Dowsing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:04:06 pm
content: If you want to participate in this poll, please read the first five or so pages, of the thread linked below:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/scientist-finds-uk-water-companies-use-'magic'-to-find-leaks/Please note: this thread is not a discussion of whether or not dowsing works! I'm more interested in whether the thread has changed anyone's mind. If you want to discuss the efficacy of dowsing, please do so in the other thread.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:06:39 pm
content: You're joking, right? Keep the BS in one thread. Mr. Wolf is a troll of the first order.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:10:28 pm
content: Quote from: ChrisLX200 on December 19, 2017, 06:06:39 pmTrolls typically like to tip over the first domino and watch the rest go on their own, occasionally fanning the flames. That's not what I see in the thread. Considerable effort is put in to keep the shit cart rolling, so there seems to be a fair bit of personal investment.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:10:30 pm
content: First checking the poll results plainly shows this is the non believers thread.EditAdded 'results'.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:30:31 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 19, 2017, 07:10:30 pmWhat makes you say that? Because I, someone who thinks dowsing is nonsense, posted it or have I used the wrong wording?If you look at the options, I've put just as many believer as cynic options.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 19, 2017, 07:30:31 pmYou have and that needs be commended.But the poll results at this time speak for themselves.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 19, 2017, 08:04:30 pmThe thread is neutral, as I could possibly make it.The results of the poll will reflect the consensus of this forum. I'm more interested in whether anyone has changed their view on dowsing, than the number of believers vs doubters.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:11:26 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 19, 2017, 08:04:30 pmI don't follow your reasoning tautech. Results are results and the thread is looking for an answer, not to embarrass anyone nor demonstrate anything else other than how the other thread has changed or not changed people's views.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 19, 2017, 08:11:26 pmI think he's just saying that there's more non-believers here.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:24:15 pm
content: Somebodypleaselock this thread!... and the other one!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 08:15:06 pmThat may be true, but it wasn't the main focus of the thread. I want to see if having the debate has actually changed anyone's view on dowsing, regardless of which the side of the argument they're on.Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 08:24:15 pmNo one's making you read this!Don't like it? Ignore it.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:55:12 pm
content: I just don't see the point of opening up a new thread to poll people on something that has already got a 25 page, mostly three person argument on it.The only reason I can see for you having opened another thread is to gratify yourself with some sort of public aproval of your own opinion. People either believe in it or they don't The only outcome can be people from one camp trying to sway the other - and you already have a thread for that. It just drags down the level of the forum!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 08:55:12 pmIt's not three people in the other thread. It's more of a tag team of people versus a holdout with horrible form.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:06:58 pm
content: Ok, I get that - and a poll helps how? The holdout is going to magically see the error of his ways?I thought we didn't feed trolls here!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 09:06:58 pmIt's interesting to see that nobody has moved on his or her opinion, though it's utterly unsurprising.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:12:02 pm
content: Have you considered that many have followed the thread but have not posted? Have you considered that the idea of this thread is to assess what the effects of the other thread might be and whether or not it is a good idea to have threads like the dowsing thread on this forum?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:17:17 pm
content: QuoteIn that case, there should be a vote option for 'This dowsing thread brings down the tone of the Forum' or similar wording! Please add it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 19, 2017, 06:04:06 pmSorry, I made it as far as the mention of a divining rod.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:25:39 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 19, 2017, 09:12:02 pmI see no need for such an item. I considered other options such as: unsure or possibly, but didn't want to complicate it any further. You've voiced your disapproval and it'd been noted.Quote from: Lightages on December 19, 2017, 09:12:02 pmThat was the idea. I saw one or two people, who seemed to be recondidering whether it worked or not and would like to hear from them, but the debate hasn't changed anyone's view, then was it worth having in the first place?I was tempted to just have a simple yes or no answer to the question, but thought that wouldn't have given enough information.EDIT:Wahoooo! Someone's changed their view. Good for them. There's no shame in it. I've changed my view on things before, that's OK.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:34:59 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 19, 2017, 09:25:39 pmOf course you don't. My disapproval hasn't been noted in any statistical way, neither has that of anyone else feeling the same way. Five options so much harder for people to consider than four? Without it, the poll looks valid, with it, the other votes could well be so far down in the noise that they are not statistically valid. This is a technical forum!Damn, I'm actually beginning to care about this!

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:02:07 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 09:34:59 pmMade my day Chris, I nearly spat me tea out

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 09:34:59 pmWhat about those who may have not changed their view on dowsing and think discussing it is a waste of time? I could have allowed multiple choices, but that wouldn't stop someone from selecting conflicting ones.Someone else might mention another option, not listed above, followed by many more!The focus of the poll wasn't about whether or not we should be discussing subjects such as dowsing, but if having such a debate actually changes anyone's opinion. The results of the poll will hopefully help people make up their own minds, as to whether such discussions are worthwhile or not.If you feel that strongly about it, then you're always free to start your own poll!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:11:45 pm
content: QuoteNot on your life, I'm not propagating this folly any further!Just be aware that any poll without any sort of 'null' option can't be statistically valid, and is as a result, pointless!P.S.QuoteYes, that will do nicely! (you can even leave out the second half if you want)

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:38:31 pm
content: The poll will be skewed in any event. The 'safe' answer is "it doesn't work and I never thought it did". That's an easy choice to make. Further, there is bound to be a certain amount of ridicule for those who believe that it does work. There will be even more ridicule for those who claim to have had success using such a technique. Those folks will probably refrain from voting.And yet the utility company still allows, even encourages, the use of dowsing and, presumably, they find it worthwhile. After all, they're in the business and time is money.The results are what they are but the poll is not statistically valid. People lie to pollsters. Remember the last election? The polls had voters saying one thing but voting another. Or the poll only measured 'blue' areas. It is not valid to simply sample New York and California - at this moment in time, they are political outliers.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:41:36 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 19, 2017, 10:38:31 pmVoting is anonymous, so there's no fear of ridicule, other than generic comments.The rest of your comments have been addressed in the other thread. No need to rehash it here.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:41:58 pm
content: Just try it, for the lolzTake a couple coat hangers or #14AWG wire bent and put them in both hands and go for a walk.I thought dowsing was a load of bullshit, and so I thought, well, I'll just try it.To my surprise I noticed the coat hangers can subtlety move and be consistent about something, that is they behave the same over the same spot in a room.The stupid wires will move and cross over each other, like an "X".I did more research and they think it's ideomotor movements, or a person tilting/leaning to one side causing the wires to rotate. It's very low friction.-> Subconscious mind tilting your wrists causes the wires to rotate.I still think dowsing is a load of bullshit, but the dowsing rods can be made to move and it sure is weird seeing that.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:44:57 pm
content: I love how this thread is quickly becoming a copy of the other one. Now it's two turd tornadoes!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:59:59 pm
content: Well isn't that exactly what you expected when you set it up?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 11:05:38 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 10:59:59 pmI guess you're not talking to me?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 11:48:29 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2017, 10:11:45 pmThat's not a null option, which would be more along the lines of "I don't know whether dowsing works or not and I'm not sure whether my viewpoint has shifted significantly or not"

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 12:45:56 am
content: An interesting survey - from my understanding "logical" thought is often rarely that - often a rationalisation of what you believed/wanted in the first place. Polarisation or entrenchment of opinion often results from these topics. I recall a study of timing within the central nervous system showing emotional areas (Limbic) light up well before rational (Frontal) areas in decision making. So if you want to get someone to change their mind offer sex, food or money! HiHi.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 05:00:03 am
content: The results of this poll are not surprising in any way I am afraid. This is the same old tired story of those who believe will not be swayed by one argument. It sometimes takes many times confronting sacred beliefs until the person starts to actually think about their position. It can take many pokes or prods until someone starts to even want to think differently, These kinds of debates rarely change a person who is entrenched. It is usually when a person is starting to question their beliefs that they will actually listen opposing views.The fact that our conversation has actually made a person think is a good thing and why I bother with this BS.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 09:28:58 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 11:05:38 pmOops, sorry Mr. Scram.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 09:32:57 am
content: Dowsed my way to option 3

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 07:33:43 am
content: I always figured it was woo woo but I would be genuinely curious to be proven wrong and be explained how/why it works.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 07:52:19 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on December 21, 2017, 07:33:43 amThis is apparently impossible. You're either convinced it works, or you're not open minded or a pseudo-skeptic

author: gocemk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 08:07:47 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 19, 2017, 09:23:56 pm

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 09:00:15 am
content: So far three out of 49 have changed their opinion. Interestingly two out of three have changed their view in favour of dowsing. I wonder whether it's because the proponents of dowsing have made a more compelling argument or if it's out of sympathy, as they might appear to have been ganged up on?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 09:14:42 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 22, 2017, 09:00:15 amThat surprised me too.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 12:36:11 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 22, 2017, 09:14:42 amIt just goes to show that being logical and rational doesn't always convince people of anything.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 02:49:18 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 22, 2017, 09:00:15 amOr because you can't see who ticked what box? Some software forums let you choose to show who voted what. This is the internet. You expect honest answers to an anonymous poll?

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 10:32:15 am
content: I do not see all valid answers offered in poll. Variants imply beliefs, not knowledge. Perhaps need study a little:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmpiricismQuoteAs first step from dark ages practicing empiricism may suffice.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 10:55:09 am
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 24, 2017, 10:32:15 amThe poll contains the four possible variations of believed dowsing works/doesn't work before/after the discussion in the thread.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 01:54:27 pm
content: I hoped an anonymous poll would yield more honest answers, than one where everyone is named.It's not practical to list all possible view points, as there will be hundreds. The main purpose of the poll was to determine if the debate actually changed anyone's mind.It's also possible to change your vote, in this poll, if you like.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 03:34:52 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 24, 2017, 01:54:27 pmIt not about "changing mind" but acquiring scientifically sound knowledge.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExperimentQuoteSo there are options outside of beliefs:a) I experimentally confirmed phenomenon.b) I failed to experimentally confirm phenomenon.Both subject to limitations of specific experimenter.Note that since nature of phenomenon is not (fully) understood controlled experiment is impossible. This does still leave other sound options: Natural, field experiments and observational study. Important is not to forget ethics. Wikipedia article will provide further details for curious mind.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 04:51:10 pm
content: Wow, suddenly a huge spike in dowsing believers. Did this get posted somewhere, or did someone make a number of accounts or something?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 05:56:29 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 24, 2017, 03:34:52 pmThis thread was never about science, just people's opinions/perceptions, of dowsing. If it were about the science of dowsing, there would be no need for a poll.Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 24, 2017, 04:51:10 pmYes, I've considered the possibility that sockpuppetry could be interfering with the results. I suppose that's just one of the potential inaccuracies in poll, especially one about something which some people are passionate about.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 10:46:41 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 24, 2017, 05:56:29 pmFor pseudoskeptics yes, it is all about their opinions/perceptionshttp://www.skepticalaboutskeptics.org/examining-skeptics/editorial-suppressed-science-on-skeptics/Quote

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 10:50:59 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 24, 2017, 10:46:41 pmGood grief.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 10:53:39 pm
content: That guy just keeps coming up with straw man arguments, non-sequiturs, and woowoo blatherings. For someone who claims to be an experimental physicist he sure seems to be out there.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 11:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 24, 2017, 10:53:39 pmAs admitted before there is no interest in science here. Perhaps there is in history?http://www.skepticalaboutskeptics.org/examining-skeptics/guy-lyon-playfair/has-csicop-lost-the-thirty-years-war/Such a can of worms

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 03:49:34 am
content: WTF are you making incoherent noises about now? Are you a experimental physicist or not? If you say you are again, prove it or shut up. You are getting nuttier every post.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 04:36:07 am
content: Don't feed the trolls.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 05:53:09 am
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 24, 2017, 11:10:22 pmHow can you be skeptical about skeptics? By definition, being skeptical about something makes you a skeptic! So, in essence that website is implying that if you’re skeptical about skeptics, you should really be skeptical about your own views, since *you’re* now the skeptic. However, if you’re skeptical about being skeptical about skeptics y....EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...RECURSION ERROR...DISCONNECTED...AT&Z...READY_

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 08:17:07 am
content: Looks like we need a new top level forum category called "Dowsing", given the amount of interest that exists for itAnd also a few stickys in the that sub-forum:- What material makes a good dowsing rod?- I have a very good dowsing rod, but I just can't make it work, what could be wrong?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 09:33:30 am
content: Quote from: taydin on December 25, 2017, 08:17:07 amIt needs be a special type of Maple and grown in Chile.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 10:00:56 am
content: Quote from: timb on December 25, 2017, 05:53:09 amFigure of speechIf read actual article then see that this is about genuine skeptic movement being hijacked by pseudoskeptics eg fundamental materialists who are interested in everything but true science.But if do not like some other links to help navigate reality:https://www.lesserwrong.com/rationalityhttp://rationality.org/https://intelligence.org/

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 10:35:11 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 25, 2017, 09:33:30 amOr just use spectrum analyzer in certain tasks but psst... we really cannot discuss it, far too sciency! Here it is all about opinions...

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 05:10:59 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 25, 2017, 10:35:11 amWe know that is beyond your ken.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 07:59:27 pm
content: Quote from: Tepe on December 25, 2017, 05:10:59 pmNot really but trying hard to blend inStopped posting research links, keeping it to pleasant smalltalk...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 12:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 25, 2017, 07:59:27 pmBecause you ran out of studies showing dowsing works any better than chance?

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 01:54:36 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 12:38:57 pmNope, but glad you acknowledge that I have provided some previously

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 01:56:45 pm
content: I see we agreed to flush this one down the shitter too? Okay. Let's do this!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 02:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 26, 2017, 01:54:36 pmOne questionable study showing a potential positive, in how many showing otherwise? You don't need to be a mathematician to calculate the probability. Take as many bites of that cherry, as you like.Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 26, 2017, 01:56:45 pmThat happened fairly early on.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 02:47:10 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 02:05:10 pmThere was more than one. In any case - if interested in knowledge one would conduct experiments, which are very simple in this matter. Share experimental results. Discuss improvements to approach controlled experiment etc. But looking at how people coming forward with empirical evidence get stomped on it is clear what this activity here is all about. Self-appointed (hopefully) "gatekeepers" pamperingstatus quo. What I find funny is that as soon asstatus quochanges to diametrically opposite same people happily pamper things they once did fight. There are signs that matters are going tosubstantiallychange so until then perhaps better exchange pleasantries and

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 04:18:48 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 26, 2017, 02:47:10 pmWhy doesn't it surprise me that you're dismissive about people who change their opinion in the face of evidence?Besides, playing the victim isn't going to help you. You haven't been able to deliver the goods, so people don't believe you. It's that simple. No crying or defaming people about how they're all against you is going to change this.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 04:25:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 26, 2017, 04:18:48 pmThree people have changed their opinion in favour, vs one who's changed their view against the idea that dowsing works, so assuming there's no fraud, it seems like his debating style is very effective at convincing the undecided that dowsing works.This proves that using scientific reasoning is not the most effective way of changing people's views.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 05:00:22 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 04:25:10 pmI think it also shows, again, that when any doubt, reasonable or not, is thrown into a subject that people tend to go with belief rather than facts. This can be seen in the rise of flat earth idiocy and numerous conspiracy paranoia. There seems to be a characteristic of humans that skews our thought process to believing in magic, unseen forces controlling us, and general woowoo.It is sad that people have decided to change their mind in favor of dowsing being real. This is why we need to fight against the woowoo BS being spouted and keep vigilance. The Deepak Chopra word salad and non-sequitur ramblings seem to have either confused people or have convinced them with the pseudoscience nonsense.It is also a fact that when someone cries victim, people will tend to side with them. The false claims of being victimized is a usual tactic for those who wish to sway people to their way of "thinking". It is a shameful and low class tactic. Unfortunately it works.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 05:14:40 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 04:25:10 pmIt might, though it may be required for people to be more educated about the scientific method.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 05:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 04:25:10 pmSo I see you are not pleased with your pollAlso there is little error with your statement which I have fixed above. Do not remember you providing scientific data on the subject so must be referring to numerous research papers I linked. But glad you changed your mind and place scientific reasoning above exchange of opinions. As sign of appreciation I will provide further data in main topic. Teaser:Quote

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 06:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on December 26, 2017, 05:51:47 pmClearly using scientific reasoning is not the most effective way of changing people's views, otherwise more people would have been converted from believing dowsing is real, to the fact that it's most likely to be bunk. Face it, the balance of scientific evidence, suggests dowsing is no better than chance. You're of course entitled to believe otherwise and can cherry pick a few snippets of information to support your belief that dowsing works better than chance, but it doesn't change anything.QuoteI'm neither pleased, nor displeased with the results of the poll. I find it interesting.EDIT:The purpose of this thread is still about people's opinions not science. If it were about the latter, then there would be no scope for debate.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 06:38:35 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 06:30:18 pmHope you find this interesting also:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/scientist-finds-uk-water-companies-use-'magic'-to-find-leaks/msg1384162/#msg1384162Edit:Quote from: Hero999 on December 26, 2017, 06:30:18 pmI do agree, as shown in other thread dowsing has been correlated with ideomotorics 300 years ago, correlation is commonly accepted in scientific community. Only recently is has become evident that there is also correlation with VHF radiation which fully excludes possibility of controlled experiment by unqualified personnel due to RF interference considerations.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 06:58:42 pm
content: Stop spouting your nonsense. You keep saying you've shown numerous things, yet you've shown us next to nothing. You only lie to yourself, but you can't lie to us. Now go foul up that other thread.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 07:02:32 pm
content: Come on guys, it's Christmas!You already have a long thread for this argument, you've no reason for continuing to propagating it across another (especially when you are arguing in both at the same time). It'sbad forum etiquetteand you know it!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 07:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 26, 2017, 07:02:32 pmYou do realize you say pretty much exactly the same thing I was saying, right? Take the discussion to where it already was. We don't need another thread.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 07:10:02 pm
content: Yes, sure. I saw it as I hit post but why waste the sentiment (or support)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 07:11:18 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 26, 2017, 07:10:02 pmSorry, I may have knee-jerked there a bit

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 07:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 26, 2017, 07:06:35 pmI agree. This thread should just be about how people change their opinions or not. Keep the other thread for that bullshit.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 08:45:14 pm
content: It seems some people frown upon others who change their opinion on something, which I've never understood. I've changed my view on things before, because new evidence has come to light and can't be anything but proud of that fact.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 08:50:46 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 27, 2017, 08:45:14 pmNever changing your views means missing out on a lot of learning opportunities.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 05:45:39 pm
content: I think the problem, with some views is they become engrained, a bit like religion.By the way, I don't always see religion as a bad thing. Often having such beliefs can benefit the beholder, for example believing in heaven can make it easier for someone to grieve or when they've just been told they're going to die in a short length of time. As long as having faith doesn't negatively impact on one's every day life or decision making, it's not a bad thing to have.Full disclosure: I'm not religious myself.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 07:32:01 pm
content: I would like to talk to those who voted that they changed their minds to thinking that it works. What is so convincing? That is assuming that they aren't shills.

author: AllTheGearNoIdea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 07:52:27 pm
content: I posted earlier I think the whole thing is total woo woo. The problem is I have witness it being used and appeared to work on lots of occasions. As Christopher Hitchen would have said, is it more likely the laws of nature were suspended in your own favour or you were mistaken. I must have been mistaken.There nothing wrong in woo woo provided you don’t try to make other people play with your woo woo or teach woo woo in school instead of science.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 30, 2017, 07:32:01 pm"Come out, boy! We just wanna talk to yer! You can't hide forever!"