10nm chips? How many atoms per transistor? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 01:15:26 pm
content: Is that the limit of thing where uncertainty starts to take over? Where will things go when you can't go smaller? 3d chips? Whats the min number of atoms to make a transistor?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 10:12:52 pm
content: FWIW, an atom is about 0.2nm across, give or take.Tim

author: srce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 08:49:32 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on May 17, 2018, 01:15:26 pmOne. It was done a few years ago.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 09:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 17, 2018, 10:12:52 pmHow much space is there between atoms? That is to say, how may atoms side by side to make up 10nm?

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 09:31:53 pm
content: Quote from: srce on May 18, 2018, 08:49:32 pmHow? it must have all kinds of supporting circuitry. An atom really only has a ground state and a few oxidation states. Don't see how you could make a transistor that relies on the flow of electricity for that. That also doesn't seem practical more like a science experiment.I know around 50 atoms the size is dominated by uncertainty and you can't rely on it behaving like its supposed to because of tunneling.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2018, 02:48:41 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on May 18, 2018, 09:24:37 pmNone, that's the average radius when stacked up in a crystal or stuck together in a molecule. For more info, check out: atomic bond length, silicon lattice constant, diamond cubic crystal structure, and so on.So, we're talking a fraction of a million atoms in one of these transistors, give or take. (Remember 10nm is the feature size, while a transistor is a few feature-sizes across. The thickness or height can be less, however.)Tim

author: mac.6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 04:16:05 pm
content: remember that 10nm is not the size of the transistor, but the size of the minimal feature.Things are pretty complicated when comparing different node/factory processes.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2018, 06:16:25 pm
content: Silicon, for example, forms a dimond cubic crystal structure; which means it has a repeating pattern of cells that look like this:The side of such a cube is 0.54 nm. (As one can see, the shortest distance between two atoms is smaller than that though.)

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2018, 03:48:37 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 22, 2018, 06:48:25 pmInteresting..but why? Because it's all the investors understand?But from a technical standpoint, why can't they pinpoint the actual feature size?

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2018, 08:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 23, 2018, 05:41:06 amNice. So hypothetically we might actually be at an 18nm, but the investors we'll think we're at "10nm"?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2018, 10:30:58 pm
content: If what the investors get told is only approximately the truth, is one company’s investor “10nm” the same as another company’s investor “10nm” ?

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2018, 04:00:33 pm
content: Some doping agents in silicon are as little as 1/1,000,000. That would become a problem when working with 20 silicon crystal cubes as shown above and very hardtop control. To think at one point vacuum tubes were fiddley small to make.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2018, 04:13:55 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on May 26, 2018, 04:00:33 pmI remember reading about nanoscale vacuum tubes. What came of those?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2018, 06:22:41 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 26, 2018, 04:13:55 pmNo one's figured out cathode wear. Seems when you apply enough energy to rip electrons out, sometimes the atoms come too.Tim