CIF FT03 Lamps / Zallus Temp controller - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hobbyelectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 10:03:54 am
content: Hello,I have an old CIF FT03 small batch oven and I need to replace the two 1KW Quartz tubes.These are listed on the CIF Site for 65 Euro each (Plus carriage) to the UK.Does anyone know the exact spec of these tubes or better still, a direct replacement tube of the same spec maybe by Osram or another decent make?I was told that this oven used to work, but now I have tested it and both tubes are blown. But I don't know if only the tubes need replacing, so at this stage did not want to spend 130+ Euros if the oven itself is no good.Also, on a different subject, I was thinking about replacing the controller with something more suitable and with USB/PC control or monitoring (Data logging/fine tuning the temp profile etc).I came across this controllerhttp://www.zallus.com/controller/Has anyone on here used or seen this before. Does not seem like they are available but thought this may be a good solution, if I could get one with the software.Any other thoughts on this subject or the FT03 would be good hear.Cheers

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 10:35:55 am
content: You can use usual halogen heat lamps of appropriate size. 1300W will be the easiest to get. Based on my experience with FT02, ruby or gold lamps will work better as PCB color will have barely any effect on heating unlike with original clear lamps. And somehow heating uniformity will somewhat improve too (still unacceptable). However I doubt it's a good idea investing anything into controller to improve that CIF garbage, the best you can do is sell it and buy something more reasonably made.If I remember the length correctly, this will workhttps://undercontrol.co.uk/infrared-lamps/ruby-infrared-lamps/ruby-infrared-lamp-1000w-230v-254mm-r7s-ends-7960136/https://undercontrol.co.uk/infrared-lamps/ruby-infrared-lamps/ruby-infrared-lamp-1200w-230v-254mm-r7s-ends/Also there are plenty of lamps on ebay, aliexpress, RS and many other places. Chose an option depending on how much you wish to pay.

author: hobbyelectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 11:23:54 am
content: Hi,Thank you for your reply.Its only for hobby and prototype use, but as it was going for a song, decided to have go at improving it.I have read many posts about the CIF FT02, which of course is a different oven to the FT03.I have stripped it down and it seems like new inside.So, in your opinion what lets this little oven down. Is it the control side or the mechanics/layout etc.I fully understand that something like this is never going to be as good a prodcution unit, but I just wanted something for small batch runs of small boards, giving acceptable results.I used to have a 'proper' 6 Zone belt reflow oven (Unifab Quantum 30 I think it was) but sold it as it was massive, but that worked really well with top and bottom IR Ceramic heaters. Never had an issue with it.I also thought about having a go at developing a small batch Vapour phase oven from scratch. I have a number of decent parts (Small stainless bath etc) but that's ongoingMaybe I will buy a couple of the 1KW tubes you linked to just to test it and see what sort of result I get.I use a really cheap vapour phase 'hobby' style oven in work for prototyping which really produces excellent results every time without fail. Its really works well, for boards up to around 120 x 200. Never had any problems.Thanks again for your reply.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 11:46:56 am
content: Quote from: hobbyelectronics on August 19, 2023, 11:23:54 amI'm talking based on FT02 but FT03 looks very similarly constructed. The problem is that CIF engineers don't know one's ass from a hole in the ground. It's not like they cheaped out on materials, it's made much more expensive than should be. However due to lack of proper engineering, it sucks in many ways. Due to lamp placement directly above PCB and there being only 2 of them, temperature uniformity is very poor. If they used say 4x 500W it would passable I guess. Controller menu is barely useable, not following proper heating curve, just reaching set temp and wait until set time, then go to the next temperature. The problem with that is depending on for how long oven was preheated, if it run a reflow cycle recently and PCB put inside, the heating speed and time PCB stays at that temperature will be vastly different. Thermocouple is not placed well either. Enclosure is made out of a thick metal for no good reason, it's just heavy. However the tray where PCB lays is flimsy. They put a fan on the bottom, however with larger PCB put inside it has barely any effect. Also judging by FT02 controller with almost no insulation from mains voltage, they never did actual safety certification and just slapped CE mark. Their response of milling a partial depth slot on one side was a joke too since it did not fix the issue on other side. You needed to pay for shipping both ways and time frame for replacement program was extremely short, not to say they did not actually fix the safety issue to begin with. My impression of this company is an utter lack of competency, a team of clowns.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 01:27:50 pm
content: I have had a CIF FT2 oven and I have indeed also used the mentioned Zallus controller.I can only agree with Wraper, the original CIF controller is virtually unusable. I removed it and used SSD for the control, which was then connected to the Zallus controller. The Zallus controller worked perfectly. So I can only praise it!Regarding the oven: it is quite usable (with the Zallus controller), but I had to change two more things to get it to a satisfactory condition:a) I replaced the 2x 1000W lamps with 2x 1500W lamps. These are simple standard halogen lamps R7s 254mm (if I remember correctly). Like this:https://www.ebay.de/itm/154460556052b) The lamps are too close to the circuit board - so there are heat spots. I then shielded the lamps downwards with a small stainless steel screen about 3cm wide, so that there was no direct radiation downwards any more.So the stove was then well usable. I think the CIF FT03 will have a similar design and benefit from this as well.Edit: I added zwo pictures of the Zallus controller and one picture of the stainless steel shields added (see the yellow frames I drew) to give you and idea.

author: hobbyelectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 08:06:42 pm
content: Hi,Yes the Zallus controller seems to have good reviews.Unfortunately, I don't think these are available anymore.The FT03 has two tubes as you say but they are shielded just like you mentioned and are also on the left and right side so not directly above the board.Just out of interested I have added a couple of pics.I reckon that maybe the Zallus controller may also be good for a home brew vapour phase oven as well.I did think about using a 'normal' digital PID controller and separate timer module and then write a program for windows to simply send the commands to each controller and also to plot the temp in real time as well.Just a thought really. Something like these:https://undercontrol.co.uk/temperature-controllers/pid-control/Will see if I can get get a Zallus controller from somewhere and upgrade the tubes to 1.5KW maybe as well.Its all just an experiment but would be nice to get something actually reflow boards ok.Thanks

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2023, 08:22:03 pm
content: It's good they added shielding for uniformity, I made covers out of thick aluminum foil in the middle of lamps to make it somewhat bearable. Also it should be increasing the temperature lamps run at thus shortening their life. However it's still exactly the same poor FT02 oven design. I'm pretty sure is uses uses mostly the same parts as FT02 except outer enclosure. So while it's better, it's kind of a workaround and it's still really poor for the kind of price this oven sells for.

author: hobbyelectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 04:18:27 pm
content: Just a quick update and recommendation.After looking around I found that Unexpected Maker in Australia have developed an excellent reflow controller called the Reflow Master Pro.I received this from Australia to the UK in 4 days from posting - wow!Seon from Unexpected Maker was very helpful and and always answered my emails and questions very quickly - (Thanks Seon)I have to say that this little classic / PID reflow controller is superb. Its very easy to use and setup with WiFi enabled configuration pages from a browser for general settings and profile settings.It also has a number of useful settings to configure this to your project along with Bake and reflow profiles.It has a colour display to show the temp graph in real time overlaid onto the required temperature profile and from the tests a have done this device is a 'Little Jem'.Have a look here for full details or checkout the "unexpected Maker" for other modules that he manufactures and sells.https://reflowmasterpro.comand here:https://unexpectedmaker.comAnyway, next it to fit this to my CIF FT03 oven and see how it performs.I don't hold out much hope as it would seem that the oven itself is not a good design, from what I have read anyway.But this controller might turn it into something useful.I also may use this controller as the basis for a vapour phase oven build but I need to by some Galden LS-230 first and do a few experiments.Will update this post in due course just in case anyone may be interested.Cheers

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 06:34:44 pm
content: Quote from: hobbyelectronics on September 16, 2023, 04:18:27 pmJust so you know, PID control does not really work for vapor phase. To successfully make proper-ish temperature profile you need to cut off heating way before temperature in PCB area is even close to reaching final temperature. It's more like adhering to pre-tuned power profile with some timing adjustment according to temperature sensor(s).

author: hobbyelectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 08:17:43 pm
content: Hi,Thanks for your reply.Yes, I understand that. This controller also has a classic, non PID mode, where you can turn off PID control.As you can adjust the stages for a specific time and temp it would be good as a basic temp controller for initial experiments.Longer term I think a different approach would be more suitable.With plenty of of discussions on here about vapour phase it would be really good to do some experiments.Maybe I will build my own custom controller once I get a better understanding of the process.I do use a budget vapour phase oven in work for prototyping and proof of concept so have a basic understanding of the process but I need to do a lot more research.Too many projects on the go and not enough time.Cheers