"LED's" or "Lead's" boxes or -/\/\/\- - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:12:06 pm
content: Is this a uk vs american thing? Leads versus saying L,E,Ds? A kid in my third grade class would call them "leads" and piss me off because he thought he was smarter then me. Mrs. Johnson and her third grade class knew otherwise.But eevblog Dave, bigclive.com and other east hemisphere, crazy right hand drivers draw their resisters as boxes. Drives me nut because I was always taught that boxes were for odd ball parts and resisters were -\/\/\- zigzags. ITS AN L-E-D AND A ZIGZAG GOD DAMN IT!!!!!(the 's were fixed. I type faster then I think.)

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:33:48 pm
content: 1930 called and wants it zigzags back.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:37:27 pm
content: The boxes vs. zig-zag lines is a European vs. US thing.On one hand the open box allows you to print the value (and/or designator) inside the box.OTOH, they seem to have several different components that all use a rectangle like that, so it is sometimes ambiguous.Apparently pronouncing the acronym for Light Emitting Diode as "lead" is more common in non-English speaking circles.In English context, it is indistinguishable from the word for the heavy metal, so many people prefer to pronounce it: "L-E-D"Of course, if you are watching a YouTube video about the light-emitting components, there should be no ambiguity.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on November 21, 2016, 10:12:06 pmYou are allowed to choose. It is a matter of personal preference (fashion, if you like). My cultural background is Britain, and I prefer to say L-E-D. It's easy enough to say and I see no reason to abbreviate it to "led".Likewise, I grew up with resistors being drawn as zig-zag lines. That's how everyone did it back in the old days. Today I still draw them that way if I am sketching a circuit because it is easier to draw them that way by hand. Everyone recognizes what the symbol means, so what's the big deal?In short, live and let live, and don't fuss. Or I'll start asking you about the correct way to pronounce advertisement.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:55:31 pm
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on November 21, 2016, 10:12:06 pmHmm.. On the subject of glass house and stones...Is it just a rednecky thing to use apostrophe where it shouldn't be?As far as I'm aware, every more or less literate kid knows that "LED's" means:- posesive case, e.g. "This is an LED's pin" -> "This pin belongs to LED"- "LED is" or "LED has" e.g. "LED's dead", "LED's died"While "LEDs" represents a plural form of "LED". I.e. "I have a lot of LEDs in my box"

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on November 21, 2016, 10:55:31 pmThat annoys me too! A good rule of thumb is if you replace the apostrophe with the word "is" and it doesn't make sense or you're not using it to show possession, then it doesn't belong (exceptions apply).

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 11:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 21, 2016, 10:17:24 pmIt's Microsoft Sequel and Postgres Ess Que El.Anyone who actually says the individual letters ("N A S A") instead of saying just NASA is a tool. (My grandfather worked at NASA Langley for 25 years, everybody there called it NASA.)

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 11:38:08 pm
content: NASA with letters is the car people, NASA pronounced is the space agency.I still draw my resistors as squiggles when hand drawing circuits. Loops for inductors. I say the letters LED, if I hear "lead" I am expecting to hear "zeppelin" after it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 03:10:54 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on November 21, 2016, 11:38:08 pmSameQuote... or 'flashing' (building material), shielding (radiology), pipe (plumbing), weight (fishing - or that goldbrick in the office) ...but I like your option better.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 03:57:29 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 21, 2016, 10:59:24 pmOr it's vs. it is.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 05:01:54 am
content: Language is weird, we all have our preferences, for me it'sL.E.DS.Q.LB.J.Tbut...FetJ.FetMos.FetJ.PegGif (not Jif)And I use zig zag resistors.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:08:50 am
content: Quote from: timb on November 21, 2016, 11:18:44 pmPlease don't start that argument ;-) It will end in tears/bloodshed.I will admit though that "sequel" makes me cringe because of a complete douchebag boss I had years ago who said it constantly. So for me it's "S-Q-L".Also, it's "S-A-P" not "Sap". ;-)

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:53:24 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 21, 2016, 10:37:27 pmOne of the problem with zig-zags is they can be ambiguous on hastily hand draw schematic: they can be confused with inductors.It's not a problem on printed schematics though.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 12:21:25 pm
content: I was taught to use boxes for resistors and that's what I normally use. But I'm not fussed what other people use. My only problem is that a badly drawn zigzag resistor can look like a badly drawn inductor and vice versa.As for led vs L.E.D., I tend to say which ever springs to mind first.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 12:34:01 pm
content: Its the inconsistency of the English language. NASA with two vowels separated by a single non-vowel should, be the long a so it should be pronounces naasa but its an exception to the rule and pronounces as the short nassa.I used to drive my English teacher crazy asking about all the exceptions to the rules. But with all the exceptions it was harder to write a program to do your work.Could be worse though, at least you don't have to listen to everyone who went to Walmarts. "ohh you went to more than one, why not get what you needed at the first one?"

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 12:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: timb on November 21, 2016, 11:18:44 pmThat'd be "queue", wouldn't it?

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 01:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on November 22, 2016, 12:48:46 pmTouché.

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 02:43:29 pm
content: I personally prefer a mixture of US and IEC symbols, even though my teachers at university tend to kill me when I draw the resistors with the zigzag line and inductors with the black box.. I do this mainly because I tend to have bad drawing skills, meaning, a square resistor wouldn`t be a square but more like some sort of smashed, mushy thing which could be identified as either a resistor, an inductor or even a fuse. So I write the zigzag line to tell "that is a resistor" and use the box for inductors - because the loop-inductor can be quite simmilar to a badly drawn zigzag-resistor...What I really hate is the difference between all those logic gates, I can`t really focus on one way to draw them, switching between styles whenever i feel like doing so...Regarding the LED-Thing: I prefer L-E-D. I also prefer to say Serial ATA and not Sata(n).

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 03:13:39 pm
content: I quite like the Elektor house style (which is I think generally IEC) for schematic symbols and tend to hand draw my own schematics with them but separate out logic elements to the American style just because they make sense to me at a glance as I was taught those as a teenager.I'm sure many people will be cringing but they're my schematics and I don't generally share them unless I've used a CAD program to make them human readable

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 03:41:30 pm
content: I switch back and forth between boxes and zigzags, depending on which one I find easier to draw that day.LED: "ell ee dee"SQL: "sequel"NASA: "nassa" (never heard anything else)queue: "kweew" (think about it—you won't go back)GIF: with a hard GSATA: to rhyme with NASApasta: "pass-ta", not "poss-ta" like the Americans sayQuote from: Ysjoelfir on November 22, 2016, 02:43:29 pmBox inductor symbol? I don't think I've seen it, and Google isn't helping.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 03:57:31 pm
content: Quote from: PointyOintment on November 22, 2016, 03:41:30 pmI thought about it, and felt nauseous. Your pronunciation even sounds like the noise you make when you smell something nastyQuoteWouldn't it be better to rhyme it with 'patter'?QuoteInternational symbol, according to Sparkfun's handyguide.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 04:03:59 pm
content: Quote from: PointyOintment on November 22, 2016, 03:41:30 pmYou forgot one:SCSI = "scuzzy"on the other hand, IDE = "eye dee ee"

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:25:09 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 22, 2016, 04:03:59 pmand daata and datta

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:26:20 pm
content: i pronounce "lead" in my language, which is how i would naturally say LED. Otherwise i should say "Elle - E - Dì" which is not practical at all.However, L-E-Ds when i speak english.BJT,MOSFET,.. that's wasy. it's exactly the same!Explain to the kid that's not correct as it's an acronym. he'll eventually understand the value of doing things correctly... or not

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:37:30 pm
content: Sodder and solder.To a British English speaker, well, it's either a regional contraction of Sod Her or, yeah, let's not go there on an electronics forum

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 22, 2016, 08:37:30 pmOr perhaps more correctly:sodder (AmEnglish)soulder (BrEnglish)same as aluminum vs. aluminuminiminum

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 08:56:48 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 22, 2016, 08:43:33 pmOr color and colour. Why have extra letters when near enough is good enough? Spelling is hard.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:04:52 pm
content: Yup. Near enuf is certainly good enuf

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:09:04 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 22, 2016, 08:56:48 pmIt's so hard they have spelling competitions!!! IDK if it is a US-only event or if spelling bees are held in every English speaking country.Being someone who doesn't have English as my first language, there are a few annoyances in it, specially when (A) 2 words with identical spelling can different sounds, or (B) words with different spellings can have the same sound (aka "homophones"). Examples:(A) Lead (verb) and Lead (the metal Pb)(B) Stationary (as in "not moving") and Stationery (like office supplies)Brake and Breakthe list goes on. Two words, however, that are a killer for anyone learning English, are "beach" and "bitch". For most non-English it is pretty hard to tell the difference, let alone say them so people can tell the difference! It took me quite some time to be able to do both!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:15:01 pm
content: I have heard that beach and bitch might be especially hard for speakers of Latin languages like Spanish and Portuguese. I assume those languages do not have a separate vowels for "ee" (keep, seep, weep, deep) and "i" (bit, hit, lit, fit)?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:25:47 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 22, 2016, 08:43:33 pmNope, it's definitely Solder here up in the frozen north of the UK

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:26:27 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 22, 2016, 08:56:48 pmYes, y hav xtra leters wen ner enuf is gud enuf?

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 22, 2016, 09:15:01 pmIt's different. In Portuguese we use accents to change how the vowel sounds, so just by reading the word one knows its correct pronunciation. One spelling corresponds to one pronunciation. There are no 1-to-2 or 2-to-1 correspondence in spelling to pronunciation.E and I, however, sound entirely different from English.E sounds like the vowel in "say", "hey". Always!É sounds like the vowel in "hat", "mat", "sad". Always!I sounds like "keep", "sheet". Always!Í sounds like "hit", fit, lit. Always!That makes it a little easier for learners, because the pronunciation doesn't change according to context (like example "A" in my previous post). However, I find English a lot easier to learn than Portuguese, but mostly because of the verbs. Latin languages are quite complicated when it comes to verbal tenses.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 09:32:05 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 22, 2016, 09:09:04 pmI think this example, like many others across different languages has a lot to do with exposure - or hearing - the language spoken regularly during the "critical period" of language development in the brain during early childhood. The brain is basically developmentally programmed to learn language during a few key years in early childhood. Even if one never has reason to speak another language (other than their native language) during those key years, by hearing it spoken regularly during that time period they will have an easier time later in life learning that language and in particularly distinguishing between subtle phoneme differences that are not used in their native language. I think this also makes it easier for someone to learn to speak the language without much accent later in life.I know for me - as hard as I may try, I cannot distinguish between certain Asian language phonemes. No matter how hard I try, I cannot "hear" the differencesI found it interesting that years ago when I spent quite a bit of time in Spain and Portugal that their was a key difference in how much of an accent those fluent in English had. Because most television programming came from English speaking countries, most TV in Spain was dubbed into Spanish while most in Portugal was left in English but with Portuguese subtitles. The result was the Portuguese often has less of an accent than the Spaniards when speaking English - since they had grown up listening to TV in English.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 10:32:29 pm
content: Quote from: PointyOintment on November 22, 2016, 03:41:30 pmLonger first "A" please, because with NASSA I always have to think of The Old Negro Space Program.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 11:25:30 pm
content: Why use an acronym at all?Just call it lightodiode/light diode/diode light/diolight/something, the same way you do vacuum cleaners, spaceships, railroads, microwavers, websites and so on.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 11:29:23 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on November 22, 2016, 11:25:30 pmbecause then you can't make jokes likeM. N. O. L. E. DsM. R. 2 L.E.D'sL. I'll B, M. R. L.E.D's

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 11:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 22, 2016, 09:27:58 pmAh, I did a quick check. According to Wikipedia, Portuguese phonology is quite rich, and there are also significant differences between European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese. So probably most English vowel sounds are found somewhere in Portuguese.One thing to mention is that in English a long "i" sound is different from an "ee" sound. If you say "bitch" with a long i it sounds like "biich", not like "beach". (But I don't know of any English words that actually have a long "i" sound in them. If you say bitch with a long i it would be for emphasis, as in "Biitch, please!").

author: darrellg
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 11:56:10 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 22, 2016, 05:01:54 amNot according to the creators of the format.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Pronunciation_of_GIF

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 11:56:29 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 22, 2016, 09:27:58 pmI know some Spanish speakers who would disagree with that.Written Spanish and Portuguese are very similar on paper but sound very different. At least in Portugal it's the case that native Portuguese can understand spoken and written Spanish without much difficulty while the reverse is not true - that is, Spaniards can understand Portuguese when written but have difficultly when listening to it spoken.My Portuguese girlfriend of many years ago commented that because it was a common occurrence that when a Spaniard and Portuguese tried to communicate the Spaniard could not understand what the Portuguese was saying while the Portuguese had no trouble understanding the Spaniard - the result was that many Portuguese just thought Spaniards were not very smart....

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 01:26:57 am
content: Quote from: darrellg on November 22, 2016, 11:56:10 pmTough. President Obama and I prefer GifThe creators of the PNG format wanted it to be pronounced 'ping', but many people prefer to spell it out as pee-en-gee, which avoids confusion with the networking utility.As the Stones famously observed, you can't always get what you want.

author: Synthetase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 01:53:54 am
content: I've seen a few people getting angry at mikeselectricstuff for pronouncing it 'lead' instead of L.E.D. (which I personally use). However, these people don't bat an eyelid when he says 'laser' instead of L.A.S.E.R.I mean, if you're going to die on that hill, at least be consistent...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 02:21:33 am
content: Quote from: darrellg on November 22, 2016, 11:56:10 pmI'm not a fan of peanut butter - so I'll go with the hard 'G' ... which is consistent with the mnemonic derivation from "Graphics Interchange Format", where the 'G' of 'Graphics' is a hard 'G'.Back on topic, I like the zig-zag resistor symbol because it is more suggestive of the component's function. You also don't have to lift the pen when drawing one by hand.Getting back off topic - but consistent with some of the tangents already thrown in here....... How many different pronunciations of the letters 'ough' can you identify in the English language?

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 02:48:07 am
content: With regards to the zigzag resistor symbol, I distinctly remember being told at Tech. (many, many years ago) here in Oz, that thenewway of drawing them was as boxes.It seems at the time, the push towards CAD and the limitations in graphics back then lead to simplification of symbols such as the IEEE box symbols for logic gates instead of the more classic curvy ones.Any old school people here would remember that a diagonal line on a computer screen would be chunky and pixelated as opposed to a horizontal or vertical line

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 02:57:14 am
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 22, 2016, 04:03:59 pmCan also be pronounced "sexy", but then "i sexy" sounds even more Apple than it is already.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 02:57:24 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on November 22, 2016, 11:56:29 pmI don't know Spanish well enough to enter a linguistics discussion about it, so my comment was about Portuguese only.Although I can understand Spanishfairly well (like your gf said we do), I can speak it just enough to get by, but I never had any formal education or schooling in Spanish (like I did in English, but I've forgotten more than I know now).QuoteWell, that doesn't begin to describe what we think of the Portuguese! Back when I lived in the US, Americans used to make jokes about the Polish (do they still do it?!). Well, we make those jokes (and worse) about the Portuguese, because compared to them, our mules are Nobel nominees!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 08:41:44 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 22, 2016, 09:34:11 pm

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 02:31:31 pm
content: Quote from: PointyOintment on November 22, 2016, 03:41:30 pmSATA: Serial Aye Tee Aye

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 03:17:27 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on November 22, 2016, 04:03:59 pm"scuzzy" is also common over here. And we pronounce PATA (IDE) and SATA often "peh ahtah" and "ess ahtah".

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 03:30:15 pm
content: i expect SATA claus 2 climb down my broadband this xmusdid i mention routers or rootrs as some of the UK may say

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 05:19:06 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on November 24, 2016, 03:30:15 pmI know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 06:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 24, 2016, 03:17:27 pmPaytah and Saytah.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 06:14:49 pm
content: Quote from: timb on November 24, 2016, 06:09:44 pmSarah Palin's grandkids?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 06:27:13 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on November 24, 2016, 05:19:06 pmA "rooter" works out the best route to a destination. A "rowter" is a tool that cuts slots in things.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 06:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on November 24, 2016, 05:19:06 pmA former Aussie work mate told me that I shouldn't pronounce a router "rooter" in Australia which might cause some embarrassment. In my industry everyone says "rowter" anyway, but when speaking German it's "rooter".

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 07:14:46 pm
content: What about a Roto Router?

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2016, 07:33:18 pm
content: So the rooter is the rootenist tootinest rooter?

author: smithnerd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 02:21:35 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 24, 2016, 06:27:13 pmThe packet directing router 'routes' (roots), the woodworking tool 'routs' (rowts). The E on the end changes the vowel sound.I think that's also the general rule that people who say 'kaysh' for cache (kash) are misapplying. The OED has IPA guides for Scots/US/Aus/NZ dialect variations, but it doesn't have one for 'kaysh'.I won't let it bother me though, Dave.We call SATA 'sahta' 'round these parts.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 03:02:05 am
content: I refer to cache as "Kay-sh". If I hear someone say "cash", I straight away think of money. I've also heard "Cash-aye".I refer to SATA as "Serial A-T-A". Pronouncing it phonetically sounds awfully close to aFinnish swear word.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 03:23:37 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 25, 2016, 03:02:05 amI believe "cash-eh" is the correct way to say it, based on the origins of the word. Though, "cash" has become so used when referring to computer memory, it would be okay to pronounce the word differently depending on usage.Your computer has a CPU cash; the enemy has a cash-aye of weapons.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 03:43:10 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 25, 2016, 03:02:05 amQuote from: timb on November 25, 2016, 03:23:37 amI have always understood cache to be pronounced as "cash" (it is a French borrowing and the French pronunciation is like cash).You can verify from various sources, for example:http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/cachehttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cachehttps://youtu.be/_rCcV6MiQZ0

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 03:45:36 am
content: Quote from: timb on November 25, 2016, 03:23:37 amIncidentally, there is a different wordcachet, which is indeed pronounced as "cash-eh".

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 05:09:02 am
content: I used to always pronounce the letters of LED, until at one place I worked we somehow started an ongoing joke of insisting that all acronyms must be pronounced as words. This was in the days when laptops had PCMCIA slots...The one that really annoys me is when people say "PCB Board." A co-host of a certain electronics podcast (not Amp Hour) says this, as well as the non-electronics annoyances of saying "granite" instead of "granted," and pronouncing "especially" with a K.I never liked rectangles for resistors, IEC symbols, or the Elektor schematic style. All things that in my mind fix problems that never existed.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 05:16:22 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 24, 2016, 06:27:13 pmA "rooter" is an animal that uses its nose to find food. Often they are the source of bacon.You just have to pick your poison. There will be confusion whichever way you say it. You may be able to select who you confuse.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 05:16:58 am
content: Quote from: Carl_Smith on November 25, 2016, 05:09:02 amBut "Pik-Mik-E-Ah" is so fun to say!

author: denverpilot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 06:04:51 am
content: Quote from: raspberrypi on November 21, 2016, 10:12:06 pmNothing to fix if you're old -- I have at least one if not three writing style guides around here which show that in formal papers the plural of an acronym used "'s" back in the day.But with more and more things like Compact Disc becoming "CD" in formal writing, typing C.D.'s or later CD's went out of vogue with the formal writing crowd and now they appear to pluralize via capitalization only.Of course, almost no one types R.A.D.A.R. anymore, either.Language mutates.But " 's " was once the accurate, formal, way to pluralize an acronym.(Just like that Oxford comma I just snuck into that sentence. Also no longer correct per the Associated Press style guide and others, and more controversial. "Let's eat, grandma!" vs "Let's eat grandma!")

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 06:51:02 am
content: In schematics/articles/books I like zigzag for a resistor and box for general impedance symbol. With hand-drawn symbols I've seen too many resistors that looked just like inductors drawn on blackboards or lecture notes. Especially when someone wants to quickly explain a concept and chicken-scratches a fragment of circuit. Usually at the moment of explanation it's obvious from context which one it will be, but not so obvious looking at it few months laterMy pet peeve are two popular symbols for current source - circle with arrow inside and two intertwining circles. First one means VOLTAGE source in circuit theory and second one is used as transformer in electrical drawings.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 06:53:46 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 25, 2016, 06:37:23 amDepends on your use of the word 'fixed'.If it is the past tense of the verb to 'fix', then the fixing action has been completed - and 'were' is used correctly.If it is used as an adjective to describe "the 's" thenblueskull's criticism is valid.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 06:56:52 am
content: Yeah I know rightAnd what about programmers that call the char variable type aCHar! Like CHoo CHoo train!... and strcat... Star-cat

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 09:05:23 am
content: Quote from: denverpilot on November 25, 2016, 06:04:51 amCapitalization, Punctuation and Grammar Matter:"I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse."vs"I helped my uncle jack off a horse!"The more you know! ~~~#

author: darrellg
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 04:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: timb on November 25, 2016, 09:05:23 am

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 05:24:00 pm
content: Commas are funny things. I was taught years ago in grade school that you should use one any time a part of a sentence can stand on its own. Doing that you end up with a lot of commas. Now I favor using them only when the meaning is different with and without the comma. I was using them a lot to pluralize acronyms, but came to realize that's not a proper use of a comma, makes the acronym look possessive. People still do that a lot though. I sometimes do it myself inadvertently.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 07:20:41 pm
content: Quote from: CraigHB on November 25, 2016, 05:24:00 pmYou have confused me there, and possibly yourself as well.A comma sits on the bottom of the line, like this -> ,An apostrophe sits above the line, like this -> 'They are different punctuation symbols with different names and uses.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 09:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 25, 2016, 07:20:41 pmOur European (and European-descendant) friends seem to use the term "inverted comma" for the mark we call "apostrophe".

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 09:13:00 pm
content: SCPI = "skippy"SciPy = "Sci Pie"

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2016, 10:54:38 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 25, 2016, 09:11:09 pmI am native born British, having grown up there and spent most of my life there, and I do recall the term inverted comma now that you mention it. However, it is maybe something used around children to avoid them struggling to say (and spell) apostrophe. Apostrophe has always been the formal and correct word, as evidenced by, for example, Keith Waterhouse'sAAAA(Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe).

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2016, 07:11:19 am
content: Quote from: timb on November 25, 2016, 05:16:58 amIt was reasonably common in Australia to pronounce PCMCIA as "P-C Mica", but to me it just sounded wanky. I always pronounced all the letters as in P-C-M-C-I-A.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2016, 12:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 27, 2016, 07:11:19 amMe too.

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2016, 10:36:00 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on November 24, 2016, 05:19:06 pmWorking with computer networks for 20 years my mind is conditioned to say 'rowter' when talking about network routers and bus 'root' when travelling.

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 12:40:20 am
content: Quote from: SteveyG on November 24, 2016, 02:31:31 pmSo you pronounce it "say-tay"?Quote from: Carl_Smith on November 25, 2016, 05:09:02 amIf you don't pronounce it is as a word, it's not an acronym—it's an initialism.Quote from: denverpilot on November 25, 2016, 06:04:51 amThat's not an Oxford comma. "accurate, formal, and way" vs. "accurate, formal and way" demonstrates the Oxford comma (but doesn't make much sense). Oxford comma is not even a valid concept, AFAIK, in the context of listing adjectives before a noun without the use of 'and'.

author: denverpilot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 01:19:17 am
content: Quote from: denverpilot on November 25, 2016, 06:04:51 amQuote from: PointyOintment on November 28, 2016, 12:40:20 amTrue, bad example of the comma, but the point was, style guides change and unless you're making a living with formal writing, you'll write it the way you learned it. The pluralization by " 's " once was just fine.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 04:19:21 am
content: Quote from: denverpilot on November 28, 2016, 01:19:17 amNot where I come from. The apostrophe was always to indicate the possessive form or for a contraction -neverpluralization.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 04:40:49 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 28, 2016, 04:26:01 amThat's my read on the subject.From what I have noticed, there has been a fairly lax attitude on grammar since I was in school - and incorrect usage has gone unchallenged. Even when it is, those who point it out are castigated with the tag "Spelling Police" or "Grammar Police".

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 05:32:13 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 25, 2016, 10:54:38 pmWhen I was young,the term "inverted commas" was common in Oz,but it was a synonym for "quotation marks"( these things:-" "),not apostrophes.We normally wrote them with the "tails" down like ordinary commas,but I have seen them really "inverted",with the "tail" up,or occasionally with the one at the beginning of the quote "tail down" & the one at the end "tail up".Back on topic,I think the "rectangular box" resistor symbol significantly pre-datedcomputer drafting & was adopted to make it easier for manual drafting.After all,a rectangular drawing aid was a lot easier to use than a "zigzag line" one.Another possible reason was the fact that Industrial Electronics liked to draw inductors as zig-zag lines.These days,computer drafting makes either resistor symbol easy to use,& zigzag lines for inductors never took off in mainstream Electronics.Australia originally had more influence from the UK & USA than from Europe,hence zigzag resistor symbols became the style of choice.Japan uses them,too,so another "zig zag" influence was added.As a result,even though the rectangle style is "supposed to be" the official symbol,both are in wide use.In the end,both styles are easily readable.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 05:58:33 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 28, 2016, 04:26:01 amThe explanation is quite straightforward.The plural of a word is formed by adding an s without an apostrophe, so for exampleboard/boards,transistor/transistors.An s with an apostrophe is used to mark possession, for example "John's boards came back faulty from the manufacturer."However, apostrophes are also used to form contractions, by joining together two things that are normally separate, for exampleit isbecomesit's.This joining usage was at one time extended to forming the plural of acronyms or abbreviations, so for example the plural ofLEDwould be written asLED's. Thesis not part of the abbreviation, therefore it is separated with an apostrophe to indicate that it is something joined on, that it is not part of the thing being pluralized.But over time, grammatical style has tended towards simplicity, and people started treating LED like a word rather than an abbreviation and therefore dropping the apostrophe in the plural and writingLEDs.I would say it is still acceptable to writeLED'sas the plural, but such usage does seem to be dying out.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 11:17:28 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 28, 2016, 05:58:33 amTo me, that doesn't follow logically.Think about it, abbreviations and acronyms pretty much always contain capital letters, so the "S" being lowercase indicates it's not part of the abbrevronym and is instead implying plurality.

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 04:13:50 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 25, 2016, 07:20:41 pmHaha, forgot to take my meds yesterday morning. But yeah I meant apostrophe, not comma. I guess I had a mental block about spelling that darn word.I actually liked my English classes in college. I enjoyed the ones most with writing assignments. I like writing, that's why I visit various forums.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 12:03:49 pm
content: My college english was pretty easy. By then I already had several assignments from high school that I was able to simply open and re-print one of those and hand in.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 06:14:45 pm
content: The only thing I liked about English class was diagramming sentences. (Perhaps it reminded me of schematic diagrams.)I remember this illustration from Scientific American back in the 1960s discussing the ambiguities in parsing language:Of course, 50 years later Google (et.al.) has solved it by simply throwing MFLOPS at the problem.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2016, 06:37:56 pm
content: Fruit flies like a banana.

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 11:18:11 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 30, 2016, 06:14:45 pmReminds me of:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/what-sentence-diagrams-re_n_167988.htmlMore:https://www.google.ca/search?q=obama+sentence+diagram&tbm=ischI particularly like this one:http://www.german-latin-english.com/Barack_Obama_44.jpg(quite large so I didn't embed it)

author: raspberrypi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 06:15:49 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on November 24, 2016, 05:19:06 pmKangarooter

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 10:42:26 pm
content: I draw resistors as boxes, and call LEDs like LEDs and not L.E.Ds

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 11:19:21 pm
content: Ell Eee Dee.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 12:07:10 am
content: Learning about electronics in the USA, mostly from my dad, the one that was a surprise for me was nanofarads. Traditionally in the US you just went from <1000 pF to .001 uF. But the more I've been exposed to it, the more it actually feels less awkward to write 1 nF, 10 nF, 100 nF.

author: JustMac
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 02:18:13 am
content: Dare I ask how gigahertz is pronounced ?

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 03:25:56 am
content: I would say gee-ga-hurts (with a unpronounced g, so no "djeeeee-djaaaa" ())

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 03:47:48 am
content: Quote from: JustMac on January 07, 2017, 02:18:13 amHow it is spelled: gig-a-hertzThere is no need for popcorn as there is no ambiguity about it.

author: JustMac
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 04:50:49 am
content: Quote from: IanB on January 07, 2017, 03:47:48 amSo it's jig-a-hurts like the G in giants ?Or gig-a-hurts like the G in gag me with a spoon ?

author: SpaceCow
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 02:43:07 pm
content: I call them leads just for the sole purpose of annoying "un-lead-"folks like the OP.