Where to buy a 150kwh 300 v ev battery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:20:26 pm
content: I know it's hefty and unlikely but maybe someone knows a battery like that.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:22:25 pm
content: 150kWh?!The largest common EV battery would be from a Tesla Model S. That is 85kWh lithium ion, around 400V terminal voltage when fully charged, 360V typical. Rimac's Concept_One uses 92kWh but it's a million dollar hypercar.People have been buying Tesla batteries up for solar storage systems. They generally average slightly more than $200/kWh or about $20,000 (~£12,500) for one battery.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:24:49 pm
content: Go to the car wrecker and look for a few Prius battery packs, they are around the right voltage and you will need a few to put in parallel to get the required capacity.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:27:08 pm
content: Yup, 150 kwh, as it's for an off the shelf 700HP motor which should go quiet fast in a sub-1 ton EV.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:29:42 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 05, 2015, 06:24:49 pmThanks, don't know why I didn't think of that, probably cos I was so intent on googling around for a new one.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: electrolux on July 05, 2015, 06:20:26 pmHow many do you need?

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:49:47 pm
content: Well, one.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:54:00 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 05, 2015, 06:24:49 pmafter doing a bit of googling I found that the battery is 1.4wh. So I'll need 100 of them. Rather heavy for a sub-1 ton EV.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 07:14:04 pm
content: The 85kWh battery in the Model S is one of the lightest per kWh high-power capable EV batteries. It weighs 544kg, or just over half a ton. A 150kWh battery will likely weigh more than a ton. Certainly, once you add frame, motor, inverter, and a "test pilot" (they won't really be driving it) it's going to be more than a ton.Sure, a 700hp motor will be fast, but unless you can get traction, you will just spin the wheels. The Model S P85D puts down something like 550hp peak (it never gets the full 691hp on the ground - the battery can't keep up) and it does a 3.2s 0-60 time. Which is pulling over 1g accelerating. It is -faster- than freefall! The all-wheel drive is necessary to get the traction and fast acceleration - the actual power output of the P85D is only slightly higher than the P85 (470hp) yet it's a full second faster. Unless you have a lot of weight on the drive axle, you won't go anywhere.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 07:42:39 pm
content: Put it into a bike chassis!Quote

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 08:15:31 pm
content: Quote from: electrolux on July 05, 2015, 06:49:47 pmI'd get a bunch of standard packs and connect these in parallel/series to get the rated capacity. You'll need a balancer to discharge/charge batteries in parallel and battery packs which are closely matched. However I doubt you'll stay below 1 ton. Mounting this weight safely in a car will also be a major challenge. Is this a hobby project?

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 10:39:23 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 05, 2015, 08:15:31 pmYes, I've found some cells rated at 400A 3.2V & 15KG each which results in a 1,500KG battery. And no it hasn't progressed to being a project yet though I hope it to be in a some years by which then battery tech should be more advanced...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 12:20:33 pm
content: Dare I ask what your budget is?Also, why do you need 150kWh? Very long range?

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 01:10:58 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 06, 2015, 12:20:33 pmAs I mentioned before, it hasn't progressed to a project, but my idea was to develop a high-speed track going EV funded by Kickstarter & using off the shelf parts. Possibly OSH.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 01:32:39 pm
content: Quote from: electrolux on July 07, 2015, 01:10:58 pmI don't believe < 1000kg is anywhere near possiblehttps://youtu.be/nMjsAMlXGBIhttp://driveeo.com/1200kg and 50kWhformula E is ~900kg with a ~30kWh battery

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 02:31:42 pm
content: Tesla Powerpack are the version of the Powerwall with 100KWh of beer.Looks like there is almost no details on the www about this Tesla product.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 03:00:37 pm
content: Quote from: electrolux on July 07, 2015, 01:10:58 pmYou could try and use electric scooter batteries. These are often made from small cylindrical cells (18650) so internal heating isn't an issue. The added advantage of using a readily made pack is that it will have all the safety certificates. If you need a lot you could probably strike a deal with a manufacturer. I know these guys are serious about matching cells and quality control (so serious that they don't assemble the packs in China):

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 03:14:38 pm
content: if you've got the money, 33xhttp://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=263is around 150kwh, and about 200kgeditwait, no, scrap that, thats only 15kwh...

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 07:27:07 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on July 07, 2015, 01:32:39 pmSo far, it isn't possible, but it is near possible as I have fond some cells rated at 400ah, 3.2v and up to 4K amp current draw, weighing at 15kg each. So around 1.5ton and I'm sure that there will available technology in a few years time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 08:07:33 pm
content: Actually you can go below 1 ton. A standard 18650 cell is about 10Wh so you'll need 15000 of these. Their weight is about 45 grams each so that would add up to 675kg.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 05:45:54 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 07, 2015, 08:07:33 pmand hold it and connect it all together with fairies and wishes!

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 07:46:49 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 07, 2015, 08:07:33 pmHow do one balancecharge a setup like that?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 09:14:10 am
content: Quote from: neslekkim on July 08, 2015, 07:46:49 amUse a modular approach where you have groups of cells (sub-packs) which have their own battery management system (BMS) which takes care of balancing and monitoring cell voltages. By connecting sub-packs in series and parallel you can get a large capacity, higher voltage and current handling. The battery in Tesla's Model-S is build this way.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 10:34:59 am
content: You can buy real Panasonic Li-ION cells in large quantities for reasonable prices.The NCRB1860 is 3400mah (~260 WH/kg) in 47.5gr package , these are used by tesla.A higher current version NCR18650PF (200WH/kg) is 2900mah @ 44gr but can provide 10A continuous instead of 1-2c of the ncrb.For my quadcopter I have a 6S3P 8700 mAh pack of NCR18650PF batteries weighing in at ~ 800gr. While a equivalent lipo version would be around 1200-1500 gr.The tesla charging / balancing method is known , it is some kind of TI part.One would need to make custom circuitry for charging / balancing. Although this is not that hard to do.Cost would be around 20-30K Euro for the total pack , weight is ~12000* 0.0475 kg = 570kg

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 11:41:15 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 07, 2015, 08:07:33 pmInteresting idea though the only ones I can find so far are Ultrafire ones which I am a bit unsure about. Do you know any reputable suppliers?

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 11:54:03 am
content: I use this website all the time:http://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size.htmlPanasonic, Sanyo, Samsung and LG are the big brands you want to look at.Ultrafire and other china ebay 18650's are crap compared to these.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 12:00:11 pm
content: Quote from: Spikee on July 09, 2015, 10:34:59 amThats a good idea interesting fact that Tesla use them, the best one yet, wait for the magic of the EEvBlog to descend for a better one... maybe but I doubt it.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 12:04:06 pm
content: Quote from: Spikee on July 09, 2015, 11:54:03 amI did think that about eBay ones, thanks for the link, will look in to it.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 02:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 07, 2015, 03:00:37 pmQuite a neat system, given me some ideas...