ASAP Connect: The future of USB cables (fraudulent?) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2016, 08:40:12 pm
content: Found this campaign just today...https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/asap-connect-the-future-of-usb-cables#/I noticed the cable looks very similar to this:http://www.dhgate.com/product/magnetic-data-line-micro-usb-quick-charge/377862654.html(if not identical?). The seller even has a gold-colored version if you look at the last picture. (definitely not 18k gold plated, could this also be a lie?)Buying them at $9 wholesale from China and reselling at $39-40?"Through years of design and material testing,we'vereduced the size of the ASAP Connect tip to only 10mm (0.39") wide which fits perfectly into all your Apple and Android devices." Isn't this bordering on fraud?Also worth noting that the indiegogo campaign uses pictures from the dhgate listing (with the included Chinglish typos).

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2016, 09:54:21 pm
content: The campaign certainly looks like a copy of a number of already-available quick-connect magnetic adapters, that is true. Just look at what this search on Amazon.com shows up for "magnetic USB cable":https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=magnetic+usb+cableThe IGG campaign is $14 for 1 cable and 1 tip. That's about the price you see in the market. Nothing special. The "retail" price of $39 is perhaps what you may see in a BestBuy or Staples where people may not know they exist and are willing to pay more for cables (like those $50 Monster HDMI cables that are $5 online). The idea of putting in the $39 is to make more people on IGG buy them, figuring they will cost more later. But anyone who searches for it will see they are available anyways and that the higher price is really no threat. They figured $14 is comparable to what is already available, and it doesn't seem to be a huge risk for them to produce it because they will just re-badge some existing cable from an OEM.Personally, I would buy it from eBay. At least I have feedback from other buyers, and if there is a problem I can ask for a refund. Backing up IGG is still a huge risk because the people doing the campaign can just walk off with the money and never deliver, even if the product exists.They are banking on a huge order of items, which will bring their cost down to a few dollars a piece when they get a container-load from China, maybe under $1 a piece, so they can make bigger profits. Plus if they pad their shipping costs, they can get a bit more margin there. They can pay China OEM to custom-label the order and custom package. Then they work to stuff envelopes and ship.IGG does not surprise me anymore.I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese OEM's create "fake" campaigns to simply push their product (or various iterations of it) directly, thereby cutting out the middle-man (like you see here) who is just buying and selling Chinese products that nobody in the West knows about. For example, there are tons of electronic gadgets that are very cheap on Alibaba that someone could order from a Chinese OEM in sufficient quantities to customize firmware, the look and appearance of the case, color availability, packaging, etc. It may look like a totally new and different product yet really just be very similar or identical inside to what already exists.Then you may ask yourself, isn't this really what *MANY* companies do these days? They design a cool-looking gadget or device, add a bit of chrome and shape it differently, stylize it, sprinkle some fantastic marketing on it and voila! Guess where it's made? Shenzhen China? Factory City? Guangdong? Any of these (http://www.itimanufacturing.com/chinese-manufacturing-news/the-5-largest-cities-in-china-for-manufacturing/).So don't these "Creators" have a right to profit from their marketing and design? Do you really need a factory of your own? Or just a "Design-House" and the ability to create retail connections and get your product ordered from Chinese OEM's and retail it through Western distribution channels?

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2016, 10:10:50 pm
content: Impressive just how many almost identical magnetic cables exist!If the $14 pledge on IGG includes the cable I'm impressed, not too far off retail price. Can't be very profitable.The pledge only says "1x Adapter and 1x tip", so adapter = cable?The $42 pledge includes 2 cables and 4 tips.

author: Xenoamor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 11:57:18 am
content: Just found this comment on an Amazon review:QuoteAnd lo and behold...Zsnapshttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1041610927/znaps-the-9-magnetic-adapter-for-your-mobile-devic

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 12:17:02 pm
content: If you think your magnetic cables are better than others, I see nothing wrong in doing an indiegogo to have it made. The problem is the ASAP Connect campaign is claiming to be making, and having patented, a cable which isidenticalto an already existing product.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 11:56:30 pm
content: Plot twist:Maybe the creator on IGG *is* the company who is already making the cables?That would explain the price being equal to the online wholesale price and would mean their claims of "we" aren't factually untrue.Just a thought.

author: chargeasap
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 10:28:53 am
content: Hi,I'm Vinson Leow, the founder of asap technologies. We have had hundreds of companies steal both our artwork and our video. We work directly with Indiegogo and Facebook HQ so it's been very tedious working with them to try shutting down all the fakes that has been stealing our hard work.Here is our latest campaign for the world's first cross-device compatible magnetic USB cable:https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/x-connect-world-s-1st-cross-device-magnetic-cable-apple-iphone/x/8921344#/We hold a design patent and have a patent-pending utility. However there are many cheaper fake versions available online that don't work as advertised.Our cables are real 18K gold plated which is why they cost more than the fake cables you find on places such as Alibaba. I don't monitor this forum so if you have any questions please email me directly on: vinson@chargeasap.com.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 10:53:49 am
content: Waste of money buying these 18K gold plated cables

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 12:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: chargeasap on September 19, 2016, 10:28:53 amTell your bullshit somewhere else. How can someone "steal" from you if those products were available even before your IGG scampaign started.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 12:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: chargeasap on September 19, 2016, 10:28:53 amIt will take a lot of good evidence from your side to show you are not the thief here.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 01:08:18 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on September 19, 2016, 12:55:21 pmGoing to be pretty difficult I imagine when his campaign started 5 months or so ago and then you have Wsken's video dated in July 2015:Also, even if some kind of patent suit comes of it, don't you think Apple would get involved deeply in it? or Sony as they have a similar connector to MagSafe on their Xperias.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 05:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 19, 2016, 12:44:46 pmPlease be civil.QuoteI saw a design patent mentioned in there. Try selling something that one of the big boys have a design patent on and see how quickly you end up in court, so "steal" is a reasonable claim of there's a design patent in place.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 06:12:25 pm
content: Tell me this guy hasn't approached Wsken and asked to rebrand their product and it's being masqueraded as a kickstarter.Time to email IGG.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 06:43:47 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 19, 2016, 05:46:57 pmPatent number, please? Also patenting the design which were made by different companies at least a year before someone even heard about that ASAP connect, and which still have not delivered "their" product, won't stand in court and patent will be cancelled. Moreover, for example, in US, pending patent have no legal effect, therefore you cannot sue for any products which were made before the patent was granted.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:41:44 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 19, 2016, 06:43:47 pmYou don't seem to understand the difference between a design patent and a utility patent. They are not the same thing and there is no requirement for novelty in a design patent.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:51:25 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 19, 2016, 07:41:44 pmexcuse me, but copying existing design which is already on the marked for quiet some time is something more than just lack of novelty.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:06:27 pm
content: If there's prior art then the design patent is void anyway. In which case, unless Wsken and ASAP are the same company then ASAP wouldn't hold the design patent long. Also, this is useful:https://www.google.com/patents/us7311526and other magnetic connectors are often under prior art.So, without specific "improvements", ASAP's "patent" won't hold much weight.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:12:14 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 19, 2016, 07:51:25 pmThat still doesn't alter the difference between a design patent and a utility patent. Design patents cover the look and feel of a product, utility patents the method of working of a product. I could have a design patent for an injection moulded plastic flower and, if I did, nobody else could sell an injection moulded plastic flower that looked the same. I would not be the first person, by a long chalk, to sell a moulded plastic flower.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:14:53 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 19, 2016, 08:06:27 pmAgain, design patent != utility patent.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patentPrior art has nothing to do with design patents.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:25:27 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 19, 2016, 08:14:53 pmfrom that wiki link:Quote

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 09:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 19, 2016, 08:25:27 pmDesign, unqualified, is not helpful. Remember that the context isornamentaldesign and it all makes sense. I'll bet that "Hello Kitty" has dozens of design patents but it isn't the first cute cat toy/doll to be produced. Novel in that context just means not directly copied. That you reproduce the 'novel' claim out of context makes me suspect that you're not arguing for the sake of clarification, but just for the sake of arguing. If that's not the case, I apologise, but it sure looks like it having seen your posts before.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 11:04:45 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 19, 2016, 09:21:42 pmOk, then look on the pictures at the very first post. Analogy would be Hello Kitty vs Hello Kitty because they are exactly the same = directly copied or, more likely, just a rebadge of existing cable at 3x of the price. Even the the picture is cloned.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 11:06:07 pm
content: Hi there,Thank you for sharing your concern with us. At this time, the campaign is under review to ensure that it adheres to our Terms of Use (http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms). We will follow up with you if we have any further questions.So what happens now? We will include the information you have provided along with all other information at our disposal in our review of the campaign. In some cases, we will contact the campaign owner to have them edit their campaign and it will remain on our platform. If the project doesn't follow our rules, we may remove the campaign. We may also restrict the campaign owner's future activities on Indiegogo.To protect our users' privacy, we're unable to share the action we take. At Indiegogo, we take the trust and safety of our community very seriously, and we greatly appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this review process. To learn more about Indiegogo’s Trust & Safety effort, please visit:www.indiegogo.com/trustPlease note that you do not need to contact us again. Doing so would create a new ticket and prolong the process. Thank you again for taking the time to get in touch with us and for helping to keep Indiegogo a safe and secure platform.Hopefully we can save these fools who've backed this some money.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 11:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 19, 2016, 11:04:45 pmTake it up with the guy, who's here, who said they had a design patent. I was just trying to clear up your fuzzy thinking around types of patent and chide you mildly for your discourteousness. And your changing argument in mid-stream (from the general of what constitiutes a design patent to the specific of is this guy's design patent) lends weight to my suspicion that you're just here for an argument. There's no profit in feeding the trolls.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 11:47:55 pm
content: Hesayshe has a patent. If he has a patent why didn't he link to it. Then again hesayshis device is the world's first cross-platform magnetic USB cable. Which is clearly false because they've been out for over a year.Oh and it looks remarkably like the one from Wsken which you can see in Techmoan's video done in his review of several products.I think you're giving him too much benefit of the doubt Cerebus.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 09:21:41 am
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 19, 2016, 11:47:55 pmIf I'm arguing for anything it's for facts over name-calling. The vendor did us the courtesy of popping in to explain himself and the response was along the lines of "Bullshit! Liar!" etc. If he's withdrawn, which I suspect he has, it's because of that. How wouldyourespond if you were walking past a room and heard strangers discussing your project, you stuck your head in and said, "That's mine. What it is isthis." and were met by a shouted tirade? My response would be either to walk off muttering "worthless tossers" to myself or, if the abuse was too vituperative, to lose my temper. Informed civility costs little, being ignorant and foul mouthed is also cheap but the former is valuable, the latter worthless.As to the product, I have my doubts and am somewhat sceptical, but that is, at this point, not really the issue.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:25:19 am
content: Not really valid to come in and say it's mine and I have a patent without specifying what. If he did have a patent, why hasn't he shown the number(s) on his IGG campaign site and website to validate *ahem*hisproduct. You'd think that would make the whole investment seem more trustworthy.The onus is on him to explain himself when he has made claims, not the other way round.

author: Xenoamor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 12:15:43 pm
content: QuoteSo wait... Indiegogo are saying they will permit things that break their own rules on their website?

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 01:01:22 pm
content: Bad wording on their part, I'm sure.Anyway, got another email.Aileen, Sep 20, 23:22 PDT:Hi ...,Thank you for checking in about this campaign. At this time, the campaign, ‘ASAP Connect: The future of USB cables’, is under review to ensure that it adheres to our Terms of Use (http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms).So what happens now? We will include the information you have provided along with all other information at our disposal in our review of the campaign. In some cases, we will contact the campaign owner for more information or have them edit their campaign and it will remain on our platform. If we find the project or campaign owner doesn't follow our rules, we may remove the campaign. We may also restrict the campaign owner's future activities on Indiegogo.Hopefully they spend more than 5 minutes researching this.

author: philaburns
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 01:03:07 am
content: I know this thread is old, but I just want to clear up a point of contention in this thread in case future viewers come across it and get confused.US Design patents (known as registered designs in most other countries) ARE examined against prior art designs and must be NOVEL and NON-OBVIOUS (or inventive) over those prior art designs before they can be granted. That is not to say that design examiners occasionally get it wrong by either not doing a thorough search to find existing art (designs) or making an incorrect determination - if this is the case, the courts are the next step for revoking a (potentially) invalid design.Quote from USPTO.gov Manual of Patent Examining Procedure (MPEP):"In design patent applications, ornamentality, novelty, nonobviousness enablement and definiteness are necessary prerequisites to the grant of a patent. The inventive novelty or unobviousness resides in the ornamental shape or configuration of the article in which the design is embodied or the surface ornamentation which is applied to or embodied in the design."-https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1504.htmlSimilar, if not largely identical rules apply effectively worldwide.Phil(An Actual Patent/Designs Attorney)

author: PyroUnleashed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:27:52 pm
content: this may be an old post, but I just read the hilarious posts on the 1st page... Wksen is designed differently than ASAP, the 5 connecting rods are placed differently, ASAP is 1 row straight across and wksen is stacked like > .'.'. < that, in case some of you might be blind to minute changes... that's minute as in my newt, not men it... there are many duplicates and they all have various differences... I have a set of ASAP adapters, the adapters are just as they sound, you plug your existing phone cable into it and the magnetic tip into your desired device, it fast charges, has a blue light and the original ASAP lightnig bolt symbol on it... They have their own website now as do most of those IGG and kickstarters "companies" do... It did take forever to receive them, as the founder claims to be Australian and outsourced to China, and I pledged to the campaign halfway thru it, so I don't know if that matters... You can buy similar products like this at some stores that sale electronics now, and if you are looking for something not super over priced, amazon might be your best bet, or various colors, or the led light in the adapter/cable, as the ASAP led light is blue, and bright af in a dark room... but I've seen others complain about another adapter/cable having a bright green light, so it's all subjective I guess... The entire post that started this thread for it being fraudulent, maybe post a bit more evidence to this theory as you kind of seem like a crazy person that is just a bit salty and wanted to be toxic about something you stumbled upon. I would like to see a better comparison, other than that dhgate or whatever it was... znaps and wksen are not good comparisons as their connecting rods are different from ASAP's, and that it just the 1st visible difference...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: PyroUnleashed on December 28, 2017, 02:27:52 pmPlease look on the first post, nobody said asap is Wsken, they sold off the shelf Entalent cable pretending they are some sort of inventors.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 04:47:14 pm
content: Someone seriously claims this as an invention? I think Apple with their MagSafe would have something to say about that. Oh and I have 3 cables just like that on my two tablets and a phone already.