How saturated is 5.8GHz in your home? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 04:23:03 pm
content: I would like if you help me do a little survey.It is well known fact that 2.4GHz is absolutely saturated in densly populated city building where people live.Almost everyone have wifi,bluetooth,microwaves,wireless mouse,keyboard and countless other wireless electronics using the worldwide unlicensed ism band.It is for long time a fact that getting good 2.4GHz connection is in many cases almost impossible due to interference.There is limited number of channels,limited bandwidth and if I do wifi scan in my home for example,I register 25 wifi routers,other people report even bigger numbers.Do a 5.8GHz scan and take screenshot of it and post it there,or just comment on how much is 5.8GHz saturated where you live.Is it as bad as 2.4? Is it better? I have read conflicting opinions,one say that 5.8 is much less problematic when it comes to interference,other say its becoming just as bad as 2.4,what is truth in your home?Also write how densely is the area you live populated.I imagine on farm or forest house there is no problem,I am mainly interest for those who live in city.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 07:42:54 pm
content: Not a single reply?Why! I expected I get loads of replies instantly,this is very common and very simple! Almost everybody have the new AC wifi standard that uses 5.8 band .You can download app on your tablet or pc that lets you look what channels are being used by nearby routers like a spectrum analyser.I expect you know how to make and upload screenshot,and if thats too much to ask then describe it by your own words,for example "this area is more saturated than fats inside bacon,theres atleast three transmitters sitting on each channel" or "significantly less interference than 2.4"

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 08:11:36 pm
content: I would have answered but my response is a waste of time for you. I have zero 5.8GHz channels visible where I am. Why? I am in the middle of nowhere, in the Atacama desert.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 08:13:07 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on October 24, 2017, 07:42:54 pmRelax a little.You asked a question about 5.8GHz at home when most of the US was at work (and EU if they'd already arrived home probably hadn't had dinner and settled down into their evening downtime doing favors for other EEVBlog enthusiasts.).

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 08:44:12 pm
content: Moderate city environment.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 08:51:57 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 24, 2017, 08:11:36 pmDo you happen to be working on a telescope?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 09:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 24, 2017, 08:51:57 pmActually I do astronomy tours, I have a telescope which need sot be mounted for my use, I have worked at ALMA, ACT, and was here originally in 2009 for Discovery Channel making videos about astronomy in Chile.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 10:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 24, 2017, 09:56:24 pmSweet. That's a place I'd like to visit some day for sure.

author: ahbushnell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:00:31 pm
content: I live in the suburbs of San Diego. At home I have 2 channels on 5 GHz. One of them is mine and the other someone else. The other signal is weak.On 2.45 I see my 2 WiFi's and 4 or 5 other weak ones.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:27:26 pm
content: In San Diego as well, can see 5 SSIDs on 5GHz of which 3 are mine. 2.4GHz is a lot messier with 9 SSIDs with 4 of them mine. My mining smartphones/tablets (which, being cheap and/or old, can only do 2.4GHz) seem to work pretty well despite the far from optimal conditions.

author: cvanc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:46:16 pm
content: North side of Chicago

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 12:37:47 am
content: The data is here:https://wigle.net/You just need to process it yourself, I don't think they offer a channel map.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 05:28:27 am
content: For where I live there are only two 5.8GHz AP’s, both in my apartment. (My apartment had a concrete weight bearing wall with dense rebar metalwork in the middle of it, impenetrable by virtually all kinds of wireless signal.)

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 06:43:19 am
content: I live in a somewhat densely populated area. While my three access points can see about 90 different networks on 2.4 GHz in 24 hours, with the highest signal level being -64 dBm and most of them around -85 dBm, on 5.8 GHz I see just four and the signal level is -89 dBm.The explanation is simple. Apart from being much less popular, half the wavelength means stronger attenuation due to walls.So, even if the band becomes more popular, congestion will be less of a problem. Also, the band is much larger despite being shared with meteorologic radars.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 06:47:55 am
content: Quote from: borjam on October 25, 2017, 06:43:19 amNot to mention the lack of overlap. At the 2.4 GHz frequency, there is a lot of overlap between channels.

author: Mjolinor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 06:53:58 am
content: I live in a town of around 50k people and have a "B/G" and "A" omnis on my chimney.Last time I looked, a year or so ago, "A" is absolutely empty apart from the channels I am using.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 07:37:23 am
content: i have 5 detectable hotspots here, 6 including my currently switched off 4G HP, but i believe all of them are 2.4GHz. as for 5.8GHz, i have a wireless video system currently offline at the backstore of the lab... whenever i feel like free i will fly it and make 5.8GHz space 1 line busier...Quote from: technix on October 25, 2017, 05:28:27 amnot by ELF

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 07:43:42 am
content: Village area, little space between the houses, 1 to 3 households per houseone AP providing 2 SSIDs visible on 5Ghz,12 SSIDs on 2.4GHz visible to my router, 2 of them from the same AP as the 5GHz oneIn total 10 APs visibleSo 5GHz is either rarely used or I it's the effect of its shorter rangeBTW, I don't mind about the crowdyness of the WIFI bands, I prefer to use cables.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 08:53:17 am
content: Neighborhood with 2-in-1 houses.Zero other 5 GHznetworks.17 other 2.4 GHz networks, I can't do a usage scan since that would disconnect all clients.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 09:51:53 am
content: Thank you all very much!I hope to see many more reports,it seems so far 5.8 is significantly less overcrowded

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 09:56:07 am
content: Getting awful crowded on *MY* 5.8ghz FPV band.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 10:12:46 am
content: But isnt FPV for flying drones? Thats still interesting information,I wonder if inside your home the situation is better.Also while you say you are getting awfully crowded,drones fly 100 meters away easily,while home wifi or bluetooth device is most of the time within 10 meter distance,so the drone is more susceptible to interference.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 10:55:46 am
content: Once I get a power cord for my spectrum analyzer, I shall return with this information, as they are, if any, too weak to recieve as wifi.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 03:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on October 24, 2017, 04:23:03 pmJust to be clear, I assume you mean 5GHz Wi-Fi, and not specifically 5.8GHz. (5GHz Wi-Fi uses frequencies from 5.170GHz to 5.875GHz, with additional lower frequencies, all the way down to 4.910GHz defined but currently not used anywhere.)Anyone saying that 5GHz Wi-Fi is as congested as 2.4GHz is an idiot.In my apartment in downtown Zurich, not including my own, I’ve got sixteen 5GHz and twenty-one 2.4GHz Wi-Fi networks in range at the moment. Given 5GHz’s plethora of channels (in Switzerland 28), not even close to congested.

author: SaabFAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 04:33:29 pm
content: 2 WLANs in the 5Ghz-Band (one of them mine).About 20 in the 2.4Ghz-Band stationary + the mobile ones in the public transport busses.Location: Appartment-Building in the district Winterhude in Hamburg, Germany.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 04:54:03 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on October 25, 2017, 12:37:47 amThat data looks pretty old (and inaccurate?)It shows four different items at my home. Three of them I never heard of, and the fourth is my old WiFi which I haven't used in several years. My current WiFi is not listed. And the streets/roads are literally awash in items which seem to be cell phones)?) Certainly not WiFi nodes as we would think of them. Unless everyone has WiFi in their car except me.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 05:36:22 pm
content: I'm not sure 'saturated' is a word I would use, but I live in the suburbs - so not an apartment block. Also 5.8GHz I don't think is as popular, but given it has less penetration, I would have thought interference would be less of an issue?Also...QuoteWell-known fact? I know its a very popular band with millions of devices operating on it.. but I don't think its a 'well-known fact' its saturated. Also... what do you mean by that word? If it truly was saturated, then 'all these devices' wouldn't work.But they do... the two main spread-spectrum technologies, DSSS and FHSS, especially direct sequence does a remarkable job of carrying data over a channel that's below the noise floor, with many over lapping channels. Just because inSSIDer shows 20 networks - doesn't mean to say 'all available bandwidth is used up, so you can't operate anything else here'.Granted - given 10+ wireless networks it is unlikely you're going to get the full speed from your network, but it falls back fairly gracefully to get some sort of service. Whilst you assume its all rammed and nothing works, I'm thoroughly impressed at how bluetooth, proprietary wireless mice/keyboards (NRF24L01s!), WiFi co-exist.If you're getting poor range/speed on 5.8GHz, other users isn't the only cause. You'd be surprised at just how many dead spots there are in a building. I get the impression you've heard/read about 5.8Ghz and 2.4Ghz usage, rather than actually measuring it yourself. Using a WiFi analyzer will only show.. surprise surprise.. WiFi networks. But if you have several wireless devices, and they all seem to work - why does it matter how many other devices are on the band?

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 06:12:58 am
content: The 5 GHz is almost never as "full" as 2.4GHz, and I doubt it will ever be. Reason is simple: Attenuation due to objects and walls.The range on a 2.4 GHz signal (in a practical enviroment with walls and such in the way) is generally further than a 5 GHz signal (in wifi) because of the fact that 5 GHz is more sensitive to things like walls and such being in the way. That means that if every accespoint sends out both a 2.4 and a 5 GHz signal, you will still see far more 2.4 GHz signals in any given place than the 5 GHz ones. This is the same reason why they are so happy to go to 60 GHz for the next generations (next to the stupid amounts of bandwidth and such available at those frequencies). A decently sized book will stop the signal.As a result there is far less interference from external source and it means less effort needed to get a good SNR (=high bandwidht) for your communication.On top of that the amount of channels in the 5 GHz band is a lot larger. So even if there were the same amount of acces points available at a given location, the 5 GHz band would still be less "congested"

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 04:59:06 am
content: CenturyLink is using the 5.8 GHz band for their wireless television set top box for users of their Prism TV service, delivered by fiber to the home. I wonder how popular that service will be.