The big 3d Printing topic - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2014, 10:28:06 pm
content: Since there was no single topic for 3d printing, which I think is pretty big nowadays, I decided to create one.Let's use this for all generic 3d printer related discussion.For one, let me start with a question. I'm looking through the printers available, and have a hard time deciding. Are there any experienced owners with a dual extruder printer they'd recommend to others? (I'm interested in dual extruder ones because I saw firsthand how limited a single extruder gets without a separate, soluble filament for support structures...)I experimented with a Makerbot Replicator 2 at one of our offices... All over the web it is praised as the most reliable 3d printer, but that was pretty far from my experience. The temperature sensor on the hothead is mismatched ("by design"), and reports higher than actual temperatures, making the printer unusable if you don't know to add 20C to all temperature settings by hand. The filament pull mechanism is subpar, and the factory slicer program is of questionable quality, and makes some really stupid decisions about where to put (or not put) supports...So if the market leader is such a sorry beast, I began wondering about all the others...

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 12:06:23 am
content: I also experimented with the rep 2. and came to the same conclusion that it was a steaming pile of brown stuff. So we then tried the the 'UP Plus2' and what a difference between the two. At least I was able to get prints to actually work! (any print!). It has a smaller build volume , but when it works you can design around that. Also builds on a perf mat so needing a sharp scraper to remove the print so best to make a jig to hold the perf board while you work the scraper on the print job removal.There is no fancy enclosure on it but have not really experienced any draft issues so far , however I am not in a drafty environment. The software is okay, generally easy to navigate. No local SD card port on the printer but no big deal really.Just to note the fancy auto leveling routine should be doneaftercompleting a manual leveling of the table before first use.Don't rely on the 'factory' doing a proper table level adjustment.All in all its still only a 'hobby machine' but at a much lower price than the rep 2 and it actually works, quite well too.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 02:55:24 pm
content: You know one wonders where all those positive reviews for the R2 are coming from. Either they are spending too much on social marketing, or maybe only 10% of the printers are broken.Well I have to admit though that once you figure out the temperature sensor issue, and set the printing temperature to 240C in the slicer, it starts working.The slicer is still subpar, and the output is still not quite what you'd expect from a printer with this pricetag, but it works. So I wonder if people just get complacent with it and rationalize their decision to pay premium for a subpar product with rave reviews.By the way, anyone used a "delta" 3d printer? Eg. Reprap Rostock, Deltaprintr, etc. I wonder if they have an advantage over traditional ones, or whether it's just a curiosity.

author: wilheldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 06:28:57 pm
content: I have a Solidoodle 3. I had to build my own enclosure around it, put fans on the y-axis motor and control board to keep them from overheating, and have done a lot of mods to improve its precision. The heated bed still sucks on it, so that will probably be my next mod. But it was pretty damned cheap for a 8" cube build envelope, and I learned a ton about the technology by tinkering with it to get it to work.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2014, 07:24:27 pm
content: Has anybody with one of those diy 3d printers actually done anything useful with it? Like printing project boxes or stuff like that.Don't get me wrong, I understand people like to mess with the technology, but I can't see myself buying one for 2k usd only to print crusty test models.Services like Shapeways may be a tad expensive, but at least your model is printed on a very high end machine. I have used it to print a small scale model, it turned out much better than expected. even tiny details were still visible. I'm not really into 3d printers so I don't know what the latest and greatest diy printers can do, but I doubt it comes close to that kind of resolution.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 06:54:50 am
content: I have a friend who sells his handmade devices in enclosures he prints with a RepRap. The end result looks pretty cool. So yea, it's doable, and marketable.Of course yea, Shapeways is a good alternative, with industrial printers and a variety of materials, though I wonder how the cost effectiveness of a Shapeways order compares to an on-site printer.The best "budget" (ie. non-industrial) printer, to my knowledge, is capable of .02 mm resolution. The average resolution is .1-.2 mm.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:39:12 am
content: sigmoid, what would be the brand and model of that .1mm accurate printer?

author: firehopper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 09:30:54 am
content: according to the kossel wiki , located herehttp://reprap.org/wiki/Kosselthe kossel mini that I'm slowly acquiring parts for and putting together, it has a repeatability of .03mmhope that helps a little.I dont have many more parts to order anymore. only roughly 3 parts left, + pla plastic to print with.total spent thus far $497.98. and $80 ish left to buy..

author: Atreidae
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 12:07:07 pm
content: The two that I have been researching quite heavily are the Mendel90 and the "ORD bot Hadron"The Mendel90 is backed by a guy who's been trying to perfect 3d printing for ages and has a wicked update schedule including active updates for this communityI contacted the husband and wife team last year and they were super helpful. at the time the unit would have been under $1000 AUD but now with 70GBP shipping and a crappy aussie dollar its not really that affordable (plus GST once I break the 1K mark) and has pushed it out of my price bracked.Im now looking at the ORD bot as its made from "Makerslide" liner rails that should eliminate alot of the z-wobble issues I've seen on other deviceshttp://www.robotronics.com.au/web/products/ord-bot-hadron-mechanical-platformThe guy did have a full kit for around $800 ish, but it seems to have vanished.Still saving.. who knows how the landscape will change by the time I finish saving for it.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 12:53:45 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on January 15, 2014, 07:39:12 amIt's the Makerbot Replicator 2.http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2100 microns = .1mmAs far as I know, it's not alone with this, and several other printers share this resolution.The printer with the .02mm resolution is the Ultimaker 2.https://www.ultimaker.com/pages/our-printers/ultimaker-2Note though that resolution and nozzle width are two different things.By the way, in the end I decided to go with a newly developed printer by Canadian 3d printer company Boots Industries, as price and quality was more important than lead time...It looks like a pretty cool piece of hardware, and does support dual extrusion, and its predecessor was getting rave reviews over the net.They have a kickstarter project for initial manufacture, there are still some printers available for July, some premium offers for June, and all the rest is set to ship in September. It's not a DIY kit, seems superior to the Makerbot in all aspects, and the price tag is pretty awesome.Check it out!http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1784037324/bi-v20-a-self-replicating-high-precision-3d-printe

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 07:41:50 pm
content: That BI-v20's international postage to Australia is double every other listed country

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 12:10:16 am
content: By the way, has anyone here experimented with PVA or HIPS for support? These are soluble plastics (PVA in water, and HIPS in lemonene), and I've seen some demonstrations on the web of complex objects with overhangs created using these filaments... But at the same time I heard about unsuccessful trials too, and as I hear PVA is essentially perishable, it sucks in moisture from the atmosphere and becomes unusable with time...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 06:58:25 pm
content: I just bought the smaller UP! 3d printer, the mini.It has a single extruder and the build size is only 120x120x120 mm but it suits my needs for now. I guess that when I outgrow the possibilities the market will be different from what it is now, and I can make an educated decision about what will be my next model. The store I got it from has a 'no VAT' action going, so I paid only like €780 for it.I have been looking at all these diy projects but reading the stories about how hard it is to get it to work and keep it going stopped me from buying one. This one is easy to set up, and I only had to set the nozzle height. The 3 prints I did until now all came out nice, and I just heard a beep signalling that the 4th one is ready, this should be a lens holder for the E4 thermal camera. Going to have a look now

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 03:58:39 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 01, 2014, 06:58:25 pmLooks like a solid device.And that's a pretty good price too.

author: eengineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 04:23:59 pm
content: I built myself a RepRap MendelMax and have done a ton with it. I 3d printed my glasses frames and put my prescription lenses in them. I have an etsy page where i sell an arduino uno enclosure that i designed and print. ive done a lot of 3d printing aroudn the house as well as trinkets and such.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:26:02 pm
content: Quote from: eengineer on February 03, 2014, 04:23:59 pmSounds like you have quite some experience.I was wondering about the comparative merits of slicers. Which slicer do you use? I'm mostly interested about the quality and ease of removal of rafts and support structures - I heard that the proprierary slicer of the UP! is particularly good at those, and have seen firsthand how abysmal the Makerbot's slicer is (sometimes the supports seem to stick more than integral parts of the object itself)...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: Sigmoid on January 13, 2014, 10:28:06 pmyou mean the contraption made from 20 differnt pieces of broken source code they glued together ?i have printed on an UP! machine and that was pretty painless. the UP slicer isproprietary and developed at some japanse (or was it chines ? korean? it is asian) university. The guys that started UP designed the slicer and the hardware as their masters degree.but in my view output quality of all those sub 3000$ machines is basically junk.they are too complicated, go out of tolerance, peel off during printing and need too much babysitting in general.compare that with a machine that uses powder and sintering.... send file , hit startbutton , wait for complete, clean workpiece. done. works every single time.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 04:15:42 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 04, 2014, 08:39:07 pmHell, even Replicator2s pre-assembled straight out of the Stratasys factory need a buttload of tuning. I've seen one that has a calibration issue like nobody's business and all of its parts are warped. Garbage.

author: eengineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 01:29:32 am
content: I personally use Slic3r. I have one print from an Up printer and the support structure was awesome compared to slic3r/makerbot. the powder printer does very good prints but the machine itself is extremely expensive. I've used the same pair of frames I printed on my FDM plastic printer for months now and havent had issues. any enclosures i print for projects or cell phones have held up as well no issues. in the beginning/ calibration phase it does take babysitting, but once youve tuned it you can make it pretty painless where you just send it to the printer and let it print away. my instagram is instagram.com/i_live_in_3D i have some pics/videos of my prints on there

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 06:52:49 pm
content: I've seen the tree support structures Autodesk's Meshmixer does... They seem pretty awesome.In fact, it seems to outperform the damn zigzaggy rectangular supports that all the slicers make, in almost all aspects... Check out the ready built rabbit model in the end of the vid!