Stung by Farnell/Element14 again... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 01:36:21 pm
content: This is a bit of a rant and also a warning to be careful how you use the online ordering system at Farnell.I've been stung by hidden charges several times in recent orders. A while back I got caught by the classic 'reel' trap where I didn't notice RL in the part number. Back then, the online system let you order 3 parts and showed the cost of 3 parts but (in my case) I got stung for a full reel and this cost doesn't appear until the end of the order. So it's easy to miss this in a large order and you can easily end up paying more than you realise for one item. I ended up with a reel of transistors when I just wanted 3 transistors at about 50p each.So I ended up losing money compared to ordering at RS.Another time they offered me a 15% discount on my next order which didn't work on my next (big) order. I could have got the stuff cheaper elsewhere but the 'discount that never was' made me choose Farnell. But their discount code bounced in their online system. So I paid full price.Today they have got me again. I ordered loads of stuff (about £200 worth of various components) and in amongst this was a few resistors that were out of stock so I clicked on the alternative. But this cost me (hidden) extra delivery from USA and it isn't clear enough to the user that they do this in the order.So I've lost money again and despite clicking on (free) next day delivery I ended up paying for shipping from the USA. I'm now tracking these 25 resistors (cost a few pence each) as they are now being transported across various states in the USA, then they will get flown here and doubtless they will travel around the various UK depots before finally arriving here.I think I'm done with their online ordering system and I'll try going back to telephone orders. They enticed me over to online ordering because they said it would save me time and money because of the online perks but this hasn't happened in reality. I did try phoning them to stop the resistor order from the USA but they said tough because it's been processed. The easiest/sanest thing to do would be for the courier to simply throw the box in the bin somewhere in the USA as it is pure madness to send a few resistors costing a few pence across the USA/Atlantic/UK.So if you are considering Farnell as a possible supplier, be very careful how you order stuff and double check every line item at the checkout. Don't trust the little popup window to tell you the true cost of the item. There could be hidden extra costs.

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:08:46 pm
content: My 0.02€:Meh, wouldn't call it a sting or a trap.I guess it's more difficult to keep tracks of this kind of detail when you make a relatively big order; but you can't say that it's a scam.When I accidentally place reeled-at-extra-costs components I notice right away and correct the order.Their site could certainly be optimized, such as reminding you that you order contain x amount of parts with extra shipping fee, or reeling costs. But calling it a scam is exaggerated.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:13:28 pm
content: never had your specific problemswhen re-checking the cart before hitting order i always see under the component every added cost like re-reeling, shipping from usa warehouse etc

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:15:13 pm
content: I have accidently added US stock parts, but in the basket there was a notice next to the parts, in bold:QuoteWhilst I suppose one could miss it for 50+ line orders, thankfully I always spotted it on the final order review. At the top of the basket page is, in redQuoteA colleague of mine cannot stand Farnell's website, nor RS's and instead still orders parts by phone. I'm not saying its an age thing, but some are just more used to websites than others. The sheer number of parts available can also get one unstuck. I required 0.1% 0805 resistors, 10k. Using the parametric search it gave 3 results, including one reel. But actually searching '10k 0.1% 0805' yielded 90 results, one of which, panasonic brand, 0.1%, was significantly cheaper. Although it of course also had 1% resistors..in the results.Anything over about £50, so most orders, I go through each line making sure the component and quantity are correct and this can take 10-15 minutes but worth it. Sounds patronising, but I made my fair share of screw ups with ordering - it has made me overly paranoid.

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:23:19 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on December 09, 2016, 02:15:13 pmIn my case, I usually aim for the 30€ threshold for the free shipping, and if it includes tools, that's not a lot of items to check.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:29:39 pm
content: QuoteRL does not men it's a full reel, just that quantity ordered will be re-reeled, there was minimum quantity but not a full reel at all, now they reduced minimum quantity but at additional re-reeling cost. Don't know how you succeeded to order a full reel. Maybe It was so long back in the past it was that different. Everything other seem to be just lack of attention on your side, except discount code. However, those discount codes have valid before date, and, probably, you missed that date.Quoteit's very obvious, not hidden.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:32:35 pm
content: QuoteBut I didn't say it was a scamI'm warning people how easy it is to get caught (stung) by hidden charges. I doubt Farnell are making much profit by shipping a few (penny) resistors across the USA/Atlantic/UK. I suspect that they are losing out here on costs and so am I.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:39:18 pm
content: Also, those discount codes often are not applicable to certain products. In my experience, it will bounce (with explaining notice) if at least one of those products is present in the cart.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:42:43 pm
content: That's a bummer. To avoid this in the future, there is a check box in the 'Availability' section on the left hand side of their search pages called 'Exclude US Stock', that will prevent you accidentally picking US stock items. I usually find Farnell ok and the biggest gripe is having to decant my stuff from the padded bag in the small box in the foam in the huge box. Why they can't just send this stuff in a small padded bag?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:43:36 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 09, 2016, 02:29:39 pmIt was a mini reel (as in a reel that looks very small) and I think there were several hundred (large) transistors on the reel. But the point is that it is easy to miss this if you are placing an order for dozens of line items and you are in a hurry. Maybe they are better at warning about the RL part numbers today. I always watch out for RL in every code I check since this episode. I'm an engineer not a sales/purchasing person and I'm warning people that they need to check their order carefully to avoid incurring frustrating/unnecessary costs. More carefully than I did.QuoteObviously it wasn't very obvious to me

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 02:58:46 pm
content: QuoteYes, that's basically the message/advice I'm trying to offer to people hereIf you arrive on a Farnell part page that might be an alternative to an unstocked item then the system doesn't warn you in the post BUY popup that you just added US delivery costs. After you click BUY it just pops up and says that the item has been added to your basket and it tells you the cost of the item but it doesn't alert/warn you that you just added USA delivery costs to your order for that item.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 05:30:10 pm
content: On Farnell's "availability" filter, I always tick "in stock" and "exclude US stock". That way I never see items marked "Delivery Charge: £15.95 once per order. 3 business days delivery for in stock items" - neither before I add them to the basket nor during checkout. It also makes product selection a little easier!I always keep a mental check of how much thingsoughtto cost, and do a sanity check before buying.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2016, 05:39:25 pm
content: I suggest to work slower with websites that are about money. I batch import my carts from project BOMs and inventory, and if an article is out of stock, has US shipping fees, is reeled, or has different MOQ than you specified it will warn you at the top of cart. There is nothing "hidden" about this, except if you don't read.In addition I have a general idea what my order cost is going to come out to. I do the BOM stuff beforehand in Excel or whatever spreadsheet tool you prefer. I also might be a cheap ass, and when I see 1 part increasing my order cost by 50 euro's I know something is up.The in stock / exclude US stock buttons should have a "make default" button. It's basically the first thing I do at Farnell.IMO it should also include a quantity filter button, like Digikey has. Allows you to sort on price for a target quantity number of products, so all the "RL" aren't above the normal parts in the list.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 11:06:00 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 09, 2016, 02:51:31 pmoh yes, during one of my last orders someone bought the entire 53k quantity of 47 ohm 1206. had to make another order as i needed them quick and couldn't wait a couple of months for restockingin these cases triple checking won't do

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 01:41:38 pm
content: A tip:Farnell standard UK stock code is formatted 123-4567 and US stock code is formatted 1234567890 on the website which helps tell them apart.I once unwittingly ordered a US stocked part from Farnell, luckily it was at work and we got a phone call from Farnell explaining the part had a 10 week lead time so we could cancel that one (I got the part elsewhere)

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 01:47:29 pm
content: Quote from: hans on December 09, 2016, 05:39:25 pmOh, yeah, I agree. They should definitely have this feature.I wish their filtering options were also more consistent from category to category. In some you can filter packaging for each, cut tape, etc. But in some you can't for some reason. Most annoying.

author: Marc M.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 02:46:17 pm
content: They got me for $20 shipping for a $0.98 resistor that was only stocked in the UK(to repair a R&S CMT Radio Test Set). It was a large order, I was in a hurry, and never noticed the charge. When I called customer service about the issue, they were rude and indifferent basically calling me an idiot for not catching the charge when I ordered. Fine, if that's the way Farnell want to conduct business, that's their choice. Although this was incident was for my home lab, it was my choice to no longer use them as a supplier at work which purchased $10,000 - $20,000 annually from them.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 05:15:15 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on December 09, 2016, 01:36:21 pmIf you have bad milk , you might use the withdraw right.When they delivered you the packet(all) , you inquiry to withdraw request(http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/sell-abroad/on-line/index_en.htm).Now ,when you read the spanish conditions of sale is for laughting :Distance selling" The custom expressly waives all the rights conferred by the precepts contained in Chapter II of Title III of Law 7/1996 and, in general, all the rights conferred by Law 7/1996, expressly renouncing the parts to which The provisions of Chapter II of Title III of Law 7/1996 apply in their relations."http://es.farnell.com/condiciones-de-ventaSimply , It is a FRAUD OF LAW . You can't waive to Right that the law grant you. If before I did not like them by the abusive price , now i have other reason.

author: Iwanushka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 09:47:01 pm
content: My 2 cents,Farnell sometimes really wants to scam you, In my case I had order with lots of parts and it was about ~100eur but I did not finish checking if everything was okay, and continued next day, after adding rest of the stuff refreshed my cart and total was ~350eur, at first I thought maybe it's okay, good thing I rechecked before entering my CC info, and guess what bunch of el cheapo resistors that where like 50cents each became like 10-20eur each overnight for some 0805 1% multicomp crap, and new stuff I added was like 30eur...Conclusion selling 100 resistors for a price of 5k reel is a scam

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 10:07:02 pm
content: Quote from: Iwanushka on December 10, 2016, 09:47:01 pmYou have to include the cost of fetching, counting, cutting, bagging, labelling, returning the remainder to the shelves. None of that is zero cost, and for low price components it can dominate the cost.

author: Iwanushka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 10:15:26 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 10, 2016, 10:07:02 pmbut changing price of item up to 50x overnight is totally f**kedup, also they did this only for that particular brand, every other brand was stil like 1cent each

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 10:35:15 pm
content: Quote from: HwAoRrDk on December 10, 2016, 01:47:29 pmI've lost count how many times I've complained to them about that. They just don't give a toss about making their website more useable. Even when I tell them that I usually do production orders form Digikey because their website works better.BTW in the UK, you can get 6.6% cashback on all Farnell orders via Quidcohttp://www.quidco.com/

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:39:05 am
content: I don't know about the UK E14 site but the AU version has your total cart value permanently displayed in the top right corner of the open page and every time you click "Buy" a small window pops up detailing the part just added to your cart including its value. I've accidentally clicked on reeled components before but it's not very easy to not notice the displayed cart value increment by few hundred dollars rather than just a few dollars.But anyway, the AU site is currently unusable for me. The site is painfully slow in the best of times but for over a week now the very poor and clunky parametric search engine refuses to load at all. I've even gone away to prepared lunch, but the two-arrow circular icon was still rotating when I got back. So I've borged the bits I was going to get from E14 into a larger order I'm collating with Digikey rather than waste any more time hoping that the crappy E14 site will start working again. I'm not even going to bother contacting their technical support; the last time I did that I got contacted by a thoroughly unhelpful and total dill.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 07:51:54 am
content: I have never been impressed with the customer service at Farnell either.If someone makes a mistake when ordering due to their confusing website, it should be cancelled/refunded no questions asked. Other companies do that. I guess Farnell don't care about small orders, but at work I order quite a bit of stuff and never use them unless I have to.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 08:42:35 am
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on December 11, 2016, 07:51:54 amMy single experience is that a £35 (inc "free"postage) order didn't arrive. I phoned them, they were very apologetic, and sent a repeat order by courier.QuoteThe problem is, of course, distinguishing between a poor website, an inattentive mistake, and dishonesty.If the vast majority of orders are problem-free, then clearly the website issufficient. If there aresufficientproblems, then the website woud be changed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 10:52:12 am
content: Quote from: Watth on December 09, 2016, 02:08:46 pmI agree it isn't a scam but I'd wish Farnell disables the US stock by default. It would save me disabling it manually every time.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:20:42 am
content: Go witH RS Compnents where possible the freight is free - at least in Australia.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:28:56 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on December 10, 2016, 05:15:15 pmThat depends on whether he ordered it from a business account or not, as that only covers end users, not businesses.QuoteIf he's an end user and and didn't place the order from a business account, then yes, he should be able to cancel the order, though he may still have to pay for delivery.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:58:23 pm
content: i'm buying mainly ICs from Farnell in small quantities for prototyping, and it's not a problem to click "in stock + exclude US" , furthermore it's not a big deal to ignore the RL marked components and look for the ones with a "cut tape" note. it's just a metter of paying attentionregarding passives i buy only the "special ones" from Farnell - e.g. they have resistors in many tolerances and various tempcos - so you always find what you want. but for generic jelly bean passives i'm buying from TME - they sell virtually anything as cut tape , and even full reels of generic resistors are cheaper than Farnell (e.g. 10k 0603 1% when buying a 5k reel : 0.0012Eur + VAT @ Farnell while only 0.00076 + VAT @ TME).however my very first order from Farnell was a bit of fun - i saw they have warehouses in UK and Belgium , one of the components was only in stopck in Belgium others were in stock in both UK and Belgium... i naively expected they'll dispatch the order from Belgium where all the items were in stock.... but nope... they dispatched it from UK and i waited 2 weeks for the remaining single IC till it was stocked up in UKsince then i double check that every item is in stock in UK

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:12:06 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 11, 2016, 12:58:23 pmThey'll ship from Belgium only if you are registered as a business.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 11, 2016, 01:12:06 pmIf that's true then they're not very good at following their own rules. I have a non-business account and twice in recent times they've shipped me part of my order from Belgium.Once it was literally just ten resistors that they overnight UPSed so it arrived at exactly the same time. (They had been in stock in UK when I added to the basket, but next day when I ordered, stock had gone, and I didn't notice they would be sent from Liege.)

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 10, 2016, 10:07:02 pmSo , when you go to grocery shop and you inquiry a pound of cucumber(by 0.87 €/lb) and you go out the shop with the bill of 64€ .Now we see the bill apportionment:1 lb Cucumber by 0.87€Cost of inquiry cucumbers to wholesaler by 3 €Cost of delivered of cucumbers 5€Cost of unpacking cucumber 3€Cost handle of the waste of unpacking 4€Cost to storage and custody of cucumber 4€Cost of maintanance of the floor, shelves , doors and windows by used of customers 8€Cost of the workers of the shop used for the customers 15€Cost of the air breathed by the customers 10€+VAT(21%)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------64 €Like they will apply the same method of the electronic components to the meals . We would die to hunger.Apart it seems to the accounts of the "Gran Capitan":"By pikes ,shovels and hoes 100k golden ducatsBy perfumed gloves for soldiers 150k golden ducats"

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:08:36 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on December 11, 2016, 03:35:47 pmExcept for the specific values and your silly points, yes that is general principle - but you forgot business rates, food spoilage, insurance, heating, and disposal of unpurchased food. It is the prime reason for the difference between thewholesaleprice and theretailprice.The actual markup depends on retail sector, of course, but in many cases (other than food) there is a 100% markup.When I worked in a medium-sized design and development consultancy, the break-even charge was roughly salary*2.5. When potential customers complained, we told them the old engineering aphorism: "pay peynuts, get monkeys". If they didn't accept that, we didn't want them as clients.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:16:14 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 11, 2016, 01:12:06 pmNo, they'll ship from Belgium if the item is in Belgium. They don't care who you are.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:43:35 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on December 11, 2016, 03:35:47 pmi would say it's an inaccurate analogy....i would adjust your cucumber analogy to "i wanted 2 slices of a cucumber and they charged me for a whole cucumber plus a fee for slicing it up?" and my answer would be of course they did... if you don't need the whole cucumber then it's better to buy where they sell sliced cucumbers by default

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 11, 2016, 04:16:14 pmThis is exactly what they do. In saying that I have had problems recently with items dissappearing off an order from CPC. Silly excuses about their courier not carrying dangers goods, funny Farnell don't have this problem with same items. What's more I can believe it over compressed air etc, but 3 pin XLR plugs..... What dangerous about them...!BTW no one in the UK buys cucumbers by the pound any more. The British government tricked their subjects into believing it was illegal to use non metric units under a EU directive etc etc.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 07:02:09 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on December 11, 2016, 04:55:54 pmThat's comparing apples to oranges, though. CPC have a different warehouse, different systems (apart from website) different shipping methods, etc. They might as well be a wholly separate company altogether.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 08:10:14 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 11, 2016, 04:43:35 pmMore than inaccurate analogy , i exaggerated a little. But you don't believe that i go to misguided.Once time , my father went to visit to architect for asking the prices, when my father terminated to talk with him. The arquitect did a bill , simply for asking the prices.Of course ,my father outraged and i said him:"I don't pay you any " DURO" because you don't give me any service , only i went to inform me and to ask the price, and if you want to denunciate to police , you had my name and surnames".And he went out and he still is waiting the denunciate .