Handheld Oscilloscope for Automotive - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 03:17:21 pm
content: Hey guys. I am into automotive diagnosis (12V) and would like to learn how to use a scope, but don't want to spend a ton of money on my first one. I would also like something that i can set the gains on my car amplifiers with. I'm not too familiar with them but would like your opinions. Trying to keep it under 200 USD but closer to 150. Thanks!

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:02:02 pm
content: Anybody?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:04:07 pm
content: Most diagnosis only requires a meter, and your budget is low enough I wouldn't recommend much. The cheapest thing would probably be something like a hantek 2d82 but I don't know about the quality, lots of people had problems here and they start about 50 over your budget. My first auto scope was a fluke 98 series II but checking eBay they are WAY over your budget.Is this for professional use? If so save up for something tough and decent. If not find other ways to diagnose issues. A meter really covers 95+% of diag until you can afford a quality scope.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:07:54 pm
content: If you are testing only audio frequencies then a Mustool MT8206 might work for you. About $70 on Banggood/Aliexpress. Its only single channel but has the benefit of an added crappy DMM attached.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:11:34 pm
content: Wow, the third such thread in a couple of weeks...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/budget-handheld-scope/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-cheap-handheld-scope-to-buy-with-good-triggering/

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:34:40 pm
content: Yes, I would like to use the scope to look at the sine wave coming from my subwoofer amplifier. I would also like to be able to read sensors & the CAN network in vehicles. I own several decent multi meters already and use them for diagnostics already but I enjoy new challenges & an o scope looks like it lol. I don't mind used, but again, I know nothing about o scopes besides what I've seen visually. I saw the pico 2204a but don't know if it's good for my uses. Looking at you guys like my mentors, I trust you! I'm experienced in other things and hope those forum members listen to me as well lol

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:40:15 pm
content: Looking at can is a big ask for that price, assuming you don't want to plug the scope into the wall all the time. Just looking at audio there are a lot of lousy scopes that work. If you don't need accuracy or decoding and you're very careful that extends to everything. So you really can choose any cheapo you like. All you'll be doing for audio is watching for clipping, and the rest you just look for sanity.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:53:03 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on November 14, 2019, 10:34:40 pmYou're brave!As for the 2204a, you can't really go wrong with Pico stuff, although there is of course a price premium over the Chinese offerings. You're also moving the goal posts a bit - (the 2204a being USB), however if you're open to USB then it does certainly open up your options a bit. Check out the Pico automotive stuff too (both the dedicated scopes and probes for standard scopes).

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:55:37 pm
content: What handheld can I cut my teeth on without getting frustrated from lack of features? I don't mind USB as I have both a gaming laptop and a laptop I'm not afraid to get dirty. What is available for what I need in my price range here? I don't want to outgrow it too quick but once I have the hang of it I'll have a better understanding of what I need and don't need. You guys can just get me what I need NOW.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 11:04:30 pm
content: Do check out the suggestions in the two threads I linked, but generally with handhelds...- You're less likely to get 2 channels with a (lowish cost) handheld against a USB of the same price. That will get frustrating more or less immediately.- Screen size and resolution is an obvious limitation- Ease of selecting functions and changing settings will potentially more fiddly and frustrating.- You need to check bandwidth and particularly triggering options carefully.P.S. Not ignoring you from now on - I'm off to bed!

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 11:11:54 pm
content: So it looks like I'll get more out of a usb based scope? So what can we look in these scopes? I think I'd need two channel at least but if one channel is more quality, I'm all for that.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 01:10:25 am
content: So was this for professional use? I don't think you answered that. The reason automotive scopes are typically self contained units is because anything else is a pain in the ass. When I look at something under the hood I set the scope down and probe it. Are you going to leave the laptop in there too(you shouldn't), or run cables everywhere you need it? It's just not practical, it wastes time and will put you off of using it.I really think you should save your money and either buy one of the hantek units(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-2c422c722d422d72/), a used fluke(since they're decent and the cheapest "good" handhelds), or don't save and buy a cheapy chinese one that tickles your fancy. BW doesn't matter, sample rate BARELY matters, memory barely matters(few k is fine)... All of those things are true for what you're probably looking to do with amplifiers as well. Ideally you get a 2 channel so you can more easily look at related signals(like 2 O2 sensors) but even that is a bonus. Another nearly must have feature is saving screens AND being able to review them either on unit or externally. You can also look for a used siglent handheld or micsig ms200/300.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 01:51:54 am
content: I don't mind toting the laptop around honestly. It won't be for professional use, my body doesn't let me professionally work on vehicles anymore, but I still do at my residence. I just want something affordable I can learn on and handle automotive stuff and when I grasp the concept better and can know what better I need, I can look into desktop units. I will look into what you've mentioned!

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 02:08:39 am
content: Well if you don't mind cable management and the occasional extra work(you sometimes have to set up, get out to check, then get back in to disconnect) then I think it could work for you. I work now just like I did professionally and that would be an absolute pain for me. The 2204 could work for you but it only comes with standard probes. You'll probably also want to pick up 10(or 20):1 attenuators for O2s, an inductive probe for ignition(inductive interconnect for COP) and a current probe if you don't have one already to cover all your bases.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 02:33:08 am
content: Are there other USB oscilloscope you'd recommend? Owon? Hantek?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 02:39:29 am
content: Pico has an actual automotive scope with... Mostly isolated channels but it costs significantly more and all of the accessories are high cost(not that you need to buy theirs). Hantek has one but I wouldn't trust their software to work since they basically fire and forget with their PC software. I'm not really one to ask about USB scopes though, I own 0 and rarely ever check them out.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 03:06:17 am
content: You can investigate the Pico scopes.Great thing is they have software specifically for automotive.Plus they have waveform data that you can use as an aid to diagnosis.You will need sensors that are available through PICO and you can build some of your own.Current sensors, compression sensors, Vacuum sensors are extremely handy, as are Spark plug testers.A two channel scope is workable for analyzing spark vs fuel injector, however I have found 4 channels is best.Just re-read your original post... you will need 200 just for sensors. 10X probes are not much use for automotive.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 07:17:31 am
content: If you search for "multimeter oscilloscope" on aliexpress there's quite a few things like this:Can I tell you detials of all the models? Pros and cons? Which is "best"? No, but they're out there.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 10:32:45 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 15, 2019, 07:17:31 amEh. I'm looking for stand alone. The thing is, I want to work with my amp first. After that I plan to scope some working things on my car to get a feel and practice. I also have old sensors I can mess with too that are bad. I'm trying to keep within a budget (but with every hobby or interest I end up selling my soul) so that I have some control over the product I get. I will eventually go all out I'm sure, but I'd like a quality starter scope that won't mess up on me but also can grow a bit with me. I was originally looking at the hantek 1008c. Looked pretty feature rich. Then I saw pico makes one, whom I'm familiar with. The 2204/2205 are in my range. I can stretch my budget a little if it's worth it, but not double. I'd like to buy used but I don't know how far out these things can go with calibration and adhesion, I wouldn't know what to look for. So if the pico 2205 is worth it over the 2204 or another scope in the 250 range, I'm all for it.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 10:58:42 am
content: Another way to go is the Analog Discovery.I subscribe to a YouTube channel about tube amps where the poster, with lots of experience, tries out the Analog Discovery; El Paso Tube Amps.Sounds as though you are starting about where I did 5 years ago.I wanted to test transistor and tube amplifiers and also learn about the functioning of automotive engines.My first scope was a Rigol 1052Z that was small enough and bright enough to use outdoors and under the hood. Very important !I paid 350 used on eBay and after a few years use, I sold it for 320.What is a helpful feature of Digital scopes is waveform storage and the ability to scroll through an extended time frame.50MHz is plenty of bandwidth for amplifiers and auto engines.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 11:17:53 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on November 15, 2019, 02:33:08 amCertainly the Owon over the Hantek, no contest (~ $100 for the galvanically isolated one), better H/W and performance, decent triggering. That's rather under your budget though (which is important at this level) - you're in that 'awkward' range between low cost USB and Desktops, with a bunch of so-so handhelds.Pico might well be the way to go for you, they certainly have it quality-wise. They do decent oversampling which effectively gets you a couple of extra bits of vertical resolution, which might be useful for audio. Go and download their S/W, I'm pretty sure it will have an evaluation mode. Get the feel of their UI, it's certainly comprehensive but you'll probably either love it or hate it - it's quite 'windows app' in feel. Their support is first rate too.If you really want to go lower cost with the Owon, it is still decent quality but lacks things like serial decode and a lot of of the fancy Pico measurements (it has the basic set). You can download the S/W too - no demo mode, so you won't get traces, but you can roughly get a feel for the UI. It doesn't need much of a laptop either.I really have no experience of the Handhelds in that price range, you need to do your homework very closely on those.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 05:49:06 pm
content: I bought the owon vds3102 for $255 brand new. Hopefully it gives me something good to learn on for a bit.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 09:06:59 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-2c422c722d422d72/Hantek 2000 series all the way.I have no idea why you bought a USB scope for automotive. That seems like a bad idea.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 09:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: frogg on November 15, 2019, 09:06:59 pmWhy a bad idea?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 09:30:58 pm
content: Quote from: frogg on November 15, 2019, 09:06:59 pmReading that thread, I just see a succession of problems and queries.

author: Ap_EE_1990
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 10:24:50 am
content: I can weigh in here, I'm currently working for a prestige automotive company as a diagnostic tech too, we use picoscope as designated by the manufacturer. And, like everyone else has mentioned, they're worth the money, however from experience, you can get away with a hantek. Just make sure it's 4 channel, and you get the attentuators for use on ignition systems to protect against high voltage. As for CAN and LIN networks, a hantek is fine, the software isnt as good and can be a little buggy but for the price is fine. The biggest thing with automotive work is knowing what a good signal should look like for your specific brand/vehicle. All manufacturers use different sensors that give different readings so it's good to build up a library of good known signals on a USB for later use. Hope some of this has helped.Ash

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 05:35:09 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on November 15, 2019, 09:25:43 pmBecause you need a computer to go with a USB scope. Then, you need a place to put your computer. Then you need to supply power to said computer. Then you need to connect the computer to the USB scope. Then you need to be able to look at the computer while you diagnose the car.Oops, now you have to work on the outside of the car. Gotta move the scope, the computer, the USB cable connecting the two, the power supply, etc.Oh man, now you have to look at some signals while you are inside the vehicle. Gotta to move it all over again.Ad infinitum

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 05:45:23 pm
content: It doesn't seem to have hampered the popularity of Pico's Automotive product range!

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 05:59:02 pm
content: Pico is popular.And the software with updates is free.Waveforms library also available.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 06:08:04 pm
content: Quote from: frogg on November 16, 2019, 05:35:09 pmI can't run it off a battery powered laptop?

author: Ap_EE_1990
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 07:23:35 pm
content: Yes you can, the laptop doesn't need to be on charge.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 08:03:55 pm
content: He's just trying to point out how cumbersome and excessive USB scopes are for automotivee diagnostic applications. I'm curious which brand recommends pico, it's not BMW, Honda, Mercedes, or vag. No way it's Toyota, my friends at Tesla don't have pico scopes. Is it actually a small brand that sells for too much?

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 09:15:08 pm
content: I don't find a laptop cumbersome when you think about it you have the world at your fingertips. I would have preferred a dmm sized scope but I guess a larger screen isn't bad either

author: Ap_EE_1990
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 03:11:57 am
content: PICO is recommended by Jaguar/Land Rover (Range Rover) and Aston Martin, from what I'm hearing (from our helpdesk engineers) is that a few other European manufacturers have used it or are looking at implementing it now, its the only true way of diagnosing CAN/LIN and Flexray networks and know with absolute certainty you have a wiring issue. As well as almost everything is controlled via PWM in cars now.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 03:24:15 am
content: Quote from: frogg on November 16, 2019, 05:35:09 pmThat's the issue I've had with USB scopes, in my case I have an old Bitscope that I've had since back before I had any other DSO. It's cumbersome to have multiple separate devices strung together and trying to find places to perch them inside car interiors or under the hood. Then when the USB port on your laptop is a little worn they can get flaky so you bump or wiggle the cable and the bus locks up. When that happens the "wonderful" design of Windows means you have to power cycle the machine to recover because a USB serial interface that is disconnected while in use never times out, it will even cause the shutdown process to hang if you try to restart it. I've been planning to sell the Bitscope because I haven't used it even once since getting a proper self contained DSO.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 06:10:19 am
content: Quote from: Ap_EE_1990 on November 17, 2019, 03:11:57 amThat sounds right, expensive niche manufacturers can do that. While it can work, I won't deny that, I don't think it's the best way to go when you're trying to diagnose and repair a few cars a day. Even for working on your own car I think it's riskier(trip on a cable and you might take your laptop and/or scope with you) and more cumbersome. You can get used to anything though and if you're willing to sacrifice the advantages of handheld units for a PC based unit there are probably some advantage of its own to be had. I just don't think they outweigh the advantages of a handheld unit.

author: Ap_EE_1990
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 08:47:37 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 17, 2019, 06:10:19 amI must admit when we got sent the scope from the manufacturer and I looked up the price I was blown away, its a great USB scope but the thought of the quality of the benchtop scope you could get for the same price makes you wonder whether they're worth it, A handheld would definitely be a better option, especially when your hooked up into a network and you need to drive a car to get a fault to occur, there's cables everywhere. unfortunately we don't get a say in it. I still think if you want a budget conscious option that'll work on the rare occasion that you use it, a 4 channel hantek is good, not sure how expensive handhelds are.....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:46:48 am
content: Quote from: Ap_EE_1990 on November 17, 2019, 08:47:37 pmYou're paying for the Pico software as much as the hardware. That stuff isn't free.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 05:02:51 pm
content: I don't really consider the software to be a separate entity, it's of no use without the hardware and vice versa. Technically you're paying for the software in a benchtop oscilloscope too, it's a not insignificant portion of the development effort.I still don't really see the appeal of a USB scope that requires a separate computer vs an integrated instrument that I can carry around and set up without a tangle of wires and separate bits chained together.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 03:46:41 am
content: I'm enjoying the owon! Still have some learning to do but for not reading any directions (lol) and setting it up to read my amp, I did just fine.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 08:03:00 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 18, 2019, 05:02:51 pmFeel free to use a benchtop oscilloscope instead.Oh, wait, you need that special software...?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 04:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 21, 2019, 08:03:00 amI think you're missing the point. Software is required for a bench top, handheld, or USB scope for the hardware to be of any use. Claiming that only pico has software you need isn't true.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 07:35:00 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 21, 2019, 04:17:08 pmNope, you're the ones missing the point.The OP said:"the thought of the quality of the benchtop scope you could get for the same price makes you wonder whether they're worth it"I'm saying is that thevalueof a Picosscope in an automotive context doesn't come from the sample rate or the number of waveforms per second, it comes from the Automotive-oriented software that comes with it.(ie. This:https://www.picoauto.com/products/automotive-oscilloscope-kit/picoscope-kits-software)

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 09:56:51 am
content: Hahaha, there are other automotive scopes for way less money. You can get everything and have a handy package for it all that's easy to drive with. Let me guess, only Pico makes real automotive scope software and that is why almost nobody uses them professionally? They aren't worth the cost and the software isn't that special.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 10:25:15 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 22, 2019, 07:35:00 amJust to clarify, the "software" being spoken of here is more related to the specific automotive tests that are built into the pico software, such as the starting and charging test that can detect battery, starter and alternator issues, cylinder balance and compression tests, can bus decoding and much more.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 11:22:27 am
content: Quote from: SMdude on November 22, 2019, 10:25:15 amYep. I'm fairly sure a "bench scope" doesn't have 150 guided tests built in for automotive diagnosis.https://www.picoauto.com//library/automotive-guided-testsThat's the added value I'm referring to. It's what you're paying for, not the 'scope hardware.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 11:56:04 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 22, 2019, 11:22:27 amAnd a library of thousands of good/bad waveforms to compare to...And also, auto electricians I know have more laptops and computers than wrenches...Everything is PC (laptop) based. From service manuals, to all kinds of programmers, CAN/LIN diagnostics, ..Also in the electronics lab, I have several PC based instruments (2 USB scopes and SA, several USB logic analyzers.).It takes less space, 24" (touch) screen beats any physical instrument, and it makes saving data easy. I have a dedicated PC for it and it works great.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 06:58:42 pm
content: I suppose there are cases where it makes sense. A bench scope certainly *could* provide all that if a company wanted to include it but maybe they decided the market is too small for multiple players. Personally I loath touchscreens and want to smack anyone who puts fingerprints on my screen. I tolerate it on my phone because I can't carry around a proper keyboard and mouse in my pocket but otherwise I'll take knobs and switches over touch any day.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 07:42:06 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 22, 2019, 06:58:42 pmStill bothers me to this day..But after you get used to it, it is as fast as knobs..

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 08:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 22, 2019, 09:56:51 amYou miss the point.You are paying for a deep memory (256 Ms) (yes Mega-samples)A true 12 Bit A/D converter (up to 8 channels depending on model)And the good support (which is minimum factor 4 more responsive as that for our 20K Eur desk top oscilloscope).The worth is in the saving of time when evaluating+documenting complex pulse trains.with best regardsAndreas

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 08:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 22, 2019, 11:56:04 amFreely available online. Let's not forget that any tech that needs them REALLY shouldn't be blowing money on something so expensive when something much cheaper will work.QuoteAny technician with more computers than wrenches is a bad tech. You don't care why comms aren't working internally. It goes like this usually... No comms with 1 or more control units. Check powers and grounds on affected modules. Check for shorts to power/ground on data lines, no shorts? Replace affected units. Shorts? Disconnect affected modules and recheck, no shorts? Reconnect modules rechecking bus until you find faulty unit. Shorts? Find short in harness. Occasionally you need to diagnose a faulty module causing issues on bus so you monitor with scope, typically just for glitches, while taking modules out of the loop.QuoteThis is fine for a mostly fixed lab, not for a highly dynamic workspace.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 08:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: Andreas on November 22, 2019, 08:12:04 pmI've never needed any of those things to diagnose a vehicle.You guys seem to think working on a vehicle, which is what the intended use for op was(along with very basic amplifier setup), is the same as diagnosing your latest design. Vehicles are much slower and much simpler. He's not looking to build or modify units from what he said so 8 channels, 12 bits, deep memory... It's almost useless. He also already bought a USB scope that he's happy with. Let picoscope do their own marketing rather than tell me what you think is required to fix cars.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 08:44:53 pm
content: It's rare that I can't fix a car with a multimeter and OBDII reader. Most of the electrical faults I find are bad sensors, dirty/corroded connectors and damaged wiring.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 10:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on November 22, 2019, 08:12:57 pmWell I had a situation where the can bus would go bad intermittently.Checking wiring found no rub marks etc.The Pico automotive scopes come with long test leads so you don't have to be right next to where you are measuring.I was able to find the exact cause of the fault very quickly once I hooked up the scope to the can bus.Sure, this could have been any battery powered scope, but I already have the laptop with me as the OEM service tool.I could have used any half decent scope to do that same job, but the pico is what we have and is supported and recommended by the OEM.The built in tests and tutorials are great because many automotive mechanics are not familiar with a scope and struggle with a multi-meter. So it can guide you. The compression/balance and starting tests are quite nifty too.Ive used the scope with a current sensor(supplied in kit) to find intermittent shorts and also to find broken wires in a loom, bad connections in plugs, bad earths, find internal mechanical faults, hydraulic pressure testing, confirm dead sensors and even find/confirm software faults. I could use any half reasonable 4ch portable scope as I don't need the tutorials and reference waveforms due to understanding the sensors and systems I am working with and could make test leads as required, but for a workshop something like the pico automotive scope is great because it comes with everything you need(long leads, current sensors) to do most of the testing you will need to do with it along with the tutorials that will help you save time if anyone is game enough to touch it!As James_S said, most of the electrical faults I find are damaged wiring, corroded connectors and bad sensors, in that order.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 11:05:08 pm
content: I'm not arguing it is useless, but here in NA technicians own their tools. I haven't worked at a shop yet that had a general purpose scope for people to use. You either had your own or you borrowed one. Some manufacturers use standard PC's(or laptops) and some don't and that might influence your decision. When it comes to cost efficiency of a tool though the automotive picoscope is going to be very low, if not on the bottom, of that list. Their standard scopes don't fare much better if you need to buy a laptop for it. It absolutely seems to be an OEM style tool, not a technician preferred one. Even at 180K a year I'd absolutely recommend against it. I wouldn't laugh at someone if I saw them using it but I would be curious why they decided to spend their money on that. At BMW we'd have 2, if any, cables connected to a car for diag. 1 Ethernet if your wireless network is down for the head, and 1 for a battery charger. For both of those cable though they become a part of your static workspace. That's only my opinion for professional use.For someone who wants it available when they need it for their cars, maybe friends and family? It's throwing money in the trash. I'd much more likely recommendhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/153728432602The $400 version even includes two different current clamps.