Siglent SDS7000A 3, 4, 6 and 8 GHz 12 bit DSO's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 08:04:14 am
content: Released 15 Nov 20236 GHz model introduced 12 Nov 248 GHz models introduced 22 July 253, 4 or 6 GHz BW12-bit models.Low noise floor: ~220 μVrms at 4 GHz bandwidth15.6" touch display with mouse.20 GSa/s max sampling rate.500 Mpts/ch32 Mpts FFTCPU Intel Core i3-8100 or betterRAM 32 GB DDR4Hard Disk 250 GB SSD or betterOS LinuxSupports measurement of USB2.0, SATA1, DDR1/2/3 and other signals1Gpts Memory Depth Upgrade OptionOCXO option50 MHz FG option16ch MSO optionOptional decodesEye Diagram and Jitter Analysis OptionPower Analysis OptionFront panel2x USB 3.0 Host,Probe calibration signal: 1 kHz, 3 V square waveSide panel4x USB Host 3.1 Gen 1, 2x 1000M LAN (support VXI-11+SCPI, Telnet (port 5024)+SCPI, socket (port 5025) + SCPI programming, LXI, WebServer)1x DVI-D: up to 1920x1200 @ 60Hz, 1x DP 1.2: up to 4096x2304 @ 60Hz, 1x HDMI 1.4: up to4096x2160 @ 60HzMic input, Audio OutputRear panelUSB 2.0 Device (support USBTMC)External trigger input, EXT: ≤1.5 Vrms, EXT/5: ≤ 7.5VrmsAuxiliary output: including TRIG OUT (3.3 V LVCMOS), PASS/FAIL OUT (3.3 V TTL)Others: 10 MHz In, 10 MHz Outhttps://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds7000a-digital-storage-oscilloscope/https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds7000a-digital-storage-oscilloscope/Will also support a new series of Siglent 5 GHz active probes:SAP5000D series of active differential probes, which have a bandwidth of 5GHz, a rise time of 80ps, a differential input capacitance of 350fF, and an attenuation ratio of 10:1.https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/25_07_10/SDS7000A_Datasheet_EN03A.pdfPOI listSDS7000A discussion:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5824169/#msg5824169

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 09:22:14 am
content: As I was writing this same, I noticed that you had already done it. Of course -- you have a time zone advantage due to your location.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 09:42:58 am
content: Oh, finally a scope everyone can afford...Looks good.Screensize: Waverunner 9000 got 15.6" too and it´s soo huge...My favorite size is 12.1".Prices...Hmm.2Ghz 6000A will costs appx 11900€ incl. VAT, the 7000A won´t be cheaper.So it will be a nice to know that siglent could also offer pro-scopes.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 10:35:24 am
content: So, NeZha finally arrived?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 10:47:59 am
content: time for a new, more restricted, owner club ?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:32:48 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 30, 2022, 09:42:58 amMartin,Stay away from the light!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:41:19 am
content: Don't worry my friend, if a few more features come along for my current scope, I don't see a single reason to switch.Besides, if I seriously wanted to spend more than XYZ on a meter,otherswould have the men with the white jacket come for me.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:57:49 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 30, 2022, 11:41:19 amThank Godothersexist!

author: Kenneth Rosenstroem
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 01:18:04 pm
content: Some pictures here:http://www.utestek.com/product/1302.html

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 01:38:17 pm
content: Quote from: Kenneth Rosenstroem on December 30, 2022, 01:18:04 pmThey even made it Rigol colored! Sadly they will match the price of Rigol DS70504 20 GSa/s oscilloscope too (30k €).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 06:59:40 pm
content: Quote from: baldurn on December 30, 2022, 01:38:17 pmThat got me immediately ! Why Siglent would follow HPAK, LeCroy and Rigol with a dark color scheme IDK.QuoteIn case you hadn't noticed a few Siglent products when fully optioned are already nudging 30k in whatever currency.Put the new Siglent analyser and matching RF gen together and it's pushing 40k but still a good bit cheaper than one from HPAK.

author: danils
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:18:45 pm
content: I have a consideration, please don't misunderstand me.I currently own the SDS2104X HD I fell in love with (I sold my Keysight for this), I have a Siglent multimeter on my office bench, I have a Siglent power supply and I am ordering a Siglent function generator. So I am a fanand I consider them wonderful equipment for my daily duties that is testing LED power supplies.But...When it comes to top professionals or critical application, especially in the price tag I think this new Siglent scope will fall, I think we are forced to follow the trend and display a Keysight or Tek or Lecroy badge on the attached print screens. Like when I worked on audio I had to have an Audio Precision badge on my print screens despite there are great audio analysers from other brands too, that sometimes are even better than AP in my experience (R&S, Spectral Measurements (formerly Prism Audio), etc.).Now I think that some companies, large ones, think about Tesla testing their motor inverters or Honeywell testing avionics and so on, probably need to show a "top brand" badge on their papers.Not random that on my Siglent equipment calibration sheets the devices used for calibration are Agilent etc. lol.So I think it's quite risky for Siglent aiming at a top end niche were players that basically invented the oscilloscope dominate already. Let's suppose that a "big brand" oscope with the same specs costs twice the Siglent, I think big companies with large budget still have a "marketing" need to choose the big brands.Yet this new Siglent scope is surely out of budget for small companies and hobbyists.edit: maybe it can be a great resource for embargoed countries, USA cannot sell technology to

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:37:30 pm
content: Hi,I know exactly what you mean.But in my eyes, this is the logical next step for Siglent.Whether they will join the elite circle depends on several parameters.Quality, technical maturity, stable software and features that the professional competition does not offer at this price.And even all that is of no use if you can't convince customers to switch.In addition to the above-mentioned things, service is an absolute must.In the meantime, we also have Siglent scopes at work, calibrated externally and in use for customer acceptance tests.Otherwise, we have had LeCroy and Tektronix over the decades.But we've been surprised at how well the Siglents have done, and we won't be the only ones.AND:Unlike the other big brands, siglent still has the low cost division that benefits from the lessons learned in developing the big scopes not affordable to amateurs.Currently you can see it very well in the SDS2000X+ model.If the larger series experience an update, it will also get that, provided that the hardware makes it.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:42:51 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 30, 2022, 06:59:40 pmNo, no, no .. they made it Hantek colored!

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: danils on December 30, 2022, 11:18:45 pmThere are some well healed hobbyists around here that flaunt $30K scopes that do not remotely meet the specs quoted above. They might be a market. A small one, but a market. It may also appeal to companies that do not have to prove or divulge who makes their test equipment but want decent specs for a reasonable price. We'll have to see what that price is to beging with, but in the end you may be right. At least until Siglent make some decent on-roads into industry. That begs the question, is there room for another top tier brand at the table?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 12:32:11 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 30, 2022, 08:04:14 amIt would be it´s death here before it´s born, no joke.In this (expected) pricerange every scope is 12 bit or higher.

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 02:16:51 am
content: Quote from: danils on December 30, 2022, 11:18:45 pmIt may clearly be out of range in the typical HAM hobby budget but it fits well for startups and internal use within companies where cost still matters. I have experience founding a startup and let me tell you, the savings on that one instrument could easily be several years of rent for the office space or half a year of salary for the employee that is going to use it.All depending on that they are actually going to price it significantly cheaper (half price) of the competing big name brands. If they would try to be just a little cheaper, it might even be more expensive to lease due to worse resale value.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 04:16:29 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on December 30, 2022, 11:52:34 pmWhy wouldn't there be, just why ?Each brand has something the other doesn't offer and that's how it's always been and the only time that becomes a problem is when the money people chose equipment for the techs.Take a moment to properly consider the changes in this industry in the last 5 years let alone the last 10.Have the top brands really indicated to any of us they are up for the challenge from the east or have they sat on their chuffs and watch their grass get mown.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 05:17:05 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 31, 2022, 04:16:29 amOh Rob, you know as well as I do. You read the posts here. Some one asks for a good meter under $100 and within 10 posts there is someone suggesting they buy a Fluke 87V.Back when I first started out the answer was a Simpson 260 (which BTW is still made and about the same price as s Fluke 87V).You know I'm a dyed in the wool Siglent fan (even being a genuine greybeard) but I realize the nonsense that goes on, the same nonsense that makes people pay $199/ft. for magic speaker cable.People are stuck in self defeating ruts. "Muh daddy sayus buy a Tek Tutron'hicks so my's gona buy's a Tek.Okay, that might have gone a tad far, but you get the picture. Tek make good stuff (at least they used to .. ignoring the "3 series") for certain applications .. the same for HPAK and R&S, but it seems they have lost the connection to the grass roots.Some idiots still buy Harley Davison bikes, even though they are (endlessly) proven to be utter shite.We live in a world where there are 2 (count then) flat earth societies.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 06:29:55 am
content: This is truly one scope for the massesOk it is a PC with an acquisition card instead of being all integrated with an application processor. What does it bring to the table?UI slowing down a little less when multiple functions are activated?will it be able to run other applications alongside the main scope context?I thought other models (since the SDS5000X) all ran linux, was i wrong?which lecroy is going to be here in the west?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 06:34:24 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on December 31, 2022, 06:29:55 amNo you were not wrong.Consider it a plain statement from Siglent this PC based DSO does NOT run Windoze.Make of that what you will as YMMV.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 07:05:20 am
content: Waiting for someone here to "buy" an SDS7404A H12 from Amazon and spend two weeks testing every feature, and writing full reviews, and posting YouTube videos, before returning it two weeks later

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 09:07:31 am
content: Quote from: danils on December 30, 2022, 11:18:45 pmHighly intended of course to give some validity to the accuracy/quality of calibration.Actually that's a good thread topic, what brands of equipment are used for Siglent equipment factory calibration ?QuoteDo you imply the A brands have market dominance from inventing oscilloscopes ?Let me give you a little history lesson:Karl Ferdinand Braun invented the CRT oscilloscope as a physics curiosity in 1897....... and electromechanical plotting devices were around a few years earlier:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_oscilloscopeQuoteThey do but are slowly seeing the light.QuoteWhat industry and marketing experience has you offer such a statement ?Hobbyists certainly but there are some very clever small companies doing leading edge stuff the world over and they get to a point when they need high performance equipment at competitive pricing.QuoteWell of course, Siglent is already a worldwide brand and also not always badged as Siglent so even examining the Siglent website maps and 'How to Buy'/Authorized Partners lists doesn't reveal actual marketplace penetration.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 04:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: danils on December 30, 2022, 11:18:45 pmIn many cases true but - world is changing.Currently, some users of Siglent devices include, for example (bit old list) including also your named Tesla :(and of course lots of smaller companies)Nokia, Cisco, Ericsson, Samsung, LG, ZTE, Broadcom, Hytera, FiberHome.Tesla, BMW, Toyota, Siemens, BYD, Yaskawa, Desay SV automotive, Mitsubishi Electric, L.B.N.TexasInstruments, Intel, Linear, Broadcom, Microchip, Realtek, GE Imagination atwork, NXP, Allwinner, ETS-LindgrenMicrosoft, Google, Toyota, Apple, Sharp, Haier, Microchip, Dji, Skyworth, Asus.Harward University, Princeton University, University of Cambridge, Stanfor University, Massachusets Institute of Technology,Tsinghua University, Peking University, Zhejiang University, University of Science and Technology of China, Fudan University

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 11:33:02 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on January 01, 2023, 04:18:35 pmBut certainly not as an exclusive supplier, especially now that the U.S. is further restricting shipments to China of strategic electronic devices and this is not helping chinese brands to gain trust in high-tech companies in the west world.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 12:36:58 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 30, 2022, 09:42:58 amI'm holding out for 17 inches! Heck, that's not even so common in laptops anymore.QuoteWow! Far above my needs. What the world needs is a good 5¢ cigar... I mean, a good $500 attached oscilloscope. I'd much rather have a small unit I can put in my computer bag than a box that needs it's own bag on the airplane.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 12:41:34 am
content: Quote from: Kenneth Rosenstroem on December 30, 2022, 01:18:04 pmI can't quite make out that connector that looks like a DB9 or an HD15. I don't think it's three rows, so a serial port??? Why would there be a serial port? I guess that's a COTS motherboard, eh? So you get some dross with the bits you want.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 01:20:26 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on January 02, 2023, 12:41:34 amIt's a COM port, motherboard should be an old 1151 chinese market commercial mini-itx board, given the price category of the instrument it would have been better to adopt a more recent platform with a more powerful processor.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 01:32:36 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on January 02, 2023, 12:36:58 amWhy stop at 17 ?With:1x DVI-D: up to 1920x1200 @ 60Hz, 1x DP 1.2: up to 4096x2304 @ 60Hz, 1x HDMI 1.4: up to 4096x2160 @ 60Hzyou could go to three 60" or larger, maybe stand them all on end and let the video driver treat them as a single display......wonderful for conferences and seminars.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 02:29:09 am
content: Quote from: tautech on January 02, 2023, 01:32:36 amOr Mr. Magoo.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 10:33:04 am
content: Quote from: tautech on January 02, 2023, 01:32:36 amQuoteOddly enough, some computer makers have 15.3 inch screens and 16 inch screens, but are dropping the 17 inch screens. I can't see the use case for adding 0.7 inches to a computer screen.I need a new machine. My current one is not much over a year old, but it craps out and simply loses all power periodically. If I play with it a while, I can get it back up, but it's very reminiscent of running Windows 95, and it's kicking my PTSD into overdrive.I want a decent keyboard that still has functional arrow keys and the numeric keypad. The only 17 inch laptop Lenovo sells has a touch pad like a cell phone instead of a number pad. WTF???

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 02:14:40 pm
content: Screenshots of the chinese datasheet translated by deepL:

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 02:16:50 pm
content: Screenshots of the chinese datasheet translated by deepL:

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 02:18:37 pm
content: Screenshots of the chinese datasheet translated by deepL:

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 02:19:37 pm
content: Screenshots of the chinese datasheet translated by deepL:

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 02:37:07 pm
content: what if Siglent launched the base model at a hobbyist-friendly $3000 price point, with said hobbyist still able to turn onallthe options using a publicly available bit of python code? this may be sufficient to significantly disrupt the whole top end of the market. bear in mind that the actual parts cost per unit (ignoring R&D) may not be very high.perhaps itisintended to be Hantek black... a 'salute' to the top end of the market. will be interesting to see.cheers,rob :-)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 06:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on January 02, 2023, 12:36:58 amTo get an idea how big 15.4" is in real, I´ve placed three scopes with different screen sizes in a row.You don't really want to have 17"...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 07:39:28 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 02, 2023, 06:32:18 pmOh yes I do (thumps fist on table) and will need much much larger when the SDS6000L arrives soon.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 08:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 02, 2023, 06:32:18 pmThat was tongue in cheek. I want an attached oscilloscope to use with my 17 inch laptop.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 08:35:29 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on January 02, 2023, 08:23:42 pm4, 8 or up to 512 channels ?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds6000l-2ghz-12bit-8-ch-(china-only)/

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:00:18 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 02, 2023, 08:35:29 pm4 channels with 16 synchronized digital would be very nice. But I'm not moving to China to buy it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:12:06 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on January 02, 2023, 09:00:18 pmYou won't need to, predicted release to western markets was Q4 22 but that might run to CNY in a couple weeks, IDK.They should be released soon and I saw one in his private lab while video chatting to the NA sales manager a few days ago.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:27:33 pm
content: 8 bit for the west, again ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:35:54 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 02, 2023, 09:27:33 pmGood question !Sorry didn't ask.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:48:56 pm
content: Hopefully not 8 bit only.If Lecroy should be the reason, the two should talk again.To be honest, I played "back then" with the thoughts to buy the 6000 (No kidding, the HD I could buy ad hoc, for the 6000 I would have waited a bit and saved).But spending so much money and then still having 8bit, that was an absolute showstopper and I didn't want to switch to another brand.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 10:39:08 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 02, 2023, 09:48:56 pmWhy, in its price point SDS6000A is hard to beat, 12", 5 GSa/s oneachchannel, 500 Mpts mem depth and memory management tools like in your HD.That's why it can honestly state it's a 2 GHz DSO with all channels active.Bits vs BW is always going to be a choice which depends on needs.Is the 6kA HW between east and west models really different or is it just done SW ?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 10:56:09 pm
content: The first thing my colleagues do is to reduce the memory depth....It slows the system down - Nothing for unpatient users..QuoteHave we ever seen a teardown...AFAIK not.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 01:30:58 am
content: > If Lecroy should be the reason, the two should talk again.I thought Siglent was using LeCroy's 12 bit ADC in all these 12 bit scopes. If so, they cannot simply "talk again," because the whole point of the agreement from LeCroy's perspective was to monetize downmarket without hurting upmarket sales. Letting Siglent use LeCroy ADCs to compete in the West with LeCroy would be tantamount to LeCroy punching themselves in the face.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 04:56:38 pm
content: Dear Friends,what is your take on the SDS7000A vs R&S MXO4 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-picture-on-eevblog-of-the-new-rs-mxo4-series-oscilloscope-)/ ) ?I am very excited to see the SDS7000, assuming it will have a faster UI, since it is using a I3.Please share your opinion and EWAGs !Thank you all !luudee

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 10:48:56 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on January 06, 2023, 04:56:38 pmNew Siglent will be 4 GHz design with 20GS/s sampling by the look of it.. So vastly different class than MXO4..As for other features, it is not yet released so we don't know yet...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 11:04:59 pm
content: QuoteAnd with 4 cores and 3.6Ghz not the badest one.Before we bought the waverunner and the HDO6034A (both with i5 cpu), we got a hdo4000 (intel i3) on loan for two weeks.The scopes based on a pc platform are simply in a different league in terms of overall performance.I work with the HDO6034A almost every day and everything is so smooth, so fast, it has 8(!) math channels, until now I had 4 of them running at the same time and nothing has changed in speed, just great.Last weekend at home on my HD I had 2(....) math channels active at the same time (both with FFT) and a few readings in the display.Well...You get what you paid for, even if it wasn't exactly little.(Not to mention the unspeakable slowdown of the entire system when the Bode Plot is active).But such comparisons bring you back down to earth when you think spending more money isn't necessary.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 07:40:05 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 02, 2023, 10:56:09 pmIt also allows for more history waveformsi do it for both reasons. scope set at 12.5MPts, unless ineedthe samplerate at lower timebases

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 07:59:39 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on January 07, 2023, 07:40:05 amSDS5000X right Jack ?Have you not installed recent firmware that allows setting of afixedsample rate ?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 12:40:27 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 07, 2023, 07:59:39 amYes. I did, but i don't care for the function. I've always been content in how the scope operated out of the box and i'm used to it. I tried the other memory management modes but failed to find a scenario in which either would be an advantage over the Max Memory we all know and love (or a big enough advantage that i bother going through the menu to find the optimal setting from time to time)

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 04:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on January 07, 2023, 12:40:27 pmYour initial statement was very clear. You stick to 12.5 Mpts memory except when youreallyneed longer captures = slow timebase settings where the samplerate drops below your requirement for the acquisition bandwidth. So what you want issufficientsamplerate rather thanconstantsamplerate - the latter is only useful in some very special cases, e.g. where the scope bandwidth depends on the samplerate in a less familiar way, such as in ERES mode.That's what generally is considered best practice, as 10-14 Mpts is some magic region for all scopes based on that current Zync platform...

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on January 07, 2023, 04:32:55 pmthe ERES hint gave me an idea, i'm still waiting for digital filters on the math (or on the input) channels, probably i can combine fixed sampling with ERES so i can achieve a low pass filter i can controlDid not know of this magic region but yes, 12.5Mpts proved to be a good compromize between enough samples (helps with SENT/CAN decoders at the standard frequencies) and UI Speed

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:14:41 pm
content: QuoteYou got a 5000X, right ?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:50:43 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on January 07, 2023, 12:40:27 pm

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:09:31 pm
content: Argh, good morning...OK, so I guess filters will come with one of the next firmware updates(memory management as a kind of prerequisite has it already).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on January 07, 2023, 12:40:27 pmMe too."Growing up" with Lecroy scopes (93XX, waverunner LT, wavesurfer, waverunner 9000, HDO) I had never missed anything in that direction.So the discussion about the memory was new to me when I entered the forum here.Should I use the new filter function(on my 2000HD), this could change, but even then I don't need to worry, because the scope takes care of that for me - Even if it first asks whether it should change...(With my two private Rigol Scopes Auto-Memory was the default setting, that will have its reasons).

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 05:39:11 am
content: Inside SDS7000AThink about it....On December 28, 2022, Siglent released two new products: SDS7000A digital oscilloscope and SFA8001 front-end amplifier chip.SDS7000A is the first 4GHz bandwidth, 12-bit high-resolution digital oscilloscope in China, which raises the domestic high-resolution oscilloscope to a new height and fills the domestic gap in related fields! SFA8001 is the first self-developed oscilloscope front-end amplifier chip with a bandwidth of 8GHz released in China! The chip laid a solid foundation for the research and development of Siglent's 8GHz and subsequent higher bandwidth oscilloscopes.It is expected that in the near future, a new generation of Siglent digital oscilloscope equipped with self-developed chips will meet with you. At the same time, the development of SFA8001 has also accumulated experience in the development of 16GHz bandwidth amplifier chips.Siglent's first self-developed chip SFA8001Amplifier chip: the core of the analog front-end circuit The three core chips inside the digital oscilloscope are: the front-end amplifier chip,the ADC chip and the digital signal processing chip. Each of these three chips has its own role and has a direct impact on the performance of the oscilloscope.As the first self-developed oscilloscope front-end amplifier dedicated chip of Siglent, SFA8001 has a high bandwidth of 8GHz and a low noise density of 1.9nV/√Hz, which can help oscilloscopes observe faster and smaller signals.Self-developed chips: the only way to develop localizationSiglent's chip self-research road is rooted in product design needs, rather than the "muscle show" of corporate strength.High-bandwidth front-end amplifier chips are difficult to directly implement through board-level circuits, and chipization is an inevitable trend. As one of the three core chips of oscilloscopes, the front-end amplifier chip is different from the ADC chip and the digital signal processing chip, and its application area is narrow and the design requirements are high, so it is difficult to purchase directly in the market.Not only that, as a dedicated chip, the front-end amplifier chip often needs to be optimized according to the actual oscilloscope design when designing the circuit to better meet the product performance. Therefore, in the field of high-end oscilloscopes, analog front-end chips often exist in the form of self-developed by each oscilloscope manufacturer.After that the next step is 16GHz...and so on...The Emperor is far and the sky is high...run your own paths in freedom and fly higher...Siglent, stock code: 688112.SH, Shanghai Stock Exchange (SSE).

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 04:06:28 am
content: Any pricing info yet ?luudee

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 11:53:24 pm
content: Hi Rob,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/msg4708985/#msg4708985To stop offtopic there...In my opinion, the gap between the 2000X HD and the 7000A is too wide in terms of offering 12bit scopes for the western market.I strongly expect the 7000A to cost at least 10000, it is a different league where it will play together with the 12 bit scopes from lecroy and Tek.There is nothing in between the two extremes.The 2000X HD is very good, I need to know that for various reasons.But if you want a bigger screen, for example, or more math channels, as well as increased general performance, but don't want to drop back to 8 bit, you won't find it at Siglent.I don't know if it's smart to leave the field to other brands in the western market.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2023, 11:48:33 pm
content: Listed on the chinese website:https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/100,000,000 Wfm/s ??

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 12:12:38 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 23, 2023, 11:48:33 pmHello,and "Low noise floor: only 4 μVrms at 220 GHz bandwidth"I think they mean 220 μVrms at 4 GHzBest regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 12:14:41 am
content: You´re right, it must be a failure in the description.But apart from that, nice scope..And only siglent knows why they´re offering two vertical resolution models.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 12:31:39 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 24, 2023, 12:14:41 amHello,yes very nice scope and I think they mean 220 μVrms at 4 GHz.Cleverscope CS328A even had three different resolutions on offer:"CS328A 4M Samples, 10 bit sampler, 8 digital inputs, USB I/OThe CS328 can be upgraded to 8M memory and 12 or 14 bit dual channel sampler, plus signal generator."Red Pitaya was also once available with 10 or 14 bitBest regardsegonotto

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 12:42:58 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 23, 2023, 11:48:33 pmMe thinks you need use a different translator:main featuresBandwidth: 4GHz, 3GHz, 2GHzMemory depth: up to 1Gpts/channelVertical resolution: 12-bit /10-bitReal-time sampling rate: up to 20 GSa/sWaveform capture rate: up to1 million frames per secondLow noise floor: as low as220 μVrms at 4 GHz bandwidth

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 06:08:40 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 24, 2023, 12:14:41 amI know there is peoples who do not think money because from wall you can get more but there is still peoples and companies who may think also money...But still we can see one single bit more do not double price but it doubles resolution.And even more, here we get 2 bits more and we get quadruple resolution with same frequency bandwidth and samplerate.It is totally different case if we reduce samplerate (and BW) when we rise resolution. This is why.Not because they just want to be uncomfortable.Of course, everyone also understands how the market works, as well as why pay more if you don't need more.12 bit, SDS6204 H12 Pro 2 GHz, ¥229,880 Normal model10 bit, SDS6204 H10 Pro 2 GHz, ¥139,880 Economy modelThe same realities are affecting the model SDS7kA as well.and this 100 xxxx/s need translates as 100*10000 and all who understand chinese numbering system and these "words" know it. But some translators perhaps not. When chinese say something what heards somehow as "millon" it is 10k (10000) and many times example prices are told in "millons" example in house markets. It is 10k not 1M.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 06:14:20 am
content: QuoteMicrosoft Edge translating...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 06:51:31 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 24, 2023, 06:14:20 amI find this very useful to decypher info from newly discovered products:https://translate.google.com/You can Copy/Paste can't you ?

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 10:57:28 am
content: I'd be up for trying the 4ghz 12 bit models, have some budget left over after the recent home lab 4Ghz Wavepro HD that would be the model to go head to head with.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 04:25:35 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on February 24, 2023, 06:08:40 amThe prices...Then I don´t want to know the ones for the 7000..And then there is the 8 bit model here fore really less money than the 10 bit "Economy model" (appx 9980€ for the 2Ghz)It's hard to believe that all three ADCs are pin-compatible with each other, so they would have to have different layouts.Apart from this, for 19000€ or 32000€ I could get a state of the art scope from lecroy

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 04:40:39 pm
content: Stupid question from a 200 Mhz hobbyist... What are you folks doing that requires 7-8 Ghz bandwidths? Can you give an example of where you need that level of gear?I imagine that just setting up a probing solution at those frequencies is an art unto itself.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 05:42:29 pm
content: Just for example:Quotehttps://download.tek.com/datasheet/DDR3-and-LPDDR3-Measurement-and-Analysis-Software-on-6-Series-MSO-Datasheet-55W614702.pdf

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 06:40:58 pm
content: Ethernet 1000base etc/DDR/TDR and the dual Spectrum II app is a nice as well SMPS testing with the DL-ISO Probe, FPGA' rail noise plus some emc immumity testing. The Waverunner HD is actually great for audio and power supply testing 200Mhz is really all you need for that.I'm up for doing a back to back on the bigger BW Siglent 7000, haven't had a scope shoot out in a while, trying to accquire one of the new R&S 12 bits units. Though a few of the chaps I know with them have reported a few bugs that need ironing out shall we say, but are complimentry other wiseWe have been that busy I haven't even unboxed the new Wavepro HD yet, will rectify that this weekend

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2023, 10:57:08 pm
content: Hi,Pushing this thread...Is there any news about the progress of the SDS7000A ?I am very curious about the targeted prices for it.We had paid close to 14000€ in 2019 for a Lecroy HDO6034A (intel i5 cpu, 16GB DDR4 RAM, Windows 10), 12 bit native resolution and decoder/analyzer options....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 05:45:15 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 22, 2023, 10:57:08 pmMeans nothing unless we know the model CPU.Looking up the one stated to be used in SDS7000A gives a CPU Benchmark of 6162.https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-8100+%40+3.60GHz&id=3103

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2023, 10:40:53 pm
content: QuoteRob....Seriously ?Theminimum configurationin lecroy pc-based scopes is a i5 4 core cpu with 3.2Ghz, except the hdo4000 series which got the lower i3 class onboard.Btw, it is interesting that siglent is using a 6 year old cpu in their current scope under development - chances are that this cpu will be obsolete before the scope is released.But if they have bought enough of them...Either way, it will definitely be a "pro" scope, at "pro" prices.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2023, 12:40:14 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 23, 2023, 10:40:53 pmThis ^ you did not say however it means little unless we know the exact model CPU used so we can benchmark it.I run i3, i5 and i7 CPU's in benchtops that unless they are heavily loaded you cannot spot the differences in performance as they all boot W10 from a SSD. The best benchmark of which is a i7 in a tiny mini PC, a ASROCK Jupiter however it runs M.2 SSD, faster than any SATA memory.I suspect a modern DSO design running a multiple core CPU is unlikely to suffer much in they way of performance hits running any of the above CPU's. IMO reliability, CPU heat generated and fan noise is of greater concern.I look forward to seeing the developers choice of HW in action.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 07:35:34 am
content: Shahriar has a quick peek at this model at IEEE Microwave Symposium 2023.https://youtu.be/JmB1Exhz1HQ?t=1375

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 09:22:05 pm
content: I'm really curious to see how much it will end up costing.I came to Siglent "back then" because I wanted to have good quality at an affordable price - and I can't afford a Lecroy.For me it was a stroke of luck with the SDS touchscreen scopes, they do not have to hide, in total I consider them the best in their respective price range.To date though, none of them come close to a lecroy PC based scope.Which is not tragic, because they cost quite a bit more.If Siglent then calls up the same prices as a Lecroy would cost, then there must already be weighty advantages that one then does not take the "original".And I don't even mean the bandwidth.As I said, I am curious.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2023, 10:46:50 pm
content: Backside of the beast, taken from the manual:https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS7000A_UserManual_CN01A.pdfAt least three fans...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2023, 12:06:06 am
content: Well, that's clearly PC based. Check out the connections panel...

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2023, 08:06:06 am
content: I will be testing one out Vs one of the Wavepro HD's we have so I report back on that in the not to distant future.The Wavepro HD also have three deep fans inside the unit.Cost wise my feelings are starting about £15-£17k

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2023, 08:41:25 am
content: For the H10 Version I could believe this.For the H12 Version......12 Bit and still (?) 20GSa/s, I think it will start with a "2" as the first number.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 02:31:48 am
content: Release is just some 2 weeks away......Only 3 and 4 GHz models will be available to the west.Specs:

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 09:38:48 pm
content: 12 Bit and 20GSa/s...This is a beast.Any guesses about the "entry-price" ?My guess: 15k€ minimum without VAT.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:12:22 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 06, 2023, 09:38:48 pmSighound36 was closer....for the 12 bit 3 GHz model....let's say a little under $20k.We don't have to wait long now.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:21:29 pm
content: QuoteYepp, makes more sense.I'll never be able to afford it, but I'm pleased for siglent that they can offer something like this.No one can say anymore that they are not one of the "A-brands".

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:35:29 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 06, 2023, 10:21:29 pm12 bit, new Siglent acquisition system, 1M WFPS and 1 GB mem option is a lot to deliver at cheaper pricing.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:41:03 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 06, 2023, 10:35:29 pmThat is not even the biggest thing. Take a look at ever expanding suite of Analysis and Compliance test packages. That is what so far was exclusive to big brands. High end scopes are not only about big BW. It is about analysis packages and capability.And there is the big leap happening..

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:44:24 pm
content: Yes, I picked all options out yesterday from new pricelist:SDS7000A-FGSDS7000A-16LASDS7000A-PASDS7000A-EJ Eye Diagram/Jitter analysisSDS7000A- I2SSDS7000A-1553BSDS7000A- FlexRaySDS7000A-CANFDSDS7000A-SENTSDS7000A-ARINCSDS7000A-ManchSDS7000A-USB2SDS7000A-CT-USB2 USB Compliance testSDS7000A-CT-100Base-T 100Base-TX compliance testSDS7000A-CT-1000Base-TSDS7000A-CT-100Base-T1SDS7000A-CT-1000Base-T1SDS7000A-1GPTS 1 Gpts mem depth

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 10:49:47 pm
content: Except the memdepth, this is appx on lecroy-level, nice.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 03:29:53 am
content: @Rob,do you know if SDS7000A-1GPTS is a SW only upgrade, or includes HW as well ?Thank you !Best Regards,rudi

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 03:44:37 am
content: Quote from: luudee on November 07, 2023, 03:29:53 amSW option. Not cheap.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 07:19:52 am
content: OP updated with English datasheet and better image.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 06:38:35 pm
content: I noticed it earlier on the Batronix site by complete coincidence:So you don't see anything when you go to the page with the Siglent products, but if you happen to stop with the mouse pointer and a dropdown tab opens....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 07:49:30 pm
content: Yes, SDS7000A is product #71:https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=71

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 02:11:23 am
content: Released today and links added to the OP.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 07:13:09 am
content: https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS7304A-H12.htmlNot too expensive...

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 11:23:49 am
content: Here is a nice picture I took today at Productronica in Munich.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 12:17:21 pm
content: 15.6" is already pretty huge, but in the meantime I have a bigger desk...No, such a (price) class will remain a private dream.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 03:45:30 pm
content: Is there any known reason,as LeCroy with the RIS feature, as Siglent do not have this feature in any DSO gear?To purchase such Silgent, any other as ROI counts (Support behavior, SW Update rate as bug fixing, the Country and its Po.... behavior...)as for that money, spent value as for World TrustingHp

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 04:11:31 pm
content: I've said this before, with Lecroy a short email is enough and it doesn't take long, then an engineer calls who has also put the same device on the table and then it starts.(Of course they don't do that with a Wavesurfer 3000 or even smaller)They also have to offer this support if they want to play at the top.But it could also be that this is the case, as I only know the small devices up to the HD from them.

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 04:25:16 pm
content: Regarding service: you may have noticed that there are two classes of instruments: the X-series, where price/performance ratio is minimized, and the A-series, which is meant for the professional market. The latter also has a different level of support.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 04:34:05 pm
content: What I really would like to know, how does the SDS7000 compare to the MXO5I am ready for an upgrade, but need help deciding ...Thanks !!!rudi

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 05:01:01 pm
content: Quote from: Performa01 on November 16, 2023, 04:25:16 pmI can well imagine that.@Rudi:In such price ranges, there must be a way to be able to view/test the respective products beforehand.Lecroy also lent us an HDO for about 3 weeks.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 03:29:08 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 16, 2023, 05:01:01 pmHi Martin,yes R&S I could probably get an eval unit. But Siglent rep in Thailand is useless:Their idea of customer service is, pay 130% of the listed purchase price upfront,wait 3 months for delivery. It's a typical Asian brain-dead attitude. And they havezero stock of any higher end scopes.The R&S rep is fantastic on the other hand !If I want the SDS7000 I have to import it myself. Most likely buy it directly fromSiglent China.Best Regards,rudi

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 03:49:11 am
content: Quote from: luudee on November 16, 2023, 04:34:05 pmBuy both, and send me the one you don't like. 😉

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 10:35:16 am
content: Quote from: luudee on November 17, 2023, 03:29:08 amSo you would like help with compiling a table comparison of basic data?First, these two scopes are not for the exactly the same market.-SDSD7000A - 4GHz BW 20/10 GS/s-MXO5 - 2GHz BW 5/2,5 GS/s-SDSD7000A - 4 ch-MXO5 - 4/8 chMXO5 is scope that is optimised for user experience (fast refresh rates on scope and FFT), big screen and all of that.It does not have any advanced analytical capabilities at this moment above SDS6000A. Actually SDS6000A has eye diagram that MXO5 does not have (at least at the moment).It is not high end advanced analysis scope, but rather "luxury version" of (at this moment) pretty basic scope. It is basically R&S RTA4000 on steroids. More memory, bigger screen, faster processing, but no additional capabilities.Don't get me wrong. This is not critique.There is a market for what is "better than basic" scopes but with large screen, and fancy user experience.If you look at MSO5 brochure, it is obvious they are targeting electric power, automotive, embedded and such market. But in style, with big screen, window customizations and so on. Lots of analog channels, decodes etc...I think it will be very good scope for that if you can bear the price.But apart from 12 bit, bigger screen, and max 8 channels, even SDS6000A (Not SDS7000A !!) has more analytic capabilities. And SDS6000A has 5GS/s at all time, so it is a 2GHz scope propper. MXO5 cannot achieve 2 GHz BW with all channels on.Enter SDS7000A. 4GHz BW. 20/10 GS/s. 12 bit. PC platform. They also claim much faster trigger rate than ever before, up to 1M Wfms/s. ERES is equivalent of R&S Hires mode. 3GHz SDS7000A claims similar noise floor at 5mV/div to 2GHz MXO5, which means SDS7000 is very low noise for it's BW. Several low speed decodes free. 32 Mpts FFT.Compliance tests for USB2.0, 100Base-TX, 100Base-T1, 1000Base-T1 for now. SignalScan, Eye/Jitter Analysis.It is obvious that it scope for faster signals, geared more towards digital designer.. But still being 12 bit, it is excellent for fast analog too...It is a scope that is tier above MXO5 in capabilities.It was just released so info is still scarce. There are lots of features to be introduced with time too.Conclusion? These are basically different type of scopes.R&S MXO5 is made to be very "fancy" analytically simpler scope with 8 ch emphasizing "user experience" above all.SDS7000 is Siglent's new powerhorse. It's class is 4GHz 12 bit scopes similar to LeCroy.....For the list price of 500MHz MXO5 you can get SDS7000A 4GHz..Which one do you need?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 10:53:42 am
content: QuoteMade my day

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 11:36:38 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 17, 2023, 10:35:16 amThank you so much for your analysis, 2N3055.I always look forward to your posts !Kind Regards,rudi

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 11:47:52 am
content: Quote from: luudee on November 17, 2023, 11:36:38 amRudi,thank you for the kind words.My pleasure if it was helpful..Best,Sinisa

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 07:06:48 pm
content: Had an update on UK pricing today the 3Ghz is going to around £17K and the 4Ghz in the 22K markGet to play with one in mid December, looking forward to it

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 10:25:04 pm
content: Lecroy Wavepro 404HD...4Ghz bandwith, 20GSa/s/100Mpts upt to 5Gpts.The SDS7000A can be classified in roughly this class.And from this point of view, the two Siglents are a bargain.Really great from siglent.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 04:58:01 am
content: Starting at only $28,500.00 CAD. Hmm, maybe I should buy two!Actually, that's a bargain for the specs. Game changer for sure.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 07:52:54 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 17, 2023, 10:25:04 pmIMHO, just compare the given internal reference accuracy and soon you will understand about the possible Jitter figures...what gear to be trusted for any professionals.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 07:59:05 am
content: Quote from: hpw on November 29, 2023, 07:52:54 amSomeone is not doing their homework !Optional internal reference:https://siglentna.com/product/10m_ocxo_l/

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 08:46:27 am
content: Quote from: hpw on November 29, 2023, 07:52:54 amWhat jitter?Scope timebase jitter?Sample jitter?Trigger jitter?Characteristics of Jitter/Eye measurement package?I honestly don't understand what you are saying.And the last sentence I cannot understand if it is an insult or question.Let's compare:SDS7000:Standard (TCXO): ±2 ppm initial (0~50℃); ±0.5 ppm 1st year aging; ±3 ppm 20-year agingOptional (OCXO)：±100 ppb initial (25℃)；±1 ppb over temperature (0~50℃)；±50 ppb 1st year agingR&S MSO5 datasheet:Timebase accuracy after delivery/calibration, at +23 °C ±0.2 ppmduring calibration interval ±1 ppmI would say few things in this comparison. Siglent specification is more detailed (profesional ?).R&S has high initial accuracy than SDS7000 with TCXO but worse 1 years aging and no long term specification.SDS7000 equipped with OCXO is superior in all 3 paramaters.No manufacturer specified phase noise/clock jitter of internal oscillator. Can't compare it. I will refrain of hand waving.

author: J_in_MN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 29, 2023, 08:03:06 pm
content: A video from Siglent that talks a little about the design decisions and differentiation compared to competitors.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 08:15:40 am
content: Well, well,I do not get any more blamed by any OXCO, before you measured it or tear down what crap you have!In addition the final performance counts and the possible measurements as RIS or similar required.At first, IMHO the base oscillator counts (any different as seen on the old LeCroy WM8xxx or SD6xxx series).So as Siglent & Rigol are new on that Jitter Tools, a real tear down & compare with a reference would show up how the really performs.Using various DSO as from Teledyne, Keysight, R&S, Siglent & Rigols & etc. The Jitter Tools setup is also not a easy task.Its like a fast pulse, as real 30ps Rise time and lower DSO brands will show up false values.Attached Teledyne Wavepro HD given figures as for me a better reference.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 11:57:03 pm
content: Being a WaveprovHD owner I well comparing 4Ghz 7000 Siglent shortlyI expect it to perform very well i may even purchase one when the Wavemaster HD arrivesThe R&S MX05 is notb being this league its a well engineered and specifically designed scope for a different sector of the marketThe MX05 is basically two 04's in one box with another 500Mhz on top its analysis tools are basic at best currently it's also 5GS/s not 20GS/s it certainly has its place no question.But we are comparing apples to oranges imhoThe internal claimed jitter on the Wavepro hd is 60pS with its internal clocks.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 06:30:37 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on November 30, 2023, 11:57:03 pmIt is60fs NOT 60ps, otherwise 20ps time scale would be unreadable...The other question rises about the claimed 60fs RMS and it's PN figures. I expect here a 10MHz internal oscillator.Hp

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 04:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: hpw on December 01, 2023, 06:30:37 amYou are quite correct HP, I should have spotted that schoolboy error, in my defence I was using the pad in the small hours of the morning!The Wavepro HD/Signal genny/RTA are also slaved to the lab's a 13.2fS jitter reference 10Mhz clock which is -123dbm @ 1Hz no distribution box just eight outputs from the clock direct. Even the industry standard FSWP doesn't have that sort of phase noise (or lack of it)However the Siglent 7000's base line spec I don't know but I'm sure some one will enlighten me, the 7000 is due here in the UK before Christmas so I will be spending some time with one very soon.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 05:40:08 pm
content: >> 10Mhz clock which is -123dbm @ 1Hz no distributionYes, I have also such Sine based 50E OXCO as 120dBc @ 1Hz. IMHO other short time metrics important.May test all individual inputs, as all should show up equal behavior Jitter values & graphs.My SDA6xxx do show any different Histograms>> However the Siglent 7000's base line spec I don't know...Yes, very very pure ... as nothing of the Jitter KitHp

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 07:08:23 pm
content: QuoteOh yes....

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:13:15 am
content: HwpThe reference clock is a square wave form, rather than a sine wave. I performed some indepth jitter & eye analysis on the unit a while back see below.MartinIf the 7000 performs as expected I shall be purchasing one, as one of the chaps that works with keeps 'borrowing' my Wavepro HD

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 11:50:01 am
content: May I ask why a scope would need a mic input and an audio output ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 01:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: pope on December 02, 2023, 11:50:01 amHave you worked that out yet ?This DSO is PC based and it is normal to have audio capabilities on a PC main board.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 03:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 02, 2023, 01:15:43 pmIt is normal indeed. What I'm asking though is in which scenario an o'scope would need an audio I/O.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 04:18:39 pm
content: You can't get a mainboard without these connectors.They are simply there and are not used.

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 04:43:04 pm
content: Quote from: pope on December 02, 2023, 03:59:55 pmThere are applications imaginable.A microphone could be used for audio notes accompanying screenshots for documentation purposes or even voice control for the instrument.Headphones on the other hand can be used with each spectrum analyzer that has demodulation capabilities.Maybe we'll see some of the above features in the future...

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 05:55:41 pm
content: @Sighound36Very good ... a starting point for compare>> The reference clock is a square wave formAlso 50E load enabled? And may tell what brand do you use?Does SE-120 means WavePro HDO404 HD ??>> SE-120 wavepro jitter kitDo you get equal Histogram on each channels as Ch2, Ch3, Ch4 ??>> SE-120 wavepro resjit histogramMay have to check its a part of the new SDA III or JitKitAs Teledyne JitterKit Paper, recommended to use 10 Wave Cycles ... and you use may 200 Cycles: Any reason for this?Or do you have your own guidelinesHp

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2023, 08:25:14 pm
content: HpYes 50Ohm impedance which is really essential for square waveforms where as sinewave it's much, much less critical imho.I used full SDA linq with the new 10.5 FW and it's very very close on all channels. The jitkit is just a basic look but an accurate one in fairness.In the new year the jitkit will be superceded by Clock xpert which will separate certain aspects of the SDA which will concentrate more on higher spec pcie/usb4/6G/ high speed serial data formats.This I suspect is aimed at the new Wavemaster HDClock expert will include indepth eye analysis full jitter suite plus a new phase noise section incorporated.I also have a Holzworth phase noise analyser and a UXA 50Ghz unit with phase noise app. So I have that aspect of measurement covered I feel. Although Aaronia have some interesting products in the offing as well next year.The label SE-120 refers to the clock's model numberLecroys whitepapers are guidelines and each user I feel will adapt the settings for their own applications.Our UK Lecroy reps are always on the lookout for tips and tricks to improve measurement ways and to reduce all operator error and refining the processes. Its a two way street.I find the eye view & dual spectrum analyser option used in conjuction with a couple of RP4060 rail probes to view the clocks supplies rf noise sitting on the rails. On top of that a RTA with near field probes looking at clock radiated rf and board layouts can tell you a great deal inho

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 04:18:55 am
content: FYISiglent offer a SDS7000A product release promotion of free option licenses until June 30 2024.https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-78.htmlhttps://siglentna.com/news-article/siglent-sds7000a-introduction-promotion/https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/siglent-sds7000a-introduction-promotion/Option DescriptionSDS7000A-FG 50 MHz built-in function generatorSDS7000A-16LA MSO function (software), use with SPL2016 probeSDS7000A-PA Power Analysis: Power Quality, Current Harmonics, Inrush Current, Switching Loss, Slew Rate, Modulation, Output Ripple, Turn On/Off, Transient Response, PSRR, EfficiencySDS7000A-I2S I2S trigger & decodeSDS7000A-1553B MIL-STD-1553B trigger & decodeSDS7000A-FlexRay FlexRay trigger & decodeSDS7000A-CANFD CAN FD trigger & decodeSDS7000A-SENT SENT trigger & decodeSDS7000A-Manch Manchester decodeSDS7000A-ARINC ARINC429 trigger & decode (software)SDS7000A-USB2 USB 2.0 decode (software)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 02:01:54 pm
content: QuotePossibly misinformation, because Batronix has had the bundle since the beginning:https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7304A-H12.html

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 06:00:55 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 13, 2023, 02:01:54 pmYours.The promo is available in all regions.......yes I checked all 3 Siglent websites.Additional links added above.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 06:14:31 pm
content: When following your link, it is clear readable that is only for the mentioned regions.They should correct this.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 12:10:05 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 02, 2023, 01:15:43 pmInteresting but not surprising that they switched from ARM to Intel core i5 and a standard motherboard. Would make development way easier, and cost minimisation really isn't a factor at this high end price point.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 01:07:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 14, 2023, 12:10:05 amMight as well pay $50 for a motherboard if they're going to charge over $20,000 for the scope. 😉

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 03:04:34 pm
content: Has anyone tried hacking these yet to see if it can play Duke Nukem 3D ??

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 03:11:10 pm
content: Come on, Siglent are designed with hackability built in on all of their products those 7000 scopes will take a little longer to come to fruition as your average EEV Blog member isn't going to shell out on one for a hackaday project or maybe I'm wrong

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:09:03 pm
content: What would interest me is whether there could be more 12 bit models on the global market.The Chinese have:-800X HD-1000X HD-2000X HD-3000X HD-6000 Pro H10/H12-7000 A"We" have:-2000X HD- 7000AThat's a bit meager...While the 12-bit Siglent is represented in almost all price ranges on the Asian market, there is a huge gap between the 2000X HD and 7000A on the global market.Which other manufacturers are filling, such as R&S MXO4.I am happy with my 2504 X HD, but if I wanted "more" I would have to change brands, which I would find a shame.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:23:45 pm
content: That probably has to do with Lecroy not wanting to have their share of the 12 bit market saturated. Problem with the cooperation between Siglent and Lecroy is that much what Lecroy tells to Siglent only applies to the market Lecroy is serving themselves. Keysight, Tektronix and R&S make oscilloscopes with a different phylosophy behind them so each fill different niches with the strong points of their devices.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:25:04 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 14, 2023, 10:09:03 pmFor now.2024 will be very different.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:43:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2023, 10:23:45 pmKeysight doesn't even have any affordable 12-bit models, you can get them for several 10000€.Tektronix is too expensive for what it offers, R&S is a ray of hope.If you want something good from Lecroy, the minimum price is around €15,000.In this respect, I'm a little surprised that Siglent is "allowed" to offer such a caliber as the 7000A here.Or that the 2000X HD was allowed to come out here.The obvious agreement is probably being softened somewhat.QuoteI'll only believe it when I see it.The only thing Siglent EU has admitted so far is that an entry-level 12-bit scope will be released in the first quarter.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:53:15 pm
content: Martin said:If you want something good from Lecroy, the minimum price is around €15,000.In this respect, I'm a little surprised that Siglent is "allowed" to offer such a caliber as the 7000A here.Or that the 2000X HD was allowed to come out here.The obvious agreement is probably being softened somewhat.Think again all !Refresh what you know and think from the info in post #60 !https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg4642900/#msg4642900

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:57:19 pm
content: QuoteDid it.Now.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 11:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on December 14, 2023, 10:57:19 pmExplains lots, don’t it.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 11:23:52 pm
content: Yep, everything is clear now, let´s wait and see.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 01:08:25 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 14, 2023, 10:53:15 pmI wonder what the unit cost is of that 8GHz front end ASIC compared to say Rigol's 800MHz ASIC?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 03:32:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 15, 2023, 01:08:25 amDoes it matter ?3 new 12bit models will soon come and IMO this new ASIC has given Siglent some leverage in the 12bit ADC market to get pricing down.This is evident with reduced SDS2000X HD cost and if the proposed cost of the 2 GSa/s SDS800X HD is to believed then the world is a changing……and rapidly.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 01:08:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 15, 2023, 03:32:28 amI find that pricing taking effect in EU hard to believe TBH. If that's the case it will be a game-changer indeed, as that kind of capability is missing even from scopes 5x the price.

author: points2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 02:56:42 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 15, 2023, 03:32:28 amHi tautech,3 new 12b models !? Oulala !Do you mean some 12bits versions of the SDS5000 & SDS6000 series ?I plan to replace my SDS2104Plus(converted to 2504Xplus), I would need something like a SDS6204A (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS6204A.html).If I understand correctly what you mean, it's a bad idea to buy a SDS6000 for Christmas, isn't it ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 03:43:22 am
content: Quote from: points2 on December 20, 2023, 02:56:42 amWestern SDS6000A are officially only 8bit however they do offer additional ERES bits beyond what other 8bit DSOs do.Forecast 12bit releases for 2024SDS800X HDSDS1000X HDSDS3000X HDThere’s limited info about all these on the forum.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2024, 11:49:38 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on December 02, 2023, 11:13:15 amSo any upcoming updates on this SDS7000A gear??Hp

author: Ulrich.G
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2024, 10:40:11 am
content: Quote from: hpw on January 05, 2024, 11:49:38 amIn the meantime there is an 8Ghz bandwidth model on the Chinese webside, when did that happen?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2024, 10:53:29 am
content: Quote from: Ulrich.G on January 23, 2024, 10:40:11 amIn the meantime ?Datasheet publishing date is 23.Jan.24.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 06:55:24 pm
content: With the help of TautechIn North America / Canada / Quebec city, i'll be able in a few days, to borrow a 3Ghz demo sent to my company .... to evaluate it, with pico seconds events ... and see the possibility to craft our own software to control it with lan / scpi ....So far very pleased with many Siglent instruments ...I have to wait for the pico generator to come back to us from certification, to schedule itCan't wait to have it in my hands .. and could easily end with a purchase ...

author: Construct
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 07:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 05, 2024, 06:55:24 pmVery cool.Looking forward to your results.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2024, 07:47:00 am
content: received a 3gig demo unitonly thing so far to play withI have an picolab 45 picosecond generator 4050b and a Siglent SSG3032Xwow thins thing is huge in person, the relay clicks are strong loll boot pretty fastThis puppy has BNC inputs witch play trick on me, since i'm fully wired in sma .... i use an old tek scope tds7254b series with their active input TCA adapters

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2024, 10:00:11 am
content: Pics, pics, we want pics...

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 01:48:43 pm
content: loll here's one, but no tear down loll boy i would love to lollhave to take measurements etc ....just to get the ''know how" for an old tech like me loll I always have some problems with unified channels controlsMulti touch screen it seems, i can zoom with fingers loll the screen protector is glossy, very glossy ...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 02:13:49 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 19, 2024, 01:48:43 pmOn all of the touch Siglents you can zoom with fingers..That is removable protector for transport.. End user removes it.. Means you got a pristine new scope for test.Screen is not glossy.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 03:14:29 pm
content: yep sorry I was not clear enough ....Like a kid i did not read user manual, too excited to play with loll silly meIntrigued by the TCXO option who can be added, i'm not sure if it already equipped with, i did not read the system info / statuslollMy IT guy is the second in queue, he want to read the programation manual / references and try some commands tomorrowWe will develop a special software with it, to automate some tests and generate certifications ....

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 04:59:22 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 19, 2024, 03:14:29 pmNot criticizing, just saying..have fun.TCXO is small module in the back. You can see if it is installed.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 05:20:16 pm
content: non takensadly i can not remove the back panel i think there is some hidden screws behind the rear overlaysadly no internals to showtheTCXOOCXOis not present, it as an look a like pcie 1x slotsome crude compare between an old tek loll at 1/3 of the weight loll

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 05:41:43 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 19, 2024, 05:20:16 pmYeah, that's no to TCXO.That is a big scope..

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 06:07:53 pm
content: A dream....Which will always remain one as long as I don't win the lottery.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 06:13:28 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 19, 2024, 06:07:53 pmIf you do win, get me one too please. 😉

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 07:18:04 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 19, 2024, 05:20:16 pmFrom the US websitePt# 10M_OCXO_L

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2024, 09:02:33 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 19, 2024, 01:48:43 pmDoes your demo gear comes with Jitter Options? And please measure with accurate sources as an OXCO with know PN figures...Interesting would be to connect simple the 10MHz Reference to the input and do some large FFT to see any 1/f figures

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2024, 10:09:38 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 18, 2024, 07:47:00 amPlease tell, with cooling 3 fans, how quiet/noisy is this unit ?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2024, 02:42:09 pm
content: With the fans, very tolerable, you have 4 in it, the one we don't see is the mobo fanthe SDS1204x-e we have are more noisy, their fan pwm frequency is slightly higher, i could say "we hear the flow"?3 meter apart, the sds1204x-e and sds7000a, SDS7000a is almost silent wowDigital inputs, Pcie 1x connectorI wont compare it with the old tek as the noisiest source, 9 fans on one side loll this one is whispering lollFans start faster like a server 76db and slow down to 51db / taken from 1 feet behind the scope.Some of options :Screen test, Led tests, Keyboard test, Developer mode (with password)Self calibration after 10 min warm up, take maybe a good 10 minutes or more, comes with a info bar percentage (% Done) on the screenQuotation request sent for the 3 and 4 gig .....some system infos pictures and options, not sure if we could get most of them on purchase package ? loll or some magic ?not sure if we can call a touch screen calibration ? , i would say slightly off, still in the tick boxes but ....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2024, 08:01:58 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 20, 2024, 02:42:09 pmMost options are free as part of an introduction promotional package until mid 2024https://siglentna.com/news-article/siglent-sds7000a-introduction-promotion/https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/siglent-sds7000a-introduction-promotion/https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-78.html

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2024, 09:14:48 pm
content: QuoteLots of options, much to my delight.Including some that only lecroy usually has and that we need.I think I'll have to talk to our purchasing department.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 03:07:28 am
content: loll done that loll still waiting for an quote answerI'm impressed, still lot to discover, still have to master the "unified 4 channels controls" witch is not my forteControls are fast and responsive to say the least.But another thing:When you request the "auto setup", you get an yes or no popup asking if you still want to do it ?? witch break a little bit, the purpose of the auto setup ??Unless it could be risky for the input stages ?? That should be removed loll ... trying to see if it's an selectable / removable option ??Because the small SDS1204... dont have this nag

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 03:20:02 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 21, 2024, 03:07:28 amGood feature instead of just applying Autoset when you press it by mistake and it then changes all your scope settings.However if this has an Undo (and it should) no harm is done.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 03:22:50 am
content: I also hate the autoset confirmation. The confirmation should be optional in the settings.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 06:56:57 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 20, 2024, 08:01:58 pmWould be a value, if the the Jitter-Kit is included with missing Jit-Kit specification as the Scope Jitter specification.My 2 cents, otherwise 20K$Hp

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 10:47:40 am
content: Quote from: hpw on February 21, 2024, 06:56:57 amP12https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_12_27/SDS7000A_Datasheet_EN01B.pdf

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 05:03:30 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 21, 2024, 10:47:40 amWell, as SDA7000A may looks like a bargain, with unknown performing figures, but how it compares to aWaveMaster 8000HD: Starting from $270,000

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 05:17:15 pm
content: sadly since there is calibration sticker / void, i can not open the unitthey are on screw i did not saw on my 1st attempt loll near the foot

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 05:38:59 pm
content: New firmware for SDS7000A models.Version： V1.1.5.1270 MBhttps://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS7000A_V1.1.5.1_EN.zipRelease notes1. Cursor: Supported more cursors, and more flexible cursor combination2. Fixed several bugsIncludes the previous version changes/fixes:Supported new probes: Siglent’s SCP5030, SCP5030A, SCP5150, SCP5500Measure: Optimized UX of Track and Trend; Supported to export measure dataFixed several bugsSlow response after pressing Math buttonAWG: SCPI cannot set LoadSome bugs of USB2.0 compliance testSome bugs of 100Base-TX and 1000Base-T compliance testSome bugs on Options’ unlock

author: ddrl46
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 07:16:25 pm
content: Is there any news about the higher bandwidth versions of the SDS7000A being released outside of China?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2024, 10:01:56 pm
content: Quote from: ddrl46 on April 11, 2024, 07:16:25 pmZip.....not that I've asked yet.I'll try to get a programme.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2024, 09:51:35 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 11, 2024, 10:01:56 pmNothing definitive, aiming for Q4 is the word.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 08:24:50 am
content: Finally after a very recent visit to Siglent HQ we were able to spend a little time with a SDS7404A.It's abigscope and reasonably quiet and boots quite fast, no doubt due to its PC based architecture.The unit I played with was of unknown to me FW which allowed several configurations of the display providing up to 9 windows however as only one window in the attached image was configured to display traces .... but you get the idea.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 08:57:48 pm
content: It's such a shame that it's so far away from me in terms of price.Ever since I first experienced it 20 years ago, I've found multi-grid (windows) displays brilliant.I was all the more “disappointed” when I realized that even today this technology can only be found in expensive scopes.I thought that if it already existed in Lecroy scopes from the 1990s, then it must not be a problem to implement it almost everywhere today.If you consider that the Lecroy 93XX scopes had a 16 bit 68000 CPU and a few kB RAM...But no.Too bad.

author: points2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2024, 12:35:33 am
content: Hi Martin72,I've got only a few years experience in electronics (a old diploma in engineering is somewhere)Thus, far from your "20years"...Question :with your experience, you're still looking at RT-scope vs >10GHz scopes ?could you please explain, given that you have a sampling scope at 3kEur (see topic in this forum)... that outperforms these beasts ?Disclaimer : Siglent SDS7000A is a high-end product, at "nice price", like MXO4sJust an idea : for any hobbyist that is looking for "more BW" at "nice price" : a sampling scope is a gift...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2024, 01:09:22 pm
content: At home I have what I can afford and then I want the ‘best’ for the money.And that's what I have.I certainly don't ‘need’ the SDS7000A, but if I could afford it, I would still buy it.Because as I said, the best for the money...Privately, I hardly do anything that requires a high bandwidth, so I could be happy with the SDS3000X HD.As an old man, I just wish I had a bigger display.At work we now have projects that require a higher bandwidth, so a 2.5Ghz Lecroy WavePro HD is now on the way.I would have liked to buy a 7000A for us, but was in the minority, so now a lower bandwidth scope at twice the price.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 02:49:53 am
content: The SDS7000A range has been updated with a new 6 GHz model, OP updated to reflect this.Datasheet:https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_11_12/SDS7000A_Datasheet_EN02A.pdf

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 10:59:02 pm
content: Isn't available also an 8 GHz model?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 11:24:03 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on November 12, 2024, 10:59:02 pmOnly to the east as yet.I have no further info if or when the 8 GHz model might be available to the west.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 03:47:35 am
content: Hello,at Batronix there is the 6 GHzSiglent SDS7604A H12 for € 42471.10Best regardsegonotto

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2025, 07:49:39 pm
content: 7000A ownersJoe would like to see 4 windows with channel on each, as below:Quote from: joeqsmith on February 19, 2025, 07:34:19 pm

author: matia100
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 02:31:51 pm
content: Hey Joe,it runsRoll ModeSiglent says "It only operates at timebase values of 100 ms/div and above. If you would like to stop the display in Roll mode, click Acquire > Run/Stop . To clear the display and restart an acquisition in Roll mode, perform Acquire > Run/Stop again.Note: Zoom is only supported after Stop in Roll mode."

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 08:13:03 pm
content: SDS7000A discussion from here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5824169/#msg5824169

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 08:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: matia100 on February 20, 2025, 02:31:51 pmFirst, big thanks for proving that test case for me. Am I the only one who finds it a bit strange that my 18 year old LeCroy could handle 10ms in that apples to apples case I demo'ed for Tautech, where the 3000 was limited to 50ms, and the $40,000 7000 is limited to 100ms?I was surprised how they pack all the waveforms onto one graph in time domain and require you to use the mouse to drag them. Then to get them in separate unique graphs for each channel, you end up wasting half the screen. Just seems crazy to me that their high end instruments don't seem more polished. If I were spending $40k on a DSO, it would have to hit the ground running. Not based a promise of better things to come. Again, just me.***I should be clear that when spending $5000 for a scope, my expectations are going to be much lower than a scope costing 8X that amount.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 10:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 22, 2025, 08:26:25 pmWell, hopefully by the time it's 18 years old it can do all that stuff too. And cost less. 😉

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 01:06:29 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on February 22, 2025, 10:13:32 pmYou bring up a very good point. Unlike Siglent, LeCroy had the basic grids sorted out in the 1980s. One button to bring up the grid menu, one button to select the number of grids. All channels separated and sorted for you.By the time they released the 64xi and my 8500A, these basic features worked out of the box. Of course, they decided to enter the race to the bottom with rebranding and cost cutting. My 18 year old LeCroy's plastics continue to degrade.Demo of my 1989 LeCroy 7200 (68000 VME chassis, MFM drive) from the USAF, powering up and selecting different grids.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 01:16:18 am
content: Oh yes, my “first” scope was a Lecroy 9400 at work, 125Mhz bandwidth and so heavy...Today we have two more 9300 models with advanced math functions at the start.On their amber monitors, you can see what they measured umpteen years ago, even when they are switched off...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 01:42:23 am
content: Guessing this 4GHz 5 X cooling fans monster out weighs the 9400, just a little. My picture tube has no burn marks which for a 35 year old DSO is surprising. I am surprised every time I turn it on and the old MFM drive I bought used and hacked continues to boot!

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 01:46:26 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 23, 2025, 01:16:18 amWhich is an awesome feature if you need to reference old data. 😉😉

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 04:08:02 pm
content: took time to evaluate our needs, a beautiful SDS7404a entered the shop this week, around 32K$ CAD with some negotiations outch lolli'll update it to SDS7000A_V1.1.7.7.ADS ...still a small rant of the auto setup: give us a choice of full auto and partial auto ...fastboot silent, love it learning ....

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 06:52:57 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 07, 2025, 04:08:02 pmWhat options did you purchase with it?I had asked 2N3055 about running histograms on a PAM4 signal. If you have the ability to run such a test, I am still interested in hearing what the results are. See the following:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5836103/#msg5836103

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 07:08:25 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 07, 2025, 04:08:02 pmCongrats.Did you get the free PA option ?https://siglentna.com/news-article/high-resolution-power-analysis-promotion/

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 07:41:13 pm
content: no ?updated to Siglent Technologies,SDS7404A H12,SDS7AA1Qxxxxxxxx,04.16.05.1.1.7.7 it was older 1.1.5.2i think the LA option was added by this FWjust registered it well see

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 07:45:54 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 07, 2025, 07:41:13 pmYes, now standard in all Siglent DSO's. SPL2016 LA probe for this model.Apply for the free PA option license here:https://siglentna.com/promotion-registration/

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 07:48:58 pm
content: just did i edited previous post thksPurchased from Electrometers in Montreal Canada, excellent service and presentation

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 07:49:16 pm
content: For those that want to play with their new toy here's the parsing of the SDS7000A_V1.1.7.7.ADS.Definitely a BIG file that even has a slave.ADS inside...This slave file seems to be the usual FW update, and the bigger ADS is a full reflash of the BIOS/bootloader/OS.So, the good old "nezha" has aProduct_ID: 16701I'll have a look inside zodiac.app.

author: points2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 12:26:11 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 07, 2025, 06:52:57 pmHi joey & coromonadalix,It's late and I'm tired, but I don't get this post :@ Joey,Is it relevant to use a SDS7000a to monitor a PAM4 signal, given that its BW is +/-4GHz ?The SDS7000a is not able to keep up with the rise time of the PAM4 signal => ending to false measurements.To me, only a sampling scope like the Gigawave or others are relevant... unless you have a trick to trigger a vry fast rise time with a low BW scope :-)@ coromonadalix,Can you tell us more about the signals you want to trigger with your SDS7000 ?Especially, how fast are they at max ? I mean, what rise time of your signals ?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 04:48:00 am
content: well play with pico second, nano second, milli second pulses, we needed 20gig of sampling / channel speed to do soin the pico range we are around 45 pico sec rise timethe 3Ghz was our 1st pick, but we wanted to be sure to catch them, that's why we choose the 4Ghz model, and well build a special SW around itwe were using an old Tek tds7254b 2.5Ghz at 20Giga sampling too to get some of them, you had to select high / def acquisition mode, but as you know this old pup, while working ok for it's age, has it's limit, mostly memory length as you may guess, even an tds7404 was a plan B (now C) just in case lollNot to rantIn 2 years we have bought around 100K $ of Siglent stuff and including 2 x Rigol (1 x100Mhz scope and 1x spectrum dsa815tg)2x SSA3021x 1 of them may be returned for a X Plus model instead, waiting arrival wrong order, need a VNA instead3x SSG3021x many tests in the -10db -70db signals3x SDG1032x2x SDS1104xthe new SDS7404A, with 500Megs passives probes, no need of actives ones, direct input at 50 ohms or 1 Megand other things, and all the others had upgrades, maybe sds7k too ?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 02:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: points2 on March 08, 2025, 12:26:11 am@Poinsettia,PAM defines a type of modulation, 4 is the discrete levels. This does not define the data rates, physical layer. If you took the time to read those posts, the PAM4 waveform I used had transitions around 1-2ns. Symbol times were several ns. Their 7000 typical rise time was a bit over 100ps, which will easily measure these slow signals. But, that's beside the point. What I was asking was when using histograms and scope's built-in statistics to look at a signal that is not bi-modal, does it present correct results. Does that make any sense?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 03:44:57 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 02:56:56 pmLike I said, Histogram in Analysis is separate from histicons in statistics.Of course it will show quaternal distribution on vertical histogram on a PAM4 modulated signal...Even your 3000xHD can do that.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 04:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 08, 2025, 03:44:57 pmActually, it appears you never responded to my post until now. When you ran this test, did you try both the analysis and measurement statistics? I would hope both would show correct results. When using the measurement statistics, did you select amplitude, or use a different measurement?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 06:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 04:02:48 pmThey would both show different results as they should.Histogram analysis is histogram of the waveform. Histogram analysis has its own statistics...Histicons in Measurement statistics are histogram of measurement values.So you measure P-P value, create statistics of it, and then have histogram so you can see distribution how P-P value changed.A histogram on a signal that would be equivalent of PAM8 modulation (yes I need coffee, because I cannot aparently count to 8.)As I said, you can test that on SDS3000xHD.Best,

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 06:14:08 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 05:13:01 pmI moved discussion here...I enable 4x1 view.I create CH1, CH2, CH3 and F1.I press hide in CH2 CH3 (bottom status bar).From the bottom status bar, I drag CH2, CH3 and F1 icons to window 2, 3 and 4.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 06:22:22 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 08, 2025, 06:14:08 pmThat makes sense. So if you have it setup this same way, and turn off CH3. Now turn it back on, does it show up in the graph you dragged it to, or does it only show up in the first graph? Do you have to repeat the hide/drag?***Also, if you have the 7000 all setup as you show, you can always save the setup and reload it. I think that the Gigawave had a special setup that would automatically load on boot. Does the 7000 have something similar?For the histogram, I just need to bring home one of the 3000s and spend some time with it. Problem with that, I may have to buy one for home...***Looking at your PAM8 test ramp, I would expect 8 peaks in the histogram, each with some gaussian distribution.***Oh wait, its off to the left. Ok, this makes much more sense!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 07:19:05 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 06:22:22 pmAny channel that is turned Off or On does that in first window only ( and second if Zoom is there). So if you have some CH shown in first window, and then drag it to secondary one, you are making a copy. So you can have it in both windows or you can hide it in first one...Some things are automatic, for instance math and memory channels will go into secondary windows automatically. Only hardware channels are always all in the first window unless you hide the traces there. Zoom behaves the same in 2nd window.Like I said, it is not very elaborate at the moment.But generally speaking, you can get the work done right now, with few additional clicks.Work is underway on this but can't really share what and when will be available. But they are aware it is not perfect and this will get much better in the future...That includes your questions about automatic layout, saving layouts, etc etc...This platform is in active development. Every now and then firmware updates bring significant new capabilities and optimizations..Glad I could be of help to untangle histogram confusion...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 07:41:41 pm
content: Your comments have been a big help.Regarding your PAM8 test, if you were to trigger on the center of each step and zoom in to where you see a discrete horizontal line representing each state, the histogram would show all 8 states. See attached image showing the PAM4 (persistence on for aesthetics). Default settings with max, top & peak. I would assume it would be similar with your Siglent.QuoteThat's interesting. I would expect that when you turn off a channel, it's off every place it is used, not just the first window.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 08:55:20 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 07:41:41 pmHere we have a screenshot showing the trigger is set to Ch2 yet there is no indication of Ch2 on the display.Is it hidden and why is there no channel tab indicating is an active but hidden channel ?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 09:14:08 pm
content: Siglent's hiding function is great, and I was very happy at the time that this suggestion was quickly implemented.I knew it from Lecroy, but Lecroy brought it to perfection.You can show/hide the channels by using the corresponding buttons as if you were turning them on/off.If no other function (trigger, math, etc.) is accessing the channel, it is actually off, otherwise it is “hidden”.I find that a touch more elegant.Just like the ERES function in the channel menu...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 09:25:17 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 08, 2025, 08:55:20 pmCorrect, Ch2 is the trigger per: "... if you were to trigger on the center of each step ...". Yes it is hidden as to not distract from the Ch1 data. As for why LeCroy chose to hide the tab when the channels are hidden, I would assume by design. Personally, I would not want that information on the screen, or I would have it active. But that's my preference. I guess it would not break my heart one way or the other outside of burning up space.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 09:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 07:41:41 pmLike I said, no problem. Glad to help.Absolutely it will show what you expect.See image.I am sorry I misspoke. Not channel "Turn OFF" but "Hide". You can have chanel active but hide waveform. That is what I meant. My English is what it is. Sorry.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 09:33:11 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 08, 2025, 09:14:08 pmI tend to agree. Their UI seems very well thought out. Most things require few key strokes to get setup. Then again, I have been using their products for some time.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 09:42:03 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 08, 2025, 09:30:18 pmNo problem on the english, spelling or other. We can easily clarify with a simple question here and there.When I look at your original upload, I would have assumed that we would see each state having an equal distribution. Mine is a Fibonacci quasi random number which is not equal. Can you please explain why you are not seeing an equal distribution? If you widen the bins does it settle out?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 10:27:26 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2025, 09:42:03 pmI am not sure exactly, probably some combination of ringing on the steps and interaction of scope retrigger time with repetition of ARB signal cycle (pattern frequency).If I setup ARB with linear interpolation and change to different frequency, I get this, which looks like much more uniform distribution. I would point out that Histogram analysis (blue vertical histogram) here shows quite nice distribution.At this point, histogram binning is automatic. No manual control. If it had manual control on bin size on histicons, I could widen the bins slightly to combine those local peaks. You can see how it would nicely combine to very uniform distribution...As I said, blue waveform histogram shows it better in this case.I am sure you know very well that many times you need to tinker with the settings sometimes to get best results..

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 12:17:27 am
content: I brought a 3000 home to try and replicate some of what you have shown. One thing I find annoying is how the zoomed histograms horizontal axis toggles between volts and mV. See attached.I am using the FLASH stick to transfer the data to the PC. If I unplug it and plug it back in, I have to tell the scope ever time to point to the stick. Surely there is a way to tell it to save to the stick if it is present.When using the vertical histogram, I could not find a way to change the color from blue. I set the Ch1 intensity to 1% to get enough contrast to see the histogram plot. Is there some way to get better contrast?Another thing I don't like about this UI is that they hide menus off the screen and you have to use the mouse to find them. For example, to display the X & Y axis units on the main graph. After fumbling for 10 minutes, I turn the manual. It's clear about the display menu axis label. I missed it because it is off the screen and you have to scroll down with the mouse to find it. Again, I think if you used the scope all the time, eventually you know all the ins and outs of the UI. From a noobs perspective, simple things keep hanging me up.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 12:32:42 am
content: Shown next to my daily driver. It runs cooler, quieter, lower noise, mechanics appear much more solid. That 3054 or 3104 with some improved software and a larger display would make for a nice replacement.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 12:35:27 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 12:17:27 amIn the Utility/Save menu you have 'save to a destination' functionality.However when a USB stick is fitted and you get OSD (popup message) that it is, using the front panel Save button should by default save the PNG screenshot to USB with a single press of the Save button.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 12:45:28 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 12:32:42 amhttps://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds5000x-hd/

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 12:57:47 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 09, 2025, 12:35:27 amOdd. I unplug the stick and plug it back in. As soon as it was detected, I once again unplugged it then plugged it back in. The mouse hung but the scope continued to collect. Eventually the mouse came back but it would not find the stick. I stopped the data collection to see if I was taxing the scope but it did not help. Going to file manager, it would still not find the stick. I reinserted it several more times but it failed to detect it. Plug it into the PC and all is well. This is the same stick I use with my other scopes.I had a very old 2G stick. I tried that with the Siglent and it IDs every time very quickly. I think what was happening is it was taking a long time to detect the other stick. I normally expect to plug it in and hit save. I suspect going to the file manager gave it enough time to detect the stick.With the old 2G stick, it works as I would expect. Plug it in, hit save and it saves to stick.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 01:04:33 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 09, 2025, 12:45:28 amThat appears to be a much better fit. Maybe by the time it is available in the USA, they will have the multi-grid software sorted out.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 01:33:10 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 12:57:47 amSize ?File format ?16GB sticks can give issues in some models but 8&32GB are okay if FAT32. but should be no USB issues with a PC based scope.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 03:02:49 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 09, 2025, 01:33:10 am32G, NTFSScope was able to ID the drive and save files to it, but it does seem to cause problems when using it with this scope.***Stick is marked USB 3.0. IDs as:Device DescriptorUSB version: 2.10Device class: 0x0 - (Defined at Interface level)Device subclass: 0x0 - UnknownDevice protocol: 0x0 - UnknownControl pipe max size: 64 bytesVendor ID: 0x90c (Silicon Motion, Inc. - Taiwan (formerly Feiya Technology Corp.))Product ID: 0x1000 (Flash Drive)Product version: 17.0Manufacturer: SMI CorporationProduct: Not specifiedSerial Number: Not specifiedConfigurations: 1descriptors = "Configuration Descriptor"bLength = 9bDescriptorType = USB_CONFIGURATION_DESCRIPTOR_TYPE (2)wTotalLength = 32bNumInterfaces = 1bConfigurationValue = 1iConfiguration = 0Reserved = 0SupportsRemoteWakeup = 0SelfPowered = 0PoweredByBus = 1MaxPower = 0xfa -> 500 mA

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 03:55:58 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 03:02:49 amI'm surprised it worked at all with NTFS, they must have done something to add support? It should be some version of FAT if you want it to work better. I use Sandisk Ultra Fit 32GB drives in all my TE without any issues, but always FAT. I format them with SDFormatter utility.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 05:20:51 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 03:02:49 amFrom the SDS3000X HD User manual:6.3.3 USB PeripheralsConnect a USB storage device (FAT32 format recommended) to one of the USB host ports for datatransfer, or connect a USB mouse/keyboard to one of the USB host ports for controlling the instrument.See chapter “Save/Recall” for details of data transfer.SDS7000A does not have USB recommendations, only this:37.2. File ManagerThe SDS7000A's file manager has a similar style and operation to the Windows© operating systems.Which would indicate it would have no issues with NTFS.....

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 10:44:11 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 08, 2025, 09:14:08 pmWhen used for trigger, it still needs to have all the settings set right.When channel is active and hidden it will still use memory and halve the sampling rate.It is fully active, except no drawing. Everything else is on and working, math, measurements etc.., using full resources.Showing channel as active is actually the truth.Having it completely hidden sometimes leaves user scratching their heads.....Advanced users that are familiar with the scope keep all that stuff in their head and it feels obvious.I think there is no universal "best" answer here.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 10:56:43 am
content: And I find it irritating when the channel box is still visible on the screen and a small “H” indicates that the channel is still there.But that's probably because I've been used to it differently for years.Either way, hiding is an excellent feature; I sometimes find it terrible when other scope brands show everything because then there's too much going on.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 11:24:45 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 09, 2025, 10:56:43 amLike I said, advanced user, fully familiar to the scope, will have many things "in their head" and will need no "crutches" and will favour fully optimized situation.The rest will be just confused and "why is this stupid scope not let me set sample rate higher.. I have only one channel on... Look, here, only one... Shit, full of bugs.."There are many people that find LeCroy scopes confusing and don't like them. Go figure..And now something completely different.I took small 4GB stick an formatted it NTFS.7000A, 6000A, 800xHD, 2000xHD, 3000xHD detects it no problem and reads/writes no problem.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 03:15:04 pm
content: If there is as problem using different formats, I would expect the manual to state FAT32 format required rather than recommended. The 2G stick that works fine with the 3000 is formatted FAT.Device DescriptorUSB version: 2.0Device class: 0x0 - (Defined at Interface level)Device subclass: 0x0 - UnknownDevice protocol: 0x0 - UnknownControl pipe max size: 64 bytesVendor ID: 0x930 (Toshiba Corp.)Product ID: 0x6544 (TransMemory-Mini / Kingston DataTraveler 2.0 Stick)Product version: 1.0Manufacturer:Product: USB Flash MemorySerial Number: 001CC0EC34C7C020469506DBConfigurations: 1bLength = 9bDescriptorType = USB_CONFIGURATION_DESCRIPTOR_TYPE (2)wTotalLength = 32bNumInterfaces = 1bConfigurationValue = 1iConfiguration = 0Reserved = 0SupportsRemoteWakeup = 0SelfPowered = 0PoweredByBus = 1MaxPower = 0x32 -> 100 mAQuote from: 2N3055 on March 09, 2025, 10:44:11 amThe screen shot I showed, you can clearly see the hidden channel is active and being used for the trigger. It was not completely hidden. More, just not a distraction.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 03:40:49 pm
content: Whether you consider speed a problem or not is the question. Take the NTFS flash drive and format it FAT32 and see if it detects it faster.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 04:08:48 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 09, 2025, 03:40:49 pmI guess I was not clear. Once the scope failed to ID that stick and I turned off the data collection to try and give up more processing power, I had left the stick plugged in for at least 10 seconds.Turning the scope on today with the problematic stick inserted prior, it detects it. With the collection turned off, I can reinsert the stick and it is having no problems detecting it. It takes about 6 seconds which is fine. When I tried to save a screenshot, once again the mouse stops responding for several seconds. Eventually it returns and the image is saved. I plug the stick back in and now it detects it in about 2 seconds. I start collecting data and press save. Again, the mouse hangs. As before it eventually comes back and the image is again saved. I save several screens in a row, the mouse never hangs. All data is written correctly. I use this stick today and see if I can get the scope to not detect it again.It may not be the stick but CPU just not having enough processing power. We saw this when running the roll test where moving the mouse causes the sampling to jitter.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5817243/#msg5817243A second video after Tautech requested the same settings on both scopes.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5818377/#msg5818377The worst I have seen so far was I had left the stick inserted and left the scope running for about an hour. I then selected save. The mouse and screen locked up for about 18-20 seconds. It then saved the data. Really odd.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 06:02:34 pm
content: I am not liking the how the measurements do not automatically pack to the left. Say you have four consecutive measurements added from left to right. You remove the second measurement. I would expect it to move the third and fourth measurements to the second and third places.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 06:31:37 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 04:08:48 pmMy point was that FAT is more universally compatible, and generally requires less resources. I'm curious if you do the same tests with the same stick, but FAT32 formatted how it responds. I assume better, but only testing will tell.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 07:27:02 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 09, 2025, 06:31:37 pmHow to solve a murder 101, start by destroying the body.I did attempt to replicate what I saw with the stick inserted and the scope running, left for some time. After about a half hour I again pressed save. Once again, the mouse locked up but not the data collection. This time for about 12 seconds before it saved the data. It's pretty odd.I have a different brand 32G stick. I just formatted it to Fat32 and installed it into the 3000. Oddly enough, it took about 40 seconds to detect the fresh stick. I then tried to save and again it stalled for about 12 seconds. Guessing this is not an NTFS format problem but maybe it doesn't like the sticks I have or they have too high capacity. It likes that old 2G FAT stick.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 09:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 07:27:02 pmThey (at least historically) prefer drives 8GB or below.The NTFS vs. FAT32 test only works if you're using the same flash drive. Once you switch brands/models, there are other factors to consider.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 10:58:24 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 09, 2025, 09:44:55 pmOf course I was introducing a new set of variables. Wasn't it obvious I wanted to know if it was unique to my one stick?Odd such a new product would not consider larger sticks. Quick search on Google, sub-search doesn't list parts below 16G. Time to stock pile vintage sticks to support Siglent products?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 11:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 10:58:24 pmlol, I wanted you to try FAT32 on the same stick for the same reason. 😉QuoteIt's not just the size. Compatibility is goofy...probably because of the inconsistent quality of flash drives.I've been using the Sandisk Ultra Fit 32GB cards on all my TE without any issues for years. Siglent, Hioki, Keysight, Keithley, TongHui/SourceTronic, etc. Many of them claim they need smaller size drives, but those have always worked for me when formatted FAT32.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2025, 11:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 09, 2025, 11:05:29 pmDo you have a 3000X HD you can test it with? If so we should be able to replicate this fairly easily as I have one which is formatted FAT32 that I can try.***Left to right, Sandisk Ultra 32G, EMTEC 32G, Kingston DataTraveler 2G, Silicon Motion 32GThe scope appears to detect the Sandisk much faster than the other two 32G sticks. It does not seem to cause the brief lockup problems I experience when using the other two. The scope appears to detect the Kingston stick the fastest of the four.***It reads as follows:Device DescriptorUSB version: 2.10Device class: 0x0 - (Defined at Interface level)Device subclass: 0x0 - UnknownDevice protocol: 0x0 - UnknownControl pipe max size: 64 bytesVendor ID: 0x781 (SanDisk Corp.)Product ID: 0x5581 (Ultra)Product version: 1.0Manufacturer: SanDiskProduct: UltraSerial Number: 4C531001401115104450Configurations: 1descriptors = "Configuration Descriptor"bLength = 9bDescriptorType = USB_CONFIGURATION_DESCRIPTOR_TYPE (2)wTotalLength = 32bNumInterfaces = 1bConfigurationValue = 1iConfiguration = 0Reserved = 0SupportsRemoteWakeup = 0SelfPowered = 0PoweredByBus = 1MaxPower = 0x70 -> 224 mA

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 02:42:36 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 09, 2025, 11:38:19 pmNot yet? 😉Your results don't surprise me. The two name brands outperformed the generic ones, and the smaller capacity drive won.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 03:28:51 am
content: I scored just a few Siglent branded USB sticks..... 32GB FAT32 and IIRC in 16kB clusters and everything I've used them in thus far has worked just fine.Not tested in everything just yet.....saving it for a rainy day.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 04:00:08 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 02:42:36 amWhat surprises me, and why I initially posted is that Silicon Motion 32G has been used with my LeCroy scopes since I bought the stick. It has never given me any problems. My scopes are now about 18 years old, both running XP. I would have thought if anything, a modern scope would be even more compatible with various peripherals like these sticks.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 12:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 04:00:08 amThat doesn't surprise me either. Those are Windows native scopes. NTFS is Windows native, specifically made for Windows. Adding NTFS drivers/support to other OSs is why you see those issues. I used to have to add drivers and an app when I needed to use NTFS with my MacBook (Unix based). Same is true for Linux based systems- support had to be added as it (at least historically) wasn't natively supported. I think in 2021 Linux kernel 5.15 added native support for NTFS, but how that applies to custom Linux OS stuff like in these scopes is a different question.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 02:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 12:59:36 pmAs I previously wrote:QuoteOtherwise, I am expecting the scope to handle all the basic Windows formats.I was going to allow the scope to format one of the problematic sticks and see if that improved things, but it does not appear to support formatting.***I would check the scopes built-in help but I need to learn how to read Chinese first.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 02:46:24 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 02:07:12 pmIt does handle it, but that doesn't mean it will be as fast as FAT32. NTFS was created specifically for Windows, so any other OS has to add resources to support it. Does it work? Yes. Will it work as fast as FAT32? Probably not. At least not yet. They might improve it. Maybe somebody on the beta team can report that it's very slow compared to FAT32.I recommend using theSDCard Formatter utility. It's usually the best option in this situation.QuoteI studied Chinese intensively in college, but my (lack of) reading skills wouldn't help there either. 🤣

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 03:17:06 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 02:46:24 pmThat gets down to how you personally define "works". Does it eventually unlock the mouse, resume data collection and save the file, then yes, it does work. Again, FAT32 on a different 32G stick was very slow. I think you are hung up on NTFS being the problem. I can't say that for sure.The PC can format the sticks. Windows has supported them for some time. I was more curious if I used the scope's built-in file support to setup the sticks, would it improve. Sadly, they don't support this.My plan is to try some other devices as well. Maybe a mechanical HDD or larger M.2 stick.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 03:29:40 pm
content: USB sticks handling in Siglent and Rigol stuff is something of a "dark science" that I suspect we'll never fully understand.We'll have to wait for the singularity moment when a machine reveals the error we've all been making.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 04:12:34 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 03:17:06 pmComparing another stick is not helpful. You have to eliminate the hardware/chipset/etc. differences between the two sticks to test the file system.The only way to accurately compare NTFS vs FAT32 is to use the exact same drive formatted each way. You can't eliminate the file system as the problem without testing it properly. If you don't see a speed difference, then you know it's not the file system. However, I suspect you will see a difference. I could be wrong, but we'll never know if you don't test it. 🤷

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 04:42:01 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 04:12:34 pmMany eons ago when I was actively analyzing Siglent FW, I tried to compile a table of USB sticks' controller chips that worked OK/NOK. Unfortunately, the movement didn't gain enough traction...Today, as we've seen in all these latest different OSes, CPUs and programming frameworks, the problems continue which reinforce my opinion (of those days) that this is all timings problems and how to correctly deal with the time constraints of the several USB controllers that the sticks possess. I assume the USB port dialog continue to be in the low priorities for a scope's CPU...Another theory I had at the time was: these vendors were using special sectors on the USB disks to allow "special vendor operations" in the machine. As such, every disk/size was accessed in a way that probably not all of them liked, in order for the system to detect if that was a "vendor disk". And that detection routine triggered the non recognition of the drives... I wonder how many of that original source code is still in today's SDS7000A code...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 04:52:42 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on March 10, 2025, 04:42:01 pmI'm sure you're onto something there. From a hardware perspective it's silly at this point to have any issues (though some flash drives are trash regardless, and there will likely always be some with problems). How clunky the scope manufacturer's coding copypasta skill is becomes the question. 😉

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 05:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 04:12:34 pmWhile running these different combinations may not be helpful to you personally, it is helpful for me. I am getting a feel for Siglent's compatibility. The goal is not to do Siglent's job for them but educate myself. I don't mind posting the details of what I have done, as it may save others the trouble.Quote from: tv84 on March 10, 2025, 04:42:01 pmDid you make this all public? If so, where were you posting it?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 05:54:11 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 05:43:17 pmIt has nothing to do with me personally. It's about making a fair comparison, and understanding the tests you're doing. If anybody wants to know how FAT32 performs vs. NTFS on a specific platform, the data is meaningless unless you test both file systems on any drive you're going to test on the platform. Otherwise, the only data you can present is Drive A with Filesystem A vs Drive B with Filesystem B.If you want to know how a filesystemactuallycompares on a platform, the ONLY way to test is to eliminate any hardware/firmware differences. The only difference must be the filesystem.I don't work for Siglent, we're not doing anything for them.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 06:00:59 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 05:43:17 pmThere was no publication as there was practically no participation from Siglent owners, in this forum.Once people get their device fully upped, most quickly forget their need to contribute. They become "too busy with their new puppy"... and "for sure someone else will contribute".I think I was asking for people to use something like USBView in order to harvest the info of their sticks. But maybe that was indeed an herculean task to ask...The matter was: the more contributions we have from different USB stick owners, the bigger the chance we could get some patterns in controller brands/models.(Of course I also did not put a banner in the primetime TV, so...)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 06:08:02 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 05:54:11 pmGuessing you will remain fixated on NTFS until I reformat the Silicon Motion 32G. Of course, then you will want to reformat the other sticks to NTFS. Then buy more sticks.. Then maybe consider the cache and different allocation unit sizes... When will it end?Again, this is something Siglent should have done to test their code.***Seems similar to my DMM testing....

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 06:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on March 10, 2025, 06:00:59 pmDid you ever get any interest from Siglent? Seems like this is something they could make use of.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 06:43:19 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 06:08:02 pmlol, I was mostly curious about seeing how both filesystems work on the Sandisk Ultra 32G, since I know that should be a decent performer either way.Yes, Siglent (et al) should do better with USB stick support.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 07:00:07 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 06:43:19 pmOk. I will first reformat the Silicon Motion 32G to Fat32 with 16k allocation unit size and cache off. I will then restore all of the original files onto that drive, test it with the Siglent and note the results. I will then reformat the drive to NTFS using the same settings are again test it with the Siglent and note the results.I will then repeat the above with the Sandisk Ultra.Of course, the meter guys will remind us that it was only one stick each and that is not statistically useful information.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 07:10:17 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 07:00:07 pmEveryjourneystatistic starts with a single step. 😉

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 09:41:09 pm
content: It seems like a good excuse for you to buy one and run your own tests. Maybe tv84 had collected similar data and could weigh in on what they found.QuoteDoing this, the Siglent detects the stick within a couple of seconds. Saving is no problem. It seems to work about as good at the 2G stick.QuoteThe first time I inserted the stick, the Siglent detected it after several seconds. The second time I inserted it, the Siglent would not detect the stick, even after 1 minute. I turned off all data collection (stop) and let it continue to sit another minute. No luck. I the reinserted the stick two more times waiting a full minute and the Siglent failed to detect it.I then inserted the stick into the PC which had no problems detecting the stick. I performed a single R/W operation without any problems. I then reinserted the stick into the Siglent and it detected the stick.This is what I had seen before.QuoteI enabled data collection then inserted the stick. The Siglent detected the stick quickly. I was able to save data without any issue. I tried reinserting the stick several more times and had no problems.I then reinserted the Silicon Motion stick (NTFS from above). Siglent detected it within a two seconds. No issues saving files. I then reinserted it a second time. Once again, the Siglent would not detect the stick even after two minutes. I then stopped data collection and reinserted the stick. Again, the Siglent would not detect the stick after two minutes.I once again inserted the Silicon Motion stick into my PC. The PC immediately detected the stick. Without performing any R/W operations, I then reinserted the stick into the Siglent. The Siglent would not detect the stick after two minutes. I then reinserted the stick into the PC and performed a single R/W operation (delete and save 1 file). I then reinserted the stick back into the Siglent where it immediately detected it. I could again save to the stick.QuoteThe Siglent detects the Sandisk within a couple of seconds after insertion. Saving and reinserting causes no problems.Reinserted the Silicon Motion. Siglent detected it within a two seconds and no issues saving files. I then reinserted it, and again the Siglent would not detect the stick even after two minutes.There is an obvious pattern to the madness but Siglent would need to step up to solve it. My suggestion to future Siglent users remains unchanged. Save your old 2G sticks and maybe format them FAT. If you find a stick that works, mark it Siglent and keep it with the scope.****Just to add a few more details. With the Silicon Motion still installed, I allowed the Siglent to sit with collection stopped for another half hour. It never detected the stick. Leaving the stick inserted, rebooted. This had no effect. I then power cycled with Siglent unplugged. This had no effect. What I did notice is the first time I unplugged and reinserted the Siglent showed the stick in the file manager for about a 1/4 of a second, then removed it.Inserted stick back into PC and copied a single file onto it. Reinserted into Siglent where it was immediately detected. I then saved five consecutive screen shots to stick. No problems. I then removed and reinserted stick. Siglent immediately detects it. Appears Siglent is putting something onto this stick and without it, it fails to detect it.****Just some more crumbs. Plug stick back into PC and delete the Siglent directory. Remove and insert into Siglent. Siglent detects it. Reinsert, Siglent detects it. Reinsert, Siglent will no longer detect it. It appears that for a fresh drive they give you some number of chances to use it. If you save some amount of data to the drive within so many insertions, it will write something onto the drive that it then seems to allow it to use it for ever more. Otherwise, it bricks it and you are back to the PC. Again, writting a single file to the stick with the PC appears to be enough to reset what ever their mechanism is to initialize the stick. This thing is fucked up.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 10:10:34 pm
content: I use various sticks between 8 and 64GB on my SDS3104X HD without any problems.What they all have in common is that they are formatted in FAT32 or exFAT.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 10:14:12 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 10, 2025, 10:10:34 pmIf Siglent requires FAT32, they shouldn't be recommending it. I updated last post after finding another bread crumb.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 10:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 10:14:12 pmFrom the description of the issues in the previous post, it sounds like detection is more difficult on NTFS formatted USB drives when an operation was interrupted during use. This is like when some systems (Mac included) require(d) you to manually eject an external drive (in the software OS) before physically removing the drive. I'm not making an excuse for this, but pointing out what is likely the source of the issue. Some drives are worse than others regarding this.When these issues occurred (on regular computers, not scope computers), the drives would often need to be put through drive scanning/repair or be formatted before use again. Your workaround of accessing / writing the drive from a PC is good to know for anybody else that has this issue.This might be useful for the beta team to review if NTFS support is something they care about.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 10:34:59 pm
content: More crumbs added. May provide some insight. Seems to reproduce.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 10:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 10:34:59 pmMight also just be a language issue. 🤷Note step 4 from the SDS3000X HD manual.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 11:14:05 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 10:43:12 pmTotally !Comprension too when I posted this 2 days back:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg5842435/#msg5842435But what would I know, according to Joe I'm just a sales droid.RTFM should be a real thing for some.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 11:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 10, 2025, 10:43:12 pmThat's after it fails. Step 4 should read, use your PC to write one file to the storage device and then insert it into the Siglent. Make sure to save some files from the Siglent to the storage device before removing it or it will brick it.Quote from: tautech on March 10, 2025, 11:14:05 pmYou can't seem to comprehend that there is a difference between a requirement and a recommendation.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 11:37:08 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 11:31:19 pmYou think.Joe'srequirementis for it to work withoutanyissues, Siglent's SDS3000X HDrecommendationis to use USB sticks formatted in FAT32 !As previously mentioned there are no such recommendations for the PC based SS7000A that I could find.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 11:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 10, 2025, 11:37:08 pmI'm posting my findings and suggestions for improvements. You continue to blame the customer rather than providing anything useful. Same old same old. I fully understand Siglent's MSGA business strategy.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-_wrongful-trademark-claim_/Blame the intern for the culture....

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 12:46:29 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 10, 2025, 11:31:19 pmThey should have written that it's required. In this case, it's WABFM! (write a better f'ing manual)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 10:00:17 am
content: Yet, as I said before, I don't have a stick at home that does not work in SDS7000A, 6000A, 3000xHD, 2000xHD and even 800xHD.Noname, and SanDisk.. multiple 4GB, 16, 32, 64 GB.Fat32 or NTFS..Even a MicroSD USB card reader/stick I have works just fine.So it obviously is not such a pandemic as it is portrayed ...AWGs I have do not support NTFS though.It probably is some interaction of Linux version used with USB controllers used on some of the sticks.This is the point where I point out that no matter how much people like/hate Windows, they are the king of hardware support.There will be many devices that will not be recognized by Linux that will normally work on Windows.AFAIK, Siglent does test USB compatibility but nobody can test ANY combination out there.Especially all the combinations of weird USB memory sticks that live on the bottom of the drawer for 20 years.Let's be real.And there is another realistic logic: we can spend months arguing that 3000 USD scope does not support all the sticks I have. Or I can get few 5-10 USD sticks that work fine for my 3000USD device and get it done with...I can recommend SanDisk sticks, and get a fast one. Buy a good one. I have few and not only they work flawlessly, they read/write really fast so you save time.And use network drives if you can. It really is a better way than stick if you have the possibility.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 01:32:56 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 10:00:17 amJust so we are clear, I was asking you about PAM4 when you suggested looking at the 3000. Upon bringing one home to test, I discovered a quirk with a USB stick. People wanted more details. I eventually run a detailed test to try and nail down the original problem and get it to replicate. While I certainly would not consider my small test of four sticks, or finding a single test that would replicate, a pandemic as you put it. I can see how some may go into overload when presented with that much material in short order. Again, I was happy to move on after reporting the initial problem. I was asked for more detail, which I took the time to provide.Now that I have a way to replicate the original problem, I wonder if I can reproduce it with the one of the other sticks.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 10:00:17 amAgain, the oldest of the four sticks I tested worked the best. While I would hope Siglent's firmware group would have spent a fair amount of time testing different peripheral for compatibility, you could be correct. Maybe they let their customers do their testing for them. We are seeing the end result of that live. I was asked about running some RF tests on a 7000 and declined for this very reason.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 10:00:17 amArgument?I provided some details on how to replicate a problem I noticed after I was asked about it. I also made a suggestion to change the wording in the manual to make it more clear to users. Hardly constitutes an argument.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 10:00:17 amAs I previously suggested:Quote

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 02:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 11, 2025, 01:32:56 pmWith due all respect, that is not what I said. I said what I said: that for NO effin manufacturer it is possible to test infinity of USB sticks in a wild out there, no matter how comprehensive test protocol is. And that you read as "they do not test USB sticks at all"...Which is nowhere close to what I said.I apologized for my English before, but maybe it is not my comprehension that is debatable this time.Or, again, I wasn't clear, in which case I apologize.Nobody is naive here. Keysight release history for my MSOX 3000T scope lists 27 friggin pages of changes. Roughly half of it were bugs. I personally found a bug with 3000T going into hard bluescreen because it didn't like something about IPv6 setting on an internet router despite IPv6 being disabled. They found what it is and plainly said that they won't fix it. Change the router.Which is fine by me. They cannot test every possible device type interaction. It is not possible.They will test to some representative sample and device spread and that is it.And I wasn't arguing with you.I understand and accept that you had some problems. I do not contest this.And I, like you, offered my additional test sample of few sticks I have that gave me no problems. As in zero problems.What is the reason I don't know. But that is my experience, not my opinion.Like yours, it is not open for discussion. It simply is what it is.Best,

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 03:20:43 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 02:50:35 pmSorry, you lost me. Quotes where there for both statements. It's simply an interpretation problem. I would expect them to run a fairly comprehensive test to at least iron out the basic problems. For example, catching that the help is in Chinese rather than English was easy to catch by pressing the help button. No doubt other companies will release with bugs and offer continuous improvements. I expect at some point Siglent may offer their help in English.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 02:50:35 pmAgain, no need.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 02:50:35 pmI did reformat the 2G stick to NTFS and attempted to replicate the problem with it locking the device but was unable to get it to reproduce. So, 2 of the 4 sticks I tried have problems depending how they are configured. Changing the format of the other two sticks has no effect.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 04:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 11, 2025, 03:20:43 pmIt is me being confused then. Which is nice to know, because, at least, I am not confused about confusion anymore. Less entropy is nice...I happen to be a bit particular about things and like to keep things separate.So I don't confuse very hard to test to full extent of USB sticks in the universe hardware compatibility test with a screw-up of not pushing English translated help into repository for the release.One is nigh impossible and there will always be some devices that do have some glitches or even downright don't work.And there will be some bridges you fix when you get there..Other is an oversight that is frankly not something to be proud of.Yes, they know, they are not happy about it, and yes, it will be released with next FW...We shouldn't conflate a mistake (help in English not included) with "we have a deliberate policy of lousy testing..".As sidenote , aparently nobody reads help or manual anyways, considering what we can see on this forum....

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 04:11:12 pm
content: on our sds7404 i put anything i have on hand between 2 and 32gb fat32, ntfs, u-disk, or not in some of them, even an micro Usd-card with an usb card reader workno problems ? up to now ?we did some pulse tests and done many screen shots for many peoples ..

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 05:27:38 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2025, 04:03:05 pmThe two sticks I have that are problematic when used with the Siglent 3000 will work fine when formatted FAT32. If they knew enough to add FAT32 to their troubleshooting section when using FLASH sticks, why recommend it rather than state it is a requirement in other sections of the same manual? Why make it ambiguous?Quote from: coromonadalix on March 11, 2025, 04:11:12 pmAs mentioned, it's a different product all together. I only brought up the 3000 because when asking about the 7000 others keep suggesting I look at it. Of course, the 7000 has it's own problems. At least it seems like most are firmware and can be addressed.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2025, 11:56:54 am
content: they have issued at least 4 different fw, i was on 1.1.5.2 now 1.1.7.7SDS7000A Firmware _V1.1.7.7 (Release Date 12.26.24 )SDS7000A Firmware _V1.1.5.2 (Release Date 06.04.24 )SDS7000A Firmware _V1.1.5.1 (Release Date 04.02.24 )SDS7000A Firmware _V1.1.4.2 (Release Date 03.12.24 )

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2025, 03:07:42 pm
content: I had seen that and asked about a roadmap for future updates and what they entail. From discussing the 7000 with 2N3055, there are some changes I would want to see in with the firmware before I would purchase one. There's no guarantee these changes would ever be considered, let alone added.Because it was suggested that I look at the 3000 as a comparison, consider it was shipped with Chinese help. Seems like a quick fix and we would have seen a new firmware release rather quickly. The changes to the 7000's firmware would be a lot more involved. Some of it seems like because of how the code was structured, I doubt would ever get addressed.I played around a bit with the 3000's mask editor. It's fairly simple to use. The auto mask generator needs some work. They offer a eye diagram add-on, and I suspect it will have a whole different setup for the mask. I wonder how it compares. I had asked 2N3055 about this but I suspect they don't have this option or they would have responded.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 12:02:15 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 12, 2025, 03:07:42 pmEmbarrassing bug or not, they don't operate like that. From what I've seen, bug fixes get grouped together and then released after being thoroughly tested. If they plan on releasing 10 bug fixes, all 10 bugs get fixed and tested before release.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 02:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 13, 2025, 12:02:15 amWithout a roadmap, I have no way to know what their plans are or what their idea of thoroughly testing it. I would guess they Beta test their products with customers, but maybe they only use local Beta sites, so the Chinese language was expected.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 02:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 13, 2025, 02:20:30 pmRoadmap, I have no idea unless somebody posts something. They have official beta testers all over the world. You know at least 2 or 3 of them.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 04:27:02 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 13, 2025, 02:29:33 pmI don't personally know of anyone beta testing for Siglent, unless you are considering their customers their beta testers. Assuming you are correct they they are world wide, I have a hard time believing none of them would report the help being in Chinese. They should look at who they have testing, or they need to listen when these beta testers report errors.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 05:51:46 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 13, 2025, 04:27:02 pmOn this forum, you do know some members officially on the beta team. If they want to say who they are, that's up to them.If you read previous comments from other users, you will see that the Chinese help bug has been reported, confirmed, and will be fixed in the next firmware update.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 08:02:55 pm
content: Meanwhile, I no longer understand which model is being discussed here.It would be great if we could continue to discuss the SDS3000X HD in theappropriate threadand only explicitly talk about the SDS7000A here.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 08:32:23 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 13, 2025, 08:02:55 pmThe SDS7000A is the shit! 😉

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 05:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 13, 2025, 05:51:46 pmAh like the Facebook friends I hear so much about.My point about Chinese help is that should have never made it past Siglent's internal QC. Even if that failed, I would have expected the beta testers to report it. If that failed, it's because Siglent didn't act on the feedback they received, or you have to wonder what Siglent's requirements are for becoming a beta tester. One may miss it, but you're talking about a world wide network of beta testers. Did they ALL miss it?? Seems unlikely.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 06:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 13, 2025, 08:02:55 pmThe easy fix for that is not to ask me about the 3000 in the 7000 thread.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 06:24:21 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 16, 2025, 05:59:25 pmWas the help file being beta tested, or just taken for granted? I think the answer to that is obvious. 😉

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 11:03:26 am
content: there is a new thread about Siglent usb, pls keep this thread for THE SDS7K series

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:09:13 pm
content: Siglent Freebie PA option enabled thks Siglent

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:58:19 pm
content: That's a nice DSO20GSPS with 12 Bit ADCs, that's impressive. Do you know which ADC they are using?How's the 32Mpt FFT behave?Best

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:33:41 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 25, 2025, 02:09:13 pmFinally....good, knew you would get it in the end.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 08:58:48 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 25, 2025, 02:09:13 pm

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 11:16:11 am
content: New firmware for SDS7000A models.Version： V1.1.9.1R1~320 MBhttps://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS7000A_V1.1.9.1R1_EN.zipRelease notes1. Supported new AP models: SDS7804AP, SDS7604AP2. Supported Enhanced Bandwidth on 4GHz and below models (Only applied to units which are produced with 1.1.9.1R1 and later FW)3. Improved the response speed in the case of deep waveform length4. Compliance test:a) Added MIPI-DPHYb) Added 2.5G/5G/10GBASE-Tc) For USB2.0, added Receiver Sensitivity test, and supported upgrading the FW of the fixture by the scope5. Math:a) Added operators Tan, Atanb) Added operator FFTPhasec) Added new windows Black-Harris and Gaussian for FFT6. Decode: added CANXL7. Optimized refresh speed in the case of Roll + Zoom8. Eye Diagram: added Second order PLL for Clock Recovery9. Save/Recalla) Supported to save all segments in sequence mode to one single .mat fileb) Supported to save all channels’ data to one filec) Supported Full Screen view of pictures in File Manager10. Supported Wake-on-LAN (Some setting change is necessary. Contact SIGLENT for detailed information)11. WGEN: supported the case in which built-in and external generators are both in use12. Fixed several bugs

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 07:24:21 am
content: OP updated now with 8 GHz models and new SDS7000AP 6&8 GHz models with 20 GSa/s @ all channels.Updated datasheet:https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/25_07_10/SDS7000A_Datasheet_EN03A.pdf

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 03:57:01 pm
content: Well, I've got this extra $55,800 burning a hole in my pocket. The Saelig discount is going to come in handy:https://www.saelig.com/product/sds7604ap.htm$2740 off. Nice!