Technology and Procedures.  When one outpaces the other - the facepalm moment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 02:53:07 am
content: This topic:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/news-pictures-transferred-by-wire-1930s/sparked a memory. Not of the era mentioned - but of how technology changes have traversed the business world.Specifically, how legacy business procedures are still being followed, when they are clearly useless and often a waste of resources.The experience I'd like to share is about an office procedure where all incoming faxes were required to be copied. With the original fax machines using thermal paper, this was an absolute necessity as the image often faded. With the advent of plain paper fax machines, this was no longer necessary, but still the procedure was dutifully followed.But my story takes this stupidity to another level.Some years ago, I was working at a major financial institution that was governed by the 'Procedures Manual' - a set of 3 large lever arch folders that were the 'Gospel' of the institution. They were implementing a new system where documents from branches were faxed to the head office. The fax images were captured by a fax server, so they never appeared on paper - just electronic signals stored directly onto disk. This enabled staff on workstations to pull up images on one side of a split screen and action the documents on the other. Great idea! Terrific workflow model, backing up is a snap, nothing gets lost and there's no need for paper.However, one day I was walking past a junior sitting at a computer. I noticed they had a large pile of fax pages, which they were adding to. Curious, I asked what they were doing. I have never forgotten their answer...."The Procedures Manual says that all faxes need to be copied, so I've been told to print them all off so I can copy them."I'm sure there are some more examples out there .....What's yours?

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:09:29 am
content: this reminds me of an episode of the TV series "dead like me".grim reapers have to write down the lists of people who they reaped.. and it it suggested they use computers instead of paper.what follows is someone writing names on CDROMs with a quill.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:24:45 am
content: That's ok, a few months ago one of our account reps came in tot he office, printed out his expense report, signed it, scanned it back in to email to himself, then printed it out again to submit....

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:31:47 am
content: sometimes its easier to put together a collage with staples and scan it rather then to use MS paint.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 04:57:01 am
content: I remember a tour around the South Wales Echo newspaper printers back in 1972. They could receive pictures via a modem of sorts, the "modem" happend to be a dusty rack filled with valves.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 06:00:48 am
content: That's what happens when you dont keep your procedures manual up to date. It should have been amended to:* The originals of all FAXes and printouts of all eFAXes must be filed.* All documents on thermal paper that are required to be filed must be photocopied, and the copy attached to the original before filing. See appendix A11 for identifying thermal paper.If you don't keep your procedures manual up to date it will strangle your organisation as it grows like a snake that cant shed its skin.The master copy and copies held by managers that set policy should be annotated with (or interleaved with if 'dead tree') the rationale behind each procedure with a reference to the minutes of the specific meeting at which it was agreed.A reward should be offered for suggestions that lead to any procedures being streamlined or for suggesting a new procedure that is formally adopted.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 07:33:42 am
content: I suspect the problem stems from the fact that the transition from thermal to plain paper faxes would have been a gradual one throughout the organisation.The minions at the coalface would know not to make a fuss about challenging the "Procedures Manual" and if anything did bubble up to the powers that be, then they would probably respond by saying there were still locations with the thermal technology and we won't change the procedures while they are still around. Soon thereafter, it will have been forgotten by the powers that be and the minions won't be bothered trying again.But, yes, revision of standard procedures every now and then is a healthy idea - especially as technology evolves..... a bit like online help files.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 07:56:05 am
content: And that is why you offer a reward for suggestions that improve the procedures manual, and take the time to explain why some suggestions had to be rejected. You want all employees personally motivated to maintain and improve quality.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 09:24:59 am
content: A motorist was driving an old car on a daily basis, his pride and joy, but because of the age of the vehicle he decided to join a national breakdown and recovery organization. After paying his membership fee they sent him a plastic card with a magnetic stripe on the back, this contained all his membership details so that a repairman could scan the card rather than write everything out by hand.Everything went well and after a couple of years the motorist decided to upgrade his breakdown cover to include a cut-price hotel room should the car need to be fixed overnight. The paperwork for this was done at the local offices of the company and after business was concluded they gave him a paper receipt for the extra payment. The paper receipt was stapled to the membership card, right through the plastic strip.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 09:29:18 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on February 12, 2016, 09:24:59 amOh man that is going to be hard to beat.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2016, 11:07:50 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 12, 2016, 09:29:18 amI can try:-In the 1980s,my Employer decided it would be a great idea for all the attended stations to send a short daily Telex message,plus a longer weekly one,to Head Office.To this end,we were supplied with a Telex machine,plus a Tape Perforator/Reader.Typing all the headings & stuff got a bit "old",so we made up short "cheater" tapes that we could insert as required.These made the small desk the machine sat on a bit untidy.We came in one morning,to find the "cheater" tapes neatly pinned up on a board on the wall,& thought"Gee,that looks neat".Sadly,when we tried to use them,the reader went crazy----a few extra perforations will do that!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2016, 09:20:35 pm
content: At a Government organisation which will remain nameless, even up until a few years ago were still using electronic type writers to take down messages from other 'branch locations' because that's what the handbook said. Their justification was that each message was given a sequential number that could later be audited and the response/final outcome looked up and anyone could read the inbound message and any outbound response/action to ensure it was completed.Great system, until someone removes and misplaces the one and only copy of the message.

author: xygor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2016, 10:28:56 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on February 12, 2016, 06:00:48 amAre we dealing with dogs or with people?A job well-done is its own reward.Maybe archaic procedures are used to separate those who follow orders from those who think independently for good or ill. But this also seems dehumanizing.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2016, 11:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: xygor on February 21, 2016, 10:28:56 pmThere are many environments where challenging a long established practice can result in being labelled a troublemaker - plus there is no reason for someone to take the risk. Sometimes a change might result in different workflows that could mean resource reassignment or redundancy .... or that such a possibility is perceived. Others may simply feel that since the business doesn't give a toss about them, then they're quite happy for the business to keep running as it has.QuoteThat may be how procedures are perceived, but their creation comes from a far more pragmatic necessity.There may be many ways to handle an event, but there will be only one way to do it to keep all relevant considerations, such as legal, accounting, safety, reporting, cost, marketing - or any number of attributes - properly actioned. Even if there are several ways, then a consistent approach will ensure consistent results - and if a fault is encountered in the procedure, then there will only need to be one review and one correction ... as well as only one type of problem that may need to be fixed.Creative thinkers will lack the experience of things gone wrong and will be destined to repeat those mistakes if left to their own devices. This can be extremely dangerous, especially if a goof that happened years ago earned a company a severe scowl from the regulators back then would result in a company being shut down today.However, they are exactly the right sort of people to challenge old procedures - as long as they are able to listen and understand why things were originally done as they were.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 09:56:03 pm
content: I think it's been long enough since this one...Some years ago, I worked for a large technology company. Company policy was that component symbols were added to the parts library by a small team of people whose job it was to draw symbols for the entire company.Symbols would be drawn with inputs on the left, and outputs on the right. Because, as we all know, the general flow of information in a well drawn schematic goes that way, so it makes perfect sense to enshrine that general concept with each and every pin... right?Suppose, then, you have a microprocessor, with a crystal oscillator and a bunch of bidirectional I/O pins. Yes, that's right, XIN goes on the left, XOUT on the right, and the I/Os top and bottom.This, apparently, makes for a clearer schematic.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 11:03:34 pm
content: How many times have I heard people say "fix it but don't change anything" to me that equals stupid.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:09:38 pm
content: "Symbols would be drawn with inputs on the left, and outputs on the right. Because, as we all know, the general flow of information in a well drawn schematic goes that way".A fatal mistake because when you encounter a culture which reads from right to left there will be problems. Proctor & Gamble ran a worldwide advertising campaign for their new washing powder showing a pile of dirty clothes on the left, a pack of Persil in the middle, and a pile of clean clothes on the right. Sales failed badly in the Middle East because Arabic is of course read right to left and they thought Persil was something to make clothes dirty.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:46:22 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on February 23, 2016, 07:09:38 pmEEs & Technicians are quite happy to accept normal schematic conventions,although it may differ from cultural norms,& have been for a very long time.I'm sorry,but I think your Persil example is an Urban Legend.Apart from the fact that it paints people in the Middle East as stupid,I've never seen such a "worldwide" advertising campaign in my lifetime,which places it sometime before I started to take notice of such things (early 1950s).In those days,the "Persil" brand name was usually used under licence by local manufacturers,who did their own advertising.