AEG CAMERA   - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 01:55:24 pm
content: https://www.technology.matthey.com/pdf/pmr-v44-i1-002-048.pdfhere up is the only info's I get for the system.Rescue from the pyramids abandoned.camera with a Stirling generator and the PC .Schematics in block in attachments , I will put photos soon , I am looking for a revival doctor ,hospital.what I saw in EBay is the expensive price for the lens used in movies

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 11:31:21 am
content: If the Stirling Cooler has failed, the camera is beyond economic repair. The Cooler in those AEG units has a finite running life before a complete rebuild is required. Such a rebuild is no longer economically viable.These cameras are more museum pieces than functional equipment.Fraser

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 12:46:10 pm
content: The display in the back camera :bullshit:indicates TEM OK , in the semiconductor criogenic machines in AMAT they arrive to 10 kelvin or minus 200? C. With pure helium 99,999% , in this camera... first I need to identify the problem :phew:helium is expensive but I can get it from old INTEL friends.the problem is the video signal out to the old monitor , related to the not cold germanium detector or electronics , video card , etc this job is like finding the Tutankamon secrets , if somebody has schematics from the camera or the AEG P.C. please put it here and help me to see in the night :popcorn:with my magic car

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 01:01:17 pm
content: The expensive Lents in those cameras:http://collectiblend.com/Lenses/Angénieux/50mm-f1.5-Type-S21-(Rectaflex).html

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 01:05:14 pm
content: This is my lent but I see nothing

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 01:23:27 pm
content: When the camera runs Ok temperature -200C , minus! , you feel the cold in your hand?I am a camera beginner now!this is also interesting in germanium detectors applications :Germanium detectors are semiconductor diodes having a p-i-n structure in which the intrinsic (i) region is sensitive to ionizing radiation, particularly x rays and gamma rays. Under reverse bias, an electric field extends across the intrinsic or depleted region. When photons interact with the material within the depleted volume of a detector, charge carriers (holes and electrons) are produced and are swept by the electric field to the p and n electrodes. This charge, which is in proportion to the energy deposited in the detector by the incoming photon, is converted into a voltage pulse by an integral charge sensitive preamplifier.Because germanium has relatively low band gap, these detectors must be cooled in order to reduce the thermal generation of charge carriers (thus reverse leakage current) to an acceptable level. Otherwise, leakage current induced noise destroys the energy resolution of the detector. Liquid nitrogen, which has a temperature of 77 °K is the common cooling medium for such detectors. The detector is mounted in a vacuum chamber which is attached to or inserted into an LN2 Dewar. The sensitive detector surfaces are thus protected from moisture and condensible contaminants.Support

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 02:08:19 pm
content: It looks to me like the Angénieux lens you showed is a visible light part made from ordinary glass. It is almost certainly not suitable for medium wave infrared (MWIR).If the camera is cooling to the right sort of temperature in a reasonable period of time (perhaps 10 minutes), you should be able to detectsomethingon the display even when there is no lens attached. Waving something hot - like your hand - across the lens aperture should cause the display to lighten and darken if it is responding to thermal radiation. Do not expect an image without a lens, but at least it will show if there is any life in the camera.As Fraser says, rebuilding a Stirling cooler is expensive. The reason it is expensive is that it is a very difficult job that requires high purity gas, probably special-to-type tools,and the service manual. You will also probably have to purge the Dewar chamber (which may well have helium or air in it by now) and pump it back to a suitably hard vacuum. Rebuilding a Stirling cooler on a thermal camera is unfortunately not as easy as just opening a valve and squirting in some helium - even if your friendscansupply the kind of high-purity gas you need.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 02:17:29 pm
content: If you just want to experiment with infrared imaging, your cheapest route is to buy a used,moderndevice (such as a Seek, a low-end FLIR, or perhaps a ThermalExpert or Therm-App - I saw a Therm-App sell for just GBP361 recently,eBay auction: #323447070038). Have a play, then if you want you can sell the camera again for roughly what you paid for it. That will work out alotcheaper than trying to rescue an old camera from the dead - and you will learn a lot.

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 03:22:43 pm
content: the Lents is blackF50/F1,5 alsothe video format out from the camera connectorthismeans any idea.the AIM company before TELEFUNKEN AEG does not answer about the service manual , schematics'.thanks for everything.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 04:23:47 pm
content: Thermal imaging camera service manuals are not normally released to the general public and even service agents tend to only receive board replacement guides these days. I very much doubt you will be able to obtain schematics or a service manual.Please provide pictures of the camera and what appears on the video output, if anything.Fraser

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 06:23:27 pm
content: The lens you posted is a very rare analog lens for Leica. You must have identified it incorrectly. Post some pictures of the camera and maybe we can spot something.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 08:29:13 am
content: I think our friend may have fallen into the trap of thinking that one expensive 50mmf/1.5 lens is the same as another, and/or that theAngénieux arrangementis a magic lens formula for thermal imaging.Whilst the Angénieux retrofocus arrangement is very clever, it basically just facilitates wide angle lenses with a greater back focus distance.Given suitable materials, an Angénieux lens can be made for any wavelength of light - visible, ultraviolet, longwave infrared, even for microwave radio frequencies - but if I have a 50mmf/1.5 visible light Angénieux lens and a 50mmf/1.5 thermal Angénieux lens then any resemblance is limited to the expression "50mmf/1.5 Angénieux" - the physical optical elements and their performance at different wavelengths will be quite different (although the basic optical arrangement will remain the same, otherwise it's no longer an Angénieux).

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 08:43:07 am
content: Difficult to put photos always ...file to large.limit info only :AEGAIS IR CAMERA 256x256 Pt Si - Fpa detector from AIM ( platinium silicium not germanium)4 Connectors : power -control - . trigger and video coaxialsthe video out to one old Sony video monitor .the only thing this system do is spent electricity andtime good for forgetting another problems

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 08:54:13 am
content: The Lents is closed ,it does not open like others in photo normal aparats transparent, this is black, of course maybe made from radioactive materialsthorium or X?Is possible to turn it by hand but anyway I do not see anything in the video monitor black and white .the on line signal from the WW2 AEG pc or something strange fails.this led in the camera on line is RED?

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 09:06:14 am
content: the red led tell me OFF LINEHow to put it on line ?temperature green ?I can not put normal photos ...file to large .sorry

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 09:11:13 am
content: No possible to put big photos

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 09:26:04 am
content: The fact that you can't see through the lens is a good sign. It means it is not a visible light lens.It is unlikely that the infrared lens has a diaphragm (iris), unlike the visible light lens you found.What happens when you connect a composite video monitor to the BNC socket on the back of the camera? Do you see any startup information, or any sort of change in the screen as the cooler brings the temperature down?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 09:41:46 am
content: Please google resizing photos. It is pretty simple to do and will enable you to post pictures that fit within the forums 1Mb image size limit. I down-sample my images to 1024 x 768 pixels. Most cameras offer lower resolution modes when you take the picture. If using an iPad just email the pictures to yourself with a smaller size selected, open the received email, save it and you have resampled smaller images to post on the forum.The camera indicating that it is "off-line" means it will not be even trying to produce an image output. Without seeing the pictures of the whole system it is not possible for me to say more.Fraser

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 02:05:25 pm
content: The cables going to the camera are coming from one AEG old PC or system I supposed like you said that there is a signal ,voltage INHIBIT signal or cable to ground that activates the camera from the old PC , the trigger signal is coming from the PC MODULE , if everything is logic the coaxial cable is going in analogue signal to the PC converted in digital and to the small monitor like one oscilloscope , this module and the screen is not in the PC , I checked with and old video monitor directly from the output coaxial camera conector ,but nothing is coming out any noise or signalsin clear the camera OFF LINE I guess must be ON LINE or green , I will check in the future inside the PCB boards the on signal?.this is why the system was put in the cellar long time ago.I was in the old times converting Pal monitors 625 lines to , 819 FRENCH TV when I was more experienced in electronics ,always with schematics.thanks again.

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 03:07:03 pm
content: This is more clear , maybe is impossible :

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 03:09:30 pm
content: This is the system schmatics , like I said the video module and screen is gone to X

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 01:03:21 am
content: That point in the processing is unlikely to have a signal that a video monitor will show even if it is working.Can you get that connection on an oscilloscope ?Bill

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 08:17:33 am
content: Is also my idea , there is also not signal with one tv monitor with analogue input from WW2 , and OSD oscilloscope ., double problem!The analogue signal if everything was good must go out from the output coaxial cable to the Analogue digital converter in the PC. This converter pcb card disappear from the PC?I read this better wrote than my bad English from this system:AEG has successfully developed a family of PtSi detection modules to cover various applications. The development was performed in a cooperation with Daimler Benz Research and Technology F2M and Telefunken Microelectronic TEMIC EZIS. The modules are designed around 2 staring PtSi focal plane arrays (FPA) having 256 X 256 pixels or 640 X 486 pixels, respectively. Both arrays are identical in their basic features like 24 micrometers pitch, > 60% fillfactor, variable integration time, optional interlaced and non interlaced rolling frame readout, subframe capability and excellent thermal resolution with measured values for the NETD < 70 mK (300 K, 20 ms, F/1.4). The FPA's are integrated either in integrated dewar cooler assemblies with a 1/3 W split linear compressor for the 256 X 256 FPA or a 1 W split linear compressor for the 640 X 486 FPA, respectively, or designed for the use in seeker applications with a Joule Thomson cryocooler (640 X 486 FPA only). The modules are completed by different miniaturized types of electronics, providing all DC and clock supplies to drive the FPA's and providing the customer with either a buffered analog or a 14 Bit resolution digital interface. Digital signal processor (DSP) based image correction units were developed for testing the units. The DSP boards provide the ability for freely programmable real-time functions like 2 point correction or other data manipulations in camera applications. The modules and their key features are reviewed together with their performance data.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 01:29:15 pm
content: I shall keep this brief as I really do not have the information or pictures needed to make a detailed assessment of your system.......1. The camera head contains the Cooler, sensor array and Optics. It may also contain a buffer amplifier for the 'video' output.2. The camera head receives all the required power, bias and timing signals from the separate controller/PC required to create the thermal scene video signal.3. The Controller/PC creates the timing for the system so it can interpret the 'RAW' video signal coming out of the camera head in the time domain. This enables construction of a viewable video image frame.4. The controller/PC not only generates the required power supplies and timing signals, it also converts the RAW video signal into a digital format that it can process. This will be the ADC video card that you appear to be missing. Once the RAW video is in the digital domain, it has the required video processing and calibration corrections applied. These corrections are used to remove dead pixels from the image and create a uniformly 'flat' image output from the thermal sensor array. Without this correction the image will contain many dead pixels and possibly appear to have light and dark pixels all over it. Basically, pretty much unuseable RAW imagery.4. The controller/PC is a 'System' and is likely 'closed loop'. That is to say, when it boots, it tests itself and checks for the presence of all cards and expected inter component communications. This can include a true 'BITE' sub system that will test and diagnose faults within the equipment. If any part of the system is faulty or missing, it is highly likely that the operating system will spot this as an error and will not provide the camera head with any signals to drive the sensor. Power supplies to the head are likely completely separate to the image control functions so they are present to cool the sensor but no bias voltages or timing signals will be present at the sensor. The camera head is basically like. Zombie .... the lights are on, but no one is at homeSadly you have an incomplete thermal imaging system. It is unlikely to boot up correctly and drive the camera head unless you so,be the missing video card problem. You cannot just tap the video output from the camera head as it is unlikely that the sensor is actually doing anything and is still 'asleep'.The fact that the camera head is not 'on-line' means the controller/PC is not putting the head into operation mode so it is, as already stated, cooled but asleep.Sorry it is not better news.I have worked on different manufacturers products that appear to be constructed in the same way as your unit. They are complete closed loop systems that are very fault intolerant and shut down the camera head whenevervan issue is detected. The running of the Cooler is not proof of life in the imaging head sensor array. It is purely a simple power control of a motor driving a pump. Pretty dumb electronics that regulate sensor temperature to -196CSome pictures of the system would have helped me identify any similar/re-badged versions that may exist.As the old saying goes.... a picture is worth a thousand words.Fraser

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 01:50:35 pm
content: Is what I thought thanks,here is what I found about the FPA 25X256 SENSOR :http://archives.njit.edu/vol01/etd/2000s/2001/njit-etd2001-080/njit-etd2001-080.pdfIn clear there is one card in the pc that control the vertical horizontal multiplexer array lost . ! in the camera I will give it to an electronic school or somebody that like puzzles the AEG is very secretive and doesn't give any info's

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 01:59:28 pm
content: Further to my last, Inam still unclear whether your controller is a true PC or looks like a PC ? If a true PC, it may have used a relatively common Video capture card and so such may still be available on the used market. Sadly details of the card chipset will not be obvious and a look in the operating system drivers would be required. If the unit contained a built in video monitor, it could just be a VGA signal system so a standard modern monitor could be used. As I say, pictures help us !Many years ago I was dealing with a $300K specialist system that had a video fault. There was no support for the system so I delved inside to investigate the design. It turned out to be an Intel 486 based industrial mini PC at the heart of the unit with various sub systems hung off of it. The fault was on the ISA video card and even professional rework at a lab could not fix it. The card looked very large and complex compared to similar cards of the time. I started studying the video card and realised that it was really just an ET4000 based card with lots of memory. I did not own the unit but I knew I had an ET4000 video card in one of my home PC's. I donated it to the cause and the equipment fired up perfectly with no driver issues or complaints. The application did not need a large video memory anyway. We could possibly have installed drivers for another type of video card but this was no ordinary equipment or PC. The Operating System was very complex and heavily modified so sticking with the standard OS build was deemed prudent ! Sometimes with PC Cards, it is the chipset that is important rather than the exact card model or maker.So for the 'cost' of an ET4000 video card the system was saved. I might add that the ET4000 card was long obsolete at that time and hard to source. I just fitted an S3 card in my PC in its place as I had lots knocking around.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 02:02:06 pm
content: I just saw your last post. Oh dear that is bad news. If the timing signal generation card is missing you will not be able to bring this unit back from the dead easily.Fraser

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 03:34:35 pm
content: Well looking on the positive side, I'm sure there is fun stuff you can do with a cryocooler (make some liquid oxygen then some serious fire?), and you also have a bunch of optics to play around with if you find another thermal imaging system.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2018, 04:15:59 pm
content: Sadly, not so positive I regret to advise.The Stirling Cooler is only rated to cool a very small mass within a vacuum Dewar. Very low powered. The Lenses are coated for Medium Wave (I think) so not suitable for Longwave applicationsSadly these systems are pretty much Museum pieces. Impressive fromma historical perspective, but sadly hard to maintain without parts supply.Fraser

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 02:53:42 pm
content: Anyway is a pleasure to play like children and :-DDso old!and have so many people help me , here in this address in California :http://www.seir.com/detcam.htmI learned how the sensor camera works , I was still thinking in the old Orticon vacuum tubes cameras with horizontal and vertical oscillators , this people made for the government because is very expensive PCB and modules for the sensors ,multiplexors, etc.The image computer is not a PC Normal is a box with the modules control and XX?I will put a photo soon.I learned a lot here and still I am thinking in using the expensive Lents in a chip camera from ALDI and see what happened! by mistake I made a police car photo and I saw one red light in the telephone camera ,later the police told me when I asked that they have infrared cameras in the periscopio even when the car stop to control the parking nightmare in this country! in New ZELAND is worst they have 4 cameras in one car that runs even at 100 klm hour in the police program here I saw it.

author: INFINIUM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2018, 03:06:44 pm
content: This is the module that was attached to the camera , now I think is inside the cameras thanks to the AMAT machines that made chips smaller... In the plastic bag where I keep the screws ..the video module that control the sensor multiplex is not any more !also the cable from this module to the screen the red line is gone?