When might we see more options for automotive thermal? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Dark Volter
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 01:57:53 am
content: So, I had a Flir Pathfindir II, but it was damaged in an unrelated to animals/pedestrian incident, and as I prepare to buy another and also see about repairing the one I have ( - I dislike how the prices still have not come down since I got one a year ago. These cameras are still ... Overpriced.My other camera, the Therm App Hz, hasn't... really come down, although one can find freaks for it a tiny bit cheaper. But then again, considering they started out at $5000 before coming down to $1600 technically... But the PF has never come down.I am aware of the Seek Automotive camera, that strangely seems only black hot , that is equal to the PF2 spec wise but $1000, but they have not released them for sale yet, almost a year later.Flir is working on autonomous solutions with the Boson, but there's nothing aside from the PF2,And Adasky is looking good with theirs being 640X480, but they are also still in development.And GuideNDriver actually is impressive theoretically, for a direct PF2 competitor, but at 3500......ughIs there any hope near term for automotive night vision coming down in price?? It seems to me it's just IP-69 bodies and the recognition software that separate the automotive thermals from the thermapps and seek compacts tech wise.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 09:56:44 am
content: There are a number of add-on automotive cameras available from Chinese suppliers - a search on alibaba.com, made-in-china.com or any of the other similar sites will yield many results. The 400x300 camera systems look interesting, as they're a reasonable compromise between 320x240 and 640x480.Do be careful of what you look at, though - I found one phone dongle-style "Full HD Mini Thermal Camera" for about $20. A quick glance at the photo showed that the vendor didn't understand the difference between near-IR and thermal IR: the giveaway was the ring of IR LEDS around the lens!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 12:36:14 pm
content: Also, the biggest trick in the Chinese sellers book...... display resolution !A thermal camera can have a very low resolution sensor, such as 47x47 pixels, that are interpolated up to any displays resolution the manufacturer desires. True microbolometer resolution is the specification that means something. eBay is littered with cheap thermal cameras that use low resolution imaging sensors interpolated up to higher resolutions. With new thermal camera making cameras, if it looks to good to be true, it very likely is. The used camera market is very different though as there are bargains to be had.Back to mobile platform thermal imaging cameras..... the significant increase in the availability of decent Drones has lead to more compact thermal cameras for drone use. Some are more weather resistant than others. Such cameras may be adapted for use on vehicles with some simple bracketry, a few wires and a LCD monitor. One problem is frame rate. In my opinion a vehicle thermal imaging camera should operate at a minimum of 25fps. Anything lower is sub optimal. A 60fps refresh rate is ideal but 30fps is fine for most applications. Sadly such frame rates combined with decent resolution of, say, 320 x 240 pixels, makes these cameras Dual Use technology. As such various rules and regulations apply. Such regulatory constraints tend to drive manufacturers towards the less tightly regulated 9fps refresh rates that may be more easily shipped around the World. This increases their potential customer base and sales.Decent quality thermal cameras for use on vehicles are available to those meeting the regulatory requirements and with deep pockets ! A vehicle camera needs to be water proof, not water resistant, it also requires a heated lens protection window for all year usage in potentially cold climates. This makes these cameras different to a standard 'building block' core like the TAU. Different means expensive ! The Tau is more than capable of the imaging task but would need to be mounted in a suitable enclosure to protect it and its lens from harm.We are likely to see cheaper thermal cameras for drones and these will likely be more affordable than specialist cameras for cars etc. There will be a need for adaption to car use but such is not a great challenge for many hobbyists. Just remember, true resolution and frame rate is very important.Fraser

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 01:30:29 pm
content: Resolution... yes, thereby hangs a tale.I have developed an uncooled thermal camera with 3840×2160 display resolution and approx −200 to +1350°C measuring range (interpolated from a Type K thermocouple). Available now, just US$9,999 (limited time offer).An 7680 x 4320 display version is in development

author: bap2703
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 04:39:31 pm
content: Quote from: Ultrapurple on November 15, 2018, 01:30:29 pmA real one would only provide a price on PM

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 06:12:45 pm
content: Yeah,the 7680 x 4320 display version is price by PM only. The one with 3840×2160 display resolution is a commodity item now.Think of a cross between a Therm-App camera and a 32" UHD TV, with a little lack box that turns the thermocouple into mixed sync & blanking plus a grey level that depends on the thermocouple temperature. Then one of those cheap PAL > HDMI adapters makes it all nice & legal.

author: mtoptronics
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 07, 2018, 03:32:22 am
content: hello, I can sell you Guide N-driver $1500 if you need. Brand new, three years warranty.