What kind of screw face is this and how can i open it - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 04:07:18 pm
content: Hi its Honda CR-V remote starter can you please look at face of screw used here, they are not inward rather they are outwardI need help where can i find screw driver for this, or how can i open it.

author: pigrew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 04:24:32 pm
content: I believe it's a "Tri-groove" or "T-groove" drive. I'm not sure which exact size it is (probably a small number like #0 or #2)For example, findbits at McMaster-Carr.

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 06:36:08 pm
content: I tried to find some screw driver for it but no luck, can someone help how can i open these screw?

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 07:22:57 pm
content: Tri-groove is correct. Here's a nice list for future reference:https://wiki2.org/en/List_of_screw_drives

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 08:04:32 pm
content: I could not find any screw driver, any idea how can i open this.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 08:22:27 pm
content: With esoteric screw heads, probably the best approach is to obtain a 1/4” hex bit (either individual or as part of a set). McMaster-Carr is very good, and I have seen sets at tool online vendors such as Garrett Wade. Where have you looked?

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 08:22:47 pm
content: You can't manage to just twist them with a decent set of small needle-nose pliers?They're only into plastic, they should come out rather easily even only being able to grab one groove, so long as you're pushing down a bit so it doesn't pop up off the opposite, rounded side....You could try a piece of tiny copper tubing or something that just fits the OD of the fastener, tap it down a bit and twist. I've opened lots of external-torx using an appropriately-sized hole drilled in the end of a copper pipe cap or something, lightly swaged down onto the fastener. It'll only last a couple of screws before you have to re-make, but that's usually all that is required.

author: jeroen79
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 08:32:42 pm
content: Quote from: sairfan1 on November 09, 2020, 08:04:32 pm-Glue a normal screwhead onto the screws.-Dremel a slot in the screwhead.-Drill into the screw and drive in a selftapping screw with a reverse thread.-Construct a screwdriver that will last just long enough for these three screws.Then unscrew them and replace them with normal screws.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 09:13:53 pm
content: The key is that you are looking for a socket, not a screwdriver. A search for tri-groove sockets turns up many sources, ranging from expensive to really, really expensive.One of the less expensive is herehttps://www.amazon.com/10-12-14-Tri-Groove-Socket/dp/B00DF3IA56/ref=pd_lpo_60_t_1/136-5059412-9410957?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00DF3IA56&pd_rd_r=39b3e9b5-12f8-4118-8289-93cce91946f1&pd_rd_w=5WKW5&pd_rd_wg=iOwbt&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=SPE076TKNAN6WT62FVKQ&psc=1&refRID=SPE076TKNAN6WT62FVKQGiven those prices I would try jamming a standard hex socket on before I pushed the buy button. Or drill 3 holes in the end of a dowel with the appropriate spacing and stick bits of drill rod into the holes. As others have said it shouldn't take too much torque to release these.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 09:51:42 pm
content: I'd find a nut driver bit that just fits over, then fill with a strong metal-loaded epoxy to make a mould, silicone grease on the screw for mould release

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 09:55:40 pm
content: From McMaster-Carr: (to second pigrew above):https://www.mcmaster.com/tri-groove-drivers/A choice of 1/4" hex bits, 1/4"-drive sockets, sets of 1/4" hex bits, and a set of three sockets and a driver.The sets are pricey, but if you can determine what size you need, a single bit is between $12 and $13 (each).If you already have a set of 1/4" drive hex sockets, then CatalinaWOW's suggestion should work if you only need to do this once.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 10:05:36 pm
content: If were me I would take an allen key and some superglue, temporarily superglue the allen key to the top of the offending screw, hopefully it will hold enough against torque that you can unscrew it, it's only into plastic after all.Break the screw off the allen key, and repeat for the other screws.Throw those screws away and replace with something more serviceable when you put it back together.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2020, 11:38:53 pm
content: It looks like they copied the medical implant industry.https://pdf.medicalexpo.com/pdf/implant-direct-europe/tri-lobe-system-catalog/72808-130275.html

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 01:15:00 am
content: Carefully take the spout of the side cutters in diameter and slowly unscrew.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 01:38:54 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on November 10, 2020, 01:15:00 amOh the poor side cutters!For gripping any shape fastener, there are purpose-made pliers.https://www.engineertools-jp.com/screwremoval

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 01:43:10 am
content: Quote from: helius on November 10, 2020, 01:38:54 amThe pliers won't fit in there. The screw, I think, is made of soft metal and the wire cutters will not suffer, but you can use not very good wire cutters, which are no longer a pity. And without fanaticism - do not try to bite off the screw.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 09:40:02 am
content: One way is to drill a small hole in the centre and use a screw removal tool. or drill the head right off . their should be enough of the shank protruding to grab with a pair of pliers . Another easier way is to use a small die grinder bit and carve a slot in the centre for a flat screw driver .

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 10:09:46 am
content: Quote from: jeroen79 on November 09, 2020, 08:32:42 pmi vote for this. the easiest and a permanent fix to those fucked up screws type.. once slot is created, we can unscrew with flathead screwdriver anytime.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 12:07:45 pm
content: Yeah, if you can't just grip it with pliers or something, I second the motion to just cut a slot in it. That's always my go-to method for oddball fasteners. Had to do that on the throttle position sensor on my mom's CRV's throttle body since Honda used some weird kind of tamper-proof screw.The superglue-something-to-the-top idea is bad because you're much more likely to just end up getting glue down pas the fastener head and gluing it in, making the situation worse, than you are to manage to get something to stay stuck to just the head of the fastener.

author: sairfan1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 02:32:54 pm
content: QuoteWhat kind of screw removal tool could be used if i drill the center.What kind of drill bit can be used to drill the head off?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 02:41:49 pm
content: Google is your friend. Here is one of many results from searching "screw removal tool":https://www.thedrive.com/reviews/30266/best-screw-extractorsThe tools normally specify the appropriate drill bit for each size extractor.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 03:54:13 pm
content: All of the normal "screw extractor" sets are likely to be too large at their minimum to work on such tiny screws in a remote.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 07:15:05 pm
content: Indeed, it might take a very small tool, but the OP has not given any information on dimensions. The initial drill would need to go through the centroid of the trefoil. It might be possible to drill a larger hole after that pilot hole—that would depend on the overall head diameter.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 07:29:59 pm
content: BbIndeed, it might take a very small tool, but the OP has not given any information on dimensions. The initial drill would need to go through the centroid of the trefoil. It might be possible to drill a larger hole after that pilot hole—that would depend on the overall head diameter.There are no dimensions, but there is a photo of this screw in a key fob, so approximate dimensions can be estimated. It is clearly a quite small.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 07:38:28 pm
content: Micromark.com, who cater to model railroad enthusiasts, have miniature screw extractors from Moody down to 0.039 inch diameter.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 07:58:13 pm
content: I am curious why do you need to open it in the first place. What are you hoping to repair there?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 10:00:28 pm
content: So far, the answers and suggestions to the OP can be sorted into:1. Identification of the uncommon screw head type.2. "Formal" suggestions of tools actually designed for that head, possibly expensive.3. "Informal" suggestions of other tools (such as pliers) that could remove the screw, possibly damaging it.4. "Destructive" suggestions of screw-removal tactics (drilling out the head, using a screw extractor tool) that would destroy the head and require a new screw.It will be interesting to see what the OP chooses to do.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 10:15:31 pm
content: Take a small socket (outer diameter same as outer diameter of the screw head) and grind out the three notches.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2020, 11:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 10, 2020, 10:00:28 pmyou missed the 5) "informal" "destructive" but not destructive method mentioned earlier. its not expensive and not destructive and has been done and tested before.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 12:13:52 am
content: So, add5. “Modify”. Add slot, cutting across head, to allow normal screwdriver.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 03:45:13 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 10, 2020, 10:00:28 pmI'm pretty sure you're not going to damage the fastener by trying to remove it with needle-noses...And even if you do, what's the downside? Apparently the OP wants to open the CRV remote....Are you in league with the people who put a tamper-resistant fastener in there in the first place?Ooooh... I damaged the tiny security screw in my key FOB... Woe is me.... Boo hoo....

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 03:55:46 am
content: Just listing the possibilities. Personally, I dislike obscure screw heads. The poster who suggested a needle nose pliers mentioned damage as a possibility, but one can be careful.I always wondered, while meditating in the company men’s room, if hordes of marauding Visigoths unscrewed the partitions that weren’t protected by security screws.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 03:59:29 am
content: Some of these suggestions might require buying tools that are even more expensive than buying the _right_ tool for the job! And they won't work as well.Say the right tool (the trilobe socket) costs 15 USD, or double that by the time you've ordered some other items and paid for shipping. How much is your time worth? By the time you've located your Dremel, chucked up the very thin grinding wheel and broken several of them trying to get in there to cut a slot, multiply that by 4 screws... you've wasted more time than the _right tool_ is worth in the first place.Trying to drill a little hole in that screw -- of unknown hardness, maybe they used Grade 8, ho ho ho -- with a tiny drill bit and then using a stud extractor--- how much do those tiny screw extractors cost I wonder?.... I am laughing out loud just thinking about it. Sorry.... Longtime machinist/mechanic/bloodyknuckles me... nothing beats the right tool for the job, even if you only use it once and then it just sits there in your toolbox, gleaming....

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 05:47:51 am
content: Quote from: sairfan1 on November 10, 2020, 02:32:54 pmI usually use just the square fluted but I see that may be difficult to find one small enough in your case. I can't vouch for other products .If you opt for the method just centre punch the top of the screw and use a standard drill about half the diameter of the head . Just drill enough for the head to separate from the shank of the screw. Take it slow and careful as to not damage the seat the head sits in on the plastic. . It's pretty much the same method as removing pop rivets.But by far the safest method is to cut a slot on the head with a die grinder or a Dremel as others mentioned .

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 02:37:29 pm
content: I fully agree with alsetalokin4017. About 60 years ago, my grandfather taught me always to use the correct tool for the job. He never used profanity, but his pronunciation of "makeshift" was very strong language.McMaster has the socket or bit for roughly $15, and they deliver next day here in Chicago. Screw extractors are the right tool when the screw is actually broken, and the correct driver will no longer work.I will admit that when working in foreign countries on field installations, I have had to improvise out of necessity, but we tried to have the correct tools with us.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 04:03:41 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 11, 2020, 02:37:29 pmhe is absolutely correct when it is your everyday job dealing with... the OP may do this only once in his lifetime, does he have to live with that FU bits for the rest of his life?Quote from: TimFox on November 11, 2020, 02:37:29 pmsome tools are meant for general purpose, esp for hobby, such as dremel. at least once he is done with his FU bits project, he also can later solve other problem maybe earing problem or the ring or anything that will involve cutting. i have few cutting tools from small to big, you are right. but thats because i know i will need those sometime now and then. or is it wise to have multiple tools that we dont need anymore. here is my earing extractor tool, there in the drawer is my ring extractor tool that i bought 20 years ago and never touch it since then. up there hanging on the ceiling is my shoe heel assembly mechanism, highly specialized stuff but not needed anymore, only bought and used once.err: i didnt mean to buy original dremel which sometime sucks blood. the immitationlike this(orthis in set) is a decent working capability (i've been using this for years) if not used as heavy duty everyday job. the cutting disk is not so bad as well, i also have thisone packfor years (iirc its the original dremel bits, not that expensive unlike the tools) and only have used maybe like 3-5 disc. i still have thick discs inside.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 06:02:27 am
content: What is really bad about using the wrong tool is when you break it... like for instance you break the tip off of one jaw of your favorite angled needlenose pliers while trying to get a twisty grip on that little trilobe fastener.Even worse is when the broken bit winds up in your eye because you weren't wearing your safety goggles....My best one is when I bent a brand new 14 inch pipe wrench by using it as a flywheel lock while disassembling an old VW engine. Fortunately it was a Craftsman tool and Sears replaced it, no questions asked. (But I did get some funny looks from the salesman.)

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 07:26:29 am
content: Take a disposable pen you hate, pull out the ink tube (the skinny white kind is what you need), melt the end a bit with a lighter and jam it into the screw head while still goey. I used to open game boy games this way before you could buy little inverse torx drivers easily. I suppose any stick of thermoplastic (weed eater line? 3d print filament?) about the right size would work.