Are there AU/NZ 240V power outlets that can be PCB mount/attached? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 12:14:16 pm
content: I want to attach some small relay PCBs to the back of power outlets for controlling them. Manually wiring is fine but it makes me wonder if there is any such thing as a GPO with pins or a connector on the back for just this sort of purpose? The PCB wouldn't need to be structural in such a case -- eg checkout thesepanel-mount outlets:I assume such things are not made because the traditional wires-in-screw-terminals (or stabs) connections have the advantage of not coupling much force into the outlet, but on the flipside I've seen lots of wiring jobs with a lot of force applied to wiring in small holes behind light switches and the like.From looking at teardowns of smart power strips with one relay per outlet: it seems they go the route of custom making their own outlets with bent metal and plasticwork. Eg:https://www.cnx-software.com/2016/09/14/broadlink-mp1-quad-socket-wifi-power-strip-review-and-teardown/Another option might be to go for IEC C13/C14 connectors, of which there are some variants with tags/spades on the back that could be made PCB mount (provided you still panel mount them so the PCB doesn't have to be structural). But then I'd need lots of male cables like they use in server racks.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 08:42:13 pm
content: An international travel adapter or a male to female passthrough plug (piggyback plug without the cord) might be almost what I am I thinking about, if you ignore the fact they would be entirely mechanically supported by the PCB itself. I would be very curious to see how they react to PCB mounting and soldering, I suspect they might end up as molten messes of plastic

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 09:05:12 pm
content: How many of these things do you want or need?It's probably simplest to just buy a few of those extension cords with switchable sockets, or buy the panel mount versions and put them in a piece of plywood. Connecting a handful of wires to a bunch of these things is not a big deal.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 09:07:26 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on August 26, 2024, 12:14:16 pmWhat about screwing in short stubs of bare copper wire into the screw terminations, then creating your own PCB footprint of the resultant copper stubs?

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 10:56:59 pm
content: QuoteNot sure at the moment.For the handful I'm making right now: normal screw-terminals + wires are fine. If it goes into anything for manufacture then it looks like the only other option is the custom bent metal approach, but that's a pipe dream at a scale well beyond me.Quote from: Andy Chee on August 26, 2024, 09:07:26 pmGetting a screwdriver in there might be finicky, but it looks like there are both rear-screw and side-screw variants of outlets. Holding and soldering the wires might be a bit fiddly -- possibly more so than doing it the traditional way with longer flexible wires. I'll give this a goI wonder if I could solder banana jacks onto the PCB and get them to mate in the outlet xD For that to have safe and reliable contact I'd want to custom design both the jacks and the sockets, at which point I may as well make my own outlets.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 05:36:55 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on August 26, 2024, 10:56:59 pmI meant screwing in the copper stubs into the socketpriorto pushing the entire socket assembly with pre-screwed stubs into the PCB. I completely understand that screw access would be impossible otherwise.

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 11:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on August 26, 2024, 12:14:16 pmI've not seen direct pins, but there are many that could take stake-pairs, or a U slot QC tab, from a PCBhttps://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005005046910775.htmlThis one might screw thru the PCB, if you swapped to longer screws ?DigiKey Part Number 189-741W-E/01-NDAddit : This one looks closer, needs slots in PCBhttps://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005003002307736.html

author: jbb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 01:13:43 am
content: I suspect that outlet is intended to have wires soldered on. Soldering the contact lugs into a PCB might be a reliability risk due to the risk of solder joints cracking.Upon further thought, you may be looking at a compliance issue; I don’t know if a PCB mounted outlet with Protective Earth connected by solder & PCB trace only will be acceptable for product safety. I suggest you discuss this with a safety compliance expert sooner rather than later. If you have already confirmed that it’s acceptable, please ignore my ramblings.I totally get wanting a PCB mount socket, and I hope you find one. Having short cables jumping from PCB to socket seems like a pain in the backside.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 02:27:28 pm
content: Thanks for the links PCB.WizThose give me a few ideas and thoughts.Quote from: jbb on September 06, 2024, 01:13:43 amNo that's totally legit. I'm asking a few people about it.Wires only loosely couple any forces on the outlet to a joint/PCB. If you don't use wires and instead directly join PCB to outlet then you have some new mechanical challenges.I suspect the only viable solution would be to design completely new sockets just for this purpose, complete with internal wire/spring-equivalents, and get the whole thing tested more vigorously.

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 08:28:44 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on September 06, 2024, 02:27:28 pmIt's a valid concern, and it depends on if yourelyon the earth connection.Wobble forces would be the worst, so it depends how bad the Chinese sockets are, and also if they can tolerate soldering temperatures.We also never rely on a mechanical-use plated hole, for current integrity.Seen too many fail - so we always take the high current from the solder side.I'm liking the digikey one, just get longer 4mm screws to go thru the board, washers, and check for wobble.That may be faster than soldering high current pins in low cost plastic

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 09:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: jbb on September 06, 2024, 01:13:43 amIt is possible but requires end-to-end redundancy and a single path still has to carry the full fault/compliance test. Hand assembly with distribution board/cabinet type wiring isn't that expensive, just bulky.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 11:35:34 pm
content: Quote from: PCB.WizWhich Digikey one? Do you mean the HPM?That could still have some problems:(1) The sockets are likely designed for soft stranded copper wire, not a single solid core of hard material. They might not be able to maintain a grip on a screw in the long term as it doesn't compress like wires do.(2) Screw alloy would be important for compatibility. Wrong alloys might creep out over time or cause corrosion. Brass might (?) work as it's relatively close to copper, but I'm not sure.(3) Mechanical forces are now coupled between socket and PCB, which might cause the screws to loosen.

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2024, 03:36:00 am
content: Quote from: Whales on September 06, 2024, 11:35:34 pmThe Qualtek one 189-741W-E/01-NDThe screw would not bottom on the wire hole, as it needs to bottom onto the PCB copper.The Terminal becomes a fancy nut, so you need the right length screws.Yes, you would need to check for wobble and force transfer.I'd also use a terminal like this, if being paranoid.