Rigol  DS1000 scope, fantastic if true? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2024, 06:23:06 pm
content: The user manual for the Rigol DS1000 series scopes clearly states that waveform (.WFM) traces can be saved to disk, recalled, and played back on the scope. Additionally horizontal, vertical, etc. scale settings can then be changed, presumably for detailed analysis.PLEASE TELL ME THIS TRUE and that I am understanding the below applicable Rigol user manual statement correctly.I have been searching for weeks trying to find a reasonably priced 4ch benchtop DSO that provides this seemingly basic capability (to my mind) of any STORAGE oscilloscope. Except for some PC scopes and maybe some MICSIG tablets, I have not found any with this seemingly fundamental capability. I am hoping that someone here can confirm this capability actually exists. Or, if not, suggest a scope that does have it.I need this capability and I am hoping the latest series of DHO800 scopes also has this feature, although the DHO800 manual does not give any significant indication that it does so. It briefly says that .WFM files can be saved, but no mention of playback.DS1000 MANUAL STATEMENT:“Save the main setting information (e.g. "On/Off" states of the channels, vertical scale and horizontal scale) and waveform data of all enabled channels (analog channel and digital channel) to the external memory in "*.wfm" format. When the waves file is loaded, the system will set the oscilloscope based on its existing saved setting information of the oscilloscope and recall all the waveform data. When the loading is complete, the oscilloscope will be in the "STOP" state. Under such situation, you can adjust the waveform display by changing the setting (such as the horizontal scale and vertical scale) of the oscilloscope; or you can adopt the one-key measurement or cursor measurement to measure the waveform parameters.Note:The reading and saving operations of the file in ".wfm" format can only be completed on the oscilloscope.If you set the oscilloscope to be in the "RUN" state, the oscilloscope will start over the waveform sampling. (That means, the loaded waveform data will be cleared.)”

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2024, 08:40:14 pm
content: Yes, it can save the state of the display and controls and recall them. What is so fantastic about it?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2024, 08:46:28 pm
content: What do you mean by "played back'?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2024, 08:47:40 pm
content: It just restores the state of the controls and display to the way it was at the time of capture. Not sure why that would be useful, never needed that in my life before that.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2024, 09:07:31 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 31, 2024, 08:47:40 pmThat was for the OP and what I meant was I think he may expect the scope to "play back" a multi-screen capture like a movie.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2024, 09:50:06 pm
content: I think this is pretty standard, as my Hantek can do this too.The Rigol can certainly do this.You simply load a saved “Stop” situation.It's not like a screenshot, you can do everything with the signals like with a normal “Stop”. Change V/div and s/div, automatic measurements, cursors, math, zoom etc.This means that you can use it later to take measurements that you may have forgotten at the moment.If you press Run/Stop again, the saved waveform disappears.

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 03:14:05 am
content: Yes, like others have explained the data is saved to internal disk (or USB) then later recalled into the scope memory and displayed just like the original scope capture.I need it because I occasionally use my scope in the field (computers, autos, boats or wherever). And I would much rather analyze the data at my home base. Other times if I capture a rare event I may want to preserve it to free up my scope to capture it again under then more knowledgeable diagnostic circumstances.Okay, maybe it's not widely needed by many, but most scopes have several ways to "archive/preserve" data (jpg, bin, CSV, MP4, etc.) why not a simple copy and reload. Of course, it's probably not that simple.Anyway, best I can tell most benchtop scopes don't have this capability. Yes, the Hantek is one of the few scopes I found that has such capability but they don't seem to have a 4 ch scope. And best I can tell the new Rigol DHO800/900 series does not have it. And my Siglent SDS1104X-E doesn't have it (V.G. otherwise), nor do any of the other moderate priced scopes according to their documentation.And I have found other EEVBLOG postings asking about such record/playback capability so I am not the only one. Most of those postings did not offer good solutions.Some scopes have REF files that when loaded can be manipulated (timebase, vertical, etc) and that may be a reasonable alternative but I suspect not totally satisfactory.I am going to buy the Rigol DHO804 hoping that it has my needed save/recall capability or some reasonable alternative.Thanks everyone,Frank

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 03:30:13 am
content: Quote from: frank2644 on January 01, 2025, 03:14:05 amSince you have an SDS1104X-E, you can already just press "print" and then view the file later on your computer. Then the sole improvement you're looking for is to be able to display that on the scope itself? My ancient ScopeMeter does that, but I've never even thought of looking for the feature with modern scopes. AFAIK, the only thing you can do with the SDS1104X-E is to save 4 reference files, REF A to REF D.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 09:38:54 am
content: Quote from: frank2644 on January 01, 2025, 03:14:05 amThat scope (according to manual) does definitely cannot do what you want. Hoping that it will won't help you.Best scopes for this purpose are Picoscopes.Some Siglent scopes (more expensive ones) can. Generally many more expensive analytic scopes do.With Siglent you can save the waveforms and open it later with SigScopeLab PC application. That you should be able to do with SDS800xHD. That is also a more advanced analytic scope than DHO800.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 09:44:33 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 01, 2025, 09:38:54 amWhich might be perfect for Frank's needs if it wasn't for the 2Mpts limitation.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-record-save-playback/msg5764351/#msg5764351I fail to see why such a small BIN/CSV must be used with a PC application expressly designed for post capture work.

author: seronday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 11:43:54 am
content: Quote from: frank2644 on December 31, 2024, 06:23:06 pmFrank,The Rigol DS1000Z series DSO's will do exactly what you are asking for.It works as you found described in the user manual and is also possible to do math operations on the saved waveform, eg Filter, FFT etc.Regards.

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 05:12:04 pm
content: More good replies, Thank you.1. Although the DS1000 does what I want I couldn't see buying a roughly 10 year old design..2. Picoscopes are probably best, but I dislike PC based scope simulated knob twisting and then I need to drag a laptop. And I'd probably have to replace my roughly 15 year old laptop.3. I tried SigScopeLab with my SDS1104X-E and it would not read it's bin files. Further the 2MPT limitation sounds way to small. Maybe Rigol has similar PC based analytical software that works?4. I tried the Siglent REF files but they seemed low resolution and frozen (can't chg timebase, etc). Maybe the Rigol's REF files have such capability?5. Typically today I use JPG's and even record waveform videos with my phone. Although without the ability to add comments the JPGs are annoying. The videos are useful because it also records my verbal comments describing what circuit point, etc. is being monitored.6. I was notified the Rigol I ordered delivery is 2-3 weeks away.. Perhaps I could cancel if there is quick answer for something better.If anybody has a good solution or have answers to the question marks in this note, I'm still listening.Thanks again,Frank

author: TheoB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 10:09:23 am
content: Feels like a reasonable wish. With a network connection all data can be grabbed from the scope (raw data+all relevant settings). That already works for the DHO8/9 series scopes and probably most other LXI based scopes as well.The rigol scope also has a physical button "Quick" that can be reprogrammed to either save a png/jpg or "Save Wave" to local disk:CVS looks like this:Code:# head RigolDS0.csvTime(s),CH1V,CH2V-2.500000e-04,-2.009200e-01,-1.965067e-01-2.495000e-04,-1.998000e-01,-2.000000e-01-2.490000e-04,-2.009200e-01,-1.987600e-01-2.485000e-04,-1.998000e-01,-1.977600e-01-2.480000e-04,-1.991733e-01,-1.982533e-01-2.475000e-04,-1.993067e-01,-1.951333e-01-2.470000e-04,-1.981867e-01,-1.945067e-01-2.465000e-04,-1.990533e-01,-1.976267e-01-2.460000e-04,-1.986800e-01,-2.002533e-01....

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 04:22:46 pm
content: Quote from: TheoB on January 02, 2025, 10:09:23 amI'm guessing you are showing the potential capability of CVS files, which seem pretty useful.Although perhaps I am missing your poin, That is, the "waveform" PNG capture by itself doesn't seem very helpful. IOW I assume a simple Rigol screen print would give a lot more information, like Siglent's attached PNG that shows the scope setup, etc. So I don't see why Rigol provides that "waveform" capability.Thanks,Frank

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 04:37:28 pm
content: BTW, I just noticed that my Siglent scope provides a "matlab" download and I'm wondering if that might somehow provide the replay capability I'm looking for. Perhaps through a matlab viewer??Hopefully the cost implications are reasonable.

author: TheoB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 04:51:43 pm
content: You can do all combinations with the Rigol using the menu. But since you mention you want to quickly store the data for later analysis, I mention the Quick button (which is just a keyboard shortcut).From the menu you can save a screenshot (with all settings displayed), but that's indeed static. You can also store a wave as reference. That can be reloaded in a reference. The format is unknown, so not suitable for off-line analyses. For the offline scenario the CSV (not CVS) is the best choice. It cannot reload the CSV data back into the scope. For that you need to use the reference waveform. Would be nice if the reference wave format would be known (it's binary data).The menu option storage has the option to save the setup, the screen or the wave (as I showed). It also has a reload option but only for settings. That's rather useless I feel.Just play with it once you receive your scope.

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 06:30:25 pm
content: Okay thanksAnd yes, "CSV"..

author: Dave_g8
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 09:08:06 pm
content: Hi,The waveform file does not allow a real time playback, but it does allow post analysis on the oscilloscope at any time, which does have some potential uses.There are several screenshots below from my DS1054Z.The first is the captured signal from the 1kHz calibration output on the oscilloscope.All other screenshots are generated after loading the wfm file and adjusting the timebase, adding measurements and cursers.I hope this covers the original question. I am not sure if the serial decoders will also work from the wfm file, I would need to check.Regards, Dave

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 09:26:06 pm
content: Quote from: Dave_g8 on January 02, 2025, 09:08:06 pmI think so.It looks like it works like the Hantek DSO2000.I assume math also works with the “restored” data?

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 11:00:12 pm
content: Thanks, Dave,Yes, you fully answered my question..No wonder the DS1054z was the top selling scope for many years. I really struggled between buying the DS1054z or the DHO804. I finally decided on the DHO804 because of it's many other modern features, like small size, 12bits, touch screen, web server, possible external battery operation, etc. I am disappointed that the save and replay option was removed, although apparently many folks don't find it that useful.If I stumble across a used one I may still buy one if I haven't found a satisfactory solution for my need.Aldo22's reply reminded me that Hantek also has the save and replay capability.And I recently discovered that Hantek does make a benchtop 4ch scope but I think it's only available from china vendors. And I'm not sure it has much of a track record yet.

author: rocketeerbkw
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:24:42 am
content: I don't own one, but I just stumbled across a video while searching for reviews that might help? Ignore the audio and just look at the user interface at 1:43https://youtu.be/joQMwW1QHVE?si=RjLqfbsc0YfbYdaR&t=103.The "Storage" feature looks like it has a "Save" and "Load" tab, and the wave can be saved to internal storage as either a `*.bin` or `*.csv`. To me that sounds like if you save as a `*.bin` then maybe you can load it and get full "playback." Just a guess on my part though.edit: This is for a DHO804.

author: frank2644
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:25:21 pm
content: Quote from: rocketeerbkw on January 06, 2025, 12:24:42 amYes, logically you would think that having the ability to save bin and CSV files means there is a way to use them for something practical in the DHO800/900 world. Certainly they cannot be reloaded back into scope memory like you could with .wfm files in Rigol's previous generation of scopes. Maybe something exists that make such files readily useful, but I couldn't find it.To my old mindset, the ability to save and later reload a captured waveform is one of the basic reasons for a storage scope. IMHO, 2nd only to the ability to freeze the waveform on the screen. Although perhaps my need for this reload capability is raising my opinion of it's value. Obviously storage scopes offer lot's of other very valuable features.Thanks,Frank