How does RAM and SSD work nowadays? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 02:30:55 pm
content: Hey guys,Ive been trying to learn how does RAM and SSDs work. All I get is the manufacturing process of the PCBs for the RAM sticks or Flash Drive units. I tried reading and watching videos about the history of it and all the hole-punching, magnetic and CD/DVD part of it makes sense to me and I think I have an idea of how they work.After getting into electronics, I learned a bit about IC dies and how processors work but solid state memory is still a mystery.I heard that there are some types like DRAM that use a capacitor that when charged up indicates a single bit being high (presence of voltage) and that its main power consumption comes from keeping those capacitors charged up given the normal leakage capacitors have.But SSDs and RAM appear to have no batteries and will keep their data for a pretty long time (at least compared to the "common" leakage I see in capacitors when dealing with discrete components).It is rather surprising the small amount of information out there about that given that nearly all of us use that technology almost every day.Can someone direct me to a website about that? Or give me an explanation of what in the world is going on?Im ready to call bullshit on all this memory thing and say that we are living in the Matrix.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 02:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: AngraMelo on December 31, 2018, 02:30:55 pmIs that a troll post?There are tons of detailed info available through a simple Google search about DRAM and Flash...RAM loses contents when power is lost. Actually DRAM loses contents within seconds even when powered so has to be refreshed continuously.

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:19:27 pm
content: Not a troll post at all!I read more than a dozen different websites about that and none of them said that when RAM is turned off it looses the storage memory.Also I still cant find anything about the SSD that explains how it works.Why would I go to such lengths to write a troll post?

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:25:37 pm
content: Another thing,"my" google is not the same as "your" google.All my settings (Browser, windows, gmail accounts...) are set to USA and english to force google and Youtube to look for results in english but even me switching everything to "american" settings and using Chrome addons to prevent sites from tracking me, they still to (YT will switch my account location almost daily to Brazil) and I get a lot of results in Portuguese.Im not a lazy douche trying to have a laugh. I spent a couple of hours to get the answers and I just could not.On my first post I even described what Ive found.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:38:30 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on December 31, 2018, 02:48:38 pmThat is uncalled for and unnecessarily rude.Quote from: Kilrah on December 31, 2018, 02:48:38 pmSo why don't you help him out with a few relevant links? Not everyone's abilities are the same. He may have a very slow connection, he may not know what terms to search for, there may be other reasons.If you feel the question is not worth your time then the polite thing to do is move on. No need to be insulting.

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:43:34 pm
content: One starting point for research learning stuff might be the Wikipedia. Yes, there's no Portugese entry for FLASH nor RAM, but the english pages seem to be very detailed.Even if your google is different than others: Directing it to English search results leads usually to Wikipedia entries if searched for technical stuff. By the way: I use startpage.com and it does that too. The tracking is easily done: Your IP address is telling a lot (including which ISP you're using). Unless you're using a VPN or other kind of tunnel that can't be switched off. But that's rather off-topic.Edit: Added missing 'Portuguese' in the first chapter

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 03:49:14 pm
content: My goodness! Thank you so much!I got completely different results using that website!Im going to check them out.Thanks again!

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 05:14:33 pm
content: You haven't stated which type of RAM and which type of SSD memory.Ok, I'll choose for you. There are differences...Here are the internals of a SDRAM chip:https://youtu.be/8zhr72a6tqQHere are the internals of a Flash NV rams memory chips work:

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 07:23:39 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on December 31, 2018, 03:38:30 pmReally?He didn't word his post as "hey I'm interested in this but can't find info, can you help me?" which would have been no issue, but downright "I can't find any so it must not exist and I call BS until you point me straight to it". If that's not trolling...It might have been intended as a joke but didn't come out as one, it came out as "I can't be bothered to look it up, do it for me".

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 09:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on December 31, 2018, 03:38:30 pmPerhaps there is no need to be insulting. However the quality of questions and postings here is deteriorating. I would love to have suggestions on non-insulting ways to discourage bullshit trollish posts. If he is "getting into electronics" - and actually reads the spec sheets, googles for terms he did not understand - there would have been no need for his post. He clearly did not even get far enough in his queries to learn what RAM means.Please propose your own methods. Calling someone's response "insulting" is actually not exactly polite either.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 02:07:05 pm
content: Soldar is the new forum cop. He seems to be new to the world of online posting.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 02:10:55 pm
content: Quote from: In Vacuo Veritas on January 02, 2019, 02:07:05 pmFrankly someone's ass needs to be spanked by forum cops. I would stay silent in your place.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 02:12:17 pm
content: Do you need a safe space? Or a hug? 2019 seems off to a rough start for you?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 02:14:11 pm
content: Quote from: In Vacuo Veritas on January 02, 2019, 02:12:17 pmNo I don't and I'm against those. As for you, IMO it would be safer stay isolated from society.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 04:19:59 pm
content: Quote from: AngraMelo on December 31, 2018, 03:25:37 pmI'm not having the problem you do. If I type "How does a RAM work?", all the results are in English. I don't need any special settings. I even tried other languages. Comment fonctionne une RAM? give me all the results in French. Wie funktioniert ein RAM? gave me all German. Even Russian is no problem: Как работает RAM?But I don't use Chrome.As for the information you're looking for, Wikipedia is a good starting point:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAMhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_driveThe confusion you are experiencing is perhaps because DRAMs, which are Dynamic RAMs, use capacitance as a means of temporarily storing information. However, they are called Dynamic because their tiny capacitors can't retain information for a long time, so they need to be refreshed periodically (in the range of milliseconds, that is), and that requires them to be on. As soon as you turn them off, the capacitors will not retain their charge.And SSDs can be DRAM based, which can employ batteries to maintain the refreshing going on. In fact when you put your laptop to sleep mode, that's exactly what you do: you turn everything else off, and keep the DRAM being refreshed, basically.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:12:24 am
content: The beginners section ought to be exclusively reserved for helpful replies that foster a welcoming tone for new and inexperienced people. Whether or not the information sought is readily discoverable by experienced people is irrelevant. People like to interact with people and seek out others who will make them feel welcome. If you don't have a helpful response don't feel compelled to respond. And if you genuinely feel someone is trolling definitely don't respond. In the Beginners section the response is less welcome than thepossibleoffence.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:46:24 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 03, 2019, 12:12:24 amThen why are you quoting my post? It was certainly against behavior that you mentioned. "Someone" I was meaning is a guy in vacuum.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:40:47 am
content: We have Brazilian users in this forum too, and they can certainly find things (one of them not long ago managed to find a component marking that I couldn't...) so your country should not be an obstacle.As mentioned above the Wikipedia is a good start. For more in-depth, follow the references from there and to lecture slides of EE courses, and then go find datasheets and read them if you really want to know more.

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 07:07:01 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 03, 2019, 04:40:47 amIve never said I cant find anything I search for. It was clear from my post I was having trouble finding information on this particular topic. Ive never created a thread or asked anything here without spending some time trying to learn it first.Perhaps I should try to make clear what happened.Usually, when Im searching for something as common as RAM or SSD drives, a quick google search yields the necessary information to very basically covers one's curiosity. Googling is no effort and I understand that some people might feel the way they presented here in this thread. I felt the same way on different occasions and different forums.This time it did not.I searched and read about the first twelve pages about it (that came on the google result). None of them gave me the answers I was looking for.That was rather strange given the topic.Then, I went to youtube and it lead me into a trail of how the whole process of recording data for computers developed and not actually how the insides of the RAM or SSD worked. To be 100% honest there was a video made by gentlemen with a heavy Indian accent that was very hard for me to understand so I couldnt learn much. The videos BrianHG posted here did not appear on my search (thanks for posting them, they helped a lot).After watching 4 videos and none of them explained about the SSD or how the data actually stayed there after disconnecting I was surprise that I had spent a couple of hours with no result.So I came to the forum.Quote from: Kilrah on January 01, 2019, 07:23:39 pm

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 07:22:09 am
content: It is a nightmare to keep my search results in english.Youtube auto translates some video titles to portuguese!! Why in the world would they do that if I specifically arrange my language AND location settings for the english-USA?!?!around 50% of my Youtube searches brings videos made in Brazil that have way less views than the one on the same subject in english. I have nearly no Brazilian channels I subscribe, if anything I have way more European than Brazilians!Everything on my computer is set to english and this shit keeps trying to translate it!It is very strange to feel like I have to explain why I couldnt learn that from myself, I would have loved not to ask!Maybe there is a bunch of people trolling around this forum and making questions just to spend the valuable time of others but that is definitely not my case!I didnt mean to bother anyone

author: AngraMelo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 07:24:06 am
content: One more thing,I didnt think of wikipedia. After searching for it, I totally forgot about wikipedia, I should have looked there.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 07:35:55 am
content: Quote from: AngraMelo on January 03, 2019, 07:24:06 amSuggesting you to bookmark that web site into your easy accessible bookmark tab at your browser, an advice from generation that used to use these thingy below, whenever we need to learn/know something that was new to us.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 07:47:40 am
content: flash,ssd: search google for : slc mlc tlc flash nand application note appnoteThe SSD Anthology: Understanding SSDs -https://www.anandtech.com/show/2738The SSD Relapse: Understanding and Choosing the Best SSD -https://www.anandtech.com/show/2829

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:50:06 pm
content: Essentially there are two types of memory.Volatilememory that requires a constant power source .RAM ( Random Access Memory) or DRAM (Dynamic Random Access Memory) fall into this category .Non Volatilememory which does not require a constant power source.Flash memory and SSD fall into this category. Non Volatile memory have a finite number of writes .Quote: USB flash drives can withstand between 10,000 to 100,000 write/erase cycles, depending on the memory technology used. SSD write /erase cycles are typically 100000.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 08:56:49 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on January 03, 2019, 07:47:40 amDon't forget one of the most useful keywords,datasheet.