Fume extractors mandatory or not? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 03:54:36 pm
content: Hello everyone. On this topic we can discuss about fume extractor. Do you use one, why yes and why no.First, i have one question about it. I plan to do my work in my bedroom on the desk next to window. My plan was to solder and work two-three days a week and two-three hours during that days. As i heard solder and flux make bad fumes which can be toxic for people and even produce cancer (?). Thats why i wanted to get good floor extractor with big tube like the one from aliexpress on link below.I planned to work with window open and ventilate after. Do i need fume extractor, and is this a good andsafeplan for working?https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001563191075.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.19.23d5796cVL4g6N&algo_pvid=924ff8e6-de0b-4d67-9abe-c2a1ad528121&aem_p4p_detail=202306260850358647494754675360000905835&algo_exp_id=924ff8e6-de0b-4d67-9abe-c2a1ad528121-9&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21EUR%21318.44%21270.68%21%21%21%21%21%402102176616877946354688288d077a%2112000016604508831%21sea%21HR%213368508095&curPageLogUid=MaX2Q2wZN250&search_p4p_id=202306260850358647494754675360000905835_2

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 06:14:20 pm
content: Yes the fumes are not good for the health, however unless doing a low or with nasty flux it is also not that dramatic. The main point are decomposition products of the flux when it gets hot - a bit like burning food or a tabacco. Besides the health problem there is also the smell the one may not want in the bedroom.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 06:17:34 pm
content: The chemical exposure risk from soldering comes in two forms: first is skin contact with solder alloys. Safety instructions always say to wash your hands after handling solder and before eating or smoking to avoid ingestion of lead or other metals. Wearing nitrile "examination" gloves is one way to avoid skin contact, and nitrile rubber is also static dissipative which can help to protect electronics from static discharge. They can become unpleasantly sweaty inside if the workspace is not air conditioned. This is uncontroversial.The second risk is more nebulous and you will hear a lot of different opinions. The major concern is that the smoke or fumes released when flux is heated may be damaging if inhaled. Note that 99% of solder alloys do not release metal vapors in any meaningful quantity, this is only about flux. Fluxes used for electronics are usually based on rosin or colophony, a pine resin that is not in itself toxic, but has been linked to hypersensitization in professional environments. That is, after being exposed to, and inhaling some amount of, colophony smoke for 40 hours a week over some number of months or years, workers sometimes develop an acute allergy to rosin. Once that happens they are forced to stop working with products that contain pine rosin, which means professional disability. Since the companies responsible for the disability face substantial liabilities, they prefer to prevent this syndrome (also known as "colophony disease") by using fume extraction equipment.The fumes may be damaging in other ways, by increasing the amount of micrometer-sized particulates in the air. The same way you would prefer not to work next to an idling vehicle all day, you may prefer to filter or exhaust the fumes before they build up in the room. With that said, the volume and level of pollutants from flux smoke are small and cannot easily be linked to any health problems.Recently on this forum I have seen several questions about $1000+ fume extractors from hobbyists. This seems to me to be overkill. If you can open some windows, get some fresh air exchange, and hold your breath so to avoid inhaling flux smoke, there is no reason to expect problems. If this is inconvenient, a low priced fume extractor like a Hakko FA-400 (or its equivalents from Edsyn, Weller, etc) that just pulls air through a carbon filter is enough protection for most hobbyist level soldering. The sensitizing particulates will first of all be sucked sideways instead of rising directly into your face, and a great deal of them will be adsorbed by the filter. This kind of air filtration is totally inadequate for toxic vapors but flux smoke is far below that level.Previous threads about filtration:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/question-about-fume-extraction/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/mounting-a-bench-top-fume-extractor-under-the-bench/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/diy-fume-extraction/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/flux-pen-for-beginner/There are also some discussions you can search about heat recovery ventilators (HRVs) which some have DIYed for their workshops. This is a kind of outside air ventilation that reduces energy losses.

author: liaifat85
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 07:16:59 pm
content: Yes. Continuous exposure to solder fumes is bad for health. If you spend a significant time everyday in soldering, it is wise to use a fume extractor.

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 02:12:57 pm
content: Thank you very much for helping. I think i am going to get one because no hobby is worth your health. Which flux would you reccomend that is least toxic and that is also good to work with?

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 02:22:59 pm
content: If you have a window handy you can just pump the smoke outside with a cheap inline fan, keep the intake hose near enough to the work/parked iron that it gets it all, no expensive filtration required. Put some mesh over the tube so it doesn't suck up small parts. The commerical ones are the same basic setup, just with a box of filters on the end rather the outside world, more handy in a commerical/production context where the amount of air removed from the building would start getting impractical with many exhaust fans running constantly.As you may know, what tends to happen, even if you try to keep your head back, is the smoke likes to go straight for your face, some sort of electrostatic thing I think. Like just for comfort, nevermind health, you at least need a desk fan to pull the smoke off to the side.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 04:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on June 27, 2023, 02:22:59 pmWhy does smoke from a soldering iron ALWAYS go towards your face???One of the problems with a sucking filter / fan is that on the suck side, air comes from all directions, which reduces it's efficacy very fast with distance. On the blowing side of a fan, you have a sort of constant air flow, when the air is moving, it tends to keep moving in that direction.So, the simplest thing that helps is to blow a bit of air over desk with a fan, and combine that with general room ventilation, and that is probably good enough for occasional soldering.

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 01:28:05 pm
content: Thank you all for advice. I think it is the best to get proper floor fume extractor. No hobby or work is worth risking your health. If i may ask for recomendation of good fume extractor that is not crazy expensive but hasproper filter systemwith good active carbon one, HEPA and cotton?I was looking at this one from Aoyue for 300 EUR. Is this good option with proper filtaration and suction power? I am open to any advice and recomendation.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 03:11:53 pm
content: I have worked in Industrial Hygiene situations.The response by HELIUS is a very nice concise summary of Lead and flux fume exposure.In all lead exposure situations the main danger is hand to mouth. Lead levels were significantly reduced when eating or especially smoking were eliminated at work stations (a long time ago). This goes for soldering as well as other Lead exposure. I'll bet that after soldering for a bit of time, you can notice some lead coloration of the skin of your fingers.Airborne Lead used to be a big problem when lead filler was sanded off, as in auto body manufacturing and repair. I do not think anyone uses lead filler anymore, it was essentially "outlawed" in manufacturing auto bodies.Dross from the top of molten lead pots can become airborne also. It is lighter than pure lead or pure solder.This and other problems have to be dealt with in lead smelting and recycling, especially of lead acid batteries.Colophony is really a wood product. Colophony allergy can be quite problematic and can be from inhaled or even skin exposure. It is mostly an allergy that does affect a small proportion of the population exposed.It used to be used in shoe manufacturing and did cause skin rashes, again allergy, so not everyone gets affected.It is also used as a binding agent in things like artists clay and can cause skin allergy in this form. Other binders in this category can cause skin allergy also. Again this is in a small proportion of the exposed, but that is no consolation for the poor people affected.There are other fancy fluxes, but these are not common in the solder we use.It is very unlikely for someone to get an allergy from occasional soldering, the studies on "flux disease" has been done (as HELIUS states) on groups of workers in an industrial setting, where exposure is much, much higher than one could ever expect in hobby use.If you are one of the "unlikely affected" again it is no consolation to know you were so unlucky.Exhausting flux fumes should just get the fumes away from your face, so exhausting sideways or down is preferable. Your face is UP from the work piece. Filtering in an enclosed space may be necessary, that is, if you want to decrease exposure. The best thing is to vent to outside, if you are really concerned. Filtering gets complicated since both particles and gasses are produced. Filters have a short usable life.Wood smoke probably contains many things found in flux fumes.Exhaust from LEAD processes should be DOWN since lead is heavy. But we are not really concerned about that.A slow steady suction is preferable, spot suction can easily create a breeze that can interfere with the heating necessary for soldering.I think a good test for the correct suction would be cigar smoke or maybe an incense stick. (If you can stand the smoke) You can see it going away from the work station. In respirator fit tests different "smells" can be used to see if the mask actually fits. This is a bit "old school" but can be used.If you are using filters and you can still smell the cigar, or see smoke coming from the extractor, the filter is not removing the smoke entirely. Having seen the smoke extractors that are sold, I'll betcha that none of these things will pass the smoke test.Having said all of this, It is really unlikely that any flux exposure experienced in hobby use is going to affect you at all.Even most people exposed all the time at work had no Noticeable problems.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 03:41:16 pm
content: Most cheap fume extractors are crap, even the expensive ones leave a lot to desire. Due to physics of airflow, you can't suck air from far away unless you have gigantic airflow. So you would need to solder very close to the extraction point, which is often impractical. Besides, the effectiveness of low-cost carbon filter is questionable.Much much easier is to pick any random $5 PC fan you probably have already laying around and make it blow, not suck. This prevents the smoke from rising directly to your nose. Then just arrange good ventilation during soldering session so that the smoke doesn't stay around in the room for a long time.

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 04:07:20 pm
content: Thanks again for help. Some people says i need proper filtration and ventialion, and some people say i dont. Thing is i am 25 and i dont want to take a risk. I want to buy proper fume extractor since i sleep in that room. I would really like if someone could give me opinion on which one to buy, which one do you thing is good priced and also has proper filtration with active carbon and HEPA.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 04:31:40 pm
content: I would only trust OSHA approved filters in the US. Occupational Safety and Health Administration.I do not know what agency approves filters where you are.I bet they are quite expensive and do not last long.

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 04:42:11 pm
content: Okay. Thank you very much for help!

author: slavoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 05:12:14 pm
content: Professional fume extractors with effective filters are quite expensive. Instead, you can use a regular fan and direct the airflow through a tube towards an affordable air purifier placed elsewhere. This is simple to setup, works well and provides easy filter replacement.

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 05:37:06 pm
content: That is excellent advice. Also i could have tube that goes outside of window. But, i need two tubes for soldering station rest and for working place and dont know how to make it. If there is any good device that can be bought, im in

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 09:18:37 pm
content: "nitrile rubber is also static dissipative which can help to protect electronics from static discharge"Good to know, I'd always thought it was the other way round, gloves acted as insulators and made it easier to stray chrages to accumulate and then cause ESD damage to devices touched. I've known a lot of people swear against wearing gloves when soldering, stating that as a reason.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 10:16:17 pm
content: I have an ESD Systems surface resistivity tester. I can use it to test a nitrile rubber glove if you are interested in knowing its static dissipation properties.

author: alligatorblues
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 02:05:10 am
content: I wear a rubber respirator with acid-gas/organic solvents canisters on it. About $18 on Zoro Tools. 3M makes them. They're good for about 8 years. Then you just toss them. I usually wear a jeweler's visor for soldering, so I'm up close. I also use an air cleaner: ionizer/ozonator, which completely cleans the air in a day. ~$200 on eBay.com. Having those air cleaners during the Canadian forest fires is a godsend.I also have a bulk ozonator for deodorizing my garage, my car, my cabin, and my basement. Takes out all odors. The ionizer charges particles in the air, and makes them stick to anything nearby. Lightning ozonates and ionizes the lower atmosphere, which keeps it clean. You can just smell how clean it is after a good thunderstorm. The rain help too, because each drop needs a particulate to form, and then takes it out of the air.Ozone present in photochemical smog is the atmosphere's way of cleaning itself. All the damage to breathing is due to the smog, not the ozone. But automakers don't want to be on the hook for all the health problems their products cause, so they blame ozone

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 02:02:39 pm
content: Here is something that is not perfect, but can really take A LOT of parties out of the air, and is relatively inexpensive.It is a whole room air purifier.I do not think the thing would really help with the stated "COVID" removal, but it looks like it would do a better job of removing particles than some of the more expensive ones.It is just a box fan with several furnace type HEPA filtersReally a whole room filter, not particularly one intended for spot air filtering like solder fume extractorshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box

author: RiRaRi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2023, 04:38:09 pm
content: Thank you all for advices. As my room is very small i need to have something really convenient like floor extractor because of modular pipes which can stay in place. Can anyone compare these two models and tell me which one is better and which one has better filtration? Thank you allhttps://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Solder-Fume-Extractor-Filters/dp/B0B8Z238QShttps://eleshop.eu/aoyue-fek-01-portable-soldering-fume-extractor.html