b&k precision, peaktech: only rebranded objects? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 08:24:52 pm
content: It's been a couple of months that I'm looking for a LCR/ESR meter, a powerful PSU and a DC load. After some web research, I'm landed on B&K precision and Peaktech website.B&k says: "Specializing in the design andmanufactureof high quality, cost-effective test and measurement products for 60 years""Mmm... they have a nice DC load, an interesting LCR meter and powerful PSUs. And also Peaktech have some nice LCR meters and powerful PSUs... But, wait a minute! I've already seen these devices on other websites!".After a little research I found that:For B&KThe DC load "8500" is a rebranded MAYNUO M9710The LCR meter "2170" is a rebranded Shanghai Yihua V&A VA520BFor PeaktechAll PSU units are rebranded Manson or GW InstekThe LCR meter P2165 is a rebranded 380193 EXTECHSome teardown videos/photos that I've found confirm that both brands devices have the same circuitry, same components and - for PSUs - also the name of the original manufacturer on the pcb!.And last but not least, THEY ALL COST MUCH MORE THAN THE ORIGINAL!I was thinking: does this have sense? I mean, for what reason I should pay more B&K or Peaktech and have the same, identical product that differs only in colors or logo?Maybe they offer a better support? Maybe they've request different specifics and better components (like electrolytics) to the original manufacturer?Help me to understand better this kind of market and this brands.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 08:44:41 pm
content: I'm not sure if all their designs are rebranded. For example some of the BK equipment used to be designed and made by Escort. Escort is now owned by Agilent, and I remember Dave mentioning that this prompted BK to redesign it. Not sure if 'redesign' is executive speak for 'find a new OEM design'.Advantages are generally better and more local support, better documentation, better availability and possibly better QC. I would rather pay the extra money towards a better designed unit, however. I generally prefer to buy equipment that was designed in house. For example, the Keithley 2100 DMM is a rebranded Array design. There are several annoying bugs in the firmware of that meter that hurt usability, and the Keithley engineers are aware of it, but they don't have access to the firmware to fix it. And apparently they don't have enough leverage with Array to get them to fix it. The older in-house designs work much better, though they are also more expensive.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 08:55:44 pm
content: Yes, rebranding is epidemic and annoying. And often it is ridiculous how some companies try to establish a "brand" putting their "brand" label on every cheap junk they manage to get their hands on.Not everyone researches new equipment in detail, so some people indeed happily buy from from such companies, believing they are buying "brand". Some also hope, or even experience, better service from these companies than what they would get from an Asian manufacturer, i.e. nothing. Some find it simpler to buy from a (relatively) local company than on eBay, Alibaba or TaobaoBy the way, BK does some own manufacturing, not only rebranding. They own Itech in Taiwan and might have some other manufacturing subsidiaries, too. From Peaktech, however, I have never seen an original product, only rebranded stuff.There is also some story behind the Maynuo. I am not sure if I got all the details right and if I remember everything correctly. The story was along the line that the developer of the BK / Itech load left, took the drawings with him and founded Maynuo.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 10:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: alm on August 27, 2013, 08:44:41 pmMe too!I've asked to Peaktech if they use the same cheapCapxconcaps that Manson uses in their PSU, but they were offended by my question.Quote from: Bored@Work on August 27, 2013, 08:55:44 pmMaybe they have a lot of money to spend.Quote from: Bored@Work on August 27, 2013, 08:55:44 pmHm, interesting. That explain why the B&K precision 8540 is identical to the Itech IT8211.Quote from: Bored@Work on August 27, 2013, 08:55:44 pmGood to know. Maynuo has however a lower price than B&K. This has made me think about quality and I've contacted them about the cheap prices that I've found on the Chinese web market for some of their devices.Their representative told me that some models are only for the chinese market because they are unreliable and have a "high repair rate", but since they can repair it they continue to sell them, while for overseas sells that would be more complex. For USA and Europe they use better components and follow QA procedures.I'm really surprised to hear that a company has 2 production lines, one affordable for the export and one unreliable for the internal market. And I hardly understand how chinese people agree to buy something that will break in few months. I'm still confused. What should I buy? Maynuo or B&K? Or maybe another brand?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 12:23:34 am
content: Also someLeCroyoscilloscopes are made by Siglent.There is a comparison.http://youtu.be/JaIuSnODbOMWe can see that there is alittledifference between these scopes. Well, I do not understand Russian language.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 12:37:52 am
content: Entry-level Agilent scopes are made by Rigol, Tektronix multimeters are made by Fluke, low-end Keithley DMMs (note that low-end is sub-$1000) are made by Array, the IET handheld LCR meter is made by someone else, Lecroy probes are made by PMK, essentially everyone's (Fluke, Agilent, Tektronix, Pomona) probes for floating measurements are made by HCK/Multi-Contact. If we don't count accessories, than Fluke seems to be the best in this regard. They just buy companies/divisions instead of rebranding the products. They bought the Philips T&M division for the Scopemeters, and the Tektronix DMM line for the Fluke 180 (now 280) series. They used to sell a Fluke branded HP bench DMM, but that has been replaced by an 'in-house design' (read: they bought Datron/Wavetek).Is there any major company that's not playing this game?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 12:53:20 am
content: Quote from: alm on August 28, 2013, 12:37:52 amOP, this doesn't answer your question, but I've had a long and very positive service record from my BK8500, FWIW.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 01:13:42 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 28, 2013, 12:23:34 amWhat are you talking about? I see a major difference right from the start. LeCroy is black.Jokes aside, Atten/Siglent probably do a better job at designing an oscilloscope than LeCroy does. Yes, they arethatbad.Quote from: alm on August 28, 2013, 12:37:52 amYup, DE-5000 handheld LCR meters are made by the Taiwanese. They also sell them under their own brand,DER EE.I just ordered one yesterday. Can't wait for it to arrive.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 01:19:50 am
content: You will not be disappointed. It will probably be your most accurate milli ohm meter also.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 05:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on August 28, 2013, 01:13:42 amThere is adifferent IC(red) and amissing coil/transformer(green).

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 06:28:39 pm
content: We use BK8540s and a BK8514 for ATX PSU testing. They work, and have survived and stayed accurate even when the PSUs under load have failed explosively.It is good to know that there's a cheaper version of the same hardware out there though. Might make sense for our RMA line; most of our B&K stuff is being handed down to them now we're looking into buying some Chroma equipment.