First picture on EEVblog of the new R&S MXO4 series oscilloscope :) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2022, 11:26:32 pm
content: It's been sitting in my office for weeks, but now that it's been officially launched, I'm officially allowed to share

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2022, 11:46:20 pm
content: Nice to see manufacturers continuing to push the envelope of specifications in multiple directions (not just a one trick pony), including details like more offset range.Do share pricing when you can.

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2022, 11:46:39 pm
content: R&S could send me one to review… just sayin 🤓

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 12:09:29 am
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on September 27, 2022, 11:46:39 pmI'd send you mine if I didn't already have a huge list of things I need to do with it

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 01:43:34 am
content: The specs look really good! Full HD resolution screen as well.Just wondering whether this model also uses decimated data for math or that it is possible to use the actual acquired data.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 04:25:02 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on September 28, 2022, 03:40:05 amNope, it doesn't occuralwaysbeforeanymath processing and is not the case foralldigital oscilloscopes.Nice looking machine!! Looking forward to more info!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:49:52 am
content: The USB ports casings looks cheap. No matter what you say, R&S could have done much better.Otherwise it looks good and I expect it to be a new comparison reference. Let's see the price.

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 10:57:34 am
content: I've attached the data sheet of the MXO4.There is also a nice brochure online (19.1MByte).Can be downloadedhere.

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:00:08 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 28, 2022, 08:49:52 amAlliCE has some prices online:https://allice.de/rohde-schwarz/rohde-schwarz-msox4-oszilloskope-mxo44-next-generation-oscilloscope/Edit:Screenshot:

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:23:46 am
content: This really looks nice and interesting. Will there be more options available like Ethernet compliance tests? Right now there are only some serial decoders, AWG and bode plot.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:25:08 am
content: Quote from: BU508A on September 28, 2022, 11:00:08 amAs usual, it was a nice ride while it lasted.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 12:23:59 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 28, 2022, 11:25:08 amWell, if you compare the 200MHz version its "only" a factor of 2 compared to a Siglent SDS2204X HDHonestly, i think the pricing is decent when compared to Tek Series 4 or Kesight 4000. Lecroy 4000HD might be a lot cheaper due to special offers but not with regular pricing.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 12:32:10 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on September 28, 2022, 03:40:05 amNo. For example: GW Instek, Lecroy, Siglent and Tektronix use the acquired data to perform math on. Typically you can choose to do math on the full memory record, the screen portion or between cursors. This means that regardless of the zoom level, you always get the same result from measurements and math. When I did testing of the filter functions on the RTM3004, I noticed that these show odd behaviour due to decimating the data. The decimation makes the filter functions far less usefull. I get that decimation makes doing measurements & math faster but it also means data is being thrown away and it makes it necessary to hint the user that the results may not be accurate.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 02:03:45 pm
content: Early look and teardown by AddOhms for those interested:We're working to get Dave and Shahriar permanent units as well - we're still starting to get them shipped out. Hope they'll have them shortly (@Dave - Tristen will be in touch if he hasn't already been).-Rich

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 02:57:01 pm
content: If the waveform update rate is really high for all settings then this maybe the first scope that has both high resolution and fast waveform update rate (>1 MS/sec). My question would be how fast it can perform waveform average? Maximum is 16M averages, how long would that take?

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 05:12:46 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 02:03:45 pmI could use a permanent unit too...Joking, I'm no one of influencer or reviewer to have a brand send me something that although I have use for I can't show, so no increasing sales for the brand.Although yes it would be good to have one...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 05:23:24 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on September 28, 2022, 02:57:01 pmAnd don't forget deep memory... Keysight is having a very bad day today.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 05:43:06 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 02:03:45 pmIn the video he says this is a replacement of the RTA4000 series. Would be nice to see some of the technology trickle down to a future MXO 3 or MXO 2 series if they also plan to replace RTB2000 and RTM3000.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 06:29:11 pm
content: Quote from: Domitronic on September 28, 2022, 05:43:06 pmI can't talk roadmap, but we've been pretty open about this scope being "the first" of a new generation using this chipset. So read from that what you will-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 06:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on September 28, 2022, 02:57:01 pmSadly, I don't even have one yet. Maybe @pdenisowski can test that? If not, I'll get an answer for you as soon as I get my hands on one.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 06:36:04 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on September 27, 2022, 11:46:20 pmThe offset range is a great catch - it will be overlooked with all the speed discussion, but is critical in many applications.Pricing for the US starts at $8,435 for a 200MHz, 4ch model (sorry - don't have other countries).-Rich

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 06:39:09 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 06:36:04 pmI agree with that. A limited offset range is something I run into regulary on various oscilloscopes.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 06:55:59 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 06:36:04 pmBatronix (Germany/EU) got them too:https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-MXO44-242.htmlI must confess, this is really an eyecatcher - But far, far away for me...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 07:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: Domitronic on September 28, 2022, 12:23:59 pmWait 'til you add a few "accessories" like serial decoders, the AWG, or heaven forbid ... a bandwidth upgrade.Is the Siglent HD hackable? I'm betting the R&S isn't.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 07:46:12 pm
content: Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction(Kierkegaard)

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 07:52:54 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 02:03:45 pmVery cool review.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 07:55:41 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 28, 2022, 07:38:44 pmThe HD has been shown to be. You're missing classes.Regarding the R&S, do you wanna bet one?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:14:48 pm
content: Hmmm.....A challenge....This would be worth alone to buy it...

author: tomud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 28, 2022, 07:38:44 pmIt doesn't really matter. Probably few hobbyists who hack oscilloscopes are able to spend 7600 euro + VAT on the oscilloscope. For me, the maximum expenditure is the SDS2000X HD level ... Although I was thinking about SDS6054A - if there was 12 bit at this price, maybe I would have the enthusiasm to collect that muchThe oscilloscope is really nice, maybe if R&S will give some special prices for hobbyists I will buy it

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:24:50 pm
content: QuoteMe too, I was sweating blood while making the moneytransfer...On the other hand my audio equipment had cost more than double and my interests are actually changing more in the direction of having good measure equipment at home.But 9000€....Actually impossible to think of.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 28, 2022, 07:55:41 pmSorry for not following every single Siglent thread...

author: tomud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:36:01 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 28, 2022, 08:24:50 pmI'm better;) + 23% VAT instead of 19% in Germany, with such large amounts it is a good sum to payWhat's funny, if I bought in Batronix for a company, I would pay 0% VAT - ehh, this is social justice and how to pay taxes honestly

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 08:37:58 pm
content: So it drops down from millions of triggers per second to 1.3k WFMS/s when you enable statistics?For instance, SDS6000H12 PRO can't achieve 4.5MWFMS/s. It will go up to 150K. But if you enable 6 measurements, with full statistics, measuring over full buffer, an histicons (histograms) for all measurements it will not slow down at ALL.This only shows how different architectures have it's strengths at different places..What I like is that they seem to have implemented spectrum analysis that is independent from time domain... That could be interesting if there is mixed mode triggering..One thing I don't like is that they fully embraced practice to release products that are not feature complete... At this moment it has less protocol decodes than Rigol DS1000Z, Zone button is not implemented ... and god knows what else we cannot see from short video.Yes I know they will do it, but if I buy a 25000€ scope I would like it to work today not in two years, no matter how I trust them to be good on a promise. It is a simple matter that in that case it is prudent to buy it when it actually can perform tasks needed. In two years..But it seems to be a nice step forward for R&S...

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 28, 2022, 08:37:58 pmThat is really a problem today. Tektronix does the same with their new 2 Series. The only way out is to make your decision on what it is at the time you buy and not what might be in the future. Just don't assume anything will be fixed or added later on. And much less expect that anything will be free of charge. If even simple serial decoders come with additional cost, i would assume zone trigger will not be added free of charge but as an option later on.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:24:30 pm
content: QuoteEveryone does it, siglent, rigol also.You buy a fully loaded scope in every case.Even when you buy the basic model, every costs are into the price for it plus bonus.And when you relase an option like freeing a prisioner, it will make more plus.Therefore they can make "promo-offers" like all options including, without weeping in their cushions.And therefore I don´t have any problems to free prisioners without paying ransom money.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: Domitronic on September 28, 2022, 09:05:28 pmZone will be a free upgrade. And it's really good-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 28, 2022, 08:37:58 pmI hear what you're saying, but I guess I like that we have the ability to turn so many things on in hardware over time. So even if it isn't done today in hardware (say measurement statistics) we can add that as needed/asked for. And since this is a new platform, it will mature over time. I think people will be impressed at what we can do with it and I sort of love when new firmware is released on something like my phone (or even cars with OTA updates) and new features and capabilities come about. But I may be in the minority.With respect to the frequency domain - it is fully independent, but is still correlated to the time domain. You can do some really powerful things with it today (with more to come - free even).-Rich

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:40:26 pm
content: Quote from: tomud on September 28, 2022, 08:36:01 pmIt's not "cheaper" for a company, they'd reclaim the VAT anyway if they bought it in their own country.European VAT rules are just there to avoid inter-country paperwork - you don't pay VAT on the purchase but you also don't get to reclaim it in your tax returns.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:54:25 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 28, 2022, 09:24:30 pmThats not what i meant. Selling options is fine for me of course. There is cost involved to develop software options and its clear for me that it costs money. For example if a bode plot function saves a lot of time at work because i don't have to sweep it manually this money is justified.Tektronix released the 2 series without the MSO function implemented. Advertising features that are not there but might be in the future is the problem. At least R&S doesn't promise anything in particular and just advertise what is already there. What i wanted to say is make your decisions on what is already there and not what my be in the future. If you need a MSO with 16 digital channels, simply don't buy Tek 2 series today. If you need other decoders/options than MXO4 has today, don't buy it today.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 09:55:34 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 09:36:09 pmIMHO the most important thing is that what functionality is offered today, is working as expected / reliable. Whether the current feature set matches your current buying requirements is another matter. From a business perspective I think it is not wise to buy test equipment that misses features you need today. I also think that adding features in the future won't affect any buying decission other than having more features makes an instrument more likely to fit certain requirements at some point in time.I do get though that you need to release a product to the market at some point; a good moment is when the basic functionality is working up to a level where the product is interesting enough to buy. If you leave it up to engineers, a product is never finished

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 10:57:02 pm
content: This can be seen twice..The rest I can sign, we bought "raw" siglent sds2k+ scopes without any additional options - Because we don´t need them.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:03:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 28, 2022, 05:23:24 pmas if the EXR models never existed! Much more comparable on the memory axis, ups and downs on other characteristics.Compared to the competition, R&S are pushing products with broader capabilities covering more ground in a single instrument. Easy to pick one dimension against almost any other specific scope where it excels, since the multidimensional polar diagram (that some manufacturers love for their comparisons) is so large in area, but with only incremental improvement over the best one-trick pony in any one dimension.

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:18:05 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 02:03:45 pmI’m a test gear reviewer too you know… I could use one to look at as well.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:32:38 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on September 28, 2022, 11:03:58 pmKeysight EXR is in a different price bracket and it is PC based as well.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 11:55:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 28, 2022, 11:32:38 pmReally? want to continue with your misleading statements? EXR's are priced around the same as MSOX4000's (used as a "direct" comparison).MXO vs MSOX4000 vs EXR USD pricing4ch 500MHz, 17,205 vs 22,370 vs 22,5794ch 1GHz, 21,310 vs 26,883 vs 28,25530% more, retail, comparing a just released (and competitive) model. By your argument the MSOX4000 isn't a target for comparison. Unsurprisingly, new released product does more for somewhat less $$. That's not a different price bracket, or a different performance/tier, or a different target market. They have quite the overlap. As I said in the full quote:Quote from: Someone on September 28, 2022, 11:03:58 pmThere isn't a single direct competitor you can pick out, most brands have 2+ different model lines overlapping this space. R&S are doing good things with well rounded designs, better value for small companies that don't have a fleet of different tools to pick from.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 04:59:00 am
content: Keysight's EXR or other "mid-range" models don't go any faster than 200k waveforms/sec. Here is a handy summary.But: MXO4 slowing down to 1300 waveforms/sec when statistics is enabled is a major problem! What happens when the averaging is turned on? I can see that the most common use for fast waveform update is to catch rare events. But another major use is to quickly accumulate data, such as average and standard deviation.

author: tomud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 05:19:57 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 28, 2022, 09:40:26 pmI know how it works because I also have a company ... Except that so far I have not bought hobby equipment on invoice (although I can - you can see honesty does not pay off too much). However, there is also a subtle difference. Do not pay VAT and pay and wait X time for the returnI am ignoring the fact that stupid EU VAT regulations (including the zero rate) are the best for thieves who defraud VAT refunds. Another bullshit recipe that I have to pay more VAT online (when buying for hobby use), it is more profitable for me to go to Germany (producing some CO2, NOx...) and buy an oscilloscope with a lower VAT rate... ...but this is not a topic for this forum.

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 08:35:42 am
content: I got the RTB2004-COM4 promo, so why not wait for the MXO4-COM4 package....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 09:59:53 am
content: Quote from: tomud on September 29, 2022, 05:19:57 amIn theory I could get the RTB2004EDU with a ton of options for 1790 Euros.https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTB2004EDU.htmlAll the bits bought separately as an ordinary citizen would be over 6000 Euros.I hate the shiny screen though, so...Edit: A day later and the price is now 2233 Euros! I should have snapped one up...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 10:09:23 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 29, 2022, 09:59:53 amDon't forget it's only 70MHz..

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 10:42:56 am
content: Quote from: goaty on September 29, 2022, 08:35:42 amWell, looking at my budget i would need to wait for a MXO2-COM4 package

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 02:00:23 pm
content: Just downloaded the 574 page manual.Will keep me out of trouble over the next few days.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 02:22:44 pm
content: I am still trying to figure out the FFT architecture. From this video:https://youtu.be/acE3d4TpiW4?t=46it looks like changing the FFT settings also changes the time domain acquisition settings. Reducing the RBW 500Hz -> 400Hz -> 300Hz also reduces the sample rate from 1000 -> 833 -> 417 MS/s, which is what I would expect if the FFT were dependent on acquisition data (lower RBW => longer FFT window => longer acquisition) but not what I would expect from an independent FFT pathway.The ability to have an independent FFT acquisition path would be very helpful for applications that require low-bandwidth-high-res time domain and low-bandwidth-high-frequency RF, e.g. looking at a power rail, spi bus, or VCO control at the same time as a corresponding 900MHz RF burst. On my bench, this is a very common situation. If the FFT must be calculated off acquisition data, the high fundamental frequency of the RF burst demands a high sample rate even though "morally" it has a lower information requirement driven by RBW+span. If the FFT and time domain have separate acquisition paths, these requirements are not in conflict, because the FPGA can send an efficient low-bandwidth-high-res time-domain trace alongside a low-bandwidth-high-frequency spectrogram, rather than a big high-bandwidth block of full-rate samples suitable for calculating both of them.I want to believe that the MXO resolves this conflict with independent measurement pathways, but the video makes it look like the MXO has independent FFT in the more limited sense as the older R&S scopes, where you can trade off RBW against the number of stacked/overlapped FFTs, but you cannot have low-bandwidth-high-res time domain at the same time as low-bandwidth-high-frequency spectra unless you fill your acquisition memory with high-bandwidth samples. Could you clarify which definition of "independent" is in play here? Thanks. (EDIT: I made & pulled this same post yesterday, not wanting to cause out-of-hours work, but I was too slow and got an answer by PM anyway. Apologies.)

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 02:32:20 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on September 29, 2022, 02:22:44 pmGood question - and I appreciate you not wanting to cause out-of-hours workI PM'd our planner to get an answer - here's what they replied:Historically, oscilloscope FFTs have had dependencies between frequency domain settings (CF, span, RBW) and time domain settings (RL, timebase). If you changed the RL or timebase in the time domain this would cause a change to the FFT RBW and the converse was also true. For the MXO 4 we removed these dependencies. So you can set the timebase as you want and set CF/Span and RBW independently. With that said, you are correct that adequate sample rate is still a requirement for bandwidth in either the time domain or frequency domain. Nyquist still rules. For MXO 4 the sample rate determines a common maximum bandwidth value for both time and frequency domain.-Rich

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2022, 02:57:17 pm
content: Ok, so it sounds like the FFT settings are independent but constraints still propagate to acquisition settings (low RBW -> long acquisition, high frequency -> high sample rate). That's still a very useful capability -- I certainly appreciate it on my RTO -- but it still leaves the tradeoff where if I simultaneously want two low-bandwidth things (say, 1MHz of DC and a 1MHz sliver of RF) I still have to fill my acquisition memory with full-bandwidth samples (2.5GS/s rather than, say, 1*5MS/s + 1*5MS/s).Even so, the new capabilities are beautiful and I look forward to the day when the platform refresh works up to MXO6 tier

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2022, 12:50:42 pm
content: The 18 short (~1 minute) videos showing different features of the MXO4 are now live on the Rohde and Schwarz YouTube channelhttps://www.youtube.com/user/RohdeundSchwarz/videos

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2022, 01:54:24 pm
content: Pity that the input BNCs on the MXO4 are not colour coded like on my R&S HMO1022.Here LEDs next to the BNCs are used to colour code the active channels. Very useful IMO.Moreover, on the MXO4 the channels are abbreviated as C1 ... C4instead of the more usual CH1...CH4.For us audio types it would be nice to know - just as a matter of interest - the truedistortion level of both generator and scope at 1 kHz.The specs say: <0.1 % (-60dB) below 10 MHz. I expect the MXO4 to be muchbetter than that at 1 kHz.Also a pity, that I do not have a use case for the MXO44 or even a MXO42 (+ generator option)should a two channel version ever become available. Even a two channel MSOX4 with generatoroption will probably be well over 5k Euros. Oh well.My HMO1022 can do everything I need and also much more.Toddles off to read more about this beast

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 01:43:50 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on September 30, 2022, 12:50:42 pmHello pdenisowski,in the thread:"https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/" we want to analyze and compare the noise behavior of different 12 bit scopes in more detail.It would be interesting if we also got data of the new impressive MXO 4.Eight traces would be useful for this:Maybe you should not use the first channel, because with my RTA4000 the display there also disturbs something.All 8 measurements with 400 Mpoints (or 800 Mpoints) memory and 5 GSa/s sampling rate and open inputs:1 mV/div 50 Ohm maximum bandwidth (200 MHz)1 mV/div 50 Ohm 20 MHz bandwidth1 mV/div 1 MOhm maximum bandwidth (200 MHz)1 mV/div 1 MOhm 20 MHz bandwidth1 V/div 50 Ohm maximum bandwidth (200 MHz)1 V/div 50 Ohm 20 MHz bandwidth1 V/div 1 MOhm maximum bandwidth (200 MHz)1 V/div 1 MOhm 20 MHz bandwidthThanks in advance.Best regardsegonottoPS: In datasheet page 7"Memory depthstandard 400 Mpoints with 4 active channel (single),400 Mpoints with 2 active channel (run)R&S®MXO4-B108 option800 Mpoints with 2 active channel (single),800 Mpoints with 1 active channel (run)"Is this correct? I would guess that the memory is larger with 2 channels than with 4 channels with (single).Is there is more detailed information on "The maximum available memory depth depends on the bit depth of the acquired data and, therefore, on the settings of the acquisition system, such asdecimation mode, waveform arithmetic or high definition mode"

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 01:41:26 pm
content: Not a 12 bit scope, but I took the same measurements on my 8 bit RTO with 20MHz and 200MHz HD filters:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e00tn9mtlpsd6gx/AABKMUdwkqgnRjF2VQDP6k_Oa?dl=0(all traces are 10GS/s with filters to reduce bandwidth and improve vertical resolution)Back-of-the-envelope says it starts at ENOB 7, the filters chop noise bandwidth by 20x, so ideally another ~2 bits and ENOB around 9, which is where most 12 bit scopes seem to land anyway. I'd love to see the apples-to-apples comparison of what it actually achieves, though -- I suspect the ENOB figures on the 12 bit scopes might be suffering from some kind of worst case and that the 3 least significant bits aren't typically complete rubbish.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 11:13:13 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 29, 2022, 09:59:53 amBuy a tablet matte screen protector. Then cut it.They are made with different levels of "matteness".

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2022, 03:24:45 pm
content: QuoteOver time, there are more and more instruments in my lab that have shiny screens, small or large. From a company called ViaScreens I bought their "Wacom Cintiq Pro 24 Matte Screen Protector". Not that I have that Wacom device, but it's among the largest protectors they have, and I think they even send you two if you order it. Works well with digitizer screens (after all, that's what the Wacom is about).More than enough to cut out parts for all the shiny devices I have here ;-)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2022, 10:59:08 pm
content: You can probably get any size screen protector on Aliexpress.I cut up phone screen protectors for all my multimeters, etc.

author: Neurosurg
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2022, 03:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on October 01, 2022, 01:41:26 pmJjonathan could you post a picture of yours R&S RTO1044 in HQ. In my opinon the RTE, RTO scopes looks much more professjonal and well doned

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2022, 07:36:01 pm
content: Quote from: Neurosurg on October 18, 2022, 03:36:24 pmHere, I have performed a rigorous evaluation of the professional aspects of the scope, just for you

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2022, 09:25:10 pm
content: Now I know for what it´s good for..

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2022, 10:18:16 pm
content: Ssh, don't tell marketing, or next time we will need to buy an option RTO-K666 to play doom

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2022, 11:14:43 pm
content: Hello,what version of Doom is this? It looks like Doom 4.Best regardsegonotto

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2022, 11:44:20 pm
content: Doom Eternal, the one from 2020 with good gameplay. Highly recommended.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2022, 10:26:41 pm
content: Looking on the batronix site, the prices for the options are heavy ones.Not under 3K/each (appx and incl. 19%VAT), bode plot, decodings, more memory and so on...But one thing is interesting, you can upgrade the bandwith from 200Mhz up to the topmodel 1.5Ghz, so it´s always the same hardware.Nice thing for hackers..And interesting the second, buying the upgrade from 200Mhz to 1.5Ghz is NOT more expensive than buying directly the 1.5Ghz model.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2022, 03:29:55 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 22, 2022, 10:26:41 pmYou probably need to go inside and solder JTAG wires to the PCB though, and working hacks are thin on the ground.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/why-bandwidth-hacks-difficult-at-rs-devices/Quote from: Martin72 on October 22, 2022, 10:26:41 pmAre you sure the 1.5Ghz model doesn't have other stuff included as standard?

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 07:20:57 am
content: Are there any review videos coming up on the MXO4 ? Seems to me to be too quiet around that device - even if I cannot afford it, it would be interesting.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 12:32:13 am
content: Same here, around 10k makes it nearly (but not completely) impossible to buy in private.But I would love to see "more" from it, it´s a very sexy scope from the first view..

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 02:58:40 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 17, 2022, 12:32:13 amMe too. If could get a fully loaded, top of the line MXO4 for around $10K I would go for it immediately.But it looks like a fully configured MXO4 right now would cost me $30K. That's a bit harsh.Maybe R&S could do an introductory Christmas price ?! R&S hint, hint ...luudee

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 04:38:55 am
content: Quote from: goaty on November 16, 2022, 07:20:57 amI've been busy with other videos and scopes, and there was thisIt's being swapped tomorrow.https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7/MXO4-Screw-Loose:2

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 06:40:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 17, 2022, 04:38:55 amAh come on, really ? Would have made the "take it apaaaat" one screw faster.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 07:41:18 am
content: Quote from: goaty on November 17, 2022, 06:40:17 amI was actually on a live stream with them going over some of the advanced features when I discovered it. I promised I wouldn't take it apart so they could investigate.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 05:20:19 pm
content: Is there any update on MXO4? A noise spectrum and characterization of waveform update rate under different conditions would be nice!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2023, 11:52:22 am
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on January 11, 2023, 05:20:19 pmPlan is to work on it this week. I just got back from a few weeks walkabout.But I also have other videos I want to get finished, mailbag shelf is full, all the usual excuses...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 02:49:24 am
content: Finishing shooting the MXO4 unboxing video and tried to test the 4.5Mwfms/sec update, and, well, I don't see it

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 06:15:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 07, 2023, 02:49:24 amI had the measurements turned on. They said they are going to improve this in future firmware. So much for the ASIC.

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 08:23:36 am
content: Settings are the same or comparable ? Like trigger level ?Update rate on the RTB2k also varies a lot and does rarely reach 50k/s.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 11:57:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 07, 2023, 06:15:13 amThat is analytic scope. It is not used that way...And 4.5 Mtriggers in segmented mode is very good and very useful.Set scope to long capture and set search for pulse width less than normal clock width. You will have 100% POI.Or use pulse width trigger, with segmented mode, and assemble statistics of how glitch happens... Also 100% POI..

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 01:08:49 pm
content: I wonder why there is this huge "blind time" of more then a millisecond.That must be some parameters.Of course one can use fast segmentation mode, but why it needs so much time between triggers ?

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 02:03:18 pm
content: analytic scope versus a display scope?

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 02:13:30 pm
content: Quote"Analytic scope" without at least Trends, Tracks and Histograms???I don't really believe that...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 02:40:15 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 08, 2023, 02:13:30 pmAre you serious ?Honestly I didn't even check so far... I EXPECTED it to have at least that...1000€ scopes have that nowadays...Thank you for this nugget of information...That is absolutely epic fail...What is the price for then... ?

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 02:56:20 pm
content: Not even simply Histicons ?!?Prices from Batronix:R&S® MXO44-2410 4x 1 GHz € 22.848,- inkl. 19% MwSt.R&S® MXO4-B1 MSO Option € 3.332,-R&S® MXO4-B6 Funktionsgenerator € 1.666,-R&S® MXO4-B108 Speichererweiterung 800 Mpts € 3.094,-R&S® MXO4-K510 I2C, SPI, RS232, UART Dekoder € 2.856,-R&S® MXO4-K520 CAN, CAN-FD, CAN-XL Dekoder € 2.856,-R&S® MXO4-K36 Bode Plot € 2.380,--------------------------€ 39.032,-

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 10:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 08, 2023, 11:57:37 amNo, it has nothing to do with segmented mode at all.It is literally an architecture bug/limitation where if you turn on the horizontal measurements (like frequency) the update rate drops from 1M/wfs/s to 1K/wfs/s.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 10:17:05 pm
content: Seems reasonable to me as the data needs to be processed for the measurement. Ofcourse there is a choice between using only the Nth acquisition to base calculations on OR doing calculations on all acquisitions. In the first option there is a disconnect between what is shown on screen and what is being calculated.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 10:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 08, 2023, 10:17:05 pmNot when you realise that the veritcal measurements and cursors have absolutely no impact at all on the waveform speed. It's only very specific horizontal measurements like Frequency which drops the update rate three orders of magnitude.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 11:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 08, 2023, 10:19:07 pmIf you use an R&S scope for a while, you'll see that using the 'Nsingle' setting for doing a segmented recording is a very efficient way to setup a segmented recording sequence. But I agree it isn't very standard and takes some getting used to. I just used it myself a couple of days ago (on the RTM3004).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:24:33 am
content: If only there were things called manuals where you could go and type the word "single" and have the answer in a few seconds:https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/pdm/cl_manuals/user_manual/1335_5337_01/MXO4_UserManual_en_03.pdf()

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 08:08:09 am
content: Marco Reps is measuring the noise of some ADR1000 with a MXO4:https://youtu.be/mmsBT3Fuggk?t=3030He uploaded the video two days ago.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 08:16:02 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 09, 2023, 04:24:33 amExcept when the manual is wrong. You have to go into the Segmented menu to find the option to change it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 08:19:38 am
content: Quote from: BU508A on February 09, 2023, 08:08:09 amCool. The Rigol is (slightly) lower noise than the MXO4 though. No surprise given the MXO4 has a 1.5GHz front end. Even if you bandwidth limit, the inherent design noise is higher.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 08:20:37 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 08, 2023, 11:03:29 pmAgreed. Segmented mode on most scopes is rather fiddly and annoying in comparison.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:14:12 am
content: Noise values ​​for one "Industry-leading system architecture: 18-bit vertical resolution/12-bit ADC" are not so exceptional low as R&S would like them to be.For MXO4 is stated - RMS noise floor ( HD modeactive for bandwidth ≤ 500 MHz)sensitivity:HDO4: analog bandwidth 1 GHz LeCroy HDO 1 GHz0.5 mV/ 98 µV1 mV/ 104 µV 145 μVrms2 mV/ 116 µV 145 μVrms5 mV/ 152 µV 150 μVrms10 mV/ 238 µV 155 μVrms20 mV/ 436 µV 185 μVrms50 mV/ 1.01 mV 275 μVrms100 mV/ 2.47 mV 500 μVrms200 mV/ 4.43 mV 1.75 mVrms500 mV/ 10.13 mV 2.75 mVrms1 V/div 19.96 mV 4.90 mVrmsFor example, every LeCroy HD Oscilloscope has in sensitivity over 2mV significantly better values, partly4xbetter!That is not bashing, only pure facts.BUT, real bashing can one find on R&S official pages:https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/Comp_sheet_-_MXO4_vs_Lecroy_WaveSurfer_4000HD.pdfhttps://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/Comp_sheet_-_MXO4_vs_Tektronix_4_Series_MSO_v1.00.pdfhttps://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/Comp_sheet_-_MXO4_vs_Keysight_4000_X_v1.00.pdfIf you read something like that, you will be speechless - it's amazing that a company with such a reputation uses such lousy and dirty tricks. - just sad.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:28:04 am
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 09, 2023, 11:14:12 amEvery manufacturer does those comparisons. Lie by omission is the marketing modus operandi.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:33:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2023, 08:16:02 amThey must have moved it around.Still, the clue is there...

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:35:30 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2023, 08:16:02 amHi Dave! When I start from a preset (little green button), it works as described in the manual. I tried this with both the older 1.1.2 FW and the current 1.2 FW. I can make a short video if you like, but if you hit Preset, then Acquisition -> N-single/Avg count, the value should be editable (default value is 1), and Run Single should work as expected (make a single acquisition unless you tell it otherwise).Enabling "Acquisition -> Segmented -> Acquire Maximum" does gray out the acquisition count (since, well, maximum is maximum). My guess is that this got set somehow during a previous session. A tool tip or some other indication that this is enabled might be helpful here.As someone who spent 20 years demonstrating loaner instruments to customers, I'm a big fan of the "Preset" button. Can't count the number of hours I spent scratching my head trying to figure out an issue that was due to some setting that I either hadn't made or had forgotten that I had madeThanks for the video!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:48:42 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on February 09, 2023, 11:35:30 amShort video[Screen capture only, no audio]

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 12:57:04 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on February 09, 2023, 11:35:30 amThanks, but you shouldn't have to hit preset to do that!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 01:00:30 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 09, 2023, 11:33:28 amSure, but I found it anyway, it just wasn't at all obvious on first use. And it's still not clear how/why it's enabled/disabled with the various related options I showed. I think the implementation is a bit of a mess for what is otherwise a great feature.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 01:51:17 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2023, 12:57:04 pmPreset just returns the instrument to the default settings. In my (sometimes painful) experience at two major T&M instrument manufacturers, it can be easy to forget about or overlook a setting, so Preset just allows you to start from a known state with default values.Preset is so useful that most major T&M companies have some version of it -- it actually drives me crazy when I'm trying to use an instrument (even something as simple as a function generator or programmable power supply) that doesn't have some kind of preset.It would be helpful (as I think a YouTube commenter said) to have something that tells youwhya parameter is grayed out. I'll definitely feed that back to our product teams.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 02:18:34 pm
content: "Preset" button can be confusing if all it does is loading default settings. It should be called "Reset" instead. Presets (at least to my view) should be customer configurable.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 03:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 09, 2023, 02:18:34 pmLoading default ("factory") settings is the normal behavior of preset in almost all of the (probably over 100) instruments I've used in my career.That said, some instruments also have a "User Preset" that basically does a preset and then loads user settings - i.e. a "customer configurable preset" [ Specified attachment is not available ]The MXO4 supports both types

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 03:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 09, 2023, 11:14:12 amThis is why we post our noise figures - so people can decide what is most important to them. In our research talking to customers, the smaller volt/div settings were the most painful for them when noisy (e.g. see the Marco Reps video above). If you think of it as a percent of scale, versus just an absolute number (I believe LeCroy uses eight vertical divisions versus ten for us), you can see noise is much more impactful at the smaller volt/div settings. This is also true as you move up in bandwidth - the signals are typically smaller with less margin for error, so having better noise performance on the smaller settings becomes more important.R&S LeCroyScale RMS Noise % of Full Scale RMS Noise % of Full Scale0.001 0.000104 1.0% 0.000145 1.8%0.002 0.000116 0.6% 0.000145 0.9%0.005 0.000152 0.3% 0.00015 0.4%0.01 0.000238 0.2% 0.000155 0.2%0.02 0.000436 0.2% 0.000185 0.1%0.05 0.00101 0.2% 0.000275 0.1%0.1 0.00247 0.2% 0.0005 0.1%0.2 0.00443 0.2% 0.00175 0.1%0.5 0.01013 0.2% 0.00275 0.1%1 0.01996 0.2% 0.0049 0.1%But again, your needs may vary. Wish we never had to make design tradeoffs, but like everyone, we do.-Rich

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:07:58 pm
content: QuoteThank you for your efforts.Well, whether it's 1% or 0.1% full scale in the end doesn't matter.If a signal is smaller than own oscilloscope noise, is and stay it invisible.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:11:03 pm
content: Hallo,@Rich@RohdeScopesUSA:However, RMS is not the right measure here. Better is peak to peak or the really visible width of the noise band.But I would be interested to know why LeCroy HDO 1 GHz at 1 V/div is so much better. Especially compared to RTA4004, even if this is 1.25 V/div in comparison to 1 V/div.Best regards

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on February 09, 2023, 04:11:03 pmEvery scope frontend is combination of attenuators and amplifiers...It all ends up how you combine them in the end...How you combine them is also influenced with needed offset ranges...Making a scope is the ultimate art of compromise..

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on February 09, 2023, 04:11:03 pmI hear you - but no one specs Vpp because it can be impacted by so many other things (e.g. update rate - you'll catch the outliers more often with a faster update rate). With that said, see @2N3055's comment above. It's really true.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 09, 2023, 04:07:58 pmNo worries - I'm happy to help and I really appreciate your comments too. And what you said is the challenge - pulling a small signal out of the noise. Since that is more likely to be really hard at small volt/div settings with tiny signals, that is why we focused there.-Rich

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 04:25:55 pm
content: In fact, Lecroy noise - numbers are even better than proclamated.QuoteHow is actually, big noise by MXO4 in normal - 12 bit mode?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 07:27:04 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 09, 2023, 02:18:34 pmMany new instruments are.It's a very convenient feature to return your scope to your preferred setup with a single button press rather than need to recall a previously saved Setup however they can be very useful for more specific tasks in that you can save several.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:43:47 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on February 09, 2023, 04:11:03 pmPeak to peak noise can greatly depend on the sample rate and waveform update rate. i.e. all thing being equal, a faster update rate scope will appear "noisier".This is why RMS noise is used for comparison.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:51:49 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on February 09, 2023, 03:07:09 pmMost scopes have a dedicated Default button which is different from the user Preset function. Keysight, Tek, Lecroy, Rigol, Siglent, GW Instek all call it Default.R&S is the standout here in calling it Preset.Yes, the Preset button on the MXO4 is actually the Default function, I would not have guessed that without trying it. "PreSet" in english means literally as it says, "pre", i.e. you have set up the configurationbeforeyouSetthe function.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:57:38 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 09, 2023, 07:27:04 pmIn the case of the MXO4 the Preset button works as the Default button on other scopes. You can set it up in the setting to a user defined function though, but by default, it's Default function as per all other scopes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 11:24:48 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2023, 10:51:49 pmMaybe this is the RF background of R&S leaking into the user interface. On RF equipment there is no default button but a Preset button to set the equipment to default settings.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 12:13:31 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 09, 2023, 11:24:48 pmYes I see lots of Preset on anything RF whereas scopes all seem to use Default.Either way, factory Default/Preset is the default option and User definable Defaults/Presets in a couple of forms available too. Some assign user settings to a Default/Preset while in older gear this could also be done as a Setup, just not as quickly/easily recalled.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 08:00:22 am
content: The MXO4 locked up on me again while shooting a clip on the digital logic analyser.Similar lockup result to last time.The bug last time was that I operated the buad rate decode control too quickly. We'll see what it was this time.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 08:23:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2023, 10:43:47 pmShouldn't it be standard deviation to eliminate any DC offset?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 08:27:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 10, 2023, 08:00:22 amWeird that all the menus and stuff keep working. They need to add a watchdog to the acquisition engine/FPGA.

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 09:16:15 am
content: Software is not easy to design. I think a lot of 'traditional' companies did and do struggle with good software design.I remember the remote control of a Canton speaker for TV which was ridculous as well as the 'Rademacher' remote control system for blinds.In the end, R&S is also probably has not the 'Google'-level of software development...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 09:40:23 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 10, 2023, 08:23:18 amYes, also called AC RMS.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 09:41:05 am
content: Quote from: goaty on February 10, 2023, 09:16:15 amThe amount of software in a scope like this would be massive.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 04:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2023, 10:43:47 pmHello,a misunderstanding has occurred. My submission refers to a table of Rich@RohdeScopesUSA in which he relates the RMS noise to the height of the entire screen, as if the RMS noise were measuring the width of the visible noise.Table of Rich@RohdeScopesUSA:"R&S LeCroyScale RMS Noise % of Full Scale RMS Noise % of Full Scale0.001 0.000104 1.0% 0.000145 1.8%0.002 0.000116 0.6% 0.000145 0.9%0.005 0.000152 0.3% 0.00015 0.4%0.01 0.000238 0.2% 0.000155 0.2%0.02 0.000436 0.2% 0.000185 0.1%0.05 0.00101 0.2% 0.000275 0.1%0.1 0.00247 0.2% 0.0005 0.1%0.2 0.00443 0.2% 0.00175 0.1%0.5 0.01013 0.2% 0.00275 0.1%1 0.01996 0.2% 0.0049 0.1%"Best regardegonotto

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 08:21:25 pm
content: QuoteAre we talking here as beta testers on one unfinished (far eastern provenance) product, or we talking over one serious, expensive, industrial quality instrument?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 10:04:55 pm
content: I was able to reproduce the bug:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 10:16:27 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 10, 2023, 08:21:25 pmMy Keysight 3000 literally went up in flames and released the magic smoke on its launch day.An Extech multimeter blew up in my hands.Rigol scopes have had too many bugs to count.The list could go on.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 10:55:47 pm
content: As a rule of thumb: don't buy anything after it has just been released. This goes for about anything more complicated than a hammer and not just test equipment. Wait a year or two for the serious teething issues to be ironed out.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 11:03:10 pm
content: Banana version...But someone has to buy it before all the bugs are fixed.First of all, to find bugs that may not be found in development or simply overlooked.Secondly, if no one buys it and everyone would just wait, why improve something that (apparently) has no takers.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 11:12:08 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 10, 2023, 10:16:27 pmThought I was going to lose my job on this oneFortunately I didn't-Rich

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 04:12:12 am
content: Just recently, i bought a new car and then, unfortunately it turned out that the engine is not yet working as it should,i couldn't drive it.After further consideration fell out that the problem was in software engineering.So after year or two, car was repaired and i was so blissful.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 05:40:04 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on February 10, 2023, 11:12:08 pmI can remember sitting there thinking "They were kind enough to send me this nice scope, should I show people that it actually blew up?" a few seconds later... "Yeah, bugger it, it's hilarious!"Keysight got way more mileage of goodwill out of the rapid response to the issue than any potential damage to their image.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 05:42:42 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 10, 2023, 10:55:47 pmThat approach doesn't work if you want or need a leading edge bit of kit.Happens in software too. Altium and its (in)famous bugs for example. You want the new features released and you accept that there are likely to be a ton of bugs in the new upgrade.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 07:21:16 am
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 10, 2023, 08:21:25 pmSoftware is complicated no matter what country it's written in. I'm sure there's horror stories from every single brand.I'd even believe that the more expensive something is, the more places there are to screw up the design. Cutting edge is cutting edge.No product manager these days is ever going to say "let's just use it internally for another six months and see if any bugs turn up".

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 07:50:41 am
content: QuoteI don't quite understand the logic behind that statement, but as long as the potential buyer is willing to accept it, i have no problem with that.I personally would never do anything like that, or when I buy a great, expensive product (car, TV set...), i expect from the beginning everything to work perfectly (drive easily, perfect picture...).Don't see any reason why would be different with measuring equipment.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 08:03:56 am
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 11, 2023, 07:50:41 amBoth of those frequently have 'recalls' and they both get firmware updates these days.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 08:17:06 am
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 11, 2023, 07:50:41 amSeems you live in some other universe.All brands have had problems, HW and SW.Maybe your weren't alive when Tek had the famous TDS200 worldwide recall ?

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 02:00:52 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 11, 2023, 07:50:41 amMay I introduce you to thetheory of complexity?In essence: the more complex a system is, the more likely is that it has errors and/or flaws in it.It all depends on your definition of "working perfectly" and how high you are setting the level.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 03:47:31 pm
content: QuoteOK, many thanks, finally i got it - so, if I buy something complex and expensive then it is completely wrong to expect that this device should work properly, because the more complex a system is, the more likely is that it has errors and/or flaws in it.Really interesting way of thinking and perfect excuse for work which is only partially done.If i would think that way at my job, than i would have a lot of free timeQuoteHa ha, I was alive at that time (guess i am your age), only not so interested in electronics.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 04:25:15 pm
content: Somehow people cut much more slack for software than hardware errors. Remember how much bad press Intel got for a division bug in Pentiums. But software and firmware bugs are totally accepted. I wouldn't say that software is intrinsically more complicated than designing and making a big processor. Yet hardware gets more and more powerful while software gets more and more bloated while still having mostly the same functionality.More relevant to this thread, we need to compare oscilloscope noise spectra because rms noise does not tell the whole story. For example, Lecroy HDO has better noise RMS numbers than Rigol HDO, yet Rigol has a better spectrum:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/msg4436329/#msg4436329Also having a low noise level at low sensitivity vertical scale (like 1V/div) is the whole point of a high-resolution scope.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 04:38:03 pm
content: maxwell3e10,thanks for explanation.Could you also comment why MXO4 as a HD (12 bit and more) system has DC gain accuracy of ±1 % full scale to ±1.5 % full scale, almost as 8 bit system (LeCroy HDO has 0,5%)?

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 04:54:15 pm
content: You would need to ask Rich. I am not sure if DC accuracy is something people focus on in an oscilloscope. It also depends on the details of the self-calibration procedure.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 05:07:48 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on February 11, 2023, 04:25:15 pmTraditionally, a lot more testing and verification has been put in to hardware. I have been doing ASIC designfor over 30 years. I have also done some software development (C/C++).To manufacture an ASIC, the NRE is anywhere between $1Mil USD, 20 years ago, 180nm node, to about$10Mil USD, Samsung 8nm node, 4 years ago. Because of the high cost, a lot more effort is being put in tomaking HW to be correct the first time. Everything from functional verification, to toggle coverage to varioustiming analysis had to be 100%.Since FPGAs have taken over a lot of the low-volume market, HW/chip designers have lost the art of makinghardware that works the first time around. We now see "firmware" upgrades that not only include software butalso hardware fixes in FPGA bit streams.I bet the "freeze" Dave found in the MXO4 is from some FPGA ... the GUI appears to work just fine.Overall, I believe it has become much less critical to properly verify and test hardware and software, since ithas become so easy to provide and install updates. I still vividly remember the times, when a software updatemeant for a vendor to ship two 27xxx EEPROMS which you had to physically replace on a device motherboard.As such, I believe all equipment we will see in this day and age will suffer from incomplete/faulty HW and SW.It has become so cheap and convenient to issue a fix at a later date, that I bet many of these vendors purposelyleave out features and function for a later date. Time-to-Market has become the driving force.Comparing today's "equipment" to what was manufactured 20 years ago, I believe, the designs were much moremature, complete and though through 20 years ago that they are today.luudee

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2023, 09:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on February 11, 2023, 05:07:48 pmThat is so true regarding the ASIC NRE, maybe even on the low side. Our over decade old CLASS ASIC for DARPA was ~$50M and worked the first time, with only ~1B transistors (massive Systolic Array). Recall Intel spending $100s of Millions on processor chip development long ago and Apple spent ~$1B on the initial M1 chip set development.With those kind of numbers and the huge wafer mask set costs for SOTA Digital CMOS processes (reruns), one better get the design right the first time, as errors are quickly career limitingThe Digital ASIC design folks have the benefit of some very good (an expensive) CAD tools from Cadence, Synopsis and others. Analog ASIC designs folks, the CAD tools available aren't as refined, and much more emphasis and risk is placed upon the designer.If you really want to dive into the risk pool of ASIC design, try the merging of Digital and Analog/RF like our first Microwave Systems on Chip dating back to ~2000, which hosted multiple processors, DSP, memory, DACs, ADCs and entire frequency agile Microwave Receiver/Transmitter on a single SOTA SiGe BiCMOSprocesschip!!Even today with low cost PCBs available it seems that some hardware designs are just thrown together and get fixed by PCB iteration, and the Firmware/Software is just riddled with numerous bugs.However, do think generally the "A Grade" TE OEMs do a better job with new equipment introductions, they have the people and financial resources to do a more thorough job before releasing a new product, and the cost shows such!! Some of the better "B Grade" OEMs seem to do a better job before releasing a new product than others, and seem to have found an attractivecost/bug ratiocost*bug product!!Anyway, old seasoned ASIC designers may have a different perspective on things than folks that have never attempted a complex ASICBest,

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2023, 01:36:58 am
content: Quote from: bozidarms on February 11, 2023, 07:50:41 amVolume, target market, and technical needs are very different between a car and a high end oscilloscope.But car are not immune, Tesla's for example are (in)famous for software bugs that not only impact the software experience but also extend to hardware functionality.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2023, 03:29:58 am
content: One likely reason for the relatively few hardware bugs vs. the typical large number of firmware/software bugs we are accustom too is the hardware bug may require a return and PCB replacement (high OEM cost). Whereas, the firmware/ software bugs are usually rectified by having the user download the prior bug correcting revision (low OEM cost), only to usually introduce new bugsSo the OEM bean counters decide that spending some verification resources on the new product hardware has a better ROI than on firmware/software!!The mentioned Intel processor computational error vs. Microsoft's bug riddled Windows OS is a great example, and somehow Mr Gates has conditioned us with continual software/firmware revisions loaded with new bugs as acceptable. Can you imagine what additional flack Intel would have gathered if they had introduced the replacement processor with one that had a new bug!!Best,

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2023, 09:31:36 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on February 12, 2023, 03:29:58 amThat Intel bug was a reason to introduce formal verification in Intel for verification of designs..But don't worry, they still make them with bugs even today. It is just they are not as blatant as basic FP instructions..And all Intel processor for many years, can do actual microcode updates. At boot time, a BIOS loads a a microcode patch into CPU.. So they are sort of software updatable, not much unlike FPGA. They still have to have at least part of instruction set function properly so the can execute BIOS, but yeah software patches are reality on CPU too..They can even load nev CPU instructions...https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/software-security-guidance/best-practices/microcode-update-guidance.htmlSad part is that software development could be formally verified and there were great developments on that in 80ies and 90ies but once business side realized they could save money by not doing any of that and by lawyering up and desensitizing users to accept "bugs are normal" philosophy, things went downhill fast...

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 08:37:29 pm
content: I just saw the video and Daves enthusiasm about the probes. To me these probes look very much like the PML High-Z probe series from german company PMK:http://www.pmk.de/en/products/pml_high_z_tastkoepfeHowever they are only available up to 500MHz from PMK. So not exactly the same i guess. But other data like the 1650V peak and 9.5pF is the same. And the look is pretty similar as well. Does somebody know if the R&S probes are made by PMK? This could also explain why the probes are labeled with made in Germany.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 09:09:58 pm
content: Quote from: Domitronic on February 20, 2023, 08:37:29 pmLooks indenital in every way, right down the split in the probe end and the arrow.Manual is fully branded R&S but has identitcal pictures and other info to the PMK manual, so 100% sure made by PMK. Nice find.Price?

author: Momchilo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 09:16:18 pm
content: A lot of the passive Lecroy probes are also PMK probes. You can buy the linked 500MHz probe (PML 711A-RO) at Batronix for 327€ incl. VAT. It is the Lecroy PP008 probe.

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 09:34:23 pm
content: Looking at it, I'm fairly sure the same is true of the keysight passive probes, like the N2894A.Everybody rebrands the current probes too, I just don't think there's enough ability to differentiate product to make it worthwhile putting the R&D into them.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 09:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: Momchilo on February 20, 2023, 09:16:18 pmYes, i know. And a few month back you could get the PML 711A-RO around 220 € incl VAT. Seems that they increased prices drastically. Luckily i bought them at the old price last year.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 09:53:48 pm
content: Sadly it's hard to get hold of the much more unique PMK 20x probes - these look to be a good balance between input C and attenuation (you can get lower input capacitance in a 100x but at a massive attenuation cost, while the 20x ones are quite a bit lower than the 10x while not throwing too much signal out the window).

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 01:14:54 am
content: Speaking of the PMK 20x probes, I always wondered if the 1GHz Tek probes weren't using the same trick to extend bandwidth. Does anyone here have a pair handy to measure?

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 06:10:57 am
content: Quote from: Hydron on February 20, 2023, 09:53:48 pmSeems, the PML series has some 20:1 probes. I've attached the datasheet here as well.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2023, 02:52:24 am
content: Since MXO4 claims a record in waveform updates/sec, it would be good to know how the update rate changes with the number of channels turned on at the same time and the number of waveform points that is more than the minimum.

author: nimish
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 04:28:15 am
content: Quote from: luudee on February 11, 2023, 05:07:48 pmWho is taping out an 8nm ASIC for $10M? Can they share their alien technology?When it costs in the millions for a mask-set respin I'm not surprised SW has to pick up the tab. The issue is that good SWE cost a lot of $ and HW companies simply don't pay enough. Why would you work on hard EDA/firmware problems when you can write JS for 4x the $?

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 05:30:17 am
content: Quote from: nimish on February 23, 2023, 04:28:15 amNot sure how to react to your silly post. 4 years ago we taped out an 8 nm ASIC with Samsung, NRE was about $9.8 Mil USD.That did not include the $800K for back end services (3rd party), and god only know how much on engineering ...Quote from: nimish on February 23, 2023, 04:28:15 amlol

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 06:34:31 am
content: Quote from: luudee on February 11, 2023, 05:07:48 pmThis.By the time the marketing machine has got the software into people's hands there's usually an "update available".

author: nimish
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 07:53:08 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on February 23, 2023, 05:30:17 amSure, if you exclude all of the actual costs then you can make it as cheap as you like...lolI've heard of ~ $10MM for a full TSMC 7nm mask-set, maybe Samsung low-balled you since their 8nm sucked.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 12:56:38 am
content: Quote from: nimish on February 23, 2023, 07:53:08 pmDoes anyone else ever think about the insaneness of just casually mentioning geometries like this?One companies 7nm is great, but anothers 8nm sucks.8NANOmeters!*insert mind blow emoji*

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 01:43:01 am
content: Now go figure what an individual MosFet cost in a production chipMind blowing indeed!!Best,

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 04:54:12 am
content: Quote from: nimish on February 23, 2023, 07:53:08 pmRemember, the mask NRE fluctuates very widely. When a new node comes out, you can see quotes as highas $20Mil. This typically falls very quickly over the next 12 months, and then keeps on falling much slower forthe rest of the nodes' life. Since then, TSMC introduced 5nm, 3nm and is working on 2nm. Yes, Dave it's insane!Yes, you are right, Samsung 8nm wasn't as great as TSMCs 7nm. But when you are not Apple or Qualcomm,(and a couple of other stars), you'll never get into TSMC ... even GIC will not return you calls/emails ....luudee

author: nimish
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 06:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on February 24, 2023, 04:54:12 amOf course. That's just the mask set cost, not including the tens of millions/hundreds of millions in salaries, verification, IP and such. And since Samsung's "8nm" was "10nm++" I guess that you got a great price on an old node even 4 years ago.Re TSMC: definitely not on the very latest nodes since Apple etc have bought up the entire capacity. Older nodes like 7FF are definitely available....but you are a small fry to TSMC.By the way the node names have nothing to do with anything physical on the chip anymore, they are just marketing names. Nothing on the TSMC 3nm is actually 3nm except maybe thin film thickness

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 10:15:59 pm
content: Batronix (not only) offering the MXO4-BNDL promo.1.5Ghz, all decoders, bode, function-gen included.For only 23681€https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-MXO4-BNDL.html

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 10:07:07 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on April 08, 2023, 10:15:59 pmBargin if your company capex limit is €25k

author: zhoneybee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 12:35:40 am
content: Would this scope be a good choice for me? I figured it'd be good to ask here instead starting another "which scope?" thread.I work on embedded firmware, these days smart-home devices operating in 900 MHz band. My office has DS1104Zs for us firmware guys and an older 3 GHz Tek MDO with a built-in spectrum analyzer claimed by our EE, but I'd like to have my own bit of kit. I'd prefer at least 200 MHz of bandwidth with an upgrade path to 1+ GHz, 4 analog channels, and I2C / SPI decoding. I2S would be nice too. I admittedly don't know whether a built-in SA is worth the premium for me; I don't get enough opportunity with the one at work to become proficient.In terms of budget, I'd feel great at $5k USD, good at $10k, and stretched thin by $20k. Before the MXO4 had been announced, I'd been looking at a Keysight MSOX3204G. The MXO4 out-specs it in a lot of ways and has a SA, but the MSO and protocol-decoding options drive the price up to $14k, and at that point I'm sorely tempted just to buy the bundle. At the same time my ill-nurtured thrifty side is encouraging me to seriously consider what I truly need and budget accordingly. The dream would be to pick up an MXO4 at the base price and purchase a promotional bundle of options for a song later on, but that might just be a dream.Any advice? I'm open to suggestions for other scopes too.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 12:48:19 am
content: Quote from: zhoneybee on April 30, 2023, 12:35:40 amWelcome to the forum.The $3,690 SDS5034X is worthy of consideration too with upgrade available to 500 Mhz however to go higher you need the more expensive SDS5054X.See here:https://siglentna.com/product/bandwidth-upgrade-500-to-1-ghz-2-channel-models/

author: zhoneybee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 12:58:52 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 30, 2023, 12:48:19 amThanks, I'll review that. Is it not an option to purchase the SDS5034X, upgrade to 500 MHz, and later upgrade to 1 GHz?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 01:01:58 am
content: Quote from: zhoneybee on April 30, 2023, 12:58:52 amYup you certainly can do that but entry cost is higher at $5,890.They have a better front end for the higher BW's.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 01:31:59 am
content: QuoteHm?This is a model-specific thread here...

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 01:44:35 am
content: Quote from: zhoneybee on April 30, 2023, 12:35:40 amYes, it would be an excellent choiceQuote from: zhoneybee on April 30, 2023, 12:35:40 amAnd what better way to become proficient than having a scope with SA?In all honesty, I can't say that "everyone needs spectrum analysis" because that simply isn't true. However, in my experience, once someone learns how and when to use spectrum analysis, it becomes very hard for them to use a scope without it: there are many, many cases where looking at spectrum can help solve or identify an issue that would be very difficult to see in the time domain.Quote from: zhoneybee on April 30, 2023, 12:35:40 amI can't comment on future promotions or bundle options, but I can tell you that the MXO4 is an entirely new generation of oscilloscopes and is about as "future proof" as you can get in terms of performance and support across the entire T&M industry. We spent many years developing the MXO and its custom ASIC (which is where most of the cutting edge specs come from), and we are adding significant functions and features with each new release.Obviously, I'm just alittlebiased here, but the MXO is the first oscilloscope I've been really excited about in a long time

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 03:36:14 am
content: Lively FFTs with spectrum analyzer controls areamazingwhen sniffing around for a signal that has been highly attenuated or superimposed on another. Even at low frequency the extreme dynamic range of spectrum analysis is a very useful complement to time domain capabilities. That's what brought me to R&S scopes, the MXO clearly takes it to the next level, and I've been sorely tempted by the MXO4 even though I really need to wait for the MXO6 (or whatever it winds up being called).

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 02:07:18 pm
content: Hi! I think even non-regular-users of standalone spectrum analyzers will frequently find themselves using the SA capability on the MXO, they will pick up the benefits of it quickly. It is easier to use than older FFT functions in 'scopes, and different from the swept spectrum analyzers in terms of speed and the view it provides.There's some video capture of it here. Often it can be challenging to see from the oscilloscope trace if there even is a problem (and where it could be originating from), but the spectral view reveals it.(from time 9min24sec):

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 11:08:13 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on April 30, 2023, 01:44:35 amThe Keysight Megazoom IV ASIC is now over 12 years oldNot even a sniff of the Megazoom V...i still haven't done the teardown of the MXO

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 11:16:52 am
content: Quote from: zhoneybee on April 30, 2023, 12:35:40 amNothing comes close to the MXO4 in terms of integrated spectrum analyser capability. It's pretty much a world apart from other scopes.QuoteTalk to your local dealer, they might be able to do something for you in terms of bundling?I'm not sure the Keysight 3000 would outspec the MXO in anything?

author: zhoneybee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 02:43:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 01, 2023, 11:16:52 amIt doesn't, but it does include everything I know that I need for less than the MXO4 with the options I'd want. The specs were adequate (more than adequate, really) when I'd first considered it as an option, and they still are.Good point with the local dealer, I'll investigate.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 09:05:56 am
content: If your use case includes protocol decoding, then you will want deep memory as well. Keep in mind that the actual memory depth in normal use cases is 1/4that mostof what it says on the sticker on the Megazoom based Keysight scopes.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 10:39:33 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2023, 09:05:56 amThat is very true, but...Megazoom extracts data for decoding directly from input by use of comparator. It does not convert analog data to digital.So when you are decoding, even if signal looks very bad in analog domain, decode will work just fine.That is the reason why Keysight users don't complain so much about long memory when decoding...It is not as good as proper long memory scope but not as bad as it might seem..But anyways, MXO4 is much more modern scope. Only thing that is working for Megazooms is that MXO4 still don't have all the same protocols supported...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 10:42:12 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 02, 2023, 10:39:33 amMy experience is different. One of the things lacking is an adjustable hysterisis which can mess up decoding on Keysight scopes.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 10:47:34 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 02, 2023, 10:42:12 am3000T works much better than old 7000...But still I agree with you, there are better scopes for the money today..unless you specifically need some feature in which case that is what matters..

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 02:05:19 pm
content: I have the 1.5Ghz model coming later in the week, we'll see how it stacks up against the HDO6000B, the introductory deals R&S are offering currently makes this a genuine proper high end scope for semi sensible outlay, although the probe costs maybe the sticking point.However I am keen to see the FFT in action, as I have always felt R&S offer the best RF abilities of the big four, although Keysight has some quality instruments here as well.Just in the process of acquiring an FSW so a few more members of the bench are now from Munich!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2023, 12:30:48 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 02, 2023, 02:05:19 pmThird party probes?

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2023, 02:21:12 am
content: A bit weird that a 12-bit scope of this calibre does not have power analysis.Is it on the development roadmap, and is it going to be a paid option? Kinda sucks if you get the all included bundle deal today, but have to pay again for power analysis down the road.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2023, 03:14:59 am
content: Hi DaveMy thoughts on this, people who are going to purchase one of these fine scopes imho primarily for the low noise capability as well the FFT performanceFor that performance to be fully realised I would suggest that correctly R&S interfaced probes would give a better result although always happy to be proved wrong especially in the wallet department!That said I did have a demonstration hew micsig fibre optic probe a week or so back and its a far more preferable option that Lecroys offering , plus its pretty darn good as well accuracy wiseI feel it will come down to the option & probe costs for the person purchasing the scopeCurrently my Lecroy probe count stands at 22 so to swap maybe cost prohibitiveYes you can make some respectable DIY probes that would work no question, although I would suspect that the majority of potential purchases will opt for the factory optionsWill also take into account that its new product and they have been making firmware changes regularly to keep onto of the teething troubles also its not like Keysights MXR failed at starting gate damp squib.R&S being very proactive with this unit imhoThe MX04 is due Friday so will report over the weekend

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2023, 10:08:27 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 03, 2023, 03:14:59 amMust confess that I have high expectations regarding your MXO4 vs LeCroy comparisons.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2023, 12:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: TopQuark on May 03, 2023, 02:21:12 amYes, power analysis is on the MXO4 roadmap and is being actively worked on right now.Question: are there any particular features or functions you'd like in power analysis and/or do you have a list of requirements? We're very interestedEdit: yes, it will be a paid option, similar to our other oscilloscopes that support this (K31 option)https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/Option_sheet_-_RTx-K31__power_analysis_v1.10.pdfBut again, we're interested in hearing feedback about what you'd like / need in a power analysis option. If you post (or PM) your feedback, I can guarantee that our product management team will see it

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 03:03:01 pm
content: I have a suggestion, I hope it is useful; maybe it could be interesting as part of K31 to have an app to perform double pulse testing. The waveform generator has more than enough performance for this.It would be neat if the app could automatically show the inductance, as well as turn-on time and reverse recovery, as either measurements, or in different colours or different windows. Basically, the problem this would solve is that it would become a handy app to solve inductance, saturation, diode and MOSFET measurements. It could be called a "Semiconductor Testbed" or "Semiconductor Efficiency" app (even though it would also provide inductor measurements) especially if more features were added to the app in future.This can be done without K31 today, but would require AWG capability to construct the double pulse, and would probably end up using all the math channels depending on how much of it was desired to be automated on the display. I don't entirely have a full idea currently regarding the best way for such an app's workflow or display the results, but at first thought it seems like a useful problem to solve.Also, as a benefit to all users (not just K31), it would be nice if the harmonics feature could trickle down to a general harmonic distortion measurement capability, along with the remote control commands for it, because there are uses beyond power analysis tasks for that, i.e. kill two birds with one stone. It would be great for quick audio analysis. Incidentally, remote control commands to access the spectrum trace would be neat too (currently it requires file transfer).Anyway, I hope these ideas are useful.

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 04:08:34 pm
content: Another thing that could be really interesting for power analysis could be magnetics characterization (B-H curve).Say you have to characterize a ferrite core, I think the gist of it would look something like: Wind two winding, primary for magnetizing the core, secondary winding for sensing.- AWG drives primary, an amplifier is probably needed to get reasonable current into the primary to drive it into saturation.- Measure current into primary + have user input number of pri turns and you get field strength (H), roughly.- Measure and integrate secondary voltage + have user input number of sec turns and you get flux density (B), roughly.- Plot in XY and you should have a BH curve.- Stuff like saturation flux density, coercive force, remanence, hysteresis losses etc. can be calculated with maths.- Some kind of offset/servo is probably needed to keep the secondary voltage integration in check.- AWG allows measurement of B-H curves across different frequencies.Something like that, idk.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 05:25:59 pm
content: Do we have this on our HD ?Our two "great" lecroy have it.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 06:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on May 04, 2023, 03:03:01 pmQuote from: TopQuark on May 04, 2023, 04:08:34 pmThanks for the feedback! I'll definitely pass them on to our scope product management team.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 09:04:31 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 04, 2023, 05:25:59 pmDescription of the PA option :https://teledynelecroy.com/options/productseries.aspx?mseries=441&groupid=22

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 11:08:23 pm
content: Quote from: TopQuark on May 04, 2023, 04:08:34 pmEven if niche, that sort of stuff looks very impressive in marketing campaings, just say'n

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2023, 11:11:26 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 03, 2023, 03:14:59 amUltimately though, there is nothing special about same manufacturer intergated probes, they are interface nicers. It comes down the specs. A third party probe may actually have better performance than the ones from the manufacturer, but you might have to set it up maually which isn't a huge deal.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2023, 05:32:03 pm
content: Well R&S UK delivered on their promise, early this morning UPS duly dropped off a demo bundle version of the MX04 with some probes I requested.Just taken it out of its substanical protective packaging, not the usual R&S Germanic semi boat anchor build,but we are talking one tier above entry level for R&S, the inital feel and touch of the unit to me is a wee bit tacky. However we have to take into account of the price bracket and features/build costs and in use ability before making any comments. Size is nice its on par with the newer Siglents SDS2000 & 6000 models, Lecoy's Wave surfer HD etc. Front panel protector fits a lot easier than the afore mentioned units.More over the weekend.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2023, 07:22:38 pm
content: Here some "true" screenshots of the power analyzer option, the menus..

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2023, 07:30:14 pm
content: Hi MartinI have some of the Lecroy PA option in use if you like.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2023, 07:42:33 pm
content: Nice oneWe use the spectrum and power options from our lecroys(WR and HDO) far too infrequently, but it's good to know we have them

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 06:10:12 pm
content: So having been living with the MX04 for a few days now, easy size on the bench, screen works well pretty glare free, not really going to say to much at the moment other than the FFT is one of the most nicest & intutive to set up on a scope (given it's a scope not a SA!).Been playing around with some PLL's in the last week thought it would make a good test given they are low frequency.One really simple but nice feature, when saving to a usb stick the MX04 automatically creates a dedicated folder (labelled MX04 unsprisingly!) and files them away according, simple but a nice touch imho.This is also one VERY quiet piece of equipment, like almost whisper quiet!More to following in the coming weeks...

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 08:58:32 pm
content: Some of the MX04 comparsions being performed back to back with a Lecroy 6054HD) & Wavepro 404HD.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 02:16:53 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 10, 2023, 06:10:12 pmUnderrated feature in test gear IMO.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 05:06:25 pm
content: With today's lab areas being generally samller, personally I find that quietness & physical size are more important than they used to be, the MX04 is the quietest digital (Possibly of all of the) scope (s) I have every had here in the lab, no small achievement.Today, I have charactorising some filters and taking a look in depth at some GDPSO supply rails with the MX04, possibly over the weekend some protocol analysis with I2C as well.A couple more really neat features the FR (Bode plot) wizard is a dream to use & the quick zoom button is cool as well.Jury is out on the functionality of the screen layout, while the drop down menu's are comprehensive they are also a little distracting for myself.Onwards and upwards as they say.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 07:16:14 pm
content: I really, really like this scope....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 11:43:12 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 11, 2023, 05:06:25 pmI find the UI a bit "all over the shop" is the best description. Some thing are great, others you ask why they did that.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 03:18:03 pm
content: Hi DaveI would suggest that is a fair assement of what I'm seeing here as well. It's like they have tgaken the other scope manufucturers GUI's and borrowed certain aspects and stuck it togther. Some items are great others are little more than an after thought, zoom discriptor box would be nice as well. It's not that intuitive as well as it's my 6th day with the MX04. These can be rectified in FW so its not a earth shattering issue I feel.Some indepth look at cabling on Leo Bodnar clock (usb powered) using the 12 bit zoom on both the R&S and Lecroy same setting on both scopes and using both BNC outputs simultaneously. No HD or ERES filters applied using max bandwidth on both scopes 5GS/s SR & 2.5K samples on each scope HTB 50ns / VTA 250mV with 960mV offsetCable A is a very well known quality T&E 50Ohm coax type BW 6GHz. Cable B is more suitable for higher daylight number upto 26Ghz both are 50Ohm impedance terminations.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 06:23:43 pm
content: Some images of MX04 using the fully active ZD-10 differential probe on a low level clock signal in conjunction with the FFT both in peak table & peak on waveform mode. I did notice that the if you either of these two options the wave form pattern plus the harmonic marker lines & FFT itself pulsate (very fast) possible in time with the spectrum sweep speed? Its distracting in the least. The peak table so far as I can work out itsn't moveable on the screen (happy to be assisted here though!)Probe set up and calibration simple and intutitive scope recognised all the different probes I have with the MX04 no problem as it should be.Still amazed by how quiet this scope is, its uncannySecond monitor output is spot on and a very useful, the Lecroy's have this feature in 4K, Rigol does as well though 1080P, either way its handy to have imho.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2023, 03:04:18 pm
content: This board will not let post this review, I have tried splitting up the posts into two still comes back with this errorNo profanity in there or didgy links any ideas?"Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator."

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2023, 06:27:01 pm
content: R&S MXO4 review round upby @Sighound36:"Rhode collected the scope at the end of last week, though Dillbert here forgot to pack the scope cover! (Insert appropriate idiot gag here lol) All rectified now.I would like to thank the team @ R&S UK for their quality service and back throughout the process particularly Joel Jessop & project manager oscilloscopes @ R&S UK Nick Le Bas who’s technical feedback and assistance has been first class.The MX04 had been with me for over two weeks, I made of point of using it exclusively for my day-to-day R&D, debug and audio investigations. Only used the Lecroy’s for direct comparison purposes.Well in the previous posts you can read my thoughts on the use of the instrument.So, to the round up:Thoughts on the experience which the scope imparted on myself were very positive.I would like to point out first that we have been 12-bit scope users for over four years, so we are well versed in their benefits of much lower noise & higher accuracy measurement potential. We are an SME company and have five employees and are involved with ultra-quiet power supplies/IoT development (home & wearable tech) some EV work /Green energy projects/Digital audio products. The company has 20+ scopes in various locations and eight of them are Lecroy’s so we are no strangers to 12bit accuracy.The Rhode & Schwarz MX04 is the company’s first venture into 12-bit ADC scope production and for myself its really good first entrance into this segment of the market. Its nice constructed, great form factor sits on the bench easily and comfortably. Screen is good and I love the bezel less formfactor these days. Probes mount and dismount with a quality feel, and engage with that clunk you would expect from a name like R&S.The scope boot up time is pretty ‘smick’ as Dave would utter, from memory its under a minute or there abouts.The one item that really strikes you, is this scope is seriously quiet, it is deathly quiet, although that’s all down to being totally embedded hardware I suspect and Nick informed that the FFT has its own processing section as well (which I suspected due to the speed of said feature!)Stock memory is 400Meg and let’s be honest for most users this is more than they will every use, although expandable to 800Meg should you wish (cost option)Its sample rate on two channels is the norm for this instrument sector Lecroy’s Wavesurfer 4000HD is 5GS/s on two channels, Rigol DHO4000 is 4GS/s and the Siglent SDS6000A is 5GS/s.So, the MX04 is one really neat package that’s quiet as a whisper with lack of bench presence (space wise), great screen with nice touch gesture ability as well.Connectivity is all there, RJ45/USB/HDMI/Ref in etc/DSO 16 channels and options twin channel generator.4.5 million wave forms impressive, 18-bit humm only available with the 20Mhz BW restriction in place and realistically its between 14 & 16bits depending on what BW and sample rate you are using.Loan scope I used didn’t come with the digital probe set so I can’t comment on that aspect of the scope sorry.The MX04 fast acquisition time, images on the screen looked crisp and clean easy to identify signal fluctuations and time lapse triggering set up points when looking for those rare event captures.The FFT is in all honest what I expect from agreeably the best RF measurement company today (maybe the Keysight UXA has some claim to that). Anyway, its fast, precise, easy to read and to SET up one area I appreciated over my Lecroy. The image presented is top draw in the FFT department.R&S know RF like very few others, so if I was going to entice potential sales from other scope manufacturers why not play to my strengths, it will attract certain buyers no question and that is what all this is really about sales after all.Given that R&S are relative newcomers to the scope market, they have come on a long way since they entered this market and given, they are privately owned it shows commitment to longer term projects and ranges.Summing up, this scope warrants more detailed reply than the half baked Keysight MXR offering three years ago (nine of the circles I more in industry wise use these devices I found yet)What I liked:Compact & clean lines on the MX04Its inconspicuousness on your lab or work bench due to its formfactor and quietness did I mention its very quiet!Boot up time & screen clear & crisp viewsAccuracy, repeatability & instrument confidence for myself VERY IMPORTANT****Pricing**** see below.HDMI output also very good, for myself this would be a deal breaker for others no.Probe quality, identification & calibration excellent.Not so liked:The GUI, sorry it’s a mishmash of Keysight/Teledyne/R&S take ways, way too busy. Yes, lots of drop-down options but no flow to using the instrument.Resolution enhancement HD yes all the others have a software defined type of filter, but having an HD button that lights up well ok? 18 bits @ 20Mhz or less I know it’s all number crunching but did it really give my anything that I don’t already have Er... no.The lights that are around the main rotary knobs are a little bright and distracting (Personal I know).When in zoom mode, no indication of that, a zoom descriptor box next to the channel being used box would also be helpful.Being able to use the mouse to click and highlight the portions of the waveform of interest to appear rather that showing that four-way arrow indicator.When the FFT peak table or marker functions, on a split screen both the FFT & waveform ‘pulsated’ at the same time possibly on the sweep?The peak table I just couldn’t move it from the lower left-hand corner which I found strange, used both fingers and mouse. With the frequency markers on the harmonic spurs which were nice and ledge able they looked worse as the two screens pulsed.The lack of decoding & serial data apps is telling at the moment, I know that a power analysis app is in the pipeline soon.Some of them may seem small gripes which I can see and understand, however if you are going to lay out this coinage then you need to feel comfortable with all aspects of your chosen instrument and this for some maybe a sticking point, for others no issues, fully appreciate that.If having a ‘smick’ FFT and 18 bits in a nice rounded package for you then the MX04 must be on your audition list near the top.Costings, when this was released the top of line model was close on 30K, today 9 months later the top-of-the-line model with all options and gennys is around 19K for the 1Ghz model I was loaned (plus vat here in the UK). A 200Mhz basic model is £7460 which I would suggest is tempting for a few folks and SME’s I feel. Not sure this is a hacker special though lolDo I feel it was the world’s most powerful scope? Some, marketing blurb yes lol, yes it more than capable in multiple areas and does that very well indeed and without fuss. However not once did I feel hey, I missing something here apart from the very slick FFT and set up menu absolutely 100% its just right no question.The Lecroy’s are computationally more powerful (just not geared for 4M waveforms plus) with dedicated apps & the way their MAUI OS runs, but they are powerful PC’s in essence. In fairness the MX04 is ahead of the Wavesurfer 4000HD same sample rate and runs 2.5GS/s on all four channels and slightly better than the HDO4000 which has 10GS/s rate. Though these have far more apps and mature OS.That said, firmware and features will grow with the R&S MX04 over time, it’s a new platform and with their future ranges not too far away and greater bandwidths and sample rates in the offering there is a lot of promise that will be delivered by R&S I feel.The package has been engineered to shake up the market and they (R&S) have worked hard to achieve this level of performance. Respect is due here.Would I change for the MX04, no we are too far down the Lecroy road and probe costs are the biggest outlay here. However as good as the MX04 and it is decent, it’s no 6000 series Lecory, but you do pay a premium for this. IMHO the GUI is far more intuitive and useable, plus the tool box apps are many and very in depth. Very mature software with regular updates. The fact there is no Jitter/power integrity /power conversion /full serial embedded debug is critical for ourselves.For other potential purchased this may not register for you.What I can say is this if you are in the market for a quality scope at realistic pricing and are stuck in 8 bit land then, the R&S MX04 should be on your demonstration list no question at all.Thoroughly recommended B+/A-"by Sighound36

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2023, 06:34:14 pm
content: A big thanks to Sighound36 for his review (I was just the poster). I asked him to put in words his recent enjoyable sessions with the MXO4 and, this time, he wrote plenty! IMO that (subconsciously) says a lot of his experience.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2023, 08:02:51 pm
content: Big thanks to the review!Hopefully R&S will listen to the "not so likes"....

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2023, 10:12:21 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 07, 2023, 08:02:51 pmYes, we're definitely listeningI can't publicly comment on the MXO4 roadmap, but some of the "not so likes" are already being addressed.I'm not sure why people don't seem to appreciate HD mode: it's actually very useful in certain applications. In fact, I made a short video explaining HD mode, how it works, and where HD mode can add value

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2023, 09:26:28 am
content: For some reason the forum just would not let me post itHello PaulThe HD button is the same as ERS on the Lercoy though upto 15 bits (which is located in the main individual channel set up section, you can select the amount of bits in 0.5 bit steps) I have owned the previous RTO2000 scope which gave you '16 bits' 8 of them in software. and was used the HD thunderbird two luanch sequence.Comparing the two it did not offer anything I don't have already, However if you are not used to this level of refinement and the ability to 'hone in' on signals buried within the noise, then yes I can see this being quite a revaltion for the userNot taking away the fact is a great scope

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2023, 09:38:54 am
content: Apologies in the main review I forgot to mention two other quality points I missed off the list.MX04 'extra likes'Bode plot ability and set up wizard can't fault it spot on, simple intutive and for oursleves with filter characterisation almost essential (Lecroy take note!)A very small but neat feature of when saving any screen information to usb drive, the MX04 automatically sets up and labels a file named MX04, may not seem a great deal but if in the heat of battle and you need a quick one-shot screen grab of an important event, you will not miss it by having to set up and label a file. Rather than going back a trawling through many files to find it.Like I mentions simple, but very useful

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 08:29:49 am
content: Just got my MXO4 eval unit !This thing is huge!!! It makes my Siglent 5104X look like a toy ! The screen is gigantic.More later !luudee

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 08:39:23 am
content: I actually found it about average size wise, although that depends on the size of your bench in fairness, it's very close to the HDO6000A size. Let us know how you get on with this quality scopeShortly I will have another review of some great Rohde & Schwarz equipment the FPL spectrum analyser.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2023, 06:41:03 am
content: Quote from: luudee on June 26, 2023, 08:29:49 amNo one has ever asked us to make the screen smallerAnd there's also an HDMI output, so you can go even bigger ....

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2023, 10:38:10 am
content: My MXO4 Review------------------------Disclaimer: I am not a professional reviewer, these are just someobservation from using the MXO4 for 7 days.Looking through the forum, I feel like Sighound36 did a great jobreviewing the MXO4. I only have had mine for 7 days to play with,and focused mostly on the usability aspects and user interface.To learn how to use the MXO4 I pulled out one of my customersprojects, where we had some issues with SPI interface. I wantedto see if the MXO4 would be better or worse than my SDS5K.Previously, I had many issues with the SDS5K when I tried to dolarge captures. Unfortunately, the MXO4 exhibits very similar issues.It cannot decode a simple SPI interface. It also has issuestriggering properly. Yes, I had the voltage levels/threshold setcorrectly. I can see transitions and manually decode the correctvalues, but I was expecting the MXO to do that. I observed the samefailures in both Logic Analyzer mode and analog scope mode.The zoom feature of the MXO4 is great if you want to examine a partof signal wave form. Something like under or overshot, for example,it is great to zoom in. However, if you are trying to zoom in on alarge capture, the zoom function of the MXO4 is horrible and I can'tsee myself using that in real life debugging sessions. It is quitecommon for me to capture "long" transactions. In these cases whenI want to zoom in to examine a smaller section, the MXO4 zoomingbecomes useless. R&S should take a look at how Siglent implementedzooming and expend their zooming capabilities.Overall, the User Interface is very slow and buggy. The unit freezesrandomly, and requires a power cycle. Simple adjustments, likehorizontal zoom, can freeze the unit for up to 15 seconds, beforeit updates the screen.The UI & menus take a bit getting used to, that's not necessarilybad, but I did feel that the menus were confusing at times (speciallytrying to set up a trigger for SPI decoding, for example). Comparedto Siglent, I found they grouped the functions and menus more logically.For me, the MXO4 is just not worth it. My SDS5K that costs 1/4 ofthe MXO4, and does everything I need and in many areas much betterthan the MXO4. My next scope must have a faster user interface andexcel in decoding various protocols.luudee

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 02:15:38 am
content: Hello,From my perspective, I liked that the display could be set up to pack a lot of SPI decode visually on the screen, which is useful for data transactions of many dozens of bytes. Where a data transaction is even longer, for instance, involving hundreds of bytes (perhaps during a file read or write in an SPI Flash file system) then it was able to comfortably automatically decode while zoomed out to the view of the entire transactions.The protocol export functionality is also very impressive, in decent formats (particularly HTML and Python formats), allowing for further analysis (e.g. generation of ping-pong diagrams or for profiling).See here for an example of SPI decode (at time 23 minutes 33 seconds, if it doesn't automatically start from that point):The two screenshots show the scaling of the protocol decode view.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 10:43:30 am
content: Quote from: luudee on July 04, 2023, 10:38:10 amThis is very surprising to me: I've worked with the SPI decode extensively and it works very well. In fact, here's a short video I made a few weeks ago showing the MXO4 SPI decode in order to help diagnose issues people here were having decoding the SPI output of the Batronix demo board using other (non-MXO4) oscilloscopes:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scope-demoboard-from-batronix/msg4899155/#msg4899155I did an entire video showing how to configure and decode SPI on the MXO4I can post lots of other examples (screenshots, videos) showing the SPI decode on the MXO4 using a variety of SPI signal sources. It's worked every single time I've used it.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 10:47:09 am
content: Here's a video I made back in March while I was working on the "Understanding SPI" and "Decoding SPI" videos - MXO4 correctly (and easily) decoding SPI coming from a Raspberry Pi connected to a 7 segment displayand a screenshot of the MXO4 decoding SPI traffic correctly at > 40Mbps (also made back in March). The hex values are just "PAUL" in ASCII over and overThis one was made using the logic probes instead of analog probes.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 10:58:14 am
content: Quote from: luudee on July 04, 2023, 10:38:10 amWhich FW version were you using? This also is very surprising to me.It sounds very much like the unit you were using was not current hardware or firmware: we have many, many MXO4 users and there are many independent reviews of the MXO4, including Dave's own review (and he is absolutely not shy about pointing out problems) and they are all overwhelmingly positive and without the issues you are reporting.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 11:03:23 am
content: @Paul,I don't know what firmware the unit had that I was testing.I spent 7 days trying to make it decode a perfectly valid SPI stream (very long 256K transaction), and could not make it work.I stand by my review. It was not able to do any decoding, neither analog nor digital.I am glad to see you guys are looking in to it.luudee

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 12:53:05 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on July 13, 2023, 11:03:23 amWell, I can't say we're looking into it because we have lots of people using the SPI decode (myself included) and none of them have reported any issuesIf you do get a chance to reproduce the issue, please let us know. Unfortunately, without screenshots, settings, or a more detailed description of your setup, etc. there's no way for us to know why it wasn't working for you. I'm assuming you didn't contact tech support?Silly question: did the MXO4 you were using have the low speed serial decode option (MXO-K510)? If your MXO4 didn't have the software option, it would explain why you saw the signals but never saw a decode.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 12:58:14 pm
content: Never had that issue on the demonstration unit I loaned at all, I know there has been a few firmware updates since March

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 02:57:43 pm
content: 256k transactions may be too long for the decoding buffer to store.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2023, 06:32:52 pm
content: Hi,I wonder if the 256k bytes is related to reading or writing the entire contents of SPI memory. I tried capturing and decoding all at once, and for sure after about 110K bytes the decoding slows down a lot. However, in practice, perhaps it is far more likely to want to be able to traverse the data at boundaries, for instance grouped transactions of a higher-level protocol, or (if it is SPI memory) perhaps in pages of say 256 bytes. In that case, the MXO shines because of the history feature, to make it practical to thumb through, and it works very fast for that. I just tried that, in my case pages of 320 bytes, for a total of 800 pages, which is 256k total bytes (see image attachment). My SPI code (running on a Pi Pico) was coded to send groups of 8 bytes of data, with a start header (0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xaa) followed by a 4-byte sequence number, so I could easily see if anything was missed (it was not).That was with SPI, but in the past I have also tried RS-485, with 600k bytes (again using the history feature, to make it practical to view data). That is handy for DMX, where each payload is 512 bytes, but there could be hundreds of such payloads that need to be examined, moving forward/backward through every payload using forward/rewind buttons on the MXO History menu, like a tape recorder.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 03:21:15 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 13, 2023, 12:53:05 pmI would have assumed that the scope would have told me if the decoding feature was not available.I am pretty sure it was, as I was doing all kind of setting up ...One more, thing, the guys who are playing with SPI captures now, try to keep SPI_CS always low (asserted).See if it still locks and decodes.luudee

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 04:13:12 am
content: Hi,I have tried *CS permanently low from the first byte to the last byte, and it makes no difference, it works for me. Please see the attached screenshot.As mentioned, this is making use of the History feature, so I can page through the content, and the performance and decode is fast (I can take a video of it if required).If I do not use the history feature, as mentioned further up, I do see performance struggle with about 100k bytes of the decode. With the history feature, I have not seen any issue with 600k bytes (that's the max I have tried in the past, although that was with RS-485. With SPI, I have just tested 256k).If you have an example scenario that you can simulate with (say) a Raspberry Pi or Pi Pico, and a screenshot or video of what you see on your current setup, then anyone can try to set it up so that a precise comparison can be made if you like? Because otherwise, for all I know, unfortunately my SPI configuration or speed, or a dozen other things, may be completely different to what you used.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 05:13:08 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on July 14, 2023, 04:13:12 amThank you for the test.I don't know what to say. It does look like it is working for you. I wonder if I indeed had some very oldfirmware, which is also odd, why would R&S give me a scope with useless FW ?!In any case, my test case is a custom product I designed for a client., It has a CPU booting from SPIFLASH. We were trying to see where it was stopping to read the SPI FLASH, hence huge capture, etc ...At the end got it all working ...One more thing, what's the speed of your SPI bus ? In my case, it was running at 20 MHz.luudee

author: jusaca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 11:15:23 am
content: From the screenshot saying "Bitrate: 991600 kbps" I would assume the SPI clock to be set to 1 MHz

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 04:04:43 am
content: Just out of curiosity I tried using the analog channels today, to see what difference there is, using a 20 MHz (approx.) SPI clock. It is in the file calledspi-using-analog-channels.jpg. This example has 256,000 bytes of SPI data as before.The MXO 4 allows the creation of additional views of the data (called layouts in R&S terminology), and the next screenshot shows the SPI SCK line on a separate view to blow it up to see more detail (sch-magnified-view.jpg).What's neat is that it is possible to see any anomalies during the entire acquisition. In that example, a 100 pF load was deliberately applied to the SCK line part-way through the transfer, and it is possible to see the impact the load had on the analog signal as well as locating the data corruption (if the analog signal is significantly distorted).It's easy to find the anomaly, by dragging the slider (seeanomaly-located.jpg) until the visible waveform shows the corruption, and then the page of data has been identified.The final attached image just shows a temperature-colored view to see how much consistency there was for the SCK signal over time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:25:55 am
content: I assume the MXO4 also has reverse brightness. This makes an anomaly stand out even better (at least on the RTM3004 it does).

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 02:06:37 pm
content: That did it! It is in a different menu to the RTM3004, but found it amongst the settings options.There's several other options too, I've attached a screenshot of them.This is the definition of them in the user manual:"False colors": color changes gradually in a wide color spectrum."Single Event": single events and very seldom events appear yellow, a highercumulative occurrence is shown with blue color. This view helps to identify specificevents."Spectrum": colors display the wavelengths of the light. Low cumulative occurrenceis displayed blue like high wavelength."Temperature": color changes gradually from blue (low temperature) to red (hightemperature) with increasing cumulative occurrence.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 02:42:29 pm
content: Not a bad scope..

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2023, 09:00:17 pm
content: Hi, there's a newMXO 4 firmware update(version 1.4.2.2) since the end of last month! One feature that is great is the log-frequency-axis for the spectrum analyzer functionality. It seems to work well, here's a 4-minute video containing some quick experiments with it:

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2023, 09:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on August 11, 2023, 09:00:17 pmNice video - thanks!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 08:02:54 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on August 11, 2023, 09:00:17 pmBeauty. It almost seems you have a demoboard to show off the MXO. Very instructive examples and explanations.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 12:39:46 pm
content: Hi,Thanks! For the signals, Matlab was used to create some of them (and then stored them in the MXO 4), it directly accepts CSV format waveform files, provided there is a 43-line header (which can be copy-pasted from any waveform saved from the MXO itself). The 10 MHz signal was from an AD9954 chip (it was a custom PCB, but there are some ready-made modules on AliExpress, although I have not tried them).For the audio signals, it was using a cheap ADAU1401 DSP board (from AliExpress), the details are onGitHub. It is a low-cost way to create all sorts of tones/filters etc, all controlled from a Pi. (It could be done using a sound card and Matlab but I was planning to use the DSP chip for a standalone speech processor eventually, and be able to instruct it to notch out up to several tones simultaneously, and adjust bandwidth etc). The chip doesn't have a lot of processing power, there are better DSP modules on AliExpress, although they need a separate ADC/DAC (that is built-in to the ADAU1401 chip).

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 01:33:37 pm
content: @ shabaz. Nice video, and good selection of the waveforms to demo the new MXO4, well doneVery impressive display of the MXO4 SA type capabilities. The log frequency scale and speed of the performed Fourier Transform (not sure if it's an FFT or CZT) are very nice indeed.Wish we could afford one!!Best

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 05:11:31 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on August 12, 2023, 12:39:46 pmWow ... just wow. Very impressed.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 08:54:37 pm
content: Can the units of vertical scale be changed to V/sqrt(Hz) and plotted on log scale? Can the spectrum be averaged and then saved to a data file or to a reference spectrum?

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:05:08 pm
content: Hi,It supports a total of four options for the vertical scale (one is linear, in Volts, the rest are log power and voltage). The spectrum can be averaged, and the averaged spectrum can be saved to a data file, and to a reference spectrum. The data file format is CSV, possible to decode for instance with Python (see thespectrum_tool.pyread_csv function on line 46), including all the spectrum analyzer settings (including resolution bandwidth, window type setting, etc).

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 11:27:48 pm
content: ... In reality, there are never 18Bits. What counts is the effective number of bits, and a measurement of this reveals that the effective bits are below 11, regardless of what they claim. Look here:https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/to-enob-or-not-to-enob/The other manufacturers (and also R&S for their better scopes) give ENOB values in their specs. For the MXO, there are none (for a good reason).

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 03:39:05 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on August 12, 2023, 11:27:48 pmThanks for an amazing level of analysis! I think it's interesting to compare the spectra of the scopes directly. Picking only one largest peak obscures how "clean" the spectrum is and the level of white noise. In many cases having a second or third harmonic due to a non-linearity is not so bad. Also high resolution is often useful to see small features at the end of a large signal (like tail end of a decay) in a single shot. So SNR and DR can be useful characteristics in addition to SINAD and can also be converted to an ENOB, where "effective" has a different meaning.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 10:40:28 am
content: Quote from: WolfgangRight, Siglent for example, but also (and of course) Lecroy, even Rigol....For the HDO4000, for example, it was afaik 8.5 bits (without further details).Lecroy specifies between 8.4 and 8.7, depending on the bandwidth of the model (WS 4000HD), Siglent also.And Siglent are the only ones who write which parameters they used for this:QuoteI assume that lecroy measures similarly.And nobody knows how Rigol measured it.I would like to repeat your measurements on my siglent, but unfortunately I don't have the equipment(only a SDG2122X).But you described a self-built oscillator for this purpose, is there any more information about it?Gladly in a separate thread, otherwise this will be too offtopic here.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2023, 06:22:52 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 13, 2023, 10:40:28 amHi Martin,the ENOB test oscillator schematics is at the bottom of the ENOB page.regardsWolfgang

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 03:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on August 13, 2023, 03:39:05 amHi,I think different. A discerned "spike" in the spectrum corresponds to a perceivable "wiggle" in the time domain, and that, IMHO, hurts more than just a randomly increased noise level, as it can be mistaken for a "real" signal.It all depends on what kinds of signal you are working with.regardsWolfgang

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2023, 06:35:57 pm
content: Hi,(Hopefully people are not bored of looking at 'scope traces - I just thought these ones looked nice).I was working on a little project today, and by chance there was a good reminder to me that it is well worth checking at higher frequencies, for spurious emissions.The first screenshot (ac-before-modification.jpg) shows the problem, which was occurring with a BJT+transformer oscillator. I used the normal 'scope probe supplied with the MXO 4, connected to the output.That screenshot shows that visible parts of the anomaly could be spotted and zoomed-in, but the log-frequency-axis spectrum analysis was handy to see both the fundamental (25 kHz) and harmonics, as well as all manner of spurious content around 30 to 90 MHz.I had some small ferrite cores, I put them into the base of the transistors, and then the situation was greatly improved, as can be seen in the second screenshot.The photo shows the ferrite cores.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 06:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on August 13, 2023, 06:22:52 pmHi Wolfgang,Thank you for adding also the gerber files on the ENOB page.I´ve ordered the pcb (JLCPCB) and now......it ready for the first test.

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2023, 09:54:21 pm
content: I'm thinking of buying the MXO4 Bundle and have read the Specs and the Manual.What I'm missing is the XY-Mode that is standard even with the RTC1000. Does anybody know if the XY Mode will be implemented? And if so with Z-Mode?And I wonder if the Zone Key means Zone-Trigger an will set to work soon.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 09:35:06 pm
content: 7789€ incl. VAT for the 200Mhz ? This must be a fake...https://www.galaxus.de/en/s4/product/rohde-schwarz-mxo44-242-mixed-signal-table-oscilloscope-4-channel-analogue-analogue-digital-200mhz-d-23916761

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 09:50:23 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 02, 2023, 09:35:06 pmDunno... that seller is a Swiss company originally. Maybe there is some re-importing happening, and prices in Switzerland are lower? (Ha ha, not according to my experience travelling there...)Galaxus sell pretty much everything. The only time I ordered something from them (a Swiss-made household product which was not available elsewhere), they eventually canceled the order four weeks later, stating that the manufacturer had discontinued the product. They were polite and apologetic about it though and refunded my pre-payment right away.

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 09:57:52 pm
content: Here's one at Batronix for 7500 excl Vat:https://www.batronix.com/shop/sales/index.html

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 11:46:07 pm
content: HelloIgor from igorsLab had problems with Galaxushttps://www.igorslab.de/galaxus-toppt-media-markt-um-laengen-fiese-masche-mit-falschen-lieferterminen-und-einem-fiktiven-aussenlager/https://www.igorslab.de/en/galaxus-tops-media-markt-by-a-long-way-nasty-scam-with-false-delivery-dates-and-a-fictitious-external-warehouse-investigative/Best regardsegonotto

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2023, 02:01:16 am
content: Even down at 7289 EURO back in the first half of the year. 1/4-23Sketchy' if that also should carry EU VAT.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 05:35:17 am
content: I tried some third party probes with the MXO 4. These ones are for hands-free probing fine points on a PCB that might not have test points.I thought they were not bad; a nice problem-solver for the times you want free hands to focus on controlling other equipment, or spending a bit longer fine-tweaking captures or obtaining longer measurements - I used it for capturing long periods of slow I2C traffic.Annoyingly I purchased the model without the 10:1 attenuation indicator pin on the BNC connector : (

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 01:05:26 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 09:32:02 pmAny word on this?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 01:11:24 am
content: Quote from: Domitronic on September 28, 2022, 09:54:25 pmWeeeeeeelllll...Early brochures/datasheets and price lists for the MXO 4 listed the MXO4-K530 option (aerospace serial decode) both separately and as a component of the options bundle, and also mentioned mask testing as "coming in a future update". All mention of those has since vanished (as I suppose the Zone button on the front panel would, too, if it weren't hardware...).I also wish R&S were clearer on whether the digital channels do or do not require a software option. Buying the mixed-signal option includes two digital probes, but the MXO5 brochure claims you can just borrow them from another MXO4 or MXO5. (Meanwhile, the part number of said digital probes is shared among many other scope models, too.)

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 06:06:03 pm
content: Just wanted to share a screenshot if people are interested in seeing more of the spectrum analysis!I was looking at the output from a MAX2870 frequency synthesizer board (cheap board from AliExpress) and decided to try three different instruments. The settings are not like-for-like, admittedly, but to see the spectrum trace fidelity with the MXO is remarkable. The screenshots are for a 30 MHz signal, with the sweep across a wide spectrum range (20-400MHz) to see harmonics.The normal SAs take several seconds per sweep and so averaging is slower. The MXO display updated perhaps 50-100 times quicker, i.e. it was very real-time.One of the new features in the software release from last month, is menu pinch-to-zoom. I initially didn't understand the use-case for that. However, now it came in very handy to resize the spectrum controls menu, so it wouldn't get in the way of the trace, so that I could deliberately do a screenshot with the settings in there visible.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 11:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on February 19, 2024, 06:06:03 pmNice post!What software update from last month? I checked last week (and again just now) and the website still shows the October release, 2.0.3.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 11:44:07 pm
content: Thanks!Sorry, I just checked, I too am running F/W 2.0.3.0. I forgot I'd upgraded that toward the end of last year, and not a month ago.

author: rbe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 09:04:06 am
content: Greetings fellow EEs. I work as a design engineer specializing in power supplies, and I'm seriously contemplating the purchase of a R&S MXO44-242 variant. I've negotiated a discount of a few hundred euros from the initial advertised price. Despite this, it is still a relatively expensive piece of equipment and find myself a bit hesitant about making the final decision. I know this is a cutting edge oscilloscope with great specs, but it seems to lack several measurement/other options, which are available as separate purchases.In essence, I am trying to justify this purchase and wonder if there might be future special offers from R&S where they bundle these additional measurement options together at a more affordable price compared to buying them individually. I am aware of the 'MXO4-BNDL' that is currently selling here in Europe at around €20,000 (excl. VAT) with BW of 1.5 GHz and additional options, but this is definitely outside of my budget at the moment. I would like to hear your thoughts on this so I can clear up my mind going forward. Thanks in advance!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 07:22:10 pm
content: I think the market is a bit slow now in general, which is why everyone is extending their promos. So if you need something now, jump on it, but if you have something to use at the moment, I wouldn’t rush. There WILL be another special. And remember that the end of the year is when the sales reps have targets they want to reach, so that’s when you can negotiate a bit more.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2024, 12:55:46 am
content: i convinced my boss to spring for the MXO4-BNDL to replace an aging Tek MSO 4054. Only had it for a month, and I find the MXO4 to be leaps and bounds ahead of the Tek, though it's not a fair comparision to a much older instrument. The spectrum analyzer is really nice, very fast update rates. I have it mounted on a VESA monitor arm (with a quick disconnect), frees up some bench space. Can't add much that hasn't been covered by, say,@shabazand others. The included probes are 700 MHz, and feel very nice in the hand. Compared to the Tek P6139A, they are lighter and thinner, the cables are equally stiff. The spring-loaded tips are nice, but take a bit getting used to.I also ordered a single active RT-ZS20 1.5 GHz probe (I had a TAP1500 to work with the Tek). Again, haven't had much quality time with it yet, but it seems well made and feels nice in the hand. Unlike the TAP1500s, the probe body doesn't get uncomfortably warm.The MXO4's drawbacks I've come across so far:UI is a bit sluggish - using the vertical position dials to move the traces has a noticeable lag. Similar to the MSO 4054, but a lot worse than Keysight 3 or 4000 series. Really hoping R&S can improve this.Though I'm running the latest firmware, I've seen a few bugs pop up now and then. For example, if I leave the scope running for many days, it can get into a mode where the reference level indicator for the traces disappears, and the left and right borders of the screen start flashing, as if the traces are being overdrawn on top of the edges of the graticule. The only fix for this is to reboot the scope. Next time it happens, I'll take a video.When the scope is in the mode described above, the I2C decode seems to randomly not decode frames. May be related, but after the reboot it worked flawlesslyAfter running any of the apps, for example the frequency response app, the scope effectively does a factory preset, rather than returning to the previous settings.My place of work is such that it's hard for me to use the 'order the instrument today and pay for the options later' model since it's hard to justify a several kilodollar purchase that's 'just software' (I've had inventory management asking me where they can place the asset tags for a Fieldfox option I bought, for instance). The BNDL offer makes all this go away, and it was fortunate that we had the budget for it.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2024, 02:22:58 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on February 26, 2024, 12:55:46 amUnacceptable on a R&S device.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2024, 02:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on February 26, 2024, 12:55:46 amThanks for letting us know. If you haven't already, could you contact our North American Support Center about these issues? I'll try to reproduce them on my MXO4, but it would be helpful if you could open a case so that we can investigate and fix these issues.USA: Phone: 1-888-837-8772 (1-888-Test-RSA), email: customer.support@rsa.rohde-schwarz.comIncidentally, we do have a new FW release coming out very soon (checking on exact date right now) and that might address some of the things you're reporting.Thanks again!

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2024, 03:00:48 pm
content: Will do. I was going to try and capture a video of this, though the second time it happened I was in the middle of debugging a board and rebooted the scope to get things working (that's when I noticed the I2C decode issue).Also, just for completeness, the reference indicator of all tracesexcept the currently selected onedisappear when the scope gets into that funny mode.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2024, 04:19:19 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on February 26, 2024, 02:22:58 pmMaybe some kind of milli-second timer overflow issue. A tell tale sign is that the problem occurs after about 49 days.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2024, 10:34:30 pm
content: Today I found my MXO44 is no longer showing the reference marker (the triangle with 'C1', 'C3') for the selected channel again (my bad, I had the sense inverted in my previous post). In the attached screenshot, I have CH1 and CH3 with the included 700 MHz probes connected to the probe comp terminal. When the screenshot was taken, CH1 was selected. Note that while CH3's reference indicator is shown, CH1 is not.You will note that I have Settings->Appearance->'Show Labels' turned off (I find the labels distracting). On a hunch, I turned the setting back on, and used the touch-screen to toggle between CH1 and CH3 active, and both the channel reference markers are shown again. If I turn off the setting, they disappear again. Strangely, a reboot did *not* fix it this time, I have to keep the labels on to see the reference markers.I've also forwarded this message to R&S customer support.Not sure if I've had the scope powered for 49 days, but it has been left on continuously on the bench.

author: dav888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2024, 08:35:59 pm
content: interesting read.. seems like most scope vendors are stuck with old platformsI might be wrong, but even the new R&S MXO5 series, 500 Mpoints memory isn't super impressive considering you can get on a modern laptop. I like what Aaronia is doing with dual USB 3.x ports to double the throughput.just tried the MXO5 and sure, the update rate of 4.5m waveforms per second is high, but the user-interface makes it feel like a super-slow vintage computer, so even though you might be able to capture stuff, it feels like you're operating a vintage scope from late 90'sI can see a few brands listed in this thread. what are peoples opinion, 8 vs 10 vs 12-bit, who has the best UI (i.e. fast/smooth, not too much crappy touch ux with microscopic popup-dialogs and pc-buttons)

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2024, 11:12:37 pm
content: I think it's got a decent architecture. It's got (from what I can tell) a multi-core multi-tens-of-Gbps-throughput processor for its data plane, where more and more features can be added (I believe the MXO 5 uses two of them, i.e. the architecture can allow for paralleling in some fashion or other. A block diagram showing how acquisitions are processed and where features are run would be great to see!I don't know Aaronia products (I'm on the lookout for a decent SDR), their interface requirement depends on how much RF bandwidth needs to be captured, and it's very likely they offload any significant processing onto the PC like many SDRs. Perhaps I'm wrong; the system requirement for their software seems quite basic; 2GB RAM, 1.6 GHz quad-core CPU.I'm currently working with a NVIDIA Jetson board (funnily enough, troubleshooting it with an MXO4), and while the general processing cores on the NVIDIA chip (ARM) are nothing to write home about, the cores which will handle the actual data (CUDA cores) are more interesting, and data is processed without it having to pass through the ARM cores, once that data is in memory. For sure that's a different architecture too, I just bring it up as an example where an architecture can significantly differ from older PCs.I've looked back at my initial notes/issues lists (with the first release of the software) and UI slowness didn't make my list, everyone has different expectations there, not denying that some scopes may have a smoother UI, and I find some parts of workflow could be improved (for instance, when saving logic captures, it's a hassle saving in several formats, I'd rather save all formats in one go). But I hope they do focus on features as much as possible, get them out the door since they appear to have a decent software release cycle, and UI speed isn't currently so slow to be noticeable when in the zone getting captures/measurements etc. The response to touch always feels extremely snappy to me, but of course the buttons/rotary controls are interfaced differently to that).

author: rbe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2024, 08:38:13 am
content: New firmware version 2.1.3.2 has been released for those that own this piece of equipment.Download link:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/in/firmware/mxo4/Release notes :https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/pdm/firmware/1335_5272_00/MXO4_Release_Notes_2.1.3.2.pdf

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 11:19:45 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 28, 2022, 09:32:02 pmWell, it only took 23 months, but the firmware update 2.2 released a week ago* finally adds the Zone Trigger function! I shall have to install that when I’m back at work next week.It also seems to add Quad SPI decoding to the serial decoding option, as well as support for the RT-Z2T adapter for Tektronix active probes.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/firmware/mxo4/*the firmware file is dated July 10, but the release notes are dated August 15, so I guess that is when if actually got posted. The exact version is 2.2.2.1, but that seems to be the first public 2.2 release.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 11:29:22 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 24, 2024, 11:19:45 am

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 05:44:21 pm
content: TouchéYes, it did take a while but it's a really, really nice HW-based zone trigger. And it's freeShariar at The Signal Path talks about it in his recent teardown on the MXO5 (works the same on MXO4)(Zone trigger starts around 19:40)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 08:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on August 26, 2024, 05:44:21 pmThis may be something special for R&S customers.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 11:52:22 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on August 26, 2024, 05:44:21 pmI'll have to give it a try.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:02:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 26, 2024, 11:52:22 pmWe would love to see your review of it

author: Neoname
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 02:42:26 pm
content: I've just seen this, and installed the new firmware on my MXO4. There's also another major change: "2.2.2.1 On MXO 4, the number of spectrum increased from 1 to 4"After giving it an hour's testing, frankly I'm absolutely loving it. It's so straightforwards to use, and you can even set zone triggers on the spectrum analysis simultaneously to the waveform.I wish I'd been able to get some email notification about new firmware. My GLORIS account is set for a private individual, and going into R&S Instrument Manager just says "You are not authorized for this feature. The feature '' is not allowed for your user." so I can't register any of my R&S equipment. @pdenisowski any chance you could tell the team behind GLORIS that private individuals would like to register their equipment to know about firmware updates too?

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 03:57:25 pm
content: Quote from: Neoname on August 27, 2024, 02:42:26 pmWill look into this and PM you my work email as well. Thanks!

author: Neoname
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 09:52:22 pm
content: Having spent an evening playing with it now, and I honestly feel that this feature update really does deserve a lot more attention.If you've ever tried to hunt down something that's being obnoxious to pin down, even from the spectrum analysis: this just gets you straight there within a minute spent setting it up. Minimal effort is required to isolate exactly what you need. It's crazy how useful this is. There are even zone complex logic settings to make and/not/or/xor zone combinations if you need to go all out, and the logic can apply to zones across all channels and the spectrum analysis channels all simultaneously.I will note a UI flaw in the multiple zone logic. While editing in "Zone Trigger -> Logic Operator -> Trigger condition" it is too easy to delete the spaces between the Zones to create as example "Zone1 andZone2" and there is no way to reinsert a space back. There needs to be a spacebar under the Punctuation input to restore this, else the only thing that can be done is to "Clr" and start entering the Zone logic again.@pdenisowski Thanks! I'll reply to your PM.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 05:16:22 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 26, 2024, 11:52:22 pmIf you do, can you please also check ENOB values ? RS was a bit reluctant to publish those in the past ...ThanksUpdate: I have to correct myself, the MXO5 spec sheet does specifiy "effective number of bits", but with the usual ENOB abbreviation.The ENOB published is 10bits (10MHz, 80%FS, HD and filters on). Thats not better than the MXO4, which seems OK. AFAIK, they are using the same 12Bit Texas Instrument ADC than the MXO4.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 05:46:56 pm
content: I was at the automation expo today and ran into the R&S rep that sold us the MXO4 I have at work. We were discussing and playing with the zone trigger. He mentioned that it somewhat overlapped (in how it’s designed) with the mask test feature available on some other R&S scopes. That got us curious and we poked around all the menus of the demo MXO4 to see if mask testing has been added. Before you get your hopes up: it hasn’t.But it sure looks like it may be coming, because we found an entire menu full of other features that don’t seem to be implemented yet. To get to it, you have to edit the toolbar, and then there are “mask test” and “add mask” buttons you can add. Once enabled, pressing one of them opens a toolbar with mask testing and a menu with a bunch of other things, including a spectrogram. But actually trying to do anything doesn’t work. Trying to draw a mask just gives an error. I cannot rule out that these only appear with a demo all-features license installed, but I can say that these buttons/menu do not appear on an MXO5 (with demo license installed) with the prior firmware version.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 05:48:29 pm
content: Quote from: Neoname on August 27, 2024, 09:52:22 pmCan you use the on-screen keyboard (in the main menu) to type the space?

author: Neoname
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 06:42:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 28, 2024, 05:48:29 pmNo, there's no such option. You can see what the Zone combination logic menu looks like at 26min30 in the review video of the MXO5 linked earlierhere.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 06:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: Neoname on August 28, 2024, 06:42:47 pmI don’t mean the keypad in the dialog. I mean the actual on-screen keyboard found in the main menu, circled in red in the screenshot below.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 07:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: Neoname on August 27, 2024, 09:52:22 pmAlso:Yeah, the Zone Trigger UI has some rough edges, like the lack of Back button mentioned in the video. (Also, in the MXO GUI, why is the Back button within the settings area of some dialogs, and in the left navigation column of other dialogs? The MXO software definitely could use some feature rearranging, many options are split up in annoying ways.)As for the logic operators, R&S should definitely change the logical operators to be in all-caps, as is customary in electronics: AND, OR, XOR, NOT

author: Neoname
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 09:29:39 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 28, 2024, 06:50:53 pmI just checked for you, and sadly no keyboard comes up while inside that dialogue box if you touch or even if mouse click that button on your screenshot.I also tried plugging in a USB keyboard and the LAN-Web Control interface, and both allow you to enter spaces just fine to type your logical expression out.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 09:36:37 pm
content: Out of curiosity, does the on-screen keyboard work if you open itbeforeopening the Zone Trigger > Logic Operator dialog?

author: Neoname
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 09:40:32 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 28, 2024, 09:36:37 pmAlso no, it closes itself as you open the Trigger condition dialogue box.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 10:11:09 pm
content: Ah, gotcha. Thanks for testing. My MXO4 is at work and it’s midnight, so not easy for me to test on my own right this second. :p

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 07:40:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 28, 2024, 05:46:56 pmFYI, I tested this on the MXO4 at work and the same non-functional mask testing buttons and associated menu are present, so they are not dependent on a demo license. Since those menus all say "mouse" in them, I also tried using a USB mouse, but it made no difference.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 10:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 29, 2024, 07:40:53 pmSeem that R&S noticed it too. They recently revised the 2.2.2.1 release notes to include:Version Known Issues2.2.2.1 Toolbar functions for mask test without function2.2.2.1 In some instances, when using deep memory with math, instrument may requiredisabling math before saving waveform data

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2024, 01:17:15 pm
content: New firmware (2.3) has been released:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/firmware/mxo4/New functionality:Software trigger for serial bus protocols added. User selects A--B trigger with serial bus software trigger as B event. Software trigger point evaluated post-acquisition.New option R&S®MXO5-K530 MIL standard 1553 serial bus decodeAddition of user-defined filter import in math.Saving waveforms of multiple sources into a single zip file.Trigger action event to save a waveform on each trigger.Addition of device Selftest to Settings->Maintenance menu.Number of measurement gates is increased to eight.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 01:48:42 am
content: I tried the latest V2.4.2.1 firmware, and XY mode is there.That's not something that I will use often, but I know there was some interest from others, so here are a couple of screenshots of it. For the fancier screenshot of the two, I changed the display persistence slightly, and set the signal generator to alternate 1 MHz and 2 MHz tones on one channel, and set the other channel to a fixed 1 MHz signal, just for want of something for now. I will try to do some realistic use-cases at a later date when I have more time to experiment.In general the features work fairly orthogonally regardless of the source, so, with the XY mode as a source, for instance, cursors can be applied as expected to it. All the usual display preferences, grids, trace color and other similar adjustments appear to work fine on the XY display.Up to four XY mode displays are possible simultaneously.Interestingly measurements can be added to the XY mode, although, I couldn't see which ones would be relevant. I just don't use XY mode often enough to know what to look for. I could dust off the Tek or PicoScope to compare at some point, but this particular feature is low-pri for me currently.EDIT: I didn't take a screenshot yet, but it's possible to also add masks onto the XY mode (or spectrum). That will be very useful!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2025, 03:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on February 16, 2025, 01:48:42 amYepIt will be hardware-accelerated in an upcoming FW release. I'm planning to do a "getting started" video on it as well - already did videos on XY mode (in general) and Lissajous patterns

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 03:22:53 am
content: Nice clock!I built a (very crude) DIY SDR receiver a while back, and decided to see what the I/Q outputs looked like.The false color was quite effective. The screenshot shows the I/Q received output I get for an FM-modulated square wave source (the source is from the MXO 4 AWG's built-in modulation capability, reduced with an attenuator and applied to the RF input). It will be interesting to try other modulation at some point.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 11:03:06 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on February 20, 2025, 03:22:53 amThe signal is actually being created by a Chinese knock-off of the old Dutchtronix clock board (sadly, no longer in production / available) - it seems that most of them are sold today to power retro CRT-style desktop clocks. The board updates in real time as well, so I'll make a video and post it next time I'm playing around

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 11:22:20 am
content: XY diagrams are useful for component tests, curve tracing and displaying hysteresis loops, compound and amplitude-modulated oscillations and also passband curves of filters, amplifiers, resonant circuits etc. in addition to the FRA, which ends at 100 MHz on the MXO4.With a V/I tracker like the Tektronix TR 210 and its Chinese counterparts you can do power off troubleshooting of electronic circuits by using the technique of Analog Signature Analysis.(e.g. see also Hameg 203-5 or HZ-65)It would be great if in an upcoming firmware release the XYZ brightness control (also called Z-Blanking) would come back, as it is still present on the RTC1000 and also hidden on the RTB2000.Practical, for example, for blanking the connecting lines in IQ Constallation Diagrams and some other applications.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 02:44:31 pm
content: Quote from: Bernd_2 on March 20, 2025, 11:22:20 amCould you explain what you mean by this? You can use a combination of triggering and a very short time base to display constellation diagrams, etc. without connecting lines on all of our scopes (see attached example from RTM).To my knowledge, we (R&S) have never (yet!) had true XYZ mode on any of our scopes

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 08:38:27 pm
content: Dear Mr. Denisowski,Thank you very much for your quick reply and the example for solving the problem with clever settings for trigger and timebase.Unfortunately, I confused the RTC1000 with the HMO3000 in my post #301. I'm sorry about that.I saw someone activating Z-Mode on a RTB2004 with the following SCPI commands:“DISPlay:XY:ZSOurce CH4” to setup CH4 for Z-Input and“DISPlay:XY:ZMODe analog” to activate the Z-Mode.Unfortunately I don't know with which firmware version this was and it was several years ago and if this was also a mistake, I apologize for my assertion.Many thanks also for your instructive videos on youtube, which I always watch with great interest.Best regardsBernd

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 09:26:41 pm
content: Quote from: Bernd_2 on March 20, 2025, 08:38:27 pmHello,I'm interested in that too. In any case, these commands appear in the SCPI list of the RTA4000. Unfortunately, I don't know whether you can use them.They do not appear in the outdated manual and it is very difficult, if at all possible, for a private individual to obtain an up-to-date manual.Best regardsegonotto

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 10:12:25 pm
content: Quote from: Bernd_2 on March 20, 2025, 08:38:27 pmHi Bernd - Happy to help! And thank you for the kind words about my videos.Quote from: Bernd_2 on March 20, 2025, 08:38:27 pmHmmm .... interesting. I did a little digging and it appears that at one time this was a supported SCPI command on the now-discontinued (older) RTM2000 series scopes (and it was also supported on the HMO3000).https://allice.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/RS-RTM-Manual-Web.pdfTo be honest, I never knew this existed and never heard of it until now, so thank you very much for the pointer!Best,Paul

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 10:19:14 pm
content: Incidentally, if anyone wants to see XY mode used to display a constellation diagram in "vector" mode on an RTMhttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/IpVVt4W6Frw

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 06:03:07 pm
content: Hello,Here is another useful example for the use of XY diagrams in my opinion.Determining the deskew value for third-party differential and current probes is only possible manually and can be done quickly with an XY diagram for current and voltage.The attached pictures show this for the combination LeCroy DA1855A differential amplifier and the Micsig current probe CP1003B (30 ns) as well as for the Testec TT-SI7005 differential probe and the CP1003B (only 7.5 ns).Without deskew adjustment, the XY diagram is an ellipse whose opening depends on the skew value.With the exact deskew value, the XY diagram is then a straight line with a 45° gradient.Best RegardsBernd

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 07:20:22 pm
content: Hello,I now have try the commands:“DISPlay:XY:ZSOurce CH4” to setup CH4 for Z-Input and“DISPlay:XY:ZMODe analog” to activate the Z-Mode.on the RTA4000.There is no error message but unfortunately no effect either.Best regardsegonotto

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 07:11:44 pm
content: Hello,here I show an old method of measuring an unknown signal frequency if you only have an oscilloscope (with Z input) and an adjustable sine wave generator.You feed the signal to be measured once directly into the X input and then again into the Y input via an adjustable phase shifter.The phase shifter is then set so that a circle is formed (90°).Next, increase the frequency on the sine generator until the circle with its interruptions rotates more and more slowly until it comes to a complete standstill.The number of interruptions in the circle is then equal to the integer multiple of the frequency at the generator compared to the frequency to be measured.The attached pictures show the method with a two-channel generator (below) with 8 kHz for X and Y (90° phase shift) and a generator with 40 and 80 kHz instead of a phase shifter.Once with my old Hameg 412-5 from the late 70s, which has a Z input on the back, the function of which is not mentioned at all in the operating instructions.And then with an MSO5000, where channel 3 can be used as the Z input.

author: e0ne199
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 12:12:30 am
content: as someone coming from a poor country, I still cannot imagine the salary of those who can afford an oscilloscope of this caliber and how they can obtain them

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 06:24:13 am
content: Quote from: e0ne199 on March 24, 2025, 12:12:30 amI assure you that even in richest countries, people who can buy this for hobby are rare.As a side note, in rich countries wealth is very unevenly distributed.And getting worse lately..

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 09:49:00 am
content: MXO4 firmware v. 2.5.2.2 is out. New functionality:2.5.2.2 Configurable result table for power analysis (MXO4-K31) measurement quality. SCPIcommands for statistics available.2.5.2.2 Math traces can be selected as a source for power analysis (MXO4-K31).2.5.2.2 Trigger and Mask action Screenshot added2.5.2.2 Bus Measurements added by MXO4-K5002.5.2.2 I3C decoding now included in MXO4-K5502.5.2.2 HDF5 file (.h5) export for single and multi-channel added2.5.2.2 Added HCOPY:DATA? to retrieve screenshot via SCPIAlso @Shabaz posts about other functions and tests with H5 format and XY mode improvements on another thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/rs-mxo4-less-costs-more-why/msg5860709/#msg5860709but I think this thread is more appropriate to host events and discussions about MXO44.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2025, 12:13:04 am
content: LOL at the ending to that video

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 09:05:41 pm
content: MXO4 firmware v. 2.6.2.2 is out. New functionality (a lot):- Mount to network drive functionality added- ScopeSync functionality added to synchronize multiple scope- Basic Jitter analysis added by option MXO4-K12- User selection to see measurement result lines.- Image viewer allows to view screenshots on the device.- Recall of session files on MXO oscilloscopes (includes ref channels and saveset, but not data of analog/digital channels)- Multi-channel export supports CSV file format- Switching Loss and Turn On/Off added to Power Analysis option MXO4-K31- Custom NRZ (unclocked / clocked) now included in MXO4-K510- SpaceWire decoding now included in option MXO4-K530- Generators can be switched on and off conveniently via toolbar buttons- Reference curve supports opening .bin files from RTO/RTP- Track signals available as XY source- Acquisition timestamp available as ISO 8601 format by ACQ:HIST:ISODate?