Fluke 187/189/87-4 vs Agilent U1272A - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 06:40:17 pm
content: So for reasons of some birthday funds I was asked to spend... I am considering a new to me multimeter. I will be honest and say this isn't something I have a specific need for but I've got some funds to burn. Currently I have a Fluke 87-3. If I do this it will be replaced by one of these. I know Dave seems to have reservedly recommended the U1272 over the current Fluke 87-5. What about compared to the 187/189. All of the above seem to go for aobut $200 on ebay.Thoughts... other than why do I need something better than what I already have

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 08:15:01 pm
content: Well, the 87-3 is a great meter. A 87-5 would not be that big a step up at all. Yes the 1272 has many nice features and would be a nice addition buy it looks like they go for more like an average of $250 or more. Tequipment is also showing them as discontinued!?You might also consider a Brymen BM869 although I am not sure you would find that much more utility from any of the mentioned meters over an 87-3.Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a logging and/or PC connecting multimeter of lesser price, maybe two.

author: jamesp15
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 08:35:09 pm
content: I own multiple 87-5's and U1272A's, I find myself using the 87-5's a lot more than the 1272's. Both are great meters, but I cant stand the update speed of the U1272A, it is way too fast, lots of "jumpy looking" readings. No experience with the 18x's, but I have some 289's that I use for datalogging pretty frequently and like them, but probably out of price range.The 1272A is definitely a much more modern/up to date design than the 87's.

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 08:55:24 pm
content: While I don't own an 87-X (have used one though), I can say that I don't regret getting the 1272A. The backlight is better, it uses 4xAA (rather than 9V) and the logging just comes in darn handy. It's also nice to be able to take VDC measurements and see the duty cycle at the same time (PWM). Most annoying thing about the 1272A would be the fact that you can't mute it without also muting the continuance buzzer. It's true that it almost measures too fast, but the meter has a handy smooth mode that you can enable temporarily or permanently.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 09:42:45 pm
content: Thanks for the replies all. Please note I'm asking about the 87-4 (aka 187) not the 87-5.

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 11:10:38 pm
content: I have a few 87V, a few 189 and a U1272A. I find myself using the 189 the most, but the U1272A really comes in handy with data logging.AC mode given priority / being first annoys me a little on the Flukes.The Agilent leads suck for electronics; use your Fluke or other leads.The update speed sometimes is too fast on the Agilent, but for data logging I do it doesn't matter one bit.87-IV and 187 only differ from 89-IV and 189 in data logging I think?But honestly your 87III is great, why replace it? Or do you need a second meter? Hasn't this question been asked a few times already?The Flukes may be cheaper because you will likely get them used, maybe this is where you are going?

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 11:25:05 pm
content: Don't buy a replacement, but rather an addition to your test equipment arsenal.You can never have too many meters!You might want to consider getting an Agilent benchtop power supply. If you buy one by the end of august, you get one U1272A multimeter with it for free.Forum thread about this promotion

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 11:28:20 pm
content: I'm looking at the upgrade because I'm being asked to select my own gift. I don't need it but the option is there. Also, the 87-3 will likely be sold given how much they fetch on ebay thus the upgrade won't cost much (yes, it's a convoluted gift).

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 11:30:41 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on August 15, 2013, 11:25:05 pmHmmmm.... I didn't see a option for a US offering. Did I miss it?

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2013, 11:39:23 pm
content: Hmm... It looks like the promotion is only for Europe.I would suggest you update your profile and specify a country, so people know up front where you are from.

author: Marc M.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 01:11:24 am
content: Quote from: true on August 15, 2013, 11:10:38 pmFWIW, the reason why Fluke gave AC priority over DC is because this meter was designed for Industrial Maintenance, not bench electronics. My day job is performing maintenance in a large CNC machine shop. At work I might use DC once for every fifty times I use AC so it makes sense that Fluke gave AC priority. At home when working on the bench it's just the opposite, I use DC most of the time but again, that's not the primary use Fluke designed the meter for. In fact, until I started watching Dave's videos and hanging out on this board, I didn't realize that the 87 series was popular amongst the electronics crowd. When I was doing electronics bench work years ago, not a single technician used a handheld meter. Everybody had a couple of bench DMM's and one analog meter for performing alignments (too difficult to find peaks/nulls with a DMM). Given the popularity amongst the electronics crowd I'm a little surprised that Fluke hasn't introduced a meter specifically designed with them in mind.

author: willb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 02:14:11 am
content: I have a Fluke 87-4 and I love it. Ive had it for 6 years. It's my favorite meter. I use a lot of other various Fluke and Agilent meters through work, and I love my 87-4. Uses AA batteries, has dual display capability like the Fluke 45 (which I also own), higher count than a 87-5 (50 000 vs 20 000), and a few other things. That being said, I don't think upgrading from an 87-3 to a 87-4 is much of an upgrade, more so a lateral move, unless the count and dual display is a deal breaker for you. In your situation, I'd spend the money elsewhere. I regularly use original Fluke 25's,27's, 87's and 87-5's at work (I tend to prefer to use the Fluke's) and I've never found myself wishing I had my personal 87-4 instead. I do wish that my 87-4 had a low z mode like the 87-5, on the rare occasion that I would require it... If you're going to upgrade, get something worth upgrading to, like a 289, only if the extra features are ones you have use for. Otherwise, keep your meter and buy something else.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 04:36:30 am
content: Quote from: Marc M. on August 16, 2013, 01:11:24 amMarc M. - great post - it provides a lot of insight as to how and why the 87 came about, and I agree with you that it's a little surprising that Fluke hasn't introduced an 87 class meter specifically for the bench market. In fact, I can almost guarantee that Fluke will start selling such a product in the not too distant future. I suspect it will happen pretty shortly after I purchase an 87 V which I have been contemplating for a while now. Seriously, nice post. I hope someone in Fluke product management is reading it.

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 04:39:46 am
content: Quote from: Marc M. on August 16, 2013, 01:11:24 amYes, I know and I am aware; most people I see with flukes are electricians. Still, it's annoying for me. The Agilent also has AC firstMy Keithley powers up in DC mode though. Minor thing all said.Quote from: Marc M. on August 16, 2013, 01:11:24 amSome of the older meters had DC first... :? Something more current would be nice.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 04:53:06 am
content: Quote from: Robomeds on August 15, 2013, 06:40:17 pm$200 USD is about the going price from sellers that include new batteries and fuses!(Insidejoke, Robomeds will get it).I got my 187, with patience, for $125 USD, but the 440mA fuse was blown and had corroded battery terminals. See my posthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fluke-187-corroded-battery-terminals-how-to-clean/Modemhead has some teardown pictures of his Fluke 189http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/gallery/fluke-189-clean-up/The dual display came in handy while troubleshooting an ATX power supply overvoltage protection with min/max mode.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 05:00:13 am
content: One major nice point for the Brymen BM869 is that it remembers your last selection of a function. If you want to start in AC mode, select that and it will start in that mode again next time. Want DC mode as default? It is your choice.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 05:34:18 am
content: The 187/9 are slightly bigger than the 87-5 but it has higher DC accuracy. I think Fluke has discontinued the meters replace with 287/9 so if you buy used meter Fluke might not honor the warranty. Sometime to consider here...I have two 187s and one 189, very happy with them. Use Eneloop AA and you will be fine. These meters are rock solid, barely drift over the pass few years.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 05:40:35 am
content: Quote from: nukie on August 16, 2013, 05:34:18 amI use Eneloops as well. Battery life, however, is a dismal 72 hours (from manual).

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 05:43:08 am
content: Quote from: willb on August 16, 2013, 02:14:11 amOne additional point with respect to the above.On the 87 original and 87 III, the 20,000 count mode is updated 1/sec. On the 87V, the 20,000 count mode is updated 4/sec.On the 187/189, 50,000 count is updated 4/sec.PS. Robomeds' BK 5390 50,000 count meter is updated 2/sec.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 09:11:04 am
content: Quote from: true on August 15, 2013, 11:10:38 pmIt's not as big a deal on the 187/87-IV as on the 87-V though because AC and DC don't share dial positions on the former, so it's just a matter of twisting the dial a little further.Quote from: retiredcaps on August 16, 2013, 05:40:35 am72h on alkaline. NiMH batteries could perform better, depending on the cut-off voltage. Even if you use it 8 hours per day (unlikely, even for a full-time professional), then the batteries would still last about two working weeks. Recharging batteries every two weeks with very intensive use is not a big deal in my opinion. The battery compartment does not use self tappers, so I wouldn't be worried about stripping the threads after a few times.

author: pgross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 09:49:14 am
content: Yeah these Fluke 187/189 meters are real battery eatersI have pretty good experience with some Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAin my Fluke 89IV.Best RegardsPeter

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 12:34:02 pm
content: Thanks all, this has been very informative. Given what everyone is saying it sound like I should consider the 187/189 only a mild upgrade. I will keep it in mind if I find a good deal on ebay. Amazing that a Fluke 87-V will command almost the same price used and sometimes even higher. Any thoughts on the Agilent?After all this talk I'm leaning towards the 'find something else' option but I still figured it was worth asking.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 12:37:54 pm
content: I'd go with a BM867/869 with it's logging addon.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 01:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: pgross on August 16, 2013, 09:49:14 amNot in my experience, but the 289 eats a lot of batteries.

author: Marc M.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 01:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: HKJ on August 16, 2013, 01:05:57 pmI hear more complaints about the 233 Flukes with the removable display eating batteries more than any other series. A large corporation I worked for started issuing 233's instead of 87-V's but most techs hated them due to the horrible battery life. When the plant interior size is measured in acres, it really sucks to be troubleshooting a machine off in a far corner and have the batteries die in your meter. Most who got a 233 tried to come up with an 87-V to use. The remote display comes in handy now and then but just not that often at least in my line of work. With my 87-V I normally just use the MIN-MAX function if I have to be toggling something at the control panel while the meter is in the cabinet monitoring a line. Personally I'd opt for a data logger over the remote display but apparently the battery life isn't that great on those either.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 02:08:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on August 16, 2013, 12:37:54 pmI've looked around but haven't found the higher end ones on ebay that often.Basically I was given some birthday money with the understanding that I was to use it to buy toys... er... tools for the bench. Looking at some of the prices on ebay I realized I could upgrade my meter for not a whole lot by selling the old if I found a good deal on the new. Both the Fluke 18x and Agilent seemed like good potentials and an upgrade if I am lucky will be less than $50. If I am really lucky, free. So that is why I'm asking. The feeling I'm getting is this is very much a lateral vs vertical move.Regardless, this is also good information!

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 02:24:24 pm
content: Buy the BM867/869 from tme.eu

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 03:18:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on August 16, 2013, 02:24:24 pmWhat's there deal with US shipping etc. 180 EU seems reasonable but that's before shipping and the like. Is it really worth getting vs the U1271 or 18x?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 03:21:28 pm
content: No, you're in the States, get an Agilent.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 04:39:38 pm
content: The BM869 is a very good meter and a very good buy. But as just said if you are in the US an Agilent U1272A for $250 or so is probably a better buy. When I was looking a U1272A would have cost me over $400 with shipping whereas the BM869 cost me $290 with shipping. If you really can get the Agilent for $250 or less, then that is the smart thing to do.Although...There has been a bad batch of U1272A meters reported here, and it has had some software bugs. I don't know if these have all been fixed.

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2013, 07:11:53 pm
content: QuoteTrue. Although I've now pulled 3 apart and taken a look, with no issues found.