Returned Product on Shelves Horror Thread - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 11:08:08 pm
content: I saw this Youtube video and just had to make a thread dedicated to this crap... NOTE: Products in poor condition only, not packaging damage!I mean, how dare they accept that thing for return, let alone attempt to sell that dangerous POS!EDIT: I'm glad he bought it, at least he seems to know what he's doing. Imagine if it went to some idiot who earned a Darwin award from it?

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:38:51 am
content: It's kinda cool that Lowes basically discounts these items though, I think most stores would not even try to resell it as is and it would probably get destroyed/written off. Makes for a fun project for someone willing to spend the time and effort.I've been pretty lucky myself when it comes to buying stuff from retail stores, but one time I bought an inverter-charger at Canadian Tire and when I opened the box it was just a regular inverter. I was trying to find out how it plugs into the wall and it was like "wait...". Was an inverter that looked the same as the inverter-charger model of itself so I'll give CT a pass for missing it. Someone most likely pulled a fast one by buying both then swapping them, as the inverter-charger was more expensive.Went back to exchange it and it was kinda hard to explain to the non technical clerk that it was indeed the wrong item. I ended up getting the inverter-charger but when I tested it, it had too big of a delay when switching from AC to inverter so I ended up having to return it again anyway. I guess it was more designed for RVs and stuff and not computers. It had about a 1 sec delay before it switches to battery mode.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 06:17:54 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 06, 2017, 01:45:41 amYep, as a business owner, it seems like I deal with 1 of these types of people out of every 100-150 transactions.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 08:28:09 am
content: I know the types and they soon get to know meTip: "If" you have to give in to their cheapass deceptive BS for reasons I won't get into,make sure you get your moneys worth out of the deal and advise them that they, and any others that try, won't be getting away with it 'easily' next time,and the response WILL be at a personal level, not business

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 08:48:05 am
content: Sometimes corporate directives will short-circuit any attempts to "keep the bastards honest" and instruct the "cave-in" response. They obviously have their "image" set at a higher value than the losses through such customers.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 09:59:34 am
content: I've had a few experiences with this, I bought a sealed box of champagne flutes that had been used and never washed before return, they'd been used for Bucks Fizz and had gone mouldy in the box, there've been other instances too.I've had things returned for refund/return which were obviously destroyed by the 'buyer', a 2M linear amplifier that I tested and have video of working, the transistor was toast, various bits of automotive diagnostic gear that had been abused in interesting and varied ways by mechanics (it would be an insult to chimps if I were to call some of them chimps)We took losses on most of the automotive gear, it was generally regarded as a loss leader because it was to be used in conjunction with much larger, more expensive equipment that we sold but if a particular customer was noticed to be abusing our 'generosity' we would start sending bills or returning the faulty gear with a note explaining that the damage wasn't covered under warranty.

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 01:47:00 am
content: Part 2

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 02:25:45 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 06, 2017, 01:45:41 amOne of my favorites is Home Depot told me that when military personnel move they get paid on the weight of their stuff. So they get a moving van and go to Home Depot and buy 90 lb bags of concrete get the truck weighed and then return the concrete (I was buying 60 lb bags when they told me of this scam). I forgot how many 90 lb bags the poor guy had to load (without a fork lift). So there is scum in the military (Navy) also.BTW Home Depot tries to not to this but sometimes the poor guy outside does not know the scam.Spoiler alert: it was the rings

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 02:35:25 am
content: What a bastid .. I hadda watch the 2 videos in their entirety, so as not to miss the tech stuff, and there STILL hasn't been a conclusion !!Anyone find a #3? He sure knows how to stretch you along though ! And adding the sprogglett adds awwwww :-)

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 03:53:58 am
content: Quote from: digsys on September 08, 2017, 02:35:25 amI also watched both videos and the problem was the rings from over filling the oil. Enjoyed the videos. Not sure if he is going to show installing the rings. Since the second video was posted hours ago, if he is going to show installing the rings, it will be awhile because he has to buy some. He has some videos on electronics, debating if I should add him to the YT list but I did subscribe to his channel.Still trying to understand the auto-decompression ball bearingThanks to the OP for posting the video

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:19:09 am
content: A few years ago some politicians traded away a whole North American country's future jobs and ability to regulate all sorts of services, so a few people could get rich, they thought by using the scheme to force other countries to do the same kind of deregulation, but the other countries mostly didn't fall for it, But they all lost out, and there was also a huge financial crash it caused, but, the politicians didn't tell any of them why!And now they are trying to do it again, what a bunch of clowns!https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/Signing%20Away%20the%20Future.pdf

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:39:29 am
content: Quote from: cdev on September 08, 2017, 04:19:09 amwhew heavy reading - wish I could read it

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 06:12:43 am
content: Lowes probably just figured someone would buy one for parts, given it's probably a real swine to get spares for anything they sell.I'm fine with the idea of stores selling a return as faulty/spares cheaply, wish more would as I don't have anything interesting the pull to bits lately.One of the cheap hardware stores has the issue where customers open products on the shelves to grab parts needed to repair a unit that broke not long after they bought it. Store eat the issue as it's their fault for selling badly made junk, problem is customers may buy a boxed unit and fix half the parts are missing from inside. *term unit used, as lots of different products they sell with this issue.related thread/video is Dave's Jaycar warehouse sale, which was all returned electronics, and yes some of it was beyond repair junk.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 07:32:28 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 08, 2017, 02:00:36 amAny organisation that doesn't check medical returns is on a suicidal path. Same for anything safety related.As for medications, we have had tamper evident seals in place for quite some time in Australia.Besides, dealing with returns is (or should be) quite separate from subsequent restocking/repair/write-off procedures.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:23:37 pm
content: Local Makro has a lot of chainsaws returned as "faulty", and the fault is always the same, no 2 stroke oil in the fuel, despite them including both a bottle of 2 stroke oil in the box, and a bottle of chain oil as well, and a big red label on both filling holes warning of the need to put the oil in, and another big orange warning label on the front of the unit, the top of the box and another on the chain guard ( you have to assemble the chain before use as well) warning of this.Same for generators, the 4 stroke ones also are easy, if it is returned brim full of oil they ran it without oil, and filled it up before returning it as "faulty" after scoring the living hells out off the piston and melting the whole lot together into a monolithic block of molten aluminium alloy.The standard return policy they have is all returns are not credited, but are sent to Ryobi ( they are 500m away as well, in the business park across the road), and there they are inspected and if it is deemed to be customer error then they get the repair bill, or it is repaired and sold if the customer does not collect it. Bought a service kit for my one there, it consists of a single part, one spark plug, aside from the need to make a gasket set out of some gasket material.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:37:05 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 08, 2017, 07:32:28 amIn the UK there's a lot of advertising to return unused medicines to the pharmacy. People dutifully return unopened medicines and without exception it is all to be sent for destruction as it may not be reissued to other patients. Pharmacists/pharmacies caught reissuing medicines are liable to be kicked off the General Pharmaceutical Council's register and losing their license.You may think this is stupid but since tampering and the storage conditions can't be guaranteed once it has left the pharmacy it's all destroyed.So when customers return their unopened non-prescription aspirin to the supermarket for a refund that's supposed to be a 100% loss to the them.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 06:04:13 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 08, 2017, 04:23:37 pmOnce upon a time, in all countries where you could get a motorcycle license younger than a car license, it was part of the natural rituals of growing up for all men to have once owned a (cheap, ratty, unreliable) 2 stroke motorbike*. Nowadays you're unlikely to be exposed, if at all, to the 2 stroke petrol engine until you buy something motorized for gardening. By that point you don't have your mates around to tell you that you need to put some oil in, just the wife asking "When are you going to get that bloody hedge trimmed?".*Mine was a Suzuki X7. Light, fast, non-functional in the wet because the ignition coil was placed *just exactly* where spray from the front wheel would hit it, and prone to getting into tank slappers if you accelerated hard uphill.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 07:59:18 pm
content: I have no problem with shops selling damaged returns as long as they are marked as damaged. However you don't see that anymore over here. AFAIK IKEA is the only shop that sell damaged returns in the NL. In Dutch IKEA can be an acronym for 'Iedereen Koopt Er Afval' (everybody buys garbage over there).

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 09:57:06 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 06, 2017, 01:45:41 amyears ago one of the big electronics stores reduced their return period for GPS and PDAs to one week from the usual 14 days. People were buying them to use on a vacation and then returning them when they came home

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 09:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: Avacee on September 08, 2017, 04:37:05 pmsame goes for anything frozen or refrigerated

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 12:36:36 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 08, 2017, 09:57:06 pmFor the weeks leading up to and after the Super Bowl here in the US, stores that sold big-screen TVs tell customers that the standard no-questions-ask return policy is not in force for those items.Because of course people were buying multi-thousand-dollar huge TVs for the Big Game and returning them the next week.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 08:12:55 am
content: With audio gear, a fair proportion of amplifers would be destroyed on the day of purchase. Usually the amp had been bought to replace a failed one which had been destroyed by shorted speaker wiring. The new one was simply destroyed in minutes, the same way. I would brief the sales guys to warn customers that the previous amp likely didn't 'just' fail, but it often seemed to fall on deaf ears.Always hated dealing with these cases because the customer returning the unit was always rude and abusive. It usually turned out that they were cheapskating and didn't want to pay for proper speaker cable or connectors, and their bodge job had caused the short.Quite a few of these would come in with linked-out fuses, even though the fuses were intact.It was generally better to refund in these cases because if you gave them a replacement they'd just destroy that too.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 11:33:33 am
content: Better not sell crap then. Good amplifiers don't break due to shorted speakers. Actually I can't imagine an amplifier without short circuit protection in this day & age.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 04:30:58 pm
content: You don't take human nature into account. Since the short is likely on 'bell wire' joined with sticky tape -which is where the short is- there will be enough resistance in the shorting strands to allow a ghost of a signal to reach the speaker.When one channel goes quiet, the balance control will be put way over to one side to achieve stereo balance, and then the volume cranked to the stop to get adequate listening volume. Unless the amp has very good protection circuitry it won't stand being runflat outinto a short for hours on end.Then again if fuses blow or a relay trips, the first thing the idiot does is to pull the amp apart and defeat the protection. They would never stop to think that the problem is elsewhere, and -heaven forbid- of their own making.In any case, it tended to only be the high-end stuff that had output stage current limiting or relay protection. Oh, and another way equipment gets blown is by paralleling two amplifiers (playing different programme) to the same set of speakers. That can even destroy an amp with current limiting. The protection ain't designed to cope with power being rammed back up the plughole, so to speak. Try telling that to a customer though. Or, earthing one side of a bridge output so as to feed an aux input on other equipment, is another common one.The ingenuity of customers in finding unexpected ways to blow relatively sturdy equipment that would last you or I a lifetime in normal use, has to be seen to be believed.

author: _Andrew_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 09:19:24 pm
content: In the UK if an item of equipment has been returned to the retailer used it can not be resold as new. So in some stores they will have this equipment on offer as graded.For example this could be Grade A as new, Grade B as new but may be missing some packaging and or some items, Grade C fully functional but may have cosmetic damage and may also be missing parts and packaging.With faulty equipment it is quite common for retailers to pallet returned faulty goods and place them in to auction as a single lot listed as faulty goods. With the volumes there dealing with it is just not viable for them to do anything else with the equipment. These are regularly bought up by people who will attempt to repair the faulty goods who will then sell them on as seller refurbished. Any equipment left that is not viable for repair then is often stripped for parts. A lot of seller refurbished products and parts on eBay have come from these sources.I used to work for a company that was dealer of a well known domestic electronic products company and with new product the well known company would only take back out of box failures. So if an item of equipment was returned at a later date under warranty although the well known company would supply the parts to fix it we still had to shoulder the cost of the labour required to fix it. So the labour cost of diagnosing the fault, repairing it, periodic inspection and test. It was not uncommon for the cost of repair to easily become uneconomic.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2017, 04:14:35 am
content: I once worked for an electronics retailer that had a problem with products returned under warranty that were replacement, not repair items. The faulty units were written off and thrown out. (Occasionally, I was allowed to take something I could use ... but with the strict condition that it would never make its way back into the product food chain. I understood this and always made sure I honoured it.)However, sometimes faulty goods (not from our store) would end up in the hands of unscrupulous individuals who would buy a new product and then return the faulty one - I think for a refund. The company had now given away a new item for free.This caused the write-off process to be changed. All products that were to be written off were noted on the computer system and kept aside in the store room. Periodically, the area manager would drop into the store with this printed list and supervise the physical destruction of each item. Only then could the shrapnel be thrown into the dumpster. I know - I was usually given the destruction task - and the area manager made sure I crunched each item to his satisfaction before ticking it off the list.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2017, 03:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 10, 2017, 04:14:35 amI know Brumby implied the following, but I just wanted to make it explicit.Be aware that this fraud is more often, but obviously not exclusively, committed by insiders rather than end-users. So it's quite likely to be an insider at the wholesalers/retailers who does this to you, rather than the ultimate customer. It's the wholesalers/retailers who have access to a ready stock of faulty products whereas it's quite difficult for an end-user to track down a 'dud' if their purpose is to get one for free or simply make money fraudulently.

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2017, 09:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 08, 2017, 03:53:58 amThis is what a pushrod valve system looks like:As the camshaft rotates, the cam follower encounters the pointy part of the cam and is forced to move upwards. This in turn moves the pushrod and one end of the rocker arm upwards. The other end of the rocker arm moves downwards and depresses the valve stem, causing the valve to open.When the cam follower is in contact with the flat part of the cam, then the valve is fully seated (closed)But on that particular engine as shown here:https://youtu.be/Y4Xd4-3Vjk8?t=426the bottom part of the exhaust cam is not completely flat, there's that ball bearing protruding.This will in turn make the valve lift just a tiny bit. It will vent some air during the compression stroke, making the cord pulling easier, but not enough to affect the combustion significantly.Then, when the engine picks up RPM, the centrifugal mechanism retracts the ball bearing, making the bottom of the cam completely flat and allowing the valve to close properly.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2017, 03:35:20 pm
content: Years ago, when I worked for Sears in the lawn and garden depth, a lawn mower was returned the same day purchased. When I took it out of the box, there was a 5" hole in the side' of the block. I checked the dipstick--bone dry. I refused the refund stating it was obvious the mower was run without oil. He bitched loud enough and my manager gave the refund. I talked to her and she said in the grand scheme of things, 1 lawn mower was insignificant, keep the customer happy. Look at Sears now. They obviously took back too many blown up mowers!

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 01:34:21 am
content: I periodically have to return a product that is defective, or just didn't fit the purpose intended. WalMart has a very forgiving return policy, so this is no issue, and probably doesn't hurt them that much because often I go on into the store and buy something since I have already made the trek into town.Every time I do this there is someone returning a bicycle that has obviously been ridden a bit. Apparently that is a common scam among the local homeless who need transportation. "Buy" a bike. Ride it to where needed. Return for refund. Free transportation. You can see that the employees are on to the scam, and tired of it, but they are constrained by the corporate policy.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2017, 03:44:29 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 06, 2017, 08:48:05 amIt's often cheaper to let a few bastards win. An even more compelling reason to do so is that there will sooner or later be a customer with an unlikely story telling the truth. I'd rather let 10 bastards walk, than to shortchange one actual unlucky customer.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 08:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on September 05, 2017, 11:08:08 pmThis has been fun, entertaining, and educationalthanks