Drafting tools and machines - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2020, 03:52:54 am
content: I'm not sure which category these things belong. So I made my best guess.I was trained to draw circuits and do panel designs on traditional drafting table with machines, campus, caliper, and pencils. Some may find antiquated and odd, but this is the most comfortable way to do these things. If you don't know what drafting machines are, it's a mid size table with tilt function, and there are arms go up and down, and side ways. Variable angle knob was connected to it, and you can adjust your L shaped ruler at any angle.I'd like to start with purchasing GOOD quality hand tools. Compus, caliper, etc, comes to mind. There has to be a gear at the top and points must meet EXACTLY. Mine was like that but it is now well worn. Every new one advertises "incredible quality", "highest quality", "professional grade" for $30.... Can't be! I recall spending $100 or more for one.Can anyone recommend a reliable source for new and well-taken-care-of used ones? Brand doesn't matter as long as quality is there.Obviously, next step is a sturdy and flat table, then drafting machine. But that'll have to be a next step.Please do not suggest using CAD. This is my hobby. I like doing it this way.Oh, by the way.... I prefer metric for everything, but it would be wonderful if scales had two sides, one for metric and the other side for imperial. I actually had one like that when I was in Japan.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2020, 03:58:25 am
content: For a drafting machine keep an eye on Gumtree, Craigslist or whatever second hand market pages you have where you are.I've seen drafting machines on a stand (so you won't need a table) go very cheap when companies clean out their back storage room that has not been accessed for a few decades.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2020, 04:27:25 am
content: I remember the old companies, Keuffel and Esser, Dietzgen, and others. I somewhat recently gave away most of my manual drafting tools. I got the compass back so I could draw Smith chart circles but now I don't need that so I will give it away again.It was a lot of fun. I had a small drawing board, a T square (never could justify spending for a drafting machine), triangles, scales, protractor, French curve, hole template, other templates for electronic symbols, lots more. Plenty of drawing pencils, both wood and those that took lead. Erasing shields and erasers. India ink and pens.I have no idea whether that stuff is still manufactured. Or what happened to those old line companies.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2020, 12:54:31 pm
content: Yes, they are still manufactured. New one seems to be coming from India. From looks of it, they do not look too sturdy.I'm looking for either US or Japanese made one which I have actual experience. Ebay is full of them. Only thing is, with age, I don't know how much backlash they'd have. Same for drafting tables. A lot of new ones are made of glass. I don't want that. I want one with melamine surface kind with very study base.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2020, 08:22:00 pm
content: It appears that Mutoh still has these in production! Here is a link:https://www.mutoh-hd.co.jp/en/outline/drafter.html.I believe the last time I used one was in high school in the late 1970's and it actually was a Mutoh if I remember correctly. You might need to import one yourself as I've never seen a new one for sale in the last couple of decades or so.Quote from: tkamiya on September 12, 2020, 12:54:31 pmDrafting tables are a bit harder as it isn't clear if they sell a complete system. Mutoh's web site leaves a lot to be desired. A DIY table may be your only choice if you want a fresh solution. If you have a hard time finding a decent drafting table by looking for "drafting table", consider alternative searches like "artists table", "tilt table" and the like.I know that there are a lot of used machine floating about but as you indicate unless you can inspect them, the condition if highly variable to guess upon. Sadly I suspect that these went into the trash by the thousands as CAD became affordable. It is a bit frustrating. As for "drawing" I might do CAD for a technical drawing but i find paper and pencil much faster for sketches and such. I'm not sure if today's generation can even sketch on paper.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2020, 08:52:38 pm
content: Yup, that's the exact same one I trained on and used at my very first job. In the 70s, everything was a la carte. Base table, table-top, and mechanism had to be purchased as line items. One could choose electric everything or manual base model. They were expensive, too.I recall they were incredibly delicate. A good bump will knock it off alignment and will never be the same. As part of my training, I learned how to align it but will it hold that alignment is a big question. Ones in school never did. I guess I'm used to doing it this way buy I believe CAD are not really meant for a design process while I think and draw at the same time. It sure is nice for a final design though.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2020, 10:30:16 pm
content: Some of those drafting tools look as if they could be very useful in making probes for use with logic analyzers, MSOs, etc.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2020, 10:32:45 pm
content: Before you know it, someone shows up with a pair of stepper motors....

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2020, 03:11:14 am
content: I believe one of the engineers at work still has a fully working drafting table in his office. I'm not sure it gets used for drafting much any more (I'm not even sure what brand it is) but it is a great place to tape up a large paper drawing for a discussion amongst engineers. Far better than a 34" CAD screen.Quote from: tkamiya on September 13, 2020, 08:52:38 pmOn more than one occasion I've had to go out and figure out the electrical system on equipment with no schematic. Paper and pencil sketches beats CAD in these cases almost every time. From these you can then piece together a working CAD drawing but the ability to sketch is a life saver. Frankly guys that can sketch often make better CAD drawings.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2020, 04:21:07 am
content: I'm seeing LOTS of drafting machine mechanism coming in from India, new, cheap. It's the pantograph type, not the XY type, and the rods are much thinner than what I remember. I'm sort of thinking there isn't much to lose by going this route. I'm not good at machining, so DIYing this and get any sort of precision is way out of question.In out days, drafting machines are all we had. Autocad first appeared some 20 years later? Now Open software type CAD are everywhere. I actually have a workstation suitable for it. (dual Xeon, 43" display) But I still prefer back of envelope to start thinking about things. I really never learned to use CAD. (maybe I should...) I'm starting to have a folder full of envelopes. I better draw it well somehow, or else I won't know what I did.Back then, I even did PCB design on drafting machine. It was a great thing to have. I'm so glad Mutoh is still in business. For how much longer do they produce these, I think days are numbered. They probably sell plotters far more than drafting machines. I'm hoping one day, I'll walk into antique store and I'll bump into one. Shipping these is pretty much impossible without factory cartons. Sure enough, almost all Ebay sellers demand pickup only.I still have some of the drafting set and templates from back in the days.Another needs I have is, I do my own framing for photography. Measuring and drawing cut lines on back of mat board is pain. Drafting machine will simplify it so much, not to mention a big flat surface that's bump free.

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2020, 08:10:30 am
content: If you are in the Dallas Texas area, CDC Surplus in Richardson has some drafting stuff. At one time they had a couple of drafting machines.