How to start as an electrical & electronic engineering student - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Ahackly
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 06:42:43 pm
content: Hi guys,I'm a new student, I'll be doing my degree in mechatronics engineering next semester and a big part of my course is about electronics. I want some advice on what equipment should I get as a beginner: Oscilloscopes, function generators .. etc and also If you have any book recommendations that would be nice.Thanks in advance (:

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 07:17:57 pm
content: There are quite a few threads on here on this subject, often relating to how to get a job.Short version...Get your degree; theoretical knowledge is vital. Don't waste time learning which button to press to floggle the splater, but do spend time understanding fundamentals that will still be true in 25 years.Invent a project which will stretch your abilities, but is possible. Do it. Afterwards be able to describe (to interviewers) your mistakes and what you would do differently/better next time.Have fun.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 08:02:27 pm
content: I have no idea what is available in Oman nor have you established a budget.The safe answer:Siglent SDS1104X-E oscilloscope (although a Rigol DS1054Z is a close approximation) $479https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SDS1104X-oscilloscope-channels-standard/dp/B0771N1ZF9Siglent SDG1032X Arbitrary Waveform Generator $359https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDG1032X-Arbitrary-Waveform/dp/B01LECZU98Siglent SPD3303X-E Triple Output Power Supply $399https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SPD3303X-Triple-Output/dp/B01410O424Total above about $1237 in US and US$It would be nice to start at the top of the line with equipment but it may not be practical. For a student I would always recommend the Digilent Analog Discovery 2 which can replace much of the functionality included above at a fraction of the cost and is easily carried in a backpack with a laptop. Note some of the upgraded products like the Analog Discovery Studio if cost is not constrained.Costs about $399 plus some add-ons. There is a 'student bundle' that contains a lot of analog devices to play with and a Pro bundle that includes the BNC adapter. One thing about the AD2 is that the power supply output is low compared to a bench power supply. Sometimes you can just scale the problem.https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-2-100ms-s-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/Download the Waveforms software and play with the 'Demo' device to get a feel for how things work (no cost).https://digilent.com/shop/software/digilent-waveforms/It's pretty nice to be able to carry a relatively complete lab to the nearest coffee shop.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 08:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: Ahackly on May 23, 2023, 06:42:43 pmWhen you start your degree, they will tell you what books you need (you will be given a reading list).As to equipment, wait until you know a bit more before buying any. If you have not already bought tools and been making projects by now, do not expect to suddenly start doing that on day one of a degree. Maybe in your second or third year you will have enough knowledge to justify owning such things.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 08:27:30 pm
content: There a Primers sticky at the top of the forumhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/I would spend time at the Khan Academy Electrical Engineering forumhttps://www.khanacademy.org/science/electrical-engineeringIf your university is recognized you can get a really nice price on MATLAB and I would highly recommend you look into it. An alternative is GNU Octave which emulates the basic MATLAB but doesn't have the add-on Toolboxes. But Octave is pretty nice for crunching numbers and making graphs. Both have a lot of community support.www.desmos.comfor graphingwww.symbolabfor online equation solvingwww.calcworkshop.comsubscription math courses but Khan Academy has them as well.Engineering is all about math. I HIGHLY recommend CalcWorkshop.com even though it costs money (per year). The format is identical to what you would get in a classroom with a very experienced instructor.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 09:06:15 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 23, 2023, 08:27:30 pmAnd studying. And grasping difficult concepts.If I had had a dorm room full ofoscilloscopes, function generators, power supplies, multimeterstoys when I was at university, the temptation to spend time playing instead of studying would have been too great. It was difficult enough as it was on a university campus with so many activities and resources already on hand as distractions.

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 09:14:29 pm
content: Hopefully your university has agreements in place and packages like Solidworks and Matlab are free to students?You probably don't need any actual equipment though it is nice to have of course. If you need specialised gear the university will have it. A lot of what you do can be online. Simulink (inside Matlab) has a very comprehensive set of simulation tools for electronic circuits. There are several web sites that do a good job too, circuitlab is one.The text in my course "Electric Circuits" by Nilsson/Riedel is good but I could have just downloaded chapters from the RMIT library as required. Not sorry I have it but it wasn't cheap. Maybe your university library will offer the same?One of the biggest factors for success might be to surround yourself with group work partners that are interested in more than just passing. It has been surprising this year and last just how many groups have one person that wants a distinction and four people who are just too busy to get anything done.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 09:52:09 pm
content: It would seem inevitable that the course will at least touch on the Arduino platform and some kind of starter kit is useful in learning the platform:https://www.amazon.com/ELEGOO-Project-Tutorial-Controller-Projects/dp/B01D8KOZF4There a Mega version that uses the much enhanced ATmega 2560https://www.amazon.com/EL-KIT-008-Project-Complete-Ultimate-TUTORIAL/dp/B01EWNUUUAYou can start with either kit but the Uno R3 is pretty much a standard when wandering around the Internet.There's no reason to wait on this, you should be able to work through all of the tutorials in a week or so and become something of an expert before the topic comes up.Also, become very familiar with LTspice as a simulator. You WILL need it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 09:59:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on May 23, 2023, 09:06:15 pmDuring the height of Covid, most universities closed their labs and this lead to an increased demand for home labs. The demand for the AD2 increase a LOT and supplies were non-existent. The price increased substantially. Now that the event is over, the price has stayed high but inventory is available.I learn more from experiments than I ever do from equations. I want to see the trace on a scope or the voltage on a DMM. I don't care what the math says, I want to see it!

author: barshatriplee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 12:11:57 am
content: Buy a basic electronics starter kit too. Those contain breadboard, resistors, capacitors, jumper wires, LEDs, switches etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 12:41:28 am
content: Quote from: Ahackly on May 23, 2023, 06:42:43 pm

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 07:54:34 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 23, 2023, 09:59:12 pmI need the maths to understandsystem performanceand how a circuit will interact with the physics of the real world. Examples: a radio propagation channel, or a scanning tunnelling microscope head, or how much buffering (in FIFO) would be beneficial and harmful.I need the maths to understand what circuit isnotworth designing, because its performance canneverbe sufficient. And the reverse of course. Example: how carefullyaddingnoise canimproveperformance.I need the maths to understand what I'm seeing on a scope or DVM.If I want to tweak the performance, the maths indicates which component to tweak. I hate suck-it-and-see fiddling; too much like cargo-cult engineering.The maths indicates how sensitive the circuit is to variations in component value, hence the required tolerance and stability.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 08:24:18 am
content: BookArduino-Based Introductory Guided Exercises in MechatronicsTest EquipmentHantek 2D72 Handheld Oscilloscope 70MHz Waveform Generator Multimeter 3 in 1 Multifunction Tester 2CH+AFG+DMMI'd probably would take a punt, as indicated - on a student budget

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 09:29:04 am
content: Electronic engineers doesn't ask how to start and what equipment is needed. They just learn stuff for their needs and know what kind of equipment they are needs to do things that they want to do.Quote from: rstofer on May 23, 2023, 09:59:12 pmBut when you're already seen it and played with it, then you're want to understand how it works, how to predict it, how to improve or design such circuit. And then you're needs some math for modeling it.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 01:27:59 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on May 24, 2023, 09:29:04 amYes. That's a difference between a technician and an engineer.Before someone makes the usual points, I'll note that neither is better than the other, any more than a doctor/nurse is better than a nurse/doctor. Both are necessary, but it is worth thinking about the differencebeforeembarking on a career.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 01:31:54 pm
content: Go to your university lab. Find a teacher and volunteer for a project. Teachers love that, they always have something, you get extra time and attention and get to use the resources of the university.Then graduate and earn money. Then buy your equipment.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 04:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on May 24, 2023, 09:29:04 amIndeed! I'm the same guy who posted that engineering is all math. Still, there is something satisfying about seeing a -3dB break point right where it ought to be on the Bode' Plot of a real circuit. It's nice to see the exponential capacitor charging voltage rise in a way that matches the equation. It's also nice to verify 'ELI the ICE man' and see that 90 degree phase shift between capacitor current and voltage. There's little doubt that the math will be taught first but the lab time should come right behind.I like to see results of real circuits - not in the absence of the math but as reinforcement.And, yes, I did have to do the math to get through school. Back around '72, personal use of computers was a little more constrained but I had access to an IBM 1130 computer and source for the the IBM Electronic Circuit Analysis Program (ECAP) which I modified to output frequency and node voltages to punched cards that I could stuff back into a little plotting program I wrote to produce the Bode' Plot on log-log paper. I liked viewing a machine generated plot rather than the hand waving we did for class.Truth be known, I did it more for the fun of FORTRAN programming than for the Bode' Plot itself.

author: Ahackly
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 09:16:07 pm
content: Thanks for the suggestions,I actually study in the UK so I have access to pretty much all I need.I have a pretty decent foundation on electrical components like capacitors, resistors...etc and I understand the theory behind them, now do you think I should learn old school stuff such as 555 timer...etc or should I start learning arduino and programmable microcontrollers?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 09:32:55 pm
content: Your communication is a bit confusing.Quote from: Ahackly on May 23, 2023, 06:42:43 pmYou are starting your degree this year? Is that a BSc or a BEng, which will take 4 years or so?If so, you are going to be learning things far beyond putting together capacitors, resistors or microcontroller circuits. Hopefully you have looked at the course content for the degree you have enrolled in? You will find out what you need to learn when you begin. In the first year or two it is going to be lots of mathematics and lots of theory. Practical lab work will be scheduled by the department as part of the course, and the lab equipment will be made available as needed.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 10:00:54 pm
content: Quote from: Ahackly on May 24, 2023, 09:16:07 pmBe prepared for an unpleasant surprise: a decent university course should extend your understanding of network of such components in ways you haven't imagined.That's goodFor example, what's the s-domain transfer function of a network containing several resistors, capacitors and inductors? If you put the network in the feedback loop of an opamp, what's the transfer function of that circuit? How does it respond to small signal and large signal step inputs?For mechatronics, you will certainly need to understand control system theory. The starting point for understanding analogue control system response is the s-domain. For a discrete time sampled control system (e.g. digital or computer), that will be the z-domain. What's the relationship between the two?All those points are inter-related in deep and fundametal theoretical ways. If you don't understand that then you won't be able to predict whether a system you've been asked to build is trivial, practical, or impossible. Any competent engineer needs to be able to distinguish between those cases.Professor Eric Laithwaite at Imperial College used to set exams where one question was easy and sufficient get you a pass mark, one was more challenging and couuld get you a good degree, and one could not be answered adequately in the time available.He expected his undergraduate engineers to be able to determine which questions to avoid. If they couldn't, they wouldn't make good engineers anyway. I doubt he would be allowed to do that now, more's the pity.

author: kumarboopathi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 01:40:57 am
content: I could like to recommend "The Art of Electronics" by Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill. This is a comprehensive guide that covers the basics of electronics, circuit design, and practical applications. It's widely regarded as a must-have reference for anyone starting out in electronics. I hope it can help you

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 08:54:19 pm
content: Building on answer 2, for if you are somewhat shorter (factor of 2 to 3) on budget for a home lab setup to complement what you'll be able to use at the uni:For "fancy" test equipment get only "the"* oscilloscope,..any arbitrary waveforms you need you might well be able to build up circuits from op amps or logic chips to produce,..and for power supplying buy a few decent quality regulated wall wart supplies (5V, 12V, 24V (rarely used except in higher power stuff thesedays) extra 5V so you can wire it to become -5V... Raspberry Pi branded wall warts are good quality and 2A capable for your 5V needs) which will all give floating output voltages (not referenced to mains ground) with output connectors which can be broken out to breadboards/test leads (you can easily get microUSB breakouts to make a phone charger in to a cheap 5V bench supply). This won't be suitable or all electronics, but will work for a lot of applications, particularly if you're designing things which would end up being powered from a wall wart or a regulated supply driven from a battery...*An oscilloscope, which model is a long debate worth starting its own thread for with an explanation of your expected performance needs and previous experiencesGet a decent multimeter with volts, amps, ohms and some capacitance measuring capability too, from whichever seller in your area is well regarded for electronics and industrial grade equipment. Don't get this as an unprounceable-name-no-brand from the likes of amazon, get it as one of the lower brand options from whatever in your area passes for the equivalents of Farnell/RS/Mouser/Digikey(EDIT: saw you're in the UK, use one of those 4). These can be had for around £50 with autoranging. You can complement with a non-autoranging fairly crude £5 multimeter from those sellers too, if you ever have a circuit where you need to make two separate multimeter measurements at once.And get an arduino board too, can be very useful for interacting with other electronic systems even if mostof your final applications of circuits won't involve programmed microcontrollers.For books, don't buy at this stage. Your uni library should have the ones which will be most useful, and many older ones (particularly out-of-copyright old editions) are available as free pdfs online, often hosted on university websites or archive.org.