OT: 2013 Australian Federal Election Rant - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 06:24:13 am
content: Dave rants about the 2013 Australian federal election this weekend, September 7th.It's all about the National Broadband Network, how bat shit crazy Tony Abbot's policies are, how the Senate might be the only hope for the future of the country, and how Wikileaks will throw a spanner in the works.Check your Senate voting preferences here:http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/gtv/

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 06:45:31 am
content: Don't know much about Ozzie politics Dave but you could not be more correct that we need to instill the fear of the populace in the government.For years it has been about playing the voters off each other to where people become so 'in the bag' for their chosen party that they literally get angry at the other party.A 3rd, 4th and 5th viable party is what we all need, so that each party can think intelligently about issues rather than just taking the opposite stance to the other party is on any given issue.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 07:16:38 am
content: Hi Dave,Nice speech. We here in Slovakia have a long (relatively) history of going for the lesser evil in the end, unfortunately, the last time the greater evil prevailed. And yeah, slowly not really good stuff is happening more often. And your comment on sheeple applies here as wellMind you - I don't know enough about Australian politics to judge who the lesser evil would be there.We're years/decades from anything like your National Broadband Network (neat idea).I agree with Corporate, that the government needs some serious fear of the general population - right now here we have corrupted bastards on so many layers of the government that it makes me sick. And what's being done (or rather what's NOT being done) will lead eventually (if something serious is not done) to a shitstorm of epic proportions.Good luck in Australia!QuoteIn the last elections here, 26 political parties were available, 6 made it into the parliament (got more than 5% of voters), one with 44%, the other five divided 36% preferences amongst them. We have the opposite problem - too many parties - in the end you'll still choose between a side that precisely addresses your specific set of opinions (but has less than, say, 1%) and a party that's broadly in your general set of opinions, but has an actual chance of getting to some power (say, 6%). The lesser evil.And that's not mentioning that a lot of the winning parties are the same kind of %&@*$#!, just with a different logo.David

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 07:34:50 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on September 05, 2013, 06:45:31 amThat's what go the liberal party into the mess it's in on the NBN.They couldn't say scrap it because they know everyone wants better internet. But they couldn't agree with current governments (technically perfect) FTTH solution, because, well, that's not good politics, so they were forced to come up with some stupid half arse policy of FTTN that costs almost as much.Rather than the sensible solution of, "we'll do the exact same NBN, but we'll manage the cost better" or something like that.

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 07:52:40 am
content: I count myself lucky - got the NBN 3 weeks ago.100/40But that was after 3 years of crappy copper over 4Km from an exchange 2.8mb down and 300k up on a good day. ( much less when it rained)This is a new-ish estate - but shitty old copper in the ground, all spare pairs faulty or worse that what I had - believe me I hounded Telstra who promised to fix it - nothing.Sorry but that what happens - the are a sharemarket listed company - only motive is max profitI am IT pro for a medical imaging practice and do lot of work at night It sucked as side from the speed I had constant VPN drop outs.The NBN is infrastructure for growth, this country dies on the vine without it. The one far sighted thing the US did was build freeways - infrastructure of the age of mass production. Most of the world is now an information/ service economy. An NBN is the infrastructure of today's world .

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 08:11:17 am
content: As an outsider, obviously infrastructure is very important for a countries development, education & business. How can any one get in their minds that 25Mbit anno 2013 is 'fast'? We have middle-sized internet ISP subscription here for like 10 years, and have been getting 20Mbit since2005.Upload however, was like 0.5Mbit though.However, in the Netherlands we have retarded politics as well. I guess I was repeating my self there, as politics carries the meaning of 'retarded' on it's own.Last dutch elections were marginally won by the Liberal party won and formed a cabinet with their greatest rival: The Labor Party.Jolly! So we now have worst of both worlds. Income leveling + gov budget cuts. Ministers constantly being corrected after a couple of days for their opinions, because they 'did not fit the cabinets statement'Moreover, what's equivalent to 'a sensate' consists greatly of parties that are in the opposition. Result: constant party hugging from the cabinet with opposition parties. "Would you please vote yessss?"Some column writers say that Belgium is better of than Netherlands, although it had no 'active' government for over a year. In the netherlands we seem to do everything opposite of good. If we need to invest in the economy, we cut gov budget. If we need to invest in education, we will cut into bursary of all students. Etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 09:21:00 am
content: I find it funny the Wikileaks party retweeted my video, but it's now been removed. I guess someone higher up didn't want to be associated with my rant

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 10:12:29 am
content: Ok, WTF, my election rant video I uploaded 4 hours ago is now the #1 search result on Youtube (out of 3,810,000 results) for the search term "election".Wow

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 10:21:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 05, 2013, 10:12:29 amhere's hoping it sinks in. couple of hours ago Libs announced an internet filter policy - a few minutes ago Turnbull said it was a mistake. Didn't Abbott actually say last election he'd do anything but sell his arse to get in ? hmmm For sale signs up everywhere

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 10:33:57 am
content: here is to hoping it hits no.1, then you'll really be needing all that extra bandwidthgreat work dave

author: vk3yedotcom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 11:31:12 am
content: As for the Senate, if you don't like the preferences of any party, vote below the line numbering every box.http://belowtheline.org.auexplains it - note the ballot editor feature

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 05, 2013, 10:12:29 amIt's a sign. You should go into politics.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:23:09 pm
content: hahaha, replacing old copper with new copper. That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.They installed fiber to the cabinet then used VDSL2 over old copper for the last 100m in NZ as a temporary fix a few years back.Replacing the last 100m with fiber to the home is going to take a long time but at least they have started.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on September 05, 2013, 12:23:09 pmIt will be 2050 before I see any fiber to my house, I live in the country, I could stack dead bodies in the front lawn and nobody would notice for weeks.

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:42:00 pm
content: I have found simple solution for not having fast enough internet, that is moving where I can get fast internet. If phone/internet company has already ran fibre and the house has modern wiring, it is just simple plug and play. I could pay more or less in rent (depends how you look at it) for some place which only has ADSL2+ capability or sometimes not even that. I know this not an option for everyone because of <insert excuse here>, but for everyone else it might be worth it, if you want it really bad.It's always the same thing when people are promised new things, talk is cheap. Atleast people get their hope, some people wait for the second coming of Jesus Christ, others wait for their fast internets.I still remember that crappy adsl at the end of 5km line, on the good days speeds were 4Mbit down and the line was stable. On the bad days, which was half of the year, it was dropping consistently because water was getting into connections. I remember getting my courage together and calling the internet provider, they just said that nothing can be done.

author: ondreji
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 05, 2013, 07:16:38 amI was shocked when I arrived to Sydney five years ago -- $50 per month for slow (several mbits) and data limited (like 20GB/50G peak / off peak) ADSL. Back home, in Slovakia, I had 100mbit or 1gbps at home or work respectively (both 1:50 aggregation). Anyway, Slovakia is always in top 10:http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-blog/2012-04-19-whos-fastest-google-measures-web-speeds-around-the-world/

author: Crazy Ape
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 07:06:18 pm
content: KRudd is a UN puppet and Abbot is a fool.Great range of choice there.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 09:27:41 pm
content: Few things dave didn't mention.FTTN draws more power, each node eats up a new set of SLA batteries every 3 years (heat kills them), the nodes don't like flood water*.The copper solution is going to cost more the maintain, up the 10 times more, even the current $1 billion a year maintenance budget doesn't keep up.By comparison FTTH only uses electronics in the home and the exchange, the much smaller cabinets (bar fridge size) contain patch cables and don't even need cooling fans.Abbott's so called solution is the most insidious form of government waste, specifying an out of date solution that isn't practical in the real world, when spending a few dollars more would be cheaper for everyone in the long run. Most the phone technicians and engineers want FTTH, the remainder like the Liberal plan as they will make more money fixing up all the scrap that passes for the current cables.* see Telstra's own queensland flood photo collection for flooded or near flooded nodes (aka CMUX)http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstra-corp/sets/72157625841011142/

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 09:31:51 pm
content: This is what happens when accountants who read a white paper and then google for 30 minutes for information then make decisions

author: vk2dob
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 12:52:08 am
content: Dave,thank you for speaking out and standing up for a future not returning to the past.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 12:53:34 am
content: Quote from: ondreji on September 05, 2013, 12:52:07 pmHuh. I'd feel right at home with that.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 01:22:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 05, 2013, 10:12:29 amLets hope it gets picked up by main stream media and played on telly... Although highly unlikely. Make you wonder if somebody at google (vested interest?) shot it to the top

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 01:44:34 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on September 06, 2013, 01:22:48 amNope, it's just the ridiculously complicated youtube algorithm doing it's thing.It knows elections are topical news, so ranks recent ones higher.It knows my channel is reputable and long standing and producing frequent content, so ranks it higher.It knows my video has been getting X hits/minute consistently for the last X hours, and X comments/minute so ranks it higher as being more "popular".Plus lots of other magic secret sauce.It all adds up to my video becoming #1This actually happens all the time with my videos, but in this case I was rather surprised because of the incredibly generic search term and that there is so much other recent content out there.It's now at #6 for "election" though.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 02:07:25 am
content: I feel so helpless in seeing these events unfold and not a thing I can do about it and as such I want to sincerely thank you for that videoI just don't understand this policy as it goes against their mantra of building a stronger economy and the main stream media not doing their job and picking them up on it.The level of infuriation in this matter has risen to a point where I can no longer watch the news without getting indigestion

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 02:33:40 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on September 06, 2013, 02:07:25 amYep, we have just one vote and one voice, including the shepple.Resigned to that fate, I'd feel better if Abbott had at least one or two worthwhile policies, at least something that would make me feel like the next 3 years won't be all downhill. But I haven't found a single glimmer of hope yet...I seriously can't understand why anyone would vote for him apart from the "I'm sick of labour" vote.This says it all really:http://dontbeafuckingidiot.com/

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 03:19:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 06, 2013, 02:33:40 amThis is the thing I don't get. Why hasn't labour and anyone else, for that matter, pointed out the we have not had a true labour government for the past three years. The people elected a hung parliament which was held together by support from minor parties. As such claims of broken promises and lies are unfounded. Its like being upset with an elected member of the opposing party for policies being brought in by the ruling party and then calling that opposition member a liar and breaking promises because he/she was electedQuoteThis pdf on that web sitehttp://dontbeafuckingidiot.com/MediaStatement.pdfIf the guy isn't making the harassment up it should be front page news... Here are the liberals espousing the virtues of freedom of speech with regards to inflammatory coverage of the labour campaign, whilst in the background they have their minions working hard to supress true freedom of speech. To suggest that web page would be torn down if names, addresses and phone numbers were not given up is astonishing and seems to me to indicate what we have to look forward to

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 03:47:42 am
content: But then again,it's only 3 years!At the present rate of rollout,nothing much will happen anyway.On a related vein,I've wanted to put the following out somewhere:What Kevin Rudd won't do if he wins the Election:-Hewon'tappoint himself Prime Minister for life.Hewon'tsend people who oppose him to the Gulags.Hewon't"stop the boats".What Tony Abbott won't do if he wins the Election:-Hewon'tappoint himself Prime Minister for life.Hewon'tsend people who oppose him to the Gulags.Hewon't"stop the boats".On balance,we are better off than many countries.What if Clive Palmer holds the balance of power in the Senate,or Pauline Hanson?

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 04:03:27 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 06, 2013, 03:47:42 amI swear I heard something along those lines when Howard got in

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 04:12:19 am
content: I'm actually more concerned about us committing to yet another war in the middle east... Though it's quite clear that the outcome of this election isn't going to make any difference there.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 05:40:49 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on September 06, 2013, 04:03:27 amOr Bob Menzies!

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 06:12:31 am
content: Governments world wide are such a mess today and the problem won't be solved until people stop thinking about today and start thinking about the future.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 08:29:21 am
content: Only25Mbps? I'd kill for 25Mbps.

author: Crazy Ape
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 09:12:48 am
content: Quote from: Harvs on September 06, 2013, 04:12:19 amAlready committed as far a Syria is concerned I'm afraidAUSTRALIA will stand alongside the United States on military strikes on Syria with Australian spies now confirming the Syrian regime?s use of chemical weapons on civilians.http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/australian-spies-confirmed-chemical-use-on-civilians-by-syrian-regime/story-fnihslxi-1226712499077

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 11:59:51 am
content: From here in NZ the coverage of the AU elections has basically been comprised of "unfortunately Kev doesn't have a chance, but eh, Abbot's got a wife from Wainuiomata, so perhaps hell will freeze over and our expats over there will get a fair go".Unfortunately it appears to me, and did right from the get go, that Gillard held on too long, for Kevin Rudd to have pulled Labor up to an election winning form in such a ridiculously short period of time was always going to be a feat not short of miraculous.If he'd rolled her successfully a year ago they could have pulled things together to present a better (in the terms of the public, more stable) option than Abbot, but a couple months - impossible, the unwashed masses must still see Labor as a powder-keg of instability, at least subconsciously; they've gone from "party in a shambles, no confidence, replace the pm" straight into "hey, vote for us again".Unfortunately for Kevin Rudd, I think his... self confidence... has been his personal undoing, what he should have done was sit on his hands and left Julia Gillard to lose this election, then when she did, "you have failed, I'll take the job of leading the opposition" and spend the next few years rebuilding credability.As it is now, if (when?) they lose, I can't see him keeping the leadership through to the next election.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 01:02:26 pm
content: Two things.Quote from: sleemanj on September 06, 2013, 11:59:51 amHe would never go back to being an opp leader after being a PM. It's just not done here. Once you've held the high office, you don't have to do anything since we keep our PM's on good pay forever.QuoteLooks like he will lose his seat to a very aggressive candidate so the whole thing ends tomorrow. Bye bye Rudd. Nice knowing ya.

author: ondreji
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 01:03:01 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on September 06, 2013, 08:29:21 amyeah, down here, 25mbps is just to the closets DMUX then all bets are off

author: rizzy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 02:48:23 pm
content: Dave, what your country really needs (and mine maybe even more) are politicians that have more knowledge about technology and don't get fooled by lobbyists.Here are just a few examples of government driven projects in Germany:In the early 90s in the former GDR fibre was brought to almost every house but due to the lack of technology or its price, it could not be used. Later on they did not even get ISDN or DSL because the remaining copper lines still laying in the streets were too bad. What a fail...Few years ago, I think it was 2008 the federal government promised to bring broad band internet (it was defined as 10MBit+ AFAIR) to every home (95%+). So they forced the big telcos by forbidding them to expand their broadband connections in the cities unless 95% were covered by 10MBit+. I was having 1Mbit in a small town and could be lucky because others had only 384Kbit and I thought "Yeah! I'm getting a faster connection." I don't know if our politicians were just too stupid - it definitely can't be because of a lack of lawyers in politics - but they did not include the word "flatrate" in their law. So in the end the "smart" telcos brought "broadband" by just upgrading their cell towers in smaller towns and countryside regions to LTE. So right now you can get LTE with up to 100Mbits in almost every village while you do not get it in bigger towns. Isn't that beautiful? No politician and certainly not the telcos mind that there is no flatrate and 30GB/month cost 80€ while 30GB is the most you can get.Two years ago in my home town in the middle of nowhere in the west of Germany, the local government started a project with surrounding towns to bring broadband internet (25Mbit+) to every home. They did not define by what technology and just wanted to make a tender. Just a few weeks after they started the project the Deutsche Telekom, our ex state owned telco, announced that they had a new technology, called vectoring that would allow much higher bandwidth (100Mbit+) with the existing copper infrastructure and so the project was scrubbed.Vectoring is a technology that lowers the cross talk by regarding the whole wiring harness. The only problem is that at least in bigger towns and cities this harness is not owned by one company alone because in addition to the Deutsche Telekom other companys have their distribution boards in those white boxes and the Telekom is forced to rent their infrastructure to their competitors. In smaller towns and villages that is usually not the case because the competitors are not interested in installing extra distribution hardware for so few customers. The problem is that the Deutsche Telekom says they would need to take back the control over the whole harness to implement vectoring while the competitors of course do not want that at all because they fear that the Deutsche Telekom becomes a monopolist again. So what happens? Nothing. Vectoring could be at least implemented in those small towns but it will not until they have found a compromise for the whole country. What a bummer...Right now I really must not complain because I just moved to a bigger town and I've got 100Mbit via cable for 25€ and I could even get 150Mbit. But if I visit my parents at home there is no such thing like full-HD youtube videos unless I wait for hours and it makes me angry not to be able to watch even 480p without lagging. In the future I will definitely not move anywhere where I can not get a proper broadband connection (whatever it will be like then) and I think that owners who let their houses or appartments will think about it, when young people ask for the speed of the internet and then say:"I really love the appartment but 1Mbit is definitely too slow." In the future having a slow internet connection will be like having a non-paved road to your home nowadays. Not always impossible but never really comfortable.In my opinion the problem with slow internet connections will go on in every country until the politicians have realiced that the internet istheinfrastructure of the 21st century like electricity had been in the late 19th and early 20th century. In Europe the baltic states show that there is a huge return on invest. Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have the fastest average speed and the highest coverage of broadband connections in europe and so it's no wonder that for example Skype was founded by Estonians.Although being interested in politics I have to admit I did not even know the name of one australian politician (I only knew who is the de facto head of state) but I wish for your country to get smart politicians after the election who know what they're doing and doing it right.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 04:56:04 pm
content: My father gets less than 2Mbps although he does live reasonably in the country.My brother get about 4Mbps - he lives in this small little tiny place called London.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 05:39:34 pm
content: There are two major problems with democracy, the first is that the people making the decisions on who should win aren't knowledgeable enough to make those decisions and the second is that the skills required to get elected are completely different from the skills required to do the job.Now that democracy is so mature, we've run into a third issue of career politicians and until we ban people that want to be politicians from being politicians we're going to suffer.

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 07:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on September 06, 2013, 08:29:21 amAre you crappin me!! 25 Mbs is way beyond the reach of most consumers in the UK? I am surprised.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 07:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: Dread on September 06, 2013, 07:25:56 pmYou can get those speeds if you have cable or splash out for optical fiber. The majority of the UK is based on copper and very old copper at that. I get about 18Mbps and I don't know anyone on copper that gets close. As I said earlier, by my brother lives in London and gets 4Mbps if luck. As he lives in flats, they won't do fiber or cable broadband to his flat

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 08:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on September 05, 2013, 09:27:41 pmThe technology mostly used for FTTH is PON (seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_networkfor more details). And talking about water there's a surprising problem with glass fiber, it's not water proof. Yes, that's right! Over time the glass would resorb some water and change it's optical characteristics. First the transmission performance is degraded and then the fiber becomes unusable.

author: stormbr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 10:50:22 pm
content: i belive in the anarcho-capitalism and liberalism, the death of state this is the solution - imho, but how the peoples will to do it is other problem (big problem).I live in a socialism/comunism country that follow the cuban method, i'm really scared with the brazilian government and the politics not represent the peoples.Really bad situation in my country and tomorrow have a protest (fight against the police).bandwidth in socialism country3g (not have 4g) = 100 kbps lol - represent 50% of connectionsinternet spot in rich places = up to 30 Mbps - represent 15% of connectionsinternet spot in poor places = 1 mbps up to 10 Mbps - represent 25% of connections10% not have internet, for example amazonia jungle.import taxes in socialism country = 78%note: nothing is made/development in my country, all is imported.I would be very happy if i can live with my family and friends on the liberal country.singapurehong-kongaustraliachileswedencanadausaetc

author: qpit3a
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 12:46:24 am
content: Interesting to read the policy documenthttp://goo.gl/8jfsUz, doesn't really sound bat shit crazy. For instance they do admit that FTTP is the best but FTTN is probably going to suit most people. It'd be interesting to get some stats eg: how many people will use the NBN to steal movies faster vs upload content. Personally i'd be happy with 10Mbit symmetric consistently (we do have 10 Mbit today I just checked).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 01:03:25 am
content: Quote from: rizzy on September 06, 2013, 02:48:23 pmThe problem is most politicans are just that, career polticians. They studied law or political science or some such thing.The real practical world doesn't exist for them.What pisses me off is that minsters get appointed who know nothing about their porfolio. So the police minster has never been a cop, the education minster has never been a teacher, the science minister has no science or engineering background etc.Their are rare exceptions like having Peter Garret minster for arts and the environment.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 03:03:45 am
content: Quote from: stormbr on September 06, 2013, 10:50:22 pmYou make aircraft--I just flew to Carnarvon & back in Embraer Brasilia aircraft,a distance of just under 2000km for the round trip.There are lots of these planes in Australia,USA,etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 04:02:45 am
content: Quote from: qpit3a on September 07, 2013, 12:46:24 amUnless you actually take it in context. This is one of the biggest basic infrastructure projects in Australia's history, that will cost an absolute fortune by any measure (for either plan), and define our communications future in ways we haven't even thought of yet. When you look at the big picture like that, there is absolutely no valid argument for penny pinching and technical compromises. You do it once, you do it right.

author: qpit3a
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 05:10:24 am
content: I think they should have rolled out Wimax (due to Australia being so large and sparsely populated). Given up on laying cable, that seems to be old tech even if fiber.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 06:22:34 am
content: Quote from: Neilm on September 06, 2013, 07:48:48 pmI'm on copper and can get 63/17Mbps.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 06:53:27 am
content: I'm also on copper and get 40Mbit / 10Mbit. (VDSL2 cabinet at the bottom of the road which someone recently took too with a spray can).

author: qpit3a
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 07:14:23 am
content: I may have been a bit flippant but:Is FTTN a half arse solution - it leaves the market to allow people to get fibre if they can afford it and want it. Fibre still exists. And greenfields get it anyway. So it is not a different direction, it doesn't seem to preclude at some later date FTTP ie you would have to replace any of the new infrastructure.From my quick read the NBN is not symmetricThe coalition plan can get 25mb over copper.There may be errors of fact in the coalition policy (who knows if they are trying to be tricky) all I was saying was that it isn't insane. The main difference between the parties seems to be a difference of opinion about who should pay. Which is kind of what you'd expect.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 11:12:00 am
content: According to my Belgian news radio here you'll get copper wire into your house. Abbott seems to have an unbridgeable lead in the vote counts now.

author: ChloeRed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 12:14:12 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 07, 2013, 06:22:34 amYeah, and here in the UK, if you are in the areas with FTTC/VDSL2 rolled out, you can have upto 80/20 over copper. But the rest of us are on ADSL2+ if there's no cable.That's sold as "upto" 18mbps. So 25mbps is a dream.I'm on business adsl2+ (13/1) and Business cable (10/.768).If I pay VMB £69 instead of £49 for the business cable, I can go from 10/768 + 1IP to 50/5 with some IPs.Waiting for FTTC to go in, they have started to fit the cabs in this area, but the time between the physical cabs going in, and being able to get service from them can be upto 8 months. BTopenreach will fit a cab, then find that the ducting has collapsed when they try to blow the fibre to it. If there's not meny people on the cab, they'll just not upgrade it.One client was in this position, they only got FTTC when someone stole the phone cables and BT had to relay the ducting, so they put the fibre in at the same time. If the cable hadn't been stolen, they wouldn't have bothered to wire in and equip the cab.Had another client just order FTTC at home, because they have just added the dslam to the cabinet. Estimated VDSL2 speed: 25/5.ADSL2+ speed atm? 160kbps/320kbps (yes, that's the right way around, 160kbps _down_).Most of the this area is on really long lines. And there's not enough people to make it worthwhile putting the FTTC equipment in.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 12:25:15 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on September 07, 2013, 11:12:00 amJust read about it, Abbot got 2/3 of the seats. We'll have the same fun, i.e. election of the government, in two weeks. It's also choosing the lesser evil :-( And in Hessen (a federal state) we elect a new state parliament additionally.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 02:28:52 pm
content: Uh-oh. Doesthismean you are now officially boned?

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 02:51:38 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on September 07, 2013, 02:28:52 pmYep... That's it, I'm going to start my own data carrier using pigeons. They should be able to carry a usb stick and as such I should be able to offer 128Mb per bird. That's 128Mbpb for the marketing department and I'm sure all the neo-luddites that have missed a golden opportunity will lap it up

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 03:11:07 pm
content: Sounds like a plan!Only drawback is that packet drop can get fairly nasty.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 03:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on September 07, 2013, 02:28:52 pmFrom the articleQuoteExcuse me while I vomit - twice.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 04:35:24 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on September 07, 2013, 03:35:20 pmThe Sun, Murdoch's biggest selling British paper, has backed the winner in the UK elections for as long as I can remember, certainly since Maggie's second term of office in 1983. Whether that is because they have so much influence, or because they prefer to ride the horse most likely to win is open to debate.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 04:57:55 pm
content: Cut spending, reduce deficit, lower taxes. That would probably get my vote. Nbn..Luxury! My apartment is in cahoots with a satellite company who is our only choice for dsl and it seems to be capped where you pay to go over. So I'm still holding on to my Wimax box where I pay for about 10 Mbps and get a lot less due to signal. But there is no cap.Anyway my opinion is the best thing a government can do is stay out of your lives. Personally, financially, etc. If you have to see your government official on TV is probably because they want to do something you won't like.If helping the needy important to you then get off your ass and help them. Never trust the government to do a good job at anything.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 05:07:13 pm
content: Somewhat related (Any resemblance to real persons, living or douchebaggy, are purely coincidental):

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 05:33:12 pm
content: This is interesting news.http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/libertarian-elected-australian-senate-classical-liberal-movement-rise/#.UitfOmTXQyE

author: stormbr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 06:19:06 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 07, 2013, 03:03:45 amThis is not true, all eletronic systems (avionic) and turbines/engines are imported.The intellectual merit is not brazilian, i have many friends engineers working into embraer.Congratulations to Australia that agreed with liberalism, this is the future, lean state/government and freedom economy.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 11:13:03 pm
content: Haha,In south America Liberalism means the opposite of what Liberalism means in North America.In the USA liberalism = big government, big taxes, big brother, take from the rich give to the poor.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 11:55:56 pm
content: In Australia, Liberal and Labor aren't really that far apart in policies. (as much as they beat each other around) There's not the massive difference like I've head from many other countries. So we may complain that the incoming guys are going to destroy the country, but in reality it doesn't pan out that way. So many other (external) factors come into play as well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 12:09:08 am
content: And the first cab off the rank in a downward spiral for this country, NICTA lose $42M in funding.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/coalition-to-slash-funding-for-top-tech-institute-nicta/4941838

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 01:23:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 08, 2013, 12:09:08 amFirst two sentences from the article...QuoteHasn't helped my vision much.QuoteNot in the Samsung GSIII. I have to reboot every time I need it to take me somewhere.Nar, these things are just a drinking club.

author: stormbr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 03:35:20 am
content: Quote from: casinada on September 07, 2013, 11:13:03 pmThe USA is a semi-liberal country and even with some problems yet is a good place to live, can't compare with brazil.In usa have efficient laws, army force equiped, freedom economy, decent schools, investment r&d, california, etc ..In brazil not have california, investment r&d, good schools and freedom economy, in south america just have one liberal country that call the Chile (good place too).The meaning of liberalism is the same in any part of world.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 05:17:59 am
content: Quote from: stormbr on September 08, 2013, 03:35:20 amMmm, nope, not really. Simply describing a party (or person) as "liberal" does not convey anywhere near enough information in a global sense to determine their policies.Does it mean socially liberal, "all drugs should be legal".Does it mean economically liberal, "free market, make as much money as you can, low taxes, pay for all services yourself".Does it mean both.Does it mean neither.Does it mean a bit of this and a bit of that, and if so, which bits and how much.You see that just saying "I'm a liberal" means very little outside of the context of the political landscape in which that statement is made.Some broad comparison can be made, for example Australia's Labor party can be comparable to the US Democratic Party, and their Liberals (or "the Coalition") can be comparable the US Republican Party, but even at that, the comparison is VERY loose.It can probably be said that in most countries these days, the trend is towards centrist parties in all regards, naturally of course, a party which wants to achieve and retain power must by definition have wide appeal, as our societies have become far more diverse the need for parties to "pick and choose" policies to make come up with a reasonable compromise has become much greater.Proportional representation can alleviate this at the party level somewhat with coalitions of more focused parties working together to form a government (as we usually have here in NZ with MMP), but the end result is the same, a government which is relatively centrist.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 05:35:29 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on September 08, 2013, 01:23:21 amCongrats, most ridiculous comment of the week awardI can't believe someone on this forum would think that spending money on basic technology research is a bad idea.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 06:06:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 08, 2013, 05:35:29 amBut that's unfortunately going to be the attitude of the razor gang that will answer to those who have been elected to find and eliminate waste. The researchers were asked to show something for their work so far and all they said was we need more time. And that was my point. Not much.If you were placed in a similar position to critically evaluate the sheer cost expenditure you'd be lying if you couldn't find anything to shave. Or corrupt.And further, some good kit will go on the auction market and some nut with an itch to scratch will buy it and maybe continue the work, perhaps with a little more motivation than those fed by an open check book.Nar, they've had it good for a while and they will have it good again. In the meantime they can tighten the belt and work out how to pull something out of their arses with less. Because that is how the best discoveries are made anyhow if we're honest about it.

author: stormbr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 06:17:44 am
content: @sleemanjI belive in the anarcho-capitalism (extreme liberalism, extinction of state and 100% economy and personal freedom), i know that's extreme think that, but i agreed too that a policy view centered is a good choice.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 07:02:44 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on September 08, 2013, 06:06:04 amThe ciiiiircle of liiiiife!

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 07:55:37 am
content: For those annoyed by Rupert Murdock's campaign:http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/complaint-against-news-corp-australia.html?fb_action_ids=10151910973465955&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151910973465955%22%3A211851695605443%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151910973465955%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D-kizzap

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 08:06:46 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on September 08, 2013, 06:06:04 amI'm not dumb or short sighted enough to know that a technology think tank like NICTA shold live or die by short terms goals.QuoteDitto my above comment. Someone like NICTA (or the CSIRO, or the ABC et.al that they also want to slash) would be the last on my slash'n'burn list.Top of my list would be shit like churches not paying any taxes for example.We don't have many such organisations in this country, and they are vital to keeping our foot in the door in global technology development.When you take money away from them, it just leads to less opportunities for employment of talented people with ideas, who will likely just piss off overseas. That list in this country is unfortunately long and distinguished.QuoteAlmost certainly won't be the case.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 08:11:03 am
content: What was the results?Number of voters? Number of abstention?Alexander.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 08:16:51 am
content: Quote from: firewalker on September 08, 2013, 08:11:03 amAll the details can be found here -Australian Electoral Commission.Final vote counting won't be finished for a while.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 12:55:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 08, 2013, 08:06:46 amYou could have voted for this mob then:http://www.secular.org.au/I went into the polling booth really having no idea which bunch of bunyips to pick. I was seriously considering resorting to a "dick and balls" donkey vote, but then I saw the box next to "Secular Party of Australia" and figured they'll do! ; hadn't known of their existence until then.EDIT:"For major parties, our Senate preferences are going to the Greens, then ALP, then LNP."Oh, crap! I just ended up voting for the bloody Greens in the end. I should have just scribbled the dick and balls.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 01:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: GK on September 08, 2013, 12:55:19 pmYeah, but I thought Wikileaks was more important, both locally and globally. But they lost

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 01:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 08, 2013, 01:04:34 pmAssange? No loss there!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 01:22:18 pm
content: Quote from: GK on September 08, 2013, 01:06:37 pmYes, it is a huge loss.The election of Wikileaks into the Senate would have sent political shock waves around the world, and they planned on giving all senators secure USB keys and a mechanism to anonymously leak important information if they deemed it was in the publics best interest to know it. That would have changed the game of politics a lot.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 01:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 08, 2013, 01:22:18 pmThat is a policy right from the loonie bin, ripe for all sorts of abuse, at the discretion of any dingbat in the Senate!Again:That's all I'm going to say.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 02:41:36 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 07, 2013, 05:33:12 pm"The likely new senator plans to form a "loose but powerful" coalition with other fringe parties who performed well, such as theSex Party, Sports Party and the Marriage Equality Party"Quote from News.com.au

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 06:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 08, 2013, 02:41:36 pmI justhadto go check whether that was an exact quote.Well, I'll bedurn'ed...

author: PeteInTexas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 07:55:26 pm
content: The only thing I want to add for the world wide audience is to demand symmetric speed/bandwidth for upload and download. Don't get "bribed" into settling for a fantastic download speed/bandwidth.The reason is a crippled upload speed allows the media titans (increasingly in bed with ISP's) to essentially control the available content on the internet. Its simply supply and demand. There is of course voracious demand for internet content and supply is currently satisfied, in enormous parts, by "amateur" content.Content uploaded by non-media titan folks (like our dear Dave) account for hundreds upon hundreds of hours where the media titans are not making money on. By choking off "amateur" content through upload speed/bandwidth, content appetite will have satisfied by that provided by media titans, which you can bet, will not be free.So the long term strategy for media/ISP titans is clear: have public funds build the network with asymmetric speed/bandwidth to choke off competing "amateur" content through crippled upload speeds but with fantastic download speed/bandwidth to push their content through.Its genius. But don't fall for it. If public funds are to be used to build out internet networks, the public needs to make sure they get their money's worth with symmetric networks speed/bandwidth.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 09:17:57 pm
content: Quote from: PeteInTexas on September 08, 2013, 07:55:26 pmThe unsymmetrical bandwidth is based on the technology used and the usage pattern of the average user. Since upstream and downstream share the bandwidth of the copper wire you got two possibilies. Set upstream and downstream to the same bandwidth (symmetric, mostly just business DSL) or look at the usage statistics which show that the average user downloads much more than he uploads (asymmetric, customer mass market). So the industry optimized DSL standards and chipsets for asymmetric DSL. For the utilization of a network backbone asymmetric bandwidth usage is actually not desirable because all backbone lines are symmetric.BTW: YouTube is limiting the upload bandwidth, so a symmetric DSL wouldn't help.

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 12:57:26 am
content: Quote from: PeteInTexas on September 08, 2013, 07:55:26 pmYou honestly believe that Rupert Murdock doesn't have some form of control over advertising, and thatallthe income from advertising on Youtube goes to the content creator/Youtube itself?-kizzap

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 03:56:25 am
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on September 08, 2013, 06:57:19 pmThe "balance of power" thing is a two-edged sword.If the big Parties agree on something,they can,& will gang up on you,& your "loose but powerful coalition" won't do you one bit of good.On the upside.becoming an Australian Senator is one of the best scams going--you only need to stay in for two terms & you can retire with all sorts of "perks".Many don't make the two years,though.We have a long history of "one term" Senators standing on all sorts of "Batshit-crazy" platforms,who sink like a stone come the next election.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 04:04:09 am
content: OK, this off topic - off topic. I was just channelling GK's pain at the general asshattery and douchebaggery of his elections and not having a viable candidate to vote for so may I suggest a compensatory reflex that I resort to in such occasions?Schadenfreudemy friend, I just imagine I am Russian for a moment, then everything else in life seems better.Quote from: GK on September 08, 2013, 12:55:19 pmFor example apropos of your dick and balls ballot artistry Vlad Putin was recently visiting an Art school where he instructed the students in the technique of drawing a cat from behind. I was surprised to see he was wearing a shirt and taking time out from looting the nation and poking the eyes out of the opposition to engage in sharing with young people.Putin draws cat from behind:http://youtu.be/afe2Tzv7EyQ

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 05:02:04 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on September 09, 2013, 04:04:09 amHe is known for "taking out time" for such propaganda events. I.e. he or his yes-men plan and stage such things regularly to improve his image. Politicians around the world do it, too. Putin is just going a bit more over the edge. Piloting a mini submarine and all that. Or when his former judo trainer died he arranged for a picture and TV footage that went around the world. He lonely walking along a road after the funeral. State TV present, busy road closed and empty, security just staying out of the camera view.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 01:17:45 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on September 09, 2013, 04:04:09 amPerhaps considering the recent crackdown on homosexual rights activism the Kremlin advised him to abstain from any further shirt-off homoerotic photo ops (seriously, how many women are turned on by fishing?). He doesn't seem to be a very good artist unfortunately.The crucifix necklace is a nice touch.....http://ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=787&Itemid=214http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2008/11/fidel_gets_religion.htmlhttp://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/why-a-conservative-evangelical-took-a-shine-to-vladimir-putin/?_r=0......... despots, bigots and the overtly, fervently pious - the world over they're basically one and the same thing. The only difference is some have a greater reach with their claws than others.

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2013, 09:27:50 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 08, 2013, 01:22:18 pmYour Kidding me !!!No wonder they lost so badly. Any politician with an Axe to grind would just take down the whole senate and possibly the country if they felt like doing it.Crazy stuff...

author: kcozens
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 06:24:06 am
content: Quote from: Psi on September 07, 2013, 06:53:27 amAs I read the comment about someone taking a spray can to the cabinet I had visions of the typical graffiti one sees. I was pleasantly surprised to see a fairly decent piece of art. Any idea what animal is in the space suit?

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 07:22:39 am
content: Quote from: kcozens on September 13, 2013, 06:24:06 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlothHe is famous in some parts of the internets.https://www.google.fi/search?q=sloth+meme&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X(NSFW) for some reason safesearch didn't do much