EEVblog #541 - Mailbag - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 09:42:25 pm
content: Mailbag time.Playstation 3 Yellow LED of DeathLME49990http://www.ti.com/product/lme49990AD797http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD797.pdfSome vintage calculators:http://www.datamath.org/Related/Canon/Checkbook.htmThe first Teletype mailbag letter!Old Fluke Multimeter partsMicro robotic creatures!Private video

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 10:06:44 pm
content: We may all have already seen the inside of a PS3 before (I've certainly opened mine..), but none of the random, crappy teardowns give any intelligent, experienced insight into the design. Open 'er up.

author: Treehouseman
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 10:55:59 pm
content: After a quick google I found the Fluke parts to belong to the 8000A meter. There's actually a forum thread here,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/product-teardown-fluke-8000a/, with a teardown. I referenced the p/n on this site,http://www.talonix.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=4050#.UnA7cfmshcY. On the comments in the site linked in the teardown it also lists the same p/n of what you have.

author: ilanko
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 11:08:20 pm
content: Hi Dave, What the hell is :Fiducial" ?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 11:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: ilanko on October 29, 2013, 11:08:20 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiducial_marker

author: firehopper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 11:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: ilanko on October 29, 2013, 11:08:20 pmI think its also called a registration mark. so things get aligned properly.. I think..

author: ilanko
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 11:21:00 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 29, 2013, 11:13:09 pmThanks

author: Taucher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 12:33:54 am
content: Here the "secret" customs algorithm as seen many many times on TV in documentaries(yes, even original .AU customs)Code:IF ((parcel.from == South America) ; Uruguay will matchAND (parcel.contains(<seemingly unimportant things>)))THEN {$result = parcel.inspectIF (not $result == guilty)THEN {action.do(leave parcel open as revenge for lost time)}ELSE {TRY {CATCH(parcel.get_sender())CATCH(parcel.get_receiver())}}ELSE {;parcel not suspicious, ignore it}

author: grndkntrl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 03:11:46 am
content: First post from me, but have been watching loads of Dave's vid's over the past couple of weeks and loving them all for the "edutainment" value.I was almost hoping for a LHC teardown in this one when I saw the mention of it, but I guess if Dave was let loose on that beast, we'd probably never see him again!That cruddy stuff on the Canon calc pcb looks a bit like fag (cigarette) ash, although it seems to match up with the black strip on the reverse of the LCD - so it may just be the remains of some sort of adhesive that has gone manky after what must be almost a third of a century of use.That Teletype tape from Kjetil in Norway was pretty cool too, also the Hexbugs; I'll have to get a few of those for my niece & nephew who live in Cape Town!

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 03:39:36 am
content: The playstation have the classic YLOD (Yellow Light of Death), basically the same faulty on every modern electronic, BGA solder joint failure. The repair is pretty much guaranteed and not difficult, if you be carful taking it apart and re assembling it.I successfully repaired a few of then just heating the big chip (CPU and GPU named RSX) with a heat gun for a 3-5 minutes.The iFixIt guys have a very good guidehttp://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Yellow+Light+of+Death+Repair/3654Even if you don't repair it, I think would be a interesting teardown. In my opinion it have a very good build quality, nice attention to detail, the power supply is very robust, hardware if very shielded, the fan is huge. I would really like to hear what Dave think about the pcb design and construction.

author: stempile
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 04:19:37 am
content: Quote from: grndkntrl on October 30, 2013, 03:11:46 amHex bugs are fun. My co-worker's kids have a small army of them. Also of course there are many accessories to go with (cost more than the bugs). The kids have build up various tracks & tunnels, kind of a city. Also their Lego collection was added in for more crazy Hex Bug antics.I'd Rather find dead hex bugs under the sink than other kinds of bugs!

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 07:40:10 am
content: +1 PS3 teardown.Nothing beats real experience of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

author: moemoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 08:13:54 am
content: Probably you have to put some thought on which videos to produce, as more visits produce more money for youBut non the less I vote for a current noise video, as getting these things explained properly just is worth a lot. As they need some brain while watching, these in-depth videos are not watchable during the first coffee. And, of course, they are not just soft entertainment but require some really interest in the matter. My feeling tells me that quite some of the so called "hardware hackers" are in fact just stacking together some arduino shields and LEDs but are not really interested on analogue design.I just save them for a moment with a clear and awake brain, making sure I really understand what you say. I take the time to make notes and write down the information gathered, so I can recap it more easily when I need it or think it can be useful.

author: Otatiaro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 08:29:08 am
content: Just bought an Hexbug nano V2 and aquabot on amazon ...Thomas.

author: bktemp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 09:18:42 am
content: A teardown of the PS3 would be nice, because your teardowns are not just teardowns, they are more like a review of the internal design with all aspects from electronics to metal work and much more!And I also would like to see another opamp noise video showing some practical designs and their traps (like the noise generated from external resistors around the opamp). The input noise is sometimes not the only noise source: I needed a low noise, low offset opamp and had a TC913 laying around. The datasheet is not very detailed, but it says 0.65uVpp input noise (0.1-10Hz) but that was exactly what I needed for a precise dc measurement. Because it is a chopper opamp, it produces spikes in the range of a few mVpp at the output regardless of the input signal. This makes the low input noise completely useless in most cases.Maybe actually building something usefull like taking a cheap digital kitchen scale and adding a low noise amplifier to the strain gauge to get the best possible resolution by using one of your precision multimeters as the display.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 11:02:19 am
content: glad you like the t-shirt, i tried to get you a black one but there wasn't much choice!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 06:45:52 pm
content: The lines in the Sony E-Reader are caused by a crack in the screen.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 08:49:07 pm
content: +1 to keep going the series on noise on opamps... I loved the first one and find this a great source of information efficiently packed in a few minutes.

author: Steffen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 09:59:32 pm
content: That was a nice mailbag video. The "beer" you mentioned in the 'Rum Zit laybor' (RaumZeitLabor) hackerspace postcard scene is not a beer. It's actually Club Mate. A sweet soft drink based on mate tea. It contains caffeine and the beverage drunken by hackers (and hipsters) in Germany, Europe and probably the rest of the world.Club Mateis very tasty. I don't know if it's also available in Australia.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2013, 10:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 30, 2013, 06:45:52 pmNo crack that I could see and the screen is made of a soft plastic not glass. I think it might be something to do with sunlight it was lft where the sun could shine on it, although it was in its sleeve there was a sony mp3 player on top and the L shape lines are exactly the same size as two sides of the MP3 player.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 01:15:15 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 29, 2013, 10:06:44 pmI was excited to see a teardown on the PS3 and was bummed when Dave didn't do it.I think most folks who look at existing teardowns are looking at how to reflow a BGA GPU or something - those teardowns offer no insight into the actual design.Considering the PS3 was hyped to such a level (remember Sony hyping how it was so powerful it could be exported to some countries because of the 'weapons grade' computing power, or some such)... I would love to see a practical engineer's view on it.Hope you reconsider, Dave!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 02:09:08 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on October 30, 2013, 10:16:38 pmLCDs and E-Ink screens can crack internally without outside cracking. The crack generates a black area with lines radiating out from it.

author: DutchGert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 09:04:36 am
content: Quote from: bktemp on October 30, 2013, 09:18:42 amYes! I also would like a teardown of the PS3 with a "review" of the layout and perhaps a bit focus on the PSU?Also a practical op-amp video would be very nice, i think that will also increase popularoty of the one u did that is more theoretical.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:00:29 am
content: Agree with an EE's paradigm at the PS3 teardown, especially if Dave happened to identify the culprit and its an easy fix or better some tips on common problems, believe the video will have high view counts, which is eventually good for Dave, just a thought.

author: u271D
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 12:23:32 pm
content: Hope you liked the 3D post card; if you get to California you should check out the giant sequoia General Sherman southern, CA and the coastal redwoods of northern, CA. They are among the largest trees in the world.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 12:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: u271D on October 31, 2013, 12:23:32 pmBeen there, got the shirt

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 05:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: grndkntrl on October 30, 2013, 03:11:46 amI seriously love that machine ;-) It just reaks of vintage. Those bugs were awesome too, have to get some of those

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 06:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 31, 2013, 12:50:35 pmDave has shoes!Lol

author: rr100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 07:41:00 pm
content: Quote from: Steffen on October 30, 2013, 09:59:32 pmYep, I was like "but but but ..." when watching the video. Club Mate, no beer.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 08:03:04 pm
content: Quote from: grndkntrl on October 30, 2013, 03:11:46 amLarge Hadron Collider teardown would be nice

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 08:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: owiecc on October 31, 2013, 08:03:04 pmI don't think Dave has an army of construction workers for that one.

author: Slothie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:08:42 pm
content: Quote from: Kjetil on October 31, 2013, 05:52:29 pmI wrote my first programs sitting at the keyboard of an ASR-33 Teletype. To edit a program, you had to put the tape in the reader, step through it till you got to where you needed to change something and type in what needed inserting and/or skip over what needed deleting. For the really hard-core nerds you could get boxes of self-adhesive tape with all the holes punched out to join paper tape, allowing you to cut the tape with scissors & join in new bits of tape. If you were posh you could get an alignment guide, otherwise you did it by eye.Kids of today &c &c....

author: james42519
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 01, 2013, 05:48:00 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on October 31, 2013, 01:15:15 amwell they kinda have some of that here on stuff.http://www.ifixit.com/Device/PlayStation_3

author: CHexclaim
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 06:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 31, 2013, 12:50:35 pmDave, what did you get the shrink ray?

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:32:26 pm
content: New around here and didn't know what the mailbag vids were and this one sounded interesting with the PS3. The infamous PS3 YLOD issue is a huge consumer electronics fail and it might be interesting for that reason but from a historic perspective it would be interesting because in a year or two there will probably be a chance to do a PS4 teardown. Having a PS3 teardown to compare would show the evolution of the console design and reveal other interesting things about design choices, including suppliers, etc. Maybe do an abbreviated teardown starting after you've disassembled it down to the main internal components. I think most here are only interested in the specifics and your expertise in spotting the good, the bad and the ugly.

author: suhayl_khan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 05:28:10 pm
content: Receiving a printed letter via a Teletype Model 33 along with a paper tape copy is awesome!I made the following video commemorating the 25th Anniversary of the World Wide Web using an ASR-33 Teletype to access the first webpage:Hope you all enjoy!

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2014, 01:51:05 am
content: Hello Suhayl and Welcome to the forum,Yes I did in enjoy your video, well done. Thanks for making me feel like a fossilasshol..young-guy!To age my self, I was a teenager in the 70's who did the bill gates thing; I would travel 45 Km(*1) one way to one of the local universities just to sneak into the various computer labs and steal mainframe time. So I used the venerable IBM 029 keypunch and ASR33 and witnessed the phasing out of the same. Got my first modem an Andersen-jacobsen 300 baud acoustic and a dumb CRT terminal (Volker-Graig,from Waterloo) in 1979 so I could access the Univ. computers from home. I hope the young peeps, generation Y or millenials, or what ever you call your selves, seeing this video understand the conflation of eras. In 1992 no lab I know off still had ASR33's and I found that juxtipostion somewhat odd. Still liked your video though, you should make more.(*1) note: In the dead of winter in Winnipeg, so yeah, worse than the obligatory uphill in the blizzard both ways!

author: suhayl_khan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 04, 2014, 02:23:40 pm
content: Thanks for the welcome and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!Was the ASR33 that you used directly connected to a mainframe or did you need to dial into a system located remotely via the teletype and a modem?Ouch, those Winnipeg winters must be rough!Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on March 31, 2014, 01:51:05 amYes the ASR33 does pre-date the web by quite some time. I explain why I used the ASR-33 teletype here:http://first-website.web.cern.ch/blog/accessing-line-mode-browser-1960s-tech

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2014, 03:01:23 am
content: Quote from: suhayl_khan on April 04, 2014, 02:23:40 pmThis is the part I should have expanded on: I never used a ASR 33! Oh sure I had seen them around various places, I know I played with the keyboard of one to check the keyswitch action but all of the uni labs had other equipment by at least the mid seventies when I started my raids. The unversity of winnipeg rented cpu time from the univ. of Manitoba so you would always be ultimately using the same computer(s) no matter which campus you went to. There were two ways to get hard copy from a program: batch operation you punched a program onto cards and then walked to a card reader either self-serv or manned by an operator. Your deck would be added to cards already in the hopper with a colored blank separator card or colored IBM JCL (job control language) to facilitate seperation later. The JCL designated what resource-limits your program would receive. The card reader would transmit on a dedicated line to an IBM sub-system called remote job entry and it would run with the output coming back to a line printer which would bang out a line of print with a row of solenoids on 132 column fan-fold paper. You would get your printed output, look at errors you made and throw your paper in a recycling box. It was very wasteful and inefficient, but carefull and disciplined programmers like myself who learned how to desk check their code could minimize the number of debugging runs.The other way was to use the various types of terminals. By far the most common print terminal were DEC LA36 DECwriters which used a dot matrix print head and accepted the same 132 column fan-fold paper mention above. Google images for the DECwriter. They didn't actually buy paper for these printers, you used the back side of discarded remnants from the line printer recycling box. I won't link the one youbube video of a DECwriter because it has such poor quality audio and video compared to yours. That video doesn't capture the one quirk I remember most; when typing in program the print head would local echo what you are typing and be in the way. So if there was a pause in your typing the head would back off 6 spaces or there abouts exposing the print and just sit there and "quiver" for a second. You could find this endearing or slightly annoying. I never really warmed up to the DECwriters as they were functional but the dot matrix output was not beautiful. If you really want the cadilac print terminal of that time get an IBM selectric. They have a tactile quality to them compared to the others you need to experience hands on. There were other hard copy terminals besides, I can remember 2 daisy wheel printers, but DECwriters predominated. Towards the end of the seventies CRT terminals replaced almost everything.As to modems the small lab in the Univ. Wpg had them, even an acoustic coupled one which was retired around 1977, but none came in such a fancy wooden box like the one you have. So yes you would dial in from there, or later I dialed in from home hogging the telephone line for hours. The thing about the univ. of wpg which always brought me back was that I was allowed to do as I pleased unmolested, and most importantly, the guy running the place (P.R.King) put up APL account login in credentials on the wall at every terminal !. Add to that people would leave their discarded session transcripts lying around and I had struck an auto-didact's gold mine. I taught myself APL in about 6 months with off and on experimentation and the IBM APL progammers reference card from the university book store and became a very competent APLer. That was a deeply formative and influential learning place for me.enough boring geezer bla bla, I got shit to do today.

author: richfiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2014, 12:37:51 am
content: So, it would seem Google has been ghost commenting a number of my posts, including some posts to the EEVblog...I'm removing the youtube video links from the YT post and see if that fixes it. You'll just have to search for the videos yourselves by their titles...Or come here to the forum!I don't even know if ANY of my Youtube comments are posting.Google/Youtube, getting tired of your shenanigans!There is a particular video game made for the Playstation 3 (and an updated sequel that'll be available for the Playstation 4 eventually) called "Little Big Planet". The game's create mode really sets it apart from most video games. ever since LBP 2, they added digital logic objects to the create mode. I have seen all manner of devices created in the game, including numerous calculators and even a rudimentary 8 bit computer with a hex keypad and display that executes machine language instructions!LBP2: Da Vinci CPU v2 - Brief Explaination and DemoIt's OBVIOUSLY no Spice, but it IS cool that it teaches people the basics of digital logic in the disguise of a video game! I'm HOPING that LBP 3 (for PS4 later this year) adds "truer" flip-flops, memory "chips", and buses. Their current implementation of flip-flops is not very true to what's commonly available, though you can make them from scratch from regular logic, of course. I made a 256 bit ROM chip in the game (8 bit x 32, 5 bit addressed), to use for general purpose program storage in game. Also made a lovely "smart" hexadecimal LED dot matrix display with 4 bit latching inputs... basically a clone of the old TIL311 with a slightly prettier, slightly higher resolution dot pattern. Also made a nixie tube in the game that clones the general look okay... I'd like to redo it sometime, make the numeral filaments thinner.I'm kinda waiting on the PS4 version myself, as I'm hoping they include some of the improvements I and others in the forums have suggested. They seem to have a good back and forth in their forums. The whole logic circuitry concepts were implemented in LBP 2, because they saw people use the pistons and the magnetic tags and sensors that were construction items in the first game to create digital logic. You put two pistons in line with one another, with a magnetic tag on the end, and a sensor at the end of the assembly, and you had an AND gate. Both pistons HAD to be extended for the tag to reach the sensor. A pair of Pistons side by side, with a tag sensor between operated as an OR gate. I don't recall the piston, tag, and sensor configuration for an XOR gate, but it also existed. All outputs of the tag sensors could be inverted as a setting, thus you had AND, NAND, OR, NOR, XOR, XNOR, and you could have a NOT by having a piston, tag and sensor by itself, with the output inverted.People made basic calculators in the original game, using these virtual electromechanical arrangements!LittleBigPlanet : Little Big ComputerMedia Molecule saw what people were doing by creating logic, so they just dumped digital logic into the next game int he form of "microchips" You placed a microchip into your created level, and then opened it. It provides a resizable working area to drop logic gates and other functional elements on, and then you wire them up. You can next multiple microchips within microchips, so it's real easy to create, lets say an SR Flip-Flop, a JK lip-Flop, a D Flip-Flop, a Half Adder, a Full Adder, etc... You created a common element and then reused it as needed inside other elements. You can even give away your created objects, chips included, as prizes for meeting certain goals in your created level, or simply just give them away.As I said before, I and other forum users suggested many improvements that would make creation even easier. I suggested adding "memory" chips, because it would alleviate a good portion of circuit simulation in creating memory from individual elements of OR networks to simulate diode ROMS, or flip-flops to simulate RAM, by letting the system turn it into simple value tables, letting the simulation free resources for other creator content. Another area where performance could be gained in create mode, was the wire auto routing. The game autoroutes wires on the fly, but on large designs this can become a mess. I simply suggested the addition of busses with user dropped guide points. This would clean up the rats nest of wires, and alleviate some of the performance lost on rampant auto routing. My final suggestion was to simply add TRUE flip-flops, so we can stop relying on making them from scratch, and to teach people REAL logic device behavior!Basically, it was a fun way to introduce people to digital logic, via video game!I also learned that some of the less standard components have been being played with by some people to create "analog" circuits! There is one part that can be used in a fashion similar to that of an op amp. This guy is doing some amazing things with simulated analog parts! it also goes to show just how versatile the game's creation mode is! He's doing what amounts to an analog computer to add and subtract values. Sadly, the tools are less like real analog parts here,and it's full of bodges, but the creativity in this guy's work just oozes off the screen!LBP2 - Analog Memory Cells & Other Useful Electronics?If you ever manage to snag a PS3, try to find a copy of Little Big Planet 2, just so you can see what a few of the creative minds out there have done with it's virtual electronic components!