Eastern Europe (Hungary, Bulgaria) for PCB, PCBA, Injection molding etc. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: davidzweig
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 03:24:21 am
content: Hello. I started learning electronics on my own a couple of years ago, and I'm starting to look at how to go about putting my first project into production.It can be thought of as a kind of remote for a smartphone, with a speaker and microphone, for studying languages, accessing information and communicating without needing to use a screen.For prototyping, I'm using JLCPCB assembly, some hand-soldering, and an SLA printer for the plastics. Once the design is finalised, and I have a firmware working, I'll probably want to do a run of 500-2000 boards initially.I've spent some time in Shenzhen and I'm familiar with the costs there. I'm often in Hungary (and also Serbia, Ukraine), and I'm curious if it's possible to produce the device here. Here in Budapest, I've actually got two pcb assembly houses within 4km. (I found the companies here:https://smtnet.com/company/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse_companies&country=101). Bulgaria also comes up in discussions as a center for electronics, and it's a nice country that I wouldn't mind to spend some time in. China's ok, but flights, visa, living costs for 3-6 weeks etc. adds up.The board is 2-layer, 0402-scale components. The enclosure has modest tolerances. I'm most worried about being able to source reasonably priced components. There are some ~expensive ICs (Nordic nrf52, TDK gyro/acc), and, probably it won't be possible to get low-cost dome buttons, usb connectors, LEDs, battery charger ICs, lipos etc. as are available in China, or I suppose they must be imported, with import duties and VAT. I would probably want to ship directly to customer (likely using a warehouse to fulfill orders), and China might be a better base for that, although maybe someone like 4PX in the Czech Republic would work too. Shipping batteries is also a concern. I'm trying to make a low-cost product ($20-$25 retail).Today I sent emails to a handful of companies here in Hungary, I'll see what happens. I was wondering if anyone has some thoughts or experiences to chip in.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 05:39:06 am
content: These people used to manufacture in Bulgariahttps://www.olimex.com/.Looks like the PCB service got suspended at some point, but may be worth asking...

author: davidzweig
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 08:45:48 pm
content: Ah, thanks. I know about Olimex. I read this on their blog, which is interesting:"For everyone is clear that purchasing of STM32 chip through normal USA or EU distribution channels is expensive if you want to make mass product. The EU distributors are too fat and lazy to offer you anything which will allow you to build competitive product if you have to compete with far east manufacturers.So we at Olimex are forced to buy from Chinese distributors all ST and NXP chips for instance to may achieve better price for our final products. I guess many others do the same."https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/chinese-clones-attack-stm32-microcontrollers/It's why I'm concerned about getting low-cost parts in Europe.Actually, I'm also considering getting pcbs and 80% of the assembly done by JLCPCB (for the parts in their catalogue), importing them to EU, then placing the remaining parts myself using a prototyping pick and place machine, if I can find something cheap. This could work ok for small batches (100 or so at a time). Still not sure about lipo batteries though.

author: wilhe_jo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 10:06:32 pm
content: Hmmm..ST's 100k+ prices per ic (v-reg, uC, op-amp,...) are quite reasonable... No need to go to distributorsHowever, I'm totally with your observations for "lower" volumes.I'd love to hear from your experiences.73

author: davidzweig
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 09:27:24 pm
content: Today I met with Jozsef from Vision SMT for a couple of hours. Super nice guy, and very interesting conversation. Summary of the conversation:-- Noone is manufacturing PCBs in Hungary these days, they are ordered from the Far East.-- A big order for them is considered 30k+ boards, but they also do prototyping.-- Some components do need to be purchased in China to get good prices, other stuff can be sourced locally. They can help with sourcing (and might be able to get somewhat better deals, as a major purchaser, I guess).-- They do have a supplier for batteries, with the required certificates (needed for shipping). That's one less headache.-- VAT (27%) and import duties (0-3%) need to be paid on imported components, but can be refunded if they are to be re-exported (not sure how the rules work exactly, if it's exported to another EU country).-- They also do finally assembly, testing, can help with packaging etc.I also saw the factory. Compared to the lower-end PCBA places I visited around Shenzhen, this was a definately couple of steps up. Really nice setup and well organised. The company is on the teritory of the former 'Orion' company, that used to make electronics in socialist times. The 'Orion' name is used now for branding imported TVs and washing machines, and part of the factory is used as a distribution center, as I understand. That's a seperate business though.When I asked about pricing, and if it's feasible to assemble a low-cost, low volume (initially at least) device in Europe, he said that often their quotes aren't that different to Chinese assemblers. The factory is litterally on the same road where I go to the gym (5km away vs 10,000km), that's worth something. Also, no communication difficulties.I'm still developing the project, but later, it's an interesting option, probably if production numbers get higher.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 07:15:30 am
content: You can try a Slovakian PCB assembly house:http://amset.sk/Good service, we've been using them for years.They are pretty flexible, offering everything from turnkey (you send them gerbers and BOMs, you receive boards with components) to you supply everything (board, parts, stuff and you get the boards populated). Try having a chat with them

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 02:54:03 pm
content: Albacomp, Elektomont, Gémosz. Maybe Videoton.Most of these will do sourcing for you, and you just gonna send gerbers + BOM + pick & place.There are a wide variety of companies in Hungary. I know small companies, where you send a 1000 board, with manual patching instructions, and you get back in a week perfectly hand soldered and bodged boards to your spec.Other companies will make millions of assemblies for all the German cars or Japanese consumer electronics. There is really everything you can ever wish for.

author: DarkMoon
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 26, 2020, 09:54:54 pm
content: You could tryhttps://www.setpcb.bg/en- I've worked for and with them in the past, they used to make pcbs locally, but they closed that part and import from China, assembly is done locally. Last I've heard they've rolled out a new assembly linehttps://www.micron20.com/en- I've never worked with them, but people I've talked to are happy with the service.https://www.comet.bg/en/?cid=303- I've never heard of anyone using their services, I usually buy parts from them.I hope this is useful !