Repairing carbon traces on a Casio WK-110 keyboard PCB? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Agent24
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 08:28:10 am
content: I have been looking at a friend's Casio WK-110 keyboard as one of the keys was not working.The rubber membrane part looks in good condition, but it seems there was some liquid ingress onto the keyswitch PCB which has caused a couple of carbon 'fingers' for the switch contact of the dead key, to come away from the board. Unfortunately Casio cheaped out where they could have used ENIG or such instead, I guess.Anyway, I have been researching if it's possible to repair these with some kind of conductive paint...At first I thought silver conductive paint such ashttps://www.synergyelectronics.co.nz/store/electrolube-scp03b-silver-conductive-paintmight work, but after further research I see there is concern that such paints may tarnish over time and become non-conductive (at least, externally). This would of course make it useless for a switch contact.Another suggestion was black "Indian ink" from an art supply shop, e.g.https://www.warehousestationery.co.nz/product/W2802098.htmlApparently this is conductive due to the carbon content.But has anyone used this to repair key contacts? Did it work? And what was the longevity?I also see some Indian ink advertised as "high carbon" - does anyone have information whether this is better or worse for such a repair?Or ... is there some other product which would work? I do like the sound of the Indian ink though, it's pretty cheapAdditionally... is there something I can safely clean the carbon contacts/PCB with before attempting repair? I only soaked up the liquid that remained with a cotton swab I don't know what it was or if it has left a residue that would hinder adhesion.

author: QOTF-Alexi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:10:21 am
content: I repaired a few carbon contacts in calculators with a relatively soft graphite pencil and they seem to hold fine over the years (although they don't see the same use as a keyboard of course), so I'd assume Indian ink would work just fine, although I'm not 100% sure how well it'll adhere to a smooth surface. As far as I'm aware, graphite does not dissolve in alcohol so you could try that for cleaning.

author: Agent24
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:31:57 am
content: Quote from: QOTF-Alexi on July 22, 2024, 09:10:21 amInteresting. I would have thought just the mark made using a pencil would come off quickly. I'm surprised you say it lasted years!I wondered about the smooth surface too but forgot to add it. Maybe the PCB surface could be roughened with a fiberglass pen or sandpaper etc. I guess it'd make sense to just get some of the Indian ink and do some tests. It was mentioned that some are not conductive, while most are.I also see now that some are described as waterproofhttps://www.whitcoulls.co.nz/fas-waterproof-indian-ink-60ml-black-5544777-black- I wonder if the waterproof version would be less or non-conductive. Does anyone know that?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:43:20 am
content: https://www.kontaktchemie.com/koc/KOCproductdetail.csp?division=&product=GRAPHIT%2033&ilang=en&plang=en

author: Agent24
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:54:00 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 22, 2024, 09:43:20 amThat looks quite good but doesn't appear to be available in New Zealand, however.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 10:06:04 am
content: Quote from: Agent24 on July 22, 2024, 09:54:00 amYeah, maybe not, but that is what you need to aim for. Look for conductive graphite paint or spray.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 10:18:27 am
content: If the original trace is gone, I don't think it can be done with the pencil method.The recommended solution is to use conductive paint. Are conductive "pens" available locally?In my country they are very common and are sold in bottles like car touch-up pens for the purpose of providing electromagnetic shielding to plastic cases. Spray cans are also available.The paint is brown in color, I believe copper is used instead of silver.I don't know about degradation over time, but I think it depends on the conductive material content. I think it can be repainted again when it deteriorates.Another method: cut and apply copper tape in the shape of an "E" and solder it. There is nothing that cannot be done.Cleaning is always with isopropanol.

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 10:47:08 am
content: This stuff maybe?https://www.jaycar.co.nz/wire-glue-9ml/p/NM2831P.S. No, I don't know what "not intended to be used at a PCB level" means or why.

author: Agent24
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 11:17:32 am
content: Quote from: ozcar on July 22, 2024, 10:47:08 amI did not notice that product before, thanks, it looks interesting. (If not for this, then maybe something else)Going by the rest of the description I'm guessing it may not adhere to non-metallic surfaces well? But it's hard to tell.I wish companies would be more upfront with data... why so many vague details? Ugh...I did find some carbon paint at DigiKeyhttps://www.digikey.co.nz/en/products/detail/mg-chemicals/838AR-55ML/23028605but it'd have to be part of a bigger order to avoid shipping costs. And while they state it adheres to plastics well, they don't mention anything else. Not an insignificant cost if it didn't actually bond.At least it's got a better working life than the only conductive stuff Farnell sells - a dedicated membrane key repair compound (!)https://nz.element14.com/chemtronics/cw2605/rubber-keypad-repair-kit/dp/128790but it's 2-part epoxy style and doesn't last more than 3 days once mixed. And it has the highest cost at just over $50 for something a hobbyist can realistically only use for a single repair...Does anyone have experience to suggest _against_ the Indian ink idea?

author: jzx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 11:53:55 am
content: You can try the indian ink on some old board, but I don't thik it is conductive.There is also "aqudag", the material used in the outer surface of crt, it is conductive, but I have never used, and I do not know how is applied and fixed.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 01:02:41 pm
content: Quote from: Agent24 on July 22, 2024, 11:17:32 amI think "Indian Ink" probably means the same thing as "India Ink". If you are referring to the black ink used in calligraphy, this is something that is dissolved in water, not something that can be glued on.Someone in my language experimented with conductivity, who sprayed cloth with a conductive spray, smeared it with the purpose of further reducing the still high resistance, and used it as a flexible conductive cloth.He said it was about 50-500 ohms.It might be possible to mix epoxy with carbon or metal powder and make it conductive, but I've seen articles before that say no matter how much you mix it, it will never be conductive.If you want to experiment with india ink, there is Inkstick in solid form.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 10:19:48 pm
content: I have had great success over the years using Ted Pella Inc. PELCO Colloidal Graphite in an isopropanol base.https://www.tedpella.com/technote_html/16053%20TN.pdfhttps://www.tedpella.com/SEMmisc_html/SEMpaint.aspx#_16053It is not expensive and I use it for my SEM but it works great for oven controls, remote controls, corroded connections (low current) and seems to be stable for years.

author: Agent24
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2024, 11:38:30 pm
content: Quote from: richnormand on July 22, 2024, 10:19:48 pmThat product also sounds great, but it would seem there's no easy way to get it in New Zealand either. Their closest distributor is in Australia, who sell the product for $40, and which requires a hazardous goods shipping service, and I don't think I want to know how much that costs.All the "science supply" shops I can find in NZ only sell stuff for optical microscopy, not SEM. Maybe there are no local shops that stock such products. I imagine universities and other customers just include such supplies in large bulk orders from overseas, at which point the hazardous goods freight cost is negligible?

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 10:22:45 pm
content: Ask around universities or labs that use SEMs, there might be an similar alternate product they use.It is about US$8 here (but you get beaten on shipping for small orders). Looks like there are lots of people greasing their paws along the way.....Now, even at that price you will have a lifetime supply (if it works well for your application).Best of luck finding something that works for you.Cheers

author: VK2AZT
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 07:53:09 am
content: The Jaycar Wire Glue will work. I used it before for almost the same purpose. It's a bit thick and viscose but you should be able to use it if you are careful. It takes about 12 hours to fully cure.Cheers.

author: Agent24
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 08:13:51 pm
content: Quote from: VK2AZT on July 25, 2024, 07:53:09 amThank you! So you can confirm it will bond to the PCB substrate?

author: VK2AZT
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 10:55:46 pm
content: As long as they haven't changed the formulation of the product, it will adhere to the board. Don't worry if you apply too much as once it starts to dry you can carefully scrape away areas that you don't want. Use a sharp blade like an X-acto or scalpel type blade.I applied the wire glue with a toothpick at first which met with limited success. I had better luck with a fine tip precision flat blade screwdriver.Surface prep is important as usual. Make sure that there is no grease or oils on the board, including skin oils. Leave the dark areas where the original conductive traces were attached. Those are usually primer paints that help the conductive traces adhere.You don't have much time before the wire glue starts to skin so I recommend that you practice on some waste board to become familiar with this product's behavior.Keep the bottle well sealed when you've finished with it and I do recommended keeping it in the fridge. It will harden in no time at all otherwise after you first open it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 03:54:54 am
content: They originally used carbon paint to print those contacts, so the resistance is not going to be a problem - these switches normally go to CMOS inputs and don't need to pass much if any current.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 05:28:42 am
content: I once repaired a Roland D-50 synthesizer and used conductive paint (if I remember correctly, it was some silvery stuff). It worked fine. And yes, resistance shouldn't be a problem, it's just working as a switch with very low current.