toroid winding Ideas - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 02:19:13 pm
content: Hi,Recently I have designed a SMPS design, and my customer wanted to build 200 units of it, the problem is that I have lot's of toroids in my design with various sizes small and bigger ones like FM10 to FM40 cores, I want to know the best and cheapest way of winding toroid ? is there any open source machine or project out there? what about the commercial machines? do you have any idea about the principle operation of these machines?

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 02:39:20 pm
content: Not sure if this is a realistic solution for you, but it looks like fun to try. At least you can see the principle of how a winding machine could work.http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-Toroidal-Coil-Winder/

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 03:11:48 pm
content: Thanks, but the PDF's with blue prints are removed from the site, also is it viable to pass something big containing the whole wire spool inside the core!? I mean the FM10 core is only 1cm in diameter, and I need to turn wide wires inside it, you have seen lots of similar toroids with big chunky amps rating already in your mother board.Also there is not enough pictures and info to tell us how it actually works

author: Mjolinor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 03:16:35 pm
content: 200 is enough for you to go to China and have them made.I have done this in the past and have no complaints about the quality or any other aspect of the job.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 03:25:46 pm
content: Thanks,any links in china would be appreciated!But also I wanted to know how those machines works?

author: Mjolinor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 03:33:36 pm
content: No links but I am sure Alibaba will get you some with a few minutes searching.The machines work by doing what you would do if you did it by hand, they pass the coil through the toroid which is why you are better letting someone else do it.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 05:04:37 pm
content: The concept of the machine is simple, You have 2 arcs, who make a well, Your core is also a circle, You connect the 2 arcs closing the well, Will be "like a chain", after that you load the wire on the wheel, and unload on you core rotating the wheel

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 07:50:08 pm
content: http://mac-s-power.com/Electronics-Custom-Tooling_c2.htm

author: orolo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 07:57:50 pm
content: I've read somewhere than, when Apple was starting, their computer power supply toroids were wound at home by people as an additional source of income. Since these toroids you're describing have few turns and thick wire, I don't think one needs special hardware to build them, just a little training and planification. So you could consider hiring a few people for the job, give them the materials and a little training, and that's it. If a toroid is wound in five minutes, worst case, that's about 16 man-hours per 200 toroids. Hire a few people looking for manual, part-time job, and you'll have your toroids in a week or so.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 07:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on November 01, 2017, 05:04:37 pmI don't think this addresses the picture in Reply #2 above. If anyone has tried to "unwind" those toroids the wire is so thick that you practically have to cut it to get it off. It's not going to get wound on from a spool.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2017, 10:11:13 pm
content: Here is one for power transformers with the operator showing the process. Most videos go so fast you can't really see anything.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 02:12:21 am
content: https://youtu.be/ZCLZ3NGX7ME

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 03:14:25 am
content: Hi,There is another type of toroid winder that is much simpler and probably better for a small number of turns of heavy wire.You have an air cylinder, mounted vertically, with a chuck attached the plunger. In the chuck there is a hook to pull the wire. Then you need a support for the core. The air plunger is operated with a foot switch. The hook is polished to protect the wire.Here is a picture of one that I found on the internet:This could be simplified, especially the holder for the toroid.Typical air cylinder:Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 04:30:53 am
content: Had a few of these where I worked once. They are way more suitable for toroid with only a few turns of relatively thick wire.http://www.gormanmachine.com/hustler.htmThe other machines people have posted are more suitable for many turns of thinner wire.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 04:39:30 am
content: Why did you design for custom toroids? There are many THT and SMT parts available in every imaginable value and size, and even a fair selection of multiple winding inductors.Tim

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 05:15:41 am
content: Just because is available to you, does not mean is available to everybody, There are 195 countries in the world, and is sure that most of them do not have those parts easily available.Information is always a good thing even if you don't need.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 08:33:42 am
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on November 02, 2017, 03:14:25 amI have visions of getting a finger caught in that nasty looking hook

author: Mjolinor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 09:08:52 am
content: QuoteI didn't think of that immediately but it is a properFour pints please

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 11:19:10 am
content: Thanks guys,QuoteI have designed the SMPS with custome cores for price reasons, also I do not have access to all the parts, and because toroids are heavy and relatively cheap, transportation cost in most times is the cost driving factor,I think Jay_Diddy_B your machine looks promissing, but I do not get it how it work fully, would you explain more? or do you have any video?

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 11:40:44 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on November 02, 2017, 11:19:10 amFollow this link, provided by Circlotron in this reply:Quote from: Circlotron on November 02, 2017, 04:30:53 amThere is a video and a pdf of the machine.The machine I used was a simplified version of this. It had a table with a 'V' slot for the toroid. The air cylinder pulls down, there was a spring for the return. The toroid was rotated by hand.Jay_Diddy_B

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 01:31:41 pm
content: ThanksI wonder how full automated machines work? for example how mother board manufacturers produce their toroids! this machine is semi manual, It need some human interaction along every single turn

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 04:58:18 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on November 02, 2017, 11:19:10 amBut I mean, you did this design without having found an actual source for the parts? No manufacturer, not even a quote or samples? You're just now figuring out the cost of making them?Tim

author: ballanux
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2017, 07:13:50 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on November 02, 2017, 01:31:41 pmFor manufacturers in China probably is only semi-automated but it would be interesting to see how brands like Würth produce their toroids, specially common mode chokes. I have seen this but only shows cylindrical inductors:https://youtu.be/YD4TJXSw59I?t=1m59s

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2017, 02:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on November 02, 2017, 04:58:18 pmIndeed, unless you're manufacturing a huge volume, it's always cheaper to design the circuit to use standard parts, than custom ones. It may seem cheaper at the time, but it works out more expensive, when it actually comes to making it.