Apple's vaporizer patent - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 10:26:39 pm
content: So what Apple is trying to monopolize, iSmoke industry or SMT reflow method?https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B17ouiv-zhD0Skpwd1ZwR2Y3Y2s/view

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 10:35:33 pm
content: They're bringing the iSmell onto the market? And the iStink for use with the iPhone?

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 10:37:02 pm
content: Apple is on my list of "Companies the world would be better without" right next to Microsoft, EA, Sony, and a few others.Who knows, maybe they will be selling a 900$ IHumidifier for people who are sick bedridden of their products.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 10:49:53 pm
content: Presumably notthis Tetsuya Ishikawa?This doesn't look suitable for SMT reflow, as it is all sealed up and has no chamber doors. Why does Apple want to vaporize things? I really don't know.Is it the first step toPre-Crime?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 10:53:33 pm
content: Quote from: NottheDan on January 30, 2017, 10:35:33 pmRight, you will be able to assign a good smell to your boss's caller ID.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2017, 12:00:45 am
content: It has been 30 or more years since Apple was an innovation company. They are an IP company. It would be interesting to see the size of their legal payroll vs their engineering payroll.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 01:38:35 am
content: It's been a while since I worked for the fruit company, but I'm pretty sure engineering outnumbers legal by a huge factor. Don't forget that software engineering requires enormous manpower.Remember,engineeringisn't only needed for radical innovation, but also for evolutionary, incremental improvement. Heck, if anything, engineering is entirely separate fromresearch. Researchers aren't product designers, after all...

author: switchedmodepsu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 03:26:29 am
content: Until you have read the whole of Jony Ive's biography:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jony-Ive-Genius-Greatest-Products/dp/0670923249I don't count anyone as qualified to be making judgements or criticisms of how Apple designs and markets their products, nor what they know or don't know. If you want to inform yourselves, read that book - you'll learn A LOT. Then again, you could just NOT, and sit on forums and rant - that's far easier, and what most people will do because everyone wants to talk much and think little.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 03:46:20 am
content: Until you've read and understood the whole of thePrincipia Mathematica, please don't comment on any technical forums. You just aren't qualified.

author: switchedmodepsu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 03:53:36 am
content: Quote from: helius on February 07, 2017, 03:46:20 amI'll send you my address, bring your books and some coffee, you can read it to me as I am sunbathing, I'll pay you to clean the pool when you've finished.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 04:04:51 am
content: After a quick read of the patent this appears to be a patent on a method of more accurate control of vaporization of a chemical. This has many applications in industry. This has nothing to do with smoking vapor. It appears to be legitimate from just a preliminary view. Typically these types of patents are totally vague as to their actual application and only pertain to the method and apparatus employed.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 01:00:44 pm
content: And besides, only a small fraction of the patents most companies file for are ever used in products. It's just legal CYA in case they do use it, so that other companies don't sue them for infringement.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 01:22:11 pm
content: Hm... Apple getting in on the marijuana revolution, with Apple Stores doubling as marijuana dispensaries and coffeeshops... It would be weirdly fitting with the image and history of the company, actually...

author: MrOmnos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 01:46:20 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on January 30, 2017, 10:37:02 pmSay what you want but we wouldn't have everything we have today with out these companies. Except for EA, I don't what they have accomplished but I do play fifa sometimes.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 02:43:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 07, 2017, 01:00:44 pmApple also landmines areas their competitors are moving into with patents which clearly have no R&D behind it.Although that doesn't seem the case here.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 05:25:09 pm
content: Quote from: MrOmnos on February 07, 2017, 01:46:20 pmYea, but without them we would have things likeFree universal Linux based operating systems providing a common ground for computing that allows you to do what you want with your hardwareCompanies like PopCap, Rareware, and Maxis still out and doing what they do best.A market of hardware that is actually good and allows you to, oh, run your own applications on it?We wouldn't have Origin.As well as the god awful gaming consoles that have little to no power, and games that run at piss poor resolutions and frame-rates.What would we lose?Windows, which nobody likes.iOS, which is barbaric and restrictiveTrumped up prices on crappy hardwareOrigin.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 06:56:40 pm
content: are they finally taking the fart app to the next level?

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 02:25:29 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 07, 2017, 05:25:09 pm"iOS, which is barbaric and restrictive""barbaric"? Hmm, odd turn of phrase for binary code. Also, who told you it was "open" (they don't make such a pretense, unlike Google) - it's a beautiful piece of design for the average man to use - most users see iPhone or iPad as an appliance, not a hacker's toy. Who promised you a playground to frolic in? Not Apple, SECURITY and respect for users is their objective.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 04:05:34 am
content: I don't think taking a 30% cut of all applications is done so much from a respect for users, as a healthy self-interest.Anyway, Apple love is like Apple hate, both hopelessly obsolete. Apple is a dinosaur, and already irrelevant.Why Tim Cook == Steve Ballmer

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 05:10:40 am
content: Quote from: helius on February 08, 2017, 04:05:34 amSo, a GIGANTIC customer base for FREE, the potential to make millions of dollars, and you don't want to pay Apple ANYTHING for them selling your product on their platform? You are an idiot.Apple is "irrelevant"? Yeah, the most profitable company in business - you are clearly not so hot on maths and economics.Would you like a permanent shop in all the HUGE American shopping malls, and expect never to pay ANY rent or taxes, also?DUH!You have HUGE denial issues, Sir.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 03:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: helius on February 08, 2017, 04:05:34 amJust how small do you think traditional software distributors (in the days of physical media) used to take as a cut? 10%? 20%?Try 80% and up.How much do you think modern online distributors (like Digital River or Cleverbridge) charge? They don't do it for free, you know.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 03:53:08 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on February 08, 2017, 02:25:29 amSecurity I might grant you, they're as good as their competitors and kudos to them for resisting the US intelligence agencies but 'respect' for users?Perhaps respect for their wallets...I'm not saying they're the worst company out there, but they definitely rank in the top five.Won't discuss the practice of 'bricking' your hardware if you try to have it repaired by anyone apart from them or their planned and enforced obsolescence or any number of other things that make Apple at best utterly disrespectful of their users.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 04:05:34 pm
content: The new iHigh. They needed a new money making idea.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 04:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 03:53:08 pmThe "bricking" which was basically a POST error when using third party parts? (Parts dealing with encryption no less, which kinda sorta maybe plays into security, ya know?)Enforced obsolescence like providing annual iPhone OS upgrades for 4 years, when Android phones are lucky if they get even one upgrade?Yes, that sure sounds just awful.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 05:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2017, 04:49:02 pmHaving been on the wrong end of legal action from Apple when I used to run a department that repaired Apple motherboards using *genuine* Apple chips, I think I can reasonably say from experience that Apple are a deeply unpleasant company if they think someone might be making money from repairing their stuff and it has *nothing* to do with security but everything to do with locking users into the ecosystem.Upgrades that remove features such as SIRI on older phones are a little unfair wouldn't you say?Replacing an LCD but, importantly, not the home button should brick your phone when you upgrade because 'security'?Android, my HTC One received many OS upgrades during its lifetime, in fact it was a little over 4 years old when I retired it on Monday this week and was running Marshmallow, the limiting factor for upgrades on an awful lot of Android devices isn't the developers but the carriers, the same ones who bend over for Apple when they enforce retail pricing on their products.So, yeah, Apple, deeply unpleasant and anti competition.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 07:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2017, 04:49:02 pmAndroid phone developers certainly can be quite awful about providing software upgrades if you were unlucky enough to choose the wrong model but Apple DID play with enforced obsolescence. I still have an iPad1 that's nigh on unusable due to the latest update it got.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:10:44 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 05:16:29 pmAnd how is MS better? I have customer complaining since they need to shell out 2K permonthfor server stuff (stupid per core database licenses!), since they got locked in SQL*Server sh*t. Try moving that to a different platformI agree, Apple is not always the best (and im not particular happy they way they are moving...). But neither Google or MS is. I guess Apple is the smartest, they dontneedto be biggest. They laugh their ass off, making a ton of money of the h/w, while others are happy with a sh*tty tip. And that with a hand-full of models.And on the (Apple) upside, after 10 years, I never ever installed my OS more the once (yearly with MS), and everyday im still happy using OSX.Anyway, the billion $ question, who is?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 05:16:29 pmWhat I consider unfair is you making up a story about Siri being removed from older phones. No iOS update ever removed Siri from phones that once had it; they simply never back-ported it to phones that shipped without it. (Not talking about the Siri app that existed until Apple bought it; since it was not an OS feature, it wasn't really integrated, it was similar to the Hound app now.)I still have my old iPhone 4S, the model that introduced Siri. And running the latest supported iOS, Siri is still working fine. I do NOT appreciate you supporting your narrative with lies.Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 05:16:29 pmA) When the home button is a fingerprint sensor with an encrypted data link, you damned well want it secured out the wazoo. If the LCD was replaced, and the original home button retained, no problems ever occurred.B) When no-name replacement home buttons/fingerprint sensors failed to authenticate during a phone restore, it wasn't a deliberate bricking but an unhandled error, as evidenced by it producing a generic error, rather than a specific one. Apple fixed this bug in an update.Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 05:16:29 pmI'm fully aware that the carriers are a significant (but in no way primary) cause of lack of Android updates. (Here in Europe, where carriers generally don't modify phone software on Android, you still have lack of upgrades on most Android phones, so I place more blame on the handset makers.)

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:45:57 pm
content: Tooki, I wrote a whole reply to your invective based around my *PERSONAL* experience of Apple products but it's absolutely obvious that you are completely addicted to the Apple ecosystem and will defend it beyond the point of truth, so, I'm ducking out of this now.Bye.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:47:44 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on February 08, 2017, 08:10:44 pmDidn't mention MS, Oracle, Linux or any other manufacturer, has nothing to do with hardware and is all about careful planning of software licensing so that's really a rather irrelevant point.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:48:54 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 08:45:57 pmOh, right, so calling you out on actual fabrication of a lie makes me "addicted"? Whatever. I'm addicted to the TRUTH, and will not indulge your fandroid fantasies. You accusing me of ignoring the truth doesn't change the fact that everything I've said is readily verifiable, unlike your claims.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:52:44 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on February 08, 2017, 08:47:44 pmWell software or hardware. You said Apple is locking in its users (via its ecosystem). And i'm trying to say, isn't that what everybody does?

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 09:23:36 pm
content: I guess I can understand someone being bitter about Apple after getting into trademark litigation land with them (as far as I understand, their main beef with unauthorized service providers is unauthorized trademark use, not anything they do to Apple devices).All big companies do shit like that. Even small ones do quite often. If I want to guess who's closer to the truth, I'd say having had legal trouble, gotten a hit to one's livelihood, and therefore being royally pissed off at Apple might be a bigger emotional distortion factor than simply "being addicted to the ecosystem", lol.Anyway as someone who's been using Apple products for 10 years now, I can say I'm more satisfied with their attitude, respect and support than with any other tech company I've been in contact with. I've had post-warranty iPhones and Macs repaired in third-party repair shops, with no issues at all. I've replaced RAM myself in Macbook Pros after careful compatibility checking, with no issues at all. I've had a post-warranty MBP repaired in an Apple store, and they were quick, professional, gave me almost as much warranty on the machine as if I had bought it new.As for planned obsolescence, it's really one of those bogeymen that people like to wave around. I really doubt there was actual malicious intent in slowing down old devices, and recent iOS upgrades have actually gotten far easier on old hardware.Sure I'm not saying Apple doesn't do anything wrong. They do plenty wrong, like what kind of idiot designs a zero-travel keyboard into a productivity notebook computer, and then is actually proud of the nasty thing... And who can forget the hilarity of bendgate... but ultimately, if I have to choose between Apple or Samsung, then clearly Apple. If between Apple and MS, then clearly Apple (I did defend Win10 against the tinfoil hat crowd, but ultimately I'm far from satisfied with them)... If between Apple and Google, well, there is just no question there, Apple sees me as a customer, Google sees me as a product.Is Apple a big company doing evil shit that big companies do? Sure... but if I look at it from a plain customer perspective, Apple seems to be at least a bit better than its competitors.

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 10:41:06 pm
content: Willful misunderstanding and bias is STRONG in here. Shouldn't you all just, ohhh - I dunno - grow up?The more I hear "opinions" online, the more I see how utterly and willfully pig ignorant people are, going out on a limb JUST to make sure you know they ARE "right".The "in a nutshell" take away is that all the jealous, angry, enraged people can't STAND the fact that maybe, just maybe, Apple are a decent and successful company with the best intentions, one run by humans who ALL make errors of judgement, but they don't want that to be the case, and spend MONTHS of their lives wasting time arguing with unknowns about a company that, if they were man enough to be brutally honest, they have neglected to spend any time or energy into actually getting to know things about.People always mock what they fear, and fear the unknown. Instead of spending time in a neutral, humble position and investigating how Apple work, how they think and manage, how they design and market their products, they'd rather take the EASY option and just slag them off because it "feels good" and it satisfies their uncontrollable urge to rant and "put the world to rights".Morons.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 11:08:12 pm
content: sigmoid's post is right on the money. I've been using Apple products continually since the Apple II and MS stuff since pre-Windows. I've used both Apple and Windows computers professionally. Currently I keep 5 Macs and 7 Windows machines up and running at home. Work is fully Windows based these days.As far as devices go, we've got 7 iOS devices and 3 Android devices at home right now.Apple hardware is robust. Full stop. We've got 12 year old Macs still getting daily use and our old iPhones are passed down to the kids for games and media. I've got an iPhone 3S still being used as a music server for a small stereo. With all the abuse the kids hand out only 1 iPhone has ever broken a screen or otherwise been made unusable. We've discarded several broken or otherwise unusable Android devicesApple has changed for the worse the past few years and I'm no fan of their corporate practices but net-net they're less bad than the other giant tech companies IMHO. And BTW, I was burned by them badly - losing several thousand investment dollars - years ago when their lawyers crushed a small company in a patent dispute (Burst) after they stole their IP. IOW, I have no illusions about their relative "goodness".

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 03:29:34 am
content: I agree. Apple hardware is generally very good, and the software system works well.But I do lose it when Apple fanatics talk about how superior it is, how easy to use and so on. It is just like any other complex environment. You have to know quite a bit to make it work well. And most proficient users of any of the major systems have forgotten the early part of their learning curve. Thus you have proponents of each major system (Windows, Apple and Linux) telling others who have difficulty coming up to speed that they are idiots, and that the system they use is obviously superior. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.I also developed a strong distaste for Apple in their patent wars over look and feel of the interface, back when windowing operating systems were new to the desktop. They killed GEM and probably would have killed Windows if MS didn't have Excel and Word to horse trade with. Overlapping windows vs tiled windows. Curved corners on windows. Re-entrant windows. I am surprised they didn't try to patent and protect grey windows. All after getting the basic idea from Xerox. None of that was anything the patent system was intended encourage or protect. Copyright maybe, but not patent.

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 04:19:51 am
content: .

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 05:40:04 am
content: Design patents and technology patents are two very different things and should not be confused. The rounded corners thing was part of a design patent.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 05:54:26 am
content: It was by the way a design patent on literally just a rectangle shape with rounded corners (features significant to the patent were indicated, only the outline was indicated).A bloody rectangle with rounded corners.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 11:54:13 am
content: Yet roundrects were, legitimately, a huge innovation at the time. No other computer GUI did them, and they were computationally non-trivial compared to rectangles.Here's a fascinating read on their history at Apple:http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt&showcomments=1

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 04:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 09, 2017, 11:54:13 amHuge innovation? I can almost hear the "incredible transparency in delivering content information to the user without alteration" from an audiophool.While I agree that they are more difficult to generate computationally than square windows, you could say the same thing about beveled corners (which for all I know Apple has a design patent on.) From a user point of view who cares how difficult it is? Round is more difficult so it is better than bevels? The Apple coders get kudos for an efficient implementation, but that is kind of like rewarding the manufacturing engineer who comes up with an more efficient way to manufacture low oxygen, sound annealed audio cables and then claiming that as justification for the cables themselves.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 01:41:53 am
content: Again, they didn't actually patent the idea of roundrects, but roundrects were part of the design patent on the look and feel of the Mac system software. Big distinction there.Since it's necessary to spell everything out in excruciating near-legalese precision for the pedantic pissants this forum has so many of: I should have specified that it was a huge technical innovation for a GUI of the day to support roundrects as a GUI primitive.Everyone else's buttons back then were rectangular, not beveled, by the way. We are talking about before GUIs came in color after all.Not that any of this matters to Apple haters, since they're convinced Apple didn't do anything to push the envelope of computing, and like audiophools, Apple haters are only emboldened when confronted with pesky things like "facts".

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 04:08:26 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 10, 2017, 01:41:53 amWithout Apple, smartphones would still be in the dark ages, you'd have no iPads and we'd all be FORCED to use Windows... oh no, actually, we wouldn't... how could I forgetthatThis user has been banned - multiple user Troll on this forum (switchedmodepsu, glossywhite, wintendo, asskong, iamwhoiam, rolandpenplotter, unlokia)

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 12:20:29 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 10, 2017, 01:41:53 amhttps://www.google.com/patents/USD670286

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 05:05:13 pm
content: I guess you got me. Apple DID push the boundaries of computing! I mean gee, before the roundrect I had real difficulty doing my circuit layouts on the computer, but after them it was easy. When doing visual compositions artists were able to do things never done before because of those rounded corners. And typists laying out the user manuals suddenly made them much more comprehensible and easy to use. And so much better than a 45 degree cut off corner would have been (not beveled buttons, that is something else altogether).And yeah, it is this kind of hyperbole that gets under my skin. I guess that makes me an Apple hater.I have used a variety of Apple products since the Mac128. Apple makes good products. They have done good things. And some things that are controversial in terms of benefit. Their enforced definition of relationships between physical scales and representation on screens and printers made things easier for many end users and reduced interface errors. It also was a barrier to entry for many innovative products and ideas.The inverse of an Apple hater, an Apple lover or an Apple apologist worships everything that Apple has done.One way to detect an Apple lover - they are the ones who touted the incredible superiority of the 68K architecture until - wait for it - the Intel architecture was the obvious right way to go.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 08:41:42 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on February 10, 2017, 12:20:29 pmAgain, that's adesignpatent (that is, the look of a product), not a patent on the idea of roundrects. You guys seriously need to learn the difference.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 08:48:18 pm
content: You can spin it any way you like, but when I say they patented rounded corners I am factually correct ... and it's bloody retarded.They sued partly based on this patent by the way.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 09:21:44 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on February 10, 2017, 08:48:18 pmIt is only retarded if you keep on failing to understand what a design patent is and how it differs from a utility patent.And no, it is NOT factually correct that they patented rounded corners. They registered a design patent on a design thatincludedrounded corners.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 10:49:58 am
content: "The broken lines in the Figures show portions of the portable display device which form no part of the claimed design."

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:13:27 am
content: In other words, this particular design patent doesn't cover the design of the display bezel. Whooptiedoo.I mean, if you're gonna go after design patents, then go after Fluke for patenting yellow surrounding dark gray.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:24:35 am
content: The outer rectangle with rounded corners is an unbroken line. It covers an outer rectangle with rounded corners with a display in it.Rounded corners are functional and as your earlier quote on roundrects helpfully explained, bloody everywhere. They are a functional necessity, because no one wants to have to deal with sharp corners every day. Yellow surrounded by dark grey is not a functional necessity.This patent was bloody retarded, it shouldn't have been granted, it shouldn't have been requested and it bloody well shouldn't be defended.