it starts with a soldering Iron - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 02:55:59 pm
content: then a DMM,then before you know it your spare room looks like the local swap meet of the county electronics club, the floor is no longer viewable and you have to float around the room, is this normal. On top of this your brain is telling you that you need to start building cupboards and shelves upward and you need and absolutely MUST have x , y and z bit of kit or things just will not work.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 07:12:06 pm
content: Then you join some electronics engineering forums that have little to do with •engineering• , and you begin to think you are the only stupid one in the Universe who does have that goofy looking latest Yglent or Ygol or Yihua, and you rush and put some cash into it. And you cant wait for it to arrive, and you make sure everyone on the forum knows that and shares your puppy excitement. And when you finally get it you scratch your head and wonder if you were more stupid before or are now.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 07:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on August 22, 2015, 07:12:06 pmIt all starts with ....a screwdriver. Then another and another. So many different types of screws, sometimes it seems they just don't want you to take it apart!.As for the Ygolent equipment accumulation disease....I'm with Bud on this one....Yeah, well, on more thread on which DMM or a which DSO and I'll start breaking out in hives. And I've only been here for a short time.If you DMM shows the difference between 5 and 9 volts, it's good enough. And if on your scope you can tell the difference between a square and a sine wave then the 'scope is good enough.I read "you can only get this far with an analog 'scope'. If you can't get far with an analog 'scope, you are going the wrong way!!!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 06:13:44 am
content: Any idiot can go out and buy tools, learning how to use them properly and putting them to good use actually requires more effort than a few clicks.The large walls of gear you see from engineers and hams is a lifetime accumulation in many cases. Much of it would have been acquired cheaply if not free, lovingly repaired and restored, other more substantial gear would have been saved for and purchased out of necessity rather than impulse.To learn electronics you don't need to spend any money at all (think about it), and you're fooling yourself if you think owning test and measurement equipment makes you any more knowledgeable in electronics.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 07:08:31 am
content: Back in the 80s, high school and later electronics engineering in college, the only tools I own are a cutter, pliers, 30W soldering iron, a DIY power supply, and an analog multimeter that I assembled from a kit. I have some ferric chloride, dry transfer and permanent marker pen for making PCBs, and my very own 3/64" drill bit.And using these primitive tools, I've built a lot of projects back then... phono preamps, line preamps, amplifiers, EQs, AM/FM radio, strobe lights, running lights, VU meters, some digital clock, color organ, "knight riders", etc. I didn't have a scope, signal gen, or SA, or other tools. A signal tracer and multimeter is pretty much it for troubleshooting.Nowadays, I see people spending $400 for a power supply to get into this hobby! WHAT? Why don't you make your own power supply if you want to learn electronics? A PSU is a good first project.Also, I'm just not into measurebation and more measurebation for the pleasure of it... I don't need 0.001% accuracy and 10 digital multimeters with 8 digit accuracy, +/-1ppb, to do some useful work.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 08:06:03 am
content: Quote from: fivefish on August 23, 2015, 07:08:31 amThey miss the entire point of electronics. You don't even have to build it, if you find it in an old scrapped piece of equipment I think that is ok too.Quotenice way to put it

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 am
content: The thing I have never understood is the desire to create something that looks like a shop window display, rows of equipment some of which does not get turned on for weeks. Dave does it, Shariar does it, and there are also places like the TRX Bench and Mr Carlson's Lab. Most of the gear in my workshop is PC based and I do my work looking at a nineteen inch monitor with multiple open windows, What do I have available?200 MHz Oscilloscope100 MHz Spectrum AnalyzerChart RecorderTwo Channel Five Digit Multimeter(all of the above are done in one box)16 Channel Logic Analyzer180 MHz VNAAudio Signal Generator (through PC soundcard)RF Power MeterAnd I'm working on a 10-Digit USB Frequency CounterAs for the tools (the original purpose of this thread) I'm still using most of the Xcelite toolkit I purchased twenty years ago, the last addition was a 4-40 tap for something that was manufactured in the USA.

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 10:03:41 am
content: Quote from: Shock on August 23, 2015, 06:13:44 amVery good post, completely agree with the above.There is a saying here in the UK and that is "All the gear and no idea"

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 12:01:45 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 amAll engineers who have dedicated a large part of their life to electronics.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 04:54:46 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 amyou sound like a poor thats short on space why you talkin shit about my wall soni got a 128 channel logic analyzer, 8.5 digit meter 2x, 7.5 digit meter 1x, ultra low noise dual linear supply 2x, 6.5 digit meter 1x, 5.5 digit meter 1x, 150 MHz dual function generator , thermal RMS meter, oscilloscope 2x, spectrum analyzer , etc. I have used 80% of this equipment turned on at once working on testing 1 device.it all depends on what you are interested in. a wall is not enough for me, i need some kind of circular benches surrounding me towered with test equipment

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 05:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 amMJ Lorton is the worst for that, I think in one of the videos he did he had like 10 DMM behind him on shelvs all switched on LOLPeople do this for two reasons1st) they want to impress themselfs and other people.2nd) they dont have much storage/shelf space and keep it all near the bench.German_EE I would like to do the same as you and go over to PC based test gear as I have a very small work bench but a24" Monitor right next to it.Ohh and the Flumpilator is still working great!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 07:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on August 23, 2015, 07:08:31 amThere comes the problem with the word "some". When you *do* need this resolution and accuracy and do not have appropriate gear on hand it becomes pain in the arse, you cannot do *anything* about the project without it, it becomes a showstopper.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 07:31:51 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on August 23, 2015, 06:13:44 amImho not true. Having access to the equipment accelerates your learning growth immensely. I was the one that gone through this path. I built a fair knowledge to the extent I was not going any higher anymore, and I realized I need equipment to continue to learn, design and troubleshoot circuits.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 09:46:41 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on August 23, 2015, 07:20:45 pm+1 purely for the choice of arse over ass lol.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 12:22:09 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 amAre you going to make your designs OSHW?200MHz PC-based oscilloscope? USB 2.0/3.0/3.1 or GigE? How can it capture? Is it supported by Sigrok? How does it cost? max sample rate? memory depth? waveform generator? serial decoding? advanced triggers? voltage input ranges? over voltage protection?Anyway, what's that product do you have?There's many bad publicity about these PC dependent oscilloscopes, not only because of lack of knobs but also limits of USB.Anyway, I wonder how much does them cost.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/traditional-scope-versus-pc-based-scope/

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 01:19:20 am
content: Quote from: Bud on August 23, 2015, 07:31:51 pmThis is the wrong message to send out to beginners because taken literately it implies you need more and more equipment to advance in electronics. When actually it should be your knowledge and the increased complexity of your projects that advances the need. A better message would be, "start with any old multimeter and soldering iron and learn to master what you have".It's pretty self evident in beginner posts and the replies they get. I won't name names but when an absolute beginner has to buy a function generator because they don't have waveforms to display on their expensive oscilloscope it's starts to get ridiculous.For those who think they need equipment in order to gain approval of their peers it's exactly the opposite, it's about what you know, not what you have.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 01:33:01 am
content: QuoteIt turns out you can download one of them things for your phone....a little cramped on a phone, on a tablet with more screen real estate you can skip the stylus...

author: MikeW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 08:08:29 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 amFor the same reason that Jay Leno has a garage full of sports cars. Obviously he only really needs one sensible run-around when it comes down to it but that's not the point.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 07:01:37 pm
content: In my case I have a Picoscope 3206 which is a USB 2 based instrument. Maximum voltage input is +/- 20V with a x1 probe and it goes down to 10mV a division. A basic waveform generator (sine/square/triangle) is built in and serial decoding works with the latest version of the driver software. My model is now discontinued so I can't give you a current price.See the following link for more details:https://www.picotech.com/download/datasheets/PicoScope3200ABSeriesDataSheet.pdf

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 08:09:30 pm
content: Quote from: MikeW on August 24, 2015, 08:08:29 amCars attract chicks and are babe-magnets. More cars = more chicks.Multimeters and scopes don't

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 09:14:52 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on August 24, 2015, 08:09:30 pmMaybe EE girls like Jeri Ellsworth could be interested in good instruments.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 09:32:52 pm
content: Yeah I have a lot of redundant equipment. Much of it built by myself. And much of the redundant equipment is replacement for what I built earlier. There is a balance. I know that mine started shifting toward factory kit several decades ago when I was in the local electronics emporium (such things were once widespread) to purchase the components for a moderately high power stereo and companion preamp that I had designed. There in the middle of the floor was a stack of surplus stereo receivers, neatly packaged up and tested for less than the components I intended to purchase that day. Specs were the same or better than what I designed, and I hadn't included a tuner in my plans. I realized that I had gotten what I wanted out of designing the beast, and that I didn't really enjoy making enclosures and that I had plenty of other soldering and testing projects. The receiver came home with me, none of the parts did.If a wall of gear floats your boat, go for it. If being able to say you made your own atomic clock from scratch, more power to you. The whole point of this is doing what you like, no need to be ashamed of any of it.

author: MikeW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 09:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on August 24, 2015, 08:09:30 pmMy autistic side wants to deconstruct this argument, the other side hopes you are joking.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2015, 09:49:00 pm
content: One rule doesn't apply to all. As the saying goes: different stroke for different folks.Some want to have the best, some want to have the fastest, some want the biggest, some want the smallest... And each likely got kick-started with something different.As long as it enriches one's life (legally of course), that would be a good thing.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2015, 02:56:57 am
content: Quote from: MikeW on August 24, 2015, 09:37:12 pmMake a choice and don't take things too literally.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2015, 03:14:52 am
content: Quote from: Shock on August 24, 2015, 01:19:20 amI cannot remember anything wrong me being a 14 years old boy tuning a receiver input stage using an industrial grade signal gen. Without it there was no chance to getting my superhet tuned properly.When you get into RF you better have proper gear. Not having gear will mislead you and actually may cause incorrect knowledge.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2015, 04:33:33 am
content: Take a look at this university labthey do great work and have a lot less equipment than many here on this forumThey have a scope, sig gen, and ps and a large monitor.

author: niflheimer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2015, 06:09:18 am
content: That's what I like at Mike's videos - he's got quite some impressive stuff - but he doesn't flaunt them and he kicks his stuff to the edge of its capabilities to do a job. Fancy digital signal analyzer ? Screw that , give him a decent DSO and he'll do it.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2015, 04:17:26 am
content: Quote from: mcinque on August 24, 2015, 09:14:52 pmI'm suspicious that she's not interested in that type of hardware, but this is only based on some pictures and the lack of known couple since forever.From my POV:EE girls are a very mutation, their genes and education makes women get interested in other aspects (often more social or artistic). Despite they can be excellent at maths if they propose it.Please prove me if I'm wrong....

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2015, 04:39:01 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on August 26, 2015, 04:17:26 amYeah, Jeri is (or at least was) interested in cars as well, race them, tune them, build them. There is not much she can't do

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2015, 01:15:42 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on August 26, 2015, 04:39:01 amI was doing a twisted use of language. Anyway, it doesn't matter.I hope Jeri is a good role model to other women, but there needs to be more of them!What about a female version of Bob Wildar? A twisted, rude and crazy genius woman in the IC design field.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2015, 05:57:36 am
content: Quote from: MikeW on August 24, 2015, 09:37:12 pmThat neighbour with his nearly 20 cars and trucks in the back doesn't attract too many chicks with that.The car/money conversion ratio and the associated kwan must have something to do with it.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2015, 08:29:10 pm
content: I'd love to be able to afford much of the equipment regularly shown. Sadly I can't; both for monetary and space considerations. Therefore I use the equipment I have to the best of my ability whilst realising their limitations.The best equipment is one's own brain!