Donate an Oscilloscpe? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2015, 11:45:01 pm
content: Hello Forum members. I read and use information from this forum and the eevblog channel a lot. I am a beginner and am wondering if anyone can send me a 2 channel analog calibrated oscilloscope.A Mhz range from 20-100 Mhz, I really don't care. Thank you so much. -Mr.ClarkP.SIf it isn't 2 channel or calibrated please still let me know I would be very happy to even get a broken old oscilloscope. Thanks.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:15:34 am
content: Why do you need a scope?

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:31:32 am
content: What State/City are you in? Might make it easier if it's a local gift with no shipping costs involved.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:42:47 am
content: I live in Idaho Falls Idaho, zip code 83404.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:43:38 am
content: ataradov, I need a scope to begin to tinker around and learn electronics.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:51:43 am
content: You don't need a scope for that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:06:07 am
content: Quote from: Dave on November 11, 2015, 01:51:43 amYeah, but he wants a scope, it'll open his electronic eyes.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:07:09 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 11, 2015, 01:43:38 amYou really don't. And you won't have much use for it until you are able to re-phrase "I don't really care what mhz." in a way that makes sense and technically correct.Also, why do you need calibrated scope for tinkering?

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:12:26 am
content: Dave Jones! I watched your video that said to ask on the forum for a scope, and I guess that isn't a very good piece of advice, because even though I asked it in a nice way I end up getting dumped on.I want a scope to start off in electronics and learn electronics.Thanks.-Mr.Clark

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:15:53 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 11, 2015, 02:12:26 amThe advice was to ask if you have a specific problem (or project) that you think you can't solve without a scope. Or you fee like you are at the level where scope will make a difference.Asking just because you want one will appear rude. Especially specifying number of channels and requirement for calibration.Lots of people have started without a scope and made a good progress.Also, look on Craigslist.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:18:02 am
content: Sorry if my intentions came out wrong, I guess I don't really care if it is calibrated, even if it doesn't work, that would be a nice project within itself.I am sorry.But I just watch Dave a lot and he often uses an oscilloscope and recommends getting one.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:26:08 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 11, 2015, 02:18:02 amDave has 30+ years of industry experience, so he knows why he needs a scope.In any case, even if you manage to get something for free, the shipping fees will kill you (even within the US).If you are just starting out, then start without a scope, you'll be fine. Cheap Harbor-Freight multimeter (that everyone likes to dump on) is not a bad investment if you are on a tight budget. Just don't stick into mains

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:29:38 am
content: And $20 will buy you UNI-T UT136B, which is a very nice multimeter that I personally use as a daily driver despite having much more expensive meters.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:31:56 am
content: I am going to get a UNI-T UT61E for Christmas.http://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Multimeters-Capacitance-Measurement-Connection/dp/B007THZMWI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447209027&sr=8-2&keywords=UNI-T+UT61e

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:33:22 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 11, 2015, 02:31:56 amWell, there you go. That would be plenty for a lot of electronics-related stuff.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:57:52 am
content: Would I have to have the same Mhz probes as I do Mhz on my oscilloscope?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 03:00:07 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 11, 2015, 02:57:52 am"Mhz probes" and "Mhz on my oscilloscope" are nonsense phrases. You will know that by the time you really need a scope.And no, they are completely independent parameters, but you need to know how different combinations will affect the result you observe.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 03:51:49 am
content: Jeez, give the guy a break. Nothing wrong with wanting an old, low bandwidth scope to use (or fix) as one is first learning. Not everyone needs to "walk five miles through the snow, uphill, to get to school" just because you may have started out that way. It's not like he's asking which $3,000 scope to buy...As Dave implied, being able to visualize voltage/time relationships will facilitate his learning - even when just starting out.To answer your question nOb, the probes rated bandwidth should be greater or equal to the scope bandwidth. The inexpensive eBay p6100 scope probes - usually $10 - $20 a pair are a good value and adequate for any sub 100 MHz scope.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 04:06:06 am
content: Fixing an old scope is definitely not something a beginner should attempt. The voltages used for driving a cathode ray tube are lethal and shouldn't be poked by someone who has no clue what they are doing.By the way he worded his first message, it appeared as if he wanted a scope just to have a scope, because the Aussie said it's a good tool. If he started off by saying "I'm experimenting with this and that and would like to see how the circuit is behaving vs time", I'm sure he wouldn't get the response that he just got.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 04:47:16 am
content: Quote from: Dave on November 11, 2015, 04:06:06 amWell yes and no - it depends on how-broke it is... In any case, plenty to learn by trying, even if unsuccessfull. I've seen beginners come on the Tek scopes forum with a "broken" Classic tek scope get walked through troubleshooting and repair and learn a ton in the process.QuoteWell you can't protect people from stupidity. Just because someone is new to electronics, doesn't mean they're clueless about the dangers of high voltages or too illiterate to read the warning stickers on the CRT.But, i do agree that all things considered , it's best if a rank beginner starts with a working scope. If nothing else because it often takes a scope to fix a scope.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 04:54:33 am
content: In order to fix a scope you need to know how said scope is supposed to work in a first place. And if your questions is whether "MHz" on the scope must match "MHz" on the probe, you clearly don't know that.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 05:04:23 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 11, 2015, 04:54:33 amAnd having a 30 year old scope sitting in front of you, turning knobs and not being able to find a trace "it's broken!" And then turning to this or another forum or elsewhere for help, asking questions, etc is one path towards gaining that knowledge - a path many have taken, even if it isn't the one you took. There's more than one "right" way to learn electronics.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 05:51:54 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on November 11, 2015, 05:04:23 amIn a perfect world that would happen, the reality is people come across that video and think oh cool I need one of those to do electronics. The scope sits in front of them and does nothing for a few weeks and they leave the forum just like all the majority of others that asked for free gear.Most people are not self starters they are whimsical. I think it's much healthier to save up and buy a kit that will get your feet wet and show you what electronics is really like such as this. The bonus is after assembly you actually made something.http://bit.ly/1RzsbiMDSO138 DIY Digital Oscilloscope Kit Electronic Learning KitIf you don't have $30 to spend then hobby electronics is probably not for you, but you can still get a taste of it without spending any money at all, this circuit simulator combined with some of the links for education found on the net will teach you more about electronics than any old or broken oscilloscope will.http://www.falstad.com/circuit/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 06:59:17 am
content: Another thing I'll add, you don't necessarily need a calibrated or "in calibration" instrument especially as a beginner, but a secondhand instrument that has recently been calibrated is a bonus.Most electronics troubleshooting is about "go, no go" testing, so in the case of an oscilloscope seeing a signal or the correct type of signal is more important than absolute accuracy.The most used and useful piece of test equipment I would say is the multimeter, followed by a variable bench power supply and I'd encourage you to focus your attention there.Once you have those and a soldering iron and a little experience seeing if the hobby is for you, save up a few hundred dollars and go straight for an entry level DSO (digital storage oscilloscope) such as the Rigol DS1054Z for $375 with free shipping (tequipment.net).Throwing any money into any old oscilloscope (which includes shipping them around) is dead money.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 07:15:58 am
content: Have you tried looking at your local Craigslist or on eBay? There might be some cheap analogue scopes...

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 07:22:32 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on November 11, 2015, 03:51:49 amNo kidding.Lot's of people new to different things join a forum asking about what they need to get started and not really knowing what they really need.but what they DON'T need, is some asshat being an asshat.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 07:33:03 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 10, 2015, 11:45:01 pmHow much are you willing to spend on shipping?I have a couple, one of which that I might part with, but you have to cover shipping.One is a pc based scope. Velleman PCs64i. You'll need either a laptop or desktop that has an available parallel port.I'll even throw in a probe.

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 08:58:56 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 11, 2015, 04:54:33 amRight, give this guy some slack ok, he's a newbie and your berating him like a fully qualified engineer that should know better.If I spoke to the students in the lab that way I'd have my P45 by the end of the day! pack it in!To nOb, have you tried asking your local college for any hand me downs? Usually they have a clear out once in a while and its a good place to score some old, but useful kit. Ask to speak to the technical support department or lab support team, or whatever they are called, I'm sure they may be able to help or at least let you know if and when they'll be having a clear out.

author: Monittosan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 10:21:58 am
content: Nob a Hacker space or just chatting with others with who are experienced in electronics will be a massive help!Even try tracking down some old electronics magazines if you enjoy reading.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 11:47:49 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 11, 2015, 02:26:08 amGive the guy a break, he wants a scope, nothing wrong with that. In fact it should be encouraged, not discouraged.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 11:49:51 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 11, 2015, 03:00:07 amA reminder that this is the beginner section, please do not discourage and disparage beginners in this manner, this is not the place for it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 11:51:52 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on November 11, 2015, 03:51:49 amYes, you shouldn't need to pay more than $12 for a pair of them on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-100MHz-Oscilloscope-Scope-analyzer-Clip-Probe-test-leads-kit-for-HP-Tektronix-/371339453469

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:01:33 pm
content: Will passive probes work on any oscilloscope?Ive seen active ones with chunkier box ends, with the extra pins to tell scope what value it is etc.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:38:35 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on November 11, 2015, 01:01:33 pmThere normally is a manual switch/button on the front of the scope or it's buried in the software menus on DSOs.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 02:12:05 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on November 11, 2015, 01:38:35 pmNot common on analog 'scopes---------you either have to calculate the correction factor in your head,or in some cases,the X10 probe has a single extra pin which in conjunction with a metal ring around the BNC tells the 'scope to apply the X10 correction.And of course,not all 'scopes have a v/cm display on the screen,in any case.

author: n0b
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 12:10:06 am
content: QuoteYeah I personally messaged you and if the shipping cost is pretty cheap I might be interested.Thanks for everyone's contributions.

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 02:50:16 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 11, 2015, 04:54:33 amNot necessarily true. It's all relative to the fault of the scope.-1 @ataradov for every post of yours in this thread. Bad form.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 02:57:59 am
content: Quote from: tec5c on November 12, 2015, 02:50:16 amSorry if I offended anyone, it was not my intention.My personal preference if I get stopped from trying something that is way out of my current capabilities. I'd like to be pointed in a right direction rather than be told that I'm a special snowflake and I can achieve anything I want if I try hard enough.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 03:05:58 am
content: Sorry, just couldn't resist

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:22:27 am
content: Hahahaha

author: liquibyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:47:43 am
content: Some people insist that "mediocre" is better than "best." They delight in clipping wings because they themselves can’t fly. HeinleinYou never know, this guy might be the guy that invents flying cars because some kind soul donated a scope to him starting out. I have an old Conar 255 you can have for shipping that I got in a trade from here. I got the adapter so that BNC probes can be used but no probes as I currently use the ones I got but as Dave said you can get them inexpensively. Let me know if you want it and we'll work it out.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 06:05:15 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 02:57:59 amDon't worry, what you said was perfectly sane, but the underlying message was lost on others.

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 07:53:20 am
content: So before you ever used a scope, you knew the entire theory of operation inside and out?? I tend to think not...

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 07:59:59 am
content: Quote from: tec5c on November 12, 2015, 07:53:20 amAbsolutely not and I never said that. But by the first time I ever used a scope, I had an actual project at hand that I had a problem with. And my understanding of how the scope works was rather limited, but I at least had experience with electronics in general.Additionally, I don't think that starting with an analog scope is a good idea. I know, I'll be crucified for saying that, but I just don't see the utility of an analog scope in a modern world.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:18:02 am
content: Why assume anyone would crucify you for that comment ?, personally I think it is merely easier, or shall we say more likely the OP would be better of with an analog scope for free or minimum cost to learn basics on than the reality of someone sending him a digital one for nothing.Something is better than nothing, or would you not agree ?. No not having a dig at you merely asking your opinion.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:20:45 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 07:59:59 amFunny........I thought the bid amounts on analog scopes on ebay were what people were willing to pay, not the sellers paying the bidders to take those old antiquated power hogs off their hands........p.s. I've offered him a Tek Type 422 for the cost of shipping.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:21:47 am
content: Quote from: Deathwish on November 12, 2015, 08:18:02 amI feel like there are plenty of people here having nostalgia for analog scopes, forgetting how awful they actually are. And the grass was greener back then, of course.Quote from: Deathwish on November 12, 2015, 08:18:02 amKnowing what I know right now and being in a position to pick an analog scope for free, or one of those $30 DSO kits, I'd go for the kit.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:23:34 am
content: Seriously?one of these over a Tek analog?http://accudiy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&products_id=198&zenid=837037d4d34155f0f22994d3d192a943

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:24:14 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on November 12, 2015, 08:20:45 amThis is either people, who really know what they are doing, or people with nostalgia.I'm in the process of restoring to a working shape a 1985 Soviet PC. It is an utter piece of crap, but that the first thing I ever programmed, so I have warm feelings for it.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:26:33 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on November 12, 2015, 08:20:45 amPersonally I see those on ebay as of the following types.1. beginners who have NO clue as to the real value of the item they are buying but just get caught with the woo factor and the thought they have a scope.2. The collectors of older kit who love them and will pay over the odds to get that special one for their collection.3. The older tech who is averse to digital but knows his way round an analog one like the back of his hand.Most of the analog scopes on Ebay uk are massively over priced but then we always get screwed on the price of things here.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:27:36 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on November 12, 2015, 08:23:34 amYes, any day of the week and no facepalming required.I hate analog scopes. It is possible that it is because I mostly do MCU-based designs with rather limited actual analog stuff. And analog scopes are just not useful there, but it also happens to be majority of modern applications.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:27:55 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 08:24:14 amSo I can conclude you don't know what you are doing? (see bold text above)

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:29:29 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on November 12, 2015, 08:27:55 amWrong. I know exactly what I'm doing, and I know that even crappiest DSO works better for my use than the best analog scope.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:33:05 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 08:29:29 amYour use of an item doesn't dictate the usefulness or not, of that item, to anyone else.Too bad there isn't an ignore option, you'd be first on my list.Fellow is wanting to learn something new and you've done nothing more than shit in this thread every chance you can.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:40:31 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on November 12, 2015, 08:33:05 amThere is ignore option, look in your profile settings. You are welcome.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:41:53 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 07:59:59 amANY scope is better than NO scope.CRO's are what MOST OF US started with.If I couldn't have a DSO, I'd have a CRO in a flash.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:44:03 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 08:40:31 amAppreciate that as most forums have the ability to click on the user's profile and select ignore.And in the meantime, I'll withdraw my offer to the guy for the scope and you can send him one of those glorious $30 DSO's.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:54:55 am
content: sigh, can we just all move on or something

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 09:08:07 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on November 11, 2015, 01:01:33 pmYou have to ensure a *10 passive probe's compensation range encompassess the input capacitance of the scope.A low impedance Z0 passive probe (which is actually a higher impedance than a *10 high impedance probe!) is usually better for frequencies >50MHz, but requires a 50? termination at the scope.FFI seehttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 09:10:49 am
content: Quote from: n0b on November 11, 2015, 02:57:52 amRoughly speaking, the bandwidth is limited by the performance of the lowest frequency component.For a more accurate answer see the table inhttp://bristol.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=oscilloscopeprobes

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 09:46:34 am
content: I promised myself that I would stay out of this thread but just one point and I'm out...For a beginner just starting out, Itiseasier to understand what an oscilloscope does, inside and out (and I'm not suggesting a noob taking the lid off!) with an Analogue scope, what you see is what you get, it matches all the block diagrams and basic tutorials on the web.I'm not arguing that digital scopes aren't more convenient for many (most?) tasks these days, but for a beginner experimenting in the analog domain - amplifiers, oscillators, 555 timers, any repetitive signals, and learning the basics of working in the time domain, triggering, scope probes, X-Y mode, Lissajous patterns, bandwidth etc, It really is a valuable learning tool that will give him a proper grounding for the future.There's plenty of time for the OP to learn about menus, cursors, automatic measurements, variable persistence and all the bells and whistles. It's best for now to learn toproperlyinterpret the trace on the screen. make your own voltage, time and rise time, phase measurements etc.Edit: To address ataradov's persistent point: The purpose of the OP getting a scope isto learn how to use a scope!

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 10:28:23 am
content: I confess I don't really understand this, almost hatred, certainly belittlement of analogue 'scopes for hobby use.Certainly a good modern DSO has lots of tricks up its sleeves that an analogue 'scope can't manage but for the bulk of hobby use anythiing from a Tek 464 up will be fine, and certainly better than no 'scope.Is a 464 better than an entry level Rigol - probably not but you should be able to pick a decent one up for less money than the Rigol - even a DS1052E is £240 in the UK and you should get a reasonable 464 for less than half that which will free up funds for a decent multimeter, soldering station etc.QuoteTrue - but, euqally, don't let "best" become the enemy of "good".Quote from: crispy_tofuNot a bad idea

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 11:04:37 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 08:21:47 amRead the specs:-DSO138 DIY Digital Oscilloscope Kit Electronic Learning KitSMD is unsoldered and without instruction about how to solder the SMD.This is the newest version 13804K (113-13801-050). (Update in 2015-09-01, CN warehouse at present not in EU&USA warehouse)Characteristics of indicators:Maximum real-time sampling rate: 1Msps---about in step with the analog bandwidthAccuracy: 12Bit---goodSampling buffer depth: 1024 bytes!!!Analog bandwidth: 0 - 200KHz---about the same as a 1949 analog!Vertical Sensitivity: 10mV / Div - 5V / Div (1-2-5 progressive manner)------not spectacularAdjustable vertical displacement, and with instructions---okInput impedance: 1M?--standardMaximum input voltage: 50Vpp (1: 1 probe), 400Vpp (10: 1 probe---okCoupling modes: DC / AC / GND--standardThe horizontal time base range: 10?s / Div - 50s / Div (1-2-5 progressive manner)----poorWith automatic, regular and one-shot mode, easy to capture the moment waveform----goodAvailable rising or falling edge trigger--standardAdjustable trigger level position, and with instructions--standardObservable previous trigger waveform (negative delay)----goodCan freeze at any time waveform display (HOLD function)----goodComes 1Hz /3.3V square wave test signal source--standardNote:This is aDIYkit,need to have some basic electronic activity and ability, because of different levels of ability and technical,we can not guarantee that everyone can DIY success, but we are committed to do our best of after-sales service.Apart from the storage function,even the cheapest analog oscilloscope on eBay.com.au--a Telequipment S31 Serviscope,(no bids,start price $2) would run rings round that kit in normal 'scope applications.If you must have a fairly lousy DSO,such not very nice things as the Hantek 6022BE would be better than the kit!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 11:27:25 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 08:27:36 amHave youeverused an analog 'scope?Do youhave the first clueon how to use an analog 'scope?I can understand someone preferring something like a DS1054Z,because they can do most of the things an analog 'scope can do,plus the things only a DSO can do,but to recommend what is basically a toy is another thing

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 12:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 12, 2015, 07:59:59 amFrom that we can deduce:probably you have considerable experience, unlike the OPprobably you have never taught beginners about scopes and how to use themIMNSHO, analogue scopes are better forbeginners to learnto use because all the controls are visible on the front panel (not buried deep in a menuing system), and the traces are more WYSIWYG with fewer traps for the unwary.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 12:58:42 pm
content: Noone is saying fans of analog oscilloscopes can't or shouldn't own them. But it's polite they wear a mark so potential beginners can identify their bias.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:44:01 pm
content: Not a bias, just simple logic:1 - OP wants a scope cheap or donated2 - No one is likely to donate a decent Digital Scope3 - All the Digital scopes / kits in his price range are crap / toys - without exception!4 - With luck he can find a decent quality Analogue scope either donated or ebay etc.Therefore go with the decent Analogue scope - It's a no-brainer given the above!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 03:24:58 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on November 12, 2015, 12:58:42 pmDitto digitising and digital scopes.Personally I always to try to use an appropriate tool for the job at hand. Sometimes more than one tool is appropriate. Sometimes one tool is significantly superior. Sometimes there is only one appropriate tool.Yes, you can use a hammer to insert screws - and (except for the last turn) professionals often do!

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:05:16 pm
content: There are several advantages of an analog scope over a digital scope for the beginner.1) It can be bought used for little $$$ or less.2) It can be used for a voltmeter very easily to measure several points of a circuit in a few seconds, especially useful to see low-level voltages change at slow speeds in real-time display. Most digital scopes require the entire sweep time to complete before seeing the results or have only a limited range you can see a roll sweep, so for slow waveforms, it is so easy, an analog scope requires no complex setup required for getting instantaneous feedback watching slowly changing phenomena.3)The waveform is not distorted by the resolution of the display or the very limited vertical dynamic range and slow recovery from overload of a digital scope.4)An analog scope will not give you an erroneous display caused by aliasing/sampling errors.5)Very rugged and usually easy to repair, it is easy for a beginner to have a slip of a probe on a input and change an expensive, impossible to repair digital scope into a box of spare parts. See how much easier it is to get a schematic for a Tek or HP versus a Rigol or some other crap Chinese digital scope you could just barely afford. I've learned more about electronics from reading the circuit descriptions and theory of operation of an old Tek scope than most of my work studying textbooks.A slewing waveform or a ramp is displayed a linear continuous slew or a ramp and not as a step-function or a chain of dots.In short, an analog scope allows very quick setup, can easily function as a voltmeter, so just turn it on and you have a quick view of circuit action v. time without digitization noise at low levels, display resolution distortions, distortion of waveforms due to exceeding the small vert. dynamic range, delays in display v. circuit action and having to deal with a so hard to use because it is so complicated to setup instrument..it provides just instant feedback that is so helpful in learning about electronics or even for a professional engineer or technician to do complex scientific study or engineering work.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 12:41:07 am
content: Quote from: Shock on November 12, 2015, 12:58:42 pmMost of the bias is on the part of the DSO proponents.Mention getting a "cheap analog Oscilloscope",& they come out flailing:-"Analog 'scopes are useless!""Secondhand analogs will always break down & are full of unobtainable parts!""They are too expensive for OLD analog,out of date technology!""But they're OLD!""I only look at digital stuff,so they are useless!""You mean I have to count squares?""They're so big!""What! no Auto button?"" Did I mention that they're OLD!!""Who cares if my DSO reduces its sampling rate at long time/cm settings--nobody ever uses those settings!"I could go on all day----"torn from the pages of EEVblog forums."The facts are:Youcanbuy cheap secondhand analog Oscilloscopes --even on eBay.(ignore the silly overpriced stuff)If you can,look beyond eBay--'scopes are often available at Hamfests for $100-$150 for the popular Tektronix &HP models,& very much less for less well known brands.At Hamfests,people arrive with a certain amount of money in their pockets,& are more likely to spend larger amounts on a Transceiver,so Test Equipment tends to not be their priority."Just get a Rigol DS1054Z!"---hah!US $375is not"chicken feed" for many of us-------let alone $A600!!Even a secondhand DS1052E on eBay.com.au went for $A362---for an outdated model.Another one is $A500!Modern DSOs can do just about everything an analog Oscilloscope can do,& more,but this level of performance has been a long time arriving.Why else are there so many surviving analogs--why didn't they all disappear like the Dinosaurs as soon as the early DSOs appeared?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 08:22:14 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 13, 2015, 12:41:07 amNicely putWhen, not if, the "digital good analogue bad" raises its head again, I may remember to point to that post!