Quick 861DS / 861DW / 861DE / 861DA Nozzle Compability - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2017, 08:18:38 pm
content: Hello,I need to buy a new hot air station, and i will go for quick 861 this time, need a powerful and capable machine. My last was 20L/m and not able to do some jobs...1) I wonder if nozzles are compatible with each other models, since on website and datasheets are not clear. Some retail websites show under noozle title or description "**** for 861AE" if handle is equal shoud not be compatible with all? 861DW seems to have more nozzles in their datasheet, why?2) I think i will go 861DA version just because the included nozzles are angled and better to work under my microscope and also more powerful than the others versions. All other versions come with straight nozzles and i can't find the angled nozzles anywhere.Also i already have some universal nozzles from previous station, is there any adaptor i can use with quick to reuse them?3) I'm inside EU and DA version use UK plug, is power cable fixed or removable? Anyway if fixed i will cut UK plug and install a EU plug directly.4) 861DE use EU connector but again straight stock nozzles, there’s any other version I’m not aware with EU and angled nozzles?Regards

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2017, 08:44:59 pm
content: Nozzles are the same.I suggest to buy 1-120L/m airflow version unless you have a good reason to buy more powerful version. 6-200L/m versions have significant disadvantage, once you put it on stand it starts coolingl down at max airflow and is very noisy. Also it takes more time for blower to spin up/down what according to what I've heard is pain in the ass if you place handpiece on stand and want to use it again before it completely cools down. It takes too much time to spin down and may blow off parts. Power cable is not removable. Using angled nozzles is ridiculous IMO. Useful if your hands aren't straight or you or want to use under microscope with low focus distance. Maybe makes sense for largest nozzle.EDIT: Strange, I googled and found DA version with larger diameter heater and apparently different nozzles. But here it is the same:http://www.ams-electronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Quick-861DA-TDS.pdf

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2017, 09:05:58 pm
content: 861DE (200l/m) has the same nozzles as 120l/m versions. Seems that particularly DA has thicker heater and different nozzles.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2017, 11:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 16, 2017, 08:44:59 pmMost of the time i use on SMD small to medium components, my Int998 performs very well with a stable temperature but the problem comes with large components like decent BGA or heatshinks, for example a SEMS20 (TV BGA Chip) it's hard to remove, and i use a IR bottom heater at 160ºc, without a nozzle the airflow is barely noticeable at 23l/m, thats why i'm thinking get DA or DE, in this case 200l/m. But i don't need the 200l for sure.Can you tell me what profiles do you use for Lead Free? And what was the max airflow setting you ever used with a component?My Int998 can blow away components even at minimum airflow setting with a 0.4mm nozzle + sticky flux, so can i imagine this station at max airfow...The 120l/m versions will not enter in stand by mode once put in stand too?Why Angled nozzles are ridiculous? I always have used straight ones, my current problem is the microscope, AmScope SM-4TP have a max of 10cm focal range and i have a barrow len of 0.5x so i can get 20cm, but currently is at 15cm because of my height. Don't get me wrong, it's easy to air solder things under the microscope but the handpiece will never fit vertical under microscope, so i always solder at an angle resulting in component blowing sometimes (The one i'm currently soldering, not the others), even with sticky flux gel the component will move a bit, so i wish the air push it down instead of moving it horizontaly.For what i have understand nozzles are all compatible except for DA verson right?My workbench (Clean, first days):(Now)Quote from: wraper on September 16, 2017, 09:05:58 pmI saw that video before posting, the cooling is very fast and i think my Int998 is even noisier.What are the WD and DS differences? Only the plug?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2017, 12:02:07 pm
content: I usually set 300-360oC depending on board, component, preheating. I will use different temperature for plastic connector and MLCC. Temperature profile as settings on station side is a dubious thing unless you want to put temperature probe on PCB, put handpiece on stand and operate with buttons on the station, thus replacing single resistor for 15 minutes. It's more useful to vary nozzle-component distance, heat the board around and then part itself.For large BGA like chipset on motherboard this is a wrong tool. I rarely use more than 70l/m for replacing components unless it's something beefy. Most components will be just blown away.QuoteIt's the same but spins down faster. Example: you set 10l/m, put it on stand for 5 seconds, take it from stand again and blow with 200l/m onto your board. Or wait 5 seconds before it slows down to acceptable airflow. with 120l/m it slows down almost instantly.QuoteVery strange using large and very expensive mouse pads instead of ESD mat. Not ESD safe, I'd say even ESD unsafe. And not high temperature resistant.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2017, 12:13:05 pm
content: BTW, regarding blowing off parts. I find that for some reason it is much more difficult to blow the parts off or melt connectors when using 861DS compared with cheap stations like Aoyue.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2017, 08:23:39 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 17, 2017, 12:02:07 pmLooks the same temps i use with my Int998, 300ºc for plastic connectors, ic glue, small chips like iPhone ICs passives, etc, and 350-375ºc to large things or large heatshink.I'm aware of display temps are not always true, depeding on distance and nozzle we use it will behave differently. I always use a temp probe when need to remove large BGA that require more heat and time.Quote from: wraper on September 17, 2017, 12:02:07 pmGood that you say that, because I also need an good IR Station, i like Ersa tools but very expensive to me, i'm looking for and ACHI IR PRO SC, is that any good or you have better recommendation? Need something good Quality/price thats not a junk.QuoteAh I thought when you put it on stand at 10l/m and take it again it set at 10l/m from start and not max speed (The way my Int998 works), so in that case i'm with you.Your information lot better than Quick websiteQuoteYou are correct and they are horrible to ESD xD, that mouse pads was just to cover the bench at first, if you look second pic you can notice ESD heat pads up to 500ºc, i always work in top of them, mouse pads was only to support the wireless mouse i use sometimes. But my plan is to replace them with a thin ESD heat mat just to cover the bench and then the ones i use in top. But i can't find anything at my taste, Like a big rectangular mat without any draws or slots, just a simple and plane mat...Quote from: wraper on September 17, 2017, 12:13:05 pmYeah good tools make the difference for sure.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 11:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on September 17, 2017, 08:23:39 pmDunno if it''s good or not. But I can say that large preheater is important part of such station. Ideally it should heat a whole board. Some boards are really nasty, they warp while reflowing, and large preheater can greatly reduce this issue.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2017, 03:21:49 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on September 16, 2017, 08:18:38 pm1. The Quick 861Dx models all use the NK xxxx series nozzles (100% friction fit, no screw clamp or pin & notch means of fixing them). There's a convenient removal tool built into the stand, but you'll want to get a heat resistant rubber pad to put nozzles on a hot element as they don't include one IME (running or not). Worst case, they're inexpensive if you need one.2. AFAIK and have seen, the 861 models only come with 3 straight round nozzles; no angled or other specialty versions at all. That said, I've not found the need to purchase either angled or specialty nozzles (I've had an 861DW for a few years now). Regarding a microscope, just hold it at an angle. Keep in mind, I typically only use hot air to desolder using tweezers or a vacuum pen to lift the part (don't even need magnification for this). I much prefer to solder them with an iron using the drag technique, which is rather easy to do under a microscope, and gives excellent results (trick = use enough flux).When using hot air however (regardless of solder/desolder or magnification), I've found making heat shields out of thin sheet metal to be more useful than specialty nozzles.3. No. The power cords are fixed (IIRC, they draw too much current than IEC ratings are designed for). So if you get a 220/230/240V model with the wrong plug, you'll only need a simple adapter to make it work; or if you prefer, cut the plug end off and replace with the appropriate one (easy & inexpensive if you find yourself in this position).The US version is also possible, but not cost effective (either requires a different transformer + heating element, or rewinding both to get the specs right for your input voltage to avoid buying parts). Technically doable, but not recommended IMHO.That said, I've seen 861DW models listed for 220V mains on aliexpress (here).Quick's site makes no mention of the DA or DS models, but that's what's shown up on UK and EU sites respectively (particularly Poland for the latter for some reason). I wouldn't worry about it; just make sure you're getting a 220/230/240V version from the seller if you decide to buy one.4. No. See #2.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2017, 04:02:16 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on September 16, 2017, 11:21:51 pmYes they do (stand has magnets in it).They just don't go as high on airflow, which isn't an issue IME (low airflow for components, higher airflow for heat shrink or softening stickers type of stuff). So I don't seen any need to go for the higher powered models (1.2kW or 1.3kW versions at a LOT more money), unless you're working on boards with many layers that use large power & ground planes.Even then, you'd be able to get an 861Dx + an inexpensive preheater for less than the more powerful brethren anyway and have the same capabilities (orverysimilar if there's a short-coming due to the 1kW rating of the 861 models).Regarding working under a microscope, see previous post.BTW, JBC makes such things readily available. And although they're not horribly priced for what they are, they're not inexpensive either. Much less expensive to DIY your own (rivets are a quick, easy, and inexpensive way to attach the two ends together).Quote from: wraper on September 16, 2017, 08:44:59 pmAgreed.FWIW, my unit appears to have the same handle (and presumably heating element) as the larger 1.2kW & 1.3kW versions. Definitely some time passed between your and my units manufacture dates. The sticker on the rear states it's a 1kW station. And though I've not tested this to be certain, I've not found the need to purchase a Kill-A-Watt to confirm this, as it's handled everything I've thrown at it (with or without preheating).Regarding preheating, I tend to err on the side of caution though. So if I even remotely think the board could warp or the station can't handle it, I set it over my cheap-o preheater first (I figure"why not, I have one"mentality).Quote from: sn4k3 on September 16, 2017, 11:21:51 pmAngled nozzles aren't ridiculous at all IMHO. Just not absolutely necessary, even when working under a microscope (see above). Just use the microscope for inspection after drag soldering.If you're absolutely dead-set on using hot air under a microscope however, the angled nozzles will make things easier, shields or not (DIY or purchased). Regarding blowing parts out of alignment/off the board, the trick is to reduce the airflow; magnification or not. You don't need high airflow settings to melt the solder (actually the lower the airflow, the closer the air is to the set temp as a general rule). So I find higher airflow is only useful for heatshrink tubing and removing stickers (you'll warp plastic/remove paint if it's set too hot).QuoteFrom what I've seen, there's no difference other than input voltages and plugs regarding the 861 models from what's currently being manufactured.wraper's Quick 861 has a different handle, and presumably a different heating element than mine as well (his looks the same as that used on the 957D for example). While mine has the same handle as the more expensive 855 & 856 models (these use an element cartridge that includes the stainless steel outer tube). Found the 220/230/240V replacement element for these on aliexpress for $63.That said, do keep in mind his has served him well (and is continuing to do so).So regardless of the particulars of the handle (NOS or right off the assy. line), it will perform well.QuoteIME, the DW version is for the US market (110V input = different transformer + different heating element). While the DA or DS models only vary in regard to the plug (both = 220V input).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2017, 08:33:10 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 20, 2017, 04:02:16 amDW also has 220V version. Quick is really strange in their model numbering / region availability. As I said, DA has thicker heater and uses different nozzle system, nozzle is put on and fixed by rotating it with a special key. Apparently the same nozzle system seem to be used in Quick 2008, 858D, 885.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2017, 01:01:15 pm
content: I have choosen the DW version. Now on PL websites they only have the DW, at least the title changed to DW and they are 220V.About aliexpress the DW is always 220V, there are articles where you can choose 120V but they say in description need to be built, will take some days and normal version is 220V. What a messSome day we will see DW version with EU plug too or randomAbout NK nozzles they are very hard to find, even on aliexpress can only found the default nozzles but not BGA or QFP or Others.So i will get the NK-850 adaptor and use my universal nozzles when neededSnapfit:About my uses, i use hot air most with BGA chips or to desolder other chips.I always use iron or tweezers when i can, unfortunately i can't use drag solder on BGAThey must release BGA Thru hole spec with tiny pins

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2017, 08:43:27 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 20, 2017, 08:33:10 amTalk about confusing.Good to know the details though, so thanks.Quote from: sn4k3 on September 20, 2017, 01:01:15 pmSounds like a plan.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 03:08:30 pm
content: Ok, 861DW arrived 3 days ago, very well packed, came with the 4 nozzles (1 is adaptor) and is EU plugI'm really pleased, the only down side is the smell, like toxic plastic but it go away after 2 days with the window opened. Also it cause light flickering when ON and Working, main voltage variate 4V to 3V quickly, good LED bulb will not flicker which is what i use here. Maybe the powerfull heater when ON/OFF to regulate temperature is causing this.Handle come with some dents and small marks, like used thing but i don't care in here.If anyone interested i have post an album on facebook (Public, no login):https://www.facebook.com/pg/PTRTECH/photos/?tab=album&album_id=287473531736827

author: MichalJ5
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 06:53:34 pm
content: Looks really great!Where did you order it from in the end?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 08:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: MichalJ5 on September 28, 2017, 06:53:34 pmThank youeleshop.nl

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 09:19:37 pm
content: Did you calibrate it, or was it that spot on OTB?I wish they included the NK-850 here.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 11:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 28, 2017, 09:19:37 pmDid not calibrate, but i will to hit the temperature i set at the distance i work.I capture that temperature at very near from nozzle.The adaptor was included with the article, and if not i would had buy anyway, but you can buy it separate.Nozzles are hard to find, the NK series even on Aliexpress only exist the stock ones. So i just need the adaptor and i can use all universal nozzles i had

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 12:30:02 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on September 28, 2017, 11:40:16 pmMy main desire is to be able to use it with angled round nozzles, which they don't offer in the NK series based on the nozzle .pdf on their global site. So it seems I'll either have to buy more round ones and see if I can bend them without crushing the tubes if I can't find a source for that adapter.At least the round ones are inexpensive.FWIW, for anyone looking forNK Series Nozzles, PAC (gotopac.com) offers the full line. Do note not all are in-stock at the time of posting, and I presume they special order them for customers as needed.No listing for the NK-850 adapter though. I guess I should send off an email and see if they can help me.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 01:08:41 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 29, 2017, 12:30:02 amI have order some bent nozzles from Aliexpress to use with Quick.Still i will not give my money to the NK nozzles, they are expensive and after all i can use the nozzles i want with the adaptor.All nozzle collection you saw on my image cost 17 EUR from chinaQuoteEDIT: Nevermind, you from US... Still i bet someone sell that adaptor in US and if don't why not import from UK or Poland? From Portugal send to US something like that cost about 6€ with full tracked

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 01:29:06 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on September 29, 2017, 01:08:41 amI've been looking at sources I'm aware of to no avail. And the only source thus far is the link you posted above (so thanks BTW).Maybe they just don't sell?

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 01:43:59 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 29, 2017, 01:29:06 amThe adaptor is a bless but can be part of the marketing, if no adaptor exist you need to stick and buy original nozzles

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 02:54:01 am
content: Quote from: sn4k3 on September 29, 2017, 01:43:59 amActually I suspect it's a newer offering than what's listed on the NK series nozzle list. It may even be their intention to reduce the NK series' nozzles down to a shorter list and let the adapter be used with the A series/universal nozzles readily available.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2017, 03:56:06 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 29, 2017, 02:54:01 amI only saw this offer once, in the website i have orderd.