Question About How Getting Electrocuted Works - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 04:21:53 am
content: Recently I was talking to someone who told me years ago touched a dishwasher in a restaurant with one hand and something else with the other, and got electrocuted (probably a bad ground). She also claims she was stuck and couldn't release her hands.I understand the concept of touching the hot of an outlet with one hand, and touching something such as Earth ground with the other which would cause current to go through your body.Now, if I hold hot and nothing else, my body potential is 120V AC. I can hold that wire all day until I touch neutral or Earth ground, or someone touching Earth ground (or neutral) comes up and touches me; then we both get zapped.The things I began wondering is: over the years I've heard of people who touch their refrigerators and get a bad shock (probably because Earth ground was broken or they used a three to two prong adapter). If their bodies are not touching neutral or Earth ground, why would they get a shock?Maybe my interpretation of the story is wrong and they don't actually get shocked by their refrigerator, but I was curious: Can a person touch any voltage and not get electrocuted providing they are not touching neutral/ground?Also, why would she get stuck to the dishwasher? If voltage/current crosses zero every 8.3ms, then at some point you can pull off it (whereas DC remains constant and you can't pull away).Ignoring voltage would arc and/or go through the thin insulation on my shoes, could I touch 1,000,000 V and not feel a shock or would I get a serious shock due to my body being at a different potential, but I wouldn't get electrocuted?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 04:29:38 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 04:21:53 amHuman muscles do not have spring return like a standard electromechanical relay. Human muscles are more like 2-coil latching relays, with a spring action on both sides. The zero crossing merely provides a more amenable scenario for hand release, it does not guarantee it. If you pulse relay current On and Off in the same coil, a latching relay will stay on, just like your arm muscles. You need to apply current to the other coil to flip the relay, in human muscle terms, you need to electrocute the other muscle.A strong will and awareness is still required to send the necessary, and large enough, brain-to-muscle motor control signal to override the convulsions from mains electricity stimulus.Meanwhile, does this help?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 04:38:55 am
content: You only get electrocuted once

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 05:17:09 am
content: AFAIK 120VAC causes one to hold on, 240VAC will tend to throw a person, and the fall from say a ladder is an added complication. But I have not personally tested this, but can confirm that some low current 10kV pulses almost threw me out of a jet's doorway once.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 07:12:19 am
content: It doesn't take much miliamps to get a shock, so even if you have a very weak connection to earth you can still get a shock(due to the high voltages involved, kiloohms are enough). But yes if you really are well insulated with the correct shoes and not touching anything then you can't get a shock by only touching live.Yes DC is more likely to make you grab on and not be able to let go, but AC can do it too because 50/60 Hz is too fast for muscles and nerves to react. Go ahead and try wiggling your finger 60 times per second.The polarity also doesn't make a difference, current flow in either direction can trigger nerves. The reason you grab on is because the muscles that handle closing fingers are much bigger and stronger than the muscles that extend fingers, so as both of these muscle groups contract the stronger closing muscles win and overpower the others, so making you close your hand together.There is nothing about 120V making you grab and 220V throwing you. Both can do either. It it just that 220V can give you a stronger shock and i suppose that does make it more likely for other muscles in your body to contract and throw you off balance. Most injuries with electricity are actually physical damage of hitting something or falling, not the actual electricity. This is particularly dangerous when working on ladders since a good jolt can easily make you jump off a ladder. That is unless you weer unlucky enough to get stuck grabbing onto what is shocking you, that can definitely cook you to death, but this is rare as usually your arm will jump and move away.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 07:31:09 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 04:21:53 amSure. People work on live high voltage power lines all the time. There's lots of Youtube videos showing it. Sometimes they're working from bucket trucks, sometimes helicopters! There are various rules & procedures for different situations. I've seen conductive gloves to protect against burns from the arcs and shorting sticks to safely raise the worker and the helicopter to the same potential as the line. It's the same idea as a bird sitting on a high voltage line.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 07:40:17 am
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on March 17, 2025, 07:31:09 amNow I'm intrigued as to the average capacitance of a helicopter

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 07:50:11 am
content: Quote from: BradC on March 17, 2025, 07:40:17 amIf you watch the videos, there is a very long arc produced when a helicopter approaches a high voltage power line. The arc continues until the shorting stick makes contact with the conductor.It is of interest to consider the highest voltage power line that birds will sit on. While birds don't care at all about 11 kV lines, I don't think I have ever seen a bird sitting on a 400 kV line. I have often wondered where the threshold is before the capacitance of the bird becomes an issue?

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 08:40:34 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 04:21:53 amThey are touching ground. Flooring, shoes and socks are not consistent between brands and environmental conditions.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 02:59:05 pm
content: If I remember correctly, they say to treat from hand, through your chest, to other hand, as if it's only 500 or 1000 ohms, depending on your skin moisture, saltiness, humility/etc. And then there's all the paths back to the neutral and ground wires, through the floors, and walls, etc.I once got a mild current going through me when working on a 240V, 2-phase heater. And the current was going through a screw driver, or up my hand/arm somehow, and exiting through my knee into the floor, and then back to some wire.This is a long video but there's some good stuff in there, I need a refresher.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 03:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 17, 2025, 04:38:55 amDictionaries vary, but "electrocution" can involve deathorserious injury due to electric shock.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 04:45:48 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 17, 2025, 04:38:55 amBuild a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.Seta man on fire and...

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 07:16:47 pm
content: Don't forget about static electricity. It can give you quite a shock. Touching a large body of steel, like a refrigerator that is at low potential and you being charged up to some high static voltage can produce a nice spark when you touch the refrigerator or a car for that matter. The times I got a shock when touching a car door is high, especially in winter. It won't kill you, but can hurt.Shock from mains supply is a different story of course, and for some it turned out to be lethal. It all depends on the path of the current, the duration of it, etc. I myself have had plenty of 220 - 240V shocks. My first one was when I was a kid and stuck a piece of metal in an extension cord. Nothing happened until my brother stuck a wire in the other hole and touched me with it. That was my first experience with 220V. Yes back in the day it was 220V. Still here though.But don't go sticking your fingers into sockets to see what it feels like. I can assure you it is no pleasure.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 09:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: moffy on March 17, 2025, 05:17:09 amI don't see how there would be a voltage-dependent effect like that. It just depends on the circumstances, in terms of which muscle groups are affected and what happens when those muscles contract, it's not like <120V affectsthesemuscles and >120V affectsthosemuscles. I know of one case where someone had one hand on the frame of a (grounded) cabinet and, in a moment of pure "I just wasn't thinking", put another hand on a live 480VAC terminal. He ended up staying like that for some seconds until his legs finally gave out and his body weight pulled him off of the terminal/cabinet, causing serious lacerations to his hands in the process. I could imagine if the back of his hand touched the terminal instead, it could have caused a convulsion that would have knocked him away instead -- or if the current path had been through the legs, he might have jumped across the room instead. People also tend to reflexively pull themselves away from things that hurt/startle them, which is also involuntary but doesn't really have anything to do with electricity, but could be confused as such in the circumstances. Of course if arc flash is involved, or there is sufficient power delivered into the poor person's body due to a high enough voltage and available current, that could physically knock someone back anyway -- but at that point you're probably less worried about direct electrical effects on the body and more worried about burns and other physical trauma, at least in the immediate term.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:17:43 pm
content: Elaborating a bit on my initial message, besides the story of the girl who got stuck on a dishwasher and rack, I also promote safety to others and want to be accurate in my explanations; hence why I asked this question.I've seen those helicopter videos (I think it was a documentary and/or Modern Marvels) about how they need to use a rod.Does capacitance come into play in getting shocked? Static electricity is the build up of charge on a body, say walking across carpeting. The human would build up a charge as a result. The moment the person comes close to an object with a different charge, usually as their finger approaches a light switch, an arc jumps. Is this technically capacitance affecting the transfer of charge?Or as a hypothetical example: if a single non-insulated wire (exposed copper) carrying 10kV (or some ridiculously higher voltage) was connected between two poles spaced miles apart and miles high (i.e. eliminating any sort of ground being in close proximity - or for purposes of discussion, let's assume ground is no where near), and I could "fly" like a bird to land on the wire. Would I get a a 10kV jolt in my body that would kill me due to a difference in voltage potential (my body is at "0V" and the power line is at 10kV) or would I just sit on the wire and not feel anything? Obviously if I began sliding down the wire, as I got closer to the next pole, the voltage would arc out my body and then I'd get electrocuted.Muscles contracting and not allowing the person to let go makes sense. The statement I usually tell people is that you stand to get killed by a standard 12V car battery than an AC outlet because the DC will fuse you to the terminals whereas AC you can pull away. I guess while it's theoretically true you can pull away every 8.3ms with AC, technically the muscles will not allow it.Until a few days ago, I thought a Tesla car powered the motors off 48V DC batteries. I began calculating the amperage based on just 200HP - if 1HP = 746W, that would be approx. 3100A.This didn't seem correct to me, but reading showed the batteries actually put out over 300V which would reduce the actual current. This still seems crazy to me as 300+ V would be quite dangerous to have running through a car.

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:33:30 pm
content: This is an example of a human body model, might help:https://incompliancemag.com/human-body-model-and-electrostatic-discharge-esd-tests/

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on March 17, 2025, 09:34:10 pmYou should consult the literature then! The current passing through a person is not even close to simple resistance.From IEC 60479-1 with regard to a hand-foot conduction path:Quote

author: Geoff-AU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:48:37 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 10:17:43 pmWait till you hear about how combustion engines do it - running highly flammable liquid around everywhere

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 10:17:43 pmTesla Roadster has been around since 2008. Nissan Leaf has been around since 2010. There's no excuse to have such outdated knowledge about EV technology!

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:04:13 pm
content: I was shocked once when I was a teenager by 120V @ 60 Hz from our school bus that we fixed into a camper. I griped a rod and could not let go at first. You could fell the 60 Hz pulsing through me.On another occasion many years later, I got shocked by 120V @ 400 Hz. It was a much different experience. More like a strong hard bite, like being stung by the end of a wipe. I was not griping anything that time. Just brushed against a stud in a disconnect box. I remember the pain lasted much long (a few hours).Those are two of my memorable experiments with electricity. It gives you a healthy respect.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:15:14 pm
content: QuoteHow is this comment contributing to the topic in this thread?It's a thread about safety, not how many 9V batteries are in a Tesla.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:25:03 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 11:15:14 pma) the Tesla cells are 3.7V, not 9Vb) Tesla battery packs (and Nissan, BMW, and other EV battery packs) demonstrate how high voltage +300VDC can be made safe. I encourage you to examine the engineering that goes into EV electrical safety. The electrical safety principles apply to fixed household wiring just as equally, albeit the safety regulatory codes will be different.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:29:07 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 11:15:14 pmDeaths from electricity are remarkably rare. I have known plenty of people of my personal acquaintance (far too many) who have died from cancer. I have known people who have died from heart attacks and strokes.I have not heard of one person who has died from electrocution, even in my widest social circle.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:33:59 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 17, 2025, 11:29:07 pmA few years ago in Australia, a botched government program to install roofing heat insulation, resulted in two people killed via electrocution. Basically untrained labour were attaching the foil insulation using metal staples, and they stapled the foil through live wiring.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/19/foil-insulation-recipe-disaster-royal-commissionAnd whilst not a death, a faulty earth in social housing caused a water faucet to become live, causing a girl brain damage.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-27/denishar-woods-garden-tap-electrocution-report-released/11553734

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:35:04 pm
content: If you think it is easy to electrocute a person, watch this (the history of the electric chair)https://youtu.be/cpYU8oa8g_k?si=quY1aXShJ1_fvChZ

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 12:55:10 am
content: Regardless of safety, at 300+ volts in a car, lethal accidents can happen.In any case, I didn't mean to deviate. My comment was pointing out that I was unaware of the high voltage in cars.What about the question I had regarding a hypothetical situation with sitting on a power line? Would capacitance cause death or just a shock?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 01:50:49 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 10:17:43 pmJust like a bird, you would sit on the wire and not feel anything.HOWEVERIf you use a helicopter, the rotating blades may create static electricity, as seen in this video:Note the static discharge rod in the left hand, and the grounding clamp in the right hand.Here's another

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 04:22:05 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on March 18, 2025, 01:50:49 amI don't think that's static electricity. I think that is capacitive coupling between the wire and the helicopter.If it were static electricity, it would just be a single spark like from an electrostatic machine. This is not a spark, it is a continuous buzzing arc.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 06:21:47 am
content: The arc you see with the helicopter connecting onto the lines is capacitive coupling. Tho static buildup from the blades is also a thing with helicopters (but is not anywhere near this intense)This is the main reason why they have to connect the helicopter to the line and why the workers wear special conductive suits. This conducts the AC coupled currents around the people rather than trough them. If you were to reach out with your bare hand at the line you would get quite the zap. Making things worse zaps make you jump and that's the last thing you want to be doing when you are climbing on a wire high in the air.Main problem being is that the arc works as a 'interrupting switch' So that the self capacitance brings the two sides many kilovolts apart, then at one point the arc forms and dumps those kilovolts into the capacitance over a very short period, this causes very high peak currents in the many amps. This is indeed similar to a static shock. Not quite so dangerous due to the short duration, but is very painful, now imagine that happening 120 times per second.This is also likely why birds don't like the higher voltage lines, they get a shock when getting close, but id assume once the bird is perched on the line and connected fully it would be fine.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 01:06:49 pm
content: Getting electrocuted is rather an indirect death - your heart will stop beating.Stopping the current flow and then using reanimation has a good chance of surviving the incident. That's probably the cause of not too many deaths by electricity.The electric chair does not work by simply stopping your heartbeat, you are getting cooked. Which, of course, is an awful death.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 01:47:13 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on March 18, 2025, 01:06:49 pmAre you sure it's not just the optics? However, like others here, I have had non-lethal shocks, and they are not pleasant.Capital punishment in the US is a hot topic and whether it should continue is not appropriate to discuss here. However, there are academic studies by pathologists that try to predict how much awareness of pain the subject has. Hanging and decapitation appear gruesome but were considered humane; however, they are subject to being botched. An argument can be made that no death is painless, but that's an impossible postulate to test.Asphyxiation by nitrogen is being considered in some states and has been used by one. Studies have been done with medical students (believe it or not) in which student volunteers' expired air was passed through NaOH in water to absorb CO2 and then re-inhaled. As the students went unconscious, they were immediately revived with oxygen. They had no recollection of going unconscious. It was reported that some were even surprised to find pencils they were holding had fallen on the floor.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 02:49:31 pm
content: On the subject of death and pain there is indeed no way of assuring someone who died did not feel pain, but if anesthetics are used I think it is safe to say that no pain was felt.I have had surgery under full anesthetics once, and have no recollection of feeling any pain during the time I was under, so my guess is that you don't feel pain when they euthanize you with the use of anesthetics followed by for instance cyanide or other quick working poison.Both my parents have been euthanized and I witnessed both going of in nowhere land without any sign of discomfort. Something to consider for the states that still feel the need to use capital punishment.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 04:00:49 pm
content: Most anesthetics block pain. Nitrous oxide is used an example with limited pain blocking. However, things happen where there is likely pain, but you don't perceive it. Grabbing a mouse by the nap of the neck (as when a bird of prey grabs it or as used in a laboratory) may block awareness, but not pain itself.My personal experience includes an accident when descending on an extension ladder that collapsed. I fell backwards and landed on my back on the ladder somehow, broke several ribs, and was probably unconscious for an unknown period. All I remembered was the sensation of falling. No pain from the landing or injuries as they occurred. Our bodies have a way of blocking such memories. It's like the philosophical question of whether a tree falling in the woods makes a sound if no one is around to hear it. If you don't perceive pain, was there pain?Nitrogen has the the property of causing narcosis (e.g., raptures of the deep), which may be important in the use as mentioned.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 11:41:07 pm
content: QuoteThe rotating blades would make sense as to why a build up exists, but I'm a bit mixed up on capacitance coupling versus static electricity.Again, ignoring ground and arcing, assuming I can just fly up to a single power line, and let's even call it 1M (million) volts. What exactly would happen to me? Since my body is at (let's assume 0v), does that mean an instant 1M volts would transfer into my body thus giving me the shock of my life? If so, why would that not kill someone?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 12:15:46 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 18, 2025, 11:41:07 pm1 MV isn't going to happen on an AC power line, but just for grins, let's assume 500 kV. What that means is the wire is going to change in potential from +400 kV to −400 kV, 60 times per second. That's a peak to peak voltage swing of 800 kV.So if you were to touch that wire, your body is also going to swing up and down by nearly 1 million volts, not just once, but 60 times per second. I dare say you would find that experience rather exciting

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 12:49:31 am
content: I was using 1M volts as a nice round number; and exaggerated for purposes of discussion.So a person wouldn't get electrocuted, but would oscillate at 60Hz with a 800kV p-p swing?Does that mean eventually the person would charge to the same potential and not feel the really cool and exciting feeling?

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 12:49:56 am
content: the capacitive reactance of 100 pf is 25 megaohms at 60hz.so 500k volts results in 20 milliamps.https://incompliancemag.com/human-body-model-and-electrostatic-discharge-esd-tests/so the minimum capacitance in free space is apparently 55pf. --plus corona losses.have fun with that. at 69,000 volts (typical high voltage before the 7.2kv substations) you ll have 1.5mA minimum, hanging off the line. good for a bit of a tickle.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 12:52:45 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 18, 2025, 11:41:07 pmYour assumption is incorrect, a flying human body is NOT at ground potential..... they are not touching ground!An isolated flying human body can float to any voltage, much like how an isolated multimeter can float to any voltage without damaging itself.

author: donlisms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 05:08:09 am
content: I googled “bird power meter.” I thought it might be relevant. Seems like an open business opportunity.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 06:25:01 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 19, 2025, 12:49:31 amThe problematic part is when you get close but not actually touch the high voltage line.That's where you get the arcing happen, so if the line swings between +400kV and -400kV, at the peaks you would get an arc jump from the line to you charging you up to +400kV then as the line swings the other way you get an arc from the -400kV line to your body charged to +400kV so this is the same as if you stood on a insulator charged to 800kV and touched a grounding rod, sending 10s or 100s of amps trough your body (but only for a very very short time). Most static shocks that properly hurt are only a few 10s of kV, so this would be 10x more painful than the worst static shock you had before, and it would be experiencing it again and again up to 120 times per second! Id say this would hurt worse than grabbing 220V mains.Once you actually grab into the line it should be a lot better. At that point arcing stops and the current being pushed into your body becomes a smooth sine wave (~90 degree out of phase with voltage) and the peak current should drop to miliamps. If you grabbed on with your whole hand then it likely wouldn't be more than a tingle. If you instead just pressed the tip of your finger against the line then it would certainly be a unpleasant sting. Tho at these sort of voltages you also might start feeling weird stings over your body from corona discharge sending electrons into the air(I hope you are not wearing jewelry).The brave linemen that climb on these lines are connected to the line and are clearly alive. They just have conductive suits to keep these currents from being actually felt by them.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 02:29:58 pm
content: I learned a bit more from this thread.I have a foot pedal that enables the AC outlet only when pressed. Usually I'll use it when working inside something that's AC in hopes that if I get shocked, my foot comes off the pedal.After reading this thread, seems my leg muscles may tighten and continue pushing on the pedal.As for capacitance, again, assuming no ground exists for a far distance, an animal or human can touch the live wire, but all they'll experience is a continuous oscillation of 60Hz (50Hz elsewhere) that will be unpleasant but not kill them?If I understand correctly, if the voltage is high enough, then it can arc through the air and the person will get electrocuted.Did I understand everything correctly?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 02:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 20, 2025, 02:29:58 pmOnly if electric current is passing through your leg muscles. Muscles contract because the electric current activates the muscle fibers.QuoteIt's not clear what the impact would be. It depends on the voltage on the wire. Since no human can fly up to a 400 kV wire unassisted and touch it with their bare hand, it's not clearly known what the effect would be.QuoteThe air doesn't make a difference to electrocution potential. It hurts to get zapped with a spark or arc, because it is hot, and because the effect is concentrated on a small contact area with a big current spike. If you touch the conductor there is less pain because the current is spread out over more area and averaged over time.Nevertheless, if the voltage is high enough, and your capacitance is high enough, the reactive current might be enough to hurt or kill you. This is not an experiment anyone wants to try.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 02:53:53 pm
content: Maybe this mythbusters episode brings some light to the subjectI saw it a long time ago and can't fully recall the outcome, but it probably also depends on if anything in the tub is conductive to ground. I expect the results to be different when a polyester tub with pvc drains is used.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 01:33:51 am
content: It states the video "wasn't made available in our country".That's an odd message that I haven't seen.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 07:30:34 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 21, 2025, 01:33:51 amYou can search for mythbusters season 2 episode 11, or mythbusters bathtub electrocution.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 12:35:27 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 19, 2025, 12:15:46 amWhat are you talking about?! 1MV transmission lines have been in use for many years. Both DC and AC examples exist. The USSR installed anetwork of 1.15MV AC linesback in the 1980s, but was reduced to 500kV when the USSR dissolved. Japan hasanother networkof lines currently operated at 500kV, but designed for 1.1MV if needed later. And China hasa large networkof ultra high voltage transmission lines in operation (most are either 1MV AC or ±800 kV bipolar DC, but one is ±1.1MV DC).

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 01:20:01 pm
content: I stand corrected.I was tossing out some high voltage number for purposes of discussion, but assumed it didn't exist.My question(s) were more of: without the ability to conduct hot to some neutral or ground, would I feel anything sitting on a power line, so I threw out 1MV as an example.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 01:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 21, 2025, 12:35:27 pmWe are talking about AC transmission lines. Not DC.The highest voltage in use in the USA is 765 kV. In other parts of the world, AC transmission lines operating at voltages 1 MV and above are rare and unusual to the point of being a special talking point.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 02:58:14 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on March 17, 2025, 07:40:17 amIt can't be a whole lot, but the arcs when the grounding clamp is brought to the HV wire are QUITE impressive! The guys who do this work wear a wire mesh suit that is grounded to the grounding clamp.Jon

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 10:19:53 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 21, 2025, 01:52:00 pmYou said 1kV AC is “not gonna happen”. Well it can happen, and is in fact in use.Quote from: IanB on March 21, 2025, 01:52:00 pmDid you even read my entire post before barking back? It is 1000% clear that I know that, since I explicitly mention 1MV AC lines and contrast with DC ones, too.Quote from: IanB on March 21, 2025, 01:52:00 pmSo? The fact is, you said 1MV AC can’t be done, but it can. The same laws of physics apply everywhere. The fact that it isn’t done commonly, or that it isn’t in use in USA, does not change the fact that 1MV AC is doable, and not just in theory, but in practice.P.S. “What are you talking about?” is also an expression meaning as much as “where’d you get that incorrect idea?” When, like here, the rest of the response clearly indicates that the person knows the topic of discussion, you should know that it isn’t a query meaning “please name the topic of discussion”.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 10:20:47 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 21, 2025, 01:33:51 amReally? It’s not that rare.

author: MarkT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 09:23:22 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 17, 2025, 04:21:53 amStanding on the floor means your feet are earthed if your footwear isn't a really good insulator. You might think modern rubber soles insulate well, but in practice they get moisture in the foam and do not insulate much - I've been zapped in trainers and can atest to this - never trust a farmer to unplug a cable before unreeling it across a field(!)

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 01:59:13 pm
content: I'll admit that I got a bit carried away with the exaggerated examples of a human "flying" onto a high voltage line.The initial question (which got answered in this thread) was asked of me when the person said she couldn't release her hands when she got electrocuted at work. Now I've learned the muscles contract, and, as I knew, although technically every 8.3ms the voltage is 0v (which is an extremely short time) and a person should be able to pull away, the muscles will cause the person to grip the object(s). The other anomalies of getting hurt come into play such as falling off a ladder and other situations, but the main answer is the muscles contract.As for getting electrocuted, safety is key, but we all know that regardless of measures put in place, electricity is going to try and find a pathway to ground. I never considered shoes as being a conductor, but this is why accidents happen.This is why i was trying to understand a hypothetical situation of eliminating "ground" and "neutral", and what a human would feel touching/grabbing/sitting on a power line comprised of high voltage. One time I asked my PhD co-worker a similar question and sometimes he'd answer questions with a sarcastic answer causing me to wonder if he was joking.If I remember correctly, he mentioned a human would get zapped, and, when I asked about a bird, he said they have less capacitance.This caused me to wonder: where/how is electricity going through my body if I'm sitting on a power line without ground anywhere near; hence why I presented such a hypothetical scenario.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2025, 03:30:11 pm
content: Thr current does not go anywhere except that there is a concentration or a deficit of electrons on the surface of the body.. like a static charge.But it is not flowing out of the person to ground, however it is flowing into and out of the person, to the tune of 1 to 10 milliamps as i previously showed

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:29:36 am
content: The current is caused by extra electrons being packed into your body because the higher voltage can squeeze more electrons into the same space, on the opposite side of the cycle electrons are pulled out of your body. Electrical current is electrons moving along a conductor so that's where you get current from.Tho to be more accurate there are also other contributions like capacitance from you being near other objects. This causes an electrostatic force that can pack even more electrons onto the surface of your body because they are attracted to opposite charges in objects around you. This is why capacitors are made from closely spaced parallel plates, it exploits this effect to produce a large capacitance in a small space. There are also no electrons "flowing trough" the capacitor, since they can't jump the gap between the plates, it is just extra free electrons being packed into the plates, or pulled off them.Antennas are similar where you just push AC current into a wire and that current just magically disappears. That's because what you were actually driving is the antennas self capacitance, however there it doesn't look like capacitance because the energy is radiated into the air as electromagnetic waves, so the antenna looks like a resistor.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:01:23 pm
content: The human body, for electrical purposes, is a very lossy dielectric, with DC conductivity through its saline content. At higher frequencies, it does not conduct so much as a container of saline, due to cellular walls. When being electrocuted, the resistance between points on the body surface is dominated by the high resistance through the skin, which depends strongly on how moist the skin is (perspiration and moisture).