Are there any good ESR meters at reasonable prices? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 05:33:53 pm
content: I want a "semi-professional" handheld ESR meter that is capable of measuring ESR @100 KHz and also @100/120 Hz, and to measure ESR down to 1 mohm.I have searched, and there is not much out there. There are mostly "toy" ESR meters on the market.The best one I could find is this one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/MESR-100-AutoRanging-In-Circuit-ESR-Capacitor-Meter-Tester-Up-to-0-001-to-100R-/171154557016?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d99b4858And it is not that cheap. 65$ * 1,2 *1,2 = 93,6$. I don't know if it is any good. It is capable of measuring down to 1 mohm, which is what I want, but it only measures @ 100 KHz.Then, there are LRC meters, which have ESR capabilities. Like this one:http://www.micom-tm.com/index.php/sr/proizvodi-f/multimetri/testeri-komponenti/tecpel-lcr-612-detailBut it can measure only down to 10 mohms (most of toy ESR meters do the same). It says "test frequency 120Hz/1kHz" but I think that is is just for capacitance. And it costs half my salary.I have heard that those so called "Blue ESR" and "Bob Parker" metars are good, but on the serbian forums they say that they are aslo "toy category".What else is out there?P.S. In a few weeks, there is a technology fair in Belgrade, so I will see if there is something offered there, so I will not buy anything untill then.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 06:03:06 pm
content: http://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000.htmCheck if the specs are suitable. It's mentioned in many threads. They are probably cheapest on Ebay, do make sure you get the accessories. A hundred dollars or so for a proper meter is cheap, they used to be far more expensive a few years back.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 06:17:25 pm
content: Thanks, but unfortunately, it only measures ESR down to 100 mohms.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 06:33:32 pm
content: The DE5000 does measure esr with single mili Ohm resolution by using Rs mode instead of esr.My video here of its pretty impressive performance.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 06:45:55 pm
content: AT826, I have been eyeing for a long time, still can't find a good reason to fulfill this itch.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 06:48:20 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on April 17, 2015, 06:33:32 pmHmm, is that DC resistance? Or if it is AC, at what frequencies can it measure? I can choose 100/120 Hz, 1 KHz, 10 KHz or 100 KHz?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 07:21:56 pm
content: It is AC resistance and you can use any of the frequencies.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 07:38:47 pm
content: Thanks, but I am not sure that it is the actual ESR that is measured that way.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 07:59:52 pm
content: it is the esr you're measuring.http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-deree5000-cl.htmland honestly, you don't need the milliohom to measure the esr of a capacitorI can check an esr with a "toy" as you said that has a 10 leds bargraphs on it and tells you a capacitor is good or bad 99% of the time it's okwhat you need is a LCR meter and the deree5000 is the best bang for buck you can get these days.to get a better accuracy you need devices that cost 10x more.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 11:41:38 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on April 17, 2015, 07:38:47 pmThis is one of the best deals you can find. Bascially, nearly all the under $500 meters worth a damn are all using the same Cyrustek IC's (including all of the expensive Agilent/keysight handhelds). This one is a great deal at around the $100 price point

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 03:58:22 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on April 17, 2015, 11:41:38 pmSure about that?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 04:20:04 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 18, 2015, 03:58:22 amSorry I left out the word handheld.  Benchtop is a whole different category. For handheld, it seems like anything recent that is worthwhile uses the cyrustek chips.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 05:06:12 am
content: Don't most of us need SMD capability too?Seriously the Smart Tweezers I have always been able to identify failing caps for me, ESR & uFhttp://www.advancedevices.com/Multiple test frequencies etc etc.You'd be amazed how much you'll use them.Sure it hurt at the time I bought mine,(~US$300) but I'd replace them in an instant.5 times faster than a DMM for PCB faulty component testing

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 06:08:18 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on April 17, 2015, 07:59:52 pmWhat about this one, then?http://www.micom-tm.com/index.php/sr/proizvodi-f/multimetri/testeri-komponenti/tecpel-lcr-612-detailOn serbian forum, they told me it is a re-bagded Extech:I will watch this review later, when I have time.They cost around the same, and I can buy it localy.But I realy don't understand why do they claim ESR measurements only down to 0,1 ohm, if it is completely the same if I measure with a ressistance mode, which can go down to 1 mohm (although, it only claims 1 mohm resolution). Then why do they even have ESR mode, if R mode works exacly the same? Why don't they advertise that it can measure ESR down to 1 mohm? Marketing departement would surely write that. They would not write a lower specs, that is for sure. That is why I am sceptical abouth this.P.S. I want 1 mohm ESR capability, so I can precisely measure ultra low ESR caps.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 07:01:54 am
content: your meter does a test at 120Hz and 1KHzthe deree5000 does at 10KHz and 100KHz also.as the esr is defined in datasheets mainly at 120Hz, it's often used at 100KHz in SMPSso measuring very low esr on caps I don't know if you want to do it at 120Hz or 100KHzbut the results will be different for sure.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 07:06:31 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 18, 2015, 05:06:12 amdoes not test at 100KHzcosts 3x the price of deree5000...but nice handheld device.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 08:25:24 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on April 18, 2015, 07:01:54 amI mean... Of course that I will measure ultra low ESR caps @100 KHz, and mains caps @100/120 Hz. That is why I want that capability.Yes, Der EE DE-5000 is better.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 09:26:50 am
content: Extech 380193 / Tecpel LCR 612:DER EE DE-5000:Photographs says it all.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 02:10:35 pm
content: Yes it does! Unfortunately more components does not mean more performance. The glaring problem is that Extech does not have 4 wire connections which are essential below a few ohms and the DE5000 has true 4 wire Kelvin connections to both the split banana jacks and the component tester slots. The 4 wire is maintained on the tweezers attachment and the alligator clip attachments (alligator clips do need to be replaced with real kelvin clips).If you search the forum for all DE5000 threads you will see that many have checked its performance against higher end instruments and found that it is extremely good.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 03:18:09 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on April 18, 2015, 09:26:50 amActually they don't, as with anything the devil is in the details. I can understand looking at that and thinking the Der EE is a lesser meter due to the lower part count but the reality is different. Much like modern smartphones have many fewer components, compared to old smartphones, due to integration of most features on the SoC; the Der EE has fewer components because most of it is integrated into the second IC. Basically you are comparing a meter using older less integrated technology, with a meter using more integrated modern technology, of course there will be differences in part count. This doesn't make the higher part count meter better.You seem to be dead set against the DE-5000 for some reason. If that's the case, that's fine just say you won't consider it. If you are trying to cover all your bases then keep in mind the following. IET Labs, a leader in precision measurement and meterology equipment, rebrands the Der EE as their own DE-5000 and sells it at a considerable markup. Their DE-6000 is also the Der EE DE-5000, just with a very slightly tighter calibration in three specific points (kinda laughable that it's a separate model number).At the end of the day, get what makes you happy. The Der EE is one of the best values out there right now, hands down. It's not the only meter out there though, you can find others.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2015, 04:52:05 pm
content: OK, thanks.It's just... I don't actually need it (I can survive without it), but I just want it. It would cost (103$ + 10$) * 1,2 * 1,2 = 162,5$. And I earn only 340$ a month.I mean, I paid around 50$ (few years ago, so around 35$ in today's money, I believe) for a new multimeter (Extech EX330), so I found this a bit overpriced, because I was looking for something more in that price range.So considering all that... It is not an easy decision.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 01:11:56 am
content: Quote from: Srbel on April 18, 2015, 04:52:05 pmThanks for providing the additional details, I now fully understand your hesitancy. 50% of your monthly pay is a HUGE expense, no matter HOW you slice it. Unfortunately for you, I don't think that the performance you desire exists at the price point you want at this time. Only recently did the higher performance LCR's come down to this price point. Most of this is due to the aforementioned Cyrustek chipsets making the design and manfuacture much easier and more relaible, giving high quality measurements with much less work. Going back to your images, board design costs money; which board do you think costs more to design and build. Looking around, these meters are by far the cheapest ones with 100kHz ability, let alone milliohm Rs (which stands for series resistance).Depending on the prices on ebay (which tend to fluctuate quite a bit), you might be able to get by with buying only the meter now and making your own test adapters later. The adapters connect via the blade slots, meaning you can use double sided copper clad board to bring the connections out and build your own. At this time, that isn't very price conscious (you would pay a lot more in the long run than buying a meter with TL21 and TL22) but it might change in the future.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 07:30:07 am
content: Than you.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 09:19:10 am
content: How about this?Atlas ESR Plus (ESR70)Atlas ESR (ESR60)http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_instruments.html

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 09:34:42 am
content: I have seen that one. Specs are not really what I want. And on the Serbian forum they told me that it is way too overpriced, and it is not good at all.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 02:21:58 pm
content: The DER DE-5000 is a real LCR with capabilities that would not expect to find a $100 LCR. It can test at 100, 120, 1k, 10k, or 100kHz, it measures ESR (AC resistance), d, Q, phase angle, DC resistance. It has 4-wire Kelvin connections. It does all these things accurately, and it does it for $100 or less. Unfortunately, the prices have come up a little since got mine a few months ago, but it is still a bargain. IET sells theidentical instrument labeled as DE-6000for over $350.This has been discussed on this forum before. There is no debate left until something else enters the market; The best LCR for $100 is the DER DE-5000. It is not the best LCR on the market, but it is without question the best at the $100 price point.If you can't spend this much, then the $20+ "transistor checker" devices all over ebay are actually very good. The biggest issue is that you don't get the ability to specify the measurement frequency. Plus, you can't necessarily trust the calibration, so it would be helpful to have a known good LCR to do a few comparisons against to earn some trust in the readings.

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 07:10:10 pm
content: As I can seeDER EE DE-5000 seems to be good.Where can I buy it ( at a good price) with all necessary accessories?Thanks

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 08:15:50 pm
content: EBayI bought from this seller, as did many others on this board:http://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-DE-5000-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-with-TL-21-TL-22-New-Japan-/161104294237?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258290715d

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 08:13:45 pm
content: And how about Uni-T UT612 LCR meter ? Can anyone compare with DE-5000?Thanks

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 11:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: Jane on April 28, 2015, 08:13:45 pmThe Uni-T does not have full Kelvin connection capability which is something that the rest have. The kelvin lines from the IC are terminated at the jack, not at or near the tip. This will result in reduced performance and accuracy.

author: The Doktor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 02:23:39 am
content: Does anybody know if the DE-5000 has input protection? I'm considering buying 1, but am worried about destroying it *when* I forget to discharge a cap and throw 450V across it's inputs.Ed

author: commongrounder
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 02:39:51 am
content: The DE-5000 does not have input protection. I have plastered labels all over mine reminding me to discharge capacitors before testing. Despite that, I am quite happy with all the features and accuracy of this unit. I purchased all of the accessories and made a set of true kelvin clip leads.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 03:13:50 am
content: Quote from: The Doktor on May 01, 2015, 02:23:39 amIf the main purpose is for ESR, and base on the question, I would go for a peak ESR. I have burnt a few of my ESR and capacitance meter. Some repariable and some not. Yes, I have pasted yellow warning all over. But when the mind is too engrossed with troubleshooting, the warning label is easily not visible on a familiar tool

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 06:49:49 am
content: the (deree) de5000 has no input protection, it's a precision instrument, you have to discharge capacitors before.if you want a toolbox robust esr meter, then just buy one (like the Peak) or build one (plenty of schematics on my web repository below)and for "pure" esr meter you don't need a milliohm precision to determine a bad or good capacitor.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 08:08:35 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on May 01, 2015, 06:49:49 am+1Along with experience and practice.I can't speak highly enough of my Smart Tweezers.See reply #12

author: The Doktor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 08:52:43 pm
content: Well, I haven't fried the input on my HP spectrum analyzer, which I have had for a bout 20 years. Granted, it is a different class of instrument with a different usage pattern, but I think it means I can adapt to using an unprotected meter if need be.So, I'm ready to buy, and I'm checking prices on eBay and Amazon. In one of the reviews on Amazon, I come to this statement "Beware of units sold by vendors other than IET or Amazon, as a similar unit exists which is an older instrument branded "Der EE." This is not the same instrument as the IET-branded one. IET Labs worked with an OEM to created their version, using their design input and internal software. I would suspect that the older unit might not meet the specifications and repeatability of the IET unit.".Is there any truth to this man's statement, or is he just talking out his ass? His review seemed fairly knowledgeable, but then again, there are some fools who can sorta pass. As the IET branded units on Amazon do cost more money, I would like to know if there is truly any difference before I make my purchase.Thank youEd

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 09:10:07 pm
content: All indications and experiences of those who have purchased the DER-EE DE 5000 is tat it is exactly the same design, construction and quality as the IET. There is a new model IET with the number 6000 instead of 5000. The 6000 has higher specs but appears to e the same design and construction. Perhaps they are using higher spec'd parts inside but there is no evidence that it is actually anything different than the 5000 except for the specs.I have yet to see or hear one complaint about the DER-EE DE5000 and so there doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to not buy it and buy the IET instead which costs much more money.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 10:56:20 pm
content: Quote from: The Doktor on May 01, 2015, 08:52:43 pmYou might want to look athttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/de-5000-vs-de-6000-lcr-showdown/complete with teardown photos and discussion.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 06:49:17 am
content: the IET DE6000 can be delivered with a calibration certificatethe deree DE5000 cannot.this explains the quite 3x price difference.if you need a precise calibrated instrument, get the IETif it is a hobby use, or a professionnal use that does not need a calibration, get the DerEE.I would like to see someone that bought the two devices, and make a side-by-side precision comparaison by the way...

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2015, 10:55:48 pm
content: How about 1/2 of reasonable price?The consensus is DE-5000 for about $120 so for $55 plus shipping- can this do what it says? I just want to test some caps in an old scope.[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/MESR-100-AutoRanging-In-Circuit-ESR-Capacitor-Meter-Tester-Up-to-0-001-to-100R-/171154557016?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d99b4858]http://www.ebay.com/itm/MESR-100-AutoRanging-In-Circuit-ESR-Capacitor-Meter-Tester-Up-to-0-001-to-100R-/171154557016?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d99b4858Cheaper one:[url=http://www.amazon.com/Floureon-M6013-Digital-Capacitor-Capacitance/dp/B00IL31CLE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1431298835&sr=8-7&keywords=Capacitor+Meter]http://www.amazon.com/Floureon-M6013-Digital-Capacitor-Capacitance/dp/B00IL31CLE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1431298835&sr=8-7&keywords=Capacitor+MeterAnd can this really test "in-circuit"? Or does this mean one lead has to be de-soldered?

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 11:49:52 am
content: Does PeakTech 2165, aka Extech 380193 measure ESR? It only mentions Q and D, but not ESR. And if yes, what is the lowest value it can measure?http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/lcr-messgeraet/produkt/p-2165.htmlhttp://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=56&prodid=349

author: MattFL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 02:46:12 pm
content: I just went through this research myself, and I found this article to be a worthwhile read:http://www.condoraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/Reviews/How-to-Choose-an-ESR-meter.pdfI'm only a hobbyist, but based on the writeup above the EVB meter seemed to fit my needs best so I bought one from this guy, who shipped it right away:http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htmA writeup on this meter:http://www.capacitorlab.com/esr-meter/The different colors mean different features so read carefully.I hope this helps and good luck!

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 04:22:53 pm
content: Thanks, I will check it out.So, PeakTech 2165 or DER EE DE-5000. Which one is better?I want good ESR measuring capability (DE-5000), but I can buy PeakTech localy. :/

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 04:44:02 pm
content: PeakTech 2165 is 120Hz-1KHzDER EE DE-5000 is 100Hz-120Hz-1KHz-10KHz-100KHzso DER EE DE-5000 is better... (and price should be lower too)your choice !

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 04:51:16 pm
content: Believe me, if I could buy it locally, I would already owned it. I am just afraid that it will arrive damaged or faulty, and that I will have to pay shipping back (it is much more expensive to ship from Serbia, than it is to ship to Serbia). Or warranty. I basically don't have it, since it is not worth shipping it back to Japan. I will have to risk it. :-/

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 04:52:55 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on April 18, 2015, 09:26:50 amCan you explain what you mean? It can go both ways.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 05:22:43 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on September 24, 2015, 04:22:53 pmHave you thought about batteries? Seems the DER uses 9v and the Peak maybe a 12v.Do you find the PDF useful ?

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 24, 2015, 04:52:55 pmI just thought it looks cheap. The bare minimum components used to save cost.Later I have found out that those are dedicated LCR chips (everything needed is integrated). Kryotech, or something like that.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:08:57 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 24, 2015, 05:22:43 pmHaven't thought about batteries, no.PDF only shows review of those more lower end ESR meters, but I decided to buy LCR meter with ESR capability.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:10:20 pm
content: What do you think about this one? I can buy it locally.http://www.gme.cz/multifunkcni-rlc-metr-cem-dt-9935-p722-436

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 09:07:54 am
content: DoDER EE DE-5000andCEM DT-9935both measure in-circuit? And, which one of this 2 is better?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 12:16:13 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on September 25, 2015, 09:07:54 amthey are basically the same inside. Just can't remember if the CEM has a real kelvin clip with 4 wires (but the deree has it)also they both measure in circuit, but both have no real input protection as they are a precision measuring instrumentthink of them as a precise LCR meter, and build yourself a protected robust in-circuit esr meter for the rest...( look at my esr repository below)

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 01:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on September 25, 2015, 12:16:13 pmThe CEM is not in any way a 4-wire measurement device. It appears to be 2-wires plus guard and is that way from the circuit board on. There is no signs of 4-wire at any point on the board.A teardown by Hydrawerkhttps://plus.google.com/photos/106264218831814439783/albums/6109399561478749553You can see that the guard terminals simply connect to the ground fill. Quite simply, they gave it four inputs to make it look like a 4-wire device but it actually isn't.That alone justifies the Der EE over the CEM, not to mention the useful optional parts for the Der EE. The tweezers (TL-22) and alligator clips (TL-21) are very useful, the guard lead(TL-23) for me is completely useless.Neither has input protection of any sort, they are precision instruments designed for engineers. If you know that you are careful then it isn't a big deal. If you don't think you can be careful enough, then you might want to take kripton's advice and use one of the one's he mentions. They are lower performance meters than the DE-5000 but they are more robust, maybe a bit more ideal for the repair bench than the lab.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:13:06 pm
content: Thank you. DE-5000 it is, then. I hope I don't get ripped off by customs office, or receive a faulty unit. Or both.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 03:03:03 pm
content: Bought it.http://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-DE-5000-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-with-TL-21-TL-22-New-/262066338269?hash=item3d045ef9dd

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 03:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on September 29, 2015, 03:03:03 pmExcellent, price seems pretty good too. About $10 lower than the recent average price for that accessory combo. Good luck and I hope it arrives in good shape!

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 03:26:30 pm
content: Thank you.

author: 6581
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 05:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on September 25, 2015, 05:13:06 pmDouble whammy. (Mitch Hedberg, RIP)