Which probes don't stink? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: txNgineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 02:17:27 am
content: I'm sure this has been discussed a bunch, but getting quality (and what you pay for) seems to be a moving target today. Even among "blue ribbon" manufacturers. I seem to remember Dave talking about his favorites, but I cannot find the video to get the brand.What brand(s) should I look at to avoid the problems I describe below?Like most people who have been doing electronics work for a few decades, I am serious about what probes are between my appendages and various circuits. Plus I want something that is suitable to as many tasks on the bench as practical. I have bought many sets of meter probes/leads and have been unhappy with most. For example, my new Fluke portable DMM has rounded tips that make them worthless on most PCBs. A number of the less expensive ones (bought through authorized retailers) are flimsy or have suspicious CAT ratings or poor connections and strain relief. Shielded cable is often poor with suspicious voltage ratings.I expect I will need 3 or 4 different sets to accomplish what I want. My budget is not huge, but up to US$50-125 per set seems reasonable for the quality I want. But I cannot afford to drop $75 on a set that don't meet most of my needs. Which is why I need your suggestions and experiences.My desires would be:A. Good silicone wire that is soldering iron resistant and flexibleB. Good internal wire (tinned copper) that is capable of handling up to 10 ampsC. Sharp enough points to measure legs on an 0.65 pitch smd packageD. Sharp enough to pierce thin conformal coating on a PCBE. Trustworthy voltage ratings (600v or better).F. Shielded cable probes for sensitive 4 wire measurements or using on old analog VTVM (hard to beat for some alignment/peaking adjustments)G. A set good up to 1000v since I still work on some tube equipmentH. Either an attachment or probe set with mini-grabber end(s), especially for the ground leadI. Banana plugs on the meter endJ. 4 wire probe(s) with different colors for the sense leads (e.g., green, white, blue, yellow, etc.)K. Low enough overall resistance to not mess with highest sensitivity measurements using Dave's uCurrent GoldL. Enough quality and repeatability to not be a factor when used on my 7.5 digit DMMIf I could find the parts, I would even build my own. But getting proper quality parts is an even bigger problem. So much of this stuff is counterfeit now.Thanks in advance for your suggestions and letting me have this little "semi-rant".

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 02:24:10 am
content: Buy officials leads tests from say : Fluke, Keysight or any reputable company, you'll avoid thoses pesky china stuff

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 02:51:59 am
content: uni-t was good impedance wise but it was not great in terms of flexibility.Try going to 100+ strand count silicone wire to get a good probe. It will be like spaghetti.And your requirements are not really met by one probe. For probing digital pins real sharp you want steel tips that are long, which will have high impedance (0.2 ohm vs typical 0.03). That is if you want a real thin probe that is also stiff.And the requirements are also complicated by high voltages. With high voltages you want as little exposed contact area as possible and you want a big finger guard to prevent your fingers from getting near the PCB (you gotta be really focused and on top of your shit if you are live probing 1000V circuits too). With low voltages and tight pin densities (you just wont have 0.65mm pin pitch on a 1000V circuit) you want smaller probes possibly without finger guards etc.All the molecularity and interconnects if you want something like a fluke probe kit is great but it all adds resistances, drifts and ware elements. It's better in a fixed laboratory to have separate probes for each function rather then 'addons' . Not to say the fluke pouch is great, but its a field tool, if you are sitting infront of a 34401A constantly messing with accessories and shit its going to be very obnoxious compared to a probe arsenal hanging on the wall.Keep this in mind: with a well functioning DC power supply connected to a low voltage precision circuit, you don't need CAT III protection which comes with alot of industrial stuff. That means thicker insulation and stiffer bends etc.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 08:02:45 am
content: These multimeter test leads are highly recommended around here (I have them also, and can confirm the recommandation)https://probemaster.com/dmm-multimeter-test-leads/Other leads should also be of nice quality, but haven't used those myself.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 09:27:27 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 07, 2019, 08:23:05 amLook at the very small and pointy Hirschman tips for 2mm banana plugs.They work very well for 0.65mm or 0.5 mm.https://www.reichelt.de/miniatur-pruefspitze-spitze-2-mm-rot-mps-1-rt-p13109.html

author: KMoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 10:41:40 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 07, 2019, 02:51:59 amWhere do you purchase this type of wire?Ken

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 11:18:29 am
content: If money is an issue, try and score some standard Fluke or Brymen leads.They get the job done and not too stiff or tangle proneSome of the Klein and APPA leads are pretty good tooIf you're going to play with higher currents, all bets are off and better making your own thick flexible leads just for that application,with plenty of copper, and crimp, solder and test them to their limitYou can't have too many leads, I think..

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 03:07:25 pm
content: Quote from: txNgineer on July 07, 2019, 02:17:27 amI also suggest starting with the Probe Master leads that Dave and others like. They are my standard probes, too, and they are truly excellent.Even the "master kit" with all the accessories isn't expensive:https://probemaster.com/8000-series-test-lead-master-kits/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 03:28:26 pm
content: Quote from: KMoffett on July 07, 2019, 10:41:40 amDigi-Key carries a bunch of it:https://www.digikey.com/short/p98ht3(That's a parametric search, for hook-up wire, of the type "test lead" and restricted to in-stock only.)So far I've used the stuff by Pomona, Mueller Electric, and Cal Test*, and they're all good, but I expect that any of the brands Digi-Key carries will be good. I just don't bother with PVC, just silicone (or maybe rubber).*The Cal Test wire is rebranded and is imported from France, so its nominal sizes are metric, which is why they're oddball AWGs like 15 and 17ga.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 03:53:34 pm
content: Quote from: txNgineer on July 07, 2019, 02:17:27 amTinning copper wire is something you only need to do inside natural rubber cable, which is pretty rare these days. Tinning copper wire inside silicone cable just adds resistance, compared to the same space taken up purely by copper.

author: txNgineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 05:10:56 pm
content: Thanks to all for the suggestions. Yes I was aware that one set would not do everything I wanted, which is why I planned a lower cost per set. I have not had a problem finding options, but it is difficult to know what experienced people think about the different options unless you ask somewhere like here.One thing I had not considered was dropping the "CAT III" for the SMD probes. True it is not required, but I was not aware of how to get the quality I want in an unrated probe. But after the above comment I will give it another Google deep dive.For the higher current stuff all the above convinces me I need to "roll my own". Even Pomona uses stranded 18ga in their better probes and depending on what Ampacity table you use the derate for stranding drops the nominal 10A rating down to 3-5A. The tricky bit for that will be finding the good croc clips and banana plugs/jacks (like Dave mentioned in one of his videos).What I am coming to from this discussion is something like:Set 1 - SMD and LV PCB sharp end probes with exchangeable tips for bench workSet 2 - 4 conductor shielded set for sensitive, high accuracy. Custom built with mini-kelvin clipsSet 3 - Power DC with matching sense voltage leads and kelvin clips, all custom built for 10A (using something like Digikey 314-1695-ND). Need to source good, 10A kelvin clips though, sigh.Set 4 - CAT IV 1000v probes for HV up to about 900v plus use my existing HV divider probe for 900V upSet 5 - Good general purpose probes like Probemaster as my every-day-driverSet 6+ Dedicate my various existing Fluke probes to my carry-around meter(s) used in general electrical stuff (mains, vehicles, continuity, POE, etc.)Still not seeing much on shielded cable with the best choice so far being shielded ETFE 4 conductor (Digikey 55PC1241-20-CML4-9CS2502-05-ND). Only 225-270C melting point though. Any other ideas?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 06:23:40 pm
content: Take a look at Cal Test, they make 10A Kelvin clips. Mueller Electric and Pomona probably do, too, as will Stäubli, Hirschmann, EZ-Hook, etc.You'd probably be well advised to download all their catalogs and read through them carefully. I think you'll find a lot of the stuff you need.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 06:30:20 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 07, 2019, 03:28:26 pmI was looking for something else today and came across the French companyElectro-PJP, and I strongly suspect they're the OEM to Cal-Test, as PJP's products look identical, and they've got a larger selection than Cal-Test. I suppose it's technically possible that they both sell rebranded stuff from a common OEM, but given that the Cal-Test wire I got literally says "product of France", I think it's more likely that PJP is the OEM. (They also advertise OEM services.)I strongly recommend downloading their PDF catalog, as the website is slow and annoying (clicking "back" from a product page takes you back out of the entire category, not just back one page!).

author: txNgineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 08:19:49 pm
content: Thanks for the suggestions. I have been looking over the detail from many good suppliers for years and the problem I run into is incomplete or missing specifications on individual products. For example, many will specify the voltage rating on kelvin clips and not mention current rating (or vice versa). Your post below mentioned some EU suppliers that I was not familiar with, thanks for that! I will definitely give them a look.Overall my quest was for quality and maximum universality, without ending with a huge Gordian Knot of probe leads when I am looking for a specific type or set.

author: H713
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 06:32:20 am
content: I'm going to be one of the few people to say that I've tried the probe-masters, and I hate them.They're great quality. No question. But there are several things about them that drive me nuts. Firstly, they're too flexible and noodly. This makes them feel fragile (I'm sure they aren't), but more importantly it means that I am constantly untangling them. The probe end is rather bulky, and while the various attachements that screw on are neat, changing them is annoying.I'll be honest, I really like the Fluke probes. Not too noodly, but don't have the memory issue of the cheap probes (which retain their factory bends for about 2 years), and they feel great.In addition to that, get some pomona minigrabber leads. I use them as often as anything, and they feel great to use.Also, any respectable probe will be good to 1kV so long as it isn't an eBay cheapie. Actually, even the eBay cheapie will probably be fine to 1kV so long as they aren't physically abused or used at high temperature, but it's still not worth the risk.