Creating custom wireless system - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 06:21:55 pm
content: What if I want to make wireless product,but dont want to use any of the established standards like WiFi or Bluetooth.What kind of testing,certification will it require? How expensive will it be?To be more specifc,what if I made wireless device that would be like Bluetooth in way that it will be 2 MHz,spead spectrum GFSK modulated with 10 dbm maximum power and use listen first avoidance algorith,but it would be in the 5.8 GHz ISM band instead of 2.4.It would not use Bluetooth trademark nor will it be compatible with any other device.Could such wireless product be legally sold?One side I think due to relatively low power and ISM band location it should be legal,on other hand this would be completly new,non-standard thing,I have no idea how and even if it will be possible to get such device certified so it can be sold.EDIT: Are there some generalized FCC rules that would allow new,non-standard product to be sold if it meets those rules? Like for example:"Bro,if you stay within this band,your channel will take up this much bandwidth,radiate this much power,be used exclusively indoors,and use X Y Z interference minimising techniques,your ok even if your product use non-standardized wireless communication."

author: blackfin76
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 08:15:25 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on August 10, 2018, 06:21:55 pmIn Europe you can go up to 14dBm eirp in the frequency band 5725-5875MHz without any further ristrictions. (seeERC decision 70-03) You will have to do CE verification accoording the Radio Equipment Directive, which is very expensive, probably at least 10k euro or more depending on the number of tests they will have to perform and retesting due to test failure.FCC don't now the limits but testing and certification can only be done by appointed TCB's which will probably be even more expensive than regular CE testing.

author: mrf184
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 04:16:27 am
content: Operate your business from china and only sell online to avoid expensive FCC/CE testing.

author: rfdave#gmail.com
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 04:49:28 pm
content: Bluetooth and Wifi both operate under the ISM band regulationshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_bandwhich regulate transmit power/bandwidth used. As long as you're compatible with those, you can get an FCC ID and sell legally in the US. There's no requirements on modulation/datarates/etc.I'd budget ~ 20 to 40k for certification, plus any additional costs for fixes and re-tests.Dave

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 06:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: mrf184 on August 11, 2018, 04:16:27 amAnd have your product confiscated by customs on import (see e.g. Dave's problems with his uCurrent and multimeters in Germany) whenever someone attempts to import it into a first world country. I do hope this was sarcasm and not a real advice.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 03:09:21 am
content: You might find that parts of the 5.7 Ghz Band are held in reserve and/ or used for Certain types of Radar in the US. If your product interferes, you'll wish you had product approval before your product ever sold.Ask the WISP folks who unintentionally jammed Weather Service Doppler radar at 2.8 Ghz and 5 Ghz FAA TDWR radar using point to point links how fast, and brutal the response was.https://www.commlawblog.com/2013/08/articles/enforcement-activities-fines-forfeitures-etc/fcc-works-its-will-on-the-wisp/You want that FCC approval, 200,000$ worth of pain for one stubborn ISP alone.Steve

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 05:22:32 am
content: Quote from: fonograph on August 10, 2018, 06:21:55 pmRange required ?

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 04:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on August 14, 2018, 03:09:21 amEven that FCC certification wouldn't help you - in the case you have linked they were operating legal (i.e. approved/certified) equipment but causing interference (and ignoring the orders to fix it when told about it). You can have a perfectly legal gear and still cause interference because parts of these ISM bands are shared with other (higher priority) services.The FCC (or CE) certification doesn't protect you against this kind of problem, it only made sure that the fine was "only" $200k - if the ISP was found to be operating uncertified or illegally modified equipment in addition to that interference that would have been a completely different ballgame, methinks.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 04:42:02 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 14, 2018, 05:22:32 am10 meters in extreme case,in practice max 5 meters.