Question about getting a first ET job? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2012, 08:39:01 pm
content: Ok, I have just 5 exams to go out 52 for graduation, so I'm getting close. I figure another 2 months or so. I know finding a first job will be difficult, but I have a few odd questions you may say. As I said this program was 52 exams, and something like 75 books to be read. Its just an enormous amount of info to take in, as I'm sure you veteran ET's know already of course. How in the world do I put all I've learned, all that knowledge into practice, into use? I mean no matter what you will still need training on what you'll be working on specifically with the company you hook up with, no? Is that how it normally works, you get hired and just work day and day out with a veteran ET or Engineer? Also I read that you generally start an Electronics tech. 1, then after some years of experience progress to a Tech 2 and then after years of work/experience a Tech 3, each time moving up into more responsibility. Is this a remotely correct or accurate description generally of how it works being new to the industry? Thanks for any info, any help. I will appreciate any you may offer.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2012, 10:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: etstudent on September 15, 2012, 08:39:01 pmYou won't. You will find that you will "never" need some of the stuff (until maybe years later you remember you once knew something which would be useful now, but you forgot).You will find that some things you think are complicated and were you think you mastered them after studying your textbook are even more complicated in practice and in reality you know nothing about them.You will find that some things are done completely different, that your knowledge is outdated, or, the other way around, that the industry is stuck 20 years in the past.QuoteIf your education was worth your money you will have learned to dig into complex things on your own, make sense of things, and transfer them into practical solutions. And most of the stuff you learned was just teaching material to teach you that and could have been anything else.Good companies will provide some training for special tasks, provide a mentor and whatnot. But every company, good or bad, will expect that you will learn stuff on your own and that handholding will quickly no longer necessary.As a rough guideline (might be different in other countries) you should no longer waste the company's money, i.e. cost more than you produce, after half a year. And latest after a year you should earn the company some money, i.e. produce more than you cost.QuoteIn some companies. In others you are on your own.QuoteSounds like some country-specific thing. You didn't mention your country.But in general, unless you work for the government, promotions don't happen automatically. You need to qualify. And not only on technical level, but also on other levels, i.e. your boss needs to like you.

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 12:15:04 am
content: Thanks for the info, a bit sobering but useful info. Yeah i am in the USA, if that helps.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 12:26:48 am
content: My experience is you have to make your opportunity. I was Jr. Design Engineer working directly under the VP of the company when I was 22 years old with only a GED and some tech school. But I ate and breathed electronics and my boss knew it, so he hired me. I totally didn't fit the corporate image and I was fired at least twice by office managers, I got the experience of getting hired back after the next shareholder's meeting and watching the guy who fired me pack up his desk and leave. The company eventually failed but I got a lot of good experience.I think that's important when you are young. Find a small pond where you can advance fast even if the pond is kinda murky. Do everything you can, document everything like you had to teach a class on it, and don't get a big head.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 12:39:18 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on September 15, 2012, 10:02:22 pmI'd say "most", not "some".QuoteYep. It's a myth that you get mentored by some wise old guy with a grey beard and he spends every waking moment to teach you everything he knows. Just doesn't happen.In reality, what happens in that they (the company, your boss, and your colleagues, expect you to have the aptitude to learn on your own, and it's only if you ask, will people help you out on something. As they are generally too busy with their own stuff to hand hold you through most things.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 12:45:42 am
content: Quote from: etstudent on September 15, 2012, 08:39:01 pmDid you do a 4 year degree course?If so you'd expect to design stuff from day one, and certainly if you were hired as such.Unless you deliberately took a "technician" or "technical officer" role. Most people who graduate with a 4 year engineering degree would not be looking for technical level jobs.The title is usually a guide.e.g. if you were hired as a "junior design engineer" then you'd expect to get some (usually easy) design work from day one.If you are accepted for a design position then you would have been vetted for your design ability, graduate or not.Although it's not uncommon to be hired as a graduate design engineer and be eased into the design role. The longer term employee's will want the good design project work, and the junior designer can be left holding the soldering ironDave.

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 01:30:13 am
content: Yeah i went to a 2 year program, not 4. It is an Electronics technician program, NOT engineering. When I graduate in 6 to 8 weeks i hope to find something in the 20 dollar an hour range, while I go for my AAS degree in Electrical/mechanical systems and maintenance. But I need something, hopefully in the ET realm that pays "OK", so it will allow me to get my AAS. That is my plan anyway. Just getting nervous even with the ET diploma I won't be able to find something in the field to allow me to go for my AAS. I want to work on industrial equipment, plant equipment, conveyors and hydraulics ect. My credits will fit nicely into the degree, should have more than half of the needed 60. I hope I didn't confuse you guys now?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 01:30:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 16, 2012, 12:45:42 amNot that it matters much, as long as they're paying reasonable money.If it's just soldering the other designers prototypes together the stress and potential for major mistakes that cost the company money is very low.It also gives you lots of time at work to think about and plan your own hobby projects to design in your own time(Since soldering doesn't require your full attention most of the time)The downside is when that's all you ever do, because you can't really say "I designed product X" on your CV for future jobs if all you did was solder someone else design together. You can however list all your hobby projects without saying they were hobby projects (assuming you brought them to market).

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 02:16:39 am
content: Yeah, a two year degree you're definitely looking at something "jr." If you get in a small firm it can be a great opportunity, I was part of a patent filing and got to design just about everything the company sold after my first few months.If you want to work on plant equipment there's a really wide range of opportunity there. You might also think about joining the local electrician's union and trying to get a placement into a plant that way. Good job security if you get your Journeyman card, you can build a retirement plan that will move with you from job to job.

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 12:22:00 pm
content: Wow, a lot of great info thanks. I just hope I can find something in the ET realm so again, I can go for my AAS in Electrical/mechanical systems and maintenance. I'd like to work on industrial equipment in manufacturing plants like just for example, a UPS distribution center.

author: Wilkins
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 01:32:14 pm
content: Make sure your soldering is at a professional standard when you apply for jobs, a soldering test is usually part of the interview process for ET jobs, engineers might be able to get away with shoddy soldering but ET's will not.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 02:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: etstudent on September 16, 2012, 01:30:13 amfor a technician job? how much a 10 kg rice in your place cost? or how much you spend on your food daily? if not because my family and love of my place, i'll be joining you. i dont care if people call me AIM (america illegal immigrant). another point i would like to add to BAW's... in U we learn calculus and derivation, during work much or less simple arithmetic like + -.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 03:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 16, 2012, 02:32:40 pmUniversity... *bitchplease* in my country's engineer certification we have to go through calculus in technical college!

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 04:13:58 pm
content: I'm not following the last few posts, sounds like a food fight.The soldering post is interesting, maybe after I finish my ET course I will go through a NASA soldering standard certification program. How long would that take? Is that something you can do in a week or two or less or its something that takes months to get through and learn? Great suggestion, thank you. Something I overlooked a bit.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 06:40:25 pm
content: Quote from: etstudent on September 16, 2012, 04:13:58 pmThis comment puzzles me somewhat. Not that I know the industry, but I would have imagined technician jobs require good workshop skills. I would have thought you should know how to use a wide variety of instruments, how to diagnose and troubleshoot things that aren't working and repair them as necessary, and to be able to build up and prototype things from scratch. If someone said to you, "Please go make me an 'X'", you would be able to go off and do it. Is that not the case?

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 07:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on September 16, 2012, 06:40:25 pmWell sort of, but you learn an inordinate amount of information. As a Master CET told me when I first started the program, he said school is like learning to be a general doctor, but the company that hires you will teach you to be a specialist. That is what he told at the very beginning of my program.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 10:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: etstudent on September 16, 2012, 07:57:30 pmThat much I understand, but also there should be a bit of difference between an ET and an EE. An EE may get away with being so bound up in theory that they don't know the hot end of a soldering iron from the cold end, but an ET should be much more practically oriented. If an ET is only going to be a kind of lesser trained EE, then the ET will get beaten out of all the suitable openings by EE's. It's best not to be competing for the same jobs.So my feeling is, to definitely work on having a bunch of practical skills to go along with the theory. Being able to make good solder joints in fresh construction and rework cases should be right up there. This wouldn't be a bad idea for prospective EE's either especially if they have to make their own prototypes, but it seems like it would be even more important for an ET.

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 10:41:13 pm
content: Honestly, from my own experience, quite often the Associate Degree/Advanced Diploma level courses get a bit lost.All the practical subjects are in the first semester- soldering, "workshop practical" (using hand tools), measurements (using a 'scope, multimeter etc.), and from there on out, it's usually more theoretical stuff, until you get to things like PCB design ("How to drive Altium") and your final project.So for a full-time student, it's quite easy to not get that solid footing in practical stuff, and maintain it.

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 11:33:54 pm
content: Yeah they don't teach NASA standard soldering, they go over it but not in the detail that going through a NASA soldering standard certification course would. That is just my experience though.

author: Wilkins
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 11:16:07 am
content: Quote from: IanB on September 16, 2012, 10:17:17 pmThe courses only touch on soldering very briefly.It is possible to pass one of these courses and not really know what you are doing if you have never applied what you are learning at home or work.Personally i would give the NASA accreddited course a pass (afaik to do a joint to aerospace standards takes about 5 minutes per joint), if you haven't already done so go out and buy a soldering iron (preferable temperature controlled) and some solder (don't touch the lead free stuff, it takes much more skill to solder with), pull apart an old bit of broken gear with a big pcb inside it and practise soldering on that (desolder and resolder components) until you are confident.There are plenty of soldering instructional videos on the internet, make sure to take note of what a good solder joint looks like and try to emulate that.

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 12:37:27 pm
content: Quote from: Wilkins on September 17, 2012, 11:16:07 amThanks for the advice, appreciate it. I saw some really good soldering videos on youtube, it doesn't look all that hard. I of course did some soldering in the program, but not enough. I think with a bit of practice as you suggested I could become very good at it. I think a week or so of non stop practice, and I could become very good at it. Thanks for the suggestion.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 02:30:45 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 16, 2012, 02:32:40 pmLooks fair to me. 20$ an hour , 40 hours a week , 50 weeks a year (2 weeks off a year, not necessarily paid) . He's going for a 40k$ a year job. Looks about right for a beginning tech. After a few years he should make it to the 60k range.

author: etstudent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 04:30:27 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 17, 2012, 02:30:45 pmWell thank you for that, I thought I was being reasonable. Thanks for the info, appreciate it.