I've found myself a new hobby. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:41:17 am
content: I've taken up lockpicking!Before anybody comes after me about the legality, I am in possession of these tools in the state of New York (In the US of course). Our local laws fully legalize the use of lockpicks on property that is owned by the picker, or on property the picker has been authorized to use. This may seem twitchy and excessive, but I have had people call me a criminal before for talking about it.I also wish to apologize for this not being precisely being electrical engineering, but I do think it's within the general ballpark, and that people would find interest in this.So this is my new hobby, and I've been learning fairly fast. I purchased a beginner kit from Sparrows Lockpicks called the Tuxedo. It's intended to be a kit you carry with you every day, and is so named because it's supposed to fit into the top pocket of a tux without anybody noticing it. People like Bosnianbill, who is my main resource for lockpicking, have given the kit good reviews (in fact he carries the kit every day)I picked open the first lock I had ever picked within 5ish minutes of trying. It was a cheap Kwikset, and it was basically (the technical term is bitch picked) open. Even though it was a cheap lock, and my method was even cheaper, I began experimenting more and more.One thing to note about the US is that around 70-80% of the locks used by individuals and companies are incredibly cheap, and can be opened with a small knife (seriously). You could check a hundred houses in an average US city and find cheap Kwikset after cheap Kwikset. Bike after bike is secured with Master brand locks, which are worth more as an entertainment piece than an actual lock.As I have been practicing, I went from zipping and rocking (basically shoving the pick in there and moving it around until it opens) from learning how to precisely place and lift the pick on the pins and single pin pick the lock proper. The other day I was working on a Schlage, which is a less shit lock than the Kwikset. It's harder to pick for me in two respects, the keyway is a lot sharper and harder to work in, and there are security pins designed to prevent lockpicking. Even though it was still a very random picking, I was able to overcome the spool pins inside the lock and open it.A few minutes ago, I just opened another Schlage lock, but by actually picking it pin by pin, detecting the false set in the spools, and setting them proper.Sorry about including so much jargon in here, but I am interested as to who here has tried lockpicking, and how successful they were at it. I am by 0 means an educated picker, and I have just started a few days ago, but I do think I am learning relatively fast.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:48:02 am
content: Just put your new-found skills to good (and lawful) use.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:51:11 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 29, 2017, 07:48:02 amNo worries here. I would never pick a lock to break the law.

author: igendel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:58:14 am
content: A couple of months ago I bought a cheap "lockpicking training set" from China, mainly because it had a transparent lock and I wanted to show my kids how locks work. It's a real lock (can't be opened with a knife), but it's so easy to pick it when you can see all the pins inside!

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 08:01:49 am
content: Quote from: igendel on June 29, 2017, 07:58:14 amBosnianbill had a video on a similar lock. I didn't end up buying it because he said it was so easy to pick even without looking at it.His suggestion for the best way to learn how to pick locks is to get something re-pinnable, and then to pin it up one pin at a time as you learn to pick it. I don't have the tools to pin locks (I really just need a pinning board) but if I did this is probably what I would have done with my Schlage locks.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 08:37:56 am
content: I too recently had a go at lock picking. I'd wanted to try it for years and finally got round to it recently.I got some pick tools and a transparent padlock from Banggood. The transparent padlock is cool to see the mechanism in action.I'm not very good at it yet. I can pick the transparent lock easily, along with my window and filing cabinet locks, but my Squire brand padlocks I'm having difficulty with.Just takes practise I suppose.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 10:53:39 am
content: Very good.There are some brilliant YouTube channels... Lock noob, bosnian bill, Lock Picking LawyerJust keep practising.... You should try padlocks both ways up... pins down with gravity pulling them out and pins up... and work back to front or front to back... after a while you should find a combination that works for you.Have fun and stay legal!(Richard Feynman is a bit of a hero to me.... he was a lock picker as well as star educator, Nobel Prize winner etc.)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 11:02:43 am
content: I seem to remember a story about Feynman needing access to some Top Secret documents during the Manhattan Project, but the person whose office filing cabinets they were locked in was gone for the week end, so he picked the locks. Or something along those lines. Probably was in one of his books. I need to read those again.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 11:05:27 am
content: Quote from: rdl on June 29, 2017, 11:02:43 amhttp://www.openculture.com/2013/04/learn_how_richard_feynman_cracked_the_safes_with_atomic_secrets_at_los_alamos.html

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 12:39:29 pm
content: Most hacker cons got talks about lock picking and you can find several of those on YouTube. I find this topic very interesting because I learned how locks work, and how easy it is to pick the basic types. Even "high security" locks can be picked open in 10 or 15 minutes.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 01:05:02 pm
content: Ever tried to pick or hack into electronically controlled locks?I have one prototype that performs a two-factor authentication (you can call it three-factor) with n RADIUS server (I have one in my home network separate from the lock. Don't ask.) To open the lock the RFID key card (I am just using the chip's serial number now, probably should have used a better card with an actual crypto processor in it with an asymmetric key pair,) the biological fingerprint and the passphrase must all match up and be authorized by the RADIUS server.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 02:12:43 pm
content: Sure, we have cheap Kwik-Set locks. No worries, though, they're backed up up by a couple of German Shepherd Dogs with very territorial attitudes.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 04:11:08 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on June 29, 2017, 02:12:43 pmYou obviously have never been to the US then.Most people will point a nice 1oz slug at your head in a gentle reminder that being a bad person is not nice.Quote from: NivagSwerdna on June 29, 2017, 10:53:39 amI actually don't have any padlocks, but I have been practicing on upside down door locks.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 04:30:11 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on June 29, 2017, 04:11:08 pmI have been in the US for a little more than 71 years, I kind of think of it as home...And locks solve the problem how? Everybody knows you can kick through a door with almost no effort. If the door frames are reinforced, they go for the windows. If that doesn't work, they wait for you to come out and jack you on the sidewalk.There is no escaping the probabilities of crime. I live in one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in the US but I don't lose any sleep thinking about it. My neighborhood is pretty nice and well away from the problem areas.In any event, safety is an illusion.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 04:57:44 pm
content: Almost all USA houses that are not a box are made of "wood"(pressed wood dust, cardboard and a dash of glue..), you can punch them and get in..And as always, locks are there to keep honest people out and give you a false sense of security.Lock picking as everything else, can be fun if done for fun and not to break into someplace that is not yours, seen a lot of those talks, always fun when the super hiper mega cant pick this is picked in 30 secs

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:03:38 pm
content: I like locks, mostly as a show of security, especially the fancier looking ones ( and the steel plate masterlocks) that are so easy to pick. Done many cabinet locks with just a pair of paper clips, though with some not even those were needed, as they use a common key.I have a nice antique Yale and Towne padlock I like a lot, I cut it off an old door ( cut the door, not the lock) and made a key to fit it as well, using a ford key blank as the source, and filing and cutting it to fit the lock warding and the gate.

author: WastelandTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:08:13 pm
content: two wordsstreetsweeper tines

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:13:00 pm
content: I was just watching a whole bunch of BosnianBill videos. It's truly astonishing how bad Masterlock padlocks are. I've watched them being opened with a cat food tin, a bamboo skewer and a hammer. If there's one lesson to take away, it is "Don't buy Masterlocks"

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:17:10 pm
content: From 1955 to 1962, Yale & Towne had a lock shop at Disneyland (CA). It was right next door to the Magic Shop (IIRC) and these two plus Tom Sawyer's Island were my favorite places to play.My favorite at the Yale & Towne shop was the cutaway safe style combination lock.I was always fascinated by old time locks.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:22:32 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on June 29, 2017, 08:01:49 amIt's very handy to learn how to disassemble and re-pin locks, for example if you have several locks and you want them all to use the same key.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:23:06 pm
content: Masterlock padlocks are generally bad. However US Medeco locks have a patented rotating pin mechanism that is very good and not found in Europe.In Europe the top notch lock maker is Abloy with the notoriously hard to open rotating discs.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:31:55 pm
content: I have been picking locks since my childhood and it is still fun for me to do.Certain lock picking tools are also illegal in the USA, be careful, it is easy to break the law, if you don't know the details.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:41:11 pm
content: A very clever way and much faster then the traditional lock picking is the "Bumping key" technique.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:30:16 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 29, 2017, 06:31:55 pmWhat tools?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 01:38:10 am
content: google recreational lockpicking, and lockpicking parties.Also electric lockpick guns - which do tend to take the fun out of the process. A locksmith friend visiting our place once showed me one of these. First one I'd seen. I tried it in our house door, and opened it in about three seconds. With cheap locks, security is totally an illusion.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 02:24:20 am
content: Quote from: senso on June 29, 2017, 04:57:44 pmCertainly for the way most people approach security, that is true. Residential grade Kwikset or Schlage hardware, wooden or hollow core doors with windows in or near them, large exposed unprotected windows, etc.But I think it is a misleading aphorism most often used by people who don't want to go through the trouble of investing in proper security. If you want real security that keeps dishonest people out as well, it is always available. You can set up physical security with commercial steel doors, steel frames, high security locks (Abloy, Medeco, Mul-T-Lock, etc.), ANSI grade 1 hardware, window bars and scissor gates, and so on, such that the time to compromise it with tools is more than the response time of the alarm company.Residential security is just bottom of the barrel, because usually people choose hardware and construction materials based on aesthetics and cost. Security often doesn't even make the list of concerns.Even for residential construction an installation of stucco on the outside of a house makes it remarkably hard to penetrate; it's basically concrete and metal mesh. Tough and a real pain to drill or saw through; the metal chews up masonry bits, and the aggregate chews up metal bits, a distant relative to the construction of a safe.For anyone that truly enjoys security and lockpicking, the set of books called"Locks, Safes, and Security" by Marc Weber Tobiasis very worthwhile. Coincidentally, he is the guy who was well known for compromising the Medeco series of high security locks.Security Snobsis also a fun source of hardware.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 07:47:53 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on June 29, 2017, 07:41:17 amOkay, maybe I can help you. I discovered lockpicking by chance after reading an online article, and I was amused about how easy it was for bruglars to pick an apartment lock.... After some research, I've found that lockpicking is something everyone can do, and I've decided to get started. Unfortunatley, in italy lockpicking is illegal. Even possessing lockpicking equipment is a crime! However, literature on it is not, so I decided to read some books and inform myself.First of all, and the most important thing is: never break the law, study regulations and stuff like that before getting started. Lockpicking equipment could be considered illegal in some countries (In italy it is!), so be warned.Second, Always lockpick your locks. Do it for yourself and not for friends (or profit).Lockpicking requires 4 things: understanding the lock mechanisms, lot of practise, steady hands and the right equipment. You started with very basic locks, it's fine, and if in 2 days you alredy unlocked a lock with security pins, you are still average. But, you can really take lockpicking to the next level only if you educate yourself. Get some books, but be warned they aren't cheap. Another skill you should master is beating records: anyone is capable of picking a lock in 1 hour.... However, what about picking a lock in seconds? I's a real challenge!Another thing you have to understand is that having the locks explosed view to understand how they works is essential... Let's say that lockpicking is somewhat like hacking with some locks: you have to make your own strategy to break the lock, but minimum literature/recon is neededAs for advanced stuff, well, with the proper tools and tecniques and practise you can easly break 2 map cylinders and stuff like that in less than 2 minutes!Locks security is an illusion. It's only a matter of time and skill. If your lock encounters a proficient lockpicker, it's over...

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 10:10:22 am
content: I'd definitely agree that locks are pretty much only for show and to deter casuals these days now that these are so cheap and powerful!

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 11:24:13 am
content: I've never bothered with lockpicking - even when it's been at various security or development conferences. That transparent lock looked fun though. Just ordered one on eBay. Something fun to do when sitting in front of the TV.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 02:07:26 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on June 30, 2017, 07:47:53 amI wouldn't call any lock unpickable, but some locks (e.g. Abloy Protec2) are certainly close enough. You might find one or two hobbyists that can do it, but not enough to present a practical issue with security. Most commercial locksmiths, who do this every day, can't even pick high security locks of any sort (e.g. Medeco), and people who spend time obsessively learning how to pick high security locks generally aren't out on the street doing so after spending 20 minutes hunched in front of your door.In any case the premise of physical security is never that it is unbeatable, it is just a question of how long it stands up to an attacker. You choose your level of security such that it withstands an attacker for longer than your response time.Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on June 30, 2017, 10:10:22 amDefeating angle grinders is just a question of metallurgy. There are specific products to do so, e.g. see theGeminy Shield, which stood up to an angle grinder more than 45 minutes in the field.Quote from: Han Fey's Geminy Shield paperQuote from: Han Fey's Geminy Shield paperAnyways, you will always find videos on Youtube of someone in the world opening any given product, but that doesn't mean that from a practical standpoint the security is worthless. Physical security is always meant to be coupled with monitoring and response and there are many products out there that are more than good enough when that is done.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 04:12:20 pm
content: I have picked locks since I was a kid, starting with paperclips and then advancing to the broken off tines from a streetsweeper brush. How thoughtful of city governments to provide the tools of the trade for both hobby people and criminals.One thing I found is that the low quality of cheap locks makes most of them easy to pick, but the inevitable variability turns up a gem now and then. There was one four pin desk lock that I never was able to pick, even though all off its brothers and sisters in similar desks fell easily. Unfortunately the owner of that desk wanted in very badly and we ended up using brute force.Good locks turn up in strange places. In university in the freshman chemistry lab each student was assigned a drawer to keep their glassware and notes. The drawer had a fifteen pin lock (five pins on either side of the key and five more on the "cheek" of one side). Some subset of the pins provided a master key function. Why a graduated flask, a couple of beakers and few test tubes required that level of protection was a question I never got answered.The generally low quality locks and construction of US homes don't provide absolute security, but they often serve the purpose, which is to send criminals on to even easier targets and to keep drunks from accidentally barging into the wrong house. If someone really wants into your specific house they will get in. Regardless of how much steel, concrete and ultra high end locking material you use. Fortunately the vast majority of us have nothing of sufficient value to make it worth the effort that would take.

author: WastelandTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 05:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: Elf on June 30, 2017, 02:24:20 amawesome post, I love it when people just bring the goods, wasted hours on security snobs

author: EmmanuelFaure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 12:05:16 am
content: https://9gag.com/gag/a9AMY6W

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 12:29:55 am
content: I'm into lock picking too. It can be a fun challenge! It's come in handy quite a few times, too.