Wired Router Connection 22 Meters - Fail! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 07:43:48 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--As I understand it Cat 5e RJ45 8 wire cable is rated for 100 meters. So, I am sorry to report that my Cisco/Linksys E1200 Wireless Router with 4 Wired Jacks cannot even push a signal 22 meters. My Magic Jack Phone works on the 22 M run but connection is too fritzy for my computer to be able to connect to the router for more that a few seconds. The wired connection completely useless for PC connection to the router. By moving things around in order to get a line of site path, unobstructed by concrete block walls and metal shelving, etc., I have managed to get a good 12 Mb Down and 3 Mb Up connection. The key to this solution was to use a powered USB Hub, and soldering up a 7 meter USB cable to allow me to put the Belkin Wireless USB receiver into the, unobstructed line of site.--I would be particularly glad to hear from anyone who has experience with wired router and drops of Cat 5e longer that 10 Meters.--The good news is that I bought 500 Feet of Cat 5e cable from a good US supplier for $30, shipping included, and have been making custom length cables, complete with booties for friends and family, willy nilly."Imitation is the sincerest form of television."Fred Allen 1894 - 1956Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 07:54:19 pm
content: With good quality cables and termination, I've never seen problems with ethernet due to length with cables well over 22m. One issue may be the difference between solid core and stranded cable. Solid cable is generally used for long, permanent runs, while stranded cable is used for patch cords from wall outlet to computer. I believe the total length of stranded cable between two nodes is limited to 10m, so I imagine 22m of stranded cable might fail to work. It's easy to tell the difference by stripping a cable. Stranded cables also tend to be more flexible than solid cable (one of the reasons why it's used for patch cords). Note that most 8P8C (often called RJ-45) connectors are designed for stranded cable. You need special ones for solid cable, otherwise the connection might be intermittent. Ideally you want to terminate solid cable in a wall outlet or patch panel.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 07:57:01 pm
content: It should be capable of doing it, I have done 100m runs with no problem using a generic switch and a Dlink switch at the far end to connect the 2 computers there. Only thing I can think of is to use a cheap and simple switch fed from the router ( extra ports as well) to drive the cable. Otherwise the cable is incorrectly specced or is terminated wrongly.

author: fluxcapacitor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 08:10:54 pm
content: Check your firmware and update it if theres a newer version.http://support.linksys.com/en-us/support/routers/E1200.The e1200 is a cheap router,a bit underpowered but ok with stock firmware, it shouldnt have any problems with a 22 metre run .As an alternative to the stock firmware you could try DD-WRT of tomato .

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 08:19:17 pm
content: my computer has approx a 30meter cat5e cable to the e3000 cisco router i have it has no problems at all the cabling goes up on and down near the edges of the wall trought 2 wall mount connectors and total 3 separate cable pieces. its happy to push around 940mpbs to the other computer. the 5ghz wifi drops out usually due to overheating(idiotic plastic design without much heatsink). i run ddwrt on it but i doubt it matters at all

author: AmmoJammo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 08:26:37 pm
content: A friend of mine bought some "cat6" cable, and proceeded to run it through his house... only to find it was junk... my cat5e 30 meter cables did 1gbit over 2 or 3 times the distance that his "cat6" cable could.Depending on whether you already have cables run through walls, it might be worth while doing some experiments with lengths, and quite possibly buy some new cable...

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 09:24:12 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 21, 2013, 07:54:19 pmThis is incorrect, there's no difference in the rating of solid and stranded network cable.OP, it is most likely a cable problem, or possibly a bad RJ45 jack on the router or computer, or a bad NIC on the computer. Did you try different cables and different jacks? If it's a desktop computer, try plugging in a PCI NIC.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 09:44:18 pm
content: Not the cable is rated for 100m, the Ethernet standards 10/100/1000BaseT define a maximum segment length of 100m. My guess would be also a bad cable or connector.

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 09:48:55 pm
content: Beware, cheap cables are CCA, copper clad aluminium, not pure copper cores

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 09:55:43 pm
content: Did you use T-568A or T-568B for the plugs I found that B works better for me, cant really see why but it seems to. Have you tested the cable with a tester often you find that one wire will have withdrawn slightly while crimping causing a bad connection also there are two types of plugs one for solid and one for multi strand the cables are the same and it's not a good idea to mix them.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:10:31 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on November 21, 2013, 09:55:43 pmT-568A/B are color schemes (orange/green reversed), nothing more :-) And just multi strand wire (patch wire) is crimped. Solid wire (installation wire) is punched into a LSA+/Krone/110 block of a patch panel.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:10:45 pm
content: Turn off any energy save features; I've found a router which dynamically adjusts its transmit power to match the cable length, but maybe it can go wrong.

author: belasajgo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:16:53 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on November 21, 2013, 07:43:48 pmI think the cable could be the problem... I made connections even over 100 meters in length, with good quality Cat 5e cables (even if it is not recommended, it worked fine). You should check your computer with a different router (and the same cable), or the connection to the computer with a different cable (and the same router and same cable length - or more). In many cases like yours, a faulty cable or a faulty plug creates the problems. Sometimes the problems can also be from interference (your cable is not shielded), but I don't think about this in your case.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:22:51 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on November 21, 2013, 09:24:12 pmEIA 568-B.1 states that patch cords should be at most 5 m, and the maximum allowable length of patch cords and equipment cords is 10 m. EIA 568-B.2 allows for a 20% higher insertion loss for stranded Cat 5e cables than for solid, and I believe the return loss spec is also different. This is assuming the cable isn't mistreated by bending it beyond its minimum bending radius. I'm not claiming 33m stranded cable is definitely going to fail, but it's not recommended by the relevant standards and not something I would use.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 21, 2013, 10:22:51 pmThere's something wrong here... 100 foot CAT5e and CAT6 rated patchcords are a standard item, e.g. from monoprice. How could they do that if it wasn't allowed by the Ethernet standards?

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:42:16 pm
content: Show us how you wired the cables up please... I had a similar experience due to getting twisted pair cores untwisted...

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2013, 10:43:32 pm
content: I have used 100 ft cat5e patch cables with no problem. Try buying a pre-made patch cable from monoprice instead of making your own. It can be hard to get right, especially if you don't have a cable tester. A crappy connector job may work at 100 megabit but fail at 1 gigabit. Auto negotiation does not give the cable a vote, so the end points will try to run at 1 gigabit even if the cable is not good enough. You may be able to disallow gigabit speeds on one side or the other and get a good connection.If you have to make it yourself, make sure you are using the right kind of cable. Bulk cable is often solid core which should not be used to make patch cables. You need stranded wire for patch cables (with crimp-on plugs on the end) and solid wire for jacks with IDC connections.Also, you don't ever need cat6. Cat5e is sufficient for gigabit, and cat 6a is required for 10 gig, although it is rarely used in favor of fiber or direct attachment. Cat6 is suggested to be able to run 10G over shorter distances (40 m instead of 100m), but my networking friends tell me that isn't supported by vendors. Cat6 is harder to connectorize properly, and may actually give worse performance than cat5e unless you test every cable.

author: andtfoot
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 01:39:36 am
content: If you are making your own cables, one thing to check is if you are using the right connectors (e.e.g solid core vs stranded).You can usually use solid core connectors on stranded cables (although I wouldn't recommend it) but stranded connectors on a solid core cable is a big no-no and will get intermittent connections. I unfortunately see this a lot.The way I tell the connectors apart is by looking through the side.If the metal parts that go into the wire have 3 offset prongs, it is usually a solid core connector.If they have a single blunt round bit, it is usually a stranded connector.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 11:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on November 21, 2013, 10:34:10 pmBecause in most cases they work well and you don't need a certified structured cabling at home :-)

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 11:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 22, 2013, 11:28:03 pmNo, that's not why. The CAT6 article is a little clearer:QuoteIf stranded cable has 20% higher attenuation than solid cable, you should be able to use 83 metres of patch cabling and no horizontal cable.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 06:55:32 am
content: I just cut a cheap cable to pieces, turns out the OHL manufacturer used alarm cabling ( if there was a twist in there it was by accident) and this one luckily snapped off a clip, so I was going to replace it then looked at the inside wiring colours, stripped off more sheath then cut it to pieces and put it in the scrap cable pile for recycling.Came with a cheap ADSL modem, so just took the last premade one off the shelf ( good ones, must order a few more Monday) to replace it.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 08:44:14 am
content: Your performance is odd to say the least. On good cable, with good equipment you can do 150m~ maintaining full speed from 100 and 1000, that doesn't mean you should, but you can. A run that short could be done with almost any untwisted flat telephone cable and get similar speeds.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 09:20:04 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--I want to thank everyone for all of the good advice and tips. After I ran the approx. 22 meters of Cat 5e Twisted Pair, stranded cable, I installed the ends, and then tested the cable with a cable tester, which shows all 4 twisted pairs are connected correctly. The 22 meter run works with my Magic Jack Telephone Device connected to the router, but not with the computer connected to the router. If I move the computer to the router and use a 2 meter cable, it works just fine, hence my "guess" that perhaps the router does not have enough oomph to go 22 meters, but that is just a guess.--Since, I have managed to get a wireless connection working by getting a better line of sight, I am not desperate, but I remain curious as to the nature of the problem. I have a backlog of work at the moment, but soon I will try replacing the cable ends, even though they test good. Presently the cable runs through the wall, under the overhang and down the side of the house, then back through the wall. If I run a cable, for testing purposes only, from room to room, through doorways, and down the hall, I can get away with a much shorter (10 meters) cable, which I will try in a few days, after catching up my backlog, and awaiting further advice.--I also want to thank everyone for not asking if I had the cable plugged in. See pictures below of the cable and its end connections.“One cannot escape the feeling that these mathematical formulae have an independent existence and an intelligence of their own, that they are wiser than we are, wiser even than their discoverers, that we get more out of them than was originally put into them.”Heinrich Rudolf Hertz 1857-1894Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 09:27:18 am
content: Yep, as others have said, 100mbit ethernet will go 100meters no trouble.If you are having issues at 20meters something is very wrong.Did the cable tester show the pairs correctly? Cheap testers cannot test that as the cable is electrically the same with the pairs wrongI've seen lots of people crimp their own network cables and just assume the pairing is like this, which is wrong|AABBCCDD|| || || |It should be|AABCCBDD|| || || |With the cable pairing wrong the range is absolute shit.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 09:29:54 am
content: Not terminated correctly. It goes Or/white, Or, Gr/wh, Bl, BL/wh, Gr, Br/white, brown. You split a pair, thus while it tests out right the impedance on the 2 pairs in the middle will be wrong, and they will have both ringing and horrible attenuation on them.http://www.lanshack.com/make-cat5E.aspxaround the first result with images on it.Easy mistake to make and not noticed on a 2m lead, but over 10m it is going to bite you. Done it a lot myself in getting those wires in the right order in the plugs.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 09:37:27 am
content: Yep, as SeanB says, the pairs are wrong.That is the reason for the terrible range.See my diagram and compare it to your 2nd to last photo.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 09:52:23 am
content: Dear Psi and SeanB:--I do believe you two have hit the nail on the head. In my ignorance I was unaware that different pairs have different twist to length ratios. You are both awarded an honorary Deerstalker Hat and a Calabash pipe for successfull sleuthing. Indeed, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I will re-terminate correctly, and report back. Many, many thanks.--For those of you following this investigation please see the below Wiki article which explains in depth, and with pictures, just what Psi and SeanB are talking about, I think.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable"I also require much time to ponder over the matters themselves, and particularly the principles of mechanics (as the very words: force, time, space, motion indicate) can occupy one severely enough; likewise, in mathematics, the meaning of imaginary quantities, of the infinitesimally small and infinitely large and similar matters."Heinrich Rudolf Hertz 1857-1894Best RegardsClear Ether

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 11:03:13 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Hot damn, thanks to Psi and SeanB, I have gone from FUBAR to a copacetic 5 by 5. Outstanding! Again many thanks to all for your good efforts. EEVBlog saves the day, once again. Now all I have to do is fix all the shorter cables, which I screwed up."Iron which is brought near a spiral of copper wire, traversed by an electrical current, becomes magnetic, and then attracts other pieces of iron, or a suitably placed steel magnet."Hermann von Helmholtz 1821 - 1894Best RegardsClear Ether

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 11:08:10 am
content: Also, with that large magic box of cable; whilst the spec says 100m is the limit, you can go further (within reason) and not have any issues at all, so if you need to cable down to the garage and its 120m of cable, don't fret, you'll be A OK!

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 11:19:34 am
content: Quote from: SgtRock on November 23, 2013, 09:52:23 amIt's doesn't have anything to do with different twist to length ratios of the different pairs.The problem is you have mixed two pairs so you are using a wire from pair B together with a wire from pair C as if they were from the same pair. So you don't have twisted pairs anymore, but just a wire from one pair twisted around a wire from another pair. So there's no twisted "shielding" anymore, but a lot more cross-talk but twisting a wire from one pair around a wire from another pair.PSI explained it in his post:Quote from: Psi on November 23, 2013, 09:27:18 amTo make it more confusing, there's two different accepted wiring standards [T568A and T568B]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568#WiringBoth works fine, but make sure you use the same standard in both ends.All the ready-made ethernet cables you buy are wired after the T568B standard. But you could use T568A instead as long as you do it in both ends. But I find it easiest to always stick with T568B. This way the cables you makes are identical to the ready-made ones you buy and if you put a new plug on a ready-made cable, you won't do it wrong.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 11:21:00 am
content: The reason for the weird pairing is because the RJ45 networking plug and socket is an extension to the RJ11 phone plug/socket which uses the center pair for telephone.Since RJ45 sockets are designed to also accept RJ11 plugs they had to keep the same pairing.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 11:40:10 am
content: From memory token ring also used the centre pair.A word to the inexperienced, watch out if punching cat 6 instead of cat 5, the diameter of the copper is different, i.e. you may end up with broken or bad connections down the track if you punch cat6 into a cat5 panel

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 11:46:46 am
content: Quote from: notsob on November 23, 2013, 11:40:10 amThere's also different RJ-45 connectors for solid and stranded wire.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 12:06:06 pm
content: Dear AndersAnd:--Thanks for your helpful comments. I think our posts may have passed each other in the night, as I cited a Wiki article very similar, but not the same, as the one that you quoted. I understand all of your comments, except the one about twist ratios.Quote from: AndersAnd on November 23, 2013, 11:19:34 am--In the article I cited,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable,it says:"Each of the four pairs in a Cat 5 cable has differing precise number of twists per metre to minimize crosstalk between the pairs."--Hence my confusion, about not having twisted pairs anymore.--In point of fact, I did not mix anything up. I was too ignorant to know that there was anything to mix up. I just thought, mistakenly as it turns out, that if you got the same colored wire at the same place on each end, and put partners from the same pair adjacent to each other, it would work, and of course it does, somewhat at least, on short runs. I am now fixing these selfsame short runs, duh." Meteorology has ever been an apple of contention, as if the violent commotions of the atmosphere induced a sympathetic effect on the minds of those who have attempted to study them."Joseph Henry 1797 - 1878Best RegardsClear Ether

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 12:31:40 pm
content: Cheap CAT5 cable testers can certainly be deceptive. A lot of people have no idea that their tester can't detect "split pairs" and believe the basic test result given. I have a "Test-Um" CAT5 tester and it's been invaluable for chasing down odd faults due to split pairs.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 01:51:23 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on November 23, 2013, 12:06:06 pmUnintentionally you did mix two pair twisted wires between pair B and C as your picture shows, so you use one wire from one pair and another wire from another pair as if they were from the same twisted pair.The problem is that the wires for pair B are not supposed to be placed next to each other in the plugs.As I said the different twist to length ratio has nothing to do with your problem.The reason the different twisted pairs have different twist to length ratios is to reduce coupling between the different pairs. But it doesn't matter what pair color and hence [twist to length ratio] you use for that pair number in the plugs. As I mentioned there's already two different accepted standards T568A and T568B that use different colors and hence different twist to length ratios for specific pairs in the plugs and it doesn't affect performance. T568A and T568B swap the orange and green pairs with different twist to length ratios, but what specific twist to lenght ratio is used for what plug pair, the ratios just have to be different between the individual pairs.Your only problem is just that you have done this:1) Used thegreen+ theblue/white wires and connected to pair B2) Used theblue+ thegreen/white wires and connected to pair CAnd green and blue colored wires are not twisted around each other so you can't use them for the same pair in the connector.You have to connect green + green/white to the same pair and blue + blue/white to the same pair.But it doesn't matter in what way you switch orange, brown, blue and green pairs [which all has different twist to length ratios]. As long as you just switch both the colored and colored/white wires of a pair. Using two different colors for the same pair in the plugs as you did won't work properly and this has nothing to do with what twist to length ratio is used for what pair.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 02:34:22 pm
content: Dear AndersAnd:--By amputating the quote you cited, you inadvertently gave it, an arrogance, which the full quote, did not impart. I said that I was too ignorant to know there was anything to mix up. I did not say I wired the ends correctly, in fact I made a point of saying that I did not. Also you might note, that in a previous post, I have already stated that I re-terminated the cable according to Psi's instructions (I.E 568B) and am now getting 5 by 5. Please consider re-reading my previous posts, since your explanations are making points which have already been overcome by events. However, I do appreciate your trying to help. Once again for the record, I re-terminated the ends according to Psi's advice (568B), and everything is tickety boo.--I do, understand that, twist ratios have nothing to do with the essential point you are making, I just found your statement about the "twisted pairs" on the matter somewhat hard to comprehend. I.E. ""So you don't have twisted pairs anymore, but just a wire from one pair twisted around a wire from another pair. So there's no twisted "shielding" anymore, but a lot more cross-talk but twisting a wire from one pair round a wire from another pair."--Perhaps you would consider having another to have another go at that one, just in case there is anyone out there who is as ignorant of these matters, as I am. Thanks again."I took a speed-reading course and read War and Peace in twenty minutes. It involves Russia."Woody Allen 1935 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 02:42:08 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on November 23, 2013, 12:06:06 pmas you stated, the different twist ratios are there to minimize cross talk between the different pairs in the cable. they do not preform differently from one pair to the next. fact is, no matter what the twist rate of the individual pairs in your cable, or how differetn they were form one another, the outcome would have been no different. the only reason yours didnt work was because the pairs did not match up. ethernet cables only use 2 of the 4 pairs, and one happens to be the center 2, the one you split. this is what andersand means by telling you the twist rate has nothing to do with your problem, it dosent. it has to do with how/why the cable is constructed the way it is, but that point is moot when it is wired incorrectly.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2013, 02:53:52 pm
content: Quote from: deth502 on November 23, 2013, 02:42:08 pmdepends on your definition of ethernet.gigabit and up use all 4 pairs. you only need 2 pairs if you want to run 100M or less

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 05:15:21 am
content: I think when he said he didn't mix anything up, he meant at DC, because at DC the continuity between the appropriate pins would still have been the same and thus, to an inexperienced person, so would have the end result performance.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 05:25:00 am
content: Yep, it's important to remember the cable can be electrically correct but have the wrong wires twisted around each other, which totally screws up high speed AC signals.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 06:59:24 am
content: The last image also shows a hopelessly inadequate crimp. The contacts are barely piecing the insulation.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 07:27:36 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--I was not well enough informed to mix things up, it was much worse, I did not realize that things could be mixed up. But now I are an expert. It is like Brain Surgery, right? See one, do one, teach one. I even used to work for a BrightHouse sub-contractor, Cable Connect in Hollywood Florida, doing driveway bores and long drops but I never had occasion to wire an RJ45 connector.--As I was correcting all of my mis-wired cables, I broke my cheap crimpers. I did not realize that the jaws where you insert the connector were plastic, duh. I am now in the process of buying a professional quality, all metal, multi-connector pair of crimpers. As Monkeh pointed out the el cheapos, quit crimping adequately after about 20 crimps. You live and learn. It reminds me of the time I bought a Radios Hack pair of wire strippers, the spring loaded kind with multiple dies for various wire sizes. They worked just fine, but at about the hundreth strip, one of the plastic handles broke off. Plastic handles, sheesh. I now own an all metal pair of Speedex strippers, which are about 30 years old. They cost me less than $10 on eBay, and work perfectly. If you want a real laugh, go down to RS and ask to see a soldering gun. Apparently RS has a policy of not selling any tool, unless it is prone to premature and sudden, melting, fire, or mechanical failure."I'll have the alfalfa sandwich and the smashed yeast.Woody Allen 1935 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 07:36:46 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on November 23, 2013, 12:31:40 pmA proper tester costs about US$10k, a cheap continuity tester just US$10. It's not hard to guess which one is bought by most people ;-)

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:41:51 am
content: Quote from: madires on November 24, 2013, 07:36:46 amFrom memory my unit (that does split pair detection) was about $150 at the time. Still quite affordable even if you don't do that many cables.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 09:13:41 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on November 24, 2013, 08:41:51 amWhat's the model name of your Test-Um device?

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 09:23:31 am
content: I can't find what looks like mine (it's at work) on the 'net, but the TP550 seems like an improved version with LCD. Mine has LEDs.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 11:11:38 am
content: I have a cheap tester that will detect split pairs but only if you can see both ends at the same time, fine for patch leads you leave the two halves connected but if its a long cable running through walls etc you have to separate the two and plug one bit on each end then you cannot see if the led's flash together in sequence or not.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 12:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on November 24, 2013, 11:11:38 amThat's doesn't sound like a test for split pairs. Split pairs are not detectable via simple DC signals. Have a read back to get a better understanding of what a split pair means and you'll see what I mean.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 02:50:53 pm
content: Maybe it's time to develop an open source CAT5/6 cable tester? An easy way to check for split pairs would be to measure and compare wire to wire capacitances. Another way is to connect all 8 wires to configurable PWM outputs (only two of which need to be active at a time) through termination resistors and use a mux and amplitude detector to check signal levels on all 4 pairs. Might even be able to do TDR to check cable length.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 05:01:58 pm
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on November 24, 2013, 09:13:41 amI have a TP500, which is a simple model with LEDs. I paid $10 for it (used). Seems to work fine, but now I realize that I've never used it on a cable with split pairs... guess I should make one to see if that feature works.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 05:26:30 pm
content: quick search shows the tp500 is supposedto detect split pairs and can be had for about $100 us.http://www.itcelectronics.com/pdf/TESTP500.pdfhttp://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1526&gclid=CKGzn_f2_boCFSTNOgodRUUAJA*eta-no affiliation with the seller, was the first result right on top in my google search

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 06:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on November 24, 2013, 08:41:51 amA few bucks more to skip the optical inspection :-) If you got some experience with LAN wiring the simple continuity tester is good enough. A bad wiring or cable occurs quite rarely. The $10k tester helps you to check if a cable meets Cat5/6/7 and, if not, what the problem is. Things like a too small bending radius or something else can't be detected by the $100 testers. So you think everything's fine but still get tons of FCS errors. And you have to install a new wire anyway. Split pairs are like an LM78xx put in reversed :-)

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 02:31:25 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--I just bought a pair of used Sergeant Crimpers. See below picture. I am not familiar with the brand, but they look to be well enough made to do the job. At $13 with shipping included, they seem like a reasonable risk. I will report back after they arrive, and I have done a few crimps with them."Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake."William Claude Dukenfield - W. C. Fields 1880 - 1946Best RegardsClear Ether

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 07:30:55 am
content: Quote from: SgtRock on November 23, 2013, 09:20:04 amThe cheap cable testers are not worth much either. They are just continuity meters. It is certainly useful to know that all the wires are hooked up, but good network testers measure impedance, crosstalk, attenuation, and reflection. Also they cost > $1000. Not really something you are going to buy for home use. This is one reason premade cables are preferable if possible. For in-wall wiring where that isn't practical, you usually just have to be careful and hope.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 06:56:29 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--I recieved the $9 Sargent RJ45/12 crimpers, see pictures below. These are missing the spring and arm that keeps them open, but they are more than sufficient for my purposes. These are very high quality professional crimpers, but even they do not do a perfect job every time. I have now re-crimped all my wrong and poor crimps, I bought a router switch so I can go beyond 4 taps, and I am running wire to every connection on the property, including my shed workshop. I find I have to re-crimp some joints while others must be cut off and re-crimped. Nonetheless with a little fiddling and inspection, I am able to get a very professional result. I did notice that the round cable was not being held very tightly by the plastic clamp, so started putting a piece of flattened cable behind it, so I now get mechanically sound attachment. See below the labeled pictures of various crimps.--I am using solid RG45 Cat 5e cable, with solid wires, and the crimp-on plugs which have the two sharp points which penetrate the insulation. Should I be using a different crimp-on plug for solid wire, and if so, please give link or name of product, if you remember. Thanks Again."Human judges can show mercy. But against the laws of nature, there is no appeal."Arthur C. Clarke 1917 - 2008Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 07:07:06 pm
content: Yes, you're using the wrong crimps. You don't want to try and punch into a solid wire.Have a search for solid wire crimps, you'll find ones which have two or three prongs which are set to either side of the wire, and ride up inside the insulation instead of attempting to pierce the core.Alternatively, get stranded cable.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 08:01:48 pm
content: Dear Monkeh & AndersAnd:--As usual you are indeed correct. The reason, apparently, that I am having to re-crimp and discard plugs is because the points do not slip to the side, and therefore will not go down, see picture below. I have ordered 100 of the correct plugs for solid wire for $14. The video provided by AndersAnd show exactly the trouble I have been having. I see now, I should have researched this, before jumping in. Nonetheless I have learned a lot, and am having fun, and other than the cheap crimpers which failed, I have not bought anything I do not need. Thanks.Three weeks in the lab will save you a day in the library every time"R. Stanley Williams 1951 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 08:14:06 pm
content: Use standed cable for patch cables, e.g. to connect a PC to a switch port or a wall socket. Use solid cable for fixed installations like between patch panels and wall sockets. Crimping a solid cable (even if you get RJ45 plugs for that) and using it as a patch cable is nonsense. It would be like running solid wire from your mains panel directly into your coffee machine or TV.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 09:11:42 pm
content: Dear Madires:--What you said is indeed correct, though perhaps not as dire as your comparison indicates. The house I am working on is my brother's, and is scheduled for a total rehab in the coming year, so I am not going to invest in wall mount jacks (~$5 each) at the present time, I will just reterminate if a wire breaks.Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.Robert Anson Heinlein 1907 - 1988Best RegardsClear Ether

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:27:37 pm
content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#8P8CQuoteAlso note there's differences between Cat 5 and Cat 6 plugs. Cat 6 wires has a larger diameter than Cat 5 wires, so the Cat 6 wires are in two rows in Cat 6 plugs to make room for all of them.http://fieldcomponents.com/RJ45-C6.htmlhttp://www.accesscomms.com.au/reference/cat5&6plugcomparison.htmQuoteAnd then there's also shielded vs. unshielded plugs and cables, but all the ones shown here are unshielded.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:35:33 pm
content: um, they're wrong. my cat5e plugs are 4 top, 4 bottom offset.they also clamp down near the end point almost like the picture of the cat6 plugs.however, they're clearly indicated for cat5e.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 08:13:29 am
content: There's another crucial detail for long cable runs no one has mentioned. If your cable goes through any conduit that might become waterlogged (and if if goes underground it _will_ get wet, by condensation) you must use a very different type of Cat5/6 cable.The ordinary type for use in buildings has a thin outer sheath of PVC, and the pairs fairly loose inside.Problem is, PVC is semipermeable to water. So water outside the cable gradually diffuses into the spaces inside. This completely changes the impedance of the pairs, and attenuates higher frequencies more. In a nutshell, the cable stops working. I've seen this happen. It took about 6 months from installation to dead.The correct cable for underground cat5/6, consists of a thick polyethylene outer sheath, with the inner space around the pairs fully packed with thick silicone grease. It's pretty much the same construction as underground phone cable, but with different pair twist lengths.The underground cable is thicker overall than standard cat5/6, and can't be terminated in plugs. It's normally terminated to the back of patch panels.It's just called "cat 5 underground" (or 6) by cable suppliers.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 09:10:35 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on December 05, 2013, 08:13:29 amAnd you probably want an organ donors card to pay for it with your arm and your leg.