Bidding foolishly early on Ebay ...WHY ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 11:20:49 pm
content: Why ...oh why ...would you bid early and raise the price from 24.95 to $74 with almost 6 days left to go?Time left 5 days 18 hours 24 minsMember Id: MoneyToBurn4 US $74.00 Apr-20-16 10:57:36 PDTMember Id: MoneyToBurn3 US $73.00 Apr-21-16 15:03:05 PDTMember Id: MoneyToBurn2 US $67.00 Apr-20-16 12:46:52 PDTMember Id: MoneyToBurn1 US $65.00 Apr-20-16 11:08:26 PDTStarting Price US $24.95 Apr-20-16 10:38:01 PDT

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 11:50:50 pm
content: It used to be that a seller could delete/change an offering until bids had been placed. During that time, there was a benefit in freezing a seller's offer. I have not read the current TOS, which I sense may have evolved more to favor sellers with respect to changing and deleting offerings. So, that earlier reason may not still be valid.Another reason is the psychology of an auction. The opening price of often not met, so it gets lowered. Once there is a bid, the bidding often quickly surpasses the original opening price.Another reason is shill bidders trying to get a higher price.And finally, since eBay went to anonymous bidders instead of usernames, I will sometimes bid early just to get a feel for how the other bidders at that time are bidding. (With usernames, it was reasonably easy to get a feel for familiar names, since the items I typically bid on have a narrow appeal.). That is, some bidders always bid just a few dollars over the minimum, some (foolishly) bid closer to the items real worth early on.John

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 11:54:19 pm
content: If it is something I don't want to miss, I bid so I get more warnings / alerts pop up if I get outbid. Less likely to forget about it then. I have missed out on some really good gear because I forgot

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 11:59:30 pm
content: I will sometimes put in an early initial bid so that I can see how many watchers are on a particular item usingwww.watchcount.com. It'll give me a better idea on the competition later on during the auction process.If you enter the item number in the above website it'll display the number of watchers (normally hidden on the ebay page), but it needs at least 1 bid for it to work.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 12:11:42 am
content: IIRC, experience from th epast, so not sure if it applies as much today. If you start with a low or no reserve, you get a much cheaper advt cost, so you thensimply use shill bidding to get it to where you wanted it in the first place. There's all sorts of "tricks" used, but I do admit, this guy seems pretty open about whathe's doing.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:00:32 am
content: I've also seen the other problem where people bidsnipe at the last minute, with a really high bid to beat others.Goes like this:Member Id: BidSniper2 US $75.00 Apr-21-16 10:03:36 PDTMember Id: BidSniper1 US $71.63 Apr-21-16 10:03:34 PDTMember Id: NormalBidder US $15.20 Apr-20-16 12:46:52 PDT <- what the item is actually worthstarting price $5.00The two bid snipers pretend to be dead, so the seller relists the item and contacts the remaining bidder.Item sells for $10, as there is less competition.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:08:08 am
content: Forlegitimatebidding, it's this:Quote from: jpanhalt on April 21, 2016, 11:50:50 pm'Auction fever' can kick in and the psychology of 'missing out' jumps all over the sensible approach. It is worse when attending a live auction with inexperienced bidders.For non-legitimate bidding, there are a number of reasons.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:10:31 am
content: Maybe because some people think using sniping software is rather ungentlemanly, and prefer to simply stick their max bid in whenever and let the system do its thang...?I wish eBay would do something about sniping software - a simple way would be to have auctions end randomly up to X amount of minutes either side of the planned end time. Without knowing the exact second the listing ends, the snipers would be useless.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:20:36 am
content: Quote from: Delta on April 22, 2016, 01:10:31 amI used to snipe manually sitting in front of two computer with three windows open. One to watch, one with the "last bid" and one...juuust in case with the "desparate" bid. At least once I ended up outbidding myself. Back then, it was a skillI prefer sensible "Buy it now" or "Make Offer" so I don't have to wait 5+ days to "win".

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:28:49 am
content: I've used bid sniping software for one important use, it's when the item is hard to get, and I plan to reverse engineer it to make more.Even still, it's hard to justify buying some items, as $150 for something I could build for $50 just isn't right.But yeah, some people got nuts when they must have an item, more likely if the item is rare (or simply they think it is).

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:36:14 am
content: Quote from: Delta on April 22, 2016, 01:10:31 amThere are a number of ways to defeat sniping - one of which is to extend the auction by, say, 5 minutes when a bid placed after the scheduled finishing time.As far as sniping is concerned, that is simply a tactic to make use of the system so that a bidder doesn't pay any more than they need to. Change the system and the tactic will no longer work.Also, please consider, that the final price is NOT dependent on the winning bidder - but on the underbidder. Ebay's proxy bidding system will only apply as much of a bidder's entered amount as is necessary to beat the underbidder.If the underbidder just does 'nibble' bidding, the sniper is likely to get a bargain since the underbidder will either have no time to react or insufficient time to push the sniper up by any significant amount. This is the mentaility of bidding for a bargain and hoping for a win. I believe it is based in either not understanding or not trusting the proxy bidding mechanism. A sniper, however, will bid for a win and hope for a bargain.However, if the underbidder is another sniper, then the price is going to rocket in the final moments - something I have experienced on more than one occasion.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 02:16:38 am
content: I don't see anything wrong with bid sniping, and I _always_ use it for any ebay auction item I actually want.The reason is it lets you place a bid that is the maximum you are prepared to pay for the item, place it long before the end of auction, then just go on with your life. No emotional churn during the auction, no bidding wars that can make you lose objectivity, etc. You just get an email or site status afterwards that you won, or lost.Much more sensible than getting involved in real time bidding, imo.Everyone who gets their nose out of joint by being outbid by a sniper, just isn't thinking their bidding strategy and limits through rationally. What exactly are you upset about? That someone was willing to pay more? Or that you weren't game to actually front up with a bid that was truly what you would have paid?There's even precedent in the live auctions world - closed envelope bids, and auction by public tender.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 03:53:30 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on April 22, 2016, 03:44:19 amIf you are sniping manually then that is true, but not if he uses a sniping service.The advantage of a service is you get all the benefit of sniping without having to tie yourself down at the last moments of an auction - which sounds just like the sort of thing he likes.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 04:21:25 am
content: This Cornell blog post links to good papers and also explains concisely some of the factors at play:http://blogs.cornell.edu/info2040/2014/10/28/the-dominant-strategy-for-ebay-auction-bidding/Note that the optimal bidding strategy is dependent upon your information about the value of the item at hand. The more precise (and independent) your valuation of the item, the more "rational" it is for you to bid late and bid once at your maximum (true) valuation. Auction designs that "defeat" sniping by extending bidding times are likely trying to maximize revenue by taking advantage of behavioral features that increase the risk for someone to overbid. This method, taken to the extreme, is implemented as penny auctions (see the discussion of penny auction vs. gambling, "entertainment auctions", Swoopo, etc.).

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 04:52:00 am
content: That's odd, I believe ebay itself allows you to put a bid and a max bid at any time so it does the sniping for you. If someone bids more than your 1st bid and your maximum bid is higher, ebay will make the bid for you automatically for a dollar more or something like that, until your max bid is not enough to cover the current higher bid.It only shows the end back and forth so it looks like if the bidders involved overbid, but you can find the details of the automatic bidding which by default don't show.But it's been a while so maybe things have changed.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 05:12:42 am
content: What you are describing is eBay's Proxy Bidding process. It will continue to apply ever increasing amounts under your maximum bid to keep you ahead of other bidding. This means that your maximum bid can be chipped away at over time, pushing up the price.Sniping is placing a similar bid at the last possible moment,preventingsomeone else from seeing your bid and then trying to beat it.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 05:20:20 am
content: QuoteWell.... do it and you will lose. Unless your max bis is some overpriced amount, or the item is a used pair of shoes of two different sizes.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 05:28:04 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 22, 2016, 05:12:42 amYes! That!! Thank you

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:25:18 am
content: I guess it will depend when you place the bid with the max bid, of course I don't do it days in advance, five seconds before it ends has worked for me in the past, also doing some crafty cents on the max bid helps a lot

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:35:59 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on April 22, 2016, 06:25:18 am+1 on that. Most people will place bids to the nearest dollar. I usually make my final bid some obscure amount, but not before placing a few "dummy bids" in small increments so that hopefully the other person(s) assume that I'm only going to continue making only small increases. Then finally, I jam in my highest bid plus some random cents in the last final seconds and hope my browser doesn't timeout ;-)Just long enough to get my bid in, but not long enough for others to receive updated bidding amounts, put in their bid and click submit.Some call it nasty, but whatever gets the job done.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:46:31 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 22, 2016, 06:35:59 amI've had that work for me on more than one occasion.Some years ago, I sniped $162.67 for a 21" colour monitor. The bidding hadn't cracked $100 when I placed my snipe - but there were four of us who jumped in within the last 5 seconds. When my screen refreshed with my maximum bid amount still showing, I panicked wondering why it hadn't gone in. After checking the bid history, I found that, not only had it gone in, but that I had won - beating the underbidder by 67 cents.This was an example where snipe bidding proved beneficial to the seller. In fact, you only need two people who have submitted serious bids, such as two snipers, for that to happen.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:53:35 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 22, 2016, 06:46:31 amWinner winner, chicken dinner.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:54:42 am
content: One more example - it was a bit cheeky, but fun.Again, this was some time ago before eBay anonymised User Ids. You could see how your competitors bid on other auctions.I came across an item that was a "Will I or won't I" sort of purchase. So I checked the other bidding and found there was only one other bidder to worry about. When I looked up some of their previous bidding, I noticed they were a fan of multiples of $5. Since the bidding of this item was just over $5 and considering its true value, I guessed the other bidder had put in a $10 maximum bid. So I sniped with a $10.01 bid .... and won it by 1 cent.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 08:07:23 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on April 22, 2016, 01:25:19 am+1. The "local" eBay equivalent where I used to live worked that way, any bid within the last 5 minutes of an auction resets the counter to 5 minutes. No sniping possible, and an auction can end up lasting a couple of hours more depending on the players.I've participated in a few memorable ones, with much playing with odd bids in the cents range.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 08:31:46 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 22, 2016, 08:07:23 amThat's actually not a bad idea. I wonder why eBay haven't looked at this as an option for listings? They would be set to make more money out of it with their insane fees.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 08:43:19 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 22, 2016, 08:31:46 amAnd any sane person would give up bidding on ebay. I don't have a time for that crap and bidding wars.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 09:35:20 am
content: Quote from: wraper on April 22, 2016, 08:43:19 amI doubt the boycott would last long. If sellers would be making more money, they'd continue to list on ebay. The sheer selection would be enough to have the vast majority of people coming back regardless.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 12:52:30 pm
content: Yes on the using odd cents. Avoid even dollar amounts, but also common or even cents - in the US it is common for items to be prices at say $xx.49 or $xx.95 and a lot of people seem to subconsciously bid in those increments. The slightly more aware might round a 49 cents up to 50 so by bidding 53 cents you get past both groups.I've never used sniping software, but I've scored many bargains on ebay over the years. And had it work out very well in my favor when selling things. My biggest sale came from getting $80 for a mass produced model railroad car (so not rare) that still had the price sticker on where we paid $1.99 for it in about 1973.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:16:18 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on April 22, 2016, 03:44:19 amI couldn't understand what you meant, till Brumby pointed out you must have assumed I mean manual sniping.No, I usehttps://www.bidnapper.comThe first snipe service I used was bought out by ebay, Borged, and became horrible.When I first experimented with sniping I did it manually. Ha ha, the PC clock on screen, with spots of bluetak stuck on to mark the instant I had to click Bid. It worked, but I got sick of staying up till stupid hours to do it. Now I only stay up stupidly late for genuinely stupid reasons.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 01:52:12 pm
content: I guess I've never been THAT serious about it. I only manually snipe, and basically I key the max amount I am willing to pay, wait til there are 30 seconds left to go, click the Bid button, count off about 15 seconds in my head, and then confirm. If I in turn get sniped, it was from automated software because I don't leave enough time, and if I don't win for whatever reason it is because the price went above what I was willing to pay so it's off to the next one of the same. I can be very patient - it took me 3 years to acquire 4 HO scale model locomotives because I got the first one for under $40 and wasn't going to pay the $100 or so many others were trying to get for the same thing. Some I let go without even bidding as the bid went over $40 long before the end, others I bid on but was sniped, but eventually I had all 4 and paid no more than $40 for any of them. There's another model I just got that I've been hunting for about 4 years now, but most of the time they START at over $50. They aren't too common and so rarely come up on eBay, but I would follow every one that did. A couple of months ago I finally caught one where there appeared to be little interest and was able to win for under $30 as the only bidder - it seemed weird so before I bid I did check out the seller's feedback and examined the pictures carefully, no scam I could detect and sure enough I promptly received the item and it was exactly as pictured.More recently I picked up things I needed to complete my electronics bench - scope, power supply, and a couple of vintage Fluke multimeters, a 45 benchtop and an 8060 handheld. EBay has been very good to me over the years.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 02:12:19 pm
content: Quotewhile it may seem foolish from your perspective, it may make perfect sense from the bidder's or the seller's perspective.

author: Iwanushka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 05:26:46 pm
content: Manual sniping these days does not work, like 3sec till end I made bid +50usd and clicked ok after page refreshed listing said ended with +50usd bid than mine...wtf?So only option is using software, which I'm never going to use

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:33:48 pm
content: Quote from: Iwanushka on April 22, 2016, 05:26:46 pmPerhaps someone else also sniped with a $50 bid, and placed theirs a moment before yours went in. With equal bid amounts, the earlier bid takes precedence.-Pat

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 06:47:48 pm
content: Yup, there's such a thing as being too good at sniping. That's why I don't wait until the absolute last second.And still the whole "don't get caught up in auction fever" is the real key. I don't collect things, I buy things on eBay because they are things I want to use. I don't run a model railroad museum, I don't run a test equipment museum. So I don't need to win every auction I participate in - if there's something I MUST have, I'll either find an eBay store with a Buy It Now or shop elsewhere. There have been many auctions where I do bid relatively early - reasonable time of the day on the day the auction ends at a time I know I can't or won't be able to watch it end, for example. I've won some of them even. I just put in the maximum I am willing to pay, if that is already outbid, then no biggie, and it would have been a waste of time to try and snipe as there already was a bid in over my maximum. On such things I generally go to bed expecting not to win so it's a pleasant surprise for the ones I do win. In fact I think it was the Fluke 45 I won that way, it was set to end at something like 3am my local time on a weekday - sorry, I have to work, and staying up past 3am is not in the cards on a work day. My scope, on the other hand - it ended on a weekend afternoon, perfect, except I had someplace to be and I would be driving at the time the auction ended. So I handed my phone to my gf in the passenger seat and gave her a quick course in using the mobile eBay app and had her enter my bid in the last seconds - and won!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 23, 2016, 02:03:29 am
content: Some time ago, I was interested in getting a basic Ethernet cable tester and found an Asian seller who regularly put up these with a starting bid of 99 cents - shipping included, of course:They were put up so regularly, I set myself the task of getting one at the starting bid, when I saw a couple of them end without any bids.I didn't get manic about it, just had a look whenever the thought crossed my mind and put in a bid whenever I saw one come up. Since I had now made a commitment, Murphy's Law kicked in and every time I found a candidate, someone else outbid me. It was probably the third month when Murphy slipped up - and I got my tester for 99 cents.It wasn't really a waste of time - it was a bit of a game, which I enjoyed along the way ... and I got the item at the price I wanted to pay.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 11:22:45 am
content: There is this poor guy, for the last 3-4 days, he bids early, tries to keep himself the high bidder...then the last 5 minute stampede happens and he is out.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 12:18:20 pm
content: I never bid early and don't miss an auction with:http://www.gixen.com/index.phpIt places your bid at 5 seconds before the auction end and it is free.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 12:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on April 29, 2016, 11:22:45 amThat is not uncommon.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 11:55:56 pm
content: I guess gixen broke something. Their site just goes into an infinite meta refresh loop.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2016, 12:40:27 am
content: I only shop E-bay using buy it now and/or make offer. The whole bidding to win or lose just wore too thin for me over time. I'm not looking to compete but rather just to purchase something.