Choosing a vacuum desoldering gun/station - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 01:17:13 am
content: Hi everyone,I've been through every single one of the 200+ threads that turn up when searching this subforum for "desoldering", but with little luck answering this question.Like so many else I've recently come to the conclusion that I should get a proper desoldering unit. I have however quite some trouble choosing which one. Most threads about this quickly go into Hakko 808 mode and stay there. The problem is that not only do I think that the 808 is outside my budget, I also can't find a single one for sale. Much less the 220V version which I gather is rarer.My needs are at an enthusiast level. I usually keep any electronics parts that look promising and throw in a box for later perusal and desoldering. And then I do a big race where I spend a few hours desoldering everything that looks good at once. So I wouldn't need top quality, I won't be using it every week. But if I can get something that is quicker, less troublesome and can be used for extended periods in one go without breaking down that will obviously save me a bit of time.Basically I could spend a bit of money on this, but to quote Dave, I'm a bit of a tightarse (to the point that being one is considered the typical characteristic of people from this part of Sweden). I do however like quality equipment that do the job well which is why I spent a good deal of money on a quality multimeter for example. Seeing as the multimeter is one of the most important tools. On the other hand I have a really cheap ebay soldering/hot air station that cost something like $80-100 including vat and which I'm reasonably happy with except for the thermal capacity which is enough and barely that. If I can get away with $150 I'm happy and I would much prefer not to spend more than $200.So far I've concluded that the really good brands, like Hakko, Pace and a few other that have cropped up are either a bit outside what I would really want to spend or in holy cows!-land. More than once tonight I have searched for a new model I read about only to find out it costs $700+.So, excluding all the really expensive stuff I have compiled this list of models. And I would very much like to hear some ideas on which one would be best. Please note that there may be better prices available, these are the ones I have found. Suggestions about stores, preferably in EU, very welcome.Guns (i.e. self contained units like the 808)S-993A, cost about $100 from eu, including vat.Seems to work alright according to review videos. But looks a bit flimsy.S-998P, costs about $125 from china (which might add 25% vat) or $175 from eu, including vat.This one looks quite close to the 808 and like the 993 it seems to work alright based on videos. Probably worth the extra money over the 993.Aoyue 8800, costs about $195 from eu, including vat.Looks suspiciously much like a 998. Also seems to work pretty well based on videos. Not sure if Aoyue branding actually adds any value over the 998.Hakko FR-300, costs about $280 and 25% vat may very well be added on top of that.The successor to the 808 as I gather. Assume it is a Hakko and performs as such. That price though.Stations (i.e. with all the heavy stuff in a bench unit)ZD-915, costs about $100 from eu, including vat.Not to sure about this one. Not much info and one thread mentioned that it was quite inferior to the 985.ZD-985, costs about $140 from eu, including vat.Famously reviewed by Dave of course. Quality doesn't seem to be the best but it did perform very well. This is the one I am currently leaning towards. Seems to me like it is easily worth the cost over the 915 at least.Aoyue 474A++, costs about $170 from eu, including vat.On the surface this one looks far better than the 985. But there isn't all that much info available. A few reviews but nothing like the quality that Dave does for the 985 so it is hard to compare. Also I don't like the buttons it looks like it is using. In my experience they can wear out fast. Unless someone can confirm that it is using regular tactile switches rather than the metal coated plastic dome type of course.All ideas and comments welcome, except possibly for the suggestion to buy an 808 unless you also include a link where one can be bought. :-)Cheers

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 02:04:02 am
content: I have a FR-300 and recommend it. (But be careful about the small included "stand": it is nowhere near heavy enough to dissipate the heat of the tip. If you set it down after use it can burn your desktop). In the US they cost $270, but I bought mine barely used on eBay for about $200+shipping. You should also factor in the consumables (filters, chambers, tips) and whether they are available and how long they last.Here's a video comparison of the FR-300 and S-993A:

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 02:22:52 am
content: I got a used Pace MP-1, micro portable desoldering station with Solder XTractor. Prices vary quite a bit, but can be had for around $100. It works well for typical THT removal tasks and, since it's portable, doesn't take up a lot of bench space. It can be powered from AC or 12VDC.Sometimes I wish that the cable+hose was longer.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 02:33:48 am
content: Quote from: jonatanrullman on November 04, 2016, 01:17:13 amYou can buy the Duratool version of the ZD-915 from Farnell:http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/desoldering-station-uk-eu-plug/dp/SD01384Also, before you buy a discontinued Hakko or Pace model, be sure you can get replacement parts (hint: you probably can't).

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 03:43:41 am
content: I have an Aoyue 701A which is a Gun / Iron combination. It takes standard Hakko parts everywhere except the tips and I made an adapter to use Hakko tips on it.It was cheap and the pump required a strip and rebuild to really perform well. Hakko filters & tips made a huge difference. I'm happy with it and all in I'd have spent less than $250 on it including genuine tips & filters. A few hours in tuning up and making the tip adapter though, so if your time is valuable you'd be better off starting from a few rungs up the ladder.I used a nice Pace unit, and a Hakko all in 1 gun back at one of my previous jobs. I prefer the separate unit to the all in 1, but personal preference.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 05:38:57 am
content: I have the ZD-985 and it works well for what it is. Practice on bad boards as it is easy, with any of the above tools, to lift pads. I almost never lift a pad now as I practiced quite a bit on defective boards. Care in using will help keep the tip and gun from getting clogged. Make sure that you keep the pump working for a moment after you lift off a component lead. You can block the gun before you realize it. The last time I blocked the gun up, I had to increase the temp to max and work the cleaning rod vigorously to get the gun clean.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 05:58:17 am
content: QuoteYes, there is a definite technique that you need to use. Going by the Hakko instructions (although they all work the same way):1. place the tip over the lead to be desoldered and gently push it down until the tip touches the pad (you need to be directly perpendicular to the board so that pad contact occurs on all sides)2. begin moving the tip in a circle around the pad, pushing the lead all around so that solder is melted throughout the hole3. depress the trigger, and hold it while continuing to move in a circle for 1-2 seconds4. with the trigger still depressed, lift the tip away from the pad, and let the trigger go 1 second laterThere is no hard and fast rule for the times, that's just an estimate. It takes about 5 seconds to do each lead. After you've desoldered all your leads, use the cleaning tool to keep the vacuum path free and clean of any oxides. You can also use a brass wool material like the Hakko 599 to keep the outside of the tip clean of oxides. Stabbing the gun into it is awkward due to the size but won't damage anything.The problem GreyWoolfe mentions where solder freezes inside the tip is a problem with older designs that are not heated all the way back to the collection chamber. Newer designs from Hakko and Pace (and probably others) fixed that so it's much less likely.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 07:03:52 am
content: The idea of running the pump and moving the lead is to cool the lead down below the melting point of the solder. That way the residual coating of solder doesn't stick the lead back to the joint.I really don't like the gun style. I have a Hakko 472D-01 (the wand style one) and it's great, but I'm pretty much done with Hakko. They've replaced it with the FR-410, which is currently selling for $1000...about double the price. Nothing is compatible with the 472, and they only support consumable for 5 years after discontinuing a product (and replacement parts only 3 years). There was nothing wrong with the 472. Very disappointed, to be honest.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 08:20:58 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 04, 2016, 05:47:43 amIf you need to desolder something like DIP IC on the board on 2+ layer board with metalized holes, solder wick sucks (and not solder). Of course you can cut all of the leads, then desolder them one by one, and only then remove the solder with solder wick, but part gets destroyed. Also there are parts where you cannot access the leads to cut them off, like relays.

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 08:45:53 am
content: I have from cheap Duratool and Aoyue to expensive Weller, Hakko and JBC.JBC is the best but there isn't big difference as in price. So I truly recommend cheap tools too.

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 02:32:20 pm
content: Wow. That's a lot of answers over night. Would love to hear more opinions about the units not mentioned so far.Does anyone have an opinion about gun vs. station? I recon that guns probably suck better but are less ergonomic. But then again, the 985 Dave tried didn't have much of a problem with suction so perhaps that is kind of moot.Quote from: helius on November 04, 2016, 02:04:02 amThanks. I don't think there is much hesitation about the quality of that device, but I wonder if it is worth the extra money. Must say I'm a bit more sceptical about Hakko based on what edavid and John said below though.Quote from: bitseeker on November 04, 2016, 02:22:52 amDoesn't seem like many Pace available this side of the pond at all. Then again, it is pretty hard to do proper regional searches for equipment for sale other than eBay. Worth having a look for but I think I'm going to have an easier time with something I can buy new, if only for the availability.Quote from: edavid on November 04, 2016, 02:33:48 amExcellent, better than ebay at least. Do you have any experience of it?Oh, didn't see that one coming. I assumed they cared more than that. John is onto the same thing below. Buyer beware then I guess.Quote from: BradC on November 04, 2016, 03:43:41 amInteresting. Looks like the 474A++ with a soldering iron and fume extraction. Do you feel that the fume extraction works well and is not in the way? Or perhaps it can be removed for tighter jobs. How is the thermal capacity? That and fume extraction are the only two reasons I'm thinking about replacing my current iron.Quote from: blueskull on November 04, 2016, 05:47:43 amThat is a fair question. I guess it is a matter of how much value I can salvage and the effort required to do it. Since it seems like it will become quite a bit more expensive than I had originally planned I think I will do well to consider that one more time.Quote from: John Coloccia on November 04, 2016, 07:03:52 amThat is very worrying. Used Hakko seems less like a viable alternative than I thought, even when ignoring the prices.Quote from: vzoole on November 04, 2016, 08:45:53 amAny particular Duratool model you have used and can recommend?Cheers

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 04:29:32 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 04, 2016, 05:47:43 amI have 2 different sizes of solder wick, Chemtronics, not crap. Sometimes it's just easier to use the gun, especially larger leaded components on large pads. Also, if there is a lot of TH desoldering to do, desoldering guns are easier to use.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 09:18:28 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on November 04, 2016, 02:33:48 amYou can get the (apparently) slightly superior Proskit version from the main Farnell site rather than it's CPC subsidiary (go figure). Here's a recent relevant thread...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/decent-desoldering-ironstation/

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 11:18:27 pm
content: Interesting - if you can believe Farnell, the Duratool version of the ZD915 has an 80W heater, while the Pro'skit version is 140W!

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 02:31:53 am
content: Got me a zd 915 and I think it is well worth the € 65,- I paid at the time.Cons are so far:The fan is annoyingly loud when I turn on the station. Just for a couple of seconds, though. I heard, it's a 12v fan running at 18v. Might swap it at some point.The stand is made for some gun, but not for the zd one. Got used to it, but maybe will replace it.Could not get cheap filter pads so far.Pros:Works good for the price!I would buy it again for the price.There are some youtube videos on the zd 915.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 10:43:59 am
content: @edavid:I suspect the 140W figure might be the maximum mains consumption. The element is indeed 80W.@daybyter:The thread link in my previous reply includes fan replacement details, very cheap and easy as you can use an ebay 3d printer fan - well worth doing for your sanity! Both Farnell and CPC sell the filters, it depends on your definition of "cheap", but they're not bad. Edit: they also have replement tips, elements and complete guns.

author: OZ1LQB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 12:31:36 pm
content: Hi.I have a ZD915 for 5 years and i am still happy with it.BUT if you do bye it or its bigger brother do buy a handful of tipsbecause in this nasty new leadless solder they do not last for a long timewould i buy it again if the old one broke..Surre i wouldDaybyter: in germany you can get filters cheap herehttp://komerci.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=914&cPath=24_45&osCsid=586188dafdee1f6de79d2dcdab117986All the best from Claus In Denmark

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 11:56:31 pm
content: Quote from: jonatanrullman on November 04, 2016, 02:32:20 pmhttp://uk.farnell.com/proskit-industries/ss-331bc-f/desoldering-station-60w-240v-eu/dp/2320603?ost=proskit&selectedCategoryId=&categoryId=700000006467&searchView=table&iscrfnonsku=false

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 03:52:30 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on November 05, 2016, 01:04:44 pmThere are a few models being sold by US vendors:Aoyue 474A+ (or a clone?) - CSI $109 + shiphttps://www.circuitspecialists.com/Compact_Desoldering_System.htmlAoyue 474A++ - SRA $145 + shiphttp://www.sra-solder.com/aoyue-474a-digital-desoldering-stationAoyue 8800 - SRA $180 + shiphttp://www.sra-solder.com/aoyue-8800-self-contained-desoldering-gun-with-internal-vacuum-pump-and-carrying-case-120v-acZhongdi ZD-915 - MPJA $120 + ship, currently out of stock - 90 day warrantyhttp://www.mpja.com/Desoldering-Station-for-Circuit-Repair-ZD-915/productinfo/19034+TLZhongdi ZD-985 - Memotronics $150 + ship - 6 mo warrantyhttp://www.memotronics.com/vacuum-desoldering-rework-station-digital-temperature-controlled-dual-lcd-newAlso, note that Zoro sells the Hakko FR-300 for $289, so when they have a 30% off coupon out, that's only $202.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 05:41:00 pm
content: Interesting that there are so many different variants.The Proskit and Duratool have the tube as part of the element, not the tip. As shown inhttp://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=127547.This probably keeps the tube hotter and prevents clogging.Also the solder collection spring is an open coil design that extends the whole length of the GLASS collection tube. There is an aluminium plate that protects the filter from direct contact with the solder (it goes between the spring and the filter). Pictures in:http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?p=836766I'm not sure how this ties in with Aoyue, Hakko etc. variants.Edit: Reading through the second link again, it's possible that the cheaper Duratool has changed to the conical spring type.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 11:50:19 pm
content: The design issues with the FR-300 were fixed, current production doesn't have those problems (some issues with the motor diaphragm apparently)..

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 12:41:56 am
content: When I bought my unit, it was just after they changed the design from the old Hakko based one to something they came up with themselves. The Hakko based design had the tube in the heater, so if it clogged you had a problem. Aoyue modified it so the tip and tube was one piece. Unfortunately they also decided that the best way to prevent a clog was to have a tip and tube that solder didn't stick to, so you couldn't tin the tips. That severely impeded their usefulness.Fast forward a year or so and I bought some Hakko tips and made up an adapter. I also ordered some new tips from SRA. When the new tips arrived they had been plated differently and could be tinned. So they actually work ok. Having said that, the Hakko tips have nicer ends and better plating.So my questions for you if you please could comment:Quote from: evb149 on November 06, 2016, 04:46:59 pmIn 5 years I've had 3 clogs of which one was "difficult" to clear (by that I mean I had to use the supplied drill bit to clean out the pipe). Everything else has given way to a quick poke with the cleaning rod that comes with the iron. I don't have problems with them at all, even when doing lead free stuff.Quote from: evb149 on November 06, 2016, 04:46:59 pmI have a lathe.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aoyue-desoldering-tips/msg534046/#msg534046Quote from: evb149 on November 06, 2016, 04:46:59 pmI love it. It sees a lot of use and I really don't worry about clogs. Like I said above, I've had a couple and only one severe one.Quote from: evb149 on November 06, 2016, 04:46:59 pmFirst thing I did was replace the whole tube assembly with a Hakko genuine. I also replaced both filters with Hakko filters. They filter better and flow better.The biggest thing I did was dismantle the pump and re-assemble it with a smear of neutral cure silicone on all gasket surfaces. That doubled the pumps ultimate suction. It leaked like a sieve from the factory.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 10:06:01 am
content: BTW, a good way of clearing clogs is to run a close fitting length of tinned copper wire down the tube. The standard cleaning rods are steel and not very thermally conductive. Running copper wire down transfers heat to the clogged area much better (take that into account when holding the wire!). Using a wire that has been cut with bevel cutters helps too, so that it has a chisel shaped end.Second tip: desolder with the board held vertically and the gun held horizontally. Nose down operation casuses removed solder to fall back onto the end of the tube.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 08:19:39 pm
content: Quote from: evb149 on November 06, 2016, 05:52:07 amBTW, you can buy the Proskit model from Farnell element 14's US cousin, Newark element14...http://www.newark.com/proskit-industries/ss-331bc-f/rework-station-480-c-240-v/dp/55X2177It also lists spares that you might be able to use to modify or improve the other models.Edit: You probably want to contact them thought as it shows it as a 240V model.

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2016, 01:27:07 pm
content: Thanks for all the help everyone.Thought I'd add a few comments about how my purchase went for anyone who comes after.In the end I went with a ZD-915 (almost). It seemed to me like the gun type units was more expensive, cumbersome and didn't add much value in all. They also seemed far more expensive/less possible to repair than a station. Which is always nice when buying chinese crap.I was leaning towards the 985 because it had more reviews. But I finally decided between them simply by checking a few things on Zhongdis website, which cleared everything up nicely. If you check the product info for the 915 and 985, which are both on the same page, you will find that the only difference in spare parts is the gun, which has ha sleep feature on the 985.Possibly there are minor differences on the inside but since both use the same heating element and have the same vacuum pressure it does appear that the sleep feature is the only difference. Why buy another transformer and vacuum pump when you can just buy twice as many of the same, probably at a better price.After looking around a bit I decided the 985 wasn't worth the cost (about $40 extra) and I instead bought a Solder Peak SP-1010DR from tme.eu. This is quite clearly just a rebranded 915. It was slightly more expensive, about $10, but for those extra bucks I got it delivered with UPS and it was in black instead of the ugly beige color of the original. It was also the ESD version (I have checked with a multimeter) which the eBay one didn't claim to be (but possibly was anyway).I thought I'd make a new thread for this particular device with some photos and such. If anyone comes here in the future have a look for that thread if you are interested. Also, hello from the past.Cheers