EEVblog #994 - CERN/Fermilab Particle Accelerator Boards - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 10:49:52 pm
content: Amazing mailbag dumpster find!Boards for particle accelerator testing at CERN and Fermilab found in a dumpster at the The Svedberg Laboratory in Sweden:http://www.tsl.uu.se/Designed by Lecroy!Also a look at FASTBUS, VME, CAMAC modular crate electronics.LINKS:http://teledynelecroy.com/lrs/dsheets/1881m.htmhttp://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/1872aman.pdfhttp://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/673198/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Colliderhttps://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:23031694https://books.google.com.au/books?id=wDnUBwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA927&dq=lecroy%20mtd132&pg=PA927#v=onepage&q=lecroy%20mtd132&f=falseThanks to Uwe Zimmermann:http://katalog.uu.se/profile/?id=N3-1095

author: sibeen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 12:44:23 am
content: I just love watching these videos of board porn.

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 07:42:17 am
content: I was hoping these boards would be appreciated

author: cj
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:27:22 am
content: Wow these boards are way more complex than the CAMAC boards I used when I was doing work at cyclotron particle accelerator facility at the Eindhoven technical University.In particle physics some detectors will generate a pulse when a particle hits the detector and the height of the pulse is a measure of energy. The ADCs used in these applications use track and hold circuits which tracks a pulse until it reaches its maximum value then hold the value which then is passed to a regular ADC. After the ADC is done the hold circuit is reset so it can capture another pulse. The digital data from the ADC has low value for low energy and high values for high energy. If a histogram is made it shows how often a certain energy level is detected. The result is a graph showing the energy spectrum of detected particles.In other experiments the detection of two or multiple particles and the timing of the detection is important this requires high speed electronics and high resolution event detectors.This results in some very cool electronics as can be seen on the boards Dave has got.The TRW chip on the first board Dave shows isn’t a processor but a 10bit 20MSPS flash ADC (TDC1020).CJ

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 03:00:15 pm
content: there's some LH0032 opamps on there.family of the fast and damn fast opamps...http://www.repeater-builder.com/humor/pdfs/national-lh0033c-damn-fast.pdf

author: donmr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 07:38:56 pm
content: Some time ago, as an EE student, I worked in a lab building boards like that. It was great experience.The detectors were boxes with arrays of ~200-400 wires per box. Each wire went to a channel of an acquisition board. So each box had a lot of boards. This was all very fast (for the day) and some of the nearby equipment generated large EM pulses so signal integrity was a big deal.I learned a lot from the ex Boeing engineers who ran the EE part of things.

author: k4rlhp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 07:51:59 pm
content: Dave mentions framing one of these boards.This reminds me of a legend that used to circulate around here.Allegedly, a guy in his early thirties used old boards as tapestry for his room. All the walls in the room covered.Apparently, some crap leaked from caps and whatnot over time and the guy developed a condition that cost him his dear life.The guy was a legend in a crooked way and I knew him from a local fidonet bbs and the corresponding meet ups.For sure, a room decorated like that would have been right up that guys alley.If that legend has any truth to it, then Dave needs to find a hazmat container for all the old goodies sent to him, or else...We're watching out for you, bro

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 07:56:47 pm
content: all that yummy lecroy porn.these series of modules usually come up on ebay but i never found any info.wish there were fan sites for lecroy like there is for tek and hp...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:28:11 pm
content: When looking at prices for the LH0032 I found them with this awesome logo

author: EvilGeniusSkis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:47:23 pm
content: Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, if you only have one S/N you assume it is in the middle of the range, meaning for the board at 4:10, we can assume 50 were made.On another note, any plans for episode 1000 Dave?

author: gemby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: EvilGeniusSkis on May 17, 2017, 08:47:23 pmSpeaking of episode #1000, i am still waiting for episode #741

author: mikemcginn@mcginnweb.net
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 10:03:29 pm
content: I worked at LeCroy from 12/84 until 11/91. When I left I was a Test Engineer working on Fastbus. LeCroy built hundreds of the 1878/79 series of TDC's and the 1880 series of charge ADC's. I am not sure about the 1872 Dave has that used the MTD chip - that was around the time I left.I would go into the counting houses at Fermilab, CERN and Brookhaven and they would have racks full of these things. This was before LeCroy became solely an oscilloscope company.

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 11:01:19 pm
content: In the youtube comments there was a question about a 555 on those boards. Well, I found one! I am not sure if Dave got a copy of this board as well - I could only fit so many different boards into the box and stay just short of 20 kg. I even carried 3 boards out of the post office because they were above the limit...Anyway, I found one on a Lecroy 1875 TDC boardSorry for all the electrons falling out of the Lecroy chips to the left...Quote

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 01:57:20 pm
content: There is another 555 (or more exactly an MC1455) on a board which Dave showed in the video as well - it's right in the middle of the Lecroy 1885F ADC board, seen right after the guest appearance of the Swedish chef:https://youtu.be/0DmzxUM-9v0?t=14m34s

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 06:37:33 pm
content: There is nothing wrong with the 555 chip - I have had occasions where I needed a simple pulse train or very simple pulse and have used them. Last occurence 4 years years ago

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 08:34:12 pm
content: Quote from: Neilm on May 18, 2017, 06:37:33 pmOf course not and nobody said there would be. It's just that somebody asked if there were any 555s on these boards - and yes, they are

author: uwezi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 08:37:19 pm
content: By the way, I find it amazing how thin the traces are on this particular board. I mean, you don't need wide traces if you don't have any current to transport, but this looks extremely thin - feeding two of them between two 2.54mm dip pins...

author: mikemcginn@mcginnweb.net
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 09:24:34 pm
content: You should have seen the traces on the multiwire boards LeCroy used on some Fastbus products.

author: JonM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 04:15:49 am
content: Ahh, the "original" LeCroy. The first LeCroy device I used was a 10 step attenuator box in 1973. During eight years working in two nuclear physics labs there were a fair amount of LeCroy electronics in the mix.When I moved to chemical physics in 1980, partly for the one-room / one-person, lab experience I brought along nuclear physics techniques. One thing I needed was a TDC (time to digital converter, mentioned in the video). The first problem was that a CAMAC "crate" and the associated computer interface was beyond my now small budget. So, I built a "poor man's CAMAC interface" that connected a single CAMAC module to an Apple II (running the UCSD pSystem). The next problem was that the LeCroy 2228A TDC had a common start but eight independent stop signals while I needed to deliver multiple stop pulses on a single line. LeCroy was happy to suggest that I add seven mod wires to make that happen, and they said the warranty would not be affected. I also had to build an ECL fanout to shorten the pulses and supply them to all of the stops.When LeCroy introduced their first oscilloscope it was a bit of a shock, but it was likely an outgrowth of their line of CAMAC "transient recorders". By then I was in industry and ended up building a LeCroy scope and arbitrary waveform generator into a large instrument, with the added fun of being a beta tester for the AWG. LeCroy discontinued the physics instrumentation lines in 2001 to focus on scopes, etc. At some point after that (I believe) they were acquired by Teledyne.As for NIM and CAMAC, both were heavily used in nuclear physics, NIM modules (in NIM bins) were the analog devices, and CAMAC modules (in CAMAC crates) were the digital world.