NVidia 3000 series.  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 09:19:10 am
content: So any gamers out there - here's a napkin, wipe up your drool - will know the 3000 series is launched and set to go on sale September 17th.There are many sources out there with full specs, but it can be summed up that the entry level base card 3070 will out perform the latest flagship 2080Ti and costs £450. The 3090 is double the performance of the 2080Ti. There will be a LOT of very, very sad 2080Ti purchasers and a LOT of S/H GPU traders screaming in pain in a few weeks.My present PC is only nearly 3 years old, but I have that itch again. But then it starts...The new GPU actually makes good use of the PCI-e V4 bus, so I need a new Motherboard. The new Motherboard will support the latest 3rd gen Ryzen 3800X, so I need a new CPU. The new CPU will support faster RAM and I'll need more anyway for DCS World and FS2020.. so I need new RAM 32Gb.When I tried to make a "hand me down" deal with my brother, his case won't handle my stuff, now will his PSU and I was hoping to keep my cooling systems. However it looking like for that deal go to through I'll end up handing down the case and PSU and maybe the cooling systems too.So that's a whole new PC, except for drives and I'm sorely tempted to go for a 1Tb MVeM2 drive anyway.I'm off to go window shopping, wish me luck.That said, what is unfortunately likely to happen is... 3080 goes on sale at £650 and immediately sells out. All the websites put their price up to £950 and they all sell out, then it will settle at £1400 for months before falling again.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 01:34:27 pm
content: "The new GPU actually makes good use of the PCI-e V4 bus"You can use PCIe3 with imperceptible performance degradation, It's not necessary to change anything , you are forcing a point

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 03:00:26 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on September 06, 2020, 01:34:27 pmTrue. I believe the utilisation of the 2000 series is 16x2.0 8x3.0, so even if the 3000 series doubles bandwidth capacity it will still only use 16x3.0 and maybe 8x4.0And my rig is not CPU bound at all and probably wouldn't be with a 3000 series.Although I have already tempted my brother with the hand me down.... and NEW TOYS!

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 07:54:33 pm
content: It's all speculation anyway until reputable independent benchmarks turn upBut i remember with some AMD GPUs that also can use PCIe 4, that there is actually a non significant performance increase in some circumstances. I think a couple of games performend around 10% faster with the GPU in a PCIe 4 slot than in a PCIe 3 Slot.Additonally, if i understood it correctly, there will be a new feature that enables the GPU to pull texture data directly from a PCIe SSD. This will likely benefit from PCIe 4 as well, if you have an SSD that can utilize that, of course.I will set up a new system late this year or early next year. I am essentially only waiting for the next Ryzen release.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 05:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 06, 2020, 07:54:33 pmNVidia themselves showed benchmarks done on i9 machine (so PCIE 3.0). If PCIE 4.0 would make a difference, don't you think they'd show it instead?

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 06:15:03 pm
content: PCIe 4.0 might or might not help the 3080 but it can help with NVMe performance (if you have NVMe that supports 4.0). I wouldn't buy an entire new computer if I just wanted a new GPU (and no doubt the 3080 will offer some great performance/price) but if I was building a new computer I wouldn't buy a PCIe 3.0 motherboard when for not much more you could have PCIe 4.0. PCIe 3.0 will run fine for years but for new computers it's the beginning of the end for PCIe 3.0 and the beginning of the beginning for PCIe 4.0.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 08:45:02 pm
content: Wouldn't it be a bit awkward to use an AMD system to present your newest nVidia card? As far as i know, there are no Intel CPUs with PCIe 4 yet

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 09:23:45 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 08, 2020, 08:45:02 pmNVidia had no problems using ADM CPUs for their datacenter AI platform.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 07:04:36 am
content: You might be right, we will know in a week, when independent benchmarks are available. As far as I know, the review NDA lasts until next Monday.But considering the target group for those graphics cards, I really suspect that nVidia made the prudent move not publicly benchmarking on an AMD system. The vocal "Fanboys" in the gamer crowd are *loud* and love to get into an outrage over the smallest things

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 02:26:11 pm
content: PCI-e 4 is nice for compute applications. More bandwidth to load up the video RAM with new data sets. For games it's yet to be seen whether it makes an improvement..Rumors are going that the RTX 2000 series already exceeds PCI-e 3.0 8x throughput though. Namely, the AMD Ryzen 4000H series parts have not been paired with the 2070 models and upwards. Perhaps a Intel+NVidia artificial market segmentation strategy to combat AMD (a common competitor), or that AMD Renior parts don't have 16 PCI-e lanes for a GPU. I think we will need to wait for benchmarks to see if it makes a difference. I believe some HW tech channels are upgrading their GPU benches to AMD though, just to make sure it's not a bottleneck.I'm also looking forward to the 3000 series cards, but will probably wait for more leaks/news on the AMD cards. I think that the 3070 is a little disappointing since it only features 8GB VRAM, which means it has been stagnant from since 1070 series (+1070 Ti) and 2070 (+2070Super) cards. That's 3 generations with 8GB VRAM on the 70 model..In addition, the 3080 only offers 2GB more. I'm not sure how big of an advantage the 11GB VRAM on the 2080Ti then is, maybe in exceptional cases.. but the 3080 has much more bandwidth (PCI-e 4 to system RAM, and GDDR6X). I rather would have seen 10-12GB on the 3070, and 12-16GB on the 3080.Rumors are that the Ti versions will have more VRAM. Meanwhile, apparently the next gen AMD cards may feature 16GB of VRAM.. Games like MSFS really likes VRAM..I will probably pick up a new computer case & PSU soon though, as 1 thing that isn't going to change is the size of these new cards (often >300mm, my current Fractal Design Define R3 only fits up to 290mm cards). Also will probably go for a 1kW PSU, since I plan to have 2 GPU's in my system where I use my current GTX970 only on Linux (I want to PCI-e passthrough the 3080 to a Windows VM).

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 02:43:28 pm
content: Just wait another 3 years or so, for the next generation with 20% increase in ALU count....Or 3000 series has meltdown/degradation issues similar to RTX2080ti Micron memory meltdown. Then everyone wants their working RTX2000 back....I stopped buying newest computer hardware a long long time ago. It's a waste of money. But the increase in performance is still kinda interesting.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 02:59:09 pm
content: I'm running a 1080 so a 3090 is a compelling upgrade. I keep thinking about getting a PC VR headset as well and not just having the PSVR one. I also don't think Nvidia would hurt their own performance just to use an Intel part. If it made their product look better they'll use an AMD CPU; That doesn't make them look bad because they don't make CPUs. They don't typically have long stretches where they're competing with AMD for the GPU crown either(for a while now).If they changed their brand back to ATI I might consider buying one. I'd just install my ATI version of Mechwarrior and pretend I'm young again. I think I've used Nvidia since they move to hardware T&L... Except for one PC where the best video card I could get was ATI(X1650 Pro for my server with only an AGP slot).

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 03:24:35 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 09, 2020, 07:04:36 amThese fanboys are tiny minority. I doubt NV (or AMD for that matter) cares about them much, as they are not the ones who bring them cash. It's the silent majority who buys OEM systems is the target audience.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 03:37:30 pm
content: Quote from: hans on September 09, 2020, 02:26:11 pmAs I understand, 3070 is meant to be for a high refresh 2K gaming and for that 8 GB is more than enough. 3080's positioning is more troublesome, while current titles don't require more than 8 GB of VRAM for 4K, who knows what will happen in 1-2 years from now. I plan to get 3080 for 2K gaming at high refresh rate (got 2K@144Hz HDR10 panel here) with some future-proofing, so for me 10 GB is enough.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 04:26:23 pm
content: AAA titles are one thing. There are other more niece use cases that will pretty much consume as much video hardware as you want to throw at them. DCS World being the one I'm interested in, but also Flight Simulator 2020. MS Flight Sim has always made current hardware seem inadequate. I understand 2020 is no exception with a 2080Ti barely able to run on High settings and coming nowhere near 60fps.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 05:52:31 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 09, 2020, 04:26:23 pmAs a pilot myself, all I can say is FS 2020 is stunning, it's by far the best PC simulator I've used, although it's been two or three years since I last tried Prepar3d or XPlane.I run MS FS at 4K at a fairly consistent 40fps in Ultra on an RTX-2080 Ti with an i7-8700k. Note that I use it to maintain currency, not really for sightseeing, although it must be stated that the smoothness and realism I've found so far to be very acceptable. There's a fair bit of discussion that you don't really need 60fps+ for a flight simulator, and IME I'd agree with that, although I can see that it might sound counter intuitive.My box is a mini-ITX build, using an Asrock Z370 Gaming ITX/ac, with 32GB 3000MHz DDR4 and a 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD. Except for the 2080Ti and case, this was my old lab/bench development PC, and I upgraded it specifically to use with FS 2020 back in April when I had some Covid time on my hands.The case is a Sliger SM560 3-GPU slot (duh, I hadn't realised the 2080 Ti I'd bought was a 3 slotter!) with ventilated panels all round. Avoid inadvertently placing liquids on top of it! Otherwise this well ventilated case is the best ITX enclosure for thermals I've ever encountered despite its diminutive 11 litre size.Two Noctua 120mm fans are in the base On the CPU I have a frankenstein combo of a Cooltek LP53 cooler with another Noctua 120mm fan sitting directly on top of it: the overreach of the fan cools both the CPU and the motherboard.PSU is a SilverStone SST-SW700-G. An earlier Corsair SF750 that I installed blew its magic smoke when in standby, taking a circuit breaker with it. The i7-8700k is stock, with no IHS modifications.With no overclocking, it runs AIDA64 at 75 deg C with a slight -100mV offset undervolt. As with any mini ITX build, it's not great for overclocking, thermals get out of control rapidly, so I leave it running at stock apart from the undervolting.To complete the setup, I have a Honeycomb yoke, Saitek/Logitech throttle quadrant, and Thrustmaster T.Flight Rudder Pedals. As a pilot, I find that having realistic controls is key for me: trying to land with keyboard and mouse is neither fun nor realistic.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 06:17:47 pm
content: Go VR manReverb or Oculus.Give DCS world a try, a bit more exciting and mostly VFR. If you like playing with the more complex FS models, the level of detail in a HiFi module in DCS is staggering. It took me 2 hours to start up an A10 first time. Learning the various weapons systems and targetting systems took months. Every switch is implemented and functional as it should be. 3D clickable too and in VR.(I can start an A10 in 4 minutes now and a hornet is less).Launching from the new Super Carrier mod, including deck crew, marshalling, full cat crew is awesome. Absolutely kills the framerate on deck with 4 AI launching and 4 taxiing, but it's so amazing.It's not just the combat, pew, pew gaming, the flight model is (for most things) far beyond what FS2004 had. Proper fluid dynamics for example.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIvnLgLuVFs&ab_channel=EagleDynamics%3ADigitalCombatSimulatorEDIT: Watching that video again, it's hard to believe until you've seen it that 100% of that is in game footage. It's beautiful to watch and even more so to play.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 07:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 08, 2020, 08:45:02 pm+1I think it is correct that so far there are no Intel CPUs that support PCIe 4, but there are definitely AMD CPUs that support PCIe 4 and they work well with nVidia's current GPUs (20XX and others), and no doubt they will happily work with nVidia's 30XX GPUs.Not a lot of reasons yet (other than maybe read/write NVMe performance) to give up on PCIe 3 if someone has PCIe 3, but given a choice (building a full computer from scratch) PCIe 4 is preferred. One of these days Intel will deliver PCIe 4 but if they don't get there this year....... maybe next year or the year after we could possibly start to see products that support PCIe 5.https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/x570PCIe® 4.0 Leadership3rd Gen AMD Ryzen is the FIRST processor to enable PCIe® 4.0, including support for Radeon RX 5000 series graphics and the world’s first PCIe® 4.0 NVMe driveshttps://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-answers-some-burning-rtx-30-series-questions-pcie-4-3080-ram-04636806/We also learn what kind of performance downgrade owners can expect if they use these cards with PCIe 3.0 instead of PCIe 4.0. “System performance is impacted by many factors and the impact varies between applications,” NVIDIA’s Seth Schneider said. “The impact is typically less than a few percent going from a x16 PCIE 4.0 to x16 PCIE 3.0. CPU selection often has a larger impact on performance.We look forward to new platforms that can fully take advantage of Gen4 capabilities for potential performance increases.”https://www.rambus.com/blogs/pci-express-5-vs-4/#:~:text=What%20is%20PCI%20Express%205,released%20in%20May%20of%202019.https://www.tomshardware.com/news/pcie-4.0-5.0-pci-sig-specification,38460.html

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2020, 09:27:31 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 09, 2020, 06:17:47 pmThis is the only reason to go VR for me, once HP's Reverb G2 is released I'll be giving it a go.I did use an IR reflector gadget at one time which was kinda OK, but that's the main part of the experience lacking right now, moving your head as you look at the window.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 08:07:50 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on September 09, 2020, 09:27:31 pmThe OMG factor for my first time was the 3D sense of distance. I found it hard to not reach out my real hand to touch things. That and just how bright the screens are when you look at the sun for example.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2020, 06:05:59 am
content: Review NDA has been bumped to Wednesday. We will have to wait just a bit longer now :p

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 06:28:05 pm
content: Seem reviews are out:https://youtu.be/oTeXh9x0sUc

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 07:20:03 pm
content: Yea, but only for the 3080 FE, reviews for custom desings have to waint until tomorrow, 3090 reviews will take some time, 3070 even more.All in all, this is a powerful beast from what the tests say, but that is bought with a comparatively high power consumption. There is not all that much achievable via overclocking, so i expect the custom designs will have to distinguish themselved with their cooling solution. Even so, the cooler of the FE apparantly works quite well. If there were not reports of strong coil whine on the FE, i would likly get that one. The 3080 has more than double the power than my 1080, at a comparable price, so it would be quite an upgrade.Well, it's time for a new box i thinkThe "I want it" factor has just gotten a lot stronger, but i will wait for the new AMD processors that will be announced soon.And yes, @asmi was apparently rightPCIe 4.0 only maske a very small difference in a few games.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 07:52:35 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 09, 2020, 06:17:47 pmProbably not Oculus. Facebook has just announced they are discontinuing all PC headsets (i.e. Rift) from next year and will focus only the standalone ones (Quest). While you can use Quest with PC via the Oculus Link (over USB 3 cable), it is always going to be a compromise due to image quality degradation, lower refresh rate and higher latency compared to a PC headset.If you want the HMD primarily for PC use (and thus care about the image quality and the rest because you are investing into a high end PC to go with it), better look elsewhere.With Reverb I would be careful - it is Windows Mixed Reality headset, which is a platform about as niche as it gets. While it can play SteamVR content, the support isn't as good as for the more mainstream headsets. Of course, if you want it only for FS2020, you likely don't need to care as that has native support for it.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 09:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 16, 2020, 07:20:03 pmI guess they really wanted to push a "4K 60FPS" gaming card out the door.. I've calculated that Ampere is only 25% or so more efficient at their typical load power than Turing, even though NVIDIA boasted that Ampere has 1.9x perf/W than Turing (at the FPS as Turing can achieve). From most reviews I've seen/read, the FE card is pretty heavy into the power limits all the time. So not only a huge cooler (preferably water), but also a beefy VRM is necessary for any OC. Gamers Nexus OC'ed their card, and although FPS improved some pretty bad frame time spikes were probably due to the VRM throttling quite heavily..The "WANT" factor for me is also quite big. Although, having a 300W+ card in a system is probably going to be quite loud. I will probably bite the bullet and order a MSI or Asus card tomorrow (or soon(TM)) anyway.. blindly trusting them that they know how to make GPU coolers. I'm not even sure if it makes that much of a difference if you don't OC the card. I might even underclock or undervolt the card if it really turns out to be a bit loud, and then gradually open it back up over time when I really do need to the extra FPS (I only need 1440p/144Hz, but my GTX970 is on it's last legs)

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 07:45:26 am
content: One thing that speaks for the Founders Edition: They now also shut down the fans when the card is idle. Before now, that was a thing that only third party designs did.On the other hand, similar to you, I bought a ASUS 970 back in the day, with the hopes that it would be silent. Yes, it was silent while idle, since the fans were off, but under load that thing was terribly loud.If I get a 3080, I will reduce the power target a bit. It will still be a beast, about double as fast as my current card, but then with a comparable power requirement under load, and maybe then even a bit more silent.And the idle power with a dual monitor system has been significantly reduced as well, which I see as a big plus.Though, since I want to wait for the new AMD Processors anyway, maybe a 3070 will be a better match, we will see...

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 08:27:03 am
content: I hope the water cooling AIO brackets from NZXT fit it. A 240mm radiator with 2 fans under tight control is what I currently have cooling a 1070Ti and the PC is nearly completely silent for desktop use. Sounds like a rack server on full tilt though, but I get <60*C GPU temp and full boost clock from that. The 3070 is probably where I'm aiming, a double generation jump and hopefully by the time the 3070 is released things will have calmed down a bit.Doing a double gen jump on the CPU might be nice, but would need to wait on all the rush and high release pricing before they are viable.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 08:29:07 am
content: Quote from: paulca on September 06, 2020, 09:19:10 amYes, the first FE tests arrived, and it is a beast. I have a GTX 1080, the 3080 is twice the speed. But you pretty much need a new PC. Intel 109895X (or whatever it is called) is 10% faster, according to techpowerup, but it is such an ancient technology. I really dont feel like investing into 14nm++++. So I probably just wait till zen3 comes out.But then I need a brand new PC, and I probably want a VR headset. Steam Index. And then we are talking about spending about 3000 EUR on a computer, the only thing staying is the monitor. It might be the same for others, now you can game in 4K, but then you need a high refrsh rate 4K monitor. It starts at 800 EUR. And the card is 800 EUR.In any case, this is going to be an expensive few month.Quote from: paulca on September 17, 2020, 08:27:03 amOh, imagine, I would be switching from a 4th gen intel i5 4570.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 07:08:51 pm
content: Don't benchmark it... take it apart!https://youtu.be/OX9Eh_NaC5cThat's some dense PCB shit. So many unpopulated solder blobs.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 10:20:09 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 06, 2020, 09:19:10 amYou should hold out for the 3090.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 07:56:11 am
content: Of course the 3090 will be more powerful. But looking at what the 3080 already can do, the 3090 seems unreasonableIt will for sure not deliver double the performance of the 3080.Even the 3080 is not all that reasonable if you are still on full hd or don't want to use a VR headset.The cards are apparently sold out anyway at the moment, like they always are right after launch. Prices need to settle down as well, and i have no urgent need to upgrade, so i will wait for bechmarks of the 3070 in a month.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 01:41:51 pm
content: NVidia cards almost always sell above MSRP, so don't hold your hopes high that prices will go down any time soon.I think 3090 is more geared for professional applications, as 24GB of VRAM is a massive overkill for any games. I plan to get a 3080 once the market settles down a bit. I had a chance to pick up AIB version yesterday at the local store, but I decided to wait a little as I will also need to upgrade the rest of my system as I still use i7-3930K which is now like 8 years old. It's a HEDT CPU, so it's got 4 DDR3 memory channels, which allows it to be competitive with modern dual channel DDR4 as far as bandwidth is concerned. The problem is HEDT systems are super-expensive now (waaaay higher than what there were back when I was buying my current system), so I will have to either buy a mass-market platform and be prepared to refresh it in a few years' time, or wait for more interesting HEDT solutions to arrive.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 02:09:48 pm
content: I also think that the RTX3090 is unreasonable for gaming, although I'm sure some people will impulse-buy them seeing how inflated prices are on Ebay right now. The 3090 "only" has 21% more CUDA cores than the 3080, and has to work under a similar TDP (some AIB cards have the same cooler design for 3080 and 3090). With that being said, 24GB VRAM is really nice for compute, and maybe in future better than 10GB when running 4K games, but rightv now it seems pointless for gaming.I got lucky and was able to order a 3080 card, and it will come in tomorrow together with a new case and PSU.Now I will just have to figure out how to either get the latest NVIDIA drivers for Manjaro, and/or setup PCI-e passthrough for a Windows gaming VM I'd like to try out. I read on Phoronix that the 455.23.04 driver is necessary, but I'm only on the 450 branch so far.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 02:34:41 pm
content: This time i might actually get an original nVidia Founders EditionThose are reasonably priced and the cooler seems to be quite good, if maybe a little loud. Since, if i am getting a 3080, i will reduce it's power a bit anyway, it would not make much sense to get a custom design, since most of the time those are addionally overclocked, driving the price up.Only if the price is comparable to the FE, or the custom is significantly more silent i will consider one.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2020, 08:33:17 am
content: I got my RTX3080 from Gigabyte (Gaming OC version). Wow what a beast of a card! Not surprising since it's a 3 cooler design though.. I get about 5x performance compared to my GTX970 in Unigine Heaven 1440p Ultra. Maybe the 970 was begging for more VRAM or whatever, but that's a huge jump for playing games at these resolutions.It's so big that I even feel that it's a bit overkillBut whatever, I like overkill considering I also run a Ryzen 9 and several TB of SSD storage.Anyhow, this card doesn't seem to run too hit (65C at 70% fan speed). With 100% fans, the card can cool down even further by about 10 - 14C, so that's still some decent margin left I think. Unfortunately there is a small amount of coil whine.. but I'm running it on an open bench right now, so perhaps not surprising.I did hear/read this weekend that the GDDR6X modules on the FE card are getting very hot (105C or something, case spec is 100C). Not sure how hot they get on AIB cards.For some reason I'm not surprised, because most memory modules I see marketed for gaming/enthiousiasts are getting somewhat beaten up (e.g. DOCP/XMP profiles for DDRx RAM)

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 10:16:16 am
content: https://www.igorslab.de/en/what-real-what-can-be-investigative-within-the-crashes-and-instabilities-of-the-force-rtx-3080-andrtx-3090/There may be trouble with the reference PCB spec.

author: PolioKahuna
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 02:55:03 pm
content: I hope there won't be hiccups with the nvidia 3000 series drivers since I just ordered 1 for myself.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:14:50 pm
content: It's suspected, though not confirmed that the spec allows for cheaper large caps to be used in place of an array of 8 MLCC caps. This is the backside of the board under the GPU core for decoupling and power stability.The founders cards have 4 blocks of cheaper caps and 2 blocks of MLCC. The 3rd party cards which have only one set of MLCCs or none at all are crashing at peak GPU Boost clocks.The issue has been blamed on NVidia keeping the drivers for the 3000 series secret, even from the 3rd party board manufacturers until after they had to start building the cards. It seems there may have been a miss match in the peak boost clocks the driver pushes and what the "corners cut" AIB cards can handle.If this is indeed the case, the affected first gen AIB cards will almost undoubted receive a BIOS/Driver upgrade to clock down their cores so the peak boost does not crash them. In the mean time people are being advised, if this is an issue for them to offset their core clocks to -100Mhz or drop their power limit below 100% to limit the peak boost clocks.The rework will take months in the factories but expect updated models with marketing about these caps plastered all over them, "Fully MLCC, Gaming Ready" and similar BS.... and more RGB

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 07:12:17 pm
content: I'm hoping der8auer invests in a tweezer iron, I was getting quite twitchy he was going to lift a trace, although he's probably been saved in this case by a multitude of vias.https://youtu.be/ud6NrbJllzk?t=372

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 12:17:52 pm
content: Has all the money to buy shitloads of new hardware but no money for second soldering iron.2 good Wellers/JBCs in each hand and you could probably just lift the cap out, with enough preheat on the board.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2020, 05:27:20 pm
content: Quote from: MadTux on October 04, 2020, 12:17:52 pmI thought it would have been neater if he used a chisel.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 01:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 26, 2020, 04:14:50 pmI dont think price has anything to do with why the cards are crashing. Poscaps are good, high quality caps. But their impedance vs frequency is different than MLCCs. They are probably higher capacity, but they have higher impedance at higher frequencies. Designing a power delivery network for the ~250A, these monster GPUs are using is anything but trivial.But obviously, not enough testing was performed.And yes, the general public will conclude, that MLCC= good POSCAP = BAD.They seem to butchered most aspects of this launch. Not enough cards, delayed review because shipping, delayed drivers for board partners, unstable hardware. And now they delay the 3070 cards because they expect bigger sales.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 05:25:59 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 06, 2020, 01:31:49 pmMaybe the price was just an assumption, but 6 or 8 MLCC placements/components versus one higher capacity poscap ... surely end to end, not just BOM it would be cheaper to go with the single component?But... yes. I fully expect to see PC Gamer components being marketed as having 100% MLCC capacitors FOR THE WIN! And if you dare tell them they are full of shit they'll spray poorly grounded out of context nonesense at you.(Rant! I bought a new Wifi router. I decided to throw some money at it, go for £150-200. Was considering a glitzy Nighthawk, but paused and decided to look for less bling more features and less marketing bullshit... but got distracted and came back and bought the Nighthawk R8000. It's absolutely f****** rubbish, pos. Router? It doesn't even support proper DHCP, DNS, static routes, SNMP and it changes it's static, manually assigned LAN IP because a DNS server in DHCP had the same subnet.... Yea. Randomly updates it's ip address and subnet to disappear off your network without a MAC Scan. Had to factory reset the thing 5 times, before I flashed open source firmware on it and ... it's still stupid as shiny black plank. Waste of money.), but it was FOR GAMERS!QuoteThe not releasing drivers for testing early. The not actually implementing their own reference design and then not really testing it with the drivers, but expecting the AIBs to.... then give them the driver a few weeks before launch.The allowing bots to buy 90% of the cards and inflate the market.All annoying, but fun to watch. I will wait till the dust settles and consider a 3070

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 10:07:44 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 09, 2020, 06:17:47 pmWell the VR update for MSFS came out today. I just did a circuit at my home base, it’s a completely different experience, overall much for the better. Just wow in fact, with a couple of caveats.I use it with a Reverb G2, Honeycomb yoke, Saitek throttle quadrant, and Thrustmaster rudder pedals. I have the elevator trim set up on the left yoke up/down switches.Mostly the immersion is excellent, although there is no motion controller functionality. I use a mouse to point to do things like the strobes, pitot heat, parking brake and flaps etc, as I’m not familiar enough with the various controller settings I set up: with the headset on, you’d have to fumble about blindly, thus I use the mouse instead.When setting up the journey, no on screen keyboard comes up so you have to lift the headset to find and use the physical keyboard.Machine is a stock i7-8700k, 32GB RAM, 1TB NVME SSD and RTX 2080 TI, Asrock Z370 Gaming ITX/ac mobo, all in a tiny Sliger SM560 mini ITX case.The frame rate isn’t particularly special, but the VR immersion far outweighs running it on a monitor for me, and I am using the out of the box settings.I burst out laughing while taxiing off the runway after landing, when my cat started tapping me on the shoulder looking for some attention: the immersion was such that it felt like someone was sitting in the back tapping me on the shoulder.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 10:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on September 26, 2020, 04:14:50 pmLOW ESR SP-CAP is not cheaper than 10 MLCC. At least when looking at publicly available distributor prices. Not to say some manufacturers used higher capacitance than suggested by reference design and still kept SP-CAPs.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2020, 10:29:41 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on December 22, 2020, 10:07:44 pmYep. When I'm driving in my car my ecig vape thing sits on the passenger seat. The first game I played in VR was a racing sim. Sitting in the cockpit I kept looking down towards the passenger seat for my vape. Then realising and going "doh!"On the Oculus original you can detach the bottom of the face gasket and cut off a bit of foam around your nose to give you a little gap to peer through for the keyboard. It also allows airflow from a fan which becomes important if you go under the hood for an hour or more. Especially if you wear glasses.Before I had "TrackIR", but what that doesn't give you is access to your brains multi-target point tracking system. In VR with the head motion being 1:1 in all axises your brain can suddenly properly track multiple targets and switch your view almost instantly and accurately. I mean you can be landing on the carrier where most of your attention is focused, but instantly turn your head to look at the destroyer on your left or the cruiser on your right as your brain knows where they are and you can instantly move your attention there.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2020, 11:26:16 am
content: I also ran MSFS in VR with my 3080 card on a 3900X system.Works pretty OK. Frame rate is not as high as I would like, but when it's not loading assets I think MSFS is doing a pretty good job of frame interpolation (of some kind). I run mostly medium settings around busy airports (like Schiphol), where the framerate is a bit jittery, but once I'm out of the area (which for a plane and a small country like NL is very quick) I flick clouds to Ultra and just sit back & enjoy. Very prettyI'm really surprised by the immersion. I did a flight around Alaska near sunrise with live cloudy weather, and was really amazed by what I saw from the cockpit. It feels almost unreal if you never experience these things from an airplane cockpit.Definitely happy that I was able to get a 3000 series card for this. Also will be picking up Cyberpunk in the holidays to wind down. That game also runs very smoothly on RT Ultra

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2020, 10:08:43 am
content: Quote from: paulca on December 24, 2020, 10:29:41 amI had a TrackIR some years ago on FSX. Like you suggest, it's not perfect, you move your head and have to back-correct by moving your eyes in the opposite direction.My old FSX setup ended up having so many plug ins and hacks, I spent too much time just trying to get it to start up, so I lost interest, although I did used it to help with memory items before tests, but mostly gave up with all the add-ons.My rudder pedals are too sensitive, I need to figure out how to resolve that, it's almost impossible to taxi along the centre lines. Speaking of which, it'd be a nice add on to have centre line cat's eyes bump feedback!

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2021, 07:14:22 pm
content: I bit the bullet this last week and rebuilt my FS VR rig, from an i7 8700K + RTX 2080ti to an R7 5600X + RTX 3090. Stunning performance compared to the old rig.All in an 11L mini ITX build Sliger SM560 with top, bottom and both sides ventilated.It's a tight squeeze, and the GPU (MSI Trio 3090) runs nicely toasty. 5600X with 65W TDP running PBO with a Cryorig C7 G runs fine for normal loads, although AIDA 64 gives it a run for the money.I had to update the mobo BIOS (Gigabyte X570 I Auros) using G Flash plus without the CPU installed, and dropped the PCIE down to Gen 3.0: I'd imagine the ~12" riser cable does nothing to help the signal integrity for Gen 4.0.I also had to hack the case internals slightly to make the GPU fit inside: there's a GPU cutout in the bulkhead at the front of the case that needed an extra centimetre or so of height. Length wise, there's only 2mm of case space left.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 12:10:58 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 05, 2021, 07:14:22 pmThey actually sell 3090 in UK? It's just vaporware here.Cheapest RTX 3090 here is 2200 EUR (that's 2650 USD) for a card with the MSRP of 1500 USD. No thanks.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 12:48:18 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 06, 2021, 12:10:58 ameBay. My card MSI Trio Gaming X was almost exactly local MSRP (GBP1799 inc VAT, I paid GBP1800 inc shipping on eBay).That was not before having to reject an eBay chancer who invented some unacceptable Ts & Cs (no returns, forfeiture of eBay & Paypal buyer protections): he could have sent an empty box under those terms.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2021, 02:38:45 pm
content: You guys have problems... over here, I have had about 1 in 3 orders cancelled and 1 in 3 adding a delivery surcharge. Brexit and the NI Protocol has retailers and couriers confused.Anything delivered by Amazon themselves works fine. Ebay orders are very hit and miss.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 04:38:25 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 06, 2021, 12:48:18 pmSeller can invent whatever bullshit terms he/she wants. Does not matter to ebay/paypal a dime.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 08:33:06 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on February 07, 2021, 04:38:25 pmThe seller cancelled the transaction as I refused to acknowledge his Ts & Cs were enforceable.In other news, when I'm not in VR flight sim, that 3090 is making about $300/mo in Eth mining - I'm seeing 123MH/s.It renders 4k60p video at about 2.25x faster than real time, about twice as fast as I was managing before.Regarding the 65W TDP 5600X, it's tuned up very nicely too, even in the small form factor case.Mobo is Gigabyte X570 I Auros with a newly released F33a BIOS that includes extra Precision Boost Overdrive 2 (PBO2) settings introduced in AGESA 1.1.8.0. allowing some extra tweaking.FWIW, the settings I tweaked: Drop PCIEx16 to Gen 3.0 (due to riser), select XMP Memory profile (32GB RAM is 2 x 16GB 3600MHz CL16 dual rank), PBO set to Advanced, negative 20 all core curve optimization, PPT 540, TDC 300, EDC 360 (these 3 fudge factors were copied from Ryzen Master's suggestion), and +150MHz CPU Boost clock override.This peaks the core clocks at 4.8GHz in limited threads or short time bursts, with the curve optimization reducing power consumption to keep the thermal envelope reasonable.Some pretty impressive synthetic benchmarks:Code:Single/MultiCPUZ 1.95 655 / 5175Geekbench 5 1649 / 9150Passmark 3609 /24146Cinebench R15 261 / 1974Cinebench R20 616 / 4583Cinebench R23 1589 /11604In single core it's around 30 to 40% faster than the 8700K it's replacing (both are 6C12T), and 25 to 60% faster in multi core depending on the synthetic test.