Low cost electric desoldering pump -which one? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2017, 10:52:02 pm
content: For desoldering components (through hole, single or double sided PCBs) I've been using my Japanese Goot GS-158 solder sucker with limited success.With a lot of patience I've gotten the job done, but at the cost of risking damage to the PCB because of repeated attempts etc. I've also tried a soldering wick, adding new solder etc. but am looking for a better method. The aim is to remove the components, preferrably without damaging them, and definitely not damaging the PCB.Mind you, I'm an occasional electronics hobbyist, so I can't jusify the cost for "pro" type equipment. So what I've come across is this30W electric desoldering vacuum pump from eBayat around US$ 25:As usual you probably get what you pay for, but if it does the job better than the manual solder sucker (better as in heating up the solder joint once and sucking the solder away, bringing minial stress to the PCB) then it'll do. Judging by, it seems to do the job pretty well.Another option (even cheaper) is a manual, but heated solder sucker such as the40W Duratool D01849for around US$ 8 from electronics distributor Farnell NOTE: I'm not sure 40W is correct as it seems like a generic item available many places but with 30W power. 30W or 40W won't make that much difference, will it? Being sold through Farnell it might just be a little safer built (electrically) than the eBay one although an electrical pump seems tempting.Has anyone here tried any of the above? What would you recommend?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 08:11:45 am
content: IMHO, 30 or 40w is not enough to remove components on modern pcb with ground planes.you need 50 or 60w for this, or you will never go to the melting point.one can try the 2 options you provide, with the help of another soldering iron ?

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 08:52:59 am
content: Thanks, but those discussions are about the much more expensive desoldering stations and not the ultra-cheap solutions i'm looking for. Searching for info on the subject has so far been fruitless, so I suppose most people here either splurge for the expensive brand names (Hakko etc.) or the eBay Chinese knockoffs. If I was in the market for something like that I'd probably buy a used Hakko or another renowned name-brand instead.But I'm not, so anything that works better than my current method (soldering iron and manual solder-sucker) will do.The PCBs in question are mostly audio gear from the 80s/90s and I haven't noticed any huge ground planes causing problems when heating up with my small 30W soldering iron. But the combination of soldering iron + manual solder sucker just hasn't worked for me.As for AC-voltage range, we're on 230V here. I know the 30W electric vacuum type (the big blue one pictured earlier in this thread) has beensold as a 110V unit while in reality is for 220, as per these Amazon user-comments.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2017, 12:06:59 pm
content: If you ask me, you don't need another desoldering pump, but changing your techniques (and possibly soldering iron as well!)Never had a problem with a wick, and I rarely use a pump (unless there's excessive solder to remove).I'm gonna touch base on the key points here:1. The temperature of the soldering iron!A lot of unregulated irons don't get hot enough for proper desoldering work.You'd be best using a temperature controlled soldering station over a plain iron.350C is generally ideal for soldering, and 370C for desoldering.2. The tip of the soldering iron!The bigger the tip, the more heat it can carry (and this makes a huge difference when desoldering!).The standard conical tip is crap for that purpose.3. Flux! Flux is essential for desoldering.The flux you have built-in inside your soldering wire is in very small quantities and doesn't compare in any way.So simply applying fresh solder to an old joint for desoldering work is not very efficient.What you should do is apply a bit of flux (with a tooth pick), put a wick on top of it, and then the iron on top of that.4. Technique and other required tools. With a lot of components (such as capacitors/resistors/diodes/triacs), it's often easier to remove the component first, and then clean up the solder. You could heat up one leg at a time, and gently pull it out from the other side of the board.Or in cases of a triac/voltage regulator/mosfet, just put the iron sideways (after applying flux) to heat up all the legs at once and then pull it out with tweezers. Also, having a third hand device (that holds the circuit board in place and let's you have both hands free is extremely helpful!)You should have a set of good tweezers, and solder assist tools (SA-10), which also help. The most common solder assist tool I use is the one for opening solder joints. In some cases, it can be very difficult to fully clear out the solder from the joint, but with this tool, I simply put it from one side of the board, then heat it up from the other, and viola!Follow my advice, and your desoldering experience will improve dramatically!

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 09:12:22 am
content: You definitely have some good points there, RayRay!1) soldering iron temperature: maybe it's time to get another one. I've been considering a soldering station, but being expensive and taking up extra room I've put it off, but perhaps an adjustable temperature controlled soldering iron would be suitable, and something in between a regular soldering iron and a soldering station. ThisGoot PX-201is rated at 70W and you can adjust the temperature between 270 C and 450 C.Would it be a good choice? They sell them atToolboom (US$ 43 + shipping), but being based in Hong Kong, does anyone know if they sell the real thing or would I risk getting a fake Chinese version instead? I've never ordered from them before, and it seems like a suitable option as ordering from Amazon etc. usually means a hefty shipping cost as I'm not in the US or UK.2) soldering-iron tip: I actually thought of this myself, so I changed the (sharp, conical "standard" type) tip to one that was flat on one side. That helped a little, but I also find it hard to insert the solder-sucker in amongst IC pins etc. while melting the solder which is why I've looked into those desoldering tools where you actually get a soldering iron with a hollow tip that will suck the solder away: a 2-in-1 solution! I would imagine that working better and also easier to do.Is that a valid point, or just don't they work that well in real life?3) I've never used flux before, so I'm going to try that out.4) Yeah, technique is probably 80-90% of it. Resistors, capacitors etc. aren't too bad (even with double-sided PCBs) and I've used the method of heating up and pulling one side at a time a lot. But with 3 or more legs (transistors, ICs) it's a lot harder. It's really a race against time since I don't want to heat up the PCB traces too many times so as to damage it, so I'm looking for a way to get it right the first time. Oh, these are mostly double-sided PCBs as well, which IMHO makes it twice as hard to desolder.You mentioned the SA-10, is this what you mean (Goot SA-10 solder assist tools)?:Looks handy although I've been fine with pliers (I also have tweezers, but so far haven't seen any need for them) and small flat jewel type screwdrivers. But this probably works even better and doesn't cost a fortune (US$ 15.50 + shipping at Toolboom)

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2017, 11:48:24 am
content: 1. Not all soldering stations are expensive, and I'd recommend you get the Bakon 950D:http://www.banggood.com/BAKON-950D-75W-Mini-Portable-Digital-Soldering-Station-with-T12-Tip-p-982824.html?rmmds=searchIt's compatible with T12 tips, which can also be purchased fairly cheap:http://www.banggood.com/search/t12.htmlI'd say you should use T12-D24 for most stuff, and T12-ILS for SMD work.Use 0.8 MM solder for standard works, and 0.4/0.5 for SMD work (avoid the lead-free stuff, as it's more difficult to work with)As for the iron you've asked about (Goot PX-201) I don't like it, it's powered directly from the mains, and from what I've seen (some hour long review on youtube) it has very poor thermal heat transfer.2. Proper use of a soldering sucking pump means heating up the joint, and immediately putting the pump on top of it pressing down and pushing the button... If you're putting it from an angle on the side, that's not the correct way to use it. But still, wick is far better in most cases.I rarely use the pump (unless I have to remove excessive solder, then I use both) as said before, skip adding fresh solder to the joint, just put a reasonable amount of flux, wick on top of it, and then the iron. And yes, it's easier to desolder with an electric desoldering iron (I.E S-993A), but it's really not that much more difficult without it. If you use the right kind of equipment, have patience, and willingness to learn and practice, you'll eventually get the hang of it.3. You definitely should!It makes a huge difference, and can also be used for the soldering process (to make prettier joints)Personally, I use this one:http://www.banggood.com/NC-559-ASM-TPF-Flux-Anti-Wet-No-Clean-100g-Cream-AMTECH-Solder-Paste-p-975156.html?rmmds=searchDo note though that Fluxes are quite sticky, so when opening it, I'd suggest you lift up the translucent cap with some toilet paper and place it with the inner side on top, that's what I do so it wont get my fingers sticky. Anyhow, it'd leave a translucent residue around the joint you're working with, which you could leave as-is, but I'd recommend cleaning it (with alcohol of 90% or better and some q-tips)4. I think you'd find that with the right iron, temperature, tip , flux, third hand device and some practice it'd be a lot easier!Also, another useful way to desolder some things is to create a solder bridge across all pins (to heat up all of em at once), which makes it easier to pull em out. And yes, that's what I meant, but I wouldn't pay $15 for solder assist tools:http://www.banggood.com/BK-120-6-in-1-Solder-Assist-Repairing-Tools-Set-for-Cellphone-Electronics-p-1105969.html?rmmds=search

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 05:10:14 pm
content: While not exactly cheap, I use a Hakko 808 which is absolutely fantastic. I never had any luck with those stupid spring loaded solder sucker things, they're useless IMO. With the 808 I can pull a 40 pin DIP from a double sided board in under a minute, I hardly even use sockets anymore since it's so easy to desolder ICs.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 08:54:03 pm
content: Quote from: RayRay on April 03, 2017, 11:48:24 amHey, that's quite a compact soldering station and could go in my toolbox (instead of taking up valuable shelf-space as with most soldering stations)But I'm sceptical of all these cheap Chinese electrical gadgets (which is ironic as I suggested getting one of those eBay electrical solder suckerswhich I realized and wondered if I should get that electrical manual desoldering sucker from Farnell instead -it's definitely made in China like the rest, but at least there's got to be some sort of quality/safety control involved then).So is the Bakon yet another clone of something, or something as seldom as an actual quality design on its own?So T12 is the standard Hakko uses for tips, isn't it? And this means you basically get a cheap "almost Hakko" soldering station, especially if you use genuine Hakko tips?QuoteExcuse my ignorance, but what's the problem with powering an iron directly from the mains? Does it have to do with electrostatic protection for sensitive components?I couldn't find any English reviews on this iron, but loads of Russian ones -do you have the link? I'm not sure what you mean by "poor thermal transfer" -does it mean that the tip doesn't carry as much heat as it should, effectively making this a less powerful iron than it's actually supposed to be, according to its specs?QuoteYeah, that's what I've tried. Perhaps as you say my existing iron is too weak for proper desoldering which I assume means it doesn't fully a joint's solder in its entirety. And I haven't used any flux either.Assuming I have a powerful enough iron and flux, should it be relatively unproblematic to suck out a hole's solder from both sides in one go, and without damaging the PCB?QuoteI guess that' answered my above questionQuoteThat would be great for all the ICs I'm removing. Is that like a soldering iron tip with a flat "iron" you use to touch all the pins simultaneously? I suppose you need a pretty powerful iron for that sort of thing.QuoteThanks. Seems like a "must have" along with the flux.Now, if I could only find a good quality, safe, compact and not too expensive soldering iron.... too bad that PX-201 doesn't appear to live up to its hype. Surely its build is a lot better than the Chinese knock-offs though.

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 09:00:21 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 04, 2017, 05:10:14 pmImpressive! If there was a way to rent one I'd do that and get my desoldering needs done in one go (I'm servicing some old, long time unused electronic musical gear), but I don't know of any such option.I understand the Hakko 808 is the former version of the current RF-300, right? They cost US$ 470/EUR 440 over here, so not exactly something for the occasional hobbyist desoldering needs... I haven't been able to find anything used either.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 09:17:44 pm
content: When I bought my 808 a few years ago it was $200. I'm sure there are some Chinese clones and similar devices that are reasonably ok. I've just never used one personally.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 11:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on April 04, 2017, 08:54:03 pmI think you're being a bit harsh on the Chinese here to be honest.You do realize that most electronics are made there nowadays (as well as plenty of other things), right? Even iphones are made there!Just because something is made in China, it doesn't mean it's of poor quality, but doesn't guarantee it's of good quality either.Personally, I've experienced both good and bad Chinese products, so each case to it's own.Anyhow, I wouldn't really say it's a clone (as it doesn't attempt to directly imitate another soldering station), but it's made to work with Hakko T12 tips (and not custom made tips by the same manufacturer), so I guess you could say it's not a 100% original product.But with that being said, despite it's low price, it has very good reviews all across the board, and seems to provide a good value for money.And yes, you could use original Hakko tips with it, but it's not a must if you ask me. Even non-original tips can work well, and it's not like you're gonna have much problems with em. On Hakko 936 knockoff stations for example, the diameter of the heating element & internal diameter of non-original tips varies greatly, which creates a problem with heat transfer (due to the air gap). You're not gonna have that here (as T12 tips have the heating element integrated, so it's an all in one solution, and fits tightly enough on the handle) which means no issues of proper heat transfer.Quote from: analogix on April 04, 2017, 08:54:03 pmWell, it doesn't really pose a risk to the components you're working with (as long as it's 3pin and grounded at least)But think about it this way, you're holding a device (of a fairly small diameter, and made of mostly plastic) in your hand, which is powered by dangerously high voltage... Most of the time, you'd probably be fine, but if you'd get really unlucky and at some point it'd malfunction (and again, you're holding it in your hand), you could end up with burn marks, electric shock, or get electrocuted!The odds of this to happen are not that big I guess, but the risk is there nonetheless.And here's the link to the PX201 review:Code:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vRKJauJeB4It's in Russian, but as they say, a picture (or video in this case) is worth a thousand words!Just look at the dude working on circuit boards with it in various parts of the video, where it can barely melt the solder!It just doesn't look very promising.Quote from: analogix on April 04, 2017, 08:54:03 pmNo, by solder bridge, I meant you should apply a lot of solder, so it'd practically cover all the pins in a single line (so when touched by the iron, all of em would get heated at the same time, so you could pull/lift em all up at once). Flux can also make it easier to create a soldering bridge btw.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 11:22:19 pm
content: Quote from: RayRay on April 04, 2017, 11:02:33 pmChina is certainly capable of making very good quality gear, but the problem is there is a HUGE black/gray market and a big problem of counterfeit equipment and parts. You may get something that is really good, or you may get something that is complete garbage, and unless you buy through a reputable and well controlled channel you don't really know what you're going to get until you get it. Often times production is outsourced to China in order to cut costs, and some companies cut too far and quality suffers.I will pay a premium for good quality equipment built in a country that has a standard of living, environmental regulations, worker protection, etc comparable to my own.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2017, 11:46:10 pm
content: Quote from: analogix on April 01, 2017, 10:52:02 pmI have a Metcal desoldering tool that I acquired second-hand recently, and looks very similar to the above. I suspect that it is the Metcal that all of the similar ones are clones of. It's 34W, made of top notch materials (for example, the solder collector/vacuum chamber feels like Delrin) and has that 'made right' feel. When you release the sucker it goes 'thuuum' rather than the 'tink' you get with the cheaper models. It works well enough that I don't really feel the need for a pump powered sucker and is a massive improvement over trying to desolder with an iron and either seperate pump or solder wick. If the clones are accurate ones then they ought to work well.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 05:59:42 am
content: Quote from: analogix on April 04, 2017, 09:00:21 pmLocation?

author: analogix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 06:51:36 am
content: Quote from: RayRay on April 04, 2017, 11:02:33 pmYes, you're quite right.I was mostly pointing a finger at the stuff made in China by Chinese companies. They don't seem to put too much effort into design, safety and quality, but cut corners in every way the possibly can. Until very recently I had yet to find a Chinese product which was designed by a Chinese company and not being a clone. My recently purchasedJYEtechDIY mini oscilloscope is actually a Chinese design (as far as I know) and they themselves are plagued with cheaper clones being made of their own products! It seems to be of reasonable quality.I don't know if it's a Chinese design, but I hear that thisTS100 soldering iron with an OLED digital displayis quite good. I didn't find a review butan EEVblog threaddiscussing it.I do have a preference for Japanese or German products though -with very few exceptions you can be sure you're getting quality instead of the guesswork. Unfortunately Hakko and other renowned brands here are too expensive for a hobbyist's budget.QuoteBy clone I meant basically stealing another design and reselling it as their own. Being compatible with someone else's parts is another thing.QuoteMaybe something to consider then. I'll see if I can find any reviews (the ones here are usually very good and thorough).QuoteNever thought of it that way, but it makes sense of course.QuoteHmmmm.... looks like he doesn't take very good care of his equipment, and it's definitely not something which he just unpacked and tried out for the first time. It could be due to a dirty/worn out tip, and we don't know what temperature setting the iron is set on. It does seem a little strange that a renowned brand iron has problems melting solder, so I take this with a little grain of salt.

author: carlmart
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 11:07:49 am
content: Interesting thread. Let's hope the original participants are still around, or I'll have to open a new topic.Desoldering is delicate task, and it seems I have tried the three basic ones: using a separate pump, using a Radio Shack desoldering iron and using a wick.The quicker and most effective has been the RS desoldering iron, which now it's hard to find. It's available on eBay, but they charge you more than the cost to air-mail ship it to Brazil.My concern, when I desolder, is the heat affecting the pcb trace and the component, particularly the latter. On some cases I want to re-use it, so it's important not to ruin it.In that sense, the RS desolder iron was very fast and clean. It sucked all the solder usually on the first try, leaving a clean pad and wire, with minimum heat results.Recently I bought this tool from eBay:https://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-Electric-Vacuum-Solder-Sucker-Desoldering-Pump-Welding-Iron-Gun-Tools-US/142084347157A disaster! It simply melted the plastic cylinder that goes from the sucking tool into the heating element. That is after a half hour work.It might be the voltage, which my 110/220v transformer took up to 240v, but such variation (less than 10%) should be expected on the heating element. The plastic does get very hot and you have to be careful.There's another similar tool by Velleman that might be better. but the feedback comments are not too reassuring.Then there's this one:https://www.ebay.com/p/30w-Iron-Soldering-Gun-Electric-Welding-Solder-110-Volts-2-n-1-Desoldering-Pump/1031373526?iid=331241289772But the heating problems on the handle seem present too. It has one thing on its favor though: it's 110v.The other contender is the dark blue one shown on the first post:https://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-220V-50Hz-Electric-Vacuum-Solder-Sucker-Desoldering-Pump-Iron-Gun-Hand-Tool/253297330702?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3Ddeb287e8a829478bbed3628c1bb26f5a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D192380927937%26itm%3D253297330702&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851It's also 220v, which my transformer might take up to 240v. Maybe it goes down with load though.Other suggestions that do not involve wicks are welcome.

author: madcat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 11:12:00 am
content: Quote from: carlmart on February 16, 2018, 11:07:49 ami use both of them. well, not exactly the same for the first item (the orange color according to your link) as i'm in a country with 220v mains.my experience so far :- the dark blue is able to do everything the orange one could, more better job in fact. its electromagnet performs better than the spring mechanism.- i get more stability in handling with the dark blue one.- for desoldering lead-free solder, needs another soldering iron's help to melt the solder, or if possible, add some chipquik / Sn42 Bi58 solder to help lower the melting temp.- beware that the dark blue one will spit out the solder residue right after you release the button!hope that helps. sorry for my bad english.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2018, 07:18:11 pm
content: QuoteIf you're looking for an ultra cheap solution, you need to try a better solder sucker and a better soldering iron (or different tip).A good soldering iron with the right tip shape will provide the heat you need for most purposes. A good sucker will do the rest. That plus a sub $20.00 solder pot for the really tough multi pin thru hole jobs will do more for you than any cheap desoldering gun/station. For less $$ and less maintenance/hassle.The things you linked are all gimmicks. They might work ok, but they aren't the easiest or most cost effective long-term solutions, IMO. They are more for the guy who collects tools for the sake of it. If you want to get things done, then I wouldn't bother. There are better ways to use your bench space.

author: aabbcc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 10:37:24 am
content: I was having issues with a cheap no-name desoldering pump, switched up my game to thishttps://www.amazon.com/Engineer-SS-02-Solder-Sucker/dp/B002MJMXD4It's a bit expensive but really a godsend and makes such a differencePS: Their sidecutters are amazing as wellhttps://www.amazon.com/Engineer-NZ-12/dp/B001YHJHEI/ref=sr_1_85?srs=7504441011&ie=UTF8&qid=1520591798&sr=8-85

author: seanspotatobusiness
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 02:10:58 am
content: Quote from: aabbcc on March 09, 2018, 10:37:24 amThe only special thing about that tool seems to be the silicone tube piece at the end. I guess it would be cheap and easy to buy a piece of silicone tubing and modify every solder sucker you see. You might need to check the temperature tolerance of the tubing you buy though, 'cause I don't think it's all the same. Maybe a piece of heatshrink would work? I think crap might come off the heatshrink onto the soldering iron tip.Edit: I found that Adafruit sell "replacement" tubes relatively cheaply (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2476) although if the tube is really good for 350 °C (660 °F) then I'm not sure why you'd need replacements. I'm not sure they'd be wide enough to stretch onto a regular solder sucker but they might.Edit: These are the cheapest inc. postage that I've found in the UK:https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/replacement-silicone-nozzles-for-ss-02-solder-sucker.html@ £2.87 + 0.76