Spying phone remote control via TV Ad - What do you folks make of this? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:53:49 am
content: What do you folks think? For real or exaggeration?Quote from article published May 8, 2017 inThe Sun, UKSecret messages hidden in TV adverts can order smartphones to spy on people, researchers warnPopular apps downloaded by millions of people are always on the look out for clandestine broadcasts which order them to begin snooping on citizens...The spy apps use software called Silverpush which is designed to listen for “audio beacons” which humans cannot hear....Researchers from the Braunschweig University of Technology visited 35 high street stores ... four were secretly broadcasting these signals....They did not manage to find television advertisements which used the “beacons”, but said Silverpush has patented software designed to listen out for messages broadcast through the telly.This means the technology could be used in the coming years.Source:https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/3507251/secret-messages-hidden-in-television-adverts-can-order-smartphones-to-spy-on-people-researchers-warn/

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 04:05:27 am
content: Seems pretty real. Luckily, I have no need for a "smartphone".https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/05/theres-a-spike-in-android-apps-that-covertly-listen-for-inaudible-sounds-in-ads/I wonder how difficult it is to block the ultrasonics from getting through the microphone.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 04:29:56 am
content: I have no need for a TV.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 04:51:47 am
content: no one really does...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 07:01:23 am
content: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/20/silverpush_soundwave_ad_tracker/https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/03/21/silverpush-tv-mobile-ad-tracking-killed/#64f2217c51ab

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 07:17:14 am
content: Wow, do people actually read what some of these "apps" are permitted to do with their phones?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 07:46:35 am
content: If?Untrusted?QuoteOkay, maybe those researchers are wrong.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 09:53:11 am
content: Nothing new, seehttp://ubeacsec.org/for more details.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:09:11 am
content: 'OK Google''nuff said.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:20:17 am
content: Thats OK. I dont have an android phone and I dont watch ads on TV. In fact my TV is just a big VOD screen.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:39:20 am
content: They tried tracking using the MAC address, but phones started randomizing them when not connected. So they move on, who didn't expect it?

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 12:50:33 pm
content: the best way to stop people tracking you is to use a steel pipe.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:06:17 pm
content: This spying stuff is getting so ridiculous. Seems a lot of it depends on having a smart phone, such as this case.I text a lot to communicate with my family, if it was not for that I'd consider getting rid of my smart phone.Wish there was an open source smart phone that gives you better control. Such as turning off the mic physically when not in use, and not having all the google crap or other spying stuff running in the background all the time.

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:17:55 pm
content: For me it seems like they try everything to track a user. for me it looks like they did not learn from the past years of increasing adblocker usage.At least my smartphone allows me to deny the permission to use the microphone for apps ... and i use this feature.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 09, 2017, 03:06:17 pmTo be safe you'd have to physically disconnect the speaker as well.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 03:52:18 pm
content: You don't really need a "smartphone" to use text messaging.It's also worth noting that this technology may not necessarily be limited to television. If all it requires (other than the phone and app) is that the advertising have an audible component, then there are lots of other possible uses.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 04:38:10 pm
content: I'd also add that those tones could easily be used by YouTube, Netflix, Amazon etc. etc. etc.They could, I suppose, also be used to track pirate copies of films, seed the torrent sites (are torrents still used?) with copies of media that's been 'stamped' with those tones and have the phone report back owner details (and yes, it's got potential flaws, my phone could 'hear' a dodgy copy of a film by accident etc. etc.)

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 05:33:47 pm
content: That is an old technique. That is how Arbitron works. Every radio / tv program sends out a signature tone. A listening devices picks up what you are listening to and watching. This is reported back to compile the tv and radio ratings.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_People_Meter

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 05:54:44 pm
content: Interesting, I had never heard of Arbitron.I suppose it's an evolution then if it can snag the GPS/Cell coordinates of the viewer/listener

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 06:13:28 pm
content: Ultrasonics? O Really?1) mute button2) dog whistle, system jammed3) power off the phone4) Scope it, replicate it, pocket it, now you have a fake-data bomb/jammerEDIT: Oh, and you can get an easy ultrasound signal from the 19KHz stereo carrier in FM radio, just modify a stereo to emit this signal and you have a jammer.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 06:21:25 pm
content: Smart phones are fine, I love mine. The thing is, they're a computer and like any computer you have to be sensible about what you install on it. When it comes to apps, if you're not paying for it then you're not the customer, you're the product. Either it will serve you ads or it will harvest your data. Armed with a little knowledge and some common sense your phone is not going to spy on you.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 06:58:03 pm
content: From the article on Ars, I saw a post with the permissions that are set for the McDonalds app on Google Play. They seemed a bit ridiculous to me, but when I checked for myself it appears correct. Whether the app actually does any of what it has permission to do is not stated. I find it hard to believe people actually use this kind of garbage, but apparently millions do.Quote from: McDonalds app permissions detailshttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mcdonalds.app&hl=en

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 07:04:49 pm
content: I use a basic Nokia phone for voice and text and an old Palm TX for my offline pocketable computing needs (plus a bluetooth GPS module). They can go ****

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 09:41:43 pm
content: it's not ultrasound or other magic kerjiggery. they simply embed a tone sequence in the audiostream. we silly humans don't even notice it. a simple dsp algorithm can listen for it. so if one were to make an app that runs on a smartphone and has access to the microphone array it could detect this easily. the arbitron ( now owned by nielsen) uses a simple dspic to do the work.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:29:24 pm
content: A Canadian company was using smart phones to collect data on vibrator use. And Canadians seem so nice!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/are-we-getting-a-little-too-'connected'/msg1164601/#msg1164601

author: magetoo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:51:57 pm
content: Saw this mentioned at Bruce Schneier's. What do you guys think the reliability of such a signal will be? I'm assuming TVs aren't generally manufactured to reproduce ultrasonic audio, so how do you sneak in below the reconstruction filter, stay above the threshold of most people's hearing and still get through with enough power to establish a channel?I should probably just read the paper...

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 01:46:59 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 09, 2017, 06:21:25 pmI envy your optimism.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 02:58:21 am
content: Quote from: CJay on May 09, 2017, 04:38:10 pmIts been a thing for quite some time now:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinaviahttp://www.nexguard.com/forensic-watermarking-introduction/of course very little information is public as they want to remain secure (through obscurity etc) and there are suppliers of the same concept going back earlier.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:46:42 am
content: How effective you can watermark your media, if it's out there, you're still too late.But at least you know who leaked it.However, I see a dark future for those "smart home" spy speakers.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 11:43:56 am
content: If you have a rooted android, I'd suggest xprivacy plugin for the xposed frameworkhttp://repo.xposed.info/module/biz.bokhorst.xprivacyXposed framework sits between apps and the OS and can enable all sorts of shenanigans. Xprivacy lets you control your phone's response to permission requests, they can function normally, get denied, or have false info fed, along with logging requests and giving you the option to approve some on a 1 time basis. Some things may break programs, when they can't get info they want, and it may take some fiddling, but still pretty powerful.Facebook wants my location? Yeah this week I'm in the Baikonur Cosmodrome. Game app wants mic access? Nope. McDonald's app wants camera and storage access? Nope. (Probably to scan qr codes or something reasonable, hopefully...)

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 12:59:44 pm
content: Quote from: magetoo on May 09, 2017, 10:51:57 pmThat's kind of what I wonder too, I doubt the cheap built in speakers in most TVs can push high frequencies all that great. Personally I can hear rather close to 20khz but most speakers I've tested cut off around 15. Can tell that it's the speaker and not my old age as the cat also stops going nuts.Though higher frequencies are not as easy to hear if mixed in with other sound so even if they did it at like 15khz it would maybe be easy to miss.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 05:12:33 pm
content: Quote from: Seekonk on May 09, 2017, 10:29:24 pmIt gets boring up there in the winter

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 09, 2017, 07:31:32 amWhy are so many people in denial about this?If I asked you can I look ALL of yourCall logsphone booktextspicturesyour home addresswork addressemail address all of your contacts and all of your emailswhere you have been 24/7 for the last few months you would say HELL no!But if you read the agreement for these free aps you are giving them permission to see all of this. Even Uber says it tracks you when your not using the app. Why does uber need to know where I am when I'm not using its app? That's bull shit and taking "a more targeted and relevant ad experience too far! Try hiding your real address and watch how long it takes for you to start getting things in the mail in your real name.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:12:24 pm
content: You can control app permissions individually from the control panel, at least in iOS. I'm careful to lock down everything and deny access to anything it doesn't need. I have multiple accounts with services like Google so nothing is tied back to a central identifiable account.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:53:50 pm
content: When you control access via the OS, it is presumed that the OS is indeed securing it. But, there are plenty of evidence out there that the OS is participating in the spying.Google and Microsoft have proven that they do not respect your privacy. Apple is an unknown yet.So, being the pessimist that I am, I just can't trust them to not peek into what I am doing.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 07:58:19 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 10, 2017, 06:12:24 pmYes but google links those when it sees you using them from the same ip. It doesn't say its doing this but it does. Only way is to log into each account through tor and don't start emailing the same people with the different accounts. Huge PITA though, it would be nice if you could just tell it not to do that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 08:13:40 pm
content: I suspect there are diminishing returns on efforts to increase privacy, there is only so far I'm willing to go. When it comes down to it any data they get from me is of little real value anyway since I'm not a typical consumer. I don't watch TV, I don't buy a lot of brand new stuff, I go out of my way to block advertisements and when I do want to buy something I do my research. I do make some effort to pollute my various online presence' with bogus and contradictory info and I lock down what I can, but it's only worth going just so far. If someone *really* wants data on anyone they'll find a way to get it.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 08:16:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 10, 2017, 08:13:40 pmThe NSA must love big data, think of what the KGB would have done with just facebooks data base alone, the are even in Dave Jones router!I have seen so many America documentaries about how law enforcement just looks up facebook to find the suspects, and often find the crime too! Lets put video evidence of our crimes on a public venue, brilliant idea.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 08:22:22 pm
content: Hey it's fine by me if idiots decide to post their crimes publicly on social media services. I loath facebook and haven't used it in years but I have no problem with law enforcement utilizing information that people actively and voluntarily share.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 08:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 10, 2017, 08:22:22 pmThe crime ring that withdrew $100,000's from manhattan atms got caught by putting pictures of themselves with huge wads of cash on face book. I guess they wanted to show off to the judge. They never caught the hackers in Ukraine though. They were smart enough to steal all those ATM #'s but hired complete idiots to finish the job. Like the first world trade center bombers got caught when one guy tried to get his security deposit back on the Ryder truck to upgrade his one way ticket from a child's seat to an adult seat to escape to Pakistan. For the price of an airline ticket they all got caught. I haven't rented a truck in a while but I'm pretty sure you won't get your security deposit back if you: 1. Smoke in the truck, 2. Don't bring back exactly how much gas was left in it, 3. Fill it with hundreds of kg's of explosives and blow it up.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 06:28:02 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 10, 2017, 08:16:56 pmYoutube is another good source of evidence, some genius round here posted video of himself doing doughnuts in a stolen car, along with a compilation video of a pile of weed, stolen sat navs and a revolver, my sister was in the team that raided his house and arrested him...