Yet another PayPal rant... this time, it's terminal - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 08:55:02 am
content: So, PayPal have finally restricted my account to the point where I can receive money (funnily enough), but not transfer, spend or otherwise do anything with it, unless I send them copies of personal ID (which I refuse to do). They are not my bank and I don't trust them. The fact that I have verified my bank account and mobile number should be enough for them, but it seems this is not the case any longer. Thankfully I have a $0 balance so it's not really going to impact me too much.So after 12+ years of using PayPal this way, I'm cutting my ties, along with anything that mandates PayPal. My bank account which was linked to my account will be closed (it was set up specifically for PayPal).Now I can't blame them solely. I suspect some regulatory requirements have forced their hand a little bit, but their implementation just sucks. For example, Government services exist where stores/service providers can verify ID of their customers without requesting or storing copies of the personal documents. Those systems usually tie into the relevant road transport authority system which gives the third-party provider a pass/no pass result. The only people who get your personal information is the government, to check against their databases.What sucks though, is PayPal won't let you properly close your account either, without verifying your ID. So if you have your current primary bank account linked, they still have on-going access to it.This practice of holding people's money hostage, not allowing them to unlink accounts or close accounts is unconscionable conduct in my opinion.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 10:01:00 am
content: I never linked my paypal to a bank account. Dangerous proposition that as they set up a DD against it. If you want to fund a paypal account the best thing to do is set up another mule account which can be same name with same address and card and send to the original account using friends and family internal payment.As for ID verification, this is going to be a big thing coming up. The global financial compliance authorities are trying to crack down on people using PP as shell accounts and a black economy.The funny thing? Paypal wouldn't even exist if banks had got their shit together 20 years ago.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 10:34:54 am
content: I recently had my PP account restricted until after they had verified who I am via a linked credit card account. They debited my CC and I had to tell them the transaction ID before the PP account could be debited.Like bd, I wouldn't give them a bank account details.40 years ago I watched a secretary have her bank account drained by an unauthorised debit. The bank acknowledged it was unauthorised, refunded the money, but couldn't prevent it happening three more times! The bank could not determine the source of the debit. Eventually they found it was a scrotty little merchant bank that had mis-entered information.Bd, was your "another mule account" a PP account (i.e. a different PP "login" name) with the same card and address?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 10:54:53 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 01, 2020, 08:55:02 amIt's the tax office. Let's say your paypal is not linked to you, only to your email. The money you recieve on it is not taxed, could be income. The income tax could have brackets. You can also park there money, that could be also subject to taxation.For example in the EU, you need to register now all bank accounts, because they are (supposedly) fighting terrorism.There was a whole shitstorm last year, where every fintech company was required to register IDs and people were losing their access to their money.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 11:14:49 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 01, 2020, 10:34:54 amDifferent email address, different card, same name, same address. I opened up an additional Santander online basic account for it as they issue another card.

author: austfox
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 11:17:54 am
content: The Commonwealth Bank was fined $700 million for breaching anti-money laundering laws. No doubt PayPal want to make sure they are fully compliant with this and other laws by positively identifying all account holders, not just via an email address.They do hold an Australian Financial Services license, ie the Australian subsidary (PayPal Aust Pty Ltd), so no different giving them or another foreign based financial services company such as Amex or HSBC your details.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 06:45:36 pm
content: Quote from: austfox on December 01, 2020, 11:17:54 amNo, I get that, but most consumers (particularly those who sell on ebay) will have some kind of "legitimate" verified source of money linked to PayPal, whether it be a credit card or a bank account. That there should be almost all the ID they require. They don't need copies of my drivers licence or birth certificate.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 07:43:17 pm
content: Credit card and bank accounts aren’t primary ID sources for IDV stuff unfortunately. They’re very leaky. Historically neither had strong validation so any old joe could walk into a bank and out again with fake ID and an account. Up to 30% of accounts out there still hang off stuff like that.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 08:11:59 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 01, 2020, 10:01:00 amTruth!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 08:42:27 pm
content: I don't see the problem. You need to show valid ID to all sorts of entities to prove who you are, every time you buy a beer at a pub you have to show ID here, what's the big deal about showing ID to Paypal?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 09:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2020, 08:42:27 pmI think the only place I've ever shown ID to buy a beer is in the US

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:04:15 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2020, 08:42:27 pmIt's about what PP may do with that information aside from verification, and whether and how they store it.I had to verify my PP account at the beginning of this year, out of the blue after being a regular user for over a decade. I scanned their privacy policies and whatever info they had about the verification process, but was irked to find nothing more than a vague, placatory "we'll handle it responsibly" statement.Begrudgingly went through with it, as I actually urgently needed to make a payment.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:26:02 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2020, 08:42:27 pmHaving someone view your ID is one thing. However storing a copy is an entirely different story particularly when those copies are no longer in the control of the owner for eternity.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 09:50:44 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 01, 2020, 08:55:02 amThat is your problem then. Banking rules force Paypal to have your ID on file. Paypal's customer service may suck big time but they aren't the toy money transfer website they used to be. They probably handle more money than the average national bank of a country.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 10:02:24 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 02, 2020, 09:50:44 amBut the thing is, Paypal isn't a bank although they do hold an Australian Financial Services Licence (same as banks, credit unions, credit providers etc...) and have done since 2007.I still think, regardless of their regulatory requirements, they could have gone about this a lot better, not "give us your ID, we promise to look after it", not to mention they only require ID checks AFTER signing up and using their services.They might not be the "toy" website they used to be, but I still don't trust them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 12:30:01 pm
content: Paypal are technically a payment processor and they have to comply with the same standards as banks.As does the company I work with, which isn't a bank and doesn't handle anyone's money but is in the same sector.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 06:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 02, 2020, 09:50:44 amofficially it is to prevent terrorism and money laundry (isn't it always?) but I can see why the tinfoil types think that alsoso that if the authorities for some reason decides to swing the ban hammer they can be sure to freeze all your assets

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 06:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 02, 2020, 10:02:24 amwhy not? I don't understand

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 06:55:15 pm
content: It’s fair. I don’t trust them either. But they are a necessary inconvenience.Honestly though if you knew what I know about financial services technology and what a shit show it is you’d probably sell everything, buy gold and dig yourself into a bunker. PayPal are way down the list of things that scare the shit out of me.My favourite event was my bank writing to me to ask for a copy of my mortgage papers that they had lost. In retrospect I should have said nothing and cancelled the direct debit

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 07:30:24 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 02, 2020, 06:55:15 pmyes, but why?My "Hype virtual card" required me to upload my ID to them.What's different from Paypal? Seriously, I don't understand your points.At the phone, when I asked they why they need my ID, the replied that it's an European directive to prevent money laundering.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:11:53 pm
content: Mostly because I run a couple of eBay accounts and they require PayPal accounts to receive funds. Their policy allows disputed amounts to be clawed back.There a theory which is “tell, don’t ask” which suggests that only you should be able to operations with arbitrary risk. That’s the problem.

author: vk4ffab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:45:32 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 02, 2020, 10:02:24 amThe question is, is this lack of trust a rational fear to have. Has paypal had large data breaches? Are paypal selling on data to other entities? Are they stealing peoples money? I think offering them a certain level of trust based on their conduct and security is a rational thing to do, to not trust them outright does not seem like a rational fear to have at all.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:55:48 pm
content: Yes to all of those including data breaches. My only consolation is I live a short walk from PayPal’s UK office so I can actually go there and hand deliver my own excrement if I choose to. It’s also far enough from the police station to make a quick getaway down the river.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 09:00:07 pm
content: If you are super paranoid: scan in your ID at a low resolution, and make some non-obvious modification to it. Or write on the image "for paypal".

author: vk4ffab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 09:15:38 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 02, 2020, 08:55:48 pmVisa and Mastercard have had more peoples data stolen than Paypal have, Ebay lost 150milion users data, etc etc and we all continue to use them. The question is one of rational fear, not whether they have had data breaches. Most of what gets reported of data breaches for paypal are hacks that can work in very limited circumstances, not the loss of millions of users data. I note that the OP is not worried about ebay, and yet its lost more data than paypal ever has. Rational fear and precaution is fine, like the post above this one, I watermarked my ID so that it could not be used if ever stolen and I redacted parts of it to make it further unusable. If a hacker wants to reconstruct my ID then more power to them, they deserve to win.

author: Larryc001
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 10:23:20 pm
content: PayPal’s biggest concern is obviously fraud. That is why they have so many fussy restrictions. I remember reading the whole story years ago, but I haven’t been able to find it again. I do remember them saying that before they started implementing fraud control programs they were losing 2 million dollars a day. The document I did find tells some of the story.https://fin.plaid.com/articles/paypals-history-of-fighting-fraud/

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 10:15:53 am
content: So what's the alternative?Google-Pay?Apple-Pay?Yandex-Pay?...?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 10:22:21 am
content: Quote from: Larryc001 on December 02, 2020, 10:23:20 pmSure, I can understand that. But why accept payments into someone's account, but then hold them "ransom" before they can do anything with it. I would prefer payments to bounce.