Career: PhD in Physics or Job @ big electronic company? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 07:33:44 am
content: I'm 25 and I've just graduated in Electronic Engineering (MSc).Should I go for a PhD in experimental Physics (in London) or a job position (product development) in a big electronic company?I don't want to stay in academia but I'd like to earn $$$... Is a Dr paied more?thank you

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 07:54:40 am
content: Nope - at least, not in my country. (Where are you BTW?)A PhD is fine if you enjoy your subject that much and can afford to do it, but I'm not even sure it looks all that good on your CV unless you're applying for the type of job where it's specifically required. To me it suggests that someone may be too specialised and/or unwilling to leave the ivory tower and get involved in industry.IMHO you have the degree you need already, now it's time to start gaining experience. What you go on to earn no longer depends on your qualifications, it depends on the career decisions you make and the opportunities you're able to take advantage of.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 07:59:29 am
content: Quote from: s.mosfet on September 17, 2013, 07:33:44 amYou just answered your own question.The other part of the question is irrelevant.Do what makes you happy.

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:11:42 am
content: If you talk with those who don't have a PhD, they say it's not useful...If you talk with those who have a PhD, thay say you can earn more in the future, in comparison to a BSc or MSc....bah!

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:26:42 am
content: Can either group back that up with evidence, or is it just confirmation bias?

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:38:41 am
content: ..with evidence.Anyway it seems the pro-job voices are more (i.e. in the internet), maybe because there are more people without a PhD...?

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:48:26 am
content: Don't do your PhD in physics. I'm a disillusioned PhD student and almost done with my thesis. Wish I hadn't wasted 3 years of my life. You can read aboutmy reasons. Also read the comments for different opinions and additional information.Bottom line: The hours are too crappy and withyour average institutemost of the research groups you can't do it for idealism any more either. I'm not bitter at all, actually quite happy with my life but I could've done better in a regular job. Also doing your job for the money is stupid and bleeds you out. Do what really motivates you. As long as you have enough to live it's gonna be the better life.

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:58:36 am
content: "your average institute" ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 09:14:31 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on September 17, 2013, 08:48:26 amUnless you want to teach it I guess, or stay with basic research (which there is not much money in)I know someone with a PhD in physics who could never get a job in the industry so went back to study to become a patent attorney.It is generally known in the industry that a PhD will generally not help you get a higher paying general job in the industry.So if you are talking in general, and not specific instances like an all-Phd Startup in your area of interest, or a company run by a lot of PhD's that like to hire PhD's (not very common) for example, then the general answer would have to be be no. You generally wouldn't expect a PhD to earn you more money.Because the industry generally does not work on pay grades based on your education. Or at least it doesn't once you get past a general degree differential for example. Pay levels are usually based on your experience and the job at hand. If you have 10 years experience in X with a PhD, and another girl has the same 10 years experience but only a Masters (or even a normal degree), she isn't going to automatically get paid less. That doesn't really happen.As always, YMMV.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 09:21:17 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on September 17, 2013, 08:26:42 amThere are such a large number of variables here I don't think that's even practical.And even if you based it on a general survey of how much a person with masters degree earns vs PhD, then how do you know there isn't bias of various forms in that data set already?Is it really meaningful?You'd have to break it down into at the very least similar fields and similar work type before the data became really meaningful.i.e. you could compare analog design engineers with a masters vs analog design engineers with a PhD. But is it valid to compare just generic "engineers"?

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 09:36:37 am
content: You are right.But we should also take in account prestige, not only money.I'm very indecisive... uff!!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 09:43:34 am
content: Quote from: s.mosfet on September 17, 2013, 09:36:37 amThere is no "we", only "you".If you want a more prestigious title, sure, spend the few extra years getting your PhD.Just don't cry when someone else comes along and waves their fellowship award in your face, or industry medal, or 2nd PhD, or Knighthood, or Nobel prize etc in your face.

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 09:53:21 am
content: ehehehe ok

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 10:10:29 am
content: Quote from: s.mosfet on September 17, 2013, 09:36:37 amReally? Seems you are dead set on a PhD. In the end, do whatever you like. If you decide in favour of those three letters, choose your supervisor very very carefully (i.e. talk to former students about him/her).

author: profmason
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 10:10:50 am
content: Don't do a phd in Physics unless you are exceptionally serious about it. If you are, certainly don't do it in the UK except at the big three if you are coming from out of discipline.I did a Msc engineering from UK after my 4 years of phd work in Physics in US. Support for Physics in the UK is lacking (number of universities have eliminated Physics programs including most of the old red bricks) US support for Physics is much better.Your phd experience also depends on the group you are in. Consider the personalities.As an employee there is little difference in pay between msc and phd except in academe. However in trying to attract capital or grants for projects, having a phd helps.In the end, get a job now. UK is much more friendly to mid career phd then US.Cheers,Prof mason

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 10:28:14 am
content: I don't like football.I like electronics.

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 12:01:56 pm
content: I'm a PhD (microelectronics). I've completed my PhD as a self-financed student while working in a microelectronic company. Many years later, I'm a CEO.In my job (reliability of advanced electronic devices), having a PhD is a plus, almost a requirement. We are constantly dealing with fairly complex stuff, from semiconductor physics to large systems, we have to stay relevant in our field through collaborative R&D projects, peer-reviewed papers and publications, collaborations with rather intelligent partners and so on.I've encouraged and I'm co-tutoring two of my engineers to pursue PhDs while working for the company. (While not comfortable, this is quite possible)If I have to hire somebody on a R&D position (70% of my company workforce) I would ask one of our academic partners (professors, PhD advisers) to recommend us a good PhD student or I would make an offer to a researcher/engineer who I already know. The salary is of course mainly related to the job, meaning that an engineer or a PhD will make the same salary. While a good engineer could potentially fill the job requirements, it is more probable that the job is fit more for a PhD.However, don't do a Physics PhD. Too many of my friends have a PhD in Physics and they struggle to find a stable job. They chain short (1-2 years) post-doctoral jobs one after another, relocating hundreds or thousands of km for each new job.Best regards,Dan

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 12:32:30 pm
content: How does your work look as a CEO?Do you still do any of the research/engineering, or do you mostly supervise and guide your employees now?

author: s.mosfet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 12:39:39 pm
content: So, maybe I should find a PhD in silicon microelectronics... but now it's too late to start now, I should wait 1 year... and in the meantime?

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 01:42:06 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on September 17, 2013, 12:32:30 pmThank you for your questions.We are a small company (20+ people), and there is absolutely no place for the megalomaniac, golden parachute, stock-options-as-toilet-paper management.I'm still doing a lot of a lot of actual work (or at least that's my impression and I'm sticking to it).I'm also spending a lot of effort and time in preparing and contributing to European (or more generally speaking publicly founded) R&D projects. I rather like this part because it's a very nice collaboration framework that allows many people (academy, SMEs, big companies) to significantly exchange and work together.Working in research is also rewarding, if you like the stuff. Conferences, publications, social networks and events, peer respect are meaningful and valuable for many people.In any case, industry has his own challenges. It's no easy job. Independently of the individual success of selected companies, I still think that the overall US and Europe industry will have much to suffer in the future. I'm undecided yet if I envy or not some of the academy people I know (you know, job security and stuff).Best regards,Dan

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 04:38:03 pm
content: You got your answer in the second response. There really is no better answer than this. Do what makes you happy and the rest falls in line.Quote from: EEVblog on September 17, 2013, 07:59:29 am

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 04:47:59 pm
content: Quote from: s.mosfet on September 17, 2013, 07:33:44 amif you are only doing it for the money you won't have much joy in your professional life...

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 04:58:57 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 17, 2013, 04:47:59 pmDitto. Add to the fact that a new PhD in physics makes about 6x-ish k/year here and yeah.. You're way better off using your MSc in EE for a job.If you really want a doctorate to do electronics work with, (but mostly to say YAY PHD!) do one in EE.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 05:08:41 pm
content: Quote from: s.mosfet on September 17, 2013, 07:33:44 amI went to probably one of the best universities in the USA for physics. I really enjoy physics and I had the idea to become an astrophysicist. I thought that going to a top school and getting a top degree would be a sure-fire way to a high salary and fun life.Then I grew up and matured a bit and, like you, realized I had no desire to be in the academic world at all. EverNot only that, I realized that most of the people I knew who were wealthy were business owners or investors.So the question I would put to you is... let's say you get a PhD in experimental physics from a good university. What are you going to do with that degree that ISN'T in academia? I am sure there are some options, but they are probably relatively scarce. On the other hand, product development in a big electronics company would probably open many doors and give you the option to live where you want to live and have many choices of potential employers.As for earning $$$, it's really about being very good in your field (i.e. you are more valuable). If you don't really like the physics, you might find you don't invest the time to get really good and that might seriously limit your earning potential.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 05:29:13 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 17, 2013, 09:14:31 amTheAmpHour listeners know this is your brother in law.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 06:21:11 pm
content: Dave answered the question very early. Do what makes you happy. If making heaps of money is what will make you happy then become a lawyer or an investor. If money would be a nice side benefit of doing something that makes you happy, then do something that makes you happy. Life is too short to not be happy. There are also studies that show that show that generally the more wealthy you are the more of an ass you are to other people. So to be more happy and a better person, do what makes you happy as long as you have enough money to live.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:02:39 pm
content: Dear OP, money and qualifications clash. Employee and money don't fit together. Employee and enjoying your work just don't match.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 08:41:20 pm
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on September 17, 2013, 08:02:39 pm??

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 09:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on September 17, 2013, 08:41:20 pmShocking?

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2013, 10:00:23 pm
content: No. Just don't understand the point made.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2013, 04:26:13 am
content: Not shocking, just jaded and wrong.Those things are not mutually exclusive.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2013, 01:52:51 pm
content: I know some engineers that are still doing hands on work, 35 hours a week earning £100k a year with a B.Sc. I know PhDs sat at the next desk to someone with an HND (high grade technician qualification) and with similar experience, however the PhD earns less as he is neither as good or as hardworking. The qualifications really don't make much difference a few years out from university.To quote Aleister Crowley, "Do what thou wilt." Unless you want to spend three years living on a crap grant whilst playing with physics, go and get a real job.