R&S to launch MXO5 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 04:05:51 pm
content: Buried in their website code is the name of the MXO5 Oscilloscope. Cats out of the bag, 42 days early.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/promotion/next-generation_255909.html

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 05:10:38 pm
content: Specs:- 4 and 8 channels- 350, 500 MHz, 1 GHz, 2 GHz- 12 bitsPricing:MXO54 500MHz $4,120MXO54 1 GHz $9,680MXO54 2 GHz $12,875MXO58 350 MHz $9,040MXO58 500 MHz $16,250MXO58 1 GHz $25,520MXO58 2 GHz $30,670MXO5-k31.03 power analysis $2,470

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 05:30:15 pm
content: Bad image.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 06:24:44 pm
content: Going after Siglent's new 7000 with that pricing

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 06:37:49 pm
content: Quote from: Stranger_danger on September 18, 2023, 05:10:38 pmThat starts at less than the least expensive MXO44 200MHz model. Will the MXO5 series be lower end than the MXO4 series?

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 06:43:14 pm
content: Huh, still not really hobbyist pricing but the lowest spec model is maybe edging into enticing-if-hackable territory.

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 06:50:14 pm
content: Quote from: gslick on September 18, 2023, 06:37:49 pmFound the pricing cached through Newark. Not clear if it's an option on top of base model or total price. "MXO5-B245.03" was the option found.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 07:30:34 pm
content: B245 sounds like an option code sadly. Assuming that the 8-channel option is a SW one it would also explain having a 350MHz option on 8-channels only - it's an option to bump channel number up rather than BW, given a base of 350MHz.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 07:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on September 18, 2023, 06:24:44 pmSDS7000A are 2-4 GHz models whereas SDS6000L 2GHz and 8ch is the better fit.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 08:32:08 pm
content: QuoteHmm...That's hard to believe.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 09:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: Stranger_danger on September 18, 2023, 05:10:38 pmWhere do you get this?

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 09:16:28 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 18, 2023, 09:14:27 pmIt's cached on Google.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 09:21:17 pm
content: I find nothing..

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 09:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 18, 2023, 08:32:08 pmNot if everything is option. 2500 € power analysis. Segmented mode XXXX€ , decoding even basic protocols XXXX€.. etc etc...Same as RTB2004 basic is not much more expensive than some competition but has nothing on it if you don't buy options.But as Hydron said, those could actually be upgrade options prices from a basic 350 MHz 4ch scope.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 09:50:28 pm
content: Google cache shows that all of that are upgrade options.If not, Rigol could suffer a big blow.Unless the boot time is not pleasant...Edit: I also searched the cacheand, now, I'm not so sure...It seems the prices are for the base models:MXO5-B245 $4,120.00 Upgrade 500MHzMXO5-B2410 $9,680.00 Upgrade 1 GHzMXO5-B2420 $12,875.00 Upgrade 2 GHzMXO5-B282 $3,890.00 Upgrade 200 MHzMXO5-B283 $9,040.00 Upgrade 350 MHzMXO5-B285 $16,250.00 Upgrade 500 MHzMXO5-B2810 $25,520.00 Upgrade 1 GHzMXO5-B2820 $30,670.00 Upgrade 2 GHzMXO5-B110 $3,090.00 Memory upgrade 1GptsMXO5-B6 $1,440.00 Waveform generatorMXO5-K31 $2,470.00 Power AnalysysMXO5-K36 $2,470.00 Bode PlotMXO5-K520 $2,885.00 CAN, CAN-FD, CAN-XL decoder(from the Newark cached pages, as above)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 10:33:57 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 18, 2023, 09:41:01 pmWho pays anything for the options...If that wasn't a misprint and the scope isn't the very worst snot, this could get interesting if a third party throws their hat into the ring of barely affordable 12-bit scopes.

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 11:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 18, 2023, 09:50:28 pmIf I look at how they price the MXO4. There is a base 200MHz 4-channel model. To upgrade from 200MHz to 350MHz is option B243 (Base-200MHz-4channel-350MHz).To upgrade to a 1 GHz the MXO4 goes MXO4-B2410 (200MHz-4channel-1.0GHz).So looking at the options you found, most of those are 200MHz, 8 channel or 4 channel, to 350MHz, 500MHz, 1.0 GHz and 2.0 GHz. We're missing the Base model pricing.Scope total price = Base + BandwidthOtherwise Newark lists configured prices and bundles for the MXO4. For instance MXO44-2410 is a MXO4 4 channel with the 200MHz to 1 GHz bandwidth option. But search for MXO5-2820, all I see cached is the option, not the configured option price.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 07:30:07 am
content: Considering the MX04 has enjoyed upto 48% off RRP in the last tweleve months on certain model configurations. The MX05 is either a 'budget model' or that pricing is like Dave's experinace with pathway software some what screwedThe 1.5Ghz MX04 here in the UK with discounts can be had for around £18.5K plus vat so pretty sure R&S arn't going to release the next model up for less

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 10:21:39 am
content: Quote from: Stranger_danger on September 18, 2023, 11:09:14 pmThat logic makes sense but, then, what is the MXO5-B282.03 upgrade (in the list)?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 11:57:25 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 19, 2023, 10:21:39 am4 to 8 channel soft upgrade?

author: Spectral_Duck
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 06:25:29 pm
content: Looks like Newark also accidentally posted early. Sadly, all the pages now lead to a 404. I typed the following into google to find it.site:"newark.com" mxo5

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 10:25:11 am
content: At least now I can publicly say that the MXO5 supports up to 8 channelshttps://www.linkedin.com/posts/rohde-%26-schwarz_oscilloscope-evolvedformore-activity-7122854319787274240-Ti98Only ~5 more days to go!https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/promotion/next-generation_255909.html

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 10:29:25 am
content: Is there any 70MHz version with a price tag below 1k to compete with DHO804? I'd buy one

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 10:55:02 am
content: QuoteI had registered via the company address.Instead of the advertised benefits such as early news about the scope, I get only promotional garbage....

author: jusaca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 12:39:17 pm
content: QuoteWell, that's something I could work withNot that I could afford such a scope, but...Source:https://assets.testequity.com/te1/Documents/pdf/rs/RS_Fact_Sheet_MXO5_v1.00_1023.pdf

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 12:52:29 pm
content: Only one year warranty...Ah, you can buy additional warranty time, clever.

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 07:26:54 pm
content: I can’t help but think these new R&S scopes are underbaked and being rushed to market.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 07:38:34 pm
content: Still waiting for them to release something fast for baseband analysis in high-speed serdes design. They promised me one 5 years ago, and I'm still waiting!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 08:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: chriswebb on October 30, 2023, 07:26:54 pmWell, we spent over 4 years developing our own ASIC for the MXO4, which now has the fastest waveform update rate in the world (plus the deepest standard memory, our patented digital trigger, etc. etc. etc.).Since the cat is already halfway out of the bag (and will be all the way out of the bag in about 8 more hours), the MXO5 leverages a lot of those years of R&D we put into the MXO4. And work on the MXO5 began long before the MXO4 was released last year.No test and measurement instrument is brought to market with every feature and option available on the first day. Sure, we'd like to do that, but the reality is that we have plenty of customers who buy our scopes (and spec ans, sig gens, VNAs, power sensors, etc.) and use them successfully with the features and options that are available today.I spent over 20 years as a field applications engineer working with T&M customers, and I can assure you that almost every customer has something they'd like us to add to even our most mature products.So if we're releasing "underbaked" products, I'm not sure what else we could be doing - but we're always looking for feedback!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 08:47:25 pm
content: Cheaper or not, that is the question..First I thought yes it must be, because of 100Mhz bandwith - But this is a eight-channel version...

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 09:03:23 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 30, 2023, 08:47:25 pmMartin, something like this will never be cheap (even if it was a 50MHz with 2-ch).

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 09:17:59 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 30, 2023, 08:34:18 pmI am in the market for a 2GHz scope at the moment and I was hoping your MXO 5 would fit the bill, but I cannot hope that one day you will implement the features that I need. I have to make the decision on the features you have delivered. And sure I could probably buy your scope and get the features i need from other equipment, but why would I do that when I can get everything I require in single packages elsewhere? I dont need dedicated equipment for features I may only need occasionally.I would also like to add that what you said does not necessarily contradict my original point, i.e. you are now trying to rush to market to compete with cheaper brands’ new scopes to recoup your R&D costs of your new hardware while in my eyes at least not providing a more complete software package. I really like your new hardware, and I really was hoping that this would be my new scope.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 09:42:41 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on October 30, 2023, 09:03:23 pmCheaper, not cheap.But I quickly realized my mistake and so such a scope remains just a dream.Theoretically.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 09:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: chriswebb on October 30, 2023, 09:17:59 pmCompletely fair. Are there specific features that you're looking for that we don't have on the MXO5?Quote from: chriswebb on October 30, 2023, 09:17:59 pmI can absolutely, positively, 100% assure you that we aren't "rushing" anything to market to compete with "cheaper brands' new scopes"(and by "cheaper" I assume by this you mean Siglent, Rigol, Owon, etc.).As a hobbyist who's bought both analog and digital scopes for his own personal use with his own money (I can post pictures), I'm honestly very impressed by how far some of these "cheaper brands' new scopes" have come in the last decade or so. But that's not the market that we are addressing the the MXO4 and MXO5.Yes, it'd be great of someone who was about to buy a new Rigol DHO80x said: "You know, I might just spend the extra money and get a R&S MXO", but I get the feeling that doesn't happen very often. (Although if you are such a person, please PM me!)But I do appreciate the feedback and I'm very sincere when I say that we are always interested in hearing which features / capabilities are most needed by our (potential) customers, so please do let us know!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 09:58:15 pm
content: QuoteMeanwhile, you can spend 20000 or more for a siglent or rigol scope, the models are there.For the hobbyist with a somewhat higher budget, it would be interesting to know whether a successor to the RTB2000 is planned or in the starting blocks.Edit:QuoteAt that time, I had resolved never to spend more than 2500€ on a scope.Then came the SDS2000XHD and I put 3600 for it, that was already hard on the edge.In the meantime I would go further if I could see a clear improvement in it, but....https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Rohde-Schwarz-MXO44-242.htmlNo Sir...

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 11:20:22 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 30, 2023, 09:51:01 pmI definitely recognize that lurkers like me are an impossibly small market. I can't even get Keysight to directly sell me used equipment with only 90 day warranties just sitting in inventory for instance (edit: one of the big reasons for waiting for the MXO 5). I can definitely appreciate that you can't expect to make money and cater to such small numbers, and honestly when I originally posted I never expected anyone from R&S to actually see it let alone respond to it. I appreciate your taking the time to respond here. I really hope this launch goes well for R&S. I look forward to seeing where you guys go with these products.

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 11:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 30, 2023, 08:34:18 pmSince the cat is out of the bag, can you elaborate on the MXO5 ASIC? You make the comment of spending 4 years to build your own for the MXO4 and starting this one well before that.The MXO5 datasheet says it's 2.5GS/s and 12-bit ADC and 18-bit architecture in HD mode. Is this a R&S custom made ASIC/ADC chipset as well? and how does 18-bit storage work?

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 12:58:59 am
content: Quote from: chriswebb on October 30, 2023, 11:20:22 pmThanks!!! And there are quite a few R&S folks -- including some of our oscilloscope design team members -- who are here on the EEVblog forum as well: I'm just one of the few who posts as an R&S employee using my real nameAnd please feel free to reach out any time. We honestly do appreciate all of the feedback and comments we get!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 01:21:29 am
content: Quote from: Stranger_danger on October 30, 2023, 11:26:21 pmWe actually started the brainstorming for the MXO4 back in 2016 (!!!) and started active development in 2018.And yes, the ASIC in the MXO is our custom-designed MXO-EP (200 Gbit/s). Among other things, this ASIC enables an update rate of up to 4.5 million acquisitions/s, which is the world's fastest update rate, as tested by Dave Jones himself. Dave also did a teardown video if you're interested:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1545-worlds-fastest-oscilloscope-mxo4-teardown/The MXO can use something called high-definition mode where bandwidth is traded off for bits of vertical resolution (lower BW -> more bits). I actually made a video that provides a brief technical introduction HD mode and how it increases vertical resolution (compared to other methods).Not sure how much more I can say before the official launch (4 hours from now)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 01:38:01 am
content: QuoteIt has something of the Apple events where they present the latest iPhone to their fans.Wow, you can also use it to make phone calls...Awesome, what's next...?It´s just another scope at the end.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 03:40:38 am
content: It's ok to not have hype, but it's ok to have hype tooThose fast FFTs are pretty slick. Maybe even something about differential channels or a motor app?Given the sample rates, I suspect the ADC is the sameTIchip from the MXO4. On one hand, we all like to hear about crazy custom ADCs, but on the other, for hobby purposes it's nice to have obtanium inside. If a zillion channels becomes the standard, I have a sneaking suspicion that single-channel fails will land powerful scopes onto the benches of enthusiasts, so it's good for us if those are repairableAlso, when I took a second look at the datasheet today I saw something I didn't see last time, namely the background calibration routine (7-4). Apparently it swaps redundant ADC cores in and out to achieve on-the-fly background calibration. Very cool!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 11:27:23 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 30, 2023, 09:42:41 pmtv84: Stay away from the light!!!Martin72: Next Xmas, maybe I...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 11:39:29 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 01:21:29 amWhat would be super nice is a mode where you can have a fixed bandwidth setting. Recently I used my Yokogawa 12 bit scope to measure tiny signals (in the 50uV/div territory) and what helps a lot is being able to filter down to a couple of hundred Hz using a fixed setting. Now this Yokogawa design is 20 years old so nowhere near as low noise as modern oscilloscopes so it should be possible to achieve similar performance using higher bandwidths.One of the things that annoys me when using high resolution modes is that you never really know with what bandwidth you are looking at a signal.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 11:51:59 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 01:21:29 amThat HiDef mode is equivalent to ERES in LeCroy and Siglent and HiRes by other manufacturers.R&S, like LeCroy and Siglent, provide pretty fine control of the process, which makes it useful.I think 6bit "enhancement" (12->18bit) is bit of a stretch, but it is useful as a lowpass filter anyways..

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 11:55:03 am
content: Very exciting !Can't wait for actual configurations & pricing and availability date !I'm still in the market for an upgrade ...EDIT: Found the answers I was looking for:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/th/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-mxo-5-oscilloscope_334228.htmlCheers,rudi

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 12:17:37 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on October 31, 2023, 11:27:23 amStartingprice MX05: 17000€....No my friend, that is worlds away from what I can spend, that would be at most something for the company.The MX04 on the other hand is "significantly cheaper", but that would only come into question if I won the lottery.Nope, I'll probably stay loyal to Siglent.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 01:39:08 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 31, 2023, 11:51:59 amThe biggest advantage of HD mode over other methods of improving vertical resolution is that you have explicit control over the bandwidth. We do have a "high resolution" mode on some of our other scopes, but that mode doesn't allow you to specify the bandwidth. I'll admit that I don't know enough technical details about other vendors' implementations to (reliably / credibly) compare and contrast.Quote from: 2N3055 on October 31, 2023, 11:51:59 amDepending on what you're looking at, the improvement in resolution from HD mode can be anywhere between (OMG!) and almost unnoticeable. That said, once you get used to having HD mode as an option, it's really hard to go back: as time goes on I find myself using it more and more often.(It's also a standard feature, so it doesn't cost extra)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 01:51:20 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 01:39:08 pmERES is pretty much same (as it is implemented in hardware in LeCroy and Siglent, or you have one in Math for postprocessing at will).I would have to see how it is implemented in MXO5 but ERES in Siglent for instance does not show BW reduction on screen. It is easy to calculate though, but I would still like it to be there in plain sight. I like when scope calculates and plainly shows those things for us, wherever is possible...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 01:58:46 pm
content: QuoteLeCroys MAUI scopes do this(showing bandwith when using Eres)..Could be something for the (siglent)wish list.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:23:16 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 01:39:08 pmAha, so it does allow setting the bandwidth!IMHO that is a major differentiation from eres / highres modes and makes it much more usefull. It would be nice if the marketing department could come up with a better term than HD mode. Even without giving additional bits, it will be highly useful for sure.What is the lowest bandwidth you can set for 'HD mode'?

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 31, 2023, 02:23:16 pmWhen you enable HD mode, you select bandwidth in steps from 1 kHz to 300 MHz and the vertical resolution in bits is shown.Quote from: nctnico on October 31, 2023, 02:23:16 pmPart of the reason I made the video was to explain the difference between "highresolution" mode and "highdefinition" mode. I'm pretty sure we're going to stick with "high definition" mode but will probably phase out "high resolution" over time. The MXO series only have HD mode.And believe me, I have regular conversations with our marketing and product management teams about how we name things

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:41:14 pm
content: Yeah, naming things can easely lead to heated discussions. At some customers I've seen products change names 3 or 4 times even after being introduced...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:42:32 pm
content: QuoteOhh...This would make it easy for me to display the sine from the PWMs...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:47:23 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 31, 2023, 02:42:32 pmOr a small ripple current on a current shunt (with the right probing solution though)

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:50:47 pm
content: Regarding FFTs, do they operate on an independent parallel stream of time-domain samples so that low RBW and long fft acquisition time does not necessarily force long time domain acquisition time? Or do FFTs operate downstream of time domain acquisition so low RBW requires long acquisition? In any case, they look slick. 12 bits and loads of FFT/sec really makes beautiful spectra!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 31, 2023, 02:41:14 pmFortunately, most of the really awful / unfortunate product names get filtered out before release.Personally, I think the hassle involved in changing names after product introduction is usually not worth the benefit: I can't remember a time when we (R&S) have ever changed the name of a product after launch, but that might be because most of our product names are just three letter combinations

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 02:55:18 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on October 31, 2023, 02:50:47 pmOne of the strengths of the MXO series is that the FFT settings are independent of the time domain settings. Here's a quick (1 min) explanation and demonstration from one of my team members:We have lots and lots of experience with spectrum / frequency domain analysis at R&S

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 03:05:44 pm
content: Even if you choose a good name, someone else can spoil it. Back in school, I had an interview at a pharma company called "Isis Pharmaceuticals." Between scheduling the interview and attending it, the ISIS terror group popped into the news cycle with their brutal execution videos. I didn't make the connection until the next time I looked at my schedule and had to do a double take, lol. When I asked them, the consensus was "yeah, we'll probably have to change the name," and shortly thereafter they did. They are now "Ionis Pharmaceuticals."

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 03:09:49 pm
content: Gentlemen, let us cut to the chase pricing would nice here

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 03:14:11 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 02:55:18 pmDoes this mean sample rate and datastreams are independent (two different data pumps and streams)?If that is so you could implement Frequency domain cross triggering. Now, that would be very nice...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 03:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on October 31, 2023, 03:09:49 pmQuote from: luudee on October 31, 2023, 11:55:03 am

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 03:49:35 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 31, 2023, 03:14:11 pmI think the FFT is still operating downstream from the time domain acquisition so I don't think we can do that yet (at least not with high POI). I'd benefit greatly from being able to look at power/signal rails at low Fs and FFTs at high Fs, but I don't think the architecture supports this (yet?). You still have considerable freedom to adjust FFT settings on an acquisition -- wider RBW means you can fit more overlapped windows -- but I think they still need to fit in the time domain acquisition Fs/length, so you need to lengthen the time domain acquisition if you want small RBW and you need to store high frequency samples if you want a high max frequency in your FFT. R&S easily has the best FFTs given these constraints, but it is exactly because R&S makes RTSAs that operate on a gapless parallel stream (i.e. without these constraints) that hope springs eternal.While you're at it, could you bring back deep voice guy too

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 04:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on October 31, 2023, 03:49:35 pmI'm not sure I could take the pressure of competing with deep voice guy

author: Stranger_danger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 04:21:17 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 02:55:18 pmIf the FFT can be adjusted without impacting the analog signal (from the video). Is this a parallel FFT/DDC processed in an FPGA along side an analog ADC stream of data that both end up both sharing the same memory? This would mean FFT/DDC doesn't rely on long analog acquisitions being acquired to calculate smaller RBW. So did you get around all the Tektronix patents? They basically wrote the book on the Mixed Domain Oscilloscope and then implemented it in their TEK049 ASIC. Believe this is why Keysight's EXR/MXR is a DDC in series after the ADC, both are not displayed or time correlated, but somehow yours is.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 04:58:11 pm
content: Now, that is a serious animal. The MXO5 of course.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 05:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on October 31, 2023, 03:49:35 pmThere are options in addition to always running ADC that has two full BW streams, one going to, let's call it, SA engine, and other going to triggering and paging and then to time domain scope engine.They could pipe out data for SA after trigger engine (where it is still in full data rate) and before decimation. So you could have separate decimation and hence sample rate. I would still use same triggered blocks and route/decimate/process left and right.Less throughput needed that way. Basically use same ping-pong buffers just route them left and right.Also if triggering engine has such a low blind time, it could also simply copy time-domain /frequency domain block in time shared multiplexed fashion with same data pump...Interesting...

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 07:54:08 pm
content: Ok, it starts at 17K but what is the cost for an 8 channel 2Ghz model with three phase and power analysis options with two matching current probes and HVDP's

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 07:54:45 pm
content: Ok, it starts at 17K but what is the cost for an 8 channel 2Ghz model with three phase and power analysis options with three matching current probes and HVDP's

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 08:11:47 pm
content: Batronix has already listed the new ones...8-ch 2Ghz :https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Rohde-Schwarz-MXO5-820.html

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 08:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 31, 2023, 08:11:47 pmMARTIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Close the browser and go to bed!!!!!!!!!!!

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 09:25:13 pm
content: It's a bang3r.. but also out of most hobby-based-consumers' reach, at 17K and likely +25%VAT on top for the fun of it + options... Gonna stay a dream for many, unless you're financially polstered where the aspect of funds are relative or your a potent social media influencer.. that can "influence"How common are these user-selectable hardware digital bandwidth filters on modern scopes? lowpass (FIR) / highpass etc.. where you can cycle it at will at your heart's desire on your full bandwidth.?Seems the LPF/FIR-filter in these R&S like MXO5 goes from 1Khz to 300Mhz, quite a span... - what interval resolution.. 1khz step? can you swipe so you can see the waveform signal behave while adjusting the filter on the fly as that could be handy, or is it dial it in, and it will adjust accordingly but not continuously 1Khz to 300Mhz control.The FIR filter (HD) seems to be controllable pr. individual channel, on these more flagship units like MXO5.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 10:01:51 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on October 31, 2023, 09:25:13 pmIt's stepwise - I can post a list of steps if you'd like. You can change the bandwidth and watching the waveform changing - this is actually how I often use that function.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 10:05:12 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 31, 2023, 08:11:47 pmWifey is going kill me. Don't even think about it! German: Denk' nich mal dran

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 10:09:02 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on October 31, 2023, 09:25:13 pmNot super common but you can find models which have this feature in all price brackets and from various vendors. I can highly recommend having a scope around which has settable bandwidth filters; I certainly have put these to good use over the years.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 10:16:45 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 10:01:51 pmPaul, please show us a movie. That would be cool.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2023, 11:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on October 31, 2023, 10:01:51 pmTook a brief look in the MXO5 manual (from Martin's link), with a few searches, (its close to 30 pages)..https://www.batronix.com/files/Rohde-&-Schwarz/Oscilloscope/MXO5/MXO-5_specs_en.pdfQuoteLook'ed on Youtube to see if I could muster a video demonstrating it in practice, to see how these bandwidth filters were implemented on high-end R&S scopes, but no dice, nothing pops up.?The selectable 1Khz to 300Mhz filter seems to be pr channel on the flagship MXO5, which is a plus... would love to see a video with it in practiceQuote from: nctnico on October 31, 2023, 10:09:02 pmYep, I use the H/L filters all the time on my portable scope, surprised me' how much I value it, and the ability to continuously see the visual impact on the specific channels im adjusting it on....though my unit goes from 30Khz to 100Mhz - with down to 1Khz steps, which doesn't seem to make much sense, with such fine 1Khz granularity..but obviously anotherCatfish

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2023, 07:12:31 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on October 31, 2023, 10:16:45 pm

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2023, 06:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 31, 2023, 01:58:46 pmScreenshots from a HDO6034A, I like it when ERES is in the channelsetup box.This is then not simply "ERES for all", but only for the respective channel - Also something for the wish list.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2023, 10:04:12 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on November 01, 2023, 07:12:31 amAll in all, I find that very impressive.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 09:48:05 am
content: R&S® MXO5-410R&S® MXO5-410 - 4 channel oscilloscope with 1 GHz bandwidth, 5 GSa/s sample rate, 12 Bit A/D converter, 500 Mpts memory depth and a 39.6 cm touchdisplay Full-HD (1920x1080 pixel). Upgradable to a MSO with a 16 channel logic analyzer, 2 channel waveform generator and pattern generator. -€ 31,416,- incl. 19% VAT- BATRONIXAgain (as by MXO4), prices very high, but only rudimentary signal analysis capability: "Analysis - matematics - basic (math on math)" without any histograms, histicons...Whats going on here?!?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 10:57:12 am
content: Quote from: bozidarms on November 02, 2023, 09:48:05 amDifferent market segment. I rarely have a need for histograms on an oscilloscope for the work I do.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 12:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 02, 2023, 10:57:12 amOTOH I use histicons almost every day for basic measurements, because it can give great insight in nature of signal. I find them VERY useful, not because you cannot get that info different way, but because they are soveryconvenient.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 01:48:02 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on November 02, 2023, 09:48:05 amI can't publicly comment on specific roadmap items and timeframes, but I wouldn't be surprised to see histograms in the not-too-distant futureThe new MXO series hardware gives us LOTS of flexibility in terms of implementing new functionality, so the biggest issue is trying to prioritize: there's no hardware limitation at all.(In fact, a lot of the "cool" things we can do on the MXO are possible precisely because we can do them in hardware)

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 02:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on November 02, 2023, 01:48:02 pm"Martin has been kicked out from this thread."

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 03:01:14 pm
content: QuoteUnfortenately, till now nothing has hapened with MXO4, and i think nothing will be to expected with MXO5 either.If you look at company hierarchy, real signal analysis starts only with RTO6 platform.Probably, bouth MXO platform are capable for that, but company policy don`t wont that.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 03:22:34 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on November 02, 2023, 03:01:14 pmOh, I wouldn't say that: we just had a major firmware release a few weeks ago that added a number of features, and we are running at full steam to bring out additional features and options. If you look at the release notes of any of our other oscilloscopes (like the RTO6) you can see that we regularly and aggressively introduce new features.[I also say this based on the fact that I have our internal roadmap open in another window and beta FW on my MXO right now]Quote from: bozidarms on November 02, 2023, 03:01:14 pmThat depends on the kind of analysis you are doing: the RTO6 is a higher series scope (RTO6> MXO5> MXO4), so naturally it supports some features not found on lower tier scopes. I absolutely love the RTB2000 ("2"), but I don't expect it to have eye diagrams, jitter analysis, Ethernet conformance testing, etc. We don't try to put every feature in every scope because (a) some scopes are simply unable to perform certain functions and (b) some customers don't want to pay for features and capabilities they don't need. This is true of all scope manufacturers (and indeed, for all companies that manufacture different tiers of products: look at cars, phones, etc.)Quote from: bozidarms on November 02, 2023, 03:01:14 pmHonestly, I would have to look to see if there are any existing features on our higher end scopes (like RTO6 and RTP) that couldn't - theoretically - be ported to the MXO series.* But in a general way, our policy is always to give customers a range of price and performance (and thus cost) choices when it comes to test instruments.(*Now I'm going to go waste half of my day being unproductively curious about something I can't publicly share anyway)

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 03:48:00 pm
content: QuoteThat is exactly what one from Oscilloscope expect when one pay over 30 000 Euro for 1GHz model.QuoteRight - i think the price/performance range hier ist heavily disturbed!

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 03:59:02 pm
content: And more important - we are talking hier not over to exspensive extra options for one exspensive oscilloscope, rather that this options for that exspensive oscilloscope do not exist at all!That is real problem.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 04:02:19 pm
content: Quote from: bozidarms on November 02, 2023, 03:59:02 pmUnderstood. If you have a list of options you think should be on the MXO4 or MXO5 and are not there today, please let me know (post or PM). Our roadmap priorities are almost entirely based on customer feedback, so we genuinely value any advice / suggestions / requests that we receive. Thanks!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 04:15:21 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on November 02, 2023, 02:55:03 pm

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 06:56:52 pm
content: QuoteIn this class, it is not unusual for a scope to be rather "naked" and you have to pay extra for every little bit.Our last two big lecroy scopes don't even have serial decoding on board, that has to be bought first, not to mention other features.No, I'm not surprised about the MXO.In addition, I can only advise you not to buy scopes in this price range from a normal dealer but, where possible, directly from the manufacturer.At lecroy we have never paid the street price of a dealer, never.The discounts can easily reach two figures, or you can get one or two options for free.Well, I've never tried it as a private individual, maybe it only works as a company.You would have to ask, just go to....ask.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 07:03:04 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 02, 2023, 06:56:52 pmI can easy find two well spec 1 GHz models under €8k.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 07:24:01 pm
content: I'm not surprised, Rob.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 10:20:02 pm
content: How tight are the software options on these higher-end scopes from a hackable perspective?- as 5k there and 5k there and 5k there, for some poor peasants, it adds up..

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 10:33:21 pm
content: I think there's hardly anything our gifted chief hacker can't hack...On the other hand, if you can put down €17,000 for a scope...

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2023, 04:52:13 pm
content: That video in reply #78 was quite impressive."Right now we're in non HD mode so you can see that we only have 12bits of resolution" "Only" 12bits!? My scopes both have 8 and I'm sure not all of them are usable :-)Oh well, not within reach (or reason) for me personally but cool nonetheless. (I would have gotten the RTB2000 back in the day but the intro-deal was of limits to Europeans so I shopped elsewhere).

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 04:45:52 pm
content: Hello,I tried to try the measurement of the video in #78 with the AD3. Since the most sensitive setting is 500 mV/div, I used the amplitude 4 Vss instead of 800 mVss.you can see the settings in the picture Signal_W_AD3.jpeg.Best regardsegonotto

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 07:08:06 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on November 04, 2023, 04:45:52 pmAs long as we are comparing notes (hope Paul won't be mad at me for distraction..) to get a feeling of performance baselines, my few cents......With similar scope (1GHz BW, 12 Bit, 5GS/s, 200MHz BW limit set) and similar signal.First we can see baseline nose is less. We can see 10 MHz 2mv ripple on top of signal even in 1GHz BW without any enhancements. With 200MHz BW limit we start to see it more clearly and even better with simple 20MHz BW limit in channel.You can see that in this case R&S 18 bit mode is performing similar to 12bit + 3.5 Bit ERES. That is partially because starting noise is slightly higher on R&S (1.5GHz vs. 1GHz BW+200MHz BW limit that I would use in this case anyways).After 4 bit enhancement (12+4=16Bit enhanced) you will get to point of diminishing returns, resolution wise. But it is still useful as a LP filtering.Like I said before, ERES has very similar performance to this R&S resolution enhancement function.But R&S developed a function a bit further so they also specify LP filtering BW which is very nice touch.I would say that this function on this R&S scope performs well in this regard.Best,

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 05:10:40 am
content: Hello,with R&S ® MXO5-B110 memory option the MXO5 has at least 4 TB memory??Best regardsegonotto

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 10:34:17 am
content: Not 4 TB. Say you'd need 2 bytes per sample. For 8 channels that gives 8 * 2 * 1G = 32Gbyte. That is not an excessive amount by today's standards.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 04:55:08 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 24, 2023, 10:34:17 amHello,Sorry, I should have given a better reason for my question.In the Specifications of MXO 5 underMemory segmentation states, among other things, that:number of segments: 2113record length: 1 Gpointstotal memory: 2113.000 GpointsBest regardsegonotto

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 05:08:24 pm
content: While it is not impossible, not very probable. Most likely a mistake. Or maybe there is streaming to disk. But that would need to be explained. But most likely a typo, because if that was true, it would be on a FIRST page of brochure in very BIG letters.Probably copy-paste problem.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 06:21:24 pm
content: Hello,but there are ten different entries that are consistent in themselves, with more than 1000 Gpoints. This cannot be a careless mistake. How can such a mistake happen?The SSD inside is 256 Gb? perhaps 256 GBThe waveform memory is >= 2x7 GBBest regardsegonotto

author: Swirve
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 09:14:03 pm
content: We're evaluating the MXO5, tek 5 series b and lecroy HDO600B. Is there anyone having input on these three candidates? Pros/cons?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 10:19:03 pm
content: Hi,We have a 6000A (6034A) since 2020 here.It´s completely identical to the 6000B except the display(HDO6000A: 12.1" 1280x800, HDO6000B: 15.6" 1920x1080).It is our "state of the art" scope which we use for in-depth analysis/development.As usual in this price range, each feature has to be purchased as an option and we bought the power analysis, spectrum analyzer and serial decoder package.There are countless other options that turn the scope into a "super scope".It has 8 simultaneously displayable math channels, 16 different grids, intel i5 processor and min 8GB RAM, it is very fast (adjustable).I can't think of any real disadvantages, but I can only judge that from our point of view.I don't know what applications you need the scope for.If I remember correctly, the user "Sighound36" has a 6000B, he could perhaps also say something about it.We don't have Tektronix here, so I can't say anything about it, the MXO5 is brand new, so nobody here will be able to tell you anything about it.Oh well, my recommendation is to buy the scope directly from the manufacturer, you usually get much bigger discounts or options "for free" than through normal dealers.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 11:19:36 pm
content: Quote from: Swirve on December 12, 2023, 09:14:03 pmWhat is your application? Each oscilloscope has its strong / weak points depending on what you need it for. A particular oscilloscope can be great for one purpose and a total dissaster for another purpose.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 11:26:06 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 12, 2023, 10:19:03 pmWell, I can tell you almost anything you want to know about the MXO5.Yes, it’s new, but it’s based on the MXO4, which has been out for a while now.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 11:30:27 pm
content: I´ve forgot to insert "except officials from R&S"...QuoteThat's something I've missed out on here so far, for example.What exactly distinguishes the MXO5 from the MXO4, a list of facts would be welcome.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2023, 11:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 12, 2023, 11:30:27 pmInterface and feature-wise, they are almost the same. The biggest differentiators are:MXO4 BWs are 200, 350, 500, 1000, and 1500 MHz, MXO5 BWs are 350, 500, 1000, and 2000 MHzMXO4 is 4 channels only, MXO5 is 4 or 8 channelsMXO4 has 400 Mpts / channel, MXO5 has 500 Mpts / channelMXO4 has only 1 FFT, MXO5 can do 4 simultaneous FFTsMXO5 is slightly larger with a bigger displayMXO5 has a faster processor (for things that are not done in HW/ASIC)There are some other differences, but those are the biggest ones.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:04:10 am
content: QuoteInteresting, even Rigols DHO800 could do this, because of the four simultaneous matchchannels.So I guess, FFT is not done as a math function on MXO series, right?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:07:11 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on December 12, 2023, 11:50:56 pmBTW: Any news on an MXO3 or is MXO4 going to be the bottom of the line?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 01:51:42 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on December 12, 2023, 11:26:06 pmHello,In the Specifications of MXO 5 underMemory segmentation states, among other things, that:number of segments: 2113record length: 1 Gpointstotal memory: 2113.000 GpointsIs that really correct? Then there should be 4 TB of storage.Best regardsegonotto

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:48:53 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on December 13, 2023, 01:51:42 amThanks to you and the other posters for mentioning this. We just updated the spec sheet and will be posting it to the website soon.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:53:57 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 13, 2023, 12:07:11 amAt the MXO4 launch I think we publicly stated that new scope development will be leveraging the MXO architecture and our custom high-performance ASIC (which is what makes a lot of the MXO's performance / unique features possible).That said, I'm afraid I can't comment specifically on any of our upcoming scope models. Sorry!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 10:04:00 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 12:04:10 amThe MXO5 can do 45,000 FFTs / sec on up to four spectrum displays simultaneously, each with different settings (center, span, ref level, etc.)Note too that unlike most (all?) other scopes, the time and frequency domain settings are independent. For example, you can change the span, etc. without this changing the (time domain) acquisition settings.Are you saying the Rigol DHO800 can do something like that? Sorry if I misunderstood

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 10:58:25 am
content: I don't think he meant to compare FFT specs, certainly not with the MXO5.But just pointing that more than 1 FFT is standard even in bottom of the barrel 'scopes. At least 2 is actually quite handy to have. MXO4 should have 4, but 2 is a bare-minimum.I don't know much about the MXO5, but have watched quite a few videos about the MXO4 and was talking last week with a friend that has taken a course offered by his company with MXO4 scopes. He is quite impressed with it, and so am I, but these kind of arbitrary limitations beg a bit of questioning, at the very least.Edit: as per your las post FFT specs and screenshot, I don't think any budget oscilloscope is going to come close anytime soon. That is actually quite impressive.

author: KrzysztofB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 11:54:45 am
content: I have Tek5B available if you have any questions.Personally would prefer MXO4/5 but I like it runs on Windows.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:12:10 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 12:04:10 amYes, it is a separate function (not under "Math")

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: Antonio90 on December 13, 2023, 10:58:25 amThanks! Yes, you're completely right in that FFT has become a "standard" function even in hobbyist / entry level scopes (I refuse to call anyone's product "bottom of the barrel")About a decade ago R&S entered the (very crowded and very competitive) scope market, and one of our strengths from the beginning has been FFT / spectrum analysis -- something we're very, very familiar with.I'm not going to claim that our scopes do all things better than all other scopes (because that's simply not true), but I do honestly believe that the FFT / spectrum analysis on the MXO series oscilloscopes is the best in the industry.My personal feeling is that as FFT gets pushed down to hobbyist / entry level scopes, more oscilloscope users will begin to understand and appreciate both how useful FFT is as well as why FFT performance is important. It's one of those things you don't realize you need until you try it, and then you wonder how you ever got anything done without it(Edit: our waveform update rate is, objectively measured, also the best in the industry)

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:54:36 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on December 13, 2023, 12:22:02 pmMaybe I'll get to try one, sometime. It also has a really low noise front-end. I recall MarcoReps doing reference noise measurements directly on the scope with some averaging (or was it Sahriar?).It is really an awesome oscilloscope. I guess I just don't understand market segmentation, particularly at those levels. Either that or I'm spoiled by "feature overload" and undervalue feature polish and robustness. It's a hallmark of the novice in almost every area.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 06:18:33 pm
content: I find the spectrum analysis is turned on more often than not when the overhead is so low. It sometimes feels wrong not turning it on.I was using the MXO 4 today, when working on an isolated amplifier project. Sometimes I won't even need to apply cursors or measurements to the time-domain view, nor tweak the display in the time domain view, because I can readily see the issues in detail in the spectrum view instead, in fact things that I would never have seen otherwise.The detail becomes mesmerizing sometimes (there's 100 Hz resolution bandwidth set in the display in the attached screenshot, and the update rate is rapid, I can see intermittent signals coming and going (and it is possible to overlay the usual max hold trace and so on of course).I can imagine the multiple spectrum analyses on the MXO 5 will benefit all sorts of development work, including EMC testing where you could view the radiated and conducted emissions simultaneously. Also as yet unimaginable use-cases as customers get it into their hands over time. I wonder if some customers might just use the MXO 5 as purely a spectrum analyzer for monitoring purposes, if the specs meet their needs. At one lab, there were a load of Keysight spectrum analyzers, one per rack, that were being used for monitoring a specific part of a solution (it was replicating a customer scenario that I wasn't involved in at the time, so I didn't know the detail). An MXO 5 shared across the racks back then could have reduced the cost, plus provided a large operations centre style display over HDMI.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on December 13, 2023, 09:53:57 amThat's a pity, because it would be really interesting to know whether there will be something "underneath", e.g. as a successor to the RTB2000/3000 series.I like the MXO4, both from a distance and by sight.But a little over 9000€ (incl. VAT), that's a bit much for me too (that wouldn't be impossible, but then I'll have to be alone and eat packet soup indefinitely).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 09:37:39 pmYes and no. Problem is that when you starting adding options like protocol decoding and MSO, you quickly end up in the price range for the bundle with all options including 1.5GHz bandwidth. I don't need the 1.5GHz so a lower end model would suit me better feature and price wise.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:48:44 pm
content: When I buy a scope for work, I also buy the options I need - it doesn't hurt me to pay for them.For at home...Well....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 09:48:44 pmYou just get a lower bonus at the end of the yearBut likely your employer likes to see an ROI on the expense.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 10:00:41 pm
content: Well, to be honest, I only needed the options for development, so I only needed to equip 2 scopes with them.When I submitted the investment request for 2 Lecroys, which said 42% discount, I was still the hero - even though they still cost 26000... Everything is relative.

author: Swirve
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 11:56:39 am
content: Thanks for the input. As I guessed no one really have hands on experience in comparing the three scopes. Actually I do have the MXO5 on my bench and have started evaluating it, looking very promising so far! We do have a couple of HDO6140A, and if the only difference to 6000B is the bigger screen this doesn't give much.. But me being new in the company I haven't had time to play with the lecroy scopes. Also borrowed the power-rail probe, which together with the excellent spectrum is a great tool to evaluate noise on power rails.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 09:53:42 am
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on December 13, 2023, 09:48:53 amHello,If I understand the new spec sheet correctly, 4 GB is available for segmented memory. So exactly the same as the RTA4000.Or does that apply to each channel?Best regardsegonotto

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2024, 10:21:15 am
content: Just an FYI: the MXO5C (compact) was launched todayhttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-mxo-5c-oscilloscope_334265.htmlSame scope, just smaller form factor. Also available in 4 or 8 channel models

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2024, 01:48:45 pm
content: Nice status display on that front panel!This instrument would be great for permanent testbeds too, monitoring signals from one or more racks, to an attached monitor. At one workplace we ended up using a dedicated spectrum analyzer per rack, just for monitoring purposes. Nice that there's the potential with such types of test beds, to use the multiple spectrum capability of the MXO 5 to share it across several racks (if the signals are within the bandwidth of course).

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2024, 01:53:12 am
content: Front-up: I'll never buy that scope, not because it's not good (it probablyis), but because it's way out of the hobby league - and Iknowthat and while I understand that humans, once triggered, just love to discuss about "things in another galaxy" I alsoknowthat all the matters, facts, and "facts" discussed here are of no, none, nada practical concern to (certainly not only) me.If this was a discussion in real life I'd probably jokingly complain to the R&S guy "what? Only 500 Mpts/ch? Come back again once you have a scope with >= 50 Gpts/ch!"What I see here basically is just a MXO4.2. Some more of this, some more of that, a faster processor, yada,yada, but at the end of the day I just see a scope thatmakes better useof R&S' ASIC. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it also is not like we finally could fly to the next star, like "a new era".And I'm amazed yet again how happily (almost) everyone accepts the usual BS. Example: If an ADC does 12 bits that doesn't mean that you actually get 12 bits because at the end of the daymeasuring, as opposed to guesstimating, means ENOB, and that is more like 9 bits - if you are very lucky and using alowsampling rate. Yes, averaging helpsifsome conditions are met, e.g. the thing you measure is repetitive. But still 12 bits is the limits.Beyond that one finds oneself in BS territory, or in polite marketing lingo in math/statistics territory. Allow me to introduce you the 5 cats in my neighborhood. I know their precise size: 34.567 cm. OK, granted, not even a single one of them actually is 34.567 cm long, one, a kitten, easily and cozily fits in my hand while it's (likely) father is well over 50 cm long. Of bloody course we all like precision, accuracy, and high resolution, but let us not forget what it's all about: measuring that is, obtaining quantitative information about something physical!See also: the miracle of 6.5, 7.5, and 8.5 multimeters with single or even 2 digit ppM measurement certainty (and, of bloody course, hardly any of them actually is beyond x.3 digits. In fact, some of the "very best of the best" actually are very close to x.0 digits ...).I'll end with (surprise!) kudos to R&S because AFAIK they stopped at 5 3/4 digits. I may be wrong but my guess is that some of their engineers back then said "Nope. We don't take part in the BS-your-customers game!".Btw. does R&S also sell the MXO5 in six-packs? I'm asking because buying a scope for 60 k€ + VAT isn't worth to leave the house *g

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2024, 03:18:03 am
content: Quote from: moerm on May 16, 2024, 01:53:12 amWhat makes you think people don't know that? No-one normal cares about a number '12', they care about actually using 'scopes in real-life scenarios, to see the benefit (or lack of) for real applications. There's a whole thread concerning that with a different (lower-cost) 12-bit 'scope.Those who want to wait around for 12 to mean what you want it to mean, can knock themselves out, meanwhile, the normal world will still try out the instruments, and if there is no improvement, or if performance is worse, or is sluggish in response, then people won't buy it - that's what forums are good at, sharing the feedback.You actually have zero useful feedback in that long comment; everyone knows the 12 doesn't indicate ENOB. You also didn't get the architecture right; it's not just a faster processor; it's doubled-up silicon, there are two multi-core processors.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2024, 02:54:30 am
content: The real scandal is how many scopes they keep releasing that aren't the MXO6, which is the one I want. At this rate, they are going to release the MXO7 and MXO8, then loop back to do a prequel trilogy with MXO1, 2, and 3, and then they will start into the low profile version of each of those, and then an 8 channel version of each of those, and then a dedicated logic analyzer RF hybrid thing, and by now it's 2050 and we all have flying cars, and the thread is called "Which entry level 16 bit oscilloscope should I buy," andthenthe MXO6 comes out.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2024, 09:53:33 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on May 17, 2024, 02:54:30 am(laughs) Point taken. Our current "6" series scope is the RTO6, which is no slouch:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-rto6-oscilloscope_63493-1079745.htmlI hope you don't mind me using the "prequel trilogy" comment internally - most of our scope team would absolutelylovethat reference

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2024, 02:25:02 pm
content: Ha, go for it! The RTO6 is a beauty, but I believe it uses the "Ooma" ADCs. These are some of the best 8b converters to ever be put in a scope -- spurious is excellent, they can beat certain 10b converters at high frequency ENOB, and the R&S "HD Mode" does an atypically good job of trading speed for bit depth -- but I already have a RTO scope on my desk, so if I am spending this much on an upgrade I am looking for a new analog front end as well. That's why I am eagerly awaiting the MXO6. Of course, at this price tier my timing and choices are partly driven by external requirements, so who knows how it will actually come down, but I can at least lust over the brochures

author: ddrl46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 06:48:06 pm
content: While reading over the specifications of the scopes in the MXO series I noticed that the trigger sensitivity specification seems to be rather optimistic in comparison with other oscilloscopes. Or has Rohde & Schwarz perhaps changed their interpretation of trigger sensitivity since the RTB / RTA series?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 07:06:50 pm
content: I'd say it is very overly optimistic because there will be more noise than 0.0001 division for sure. I think somebody took the minimum hysteresis setting and forgot about noise.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 10:19:49 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on May 15, 2024, 10:21:15 amI just got the marketing email today. Can you comment publicly on pricing? This looks like the best headless scope on the market at the moment!

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 09:33:51 am
content: Quote from: nidlaX on May 30, 2024, 10:19:49 pmBase model pricing is available on our website, and you can also "build your MXO5C" and then click a button to get a quotehttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-mxo-5c-oscilloscope_334265.html

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 07:56:53 am
content: Hello,Shahriar takes a look at the Rohde & Schwarz MXO-5 Series, their first 8-Channel oscilloscope.Best regardsegonotto

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 12:15:53 pm
content: FYI, a key tidbit from that video, in case you decide not to watch it: they finally released the Zone Trigger function in the latest firmware update (for both MXO5 and MXO4)!Edit: from watching the rest of the video, it looks like the Zone Trigger is really powerful, more so than the one in e.g. the Keysight 3000X/4000X series. (And that was already a useful feature!)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 01:59:37 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 24, 2024, 12:15:53 pmFrom practical standpoint, biggest advantage is number of zones (most scopes have 2). Non rectangular zones are edge case, choosing logical operation is useful sometimes but you must pay attention what you want to accomplish. All in all, nice development. It took almost 2 years though... But at least now looks good.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2024, 12:03:58 pm
content: Non-rectangular is exotic, sure. But the thing that is really interesting is that you can do a zone triggeron the spectrum analyzer. I don’t think the Keysight 3000X/4000X can do that. That opens up some really interesting frequency-domain triggers.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2024, 01:10:13 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 25, 2024, 12:03:58 pmThatisinteresting. That is called Frequency Mask Triggering in SA parlance.And no M.Z. IV scopes can do, in fact not many at all can do that. That is full blown mixed domain function.What would be interesting to see is what is POI (probability of intercept) for that function..

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2024, 01:17:33 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 25, 2024, 01:10:13 pmI haven’t a clue. (I have zero experience with “real” SA’s, I’ve only ever used the FFT or SA feature in oscilloscopes.) If there’s a simple way to test it, lemme know how and I’ll try it out on the MXO4 at work.I suppose I’m not surprised that it’s R&S that added this to a DSO, given their STRONG background in RF test gear like SAs.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2024, 03:04:38 pm
content: The ability to do a "zone trigger" on a FFT goes way back on the RTO/RTE instruments: you could add frequency zones to the mask test and set the action to stop/record. It would only apply to waveforms that the regular trigger had already decided to capture so the POI wasn't in the same league as an RTSA, but at the same time the R&S scopes can do so many hardware-accelerated waveform captures and FFTs that in practice it usually worked so long as you weren't hunting the rarest of events. The MXO4/5 are multiples stronger on the waveform/FFT front so I expect them to be even stronger in this regard, but still not in a position to offer RTSA-competitive POIs. Again, in practice this is often not an issue -- as you saw in Shahriar's video, you can pretty aggressively filter with the zones and still get decent update rates if the event is decently repetitivehttps://youtu.be/EHEXDHxzSB0?t=2278I've been lobbying for true RTSA zone triggers for years, because as we know from Deep Voice Guy, R&S know how to do them (1) but it turns out there might have been a reason for R&S's reticence to port over the RTSA features to the scopes due to ongoing patent litigation. Apparently Tektronix boughtanotherpatent on recording I/Q samples on an oscilloscopehttps://patents.google.com/patent/US8675719https://patents.google.com/patent/US8521460R&S challenged this with some successhttps://developer.uspto.gov/ptab-web/#/search/documents?proceedingNumber=IPR2018-00643but the ruling left some of the claims standing because Tek was able to make the argument fly that this was totally different from their previous patent on account of having an ever so slightly different signal path. Thisprobablyleaves open the route to RTSA functionality so long as it shares the same signal path as time-domain waveforms, but A) I'm not sure if R&S wants to touch this, B) I am not sure the details of their private agreement with Tek, and C) even if they decided to go ahead with it they probably wouldn't have started until the litigation settled in 2020. Best case is that we see RTSA-like POI in the next few scopes. Worst case is they wait for the patents to expire and we don't see it for a decade, and while the POI isn't as good as it could have been it is good enough for many purposes. These R&S scopes arefast.(1)

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2024, 05:50:02 pm
content: Hey, it looks like the Tektronix patent on a Modulation Domain Trigger expires next year:https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1669764A1/en

author: mkissin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2024, 01:05:17 am
content: Interestingly, there's a bunch of new bundle offers for both the MXO4 and now also the MXO5 scopes, valid until March 31 2025.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/promotion/oscilloscopes-promotion_253927.htmlThe MXO5 ones aren't on the website for some reason, but they are in the PDF flyer.

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 05:41:53 pm
content: Hello,I have some questions regarding the maximum input voltage for the 1 MOhm input of the MXO5.The spec sheet states that the maximum allowable voltage of 300 Vrms with 20 db/decade derates to 5 Vrms greater than or equal to 250khz.At 1 MOhm with RT-ZP11 passive Probe for derating see RT-Zxx Standard Probes Specifications (PD 36.07.3851.22). The ZP11 is not (yet?) included in the version available to me, so I consulted the user manual for the ZP11.As best I could from the small voltage derating diagram in the manual, I transferred the values for the ZP11 (orange color) and for the MXO5 (red color), as I understood the spec sheet, into a diagram on double logarithmic paper.If it is true that only a maximum of 5 Vrms may be applied to the input of the MXO5 above 250 kHz, a measurement up to 300 Vrms would only be possible up to a maximum of 50 kHz with the ZP11 with a divider ratio of 10:1 and only a maximum of 50 Vrms would be permissible above 250 KHz, even if the probe itself can withstand more than 50 Vrms up to 25 MHz.Compared to other oscilloscopes, this seems very low to me.For comparison, I have also drawn the derating curves of the Tektronix 5 B Series (blue color) and the Batronix Magnova (green color) according to the specifications in the spec sheets.For the Keysight HD3 (gray dashed line), the spec sheet only states that a maximum of 135 Vrms may be applied to the 1 MOhm input, without providing any information on the derating curve with increasing frequency. Is it really possible that this device can handle the full 135 Vrms over the entire frequency range?I would be delighted if someone here could help me to understand this, because of course I don't want to blow the front end of my MXO5 under any circumstances.Best RegardsBernd

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 07:07:05 pm
content: Hello,I don't understand the “If it is true that only a maximum of 5 Vrms may be applied to the input of the MXO5 above 250 kHz, a measurement up to 300 Vrms would only be possible up to a maximum of 50 kHz with the ZP11 with a divider ratio of 10:1 and only a maximum of 50 Vrms would be permissible above 250 KHz, even if the probe itself can withstand more than 50 Vrms up to 25 MHz.”According to the data sheet of the R&S ® RT-ZP11 that I have, you can measure up to 400 V rms sine wave if the signal is below 500 kHz.With a 10 MHz sine wave, 80 V rms is still permitted.With a 100 MHz sine wave, 20 V rms is still permitted.With a 500 MHz sine wave, 10 V rms is still permitted.It must be remembered that the impedance falls with the frequency.At 1 MHz sine wave you have about 10 kOhm.At a 10 MHz sine wave you have about 1 kOhm.At 100 MHz sine you have about 100 ohms.At 1 GHz sine you have about 10 ohms.So with a sine wave with 5 V rms and 1 GHz you have a current of about 0.5 A rmsBest regardsegonotto

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 08:29:46 pm
content: Hello egonotto,thank you for your quick reply.I have added the output voltage curve of the ZP11 (black line) in the diagram. In each case 1/10 of the input voltage (upper orange line).What I meant was that between about 32 kHz and 25 MHz the permissible input voltage for the ZP11 cannot be used, because otherwise the output voltage of the ZP11 would be higher than the permissible input voltage on the MXO5.For example, at 1 MHz, approx. 330 Vrms may be applied to the input of the ZP11.As I understand it, that would be 33 Vrms at the output. According to the data sheet, however, the MXO5 can only handle 5 Vrms at 1 MHz. So at 1 MHz you should not apply more than 50 Vrms to the input of the ZP11 when it ist connected to the MXO5.Unfortunately, there is no impedance-frequency diagram for the oscilloscope, so I have compared the voltage derating curves in my diagram.What surprises me is that the derating curve goes down so steeply, although the input capacitance of the MXO5 is lower than that of the other models:MXO5 12 pFTek 5B 13 pFMagnova 19 pFHD3 24 pFThe picture below in post #150 shows the original derating curve from the ZP11 manual.Best RegardsBernd

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 09:15:52 pm
content: Hello,from datasheet of MXO5: "300 V (RMS), 400 V (V p ),derates at 20 dB/decade to 5 V (RMS) above 250 kHz"So you can estimate:300 V rms for sine below 250 kHz.30 V rms for sine below 2.50 MHz.15 V rms for sine below 5 MHz.7.5 V rms for sine below 10 MHz?5 V rms for sine over 25 MHz.At 10 MHz it could be a bit tight. However, since the 20 dB/decade between 2.5 MHz and 25 MHz does not quite apply (at 25 MHz only 3 V rms would be allowed for a sine wave, but they allow 5 V rms).So I wouldn't worry about that. As 5 V rms is always permitted.The reason for derating is as follows. As the impedance decreases with increasing frequency, the current increases.For example, when using the R&S ® RT-ZP11, the current is lower at a sine wave of 10 MHz and 90 V rms than at 100 MHz and 20 V rms.But if you still have concerns, you can ask Rohde & Schwarz to be sure.Best regardsegonotto

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2025, 10:24:20 pm
content: Hello,Thanks again for the explanations.Now I know where my misunderstanding was. I had understood the information in the data sheet to mean that the 5 Vrms limit was already reached at 250 kHz.You are right. The derating only starts at 250 kHz and then goes down at 20 db/decade until it reaches the 5 Vrms limit at approx. 15 MHz.I have drawn a new line with the corrected values in the attached diagram.Best RegardsBernd

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 05:57:40 pm
content: Hello,here are a few pictures of the Leo Bodnar fast pulser LBE-1322 on MXO5 at 10 MHZ.First at 2 GHz bandwidth at 50 Ohm. With bandwidth = 0.45/risetime, the measured risetime of 214 ps results in a bandwidth of approx. 2.1 GHz.Then at 1 MOhm at 700 MHz bandwidth. With a measured risetime of approx. 1.5 ns, the calculated bandwidth is now only 300 MHz.Best RegardsBernd

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 02:34:06 am
content: Hello,Bernd wrote: "Then at 1 MOhm at 700 MHz bandwidth. With a measured risetime of approx. 1.5 ns, the calculated bandwidth is now only 300 MHz."If the source has 50 ohms and the input of the oscilloscope has 1 Mohm || 10 pF then the input impedance at 320 MHz is approximately 50 ohms. This corresponds to a low pass of less than 300 MHz. This is therefore compatible with the 700Mz bandwidth of the oscilloscope.Best regardsegonotto

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2025, 09:14:05 pm
content: Hello egonotto,thank you for your explanation of the connection.With another oscilloscope with 17 pF input capacitance, the result was accordingly a risetime of approx. 2.3 ns.I have attached a screenshot where the pulser is connected to the input at 1 MOhm via a 50 Ohm feed-through terminator. The measured risetime is now 507 ps, which corresponds to a bandwidth of 887 MHz according to the above formula.Best RegardsBernd

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 06:25:05 pm
content: Hello,here are a few pictures with the probes R&S ZP11 (700 MHz) and the Testec TT-HF 612RA (500 MHz) on the Bodnar Pulser LBE-1322 at 10 MHz, 1 Vpp.The connection to the LBE-1322is established with a Telegärtner SMA-BNC adapter and the 2.5 mm Testec BNC adapter.As can be seen in Fig. 1, the factory compensation of the ZP11 can still be improved somewhat.Figure 2 shows the comparison of the ZP11 with the TT-HF 612RA. The compensation on the TT-HF is a compromise between the straightest possible roof on the rectangle and overshooting.Is it possible that the dents in the roof at 12 or 13 ns are caused by reflections at the input of the oscilloscope? With a caliper length of 1.3 m and an assumed velocity factor of 0.65-0.67, this would be about right mathematically.13 ns x 0.29972m/ns x 0.67 / 2 = 1.305 mBest RegardsBernd

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 06:28:37 pm
content: Tell me where you live and when no one is usually at home....

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 07:11:51 pm
content: Even if you knew, you wouldn't stand a chance against the hungry cats guarding my test equipment.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 07:30:45 pm
content: You need to terminate Pulser with 50 Ω pass through terminator to have 25Ω source impedance..

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 08:23:41 pm
content: Hello 2N3055,I had done this a few days ago. At the Moment I only have a cheap Chinese feed through. So I don't know if the massive Overshoot is caused by the Terminator.Therfore I didn't post these pictures until now.I'm going to buy a better one. Not sure if I should buy the R&S HZ22 or spend the extra money for a Huber&Suhner one.But already with the cheap terminator an improvement in risetime with the ZP11 from 1.086 ns to 0.5268 ns visible.When I have the better terminator I'll repeat the measurement and post the results.Best RegardsBernd

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 08:53:55 pm
content: Tomorrow I'll try it with a BNC-T with a 50 Ohms termination resistor at one End and the Probes at the other End. Let's see what the results are then.

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 06:23:14 pm
content: Hello,Here are the results of the measurements with the two probes on the LBE-1322 with a BNC-Y and a 50 OHM terminating resistor on one leg.Figure 1 shows the diagram of the ZP11 with little overshoot and significant improvement in rise time compared to the direct connection.Figure 2 shows the diagram of the TT-HF 612RA with considerably more overshoot and also a smaller improvement in rise time compared to the ZP11 compared to the direct connection.Figure 3 shows the measurement curves of both probes in one diagram.Best RegardsBernd

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 04:14:21 pm
content: Hello,the Digikey package with the new Cal Test CT2944C-50 Feed Through Terminator (FTT) and an Amphenol RF 000-46650-51RFX 50 Ohm BNC Terminator Plug arrived today.I couldn't bring myself to buy the almost 100 euro more expensive Huber+Suhner 6701.01.B FTT, especially as the data sheets show no noticeable difference.The build quality of the Cal Test looks good to me, all contacts are gold plated, the VSWR is the same and the average power is significantly higher than that of the H+SFigure 1 shows the diagrams for the direct connection of the LBE-1322 to the input with 1 MOhm, as well as with an intermediate P57 FTT and CT2944C FTT.With the CT2944C the overshoot and undershoot is a little less, but considering that the P57 only costs 1/6 I find this very acceptable.Figure 3 shows the whole thing again with the ZP11.Here the differences in over- and undershooting are even smaller.My new Highflexx 7 cables are due to arrive tomorrow, so I'll do an FFT sweep with the two FTTs. Let's see if there are any significant differences.Best RegardsBernd

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 06:44:18 pm
content: Hello,here is an example of the XY display with the MXO5, which is only possible if an oscilloscope supports a math waveform as source for an axis in the XY diagram.The pictures show the hysteresis curve of the iron core of a Phywe experimental transformer as used in physics lessons in schools. The magnetic field strengthHis plotted on the X-axis and the magnetic flux densityBon the Y-axis. However, I have made the following simplifications.The magnetic field strengthHoutside the conductor results from the quotient of the current strength I and the field line circumference and has the SI unit A/m and is therefore proportional to the current in the primary coil of the transformer (channel 2 on the oscilloscope).H ~ IpThe magnetic flux densityBresults from the magnetic flux φ divided by the area of the single core. However, because the flux in the closed core is not so easy to measure, I use the relationship that the voltage induced in the secondary coil is proportional to the temporal change of the flux in the core, more precisely the first derivative of the flux φ with respect to timeU ~ dφ/dtIt follows that the flux φ is proportional to the integral of the secondary voltage over time. SI unit Vs.φ ~ ∫ U dtIn the XY diagram, the math waveform integral C1 (secondary voltage) + C4 is therefore displayed as the Y-axis. A DC offset is applied via C4 to center the diagram vertically. The diagram is therefore not theBHcurve known from textbooks but a φI curve, which also shows the effect as derived above.In order to drive the core into saturation even at low voltages and currents, I have lowered the frequency on the AC power supply to 12 Hz.Figure 1 shows the hysteresis curve at 80 Vrms sine wave voltage at 12 Hz. The distance between the intersection point of the curve and the zero point on the X-axis is a measure of the coercive field strengthHcand the distance between the intersection point on the Y-axis and the zero point is a measure of the remanenceBr.Figure 4 shows the effect with a rectangular voltage of 40 Vrms and 12 Hz on the primary side. As can be seen, the core saturates already at 40 Vrms.Best RegardsBernd

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 04:22:59 pm
content: Hello,The new firmware version 2.6.2.4 includes a practical new feature: measurement result lines.As an example, I have attached a screenshot from the Bodnar Pulser, where the result lines show exactly where the measurements are taken.Best RegardsBernd

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 05:02:26 pm
content: Quote from: Bernd_2 on August 19, 2025, 04:22:59 pmIt was long overdue time. Those are called measurement cursors and many other scopes have it for a long time. Even some that cost less than 500€They are very useful and are good usability improvement for the users.It is nice to see R&S is listening.

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 05:26:41 pm
content: Yes, I am familiar with this from my Siglent SDS2000X Plus, where the source for a cursor can be a measurement.On the MXO5, the result lines are located in the measurement setup and are completely independent of the four possible cursor sets.Unlike the SDS2000X Plus, the cursors on the MXO5 do not have a measurement as source.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 05:54:31 pm
content: Quote from: Bernd_2 on August 19, 2025, 05:26:41 pmMeasuremnt cursors can also be set from measurements. Higher models also have multiple cursor sets.But that is not important. My point is that, simple as it is, this is very useful thing and you will enjoy it.Best,Sinisa

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 06:14:27 pm
content: Thank you Siniša,since it is implemented I use it for almost every measurement.BestBernd

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 09:01:19 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 19, 2025, 05:02:26 pmOh, we're listening! There's just a limit as to how much new functionality we can fit in each release. If you saw our roadmap (and no, I can't share - sorry!), you would see that we have a LOT more coming

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 09:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on August 19, 2025, 09:01:19 pmShame, that roadmap would be interesting reading...But no surprise there. Other guys have their roadmaps too.. So you need to look into the future all the time.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 09:24:08 pm
content: If you have too much on your plate at once, you won't get anything done.Or you'll get it done very slowly.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2025, 12:27:06 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 19, 2025, 09:24:08 pmI think that's happening anyway.

author: Bernd_2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2025, 06:27:38 pm
content: Hello,I may have a point for the roadmap here.Either it's a bug in the firmware or I'm doing something wrong when trying to set the prefix for Date/Time to Europe.When I open the menu, the setting is set to Africa.I change it to Europe,press Apply,and suddenly it's back to Africa.Best RegardsBernd

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2025, 09:18:50 pm
content: Quote from: Bernd_2 on August 19, 2025, 04:22:59 pmIndeed. If anything, it's kinda shocking that it took this long, given that my freaking $400 Rigol from 10 years ago did this. The MXO implementation also slows down the waveform rate a lot; I hope that a future update moves this to hardware acceleration (as they did with XY mode). One of the things I love about the LeCroy I have at work alongside the MXO4 is the measurement result lines that keep up with the waveform display.