USB 3.0 Embedded Micro? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:20:32 pm
content: for a personal project USB 2.0 is just not fast enough for me so im wondering if there are any USB 3.0 device enabled micros (preferably an ARM with > 100mhz clocks) ... it only needs to send the packets in quick bursts at a just above 2.0 speedi cant find any and i REALLY dont want to switch my micro to an FPGA because this is a personal project and the last thing i want to do is the crapshoot that is home BGA soldering XPnot to mention having to convert my code from ARM C to FPGA C and have to find one that works with my knowledge of FPGAS and all the fun s**ti got the PCB part of USB 3.0 down and i have used 3.0 in the past thats not what im asking!im looking for a non-BGA usb 3.0 controller or micro!

author: jmole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:25:18 pm
content: Cypress FX3

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: jmole on May 02, 2013, 11:25:18 pmany not in a BGA esk package?

author: jmole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:35:11 pm
content: If you can layout a board to USB 3.0 specs, you should be able to solder a BGA (or use a mfg who can)

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:10:50 am
content: One does not simply USB 3.0BGA is really the least of your problems to worry about. Trust me

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:22:39 am
content: Quote from: marshallh on May 03, 2013, 12:10:50 amPrecisely. The data rate is 4.8 Gb/s. Try to build a 4.8 GHzoscillator(just a useless oscillator) and you'll understand the problem.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:23:41 am
content: No i can design and layout a 3.0 low speed spec board ... again i do not need anything close to the full speed i only need enough for the packets i need to sendmy problem is not designing a 750Mbps capable PCB it is home soldering a BGA packagei know they exist in non-BGA packages i have seen them before im just asking if anyone has seen one that they can link me to

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:25:13 am
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on May 03, 2013, 12:23:41 amProblem solved. Not really that hard.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:27:25 am
content: No. they dont exist. I'd love to help but you havent told us anything about your application or what you want to accomplish.You can get 20mbyte/sec through a FT2232H i synchronous fifo mode. This is USB2.0 HS.BTW, USB 3.0 is a superset - it literally is just two extra diff pairs tacked onto existing USB 2.0 stuff. As such, it includes all 2.0 protocol and requirements.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:28:25 am
content: By the way - if you just need quick bursts, why not buffer it and then transmit at a slower rate?

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:36:59 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 03, 2013, 12:25:13 amwith a Fine ball grid aray package? i have trouble getting the alignment right in a normal BGA package enough and even then many of my past attempts have gotten apparent dry joints with some fairly top shelf pasteif its as simple as your claiming ill go for it but a $40 chip and the cost of a 8 layer PCB run i dont want to fuck it up

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:42:31 am
content: You might fuck up the board if you mess something up, which would definitely be a pain, but you ought to be able to retrieve the chip with hot air if you're careful about it. The alignment can be difficult, but doesn't have to be perfect, as it will be pulled in somewhat if you get the temperature curves right.Still - are you really sure youneedUSB 3.0? Think about all the stuff that's been done in electronics before it came out... Why can't you buffer and retransmit slower, if it is bursts like you said?

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:43:11 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 03, 2013, 12:28:25 am+1

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:45:44 am
content: Quote from: marshallh on May 03, 2013, 12:27:25 amsorry i believe i was quite straightforward with what i was looking forand i learned quite quickly on here when i post what my application is specifically i dont get the help im looking for i just get people talking about what im working on ... that will be a seprete thread but i basically need 750mbps communication with the hostseeing how there is apparently nothing out there that you 2 know about and i cant find i will probably just send it thru ethernet and invest that money instead to a new host with a more reliable ethernetbut again there will be a separate post in the next few months about the full project

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:48:48 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 03, 2013, 12:42:31 amthanks for all your help but after looking around and talking to you guys i have opted to go for a gb+ ethernet communication and swapping out my host PCthanks again

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 12:50:17 am
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on May 03, 2013, 12:45:44 am1) Not an answer service.2) As an engineer, you should recognize that sometimes the correct answer is "that's not the correct question". Fully understanding the question is a requirement of that.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 01:14:18 am
content: Since you can use USB or TCP, I'm assuming the issue is the hardware layer? ie Your MPU/CPU can process fast enough, you justneed to pipe it somewhere ?? Unless, for some reason, you need the protocol "wrapper" ? If not, I've used Single mode Fibre,actually VERY easy to use. Also, used SATA drive ICs. How is that data coming in? Parallel? If so, then are you using the "protocol"to convert it to serial stream and do all the fancy packet handling as well. If that's the case, there's simple ways around that as well.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 10:50:19 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on May 03, 2013, 01:14:18 am?Afaik there are no stand alone SATA 2/3 phy chips, only IP cores. Even Virtex 5 doesnt go fast enough for SATA 3.The only cheap >40MB/s option available is 'SATA/150 to Ultra ATA/133' board at ~$3 (including shipping)examplehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-To-IDE-HD-Motherboard-Adapter-Ultra-ATA-100-133-SA88-/140934619187and pretending your device is an IDE HDD or writing own driver for it. You can then connect it to eSATA port or 'USB 3.0 to SATA' dongle and get sustained 133MB/s

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2013, 11:12:16 pm
content: Quote from: RaszNot knowing the OPs requirements / setup, I was thinking of something like the MAX4951, a SATA redriver, as a hardware layer only.You don't need SATA in, that's easy to "fudge", but you get true SATA eSATA out. It was just another idea based on scant info.Using your plug-in / ready made cards is also an option, IF we knew what the OP needed :-)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2013, 01:04:01 am
content: I think I actually have a solution for the OP%-Bhttp://www.genesyslogic.com/_en/product_01_1.php?id=78used in this:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056TYRMW/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0056TYRMW&linkCode=as2&tag=legirevi03-20LQFP128 (there is a newer LQFP64 version), works like a charm on 4 layer board, but I could totally see it work on 2 layer if you only use CF IO bank.http://goughlui.com/?p=2463Actually delivers speed. 118MB/s read on a card that is rated 120MB/s max.http://www.dkamera.de/news/aktuelle-speicherkarten-im-dkamerade-geschwindigkeitstest/Internally looks like Cypress FX2LP. 8051 controlling FIFO engine.Its $15 with shipping for whole reader = chip will be half that or less.Now the question is can you get proper datasheet from Genesys? This could be a perfect chip for hobby use - definitely better than FX2LP and FT2232H. 100MB/s at your fingertips below $20