Renesas dev board-> Taxes Issues - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 04:30:28 pm
content: I would like first to thanks Renesas for such an event that anybody could participate, and the free gifts are great.However i hoped that i will not have problems with the shipping process, but i have. Today the package reached the greek airport and i was telephoned and informed about the taxes, that i already know that there would be taxes, but couldn't think that they will charge 160.41 Euro for importing the package. The price of the dev board and the book is 250 dollars or in euro 190 Euro, nearly as the price of the taxes it is unbelievable. I was thinking of rejecting the package because it is too much and i would prefer spending those moneys into more useful items, like a scope. That do you think?Please write if others had to pay taxes for the dev board? How much?

author: Nermash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 05:09:32 pm
content: I thought that Renesas competition is for North America only?In any case, I would simply reject the package and send one email of apology to Renesas explaining what hapened.Greedy stupid customs official! Another possibility is that transport company is trying to squeeze aditional funds from you, by claiming some "taxes, stamps, certificates..." cost. If you reject the package and they sudenly say "OK, we managed to evade custom duty, since this is educational, personal use, bla bla", you know they've been playing you.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 05:19:09 pm
content: This sort of thing us usually caused by the sender not thinking when filling out customs values - the US has a high duty-free threshold so not often an issue for them, and they don't realise it's different elsewhere.If it was free they should declare it as Sample-NCV or similar.You should definitely inform Renesas about this.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 05:36:51 pm
content: Renesas has written on the package that this item is free for the customer but has value of 250 dollars. So my stupid country thinks that i paid 250 dollars. The transport company send me the cost of the taxes and they justify the costs. 82.41 Euro, more than the half are "Pay for the custom broker"!!! F~!@# stealers..Quote from: Nermash on November 30, 2010, 05:09:32 pmNo the Renesas RX contest is for everywhere you are, the free board program that they had before the contest is limited to North America and somewhere else, I dont remember.

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 05:46:39 pm
content: Tomorrow I will discover how much I will have to pay for the DevKit.I was contacted by FedExp Italy BEFORE the parcel left the USA:I sent them some links showing that the price advertised is 99USD, but I got for free.I hope they will not charge too much money. I will keep you informed.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 06:05:11 pm
content: Hope you dont have to pay a fortune as me, but i think Italy is much alike to Greece in aspects of imports or even worse, thats why many sellers dont ship from ebay to Italy.I will not pay them, I will call them to send it back tomorrow and try what Nermash has said

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 07:54:31 pm
content: I had a similar problem whilst working in Australia. I got it sorted by going to the Customs office and explaining exactly what I was importing etc. They quickly realised that my item was duty and tax exempt and released it to me. In your case you have a courier company working as a shipping broker..... you might be able to avoid the customs duties but I think courier companies charge for any kind of Customs clearance activity so you'll get nailed for their charges no matter what. My Rigol DS1052E cost me an additional £10 in DHL customs clearance fees but that's because DHL have decided that non commercial customers should be given a break and not hit with the sort of fees that you are experiencing.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 11:00:00 pm
content: I hoped that the price will be a two numbered price but it was much more than i thought. It is impossible to go to the Customs office cause it is 600++km far from me but tomorrow will be the phone day that they will hear the curses..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 11:37:06 pm
content: That's insane!Don't pay it, talk to Renesas.The board is only $99 retail and is marked on the packaging.Dave.

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2010, 11:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 30, 2010, 11:37:06 pmYeah, but they say the book "costs" $150 US.

author: Addidis
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 12:02:03 am
content: At least you guys got the board and book. I never heard back.

author: safarir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 02:43:40 am
content: I am from canada and I paid 55$ of to tax...

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 03:28:09 am
content: You guys have it rough with imports!In Australia you can import items up to a value of $1000 with no import duties or VAT (GST)

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 03:45:38 am
content: Quote from: GeoffS on December 01, 2010, 03:28:09 amI betcha it's because they know pretty much everything is costly to import to and from Australia so they're gonna give you guys a break. Anymore, and only the rich could buy online

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 05:09:31 am
content: Quote from: MrPlacid on December 01, 2010, 03:45:38 amGovernments do NOT give citizens 'a break'The limit used to be a lot lower but some bright public servant worked out it cost more to collect GST (10%) than it was worth.Freight is a bigger burden that the GST on imported goods.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 09:42:04 am
content: That's amazing, tax free up to a value of $1000

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 09:43:01 am
content: Quote from: GeoffS on December 01, 2010, 05:09:31 amYeah, it used be about $300 IRRC, that sucked. But many packages slipped through the system by way of the "gift" con.The Hong Kong ebay seller still "gift" everything!Dave.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 09:57:07 am
content: It is still possible to get hit unexpectedly with GST on past purchases if you buy a lot of stuff from one vendor.If for example you import three packages worth $500 each from the same source over a short period, you may get hit with a 10% tax on the total.The rules are designed to catch people attempting to get under the $1000 limit by splitting consignments. Unfortunately the rules are not that clear and it appears to be at the discretion of Customs as to who gets pinched.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 10:13:03 am
content: And again if you pass the limit it is only a 10% taxes on the total price??Here we have to pay 25% for the VAT and a fixed price for each package and the custom broker and the warehouse (where it will stay in the airport if you delay the payment for more than 3 days) and.. and.. and..

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 10:22:07 am
content: Don't get me started on couriers!What I mentioned so far applies to packages handled by the post office.While the same tax/duty rules apply for a package handled by a courier, the courier will hit you with substantial 'fees' regardless of whether there is any GST or excise duty payable. Clearance fees, customs handling fees, documentation preparation fees. etc. etc.

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 05:23:10 pm
content: Just for your info, I had to pay 57.34 Euros for customs duties to get my Kit...47.34 for the Italian customs and 10.00 for FedExp paperwork!!!

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 09:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: eliocor on December 01, 2010, 05:23:10 pmThe University just called me today to ask what to do about the tax fee. This kind of problem already happened when I ordered free samples from Texas Instruments, but after a call at FedEx Italy they solved the problem... If I'll have the time, I'm going to call FedEx tomorrow, otherwise I'll leave them send the kit back.My guess is they are just trying to get something that is not really due (47 Euro for the Government, 10 for FedEx), since the import taxes for this kind of things is only VAT, and value added should be zero if no price has been paid! Then, 10 Euro for the paperwork...really ridiculous!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 10:42:10 pm
content: I may be wrong and I know it will sound kind of crazy, but I believe UK Customs and Excise use declared or estimated market value when assessing duties and taxes. The fact that an item is provided free of charge does not effect the fact that an item of certain value has been brought into the country. This is because you could, in theory, be intending to sell it on and so effectively converting it back into cash. To avoid such charges you, as the recipient, must be able to prove you have had the item in your ownership for at least 6 months and that no duties or taxes were due at the time of purchase/importation.What I have never understood is why I have to pay tax on the shipping cost as well as the product value... it's not like shipping is a tangible asset is it.Once an items value exceeds the UK Customs threshold it becomes an asset on which Duties and Taxes may be payable.I even got stung badly when importing five new Dell laptop plastic case assemblies from the USA.... the rules declared them duty payable as 'petrochemical based plastics' whereas as laptop spares they should be duty exempt... I had to pay the duty.Countries Customs rules seem very variable depending upon who looks at the consignment.... sometimes you are lucky, other times not, and you get a bill.Interestingly, I received the VAT bill for my Rigol scope a month after the unit had been delivered to me. DHL said they had paid the VAT on my behalf and now needed to recover the money. In such a case you have no opportunity to discuss any disputed value or product categorisation before the duties and taxes are paid.I personally found the Customs office in Darwin to be a very friendly and reasonable group of people who provided me with help and advice on many occasions. They even admitted that they had failed to tax me on an occasion but were not going to bother pursuing the matter ! I don't think the UK Customs Officers are so friendly but then they are somewhat busier

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 10:54:50 pm
content: I've not dealt with Australian Customs that often but have usually found them to be a reasonable group of people where duty and GST are concerned - as long as you are honest with them.Quarantine is anther matter and is taken very seriously. Attempt to bypass the quarantine rules or lie about an import and you're likely to have to pay import duties, GST, probably a fine and have your goods confiscated.

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2010, 11:13:35 pm
content: A couple of times I received a strange letter form FedEx, a time after receiving some TI free samples. They stated the value of the received goods, but did not say that I had to pay for it.In other words, it was something like an invoice, but it was not clear if someone had paid any taxes for me (FedEx nor TI) or if there still was something to pay. Of course I never paid anything, since they did not ask for.The fact that this is not systematic (they do not send the letter all of the times) makes me wander if they are really applying a rule.BTW, Monday I received a letter from the Italian Post, clearly saying that they were waiting for me to send some documentation (comprising the invoice) for the Rigol that had just arrived from Honk Kong (shipped through HK Post). They did not take in any consideration the value DealExtreme declared on the box (28$). Funny to notice that I placed the order on October,10th and it was shipped on October, 22nd (one month and a week, maybe a pony express riding a real horse will have taken less!).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2010, 12:42:06 pm
content: Quote from: scrat on December 01, 2010, 11:13:35 pmOUCH ! This is a problem with some Asia based sellers... they declare a value on a product that is so low as to be suspicious. Your countries postal staff are intelligent people so such an act just attracts attention to your consignment. $28 for a parcel the size of the Rigol DSO would likely have triggered suspicions, if it had been an expensive component in a padded envelope I doubt it would have been noticed. My Rigol arrived with a reasonable valuation on the customs declaration and I paid the relevant VAT on it. Sadly you are now in the position of having to prove the true value of the item and they are likely to be pretty strict with you on the duties and taxes payable. DealExtreme have not acted in your best interests and I recommend that buyers from them discuss the declared value before items are shipped.As a parting comment, I have worked closely with UK Customs and Excise and one thing I discovered was that you don't want to annoy them, and the last thing you need is to be subjected to one of their investigations.... their investigators are truly scary people with powers akin to the PoliceNice guys socially though

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2010, 07:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on December 02, 2010, 12:42:06 pmDon't get me started ... :-(QuoteIMHO dealextreme is offering to help with tax fraud as part of their standard service,http://help.dealextreme.com/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.ashx#What_is_the_declaration_on_the_shipping_label__16QuoteMy countries Customs is also not stupid, and I wouldn't be surprised if they know such companies very well and are specially looking out for parcels from them. All you get with fraudulent labeling is delays and some trouble.

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 11:29:25 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on December 02, 2010, 12:42:06 pmWell, the letter was from the Italian Post (International Gateway), they were just asking for a declaration from the receiver (me) prior to pass the paperwork to the customs. So our Post Company is intelligentI hope they were the same efficient in delivering letters and packages, but unfortunately it is not so...However, since I already received some little items from abroad without receiving letters from the Post, I wonder which is the "trigger" logic behind this action.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 01:32:12 pm
content: As you had from your local Post, I wanted the package to be handled by the Greek Post and not by the FedEx, I have read that the package has pass the import process but their extra charges are only limited up to 10 Euro. Also as eliocor said he only had to pay 47.34 Euro for the taxes not the nice round price they told me 60 Euro, it is too suspicious.I called them to reject the package and they didn't give a sh!t the advice of Nermash didn't work as wanted.Bye bye Renesas contest

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 01:47:24 pm
content: Sorry, I was speaking about the Rigol I have to receive from DealExtreme, not the Renesas kit, in my last post.About the Renesas kit (managed by FedEx), it's funny to notice that, even in the same country, eliocor has to pay 57 Euro, I have to pay about 10 Euro less (even if they charged the same 10 Euro for paperwork)... I suppose thay have a random item value generator

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 07:15:46 pm
content: So we are not the only that is so unstable in charges

author: logictom
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2010, 07:51:27 pm
content: Has anyone had any issues with taxes in the UK regarding the Renesas board?Just got the email today letting me know I'll be getting it - FedEx tracking says Wednesday delivery

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2010, 12:28:15 am
content: Quote from: logictom on December 03, 2010, 07:51:27 pmIn the UK Fedex tend to deliver first then invoice later. You have a legal obligation to pay the VAT etc but not Fedex's handling/brokerage charge, as you have no contract with them - the sender would probably end up being billed if you didn't pay, and future Fedex deliveries may have issues...If you get an invoice it would be worth talking to Renesas first, especially if they have declared an incorrect value, as they may choose to swallow it or get it corrected.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2010, 12:56:23 am
content: Renesas on their forums has said that the price is declared as you had bought the dev board and the book which is 255 dollar ( maybe 1-2 dollars less cant remember) but they had written that the product is free for the customerlook here or communicate with them first ->http://www.renesasrulz.com/message/10380

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2010, 09:03:13 pm
content: Mine is here (Spain).I had to pay 29,15€, taxes and "paperwork" included.

author: CryptLordGR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2010, 11:10:38 am
content: Quote from: EdoNork on December 10, 2010, 09:03:13 pmi envy you

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2010, 06:17:22 pm
content: Ah! I didn't receive any book, board only.

author: gonnafail
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 09:04:32 am
content: Just got mine in Ontario, no charge luckily. However I also did not get the book, board only. I wonder why some are getting the book while others aren't? Having inspected the board I am very impressed with the design and build. Looks to be very well done.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2011, 11:03:56 am
content: Quote from: logictom on December 03, 2010, 07:51:27 pmJust had the invoice through for mine, cost £20 including the fedex fees, so could be worse from the sounds of it!