After graduation when is it too late to change career direction as an EE - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: matrixofdynamism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 06:21:29 pm
content: After graduation when is it too late to change career direction as an electronic engineer?After graduation there are a multitude of paths that a person can take, digital, analogue design, embedded systems, communications, applications, or even non-engineering or non-electronics related career path.Assuming that a person starts within electronics when does it become too late to make a career transition to another electronics related field? e.g a person starts with FPGAs writing HDL and testbenches but than decides to move into Embedded Systems in a new separate job writing C language or software related to RTOS and DSP which can also be categorized as two other different type of fields that people can specialize in? Or maybe a person just wants to become purely software in a new job since he/she has skills in C or maybe even C++ and decides this is for them, or maybe even wants to move in analogue. You get the idea.If a person starts in one direction but than isfirmlyconvinced of making a transition, when is it too late? What should a person do under such circumstances, when is it too late? Employers usually want "fresh graduates", but what if a person has been in the field for 2, 3 or even 4 years already with a degree? The idea is that things can happen in lives of people that may make them make a certain choice at a given time which is not ideal in their perception but they must do so, which they may feel wanting to change later when things are better. Or sometimes people may end up making the wrong choice to begin with (assuming it has happened only once). What should such a person do?>>> In summary, if a person graduated 2-4 years ago and now wants to move into a different type of job within electronic engineering at the same place as a new graduate would, what should does one need to do and what hurdles exist in such circumstances?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 07:01:15 pm
content: Graduates with a few years' experience are quite sought-after, so don't worry about that.Just bear in mind that you'll need to either have experience in the field you're aiming to enter, or to apply for jobs which don't require any. The latter will be junior positions, so expect to take a step back down the career ladder - but it'll be worth it in the long run.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 07:14:58 pm
content: Firstly, it's never too late to change. Two important rules are:1. Learn everything. Digital, analogue design, embedded systems, communications, applications, ... Why narrow it down? Be like a sponge, learn everything you can about everything and anything that may be relevant to your job. Seek out training courses, in-house and external. Apply to go on them. Read books. Hit Google. Study in your own time. It's called Continuing Professional Development. The more you know, the more useful you are.2. Take small steps. In one job move, you can't leap from one specialist field to another just like that. You need to be looking out for ways to adjust your role or your job moves so you get a little more of what you want to do and a little bit less of what doesn't interest you in every move.Always keep in mind that you are not "a digital systems designer" or "an analog systems designer" or "an embedded systems designer". You are an Electrical Engineer. Don't get pigeonholed by others. Don't limit yourself.

author: matrixofdynamism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 07:41:57 pm
content: All this is well and good, but won't the potential employer wonder like, hmm why do you want to make this transition, why did you not do this early? How does one deal with that?Besides this, is it wise to do some courses before we apply job that will give us some more advanced skills e.g learn RTOS and Linux before we go for embedded systems job or learn more about PCIe, STA, other MGBT and their protocols e.t.c before we apply for ASIC or FPGA position? I mean we know what we really want to do, I think it will benefit if we learn some of it before hand. Besides, universities do not teach some things.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 07:59:51 pm
content: What kind of answer do you seek? Something like "It is too late 5.134 years after graduation"? Sorry, won't happen.The process is not predictable, not the least because it partly involves luck. Luck to be at the right time and place with the right skills, when the right demand comes up, meeting the right HR person, happening to have the right buzzwords in your CV.

author: matrixofdynamism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 08:17:22 pm
content: What I meant to say in at that time was, how does job search differ if a person has been in another field for some time and wants to gotothe same positionas a graduate while having some years of experience in electronic engineering but not precisely what the new job is about?Correction:What I meant to say is at that time was, how does job search differ if a person has been in another field for some time and wants togoto a new position of graduate/entry leveldoing something that does not form part of the job that one is doing at present, while having some years of experience in electronic engineering but not precisely what the new job is about?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 08:25:21 pm
content: Quote from: matrixofdynamism on March 23, 2014, 07:41:57 pmGosh, what country are you in? You are writing and thinking like a technician, not like an engineer. Until you understand what it is to be an engineer, you are going to be forever doomed to agonizing like this.Here's a hint: you are talking about skills and technologies as if they define your role and your job. They don't. Skills and technologies are like reading, writing and arithmetic. They are things that you need to know how to do in support of your job, but they should be like balls you can juggle, not like a fence keeping you in one place.For heaven's sake, why haven't you learned about RTOS and Linux and ASICs and FPGAs and all the associated tools already? Do they interest you or not? Also, what possesses you to imagine that universities should teach you these things? That's not what universities are for.You seem to have taken your mind and enclosed it in a tiny little box and made a prison for yourself. Reading your comments here is enough to cause despair and exasperation. Wake up and understand what it is to be an engineer!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 08:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: matrixofdynamism on March 23, 2014, 08:17:22 pmWhy on earth would you apply for a graduate position if you already have 3-4 years of industry experience? You should be moving up, not down, forwards, not backwards. Capitalize on that experience! Apply for jobs where 3-4 years of experience is needed and helpful.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 08:48:05 pm
content: As others have said, it is never too late to change direction but it isn't always easy.I started out in research in GaAs analogue microwave integrated circuit research. I moved from test & layout to circuit design to device physics and then spent a year working on radar systems and tracking in a small start-up before going back to device physics to found a small software/research company with a couple of colleagues.Then much later, when I was 45 I went back to University to switch to computer science doing a postgraduate diploma and then a PhD.Speaking from personal experience, I think until you're about 30 it is very easy to switch and change if you have a good engineering background. In your 40s it is a lot more difficult because you have lots of experience but if it is not in the right field then employers are going to go for a young engineer in their 20s who they consider more flexible and cheaper. Even though you're willing to take a lower salary and demonstrate that you're still technologically up-to-date there is still a tendency for potential employers to think that you're just biding time waiting for another opportunity.So I'd say don't worry about getting stuck for at least ten years after graduating but do try and get as flexible experience as possible. If you find that your experience is getting a bit narrow then try and expand it where you are - be proactive, offer to help other members of the team or at least show an interest in what they do.

author: matrixofdynamism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 08:58:54 pm
content: Look I have learnt about FPGAs and VHDL and C and what an RTOS is (though not used it). This was more of a general question. What I meant to say is that e.g in Embedded Systems job people often need experience in Linux and RTOS and perhaps knowledge of architectures of different processors e.g ARM, x86 and DSPs. In the domain of FPGAs nowdays where people do high speed design people often need experience in high speed design paradigm which is related to MGBT and DDR memories, and also STA. We do not learn all these things in the University, we may get an introduction to FPGAs and do a project using HDL though, we also do not learn (usually) learn Linux and RTOS programming in the average University course. By RTOS programming I mean understanding the RTOS paradigm and how a program is written using say FreeRTOS or uC OS-II.If we wish to move into a career path doing these things from one where one does not do them for a living (which is what my question is about), than perhaps it will be good to do a course in them first and than apply for jobs, after all these high level, specialized things are not taught at the university level anyway. Well perhaps a course with some tinkering on one's own to show interest just to be ahead of the other engineers that are applying for that entry level position.As for why a person would want to move back after 4-5 years, my main question gives the answer to that. When I said graduate position I meant entry level position, I consider both to be synonymous. Are they not?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 10:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: matrixofdynamism on March 23, 2014, 06:21:29 pmNever.QuoteApply for the job. It's never too late.If you don't have the skills for the job you want, get them.QuoteOnly for graduate jobs that pay bugger-all.Why do you want a graduate job if you have experience?If you want to move into a different field, then takes side steps to lead you there, but don't go back to looking at graduate jobs.

author: matrixofdynamism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2014, 10:39:07 pm
content: hmm so the final question would be, are graduate jobs now what we would call as "entry level jobs"?Are graduate jobs open to pure graduates only?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2014, 12:58:41 am
content: Since you sent me a PM, I'll have another go at responding.But you need to read what people write in your thread. You seem to be ignoring whatever people say.First: You should not be applying for entry level jobs if you already have 4-5 years of industry experience. That would be foolish. You can't go back to first grade once you have reached fifth grade. You've got to build on the experience you already have and take it to new places. Onward and upward.Second: I said you should not typecast yourself. Learn as much as you can, even if it is not directly related to the particular job you have now. Engineering is broad, not narrow. Yet still you ask if you should learn things before trying to get a job that needs that knowledge? Yes! Of course! Isn't that obvious?Third: I said it is not the job of universities to teach you specific technical skills. Yet still you seem to get hung up on that. It is your responsibility to learn any skill that may be useful to you. Don't wait to be taught. Go learn!Much of this thread seems to be foundering on the rocks of cultural issues. You seem to come from a different culture than America/Europe/Australia. Maybe that is why these answers don't make sense to you? If so, you need to find people to ask in your own culture, where things are perhaps different.