Is it even theoretically possible to organize test leads and scope probes - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 12:55:43 am
content: I have never seen this done, and I have never successfully done it myself.If you have a few dozen test leads (alligator clips, jumper hooks, whatever)Lets throw in some BNC cables and various banana plug ended wires tooAnd you have half a dozen scope probes...Is there a way to keep thema) organized so you can choose any one of them at any time and retrieve it without having to drop a bunch of the other onesb) keep it away from your work when it not in usedc) dont create an ugly rats nest hanging on a wallHas it been done?? I am NOT living with a bunch of wires hanging on a wall where they all fall off every time I pick one out. Or just leaving a rats nest of scope probes and jumper leads on my workstation because its no better or worse than hanging them up

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 01:38:52 am
content: Short answer: No.There must be a 2nd law of thermodynamics corollary which prevents that.Now seriously:I was fortunate enough to have met in person the late Bob Pease and his office/workbench.You may have seen photos. They were a legendary, unmitigated mess. But nothing prepares you to actually see it personally.That did not prevent Bob Pease from arguably becoming one of the best analog engineers ever.I never met Jim Williams in person, again an electronics legend. But a friend did, and described a similar mayhem to what I witnessed with Bob.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 01:42:29 am
content: Quote from: cur8xgo on June 28, 2019, 12:55:43 amNo. I tried for the last 50 years.What does work is giving up all hope of ever managing your test cables ... I find it's easier after that.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 01:44:35 am
content: I think the probability of test leads tangling is N squared over 2, where N equals the number of pieces of test equipment that you have. Even things like my Neon AC outlet tester which only has one lead gets tangled.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 01:55:55 am
content: https://www.google.com/search?q=pomona+test+lead+holder&source=lnms&tbm=isch

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 01:57:12 am
content: yes its theoritically and "practically" possible. one way is put each one of them in zip lock clear plastic, have them labelled each such as "alligator to banana", "alligator to alligator" etc, arrange them nicely in a drawer. when you want it, just flip them read the label and pull the one you want. if finish work, put them again in plastic and drawer. better if they are alphabetically sorted or grouped nicely, all cable with alligator in one place, all bananas in one place. much like files/books/papers in a drawer/rack in a library, hospital or forensic office or a stock warehouse. i still prefer dangling and falling down wires experience

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 02:25:22 am
content: I want to thank you all for your posts on this agonizing subject. Only today I was trying to find a cable or two. I have them hanging on perhaps ten hooks plus the scopemobile drawer and some stay attached to equipment. Add to all your stuff the IEC cables I frequently need to energize gear that uses that connector. I also have two-wire power cords with clips for quick tests of stuff like fans.Every few months I bang in another nail or screw in another screw or hook in hopes that the congestion will abate. I only succeed in masking other items on the shelves. The BNC cables can be a few inches or 25 feet in length.So let's push that subject aside and talk about coaxial adapters. BNC to banana to clips to type N or PL-259, and all other permutations of these and others. And T- or Y- types. There are the 'barrel' double females and their gender opposites. Of course SMA and TNC and RCA and Motorola and even F types. Some with 50 Ohm loads. Then there are the 75 Ohm types. Shielded cables for audio work. Some phone plugs, both 2- and 3- circuit. Not to speak of XLR. Double banana, affectionately called GR plugs. I even have some of those double switchboard cables with brown cloth insulation. Some probe sets from long lost meters. Old fashioned test leads, some with those long probe ends, some red and some black.Did you know that a BNC will plug into a type N of the appropriate sex?Then there are the wall transformers.I had better stop before I start collecting stamps instead.

author: Tj138waterboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 02:31:25 am
content: Going to homebrew that pamona design with pallet board and notch with skillsaw. I seen one on etsy or similar site seemed to work well for all manner of test leads.

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 03:04:26 am
content: Quote from: SparkyFX on June 28, 2019, 01:55:55 amya I have that and thats the problem..ugly wall monster and every time you take a cable off another one falls off..$15 for a piece of stamped sheet metal

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 03:05:22 am
content: crowdfunding anyone? why hasnt someone made the perfect solution for this

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 03:10:57 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on June 28, 2019, 01:44:35 amReading the raw, naked, visceral accounts of trying to manage test cables by my fellow posters on this forum is making my eyes bleed!

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 03:39:25 am
content: I'm going to make this thing suffer before I send it to its destructionThis isnt even half of all the test leads I have..I dread having to use this thing for any reason. Touch it and a cable falls off.

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 03:42:13 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 28, 2019, 01:38:52 amWell I am not Bob Pease or Williams so I need the organization to maintain a work flow....so sad what happened to those two. Pease getting into a fatal car accident on the way back from Williams funeral. What kind of awful tragedy is that

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:22:34 am
content: While the Pomona rack is flawed, it does inspire a better design. How about a flip-over tab on each space that prevents cables from falling off?Also the width of the slot needs to be tweaked or, perhaps, several slot widths.A major problem is that you don't know what's on the ends and you don't know how long the cable is. So you grab a handful of dangling ends and poke through to see if what you want is there. Once you find it, does it have what you want on the other end?I bought a box full of coaxial adapters at a swap meet. They don't even begin to solve these interconnection issues.Has anyone been successful at installation of a BNC connector on to a cable? Not I. If it even makes connection without shorting it still pulls out of the shell. I tried following the printed instructions, probably written by someone who has never done it. How about the expensive crimpers? I am not optimistic. Plus, they seem to be specific for a single type connector.We can buy a package of ten BNC male plugs on ebay for very little. Has anyone had good luck with these?

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:46:59 am
content: It is, but only in the degenerate and trivial cases of 0 and 1 cables.I'm starting to put them in left-over Digi-Key zip bags. It really helps with keeping them from getting tangled, and it's easy to sort and select them out. It seems to be reasonable space efficient, about the same as a bunch of cables thrown in a box.

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:50:02 am
content: Quote from: bob91343 on June 28, 2019, 04:22:34 amThe cables fall off because they are in series..if the one you want isn't at the very front, you have to pull off the ones in front of it and that leads to at least one falling off. Or since they are all dangling and in close proximity it just tends to pull off one or more of the ones next to it.And ya like you say, you have to look really hard to figure out what cable is what..they are all dangling around and tracing which connector ends belong to which wires is hopeless.A new system is needed. Maybe we can figure out if anyone has solved this by looking at pics from well organized labs

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 05:08:31 am
content: Okay I have an idea...Imagine a test lead organizer that has a slot for EACH END of the cable, and a spring loaded mechanism which pulls the cable tight (gently)Now limit it to one test lead per slot, and make it so each spring loaded slot acts independently so it can auto adjust to various lead lengths.Its kind of like a guitar, with test leads as the strings, under much less tension, at different lengths, and with very easy removal and installation.The thing is, you don't want to have to mount the top slot 5 feet up and have this spring loaded slot down near the ground..thats very cumbersomeSo maybe you pack things so this contraption floats all at 5 feet somehow and forms a U or somethingDamn I think that will workSee attached pic.So one side has a "combo" where all the slots are fixed in position, like the pomona.Then you have a pivot of some kind a couple feet away that you wrap the test lead around..on its way to:A set of spring loaded MOVABLE slots (one per test lead), that pull the test lead taut (gently)You can repackage this and be clever to make it cheap and simple and take up the least amount of space.But I think it solves alot of problems:-1 test lead per slot means no confusion, you can instantly see both ends and know what each is-Since its 1 test lead per slot, its not in "series" anymore..you only have to remove the one you want-Spring loaded taut means no more tangled cables or snags, nothing falling out-Spring loaded and taut means it looks much nicer than a wall monster rats nest. Still looks like an engineering item which is fine-Loading and unloading fast and one-handed. Snag head, pull around slotted pivot (has guides too), lock head into spring loaded hook, release hand, satisfying twang as lead pulled taut (gently)EDIT: I think you could rolls this into a tube so each hook/pivot/hook set is on the cicumference and you can spin the tube to get the one you want..takes up less space possibly so you can mount it under a shelf on your workstation, or vertically on a wall

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 05:23:23 am
content: Quote from: bob91343 on June 28, 2019, 04:22:34 amI use Canare brand BNC with their crimper and stripper and haven't managed to botch a connection yet, they always come out perfect looking like they are factory made.Their crimper and dies aren't completely ridiculously priced either.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 05:49:42 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 28, 2019, 01:57:12 amI have done this for my mass storage of various leads and cables - and some of those that get used often enough to keep close by.QuoteNot quite there yetQuoteDon't think I'll ever getthatwell organised.QuoteThat's the theory!QuoteHmmm... The best I've done is a rough grouping for my bulk storage - which has nothing alphabetical associated with it.QuoteI'm leaning towards setting up something so I can experience this joy for myself.Quote from: Tomorokoshi on June 28, 2019, 04:46:59 amWhich is not the likely profile for members here.QuoteYes, great for preventing tangles and easy sorting. My plugpacks are also in ziplock bags.

author: Dundarave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 06:06:55 am
content: Maybe something similar to a dry-cleaners clothes storage mechanism: the test leads would hang from an endless chain with clips, each holding a single lead, around a pair of sprockets a meter apart and fastened to the wall. Wouldn’t take up much more space than a standard rack, and could be modified to support a third or even 4th row... Just spin the chain and select the lead.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 11:45:39 am
content: Quote from: cur8xgo on June 28, 2019, 04:50:02 amThis is kind of an issue, but only when you do not sort the cables by type/color and slot. If i need a 4mm banana, they are all the same slot, so the one i want will always be the first one.It is helpful to shake them a bit while pulling out to untangle them.I´ve seen other types of holding systems, but they are usually one system per holder only, which is not the point here.Maybe something likethese toolholders, one on the top, another one or two (to accomodate different lengths) below might be able to stretch your cables as you want them as well, although it think it´s not worth it as it requires two operations instead of one to get this one cable.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 01:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: cur8xgo on June 28, 2019, 03:42:13 amI remember reading the news in utter shock. A terrible, terrible loss.At least they must now be in analog heaven. Jim with hundreds of analog scopes, and Bob with several vintages of pristine VW Beetles. Surrounded by every opamp ever made (including the Philbrick K2-W) properly stored in convenient drawers.

author: ArthurDent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:09:36 pm
content: I still have a problem keeping the power cords, cables, and leads, that I'm currently using neat.

author: mdszy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: cur8xgo on June 28, 2019, 03:39:25 amBuddy, I hate to break it to you, but you're using that thing ENTIRELY wrong.We have them at my campus and they keep cables nice and organized, when you use them right...You're not supposed to coil the cables over it like that. You're supposed to slide them on STRAIGHT and let them hang by a BNC connector or whatever the larger end of the cable is.Then, if you want one near the back, you hold them all, slide them all off, grab the one you want, and slide the rest back on.It's really not bad if you use it correctly. See attached.

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: mdszy on June 28, 2019, 04:24:32 pmThe reason they are coiled over is because I keep it at desk-height so I can get to it to it while I'm working, and if I dont double them up the cable length over about 4 feet will be on the ground.Even you use it as you show they are still in series so getting what you want would be a random event and you'd have to unload anything in front, and it would still be difficult to determine what cable end at the top belongs to which at the bottom, and would require them to be 6 feet off the ground so the cables arent touching the floor.If you are in a environment where you are standing, have few enough cables or identical enough cables to where you can have 1 slot per type, then the pomona comb would be good (like a production test setup where you are standing and doing the same thing over and over). Although still very expensive at $15 each although maybe there are cheaper versions.If you are sitting at a workstation actively prototyping, debugging, or doing something unpredictable, and have a very wide assortment of test leads that you need to exchange out ever few minutes as you are doing different things, the pomona comb doesnt work, in my experience anyway

author: mdszy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: cur8xgo on June 28, 2019, 04:39:39 pmOkay, that is fair. I apologize.At my university, these hang at about head-height between workbenches so you can get up, follow each end of the cable until you find what you need and then it's pretty quick to pull the row off, take what you need and slot the rest back. But again, it's this easy because they're high up and you're standing when you do it.I can see how this would be a problem for a sitting position or above a desk.I just ordered one of these, and plan to use it in a standing position. I don't mind if I have to get up to choose cables, and it will help to keep the area around my workbench less busy.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 11:51:26 pm
content: Here's my solution so far. Just the usual cable comb hanger thing, probably Pomona brand from Digikey.I have another one to put somewhere once I find a place for it. I'm going to have to split the bunch so one holder is BNC, the other is Banana jacks. I'm always making just one more lead in the mddle of a project...

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 06:22:31 pm
content: No, however lead carts help.Lead cart #1

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 09:54:02 pm
content: no comments required

author: cur8xgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 10:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on July 01, 2019, 09:54:02 pmThe only way I can think of that giant pile of parts and wires being useful is if every part location is mirrored in your neurons...which I suppose is possible in some weird way

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2019, 12:45:34 pm
content: For all banana plugs, just drill a lot of 4.0mm holes in a block of wood, install it high enough. Now you just "plug in" the cables! Friction keep them plugged in, gravity keeps them perfectly straight.Use a big enough plate, with large enough number of holes. This is as close to perfection as it can get.This only works for anything that has a simple plug that can be plugged in a hole. For BNC, alligator clips, etc., the problem still exists. But getting rid half of the N cables, the N^2 problem reduces by four times, and may become acceptable.