New: Signal Hound SM200A 20GHz SA - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2017, 08:07:16 pm
content: New 20GHz real time SA announced from Signal Hound. Still a way from being ready I expect.Phase noise spec (@1GHz) 10kHz: -130dBc/Hz40MHz bandwidth - but maybe more with compression later.They are demoing it at IMS.https://signalhound.com/ims-2017/No doubt out of my price range though. Edit: yep - $11900 USD

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2017, 08:32:31 pm
content: According to the site it looks like August 2017 release date.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 02:11:02 am
content: Pretty nice looking, if a little bit sharp:

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 02:12:48 am
content: Here's some more details on timing:"As of right now we’re on target for sales availability around September of 2017, with units shipping in October.Pricing is $11,900.00 USD. It’s a bit more than our other devices, but it’s competing with stuff priced north of $80,000.00. Stay posted for news. We’ll be keeping you updated as the device moves along. We currently have only one working device, but it’s working really well 🙂 I mean, really well. This thing’s pretty cool. Oh, and we only have one working device, but we’ve got stock for full production. Just perfecting it a bit more before sending it out the door 😉We should have a video or two posted with some more info soon. "

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 01:17:12 am
content: It appears Signal Hound follows their established tradition to not specify the input port impedance / return loss. I applaud their prolonged persistence to keep it a well guarded secret for some unknown reason.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 08:34:54 am
content: Quote from: Bud on June 10, 2017, 01:17:12 amIts just a preliminary datasheet, hopefully it will be in the full datasheet when it comes out.Return loss was average for the SA devices at least. They recommend using an external attenuator when it matters:https://signalhound.com/support/forums/topic/calibration-for-measuring-return-loss/

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 08:36:41 am
content: Maybe there is a teardown in our future...https://signalhound.com/news/ims-day-3-wrapping-it-all-up/

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 03:25:35 pm
content: What is the POI in the RTBW of this device?

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 07:36:55 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 10, 2017, 03:25:35 pmNo idea, but this might be an interesting read about how US export regulations forced a change to the BB60C:https://signalhound.com/news/how-we-implemexport-controls/

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:27:09 pm
content: lmfao I almost bought that piece of shit.sales bowed to the govt and nerfed the features.. disgustingThat article makes me feel that this is done to ALL units, not just units meant for sale outside of the country. I guess I should talk to sales before I talk too much shit.I hate stuff like that, because it makes buying second hand goods difficult (now you need to find out what software revision it is, etc) Does anyone know for sure?Anyone hacked it? Fucking military.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 07:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 15, 2017, 03:27:09 pmYeah artificial limitations are pretty suck. The limitation only applies when you are using frequency mask triggering.There is a comment below that story which says its for all devices.Not SH specific as obviously other companies are playing by the same rules - but maybe have a different implementation.Not sure how feasible it would be to sell products for the US only - I'm guessing the US government would stomp on that due to the ease of redirecting the products out of the country.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 07:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on June 15, 2017, 03:27:09 pmTo be fair, if you readthe penaltiesfor ignoring these export restrictions, then this situation is less of a collaboration between a company and a government and more of a business protecting itself against catastrophic action which could shut down their entire business for just a few individual violations.I'm not sure which penalty applies where, but it looks like it could be $20,000,000 per violation plus 20 years in jail. considering that is 1000x the rough cost of the device (plus 20 years in jail)... I think they have no choice.I agree that it's absurd though. I'm sure any bad guys could get this equipment elsewhere.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 11:21:08 pm
content: proboboly means the CIA uses espionage devices that use ultra fast pulse transmission.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 06:03:21 am
content: BB60CEdit: Sorry, posted accidentally when was searching

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 06:09:42 am
content: Quote from: D3f1ant on July 18, 2017, 06:03:21 am

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 08:32:38 am
content: Found this on their site:https://signalhound.com/sm200a/says retail in January.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 10:43:47 am
content: ITAR is no joke. In 2007 several Mitutoyo execs went to jail for selling precision measuring equipment that eventually ended up in Libya or Syria or something. Large precision machine tools will lock you out of the controls if you move the machine even to the other side of the shop. You need to get an unlock code from the factory to get it going again. Companies don’t add these restrictions for a giggle, they do it because their executives face prison time if they don’t.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 02:06:59 pm
content: and then what? any other country who can build such restriction deserves an military invasion? or an advertisement/entitlement as a terrorist? only america can build WMD.. oh wait, russia can too, not because they can, but because their clinging balls are no smaller than america the military...

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 07:40:48 pm
content: It’s called non proliferation. It doesn’t stop people building whatever they want, it just slows them down. Imagine trying to build an advanced radar or something without access to digikey or decent test gear

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:23:42 pm
content: New update I got from their mailing list (site was also updated to Feb 2018 shipping before this):https://signalhound.com/news/adventures-in-hardware-design-the-case-of-our-missing-20-ghz-spectrum-analyzer-the-sm200aQuote

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2018, 09:01:24 pm
content: Looks like they released it:https://signalhound.com/products/sm200a-20-ghz-real-time-spectrum-analyzer/Pre-orders right now are expected to be released in April.QuoteDatasheet:https://signalhound.com/download/sm200a-data-sheet/

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2018, 09:21:04 pm
content: Pretty damn fine.Really hoping that Shahriar gets one.

author: Alegor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 10:22:33 pm
content: Artificial limitations are easy to overcome by using appropriate software. RadioInspector, for instance. Any type of thresholds and triggering, furthermore, IQ analyzis and demodulation of digital communication standards.

author: Alegor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 10:26:02 pm
content: Quote from: hendorog on March 01, 2018, 09:21:04 pmWe are also still waiting for his review of our software. It looks like he is very-very busy, and once again very.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 09:19:28 pm
content: Quote from: Alegor on March 21, 2018, 10:22:33 pmI see that your RadioInspector now supports the Tek USB-RSAs - very cool.

author: Alegor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 23, 2018, 07:37:05 pm
content: Yes, both devices - BB60C and Tek306B have some advantages in respect to each other, but both are very cost effective.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2018, 08:06:52 pm
content: What I would like to find out is whether the "intentional crippling" of the SM200A to conform with US export regulations is just a limitation in their control software. In other words, if I don't use their control software and use their API directly, am I going to be still subject to this crippling? I'm seriously considering buying this SA, it's at the top of my list of choices.To be honest, I would probably never need the low POI that is being crippled, but I feel a little annoyed, because here I have to pay 40% more than somebody in the USA, and I get less SA in return ...

author: Alegor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 23, 2018, 09:11:32 pm
content: Quote from: taydin on March 23, 2018, 08:06:52 pmIt's a good question. In concerning to the information on that page all restrictions added to Spike. We still have no sm200a and the support of this instrument is not included yet, hence we didn't make tests.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2018, 10:12:22 pm
content: Quote from: taydin on March 23, 2018, 08:06:52 pmIt is only software for BB60C, basically it is limit in Spike, not BB60C. It was clearly stated by SignalHound. If you use API or other application (instead of Spike) you have full speed POI..But BB60C does no processing whatsoever inside unit, it's only digitizer, all is done on PC. They are saying there is no analysis inside SM200, so it might be the same as for BB60...RegardsSinisa

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 01:05:37 am
content: Quote from: taydin on March 23, 2018, 08:06:52 pmYou may pay more than someone in the US, but I believe you will get the same SA.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 01:29:06 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 23, 2018, 10:12:22 pmcan you stream that much data through a USB link ? I thought it would have to do some preprocessing on a FPGA but I don't know shit

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 01:59:53 am
content: Quote from: CopperCone on March 24, 2018, 01:29:06 amI thought I read somewhere that the SM200A has to do some compression in the FPGA to squeeze the maximum RT bandwidth through the USB connection.There is some limit/mask stuff in the datasheet, where you can get up to 20MHz streamed from a 160MHz total available bandwidth. That must need to be done on the FPGA.Also they advertise that you can 'insert' your own DSP algorithm using the API. Would be great if they run on the FPGA, but I don't know if that is the intention.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 03:16:33 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on March 24, 2018, 01:59:53 amThere's a comment in the datasheet or elsewhere that says that you get 160MHz realtime for "sparse spectrum", indicating that there must be some kind of compression going on with the IQ stream. When the 160MHz span gets busy or densely occupied, sounds like you won't get the full 160MHz realtime over the USB3.0 link. 40MHz realtime BW is about the limit for USB3.0 without compression if using decent resolution (12-14 bit) data.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 11:07:02 am
content: I 'm sure BB60C streams data fully without any processing. SM200 would need some data compression, but that wouldn't necessarily interfere with POI.Although, for SM200, deliberate, hardware based POI restrictions could be made, if requested from up high ....

author: Alegor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 25, 2018, 11:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 24, 2018, 11:07:02 amYes, BB60C's IQ flow is not compressed, but SM200A has some restrictions:"Sparse Spectrum I/Q Streaming: Users may load a mask, baseline,or threshold to reject signals below User-Defined Amplitude Leve ls(UDAL) and stream signals that are above the UDAL. The aggregat etotal of active streaming bandwidth is maintained at 20 MHz of the 160MHz stare, or IBW (Instantaneous Bandwidth). The quantity of activesegments selected are regulated with a dynamic UDAL offset to en sureaggregate system bandwidth does not exceed the 20 MHz limit.".

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2018, 06:22:50 am
content: Quote from: Alegor on March 25, 2018, 11:36:15 pm@Alegor,Thanks for clarification..By the way, RadioInspector looks really impressive..Regards,Sinisa

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 07:52:54 pm
content: I would love to see a review together with teardown inside and big tests.After that, the price is a bit high ...Of course, in the price with Tek Key devices etc ... lower price, however ...

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 06:25:38 am
content: I hope they send one to Signal Path youtube channel.That would be smartest,best advertising they could do.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 06:59:38 am
content: Quote from: fonograph on August 07, 2018, 06:25:38 amI am pretty sure he has one, he mentioned it in a vid.There is a clue on this page...https://signalhound.com/news/category/ims-2017/

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 08:47:51 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on August 07, 2018, 06:59:38 amThats great! I would love to see Shariar review the SM200A,I would love to see Dave review it too but he isnt much into this RF & microwave stuff.

author: Omicron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 05:12:31 pm
content: This device has been on the market for some time now. Does anyone have some practical experience with it? Is it really as good as they claim it to be or are there limitations or drawbacks that aren't quite apparent at first glance?