Custom front panel - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 06:21:25 am
content: Hello. Instead of using PCB as an enclosure front panel, I am looking for a similar manufacturer for aluminum panels as PCBWay etc are for PCBs. There are some, but instead of spending hundreds for a single panel I would like to find cheaper options.I didn't find an old thread about this yet...br,A

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 05:03:28 pm
content: Look for a door sign manufacturer in your area. The can do engraving with colour filling and are used to making single/low quantites. Visit them and discuss what they an do.I've done this in several cases and the result looks great.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 05:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on May 28, 2021, 05:03:28 pmI might add to this; is to have machine readable files available for the manufacture. Ideally those files will be a common CAD file format. Anything that reduces the effort the contractor has to put in will help keep the price low. If they don't have the ability to drill holes or machine pockets, a CNC engraver can still do some of the most difficult parts of a front panel. That is get the lettering and drawing done and even layout the points that you would have to drill out manually.The other possibility here is to find a local hobbyist with a CNC router type machine. You might be able to get a machined front panel that way, if you find somebody that likes a challenge. Again a CAD file will be of great help.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 06:37:59 pm
content: Here are some options:Having your faceplate printed as a photo on aluminum, then milling the sheet to add holes, cutouts, etc:https://www.bayphoto.com/wall-displays/metalprints/. I've seen this done successfully, but when I tried it I found it difficult to mill the sheet without gumming up my bits. I know it can be done, I'm just not good enough at milling.It sounds like you've seen Front Panel Express:https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/. I've used them with excellent results for one-off projects, but they are too expensive for quantity low-cost jobs.If you don't like to look of PCB front panels, you might try using a different solder mask color. I've had these panels made by JLCPCB and they are decently rugged and ridiculously cheap. You will probably want to color the edges; I used a black permanent marker on the example here (see attachment), but blue ink looks better. There is copper on both sides and the round holes are plated-through

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 04:59:43 am
content: Hi,Thank you fourfathom for sharing bayphoto link. It is a nice idea indeed. And yes, I mainly referred to Front Panel Express by saying that there are suppliers but the price level is a limiting factor.And yes again, edges (of milled or routed panel) is one reason that made me to search for more options.A

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 09:31:37 am
content: My solution isn't nearly as elegant but it works... I printed the panel details on a sheet of paper and sandwiched it between two sheets of acrylic. I used a CNCroutermill to drill the stacked sheets so the locations were precise.I built theroutermill as a support project for the analog computer (photo attached) and the learning curve was fairly steep but it turned out great!ADD:I misspoke, the CNC router came about a year later. I built a CNC Mill from a Grizzly G0704 and used it for this project,'The mill was much cheaper when I bought it. I think it has to do with some trade tariffs.https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-7-x-27-1-hp-mill-drill-with-stand/g0704

author: Vincenzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 09:50:14 am
content: @fourfathomHow do you design/order a PCB with their easyEDA without a circuit or components? Can you refer to a video or link to an explanation?Thnx

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 05:43:18 pm
content: I'm using KiCad and it's quite easy:I create schematic components and footprints for my mounting screw and connector holes, with zero thermal relief specified for the footprints (this gives me a solid copper connection to the groundplane.)I create a schematic with these components connected to the ground net.The rectangular cutouts are done on the Edge.Cuts layer. The panel is also an Edge.Cuts rectangle with radiused corners. It would be nice to have the rectangular cutouts be through-plated with no groundplane relief, but I haven't tried this and don't know if this is possible.The front and back groundplanes are copper zones. I'm using the defaults on these, I don't know if there's a way to have these extend all the way to the board edges. As it is, there is a small edge relief.The silkscreen is a mix of plain text and a bit-mapped graphic for the logo.I have KiCad generate the Gerbers and Drill file, zip that, and send it to JLCPCB. It's quick, cheap, and easy, and so far the results have been very good. The solder mask and silkscreen appear to be quite rugged. Be sure to check the option to *not* have the JLCPCB job # added to the layout silkscreenI've got two designs that use the same front panel layout, and since it's X-Axis symmetrical I just have two different silkscreens on either side.I've not tried EasyEDA, so don't know if / how that might work for the faceplate.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 06:03:40 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 29, 2021, 09:31:37 amI print out the image on paper and laminate it, make the holes using a set of punches and glue it to the panel for a similar effect, it can look really clean. I even make windows for displays by cutting out the window in the paper with a hobby knife before laminating. I print out another copy and tape that on as a template to cut the holes.

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 07:53:52 pm
content: rstofer:I did exactly the same: built a router as a supporting project. Past years I got frustrated every time trying to manually drill precise enough. And not just drilling; trying to file cutouts of weirdly shaped connectors or lcd cutouts or... you name it. So, milling is not a problem. Black anodization and silk screening are something I am not going to do myself.And yes, I am looking for options to have aluminum front panels. I also have done all kinds of laminated, acrylic, etc. front panels in the past.A

author: Vincenzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 02:57:45 am
content: what does "built a router as a supporting project" mean?

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 05:28:45 am
content: Vincenzo:Well, for me it meant that I built a router to support the main project(s) I had at the time. In practice, I needed to do several rectangle (and other non-circular) cutouts. Today I mostly use the router for rapid PCB prototyping.A

author: Vincenzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 08:11:51 am
content: Thanks,that makes the side project bigger than the main one.How much did you wave your magical stick for the router to appear out of thin air?

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 02:33:49 pm
content: FWIW, I also got a CNC router when I was looking at faceplate solutions. The enclosures I get have blank black-anodized faceplates so I wanted to try milling the cutouts and text. This works for prototypes, but I discovered that it took too much time and preparation for this to be a practical solution for larger quantities.I got a "Shapeoko XL" (https://shop.carbide3d.com/products/shapeoko3?variant=14064078979133), which costs about $1,800. I use the mill for simple PCBs, mechanical fixtures and holders, etc. There is a learning curve, which I've only begun to climb.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 03:31:58 pm
content: Quote from: Vincenzo on May 30, 2021, 08:11:51 amAbove I attached my front panel photo and mentioned building a CNC router. I misspoke! I did build a CNC Router but that panel project was built with a CNC Mill which I also built. The mill came first by about a year.The hardware was easy, there's a kit of parts for the Grizzly GO704 mill so just throw money at it,The real effort is learning enough CAD to prepare the drawing and accurately position the holes. Then there is the matter of learning enough CAM to convert the panel drawing to cutting instructions, Finally, there is a bit to learn about using the machine controls to get the G codes working properly, In my case AutoCad->CamBam->Mach3. There's a lot to learn for such a simple project, I could have built some kind of 'step and repeat' fixture to get the jack spacing correct but where's the fun in that?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 03:52:13 pm
content: It is a real kick to watch a CNC mill/router cut one of these projects. Since most of the holes are cut with twist drills, a mill with a standard drill chuck is the easier solution. That front panel project had several drill changes and the large hole for the meter was cut with an end mill.Stand back and watch the magic!

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 03:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on May 28, 2021, 06:37:59 pmYes, I got some really nice extruded boxes with anodized end plates from Newark. But, the anodizing was like carbide cutting tools, and cutting even one small rectangular cutout with a solid carbide end mill destroyed the cutter.If I was going to make more, I'd have to throw away the end plates and mill them out of something like 6061 sheet and put a color-matching label over it. Never seen such issues with anodized aluminum before.If it really was gumming up, dead soft 3003 will do that.Jon

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 04:02:57 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 30, 2021, 03:52:13 pmYes, I make a lot of instrument panels on my CNC mill. What I do is machine all the larger holes with a 1/8" end mill. Only the smaller holes (smaller than 1/8") are drilled with a drill. I have a program that writes the G-code for milling out a hole, you just enter a few numbers (hole XY location, hole size, cutter size, panel thickness) and it writes the G-code.Then, you just string all those programs together with a text editor. It is faster than a bunch of tool changes.Jon

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 04:46:12 pm
content: My "CNC learning curve" started by ordering a few feet of aluminum profile. So I built mine from scratch. I am still a bit surprised that it can easily mill PCBs with components having 0.5mm pitch. I should build a new one since now I know a bit more how it should have done in the first place.For aluminum I only use 1/8" bit for milling. Smaller holes than that I use drill bits. First 3D modelling (the whole panel, or PCB, or whatever), then generating two toolpaths. One for drilling (all bit sizes) and another one for milling (all bit shapes). Softer materials I typically use 1.0mm or 1.2mm milling bits. Actually, earlier this week I tried to mill aluminum using 1.0mm and 1.2mm bits and very slow feed. This was due to corner radius. Well... it didn't work...For PCBs I run auto levelling across the whole surface. Otherwise shallow cuts (I use 0.1mm) would not be possible. (PCBs are not flat enough and mounting points on edges also make the surface to bend just a little bit).A

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 05:06:44 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on May 30, 2021, 02:33:49 pmExactly. This is the reason why I started to ask if someone is aware of a supplier that makes small quantities cheap enough.And yes, it takes a lot of time and energy to get everything ready before you can hit the Start button. (and less than 10 secs later you realize that your machine coordinates does not match the G code and you don't have spare panel... :-) )A

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 05:21:10 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 30, 2021, 04:02:57 pmOne of the problems with the G0704 Mill is that the spindle speed is too low to do any kind of decent routing. That meter hole was the only milling operation, everything else was drilled. My biggest concern was precise placement of the pin jacks. This is important because there are jumpers and dual-wire connectors and they assume accurate placement at 1/2" center-to-center. And there are a lot of tip jacks... The reason I didn't use banana jacks is the spacing is 3/4" center-to-center and that takes a lot more space.https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pomona-electronics/3452-2/736502https://www.muellerelectric.com/product_files/905/DS-BU-P2269.pdfThe other holes were pretty easy. The idea of using a small diameter end mill did occur to me but it really doesn't work well on acrylic at low spindle speeds. That's why I eventually built the CNC Router.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 05:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: axel15 on May 30, 2021, 05:06:44 pmAcrylic sheet is cheap. Cut some pieces to match the front panel and practice.

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 05:36:43 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 30, 2021, 05:22:23 pmYes, of course. My comment was more about clarifying that there are a lot to learn and still many things can go wrong. BTW, nowadays I seldom cut test pieces anymore. Instead I run G-code simulation enough to make sure I am good to go. But I can tell you, no matter how many test cuts you do or run simulations, the actual milling can still go wrong. I remember one time when in the middle of the milling the controlling software made a mistake and Z coordinate move by an inch or so. (that was a known issue with the software and there are YouTube videos of crashing big machines because of that).A

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 05:51:54 pm
content: Try Alibaba. Search for "Front Panel". Even if you need only 10 or 20, it may be worth doing.PCBWay does CNC milling as well. I don't know if they do finishing and printing. I've never used them. I think they're more expensive than Alibaba suppliers.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 06:25:30 pm
content: Quote from: axel15 on May 30, 2021, 05:36:43 pmThe learning curve is indeed tall and steep. I too ran the simulation inside Mach3 just to make sure there wasn't some kind of transformation going on. The cool thing about being retired is that I have plenty of time to learn new skills.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 10:41:09 pm
content: Quote from: axel15 on May 30, 2021, 04:46:12 pmSlow feeds allow heat to build up in one area, making the aluminum very soft. What you want is to make shallow cuts with a higher feedrate. keeping the cutter moving prevents heat from building in one spot. Also, use "climb milling". That is where the feed of the material is in the same direction of the turning of the cutter. This allows the cutting tooth to bite into the uncut material, rather than sliding along the previously-cut material until it finally punches through the incline. This greatly reduces friction heating and wear on the cutting tip.Jon

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 10:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 30, 2021, 10:41:09 pmYou could also get a cheap mist coolant system (or DIY one). It made a huge difference to me, so that I can make deep (for my tiny mill anyway) cuts without gumming up the cutter.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 11:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: axel15 on May 30, 2021, 05:06:44 pmBeen there. Learned the fine art of air cutting from that. But these days the GCode sender I use has a couple of features that make it super easy to sanity test everything before making chips.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 11:36:20 pm
content: Quote from: axel15 on May 28, 2021, 06:21:25 amPCBway are doing mechanical parts too, they advertise a 2D sheet CNC service with multiple surface finish options and silkscreening. Would love to see/hear some feedback/examples from that service (you test it first then I'll use it)

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 03:27:06 am
content: Have you looked at Front Panel Express? Might be more than you're looking to pay, but cost is per feature and very controllable. They did the front panel for my water monitor.

author: AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 04:52:42 pm
content: Hi,I have. It is an option in some cases. However, the price might be a limiting factor for some projects. (I think I have made a prototype to one company of a similar device you attached)A