Got a shock. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: diracshore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 02:59:27 am
content: Currently I live in a old Victorian house. Seems to have no ground in the wiring. I was changing a light bulb and I got a shock for about a second from the bulb. Now the light switch was off, so I am surprised.How did it happen ?Its 120v, will I be OK or should I be running to the ER ? I feel fine.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 03:05:44 am
content: Next time put some gloves on.Simple, effective, and no need for ER in the future.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 03:08:20 am
content: Seems odd. What kind of light fitting is it, and did the shock stay in your hand or run up your arm?The first oddity is that when you change a bulb, one hand is touching the glass (non-conductive) and the other hand is touching the fitting (usually plastic, but could be metal).The second oddity is that assuming one hand was touching something made of metal, what was the live part and what was the path to ground?I would examine the fitting closely in daylight to figure out what might be going on with it.In the mean time, assuming you just got a zap to your hand and did not get knocked unconscious or anything like that then you will probably be fine. Especially if you went "ow!" and pulled your hand away quickly.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 03:13:36 am
content: There is people over sensitive to electricity, and they do not even know it.But there is no chance to find an electrician that he cannot handle a shock of CAT II 300V ...

author: diracshore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 03:29:53 am
content: Agreed, getting electrical gloves tomorrow, will never make that mistake again. Concerned as to why it happened. Also I have no clue how serious a shock like that is.....So the light fitting holds 5 bulbs and I was replacing 5 60w incandescent bulbs with 2 26w fluorescents to save 248W. It actually happened twice. I thought it was just that the metal at the base of the bulb was hot the first time. The second time the shock made me let go pretty quick. Didn't really feel where the energy went. My hands had been washed and dried about 25 minutes earlier and I was wearing socks on a wood floor. So there is the path to ground, but how would light fixture pass current if it was switched off ?I would say the shock went up my arm, thinking about it. I didn't let go myself, the electric made me let go. Just moved into this place. My UPS showed wiring fault when I plugged into the outlet earlier today. Not specific but I assumed it meant no ground since it was an old house, but according to the manual it could also mean inverted poles or overloaded neutral. Have a multimeter but not sue how to test, or even if I should be probing such a high voltage. They have fitted other newer outlets so I am using those, so i figured I was safe. It was foolish of me. Stupid stupid.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 03:47:13 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 04, 2011, 03:05:44 amI thought you were an electrician, apparently not.First of all he got shocked because the switch is miswired to kill neutral and not the hot, and the proof is that he touched the bulb thread which is supposed to be neutral. Second, using gloves to protect yourself from a live circuit may be up to Greek electric code, but in civilized countries power has to be shut off at the distribution panel with a breaker that shorts outgoing live and neutral before any work is done unless you have a certificate and appropriate training to work on live circuits, and even then additional gear may be required depending on energies carried by the circuit (and not just voltages).What a shitty advice!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 03:49:31 am
content: I have light fittings like that in my house. I'm not sure how it works in the USA but normally anything with exposed metal parts like that would need to be grounded.If you are getting a shock then live and neutral are probably swapped in the supply wiring from the light switch. The thought just occurs--are you by any chance touching the metal base of the bulb when you are screwing it in? If so don't do thatIt could be that your hand is making a connection between the base of the bulb and the metal fitting.Two things you need. (1) is a simple receptacle testerlike this. (2) is a mains voltage testing probe likeone of these.Thus equipped you can tell if each of your outlets are wired properly and you can also test for dangerous voltages where they should not be.

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:00:16 am
content: Quote from: Wartex on October 04, 2011, 03:47:13 amMy dad has supplied me with rubber gloves and leather protecting outer gloves that are rated and tested to 1000V AC. These are from his days in the factory working on 480V and the like. These would definitely be substantial to protect one from the mains.Make no mistake that there is no safer alternative than to killing power as you said, but just wanted to point out that there are gloves specifically for this purpose.

author: diracshore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:07:41 am
content: In the US, at least in the places I have been, they do not provide ground to light fixtures. I doubt that I shorted the metal fitting of the fixture with the base of the bulb because the white candlestick like parts of the fixture are plastic, and I wasn't touching anything else. The shock came from my finger for sure.IanB ,Ok, I'm going to pick up those items with the gloves and figure this out. Let me know the procedure please.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:19:51 am
content: Quote from: diracshore on October 04, 2011, 04:07:41 amStandard operating procedure when screwing in a light bulb is to touchonlythe glass parts of the bulb with the fingertips of one hand, and to touch nothing with the other hand. If you follow that rule you cannot get a shock.The rule is harder to follow in the UK since bayonet fittings often require the bulb holder to be steadied with the other hand. This sucks, but the bulb holder is often plastic and you can minimize the risk by treating all metal parts as if they might be live.QuoteThe procedure is simple. The receptacle tester comes with instructions. Simply plug it into an outlet and check the indications. The mains voltage tester lights up or beeps when in contact with mains voltages. It should never light up or beep when close to any part you might touch.

author: diracshore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:28:35 am
content: Yes I know, it was careless of me. i should have took a moment to think.'First of all he got shocked because the switch is miswired to kill neutral and not the hot, and the proof is that he touched the bulb thread which is supposed to be neutral.'How do I verify that ? touch the mains voltage tester to the base of the bulb when the light switch is off ? (wearing gloves)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:34:46 am
content: Quote from: diracshore on October 04, 2011, 04:28:35 amThat depends on the instructions with the tester--check what they say. The simple and cheap neon testers require you to touch a metal cap with your bare finger to make them work (it is quite safe). The more expensive electronic testers don't require this, but you still don't need to wear gloves as they have plastic cases.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:43:44 am
content: Quote from: Joshua on October 04, 2011, 04:00:16 amI am aware of this, I use them at work. These protect from "touch" injuries but they fail when pierced by a sharp object like a diagonally cut conductor and they do not protect from arcing. Typically these are used to toggle energized circuits and work on live circuits with insulated tools by*qualified electricians*. I know it sounds retarded to kill the breaker for changing a bulb, but if you live in a house with poor wiring, killing the breaker, testing the bulb socket with a voltage detector is a must before touching it. I've seen cases where entire chandelier was energized and person who grabbed it was killed and their hand burned off and separated at the wrist. They were standing barefoot on a metal patio chair on a moist concrete floor.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 04:50:33 am
content: Quote from: diracshore on October 04, 2011, 04:28:35 amThere is a possibility it was static buildup going out into the neutral. If you felt shaking, it was definitely AC and not static. When you bring up a non-contact voltage detector to the socket, it must not light up at all. I recommend Fluke or Greenlee ones, it's a must have for a man of the house.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 05:11:24 am
content: If it was me, I'd probably connect a long wire to neutral and start touching metal objects around the house with it while looking for sparksYeah, it's a bit dangerous but also fun.Note: i don't recommend you do this.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 05:41:03 am
content: I'd say it was neutral & active swapped over at the SPST switch,so the outer,threaded part of the lamp is "hot",Twin contact Bayonet bases as used in Australia have both active & neutral isolated from the metal body of the lamp,so touching this part is not dangerous,even if active & neutral are transposed.(Except in the very unlikely event of a fault in the socket .)Unfortunately,a lot of Edison Screw crap has been let into the country,(ain't free trade grand?),so we can have the same level of danger as other countries----higher, in fact,with our 240v system!The advice to always turn off the mains at the meter box before replacing lamps is sound.VK6ZGO

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 06:50:17 am
content: I obviously don't know about US Edison bases but all the Edison bases that I have ever seen here in Europe prevent theuser from touching anything live while screwing in a new bulb. Apart maybe from very old style screw bases (>50yrs.) anddamaged ones I really can't see how you'd get a shock while changing a bulb unless you deliberately stick your finger in thebase.If I got a shock from exposed metal parts of a lamp I know what I'd do: rip the lamp down and either trace the fault or throwthe thing out.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 10:37:34 am
content: And people have been wondering why EE's need a special licence to work on fixed wireinghttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4958.0Luckily in the US you are 120v phase to earth so you are a lot safer (but still at risk). Stop pissing about and get a PROFESSIONAL in, you are a long time dead. He will tell you you need a rewire and quote you a mind boggling price. Get it done and sleep at night. You are living (at the moment) in a death trap get it sorted before it kills you. Good luck in the mean time.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 11:26:22 am
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 04, 2011, 10:37:34 amUntil a slug finds its way into your power sockets.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2220.0

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 12:25:00 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on October 04, 2011, 11:26:22 amFunny thing is I was just thinking about that post just before you commented, Spooky

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 12:28:46 pm
content: Now I know how you electronics guys feel when you overhear a bunch of electricians trying to figure out something electronicPlease, don't touch mains wired shit wearing just socks. Wear shoes and use a wooden or fiberglass ladder. It's very unlikely that you'll get shocked standing on a wooden floor, but why risk it?I'll go over the possible scenarios first:Since this house is Victorian era in North America, there are a few ways the light could be wired and mounted. It could be knob and tube or romex (cloth covered) or BX (metal clad) with no ground. It could have been rewired in which case there is a ground. It could be mounted to a pancake box which is just screwed to the lath or the pancake could be mounted to a metal stud, or the pancake could be mounted to an existing gas lamp pipe which may or may not be grounded if still connected to the gas system. If there is one switch for this light, either the hot or the neutral could be switched, especially if parts the of the house were rewired over the years and the service upgraded. If there are two switches (3-way) and it's still the original wiring there is also the possibility that it's wired as a so-called "California" or "Chicago" 3-way, especially if the wiring is knob and tube. This type of three way switching takes a hot and neutral to each 3-way switch and feeds the light with either two hots (off), two neutrals (off) or a hot and neutral (on). This method was never allowed but was used a lot.The lamp:From your photo the lamp looks relatively new - less than 30 years old. The wiring in it is probably ok, but checking it with a volt meter attached to a known ground would be a good idea to see if there's voltage to the metal arms on the light. I would also check to make sure that each socket has it's paper cover under the candle cover. The paper should extend about 1/8" (4mm) above the outer casing of the socket and should cover the entire base of the bulb when screwed in. If someone used CFLs in the lamp, they may have removed the paper to get the CFL base to make contact, leaving the threaded part unguarded. It also looks like there's some kind of metal ring that goes in the top of the candlesticks for decoration. If that's the case and the paper is gone, you've got a lot of potential contact area exposed.So there are two possible sources of shock - the metal arms of the fixture and the outer part of the socket. If checking to a known ground on the arms shows no voltage with the light on and off, check the threaded outer part of the socket to a known ground with the light on and off. If either test shows voltage with the light off, you have a switched neutral. If the metal arms show voltage in on or off, you have a short in the lamp or in the canopy.It's also possible that the light is grounded, either because you have new wiring to it or because it's mounted to a gas pipe that's still connected to ground and that the hot and neutral are reversed, the threaded part of the socket is grounded and you touched the base of the bulb and the arm(s) of the light when screwing the bulb in. If that's the case, reversing the wires in the canopy should take care of the problem.Whatever the case, you need to take measurements to a known ground. And wear some shoes next time

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 01:05:19 pm
content: PetrosA Your diagnostic skills are not In question but the fact remains that his system has a fault, a potentially (sic) fatal one.The fault would appear to be system wide as he states that his UPS complains of a mains fault (probably live and neutral crossed at the service point or fuse box). There are obviously no earth leakage trips or he would not have gotten a shock (twice) and it all points to an old failing and dangerous system. Getting it sorted quickly is the only advice anyone should give, anything else is courting disaster if someone should get hurt. Shoes, Gloves and wooden stepladders are NOT the answer.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 01:37:45 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on October 04, 2011, 05:11:24 amWell if your house is properly protected the first time you touch neutral to earth the earth leakage trip will operate and you will not get a spark (or only a very small one). Nice thought though

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 01:38:55 pm
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 04, 2011, 01:05:19 pmIn case it's not obvious, my method is to overwhelm with possibilities in the hope that they'll hire a professionalThe UPS can only detect reversed wiring if there is a functioning ground as AC has no polarity. Reversing these wires at the mains box or service point could only have happened recently (since everything seemed to work fine until "Socks" decided to change out his bulbs...) if a complete idiot started poking around in the panel or meter socket. That being said, I am in complete agreement that a professional should be hired. The OP obviously isn't qualified personnel.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 02:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 04, 2011, 01:37:45 pmYeah, but his house has none of that or any earth connection, so a short to neutral will definitly get a responce if anything is liveIf i was in his position i'd be checking every metal object in the house which uses power.If one item is live more could be too.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 02:33:59 pm
content: I agree that the UPS detection indicates a functioning earth to the power sockets (How effective is another matter) but it would seem that it is not extended to the lighting circuit (not uncommon in old systems). The fault may be fixable but in all honesty it is well past it's sell by date. In the UK if an electrician works on your system he will test it BEFORE he starts work and report any issues. Any work carried out must be up to the latest regulations BACK TO THE DISTRIBUTION BOX. This means that if your existing system is not say adequately earthed that a new earth cable etc needs to be installed to the new regs so if you require a new light and no earth is available then he is responsible for the whole lighting circuit safety back to the box and not just the new bit and would need to renew the whole circuit or run an earth cable to all lights and switches on that circuit. I suspect a similar situation in the US. All in all a total rewire is likely to be the best/cheapest option.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 07:55:44 pm
content: I wouldn't worry too much about it, if you aren't killed instantly you're okay.I've been electrocuted many times with 240v (UK standard) and I know that feeling where it goes up your armgenerally everytime it's happened it's put me in very odd moods, it's a very strange experience, obviously a dangerous onebut as I said, survive the initial shock and you're fine.I once got electrocuted by a valve amp that wasn't in good condition internally (it wasn't mine) and that was 400 +voltsthat made me ill mentally for a few days

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 07:59:57 pm
content: Quote from: PStevenson on October 04, 2011, 07:55:44 pmElectrocute: tokillby electric shockhttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocuted

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 08:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: PStevenson on October 04, 2011, 07:55:44 pmNot true. People have had an electric shock one day and dropped dead the next. If you have any severe effects like unconsciousness, heart palpitations, trouble breathing, you should go straight to hospital and get checked out.

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2011, 08:52:09 pm
content: Quote from: Joshua on October 04, 2011, 07:59:57 pmyes,true but there just isn't a better way that comes to mind to describe it. I've been "bitten" by the mains - it always feels like being bittenand IanB I've had those effects, sure you can excite an underlying heart condition or something in rare cases - like in that episode of supernatural, but generally speaking without trying to worry the poor guy if you're not dead you're fine. have a cup of tea and chill out

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 03:42:05 am
content: I also shocked myself once upgrading a rusty ceiling lamp assembly, luckily it was a slight zap otherwise I would have fallen off the ladder. Next time, I learned to switch off the mains fuse board and use the none contact voltage detector.Many replies here, all I know is... it takes many EE guys to change a lightbulb.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 04:04:53 am
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 04, 2011, 10:37:34 amWell,actually,EEsareProfessionals! A licenced Electrician is a Tradesman!You have read a lot into,maybe,one incorrectly wired lamp,& one incorrectly wired GPO.(General Purpose Outlet).I would agree,though,the OP should get an Electrician in!He/she should check all the lamps & GPOs.If you need a rewire so be it,but if only a couple are faulty, he/she will fix them.If your regulations specify it,he/she may be required to fit an Earth Leakage Protection device.(Residual Current Device in Oz-speak).At one time,the orientation of Active.& Neutral in GPOs was only a recommendation in Western Australia,so you came acrossa few transposed ones,even in new installations by licenced Electricians!!The same may also the case in the USA.VK6ZGO

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 04:41:49 am
content: Quote from: PetrosA on October 04, 2011, 12:28:46 pmNot all "electronics guys" work with equipment run from 9v batteries!There are a lot of us out there,who like myself,have spent a large part of their working lives dealing with high voltage supplies,at up around 10kV AC & DC for high power Radio(50kW) & TV (10kW)Transmitters.Ironically,those of us who are more experienced may not have noticed the fault,for the very reason that we would have turned off the power to the whole house,changed our lamp,restored things to normal, checked that the lamp worked,& walked away.VK6ZGO

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 06:20:39 am
content: QuoteI'm one of those guys. Spent a good part of my early life building and installing tuning and phasing equipment at radio stations around the country, sometimes helped to construct a few new transmitter installations too, and spent a good deal of time around 100's of kW of live RF and associated high-voltages in and around those early tube transmitters.You haven't lived until you've jumped onto a live transmitting antenna of 100's of kW and climbed to the top to change aircraft lights.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 07:04:40 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on October 05, 2011, 04:04:53 amAs I have stated previously you cannot just work in an ad hoc manner nowadays If you alter any part of a system YOU are responsible for that subcircuit back to the board. If you fit an RCD you are responsible for ALL subircuits off it, as this sits between the distribution board bus bars and the incoming mains that means the whole system. Therefore my assertion that a total rewire would be called for as the existing system is very unlikely to meet code is not a big reach. Electricians are indeed mere tradesmen but have PROFESSIONAL standards and PROFESSIONAL codes of conduct, white collar professionals (small p) sometimes find this hard to remember when looking down from their Ivory Towers.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 11:15:32 am
content: ok. mains electricity huh... i better not give a helpfull post here. i'm out!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 03:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 05, 2011, 07:04:40 amI've never had one of those,but I've been to the top of a few steel ones in my day!The "Professional" comment was in jest!I'm not any type of Engineer (I don't have a degree) I'm a Tech,or at best,a Technical Officer,& I have very seldom,if ever,worn a white collar to work!I have no doubt that most Electricians are very Professional in the work,as indeed I try to be.The rules in the UK are not necessarily the standard for the rest of the world.I recently had a new kitchen stove wired in,& RCDs fitted as is the latest requirement in Western Australia,& there was no question of a rewire of my 40+ year old house,Am I to infer from this that the licenced Electricians who performed this work were somehow less than Professional?You have obviously assumed that because the OP's house is very old,it is still equipped with the original wiring.I find this most unlikely.VK6ZGO

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 03:33:47 pm
content: Well you have just proved my point.Quote>The rules in the UK are not necessarily the standard for the rest of the world.I recently had a new kitchen stove wired in,& RCDs fitted as is the latest requirement in Western Australia,& there was no question of a rewire of my 40+ year old house,<QuoteThey fitted a new Stove (I'm assuming cooker/oven) a single appliance with a single feed, fed by an RCD from the mains distribution board, all one circuit and all up to latest code. The other final sub circuits are NOT fed from this new RCD and were not modified in any way by the new installation. Conditions met. If they had installed extra sockets (GPO's) they would of had 2 choices1, bring the final sub circuit up to code for all GPO's on that sub circuit or2, put the new GPO's on thier own sub circuit (The cheapest and most often chosen option)However the OP stated he recieved an electric shock (twice) this indicates that the system has no Earth leakage protection (RCD's do NOT provide Earth leakage protection only current limiting/fault sensing) Therefore one would need to be fitted (or replaced if faulty) This would encompass the whole system and in 99% of cases a full rewire is the cheapest option unless installed in the last 10 years or so (unlikely given the lack of basic safety features fitted). The regs in the UK will indeed be different to the rest of the world in it's details but in overall standards are very similar worldwide (Except maybe Greece apparently).PS. Sorry about the Ivory Tower snipe It was uncalled for.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 04:12:10 pm
content: Quote from: Wartex on October 04, 2011, 03:47:13 amI thought you were an lunatic , and now I have proofs that you are.I am not teaching or preaching to every one who has the ability to use internet, of what to do in his own home.But you do ... this is why you are a lunatic.

author: AscendedDaniel
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 11:38:23 pm
content: Looks like I'm a bit late to party. It sounds you are fine, though, which is good.I can tell you what my emergency medical training told me about electrical burns and shocks. If you lose consciousness, get anything beyond a first-degree burn, have any burns to the face or hands, or have trouble breathing, it's time for emergency medical care. When in doubt, get help. Every EMT/paramedic I've met has told me they would rather come out to your house for nothing than the other way around. Of course, it's always your choice.In the future, I strongly recommend getting and using a non-contact voltage detector. I like the Fluke 2AC. Whenever I'm thinking about touching anything that could be connected to mains, I double check with this device. I've seen cases where killing the circuit breaker did nothing because multiple circuits had been intentionally wired together. I always check with the voltage detector just before touching it myself.http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/Electrical-Test-Tools/Electrical-Testers/2AC.htm?PID=70668

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2011, 11:58:28 pm
content: Well Daniel I had receive emergency medical training as boy scout when I was 15 years old.My second emergency medical training was when I was studding to become an electrician, and the third was in the ARMY when I was 20 years old.The point is not the emergency medical training, what matters is to live in to a safe home,and in order to live in a safe home, you need to call one professional electrician to check every corner of your new bought home.You need to have only one electrician visiting your home, and not every one who happens to be available at the time that you need him.And if all the inspections have be made ... Then you are safe to replace even a single lamp by your self.

author: diracshore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2011, 12:38:51 am
content: Thank You all for your help !You were correct, the socket tester shows hot / neutral reversed and the voltage tester shows the switched off light socket as live.So I try to explain this to the super, the brother of the landlord. He says "thats not how we do it in the USA". Then does an awful impression of my Chinese neighbor with the voice, "Yeah the Chinese guy said 'Oh a light bulb should not a shock a you' ". So there you have it, the problem is the foreigners and not the wiring.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2011, 01:01:50 am
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 05, 2011, 03:33:47 pmEarth leakage protection, or GFI here in the US is not required, or even available for whole house coverage. It is required in proximity to water sources and in damp or wet locations, in garages and unfinished basements.I'm not convinced that there is a system wide fault and only testing on site by a qualified electrician would be able to make that determination. The reality is that two wire systems have been in use SAFELY for almost 100 years. It's only when you try to interface with the system in bare or stocking feet that you generally run into troubleIt's important to note that the OP was trying to install CFL lamps in a fixture that was not designed for them. This can lead to safety hazards.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2011, 05:01:35 am
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on October 05, 2011, 03:33:47 pmNo,I'msorry,the "professional"bit was meant to be humorous,but fell a bit flat!Also,I should have been clearer about the stove installation.The RCD installation was for the existing light & power circuits,as required by local legislation,quite incidental to the stove,which replaced an existing one--on the original wiring.Under current WA legislation,any,at least domestic, electrical work requires the attending electrician to fit RCDs for the lights & GPO circuits,whether or not they are involved in the work required by the customer.The stove is a 2 ph hard wired device,& is apparently exempt,at least at present.(There was a lot of discussion about this when RCD legislation was first mooted,as it seems stoves have sufficient leakage as built,to cause RCDs to operate).Western Australia is fortunate in that we don't have a large stock of housing built in,or before, the early years of electricity to the home,& those that were,have almost certainly been rewired in more recent years.In the late 1950s/early 1960s Australia made a quantum leap in the type of wiring used domestically,from the old rubber insulated cable to PVC,& from hard Bakelite lighting & GPO fittings to PVC.Most of the changes since then have been evolutionary,rather than revolutionary,so a well wired house from the'60s,or an old one rewired correctly in those years is unlikely to be hazardous.We have both advised the OP to call an Electrician.If he does,he should end up with a safe installation,regardless of how the Electrician solves the problem.VK6ZGO