Samsung can now remotely brick your TV - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 04:34:23 am
content: In what appears to be the first precedent of this kind, Samsung has activated the remote kill switch on their TVs to disable the TVs looted from their distribution center in South Africa.https://news.samsung.com/za/samsung-supports-retailers-affected-by-looting-with-innovative-television-block-functionQuoteGuess we should expect this practice to become wide spread in general.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 04:47:18 am
content: Well that’s good then, as it’s a valuable lesson in learning which utter crap mongers to avoid.Any AV consultant that knows what is what will advise to keep the “smart” part of your setup external to the tv - and Roku wins. Keep Samsung and their SHITE out of your house, keep your TV dumb, and use a box.Anyone knows that. I wouldn’t buy a Samsung ANYTHING, EVER. We have a 14 year old LESS than 720p Panasonic plasma, never once missed a beat, and it’s dumb and glorious.Back to the story you linked - these are STOLEN ITEMS - end of story. Who would to steal Samsung turd is beyond me, but nevertheless, there’s no recourse for ILLEGAL, STOLEN AND IMMORALLY sourced goods.Apple do the same with their productsIt’s a good idea.Who cares.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:08:03 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 04:47:18 amFrom what I read, Roku is almost as bad as the built in smart features nowadays. I would say go with a PC for great graphics, or a Raspberry Pi for a super budget option.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:12:14 am
content: Why would anyone steal a Samsung product?So far out of all the TV brands i was hand on with the best was Samsung. They power on/off within a second or two, the menus are fast and responsive, the remotes are nice small, ergonomic and don't have a pile of unnecessary buttons, the menu are structured in a nice logical way... etcThe shittiest TV brand i used is Phillips. The thing is as slow as molasses.As for the smart features on TVs they indeed always ware utter crap, better to use an external box for it(I use a PC myself and love it). But with the new TVs the smart features are actually getting to being something usable. They are now capable of rendering a modern bloated web page in seconds rather than like half a minute( and not even rendering correctly), the various apps like youtube are now fully featured and no longer so slow that you loose your mind. This is probably mostly from stuffing in some of the Android technology and its spinoffs. But this does mean that yes in 10 years the smart functionalities on that TV are going to be useless.First time i hear they can remotely brick a TV tho. I don't have any problem with that since it was stolen after all. I would assume Samsung has the common sense to not start randomly bricking TVs in order to generate more sales. That would be a massive blow to there reputation once it gets found out.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:22:45 am
content: Don't some smartphones have the ability to be bricked if they've been stolen? There's lots of things that can be disabled/made worthless if determined stolen or otherwise compromised. If a large amount of money is stolen and the serial numbers were recorded in advance, if the notes turned up they'd not be honored, but the police called. All sorts of other items with serial numbers, if stolen, likewise can not be honored if a system is in place, such as tickets, gift certificates, etc. Some cars can be disabled if stolen. Years ago, when car audio systems were becoming a popular item for thieves, I remember some higher end models would automatically be bricked if they were removed. Nothing really new here, as far as I'm concerned, other than it's good if even more items are getting anti-theft measures added.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:47:44 am
content: Frankly this seems like a good idea, provided it is only used when something is stolen. If they brick a TV that somebody legitimately owns let me know and I'll be upset, but if it's stolen property then a person is not entitled to make use of it. I have absolutely zero sympathy for looters and thieves and I support anything that makes it harder for them to enjoy their ill gotten gains. People won't steal stuff as often if they know they won't be able to use it.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:51:30 am
content: Quote from: Berni on September 09, 2021, 05:12:14 amI would delegate this to those with more everyday experience, aka "AVS forums" - they know this stuff inside out,. back to front, upside down etc - this is their bread and butter. The "smart" TV manufacturers are NOTORIOUS for abandoning their shitty products - these sets are NOT their main and/or sole interest, and thus, they have ZERO interest in keeping them patched/supported, just as with the gangantuan array of TRASH Android handsets. They care about repeat sales, not repeat updates for older machines. My 2015 Roku is STILL receiving the latest OS updates, I check it once every 6 months, and the same cannot be said for the JUNK "smart" TVs.This is a fact - I've done HUGE amounts of research on this, not to mention listening to Scott Wilkison of the aforementioned "AVS forums" talking LIVE on a Saturday evening via "The Tech Guy" fromhttp://live.twit.tv- and you can multiply that by however many (5+ I reckon) years, and X amount of hours I've heard him and other ACTUAL industry experts discussing these subjects, and taking calls from consumers.External TV box ALWAYS WINS, irrefutable fact.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:52:57 am
content: Quote from: Berni on September 09, 2021, 05:12:14 amLikewise my TV is also a Samsung, it's great, for all the reasons you mention. Ok it was broken when I got it (for free) but I fixed it 6 years ago and haven't had a single problem with it since then. In my experience Samsung makes some of the best TVs on the market. I don't like "smart" TVs of any brand but since I have a nice Raspberry Pi based streaming player I don't really care. If I ever own a smart TV it will never get connected to the internet anyway.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 05:54:23 am
content: Quote from: Berni on September 09, 2021, 05:12:14 amIf the best you can say is that you find Samsung the best of all that you've tried, then wowee... you must have REALLY REALLLLLLLLLLLY been scraping the barrel!My mate was given a 4 year old Sammy TV, and the little plastic diffuser domes that sit atop the LED backlit array grid, would randomly FALL OFF, due to the TINY dabs of adhesive used to stick them over the LEDs. It's a known issue.As for anyone referring to R/Pi as a "solution" for streaming - lest we forget that about 0.0000000001% of ACTUAL consumers would do that - let's not make obscure comparisons to reality.In the old days, NORMAL stuff was made well and LASTED. Now, the "normal" stuff is generic SHITE, and the not QUITE so shite, more expensive stuff is branded as "premium". People are dumb, and they are EASILY SOLD. The world is a mess, and who cares? Not many.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 06:02:11 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 05:54:23 amAre you drunk? Or are you just completely lacking any kind of social skills whatsoever? Every once in a while I click to view one of these blocked posts and every time I regret wasting my time. You must think you're sooooo smart and enlightened, congratulations, have a gold star. Maybe some day I'll learn.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 06:11:50 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 09, 2021, 06:02:11 amI was brought up not to take what wasn't mine: you have TAKEN offence, and it doesn't belong to you. Why would you do that? My views are none of your concern, and I have free will and the right to express them. I apologise that you're so easily disturbed by inoffensive views on technology, esp ones that LACK personal attacks or insults (a weak stance in any debate)I've forwarded your concerns to the relevant team @ /dev/null; please expect a response within 24-48hrs. Have a superb week.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 06:17:52 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 06:11:50 amPlease don't. It's a technical forum full of opinioned engineers, chill out.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 06:24:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 09, 2021, 06:17:52 amI am sufficiently refrigerated- hehe - the "relevant team" is located at /dev/null (the same provider of "support" that r/pi forums subscribe to) - yes, we certainly can be an opinionated lot, but I do not seek to do so, and have to bite my tongue A LOT when surrounded by so many angry old men, haha!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 07:17:27 am
content: The cost of theft is generally bourn by all the other consumers one way or another. Why people don't like connecting a TV to the internet I don't know, it's just another computer like the one on your desk or in your pocket.I don't do TV anyway, I have a 43" 4k monitors I can plug any of my devices into without having to set yet another one up and as the most I do is watch films have no use for a TV as such. The only reason I would use such a sized screen is to have many people see the same content, when on my own either of my 27" 4k monitors already attached to my computer that use much less power are perfectly adequate.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 07:53:27 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 09, 2021, 07:17:27 amBecause most of the time it is a quite crappy, often outdated and slow computer, whose main purpose seems to be displaying ads.My current TV is now i think more than 15 years old. Not even Full HD, but also no smarts in sight. I honestly dread the day it dies, while i would appreciate a higher resolution screen, i do not want to have to deal with a smart TV.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 08:08:41 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 09, 2021, 07:53:27 amDo you mean they don't sell non-smart TVs anymore? I wouldn't know because I'm with Simon, and I don't even own a TV nor have researched the current TV market for a very long time. TVs don't make for good computer monitors, so the only TV-like devices I buy are real computer monitors.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 08:35:58 am
content: Samsung have been investigated for watching people in their homes via the internal camera on some of their TVs. Yeah so no privacy issues there hey. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Blissful to live in ignorance.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:10:03 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 09, 2021, 08:08:41 amIf a TV for you has some kind of integrated tuner, then no, i do not think that many non-smart TVs are made anymore. At least not in the common consumer brands.If you can live with an external device to provide signal, then indeed monitors are a decent substitution, but those get expensive when you want large sizes and stuff like OLED screens.Other than that, there are sometimes also Devices like Information Displays though. Many of these use TV panels, but lack all the smarts. Paradoxically, these are sometimes more expensive than the equivalent TV

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:37:34 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 05:54:23 amPerhaps math isn't your strong suit. 0.0000000001% of the world population is 0.008 persons, with the number of actual consumers naturally being even less than that. So a total impossibility to even consider that. And yes, I understand the concept of an exaggeration, but making up a number like that is way beyond the point of being just an exaggeration, to the point of being ridiculously absurd, especially when you're talking about "reality".

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:43:41 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 08:35:58 amLink please. I did a search and found some reports of data being sent from their TVs, but nothing about video from the internal camera, which would be a whole other level.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:46:58 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 09, 2021, 09:10:03 amYes, a real monitor only can be much more expensive than an equivalent size TV. But the quality of the picture is also much better, at least for all cases I've checked. For low-res needs, or viewing from a distance, an large screen TV might be fine. For up close high-res needs, TVs used as monitors are crap, unless there's some I've not seen.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:48:10 am
content: Apple do this too, on phones stolen from Apple stores.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:50:21 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 09, 2021, 09:46:58 amIt's cheaper to buy 4K TV's nowadays than 4K monitors.I personally have 2 x 28" 4K monitors, and they're great. But they cost £400 in total new (which was very cheap, they are now more expensive due to the silicon shortage, last I checked.)A 48" 4K TV would cost about the same and offers more screen area, although less total pixels.I know a 3D CAD mechanical designer who has a 39" 4K TV as his main desktop display and has it partitioned into 2/3 displays as needed.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:58:20 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 05:51:30 amNope for quite some time it has been impossible to dissociate things as they was..Audiophile HIFI days -GONEAV integrated SHITE - GONEVideo standards - GONEthe list goes onPresently the cost of these "SMART" gizmos boils down 75% to 85% just onto the PANEL.Those who manufacture the PANELS are making money...The rest of the stack is IP property piling like nutsAll things converged and blurred to 2 or 3 brands which detain the vertical stackAMD/ATI NV/ARM and the whole ecosystem around ANDROID TYZEN and smart gizmos made from what once upon a time was open software..Apple gizmos are not very much different.Piling the whole stack into silicon will be the next step..They won't be repairable..They won't be open in any terms .Vendors will obsolete that shit at will at insane rate..We urge need to get rid of these trends...They are already at pace.Software can do much more damage into our lives than old style hardware locksPaul

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:59:54 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 09, 2021, 05:51:30 amI did mention in my post that any smart functionality in that TV is going to be completely unusable after 10 years. Since yes they abandon firmware development and move on to a new TV model.This is why i also said in my post that we have a PC connected to the TV. I actually don't even remember when the tuner inside the TV was even used. Its basically always being used as a huge HDMI monitor, not even the internal speakers are used because there is a separate 5.1 system. So for my use case all i need is the dumbest possible TV that can display 1080p from HDMI.However i KNOW that my use case is not identical to the use case of my neighbor or my neighbors neighbor. Some people like using the smart TV functionalities. Or sometimes i myself find them convenient if i am traveling and happen to have a smart TV in my apartment/hotel/whatever. Out of those that i used i had a pretty good experience with Samsung ones. I haven't used every single brand to know for sure, but i found using it a pleasant experience with Samsung. It was fast and responsive while i could quickly intuitively figure out how the menus work, no notable frustration in using it.Just because you personalty don't have a use for something this doesn't mean that nobody else has.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 10:08:44 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on September 09, 2021, 09:50:21 amWell, maybe I've just looked at the wrong models, because back when 4K was still too expensive, I benchmarked several 2K monitors vs 2K TV sets, and all the TV sets seemed to be doing some sort of scaling so that they weren't using the native panel resolution. Everything looked fuzzy on the TVs compared to real monitors. At that time, the type of ports and specs for the ports on the TVs was much worse than for typical monitors as well. For example, do 4K TVs currently typically support DisplayPort? Even if I need to spend double, for me it's worth it to get a good quality display that will display computer text and graphics clearly, causing me less eye strain. I'm looking at my monitor for most of the day, and a high quality display is one of the top priorities to keep me productive.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 10:48:01 am
content: 4K TV's don't usually have DisplayPort. But every one I have used supports 1:1 pixel perfect rendering so never fuzzy. Don't know what models you are using, my 2012 Panasonic FHD plasma TV supports 1:1. It's been a common feature since HDMI was first a thing.But HDMI 2.0 supports passive DisplayPort adapters. My monitors only have one DisplayPort and two HDMI (one 1.4, one 2.0). I can get 60Hz inputs on them via either the DisplayPort, or the HDMI 2.0 port. (1.4 is max 30Hz so unusable for a desktop.) Since I use my work laptop with them as well as my desktop I have passive cables for the HDMI ports that take my graphics cards' DP signals and route them to the HDMI input, and I use regular DP for the work laptop. The GFX card in my desktop recognises this and switches to HDMI 2.0 mode. This is a standard DP feature.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 11:18:59 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 09, 2021, 10:08:44 amYou probably had problems with image 'enhancement' features in the TV.I run into this most times that i try to feed a HDMI signal into a TV from a PC. The picture looks great when playing a movie, but then when i show a windows desktop on it the picture looks horrible, it feels like i was connecting to the TV over a 20m long VGA cable. The TVs processing takes a pixel perfect image from HDMI and tries to make it 'more perfect'. If you are lucky then there might be a single menu option that turns off all processing on that input. If you are slightly less lucky you might have to turn like 5 different toggles and sliders to 0 and off. However with a lot of TVs i found that the sliders are actually 'turned off' somewhere in the middle. In that case i open up test patterns on the screen and adjust the sliders until the test patterns look correct. Once you find the correct settings you get a nice 1:1 image like on a desktop monitor.The test patterns i like to use for it are these:http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/EDIT:Oh and the video upscalers in TVs have also gotten a lot better these days. So feeding a 1080p image into a 4K TV does make it upscale pretty nicely with sharp text rather than making it fuzzy and blocky.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 11:28:35 am
content: Well, when I'm in the market for another monitor, I'll have to revisit the current state of TVs and see if I can find one suitable that won't process the computer image and make it worse.As for anyone who doesn't want a smart TV, shouldn't it be as simple as not connecting the TV or setting anything up regarding connectivity to make it a normal non-smart TV? If smart TVs are the new norm, then the same with computer monitors, the non-smart TVs will not be as popular, and could even become more expensive than smart TVs. With the last monitor I bought, I discovered that the curved screen monitors were significantly cheaper than flat screens, simply because most of the market for monitors these days is for gamers, of which I'm not one, and find curved screen monitors extremely annoying to the point of almost being unusable.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 11:50:57 am
content: It was not clear to which extent Samsung's kill switch works. Maybe it disables the entire thing so you cant use it even as a monitor.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 11:56:29 am
content: Quote from: Bud on September 09, 2021, 11:50:57 amBut a kill switch will only work if the TV is connected to something. If you never setup the TV to connect to the outside world, they can't trigger the kill switch. Unless for some ridiculous reason they require connection before it's even used.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 12:31:27 pm
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 09, 2021, 11:56:29 amWhich I doubt they will get away with because there are some number of customers buying a TV as just a terrestrial device.Maybe they can send packets on spare space in DVB-T or whatever SA uses? My old Panasonic TV received firmware updates for its freeview receiver that way. They downloaded overnight. No internet connection needed. You could turn off the option though if you wanted.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 08:41:47 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 09, 2021, 07:17:27 amBecause it's common knowledge that virtually all TVs now are smart TVs and "smart" TVs are cheaper than regular TVs precisely because they spy on your viewing habbits and harvest valuable data which is sold to marketers for a profit behind your back. Some of them even have ads now that are displayed within the interface of the TV, regardless of where the content is coming from. The whole world feels saturated with ads to the point that I hate ads so much, and I hate products that I see as a Trojan horse designed to deliver more ads. Also the "smart" aspect is usually pretty terrible, just barely adequate when it's brand new and then within just a few years it isn't getting updated anymore and features stop working. Speaking of updates, that brings its own problem. I still remember one of the first times I ever played with a "smart" TV, I was at my friend's place and we turned it on to watch something and it needed to update, must have taken 20 minutes just to get it through all that by which point I'd forgotten what we were going to watch. It's just stupid and I don't trust any of these companies at all, so I refuse to connect a TV to the internet. It isn't "just another computer", it's a black box, I can't see what it's doing and I can't control what it's doing, and the features it provides me are easily replicated by a box that I CAN seen inside. The choice is simple.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 08:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 09, 2021, 08:08:41 amGenerally speaking, no, they don't, not above a certain size. Even if you have no interest in owning one, go look at the offerings larger than about 32", try to find even one that is just a regular TV, I bet you won't find one. Yes you can buy commercial monitors but they are very expensive relative to consumer TVs due to being a low volume niche item and the fact that smart TVs are subsidized by the data they gather on you. No manufacture tells you that's why they want you to connect it to the internet but it is, the only business reason the smart feature exists is to spy on you, the features it offers are to entice you to connect it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 08:50:51 pm
content: Ah, that all new things must be bad thing. Yes the world is saturated with adds because people won't pay for stuff.Lets seehow many here have youtube premium? thought so,how many here have and add blocker? Ah yes, you useless free loading bastards,how many here just let the adds roll - fair play, you will give away your time so that you don't have to pay for shit, your time cannot be worth much.The world runs on adds because people don't like paying for stuff, but then they will bitch about how these evil bastards are "tracking us".

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 09, 2021, 08:50:51 pmThe world is saturated with ads because they are a side effect of capitalism, a system that I generally like but the ads are definitely a downside, and there are way, way too many of them. The problem is that it becomes an arms race with ads getting more and more annoying trying to rise above the noise floor as people get more and more annoyed trying to tune them out, which makes the ads get louder and more intrusive.No I don't have youtube premium, I don't wish to support that evil company, yes I have an ad blocker, no I don't tolerate pre-roll ads, and no I don't give a damn about the ethics argument. Are you going to complain if I change the TV channel when a commercial comes on? I'm such a freeloading bastard because I dare to turn down the radio or change the station when they start playing ads, I throw the junkmail from my mailbox straight into the recycle bin before I come into the house too, sue me, I don't care. Do you want me to let the ads roll so it gets counted as a view and the company has to pay for a view by a person who is not going to buy their product? What is the point? Isn't it better that I save the bandwidth and save them the cost of advertising to a person that is not going to result in a sale?When ads are not intrusive they don't bother me but ads got more and more and more intrusive and eventually I said ENOUGH and fought back, and now I just don't care. Ads are irrelevant to me, I so rarely buy anything new and what I do buy I research carefully, if anything ads make me LESS likely to buy something. I would think that advertisers would have the sense to realize that there are a percentage of people like me who are just not interested, and the more they try to push in my face the less interested I will become. They should focus on advertising to people who are likely to be swayed, not the people who have clearly said "no! piss off!".Remember the pop-up plague of the early 2000's? The animated banner ads that played loud sound? That is what pushed me to get an ad blocker, before that when it was just banner ads I didn't really mind and ignored them. Once the ads got obnoxious and pushed me to block them I started blocking the banner ads too because now I could and I was annoyed. Sorry but this is totally the fault of the advertising industry, not me. They chose not to respect me so I choose not to respect them. This is their doing, entirely.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 09:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 09, 2021, 08:50:51 pmWell I use Youtube a lot and pay for Premium. I do use adblock/ublock but not for adverts. I just turn remove the filter lists that come with it. I find many of them are behaved now and don't do stuff outside their banner space and a report button on the side of the advert. I'll only block them they are in a fixed position and that goes for any fixed widget or toolbar but there's the FixedHeaderHiderFixer of sticlyducky extension to deal with those.The elements on this list (non advert stuff) is what I use with Adblock to hide:Web UI annoyances Suggestions/page dimming overlays/spinners/animated skeleton placeholder blocklisthttps://pastebin.com/sCrFH1RcDimming overlays (eye hurters) behind dialogues when possible, website preloading overlays (that covers up the contents for a couple of seconds), excessive loading spinners, animated skeleton placeholders (that I find slow the page down on page load), gradients behind video player controls that don't just stop up to it but extend and cover up nearly half of picture when trying to pause/seek and look at stuff in the background or just on mouse hover and many other visually annoying stuff slapped over what I am trying to look at in piece.Now with the tracking cookies (showing stuff you looked at on other sites) that's not a problem for me.I just set different profiles with shortcuts to isolate them.I hear people often moan about tracking on their phones but when want to do everything on their phones and I said with a desktop/laptop they can have so much more control on these sorts of things like I do.Quote from: Bud on September 09, 2021, 11:50:57 amIf the power supply backlight don't go first where it may cost more than what it's worth. I have read about some Samsung TV backlights leds failing after 3 to 4 years and I got one here I'm looking at now, poor ventilation, signs of overheating and around the power supply, some led's not coming and some appearing loose affecting the whole string's I'd have to see when I power the whole board strip up later.Me, now I'd want to buy the screen/monitor without any tuner or anything apart from inputs and put my own equipment with it so they can't firmware brick it when they like.When I last brought a television in a shop many many years ago I remember putting my hand on the back to see how hot they got and to check if had adequate ventilation on there and they still work fine today.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 10:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 09, 2021, 08:50:51 pmMix these two on separate devices, the first on a good device and the second on a cheap/old device. You watch without ads while the second device plays ads out of view. You get the ad free experience, they still get the ad "views". Or that can be done using "ad hiders"/"stealth adblockers" like AdNauseam. The tradeoff is that by its very nature, hiding the ads won't stop tracking, although some inject fake data to impede tracking.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 12:14:29 am
content: I would argue that hiding ads is less ethical than blocking them. By hiding ads you are causing the advertiser to be charged for a false view. By blocking them nobody is getting charged, someone is getting content "for free" but the content was always free, in hopes that it would draw people in to see the ads. You're never going to get a 100% rate, and most of the people who do see the ads still won't result in a sale, that's just business. The best way to ensure that people see ads is to present them with ads that are non intrusive, not obnoxious, not excessively loud, not scammy, not laden with viruses or malware, and not so excessively frequent that they spoil the content.I used to actually watch broadcast TV years ago, there were always ads but for the most part they didn't bother me too much. Then at some point they started getting louder and more frequent, and a significant number of them became so abstract that they just did not resonate with me at all. It eventually got so bad that I just hit my threshold and cut the cord, I switched from watching TV to buying the shows I want on DVD, with no ads. I later ripped all of my discs onto a Plex server and use that for TV, again with no ads. Ads have become so obnoxious that I just ran out of patience, I'm done, I'm accustomed to streaming what I want when I want without being interrupted by ads and I'm never going to go back. The cat is out of the bag.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 12:15:56 am
content: Quote from: AaronLee on September 09, 2021, 11:56:29 amI bet the kill switch is only in the smart part. Any cheap universal scaler board will make the panel work again.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 12:20:58 am
content: Quote from: amyk on September 10, 2021, 12:15:56 amProbably true, but remember the demographic of the typical retail store looter, these are not going to be engineers for the most part, they are mostly petty criminals. If they were smart enough to modify a stolen TV, they'd be able to get a job and just buy a TV legally. This tactic doesn't have to be flawless, but it costs almost nothing to implement and it will deal with the low hanging fruit.Perhaps a GPS receiver that surreptitiously activates in a stolen set and broadcasts the location would be more effective, but that would probably backfire as soon as somebody knowledgeable gets inside the TV and discovers the secret tracking device and makes assumptions. Less chance of backlash by just disabling confirmed stolen devices.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 12:58:09 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2021, 12:14:29 amThe ads that are annoying enough to need blocking arguably would cause the viewer to *not* buy what's being advertised.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 08:25:24 pm
content: Adverts are always going to be around but the insane amount is tiresome but often neccessary. Who would pay for facebook? how many would rather not have adds. I just don't bother to use it.Isn't anyone old enough here to remember the internet before adverts? I am, it was great, the internet was a place full of content. Then the adds came along and look an the cess pit it is now. How many sites exist just for the add revenue? tons, try googling any product and just look at the number of results for sites that claim to tell you about the top 10 of a product in 2021 or the year before if they have not made another senseless page of dribble yet with promoted links to amazon. Often these pages themselves are advertised.The add system has gone from being sensible adds to walls of crap that make up 50% of some sites.But then who does not want free stuff? no such thing as free. I was highly irritated when my brother in law made us all get signal because of the changes to whattsapp. Yet he still has facebook and gave signal no donations. It's a race to the bottom these days.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 10:17:10 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on September 10, 2021, 12:58:09 amWell that's all of them for me. I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw an ad for anything I was actually interested in buying, and I don't even remember the last ad I saw because even if I do see it (such as using youtube on my phone) I mentally tune it out because it's just noise. As I said before, I don't really buy a lot of stuff, I'm not a typical consumer at all. When I do buy something it's because I have already identified a need and go searching for a product, research and read reviews, or if it's an emergency I go to the store and see what they have in stock, look it over and make a choice. Most people buy a lot more random stuff than I do, I mostly buy used, that stuff isn't advertised. Unless you have great deals on interesting surplus items you are wasting your time advertising to me, and if you do advertise, your prices are probably higher than I'm interested in paying because advertising costs a lot of money.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 10:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 10, 2021, 08:25:24 pmI used the internet for the first time in 1996 and there were ads even back then, but they were non-intrusive like the banner ad in this forum. Speaking of that banner ad it is the only online ad I can recall that I have not bothered to block because it is not intrusive, it just sits there, and it is typically for test gear which is at least borderline relevant to my interests. That said, it is still wasted on me because I have zero justification for buying new test gear, there is a virtually 0% chance that it's going to result in a sale no matter how many times I see that Keysight banner.I never minded paying for things, for many years I subscribed to several electronics magazines. Unfortunately some of the better ones went out of publication, EPE was still very good but the paper copy was exorbitantly expensive in the US so I subscribed to the digital version. Then they changed to some DRM encumbered mess called Pocketmags that I was never able to even get working so I gave up and let my subscription expire. I kept getting Nuts & Volts for several years but I realized I was getting about 5 minutes of interesting reading when a new issue arrived and the projects were often of low quality hacked together "maker" stuff or just of no interest to me and I finally let it expire. The magazines just couldn't compete with the plethora of interesting projects published online for free. I used to pay for cable TV too but it started getting more and more ads despite the fact I was paying for it, and then all the channels got those stupid logos floating in the corner that never go away, and even animated ad banners with sound that pop up and obstruct what I'm trying to watch, then of course the flood of all that "reality" garbage. They broadcasters cheapened the content to the point that it was no longer worth watching and I cut the cord and never looked back.A lot of people early on decided that everything on the internet could be free and supported by ads though so everyone just developed a mentality expecting things to be free. It's going to be extremely hard to reverse this because unlike the physical world, it is almost zero effort to shop around online. If I'm in Home Depot and find something I like but I know I can buy it cheaper at Lowes I have to factor in the cost in fuel and time to drive from one store to another. If I'm online looking at something on Amazon and I see it cheaper on ebay, it costs me nothing to just hop over to ebay. If I see a teaser for an interesting sounding news article and it takes me to a paywall, I can almost always just search for the headline and find the same article or another similar article on the same topic somewhere free.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2021, 03:06:29 am
content: I wonder if the Internet might largely go back to the P2P model. Nowadays, it's cheaper than ever to run your own server with cheap, low power platforms like Raspberry Pi.

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2021, 02:09:00 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on September 08, 2021, 10:12:14 pm"the various apps likeyoutube..."Quote from: eti on September 08, 2021, 10:51:30 pm"The "smart" TV manufacturers are NOTORIOUS forabandoning their shitty products..."Several years ago I got an email from Sony saying they will turn off the YouTube app on my fairly new Sony TV on a specific date.That date arrives, and no more YouTube.I paid for that function, and they just delete it.So I had to go buy an external box (which turned out to be better).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2021, 06:40:38 pm
content: The annoying thing is that youtube has not really changed noticeably in at least a decade (that aspect I like) but the amount of CPU power required to play the video has increased greatly to the point that old PCs and devices that used to stream youtube just fine no longer can. That part I don't like. I doubt there are any early generation smart TVs that can still stream youtube.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2021, 09:21:41 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 10, 2021, 08:25:24 pmI have seen some websites doing the spammy things (not the adverts themselves) with the placements of the adverts like a few putting them in a fixed position over the contents, making them appear all of a sudden over the contents with offers and some dim the background and cutting me off which I find down right rude and insulting (not so much the dialogue in itself but the dimming)I remembered Sky news some years ago putting the same advert at either sides of the page and saw other sites doing it for while making them flash at the same time, also in a fixed position when they could just leave in absolute positioning allowing it to scroll inline with the rest of the page like 20 years ago and put many more underneath where they'd have a better chance of me clicking something of interest instead banking their hopes on two large pf the same distracting banners thinking that would appeal to me.I have seen a lot of clickbait looking stuff on and news websites starting a few years ago but now I know what to avoid when I suspect a link with a thumbnail what looks to me like a stock photo and I remember too many times leading something like questionnaires, survey's and offers "This item has taken the UK by surprise."Quote from: james_s on September 12, 2021, 06:40:38 pmIs this like playing 1 - 4k video or with just 360/480p.My old quad core laptop manages 1k/1448p video just fine which is good enough for me.I find the Youtube elements below is what really slows the page load down and when I hover the cursor over the thumbnails they start playing really fast which is not something I want. I find it looks a lot better hiding the UI decorations and other crap I don't to see but "Allow Acceptable Ads" if using ABP must be unticked or it seems to ignore some of them.Code:youtube.com##.ytp-doubletap-static-circleyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-ui.ytp-time-seekingyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-fast-forward-veyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-rewind-veyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-rippleyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-overlay-a11yyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-seek-info-containeryoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-arrows-containeryoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-base-arrowyoutube.com##.ytp-doubletap-tooltipyoutube.com##.ytp-chapter-seek-textyoutube.com##.modal-dialog-bg.b3-modal-dialog.b3-modal-dialog-quantumyoutube.com##.b3id-page-overlay-spinner.b3-page-overlay-spinneryoutube.com##.b3id-page-overlay-spinneryoutube.com##.b3id-page-overlayyoutube.com##.b3id-spinner-section.b3-spinner-sectionyoutube.com##.b3id-spinner-sectionyoutube.com##.b3-spinner-sectionyoutube.com##.b3-page-overlay-spinneryoutube.com##.ytp-progress-bar-paddingyoutube.com##.ytp-load-progressyoutube.com##.ytp-hover-progress.ytp-hover-progress-lightyoutube.com##.ytp-scrubber-button.ytp-swatch-background-coloryoutube.com##.ytp-hover-progress-lightyoutube.com##.ytp-cued-thumbnail-overlay-imageyoutube.com##ytd-miniplayeryoutube.com##.ytd-thumbnail-overlay-side-panel-renderer.ytd-thumbnail.style-scopeyoutube.com###chipsyoutube.com##.style-scope.yt-chip-cloud-rendereryoutube.com##.focused-lineyoutube.com###selectionBaryoutube.com##yt-page-navigation-progressyoutube.com###fadeyoutube.com###avataryoutube.com###home-container-skeletonyoutube.com###home-page-skeletonyoutube.com###hover-overlaysyoutube.com###interstitialyoutube.com###masthead-skeleton-iconsyoutube.com###mouseover-overlayyoutube.com###progressyoutube.com###related-skeletonyoutube.com###scrimyoutube.com###spinneryoutube.com###spinnerContaineryoutube.com###spinner-containeryoutube.com###tooltipyoutube.com##.active.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.annotation.annotation-type-textyoutube.com##.annotation-shape.annotation-popup-shape.annotation-type-textyoutube.com##.autoplay.skeleton-light-border-bottom.hiddenyoutube.com##.banner-visible-area.style-scope.ytd-c4-tabbed-header-rendereryoutube.com##.circle.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.circle-clipper.left.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.ghp-inApp-loading.ng-scopeyoutube.com##.ghp-spinner.ghp-spinner-largeyoutube.com##.gssb_eyoutube.com##.gssb_fyoutube.com##.gstl_50youtube.com##.html5-endscreenyoutube.com##.html5-endscreen-contentyoutube.com##.video-skeletonyoutube.com##.inner-textyoutube.com##.meta-skeletonyoutube.com##.openedyoutube.com##.paper-rippleyoutube.com##.reloading.style-scope.ytd-item-section-rendereryoutube.com##.skeleton-bg-coloryoutube.com##.skeleton-light-border-bottomyoutube.com##.spinner-containeryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-1.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-2.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-3.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-4.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-5.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-6.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-7.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-8.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-9.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-10.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-11.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.layer-12.style-scope.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.spinner-layer.paper-spinneryoutube.com##.style-scope.ytd-badge-supported-rendereryoutube.com##.text-shell.skeleton-bg-coloryoutube.com##.thumbnail.skeleton-bg-coloryoutube.com##.video-detailsyoutube.com##.wavesyoutube.com##.ytd-thumbnail-overlay-hover-text-rendereryoutube.com##.ytd-thumbnail-overlay-side-panel-rendereryoutube.com##.ytp-bezelyoutube.com##.ytp-ce-covering-overlayyoutube.com##.ytp-ce-elementyoutube.com##.ytp-chapter-title.ytp-button.ytp-chapter-container-disabledyoutube.com##.ytp-chrome-topyoutube.com##.ytp-fullerscreen-edu-chevronyoutube.com##.ytp-fullerscreen-edu-textyoutube.com##.ytp-gradient-bottomyoutube.com##.ytp-gradient-topyoutube.com##.ytp-miniplayer-button.ytp-buttonyoutube.com##.ytp-next-button.ytp-buttonyoutube.com##.ytp-prev-button.ytp-buttonyoutube.com##.ytp-scroll-min.ytp-pause-overlayyoutube.com##.ytp-scrubber-pull-indicatoryoutube.com##.ytp-share-button-visibleyoutube.com##.ytp-size-button.ytp-buttonyoutube.com##.ytp-spinneryoutube.com##.ytp-title-link.yt-uix-sessionlinkyoutube.com##.ytp-previewyoutube.com##.ytp-tooltip-text.ytp-tooltip-titleyoutube.com##.ytp-tooltip-imageyoutube.com##.ytp-tooltip-bgyoutube.com##.politeyoutube.com##.extended.downyoutube.com##.stroke.style-scope.yt-interactionyoutube.com##.fill.style-scope.yt-interactionyoutube.com##div#theater-background.player-heightyoutube.com##.style-scope.ytd-rich-section-rendereryoutube.com##.style-scope.ytd-horizontal-card-list-rendereryoutube.com###moreyoutube.com##.thumbnail-container.style-scope.ytd-movie-rendereryoutube.com##.text-wrapper.style-scope.ytd-movie-rendereryoutube.com##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you find the Youtube pages load a bit quicker hiding the above elements?Quote from: Gary350z on September 12, 2021, 02:09:00 pmI wonder what would have happen if you set system updates and "app" updates off would the "app" still be there even if it stopped working?If I had one of those and say I managed prevent it from deleting the app and found it still worked fine with Youtube way past that date I'd be furious to the fact it is intended that I have no control over it, they betrayed my trust*(see below), they can do what they like and I'd feel the television never belonged to me in the first place.https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00113306QuoteIt would have been nice to say why they are removing the "app" whether it is a technical limitation or so.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2021, 09:49:28 pm
content: Two recent changes I've seen to ad presentation that are definite pet peeves:1) They cleverly compose the page such that the "Next Page" button is below an ad which doesn't render to its full size at first. When you move the pointer to click to the next page, the ad suddenly renders which pushes the button down the page, and you end up clicking on the ad. Happens far too often, on far too many different sites, to be an accident. Technically clever but infuriating.2) Some sites now seem to have a "master" hyperlink that is activated no matter which link on the page is clicked, and of course it takes you to an ad site. Back-arrowing to the original page then lets you click on the actual links.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 05:26:25 am
content: Quote from: Gary350z on September 12, 2021, 02:09:00 pmNever seen them kill off apps like that, rather frustrating indeed. Tho what i tend to see happen is that the stuff just stops getting updated and eventually apps and similar just become so old that they stop being compatible with the backend servers and just stop working.This is also one of the things that renders old Android phones useless. At some point the never updated OS becomes so old that almost no app can be installed on it due to being deemed incompatible.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 12:48:35 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on September 14, 2021, 05:26:25 amIf it's not too obscure of a device, there's a good chance XDA will have some usable builds for it.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 01:33:47 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on September 14, 2021, 05:26:25 ampanasonic does that, too. As you say the app is not updated, then something changes in the backend and the thing doesn't work anymore (in my case it happened more or less when everything had to go HTTPS - the internal browser stopped working as well, though the thing was rather useless and i already used a chromecast for control and direct stream from PC)I don't blame them 100%, at some point you really want to abandon the old hardware which causes you nothing but headscratches (and for what? taking the android example i look at my apps and i have less than 10 installations on devices with 5.0 or earlier, they were cut off from updates. No complaints so far, the apps work anyway)

author: neil555
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 03:39:50 pm
content: For anyone wanting a large dumb screen with lots of inputs ...https://www.sharpnecdisplays.com/p/eeme/en/products/choice.xhtml?mg=ESSENTIAL&cat=PublicDisplaysI've got the older E437Q and it's fantastic

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 04:08:12 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on September 13, 2021, 09:49:28 pmSpeaking of pet peeves:Why the fsck does content on a paid service have any ads at all?Now the advertiser apologists love to say, "you wouldn't have free content without ads, so that is the deal."Then cable TV was introduced. Youpayfor the service. Yet the service has ads.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 04:20:58 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 10, 2021, 10:30:37 pmI don't mind the Keysight banners.I find the animated JCLPCB ads to be obnoxious and distracting, so I will probably actively avoid them when it comes to PCB builds.I immediately scroll them off the screen. Therefore the Keysight banner gets blocked out anyway. Guilt by association.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 05:03:23 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on September 14, 2021, 04:08:12 pmIt didn't used to. Originally when cable TV came out there were no ads, you paid for the service. Then they figured out they could add ads and people would still pay for the service, so they make even more money. One of the most annoying aspects about pay TV services is the bulk of your bill goes to pay for sports channels, a category which I have zero interest in across the board.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2021, 05:32:06 am
content: It gets even worse.We have a national radio/TV station much like the British BBC that we also have to pay for. They don't care if you watch it, as long as you have a TV (and they assume everyone does) you have to pay for it, much like the BBC. However unlike the BBC they are allowed to have ads just like any other TV station. They also often get the live broadcasts of the big events such as the Olympics where the price of ads is astronomical.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 02:03:56 am
content: I find amusing that TV licensing practice existing is some countries. I should be paid money to watch governement's shit, not the other way around.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 02:12:54 am
content: I'm not opposed to the idea of public TV, as far as I know it isn't a propaganda channel or something. A TV license may have even made sense back when a lot of people didn't have a TV but when it is assumed that everyone has one then it may as well just be a tax so people don't have to think about it. As someone who doesn't watch broadcast TV and hasn't for probably 20 years I would be highly annoyed at having to pay a fee to support the station. If there was a station that had no ads and no on-screen logos I might actually watch it though. Unfortunately even if you can get away from ads, you won't get away from those worthless obnoxious logos.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 10:40:36 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 16, 2021, 02:12:54 amThe BBC in the UK doesn't have and advertising, except for its own programmes. Unfortunately it is horribly biased and full of propaganda, but it reflects the political views of the people running it, more than the government. I have paid my TV licence up until April this year, but will not renew it when it's due. I no longer watch it and I'm sick of its left-wing propaganda and the way it lies by omission, by choosing not to report things which don't suit its agenda.In some respects the news is better in the US. If you watch Fox, you know it's Tump loving, whilst CNN is the opposite.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 02:18:10 pm
content: It is a truism that the BBC is politically biased to the opposite of what one's personal political prejudices are. I would suggest that precisely because right-wingers say the BBC is full of leftists and that left-wingers say it's full of smug middle class Tory voters that it's probably doing quite a good job of treading the thin line where it isn't biased. I would however agree that BBC news, in fact all television news reporting, is remarkably shallow.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 04:11:20 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 16, 2021, 02:18:10 pmThat's funny because I'm in the centre, so should think the BBC are not biased, but I do. Take for example how they've reported on the BLM riots last year, which were portrayed to be "peeceful demonstrations" inspite of all the vandalism. There was no mention made, of the neo-Marxist ideology behind the BLM organisation, who were shown in a positive light, when in reality many black people themselves, dislike them. Then there's the lack of coverage of the anti-lockdown demonstrations, which went on throughout the country, between March last year and July 2021.I could post links to their website, where they promote contensious topics such as critical race theory, without questioning them, but I don't want to be accused of turning this into a political thread. I have no issue with the BBC writing about contraversial topics, but it should be done in an impartial manner, which they've failing to do.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 04:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on September 16, 2021, 04:11:20 pmMass media cannot be impartial because it would break their business model. People don't get passionate about centrism or moderation. Media is funded by advertising, which targets likely buyers of the product being advertised, who are emotionally driven, and strong emotions are better drivers of purchasing decisions.My $0.02 on this subtopic: I consume "reporting" from an intentionally wide spectrum of political viewpoints, to keep track of what the crazies are thinking. The hilarious part is that the extremes on all sides of the spectrum sound way more alike than different. There's just as many batfreak crazy conspiracy theories, just as many "for your own good" "because we know better" desired infringements on individual liberties, on the left and right and up and down as anywhere else. If you invert the polarities and change a few nouns you couldn't tell one from another. Yet they all think "the others" are evil incarnate. News flash: The weirdos could substitute for each other pretty easily. And because they are loud and flamboyant, they get all the news coverage.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 04:59:49 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on September 16, 2021, 04:53:02 pmYou seem to have completely missed the point that the BBC, which is the broadcaster being discussed, isNOTfunded by advertising.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 05:21:50 pm
content: Well, yeah, I triggered on the wrong data. Sorry.Closest thing we have here in the States is National Public Radio (NPR), which is funded by a combination of government and private donations ("memberships"). It swings a bit left but isn't as horribly biased as advertising funded outlets.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 09:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on September 16, 2021, 04:53:02 pmIt's kind of annoying that it's necessary. I have to check the left wing and right wing news sites and then try to interpolate something resembling a reality from what they cover. I find it both interesting and unfortunate how widely divergent they are, even when covering the same event. Then of course there are many events that are covered by only one and completely ignored by the other. I really wish some would at least pretend to be centrist and impartial.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 09:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 16, 2021, 09:06:52 pmI promise, somedopretend to be centrist and impartial. With "pretend" being the key word in that statement. Your approach, "I have to check the left wing and right wing news sites and then try to interpolate something resembling a reality from what they cover", is really the only proper thing to do. One must gather as much data as possible and then use critical thinking skills to interpolate something close to the truth on your own. The only safe presumption is that everyone in media and government has an agenda they're trying to sell you.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 11:38:34 pm
content: It drives me absolutely nuts, some are worse than others, but most of the really mainstream news at least in the USA is sharply biased, the shrill voiced hype and hysteria is over the top, hyperbole all over the place. This or that group of people is evil and is destroying the country, this law is the worst thing ever and does this, that and the other thing! Then you read the actual law and it does nothing of the sortI would love to blame one side or the other but they BOTH do it, and they BOTH claim that only the other side is doing it, or that the other side is worse. The curse of being a centrist independent is that politically I have no home, the lefties think I'm a right winger and the right wingers think I'm a leftie. I can piss off everybody.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 05:08:31 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 16, 2021, 11:38:34 pmAnd the worst part is that they defend against this reality with accusations of "whataboutism". As if that's some sort of legitimate refutation of actual facts. That your opposition did something wrong does not justify your own wrong behavior, but you'd never know that to read or listen to these shriekers.The good news is that I'm reading and hearing many more people saying what you are. That they see through the smokescreen, they recognize the hypocrisy. I'm optimistic that people are waking up, ignoring the spins from both sides, and realizing that their neighbors aren't the problem. Politicians and their media are the problem, seeking to pit we regular folk against each other.I've travelled all over the world, to many countries under many different forms of government, and thepeopleare all the same. They love their families, they work hard, they pursue their dreams just like everyone else. It's the politicians who screw things up. It appears to be a universal constant. Yet here in the States, we have a federal recividism - er, excuse me, reelection - rate of over 90%. We truly get the government we deserve.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 05:17:55 am
content: Bringing up "whataboutism" is just a method of dismissal, it's a euphemism for "shut up", nothing more.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 08:03:06 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on September 16, 2021, 09:57:40 pmThat statement applies to the BBC. The problem is, the organisation is filled with a particular type of people, with similar backgrounds and political views. They attempt to be impartial, but it becomes obvious they're not, by the spin they put on certain stories and more importantly, what they choose not to report.I really started losing faith in the BBC when it was discovered they employed Britains most prolific paedophile and helped to shelter him and cover up his crimes. I've known they were biased for a long time, but it's really become more obvious in the last 18 months, so I've tuned out.