New Siglent SDM4000A series Multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: oewean
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2024, 11:37:16 pm
content: Siglent is releasing SDM4000A series multimeter in China.6½ digit reading resolution (2,200,000 counts)Maximum reading rate 50k rdgs/s, minimum sampling interval 20μsDCV basic accuracy 35PPMTrue RMS AC voltage and AC current measurementsRecorder function and digitizer function5-inch touch screen, resolution 800*480https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm4000a/

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2024, 11:47:49 pm
content: Appx 1200€ for the non scannercard version, will make appx 1400 "here".Interesting..

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 11:56:48 am
content: If I'm not mistaken, the SDM3065X is cheaper in Europe than in China. ¿Something to do with the price of american TE in China?It's just a guess, but maybe the 346xA series from Keysight and the 6500 from Keithley are much more expensive/not sold in China, and as such Siglent has not strong competition.I'd be surprised if someone is willing to buy the Siglent for €100 less than the DMM6500 TBH, which costs €1300-1500.EDIT: Maybe for audio? It could work as a really high resolution scope up to (maybe) 25KHz. It has higher sampling rate than most audio interfaces.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 02:13:51 pm
content: yep seems a Keithley DMM6500 clone at cheaper pricing .... scan card pricing is it the same card as the other siglent who have scan card options ?we need a teardown, i want to know witch reference they usebut i hate the black trend ...

author: Detlev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 02:22:11 pm
content: The DMM6500 is currently sold for around €1450, the Siglent SDM4000 must be significantly lower. Especially since the long-term stability seems to be a little worse.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 04:07:16 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on January 11, 2024, 02:13:51 pmIt's not really at the level of the DMM6500, 50 KS/s is the sampling rate of the KS 34465a in digitizing mode. The DMM6500 has 1MS/s, 20 times higher.The price is quite a bit lower than the KS, though. It would be interesting to see whether it is as programmable as the DMM6500. I guess they are trying to enter A brand pricing and margins territory. Too expensive even for "A-" tier IMO.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 05:13:51 pm
content: If this new Siglent SDM4000A DMM is even close to the price of the DMM6500, why would anyone consider it over the Keithley?The DMMs at this level are intended for accurate, repeatable, precise measurements and the Keithley DMM6500 and Keysight 34461-5A have demonstrated such over many years/decades of doing exactly this, these are the "Benchmark" DMMs in this territory, and relatively new unknown for Siglent.Unless the SDM4000A becomes available at significantly lower cost, can't see knowledgable folks selecting it over the DMM6500.Don't misunderstand, we aren't a Siglent basher, nor fanboy either, and have a significant repertoire of Siglent gear, including the SDM3065X which is a nice DMM, but doesn't compare with the DMM6500 nor KSs either, however is lower cost!!Best,

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 05:22:41 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on January 11, 2024, 05:13:51 pmSiglent pricing is a strange thing, taken at first glance. The SDM is quite a bit cheaper in the western markets than in China. The SDS2000X-Plus is also a bit cheaper.The 2000X-HD is much more expensive though. There, in China, the plus and the HD are quite close in terms of price.I don't think it will cost as much here. Around 1.000 plus VAT is my guess, if it does come to US and EU. More than that will not sell much, if at all.For hobbyists the DMM6500 has the old Keythley scanner cards going around for not too much money. We'll see.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 07:56:04 pm
content: The Sigilent meters seems to have a 20 V high impedance range, which can make a difference for a few users.It is also a bit unclear how good the meters is at higher sampling rates - the Keithley6500 is fast with the separate fast ADC, but AFAIK the front end is limited in the bandwidth, especially in some ranges.50 kSPS only make really sense if the front end is also fast enough.For the scanner part it would really be good if this would be a user option, but I am afraid there is the problem that already the connector for the scanner card would limit the maximum voltage.The picture of the scan card on the web page still looks like the old one.It is a bit early to say how much different the meter actually is from the old SDM3000 series. It could be as little as a new digital/display part and still the old analog side.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 08:01:19 pm
content: Exactly.It might be closer to the SDM3065X or closer to the vaunted keithley/keysight models.We'll have to wait for a review...

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 08:20:26 pm
content: yeah could be some rev 2 of the actual model with cosmetic changes, UI changes ?until we get internal views, we speculate ...

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 09:06:47 pm
content: Translations of the QuickStart and Datasheet

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2024, 09:34:04 pm
content: From the datasheet, it's looks identical except for a few key upgrades and a touchscreen.

author: bateau020
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2024, 07:57:34 am
content: Just found out about that meter. So they went from copying the keysight UI to copying the keithley UI. Let's just hope it is more intuitive than the DMM6500. I like that meter for the better digitising and graphing possibilities (compared to the KS34465A), but boy do I waste time in configuring it.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2024, 09:51:27 am
content: Quote from: bateau020 on March 30, 2024, 07:57:34 amA benchtop DMM need anyway some time to reach thermal stability. In the meantime you have plenity to configure.If you are refering to triggers, scanner, or other extended functions yes you need more time but this is a lab grade instrument not a pocket multimeter that you use to measure something faster.Also this advanced functions can be scripted as application that can be stored on the scope an start when need them.Keithley does not offer free software application as Siglent do (and Keysight with some limits). I found Siglent Easy DMM quite nice and useful.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 08:46:39 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on January 11, 2024, 09:34:04 pmWhat I've only just noticed is that the model designation has an "A" at the end.X are always cost-effective devices, A are the Pro lines.So I wonder what the significant difference is between the SDM3065X and this one, that it became a Pro model?Possibly the use of pre-aged references this time?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 08:59:17 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 17, 2024, 08:46:39 pmFrom website:Larger 5" touch display.2 GB flashWebserverStudy of the datasheet vs SDM3065X is required for accuracy spec and drift for clues on ref stability.It's a few months away......

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 09:25:27 pm
content: QuoteThat may be a reason for others, but not for me.For me, this would be more of a "pro":QuoteThis is because the models from Keithley and Keysight, which are often quoted, basically have no better basic accuracy than the SDM3065X.But less drift and correspondingly better stability.I'm curious to see if I can hold back when the meter appears on our market.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 01:54:50 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 17, 2024, 09:25:27 pm🤣🤣🤣

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 08:51:14 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 17, 2024, 09:25:27 pmI have something for you that can be useful in the meantime...

author: rizek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 09:17:41 pm
content: Hello all,Any idea when this will be available in EU?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 10:17:20 pm
content: The "A" in the model name identifies Siglent's Pro series, as does the price.This clearly competes with top dogs such as Keysight or Keithley.You have to be careful not to throw it onto the rest of the market too early, not before the first teething troubles have been ironed out, because otherwise you run the risk of being considered a "burnt brand" in terms of Pro meters among the relevant customers.In this respect, it is only to be welcomed if Siglent takes its time.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 10:29:23 pm
content: Quote from: rizek on August 09, 2024, 09:17:41 pmQ4 IIRC.Will hopefully get a little time with one next week while visiting Siglent HQ.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 10:39:41 pm
content: The only feature that will really set it apart would be instant continuity. I went looking through a whole bunch of bench DMMs and most of them (actually, all but the cheapest ones) just suck at doing something simple like instant continuity.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:26:24 pm
content: Oh Nico, for me that would be the last thing a precision measuring device should be able to do.There are cheap alternatives for that.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:50:07 pm
content: Continuity is great on the 3000X models. I don't think they'd make it worse for a 4000A model. 🤷

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 10:24:44 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 09, 2024, 11:50:07 pmNo it isn't. It is way too slow for me.Quote from: Martin72 on August 09, 2024, 11:26:24 pmBut then I'd need two devices on the bench for a function which both have. That makes no sense.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 10:36:43 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 09, 2024, 11:50:07 pmActually is slower than on Keysight 34465A and Keithley DMM6500. Keithley is quite fast visually but the sound is lagging behind. On Keysight is opposite.But for this task I'm always use a handheld DMM, not a bench one.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 11:15:34 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 09, 2024, 10:29:23 pmPlease share as much as you can. Not only about the multimeter but also about the Siglent HQ.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 02:31:11 pm
content: Continuity is basically instant for me. It works great, for me. I guess if you need it to tell the future, then that's another story. 🤣Then again, I use gold-plated ProbeMaster probes, and as our dear friend Dave pointed out, the probes make a huge difference with continuity speed.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 02:32:56 pm
content: Probemaster tips are the best I know so far and I know some of them by principle.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 02:45:39 pm
content: I made a quick/lazy demo:There's a small fraction of a second between the sound of the tips clicking together, and the beep from the DMMs. It's barely perceivable.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 02:46:54 pm
content: That delay is long enough for me to get bored / annoyed. Seriously.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 02:50:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 10, 2024, 02:46:54 pmShow us your faster continuity tester!

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 04:13:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 10, 2024, 02:46:54 pmExactly. This is slow.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 04:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on August 10, 2024, 04:13:16 pmQuote from: KungFuJosh on August 10, 2024, 02:50:20 pmI see talk, but no proof. 😉😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 05:11:50 pm
content: You don't know anything either, do you?It has to beep before you touch it, otherwise it's no good.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 05:15:45 pm
content: Continuity speed/performance is not subjective but entirely quantifiable with just a AWG.SDM3000 range tests from a little over a year ago and methodology thanks to Joe Smith:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg4840136/#msg4840136Discussion is not required but real repeatable data is......

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 05:48:28 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 10, 2024, 05:11:50 pmHey, I already mentioned continuity testers that can tell the future! 🤣

author: bateau020
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 05:59:36 pm
content: So to give some numbers about continuity beep minimum contact period of some of my meters:(hand) Fluke 179: 0.2ms(bench) Keithley DMM6500: 3ms(hand) Uni-T UT123T: 13ms(hand) eevblog 121GW: 40ms(bench) Siglent SDM3055: 50ms(bench) Keysight 34465A: 400msSo, yes, handheld is normally faster, but there are exceptions.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 06:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 10, 2024, 02:50:20 pmYou can ofcourse try to make fun out of pure fanboyism but the way the continuity works on many bench DMMs is just too slow for what I use continuity for. Not only when measuring continuity between two points (for which I take 3 quick measurements). When doing reverse engineering I swipe a probe across a row of contacts quickly. That just won't work when there is a delay due to software defined continuity.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 06:10:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 10, 2024, 06:00:13 pmI'm not making fun at all! It's just funny to me when people say ~30ms is slow. I get that some handhelds are faster, but I've never found anything in the sub-50ms range to feel slow. But also, a lot of people say it's slow without specifying what they consider acceptable. More importantly, which device they currently use that is faster, and what that measured speed actually is.Quote from: bateau020 on August 10, 2024, 05:59:36 pmHow was that Fluke measured? That seems too amazing. 😉I want a DMM6500, but it's out of my budget. I'd buy two more SDM3065Xs before buying it considering that the SDM3055X-E is really better than what I generally need.

author: bateau020
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 06:18:33 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 10, 2024, 06:10:14 pmWith an AWG directly driving the input of the DMM. 1Hz cycle, 50 Ohm output impedance, H=5V, L=a couple of mV negative (as 0V was seen as over 10 Ohms). Yes, I should use a FET or so, but this was a quick set up, and easily tuned to the DMMs.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 06:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: bateau020 on August 10, 2024, 06:18:33 pmThat's cool. I should try that with my meters.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 06:15:30 pm
content: Some tests:AN80027.2ms(latching)AN80087.2ms(latching)BM869s0.2ms(not really audible under that)SDM3045 (3055X-E)50ms(misses very few beeps down to 40ms)34461A15ms(latching, sometimes beeps twice per pulse under 50ms or so)34401A9ms(latching) very few lost pulses down to 6msWH5000A3ms(latching)UT181A2ms(latching)MTX 328210ms, non latching, not really audible under 15ms.1Hz, levels adjusted to 2-10 Ohms depending on the DMM, varying pulse width. Tested for 10 seconds or so to check for lost pulses when approaching the limit of each one.Really, the Siglent is nothing special. You might argue it is good enough for your use case, but it is worse than almost any other DMM. I'd say the sample is a good mix, from bottom of the barrel to high-end.A bunch of edits. Formatting and typos.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 06:50:59 pm
content: Fascinating....How do you measure the time in ms in such a test?Do you have a trigger in your ear that triggers it?

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 11, 2024, 06:50:59 pmWhy would anyone need that? It's an audible cue. If it stops giving a beep each second, it's not giving a beep. It's not a precision measurement because it's not a precision function.The time in ms is given by the SDG1062X. When the pulse according to the AWG is too narrow for the meter to give an audible beep, I dial it to be wider, with ms resolution, unless lower than a millisecond.

author: Kawakneurder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:08:34 pm
content: Quote from: bateau020 on August 10, 2024, 05:59:36 pmQuote from: Antonio90 on August 11, 2024, 06:15:30 pmHow did these two meters get such vastly different readings? I would presume that (at least for continuity) they would share identical circuitry. Hell, considering the price difference you'd hope the 34465A would at least perform slightly better.Or is this perhaps because of the test method? i.e.:Quote from: skander36 on August 10, 2024, 10:36:43 amThat one measures the continuity to beep, and the other to display update rate?Quote from: Antonio90 on August 11, 2024, 06:15:30 pmQuote from: bateau020 on August 10, 2024, 06:18:33 pmBecause seeing these it seems you guys both use similar measurement methodologies.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:13:22 pm
content: @KwakneurderThere was a firmware update which improved it vastly.Continuity was completely unusable when I bought it, but it became decent after an update, can't remember which one.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: Antonio90 on August 11, 2024, 07:05:42 pmThat's only halve of the story, there still could be a noticeable delay/latency between when the continuity is detected until the beeper beeps.I'd rate that at least as important.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: Antonio90 on August 11, 2024, 07:05:42 pmIn that case you are not really measuring response time (time between detection and giving a beep) but the minimum detection time. While the minimum detection time is useful, it is only 1 part of the big picture. A better test would be to use a microphone and measure the time between the short and the tone being produced by the beeper.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:34:22 pm
content: Quote from: The Soulman on August 11, 2024, 07:29:55 pmThat is true. I can try and test that although I'm not sure how.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 07:41:20 pm
content: I think these tests are all useless unless they're conducted in an agreed upon and repeatable way. If variables aren't consistent, then comparison results are meaningless.How is the the AWG set? Share a screenshot.What is the threshold on the DMM?I can set my AWG Period to 1ms, 1Vrms, and raise the threshold on the SDM3045X to 1kΩ, and that gives a constant beep.For everything I tried, the main thing that stopped the SDM3045X from beeping faster is if the threshold is too low compared to the signal from the AWG.

author: bateau020
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 08:12:26 pm
content: About the KS34465A: mine is on the latest FW, and also by hand testing, it is unusably slow. Maybe I got a hidden (read: SCPI) setting wrong. Found nothing related on the KS itself: one can only set beep on/off, no thresholds, nothing. Maybe another owner can confirm?But hey, this topic is getting out of hand, it is supposed to be about the SDM4000A. And I'm partly guilty. This beep thing is more a subject for the DMM excel sheet.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 08:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: bateau020 on August 11, 2024, 08:12:26 pmMaybe we need a separate thread on this subject.About SDM4000 I think his meaning is to offer a a real challenge to the market players while SDM3065X make competition only by price.I hope we will see soon if 4000 will succeed.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 09, 2024, 10:29:23 pmAnd I did.Release is postponed a little and reasons for such will be obvious in time.Nice DMM it is and I spent some time investigating UI usage with Touch and front panel controls and made some suggestions for improvements that were readily accepted.Unfortunately with many new and new to me instruments to inspect, the chance to use for real measurements did not arise.However, as these are to use a color and touch display, would the ability to define a readout color benefit those users with color vision restraints/issues ?We discussed such and need feedback.....

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 09:27:31 am
content: Hmmm, that doesn't look so bad after all...

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 09:37:18 am
content: Indeed it looks good to me.Quote from: tautech on August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 amYou know the public of this forum: we like numbersQuote from: tautech on August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 amYou know the public of this forum: we like listsQuote from: tautech on August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 amI prefer possibility to use a mouse (attached to a rear USB port) to a touch display ... colors IMHO are always usefull (and I have color vision issues).Anyway thank you for the nice photo.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 09:55:01 am
content: Quote from: Furna on August 15, 2024, 09:37:18 amIt has rear USB A port and while I did not test, all the existing touch instruments support mouse usage so expect these SDM4000A to have this too as webserver capability is offered also.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 10:20:13 am
content: Why is showing such a high value on DC Volt auto scale? It was set on High impedance?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 10:31:55 am
content: i would love they get rid of the leading zeroes ..... on any ranges

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 01:14:45 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on August 15, 2024, 10:31:55 amSame ugly behavior as on SDM3065...so they can for shure tell it is a 6.5 digit gear O;)

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 02:07:30 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on August 15, 2024, 10:31:55 amYes, no leading zeros please. And make sure that number font is such, that digits positions do not change even by one pixel across ranges, +/- input (like on LCD segment display). Otherwise displayed numbers will be "jittery".Quote from: tautech on August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 amDifferent colors are useful. There are immediate applications - 1) better visibility due to customization, 2) different colors for current/voltage (user set, off course), 3) different colors when using multiple DMMs at once.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 02:14:36 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 amPlease, at least no dull yellow with bright green as in SDS800X-HD's traces. Just google "deuteranopy" and look at the images, you will understand our painThe leading zeros tell you the range and limitations of the measurement from a mile away. Won't bitch if they are removed, but they are uglyanduseful.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 02:39:16 pm
content: i've seen in some softwarethe leading digits before the decimal point / separator had some pale blue"ish" color, and after the dot = white ??the digits don't look like the most ugliest ones in the dm858 ... to mimic nixies grid tubes, man this sucks, give me one, i'll toss it right awaythis meter does look like an keithley DM7500 serie loll only miss the left right arrows buttons, and the front back switch

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 08:15:35 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 15, 2024, 08:48:58 amAny news regarding the release date in EU?Thank you.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 08:30:30 am
content: Quote from: Furna on September 24, 2024, 08:15:35 amA few months yet and reason for the delay will be apparent in time.Nice DMM.I played with one for maybe 30 minutes while at HQ a few weeks back and suggested a couple of minor improvements to the UI they could make.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 02:26:32 pm
content: Would be interesting to experience how well this new SDM4000 compares to our KS34465As and DMM6500, the SDM3065X we have is Ok but doesn't get used very often as we prefer the KS or DMM6500 for most use cases.Nothing generally "wrong" with the SDM3065X but it's compared to the KS and DMM which have decades of refinement and in actual use this shows!!Best,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 03:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on September 24, 2024, 02:26:32 pmI can say the UI is very different and will require some small learning curve for those used to the 3000 models.SDM4000A has physical, touch/mouse and webserver control, although I didn't get a chance to have it connected to a PC.I was mainly interested in UI usability using the touchorphysical controls in turn and mixing them up a little.It worked well and IMO just some minor tweaks were needed, mainly for better visibility/highlighting of user selections made.The option to change the readout digit color was also suggested but not sure if that might be implemented or not, I hope it does.....

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2024, 04:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 24, 2024, 03:26:16 pmWe never quite got used to the UI on the 3465X coming from the KS34465A and DMM6500, so maybe the 4000 will behave different/better in this respect. Touch Screen and Webserver should be welcome improvements IMO.Best,

author: InductorX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 04:20:10 pm
content: Hi everyone, new member, long time lurker. I was wondering if anyone has any more good resources on the Siglent SDM4065A/SDM4065A-SC? I have received information it should be available in Europe in the (early) second quarter, I'm in the market for a new DMM and might hold out for this one if it seems worth it.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2025, 05:22:31 pm
content: It does seem like a good meter. I have absolutely no need for another DMM, but I want one anyway. It will look pretty next to my Keithley/Keysight meters. 😉

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2025, 07:06:23 pm
content: Hello,was at EmbeddedWorld and got my hands onto it.Short but thorough video athttps://youtu.be/3N_oN7XVDCcTo be short: I like it. Handles well, the touchscreen is responsive, and there will be a scanner option also.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2025, 07:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on March 15, 2025, 07:06:23 pmIt's the same scanner card that the 3000 series uses.From your video, it's pretty clear Siglent bought a Keithley to study before designing this. Kinda like how they clearly had a Keysight for the 3000 series. 😉

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2025, 08:05:00 pm
content: Main thread for these models to be released before not too much longer:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-multimeter/

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2025, 11:28:39 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 15, 2025, 07:35:49 pmHi,this is interesting - sounds plausible. I am not too familiar with the Siglent family.As for the Keithley - definitely. But this is the name of the game...

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2025, 11:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 15, 2025, 08:05:00 pmOther thread completely went to sleep ;(

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2025, 11:44:34 pm
content: Well, wake him up if there's any news.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 12:10:11 am
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on March 15, 2025, 11:29:58 pmWhich is quite normal when the only units in the wild are with beta testers and they're bound to NDA's.

author: InductorX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 06:16:31 pm
content: Damn NDA’s, really curious how it will compare to my DMM6500, what’s better than 1 6.5 DMM? Should be available April probably, hopefully.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 07:11:41 pm
content: Requestedhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm4065a(-sc)/be merged into this thread.OP is agreeable.That was quick.Merge done, thanks Mods.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 04:02:36 am
content: HOT news!The 🔥NEW🔥 6.5 Digit DMM from Siglent, here on the desk for full review.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 05:19:26 am
content: The SDM4065A has been on my radar since last year ... anyone know if SMB client functionality is planned?

author: Eraldo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 09:55:11 am
content: All that is missing now is a teardown. Curious to see the improvements

author: pnuding
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 10:25:30 am
content: Also curious about fan noise and startup time.Really happy to see they implemented a fast continuity tester, silly as that may be. It's just nice not to have to switch to another device for that

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 10:50:09 am
content: Quote from: Eraldo on April 16, 2025, 09:55:11 amThis is a sealed demo Unit that needs to go back to Siglent,i was already very happy i could test is this soon,but i will request Siglent if i may open it and break the seals, maybe it can be done before it goes back, if allowed,

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 10:52:22 am
content: Quote from: pnuding on April 16, 2025, 10:25:30 amSart-up time is about the same as the SDM3065X maybe 1 second longer.fan noise is the same SDM3065X, so on the desk you hear it a bit, in the stack not over-noising the other equipment..

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 10:58:41 am
content: I did test the boot time , but it did not make it into the review video.SDM3065X-SC vs SDM4065A-SC

author: pnuding
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 12:52:29 pm
content: Not terrible, but of course the GDM-9061 in the back trolls the hell out of them 😀

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 01:44:38 pm
content: Nice video TonyAlso wish to see the internals, especially how they compare with the SDM3065X. Wonder if Siglent is using an "aged" LM399, or ADR1399, and how they solved the excessive long drift at startup issue?Best

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 02:32:23 pm
content: So, considering the, oh so sensible and reasonable, trade policies in the US of late, this will come in around $3000. I'm sure they will fly off the shelves!How much of the Keithley is made in China?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 03:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on April 16, 2025, 04:02:36 amNice video!One note: All of the Siglent 3000 series DMMs also have continuity threshold settings. Your Keithley DMM is even better and has both range and threshold settings for continuity. Separating the range and threshold is the best method because it gives the fastest response at any threshold level.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 03:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 16, 2025, 02:32:23 pmThe entire unit, packaging and manuals included.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 03:20:26 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 16, 2025, 03:12:57 pmWell, that puts future stock of the DMM6500 up to about $4,200. Makes the Siglent look like a bargain!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 05:58:51 pm
content: I'm a little surprised at how inexpensive the new series is; I wasn't expecting that.They are only slightly more expensive than the previous models, so one would actually expect a price reduction for the previous models.(Sources: Meilhaus.de /Batronix.de)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 07:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on April 16, 2025, 04:02:36 amHello!Nice video.Just please make sure to somehow note that it does have Digitizer function, like I posted in comment on YouTube.This is one function that is not available on older models.BestSiniša

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 08:23:08 pm
content: From the specs it is well possible that there is very little (if any) change to the analog board hardware. The main change is for the screen, case and UI and a little more memory. The ADC in the SDM3065 is already capable of providing the higher speed.The faster warm up phase hints on at least some change - could be as change in the air flow / case to avoid a hot spat or a changed part.For a relatively empty instrument with a fan it is unusual to take 3 or 4 hours for warm up.To a large part it is a question of taste if the old or new UI is more convenient. Not everybody likes the bluish color and touch screen.For the pricing the step from the normal to the scanner version got quite a bit smaller.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 08:36:21 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on April 16, 2025, 08:23:08 pmIn the short time I had to play with one last August at HQ, focus was using itwithoutany need of touch or mouse.Certainly 100% possible was my findings and asked for some minor improvements in improving highlighting of selections within the UI.The blue font does little for me and have also requested a user color palette .....isn't it a color LCD display ?I recommend all owners of these ask Siglent to provide at least a simple range of colors for the displayed digits.This may also be useful for those that have a rack of these meters for better measurement duty identification.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 08:47:49 pm
content: I am not a fun of touch screens ... but I like the mouse is available.Deep bench, tool well away from work area, test leads and mouse readily available.The big screen helps.Colors are for sure welcome.Quote from: tautech on April 16, 2025, 08:36:21 pmYeah .. first become a owner than ask

author: InductorX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 07:54:53 am
content: I placed my order, should be somewhere end of next week it arrives, maybe week after that latest. Let's see what it can do

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2025, 08:04:16 am
content: Siglent responded to my teardown request, and it is a NOThe demo could be slightly different inside, less well finished, because it is a early demo unitlater models build to go to customers will be better finished and they don't want to have wrong pictures going around.So we need to wait for someone to break it seal from a real sales channel unit.maybe i go for one myself

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2025, 10:25:39 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on April 16, 2025, 01:44:38 pmAre these “pre-aged” LM399s available for purchase from the manufacturer, and if so, with what suffix?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2025, 11:41:42 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on April 20, 2025, 10:25:39 pmDon't think so, recall HPAK did this themselves, probably Keithley and others also.Best,

author: Bad_Driver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2025, 09:52:50 am
content: When I got my SDM3065, I left it powered on for two or three weeks to allow some aging. I recently ran my 34401a, my Keithley 2000, and my SDM3065 for a few hours, and in the end, all three showed almost the same reading down to the last digit.However, I learned that cleaning the terminals with a cotton swab and isopropanol can improve accuracy by a few ppm.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2025, 10:06:41 am
content: The problem with the LM399 reference is the still noticable drift in the first 100 hours or so of operation. In the SDM3000/4000 it would be not just the reference but likely also the divider after the reference that can show some initial drift. So the logical way would be to give the complete meters a few days or a week of burn in before doing the final calibration before delivery.For the user the problem is that one kind of gets an extra 10-20 ppm of extra uncertainty for the initial calibration. This reduces the trust in the initial calibration and a typical later calibration without values would not help with this. So if one wants to imporve on this later one should consider loging the drift from the very start when you get the meter. Once used for some 10 hours or so it can already have drifted quite a bit.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2025, 02:40:24 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on April 21, 2025, 10:06:41 amOne issue with aging references is that it isn't just the aging that is important, characterization and culling of non-optimal specimens is also part of the process. You can't easily do the latter if they're already soldered to the board. I suppose this is one good reason to use sockets like some HP models.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2025, 04:19:02 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 21, 2025, 02:40:24 pmSeems like this might be a good opportunity for someone with small company to acquire, age and characterize these popular references.Best

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2025, 09:23:58 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on April 20, 2025, 11:41:42 pmThat would definitely explain why their 6.5 digit meters are still significantly more expensive.Given the surprisingly small price difference between the SDM4065 and the SDM3065, this will not be the case there, i.e., “normal” references will be used.I don't think it's such a big deal if you're aware that the meter can still drift in the early stages.I ran my SDM3065X continuously for over a month, then for 2 weeks, 2 hours on and 1 hour off.I think it has “stabilized,” but I'm not sure, because to know for sure, I would have to log it with a signal that drifts significantly less than the reference in the meter or the meter itself as a whole.My replica Elektor reference should have 10 ppm, which should be sufficient, but I am uncertain because I do not have a measuring device that can measure significantly below 10 ppm....wahhh...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 12:45:56 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on April 23, 2025, 09:23:58 pmyet 😉

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 07:10:05 am
content: Aging and selecting the refererences would add some costs, but it is not that bad.For the sigilent meters it is however not just the reference drift. With a SD ADC chips they also have a voltage divider to bring the 7 V to some 2.5 V to 5 V that the ADC can work with. That part and the ADC chip itself can also show initial drift. So for such a design it would be more a burn in for the complete meter.Another option could be to have the burn in at the customer and plan for an re-adjustment after 1 year or so.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:06:16 am
content: Hi, i received mine today SDM4065A ...After work i will make some pictures. (also inside)The question if the scannercard will fit or not in a normal version is simple. (NO)the bay is not there, so No... so GPIB clearly goes with that extra USB connection and not with that module as before.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:22:21 am
content: So you bought the non SC version ... the slot/bay is not even there.I really do not understand this choiceEDITI mean I do not understand Siglent choice

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:28:13 am
content: The question has been, can one use a ScannerCard in a non -SC version, because in the SDM3000 the slot was always there.Siglent always said No to this, because of missing wiring inside, but still many have questioned that, because of the slot.Now there is no confusion... not a bad choice at all from Siglent i think.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:35:49 am
content: I would have preferred to have the choice to buy the SC card as an add on in a second time in case the need arises.Missing wiring inside ... produce 2 board versions ... for sure they did the math.It is just that I don't understand their math

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:37:00 am
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on May 01, 2025, 11:28:13 amNot only, there is no hardware frame installed in SDM3000 models to support the scanner card, only in the -SC models.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:41:00 am
content: Yes i see your point...What maybe happened, that they later thought of the scanneercard and then realized they needed the 'extra 4-wire' to the slot. that before was only used for GPIBlast minute design desission? who knows...at least the confusion is gone now..can't wait to open itEDIT: what tautech saysits even more missing in a normal version

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:41:15 am
content: Quote from: Furna on May 01, 2025, 11:35:49 amCurrent maths for SDM3000-SC models, the SC version additional cost is less than an additional scanner card by itself.In other words, you get the scanner card and HW and wiring loom for less than the cost of an extra scanner card.Dave asked about this a while back so we looked at SDM3000-SC pricing:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5021944/#msg5021944

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:48:37 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 01, 2025, 11:41:15 amThe result ofmymath is I am now evaluating the SDM4055A-SC instead.Anyway I still have a couple of weeks before a final choice ...

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:52:31 am
content: Quote from: Furna on May 01, 2025, 11:48:37 ami wonder what is your use for the SC ? i had one in my SDM3065-SC, end i endedup not using is very much, (also i have enough DMMS to do it without scanning)for me it seemed only useful in production environments where you meseure many tempraturesSo what is your use?

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:56:00 am
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on May 01, 2025, 11:52:31 amThat is exactly the point; currently I have no use in mind ... anyway I would prefer, if the need arises, just buying the scanner card instead of n. new multimeters.EDITReally? Do you have so many multimeters to replace a 16 ch. scanner card?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:58:05 am
content: The decision should be made with consideration of the SC capabilities and limitations:https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_03_28/SC1016_Datasheet_DS60030-E02A.pdf

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 12:07:45 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 01, 2025, 11:56:00 amSadly yes... a very bad case of TEA and its not only DMM's i love counter too... its bad....bad....btw i have 2 videos or so about the 3065 scanner card on my channel, i made a breakoutbox (not very beautiful, but very useful)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 01:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on May 01, 2025, 11:28:13 amI think that's good, because it clarifies whether or not it would be possible to “upgrade.”Although it was already clear here that it wasn't going to work out:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg5020930/#msg5020930It's not just “2...4” cables, there are missing connectors, the mechanical mount, and probably components on the circuit board, and finally, the meter also has to “know” that it's an SC model, which means you would then have to access the firmware.No, the way it is now with the 4000 series is better.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 03:27:07 pm
content: I think the main reason for not allowing a user upgrade to the SC version is likely the voltage rating of the connector used for the scanner. So already having the connector installed could limit the maximum safe voltage. Another point could be just the costs of the parts with only few units actually changed to the scanner version.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:11:40 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 01, 2025, 11:56:00 amGo look at one of Tony's youtube videos and you can see for yourself. 🤣

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:15:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 01, 2025, 03:27:07 pmPersonally, I think it was a crappy design choice that they shouldn't have hung on to for the new meters. The 3000 series was clearly a copy of Keysight's meters. Adding on a card there was probably an afterthought that changed a no card design.Now, the 4000 series is clearly attempting to copy Keithley. The difference being that Keithley's system makes upgrading addon cards simple. The DMM6500 and DAQ6510 share the same analog board, but allow for two different types of scanner cards. Siglent should have followed this philosophy and made the SC card simply an optional upgrade. Why bother with 4 production lines, when you can do two? It makes no sense to me. They could have offered with and without the SC card as a simple optional addon.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:17:19 pm
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on May 01, 2025, 12:07:45 pmQuote from: KungFuJosh on May 01, 2025, 04:11:40 pmI watched the one about SDM4065A-SC ... and yes I noted a few devices around but I didn't take the time to count the DMMs.Indeed I noted he modified the DMM Check Plus adding SMA connectors ... nice one.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 04:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 01, 2025, 04:17:19 pmI think the fact that it would take time to count all the DMMs tells you everything you need to know. 🤣

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:28:01 pm
content: Closer look, also the rubber bumper changed compared to the Demo model.notches have changed.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:36:45 pm
content: Some quick shots... need new glasses, no clue what i am shooting.. can't get into the lab right now, but at least we have a quick look.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:41:22 pm
content: more

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:45:32 pm
content: more

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 06:03:20 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on January 11, 2024, 05:13:51 pmOne reason is china is very hard to be independent of the "western market". Worst case scenario is china invades Taiwan, everybody gets angry at china, china builds a big wall around itself and then stops interacting with the rest of the world. I'm not sure how realistic this scenario is, but china is also not a "normal" country.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 06:05:11 pm
content: @tony:Very good, then I don't have to open mine...

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 07:55:36 pm
content: ohhh they use their own SOM module ... lm399 a classic

author: bicycleguy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 06:18:16 am
content: Is it normal for new Siglent equipment availability in USA to be delayed or is this a chump thing?

author: sanderb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 07:11:18 am
content: Quote from: bicycleguy on May 02, 2025, 06:18:16 amProbably the latter. US prices went up recently on the US Siglent site. I purchased a Siglent SPD4000X before the tariffs kicked in, and it is now 15% more., which is very reasonable. Not everything went up though. SDS800X HD did (5%), but SDS1000X HD did not (which is also reasonable). SDM3045X remained the same, but SDM3065X increased by 15%. I am curious what the SDM4000A is going to be. I originally thought the SDM4065A would be sold for around $980 (slightly less than $1000), but I now think it will be at least $1120.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 07:39:45 am
content: Quote from: bicycleguy on May 02, 2025, 06:18:16 amNo it's not normal and until the tariff dust settles there will be some uncertainty.Just keep an eye on the US website.....sorry I don't have any insider knowledge.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 08:47:30 pm
content: https://www.batronix.com/versand/siglent/alle-multimeter.htmlBatronix has the 4055A and 4065A in stock. With the current special offer for the SDM3065X, you can choose between the 4055A and the 3065X, with a difference of just $3...Higher precision vs. more modern design.Why not both...

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 08:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 02, 2025, 08:47:30 pmBecause of the bank account.I am curious to see the internals of the 4065A-SC ...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 09:06:31 pm
content: It looks pretty much the same as tonyalbus's, except that the mechanic for the card has been added, along with the connections.Oh, I didn't really want to open it...

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 09:29:18 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 02, 2025, 09:06:31 pmThank you ... yes the board looks exactly the same; even the scanner card data connector is present ...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 09:43:42 pm
content: I will test the scanner card function soon.Personally, I would like a second scanner card with fewer channels but higher voltage resistance.Then it would also be suitable for work.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 06:04:57 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 02, 2025, 09:43:42 pmThanks for sharing your pictures,i see your inside fuse has a cover, while mine has not, maybe because of those cables close by.and you have an extra fuse in the backDid your seal also say: Calibration void and not Warranty void? when seal broken?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 08:33:40 am
content: Hi,Yes, it's now on everything, on my SDG6000X, SSG3000X...Siglent must have ordered the wrong seals and now they're just using them up.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 01:49:00 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 03, 2025, 08:33:40 amI think they finally ordered the correct seals. 😉Lots of countries don't allow warranty void stickers, because they can't invalidate the warranty for doing basic service.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 02:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 03, 2025, 01:49:00 pmAFAIK warranty void stickers are illegal in the USA; they are not explicitly illegal in EU but are probably not enforceable due to the law governing the warranty.I good sum-up athttps://www.ifixit.com/News/74736/warranty-void-stickers-are-illegal-in-the-us-what-about-elsewhereI appreciate Siglent opted to "lightly discourage" the practice of looking inside something that you *own*.I guess they have the full right to declare the calibration voided if the sticker is broken ...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 02:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 03, 2025, 02:18:12 pmProbably every TE manufacturer or cal lab uses cal void if opened stickers.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 04:11:13 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 03, 2025, 02:34:14 pmSurprisingly (to me) the one that doesn't is Fluke. They have little round stickers that go over the actual CAL button if it is externally accessible, but that's it. If you send something to them for calibration, it comes back with a little peel-off sticker (like from the DMV) that is still on the form so you can leave it there or put it where you want. The bench meters have a little outline where it is supposed to go but putting it there does not obstruct any screws or anything. Now if I send the same meter to Joe's All-Pass Calibration Lab and Sticker Store, I'll get it back looking like it is wrapped in crime scene tape.

author: Bad_Driver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 08:48:05 am
content: As far as I could tell from the photos, the new 4065 uses the same ADC and the same reference as the 3065. Otherwise, the two devices are quite similar.What’s interesting is the digitizing mode, which is a feature of the ADC used. It would be great if someone could test it, especially regarding the temporal consistency of the sampling intervals.

author: Shimonu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 02:15:32 pm
content: Do they come with any calibration certificate?

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 07:34:17 am
content: it comes with [Certificate of Calibration]1 sheet A4/letter, which basicly says:Appearance test, Function test, safety test and calibrationdone on fluke 5522A , at date, time, temp, sn.it passed calibration signed by engineerLike this:https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/faq-calibration-traceability/

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 04:25:50 pm
content: Today, my 10V reference arrived, which will serve as a “placeholder” until my adjustable reference is finally calibrated.Equipped with ADR1399, burned in for 4 weeks, calibrated with a 7.5 digit meter.I ran it together with the SDM3065X and the SDM4065A-SC for an hour at a room temperature of 20.8°C.Both meters show slightly higher readings, in the case of the SDM4065A by around +14ppm, which is not bad.(Provided that the calibration of the reference can be relied upon)I will log the progress over several hours with the test controller program at the weekend.Oh, and the Brymen is performing quite well in the higher resolution mode.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 05:30:21 pm
content: The test has been running for over an hour now, let's see how long I leave it running today.What you can see is that the two settled down in the first 20 minutes or so.I should mention that I had “burned in” the 3065X for about 6 weeks and also had the SDM4065 in continuous operation for about 3 weeks.What's interesting is that both meters measure the voltage higher. I actually had the impression that people had complained about the opposite in the SDM3000X thread.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 08:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 16, 2025, 05:30:21 pmYou can tweak the Cal, well at least in the SDM3065X and this User adjustment was added for owners to adjust precisely for drift as the DDM reference ages.IIRC this feature is in the Utility menu.I liked at anytime you could return to the factory Cal.Guessing SDM4000A has it too but I don't remember checking for it when at HQ.Defpom did a video on adjustment which should be linked in the OP of the SDM3000X thread.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 08:25:18 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 16, 2025, 05:30:21 pmStability already looks better on the 4000. You might want to change the scale to zoom in a bit.What was the temp and RH for the ref cal?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 08:32:54 pm
content: @Rob:That's a good idea, Rob, but I'll leave that to others when I send the meter in for its first calibration after factory calibration.The calibration will cost around €150, which is worth it to me.I have now finished logging after a little over 4 hours.I think the results are more than acceptable.I have also attached the log export.Edit: Room temp 21.3°C, RH 48%

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 08:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 16, 2025, 08:32:54 pmWell good luck with a Cal lab !One major US one didn't even know SDM3000 were adjustable and recommended they should be binned when outta spec !Cal (Performance Verification) is one thing, adjustment is another and when they don't have the script to auto adjust from their Fluke calibrators, manual adjustment seems just not worth the trouble.Good ones are hard to find.....

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 08:44:02 pm
content: QuoteThat's true, but I have other options due to my job.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 02:53:42 pm
content: The manual states HISense/LOSense input protection limitations as:QuoteShouldn't last line be referencing LO terminal? i.e.,Quote

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 03:25:07 pm
content: The senseLo limit still makes little sense. Of cause it should be relative to the normal Lo terminal and not itself. In addition it should be well more than 2 V as protection limit. 2 V would be more a sensible number for the limit for the meter to still get correct readings - could still be less. Chances are Sense Lo would have a similar 200 V protection limit. From the PCB pictures I would even expect a higher limit before damage is done. The more critical one could be the high side terminal in ohms mode, that may not withstand ESD or similar spikes that well.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 03:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on May 26, 2025, 02:53:42 pmThis came up in regards to the SDM3000X series, and was reported to Siglent who acknowledged it was an error.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sdm30xx-input-terminal-protection-limitation/In the SDM3065X User Manual edition UM06036-E01B from May 2017 it stated:QuoteIn the SDM3065X User Manual edition UM06036-E02B from Feb 2022 it now states:QuoteSo apparently this correction was missed when they created the SDM4065A User Manual (as of edition EN01A it is same as UM06036-E01B):Quote

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 03:48:14 pm
content: LOSense-LO 200Vpk looks better. There are also some spelling mistakes in the manual, somebody should go check that.Looking through the manual I don't see any reference to using both sense and force terminals to measure two voltages and show ratio V1/V2 on the screen (like in some HP/Agilent/KS DMMs).

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 05:49:53 pm
content: The SDM3000 /4000 come with a somewhat odd front end to get a 20 V with only a +-15 V supply for the analog part. This requires having the COM terminal not at ground, but moving it with the input. With this configuration it is not easy to use the sense input as independent inputs. It would at least come with some limitations (e.g. reduce the ranges to half) and extra effort (switch to a mode where COM is ground). In this case it makes sense to not offer the ratio function.In contrast with the HP/KS and Keithley meters COM is equal to circuit ground and there is relatively little extra effort (mainly software) to use the sense inputs also for a 2nd voltage.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2025, 03:04:06 pm
content: Some spelling errors in manual that needs fixingBinning Munual(on DMM display, p122)Menu > Help > Teach support(in manual, p29, p126)

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 06:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on May 26, 2025, 03:48:14 pmI'm not sure this correction is, well...correct! I don't have this meter, but on similar meters you'll see that the LO-sense and LO (force) actually have low impedance between them, not a direct connection but not anywhere near isolated. This is a factor that limits the test lead resistance in 4W mode--it can't be very large or the LO-sense-to-LO current will become a factor. Thus in these meters the LO-sense-to-LO (force) voltage really is limited to something very small because the current would become excessive at higher voltages. IDK if this applies to the specific DMM we're discussing here, but if someone could measure between those two terminals using a DMM with a fairly high compliance voltage then maybe we'd know.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 07:12:56 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 26, 2025, 05:49:53 pmI'm not clear on the construction of the input as you describe it, I would have thought they would just float the supplies of the input buffer and that doesn't really float the COM terminal, does it? In any case, the input limitation markings on the front of these meters are almost identical to what is on the front of an HP34401A and IIRC we're all pretty sure that once upon a time Siglent took a very close look at the 34401A! The 34401A has low impedance between the two LO terminals and in the ratio mode, those two terminals have to be shorted. Presuming that the SDM3000/4000 also have low impedance there--as implied by the markings--then I'm not sure why ratio would be difficult as it would only involve switching the input buffer between the two HI inputs.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 08:12:13 pm
content: The protecion levels are kind of industry standard. The SDM3065,4065 , HP34401 and most other 6 digit meters have protection via resistance of some 100 K to limit the current. For enough voltage rating the resistors are usually chains of equal values. The specs for the normal voltage input sometimes looks a bit optimistic, with relays that have limited voltage specs. Some meters seem to turn off a relay to prevent over heating the resistors. However his is more like a longer time thing.For this reason KS has some supension on the specs and use for high voltage.On the other side with the Sigilent meters the protection for the sense input often looks nearly as good as the main input. So chances are the 200 V specs there would have some reserve. The problem in the ohms more is more the current source that is usually through the main input - this may well not like a full 1000 V.The question of a ratio measurement is a different thing. They are just reusing the sense terminals. With the 34401 the sense terminals are from the HW side not that different from the normal input. The HP meter use AZ switching at the input and get a kind of differential reading this way. The normal voltage is input and COM=GND or for 4 wire ohms sense H and sense L as the 2 readings in the AZ loop.Sense low has no pre-charge and thus more switching spike, but would still be an input used for the low side and assumed to be low enough in impedance externally to absorb the current spike. One still wants a way to define the relative voltage between the main input and the 2nd voltage to measure. The direct link from Sense L to COM would be the obvious solution, but there could also be some voltage difference.With the limited supply in the sigilent meters the COM terminal can not be directly linked to the supply ground. It is very likely driven to the opposite if the main input,as this is the way to get a 20 V high impedance input and at the same time a differential signal to drive the differential ADC.This limits the available input range between COM and the sense terminals. As an example, if there are 20 V between the normal input and COM, the COM would be at some -10 V relative to the supply and thus little headroom (maybe some 3 V) for a negative voltage between COM and a sense input.The system with moving the COM signal relative to the supply ground is an elegant way to get a larger range and differential signal, but it is not compatible with easy electronic switching between more inputs. So it would be quite some effort to add an ratio mode to the SDM3065, while it is easy (no extra HW needed) for the 34401.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:09:25 am
content: I don't have either Siglent meter to look at nor a schematic (does anyone?) but I'd still like to know if I'm correct about the LO-sense having low impedance to the LO (force) terminal.As for the floating or bootstrapped voltage supplies for the 20V-range input buffer, are you saying that there is only one +/-15V voltage supply for the entire in-guard input circuitry? Other similar systems that I have schematics or information for use a separate bootstrapped supply for the 20V input buffer and then immediately divide it by 10 and send it to the 2V (or so) ADC. There typically is no "common" for this bootstrapped supply, but if you take the average of the two to be your common, then that will indeed be offset from the LO input by approximately the input voltage. But in the examples I'm aware of, this has no implications for the relationship between the COM/LO (force) and any other part of the system.The 34401A requires an external short between the two LO terminals to take an accurate ratio reading. Shorting those terminals in 4W ohms mode gives you a sort of 3W setup that still takes fairly accurate resistance readings. What happens if you short the two LO terminals on the Siglents and take either voltage or resistance readings? I'm guessing you can read +/-20 V just fine this way.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 07:09:54 am
content: AFAIK there are no open schematics for the SDM3065 around. I also don't have such a meter, just looked at photos. These show clearly just a single +-15 V regulated supply for the input section and the unregulated voltage should also have not much headroom as the heat sinks a quite small.As far as one can see the input is kind of differential. I could not see all the details, but it looks like some buffer (may also work as amplifier) than 2 dividers and buffers at the ADC inputs. So this really fits the idea of driving the low side (COM terminal). Signal switching is with CMOS MUX chips (ADG1208/1209) and these would not have enough supply range to alow a full +-24 V relative to ground.A configuration with driving the low side is a bit unconventional, but it makes absolute sense for a ADC chip with differential inputs. It may be a bit mind twisting, but the circuit itself is not to complicated and having a 20 (24) V range is nice. I have a somewhat similar configuration for my DIY DMM, though with a single ended ADC. So I know the limitations that come with this configurations.There should be no low impedance link from sense Lo to COM in the meter. There should be at least the chain of resistors (some 100 K) from the protection. Some meters have a clamp for only a relative low voltage (like 2 diodes) for sense low, but this could also be higher.It should be fine to connect the sense low terminals or a sense terminal to COM and still do the full voltage reading. One could however run into issues if one applies a voltage (like 5 V) relative to COM - one would than expect a current ( 10s of µA) at the sense inputs with some input voltages at the main input. Also the 34401 has not low impedance link. It just wants a reasonable low impedance (like < 10 K) external link, so that the switching spike can be absorbed.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 04:14:16 pm
content: ... and I finally received my 4065A ...@Martin72just to not reinvent the wheel: I guess for TestController you just copied&pasted the SDM3065 + IDN string modification. Am I right?Did anyone already submitted the modification to HKJ?Thank you

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 04:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 30, 2025, 04:14:16 pmIt wasn't exactly that simple, I made the definition. I'll share it here, and if it works, then I'll share in the TC thread. Needs more testing before that, and I don't have one of these (yet?).Do you have the regular version, or the -SC?Thanks,Josh

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 04:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 30, 2025, 04:46:31 pmThanks to you indeed Josh.I have the regular version.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 05:05:38 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 30, 2025, 04:48:51 pmTry the attached and let me know how it goes. I made 3 different versions.Thanks,Josh

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 30, 2025, 05:05:38 pmIt is working since 20 minutes without a glitch.I am currently measuring the AC mains (togheter with BM2257).I know; boring and not th ebest use of a 6.5 digit multimeter anyway the first and fastest thing to measure I had at hand ...I'll switch to something else in an hour or two.Completely unrelated to TestController: I found the network interface unresponsiveness even to a simple ping after I was playing with it for a while.I power cycled the device to have the network working again ... currently no idea how to reproduce it.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:07:16 pm
content: If that glitch happens again, try hitting the shift key (assuming it works the same way as the others) to switch to Local control again before reattempting remote control.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:23:11 pm
content: I think the attached file is the one that worked for Martin. @Martin72, have you modified the file at all? Or is it running fine as is?Thanks,Josh

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 30, 2025, 06:07:16 pmLocal control was working perfectly ... it was just the network not working.I played with EasyDMM-X - no issueSwitched back to Local and took a few measurment - no issueI played with the Web interface - no issueSwitched back to Local and took a few more measurement and played around a few menu - no issueI tried to connect with TC ... no connection but Local was working ...Tried to ping -> no replyThen I power cycled.Let's see; I'll pay some attention ...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:37:42 pm
content: Hi @Josh,I hadn't changed anything.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 06:54:47 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on May 30, 2025, 06:36:59 pmIf it happens again, and pinging doesn't work, try something else like *IDN? or *CLR or *RST and see if that does anything for you.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 07:57:01 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 30, 2025, 06:54:47 pmFound how to reproduceSoftware ver: 0.0.0.18Start condition: fresh new configuration, dhcp.Action to reproduce: set screensaver (I used 15 min). Immediately after (or few minutes later) Menu->Utility->Store/Recall->RestoreFactory/OKSymptom: network becomes unavailable. Device does not respond to ARP.Recovery: perform a second "RestoreFactory" or "Lan OFF/ON" or "LXI reset"The behaviour is not consistent ... every few RestoreFacotry it happens also without setting ScreenSaver ...Anyway not a big issue

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 09:52:47 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on May 27, 2025, 03:04:06 pmEhm ... it's not only a matter of spelling ...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 10:01:36 pm
content: It can happen.Furna, were you able to establish a successful connection with TC?

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 10:08:28 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 30, 2025, 10:01:36 pm

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 06:50:38 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 30, 2025, 07:09:54 amI'll reply to that when I return home in 2 weeks. The two LO terminals don't have a simple low-resistance connection, there are semiconductors or something involved. However, IIRC, if you put any significant voltage there, like 10V, I you'll get a large current. The maximum lead resistances for 4W ohms are <<<10k, and for ratio measurements anything less than a complete dead short will produce some error. But I don't have one available so I'll have a closer look when I do.You have an interesting theory on the Siglent design, the only suggestion I have is my previous request for someone to measure that impedance using a DMM with fairly high (10V?) compliance voltage.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 07:41:02 am
content: The maximum voltage at sense Lo for 4 Wire resistance is likely in the lower range, that use gain for the main amplifier. The limitation would be not so much the voltage at sense low, but the range for sense Hi is limited (some 120 mV) and if a significant part is lost at sense lo there is not much range left.For protection the sense input have some 24 K of series resistance.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2025, 12:40:13 pm
content: Any tear-downs of these?Curious about the internal Thermal/PCB design, type Reference and ADC utilized.Best

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2025, 04:19:32 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on June 18, 2025, 12:40:13 pmSee reply #130 Mike.Tony gave us a few pics:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-multimeter/msg5900438/#msg5900438

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 11:23:19 am
content: Does anyone know the password for user calibration for the SDM4065, weird it does have a passwordi want to play with this a bit,, when all goes wrong i set it back to factory.Rob maybe?@tautech

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 11:53:21 am
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on June 21, 2025, 11:23:19 amNo idea, actually never had one across my desk but first suspect would be the PW to get into the DSO Developers options.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:18:01 pm
content: No, it's not.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:28:46 pm
content: I was also going to play with user calibration a bit today ... DMM Check Plus r8 just arrived this morning.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on June 21, 2025, 12:28:46 pmDMM Check plus after travel to you is not good enough to serve as reference to adjust SDM4000.I would only make a calibration ( defined as measuring up all the test points, 10 times in a row, and writing down detailed results)And do that every month.At one point measurements will settle and become very stable.You will never know if changes were because of DMMCheck or meter.Until an independent high quality calibration on both is performed and then you will know.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 21, 2025, 12:18:01 pmI hit exactly the very same wall ... moreover the device freezes and I need to power cycle with the button.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 21, 2025, 12:43:45 pmThank you, I am aware of DMM Check plus limitations ...Since a user calibration does exists on my SDM4065A (I can switch between user calib and factory calib) and since the user calibration is far away from the reference 5V I was going to play with it ... but hit the password wall (and subsequent freeze of the device).IMHO something definitely worth to singal to Siglent.Going back to calibration ... the idea is to wait a few months (I would say beginning of January 2026) and send both device for calibration (for the DMMadjustment included).Enough time for stabilization.The plan is easy to realize if I do not relocate to Italy before that date ...BTW anyone knows a good lab that offers services to non commercial entities in Italy?EDIT: I just learned that DMM has a trim pot so will ask the lab if they can adjust the DMM check plus too.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:14:04 pm
content: Thanks Rob anyway you always respond very fast!@tautechindeed thats not it.tried also with the date 2025.06.21 for today and chatgpt thought it was 112112so i send now a support ticket to siglenteu, i wanted the original calibration report also.when i know, you know

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:19:05 pm
content: i just want to play with is, and use my WRYtech PDVS2mini and my DMM6500 and the GDM6091 , they all agree.and for other ranges i can use my old Fluke 5101B with the two Keithley/GW-Intek

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:21:31 pm
content: Tony, did you also got the freeze of the device after inserting a wrong password?Thank you

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on June 21, 2025, 01:21:31 pmThe first few times not (i think, i did not notice in my memory) , but after 2 time yesalso the [wrong password] window is sometime behind the soft-key-board,after  it just shows still the keyboard, until you click  and than the [wrong password] window appearedand a power cycle is needed also with mine

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:36:00 pm
content: Same here, reported to siglent.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 03:36:43 pm
content: May I ask you how did you report?Standard Siglent EU "contact us" form or did you contacted the seller?Thank you

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 07:09:45 pm
content: I know someone at siglent support, that would be more direct.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 08:08:45 pm
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on June 21, 2025, 01:14:04 pmTried the SN# or the word SIGLENT ?Anyone looked in the Help files in the chance the PW is there ?After visiting Siglent last August and seeing their instrument Cal lab and the rows and rows of automated Cal equipment, adjustment of any reasonably new instrument in my view is questionable however any precision instrument with a reference will over time drift.Again in my view isn't it better to concentrate efforts into measuring/logging any initial drift until it stabilises before attempting adjustment ?Still, User Cal in any instrument should be an 'available to all' feature and not behind a PW wall.Instead when entering User Cal amassive OSD warningis all that is neededandthe ability to recall the factory Cal.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 08:18:54 pm
content: Memory is relatively cheap and usually large enough to keep quite some of the calibration history. So the option for a reset to a previous setting should be possible.A PW protection makes some sense, but the users should have the default password. So the owner can decide to enable an effective protection. This is how it is usually done.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 09:56:03 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 21, 2025, 08:08:45 pmI see it a bit more pragmatically.Siglent's initial calibration ensures that the devices are within their specifications.Subsequent (external) calibrations confirm this or not.The parameters drift at the beginning, of course, but as long as they do so within the specified tolerance, it is only of academic interest, at least to me.The fact that I burned in my SDM4000A for three weeks is purely for sporting reasons.In real-life testing, you should choose a measuring device with a tolerance that is well below that required for the measurement tasks, so that you never find yourself in a situation where you have to question the measurement results.

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 11:37:01 pm
content: Anyone tried the obvious passwords...?SDM4000SDM4000ASDM4065SDM4065A4065A40656504A650440004000A123443211111abcddcba

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:23:40 am
content: I tried 1234 and I would also try all the other obvius ones ... if the device does not freeze and need a power cycle to return functional

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 07:22:30 am
content: Quote from: tautech on June 21, 2025, 08:08:45 pmIt is just to play with to try to get it the same as my DMM6500 GDM9061 and the WRYtech who all agree on most tempratures on 1 or 2 digits.Thats what a user call is for i would think. and you can just set it back to factory cal at any time.The Factory call is near good ~13ppm so yes within specs. compared to my other stuff of which i am sort of sure offThe strange thing is, the User-Call is very off, i would assume/expect it to be same as factory when arriving new.which is not the case with my meter, and i received it new, it was not the old Demo one from the video.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 07:37:00 am
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on June 22, 2025, 07:22:30 amI confirm; Facotry-call is well within specs.The User-call is way off.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 02:47:30 pm
content: For whatever reason, no password is now requested...Yes, the values differ drastically, but that's not so bad because you want to correct them anyway.That's the whole point of personal calibration, otherwise you wouldn't need it.However, I would steer clear of it for two reasons:-As long as there is no documentation available on how to do it.-You don't have the appropriate references that are sufficient for calibrating a 6.5 digit meter.

author: tonyalbus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 02:50:13 pm
content: The password is requested when you select Recili, not before

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 02:50:52 pm
content: Quote from: tonyalbus on June 22, 2025, 02:50:13 pmCorrect ... when you select Recali

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:37:11 pm
content: Yepp, my fault.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 02:11:17 pm
content: Things starts to look betterUnfortunately I cannot tell what has changed since the 10V reference just arrived a couple of hours ago.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 02:33:45 pm
content: This perfect match...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 03:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on July 05, 2025, 02:11:17 pmRoom temperature?

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 03:57:03 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 05, 2025, 03:10:11 pmWhen I took the photo it was 26.5°C; now 26.8°CDMMCheckPlus cal. certificate report 5V room temp 21.3°CTEN389 unfortunately does not report root temp.DMMCheckPlus meanwhile drifted to previously measured 5.00004VTEN389 looks more stable and drifted to 10.01649

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 03:51:30 pm
content: Just got my 4065A a couple of days a go, and been playing around with it. Nice to have such a comprehensive multimeter!But there are quite a few bugs that i have encountered so far. So the firmware could use some improvement still.Here is a weird bug:2W resistance: Turn on Auto Ranging and Auto Zero. Short the input leads to create zero ohms. The instrument shows about ~0.007 ohm. All ok so far. Then remove the short. You would expect the meter to measure open "overload" in the 100Mohm range. But nope. Mine shows about 0.014 ohm (slight fluctuating) and sometimes tries to switch to the 200k range, before going back to the 200ohm range. When i disable Autozero, the measurement functions correctly again. This only happens on auto range, when using fixed ranges everything works correct.And another bug/issue? On 2 wire resistance, when i just plug in the upper test lead, the meter already measures ~20Mohm. When i unplug the upper test lead the meter measures >100Mohm. This might be an earthing related issue here in the lab to be honest, but yeah this makes measuring anything above 20Mohm impossible.The whole datalogging and digitize functions are a bit unreliable. I had instances where the digitize function would continuously alternate between the true value of the signal and zero volt, when i was just measuring 5V from my lab supply. Exports to csv from both the datalog and digitize would sometimes result in the same incorrect values. I dont have a way to reliably reproduce this problem.It isnt really clear when you are in Continuous acquire mode that you are also recording, at what speed, and where in the recording memory you are exactly. You can save the recording from the Acquire menu, but in order to delete/reset the recording you have to go in to the Trend view. But in trend view you cant save them, you have to go back to Number view -> Acquire. A bit messy if you ask me.The Start value in the CSV export had a bit of a weird notation. For example:"Start date:,2025-09-05,Start time:,14:15:08.3.375781"Is it showing milliseconds or what?And maybe it would be nice to have better options to navigate (zoom, scroll, etc) through Histogram and Trend view?And as a final issue, windows keeps nagging about the usb stick needing to be repaired after it has been used in the sdm4065a. There seems to be no data corruption however.That is what i have so far

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 06:13:29 am
content: Quote from: S13 on September 05, 2025, 03:51:30 pmAgree

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2025, 09:58:05 am
content: SDM4055A arrived and now with a chance to spend a little time with it since last August when we played briefly with SDM4065A at Siglent HQ before release.First thing was to set time to NZ where I noticed there is also a setting for NTP time if connected to your LAN.Screenshot grabbed remotely using the webserver.

author: danno_cj
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2025, 01:03:18 pm
content: New one is already released SDM4075A 7 1/2 digits with 50000 rdgs/s.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2025, 03:50:07 pm
content: Quote from: danno_cj on September 23, 2025, 01:03:18 pmChinese webpage:https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sdm4075a/Chinese datasheet:https://www.siglent.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/SDM4075A-Datasheet_CN01A_.pdf

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2025, 04:17:11 pm
content: I'll take one.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2025, 04:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on September 23, 2025, 04:17:11 pmSpot this option ?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2025, 04:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 23, 2025, 04:33:05 pmI do like the rear jacks, but I'm guessing that's not going to be on the -SC version. I'd prefer the rear jacks though, I'm not going to replace my DAQ6510.

author: ass20
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2025, 08:29:12 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on September 23, 2025, 04:17:11 pmit is have LTZ1000 and adc ftom SDM4065 ?

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 05:01:40 pm
content: So i was trying to do some device sleep current measurement with a SDM4065A and i was a bit disappointed with the zero offset that came with this multimeter. So im running at the 2A DCI range and i first tried to measure the zero current level by just shorting the input. Im reading a zero level of about 380uA. Hmm, yeah when you are trying to measure microamps sleep current of say a microcontroller or something, having an offset of 380uA seems like a lot. But ok, it seems to be within spec of the meter.Maybe i was just expecting a little bit better calibration out of the box?The next histogram shows the results over a couple of minutes of measuring. It has a nice span of just 35.7uA, a std dev of 5.2uA and a distribution as you would expect. It even shows the distinct converter steps.Anyway, we can obviously use REL mode to zero out the measurements. And as expected that puts the zero level in the right spot with just minor fluctuations.The span, std deviation and distribution curve all look similar to the non-REL measurement so no problems here.But then the SDM4065A has an AutoZero option. But what the hell is that supposed to provide us?- It does not zero out the measurement at all, i get an average remainder of 85uA still- The measurement noise increases a lot! A span of 122uA, std dev 24.8uA, and the curve is all over the place- It obviously adds lag because of the additional zero measurement in between each normal measurementSo my question is, is there something wrong with AutoZero, or what is the purpose of it?

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 05:08:05 pm
content: Sidenote: i do realize the 2A range on the sdm4065a might not be the most accurate of the ranges. The 200mA range actually has way better specs and indeed shows less offset by default. I guess that is just a result of the hardware architecture.The AutoZero noise and offset problem however is still present on the 200mA range.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 05:30:26 pm
content: The SDM3065 or 3055 are known to use a TIA for the lowest current range(s). With such a configuation not current should use an open input and not a shorted pinputs. The current ranges should be similar to the 200 mV range, possibly even less voltage for full scale. So the 2 A range can be relatively noisy.The SDM3065 uses a AD8622 (pA range bias low drift BJT based amplifier, a bit like an improved AD706), likely as initial buffers for the inputs. It is not so sure if these buffers are included in the AZ loop. One should be able to see if it is included: if the AZ cycle includes it, one would see spikes in the input current from AZ switching. If not there would be essentially no AZ switching spikes.The input buffer could some low frequency noise and thus not so great 200 mV range.The wrong zero in the current ranges could be a problem with the calibration. It may also need quite some warm up time to stabilize.

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 08:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on October 07, 2025, 05:30:26 pmWarmup time wouldn't be the issue, the problem remains even after 4 hours of uptime.But yeah I'm thinking calibration might be the problem. So the DCV ranges are all pretty well zeroed out by the factory cal with shorted input leads. Like +1 or +2 counts across the ranges. Its just the DCI and ACI ranges that have this high offset. Its a pretty consistent ~38 counts or ~380 counts depending on the range. So with 2A it has +380 counts offset, 10A has +38 counts. These 2 ranges seem to use the same internal pathway in hardware (same amplifier or shunt resistor?), so it makes sense the offset is also scaled by a factor of 10 between these 2 ranges. The same applies to the 200mA and 20mA ranges, they both utilize the same path. And again for the 2mA and 200uA range.So what zero offset do other users of 4065A or 3065A get in DCI?The User manual mentions a "User" calibration option. So you can switch between Factory calibration and User calibration. But my user calibration has obviously never been performed, so it is completely wrong at the moment (its off by like -19000 counts or something in DCI 2A). And the menu doesn't allow you to execute a user calibration without a password. There is also no documentation available for user calibration, so its a bit of a mystery to me. Seems that Siglent still needs to do some work in this area. There is a file menu where you can browse for calibration files (.cal) but i have no idea how to use that.This is literally the only thing the User Manual mentions about calibration:The multimeter provides two calibration modes: Factory and User .Factory: Perform factory calibration.User: Perform user-defined calibration.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 08:54:23 pm
content: The instructions for the user calibration for the SDM3065 seem to only allow for a full calibration, not a partial calibration, especially not a separate zero adjustment. One may get away with editing an existing cal file, but this would still need a good one to start with. With the adjustment points it would still be difficult to change only the zero point. One still has the possibilty to use the rel. function. So zero before use. This may be the way to go, especially if the zero is also drifting somewhat (e.g. use an extra BJT based amplifier outside an AZ correction).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 10:26:46 pm
content: Quote from: S13 on October 07, 2025, 05:01:40 pmThat is the crucial point.As long as the values are within the tolerance range, everything is OK.The meter is working correctly, and any calibration laboratory in the world would confirm that everything is fine with the device.This can and may fluctuate over time; as long as it is within the specified tolerance, there is nothing to complain about.If you need more accuracy, you will have to buy a better device.

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 10:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 07, 2025, 10:26:46 pmBut then the question remains, shouldn't AutoZero correct for this offset? Isn't that what that function is for?

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 10:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: S13 on October 07, 2025, 05:01:40 pmPag.36 of the manual:When the state of "Auto Zero" is ON:The multimeter internally disconnects the input signal and measured circuit after eachmeasurement, and takes a zero reading.It then subtracts the zero reading from the precedingreading(displaying the difference between the measurement value and zero value during themeasurement), in order toreduce the impact of offset voltage from input circuit on measurementresult.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2025, 11:29:04 pm
content: Maybe AZ needs to be improved in the firmware?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2025, 07:22:55 am
content: With the AZ part the question may be what part of the circuit is included. The AZ switching can not be all the way to the input - there is at least the protection in front and this can add some offset from thermal EMF. Other meters also choose to have the AZ switching only for parts of the circuit. E.g. with the Keithley 2000 (and likely also 2002) there is an zero drift buffer at the input and AZ switching only from after the buffer. So an offset of the input would not be corrected. There is still an extra zero adjustment for the input part that needs a short at the terminals and is usually done during adjustment / calibration.Normally the AZ part is not that complicated. There could still be firmware issue, like insufficient waiting time when switching.The issue may be more with the adjustment / calibration procedure, that AFAIK does not include zero but uses 2 small voltages at testpoints. It there is an ussue (e.g. with the calibrator) it can lead to a zero that is off.Using the REL function to zero before use is usually a good work around. For really sensitive measurements it is anyway good practice to check the zero.

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2025, 08:36:03 am
content: Quote from: danno_cj on September 23, 2025, 01:03:18 pmShit... I purchased a Keithley DMM7510 a few weeks ago.

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2025, 02:52:37 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on October 08, 2025, 07:22:55 amYeah i guess that makes sense.So i think the whole AutoZero is a bit pointless then. If it just adds noise, doesnt fully compensate for offset (not like REL or proper calibration), and makes the sampling much slower, its just not worth it. Yeah it could compensate for drift while making long measurements, but to be honest i dont think the meter drifts all that much in short timespans of minutes to hours. Maybe if you have wildly fluctuating temperatures its a different story, dont know...Perhaps Siglent should have implemented a self-cal function on the 4065A. But since they didnt, they should definitely work on getting that User Calibration function working properly!Then again, I guess the whole firmware is still a bit alpha. Maybe they are just working on getting the 4075A released first and then start working on refining the firmware. You would expect this whole calibration thing would be even more important on a 7.5 digit meter, right?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2025, 03:06:56 pm
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on October 08, 2025, 08:36:03 amOh darn, looks like Scott is gonna have at least two 7.5 digit meters.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2025, 03:53:08 pm
content: With the SMD3065 / 4065 the value of AZ mode may indeed be limited. The SD ADC chip already has quite good zero drift specs. With many MS-ADCs the ADC itself has quite some zero point drift and there is also low frequency noise. For these it absolutely makes sense to use the AZ mode. With longer integration (e.g. 50 PLC) it can already reduce the noise by suppressing much of the 1/f noise.It depends on how it is implemented - the HP meters have AZ switching usually only the protection and a little signal switching before the AZ part. So they can compensate for most of the zero drift. It is mainly the thermal EMF from the protection that can't be corrected.I have some hope that the 4075 could be a reason to improve on the calibration / adjustment points so that 0 V is included.Quite some of the specs (especially speeds) still look similar to the 4065 and chances are it would be the same ADC, but with a better reference.

author: dEdt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 11:54:52 am
content: There is a firmware update to version 0.0.0.20 (Release Date 10.10.25) available for the SDM4065A from Siglent, solving at least problems I had with setting the vertical scale of the trend chart (uA/nA input was not possible, had to type as mA value 0.xxxxxx).

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 03:12:41 pm
content: QuoteI think Siglent is following this thread!

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 04:12:19 pm
content: I can confirm that the AutoZero noise has been improved. Compared to my previous measurements at 2A DCI, im getting about a 45% reduction in noise (~13.4uA stddev vs 24.8uA). But this is still twice as much noise compared to non AutoZero mode.Still a welcome improvement i would say

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 04:31:48 pm
content: Quote from: S13 on October 13, 2025, 03:12:41 pmLooks like it...

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 05:23:39 pm
content: Quote from: S13 on October 13, 2025, 04:12:19 pmThe AZ mode trades more short time noise for less drift and less low frequency noise.To really compare one would want to look at the allan deviation curve. There is usually a cross over time from which on AZ mode is better.

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 07:01:14 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on October 13, 2025, 05:23:39 pmTrue, but i dont see the meter drifting that much in the span of hours or days (which i assume is the timespan where most of the data logging is done). That cross over point is probably way beyond that. Unless there is maybe temperature drift influence i suppose?Anyway, i did some more measurements today, including some CSV exports of captured data. I see they fixed the timestamp bug in the CSV file that i mentioned earlier. It now properly displays the start timestamp with milliseconds, microseconds and nanoseconds (!)I am a bit puzzled though by the available memory for storing measurements in Normal mode (so not Digitize or Datalog). It appears the data just keeps logging and logging forever. The trend plot and histogram keep plotting correctly to well over 100 million samples! That is actually amazing!But no idea where the limit is to be honest...? (im up to 197M as we speak...) Maybe until that 512MB internal Ram is full?So for histogram you obviously dont need to store all of the samples, but what about the trend plot and stddev calculation? Is siglent doing some smart sample decimation for the trend plot to keep the screen data valid? Interesting!*** New bug report ***When trying to save acquired samples in Normal mode (not Digitize or Datalog) to a USB stick you only get 2 million samples maximum in the CSV file. I assume that this 2M number is what is stated in the user manual. But here is the thing: If the meter has acquiredmorethan 2M samples (as shown in the statistics window), the CSV file becomes corrupt. You do get the 2M samples in the CSV file, but at a random location the timestamps become corrupt (even negative timestamps). Im not yet sure what happens to the data, i will try to analyze that in more detail later.Note: If the meter has acquired less than 2M samples, the CSV file is correct.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 08:39:19 pm
content: With more conventional DMMs with MS ADC the cross over where AZ mode gets better than non AZ can be quite low, like 1 or 10 seconds.The later the cross over, the more sensible to use non AZ mode. I don't know the front end details, but in the SDM3065 there are AZ OP-amps directly at the ADC and it looks like AD8622 BJT based low bias OP-amps at the input. The current ranges may have extra amplification and may not be the best example for judging the meter. Where the cross over happens can also depend on the range.Already 2 M data points in a CSV file is quite a lot. One rarely need such long datasets. 197 M points would not really fit in 512 MBytes, even with just 24 bits and no compression. One can calculate the std. dev. without saving all data. It only need a few more sums independ on the number of points.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 08:49:27 pm
content: Having Samba is very convenient to directly save to network share...Also web control (VNC) is too, because when doing something sensitive where you don't want to come close too much you can nicely have things under control from afar..

author: S13
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:05:04 pm
content: Ah yes i see there exists a Running std deviation method, that would solve that issue.And for the trend plot, as you say it is virtually impossible to store all those samples in memory and plot them on the chart. So there must be decimation going on, at least for the higher sampling frequencies (in my test I was running at 50ks/sec). I assume it is something similar to peak-detect mode of a scope.QuoteTrue, but it is nice to know the limitations. And obviously if you do exceed the limit by accident you wouldn't want the data to become corrupted in the CSV. With 50ks/s you reach that limit in just 40 seconds.What would be the preferred behavior with this 2M limitation?Should the meter only memorize the first 2M data points after the start of an acquisition, and ignore subsequent measurements?Or should it behave more like a 2M FIFO, so you always store the last 2M measurements?Tbh i dont care which implementation is chosen, but it should at least be clear for the end user, so you know what data you end up with.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:08:39 pm
content: What is being discussed here is free running Auto meter mode and data from that process.But there is Log mode where you set timing and length (time/number of samples) and that one will capture deterministic number of samples.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:09:54 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 13, 2025, 08:49:27 pmUnfortunately the Samba client implementation in firmware ver. 0.0.0.20 does not support encryption of the data transport channel.I had to revert to "Desired" from the "Required" settings on my NAS for the transport channel in order to mount a share.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:35:59 pm
content: Whatever method they choose, they should make it so it exports the data uncorrupted. Even 1M points is too much in a CSV, unless you're using a script to do something with the data.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2025 05:55:06 pm
content: In firmware ver. 0.0.0.20 the NTP address is not saved between reboots.It always reverts to ntp.pool.org