[defaced thread] Affordable DMM Checkers: AC Reference... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Majorassburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2024, 10:56:19 pm
content: Will Start New Thread Later Without "tggzzz" Bullshit & Interference!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 09:54:57 am
content: Quote from: Majorassburn on April 22, 2024, 10:56:19 pmDescription states"LT1236-10 Ultra-Low-Drift5ppm10V Reference.""Final Trimto 10.0000 VDC @ 78F, 50% Humidity""NEW,Hand-Crafted in USA to Work PERFECTLY, No Returns."That's 5ppm per what? Day, month, year, degree C, degree F, supply voltage, RH, shock (since the ICs are socketed)?Picture below states "Designed to affordably verify the function of Digital Multimeters".Does that mean it is suitable to verify the function of my Agilent 34410A, Keithley 2015 THD, Solartron 7081?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 10:07:19 am
content: I would say not ... while i salute the projects, they can not compare to well designed lm399 and ltz1000 ones or the AD xxx series tooto check 6.5 digits meters you need more ...Resistors references are weak ... say ordinary

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 10:55:21 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on April 23, 2024, 10:07:19 am"You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment"https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Francis_Urquhart

author: Kosmic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 01:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: Majorassburn on April 22, 2024, 10:56:19 pmAlso, about those "0.05% Precision Resistors" do you know the temperature coefficient ? They look like your generic metal film and could be around 200-100 ppm/C. So even, if they were selected, change in ambient temperature could easily move them outside the 0.05% you are mentioning. I don't think calling them "Precision Resistor" is really accurate.I don't want to be overly negative but all that look a lot like a modern snake oil salesman. Of course your clients are not going to complain, they are not equipped to validate your claims. I'm not even sure you are.

author: Majorassburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 02:03:00 pm
content: deleted

author: Majorassburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 02:15:15 pm
content: deleted

author: Majorassburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 02:42:30 pm
content: deleted

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 05:27:26 pm
content: Quote from: Majorassburn on April 23, 2024, 02:42:30 pmTranslation: the after-sales literature has sufficient caveats to cover my arse.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 05:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: Majorassburn on April 23, 2024, 02:03:00 pmAnd yet your advertsdocontain "gobs of technical specifications". And omissions.In that context, consider Kosmic's earlier post:Quote from: Kosmic on April 23, 2024, 01:52:30 pmQuote from: Majorassburn on April 23, 2024, 02:03:00 pmIf you limited the claimed to, for example, "...verify the function of 3.5 digit Digital Multimeters", then the points wouldn't even arise.What you claim here (or "elsewhere") is irrelevant; what you claim in the advert is what matters.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 06:19:38 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/affordable-useful-ac-dc-references/

author: Majorassburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2024, 04:41:12 am
content: deleted

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 11:31:26 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 23, 2024, 05:40:08 pmThis is basic measurement theory. While you need higher resolution than the manufactured reference to measure its calibration error, that same calibration reference can then be used on on lower resolution instruments (assuming it is stable). If you only work in mA, you do not care what is going in pA.So a lot depends on claims for where it should be used. And the reliablity of the maker.FWIW, I bought one of the current and voltage references from AliExpress. It includes a sketchy paper claiming the actual values as measured by some reference down to the 7th decimal point. Turns out these measurements were within a couple counts on my Fluke 45, Fluke 8842, HP 358a and Keysight 1252.Have no idea why I bought it since all my instruments already agreed, but it was cheap and I am a measurement junkie (work down to 500 micro meters).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 12:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on April 27, 2024, 11:31:26 amYes, repeatedly.You bought it for fun. The only surprise is the degree of agreement.But, as you know, it is relatively cheap and easy to get all your instruments to agree with each other. It is much more difficult and expensive to get them to agree with two other people's instruments

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 03:25:40 pm
content: Yup!!Interestingly, all my instruments agreed as shipped. I cannot adjust the HP, the Keysight or the 8842.This is indicative of "inter rater" reliability;which is a precursor to validity; which in this case would be verification against a standard such as NIST.As for my uses, I kind of doubt I have time to get far enough along to be concerned with nano amps, let alone pico amps. I am just starting capacitors and inductors.I WOULD be very interested to learn where such measurements are used. I know it is not an issue of "trivial precision".FWIW, I have come to conclusion that the way to bring the world crashing to its knees is to end capacitors. Who the hell knew?Regards,Dewey

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2024, 08:39:28 pm
content: Thaaaat story happened in the past, it continues, and will be.but ... damn i missed "ULTRA HIGH PRECISION" with isolation board .....and ... honestly .... that board missed sticky copper foil , ( i assume, you know what im talking about)

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 12:28:36 am
content: Quote from: Majorassburn on April 22, 2024, 10:56:19 pmApparently you still have to grow that thicker skin. Why to open a new thread? Do you think there won't be people calling out your over-hyped shit?Quote from: tggzzz on April 23, 2024, 09:54:57 amThis ^^^ is over-hyping.Even worse, if you have to use that "Made in USA" as a sales argument, you are obviously a scammer. Homeland is the last refuge of scoundrels.If you are so confident your shit works PERFECTLY, you should accept returns OF COURSE.Quote from: Kosmic on April 23, 2024, 01:52:30 pm+1I think you should be banned. You are evidently using this forum to promote your sales. But the worse is, you are too much aggressive. If you can't take the very justified critics you receive, please go away. We don't need your burning ass here. Go care for your hemorrhoids elsewhere.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 04:13:40 am
content: Quote from: Majorassburn on April 22, 2024, 10:56:19 pmThis looks a lot like "Will delete history and repost to try to avoid genuine critique and sidestep the rule about not flogging products."(That said, both parties have been behaving poorly and letting their shit-flinging spill out into unrelated threads... so a mod hammer on both might be called for.)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 08:53:39 am
content: And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a good example of why it is worth quoting someone rather than merely replying to their posts.It avoids the problems that lead to the sardonic joke common amongst Soviet citizens when I was young (and probably since then too): students of Soviet history know how difficult it is to foretell Soviet history.I wonder whether ebay seller sqwarrel will continue to sell the deviceshttps://www.ebay.com/usr/sqwarrel

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 11:04:18 am
content: wellI do salute some projects like this,butthere was a few wording / sentence / specs etc ... who did not make sense at allYou have to be very careful on what you write or assume or display with great enthusiasm ....that's all for me if you stay in the non professional segment ...butif you assume better than that ... you have to be prepared and show / prove what you meant by x or that x ...

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 12:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 01, 2024, 08:53:39 amThe listings he linked in this thread have been ended on Tue, April 23, but not those in the link you just provided. Well, I don't really care. A pity, but this guy obviously needs professional help. Not speaking about EE.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 12:39:52 pm
content: I wonder what logic was behind making these on a protoboard. Ordering custom PCBs is cheaper and 10x faster to assemble. Not to say look way more professional. Who in hell does this unless needs a few pieces at most and on the same day. That's beside other nonsenses with these.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 01:08:28 pm
content: It's not because of "tggzzz"...

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 01:23:02 pm
content: High precision voltage reference, but you need to calibrate it first using the potentiometers on the prototype board.For 56 bucks delivered on my doorstep, I can make it myself and maybe even make something better.You can't blame the guy for trying though. Unfortunately for him he came here to meet his doom.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 02:04:52 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 01, 2024, 01:23:02 pmExactly! His entrepreneurial spirit is applauded, his attitude is shunned.If he had come here asking humbly “guys, I am a beginner who would like to build and sell these devices on Ebay, what do you think? How can I improve these while keeping a low cost?” He would likely have received plenty of useful advice. But his stubbornness to defend the indefensible, that is why he aggravated everyone.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 02:10:38 pm
content: Frankly there is nothing wrong with potentiometersIFthey are high quality and adjust within a tiny range

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 02:19:08 pm
content: Similar low cost devices are already being sold on the web. They appear to be better engineered and built.They have been around for over 6 years, thus the guy must be doing something right.https://voltagestandard.com/

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 02:38:00 pm
content: The entire title of this thread seems inappropriate too.. FWIW just a personal opinion, but maybe it's worth for the user-id to be removed from the title, since it calls attention to messengers rather than the message, which was vindictive (by the banned poster) anyway.. and isn't anything to do with engineering either. Also the crude language in the title isn't pleasant to see for anyone.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 02:51:08 pm
content: I mean, it isn't wrong.I might not edit it myself, but it does seem past time to close this thread.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 03:06:32 pm
content: It's a Buy/Sell/Wanted forum- not the place to shit on the item!After some thought, I think OP handled it well including naming the turd slinger.It takes just one person to ruin a thread, a venture etc. It's a tough crowd here.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 04:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 01, 2024, 03:06:32 pmNot going to get into any arguments, but I don't think the "turd slinger" is to blame, really.IIRC other people selling items as a business have been banned recently, just for that, even if he didn't behave like this hemorrhoid guy at all. It seems, this forum is for the people to sell old stuff they don't want anymore, not for businesses to have an outlet.Maybe I agree with that, maybe not, but it doesn't matter in this case. It really looked like this guy was using not just the Buy/Sell/Wanted section, but also others, to make his "products" known... going from a thread to the next, looking for a place where he could do his thing "à plaisir". I think he deserved to be banned just for that... but if there where any doubts, his utterly rude, arrogant, spoiled child behavior marks him as an insane guy.He deleted the listings he himself linked a week ago... then after some days he edits thread subject, deletes his posts, and states that he will open a new thread where -it seems- he couldn't be criticized? To me it means he has been in rage these days... again, spoiled child-like. Not an adult behavior. This guy is nuts. Time to increase the medication.Quote from: schmitt trigger on May 01, 2024, 02:04:52 pm+1. That would have been the sensible approach IMO

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 04:57:27 pm
content: It's not "turd-slinging" to make legitimate points about obviously unrealisable claims.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 04:59:49 pm
content: Quote from: tatel on May 01, 2024, 12:18:12 pmWe were all beginners once, and made many mistakes. Being sufficiently self-aware and humble to accept hints and tips from more experienced people is the essential pre-requisite to avoiding making old stupid mistakes.I gave his fleabay moniker since the items are still visible there.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 05:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on May 01, 2024, 02:04:52 pmPrecisely.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 07:19:35 pm
content: The crime is the unrealistic claims? We have an entire nation built on that, we love and support. 5-star reviews galore lol. "Nijikang Ruby electrolytic capacitor" oh sure 0.1% 25ppm. It must be the ocean that protects them from flying objects, compared to here.I went to a local craft show and booths were selling all kinds of things - jams, hot sauce, pillows, candles etc.Did I go yell at the booth telling them their candle/pillow won't cure insomnia or stress, whatever the "unrealistic" claim was?You walk by, you do not buy.I guess I have more respect for makers putting themselves out there. I think OP has a strong character, not unlike many here and I missed the "poke the bear" activity.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 07:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 01, 2024, 02:10:38 pmTrue, but when I see something build on a prototype board precision does not spring to mind. And when claimed to be a precise 10.0000V reference, I expect something more professional of which one can assume it to be calibrated against a formal standard. Sure you won't get something like that for 40 bucks or so, but then you also should not make such claims. It smells like false advertising.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 08:26:58 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 01, 2024, 07:19:35 pmAbsolutely not. The crime is a) to use the forum to promote his sales, and b) to complain aggressively it all was a conspiracy against him and "counterattack", blind like a bull, perfectly confident nothing can oppose him. Really in a very rude, disgusting way. Of course it had to be a conspiracy against him, because all the world knows his boards are the best thing after hot bread, and we all are just jealous.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 09:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 01, 2024, 07:19:35 pmNot sure what relevance that has as those products are not being sold on this forum.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 09:21:01 pm
content: I think posting a link to an ebay listing for a good inexpensive reference would be very welcome and beneficial for the community and nobody would oppose that, even if it had sales promotion as a result (and/or intent, who cares!), provided that the specs were decent, true to the claims, and the manufacturer was ready to listen and cooperate. There are good examples of such cases: recent ones that come to mind are the ST42 LCR tweezers and that interesting ET sampling scope, forgot the name, that Joe Smith was (is?) an early tester of.The real issue was the attitude. Good advices were ignored, good questions were dismissed, valid criticism was confronted with aggression. That sucks. You don't behave like that on a respectable forum, especially one where nobody owes you anything.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 09:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on May 01, 2024, 09:21:01 pmAgreed

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 04:07:12 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 01, 2024, 09:57:08 pmI also agree and the OP should have kept in mind that he's pissing off the very same people that would have been interested in his device.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 04:30:19 am
content: Agree with TGGZZZ, MajorA is a waste of timej

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 09:16:48 am
content: QuoteI really don't think so. The sort of people on here know how to make these simple things if they need one, but if they're that way inclined they will buy a cheaper and better looking one from AliBayzon. I mean, he showed that it's just some cheap parts on a perf board - anyone could do it.What the people on herewouldbe interested in is showing how superior they are by finding the tiniest fault, and loudly noting that you couldn't set a 20-digit meter from one so it must be shit. It's that community attitude that led tohisattitude.He seemed impervious to taking advice, but that's not an indictable offence. Often, one will get contradictory advice so if you follow one you'll be pissing off the supplier of the other, but why should he take any at all? In the end he has considered it all and decided that the way he will go is the way to go, and that should perfectly OK. It would be OK, except to those that think their advice is gold plated and simplymustbe followed.Inthatthread it might be kind of OK to try and make him look a fool by asking about stuff that only applies to high-end super-expensive traceability (although using that as as a weapon surely sucks), but here in buy & sell it's just designed to stiff his sale. If you're actually interested in buying his kit then that sort of question is sensible, but the only ones asking here were those with a grudge intent on screwing any potential sale. I don't think that's on - if someone is happy to buy shit, it should be between them and the vendor.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 09:25:53 am
content: Maybe he can put the assembly in snake oil, to stabilize the temperature and get rid of humidity influences.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 09:29:14 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on May 02, 2024, 09:16:48 amThere are some valid points there. However, ...You appear to be overlooking that the OP wascontinuingto make claims for his products that were misleading and which he couldn't justify. When asked to explain and justify his claims, his chose not to - in ways that have been described byotherpeople in previous messages.Beginners are unlikely to be able to spot the deficiencies in such claims, and hence are likely to be mislead.I dislike people being mislead, even though it has become more accepted in recent years.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 09:40:54 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 02, 2024, 09:25:53 amThat would require a low-noise chakra signal generator to calibrate it, and that project is still unfinished :(

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 10:18:57 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on May 02, 2024, 09:16:48 amWell, in fact this thread had been inactive for some days... so nobody compelled him to take any advice, and everyone put up with his bad manners ...and he was free to continue selling his things on eBay.It should be realized that it washimwho suddenly "closed" the thread, deleting his posts and stating he would open another thread -where it would have been free from any critics?Hell, no. These eBay listings were misleading and we all have a right to criticize that. If he wanted propaganda without criticism, it would have been better for him to pay for some ads somewhere.I think, should that listing read something like:"LT1236-10 5ppm 10V Reference.""Final Trim to 10.0000 VDC @ 78F, 50% Humidity""Designed to affordably verify the function of Digital Multimeters up to 4.5 digits".... there would have been much less criticsBut at the end of the day, by making it clear that he does not accept criticism or else (temper tantrum),hewas the one who made the ban inevitable

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 10:25:40 am
content: I have mixed feelings about these types of episodes as nobody really benefits.As I see it, the OP had these references listed on ebay so if they didn't live up to expectations or meet specifications then purchasers had an avenue for reimbursement and negative feedback.Regardless of other peoples views or opinions on the products, the OP was in fact a contributor to the forum which entitles them to post items in this B/S/W section, and if the items weren't fit for purpose then they wouldn't last here very long, that's for damn sure.I don't know the reason for the ban and perhaps a timeout may have been sufficient but unfortunately the OP nominated to instigate what could be deemed a personal attack against another member by the (offensive?) thread title and that according to the rules won't be tolerated.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 10:58:44 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on May 02, 2024, 10:25:40 amAnyone who knows what their doing won't buy this to begin with. Those who don't, don't know better and don't have a clue or capability to verify performance.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 11:07:33 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on May 02, 2024, 10:25:40 amThere's a sticker on this section about ruleshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/buy-sell-wanted-rules/msg162055/#msg162055Where it says (emphasis is mine):QuoteSo, clearly, only occasional sale of personal stuff is allowed in this section. Maybe one could disagree with that rule, but to use this section, I think one has to agree with that or go elsewhere.Moreover, I don't see anything allowing far over aggressive conduct against critics, etc, that as you say, have their own rules against on the entire forum.I'm fine with that guy being banned. Everybody is free to disagree, but I have already said all I have to say.Edit: to add quote to reference my reply

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 11:25:59 am
content: Quote from: tatel on May 02, 2024, 10:18:57 amThis thread wasn't his first thread on the subject, as Zucca noted abovehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-affordable-dmm-checkers-ac-reference-dc-reference-ohms-reference-etc/msg5465230/#msg5465230The OP received plenty of similar comments from many people, so some might describe this thread as a "repeat offence"QuoteThe current sqwarrel items omit some of the more unjustifiable claims omitted, e.g ultralow drift 5ppm. Good.The text in one picture does mention "6000 count" meters, which is an improvement on "meters". That, as I noted inhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-affordable-dmm-checkers-ac-reference-dc-reference-ohms-reference-etc/msg5465140/#msg5465140means some criticisms don't arise. Good.Apart from that, I agree with Muttley Snickers that nobody benefits from this kind of thread. Questions and refutations unnecessarily waste time.I also agree with wraper that, whilewecan see through the claims, the people that buy the devices (as originally advertised) probably can't.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 11:53:21 am
content: My expectations were set by the user name. I was not disappointed.It seems to me that the OP had a nice little suite of items that might provide sanity checks on a lot of the common gear you would encounter. If they had stayed in the eBay arena, I expect they could have likely operated with some success as those who would be inclined to accept the claims made were likely not in a position to understand the actual detail of those claims and would have no way of verifying them anyway.Even I, who am by no means a metrologist's bootlace, saw the claims and price point and just shook my head and said "Nope".Posting here to promote the products for sale indicated two things, to me. The first is that they did not really understand the claims being made. The second is that they did not realise that there are many members here that do. The consequential challenge was inevitable and, IMHO, appropriate for the EEVBlog.If they were expecting endorsement, then they really did not understand what they were talking about - in the true and full sense of the terms they used - and the EEVBlog is definitely NOT the place to try. This, together with their extremely immature response had me thinking along the lines of Dunning–Kruger.This whole matter has ended up exactly where I expected it to after just having read the first post.Edit: Title changed to original

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 01:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 02, 2024, 10:58:44 amHow many of the members here do actually have the proper equipment to verify the performance of such a thing?Even the meters tggzzz mentions in a post I can't seem to find anymore, might not be calibrated properly to do a real verification. A friend of mine who has an impressive set of measurement equipment is often on about them needing calibration, but it being expensive now he no longer has access to what was available at his workplace. That is the down side of retirement.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 02:12:14 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 02, 2024, 01:33:42 pmThey are all out of calibration, by varying numbers of years/decades. I am careful to note that when showing measurements made with them.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 06:21:45 pm
content: Banned here but still active on Ebay IE: sqwarrel

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 07:12:03 pm
content: He isn't the first banned ebay voltage reference seller, at least his are reasonably cheap and probably reasonably soldered - unlike the other one!Edit: (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/calibratory-d-105-dc-precision-voltage-reference-standard/),still active.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 11:54:50 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on May 01, 2024, 02:04:52 pmHe sort of did that back in January:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/a-few-cheap-ballpark-testers-i-sellQuote from: Brumby on May 02, 2024, 11:53:21 amYea, that was definitely a red flag.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:26:48 pm
content: Sad to see a nearly 10 year member drive a new member to such an emotional outburst leading to a ban.It seems your approach needs an adjustment. You provided your input at which point the OP made it clear they didn't want you to engage further, yet you essentially relentlessly continued. You seem more like a bully than a contributor.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:39:30 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on May 04, 2024, 11:26:48 pmI don't know which 10 year member you are attempting to blame this one but you can't blame this on just one person (other than perhaps the OP). A lot of people (pretty much every reply) were skeptical of the OP's claims and asked questions and pointed out the OP's misleading statements.If the OP didn't want to engage further, then all he had to do was to ignore the thread.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on May 04, 2024, 11:39:30 pmSure, others chimed in but it 100% was tggzzz that got him going, as made blatantly obvious by the thread title.The OP made this thread to sell their homemade product. They already made multiple other threads and abandoned them only to have the same member follow to the new thread.There is no reason to keep arguing with the OP. You've made your point and anyone interested in the product can read the skeptical posts and make their own informed decisions. The OP has their reasons for not considering various member inputs, of which I agree with most of them.Going further is poor taste and just makes the forums seem toxic.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 12:03:03 am
content: QuoteYou seem to understand the reasoning behind the "relentlesness" , since you used the phrase "nearly 10 year",instead of 10.00000 or worse, nearly 10.00000Regarding "toxicity" ....oxygen and water Good for human, bad for iron.Sometimes what matters is not the environment, but the substance.I'm almost 99.999% done composing my reply<<<<that's a wink

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 12:04:53 am
content: I think its OK because it still probobly good enough for most shit people run and its good enough to get rid of crap measurements. just don't use it for publishing data in a journal or ISO certified place

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 12:47:02 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on May 04, 2024, 11:39:30 pmThere is a difference between tactful critiqueing and, well, what we had here.Let alone simply inquiring for further information -- perhaps they have those data and just neglected to provide it. Admittedly a remote possibility, but one that must be tried before dogpiling on.And once one rudeness has been perceived, the sharks circle, things only get worse, and the battle for civility has been lost. The very first replies have amoral dutyto be polite, for they set the tone for the rest of the thread.I suspect there's a lot of undiagnosed and unrealized ASD, I mean in electronics in general for one, but more particularly among members here. It is necessary to present facts (or point out the lack thereof), yes -- but it isnot sufficientto do only that, especially when doing so with a tone of voice that reads somewhere between frank and condescending.I don't say this just to chide, or lecture. I say this from personal experience, and I'm sure a lot of people here are even more keenly aware of it than I am... It's something I've practiced all my life, to varying degrees of success, as I notice even from posts just a few years old, on the occasion I happen across them. It's a skill that can be forever improved, and is particularly difficult to master as few if any people are interested or willing to critique ones' interactions (aren't you supposed to figure that out in grade school? what could be more basic? ah, but what indeed).Tim

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 01:38:06 am
content: "Autism is not an excuse to bully people." Louis Rossman

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 01:57:22 am
content: I have nothing against the OP or his products, but he absolutely overreacted and that started the downward spiral more than anything else.That's on top of the fact that, as pointed out, this thread and him spamming other threads with sales links to his products was all against the rules.I'm looking at ref projects, searching different threads, and OP posted links to his toys. 🤷

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 03:07:20 am
content: I agree with the decision to ban the OP due to his outburst and possibly the (too) many posts pushing his products. (Is it just temporary to give him time to cool off?)But also with less than 100 total posts I don't see how dodging him is ruining your daily quality time with the EEVblog!Even I admit that if I were to sell a similar product I would not be 100% sure in which forum to post about it. Would he need to buy ad space from Dave? Or perhaps "Sponsor" a board?Well, regardless, I think this "postmortem" is nearly complete...

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 05:57:32 am
content: For me all this is an example for the difficulties in human communication. We always think we understand the other person, but we don't. Everybody has his own sense of humor.We have some super contributors here who have never been decent starting from their first posts and it only got worse with their mounting number of posts. Quantity doesn't mean quality. Maybe there should be a rule that contributors with more than 10 000 posts or more than 5 posts per day should not disturb forum beginners without first looking into his/her profile and understanding a little what is going on.By the way, the OP posted about his offers in the Buy/Sell/Wanted section. In general people not interested in the offers don't comment, at least there won't be an engineering discussion.Regards, Dieter

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 06:23:39 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2024, 05:57:32 amCertainly true, and that also means that it is not always understood that something is intended to be humor.Quote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2024, 05:57:32 amI agree with the "Quantity doesn't mean quality", since I stated that before during the "TEA war",but for what I have seen I can't think of a super contributor that reacts indecent all the timeQuote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2024, 05:57:32 amThere is kind of a rule, where Dave states to be nice to beginners, but that requires a definition of beginner. A newbie on the forum is not necessarily a beginner, and the OP seems to not fall in the category when making "precision calibrating equipment".Quote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2024, 05:57:32 amWhy not. It can be seen as feedback after purchase, and inform other potential buyers about the quality of the product.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 08:25:32 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 05, 2024, 06:23:39 amAs far as i understand there had been a previous discussion in the metrology section, but the "experts" did not care. Probably none of them purchased any of the offers.Regards, Dieter

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 08:31:07 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2024, 08:25:32 amAfter giving them guidance on how to come up with more meaningful specs and them not showing any interest, I stopped caring indeed. I don't think we're losing out on any meaningful technical discussion by them being banned.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 09:10:16 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 05, 2024, 01:57:22 amI think we observed a perfect example of what's called synergistic effect.Or a well-matched resonant circuit, if you wish.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 09:59:13 am
content: Quote from: J-R on May 05, 2024, 01:38:06 amNeither is it an excuse for the OP to write things like...QuoteDue to a wholesale "rewriting of history", the only place that can still be found ishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/affordable-useful-ac-dc-references/msg5451386/#msg5451386The OP did have the grace to admit his mistake; good.A reasonable question is why, if the OP believes he has acted correctly, has he deleted many of his posts. Presumably he is embarrassed by them and no longer wishes to be associated with what he wrote.Why was the OP banned, rather than other people being banned? For clarity, I don't know why he was banned - although I can make guesses as easily as anybody else. Note that members having large numbers of posts have been banned in the past, so that can't be part of the decision.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 10:19:45 am
content: I found his insighthereamusing though. Called for not so much.QuoteWhat he missed is:Keeping him self warm with the space heaters the old vacuum tube based analog scopes are.But this shows he was capable of providing somewhat civil feedback without using swear words. Flattering not so much of course, but we have seen far worse insults being made, and on the internet you have to deal with it unfortunately.As to the quoteQuoteIt looks like a lot of American people seem to forget where their roots lie.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 10:59:30 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 05, 2024, 10:19:45 amI'd forgotten that; life's too short to keep grudges. Much easier (and better) to concentrate only on what people say.Not a bad insult, I'll agree. Not relevant, nor accurate, but that's a different point!QuoteHow dare you!I have a maximum of one tube per scope, and some of thosearewere DSOs. In general I refuse to have anything I can't easily lift with one arm. (Exception: affordable portable 21GHz spectrum analysers aren'teasyto lift)The only tubes I have are inside a couple of amusing instruments, are ceramic, and smaller than my thumbtip. I will admit to owning some dekatrons and neons and panaplex displays. No heaters in those, though!As to the quoteQuoteSo do people this side of the pond"People are people, the whole world over".

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 11:22:17 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 05, 2024, 10:59:30 amSorry, did not mean to upset youQuote from: tggzzz on May 05, 2024, 10:59:30 amYep and each and everyone of them differs. Makes it interesting on the one hand, and cumbersome on the other.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 11:32:28 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 05, 2024, 11:22:17 amI hate the mantra, especially common amongst HR droids, that you must treat everyone equally.I occasionally point out to people that they are not and never will be my equal. The switched on quickly respond with "no, I'm better", to which I grin and say "yup, in some ways, and that's just fine". For the more timid, I go on to add "andyoucan andshouldsay exactly the same".Treat people as individuals, and give that person what they need/deserve.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 09:54:30 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 05, 2024, 10:19:45 amI find it somewhat unfortunate that we are resigned to that. While it may be true "on the internet" at large, there is certainly the ability to curate a community on a smaller scale, if you choose to do so.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 01:13:34 am
content: Although this forum has an overall laissez-faire attitude, it is far more restrained than other forums which I lurk at.My personal belief is that real life already has its fair share of stress and complexity, to add a gratuitous quarrel with random strangers.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 05:35:26 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on May 05, 2024, 09:54:30 pmAnd that is most likely why the OP got banned. The moderator chose to keep the community from being abused. Most members here are not out for quarrels, but sometimes you run into them due to others that come here to provoke, troll, or be just plain ignorant.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 08:16:12 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on May 06, 2024, 01:13:34 amIt is, to a large extent "self policing". The mods have stated that they largely rely on members to bring things to their attention.It is also, as you mention, somewhat laissez-faire - but with a few hard boundaries.Getting that balance right is tricky, and the mods+members have largely succeeded.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 05:10:08 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on May 05, 2024, 01:38:06 amExcept autistic people are normally bullied, rather than bullies. I know that's a generalisation and there will be exceptions.I don't consider tggzzz to be rude, perhaps a little blunt in pointing out his claims are unrealistic, but not overtly rude. The original poster then lost his temper.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 05:27:38 pm
content: .... and he has left us with a classic subject title . perhaps not for tgg

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 06:27:19 pm
content: Quote from: armandine2 on May 06, 2024, 05:27:38 pmShould be easily fixable right before the thread gets locked !!!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 06:30:53 pm
content: Only by the OP... or mod (It ain't going to be the OP).

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 06:32:10 pm
content: tggzzz doesn't appear to care, so does it really matter?I found it to be a rather humorous read. It was a shame I missed the fireworks.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 07:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 06, 2024, 06:32:10 pmConsidering the OP decided to nuke his initial craziness, the actual remaining content here makes no sense at this point. There is essentially no value in this thread existing anymore. The only reasonable response if someone stumbles upon this is "WFT happened here??"

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 07:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on May 06, 2024, 07:22:21 pmSome of it still exists on the interwebs:https://web.archive.org/web/20240423142004/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-affordable-dmm-checkers-ac-reference-dc-reference-ohms-reference-etc/

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 08:15:51 pm
content: That archived thread doesn't capture the other threads, where he was hounded by the usual suspects. What showed up here was just the culmination of that, the straw that broke things.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 08:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on May 06, 2024, 06:32:10 pmWhether or not I mind is of secondary importance. I do think the new title cheapens this forum. The original title avoids that, and to that limited extent I think it might be appropriate to revert it.Deleting their posts is typical of such people. Missing the fireworks isn't particularly important, of course, but revising history is objectionable.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 09:25:21 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on May 06, 2024, 08:15:51 pmTrue. But for that, anyone can go tothe profile of Majorassburn,click "show posts", and make up their own mind.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 07:23:20 am
content: Quote from: Kim Christensen on May 06, 2024, 07:50:29 pmReading Majorassburn's reply there, I can't understand how he does not see the error in his own reasoning.QuoteWhen you are targeting the more low end handheld digital multi meters, why would you over inflate your specifications.These type of meters don't have that high precision, and most hobbyists will likely not care about it either. I don't, because for the things I do it is more about having something working and not about true precision. And for that I manage just fine with the not calibrated equipment I have.QuoteSo to not complicate the add he just mentions a few unreal specifications to make sure the buyers don't skip his and and buy from him, where as if he was truthful he might be selling more. But maybe my vision on buyers of this kind of stuff is wrong. Maybe he is praying on the gullible, as so many seem to do.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 09:01:31 am
content: ...I suspect praying for more gullible people is not so unusual.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 11:46:02 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on May 07, 2024, 07:23:20 am"there are none so blind as those who will not see"

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 05:59:03 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on May 07, 2024, 11:46:02 amAgreed.Looking at the sqwarrel ebay items currently on sale, he does appear to have modified his claims to omit some of the more unrealistic claims/specifications noted earlier in this thread.That's good, and indicates he has seen the light. If he had done that earlier then this thread wouldn't have happened (see my reply #9, if you haven't got anything better to do with your life!.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 06:40:11 pm
content: That 3.5 digit meter remark was pretty nasty after he had explained that he was using 6.5 meters with fresh calibration. So 5.5 digits would have been a realistic estimate. Those "expert" comments and the ban might as well indicate that he was on something valid.I think there is a good reason for somebody looking for alternatives instead of paying collectors prices for legacy equipment with unknown history. The comments about a non existing market were manipulative at best. There are lots of offers in that realm. Don't know whether the chinese already have their own josephson junction arrays.Regards, Dieter

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 08:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 07, 2024, 06:40:11 pmThat is a misrepresentation.The actual remark includes an important caveat,highlightedfor convenience: 'If you limited the claimed to,for example,"...verify the function of 3.5 digit Digital Multimeters", then the points wouldn't even arise.'https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-affordable-dmm-checkers-ac-reference-dc-reference-ohms-reference-etc/msg5465140/#msg5465140That gave him the perfect opportunity to point out that his device was better than 3.5digit. He chose not to. Why?QuoteI cannot see any 6.5 digit statement of the OP's. Where is it? When was it made?Note also thatafter the salethe OP sends documentation that the claims are based on operating in an unrealistic single exact environment "...no-draft ambient of 78F and 60% humidity."https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-affordable-dmm-checkers-ac-reference-dc-reference-ohms-reference-etc/msg5465119/#msg5465119Ensuring operation in such a precise environment would be very expensive and difficult; it would be cheaper to buy a more expensive well-specified and characterised voltage source.QuoteI agree - as my statement above demonstrates.But that wasnotclaimed in the adverts, so I don't think you have a point.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2024, 10:35:23 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 07, 2024, 06:40:11 pmNo, they were saying they used a 5.5 digit meter that they compared to a 6.5 digit meter. And just because you measured a reference down to say 100 uV/V uncertainty doesn't mean you can claim it will be stable down to that level months later and at a 10°C higher ambient temperature without doing extra work. I explained how to establish proper specs, but they weren't interested. They kept giving unrealistic specifications. But now I as "expert" am the bad person? Why do you feel the need to point fingers like this?

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 04:29:49 am
content: Quote from: alm on May 07, 2024, 10:35:23 pmBeing a bit more positive i assume that he calibrated his references with the 6.5 meter. I mean everybody would use the best available meter. Can't you calm down and leave it to a potential buyer to define requirements and compare specs?As a side note: I got a little voltage reference board from AD without any other specs than the ADR1399 datasheet. They described it as "pocket reference, 7.05 V". It arrived with a USB supply involving a switching converter and no bootstrap stage. After some modding it can still be used for metrology experiments. Other buyers might prefer a less stable unit that has been characterized to a better degree.Just looking at one of our HP3456A: After turn on it displays 5.5 digits as this is its accuracy. But it can be used for studies at 7.5 digits. The mods are described somewhere in this forum. The accuracy spec of a HP3458A is 5.5 digits as well, unless it gets calibrated more than once a year. So let's not invent requirements. Once you have a calibrated reference, a 5.5 meter can transfer calibration to another reference measuring the voltage difference.Regards, Dieter

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 07:18:41 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 08, 2024, 04:29:49 amNo, you can't -and shouldn't.Most buyers don't have the expertise nor the interest in learning.Most buyers won't be able to spot what isn't being stated.It also assumes the vendor is competent to create what they are selling.That applies to any and every product and service.IMNSHO we should help the vendor make claims that should lead to satisfied customers, and we should warn customers of products and services that will waste their time/money - or worse. Unfortunately we can't fulfill that in most cases, but it is almost our duty to do that where we can.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 07:33:34 am
content: QuoteIf a buyer doesn't know and doesn't care, why should that be your problem? You pointed out to the chap (several times and in your usual patronising manner) why you thought his stuff was shit. Job more than done.Are you the EEVBlog seller police now? If you have an issue with an advert that you think would affect EEVBlog then report the post to a mod and they can choose an appropriate action if they deem it necessary.(Quick way for a buyer to learn what's needed: buy a cheap shit one. Maybe he was doing them a favour after all.)

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 07:40:54 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on May 08, 2024, 07:33:34 amI don't think he said it's shit, just that the specifications are unrealistic.I thought the point of the forum was to warn people off buying such products and in this case, it was only right to make the seller aware of the flaws in the description of his products.Quote from: tggzzz on May 07, 2024, 05:59:03 pmIt appears as though pride got in the way of learning, which seems to be a very common problem.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 10:02:14 am
content: Maybe a poll of how one sees this buying/selling part of the place.Some comments are quite far from how I see it.Pinned subjects include bad shopping and scammers, shouldn't those mean something.Very beginning is also mentioning occasional sale of personal stuff.My take is that a buyer here is the one that initiate things.Sellers are here for courtesy of them.It's not like a salesman knocking your door, he's already in.One other thing that seems to be fading out again, community moderation.It's not that community as a whole can't moderate but this is different.I just went through posts in B/S/W rules and it made the thing clear, it must be light.Light in many ways but first for actual moderation acts.(Sorry about that one Sunday morning)

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 10:51:39 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on May 08, 2024, 07:33:34 amAre there any forum members that would let anyone to break forum and section rules freely, etc? That would be fine with that guy scamming people? That would be fine with other forum members reacting to criticism in a so unhinged, aggressive way? Wow. Good to know.It looks as if the mods deemed necessary immediate ban without warning, don't think you so?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:01:48 am
content: AND MAYBE ALL knowing when call it quits5 pages already .... and still saying the same thing over and over and now, it's already drifting .........This is what is going wrong here .... enough is enough and did you @ll learned new things from previous pages ... NOTThe OP is still doing business on Ebay do some complaints of falses / bad / not verified / unrealistic specifications etc ...Do complaint at EBAY not here ....Here the OP was banned and left / removed his things, WE (including myself) should be pleased and stop making comments ... he is elsewhere, bring the fight thereCriticism is one thing BUT ...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:08:25 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 08, 2024, 11:01:48 amHow, exactly?Don't forget that fleabay staff won't be able to judge technical arguments, and that fleabay makes money for each sale - and behaves accordingly.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:23:14 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 08, 2024, 11:01:48 amI agree, this thread should be closed. Enough is enough.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:40:41 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 08, 2024, 07:18:41 amFromhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/decided-to-buy-brymen-869s-help-me-avoid-buyers-remose/msg5416460/#msg5416460...QuoteThis thread is getting f***ing tedious now!P.S. The DMM6500didarrive (from forum Search)....Quote

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:46:50 am
content: @tggzzz time to let it go ..............

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:55:06 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 08, 2024, 11:40:41 amThen use the "ignore topics" button!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 11:56:55 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 08, 2024, 11:46:50 amNot so easy if your moniker is in the topic title, and people continue to make incorrect/invalid statements.If not for that, I would have added it to my "ignored topics"longago!

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 12:03:53 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 08, 2024, 11:55:06 amwhere is that button?!

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 12:05:50 pm
content: If your moniker is in the thread ask the mods, do not rant here for longer than neededBecause it will fall on you that you don't let go, you're still frustrated etc .... you'll end up the "other" bad guyi had a feud myself on a wtb thread ... i let it goCalm down and act intelligently and act maturelyComplaint to the mods or even DAVE ...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 12:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on May 08, 2024, 12:03:53 pmI use it rarely, but it is available in unread topics and unread replies...

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 12:41:17 pm
content: Quote from: tatel on May 08, 2024, 10:51:39 amUnless you have an inside line to the mods thoughts, it's probably best not to assign motives you don't know about.There were several things I noted that might have led to a ban, but it might have been all of them or something else entirely. Hey, maybe someone hit the 'report' button like they were meant to

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 01:11:58 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on May 08, 2024, 12:41:17 pmNot worth the hassle to answer that. Have better things to do. Have a nice day.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 02:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 08, 2024, 11:56:55 amhttps://xkcd.com/386/

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 02:02:17 pm
content: Apart from everything else mentioned in this thread. I'd suggest seriously considering locking it, on the basis that the now banned OP, can't answer back, or comment/defend on anything raised in this thread, after they were banned.So, it would be unfair to the OP.Their rapid banning, makes complete sense. Because (from link(s) earlier in this thread), they were apparently very badly and rudely attacking (flaming etc), at least one other member here. Which is NOT acceptable.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 02:25:40 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 08, 2024, 12:05:50 pmSo there was some merit in the changed (new) Title of this thread, wasn't it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 04:44:06 pm
content: The ban was definitely the right thing to do.I do thing the name of this thread should be changed. I've tried pasting the original title into the Subject field.EDIT:That didn't work. I've reported the thread with a polite request to change the subject back to "Affordable DMM Checkers: AC Reference, DC Reference, OHMS Reference, etc." or remove the reference to "tggzzz".Hopefully that'll work.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 04:51:07 pm
content: Done. Thread also locked as there is no need for it to continue to be posted to.