do you work out? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 05:28:20 pm
content: Do you work out? I do strict heavy barbell exercises like stronglifts.I noticed that engineers seem to enjoy doing 'fun' physical activities with more of a focus on cardiocentric/endurance activity then more then strict muscular exercises. Biking and climbing seem popular with engineers I know in particular. How do you fit in? Some also seem to enjoy jogging.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 06:29:22 pm
content: I've never got into lifting weights and don't like gyms. I went to the gym once and hated it. I tried a running machine and it gave me motion sickness, so I had a go on the cross-trainer and got bored very quicklyI like cycling. I bike to work and back every day and usually go for a ride at lunchtime. I don't normally do very long distances, usually a few miles at time but fairly fast. In the week I do about 12 and a half miles per day (that's 20km for metric people), at an average speed 17mph or 27kmph, including stopping to wait for traffic lights and slowing down for pedestrians, on the cycle track and idiots in cars who think it's fine to drive really slowly. I cycle at the weekends too but not quite so much, as I think it's good to rest a bit.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 07:24:18 pm
content: I didn't start lifting till my 40's.Wish I would have known sooner the benefits.Just finished two series of 5x5 stronglifts and liked the results.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 07:34:52 pm
content: Quote from: Johnny10 on June 16, 2018, 07:24:18 pmWhat are the benefits?I certainly feel better for doing cardio. I've lost weight and am now at the point where I don't want to lose any more, so actively try not to.I've heard it's better to do both cardio and resistance training. I probably need to do more of the latter. My strength training is cycling uphill in a fairly high gear, but I should work on other muscles, than just my legs. Some people do weights because they like to have a muscular body, but I don't and don't believe it's healthy either.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 08:10:02 pm
content: The benifits:StaminaSelf confidenceTerrific postureMental acuityI am 66 still bench 185, squat 270, have no backaches, no weakness in the joints.Feel mentally and physically the same as I did in my late 30's.Not many of my peers can say the same.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 09:26:03 pm
content: Quote from: Johnny10 on June 16, 2018, 08:10:02 pmWell cardio is certainly better than weights for stamina and has the other two benefits you've listed, except for posture: I do have sloping shoulders, so should do some upper body work to improve that. The trouble for me is motivation: I don't like gyms. Is there a sport I can do, which would give me some of the benefits of strength training, preferably outdoors?

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 10:00:48 pm
content: I do some form of aerobics every other day.Definitely a plus!I bought an entire gym from two different sellers for less than 600!Have commercial treadmill, smith machine, squat rack and the most useful piece of equipment is the "Block",45 lb of adjustable weights in 5 lb increments. You can get in shape with just a set of these.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2018, 10:20:22 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 16, 2018, 05:28:20 pmI started doing more about 5 years ago. One of my relatives which has always been very active got a stroke and being fit helped him a lot to recover compared to less fit people. Also I was about to hit triple digits on the scale (in kg) so I had to take some action. Nowadays I swim twice a week (about 4km in total) and if the weather permits I go out for a long bike ride (sometimes I travel to customers on my bike) and usually combine that with a swim in a lake. I prefer to be outside and I do everything in a normal tempo. There is a lot to see in the nature around here anyway:I also lost quite a bit of weight during the past couple of years. The downside is that people say I'm too skinny now and I have to buy lots of new clothes. Still I don't consider myself a sporty person.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:04:59 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 16, 2018, 05:28:20 pmIn my view, engineer, management, accounting clerk... none of that makes a difference. It is a matter of habit, and of discipline.Some occupation would make that into a habit - if you are a pro-soccer player, or a former military, you would likely have a habit of doing daily work out. If you are a construction worker building roads, you probably wont have a habit of working out in the morning because you are working out 9 out of 10 minutes while at work.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 05:38:59 am
content: I certainly fit the bill when it comes to "fun" activities. Exercises for the sake of them quickly become extremely tedious. I can force myself to do them, but quickly loathe every second. Having a distinct goal and activity helps tremendously and transforms the tedious into something fun. Add in some friends for friendly competition and amicable encouragement and exercise becomes something to look forward to. I can endure quite punishing schedules without it feeling like a chore this way.Other than the obvious physical benefits, I feel the mental aspects are as important or maybe even more important. Life simply is more fun if you move about a bit.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 07:13:03 am
content: At 56yrs, per weekCycle about 1x 25km, 1200 vertical feetWalk 3x6km, each 300 v. feet1x10km 1000 v. feetDaily 20 push ups and sit ups.Swim 2x700mKeeps a bit of aging at bay!

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 07:21:21 am
content: I think I fit with the OP stereotypeWeekends:Though I've abandoned both free- and mountain- climbing, I still mountaineer/hike a lot when in Italy usually 10-20km length, 900-1300m elevation (wife would not even consider tying her boots for less than that).In winter it's mostly cross-country/light mountaineering skiing, sometimes snowshoes or crampons.At least one week of downhill skiing in the Alps, too.Work days:During the week I usually walk home from (but rarely to) work, just 5km, mostly in the woods.While I hate gyms and running, strangely enough I love swimming: I just turn my brain off, it's just like sleeping for my mind, not for the body...so if the weather is bad it's the swimming pool for me.EtA: and biking! Sprinkled all over, as a convenient mean of transportation or just for leg stretching...

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 08:05:15 am
content: Do quite a lot of walking. Used to do martial arts but stopped due to a back problem. (Basically due to trying stuff my instructor said was beyond my level, silly me..) Thinking of getting back into it.When you do a sedentary job like ours you really need something to occasionally get the blood stirring.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:12:30 pm
content: I've only ever done endurance weight work. Have done in excess of probably 5000 BodyPump classes.So don't ask me how much I can bench, I don't know. But if you need someone to bench 35kg continually for 6 minutes, I'm your guy.Used to do regular cardio classes like boxing, circuit, BodyCombat and others as well, but that's taken a bit of a back seat since the knee operation when my surgeon said I shouldn't really be doing any jumping or running any more (and jumping is my thing):After a badly bruised and swollen knee after a pretty easy (by my standards) 10km obstacle race the other week, I think he's probably right.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:21:14 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 16, 2018, 09:26:03 pmClimbing/bouldering?Obstacle racing. Some like Spartan focus more on strength obstacles.Many of the "bootcamp" type classes run outdoors have strength stuff like tyre or log carries etc.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:23:58 pm
content: I get quite a workout moving boxes of stuff around as I try to find the right part for whatever I'm working on. Why waste time in the gym when I can clean up the lab a bit and get exercise that way? Also have plans to make an improved version of my stationary bicycle generator.On that note, Rinoa Super-Genius rarely, if ever, works out in a gym, yet she's incredibly strong. Her workout routine is pretty much just working in the yard and some bicycle rides.Quote from: nctnico on June 16, 2018, 10:20:22 pmWhat's your BMI? If it's well within the normal range, prove to them that you're perfectly normal.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:34:44 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 16, 2018, 07:34:52 pmThat's why there are endurance weight workouts like BodyPump. Hundreds of reps instead of 10's at much lighter weight.It's a really inefficient way to bulk up, so you can go to town on endurance weight work and not look that muscular.It's always funny to watch the huge body builder guys try a BodyPump class, it's always the same - they scan the room to see what others are lifting, eye me off because I always have the most weight, think "huh, I can at least lift what that skinny guy is lifting", and then hilarity ensuesThey learn very quickly that they are two very different ways of lifting.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:41:35 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 17, 2018, 02:34:44 pmIMHO it also depends on what your work-out goal is. Burn calories (body fat) or build up muscles. Burning body fat means doing a light exercise for a long time.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:45:21 pm
content: I have seen the most improvement with light weights and body weight.Pushups, situps, chin-ups.I am definitely not a muscle head but being stronger and spending maybe 45 minutes a day on exercise is a no-brainer from my perspective.Looking back at choosing options for better, healthier lifestyle, I know I have won that race.

author: Rutherfordium
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 03:45:42 pm
content: I run Starting Strength. It's great. It's like taking antidepressants that work (never tried the pharmaceutical kind).

author: Rutherfordium
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 03:48:39 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2018, 02:41:35 pm"Burning" body fat is only accomplished by maintaining a calorie deficit. This could just as easily be accomplished by eating less.Building muscles requires a calorie surplus and sufficient stress to muscles to induce an adaptation.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 04:04:19 pm
content: What I found happens if you take a stronglift program somewhat seriously being fat is that you typically maintain or slightly decrease your weight but you can lift like 250lb so that means you at least made some kind of fat muscle trade off but its highly satisfying anyway, and you cardio/ability to run increases greatly, but the problem is that you will have various stabilizer muscles and stuff that is not used for running so you may suddenly as a previously heavy man be able to run a seemingly long distance if you have been doing heavy lifting for a while but expect all the auxiliary stuff to hurt/encounter serious damage.I kind of think (though I am very uneducated here) that the type of muscles Dave Jones talks about is more grown to have high blood flow and possibly production of glycogen or whatever, while muscle grown for heavy/sporatic activity will not have as much infrastructure in it dedicated towards getting large volumes of blood into it or using blood to produce energy (I have to recover for a long time).Probably for most labor you will find that the endurance type muscle is more useful, however, I do wonder what the effect on heart strain is, I would expect the endurance type muscle to have higher fluid resistance because of its possibly higher surface area, so if you have a huge amount of it, it may be slightly more stressful on the heart then the other type, but I am pretty sure it would still be far better then fat.I got this idea by kind of following the BB community and noticing that many people (well steroid users that basically do heavy weights endurance (freakish)) seem to have an abnormal amount of heart problems.. and the debate is if it is purely due to steroids, related to 'good looking' obesity (mass term only, not fat, meaning that the mortality is the same as for a regular fat person), or a type of muscle growth that has a very high surface area so it acts as a strong resistance for the heart, possibly making the excess of such tissue more dangerous then an excess of fat for the heart. (but I suspect the people are still much much happier psychologically)Based on others peoples comments (taken with a grain of salt), it seems that the mortality of heavy muscular is higher then equally heavy fat(tissue) obese people, so there might be something here, but this would require me to put alot of effort to research problems I don't have or really care about too much . This would be people that weigh like 300lb.May be of interest to study if you want to make the choice between TRENT, methamphetamine and do heavy squats till exhaustion/death every day , or crushing 6 bags of family sized doritos every day

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 04:22:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 17, 2018, 02:34:44 pmI think there's some relatively recent research that challenges the classic workout wisdom that high intensity training gains mass and low intensity training builds lean efficient muscles, but I won't make the mistake of arguing for or against that wisdom.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 04:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: Rutherfordium on June 17, 2018, 03:48:39 pmNeither losing weight nor bulking up were my goals which, was to become more healthy. The weight loss was unexpected and not planned.In theory eating less can cause fat loss, but in practise isn't easy, is unsustainable, in the long term and ultimately results in muscle loss too. Exercising regularly is more sustainable and can result in a reduction in body fat, without the need to restrict energy intake. It's certainly much more healthy, than dieting which normally fails, in the long run.

author: malagas_on_fire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 04:38:22 pm
content: I do swim twice per week, at least 1200m to 1500m in one hour.I have swimmed last two weeks 2km but it was during 2 hours period. Also i do hinking on parks, across the rivers.When the pool closes for holiday usually i go to a river that mininal safe to swim without hitting rocks or branches, or run ocassionally.I do freestyle ( crawl) , backstroke and breastroke, but butterfly only leg training, two pools...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 05:02:00 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 17, 2018, 04:36:11 pmThe mistake a lot of people make is dieting instead of changing your eating habits. Torturing yourself for a little while is no use, you need to make permanent or long term changes. Obviously, those are going to be much less extreme.Exercise isn't a very effective way to burn fat, simply because the extra energy spent is only a tiny fraction of the energy you use daily. Just staying alive and digesting foods consumes the vast majority of the energy you burn. Not to mention people that exercise tend to compensate their energy spent by eating more. Exercise makes hungry. That leads to the conclusion that sensibly reducing energy intake is a relatively effective way of reducing fat, although doing exercise does help creating an energy deficient state. Exercise does improve countless others things though, so going at it is certainly a good idea.That being said, as always it's not as black and white as people make it to be. People have all sorts of ridiculous convictions when it comes to food and exercise. There's a lot of harmful nonsense floating around, often preached as absolute truth and defended to the death.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 05:47:44 pm
content: I do have to say though that when I was younger in the 18-20 year area I used to do jogging like jog 1-2 miles at 4am when I could not sleep in school, and the benefits I enjoy from weight lifting are far superior imo. I also used to do some things like circuit exercises with lighter weights (say up to 25lb dumbells) when I jogged, but not during jogging obviously

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 06:40:38 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 17, 2018, 05:02:00 pmMy personal experience is that eating less isn't causing any weight loss at some point. It is like a new balance is achieved. For me doing exercise does help to lose weight but it is going slow.QuoteI agree about the short term diets. These don't work long term and crap like don't mixing certain kinds of foods, etc isn't going to work either. The bottom line is that in order to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 07:04:22 pm
content: What about the few who eat a lot, exercise little, and yet are really skinny? (I know a few who are like that, both on TV and in real life.) The vague answer is "they have a high metabolism", but do scientists know about the exact details?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 07:14:13 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 17, 2018, 07:04:22 pmI know a few people like that too. I've read an interesting article about that in a science magazine. It seems that the amount of fat storage cells varies for each person. If a person doesn't have the storage space available then the excess food just goes out again.High metabolism is not a good thing to have BTW.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 08:01:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 17, 2018, 05:02:00 pmWhat if your diet isn't that bad, yet you're still overweight? The only way to cut back would be to deliberately restrict intake, permanently, which lead to feelings of deprivation and eventually binge eating. What's worse is the muscle lost when one is restricting is only replaced with fat when the weight is regained. Another problem is it's common to overshoot one's starting weight too.QuoteIn my experience, I've found the opposite to be true. Yes, I do compensate by eating more, but that's a good thing. If I didn't, I'd be badly malnourished by now. There's no way I could do the exercise I do and eat what I did before, without it damaging my health.When I started my exercise regime, I did eat more, when I was more active but I didn't entirely compensate with extra energy intake, so I still achieved a net energy expenditure: only a small energy deficit is required to lose weight and it's not difficult to achieve this, by doing more intensive exercise. The weight came off very slowly, but I believe that was the best way. Now, my weight has stabilised, at a healthy level, I do fully compensate with extra energy intake, which is healthy, even if what I sometimes eat isn't. If I've neglected to eat enough for a day or so, I do get cravings and will eat some high energy food, which may not be ideal, but it's better than the alternative: malnutrition. Of course the most healthy thing would be to have eaten enough in the first place, but real life can get in the way.One of the benefits of exercise is improved insulin response and a faster metabolism, due to increased lean body mass vs fat, which will make your body better at managing its own energy intake vs expenditure and less prone to excessive weight gain. The main reasons people tend to gain weight as they get older, is because their metabolism slows down and their insulin response deteriorates, which both lead to weight gain and exercise helps to prevent it.In the past, I've tried all the standard advice about following a healthy, balanced diet, without restricting my intake and it didn't work. I still ended up overweight. It's genetic. If I live a sedentary lifestyle, I'll gain weight, even with a healthy diet. I don't keep gaining weight forever, but it all piles around my middle. No amount of dieting fixes it. Some people are lucky, their genes mean they can lead a sedentary lifestyle, eat what they want and not get fat. Then there are people worse off than me, who'll probably always be overweight to some degree, even with a healthy diet and exercise regime: the key for them is keeping it to a safe level.QuoteI agree. One of the most harmful ones I see, is people believing that restricting their food intake is good or healthy. In reality restriction is generally bad. There may be exceptional circumstances, when it's a good idea, but it's not natural and tends to lead to disordered eating, whether it's clinically diagnosable: binge eating, bulimia, anorexia etc. or not.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 08:26:33 pm
content: My house is one big gymJust little digging today, then some add some cabless and pipes, put floor heating tube and pour concreteIt is nice to see outcome

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 11:28:56 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 17, 2018, 07:04:22 pmAll they need to do is to wait until they hit their 40th birthday. Then the countdown starts.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 11:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on June 17, 2018, 11:28:56 pmOne of them is about that old and shows no sign of weight gain. Also interesting to note that it seems to be most common with Asians, so genetics is definitely a factor.

author: Leiothrix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 12:55:01 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 17, 2018, 07:04:22 pmThat's because people are crap about estimating what they eat. Get them to actually count the calories they put in their face and it will most likely give the answer you'd expect.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 02:09:11 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 17, 2018, 07:04:22 pmThere is a phenomenon called TOFI - thin on the outide, fat on the inside. This is where some individuals seem to have normal body weight, but their internal organs are choked with fat. Instead of accumulating fat in adipose tissue and looking obese, these individuals store the fat in and around internal organs. Despite appearances, these individuals are well on the way to suffering from metabolic syndrome, diabetes type II, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and so on. External appearance can be misleading.However, it is also known that humans, like other animals, defend a certain body weight via the operation of a feedback loop, mediated by Leptin. Leptin is a hormone secreted by adipose tissue. It signals to your brain (the hypothalamus, which controls hunger) that you have enough energy stored to engage in daily life. The more fat you have, the more Leptin you secrete, and, if the feedback loop is working well, the less hungry you feel (over time).Conversely, the less fat you have, the less Leptin you secrete, and the more hungry you feel, if - and this is a big if - the feedback loop is working correctly.So some people stay skinny because they eat a lot from time to time, but other times they eat less, with the Leptin-mediated feedback stabilizing their body weight.But certain diets can interfere with the feedback loop. In particular, diets high in carbohydrates can cause chronically high levels of Insulin in your bloodstream. Insulin acts on the brain as well as other organs. Chronically high insulin interferes with Leptin signalling in the hypothalamus. In effect, it reduces the feedback loop gain, causing "Leptin resistance".So you get fat people whose adipose tissue is pumping out huge amounts of Leptin, but because their Insulin levels are chronically high, their brain gets increasingly "deaf" to the massive Leptin signal. As far as their hypothalamus is concerned, these people are starving. Their Leptin feedback loop is deranged by their high-carb diet, but the feedback is still working in a fashion.Hence the phenomenon of fat people who are always hungry and who are regulating at a very high body weight. No matter what they do, it seems, they can't lose weight permanently. The answer is to change their diet, so that their Insulin is no longer chronically high; they regain Leptin sensitivity; and their hypothalamus starts regulating at a saner level of body weight.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 02:11:15 am
content: if you are skinny then keep adding more weight each time you work out, even if its like some 1.25lb plates on a barbell (typically 2.5-5lb per workout), or get magnets to stick something like 0.5 lb - 1.25lb plates on your dumbells (you wanna ramp up dumbells slowly IMO).. your body will eventually not be able to perform the exercise without increasing muscular growth, it just won't be physically possible to do what your doing without some kind of growth some where, no matter what is going on with the metabolism or whatever.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 02:34:29 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 16, 2018, 05:28:20 pmI enjoy aerobics. But I also enjoy heavy lifts (deadlift, clean, clean and jerk, etc.), and bodyweight calisthenics (front lever, dragon flag, pistol squat).For aerobics, I do a hard one-hour session each week, either a "rolling hills" type routine on an elliptical cross-trainer, or interval training on a stationary bike (one minute sprint, one minute easy pace, repeat for the hour). I make sure the session takes me close to my limit - if I'm feeling stronger than normal, then I speed up. I also run to and from the gym, even on aerobics days, so I get a few hours of jogging per week that way.Bodyweight calisthenics is where the real action is, for me. One of my current goals is to master a strict one-arm pullup. I can do posted pullups - that's where you pull up mainly with one arm, with the other arm providing some support and balance. And I can do one-arm negatives, lowering myself by one arm from the top pullup position. But I can't do the strict one-arm concentric yet. Something to look forward to.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 04:24:31 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 18, 2018, 02:09:11 amFreelee The Banana Girl, a fitness model, actually advocates a high carb, low fat diet for those looking to lose weight as well as those who just want to be healthy. The key is that natural, unprocessed carbs like those found in fruit are very different from refined carbs.Another point that I just remembered is that cold weather is something else that can help with weight loss. Apparently just 15 minutes of exposure to cold weather (not even that cold at 53F) is as effective as a hour of exercise, although it is important to note that it is not a substitute for diet and exercise - just another tool that can be used for weight loss. That might be one of Allie Moore's secrets to how she stays so skinny - she doesn't mind cold weather very much.https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/02/140211-shivering-cold-exercise-brown-fat-white-fat-irisin-metabolism-weight-loss/On the contrary, particularly hot weather makes it difficult to get a lot of exercise activities done.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 05:33:52 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 18, 2018, 04:24:31 amYes, it's called the fruit paradox: Fructose is a problematic nutrient, so how is it that consumption of raw fruit seems to be beneficial? The fibre in raw fruit helps slow done absorption, so the liver does not get a large sudden hit of fructose, unlike sodas loaded with HFCS. Fruit fibre is an ameliorating factor, but not the whole answer. Raw fruit also contains antioxidants and other bioactive ingredients that processing tends to remove. These ingredients help liver function (among other things), but I'm not sure that explains it either. The fruit paradox is still a mystery.I advocate raw fruit as a replacement for fruit juice. I also advocate fruit that is strongly or brightly coloured, a la Terry Wahls. The intense colour indicates the presence of antioxidants and other bioactive ingredients. So mango, passionfruit, papaya, kiwi fruit, berries, cherries, rockmelon, mandarines: yes. Pale coloured fruit, like bananas, apples, pears, I tend to avoid because there are more nutrient-dense fruits available. For the same fructose load, I get more nutritional bang for my buck.Everyone differs in their tolerance of carbohydrates, and this tolerance tends to decrease as you get older. Some people do ok on high carbs, especially young people. But some people don't, even as children. To complicate matters, there is a plausible argument, put forward by Paul Jaminet and others, that some unrefined carbs (e.g. rice, starchy vegetables) are necessary to feed the bacteria in your gut, which in turn feed you. Some people have adverse reactions to paleo diets for this reason - their carb restriction is too extreme for their gut to handle.Using myself as an n=1 experiment, and monitoring myself for how well I recover from hard workouts, I've settled on a diet that is moderately low-carb, moderately high-fat: meat, fish, vegetables, fruit, some nuts, some dairy (which I can tolerate), olive oil, and coconut milk (plus some other refinements I won't go into here).If I eat really well, I can do hard workouts 36 hours apart with good recovery. If my nutrition is not on point, then takes me 48 hours or more for good recovery. The gym, and my runs to the gym, make it clear whether I'm getting it right.If you are interested in nutrition, I recommend following the work of researchers in two areas: nutrition for elite athletes, and nutrition for treating chronic life-threatening disease. In both cases the stakes are high, and getting it right matters very much. Obsolete dogma from a bygone era doesn't cut it. Two names to start with are Jeff Volek (athletes) and Terry Wahls (life-threatening disease).

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 05:44:52 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 18, 2018, 04:24:31 amBodily feedback sensing cold weather goes to your hypothalamus. After a swim in cold water, you typically feel hungry - your hypothalamus at work. It is an exquisite feedback system, balancing your hunger with your energy needs. But it is derailed by modern high-carb highly processed foods.I run to the gym in all weather - hot, cold, raining. My body seems to have developed a conditioned response. As soon as I put my gym gear on, I feel warmer. It's got to the point where I need to keep my head shaved to promote heat loss, otherwise I overheat in the gym. All around me are guys with warm tracksuits, meanwhile I'm losing 0.5 kg per workout in sweat, in lightweight summer gear.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 06:30:30 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2018, 06:40:38 pmThe body is quite annoying in the sense that it adapts in all sorts of ways to the changes that we make, often in ways counter productive to the desire to lose weight. It doesn't like to lose those comfy reserves it gathered, even when the idiot at the wheel decides he wants to throw them all out the window.In the end it still boils down to what you say, output should exceed input.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 07:39:59 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 18, 2018, 05:33:52 amCan I ask what your background is?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 09:08:35 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 17, 2018, 08:01:48 pmThere is only one way of losing weight or fat the natural way and that's having more energy output than input. In short, you need to have an energy difficency. It's essentially basic thermodynamics. There are two parameters that influence this, which are the amount of energy spent and the amount of energy absorbed.The amount of energy you spend is quite fixed. Men burn about 1500 to 1900 Kcal without doing anything else. Your body is heated, repairs to organs and tissues are being made and food is digested. If you go about your daily business and move about another 300 to 400 Kcal is added to that. This is where the requirements of approximately 1900 to 2300 Kcal a day for a grown man comes from. Most typical sports burn about 400 Kcal an hour if done enthusiastically. This differs from sport to sport, but 400 Kcal an hour seems to be a fairly common figure for active sports. Even if you exercise with quite some vigor for an hour a day every day, you see that it only represents a small fraction of the total energy spent. Moreover, research indicates that people working out compensate their energy burn by eating more. It's a natural impulse, as the body requires repairs and is trying to replenish the energy lost. The conclusion is that even if you dedicate one or more hours a day every day to sports, you will only influence the energy spent versus absorbed balance in a modest way. To quote an article: "Essentially, you’d need to run seven to 10 miles a day to lose one pound a week, says Holly Lofton, M.D., an assistant professor of medicine and director of the weight management program at New York University's Langone Medical Center. The average person can’t keep this up, especially without increasing their caloric intake."The second part of the equation is the energy intake and that's where things become interesting. What you eat is almost entirely up to you. Of course, starving yourself significantly is unhealthy and causes the body to respond in counterproductive ways if it senses it needs to go into survival mode, but rather than only having a crummy 20% scale to play with, you essentially get 100% of the scale on this side of the equation. Food is incredibly energy dense, so eating too much quickly leads to an energy surplus. A single slice of pizza or chocolate muffin can offset that hour of vigorously exercising. You can eat a perfectly balanced diet when it comes to nutrients while still overeating on the caloric side. There's simply too much going in for what's going out. Your own reports confirm this: a healthy and balanced diet without intake restriction didn't work. It's not genetic, it's input versus output. Restricting your food intake is how you achieve a healthy weight, provided you don't overdo the deficit and assure you take in all the essential vitamins, minerals and other stuff your body needs. The minor deficit we're talking about won't lead to cravings or binge eating. It's creating huge and sudden deficiencies that does that, or maybe a complete and total lack of the most basic self-control and discipline. A kilogram of fat represents about 7000 Kcal of energy, so having a daily deficit of a few hundred calories will burn off the excess slowly but surely. Some recommend going as far as 500 Kcal a day. Exercising an hour a day every day takes quite a bit of dedication to pull off, while reducing your energy intake by a similar amount is trivially done.It's important to recognize the difference between a balanced diet nutrient wise and energy intake. Losing weight is about energy intake versus output. On the other hand, a balanced diet ensures that your body has all the different substances it needs to keep everything running smoothly and create tissues properly. To make a crude comparison, energy intake is the fuel for the engine and nutrient intake is the oil. Both are essential in different ways. You can have a perfect balance of nutrients while have a vast excess of energy or a defitic You can also have a perfect energy intake while missing essential nutrients for constructing the various tissues and cells optimally. In extreme cases people have starved to death while having an abundance of energy available to them.Finally I want to note that exercising is a very good idea. It is an excellent way of setting yourself up for a longer, healthier and happier life. Losing weight through exercise alone isn't very viable, but it certainly can complement a proper dietary regime.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 12:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 18, 2018, 09:08:35 amWhat you say about intake vs expenditure is true, but the human body is far more complex than that. A reduction in intake, partly compensated for by a reduction in basil metabolic rate. The body starts to slow down, reducing its temperature, heart rate etc. to save energy. Exercise helps to counteract the reduction in BMR, as well as burning extra energy.And what's wrong with losing weight really slowly? Fair enough running the equivalent of 10 miles per day may not be realistic, but 5 miles is and losing 0.5lb per week is a perfectly realistic and healthy. Slower is better, as there's less chance of the body compensating for the energy deficit.QuoteNo, you don't have 100% of the scale to play with on the other side of the scale, not to lose weight sustainably and safely. I'd say you probably have even less, than 20%. The body is very sensitive to a reduction in energy intake.QuoteYes it is genetic. I was eating according to my appetite signal, which is something I do not control and is a product of my genes. I don't monitor how much oxygen my body uses and there's no point in doing the same for food. It just isn't healthy! I've been there, done that and suffered the consequences!QuoteNo, even minor reductions in energy intake results in cravings, in the long term. I've tried to diet down to a healthy weight and it just didn't work, over the long term and it had nothing to do with lack of will power!500Kcal per day will certainly result in binge eating. Experiments have been conducted in the past which prove this. Lower energy deficits, over longer periods of time, are more tolerable, but do eventually lead to cravings.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_ExperimentYour figures are all correct. Food is energy dense and exercise does result in in increase in energy intake, but the idea that restricting energy intake will result in a healthy weight, long term is flawed. It ignores the psychological and practical aspects of healthy eating. What happens if you've exhausted the number of calories in your food plan, yet you're still hungry? Do you eat a bit more and reduce the figure for the next day or go to bed hungry? Neither options are good.QuoteMy personal experience tells me otherwise. I've tried restricting my calories, carbohydrate, fat etc. intake in the past, suffered from disordered eating and it only resulted in further weight gain, long term. Now, I eat intuitively, without restriction and still maintain a healthy weight, because I exercise regularly my body is in good shape. If I need to eat more, my appetite increases. If I need to eat less, my appetite decreases.It's true body weight, is affected energy intake vs expenditure, but if you have a healthy body, an active lifestyle and eat a balanced diet, your body will manage you energy intake vs expenditure for you. No one counted calories, before the obesity epidemic, yet few people were overweight, so it clearly isn't the solution to the problem.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 01:16:16 pm
content: I'm actually advocating losing weight slowly. That's why I'm talking about a small deficit. 500 Kcal a day is already a lot in my book. That's a reduction of close to 25%! A small deficit seems key to avoid overshoot and other unwanted side effects. Meta research indicates that reducing calorie intake actually reduces cravings. I've posted a link below. Consistency is the key. I've talked about changing habits before and this is part of that. Without a deficit losing weight isn't possible. Whether that deficit is caused by reducing intake or increasing energy burn isn't entirely relevant, although I've explained in some detail why reducing intake is much more effecitive and likely to succeed. In both cases the improvement is the result of the deficit.I understand you have some personal experiences that lead to you say "it just isn't healthy" to reduce energy intake, but that isn't really in line with what research shows us. Overdoing it or getting completely hung up on calorie counting can be harmful indeed, but it doesn't need explaining that extreme behaviours aren't what you'd want. For the same reason the Minnesota Starvation Experiment doesn't seem entirely relevant to the current discussion. The fact that "starvation" is in the name is proabably a clue that it's not a healthy dietary adjustment.You say you weren't losing weight when you are eating according to your appetite signal. People's appetites aren't very reliable and can be way off. Regardless, even a perfectly balanced appetite isn't going to lose you weight, as it'll keep you exactly where you are. Calorie counting is an aid to eliminate the least trustworthy factor, the human and his estimates.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12566

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 01:31:51 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 18, 2018, 01:16:16 pmI agree. A couple of years ago I was getting too heavy so I subscribed to a weight loss website. The general consensus over there was to keep track of what I ate and count the calories for a week. Based on such a list you can start to eliminate the major sources of calories (In my case chocolate paste on bread). Furthermore you should keep eating a healthy diet which has all the recommended food types (dairy, meat, fruit, bread, etc) to stay healthy. It is that simple but ofcourse that doesn't make authors of weight loss books any money.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 01:35:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 01:31:51 pmFor the sake of completeness, are you willing to share the outcome of your endeavour?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 03:24:13 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 18, 2018, 01:35:45 pmApprox -23kg which got me well into the BMI region which says OK. That took me about 5 years. And I'm still not happy about having to give up Nutella on bread. Every now and then I allow myself one slice for old times' sake. Now the next step is going to keep my weight stable.

author: BocaDev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 03:42:42 pm
content: These postings make me depressed.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 03:43:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 03:24:13 pmGood job!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 03:44:06 pm
content: Quote from: BocaDev on June 18, 2018, 03:42:42 pmWhy?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 07:30:37 pm
content: Apparently I have athletes heart where resting bpm can drop to under 40 bpm:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndromeI don't train endurance though, 30min for cardio with some intervals is much more enjoyable.Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 18, 2018, 04:24:31 amYes this is a good point, try to adapt yourself to wearing less clothing (jackets, etc.) and sleep with minimal insulation. You will start to develop brown fat which will burn itself off to keep you warm.Meal frequency and timing (restricting when you eat or reducing number of meals), is another potential tool as well.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 09:11:54 pm
content: I'm trying to lose weight the same way now with help of voedingscentrum.nl (Dutch site), which has a food dairy that is easy to keep track of food energyandnutrients. I've also had to give up peanut butter and chocolate on bread, and eat 2 slices of bread less per day (8 to 6). Replaced it with chicken fillet and cheese spread (only 20+ variants) instead. That way I decreased kcal from bread intake by about 400 kcal per day.I've tried an intake of 1800kcal per day for a few weeks; important is to spread meals (+breakfast), eat food with plenty of fibers, keep hydrated. But realistically, any lower amount is pure torture and IMO will likely fail. Actually, this figure is better than it sounds, as I'm pretty sure my average is somewhere around 2 - 2.1Mcal when you also account for a few beers, cheat meals or crisps that one might have every now and then.Lost about 5kg in the first 2months, now it's going down slowly at 0.5 - 1kg per month. I think I've been slacking off lately a bit.Actually these posts make me somewhat sad as well. In the last half year I've been exercising with a physiotherapist to improve stability in my knees, muscle strength in my upper legs, and eventually reduce medial knee pain. I liked the physical exercise, as it is nice to clear you head after a long day or stressful times, but unfortunately physically there were only adverse effects for me. That is not to say it came as a big surprise, given my history with orthopedic surgeons.Unfortunately it does mean that I'm quite limited in my exercise options. For example, last few months I picked up basic cycling again, and it had a significant negative effect. I'm actually looking for alternative sports/workouts that don't put stress or repetitive movements on the knees. People have been recommending swimming to me, but my physiotherapist has recommended against it due to the instability (AFAIK applies to the breaststroke in particular). But maybe I should try it out if there are no alternatives..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 09:35:01 pm
content: Quote from: hans on June 18, 2018, 09:11:54 pmYou can try to swim mostly with your arms. You can also keep one leg still and switch between legs to reduce strain on your knees.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 09:55:03 pm
content: I don't work out.Changed my habit of eating chocolate mice on bread as breakfast over 20 years ago and switched to uneatable muesli consisting of 50 grams of quinoa, rye and buckwheat with soy milk.To make it eatable i fill it with fresh season fruit, in the winter that is only apple, pear and grapes, but in the summer strawberries, peach and whatever i can get my hands on.I discipline myself to eat this so I get at least one healthy meal to the book.What boggles my mind is that in the weekend if I get out of bed at 10am and eat this breakfast and do my hobbies I only get hungry around 3pm so 5 hours later.When during weekdays I eat this at 7am go to work I start to crave around 10am so Only three hours later.This leads me to conclude that ( for me personally) the hunger signals are psychologically influenced by the situation. I do not really really like my job it is not bad but not great so the food will give me comfort. While when I am doing something I really like, the hunger signal is only given when the body starts to get a problem (low bloodsugar).The other observation I would like to share is that even when I am green on the BMI (24) I am still overweighth since I am very tall but have thin bones. The proper way to determine if you are not overweighth is to take a rope with the length of half your height and fit it around the thickest part of your belly. This should fit, if you run out of rope (a gap) you have too much fat on your belly.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 10:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 18, 2018, 09:55:03 pmDoesn't this depend on age? I hope so

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 11:38:39 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 18, 2018, 01:16:16 pmI agree, reducing calorie intake can also result in a reduction in cravings. This is especially true if carbohydrate intake is cut, hence why low carb diets have been quite popular. This can also be a bad, as well as a good thing. It can make it easier to lose too much weight, too quickly. By the time cravings do start to emerge, it's too late, the damage is done! I've also experienced this too.QuoteAnd what do you consider to be good habits? In my opinion bad ones include: calorie counting, restricting, as well as just picking up the nearest high energy snack, such as a chocolate bar, are equally bad. In the past, they've made me fatter, rather than leaner.QuoteBut it's very relevant. Increasing activity levels is vital for long term, healthy weight loss. It's the sedentary lifestyle which is the real problem. Focusing on food alone, is not the way to tackle the problem. We need to do both!QuoteTechnically the calling it the Minisota starvation experiment was incorrect. None of the subjects stopped eating altogether and no one completely starved. It is very relevant to the discussion, because the striking thing about it was the energy deficit was similar to what's often recommended to those who need to lose weight, which is crazy, considering it resulted in rebound weight gain, above the starting weight.The question is what are healthy behaviours and what aren't? What's taking it to the extreme? It's a slippery slope. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.I've also not said that it's unhealthy to reduce energy intake, fullstop, just that restricting fat, calories, carbohydrates is. If someone is eating a too energy dense diet, then reducing the energy density of the food is healthy. What I see is unhealthy is the idea that one should actively seek to deprive themselves of food, especially when they're hungry: it doesn't end well!I agree it's a good idea to be aware of energy intake, expenditure and the energy density of different foods. This is all good stuff, but eating numbers, rather than food is unhealthy.I've I'd know all of this when I was younger I would have saved myself a lot of health problems. If I'd known that all I needed to do was get on my bike, I would have done it!Another thing to note is that just focusing on weight loss alone is silly. If someone is obese so they decide to run 5 miles a day, but hardly lose any weight, after two months, then they haven't failed! They've become more healthy. They would have have achieved fat loss, even if the number on the scale didn't change and it's very important not to overlook this. They should keep it up. Maybe they'll start to lose weight a year later? Perhaps not, but they shouldn't give up!QuoteThe appetite signal has served the human race and other animals very well for millennia, so I'd dispute that. Something else is messing with the appetite signal, which is what needs to be fixed, rather than teaching people to ignore it altogether, which is not healthy, in the long term.There are other more important questions, which need to be asked, to solve the problem. Calorie counting and restriction have been recommended as treatments for obesity for a long time, yet why have obesity rates since sawed? Why do some people need weight loss surgery? I don't believe in the slogan "If all fails, blame the patient!"Why do the hunter gathers referenced in the video, you posted earlier, not overeat, like the average American?Why did the average American not overeat 100 years ago, but they do now?Why do I no longer overeat, now I'm physically active, yet I did before? And in both cases, I listened to my appetite signal.Could it be because, over the long term, an active lifestyle and not too much energy dense food, makes overeating less likely?Both fat and lean people, who aren't on some diet, will be following their appetite signals, yet why are some of them fat and the others lean? Perhaps genetics play a role?Quote from: hans on June 18, 2018, 09:11:54 pmI've achieved similar figures to that in the past, through restriction alone. The problem is maintaining it. Good luck.QuoteHow about cycling? Or if that's too hard on the knees, then you could try rowing/Also, talk about about swimming, without using your legs (you can put a float between them to start with, before your arms a strong enough to go alone) with your physiotherapist.Quote from: Kjelt on June 18, 2018, 09:55:03 pmAnother possibility is you're burning more energy, when you go to work, than when you're at home.QuoteYes, BMI is just a rough indicator. My BMI is just over the 24 mark, but that rope would have 8cm of slack. Actually the ratio between waist and height is also quite rough, better than BMI, but still not perfect. The waist to hip ratio is a better measurement. Mine is a healthy 0.85. I used to be over 1, before I started cycling.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist%E2%80%93hip_ratio#Indicator_of_health

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2018, 11:57:34 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 18, 2018, 11:38:39 pmIMHO counting calories is a good thing to do because it makes you aware of what eating habits you need to change. Rushing things and being obsessive about losing weight isn't good and very likely to fail. You have to make long term adjustments to your eating habits even though saying no to pie and ice cream is hard.Having some physical exercise is good no matter what but if you have a lot of overweight then swimming is probably the best way because this doesn't strain your leg joints that much. Cycling could be a good option as well.QuoteWell it seems I have more work-out to do.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 12:15:15 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 18, 2018, 07:30:37 pmExcept for Naomi Wu (and how she likes to "show off"), everyone I know who is in the "eat a lot and stay skinny" category dress up no differently than normal people do. (They might wear less when at home, and in fact, that's what Allie Moore, an environmentalist, does during the summer for saving energy.) The idea that wearing less helps with losing weight does agree with what thermodynamics predicts.An interesting project could be some battery operated fans to blow cool air underneath clothes to increase thermal dissipation without looking too different. In a weight loss context, however, I expect it would be most useful to stay cool while exercising.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 12:46:46 am
content: Quote from: malagas_on_fire on June 17, 2018, 04:38:22 pmI actually never learned to swim properly, so whist I can "swim" it's (so I'm told) a hilarious display of brute force over technique.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 12:48:48 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 19, 2018, 12:15:15 amYou keep bringing up these internet women in almost every post, I suggest you seek professional counselling for this obsession, seriously.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 01:03:24 am
content: Recent article (but it's been known a long time) on how exercise improves various cognitive skills as you get older.https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/regular-exercise-changes-brain-improve-memory-thinking-skills-201404097110

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 01:08:21 am
content: Some interesting commentary on weight loss in this Joe Rogan podcast:The guy in the podcast Peter Attia seems to be a legit weight loss / longevity specialist.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 01:20:39 am
content: Another one, on fasting

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 02:26:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 19, 2018, 12:48:48 amPerhaps it should be better worded as 'With only one exception, everyone I know who is in the "eat a lot and stay skinny" category dress up no differently than normal people do.'On the topic of staying cool while doing physically demanding work outdoors, one unsuccessful attempt was by Rinoa Super-Genius who tried to use a Peltier to cool her down. The most obvious flaw is that the Peltier uses a lot of power which does not go well with portable devices, but the problem that made it unusable was that it attempted to pull out the heat over a small area, which is not very effective.My idea with the fan would use far less power and theoretically can work at least as well as the "low tech" solution that shows off too much in many environments.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 03:19:32 am
content: Quote from: hans on June 18, 2018, 09:11:54 pmI'm sad to read that. I started training seriously a few years ago, trying to rehabilitate an injured knee. My doctor said it would take eight weeks. It took two years.For six months I could barely walk. For another three months, I couldn't jog, not even a few metres. For another year or more, my knee would occasionally malfunction while running. The kneecap wouldn't track correctly, and almost jam, but then a few steps later would be fine. This glitch was exasperating, unnerving, and disheartening.But as luck would have it, even when I couldn't jog, I was problem-free on a stationary bike and an elliptical trainer. So I'd walk to the gym, and use them. I gave up leg strengthening exercises, because they seemed to make my knee worse.I started to lose confidence in my physiotherapist. Reading the medical literature, I worked out that my recovery was being held back by lingering Arthrogenic Muscle Inhibition (AMI). My physiotherapist seemed clueless about it, gym trainers didn't seem to know about it (not their specialty, so not their fault). My doctor's prognosis was way off (not his specialty, so not his fault)). It dawned on me that, despite well-meaning professionals doing their best, I had to solve this myself. Two years.And the same with nutrition, and training technique. Because it hit me, hard, that if I don't learn the how, what, and why, I'm at the mercy of well-meaning people who may simply be getting it wrong.I started off as fat as a department store Santa with arms like sticks, at 93 kg. Not through obvious overeating, just through inactivity and eating a "well-balanced" "conventional" diet recommended by the usual "Intellectuals Yet Idiots" that infest mainstream nutrition.My weight dropped to 73 kg over two years. Now it's 78 kg, but I'm leaner. I'm stronger now and lifting more weight than ever. The once-injured knee is symptom-free. My aerobic capacity is good but not outstanding. In my competitive cross-country running days, my resting bpm got as low as 39. Now it's 50 bpm, so I'm well short of my genetic potential. There is room for improvement, if I decide to pursue it.As I phased leg strength training back in, especially single-leg training like King deadlifts, I realized that it helped my running - more power on hills, more comfort when holding a fast pace just below a sprint, better running form when fatigued, so less joint strain. If you are an endurance athlete, I recommend (FWIW) power and strength training. It helps. You are more functional with it, and less prone to injury. The fact that hybrid training (training for strength, plus power, plus endurance) is still a controversy is just astonishing. Facepalm-worthy, really.To the OP: don't lose hope. Keep searching for something you can do, and enjoy. Maybe it's some form of swimming. Maybe some form of rowing - on machines or on water (I once knew a guy who used to kayak to work). Maybe something unusual you haven't tried. Keep looking.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 03:42:27 am
content: Quote from: hans on June 18, 2018, 09:11:54 pmMaybe take a look at isometrics, you load but with little to no movement. Used to do them when stuck in the car between classes.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 06:22:49 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 10:25:46 pmAFAIK it does not.Ten years ago I swam with a group of older friends, I was in my begin 40 and they were 55-65.I was always amazed they had this bellies while they were not really eating that much.Now if I look in the mirror I see the resemblanceProbably, I am not expert, your metabolism slows down with age, so you need less and less calories but your stomach is still the same size, your brains are not reprogrammed over the years and so the older you get the more extra calories you eat although you might eat less than in the past.Nature is cruel. Although nature would probably argue that the human body design was not made to last more than 30-40 years (average lifespan few thousand years ago) , so you can also look it at the positive side, these are the bonus years

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 06:24:45 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 18, 2018, 11:38:39 pmTrue, I wonder where and when then, because I am a desk jockey, perhaps the brain consumes more but that does not help me burn fat on my belly.I do walk to the coffeemachine more often than at homeQuote from: Hero999 on June 18, 2018, 11:38:39 pmThanks will check it out.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 08:16:33 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 18, 2018, 11:38:39 pmI think we're mostly agreeing. You seem very hesitant to monitor calories because you've gotten yourself in trouble with that in the past. It is a valid strategy and what most proper dietitians and doctors use. It works very well for a huge amount of people. There is indeed a risk that people lose themselves or overdo it. Obsessing over calories is obviously not the way to go and depriving yourself to the point that you're compensating with unhealthy foods isn't either. However, awareness of what you eat and what it means for your body is helpful. A lot of people don't have a clue what the stinkers are and that's what calorie counting helps with. Just make sure to treat it like a tool and not like a religion.Exercise should be part of maintaining a healthy weight, because your body simply functions better when you do. It can also help with the balance of energy, but people should be very aware it's essentially impossible to get to or maintain a healthy weight through exercise alone. The saying that losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise is fairly accurate. Exercise does support the moderation of energy intake in an excellent way and is a massive factor in your overall health, so exercise is always recommended.The appetite signal has served animals and mankind for millennia. The important difference is that during these millennia people and animals have have predominantly lived in food scarce situations. Most animals will keep eating while there's food. Humans have manipulated the world into a situation where food is essentially always available, so our appetite signal needs to adjust. We're more restrained than a lot of animals, but it's obvious we haven't adjusted to the new situation yet. We tend to prefer foods containing things that are quite rare in nature, like fat and sugar. Unfortunately the impulse to eat any of that we can find is hurting us now and refined foods sometimes mean we're attracted to foods that lack everything else that nature tries to get us to eat.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 08:25:37 am
content: Quote from: ChunkyPastaSauce on June 19, 2018, 03:42:27 amPlenty of stuff you can do.Swimming or water polo.RowingReformer PilatesOverhead ladder based stuff at the gym, and almost any gym workout that doesn't involve the knees much. A simple cable machine could workout almost your entire body.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 08:40:27 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 19, 2018, 08:16:33 amIt is repeatable for many persons that is why it is so popular, but people are not all the same.For instance I found out for my self by reading a book called the blood type diet that with my bloodtype I should not eat too many grains and esp. no wheat.Instead I should eat more meat and skip diary products esp. cowmilk.Now you can discuss this and I am not defending this book but it resulted in me experimenting with this a couple of years back.By dropping cowmilk intake, my skin on my back that was always pinkish like an allergy completely dissapeared for the first time in my life.No doctor/specialist ever could help me, it was also not burdening enough, but it lead me to believe that every human is unique and you don't get a manual at birth.So why treat all humans as being the same? I know for instance that a lot of asian people can not tolerate cow milk at all.The whole discussion now about cholesterol is also very typical, a wrong statistical experiment in the 70's lead to abandon animal fats.While the same fats give a fast saturation feeling which makes you stop eating more. In the meantime the foodindustry removed the fats from theirproducts and replaced them with..... sugarNow there is sugar in all industrial prepared food, in my crabsalad there is 5% sugar, no recepy of fresh crabsalad mentions any sugar.I can go on and on but my message is that you should listen to your own body and experiment what works for you, try to eat meals with fresh ingredients and skip the industrial garbage foods,which I also eat BTW.QuoteTrue, and besides your own discipline the food industry is there also part to blame, putting those "addictive" ingredients in great amounts into their products.And the portions are also becoming larger. Prices for the worst food are lower than for the fresh good food which also does not help.Here in Holland we are addicted to fried potatoe chips. When I was 10 the largest family bags were 100 grams and we ate with 4 persons from that.Now the bags are a ludicrous 225g and if I am not carefull I can eat half of the bag on my own during watching a movie.The trick is to downsize the industrial sizes, use a small cup and fill that with the chips and store the rest of the bag somewhere far far awayBest not to eat it at all indeed, I personally wish it was never invented

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 09:36:56 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 19, 2018, 08:40:27 amI agree that not everyone is the same. At the same time it seems many people have very strange ideas about food and health. People tell themselves they're special and that's why normal advice doesn't apply to them all the time, much like the "golden ear" people in the audiophoolery world. People don't like the simple truth because people don't like changing their habits and try to deny it with all sorts of creative reasoning. Add to that that there's an industry that continuously creates new fads and you get some very strange and very strongly defended opinions that are completely contrary to any sane medical knowledge or decades of experience. It's remarkable to hear doctors talk about the strange ideas their patients come in with and have to fight against.The blood type diet sounds like one of those invented ideas and a bit of research seems to confirm that. It's created by someone who calls himself a "naturopath", which is alternative medicine or non evidence based medicine. Research done indicates there no benifit to eating certain things when you have a certain blood type. Now, that doesn't mean the diet didn't help you. Not being able to cope with milk very well is quite common and it's very reasonable to think that an adjustment in intake helped you. Cow milk intolerance is hardly unique and actually a very common thing and completely accepted by conventional medicine. Individual humans generally have a unique combination of properties, but most of those properties are well known and described. Experimenting with what suits you is not a bad idea, but it's unlikely your body suddenly works completely different than that of any other or even breaks basic laws of nature.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 10:19:01 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 19, 2018, 09:36:56 amTo a certain extent they are different you also see that some medicines do not work on certain people.I agree that for most medical treatments you can generalize people and it works, so I would never disagree with a doctor or prescription, but also doctors are humans, most are specialist knowing a lot about a little part of the body. Doctors that know the entire body or how it all works together, can combine symptoms from one part of the body to an illness in another part is rare. That is why in the near future I hope AI will be able to combine and diagnose better than human doctors.QuoteVery true, change is frightening for a lot of people and some habits are hard to change. Related to health it sure is a factor, some habits have a subconscious psychological background, go find it outQuoteI only brought it up because it lead for me to a new insight, not that I want to defend it or propogate it.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 11:33:10 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 19, 2018, 08:25:37 amI recently started using cable machines as a variation. They are a very useful tool for building strength, and also for mobility work (range of motion).Exercises that use rubber bands can also be useful. On his Athlean-X you tube channel, Jeff Cavaliere recently posted a band exercise for external shoulder rotation:I've been trying it, and it feels useful. My new physio, an expert on shoulders, agrees it has value. So I've included Jeff's suggestion in a tri-set for shoulder health maintenance, something I now do near the end of each gym session.Athlean-X is a good source of info for strength conditioning. Jeff is knowledgeable and seriously strong. (But Dude, your dragon flag technique is a little bit sucky, OK? I know you can do better. C'mon.)Pilates and rowing seem like good options, depending on how the OP's knees feel under load.The other suggestion I'd make is yoga. Don't be fooled by the beginner stage. Intermediate-level yoga requires significant strength. At advanced levels, yoga has many elements similar to street-style workouts and gymnastics. I don't do it at the moment because, with my training schedule (all up, about 12 hours per week) I simply don't have the time, and my training focus is elsewhere.Beginner-level yoga may help with leg strength, joint stability, and reprogramming of comprised movement patterns. Take it easy. Just do what you can, and let your body adapt.Turnover rate of skeletal muscle is about 90 days (I've heard). In 90 days, you have replaced, say, your biceps muscle with new tissue. Turnover in connective tissue like joints, tendons, ligaments is about 270 days. It's slower. The blood supply is far less plentiful, there. So it takes longer for connective tissue to adapt to training loads.The number one rule in all conditioning is don't get injured. Injury sucks big-time. Bail out fast if you feel your instructor doesn't know what he/she is doing. Good luck.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 07:48:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 19, 2018, 08:25:37 amYes definitely; I just meant for knees

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 08:09:10 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 18, 2018, 09:55:03 pmStress and lack of sleep will cause overeating and possibly desire for simple carbohydrates. I'm guessing 7am is early for you to wake up.https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20120314/sleep-less-eat-more#1https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/prevention-and-screening-articles/sleep-loss-boosts-hunger-and-unhealthy-food-choicesQuoteLow blood sugar is not really a problem unless you are diabetic IMO. I don't eat from 10pm until 1pm or so. You can train yourself to go longer (see video dave linked), but it may take a lot of effort to get used to it.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 09:10:51 pm
content: Thanks all for the responses to my open invitation.Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 19, 2018, 03:19:32 amThat's nice to read how you bounced back on own willpower and research.With the risk of going more OT, but I would like to explain my history with orthopedic surgeons. I've had osteotomy to both upper legs. 20 degrees of malrotation plus some X-leg was corrected. Pre-op I had daily sore knees (to put it lightly) from just a light/regular day routine. That's gone now fortunately for ~3 years.Unfortunately around the same time, medial knee symptoms started to appear (as well as a light variant of jumper's knee). It started in a period when I was walking quite a lot, probably too much for too long. Ironically it was when I was at a rehabilitation center. However at first they didn't want to recognize this as an issue, and waived it away as just some sore muscles from the increased physical effort. But it stuck along.This year I went to the 3rd physiotherapist, that suspected I got a large Q angle which is probably a residual given my history. We worked on more strengthening and coordination exercises. Although performing exercises greatly improved, the symptoms only got worse after training (and dissipate with rest).I'm not getting my hopes up for anything useful short-term when I visit my doctors again later this year. I suspect they either focus on the Q angle (there is some residual in lower leg), or can't find anything at all. Either way, finding a way to get more into shape without a cure worse than the problem is key for me to sustain it. Since I've stopped training, I do recognize that my energy levels has dropped.I think it's similar to a dieting; you don't want to make the scheme so strict that it feels like a punishment. It must become a new balance in your week schedule at some point.Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 09:35:01 pmQuote from: Hero999 on June 18, 2018, 11:38:39 pmQuote from: ChunkyPastaSauce on June 19, 2018, 03:42:27 amQuote from: EEVblog on June 19, 2018, 08:25:37 amOut of the choices given, I think I should try swimming first, but should talk with my physiotherapist again if breaststroke is a good idea. I've also read about aquajogging, maybe worth trying out.I can say that light cycling for a few km is usually fine. Walking 1-2km tops at the moment. I'm not sure if rowing is a good idea, as it's a repetitive bending motion. Maybe worth trying out later on.I've tried isometric training with at the rehalibitation center and I didn't really see much benefits. But given their ignorance maybe it's worth retrying it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 10:34:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 11:57:34 pmI agree about being aware of the energy density of foods and your requirements. The problem with following a restricted calorie diet is, it's very unnatural. Measuring everything and looking at the labels is just a pain. Another issue is people's energy requirements , i.e. their basil metabolic rate, vary dramatically and can't be easily determined by weight and height calculations, so how much one should be eating is difficult to predict. If your BMR is only 100Kcal different from what the calculations predict, then you'll theoretically lose or gain a lot of weight, over the long term, by sticking to that diet, although in reality, your body will adjust somewhat, to prevent it.QuoteI agree, doing lots of impact work, if you're carring too much weight isn't good. I agree with you about swimming. I suppose I also chose cycling because I've had problems with my knee joints in the past, but in my case, that could have been malnutrition, just as much as jogging.QuoteSorry if I made you feel bad.Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 19, 2018, 08:16:33 amThe trouble is it didn't happen all in one go. I've struggled with my weight for a long time. Looking back I had issues with disordered eating, long before it became clinically diagnosable. The striking thing is it wasn't the disordered eating, which was initially responsible for the weight gain, but attempts to lose weight, which resulted in disordered eating. Later more weight gain came, as a result of the eating disorder, but that's a different story.It I told a doctor, what I was doing to lose weight at the start, they probably would have given me plenty of encouragement, because it's the recommended dietary advice for weight loss. What concerns me is I've met people who are trying to lose weight and many of them seem to be experiencing the symptoms of an eating disorder, just not to the extent where it's clinically diagnosable or having a significant impact on their well-being. I don't want others to make the same mistake as me!Recovery for me involved seeing a counsellor, dietician, who both advised me to cease any attempts at controlling my weight and relearning to listen to my appetite signal. My weight fluctuated for a bit, before settling at a "too fat" level for a couple of years. This wasn't healthy but it was certainly less unhealthy than having an eating disorder, which had a much higher mortality rate, than just being a bit overweight. Later on I discovered, by accident, that exercise would bring my weight back down to a healthy level. It was not intentional. I originally started pedal cycling to work because it was easier and safer than my motorbike. The weight came off and now I'm very fit and healthy.Now I'm aware that there's also a link between excessive exercise and disordered eating and it was even a part of my eating disorder: I used to run excessively! I'm monitoring the situation, mindful of the signs of relapse or exercise obsession.QuoteWell I'm doing it quite well thank you. I think it's because I'm doing a lot of cardio. It's difficult to estimate the amount I actually burn. If I put the speed, distance and my statistics into one of those online calculators, I get about 600Kcal to 700kCal, but it's likely to be more than that, since it just takes my average speed. It doesn't take into account that I spend some time stopping, decelerating and accelerating, the effects of wind and hills. I'm well aware of the fact that, in theory all I need to do is eat little bit more extra with every meal and I could gain the weight back, but something is preventing that from happening: it's remained stable. I think my increased level of fitness has resulted in my body is managing its energy balance better than before.QuoteBut the obesity epidemic has happened very recently. It wasn't a problem 100 years ago and there wasn't a widespread famine in most of the US and Europe back then. It also doesn't explain why some people are lean and others fat and self-control doesn't seem to be a significant factor.Also what happens if we make people eat too much? How fat do they get? Well not that much, check out the opposite of the Minnesota starvation experiment, the The Vermont Prison Overfeeding Study.http://idealbodyweights.blogspot.com/2009/08/vermont-prison-overfeeding-study.htmlEven given a huge caloric surplus, people struggled to gain 20% over their initial starting weight. Clearly something else is going on here.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2018, 01:12:18 am
content: Quote from: hans on June 19, 2018, 09:10:51 pmExactly right. The goal is to improve your life, not make it worse.When I make changes, I make them gradually, usually one at a time, and assess how I am adapting. What complicates it is sometimes you feel a little worse, temporarily, before you feel better. Physiotherapy and yoga can be like that.Quote from: hans on June 19, 2018, 09:10:51 pmSome people enjoy working out in water. In one case that I know, an overweight middle-aged woman was ordered by her surgeon to undergo water-based rehab exercises, otherwise he wouldn't operate on her leg. She came to like the workouts so much, she turned into a fitness enthusiast - a complete turnaround.Gymnasts do a lot of isometric training, especially near the end ranges of motion (fully flexed, fully extended). It can build serious strength. The risk to connective tissue is high if you are not prepared for it, or if you try to progress too far too soon. That's a problem because connective tissue injuries can take a long time to heal.I lucked out because I found some activities that I could manage and enjoy. Cycling initially was a little uncomfortable, so I did it once a week only, with moderate intensity, and let my knee adapt. The setup and my position on the bike mattered. With the bike set up one way (seat/ handlebar position and height), my quads seemed to be doing most of the work, and my knee protested more. Set up another way, my glutes took on more of the load (which they should), and I felt more comfortable. Cycling forums go into exhaustive detail about this, in pursuit of maximum power output and efficiency.Keep searching for what works for you. Good luck.

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2018, 02:31:29 am
content: I am almost 73 years old and have never been fat. I was an athlete in my teens then I did not exercise until after a heart attack 9 years ago. I nearly died but the doctor opened two blocked heart arteries. Now I do not drink alcohol or smoke anymore and I eat less cholesterol. Mild medications reduce my blood pressure and cholesterol and thin my blood. I ride a bicycle, run and walk every day. Now I am so healthy I feel like I am in my 30ies.

author: christopherwatkins
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 07:22:10 pm
content: Stress and lack of sleep affect me in a different way, because of this I lose my weight and feel constantly tired. In the comments above, I read that someone is overeating and gaining weight because of this. So I can say that it affects everyone in different ways. As for sports, I can't live without workouts. I go to the gym 3 times a week, sometimes I work out at home. But I'm still not satisfied with the result, so I decided to take a course of steroids to build muscle. After reading this articlesteroidcycle.org, I stopped being afraid of side effects and will consult with a nutritionist to get a small dose of steroids to avoid health problems.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 09:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: christopherwatkins on June 13, 2020, 07:22:10 pmYes stress and lack of sleep can affect people in different ways, weight-wise. Either weight gain or loss is normally considered to be a bad side effect, if it's due to stress.Try to eat little, high energy dense food and often. Plenty of fruit and vegetables are important, but bear in mind, if you're struggling with weight loss, they can occupy space in your stomach, better taken up by more calorific foods. Banana and avocado are good, high energy density fruits, the latter being more like a vegetable as it's savoury. Nuts and oily fish such as mackerel are healthy, high energy foods. Having an energy dense snack half an hour before bedtime is also a good idea. I'd recommend, a cup of hot chocolate, a couple of biscuits and a banana longs as the chocolate isn't too strong, as it contains caffeine.Anyway how's everyone doing? For those who had recently embarked on a fitness/weight loss plan, when they originonaly posted, have they managed to stick to it?I've being cycling a bit less recently, not through lack of motivation, but because it's a risky activity and I don't want to end up in hospital. I still cycle to work, but have stopped going for a ride at lunchtime and take a half hour walk instead. The last time I was weighed was before the lockdown and I'd lost a little bit more weight, since posting in this thread last,: my BMI was down from just over 24, to just under 23. It's possible I've gained a little bit, since I've being cycling less, but it won't be much and I measured my waist last week, which was well within the healthy range.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 11:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: christopherwatkins on June 13, 2020, 07:22:10 pmMake sure you get your proteins, the body cannot manufacture those and they are critical for well being.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 03:29:08 am
content: Good way to reuse old equipment that's way obsolete or not worth fixing, as well as large transformers that have now largely been replaced by switchers.BTW, I wonder how many could say they own a switching supply heavy enough to get a decent workout with. I certainly do - a Prius inverter that I'm converting into a solar inverter - although it's actually relatively light (~30lbs) for the power level.Quote from: SilverSolder on June 14, 2020, 11:38:56 pmTofu is one good source but make sure you get organic and/or Non-GMO - the regular stuff is likely to contain GMOs tainted with harmful pesticides.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 06:27:18 am
content: 2020 year in review work out log : hung barbell plates from a crimp to see what happensnow that this thread some how revived and I remembered what gravity is, i expect to walk funny some time next month ( don't really give a shit because of the virus and economy).

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 08:45:06 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 15, 2020, 03:29:08 amLinear is the only way to go for sheer mass! This little lot is mine - though I can't say it's ever occurred to me to use them as actual gym equipment...https://cawteengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/663xB-PSU-stack.jpg12.7 kg (28lb) each, qty 5, which is almost my own body weight in power supplies.Before lockdown my regular sport was (is!) archery... great for building up a certain group of back muscles that aren't really used for much else. Our club is back up and running now, but not shooting for a couple of months has taken its toll and I can't draw my bow with any degree of control or technique. After a couple of dozen shots on my first session back I had to stop, and I've switched to limbs with a lighter draw weight to try and build back up again.The irony is that archery is done in an outdoor field with plenty of space between participants, so shutting it down was much more an unfortunate side-effect of the indiscriminate closure of sports clubs, rather than it being an inherently risky activity that really needed to be put on hold. </rant>Instead I took advantage of the fantastic weather we've been enjoying, dug out my old MTB and started cycling again. That soon led to 'I really fancy a new bike', and then, 'I want to keep this up when the weather inevitably turns bad'. Somehow I've now ended up with a full Zwift setup and a genuine curiosity as to what my FTP might be. (Apparently it doesn't mean File Transfer Protocol to a cyclist!)

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 03:21:18 pm
content: I use my rowing machine for cardio and I do squats, deadlifts, strict press, and bench press/incline bench press. I do some other stuff as well but that's the core stuff. I'm not inhibited by gyms since ive got everything at home which is nice because I can wake up, work out, and start my day.I'm not sure I'd say a 30lb power supply can give you agoodwork out since it'll be awkward to manipulate but it can definitely give you some exercise. It could also just give you some real injuries.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 06:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 15, 2020, 03:29:08 amPesticides are not GMOs. Further, every agricultural product harvested for consumption is genetically modified either by direct DNA manipulation or selective breading. GMO is not a chemical, it's a condition.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 06:13:48 pm
content: That's very true. Without GMO's many many more people would have starved.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 07:55:49 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 15, 2020, 08:45:06 amI had to lookup Zwift but it is for indoor cycling. My parents made such a setup to cycle indoors with the Covid risk. Indoor cycling seems boring to me so I have invested in extra outfits I can use to cycle outside when it is cold and / or rainy. And I replaced the front roller brake in my bike with a V-brake. Roller brakes are so crap it is criminal to sell bicycles fitted with such bad brakesFortunately the pools re-opened a couple of weeks ago so swimming round in the pool I go.Dave's excersizes are no good to me BTW. One bad wrist.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 10:32:44 pm
content: Quote from: Ground_Loop on June 15, 2020, 06:11:53 pmGMO can be goo or bad for pesticides. If a crop is genetically engineered to be resistance to a certain disease or pest, then fewer pesticides are used. On the other hand, if it's generically engineered to be resistant to a weedkiller, such as glyphosate, more pesticides will be used.In any case, I'm not sold on the idea of non-GMO/organic always being better/more healthy. Levels of potentially dangerous chemicals in food are very tightly regulated and most people will be exposed to some level of pesticide, just by breathing. The only reason is because it's better for the environment, but even that isn't clear cut, if a non-GMO/organic food requires more space, water and has a higher carbon foot print, than a conventional alternative, it's not good. Lots of the organic food market seems to be more about making money, than the environment or health.If you're really worried about toxins, then campaign for reductions in air pollution. You inhale fare more dangerous shit just by walking down the street, than you consume in food. Oh and don't burn wood, it produces far more nasty carcinogens such as benzene than diesel and yet BBQs also produce lots of carcinogens, so don't have one too often.Whilst we're on the subject of health and nutrition. Ignore all those dumb videos/articles listing foods not to eat. If you listen to all of them, you'd quickly starve to death. The ketotards say avoid carbs which gets rid of most food, the veganknobs avoid anything which has touched an animal and even green vegetables are unhealthy because they contain small amounts of toxins and anti-nutrients. Then there are the other clueless nutjobs such as those advocating paleo or raw foods, of which neither are practical or that healthy: the actual palaeolithic diet varied depending on the location and season, humans only prospered when we invented agriculture and we evolved to eat cooked food! If I see any such shit in the title of a YouTube video, it gets an automatic dislike from me and I don't bother to watch it. There are no good/bad foods: everything in moderation.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 10:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2020, 10:32:44 pmIt has been an eye opener for me, here in the slower covid-19 times, to start tracking a little more closely the sum total calories distributed over fats vs. carbohydrates vs. proteins during a day. I realized I was not really eating in a balanced way at all. Obviously if you're not looking, it isn't easy to steer...

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 11:02:57 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 19, 2018, 10:34:37 pmOne of my friends, who is very skinny despite eating a lot, seems to be good evidence of that theory. She took a selfie with a thermal camera and she's glowing fairly brightly over a large area, pointing to a high thermal dissipation. Sadly, she did that after COVID-19 started so it would be a while before it would be possible to do a side by side comparison with a more "normal" person.She also said that her family members were also on the skinny side, supporting the idea that genetics plays a big role. (Not to mention that Asians in general tend to be skinnier.)Quote from: Ground_Loop on June 15, 2020, 06:11:53 pmThe GMOs in question are designed to be more resistant to pesticides, to allow more use. Also, selective breeding is quite distinct from artificially editing the DNA - GMO refers to the latter.The reason to go Non-GMO might not be so much the GMOs in themselves but rather the pesticides used with them. There's also a lot of ethics issues around GMOs, like suing nearby farms for unauthorized use.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2020, 11:11:49 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 15, 2020, 10:38:19 pmWhat is a balanced way?There are many theories about what a balanced diet is, but it really isn't that critical. Look around the world and through human history and you'll find people who mostly eat sugars in the form of fruits and cane, to those who subsist almost entirely off animal products. People bitch about processed foods, but people have eaten a lot of that too, without any ill-effects. The most important nutrients in your diet are energy (whether it be from mostly fat or carbohydrates doesn't matter) and protein. Micronutrients are important, but you can survive for longer without them, than you can without the macros.Being aware of what you're eating is a good thing, but there's no point in obsessing about it too much, just eat everything in moderation and do plenty of exercise and make sure you ger your heat rate up: short high intensity, seems to be more beneficial, than doing huge distances, slowly.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 12:04:52 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 15, 2020, 11:11:49 pmApparently, proteins are a "must have" - the body doesn't produce them, so they are non-negotiable. I've cut down meat a lot, without appreciating this little fact, LOL! Once proteins are covered (and they only need to be covered, not over-done), the distribution between fats and carbs is largely cultural and perhaps climate driven.From what I've gleaned so far, "balanced" means approximately 20% of your calories should come from protein, 20% from fat, and the rest carbs.

author: pardo-bsso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 01:36:11 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 15, 2020, 03:29:08 amNice, I'm green of jealousy at all those scopes.But on the shed I have (somewhere...) an old vacuum tube chart recorder and some nje lab supplies that pack quite a bit of weight.When I was able to go to the street I mainly did cycling. But last year started also with aerial silks and that's the best sport (?) I ever did in terms of overall exercise.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 01:56:45 am
content: i would not recommend lifting weird shit unless you figure out what you can normally lift with proper form in a dead lift or squat and reduce the weight heavily because chances are you will use bad form and overload a stabilizer musclethe last thing you want is long lasting pain that makes you want to do nothingthose exercises are great once you have an idea of your core strength and you use them carefully to work an unusually large muscle group compared to standard lifts, but at reduced strain, and god knows what is a safe limit for a weird object (thankfully the Olympic lifts have been around for a long time and doctors figured out what they do to a safe extent so long its not super heavy (those are still debatable and the debate is fueled by levels of testosterone few people know). I have a feeling mainframe lifters are going likely to end up with convulsions. Not to mention unless you have handles on the thing you are lifting, its likely lifting stupid, making you feel weak, and it is likely not repeatable in terms of position and center of mass.A barbell actually has lines on it so you know where to put your hands, and clips to secure the weights in the exact position. And the thing has bearing so the weights are free to rotate and do not torque your body. Its kind of exact. You should actually oil them once in a while.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 07:01:44 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 16, 2018, 05:28:20 pmUsed to cycle a good amount (5,000+ miles per year) but we moved and we had a kid and now I do weight training with barbells.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 01:19:38 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 16, 2020, 12:04:52 amYes, you need a complete protein source, but that can easilly be derived from plants, by eating a range of different foods. Some plant protein sources are complete, but combining more than one plant food, can make a complete protein food.The amount of protein you should be eating is debatable and depends on your activity levels. If you're more active, then you need more protein, but most of the extra energy should come from carbohydrates.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 01:28:30 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 17, 2020, 01:19:38 pmI thought fats are OK nowadays - i.e. unsaturated fats as in olives / olive oil, walnuts, etc. etc. - with no limit imposed other than staying below about 35% of the daily calorie intake as an absolute max?One of the big surprises to a nutrition n00b like me, was (a) how much fat there is in dairy products, and (b) the fats are all the "bad" saturated type! Sadly, as I love milk, cheese, youghurt, and the rest of it, and can't be dealing with reduced strength versions! (I'd rather have 1/4 glass of whole milk than a full glass of skimmed, if you see what I mean.)

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 06:44:04 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 17, 2020, 01:28:30 pmI didn't say fats weren't OK and even saturated fat isn't all that bad, because it's often found in foods high in other nutrients.Where did you get the 35% maximum fat for daily calorie intake from fat? The proportion depends on your activity levels. People who are less active are probably better getting a higher proportion of their calories from fat. Carbohydrates should increase with activity levels, but it really doesn't matter that much. I find I naturally tend to be drawn towards high carbohydrate foods, when I've been active for awhile, so it's not something I worry about.Don't worry too much about what you eat. People obsess about it too much.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 07:13:44 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 17, 2020, 06:44:04 pmTotal fat intake should account for 20 to 35 percent of your daily calories, according to MayoClinic.com. (Mayonnaise clinic??) The number is a range, not an absolute, to fit with your lifestyle and food preferences.There is an excellent downloadable PDF here:https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/current-dietary-guidelines/2015-2020-dietary-guidelinesI agree about not obsessing about this. I have never, ever, given a fig about what I eat.... but now the doctor is complaining about high lipid levels in the blood, so I'm trying to avoid being put on statins and similar drugs by paying a little attention (the minimum possible!) to what I am eating. It is actually quite interesting, when you look at it as an engineering challenge! (And it is working - the last blood test had a 30% improvement, yay!)

author: greasemonkey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 07:47:00 pm
content: Maybe carbohydrates are the problem.I am 42 and 1,83m tall. I don't exercise but my work is relatively active (I am a real life grease monkey). I try to sleep for 8 hours every night and eat almost no carbohydrates.This is my weight during the previous year. Can you guess when I stopped eating carbohydrates?I was skeptical at first but it really works.Suggested reading:Gary Taubes -The case against sugarGary Taubes -Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About ItDavid A. Sinclair -Lifespan: Why We Age - and Why We Don't Have ToMatthew Walker -Why We Sleep

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 08:28:45 pm
content: That's most likely just due to calorie intake. It's really easy to get a ton of calories eating lots of carbs. You just equate it to carbs because you think it's carbs. If you watch how much you eat and know your RMR it's really easy to lose or maintain weight(obviously it's usually pretty easy to gain weight).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 08:54:47 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 17, 2020, 08:28:45 pmNot likely. IT IS the lower calorie intake. But it has nothing to do with carbohydrates specifically. You can also reduce intake of other high calorie food like sugar and fat. Losing weight is very simple: eat & drink less calories than you burn. Where the calories (don't) come from doesn't matter. The whole anti-carbohydrates movement is complete BS. Same as anti-5G and anti-vaccination loonies.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 09:17:53 pm
content: I know, I was trying to be nice.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 09:47:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2020, 08:54:47 pmYou are correct about total surplus calories gained after digestion of the food you eat is key.You are also correct that for most of us the anti-carbohydrates movement and especially how they market it as a blanket solution for all is complete BS.However, for some of us who have an unusual appetite based on volume of food eaten, where carbs do create a massive influx of quick sugar/calories in our bodies, relying on much slower, longer to digest foods does help prevent taking in way too much calories because of the higher volume of food required to attain the same number of surplus calories after digestion.Also, usually, with proper selection, low carb (getting rid of all surplus sugars (in all processed forms) and food with refined white flour) can be very healthy in the long run. (And I am not talking about a BS all protein/fat diet.)If you haven't been there, with an impossible to control appetite of a literal horse, back and forth in weight, tested the different strategies measured over decades, and finally succeeded, you do not know... Actually, all the marketers of the anti-carbohydrates movement are also completely in the dark without a clue as well. It is only luck that a minuscule fraction of a fraction of a percent of those who jump on the no-carb bandwagon get positive results and spread the word while the truth is usually that by luck, following the no-carb rules they eliminated 1 or 2 super calorie dense items in their day-to-day diet which was all they needed to do from the start instead of eliminating everything except meat & fat.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 10:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: greasemonkey on June 17, 2020, 07:47:00 pmYes, as mentioned above, it's because you reduced your calorie intake. I've done it before and read similar bullshit to that linked in your post. It does work and in many respects it's easier to cut carbs, than fat, because it reduces appetite levels to some degree. I've even preached low carb to others in the past!Unfortunately it's not healthy in the long term. I can speak from personal experience. The constipation and bad breath are not nice. It's also easy to lose weight too quickly on that diet.Going by that graph, you didn't need to lose weight in the first place and have done so too quickly. You're 1.83m tall, so were much more healthy at the 80kg, when you started, than at 70kg now and if your fat loss is accurate at 4kg, then you've more muscle (6kg, although some will be water) and could have increased your body fat percentage. All you've done is made yourself malnourished, not more healthy. If you can't stop this, then seek medical advice.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 10:11:05 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 17, 2020, 07:13:44 pmThat seems like a sensible guideline, but people differ somewhat.I agree about not obsessing about this. I have never, ever, given a fig about what I eat.... but now the doctor is complaining about high lipid levels in the blood, so I'm trying to avoid being put on statins and similar drugs by paying a little attention (the minimum possible!) to what I am eating. It is actually quite interesting, when you look at it as an engineering challenge! (And it is working - the last blood test had a 30% improvement, yay!)How active are you? If not, try doing some cardiovascular exercise. Short bursts of high intensity might help more than longer, less intense exercise. If you're not used to it, just do enough to get youself slightly out of breath, rest for long enough to recover and repeat a couple of times.Good on you for improving your blood test results!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 10:22:34 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 17, 2020, 09:47:16 pmI think I've been there... IMHO the solution to an unhealthy appetite is not switching to food that fills your stomage. That is just a short term solution with an unbalanced diet as well. A long term solution is switching the lifestyle and that does take effort. Years of effort. Burning the calories you eat is actually only a small part (or better put: a result) of the entire process. Maybe you can even speak of getting rid of an addiction.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 10:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 17, 2020, 07:13:44 pmHmm, a USDA written report...Yes, Americans food supply and what they end up eating and how it is prepared is for the most part crap beyond belief.Even their best cuts of meats/poultry/pork have the texture and taste of heart-attack on a plate. Their grains, and even so-called whole wheat grains (some of which actually are fake) is a refined processed poison. However, finding quality sources for most of the food costs a mountain of money which we don't all have unless you are willing to make sacrifices somewhere else in your life.Eat healthy quality sourced food you are in control of by preparing it yourself from scratch. Just choose what your appetite requires, so long as you left eating and drinking process junk long ago, you will do fine. If you haven't un-trained a poor junk-food tendency appetite, well, for your health, I would say learn.As an example, trying to find a healthy adult 1kg chicken today is nearly impossible. An don't be fooled about today's 4kg adult chickens, saying that the breast meat is lean. It is has fat mixed in it compared to the 1957 variety shown in the photo below. Even the 1978 variety looks ok. But the 2005 variety doesn't look natural or healthy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 11:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 17, 2020, 10:39:44 pmIMHO you are buying too much into FUD spread by 'foodies'. I've been in a chicken slaughterhouse many times and I can assure you that the breast meat from the chicken is pure meat. I've seen it coming out of the chickens with my own eyes. Ofcourse things are different if you buy (low grade) products which are not made from chicken breast but minced chicken meat. Then they mix in fat and other cheap ingredients. In the end you get what you pay for. If you want really tasty meat then buy the bio-meat but it gets expensive quickly.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 02:33:16 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 17, 2020, 10:11:05 pmThank you and yes, I have upped the exercise levels from... in all honesty, near zero... to about an hour a day, including 10 -15 mins of elevated cardio. Plus some strength training thrown in. I feel so much better I realize I've been an idiot for not getting started earlier... - I'm hoping the blood tests will look even better in the summer, for the next test!

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 02:42:49 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2020, 11:34:25 pmYou clearly haven't been forced to live and eat in the USA for 6 months straight when traveling...The poultry here is Canada is generally much better. Even the cheap stuff.And yes, after eating each cheap meal in the US, you do feel like your entire body is supporting a heavy weight. It really is that bad unless you are in a few specific cities, or once again you know what and where to buy.Yes, I brought friends from the US to Montreal for a few weeks and everyone of them did taste and feel the difference of even our cheapest food let alone the really good stuff.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 02:48:49 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 02:42:49 amIt's hard to eat cheap and eat well at the same time, it seems to me. It's hard enough to eat well even without worrying about costs yet!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 08:29:25 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 17, 2020, 10:39:44 pmI agree that modern poultry farming and buthcering processes in the USA are disgusting. They way they allow the meat to get covered in shit, then wash it of with chlorine is truely revolting and is why many here in the UK are against a trade deal which would allow such shit to be imported. I doubt that has much to do with obesity though.Obesity is a worldwide problem. It might have started in the USA, but it's now everewhere. People have eaten grains for milenia, without getting fat. Food is only part of the problem. A big contributing factor is lack of exercise. The USA was the first country where car ownership became the norm, followed by most of Europe, Canada, Austraila etc. at the same time mechanisation replaced physical jobs and TV and finally gaming replaced more physical leasure activites such as sport.Losing weight by following a very restrictive diet works, but it's not very healthy. It's only suitable for those who are obese and unable to engage in enough physical activity, due to age/disability. In those cases it probably makes more sense to reduce calories from carbohydrates, starting with the refined type of course, than fat, but ketosis should still be avoided.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:49:43 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 18, 2020, 08:29:25 amNow listen carefully, secret #1: Eating grains...Purchase bread and pasta made from "Sprouted Whole Wheat". This is in line with the grains people have eaten for milinea without getting fat.I know this type of bread isn't soft squeezy like the normal supermarket bread we are use to, but you will not get fat from eating this stuff. It is not refined white or semi-BS whole wheat flour. It contains almost everything from the wheat grain, but usually you can only find this type of bread in the health food or organic section of your supermarket.(I went haywire when I had to move from a my old house where a local pizzeria made their own pizza dough and had a true authentic sprouted whole wheat dough. (they thought it was normal whole wheat, but, I could tell since I purchase the sprouted whole wheat bread and I recognized it's taste and texture) The delivery guy was going insane over the 3 years a decade ago I lost over 100lb(45kg) on a few x-large triple-mushroom and cheese pizzas a week.) (This is what happens when a small mom&pop pizza joint who makes everything from scratch using their own ingredients)Remember, today's white flour breads have added fat, sugar, has nothing bot the bottom end complex carbs which easily break down into more sugar. Added preservatives are doing a number too. It's also missing the healthy parts of the grain which is why many breads has vitamin fortification.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 11:00:32 am
content: Just so you know what we are up against in North America:And it's not just Subway... Even most of the breads on our supermarket shelf which claim whole wheat are fake too.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 11:59:49 am
content: I work out a great deal. A lot more than most people.I work out the causes of bugs in a design.I work out values of components for a design.I work out how to keep costs down.I work out how to fix appliances around the home.I work out mathematical problems.I work out algorithms.But I cannot work out whether to take a ocean cruise on a luxury liner Carnival Splendour. 9 days in the south pacific for US $350 scheduled for late January. Too hard to work out.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 12:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 10:49:43 amYes, the soft white sliced "sandwich bread" that you get in the USA and also UK superficially tastes good, but the nutritional value is terrible... it is known as "toast bread" in parts of continental Europe, where they have real bread! Thankfully it seems to be going out of fashion.I'll test a loaf of the sprouted whole wheat variety, sounds interesting!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 12:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 12:08:55 pmYes. That toast bread is horrible. And super-market bread doesn't have to be bad. I'm usually eating a corn based one. It stays good (fluffy) for 3 to 4 days and yet it doesn't contain any artificial additive.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 01:58:35 pm
content: No sooner said than done (almost!), I picked up a loaf of sprouted rye bread. The big deal with the sprouted grain seems to be the much higher protein content, which is very cool, given that most bread seems to be all carbs! (e.g. the carb to protein ratio even for decent quality bread is nearly 10:1, whereas for the sprouted loaf I just got it is 5x better at 2:1)

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:07:13 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 12:08:55 pmEat nothing but any of the many varieties of sprouted bread for a year, and if you ever end up tasting normal white toasted bread after that, it will taste like sick empty nutritionless mush.Even on my homemade burgers, (1lb of minced pork filet-minion, cooked rare), I use 2 slices of sprouted bread as the bun. Though, I lightly toast them too. I prefer Sprouted 9 grain bread, or strict sprouted whole wheat. Note that some of the breads I buy say they contain no flour at all. (LOL, to think I manage to keep off over 140lb of fat eating like this for years now, and before I got my back injury, my total weight loss went from 333lb to 165lb, achieved in my mid 40s.)As for the sprouted spaghetti / pasta, I make my own organic tomato sauce with onions, garlic, mushrooms, salt, fresh ground pepper, chilies flakes, oregano, basil and added minced pork filet-minion.(Pork Filet Minion is leaner than normal beef Filet Minion and here in Quebec, I can get it at a lower price than normal lean grade AAA minced beef, or minced turkey breast. Minced Filet Minion also makes great rare burgers, however, it now costs an arm and a leg. After cooking, it has no heavy grease or oil whatsoever.)Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 01:58:35 pmSounds like you picked the good stuff. Be careful, I've seen sprouted bread which still are mostly flour and have the sprouted germs as a final addition to the ingredient list. You will know as true sprouted grain bread does not have a soft/spongy and squishy center, or, if the bread states it contains no flour, or it is a flour-less bread.Shop around for sprouted/spelt dark brown pasta, there exist brands which are within 1$ or less of cheap normal pasta.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:33:02 pm
content: Also, I found it is safe to put sprouted breads in the fridge. Refrigerated, their shelf life increases to a few months as long as they were fresh before you placed the in the fridge. I have no choice but to buy the bread in bulk here as the local stores purchases them at a limited quantity because of their price and being a niche product, and it appears I'm not the only one in my town who is on the hunt for these breads.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:34:13 pm
content: The taste of the sprouted rye is quite nice... will try the other varieties as time goes - winner, winner, chicken dinner!I'll be trying the sprouted pasta products too. - It's really difficult to find food with a lot of protein if you are trying to cut down on meat and dairy (saturated fats).

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:35:27 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 03:33:02 pmDo you have Trader Joe in Canada/Quebec? - they had a reasonable range of sprouted grain products when I looked this morning.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 03:34:13 pmPork filet has very little heavy saturated fat, well, the Canadian AAA grade pork filet appears to be in that category.In the US, I would only trust the most expensive beef Silver Medallion Filet Mignon as I have experienced it. I only discovered the pork substitute in my later years.By taste and texture, it takes time to learn how tell how bad the state of meat is today.Here is 1 way to tell: If you prepare a Pork Filet for yourself, spicing it with only salt and dried peppers/herbs. If you have nothing else on your plate while eating, when done, rinsing the plate in warm tap water with NO soap should reveal a squeaky clean plate. Now try that with any regular poultry or beef or hamburger. I bet there will remain a slimy oil residue. Even so called white turkey breast, supposedly the best health-wise for you will leave an slimy grease residue on your dinner plate if you don't wash it with soap & water. This grease is the stuff difficult to burn out of your body during exercise. It is also what weighs you down after a meal.Because of price and health quality, I almost gone exclusively to pork filet so long as I keep seeing that water only rinsing my dinner plate leaves a squeaky clean surface.Do not expect this attribute from any other cut of meat from a pig. I discovered this by fluke while looking for a more affordable substitute for beef filet minion.Eat pork or beef filet like this for over a year exclusively as your protein source and if you eat any other type of meat again, and it will be evident you are eating your way to a heart-attack.LOL, OMG, take a look at the price difference...US = $2.49usd/poundhttps://www.smokinpetebbq.com/wordpress/save-boneless-pork-loin-roasts-center-cut-pork-chops/Canada = $1.32usd/poundhttps://www.livingrichwithcoupons.com/2018/03/costco-hot-deal-on-boneless-pork-loin.html

author: greasemonkey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:54:54 pm
content: You all sound like my wife.It could be very true that my weight loss is due to caloric restriction. I am too lazy to keep a log so we'll never know.But in defense of my thesis:- I eat as much as I can- I am almost never hungry (even after a whole day of work & fasting)- I don't feel cold during the winter (I always wear t-shirts)- I don't crave carbohydrates- I eat copious amounts of fat (bacon, eggs and cheese till the cows come home)- I don't seem to have lost much muscle mass- I generally feel good- I sleep wellI also know all this could be attributed to confirmation bias/placebo effects/other uncontrolled variables, take your pick. All I am saying is it works for me.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:59:05 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 10:49:43 amI've traveled to other countries where they don't eat sprouted whole wheat, but ordinary white bread and they're not as fat as Brits and Americans, so it's not that which is to blame for obsity. Granted the bread doesn't have masses of fat and sugar added to it, but it's not wholemeal, just ordinary white bread, made in the traditional way.If you've lost weight, it's purely because you've reduced your calories and if you're eating a ballanced diet and like the food, then good, but eating too much of anything will make you gain weight in the long run.QuoteYes, some breads have added sugar, a bit of fat and salt too, which isn't good, but the anti-preservatives thing is total bollocks. Most preservatives are anti-oxidents which naturally occur in other foods such as fruit. A classic example is ascorbic acid, which is also another name for vitamin C. There are a few preservatives which are toxic in large quantities, but that's the same for many naturally occuring chemicals, found in food and levels are tightly regulated.Trying to get rid of preservatives will make food more expensive, resulting in more wastage, pollution and higher prices. It's not good for the health of the population, or the environment.Vitamin fortification is a good thing. We don't do enough of it in the UK.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 04:08:54 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 18, 2020, 03:59:05 pmNow I am not against Vitamin fortification, however, I was just saying some of this is being done because bleached refined white flour literally has not vitamins compared to what should have been naturally available in the entire sprouted grain.I also hate that I have to pay almost 3x for my bread when it just ends up using all the additional health vitamin containing parts of the wheat which just usually gets thrown away when producing the regular white crap.If our food was properly entire and you have even a minimally good diet, you will be getting all of what you need except for maybe some vitamin D as you may be avoiding just a few minutes of near full body sunlight exposure on your skin.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 04:25:00 pm
content: Quote from: greasemonkey on June 18, 2020, 03:54:54 pmAnd here lies the culprit. Your appetite is currently in tune with your needs. And if you are lucky, this will hold into old age.This isn't the case for many North Americans. Our appetite is such a finely tuned system that If we were to only eat 4 pistachio nuts a day over our requirements, within a year, anyone of us would put on an additional 25 pounds of fat. That amount of food fits on a single tablespoon. Yes, 1 single additional tablespoon a day of even something like a thick soup for a year over our needs will add 25 pounds after 365 days. You do not realize that if you a little more or too much over a few days that you will eat a little less over the next 2-3 days without consciously knowing you are doing so.For those of us with serious weight problems, this 'balance' in our appetite is tilted in the wrong direction. Since I workout for a solid 1.5hours every second day, when I skip a workout, I am aware that I'm just not as hungry and have no big cravings. However, after a vacation, by workout #3, my appetite becomes massive. And whats worse is that my appetite balance is out of whack from diet problems locked in from childhood, or genetic programming, so I either need to restrain myself, or when I occasionally fail to do so, I keep myself in good enough physical shape that I can burn off those additional calories during an enhanced version of my 1.5 hour workout session. My stepbrother doesn't have any such problem at all, that lucky bastard...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 04:30:39 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 04:08:54 pmVitamins and minerals removed from refined grains, isn't clear cut. If a vitamin/mineral is bound to insoluble fibre, then it might not be absorbed that well anyway, just excreated in the feaces. It wouldn't surprise me if some white breads are better sources of some vitamins, than wholemeal, because of increased bioavailability.I agree about fortification with vitamin D. Folic acid is probably also a good idea, as it's destroyed by too much UV exposure. There's a fine balance.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 05:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 04:25:00 pmI was amazed to find how many calories there are in nuts. E.g. 15 grams of walnuts ( which is really not much!) is 100 calories...Guess who was ignorantly piling on ounces of walnuts on the breakfast oats in the past... no wonder it was hard to lose weight, LOL!To me, the big "Aha" is where the calories are coming from, there are plenty of counter-intuitive surprises in this space!Even my mug coffee with milk turned out to be an issue, when you add it up over a day (week, month, year...)

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 05:19:27 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 03:35:27 pmWhen traveling to California for business, trader Joes is my default stop as I make sure my hotel room has a functional kitchen & I prep my own food except for business dinners.Luckily here in Quebec, I have access to an authentic butcher, who I personally know by name where I order the top quality meats in bulk, to order by weight, which he vacuum packs for me, then freezes it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 06:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 05:04:14 pmIt's not just calories but how much they fill you up and what other nutrients they provide. For example semi-skimmed milk might have the same number of calories per 100ml, as lemonade, but it also has a ton of other nutrients such as calcium and protein and it's absorbed much more slowly, than lemonade, which is just sugary water.Nuts are energy dense, but they're also packed full of other nutrients, so aren't a bad thing to eat.When you eat most of your calories is also important. It's generally better to eat more earlier on in the day, so it can be burned off, rather than at night, when it's more likely to be stored as fat.However it's still energy in vs expenditure which matters. Tricks such as less energy dense food, which is slowly absorbed, eating enough fibre and not too late help to increase the odds of an energy deficit, but physics always wins.I've found if I'm really active, it's almost impossible to gain weight and I tend to under, rather than over eat, which can cause some disordered eating, such as binging, and waking up in the night to eat. When I'd go for a six mile cycle ride at lunchtime, as well as cycling 4.5 miles to and from work everyday, I'd find myself eating all sorts of processed, sugary, fatty food and still lose weight. Now I still cycle to and from work, but I haven't cycled at lunchtime, since the pandemic, as I'm worried about having an accident and going to hospital, so the binging is rare and I don't wake up to eat any more. When I start cycling at lunchtime again, I'll make more of an effort to eat/drink more calories from substances which don't keep my stomach full for too long, as night eating is a pain and I feel drowsy the following day. All the energy dense foods which are considered to be healthy, tend to be slow release and would keep my stomach full, thus reducing my appetite and what I eat later, so I might resort to eating some junk food, after my lunchtime cycle rides, to keep my intake up.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 18, 2020, 05:04:14 pmYes. One of the first things to do if you want to lose weight is keep a list with what you eat for one or two weeks and then sum up the calories. There will be several red flags

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 11:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2020, 10:17:36 pmThis usually holds true since it is so easy for our bodies to extract the calories from our processed/refined cooked food.Example: I eat all my filet mignon blue. I don't mean disgusting refrigerated cold, but, the bulk core of the meat isn't cooked while the outside is seared for flavor, but the core never exceeds body temperature during cooking.It was discovered that actual 'cooking' of meat actually performs part of the digestion breakdown process making it 5x easier our short intestine to extract the calories and nutrients from the meat. The truth is our massive brains burn most of our consumed calories at rest and without cooked food, in our deep ancestry, we might have never been able to fuel our evolution at times of low food availability.This actually holds true for many vegetables as well. As an example, raw carrots celery are so difficult to digest, you can almost consider them as negative calories. Not only can you stuff them nonstop, but it actually will take all day non-stop just to chew down enough of them just to get enough calories to survive. However, once you cook them, no only are they soft, but sweeter too and it becomes easy for our intestine to extract them as fuel instead of them being fiberous mulch being pushed through our system.Unfortunately, if we try using this trick, for some of us, it doesn't last too long until our sub-continuous appetite system catches on, adapts, and then you find out you are eating 2-5x the food to make up for that new weird hunger sensation. It's feels like your stomach is stuffed full from eating all that mulch which you don't seem to be extracting any useful surplus calories from, so you feel as if you always need to eat more non-stop.Damn it, we cant trick our bodies indefinitely. Like it or not, evolution has designed us to seek out calorie rich food all too well.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 11:47:55 pm
content: I'd say it has become way too easy to get food. But you can get used to eating less.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 12:06:24 am
content: Yes, it is all too easy to munch a couple of snacks and get hundreds of calories in the back door...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 12:11:20 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 04:25:00 pmI see your points, although I will correct the numbers:- 4 calories * 4 pistachio nuts * 365 days = 5,840 calories- 5,840 / 3,500 = 1.66That would be 1.7lb of fat gained in that year.Foods are not all bioavailable at their caloric value, almonds are ~80%, pistachios probably not far off. Then add the fact that your body is not perfectly efficient at turning those added calories into fat, so the number might drop to ~70% or so.We can also look at some real world studies where this was attempted, and see that adding walnuts/almonds to peoples diet will not cause them to gain weight. This is because the participants eat less of other foods to compensate, likely less healthy ones. Of course, if you went with a cup of pop instead of the pistachios, well, the results would be out the window..https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/96/2/296/4576806https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/calories-in-a-pound-of-fat#section4https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nuts-and-weight-loss#section2Quote from: SilverSolder on June 17, 2020, 01:28:30 pmFull fat dairy should be ok, ideally yogurt/cheese or similar.Personally I feel milk (13g lactose per cup), and low fat dairy should be avoided, but I don't believe the literature supports that.https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/146/1/81/4616088https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-012-0418-1?rel=1https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/10/5/924S/5569507https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-017-1581-1https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-017-0243-1

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 01:33:15 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 19, 2020, 12:11:20 amO)k, going along with your numbers, you would need to eat a surplus of 42grams worth of pistachio nuts to gain the 25lb over the year, not 4.2grams worth. That's around 60 nuts.QuoteOhh boy, all I can say to those is learn to drink water... Exercise helps you want to prefer water over any other drink. However, if you exercise and drink those sports drinks, it trains your appetite to expect flavor and nutrients from what you drink and this will not help you kick the soft-drink habit. No matter what those sports drinks marketers push, drink water and eat a proper diet instead and you will do better in the long run. If you don't have a diet or sugar drink problem, then you are fine to take in those sports drinks, but they aren't as necessary as the marketing hype would like you to believe.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 08:22:50 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 18, 2020, 04:25:00 pmYou obviously haven't looked at the weight loss graph he posted, which shows this clearly isn't the case. He's 1.83m tall and weighed 80kg, a BMI of just under 24 and lost 10kg in just over four months, a BMI of just under 21. The speed of the weight loss and the fact only 40% of it was fat, is the hallmark of a crash diet.Quote from: greasemonkey on June 18, 2020, 03:54:54 pmPerhaps your wife is right?Of course it's just to caloric restriction. Your body has being buring fat and muscle, both from its stores and the little you've being eating. There's no other explaination for this.You don't have to be underweight to be have malnutrition and I'm not talking about the sort caused by lack of vitamins, but energy-protein deficiency. Loosing that much weight, that quickly, will certainly cause some degree of malnutrition, especialy as your BMI wasn't that high to start with.That sounds familular and is quite worrying, as it marked the turning point when my dieting started to push towards something resembling an eating disorder, even though it wasn't clinically diagnosable at that point. I hope you don't go down the same path.It's still relatively early days, since you've only being doing it since the end of last year. I've done a similar thing in he past and I remember it took awhile to realise anything was wrong. The human body can often take a real hammering, before it becomes nocticable. The lack of appetite isn't surprising and is caused by ketosis. I remember feeling good about the weight loss, but somehow still wanted to lose more.Why did you decide to lose weight in the first place? Your starting BMI isn't considered to be overweight by medical professionals. I know BMI is just a rough indicator, but even if you were carying a little excess fat, it was certainly more healthy than this and I doubt you needed to lose more than 5kg.Have you dieted before? If so what other diets have you tried?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 01:33:19 pm
content: Interesting fact: BMI (Body Mass Index) was developed at the behest of Florence Nightingale, who wanted a way of stating numerically whether a person was malnourished (underweight) or not.Nowadays we use it mostly on the other end of the spectrum... that's progress!I stumbled on an article about this woman last night, she was a fascinating figure in history. One of the first to apply science to health care.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 11:16:45 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 19, 2020, 08:22:50 amBMI of 21 is OK, depending on what studies you look at, maybe worse for someone older (>50). But I do agree, 4kg fat loss 6kg something else. If possible in the future should aim to not lose more lean mass.17% BF is good. This number could be high or low by 5% or more, hard to say without seeing the guy.Probably best to get some blood tests then, and check for any nutrient deficiencies.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(18)30288-2/fulltexthttps://www.acpjournals.org/doi/abs/10.7326/M15-1181https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m688(fiber!)https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0193368

author: greasemonkey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 10:01:12 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 19, 2020, 11:16:45 pmTo that I agree. I will do some blood test and other exams this fall. I also have records for the last 10-15 years to compare.Now to the issue of malnutrition. AFAIK the are no essential carbohydrates. So theoretically at least the absence of carbs in a diet does not lead to malnutrition. And don't forget I am still eating everything else.These are thesymptoms of malnutritionaccording to the NHS. Undoubtedly I have the main symptom (5-10% weight loss in 3-6 months) but none of the other. And believe me if you do physical work you know when your energy is low.Muscle mass lossI lost roughly 4kg of fat and 6kg of lean mass. This means that when I was 80kg I had 16kg of fat. This means that 20% of my weight was fat. Now I am 70kg and have 12kg of fat. That is 17% fat. So although in absolute numbers I lost more muscle than fat I am relative more muscular. I can do 6 pull-ups now. 6 months ago I could barely manage 2.Quote from: Zero999 on June 19, 2020, 08:22:50 amI did not decide to lose weight because obviously I didn't need to. I read Gary Taubes' bookWhy We Get Fat: And What to Do About Itand thought I would try. By the way if you decide to cut carbs your life becomes much simpler. There is nothing to buy from the gas station on your way to work (maybe dried nuts).I had only dieted once before (10 years ago) in order to be a faster tennis player. I was about 85kg back then and dropped to 77 in three months. But I got my diet from a nutritionist and also had a nice lady who cooked my meals. The diet was not restricted in calories, just less carbs and fat. After that I oscillated between 75 and 80kg.Please understand that I am not trying to peddle anything here. If someone told me this 6 months ago I would have had the same reaction.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 12:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: greasemonkey on June 20, 2020, 10:01:12 amNo, I don't think you're pushing anything. I'm concerned about you because I've done a similar thing before and suffered from health problems in the long term. The first year or so was good, but I ended up with an eating disorder, which took awhile to recover from and still have some lasting damage. One thing to note about that link is it says unintentional weight loss, but the effect on your body is the same, regardless of whether you're on a diet, or have inadequate access to food.Restricting carbohydrates has the same effect as restricting calories, as you said, there are fewer food options, which makes it easier to eat less, but that doesn't mean it's good. It's funny how people think they've just discovered the magic new low carb diet, when in fact it's old. I've read similar books to that before. It's all a load of bollocks and only works due to caloric restriction.It's true that there are no essential carbohydrates, but that doesn't mean that low carb diets are healthy. Cutting out whole food groups severely restricts other essential nutrients. Ketosis is bad and no human population has lived off a ketogenic diet for very long. Contrary to popular belief, even the Inuit don't live off a keto diet, because they get plenty of carbohydrates from glycogen in freshly killed meat. 100 years ago people lived of a diet with very little meat and loads of carbohydrates, compared to fat and obesity wasn't an issue.Severely reducing your food options doesn't make life simpler, but less pleasurable. It mean something as simple as going out for a meal is a PITA. You might be able to kid yourself, that ordering a steak with a salad is nice, but you still don't receive the same level of enjoyment as you would, had you been able to select from the entire menu and eat everything on the plate.Your wife also seems to be concerned about you, which indicates what you're doing is likely to be detrimental to your health. It might not be obvious to you at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's not damaging you. Hopefully this is just a crash diet and doesn't progress into anything more sinister, as it did with me.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 04:46:17 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 20, 2020, 12:28:01 pmYup. I'm still eating chocolate but just less of it.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 06:15:39 pm
content: btw something interesting you might find life style improvement gains from putting on muscle (different then) losing weight. the leg cramps I used to have were not related to weight. It just had to do with bigger muscles in the right places. Also related to injury resistance. IMO don't care about your weight if you want to get stronger. this is for all the people that like steak, pizza, posture and cake. Having been fat and much less fat before, I can tell you muscle is fairly permanent, and you reminisce about it much less.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 07:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 20, 2020, 04:46:17 pmLOL, I started working out with a mandatory 1-2 chunks of a large Toblerone bar around 30 minutes prior to exercise. Now understand that my workouts were a thorough 1.5 hours every second day with 2 all out sprints at the end. This trick worked, and I did train physiological response in my body's metabolism to respond to the intake of chocolate. On vacation, all I had to do was eat a 'high quality' chocolate desert, and I would literally burn & sweat off the calories from dinner as I was physiologically trained to respond that way to chocolate. The problem is that I was now addicted to chocolate and if I would ever fail at exercising on my regular schedule for too long, I would be completely f----d up...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2020, 07:20:38 pm
content: In my experience it is important to keep sugar levels up during excersize to keep the brains working. Especially when doing an outdoors activity like cycling it is important to stay aware of other traffic. My primary source for that is Coca Cola (the real stuff). I'm going through about 27 liters of it annualy but I only drink it combined with being active.

author: greasemonkey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 04:22:27 pm
content: @BrianHG Thank you for supporting the Swiss economy by eating Toblerone. I eat chocolate too. Who would like to live without chocolate?BTW after all your nudging about wholesome food I decided to order some carbs (steak and french fries) at the restaurant yesterday. Unfortunately it was the waiter's first day at work. Look what I got instead.Man, I cannot get a break.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 05:41:28 pm
content: I'd guess you got pork instead of steak. That looks nice enough though. Maybe it is better compared to what you ordered. Off-topic: the worst thing about restaurants is that other people order food which looks tastier compared to what I ordered.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 06:33:11 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 21, 2020, 07:14:09 pmI'm not sure if your metabolism can be trained like that. I know your brain and nervous system can be trained to some degree, even parts you normally don't have direct control of such as your stomach. It's also true you can be addicted to something you like such as choclate.I think it's more likely what was happening was when you did high intensity exercise, you improved your body's insulin response, so it was less likely to store fat, when you are a food high in fat and processed carbohydrates, such as choclate. The effects will last for a certain period of not exercising, but if you're prone to insulin resistance and weight gain, you'll likely put on weight, if you're inactive and eat processed high fat/carb food for too long. Obivouly you need a food which you treat as a suppliment and are confident you'll only eat, when you're active, to avoid addiction. Perhaps something which is tollerable, but not a favourite would be a better option?Quote from: nctnico on June 21, 2020, 07:20:38 pmI find not eating enough calories can often be problematic when doing lots of exercise. As mentioned above, when I'm really active I have issue with night eating, which worried me at the start, as I thought it would make me fat again, but then I realised, in my case, it was assiciated with an energy deficit and did not result in any weight gain.Perhaps I should have done that when I was doing lots of cycling? If would've helped to avoid the night eating. Be careful about the caffine in Cola though and rinse with water, so it doesn't rot your teeth too much. Orange juice could be argued to be a more healthy option, but once you're drinking that much, the effect of the sugar on your body is the same and you don't need all that extra vitamin C anyway. Something containing protein is also a possibility, such as milk, but it's more slowly absorbed and is harder on the digestive system, so is probably not a good idea, before exercise. After a workout is better, as long as it doesn't blunt your appetite too much, you end up not eating as much later.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 07:09:13 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 22, 2020, 06:33:11 pmAre you kidding me, just the though of a quality chocolate mouse for desert would get me all hot and sweating as I waited for it. My heart beats get really deep and pounding. Generating all that extra heat and a pounding heart for something like 45 minutes to over an hour straight is not a true sign of heightened calorie burn, IE metabolism increase.Note that there was no chocolate or source of caffeine & concentrated sugar anywhere else in my life. (No caffeine means no coke, no coffee, no tea.) Those 2 Toblerone chunks were absolutely exclusively reserved for 1 time use before exercise. The chocolate rich desert was reserved for when I was out of town and unable to exercise. (In other words, without exercise, those 2 Toblerone chunks were also missing during these vacations.) This trick would probably not be functional if I had other sources of caffeine or sugar elsewhere in my diet.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 08:06:33 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 22, 2020, 07:09:13 pmI don't doubt the sweating and fast heart rate, but they're controlled by your nervous system, which can be trained by classical conditioning. You can't prove it, without actaully measuring the calories burned and I seriously doubt it was that much above resting, without physically doing anything.