Learning The Art of Electronics - Parts BOM - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: BobsURuncle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 07:27:24 pm
content: If you purchased the hands on lab course Learning The Art of Electronics (pub 2016) and want to do all the labs, you will find a very time consuming and tedious task of ordering the parts as there are approximately 135 distinct part numbers (resistor set excluded) from 9 suppliers.To save others from the tedium, I have attached here Excel files with all the parts organized by the suppliers identified in LTAOE. For the 3 major distributors you can upload these files to populate your shopping cart ( in some cases you may need to manipulate the sheet a bit to conform to the distributors format). The sheets have quantities of 1 pc per part so you need to review and adjust all the quantities as you see fit. Where available I will supply a "Cart Share" link where you can go directly to the distributor and have a cart already populated. I also created a text file identifying some of the cost or availability isssues.The total cost of these parts if you buy one of each and can find all the parts is around $570 USD. I didn't research the text to see how many of each part were required, I just winged it: bought a few more if they seemed generally useful and were cheap and did not buy a few parts where the opposite was true.I hope you find this useful.Update: 8/12/16: Digikey is offering a kit which they claim to be complete. But it does not include roughly 40 part numbers that I compiled from the LTAOE book. Still it might at least offer some savings. They also include suggested quantities of parts which I did not include.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 08:39:33 pm
content: Wow, much appreciated indeed

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 12:42:22 am
content: Great!Thanks for all your efforts BobsURuncle.I'm about to purchase my copy to go with my AoE reference.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 03:17:33 pm
content: Just a note for those of you who may be finding a ca3096 hard to find or don't want to deal with the SOIC version, buy a cheap bag of 2n3904/3906 transistors and a $5 multimeter with hFe and just find a few close ones. It'll do the jobI'll post a list of cheap substitute parts as well when I get a few mins.Also TIL311 displays, which are actually really nice are dirt cheap on eBay.

author: BobsURuncle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 04:01:16 pm
content: Thanks MrSlack, I will try to capture these solutions in the Issues.txt as they become available. CA3096E, substitute for the CA3096CM96, is available cheap on Ebay.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 10:38:18 pm
content: Quick rundown now I've got a few minutes. Most of it appears to be brand whoring and is *very* expensive.page 1105Any old push button/toggle switches will do. Solder some 1/0.6 wire to them and whack them straight in the breadboard.TO-92 heatsink. Epoxy a small copper coin to the plastic case.Transfomer: use a 6v/9v AC wall wart. Does the job, won't kill you.page 1106Trimmers: buy some cheap chinese bourns 3386 clone blue cermet finger trimmers as they don't knacker your breadboard. These ones:Diodes: anything will do here really apart from the schottky. Sub 1n914 for 1n4148 for example. BZX series for 1N5232 if you're this side of the pond.page 1107Transistors: MJE2955/3055 - these are TO220 packaged 2n2955/3055 which are usually cheap as chips. Solder wires on them or they will kill your breadboard, same with TO220's! 2n3904/3906 can be subbed for bc327/337.MOSFETs: these are fussy buggers so best to stick with the recommendations.JFET current source: 1N5294 - these are impossible to get hold of in Europe: just use a JFET (J310) and a series resistor - same thing.page 1108Switching regulators: LT1073's are damn expensive. Learn about the On Semi MC34063A- dirt cheap and just as capable. Read the data sheet and application note for it. Anything Linear Technology (LT) is a mugging.page 1109Logic: all sensible ish. 74LS503 - WHYYYYYY it's dead....gap here as I haven't read the digital section further...1111Capacitors - ceramic: forget AVX CK05 - damn expensive. Grab some cheap blue MLCC's for 1n+ and use simple single layer ceramics discs for lower values, get NP0 ones if you can. Murata = win - quality and cheap.Polyester: get polybox ones - dead cheap. Who cares where they are made. The cheapest no brand ones I've bought are as good as the top line AVX/Vishay ones.Tantalum: don't buy these - they are damn dangerous to learn with. They blow up in your face if you look at them funny. Use cheap but branded electrolytic units i.e. Rubycon, Panasonic etc. They're good enough for this course.1112Resistors: grab a big bag of 5% 1/4W carbon film ones. Don't bother with the Allen Bradley or SEI branding. Probably about $5 from China.Equipment50MHz analogue scope. Tek 465 series fits the bill nicely. That's what I use anyway.2MHz function generator, preferably with sweep. If you can't find one with sweep, w2aew has a video with notes here on how to build a suitable ramp/sweep generator. You can literally just whack this into the VCO/sweep input on a normal function generator and trigger your scope off the 555 output pin to do frequency sweeps for filters etc:I just built the front end of this and tested it with my prototype FG and it works nicely although I only had TL072's around - still works fine.Some other things not mentioned:Buy lots of Pomona minigrabber to 4mm leads. At least 4. These things make life a million times easier instead of using meter probes etc as they stay put. Use a Pomona BNC socket to minigrabber on the end on an RG58 patch to inject your signals.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 11:10:54 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 27, 2016, 10:38:18 pmThanks MrSlack!Didn't fancy spending US$570 on the parts as listed.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 11:25:14 pm
content: Yeah it's a bit much. I can't see any universities dragging this sort of money out into the lab or many home users footing the bill. I got a bollocking from my university for blowing up a CD4001BE which costs nothing in large quantities so they're definitely not going to like you popping a box of TIL311s a week (they don't like being overvolted).

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 11:45:13 pm
content: Up a bit late (00:25) aren't you MrSlack?

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 08:14:42 am
content: I have young children. 22:00-02:00 is play time for me I.e. when they are asleep

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 09:25:35 am
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 28, 2016, 08:14:42 amAdult play time?My mistake - you have kids, so that wouldn't happen!

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 04:21:52 pm
content: IndeedThat's what 'city breaks' and paying the eldest to babysit were invented for

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 10:03:33 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 28, 2016, 04:21:52 pmCareful, that sort of break has been known to lead to unexpected complications

author: RLSprouse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 01:47:43 am
content: This is very helpful... Thank you very much!I wonder if anyone has thought about conducting an online electronics course using these books. I would be interested in having guidance from some knowledgeable folks, and some place to ask questions. Maybe we could just devote a forum section to it?

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 08:40:21 am
content: Some people on reddit /r/electronics were talking about exactly that.

author: stoica adrian
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 11:27:06 am
content: What kind of program you are using to read the file? i have problem in opening?

author: r4ptor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 12:48:29 pm
content: *.xls files are files for microsoft office excel. You can open the files using Excel, libreoffice calc etc.

author: BobsURuncle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 01:58:08 pm
content: Quote from: stoica adrian on April 16, 2016, 11:27:06 amExcel for the .xls and and Notepad or most any word processing software for the .txt file.Apparently, you can open XLS files without Microsoft Excel using Microsoft's free Excel Viewer, which supports opening and printing XLS files, as well as copying data out of them. Several free alternatives to Excel that can be used to both open and edit XLS files include Kingsoft Spreadsheets and OpenOffice Calc. I have only used Excel.You can upload the Excel files into the distributors BOM or shopping cart without opening them, (part numbers start on row 2) though you still need to view the Miscellaneous sheet to manually add to the shopping cart of the small distributors. Anyone contemplating an electronics hobby should have a spreadsheet program of some sort as standard lab equipment and I assumed they would all import .xls files, but maybe not.Would adding .csv files improve access or are the .xls files enough?The Digikey spreadsheet has been download 271 times without complaint so far. But I tried uploading it into a Digikey BOM and it was a bit messy. So I have reformatted it to be more Digikey friendly and will substitute it for my original spreadsheet in my original post at the top of this thread. Still the easiest way is to use the hyperlink in the spreadsheet to go to an already populated shopping cart - at least as long as Digikey keeps it there.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 06:36:49 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 27, 2016, 11:25:14 pmReleasing the magic smoke is all part of the learning process. Among other things, the practitioner will learn to read the datasheets to keep it from happening again. The amount of smoke is inversely proportional to the years of experience and directly proportional to the cost of the device. It would be an interesting survey except for the fact that the very experienced folks aren't going to fess up to smoking a very expensive component. There would be a bit of bias in the results.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 06:47:48 pm
content: QuotePresumably the lab budget at Harvard is a little more generous than average

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 08:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 16, 2016, 06:36:49 pmIf I blow up stuff, I tend to swap out the blown up thing and then see if it blows up again. You'd be surprised how many times it doesn't. Well didn't until I stopped recycling components and buying bags of surplus crap from radio fairs.

author: BobsURuncle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 04:50:54 pm
content: Digkey is now offering a kit for LTAOE. They claim it is the complete kit, but they have roughly 40 fewer part numbers than what I compiled from the book. Still it may offer some savings compared to buying piecemeal - with a promo code.http://www.digikey.com/en/resources/edu/harvard-lab-kit

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:21:10 pm
content: Quote from: BobsURuncle on August 12, 2016, 04:50:54 pmI don't know which items are missing and two items are on backorder but $252 seems reasonable for a complete package. If it turns out that a few things are missing, they can be ordered individually.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:49:57 pm
content: Side issue: I haven't read through the book but I was wondering what type of test equipment is required. Scope, signal generator (30 MHz enough?), power supply but what else?Yes, I know, RTFM...I see around page 428 that they are working with a motorized potentiometer that doesn't seem to be included with the DigiKey list. Sparkfun has a motorized slider that I think I'll order. In fact, they have a cool PONG game using 4 of the sliders, a couple of Arduinos and two hand-held pots. Insanely fast in 'demo' mode!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 11:37:43 pm
content: I went hunting for the breadboard used in LTAOE as shown on page 26:https://www.amazon.com/Global-Specialties-PB-503-Digital-Workstation/dp/B005S3SC0E/ref=pd_sim_sbs_328_6At nearly $370, I'll put that on back burner...Actually, if it was recommended for a degree program, I think the price would be workable. Add in about $250 worth of components and it's less than $650. The breadboard has a triple output power supply (which might save on the Rigol DP832 for a while) and a lot of other features so, really, it isn't a bad deal for an enthusiastic student. This kind of cost is insignificant in the overall cost of a EE degree. Books run between $100 and $250 EACH and there are a lot of them!

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 04:29:47 am
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 27, 2016, 11:25:14 pmIncredible. I've never fried one of these and I own about two dozen that I got on eBay before they got unreasonably expensive. I guess students working with someone else's parts might be less careful but I have found it relatively easy to always apply 5 volts to most of my projects.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 05:48:35 am
content: how much was the discount? doesn't say on digikey link.

author: Thistledown
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 07:15:30 pm
content: I think the PB-503 breadboard kit is more expensive than it should be. I went ahead and put together the following BOM from Adafruit to come up with something similar for < 20% of the price.1 x Adjustable breadboard power supply kit (v1.0) [ID:184] = $14.951 x Compact Switching Power Supply - Selectable Output 3-12VDC[ID:1448] = $14.952 x Breadboard-friendly SPDT Slide Switch[ID:805] = $1.901 x Potentiometer Knob - Soft Touch T18 - White[ID:2047] = $0.501 x Panel Mount 1K potentiometer (Breadboard Friendly) (1K Linear) [ID:1789] = $0.951 x Potentiometer Knob - Soft Touch T18 - Blue[ID:2048] = $0.501 x Panel Mount 10K potentiometer (Breadboard Friendly) (10K Linear) [ID:562] = $0.951 x Breadboarding wire bundle[ID:153] = $6.001 x Tactile Switch Buttons (12mm square, 6mm tall) x 10 pack[ID:1119] = $2.501 x Solid-Core Wire Spool - 25ft - 22AWG - Red[ID:288] = $2.951 x Large Solderless Breadboard[ID:443] = $19.951 x Breadboard-Friendly PCB Mount Mini Speaker - 8 Ohm 0.2W[ID:1898] = $1.85------------------------------------------------------Sub-Total: $67.95If you have a 12V wall wart, you can save $15.

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 07:35:57 pm
content: Quote from: Thistledown on August 16, 2016, 07:15:30 pmThey have a coupon code for 10% off on Wednesday nights at the end of the Ask An Engineer show.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 07:54:35 pm
content: It is clearly possible to use a box full of components to replace the PB-503. The only advantage to the PB is that it is fully assembled and NOT just a box of components scattered around the bench. So, to make the comparison a wee bit more equitable, add an enclosure and consider how much it is worth to assemble it. The discrete component approach will still be a lot cheaper but there's going to be some labor.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 08:12:47 pm
content: You forgot half of it.The PB-503 (I had one) has switchable TTL/CMOS inputs/outputs, debounced switches, two dual rail adjustable power supplies @ 500mA, fixed 5v supply @ 1A, XR2206 based function generator.Also it's got a breadboard that isn't complete crap.You can't replace it with that pile of bits, nor can you complete LTAOE with that pile of bits (I have the hardcopy here of both the 1e Lab manual and 3e of it)I've got a PB-203A I paid ~ £30 for here in the UK, refurbished it and it's MUCH better than any crap Adafruit sells.

author: Thistledown
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 12:29:59 am
content: I didn't list every function the PB-503 has, but this set of components seems to fulfill the book requirements. I plan on using an external function generator which even the book says is recommended. My goal was to find a less expensive alternative that would comprise most of what would be needed.Page 1120:"1.4 Powered breadboard...For an individual hobbyist, a cheaper alternative would be to buy a triple power supply (+5V +-15V) and individual breadboard strips or a set of three strips as in Global's PB-105 ($54). You would need to improvise other functions of the PB-503 ($433) that we find convenient:* A simple function generator. We seldom use the one provided by the PB-503. But when we want a second signal, it's handy.* Debounced switches.* Two potentiometers.* LEDsNone of those improvisations would be difficult."

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 07:18:55 am
content: You will find you need the internal and an external function generator particularly when it comes to doing the diff amp stuff. To be honest I don't think that section is well written as they suggest hacking a floating generator with a transformer which is a ball ache. You can just tie the inputs together or tie one to ground and use one generator to demonstrate common mode/diff mode respectively. Also a CA3096 in 2026?!?!?Needs some serious revision that text.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 10:56:58 am
content: 2016 = 4th edition?http://www.intersil.com/en/products/amplifiers-and-buffers/transistor-arrays/transistor-arrays/CA3096.htmlNo longer available or supported. Suggested replacement: HFA3096.http://www.intersil.com/en/products/space-and-harsh-environment/harsh-environment/transistor-arrays/HFA3096.htmlOnly SOIC, no Dip =(

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 11:51:52 am
content: 2016 = 3rd edition.Annoying about the CA3096 - very useful. Ft of the HFA3096 is much higher but it's impossible to handle in prototypes easily due to SOIC form factor.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:22:41 pm
content: Quote from: setq on August 17, 2016, 11:51:52 amSOIC is really no problem, just buy some adapters:https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13655SMD is the way it's going to be and we just need to have adapters laying around.When I read the manual for the PB-503 (pg 10) it says that the power supply adjustment requires a screwdriver even though the photo shows conventional knobs. Nope! No screwdriver adjustment, just easily bumped knobs. This has to change because we often run op amps pretty close to their maximum voltage. Unfortunately, these are the 1/2" diameter pots and I'm still looking for devices with a locking shaft. They are called 'bias pots' and I need two of them rated 2k Ohms.. If I can't find these, I'm going to mount 10 turn locking devices on the front edge.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 05:42:18 pm
content: The PB-203 doesn't have that problem. It has fixed 15,-15 and 5v outputs. You have to take it to bits to adjust the voltage.

author: ChrisG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 04:18:10 pm
content: @ MrSlack,50MHz analogue scope. Tek 465 series fits the bill nicely. That's what I use anyway.Is this the Tek AS465 or the Tektronix 465 then? Since the Tektronix 465 seems way too old? No pun intended here.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2016, 04:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: ChrisG on November 28, 2016, 04:18:10 pmWay too old for what? If it works, does the job, and is cheap, then how is the age relevant?BTW, it would be easier if you started creating your post by using the "quote" button above the message.

author: ChrisG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 01:06:42 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 28, 2016, 04:45:27 pmOkay. I got the message on that. Thank you :-)

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:42:44 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 27, 2016, 03:17:33 pmI am new, sorry for this question, gut what is hFe? I simple $5 multimeter allows you to match transistors? I have no clue how to match transistors, but if it is simple to do this really appeals to me -- love to save money! I suppose I should read up on matching transistors.. and this hFe.

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on February 23, 2017, 09:42:44 pmIn simple terms, it is the gain (amplification factor) of the transistor. Cheap multimeters often have a "transistor tester" built in to check this.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:24:19 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on February 23, 2017, 09:42:44 pmTransistor (HFE = gain) measurement was important many decades ago when transistors were still relatively expensive and were used a lot more in discrete circuits. But these days there is very little need for it when you can buy transistor assortment packs for a few bucks delivered.http://www.ebay.com/itm/170pcs-17-value-Bipolar-Transistor-TO-92-NPN-PNP-Assortment-Kit-Set-TW-/151767759271

author: akos_nemeth
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 12:19:26 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on February 23, 2017, 09:42:44 pmHi Jennifer,The ca3096 (trough hole version) can be found in ebay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=ca3096+&_sacat=0). In one of the lab exercises the book wants you to build an operational amplifier from discrete transistors, and for temperature stability the transistors needs to be on the same silicon die.Ákos

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 01:12:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 23, 2017, 10:24:19 pmThanks I just bought that assortment of 17 different types. I had only bought a few different kinds prior: 3904, 3906, 2n5457, mpf102, pn4391. What a deal at 2 cents a piece!Just started an "Electronics Inventory" spreadsheet on my computer the other day. To keep track of orders, how many I have in stock for projects and price along with a link where I purchased them. To not have this list, it seems like things would become disorganized in very short order. Every time I use one for a project, I"ll deduct from my inventory spreadsheet. I am sure others here do this as well and probably even use specialized applications just for this purpose heh -- but the spreadsheet seems to work fine.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 01:26:05 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 12, 2016, 11:37:43 pmHrm I bought some MB-102 breadboards for like $2 each from chinaWorking fineIf you have a 3D printer, I really like this tool. I use it. Breadboard Spring Vise:http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:957376

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 01:31:33 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on February 24, 2017, 01:12:08 amThere are some that do - and there are some that don't.It takes easy access to your inventory system, plus a certain discipline in order to keep your records accurate. If you can do that, then all power to you. I know I can't.It hasn't caused me any major difficulties - which is why I probably haven't felt inspired to try.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 06:15:16 pm
content: Interesting thread. I did the 1989 version of this course.Watch out for cheap Chinese breadboards. I'd only go near Global Spec and 3M ones and I'd rather solder a prototype up if I can. I may check bias conditions on a solderless board but that is it. You can spend hours scratching your head and find out it's a dodgy contact.As for inventory I just chuck all my shit in a box. I've got a Jim Williams going at the moment though. I should post a picture but I'm too ashamed.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 07:32:15 pm
content: Quote from: JenniferG on February 24, 2017, 01:26:05 amI'd like to find breadboards like these but with the letters right side up. Notice in your second pic you have the letters right side up but then the busses are upside down and labeled opposite the polarity on the YuRobot power supply.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 07:41:59 pm
content: Ugh, don't go to digikey and click on the bom lists to see what's in them or how much they'll cost... it willallget added to your cart! This wouldn't be a big deal if digikey had a single action to empty the cart, but alas I couldn't find one and ended up deleting them one by one...(In hindsight, one method might be to save it to a project, then delete the project? I typically use Mouser and only go DigiKey or Arrow when I need something Mouser doesn't carry or is out of stock on.)

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 10:22:48 pm
content: You can save the cart to a named saved cart (in 'My Digikey') and then delete the whole cart

author: Roman K
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2017, 07:24:58 am
content: Hi all,I just bought this book together with the TAOE and am just about to order the parts. Really looking forward to start with the experimentsHowever the Bom does not state the quantity of parts?I have searched around on the net but cant find the quantity required for each part anywhere??Is it just one of each part required??Many thanks for any input on this

author: Roman K
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 07:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 27, 2016, 10:38:18 pmThe 1N5294 is a DO-35 and the J310 is a TO-92. Could you please explain how to ad the series resistor for a newbie?Thanks

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 09:39:50 am
content: I just bought this book to have a scan through as I'm thinking about writing another one.You don't explicitly need them by the looks. They are used to provide a tail current for a differential amplifier. It says you can use a BJT current source (sink) instead which it teaches you how to build earlier. I would do that and just not buy them.As for the other question, the quantity of parts appears to be undefined! Ergo you will have to read the labs and infer how many.I'm not really enamoured with this book. There's a huge amount of errata, silly mistakes and obscure stuff required. Plus it feels rushed and rambling on some areas. Not to mention magic knowledge like film canisters full of mystery components and special breadboards that don't exist in the real world.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2017, 10:38:08 am
content: Quote from: MrSlack on March 27, 2016, 10:38:18 pmFYI, I learned a trick on here, don't rememebr who said it: take flat-jaw pliers and twist the leads on a TO-220 package by 90 degrees. Then they will go into a breadboard easily, without causing damage.

author: goethert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 08:46:05 pm
content: how do you guys organize the components from digikey? I got the package like thisSent from my LON-L29 using Tapatalk

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 09:29:56 pm
content: Bags of bags stored in boxes.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 10:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 25, 2017, 09:29:56 pmNumber the boxes. Keep them in order. Make sure to have an excel spreadsheet or something you can search by part # so you can find the box or bin. I like these for discrete parts:https://www.zoro.com/akro-mils-drawer-bin-cabinet-6-38-in-d-20-in-w-10164/i/G2213477

author: nn_in
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 05:57:14 am
content: I have books : 2Ed AoE and supporting lab book "students manual for AoE" .Can i buy the lab book "3rd Ed Learning AoE" and build labs without buying the 3ed of AoE ?Thanks

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 06:12:39 am
content: Yes you can. 3e Learning book is standalone.

author: nn_in
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 06:24:40 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 06, 2017, 06:12:39 amThank you for the response . Thats good to know. The 3ed Learning AoE lab manual preview on AoE website seems to have a more detailed approach.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 06:29:53 am
content: It does indeed. I've got both copies here and the 3rd edition is much better content-wise. Beware when you get to the digital section, it requires a lot of expensive hardware suddenly.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 12:44:25 pm
content: Quote from: JoeN on September 25, 2017, 10:35:31 pmJust organising the boxes properly can be enough. Have a box marked on the outside with the types of components inside, then have a consistent hierarchy on the inside. Having a separate Excel sheet invites two situations not agreeing with each other.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 02:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: Roman K on August 13, 2017, 07:24:58 amThe DigiKey shopping lists may help:https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/edu/harvard-lab-kitFor obvious reasons, the quantity varies wildly. Lots of resistors and transistors, not so many switches...

author: goethert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 02:52:16 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 06, 2017, 02:14:27 pmI just ordered a couple of weeks ago. yes, you can check at digikey for quality. one thing to remind: two small items were out of stock and they shipped separately. shipping fee is high if you agree to ship separately. item is $0.89, and shipping fee is $8.99Sent from my LON-L29 using Tapatalk

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2017, 03:56:25 pm
content: Quote from: goethert on October 06, 2017, 02:52:16 pmI would leave the 2 items for a future order if I didn't need them quickly. Compared to the cost of the kit of parts, shipping is insignificant.

author: jgalak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 12:22:05 am
content: I really wish the BOM listed what labs which part is for.I've just ordered the analog items, since I don't want to spend the money right now for both, plus I feel my analog skills need the exercise more than my digital skills. Between DigiKey, Mouser, and eBay, I managed to find everything. My only question is on the Proto-Advantage items. Which ones are for the analog portion? I'm assuming it's the 2 audio amplifiers ("LAoE Low Voltage Audio Power Amplifier" and "LAoE Switching Audio Amplifier"), but a short skim didn't reveal this info. Can anyone confirm?Thanks.

author: jgalak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 12:26:14 am
content: Oh, and one other question: It looks like a signal generator/function generator is needed. Just how much capability is necessary? I have an old Elenco kit-built one, that will do sine, square, and saw-tooth to 100kHz. Will that be enough, or do I need to invest in something more capable?A better one is on the "to buy" list anyway, but I'd rather not spend the money right now if I don't have to.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 02:10:20 am
content: Use what you have until you can't.Your Elenco 100 kHz signal generator will probably be sufficient for all audio and low frequency stuff. I haven't done all of the experiments but the suggested prototype platform (Proto-Board PB503) has only a 100 kHz signal generator. Actually, it is switchable 0-100 Hz and 0-100 kHz - not a big deal one way or the other. It is no better than your Elenco.One way to do the shopping is to check about 2 weeks worth of experiments beyond your current project and make sure you have everything for the upcoming work.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 09:11:58 am
content: You will need two function generators to do the common and differential mode stuff. A cheap Chinese kit will do for the second one. The main function generator you will need a pretty standard 2MHz one that does sine, square, triangle waves. 100KHz won’t cut it unfortunately.

author: mavu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 10:54:02 am
content: Does anyone know a supplier in europe who has such a convenient shopping list for the book?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 11:14:20 am
content: I’d recommend not buying it all in one go either. The list is pretty bad. It’s better to find a reliable supplier (suggest Farnell) and buy what you need on demand for say two or three labs at a time.If you don’t make it through the book or they have missed something then it’s better for you then plus it forces you to read each lab and think about what you need.A couple of labs use unspecified parts which you have to reverse engineer for example. These are listed in the errata instead of the shopping lists for some reason.Also don’t proceed too fast. Spend a week on each chapter and use the AoE references and do all the questions properly. I have the text here so will help anyone if they need it.

author: mavu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 12:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 09, 2017, 11:14:20 amThanks, that is very sound advice.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 08:55:36 pm
content: I'd like to suggest shopping for assortments of components on eBay. For example, 20 each of 64 values of 1/4 resistors for US$5. That's less than 1/2 cent each. Mylar caps for 4 cents.I mention this because I went though the ordeal of ordering quantity 100 of a full set of 5% values. Giant hassle. I came across good assortments of transistors and other components quite by accident while browsing for other things. I'd never even thought about looking on eBay for such things.I didn't get the 3rd ed lab manual when I bought the new AoE. I've got the 2nd ed though and looking at it, aside from certain ICs I'd expect that the choice of parts is pretty generic. If you can't perform a lab with a substitute part it will be very educational.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 12:59:16 am
content: I wouldn't bother with ebay. Tayda Electronics sell stuff that isn't hooky for about the same prices.

author: jgalak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 01:24:28 pm
content: Not familiar with Tayda, but most of the parts came from Digikey/Mouser. The only things I went to eBay from are a few discontinued and/or long lead time parts - things like the CA3096 bipolar array and the E-701 current regulator diode. One other JFET, too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 02:44:41 pm
content: You don't need the constant current diodes really. That's a hang back by the authors from the original version of the book (The one I did many years ago). I couldn't get them then so I just build BJT current sinks. They actually give instructions on how to build BJT current sinks if you choose not to use one in the new book. The old one they don't! You can make your own ones with any old JFET and some resistors if you fancy it though.CA3096 is a marvellous IC and I wish they didn't discontinue it. I have a whole tube I bought when I heard Intersil were pulling it. I use them for a lot of things (have built log amps, RF amps etc with them). The HFA3096 that is recommended as a replacement isn't that suitable. It has a transition frequency of something ridiculous like 4GHz and the Vce(max) is a little low for bipolar 15v supplies so it risks VHF oscillation and letting the smoke out.

author: jgalak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 03:51:14 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 11, 2017, 02:44:41 pmIt was $7 (with shipping) for a pair. Not a big deal to have to play with. But yeah, I may try the alternate ones as well - current sinks/sources is one of the topics I don't understand real well - I can follow the math, but they aren't yet making intuitive sense to me. So more variations on the theme is a good thing.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 04:24:48 pm
content: Good idea. Make sure you get a full understanding of current sources before you proceed to amplifiers or it won't make sense.You need to build a couple to get used to the idea. Stray away from the book if you need to. This is a great video on the matter from forum use w2aew which covers different forms and applications including the current source diode (which is actually just a JFET with gate and source connected together really, then binned according to approximate current sinking amount).If I'm honest, if w2aew wrote a book, it'd probably replace LTAoE as the canonical place to go for tutorials.

author: jgalak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 05:27:05 pm
content: Yup, I've been going through w2aew videos, they've helped quite a bit. And yes, I "stray" all the time - reading through AoE, I've gone to the Khan academy videos to better explain some of the AC math, and to allaboutcircuits.com for a few things, etc. Having lots of different options is great!

author: Tim T
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2018, 10:53:03 pm
content: FYI that Digikey has just obsoleted the TI LF411CN/NOPB which leaves a single 8DIP 411 op amp in their inventory (LF411CP) that can be purchased in small quantity.tim

author: Chuki
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 09:24:06 pm
content: Would print that on a T-shirtQuote from: MrSlack on March 28, 2016, 08:14:42 am

author: Chuki
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 09:27:40 pm
content: The second good idea for T-shirt print for a 1-minute reading. Thanks.If I blow up stuff, I tend to swap out the blown up thing and then see if it blows up again. You'd be surprised how many times it doesn't.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 01:11:22 am
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on March 27, 2016, 11:45:13 pm00:25 is late now? Okay.

author: Mattjd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 10:29:27 pm
content: so does that digikey offer come sorted by chapter at least? I'm thinking of buying the book but I dont want to spend $300 up front on all the parts, I'd rather buy the parts as Im doing the chapters.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 11:38:51 pm
content: Quote from: Mattjd on November 23, 2018, 10:29:27 pmI wouldn't think so. I would expect to receive identical components in a clear plastic envelope with a label. Just like the other parts I receive from DigiKey. The key to this is that there isn't a single part number for the kit but rather a long shopping list added to the cart. I would expect to see as many envelopes as lines in the shopping cart.You would need to look ahead to order parts. Maybe do 3 or 4 chapters at a time. If you don't, shipping and time lag will become an issue.Also, some of the more expensive parts may be for experiments you intend to pencil whip. Some of the digital examples are trivial and might just be glossed over. Especially if they use parts that only apply to that particular experiment.It also makes sense to buy resistor, capacitor and transistor kits rather than individual values/types.https://www.jameco.com/z/00081832-540-Piece-1-4-Watt-5-Carbon-Film-Resistor-Component-Kit_81832.htmlJameco has kits for multiple wattage resistor, several types of capacitors, transistors and so on. I like these kits because they come in a storage box. I refill individual values with 100 pc lots from DigiKey. Obviously, there are other ways to build up stock.For example, you can overbuy when you order from DigiKey.You really can't be in the game without at least some stock-on-hand.

author: gorillamotors
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 12:01:46 pm
content: I was thinking about getting this book along with the lab experiment book. Is it a good hobbyist read or the typical textbook read? Is it worthwhile getting them?Jim

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 12:48:39 pm
content: The main book is a reference book but quite informally written and full of thought exercises.The lab manual is a tutorial. Ok for hobbyist.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 07:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: gorillamotors on March 01, 2019, 12:01:46 pmThe book is an offshoot of teaching electronics at Harvard. Read the description for the "Student Manual..." a predecessor to "Learning ...".https://www.amazon.com/Art-Electronics-Student-Manual/dp/0521377099Sometimes I really wonder if these are the best way, or even a good way, to learn electronics at a hobby level. I have both the text and the manual. Both of these volumes have as a goal reducing the emphasis on math and I think that's enviable objective.The other day I bought "Getting Started in Electronics" by Forrest Mims - it is a good introduction to the theory of electronics. He has an entire series of books that are worth perusing. They are more focused on a single topic than "Getting ...". Do a Google search for his books and see if anything piques your interest.Check out Dave's Fundamental Fridays videos. He has an great video on op amps. Don't forget W2AEW's videos, they are excellent.Find a project, learn enough to build it and just have fun.The experiments in "Learning ..." are graduated from beginning to some level and you almost feel compelled to work through all of them, in sequence. They may not be in an order that suits your project building needs. They are probably sequenced for a Harvard level course in basic electronics.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 07:58:58 pm
content: Have to agree with you there actually.There was an excellent format by ARRL with their hands on radio series. An example:https://www.qsl.net/kl7jef/Experiment%203-Basic%20Operational%20Amplifiers.pdfhttps://www.qsl.net/kl7jef/Experiment%204-Active%20Filters.pdfMix that with w2aew goodness and I reckon that would be a killer.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 08:18:31 pm
content: Now, if they would just spend more time on integrators. My singular application for op amps is analog computing. I don't know about the others on this forum but I struggled with differential equations back in the early '70s (slide rules, not MATLAB). It is so much more fun to take some of the classic forms and plug them into an analog computer and watch the scope.I really like their presentations of op amp circuits using Kirchhoff's Current Law. It really makes sense!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 09:12:32 pm
content: Yes. I love analogue computing just as something to do.Now you see that's where TAOE does pretty well. Back in the early 90s I did an EE degree and it was all differential equations and shit. It didn't go in and I forgot it. So when doing a refresher recently, TAOE suggests you model the integrator as a current source with the input voltage and the input resistor charging a capacitor. Again using KCL at the inverting input. This fits neatly in C = I * dV/dT. You just work out what your dV and dT needs to be (easy enough) and then change C until I is reasonable, then pick a resistor. Done!This scales up pretty well... creation of mine recently, which I owe TOAE for really. The entire thing is lifted from the text with some finger in the air calculations.LTspice prototype:Works there:Breadboard build:Bingo!https://youtu.be/xl61gMaxmMQ

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 03:20:37 am
content: One I built and one I bought (actually bought 2) - see attachedThe first is from a project by Dr. Vogel:http://www.analogmuseum.org/library/vogel_ar_beschreibung.pdfhttp://www.analogmuseum.org/english/homebrew/vogel/At first I thought the Vogel machine would be pretty limited but then I realized that most equations of motion only involve the 2d derivative (acceleration) so for many applications, including Predator-Prey (Lotka–Volterra Equations) the computer is fine.I have spent quite a bit of time playing with DEs over the last year. My grandson will soon be taking the class so I better be at the top of my game.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 08:33:26 am
content: Oh that’s a bit sexy that is. Will read into that when I get some time today.I nearly bought a heathkit analogue computer a few years back. Something I regret not doing.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 01:10:44 pm
content: @bd139 - the same experience from early 80ties. With a pocket computer (PC1251) in my pocket I had to mess with an analog computer during the first semester of my EE studies (solving diff eqs).I wish I had the gear in my collection today!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 04:43:17 pm
content: My experience was around '72 or so. I graduated in '73 so things like calculators were only a dream.That Vogel implementation is a very nice analog computer. It has limited resources but it does have a multiplier, a couple of integrators, an inverter, three summers along with a sin() and saw() function generator. It doesn't have Repeat Cycle so it works best with a scope that has one-shot capability like a modern DSO. It is just about perfect for describing second order ordinary differential equations and that covers a lot of territory.As a demonstration unit, it's very nice.

author: Selectech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 03:17:39 pm
content: Spent a lot of time with the Compdyna machines in '73 to '75. We had a bunch of them in our university engineering control systems lab. Lots of fun experimenting with various equations and setups. We also had an xy pplotter that we'd hook up to plot out responses.It was an interesting alternative to digital computing. At the time we were using APL & Fortran to do other engineering problem sets.In '74 I got an HP35, which I still have and it still runs.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 05:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: Selectech on March 03, 2019, 03:17:39 pmWas one machine enough to model a control system or did you wind up ganging two or more machines? I bought two machines hoping that I would have enough computing elements. My grandson will be taking a control systems class at some point, probably in the next couple of years and I would like to have an adequate analog computer for the class. There's just something about 'seeing' a system of equations in real life.I have been thinking about extending the Vogel design to a dozen op amps which could be used as integrators, summers or inverters. Just a plugging option.QuoteI often use my Analog Discovery 2 instead of the scope. This gives me a nice 27" display with screen capture and print.QuoteI was doing a lot of my homework on an IBM1130 computer with FORTRAN. We had APL but I never got around to using it. Both of the machines had CalComp 1627 plotters.I bought an HP45 shortly after they were introduced in '73. It cost about $395 according to a Wiki although I have forgotten. Apparently, that is equivalent to $2229 in 2008.I have a bunch of graphing calculators but I actually use my HP 48GX every day.

author: MangoAutomata
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 23, 2023, 09:06:16 pm
content: I recently bought the book, and have painstakingly gone through all the parts mentioned on the available parts lists. For most parts there's an alternative, or you can get old stock from eBay, or some other workaround.However, the 74LS503 chips are a problem. No longer manufactured, no alternatives, and looks to only be available in batches of ~20 from places with leftover stock, but can be recreated with a couple of programmable chips.This link explains how to use ATF750C chips to emulate the 74LS503 chips:http://atomoptics.uoregon.edu/~dsteck/teaching/74503/You can get the blank chips at DigiKey:https://www.digikey.co.za/en/products/detail/microchip-technology/ATF750C-10PU/1008432I've attached the CUPL, sim and JEDEC files on that link, in case it dies. The JEDEC are the files to burn the chips, though I've been unable to find out what kind of programmer you need. (I'd be interested if anyone figures out how to do this.)Luckily, it looks like DigiKey also has a service to program chips for you:QuoteI'll attach my updated list once I've ordered all the parts.