Multiple designs on a PCB makes the price jump - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:35:38 am
content: I have made regular use of the gang design technique of putting a number of PCB's into a single design for both economy and ease of assembly. In my case, the designs are all related but electrically disconnected in the PCB. They are all interconnected with various connectors in the final assembly allowing me to place them for external features of the end product - buttons, switches, display, connectors, etc.I have been using a company called Rush PCB to fab these for the last few runs of 50pcs (low volume) and they were $15.40/ea - not a problem. Today I submitted a trivially updated version with the same outline, hole count, all specs the same. This time, however, someone noticed that it was 5 designs on one board and the price goes up to $26/ea. The same size and spec with a few pads moved around increases the cost from $15.40 to $26.00?While I don't think that is enough to sink the project - it feels so wrong. Like I am being cheated. Should I just make some 'dummy traces' to connect the PCB's? Why would a fab house care - other that trying to extort money for work they would not be doing. The way it is quoted, it appears that the NRE is repeated 5 times even though there is only a single setup. They have made good quality PCB's for me and always ahead of schedule, so that is a good thing.Maybe time to look around for an alternate? These are not exotic PCB at all. 8/8 ENIG 4 layer .062" FR-4 Green with white silk. Anyone could do these - but finding a new fab house always makes me nervous and I don't have much margin in the schedule. Is this still a normal practice in today's super competitive PCB fab market?

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:45:13 am
content: It's not an uncommon practice, but it annoys and bewilders everyone who runs into it. I run the price comparison sitePCBShopper.comand I got enough complaints from my users about surcharges on multiple designs that I added it as a parameter in my price calculator.So if you go to PCBShopper, enter your board's specs and look for the field labeled "Number of designs". The help text says "Number of independent designs on the board separated by a silkscreened line or by nothing at all." In your case, you'd enter 5. PCBShopper will show you prices from as many as 27 different manufacturers, and will take into account their policies regarding multiple designs.Rush PCB is not listed in PCBShopper's price comparison, but similar American companies are (as well as Asian and European companies).- Bob

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:52:11 am
content: Thanks for the note Bob - nice tool you have created. Well done.I am going to look around and see who operates this way. It feels so shady to operate that way.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:57:51 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on July 08, 2016, 12:52:11 amDid you ask Rush PCB why they do that? What did they say?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:11:15 am
content: Quote from: rea5245 on July 08, 2016, 12:57:51 amYes, I did. The reply is hilarious.ME:QuoteRUSHPCB:QuoteOk, they ran the previous revisions on three different orders at the same price over a 6 month period. The reality is they just now figured out that the layout is 5 designs and now want to charge more for the same work. The $15.40 price they have been charging is very similar to what I just saw on PCB shopper and what Sunstone quoted directly so I don't think it is special. A 68% increase is kinda crazy to me.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:20:37 am
content: You haven't mentioned whether you're using Rush PCB's "Protos Special" price, but athttp://rushpcb.com/offers/SpecialProtos.aspxthe fine print says the pricing applies to "Individual board with Single circuit design and No Multiple images of boards". So at least they're upfront about it.How does their price for 5 designs on one board compare to having one design on the board, with the board area being 1/5th the size, and then ordering 5 times as many boards?- Bob

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:27:30 am
content: Run your single board with 5 designs past them with a single 0.1mm "ground" track between each design, and then one with the isolated designs but with a few hundred totally useless drill holes and v grooves of various lengths and diameter between each design - sticking to their rules of course. Ask them what they really want or can they just be sensible because you are an existing customer, and as any business knows keeping existing customers is far more profitable than finding new ones..

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:45:25 am
content: Quote from: rea5245 on July 08, 2016, 01:20:37 amI am not sure - so far all the boards I have done with them have been quoted over email. I don't know what service level they assigned the projects to. They did these same boards previously for the same $15.40/ea on three different orders. I would be fine with an incremental increase since the price is 9mos old now. Even if they noticed the layout is 5 PCB's after 3 orders, how do they expect me to react to a 68% increase in cost?Quote from: Macbeth on July 08, 2016, 01:27:30 amHonestly, there are too many options to mess around with this kind of thing. You are right, it is cheaper to keep the existing (and happy until now) customers. The total order average is about $3k every couple of months. Not a giant customer by any stretch, but it seems like enough to not run me out the door, right? I don't have any designs that push the boundaries of the process - traces are all wider than the minimum, holes are bigger than minimum, minimum possible hole sizes, standard colors, standard finishes. Curious what they may do. I have been very serious about sourcing everything possible here in the USA, but I am struggling to be competitive. The majority of my competition is manufacturing as much as possible in China which is getting easier by the minute. The same boards can be done in China from a known a reputable list for 1/3 the cost including the shipping. This is even true with small quantity.Big dilemma - stay local or go for the lowest cost? May not have a choice in the long run. My customers may make that choice for me.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 02:02:46 am
content: Just tell them Thanks but no thanks. Give them the China quote and tell them now they have given you (previously happy customer) the incentive to find someone else, can they now beat the Chinese price? Or at least lower their OLD price a bit as you have found this new market that you never would have considered previously?They are not a charity! Its only $24,000 a year in sales they will lose.Now this is just being nice and letting them know how they are failing. You could of course just never call them back and go and get them made in China like your competitors.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 02:09:54 am
content: I don't know much about the PCB business, but at least in my world I don't have many BIG customers. My business is supported by many small volume customers. Each one of them talks to other potential customers so it is critical to me that everyone is as happy as possible all the time.It's doubtful that losing my business would shake them up very much, but if 10, 20, 30 customers did the same thing they may re-consider how they operate.

author: MicroBlocks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 08:10:54 am
content: I would not even consider higher prices if it does not compensate that with quality and service.So take your business elsewhere.You don't run a business to support other businesses. It is a competitive world out there so be competitive.If you can save 2/3 of your cost that is more net profit right in your pocket.If you want to support local business, use that 2/3 and buy something nice for the wife.American businesses should not be afraid of Chinese competition.Just offer a reasonable price and to distinguish have high quality, good customers service in English, and speedy manufacturing and shipping.As a capitalist country this should come natural.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 08:34:21 am
content: The quote system from PCBWay below seems to take the "number of different designs" into account even if you created your own panel too. Haven't tried to run quotes for different setups to see if the prices would actually be different though.But IMO my understanding would be that manufacturers would rather like to stop that trend of people grouping things (that previously made sense due to the way billing worked), because the reason they can get prices that low is by optimizing/grouping multiple customers' designs on even larger panels, and they realised they could do it more efficiently themselves (i.e. instead of having all your PCBs grouped the way you grouped them then those of othe customers next to them etc it might be better to have one of your small independent PCBs filling a space in the middle of other designs on the other end of the board).

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 08:40:02 am
content: Just my 2 cents worth, I use Beta Layout in Ireland, and they just put four separate PCBs onto a 100mm by 100mm panel and I end up with 2 off each PCB at no extra charge.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 12:46:49 pm
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on July 08, 2016, 08:40:02 amBeta Layout is also known as PCB-POOL, and that's how it's listed on PCBShopper.- Bob

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 01:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on July 08, 2016, 01:11:15 amRE: thanks for your reply however "special offer" does not spell in my dictionary. i'll get back to you when i cant find another source that can offer cheaper than your "not special offer" price. sincerely...

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2016, 02:39:25 pm
content: I used a local company, BEC for over 20 years. They let me fill ANY size panel with however many designs I wanted, with NO extra charges.The ONLY extras was #holes, which was fair, and really bugger all extra. A few other local manufacturers relented and used to charge ~$15 for each extradesign per panel, and I was fine with that too. BUT, most locals have gone now (and not just because of that).In my case, I had many tiny pcbs / fillers / adapters that would incur $200+ setup cost for EACH one ! Absolutely not worth it !They told me that, they made very good money charging each person a setup cost, then cramming as many "prototypes" as possible on a panel.They made more this way than a production run, for far less cost and effort. I still haven't found a "reasonable" supplier, I don't care if they limit itto 3-5 designs max for a small increase. It's a PITAEdit: ~30 yrs ago, when a panel here cost anywhere from $1,000-$2,000, making a "single" PCB with GND and VCC tracks linking them was a common trick.The bastids would still cut them up and charge extras ! There'd often be arguments as to whether it was a single PCB or not. I'd often have to supply a circuitdiagram et :-) but I'd get crafty with that too !!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 02:37:42 am
content: QuoteNever thought of it. But, yeah, that makes sense. I also thought it had to do with the amount of routing. I suppose that takes more time, more wear on the tooling, more cleaning/emptying of the vacuum equipment. Tab routing doesn't cut itself.

author: Mr J
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 03:31:19 am
content: I've usedhttp://dirtypcbs.com/and panelized 5x5 CM into four equal parts come out to $0.35 a board, Pic attachedMr. J , N1IR

author: stevenhoneyman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 11:51:35 pm
content: I've done this several times with elecrow and they've never complained. I think their additional charges apply if you want the sub-boards cut out (completely) or v-grooving - tabs are fine

author: Georg - PY5ZSE
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 02:51:21 am
content: It is certainly true, that the PCB manufacturers try to discourage their customers from grouping designs. I cannot see any technical reason for that, the economic reason (as seen from the manufacturer) however is obvious. Most prototype calculators follow a rather simple pattern: A base fee "for entering the shop" plus a cost proportional to the board surface you buy, plus surcharges for extras like ENIG, thicker copper, 2nd silk screen etc. So, if you order 5 different boards, you pay the base fee 5 times, if you group, only once. They hate that, and invented the "multiple design fee" to recover at least part of the loss.There are exceptions. I bought several times from Aetzwerk in Germany (www.aetzwerk.de). They are not the cheapest, but accept multi design panels without surcharge, also ENIG without solder mask (lots of gold...).The only thing we can do is stick with these suppliers, and let them know why we do so.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 11:26:03 pm
content: I have used Sunstone a lot in the past for prototypes and they are totally fine with multiple designs - they keep it a simple square dimension price. In general, they are too expensive for production but so not so bad on protos.I am looking at Chinese options for production now. Been avoiding that for so long, but USA manufacturing will kill my products and my business will fail.

author: exmadscientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 04:46:39 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 01, 2016, 11:26:03 pmThere's also Taiwan. In a past life I dealt with a sizable amount of East Asian procurement. I can say that dealing with Taiwan was always, always, always less trouble than dealing with China (at least, when I wasn't actuallyinChina at the moment). One fab house you could look at is Speedy Circuits (of Taiwan; it's a popular name!). I have no relation to them, but the last turnkey assembly job we contracted out to a local company got their boards back from those guys. I wasn't particularly happy to see that -- the previous turnkey jobs we sent to this assembler sourced all their boards from a local US fab, and I was expecting that again given the ridiculous pricing -- but the boards were good quality and I assume the assembler pocketed the difference nicely. The silkscreen was a little blurry but I am admittedly a picky bastard about silkscreen; in any case it was far better than the typical Chinese crap you see all too often (coughelecrowcough).

author: technotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 09:28:01 am
content: I think there are some exceptional features of multiple design for PCB which makes the pricing jump.i.e. PCB has no complex wiring attached all over the board, minimal chance of short circuits and wrong wiring, No need for further inspection, It makes mass production cheaper, printed circuit boards are ideal for reproduction of multiple boards and many more advantages.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 10:35:14 am
content: Jeez, for that price difference it would be almost cheaper to do the panel drilling by a 3rd party, ridiculous.I would just go for some dummy traces, or even real connected traces.Like said before, there is absolutely no technical reason why a PCB manufacturer would have additional work/costs to the process.It's just so screw people over to make two different projects = more money in the pocket.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 12:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on August 02, 2016, 10:35:14 amIt's probably to encourage people not to panelise themselves. Pool services will puzzle together dozens of designs on a single panel. There will be less space wasted with 5 small designs compared to 1 large of the same surface...

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:16:59 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on August 02, 2016, 12:55:46 pmSo, more efficient, less waste in material/pollution etc.Seems like a good idea rather than a bad idea to me.It says a lot about where they actually get the most profits from, which are the startup/tooling costs

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:32:37 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on July 08, 2016, 12:52:11 amYes Bob, nice tool, perhaps you could even at a nice BOLD "No Multi Design Surcharge" against the suppliers that don't use this practice.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:40:02 pm
content: Quote from: StuUK on August 02, 2016, 01:32:37 pmWell, I added a field that lets you specify how many designs are in your Gerber, and I report manufacturers' prices based on that. But I wantPCBShopper.comto be a neutral, objective price comparison site. Displaying a bold "No Multi Design Surcharge" message would sort of be taking sides.- Bob

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:49:20 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on August 02, 2016, 01:40:02 pmIt's just a statement of fact but I can understand your viewpoint.

author: Honk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 08:31:34 am
content: Quote from: rea5245 on July 08, 2016, 12:45:13 amHi.A very good PCB price comparison tool but it seems it has lost its strength to calculate on multiple designs.The returned results is for one PCB design only even if more design is added to the search input.The reson to this is probably that the manufacturers sites have changed since PCBshopper was programmed.But it could good for the newcommers to know this fact before placing orders based upon the search results.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 12:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: Honk on March 16, 2018, 08:31:34 amCan you give me some details about this? What did you search for, and which manufacturer's price was incorrect?PCBShopper works by querying the manufacturers' sites for their prices, so it's not a problem when manufacturers change their prices, only if they change their sites (which usually causes an error which gets reported to me and I fix it quickly). But if you've found a problem, please give me the details. I'm very responsive: I generally fix things within 24 hours.- Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: katy201607
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 03:06:27 am
content: if your 5 design need to be connected each other, you could draw some tracks to connect so that the boards seems to be one design,it will avoid higher price. that is my opinion.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 05:16:29 am
content: ^That is cheating... PCB fab is very likely catch that. There is usually at least one human being looking at the gerbers for potential issues.QuoteFor one-offs or prototyping quantities, it may not matter as much. But in higher quantities it makes a few big differences in the logistics. There is a human being at most of these manufacturers looking at the pcbs for defects and marking them with a Sharpie. When you are screening panels of multiple pcb on a panel, this makes the job more difficult. Then there's the actual quantity of good boards that must be produced to fill the order. If there's a 20% fail rate on one of the boards, for whatever reason, that means they have to make that many extras of the other 4, too, which just go in the garbage as wasted time, labor, and materials. The reason they manufacture arrays of pcb in large panels is to make the process faster, easier, and cheaper, and putting multiple designs on the same panel removes some of this efficiency.In many ways, combining pcbs on a panel is like making one larger pcb. It is easier and cheaper to make, test, and produce 3000 small pcb 30 to a panel than it is to make 100 pcb that is 30 times the size. If the customer wants their pcbs to work, anyway. One defect on every single panel of the small order still results in 2900 good boards per 100 panels.It's more likely they are losing money on many smaller multpcb panel orders that don't matter so much and don't really dedicate the time to catching and adjusting them all.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 05:40:15 am
content: Its true, they do catch it. Its also when I tell them I am going somewhere else. There was a place I was using consistently for my low volume stuff. Probably about $10k in 6 months which is not really huge business, but they where more than willing to let me walk away over a design with a few layouts.Seems strange, but they would not budge an inch. I have since spent about $25k on PCB fab, just not with them.Short and misplld from my mobile......

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 08:56:52 am
content: Quote from: KL27xAll what you say is very true.In my case, when I do a multi on a single pcb, I rarely have the total dims much greater than their std ~120x120mm. Usually I fill these up withthose 1001 little adapter / breakout / driver pcbs that are damn handy to have around.It also helps them, NOT having to deal with 100x 10x10mm, 5x20mm little cr@ppy pcbs that I couldn't care less if I lost a few.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 10:40:58 am
content: I hadn't even considered the assembly, if that is something you are also outsourcing. You can't X-out one board out of the group without consequences. Perhaps the component cost for that board is negligible and you just allow the bad board to populate as dead waste, but then you have to communicate a different BOM requirement to the customer. Which is more human capital just to iron out stupid details. And in the end, you have to make up any odd missing boards... which means.. hrmm. Well, it gets sorta complicated, doesn't it? More likely, no x-outs is the easiest way to deal with it.Instead of being able to parallel process 5 different panels through 5 lower cost machines, they will pile up in line for the more capable machine with the higher number of feeders. And you have to wait for parts for all 5 boards on hand before you can start.Post assembly inspection is more difficult. Instead of parallel processing 5 different panels to 5 different workers who have to inspect 1/5th the data, you either need each worker inspecting all 5, or you have to have different workers handling the same panels 5 times.Henry Ford figured out a lot of this stuff like 100 years ago. Maybe we are disconnected, just a little bit, to the actual process. Expecting multi-pcb panels at the same cost is just plain inconsiderate. Even if your boards are small, this costs when doing quantity.Maybe first order wasn't big enough for them to care. But after many repeat orders they realize this is not a small order, just a spaced out large order.QuoteThis requires enambiguous and precise communication which costs human capital (support/service). Failing that, misunderstanding and more human capital ensues.I ordered a super tiny, simple board with assembly. I was surprised when they arrived each tiny miserable board individually bagged in static cage ziplock bag. (There were no semiconductors on the board, even.) I didn't really think about it at the time of order, but I expected something like 100 per bag. Or even just a box with all 3000 of them. It was a PITA to open each one, and it cost them money. But failing the ability to read minds, it is probably less costly in the end to stick with the program if in any doubt. The customer can't complain for getting consistent service as agreed upon. And stopping to inquire can cause more damage than helping. If the customer is not expecting communication and doesn't answer immediately, there can be delay that can cause problems on both ends.That said, of course if I'm Rx8, I'm unhappy at this price hike. And compared to one single board, it probably does not cost more. Maybe it's just the opportunity cost. Like any business, there are more and less profitable services. And maybe even loss-leaders that are suffered in order to get the good business. Say you sell hotdogs at 200% profit margin and hamburgers at 0%, and someone orders 1000 hotdogs... but with stipulations that financially turn them into hamburgers.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 09:58:27 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on March 17, 2018, 10:40:58 amThese proto services are very low cost. Even with Chinese labor, they can't afford to spare any. Any work you need done (beyond the proto panelization, which is their thing, it saves production costs), expect to pay for it -- or do it yourself. This includes taking the time to shop around for another supplier, if one will not meet your unit pricing (for any particular reason or not).When you can't afford things, life is hard!On a related subject, I'm moderately impressed with PCBCart, who panelized a design for me, 10 pieces for $80. I provided one set of gerbers, containing three designs, to be built as four (two units of one board). They correctly read the drawing and sent a check plot. Probably would've been cheaper elsewhere, but I'm not picky enough to care.Tim

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 11:07:31 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on March 17, 2018, 10:40:58 amIn my case - I am doing the assembly myself and the PCB was routed and de-paneled by me as well. Submitted as a single Gerber, no V-score, internal routing, mouse bites, etc. - all that done by me. Literally - the exact same effort as a PCB with the same stack, dimensions, and features. In the USA - the base price is generally vastly higher than Chinese fabs so when they add an additional arbitrary fee it is time for me to run.Sunstone Circuits is a high quality, higher cost USA fab and they never cared what I did with the boards after I got them. They charged based on size, stack, and features as one would expect. I regularly saved a bit by grouping 5-6 very small designs myself and doing them at Sunstone. So, if I do USA based I will go with Sunstone or a few others that work the same way.When cost is an issue - I go to China and they sometimes charge for grouped designs but the base cost is so low it doesn't make much difference. In fact, Chinese fabs are so cheap that I usually don't even bother and let them do the work instead of me.

author: Honk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 19, 2018, 07:57:57 am
content: Well, you can try this input: (selected size, layers, copper and others doesn't seem to affect the results)5 designs, 100x200mm, 4 layers, 5pcs PCB, any color, Silkscreen both, 2oz copper.I haven't checked all manufacturers search result butElecrow returns: US$123.30 total, US$24.66 eachIf you go to their site you'll see that this isfor one design only. (as for some others as well)Change the search input to:1 design, 100x200mm, 4 layers, 5pcs PCB, any color, Silkscreen both, 2oz copperAnd the result is the same:US$123.30 total, US$24.66 each at ElecrowSo it seems the multiple design search is out of order, at least for some of the manufacturers.Perhaps you could look into this issue?Quote from: rea5245 on March 16, 2018, 12:41:39 pm

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2018, 02:45:08 pm
content: Hi Honk,Thank you for the specs. PCBShopper's price is correct.When you specify the number of designs on Elecrow's site, you are specifying the number of designsseparated by v-grooves. You can verify this by hovering the mouse over the "* eg" link on the "Different Design" line. A picture will pop up showing what Elecrow means by "different designs". Also,their FAQsays "(Two design PCB is separated by V-groove)".When you specify the number of designs on PCBShopper, you are specifying the number of designsnot separated by anything(other than, perhaps, a silkscreened line). You can verify this by hovering the mouse over the circled question mark next to "Number of Designs".I do it this way on PCBShopper because some companies charge extra for these un-separated extra designs. That's often a nasty surprise for customers: everyone expects to pay extra for v-grooves, but a lot of people are surprised when they're charged extra for a second design that, seemingly, doesn't cost the manufacturer any extra. I heard about it from enough irate users (they weren't mad at PCBShopper, they were mad at the manufacturer, but they let me know about it) that I added the Number of (unseparated) Designs field.I recently re-vamped PCBShopper's UI to make it look nicer. In the process, I got rid of long help texts that were sitting next to each entry field, and put them behind the circled question mark. So it used to be that I had always-visible text explaining what I meant by "Number of Designs", and now that text is hidden. I can see that at least in this case, that doesn't work well.So I've changed the label on that PCBShopper field so that it will be more obvious what I mean. I'm not crazy about the wording I used; if you can suggest something better, I'd appreciate it.Thanks,Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: Honk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 20, 2018, 12:58:30 pm
content: Hi Bob and thank you so much for great feedback.This really makes my day since I prefer Elecrow as board supplier for some years back.My designs usually contains several smaller boards that I separate by silkscreen lines.I was afraid of Elecrow abandoning their previous generous rules of free different designs.Their new online web quote doesn't mention straight forward that one can still freely fill up the board without extra cost.The V-Cut is not clearly stated by the pictures or by any text at the Different Design option.So this was perfect news for meGreat work with PCB shopper

author: 1276-2449-1-ND
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 01:57:30 pm
content: OMG, yes please add a "No Multi Design Surcharge" notice or toggle for easier filtering. "Number of Design Separated Only by Silkscreen" doesn't do anything to limit board houses who charge for pre-panellized designs.