Crimping non-insulated quick disconnects / fastons - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: hyperknot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 03:48:56 pm
content: Hi,I'm about to start my first DIY audio amp builds and I've been researching a lot about crimping. Here is what I come up with:1. For 4.8 mm / 6.3 mm quick disconnects / faston connectors, I'm looking to buy a reliable but affordable crimp tool. I'd crimp these non-insulated and cover them in head-shrink afterwards.2. For everything else (JST, Molex, etc.) I'll buy pre-crimped wires, as it wouldn't make sense for me to buy the expensive tools needed to crimp these.What crimp tool should I buy? A cheap, noname Aliexpress / Banggood kind of racheting tool or a simple but high quality non-racheting one?I know many people buy professional tools here, but I'm only planning to use this for 10, maybe 20 times in total. I'm happy to invest $20-30 in a tool, but not $200+.For example this is what looks really nice to me, about 20 EUR in Europe.Knipex 97 21 215 B Crimping PlierThe alternative would be some cheap racheting one like this:4 in 1 ratchet crimper cable wire crimping plier electrical terminals plier tool kit Sale - Banggood.comor this:Paron(R) jx-d5 multifunctional ratchet crimping tool wire strippers terminals pliers kit Sale - Banggood.comThen for the connectors, what should I look for? What brand, what material, locking mechanism, etc.? Is TE considered the best one?Here is afiltered search I made at TME.euabout the ones I believe are fitting for me.About the insulation, I'm thinking about using heat-shrink after crimping as I can make a more precise crimping this way.What do you recommend?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 04:33:52 pm
content: Think I'd rather have the brand name pliers kind over no-name ratcheting kind, but I've not used either tool exactly. Maybe someone here has direct experience with those.I have a, this or one of its friends:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/aven-tools/10190/243-1578-ND/9858991, which works fine. The basic idea is you want to squeeze the barrel, and wire inside, enough to squash all the strands together (making it air tight, more or less), while also pinching it in such a way that the wire stretches inside the barrel, holding it in tension after pressure is released.Honestly, for just a few, in a noncritical application, you can smash them with pliers (usually there's a spaced jaw on the handle side). It won't hold much tension -- it's pretty much smashed flat, held only between what texture the jaw faces imprinted. Then fill in the gaps with solder. It won't be as reliable as a properly crimped joint, but it'll be a far sight better than a wrapped or lap joint. Think of it as a tight fitting solder-pot joint.Also consider spring cage terminal blocks (super easy to use; not as great for handling amperes), screw terminals, pluggable blocks (e.g. Phoenix 1755736 and mate), and so on.Tim

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 05:00:37 pm
content: The ratcheting tools are the way to go, or at least something that has proper dies. I have a few of the cheap ratcheting tools and they're fine, although I can't speak for all of them. Mine are inexpensive but not the absolute cheapest available, I think I paid around $40. I primarily use them for coax connectors for which there is really no alternative.

author: kallek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 05:05:32 pm
content: For non-insulated flat connectors I have used Knipex 97 22 240. I was a bit disappointed that it was not made in Germany as other Knipex pliers I have, but at least so far it has worked well.I also have Engineer PA-09 crimping tool for smaller connectors. It is good quality and made in Japan, but rather expensive. I have so far only crimped Molex kk-series connectors with it. With practise and patience one can make very nice crimps with it.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 07:15:15 pm
content: The flat tools like the Knipex shown have the advantage that you can crimp wire and insulation parts of a crimp connector seperate, as long as the shape fits it, so you can work with a wide variety of sizes and types.The wide ratchet types really only do the type of connector they were designed for, but are imho best for insulated crimp connectors or niche types, otherwise it is hard to check if all went well.

author: hyperknot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 10:18:53 pm
content: How about the pressure / force? Does a Knipex non-racheting one have enough pressure to make the crimp properly? I mean by pressing really strongly with two hands.Also, any ideas about the connectors themselves? What material should I look for for audio applications? What brand?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 11:12:22 pm
content: Depends - if you work dawn to dusk in a heavy manual trade or spend several hours a day weightlifting, you've probably got the grip to use the scissors style crimper effectively, but most bench techs don't have the muscles to get decent results. If you drive a desk for a living you may well be so unfit you'll struggle with a decent ratchet crimper on larger terminals!Avoid scissors style crimpers with the largest die furthest from the pivot unless they are for very small terminals - for large terminals it needs to be as close as possible to the pivot for best leverage. The smallest die usually needs least pressure so can be furthest from the pivotBeware of cheap knockoff scissor style crimpers - I've wrecked quite a few trying to get a decent crimp - the arms or jaws easily bend sideways if they aren't dead straight on the terminal or you apply any side pressure to the handles.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 11:23:51 pm
content: Not sure if this answers your question, but BigClive had an interesting review and mini-tutorial regarding the crimpers.Hope this helps...

author: hyperknot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 04:41:29 pm
content: Thanks, that video was very rich in information!Interesting that it said IWISS branded ones are actually OK quality. It seems that IWISS is like a decent, named brand from China made crimping tools.Also, I'm considering using fully insulated ones, like these:+How do they compare to the non-insulated ones + manual heatshrink tubing?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 06:01:42 pm
content: Quoteyou can find the correct size of crimp much quicker with the insulated version.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 06:04:20 pm
content: QuoteDon't go there.The uninsulated types with either heat shrink or shrouds ar far superior.The insulated types are for "car tuners" fiddling with loudspeakers and are not reliable. Been there, done that and will never return.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 06:35:24 pm
content: You'd be absolutely fine with the insulated type and a half way competent ratchet crimper. Despite the claims of Benta, they are used by the millions, probably billions, around the world with adequate results, including in demanding industries..It's hard to recommend any particular tool and terminal combination unless you're willing to buy specific (and expensive) brands, however.

author: hyperknot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 07:09:09 pm
content: Thanks. For uninsulated ones, how much concern would be the different diemeter in the insulating part vs. the wire part?I mean rachet dies are made for one particular design, and if I have a thicker insulation for example, it might not push down the wire part properly. Or it might overcrimp the insulation part.With the fully insulated version, as I see the insulation isn't crimped at all, is that correct? So this problem wouldn't happen, as there is only one "height" which is crimped?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 07:25:57 pm
content: Quoteuse a decent crimper and the joint will be fine,use a crap tool and problem city.If there so unreliable why are they used thought the electrical industry.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 10:04:29 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on May 07, 2020, 07:25:57 pm*they're*throughoutCouldn't resist, sorry.They're certainlynotused generally in the electrical industry. Open any appliance or professional equipment and look. They are used for "here and now" and " let's just get it done" repairs. And they are crap. Period.

author: hyperknot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 10:20:13 pm
content: Benta, what is a shroud BTW? Also, any recommendation for reasonable priced tool for non-insulated ones?

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 10:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on May 07, 2020, 10:04:29 pmI've done many of those crimps, they hold up mechanically as they should , either you use the wrong cross sectional area wire for the connector or something else is horribly wrong in your setup.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 01:17:38 am
content: Insulated crimp terminals are used in loads of OEM applications. Quality terminals crimped with the correct tool are as reliable as anything.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 04:56:19 am
content: This crimper: T&B WT111M, is ideal for smaller non insulated crimp connectors. If you are doing #10 wire two hands should be used. The crimper is relatively cheap and lasts a lifetime.As for insulated crimp connectors and the supposed proper pliers to go with them, I wouldn’t bother! The results that I’ve seen are less than spectacular in the field.Compound or ratcheting pliers are great but good ones are expensive.There are a lot of stamped combination tools out there, some might be better than others but I prefer purpose build crimpers. The key here is the proper use of leverage with many putting the crimp dies in less than an ideal location. If you go this route invest in a high quality unit.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 05:48:21 pm
content: I've been down this path and keep going....Based on my experience the short answer is that your Banggood ratchet kits look good.Longer answer:If you are just going to crimp one or a few of the same connectors you can probably save money and go with whatever will get the job done, is readily available, and reasonably inexpensive. If you think you are going to do crimps on a regular basis then I'd generally recommend a ratchet crimper. They can go from tens of $ to over a hundred and they come as dedicated crimpers or frames with interchangeable jaws. I've tried both. In some case I've found the dedicated crimper make sense - for example with ferrules (can be handy for the ends of DUT wires that will be held by power supply alligators or minigrabbers).https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W4O14D2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1After trying several crimpers I've started standardizing on this:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00788LS0S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00788IUJU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007888BXK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00788IZSQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1The challenge is to determine if a particular frame will accommodate requirements you might not yet be able to fully anticipate. In some cases jaws from one manufacturer will work with a frame from another manufacturer but I'd start with a frame that offers at least some of what you can anticipate. For example:https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/voicedatavideo-replacement-parts/crimp-die-set-rg58rg59-rg62-rg174-fo#Related%20ItemsThere is something satisfying about ratchet crimping.Somewhat off topic, but another cool tool is a RG59/6 compression connector toolHappy crimping and connectorizing.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 05:58:10 pm
content: On the connectors... there are lots of choices and you can watch and read about them for hours or days. In the end, you will know after you try a few. If you start with one of your Banggood ratchet kits that support various jaws you can try different types of connectors and you will know with more certainty what you prefer and you will save time (and $ if your time is worth something) vs. trying to guess one way or the other. The price of those Banggood sets is so good that even if they don't last forever or solve all your problems you will learn something useful and probably get a bunch of crimps made. Order a variety of connectors that work with the jaws in the kit you select and see what you determine. Almost for sure you will enjoy making good ratchet crimps and having good connectors when you need them.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 06:23:18 pm
content: I got one of these a few years ago:Astro Pneumatic Tool 9477 7-Piece Professional Quick Interchangeable Ratchet Crimping Tool SetFrom Amazon; it's currently listed for $66 US and has dies for insulated and uninsulated terminals, among others. For specialized crimps, I scour the bay of evil and try to find OEM tooling, but for general use the set listed has served me well. And whoever is saying that crimp terminals are a hack, well, I think that companies like Panduit would disagree. I've encountered them plenty in industry, and they work well if properly made up.-Pat

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 06:32:48 pm
content: Quote from: hyperknot on May 07, 2020, 10:20:13 pmI'm sorry, "shroud" is perhaps not the right term. This is what I mean:

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 07:30:45 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on May 08, 2020, 06:32:48 pmThose are called 'fully insulated' terminals, at least in my experience. We used a bunch of them (specified by the customer) in an industrial microwave power supply built by a company where I used to work.-Pat

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 11:08:44 pm
content: Non insulated crimp terminals are fine. It is the insulated one I have a lot of hate for.Let me explain, I’ve worked in the field of automation and CNC equipment since the 1980’s. The only crimp type terminals I’ve seen fail consistently are the insulated ones. It doesn’t matter where the device was built, it is just too easy to have a bad crimp which eventually fails or worse becomes intermittent. This has happened on machinery built in many countries by different vendors. Sometimes it is a single connection over a period of time. Other times I’ve had to reterminate about half the connections in a machine. So yeah when I see insulated crimps it leaves me feeling like a hack worked on the wiring.Now I’d be the first to admit that other connection systems have their issues. The difference is the problems occur over time while those insulated terminals can cause issues right out of the gate. By over time I mean 10-20 yearsQuote from: Cubdriver on May 08, 2020, 06:23:18 pm

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 11:30:02 pm
content: I'm not disputing your experience, but can only say that mine has been vastly different. I spent 6 years working at National Semiconductor (from '84~'90), and there was plenty of stuff there that had insulated crimp terminals - among that, things like rinser-dryers that vibrated plenty and etch sink control panels where things would get dissolved by acid splashes. I can't recall EVER having a connection issue with a crimped terminal in that time, though there may have been some. Some time after National I spent 12 years with a small company that made industrial microwave and RF generators, and again, we used a fair number of insulated crimp connectors in those applications, too. No standout issues there, either, so long as things were crimped with decent and correct tooling. I've seen failures in cars where someone crunched things with a pair of slip joint pliers or some similar hack, but things done with properly fitted ratcheting crimpers have proven reliable from my experience with them.-PatQuote from: wizard69 on May 08, 2020, 11:08:44 pm

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2020, 06:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on May 08, 2020, 06:32:48 pmThe more common term seems to be "sleeve".Quote from: Cubdriver on May 08, 2020, 07:30:45 pmNo. He doesn't mean the fully insulated terminals. He means the rubber sleeves that you pull over an uninsulated terminal, like this:https://www.jst.co.uk/products.php?cat=463Quote from: Benta on May 07, 2020, 10:04:29 pmThat's demonstrably untrue. While I actually prefer using the uninsulated kind myself, the insulated ones are widely used in production equipment. For example, look at the Pace ADS200:There they're using insulated crimps for all the ground ring terminals andeither uninsulated crimps with soft sleeves, orfully-insulated crimps for the spade terminals on the AC socket.(I can't quite tell.)(Edit: I opened up my Pace ST-75 and it's got the exact same pink terminals on the AC socket, and they're the fully-insulated type.)

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 11:10:12 pm
content: I never had any luck with non-ratcheting type.For electrical work, I have a JIS certified (I bought it in Japan) crimper for non insulated terminals. It always works superbly. I also have ratcheted insulated terminal crimper purchased in US. I don't think this one is rated. As long as I use the right gauge cable with right terminal, it seem to work just fine. But it is very sensitive to this good match. Not so with uninsulated type.For small electronics, I have about a dozen of Amazon sourced, Chinese crafted, ratchet crimpers. They work amazingly well. I won't use it if I were building life depending equipment or a space craft but no one asks me to build those. For what I do, they do just fine. I don't have a budget for buying manufacturer specified crimping tool for their particular connectors. When I was working for a company, I had to buy those "right" ones but for hobby, no, I can't justify it.I really like the crimpers that crimps 360 degrees for sleeve type terminal contacts. Connectors and contacts are expensive though. They seem to make a gas tight connection even with my cheap 360 degree crimper.I also noticed insulated terminals are almost always less sure on connections. I would imagine plyable plastic around barrel will prevent anything from applying enough force to cause cold welding.

author: eblc1388
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 06:48:46 am
content: The problem with pre-insulated terminals is that they hide the result of the crimp. This is especially true for cheap, improper terminals, where very thin material is being used to save cost. The only way to be sure is to cutoff the insulation after crimping and look at the result. Do it for a sample size of three. Look out for splitted seam with conductor strands in the middle not being crimped. Wiggle the cable to see if there is any sign of strand movement at the terminal.The attached photo shows one proper and one cheap no brand terminal crimped by a proper JST tool. They both look good on outside and passed the crude tug test without problem. But the inside told a different story. The bad one will fail quickly after several thermal cycles. So, please satisfy yourself that the crimp is good before using those unbranded terminals in your project or production line.