BYOD - "Bring yoru own Device" - Computer for Secondary School Student. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 06:06:28 am
content: My granddaughter starts secondary school next Feb, and they need to take a 'device' to school. The spec is attached. But can be mac/windows or chrome.. ( meh no linux, what are we doing, )What would you suggest. TOp of mind is that we get somethign that is tough. Kids are rough with gear. So, no superthin, no strength machine.Budget of up to $1000 USD.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 06:21:03 am
content: I would be looking at something second hand, seeing as it'll be banged around and possibly damaged in a schoolbag etc.Something with i5 CPU, 4-8Gb RAM, 13" 1080P screen. You could pick something up in good condition that is way fast enough for half your budget.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 06:51:43 am
content: I see you are in New Zealand... PBtech off-lease refurb laptop seems like a good choice if you want to get a higher spec laptop than a Chromebook, without the fuss and risk of.buying second hand from an auction site.https://www.pbtech.co.nz/category/computers/exleased/laptopsSee if you can get.one with an SSD in it. School laptops tend to have a hard life....

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 06:55:46 am
content: Not a comment on the device, but more on the handling of the device.Our kids had medium grade ($1000 or so) Toshiba laptops from around grade 4 to year 12.They were ALWAYS kept and transported in a very rigid laptop bag. The sort with hard foam covered by soft foam, they added about 40mm all around the PC.The laptop was either in the bag or on a desk - no carrying the thing around or just jamming it in a back pack.We got 2 kids through 8 years each with out a single breakage of any sort. Other kids seemed to be smashing screens every other month.We also discouraged (as did the school) drawing or sticking stickers all over the back of the screen so they got the idea of treating the thing with respect.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 08:16:34 am
content: From the POV of a poor uni student that carries a laptop all the time and manages buying laptops for family.(1) Do not buy anything with a glued-in screenMake sure it has a traditional laptop bezel around the screen. If it's a glass sheet glued on or anything else: stay away from it, it's probablymuchharder to source and install replacements.Telling your kids to "not break the screen" is not a reliable method of preventing screen damage. It's a school with many (hundreds?) of other students, stairs and sheep-throwing teachers. There's a good 50% change it will get destroyed at some point.As a point of comparison: replacement for my current laptop's screen is about 65AUD shipped from eBay. I've done this a few times for myself and others, it's easy and cheap (only screwdrivers are required).(2) Do not buy anything without a SATA portMany low-end laptops these days use soldered-on MMC flash of around 16GB-64GB; instead of a HDD or SSD. They often call this an 'SSD', but it's highly dissimilar to traditional SSDs in many ways.Ignoring the fact the flash is slower than an SSD: the main issue is lifespan. My last laptop became useless because this MMC started acting up after three years of wear. It's soldered on BGA, so there's little hope of replacing it easily. And these laptops tend to skip on having an internal SATA port, so you're SOL if anything happens to the MMC.With a traditional SATA port inside a laptop you can just switch out the drive if anything bad ever happens. I've also found SSDs to be more reliable than soldered-on MMC anyway (likely due the size/availability of spare blocks).(3) "New condition" laptops can be had from company clearouts on eBayI picked up two new-condition 11.6" thinkpads off eBay for 200 AUD each + shipping this year, family is very happy with them. My timing seemed to match IT companies doing stock changes, so there were many available, and YMMV. The laptops were only 2 years old and in perfect/unused condition.My current laptop is a refurbished model bought through DELL (they sell refurbs directly, see their website). It's had some battery problems, but after battling for a warranty replacement I received a battery with the exact same problems. So I suspect it's a model fault(4) Modern "features" are often not worth it(Unless you have very, very specific needs. Certain device compat, disability support, etc )In particular:- Touchscreens- USB C ports(5) 11.6" units (the smallest common size) are very portable optionsThese laptops are about the size of a thick A4 book. They fit in bags very well, are lightweight (generally 1~1.6kg) and are slightly bigger than most 'netbooks' of about a decade ago.Screen: 1366x768 at 11.6" is perfectly workable for most people. Sometimes it's a little frustrating (especially since most applications want touchscreen-size UI these days) but it's still a very popular and supported size. Don't go for 1920x1080 in this size, it makes most applications + text way too small, and workarounds are fiddly.If your kid has very bad vision it may be wise to go for something bigger at a low resolution (more inches, but sticking to 1366x768).(6) Stick to standard x86 machinesPlease, please don't buy a macbook. They're not worth the money. They are not "well built", that age of apple has well passed. They're just as crap as everything else now, but cost more to repair.Avoid chromebooks unless you plan to replace the OS on them (and have researched how to do this). The options for software you want to install are heavily limited, not to mention the privacy problems (which may or may not be a concern for you, opinions vary).(7) Don't spend an arm and a leg"Ooh, those laptops over there cost 1800! Why is the one I've looking at so cheap? There must be something wrong with this $400 one then!"Nope. The $400 one is fine. They don't cost anywhere near that to make. You're being manipulated by, literally, price labels.When a friend lends me their laptop and tells me how much it costs I have to realise that I could have boughtfourof my current laptop for what they paid, and still have money left over for dozens of packets of Tim-Tams. And I could be grinning my (chocolate-covered) face off whilst doing so.While I'm ranting here: there was once a poll for how much people pay for laptops on a linux subreddit. The minimum option was "$1000 or below". Yeah, thanks. Let's move on.(8 ) Tips on researching modelsMany laptops on the market advertise their crazy specs. And magically no info on their battery life. That means they have no battery life. Don't be suckered into buying a desktop replacement, classrooms only have a few tether points for power and there will be a pile of kids queued to use them.It's worth getting something smaller/lighter if only because your kid is unlikely to be using it all the time in class. Paper still rules in many areas, and probably always will. I went through the NSW year-9 free laptop program: the result were laptops that were great for games and movies, but poor for work (because they were so locked down). Things are different when you control the laptop, but don't believe teachers/staff if they claim "most" work will be done on a laptop; they're trying to tow the party line but won't change their teaching style any more than they normally would. Teaching is about the people, not the devices.To find the age of a laptop (a surprisingly hard task): research its processor. Intel's ARK site has manufacture dates for their parts, Wikipedia pages have dates for AMD parts. Whilst in the desktop space any processor from 2011 onwards is still OK for daily use; the laptop world is a little different. Even though processors have not been getting much faster they have been getting more power efficient, and batteries also die over time. Don't buy anything that's more than 3 years old unless you know exactly what you're doing.(9) Throw Linux on as a dual-boot optionFor when Windows breaks the night before an assignment is due, if for nothing else. You and your kid may or may not want to be using it over Windows, that's fine, but Windows is quickly becoming a shitshow and you want options in your belt.(Actually I lie: Linux can't save you from thelatest Microsoft stuff-ups. Make sure your kid backs up their stuff!)If you and your kid are happy with Linux as the main OS, but you fear the school may have some problems: put Windows into a Virtualbox VM and leave an icon for it on the desktop. Vbox is free, its wizard sets you up quickly and easily. You will want to install the "Guest extensions" in Windows afterwards to get a good feel and performance for everyday use. You can share a folder between the two OS's so things are easy. When it's needed Windows will be there, just a click away.Sidenote: I recommend Linux Mint (Cinnamon or XFCE) for new users. Don't go for anything that uses GNOME 3.(10) Get a laptop padding thingamajigThey're less than 10AUD shipped from eBay and you have hundreds of printed designs to choose from. They're nothing more than some padding and a zipper, but they save a lot of money and trouble in the long-term if you carry a laptop in your backpack.eBay search term: "11.6 laptop bag" (or appropriate size), then sort by cheapest.I lost my first laptop screen to a plastic chinese takeaway container in my bag. Yep. Anything with a corner will put pressure on the screen. Since I started using a cheap padded bag I have lost no screens in my backpack.Hope some of this helps.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 08:59:15 am
content: I saw "digital device" on the spec page and thought, maybe she ought to take some 74LS chips.Out of curiosity though, why is the school not providing these machines? If they do, they would have insurance and technical support. If not, it is potentially a lot of cost and responsibility on the students (and/or parents).

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:13:50 am
content: Quote from: steve30 on October 25, 2018, 08:59:15 amWell provided you had enough 74xx series logic you could eventually build a computer capable of booting android. It probably wouldn't be very portable tho, especially when you include the batteries needed to make it run for 4 hours.(Hopefully it finishes booting in those 4 hours)

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:17:10 am
content: for hard to break, look at an older panasonic toughbook, should be able to find them for under $1000, and they can run windows 7 without issue,https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-5x-Panasonic-Toughbook-CF-29-Military-Rugged-Win-XP-SP3-Laptop-Ready-2-USE/111020649881?hash=item19d958ad99:g:3x0AAMXQDjhQ5Qt~

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:21:22 am
content: (11) Do not take advice off EEVBlog forum membersYou'll end up with something wire-wrapped or mil-spec with probes

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:44:39 am
content: well I definitely reached crude milspec, but no probes included

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:52:17 am
content: Are schools today doing laptop teardowns, instead of frogs dissection?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:53:12 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on October 25, 2018, 06:06:28 am"A banner with a strange device------Excelsior!"

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:55:20 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on October 25, 2018, 09:52:17 amIt does seam like a much more useful skill these days.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 10:13:26 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on October 25, 2018, 09:52:17 amStrangely enough, almost yes.I'm organizing for an old Cisco UCS B200 chassis, along with 8 dual-core B200 M2 blades to appear at the local high school (all 100kg+ of it), where the students are going to autopsy it.The intention is to pull it to bits, identify what parts do what, and look at the industrial design that was involved, and comment on environmental issues, like e-waste and the hidden costs of cloud infrastructure.It will then be shipped of to the recyclers...

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 11:54:25 am
content: No Linux? Android is essentially Linux with a different userspace... and if you root, you get "real Linux".It sounds like everything they're doing is web-based, so you should be fine with something like Ubuntu.Just be wary of the spyware they might ask to install...

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 12:01:42 pm
content: I think the "Windows or Android" thing is so that most people know how to use it and how to fix things when it doesn't work. I'm sure as long as whatever you use can open webpages and word documents you are set. Linux is not for everyone but I'm sure they wouldn't have anything against it as long as you know how to fix your own problems rather than asking the teacher why is it not connecting to WiFi.But for most use cases a Windows laptop is the best choice. Everyone knows how to use one and things mostly work out of the box. The laptop will also continue to be useful after school.EDIT: But id certainly find it cool if someone shows up with a DIY raspberry pi laptop.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 01:06:51 pm
content: Just get a used Lenovo and install Ubuntu on it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 01:52:56 pm
content: My grandson (college age) has a Microsoft Surface Pro as do I and my wife. I also have the more expensive Surface Book. The screen fonts are pretty small, perfect for young eyes. I tie a 27" monitor to my Book.Command line Ubuntu runs under Windows 10 (you have to install the Microsoft add-on) and I haven't tried to dual boot these machines. My main tower does dual boot Linux Mint and Win 10. But that's not a portable machine!