Circuit for Boiler  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2020, 06:35:38 pm
content: I tested all the parts I could individually and everything is good. The connection to the incoming and outgoing sockets need to be re-soldered. There were extra wires inside the box that I don't know what they are for.If I just want the power IN and the power OUT connected, do I need to desolder the current connections and change, or can I move forward with what's already done? I looked up a lot of dimmer circuits, but cannot find one that is the same as this. There is also an ring terminal at the end of the wire that should(?) go to the power OUT socket which is also confusing me. Can someone please help me get this wired properly?Thank Youedit: I do not work with mains power devices because I am inexperienced with this. I am nervous about this and making a mistake.

author: JKKDev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2020, 06:58:09 pm
content: Look up what the TO-220 package device is (I would think it would be a combined diac and triac package - also called quadrac). Then draw the schematic for what little components there are and at that point you should be able to find a similar dimmer circuit rather easily. With this small of a component count, it's better to know exactly how it's supposed to work rather than blowing something up because of a wrong assumption

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2020, 07:39:28 pm
content: Searching did not turn out so well. Here is what is printed on the part (TRIAC?):130 082GKLJD VUCHN 839If it is a TRIAC, would it be easy for someone to figure this out?THANK YOU!

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2020, 08:59:00 pm
content: From another circuit I saw that looks almost the same, maybe it goes like I drew in the attached picture. I would like someone to verify, before I plug this in though.Thank You

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 05:38:25 pm
content: It looks like someone just used a light dimmer.What does the switch do? Does it have a light in it? I think the blue and purple might need to be reversed but first look for the switch part number.I worry that it has no ground wire. The triac+heatsink are probably hazardous live. So it must not touch the front panel. The still should be grounded and the front panel too, for safety.edit: the circuit cannot work. It is missing a wire and the heatsink is too small. I will draw a schematic.

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 07:10:13 pm
content: Yes, it is a light dimmer.The switch only turns it on and off. Yes, it has a light in the switch. Reversing the blue and purple wires only effects which way the switch turns off and on correct?I put electrical tape on the back of the front panel in case the TRIAC hits the panel.There is no ground in the laboratory, which is common in Brazil construction. I don't know why Brazil doesn't use ground wires, other than cost maybe.The boiler for the still is a stainless steel drum and the column is made of copper. The boiler sits on a steel platform/stand, which sits on the ground. This is in a lab, so I cannot actually ground it like literally with a rod hammered into the ground. There is no ground in the plastic, electrical sockets either. To ground it with a rod, the wire would have to go out a window and down two floors to the ground outside.Thank You for your help.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 07:27:44 pm
content: I can't see the connection to triac MT2, in one picture it looks wrong? Look at this wiring diagram and see what you think.

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 08:41:40 pm
content: Thanks A LOT for drawing that schematic. What application is that? I really need to get something like that to draw schematics.The TRIAC is actually wired correctly. It is just difficult to see in the picture. It is actually difficult to see in real life too. The two black wires coming out of the dimmer circuit is how it came out of the factory. Typically, you would replace a light switch with this dimmer circuit -- unhook switch, hook-up dimmer.In this case, the dimmer and switch has to go between an incoming receptacle and an outgoing receptacle. That's it.Thank You!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 10:47:38 pm
content: Remember the heatsink is too small, maybe good for 700W before the triac gets too hot.The triac part number you gave is not right, it is an ST part like BTA10-600 or something, I see "ST" on it.At work we use Altium for schematics I can draw that faster than with a pen.Good luck with the project.

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 12:59:01 pm
content: Yes, I know what you mean about drawing faster with an app. I am an architect and can draw many times faster using Autocad Architecture, Revit, and several other apps, than I can by hand.Thank you for your help!

author: k8byp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:00:57 pm
content: Let me tell you of a former Employer that did the exact thing ... with no idea what he was doing as you.He nearly burned his business to the ground.You have no idea what youre doing and are plying with fire. (literally)Go buy something. This is ancient technology

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 04:57:40 pm
content: I made some changes. Can someone please double check this for me? When the toggle switch is ON, it connects the Purple wire (AC in) to the Black wire (to dimmer). When the toggle switch is OFF, it connects the three Blue wires.Thank You.

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 02:16:41 pm
content: I know this dimmer circuit looks like junk, but I did not build any of it, I am just connecting wires. The dimmer circuit was made by LUTRON. It came in a black plastic box for mounting in a wall. The TRIAC was riveted to the aluminum front plate. I ground off the rivet to remove it. I put it in a new box, added aluminum heat sinks and isolated it from the front plate with two layers of rubber padding. See the pics.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 04:10:21 am
content: For safety you should check with an ohmmeter there is no connection (of anything) to the front plate, and that the rocker switch does not short out mains - this would happen if we have the wrong connections to the switch. They are not all the same. Most have the middle to the load. If you can look for a part number or markings on the switch. Or put the ohmmeter across the mains-input (blue+brown, it's not plugged in!) and flip the switch and it should never go to low ohms.I would have to have a ground wire to the front plate, so the still cannot go live if there is a problem, i.e. the triac melts. You say this is not possible in Brazil. Ouch.The original has dimmer is rated 600W and so I would not expect a lot more without the triac getting too hot or failing, if only rated to say 6A.

author: vidarr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 12:00:03 pm
content: Thank You for helping me. I did what you suggested and the switch seems good to go (I don't know if it matters, it is a lighted rocker).I am going to add a fuse to this. After all the grounding discussion, I think having a fuse might be a very good thing.When I get it finished, it would be great if you, or someone, could take a quick look to double check for me. I would really appreciate it.Thank You!