SOIC Clips - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 04:05:58 am
content: Has anyone used these or have experience with them?https://res.cloudinary.com/iwh/image/upload/q_auto,g_center/assets/1/26/Pomona5514-Datasheet.pdfI know oscilloscope probe clips have been discussed extensively and lots of methods are used including a triangular shape piece that uses the weight of the arm to hold the probe in place, but I've been browsing for better methods.These clips popped up during a search, however, I don't see how they could be strong enough to hold (or slip off) yet delicate enough not to damage the chip.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 04:08:37 am
content: look at the chip under a microscope and you will see they have precise geometry. it just takes a equally precise clamp.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 06:32:34 am
content: I used a 8-SOIC clip from Amazon, works fine.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 07:16:59 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 14, 2024, 04:05:58 amDon't have the ones from Pomona, but those seems to be for soldered chips. A soldered chip is very, very sturdy.If you need to connect to not yet soldered chips, for example to pre-program SOIC memories or SOIC microcontrollers, or to test a SOIC part before soldering it, search for ZIF (Zero Insert Force) SOIC socket.

author: berke
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 10:25:55 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 14, 2024, 04:05:58 amI have a set that I've used to debug some boards populated with low-speed SOICs (8, 14 and 16 pin versions IIRC). The clips have a very strong grip. You need to be careful not to misalign them as the SOIC leads could chip the plastic clip body.Once placed the clips hold in place well enough to allow you to connect and remove probes or Dupont jumpers with a bit of help.For me it was definitely worth it, big time saver, as I was able to probe everything going on on a '139 (4 comparators) and some op-amps/logic ICs.These are not high-speed probes, you need to be careful if you have anything moderately fast or sensitive.A bit of clearance is required around the SOICs. If it's too crowded or if there are tall components you will have trouble placing the clips.I'm not sure how many cycles these probes will last, they're not that cheap but stilll affordable.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 01:30:22 pm
content: These would be for chips already soldered on a board and would be done for purposes of troubleshooting using a scope probe.I'll give thought to these. Due to the feedback, I have more confidence in them, but ideally an arm would be better because it's universal.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 01:43:24 pm
content: you have cheap and good ones as mentioned, the cheap doesn't hold well enough or easily move ... tried some of them trying to cut $$$ but eventually gone to Pomona onesshould be other good brands too

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 02:30:24 pm
content: I agree, don't go cheap, especially if they can slip off and chip the body.What I'm contemplating is whether to invest time trying to build an arm so I have the diversity of holding the probe(s) onto anything I'd like, or buy these and then continue my quest for a probe holder.Every time I get stuck trying to finagle a probe and the scope, I say: this is it, whatever the cost, I should purchase an arm.

author: dobsonr741
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 02:34:39 pm
content: Had SO8 clips, they never held reliably. Too bulky and heavy. The plastic claws deteriorated quickly. A single pin grabber worked much better.

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 07:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on March 14, 2024, 02:30:24 pmYou may need both.SO-Clips are simple and quick, but they are just clips, and are trying to grab a radius upper shoulder.You can expect to need some downward and side-force management, especially if you want to dangle a scope probe off the top.A rubber band around the board, to your arm, or a mechanical arm ?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 09:57:00 pm
content: probobly best to use a bit of silicone oil on them to keep them in better shape, messy though

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 03:28:58 am
content: QuoteAs with others online (and who have posted to this forum), ideally I'd like a mechanical arm. I keep giving thought to it and how I may create one to be versatile.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:42:05 am
content: the thing it you might not fry a chip with the clip. its so damn easy on the smaller chips.and the less work you do positioning probes for DIP/SOIC chips, the more dexterity you have left for dealing with the smallest shit

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 02:41:15 pm
content: A week or so ago I got sick of digging through my bag of clips whenever I needed to use them, counting pins, trying to figure out which pin count I have, etc... So I laid out all the clips I have, did a pin count, wrote the pin number on the clip, and made a list.I discovered my collection contains two types, one for regulator through-hole IC's and these:https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pomona-electronics/5252/745103The datasheet states these are for gull wing, however, I tried them on a gull wing IC and was quite disappointment because they just fell off.Does anyone have experience with these? Personally I don't find them very useful, but wondering if I'm not using them correctly.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 06:30:32 pm
content: did you inspect them under a microscope for wear?That is the first thing you should do when something small fails to work. it sounds like a grab bag off ebay.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 07:21:58 pm
content: I’ll check.To clarify, that was just one part number in that series. They are all the same pin sizing, but different number of pins.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2024, 12:30:47 am
content: A few of the clips I picked look fine under the microscope; they almost appear unused (they weren't an eBay purchase, it was unused stock from an old job).This time I attempted clipping it onto the IC under the microscope to see how they grab.It seemed to hold after a few attempts, but they don't offer much strength to stay on. Although I didn't try, it seems one or two scope probes clipped on will knock the clip off the chip.Since I lack experience using gull wing clips, most likely they don't clip and hold like the through-hole IC clips.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2024, 01:58:30 am
content: The only suggestion I can make is to get fine silicone wire for test connections and not PVC. It might be strong enough but your cable is too stiff. Like a 1 inch long adapter for the probe.. one way to do it is to attach a Scope probe to BNC adapter to a BNC connector then solder the silicone wire to the center pin of the BNC connector. Or a more compact version means soldering wire to your scope tip.At least IMO there is no good ways to attach something to a scope tip, the grabber hook is kinda crap, when you have the adapter wire its going to have too high inductance with the hook and the wire, but the BNC should keep it somewhat lower and more shielded.Or if you do this you can go one step further and it will be less soft but use the thinnest coaxial cable you got and get a BNC to that coaxial cable adapter and use it with the scope probe adapter to maintain shielding all the way down to the clip for that extra inch or two.I kind of wonder how tinsel wire could be for the most fragile probe clip connections. maybe you can make a MSOP clip using that technology

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2024, 10:21:33 am
content: Here is what I have used for many years. The micro clips are E-Z Hook brand. A typical cantilevered female Berg/DuPont contact is used for one end. It attaches nicely to the clip. The other end is a single pin from a header. The wire is so-called "wet noodle" in the model airplane hobby and is sold under a variety of other names. The gauge is between 24 and 28 AWG. Daburn used to sell it in larger quantities. Amazon lists similar wire as silicone.A standard scope probe grabs the pin. I also have E-Z Hooks with similarly flexible wire on the grounding lead of some probes. They attach easily and securely to SOIC. ForTQFNTQFP, I use a handheld pointed probe. You might need a smaller and more fragile clip for those chips. Buy good quality clips. Cheap ones just don't hold up.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 08:07:08 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on April 01, 2024, 10:21:33 amOther than one particular manufacturer who sells a 12AWG wire with the “wet noodle” trademark, there is very little discussion of “wet noodle wire”, period. Certainly nothing in 28-24AWG.Generically, “test lead wire” is kinda what to look for. Can be silicone or PVC, but must be very high strand count. (FWIW, the silicone test lead wire sold on DigiKey, from Cal-Test, is high-strand but has lousy silicone insulation that “takes a set” as they say, negating the high stranding…)The floppiest silicone I have gotten is actually from one specific AliExpress vendor, which I’ve used fo make many test leads. But the absolutely floppiest small wire I’ve found on the market today, aside from specialty earbud wire which is much too thin to use as test leads, is the LiFY wire specifically from Kabeltronik. (They use a much higher stranding than other manufacturers of LiFY, which are already decent.) Their 0.25mm2(~24-23AWG) is fantastic for this application. Thinner wire, like the 0.14mm2might be even better for these clips.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2024, 08:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on April 05, 2024, 08:07:08 pmMy proof is my picture. It was sold by a small vendor in the Baltimore, MD area (FMA, since gone) as "antenna wire" for very small sailplanes in the 72 MHz era. It existed and probably still does, but minimal quantities might be large, as they were with Daburn.This picture is for 22 AWG, which is probably OK::https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-clng77kigt/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/1247/14258/22_gauge_silicone_wire_F100W_1__25164.1663036185.jpg?c=2Your search seems to have been limited to battery power wire, which at 10 to 12 AWG can be too stiff for rmodels if typical PVC, low-strand count wire is used. So-called welding cable with rubber insulation in much larger gauges is available and quite flexible too. I am not sure the FMA stuff was silicone, nor was the Daburn, but it was very flexible.EDIT:Here's the address:FMA Direct9607 Dr. Perry RoadSte 409Ijamsville, MD 21754

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 09:01:29 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on April 05, 2024, 08:24:01 pmMy comment wasn’t about the existence of limp wire, but about it being called “wet noodle wire”, which is what I searched for. Other than that single manufacturer who registered that as a trademark for their wire, nobody seems to call it that.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 09:30:24 am
content: Quote from: tooki on April 06, 2024, 09:01:29 amQuote from: jpanhaltDoesn't that make it clear "wet noodle" or "noodle" was jargon in a particular sport/hobby? I purchased mine in the early part of this centuryClearly, a search reveals the terms still are used to refer to very flexible wire. And as mentioned, it is not always silicone. The wire I have is probably not silicone. The fact you only looked at silicone wire that is used frequently for powering electric models doesn't mean those terms cannot or never did apply as jargon to other wire sizes and insulations.Daburn was one producer of it, and in the period mentioned, it was not described as silicone insulation. The Daburn site still claims,QuoteHowever, it's minimal volumes are/were more than most hobbyists would want and probably why there were secondary sellers like FMA Direct.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 10:10:43 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on April 06, 2024, 09:30:24 amYes, and I could find no evidence of it being common jargon in that particular hobby (nor in any other context, for that matter). Except for that one trademark, and the rare descriptive “… like a wet noodle” I couldn’t find even one example of the usage you claim.Quote from: jpanhalt on April 06, 2024, 09:30:24 amA search revealed nothing of the sort. On the contrary, I found even less mention than I expected. My hope in searching was to discover additional types of ultra-limp wire; unfortunately the result revealed nothing new, but also that your claim of the term seems to be unsupported.Quote from: jpanhalt on April 06, 2024, 09:30:24 amUmm, I never said or did any of that!I did not search for silicone wire at all. The exact search query I put into Google was"wet noodle" wire -deans -retriever -fishing. The exclusion terms were to exclude the manufacturer which trademarked the name, and the “wet noodle” tool another manufacturer makes for fishing cables through walls.The Deans Wet Noodle™ wire is a particular brand of high-strand silicone-insulated wire, one they happen to only sell in one gauge.The fact that I specifically mentioned insulation types other than silicone should be a hint that I didn’t “only  at silicone”. Did you even read my reply with any modicum of care?Quote from: jpanhalt on April 06, 2024, 09:30:24 amI’m familiar with Daburn, they make all kinds of wild and wacky wires and cables. (I recently ordered wire from them that is rated for both 250°C operating temperature and 50kV. Either of those characteristics alone is fairly easy to find, but both of those properties in one wire is very exotic.)So I don’t doubt that they make something limp. But they don’t call it “wet noodle”, and other than Deans, no one else appears to, either.If it were a common term in RC (or any other hobby), I would expect the phrase to turn up on forum discussions, etc. But except for the brand name, nothing. Zilch. Nada. Certainly nothing supporting it being common jargon in the hobby.The reason this matters is that a reader wanting to find limp test lead wire for their micrograbbers, following your hint to look for “wet noodle wire”, is going to findabsolutely nothingrelevant, since 12AWG is way, way, way too fat for this purpose, and that’s the only thing that comes up.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 10:59:30 am
content: I purchased these very items and am happy with them:Floppy silicone wires:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003021442186.htmlThese clips work quite well on small pins (soic and smaller):https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005897896900.html

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 11:44:33 am
content: I just found my notes on the wire I am using with my E-Z clips. It's probably 24 AWG; although, I have pieces that are finer. Daburn still sells a highly flexible, high-strand wire that apparently is not silicone insulated:https://www.daburn.com/2671UltraFlexibleSub-MiniatureWire-U/LSTYLE15681692.aspxThat wire is not tinned, except for one version. My wire is tinned.More recently, I bought some BNTECHGO wire (https://bntechgo.com) off Amazon. The 22 AWG is almost as flexible as the same gauge wire from FMA (Daburn?), is fine stranded, tinned, available in small amounts and multiple colors, and has silicone insulation. It is available in gauges as small as 30 AWG. The silicone insulation is a little thicker (OD 0.062") than the FMA 22AWG wire (OD 0.051"). It's not as soft feeling as the silicon insulated wire I have in 10 and 12 AWG.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2024, 11:57:29 am
content: sounds like costco brand spaghetti, that is acceptable