Need advise on a new Oscilloscope to meet my requirement but lost on brans - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2022, 08:38:37 am
content: Hi Everyone,If this post belongs to a different topic / subtopic, please forgive me and move where appropriate. also apologize for the mess you are about to read, I did my best to make it less painful for you.First, allow me to introduce myself, I go by Systops online, I am a Small Business Consultant who builds electronics projects both for hobby and for my clients. I stumbled upon the EevBlog Youtube channel and found the information in these videos fantastic, and I have learned a lot. The one thing I am struggling with, however, is choosing the right Oscilloscope for me and my projects.I recently purchased a Hantek DSO2d10, after having gotten a brand new Hantek 2D72, handheld Scope DMM, and Signal Generator. I really like the handheld one, but it can be a little difficult to use and isn't always the right tool for the job. So I figured it was time to get a desktop scope. Because I like the handheld and because the price was great, I went with a DSO2d10, and right away I encountered some bugs with inaccurate reading below certain thresholds, and other stability issues, but what really got me more than aggravated was that as I was setting it up to diagnose a board, the entire scope just locked up. nothing was working, the screen froze, none of the controls worked, etc...After researching the issue, I found a known bug and according to those who have encountered this, the problem has to do with the changing of settings too quickly and it locks up the entire scope. The only way to fix this was to reflash the firmware. However, finding the solution to this was impossible online, though many have said they have escalated this to Hantek, and Hantek is less then responsive with releasing any updates to their firmware that would address this and other issues.Thankfully, since my trust in Hantek has disappeared, the seller has agreed to let me return it for a full refund, so that means that I really need to buy another one, but here lies my problem. I have read many reviews of all the usual names, such as, Siglent, Rigol, GW Instek, Yeepook, FNIRSI, and others. The problem is that in reading reviews from all the different reviews out there, there seem to be serious problems with the quality of the results they provide, ongoing issues of bugs in the devices with little consideration from the manufacturers in addressing them and in some cases, please noted that the manufactures have seemingly deserted their support on these devices and keeping their Firmwares up to date, and little to no support when they have been reached out to.So here is why I am writing you guys in the hopes that you guys could help me by perhaps taking a look at a couple scopes that to me sound pretty good, but I have read some threads about these scopes here, and you guys really laid out your opinions on why many are not really as good as they seem, and that others may be OK, but the manufacturer provides little support for them, and even others where they seemed pretty good, but they provide little to no documentation or accessories which would be really helpful in its price range.So please allow me to start by outlining what I really need, as well as the features I actually want, though understanding that you can't always get what you want, making sure it does it's job is the most important attribute.Ok, here is my list of musts:2 Channel (4 if it can be done in my price range)100Mhz Bandwidth, though this can be negotiable1GSa/s Minimum sampling rate (The higher the better)At least 10M memory depth for each channelI2C/SPI/UART/CAN/LIN serial bus trigger and decoding functions1Mpts FFT frequency domain displayVertical Sensitivity (V/div) 1mV/div - 20V/div (The Hantek is 2mV/div - 10V/div)Timebase Range (s/div) 2ns/div - 100s/divTrigger Type Edge, Slope, Pulse Width, Window, Runt, Interval, Dropout, Pattern, Video - Not all required, just the main onesCapture Rate 100,000 wfm/s (normal mode), 400,000 wfm/s (sequence mode) - As close as possibleMinimum 7in d, the higher the resolution the better.Accessories: 2 Probes minimum, unless a 4 channel, in which case 4 would be nice, but 2 required.Windows Application (NOT just U-Disk for Screen Capture) I would like a full windows application allowing you to run the scope on Windows, and be able to capture the data and have enough resolution in the captured data that would allow for a forensic like look at the capture giving you more information than by using the scope alone (Interface either USB, however, LAN would be much better as the applications tend to run mini webservers which allow you to have far more control of the data.I have found a couple scopes which for the most part seemed to have fit the bill, that is until I read a thread on this very topic for someone else, and the things that were said, well, it was upsetting to hear that while I could purchase either machine they were talking about, the comments made me truly think twice.First Scope:Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 100 mhz Digital OscilloscopeInstek GDS-1102B 100 MHz, 2-Channel, 1 GSa/s, Digital Storage OscilloscopeProfessional Certified Hantek DSO4102S Desktop Mixed Signal Oscilloscope(MSO) 2CH Digital Storage Oscilloscope +1 Channel Arbitrary/Function Waveform Generator 100MHz 7" TFT 1GSa/s 25MHZ SignalOK, so those are the ones I was really looking to purchase, however, from what I read here, the Siglent Oscilloscopes are pretty good, but the support from Siglent is pretty much non-existent, the firmware isn't kept up to date, and they tend to not address any concerns being brought up by their users. Hence bugs found, are bugs that will persist.GW Instek also I hear is very good, but on the thread I read, these scopes seem to be better than the Siglent, and while I can't recall at the moment, you guys didn't have a whole lot of great things to say, sadly, I don't recall what the issues were, I think it had something to do with the memory, and that it is incredibly low, and there for it can't really provide you much deeper details that you may get in other similar scopes.Hantek, well, as you have previously read, I have 2, the DSO-2D10, well, support is also quite lacking and out dated firmware, they do not stay on top of changes required to keep the scope stable and are always available to use.There is actually one other thing that I would like to have but it is not a deal breaker and that is the ability for the scope to be multi domain, such as the Hantek DSO4102S Desktop Mixed Signal Oscilloscope(MSO) 2CH Digital Storage Oscilloscope +1 Channel Arbitrary/Function Waveform Generator 100MHz 7" TFT 1GSa/s 25MHZ Signal, although, since I do have a price limitation between $300-$375, the Hantel seems to be the only one that is a DSO and MSO. I would really like to have that ability, but I don't think it would be in my price range by anyone else.Now, I will be completely honest, I am lacking in my understanding of at least one parameter when you look for a scope and that is the bandwidth. For this reason, I have always used 100 Mhz, because it is one of the most common frequencies available in scopes, however, being that I haven't a full understanding of how the bandwidth correlates to any real-time example. It is totally true that I picked 100Mhz as my requirement for a new scope, I just chose this since a good majority of scopes I have looked at all seem to be 100Mhz, but I don't know if I would be able to use a different value for all the same usage. If I can troubleshoot all my projects with a 50Mhz then fantastic if not, how do I figure out what value I should be using if not 100Mhz.Bottom line, I really need to purchase a new Oscilloscope, with a large display, one that is reliable, and continually maintained by the manufacturer. I also need it to have desktop software that actually works with the scope and not just something to read the images from the U-Drive, this is one area where I don't want to compromise. The PC software was one of the reasons I chose Hantek originally, but sadly, their lack of quality and stability, along with their lack of maintaining the firmware with the latest bug fixes, has me worried that should I choose the one scope that encapsulates all of the features that I am looking for, it would be the Hantek, which has everything I need but the bandwidth is only 50Mhz, is this enough? I have no way of knowing. with any luck, you will be able to point me in the right direction and possibly even help me to narrow down the scope that I can buy tonight and get it shipped to me in the next couple days and I can stop losing money on penalties from my client and then I will be able to stop paying the fines to my client for voiding one of the clauses of our contract which makes me have to pay for his 3rd party security system until mine is back online.If I can provide any additional detail, or if you guys feel I have wasted a perfectly good post and your time, I would greatly appreciate that or any other feedback. I know this is a long and rather novice of a post, I did the best I could as I have never actually used an oscilloscope for anything then very basic things, however, I have far more experience with pretty much every other tool, but using it for debugging my boards, I know how, but I lack some key fundamentals which is really causing me to be at a loss when purchasing one. Thankfully, I am a quick learner, especially around experts like you all, and I truly value your input on this, it would mean a lot to me if you guys do take this seriously and not make fun of my extremely long post, I am not good at writing small straight to the point posts, and I have been ejected for groups for this reason, but I have severe learning disabilities, and short is extremely difficult.Lastly I don't know if the gentleman who created the Youtube videos ever reads threads such as this one, but I just wanted to add that his videos are extremely informative, and provides a lot of priceless information, and does so in a way that is easy for anyone on any level to understand. The amount of knowledge I have received from those videos has been extremely useful and I encourage him to never stop. The problem is that I don't think youtube can ever provide a metric on just how informative and how much of an impact those videos have on people like me who love electronics and rely on his channel for a lot of great information and the ability to learn amazing things.OK, enough from me, I would be eternally grateful, if you guys could give your thought to 1. The 3 scopes that I have listed as possibilities, and if they are worth their price, and how reliable they will be, and 2. If those scopes don't seem like the best choices for me, do to the accuracy of data, or their support and known issues would just not justify their purchase, then what recommendations would you guys and gals give to me for a couple scopes that should fulfill my needs/requirements. I really appreciate your replies in advance.Best Regards,SystopsPS - If it's at all possible, I would like to place my order for a replacement scope as soon as possible.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2022, 09:38:45 am
content: I'm not sure of proper answer, for question about scope bandwidth,...but will do some searches and read up, will get back to you, but:Bandwidth I relate to the fastest horizontal scale, you stated '2 nsec per division', that implies approx a 4 nSec sine wave would occupy two (screen) divisions, but the literal definition is done different. At 4nsec that would imply 250 Mhz is screen readable.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2022, 09:48:20 am
content: Looks like Tektronix definition is the point in frequency input, where the scope displays '30 % too low' on a curve that decreases, up at BW limit...Sounds a little troublesome, when needing good accuracy, but I bet the complete definition of BW can, like grounding issues, awaken a lot of discussion.I suppose the BW figure is most important when doing work on faster electronics / microwave systems and other hf systems.

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2022, 10:13:42 am
content: Thank you guys for your early responses. The numbers I used for the "requirements" were taken from my Hantek DSO 2D10 and the 2D72. From my limited use with those two scopes, it seemed to me that I was able to most of the information that was handy to me when troubleshooting my boards. So, I suppose those requirements are not set in stone? As mentioned, while I am quite advanced in electronics both DIY and working on projects for some of my clients. However, my expertise with an Oscilloscope is limited and all self-taught. The good thing is the more I use it, the more comfortable I am at getting the data that I need. So, I can't really say that those requirements are even what is appropriate for what I need. Since I am familiar with these scopes and able to get the data I need.I think what is the most important for me is a scope with high capture resolution, and the stability and reliability of the scope that is backed up by the manufacturer who makes the scope and promptly provides updates and fixes to the bugs / efficiency issues and interacts with the scope owners ensuring that when I buy a new scope, I need not worry if I uncover a bug, as I will have the confidence to know that the company takes these things seriously and that updates are common to address any problems in this firmware, and patches performance improvements. I want the scope to be relevant for the foreseeable future. Sadly, I had thought that Siglent would be my next scope until I read in one of the threads here, that it was the opinion of the writer that Siglent had declined over the years to provide any acceptable support for their products and that their scope are full of a large numbers bugs and reliability / stability issues. At the same time, another user reported that he had no run into such issues. So, to be blunt, I am too much a novice to know if what he said was true or not, but at this .This is why I have come asking what I am sure has been asked here numerous times. To not sound like a broken record I felt it necessary to provide my set of requirements, and ask the true professionals. I look forward to more replies and some excellent recommendations from you all. Again, Thank you!!!

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2022, 10:57:25 am
content: The problem here is that you want a lot in a price range that will never offer this.For proper support you will have to pay. Take a brand like keysight, apparently as a hobbyist you don't get support. There is a thread on this forum about that. Companies like Siglent and Rigol work hard on getting into the professional market and this means money. They will work on the problems with the more expensive line of equipment, but the bottom of the barrel remains mostly untouched.That said, if you want something to fulfill your requirements you will have to shell out more then the $375 you mentioned. (Did not read your post at full, but skimming showed this limit) And then you will still be at the bottom end.

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 12:19:12 am
content: Thanks for replying. While yes, my requirements seemed like a lot, though I should have been more clear there, those requirements are not set in stone, for example, I am highly doubting that I will be able to get a DSO & MDO in one device at my price range. That was more wishful / hopeful thinking, however, the rest of the requirements pretty much meet those on my Hantek 2D72 and DSO 2D10.All of the "requirements" with the exception of some of the numbers are the same as the low end machines. Which I suppose would then beg the question, well if you have 2 Scopes that already meet your requirements why are you looking for another one?Well, the problem is quite simple to answer. Hantek scopes are buggy! Very buggy! There are few updates to the firmware that would take care of most of these bugs but Hantek just barely releases any. The most frustrating bug I keep running into is if you change settings just a tad too fast, the scope completely locks. Nothing can be done once that happens, and the only way to fix it is to completely reflash the firmware, and Hantek knows of this issue, has not provided any fix for it, and doesn't even provide the workaround that I was able to find anywhere on their site. It just so happened that the company I bought it from was gracious enough to provide me an entire set of steps and applications that allow me to flash the firmware. It's extremely frustrating. On top of that, under 1mV (I believe it's 1mV) is completely inaccurate. I saw this on a Youtube channel from a guy, who similarly to EEVBlog, ran some benchmarks and found that the lower side voltages were completely bogus on the DSO2D10. That was highly disappointing.So, I was hoping to get a different desktop scope that would have as close to the same stats as the 2D10, but made by a company whose scopes are far more reliable and stable, not to mention accurate too!The Hantek ones also come with a nice Windows App for running the Scope and digging into the results right on the screen. This is an invaluable feature. Both the 2D10 and the 2D72 both come with their own software packages. The really nice thing os that I can use the 2D72 in Scope and DMM right on the laptop. So I was really hoping to have something similar. What makes the Hantek software better than most other ones is that it is almost real-time, as opposed to the others like OWON which has more than 1 sec or so before the screen refreshes, whereas Hantek is just milliseconds.So while I do not expect to get a top-of-the-line professional scope, I didn't want to dismiss that possibility without asking around first. Sometimes you can run across manufacturers who will release hobbyist, or semi entry level devices but they will actually be the quality of professional grade equipment. `That was sort of what I was hoping here, but if not, at the very least a scope whose data you can trust, build quality high, reliability, and stability based on the manufacturer staying on top of bugs and keeping the scope relevant for the foreseeable future. So perhaps I can't get everything I asked for in my requirements, but if I could find something comparable to the Hantek DSO2D10, that also includes really good Windows Software and not just a U-Disk, then I would be really happy.Perhaps with less restrictive requirements, I might get some better responsesThank you again for your replies!!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 01:43:54 am
content: I didn't read that wall of text but 2 common recommendations are:Rigol DS1054Z unlocked to 100 MHzSiglent SDS1104X-E unlocked to 200 MHzAt the purported bandwidth, the trace (and digital readout) will be -3db down. The good news is that the stated bandwidths are conservative and the Rigol -3db point is around 130 MHz. Don't know about the Siglent.Caveat: I have the Rigol and if I didn't I would buy the Siglent. It wasn't available when I bought the Rigol.I don't use the PC interface, I have no idea what it does or how it does it.

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 03:04:18 am
content: You are in the US, so there are a number of options in the $300-$375 range.The only 4-channel I am aware of in your budget is the GW Instek gds-1054bhttps://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/oscilloscopes/digital/50-mhz-4-channel-digital-oscilloscope-gds-1054b.htmI don't think it has all of the features you want, but it does have 10 MSample memory per channel, 1 GS/s, 1M FFT and serial decoding. While it is rated at 50 MHz, some folks measure theirs to be closer to 100 MHz (even unhacked)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-review-of-the-gwinstek-1054b/msg1114831/#msg1114831If you want more bandwidth, Amazon right now has the Siglent sds1202x-e for $287https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1202X-Oscilloscope-Channels/dp/B06XZML6RDOthers have already mentioned some other models worth looking into.In the end, only you know what you value the most and how much you can spend.Good luck,Jason

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 03:38:51 am
content: You know, I suppose I should have asked this question.I purchased the Hantek DSO2D10 for $182.00. This was before I knew about some of the major problems like the device locking up if you change settings too quickly and then needing to be reflashed each time, and the other doosy is the inaccuracy of the low voltages I want to say it's under 1mV but I also want to say it was anything under 1V, though I am unable to test anything that low as I don't have any sources that can go that low. The seller from AliExpress offered to take the unit back with no cost just shipping back to their US warehouse.So the better and more important question should be this, does anything think that I can get a much better Oscilloscope that would provide better features, more details in the captures, and a Windows Application, that would at the very least be on par with the DSO2D10, or would be far more advantageous too add another $75 -$100 to get another make of scope that would be a far better choice and have the Windows Application? If I would not see much of a difference between what I have and something around $100 give or take, then it might make more sense to just keep what I have and not bother with having to ship it back and wait for a refund. But if I can definitely get a much better scope for not too much more money, then yeah, I think it would be worth the trouble of returning it.That is where I would want to get as many suggestions of competing scopes and then set them side by side and see which one I think would be a better fit for what I need it for and my wallet. It's not that I really want to spend the additional money because honestly I don't but these bugs in the DSO2D10 are truly difficult to deal with. There is nothing worse than trying to set up for a capture and then I hit a button and turning a know too quickly and the scope just completely locks up requiring me to flash the firmware.I installed the latest firmware so I am hoping that these bugs have been addressed, but any who, if you guys recommend a couple different scopes where you not only trust the machine, but you have respect for the manufacturer as they actually do listen to their customers needs, and they keep their scopes relevant by keeping their software updated and allow the scope to grow over time, new efficiencies etc, well then that might just be good enough cause to return and then upgrade.I actually just realized that I don't need a signal generator, and my Hantek 2D72 handheld Oscilloscope is also a DMM and a Signal Generator, so I can use that should I need the signal generator, and it does not need to be in the desktop scope. That might help me get a better scope for the money.Well, I hope everyone had a very Happy Thanksgiving!! While I digest my turkey, I will come back and check tomorrow, and hopefully you all will be kind enough to add a couple more models for me to consider, and which ever one I choose, if that is the direction I should go, I will thank of something nice I can do for the person who suggested the winnerCheers everyone, Happy Thanksgiving, and I will check in tomorrow!Systops

author: planet12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 03:53:22 am
content: I have a Rigol DS1052E, hacked to 100MHz, and it's kept me going quite nicely, although I recently had to pull it apart as half the front panel buttons had stopped working reliably. Cleaned all the contacts + put a bit of backing tape on the connector cable to make the contacts press more firmly, and it's good as new again. I am currently thinking of upgrading to a Siglent (or maybe more modern Rigol, currently undecided).I've used a Hantek, and after that would not buy one myself. In fairness it's in a makerspace so who knows how it's been abused, but the operation of the interface I found confusing and offputting.I haven't used a GW Instek scope, but I have one of their bench multimeters (a GDM-8351 120,000 count) and am very very happy with it for the price.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 09:36:22 am
content: Quote from: Systops on November 24, 2022, 08:38:37 amThese are a 200 MHz DSO and currently on special promotion as a # of Siglent instruments are:https://siglentna.com/product/sds1202x-e/SDS1202X-E uses the Windows app EasyScopeX for PC control however it does require install of NIVISA Runtime as a minimum for the connectivity drivers.If you really want to see what it's capable of I recommend you follow this thread from where member Charlotteswiss orders hers and we go through all its functionality:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/msg3104228/#msg3104228OTOH if you can push your budget the 4ch SDS1104X-E operates at another level and offers a larger and better feature set. This later design can also use EasyScopeX for remote control however it has a web server too from which in any www browser you can operate it and grab screenshots straight to your PC.These are not officially on special but if you shop around the can be found much better priced than RRP $ 499.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 09:38:33 am
content: Quote from: planet12 on November 25, 2022, 03:53:22 amGive us a call as a heap of stock arrives next week.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 10:27:00 am
content: Bonjour à tousIn USA we use Tektronix scopes 246xB, 475, 2236.Digital are Yokogawa DL7440 and DL1740.In Paris we found excellent 10, 20 MHz 1, 2 ch German Hameg scopes, for €5 and €25 at fleas and street sales. pix is Hameg HM203 with UK 2 MHz function generator ( gift!).Simple and easy to use Analog.....fine for 95% of use!Bon journéeJon

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 05:21:09 pm
content: Quote from: Systops on November 25, 2022, 03:38:51 amAs pointed out by tautech, I suspect that the Siglent sds1202x-e would be a significant improvement on the Hantek. My understanding is that it will not crash all the time, and that it should be plenty accurate. It would cost you an extra $105 with the current Amazon sale. Have you read the thread for the DSO2X1X series scopes? There are a lot of frustrated owners over there. For example:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-hantek-dso2x1x-models/msg4119268/#msg4119268EDIT: I should add that whether a more professional and functional device is worth $105 extra is 100% dependent on your needs and financial constraints.jason

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 08:03:39 pm
content: The one part that has me confused, and this is because I am not by any means an expert when using scopes is the bandwidth. The one you mentioned is a 50Mhz, and what I don't know is when this bandwidth comes into play, meaning how would I know how to decide if a 50Mhz or 100Mhz is right for me? My Hantek 2D72 is a handheld DSO, DMM, and Signal generator, and this is what I used as my specs for a desktop scope since this scope works well for my needs, it's just a little too small.I got that one for free, because I was returning it to Amazon because of how small the screen is, and didn't realize just how hard it would be to see until I got it, and when I went to return it, they refunded me, but told me to keep it and not return it! You need not tell me that twice!It was then I decided to get a larger scope and went with the 2D10 which was on sale on Ali, but the bugs in it are just too debilitating to be able to use it reliably. Having to flash the firmware every few minutes because I am impatient when changing settings is a bit much.I am going through and looking at all of the suggestions, but the bandwidth is something I just don't understand, and don't know if more bandwidth is better or is there a cut off from when the bandwidth becomes too high and therefor not worth it to get a higher bandwidth scope or am I good with a lower bandwidth like 50Mhz.Thanks!Systops.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 08:13:28 pm
content: Scope BW is determined by the frequency of a fixed amplitude sinewave when the amplitude is displayed 3dB down.It's typical a BW rating is exceeded by 10% and sometimes somewhat more and when doing these BW checks I use a quality generator supplying a 1V p-p waveform and keep increasing frequency until it's displayed as 0.707V.So at rated BW tests might show it 2dB down, say 80-90% or original amplitude.BW rating in a DSO is governed by a # of things including the analog front ends ability to pass HF frequencies and not attenuate them.

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 08:20:21 pm
content: Thank you for that clarification, so it would seem then that a 70Mhz - 100Mhz would really be ideal for me.... There was a link to a Siglent which I really liked but the BW was 50Mhz which I think would be a bit too low. So I should probably try to stick with a 100Mhz or higher, which means the $ pretty much goes up.As for as brands go, it sounds like you guys seem to think that Siglend, Rigol, or GW Instek would be the best choices for me. Would this seem to sound about right?I would like if possible to order one today, as it doesn't sound like from what I read that any of these units would be marked down for Black Friday or Cyber Monday, if this is true, then buying today, wouldn't risk me missing out on any sales that may occur. I bring that up because I have a bad habit of buying things that are on the expensive side and then they always seem to drop in price after I buy. lol This is just my luck!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 08:33:21 pm
content: One of the best BW bang for buck you already have on your list, the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E.

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 08:45:05 pm
content: Amazon has that scope for $287 for the 2 channel 200Mhz, this is right in my price range. So perhaps this could be my next scope ) I am awaiting a reply back on that thread you pointed me to for the code. I hope that will work for me!

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 08:51:49 pm
content: Does anyone have any thoughts on this scope?GDS-1102B Instek Digital Oscilloscope 100Mhzhttps://www.valuetronics.com/product/gds-1102b-instek-digital-oscilloscope-new?gclid=CjwKCAiA7IGcBhA8EiwAFfUDsfIu8k4IYLXHBFwqBHZelwiurDcbUIEqi-Km7l4qipAwFqJamrqxyBoC-hMQAvD_BwEThis would be in comparison to theSiglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz Digital OscilloscopeBoth are 2 channel. I just don't know anything about the attention paid to firmware updates or if it comes with any Windows Apps like the Siglent does. Thoughts?I think I have narrowed it down to these two, the Instek also has a 10% Black Friday coupon code

author: jasonRF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 09:18:58 pm
content: Quote from: Systops on November 25, 2022, 08:51:49 pmDid you bother to look at the datasheets or google for answers? It took under 1 minute to find the datasheet and skim it to find that there is a software package called Openwavehttps://www.gwinstek.com/en-GB/products/downloadSeriesDownNew/1729/135I will leave you to google on your own to see if it has the kind of functionality you want. Likewise for comparing the features and specs of the two models you are considering.At face value I would expect either would be reasonable and could probably do most of what you would ever need from a 2-channel scope. Personally, I would probably pick the Siglent since it is physically smaller and more sensitive, but that is a personal preference.jason

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2022, 12:50:30 am
content: You might try going to a Hamfest.I have too many scopes and just because of that, I passed up a nice Tek 300 MHz scope with the probes in very nice condition for about $150.Just last week. Lots of stuff appearing recently for good prices.At that price you can also afford a proper Spectrum Analyzer

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2022, 06:36:27 pm
content: Hi Jason,byyitqiYes I did look at the datasheet as well as did a comparison, unfortunately, as I mentioned, I am not anywhere near an expert when it comes to scopes. I know how to use them, and I understand what I am reading, the problem is, that I have no experience with the brands. When I read the specs on the Hantek, and it has everything I needed, and on paper looked like a great buy, what I had not realized is how unstable it was, how intrusive the bugs were, and the lack of support, and I don't mean customer contacts manufacturer support, I mean support to fix the bugs and keep the scope relevant by not updating the firmware etc to address the bugs that had been escalated to them over a year ago. So honestly reading all of that as I had previously done.I was only asking to see if anyone has owned either unit or has had any experience with the GW Instek. Size isn't a concern, having a reliable scope that I can count on and one where if bugs are encountered, I can rest comfortably knowing that any bugs will be fixed in due time.The one thing I did like about the GW was that it (yes this is trivial) comes with buttons on the right and bottom of the screen, meaning that it would be much easier to navigate the menus without having to go digging and find the options. It's just a little faster when you don't have to go digging through the menus I just don't know how well they are as far as accuracy etc.It sounds like most of you all have recommended the Siglent, which is why I decided to purchase the Siglent. It would appear to me that all the complaints I read about them aren't really an issue anymore, and with all the recommendations, it would seem that the Siglent would be the way to go.The only downside is that I can't see anywhere that says it comes with a Windows app. It also mentions additional features which only seem to be available on the 4 channel, but the 1202E-X 4 channel only comes with those extra features, but I can not find this mode in a 4 channel. I did look at the other 4 channel ones, and they have different 4 channels, but none for this model and the 4 channels I can find are way out of my price range, and oddly, the features that the additional features don't seem to come on this 4 channel, of which I don't know what exactly.I suppose if it doesn't work for me, I can always return it since I bought it on Amazon, and returns are simple, then I might go with the GW..Man I hate buying expensive things when I really don't know much about the thing that I am buying. Thankfully there is a forum kike this one where you have been very helpful. it still doesn't help that I don't know the hardware all that much. I guess either one would be good. The 1202X-E doesn't mention software, so let us hope it's there, they just didn't mention it, or maybe there is 3rd party software available? IDK, Anyway, I am stuck between the Suglent and the GW. Hopefully between the two, hopefully 1 of them will be exactly what I ned.Thanks for all your help!John aka Systops

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2022, 08:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: Systops on November 26, 2022, 06:36:27 pmOurs to NZ come with a CD with all manuals and SW loaded however you can download all this from any official Siglent website.EasyScopeX is here:https://int.siglent.com/download/softwares/?ProId=12All manuals:https://int.siglent.com/download/documents/?ProId=12Before installing EasyScope RTFM so to get the correct order and install NIVISA Runtime first.About the feature set vs 4ch X-E's, SDS1202X-E was the first model in this form factor and design and there were to be more models in this 2ch range however when our host Mr Jones sniffed the ports to investigate hacking BW in the 100 MHz SDS1102X-E he was sent for review Siglent chose not to release the 100 MHz model to the west and only released the 200 MHz model and left Mr Jones with probably the only SDS1102X-E in the west.All this happened not long after Xilinx processor release which Siglent has since embraced for all subsequent models and in this class SDS2202X-E/SDS2352X-E followed soon after and then the 4ch models, all of which have the same form factor however a few differences in feature sets.SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E while sharing many features are different beasts and world leaders in this class of DSO but at $ 500 they are just a stretch too far for many and why Siglent developed the cheaper 4ch SDS1104X-U for $ 399 somewhat more closely spec'ed to the SDS1202X-E although the 2ch X-E has some better specs, higher BW of course but better FFT and input sensitivity too.Anyways I'm sure you'll be quite happy with SDS1202X-E and remember we dove deeply into its capabilities in the thread with member Charlotteswiss so dig that out from my previous link and bookmark it in your PC.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2022, 08:45:29 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 26, 2022, 08:29:55 pmI'd say only if the money is really important and/or the $399 deal doesn't reappear. The SDS1104X-E is a much better 2-channel 200MHz scope than the SDS1202X-E.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2022, 10:15:05 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 26, 2022, 08:45:29 pmSure, certainly at $ 399 the SDS1104X-E is a hell of a deal as you well know and when it was around I couldn't understand why they were offered so cheap, the same price as SDS1104X-U !I still think it was a mistake when the X-E may have been sold by mistake instead of the X-U.SDS1202X-E OTOH has been reduced until years end to $ 339 which makes it good buying if you need the BW.A little like SDS2202X-E which offers 2 GSa/s sampling in a 350 MHz design for just $ 620.

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 12:02:25 am
content: Unfortnately money is a bit of an issue, especially since I have to lay out the cash before I get my refund on the Hantek 2D10. The Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz Digital Oscilloscope 2 Channels I managed to get for $279 on Amazon, which I thought was a great price considering.The Siglent Technologies SDS1104X-U 100MHz Super Phosphor Digital Oscilloscopes 4 Channels I was able to find for $399, but I am not sure I can justify that price, I mean how much more am I truly getting for the extra $100? Would it have been a better idea to have gone with this 4 channel as opposed to the 2 channel I ordered? I mean I can always return the 2 channels if the extra $100 would truly make a large enough difference that it would be silly not to upgrade? I will leave that up to you guys to decide as you know far more then I. I am almost considering purchasing it, and seeing for myself, but I would hate to do that since I know the seller will get charged for the return. So it might be good for me, but the seller may be none too happy. That is, if the seller actually wants it back. It seems that many sellers would rather let you keep a returned item then pay Amazon to process the return. After all, this is how I got the Hantek 2D72 handheld scope for free, they told me to keep t and still refunded me. I mean that can't be good for the seller... That said, if you all think I should go with the 4 channel, then I will order that one, and return the 2 channel which will be here tomorrow.I would love to hear your thoughts between the two, 2 channel vs 4 channel, though they are different model numbers.Cheers,John aka Systops

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 12:31:44 am
content: In reality we do the largest portion of scope work with just a channel or 2 and decoding protocols and sussing digital systems are the primary needs for more channels but some never even do this sort of work.Going to 4 channels early gives you the chance to follow these paths if needed or just work in a more constrained style with just 2 channels.For $120 more I say instead consider putting that towards an AWG.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 02:10:29 am
content: If debugging the SPI interface is ever a consideration (and for the most part it could be done with a logic analyzer), 4 channels is nice because the bus uses 4 signals. You trigger on CS' and watch MOSI, MISO and SCK. That fills up all 4 channels.You not only get decoding, you get to see signal quality and that's something you simply can't do with a LA.As I said, a logic analyzer is another approach but really fast LAs aren't free either. It sort of depends on how fast you are running the bus.When you buy a LA, make sure it has a state clock input for debugging sequential circuits like Finite State Machines.I really WANTED the 4 channels. I can't say that I really NEED them because I got along for decades with a 10 MHz 2 channel Heathkit. You just need to be creative!I like having 4 channels...

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 04:44:56 am
content: Well, you guys talked me into it! I decided to buy the Siglent Technologies SDS1104X-U 100MHz Super Phosphor Digital Oscilloscopes 4 ChannelsI will return the Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz Digital Oscilloscope 2 Channels when it comes in. I will have to open it, and come up with a good excuse as to why I am returning it, so that I don't have to pay the return shipping. Perhaps I will go with the "The product description didn't match what I received". I will use this because the product description keeps mentioning features that come on the 4 channels, and it had me a bit confused!I figured you guys really made a good case for the 4 channel because I have a ton of Raspberries and Arduino as well as a few ESP32's, all of which have SPI, and I use SPI quite a bit, infact, I use UART, 12C, and SPI quite a bit, so I can see where this will come in handy!While I really did not want to spend that much, I will just have to take a break from purchasing for a whole, and I hope, but doubt it will come with all 4 probes, I think the 4 channels usually only come with 2, and I have another 2 from my Hantek, though that may not work if I next them and the 2 I have only go up to 80Mhz, so I don't believe I can use these with this scope as I am sure that mixing 2 different spec'ed probes can be used together. I am sure that would screw up my data. Either way, if this scope is everything you all say it is and it has better features than the 2 channel, it sounds like I may be in business.What I would really like, though since I am not a retailed, or a professional, I would suspect that Siglent wouldn't be willing to send me a test board with it, though i am going to asklol,Thanks again for the advise!John aka Systops

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 05:03:24 pm
content: Not only did I get the Siglent Technologies SDS1104X-U 100MHz Super Phosphor Digital Oscilloscopes 4 Channels for $399, but the Amazon rep gave me a $50 discount because I told him that the Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz Digital Oscilloscope 2 Channels was defective so I could return it free.:popcornYAY, so I will have the 4 channel one tomorrow!CheersJohn aka Systops

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 06:06:39 pm
content: QuoteQuotecome and live in the uk and pay at least £60 (around $70) more

author: Systops
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 01:56:25 am
content: No thanks I will pass! Once I get the new scope tomorrow, the price will actually go down to $349So I am not going to complain!

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2022, 04:10:41 am
content: I'm trying to digest what you are up to here, I don't have the time to read huge walls of text.From what i gather you have customers and if so that implies professional usage. If that is the case I really don't understand your focus on extremely low end scopes. For professional usage I've paid more than $300 for a DMM. So when it comes to scopes it might help to define what you are doing with them.One other thing, these days I'm not too sure there is much wisdom in buying a two channel scope. Technology has made 4 channel scope very affordable and of high quality. The only thing to be careful of here is to make sure that you are not cut short on digitizing capability.If this was a shoe string hobby I'd be far more inclined to support the cheap end. Such instruments though usually quickly show their limitations in professional use. This post is likely late but if the purchase has yet to be made I'd see if the budget could be rerigged for something higher end.