How do you search for small SMD parts lost to floor, carpet, or working mess? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 07:58:21 am
content: No doubt, everyone who ever hand-soldered small SMD parts someday encounters oops-it-just-flew-away-to-nowhere situation.It turns out that a sufficiently strong neodymium magnet that fits in hand is perfectly capable of recapturing SMD parts like 0402-1206 resistors or capacitors.Do you just cut off next piece of tape or do you try to get these small goners back?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 08:23:35 am
content: i get a desk lamp, put it close to the floor, and shine it horizontally.You can usually catch reflections of things on the carpet much easier that way.However its not worth looking for SMD resistors when they're $0.0003 eachUnless they're 0.01% or something, but even then how can you be sure the resistor you found was the one you dropped

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 09:39:40 am
content: Quote from: Psi on September 13, 2013, 08:23:35 amTrue. Digging in resistor box for a new part or trying to get the damn thing back: the faster way wins.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 09:45:55 am
content: Unless you're trying to finish that project and that resistor was the last of that particular value you have in stock. Spending half an hour digging through all the surface mount parts on the floor beats waiting for the next Digikey delivery in that case.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 09:54:41 am
content: Obviously if you always pick them up there will only be one on the floor to find.It can help you when you look for that 0.1% or last part.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 09:56:32 am
content: You're assuming i don't come into your house while you sleep and scatter random SMD components on the floor.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 10:19:51 am
content: Even if you always pick them up then you will still find at least a dozen other parts before finding the one you were searching for (or giving up searching). I guess you should just go down to 0201, then you won't find any regardless.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 10:53:48 am
content: if horizontal torch light doesnt work. sweep the floor with broom or vacuum (depending on floor type) just as normally routine lab cleaning. put all dust in one pile, you'll find something there. actually its one of my routine during normal cleaning, i'll never know what my kids dropped on the floor i only realized that i missed it when its long gone and i'm in deep need for that part.

author: WhiteWolf
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 10:55:01 am
content: At my last work we didn't even bother to find those smd components if the fell down on the floor. The floor where I sat we had a carpet on the floor which made it impossible to find those smd components..At home I use a bright flashlight so I can see the contrast or shadow off them but if they are smaller than 0805 then I just taking a quick swap with my hand and if I can't find the smd component by that I just take a new one. I'm not wasting to much time on finding them.

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 11:07:26 am
content: Reqular brooming, then when I drop something valuable (like high value small COG cap), I brrom again and don't have too much dust to go through.

author: karlmag
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 11:34:21 am
content: My first thoughts are;- Don't have carpets on floors you do that kind of work on (or any floor for that matter).- Vacuum cleaner.The latter might be incompatible with the "last part/expensive part" problem.Though, I guess you would want to have a somewhat clean floor even without a carpet to be able to find lost parts.Best way to find parts that have pointy legs on them; go barefoot. Murphy will nearly always make sure you'll step om them. :-P

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 11:45:56 am
content: Maybe put a nylon stocking over the vacuum.

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 11:58:58 am
content: Quote from: karlmag on September 13, 2013, 11:34:21 amYou want ESD floor mat (and an ESD chair) where you do SMD work. (A non-ESD chair, non-ESD floor, roll chair a couple of meters to the desk: I generated more charge than our meter was able to show (>100kV)!)

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 12:01:01 pm
content: If it's cheap ==> neeeeext.Otherwise, get the biggest lamp that's still convenient and search. Obviously you already made sure you are not anywhere near a carpet.

author: WhiteWolf
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 12:51:19 pm
content: Well the carpet wasn't just a ordinary carpet, it's made for lowering down the sound noise in the room and is ESD proof.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 12:59:50 pm
content: Since it's Friday we should be able to come up with some more creative solutions. The US Navy got dolphins for minesweeping. We could train some cockroaches. Or a more EE-ish solution would be to build tiny robots with a firmware supporting swarm intelligence. They could also sort your SMD stuff :-)

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 01:31:19 pm
content: One word : lintrollerOr double sided sticky tape on an empty toilet roll.But, the cost of resistors and caps is so low, that, if you even stop a fraction of a second to look down and think' damn, where did it go', you just doubled your loss (cost of the compinent + cost of the time looking down and thinking 'where did it go')If you actually put the soldering iron away to get down on the floor and start looking the cost explodes exponentially !The same is true for : i took. A few caps out of the trays, populated the board and there is 3 still on the bench. Im gonna put em back .There is the cost of putting em back,And the cost of potentially putting the wrong value in , mixim them and spending hours figuering out a few months later why something doesnt work right....We have a policy at work: any part dropped or left over on a bench after you are done gets left behind. Take the rules and sweep em off the bench. The cleaning people that come at night sweep everything away.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 01:42:29 pm
content: The easiest way to find any metal object on the floor is to take your shoes off and walk around barefoot. The soles of your feet will tell you when you've found the part.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 02:21:18 pm
content: How do I find lost SMD parts?

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 02:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 13, 2013, 01:31:19 pmPersonally in my case the cost is multiplied anyway, firstly and mainly the time cost. When a part is lost I have to find another one in stock which is as slow as looking for the one that's gone. But I'm not doing commercial volumes, so it doesn't matter. I'm assembling devices from 'kits' prepared from stock with exact number of parts.Quote from: free_electron on September 13, 2013, 01:31:19 pmGood practiceI put all unused parts back to labeled zip-locks where they came from in a 'kit', never had an issue with stray parts on my desk.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 02:45:28 pm
content: Pushing chip caps round an RF amplifier PCB with a toothpick to adjust the tuning is such a joy!Just as you have tweaked the response curve to your liking,the toothpick slips & the cap flies off the board & disappears.You usually only have a few of each value,so you end up having to fit two smaller ones,so effectively doing it all over again,only to have another one flip off!Rinse & repeat!

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 03:14:17 pm
content: If I drop something (even an ultra-cheap resistor), I still spend up to 15 minutes looking for it before giving up (horizontal lamp at a glancing angle works well).I have two small dogs who will surely find and eat anything I leave, so it's not a matter of cost.

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 03:23:53 pm
content: No! No! No! You spend hundreds of dollars building a little cleaning smart-bot to find and pick up the part for you! Scheeeesch. And ROMBAs don't count.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 03:48:23 pm
content: Just pin an old sheet to your bench which you then tuck in around your waist, anything falls while you are working lands onto that and is easily findable.Learnt this when I first started as a Horologist (watch maker) we had wash leather fixed to the workbench. Don't want to keep scratching about on the floor for for balance staffs and hair springs etc.

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 04:08:41 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on September 13, 2013, 03:48:23 pmBest suggestion so far. What's "wash leather" ?

author: fluxcapacitor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 04:19:54 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on September 13, 2013, 04:08:41 pmhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-5sq-ft-GENUINE-SHEEPSKIN-CHAMOIS-LEATHER-WASH-LEATHER-SHAMMY-/320821638766

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2013, 09:17:49 am
content: Or build an anti gravity device for under your desk, if the part falls off the desk it floats around.Anyway I think most ideas have been given and for me I also take the next part esp. with SMD C's and R's.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2013, 11:42:45 am
content: I usually buy excess components so when one flies away I just pick a new one. Most of them are cheap anyway.

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 10:55:35 am
content: Well, eventually I came up with rearranging the assembly process by using a cache of frequently used components right at the desk. Small SMDs in tape are transferred into the cache in 10-50pcs portions and those are immediately considered as used/lost to the main storage even if they are still available in the cache. This introduces some tolerance to accidental component losses during the assembly process and allows for faster assembly kit preparation since the component cache in refilled independently and asynchronously.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 11:15:39 am
content: QuoteMake sure they don't get there.If they do, don't search for them - it is not worth your time.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 11:35:05 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on June 13, 2014, 11:15:39 amIt is worth if you have only one. One time I searched 01005 resistor which flown away while I was repairing a mobile phone. About 1.5 hours passed just to find that bastard on my desk. Size of the dust particle, almost can't distinguish them.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 08:01:29 pm
content: I just buy em in reels of 4000. They're dirt cheap anyways. Doesn't matter a rats ass if one falls. For DIP conponents, such as ICs, take off your shoes and go for a lab tour. When the 4 letter epletive escapes your mouth, you know you;ve found it.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 12:12:01 am
content: Dear Unixon:--Consider putting a breadboard edge on your bench ala Norm Abram. You would take a piece of 3/8" to 1/2" lath and make a rabbit on the top edge, so that when it is installed, you are left with a small groove at the edge to catch the smalluns. If you install it just a tad high, it will help reduce roll-offs. If you are installing anti-static matting at the same time, it may be tucked under the breadboard edge. I have this planned for my bench, but I am waiting for my brother to do a complete rehab on the structure, whenever he and his contractor can break loose from other jobs."I see, Its a profit deal"Steve Martin 1945 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 07:08:45 am
content: due to buying one of those levitating spinner toys a decade back and then proceeding to loose the top i have a nice wide and strong magnet that i just sweep over the capret and i've even had qpf's stick to it,

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 07:42:58 am
content: Quote from: echen1024 on June 13, 2014, 08:01:29 pmthat's a hell of a great method !the best is the detection of the part - unfortunately works only with DIPs in dead-bug position

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 12:34:29 pm
content: Hate it when I loose them. But I never look for them. ...Untill 2 weeks ago.Had a RF amp in a radio that was suspect. So like I have done for the last decade was grab 2 small irons and remove the amp. The damn little spec flew accross the bench and landed on the floor. No problem right?5 US bucks each!I now have the proper tool to remove SMD components. Bought a X-Tronic 4040 hot air station and a bunch of tweezers.

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 12:43:50 pm
content: Looks like nobody is reading any posts but the first one.There was an issue with lost components, but now it is mostly solved by having a small cache of frequently used components at the desk.Yes, I buy them in tape from 100pcs to 10000pcs, typically it's 300pcs or 500pcs, so the price is not an issue.But well, they take a lot of place altogether, so I can't hold all of them at the desk, just small cache of about 10-50pcs.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 02:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on June 14, 2014, 07:42:58 amAfter you pull of 40 pin dip package from your leg, you will remember be careful not to drop things to floor again... Been there, done that...

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 05:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: lapm on June 14, 2014, 02:56:07 pmbeen there toonot a dip 40, but any size is sufficient in this case

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 05:18:04 pm
content: If you really need to find a small part that fell in carpet, put a piece of nylon mesh (got pantyhose?) over a vacuum cleaner nozzle.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 05:26:59 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on June 14, 2014, 05:18:04 pmthat's a great idea ! i assume any fabric would do the job. anyways thanks for the great idea !

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 05:30:01 pm
content: Side brazed ceramics have both sharper harder pins and are going to penetrate deeper as the pins are parallel so you get all in together with no chance of some bending.With the vacuum cleaner you do need a very fine mesh, nylon stockings are the best, and if you do not have any just go out and buy the cheapest pair on sale. then use a heated wire to cut a leg off so that it will not unravel so much.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2014, 08:03:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 13, 2014, 11:35:05 amSo it's just as likely your phone was successfully repaired with a tiny speck of bran muffin.Quote from: rob77 on June 14, 2014, 05:26:59 pmNope, specifically pantyhose. It's a fabric specifically engineered to keep small parts out. Badum-tish!

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2014, 08:22:42 pm
content: I deploy my special ops hamster.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 12:20:52 am
content: A handkerchief and a cordless dustbuster, fast and quick and always nearby.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 12:25:53 am
content: Quote from: Psi on September 13, 2013, 09:56:32 amEE torture: a bin full of 1000 0603 10k resistors, and a single 0.01% precision 0603 resistor mixed in, when that resistor is critically needed to finish a project...

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 01:32:38 am
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on June 18, 2014, 12:25:53 amthen fire-up your ohm meter with the tweezers probe a find one which fit's your needed toleranceit's not uncommon or rare to find a spot-on resistor within a thousand of 1% ones(and you don't even have to find your original 0.01% one).

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 01:46:17 am
content: i found if I walk barefooted on a rug I will find just about anything that is sharp.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 03:33:51 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on June 18, 2014, 01:32:38 amBut that just gives you the tolerance of your tweezers, which could be 0.2%-1% depending on how expensive they were.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 03:43:07 am
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on June 18, 2014, 03:33:51 amsorry , but my tweezers probe got a constant resistance - probably you got one with random resistancebut mine is constant 0.3 ohm - and one can easily subtract that from the read-out.and following your logic... what tolerance you got on your regular probes ?

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 03:55:46 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on June 18, 2014, 01:32:38 amAnd yes you can if the temp co and voltage rating is also the same/close enough, (or not critical).

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 04:06:09 am
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on June 18, 2014, 03:55:46 amat hobbyist level it's never criticalif it's not at hobbyist level then the scenario of dropping 0.01% SMD resistor to a BOX of 1000 other SMD resistors is just a fictionwho the hell would remove 1000 parts from a reel and store them in a box ?(ok. i'm doing it - removing 10s or 100 of parts and store them in boxes, but i'm a hobbyist)

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2014, 11:42:52 pm
content: He did say EE torture not hobbyist torture.Also don't tell the guys over at the LTZ1000 thread its not critical !!, of course they would never drop a 0.01% resistor 'period'.And true if you had such a resistor YOU would be more careful.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 04:15:14 am
content: Well, let's make a more unambiguous one. You have a device using 0201 passives and lots of BGAs, all RoHS, and you have to repair it by hand or wait a month for a replacement!And the schematic was made in Eagle and is notated in Chinese moon runes.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 06:37:55 am
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on June 19, 2014, 04:15:14 amrelax... take it easy... wait the 1 month for replacementin the meantime practice bga re-balling on the board - probably you'll fix it by re-balling

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 10:16:16 am
content: A good trick is to put your head down at carpet level and scan horizontally. 0201 resistors are very hard to find, especially in 1970's shag pile carpet. Best to work on a smooth floor for electronics.Usually they bounce to the most unreachable place 80% of the time and will land camouflage side up so you cannot see it 80% of the time. Murphy happens.An ex-colleague lost two fingers with a drop saw accident at home a few years ago. He could not find one anywhere and was rushed to hospital anyway. The missing finger was never found - the conclusion was the dog had eaten it.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2014, 04:07:35 am
content: i have always wondered in the situation of multiple fingers being cut off, and one goes missing, do you get to pick what order they get reattached,