New toy - Occulus TI w/ pan & tilt - any ideas? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 10:28:35 am
content: Hi folksI got lucky on an Occulus thermal imaging and visible camera on a pan & tilt bracket. I was doubly lucky because the previous owner included a copy of the manual and even the pinout of the connector.The question is, what do I do now? A couple of croc clips onto the connector for DC in and hang a monitor on the output pins or should I go the whole hog and get myself a proper connector, Pelco controller and all that jazz? Or maybe just go in there fearlessly with a screwdriver and extract the TI and flog it on eBay. It's not like I actually *need* any more thermal cameras (and I've just spent a small fortune on a bargain Faxitron 20 digital X-Ray machine with 12x12cm sensor and original PC so my wallet could do with a refresh...)I don't even know the lens configuration or whether it's a 9 or 25/30Hz 320x240 or 640x480 TI in there. Can anyone tell anything from the label?

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 10:53:23 am
content: Doh! Why didn't I think of using another TI to look through the IR window to see what's inside?What a fine idea.The answer seems to be that there issomethingthere that may well be a TI.The window is a bit manky but (in the words of lens salesmen the world over) it "shouldn't affect image quality". I hope.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 11:00:21 am
content: looks like a lot of fairly easy to access screws. Open it up and learn from the inside out. If you have the power connector and some clips what stops you from finding out if it works?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 11:05:27 am
content: Take a look at the “Ganz C Allview thermal” camera and you may notice the similarityhttp://www.edinburgh-projector-sales.co.uk/midwich-pdfs/GANCATDNXR361H3.pdfFrom memory the options ranged from 160 x 120 pixels 9fps to 640 x 480 pixels 60fps but that was over several years of production.This camera came in many configurations so the only way to know what you have is to either decode it’s model number, access it’s configuration or take it apart. They do come apart easily but you breach the weather seals in doing so. I have a Ganz C Allview QVGA model and it is very nice. It has an extended thermal section on the front panel to accommodate a long range lens.Sadly these ‘static’ cameras are not that popular on eBay as the the buying public seem to prefer smaller, more portable units. I personally love the fine engineering in these Pan Tilt heads.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 11:16:31 am
content: This page may be if interest......https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/_metal-mickey_-thermal-cameras-and-what-they-are-by-fraser/I attach pictures of my Ganz C Allview Thermal in that thread.Fraser

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 11:30:45 am
content: Hi FraserThanks for this but I believe this may be a different beast. It's from Silent Sentinel (though I recognise it could be badge engineering) and the minimal research I've managed to do so far indicates that it's likely to be a minimum of 320x240. I admit I'll be very disappointed if it's less than that (unlike you I'm a "pixel slut" and value resolution very highly). I guess I might just have to add volts and see.Your caution about weather seals is gratefully noted. Although sold as "new" this unit has clearly seen some life (hence the state of the window and odd bits of corrosion), though if it is in working order then I see no reason why it shouldn't operate for many years to come. Yes the mechanical bearings may clap out and the wiper blade will wear, but beyond that...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:21:09 pm
content: From my experience, Ganz are the ones placing their badge on others productsRemember the DRS Ultra 6000 that Ganz labelled as ‘theirs’.Silent Sentinel are likely the OEM of my C Allview Thermal.Having looked at the Oculus specs ( yes I was tempted to buy that unit) I suspect you have a QVGA+ model but I could not decode the ID label as Oculus do not show this exact model ID on their web site. I could do my usual digging into the web sites history but that would have tempted me further into buying the camera... I resistedThe FV/Bosch MIC Metal Mickey cameras needed a PC utility to configure them. From memory, my Allview C needs no such utility so you may find your Oculas is similar. Driving a Pelco D camera is relatively painless. You can get cheap interfaces for a PC or a universal keyboard at very low cost. Unlike some telemetry systems, Pelco is is very common and well supported.I would have thought these amazingly rugged cameras would be very much in demand by vehicle borne hunters or estates security providers but it seems not to be the case. Good for us, not so good for the sellers. I think the small handheld thermal scopes and thermal weapon sights are in greater demand. I have a few of those so will find out what demand is like when I sell themFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:42:06 pm
content: You can easily remove the front panel but just take care not to damage the seals if you use any prising tools to overcome ‘stiction’.That is the quickest way to identify exactly what core is fitted. The Oculus spec says you should find a DRS core behind that face plate. DRS make very nice coresYou May also be able to identify the lens specification if it is labelled.Fraser

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 01:15:59 pm
content: I'll have a go as soon as time permits, then. Unlikely to be today, but we'll see.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 03:18:26 pm
content: I may be able to assist with a matching connector, and can 100% confirm that the design was not done by GANZ (which is itself a sub-brand). I can PM you, though I'm pretty flat out at the moment so may be a few days (I also owe Fraser a reply!). Did you manage to find the pinout btw, or do you need a hand with that too?

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 03:39:28 pm
content: Thanks HydronI do have the connector pinout, albeit drawn in black on a black background! In my minimal research so far I have found a good quality pinout diagram elsewhere and I'll line it up with what I can read of the hand-annotated copy.If you can point me at a connector or even a pigtail lead I'd really appreciate it. They must be reasonably readily available but the trick is to know precisely what you're looking for!

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 04:00:17 pm
content: If I can dig one up you can have it for the postage cost - I regret to say that I witnessed a bunch of them (with cables attached) go out the door as WEEE scrap last yearEdit: if I fail to find one I can almost certainly find you the connector part number, though it will be a combination of a shell and appropriate pin inserts

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 06:27:46 pm
content: Hydron,I could use a connector plug as well, if you can find anotherFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 06:59:18 pm
content: Details of the connector on my Ganz branded unitThe pins used appear identical to the Oculus unitFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 07:07:02 pm
content: The Silent Sentinel Oculus IL and a picture of my thermal version. Hmmm think we know who made my C-AllviewThe Silent Sentinel is a infrared illumination equipped night vision camera and is not thermal. The similarity to the C-Allview thermal camera case design is clear however.My C-Allview Thermal was from Military surplus disposals and came with what I call a Darth Vader helmet that mounts on top of the unit to protect it from the desert heat. A hint to its intended deployment maybeFraserIndex to pictures....Top : Silent Sentinel IL infrared cameraMiddle : Ganz C Allview ThermalBottom: my Ganz C Allview Thermal

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 08:00:12 pm
content: In case the information is of use to anyone, I have quickly searched out my Ganz C-Allview Thermal camera information archive.I have wrapped it all up in a ZIP file and uploaded it to File Dropper. The ZIP file contains the User and Installer manuals plus some software that I think is for these Ganz cameras. I have two older versions of the software as well but did not include them.Interestingly, I do not appear to have the connector pin-out for the camera so that information would be gratefully received. It would also appear that I did some research on the connector manufacturer and model. I have included the datasheets etc for what I believe to be the connector range used on the camera..... ITT/Cannon TRIDENT connectors. I did all this research long ago so sadly cannot remember much of what I found out about these very nice cameras.File Dropper link to ZIP file......http://www.filedropper.com/c-allviewEnjoyFraser

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 08:01:29 pm
content: I am champing at the bit to have a good look at my camera(s) but it will have to wait for a little while. I still haven't got my new Thermovision 900 LWIR system running (though that's not a disaster, nodding knowingly at Fraser). Today's Care Package from the Recycling Gods was a Faxitron 20 microfocus X-ray cabinet with all the trimmings including a 12 x 12cm 4Mpix sensor. Haven't had a chance to play with it in any detail yet but I managed a spectacularly detailed image of a micro SD card that must have a resolution of something like 10um (possibly much better; I haven't done the sums yet). Its resolution knocks my modified mail scanner into a cocked hat but the latter produces much harder X-rays so it can see inside more metallic stuff. Perhaps I should point out at this juncture that these machines are key-protected, designed for an office-type environment (ie heavily shielded and interlocked) and used in a place where everyone is well over 18 (well over 36, for that matter) so the potential for harm is extremely low. Particularly after I explained to my partner that the shorter wavelengths didn't mean it would cook faster than the microwave oven

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 08:08:08 pm
content: Enjoy your new toysI will send you the Administrator password for the Faxitron MX-20 by PMTry not to get too addicted to taking X-Ray images (I did!) .... my wife started to think I loved the MX-20 more than her as I spent many late nights playing with itResolution is officially 20um but, as you say, the imaging is amazing ! I have some special X-Ray resolution test pieces and it resolved them with no difficulty at allFraser

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 10:23:04 pm
content: So I dug up a couple of matching connectors of this style, but with the correct gender and plastic rather than metal locking rings (still compatible with the plug on the bottom of the camera):https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-automation-circular-connectors/1679607/I also have a couple dozen bits of wire terminated in the correct crimps (pulls from other connectors - I have the correct pin removal tool), all long enough to make a connection to but not very tidy/pretty. About half are 5-6cm long, the others about 30cm. I suspect I have some more lying around somewhere, or in other connectors that I can scavenge from - there definitely will be enough for two sets.Am happy to send each of you a connector plus enough crimped wires to for the pins actually in use for the price of postage (will probably be <5 quid for a small parcel via 1st or 2nd class Royal Mail) if you wanted a connector for some quick testing. PM with details if interested.Given the prices for new connectors and crimps aren't too insane from RS etc, you'd probably be better served to grab the actual part from RS plus the correct crimps for real use once the camera is confirmed working:https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-automation-circular-connectors/0468484/(don't have the link to the crimps, but should be easy to find and they weren't too expensive the last time I bought some)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 10:36:31 pm
content: Hydron,I just need a test setup to start with so your kind offer is very much appreciatedI will send my details and pay all costsThank YouFraser

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 09:02:11 am
content: HydronLikewise, as Fraser said. I'll PM you.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 03:29:48 pm
content: Silent Sentinel have some very useful manuals online including user / installation guides for a number of their different products. It's worth having a look athttps://silentsentinelhelp.helpdocs.com/user-guides

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 03:56:10 pm
content: It lives!First light from the LWIR camera attached.All I can say so far is that it's 25Hz and the image looks fairly crisp, even though I was way closer than its near-focus distance. The only thing that's obviously wrong is that the FFC flag didn't appear to be moving: every so often the camera would clearly have a FFC event but all it did was null out the background it was seeing. I suppose for surveillance of a single direction that'd mean anything coming into view would be very obvious, but I can't imagine it's how the thing is supposed to be.Although the Occulus unit is specified at 28V I was only able to feed it 24V - and with limited current, at that. I don't suppose that's why the FFC wasn't working: I expect the camera itself runs from a lower voltage derived from the main rail.I wasn't able to form an opinion on whether the camera was 320x240 or 640x480. The monitor I was using to test it was 800x600 so anything I throw at it is going to be scaled. The photo is a very poor off-screen shot: I was holding the pan & tilt unit up with one hand, steadying the connections with the other, holding the monitor with another and using my spare hand to manipulate the phone camera.My next step will probably be to crack the unit open carefully and see what the core actually is. Stay tuned...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 04:36:54 pm
content: A non operational FFC flag creates some really weird effects on a pan tilt camera as it moves. It is not a normal situation for such a camera so a fault is present in the unit. The seller said the unit was fully operational so you do have grounds for renegotiation if you wish to take that path.The FFC flag failure may be the reason that the camera was decommissioned and how it came to appear on eBay. The seller told me he has seen others working and the imagery was excellent so this camera likely came from a multi thermal camera deployment.As to what may be causing the problem with the FFC flag ? .... well the good news is that the camera electronics are carrying out an FFC event so at least the command is being acted upon. This suggests a failure in the FFC solenoid driver IC, the Solenoid wiring or the solenoid mechanics. Sometimes the FFC shutter just gets stuck on one of the end stops. This can cause a ‘no image’ symptom or the symptoms you are seeing. Stuck FFC shutters can also be due to lubrication migration causing stiction of the flag or solidified lubrication grease, due to heat. Exterior cameras are vulnerable to Sunlight induced heating, hence why some have sun shades fitted. Corrosion is another cause of FFC solenoid problems but such is unlikely when a camera is well sealed and in excellent exterior condition, such as is the case with yours. Condensation is often evident in the visible light camera window if water has got inside the head.You may well find that the FFC flag just needs a nudge to get it moving again. If so, do investigate why it had stuck in the open position. If it sits against a rubber buffer, make sure the rubber has not degraded making it sticky. Look for lubrication migration or dried grease as detailed above. If nothing is visible it is possible that the unit got dropped and the FFC flag jammed open as a result. Such should not occur again with careful use.The good news is that most FFC flag related issues are relatively easy to diagnose and repair.Once you take the faceplate off of the camera you will likely have a better idea what is going on. I do not know for sure, but I would expect removal of the faceplate to provide access to the mountings for the thermal core that will be be securely fixed to the main body of the ‘head’. Removal of the core may be a relatively easy task if the design permits its removal through the front of the casing, as I would expect. Some military ball heads that I have worked on are far more problematic as the thermal core is buried in a complex chassis, along with lots of other modules around it, and you have to disassemble the head contents through a small access hole and extract parts to provide assess to the core. Thankfully that is not likely to be the case with the Silent SentinelLooking forward to seeing what core resides within your Silent Sentinel OculusFraser

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 04:58:46 pm
content: I have experience a stuck flag myself. It fixed itself as soon as I opened it and turned it on. I saw that the little pin with both ends of the flag was moving but both flags were stuck to eachother. I barely touched it and next cycle it operated again. Use your earlier method of looking through the lens with another thermal imager to see no flags moving.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 03:32:46 pm
content: If you unscrew and remove the wiper arm from the hub then the front plate should be free to come off once you undo the four torx screws. Unless the design has changed for your particular unit then the thermal core should be attached to the back of this plate, so all you'd need to do is unplug it's cable and it should come free with the front plate. Getting to anything else requires significantly more disassembly work, but thankfully is probably unnecessaryWould be interesting to know which thermal camera is used in your unit - I know that IRISYS and Thermal Eye (L3) cores have been used in the earlier thermal units, but yours may be not be one of these.If you have any issues or need more info then feel free to PM me.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 03:50:29 pm
content: Many thanks Hydron - that's an incredibly useful piece of teardown advice. As soon as I get a chance I'll ping the lid and see what's inside!I suspect I won't immediately be able to tell much about the core, mostly due to my ignorance, but I take comfort from the fact that there are knowledgeable people here who will know the answers. Either that or the're better at Google than me...Expect photos and other info in due course.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 05:10:58 pm
content: Well! That was a great deal easier than I expected!The screws all came out fairrly easily and, as Hadron said, the core was attached to the front plate. Simples!All is revealed. It's a DRS Tamarisk 320x240 60Hz core with 40° lens, PAL 625 output and a feature board, according to the part number decoder at the end of theLeonardo datasheet.The feature board, as you can see, talks to the world via a single multiway connector. The mating connector was installed, with numerous grey wires attached that disappeared as a loom into the darkness of the housing. Something to explore when I have another few minutes.Is there any readily-available data on the feature board Part #: 1011339-001? I understand it adds " power, RS-170 video-out, RS-232 and USB 2.0 serial command and control through a single 30-pin connector", so that bodes well.It's a lovely, tiny little core. I haven't tried to power it up again yet, partly because of time constraints and partly because I want to find out a little more before I do so. All information contributions welcome!

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 06:02:22 pm
content: that's a tiny one. Acal bfi is the official distributor for FLIR OEM parts in Germany, I had contact with them already. The 30 pin looks very familiar to that found on my Thermoteknix core, I got a part number for it that I can look up - I need to buy some new connectors for it anyway.

author: Cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 07:24:00 pm
content: Interesting, the same part number of the tamarisk core like mine, even with the Acal BFi sticker on it.The connector on the feature board is a 30-pin JST BM30B-SRDS-G-TF, pinout and everything is described in theElectrical Interface Control Documentavailable on the DRS homepage. Since the document currently fails to load I attached it.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2019, 08:37:52 am
content: Here are some not-brilliant photos of the Tamarisk feature board plus some equally not-brilliant X-Ray images, all done in haste. It looks as though I might not get another chance to do more on this for the next several days so I thought a few snatched shots would be better than nothing.The X-Rays aren't great but I do have the original 'raw' 10MB+ DICOM files if anyone wants them to play with them to change sharpening, density slicing or whatever - drop me a PM if you're interested. Manipulating the original files gives hugely more control over the resulting image than the jpgs I've posted here, each of which was 'tweaked' in a paint program from a TIFF original with limited dynamic range. I think the original DICOM files are 12- or 14-bit dynamic range.Just so you know, none of my X-Ray machines are powerful enough to see through the ferrite cores so what's beneath them will remain a mystery.