Electronics at the local library. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 08:05:36 pm
content: How many books on basic electronics are available at your local library?While I was waiting for somebody I walked into our local one (town of 29,000 people) and there was... zero.Even after checking the catalogue for issued books. Over the entire district (80,000 people) there was one: 'Electronics in easy steps' by Bill MantovaniWow - Electronics really has become the magic everybody uses all the time, but that nobody cares about.(Yes, I know that there are plenty of internet resources to learn from, but there are also internet resources for Cooking, Self Help and Travel Guides, and most other non-fiction topics - and libraries include them in their catalogues)

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 08:15:46 pm
content: Question:Does your local library have a procedure for patrons to request books to be added to the collection?In my long-distant youth, I remember both the main library and my neighborhood public library (city of population 100,000) having lots of books in Dewey classification 621.384.I recognize that recent trends in public libraries seem to think people want only things other than books, despite the etymology.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 08:19:25 pm
content: Answer: almost none. (Small town library, pretty good for its size but limited.)However, there is this thing called "interlibrary loan" where you can request a book from another library, either in the same region or even anywhere in the country. You could try that; find someone knowledgeable and helpful at the library who can help you track down the books you want.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 08:40:23 pm
content: Have you seen our local library?

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 09:15:27 pm
content: Butbutbut ... I want to make a phone call!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 09:33:58 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on March 16, 2025, 09:15:27 pmA propos pay phones, this is a fascinating watch:

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 09:35:13 pm
content: There are NO electronics books at the local library. I tried to rebuild the technical section in honor of a HS friend who died of cancer at 59, 12 years ago.I offered a number of good books. Most were rejected and those accepted discarded later. I proposed to raise several thousand USD to rebuild the collection, but they were completely unwilling to allow technical books to displace romance novels. My initial focus was Arduino books.I was told by the non-fiction librarian, “You can’t learn electronics from a book. You have to go to college for that.’” Exact words. My response was probably not well received when I stated that my dead friend, a classmate and I had gotten our ham licenses based on the library resources in the 1960s. With a BA in English lit, I can be *very* unpleasant faced with an idiot. All said very politely, but with a *very* sharp edge.I reviewed the technical section recently. Nothing at all. No math, no physical science or engineering. Just opinion “science”.My personal technical library is 5000+ volumes. That does not include the books from a very aggressive BA in literature. I was blowing through 5-6 books a week. Half assigned for courses and half because I heard about the book and wanted to read it.The major issue is the, “I’ll look that up on the Internet if I need to know about that.” attitude. You only understand things in the context of what you already know. If a person has no contextual knowledge it renders the person incapable of learning anything.So it’s become a chicken and egg problem. With no books, there is no demand and with no demand there are no books.Ultimately I gave up after a year or so of effort. Sadly, there is NO cure for stupidity.Reg

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 10:15:00 pm
content: This is why I live in a large city:Response to keyword search for "electronics" at the Chicago Public Library system website --https://chipublib.bibliocommons.com/v2/search?query=electronics&searchType=smartThe 1977 results value is somewhat inflated, as they include serials, government documents, and subjects such as electronics recycling, but otherwise it is an impressive list, courtesy of taxpayers like me.(My personal library includes many an ancient volume of forgotten lore. The University of Chicago library has much more, and I believe is accessible through inter-library loan.)

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 10:30:15 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on March 16, 2025, 09:35:13 pmOuch!QuoteBook: "oh this science and math is so beautiful! The wonder! The majesty!" - so show me how to calculate it!

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 10:54:36 pm
content: You can find analogous situations in the ebook world and in bookstores.My local library serves an area with a population of a couple hundred thousand. And does have tens of thousands of ebooks. But when I checked a couple of years ago, only one book with an "engineering" search tag. A very interesting book on the history and methods for manufacturing wooden toothpicks. But hardly enough to get anyone up to speed even at a surface level in a technical field.There are at least a dozen bookstores in the area. One from a large national chain. A few others that handle new books and the majority are used book venues. Most of them have inventories measured in the thousands to tens of thousands. And none have more than a handful on technical subjects, even giving popularizations about science and engineering the benefit of the doubt and including them. There are usually a dozen or more "math books', topping out at algebra or trigonometry. Usually a few shallow volumes on astronomy. And sometimes a few shallow books on the life sciences.My wife finds the sections on her interests -quilting, crochet and sewing nearly as limited.What fills the shelves are romance, western, detective, war stories, spy stories, science-fiction, history and the like.The stores stocking actually makes sense. I am probably an extreme consumer of technical books. But my lifetime purchases are measured in the low hundreds. While I go through that much science fiction in a year or two.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 11:07:58 pm
content: Ebay is the new library.The used book sellers (Betterworldbooks, etc) just scoop up all the discarded library books and list them for seriously low prices. At less than $5 a book you can build a solid technical library in no time, and you own the books. This includes text books that used to cost many hundreds of dollars. Old editions are often times just as good as the newer ones, especially if it was a university text that went through a few revisions just to make everyone upgrade.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 11:48:40 pm
content: For finding books for sale online across all vendors, not just eBay, Amazon, Abebooks, etc., useBookFinder(if you don't already know about this service).

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 09:48:18 pm
content: Not a lot of help for a kid with very little money. Buy the books and he can’t afford the parts. Buy the parts and he can’t get the books to explain how to use them.Makes my blood boil.Reg

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 09:56:28 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on March 17, 2025, 09:48:18 pmTell me about it.I would love to get my hands on Horowitz & Hill's "x-chapters". Looking it up on BookFinder, I see the least expensive copy is $65.70. Used.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:05:12 pm
content: Most US public libraries will do interlibrary loans, and many do so for free or a nominal cost. The systems for it are usually clunky and may mean filling out paper forms or talking to a librarian in person, and it's often slow, but if you aren't in a hurry it can be an easy way to get access to books you don't have locally. I've had good luck getting even relatively rare out of print books.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on March 16, 2025, 08:05:36 pmZero. My relo is a librarian. Our council's (population 47k) libraries don't want to increase the size of the physical collection, and they cull books after 180 days of not being borrowed. They're trying to get everyone onto ebooks. 90% of new books are fast-read fiction and disguised smut. The rest are biographies, stuff about life skills like cooking or learning how to use an ipad, left-wing stuff, things for alphabet people and indigenous Australians. I thought it would be a classy thing to donate a few copies of my own books, which I did - and a year later they went out in the cull.You should be able to petition the library to stock certain books if you can come up with some justification for them spending your rates on it, however be aware they'll probably get culled anyway unless you go in and borrow them once every few months.I managed to get us a Silicon Chip subscription for a few years, but again nobody borrowed it so they were cancelled.The general answer to any enquiry is ebooks or internet, or go away I'm busy doing something in the back office.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:53:08 pm
content: My local library has a makerspace, where they have 3D printers, and run a monthly Arduino coding club.A handful of Arduino related electronics books are available, but nothing about general electronics (if you wanted to learn about RLC filters, opamps, transistors, etc).The local library once had a subscription to Silicon Chip magazine, but either someone is borrowing the latest issues, or they've abandoned their subscription (the latest issues being circa 2023).

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 01:08:19 am
content: Quote from: johnboxall on March 17, 2025, 11:52:05 pmThat's scandalous, bordering on criminal in my book.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 02:54:25 am
content: um.. for all the people that seem to be outraged here that there are zero options for people to get access to electronics texts.. Give this a shot. Pick some textbook title, and put that in google followed by "pdf".

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 03:28:00 am
content: Yikes; for one thing, the entireThe Art of Electronicsis availablehere.Wonder if it's legit or pirated? In any case, humongous (1,225 pages).

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 03:40:07 am
content: Please note that the more people pirate books, the less inclined people will be to write them.If you do pirate a book and find it of use, please consider buying a copy.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 04:06:21 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on March 18, 2025, 02:54:25 am"filetype:pdf" is better in my experience. There are plenty of recipes, movies, travel sites and gardening sites are available online too, but those topics are still valued enough to be held in the catalogues as a community resource.It's not access to the texts that is what I was feeling, but it is that library are a communities knowledge, and reflected the interests, aspirations and values of the community they serve.For me it seems that actual technical knowledge (across many areas) is no longer valued. The library for nearly 80,000 people has (amongst other things):5950 Books of "Detective and Mystery" Fiction1781 Cookbooks1100 DVDs454 Travel guides460 Gardening books9 Ukulele self instruction booksAnd a single adult non-fiction book for Electronics. Not even a generic Arduino book.If each book is on average 1.2cm thick that is 89.25m of of shelves for detective fiction 26.72m for cookbooks, and less than 0.02m for Electronics.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 05:18:19 am
content: Just to give you an idea how far electronics has fallen as an area of interest or a hobby, I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area up until a while ago. Which area includes Silicon Valley, home to many electronics companies.When I lived there in the 2000s there were a fair number of electronics stores (besides Radio Shack) where you could walk in and buy lots of stuff.When I left, almost all of them were gone. Out of business. History. Besides Jameco (which is still there in Belmont) and San Mateo Electronics on the Peninsula and maybe one other store in the South Bay (Silicon Valley), I don't think there was a single one left. Pretty pitiful.If it's that bad there I can only imagine what a desert it is in other less-populated or less technologized places.

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 11:22:06 am
content: Might it just be that "the internet" is the library of today?We need look no further than this forum, and the content that Dave et al produce, to see just how many lifetimes of information that it hosts for the average hobbyist.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 12:23:49 am
content: Inter library loan only works if a library has the book and is willing to lend it. Good luck getting a major reference that is out of print and there are only a dozen copies still extant. “Come to our reading room.” You might be able to get scans of a few pages, but not the whole book.This not important for a hobbyist, but critical for research scientists and engineers. Order of magnitude guess is my library would cost more to replace than my house and all the other contents. Quite a few could never be replaced as anyone who has a copy is not selling it.How well will the “library of the internet” fare in an EMP? Electronics has not existed long enough to observe more than a single large scale coronal event. So no one has any idea of frequency or size range. And no one has used a nuke in space to generate an EMP as part of a military campaign.Reg

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 12:45:14 am
content: My local library service in suburban Melbourne has about a dozen books on electronics and a couple on Raspberry Pi and 3 more on Arduino. Melbourne is broken up into several local council areas and I can request a book be transferred from one of about 6 libraries within my area to the one nearest me.I can, and have requested the library buy new books on several occasions. I doubt they would buy the Art of Electronics but I wouldn't ask for them to buy such a niche interest book. The last book they bought at my request was Liz Cheney's "Oath and Honor". Also perhaps a niche interest book.

author: tomato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 04:15:13 pm
content: The reality is that libraries have limited budgets, and technical books are expensive and they appeal to a very limited number of library patrons. It's not crazy for libraries to allocate their resources elsewhere.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 05:54:08 pm
content: Libraries philosophically have at least three purposes. Entertainment, education and preservation of knowledge. Here in the US they are heavily weighted towards the first, and most public libraries have little or no interest in the latter. It is unlikely that those relative weights will change in my lifetime, but I would like to see more thought on how the allocation is spent. And recognize bang for the buck.In the entertainment market most of the materials are extremely ephemeral. A romance novel, crime expose, popular music disk or dvd has a life of a few years at best. The library systems I am exposed to (those where I and my relatives live) discard hundreds annually once they have had their time in the sun. Many technical books have far longer lives. Few are irrelevant after a decade. Many are still relevant after many decades. While they cost five to ten times as much as the entertainment category, they needn't be discarded as the fad fades. The only cost is shelf space, which while important, isn't as relevant. Particularly in the era of ebooks.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 08:19:58 pm
content: What you wrote sounds reasonable to me; can't say it's provable, but certainly seems plausible.My local library is actually pretty good for a small town. I'm thinking maybe I should request that they buy a technical book (electronics, natch) or three, see what they say about that. I've requested books from them before (non-technical, but certainly not romance novels!) which they've actually acquired.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 09:39:50 pm
content: If I filter by books, topic electronics, 135 results:https://vpl.bibliocommons.com/v2/search?query=electronics&searchType=keyword&sort=ugc_rating&f_FORMAT=BK&f_TOPIC_HEADINGS=Electronicsthen there are another 100 listed in other categories like Digital, Engineering, etc.Quote from: Smokey on March 18, 2025, 02:54:25 amI think its less of an issue of being able to get the information, hopefully most of us here are capable of figuring that out. But good tip for those who don't know.Part of the complaint may be, if a child or anyone with less experience is browsing around in the library, and either has an interest in electronics or happens to come across it. That won't be possible.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 02:36:42 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 21, 2025, 09:39:50 pmLibraries have been the place where people who don't have computers go to use computers since computers existed.The number of kids these days that understand the internet but have no idea what a library is is significantly larger than the other way around. What you should really be worried about is that kids can't read any type of books anymoreIf you wanted to get into it, lets take the aforementioned kid-whos-excited-about-electroncs-but-doesnt-have-any-resources. It's not the information that's in short supply. It's components. There isn't a local place (like radio shack) that easily turns cash into parts. Obviously there are WAY more options for getting parts these days (from legit distributors like digikey to amazon), but you need a credit card. I guess you could take your cash to a grocery store and buy an amazon gift card and then turn the gift card into parts.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:46:07 pm
content: For those who use "interlibrary loan" systems to access books not at their local public library, the current administration has cut funding for state interlibrary programs.An example:https://southdakotasearchlight.com/2025/04/15/south-dakota-state-library-interlibrary-loan-federal-funding-fallout-courier-suspension/Obviously, in a sparsely-settled rural state such as South Dakota, one doesn't expect small-town libraries to have extensive book collections.Similarly, in Illinois, a very successful program is endangered:https://www.wcbu.org/local-news/2025-04-04/interlibrary-loan-program-a-top-concern-amid-looming-federal-library-funding-cutsToday's Chicago Tribune had a detailed article, but I think it's paywalled.The stated purpose of eliminating the "Institute of Museums and Library Services" Federal agency is "This restructure is a necessary step to fulfill that order and ensure hard-earned tax dollars are not diverted to discriminatory DEI initiatives or divisive, anti-American programming in our cultural institutions. These changes will strengthen IMLS’s ability to serve the American people with integrity and purpose.”My reading is that factual historical exhibits in museums that contradict official government-approved history as we approach the 250th anniversary of the Declaration must be eliminated.Elimination of ILL is collateral damage: when I was working, my common reaction to ill-thought-out drastic changes was "Whom did you ask?".

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 11:09:56 pm
content: I went into the local public library for the first time in years, a few years back. I was surprised that the were very few STEM books. There were lots of mind, body and spirit books.Later I went into Waterstone's in Portsmouth to buy a book on Python, to fill the time on the ferry to France. The computer section was a about three shelves. They did have a couple of books on Python. I'm sure 20 years ago it would have been 30 or 40 shelves of computer books. Again there were lots of hey wow titles about choosing personal crystals etc.Even bookshops close to universities are not what they were a few years back. Bookshops are not what they were.Amazon and the interweb have taken their toll.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 06:39:18 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on April 28, 2025, 11:09:56 pmI actually find that a good change, in many ways. I still do prefer dead tree books for many things... but so many of the computer books that filled those 30 or 40 shelves were so focused on the specific tech or fad of the week that they were destined to be so out of date as to be essentially kindling for the fireplace within years, if not months.There is a core of foundational topics around tech and computers that absolutely will stand the test of time, and I still buy those books in hardcopy, but for all the more disposable subjects I've switched over to ebook formats.

author: EC8010
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 09:41:41 am
content: Good grief, and I thought it was justourpoor library! There are perhaps ten books on electronics in our library, call it 0.4m. I've just measured my electronics books at 10.5m (excluding data books). As a child I would walk eight miles (there and back) to the big new library at Harrow civic centre. I've just looked up Harrow civic centre and find it's scheduled for demolition. That pretty well sums the situation up.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 10:48:34 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on April 29, 2025, 06:39:18 pmThe titles in the bookshop were mainly about using various applications and the internet for seniors. I found it depressingly dumbed down. They did have a cartoon style book on Python, which was surprisingly good, if not quite what I'd had in mind. I'd thought they'd have an O'Reilly book.OTOH in the old days, you could be spoilt for choice.I suppose these days, you find what seems to be the best book for what you are interested in on the web and look at the reviews. If it's out of print, it's usually easy to find. You order it from Amazon. Browsing had a charm though.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 11:25:58 am
content: Quote from: Zenith on April 30, 2025, 10:48:34 amBrowsing in a good bookshop is the best way of determining whether an individual books meets your needs. Searching is less optimal, partly because you are presented with a vast number of books that you can't assess properly in a useful timescale. No, the first half dozen pages doesn't indicate what the book is like 3/4 of the way through.I have once, and only once, had a store/shop card and account. That was 40 years ago, for Heffers in Cambridge, RIP. (Yes, there is stillonebookshop called Heffers (rather than half a dozen), and it is owned by another company.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 04:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on March 16, 2025, 09:35:13 pmYes, but in that college, what do they have you buy? Yes, a text **BOOK**! And, while the professor (you should be so lucky to get one, rather than a TA) will do stuff on the blackboard, you will get most of the knowledge out of the book!Jon

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 08:10:35 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 30, 2025, 11:25:58 amGeorges main store in Bristol was a huge rabbit warren of a place, but they had several other shops.https://suepurkiss.blogspot.com/2015/11/lament-for-lost-bookshops.htmlLears in Cardiff was pretty good. There were a load of bookshops around an area in London (Charing Cross Road?). Foyles springs to mind. Cambridge University Press had a shop in London, where I managed to bag something I was looking for. These days I could have ordered it on the web.Blackwells in Oxford was reckoned to be the ultimate. I've never visited it.I gather that Blackwells took over Georges, Lears and Heffers and probably others, in the 90s. The market changed and they sold them off. Heffers survives in a reduced form as a branch of Blackwells. Blackwells itself still seems to continue as the last man standing, but I have the impression it's a sort of agent of Amazon.Amazon and the web made the difference. The world changes.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 08:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on April 30, 2025, 08:10:35 pmAgreed. Not quite as good as Heffers, but still very good.QuoteNever went to Cardiff, back then. Cardiff has some tolerable second-hand bookshops in the Arcades, but diminished and not technical.London had a couple of nexuses (nexii?). Charing Cross Rd was famous (e.g. the book and movie about number 84, Foyles (ugh!), Forbidden Planet), with a few offshoots near UCL and the lamented Dark They Were and Golden Eyed down a back alley in Soho. The other one was The Modern Book Co in Paddington. Maybe not a coincidence that Lisle St, Tottenham Ct Rd and Edgware Rd were nearby.QuoteWas as good as Heffers, once you found the relevant underground cavern at the side, down the steps, round the corner.I haven't been to Heffers in >30 years. Last time I went to Blackwells it was good but not up to 80s standards. No surprise there.QuoteYeahA small bookshop with carefully curated content is still a delight, because you can spend an afternoonbrowsingthe cover of every book in the shop. That enables one of my favourite words and concepts: serendipity.Searchingis better on the net,providedyou know the title or author - which often isn't the case.A library ought to have the benefits of a small bookshop, with the added benefit of inter-library loans. But most of the technical content is on the web, iffyou can find it.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 10:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 30, 2025, 08:51:54 pmHow would you make any money out of a bricks and mortar shop like that? It would have to be in the right place for a start. They never existed so that people could nip in and browse.The second hand book business is another thing. A neighbour who retired early to take up the genteel occupation of selling second hand books and at one time had a shop, curses charity shops (thrift stores). The shop became a PITA. He still sells books on the interweb, but specialises in transport and local history.This is like the discussion about electronics surplus shops we knew and loved. They were a thing of their time.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 10:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on April 30, 2025, 10:08:00 pmAll good questions and points, but there are a number of small new bookshops popping up. The common characteristics seem to bea small shop unit the size of a couple of domestic living roomsrelatively affluent suburban high streetsa small number of booksbooks change frequently, so there is always a reason to go againSo if you want a specific book, they probably won't have it. But you can probably find something of interest there.Naturally I don't understand the economics.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 12:53:42 am
content: i was out and about yesterday in the next town (pop >200k)and there was a public library inside a shopping mallit looks like >10k sqft insidedozens of shelvesi was thinking great maybe i can see some stuff like ARRL? radio? ham?i went over to the 1 with 621.3xxzero electronicsmaybe they were all loaned outbut on the main category chart on the sidethere is zero electronics alsoim sure the dewey number was right ?the aliens have taken all of them electronics books ?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 02:51:17 am
content: 621.3xx is the correct Dewey classification

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 02:57:45 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 30, 2025, 08:51:54 pmMakes me miss the old days of Powell's in Portland, OR... they're still a quite nice bookstore, but they used to have a separate annex in its own building for technical books, and it was just the right size to have a good selection of what you might want while still being amenable to exactly that.