Logitech Unifying Wireless Keyboards, intermitent keys/mouse FIX (use USB 2.0) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cmdr. ZiN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:43:46 am
content: I noticed on the last Saturday morning's stream Dave was having troubles with his Logitech keyboards.I too have had this issue, my keyboard used to be fine but started dropping out at some point (after abare bones PC upgrade, it turned out ).I thought it was inteference as it wasn't poor signal due to range, because even very close the issue presented.It does the same thing on multiple PCs, I have a K400r.I did some looking around on the net and people were saying it was the USB 3.0 type A ports, I put it back into my old USB ports (2.0 I believe) and it worked just fine on multiple PCs.People were saying something to do with the frequency on USB 3.0 interfering with the signal.I always planned to look into this more to verify the exact cause, but as it was now working just fine it wasn't high on my list of things to do.I'd find it a very interesting video, to open one up and look and the frequencies and EM radiation put off by the dongle.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:51:21 am
content: I've seen this when a USB 3.x device (like flash drive) was plugged into a nearby port which had a poorly shielded wiring or crappy PCB. Plugging the receiver itself into USB 3.x port should not cause any issues since the port will operate in USB 2.0 mode anyway and additional wires will remain unused. If your receiver has troubles on multiple computers, likely the receiver or the keyboard is faulty. Or there was an interference source which was present in all cases you had the problem.

author: Cmdr. ZiN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 10:06:07 am
content: No other devices were plugged in near by, if there were any I would of unplugged them for testing anyway.Also I tried on an extension cable, same thingwithif I plugged it into 3.0 and fixed when I plugged it into the non-3.0 ports.I also just now recalled I had the same issue with my bluetooth dongle for my PS4 controllers.This was unplugged during testing, the PS4 controllers weren't so much intermittent but the latency was spiking.I'm assuming something about the internal electronic frequency of USB 3.0 isn't filtered correctly inside the device.When they were designed 3.0 didn't exist so something probably wasn't accounted for, this is one of the reasons though most MOBOs still have legacy ports.Still I never got to the bottom of it as now it's working perfectly, it was always one of those things I was curious about researching more in the future.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 10:33:36 am
content: Quote from: Cmdr. ZiN on November 15, 2021, 10:06:07 amThere is no "USB 3.0" frequency when device operates in 2.0 mode. Even different wires within the port are used. Also IME Logitech unifying receivers work just fine in USB 3.x ports.QuoteIt did exist, unifying receivers are not that old. And even if they did not, and had the problem, they would be redesigned.https://ir.logitech.com/press-releases/press-release-details/2009/Logitech-Unifying-Receiver-Eliminates-Need-for-Multiple-Wireless-Receivers-for-Keyboards-and-Mice/default.aspx

author: Cmdr. ZiN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:05:14 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 15, 2021, 10:33:36 amMy K400r came out in 2011, "the first certified USB 3.0 consumer products were announced on 5 January 2010, at the Las Vegas Consumer Electronics Show (CES), including two motherboards by Asus and Gigabyte Technology". Design would of started for my keyboard before 2011 and if you remember back then, 3.0 wasn't ubiquitous.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0Yes, I'm well aware designs for USB specs are being fleshed out years before consumer release, but my point was they were designing a USB 2.0 product and they probably didn't take USB 3.0 into account.I'm not claiming to know the exact cause, I'm claiming to have experienced the issue and to know a solution.I was as surprised as you by the results and would love to know the reason why this is the case.I posted this to try and help some people, lets please be constructive.I'm happy to answer any questions, if there's something you think it might be that you'd like to test.Just becuase you haven't encountered the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist.I'm not the only one with this issue, many people have encountered it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:19:33 am
content: QuoteYet you completely ignored what I wrote about 3.x port operation in 2.0 mode or your device possibly be faulty. I explicitly explained why there is "no 3.0 frequency" in 2.0 mode. It's not even possible to transfer faster signals over the wires used in 2.0 mode, and another 5 wires used for faster data transfer are irrelevant as they are not even connected in this case.

author: Cmdr. ZiN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:32:04 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 15, 2021, 11:19:33 amI didn't ignore you I wrote "I'm not claiming to know the exact cause, I'm claiming to have experienced the issue and to know a solution.I was as surprised as you by the results and would love to know the reason why this is the case."The devices plural are not faulty, they work fine in USB 2.0 ports that they were designed for. I don't know why.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:37:43 am
content: At no time I said you have no issue. I said that the reasons you suspect are not in play here.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:46:36 am
content: The fact that device works in other ports does not necessarily mean it's OK. It may also mean that it is marginally operating and a small change in conditions may make it work fine or fail. IMHO the problem is not plugging into USB 3.0 port as such, however there may be some difference hardware implementations that makes the problem apparent. It may even be that where particular port is located is what makes the difference.

author: Cmdr. ZiN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:57:23 am
content: 2 separate devices, 2 separate PCs and they work fine on USB 2.0 and intermittently on USB 3.0 doesn't sound like a defective product to me.Could be something wrong with the design of early USB 2.0 bluetooth dongles that's been improved apon since.I can't think of what it could be only what people online have been guessing at.Still there's no guarantee Dave's issue is this issue but if he's got it plugged into a USB 3.0 port I wouldn't be surprised.He would of been using them fine up until he got a better PC.I'd be very curious to see if this solves it for him, and if it doesn't work for him, it'll work for some others.This has worked for many people online.I've only moved them from one port to another next to it and that solved the issue.It's got to be something to do with the differences between USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 because I've ruled everything else out that I can think of.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 06:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 15, 2021, 10:33:36 amIt could be some kind of issue on the USB host port implementation.It is not uncommon for USB 1.1 devices (USB 2.0 low and full speed, 1 Mbit/s and 12 Mbit/s) to just not work when plugged in to an USB 3.0 port, but work fine when plugged into an USB 2.0 hub plugged in to that same port, or directly to an USB 2.0 port on that or any other machine.Now, how on Earth that can happen is a mystery to me, but I've seen it in real life on a HP Pavilion x360 with ATmega32u4. That ATmega32u4 worked fine on at least a dozen other machines, so I do not believe it was the device's fault. It does have a native USB interface, not an USB-to-UART converter.

author: Cmdr. ZiN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 04:31:22 am
content: Yeah something like that is probably more likely.I guess that's just the way of old devices.