Rant: Beware of Ebay chinese Arduino's! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: dany-boy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 05:36:41 am
content: About a year ago, I decided to expand my arduino collection and get a brand new Uno R3. Living where I do, Ebay is the place to go for cheap and "reliable" electronics stuff. Being already familiar with the platform I began testing it right away. everything seemed to be fine, so I did my things with the Uno. I used my it for various things, but always feeding it from the USB's 5v, until a couple of days ago. I was prototyping with radio control stuff so I powered it through the barrel jack with a "well-within specs" 8 volts. All of a sudden the thing stopped working. What could it be? My computer would no longer recognize it, so the I knew serial programming chip was out. I tried using an external USBasp to program the Atmega328. no luck, it was also fried.To prove that my external programmer was working, I uploaded a blink sketch to another Atmega328. I worked just fine.So I started probing the board. I discovered something rather interesting, the input and output pins of the 5v regulator were effectively shorted!The regulator failed, so the 8 volts went into the 5 volts rail, frying everything but the damn power LED!This is the first time that something from ebay fails for me. I thought I would share my experience so that other people double check their ebay stuff before frying anything because of a simple crappy component. I will definitely not buy anything more from this sellerhttp://www.ebay.com/usr/k.city6100?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2754Well I'll have to wait 2 months until my new arduino arrives. Hopefully this one will not fail so miserably.Daniel

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 06:04:18 am
content: i have one uno here collecting rust as i have not decided its purpose, bought a while back, just checked the reg IO seems fine. backpad is gnd (pin2 and the backplate), gnd to pin 3 11KOhm, gnd to pin1 1Kohm. thanks for the headup. as you have noted, China is cheap electronics but not so reliable.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 07:19:19 am
content: Not to sound unsympathetic, buuuuut....You were cheap and bought Chinese junk for $9 instead of the official parts you can buy in your country for $21 - thereby saving $12. Everyone knows 99% of the electronics you buy on eBay is shit, yet this one lasted for a year and through many projects before dying. And this is somehow the fault of the seller, who most likely has nothing to do with the manufacture of the board, and we should all avoid that seller?I think the better idea is to avoid being cheap and buying on eBay if it's something you need to last long-term. The seller has over 99% positive feedback so recommending everyone avoid him seems unwarranted. Not to mention we don't know why the unit failed - perhaps user error?At any rate... yes, Chinese electronics being sold for pennies on the dollar are usually cheaply made crap. In other revelations, fire is hot and water is wetIn all seriousness, I'm sorry your Arduino died but I think you got a good lesson for a very good price.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 07:32:11 am
content: Why not buy from a US seller? Certainly it doesn't take 2 months to get down to Mexico, does it? An authentic Arduino can be had from Amazon for $25.No idea if you ever come up here, but if you do there is a Fry's in San Diego. They should sell Arduinos (the one near me does) and a lot of hobby electronics staples. They even have OK pricing on a lot of stuff like solder and hookup wire, soldering irons, chemicals, breadboards, etc. Discrete parts, not so much.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 08:59:49 am
content: There have been some reports of official Arduinos showing up with flakey regulators as well, although yours seems to have been a particularly nasty failure mode. (Also, there were some early reports of eBay clones having wrong-pinout regulator chips installed. (7805 pinout chips on an LDO-pinout board.)

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 09:45:53 am
content: So what? You have a Arduino clone with a faulty regulator. It failed after some time. And the "official" Arduino's do not fail and live forever? Perhaps it is even your own fault.Don't make a fuss about it, throw it away and buy some new ones. If you want to spent $25 + shipping for a "official" one, fine. For that money you can get 8 clones. Your choice.

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 09:47:15 am
content: The problem resides deep in the supply chain when you are producing 8933376 millions of the same product. Chinese factories are notorious for crap parts in the supply chains.Even for high quality products with proper QC as Apple or whatever big brand you want, sometime shit is hitting the fan.In case of hobby market products that you can find on Ebay...nobody cares about. See the latest ESP8266 story as a good example of "high quality" QA/QC :http://www.esp8266-projects.com/2015/02/esp-07-module-problem-and-fix.html

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 09:52:12 am
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on March 15, 2015, 09:45:53 amWith all respect, this is exactly the wrong attitude that is feeding the proliferation of the crap that you can buy this days: sellers don't care about because buyers "Don't make a fuss about it, throw it away and buy some new ones." ...He was paying for a proper working product, clone or not clone of whatever stuff, it really doesn't matter.

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 10:00:06 am
content: Quote from: TJ232 on March 15, 2015, 09:52:12 amMy point is that he is ranting a "cheap chinese ebay thing" without even proper investigating what caused the fault. Every piece of electronics can fail when abused.Is it economical trying to repair a $4 clone?I think it is not, but if you think it is, knock yourself out.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 10:22:07 am
content: That is why they make the MINI a plug in board. Are you sure it is fried? I had another piece if electronics given to me because the 3V3 regulator fried and applied 11V to the electronics for an extended period of time. Strange but true, supplied the board with external 3,3V and it has been working fine for a year. Sometimes things just fail. I've used a lot of these boards. Even if the manufacturing is crap the failure rate is likely less than 0.001% and the likelyhood of you doing something wrong is 1%.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 11:09:03 am
content: QuoteHigh costs of low prices.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 12:07:13 pm
content: What surprises me about the cheap stuff on ebay is not that it occasionally fails. It amazes me that it works at all! I can buy a module from China, including shipping, for less than the cost of buying just the chip from a UK supplier.But ebay sellers exploit the flaw in the human nature : everyone wants good quality, but no one wants to pay for it. In the past, caveat emptor was the guiding principle for buyers, "there is one born every minute" the principle for sellers.We've willing handed over our manufacturing to China. Generally that is good, now Chinese cities have deadly smogs instead of ours. Eventually China will catch up with western standards, and the prices will increase, but in the meantime expect dodgy kit.

author: paf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 12:15:30 pm
content: The seller sells also soccer/football equipment... One of the things to avoid. Check always what kind of things the seller sells. If he sells only electronic parts/kits, then there is a remote chance that he knows what sells.

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 12:44:26 pm
content: Quote from: dany-boy on March 15, 2015, 05:36:41 amI would be very careful equatingreliablewith any particular marketplace site. All kinds/levels of sellers are attracted to those marketplaces. Blaming eBay is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. This is a result of a particular seller, or a particular class of sellers. There are good responsible sellers on eBay (and elsewhere) and there are people selling whatever they can get a hold of, to make a buck, on eBay (and elsewhere). The key is sorting out one from another. There was a thread a month back, with recommendations.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 12:46:10 pm
content: Mrs. Kreskie, you chose what's inside this paper bag.Why, why it's nothing but a bag of shit.Yes Mrs. Kreskie, but it's great shit .FIRESIGN THEATRE

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 01:08:53 pm
content: $9 and use for more than 1 year. It is not a bad shit. Definitely beat almost all the depreciation of your expensive gears by a large margin.

author: FlevasGR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 02:36:41 pm
content: From thos clones try picking only Sunfounder and Sainsmart. They're the most reliable boards since those 2 companies have many branded parts for arduino. On the other hand i would be awesome to make your own design! You will never worry again for boards. Just pick an Atmega328P few crystals, usb-to-serial and few caps and you're done

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 03:06:00 pm
content: Quote from: dany-boy on March 15, 2015, 05:36:41 amBuying electronics from Ebay is like spinning the wheel of fortune. I'm not in favour any longer of the low cost Ebay mantra as a result of the stronger dollar.

author: FlevasGR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 03:09:05 pm
content: Quote from: diyaudio on March 15, 2015, 03:06:00 pmThen i have to be the luckiest man in the world O0

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 04:14:03 pm
content: Quote from: FlevasGR on March 15, 2015, 02:36:41 pmThat is just what I did!I have customized it to my needs:- on board loader for a LiPo cell- on board reference, for accurate usage of the ADC- reset control- detection of the USB status- accurate measurement of LiPo voltage- only 8 uA sleep when running from a 3V3 regulator- only 160nA sleep when running direct from the LiPo cell.They are good, home made and tuned to my needs! I have full control over the supply chain.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 04:18:50 pm
content: QuoteThey are only good in capable hands.With the typical ebay buyers, nothing can be definitely good, as long as humanity hasn't figured out how to make 100% fool-proof products.

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 05:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on March 15, 2015, 04:18:50 pmI gave one to a nephew, who has ADHD, 2 months ago. Does that count?I put some extra resistors, on the board to increase the chance of survival

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 06:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on March 15, 2015, 04:14:03 pmNow im seriously envy of your skills... Nice work...

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 06:36:49 pm
content: Quote from: lapm on March 15, 2015, 06:23:41 pmYou make me blushPerhaps I make the design open source, and even sell some boards or complete assembled boards.No idea if anyone is interested. I have to write some documentation then

author: baoshi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 06:44:34 pm
content: Because of the geographical location and language advantage, I have been shopping from Chinese websites (taobao, same vendors usually sell on ebay internationally) for years. Here are some experiences:1. "Jellybean" parts are 90% fake. This includes voltage regulators, electrolytic caps, tantalum caps, MOSFETs, BJTs, Diodes, Opamps, FT232/PL23xx.2. MLCCs are remarking of domestic brand. Take caution of large value and small package caps. I have encounter whole reel of 1uF 0603 cap shorts itself after extended burn-in test. Small values are OK.3. Resistors are remarking of domestic brand. Tolerance could be over specified, but it is usually safe to use unless precision parts. 0.1% 6ppm SMD resistors (green color) are fake (value is ok, but drifting is bad).4. ST MCUs are real. This includes STM8 and STM32 series due to ST's aggressive marketing.5. Atmel are mostly refurbished parts, especially ATMega8/16/328/32U4. They usually comes in small volumes.6. Low end Microchip are rebranded Haier chip. Middle and high range PICs are real.7. Other brand MCUs are usually real. The technology has exceeded counterfeiter's capability.8. Many LT, BB and AD parts are reused parts salvaged from old equipment. If the seller has labeled them as reused parts, they are often real. New LT parts, if too cheap (<$0.5), are blank or some other chips that happen to have the same marking as LT.9. NAND Flash memories are reused parts. NOR flashes (MX25 type) are remarked domestic brand.10. Parts having a Taiwanese compatible counterpart (such as nRF24L01) are the remarked Taiwanese parts.11. In case of built-up modules, guess what they did to reduce cost.Good luck

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 07:35:40 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on March 15, 2015, 12:07:13 pmSo true. I just bought a few of these modules. Not only are the modules cheaper than the bare chip from a US supplier. The modules end up being cheaper than the bare chip from the same Chinese suppliers. Go figure. At least these modules are so simple any flaw will be obvious:http://www.ebay.com/itm/371222624673http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ACS712ELCTR-05B-T/620-1189-1-ND/1284606http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-SOP-8-ACS712ELCTR-05B-T-ACS712TELC-05B-ACS712ELCTR-05B-/360822122765

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 07:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: TJ232 on March 15, 2015, 09:47:15 amYou should have bought it from these guys. Do you believe them, though?Quote from: HonestEbaySellerhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-ESP8266-Esp-07-ESP07-Remote-Serial-Port-WIFI-Transceiver-Module-AP-STA-/171595396702

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 10:23:59 pm
content: if you are unable to make tinkering, modification, repair and verification job for a cheap stuff, then dont buy a cheap stuff. better yet dont buy arduino, if you want to say, make lipo charger or dso or whatever, just buy the thing, no need arduino.. "consumers electronics". ehh? my china arduino mega still working i modded it to get extra pin that was disconnected, maybe its from the official design? i dont know. what i know is now i have a more powerful mega (extra 1 pin) for cheap that works for years until now...

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 11:18:24 am
content: Quote from: TJ232 on March 15, 2015, 09:52:12 amAnd he got a working product - apparently it worked for a year before it died. And we don't know what caused the failure. Was it a shoddy regulator? Maybe. Was it a mistake in wiring up a circuit over the past year that didn't manifest itself until today? Also maybe. Is it the fault of the guy on eBay who sold it? Nope. But that is who is being blamed.I can assure you that buyers most certainly DO make a fuss when something they buy stops working. People who manufacture crap aren't doing so because nobody complains when it breaks - they are doing so because people want ten 100-watt LED's for $1 shipped anywhere in the world. Well, for that price, you get shit. It's people being massively cheap which leads to the decline of quality in goods, not the lack of complaining.

author: igendel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 11:38:16 am
content: Quote from: baoshi on March 15, 2015, 06:44:34 pmThis whole thread is fascinating. I have, literally, a mixed bag of MCUs - both certified genuine and too-cheap-to-be-true - and for my level of work I'm happy with all of them so far. I do keep them separated however, and watch the suspect ones closely...Can someone please clarify, what exactly is a "refurbished MCU"? Salvaged I can understand, but I couldn't find information about a refurbishing process that's profitable for large quantities. Thanks!

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 02:17:40 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on March 15, 2015, 04:14:03 pmWhile your boards are undoubtedly better than cheap Chinese ebay stuff, if you believe you have full control over the supply chain, you are fooling yourself.

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 02:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on March 16, 2015, 02:17:40 pmDidn't you know that people like to get fooledHonest, by choosing "respectable" suppliers I havesomecontrol over what I get. By doing a tight check when parts come in, I have a bit more control. Takes a lot of time, b.t.w.After reading it back I think a think I should have written: "reasonable control over the supply chain"So yeah .. I know that I am a fool ..

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 02:26:52 pm
content: Quote from: baoshi on March 15, 2015, 06:44:34 pmEBay is flooded with fake Cypress USB chips. I also came across suspect AD DDS chips, which behaved weird and had dodgy marking. I stopped buying ICs from eBay 'cause it often caused me wasted time and money, since on several occasions i had to desolder and replace them with stuff bought directly from manufacturers or Digikey.

author: baoshi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 02:43:38 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on March 16, 2015, 02:26:52 pmHmm you are right. Avoid MCUs with a 8051 core. ARM core is ok.AD9850 is fake.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2015, 04:20:28 pm
content: Reminds me of cc1101 modules i bought that didnt Work.not really sure the culprit but i've followed datasheet closely... other than that, the rest are working, pic/avr mcu, ad9850, transistor opamp etc they all work no problem. Latest purchase is mc43043 dcdc conv.works no problem.yes major reason 2buy frm china is because geography location and shipping cost. Occasionally i bought frm us but mostly shiping cost is more than the item cost.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2015, 04:33:09 am
content: I have had nothing but good luck with Chinese clones. I use it mostly for prototyping. Stuff where I don't care how long it will work or the things I just might fry myself and I don't mind burning a clone for it.I also use a few parts that I can only source from China, like specific displays and things like the esp8266 I can't find anywhere else.Specific parts I know I need I just source from Mouser or Digi Key. Often times the price difference is negligible too. And faster shipping and higher quality is worth the potential premium.So basically if I am hunting for a specific part, I first check Mouser, Digi Key and then I hit up ebay, aliexpress.As for the quality of Chinese sourced components, it's hit or miss. There are some sellers who sell good stuff, and then there are salvaged parts sellers who sell junk, but hey even the janky stuff works for messing around with (provided you know that your mileage may vary).When it comes to clone boards specifically, it depends. But usually you are getting what you pay for. It will be QCed to lower standards and it will use cheapest possible components. You have to make a decision if it's acceptable to you.As an example I ordered 10 mini pro boards and they have been great to me. Couldn't be happier for like $3 a piece. They even have a 3.3v/5v jumper which can be handy.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2015, 04:54:42 am
content: Quote from: diyaudio on March 15, 2015, 03:06:00 pmI bought plenty of stuff back when the loonie was strong and the paychecks were good.But I might change my little quip, I guess: "If you're just hoarding it, might as well sell it on ebay".