Help Fixing R9 290 Graphics Card  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 07:40:52 am
content: Ok so I bought this card off ebay, description read "Burnt Caps"..The card arrived today and it has a bit of corrosion on the PCB, I've washed the board in 100% IPA but there is a problem, there are two components missing from the PCB behind the processor, a SMD cap and what looks to be a smaller cap but it could be something else.(before cleaning)Missing components areC2718and one next to TP11So the seller said he took the card to his "techi" and that guy determined that it was the electrolytic caps, even tested them with an ESR meter apparently.. They don't look like they've been desolderedAny way so after cleaning I put the card into my system, it outputs an image but there are artifacts on the screen. What could be the cause of this?PS: the seller said he tried to reflow the card in the ovenIt'd be nice to get this card running, any idea's? I can't find any info on repairing this card, not even a service manual :/Thanks

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 09:24:17 am
content: There are no electrolytic capacitors on R9 290, only polymer and ceramic. If he tried to bake this card, my guess it could be irreversibly dead. To clean the corrosion completely, you need ultrasonic bath, otherwise it will remain under the parts. Likely artifacts appear are because of the corrosion under the RAM BGAs. Better to return it to the seller as not as described, because he didn't mention baking torture and corrosion.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 09:33:20 am
content: Quote from: leham on March 04, 2015, 07:40:52 amService manual for the graphics card?

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 11:28:54 am
content: Ask yourself this question: if he only had to replace a cap and/or reflow in an oven why didn't he do it himself and sell a working card on eBay rather than a half dead one?

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 09:08:12 pm
content: Hmm trueI only paid $40 for it..I wish I had an ultrasonic bath haha because I would do that

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 09:18:08 pm
content: Based on the condition of the label and the corrosion seen below the heat-sink mount on the back of the card, it looks like it might be burnt caps, quite literally.Whenever someone with enough knowledge to be dangerous sells something and states what the problem is (as if he could know), I'd run fast and far

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 09:28:36 pm
content: Ah yes. The 290 from Sapphire Technology, #21227-00-40G. I have blown up that exact same card almost exactly a year ago. It is a popular card to mine Litecoin/Dogecoin/etc. while being massively overclocked (you may guess how I know that). Mine was only mildly overclocked to 80°C (many people run them at over 100°C) but still died within 2 months. Luckily I was able to return it to the shop for a full refund...I think you should cut your losses and never buy a used Radeon from anybody who knows what Bitcoin etc. is. I'd only buy used graphics cards from CAD users.

author: kjn4685
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 01:37:25 am
content: I don't know if this will help, but I have in the past used isopropyl alcohol and poured it on the board and used can of air and blew the alcohol under the chip and cleaned it up.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 04:12:54 am
content: Quote from: kjn4685 on March 05, 2015, 01:37:25 amThats a good ideaI might buy a can of compressed PCB cleanerCould the artifacts be caused by high ESR? They don't really move around much on screen .....

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 06:58:45 am
content: There cannot be high ESR, there is no electrolytic capacitors. And blaming something else when all the board is heavily corroded, makes no sense. Blowing with IPA won't help, first of all because cleaning corrosion with IPA is not a good idea by itself. Reason is chemistry, organic solvents dissolve inorganic salts very badly. You can even watch Dave's videos where he tries to clean corroded PCBs with the brush and IPA without much of success. All he gets cleaned is because of the mechanic impact, not solvent. Ultrasonic bath with IPA won't work too, it could clean some very light corrosion but not this. Ultrasonic bath with water and some salt or acid based additive is needed. Then cleaning in the ultrasonic bath with pure water to remove all cleaning solution residues.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 09:00:06 am
content: Thank you for correcting meYes I know the corrosion is the main problem, what I meant to say is how important do you guys think these broken off components are? Also How could I find out their values?Also just out of my own interest, I've been trying to find the location of the bios chip.I've found a pm25ld010http://www.chingistek.com/img/Product_Files/Pm25LD010020datasheet%20v04.pdfBut I don't think thats it, according to the data-sheet it's an eprom..

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 09:57:02 am
content: Yes this bios chip, the same as on my R9 290s and there must be second such IC on the opposite side of the PCB as it have switchable dual bios. Where did you get that this is EPROM? There is clearly written FLASH in the datasheet.Broken parts likely are just power decoupling capacitors for the RAM chips or GPU, likely they won't have any impact. You can just remove same capacitors nearby and measure them (at the same place under another ram chip or GPU (I see only 3 kinds of capacitors under the GPU)).

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 10:40:11 am
content: In the data sheet it says Eprom (typo maybe?)\Cool thanks for clearing those one upI'm wanting to get an ultrasonic cleaner any way, so when I get one I'll try to give this board a good cleanI've found some power PCB cleaner that you add to a ultrasonic cleaner..http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Jewellery-Blinds-Watch-care-PCB-Cleaning-agent-/221706728949?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item339ec035f5

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 11:46:30 am
content: Quote from: leham on March 05, 2015, 10:40:11 amNo rather you need to read more carefully, first sentence. About cleaning solutions, not all are good for solder, many of them easily dissolve lead free solder. Therefore need to try on some scrap boards first. Leaded solder is more robust against such solutions.

author: Spyke
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 07:33:50 pm
content: It looks like a water cooler puked up all over that card and given the corrosion, gone unnoticed for a while.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 10:44:10 pm
content: haha ok thanks maybe I shouldn't try reading data-sheets when I'm sleepy..What do you recommend (cheaper if possible) as a cleaner, 3M do some but I dare say they'ed be more expensive..Would simple de-mineralised water in an ultrasonic bath, then rinsing in 100% IPA suffice?@SpykeYeah that is what I'm thinking, he didn't seem to into computers because the thermal paste on the card was that horrid grey Chinese stuff

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 05:39:09 pm
content: No rinsing in IPA, at least while the board is not completely dried or it will be a mess. Just rinsing in distilled or deionised water afterwards. Filtered tap water also will do, but better to blow it out with compressed air. Water alone won't work, as of simplest option, weak citric acid solution do work. However it can tarnish some connectors made of steel and can start to eat some solder away if immersed for too long (30+ minutes, depends on concentration).

author: max666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 07:19:09 pm
content: Years ago I had my self build water cooling system take a pee on the graphics card, resulted in colourful artefacts as well. I cut the power as quick as possible and dried her up. But the first attempt was obviously not good enough, because the beautiful artefacts were still present, so I got out the air compressor and made sure to blow out all the water from under the BGA parts (and boy was there still water under there, you wouldn't believe it).I presume IPA stands for Isopropyl alcohol? Isopropyl alcohol would obviously evaporate a lot easier than just water, so I don't know how critical that is to get out from under BGA parts, but I would make sure to blow out any reaming fluid with compressed air.Good luck on your project, but to be honest, I have my doubts if this card will ever work again :/

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 09:24:10 pm
content: ok, so washing the PCB in demineralised water in ultrasonic bath then rinse in distilled or demineralised water?Are those cans of PCB cleaner any good in this situation?So a lower Ph will work better??Yeah this card isn't looking too promising, but I didn't pay much for it and it's a fun learning projectYeah I mean isopropyl

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 09:42:50 pm
content: The trick is to not dissolve the solder and parts. Some fluids dissolve SMD varistors but leave most of the corrosion at the same time.

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 06:21:06 am
content: CoolSo I've cleaned the PCB and under the BGA's with some compressed PCB cleaner stuff, also reflowed the Ram and processor.Still get artifacts on the screen, so I'm assuming the next logical step is to replace the capacitors and clean in an ultrasonic bath (if I can get one).One other thing, the heatsink doesn't seem to be making full contact with the die on the GPU, if it put a blob of thermal compound on the die and pop the heatsink assembly on, it barely gets spread out, looks like its got a 1mm gap or something :/Anyone experienced this before? Pretty sure I am putting it on right, I can get the screws in no problem..Also before installing drivers, I can run the card no problem in windows, after I install, the system won't get too the desktop (login screen then black screen), it will sit for a while then ramp the fan up 100%.I'm assuming this is to do with both the suspected caps and the Heatsink being dodgyThanks for all the help guys

author: leham
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 12:21:44 am
content: any ideas guys??

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 12:07:09 pm
content: I think it's likely that the GPU is either dead or dying, the previous owner will have put it in an oven for one thing.. which is to try and reflow the BGA solder balls. This can be done and it'ssometimes successful, however it's not normally very long before the problem occurs again. If it is the GPU solder which is the issue the only real way to repair it is to re-ball it, and even that's not100% guaranteed to work without problems.You mention that the heatsink for the GPU is not making full contact even though it's fitted correctly, I would suggest that this may have been the issue in thefirst place, and is perhaps why the card has overheated/failed.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 05:14:33 pm
content: The only idea is to properly clean it first. Anything another is just wasting time before doing this mandatory thing. I don't get how blowing some cleaner would remove any significant amount corrosion under the parts. Also I already suggested how to find values of the missing capacitors. There is nothing more to ask before doing your own homework. If there is a gapQuoteThat was really stupid to do, BTW How did you reflow them?QuoteI do't think it's possible. Is the die completely covered with thermal paste after removing the heatsink? Did you fasten GPU screws? If there would be no contact wit the die, heatsink would be wobbling when only 4 gpu screws are fastened.