Getting SMPS designed with Chinese components - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 08:43:50 pm
content: Hi,Ive just seen this...https://www.eevblog.com/2018/11/15/eevblog-1147-mad-1-cent-regulator/..is there a known practice where a Western company designs an SMPS using Western components (eg semiconductors etc) , then takes it over to China and pays them to make a "Chinese version" of it, using equivalent Chinese semiconductors, which have only Chinese datasheets?According to the "Mad regulator" video, Chinese semiconductors (at least 3v3 regs) cost six times less than Western ones.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 09:30:59 am
content: Perhaps many Chinese semiconductors are clones of Western semiconductors?I wouldn't have thought so. If someone wants a product made that cheaply, they'll just subcontract the whole thing to a Chinese engineering company who'll use Chinese parts.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 12:35:13 pm
content: This!The far eastern design shops will know their available parts and costs far better then you will and designing to take best advantage of a given part takes knowing what you have available for production.Just tell your far eastern design house what you want to achieve, not how to get there (I hate customers who try to tell me how to design whatever it is they want, and I don't see a far eastern engineer feeling so very differently).Note that writing a spec for a remote design house is something of a skill in itself, physical sizes, required standards compliance (and approvals, and what paperwork you will need), temperature range, MBTF (and method used to calculate it, and at what temperature), required ESD/Surge/Transient immunity levels, mounting holes, environmental classification, safety, tropicalisation ...., also your required lead times and penalties for failing to meet them, you need to spell it all out.You should also specify what does not matter, if mounting holes can be re positioned, say so, it can sometimes save you money.It is a very good idea to use a well recommended fixer in the area where your manufacturing is happening to deal with the differences in culture and to make sure you get what you ordered, costs a few quid but well worth it because they will know where the traps are (Also, budget to fly out a few times).Regards, Dan.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 09:53:12 pm
content: Thanks, i think we're soon coming to the day where the vast majority of eletronics goods are designed and manufactured in China/ Far East.......and the West will have very few semiconductor fab plants left.Ultimately, the West wont be able to do electronics at all.....that's the way its going.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2018, 10:21:30 am
content: that's what i mean, China will phase out the west...the rate of Chinese technological advancement is truly phenominal. China probably already has 7nm tech.With all respect, when I was at school in the 70’s we used to do “round the world”, where we would look at what people did in the different countries…….it is with all respect to China that I say this..our teacher would hold up a picture of a Chinese person…it would be a guy in a round pointy hat, wading around barefoot in paddy fields picking rice………now look at Shenzehn today!The Chinese will soon phase the West out regarding technology. The Chinese are (perhaps unwittingly?) using the greed of the Western capitalistic mentality, which is too self interested to look at the bigger picture….the Chinese are using this (perhaps unwittingly ) against the West itself.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 10:01:19 am
content: I've deleted a whole bunch of ridiculous off-topic political talk from this thread. Keep it on topic or it gets locked.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:02:40 am
content: Quote from: treez on November 23, 2018, 09:53:12 pmNot at all. If anything the industry is expanding and the explosion of small cheap manufacturing machinery for the small business is only proof of that but again they are made in china to keep things cheaper.It's really a decision you take at the start. If you want it as cheap as possible then go straight to china but be prepared for the culture or as suggested employ a local mediator. I once bought electrolytic through hole capacitors on the assumption they were radial, i mean what else exists? nope, I was sold axial but I never specified.So either design it yourself with the chinese parts or let a chinese design house do it who know part availability. You can design with main brand parts but then even a chinese assembly house will not be able to cut much off the cost.Volumes is an important thing to consider, if it's low is it worth you investment it time and money to go to china? At work we do typically batches of 100 and the local assembly house make them for the cost of the PCB and parts alone because of the deals they get in distribution. It really would not be worth our while dealing with a chinese assembly house and all the pitfalls unless it was large scale production.There are also European manufacturers, Wurth elektronik own several not so well known european manufacturers and are concentrating on quality as opposed to price and they will deal direct with business customers cutting out the fussy and incompetent distributors that just make loads of money. They are certainly setting themselves up for growth in an industry that is crying out for more availability.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:13:06 am
content: I wonder why they are called radial when the legs are not radial. Should be non-axial or something else, I don't know, but not radial. Sorry for the off topic :-)

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:27:11 am
content: QuoteThanks, the problem is the Chinese parts have datasheets in Chinese.....the english versions of the datasheets dont have enough info with which to do a design....eg take a look at the bpsemi.com led driver datasheets.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:32:05 am
content: Well i wonder why they did that?I have often had people ask me for a MOSFET for chinese grid tie inverter. The problem was I could not obtain the transistor for which i was lucky to find a chinese datasheet and could not buy one anywhere and an equivalent from a mainstream manufacturer was x10 the price. I really can't think why though

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:59:40 am
content: Quote from: treez on November 25, 2018, 11:27:11 amSo you either spend the time to prototype, or pay more for western parts.Or ask the manufacturer - If you're a serious customer I'm sure they'd help you out. If your volumes are small, then the savings on using Chinese parts are negligible so not worth persuing.Something that surprised me while browsing LCSC for obscure chips was that without exception, the English datasheets had good to perfect English - I don't think I saw a single example of Chinglish, so chances are you could get good info out of them where needed