Tube Kickstarter Program - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 02:32:40 am
content: Getting close to a Vacuum Tube manufacturing Kickstarter project. Trying to gauge interest. Any thoughts? Depending on how much money I could raise would determine what I could do. With what I have now I can make simple tubes not unlike things from the 20's and 30's. To make something like a 12AX7 would require hundreds of thousands for tooling alone. Its all a matter of scale. As it is now I work out of my lab, but I can use production time at M.U. incorporated who is owned by a friend of mine and makes top notch stuff for the government but has no interest in the audio market, or I can set up a new shop ground up.

author: minibutmany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 04:44:49 pm
content: I believe manufacturing tubes in the US was outlawed, you could do it in your basement but I doubt any manufacturing company would do it for you.

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 05:29:30 pm
content: ^^^Why should it be illegal to manufacture something that is obsolete ? It's like outlawing the manufacture of flintlock pistols!

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 06:03:29 pm
content: Audio market? Just use some old wholesale tubes from eBay, but don't connect it and use a DSP fo the "warm sound", and then add some yellow LEDs for the glow like Behringer didhttp://www.audiomasterclass.com/is-that-the-vacuum-tube-glowing-or-yellow-leds-behind-it

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 06:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: minibutmany on December 22, 2013, 04:44:49 pmTube making is not illegal. Where would you get that sort of idea from? Additionally there are more audio tubes sold now than since the mid 70's It is a hobby market and will remain so. Should DIY digital electronics go away simply because we have Amazon that can deliver anything to you cheaper the next day? Why do people still buy Glass drink ware when polycarbonate glasses are so widely available? Etc etc....

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 05:05:48 pm
content: Quote from: minibutmany on December 22, 2013, 04:44:49 pmo.O - that seems a little unlikely; Electro Harmonix, at least, are based in NYC.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 08:26:13 pm
content: I can say with absolute authority that Tube manufacturing is NOT illegal anywhere.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 08:40:13 pm
content: Quote from: calexanian on December 23, 2013, 08:26:13 pmCan you vouch for North Korea?

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 10:25:16 pm
content: Rumor has it they are still making tubes there. A friend of mine in the Clinton "lets give crap to north Korea days" was over there as a geologist for the "Clean" reactors we were giving them and made mention of tubes still being in wide use.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 02:36:06 am
content: I think you should make giant Nixies. There's probably more money in power triodes though.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 04:17:31 am
content: Roni actually has made Nixies. The surplus Russian ones are cheap enough that there really is no profit in them. It would be fun to make some HUGE ones though.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 04:30:08 am
content: Quote from: calexanian on December 24, 2013, 04:17:31 amCheck out the price of IN-18s, let alone B7971s.

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 05:24:47 am
content: Quote from: calexanian on December 23, 2013, 08:26:13 pmI can say with absolute authority that tube manufacturing is illegal in plenty of places. Examples: in the middle of a runway, war graves, inside my mouth without my express permission, Yellowstone national park, Westminster Abbey etc. etc.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 05:29:39 am
content: Quote from: komet on December 24, 2013, 05:24:47 amYes, getting a reliable supply of oxygen and gas for the torches might be a problem in some of those locations. Also I do not think the muffle furnace would do well either..

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 05:32:09 am
content: Who needs a fancy spot welder when you have Harbor freight, some safety hook wire, a 10 amp variac, some springs, and an afternoon.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 03:54:09 pm
content: I don't get it... it looks like you started with a spot welder, and made it into a spot welder

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 06:14:31 pm
content: Look up the cost of a micro welder used for that sort of work. Then look up the price of a cheap harbor freight one. Then you will see what I mean. Also the welds are actually cleaner than a capacitive discharge type that is all the rage in battery terminal welders right now. I am starting to think this is really not the forum to discuss this sort of thing. People are a bit to removed from electro mechanical here.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 07:06:07 pm
content: Nice to see a decent welder made up out of things though. I was looking at making one myself, but aside from having no use I just rewound a transformer to do it, and it does work. Just needs the electrodes and a holder, and something less lethal than bare wiring on the transformer. It is not going to overheat though ,as I use 00 gauge cable as a secondary.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 07:33:29 pm
content: For small gauge things 00 will work. Copper strap is best of course, but thats not to say that there are not many out there that just use parallel windings of cable. The duty cycle is so low on a spot welder that getting the energy to the weld spot is more important than overheating. Welding jaw and rod are available from McMaster Carr. I am using 1/8" rod for the electrodes. I can put a good weld in up to 18GA steel or .100" Monel rod. Way over blown for tube or battery tab end work. On my 120V harbor freight welder I apply 70V from the variac for small diameter wire or .01 thick nickel up to 110V to weld .01 nickel sheet to that .1" monel rod. Handy range. All with that 1/8" electrode material. It is critical you use that electrode material as it does not stick as pure copper would to the piece you are welding. It used to be called Mallory Alloy and is copper with some chrome I believe and a few other things to harden it. It also makes it hold a better point when you file it. One of the ladies who works for us used to work on the semiconductor line at Fairchild in the early 60's (Yes she knew Bill Noyce and drank at the wagon wheel with them all) and she talks of the spot welders they used to use to do the wire bonding. They were actually borrowed from the tube industry and the father of a friend of mine down in Oceanside used to make those welders and leak checkers and all that sort of kit for the tube and semiconductor industries. He was also the one who founded M.U. after buying the assets from the Hughes company Electron Tube Products division and still to this day his daughter makes the 2C53 triode and the 6303 clipper diode.

author: flapjackboy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 23, 2013, 08:40:13 pmYou mean Best Korea, surely.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:47:14 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on December 22, 2013, 06:03:29 pmKorg just did something like that in a keyboard. Awesome!

author: minibutmany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:14:17 pm
content: I will admit I was wrong to say that tube manufacturing itself was illegal, but the use of mercury is. Most tubes now don't contain mercury but it used to be more common in the old rectifiers. Electro Harmonix does not actually make their own tubes in NYC. "Electro-Harmonix stopped making pedals in the mid-1980s, and in the early 1990s started selling vacuum tubes re-branded with its name for guitar amplifiers" as seen on wikipedia.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:43:40 pm
content: Mike Mathewes owner of Electroharmonics married a Russian woman who was part manager of the Reflector tube plant. I have had a few conversations with her and him, but mostly her over the years. The story of that plant is more political than technical. They also have a close tie in with the expo pul plant who makes the 12AX7's that they label 12Ax7WB and WB. Mr Mathewes is more into the pedal electronics than the actual tubes. They make pedals in both Russia and some in their shop in New York. The ones from Russia however are fading away as costs to produce here in the states go down in comparison. I have bought a couple of their pedals from the recent ones made in New York. They are not bad. Pretty standard in quality and for the price they are ok.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 06:50:32 am
content: Quote from: minibutmany on December 26, 2013, 06:14:17 pmNope, not in the US. (And very few tubes contain or ever contained mercury.)

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 07:00:34 am
content: With all but certain rectifiers mercury is the last thing you want anywhere near a inside of a tube. All it will do is arc! Its why there is so much of it in floro tubes, to get it to jump the arc all the way across it! There is more mercury in one modern floro light than in an entire factory of amplifier tubes! Ignoring mercury rectifiers and thyratrons of course.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2014, 05:38:16 am
content: A little update..Kinda ugly looking seal, but I have not used a glass lathe in quite a while and it is soft glass which is very hard to work with when you don't have an annealing oven. I am just testing the Moly ribbon as a filament. Its coated with triple carbonate and the anode is just a flag of nickel.Sealed and getter flashed. The filament appeared to activate properly. I ran it up to 4 amps current which was near yellow heat. That was a little hot for activation. Its typically done at bright orange or flaking can occur. Red/Orange and uniform heating was reached at 3 amps filament current with an Eb/Ib of up to 25ma at 100 volts. there is 2 inches of filament. Its down quite a bit from nickel with reducing agents but for just a pure base metal that is not bad. It is a bit gassy. At over 100 volts there is a definite gas current but it does not avalanche so the getter may sorption the rest over night. Since the anode was just a flag I could not heat it very well with RF bombardment and it will most likely outgas badly. I will make a cylindrical anode next time so I can outgas it more throughly. Also I did not have the Diffusion pump in the system and sealed at about 20 micron. That was normal in receiving tube production to seal that high in pressure but the parts were made to outgas quickly through bombardment and the glass was still screaming hot from sealing ensuring the evolution of gas post sealing would be low. Also my home made gland fitting did not have the proper O ring in it hence the tube of vacuum grease. Under dead head that pump should get down to 5 micron or even less so I had a very small leak in the gland o ring.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 06:12:06 pm
content: VERY cool! Any chance of plotting and sharing some curves from that tube?Years ago, I built a VERY crude triode in a peanut butter jar as a high school physics class project. Unfortunately, between the seals through the metal lid and the limitations of the available vacuum pump, we were never able to achieve a hard enough vacuum to get it acting as more than a thyratron....

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:37:44 am
content: Its just a diode. the Eb/Ib runs up to 100 volts at which point it begins to ionize. Since the anode is just a flag of nickel I was not able to outgas it completely. Monday i will make another with a cylindrical anode to allow better out gassing. That is using a .001 X .05 moly filament about 2.5 inches long. Pure moly so there is no reducing chemical in it. That was coated in triple carbonate. I reached a peak emission of 25ma which for just pure moly as a base metal is not bad. I have some real deal nickel/cobalt with a touch of chrome filaments that I know are really good. They are actually filaments for 596 rectifiers which are the same as 5R4's. When I get my system all in shape i will start playing with those. Until then I don't want to waste them. Plenty of experimenting to do for the time being with moly, pure nickel, and tungsten. I would actually like to try playing with thoria bonded tungsten. Its all around the more forgiving. Ultimately however I would like to come up with some small possibly surface mount triodes for people to mostly just play with. Something with a little geek sheik factor. Perhaps even surface mount power tubes since people use FR4 these days and it can take the heat so to speak. There is no need to re invent the wheel. I want something new and cool, and to be in the position one day that if Russia and china say to heck with it, i can at least do something. I just heard however that JJ died and his son is taking over the company. I have met them both a number of times and I believe this will actually be a good thing. The son is competent and has been shadowing his dad for man years now. I am also kinda eyeballing the lowly 45 triode. They are a very easy design to build. Wide tolerances and kinda cool looking. I would have to sell them for like $60 each, but there may be a novelty market in it. What would you think being you are the only person actually reading this thread! I could also do a nice package with 4 tubes and two output transformers type of thing. Kinda sharp looking.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 02:21:08 am
content: Quote from: komet on December 24, 2013, 05:24:47 amThe Queen's bog?

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 08:45:09 pm
content: I should start another thread. Places where things can't or should not be done. O0

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 04:58:39 am
content: That don't look too good. 3.5 X 10-4Oh, thats why.. its a pile of junk on the garage floor! hahahahaha.... I need a cold trap. I froze the inlet tube and the pressure dropped big time. A trap and some liquid nitrogen will get me where I need to be. I will get one of those nice rubbermaid carts and make it all pretty like the green unit in the background. That particular unit was from Hughes Electron Products and built in the late 40's early 50's and it still works.