EU/NA vs. Chinese: difference between services/products? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Brage
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:22:55 am
content: What is the difference between EU/NA companies and Chinese companies when it comes to PCB, PCBA, and Turn-Key products and services?I got a quote from one of the usual suspects in China for a series of 200 boards, including SMT and THT assembly, for roughly $1000 + BOM costs.I also got a quote from a company in Europe for the same boards with the same components for roughly $11000. That includes BOM costs and tooling.An estimated cost for BOM at 200qty would be $3000. That makes the estimated price difference between the companies $7000.The boards and components are all standard stuff. I'm requesting nothing unusual:2-layer, FR-4, 1.6mm thick, 1oz, no blind or buried vias, no small track size or spacing, not big boards or abnormally shaped (<100x100mm), smallest component is 0805, 4 THT components, total number of different components are 16.The EU company specified tooling for the PCBs, stencil, and PnP setup. Is this not tooling that the Chinese company also has to produce?I know labor costs are different, but $7000 in difference?What value would a company from the EU provide to me/the product that the Chinese company can not?Are they doing any more tests on the boards or after assembly that the Chinese are not doing? Are they doing part obsolescence? Engineering change orders for repeat orders?Kind regards

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:44:44 am
content: The quote for the european manufacturer sounds excessively high.But i know of many companies around here that will quote stupidly high prices, i think either because they don't care for small orders, or they have customers that didn't realize that today it's not an so difficult to find a new contractor.For us, we get more or less even with chinese prices in the 250-1000 units per batch area, then cinese slowly becomes cheaper but we rarely do orders of more than 250 units per batch. This is also because we don't allow no name components, in the rare cases we do that, components are usually given for free and you can really see the difference.So, look around for other contractors.What you get from more "local" manufacturing:- Support in your language/better english- Support in your Time Zone- More control in the supply chain- Decreased costs if you have to send/receive components, boards.. shipping things to china gets expensive rather quickly and time consuming. It's not unusual that we send components (custom, or that we want to keep the source for ourselves) and have to send boards back and forth for prototypes or issues in manufacturing- The ability to just take the car and kick the contractor in the ass if they screw up- Other minor bonuses if you're paranoid, worry about trust and such things

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 12:32:01 pm
content: Agreed, the EU price seems pretty crazy.I think it is normal and fair however to quote the tooling costs, these are fixed costs they incur when you kit up a new job. to run an new SMT product I need a stencil and that costs $100-200 USD depending on its size and if it needs anything like multi-level, I also have to spend some time checking the supplied BOM inputting the data and reading the component datasheets if any of the parts are in packages I have not previously encountered, other parts of the company might need to create documentation, resolve supply issues. All those things costs time which is money. EU PCB suppliers also typically charge tooling on a new PCB and any changes to it between issues (regardless of where they are sourcing it), China just hides these costs and includes them in their overhead, for PCBs that's why you can often get larger quantities cheaper by avoiding your PCBway/JLC type suppliers. Your EU supplier might waive or refund these charges if they had commitment to future orders so they could spread the cost onto those. They also have to source the boards from China which might not be possible if you gave them a tight timeline, in which case they would have switched to EU sourcing and they would have got much more expensive.Your board as described is fairly simple with 16 BOM lines, although we don't have a component count, I'd have a guess our UK assembly would be much closer to China than your EU price. That said its 2021 and you are estimating your BOM cost, the EU supplier it seems has worked it out, if they stuck to EU distribution and no grey market, your estimate could be way way out with current component supply issues.

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 12:42:26 pm
content: Send over your BOM and PCBA / PCB requirements to Daphne. We have used their services a number of times with excellent results. Had 1 issue on a 500pc run and that was due to a USB connector being slightly installed at an angle which was caught with our enclosure fitting. Easy fix. They are medical / automotive ISO certified.In my opinion, both of your PCBA offers are high.Daphne Tian (Ms.)Sales DepartmentMobile: +86-135-9019-1310KINGFORD PCB ELECTRONICS CO.,LIMITEDShenzhen Kingford Technology CO.,LTD.Tel: +86-755-23287851 ext:806Email: kfpcb12@kingfordpcb.comWebsite:www.kingfordpcb.comSkype: kfpcb12@kingfordpcb.com

author: Brage
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 01:29:07 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2021, 11:44:44 amI got a feeling it might be a screw you price...Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2021, 11:44:44 amWould this typically be due to sourcing issues or because it's what they already have inhouse?Quote from: SMTech on November 15, 2021, 12:32:01 pmI agree that tooling costs is normal to quote. My inquiry where as to why this particular company, the Chinese one, did not specify these costs, when the industry view it as normal.Quote from: SMTech on November 15, 2021, 12:32:01 pmThe quote from the EU company had the BOM cost baked in. The quote from the Chinese company came without. My estimate is based on online pricing alone. Judging by suppliers online (Digi-Key, Mouser...), sourcing should not be an issue but you can never be too sure these days, for sure.Quote from: mon2 on November 15, 2021, 12:42:26 pmThanks, I'll check them out!