Another dangerous Amazon product - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 03:45:49 pm
content: Apparently, the cure for an outlet that is so worn out that it cannot hold the plug is to tape the plug into the outlet. Does Amazon sell these in other countries or are they only trying to burn down the USA? There are so many products out there now that are just scary.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 03:48:53 pm
content: How many grandmothers are buying these to hold their power strip plug-in into the outlet and then without any thought to the bad connection, run other stuff on the power strip like a TV, sat box, surround sound system and an occasional vacuum cleaner?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 03:54:59 pm
content: Get the glow-in-the-dark pack it's safer!

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:06:36 pm
content: Just in time for space heater season!Personally, I just replace loose outlets and don't tell anybody.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:28:49 pm
content: Hey now, it "improves electrical connection." Obviously that's safe, right?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:53:48 pm
content: Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 13, 2023, 04:45:55 pmYou're not allowed to do that in US. Nor locally purchased devices have such plug.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:53:59 pm
content: Only use the gold plated ones. 😃

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:54:28 pm
content: Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 13, 2023, 04:45:55 pmSo you are seriously suggesting that an entire country should transition from ancient, crappy and dangerous plug design into another ancient, crappy and equally dangerous plug design, the one which required the legislation to limit EV/plug in hybrid charging to mere 8A, half of the rated current, because of all the fires that ensued when people tried to use the sockets and plugs at manufacturer's advertised ratings? Give me a break, why don't we all transition into one common plug/socket - namely the UK one (which is specifically fun to step on).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 13, 2023, 04:54:28 pmIt's not as crappy or dangerous though. European plugs and sockets prevent you from touching prongs of a partially unplugged plug. But it's very easy to do on US plug.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:59:19 pm
content: Clearly, the US should upgrade to a BS1363 plug and socket system.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:00:35 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on November 13, 2023, 03:45:49 pmAre deliberately trying to get folks to type "snug plug" into amazon's search bar?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:05:35 pm
content: Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 13, 2023, 04:59:01 pmUnlike in Latvia where nobody cares about that in existing buildings and likely Poland too, you can get a very hefty fine for that in US. EDIT: and good luck with home insurance.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 13, 2023, 04:54:28 pmWhat legislation is that? Schuko portable EV chargers run at 12 amps, 75% of the 16 amp rating. That's what VW ship with their European cars...

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:56:06 pm
content: US Hospital Grade devices must meet the attached standard. There is a similar standard for commercial grade (including residential)https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/hospital-grade-plug-and-receptacles.asp

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:58:37 pm
content: Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 13, 2023, 05:07:11 pmYeah yeah yeah shucko / CEE7 / blah blah blah. No thanks.Trying to unplug my charger and the socket comes off the wall and look what's in there - things to touch!Also generally used in places where electrical "safety" looks like thisThose are two separate places for ref over 100 miles apart. Not the same place.Also they had a hair dryer you could use while showering in another place.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:20:29 pm
content: Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 13, 2023, 05:07:11 pmIt doesn’t enforce polarity, and the plugs are twice the size they need to be.People should look at the Swiss plug system. It’s compact, safe, and has some really neat features (like three-phase outlets that accept single-phase plugs without needing any adapters or anything.)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:27:49 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 13, 2023, 06:20:29 pmIt's rated for 10A, so hell no. Not as little power available as in US, but still, hell no. My pressure washer and welder are too power hungry for these.

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 13, 2023, 05:58:37 pmNow, now, now. The fault in the first picture is a truly global one. Possible with all outlets. It is unfair to attribute that to CEE 7/7.Second, having had some familiarity with where you take your pictures, I posit that the bathroom horror, is not, in fact, a CEE 7/7. Nor is it a CEE 7/1, the closest lookalike. I believe it is a GOST 7396 socket.Further,there is no such thing as a 7/7 socket.7/7 refers to the plug that is compatible with both the 7/3 socket (German style "Schuko", two exposed ground rails.) and the 7/5 socket ("French outlet", with a protruding ground pin, also, for the benefit of people who still think we're running DC, polarised).Go read theWikipedia page. It is informative.Finally, I like the Schuko. When installed properly, it will easily carry the 10A it was allowed to do before the EU changed the laws of physics in Sweden and allowed it to carry 16.If you want more, there'sIEC 60309. Which is a right proper standard for high current.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:40:28 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on November 13, 2023, 06:34:42 pmHow is a human supposed to comprehend such "standards"?We have: plug, socket. Plug always works with socket

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:46:54 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 13, 2023, 06:40:28 pmYou also drive on the wrong side of the road :-D60309 is comprehensive, though. Both plugs and sockets. But don't go forcing a 216-4h plug (often yellow) into a 216-6h (probably blue) outlet, so it is more "Plug will work with socket under some circumstances".

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:48:00 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 13, 2023, 06:20:29 pmOr the very similar looking (lacking the three-phase bits, though) IEC 60906-1.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on November 13, 2023, 06:46:54 pmI'm not going to argue over the wrong side of the road thing. I prefer driving on the right!As for the plug compatibility thing

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:55:41 pm
content: Quote from: mansaxel on November 13, 2023, 06:46:54 pmI can confirm that this does happen on construction sites. Makes you thankful for proper circuit protection, and also the end of the working day

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 10:28:17 pm
content: Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 13, 2023, 10:21:09 pmIt is not DC but there is polarity. Line and neutral cannot be connected in opposite ways unlike with European CEE 7/7 plugs you mentioned (with exception when combined with French and apparently Polish type E outlets).

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 11:26:14 pm
content: Also, careful use of three-phase mains keeps track of "rotation", the lag/lead between the three live phases.Otherwise, a three-phase motor will turn in the opposite direction.https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/motors-drives-pumps-compressors/dont-run-it-backwardsto sell Fluke rotation metershttps://www.walterswholesale.com/hubbell-wiring-hbl2723-4-wire-3-pole-polarized-connector-body-250-volt-ac-3-phase-30-amp-nema-l15-30r-black-white-twist-lock-insulgripto sell NEMA twist-lock polarized connectors

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 12:16:29 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 13, 2023, 11:26:14 pmThere is a way around that.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 09:04:02 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 13, 2023, 05:21:26 pmYou are right, I stand corrected, it isn't mandatory legislation, just national recommendations. Actually here people and companies take those recommendations seriously enough that finding a schuko portable evse over 8A takessomeeffort, only better equipped stores sell them. (And you can hear claims they are illegal when they are not. In any case, the whole discussion triggered from poor safety of 16A rated Schuko sockets and plugs when used anywhere near 16A, across many well-known manufacturers, even when the plugs are not visibly damaged. As mansaxel points out, 10A would be a more suitable rating.)A decade back, I was present when there was lobbying going to make that 8A limit into EU legislation but I'm glad it didn't happen. But car manufacturers seem to take that seriously, too, e.g. Nissan Schuko chargers run at recommended 8A.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 12:47:07 pm
content: QuoteThey've pulled similar crap in the uk,our sockets,to comply with the appropate BS standards are required to chuck out at least 13A ,but that aint good enough,if the socket is to be used to charge EV's it needs to be a "special" socket complete with a little ev symbol.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 01:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 13, 2023, 06:27:49 pmThe Swiss plugsystemencompasses both 10A and 16A variants in both single- and three-phase types. The 16A three-phase socket accepts all the plug variants.For any loads larger than this, the big “CEE industrial” (IEC 60309) system is used.

author: The Doktor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 01:32:24 pm
content: The problem is that they're made of plastic and prevent one side of the plug from making contact. Just mae them from pure copper and they'll work great

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 02:28:59 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on November 13, 2023, 03:45:49 pmThe image shown when the thumbnail is clicked isn't the same as the thumbnail. Perhaps if you'd posted the Amazon ASIN it would be ovbious what it's about, but as it is it's completely opaque.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 05:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on November 14, 2023, 02:28:59 pmI had two screenshots but deleted one before posting, not sure why they got mixed up.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 05:53:58 pm
content: Thanks

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 07:13:05 pm
content: That snug plug one was something else I wanted to comment on, being it will just wedge the connector into the plastic opening on the outlet with no guarantee the fatigued contacts inside are touching any better (and only on one side now). I had no idea the pictures got switched around.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 07:37:37 pm
content: I think it's an EEVBlog server thing. Meant to keep us on our toes or something.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 09:09:25 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 13, 2023, 06:48:00 pmIndeed. It looks like it uses slightly thicker pins to enable it to always be 16A. No three-phase version though.I also wonder why they switched the position of line and neutral in 60906-1 compared to the Swiss (and NEMA) outlets.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 11:50:19 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on November 13, 2023, 03:48:53 pmSounds like its intended for this two prong low power device:https://www.amazon.ca/HomePod-Management-Drilling-Excellent-Accessory/dp/B09VDL1FYVIf you use it for something else that is kind of your own problem.edit: vacuums generally recommend to plug directly into the wall, not into a power strip. You can also use extension cords in series and burn down your house, should we not be allowed to sell low current extension cords too?

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 10:39:30 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 14, 2023, 11:50:19 pmYes,youdefinitely should stop selling non-fused low-current extension cords. They are already obviously illegal in pretty much everywhere else except North America and maybe a few developing third-world countries.Making it fused costs like $0.50 more; another options is rating it for high enough current. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume normal laymen would be calculating and respecting power ratings of extension cords, but as that youtuber points out, it kinda sorta works by irrational fear against extension cords in general.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 09:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 15, 2023, 10:39:30 amMore generally allowing an unfused cable between generic/consumer connectors that are expected/able to carry higher currents.Other examples that pop up periodically:mains -> IEC C13USB -> USB

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 10:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 15, 2023, 10:39:30 amRight, so that sounds like a more important issue than selling a piece of double sided tape.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 09:37:52 am
content: Some of the cheap US extension cords have another unsafe feature: many have just 2 wires, but one can still use a 3 pin plug with them. The case is just so small that the 3rd (ground) pin is outside the connector.The loose connectors have 2 problems: a add contact can run hot and be a fire hazzard and when half out the conductors are exposed. It is very uncommon to have isolation over the first few mm of the pins as it is with proper UK, Australia or 2 pin EU plugs.

author: Solomon_3055
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 02:19:34 pm
content: What if everyone gets a 3 phase CEE connector. I want to be able to charge my phone or operate a 20Kw halogen lamp from the same spot in my house

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 02:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 15, 2023, 10:34:21 pmYes, most definitely. But people are always eager to silence/ban people/things who/whichexposeseriously faulty practices/designs of others - e.g. by offering partially effective band-aids that underline the problems. I admit fixing the US plug/socket design is too big of a task (and as I have said earlier, Schuko here is notthat muchbetter); but requiring fusing of extension cords (at very least low-power variants which cannot be proved fire-proof when connected to an apparently common 20A breaker) within some transition period would be totally reasonable, as the cost to manufacturers is small and more safe extension cords would slowly replace the existing ones in circulation.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 03:51:08 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 16, 2023, 02:28:35 pmAs we had with sheathed mains pins, all new products from XXXX onward must have new cheap/simple safety feature. Easy.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 11:50:53 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on November 16, 2023, 09:37:52 amOn old ones, perhaps. Extension cords you buy today have little tabs molded onto them to prevent the insertion of grounded plugs into ungrounded extension cords.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 09:57:59 am
content: I personally have purchased illegal products from Amazon. Amazon is actively selling non-compliant products in Australia right under the noses of our "out-to-lunch" regulatory authority, the ACMA. It seems Amazon is too big to care, and the government is too weak to do anything about it.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 10:18:56 am
content: It's unlikely Amazon are selling the products. Most probably it is a foreign vendor using the Amazon marketplace to advertise, and you buy from them (clue: it ships from China) rather than Amazon. As such, you'd be the importer and therefore the one to blame. Not really any different to going on Aliexpress and buying illegal stuff, except Amazon are the payment processor.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 02:59:37 pm
content: Yeah but that’s the entire problem. Amazon doesn’t really want people to realize it’s not the vendor. It’s a very, um, “convenient” setup for them: offload the risk, pocket the transaction fees (and logistics fees, for FbA vendors).

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 03:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 19, 2023, 02:59:37 pmThis is why I avoid Amazon as much as possible. Why would I pay premium for a site which makes itlook likeI'm getting something from a western supplier, yet still get the exact same China stuff I can buy from Aliexpress honestly.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 04:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on November 19, 2023, 03:15:06 pmYep, same here, I rarely use Amazon anymore. And with Amazon’s search having been utterly ruined by this marketplace BS, even finding name-brand stuff is so time-consuming that it’s just not worth it. I’ll order from one of the Swiss online shops instead.