a device for handwritten notes notes and drawing with a pen - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 12:23:12 pm
content: So, I want to replace my paper block-notes with something that helps saving trees.But what to buy?A few products I am considering:RemarkableII: 600 euro shipped. Linux based, but custom application. eInk display.Apple iPad Air: 700 euro shipped. iOS based. not eInk display, it can run different Apps.Lenovo Yoga (with touch screen): 1200 euro shipped. It can run Linux and Windows >=v10. Not eInk display.Other choice...?I need todraw flowcharts (it really helps me designing software, FSMs, and organizing my thoughts)take handwritten notes during reunions and conferences -> I need something I can put in a small bagtake handwritten notes, read, and highlight lines, and review pdf documents (I only need to operate with pdf)convert my handwritten notes into textI strongly need to operate both indoor and outdoorsometimes I may have to operate without the ability to charge the battery (max 96 hours)save and load documents to a laptop via WifiPaper-like writing and reading is a bonus, not a mustWhat would you suggest?

author: rpiloverbd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 12:29:51 pm
content: I think you can consider the following devices:Huion HS611 Graphics Tablet SpaceWacom One Medium CTL-672 Graphics Tablet

author: globoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 05:22:09 pm
content: The remarkable does everything on your list. It's expensive for sure but - in my experience - is really a pleasure to use, and useful for what it claims to do. I tried a few other devices (samsung phone with stylus, ipad, some android writing tablet) and it was best for me. The "writing" experience really works. The desktop and mobile apps are ok - getting better over time. I guess now you have to pay for some of their cloud subscriptions (original buyers were grandfathered in).My uses are to take notes for myself, to create drawings I sometimes send to clients, to read and edit (sign) PDF documents, to download recipes from the web (cookbook), to read some epub books and - lol - to create grocery lists I send to my phone to use at the store... It has reduced what used to be endless pieces of paper with notes scattered everywhere to one place.I think the proprietary file format has been figured out by people and if you want you can SSH into it (some people are creating new "apps" to run on it).

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 11:46:53 pm
content: I agree with @globoy.Remarkable2 will fit your needs nicely.Although I doubt 96 hours continuous is possible.I turn the WiFi off on mine until I need to sync the contents. I use it for perhaps 2 to 3 hours a day continuous and only charge it once a week at most.And, yes the proprietary file format has been figured out and is not hard to manipulate.I was on the pre-order list for Rm2 and received mine in Nov 2020.I have used it almost every day since then.I also have a laptop with touch and stylus (HP Elite X2), but find the Rm2 far superior for notes, diagrammes and marking up PDFs.It has a very realistic 'pencil on paper' feel when using it.

author: jpyeron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 05:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: Mr.B on February 04, 2022, 11:46:53 pmQuote from: globoy on February 04, 2022, 05:22:09 pmbesides remarkablewiki.com what other resources are known?

author: 50ShadesOfDirt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 06:31:17 pm
content: You could go low-tech with a "rocketbook" notepad and pen.Use their special (inexpensive) pen to write in a special notebook (comes in many sizes), snap pic with phone, and it gets digitized for you. Then, wipe the page clean with a damp rag.https: //www.amazon.com/Rocketbook-Smart-Reusable-Notebook-Friendly/dp/B07WMVDX64/Electronic versions of these devices always left me hanging in one way or another (tech abandoned, device breaks, etc.)Hope this helps ...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 07:00:58 pm
content: I've been looking for this as well for a while - not for saving trees, honestly, because I'm not sure using all those tech gadgets really has a lower impact on the environment than just using pens and paper, on the contrary (and frankly, I don't feel like I'm killing nature by buying one notebook and a couple pens every year) - but mostly for being able to easily store notes digitally (scanning is doable but a PITA), and if said tool can automatically "vectorize" drawings and transform written text to text, all the better.From your list, the remakable 2 looks like one that I would at least like to try - the rest, no thanks. Classic tablets are hopeless for this IMHO.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 07:18:47 pm
content: No hardware recommendations, but I do have a software suggestion...https://concepts.app/en/The youtuber "Stuff Made Here":https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj1VqrHhDte54oLgPG4xpuQuses it all the time on his channel and highly recommends it:https://youtu.be/IcjgrB9vTec?t=130s

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 07:20:56 pm
content: I have the reMarkable2 and have mostly been happy with it - 6/10Gorilla Physics on youTube IMO is worth watching - as he is good at comparing a few other options, and discussing their strengths and weaknesses.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 08:17:00 pm
content: Quote from: armandine2 on February 05, 2022, 07:20:56 pm"only" 60% happy?

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 10:14:30 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 05, 2022, 08:17:00 pmwell, its tech so there is always some buyer's regret. And of course there are alternatives to give you those second thoughts.The reMarkable tablet is alright on build quality, a bit minimalist. The setup is simple to use and I've made my notes more readable, for sure. The pen nibs are weird - not sure why these are not longer lasting.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 11:01:54 pm
content: Quote from: jpyeron on February 05, 2022, 05:02:52 pmA windows based app for adding custom templates, manipulating various settings and doing backups:https://www.freeremarkabletools.com/A comprehensive list of tools and third party apps:(Includes file manipulation scripts and code)https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkableFacebook group (one of many):How to get the best out of my rM

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 09:46:32 am
content: Something like this?https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2/

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 11:07:21 am
content: Yup, it looks the best option, so I just ordered one.Some days ago I ordered a low spec Apple M1.Both devices I am going to use for a couple of work outdoors commitments.My budget for the next two months is negative

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 06:31:34 am
content: I'd love to hear how you go. I'm considering a Remarkable 2 for myself. I know they aren't cheap, but they are unlike anything else on the market at the moment.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 09:17:42 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 04, 2022, 12:23:12 pmBear in mind that the environmental impact of an electronic tablet is enormous. Go electronic if you need the features, but don’t think for a second that it’s the better ecological choice. Paper, recycled when you’re done, is far better.For context, the total lifecycle carbon footprint of an iPad is equivalent to nearly 8000 pages of new paper, or almost 14,000 pages of 100% recycled paper:https://slate.com/technology/2011/09/paper-versus-the-ipad-is-taking-notes-on-a-tablet-computer-or-a-notepad-more-environmentally-responsible.htmlThat’s a lot of notes.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 12:19:39 pm
content: For that I would just use my Microsoft Surface.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 05:15:23 pm
content: While the Remarkable 2 looks like the better polished version of a note taking device, I saw that they now have a subscription-based model. You can still buy and use one of those without subscribing, but then the initial cost is $100 higher and a number of useful features are not available. So that definitely made it a non-option for me.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 07:34:20 pm
content: This thread prompted me to look again at larger screened e-ink devices. My use case is a bit more reading that drawing, so I went for the Onyx Boox Note Air. (The v1 was cheaper than the v2 and it seemed enough for me). I'm fairly happy with it, although the start-up time could be quicker. My Nook e-readers are more or less instant.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 08:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 18, 2022, 05:15:23 pmcan you list?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 09:24:29 pm
content: I'm tempted to start yet another forever project:WaveShare 1872×1404 7.8" e-paper module(300 DPI, 4-bit grayscale)BuyDisplay 10.1" capacitive multi-touch panelwithGoodix GT9271 10-point multitouch controllerOlimex ESP32-S2-DevKit-LiPo-USB-EAorTeensy 4.1with 16 MiB ofPSRamwith the handheld 'enclosure' first developed using air-curing clay (FimoAir), then 3D printed when I find a physical shape I like.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 11:51:34 pm
content: QuoteIn fact, I don't feel limited for the basic features I need- take notes- annotate PDFs- draw notes

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2022, 11:56:56 pm
content: Limitations, things you can't do without subscription:you can’t send your note on pc as native formatyou can only send your note on pc as pdf and pngyou can't edit it again as standard note but only as pdfyou can’t send your note with emailthe only notes that you can edit again are that saved on their cloud or on you device(here I don't care, I don't need to expert anything, I need to operate on the device)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2022, 12:13:50 am
content: So, you found out before I got to reply.Quote from: DiTBho on February 18, 2022, 11:56:56 pmThis one sounds pretty "severe", because that means, since you don't have access to the cloud service either (which per se I don't care about), thatyou can't backup your notes in native format at all.QuoteThat's better than nothing. At least they did not prevent that. But...QuoteThis is sorta related to the first point, but even worse.QuoteI don't care about sending with email directly (as long as I can retrieve the notes on another device), I don't care about using their cloud, but I care that it's the only way of storing or editing the raw notes.IIRC, one other feature that you don't get without subscription is text recognition, which is a shame.And apart from those annoyances, I just don't want to encourage companies with this business model. I know it's the "new" shiny model that makes loads of cash and makes shareholders drool, but it rarely profits customers, makes them "forever" renters, and I just hate it.Nominal's idea of designing one's own device is interesting, but it would take a lot of time getting something half as polished as this.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2022, 12:34:19 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 18, 2022, 09:24:29 pmOne year ago I developed a "scratchpad" program for my PDA. It's written for SDL an it directly accesses the framebuffer.You can use a pen on the touchscreen to draw segments in 3 colors, and you have an option to selectively erase pixels somehow like with a rubber eraser. It's not smart, anyway, it's rather pretty wild like the most of my projects.It's a toy and it took me 10 month of work (here, include "because it includes several Overaly-things for Gentoo). I mean ... the Onyx Note Air2 costs 500 euro, the Max Lumia2 (13" bigger screen) costs 900 euro, both are Android-tablets and, beside there is a company under the products, the software is just "decent" enough rather than brilliant.The RM2 is a Linux device with a brilliant software with a philosophical problem: can you accept to *pay* for extra options?I don't care, I don't need them, but it's frankly annoying to hear, just ... rationally the RM2 is still better than an Onyx Note Air2.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2022, 01:13:56 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 19, 2022, 12:34:19 amWell put. Exactly. If you can afford it and you think it would work for you better than pen and paper or alternatives do, go for it.Me, I like to do my sketching with gel ink pens on aquarelle/watercolor paper (rough and thick), sometimes coloring some details with wood colors. Unsurpassed tactile feedback and detail fidelity... I've always felt a bit of a guilty pleasure about it (they're not exactly cheap), but Tooki reminded me about the recycling aspects – and I do recycle all of my paper waste – so I'm considering getting a nice new pad and maybe a couple of pens (colored ones would be nice).I do have a Samsung SM-T805 tablet I'd like to repurpose with my own custom userspace software; for reading PDFs and eBooks, annotating and writing stuff (with OCR would be nice), and maybe browsing the net and watching online videos. But I don't want the/a full Android environment, just my own stuff; I've been researching how to completely reprogram the entire thing, from the bootloader forward, even if bricked. (It's old, but very little used, in mint condition; super AMOLED 10.5" 2560×1600, 288 DPI display.)

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 12:58:35 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 19, 2022, 01:13:56 amWow, *that's a good idea*What aboutXournal++on it?Xournal is a gtk-based application for notetaking, sketching, and keeping a journal using a stylus.I cannot run it on my PDA because it requires a full X11 environment, and my PDA is an old device where X11 is too slow. That's why I implemented an SDL-direct-fb sketching application.But, on your tablet it should run nicely!Some alternatives:ExOrOpenBoardOneNote

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 10:58:21 am
content: Now they don't accept Paypal.Well, they accept Paypal for the pen and for the Folio, but not for Remakable2.Say, it's ok up to 250 euro, but it's not when you have to pay 600 euro.Credit card-only. Bad choice here, but it can be compensated with cash-back.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 12:18:56 pm
content: Looking atKobo Elipsa, but I don't know, is it good? is it bad? I have mixed feelings about it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 02:05:25 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 18, 2022, 09:17:42 amIf you use the device for ebooks, it doesn't take much to get to more than 8000 pages of content.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 02:28:29 pm
content: Yup, for ebooks-only, a simple (second hand) kindle PaperWhite is fine!Kindle Oasis - with adjustable warm light - looks better but it's expensive for what it gives you(Brand new) Kindle Oasis-> 250 euro(Brand new) PaperWhite -> 130 euro(Second hand 2017) PaperWhite -> 70 euroBut I need a device for handwritten notes notes and drawing with a pen, and this is opens a completely different context.

author: 50ShadesOfDirt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 02:30:32 pm
content: What's interesting most about all of these projects (reMarkable, others) is the community enablement behind them (or lack of, which goes into which device to buy).If the device is easily hackable, as reMarkable seems to be with its Linux OS and the pointers above to other tools under development, then regardless of device and its "subscription/capture" model, we can turn it to our own use. The original developer never intended or dreamed of us doing such with their device. That's power ...The reMarkable *seems* to be hackable and has what appears to be a huge community behind it. I'm wasting many hours poking into all of them, to see if I can hack the reMarkable into doing what I want (e-ink touchscreen stuff). Don't yet know if I'm buying a reMarkable, or trying to build something similar with RPi.Fun stuff ...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:30:44 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on March 10, 2022, 02:05:25 pmYep, but that’s not one of the use cases the OP specified.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:50:17 pm
content: I still do agree that it doesn't make sense from an environmental POV - not even for reading books IMHO, if you look at things on a large scale.I personally would have liked to find those devices useful, unfortunately I still don't. Just stuff that would end up in drawer after just a few weeks of use.Not to mention the general problem of the batteries on those devices. Like on phones and tablets. Given how thin those drawing tablets are, changing batteries is probably as hacky as doing that on a modern mobile phone. And those batteries are not designed to last more than 2 to 3 years of regular use. While it sucks for mobile phones, you might say that a 3-year phone these days is close to obsolete anyway from a number of standpoints. But if you're buying a drawing/notetaking tablet, it does make no sense. If you buy that, it's for long-term use, otherwise it's WAY worse than just using pens and paper.So what's the plan of those companies with the batteries? I'm curious.

author: 50ShadesOfDirt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:06:05 pm
content: I always look for "tear-down" pages, for any device under consideration, as battery replacement is a biggie. Will it be as hard as the old Amazon phone, which was glued in (my success rate was about 50%), or as easy as my current LG with replaceable batteries?A remarkable tear-down pic is attached ... battery looks replaceable; that's good enough for me.A few tech tries have managed to land in a drawer, and I pull them out every once in a while, and try to find new life for them. Far many others have made it all the way to the "everything fell off with heavy use, and now what's left will no longer boot up" stage.But even then, there's hope, if you (can afford to) do what I do in most of these cases ... buy two. One is fed into the other as parts, over time ... if the company really plays ball (doesn't change their models too much), this can be kept up for a long time ...

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 09:54:33 pm
content: umm, good Linux tablets that can run one of the programs I listed above.Which Linux tablet? That's the problem.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:52:37 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 10, 2022, 05:50:17 pmDon't fully charge or discharge the batteries (except every 1-2 months to correct SOC drift) and they'll last much longer. If your device is supported, this app is very helpful:https://f-droid.org/en/packages/mattecarra.accapp/

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 10:12:06 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on March 10, 2022, 11:52:37 pmI got said the opposite"please, don't partially charge the battery of your laptop, charge it only when the battery is below 4%" (Lenovo)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 06:17:40 pm
content: This has been discussed a lot, another thread talking about just that lately too.All of this is highly dependent on so many factors including implementation and the battery itself that there really isn't one way of improving things.*Full* charge cycles (from fully discharged to fully charged) are going to shorten the lifetime, but you never really know what a full cycle really is for a given device.And, we also know that storing a Li-ion battery at the max SoC for an extended period of time (that would be typical if you mainly use a laptop on AC with the battery plugged in) is detrimental. Some laptops implement charging algorithms such that this does not happen, but it really... depends. On some, this is a setting, that is not even enabled by default.But while you can make a difference, Li-ion batteries have a pretty limited number of charge cycles anyway. Usually from 200 to 500. Now what those figures mean depends on the manufacturer to some degree. A good Li-ion battery will still have around 80% of its original capacity after 500 cycles, while many will just start to degrade rapidly after a couple hundreds of cycles. If you're charging your device every day, it's rarely going to exceed 3 years even if you're "careful". I personally never managed to get beyond about 3 years, on many different devices. This is definitely a problem if the battery is not supposed to be replaced, which is the norm these days.I just replaced the battery of a 3-odd year old tablet a few days ago. It's often a major pain, as the old battery is often hard to remove due to the adhesive getting extremely hard to remove after 3 years. (Using hot air to dissolve the adhesive may help, but I don't feel comfortable heating up a large LiPo battery...)Anyway. I'll stick to paper and pen for handwritten notes for the foreseeable future. =)

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 01:41:01 am
content: Just thought of this: What's the environmental cost for printed paper rather than blank paper? I wouldn't be surprised if the ink or toner is a lot worse than the paper it's printed on, especially for consumer printers that use disposable cartridges rather than just adding a refill.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 04:31:57 am
content: A serious problem is that toner causes cancer.My father died for cancer, likely for this reason.Strong correlation between "lung cancer" andnine hours everyday in an office "near printers".

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 04:20:34 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on March 19, 2022, 04:31:57 amShow me the data...Link to peer reviewed medical study.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 05:48:47 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on March 20, 2022, 04:20:34 amThere is no scientific agreement on this, as far as I can see. The below is my own understanding, but this is not my own field, so it is superficial at best, completely wrong at worst. (I post this to show how I built my opinion on this, in case others want to investigate the matter further.)Note that it is the particle size, especially for the nanoparticles; it is not chemical toxicity, that is at issue in toners. (We have "highly insoluble particles with low cytotoxicity" in the micrometer and sub-micrometer size classes in toners, in other words.)There are studies both for and against, depending on the exact types of toner involved. Interestingly, a 1995articleindicates that pure carbon toners should not be carcinogenic; and that chronic inflammation should be observed before the load should be large enough to cause cancer. In plain terms, that it is not a "silent killer", and one will observe lung issues when the particle load is high enough to indicate cancer hazard.Nanoparticles (as used in some of the newer toners) are a bigger question mark, as they are both smaller (well under a micrometer in size) and tend to be used for their surface chemical properties, making them chemically more active ("sticky", "reactive"); but their cytotoxicity is a completely open question. Surprisingly, cytotoxicity might be preferable here, because if embedded in an alveola in the lungs, it is the non-cytotoxic particles that are a cancer risk: toxic particles tend to get "neutralized".The Brom and Driscoll 2019 articleThe hazards and risks of inhaled poorly soluble particles – where do we stand after 30 years of research?looks like a good overview. In particular (pun not intended), it – and other studies I found – mentions that rat and mice studies may not be too reliable wrt. human lung issues like fibrosis and cancer, as the results are contradictory wrt. for example coal miners. Itscommentaryby Saber et al. claims otherwise, though.My own opinion is simple: I do not know. Cancer (including leukemia) is becoming more common in humans, but we do not know exactly why. It could be because we no longer die of other diseases and issues; or because we detect cancer more often nowadays; or it could indeed have become more common among otherwise healthy humans. We just do not know yet.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 08:31:48 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 20, 2022, 05:48:47 amMy father didn't smoke, was never exposed to asbestos, his cancer was malignant cancer affecting themesothelium, the layer of tissue which, in case it lines the lungs, is caused by exposure to something that accelerates theoxidative stress.The problem here is: to what? I don't knowNo doubt we don't know, but there are simply correlations between Nanoparticles and increased Oxidative Stress.So, Harms and Benefits for Human Health is what we should better study, consider, and understand because to me, it sounds likeEternit, the fiber cement that helped make the fiber cement material even stronger and better 40 years ago, and it looked great, and the state financed and promoted use for chicken coops and sheds until we found that it causes cancer.NowadaysEternitis banned, illegal and it must be disposed of by specialized companies that cover it with resin and bury it.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 11:06:08 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on March 20, 2022, 08:31:48 amYes, but when it comes to human immune systems, everything comes down to statistics and chance.The natural environment is full of deadly stuff. Carbon nanotubescan occur naturally, and very much like asbestos, are a likely carcinogen (in the exact same way as asbestos is, through its physical structure). So, we absolutely cannot draw any conclusions from a single case, because it literally could be caused by anything. What we DO need to do, is keep watching, and keep OPEN statistics, on health issues related to each working environment.(Asbestosis and smoking have a particularly bad track record, because both were being actively hidden and whitewashed so that certain people could keep their profits. How those people got to keep their money and weren't extrajudicially executed for their crimes against humanity, is a source of endless wonder to me. After all, minor terrorists, people with just a few thousands of deaths on their hands, often do, and people praise their executors. Is it just that profit is so much more acceptable reason to cause the deaths of other people, compared to politics? It is a rough world indeed.)I'm personally familiar with Eternit (well, the local wavy roof sheeting product "varttikatto" based on Minerit), and although the properties of the product do not suffer much by replacing the asbestos fibers with some other fibrous materials, it is important to realize that the asbestos in them is locked in to the matrix, and isn't "shed" (pun not intended). The dangers are in the mining and processing (including demolition) phases. Essentially, unless you cut or break a sheet, Eternit/Minerit/et.al. are safe.However, even concrete dust is quite bad for you: silicosis still kills something like 40,000 humans every year worldwide.In Finland, we do have issues with mold and air quality. On one hand, with the 50°C temperature swings each year (60°C above the arctic circle), you need good insulation to be energy efficient. While you could get that (and exceed even the most stringent energy efficiency demands) with half a meter of concrete on outside walls, that is just too expensive, and instead all kinds of cheaper and faster to manufacture thin layers of plastics and insulation materials are used. (Also, a floating floor of 4" of concrete on top of a cushion of rock wool insulation, would stop floor-conducted noise completely. We just find that "too expensive" to do; instead, people in apartments just suffer from the noise. Even though such noise (due to mental effects) is a well known health risk too.) Added air circulation is too expensive when the temperature difference is that high, although we now have quite darned good heat pumps, so maybe that changes in the future. The sharp temperature gradients lead to condensation issues, which leads to mold, which leads to air quality issues. One of my friends owns a house with a structural air circulation pump to remove the aforementioned moisture, that if it ever breaks for a longer time (think civil unrest and longer term loss of power), the house will become a mold farm in very short order. Funny country, innit?My point? In any single mesothelioma cancer case, the culprit could be tracked to any detail, even to the fibers of the new flooring used. Our environment is deadly, and to manage the risks properly, we do need to look at the whole and at the statistics. Consider lead-based solder: did banning it actually reduce the health risks, or did the indirect effects – especially much rougher fluxes with all sorts of unhealthy chemicals, and possibly shorter device life due to tin whiskers and such – actually increase the health risks? Because of the chemical inertness and insolubility in common solvents (water, acids, alcohols) of lead-based solder, I believe the latter.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 06:44:46 pm
content: Uh, toner is probably not good to inhale on a regular basis while in its powder form (fine plastic particles). But once it's fused on printed paper, I doubt it has any sizeable impact on health. Or if it does, then we should probably ban almost everything we are using and just go back to living in the forest, because yeah, with that reasoning, anything made from plastic could "shed" some particles over time and get inside your body. Whether the quantity would have any impact is hard to figure out.End-users of toner should not be significantly exposed to toner powder unless they mess up with the toner cartridges. Workers in toner factories, though, that's another matter. They should probably wear appropriate masks while working with it.Oh, and I'm not sure what the deal suddenly was with toner and printers. The topic was about notetaking devices instead of using pen and paper. Printing stuff is a different matter, I'm not sure why it popped up.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 09:58:46 pm
content: is there a company or a shop that sells a touch screen kit to convert an old 14" 4:3 LCD into a touchscreen LCD?I am tempted to reuse an old laptop converting it into a tablet. Mechanically I can flip to screen, but there is no touchscreen.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 10:33:38 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on March 20, 2022, 09:58:46 pmI have bought such a capacitive touch panel with its USB controller a couple years ago. Got it from Aliexpress AFAIR. I'll try to find a reference to that.Found it. The original item is not available anymore, but something similar there (I bought a 13.3" one):https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32970730346.html

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2022, 09:41:17 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 20, 2022, 10:33:38 pmYes. The challenge is to find something for a 4:3 screen instead of 16:9I don't like GTK+ because it's always problematic, with something that is perpetually broken e.g. Abiword looks fine with GTK+ 3.20 but is it's unusable with 3.22, then they fixed it and properly updated Abiword, however with GTK+ v3.24.30 there is still something wrongCode:Gtk-CRITICAL gtk_render_background: assertion 'GTK_IS_STYLE_CONTEXT (context)' failedGtk-CRITICAL gtk_render_frame: assertion 'GTK_IS_STYLE_CONTEXT (context)' failedThat's how that damn GTK+Apps usually go ... Apps usually never synchronized with the libraries, therefore always with something broken, annoying or malfunctioning.Anyway, here the plan is something like- flip the LCD of an old laptop- install the touchscreen- hackXournal++- enjoy it

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2022, 09:55:06 am
content: Remarkable2 vs Kindle Oasisthey are not the same, but with both you can read comics and pdf ... yesterday afternoon I went to a kind of party, a rather drunk girl awkwardly poured a fruit salad on the table where they were aRemarkable2and aKindle Oasis.Which of those two do you think survived?the Remarkable2 is super powerful etc, but too bad, it's not water proof(1) !!!the Kindle Oasis is truly water proof, and it can survive a spilled fruit salad!!!Corollary, it is not a good idea to read comics on a Remarkable2 near a swimming pool.Here, the Kindle Oasis wins!(1) don't panic, it's not dead, it just needs to be taken apart, cleaned properly and reassembled. A little annoying, but nothing major.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2022, 09:58:32 am
content: (technically ...it was a kind of "splash-proof" testnot a "water-proof" test"splash-proof" << "water-proof")