Know about any books, websites or tutorials on RF board design? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cognito
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 29, 2013, 05:15:54 pm
content: Hello!Do any of you brilliant guys (and hopefully girls) know any good sources for acquiring knowledge about RF PCB design?I have some plans about a PCB which involves the integration of wireless ZigBee at 2.4 GHz. It is not for any other purposes than own learning and joy, but I also want it to be as good as possible.A good, basic book would be preferable =)I don't know if this question has been submitted before. If it has, I didn't find it.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2013, 07:57:57 pm
content: Might be a little basic but this is solid for a starthttp://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/info_BK_RADIOINTRO.html

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2013, 08:03:16 pm
content: There is very little that I've seen in print. Most is either too simple to be of much benefit or very specialized, which is fine if you're studying that specialization but otherwise unnecessary. Most Rf ICs have decent application notes and an example layout. so a single Zigbee chip shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

author: Cognito
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 17, 2013, 07:08:09 pm
content: Thank you both for your suggestions! I'll try to get the introduction book

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2013, 08:35:11 pm
content: These may be interesting:http://ntuemc.tw/index.php?node=RF-microwavehttp://ntuemc.tw/index.php?node=microwave-filter

author: Cognito
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 29, 2013, 05:57:39 pm
content: Thanks

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2013, 02:57:35 am
content: Read the app notes from the chip makers. That's where you'll find the specifics for the transceiver or SoC you're using. Ti has a whole section of their website dedicated to low power rf. They have complete reference designs they expect you to copy. These chips are very well characterized, all the engineering is done already. The rf front ends just need to be dropped into your PCB layout software then build the board to their stack up specs.It would be very hard to do this from scratch yourself. You would need to be a senior engineer specialist and have access to a very expensive lab and kit. The specs are very precise and their designs are designed to match.Also read the app notes on PCB layout in general, high-speed signals and design for EMI.Do you have a Zigbee SoC in mind?

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2013, 05:02:32 am
content: Oh great now I have to be a "senior engineer specialist" too!Love it when a title is used to redefine a job people have been doing for years.A assume all you want to do is make a form fit a radiator that fits the purchased modules characterization.If so you can do it with some knowledge and some not so main-stream equipment.It takes a while, and if you are perfectly matched within 20 prototypes I think you can call yourself capable.I was going to direct you to a book called "The RF Engineer".It's and old book used when I learned this stuff.I can't give you the ISBN, it was landed out and never came back.It is a good starting point if you can find it.And the author has a sense of humour which makes it easier to read.One pointer I will pass on, for making an integrated radiator. Once you have a -9db radiator. Include the real or simulate circuits within double the interference plane. The math says it should be negligible but really it isn't. This still applies if you use a previously spec'd pattern. Test it first before you commit. They will/should give you the interference plane, double it and test, or be prepared for gotchas. And if you don't I hope the gotcha isn't a show stopper.If you have access cage helps a lot but not mandatory.

author: TommyGunn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2013, 08:40:21 pm
content: www.antenna-theory.comhas some very good information on the basics of antennas and a lot of other RF theory.Theoryhttp://www.antenna-theory.com/antennas/aperture/ifa.phpThere is a good example here on one of the most common pcb antennas.Theoryhttp://saturnpcb.com/pcb_toolkit.htmThis is a really great application that allows you to calculate PCB transmission lines based on different PCB layouts and A TON of other stuff. Very handy.Very practicalhttp://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra161b/swra161b.pdf(AN058)Ti has some of the best RF ap notes I know of, very complete. This PDF has some really good info along with links to loads of other ap notes at the end of the document.It also includes links to design examples in a few different CAD programs and PDF'sVery practicalhttps://utah.instructure.com/courses/165574/filesAnother gold mine from the university of Utah.Mostly theorySome very nice videos from the same university.Mostly theory

author: Mengano
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2013, 05:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: Cognito on March 29, 2013, 05:15:54 pmHow deep do you wish to get into this?There's only a couple that are really worth studying, in my humble opinion, but they really get quite deep not the theory. Yes, there's some math involved but you can still pick up some very useful information without knowing all the math details.

author: Frank3point14
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 15, 2013, 05:26:28 am
content: Hello..You could check this BOOKhttp://www.4shared.com/office/5Q2A5ei4/72287573-tutorial-proteus-pcb.htmlThank you.......

author: Whuffo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 12:10:07 am
content: Quote from: WarSim on July 09, 2013, 05:02:32 amRF design isn't really all that well defined. When PC traces act like transmission lines, and the inductance of the leads on a capacitor create a tuned circuit - anything more than a very, very basic design runs into some fascinating problems.Really; put a circuit on a PC board that generates a watt or two of clean 100 MHz power into a 50 ohm load. That seems to be simple, but many engineers have tried and failed. It's not impossible, but youthful attitude won't do it. Experience, lots of experience helps. If you can do it, and do it in production - you're a golden boy with a bright future ahead of you.Those who say this isn't a challenge haven't tried it. Parasitic capacitance and inductance become important circuit elements - and they're completely undefined and seemingly random. If your amplifier oscillates for no apparent reason - that's just part of the learning experience. Higher and lower frequencies seem to be easier, but 100 MHz is just plain damned difficult. Getting a watt or two of clean 100 Mhz sine waves into a 50 ohm load is an achievement.

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 08:43:57 am
content: Quote from: Whuffo on September 23, 2013, 12:10:07 amThe industry knowledge was based on mentor ship. Knowledge was passed down from the seniors to the juniors. It worked great. Since the bulk of the knowledge was maintained and improved this way only a small portion has been captured in literature. Now with the generations after mine think thought they know better and did not want to listen to vast knowledge of the seniors. The result is what was common was/is now hard, and what was done before is rediscovered. From what i have seen, the skills is almost back to where the new attitude began. The newest generation of engineers are keen and I am confident the remaining lag will soon be overcome.On the upside the people that did listen to their seniors always had a job. I was good to be a golden boy, now it is time for the 30 something's to take over.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 10:19:45 am
content: Quote from: WarSim on September 23, 2013, 08:43:57 amI am not so sure. I see a generation coming up who think it doesn't exist, is not relevant or can't be done if they can't find it via Google. Listening to old people? No, and literature won't help them, because they think reading is for old people.

author: Whuffo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 11:07:50 pm
content: Quote from: WarSim on September 23, 2013, 08:43:57 amI chose that example in my challenge for this reason. 100Mhz is right in the FM broadcast band, and a couple watts of clean output is pretty tough to do. You won't find but a handful of engineers who have any experience in this area - and they probably won't talk to you. There's no cookbook designs to speak of - and they'll never mention how critical board layout is - or how to maintain impedances through the output filtering to keep from generating even more harmonic noise and less output.It's a "prove yourself" kind of challenge. Just like a real job would be - if you're pushing electronic design forward, you won't have access to folks with previous experience. I'm retired now and am endlessly amused by some of the designs that are being created these days. Elsewhere on the forum someone was asking how to drive a piezo transducer to maximum output for rodent control. There were suggestions of using AVR, or a 555 and some amplification. One fellow got close but missed the key. Piezo transistors are resonant devices, and the phase shift across them at resonance is well defined. Use the transducer to provide positive feedback to it's driving transistor and you can get that transducer screaming with 3 or 4 components.MCUs and digital circuits are very valuable and every good engineer should know about them. But analog circuits are very valuable too; almost every digital device that interfaces with humans or the outside world includes analog circuitry. Resonance is magic, and should be well understood. And it's very, very important to know your components. There are no pure passives; every R includes some L and C. Just like every C includes some R and L, and every L includes some R and C. Those hidden additional components bring many a seemingly great design to its knees. Even your conductors; wires, or the traces on a PC board include R, C and L. Getting a good handle on all of the little details prepares one to turn out designs that work - every time. If you're having mystery problems with a circuit, it's time to go back to the books.

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2013, 02:52:21 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on September 23, 2013, 10:19:45 amYou are making me cry now.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2013, 03:29:22 am
content: I got where I am now because of talking to men older than me and asking for feedback/criticismIf my contemporaries don't recognize what they're missing, their loss.

author: Köcki
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 17, 2014, 12:18:50 pm
content: i found thislist of books about pcbon cadsoft eagle´s website.maybe some of them are useful.

author: mngiggle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2014, 06:20:10 pm
content: It may be that, instead of not being willing to take direction from mentors, there's just a shortage of mentors. Particularly in RF, where I don't think I'm alone in being forced to reinvent the wheel on practical subjects because they're not written down anywhere that I've found (yet).Books:-- For practical understanding of RF, ARRL's handbooks are hard to beat, even though they may not apply quite as directly to your PCB design as you'd like.-- RF Circuit Design, Second Edition by Christopher Bowick, Cheryl Ajluni and John Blyle-- Complete Wireless Design by Cotter SayreSites:-- I second the AntennaTheory.com link and the suggestion to look at TI's RF app notes--http://www.microwaves101.com/index.cfm-- seems to be a good simulation/learning crossover:http://www.clarktelecommunications.com/simulation/(haven't gone through it all myself yet)--http://aess.cs.unh.edu/radar%20se%20List%20of%20Lectures%20.html-- For visualizing Smith Charts, etc:http://www.bessernet.com/--http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=1756523&nid=-34944.0&id=1756523--http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?action=download&cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=895947&nid=-34944.0&id=895947-- Microwave engineering lecture notes etc.:http://www.ece.mcmaster.ca/faculty/nikolova/4FJ4_downloads/lectures/

author: t3chiman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2014, 04:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: Cognito on March 29, 2013, 05:15:54 pmFor general RF, the amateur radio community has been publishing on this topic for 75 years or so. It's at a "handbook" level, very accessible. Regarding 2.4GHz, so much functionality has migrated so quickly into mass-produced ICs that it's hard to find meaningful DIY information. Best advice: look up the work on software-defined radio, gnuradio, some of the kickstarter activity. A few open source board designs exist. Of course, all wireless routers are object lessons in RF board layout; open a few up and take a look.Hope this helps.

author: aflex
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 01:38:06 pm
content: Hi Cognito,I always write on PCB products. So if you want to do something special in PCB industry. Not only concentrate on bookish knowledge do as practical work. It will be more profitable for you in future.I have some books and websites name they will help you in improving your knowledge.http://goo.gl/Gf0w2Dhttp://goo.gl/yNlTGKhttp://www.a-flex.com