Employed EEs:  Work lab acess - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jmoreland79
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 03:50:09 pm
content: And by employed EE, I mean those that go into work on site for a separate employer opposed to those that are self-employed and work out of their own labs.Does your employer allow you to use their lab after hours for hobbyist purposes? For example, I actually have written into my benefits that I can use the lab on off hours, precluding activity for substantial monetary benefit. That is, if I have a buddy who has a bad PS from an LCD TV, I'm allowed to bring that in and replace caps or whatever is needed. But I can't bring in four or five a night and run a TV repair shop.For me, the obvious advantage is that I have access to $100,000+ worth of professional equipment as well as every value of discrete component I would ever need. My employer sees it as an advantage for them as it encourages and facilitates me to keep on top of developing technology and techniques.Do others have a similar arrangement?

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 05:08:29 pm
content: If they didn't want me using the equipment, they shouldn't have given me a key to the buildingA lot of my personal projects are related to something I'm doing at work anyway so it's an easy sell.

author: pipe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 06:19:41 pm
content: I've never worked as an EE, but as an embedded systems programmer I always need access to the lab equipment to fix whatever the hardware guys messed up.I have never had anyone complain when I use it for my hobby projects, not in any of the three workplaces I've been that had an in house lab, but I've never had access to it explicitly written in a contract either. The one time when I actually asked my boss if I could use the lab after hours the response was something like "of course, the equipment is there to be used" or something similar.In summary: Only positive experiences.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 06:40:34 pm
content: Bah, the trick is to use the lab for home projects during the day! Seriously at my work, it's all seen as professional development and encouraged, free rein to use discretes and stocked components. One of the better perks!

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 06:57:05 pm
content: Previous employers: No problem.As long as you kept it within reasonable limits. E.g. starting a business on the side and using the company's labs was a no-no.Current employer: NO.However, they have a point. Our labs are slightly dangerous places. Not every engineer is allowed to enter the labs at all. Most of those who are allowed, which includes me, are only allowed to work inside during what are essentially office hours. I.e. when you aren't alone inside.During office hours I am allowed to have unofficial projects on the side, as long as they related to what the company does. E.g. to explore ideas, especially if I can show some results, like in the form of a patent filing. However, bringing in a TV for repair during office hours, or even outside office hours? NO.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 07:13:31 pm
content: I am not working in an EE lab but we have here an hacker space that is open to all employees 24/7 and is encouraged, even for private projects. It has 3D printer, milling machine, electronic test equipment, solder irons, hand tools, laser cutter, wide (40"?) plotter, microscope, SMD reflow oven and cold beer in the mini fridge. New equipment is purchased as needed and people it perk with respect. Another thing that is encourage is writing on the walls, I think they are all covered with whiteboards but never tried it.

author: DJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 07:25:05 pm
content: Certain divisions of very large companies have war rooms which are whiteboards all the way 'round.Some of these are crisis centers for the trainwreck du jour, and allow mgmt to show bigger mgmt how they are working a problem.Personally, I love whiteboards.As for lab access, companies can get better work done if access is not overly restrictive.Many seize up over beer, which leaves them empty after hours (at least in most of the states)Techshops are good alternatives if your city has one.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 05:21:32 am
content: As long as it's non-commercial in nature, and doesn't interfere with company business (not holding a company project because you're using something in the lab they need), it's usually not a problem IME.Also make sure there's no fine print about the company owning anything you create during your employment for them, regardless of location, equipment used, or time of day.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 05:23:45 am
content: I've never had it written into an agreement, but has always been implied that you can use the lab after hours for "foreign orders"

author: babysitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 06:34:38 am
content: Still on my first post for ten years and surviving the employee count going down to 1, YES I am allowed to private use of mechanical and electronics lab at work. OTOH sometimes I carry my own DVM or RF Power meter or SA here temporarily when workplace equipment is deemed insufficient.

author: Seán
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 11:08:19 am
content: There are never really any questions asked in our lab. And my company is pretty relaxed about that sort of thing. It would all be seen as personal development and what have you.I would be a bit surprised if someone got arsey about an engineer using a lab for non work things, especially if it was out of hours! But you could understand it if you were using their equipment for personal profit.Seán

author: Thilo78
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 11:14:46 am
content: Interesting topic hereI can't tell for electronics or other labs, but as for office workers (I'm a project manager) there are written rules you have to sign when you sign your contract:1. You are not allowed to use office equipment (PC, cell phone, etc.) for private, non-work-related tasks2. You are not allowed to use private equipment for your work (other country organisations have things like BYOD, but that was deemed unsuitable for Germany)3. You have to check in to the time tracking system when you arrive at the office and check out when you leave4. You are not allowed to stay in the office (or even the building) once you have checked out. You have to leave immediately and go homeSo much for office work in Germany. (at least in the companies I know so far)I'm pretty sure you'd be sued to hell and back if you tried to use the lab for private projects, not to speak of other customer's projects, even if they are unrelated to your company's business...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 11:20:00 am
content: It's written into my contract that i must get written permission to have any other form of employment while working for the companySo i asked for written permission, as i have a for-profit side project. They were happy to provide written permission once they saw it had nothing to do with what the company does (not competing with them).But the document they wrote explicitly forbids me working on my side projects in the company lab or on company time.However. i really don't care, my home lab has got some better equipment than there's anywayI'm waiting for the day when the lead engineer asks to borrow some test equipment of mine!Then i'll say that my OWN rules forbid me from allowing other companies to use my lab gear for their purposes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 11:48:32 am
content: I have always been reluctant to let people use the company's lab for side projects or repairing stuff. Before you know it the lab is one mess and people are working on all kinds of stuff except work. It depends a bit on the person asking though.

author: klr5205
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 12:13:28 pm
content: My company allows personal use of the lab after hours, and we can buy components off the warehouse for cost+10%. Since we are also a contract manufacturer, "costs" at our volumes are generally pretty low.What's more, we can borrow equipment with just an email to the boss, provided of course that nobody needs it for an active project.

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 12:55:05 pm
content: My company allows personal use, nominally out of hours but in practice so long as you do the right number of hours of work a week their not too fussed if some personal stuff gets done in the daytime. If you break test equipment on some personal project it'd be rather harder to explain than if you were doing work but in general they're cool with it. Exceptions are stuff that's for-profit and use of our high voltage test facility.I've not actually seen much written down but I imagine it's like their IT policy, personal use allowed so long as it doesn't interfere with work.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 01:32:03 pm
content: There are a couple of difficulties.First - what happend if you injure yourself? Will your employer's insurance cover you - as B@W points out EE labs are not necessarily the safest of places.What happens if you wreck the lab or equipment? Who pays for that to be fixed.Who owns the IP for anything that you do - this has cropped up in another thread. Generally speaking if you want to minimise your employer's claims on your IP you want to avoid developing it with their kit.If you construct anything who owns the physical result - if it has components in it paid for by your employer it's theirs isn't it?

author: jmoreland79
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 01:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on June 20, 2014, 01:32:03 pmAh. These are the questions I had way back when and is why I had the agreement put in contract form.If I injured myself doing "hobby" work in the scope of my normal work, I'm covered. But if I blasted myself working with Kvolts...well that's on me as we don't do anything like that.As for damage to lab equipment, the same goes.The IP question should be a no brainer. If I work for a company that designs widgets and I try to patent a better widget under my own name, that will never fly regardless of the equipment I used to develop it. Being an independent developer and working for a company in parallel is a huge legal dilemma. In fact with my company we have a brilliant engineer that we use as a consultant and we watch him carefully so that he doesn't undermine our ideas in the event that he is working on a patent for the same concept. Mind you this is from an American perspective.The company allows me to use components therefore I own it. But this falls under not being allowed to do "hobby" work for "substantial" gain. If I abide by that, then the company would have no interest in the $2.00 in parts I used.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 02:00:49 pm
content: QuoteSensible, then you know where you stand.When I worked as a software engineer I had a couple of employers try to claim IP over anything I did while I worked for them - I always got those clauses changed so it was clear that if I did it on my own time, with my own equipment it was mine.

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 02:03:30 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on June 19, 2014, 07:13:31 pmZap, I want to work where you work.. ! Cold beer in the cryogenic chamber... yes!!!!

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2014, 05:54:32 am
content: We are a small shop but we have an open policy for employees and friends to come in and tinker.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2014, 07:17:12 am
content: I am self employed now, but at the time that I was working in smaller and larger companies, I was always allowed to use the lab for private stuff.It was like no question at all.At a time when I had lots of employees, they were allowed to use the lab for their personal benefits, but I wanted to be asked.The risk to the company, the lab and private people is not to be underestimated.We had an intern once and he wanted to use the lab to build himself a small gadget after hours and he had an electrolytic cap exploded in his face, because of wrong polarity. Luckily he was wearing glasses and his face only looked funny for a few days.So, I suggest that these questions are addressed, when you ask your supervisor for the usage of the lab.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2014, 12:09:02 pm
content: Quote from: babysitter on June 20, 2014, 06:34:38 amUnfortunately, I find myself doing this often If I want to get the job done without losing my mind too much. Some of the stuff at work simply sucks because there's no money for it, it's too old or not calibrated. I Get looked at funny sometimes though but my boss is OK with it. (thank god it's only special stuff, the SA and power meter are OK there)I was allowed to use (low voltage) equipment and components while I worked for Motorola but only after office hours but that was no problem since it was a 24/7 place. I was not allowed to take anything out of the building not even a $0.02 LED (it would be theft etc). All IP would belong to the company (stated in my contract). Luckily, the right people were in charge who appreciated that people were interested in electronics and it also meant that you knew the ins and outs of the instruments. Any dangerous equipment like those in the mechanical workshop were off limits but you could ask the guys there to do it for you if it wasn't taking too much of their time. Any side-job required permission from HR but it was no problem usually.Later jobs were OK with it too but it had to be on my free time.

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2014, 03:50:18 pm
content: Quote from: babysitter on June 20, 2014, 06:34:38 amI do this occasionally, usually when working on something a little different to the norm and we'd otherwise have to hire something. Most recently I ended up using my Avo 8 because we were working in an area with high RF fields and the company only owns modern DMMs that got horribly confused.