Agilent DSO-X3024A v. Rigol DS4024 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2013, 01:47:31 pm
content: I am considering one or the other. A big factor is whether the Agilent has gradient brilliance like the Rigol. I am looking for a display that comes as close as possible to analog phosphor. It looks like the Agilent does but has anyone here compared it with the Rigol?Also, will either scope allow for the simultaneous display of o-scope on the top screen and FFT on the bottom? Many thanks!Paul

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2013, 02:03:09 pm
content: The intensity graded display on both scopes looks very similar. The Agilent shows a much greater number of waveforms/sec, though unless you're looking to spot very infrequent anomalies that's not likely to be a big deal.Both will show FFT and time domain signals at the same time, but there's a really dramatic difference in terms of display update speed between the two. I've found the Rigol bordering on unusable, whereas the Agilent's waveform display is unaffected by the presence of the FFT trace.The two scopes are similar on paper in terms of spec, but they're a world apart in terms of how usable they are in a real lab. I don't regret the extra cost of the 3000X at all. (Tip: there's a special offer on at the moment whereby you get a free bandwidth upgrade, so you'll get a 3024 for the price of a 3014 - check Agilent's web site for details. It's a major bargain IMHO.)

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2013, 03:12:21 pm
content: Thanks for the feedback. In comparing datasheets, it looks like the Agilent DSOX-3000 series has 64 level intensity grading whereas Rigol claims 256 levels with their DS4000 series. It's tempting to say that a 4x numerical display grading difference results in 4 times the human visual contrast depth, but I doubt that's the case.Paul

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2013, 03:31:01 pm
content: I use both types of scope regularly (DS4054 vs MSO-X3054A) - there's little or nothing to choose between them in terms of the appearance of the waveforms on screen.The Rigol has an enormous memory, which for some jobs is really useful. The Agilent, however, is much faster and more responsive in every way. Those differences are way more significant than a few shades of colour that I can't even see, IMHO.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2013, 05:36:35 pm
content: Buy the Agilent DSOX3000. If you have enough money...

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2013, 06:57:06 pm
content: One other item that might be worth considering - the Agilent DSOX can be upgraded to a MSOX. While it will cost more in either configuration (DSO or MSO), at least there is a way to get to the MSO from the DSO as a starting point - which until someone confirms otherwise doesn't appear to be the case with the Rigol. (Maybe in the future Rigol will offer this capability).

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2013, 01:49:59 am
content: Thanks to all for the help and guidance. I just placed an order for the DSO-X 3024A and took advantage of the bandwidth upgrade promotion. Should be quite an improvement over my Hantek DSO 5102B and Tek 2465B. The Tek stays, the Hantek will find a new home.Paul

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2013, 03:56:51 am
content: That will be a pretty deluxe tandem: DSOX3024A and 2465B

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2013, 11:48:31 am
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 06, 2013, 01:49:59 amIf you don't mind me asking, what did you get quoted for the 3024?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2013, 01:34:59 pm
content: I wonder if the new Rigol MSO4000s will cure any of the responsiveness, or FFT performance issues? Considering the available hacks for the DS, and hopefully for the new MSOs as well, the value is pretty hard to beat.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2013, 01:40:57 pm
content: Yeah - you can't really complain. They aren't discounting (resellers that is) below the next lowest tier price but who cares -- get a $~10k scope (MSOX3034 - $9169 list - normal discount would probably be around $8000) for $5500? That's kind of a no-brainer (assuming it's in your price range).

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 12:45:06 am
content: Basically, after talking to Newark and getting pricing - you can get a MSOX3024 for only $500 more than the upcoming Rigol MSO4000 series (MSO4024 specifically so equivalent bandwidth).Something worth considering.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 03:43:58 am
content: Quote from: grego on October 08, 2013, 12:45:06 amHow much does that work out to be?

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 12:47:57 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 08, 2013, 03:43:58 amMSOX3024 is only $4500 with the current deal. DSOX3034 is only $4200 - or $5500 for the MSOX3304.So Rigol MSO4024 is $4000 from tequipment.net ($3962 to be exact) and the MSOX3024 is $4500. Draw your own conclusions on which is "better" - Rigol has more memory and true 1mv/div, Agilent has that sexy 1M wfps and is a more responsive scope. Rigol can be feature unlocked which is not an insignificant feature (cost-wise) compared to the Agilent.I had a Rigol MSO4024 on order as I mentioned earlier -- but when I ran the numbers with this new Agilent deal it made more sense to go that route - I get a better scope (I don't think we an argue that Agilent is not better than Rigol) for about the same money that will also retain resale value significantly longer/better. Since the only things I really need (and not immediately) are CAN decodes I can add in features as I find I want/need them. I'm ok not having 140Mpt memory (although I will admit that's pretty damn sexy).Bottom line is the MSOX 2000 series is now a BETTER deal than the Rigol MSO series and the 4000 is functionally at a similar price-point (slight premium, unless you factor in the fact that Rigol can be hacked which will change the math significantly).Rigol went with the Agilent pricing on the MSO option - it's basically a $1300 add-on from the DSO model as well.

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 01:15:33 pm
content: FYI - Newark/element 14 has the Agilent DSO-X-3024A on a super promotional sale right now at USD $3222. <gasp!> That's way better than the bandwidth upgrade promotion going on at the moment. In fact, in about one week, the street price of the 3024A through Newark dropped about USD $1,000. That means, grab 'em up now while supplies last. Newark would normally be the last place (okay, eBay) where I would look to purchase a new Agilent DSO. However, it was where I purchased my first scope -- a B&K Dynascan model back in the late 1970s. It was 5 MHz, single channel of course and was used mostly for FM broadcast audio measurements.Or, with the Agilent DSO-X series getting a bit "long in the tooth," I would not be surprised to see a replacement Agilent series on the near horizon. When a pricing drops that much, something is almost always happening in the background.Paul

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 01:40:17 pm
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 08, 2013, 01:15:33 pmHeh - they are all selling them at that price right now - it's the promo - what's even crazier is the DSOX3034 is only $1000 more at $4200.I agree something else may be on the horizon - or it could just be they are feeling some pricing pressure from Rigol. Personally I think they are in a decent position now with this promo. The X2000 series beats the Rigol 4000 on pricing and the 3000 now has a slight premium - so it kind of sandwiches the Rigol 4000 series into a weird position.

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 02:27:42 pm
content: Tequipment.net is showing "clearance" on one DSO-X3000 model, and "discontinued" on another. Sure does look like a new generation is coming down the pike.Paul

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 02:45:12 pm
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 08, 2013, 02:27:42 pmI wouldn't take tequipment as an indicator, they aren't a normal agilent reseller. Clearance is probably because they have one in stock and want to move it. In fact when I contacted them about cancelling my Rigol MSO4000 order they asked why - they hadn't seen the Agilent promo. At least the person I was dealing with hadn't.Doesn't change the fact that a new model may be coming - but that's fine with me - still get a new scope that beats anything else in its price-point for less money.

author: tized
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 06:18:04 am
content: Quote from: grego on October 08, 2013, 12:47:57 pmBut if you factor in all the Agilent options that come as standard in the Rigol (memory, mem. seg., VGA/LAN, bus triggering, etc.), it still looks as if the MSO4024 if more cost effective. Unless I'm missing something with this new Agilent promotion.Naturally, it all depends on what you're looking for in a scope. For me the 140Mpts is the major selling feature and 110kwfms/s (85k with the digital part on) is still pretty good.Quote from: Attorney on October 08, 2013, 01:15:33 pmOn Farnell/element14 the DSOX3024A is listed at US$4,825.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 07:45:52 am
content: Buy the DSOX3000 series if 4mV/div is enough sensitivity for you.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 11:43:25 am
content: Quote from: tized on October 09, 2013, 06:18:04 amHave you checked recently? It's still $3222.http://www.newark.com/agilent-technologies/dsox3024a/dsox-series-oscilloscope-4-anlg/dp/21T9288?in_merch=Popular%20Electrical%20And%20Electronic%20Test%20Products

author: tized
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 12:06:18 pm
content: Quote from: grego on October 09, 2013, 11:43:25 amJust now:http://il.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/dsox3024a/oscilloscope-4-channel-200mhz/dp/1859752Talk about geographical segmentation...Wonder if I can order from Newark instead of Farnell. The only other dealer Agilent list in Israel, is one for second hand equipment.I'll probably go down the DS4024 route anyway.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 12:41:14 pm
content: No changes in prices yet at Farnell Denmark...

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 02:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: tized on October 09, 2013, 06:18:04 amI'm not sure what Farnell shows this morning, but on Newark/element 14, the DSO-X-3024A is still listed for USD $3222 with two units remaining in current stock. I ordered on Saturday with four units showing.Paul

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 03:36:42 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on October 09, 2013, 03:09:51 pmIf you look closely at the datasheet spec, there is a footnote that says:"** 1 mV/div and 2 mV/div are a magnification of 4 mV/div setting. For vertical accuracy calculations, use full scale of 32 mV for 1 mV/div and2 mV/div sensitivity setting."

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 04:14:07 pm
content: Quote from: JDubU on October 09, 2013, 03:36:42 pmSo, how significant is the handicap? The Rigol DS2K series sports a 500uV/div. vertical amplitude position but can its 8-bit ADC architecture really resolve to show much *less* than 500uV, or is it more of a marketing "bragging right?" On the lowest vertical scale(s), is Rigol using an exceptionally low-noise switched instrumentation amp at the input?I think a side-by-side measurement comparison between the DS2000 series and scopes like the DSOX-3000 is likely the only way of knowing for sure.Paul

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 05:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 09, 2013, 04:14:07 pmDon't have access to an Agilent but on my DS2072, I am getting the following noise floor (probes unplugged with input BNC's left open, vertical scale: 500uV/div):Horizontal scale: 5ns/div125uV RMS550uV PPHorizontal scale: 1uV/div:230uV RMS900uV PPHorizontal scale: 100uV/div:380uV RMS1200uV PPThese numbers are lower with the vertical channel bandwidth limit enabled.

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 05:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: JDubU on October 09, 2013, 05:18:25 pmOpening the channel BNC port or grounding the input and just observing the noise floor display tells us nothing about resolving low voltages. That requires applying a known low voltage (in the uV range) to the input and simultaneously watching the display as the source voltage level is gradually redudced. Then, that result should be compared against a competing scope.Paul

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 05:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 09, 2013, 05:23:42 pmYes, that test would definitely give more practical information.Here is a good app note from Agilent that discusses methods and compares noise floor among several scopes:http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-3020EN.pdf

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 05:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: JDubU on October 09, 2013, 05:36:11 pmGreat info. Thanks for passing this along.Paul

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 07:41:57 pm
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 08, 2013, 01:15:33 pmThe 3000X series was introduced first quarter of 2011. I don't think it's going to be replaced anytime soon.My best guess is that they can afford to do this now that they've established their product in the market (maybe even got their NRE costs covered by now) and want to keep their market from getting snatched by Rigol and others.BTW, the price for the 100 MHz has actually gone up a bit, and the price for the ~€600 upgrades has too.Quote from: AndyC_772 on October 05, 2013, 02:03:09 pmThanksalot!it seems that I'll be getting the 350 MHz instead of the 200 MHz when my budget+savings reach the threshold in a few months, still long enough before the end of this promo

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 09:59:33 am
content: QuoteI agree with this, but how would you seriously discuss about measuring signals in the sub-mV range with that much noise ?Below is a screenshot of my Rigol DS4054. All Channels terminated with 50 Ohms, sensitivity set to 1mV/div.BW limits CH1: OFF CH2: 200MHz CH3:100MHz CH4: 20MHz.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 10:31:11 am
content: Well, with 20MHz bandwidth it is OK. It might be useful for measuring small audio signal from a microphone or so.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 07:02:27 pm
content: Looks like there's a good deal on eBay right now:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-MSOX3024A-Oscilloscope-200-MHz-4-Analog-Plus-16-Digital-Channels-/131019619339No I'm not affiliated, I just saw it myself. If I hadn't just gotten my 3024 a couple days ago I would have bought this. It's $750 below what you would pay new with the current promotion and it's only 5 months old. About the only thing I'd ask the seller is a copy of the cal cert to verify the age.Kind of kicking myself now, but hey - you can't rely on ebay - sometimes good things just pop up.

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 12:34:07 am
content: My DSOX-3024A and Rigol DS4024 showed up last week. Both are excellent devices. However, the fan on the Rigol is quite loud. Not sure year if I'll keep one or the other -- or keep both. But if I keep both, that's a lot of dough needlessly sitting on the bench when it can be put to better use.On the DSOX-3024A, how is the full measurement screen attained? I cannot get the right menu to disappear. On the Rigol, it's just one button push.Paul

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 12:43:21 am
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 15, 2013, 12:34:07 amOn the Agilent the right menu is persistent - no way to remove it. It's always 10 divisions. Dave mentioned it in his original 2000 review in 2011. It's not a huge deal as I've found. Sure it'd be nice to gain 2 more divisions but it's not a dealbreaker.Keeping both seems like a bit much for a home lab unless you have a specific need for it.As for the fan - the funny thing is my Agilent 3024 is the quietest thing on my bench. That thing is whisper quiet.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 02:07:16 am
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 15, 2013, 12:34:07 amHaving both side by side is a very cool opportunity. If you can summarize the key differences / your impressions there are probably lots of folks that would be up for hearing your thoughts. Congrats and Enjoy!

author: tized
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 05:39:30 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 15, 2013, 02:07:16 amSecond that. I'm still on the fence...Newark now lists the DSOX3024A at $3,876, so some States side people got a really nice deal with the $3,222 promotion.Farnell took the price down to $4,417. It's like the stock market there!

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 12:24:23 pm
content: Wow - true. Even though I had to pay sales tax I still got a better deal (I forgot Newark was in Chicago when I ordered - oops <grin>).And looks like someone pulled the trigger on that 5 month old MSOX on ebay which is an even better deal now with the price change.If cost is the motivating factor looks like the Rigol MSO is definitely superior now. I won't complain though - looks like I got a pretty sweet deal on my DSOX3024.

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 01:26:12 pm
content: Quote from: grego on October 15, 2013, 12:24:23 pmLooks like our Newark orders were part of the same group. It seems fewer than a half-dozen units sold at the USD $3222 price if their on-line quantities are accurate. I'm still comparing it with the Rigol DS4024. It will take a me a bit of time to get comfortable enough with each in order to make any semblance of an educated evaluation.I did note that the comprehensive Agilent manual states 256 intensity grades rather than 64 as shown in the on-line brochure. To me, waveform detail looks identical between the Agilent and Rigol. The control response time is significantly better on the Agilent. It's like manipulating an analog scope. My big gripe is that it doesn't appear that the right menu display on the Agilent can be turned on/off to allow for more displayed measurement area. Heck, I can even do that on my cheap Hantek DSO5102B.Paul

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:27:58 pm
content: You can't turn off the right side measurement block on the Agilent, it's there permanently. On the plus side, what it does mean is that if you have the display in Roll mode, the trace is properly aligned with the right side of the graticule.On the Rigol, if you have the right side menu enabled, it actually obscures two grid squares, which means there's a lag between the input signal and the change being visible on screen.It's the difference in the cursor response that I find most dramatic between the two - the Agilent is smooth, responsive and easy to use, while the Rigol is the exact opposite. Since I tend to use the cursors all the time instead of the built-in measurements, the difference is a major time saver for me.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:08:34 pm
content: Newark is offering 15% off now with coupon code FALL15OFF - which brings the DSOX3024 down to about $3299. Just a heads up.

author: aholtzma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 09:51:49 pm
content: grego: where did you see this advertised? The code doesn't seem to work for me (in either the Canadian or US stores).

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 10:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: aholtzma on October 15, 2013, 09:51:49 pmI got an email from them.http://view.email.newark.com/?j=fe62167376650c7a7717&m=fe64157071660d747415&ls=fdf611727664017f7211747d&l=fe9f15747564057474&s=fe201d757c62067e7c1672&jb=ff60157772&ju=fe34177075630675761573&et_cid=23318723&et_rid=959623922&CMP=EMC-23318723&v=1&r=0That was the link for the program.

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 11:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on October 15, 2013, 06:27:58 pmI guess there really is no free lunch. Thanks for the detailed feedback.Paul

author: aholtzma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 12:46:38 am
content: Quote from: grego on October 15, 2013, 10:22:02 pmSadly this discount does not apply to test equipment.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 01:15:00 am
content: Ah yes, the dreaded fine print:"Contractual considerations with a small number of manufacturers may reduce or prevent a voucher discount on selected items, including test equipment, IC tools and accessories, and power supplies."Sounds like it may apply to some stuff but both everything. Sorry about that.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 06:34:21 am
content: I keep getting discount offers when I place orders with them... I'll order £20 worth of bits, and a 'one time only' voucher appears on screen telling me I can have a discount if I increase the order value to, say, £150.The caveat is that the discount doesn't apply to the big, expensive items like test equipment, so I can't just order a handful of small components, get the voucher, and then buy a scope with it.Quote from: Attorney on October 15, 2013, 11:13:37 pmFree lunch, with Agilent?Order lunch from Agilent and even the knife and fork are extra cost options!

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 02:17:05 pm
content: Separately, if anyone with an Agilent is looking to option it up so far the best pricing I've found is through TestEquity (testequity.com). Again, not affiliated I just priced out a bunch of different authorized vendors and they came up the best at about 9% off list. Just saying in case anyone is out shopping.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 06:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 15, 2013, 01:26:12 pmSo any further updates on your side-by-side comparison?

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 12:57:36 am
content: Quote from: grego on October 17, 2013, 06:36:12 pmWell now that I've started the 30-day trial period on the internal Agilent generator, I've really come to like it. But overall, both scopes seem equal to me in terms of ease of use and screen resolution. Build quality between the DS4024 and DSO-X3024A is very close. I was hoping to get over the loud fan noise of the DS4024 but it gives me a headache after a while.I'm probably not the person to ask if you're looking for detailed signal analysis comparisons. My needs are basic/intermediate and quite honestly, I could have lived with the new Rigol DS1000Z series, although 250 MSa/s with four channels active would have been borderline. What I'm not sure of at the moment is whether I'll pay for the Agilent Gen upgrade or purchase a Rigol DG1062Z AFG. I would like to use the AFG across several scopes, including an old Tek 2465B.Paul

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 01:30:17 am
content: Quote from: Attorney on October 18, 2013, 12:57:36 amPaul, for the price you'll be a lot happier with an external generator rather than the built-in. You can get a lot more oomph for your dollar with that. Heck, my 80Mhz Siglent SDG5082 was only about $600 shipped from China.How are you finding the scopes from a response perspective? Using the cursors? Using FFT? Rapidly changing the timebase?

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 02:09:18 am
content: Quote from: grego on October 18, 2013, 01:30:17 amNo comparison there. I immediately noticed the Agilent responds much faster to control changes. Everything is nearly instantaneous where the Rigol often exhibits delay/latency. Even with the latency, I've not found it annoying but then I'm not making repetitive measurements for a living.I have not used FFT much so I can't comment yet.Thanks for the info on the external gen.Paul

author: tized
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 03:21:03 pm
content: I've just made an order for the Rigol MSO4024, it was actually cheaper than the price for the DSOX3024 listed at Farnell. Couldn't get a quote for the Agilent here, but got two quotes from Rigol distributors.Will write my impressions of the scope once I get it, in about 3 weeks.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 04:27:24 pm
content: Quote from: tized on November 05, 2013, 03:21:03 pmThere's no question the MSO4024 is cheaper than the equivalent MSOX3024A - with the current promotion it's about (in the US) $3900 for the Rigol vs $4500 for the Agilent. Plus options on the Agilent makes it even higher.Attorney has both scopes right now on eval so I'm curious as to his updates. He hasn't said anything for a while.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 07:58:00 pm
content: Quote from: grego on November 05, 2013, 04:27:24 pmI believe Attorney has the DS4024, not the MSO4024.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 08:46:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mark_O on November 05, 2013, 07:58:00 pmIt's the exact same scope, just without the MSO component. Obviously a front end change to handle that connector but all the baseline specs are identical including form factor and whatnot. I would be very surprised if there are any component or specification changes on the scope side (obviously it has more channels because of the digital). Since the part numbers for the decodes are the same between the two it's the same device effectively if you're comparing build quality, fan noise, responsiveness, etc.

author: tized
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 09:18:11 pm
content: Quote from: Mark_O on November 05, 2013, 07:58:00 pmThe DS4024 being one of the main features of the MSO4024.I believe it's the same hardware but with the MSO connector and the extra parts on the PCB to enable it. The DS4014 teardown by Connor Wolf shows some unpopulated footprints that would fit.The MSOX3024A is listed at Farnell for $5,926 before shipping+customs. Couldn't get any other quote from Agilent or a local distributor. The Rigol was priced at ~$4000 shipped (there's VAT, but I get that back).

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 09:33:40 pm
content: Quote from: tized on November 05, 2013, 09:18:11 pmDon't forget the current promo for Agilent - buy a scope but pay one BW tier lower.

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2013, 08:05:44 pm
content: FYI, I don't know about the Rigol MSO, but the Agilent MSO does all decoding in hardware. This is going real time, which IMO is a big plus compared to software decoding.

author: tized
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 10:37:39 pm
content: Just arrived! Connected to a 1MHz sine from the SG to get a waveform on the screen.Will write my impressions once I get to use it a bit...now I need to get some sleep.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 11:08:39 pm
content: I like the separate Logic analyzer knob.

author: Franzman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 09:48:06 am
content: Hey, does anyone has made a comparision between those scopes?I have to find a new oscilloscope for my company, located in Austria, but i don't really know if I should take the Agilent MSO-X3034 or the Rigol MSO4034.With the Agilent Bandwith promo, the MSO3034X comes up to 4463€, the Rigol is about 4980€. But when I need some extra opinions, the Agilent will become much more expensive.We need the extra option I2C,SPI,UART and RS232, CAN/LIN would be good too. The digital Voltmeter would be nice, 4Mpts storage and Ethernet are must haves.So the Agilent would be about 7184€, which are 9700$.The Rigol has internal 140Mpts, so we dont need to upgrade storage, ethernet is standard too.Only the Serial debugging options has to be buyed extra. So the Rigol would be about 6206€, which are 8400$.Is the Agilent so much better? I have read your posts about 4Mpts fast-memory and 140Mpts slow-memory, do you notice the faster storage?I have read, the agilent has hardware serial debugging, are there really improvements against the soft-serial debugging?Thank you for your Advices!PS: did anyone of you made experiences with Yokogawa DLM2034?

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 10:51:02 am
content: Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 09:48:06 amGet the Agilent, and talk to your local sales rep. Ask if they've got any ex-demo units (note: these sometimes have less than the standard warranty), or if they can get CertiPrime stock from Agilent (a few thousand USD cheaper but with a full factory warranty).If you can't cut a deal, buy some options now, then others later. 4Mpt memory and I2C/SPI are my top two, Segmented Memory is good for debugging quiet serial buses. I've found a Bus Pirate or an FT232 cable more useful than the scope's UART decode. The DVM option is at best a toy, you can do exactly what it does with the Markers and auto measurement. If you need a multimeter, buy one (Agilent U125xA is nice, or a TrueVolt if you want a bench DMM).Look at what you're going to do with the scope and be selective. Organise things by priority and look at what you can afford.

author: Altemir
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 11:01:49 am
content: FranzmanYou can buy Rigol MSO4014, and then get 500MHz + all decoding options after simple trick without voiding the warranty, if you want

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 12:39:08 pm
content: Quote from: Altemir on January 21, 2014, 11:01:49 amIf that's how the game is to be played then the same could be said for the Agilent, with bandwidth upgrades too no less.

author: Franzman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 12:58:25 pm
content: Hey Philpem,Thanks for your answer, good idea, i will ask for ex-demo units.I have a Fluke DVM, but i thought the integrated DVM is much more accurate than the auto measurement.What's about the Hard-Frequency Counter in the DVM option, is this one more accurate than the auto measurement?I think, we don´t need segmented memory, when we need it, we can buy the option after some time.We use SPI most, this is the most important option for us.What's about the usability of Agilent?Do you really need your 4Mpts upgrade, or is it only nice to have?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 02:21:15 pm
content: I would never buy Rigol for everyday use in a company. Rigol is good for hobby use. Buy that Agilent scope...

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 02:36:54 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on January 21, 2014, 02:21:15 pmAs a Rigol Dm3058 , DS2072 and Ds1053E (sold) owner i can confirm. It is nice for semi-pro use.But i would get Agilent / Fluke / tek. for any serious work.

author: Franzman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 03:03:40 pm
content: Ok, I am tending to Agilent too, because...because it's Agilent and not Rigol.Just talked with an austrian sales representive, they haven't a 3000x demo equipment, only a 4000x. Great Scope of course, but great price too.He offered me an Hameg HMO3034 too, with all the options we come to only 5100€, but i think this is another device for hobby use. Only 4800 Waveforms/s seems a bit less compared against Agilent.Fortunately we have the opinion to test the 3000x for a week, so i can test the whole device.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 05:03:58 pm
content: Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 03:03:40 pmYou can buy used and "Premium Used" Agilent scopes in Agilent's official eBay store:http://savings.tm.agilent.com/index.cgi?ALIAS=equipment_specials&User:LANGUAGE=enhttp://stores.ebay.com/Agilent-Remarketing-Solutions-Store"PREMIUM USED" 4-channel MSOX 3000- and 4000 series models currently for sale:Agilent MSOX3054A PREMIUM USED MSO: 500 MHz, 4 + 16 Channels $5,997.00 or best offer:http://www.ebay.com/itm/181197633883Agilent MSOX4024A PREMIUM USED MSO: 200 MHz, 4 + 16 Channels US $7,855.00 or best offer:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171220357176Agilent MSOX3104A PREMIUM USED MSO: 1 GHz, 4 + 16 Channels US $7,910.00 or best offer:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171213645040Agilent Premium Used Equipment: See Agilent's refurbishment process for savings without compromise

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 05:18:14 pm
content: Wow... I'd grab that MSOX3104A. At US$7910, that's 50% off list. You can negotiate with Agilent Prime for added options as part of the deal.

author: z01z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 05:53:27 pm
content: This might be of interest to you.You could also get a Rigol and evaluate the two side by side (if you want to after the video). Check batronix.de, they have a 30 day trial.Regarding the sample memory size, you can check how long it would last. Since you've mentioned SPI, 4M with 20Mhz clock and 5 sample per cycle can hold 40ms of data.I think the main question is, do you need a scope or logic analyzer? Will you mainly decode serial buses or check analogue signals?

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 09:43:02 pm
content: Maybe they try to get rid of the Agilent scopes so they don't have to re-label them with "Keysight Technologies"

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 11:21:30 pm
content: Quote from: qno on January 21, 2014, 09:43:02 pmI was thinking the same thing.

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2014, 08:30:45 am
content: Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 12:58:25 pmYour Fluke will be far more accurate than the Agilent scope's DVM option... the DVM option is only good to (IIRC) 3 digits resolution and in my experience has a large step size so isn't particularly useful. Voltage at a point on the waveform can be more easily determined with the cursors.Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 12:58:25 pmI haven't tried that one...Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 12:58:25 pmSegmem is nice for doing compliance test on slow data buses but the user interface is a bit on the clunky side.Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 12:58:25 pmSecond to none. We have one at work, everyone keeps borrowing it (or trying to).The interface on the Rigol is clunky, with text strings shortened and abbreviated to the point of insanity. Agilent's UI practically guides you through the process of making measurements; it's very intuitive and "feels" like a scope should.If you've ever used a HP or Agilent scope, you'll love it. If you've used a Tektronix, you'll spend half an hour finding where things are, then love it even more!Quote from: Franzman on January 21, 2014, 12:58:25 pmThe scope I've been using doesn't have it natively, but we have demo'd it. It mainly increases the horizontal resolution of the signal when you're zoomed in.As a point of comparison, the MSOX3054A I just ordered has the following options:MSOX3054A Base Unit - 500MHz 4ch + 16ch digital/mixed signalEMBD: I2C/Serial (Embedded System Bus) Decode and TriggerMEMUP: 4Msamples memoryWAVEGEN: Waveform generatorI added Wavegen because it saves on bench space - I'll only need my function generator if I need to do something relatively advanced (sweep/modulation mainly). Wavegen makes a nice, simple signal source for testing analog stages and analog-to-digital interface stuff.

author: Franzman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 22, 2014, 10:32:30 am
content: Ok,I just asked our sales rep. for sending me the MSOX3034 for a week, so i can test the device.I will test the serial debugging options, maybe we will take it.Quote from: philpem on January 22, 2014, 08:30:45 amWe have a Tektronix now, more usability sounds greatNow we are using a Tektronix TDS3024B, in the meantime i'm familiar with this scope. But i don't like that it has only 10kptsMaybe we get the Hameg HMO3034 from our Agilent distributor too, so we can test side by side, but i think Agilent will win this battle.Thanks to Philpem