FPGA Board suggestion - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 06:11:07 pm
content: Hi..,I am planning to buy an FPGA board for personal usage.The budget is below 80EUR. well, the lower the better.I am waiting for the confirmation for the university pricing program.If I am granted, I planning to purchase one of these:1.Basys3-Artix-7-FPGA-Board2.DE10-Nano Kit3.DE0-Nano Development and Education BoardIs there any other suggestion besides those boards?I am open to any other suggestion including boards from Aliexpress just in case I am not granted the university pricing program or need to wait sometimes until my instructor's approval.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 06:51:52 pm
content: I think DE10 is significantly better option than the other two. The 110kLE FPGA is really big, plus the HPS system and all that memory - that's a good deal.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 09:46:13 pm
content: The Basys 3 board IS a Digilent board.The student price is a heck of a lot less than I paid!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 10:07:00 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on August 15, 2017, 07:40:32 pmWhat's wrong with those boards? The Cylcone board I got from Ebay does what it should do.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 10:16:18 pm
content: I'd look at a board which has some buttons and LEDs on board so you can at least do some testing without needing to hook-up extra hardware. A button debouncer will be the first design challenge though.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 10:32:44 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 15, 2017, 10:16:18 pmIndeed. I cheaped out and got a basic board because, well, it was cheap. Even though hooking up other hardware is not complicated, I quickly started regretting not spending a little bit more. There is just a lot more to go wrong and it'll bite you when you least expect it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 02:18:39 am
content: That Basys3 Artux 7 board is Digilent's lower end student board. $149The Nexys4_DDR is the higher end student board.$320The ARTY is the budget starter board. $99Both the Nexys and ARTY can do the Ethernet Echo Server example - look for the Resource link on the product page.. All use the Artix 7 chip but the Nexys 4 uses a larger chip.The ARTY has IO headers that will interoperate with Arduino Shields (I wouldn't count on all the Shields being useful).Get enough computer horsepower and Vivado isn't too bad! The same computer makes ISE fly!iI have the ARTY and the NEXYS4 DDR along with the Basys 2 and a bunch of Spartan 3 and 3E boardsDigilent provides a component for the NEXYS4 DDR that drives the DDR memory and provides an SRAM style interface. That takes away most of the complication of using DDR.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 08:35:21 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 16, 2017, 02:18:39 amI was recently faced with the same choice.I also don't know what I might or might not want to do with a board yet. lol. I nearly got the Arty but upsold myself to the newer Arty Z7-20, which is twice the price but has 2.5x more LUTs and also an ARM processor embedded in the FPGA.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 09:26:52 am
content: I have never used an FPGA board before but I am planning to soon.https://www.scarabhardware.com/product/minispartan6-with-spartan-6-lx-25/I thought this board was interesting, it has some nice featuresAn 8-channel analog to digital converter running at 1 MSPS with 12 bit resolutionMemory: 32MB of SDRAM, 64Mbit of SPI Flash and a microSD card interfaceTwo on-board HDMI portsFull Speed USB 480MbpsI haven't seen many boards at that price point coming close to that, ofcourse I can imagine HDMI is not an easy thing to do but even if you leave that for a while until you are confident the board still has loads of potential at $105.00.Does anybody with real FPGA experience have any opinions on this board? I was also thinking of buying it my self.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 10:26:20 am
content: Quote from: Aodhan145 on August 16, 2017, 09:26:52 amI helped them out with their Kickstarter, and have a 720p pass-through projecthttp://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/MiniSpartan6%2B_DVID_Logo- Nice tiny size.- Header layout are annoying - you can't breadboard with them.- USB interface is nice - can run at 60MB/s in FIFO mode, 400x the bandwidth of serial at 115200.- ADC more useful than XADC on 7-series (or at least I think it is).- HDMI In/Out is nice, but the LX9 FPGA is too small much video processing- HDMI Can't handle pixel clocks needed for 1080p/50 or 1080p/60 (limitation of FPGA)- DIP switches are almost usable.- Audio is quite a nice feature to have- Uses older ISE tool set - but still perfectly functional though.When I was actively using it, programming required a command-line tool - seehttp://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/MiniSpartan6%2B_bringupAll in all, a great board if you are happy building your own custom add-ons for any additional I/O (e.g. buttons and switches)PS. DVI-D / HDMI isn't that hard to get started with. I've done some of the leg-work for you athttp://hamsterworks.co.nz/mediawiki/index.php/Minimal_DVI-D

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 01:54:37 pm
content: Mentioned just above - programming...On the more modern boards there will be some kind of USB interface for programming. This may be an FTDI chip or one of the Cypress FX2 devices. What is nice to avoid is a board that only has a JTAG header and requires an external programmer.It's even better if there is integration between the programmer and the IDE. In some cases, back in the ISE days, I would have to use Digilent's Adept tool to do the actual programming because ISE simply couldn't connect to the programming gadget. There is now a driver but I haven't tried it.When you get to using the Xilinx SDK, it's helpful if the USB gadget can work as the programmer/debugger. I haven't tried much in the way of debugging (single stepping and such) and I'm not sure how that works but apparently I can do breakpoints. I tend to use a lot of printf()'s and this works well. Both the Arty and the Nexys4 DDR have a convenient USB interface.The best board ever produced (and long obsolete), in my view, is the Digilent Spartan 3 Starter Board. It had 3 50-pin headers, switches, LEDs, VGA, PS/2, 4 digit 7-segment display and it was pretty cheap. The 3E board is also pretty nice and it has the USB programming interface. These boards were inexpensive and had a lot of IO capability and one variant had a rather large FPGA. Time moves on and the Artix chips are where most of the newer entry level boards are going.Cost permitting, I think I would take the Nexys4 DDR over the Arty because it uses a larger FPGA. The Echo Server demo uses 56% of the Arty LUTs and only 19% of the Nexys4.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 01:58:30 pm
content: QuoteI prefer to have an external professional Xilinx cable.FX-Chips are a completely different matter, since it's an high speed link (up to 20Mbyte/sec).Board with SRAm and FX-Chips are priced 150 euro, anyway.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 04:00:05 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on August 16, 2017, 01:58:30 pmI have several JTAG cables/dongles but I don't think they will work with the Xilinx SDK for debugging Microblaze code or provide any kind of serial IO. They certainly work well but they just don't interface as easily as a serial port. The older ones that used the DB25 connector are clearly useless. Even a straight serial cable is nearly useless with any modern PC.There's something nice about being able to power the board, program the device and interoperate with the debugger all over a single USB cable. I expect JTAG to see continued use in manufacuring where no serial port or debug port is required.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 04:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 16, 2017, 01:54:37 pmArty Z7-20 is $200 vs $320 for the Nexys4 DDR.The Nexys4 DDR has more LUTs and flip-flops but only about 20% more -- I suspect the difference is the space for the dual ARM A9 cores on the Arty. The block RAM is just about identical. The Arty has twice as much DDR RAM and gigE vs 10/100. The Nexys has a lot more switches, LEDs, and the 7 segment displays and accelerometer.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 05:42:03 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 16, 2017, 04:00:05 pmah ok, for that reason.Yup I agree, but I prefer to have one or two external serial lines, e.g. on FTDI2232.One connector is for the jtag and goes to the external Xilinx-jtag-usb cable, or to the Xilinx-jtag-ethernet cable, one connector is for the serial debugger (e.g. gdb), and one connector is for the console.Plus a super fast link made with the FX-chip, usually used to upload/download staff.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 01:05:06 am
content: While looking for a board with good options I came across the shop linked below on Aliexpress. It seems to have a nice selection and variety of boards, while also having very decent prices. I have not received my board yet, but have been communicating with them for a while now about a board that was mentioned but not stocked and that left a good impression. Language is obviously a barrier, but the responses are swift and effective. The documentation of the board has been sent my way and seems to be adequate, with the various devices and pin-outs described. It seems to be enough to make good use of the board. A guide on how to test the board and various code examples are also included. If there is any interest, I will report back when I receive the board.Please note that I am in no way affiliated.https://www.aliexpress.com/store/620372

author: avocado
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 07:46:23 pm
content: hi guys,Thanks for all your suggestions.I installed Quartus Prime Lite today.I think it is more resource friendly for my laptop comparing with Vivado.It can be used with Cyclone IV fpga.I do not know the Cyclone IV counterpart in Altera but Vivado only works with the modern generations of fpga.Well, I guess my options getting bigger, in the direction of cheaper fpga board like ones from aliexpress.I am still looking around the internet though and still waiting for more discussions here before buying.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 08:37:48 pm
content: If you get one of these:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-Blaster-altera-fpga-board-altera-board-fpga-development-board-EP4CE6E22C8N-board-cyclone-IV-kit/32813061054.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/usb-blaster-EP4CE10E22C8N-altera-fpga-board-altera-board-fpga-development-board-cyclone-IV-board/32813736111.htmlI am more than happy if you PM me for getting started help with it, as I have one here too...(The more expensive one has a few extras. The boards themselves are both 'perfectly adequate' - i.e. not perfect, but not that useless either)

author: jefflieu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 11:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: avocado on August 15, 2017, 06:11:07 pmIf you have the budget, I'd suggest the number 2 for its price and the SOC on it.There will always be some sort of processor running for most projects, either external or internal.The one with SOC will serve you better in the longer run.This is a similar board for Xilinx: ZynqBerry (I don't have one)https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/trenz-electronic-gmbh/TE0726-03-07S-1C/1686-1094-ND/7327826About board from Aliexpress, you can buy, but choose the simple ones.I would avoid buying things with DDR2/DDR3 stuff /BGA chips/RF.These stuff need some investment in tools and equipments to develop and verify, I wouldn't trust small suppliers.I have one from Aliexpress. It's super simple and it works.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 12:59:18 pm
content: I wish I had more free time and more skills on PCB designing as when the best fpga-board ever is the one you design by yourselfIn my case it looks to papilio/pro, but with double fpga since one needs to be dedicated as sram-controller(1) to be used as VideoRam (suitable for framebuffer applications) and System ram (suitable for softcore applications), a couple of NVRAM static ram (or FeRam?), more SRAM (I don't like ddr, and 32MB of ram is fine, I don't need more ram anyway), a Cypress EZ-USB FX2 fast link, and a XC9572XL (5V tollerant) cpld.The sram controller needs a lot of time constraints and a clock of no less than 99Mhz, thus it needs the DCM module to triplicate the crystal clock (33Mhz on Papilo/Pro), and all of these are critical path design unless you want to use IP-parts by Xilinx. Not so complex, it can be done, but they are a black-box piece of code, thus I prefer to embed them into a dedicated fpga and model the whole chip in ModelSim as "black box chip" which offers an interface with a precise behavior!All of these, anyway, if it's made like a "PDA-shaped board" it for sure requires a clever pcb-design, especially if small size (high density).It's definitively a no-go for EagleCAD and I am afraid it requires something more powerful like Altium, which I am trying to learn ... but the learning curve is ... like a rocket to reach Mars!Soon or later ... I hope I will make it.Spartan 6 FPGA Board with EZ-USB FX2 (no SDRAM)Spartan 6 FPGA Board with EZ-USB FX2 and DDR SDRAMIn the meanwhile I am fine withthisboard. It's perfect for my for my softcore project; it offers all I need (even if ... the SRAM controller as well as the PLL in the DCM module are both inside the whole vhdl design and this gives me some problem since I can't simulate them in a comfortable way and I needed to create to profiles "synthesis" and "simulation" in order to include/exclude IP-driven files). It also offers 100 GPIO on two comfortable header connectors on the back of the board, and 37 GPIO between the fpga and the FX2 chip to implement a super fast usb-link (which is marvelous if you aim for uploading/downloading stuff as fast as you can: 20Mbyte/sec reached!!!)There are also at least three methods to bootstrap the fpga: -1- from the jtag (you need an external jtax-cable) -2- from the SPI-flash and -3- from the FX chip!WOOOOOWAll good feedbacks from me, no doubt it's my best purchase everJust mind the gap between this board and others: it's a largely expensive board, something like ~160 euro once VAT and postage appliedCode:1 xUSB-FPGA Module 2.04b (XC6SLX16, 64 MB DDR RAM)119.00EUSub-Total:119.00EURStandard Shipping (1-2 weeks):9.00EURPaypal Charges:1.79EURplus 19% VAT:24.66EUR=================================Total:154.44EUR

author: alin_im
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 12:29:20 pm
content: I have the Altera DE1 Board, I am pretty please with it and it served me well during my undergraduate, if you find it too expensive have a look at Altera DE0 Board. It works out of the box and you don't need to have external parts for beginning. When you are getting more advanced with them you can always add external parts using the expansion connectors. The FPGAs on them are pretty old, but I don't think you would need better then this for hobby use.https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=165&No=83Altera DE1 Board - Academic:$127 / Price:$150https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=165&No=364Altera DE0 Board - Academic:$81 / Price:$119

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 01:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 17, 2017, 01:05:06 amBut be careful to buy a board with documentation. Recently I bought a board from eBay:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/mysterious-fpga-board-with-vga-output/and was quite a bit of work to get all the documentation for it, but now we have even a full QSF file (for the pin mapping), I can recommend this board. VGA output is nice for learning FPGA, because it is easy to create a VGA signal, as I did once:http://www.frank-buss.de/yagraphcon/The DE0 nano is also very good. No need to buy a DE1 if you don't have a project in mind which needs the more powerful board. With a DE0 Nano you can implement a full C64 with SID etc.:

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 10:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on August 20, 2017, 01:12:24 pmYes, documentation is important. That seems to be available with the boards in the shop I posted. Documentation was sent to me promptly after purchase and all the various parts and components seem well indicated. A guide on how to test the board and various examples have also been included.As far as I can tell, they develop most boards themselves and they seem pretty proud of it too.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 02:48:22 pm
content: One more to the list: Arrow DECA10https://www.arrow.com/en/products/deca/arrow-development-tools

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 03:20:57 pm
content: I bought the old version of the Nexys 4, the one with CellularRAM and it's served me well, but I think a board with an onboard CPU is what you should get for a touch of futureproofing.I'll throw my vote behind the DE10-nano because it has documentation and support (I assume).You can still get ISE if you want to use older xilinx chips. the software is a bit long in the tooth though.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 12:06:16 am
content: In a discussion about microcoding last week, I got interested in the LC3 RISC processor from Patt & Patel.I have the basic instructions running and I just stumbled across an assembler written in Python (although the authors provide tools, they are best implemented on Linux and I don't have that on my new machine. So...I'm here to tell you that no matter how many 7 segment digits, LEDs, buttons and switches you have on the board, it's not enough. I wind up displaying all kinds of internal signals while trying to find my errors.I like the "stamp" format like the boards from ZTEXhttps://www.ztex.de/usb-fpga-2/usb-fpga-2.01.e.htmlbut only if I have the debug board to go along with ithttps://www.ztex.de/usb-fpga-2/debug.e.htmlI'm using a Nexys2_DDR board for LC3 because it has a lot of gadgets. They come in quite handy. I'm not really very interested in boards without features.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 07:47:54 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 22, 2017, 12:06:16 amThat is the board I was talking about some posts ago!Bought one, and I am not interested in the companion board because the 2.04 board offersa fast usb link, I use it as "scope", and "upload/download" link to/from the sdram/brama Cypress MPU, I use it as "advanced debug processor(1)"SDRAM, I use it as data and code memory for the softcore, but I have also reserved slices for the "scope"I don't need I/O in this case, except I/O for an external asynchronous nv-ramI am going to make a backplane PCB like the one I designed for the Papilo/ProI mean something easy like this:(1) I have designed a debug processor in vhdl, but, in order to consume small resources, it ended to be like jtag, thus an external MPU running a protocol GDB-like is better.

author: simmconn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 09:35:21 pm
content: I'm not sure if they did it on purpose or what, but some small changes at the time of design could have made the low-cost FPGA boards more attractive for people who develop products using low cost FPGAs:On Basis 3, they could have wired the unused PIC ports to the unused FPGA I/O pins, so a 'maker' could develop FPGA applications with USB connection. They came to the senses on the CMOD S6 but then decided to hide away the entire USB part from the schematics on the CMOD A7.On the CMOD A7, they could have routed differential pairs to the PMOD to facilitate LVDS applications like on the other boards (so-called High Speed PMOD), yet they did not.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 03:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 17, 2017, 01:05:06 amThanks Mr. Scram!I was looking for some cheapish, but not too barebone FPGA board, so I bit the bullet and invested 400SEK (~50$, now it's 460SEK) in thisEP4CE15 FPGA+base boards.The FPGA is neither recent, nor large (15K LE) but as a first step -not counting PSoC!- I think it will be more than enough to get a taste.The seller answered my request for info in minutes (never happened to me on AE!) and sent the links to the documentation, which looks quite OK.As Mr. Scram says, plenty of examples, FPGA and base board schematics, even IC datasheets and "English" user manuals, not exactly Shakespearian prose, but who am I to judge...We'll see when (if?) I receive it, it's the highest sum I've ever spent on AliExpress let's hope for the best.Now let's go and read all the Verilog vs. VHDL thread...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 05:46:15 pm
content: Quote from: newbrain on August 23, 2017, 03:55:57 pmYou're welcome, I'm glad I could be of help. The seller is unusually responsive indeed, and a pleasure to deal with. The English is not perfect by a long shot, but functional enough to get the job done.Can I ask you about the PSoC family you worked with? I'm having trouble estimating how much or little custom logic you can actually fit inside one of these microcontrollers. That makes it hard for me to judge whether an FPGA with a microcontroller embedded or these PSoC chips with logic added will be more suitable for my purposes.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 09:43:30 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 23, 2017, 05:46:15 pm"Worked" == having fun as a hobbyist!So take what I say with a large pinch of salt.I'd have liked to give some actual example, but I'm far from my machine (about 2500km, and I managed to shut down my VPN server VM, so I cannot reach my git repos...).I have only used PSoC 5LP, which has 24 UDBs.UDBs bear some resemblance to the usual FPGA LEs, but the addition of the so called "Datapath" make them more powerful.Each UDB contains two PLD 12C4 structure, with their macrocells, and a datapath.The total product terms for a PSoC 5 is 384 (8 per PLD).In what I have done, I've never hit the limits, closest I got was for this frequency meter due mostly to the long chain of dividers by ten:Of course, the complexity is limited, but to see someone stretching the capabilities to the limit, seethis thread.