The anti smartphone revolution - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 02:36:58 am
content: https://odysee.com/@Coldfusion:f/the-anti-smartphone-revolutionInteresting topic that could change the way we consider the interaction between electronics-people.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 03:36:28 am
content: I started watching that and all I could do was shake and nod my head. Shake - because of the absurdity of the situation so many have put themselves in ... and nodding because of the realisation that it is both unnecessary and a negative element in living.I might also point out that the key focus of this is not access to the internetper se, but social media.Please don't get me wrong, I'm not against social media in principle - it's just that it has taken on a far more invasive and powerful role than is healthy. In fact, for far too many people, it has become as addictive as any drug could ever be.Cutting ties to the internet is a step that is a bit further than necessary, IMHO. Just distance oneself from easy access to social media. However, I do concede that those who are so enveloped would need to make the "dumb phone" switch ... the temptation would be too great otherwise.Yes, we live in the "Information Age" - but there IS such a thing as Too Much Information.To those who may need some encouragement, I offer this thought.... Look into yourself and find out who you are - don't look to others to tell you what they think.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 05:36:29 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 26, 2022, 03:36:28 amSort of the same here. The "smart" phone does have it's benefits, but people should learn to use them with moderation. I can see the addiction in it though.Quote from: Brumby on July 26, 2022, 03:36:28 amA bit of a problem is that the internet and social media are so intertwined these days, it is hard to separate them. For instance this forum is also a form of social media. Just a bunch of "nerds" grouping together and writing on the internet. (Not a negative intent here, just a remark) And it is indeed addictive. For me at the moment a way to pass time between projects.Quote from: Brumby on July 26, 2022, 03:36:28 amIn this modern day world it becomes more and more impossible to cut the ties completely. Just take banking, it is almost all done via the internet. In France the "cheque" is now being phased out, and your smart phone as payment device is creeping in. How long will it be before the debit/credit card is replaced by it completely. Industry, media and society are forcing us into these things. Peer pressure.So maybe a movement against this is not a bad thing.Quote from: Brumby on July 26, 2022, 03:36:28 amThat is so true. Think about it, people post on facebook or whatever media where they will be at some point in time, and criminals abuse this to break in and rob their houses.Quote from: Brumby on July 26, 2022, 03:36:28 amGood advise, but very difficult for lots of people.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 01:55:24 pm
content: Suprising that the new generations are somehow moving away from the 24/7 connected mentality.Regarding me, oh Lord yes I am a sinner.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 03:27:46 pm
content: Hammer is a useful tool for whacking in nails. But it can also be used to whack your thumb.Similarly with the smartphone, how you use it is up to you. Use it as a dumb phone if you prefer (strong-willed enough?!).You don't have to use it for social media and other potentially damaging crap.Is this forum classed as 'social media'?...cause it's as close as I get.

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 03:35:05 pm
content: Is there irony in the fact that one needs to watch a video (as opposed to reading text) to find out why the author dislikes smartphones?TBH: I didn't even start the video. Videos are typically too time consuming for me to tolerate.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 03:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: eugene on July 26, 2022, 03:35:05 pmAnd apparently, so is typing "THB" instead of "to be honest". But I guess that is also a sign of the times and social media, born by the use of "DUMB" phones with texting.Sorry that is one of my pet peeves. The very abundant use of abbreviations. Makes reading for a "layman" more difficult.

author: josuah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 04:02:08 pm
content: What a great opportunity to share the devices that do not turn us into a "notification_queue_event_callback()".Inexpensive feature phones:The advantage is that it permits to test for $0, no fear of yet another purchase to throw in a drawer.1. Look in your drawers. Buying new devices is fun, but if you were expecting something shiny new, you might have such a phone already home.2. Used phones. They will be extremely inexpensive and will let you do some sms / voice calls / 4g internet tethering (for using a laptop on the go) / email / occasional photo to send as an SMS attachment,3. inexpensive phones at the local IT shop, or even supermarket. It could be a deception if the embedded OS is terrible though.Non-Android/iOS smartphones:1. Your current phone might work withPostmarketOSorMaemo Leste2. ThePinephone64is very inexpensive for a smartphone, and can get about any Linux distribution.Pocket computerThat permits to have a phone to do what only a phone can do (access GSM and 4G network, phone/sms calls) instead of as much as it could be doing, and a separate pocket computer covering the rest of the features.1.https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2022-06-20-introducing-mnt-pocket-reform.html2. I do not know these device much... help!Pitfalls:1. KaiOS is popular for dumbphones, but terrible: it uses HTML + Javascript under the hood with terrible performance, and had an alarming security issue allowing any webpage run shell script, eventually a rootkit2. Other operating system made for feature phones might be better, or just as bad! Hard to predict before using it for some time.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 04:11:31 pm
content: Quote from: eugene on July 26, 2022, 03:35:05 pmit's not youtube.

author: josuah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 04:23:57 pm
content: Looking at a phone from an engineering point of view, what roles could we give to it?* a complete radio, with antenna, modulator/demodulator, amplifier and whatnot,* it is battery-powered, which suggests everything here is low-power* user I/O: speaker, microphone, screen, input device, at least if it is to be operated as a standalone device and not a peripheral* SIM card I/O* user I/O (screen, speaker, microphone, buttons) if it is to be operated stand-alone* firmware gluing all of that togetherFor test and measurement, some want features like ability to drive the device from a computer. Why did phones even skipped that? Maybe avoiding to make SMS spam too easy? I still want it.In addition to the useful mobile internet tethering (USB, WiFi), and ability to use an external keyboard:What about a RPC interface for sending SMS or starting calls from a computer keyboard?Such a device could be added on the lab bench along with the other, to give the lab operator (you, me) ability to place and pick-up phone calls and exchange SMSes.

author: josuah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 04:31:18 pm
content: I think I will stop dreaming by the second I want to communicate to any Whatsapp group used by relatives.Any kind of system you want to build will need to reach these walled gardens, and these walled garden have rules: Android, iOS, period.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 06:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 26, 2022, 04:11:31 pmAt least on YouTube there would be subtitles, but here this is nothing. Even if I wanted to spend the time watching I would learn nothing from it.

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 07:22:56 pm
content: OK, so I took the time to watch the video. I think they honestly portrayed the problem as not originating in the devices themselves, but in the fact that many people become addicted to them. The problem is that some people need help controlling their addiction. Some people need even more help than others.Personally, I use social media only a tiny bit(1)so I don't feel the effects of addiction, though I do feel empathy for those that do. I think it's obvious that the smart phone isn't nefarious in itself; it's just a natural step in the miniaturization of computers, etc. The problem is not technical, but social, though it may have a technical solution. As a start it might help to simply admit, as a society, that there's a risk and people that feel at risk should look for a solution rather than let it get out of control. If dumb phones help some, then I'm all for it. Doesn't mean I feel the need for one myself.(1)Posting here, especially in a topic like this counts as using social media. So anyone here that claims to be free from social media is kidding themself.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 07:44:02 pm
content: QuotePedantically you're right, but practically I think there is a big difference between the likes of this forum and Facebook, which is what is normally meant by 'social media'. There is no timeline here, for a start.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 07:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 26, 2022, 01:55:24 pmUh. Are they? I don't think so.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 26, 2022, 07:44:02 pmUsenet newsgroups were a form of social media.So, too, were dial-up BBSes.Hell, even Ham Radio is a social network.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:10:48 pm
content: The problem is not smartphones. It’s addicts. Cutting it out is an extremist position and that’s almost never the solution. People just want attention for being different.Consider I’m sitting here on a bus which I paid for with my phone, after going out for a meal which was organised on a social network on a phone. I took photos with a phone. I am listening to music with a phone while I’m writing this with a phone.People are welcome to deprive themselves from the benefits but I’m going to jump in that gap and enjoy the actual real life interactions and leverage that the thing gives me.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:18:07 pm
content: QuoteOr people are anti social and dont want to be at everybody's beck an call 24/7,its also worth getting rid off for the confusion it causes company's and officialdom

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 26, 2022, 08:10:48 pmIt's kids I worry about though. At such a young age I don't think they have the ability to regulate their own use.Flame me, but I think kids should not legally be allowed smart phones until they are 14 years (simple mobile with text, OK).It is absolutely not where they should be learning social skills. It would make classrooms a little more controllable.The kids are literally cannon fodder for evil advertisers and online bullies, some from their own school.At the moment, its a free-for-all, a huge social/mental health experiment and we'll find out the results for society in 20 years.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:32:33 pm
content: Quotemake it 13 so its inline with coppa,not that that seems to apply anymore

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:41:06 pm
content: People should parent their kids. Problem solved :-DI have three of the buggers. They read books, draw things and do physical activity still. They all have phones and tablets because it gives them the social advantage they need.Edit: also honestly they should teach them to use them at school as well. One of my kids schools bans them and it’s a shit show universally. The one that allows them the students do better because they integrate them into the curriculum.They are tools. Teach a kid to make things with a screwdriver not destroy them. Same principle.

author: abquke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 09:35:11 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 26, 2022, 08:41:06 pmThis.I tried going back to a not-smart-phone a few times (still have a Nokia 3310 3G redux around here somewhere) but an android phone with no data has done okay for me for all intents and purposes.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 10:11:16 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 26, 2022, 08:41:06 pmAssuming they're any wiser than their kids.Not quite certain these days apart from a few exceptions.Quote from: bd139 on July 26, 2022, 08:41:06 pmShould be. But there's a slight difference: a screwdriver never had a chance to turn human societies upside down.The problem is not quite with the tools anymore, it's the fact human societies are changing paradigms, and they are increasingly becoming "dematerialized", with no sign of the trend reversing.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 11:06:26 pm
content: I've had a smartphone for nearly a decade now and I've never had a social media app on mine ever. It's an incredibly useful device, it's my camera, GPS navigator, communication device, pocket watch, exercise tracker, tide chart, weather station, grocery list, alarm clock, stopwatch, timer, music player, newspaper, bank terminal, home automation remote, to-do list, reminder, etc. It takes the place of a whole pile of separate gadgets and manual tools on a day to day basis and I always have it with me. If somebody can't figure out how to use it responsibly that says more about them than about the tool.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 08:26:31 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 26, 2022, 08:41:06 pmI agree that may be true, say, 95% of the time but it's an oversimplification of a problem which in some cases has profound and life changing negative consequences. Even with good parenting some kids struggle, in my experience the more insular kids in particular - and I don't mean insular in a negative way, some kids just bottle things up and it's difficult to 'unbottle' it. A kid's smart phone can quickly turn from a useful connection with friends to a source of persecution, and even good parents might struggle to prevent or fix it. The same thing can happen with a computer of course but its much easier to keep an eye on things there.The suicide rate for 10-14 yo for England & Wales are givenhere(in Table 5). Thankfully it's low but recent years show an up tick, with double digit deaths occuring for the first time in the years 2017 through 2020 (dataset starts in 1981). Did parenting get worse in those years, or is there another factor? In any case, I sincerely hope the trend recedes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 08:39:29 am
content: Quote from: eugene on July 26, 2022, 07:22:56 pmI agree. A week or 2 ago I was sitting on a beach (taking a rest after a long swim) and watched at a woman taking pictures of herself endlessly. Go swim in the sea or hang out on the beach! Or another example: there was a fireworks show at a place where I stayed. Lots of people filming using their smartphone. Just watch the firework! It is better for real than from film.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 08:46:48 am
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on July 27, 2022, 08:26:31 amI think a better statement would be society should "parent" kids. Sure a lot needs to come from the actual parents, but in school there should also be proper caring for this. The only problem is that this is always lagging behind the technological evolution. Only when the problems start to show action is taken, when it already might be to late.But social persecution is not new and has been around probably as long as humans exist. To eradicate this the human instinct needs a drastic change, and I fear it will never happen. This week on the Dutch news there was an item on a fraternity in Amsterdam where the members were again misbehaving and a lot of it was male dominance over woman related. And that is the generation that has to take care of the future

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 09:19:42 am
content: So true. There is so much sh*t in the world at the moment and the internet is a conduit, spilling it into your mind - the challenge is not to let it in.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 09:22:27 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on July 27, 2022, 08:46:48 am"It takes a village to raise a child" Is a common proverb that seems to be growing in popularity. It most likely originates from old African cultures according to some sources:https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2022.756066/full#:~:text=The%20phrase%20%E2%80%9Cit%20takes%20a,to%20realize%20their%20hopes%20andhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_takes_a_villageMy wife and I raised 4 children in a relatively small town. I think they benefited from the closeness of community.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2022, 09:25:23 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on July 27, 2022, 09:22:27 amSee Dharma and Greg season 2, episode 2 "It takes a village"