Siglent SDS1104X-E or Rigol DHO814 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bang
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 12:35:57 pm
content: I'm in need of an oscilloscope and I have been looking at the SDS1104X-E and the DHO814. I've only used high-end oscilloscopes at my university, so my knownledge of what the main bottleneck are on a low-end oscilloscope is non existing. I observed that the SDS1104X-E have 2 ADC's for all 4 channels, where the DHO814 only have 1 ADC for all 4 channels, with only 1MPTS per channel when using all 4CH, thus the SDS1104X-E in my eyes already seems way better by my current knownledge of oscilloscope. However the DHO814 have some nice features like the touch screen and HDMI, but the 100MHz 4CH version is 625EU whereby the 100MHz SDS1104X-E is only 510EU.Thus my questions are:Will the 30MHz extra BW of the DHO814 (100MHz, 625EU) compared to the DHO804 (70MHz, 500EU) make any sense?Is SDS1104X-E (100MHz, 510EU) with 2 ADCs better than the DHO814 (100MHz, 625EU) with only 1 ADC?What would you pick, and why?The oscilloscope will be used for general purposes (Power Circuits, Microcontrollers) and maybe some commercial products in the future, so I don't really have any requirements, beside I want the best bang for the bucks of a low-end/mid-end oscilloscope.

author: mouz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 04:16:21 pm
content: Will the 30MHz extra BW of the DHO814 (100MHz, 625EU) compared to the DHO804 (70MHz, 500EU) make any sense?Yes if you want to ride out your warranty period. No, if you are prepared to hack, (and possibly loose warranty)What would you pick, and why?Personally I lean towards the Rigol DHO for the VESA mount and portability (USB power supply)

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 05:44:22 pm
content: The VESA mount is a bit tricky, because if you choose the wrong one, you can really cut off the air path.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 08:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: bang on December 18, 2023, 12:35:57 pmThe 1Mpts is easily hackable to 10Mpts per channel. The number of ADCs makes very little difference.Quote from: bang on December 18, 2023, 12:35:57 pmYou don't need the DHO814. The DHO804 can easily be unlocked to 200Mhz real measured bandwidth.(or even higher but I wouldn't recommend it because the 1.25GHz sample rate isn't really enough for the higher bandwidths)Quote from: bang on December 18, 2023, 12:35:57 pmNo, because both models are identical inside. Theonlydifference is a file on the disk with either "DHO804" or "DHO814" in it.(...and all you need is an Ethernet cable to edit that file).Quote from: bang on December 18, 2023, 12:35:57 pmEasy choice: DHO804, because of touch screen, etc.It's just much more modern.(and a lot smaller and cuter, too...)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 08:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: mouz on December 18, 2023, 04:16:21 pmWhy would it lose warranty?You don't have to open the case and the hack is completely reversible.If the 'scope is dead they'll never know you hacked it.If it isn't dead you can change it back to a DHO804 before you send it in.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 09:04:00 pm
content: Quote from: bang on December 18, 2023, 12:35:57 pmHi and welcome to the forum.I've had both scopes here for several weeks and have been able to compare them extensively, more for normal everyday measurements.Without completely anticipating my conclusion for my own thread, I would recommendcurrentlythe DHO804.There should also be a few polishings for certain functions, but the scope has only been on the market for a few months, so it could work.The display has a higher resolution and the highlight is clearly the user interface.It is also possible to create different windows in which other signal shapes can be displayed.And it is quite fast in terms of "basic speed".Plus native 12-bit resolution and low noise.The fact that it looks "cute" is not a plus point for me, but it does save a lot of space.It is simply more modern than the somewhat older siglent.The disadvantages are more to be found in the features (software), e.g. there is no Bode plot and the FFT function is limited to the bare essentials.If this is not a problem for you, I would go for the DHO.Statusnow.The cards will be shuffled differently if the SDS800X HD is actually launched on the market in 2,3 months.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 09:38:23 pm
content: Odd comparison, very soon to be last gen 8 bit scope (albeit one of the best on the low end) vs new gen 12 bit scope.If you can wait and if it actually drops in a few months at pricing competitive with the Rigol, the Siglent SDS800X HD (direct competitor to the DHO800 series) may be the even better option.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 10:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on December 18, 2023, 09:38:23 pmThis depends on whether Siglent also improves the user interface. IIRC a while ago Martin posted a video showing both Rigol and Siglent 1100-something- and the Siglent scope was much more tedious to setup.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 10:14:10 pm
content: If it gets the same user interface as the other touchscreen models before, then it's not bad.However, it would be better for the screen size if it went more in the direction of the rigol UI.There you have almost everything relevant at a glance.It will be better in terms of features and technical data, it just depends on the price that siglent wants for it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 05:06:38 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 18, 2023, 09:04:00 pmI forgot to mention the screen. It's really, REALLY readable compared to last-gen 'scopes. The font rendering, etc., isthatgood.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 05:38:13 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 18, 2023, 10:14:10 pmJust some notes.SDS800X HD have same UI as SDS1000X HD, touch and mouse. Exception is display physical dimensions.(also much same as in SDS2000X HD)And example very superior BodePlot.4 math channels with formula editor. Math channels can cascade.(Filter, +, -, x, ÷, ∫dt, d/dt, √, Identity, Negation, |x|, Sign, ex, 10x, ln, lg,Interpolation, Max hold, Min hold, ERES, Average, Formula Editor2M FFT)Always in normal mode background working acquisition history buffer.Also (optional) comprehensive Power Analysis.200MHz BW SDS824X HD2GSa/s for 1 channel // 100M memory1GSa/s for 2 channels // 2 x 50M500MSa/s for 3 and 4 channel // 3 or 4 x 25MFull resolution 500uV/div (Rigol have 1mV/div full resolution)Always available true dots mode. Displayed interpolation is post processed so also after stop it can switch for display true sample dots or change displayed interpolation for x or Sinc (including also history buffer independent if it is captured in normal mode or fast sequence mode.).Naturally also math channels can cascade.Analog front end channels offset ranges:Siglent SDS800X HD all models±1.6 V: 500 μV/div ~ 5 mV/div (including also <500 μV/div vertical zoom)±4 V: 5.1 mV/div - 10 mV/div±8 V: 10.2 mV/div - 100 mV/div±80 V: 102 mV/div - 1V/div±400 V: 1.02 V/div - 10 V/divRigol DHO814±0.5 V: <500 μV/div±1 V: ≥500 μV/div - 65 mV/div±8 V: >65 mV/div - 270 mV/div±20 V: >270 mV/div - 2.75 V/div±100 V: >2.75 V/div - 10 V/div

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 05:40:13 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 19, 2023, 05:06:38 amSome appreciate beautiful pictures, others appreciate measurements quality.

author: mouz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 02:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 18, 2023, 08:08:08 pmAs a manufacturer you want to investigate why it is dead and returned for warranty. So you can catch issues early on. When they find a corrupted SD card / vendor.bin file, there is a (albeit small) chance they will deny your warranty claim as overwriting vendor.bin file(s) is outside the normal intended use for the scope, just as deep sea diving with it, is.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 03:32:12 pm
content: Quote from: mouz on December 19, 2023, 02:16:01 pmIf that happens at all (which isveryunlikely) then it will be a way down the chain, a long after it was replaced by customer support. Customer support doesn't have time to forensically analyze every case before responding)That's if they even care or bother to check that when it's the power section that failed.nb. You can also hack it by generating license keys. That's not a unintended use.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 04:03:04 pm
content: Quote from: mouz on December 19, 2023, 02:16:01 pmThere are a lot of "ifs" here, but it's not so clear cut.Such as with "warranty void" stickers, the manufacturer cannot outright deny a warranty claim, not legally at least.If you have modified the software to make the hardware work as it was intended, (the usual meaning of hacking here), it is up to them to prove the link between the hack and the failure, if it is indeed hardware related.A valid license key generated outside of the regular supply chain cannot make a DHO800 work outside of its design boundaries. Of course, if they denied the claim, it would be a really expensive endeavor to hire a lawyer and make them honor the warranty. It would give them very bad press in any case.This is true in the EU, and for private customers, as consumer protection laws don't allow "warranty contracts" to undermine legal rights granted by consumer laws, and they can only improve on them. So, with the third year's warranty, it could still pose a problem.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 04:39:47 pm
content: Remember that it only takesoneEEVBLOG member to say "they denied the warranty" to lose a lot of sales.They just won't do it in reality.(and that's if they investigate bricked 'scopes forensically, which they won't, they'll only be interested in thecauseof failure)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 04:41:51 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on December 19, 2023, 05:38:13 amThe DHO804 doesn't have bode plot so I assume OP isn't interested in that.Does the Siglent do windowing? That's a really nice feature of these new Rigols.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 05:25:19 pm
content: The idea is good, but the execution is not so good and the display is even smaller on the small screen.Yes, you can connect a monitor, but you usually want to use the scope on its own.I think the option of "hiding" channels to have a better view of math channels, for example, is currently better.