"800kV stun gun" - is it lethal? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: MasonM8
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 01:23:16 pm
content: Hi all, new to this community so please notify me if I have composed this incorrectly.In this video, the man mentions that this stun gun is not lethal. I have my doubts so I came here to check, I would like to build it for a hobby project.Also, I know it isn't 800kV, he has made this in parallel which means it is 400kV and double the amps... Whatever amperage these things pump out, if anyone knows that, that would be helpful too!Thank you!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 02:21:28 pm
content: That 800kV voltage is a BS, real voltage is an order of magnitude less. Also as a shocker this is a piece of shit. Watch to not get it put into your butthole if decide to use on some criminal. Only good for some visual effects.

author: MasonM8
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 02:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 24, 2016, 02:21:28 pmCheers so definitely not lethal? Awesome, I mean you have said it'll be a piece of shit for a shocker, but will it still pack much of a punch or not?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 02:29:02 pm
content: It will produce some pain, but the person very unlikely will be immobilized or pass out. So there is a big chance to get it put in the place I already said.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 05:12:12 pm
content: Quote from: MasonM8 on April 24, 2016, 02:24:30 pmMost likely not - there's no way to get the voltage through the core of the body. Mostly it will go through the 2cm strip of skin it touches.It'll probably cause a small burn if you do it long enough. That's it.Quote from: MasonM8 on April 24, 2016, 02:24:30 pm"Punch"?It'll make a scary noise, sure, but in a real fight it'll be about as much use as a BIC lighter.A gang-banger will just grab it from you and you'll end up withthemusing it on a sensitive part ofyourbody.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 10:49:57 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 24, 2016, 05:12:12 pmWhich is actually true about most (even commercially made) stunners like this. If you have to get so close as to be able totouchthe attacker with it, it is pretty much useless in most situations and outright dangerous (for you) in the worst case.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 10:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: MasonM8 on April 24, 2016, 01:23:16 pmDo not do this, they are a prohibited weapon in Australia and you need very specific paperwork to just posses such a device.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 10:56:05 pm
content: Quote from: MasonM8 on April 24, 2016, 02:24:30 pmWhy does it matter whether or not it is lethal? Do you want to actually kill someone?? That thing is bad even as a prank (and I seriously hope you aren't thinking about using it in that way).Even a stupid normally harmless toy could kill if you are unlucky enough and hit someone with a pre-existing medical condition just right. Or they fall and hit their head on the curb. Or they have a pacemaker which gets fried/disturbed. Or ...

author: MasonM8
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 11:47:27 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on April 24, 2016, 10:56:05 pmNo!! Completely wrong idea, I am making sure it isn't lethal so I do not hurt myself while making or anyone else. Not as a prank, it just looks very cool, as the another person said in this thread it would be nice effects, glad to know that's all it is now.

author: MasonM8
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 11:48:37 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on April 24, 2016, 10:52:34 pmOh damn, everything is bloody illegal here, no fun. Even if it is non-lethal?

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 12:10:33 am
content: Quote from: MasonM8 on April 24, 2016, 11:47:27 pmIf that's true, then there's no reason to make it in the form of a weapon, is there? You could put a clear cover over the spark gap, or make it a desktop instead of handheld device.

author: MasonM8
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 12:15:26 am
content: Quote from: Len on April 25, 2016, 12:10:33 amI don't understand what the issue is here, I came here to ask a question and now I am being accused of something? Lovely community. I am not here to make a weapon nor do I intend to hurt people, I saw this video and it looked cool, not my fault the VIDEO I linked the other PERSON created a HANDHELD device and it wasn't a desktop, sorry that his version was not to your liking, I sincerely apologize. I came here to clarify if the concept is lethal, what I do after that is my business and mine alone. Not sure why you are assuming so much.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:03:14 am
content: Ha. Those little Chinese high voltage modules do not put out the voltages they claim to.As for lethality, I would never use a stun gun except if I feared for my safety. Something like this may be non-lethal 99% of the time (numbers pulled out of my ass), but 1% of the time, it's used on someone who has a heart condition. Or someone has particularly bad luck and falls down and hits their head leading to some fatal injury, etc. When it comes to electric shock, there are no clear lines where you go from non-lethal to lethal, there's a large grey area between "safe to touch" and "you've designed an electric chair" where so many other factors affect the outcome.

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 03:48:53 am
content: The video shows the battery cells connected to the transformers but there is no electronics. Transformers work from AC but the batteries are DC.Maybe the "transformers" have an oscillator inside?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 08:02:20 am
content: Quote from: MasonM8 on April 25, 2016, 12:15:26 amBut nobody can answer that question because it is too broad, it makes no sense at all in this form. Itprobablyisn't lethalif you use the arrangement seen in the videoand touch both pins with a fingertip, but still could be because 1) nobody knows the exact specs of the thing, and 2) every person can react differently. Another arrangement like you holding a wire in each hand and powering the thing up while playing with it is however pretty likely to be potentially lethal.How much likely it is to be lethal will depend on how it's used. You didn't say how you intend to use it, so in order to try and answer your question they have to speculate what you'd use it for, hence the answers you got.Anyway nobody sensible would tell you "it isn't lethal" because they don't have the info to determine that, nor would they want to take the risk of you thinking you can start doing whatever stupid thing with it and end up killing yourself or someone else because "someone said it wasn't lethal".The only correct advice you can be given is "treat every gun as a loaded gun", i.e. assume it is lethal and take the appropriate precautions to never accidentally end in a situation where you'd have to rely on it not being lethal when playing with it, even less intentionally.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 09:01:01 am
content: Quote from: MasonM8 on April 25, 2016, 12:15:26 amYou'rethe one who asked if it "packs a punch".(If somebody asked you that, what would you assume?)

author: Gavin Melville
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 09:59:49 am
content: Like a real Taser the 800kV will collapse under load. Once the skin is breached a human is suprisingly conductive. At 20cm apart a taser output voltage is approx 600v, not 50kV. It's not the voltage that hurts, it's a very specific waveform that interferes with motor control nerves.The other issue you have to consider is that 800kV breaks over, give or take a bit, 40 inches in air. To put that simply the transformer terminals have to be 40 inches apart or the arc will start. You simply cannot have 800kV and a gap that short.In general these devices, and I have looked at these transformers up close, are way, way less than 800kV, perhaps more like 15-25 kV.I went back and looked at the video again, I'm guessing 20mm between pins, so at most 15kV. Once the arc initiates the impedance of the plasma is 70ish ohms for that length in air, so the transformer cannot sustain the arc. The arc either reforms once the transformer magnetics recover, or it waits for the next AC cycle.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 10:23:16 am
content: I had one of those crappy HV generator that I ordered alot of time ago, it died when I connected it to 6V while it said in the item description that it will work on 6V.I had some fun with ionizing some air and getting electrocuted by this before I connected to to 6V (I used 3.7 Lithium Battery from an old cellphone).I got electrocuted from 220V once, but this thing hurts even more..don't expect it to last long anyway, its a piece of shit, I would only use it to ignite fire \ oxy torch or something like that, or scare my friends from behind because its loud, very loud.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 10:50:14 am
content: Quote from: Gavin Melville on April 25, 2016, 09:59:49 amNope, 15 kV won't shoot through that distance. Should be around 40-50kV I guess.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on April 25, 2016, 10:23:16 amI'm guessing what you did is play, "Let's see how far the spark can jump". That usually kills them quickly.Why? The transformer inside those things builds up the voltage until it sparks. If you put the terminals too far apart it can't spark easily so the voltage will build up, and up, and up ... until the insulation breaks down internally and it dies.You have to separate the terminals by a couple of cm and no more. No playing "Let's see how far the spark can jump", mmmmkay?(Yes, I made an Arduino-driven percussion instrument using those)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 01:47:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 25, 2016, 10:50:14 amIt depends on the air. I'd say it was in between those two numbers.It certainly isn't 800kV though.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 03:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 25, 2016, 01:45:08 pmIt was like two years ago, I don't remember, but it worked great till I connected it to it to the max operation voltage, and then after a few sparks it died. I guess what you said did happen.ah well you wont trust those things from ebay anyway.

author: Gavin Melville
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 10:47:07 pm
content: It's actually 3 MV / metre, see this reference.http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/AliceHong.shtmlwhich is where Wikipedia got it's number from.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strengthThat works out to 75kV per inch, so RMS value of that peak -- approx 27kV per inch.The approximation I have always used is 25kV per inch. This is not the distance an arc will sustain once struck, it is the break-over distance.

author: MasonM8
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:28:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 25, 2016, 09:01:01 amWhere I come from that is an expression to ask if something is strong. Only reason I ask these things to make sure I don't hurt myself if I do accidentally shock myself, but most likely won't be making this now.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 06:21:09 am
content: Quote from: Someone on April 24, 2016, 10:52:34 pmHow did Australia EVER got rid of the English?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 08:15:08 am
content: Quote from: akis on April 26, 2016, 06:21:09 amI thought it was the English getting rid of the Australians...