[NOT RACISM] Working with Pakistani that stinks - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: blueskull
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 02:11:04 pm
content: THIS IS NOT RACISM! READ BELOW! I WOULDN'T HAVE ASKED IF I HAD A BETTER OPTION.So, we have a new PhD student from Pakistan, and this guy stinks. Not the worst I've seen, but I certainly don't want to be in the same office with him.Normally I would give him time to discover deodorant, or wait for someone else to point him to the right direction, but here in China, most people don't have body odor, and most have no idea what a deodorant is.And giving him time certainly is not an option -- he has been in China for 3 years for a master's degree, and has yet to realize his curry smell is not that welcomed as he is at his hometown.FYI, this is not a very hygienic guy either to say at least. His yellow backpack is sweat stained to be practically beige, and his computer is laced with a layer of thick oil and skin sheds -- I should be glad there is no dandruff.So, what are my options to politely let him know that I don't like how he smells, and he needs to take actions? Since he will be here for the next 3 years, I hate to be that jerk that sounds racist.BTW, this is the exact reason why I didn't use my office back when I was in the US -- the other two postdocs in the office are Indian and Pakistani, and I smell like curry after a day at work.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 02:42:36 pm
content: Hah! When I first moved to Switzerland at age 12, the first year of school here was in the special "integration" class (in which the kids are given very, very individualized work). For a kid like me (from USA), it really served mostly to learn German. But there were some Pakistani siblings in my class, and not only did they have to learn the language and (especially with the girl, who'd never been to school before at all) catch up academically, but they also had to be taught European customs, and in their case thatexpresslyincluded teaching them that in this culture, people bathe frequently and find BO objectionable.So how to deal with it? Pull him aside and explain in a non-accusatory way that "i'm sure you didn't realize this, but your body odor is objectionable in this culture, and may hold you back in your career. The customs here and in much of the world are very different from back in Pakistan, and essentially demand daily showering as well as frequent clothing laundering, such that there is no perceptible smell. I'd be happy to give you some pointers." Chances are he doesn't even realize it causes people offense, and will be mortified to discover it, hence needing to do it with nobody around, and with the tone of concern, rather than anger. See e.g.https://www.peoplehr.com/blog/2015/08/21/office-problems-how-to-tell-a-colleague-they-smell/

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 02:45:37 pm
content: I don’t have an answer I’m afraid, but some years ago I did spend some months sitting opposite an Indian guy who snorted every minute or so, and I just couldn’t concentrate. I had to get up and leave several times a day to calm my frustration. Nowadays I’d put on the Bose noise cancelling earbuds. Thankfully he didn’t make it through probation.I had another Indian guy working for me once who always brought in smelly, often vomit inducing, food from home for both breakfast and lunch, and ate it at his desk next to mine. I just got up and left when he was eating.What I should’ve done was to have a word with HR and have an edict that all hot food should be eaten in the canteen, not at desks/benches, but I didn’t really get on with the HR people, and I was a contractor anyway. Maybe you could have a word with HR for the food thing? It’s about time we had a story about HR doing something useful. After all, one could spin a yarn about the incompatibility of hot food and equipment? Maybe even personal safety, such as contaminating mixing food with flux etc?I don’t know how to deal with an all round 24/7 smelly person, other than to have a word with HR, but I feel your pain and do have a story for you.About twenty odd years ago, a prestigious company I was working for outsourced their IT support to an Indian company, with employees shipped in direct from India on to site. Unfortunately there were some cultural incompatibilties, such as washing their feet in the sinks in the executive washroom, the snorting thing, and an interesting way to sit on a Western toilet which wasn’t at all hygienic. They lasted about three months before it was in sourced again, the upper echelons discovering that maybe it hadn’t been the best idea.

author: pidcon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 03:18:40 pm
content: I would invite him and a few of your friends to dinner or lunch at an Indian/Pakistani restaurant. The more smoky and crowded, the better. After the meal, while walking together to go home or for some other reason, make a remark about your own clothes and how it stinks, then ask your colleague how he is aware of it and how he deals with it. If he responds, then you can safely broach the subject of washing, hygiene, etc. It may not be the solution, but that's my take on it. A bit of diplomacy and tact is essential, since your colleague will be in China for several years.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 03:51:18 pm
content: Does he spit on the floor? He shits on the street, this is pretty common on chinese culture, With time he can learn be patient

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 04:06:29 pm
content: Many people no matter of what culture do not ventilate their homes, almost never open windows or doors , and that causes everything inside the dwelling stink including their clothing which they then wear to work. It is understood that for air conditioning (cooling) in summer and heating in winter windows should be kept closed but you have to once in a while a few times a day let fresh air in. My neighbours next door are OK people but when exit or enter home and swing the entrance door, a cloud of incredible stench of stale air bursts outside and man, does it stink for several meters away.In the office, i can immediately tell who never ventilates their living space, as their clothes has the characteristic smell.

author: bill_c
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 04:26:36 pm
content: Just my opinion, but antiperspirants seem to do better than deoderants.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 04:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on September 06, 2020, 04:06:29 pmThankfully my condo has one of theseOf course you can start the smell warfare by cooking your food with asafoetida and garum.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 04:58:30 pm
content: Quote from: bill_c on September 06, 2020, 04:26:36 pmAbsolutely. If I didn't use antiperspirant,mycoworkers would be asking this question.(In fact, I've found that most antiperspirants just aren't that effective on me. In each country I've lived, it took a while to test which local brands of antiperspirants actually work well on my body.)

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 04:59:28 pm
content: I think a better topic title would be 'Working with a man/woman that stinks'.I don't see the need for mentioning race or country of origin in any of the above posts.Then there would be no doubt that this is not racism.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 05:22:21 pm
content: Ok just my two cents.You can address his personal hygiene if the sweat stinks. Bring it as a colleagial advise, not as an attack or verdict.But understand that many people consume dairy products and those give a special odor to the sweat which deodorants with long (24hr) activity have special ingredients for. AFAIK many people are lactose intolerant (2/3 of the world population miss the lactase-gen needed) and don't consume dairy products like milk, so whole cultures are not accustomed to that smell. Difficult discussion.For the curry smell, I don't think you can or should address this. Some people eat garlic which is also notorious but you can just keep your distance. Eating habits are private matters.I rather woukd ask your boss to give more space between workers desks if you can smell that, a good idea in these corona times anyway.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 05:29:59 pm
content: >> Re: [NOT RACISM] Working with Pakistani that stinksThe title alone is racial. I see no reason to post about it in an electronics forum rather than involving your HR department.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 05:58:04 pm
content: HR needs to hire a few women for this office, at least one or two. That'll fix it.Pretty common problem in 'men only' working environments, nationalities has nothing to do with that (shared proximity with pretty damn stinky Canadians before lol). I agree eastern folks with spices diets do exhibit rather exotic natural fragrances, and I'm cool with that in most cases. Quite different from the smoking chap sporting that 'chemical scent' $0.99 aftershave mixed with antiperspirant enhancements :/ Headache anyone?!

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 06:31:08 pm
content: This isn't bad Higienc, Is really a racial thing, But one monkey sit's on his tail, to talk about others monkeys tail

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 06:35:08 pm
content: I had a colleague/friend who regularly smelled so bad. He genuinely didn't realise. Apparently it was some bacterial infection not easily removed by cleaning. We eventually (as an office) approached him and told him as politely as possible. He was shocked. Next day he came in a brand new wardrobe, and smelled like a new person. Eventually you get accustomed to your own smell and don't notice. He said he appreciated us telling him.I think as long as you raise the issue as politely as possible (perhaps discuss with HR/manager first) then you have done nothing wrong. Who knows, he could be losing out on friends, relationship partners, interviews, etc. because he doesn't realise that he smells bad.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 06:40:36 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on September 06, 2020, 06:31:08 pmYou seem to confuse racial with cultural.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 06:41:29 pm
content: It's not a single individual charcteristic, It's more wide than that

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 07:22:16 pm
content: "You seem to confuse racial with cultural."You are right, cultural thing, sorry

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 07:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on September 06, 2020, 03:45:24 pmYou're so wrong here. It has hell of a lot to do with nationality. From ethnic group perspective genetically. As already mentioned East Asians such as Chinese and Japanese generally don't smell, even if they are not very tidy. But some others can be very smelly, even if they wash themselves often. And from cultural perspective as well.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 07:48:20 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on September 06, 2020, 06:40:36 pmNope, you simply have no idea that different ethnic groups sweat and smell differently.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 08:01:24 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on September 06, 2020, 07:55:47 pmIt has to do with the fact that that guy likely will remain smelly even if he does his hygiene properly. Politically correct guys can go smash their heads against the wall. If you do not mention the thing, it does not go away/cease to exist suddenly.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 08:19:29 pm
content: Once I had a boss with terrible body odor. Everyone at work complaing about it, called him a "stink monster". They gave him hints and even bought him a prank spray can of "stink away" but he did not get it.I kinda liked the boss, so I took him aside and told him it's a problem. Next day, problem gone. I think he just changed deodorants. He appreciated me for telling him, it was not a big deal. So tell the person already.I've been to a family home with lots of curry cooking (Fijian) and the kitchen walls were literally covered in a layer of curry and cooking oil. I wasn't used to it, but they are. The whole house stunk pretty bad. But complaining about it was like saying the mom cook was stinky or something, so they thought I was being a jerk.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 09:21:19 pm
content: You could give him a present - some deoderant and soap.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 09:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 06, 2020, 07:45:33 pmI agree, mentioning nationality adds context and allows to take into account how the other person is accustomed to living, the food he may bring, the culture he's from.Why do people keep complaining about the title () instead of providing advice how to talk to the guy in question in the most polite manner.Personally i think this will be like having "the talk" with your parents (super awkward) but you only have to do it once, hopefully. Maybe you can start with "other coworkers have asked me if i could talk to you about your body odor" something like that. Maybe then add "i've also noticed it sometimes". I think the first impression will be important to not appear rude but concerned, you do want to help the guy out after all. And to do this away from other people, the last thing you want is to turn this into public shaming.He may not smell it for the same reason we don't see our nose and don't taste our tongue, and don't smell the inside of our lungs everytime we breathe out through our nose. Your brain tunes all that out to not interfere with the important stuff.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 09:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on September 06, 2020, 09:21:19 pmOooohh that's pure evil. Reminds me of that time i was trying to grow a beard and my aunt gifted me a set of razor blades.Now that the whole 'rona thing is going on i can at least cover it up with the mask. I mean you won't know if you don't try, right.

author: winniethepooh_icu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 06:06:47 am
content: +1 to politely explaing the issue to him and offer advice on how to resolve it. This problem is quite common with pakistani who grew up there and I have found that they are very hard to offend. You could probably be rude about it and not offend him in a permanent manner.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 06:11:29 am
content: Quote from: CJay on September 06, 2020, 07:55:47 pmYes, this is ridiculous, thread locked.