Does EEVBlog need a Thunderdome? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:39:33 am
content: This is spurred on from the Thunderf00t thread.I get it, avoid political topics. Not my house, not my rules. However politics is inextricably linked to so many topics that dancing around it sometimes becomes almost comical.This isn't so much a free speech thing for me, but rather good community cohesion in the idea that there needs to be a place to let off steam or work through controversial ideas where people are 180 degrees opposed on things.Obviously certain things coming up in every thread, likely derailing them, would be undesirable. However things left to fester without being spoken about also have their own consequences.Food for thought.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:57:40 am
content: I don't know; people blow off steam as need be, usually at their own schedule, and tastes.Myself, a good non-confrontational break comes from watching Woody Harilson's 'ZOMBIELAND'....to blow off accumulated steam.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:07:42 am
content: The other forum I belong to has a "Colosseum" intended for such incendiary discussions as would be inappropriate anywhere else.I think it's a good idea.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 04:21:19 am
content: Think it's a bad idea. People will just end up hating each other and it'll spill over into other areas of the forum.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 04:52:02 am
content: Quote from: Kim Christensen on November 14, 2024, 04:21:19 amI think this is accurate. I saw it happen over on the Australian "Whirlpool" forum. Moderators would just ban you based on who they didn't like that week, plus all the internal infighting and inconsistent moderation as well. But who am I (we) to say who you should and shouldn't get along with? We shouldn't be policing that.That being said, maybe it's worth a trial if Dave agrees? I feel like the majority of the users here are more grown up than over on Whingepool. If it causes issues, delete the whole thing. My idea of the rules for an "adults only lounge" would be:- Largely unmoderated, with exceptions being for illegal, spam or bot content (if someone calls you a fuckwit, don't come whinging to us).- Restricted to certain members only (no newbies).- If we get too many complaints, it's gone.My only real argument against is how much do we want to dilute the technical/electronics content? Perhaps anything totally off-topic in the other areas get moved to the lounge by default? Keep it contained as such.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:20:38 am
content: We have done several community polls on having a "free for all" section on the forum before, and the result is always the same, the majority do not want that.I'm personally a huge fan of "free for all" sections, say whatever you like, free speech, ra ra, it would be fun.But like Halcyon and Kim said, I have also seen forums completely ruined by this, and the animosity it breeds will spill over into the rest of the forum, guaranteed.It's a bad idea. Forums ultimately survive on a knife's edge of moderation.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:24:03 am
content: Quote from: John B on November 14, 2024, 01:39:33 amThere's a place for that, it's called X.A free-for-all political slinging forum section would absolutely guarantee the exact opposite of "good community cohesion".Heck, in the private supporters section right now there is a very active thread on whether or not to ban someone for posting technical project information, just because several people don't like what they are doing technically, or don't listen to feedback, or it's morally wrong, or whatever their gripe is.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:30:41 am
content: FYI:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/reminder-this-forum-is-a-not-a-free-for-all-free-speech-platform/

author: flipper
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:32:04 am
content: Quote from: Kim Christensen on November 14, 2024, 04:21:19 amI agree. If you take issue with someone in one part of the forum, you can’t just pretend it hasn’t happened in another part.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:38:40 am
content: Quote from: flipper on November 14, 2024, 09:32:04 amThis already happens a lot in the normal forum areas.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:46:50 am
content: I know it's hard to find internet spaces where you can actually discuss something, and mods don't automatically ban you if don't agree with the current thing. It's tempting to allow it, because of the reasonable mods. But then malicious people use open platforms as an opportunity.And the cancel culture people, when they realize that they cannot shut down voices they don't like, they start posting illegal things. It would be an absolute nightmare for our mods. So not a good idea.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:01:05 am
content: I dunno, you could have a free-for-all forum but where any fighting words get replaced by innocuous ones:QuoteNot terribly productive, but at least entertaining.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:31:57 am
content: Don't think it is a good idea. With politics, religion and how one lives there is no seeing eye to eye for most people who have different opinions and it will only result in "No I'm right and you are wrong" kind of petty back and forth posting.Even with something much more common rules based as electronics this still happens and moderators need to step in, so imagine the shit storms that can form when there is no or only very mild moderation when it is about something much more dear to people. Political and religious believes run deep in most people.In the thread about thunderfoot there is mentioned that there are shades of grey, but that most people only see black and white when it comes to the more sensitive topics. So having such a place to vent your every believe will only lead to a lot of grudges between members with different believes. At least that is my vision on it, but seems to be shared by others.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:44:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 05:20:38 amAs you note in the next message, nowadays X/Twatter is the ideal place for such interactions.Previously it was usenet, e.g. sci.electronics.design.S.E.D. is still active with some extremely high quality technical discussions, but Win Hill (author of TAoE) appears to have recently stopped posting there. S.E.D also had/has some very vituperative interactions that would horrify youngsters. The cretinous kooks there were easily ignored using standard usenet reader applications (which have filtering that surpasses that available on this forum).

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:47:43 am
content: I've made a conscious decision not to check that thread, until I get home from work. . .The general consensus is no, for the reasons mentioned above.Personally speaking, I don't hate anyone here. I know there are many progressives here as well as some conservatives, which doesn't bother me. I couldn't care less if you have crazy opinions such as men can get pregnant or God made everything. I wouldn't have a problem debating them on a separate section, so long as it doesn't spill over into the rest of the forum.I suppose now X is less heavilly moderated (I don't use it myself) there's less of an arguement for a political section here, than there used to be.Full disclosure: I consider myself to be a moderate, libitarian-conservative. I want to preserve good social values, traditional family values, which have served us well and sood the test of time. I'm spiritual, i.e. open to the idea of a deity, but not strongly religious.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:51:00 am
content: put it to a vote

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:54:02 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on November 14, 2024, 10:51:00 amSeehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/does-eevblog-need-a-thunderdome/msg5713347/#msg5713347Alternatively, keep on having a vote until the desired result is achievedWorks in politics, catfood and cosmetics advertising, and medical trials.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:57:32 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 14, 2024, 10:54:02 amyour right majority do not need this here

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:34:28 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 14, 2024, 10:44:22 amI used to be mostly on aus.electronics, I wrote this in the other thread I linked:QuoteI just checked again, and as of end 2023 when Google Groups stopped, the resident trolls were still there and very little else.My Yahoo group instantly became way more popular than aus.electronics but it's gone now.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:41:56 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on November 14, 2024, 09:46:50 amThere have already been several successful attempts to get this forum shut down by malicious former members, by posting material and then reporting it to the server host.Thankfully it was only for a day or two.Once I had to move one big thread from public into the private area because the cancel culture people on Twitter (pre Elon) were searching it and using posts I had made to attack my friends and collegues.They knew I didn't care if they attacked me, so they went after people associated with me, so at that point I had to act.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:41:56 amBeen a member of groups since the days of listservs (1994). This is the only group in which I am a member.Once personal invective, trolling and such get a foothold, the end is nigh. Early on, it was clear the trolls were basically incarcerated people who filled their time by creating swirl. Now it happens from all corners.This forum has set cultural expectations for individual behavior that are self policed and group policed. Egregious cases are dealt with by the moderators. I do not support any move that erodes this culture. This place is a safe zone.I had no idea, but not surprised, external actors have tried to get this shut down. Thank you.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:34:28 amNo comment about aus.electronics, of course.S.E.D. isn't completely dead:twopeople referred to multiple times in TAoE3 are still active. The "invective" is still NSFW, and some of the posters appear to have their invective generated by a macro expansion key with a little randomness added. Some of the invective is accurate and well deserved. Provided you can stand the take-no-prisoners ethos, it is just about tolerable - but nonetheless the SNR is now too low for me to bother.X/Twatter and S.E.D. are awful warnings about what happens in a free-for-all. If people want free-for-all, let them gothere.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:48:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:41:56 amWow, I remember ascii art spamming, but not anything bad like that.Sorry you had to go through that. It's really stressful.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 03:19:26 pm
content: thunderf00t from the start with the shown screen shot was political,it should have been blocked right away, but not, and deviated to other thing(s)since covid, i never tought seeing things like forum comments deviate like this (me included) seeing so many bad things on here ant there, mix of political, religion, beliefs and other things, very strange times we live in ...people get personal pretty fast (i was too)

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 04:56:10 pm
content: We don't need another hero,instead of a thunderdome maybe a pleasuredome we could welcome people to.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 07:08:57 pm
content: From what I've seen, locally, with neighbors and roommates, is that there are SOME folks who by nature will never come around to another person's desired stance. It gets to an extreme oil and water mixing analogy. Facts don't matter, in those type confrontations, and you get the 'double-down' effect, where someone is just going to hang onto (ignorance) with nails dug in.Sooo, a waste of time, and risky, vs benefits.ike I said, go watch a movie or run/jog with your dogs. Ignorance, and propaganda dynamics don't happen in the clear, where a person could watch and correct.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:19:27 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on November 14, 2024, 07:08:57 pmAbsolutely. Two reasons. Firstly, a position arrived at without rational thought cannot be changed by a rational argument, because it was never rational to begin with.Secondly, a person's opinions are part of their identity, so changing an opinion requires them to give up part of that identity, and that is extremely difficult to do.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:28:48 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 14, 2024, 02:30:09 pmWhilst X is a free speech "free-for-all" in that anyone is allowed to post anything, and copy anyone into it. You are actually in complete control of what you see and who you block. So X is basically what you make of it.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:44:45 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:28:48 pmCreating and maintaining a blacklist is time consuming.I don't think you can use a whitelist with X (which would effectively defeat the X algorithm).Incidentally, X has changed the block function. Currently, the block function stops users from both engaging and viewing posts by those who blocked them. Now users can see if those who blocked them, are still posting about them. This "one-way" engagement is designed for abuse.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 03:23:30 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on November 14, 2024, 11:44:45 pmThe previous block function did not prevent someone from @ing you. So no difference there it's just easier for them to still see your posts now.