NSA, GCHQ and their SIGNAL INTELLIGENCE monster - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 08:20:42 am
content: So, As a lot of you already know after the Snowden leaks, the over reach of NSA and GCHQ on world wide scale was revealed. They were not just spying on terrorist and Criminals but they were collecting massive amounts of data from millions of computers, cell phone networks and ISPs. They were not just focused on internet traffic but also their focus was on the receiving analyzing and storing all kinds of RF and Microwave communications mean while terrorist activities went on in Paris, UK, US and other places. Now I see most people when they talk about NSA and their massive spying programs, they say it was a failure because they weren't able to stop these attacks but do they really care about these terrorists? I mean GCHQ targeted Belgacom largest cell phone provider in Belgium and German cell phone providers and several others. These attacks had nothing to do with terrorist, they just wanted to break into these systems and collect data. Why not just use the old fashioned ways of spying by using Human intelligence instead of spending billions of dollars on systems that collect so much data that you don't even have enough resources to analyze it ? It seems so unnecessary unless its not about terrorists. This is not something new, this has been going on since the 60s. In the 60s Americans developed systems to collect data from Intelsats which were just harmless communication satellites. It's the height of the cold war and you are wasting time, money and valuable engineers on storing data from civilian satellites? Ummm Why? And its not just Americans, the Russsians, the Chinese. They all have SIG INT systems installed on most of their embassies in foreign countries whose only job is to collect and relay data to massive data centers in their home countries.It is only matter of time they start crunching this data and god knows what they are gonna do with it. I mean look at NSAs massive data center in Utah. That thing is scary.May be I am being a little paranoid and no I am not a Deep state, new world order conspiracy theorist. I am just trying to make sense of all this. As some who is highly interested in Signals and Systems aspect of the modern communication systems, I am very sure that the next war is not gonna be bullets and bombers. I mean why waste men and resources on old school warfare when you can have massive teams of nerds at your disposal capable of crippling your adversaries entire economy, power generation systems, electrical grids, water filtration systems, food processing and production system, transportation systems, heck even cars these days are connected to some kinda of network. I mean you just need 20$ SDR and a computer and you can scan around, you will probably find some company which services 1000s of people having systems that use plane text to communicate. Its just takes someone to record that plane text and play it back to fuck things up. People actually are that careless. You could potentially send a country back 100 years without using a single nuke if you know what you are doing.So, the question is? Are we seeing the early developmental stages of 'cyber nukes' by these agencies? Is this a the new Manhattan Project or just sheer incompetence of these 3 letter agencies at fighting terrorism and wastage of tax payer dollars?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 08:39:46 am
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 11, 2018, 08:20:42 amI'm yet to find anyone who knows about this industry who has declared it a failure. In fact, quite the opposite. The 'Five Eyes' have been extremely successful in stopping terrorism along with state and federal law enforcement agencies.Quote from: MrOmnos on March 11, 2018, 08:20:42 amThey do! The public (let alone the targets) just don't know about it and for good reason.Quote from: MrOmnos on March 11, 2018, 08:20:42 amIt's not just about terrorism. Investigating other types of crime also utilise these kinds of resources.Quote from: MrOmnos on March 11, 2018, 08:20:42 amI think the money is being well spent and you have those 3 and 4 letter agencies along with the various Policing organisations to thank for your lifestyle today. I have experienced first hand the kind work these people and organisations do and it's simply amazing.

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 09:40:45 am
content: I don't think you are getting my point. You are completing ignoring the overreach of these agencies when it comes to data collection. Spending billions to collect data and spying on people and yet you still have things like 'June 2017 London Bridge attack. Those attackers had lived in UK for a long time and Youssef Zaghba and Khuram Shazad Butt was even known to UK authorities as extremist. These guys should have been a giant flashing red light at Scotland Yard, MI5 and GCHQ with all the budget and resources these agencies get. Of course you can argue that, hey you are not talking about the countless times these agencies have saved lifes and I agree they might have saved countless lives but when you are devoting so much resources, money and compromising privacy of millions and millions of people to do just one job that is to stop such incidents from happening and yet you end up failing at it then its either incompetence or terrorists are not their major priority.I mean you can come here to Nepal and go to any building in front or around of the US embassy and from the top you can see dielectric sheds on the roof of the embassy. Which mind you is completely illegal under Vienna conventions (not the sheds but whats inside the shed). You can argue again, Nepal is unstable country so they need intel on stuff. Forget Nepal, let see what Snowden (I am not a big fan of Snowden myself) told us. Snowden revealed These sheds are all over world. Even in Vienna which is quite ironic. Not just Americans; Russians and Chinese also have these things. These can't be just for the terrorist and criminals? Why do they need such huge amounts of data unless they are upto something more important? I just wanted know what people and engineers on here who have worked on telecommunication systems for years, think about this. That's all.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 11:21:07 am
content: So you have started a political thread. We don't this stuff on here as it only leads to grief. So the rules are no politics or religion.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 09:30:06 pm
content: Part of the big issue is that the general public does not even care. "i have nothing to hide". It's like not caring about free speech but people don't seem to see it this way.They only thing we can really do is try to make their lives harder by using encryption, and avoiding stuff like cloud etc. But only so much you can do. Phones are probably the worse spy devices, they are too closed, and built around spying. Then there's all the backdoors that are built into stuff, like the intel ME stuff.What we need is an open source computing platform right down to the silicon level, but that would be a pretty big undertaking for hobbyists with small budgets.I wonder how hard it would be to reproduce a cpu to handle all the main x86 / x64 instruction set but without the spy stuff using discrete components on PCB cards that slide into a main board. I guess it would probably take up a couple houses worth of space.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 09:37:13 pm
content: So now it's your intel CPU that spies on you......

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 09:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on March 11, 2018, 09:30:06 pmUm, yes I am one of those. I am more concerned about my neighbours kids trolling me with bogus calls using information I chose to make public than what MI5/6 are up to with regards to me. I'd find it really entertaining to think that they have a file on me. The ability they have to monitor the entire population is even less credible than the "WIFI vans' that were supposed to catch me using TV I don't have a licence for and i expect the government wanting to secure extra powers was just as much a scare tactic as the announcement of those phantom BBC "WIFI vans".......

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 10:12:25 pm
content: Not sure why the OP singled out the 5-eyes side of things and ignored the spying done by, well EVERYONE! Do you honestly think the Chinese and Russians are not collecting data and spying?I do think the pervasive spying on everyone is unconstitutional (USA) but that hasn't stopped them and appears unlikely to. The problem pervasive spying creates is that it places too much focus on remote controlled spying and not enough on field work by actual people. In this regard I think Russia is way ahead of the west -- you can bet they use many of the same automated data collection tools, but for a century they have made human intelligence a priority and are the best in the world at it. The 5-eyes approach leads to too many folks sitting on there ass at there desk waiting for "the system" to kick out a warning -- meanwhile, terrorists, knowing that all electronics is being watched, don't use it or use it disconnected so the very people the automated systems are supposed to track are not trackable because they're off the grid. The rest of us, however...Here in the Salt Lake City area we have the latest, and by all accounts the largest, data collection system in the NSA at the Utah Data Center aka (Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center). So, about 20 miles from my house is the worlds largest porn collect!Brian

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 10:20:48 pm
content: Yea, in the UK all of the private companies that were expected to hord data on behalf of the government were told the government to go jump off a cliff or pay for the infrastructure themselves.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 11:02:38 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 11, 2018, 10:20:48 pmYou might want to catch up with reality Simon. The UK government can make laws, and if a company doesn't obey them they get fined, or people get jailed. If you think telling the government to "go jump" works, tell it to the taxman and see how long you stay out of jail for.Here are these laws:Investigatory Powers Act 2016in particularPart 4 Retention of communications data.Please note:Quote from:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2016/25/section/95/enactedThe bits in bold basically boil down to make them do it, or if they don't take their money/company/jobs away.By now, 2018, notices to collect and store bulk communications data will almost certainly have been issued to all the major Telcos and ISPs and, by virtue of Section 95(2) above none of them are allowed to say that they have been served those notices.If you want to continue believing that the UK government isn't spying on everybody, ask yourself, why did they make laws two years ago that allow then to do exactly that and to simultaneously keep the individual orders secret?

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 12:34:54 am
content: The one common theme with the fears surrounding mass data collection is that - people assume that because"government" can have access to all your personal information, that it will inevitably use that against you.I'm sure very few are actually important enough to warrant the time and resources to search your history, and actively "spy" on you. This is why data collection is such a wet dream for intelligence agencies - they can just collect as much as they can, and search through it later when they need to. And to do this they need a name, and a reason. They are not going to use this previous resource to try and swing your vote next election, or blackmail you - you are not important enough.If however, someone is already on a list for surveillance then the powers that be already have their data stored. But I imagine the vast majority of data will never be seen by human eyes, there is just too much of it. Even searches for specific terms (but not people) will throw up so many matched results it would take people decades to search through it all.Also, most of the time, we aretoldabout the data collection in the T&C's. Using a PC, or a mobile phone is, even today, optional. Using google is optional. They are conveniences that are incredibly useful, relatively cheap, and the price we pay is that we give up some personal information, both to government agencies, and even to the public.I'm not saying I like this. I would prefer our previous privacy laws (in the UK) rather than the current ones, but I don't think any mass surveillance system is going to be abused - unless an employee with access to the data wants revenge on an ex partner or something, which I imagine is rare.What worries me far more is the way our government (as the US) assume that technology can solve all problems. This means they spend less time actually thinking about solutions to problems, and just throwing money at "big data" assuming it will somehow improve health, education, security etc..

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 01:36:00 am
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on March 12, 2018, 12:34:54 amThe primary realistic fear, is that at some point all that data will get handed to a black box AI programme that has been "trained" to recognise terrorists/criminals/tax evaders whatever. That inevitably leads to false positives, and before you know it some poor bunch of sods have been arrested and had their lives turned upside down. Having once spent 24 hours in cell, in a police station, on suspicion of burglary just by dint of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and the same sex, age, height and build as the real perpetrator (Male, early twenties, average height, average build), I have some inkling of how unpleasant that is. Remember the Muslim family in Forest Gate whose house was literally torn apart by the police on, it turned out, completely flawed intelligence. Imagine yourself in police custody as a "suspected terrorist" because "the computer says so".It just needs Google to propitiate the Home Office by saying "we'll give you a hand with an AI if you don't look quite so hard at making us do X" and we're all set to go. Read up on regulatory "mission creep" - "We've got all this data, why can't we do something with it?". First it will be terrorists, then it will be other criminals, then it will be tax evaders; finally they'll work their way to "people who drink too much, smoke or buy unhealthy food".There's also the issue of what I one heard described as "civic hygiene" - don't collect data that you don't strictly need. At some point those stored communications recordswillleak, therewillbe a data breach and more likely than not that data will end up in the hands of the wrong people, be that criminals or a hostile foreign power. One British politician, I forget who, said words to the effect of "When I read draft legislation proposing a new law I ask 'what could this law do in the hands of my worst enemy'". What could mass surveillance do in the hands of our worst enemies? For a start, it would be gold in the hands of a foreign invader. For a lesson from history, look at the German invasion of Holland in the second world war and how the Germans made use of Dutch civil records.

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 04:16:49 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on March 11, 2018, 10:12:25 pmQuote from: MrOmnos on March 11, 2018, 08:20:42 amHi, never said Russian and Chinese don't do it. They all do it.

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 05:14:37 am
content: Finally, the site is back online. Hahaha. I posted this and after few minutes the site went down. It scared me for a moment. I was expecting black hawks and predator drones over my house because I had mentioned dielectric sheds on US embassy.Anyways, I don't think this thread is political in any ways. I think it is a good topic to have a discussion on. I am not much concerned about my privacy at the moment. My major concern is, why? Why collect so much data and what is the guarantee that it won't get into bad hands. What people learned from snowden leaks that NSA and GCHQ were mostly concerned about getting in to a system. They wanted to break in to everything, or you could say they wanted to have capability to break into all kinds of systems. They didn't care if it was an ally or an enemy. They just wanted to break into things.Take 2004 Greece Olympics for an example.NSA asked to help the greek government to setup a system in their cell phone network to listen and monitor terrorist activities during the Olympics? And gullible Greeks agreed to it. So, NSA nerds came to greece, injected their malware in the largest cell phone provider of Greece (Vodafone at that time) and started listening. The agreement was that NSA would plug out their system after the Olympics. Fast forward a year, A Vodafone engineer is found hanging from a noose in his apartment. Turns out NSA had never planned to shut down the malware and poor dude had found something was wrong because some of the antennas were over heating as if they were being over worked. (may be he was also in on it but there's no real way to know) Few months earlier to thast some NSA nerd tried to remotely update the malware and messed up. The update caused system wide problems. People's messages went undelivered and Vodafone started getting lots of complaints. They couldn't figure out what the issue was so they sent the logs and dumps to Ericsson which were their original equipment manufacturer. Ericsson later found a malware with 6500 lines of codes and also provided phone numbers that were targeted by the malware. The phone numbers included the Prime Minister Of Greece, his wife (why the wife tho) mayor of Athens and members of Greece Ministerial cabinet.Now, greece is not in middle east and neither a rouge nation. Its a US ally, why spy on them? Lets, says they had reason to spy on them but the Prime Minister? Why? And it wasn't even even metadata, they were recording calls, messages every thing. I mean I just can't make sense of any of it. Imagine the Prime Minister meeting a US diplomat after learning that Americans were listening to his ph calls. It must have been so awkward.And I am pretty sure Russians and Chinese are trying and doing the same when ever they get the opportunity.Although, I would like to learn more about that 6500 lines of code. And also the update and what caused the issue. Probably forgot the damn semicolon .

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 06:03:26 am
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 12, 2018, 04:16:49 amI didn't say you said the Russian's and Chinese don't do it -- merely pointing out the fact that YOU focused on the US and Brits. If they all do it why did YOU focus on just the US and UK?Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 06:10:41 am
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 12, 2018, 05:14:37 amOK, I suspected a bullshit story and now you've gone and proved it. Overworking the antennas causing them to overheat -- please, where are you getting your bullshit from? And the Vodofone engineer that wound up dead -- this reads like an Alex Jones story. Honestly, I find it disappointing that after seeing untold numbers of trolls on YouTube NASA videos I can't seem to get away from them here either!Brian

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 06:21:20 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on March 12, 2018, 06:10:41 amlol, you really thin I am bullshitting?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostas_TsalikidisHe was found hanging in his apartment.I am not suggesting he was murdered but his death is a fact.Here's the wiki link.https://theintercept.com/2015/09/28/death-athens-rogue-nsa-operation/Here's the detailed analysis of the story by a well reputed journalist who has been writing about the intelligence community since the cold war era.Still think I am a troll.I talked about over heating because that was 'he' suspected.Not something I made up myself.There must have been several other factors why he thought the antennas were over heating and we will never know that because the dude is dead.But what is the fact that, there was a malware and the Greeks traced it back to Americans.Greeks even have an international arrest warrant for an American for the the whole thing.

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 06:27:25 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on March 12, 2018, 06:03:26 amI am focusing on US and UK because we know the most about them. And Russia and China aren't really know for respecting its citizens rights. But by mentioning that I am probably politicizing this thread so, lets not discuss that. What I want to do here is discuss the technological aspect of it and what the future is going to look like for us engineers who are involved in this field. Thank you!!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 06:46:37 am
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 12, 2018, 06:27:25 amThose that have access to classified or protected material and methodology do not discuss what they know (and those thatthinkthey do, tend to shout it from the rooftops like it's a badge of honour or something). Likewise anyone with a security clearance won't publicise it. For the most part, technologies and processes in this field are at least 'highly protected' and are subject to guessing games and assumptions by the general public. Even what was accessible to Snowden was a very very small subset, which really didn't reveal too many details at all.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 07:30:45 am
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 12, 2018, 06:21:20 amOK, read the Wikipedia article ... interesting. Not sure what to make of it though when you add in a dead person that may have played a roll that surely increases the interest.As to the US involvement, it's hard to say what the specific motivation would be and the dead guys involvement is ... uncertain.The US was busted a few years ago when they were caught bugging Angela Merkel's phone so it's not beyond the NSA to do something like that. The two things about Greece that suggest a possibility is there roll in NATO and the dept issue, but the debt issue wouldn't have been apparent in 2005 so I can't see the justification for extreme measures on the part of the NSA. And, whatever you say about the NSA or GCHQ, there is little to suggest murder is in there playbook.If the US played a roll in this it would be about the stupidest thing they could have done as it would make Greece more antagonistic to the US. But, people do stupid things so it is possible.One last thing ... when you populate your comments withwhen talking about murder you make it difficult for people to take your comments seriously -- the trolls I mentioned do that kind of thing all the time. In the future I'd recommend not using it with such topics....Brian

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 07:44:49 am
content: Quoteoh..sorry I didn't realize that. I am really sorry. I didn't feel I was being insensitive. I din't mean to tho. I will keep in mind next time.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 08:06:02 am
content: Quote from: Simon on March 11, 2018, 09:37:13 pmOh mate, don't even go there, some conspiracy theorist muppets have the opinion that the Intel chipset is spying on you because a promo leaflet suggested you could disable stolen hardware by 3G link, that was taken to mean that the chipset has a built in 'secret' 3G data connection that was always monitored.The paranoia is strong and unshakeable in some of them and there is no way to disprove their claims because they will eventually just end up beating you with their massive stupidity.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 12:32:05 pm
content: Not to go into politics/right wrong on civil rights but I think they use the data for corporate spying and insider trading. That's what I would use it for.But as far as corporate rights its good for the US to do it to china/Russia but it's bad for the US to do it to US companies. There is no way to have one without the other

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 12:50:31 pm
content: And it's just common sense not to look at, say, or type sensitive things into the internet/phone/email. I know this for a fact and if you don't believe me try for yourself and the government will tell you not to ... in person! It's not worth it to me.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 07:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on March 12, 2018, 08:06:02 amActually there is truth in that backdoor, AMD has one too. Lot of articles out there on it if you just google "cpu backdoor". There are various open source efforts to try to disable it but so far nothing really simple has come out and because it's secretive it's hard to even know for sure if anything you do actually worked. Nobody really knows for sure if it actually has a 3G radio. A lot of it is speculative because of the secretive nature of it. Someone that really knows how to reverse engineer at the silicon level would need to get right to the die and analyze it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2018, 07:21:10 pm
content: trust me there is no 3G radio in you intel CPU

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 12:12:35 am
content: The 3G radio is just one part of the ME backdoor and not confirmed. The backdoor does exists and uses ethernet most of the time by intercepting packets. Essentially from what I understand it shares the same mac/IP as the existing network but operates at lower level. By reading packets it can figure out the IP that the OS assigned to it and then just send/receive under the same IP. The 3G (if it exists) would only be for to access non internet connected networks. The logistics of having a 3G network account for each chip seems complicated though, not sure how that would work. They would need to have some prepaid sims or something and special agreements with the telcos. Chances are some of this info would have leaked by now. Heck most of the info on this backdoor is speculative given it's designed to be secret but think some of it has been confirmed.It supposedly runs on port 16992 and other sin that range but I have not been able to see it open on any of my machines, so I don't know if it uses special port triggering or what. I imagine it's not as simple as just a web based interface, there's probably more to it.Either way in this day and age you have to be speculative as everyone is trying to spy on us. The government, and corporations like Facebook and Google. If something is technologically and logistically feasible chances are it's being done.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 02:45:10 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on March 13, 2018, 12:12:35 amAre you serious? Do you really think all Intel CPU's have "3G" capable silicon? What about an antenna? Power usage? (CPU's, whilst being much more efficient these days still eat a lot of power, and so heat up - why add to that?).I can understand if Intel provided CPU's with embedded radios for mobile systems obviously, but that's like saying "oh no! my tablet has 3G therefore someone is spying on me! It may be my age (in my thirties now) but I'm seeing more and more posts where I cannot tell if its genuine, or if people are taking the piss?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 03:28:24 am
content: From what I can tell it's bull crap. I've worked in places where mobile phones (and other recording/transmitting devices) are strictly prohibited inside the secure parts of the building. Not just switched off or in flight mode, but you physically cannot bring them in. Since the PCs were all Intel-based I would say they have undergone strict testing well and truly before the equipment was procured. There is no way in the world that organisations with strict INFOSEC rules would allow that kind of equipment on their network, whether or not they are connected to the internet.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 03:52:04 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 13, 2018, 03:28:24 amHere's a test. Turn on your cell phone and put it inside your desktop PC's cabinet. Leave a little gap in the cover so you can see the phone. I'll bet the signal indicator will go to no bars or some other indication. Any cell phone needs to hear from the cell tower frequently to know what channel (AMPS) or what time slice (3G, 4G etc.) to use, and will not transmit without being given that info. Clearly the CPU does not have a 6 W transmitter in it, and it would have a HELL of a time getting a decent signal OUT of the box. But, with all the other noise (CPU, memory, graphics card, power supply, disk drive) there's NO WAY the CPU could hear the cell tower.So, it HAS to be baloney!Jon

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 04:11:18 am
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 12, 2018, 07:44:49 amAnd that's precisely the snarky attitude I picked up and you continue with it. Here's the deal...First, you title the post with the tabloid screaming headline "NSA, GCHQ and their SIGNAL INTELLIGENE monster". This is textbook tabloid with the inclusion of a highly pejorative word "monster". In addition, the use of all caps -- again, this is textbook tabloid and also standard fare of politically motivated trolls.And, when talking about a subject that either involves murder or suicide you sprinkled the comment with the laughing emojias if it's hysterical.So, whether you are a troll or have sociopathic tendencies I can't say but I would highly recommend you acquire a less tabloid method of commenting. That is, if you want to be taken seriously.Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 04:21:35 am
content: Oh, and back to the idea that the dead guy "discovered" the tap because the antennaes were getting hot -- got a pointer to that tidbit? If I understand correctly, the NSA planted malware that allowed them to spy on a number of the top Greek political and military leaders. When any one of them made a phone call it would be sent to a number of cell phones in use, apparently, by the NSA or US consulate. How in this arrangement do antennaes get hot? Again, do you have a pointer to such evidence? I mean, if they relayed this via the cell network then in what way would relaying that to another cell phone cause anything to overheat? Maybe the malware forced the system to boost power? Again, I await your source for this tantalizing bit of information. Ultimately, if the NSA installed a TAP they installed a TAP and pretty much all such networks have such capabilities built in by order of the state for there own intelligence needs. The idea that the NSA's use of such a TAP, if true, would somehow overheat the antennae is ludicrous!Brian

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 08:08:40 am
content: Quote from: Simon on March 12, 2018, 07:21:10 pmSee, fruitloops...You're correct of course, the only way there is 3G inside your PC is if you fitted a 3G card and SIM so you can avoid the massive global spy network with the cunning tactic of not fitting the card in the first place but, as has been demonstrated, the conspiracy nut is pervasive.Truth is that ME can be disabled if you have the tools issued to every accredited field engineer for use when fitting a new MB.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 08:16:40 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 13, 2018, 03:28:24 amIt's bullcrap.I've worked in one or two places where phones are verboten on pain of arrest under some rather serious laws.There are no 3G modems inside PCs unless they were specified as an option on purchase, the places would know, I guarantee it.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 10:34:47 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on March 13, 2018, 03:52:04 amI'm not sure where you get your info from, but a PC case does not form a perfect Faraday cage. Of course my phone would work inside it (just like it works inside my car or in an aircraft).Also, AMPS hasn't been in use for almost 20 years and your typical 4/4.5G mobile handset typically transmits at <= 1 watt. In addition despite all the other devices, a computer with a 3G/4G modem would have no problems communicating with a cell tower as the frequencies are completely different (think laptops and embedded devices).

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 11:15:21 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on March 13, 2018, 03:52:04 amEven better: Put your phone inside the case and close it up like normal. Call yourself from another phone and see if your phone rings. If you don't have another phone handy, use an online site to call your phone, such as:https://www.callmylostphone.com/

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 05:07:18 pm
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on March 11, 2018, 09:40:45 amThe law here say its prohibidet to spy against my Country but not others.So I run some SDR Systems near the Boarder...Should I tell you a little storry MrOmnos?A Country call it U.. deliver Weapons and other stuff there allied call them S.... A..... who send it to there more extreme friends and the hand it over the the much more radical friends and the give it to ISIS. And everyone wonder how the get the Weapons...Sadly you speak not German there are some interesting Youtube Videos who could explain something.The Germans sayed after the 2nd World War "no ware anymore" and what happened after? The fight for there freedom on the Hindukush....

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 05:44:34 pm
content: this is why there is a semblance of export controls on military kit or stuff on a dual use list. Does it work ? probably not......

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 05:47:36 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 11, 2018, 08:39:46 amIs there any proof the five eyes stopped much terrorism, outside of their own claims? Additionally, is there proof this terrorism couldn't have been stopped in other less intrusive or effective ways? I think it was the Americans who claimed to have stopped at least 50 terrorist attacks before they happened. As journalists investigated, it turns out there was one where intelligence might have contributed to thwarthing a plot. Not an essential part of, but some contribution to. For the rest there is no proof.Considering the cost in financial terms and those of civil liberties, it should be very clear what the rewards are. Yet they're not. There's a reason the EFF lists that as the number one misconception on their list.https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/top-5-claims-defenders-nsa-have-stop-making-remain-credible

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 05:48:22 pm
content: export control = sell the hot stuff directly to the terrorists.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 05:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on March 13, 2018, 05:48:22 pmnot quite but ultimately its a given that anything you sell may be used against you. Did japan bomb pearl harbour with american made planes or is that an urban myth ?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 05:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2018, 05:50:51 pmExport sanctions on a microcontroller seem a bit silly if you've given away literally armies worth of weapons, now used against you. The enemy of your enemy sometimes also turns out to be your enemy.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 06:19:04 pm
content: we are straying into politics again......

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 06:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2018, 06:19:04 pmI'm afraid that was the intent all along...Brian

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 06:26:05 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2018, 06:19:04 pmWas it ever not about politics? It surprised me there wasn't any intervention at the first remark.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 06:28:06 pm
content: yes and we talked about the feasibility of intel CPU's having mobile phones in them but I think it's time to close this.