Please recommend a microscope for up close PCB work $200 +/- $50 or so... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 03:42:17 pm
content: Please recommend a microscope for up close PCB work $200 +/- $50 or so...ALSO, 2nd question, are ratings like 5X and 10X not specific? I have an optivisor that is 5X and 10X and the 10X optivisor seems weaker in magnification than a radio shack 5X-10X-15X loop on 5X. Does that make any sense?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:12:22 pm
content: Inspection? Assembly? Rework? On the bench or inside equipment?Does it have to be a microscope, or are there other tools that will satisfy your needs?It is a very personal choice, but after having tried (hint, hint) various microscopes and illuminated lenses, my preference is something likehttp://www.maplin.co.uk/p/rolson-2-led-12x-18x-25x-and-35x-magnifying-visor-n70fk

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:17:07 pm
content: Inspection yes/Assembly if it is better than the optivisor I use now. On Bench.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 03:42:17 pmMaginification rating for low end magnifier glasses are arbitrary in my experience.As for microscope, check ebay, there are many good and cheap new Chineese microscopes such as from Amscope.Things to look* Stereo* Light (it's a must)* Zoom is handy.* Magnification range. For PCB you want to have good low end, 7X or even 4X. They high range is less critical IMO.* Flat and wide base (nice to have a boom stand because it allows you to use your ESD matt as a surface)* Camera port, in case you also want to take pictures or videos.Some people have strict requirements for working distance (surface to objective lens or light ring) but a simple Amscope works great for me. You can latter increase the working distance (and the eyepiece height) by adding a barrlow lens.I am very happy with this one (I don't have the camera port, that black tube at the top):http://www.ebay.com/itm/7X-45X-Stereo-Trinocular-Microscope-With-14-Pillar-Stand-64-LED-Ring-Light-/141603466209

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:24:38 pm
content: The problem with "traditional" looking microscope is it only works if your PCBs are small and tiny. Otherwise, that column post will interfere with the board preventing you from looking at the center area of a big board.

author: andy2000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:46:32 pm
content: I have an old Bausch & Lomb Stereo Zoom 4 on my bench. It does continuous zoom from 7x-30x which I find great for fine SMD soldering, PCB foil repairs, and inspection for small defects. There are various lighting options, but I use an attached circular fluorescent that surrounds the lens. I'd probably go with an LED if I were replacing it.I have it attached to a boom arm that's clamped to the left corner of my work bench, so I can swing it in front of me when I need it, and out of the way when I don't. The arm is about 17" long, so it provides plenty of clearance for large circuit boards. There's more than 3" of clearance between the object and the lens, and it provides about 1" diameter view at 7x. I do have a lens that cuts the magnification to 1/2, but I've never really used it.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 05:01:25 pm
content: If you're in the US, consider the long time industry standard work horse, Bausch & Lomb stereo zoom. There were a pile of these made over the decades and can be had in good used condition for $200 or less. These are proven durable, reliable, serviceable and optically reasonable.Alternatives would be good used Nikon, Olympus, Genuine Meiji.The best IMO are made by Wild Heerbrugg, Zeiss and specific Nikon, Olympus offerings.I'm not a fan of low cost made in China microscopes, They have significant optical distortion, flimsy mechanical and overall designs that are specifically intended to be cheap.Might want to read this before purchase:http://www.absoluteclarity.com/buy-and-avoid.htmlBernice

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 07:35:18 pm
content: What is the deal with the lenses, which ones do you want for SMD soldering/inspection:barlow 0.5xbarlow 2x20x eyepieceif a trino is roughly the same price, is there a disadvantage to it?how far above the work can you have the scope?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 12, 2015, 04:17:14 pmThis is $50 over OP specificationie $300 vs $250

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:07:22 pm
content: I just bought a stereo microscope. Hasn't arrived yet. I was using a visor to solder (even for big stuff). I started looking at the Amscope SE line, but I am pretty sure they have a fixed magnification and don't allow a barlow lens to reduce the power. I tried to pickup a used Bausch and Lomb stereo zoom. They are all over Ebay at very good prices, but it's hard to ensure you're not getting a worn out lemon with the seals all dried out. Then I'd need to get lighting and a boom arm as most come with a fixed mount. Finally I bit the bullet and bought an Omano OM2300S with a dual boom and trinocular head. I added a 144 LED light and a barlow lens so it will zoom from 3.5X to 45X. I didn't get a camera yet, but will probably order something that I can use to adapt a Canon digital to it. Cost was way over the amount you specified.To meet your price goal the Bausch and Lomb stereo zoom makes the most sense. If I could have found one with all the right pieces I would have bought it.I'll let you know how the Omano is when it gets here.Fat

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:15:28 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 07:35:18 pmA Barlow sits at the bottom of the head. A 0.5X halves the magnification but doubles the working distance, typically from 90mm to 180mm. It also doubles the viewing area.Using a 2X is rarely beneficial with electronics, you'll end up with a great view of a single small IC but no room to get a soldering iron near it.10X eyepieces are probably best for electronics, I've never wanted more than about 20X magnification total, and most heads will manage 4X, which with 10X from eyepieces and 0.5X from the barlow then that's achievable. Should you need more then just remove the Barlow.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:21:27 pm
content: Is it worth adding to the budget a bit to get something like this:http://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SM-3BX-80S-Professional-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B004U4ADZ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447359616&sr=8-1&keywords=amscope+sm-3bx-80sIt has the light, it has the barlow 0.5x. Would this be good for soldering and inspection?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:39:43 pm
content: How about something like this - it is less than $250http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reichert-569-7x-30x-Stereo-Star-Zoom-Microscope-WF10x-Eyepieces-Boom-Stand-/390816039476?hash=item5afe738234:g:tjYAAMXQyY1TRATnI searched on "used stereo zoom microscope boom"I do not know ReichertChoices get better with bigger budgetThen of course you have the problem of lightbut I think rigging up lights is not too hardIf I was buying today I would get this - I think it is from an electronics lab because it is missing the AC cordand comes with a DOA warranty:http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Technical-Instrument-650879-Lab-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-Boom-Stand-/131648731678?hash=item1ea6e03a1e:g:YysAAOSwQoFWQVpo

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:43:09 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 12, 2015, 08:39:43 pmThat second one may have zoom in the title, but I don't think it has any zoom

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:51:52 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 08:21:27 pmIt's a nice one. If your budget is tight, you can leave out the barlow lens for latter, in case you will need it (I don't), or if you will prefer a X0.7 one.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 08:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 12, 2015, 08:51:52 pmHow is it for soldering boards? Do you have to move the board around or the scope around to focus much? I am used to using a 5X or 10X optivisor now. Does the barlow give you maginification without having to get as close as you would without it? I have to get pretty close with the 10X optivisor...My concern is will it be a pain not having it on my head moving around automatically like I am used to...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 09:40:35 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 08:59:26 pmI am using optivisor for normal electronics works and the microscope for delicate and soldering and inspection. I move the board around, not the microscope. The Barlow will increase the distance from the board to the length by its factor (e.g 0.7 will increase the distance times 1/0.7). This will raise the entire head including the eyepieces by that distance. I am using a neutral x1 Barlow to protect the lens from the fumes, not sure if it really matters.Going from optivisor to a microscope you will be able to see what's really going on. Huge difference IMO.I am using a boomless microscope and stow it away when not using. Less clutter on my multi purpose desk this way.Edit: this is my third cheap eBay Chinese microscope. Also got two in two workplaces and was very happy with all of them.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 10:06:20 pm
content: What about one without the boom mount - I don't have a lot of room on my table, would something like this still allow for soldering and inspection:http://www.amscope.com/7x-45x-stereo-inspection-microscope-with-super-large-stand.html

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 10:24:47 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 10:06:20 pmThat's a very good base, thinner and larger area than mine.Don't forget the light ring. It's very dark without it.

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 11:12:56 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 08:21:27 pmThat one would work well. Looking at the recommendations and reviews around the internet, most people are feel like the single boom models can tip easily. That's why I went with a double boom. If you are not going to do pictures this head should work well. If you want pictures then you'll want a trinocular.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 02:57:03 am
content: The boom style I think is just too big for my desk.I ordered a SM-1BX from Amazon - they told me they would issue a no charge return shipping tag if I didn't like it, so we'll see when it gets here.http://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-stereo-inspection-microscope-with-super-large-stand.html

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 06:05:35 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 02:57:03 amNice choice!

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 06:25:19 pm
content: Thanks; I'm looking forward to it arriving. I got it for $329 plus the AmScope LED-56S 56 LED Microscope Ring Light with Dimmer for $36.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 06:36:19 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 06:25:19 pm$200 or so = $365

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 06:46:05 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 06:25:19 pmI know... I know...

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 07:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 13, 2015, 06:36:19 pmMan maths for the win

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 07:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 02:57:03 amGood choice. It's a big step forward. Tell us how you like it with and without the Barlow (it's removable)

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 08:50:02 pm
content: What is the difference between magnification at the barlow vs. the eyepieces?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 10:43:57 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 13, 2015, 08:50:02 pmThe eyepieces won't gain any resolution

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 03:43:39 am
content: Quote from: KJDS on November 13, 2015, 07:00:39 pmYeah, $350 planned = $700 with the attachments and options. Kind of blew the budget this month.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 04:34:33 am
content: Amscope focus rack and pivot arm block:These are the innards of the Amscope focus rack. The Body appears to be made of cast zinc or extremely soft aluminum. The screws are of low quality soft steel. Rack, dove tail fit is poor with the appearance and "feel" hidden by high viscosity lubricant. There is no rack adjustment for friction or fit to allow for proper precision adjustment. The pinion gear axle fit is poor with cheap plastic knobs on both ends.The focus rack to microscope body mount used two M4 screws, just large enough to support the weigh of the microscope body with little to no margin.The focus block angle adjustment stop consist of a flimsy brass sleeve with a taper on both ends and a slit. The two cones are jammed against each other to expand the flimsy sleeve on a soft aluminum tapered axle and end screw resulting in friction to prevent the entire microscope and focus rack assembly from moving. The amount force required caused the original soft aluminum tapered screw to fail. It was replaced with a M6 stainless steel socket head cap screw.This is a utterly flimsy design made of very low quality parts with poor tolerances.These are the details that are not often seen. While made in China microscope are low cost new, come with a warranty, they are no different than the numerous other completely throw away techno items made in China or other parts of Asia.Does it work-function, yes to a point. Will it last, be serviceable or offer a precision user experience, no.Better to spend the same amount of funds on a good used and proper quality microscope. Beyond superior design, quality of build, user satisfaction, high quality microscopes hold their market value if it is to be re-sold.Bernice

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 04:56:09 am
content: Magnification is one of the easiest optical design parameters to achieve. The far more difficult optical parameters to achieve is contrast, distortion, resolution, color correction, image depth, depth of focus and precise optical balance between the two optical paths.Beyond these optical design parameters, there are mechanical precision, stability, ability to be tailored to a specific user, ergonomics, durability and serviceability.These are just a few of the more specific parameters and considerations that make the difference between a high quality microscope (Zeiss, Wild, Olympus, Nikon and similar) vs low quality made in China-Asia.BerniceQuote from: KJDS on November 13, 2015, 10:43:57 pm

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 05:56:24 am
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 14, 2015, 04:34:33 amMy AmScope works great for me. Had same experience with two other cheapo eBay new microscopes in the past (don't remember what brand). I can see very clearly and solder 0402 with no problem whatsoever.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 06:25:34 am
content: 0402 = 1mm x 0.5mm parts can be soldered and worked on using a 2x to 3x magnifying lamp which is lower cost than a microscope with a wider field of view. There will be significant optical distortion and related problems. This remains a very viable low cost solution to working on small parts.Judgement of quality and such depends on an individuals point of reference. What could be great for one could be utterly un-acceptable for another. Point of the previous post was to present a deeper understading of the actual contents, design and details related to how these low cost stereo microscope are actually made, designed and produced along with their baked in problems.It is completely dependent on the user to accept or reject anything presented. One can appreciated the deeper understanding of why this microscope stuff matters, or simply tolerate what one has been using and be completely satisfied with ownership. Both are absolutely acceptable for any given individual.Living and working under a microscope for hours each day and the resulting eye strain, eye fatigue and other physical-mental stress is strongly affected by microscope quality and ergonomics. Appreciation of this like many things comes with experience and growth of microscope performance expectations.Bernice

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 01:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 14, 2015, 06:25:34 amLike any other tool, a microscope should fit the requirements of the job. A blanket statement to the affect of cheap Chinese microscope are not good enough assume that all use cases are the most demanding. This is not the case just the same as not all of us require 7 digits DMMs or 1GHz bandwidth oscilloscopes. It's not about the tools but what you build with them.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 05:56:55 pm
content: Blanket statement of made in China-Asia optical instruments is actually true and honest, but it is a relative judgement dependent on points of reference, knowledge, expertise and more. But, there are absolutes, materials used in construction, optical design and quality of manufacture, optical performance, mechanical performance and numerous other more subtle aspects such as feel-smoothness of the controls, serviceability, service life.. High quality optical instruments such as microscopes are enduring items of technology un-like disposable consumer electronics and similar commodity consumable items.One definition of Quality = meeting user expectations, no?This discussion began as a discussion of a stereo microscope for $200, ended up at a new stereo microscope over $300, no?Once over $300, there is on ebay many excellent used stereo microscopes available that are no made in China that can be an excellent alternative to new. Even at under $200, this holds true. Just one example, Zeiss Stereo zoom, complete with illuminator, stand for $180http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEISS-STEREO-ZOOM-MICROSCOPE-INCL-ORIGINAL-ZEISS-ILLUMINATOR-10X-LENS-/371467719780?hash=item567d339464%3Ag%3AoHAAAOSwo6lWJYaZ&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557OK, it might need service, it might not, what matters more is it CAN be serviced and the optical, mechanical and related quality is absolutely superior to anything in the price range from China-Asia. If buyer does not like it, return it. This is not the only example, ebay search will reveal what specific microscopes have sold for, it gives an idea of what microscopes are worth.Wild M3Z for under $500:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wild-M3Z-Stereo-Zoom-Microscope-/331691926781?hash=item4d3a6124fd%3Ag%3A4NcAAOSwT5tWLjYj&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Classic Bausch & Lomb stereo zoom for less than $150:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bausch-Lomb-Stereo-Microscope-/231733946333?hash=item35f46b67dd%3Ag%3A%7EesAAOSwI-BWMDsg&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Olympus stereo zoom. $150:http://www.ebay.com/itm/olympus-stereo-zoom-microscope-great-working-condition-/321857855117?hash=item4af0391e8d%3Ag%3AvUwAAOSwjVVV07j2&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Nikon Stereo zoom, seller refurb $250:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-/181913072645?hash=item2a5add3405%3Ag%3A1TkAAOSwuTxV-Zgm&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557As for using a magnifier lamp, this is another alternative to a stereo microscope, it is lower cost, might be optically acceptable for the work required. SMD electronics work usually does not require more than 10x magnification which is just not that difficult to achieve but getting all the details proper is extremely difficult. Where optical and mechanical design and overall performance become more apparent is when high overall microscope performance is expected at the higher magnifications. This is where the differences become more apparent.Variable focal length (zoom) microscopes as a group are more of a optical challenge to design and build to a high standard. It is easier to achieve high optical and mechanical performance by using fixed magnification optics that can be changed (drum, slider or similar).This is much about awareness of microscopes are available and what the possible alternatives can be rather than just purchasing low cost new as a reflex.BerniceQuote from: zapta on November 14, 2015, 01:18:35 pm

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 06:19:30 pm
content: Rupunzell, thanks for the information. I would probably wouldn't get any of the used microscopes you mentioned, for various reasons, though you seems to have a lot of insight but I am sure it will be useful for other people with different preferences than mine.Discounting buying choices different than yours as 'reflex' is unfair in my opinion.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 06:48:31 pm
content: Not a matter of fairness, it is more a matter of awareness and being wise, knowledgeable, informed with one's resources.Putting forth awareness, knowledge, experience and honest evaluation based in actual experience is what, not fair?Buyers make their choices based on many factors. One of the factor is security and fear. Buying new does offer some sense of security due to "new", "Warranty" and can be returned. Buying used is a lot more complex with more variables.Yes, I do know something about microscopes. Been using them for decades and collect them. This does drive my preferences and more, which can be easily looked upon as being an elitist in every way. Those sold ebay examples are very real and what they represent as good value and alternatives is equally real. How is that not fair?I'm not pontificating that microscope seekers should drop thousands of USD on a Zeiss SV11http://www.kochi-core.jp/images/institution/microscope_img_2.jpgLeica M205C (about $20,000 USD)http://www.leica-microsystems.com/typo3temp/pics/M205C_TL5000_17_dc0c7dccd7.jpgor similar, this is about alternatives to new made in China-Asia that are within the budget posted of $200 +/- with honest long term value.BerniceQuote from: zapta on November 14, 2015, 06:19:30 pm

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 07:39:00 pm
content: QuoteIn addition to what's been said about the resolution:A barlow lens goes between what you're looking at and the primary objective. This is like holding a magnifying glass (or demagnifying glass) between the work and the microscope. So this changes the focal distance between the microscope and the work. A 0.5X barlow will double the working space between objective and lens. A 2x barlow will half it.The eyepiece is like a lens that magnifies what's on the objective. Changing magnification will increase/decrease the focal distance between the eye and the objective, which results in different lengths of eyepieces.A 0.5X barlow will increase maximum FOV by two by doubling the area of light that enters the primary lens. The size of the picture you see is the same. At any given magnification, FOV is the same. But you can go down to a new, lower magnification, that will have half the magnification and double the FOV.Reducing eyepiece magnification does not necessarily increase FOV. The eyepiece is like a lens focusing on the picture on the objective. You can always go up in eyepiece magnification to view a smaller slice of that picture, increasing magnification. But going down on the eyepiece magnification can't increase the size of the available picture. The aperture of the scope is fixed. At some point, going down on eyepiece magnification will result in a smaller picture. You will be seeing the entire picture the objective can capture and more (which is just the outer ring of your viewing area being blacked out and/or distorted). So there is a hard limit where FOV cannot be further increased with the eyepiece.So depending on your working height, magnification, and resolution needs you may want to adjust with barlow or eyepiece.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 07:44:29 pm
content: I've bought several of thesevariscope unitsand they have done well for me. The lamp is crap but I modded mine to take an LED bulb and built a little dimmer that uses the built-in transformer for the supply.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 09:22:17 pm
content: Since this fits under OPs "or so" he should have gotten thisLeica M205C (about $20,000 USD)http://www.leica-microsystems.com/typo3temp/pics/M205C_TL5000_17_dc0c7dccd7.jpgThis has been an educational topic. I really liked that Nikon with a solid steel bar. Learned what a Barlow does. Learned about Chinese scopes and heavy grease. And about used quality scopesFunny the Wild M3Z was from China but I guess not made there.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 09:26:45 pm
content: I have an American Optics 570 from the 1970s, used it to solder wire to QFN packages without issue. Quality optics, still used by jewelers - regarded as bulletproof and hq. 570,with 10x eye piece, is continuous zoom 7x to 42 x. The head unit is removable and can be fitted to a boom. You can find the head units used for 100-150 USD. Or you can buy with a base and detach the z-axis and do what this person didhttp://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6207

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 10:09:18 pm
content: What is this microscope used for ? It would make a nice tear down:http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-TECH-W-BAUCH-LOMB-STEREO-MICROSCOPE-HEAD-USLE-ENGINEERING-LAB-CASCADE-/400888176360?hash=item5d56cc1ee8:g:1NIAAOSwBLlVC0fh

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 10:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 14, 2015, 10:09:18 pmWafer inspection

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 11:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: ChunkyPastaSauce on November 14, 2015, 10:36:12 pmHa now what kind of wafers ? Nabisco or Intel ?

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2015, 11:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 14, 2015, 05:56:24 amSame here. I don't really give a crap about anything except the optics, and the optics in my AmScope are actually superb. (10x20 widefield eyepieces, 0.7-4.5x zoom trinocular model with 0.5x Barlow,about $1K.)The most important feature on the model I have is really the boom arm. Anything with a fixed stage isn't really suitable for SMD inspection, IMHO, because you need to be able to move the board around and look at it from various angles. A combination of 8" working distance, a bright LED ring light, and an arm you can swing away from the bench entirely will show you more than the high-$ fixed models will.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 12:18:18 am
content: 20 years ago I ran a neurobiology teaching lab and was lucky enough to use a brand new $10K+ (at the time), top of the line Nikon scope for teaching demonstrations and producing instructional videos. Every scope I've used since has been a disappointment.Microscopes are like many tools. If you've never used a really high quality one you'll not know what you're missing. Just like there are people perfectly happy with their $40 Radio Shack soldering iron, there will be many people perfectly happy with a $300 Amscope having never used a top end scope.I understand the allure of the Amscopes. For the money the optics are probably passable but their big value for electronics on a budget is the availability of a boom stand for a low cost.But as Bernice rightly points out - the low quality of the materials will exact a price over time and the optics don't compare to the higher end scopes.Also, it's not easy to buy a used, higher quality scope if you don't know what you're looking for and you're taking a chance with the condition of the lenses which may have been abused.If you do know what to look for and are patient , ebay can provide a high quality scope for a low price. I found a Unitron ZSB series scope for $200 in excellent shape a few years ago. It will likely last a lifetime of my admittedly modest use.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 02:35:44 am
content: Bernice, you said that you collect microscopes, any interesting pics?

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 06:47:41 am
content: More than a few entry level stereo zoom microscopes marketed by Leica Micro Systems and others are re-branded made in China. These often have a notorious market reputation for being plastic wonders that fail then not being repairable. This happened when Leica-Leitz-Wild became Leica Microsystems after being taken over by Danaher. What occurred post take over is much the same as Tektronix, Fluke and moreWild Heerbrugg was a Swiss based company (Founder worked at Zeiss, Germany) that made numerous precision optical instruments.http://www.wild-heerbrugg.com/products.htmLater in their product offering after their M11, M20, M40 microscopes (all now collectable) Wild introduced the M5 (1958), their first Stereo microscope. Leica-Leitz in Germany also made stereo microscopes, but it was not their specialty or strength. In time the Leitz family decided to sell the company to Wild Heerbrugg. Since Leitz-Leica was a well known brand in the high quality microscope world, Wild changed the name of their offering to Leica as it had a better brand identity in the market place. These are the same high quality Wild microscopes, completely interchangeable (except for M5 & M5A), different color, slightly repackaged for appearance. As more time passed, Leica-Wild got owned by Danaher resulting in the awful downward spiral, production in China and ... It is notable that one of the Leica-Wild stereo zoom designs was sent to China for possible production. At the time Leica decided no, but the design remained in China's hand.. which resulted in China companies producing and marketing this left over design.There is a world of microscope collectors today that can bring surprising market values. High quality microscopes are not the same in any way as commodity-consumer electronic widgets, they designed to the limits of optical physics, available glass types, production methods, extreme degree of mechanical precision, durability and serviceability. One recent example is this Wild Heerbrugg M5 on ebay that sold for $2,500 USD:http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILD-HEERBRUGG-VINTAGE-M5-STEREO-MICROSCOPE-52141-ALL-ORIGINAL-PARTS-SEE-DESCR-/281837124649?hash=item419ecd3c29%3Ag%3AyMQAAOSwEetV8D2T&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557In the early 1890's, American Horatio S. Greenough convinced Zeiss Jena to produce his design for a stereo microscope. This is Zeiss's history of producing stereo microscopes and they never stopped innovating it. Today, Zeiss (OPMI) pretty much owns the high dollar, state of the art surgical microscope market that Swiss based Wild-Leica once shared. Leica Microsystems under Danaher has not done nearly as well in the medical-surgical microscope market. Zeiss currently is the best of what is technologically possible. Their optics are absolutely superb, mechanical design outstanding and much more. These surgical microscopes easily cost six figures of USD.http://www.zeiss.com/meditec/en_us/products---solutions.htmlIt is extremely difficult for novice-beginning-modest microscope users to understand the real world differences between high quality microscopes and low cost-acceptable quality mass market-mass production microscopes. Unless the user has significant experience and exposure to these high quality optical instruments and fully understand what makes them worth their cost, microscope users do not have or could ever have good point of reference. The world and field of microscopy is as complex and similar to getting the very most out of an specific item of test gear. The initial use is mostly easy and simple, once the imaging needs becomes more complex, then it grows in complexity with optics, lighting, precision mechanics and moreThere are many, many good used high quality microscopes on ebay today in much the same way as test gear. Difference here, more than a few of these optical instruments have significant market value and these do not depreciated in the same way as test gear. Great deals can be had on ebay and else where, one must be astute, knowledgeable and willing to invest more than $200 - $300 USD and maybe some service cost by a properly and highly qualified microscope technician (finding one is like finding a good doctor or auto mechanic).As for some microscope pix, I'll share three. My preference is for Swiss made Wild Heerbrugg over Zeiss. It has to do with optical performance, mechanical precision, serviceability (the microscope service guy also preferred these Wild microscopes too) and ...This is a M8 on a Wild M400 series stand, bottom plate is added as required. It is one of two, the other M8 has a ergo head from a Wild M650-M690 surgical microscope. Many of the components are interchangeable. Lighting is a Volpi fiber optic ring light. The Volpi light source has been modified from 150 watt halogen to 30 watt color corrected white LED.One of three Wild M7A (A= apochromatic correction). This is on a swiveling boom stand with a Bausch & Lomb focusing rack assembly. This allows quick switch over to a B&L stereo zoom and it has a light port built in. The inline microscope head of this M7A does well for side-ish view. Switching over to the B&L allows a direct over the top view. It also has a Volpi fiber optic ring light that works with the modified Volpi light source. Some of the German made screw drivers and Swiss, Sweden, USA made pliers are visible at the bottom.Wild M5A ( A=apochromatic correction)This one is on a transmitted light stand with bright field-dark field and fittings for collimated reflected light source arms. It has a photo tube to allow attachment of a camera. Magnification is stepped (body is 6x, 12X, 25X, 50X) not continuously variable zoom which was traded off for higher optical correction and larger field of view.The photo tube has a dual iris to control transmitted light and a control for the light path diverted prism which sends the image up to the camera system. Activating the camera system does not blank the eye piece images, it does reduce the amount of light transmitted to the eye pieces.The others are not lower magnification stereo microscopes, they are more specific to various microscope imaging needs.All of these microscopes are an absolute joy to use and own.Here are some of Professor Arne Cröll microscope images of semiconductor crystals:http://www.arnecroell.com/p457195038So now you know...Bernice

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 10:18:12 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 12, 2015, 03:42:17 pmAnd this is related to Test Equipment in what way so that this could not have gone into the "Other Equipment & Products" sub-forum where topics like these should actually go?This forum is divided into topics for a reason...

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:12:59 pm
content: Quotethanks

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:45:25 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 15, 2015, 06:47:41 amThanks for the info. Intetesting.Do you know Askania brand microscopes? I caught one GSZ model from eBay and it feels like a quality unit.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 09:06:53 am
content: Another way to support a stereo microscope with good flexibility, folds mostly out of the way when not used.The Articulated microscope arm:Microscope is a Wild M7A with a Leica M690 surgical microscope ergo head. The ergo head drops the eye piece height relative to the working height of the microscope body allowing better ergonomics for the user with increasing microscope to specimen distance. This coupled with the articulating arm allows easy and stable enough (OK up to about 10X, greater magnification increased sensitivity to vibrations. This is where a stable, rigid stand does far better than an arm mount). Volpi fiber optic ring light and Volpi light source.BerniceQuote from: KE5FX on November 14, 2015, 11:35:58 pm

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 09:16:31 am
content: Like this one?http://www.askania.de/data/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=8Looks like an early Zeiss Stemi SR before Zeiss updated the design. It is possible Askania purchased or licensed this design from Zeiss... or it could be a copy.http://spectraservices2.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/zeiss-stemi-SR-L.jpgNever know of them before this.BerniceQuote from: plazma on November 15, 2015, 09:45:25 pm

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 09:52:07 am
content: Good stuff Bernice!Here's a website with some good info for those looking for a good used stereo microscope:Stereo Microscopes to Buy and to AvoidEvaluating Your Stereo Microscope

author: vector31337
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 11:37:57 am
content: I'm pretty happy with this lifecam studio hd webcam mod I got the cam on eBay for 26 dollars and the lens on diyhk website for around 40 dollars. For less than 75 bucks nothing I've seen even come close

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 03:47:38 pm
content: Can't complain too much for $75, but I wouldn't find it very pleasant to work with that particular setup.Now, that M7A with the Leica head, on the other hand...

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2015, 06:14:12 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 14, 2015, 07:39:00 pmOk, so if I am following all of this. Let's say I decide this microscope works pretty good for what I'm doing, but I'd like more magnification out of it for other tasks (not necessarily soldering where I need room). Let's say you have no barlow installed and you have a choice - 2X barlow or going from 10X eyepieces to 20X eyepieces. Both will accomplish the same magnification, right?Since the 0.5X barlow brought in more light, more resolution, more working distance, would the 2X barlow bring in less light, less resolution, and less working distance? Would using the eyepieces to increase magnification instead be a better choice?

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 03:48:10 am
content: D.O. Industries / Navitar makes macro zoom objectives that can be installed on various optical imaging devices such as digital cameras, video cameras and .... These appear on ebay often as they are used in machine vision and industrial inspection systems. Some of these appear with a fiber optic illumination system built in with the light input end as terminated fiber optic cable, example:*image circle of these objectives vary depending on lens mount and specific lens. Prices vary from less than 50 USD to few hundred USD.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Navitar-Zoom-lens-with-fiber-cable-/331633624193?hash=item4d36e78481%3Ag%3AIvkAAOSwPcVV1iSy&nma=true&si=9Irds87gOtFgrp0HHYn8x60XRdo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Bernice

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 04:09:16 am
content: Example image made using the Wild M5A set at 6X, via photo tube, relay lens and mirror less digital camera, Volpi fiber optic ring light with modified Volpi white LED light source (tweaked for color temperature). Total magnification is about 10X.There is SIGNIFICANT image degradation in this image due to:*Performance of the relay lens, it is a single achromatic lens intended for a low resolution CCD video camera.*Platform for this LH0032 is NOT flat or as level as it could be. This results in some areas of the image being in focus and others sort of focused and some are mostly out of focus. Depth of focus can be some what adjusted by using the adjustable iris built into the Wild photo tube. The area of focus is in the center of this image field.*Digital camera, image file and issues due to the digital image process.*The image via eyepieces is MUCH improved over this digital web image.Things to notice and consider:*Color balance. The white alumina substrate should be white-white with no color cast or tint of any other colors. This also applies to the black areas.*Contrast ratios, and contrast gradation across the entire image field.*Geometric distortion. Edges across the entire field must be straight, free of any distortion. Rectangular dies must have parallel edges. Round objects should be round, not oval or any other non-circular shape.*Resolution. Fine line details, texture of the silicon dies, alumina substrate, bond wires, metal can, leads where the bond wires connect and everything else in this image.The virtue and reason why a stereo microscope is used, convey depth perception. Good stereo microscopes are an seamless extension of having two eyes. This is why high quality stereo microscopes facilities working on small objects with great precision possible.Bernice

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 07:15:47 am
content: QuoteNo, the 0.5X barlow doesn't bring in more light per viewing area. It focuses over a larger area, so that light/resolution is actually LESS when looking at a giving magnification, compared to before. Going down in magnification, everything is reversed. If you use your microscope at 20X magnification, then put in a 0.5X barlow and adjust til you get 20X magnification, you are getting less light/resolution as before. Of all that light that was captured, you're only looking a 1% of it, now, rather than the 2% you were looking at without the barlow.For the direction you are interested in going, which is increasing the magnification, the 2x barlow will effectively increase your resolution when looking at the same magnification as before the addition. You will be collecting a smaller area of interest to send through the aperture of the microscope, instead of flooding it with stuff you are going to cut out when you zoom in, anyway. Increasing magnification on the eyepiece will effectively decrease your resolution when looking at the same magnification as before, because you're looking at half the picture blown up.I'm not using proper microscope terminology, BTW.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 07:22:23 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on November 14, 2015, 11:35:58 pmYeah, very happy with my AmScope - the optics are excellent, especially given the price. The weakness is the size of the exit pupil, meaning you have to straight through it and look around by moving the board underneath it. Can't move eyes or it goes black as the eye gets outside the exit pupil. I have the simple CFL light which is more than plenty for 5X but borderline for 15X. It's fine for occasional checking of something at 15X, but I wouldn't want to use it at that magnification for any extended time. But 5X really is perfect for SMD work for me. I wear glasses also. When not in use I swing it off to the side where it kind of folds up. It's just a single bar boom, but no complaint regarding shake or instability - this thing is rock solid. I think the entire scope kit cost $329.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 07:45:20 am
content: If this is a poll, I'm thrilled with my Amscope, too.I had some initial doubts, due to the size and weight. But once I rearranged my bench around it, it has proven to be one of my best buys.Let me put it this way. If it started to fall apart and I had to replace it every 2 years, I would still be happy. $275.00 a year, sign me up. If this is the best it ever got, it would be a bargain. If I could buy a better microscope that would last longer and work out cheaper, that would be fine, too. But I'll never regret the dough spent on this scope.Seeing as how I take care of things, I might be better off with a cheaper scope. I stopped using the cover after a few weeks.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 10:55:11 am
content: Amazon has many AmScope products and the reviews for vast majority of them is 4 or 5 stars. Very high satisfaction level in general.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 11:31:52 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 18, 2015, 10:55:11 amFor most general purpose use they are fine, treat them delicately and they won't fall apart and whilst the optics are a long way short of the big four, for electronics use they are sufficient.Having said that, I'd far rather have something from the big four second hand, but I've got pretty good at servicing them and don't mind taking a gamble on a second hand item. I suspect that for most people on here that just want to be able to solder and inspect 0402 and similar for short periods of time, then the Amscopes are more than adequate.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2015, 08:07:36 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on November 18, 2015, 11:31:52 amIt's worth noting that I spend very little time populating boards. I spend far more time designing them in the first place, then measuring and verifying them after assembly, and working on the software. The latter is easily where 90% of the effort goes. No microscope needed or even desired for those things. I do however think it's a necessity for SMD and I personally like SMD designs much better than PTH, and even though they're somewhat more demanding to populate the end results justify the effort. Just soldering on the components is really a rather small task.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 12:55:35 am
content: Scope finally arrived after Amazon drug their feet all week on shipping it.It feels solid and the optic quality seems good - I don't have a lot to compare to. The light ring I ordered is bright enough.With the 0.5x barlow in place, distance from the bottom of the light ring adapter is 5.96" when focused so you can zoom in all the way. While I like the field of view, it puts the scope so high that my regular chair does not work for me. Even if I change chairs to something taller, it just feels high, almost like my head is too high compared to where the iron/work is.If I remove the barlow, distance from the bottom of the light ring adapter is 3.64" (2.32" lower). This is actually now a bit low, even for my regular chair. The field of view is not as good and 7X for the minimum zoom is higher than I'd like.So, I'm thinking of trying the 0.7X barlow. I'm estimating it might be 5.03" or 0.93" lower than the 0.5x. Trying this position seems fine in my regular chair. It won't be as low as 3.5X, but 4.9X.When I bought this I was thinking it would replace using my optivisor and I'd use it for all soldering, but now I am wondering if it would be better for soldering smaller packages when I need it and for inspection. The stand is nice and I can easily swing it 90 degrees left so it is out of the way. Having to adjust the board position instead of just moving my head also seems to take more time, but perhaps I just have to get used to it.It almost seems like the magnification is too much. They have a 0.3x barlow which would allow you to go down to 2.1X, but how high would that have to be! Am I missing something about the height?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 01:16:35 am
content: If your stand has the ability, tilt the scope down/away. So it points at a slight forward angle instead of straight up/down. Then put the Barlow back in. This will bring the eyepieces down quite a bit and give a better viewing angle for your height.QuoteIf you're happy with the visor, then get rid of the scope, pronto. As soon as you start using it, you may become addicted. I can do 0603 just fine with the naked eye, and I still do on a large board. Heck, I once used 0201 resistors on protoboard. But on any smaller pcb's and fine pitch IC's, it's just too good. You can't miss what you don't know. So run, now.This is probably the reason why Amscope is considered inferior optics to those who have used better. My wallet is telling me to stay away from better microscopes.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 01:21:12 am
content: Stand only has up/down - the boom style are too big for my desk.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 01:24:52 am
content: Ahh... well, to effectively work under a microscope, you have to situate it perfectly for yourself. It was in hindsight that I learned how useful the tilt is. I'd almost call it mandatory.If an adjustable stool doesn't do the trick, you may need to consider building a new bench or returning the scope. It was a week or two process of rearranging my lab to get my scope fully funcitional. Yeah, the boom stands take a certain depth of space to get the most out of them.Perhaps you could remove the Barlow and work on top of a cutting board. This would be great for ICs. But you will still have the problem of too small a FOV for many types of electronics work, IMO.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 01:34:43 am
content: I am using X1 Barlow and the min magnification and height are OK. I wouldn't mind having smaller magnification but not at the cost of increased height. I use optivisor 90% of the time and microscope 10%.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 01:46:04 am
content: To illustrate the importance of the adjustment, I have my scope adjusted to where I can work for hours without any strain. Better than working under a lamp or naked eye. Good posture, straight back, no bending at the neck to see down. Simply awesome.When I showed my friend the scope, he couldn't even see through the eyepiece, and he's only half an inch shorter than me. Had to tilt the scope from 12ish degrees to about 25ish.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 02:17:07 am
content: Thanks for the advice guys. I agree, when it is right, it is perfect. I just did a TQFP and a mini USB jack on it. I don't usually have trouble with TQFP, but wow can I see better. The USB however would give me problems with bridging between those 5 little pins. Seeing better not only let me control the iron better (no bridges in the first place), but I can easily see that each pad/pin is connected right.The scope is much better ergonomically than the optivisor which requires me to be within 4-8 inches of the pcb, but the visor let's you move all around with ease, so I will probably end up doing what you do zapta - use the visor for a percentage of work and the scope for a percentage of work.I'm going to try the 0.7X barlow to see if it is low enough still and can increase the FOV/decrease the magnification some.

author: picitup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 04:19:42 pm
content: I have an old Nikon SMZ-2B which I bought for £150.00 on eBay. I think it was made in the 1960s. It has a variable zoom up to 40x which is plenty and the eyepieces are 30mm barrel which is a size still commonly sold.I bought an eyepiece with a reticule scale and a Stage Micrometer slide so I can measure things accurately. This was only $8.98 from fleabay. You calibrate the reticule using the slide and then remove the slide and measure the subject. I bought these as I used to poke my steel rule in to measure stuff and this massive girder appeared in view so was difficult to measure stuff.I'm pleased with the microscope, but it has a normal stand so large PCBs are a problem. I wish I had a boom....After saying all this, I use my hyperbins more often. I bought 2 pairs of +3.5 reading glasses from the pound shop, took one set of lenses out and hot glued them in front of the other lenses, giving +7. I can solder 0805 resistors with these no problem. And at 56, it's probably a miracle.The only slight disadvantage with the hyperbins is the focal length is very short, so you have to get quite close. Not saying my nose is big, but I have to watch I don't burn it lol. But for the price they work great.CheersSteve

author: picitup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 04:24:13 pm
content: Oh I forgot to say, being the ultimate tight wad, I bought a 12v LED ring from fleabay that the sell as 'halo rings angel eyes' lights for cars for £6.00. It fits round the outside of the objective lens with a bit of rubber stuffed in to fill the gap and illuminates the subject well even at 40x when you need the most light.CheersSteve

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 05:44:00 pm
content: This is why the long time electronics industry work horse Bausch & Lomb Stereo zoom 4 (good used ones are $100 to $300 USD including stand) has a magnification range of 0.7x to 3x. Most electronics microscope work does not require high magnification, really good optics or complex lighting systems. The head and eyepieces are low profile specifically designed to specifically address this problem you're presently dealing with. The marketing of made in China-Asia stereo zoom microscopes with 5x to 45X or so for electronics is often not the ideal magnification range for the application.At 2x to 3x a illuminated magnifier lamp can work good enough, as would plus diopter glasses or even Dental Loupes (often used by dentist).Tilting the microscope body will affect image geometry inflicting geometric distortion on to the microscope image. This is why high quality microscopes have tilt adjustments designed and built into the microscope and many various adjustments that can be altered specifically to a given user.In all cases, a microscope MUST be properly set up mechanically and optically to the specific needs of a single user. Once properly adjusted and set up, other individuals using this same microscope more often than not will be uncomfortable using it or be completely unable to use it. Learning proper microscope posture and optical set up is important as poor set up can and will result in eye strain, back problems and overall physical-mind fatigue over time. Do not discount the seriousness of proper microscope posture and set up.http://safetyservices.ucdavis.edu/ps/ebm/le/microscope-ergonomicshttps://www.microscopyu.com/articles/ergonomics/ergointro.htmlBerniceQuote from: alank2 on November 21, 2015, 02:17:07 am

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 06:07:38 pm
content: I've just picked up an old Nikon SMZ. It's probably 50 years old but the image is still better than the more modern economy scopes I've used.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 06:29:07 pm
content: Yeah, ergonomics really is key.A good adjustable height stool or chair can go a long way towards getting things right.You do not want to be working with your neck flexed forward.

author: picitup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 06:34:07 pm
content: Hi KJDS your microscope is almost as old as me :-). Youre right the image is very nice quality. I also forgot to mention that I can take photos through it with my MOTO G smart phone. It's a bit fiddly, but I'll make a holder at some point to align it properly.As far as a really nice boom stand goes, they're often over £100.00 so I may make one of these with some steel pipe which would be much cheaper.CheersSteve

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 06:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 21, 2015, 05:44:00 pmI tried a few of these options before getting the Amscope but they were not as good. I could do the job but with the Amscope I 'really' see it and I can control the soldering much better. It's sometimes using it for the fun for soldering standard PTH headers and such. I can see the fine details of the solder flowing into the hole and can control the exact amount of solder to have a well wet and perfectly concave solder joint.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 06:51:56 pm
content: I'm thinking about getting a Glamox Luxo magnifier lamp to upgrade the cheap magnifier lamp I currently have for a while now. What I like about a magnifier lamp in general is that I can hold a PCB under it and use both eyes to look at it. However the lense in the cheap magnifier lamp has a lot of distortion along the edges so it's useful area is rather small.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 07:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 21, 2015, 05:44:00 pmGood luck doing SMT inspection at 3x. When you need more magnification, youreallyneed it.This is why they call it a "hairline crack" -- that black wire running across the photoisa hair, placed on the board for comparison.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 07:32:37 pm
content: Here's a view of an SMA cal kit through a Leica MZ12The outer diameter of the central pin is about 1mm. I've now got a video capture card, I really should make some more videos through it

author: picitup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2015, 07:50:28 pm
content: Very nice setup. I'm jealous. If you ever want to swap it for a Nikon, halo ring and smart phone, get in touch :-)CheersSteve

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 04:25:55 am
content: I did some more soldering tonight without the barlow and while the height is good, the 7X minimum isn't as helpful unless you are doing a specific small pitch type part. It is amazing how much more you can see.I'm going to try to work out the 0.5X barlow before ordering a 0.7X. It looks like the vertical bar is mounted using 3 allen headed bolts and I don't care so much about my desk/table so I am going to drill 3 holes in it and mount the bar directly to my table. This will get me 3/4" in height reduction and at the same time I don't need to worry about where the base ends and drops off, etc. I measured my chair and it is just a cheap folding chair with only 16" seat height so I'm going to try another one with some padding to make up the rest of the height. I'm hoping both things will have me using the 0.5X barlow so I can go down to 3.5X and all will be excellent.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 07:52:18 am
content: One other thing to try would be to use a pair of lower magnification eye pieces. It might give acceptable results.There are a host of low cost new and not too expensive eye piece pairs available (from under $20 per pair to several hundred USD depending on quality, condition and...). Common magnifications for eye pieces are 5X, 10X (most common), 15X and 20X in normal to wide field to long eye relief which world well for those wearing corrective eye wear.The eye pieces should simply lift out of the microscope head. Once removed, measure the outside diameter of the tube that fits into the microscope head tube. it is likely to be just under 24mm which is a very common industry standard for almost 100 years now. The other common tube diameter for low magnification stereo microscopes is 30mm diameter.BerniceQuote from: alank2 on November 22, 2015, 04:25:55 am

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 08:25:25 am
content: Bausch & Lomb stereo zoom 4 has a body magnification of 0.7x to 3x. Depending on eye pieces (typically 10x to 20x) and Aux lens of 0.5x or others (barlow lens) results in the total overall magnification.That "crack" in the image appears to be more of a long scratch rather than a crack due to the constant arc and mostly constant line width. Cracks tend to produce much more random and jagged lines than illustrated in this image.Magnification is NOT a replacement or substitute for good image quality and resolution.There is a residual solder ball in the center of the "R" of the R31 designator. Using the photo tube and mirror less camera, fiber optic ring light on the Wild M5A set at 6X, the solder ball is not that visible (still is if one looks carefully) in this digital image due to jpeg digital image compression and digital camera imaging optics, That solder ball is easily visible at 6x via the eye pieces.Wild M5A set at 12X, the solder ball is now visible mostly due to lesser compression problems with jpeg processing.At 25X, should be no difficulty locating the stray solder ball.At 50X:High resolution and image quality from the lowest magnification allows wide field eye scanning for possible problem areas. Once a specific location need closer examination, that is when increasing magnification can help to resolve further details.Note the color balance, lighting quality, low geometric distortion (even with a less than level specimen), visibility of texture, contrast ratios and many more visual deals even in these low quality digital images.Last image, APC-3.5 connector same Wild M5A set at 6X.This should NOT be view as a competition over microscopes and such, this is MUCH about low magnification microscopes and what good alternatives there are to purchasing new. The more one knows prior to making purchasing choices new or used, the chances of the buyer making a properly informed choice is greater when a greater understanding and knowing what the many limitations can be.Bonus images using a Leitz Ergolux, 10X Fluotar objective & about 10X projection camera objective with bright field illumination of ?As with the other digital images, there is significant image quality degradation due to a host of various factors.Same specimen, same set up using dark field illumination:BerniceQuote from: KE5FX on November 21, 2015, 07:17:28 pm

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 09:38:04 am
content: I certainly envy that camera. The criticisms of AmScope's cameras are unfortunately all too accurate.Optically, you're not really seeing anything on the Wild that I can't see on my AmScope... but one difference is, you can document the resultsmuchbetter than I can. That counts for a lot in my book. And that looks like a great illumination setup as well.Quote from: Rupunzell on November 22, 2015, 08:25:25 amWhich is why this one was very difficult to find. If I couldn't swing the boom away from the workbench and move the board around at arbitrary angles under the objective, I'd still be looking for it. Can't mistake lower-quality photography for a lower-quality image.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 09:46:38 am
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 22, 2015, 08:25:25 amI leaarned that when I was 9, with a *100 to *400 microscopeThanks for the rather nice photos. They made me want to invest time and money in that area - but fortunately sense has overridden my emotions!

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 09:59:56 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 22, 2015, 09:46:38 amHeh, mine went to 1200x.Of course, the laser that you'd need to illuminate the subject wasn't sold in the Sears Christmas catalog...

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 12:23:04 pm
content: QuoteI'd call Amscope before trying this. One of the reviews says that going to 5x gives a smaller viewing area, so it makes everything smaller, but it doesn't increase the FOV.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 01:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 22, 2015, 12:23:04 pmI've sent them a message about it already; waiting for a response. The SM scope takes 30mm eyepieces and the 5X ones are 30.5mm so I don't know if that will be an issue or not. They do seem a loose fit, so perhaps it will work. The part where you look through is definitely smaller than the 10X ones, perhaps that is why the FOV is smaller. Honestly losing the FOV would invalidate the benefit of the lower magnification. I wonder if a 5X wide field is even possible - perhaps the zoom part of the scope is designed for the 10X and going smaller than that means you would be looking outside of the optics?Here is the 5X eyepiece - they are 30.5 instead of 30mm - not sure if they would fit

author: moya034
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 02:13:11 pm
content: Thanks for all the info in this thread! Been wanting to get into SMD for a while and didn't quite no where to start with the microsocope. Based on advice in this thread I decided on a Bausch & Lomb StereoZoom 4 mounted on a boom stand with an adjustable LED Ring light on ebay.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 06:00:06 pm
content: None of what was posted is or was ever intended to criticize Amscope specifically. This is much about microscopes in general. There are a number of big name brands that are made in China and other parts of Asia. This has been true for decades now. From these origins is how China-Asia got into the microscope industry. Not that these instruments are instantly inferior or ... it is a matter of knowing about the details that may or may not matter for some seeking a microscope. There is a degree of cost cutting and designed in service life and non-servicability that continues to gross me out about many of the new lower cost microscopes from just about any brand.This blog gives a quick run down of some name brands made in China-Asia. Notice the number of Leica microscopes made in China which is reflective of Danaher's drive for profitability that permeates the companies they own (Tektronix, Fluke and many more).https://microscopetalk.wordpress.com/microscopes/nikon-zeiss-leica-and-nikon-microscope-oem-production-in-china/The Bausch & Lomb stereo zooms are just one of the most common good used stereo zoom microscopes on the market. Don't rule out equally or better from Nikon, Olympus, Meiji and others. Know the ones to stay away from such as the low cost Leica plastic wonders and others. This is about getting the most microscope for funds spent be it used or new. If possible make the use purchase with a right to return. There could be hidden problems that is not apparent at the initial purchase.Good microscope camera systems are expensive, and optically complex due to mechanical and optical requirements. One of my fave microscopes for making images would be the Zeiss Ultraphot III.http://www.optovid.de/images3/1-Ultraphot-1396032958.jpgBeyond the hardware, there is lighting, and knowing precisely how to use the instruments involved, understanding of subjects being imaged.Each year Nikon promotes microscope images with their Small World exhibit and contest. Many of these images are stunning works of art that illustrate the commonality between science and art.http://www.nikonsmallworld.com/galleriesEyepieces on stereo zoom or fixed magnification microscopes are far more often than not interchangeable as the microscope industry has been mostly standardized for host of reasons. This mean using a non Amscope brand eyepiece on a Amscope microscope has a very high chance all will be fine. Over the decades, I have mixed Leitz with Zeiss with made in China to made in Russia and many others with no problems other than noting the differences in optical design, optical performance and slight mechanical differences. Most common in modern stereo microscopes is the 30mm OD, the older 24mm is slowly dying out.5x eye piece will result in lower magnification, not always in wider field of view. A 10x wide field eyepiece and have a much larger field of view than a 5X and this varies a LOT depending on the specific design of the eyepiece. There are a number of 10X eye pieces today with up tp a 25mm exit diameter to produce a wide field. These typically have 55 degrees of view -vs- 45 degrees or less for more common eye pieces with a smaller exit diameter.Proper lighting and microscope support are equally important elements of the microscope system. Keep in mind, as with a good O'scope, good probes and all related matter.There are institutions that specialize in education and training on using optical microscopes.http://web.biologie.uni-bielefeld.de/imaging/index.php/instrumentsMost of the optical microscope develops today are focused at the medical and bio tech areas as these are currently the most demanding customers and users.Bernice

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 06:43:26 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on November 22, 2015, 06:00:06 pmYears ago I worked on a system in this space and the microscope was the bottleneck, image quality wise. Some customers already had expensive microscopes with German brand names but the ones that started from scratch we recommended a Nikon which gave the best result (image resolution and lighting uniformity). The requirements were very different from SMD work, with no 'working space' and messy oil filling the tiny gap between the slide and the first lens. We also had do a significant amount image enhancement in addition to the automatic detection and analysis (which was then reviewed, corrected and approved by trained professionals).

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2015, 07:20:43 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 22, 2015, 06:43:26 pmThat would be a compound microscope using an oil immersion lens which is commonly used at higher magnifications (60x objective or higher). Compound microscopes are quite different than the stereo microscopes used in electronics as we've been discussing here. The main trade off being between higher magnification and stereoscopic vision (allowing depth perception) plus working distance. In my previous career in the biosciences I used both professionally - stereo scopes for dissections, intercellular electrode positioning and teaching demos, compound scopes for cellular and intracellular work.Compound microscopes add another level of complexity where high quality optics, maintenance and adjustment become even more critical.Microscopy is really an interesting subject and this thread has really re-sparked my interest in the finer points. I don't think I would ever pursue it as a hobby unto itself but I can see why others would.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2015, 12:38:27 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on November 22, 2015, 07:20:43 pmIIRC the objective was 100x. The end result of the process looked like the chart in the picture below. The system did background light balancing, image enhancement, contour detection and the initial classification and arrangement. The technicians then did manual correction, marking of the anomalies, and writing the report. It was amazing how much they saw in those blurred blobs.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2015, 02:34:12 am
content: Human chromosomal analysis - G banding I think- showing trisomy 22 in this case. Cool picture but bad defect that usually leads to an early miscarriage.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2015, 03:58:06 am
content: Alank2:I have noticed that if I take off my glasses, I have to move the microscope down a little. (I'm nearsighted).So I started thinking about how you could utilize this to you advantage. I pulled an eyepiece up/out a little from within the scope tube and held it there, and I refocused the microscope. And what do you know? Eureka!I can still get about the same image, but the scope has to be moved way closer to the object of interest. I have no idea how this affects depth of focus or color correction. But it makes a massive different to focal length between object and objective, easily 2-3 inches at least before the eyepiece is all the way out of the tube, and the picture appears to be the same. I'm not sure where this would max out, because I can hold the eyepiece well out of the tube and still see clearly, it just gets harder to hold it still, lol. And yes, the focal distance changes more than the difference in height of the eyepiece (at least it appears to be about a 2:1 difference with my setup), and on the lowest magnification and 0.5 Barlow, I'm seeing the same FOV and image size! I have no clue how microscopes work. Just relaying this info. So it seems like you could reduce the working height by about an inch with minor modification. (about 2 inches between scope and work, and add an extra inch between the scope and the end of the eyepiece?)So maybe give this a try. I will be experimenting with it some more. Seems like all you need to do is tape them up a litte to experiment, though of course they would hav to both be equal to get correct focus. Perhaps one could make some custom bushings for different working heights.*Edit: it totally screws up the tracking, though, and at higher mag you have to back way out, again.... oops. Well, anyway it might be good for wide angle fixed magnification work, only.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2015, 04:25:10 am
content: I'm back to using the barlow 0.5X now. I drilled some holes in my desk and got some 4mm x 0.7mm thread pitch socket head bolts and bolted the vertical bar directly to my desk. This allowed me to eliminate the base and save 0.8". I found a taller chair and this does work, but I'm not sure I love the chair. I may have to keep looking for one. It still feels a little tall like I'm away from the action a bit, but perhaps I just need to get used to it more. I'll try your idea of pulling out the eyepieces a bit and another forum member is being very kind to send me some different eyepieces to try to see if they are better.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:59:59 pm
content: Oil immersion objectives have been around for about 100 years now. The other variety of immersion objectives are designed for water, some work for oil or water.Immersion objectives are most all higher magnifications where differences in refractive index degrade optical performance. More here:http://academic.pgcc.edu/~kroberts/Lecture/Chapter%204/lightmicro.htmland here:http://www.olympusmicro.com/primer/anatomy/immersion.htmlMicroscopes in the biotech and material science and related technologies are similar to Oscilloscopes in the electronics world. They are a source of visualization of what cannot be easily seen or perceived by human senses alone. Both rely on the power of human pattern recognition and ability to analyze to interpret the images presented to have meaning and value.Another similarity would be telescopes in the world of Astronomy and Cosmology.BerniceQuote from: mtdoc on November 22, 2015, 07:20:43 pm

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 02:46:20 pm
content: I know I posted earlier that I have a cheap Variscope but lurking on this thread has made me seriously consider upgrading. My requirement is for PCB inspection and building, I need a long (8 inch) working distance, and the current magnification I have is fixed at 10x (10x eyepieces and 1x objective). I looked at Amscopes and liked the idea of the Simul-Focal that allows simultaneous camera and stereo eyepieces because I'd like to add the ability to see my PCBs on a monitor and capture pictures.I've looked at a lot of Amscopes such as their 3.5X-90X Simul-Focal Boom Microscope + Fluorescent Light + 5MP Camera (SKU: SM-4TPZ-FRL-5M) but it's $700 with a fluorescent light and Amscope are regarded as inferior optics - their cameras also appear to be overpriced and not very good.I see an Olympus OLYMPUS SZ30 SZ3060 STEREO HEAD + 15X EYEPIECES + SD-STB3 head unit on eBay right now for $219, Questions:1. Am I right in saying that, with the SZ3060 head at 0.9-4 x and 15x eyepieces, I'd get overall magnification of 13.5-60x?2. Am I right that If I add the 110AL0.5 conversion (Barlow?) lens I will change my range to 6.75-30x and will that double the working distance too?I'd also have to add a conversion lens ($165 on eBay), stand, lighting, and maybe figure out how to put a camera into one of the eye sockets but I think I'd end up with a much better system. One thing that concerns me is the cost of the official conversion lens but given thatthe datasheetshows that it's M48X0.75 could I use a non-Olympus one?Thanks for any help.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 02:56:21 pm
content: An update - a forum member sent me some 10X eyepieces to try and I don't think they are compatible with my SM-1BX scope. At the lowest magnification (3.5X) I do have to lower the scope to get a focus, but they don't allow me to go through the zoom range without refocusing like the amscope ones do. He thought perhaps that there is something different about the way the amscope has been implemented that makes it not compatible with standard eyepieces.I did call amscope about 5x ones because none of the ones on their website said they would work, and they found and added this item to their site for me:http://www.amscope.com/accessories/eyepiece/pair-of-wf5x-microscope-eyepieces-30mm.htmlI am tempted to order and try them, but I'm not sure if they will give me the FOV increase or not given that the exit lens that you see through is quite a bit smaller. If they worked the same though,it would mean 1.75x - 11.25x with the 0.5x barlow in place...

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 08:07:34 pm
content: please post back if u do. if this is full fov, I want it.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 08:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 27, 2015, 08:07:34 pmI just sent them an email asking them to test it with a SM scope in the 0.5X barlow lens configuration. I get 60.5mm FOV now with the 10X eyepieces and minimum magnification. I will post back what I hear or if I order them what I find out.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 09:36:30 pm
content: I just got an Amscope SE-305R-PZ scope about two weeks ago. From Amazon, with the Amscope MD35 camera, and two-day shipping, it was under $200. I'm amazed at the quality of the microscope, for the money. (The camera, not so much....)It has objectives of 1x and 3x, and comes with 10x and 20x "widefield" eyepieces. (30.5 mm barrels). At the lowest power combination the FOV is roughly 20 mm. The 20x eyepieces are not exactly "wide field" by my definition of the term. However the optics are excellent, nice and flat across the FOV such as it is, and no chromatic aberration. The working distance between objective and workpiece is around 5 or 6 cm, a little tight for actual working, but it makes a great inspection microscope. So I'm still soldering using a magnifying visor and magnifying reader glasses, then moving to the Amscope for inspection. The overhead light source is nice and bright and is at a good angle for inspection. It also has an underneath light but I don't use that one much.The camera is a big disappointment though. It makes good-enough images at 640 pixels horizontal resolution, but it _greatly_ magnifies and _greatly_ narrows the FOV. Even worse, it is not parfocal with the eyepiece. What you see in the eyepiece is definitely _not_ what you see with the camera. It would be very nice to have a camera in one side and an eyepiece in the other side that have the same FOV and magnification, but with this camera it is not to be. I'm still looking for a camera solution that will give the same FOV as the 10x eyepieces and is parfocal.Still, I'm very happy with the microscope itself.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 10:00:56 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on November 27, 2015, 02:56:21 pmIs it the same as this Amazon Prime product?http://amzn.com/B005OLMQ1GI would benefit from reducing the magnification and increasing the FOV, all without adding a Barlow lens and increasing the head height, if it is possible.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 10:07:59 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 27, 2015, 10:00:56 pmNO - the ones they recently added are 30mm:http://www.amscope.com/accessories/eyepiece/pair-of-wf5x-microscope-eyepieces-30mm.html$41.98 from their website

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2015, 10:45:40 pm
content: They couldn't answer my question - the old warehouse is located somewhere else response. I ordered them - I'll let you guys know what they are like when they arrive.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 02:28:49 am
content: Louis has a recent episode regarding inexpensive microscopes for electronic work.

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 08:48:51 pm
content: Looks like Louis didn't ask the right questions on his first purchase and is unhappy about it. I did get a 2300S and it's been great.

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 03:18:09 am
content: Hello,I have not had the time to read the whole thread but did you see this ingenuous idea from Roman Black:http://www.romanblack.com/VGA_microscope/VGAmic.htmLooks like a winner and you can use that old VGA monitor!SamW3OHM

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 04:46:26 am
content: Watched some of that. Luis says"Amscope and Amano probably come out of the same factory in China."Just wanted to add one datapoint. My Amscope LED ring has the same threading problem as his Amano.And hot glue works a lot better than painter's tape.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:57:38 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 03, 2015, 04:46:26 amIs that 'adapter' that doesn't hold is a plastic ring that thread into the head? If so, using a barlow lens should fix it because it has metal thread. I am using an X1 Barlow. It holds well the LED ring and also protects the bottom lense from fume.

author: pinyoro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 07:26:58 am
content: Where are you guys buying Barlow lens from? I need a X 0.5.

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 04:50:07 pm
content: I picked mine up with the microscope from Microscope.com. Arrived with the scope and threaded right in. No problems to this point. I see there are cheaper ones out there, but I don't know how to find the thread and pitch I need for my scope, so it was easier to buy one from the scope vendor.Fat

author: pinyoro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:10:04 pm
content: Thanks a lot Fat

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 07:17:26 pm
content: The 5X eyepieces are TERRIBLE. They have even LESS FOV (57mm) at the minimum zoom. And they seem crossed or something, the image is in a different place in each one, I can't get the stereo to come together.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 08:27:51 pm
content: ^ Thanks for the update. I was curious about it, and it seemed too easy. For clarity, is that 57mm WITH the 0.5x Barlow, or without?I'm measuring about 7.1 cm FOV with my 0.5 Barlow.QuoteThe threading on the barlow lens is aluminum, but the adapter ring between it and the LED ring is plastic. It's slightly oversize with threading that looks like the grooves on a record, so it doesn't hold to the Barlow, exactly like what Luis has going on with the blue painter's tape.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 02:27:08 am
content: The video was informative and entertaining. One of the best parts was the demo of what you see at various magnification settings (6.5x, 25x 45x).Seems like a Simul-Focal Stereo 3.5x-45x or maybe a 3.5x-90x would be a good range for soldering. Yes, No?http://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-simul-focal-stereo-zoom-microscope-on-dual-arm-boom-stand.htmlIs a Dual Arm Boom Stand a decent stand?What light and camera might be recommended?

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 02:42:12 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 04, 2015, 08:27:51 pmThat is WITH. The 0.5x barlow isn't coming off anymore, it is a necessity. I think the 10X eyepieces that came with it have 63mm! So everything is smaller and there is less to see, no advantage there.I'm just going to go with the 0.5X barlow and 10X eyepieces that came with it. This gives me 3.5X to 22.5X and honestly I wish it could go lower in magnification to get just a little bit more FOV, but it is plenty workable. I'm still not sure if I want to use it all the time or just on certain parts part time with my optivisors (I've got the 2.5X and 3.5X).

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:37:40 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 05, 2015, 02:27:08 am"Simul-Focal" is really only important if you are making videos of your soldering with a trinocular scope like Louis is.Much more important for us non-YouTube celebrities is having a scope that is truly Parfocal - that is one that stays in focus as magnification changes. This is something the low end microscopes often have a hard time achieving.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:48:24 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 05, 2015, 03:37:40 amRight, I get that Simul-Focal is for making videos/capturing images - presumably this can be done while having a stereo view through the microscope, and with a video camera the same view would be available simultaneously on a computer or monitor, I think. That's the objective I have in mind.The Parfocal feature sounds like a very good feature - any chance this feature can be had in the Amscope line (under $1k including simulscope, stand, light, and camera?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:59:30 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 05, 2015, 03:48:24 amI don't know anything about Amscopes other than what I've read on this forum.20 years ago when i was demo-ing scopes to be purchased for a university teaching lab, I found that many of the low end scopes claiming to be parfocal really were not.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:16:03 am
content: In looking around for info on parfocal I came across this:In looking further I saw this:http://microscope-depot.com/picspopup.asp?popupProdNo=LX-05500&selectedPic=Setting aside the price, if you could view a LCD instead of having to keep you head down in a conventional microscope and you could get image and video captured, would this be a superior approach to viewing small objects while soldering?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:25:32 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 05, 2015, 04:16:03 amInteresting concept for a video scope but I'm skeptical. As i believe Dave has shown in some past videos, even the best video systems with very fast frame rates do not compare to direct visualization through a quality stereo microscope.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:48:22 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 05, 2015, 04:25:32 amOk, that would be a trade-off. ThxOn an different item, it seems like about 8" of working distance is recommended for soldering? Given that some scopes have specifications of 4", what is the trick to achieving 8"? Is it in the boom/stand or some other aspect of the scope configuration or setup?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:52:36 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 05, 2015, 04:48:22 amA "Barlow lens" is a type of auxillary lens that is threaded on below the other lenses and increases working distance at the expense of lowering magnification.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 05:57:16 am
content: QuoteThey don't really make microscope that aren't parfocal, so you won't find this listed as a feature. If your microscope doesn't stay in focus throughout the range, it could be that it just isn't setup, correctly, for your eyesight.There are rings on the stem of the eyepiece for focusing to an individual's eyesight. They aren't just there if one of your eyes is different than the other. If your scope isn't parfocal (for you), you can adjust it by turning these rings.You will also have to readjust if you take off your glasses, etc.So you can't buy a microscope that is perfectly parfocal for two people that have different eyesight. Don't count out a cheaper microscope if you haven't adjusted it.My Amscope stays in focus just fine.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 06:13:14 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 05, 2015, 04:52:36 amThanks for the tip - found this - some good info including references to soldering.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 06:30:18 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 05, 2015, 05:57:16 amOK that's encouraging - ThxPresumably on a simul-focal scope the camera fov distance and focus are independent adjustments separate from the optical adjustments?

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 06:33:20 am
content: Any reason to go with either a 45x or 90x?Seems like 45x should do it but is there any downside to a 90x if they both start at 3.5x?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 08:03:44 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 05, 2015, 05:57:16 amThat is incorrect. Not all stereo microscopes can be adjusted to be parfocal. A quick search shows that even Amscope specifically lists some scopes as parfocal and not others. For example seehere.It is true that the eyepieces must be used to adjust a parfocal scope to different eyes but this will not allow a non-parfocal scope to be truly parfocal.Generally any high qualitycompoundmicroscope can be made par focal with proper adjustment since the objective lenses can be individually adjusted. It is a different situation with stereo zoom scopes.Depending on the magnification and zoom range, lack of true parfocal quality may not be an issue and may be ok for general soldering and low mag electronics work - depending on ones needs and expectations. To be honest, I have not done a lot of soldering under a scope but i did spend years doing fine dissections and intracellular electrode placements with stereozoom scopes. At least in those situations the difference between a scope that is truly parfocal and one that is not is huge.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 12:40:05 pm
content: I use my AmScope for SMD work and rarely change the zoom level from the minimum of ~7X. I do chance focus often but this is due to changes in object height.I don't know if my model is parfocal or not but it wouldn't matter much for me anyway.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:45:28 pm
content: The SM style microscope I ordered is parfocal with the eyepieces that came with it (10X wide field), but it was not parfocal with some eyepieces a forum member sent me to try out. Not sure if this means some sort of incompatibility or what on the part of amscope, but the 10X ones it came with work very well.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 05, 2015, 02:42:12 am

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 05, 2015, 06:33:20 amFor what? Fixed focal length optics are cheaper and perform better, and a switchable 5X/15X scope consists of 10X WF eyepieces, a 0.5X barlow lens, and a main lens that's either switched in (3X) or out (1X). Keeping it parfocal consists of using a flat piece of glass of the right thickness at 1X. You get either 10*1*0.5 = 5X or 10*3*0.5 = 15X. If you remove the barlow you get 10X/30X. I'd suggest buying what you need for electronics work, and if you later want to use the same scope to dissect bacteria (or whatever it is they're used for) then get the proper optics, lighting, and stand for it. (Or more likely, an entirely different lab scope better suited for the purpose.)

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:53:41 pm
content: 6x to 7x became the industry accepted lowest magnification without adding a Barlow lens to reduce magnification due to optical design considerations and market demands of how stereo microscopes were being used.Below 5X, the most common visual aid would be the magnifier lamp, diopter glasses or similar.Optical demands for larger to mid-size SMD parts simply does not require high magnification often 20X with good resolution, low distortion, proper color rendition and.. is plenty. Going past 20x up to 45X puts much greater demands on the overall optical design and more upon any stereo microscope. IMO, 45X for most SMD electronics work is not necessary or required. Better to have a lower magnification microscope with good resolution, color rendition, contrast, low distortion that the magnification number.Current research grade stereo microscopes go up to a few hundred X for magnification with excellent color rendition, low distortion and all those good thinks that comes with five figure stereo microscopes... and not really needed for SMD or general electronics work.There are fixed magnification stereo microscopes like this one made by NSK in Japan. These are common on Japan made SMD work stations and other industrial workstations that require modest magnification. The basic stereo microscope is 10X. Adding their 0.5x Barlow lens results in 5X. It has wide field of view and not very focus critical, similar to using a magnifier lamp with higher magnification.http://www.labtek.net/Nissho.htmThese NSK fixed magnification stereo microscopes are optically OK, not great, not poor but good enough to get the job done. They are small, easy to use and well made for what they are.Bernice

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 12:28:09 am
content: Ok, so it would seem that for soldering somewhere between 3x and 10x is generally desirable and at the outside for some requirements it might be useful to get to 20x.If that's correct, A-OK - but the scopes made in the market don't seem to be designed specifically for soldering - they address lots of possible applications.So we get fixed magnification scopes that for example offer 5x, 10x, 15x, and 30x. In this case 30x doesn't really fit the soldering realm - no big deal. That leaves 5 and 10 which might be pretty useful and the occasional use of 15.I realize there are a number of variables but would it be preferable to have a perfectly parafocal fixed 5, 10, 15 or would it be more useful to have a not quite parafocal (that requires some refocusing) but that is variable/zoomable from 5-15? (So you could have continuously variable control over magnification and FOV.)

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 01:03:20 am
content: More questions:Given that it's common to mount a circuit board in some type of device to hold it still at a desired angle (such as the circuit board holder and panavise shown below), it seems that not only is it important to get sufficient working space between the objective lens and the item being viewed but it would be valuable to get that working space started at some level other than the fixed base of the microscope stand.In the Single Boom stand it seems that the working space is on the order of 4-8" and maybe 8" with the Double Boom stand. I realize all the microscope is potentially top heavy but it would seem like with a sturdy base and sturdy vertical rod that the vertical rod could be made longer (twice as high?) to allow for some clearance underneath. But given that these Single and Double Booms are fairly short fixed-length vertical rods maybe it would be more useful to have an Articulating Boom?Perhaps these are just tradeoffs between bench space, budget, and convenience? Would the Articulating Boom allow the scope head to get above a circuit board holder or panavise? Or is that a bad idea because it will become tiresome soldering in such an arrangement? Perhaps it's better to try to lay the circuit board flat at the base of the Single Boom or Double Boom and be done with it?

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 01:54:47 am
content: I use a blue silicone pad, though you can't see much of it. I've got the scope mounted directly to my work desk.I'm using a piece of scrap glass to protect the barlow lens. It is double stick taped, but it didn't hold so I added more tape and a rubber band.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 02:05:18 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 06, 2015, 01:54:47 amVery innovative! Nice work!- what is the clearance between the lens and the PCBs?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 02:16:38 am
content: EF - Keep in mind that raising your pcb much above the bench surface means that you will now need your chair to raise up higher as well.Ergonomics become vital when working with a scope for any length of time. I believe there was a discussion earlier in this thread about this issue.A good adjustable chair becomes very important with the ability to raise it up high enough to that you are not bending your back or neck to look through your scope eyepieces. A Panavise + large working distance (via Barlow lens) will mean a pretty high chair height (bench height dependent of course).Also, although I'm a relative novice doing smd soldering under a scope, my more extensive but similar experience doing fine dissections tells me that without the ability to rest the base of your hands or forearms as you work - you will develop strain and fatigue in your shoulders and arms. It is also is harder to steady your hands for very fine work.I would guess the PCB on the benchtop as alank2 does will likely be more practical for prolonged soldering sessions - at least ergonomically.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 02:29:28 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 06, 2015, 02:05:18 amIt is 6 3/16" between the bottom of the barlow lens and the top of the pcb.It is 5" between the bottom of the glass protector and the top of the pcb.The black ring under it keeps it height from changing and I can leave the main lock down knob unlocked so it is free to swing in a circle. I just move it out of the way and it can spin 180 degrees and be mostly out of the way.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:55:26 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 06, 2015, 02:16:38 amYep, for extended every day soldering I think sitting in an ergonomic position would be a very good goal. In my case it's only occasional work and generally for an hour or two so I mostly stand. Having said that, alank2's layout looks very practical with the riser through the bench, the flat work surface, the ability to swing the scope out of the way - sturdy, useful, cost-effective - a good design.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 04:03:07 am
content: Still trying to learn microscopes 101....http://www.amscope.com/6-7x-45x-ultimate-parfocal-trinocular-stereo-zoom-microscope-head.htmlWith the addition of a 0.5 Barlow this would provide a parfocal zoom from 3.35X -22.5X?And the 0.5 Barlow would turn the 4.5" working distance into 9"?----This is a 6.7X-45X zoom magnification trinocular stereo microscope head with ultimate optical system, offering top-level sharp clear erect stereo images over a large zoom magnification range. The major benefit of a parfocal head is that once the head is adjusted to be 4.5" away from your sample's surface, you can use the entire magnification range without refocusing! It includes a pair of extreme widefield high-eyepoint WH10X/22 eyepieces with foldable eyeguards. Its trinocular port enables to add photo or video capability. It comes with 45-degree inclined 30mm eyetubes with diopter. The extreme widefield optics and high-eyepiont design ensure an easy and comfortable observation. This microscope head fits all the stands with a 3" (76mm in diameter) O-ring holder. It is made by the same technicians and on the same production line that makes optical instruments for Leica, Zeiss, Nikon and Olympus. It is brand new in factory box. Its retail value is $2300.Features:•6.7X-45X Continuous Zoom Magnification Offering Top-Level Quality Images & Parfocality•45-degree Inclined Trinocular Head with Extreme Widefield High-Eyepoint Eyepieces•30mm Extreme Widefield WH10X/22 Eyepieces•High Resolution with Great Flatness and Contrast•Sharp Stereo Erect Images over a Wide Field View•Crystal Clear Original True Color Images•Both Ocular-Tubes with Adjustable Diopter•Large Working Distance (4.5" at all magnifications!)•Accurate Alignment Ensuring a Fatigue-Free Viewing•Full Optical Glass Elements•Precise Ground Glass Lens•All Metal Mechanical Components•Adjustable Interpupillary Distance•Rubber Eyeguards Included•Manufactured under ISO 9001 Quality Control Standard•Excellent Five (5) Year Manufacturer WarrantySpecifications:•Head: 45-degree inclined 360-degree swiveling trinocular parfocal•Eyepiece: 30mm extreme widefield high-eyepoint WH10X/22•Objective: 0.67-4.5X•Zoom Range: 6.7:1•Diopter Adjustment: ±5dp•Interpupillary Distance: 2-3/4" - 2-15/16"(47-75mm)•Field of View: 1-3/8" (35mm)•Working Distance: 4" (100mm)•Head Mounting Size: 3" (76mm) in diameter•Accessory Mounting Size: 1-7/8" (48mm female thread) in diameterPacking List:•One Trinocular Parfocal Stereo Zoom Head•One Pair of Extreme Widefield WH10X/22 Eyepieces•One Pair of Foldable Eye-Guards•User's Manual•Shipping Weight: 10 lbs

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 04:36:25 am
content: So $200 or so is atQuoteWhewWhy doesn't some one start a topic like "What microscope to buy - Money is no object"

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 05:23:21 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 06, 2015, 04:36:25 am$349, no stand but mount on a pole with duct tape, shine a flashlight and you're set.Not that much different than "should I get a used analog oscilloscope for $200?" and the answer is save another $200 and buy a Rigol 1054.Actually, the OP's selection is $329 including the stand and shipping - not too bad compared to an original target of about $250, or as said by KJDS "Man maths for the win"http://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SM-1BX-Professional-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B005MTKS4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449379223&sr=8-1&keywords=SM-1BXJust kidding, sorry for taking the thread off-topic....

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 05:37:49 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on November 14, 2015, 11:35:58 pmKE5FX, how are you liking the articulating boom? Does it stay pretty still when you are looking through the scope (maybe touching it a bit)?I saw a video that said the max height above the bench was 10" - is that what you are getting? (Although in the video I think the articulating boom was clamped to the bench - with the pole maybe the height can be increased?)Thx

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 07:38:02 am
content: Here is a video from a guy who paid less than $200 (current price looks like $185 including head, stand, light, and shipping) and then a review from another guy on Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B005C75IVM/ref=acr_search_see_all?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1A review on Amazon:I'm having a weird form of buyer's remorse - that I didn't buy this years ago!* UPDATE * Don't bother buying extra 5x eyepieces - they suck! The field of view shrinks leaving you with the same FOV as the 10x!I do electronics work and have long used magnifying visors (which remain absolutely indispensable for their wide field of view, convenience & portability) and have always meant to get around to buying a binocular microscope. I was to spend about $500 on a slightly fancier Amscope (still a great deal; friends have spent thousands on theirs) but noticed this very inexpensive puppy - with its huge working distance - and the reviews convinced me to give it a shot.Just unpacked it and WOW it's terrific value for money; doesn't feel cheap in the slightest; nice heavy base, the gooseneck LED light is bright and works well (a decent cost compromise compared to a more expensive ring light), the eyepiece comfort and image quality is excellent. Can't see myself ever using the 20x optics; 10x appears ample for SMD work; solder joints on 0402s and QFPs are very clearly visible. Most of all, the working distance is excellent; there's a ton of room for hot air / soldering iron. The relatively narrow field of view you get with microscopes means I'll probably still do a fair amount of soldering with my beloved magnifying visors but this scope looks to be extremely well suited for electronics work and ridiculously good value for less than $200. Highly recommended. Maybe I'll treat myself to a Metcal now :-)- only 3 out 61 reviews less than 4 stars and a fair number seem to be solderers$180 with 5x and 10xhttp://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE400X-Professional-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B0056X4RRS/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1449389133&sr=8-1&keywords=amscope+se+wf5x+wf10x

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 10:24:57 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 06, 2015, 05:37:49 amWorking distance is 6.5" in this setup:The boom is great -- like I said, it's just about my favorite feature. I can swing the microscope head completely out of the way, above the gear in the background. It is more than reasonably stable if you adjust the focus and zoom controls carefully and don't bump the table excessively. Under normal working conditions, the image is rock-steady at the highest magnification. I was worried that it would gradually sag like a cheap desk lamp and lose focus during lengthy viewing sessions, but that never happens.I use three bolted-together folding tables as a workbench, so I couldn't clamp the boom to a desk edge the way you're supposed to. Instead, I drilled holes in the base of the clamp and bolted it to the top of one of the brackets that's used to attach the tables to each other:If you actually installed it as directed, it would be even more stable than it is with this lashup.Parenthetically, I didn't know what "parfocal" meant until I read this thread. After fiddling with the eyepiece adjustments, which I thought were only for left-right eye correction, I was able to get it to stay well-focused through the entire zoom range. So thanks for that.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 11:54:51 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on December 06, 2015, 10:24:57 amSo your working distance is 6.5" but in your top photo it looks like you can get the articulating arm even still higher by raising it further up the pole?Your model is both simul-focal and parfocal?I think we have to thank mtdoc - he turned us on to parfocal in this thread.This is a nice short course on how to use parfocal in case anyone hasn't seen it:

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 12:31:44 pm
content: Ok, still trying to get past 101 to 102:This is a pretty basic tutorial by Amscope- helpful for any beginners (like me)In the part about parfocal it seems to advocate starting with focusing at the low magnification end and then moving to the high magnification end. However, in the roughly 1 minute video I posted previously on "The Why and How to Parfocal a Microscope" the presenter seems to stress the importance of starting with focusing at the high magnification end and then moving to the low magnification end. Not sure which is right or if I just mis-interpreted one or both of the videos.On a related front, the Amscope video shows how to make parfocal work on one of their SM series scopes. When you go to the Amscope web site it never specifically says that the SM series are parfocal. If you search for "parfocal" on the Amscope site it shows you scopes that clearly marked "parfocal" - but they seem to be the ZM series. Further confusing or maybe clarifying the matter, KEF5X - who I think has a SM series scope - indicates that by becoming aware of the parfocal capability and adjusting his lenses accordingly - was able to attain parfocal-ness (a new word).Still further, Amscope doesn't seem to offer a ZM (the officially labeled parfocal microscope) with the Simul-Focal feature (for simultaneous stereo viewing and digital image/video capture), but they do offer a SM series Simul-Focal - and if the SM series does do parfocal, then the SM series would seem to be advantaged over the ZM series in that it does both Simul-focal and parfocal. If so, what is the unique or distinguishing attribute of the ZM series?

author: moya034
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 01:26:19 pm
content: What I got out of the first video was that he was starting at high mag.The second video, they started out at low mag first, then went to high mag to "fine tune" it.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 01:38:52 pm
content: What my experience has been is that if you zoom in all the way to maximum magnification and focus there, you can then zoom out all the way and have the focus stay correct. A link that another forum member sent me suggests (1) setting each eyepiece to the standard position (amscope=silver ring) (2) zooming to max (3) adjusting focus (4) zooming to min (5) tweaking each eye piece for focus.http://www.microscope.com/education-center/how-to-guides/how-to-use-a-stereo-microscope/

author: moya034
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:35:59 pm
content: I found this really nice site that describes adjusting a B&L StereoZoom 4.http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/stereozoom/I also found a 0.5x lens since I want some more working distances out of my B&L. That will effectively give me 3.5-15x.http://www.microscopenet.com/auxiliary-objective-lens-bausch-lomb-microscope-d38mm-p-10170.html

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 05:53:15 pm
content: I'm sure there's a better/faster way to do it. But just to illustrate the whole "parfocal" thing.1. Zoom to highest magnification2. Focus with the knob, looking just through the left eye.3. Adjust the right eye with the eyepiece so both eyes are focused4. Zoom out.If the image is now out of focus, pay attention to whether you have to move the scope up or down to focus.Now adjust the LEFT/both eyepieces a half a turn in/out and repeat steps 1-4. You will find one direction will make it better, one direction will make it worse. It will take a very fine adjustment, once you get closer.You can't just buy a microscope that is parfocal for you. And if it comes "perfectly parfocal," all it takes is a small turn to the eyepieces to make it NOT parfocal. If your eyes have significantly different vision and you don't wear corrective lenses, you can't have a perfectly parfocal stereo microscope for both eyes, anyway. If you're paying more for a microscope, you ought to be paying for higher clarity/light transmission, bigger exit pupil, bigger FOV, less distortion, better color correction, better construction, better stand/lighting. Not for a parfocal "feature."Once dialed in, always focus on higher magnification, first, when you want to zoom in/out. When you start at 3x and zoom into 20X, you may "lose focus" simply because your depth of focus is decreasing, and you weren't actually focused on your object of interest as well as you thought. At 3X, your effective depth of focus might be a quarter inch. Anything in that zone is focused. At 20x, your depth of focus might be a quarter of a millimeter. At 3x, there's almost no way for you to distinguish if you are focused properly on the surface of a pin. At 3x, you can easily see the pcb, the pin, the top of the IC's. It's ALL in focus. So there's two things to watch for when deciding if your microscope is "not parfocal."

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 07:53:14 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 06, 2015, 05:53:15 pmThat statement is like saying, you can't just buy a 6.5 digit multimeter that is accurate for you.Parfocal is a property of the microscope. sure it needs to be set up correctly - primarily by setting up head height above working surface but there really is such a thing as a scope that is parfocal and one that is not.Electro Fan - When I first brought up the topic of the benefit of a parfocal scope it was in contrast to the concept of simulfocal which was being discussed - and which is only needed if one is trying work using the scope eyepieces while simultaneously shooting video - something very few will need to do. Even without a simulfocal, trinocular scope, you can shoot in focus video (working by video feed) or in focus still photos using an eyepiece camera adapter (or camera port if it is trinocular).I think part of the confusion here is that even a "non parfocal scope" can be adjusted to be close to parfocal or " parfocal for that scope" (using the methods discussed in videos,etc) The issue is that no amount of adjusting will make a non parfocal scope perfectly parfocal. Having spent hours in the past adjusting a teaching lab full of student scopes to be as close to parfocal as possible, I speak from experience.Now it's probably the case that for low mag soldering and general electronics work being close to parfocal is just fine and for the average user the lack of true parfocality would not be noticed. I've only ever used my one, truly parfocal scope for soldering but my reference is from past experience needing to position sub-micron glass electrode tips into nerve and muscle cells which required repeated zooming in from low mag to high mag as the electrode is advanced.I suspect that with Amscopes, only the ZM scopes are truly parfocal and they don't advertise the SM scopes as such to avoid returns, etc. BUT from user reports on this forum, it sounds like the SM scopes can be adjusted to be close enough to parfocal to be just fine for soldering SMD, etc.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 09:37:27 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 06, 2015, 11:54:51 amThe working distance is just the clearance between the subject and the bottom of the LED illuminator when the subject is in focus. It doesn't have anything to do with the range of the articulating arm:... except that if I were to raise it much farther up the pole, I would no longer be able to bring the head down far enough to reach its working distance.The way it's positioned now, I don't have to raise or lower the clamp on the pole to put the microscope anywhere I want.QuoteIt's only advertised as simul-focal, not parfocal. The camera is annoying and difficult to use at best, simul-focal or not. Fortunately I hardly ever need the camera.Quote from: mtdocAgreed, that's probably the case. The SM-8TPW2-144S-5M that I have is "close enough" to parfocal now that I've tweaked it but I can't swear that the focus stays perfectly linear over the entire zoom range, and they don't explicitly advertise it as such. Not a huge deal for what I use it for, but very good to know.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 10:10:11 pm
content: Another option is to try and find an old Zeiss GSZ with the boom stand as I have here. I think I paid just over £300 for this a couple of years ago.I would expect that the performance will be on a par with the Amscope if I take into account the age of my unit. I did have to adjust/service it when I first got it as I think it was knocked badly out of alignment by the courier company.I prefer to have a separate area for inspection and SMD soldering so I have the microscope on a desk that is mainly for construction work. I've tried various systems for magnifiers on my main RF workbench but they always get in the way. I like to work on a fairly clear bench as much as possible and I find that magnifiers can be very annoying when they are not needed. I don't have the space to fit the impressive system that KE5FX uses.The boom stand has various adjusters allowing the head to be swung and tilted as required. It's really easy to swing it out of the way when it is not needed. The white ducting is part of my crude homebrew fume extractor system

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 10:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 06, 2015, 07:53:14 pmmtdoc - I'm with you on all that. Thanks!BTW, it's very cool about your experience with positioning sub-micron electrodes into nerve and muscle cells with a scope and presumably your hands and/or some other instruments. It's pretty amazing the skill and technology humankind can bring to the field of healthcare. Slightly off topic but related, I once saw a patient examined before neck surgery and the technician said they were measuring nerve impulses before the surgery to get a baseline for how the nerves were performing. When I asked about the baseline measurement I think the technician said they wanted to narrow it down to a few milliseconds. On the one hand it's pretty impressive that human nerve communications can even be measured on the other hand it makes a lot of the stuff that gets discussed in this forum also pretty neat given that we talk in terms of micro, nano, and sometimes pico seconds. No doubt, somewhere at the intersection of biology and electronics is a new frontier - but that's another thread.Back to parfocality, here is my (very long) take.After reading everyone's comments I'm pretty sure "parfocality" (I think that's a better world than "parfocalness") is an attribute of any good zooming optical system. It probably occurs to a greater or lesser degree based on a microscope’s design and it might occur with some unit to unit variation based on the manufacturing quality and condition of a particular scope.Given everyone's feedback I have a strong hunch that Amscope’s SM series has a significant degree of parfocality. Perhaps the ZM line is even nicer in this respect, or maybe it's largely a marketing distinction that Amscope uses to help differentiate the ZM series. In any event, I’m inclined to think the SM series can exhibit parfocality - especially to the extent it is used properly as described in these recent posts.After starting to get my head around this it reminds me of a couple experiences: one I had with a field scope and one with photography. – Feel free to straighten me out an any of this. ?In photography with a zoom lens you can of course control the zoom level. As you zoom to nearer objects (with a shorter focal length in mm) you get a wider field of view; as you zoom to a more distant object you get a longer focal length (in mm). For example, with a 35mm camera (which is a potentially confusing use of “mm”) and a 50mm lens focal length zoom setting (ie, somewhat “zoomed out”) you can take a picture of most of a person’s body in the same room; at 200mm (ie, relatively “zoomed in”) you can get a portrait of just a person’s head and shoulders across the street. Throughout the range a modern camera and zoom lens will retain focus – so without a doubt a good camera zoom lens system effectively maintains parfocality but with today's autofocus lenses we don't think about it much. (On a microscope we can zoom but there is no autofocus – at least on these “entry” level scopes we are discussing, I think.)Aside from all that, on a SLR camera you can also control the aperture. As the aperture becomes more narrow (with a larger f stop) the depth of field increases. At f22 you get a relatively long view with things in focus across the depth of field. At f2.8 you get almost no depth of field but a very wide aperture. The benefit of the wide aperture is that it lets in more light - and sometimes you have no choice but to go with the widest aperture so as to get enough light - otherwise you would have a dark (under exposed) image. (Some photographers also like the shallow depth of field because it effectively blurs out the background so the background doesn’t distract from the subject of interest – this doesn’t seem to apply to microscopy.) By f1.8 you might get a person's eyes in focus but their nose and maybe their ears might be out of focus because of the very shallow depth of field. With a highly automated camera that sets the aperture and the shutter speed to adjust the exposure and simultaneously sets the focus you might never notice some of these things. And all of it is somewhat further over-ridden in a digital camera with Auto ISO that trades-off increased "grain" (less sharpness) for more sensitivity to light. All of this, plus a database of thousands of scene types stuck on a chip inside a digital camera that allows the camera to "intelligently" pick one of maybe 50 spots in the FOV to focus upon makes the DSLR a pretty interesting tool - both for taking photos and for learning photography and optical system basics. Having said all that (while there are similarities and dissimilarities between DSLRs and microscopes) the key take away here is that parfocality is best set by keeping in mind and targeting the preferred depth of field – so as to enable the sharpest focus on the area of interest. I think the steps given by KL27x make good sense – and he points out that (unlike a SLR or DSLR camera) you have the added step of getting the left and right eye pieces dialed-in.(This point about the left and right eyes is pretty important. As a test, look at something about the size of a quarter across the room. Now make a circle with your thumb and index finger on one hand (it doesn’t matter which hand). Hold the thumb and finger circle in front of you about a foot from your face and with both eyes open line up your view through the circle to the object across the room. Cover one eye with your other hand. Did the object stay lined up inside the circle? Hold your hand still and cover the other eye. If you did this properly the object was only lined up with one eye – that is your dominant eye. If you do this several/many times a day at some point you will probably see that occasionally the other eye is dominant. I’m not sure why, but eye dominance shifts occasionally – some kind of biorhythm? Regardless, given eye dominance and the fact that one eye might have different vision characteristics than the other it’s hard to get an optical device to really work to the optimum extent possible without accounting for these effects. Further, the ability to move the two viewing lenses closer or farther away from one another (the interpupillary distance) based on your eye width will also impact how well you can see through the device.)All this might seem obvious, but here is my second experience (don’t laugh too much): I visited a friend with a field scope. It's like a combination of binoculars (used for looking across a field vs. toward the planets and stars) and a telescope (only one barrel). I think it was some combination of Leica, Leitz, Zeiss? Very nice optics, I'm sure. It sits on a tripod in his house and looks out through a window over a lake. One day after having used the scope over perhaps a dozen different visits during which I'd casually made a few adjustments here and there the ability to achieve parfocality dawned on me. It kind of blew me away that the capability had been sitting inside this scope all along and I had never realized it. Of course, until now with this thread, I didn't realize that what I tripped across was "parfocality" - but it was amazing to me how I could look across a lake and see the maybe 2"-3” address numbers by the front door of a house - which was achieved by controlling both the zoom and the focus with a very precise control over the depth of field - and then I could pan to a large flag waving on top of a very tall flag pole and now - by becoming aware of the ability to control depth of field as well as zoom- I could control the scope so that I could see the stitches in the flag and adjust the scope to deal with the changing depth of field caused by the flag blowing in the wind. It was very impressive to find this capability latent in the scope. It was at this point that I realized the interplay between all the controls – I just didn’t know at the time that I was experiencing “parfocalilty”.So, long story short, I don't yet get the terminology of microscopes. Since I don't have one I'm not even sure what controls are available or where they are on the device or how to control them. I have a hunch that while you can zoom and focus I'm not sure yet about what other control you might have over aperture and depth of field, and to what degree you can control the equivalent of photographic exposure (via illumination?). So it's hard for me to know what's what with a good microscope until I get my eyes and hands on one - but I can believe that a lot is possible. And for sure, talking with you guys is very valuable - it's a bummer to spend $ with no clue or bad clues. Fortunately his forum is very good at helping avoid buyer's remorse.With respect to illumination I have a hunch that good illumination can make a significant difference. Experience with photography has shown that along with subject composure proper lighting is perhaps the most important. Probably it would be good to have more than one light source to control shadows. I'm not sure yet how important color temperature is - I think closer to 3k degrees Kelvin might be better than 6k but for soldering maybe it's no big deal if you can live with blue-ish. I'm not a big fan of lights that cause excessive heat; I've heard that LEDs are increasingly becoming available in lower color temperature so a couple of those to control direction and keep the heat down and reliability up might be good.The main thing I take from all this is that parfocality is likely to be a valuable attribute and that parafocality exists to some meaningful degree in Amscope microscopes. The ability to zoom out and get oriented, pan around (either by moving the object or maybe the head if you have a flexible boom), and then quickly/easily zoom in to see the area of interest with detail and clarity while retaining focus would seem to make the difference between enjoying the experience and fighting with the tool. However, at the end of the day I'm sure it's like photography in general - the camera doesn't make good pictures (well, now they do) - but a great photographer can take a great photo with almost any camera. So if I don't know how to solder a microscope will be of limited help, of course. But I’m guessing that even if someone knows how to solder that soldering under a microscope might take some extra/different skills. It’s hard to know without first experiencing soldering under a microscope but I can see (that's a pun) that a decent microscope could potentially be really beneficial for soldering, especially SMDs.Thanks to everyone here for the info and advice on microscopes and for the collaborative and enjoyable forum blogging.EF

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 10:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on December 06, 2015, 09:37:27 pmIt's hard to tell if your bench is outside, or if you have a great window view of a forest, or if you have a very large Christmas tree in your lab - any which way, it all looks great!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 12:35:58 am
content: QuoteNonparfocal zoom lenses are made for compact cameras and such with autofocus, so that they can be made very compact. Maybe for specific purposes, but there would be little advantage for that in a stereomicroscope.QuoteMicroscopes have a fixed focal distance. The distance between the work and the objective is adjusted by the focusing knob, lol. Raising the work surface just means your scope will be raised the same amount to get into focus, and it will not change anything else. If this changed anything, your scope could only be parfocal when viewing an object of a specific height.A parfocal zoom lens is not complicated. MOST camera zoom lenses are parfocal. Most binoculars. Even $10.00 rifle scopes, and these are very simple devices. A decidedly NOT parfocal lens is typically the exception and primarily for compact size in some cameras and telescopes. By giving up parfocus, you can cram the lenses closer together. If a stereomicrocope used a non-parfocal lens setup, it would be there for a reason and touted as a feature.FWIW, my Amscope was pretty much parfocal for me out of the box. As previously stated, it should take a little fine tuning for your individual eyesight... not your working height. This is just tuning. It's not a parlor trick to make a lens sorta parfocal. And it's done by adjusting the distance between the objective and the eyepiece. At higher magnification it would be impractical to just MAKE a microscope that is parfocal by default; the focal distance is so specific it must be ALLOWED for by a range of adjustment, because man can't just make something that accurate (and also there must be adjustment for an individual's eyesight, in this regard.). Convenviently, this is an adjustment that is a standard feature on a stereomicroscope.You might think it takes asymmetrical gearing or lenses or little elves inside a Leica that make it parfocal from the way this feature is being portrayed in this thread.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 01:25:44 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 06, 2015, 10:51:36 pmBig window.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 01:50:54 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on December 07, 2015, 01:25:44 amThe wallpaper in my workroom has branches and leaves in the pattern but it isn't quite the same as the real thing

author: ShreveCC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 02:50:57 am
content: If your working on circuits on a time to time basis...This is what I use. It works well for me on the time to time soldering\inspection task. I matched up the microscope with the video by a sticker alignment marker, so that where I am pointing my soldering iron it is in the focus of the microscope camera, and than watch my soldering on the video monitor. Its a nice balance on field of view to magnification, and it is in real-time - no computer needed with this model. A cheap and fair "hobby grade" method.http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-3-LCD-Monitor-Display-200X-Digital-Microscope-Endoscope-AV-Video-TV-Camera-/321860778823?hash=item4af065bb47:g:7xEAAOSwU9xUQKgi

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 06:08:39 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 06, 2015, 10:36:12 pmYeah - that was before I went back to school (med school in my 30s). Off topic but semi electronics related in that electrophysiology - that is intracellular recordings of nerve and muscle electrical potentials is pretty neat stuff. Glass micro-pipettes (small hollow glass cylinders) are heated in the middle and pulled apart to get finely tapered tips in the 1 micron and below range. The glass electrodes are then backfilled with KCL solution and a fine platinum wire inserted into it and the signal fed into an oscilloscope. (I believe now they have the ability to make fine all metallic electrodes as well).As you can imagine, inserting one of these into a nerve or muscle cell is not easy and requires a set up with an isolation table (to isolate it from any vibrations) with a stereo zoom scope and the electrode held and positioned with a micro-manipulator. As the electode is advanced using one hand on the micro-manipulator and the other hand used to zoom the scope - you eventually get to high magnifications - much higher than used for electronics. Being truly parfocal becomes important because any change in focus and you loose track of the location of tip of the electrode relative to the cell membrane. All this is done inside a faraday cage as the recordings are in the millivolt and below range using voltage clamp and current clamp techniques to isolate different aspects of the ionic currents involved Even more impressive is the the "patch clamping" of individual ion channels in the cell membrane to measure each channels ionic current (in the pico-Amp range!) using electrodes that form a giga-ohm seal around the channels at the surface of the cell membrane without penetrating it.Anyways - fun stuff and now that I am pursuing electronics as a hobby, I appreciate the electronics aspect of it more than I did back then when I was only focused on the biology.BTW - I'm not sure what's going on with the Amscopes but in general eyepiece adjustments are used to adjust for differences between visual acuity between eyes - a glasses wearer who takes them off to use a scope, etc. As far as I'm aware it should not be part of any adjustment to try and make a scope parfocal - at least not with any of the scopes I've had experience with.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 08:28:56 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on December 06, 2015, 10:10:11 pmI wonder what the relationship is between Zeiss Jena and Askania?I bought an Askania GSZ and it looks identical to the Zeiss GSZ.Askania also services the old Zeiss Jena microscopes.http://www.askania.de/data/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=158&Itemid=1&lang=enThis is my unit. It is very good and comparable to Leica models at work. All the adjustments work very smooth:

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:15:04 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 05, 2015, 02:42:12 amAlan, did you give any consideration to a .3x Barlow?(Seems like that would take the .7-4.5 with the 10x to 2.1-13.5? At 1x the scope could go from 7-45 in case more above 13.5 is needed.)Thx, Ef---some info....I spoke to Amscope - they claim that the ZM is not fundamentally better IQ than the SM. It does have slightly different optics which accounts for their Objective: 0.67-4.5X; so with 10x the ZM gets to 6.7-45; then you could throw on the 0.5 or 0.3 Barlow; with the 0.3 you get to 2.01 vs. 2.1 with the SM, so not a big deal in favor of the ZM. Also, they don't seem to make a big claim for the ZM being all that much more parfocal than the SM - so I think maybe the marketing guys just decided to use it as a differentiator in the ZM write-ups. They were pretty candid and said that the degree of parfocality was moderate but that some refocusing would probably be needed from one end to the other; however they thought that from roughly 3-10x the SM (and the ZM) should hold focus pretty well. The eye piece distance separator/adjustor mechanism on the SM is a little different than on the ZM; might be better on the SM. The ZM Barlows are also twice the price of the SM Barlows. And the ZM doesn't offer a model with Simul-focal, just regular Trifocal. So, except for slightly more working distance (but not much more) on the ZM, the SM looks like a better deal almost across the board.I think I'm headed toward a SM .7-4.5 with 10x and a 0.3 Barlow. Last question is which stand?The articulating boom is hammering the budget but it sure looks like a lot of flexibility to get to different parts of the bench, get low or high (in case you need to get above a circuit board vice holder), and store up and out of the way.Any thoughts that might prevent buyer's remorse welcome

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:23:32 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 02:15:04 amI've thought about it. If my extrapolation is correct, it would require another 0.928" of height which I'm not wild about, but it might be awesome. I might try once I get the 5X eyepieces returned for credit.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:35:04 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 02:15:04 amThat's interesting. Good to hear they are being honest about the lack of true parfocality. My experience 20 yrs ago whendemoing inexpensive stereo scopes for classroom purchase was that the sales rep would claim their scope was parfocal and then when challenged to prove it they would spend 20 minutes trying to adjust it to get it to be parfocal (across all magnification levels) and then give up and admit it wasn't!I think it makes sense that for electronics at 3-10x mag, full mag range parfocality is not critical.QuoteI can't help you with which stand except to say that by nature the fully articulating stands will not be as stable as a good boom stand. Any bump will be apparent. It's just a trade off of stability versus desk space, etc.Though I have my doubts about the long term durability of the Amscopes, based on the many good reviews I've seen here and elsewhere they seem be provide excellent value and their shortcomings not a big deal for the relatively low demands of soldering and general electronics work. I doubt you'll have buyers remorse!

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:40:09 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 08, 2015, 02:23:32 amI'm still getting my scope 101's and my math figured out - but I think a 0.7 would require more working space (vs. a 0.5) while a 0.3 would add more working space (vs. a 0.5) - I might have this goofed up....But if this is correct and if we wanted more working space then a 0.3 would be a slight improvement over a 0.5; on the other hand if we wanted less height (maybe to keep the scope low to fit with a seated or standing viewing position) then the 0.7 would be the direction to go. Yes/no? Thx- so maybe it depends on whether we are trying to enhance (generally increase) the working space or the adjust the viewing height (which might need to go up or down depending on the seated or standing viewing arrangement)?- I've been trying to add working space (from the board to the scope) - maybe I better start figuring out the viewing height...

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:53:48 am
content: You are right Electro Fan, I want less magnification, but I don't want more working space (scope located higher).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 05:04:15 am
content: So I read up on "parfocal".Concerning camera zoom lenses, parfocal lenses are special and not the norm. This is because they have to be parfocal throughout a range of focal distances. This is the part that takes magic.A microscope operates at a single focal distance. There IS a distance at which this lens will be parfocal. As long as you adjust the eyepiece so that the microscope is focusing at its parfocal distance, it will be parfocal.Concerning compound microscopes, which operate at a specific distance, and which do not zoom, "parfocus" comes into play only regarding the implementation of standards. So that different objective in the microscope can retain focus when you switch them in/out. 45mm standard, or 60mm stands, etc. This will still require some adjustment of the objectives in the head.I'm calling bogus on "parfocal" as a "feature" of a stereomicroscope. They are parfocal. Not some. All.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 05:34:14 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 08, 2015, 05:04:15 amI think you are stuck on semantics. It is not black and white - there are different degrees of how close a scope is to being perfectly parfocal but those differences are huge for high demand tasks. I guess you can argue semantics if you'd like but in fields where high precision focus across a large range of magnification is necessary, there is an absolute difference between what one would consider a parfocal stereo microscope and one that isn't. Maybe things have changed in the 20 years since I was responsible for purchasing large numbers of stereo microscopes, Maybe now even the cheap ones are "parfocal". But that was not true then and I doubt it is true now (and Amscope has apparently admitted that to Electro Fan).Forget what you may have read. How many different stereo microscopes do you have experience with?

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:15:27 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 08, 2015, 02:23:32 amAlan, any chance you can lay a ruler down across your field of view and measure how may millimeters you can see at a few working distances with a few lens and zoom settings? Or maybe just see what the maximum number of millimeters across is that you can see? Thanks, EF

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:23:12 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 08, 2015, 02:35:04 amIs that like any bump on the bench will travel down the arm? Or is that like any bump of the eye pieces while viewing will move the eye pieces/head and the articulating arm and therefore the scope's view of the object? Seems like eye-hand coordination while viewing and soldering (without being able to see your hands) would be hard enough - if even a small touch of the eye piece will move the whole thing maybe an articulating arm isn't right for soldering? Maybe it's good for inspection only?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:15:14 am
content: QuoteI think yes, semantics are important.As far as my eyes can tell, and up to the maximum magnification, my scope is parfocal, and I doubt it is because of sheer coincidence.Since there is no alternative lens for a stereomicroscope, such as a "varifocal" zoom lens exists for cameras, the term "parfocal" is meaningless in the context of a stereomicroscope, unless it is defined with technical specifications. +- X diopters at through x range, etc. Saying the scope is parfocal is no more informative than saying "this scope is higher quality than that one."QuoteOne. I have no problem talking out of my rear, and I'm a glutton for punishment. But yeah, maybe Amscope is just selling more than they're advertising.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:37:49 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 07:23:12 amI think it probably depends on the quality of the articulating arm. I've been tempted to get an articulating arm for my Unitron but I'm wary of the stability issue. The ones I've tried in the past tended to move with bumping of the eye piece or of the bench they're attached to - but I'd think you'd probably learn to avoid that. Doesn't Louis the guy in the videos have one? - I seem to recall seeing his move sometimes - though I've only watched a few of his videos. I've no experience with Amscope hardware. Maybe one of the users here can comment. There's a lot of force placed on the pivot points of those articulating arms given the weight of the microscope head and the leverage created by the arms, so even if it is "tight" initially, I suspect that over time it would loosen up and become less stable - but maybe not?

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:27:10 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 08, 2015, 08:37:49 amIt's fine. Trust me.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 12:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 07:15:27 amSure. With the 10X eyepieces, 0.7 (minimum zoom), and the 0.5X barlow, I think it is around 62mm or 63mm. Let me know what you would like measured and I'll do it.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:14:55 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 08, 2015, 12:59:26 pmThanks. Does that give you about 8" of working distance? And therefore at 4" you will see about 31mm?

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:24:46 pm
content: These Carl Zeiss Jena (once East German Zeiss) stereo microscopes are excellent and lesser known by the Western microscope market. This makes them a potential great value.BerniceQuote from: plazma on December 07, 2015, 08:28:56 am

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:31:48 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 06:14:55 pmSee my picture above,It is 6 3/16" between the bottom of the barlow lens and the top of the pcb.It is 5" between the bottom of the glass protector and the top of the pcb.Quote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 06:14:55 pmAt minimum zoom (0.7 * 0.5 * 10 = 3.5X) I can see just over 60mm.At maximum zoom (4.5 * 0.5 * 10 = 22.5X) I can see just barely over 9mm.Maybe I misunderstand the question, but if you lower it to 4", it will be out of focus. The amount of being out of focus is lesser at minimum zoom, but it is still out of focus, so you wouldn't want to use it that way. There seems to be a perfect height that you want to be at to be parfocal.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:36:05 pm
content: Have an articulated arm with a Wild M7A on it. This is the original stereo microscope articulating arm with high precision bronze sleeve bearings that have precise fit, nicely machined parts and powered coated finish. It has the articulating head for the microscope which allows various movements of the attached microscope. It is FAR better constructed and more precise in every way than the China imitation-copy.It is NOT stable enough for my expectations beyond 20X. There is simply too much vibration transmitted even with the post solidly bolted to the bench and the weight of the Wild M7A will tend to add stability. The arm is convent to use allowing position the microscope most at most any location on the work surface. This is the trade off. Since magnification of 20X or higher is not often used, it is an acceptable trade off.The ergo head on the M7A gives more working distance and better sitting position. This is the same Wild stereo microscope head used on various Wild surgical microscopes as they encounter the same problem of working distance and work position for the surgeon. Wild also makes an angle wedge that fits between the microscope body and head allowing the angle of the head-eye pieces to be adjusted to fit the user. Eye pieces are high resolution, excellent color correction with low distortion and wide field.BerniceQuote from: mtdoc on December 08, 2015, 08:37:49 am

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:44:47 pm
content: Another way to deal with microscope to subject clearance. Use an in-line microscope head with the microscope and lighting set at an variable angle. This changes the view of the specimen which can be better or worst depending on imaging needs. It does free up work space in the vertical axis which can make a significant difference in user position and how work is done under the microscope.Wild M7A with inline head on a home brew swing arm. The M7A is mounted on a pivoting Bausch & Lomb focus mount that allows angle and swing adjustments. Lighting in this set up is via fiber optic on the B&L mount. A ring light can be used if needed. Direct fiber optic light gives higher contrast to the specimen with shadows occurring at the bottom of the specimen. The ring light tends to produce softer and mostly shadow free lighting.Bernice

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:43:49 pm
content: QuoteYes, your scope looks the same as mine apart from the logo. I think my scope has seen a hard life because it had clearly been apart a few times and some fastener thread points were broken and were replaced with self tapping screws. Not a good sign...However, I was able to strip it all down and realign it to get what appear to me to be perfect optics in terms of stereo alignment. I had to adjust it in several places by loosening and shifting stuff inside the scope that I didn't really understand. But the end result is pretty goodThe hardest part was cleaning all the lenses and the prism to get them smear free. It took several attempts/techniques. It would be interesting to compare my scope to a good example to see how close I am to the true potential of this microscope.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:08:54 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 08, 2015, 06:31:48 pmThanks - no worries on misunderstanding my question - you probably understood my question right - I think it was just a goofy question- I'm still learning my optics stuff - since you are doing much better than me on the math, what would you guess the viewable distance across (vs 60mm) and working distance (vs 6 3/16") would be if you substituted the 0.5 with a 0.3?Any chance the answers would be 100mm and 10.9375"? (Thanks for the measuring and calculating.)Thanks again

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:13:07 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on December 08, 2015, 06:36:05 pmBernice is the arm you are using stable enough for viewing while soldering at 10x? Or will any little touch of the eyepiece keep you from viewing what you are soldering?

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:17:07 pm
content: I've only been extrapolating, but I think the 0.3 would give near 100mm. I think my estimate for how much taller was 0.922 or 0.924" or something like that. You are tempting me to try this lens!

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:43:51 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on December 08, 2015, 08:17:07 pmHow to minimize buyer's remorse... let someone else go firstNot that anyone would be soldering much on an Arduino but as a frame of reference the 60mm of the current 0.5 Barlow setup is almost enough to fully see an Arduino Uno. If the 0.3 Barlow gets to 100mm that would be enough to almost see two Arduino Mega 2560s side by side. Clearly, Uno's have nothing to do with the discussion but for a microscope newbie it might be helpful to have a sense of what is viewable at some such setting.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:55:07 pm
content: Please don't copy this into a new "quoted" post until someone confirms it's correct - so as not to propagate bad info. Thx- This is an attempt to show the Magnification Ranges and Working Distances for some of the Barlow Lenses that can be used with the Amscope 0.7-4.5 x 10 microscopes.- If it is correct (50/50 at best, I'd give it), it shows that with a 0.3 Barlow you could go from 2.1X to 13.5X - which might be pretty good for soldering. You could then use a 2.0 Barlow to pick up at 14X all the way to 90X (for uses other than soldering).- The WD" numbers on the right are inches of working distance assuming that the 0.5 Barlow gives 8" as per the Amscope specs - but that doesn't seem to correspond quite right with Alan's experiences. So actual mileage may vary.- If someone can correct this I'll edit it to reflect better info. Thx

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:29:28 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on December 08, 2015, 06:36:05 pmTransmitted fromwhere? Are people using these things in a train yard or a highway construction zone?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 09:32:04 pm
content: Bernice's pictures in this thread continue to give me German microscope envy5 few years ago when I was looking for a used stereo scope, I told myself I would only spend $200. I planned to use it for showing my kids some stuff - looking at pondwater, insects, maybe dissecting a frog, etc. Only later as I got back into electronics did I realize I would want it for soldering, etc. My next microscope purchase will probably be a used Zeiss compound scope for more home biology fun.The stereo scope I bought was a Unitron ZSB. Unitron is not one of the "big 4" but I knew from past experience that their ZSB scopes where high quality American made scopes and being a lesser known brand - potentially found at high value prices on eBay.Getting back to the OPs request:Here is a Unitron ZSB with ring light included listed for $210 on eBayIt is the same scope I have and a very good value anywhere under $300 IMHO. Mag with 10x eyepieces is 7 - 45X. The knurled zoom ring works butter smooth and I find it to be easier to make fine mag adjustments than more standard side mounted zoom knobs. I find the working distance as is fine for soldering but0.5 Barlow lenses are available for it.Aplologies for the too large and slightly out of focus eBay listing pic(I couldn't stand it. Put a better stock photo in)

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 10:02:26 pm
content: Mtdoc, yeah me too, but the Chinese scope I bought really works well for what I do. Great optics are very nice, I have some really nice binoculars and you can see a difference between them and the cheaper stuff. When doing search and rescue the German binoculars let me see things the lighter and cheaper ones didn't, but I don't need that much quality to solder and see the circuit. Cheaper and functional works for me here.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 10:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: Fat on December 08, 2015, 10:02:26 pmYep, that's the crux of the issue. As fun as it is to obsess about the finer points of microscopy, soldering does not really require super high quality optics -- that is as long as image alignment it good so that you don't end up with eye fatigue and headaches.The long term durability of the cheap Chinese scopes though is another question....

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 10:17:20 pm
content: QuoteIn terms of lens quality I agree. But when I was realigning the internals of my Zeiss scope the most important thing for me was to get effortless stereo action. It took a lot of fiddling to get mine such that I can look into it and my eyes don't have to do any work to see in stereo. I've not used that many stereo microscopes but in my experience, a less than perfect stereo action can quickly fatigue my eyes. The scopes at work are set up as a compromise for all users and I find that my eyes/brain have to 'work' to produce an aligned image. If I use these scopes for any length of time my eyes go a bit funny once I look away from the scope as they have to undo the 'correction' they learned for the microscope.So I tried very hard to set my Zeiss up to be perfect for my eyes. I can just look into it and see effortless stereo alignment

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 10:24:30 pm
content: My Zeiss GSZ came with the Zeiss/KL 1500 cold light ring which works very well. However, this light ring is really at its best for looking at natural stuff rather than electronics because it produces a warm natural light.For critical PCB inspection work I use the ring light in conjunction with a little homemade LED light wand that I can wave and hold at an angle. I find that the angled (and cool and harsh) light from the LED can help me spot tiny debris or imperfections much better than the soft lighting from the ring light on its own.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 08:01:57 am
content: Stereo microscopes are not really needed for most SMD soldering.A reasonable quality ring LED magnifier lamp works fine (most are made in China and they are good enough) for most SMD soldering work. These are typically 3X to 5X with wide field of view, good enough optical performance (they are full of optical issues, but it really does not matter in this application). One side benefit from using a magnifier lamp for soldering, it can help block those annoying soldering fumes.IMO, save a bunch of funds, get a reasonable quality magnifier lamp and forgo the stereo microscope. They are easier to use, lower cost, gets the job done and often on an articulating arm which has often has enough adjustment to make them perfectly good for what needs to be done.**When then need for 6X and greater appears, I'm absolutely uncompromising on microscope performance, Nothing except the very best will do. This is what happens when one develops a lot of experience of using microscopes over a broad range of applications and using all the possible microscope's capabilities and lighting options get the best possible image, high resolution microscope images goes a long way to help solve problems only state of the art levels of microscope imaging performance can solve. Much like learning to interpret a time or frequency domain display, it is a learned and developed skill to fully understand the image-display presented to the user.Beyond the optical performance of high quality microscopes, there the simple pure pleasure of using a mechanical instrument of high precision that is design and built to last decades upon decades of daily use with reasonable care.BerniceQuote from: mtdoc on December 08, 2015, 10:15:27 pm

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 08:28:42 am
content: 10X is more often than not is too much magnification for SMD soldering work. This is needed only for the smallest SMD parts. 10X and above is often good enough to work on microwave or chip hybrids if the microscope has good optical performance.I'll use the magnifier lamp much more for soldering SMD stuff than the microscope.Big plus for the microscope on articulating arm is positioning. The arm allows putting the microscope most any where on the work space. I'll use it to look into stuff I'm working on as needed. The Wild M7A on the end of the arm has a number of optical add ons that allows alterations in working distance and magnification range. The ergo head allows several inches of microscope to specimen without the need for a high chair.As for stability, articulation arms are a mechanical system with s self resonate frequency. Bumping it, moving it, vibrations transmitted via the work bench excite the arm's SRF cause it to vibrate unit the movement damps out. At 10X it is not too bad at all, quite useable. At the higher magnifications, vibrations absolutely affect image quality, when the microscope has high optical performance these tiny movements are magnified. If the entire set up does not move and all is stable with no bumps to the work bench the image can be some what acceptable. Keep in mind at 50X, the image viewed is down to tiny fractions of a mm.. Now consider what any mechanical movement can affect the overall image system.Examples of hoe bad the vibrations problems can get is when microscope magnifications go up to a few hundred to low thousands of X. These microscope systems are often on isolated optical tables to stop vibrations from being transmitted into the microscope. Nikon once made the Ultra Micro Nikor for photo mask production. It is specifically designed for UV light, shorter the light wave length, the higher the resolution... kinda like higher sampling rate. The folks at Nikon had to wait until the dead of night when traffic and trains stopped running to test these Untra Micro Nikkor lenses. This is how much vibrations can affect optical performance and overall results.BerniceQuote from: Electro Fan on December 08, 2015, 08:13:07 pm

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 08:41:21 am
content: Wild Microscopes are made in Switzerland , not Germany. Leitz, Zeiss are German Zeiss Jena was East German Zeiss before the "wall" came down and Zeiss East & West was re-united. Got a rather interesting Zeiss SV8 stereo microscope that I'll post images of later. It has a polarized bright field light system and camera system. This Zeiss microscope is used when highly reflective objects need to be looked at under the microscope. Polarized light is also useful for gem stone/crystal work.Unitron is another lesser known high quality microscopes. Another is Reichert (made in Austria). They are known for Metallurgical microscopes. Another lesser known name in high quality microscopes is Vickers made in the UK.Have not even touched the great brands from Japan like Nikon, Olympus and Meiji.BerniceQuote from: mtdoc on December 08, 2015, 09:32:04 pm

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 09:25:02 am
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on December 09, 2015, 08:41:21 amLol. OK, I guess I should have said I have Germanic microscope envy. I have my eye on a used Zeiss compound microscope - so I may scratch that itch soon.QuoteYes, in the 80s and 90s I spent a lot of time with Nikon and Olympus scopes in various neurobiology labs. I spent about 3 years in the early 90s of almost daily use of a top of the line Nikon stereo scope in my role running a neurobiology teaching lab at UC Berkeley. I don't recall what the model was. I do recall that we spent $10K on the scope and lighting. That scope made it difficult for me to be satisfied with any lesser scope since.But I have to say, I'm finding my $200 eBay Unitron ZSB a pleasure to use for SMD soldering and much preferable to my ring light magnifier or my Optivisor.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 01:13:19 pm
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on December 09, 2015, 08:01:57 amIf you can't do the job with a standard microscope and require 'nothing but the best will do' this is a handicap, not a skill.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 03:02:23 pm
content: My thought was when I ordered the microscope was if it doesn't help or improve my soldering, it was going back. Even with some of the original issues of having to get a taller chair and lowering it more, it was worth it. I can clearly see what I am soldering in complete detail. I can see the flux all around the joint and on the pcb when I heat it with the iron.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:35:09 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 09, 2015, 09:25:02 amBernice

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:59:09 am
content: Zeiss Jena and Askania could be more related than different. Checked out the Askania web page:http://www.askania.de/data/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=214&Itemid=4&lang=enOn first glance, these microscopes struck me as Zeiss Jena. It is very possible these Zeiss Jena designs remained in production long after East & West Zeiss joined back together after the wall came down. These Zeiss designs were optically and mechanically fine and remain viable to this day. The West German version of this design appears to be the Zeiss SR and SV series. These were produced much the same times as these Zeiss Jena stereo microscopes.Some where in my microscope literature archives is a Zeiss Jena catalog which list this particular stereo microscope. They had a US distributor in Silly Valley and sold quite a few of them in SV. That microscope distributor had a really great microscope show room where one can visit and do demos of their offerings.This is my Zeiss SV8 with polarized bright field lighting system, camera tube (removable if not needed), dual speed focusing and dual iris built into the microscope body to control illumination and adjust perceived depth of image focus. SV8 means the microscope body is 8X range + eyepiece magnification not including magnification reduction and increase lenses and various other optical add ons.BerniceQuote from: G0HZU on December 08, 2015, 07:43:49 pm

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 08:18:31 am
content: Just started a thread on magnifying lamps in the Other Equipment & Products Forum so as not to distract this discussion:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/magnifying-lamp-for-soldering/#newFeel free to make any suggestions over there.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 10:37:12 am
content: A little OT but I guess this is as good a place to mention it as any... These flip-up lens covers (intended for rifle scopes etc) make really cheap and useful eyepiece covers (many other sellers too):http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flip-Up-Lens-Cover-Cap-Rifle-Scope-Telescopic-Sight-All-Size-Available-Black-/371292468203?var=&hash=item5672c173eb:m:mKK3LvRzesNYE14s9TUyrdwThey're available in a range of diameters and press snugly over the eyepieces. As supplied they have plastic pips to hold them closed and a spring in the hinge to flip them open. I've found it better to remove the springs (easy to push out the pins and replace the spring with a bit of sleeving) and carve away the pips so that they can just flop open and closed as needed.I looked for ages to find something cheap and effective. I wear glasses so can't use the standard rubber shields and was getting tired of them knocking against the hard anodized eyepieces. These have a thin ring of plastic that's just right protection with standard high eye-point eyepieces.Hopefully a helpful tip anyway.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 07:16:24 am
content: After a question came up about using a 0.3 Barlow vs a 0.5 Barlow to get a wider view and more working space a comment was made that the height required for the 0.3 Barlow might very well exceed the height allowed by the microscope pillar. In fact, the double arm stand that ships with most Amscope SM-4 series scopes includes a 17" pillar and at first look/calculation it seemed it might be on the order of 4" too short to make full use of the 0.3 Barlow.In looking around I found a video on youtube by a fellow (Roger Hess) who made a modification to the double arm stand (it's a very cool modification to enable smoother horizontal travel of the microscope head). The video took me to Roger's site where he talks about the scope in lots of good detail in addition to his arm modification.Here is the site - which will take you to the arm modification video (toward the bottom of the page).http://www.technitoys.com/review-amscope-trinocular-boom-stereo-microscope/On the site are various good photos of Roger's work and the microscope including a stock photo of the SM-4TX (with the 144A light which look like a good light choice). I'm interested in the SM-4TPZ but outwardly it appears the same as the SM-4TX.After doing some photo math measuring extrapolations I had concluded that the 17" height pillar would be too short for the 0.3 Barlow but in the second photo you can see that the front column can be inverted - which adds lots of working distance if needed (if the inverted setup is too much height the working distance could be reduced by lowering the coupling at the pillar).Just wanted to share this in case anyone else is looking at a 0.3 Barlow and the Amscope double arm stand.EF

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 08:15:53 pm
content: http://www.technitoys.com/review-amscope-trinocular-boom-stereo-microscope/Nice writeup, this.My Amscope double boom stand is exactly the same as his. 19.88mm +- 20 mics and grooved. I have found the rough movement to be disappointing. But I don't see how this problem necessitates the locking of the boom to use the microscope. If anything, it makes the microscope "friction lock" wherever you move it from the weight of the head. I have no problem to move the scope back/forth with one hand, and I have never locked it. So I think as long as the problem is self-limited, it is probably good enough for most users. I have a feeling the peening is self-limiting. But I can imagine the failure mode could be premature death of the bearings due to the grooves/roughness making things work harder.If I had a lathe, I would follow in this guy's footsteps. His fix looks so smooth.There could be a small market here for boom arm shafts? I wonder how long it would take to pop out a couple dozen of those with a lathe.BTW, Electro Fan, there are definitely maybe 4" inches leftover on the stock stand when using the 0.5 Barlow. If you were to invert the head part of the stand, I think a 0.3x would be easily doable... if your neck is long enough.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 08:38:35 pm
content: It's often the way with Chinese stuff. (I'm thinking of the DC-K40 laser cutter and things like that.) The core of it is reasonably quality and good value, but the ruin it by skimping on the cheap and relatively easy stuff.I just got an Amscope equivalent direct from a Chinese eBay seller and am fairly impressed with most of it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 10:12:34 am
content: Since reading about the Amscope stand cost-cutting, I examined my stand more closely. And I got it working a lot smoother. I hope it will last.If you take the steel rod out and look at the bearings, you can see the balls in each bearing are lined up in 5 rows (which are parallel to the steel rod), like a star pattern. If you arrange the rear bearing so the star is pointing down, and the front bearing so the star is pointing up, there will always be two sets of bearings on the top/back of the rod and two sets on the bottom/front of the rod, under load, keeping the rod centered and balanced.If the bearings are simply inserted randomly, there is a pretty good chance that most of the weight is going to hit one line of bearings harder in the front and/or the back, which would also increase have the effect of pushing the rod left/right. My telescoping boom arm has a pretty good burr which I think was partly due to the bearings being "out of whack."

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 07:22:39 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 14, 2015, 08:15:53 pmSorry for being late back to this thread. I'm with you on the volume production of the boom shafts - it might be possible to line up the sale of a dozen or so units.Amscope says that the 0.3x should provide a working distance of 12" - did the inverted head give you that much or more?If so, that still leaves the viewing height - which I think would take a taller chair/stool, or maybe a standing position. In my case I don't work on projects that require a scope all day long so I would probably go with the standing approach.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 07:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 24, 2015, 10:12:34 amNice find.Just to confirm, you were able to not only observe the star pattern but you were able to put the bearing assemblies into the proper alignment? Easy enough to do? Any special tools or techniques required? Thx

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 08:34:13 pm
content: Inverted, yeah. Plenty of space to get 12"QuoteYeah, if you take out the steel rod, you can see two sets of bearings. Plastic sleeves with 5 rows of ball bearings oriented parallel to the rod.There are two tiny holes on the right side of the cast part that holds all this together. Recessed in these tiny holes are two little worm screws that hold the bearings in place. I believe they take a small metric hex bit. I don't have any of those, so I used the closest torx bit. Loosen screw, turn bearing until it is how you want it, tighten screw.It's only been a little over a week, or so, since I did this. So I can't say what will happen long-term. I've had my scope for about a year. Originally, my stand started to get rough after 4-5 months of use - and a deep groove/bur formed on one spot on the rod. So if I didn't lift the head to move it, things were gritty/crunchy. But I have a feeling this bearing trick will help things last, particularly now that I take care to lift up a bit on the head when moving the boom in/out. It's hard to remember, but I think it might be smoother now that it ever was. At any rate, if things get bad again, I would expect to see TWO grooves/burs, this time.FWIW, the single groove that formed on my stand didn't occur on the top or bottom. It was in the bottom half of the rod but way off to the left. A little closer to west than southwest. So it wasn't caused by a primary load-bearing row of ball bearings. There was evident side-loading involved. The careful orientation of the bearings should theoretically remove any side-load.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 10:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 24, 2015, 08:34:13 pmThanks for the measurement - but in re-reading the posts I've lost track.... is there 12" of room (for the 0.3) when the head is in the normal position or only in the inverted position? Are you seeing any downsides to the inverted approach? Top heavy or less stable, or just as good?And thanks for the insight on how to adjust the bearings. Please keep us posted as you observe the effects.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2015, 07:19:47 pm
content: You can probably get ~12" if you extend one part past the end of the rod. You'd still have enough stability, I think. But if you were looking at anything taller, you would eventually run out of adjustment after a couple inches or so.It is trivial to invert the head, so no reason not to invert the head whenever you put the 0.3x lens on that I can imagine. And no, there's really no major drawback that I can think of running it upside down.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 04:02:03 pm
content: They _finally_ processed my RMA, so if you have to return something, understand it will take time. They didn't charge me for original shipping or a restocking fee because I complained that they said it would work when it didn't, so that was a plus.Lately I've found that I prefer it without the rubber eye guards. They seem to irritate my eyes more than they help me position. What I've found is that I can't really solder pcb's any faster with it, but that I can solder with a much higher precision and the quality of my work is much better.Part of me wants to try the 0.3x barlow, but I don't want to deal with the return process again if I don't like it.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 04:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on January 03, 2016, 04:02:03 pmAmazon returns are much simpler.E.g. (not sure if this is the lens that fits your microscope)http://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SM03-Widefield-Barlow-Microscopes/dp/B009VUP3R0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1451839368&sr=8-3&keywords=amscope+barlow

author: AustinTxBob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 04:20:11 am
content: Quote from: Rupunzell on December 09, 2015, 08:01:57 amHi Bernice. Do you know what make and model that light is?

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 04:36:08 am
content: Quote from: zapta on January 03, 2016, 04:44:30 pm+ 1 for Amazon; if you need to return something just print out the return label, put it back in the original box, drop it off at any UPS store (or I think you might be able to have UPS pick it up), done.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 02:07:45 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on January 08, 2016, 04:36:08 amIn the US any UPS store or UPS pick up place, in my case it is a nearby liquor store OR they will pick it up. Much easier than going to the post office. At the liquor store they do not even make me stand in line, I can just hand the package to them and leave.

author: cobbler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 02:46:02 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on January 03, 2016, 04:02:03 pmThat is good news. I also had terrible customer service with Amscope, they operate under ebay seller nameprecision*world(this seller is the real Amscope company, not a reseller).I ordered a nice scope from ebay... When I received the scope I opened the box and it was just the stand and arms. I sent Amscope a message and asked"where is the head and camera?"And they replied back with"oops we sent two boxes but you only received one":So I started the Return process and shipped back the box with the base unit using their shipping label.Then they replied to me and said the item I shipped them had "scratches" on it from the way I packaged it, which is impossible because I never used it and packaged it with bubblewrap and styrofoam. They said they are only willing to give a partial refund and ripping me off for $150 bucks. I called ebay customer support and opened a complaint. Today Amscope sent me only a partial refund, an attempted ripoff of $150.Their scopes may be decent quality buttheir customer service is seriously bo-bo

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 03:31:53 am
content: Ouch. I did get a full refund, but only because I plead my case that they should have known it wouldn't work before they sent it to me. I do like their scope however, it is really helping me make boards at a level I wasn't able to before.