How a $300,000 Speaker is Made - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 07:25:17 pm
content: OMG

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 07:49:11 pm
content: https://youtu.be/wX65iSZTI7E?t=325I think that is Milspec - Aircraft-Quality - NASA - DIN Standard - Audiophile soldering.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 08:01:47 pm
content: I don't see a problem. It's boutique stuff. It's not intended for people just looking for a good sound, or for bang for buck. If you want a quirky, hand made piece with a story and have money to burn, you buy something like this. They don't seem to make all sorts of extraordinary claims, other than obviously upselling the sound quality of their systems. There's no magic components or ingredients either.It's the same reason people buy a Morgan. It's not practical, not safe and not the fastest. Yet people are queuing to buy a wood framed car.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 08:07:18 pm
content: I think the mechanical/joinery side of things is fine. I have no problem at all with people selling custom made "Artistic" things like these.The price is probably reasonable when you factor in the manhours and the materials. I read it as 30K, not 300K... maybe not so reasonable, but if there are buyers, who wouldn't be a seller then?I think the comedy is when the assembly quality of the board in the video is worse than something you might buy off aliexpress for $1.50

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 08:09:36 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on December 17, 2017, 07:49:11 pmDisregarding the audio waffle for a minute they appear to be offering hand crafted items into which a high degree of skill is invested. That alone is worth something so if they can find a market at $300,000 for a pair of loudspeakers good luck to them. While I find what they are offering faintly ludicrous from a personal perspective I can, at least, have some respect for the carpentry skills and it's not as if they are selling gold plated optical interconnects or directional Ethernet cables.Do their loudspeakerssoundbetter than a $3000 pair - probably not, in fact probably not better than a $1000 pair (which is about where I personally would put the knee in the price vs quality curve) but they have a great aesthetic.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 08:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on December 17, 2017, 08:07:18 pmNah, you simply don't get it. It's all about leaving a precise amount of flux residue at the correct location that does it (ie make you believe Elvis has just entered the building) - they've spent a lot of time and effort perfecting that, you have to use a buthane powered soldering iron too in order to make those top grade compoents justice - no more no less.Seriously though, the woodworking looks really nice!

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:20:35 pm
content: Only, solid wood isn't the best thing for speaker cabinets, for exactly the reason it makes good guitars. The guitar needs resonance to create its sound, the speaker shouldn't resonate because that alters the sound the instrument created. Paradoxically, the cheaponasty materials like chipboard and MDF are the best for speakers because they are less springy and resonant.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:37:32 pm
content: I liked the wood work you can't fault it. Nobody uses solid wood in loudspeaker construction ? back in the 1930s HMV and a lot of other companies made plywood horn speakers for some of the larger cabinet style gramaphones, I would google it but maybe wood and horn in the same sentance might not be appropriate. I know that was childish but seriously MDF would be good for speaker cabinets it's quite dense.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on December 17, 2017, 09:37:32 pmPlywood isn't solid wood.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:50:35 pm
content: QuoteOK true. But hey it's made from solid wood but you're not going to get much bass from a 78 gramaphone.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 10:27:28 pm
content: Powder coated mild steel? Not much good for corrosion resistance unless it is galvanised first.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 10:46:21 pm
content: I think it's ugly, it looks like a Medusa-Mothra hybrid blasted a hipster and turned them into a wooden and metal butterfly! I see the woofer, but do they even have a mid and tweeter? That amp in the back looks nice though.EDIT: Yes, I know it's handmade and at least the case is well made, but it still looks like it's from Ikea to me.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: DrGeoff on December 17, 2017, 10:27:28 pmThese things will be in well heated homes.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on December 17, 2017, 10:46:21 pmThis end of the market typically deals in designs that are typically not for everyone. I guess you don't get to spend your spare $300000 on these

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:48:53 pm
content: 30% - is the cots of the movieand 30% - is labor - watch the movie - everybody works so sloooow...

author: eeviking
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 06:46:33 pm
content: MDF is about the worst wood you can use for speakers in regards to resonance. It's only used be course it's cheap and easy to machine. HDF is a little better and high quality plywood is way better.Of course if you use multiple layers or curved panels and a lot of bracing you can get decent results with MDF.Some also dampen with bitumen etc. but that will only absorb the resonance energy and make the speaker less efficient. If you want to avoid resonance you need something stiff and heavy.A lot of high and manufactures have moved on to composites like epoxy/stone mixes or even thick aluminium billets.Now lets bring out the snake oil and purple smoke

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 12:16:44 am
content: While it seems ridiculous to me, I've seen paintings sell for hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars that I wouldn't have paid $10 for and you can't even do anything with a painting.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 01:20:10 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 12:16:44 amhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609779/What-spectacle-Student-glasses-floor-pretended-art-people-immediately-started-cooing-taking-pictures.htmlQuote

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 01:35:32 am
content: Let's not have this discussion yet again.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 03:00:03 am
content: dollars for electromechanical converters with peculiar transfer functionsi wonder if one day we will have radiation plots of fancy speakers

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 03:06:47 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 01:35:32 am

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:51:58 pm
content: Hah! I'd forgotten about that art museum prank. If there were any hoity-toity art museums around me I'd be extremely tempted to plop some of my own "art" in there and see what happens. I've seen some quite attractive sculptures and paintings but the vast majority of what passes for art is stuff I'd consider garbage. If it's something I could create then IMHO it's not really art. Any idiot who has made it through highschool can slather some paint abstractly on a canvas or weld some scrap together.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:53:43 pm
content: Let's not have this discussion yet again.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:14:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 06:53:43 pmBut it's relevant. These speakers aren't making any audiophool claims, so it comes down to being expensive art.EDIT: Yes, I'm aware I've just opened the floodgates and probably destroyed this thread, but I'm dastardly.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on December 19, 2017, 07:14:55 pmLet's at least discuss the speakers, rather than the same silly modern art discussion that gets rehashed every time. We know some people don't like modern art, we know some people don't understand modern art. So let's avoid doing that dance yet again, rather than having everyone regurgitate their stance on the matter and ending up exactly where we started, but now indignant that others could be so stupid.In regards to the look and build of the speakers: some people will like it, some people won't. Some people have $300000 to spend on speakers, some people don't. Some people will spend $300000 on speakers they like, some people won't.See? Pretty easy. Done.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:30:45 pm
content: The funny thing is if someone has lots of money and doesn't spend it, people rip on them for hoarding wealth. If someone has lots of money and dumps large amounts of it back into the economy buying what others consider to be frivolous and ridiculous, they get ripped on for wasting money. Overpriced stuff like this encourages people with excess wealth to pour some of it back into the economy.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:38:48 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 07:30:45 pmPeople are quick to point fingers, but often don't realize they are regarded the same by people who don't have as much to spend as they do. What you consider normal might seem excessive to another.I can see how people would consider buying water in a bottle, when clean water comes from a tap almost for free is frivolous. Or owning that many sets of clothing or shoes. Or owning two cars. Or travelling abroad each year, or even multiple times.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:09:26 pm
content: the deal-breaker for at home sound reproduction was my revelation of how the recording industry supply chain works.unless recording studios use the same technical standards. at home audio play-back is no better.in most cases the ageing human body is the weakest link in the audio chain.the irony is that many young people go out of there way to destroy their hearing. long before they can afford quality home sound reproduction equipment.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on December 17, 2017, 07:49:11 pmI agree and look at R21_L, a nasty, noisy carbon composition resistor, which shouldn't be part of the audio chain!None of this has anything to do with high audio quality. It's all about art, which is the only real selling point.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 01:52:56 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on December 17, 2017, 09:20:35 pmSave that the bit about guitars is not true (the rest is). The fabled guitar maker Antonio de Torres (1817-1892) famously made a guitar out of papier mache to prove just this point. Any resonances there are, are a product of the shape, not the material. Bob Taylor did a 20th century version of this by making a guitar out of timber from sawing up an old shipping pallet, and even left bits of the nails in the timber for added effect.Guitarmaking is as full of old wives tales about the magical properties of various woods as is audiophoolery about the magical properties of [insert audiophoolery du jour here].

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 02:14:03 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on December 20, 2017, 01:52:56 amExcuse me but I fail to see how second example proves what you said about shape and not material.About first example, you omitted some fact which completely overthrows what you wrote.QuoteDo you see front among parts made of papier mache?

author: Jr460
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 02:21:49 am
content: If you want to talk about guitar sounds and non-wood, then learn about Ovation.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovation_Guitar_CompanySome people hate the sound of them, some people love, but if you have listened to any pop/rock music in the past 40 years, you have heard one at least once.I have to say the older ones with a deeper bowl, before the early 80s, sounded better to my ears.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 08:33:41 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 20, 2017, 02:14:03 amThe bit about Bob Taylor is not intended toproveanything, it's just a little note to add some interesting colour to the story and, if it proves anything, it proves that you don't need fancy hand-selected wood from endangered species, matured for years in the scent of Polynesian virgins to make a good acoustic guitar. Lighten up old chap, not everything in the world is there to be argued about.Anyway, aside from that, not only have composite materials been used for the backs and sides of guitars (see above about Ovations) but the better small guitar makers have been experimenting with carbon fibre and Kevlar composites for guitar tops, with quite some success. The top of a guitar needs to be stiff (which papier mache can be) and elastic (which papier mache is not). And of course Nationals and Dobros have been made with steel tops for the best part of a century.By the way, my credentials in this are that I have actually designed and made acoustic guitars. Not many, and just for fun, not profit, but they've turned out OK and others seem to like the sound.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 08:41:42 am
content: Quote from: Jr460 on December 20, 2017, 02:21:49 amI'm indifferent to the sound, neither loving nor hating it, but what I do dislike about Ovations is that the bowl, if you're sitting down to play, makes the guitar try and writhe out of your lap while you're playing. Every time I've tried to play one I've come close to dropping it.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 08:43:57 am
content: These speakers certainly have a great sound, no doubt about it.They look amazing.They are hand made.There are only few of them, probably hand signed.These speakers are a piece of art.This is why they cost that much.A Picasso or Renoir is just paint on a canvas... A reproduction can be made to look even better, yet has no comparable valueRegards,Vitor