Australia data encryption law - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 12:21:15 pm
content: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46463029

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 01:38:33 pm
content: A better name for it would be Data Decryption Law.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 01:43:04 pm
content: How can they enforce it? I can always install an app that offers encryption.Alexander.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 11:10:30 pm
content: Well, it's real now!https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/technology/australia-cellphone-encryption-security.htmlI don't know how the industry will respond. If I had to guess, the manufacturers would just quit selling in Australia. If people want an iPhone, they would have to buy it on some kind of gray market,The UK is trying the same thing but I haven't been following along.Furthermore, it doesn't address on-device encryption apps that are installed by the user. PGP comes to mind. So even if the phone is hacked, the data is still protected.Should be fun...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:05:33 am
content: Quote from: Bud on December 07, 2018, 01:38:33 pmYes. This is a nice example of Orwell's "doublethink".

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:23:00 am
content: It was flawed legislation to 'keep us safe over Christmas' rammed through our Parliament in a total farce on the last sitting day before Christmas.'THEY' promise to look at it when Parliament resumes in Februaryhttps://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/human-rights-watch-raises-concerns-about-australias-cybersecurity-and-surveillance-laws/news-story/99c2655639b22ee821b588e15881f6b3But don't hold your breath its an Election year

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:33:22 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 22, 2019, 11:10:30 pmI'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. You can't build a castle on sand.The integrity of each layer in a system depends on everything below it. Once the root of trust is compromised (by x86 AMT, etc) it's game over.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:13:30 am
content: India too. I have some thoughts on the reasons for all this. You can probably guess what they are.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 02:36:51 am
content: You can't escape the matrix.Of course, it's all for your own good.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:17:31 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 23, 2019, 01:46:19 amBe a feeble little pawn, you mean.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:51:30 am
content: Right. I forget you don't have morals or feelings of your own, only a need for success.Ahh, china..

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 04:01:28 am
content: If we can't have end to end encryption, e-commerce is right out the window.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 04:01:39 am
content: The Fact China is a police state sure as hell doesn't mean I want to live in one here. China has the balance WRONG as it 'assumes' there is wrong doing and the government has the right to investigate ALL regardless!Forced decryption with NO (currently) judicial or any proper oversight is so far away from where this legislation NEEDS to be and in the year of kissing babies and smokescreens to hide other failures we will be likely stuck with this garbage act for a fair while to come. Neither side will want to appear 'weak' and reduce apparent security measures lest they be labeled as such by the other side.Welcome to the Australian political farce adding to the Year of Trump and Brexit

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 04:12:31 am
content: CAs are a central point of failure and politically open to manipulation. I'd honestly be quite surprised if those weren't comprised in some way. What most governments are after now is local and end-to-end encryption without some central controlling part, for what seem to be obvious reasons. If you can't control it, you don't want it. At least that's how the powers that be look at it. Apparently centuries of civilisation without that amount of control was a mistake. Governments need to know every last secret, for your own protection.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 04:37:12 am
content: This is not a free speech issue so don't introduce that as some sort of defense. This is an Australian issue at present and has nothing 'directly' to do with the USA.Government forced release of encrypted data with no oversight is gross overreach and undermines this countries ability to do Business in a global market. It allows in a cynical case our Government to force the release of commercial in confidence data being transferred in relation to trade or contract negotiations with no oversight be that government to government or company to government.The security and terrorism excuse is a minuscule fraction of what this bullshit can do in it's current form.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 04:38:24 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 23, 2019, 04:17:57 amAnd right there you've crossed over a line you can't uncross. Congratulations, and kindly fuck off.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 05:20:30 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on January 23, 2019, 04:38:24 amIt's the party tune. Not very original, but hardly a surprise.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:01:49 am
content: When you enter the UK there are signs letting you know you are under the obligation to reveal passwords to any computer or other device and refusal will land you in jail. It's known as"Rubber-Hose Cryptanalysis".The notion that morality has anything to do with governments is laughable. Morality is just whatever rules allow us to do what we want to do and prevent others from doing what they want to do. If we want to do it then it is moral and we will twist our "reasoning" so we can arrive at the foreordained conclusion.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:54:21 am
content: Every crime statistic I've seen in years indicates that crime in most places is falling.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:39:38 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 24, 2019, 12:54:21 amIt is. The world is safer than ever in pretty much every relevant aspect and metric. However, the increased availability of news gives the horrors of the world much more exposure. It seems this is exacerbated by people who utilize this to gain support for their political agenda. Fear is a powerful motivator.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:46:47 am
content: Yep the news cycle is NOW and by anyone with a smart phone is a reporter (unless blocked or suppressed by the government of that country).Seems India thinks our Farce is on a winner toohttp://www.mydigitalfc.com/fc-weekend/privacy-vs-snooping

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 03:10:31 am
content: Censorship is more extensive on the Internet now than it ever was. There is a growing amount ofmilieu control.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 03:19:01 am
content: I just finished reading "Darkness at Noon" by Arthur Koestler. Its a gripping book.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 06:22:14 am
content: I don't mind logging them in and being present during the "search" to prove I am innocent (if it doesn't contain personal stuff not belonging to me) but I wouldn't want to give out passwords to use behind my back especially when not present as it defeats the whole purpose of what they're for.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 08:34:00 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 23, 2019, 04:04:22 amAny other Chinese people follow this type of sellout SELFISH BS that borders on fifth column/treason activity??If you do, it can get ugly in Australia once the friendly non racist locals wise up and decide to look after numero unojust sayin...

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 09:44:20 am
content: Probably stop buying product dumps from China and get it from another country/nation that's less brainwashed and racist.If we all had and or clung to that attitude that you sport, life would soon turn to sh!t for everyone everywhere.Tell your controllers to go F themselves and move on to a better life mateWithout people like you supporting them, they can hit the streets and beg for food,as non working class and shifty scammers eventually resort to.They are just using you by making you feel important, superior and convincing you that's how life worksBeen there, that's how their bank accounts and pockets 'work',while they throw you a back pat and boneand or discard you when a younger aggressive new blood comes crawling in to fill your shoesyou get shown the NLR door, and the silly cycle repeats...

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:16:56 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 24, 2019, 09:12:13 amAll this is conspiracy nonsense but I specially want to point out that China is part of theCommon Reporting Standardand does share bank accounts information with all other countries part of that system which includes all developed countries.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:57:03 pm
content: This sets a scary precedent. I know the states have been wanting to do this for a while now. I'm sure all the 5 eyes would be in for it too. Guessing they would only allow corporations and government to use it and not the average person. Wonder what that would mean for HTTPS, would it be illegal to host a site using HTTPS unless you have a special license? I could see them do that.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 06:09:43 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on January 25, 2019, 05:57:03 pmThe speculation is that this gives the other five eyes access too. Remember that they exchange information and most western companies have a presence in Australia.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 10:35:18 pm
content: QuoteDidn't the NSA try that years ago:https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/21/nsa-technique-for-cisco-spying/and they were were suspected of meddling with Cisco routers:https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cisco-help-customers-avoid-nsa-interception-by-shipping-equipment-empty-houses-1492704

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:12:34 pm
content: I am sure the NSA and our ASIO/DSD have already been doing it by stealth for years along with a lot of other private companies and governments. Keep China out of this topic too if possibleIt is the 'forced' and 'mandatory' nature of this legislation that is worrying in particular if it remains with no limited or zero oversight provisions. When the decryption is known by Australia you can be assured it will be known by others too. The arguments of some 'if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't have a problem with ...' are deluded fools as their privacy is eroded.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 01:16:23 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 23, 2019, 04:06:04 amThat is probably true and if true certainly bad, but the real threat is cyber-crime which is already an order of magnitude more significant than the totality of street crime reported on the news everyday and estimate are that it will reach $6T by 2021 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2017/07/13/the-true-cost-of-cybercrime-for-businesses/#22a95d9c4947).Now, I'm not sure if I buy the $6T number but surely reducing security will only make cyber crime easier and more prevalent.Brian

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 03:36:18 am
content: Quote from: soldar on January 23, 2019, 09:01:49 amMoral rules is not whatever rules are convenient for the moment. Morals are rules that are completely necessary for a functioning society/groups, they have been sharpened by evolution over millennia. There are lots of experiments that show that other social animals also have a concept of morals and they are often similar to our own. If people cooperate everyone benefits, if people act like sociopaths every one looses, so we reward social behaviour and sanction antisocial behaviour, it's something completely rational and necessary. That said, some people clearly have a twisted idea of what is moral and not so it's up to debate what can be considered moral.What you describe is a form of psychological defence mechanism called rationalising: "when the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by concealing the true motivations for his or her own thoughts, actions, or feelings through the elaboration of reassuring or self serving but incorrect explanations".

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:18:42 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 26, 2019, 05:02:31 amLaws make up a system that regulates and ensures that individuals or a community adhere to the will of the state.If the state wants a well functioning society with people who are happy and cooperate then the laws should reward social behaviour and sanction antisocial behaviour. But there is nothing that says that laws have to do that, nor are they limited to encourage people to behave morally. So laws are not the same as morals at all, but there is often a relation, since you can't have to much antisocial behaviour or society would collapse.Quote from: blueskull on January 26, 2019, 05:02:31 amThere are those who act antisocially and some get away with it. Ideally you would want to catch and sanction everyone that acts immorally. But the justice system is far from perfect, 'innocent until proven guilty' is a good principle that prevents people from being sanctioned incorrectly, since that is considered more harmful to society than the alternative. But remember: the law isn't the same as morals, so it could also be the law that is wrong or the state that is acting immorally. As everyone knows, there are many states where the people in power only care about enriching themselves. You really need checks and balances that ensure the people with power aren't acting immorally themselves, or else you have a recipe for disaster.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:40:53 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 26, 2019, 05:02:31 amYou are continuing to be WAY OFF TOPIC and your propping up of Chinese goverment dogma and propaganda is more than annoying! I have kept this 'polite' but if you want to continue it won't remain that way. Got collect your $0.50 on youtube

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 08:14:20 am
content: @ Blueskull kindly delete your last posts and !@#$ OFF this thread!Signed the other 99% of us.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:17:52 am
content: At least blueskull is straight up, be he/she wrong, right, manipulated, confused, whatever the deal isunlike a LOT of two faced 'troll callers' that are not short of hypocricy/hypocracy/hippocracy

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:25:12 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on January 26, 2019, 09:17:52 amHis Very first post in this thread days ago was all about what CHINA does to enforce it's police state.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/australia-data-encryption-law/msg2141260/#msg2141260HE HAS BEEN OFF TOPIC EVER SINCE!Quote from: blueskull on January 26, 2019, 08:24:04 amAn Australian you tosser and this flawed legislation effects MY COUNTRY and has nothing to do with yours and your twisted morals!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:35:22 am
content: China produces the phones that these data encryption laws will be implemented on.blueskull is politely telling us to smell the coffee

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:43:50 am
content: This is far more than just phones as you are I am sure well aware of. More chance of the Chinese Government hacking us illegally to protect their own 'state security' than any information we are likely to get off decrypted phones of Chinese origin even if those companies will hand over that data.Blueskull has yet again twisted a thread as some sort of perverse defense of the Chinese State Machine which this thread is not about.So politely or not he can take a running jump.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:57:17 am
content: blueskull is collateral damage for westerner investor scum taking their/our industries over there,and making those countries work for stale rice pay, for a better 'future' in a 'competitive' global market >Hang it on the local bean counters that created and manipulate the mess, not blueskull and agro peers gabbing away nasty on the internet

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:15:00 pm
content: I don't think (hope) you understand what is meant by social Darwinism.It got to be the dumbest of all the dumb ideas from the 19th century.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:55:20 pm
content: I have no idea what is meant by PUBG?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 10:13:12 pm
content: Quote from: apis on January 26, 2019, 09:55:20 pmHe means a game where lots and lots of people work very hard to enjoy themselves and a precious few cunts destroy for everyone it by blatantly cheating.China, in other words - figuratively and literally.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 11:10:25 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 26, 2019, 10:26:15 pmYou'd think the concept of cooperation would be more ingrained in someone coming from a country with close to 1.5 billion people. Even before we migrated from the plains of Africa, cooperation has been what made our species tick and successful. That's unlikely to change any time soon.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 12:31:30 am
content: Hard to say. I think one of the things people are realizing now is an awful lot like the opposite of that, that life isnota zero sum game.Have you ever heard of the "Overton Window" ? Right wingers are trying to shift people's idea of what is okay to the right. By sleazy methods. We shouldn't fall for it.What do I mean? let me give you an example, a few years ago I waspointed to this interesting articlewhich was at the time popular with people in the advertising and PR industry, I was told, to read it if I wanted to know how they thought. Evidently they think we are a lot like cockroaches in some respects. (I disagree with this, but it does explain the social network bot phenomenon)Anyway, I think that now since jobs are becoming scarcer, I think that engaging in a race to the bottom is a mistake. I know that goes against established dogma, but we have to think of karma, rather than dogma.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 01:54:46 am
content: I'm proper confused by this thread! Reads like something the KKK would put together but against Chinese people. Kinda like: Blueskull has got a foreign-looking flag set as his country, let's have him!Quote from: Electro Detective on January 24, 2019, 08:34:00 amEr, yeah, I'm 100% British and I agree with the guy, don't know the guy, but he's speaking sense. Dafuq is your problem?Quote from: beanflying on January 26, 2019, 08:14:20 amHow about you go and play with traffic you bellend? You been reading up on those radical papers again?When did the Strayans become so pro Trump?I really can't believe how fast this escalated!

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:02:12 am
content: Regarding the original subject, rather than a load of verging on Nazi bollocks, it's really scary. It's the start of what is to come, I fear. Over here in the EU (which we are still a part of), the Article 13 nightmare looms over us, which is somewhat related in the sense that lawmakers/politicians coming up with these amazing ideas have got no idea what they're talking about. Not good.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:08:09 am
content: We can't hug our children with nuclear arms. Corny, I know. But true.It takes children to raze a village. So let's grow up.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:22:06 am
content: Quote from: mc172 on January 27, 2019, 01:54:46 amWhat radical papers? About as radical as I get is watching mainstream news on TV and generally our ABC or SBS as they have the least bias.As this is your first post in this thread is to name call me then you can go place your own ballend where it fits and I am sure it would only need a very tiny space! I am actually far more offended by you calling me Pro Trumpis that going to be the new insult for 2019?If you bothered to read what has been said by BlueSkull in its entirety here and the pro chinese ideals and propaganda he keeps spouting you might have half a clue as to why I am pissed off. We are NOT china and we DONT want to become like China and accept the governments will OR ELSE!This piece of bullshit flawed legislation puts us closer to a police state with no oversight and having anyone try and say it's ok regardless of flag is seriously out of order as it 'currently' doesn't effect them but it likely will is we allow it to stand in it's current form. India is heading that way China is a lost cause and if it sticks here the UK, USA and anyone else we have ties with is getting it too. Without oversight provisions (minimum) and major rewording it is bordering on unlawful if it were pushed to the high court.To say it is ok because in my country because it 'protects' everyone by allowing spying on all is absolute bullshit and has NO place in a western democracy it is only allowed in totalitarian regimes because if you speak up about it you 'disappear'.So much of the content of this thread is OFF TOPIC.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:43:52 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on January 27, 2019, 02:22:06 amYou're beyond help mate.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:46:08 am
content: Which if you even tried to read or understand what this legislation DOESN'T have is just that it has NO limits or oversight other than by the government. And our Government elected by the people and damm well should govern for the people which is clearly isn't in this case.https://www.cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/controversial-encryption-laws-in-australia-could-set-dangerous-worldwide-precedent/

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:48:09 am
content: Quote from: mc172 on January 27, 2019, 02:43:52 amCalling me mate after calling me a ballend would get you a punch in the nose in this countryFeel free to continue the insults I am more than up to trolls with nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:51:00 am
content: I'd really like for this topic to get back on track - and stay civil. Unfortunately, it is inescapably tied to politics, which does not bode well.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:42:04 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 23, 2019, 01:46:19 amPlease let me know how this statement doesn't conflict with what I think you are meaning here in this statement?Quote from: blueskull on January 27, 2019, 02:50:52 amOne one hand you say it is done for the people and it should be accepted without question at peril to the citizens and then you are now saying for 'one' person to stand up for the majority?and then this?Quote from: blueskull on January 27, 2019, 02:31:29 amI am not sure what you really think or if you in fact know? You seem to say one should stand up but not stand up in case you get into trouble? Then the last quote of yours you say the people should have a say in what the government does and acts most certainly not how China works so what do you actually believe in Freedom or Totalitarianism or just simply shut up and take what the State says is correct?Government cloak and dagger is a fact of life in all countries and in this current time those of us in Western Democracies for their failings can stand up and say NO without being put in jail and generally whistle blowers get heard at a minimum. This legislation turning us toward the Chinese style on internet surveillance is out of order and allows our Federal Government to do what it likes 'legally' (questionable) to surveil anyone it wants to in the electronic sense without any oversight.This is 'Democracy in Crisis' and it is a problem if it is allowed to stand.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:50:58 am
content: According to theGlobalization Trilemma"democracy, national sovereignty and global economic integration are mutually incompatible: we can combine any two of the three, but never have all three simultaneously and in full."This is not disputed, everybody seems to agree its true. Even the Davos folk write about it on their web site.So it seems we got hyperglobalization and lost the democracy, somewhere along the road, was it taken? I don't remember ever voting for this hyperglobalization thing. Did any of you?So we ALL have this problem, lack of legitimacy of the things that are being done. Seems to me it is, anyway.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:45:50 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 27, 2019, 04:50:58 amMaybe people didn't vote for globalisation but people certainly have been voting for the politicians promoting it, it wasn't called hyperglobalisation and it wasn't mentioned much so maybe they just didn't understand what was going on. But it's not like it's been a big secret either. A lot of political issues never gets mentioned in the media but they still get debated in the parliaments and different political parties have different opinions about them. People have been voting for big business interests for a long time, and globalisation has been a long time goal for multinational corporations since it's more profitable for them. Like free trade agreement and the Investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms, there are politicians that oppose it but it's generally not the ones the majority votes for.