Comparing the 'Canadian' LCR tweezer 'manufacturers' - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 01:19:50 am
content: I blame Tautech for this threadI am looking for a better LCR meter and he suggested I consider a set of Tweezers (he has a set of ST3's like Dave reviewed years ago).So some site searching here and online and up pops some good options but the three that stand out as better than most are all 'allegedly' based in Ontario in CanadaListed in no particular order.https://www.lcrresearch.com/Founded in 2014 AFTER Daves review of the ST3's so clearly not the first. Spin off ex partner/staff or cloned and modded?http://www.smarttweezers.com/Home of the ST3's and now ST5 series. Seems to be the original on face value.http://www.siborg.com/sells 'Smart Tweezers' plus some others and is maybe their software developer or even parent company of Smart Tweezers?This page is peculiar as it skips the ST3's entirely but claims origins back to 2000?http://www.siborg.com/smarttweezers/ST_Canada_2.htmSomeone or two someones seem to be telling not the entire truth. Anyone out there know any more without the speculation and in particular the 'location' of LCR Research?EDITED the Title as we are closer to sorting out who is who in the Zoo and I have a top of the range sample from each arriving to test.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 03:07:14 am
content: Thanks a little closer to the truthThe 100kHz is one of the clear benefits providing it is correct. I did run across another thread here casting some doubt on it but with no actual proof or testing. LCR Research has also got the Elite 2 version with voltage protection on the inputs too but then loses some accuracy and the 100kHz which might filter into the other models in time.The Bluetooth version of the ST5-S looks nicer than trailing a lead for logging but the 10kHz as a maximum is not ideal.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 04:16:47 am
content: I have been looking at Bench meters for a while but the secondhand market is fairly limited in my budget ($4-500 USD) and I really wanted pc interface software of some sort. To get much improvement over say the DE-5000 handheld was a little tough too in particular when you factor in freighting heavy lumps halfway around the world.I am leaning toward the LCR Research Pro + but there is surprisingly little independent information on it. About the best is the Amazon customer reviewshttps://www.amazon.com/LCR-Research-Pro1-Ultra-Precise/dp/B072L9SV9L#customerReviewsAnything is going to measure inductance better than my current $7 Arduino too

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 09:36:02 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on December 26, 2018, 01:19:50 amGuilty as charged.While these HH tweezers aren’t the bees knees for everyone I find a set one of my highly valued bits of kit.Previous to getting my ST3 I borrowed an old school LCR bridge and spent ages measuring a box of assorted inductors and bagging them into same values. On getting the ST3 of course they had to be checked against any component on hand, none could be considered a ‘standard’ and the results gave me confidence in ST3 to the extent even more than a decade later it’s still my ‘goto’ component measurement tool.Low single digit pF,nF and milli ohm measurement is of little interest to me for the bit of repair work I do even though I use tweezers mostly on TH stuff.When I bought mine I was just starting a bit of SMD prototyping using tiny inductors some of which were ‘home rolled’ and along with a need to measure unmarked SMD caps, these were my primary needs, however current usage is ‘whatever’ the legs can be stretched onto !In a weak moment after some years of ST3 I grabbed a set of cheap Mastec’s and while they were okay, having owned a premium product for a few years the Mastec tweezers were given to another that might find them more useful as they certainly didn’t challenge the ST3.As blueskull has outlined, the degree of ‘precision’ might not be adequate for some users however the convenience and speed of usage leaves all other tools in its wake and the best bit; one less set of test leads on the bench.Sure, you could use SMD tweezers on your DMM but I’ve never seen another auto ranging, auto sense LRC meter let alone auto ESR measurements when measuring a cap.I’ve said it before and now again, I’d replace mine in an instant.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 10:09:44 am
content: I just bought an LCR Pro1.Like Tautech said, they are HANDY... Just grab them, click, and touch component..Like Blueskull said for STS5, they are sometimes forgetting settings. Not sure it's not just me not knowing how to use them yet.Menus are a bit complicated for such a small device with three buttons.. But you get used to it soon.Tweezer tips move a bit, not sure if it's worse or better than STS5.For low R values, takes a bit effort to fiddle to get a good contact. like with any probes on sub Ohm resistances.It is not metrology grade instrument, but should measure better than handheld without Kelvin tweezers.Pro1 has USB, and there is a software for PC. Took a quick look, seems a bit fiddly and not really user friendly. There are good ideas in it, but not really developed to the full potential.All in all, it will be used a lot here.We'll see in few months, how well it holds up.Regards,

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 11:02:07 pm
content: Seems like I may have both the mentioned manufacturers offerings coming.I stole a set of STS-5's (Bluetooth version) new in packaging off evilbay a few minutes ago that will land here for under $100USD while you lot were still busy digesting Christmas LunchYesterday I got an email from Chris at LCR Research and am waiting to hear back from him with a final shipped price on a set of Pro Pluses with the USB isolater.Should make for an interesting comparison

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 11:28:18 pm
content: QuoteMe too.Main point was the amplitude of the measuring frequency output.My former LCR MeterAtlas LCR40offers an amplitude of 0,9Vrms.For many coils it´s too less for proper measuring, only small SMD inductives could be measuring proper with it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 11:40:24 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on December 26, 2018, 11:02:07 pmCongrats bean, you’ll get to love the things.One thing I haven’t mentioned is how convenient they are for checking diodes as they return the polarity on the display but you still get the odd in-circuit ‘SHORT’ result and maybe need to lift a leg to get a correct test.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 02:51:23 am
content: Deal done on the LCR Research Pro Plus's. Canada Post SUX differential on airfreight between Tracked ($45 USD)and untracked ($17) for the same parcelThere is some information from Chris about benefits of the LCR Research over other offerings in the market but I will put them to the test when I have both available. This is On Topic as to clarity of the question I posed initially "Our company is an independent company that designed our products by ourselves. We own 100% of our technologies and IPs that are related to our products."Most important feature of both of them is I can make the screens work for us Lefties the right way up

author: kahuna0k
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 07:32:39 am
content: Looking at the contact address for LCR ResearchLCR Research Ltd.660 Eglinton Ave East,Sunnybrook PO Box 50207,Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4G 0B5And then checking it at:https://riocan.propertycapsule.com/cre/commercial-real-estate-listings/toronto/ontario/sunnybrookplaza/plansit seems that there is no reference to LCR Research, although there is a:"Space 106 - John And Chris"But Google street view is clear about that:https://goo.gl/maps/Em6gLQgSDTP2Well I suppose they are small enough and don't need much space.Of course, the address is just the PO Box that seems to be in the Canada Post Office in the Pharma Plus next to the small "John & Chris Interiors Ltd." shop. I will wait for the review.I am also surprised by how available the LCR Pro Plus tweezers are, you can just get then in Amazon with prime free next day. Really impressive for a company with just a PO Box as physical presence.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 08:24:56 am
content: With a Niche product like this having a second job or income stream wouldn't be surprising so it could potentially be any tenancy in that strip. For example I do a few very different things to make ends meet and have done for over 15 years now. With offsite warehousing and dispatch you can shrink the space needed even more.One of the big things that has come from this transaction is quick turnaround and obvious product knowledge on the other end of the emails in particular given the time of the year.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 12:00:12 am
content: Several weeks laterI have had the LCR Research Tweezers over the weekend and the Smart Tweezers turned up after nearly a weeks holiday in Erlanger. So this is reasonably fair I will have a play for a few days with both get to grips with driving them before getting into testing and more thoughts.Basic form factor is more or less identical as is feel in the fingers. Tweezer tips are identical to look at and the level the tips can be displaced from each other by sideways finger pressure is all but the same.Based on this quick look any testing will be more about user interface, accuracy, linked software and function in daily use for sorting or in circuit testing.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 02:10:36 am
content: Have you tried the TL-22 tweezers with DE-5000?Not too shabby, although a little larger, and not Canadian, a very good value, and should definitely be considered.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 02:18:45 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 15, 2019, 02:10:36 amNo need to.After a short space of time using professional SMD tweezers beanflying and other members will find a significant speed and convenience advantage over any bench or DMM format tool, even if they offer 4 wire tweezer leads.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 02:28:16 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 15, 2019, 02:10:36 amThe DE-5000 is still maybe the best bang for your buck in a handheld LCR out there. The incircuit testing of these tweezers is one of the real benefits as are the test frequency options.I would rather not muddy the thread with what is better or worse outside of these and keep it fairly much on topic.

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 06:23:06 pm
content: I have owned and used every smart tweezer variant from these above listed Canadian suppliers by the OP.. By far, the best performing one is from LCR research in Toronto. Chris Bao is very technical and the founder and owner. His competitors have all been associated at one time, entangled in litigation for years yet somehow co-exist. Ya gotta love those Canadians.None of these smart tweezers are cheap, but Chris’s design is superior in many respects. I use the LCR1 more often then the others. Why do I have so many? I dunno, ask my therapist,@grouchobyte

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 10:20:25 pm
content: I’m very interested in this thread because I’ve not yet been able to see honest / neutral / unbiased comparisons between the brands.I’ve been using my U1733C at work more and more (with the tweezers) and it is getting a bit clunky so I’ve been thinking about getting one of the tweezers listed above.I will hold off until test comparisons are posted

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 12:00:49 am
content: Haven't forgotten about this thread. I got the 'L' sanity checking doorstop in the mail today which I can cross reference to some other 2% accuracy inductors I have to play with.Clearly either both are lying or both are pretty darn close to the truth and I have reasonable certainty it is the latter

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 05:01:23 am
content: Damn those little tweezers seem okay.Now I HAVE TO BUY THEM too

author: kahuna0k
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 06:57:51 pm
content: Does anybody know if the LCR Link1 is required for data logging or is it just an USB isolator to keep the noise away from the tweezers? I imagine that the other option is that they didn't have enough space in the tweezers and added the serial to USB thing inside the LCR Link1 and abused the USB cable.Edit: I got an answer from them, it actually has the UART to USB chip inside of it.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 08:36:56 am
content: Digikey are now stockists of the idealtek (colibri) st-5Haven’t seen pricing as a comparison to buying direct or from other vendors.

author: SimpleOne
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 12:25:59 pm
content: Any update on the comparison?I'm in the market for a set and leaning towards the LCR Research gear, but would love to hear all your thoughts after a longer period of comparison.

author: colorado.rob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 02:24:49 pm
content: I have the LCR Pro1. Fairly happy with it. I use it far more frequently than I initially expected. I do not rely on this instrument for absolute accuracy. I use it to identify tiny surface mount components that I accidentally drop, check the ESR of capacitors, verify the inductance of hand-wound inductors, etc. It is certainly accurate enough for my needs.The one downside to these tweezers, and as someone who designs battery-powered products it annoys the shit out of me, is that more than half the time I go to reach for this tool the battery is dead and requires that I recharge it before using it.There is no excuse for such a crappy battery life when the device is turned off.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:13:32 pm
content: I have LCR Pro1 Plus only, so no comparison to other brand. But i have some observations:- like colorado.rob says, it will discharge when off in a box. You have to think about recharging it every now and then even when not using. Annoying.- It can work plugged in, so if you really need to measure and batt is low, you can measure plugged in.- When calibrated (open, short) it is quite accurate. PLUS.- It shows ridiculously low values at unnecessary number of decimals. It would be better to show only numbers that are real. I'm quite sure that 0,9128 mOhm is not necessary, and that it would struggle to measure 100 uOhms, let alone 100 nOhms.- LED test on mine is great because not only it measures it and shows direction, it will also light a LED. Great.- When it shuts off, it will sometimes forget settings. So it starts beeping again, although I set it to silent. Or goes to slower measurements. Annoying- When you perform SELF CALIBRATION, it resets device settings. THAT IS ANNOYING!- You can set continuity threshold. Good.Generally speaking it measures great and I use it all the time.But LCR research should issue firmware update to fix few niggles and it would be world class instrument. Now is just really good and useful but annoying as hell at the moments.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:27:07 pm
content: QuoteGreat or correct…On work we have different LCRs....A yearly calibrated, old GenRad, an old "Monacor" LCR handheld, a place where we measure the inductive with a resonant circuit, a test unit where we measure the inductance with "power", an Atlas LR45....And each one gives different values, mostly what inductance concerns.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 11:55:56 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 09, 2019, 08:27:07 pmThe inevitable consequence of having more than one meter.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2019, 03:08:19 am
content: Quote from: JxR on October 09, 2019, 11:55:56 pmAnd possible multiple test frequencies !Then it is user error !Want metrology grade results then buy metrology grade instruments.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2019, 03:56:19 am
content: It's not a metrology issue - the difference in reading capacitance is due to the DC bias level and AC amplitude used for the test causing a shift with ceramic caps.I useSmartTweezersand they are fine in the lab, very handy.My only gripe is you can't upgrade firmware without sending them back to the manufacturer.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2019, 09:28:15 pm
content: QuoteYes and no.Multiple testfrequencies are common for a good LCR-Meter.In most cases, the frequency will be choosed automatically.But this is not the point.The point is, you could measure all inductance with one meter, no problem what this concerns.But are the measured values in every case true….no.It depends from the construction of the inductance.Try for example a coil for power electronics with a meter which delivers appx 1V and a few µ/mAmperes.Or measure a coil, which core doesn´t "fit" to the the testfrequencies you can choose/will be automatically choosed.So what is "great", what is "correct"....when the meter shows the value you expected ?Could be difficult when testing unknown coils.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2019, 12:20:15 am
content: Used them both a bit over the last few months but I have still haven't had a chance to sit down with both and do a proper head to head look at them. My leaning is to the LCR Research over the other but that could be that I have used it more and is cost me more. But overall I like the menu a bit better.I have a couple of projects I am finishing off over the next week so I will try and clear the deck for a proper play and run them side by side with some testing including the software (done virtually nil with so far).On 'accuracy' both are more than up to bench use but not a replacement for a full blown bench LCR meter which I may or may not have been looking at over the last few weeks

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 04:35:07 am
content: Reawakening this somewhat old thread...beanflying did you make any comparisons between the pro+ tweezers and the DE5000? Thx