Scamazon are at it again (surprise surprise) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 01:45:25 am
content: https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/4/21423429/amazon-top-reviewers-uk-fraudAlso, water is wet, sky is blue and Amazon are shadier than their namesake jungle.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 03:24:44 am
content: Youtuber explains the various ways, 5 star reviews are being faked, on Amazon.E.g. Nice real 5* product, being later switched, for a similar, but inferior, junk product.Buyers being paid back some money, via paypal, if they give a 5*** review.Extra accessories being sent, if they give a 5*** review.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 01:59:54 pm
content: The fake reviews have been obvious for many years.Wonder what Amazon could actually do to help the situation?A couple of things spring to mind for starters:1) If you change the product in the catalog, all the reviews disappear. They belong to a specific product. Exceptions can be made in rare cases but would be via telephone and authorized by Amazon on a case by case basis - it would not be the default.2) A customer has to have purchased at least 25 different items on Amazon over a period of least 1 year to be allowed to write a review in the first place.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 02:09:10 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 06, 2020, 01:59:54 pmThey themselves (Amazon), are sometimes part of the problem. Eg. Grouping together similar items, that they sell, with combined feedback reviews for all the items. Such as different sizes of products, such as TV/monitor sizes. Old/new models under the same reviews, etc etc.So, an external hard disk drive (USB), was actually good/reliable/fast, a few years ago, when it was the original model.They then replace that model (possibly by keeping the old name and model number, but maybe 179B rather than 179A). But the 179A was a good quality item, but the new (cost reduced) 179B model, is completely different.Although it seems to have the same specification, it is now unreliable, slow, noisy, not recognised reliably by windows and of poor quality.Yet it shares the feedback with the old model.Some people (including me), find this very annoying, sometimes.Quote from: SilverSolder on September 06, 2020, 01:59:54 pmThe problem with that, would be anyone who have not purchased so many items. May have genuinely received a faulty/bad/problematic item. But would be excluded from giving the item (correctly) a bad review.

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 05:16:39 pm
content: Amazon does the exact same thing, even with products shipped from and sold by them. Now with most of the subsidies taken away buying a substandard part from China isn't really an option anymore because it costs about the same as the legitimate product. Amazon has also been getting political as well.Increasingly, the only options are a cheap knockoff from China or an overpriced but high-end product from a low-volume US company. The whole "decent product at a decent price" category is being abandoned for the most part.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 07:10:59 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 06, 2020, 01:59:54 pmWhich would achieve nothing because the fake reviews aren't posted by bots with fresh accounts but by real people using real accounts that got paid for shilling.Plus it is trivial to game - buy 25 different pens or packs of toilet paper and hop, you are eligible to write a review for a $2000 item! Exactly the same as eBay seller ratings are gamed - the seller is selling hundreds of next to worthless items to friends/co-conspirators who give him/her perfect rating. And then they scam you on that one more expensive item you want. Given the volume of transactions they are doing the one bad review gets drowned out and no impact on their rating.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 09:59:48 pm
content: That's why i sort reviews by one star first.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 12:15:42 am
content: I learned years ago that reviews on Amazon were less than useless. Most other "marketplace" type sites have quickly caught up.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 12:41:07 am
content: Also, I'm concerned at Amazons own review policies/rules.Typically, some reviews are like the following:"The item is great, really lovely. It deserves the full 5*****++ stars!It is so, so nice, please buy one".I suspect some buyers will see all the 5*** ratings and glowing reviews, at a quick glance, and buy the item.But, if you read on.."I just thought I would also say, I am part of the Vine program. So I got the item free. If I don't give enough good reviews, Amazon will stop sending me all this expensive free stuff. But don't worry, it hasn't affected by reviews, at all."tl;drAmazon have created or are allowing, their own paid/biased reviews. This is plainly ridiculous, and possibly poor marketing strategy in the longer term.As others seem to be saying, Amazon reviews have gradually gone down hill, and are much less trustworthy, than they originally appeared to be.In some cases, it seems obvious that the sellers, have created the reviews themselves.Conversely, sometimes bad feedback is also wrong. Some items are technically difficult to use, so users buy them, can't work it properly, then give the item 1* poor reviews. Whereas it is because they didn't know what they were doing, and e.g. tried to install a NVME SSD, into a Sata only ported computer or something.Then create a silly review which is 1* and says something like, silly SSD had wrong connector on it, so I gave the item 1*.

author: pidcon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 12:44:09 am
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on September 06, 2020, 09:59:48 pmYeah, I agree. Truth is only found in negative reviews.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 05:23:57 am
content: QuoteThat's not what happens on Vine, is it? The vendor doesn't know who gets the kit. They just make x number available for review, and Amazon allocate them. AFAIK, the reviewer isn't bullied to give a 5* review since they are not out of pocket if their give a poor review. Specifically, Amazon hands the stuff out for free.OTOH, off-Amazon reviewers are the opposite - they ARE bullied to give 5* reviews because if they don't they won't get their kickback. In other words, they buy the kit as a normal buyer and only after giving a 5* review are they refunded.And, of course, you see who is in the Vine scheme and can thus bear that in mind when reading the review. You have no idea if a 'normal' review is pukka or paid-for, though.Clearly, the off-Amazon reviews are cons, but I think Vine is a lot more straight-up than you give it credit for.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 06:56:26 am
content: I rarely do reviews.But after buying a set of crimping tools which were wrongly described, I reviewed those with the proper information, and 1 star :pI also reviewed the set I ordered the second time, and even while I really liked that set, and it worked, I gave it only 4 stars. Why? Because there was a card in there, promising me a 10$ off coupon should I leave a 5 star review and send them a link to that via email... That is a practice I cannot support. Begging for good reviews normally puts me off completely.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 09:16:42 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 07, 2020, 05:23:57 amI'm not especially knowledgeable about the Vine programme, I did exaggerate (but in a way, which tended to highlight the reality of the situation, as I see it) the situation and I can believe that technically speaking, you are right about it.But in practice, my opinion is that I've NOT seen any icon or anything (in general), identifying people in the Vine programme. So it is not that noticeable (at least to me), except sometimes where it says top 500 reviewer or something and/or there was a disclaimer somewhere in the product review (usually towards the end of it), which says it was a Vine and/or given free product review.My opinion is generally against it, because they are apparently using psychological and/or statistical techniques, to manipulate the reviews and hence the sales of some products.Reviews should be unbiased, real/genuine things. Not things created/manipulated by the sellers and/or Amazon.Because of my opinion on this matter, if/when I see the fact that there is at least one Vine review. I'm immediately put off buying the item, and become rather suspicious of it. If the item is such a bargain and/or good value for money and/or liked by so many people. Then why hasn't the reviews been allowed to build up, naturally.But, on the other hand. I do see/understand that brand new products, have initial slowness/difficulties. Because of how long it needs to (unassisted), gradually build up sales and reviews. The programme does seem to aim for that very situation, so that does tend to sway my opinion into somewhat agreeing with the concept.They should make it much clearer, when they are semi-professional/free-product reviews. Maybe by making the text a different background text colour and things. I (in particular), can't easily tell they are Vine reviews.EDIT tl;drWhat I think Amazon should have done, is as follows.Made/enforced that all user reviews, are genuine/honest affairs.Created the concept of official (or semi-official), AMAZON (extra) reviews. I.e. Amazon endorsed/created/written reviews. Then that would be honest and fine.I.e. it would look something like this:Selection Boxes::::[User Reviews] [Amazon Vine Programme Reviews] [External/Sellers Extra Reviews]Then the users of Amazon can choose, what types of reviews they can see, and make their mind up, in a fair way.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 10:15:00 am
content: Amazon in Germany marks Vine reviews quite well, in my opinion. There is a green line "Vine Kundenrezension eines kostenfreien Produkts" (rough translation: "Vine customer review of a free product"), followed by a link, describing the Vine program.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 11:14:21 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 07, 2020, 10:15:00 amI just checked on the UK site. It doesn't make it very clear, it is part of the Vine programme. Here is one, I just found:The only identification I can see, is where it says "VINE VOICE", but that could easily be missed by someone reading the reviews. I suspect, I miss it, often, as it is not clear at all. Only because this thread has highlighted it, so I'm looking out for it.QuoteSomething funny is going on, anyway. Because a prominent UK newspaper, has found that those reviewers are receiving extra money or something, google for the following (apparently not easily linkable, as gives a limited access link):https://www.ft.comQuoteAnother FT article:Quote

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 01:05:16 pm
content: I guess the official Trading Standards bodies that most governments have for bricks-and-mortar businesses, really need to get their s#!t toghether and start prosecuting abusive practices online as well.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 02:19:44 pm
content: QuoteThose (the 20,000 reviews Amazon have allegedly canned, where the chap reveiwed £15K of stuff over the last month and then flogged it all on ebay after getting his kickbacks) are typical of the off-Amazon paid-for reviews. None of these stories relate to the Amazon Vine program.In fact, thinking about it, Vine is actually better for product reviews than the zillion YouTube videos which people seem to think are acceptable, which are typically just paid-for reviews placed off-site.Having said that, I normally ignore Vine reviews on the basis that the reviewer is pressured to saysomething. A review written only because the reviewer felt strongly enough to say it's great or shit is far better than one dragged out of them.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 02:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 07, 2020, 02:19:44 pmYes, as I understand it (now), that is right (but earlier, I was confused by some of the news reports about it and the Vine programme). See here:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/amazon-bans-biased-reviews-incentivised-a7344761.htmlQuoteQuotetl;drI guess the Amazon Vine programme is not as bad, as I originally feared.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 03:04:54 pm
content: Unfortunately Amazon, and all other eCom platforms I'd say, works in the interest of their shareholders/their own incentives and couldn't care less about fraud, on the contrary! Due diligence is a buyer responsibility at the end of the day. Its great contributions like this thread that makes it work in the advantages of consumers though.Probably okay for low cost items (gadgets and consumables?), however nothing beats the visit at the counter or the rep/re-seller to see less affordable product(s) you need buying. Don't believe everything you read on that Internet

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 02:38:34 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 06, 2020, 01:59:54 pmGo out of business, that would work, and no one would miss them.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 04:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 08, 2020, 02:38:34 pmWell, I'd miss them! - it really is a super convenient service they provide, and sometimes the prices are unbeatable. I've gotten pretty good at spotting "real" vs. "fake" reviews over the years, so I personally don't feel the noise level in the reviews is a major problem (as opposed to an irritant). I do get a lot out of well written reviews and I think they are an important feature of the site - Amazon should definitely step up their efforts to keep the review sections clean.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 05:03:53 pm
content: QuoteHow do you know? A review could be a fake 5* but it turns out to be a good product so the review seems good. Or the product is duff but it's mostly because of user error (Chinglish manual, coffee-deprived brain...) so the review seems fake even though it's not.QuoteSame here. Using Amazon regularly is a step change akin to switching from corner shops to supermarkets.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 06:10:13 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 08, 2020, 05:03:53 pmYou can never be 100% certain of anything, but you can definitely get a pretty good idea of whether you, on balance, find the reviewer genuine.I generally look for detailed reviews, that show real knowledge/experience with the product, the kind that would be very hard to fake.If a review looks good, I sometimes click on the user's name and look at other reviews they've written, to get the gist of what kind of person it is and whether their reviews generally look reasonable or "scammy".It is a red flag if a user only has written one or two reviews, for example. (e.g. they created an account just to write the review, never to be seen again).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 07:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 07, 2020, 06:56:26 amGiving them 4 stars to "spite" them is just as bad as putting a fake 5 star just to get a coupon, in both cases you are not reviewing the quality of the product honestly.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 08:14:16 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on September 06, 2020, 09:59:48 pmI find it it takes someone unhappy to tell the truth and described in detail the issues and any pictures.I will always look at the negatives to find out what can go wrong with it to know what to expect.Many five star reviews "well it worked for me for now" but I sometimes I noticed when they were excessive 5 star reciews that most of them one had one review being to that purchase.I wonder, what else can these fake positive reviewers do, like try leaving "too good to be true feedback" with one or two star to try and douse out the negative reviews if there was enough of them but then that would be a sign that something is wrong.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 09:08:04 pm
content: The practice of including reviews for "similar" products or items needs to stop.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 11:12:17 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 08, 2020, 07:47:58 pmA better option might have been to give the product the 5 stars it deserved, but call the seller out for being a scammy scummy scroungy scrooge?

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 12:05:32 am
content: As others have pointed out above, I find that looking more at the negative reviews is more insightful.Obviously you still have to weed out ones that seem to be more pilot error/idiot buyer type problems rather than actual issues with a given product, but I find that ascertaining the potential pitfalls of something more from the negative reviews that talk about specific issues with a product, (the handle broke off the second time I tried to use it, etc.) are the most useful in deciding whether or not to buy some specific item.Not that competitors couldn't try to leave negative reviews for competing products or something, but I think that the negative reviews tend to be far less "gamed" than positive reviews where youreallyhave to take everything you read with a grain of salt.

author: Fgrir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 06:24:52 pm
content: Looks like the scammers are on to all of us who only look at the one-star reviews toohttps://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54063039Quote