Which pic programmer? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 08:36:19 pm
content: I was wondering which PIC programmers are popular? Or can I get away with any cheapo USB programmer from the Shenzen market? Why would one benefit over another?Do I need special software written for each particular PIC programmer, or is there a generic software which will work with any programmer?I will also use it for updating existing firmware on a PIC, is this possible, or is a PIC non-writable once it is written?I'm new to PIC programming / firmware updating, so any pointers would be great...

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:03:03 pm
content: More problems are caused by cheap programmers than you can probably imagine. The software will be specific to a particular design of programmer.If you are lucky, your chosen chinese copy programmer will be 100% Microchip MPLAB compatible, but that's not the way to bet even if it claims to be. If you are unlucky, the time and parts you will waist will make you wish you had splashed out for one of Microchip's full price professional programmers.See: Reasons NOT to buy a ...! :http://www.microchip.com/forums/m592438.aspxPICnnF.... or PICnnLF.... devices are rewritable but PICnnC.... devices generally are not.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:20:19 pm
content: PicKit 3. It's absolutely shite, but is 'industry standard'. MPLAB IPE (installed alongside MPLAB X) allows the PK3 to program hex files from other compilers without having to build an MPLAB project.Take a look atwww.mikroe.com- extremely good for getting started with PICs. Their development boards have their own programmer built in.www.gooligum.com.auoffers some excellent PIC tutorials. Highly recommended. Used to be free, I think they are minimal cost. I know it's a pain in the arse paying for things, but they are extremely good. Invaluable even. The free one will give you enough info you need to start using the PK3 with MPLAB:http://www.gooligum.com.au/PIC-tutorials/baseline-PIC-tutorial

author: mrkev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:35:45 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on April 01, 2015, 09:03:03 pmSo you wouldn't recommend any DIY programmer at all? I am using AVRs for a loong time (over 10 years) but I was thinking about trying something with PICs recently. After all, they start at half the price of the most basic AVRs.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:44:31 pm
content: QuotePickit2, or pickit3 if you have to program the latest and greatest from microchip.

author: eejake52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:47:45 pm
content: You can get some boards that come with a PIC that has a pre-programmed boot-loader, in which case you wouldn't need any programmer. But for all other scenarios, you need a programmer that you KNOW will work - so I concur with the recommendation of the PicKit 3. You can get it for under $50 at Digikey.You have to use software that is compatible with the programmer that you buy. The software that comes with the PK3 is mediocre, but it is frequently updated to accommodate the latest chips form Microchip.Even if you have uC experience, I wouldn't recommend a DIY programmer as your first PIC project.Most of the newer PIC microcontrollers use flash memory, so they can be reprogrammed in the the target circuit;i.e. right in your project.Jake

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:52:24 pm
content: I personally haven't had any problems with a simple parallel port adapter...

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:57:08 pm
content: Dumb bit-banged DIY PIC programmers require a PC with legacy ports and preferably pre Windows 7, 32 bit (or Linux) to operate reliably. USB=>serial or parallel adapters almost invariably cant be bit-banged reliably at high speeds.Smart programmers pose the classic chicken and egg problem - How do you program the PIC that controls the programmer?Unless you build a PICkit 2 or 3 clone, it wont be MPLAB compatible and clones using different components can be incredibly fussy to get working so there is little if any cost saving to be made without severely compromising features and no. of PICs supported. (e.g fixed target Vdd clones)It al comes down to: Do you want to spend your time learning about PICs or learning about building PIC programmers? (And the latter is tough if you don't have a known good programmer to verify against).N.B. while MikroElektronika have some very nice development boards, their programmers don't play well with 3rd party toolchains including anything from Microchip. Its classic vendor lockin . . .

author: mrkev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 11:29:03 pm
content: Quote from: eejake52 on April 01, 2015, 09:47:45 pmI don't know about OP, but for me, I just don't have 50$ right now, as a between jobs part time student... It is basically half of my rent. The whole point for me to try PICs out would be saving money (and learn something new). For 50$, I can buy fifty ATMega16s and be supplied for several years, still using much more powerful uC than I need in most applications...Quote from: Ian.M on April 01, 2015, 09:57:08 pmOk, so is it possible to get working and reliable PICkit 2/3 clone schematic and program data? I've build several programmers for AVR and there was always someone that I could borrow the programer from and program the main chip.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 11:37:55 pm
content: Pickit 2 is pretty open, googke Pickit 2 clone. Maybe $10 of parts, hex file is also available.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 12:12:41 am
content: A day of casual labour will make you enough for a reputable PICkit 3 clone that will handle all Microchip's current product range unless you are living in a 3rd world country. If you build a 5V only PICkit 2, it will cost you about half as much *IF* it works first time. If it doesn't you are out the extra debugging time + the cost of whatever parts you burn up. It will only support a small fraction of their current product range.If you have next to no money and a PC with a legacy parallel port running an older Windows version, David Tait's classic parallel programmer design is dirt cheap, reliable, easy to build and get working. I favour the 7407 + PNP transistors variant and used to use it with DL4YHF's WinPIC software. Also see WxPIC and numerous other alternative programs that support it.Don't bother with JDM, COM84 or other dumb serial programmers - there just aren't enough output lines on a 9 pin PC serial port to handle the ICSP protocol correctly for devices that can be configured to disable /MCLR.

author: sean0118
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 04:53:27 am
content: I've got the PICKit3 here, no trouble at all so far.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 05:09:12 am
content: Quote from: LektroiD on April 01, 2015, 08:36:19 pmi have both pickit2 and avr mkII clone programmer, i have few stock of pic and avr mcus. i tried to use the pic mcu first for anything because its abysimal in cpu performance (Fcpu = Fosc / 4), more often i wish i switch to avr mcu for faster performance. so what i suggest is get avr programmer, i bought clone because no original in ebay that time, some say price about the same. pic is good when it come to adc because the conversion is fast. arm can be faster cpu but i'm not sure i havent program one (i also have j-link segger clone as well but never use it). i also not sure if arm has soic 8 pins or sot23 6 pins variation because small mcu is fun to program and can fit almost anywhere. ymmv.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 06:17:36 am
content: First of all: screw Microchip, use ARM. ARM is better than PIC in probably every aspect.That being said: get a genuine Microchip Pickit 2 or 3. If you only need to work on older stuff, then PK2 is fine, otherwise get a PK3. There are also fairly good clones of both being sold by Sure Electronics in China, but they are not much cheaper than genuine ones. Before it became customary to include a useful debugger on devboards such as Kinetis Freedom or STM32 Discovery, Pickit used to be a good example that you can sell a fully-featured ebugger at reasonable price.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 09:10:25 am
content: Quote from: LektroiD on April 01, 2015, 08:36:19 pmIt is possible to reprogram some Pic chips, it depends on the type, some are one time programmable only.As a beginner to micros expect you will be looking at the the more basic chips, so a simple PicKit2 would work best, though its officially obselete, there are still some genuine new ones around, or far east clones.They all use Microchips software, but a few clones / diy kits do use their own firmware so would avoid any of them.You could get a Pk3 for almost the same price but theycanbe problematic for someWould also suggest you look at starting with MpLab IDE V8.92 instead of the newer MplabX which again can cause some folk a lot of problems and is really geared for using as Pk3.WWW.SecureSoftwareList/secsoftwaredownload.aspx?device=en019469#]http://www.microchip.com/Microchip.WWW.SecureSoftwareList/secsoftwaredownload.aspx?device=en019469#http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/microchip-pickit-2-starter-kit-97-0101http://uk.farnell.com/microchip/pg164120/programmer-pickit-2-full-speed/dp/9847170?MER=bn-me-ca-r3-reco-all-1http://uk.farnell.com/microchip/pg164130/debugger-pickit-3-usb-programmer/dp/1771323?MER=en-mer-0713-pd-r2-acceDepending on your abilities you could build yourself a simple PK2, you can have an effective little programmer for a few pounds.Typical diagram of a PK2 clone below, if you search there are similar designs complete with pcb layout.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 10:55:05 am
content: http://usbpicprog.org/I have a few compatible programmers that work with this that I use as a backup for my PicKit3 (which is now short circuited on the power rails...).Not sure if you can integrate it with MPLabX, but you just load up a HEX and flash away.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 11:02:00 am
content: QuoteIf saving money is the goal, try avr - programmers there are a few dollars. Boards are plentiful.

author: mrkev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 02:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on April 02, 2015, 11:02:00 amAs I wrote before, I use AVRs for more than 10 years and I've build several programers for them (board usually my design, otherwise its clone or USBasp). I wanted to look into PIC10 family, because they are ridiculously cheap for a uC and there are applications where i would use something like ATMega8 even tho i need like 10% of it's potential (and sure, it's always good to know more than one uC family)...As I am currently looking for a job (and finishing my university degree in combined program), I am on really tight budget, but I have a lot of spear time.It looks like I'm gonna build PICkit 2 clone and potentially buy PICkit 3 later. Thnks.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 02:56:50 pm
content: I was gonna suggest the Picstart Plus, but it's more expensive than I expected and it needs a serial port. And it only supports DIP devices out of circuit.

author: David_
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 12:43:44 pm
content: If one would like to use PIC32, is PICkit3 sufficient to program those?

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 01:42:38 pm
content: If you download from this link and then open the 'Device Support' it gives a chart showing which programmer supports what chips.http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/mplabx-ide-v2.35-release-notes-00.zip

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 02:39:51 pm
content: On the cheap a PICkit2 or clone will still program most common PICs, it's also an HV programmer so you can modify the fuse settings (the cheap AVR programmers are LV, the Dragon is HV).PICkit2 also has a UART tool and simple 3 channel logic analyzer, something I wish was on the PICkit3 as it's handy.Supercheap the ancient ICD2 RS232 based programmers, I designed one ages ago called the Inchworm. Easy to DIY only ICs 16F877A, MAX232 & LM7805 and a handful of common parts.That said, I'd still buy a PICkit3 as it's still supported by Microchip.PS avoid LV only programmers.

author: johm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 09:44:21 pm
content: What about mikroProg? it's somewhat buggy but very modifiable to your most evil needs. And covers a vast range of PIC's

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 10:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: johm on April 03, 2015, 09:44:21 pmIt's $100A Microchip PICkit3 is half that and has MPLAB support.

author: 22swg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 10:39:09 am
content: MC were offering a tool swap, anything MCworking or notfor a new PK3 at half price... havent checked may still be going....Edit seems not

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 11:04:33 am
content: Hi,Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but for diehard PK2 fans there are no less than two programs out there to enable the Pickit2 Device file to be edited to add new devices:http://jared.geek.nz/2013/jan/adding-extra-chips-to-the-pickit-2https://sites.google.com/site/pk2devicefileeditor/I haven't tried either of them myself but there seem to be plenty who have used them successfully.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 12:00:18 pm
content: *ONE* program. Jared is using the same program as your other link. Itoriginatedon the Microchip forums where it gets discussed fairly often and user Scasis is almost invariably the one with the answer to anyone who is stuck with an obscure technical query about its detailed usage.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 12:39:12 pm
content: Ok, sure Ian. *ONE* program, I stand corrected. Yes I'm aware of the Microchip forum. Presumably you also know about the updated (some time ago) PK2CMD command line interface for other programming environments which removed the restriction on known (to it) PIC devices, now taking its data from the device file instead.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 01:17:02 pm
content: I maintain a few links to PICkit 2 stuff that has become hard to find since Microchip reorganised their site in a topic over there:http://www.microchip.com/forums/m775322.aspx#775368including the PK2CMD 1.21RC1 update you mention.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 02:11:42 pm
content: Oops, Sorry Ian. I hadn't realised you were such a major contributor over on the Microchip ForumI agree, it's almost as if they're trying to hide it, it took some hunting when I was looking for the latest updates a few weeks back. Seemed like a good time to grab a copy of everything.