Flir TG267 abnormal behaviour - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 10:04:06 pm
content: Hello,I recently bought a Flir TG267 off eBay which is exhibiting the following behaviour:1. With the internal battery still has a charge, the meter automatically turns on, the logo is shown on the screen, I can hear the shutter on the thermal sensor being closed and open, then the screen goes black, and then the entire thing repeats.Due to the above, the internal battery will eventually run out.2. If the battery is flat (as it was when I received the unit) and I plug in a USB-C power supply, the same thing happens as above (i.e. automatically turns on, displays logo, exercises shutter, screen goes black, then repeats).I think this prevents the battery from being charged.3. Now, the interesting thing is that, if I charge the battery outside of the unit, re-install the battery in the TG267 and, while it is doing the above "boot loop", I press the power button, the device actually boots completely and works normally.If I then power off the unit, it goes back into the "boot loop".4. If I remove the battery from the unit, plug in a USB-C power supply and, during the "boot loop", I press the power button, the device will display a low/empty battery symbol and then restarts.In conclusion, it appears that this unit cannot power off.Other than that, it works normally.Has anyone encountered something like this and, if so, is this likely to be caused by a FW issue or a HW one?Thanks!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 11:33:21 pm
content: The power and charging management IC is a prime suspect in this case. The IC commonly becomes damaged by use of a incorrect or poor quality power supply. It is a very small SMD component, but may be replaced by someone experienced in working with modern BGA and leafless SMD technologies. I have not worked on the TG267 but I am familiar with FLIR camera designs.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 11:37:56 pm
content: Different fault symptoms and likely different power management IC, but this thread may still be useful in understanding the power and charge management used in these cameras.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-mk1-i3-not-charging/Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2023, 11:44:51 pm
content: The OP in the i3 thread states that after removing a shorted TVS protection diode, the camera worked but it would not switch off unless the battery was disconnected. In that particular case, it was the power and charging management IC that caused this problem. Fitting a new IC usually solves the problem.Fraser

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 10:12:10 am
content: Thanks for the information!However, the construction of TG267 does not seem to include a discrete power management IC, unless I missed it (please see picture included).The only unknown ICs are:- those marked with BRV...The only IC I could identify with that type of markings is TPS61050DRCR, but that's a high power white LED driver?However, given there are two such ICs, I doubt they do power management (and, even if they did, it's doubtful both would be broken).- those marked with 25 8H...But there are 5 of them across the board, so, I'm pretty sure they are not power management ICs.- that marked with TABOC or TAB0CI could not find any references to such markings, so I don't know what this is (it's a SOT-23-5 package).

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 10:19:45 am
content: Actually, there's also a QFN-10 IC in the lower-left area of the board, marked with 8130 and which I could not identify.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 01:10:24 pm
content: Thanks for providing the annotated imageThat is very different topology to the FLIR cameras that I have worked on. There will be several Power MOSFETs and DC-DC switching power supplies on that PCB.The DC-DC converters are easy to spot from their inductors. It could be that you have a shorted Power MOSFET that does not power the camera in the expected sequence.This will need some thought.I presume the rear of that PCB is pretty bare of anything interesting ?Fraser

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 03:02:15 pm
content: I am not sure about the scenario with the shorted MOSFET, as I would then expect the camera to not be fully functional, once turned on.I am still inclined to think it's a power management related problem, and I suspect that 8130 IC might be the chip we're looking for, but I am yet to find its datasheet.On the other side of the PCB are the screen (stuck on the board with double-sided tape) and buttons, but nothing else (unless there is something under the screen, but I doubt it, given the space available).Please see attached photo.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 05:33:32 pm
content: Just as with laptops, Power MOSFETS may be used to control when and where supply rails are present on subsystems. A shorted MOSFET scenario could provide power to systems at all times rather than in a controlled manner. A Power MOSFET failure in a DC-DC converter would, as you state, cause a more serious fault in the system due to loss of a power rail.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 09:39:13 pm
content: One step closer: a SOT-23-6 IC in the lower-left corner area of the board is a TPS22929D on-off switch controlled digitally, and the input pin which turns the switch on is always high (i.e. switch is constantly on).(I've updated the picture to include this new info.)I've desoldered the switch IC and used two wires for the IN and OUT pads.Now, with the two wires disconnected, the camera draws no power. Pressing the power button also does not turn the camera on.At the same time, if I connect a USB-C power supply to the camera, it is charging the battery (makes sense, since that is in a separate section of the board and circuitry).If I connect the two wires, then the camera starts going through the boot loop that we are already familiar with.So, the culprit is whatever controls that input pin which is supposed to turn this switch on and off but, in fact, keeps it always turned on.And, I am fairly certain it is our mysterious "8130" IC that is controlling that pin.Now if only I could find out what IC that is...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2023, 11:34:09 pm
content: Can you post a picture of the 8130 IC markings please.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 12:01:25 am
content: The IC marked "25" is probably a Richtek part.Here is a similarly marked Richtek Synchronous Step-Down Converter:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32262921749.htmlEdit: found it.RT8070ZQW, Richtek, Synchronous Step-Down Converter, 4A, 2MHz, 2.7V - 5.5V, marking 25, WDFN-8L 3x3:https://www.richtek.com/assets/product_file/RT8070/DS8070-09.pdfCould TABxx be a R3118N311A?R3118N311A, Ricoh, 3.1V, voltage detector IC, marking TABxx, SOT-23-5:https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/792/r3118-ec-932631.pdfIn addition to a photo of "8130", it might help if you were able to at least identify its Vcc and ground pins, plus any other pins."BRV" does indeed appear to be a TPS61050DRCR:https://chinese.alibaba.com/product-detail/Provide-list-of-electronic-components-quotation-1600544733987.htmlhttps://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/H6e7e65f037a447acbb6cfe3063af4f1cx.pngFWIW, I suspect "AAF" may be a dual op amp, TLV2772CDGK.https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv2772.pdf

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 07:54:29 am
content: Thank you for identifying all those components!I think TABxx is indeed a R3118N311A.Thanks to the new information about those other ICs and after checking on the board, it turns out the "on" input pin of TPS22929D is connected to pin 1 of R3118N311A (through a 200 Ohms resistor).But, since R3118N311A is just a voltage detector with its sense pin (i.e. pin 5) connected to the battery positive terminal (through a 1 kOhm resistor), then it means the TPS22929D "digital switch" is supposed to be constantly on.So, this means the issue is not with these components, but somewhere else.And, given all other ICs we've already identified, unless IC "8130" turns out to actually be a power management chip, the only remaining explanation I can think of for the boot loop is a timing problem (or a FW issue).At which point I will probably call it a day and install a physical switch in place of the digital one (that will provide most, if not all, of the functionality of the entire device, although I'd need to find a way to route that physical switch outside of the case).But, first, let's see if we can ID this "8130" IC (please see below for a close-up).In terms of its pinout, all I could determine up to this point is that pins 5 and 6 are connected to GND.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 11:52:10 am
content: The stylised numbers make me think of STMicroelectronics, but I wouldn't exclude other possibilities.https://res.cloudinary.com/rsc/image/upload/b_rgb:FFFFFF,c_pad,dpr_1.0,f_auto,q_auto,w_700/c_pad,w_700/F8290627-01

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 12:29:38 pm
content: I think we may need more clues to identify the mystery IC. My searches for likely candidates have come up empty.At this point you need to consider some reverse engineering of the circuits to determine the power and control path from source to DC-DC converters. The “8130” may, or may not, be part of that path. I considered the possibility of a power sequencing IC and a power management IC, but it could just as easily be a TVS diode array for all I know. Without some reverse engineering work we are wandering in the dark and that is inefficient.Fraser

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 08:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: fzabkar on July 31, 2023, 11:52:10 amI also seemed to recall seeing this font/character style with a specific manufacturer, but couldn't remember which one.It does seem to match ST's style indeed.Quote from: Fraser on July 31, 2023, 12:29:38 pmI agree this would now require a more advanced troubleshooting to eventually determine the IC in question.However, I don't know how long this might take and, the longer this stays open, the more likely it is that I will break something else inside it and/or it will end up as a "to be looked at later" type of project (which, in most cases, means it will never be in a working state again).So, I've decided to just solder two wires in place of the digital switch, wires which I've pulled out through a whole I drilled into the case.I now intend to glue a small on-off switch to the outer case and solder the wires to that switch.A bit medieval style, but I'd be glad if it is functional.Thank you both for all the help!

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 08:42:45 pm
content: Identifying the Vcc pin shouldn't be too hard. Normally it would be bypassed with a small MLCC (C31 or C32 or both?).Alternatively, locate each of the inductors. They will be the reference points for the onboard power supplies. Then buzz the 8130 IC until you find a pin that connects to one of the inductors.BTW, the IC marked "NF4?" could be a dual LDO regulator. If so, then it may be powering the 8130 IC.R5323N016B, Ricoh, dual LDO regulator, 150mA, Vout1/Vout2=1.5V/2.8V, marking NFxx, SOT-23-6:https://www.1688eric.com/upload/pdf/2012-8-3/R5323X.pdf

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2023, 10:38:06 pm
content: Giosif,I totally understand what you are sayingThese units are not of huge value and you have to decide how much time you want to invest in repairing it. As you have a solution that works for you, it is a good result. I know what you mean about repair projects becoming open-ended and never getting re-assembled….. I have a few such thermal camera projects in various metal biscuit tins. They have been repaired and just need reassembly, but other tasks and priorities keep getting in the way. As the old saying goes….. out of sight, out of mind !I am pleased that you now have a working cameraFraser