New to electronics and soldering some help and advice please? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 07:24:14 pm
content: Hello every one. Im kie from north of the uk. I have came across a little bit of a pickle. As i am pretty new to soldering anf electronics although i have been repairing mobile phones laptops and pcs for quite a while now. The thing is i plan to take it one step further in the way of soldering replacing ics and so forth. But the problem i have it do i go all out and spend my money on a single 1on1 solder station or do i buy a middle range 2in1 rework station. I have a regular heat gun that i use to heat certain screens etc but it does not have a any type of regulation as in the heat cant be changed. Sorry if thats the wrong way to put it. So basically i was wondering is there anyone here who can help me in find some hardware? My buget is around 80-90 gbr. Thank you

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 07:47:50 pm
content: You'd raise your chances for constructive answers considerably by not using txtspeak, "lols" and crap. You know, by writing like a normal person.No longer valid as OP has edited his post. Thanks!

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 08:16:05 pm
content: Alright then no problems. I just didnt think there was a rule on the way that i speak? Ok well never mind could anyone help me in the questions that i asked? My budget has gone up to maybe 85-90gbr thank you. K

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 08:46:38 pm
content: Kie, there's a great many knowledgeable people on these boards, many of whom speak English as a second language. If you edit your first post so that it is as legible as possible then the information you receive may well be of a higher quality.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 08:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 03, 2013, 08:16:05 pmIt's not a rule, just annoying. We're generally pretty nice and helpful here, but understand people over age 30 probably prefer normal words.The thing with stuff in your price range having terrible reviews may mean that there's nothing good in that range unfortunately.

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 09:08:05 pm
content: I didnt realise it was such a problem. I have changed my OP anyways .. thank you in advance for any help.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 10:43:48 pm
content: Hi Kie,What exactly are you trying to solder (trying to figure out if you need just an iron, or iron + hot air to start)?Given you're in the UK and your budget, I don't see name brand equipment as an option (new). Used or an Asian equivalent can work though.Although used, I'd recommend this one:JBC AD2200. One of the best brands out there (search the forum, and you'll see). Tips are more expensive, but worth it IMHO.Example of a new Chinese station.Combination model (iron + hot air).

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:03:31 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 03, 2013, 10:43:48 pmThanks for your reply and i intent to get into smd repairs ya see mobile phones tablets and laptop repairso i need both i thinkwhat do u think to the chinese replicas?? Or do i need to spend my money just the hotair and but a cheap solering station?

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:04:41 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on November 03, 2013, 10:57:43 pmYeah i get your point now i apologise for the shortness and the sarci attitude ..

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:24:29 pm
content: Hi Kie, welcome to the forum. From my experience the most common PCB faults on laptops are1. GPU IC's2. LCD inverter PCBs.Normally you would use a preheater (google it) and hot air rework station. For the budget you have, a preheater (even a chinese) is out of the question. A pretty decent hot air rework station is thishttp://www.ebay.com/itm/ATTEN-AT858D-SMD-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-Solder-Blower-/380407152401?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5892087f11But you will definitely need an adgustable soldering iron so a 2 in 1 unit likehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/2-in-1-SMD-Soldering-Rework-Station-Hot-Air-Iron-8786D-Tips-ESD-PLCC-BGA-/350917388699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b44e699bor likehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/FKO-2-in-1-SMD-Soldering-Rework-Station-Hot-Air-Gun-Solder-Iron-YH-8786D-/271288253403?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f2a0a3bdbwould be a nice kit to start with.With the rest of the money you can get a set of reballing stencils. Search youtube for reballing BGA ICs to see how they are used. Cheers!

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:44:46 pm
content: Hi thank you for you reply and the warm welcome. I have searched for the reballing stencils and cant find them any where can you give me specific model? And the rework station you showed me is in hongkong and the shipping cost are a fortune.http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/260896358436?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1is this the same 1 ?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 11:51:44 pm
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 03, 2013, 11:03:31 pmYou'd be surprised at how much you can do with an iron, including SMD work (BGA is the one thing that an iron can't be used for). So most of us tend to recommend going with a better quality iron, and Chinese for hot air, as the name brand stuff tends to be too expensive for the majority of hobbyists (~$600USD to ~$2kUSD new, depending on features & accessories <nozzles>).I'm also a fan of separate units, as it can allow you to use one to fix the other (i.e. use the good iron to fix the broken hot air station when it happens).A pre-heating plate was mentioned, and would be a nice edition, particularly on multilayer boards that can draw heat away from the joint/s you're working on. But it's not within your budget right now, so would be something to do last. And only then if you actually need it. Another thing you could look into at a later time, would be modifying a toaster oven into a reflow oven (How-To's available on the internet). Again, only if you need it at some later date.Check YouTube to see what's possible with SMD and an iron ("drag soldering" would be one to look for).A couple of other places you could look to purchase Asian made goods, would be deal extreme (dx.com) orAliexpress.Both are Asian suppliers, but are reasonable on prices & shipping (look at the totals <item + shipping).

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:04:20 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 03, 2013, 11:51:44 pmSee i think i need a 2in1 or 2 separate peices of hardware a hot air and a good iron because for certain repairs require low melt alloy to that cant be reached by an iron only by hot air. And the iron i have at the minute is a cheapo 30w iron from the local shop. Do you thing the iron and air in the previous post would be suffice? And them website i can get them same models on ebay from uk warehouses for same price withoit shipping costs.

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:12:34 am
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 03, 2013, 11:44:46 pmYes, this is the same unit. Basically nanofrog is right. Ideally you would want your soldering station being a separate unit (and if possible, of better quality) but it all depends on your budget.You can see some stencil sets herehttp://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=bga+stencil&_sop=15You could also go for a kit like thishttp://www.ebay.com/itm/BGA-Rework-Reball-station-leaded-free-Solder-Balls-Flux-Paste-Tape-Wick-Tweezers-/321043349854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item4abfacc15e

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:25:25 am
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 04, 2013, 12:04:20 amThe irons being linked are temperature adjustable units (what "soldering station" usually indicates). So you only need to turn the temp down for low melt solder alloys.As I mentioned, the only thing a soldering iron is totally useless, is with BGA packages (joints are under the chip, so inaccessible with an iron <no pins with this particular package at all>). Hot air, IR (infra-red), DIY method using an electric skillet, or reflow ovens are what work for BGA.The cheapo iron I assume has no temperature control at all (many of us use the term firestick, as they're excellent for lighting things on fire or burning the user). This vs. a proper soldering station is like night and day.I'd still recommend going with the JBC 2200 I linked for a proper soldering station (it's located in the UK & shipping was reasonable), and a separate hot air station (any of those linked would suffice; one that adds an iron will drive the price up a bit, and those funds could be used to buy another tip/s for your iron instead).

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:27:04 am
content: So if i where to go on to get the hardware seperate then coud you give me examples, Just on its own a weller or hakko station are like 100gbr and i dont really want to spend more than 90 for both for now if you get me. I have flux paste and wick already only thing i would need it the clamp/stencils

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:45:08 am
content: Thanks nanofrog for your help.. i no this might sound or come across stuborn amd i dont mean to be rude but i would like a bit more of a budget for now .. im not saying that i wlnt change my kit after 12 months or what ever .. its just with me just starting out i dont want to spend 100+ pound on one just yet untill i know 100 percent what i am doing more of the bulk of my repairs are iphone battery comnector replacement and bypass ic and connector repairs and variois other charger dc and usb connector repairs and that have came away from the board.does this help. Any more or wil i benefit from a iron alone without the hot air ? For now

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 12:56:28 am
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 04, 2013, 12:27:04 amNew Weller or Hakko are expensive in the UK, and will exceed your budget.Used however, is an option and why I linked the JBC AD2200 (first post I made in this thread). It's a top quality station, and is within your budget.Crap! It's already ended. Might keep an eye out and see if it gets relisted.

author: fluxcapacitor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 01:47:08 am
content: Have a look on bgamods.co.uk ,they sell reball kits,flux, etc.They have a good forum for reballing/rework,although a lot of it is for consoles.For any level of success youll need a lot of practice ,whatever equipment you buy.

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 02:09:59 pm
content: See alls i do is mobile laptop and console/accessories repair and customosation. So i have orderrd the 60w solder station from maplin for 39.99 and the. I have ordered the atten hotnair rework station off ebay for 32.99 with a flux pen and tin with some flux brushes. Also i have ordered some de soldering wick.. this sound ok thanks for all your help

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 03:12:48 pm
content: That soldering station (I'm guessing you mean the A55KJ) is also an Atten - the AT938D, rebadged for Maplin. For a cheap station it doesn't look too bad, and tips and other spares will be easy to come by.Be careful with the soldering wick - cheap stuff can be worse than useless. Stick with name brands - Chemtronics Soder-wick is the gold standard, but Spirig 3s-wick is also pretty good.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 04:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 04, 2013, 03:12:48 pm+1MG Chemicals and Techspray also make good quality wick.Kester, AIM (American Iron & Metal), and Multicore (Henkel) make great solder wire & flux.MG Chemicals makes good chemicals such as flux, but also offer other things should you need it (etchant, plating products ... types of stuff).

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 04:28:18 pm
content: Have a look at circuit specialists web site,http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/they are pretty reasonable and their goods are as well, mostly Chinese but what isn't these days. They do a combined hot air and solder station at just under £80-00http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/best-sellers/esd-safe-cpu-controlled-smd-hot-air-rework-station-csi-825aFor my tastes I would buy their separate units so if one unit fails you still have the other. I have been using one of their controlled soldering stations for about 2 years now and have not even had to change a tip despite being used most days.

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:02:51 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 04, 2013, 03:12:48 pmYeh it does look kind of ok for a begginer its got Pretty good reviews on amazon. I might hit that for a bit and see what happens the tips are pretty easy to come by because of the shop pretty big brand. With it been a 60w will it be ok to use on mobile phones and tablets?

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:06:12 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on November 04, 2013, 04:28:18 pmI have had a look through that website and there systems seem to br the rebranded yihau or yaxon that have terrible rewiews on amazon .. i agree 100% in saying to have seperate stations in case one was to brake i would only need to replace on. Could you put a link in for me for the best wick and flux to use on a mobile phone please? Thank you

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 04, 2013, 04:20:35 pmThank you again nanofrog really aplriciate the help

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:17:43 pm
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 04, 2013, 05:02:51 pmIt should be if it has decent regulation - 60W is just the maximum heat it can put into a demanding joint; with a fine tip it won't draw anywhere near that once it's up to temperature.An unregulated 60W iron would be a disaster for fine work, of course.If you find the iron is damaging circuitry it may be better to bite the bullet and get a really good second hand station like the JBC that nanofrog suggested. Metcal also make excellent units which can often be found on eBay at reasonable prices.

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 05:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 04, 2013, 05:17:43 pmI have not tryed it yet i dont think it will it should be fine as you said it will not pu that much when its up to temp and with a 0.8 mm till it should be fine. Xx

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 07:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: ShadyK on November 04, 2013, 05:06:12 pmJust get good quality brands, and in the case of wick, the appropriate size for the joints.For wick, I'd go with Chemtronics if you can get it. Flux from any of the companies I listed would work.Personally, I prefer liquid over a pen (more economical than pens; needle bottle or small brush gives you fine control of how much & where). Unfortunately, small quantities of it are harder to find, so MG Chemicals would be your best bet if you go this route (100ml bottles; others, such as Kester 1 gal & larger containers). Pens are much easier and more common to find. Circuit specialists sell refillable pens, so that might be an alternative as well (not sure who manufactures their flux though).As per type, go with either rosin or no-clean,but I'd recommend avoiding water soluble flux, as it must be cleaned off quickly (or it will corrode your joints within 24 hrs or so).Quote from: ShadyK on November 04, 2013, 05:07:03 pmYou're welcome.

author: ShadyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 08:19:49 am
content: Cheers guys. Really appriciate the help. Going to get it today And then hopefully it will be ok. Thank alot guys cheers.