Watch Timing Machine - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 02:36:55 am
content: Well I had no idea ...Was just surfing Ebay for something new and found this thing. I had no idea they made such a thing. I'm thinking - gosh there must be another good use for that thing, I mean I have no watches that it would be able to calibrate. Doesn't it listen to the "tick - tick - tick"? And with the watch plastered to the holder like that, how would you adjust it?Kinda expensive too.Thoughts?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multifunction-Timegrapher-NO-1000-Watch-Timing-Machine-Calibration-Tools-/191543026447?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c98daa30f

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 05:14:47 am
content: Yes, it picks up the ticking of the balance wheel, and you adjust it by seeing the error, then opening the back and adjusting the spring control, then put it back and measure again, until it shows the error is under 1 second a week or so. An iterative process, but it works well. Others use a light source and a photocell to detect the movement of the balance wheel or the escapement inside the watch to get the information.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 05:22:06 am
content: I have in the past use a piezo buzzer as a vibration pickup for my frequency counter, have it taped to the side metal while i adjust at the back of automotive mechanical clocks, means you can trim one in in 40 seconds as opposed to 2 days,where as most of these ones tend to be based on high gain microphones, you can still get away with a piezo if you have a lot of gain,

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 05:41:55 am
content: Isn't it a little ironic to adjust mechanical watches using a machine based on a quartz oscillator?

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:40:16 am
content: 1 second a week would be extremely good for a mechanical watch, the "high end" COSC certified ones are only -4/+6 seconds per day (measured over 5 positions and 3 different temperatures).I can regulate my low end Seiko automatic by placing it face up or face down. Face up it runs a little slow, face down it speeds up... This is quite typical behavior of mechanical watches.Quote from: amyk on March 29, 2015, 05:41:55 amIf you want a practical and accurate watch, get a 10$ Casio. It will be orders of magnitude better than even the most expensive swiss mechanical movements assembled by nude virgins under moonlight. Mechanical watches are terrible timekeepers.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:51:52 am
content: Time to replace the little 377 coin cell in my cheap $5 watch. It stopped 15 seconds to midnight........

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 10:38:46 am
content: In the 70's I worked for a watchmaker,he used a similar device that picked up the ticking of the watch but as the display was a printed paper roll to save paper he would just turn on the speaker of the device and listen to the ticks, he would then adjust the watch accordingly, within a minute or so he had the watch adjusted to a second or two a week. And he did not have a beard or a tongue sticking out while making the adjustments, a poke with the tweezers and it was done.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 11:00:50 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 29, 2015, 02:36:55 am£184 seems very reasonable for a specialist piece of kit like this.I wouldn't be surprised if they were $1k+ before the Chinese got into the game

author: sdg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 01:40:44 pm
content: The price is on par with other watchmaker's tools :http://www.watchtool.co.uk/bergeon-6190-anti-magnetic-screwdrivers-slip-rotating-base-p-6413.html

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 03:09:58 pm
content: Things like this have been around for a while. Here's a nice little gem of a show I like a lotyou can see one in action.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 03:13:40 pm
content: Good watch makers tools are expensive, those so called cheap watchmakers screwdrivers found on e bay and in the pound/Dollar shops don't work out cheap the bend and break or the handles tun on the blades or they slip and damage the watch as in electronics good equipment costs but pays for itself in the end.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 03:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on March 29, 2015, 09:40:16 am5 seconds a day is around 58ppm, while a typical quartz watch is in the single-digit ppm range, so it's around an order of magnitude better at most.Seehttp://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/2276.pdfQuote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 29, 2015, 11:00:50 amThis one actually appears to be a clone of another Chinese one, the "TYMC MTG-1000", which costs roughly twice as much....and a PC containing a suitable microphone will work, using this software:http://tokeiyade.michikusa.jp/download.html

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 04:26:28 pm
content: Less people wear watches now than they used to as they've been replaced by phones.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 05:06:45 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on March 29, 2015, 03:49:02 pmMy watch has has a very common 7s26 movement, it's specified at -20/+40 seconds per day. That's about 300ppm.There's also an Android app to perform these measurements,WildSpectra. It depends a bit on the watch and the microphone in your device if it works though, my watch is too quiet.Quote from: Hero999 on March 29, 2015, 04:26:28 pmPretty much only watch enthusiasts wear mechanical watches, I doubt they will switch to a smartphone. The vast majority wears (wore?) a quartz watch, this machine is useless for those watches anyway.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:09:51 pm
content: QuoteI bet you that you can do it with a smart phone app: it has a microphone, with adjustable gain (20-30db typically) and a graphics display + canned user interface.Otherwise, it is not that hard to make your own.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on March 29, 2015, 09:09:51 pmSo you've made one then?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:37:01 pm
content: QuoteIf I make one, what will you do in return?

author: icon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 11:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 29, 2015, 02:36:55 amHere's a look at the innards of a similar one, plus some info on how they work.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/weishi-mtg-3000-%27multi-function-timegrapher%27/HTHJohn

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 11:16:04 pm
content: Quote from: icon on March 29, 2015, 11:02:12 pmThanks really nice explanation. Yea they misspelled the description. I bet the manual they include is equally as bad.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 11:29:31 pm
content: From a modern mcu perspective, those things are quite simple in term of basic functionality: you use a microphone to listen to the beats. With that, you time a known pulse train. Count until a certain number of beats have passed and you read your timer counter. Done.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 11:40:22 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on March 29, 2015, 09:37:01 pmSo I take it that's a "No" then!

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 07:20:16 am
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on March 29, 2015, 05:06:45 pmThe one in the Secret Life of Machines video linked earlier works with a quartz digital watch.

author: sdg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 08:21:54 am
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on March 29, 2015, 05:06:45 pmReally ?This Seiko Caliber 7545A says otherwise.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 10:46:00 am
content: Quote from: sdg on March 30, 2015, 08:21:54 amNo point in adjusting a quartz with another quartz, you'll need something significantly better. Your measurement instrument must be at least an order of magnitude better than the device under test. Also the device posted measures amplitude and beat error of the balance wheel, both are useless for quartz.

author: sdg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 11:06:24 am
content: My misunderstanding : I thought you were saying that quartz watches cannot be adjusted. The "not with this device" got lost in the translation...

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 11:14:46 am
content: QuotePlenty of cases where a quartz oscillator is calibrated via another quartz oscillator.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 11:33:51 am
content: Quartz can be pretty precise, IIRC my Swatch irony diaphane quartz watch was out for about 1-2 seconds in a month. Don't use it for a few years now, would need to remove it from the hand few time a day because of my job.