RE HID Lights - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 04:18:19 am
content: I have an HID system on my car.Recently, the left bulb blue out, and I think maybe it is because the way the lights turn on initially.When I hit the switch, the lights turn on full, then dims to zero and slowly ramps up to full. This all happens within a matter of a few seconds. I'm thinking that maybe because the lights go on full at first initial flick of the switch, this may cause something to go wrong in the bulb.Is this the way the HID's operate, or is there something wrong?If something is wrong, is there a simple way to make the lights turn on less violently? Like maybe a resistor in line with the bulb, or something? I don't want to get up under the dash (the switch is in the steering column) or break open the HID control boxes (there's two, one for each light). I have a 2005 Mazda 6s if anyone knows about that.Thanks in advance.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 04:19:50 am
content: FYI, I bought the car with the HID installed already, it is NOT factory.Also, I've owned the car for over a year with the lights operating this way, just earlier this week, the bulb blue out (i think it's the bulb, haven't checked yet, it's just not on).

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 04:38:05 am
content: A topic I could go on for hours about. I know HIDs quite well. The initial flash you see is a 24kV arc. The ballast initially guess the arc to get it established, the blue light comes from the ionized xenon gas. Once the arc is established, the voltage drops because less voltage is needed to maintain the arc. As the capsule heats up, transition metal salts within the capsule vaporize. It is these salts which actually produce the white light. These two phases are the reason for the way you watch the bulbs light up.As for the bulls themselves, HID bills do not die like halogen bulbs. As time goes on the bulb actually gets dimmer and dimmer. The bulbs usually will get much dimmer than halogen before they burn out. Cheap bulbs have MUCH shorter life than oem bulbs. Usually around 500-800 hours, while oem it's around 2000-3000 hours. Ebay is flooded with cheap bulbs (I have one trusted seller hidbulbzrus , I've seen their invoices from Philips). One rule of thumb if it's under 50-60 for the pair it's fake because that's below the wholesale price from the oems.I just noticed your stuff is not OEM, it might be the ballast. Aftermarket ballasts die all the time.Also, since you are dealing with aftermarket Philips does not rebase bulbs. There are some bulbs that licensed the Philips name but they are made by cn lights. So don't believe the hype.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 04:41:10 am
content: This is generally how they work. They do it to evaporate the metal salts quicker to provide better efficiency and light output.The most detrimental thing to HID lamp life is cycleing them whilst still hot.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 04:59:13 am
content: Okay, thanks Pedro.So because the fact the bulb just suddenly quit working, tells me that the ballast is shot. Well, It lasted over a year, and cheap 35w kits are about $40. Cheap 55w kits are $50. Doesn't make sense to replace it with another cheap ballast, when I can just buy a whole new 35w kit and have an extra ballast and bulbs left. Or, better yet, upgrade and buy the 55w kit.If it lasts another year, it's worth the $50. I have no idea how long the kits were on the car before I bought it, but knowing the guy I bought it from, He probably upgraded to an HID kit within the first year of owning the car. o the kit probably has 6 or 7 years on it.I know they sell better and more expensive kits, I will look into them, but right now, my budget calls for the cheap kit to get me back on the road.I was more concerned with how they turned on and was worried something was wrong. Now that I know that's hwo they work, I can rest easy.Thanks Guys.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 05:02:38 am
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on December 22, 2013, 04:18:19 amThe initial light pulse with HID is normal. Some fancy headlights also do some mechanical calibration that adds to the excitement. HID bulbs decay slowly over time, hard to notice unless if you compare to a 'good' car. Had similar problem with my previous car, all the miles where with lights on. Installed new bulbs (OEM, from the dealer, ebay may be more econonic) and problem solved.HID uses high voltage so be careful when you deal with it. Disconnect the battery, let it discharge, etc.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 05:06:47 am
content: didn't know about the high voltage thing. I was just going to pop open the hood and poke the ballasts with a stick and see what happens.How would I go about disconnecting everything (once I disconnect the battery)?Do I need a resistor to tap across the leads to discharge it, like I would with a Car Audio Capacitor?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 05:41:11 am
content: Not at all, I've worked with ballasts a lot. Just don't give them power when you try to disconnect them. Otherwise they are quite safe.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 05:53:11 am
content: One more thing, first thing to try is swap the bulls from side to side. If the problem follows the bulb you know its the bulb. If the problem remains on that side it's either the ballast or the wiring to the ballast.Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 05:56:14 am
content: yes, I will try that, but from what you said about the bulbs dimming instead of just not turning on, AND from what i've been reading the last hour on other forums, it sounds more like the ballast.I think I'll just upgrade the kit to a 55w. I new ballast is $8, or a new bulb for $13. So, I might as well just upgrade the kit and reinstall for the little extra. I was just more concerned with how they were turning on and it worried me.

author: 300EVIL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 07:44:04 am
content: You get what you pay for... An $8 ballast will last $8 worth of time. This is why Mercedes use Phillips brand ballasts and bulbs; not some "Wonhunglow" brand.....2 cents.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 12:09:41 pm
content: Aren't they basically the same technology used in projectors' lamps? The low few thousand hours lifetime at most seems rather bad for a car application... the headlamps on mine have not be replaced for at least 10 years. I'd go with regular halogen or maybe even LED now.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2013, 12:28:07 pm
content: The lamps in car headlighting need to be up to close to full brightness in under a second, so the starting regime is brutal to say the least. Initial power for a nominal 55W lamp is close to 200W for the first 30 seconds or so until the tube warms up and the arc voltage drops down to a lower level of around 55V from 300V or so. on a projector the lamp starts up at low current and warms up over a 3-4 minute period, with cooling air as well, and when turned off it is cooled till it reaches close to room temperature.In a car the lamp is heated very fast, and there is no thermal control and no cooling aside from convection in the housing. Thus lamp life is limited by number of start cycles and temperature to at best a few hundred hours or around 1000 starts before failure. Daily use that translates to about 2 years and then you are in the area of high failure rates. As well the optical assembly is really designed for a halogen lamp running at 300-500c surface temperature, and this means the MH lamp will run at close to 300C while best life is at around 200C surface temp. The OEM lamps do better because the thermal design is better and there is extra cooling ( fins or a housing with air flow at the rear) to keep the lamp in the correct temperature.