New PCBCART prototyping service - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: fredboivin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 03:42:57 pm
content: Hi!I just found out that Dave's recommended PCBCART website has been overhauled (that was much needed!) and they've added a new prototyping service!http://www.pcbcart.com/cart.php?page=capability___prototype_pcbThe price seems VERY reasonnable (43$ for 5 4x3 2-layers boards) and it's only 5 days lead time. That can be a very attractive alternative to OSHPark! The only thing is that you have to order 5pcs minimum.What do you think? Yay or Nay?

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 08:57:13 pm
content: They must have rolled out the new web site over the CNY break.It will be interesting to try the pricing on a mixed panel.

author: fredboivin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 09:16:45 pm
content: Just checked quickly:18in x 18in (max size), 2 layers, panel with 7 different designs : 182.59$/panel. That works out to 50cents/sq in, a little less than 3$ for the 5 boards the minimum order requires! Shipping doesn't seems to be included though, but they say they have discounted rates.Capabilities are also quite respectable at 4/4 and 6mil holes.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 09:48:18 pm
content: free stainless stencil as well!

author: fredboivin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 10:47:45 pm
content: Stainless steel!? Now we're talking.My job just ordered a prototype at a contract manufacturer: 60$/pcs for a 4 layer 4inx3in and 250$/side for stainless stencil!It could've cost them 25$/pcs + shipping with PCBCART. What a ripoff... But hey, they're close and trusted.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 10:50:27 pm
content: A problem with all the subcontractors I've ever dealt with is they need a full-size, sometimes framed, stencil, which can be most of the 1-off cost of a job

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 11:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 12, 2015, 09:48:18 pmThat's pretty sweet.The website was due for an overhaul, and their prices had slowing increased and increased over the last 5 years or so.Will have to check them out again.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 11:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: fredboivin on March 12, 2015, 10:47:45 pmThat should not be undervalued sometimes.

author: fredboivin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 11:20:11 pm
content: QuoteI know, I know. I can appreciate the fact of just having to send the design files and having them manage the PCB order, the kitting and assembling and having my built prototypes 2 weeks later on my desk.It just baffles me that nobody on our side or their thinks that spending 500$ on a stencil thats only going to get used once, maybe isn't worth it... I mean, we could easily save money bybuying thema smaller frameless stencil printer and tell them to use the free stencil from the PCB manufacturer!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 11:42:32 pm
content: 0.4mm boards tooI think they only had 0.5mm before.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 11:44:35 pm
content: Quote from: fredboivin on March 12, 2015, 11:20:11 pmThe problem is that it's rarely in the interest of the subcontractor to go out of their way to reduce this sort of cost, as it's an industry norm, and just something they pass on to the customer.A problem with having a second smaller printer is it's another thing to clean and put paste in, and train operators with etc. etc.Mydata's paste-jet machine is an interesting alternative, however I suspect it's expensive enough that the subbys that have one would want to cover its cost with a charge not much less than a stencil. Anyone have any experience of this?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 12:01:49 am
content: Shipping cost may be a killer for small orders, though stencil may compensate.Didn't see an option to add a second stencil for double-sided, though you can specify stencil size - at larger sizes it adds cost.Also the MOQ of 5 may make it less attractive for larger boards if you only need 1 or 2

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 12:55:28 pm
content: Quote from: fredboivin on March 12, 2015, 10:47:45 pmI'm in Vancouver. Who did you use that's nearby and trusted? I always like to know who's available in the country, in case I need it too.Thanks.

author: fredboivin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 02:14:07 pm
content: QuoteOur fab house is near Boston, because that's where the main office is. Our office is in Montreal and I know a couple reputable contract manufacturer in the area. I don't know how close you are looking for?QuotePitty they don't include a quick shipping estimator for that. Do you know a service where you can order a board at 1$/sq in + shipping in qty of 1 or 2?QuoteYeah, as anybody... We used to build our prototypes in-house, but higher management though it would save cost to outsource it. Funny thing is, we still have all the equipment we need (printer, oven, manual pick and place, shear, etc) and the office next to ours is a contract manufacturer! But they still insist that we ship all of that in the US, costing 100s of dollars in duty taxes every time.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 08:53:44 pm
content: Quote from: fredboivin on March 13, 2015, 02:14:07 pmThere's plenty in Surrey, BC.. I'm just not sure which ones are reputable. So please PM me the names of the ones you know in Montreal, thanks!I'll get a chance to use one from Surrey soon enough

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 09:45:18 pm
content: I think they are way overpriced.My next project consists of a board that is A4 size (210mmx297mm, is panelized with a bunch of other boards). 500pcs from Elecrow is $5016. For same boards from PCBCart, it is $41,000. I think I'll stick with Elecrow or someone else.

author: fredboivin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 01:48:58 pm
content: QuoteI'm not a rep for PCBCart or anything, and I was curious of the price difference, so I went and checked.Elecrow : 500pcs, 2-layers, ENIG, >750cm2, 5 designs................................................................5987$PCBCart : 500pcs, 2-layer, ENIG, A4 size panel with 5 designs, silkscreen on 2 sides, 1oz......................4478$I have no idea how you came up with 41k$ for PCBCart...On the small prototypes order, however, Elecrow is a clear win:Elecrow : 5pcs, 4-layers, HASL, 10x16cm................................................................95$PCBCart : 5pcs, 4-layer, HASL, 10x16cm, silkscreen on 2 sides, 1oz..............................218$and PCBCart is still double Elecrow for a 2-layer board.Well, seems I got excited for nothing...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 02:51:17 pm
content: I've found that there are some options at PCBCart that produce huge spikes in the price, but these tend to be problems with their quoting system rather than actual production cost. number of slots comes to mind.The flip side is that on occasion they increase cost after order is placed - had this happen with a board with a large number of test nodes.

author: wreeve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 08:42:41 pm
content: or gold flash; if you order gold over Ni and have a large non-photo resist area they get upset and charge you more!