Tips for getting in touch with high-volume chip manufacturers? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Xevel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 04:39:14 pm
content: Hi,While I just found my way to the Register button (Hi everyone!), I have been looking at Dave's videos and at the forums on and off for a few years, even had aHaD post for deadbug BGA soldering(don't hold it against me, I only had that horrible cheap iron that day :s).Today I am faced with a problem to which my usual google-fu did not bring a satisfactory answer. I have a project for a client (proof of concept, final product would be for consumer market with reasonably high volumes) for which I would need to get access to specialized ICs that you won't find in any retailer's catalog. The problem is that the manufacturers with the technology I am interested in only talk to big players... I understand the requirement from their point of view to weed out relationships with low estimated ROI, but on the other hand how are you supposed to make a great, relevant product and grow if you can't access the necessary parts? Catch 22...Signing NDAs is not a problem BTW, and this is a serious project with access to the required funds.So here it is, does anyone have any tips on how to approach these kind of guys to maximize the chance of them talking to me?Thanks!

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 05:11:17 pm
content: Your post isn't clear. "Specialized ICs that you won't find in any retailer's catalog" is so vague... chips aren't sold in retailer's catalogs, unless you mean Radio Shack.To start off, are you talking about standard chips that are hard to buy in small quantity, or custom chips?

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 05:45:45 pm
content: ...telephone their sales department...?

author: Xevel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 05:47:02 pm
content: Ok, sorry about that. Let's try again.I am not talking about custom chips. What I am talking about are ICs that the manufacturer sells only to people who can ensure a high yearly volume. They are indeed hard to buy in small quantities, the manufacturer being the only available source, with the added difficulty that they explicitly say on their contact form that they won't even answer to individuals (not my case) and professional with low volume applications. The form also requests information about previous products brought to market.Instead of retailer I should have used the word distributor like Digikey, Mouser, Farnell/Element 14...My question is then how to convince them to talk to a start-up that has no previously brought to market products to show and that can not insure right off the bat that they will buy 50k+ units a year (even though that's the plan)?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 05:59:02 pm
content: Can you wave at least a 10K unit order in front of them?What's the company?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 06:15:55 pm
content: You'll need to phone them up and talk to them.Explain the tier one and tier two funding streams in place. Explain the size of the design team, market segment, route to market, four Ps etc and why it's worth their while getting involved. Explain how many million of their device you'll need, what commitment you're prepared to place now and how it is envisaged to grow in the future.And if you, or more likely a director of the start up, can't explain that lot, then you're not going anywhere.

author: Xevel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 06:33:40 pm
content: Makes sense. I'm going to work on that. I guess there's no shortcut. Thank you.Not sure the name of the companies would help in this matter though. Thanks for your help.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 06:40:39 pm
content: You should certainly get your client to make the initial contact so they can address the business stuff.

author: Xevel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 06:53:56 pm
content: Hey Mike, love your stuff too, inspiring reverse engineering on the Ipod Nano screen.I'll talk with him about that, great idea.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 07:13:14 pm
content: talk to the distributors for that manufacturer. they can typically help opening doors.50K parts a year for something that costs 1$ is not going to get you in at a manufacturer. that is distributer work.now, if your project uses more than one part. lets say , a few memories, a cpu , some diodes some transistors , and these can all come from the same manufacturer then stuff will start opening doors... manufacturers love 'bulk' supply.but in general , for under a million parts a year you don't get to talk to manufacturers.to access such parts you will need a business / project plan showing initial design cycle , protptye run timeframe , production runtime and estimated usage. if it is worth the manufacturers time they will open up. if not , you are shit out of luck. there are parts that are targeted at certain gigantic markets that are just not worth dealing with the 50k / lifetime customer.what part are we talking about here ? or is that secret ?let's assume it is some image processor for a cmos camera sensor like those used in cellphones. unless you are the module maker selling to cellphone manu's, or the cellphone maker, you can forget getting your hands on those. the design-in is too difficult and timeconsuming to deal with you. that market is saturated with established module makers. no place for a newcomer.now, you say you have a prototype : hoe did you get your hands on the parts you used in that one ?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 07:30:54 pm
content: +1 for distributors, especially if you have a contact of a Technical Sales or Field Applications Engineer in your area/country (not the sales hotline).+1 also for the bundling of parts. The more commitment you show to a manufacturer, the better are your chances of getting your voice heard. Obviously that you will have to get in touch with a distributor in any case, since no manufacturer can supply 100% of the BOM.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 08:32:21 pm
content: oh, and when we are talking about distributors : Avnet , Future, and their likes . I'm not talking Digikey , Mouser , farnell , RR. those are catalog distributors.Although they may be able to help a bit.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2013, 08:58:23 pm
content: Quote from: Xevel on July 19, 2013, 06:33:40 pmIn other words, it's all just BS...

author: Xevel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2013, 02:57:04 am
content: Quote from: edavid on July 19, 2013, 08:58:23 pmI don't really get your reasoning. Mine is this: I am operating under an NDA and as such I would prefer not to make a mistake letting out a piece important pieces of information (and by that I mean important in the eyes of the client's lawyers who happen to operate in a different country than my own, so not being an international lawyer myself I would prefer to stay on the safe side). Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I don't want to f*ck this up by mistake.That being said, I also fail to see how the name of the manufacturer in question would help.For other contributors: thank you. Now I'm going to see what I can do, even though the example given by free_electron gives me little hope.The manufacturer in question has a quite narrow range of products, so bundling is not an option unfortunately, but I appreciate the info.Also, I was not aware of the difference distributor/catalog distributor. It is the first project I work on where Mouser+Farnell+Digikey do not fit my needs.Do you mean that people like Avnet could go talk to the manufacturer themselves?What the client has right now is made out of off-the-shelf parts, but it's big and doesn't have the level of functionality we are aiming for this next prototype. If you have seen the history of Google Glasses prototypes, it is around the level of finish of the first or second one, and we're working on making something smaller, better and closer to manufacturable, hence the intended use of more appropriate technology.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2013, 07:22:44 am
content: Quote from: Xevel on July 20, 2013, 02:57:04 amThey do that stuff all the time, it's their job.Companies like Mouser and Farnell buy products from manufacturers, stick them on the shelf, then sell them in modest quantities. They're great for commodity products which don't require any support beyond a link to the data sheet.On the other hand, the likes of Arrow, Future and Avnet act as manufacturers' representatives as well as reselling product. You'll get a named account manager who will be only too happy to come in to see you, discuss your product, and contact an IC manufacturer on your behalf. They'll be able to understand your product's commercial potential, and if it's big enough to open the necessary doors, they'll obtain data sheets for you and bring in technical and sales people from the manufacturer as needed.Have you tried calling the manufacturer direct BTW? What happens if you call their phone number, ask to speak to sales, and explain to them what you've just explained to us?How could a company stay in business if they don't speak to potentially serious, high volume customers at all?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2013, 02:44:41 pm
content: Andyc is spot on. Avnet et al are reps. Factory representative. Digikey mouser are distributors.You may want to check the reps.