Wiha 41246 Automatic Crimp Tool.... not producing hex profile? Solved - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2025, 10:21:41 am
content: I have a Wiha 41246 Automatic Crimp Tool, its described as a hex crimp tool, but I'm not getting a hex profile on 0.75mm ferrules, instead is has pinch points arranged in 3 circles but no change to the overall profile of the ferrule which remains circular and 1.6mm diameter.Is it that the hex profile is only achieved on larger crimps? or is this a feature of this particular tool?alternative tools such as....Klauke K306Khttps://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B013RV16ROorKnipex 97 55 14 SBhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B086K4YYKMcan anyone confirm if they produce a hex profile on a 0.75mm crimp?ThanksHarry

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2025, 10:34:09 am
content: for completeness the ferrule I'm using is the Knipex 0.75mm 97 99 910https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07895T4Y2and the cable is UK CA cable of 0.75mm

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2025, 01:57:14 pm
content: Hi,Such ferrules can't be (or aren't) usually pressed into such well-defined shapes as a geometric hexagon, not at a particular cross-section, let alone through all cross-sections. Usually all that's required for functionality is for the ferrule to stay crimped to the wire, and for them to fit a hole, and for them to not come out of the hole. They may be further deformed if the hole happens to be a screw terminal.I don't know your reason for requiring a hexagon, but if it's to fit a particular hole, it's worth being aware that the shape and hole requirement will change slightly depending on the wire thickness too. You might find it looks slightly more hexagon-like if the wire diameter is thinner that what you're using, but it still won't be a hexagon as such. The crimped result does not have a well-defined diameter nor shape.It's possible to measure and write your own guidelines for your tool, so that you know an (approx.) worst-case diameter hole that you will require for different ferrule sizes and given wire sizes that are not too disproportionate to the ferrule diameter. I've done that for the tool I use (which has four indenting areas, and they do not produce a square shape, it can become a 4-sided star-like shape, and can even be slightly diamond-shaped, depending on the ferrule and wire size).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2025, 03:39:18 pm
content: Quote from: hazzer on August 23, 2025, 10:21:41 amThat is the same exact tool as the Wiha — they are both the WEZAG AE0816:https://www.private-label-tools.de/en/werkzeug/crimptool-ferrules-ae0816/You could send your pictures to Wiha or WEZAG and let them say whether that’s normal for 0.75mm2.However, based on the attached photo from Wiha’s website, I’m now almost certain it’s performing as expected. The black* ferrule insulator means that’s a 1.5mm2 ferrule, and even that fully double cross-section looks just like your photos. The yellow (6mm2) ferrule next to it shows a clear hexagonal profile.For what it’s worth, your crimp looks like a great crimp, and wouldn’t give me the slightest cause for concern.(The same tool is also sold as the Panduit CT-1160, Gedore 8158, JST WZ 0.08-16, Nelco EHX 00816, and doubtless many others. But only Wiha has photos of the crimped terminals in multiple sizes.)* Of the three ferrule color codes in use, the DIN standard is the only one where black is smaller than yellow, so it must be DIN.

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2025, 05:07:40 pm
content: Thanks for that photo and links, yes that's pretty much an identical shaped ferrule, I'm more relaxed now I've seen that, panic overSo the model is sold under various names, there's some range in prices between what appear to be the same item...I'd be interested to see how the Knipex performed if someone had such a tool and could post an image ?Thanks again for the replyHarry

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2025, 05:18:22 pm
content: re "It's possible to measure and write your own guidelines for your tool" thanks yes that's a good suggestion...H

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2025, 05:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: hazzer on August 23, 2025, 05:07:40 pmYep. I have a few theories about that:1. Some companies charge whatever because they can, knowing that big corporate customers may not care.2. Big companies may do a lot of sales directly (for example, WAGO and Phoenix Contact) to customers, and having a high list price means they can offer bigger discounts and still not be losing any money.3. In the case of ferrules, if you need UL certification to sell assembled wiring to the North American market, the UL certification is only valid for thespecific combinationof specific ferrules and tools. (I’ll call that a “ferrule system”.) So, for example, Phoenix Contact’s ferrules are UL-certified when crimped with most of their crimp tools. But if you use Phoenix Contact ferrules with a Weidmüller crimper, the crimped ferrule is not UL-certified, even though both Phoenix Contact and Weidmüller’s ferrule systems are UL-certified. Now, because the dimensions of ferrules themselves are defined in a DIN standard, I am sure that a Weidmüller ferrule crimped with a Phoenix (or Wiha or Klauke or Knipex) tool would actually pass whatever tests were needed to get UL certification. But since they weren’t actually tested that way, it doesn’t count. The point being, a given manufacturer is of course only going to pay to get certification for the combinations of their own ferrules and tools, so that they can keep you buying their ferrules and tools and nobody else’s. And that in turn means they could charge more money, theoretically.Quote from: hazzer on August 23, 2025, 05:07:40 pmI only have the square crimp Knipex, but could take a picture if you want. (At work, I have a square Phoenix Contact/Pressmaster, and my privately-owned no-name Chinese hex crimper is also at work.)

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2025, 08:25:19 pm
content: This Wiha tool I have says its under patent and manufactured in Germany....and yet I agree the tools you listed all look identical, yes I've seen corporations buy up smaller manufacturers to later hike the pricesknowing its expensive for buyers to re test with alternative parts and tools... business school lesson 101Yes pls post a photo from the Knipex tool, a small ferrule if you can, I'm curious to see if it delivers a square profile or just indents as per the hex tool...otherwise all good, I'm happy with the Wiha tool, and I've more ferrules arriving, this is a bit of a rabbit hole but all to the good.H

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2025, 12:12:53 pm
content: yes all good, larger ferrules of 1.5mm, 1.5mm twin, and 6mm all show a hex profile,the Wiha (WEZAG) tool is producing nice crimps, very happy with it.H

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2025, 06:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: hazzer on August 24, 2025, 08:25:19 pmWell yeah. Patented and manufactured by WEZAG in Germany.WEZAG is a tool manufacturer that chooses to not sell tools under its own name. Their entire business is to make tools and sell them under other companies' names. This can be "generic" tool manufacturers like Wiha, but probably most of their business is as a supplier to connector manufacturers.For example, I have a TE/AMP crimp tool that is made by WEZAG. But I've also used WEZAG-made tools for JST and Amphenol.Basically, a connector manufacturer will go to WEZAG (or a competing crimp tool maker, like Pressmaster, Rennsteig (Knipex), Sargent, or Daniels) and say "we have a new connector that uses a new contact design and we need a crimp tool for it with the following specs, please make it for us". The tool maker will basically design appropriate dies and a locator (contact holder) to use with one of their standard tool frames. And as the tool manufacturers design better tool frames (easier to use, need less force, etc), they compete with each other for the connector companies' business, which is why it's not at all uncommon for connectors that have been around for a while to have the tools change manufacturer now and then. (For example, Molex used to use a lot of WEZAG and Sargent, now they're mostly Pressmaster.)

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2025, 07:17:17 pm
content: I thought the square ones are better because of how a screw terminal looks. The top and bottom are the contact points, and it seems that you have a bigger flat area to clamp down with a screw terminal or lever terminal on a square rather then a hexagon... and the square is I believe a lower profile then the hexagon, since it has no displaced miter, so that means it fits better with the screw more inserted into the terminal. And its harder to excessively deform because its a big flatI had shitty ferrule crimps inside of keysight equipment that suddenly fit into the screw terminals they were selling adapters for, when I re-compressed the thing with a wago square crimper. Otherwise you need a screw in extension board. What ever mangled crimp came out of the factory there was mishapen enough that you need to buy a $70 extension thingy, adding even MORE screws into the signal chain. I want as few as possible.Anyway, why are they doing hexagons now? Is there something with ampacity increasing because of the extra deformations? What is the point

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2025, 07:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 31, 2025, 07:17:17 pmElectrically, it does not matter. (I asked this question of several tool/ferrule manufacturers, they all said the same thing.) I would have expected that when using them in lever nuts (WAGO, etc) or other cage clamp style terminals, that a larger flat surface would be better, but they all swear it makes no difference at all.Where the shape does make a difference is in actually inserting the wire into the terminal. In particular, if you have a wire that is on the large side of a terminal's wire range, and the terminal has a round hole, a square or trapezoid crimp may be too wide to fit into the terminal, even if the cross-section is well within its capacity. Hex crimps do better for this.I have run into that exact situation numerous times, and I plan to get a hex ferrule crimper at work because of this. (I have both trapezoid and square now.)In screw terminals, the contact area will always be at minimum that of the screw head, which will compress the ferrule at that one spot tighter than the crimp tool would.Quote from: coppercone2 on August 31, 2025, 07:17:17 pm"Now"? They're nothing new. I couldn't tell you with certainty how long ago the first hex ferrule crimper came out, but it's been many years.I checked archive.org, and it looks like Knipex introduced their hex crimper in mid-2002. Pressmaster introduced their first hex crimper much later, in late 2018. (Which likely explains why the majority of cheap Chinese crimpers are clones of the Knipex design, with clones of the Pressmaster design only appearing recently.) I don't know if anyone released a hex ferrule crimper before Knipex.Normally, Chinese tool vendors just slavishly copy western and Japanese tools. But I recently saw a bona fide innovation (being generous) from them: an octagonal ferrule crimper. For very,verytight terminals it might have a slight advantage.I've attached Phoenix Contact's lovely ferrule poster (English and German versions). It has a nice little image showing the problem with square crimps and round holes.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2025, 07:31:14 pm
content: but I had a situation where the square was less tall then the half circle thing they have.I am not understanding the geometry, because to me, if you have a square, and you make it into a hexagon, it increases height and width, because of the volume that was displaced from the corners of the squareIMO ideally what you would want is a rectangle crimper that you can adjust the height and widthmaybe I Just ran into a unique problem, with the height being the issueis the square not the lowest profile out of all of them, outside of rectangles??I wonder if a hexagon or a square cools faster, if you heat up square stock and bar stock and measure how fast it loses temperature. Electrically, rounder things might have more favorable current paths too, the hexagon is closer to a round. Contact resistance might be the most important factor. The thermal and electrical properties might be at odds with each other, and it might be even more complicated because these terminals might be expected to handle high current in the KHz range for some applications.It might end up doing something on the 'it almost melted' surge

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2025, 07:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 01, 2025, 07:31:14 pmThis isliterallythe issue of square pegs in round holes.The circle is the shape with the smallest perimeter for a given area. Any other shape increases some dimension.Ferrules start out as circles. So when you crimp them to any other shape than a circle, the longest diagonal increases. When you crimp a ferrule from a circle to a square, the diagonal becomes longer than the diameter of the circle it started out as.For example, suppose we start with a 5mm (~6AWG stranded) diameter ferrule. Its area is:A = (5mm/2)2* 𝜋 ≈ 19.6mm2.Taking the square root of that gives us the dimensions of a square with the same area:Lside= sqrt(19.6mm) ≈ 4.43mmNow, using Pythagoras to get us the diagonal, we get:Ldiag= sqrt(4.43mm2+4.42mm2) ≈ 6.27mmSo if you have a screw terminal whose opening is 5.75mm diameter, the uncrimped ferrule will fit easily, while it won't fit at all once crimped to a square, because 6.27mm is significantly more than 5.75mm. A hex crimp will have a longest diagonal of 5.5mm. (Thanks,omnicalculator!) Thatwillfit in the 5.75mm hole, since 5.5mm is less than 5.75mm.(For shits and giggles, I used theiroctagon calculator, and the same area would produce an octagon with a longest diagonal of 5.27mm.)Quote from: coppercone2 on September 01, 2025, 07:31:14 pmNot if your terminals have round holes! That's the problem the hex crimper was invented to solve.Quote from: coppercone2 on September 01, 2025, 07:31:14 pmLook at the poster PDF I attached.Quote from: coppercone2 on September 01, 2025, 07:31:14 pmI think you'rewayoverthinking this.

author: hazzer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 07:47:13 pm
content: Thanks for the pdf's - a good summary.For my 2 pence worth - I note that wago221 style cage connectors are better suited to square ferrules when approaching the max size ...so I guess my toolbox will require hex and square tools....Thanks to all who posted - an interesting readPS - not all square ferrule tool produce the same profile, check out the 3 different profiles from these 3 Knipes tools...https://youtu.be/Vb4qSB9T8QA?feature=shared&t=232Also I noted that hex tools have pressure points as concentric rings while square tools have the pressure points offset for each sideand this is very evident when you look at smaller ferrules, given a choice I prefer the square tool for smaller diameter ferrules.....H