PC PSU dies.  New PSU installed... Computer only stays on with NO drives powered - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:03:09 am
content: As soon as I plug in a drive to the power jack, the computer shuts down. I even tried unplugging all the SATA cables from the MoBo. It acts like the load is too much for the PSU and the MoBo's power monitoring is shutting down. Not sure where to go from here. I don't have a lot of compatible equipment to go swapping things around.A couple days ago, I smelled something coming from my desktop computer case. Before I could positively identify the problem, the computer shut down. I immediately removed the PSU and determined that the smell (burning electronics, like hot clutch or brakes in a car) was definitely coming from the PSU. I did the paperclip test on the bench. Everything seems fine, but I don't know how to load test the PSU. The entire system is only a year old. Still under warranty so I'm sending back the PSU. It's a Corsair cx750-m. In the mean time, I ordered another PSU. A 750W EVGA. After plugging it in, I could only get the computer to boot to the UEFI as anytime there is anything plugged into the power jacks, besides the MoBo, the MoBo will shut down in milliseconds. From the UEFI, all the temps look normal. The CPU is hottest running at 45C.ASRock x99 extreme4GeForce GTX 750 Tii7-5820k16GB DDR4500GB Corsair SDD2TB HDWindows 7-64.As you can see, the 750W PSU's are overkill. Any suggestions? I still have both PSUs but since I KNOW something was burning in the old one, I'm afraid, though tempted, to reinstall it.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:07:52 am
content: The power supply failing probably took out some parts of the motherboard. Maybe just some caps, but if the power supply went badly out of regulation when it died it could cause more severe damage.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:57:59 am
content: This was NOT a cheap system. For the price of a 30 cent voltage regulator I'm out $500 in drives? It's no wonder you can't find products with 5 star ratings.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 04:09:21 am
content: Short circuit in one of the drives is a possibility.More likely there is something wrong with power supply and it can't handle the load so it shuts down.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 04:16:19 am
content: Not necessarily the drives that got taken out, could just be something on the MB.Hmm, I've had pretty good luck with all of my PC builds, only one ever had a power supply fail and that was after 4 years. My current desktop is nearly 4 years old, still on the original power supply, next to it is my server that is nearly 5 years old, also original power supply, and across the room is the one that is about 8 years old, with 4 years on the current power supply. If I went by the reviews for any of these, they should have all exploded years ago. I keep thinking I should buy much more expensive units where the soldering is immaculate with not a single spec of flex residue and the capacitors are all the most expensive money can buy, but the various brand mid priced ones I use seem to work just fine. If you are referring to reviews on Newegg - sometimes if I need a laugh I'll pick a product and read them, because sometimes they are hilarious, especially the bad ones - got to love it when based on what the person writes they are using the item completely wrong and then complain about failure - and score their tech level as highest. Riiiight.... I actually took a chance with this current machine, I've always been an Asus or Gigabyte fan, but I went with Asrock this time and so far this machine has been as solid as any I ever built before.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 06:12:36 am
content: Some things to try.1. Clear the CMOS2 If using more than one drive, try each drive separately by itself.3. Try the drive in a different SATA port.4. If you have any wanky utilities supplied by the MB manufacturer, disable them.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 07:14:56 am
content: Or you just happen to have another dodgy power supply.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 07:20:23 am
content: I would think that it would be better to measure the resistance on the power connector of the HDD (to see if it is shorted), before connecting it to the PSU.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 07:31:23 am
content: By process of elimination you could try plugging the peripherals like drives without the motherboard plugged in. Although not sure how you'd be able to tell since you said those are SSDs. Perhaps the PSU will shut off if the drive is faulty, like it does when you plug it into the motherboard.Some power supplies require a resistor on the 5V line to get stable 12V output sans the motherboard. Not all do. Yours might need it if you're using it without it being plugged into the motherboard.But my hunch is that something is short circuited on the motherboard, or the drive you're plugging in is short circuited. You said you smelled burning electronics, by all means take the motherboard out and inspect it closely. Check the electrolytic caps for short circuits with your DMM's continuity tester.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 08:11:31 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 29, 2016, 07:36:34 amIf I understood her post correctly *anything* she plugs into the power jacks shuts down the computer, not just the drive. I am suggesting she tests the components individually without the motherboard plugged in, to eliminate any issue with the components themselves. My theory is that something is short circuited on the motherboard and anything plugged into the power rail nudges it passed the threshold for it to shut down.Quote from: chipwitch on January 29, 2016, 03:03:09 am

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 08:21:06 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 29, 2016, 08:18:31 amI don't know what other components she has, anything implies multiple (DVD drive?), but if HDD is all she has then test the HDD. Without the motherboard. If the PSU doesn't shut down then we know HDD is probably fine.Just checked the specs again, she has two drives, the SSD and a conventional.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 12:52:24 pm
content: Thanks for all the tips. Everything I've said so far is accurate except that it was a 1Tb HD, not a 2Tb. I found the 2Tb. I hadn't installed it yet... so that was fortunate.blueskull has the right of it. The GPU is powered by the MoBo. The only thing powered by the PSU, besides the MoBo is the following:1Tb HD.500Gb SSDDVD drive.That's it.Since I had the spare 2Tb drive, I tried plugging it in. It works as expected. Trying each of the old drives one at a time revealed that all are fried. Thank you Corsair for your fine quality PSU (piece of shit unit?). You owe me a HD, SSD and DVD. I'd guess I'd have an easier time collecting souls from Satan. Not to mention the weekend I'll now be required to sacrifice to reinstall everything.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 01:04:55 pm
content: Maybe there is an SMD fuse before the TVS diode on those HDDs, and if you replace them (both), HDDs will work again?

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 01:17:32 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on January 29, 2016, 01:04:55 pmMaybe, but a HDD with a blown fuse would simply not work - these shut the PSU down due to overload.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 01:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 29, 2016, 12:52:24 pmIf you are lucky, only TVS diodes got fried on those drives. You can unsolder those and check if the drive works.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:17:24 pm
content: @ wraper... do you really think so?I'm not a hundred percent sure yet that it was the PSU, though it is certainly a compelling argument. I think everything is still under warranty. I know the PSU and SDD are. If I don't have to send them in for warranty, I'll certainly give it a shot.Oh, and I can also detect a little of that burnt clutch lining smell coming from the SSD now that I've removed it. So, probably not boding well for that. The HD pcb looks good on the bottom. No smell. Would be nice to salvage something.I found a forum where someone complained of the same thing. Same PSU (Corsair cx750m) fried all drives. Corsair told the individual to try the PSU in another computer before sending it back, to make sure it was damage. Well, it was confirmed. The guy installed the PSU in his friends computer and fried it as well! Way to go Corsair.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:28:48 pm
content: Over the years I've found that buying power supplies from the companies that actually make them, instead of companies that mainly get by on brand marketing, has generally worked out much better for me.If any of your components are still under warranty, definitely try to send them back for replacement while you still can.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:40:15 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 29, 2016, 03:17:24 pmI wonder if they have that in an email from corsair, in which case they have blame for a claim

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 03:41:58 pm
content: That's not often easy to do - even the highly rated top of the line power supplies are not made by the company that's selling them. The better hardware review sites break down the internals as well as doing the testing for load regulation, ripple, and the like.I do try to buy power supplies from companies that a predominantly power supply companies though. Corsair makes nice cases - I have 2 of them - but their power supplies and SSDs and other hardware is usually not up to snuff. Their memory seems OK, if a bit overpriced but there is so much bullshit in memory marketing it isn't funny. OK I suppose if you are after benchmark bragging numbers, but once you get to a certain level that's the ONLY place you'll see a difference.Does suck when you lose a machine. Mine are all backed up to my server, and the backup is then replicated to a cloud backup. Not so much for any critical files like irreplaceable photos, those are already stored on the server on multiple physical disks which are backed up to the cloud as to just make life easier if I do have to rebuild, or accidently delete something.One thing that can help with a physical drive is to get another of the same model and swap the blown PCB with the good one, this can work to allow access to the drive and salvage the data. Blowing the control board out usually has no effect on the data stored on the platters.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 05:40:42 pm
content: The exact same thing happened to me a few years ago (failed PS, tried a new one, still nothing, built a new system, tried to plug the old drive into it to recover the data). The only difference is that instead of the new system just not turning on when the old drive was plugged in, the drive actually lit on fire.http://www.thesuicidaleggroll.com/hosting/DSCN0521_resize.jpghttp://www.thesuicidaleggroll.com/hosting/DSCN0522_resize.jpgThat was a fun surprise. The house stunk like burned electronics for a couple of weeks after that.Since then, I only use server-grade power supplies.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 06:06:32 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 29, 2016, 03:17:24 pmI personally repaired damaged HDDs with shorted TVS after applying incorrect power. Don't know about you, but I have enough of skill to solder something or disassemble the device several times. And later that can go to warranty unnoticed as if nothing was done.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 06:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 29, 2016, 06:06:32 pmIf nothing else, at least put an ohmmeter across them and check to see if they're shorted, then make the decision on how to proceed with that knowledge. If they turn out to be shorted, consider removing/replacing them to see if you can recover anything.-Pat

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 09:19:22 pm
content: Cubdriver, can I do that safely? I'm just a newb with electronics. While I think I could probably take the device apart for a looksee, maybe even a little soldering, and then put it all back together for warranty, I just don't know if it's worth the risk.So, if you tell me how to test them for shorts without damaging them further, I'll get right to it.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 09:42:08 pm
content: Always a bit of a laugh to be had when people spend $$$ on there PC but only $ on the PSU, to any that follow, try brands like enermax or delta,To the op, atleast for the sata hard drive, and possibly DVD drive, grab a multi meter and probe between ground and each voltage rail until you find which one is shorted (guessing 12V)If the data on the drive is not critical (photos you cannot replace, or something for school or work) then i would just say RMA it,If it is critical, and your not confident in your abilities, have a look around for a local hacker space or Ham radio group, they should have the tools, experience and knowledge to identify and lift a shorted protection diode if such is the case,

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 10:04:40 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 29, 2016, 09:19:22 pmDo you have a DMM? If so, probably the simplest way to check would be to measure the resistance between the pins on the drive(s) where the power supply connects. For starters what kind of drive is it? A SATA interface (likely) with small black connectors, or an older type with a translucent whitish Molex connector? (The power connector will be the one with the red, black and yellow wires going to it).Set the meter to measure resistance, and put the black lead on the pin the black wire goes to, then check resistance by touching the red lead to the pins for the red and then the yellow wires. If it's a SATA drive, it might have an adapter harness; this will have the black connector that plugs into the drive on one end and a whitish Molex connector on the other, which will connect to the power supply. If you unplug the end that connects to the power supply, you should be able to easily probe the leads going to the drive.That'll get you started.-Pat

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 01:27:02 am
content: An easy (no soldering) way to fix this, is to find a company that has a replacement PCB for that exact drive (compare model and photo of PCB). Now see if they also do the chip transfer.Basic idea is you send them the old PCB, they transfer the 8 pin eeprom to the new board and post it back. Fairly idiot proof.Test the windings on the spindle motor aren't shorted/open circuit, these are a row of 4 contacts on WD drives.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 01:42:40 am
content: Quote from: station240 on January 30, 2016, 01:27:02 amNot that simple. Firmware can be in the controller even if there is an EEPROM on the board. Also there can be no separate EEPROM IC at all. If you put the board with different firmware, there is a high chance that you would not get your data back even with using original repaired PCB.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 02:39:53 am
content: If you have important data on it that you want recovered, I'd be really careful. If you lack tools needed for the job, you might want to send it to someone to do it for you. Doing repairs on small components with the wrong tools is only liable to cause more damage.In the meantime I'd probably get another drive and install Windows on it so you can get your computer back up and running, and evaluate your options as to what to do with the damaged drives.If you want to give it a try yourself:- Get yourself a DMM, they are relatively affordable. Amprobe 510 has a good reputation around these parts.- hot air rework station, I had good luck with this one:https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706- some solder wick- tweezers- solder paste (and some flux, although with solder paste you don't really need it)- rubbing alcohol and q-tips you probably have- jeweler's magnifying glassWatch some videos on how it's done. This guy uses a hot air rework station in all his videos pretty much:https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroupFind an old piece of SMD electronics you don't care about and practice. Once you're confident, go in and try fixing it yourself.Also you can post pictures here along the way, and I am sure we'll guide you as best we can.p.s. and remember heat is harmful to electronics, they can only take so much. It's all about applying the right amount of heat in the area you need for as long as it required to solder/desolder. Any more heat than it's required is liable to damage the board or surrounding components. And don't inhale soldering fumes, do it in a well ventilated area.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 02:51:06 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 29, 2016, 10:04:40 pmOk, thanks. Just didn't know if the DMM would damage anything.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 02:57:44 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on January 30, 2016, 01:27:02 amSo, it'll just be the eeprom that got zapped? I'm confident in my soldering, just not enough to make it look like a wave-solder on a production line... so as to pass warranty inspection for tampering. If it's a dip configured 8 pin chip and I can order it pre-programmed then solder, that's cool. That I could do, SMD's I haven't done, but I've seen how and think I could do that too, just never tried. Where does one go to find these replacement boards? I couldn't even find but one place local that had any internal DVD drives, they only had one and it was double the price online. No wonder retail stores have all gone.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 02:59:00 pm
content: Strange... every time I post something this morning, I'm the web server is dumping back at the forum directory.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 03:04:48 pm
content: Quote from: Muxr on January 30, 2016, 02:39:53 amI'm a newb, but not that newb.I actually have an electronics shop that would make some, or one or two people in any case, envious. I'm not very good with a scope and don't have much experience yet... but this site has been a big help. Your advise is all good. I hadn't really considered trying to fix these myself, but I'm seeing a lot of encouraging support. Thanks everyone!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 03:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 30, 2016, 02:57:44 pmThis fault has nothing to do with eeprom. He advised to move the eeprom from the faulty to the working board and put it on the HDD. Though this is very flawed suggestion. the easiest way is to remove the TVS dioodes (check with multimeter if they are shorted), if they succeded to protect the rest of the electronics, HDD will work again. If not, it is seriously fried.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 06:13:14 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 30, 2016, 03:32:55 pmThanks for the clarification. I understand now. I just received a new SSD and more importantly, the DVD to install an OS. I had them overnighted. I'll get everything back up and running again. Monday, I'll call the PSU manufacturer and see what they require. If they replace my PSU, anyone interested in purchasing it?I'm going to push for compensation on destroying my drives too. They should at least upgrade me to 64 GB ram. That's within their power and the least they could do. Not holding my breath.Give me a few days, I may disassemble the drives to see what I can see. I'll let you know.Cheers everyone!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 09:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 30, 2016, 03:04:48 pmA brag has been posted so must be followed up with photographic evidence. This is the way the internet works.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 10:04:36 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on January 30, 2016, 09:26:08 pmAKA: Pics or it didn't happen

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 12:43:49 am
content: Oh come now... a calculator, soldering iron and a handful of diodes would be enough to make at least two people envious. It's like saying I can run a 40 minute mile.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 12:45:08 am
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 31, 2016, 12:43:49 amPics or it didn't happen!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 12:49:38 am
content: They're going to want pics.....You've piqued their curiosity.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 04:22:08 am
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 31, 2016, 12:43:49 am. you should know better with this lot, and should have expected that. Heck, it popped into my head when I read the post as well -TTIUWOP. Break out the camera and arrange the diodes artfully around the calculator. Use the soldering iron as an accent piece.-Pat

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 04:32:40 am
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 30, 2016, 02:51:06 pmNope, at least not on the power connections. They expect 5 or 12 volts at some current; I just measured my Fluke 27 and it puts out under 2V initially and drops to about 0.7 once it's done ranging and has settled. (Measured on an old HP 3440A bench meter with 10 M input resistance, because that's what was handy.)-Pat

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 06:47:13 am
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 30, 2016, 02:57:44 pmNo the reverse, that chip is they "key" to regain access to the drive. So installing that chip onto an entire replacement board of the same model/capacity/design etc, solves all the issues.Provided the eeprom and head electronics didn't get fried (unlikely but always possible).Chip on the WD drives is a tiny SMD package, not something a novice could remove easily. Other companies likely do the same if they have said IC.I had to look at this option for one of my own drives, $50 for replacement board, $0 to $10 for getting them to put the old chip onto the new board for you.I got lucky and should be able to fix the existing board, just involves very fiddly soldering.Oh and ignore wraper, he posts an incredible amount of garbage on this forum.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 01:51:40 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 31, 2016, 04:22:08 amOh, that is TOO funny!You're right! I DID know better. Most of the members on here are picture 'ho's.I only meant, I've got the basics. Scope, signal generator, a respectable hakko work station, room to stretch out on a couple benches. It doesn't look like much right now. It hasn't been used for much in the way of electronics in over year, though I did make a small board with 3 relays to use with my arduino to control a homemade chicken incubator... which is on the bench at this moment doing it's thing. I ain't snapping any photos till it looks like a lab bench again!

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 02:05:31 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on January 31, 2016, 06:47:13 amIs that comment warranted? On one hand it sounds mean. On the other, you guys might be BFFs and just trying to get a rise (I hope?). I appreciate BOTH of you trying to help.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 02:48:05 pm
content: The SSD probably has a fried diode, which is shorted, same with the other drive. Simply unsolder the shorted diode and plug it in again and recover the important data, then power off, solder the diode back in and RMA it. Pic of the drive board and you will get tips as to the diode if you are unsure, and I think you did put a pic of your work area up on the appropriate thread.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 03:16:39 pm
content: Wrapper is correct if you locate and find defective TVS diodes on the HDD PCB replacing them will often resolve the problem. It is a very simple repair that requires either some good soldering or hot air skills.On the subject of swapping or repairing defective boards it's entirely dependent on the brand/model. Some are board swaps some are "eprom" swaps, so there is a chance of recovery becoming complicated under some failures (such as eprom, head, disk geometry or identification data).Hiding the fact that you have repaired something is another skill in itself, but if you repaired the drive and tested it probably worth keeping it anyway. If you send a HDD in with defective diodes to the manufacturer there is a chance they won't honor it. Other places might do swaps on the spot just depends.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 04:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on January 31, 2016, 01:51:40 pmLOL. So take a pic anyway. I can barely even SEE my bench right now because I have so much crap piled on and under it.-Pat

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 06:52:55 pm
content: It's always better to take a picture of it sooner than later.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 11:18:46 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 31, 2016, 02:48:05 pmHi SeanB... how ya been? I thought I might have posted some pics at one time. I'll see if I can find it and get these "nudges" off my back