my new soldering iron "stand" (bad idea lol) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 03:37:16 pm
content: huge ball of "iron" ... $1i didnt think it would stuck in and stand, but it did ! ... and it did soak up some of that flux smoke !i think i need to look for a large candy tin can now ...

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 12:24:51 pm
content: you'll also need to look for some new bits, as that steel will scratch off the coating.

author: FlevasGR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 12:30:19 pm
content: I used to but those and stick the iron inside but it's not that good for your tip. Better buy sponges from ebay if you want a good cleaning solutionhttp://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=water+sponges&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xsoldering+station+sponges.TRS0&_nkw=soldering+station+sponges&ghostText=&_sacat=0

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 12:45:24 pm
content: not even the brass?then i guess i will get the spongies

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 11:38:18 am
content: The stainless steel wool is tougher than the iron plating on the tips, so will go through them quickly. Brass is softer than the iron plating however, which will help preserve your tip's service life.BTW, the brass wools sold by soldering iron manufacturers or 3rd party soldering consumable manufacturers are typically coated with flux, which is why they tend to work better than what you'd find amongst household cleaners.

author: atferrari
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 02:29:34 pm
content: I have always used, and still use, thick paper napkins siting on the bench under the the iron stand.Zero problems.

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 04:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on March 06, 2015, 03:37:16 pmHehe... i am using one of those tooHave been for quite some time now.I was worried about the hardness too and that this might ruin my tips, but i thought to myself:"You should get at least two new ones annyway, that will give you an excuse to buy new ones."That was... i dont know... a long time ago.My genuine Ersa tips still show no sign of wear, but yes, if you can go for the brass.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 06:28:03 pm
content: i thought the scraping was "good", so it is bad.before bought 1 of these this, i was thinking all those soldering stations sporting a ball of brass was a new and better way. i got a brass ball version, the ball was very light duty and did very well, so i thought maybe have something more heavy dutybut way back before i use them metal curly balls, i use a ball of wet cloth, i didnt like the sponge because of the flimsy stand. the sponge would slide aroundi guess it is time to revamp the entire DIY soldering station of minethere is a knock off hakko 936, they call themselves HAKIO 936... i think ima try it. USD15 approxit seems to be slightly different from some 936 knock offs discussed in this forum as in the transformer. i will probably add to that thread once i get it

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 08:36:46 pm
content: Quote from: PeterFW on March 08, 2015, 04:01:47 pmErsa makes great tips from what I've heard from owners (thick plating). Unfortunately, they're very rare thus far here in the US (never seen one in-person).Quote from: 3roomlab on March 08, 2015, 06:28:03 pmAh, ye olde "go big, or go home" school of thinking.In the meantime, if you're after a heavy enough DIY iron stand to prevent it from shifting all over on you, you can substitute in a ceramic coffee mug until you make or buy what you really want (toss brass wool/s in the bottom).

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 08:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: FlevasGR on March 07, 2015, 12:30:19 pmQuote from: 3roomlab on March 07, 2015, 12:45:24 pmNever use a steel curls, as steel is harder than the tip plating and hence will wear it down.But brass curls is actually better for the tips than a traditional wet/moist sponge. Brass is softer than the tip plating so it won't damage the tips unlike the much harder steel curls.The tips will last longer if you drop the old-school wet/moist sponges and use the new-school brass "dry sponges" instead. There's a reason why they introduced brass to replace traditional wet sponges when lead free solder was introduced.Sources:Wet Sponge Cleaning vs. Dry Brass Sponge Cleaninghttp://www.eptac.com/wet-sponge-cleaning-vs-dry-brass-sponge-cleaning/QuoteEasybraid Co.TECHNICAL NOTESUGGESTED TIP CARE PROCEDUREhttp://www.easybraidco.com/images/Easybraid%20%20Suggested%20Tip%20Care%20Procedure.pdfQuote

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 10:33:27 pm
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on March 08, 2015, 08:48:48 pmQuote from: AndersAnd on March 08, 2015, 08:48:48 pmYes, and that was due to the higher temperatures associated with lead-free alloys.A damp sponge worked extremely well for lead based alloys, and is why it was the standard for decades.So is a brass wool better than a wet sponge for lead based alloys?Personally, I'm not totally sure.Both work, but I actually think the damp sponge may do a better job of it from a technical standpoint (i.e. I get a thinner tinned coating vs. brass wool, and it's easier to get it to the thickness I want). But the damp sponge doesn't offer a drastic improvement over the brass wool overall IME, even though it seems harder to get the thickness of the tinning I'd like (may just be a matter of practice/familiarity; I've decades worth on a sponge). And it's certainly less convenient than brass wool (you have to keep a bottle of distilled water on hand, and keep it at the right moisture level vs. just stab-n-go with brass wool).Close enough I consider it more a preference issue than performance when using lead based alloys. If using lead-free OTOH, the brass wool definitely has the edge on performance as well as convenience.FWIW, I've grown to love the convenience of the brass wool regardless of the alloy (I predominantly use 63/37, so call me lazy).

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 10:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 08, 2015, 08:36:46 pmmmm great idea. mug !brass seems softer. but after some rather heavy use, the solder gets caught inside ... and it also kind of become harder to use now.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 03:05:17 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on March 08, 2015, 10:56:12 pmRoll it around in your hands and see what you can get to fall out and/or expose less used/fresh brass wool. And when that's not enough to get it to clean again, it's time to replace it.Even a name brand is inexpensive in this case.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 10:42:54 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 08, 2015, 10:33:27 pmI believe it has more to do with the fact that lead-free solders are much more corrosive than tin-lead solders.Even if you use the same tip at the same temperature it will last much shorter using lead-free solder than tin-lead solder. Lead-free solders has a much higher tin content than regular 60/40 or 63/37 tin-lead solders. And high tin solders are much more corrosive towards iron tips than regular tin-lead solders:http://www.eptac.com/wet-sponge-cleaning-vs-dry-brass-sponge-cleaning/Quotehttp://www.kester.com/kester-content/uploads/2013/06/Lead-free-Handsoldering.Final_.4.19.06.pdfQuoteBut even if you still use tin-lead solder for your hand soldering, tips will probably often come in contact with highly corrosive lead-free solder if you do rework on existing lead-free PCBs.But as mentioned earlier, never leave your tip cleaned in the stand, instead always put some solder on the tip to stop prevent oxidation.It's also very important to make sure your tip has been covered in solder before turning the iron off.A lot of people aren't aware of this and has the bad habit of cleaning the tip for any solder before putting it in the stand and before turning it off. But this is a very bad idea, you should do the opposite and make sure the tip is always covered in solder.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 12:56:37 am
content: What I do is clean the tip, turn off the iron and then coat the tip is fresh solder. I rotate the handle until the solder has cooled enough to cover all around the tip. The tips gets cleaned before getting protected.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 01:09:10 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on March 08, 2015, 10:56:12 pmI've used a ceramic mug and SS wool for some time now and IME the fluxes and higher temps of lead free solder are harder on tips than the SS wool.And solder does not stick to SS wool.

author: DanielS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 01:20:41 am
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on March 09, 2015, 10:42:54 pmNot corrosive. Leeching or alloying. Lead-free solder tends to alloy with nearly all metal finishes, so lead-free often includes other metals, like copper, gold and silver to both reduce leeching and make solder less susceptible to "tin plague."

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2015, 05:06:48 am
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on March 09, 2015, 10:42:54 pmYou're talking about lead-free alloy's affinity for iron, and what does this have to do with the method of cleaning the tips?I was referring to the temperature differential between lead based and lead-free alloys when using a damp sponge. With the older lead based alloys, the temperature loss was a lot less when it came into contact with the damp sponge. Which prevents the iron plating from cracking and exposing the copper beneath it. With the higher temperatures of lead-free alloys however, the plating can crack, severely reducing the lifespan of the tip.Quote from: AndersAnd on March 09, 2015, 10:42:54 pmAgain, this is affinity of lead-free alloys for iron (other metals too as Daniel S mentioned). FWIW, it leaches copper faster than lead based alloys as well, which further contributes to the shorter tip life.Quote from: AndersAnd on March 09, 2015, 10:42:54 pmWhich is why brand name manufacturers came out with what they called lead-free versions (i.e. might see LF in the simple P/N), if not just change their entire line to deal with this issue (solution = thicker iron plating; not perfect, but it didn't require any changes to existing assembly lines).Quote from: AndersAnd on March 09, 2015, 10:42:54 pmIf you're not using dedicated tips for each, certainly.Mine do, as I'm not going to acquire that many tips for each (I use the rinse method to deal with the "unknown alloy" problem). But they're also of recent enough vintage they've the thicker plating. Using some since 2008 and they still look to be in good shape.Flux used also makes a difference on tip life, but that's another mine field.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 03:04:53 am
content: then Pb-free tip would be even more lasting in normal leaded applications right?i have not seen any youtube as to lifespan comparison tests, dont think anyone has that many irons to "destroy" to test lifespan(but i did quite a few haha !)come to think of it, how do anyone really know a tip really last longer than another? (maybe this kind of dippy test?)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 12:42:37 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on March 11, 2015, 03:04:53 amAssuming you're not doing something you're not supposed to for electronics (i.e. sanding your tips, using plumbers flux, ...), then Yes.Quote from: 3roomlab on March 11, 2015, 03:04:53 amEither the variations of solder remaining on the tips (tinning) or missing copper beneath the plating (leached out) would throw the results if based on weight. So you'd want to use microscopy to measure the thickness of the plating layers after performing identical tests on the same tip P/N (cut the tip to make a cross-section, then examine under a microscope). Did this sort of thing as part of a QC regimen for incoming electronic components before clearing them for use on the assembly line in the past.If you search, I suspect you might find documentation with micrograph images by soldering station manufacturers in a technical paper (i.e. look for something like "failure analysis" of tips using lead-free alloys).