Change trace color on Keysight MSOX 2000 or other 200 MHz class scopes? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: drwho9437
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 08:02:34 am
content: Default colors on the Keysight MSOX2000 are not usable for me because I am color blind. I looked at the manual but see no reference if they can be changed?Anyone know?If you use a scope of similar spec to an MSOX2000 that has the ability to change the colors arbitrarily please let me know what it is.Thanks.

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 09:22:53 am
content: There's no software way to do it -- I believe it's hard coded in the ASICBut some guy did a mod where he switched around the rgb signals to the LCD and was able to get trace colors that were easier to distinguish.Pretty impressive mod. It's posted somewhere on this forum, I think.I also want to add that I am also color blind and can't see the difference between traces 1 and 2. But I have an MSOX 3000T and it's really not that much of a problem. Just wiggle the vertical position if you forget which trace is which. Also the traces are labeled with channel nymbers on the left.Better than my old analog 4-trace scope that is just ONE color!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 10:02:04 am
content: Quote from: drwho9437 on March 28, 2020, 08:02:34 amWhich colors can't you see ?Siglent channels use yellow, cyan, turquoise and green.The SDS2000X Plus and SDS5000X allow for each trace to be named although text is only in the color of the trace.A recent SDS5000X screenshot with 2, 3 and 4 labeled:

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 11:20:38 am
content: As I am member of thecolor vision deficiency clubI can admit, that the Siglent looks OK for me when looking on the screenshot.BUT ... the same applies to my Keysight. At the screenshot I can differentiate yellow and green easily.Though the real screen looks different. See below the comparision between screenshot and display appearance (photo). At the photo I do see only a slight difference but only because I know where each channel is positioned. In a real world usage I always try to avoid channel 2.Edit: This is nothing new but it seems it is just being ignored from the manufacturers: As every 10th male does have a color vision deficiency I don't understand why scopes does not have either individual color selection for each channel or (if problematic due to technical reasons/speed ) a least two or three fixed color setups to choose from.Maybe Daniel can comment on this?

author: drwho9437
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 07:23:31 pm
content: Pinkus: I'm in violent agreement with you. Its absurd. There are known colorblind safe color schemes! They have been known to map makers for a very long time. Given things are digital its trivial to change this if you put the hook in.I also agree I can just make out the difference between Ch1 and Ch4 on the Siglent screen.The best scope I have used for colorblindness is an RTO2000 which is what I now use at work (see my post from 2 years ago). It has RGB backlights on the channel buttons so that they match the color you select. Which is great. Please everyone steal this... Alas my work scope is worth about 50K list so I won't be getting it at home.I don't even care if the colors don't match the knobs, bury it in utility menu if you like vendors if you continue to insist on continuing to default to non-color blind safe schemes.LeCroys often can let you set colors. Perhaps even if it isn't in there now the firmware updates on the new Siglents will allow it given its a LeCroy derived interface.I'll probably get a Siglent 2000 plus and see if it looks okay in person. But Siglent if you are here somewhere: update the firmware if at all possible. There are a lot of different types of colorblindness and even if it works for me it might not work for someone else.The Siglent's menus and measurements look better than the comparable Keysight anyway and built in decodes... Looks like a nice package for low frequency general purpose use.Edit: PS on the Keysight screen shot I can just barely tell which is which and I can't tell at all on the photo. The Siglent difference is larger to my eyes in the screen shot (by a significant amount, I'll have my fingers crossed!, at least it is Ch4 and Ch1 and not 1 and 2).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 07:48:41 pm
content: drwho, how often do you need all 4 channels ?If you use ch2 and 3 (cyan and turquoise) they will each be on their own ADC and with full mem depth and sampling until you add one of the other channels.You mentioned SDS2kX Pus and of course the 100 MHz model is the cheapest but apparently they have been hacked to 350 and with the 2ch 500 MHz option. Sorta takes them out of the low frequency GP DSO range don't you think ?The screenshot I've posted comes from my hacked SDS5054X that is now the 5104 model and if midrange BW interests you more maybe look at the SDS5034X, the 350 MHz model.The UI in 5kX and 2kX Plus are very very similar and I've not significant found differences in them yet.Both work real nice using all 3 input methods of front panel, touch and mouse.If you use any active probes the 5kX might be the better option as Siglent are to produce adapters for both Tek and LeCroy active probes.

author: drwho9437
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 08:17:43 pm
content: That isn't a very relevant question. When its just an RGB value in some register no scope should be without letting you change the colors on the screen. There have been many times I wanted an 8 channel scope... Thankfully some now exist.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 08:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: drwho9437 on March 28, 2020, 08:17:43 pmIt is when we don't know your full requirements or scope experience. That you seem to have much more than the average newcomer is great.Just yell if you want further info.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 08:36:40 pm
content: Maybe this feature can be found on Tektronix scopes. The color versions of the TDS500/600/700 series allow to change any color in the UI. On many scopes it seems the colors are fixed to match the printing on the casing. Personally I would like a reversed color scheme (white background). Interestingly it is Tektronix which had that on the TDS210/TDS220 scopes (not that these are particulary good oscillosopes).

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 10:04:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2020, 08:36:40 pmThe newer Tek 4/5/6 Series scopes appear to allow each channel to freely choose from a palette of 48 colours.Quote from: drwho9437 on March 28, 2020, 08:17:43 pmThere is quite a bit more to it than a single value referenced somewhere, lots of "optimizations" work on the assumption of certain characteristics/restrictions of the trace colours. Much more complex than a user CSS override (which already shows the complexities of a modern ui).

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 10:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2020, 08:36:40 pmThey keysight U1620 also has different schemes. White background, black background and... Something else I forget. It's also only 2 channels but you can definitely get one of the three to work for the lighting.

author: drwho9437
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 12:31:40 am
content: Quote from: Someone on March 28, 2020, 10:04:29 pmI don't really buy the last statement but given that most scopes have Math and references traces they can at minimum allow you to swap among them, which is beside my main point: ignoring a large fraction of users when it is well known how to make color blind safe schemes...https://colorbrewer2.org/This isn't hard. We aren't talking about making all intensities work perfectly we are talking about making the base function of the instrument. If it wasn't important we would all be using black and white displays still.I'm going to keep my comments from this post on to if I can tell the difference between colors if anyone proposes another scope, but there are lots of scopes that do allow colors to be changed, typically my experience is they have been mostly high end analysis scopes. I think the S-Series Keysights allow it, some LeCroys...

author: drwho9437
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 12:32:56 am
content: @maginnovisionThe first one is impossible, the 2nd and 3rd both work but I like the 2nd better just for contrast reasons.Thanks.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 01:00:31 am
content: I've used it in all display modes but 2 is the main mode I use it in.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 02:10:24 am
content: Quote from: drwho9437 on March 29, 2020, 12:31:40 amYou're a minority of the market, the scope does its function just fine for the vast majority of users. The top end of the X series product line has a colour grading/histogram mode but it only works on a single channel and has limitations.You have most of the answer already, math trace on magnify mode with 1:1 scaling. Kills the intensity grading but lets you reassign any one of the channels to pink.

author: drwho9437
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 04:11:14 am
content: Certainly in the minority of course but most companies would love to gain 5-10% of a market.There is no downside to not having this issue for anyone save for the small amount of work to pick a colorblind safe color pallet.There is no reason support the status quo. The cost to provide instruments where it is taken into account is minimal. Whatever companies elect to do it first will gain market share. I have selected 100s of thousands of dollars of test equipment, probably millions over the last 10 years and I'm just 1 colorblind engineer.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 04:15:19 am
content: Well there are plenty of scopes which allow you to choose waveform color, generally for intensity grading purposes. The newer R&S have fire, Temperature and Rainbow.

author: ADT123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 05:57:41 am
content: I have a bias towards PC oscilloscopes (see disclaimer) and most of them have flexibility in colors and in the case of PicoScopes also line thickness. We added these features perhaps 20 years ago at the request of the RNIB a UK charity that supports those who are visually impaired.I do not mind letting our competitors know that we have sold quite a few oscilloscopes because of this feature - its something all scopes on sale should offer.