How do I Get Started - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Tom10000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 01:38:55 am
content: Hello,i am a student in sydney i am just wondering how i could get started in MetrologyThank you

author: CalMachine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 02:20:06 am
content: If you're a hands on type of person... grab a multimeter and start measuring things.If you would like some text to read, you could check out Fluke's 'Calibration: Philosophy in Practice'

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 05:38:16 am
content: Build your own LM399 based referenceRead and build Conrad Hoffman's "Mini Metrology Lab":http://www.conradhoffman.com/mini_metro_lab.htmlLook at YT "Scullcom Hobby Electronics":https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDqryeq1kMDSEQwltWqASrA/featuredGood luck

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 06:04:02 am
content: Funny you posted this , I have an interview with a companies calibration department in a few days. Not sure if I will get it(no work experience) , but still managed to get an interview. I have the education , knowledge in statistics , and have a pretty decent lab.

author: dl1640
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 09:48:31 am
content: first thing is to figure out the purposei think most people here is interested in precision stuffmetrolegy grade instruments usually very expensive it is a expensive hobby, money and timeit is better to have a position in company or institute who has a metrology departmentthen you get started easier...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:05:41 am
content: Quote from: Vgkid on November 20, 2017, 06:04:02 amThen describe your lab equipment, its relative strengths and weaknesses.Say where you would and wouldn't trust the measurements, and why.Say what you want to get/do next, why, and the specs that will be necessary in new equipment.Say what youdon'tknow.Ask them the corresponding questions.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 02:22:49 pm
content: Good place to start is the Keysight measurment handbook.http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5950-3000.pdfAlso Keithley Low Level Measurements Handbook.http://www.valtar.ru/Manuals/Precis/LLMsH_07.pdfand not to forget. Fluke Calibration. Philosophy and Practice.http://www.introni.it/pdf/Fluke%20-%20Calibration%20Philosophy%20in%20practice.pdfGet reading through these as a good starter.

author: Shpak
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 02:59:17 pm
content: I think at first you need some theory.I recommend "Engineering Metrology and Measurements"

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 06:56:05 pm
content: First read this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/and be warned... there's still hope to get out!

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 07:25:28 pm
content: daqq, it's too late for me, I bought another Keithley meter todayBut what I wanted to say was about this channel:Quote from: hwj-d on November 20, 2017, 05:38:16 amHe's sometimes a bit naive in his assumptions. e.g. calling his mV meter 6.5 digit is more than a bit of a stretch right there since you'd need 22 bit for that, and his converter in that configuration will not even reach 21 bit, and that's not even considering opamp errors which are far from constant.And while it might be a bit boring, this is a somewhat recommended read if you're absolutely new to dealing with error calculations:https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Uncertainty-Measurement-Using-Expression/dp/0521605792

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:13:15 pm
content: QuoteSo, even make it, to learn it. That's the way.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: Tom10000 on November 20, 2017, 01:38:55 amWhat's your purpose? Do you want to ensure something or your lab is up to specifications, or is it an endeavour for the sake of it?Metrology can be both cheap and very expensive, depending on your needs and what you want to do.

author: Tom10000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 02:49:55 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 21, 2017, 02:43:20 amHello I am Wanting to get into metrology for the sake of it. i have been reading up on it and i have been finding it quite interesting

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 02:53:38 pm
content: I should like to suggest reading anything and everything you can get a hold of on the subject. Make some things you find interesting. For example, a set of surface plates or straight edges using Whitworth's method, a Kelvin-Varley divider,a Michelson interferometer, a Lacoste-Romberg gravimeter. The list is endless and what you choose doesn't matter. The objective is to understand the logic of metrology. How do you *know* that is a straight line? What are the limitations and errors?Learn the history of metrology. Who developed what, when and why? If you read 8-12 hrs a week you'll get there pretty quickly. If you encounter stuff you don't understand, skip over it and keep going. Come back to it later. I took a job right after finishing my MS in geology as a geophysicist. I knew absolutely *nothing* about reflection seismology and digital signal processing. I spent my evenings and weekends poring through a stack of books. When I got to the bottom of the stack, I started over. Very quickly I began to understand everything I read.Make a point of reading all the professional papers published by the national metrology laboratory where you live. When you think you understand the papers, contact them asking questions that show that you've read the paper closely. For example, why did you choose this approach rather than the method in the paper by so and so? Such a question should be focused on something they glossed over or better yet, didn't state. What method did you use for such and such? Just don't fake anything. You'll be spotted in a heartbeat and your chance will evaporate in an instant. Once you have their attention ask it they have an intern program.If you get to where you can carry on casual conversation with a metrologist of any type that demonstrates you understand what they do, what the issues and problems are and so forth you'll get a job. You do not need to be an expert on anything. What I'm describing is the sort of conversation a couple of people from different sections of a metrology lab would have in the cafeteria over lunch.Most of all,Have Fun!

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 10:29:29 pm
content: rhb describes a very sophisticated method of starting into a career in metrology. I totaly back that, start reading stuff you find interesting.I personally started with easy things, taking bits to pieces, looking into them and trying to figure out how they work.If you find a part that you don't know or a circuit you don't understand - search for it, rebuild it and play around with that.After you have the basic understanding of stuff dive deeper into it. Start building your own test equipment, enhance older ones, and stay motivated.As rhb already wrote, if you don't understand something after a reasonable ampunt of time just skip that part and revisit it later.That is the most effective way in my oppinion.And did I already say that you should build your own gear? There is nothing more interesting than that if you are into metrology,finding out "first hand" about the problems in such simple stuff as a resistance decade,built with cheap switches (i guess we all did that one time, didn't we?) and especially solving those problems.So.. just start with it. You really can't do anything wrong.

author: Awesome14
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 02:32:24 am
content: Metrology is a rather broad category. You'd have to choose some specific area to begin.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 09:28:15 am
content: Quote from: Awesome14 on November 22, 2017, 02:32:24 amYes and no.At the beginning it is desirable to learn theoretical aspects that are common to any and all measurements. Examples: statistics and procedures. They can and should then be applied to the beginners' first lab experiments.Later it is necessary to understand the vital second and third order details, and they tend to be related to specific measurements and technologies. Examples: allen deviations in time measurements, or reducing thermal EMFs in voltage measurements.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 01:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 22, 2017, 09:28:15 amExactly. It is a very broad field. You need mathematics for statistics and error calculations. You need electronics, because lot of measurements are electronics based. You need physics, because lot of measured parameter are physical. You also need physics, because a lot of error sources are based on that. You might need chemistry or quantum physics, optics, knowing the legal parts of metrology.And if you dont know some parts of it, it might bite you in the back.You might design a perfect measurement system, which doesn't work, because the thermal expansion of a part. Or another one, and fail, because that is just not an accepted method by the community.So, start with the math. Understanding that is essential to everything else.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 04:35:19 pm
content: With respect to the life work of all well-established professionals, to which I certainly don't count, a simple question generates an answer like a definition of "what is metrology".Hand on heart, is that what she/he is asked for the beginning?Possible answers shouldn't deter, but promote. Yes, metrology is the 'Holy Grail' of analog electronics, but do it a little relaxed too. Even in the beginning, someone needs successful practical experience ever. No learning without practical failing. To fail means learn, to make it better. The math and the knowledge of it for shure should go, but parallel, please.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 04:49:39 pm
content: Quote from: hwj-d on November 22, 2017, 04:35:19 pmYes. As I tried to teach my daughter, "let's makenewmistakes".Theory without practice is mental masturbation. Practice without theory is blind fumbling. You need both theory and practice.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 05:16:43 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 22, 2017, 04:49:39 pm