Which Low Cost and Current Hot Air Station/Gun? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2015, 01:44:10 am
content: I want to state immediately if this has already been addressed recently I apologize but I couldn't find much current data. I have never been very good with forums though.I seen the ATTEN 858D that was on the EEVBlogs Youtube page and doing more research it looks like the quality had significantly dropped or that manufacturers have changed and now the devices are unsafe (Mains AC input wires swapped and possibly more issues). Aswell as the "brand" name changed to WEP and product is now 858D+. Combine that with the fact that I could find no recall reported by google it makes me pretty doubtfull that this is at all the same product that Dave reviewed and its more they changed the branding to get away from bad PR. Maybe Im missing something but Dave has essentially put his seal of approval on this 858D+ by having it in the Amazon portion of his site so I might very well have over looked something in my research.That all said, if you have recently gotten an 858D+ and can vouche for its safety and "quality" then please do.Also, for a hot air gun/station what other choices are there in the same price bracket? I don't have the money to spend atm to get a nice rig considering I am also saving up for a multimeter and a soldering station. Im just getting into this stuff and figuring out how to permanently and properly fix RROD/YLOD issues in last gens video game consoles is just something I would like to experiment with which is the reason for the interest in a hot air station.

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2015, 03:07:12 am
content: I was a little concerned as well with the quality of the 858D - I bought one last week off ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360910237040). It looked like a good unit, with occasional dodgy wiring - which I was more than willing to check and correct. However, the unit I got was correctly earthed with the fuse on the live input. I haven't opened it up to see what the quality of the internal construction is like, but it is working brilliantly.The 'brand' name of mine is something different (it's not sat next to me at the moment, but I haven't seen it mentioned before). When I was looking, I didn't find any (on UK websites) referred to as 858D+ - it might be worth saying what country your in, or setting your country in the forum settings (so you get the little flag to the left of your posts), as different versions might be sold differently in different regions.I'm not sure what alternatives are available, without spending double the amount of the 858D - it is a very cheap hot air gun, which is why, I'm guessing, some units have dangerous wiring faults.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2015, 03:19:30 am
content: I thought I set my country but I guess I missed something.I think the issue with the fuse was an internal one. Here in USA (as you probably know) we don't have fuses on the plugs usually. But have you used yours much, or just a bit here and there for a job you were doing?I think the version you bought is the fourth or fifth one of these. They all atleast look externally same for the most part minus the soldering iron.Im thinking about reflowing a couple of last gens consoles just because it seems fun and interesting. I was thinking "Gee might be able to reball to" but on second thought that might be a bit to much to control without the proper setup and proper tooling thats just out of my financial reach. Besides, re flowing would solve the issue anyway, probably.

author: bianchifan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2015, 07:38:11 am
content: Perhaps you wanna have a closer look inside here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/youyue-858d-some-reverse-engineering-custom-firmware/

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2015, 02:06:20 pm
content: Quote from: Ridah on April 15, 2015, 03:19:30 amAhh of course, with your strange plugs ...Quote from: Ridah on April 15, 2015, 03:19:30 am

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2015, 01:09:41 am
content: I have the YiHua 858D. Very new here and only used it twice but I like it. It heats up and cools down fast. The nozzles actually lock in with a spanner. I picked up a cheap set of nozzles that tighten by screw. They aren't a perfect fit but should work.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2015, 02:18:37 am
content: Do any of these have REAL power switches on the front? Wasn't there a report of a model where the hot air gun could still come on by accident and burn your house down if you only used the front panel switch and not the "real" switch in the back?Edit: Found it. Danger of the use of the triacs to control the heating element and reports of run-away heaters and fires.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/is-there-any-knock-off-2-in-1-solderreflow-station-that-is-not-a-fire-hazard/msg449836/#msg449836QuotePersonally there is something about having to reach around the back of a HOT air gun crammed into a small space on the bench to switch it off propery rubs me the wrong way.

author: savril
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 11:25:02 am
content: NotNot really low cost, but if you want a good quality without going to top brands prices, the quick 861 DS hot air could be an option. It depends also if you can have it in the US at a good price. They are rather difficult to get. In the UE, I had to buy it from Poland to France to get a reasonable price (260 €).I hadn't used it much but it has a good constant airflow (turbine) and it get quickly to temperature because it is powerfull (> 1000W, depends on versions).But I don't know how to get compatible nozzle. Perhaps they are compatible with Hakko and clones ? If someone know, please tell me.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 04:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: savril on April 17, 2015, 11:25:02 amIt is available in the US from a few places.http://www.primedistributing.com/Quick_Soldering_QUICK861DW_p/quick861dw.htm

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 04:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: Ridah on April 15, 2015, 01:44:10 amAt a higher price bracket I got myAoyue 852A++from Amazon. If you plan to use it often, I highly recommend it (I even made a video- but in portuguese, sorry).BTW, it hasrealpower switches on it.Going a bit lower in price you can also get theAoyue 850A++.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2015, 09:31:04 pm
content: HelloI bought this one a few weeks ago :http://www.batterfly.com/shop/proskit-ss969bI didn't used it much but so far I'm happy with it.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2015, 08:36:45 am
content: Picked up 858D from Australian supplier. 858D+ was just too much as $Aust is low atm and the no 858D+'s in Australia. Noticed my 858D still had neutral wire switching on main switch and small heatsink on heater triac. Replaced heatsink with bigger one and changed around wiring to switch active.The other thing I noted as that the hand units now have an earth tab crimp to the metal tube in lieu of just wrapping earth around the tube attach point (as previously mentioned in other threads ...858D+). That said a few of the handset wires needed re-soldering as well as a few on the main PCB. Kinda expected this from previous thread posts.Kinda a little disappointed in the airflow rate. I expected a bigger flow rate, but that said, it's sufficient to remove a switch-mode transformer from a big PCB, which must act as a huge heat soak! More than likely it's just me and a matter of getting used to it. I went for this unity due to higher airflow rate compared to diaphragm pumps units.

author: ercapoccia
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 10:02:01 pm
content: I'm about to pull the trigger for a new soldering iron (Hakko FX-888D frombatterfly.com) and i saw on their website a pretty cheap hot air reworking stationProskit SS-969Bfor € 89,90+vatAnother eshop sells an Atten 858D clone for only € 38,14+vat (WEB 858D)The SS-969B seems a better quality station than the 858D but does it whorth three times the price?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 01:26:42 am
content: I've a X-tronic, and it works fine for the few years I've had it.I am kinda wishing I had seen this first. Maybe it wasn't even available at the time.http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-6028-SMD-Rework-Station/dp/B00101V1SI/ref=sr_1_44?ie=UTF8&qid=1447723269&sr=8-44&keywords=hot+air+station&pebp=1447723277071&perid=19XAS4AQBF3HS7TF92NPIt looks like SRA is the sole US distributor. What catches my attention are the dials for air and heat. Pressing buttons to change temperature is annoying.I find the only time I ever look at the readout on my hot air is to verify that the cool down has kicked it when I replace it on the stand. I suppose that might be a problem with the above station?

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 01:16:50 pm
content: What's so special about hot iron soldering stations? Does it deserve the increase of price to go for a better quality one?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 09:17:17 pm
content: I have been able to remove anything I need, so far with my Xtronic. I'm not sure, myself.I don't see how some small temporal variations here and there make a difference when you're waving a wand around by hand. When the chip comes off, you remove the heat. There's your regulation.QuoteI'm not even sure how I would ever notice this, myself. It's not like the hot air has to respond to transient thermal situations/heatsinks. It takes ambient room temp air at a constant (manually adjustable) rate and dumps power into it. It seems like a steady state will be achieved, no matter how dumb the circuitry. The coil can be strictly power regulated, and I don't see how I could even notice. Chip doesn't come off, turn up the dial. Board burns, turn down the dial. So long as the device is smart enough to not set itself on fire, is all that seems like would matter.Do I care if the temp on a probe matches the number on the display, when held at precisely 1" away from the nozzle in the center of the stream? No. This doesn't even account for thermal mass (volume of hot air) or different tips. Even then it wouldn't matter unless there's a way to look at a pcb and to know exactly what temp/airflow/tip is the best to remove the part of interest, considering the thickness of the pour, the thickness of the board, the area of contacts, type of solder, etc, etc. And this still can't account for how far/close you hold the nozzle, how fast you move it around, etc. Absolute nonsense. No matter how accurate or fancy the station, hot air is an imprecise method that requires user feedback, experience, and on-the-spot experimentation.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 11:03:08 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 17, 2015, 09:17:17 pmSo hot air sucks and is an imprecise and dirty solution to better ways of doing it?An I misunderstanding something?Would I be able someday to design my own reliable hot air soldering station and use the same air mechanism as a way to suck air too?Maybe I need to back to basics again about how air hot air soldering stations are made and differences between different models.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 12:18:34 am
content: QuoteNo. Hot air is awesome and works great, despite being imprecise. So I suggest you buy a cheap station and upgrade if you need to.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 03:05:14 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 18, 2015, 12:18:34 amOkay.But why someone would need a better one? What are the advantages of it?

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 03:15:01 pm
content: Quote from: timofonic on November 18, 2015, 03:05:14 pmCheck this thread and the video:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/jbc-rework-soldering-setup-vs-hakko-rework-soldering-setup/

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 09:32:16 pm
content: Even in this review, I don't understand the point of timing the removal of the chip. Unless both hot air guns were set to the maximum heat output for this test, the actual side-by-side comparison is useless. And if this is the case, the board/component should also be a very challenging example with an extreme amount of heatsinking, else both guns seem to be lacking in the power department.I mean, at maximum output, you should be able to fry some FR-4. Until you run out of adjustment, you should be able to achieve the same airflow and temp as any other gun by fiddling with the knobs/buttons. Within the desired area of interest, anyway. Maybe a more expensive gun can also be an efficient tool for removing old paint from your deck or blowing out candles from 5 feet away!? Or maybe you can set it 2 feet away from a large board with a wide-angle nozzle and effectively preheat the entire thing?!? But for typical PCB rework, the component/PCB would never be able to tell the difference, if airflow and temperature slash power output is set to roughly the same. If at this specific point where they match, one guns says 3 on the airflow and 350C on the temp, and the other says 5 on the airflow and 325C on the temp, does this mean anything? No, not really.I can see how the heat output of a cheap station can overshoot/oscillate, a little. Temp overshoots, nichrome wire is hotter than average. This increases resistance, which decreases current. Temp undershoots. Some oscillation. But I can't imagine it to be very significant, barring some very bad AND unlucky design.I think the main difference will come down to maximum sustainable output, ergonomics and longevity?? Perhaps a nod to precision/repeatability and warm up time / quicker to reach a stable steady state? Unless the gun has an IR sensor to actually look at the component, I don't see what all the extra fanciness is going to do for you, aside from those things. And other than the ergonomics, I don't see much of this being tested in reviews.Seeing as I have never come close to using max or min temp or airflow on my gun, I still haven't run out of capability, AFAIC.QuoteWhen I am running it at full power and the chip is not coming off and the board is not burning, I will need a different hot air station. Or maybe rig an attachment onto my 1200W heat gun.

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2015, 05:42:32 pm
content: I have three criterion for a hot air station.1) Good user interface2) Heats up quickly to temperature and holds temperature3) Won't burn down my shopI can understand why people will choose a name brand over a copy (counterfeit) if the performance is better on the original. I'd love to have a Hakko, Metcal or JBC station, but my cheap old station meets my criterion so it stays. I had a copy of the Hakko 936. Good station, but the thermal recovery couldn't keep up with me. A real Hakko 888-D could and the Metcals I bought second hand are even better.Hot air is useful, but it's not rocket science. Cheaper that works and is safe allows me options to put my money in other things I want.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2015, 07:51:03 pm
content: Quote from: timofonic on November 18, 2015, 03:05:14 pmReliabilitySafetyFeaturesUI & ErgonomicsIf you're using it a lot, then the above reasons truly matter, as it has to work day in, day out, not start fires, be easy to use, and not break due to common operator abuse (i.e. those that don't care as they didn't pay for it). You'll also find that buying a better quality station is actually cheaper over it's lifespan vs. replacing multiple inexpensive stations over the same period of time.For reasonably priced hot air stations that are well made, you should look at the following:Quick (either the957,957D, or 861DS)Pro's Kit 969FWIW, I own aQuick 861DW(DW = US version). It's very easy to use, has setback features when nozzle is inserted in it's stand, and it's not given me any issues.Other members that own them are happy as well (DS version = 220V & EU plug). Rather full featured station, similar to a Hakko FR-810 in fact, but at ~1/3rd the cost (huge value for the money). The 957 models are simpler and are lower cost (more inline with the Pro's Kit), and aren't much more expensive than the 858D relatively speaking (worse case, figure 2x, as I've seen 858D's for ~$42).The 861D* models do require a different type of nozzle (P/N's start with anN, which are friction fit), but they can be had should it be necessary. The 3 round nozzles included are sufficient IME however (not had one slip out either, so no need for concern in that regard). The heating elements in these are a cartridge, which is very easy to replace (entire stainless tube, which is held in place with 3 screws).If it matters to you, the air pumps are in the enclosure for the Quick models, while it's in the handle for the Pro's Kit. Personally, I prefer it in the enclosure as there's no vents in the handle inadvertently cover up or get full of dust.