New Yihua soldering station with T12 tips!? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 03:40:21 am
content: Hi!In my search for my first soldering station I first stumbled upon Yihua. After almost pulling the trigger I found the ksger / quicko / quecoo T12 stations, that work better but seem way less reliable than the Yihua 936 / 937D etc. (And most if not all of the T12 stations are not grounded from factory)Continuing my search I stumbled upon the Yihua 948DB+II (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004639048402.html).The price starts at €56. About the price of the older T12 stations and €20 less than the T12-958.The problem is that I can't find anything about it. Does anyone know anything more about it? Since it's a Yihua I may assume that its actually properly grounded? And am I right that overall the build quality and durability of Yihua is way better than ksger and quicko/quecoo?

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 07:09:49 am
content: I would choose something else because I prefer a shorter tip to handle length.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 03:09:23 pm
content: Yeah the handle doesn't look amazing. Maybe it'd be possible to use other T12 handles with it though? I asked them on AliExpress but they don't know if it is possible; I wouldn't see why not though.What would you choose over this for not too much more money?There's the GVM/Oss T245 (€85) and the Aifen A3 (€100), but I can't find anything about those either, I don't know about the brands, and they're on the expensive side of things.The Aixun T3A looks good but also too expensive (€120).Maybe a Oss T12-X (€60)? That looks like a decent option. Found a YouTube video that says the tip is grounded (idk about the chassis but that wouldn't be too hard to fix).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 08:32:27 pm
content: The OSS one looks fine and has good reviews. This Yihua looks like garbage.You ALWAYS check the grounding regardless of what anyone says, and yeah can ground the chassis as well.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 08:43:58 pm
content: Yeah, of course I'll check the ground no matter what. But overall I think all Yihua stations are grounded. I might be wrong though.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 03:19:28 am
content: I found a review of the Oss T12-X on AliExpress that said neither the tip nor the chassis are grounded. So that won't be it.I also decided not to get a JBC style station, as the they all seem to have some issues with it, and original tips are just too expensive, and I don't really need all that power anyway.Continuing my search again I found a Ksger that clearly has the chassis connected to ground. All the other models don't show that in the product pics.The internals also look way cleaner than on the other Ksger and Quicko stations. The only thing that looks off is that one of the heat shrinks is shaped differently than the layout for it that's underneath. Though I doubt this would be an issue; can anyone confirm or deny this? I attached three pictures of the internals.Also the other heat shrink will most likely still be close to the traces of the PCB as the PCB designs looks mostly the same and the heatshrink is in the same place too. I'm not all too worried about that though; I could go and fix it but that would require me having another soldering station to work on this one, which I don't have as this will be my first. I also don't have any experience soldering to PCBs.I found a few videos on YouTube about the other Ksger stations saying the tip is grounded through the PCB; I can't imagine them not doing that on this model as it's newer. (Although of course I'll check to be sure)

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 04:21:03 am
content: Just took a look at those pictures in the message I just posted: it looks like the bottom heatshrink isn't touching the PCB trace after all!?

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 12:06:57 am
content: I'm still torn between the two.- Of the KSGER handles the 907 seems the most robust but it has a very long distance between the tip and where you hold it and you can't quick swap tips (which I will probably never really need to do though).- Of the smaller ones the 9501 seems the most robust, but that still has it's issues, with them melting and breaking.- All the KSGER handles seem to have an issue where if you accidentally insert the tip too hard it will break a MOSFET, causing the tip to glow red hot. Let alone all the other issues people have with these stations. I do not have the experience or equipment to fix stuff like that.In the other hand there's the Yihua.- The handle on it actually looks like a good compromise between the KSGER 9501 and 907 handle. The distance between tip and where you hold it is (at least) 2-3 cm shorter than on the 907, it's thinner than the 907, but more of the tip protrudes out of the handle than on the 9051 and others making it less likely that they will overheat.I don't really need the shortest distance from tip to my hand either, as I probably won't be doing SMD work with it anytime soon.Also it might very well be that it's just better constructed in general.- It is certified by 3C, CE, UL, SGS, and ROHS.- Has less features but I don't really need those.Also, in the video on the product page of the KSGER that has it's case grounded (STC V2.3), the temperature and power jump a lot when almost reaching the set temp. I uploaded the video to YouTube to be able to share it here:https://youtu.be/_pTsJUweil0Is this anything to worry about?

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 05:33:27 am
content: To make the choice even harder: Sequre MSS12 Pro.It has all the features the KSGER T12 has (except for maybe per-tip calibration, but maybe it just doesn't need that?), and it has a CE and ROHS certificate.The handle seems decent as well. Maybe even a tiny bit shorter distance between the tip and your fingers than with the Yihua, and according to learnelectronics on YouTube it doesn't heat up (which I wouldn't except it to since it's protruding out more). It's made of metal but everything should be grounded properly with the CE and ROHS certification (it also has a ground socket on the back).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 10:34:37 pm
content: Quote from: Pizzabroodje on October 01, 2022, 03:19:28 amThe photo shows three connections going to the tip board, presumably the yellow is ground. Yeah the chassis is likely not hard grounded.But are you not able to fix it yourself? Do you have a multimeter and a cheapo iron or one you can borrow?Sequre MSS12 Pro looks OK, similar to the Handskit T12 mini station. But neither of those are grounded, as they don't have mains connection (run off a battery or isolated supply). Actually some power supplies may be earthed, depends on what you have already for a 24V PSU.If you want to ground them its not that hard.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2022, 12:33:33 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 03, 2022, 10:34:37 pmYeah I found some people saying the tip of the Oss T12-X is grounded. One person said it's grounded through a 1M resistor, and the 4mm socket (and presumably also the AC ground) is connected directly to ground. He does say it should be the other way around; I don't know anything about that though. Even the people who say the tip is grounded say the chassis isn't. Also one guy says the switching MOSFET and diode are mounted on the heatsink without thermal paste and there's a gap between the MOSFET, diode, and heatsink.I only have a 100W cheapo iron (that plugs directly into the wall) with a very thick tip. More meant for construction work ig.I can borrow a cheapo iron but I don't know what kind it'll be (used for occasionally repairing e-bike cables in the bike store here). It'll probably do the job though.But I'd prefer something that just has it all properly grounded from the factory. Would save me the hassle of having to borrow an iron and soldering a brand new product.I meant the Sequre MSS12 Pro with built in PSU. Not the mini version:https://a.aliexpress.com/_EwM14dvCan't find much about it though.I'd prefer one with a built in PSU. But say I'd use an external one: that would eliminate the need for case grounding, but would leave the tip ungrounded, correct?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 09:13:05 pm
content: If you prefer something guaranteed safe and tested, then you'll need to spend extra money on a major brand Hakko/JBC/Metcal/etc.Quoteyes

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 11:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 05, 2022, 09:13:05 pmI just want something that will last more than a few uses and won't break down just by looking at it.Yihua seems to stand behind their products, and they're generally well reviewed. Haven't really seen any soldering station by them getting bad reviews.They have many certifications, also including ISO9001.Also they exist for 22 years now.Yet another station that seems pretty well built is the Aifen / Sugon A8. Seems a little slower at heating up than the KSGERs / Quecoos etc., but about the same speed of the Hakko FX-951.The Aifen A3 or A9 (Pro) with C245 tips would also seem very good but the original tips are just too expensive. (A9 is €45-50 more than A8)The company has also been in business for (almost) 20 years, it's certified by CE and ROHS, and very well reviewed.The tip is grounded, and the case is made of plastic so no need to ground that. It also has a better sleep function: same as on the JBC stations where the stand detects the handle, instead of having to shake the handle.The Aifen A8 is €90 though, whereas the Yihua is just €50. Might be worth the extra buck though.

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 08:50:01 pm
content: i too am searching for a budget T12 station that is safe and ready to go out of the box. although the higher end of the budget offerings (Aixun T3A, Aifen/Sugon A9) look like they punch way above their price range, the expense of genuine tips ($30+) is frightening for someone like me who is just starting out. has anyone managed to try these newer stations from KSGER, Yihua and Sequre?It seems like Yihua is the most established of those brands, and I'd be more confident their products wouldn't have the issues that plagued KSGER earlier on. Also, the the 948DB+-II seems like an excellent value (about $40 on aliexpress) for someone whose budget is constrained to under $100 for a station. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be in stock at the moment and I can't find anything on the official yihua website about it.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 09:11:03 pm
content: Quote from: eevnoob on November 06, 2022, 08:50:01 pmI ended up buying the Aifen A8 (ordered it yesterday). It's the same as the A9 but with T12 tips. I can't find anything bad about Aifen / Sugon stations, I like the fact that the stand is built onto the station, and it has a way better sleep function.Heat up time seems to be longer than with the KSGER and the like, but on par with the original Hakko stations (I think because the KSGERs have a 120W PSU while the Aifen and Hakko are 75W).YIHUA removed the 948DB+II listing from there main AliExpress page but added it to a secondary one at the same time. I'm guessing because it was too cheap together with the sale going on atm, but I'm not sure:https://a.aliexpress.com/_EG4QqEV

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 10:16:46 pm
content: oh nice, was the integrated stand a primary factor in choosing the A8 over the T3A? i really like the T3A's versatility in being able to switch between T12 and C245 handles, but the stand included with its T12 handle looks generic. however if i'm going to go "all in" on a T12 station, i feel that I might as well go for one of the low cost options and invest the savings into genuine hakko tips and accessories. thanks for the link to the yahua, strange that it's now through a different seller, although the business information is identical. i also see that sugon makes an A8 station... do you know if there's a difference between them?

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 12:36:53 am
content: Quote from: eevnoob on November 06, 2022, 10:16:46 pmThe primary factor why I chose the A8 over the T3A, is that the T3A seems to have some quality issues. I want something reliable to work with, not something to work on.The T3A comes with a generic stand yes, but they do sell an upgraded stand (the one that comes with the T3B). Some AliExpress sellers sell the T3A in a package with the upgraded stand. It's not cheap though.Apparently they do have a CE, GS, UL, FCC and RoHS certificate, so should be safe to use at least, but durable is another thing.The brand is just 5 years old, whereas Sugon is more than 18 years old.As to the YIHUA, it happens a lot that AliExpress sellers have multiple stores. Why, I don't know, but it's a regular thing on AliExpress. My only assumption is that it's because the 11.11 sales: on the old page it had the discount, but on the new one it doesn't. They also moved it just about 1 or 2 days after the sales had started.When it was on the old page the Yihua was available for just about €45 if you'd buy some extra tips along with it to get the extra 11.11 discount (~€5 off for every ~€30 spent). On the new page it costs ~€60.You could wait for 6 days until the sale is over and see if they move it back, then it would be pretty sure that's the reason.Aifen and Sugon are the exact same. I don't know why they sell it under two different names, maybe they switched it at some point, or they use one for China and one for Global. On the official Sugon site it's listed as an Aifen though:https://www.sugoncn.com/AifenProducts/info.aspx?itemid=65The Aifen A8 is currently about €32 more expensive than the Yihua, but for that price comes with a brasswire tip cleaner, a built in stand, better sleep mode, nicer display, and nicer handle. Quality wise I think they should be about the same.

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 12:55:14 am
content: thanks for the info. i just noticed something else on the yihua, in this image i can only see 4 pins on the handle connector, whereas most of the more recent T12 clones have 5 pins? any idea if a handle feature is being excluded from this model?https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S6f201a6d159b49cc85fdb864c2319711Z.jpg[update: nevermind, in a different thread the answer is that 4 pins is fine, usually the 5th pin is a 2nd ground]

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 01:13:36 am
content: Was just about to quote this post by DavidAlfa:"In a 5 pin handle, the wiring is typically like this:- Power- NTC- Shake- Ground from power supply (Common for ntc, power, shake)- Chassis earth (isolated from power supply ground)I guess a 4-pin connector joins earth and gnd, like this:- Power- NTC- Shake- Ground from power supply + chassis earthQuicko (Not Queeco) uses a 6-pin plug, it's similar to the 5-pin, but with 2 ground wires, no NTC (in-board) and has a second sensor input for a different heater type, I guess for hakko 936 heaters, which use a PTC sensor."For the YIHUA the wiring might be different though (I asked them for the wiring diagram before, but they didn't want to give it). But I don't think it would miss any (important) features because of it.

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 04:09:55 am
content: cool, any idea why the grounding was made different? is there an advantage to having two grounds, one from the power supply and one from earth separate? or is it just an extra layer of protection?

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 05:01:49 am
content: I don't know, but I don't think there's a big difference.Doing a quick google search I found this reddit post, where two pins are bridged together on the PCB. Might be the Earth and Ground:https://www.reddit.com/r/soldering/comments/sizne4/got_my_ksger_t12_mini_earlier_last_month_used_it/

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 10:55:58 pm
content: out of curiosity, did you also look at the Aifen A2 & A3 stations? they claim to support T210/T245/T115 handles, which seems to be a very versatile range... T115 for micro soldering and T245 for macro jobs? the price is close to the A8, and seems to be the obvious choice for someone who wishes to use JBC tips?https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804332568077.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804050181951.htmlthere's also a Yahua 982 station that supports T210 and T245 for under $80!https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804662520342.htmlbut back on the subject of T12 stations... i found another one called the Sudon T16 that appears to have a USB-C port on the back.https://www.sugoncn.com/SugonProducts/info.aspx?itemid=51are you fairly certain Sudon/Aifen stations are electrically safe? i couldn't find any electrical certifications on their product images.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: eevnoob on November 07, 2022, 10:55:58 pmJCB tips are just too expensive. T12 already tips have a large range of shapes and sizes, and are way more affordable. All JCB clone tips seem to have some quality issues while the T12 has some decent clones available.The T16 is also quite a bit more expensive. And the USB port (if it's even that) might be just for firmware updates. It doesn't mention that though, and it doesn't mention DC input either.They have a certificate but for some reason don't print it on the label (which I don't know if it's needed to fully comply with CE; it might not be necessary but just a common practice). I asked the seller and he sent me the Certificate of Conformity, which I checked on the website that provides them. I attached it to this post.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:17:12 pm
content: Aifen A9 Pro is also just a bit more expensive than A3, but a nicer package, available for just €108 with one tip or €118 with three tips after discount:https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvtX3nRDifference between A9 and A9 Pro is a power meter on the display (instead of a flashing dot), and a brass-wire sponge instead of the normal blue sponge.But as said, the tips are too expensive for me, but that's a decision you have to make for yourself.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 11:33:31 pm
content: Clone JBC 115/210/245 tips are down to $10-16 now:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803976467917.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804158794977.htmlThat said, i've not seen conclusive testing if the clone JBC tips are good. Some users here posted bad fit between the heater and pressed on tip. The thermocouple inside IF constructed the same way that JBC does it, should be good.The clone T12 tips are generally OK at only $2-5 each, but not as good as genuine Hakko tips ($15/ea). Higher failure rates and lower thermal performance.Yes, WAY more variety for T12. Its nice to get a handful of tips just to try the various styles out, even some of the weird specialized types.

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 12:55:26 am
content: decisions, decisions... presumably as the demand for clone JBC tips grows along with these more affordable stations, so too will the quality of them improve in the future as competition grows... or at least decrease the price of the genuine ones? if the variety and quality of T12 tips is already good, there must be a good reason people are currently willing to pay several times more for T210/T245/T115 tips? is the soldering performance that much improved? i too can't afford $30 genuine JBC, but if the clone tips are decent and still perform better than genuine T12s, it seems like a better long term investment? of course if you needed a large assortment of tips right at this moment, i can see why T12 would be necessary. thanks for helping me figure it out.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:03:54 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 07, 2022, 11:33:31 pmThe Oss tips are even available for just €5 (free shipment for orders over €10):https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExsMcnbMultiple people having issues with them though. And most good reviews are by people who haven't used them yet or just for a short period (also no temperature testing and such).One person with an A9 said they (or at least one) didn't work on his A9. Another said that it burned the tip after 10 seconds at 390°C with his A9 while the tip that came with it can handle 400°C.Here's a product page of the Relife tips with more reviews:https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExNfOprQuality wise they might be a little bit better but still nowhere near original. Also two people mentioned it doesn't work with the Aifen A9.Another issue is that they only have 3 types available, all in just one size.There's some brand with a bigger selection, but they cost €13-14 and the durability remains a question:https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ewm1BRfhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_Eu0mXkhhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_EJHXdhLhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_EzHaV3rYou can get T12 clones in (pretty much) every type and size available, even a lot of specialty ones (those are more expensive, but original would cost upwards of €100), like these spade tips for example:https://a.aliexpress.com/_EIXZDZLFor myself I ordered a 10-pack and two separate T12 tips from the official Quicko store. The 10-pack costed me €25,60 and the seperate ones €3,67 a pop. After discount it costed just €29,75 for twelve tips.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:15:38 am
content: Quote from: eevnoob on November 08, 2022, 12:55:26 amI think it's mostly the heat-up time. For me the +/- 10 seconds that it takes for a T12 tip to go from room temperature to melting solder is more than good enough. Quality and durability wise, I think the T12 clone tips might very well outperform the JBC clones.In terms of them improving, they might, but they might also not. JBC clones already have been out for multiple years though.Here's a video by Louis Rossmann on the matter:https://youtu.be/kmq769_ed9wAnd here's another one:https://youtu.be/le3MKFfKaII

author: eevnoob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 07:45:59 pm
content: thanks for the info. do you know of a good affordable soldering tip thermometer for calibration? i see that yihua makes one (192), as well as sugon (S-191).https://www.yihuatools.com/Product/Spare_100000140131301.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803502333708.htmlthere also appear to be many clones of the hakko (FG100) available.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 08:34:59 pm
content: I just got a cheapo FG-100 clone for €12:https://a.aliexpress.com/_EJw5PHxThough maybe not the best I doubt the others would do much better, it's 1/3 the price though if the Sugon and YIHUA.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 08:50:36 pm
content: Never bothered to calibrate any of my irons personally.You can also use a normal Type K thermocouple, if you have a spare cheap one that you don't mind trashing. Takes some technique to grab a ball of solder and make good contact with the thermocouple, works better with larger tips.

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 04:05:05 am
content: Sugon sent out my station a few days ago. They (the 'Sugon parts tool Store' on AliExpress at least) seem to test each station and tip before shipping them out, which is reassuring. (They also sent me a picture of the complete package with the shipping label laying on it.)

author: Pizzabroodje
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 01:02:07 am
content: As I guessed: the 948DB+II is back on the 'official' store now.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 04:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 05, 2022, 09:13:05 pmIf the tip is not grounded what problem can it cause ? Can it damage the components being soldered ?

author: E-raticWarrior
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 11:54:06 am
content: Quote from: Pizzabroodje on September 29, 2022, 03:40:21 amI have that Yihua station, i've been using it for over a year now. It had one major issue when i first got it, the shake switch in the wand wasn't working because the strain relief was too tight around it. I had to take the wand apart, which was not easy, to slacken the tabs that hold down the wires. I don't have a means to measure the power draw of the station, but i have a 48 watt soldering station and a 40 watt iron. And whatever joints they can't melt the Yihua melts with relative eaze. During long heavy use the handle gets a bit warm. The wand wiring is real silicone and the stand is very good.I also have the Yihua 959D, which is also good but i had issues with the wand as well, the intake for the blower fan more than half of the opening holes were blocked up so i just cut them out. The other day i burned up fan because i took it out to clean it and when i was done i was testing it and the yellow wire touched the + wire and it stopped working. I'm thinking of getting the Bakon BK701D because it's within my budget and it also has a iron, which i will use for back and THT soldering.

author: Randy222
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 03:56:39 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 09, 2024, 04:25:01 pmESD is the concern. You never want the tip to build static charge."grounded" is perhaps a relative term, but in your context it's the ESD issue.