestrial broadcast, satellite, and cable, we only have an under-the-roof aerial for terrestrial broadcast reception connected to it. And we don't have a keycard for any commercial stations installed. Which means we can receive about a dozen channels, all public radio, which is more than enough for me.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:45:57 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on December 01, 2019, 01:21:48 am"The whole world can already see my butt, so what's wrong with bending over a bit further and showing them my balls too?"

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 12:44:56 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 01, 2019, 09:39:11 pmI've seen TVs with built in CableCard slots so they can be used that way, but I don't think I've ever seen someone actually do that. Most people want a DVR now, at least in the USA so that necessitates a separate box anyway.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 02:59:14 am
content: I'm surprised very few TVs have built in DVR with the addition of a USB hard drive. (Maybe some smart TVs support that with the download of an app.)

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 03:16:58 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on December 02, 2019, 02:59:14 amWho on earth needs a DVR when almost everything is streaming and on-demand?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 03:54:05 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on December 01, 2019, 07:57:41 pmMy 2013 TV still works fine with youtube, netflix, amazon, hulu. The apps can update and they do get updates so maybe you just need to stick to brands that are invested in themselves rather than cheaper brands that just want to continually sell new stuff. Even then I wouldn't be surprised if they updated for a few years but eventually everything loses support.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 04:19:35 am
content: Quote from: eti on December 02, 2019, 03:16:58 amSometimes you want to archive stuff. For example my dad has all sorts of historical moments in sports on tape, such as Wayne Gretzki's retirement, or Mark Mcguire's home run record. Now days it's so hard to archive stuff because there's no easy way to record stuff to a media you can store. DVRs are basically black boxes that you can't get content out of.Boxes like these sorta work though:https://www.amazon.ca/Elgato-Game-Capture-HD60-technology/dp/B01DRWCOGA/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=HDMI+recorder&qid=1575260222&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&sr=8-3Just need to get past the protection, a HDMI splitter will usually do that.But I do agree I wish TVs were just monitors. If I want anything extra such as video playback or recording, or streaming or anything I rather have it be external on a HTPC. Currently I have a Kodi box but I find it's kinda cubbersome sometimes, thinking of getting a Raspberry Pi 4 and a wireless keyboard/mouse and just using it as a normal Linux desktop right on the TV where I can just play video files in VLC or what not. That way I'll be able to do regular internet stuff, Youtube, view pictures etc... Basically anything you'd do on a computer. If I feel the RPI4 is still not quite enough then I might get a NUC.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 04:35:25 am
content: Quote from: eti on December 02, 2019, 03:16:58 amThe vast majority of people, streaming is rapidly growing but people like myself who rely 100% on streaming are still a small minority. As of 2018 that's 73% in the USA and in 2017 it was 53% in the UK who have cable or satellite TV.Having a DVR built into the TV is dumb for the same reason "smart" TVs are dumb. The idea is fundamentally flawed, the TV should be a monitor to which you can connect any device you want. We already have a standardized interface, HDMI. There are also standards that allow one remote to control multiple devices, though not as standardized as it ought to be.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 12:53:06 pm
content: Well,(I'm the O.P.), and have certainly stirred the hornets nest!I expected, and received a bit of flak near the top of page 1, andthat's OK. I'm new to the topic.And yes, I can see now, the probable benefits of alternatively using the likes of a 'Roku' device.Most complaints seem to stem around the longevity ofsupport/upgradesfor 'smart' TV's.Many people here have reported GOOD longevity & support. Although what's the difference withany other electronic devices these days, like desktop computers & laptops etc. After 2 years, theyare almost out of date, and you can buy something nearly twice as good now, and for half the price!When I first run/set-up this 'smart' TV, the 1st thing it explained was total disclosure about suchthings as "Collecting Data", before proceeding. All they know is my Country & State, and I don't seethe difference than with 'Youtube' on my PC/Laptop showing you more of the things you like in the list!!Anyway, I don't know if the likes of 'Roku' does this? but the 'smart' TV lets me record/save everything,and uses features like 'Catch-Up' to link to the free-to-air channels to view anything we have missed etc.Finally, my main original discussion/question was about 'Linux', that it appears to run on, and as I'vesince learn't theterm.... "How to 'Side-Load' apps, as Linux doesn't seem to have a 'repository/store'as such(?), like Android does with their '.apk' files. However, thanks to all for your tech responses.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 07:03:00 pm
content: Yes the nest definitely got stirred but that is what you'll find with most discussions here! There are lots of opinions and as long as everyone is courteous about their opinions and lists their arguments for or against it, we are all the more wise for it! Everyone's situation is different.As I stated, if you didn't have a "Smart" device before the purchase, then you may as well just buy it integrated into the TV. Worst thing that could happen is in a few years *if* it goes bad then you just get a plug-in type of "smart stick" so you don't trash the entire TV. Nothing wrong with that. There is not much of a price difference anymore in TV's having "smart" features and those without, so may as well just buy one with it integrated if you have nothing else.As far as Linux goes, there is an article here from March 2019:http://linuxgizmos.com/linux-continues-advance-in-smart-tv-market/Android, Linux and so on will become more commonplace on TV's but there are privacy/security concerns. If the TV has an integrated mic/camera then perhaps even more of an issue. Otherwise they can determine what you are watching, but so can Roku, Google and most other providers. Not much you can do about it but get a "dumb" TV and feed it signals from a dedicated Linux box which you build yourself and thus can handle updates/security yourself. Otherwise you are at the mercy of whoever makes this stuff. Again, it may not matter to you if you don't care if they know what you are watching.If the TV comes from a reputable brand that updates firmware regularly, you will be better off than a cheap brand that couldn't care less and you will be stranded with buggy or privacy/security-prone firmware. It is no different than the lack of security in some of the cheap IP-based cams from several years ago. Now you will have a TV with open ports to the internet which could potentially be hacked.Here is an old and somewhat lengthy article about this:https://www.delaat.net/rp/2012-2013/p39/report.pdfI am sure today the situation is not much different.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 12:16:59 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on December 02, 2019, 12:53:06 pmThis isn't generally true any longer - PCs/laptops have been stuck on a plateau in performance for many years now, the same is happening (has happened?) with mobile phones. But the industry will of course keep charging high prices - even for mature products - see car industry.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 04:21:59 am
content: The issue of course is that it's not always as simple as just not using the "smart" portion when it becomes obsolete. It is tightly integrated into the TV, I've seen them get stuck in update loops and such where the entire TV was unusable. I don't know if they're all like this but it's enough for me to avoid them.Yes Youtube also gathers your data, a lot of people seem oblivious to the fact that Google is an advertising company and every product they make is a trojan horse of sorts designed around the primary goal of harvesting marketing data, this data is worth billions. I never log into any google site unless I need to and as soon as I'm finished I always log out. Most people have no idea the kind of detailed profiles that are gathered about them, there's big money in personal data and profiles outlining your living, entertainment and shopping habits. The more closely tied to a particular identifiable individual the more valuable the data is.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 04:33:44 am
content: Seems like CNN has made this front page news today.... have a look:https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/02/politics/smart-tv-fbi-warning-cyber-monday/index.htmlARTICLE TITLE: "That smart TV you just bought may be spying on you, FBI warns".

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 09:02:28 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on December 02, 2019, 12:53:06 pmThere is a distinct difference between being "out of date" and "inoperable". I still use computers regularly which are over 15 years old and they do the task that is required of them and unlike a TV, I can choose from a long list of operating systems and software which I can install on them, without any reliance on third-parties to keep developing or updating them.Like I said earlier, if it does what you want it to do and it was the right price, then it was a good purchase.In my opinion, televisions/monitors have one job to do and that is to accept a video input and display it at an acceptable quality. I don't even care about built-in speakers. It's like a fridge or a dishwasher, their job is to keep food cold and clean dishes respectively. There is absolutely no reason why either of them should have cameras or microphones, have the ability to run "apps" and be connected to the internet.IoT isn't new, but it is stupid. Anyone remember the originalChumby? Released in 2008, it was an internet connected alarm clock. It did some other things like download emails, read the news, weather etc... all until the service was canned in 2012 (it has since been relaunched in some limited capacity and some people did develop alternate firmware for it), but at the end of the day, it was an alarm clock.I also find it quite entertaining that many people who buy these kinds of things are some of the most vocal opponents against Governments listening in and collecting data on people, yet they voluntarily pay good money to put listening devices and cameras in their own homes to be potentially exploited by anyone on the internet.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 12:53:18 pm
content: Much of it is driven by marketing wankers who need to create some additional features to sell a new model of their product. For example look at the electric toothbrushes with BlueTooth enabled app connectivity. Then they invent a reason to have an app (shows you where you are brushing and how long). How useful is this crap and does it make any difference? It's really just a way for them to stick a marketing portal into your phone to get your contact, email or push notifications to you, sell you brush head replacements and so on. It serves the corporation more than the user.Then there is the Griffin Moto RC car... I have 3 of these! Why? Because they are dumping them like hotcakes by local stores for pennies on the dollar. They are fun, fast and nicely built but they rely on an iPhone app to control them via Bluetooth. I happen to have a bunch of old phones and grabbed the app while it still works... but Griffin discontinued this model and future support is unlikely. Which means eventually you may not have the capability to even remotely control the car! So they can only sell them for peanuts now.Look here:https://secure.sayal.com/STORE2/View_SHOP.php?SKU=246411That's $9.95 CAN which is like $7.50 US. They are worth buying just to hack the parts. I only have iPhone but maybe an Android APK is floating around for the Bluetooth remote that can be downloaded in case App Store doesn't have it.[EDIT: Turns out only iPhone/iPad app, so your $h!t-out-of -luck if it gets pulled from Apple or becomes incompatible, and there is no way to grab the app like an APK rip)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 07:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: edy on December 03, 2019, 12:53:18 pmNever have truer words been uttered. As they say, nothing is free in this world. If a company is giving something away for "free" to all its users, there is almost always a catch.Just like social media, users think they are the customer, when they are actually the product. These companies make huge sums of money by selling and using your personal information and content.No, thanks.