More Free Energy BS (Flywheel Generators)   - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 01:29:59 am
content: <sigh> Yes it is (BS).The power you draw from the generator comes from the rotational inertia of the flywheel.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 01:30:24 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 01:00:24 amWhat is "optimal interval"?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 01:37:50 am
content: It's fun to play with "what if" scenarios, but it's nothing more than that...it's just goofy, meaningless fun. Basically you're asking, "What do the laws of physics predict if we completely ignore the laws of physics?" You can't just toss out the laws you don't like because the rest of them no longer make any sense.

author: Ryano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 01:44:31 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 01:41:48 amReal life scenario..... The laws of physics win.There is going to some friction in all of those systems, so they will slow down. Same as the Earth does. All that and we still haven't connected a load to produce any useful work.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 01:49:03 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 01:41:48 amIn real life, the machine stops.

author: Ryano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 01:51:36 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 01:45:26 amSorry.... We've had one too many new posters coming in here with "Free Energy" dreams and not grasping basic concepts when explained in slow detail.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 02:02:21 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 01:45:26 amNo worries. I meant that as a serious answer. I talk to people about stuff like this all the time, and they want to know things like, "What if you could travel faster than the speed of light?" OK, well you CAN'T travel faster than the speed of light (let's ignore the remote possibility that tachyons exist...then we'd have to ask what they would be like if they could travel SLOWER than the speed of light).So how do you even begin to answer that question? Just think for a minute of the consequences to physics as we know it if the laws of physics underwent the required changes to allow accelerating past light speed. NOTHING would work right anymore. So it really becomes an impossible question to answer, or perhaps more to the point, gets back to "what would the laws of physics be like if we ignore the laws of physics?"See, it really was a very serious answer that I've spent a good deal of time thinking about!

author: Ryano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 02:06:56 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 30, 2015, 02:02:21 amAKA.... We wouldn't be around to even think about such things!

author: djQUAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 02:18:18 am
content: Pulsing it to maintain its speed will require a higher power pulse to sustain losses and the load.It would be just like charging a cap using PWM and the cap maintains output to have a continuous DC current/voltage. You'd still need to have a high peak input current to maintain the average output.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 02:49:20 am
content: I'm not sure if you have quite grasped it yet, but the rotor doesn't slow down because of friction, it slows down because it is a generator. For instance, suppose you feed 1 MW into the rotor for 1000 seconds and speed it up from stationary to 30,000 rpm (say). Ignoring losses, the rotor is now storing an energy of 1 MW x 1000 seconds = 1 GJ.Let's say you now draw 1 MW out of the rotor for 1000 seconds. You have now withdrawn an energy of 1 GJ, which is the energy you put in to start with. So if you now look at the rotor the speed will be zero again, it will be stationary. It will have given up all its stored energy.Energy storage devices are like a bank. Whatever you take out you have to put in to begin with, and if you take everything out there is nothing left.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 02:52:55 am
content: Quote from: IanB on June 30, 2015, 02:49:20 amWell put.I would add "Energy storage devices are like a bank without interest."And sometimes fees... Friction, heat loss, etc.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 02:55:43 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 02:28:11 amYou're free to propose whatever made up physics you'd like, and we can all have fun thinking through the consequences, but don't be surprised when your little tweaks change things so fundamentally that it no longer makes sense to ask the questions you want to ask.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 03:06:42 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 03:05:00 amAbsolutely.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 03:19:09 am
content: Do you have any cheap, brushed DC motors laying around? Here's something to try. Spin it by hand. Now short out the leads and spin it again. You'll find it's much hard to pin with the leads shorted out.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 04:15:32 am
content: Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 03:05:00 amThat's almost exactly how "regenerative braking" works on EVs. The vehicle itself is the "flywheel", lots of kinetic energy stored up in its momentum. Each wheel has a generator attached to it. When the driver hits the brakes, a load is attached to this generator. This applies a deceleration torque to the wheels which slows down the vehicle, and the energy recovered by the generators is used to recharge the battery. This energy in the battery is then used to re-accelerate the vehicle when the driver hits the throttle again. It's not a perfect system, and there are plenty of losses, so you'll never get back out of the regenerative braking what you put into acceleration, but it helps. Certainly better than just clamping down on a brake rotor and burning it all off as heat.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 04:24:04 am
content: Another spin ..Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 03:05:00 amSo... if we attach just a hose to a bucket, nothing more, we then fill it until full, and not taking/draining the water, it would continue in full state ? And if we drain/use the water, it would make the water less ?.. of course assuming ideal condition like there is no water loss caused by evaporation and etc ...Quote from: silviustro on June 30, 2015, 03:05:00 amThe bucket of water with leakswould actually drained much faster than the bucket without leakage ?Hope this helps.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 07:55:19 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on June 30, 2015, 02:52:55 amDoesn't that describe most Australian banks?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 08:42:46 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on June 30, 2015, 07:55:19 amAnd all New Zealand banks...After all, most of them are owned by Australian banks.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 10:27:08 am
content: I don't mean to be rude, but where on earth are you studying engineering if you thought that loading down a flywheel would have no affect on its speed of rotation?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 10:55:40 am
content: Quote from: Delta on June 30, 2015, 10:27:08 am+1This is usually covered in Physics 101 class, the first or second semester in any engineering college.Or may be the OP just wanted to see our reactions?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 11:58:22 am
content: Everyone has brain farts from time to time. I've been a musician for almost 40 years, and the other day I was reading off a key signature and for some reason I suddenly started reading flats as sharps for about 20 seconds!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 12:18:54 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on June 30, 2015, 10:27:08 amSocial engineering perhaps ?

author: RickBrant
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2015, 07:31:50 pm
content: So many "perpetual motion machines" distill down to "overly complicated flywheel".It is surprising to many that the more load there is on a generator, the more effort it takes to turn. But perhaps to those who never took the "electric machines" class over on the "power engineering" side of the program, this was never spelled out.It's the same principle that gives rise to inductive impedance in our AC circuits. In a simple conductor, a changing current creates a changing magnetic field, which in turn induces current in the wire, which would be in the opposite direction of the original current if it were strong enough. As it is, the induced current "bucks", or "impedes", the original current.In a generator, a changing magnetic field (caused by rotation of the generator's rotor) will induce current in any nearby conductor (like the gen's output windings), and that current will wrap around itself a magnetic field of its own; this is of the same polarity as the original field, and so the two fields "buck" each other (like poles repel, etc.). Since magnetic field strength is proportional to current, the more current flows in the output coils (i.e. the heavier the load), the more the rotation will be "fought". Open the output circuit (i.e. no load at all) and the gen becomes very easy to turn.You can demonstrate this easily with a largish loudspeaker, something most of us are likely to have laying around. Disconnect it and press gently on the center part of the woofer cone (put your fingers around the dust cap; don't push in on the dust cap!). Note that it's fairly easy to move. Now connect a wire across the speaker's terminals. You'll notice it's harder to move.Many hands-on science museums now have an exhibit where you can try this, hand- or leg-cranking a generator to light up some incandescent bulbs, drive a wattmeter, etc. I recommend it.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2015, 02:14:29 am
content: Next time you go to a fairground, have a listen to all the truck mounted generators powering the rides. When the ride begins moving and pulling way more electric power, listen to that big diesel start to boogie. That is because all of a sudden the generator gets a lot harder to rotate! If that was not the case they could simply use a $100 lawn mower engine to power the generator.----------------Your flywheel generator in the OP, one very interesting thing you could do with it is take it to the equator and point the shaft axis to the sky. Rev it up with external power and the gyroscopic force of the flywheel will try to resist being constantly leaned over further and further by the rotating earth. This energy input will actually be transferred to the flywheel. You could even (with some expended effort, aka work) rock the machine from side to side and it would do the same thing. There was this wrist exercise ball I saw several years ago that used this principle. Get the internal flywheel whizzing and lean the ball from side to side and watch the digital rpm display go higher and higher. Looking... looking... here it is ->