Thinking About Spending 400 Bucks For a DS1054Z Scope, Having Second Thoughts - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pm
content: My apologies if this has been posted beforeBut I need a good scope, and this thing seems surprisingly promising. But what should I know about it before buying one?I seem to be seeing bug reports and issues all over the place! Right before posting this, literally the first topic on the list...So it seems like I am in for a wild ride with these fancy digital scopesWhat should I know before spending 400 bucks?Questions such as:How good is Rigol at replacing DOA devices, knowing me I will get a faulty unit first or it will fail the day after warranty...Is there any better option at this price point, even if I buy a used one?Has someone hacked the software/hardware to get the full 100mhz out of it? Would it stay on a firmware update?I have seen Dave's videos on it, such as fixing what I call the "Jitterbug" and how the PLL was poorly designed, was its hardware updated to not have the issue in the first place? Dave was not real impressed with the signal there, even after the new firmware.Are there any dealbreaking issues with it, like poor quality rotary encoders, spontaneous explosions, etc.?Thank you guys for the help!

author: Alfons
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 08:50:00 pm
content: Well, what can I say? That Rigol is one of the best documented devices here in the forum. The color of the unit may not have been discussed in detail. That would have deserved even a separate thread.Although I'd never be the unit open by me, I can tell what function the second screw in the top left inside. What more do you want?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 08:53:00 pm
content: the ds1054z is the best bang for buck today, and has been for what ... a year now ?if you have only $400 to spend, then buy the rigolif you have more then may be you can grab something betteror you can also be the keysight giveway winner ? or find someone in the street that gives you a $10000 scope ? who knows.but don't bother for these bugs, there are always bugs in any electronic equipment and the ds1054 does not make an exception for thatand yes you can hack it to 100MHz and all options activated.

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 09:01:23 pm
content: Quote from: Alfons on February 22, 2016, 08:50:00 pmhad to read this a couple times, I am still chucklingWhat I really want to know is if I can just buy this scope and expect it to work fine even after 10 years (though I do expect to be replacing the CapXon Caps and the Sunon fan with some Rubycons and a Delta fan after that pointI mean I really dont know a whole lot about digital scopes even though I watch the EEVBlog on a regular basis. It seems to me like this is one of those "Good beginner scope if you are willing to dink with it" sort of thing. It's almost like the guys who programmed sonic '06 worked on the firmware of the scope. Okay, maybe not that buggyQuote from: kripton2035 on February 22, 2016, 08:53:00 pmYa, my phone screwed up so I need to buy a new one, so 400 bucks is pretty much my maxWhere is this keysight giveaway? I saw dave's video on it but I was so out of it, I forgot how to exit fullscreenI plan to use my imac I got for free to get the scope, hopefully I can get 400 bucks for it on craigslist...Fair enough, I have found bugs in extremely simple things beforeAwesome. I am absolutely certain I will not need the 100mhz upgrade but you know, if its there, it makes you feel better

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 09:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmYes, this has indeed been posted before.Go ahead and buy it. It's so popular for good reasons. The less popular scopes have bugs too, just with less people talking about those...

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 09:05:42 pm
content: All these scary things are why I use a couple of old old Tek 465B's. Already 35 years old and both going strong...

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 09:07:34 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 22, 2016, 09:03:29 pmI guess so, I used to think WD was shit because those were the drives I always got from our IT's junk pile, but it was because like 99% of the PCs used WD drivesQuote from: MrSlack on February 22, 2016, 09:05:42 pmKinda like the old transistor amp in my truck, it just keeps working after like 30+ years

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 11:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 09:01:23 pmFirst rule of buying test equipment: don't intend to use it for more than 5 years because by then it will be severly outdated. I think on average I got a different (better) scope every 3 years.If you have a bit more to spend then GWInstek is worth a look because their scopes have less bugs and a better implementation of features like FFT and decoding so they are actually useful.

author: wblock
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 12:05:09 am
content: That GW Instek GDS-1054B is actually a little cheaper than the Rigol.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 12:16:41 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 09:01:23 pmtrying to make short a possible long story , let's say this : if your budget is actually 400USD and you have a good eye vision (screen small fonts warning) pull the triggerright nowfor the DS1054Z and start to study the hack procedure.There isat leastone thread by week about DS1054Z/DS2072A purchase intents and possible alternatives, 99% of times the OP ends buying Rigol.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 12:18:28 am
content: Quote from: wblock on February 23, 2016, 12:05:09 amNot in EU, here is a lot more expensive, dunno why.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 01:20:53 am
content: If your budget is really 400 bucks, then buy the Rigol.You'll not regret it. It's still the nr. 1 in this priceclass.

author: MSO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:24:16 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 09:07:34 pmI'm not sure about that amp, but you definitely have an amazing truck.

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 05:38:30 am
content: Quote from: markone on February 23, 2016, 12:16:41 amI love hacking crap and voiding warrantiesAnd I have the best eyesight anyone at school has ever seen, nobody can beat my vision testsThus why I have the scaling on my nexus 7 to where text is insanely smallThisOn a 7 in screen, I think I can handle the scope's small text

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 05:44:47 am
content: Just buy one. If you're in the US buy it from tequipment using the discount they offer for eevblog members and get it a even cheaper.

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 05:55:53 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on February 23, 2016, 05:44:47 amI was not aware of this discount! How do I get it?

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 05:59:24 am
content: I'm now using my third DS1054z in a year. The first one had a bad glitch, hardware related, on CH4 and I returned it to TEquipment for replacement during their 30-day warranty period. No hassles there, except the inconvenience of being without a scope for a week--- after waiting two months for initial delivery (out of stock, dock strike, etc etc). The second one (the TEquipment replacement) was the unit with Boot Version 0.0.1.2 that I had so much fun with, documenting the Freeze Bug and a few other bugs. Rigol USA eventually offered to exchange that one with a new one, since they couldn't reproduce the Freeze Bug on any of the newer scopes they had on hand. SO they sent me a new one and I returned the old one, they paid shipping both ways. SO now I'm on the third unit, which has Boot Version 0.0.1.3 and does not freeze. The newest firmware SP2 has its little problems too.But the scope(s) have never blown up on me! And I still use it every day. So sure, buy one, I'm sure you'll like it. And I'm pretty sure it won't blow up on you.

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 06:40:18 am
content: So far it seems like the majority of you guys if not everyone says that this scope is a good buy. I will see if I can deposit my spare 400$ cash tomorrow

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:11:15 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmI hope those few people who endlessly go on and on and on and on and on.... and on and on and on ... and on and on and on about a couple of very minor bugs (including a spelling mistake!) in this oscilloscope are proud of what they do.Putting people off from owning something amazing.Just get one.(YouWON'Tregret it, honest)

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:49:36 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 09:01:23 pmhaving had ds1052e for 5 years... all parts are still going strong... no need replacement caps on psu... except.... front panel knobs and rubber buttons. At some point you are going to open it up to make service n replacement... replace or clean all non-responding encoders... and beef up carbon contact on the rubber buttons, and thats it...if you are not up for the job, then find another brand.. i have ds1054z for few weeks now and encoders click buttons are not responding,need to press few times.. not sure hw defect or sw lag... ds1000z series sw lag is the king...

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 08:35:01 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 09:01:23 pmWhat you can expect is that the scope works for three years because that's how long the warranty runs on that thing. Everything beyond that is pretty much luck, because there's no additional warranty or repair agreements available, and you don't know how long Rigol will repair it even if you paid for it.Not saying the scope won't last 10 years (it very well might do) but 10 years pretty much exceeds even the assumed service life of many big brand instruments, and these usually aren't designed with mostly a focus on the lowest possible price point in mind, have undergone extensive testing, have a determined lifecycle with spares and support availability and so on.Don't get me wrong, the DS1054z is a great scope for its price, and if you only have $400 then this is the one to go for as in this price class you won't find anything better. But at the end of the day it's still a bottom-of-the-barrel scope with buggy firmware from a Chinese B-brand, designed and produced in a way to reach an incredible low price.Buying bargain bin kit and expecting it to last 10 years is silly.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 08:47:48 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 22, 2016, 11:40:43 pmTo be fair, I had a TDS2024 for about eight or nine years, and until about 18 months ago, not knowing and better I was happy to continue that way. Then I found EEVBlog. I'm not sure if I'm now in the 20 scope brigade, but I can't be far off.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 09:03:12 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 08:35:01 amI would assume a life expectancy on par with typical consumer electronics. Based on my experience with low-cost audio gear, computers/notebooks/tablets, hand-held multimeters etc., 10 years is not an unrealistic expectation.More often than not, I have replaced this type of gear with a newer/fancier successor before 10 years were over. (And this might very well happen with your scope.) But I have often kept the old equipment around and kept using it for dedicated purposes. The majority of devices have survived 10 years and sometimes much more. But some have failed, and as rightly stated by Wuerstchenhund, you can't expect manufacturer support in terms of repair service, spare parts etc. for this type of equipment after that long time.A positive aspect of buying a popular device is that it tends to be easier to find inofficial documentation, including repair and spare part advice, on the internet, so you may be able to repair yourself.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 09:10:17 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 23, 2016, 05:38:30 amremember to redo the test again at the age of 39 on an 4.8" sm screen, eevblog classic site, not tapatalk creep active... a little advice.. dont get short of vit.c supply and look at the sky and trees each morning and dont read too much myth and love story novel creep until you reach 39..

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 09:22:42 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmDepends on the dealer you buy it from, but they're pretty good.Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmNope. Nothing else is even close.Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmYes. Yes.Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmThen you already know what a bargain it is.Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pma) You don't have to be 'impressed', it just has to work.b) At least Rigol is listening and putting out firmware updates.Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmRemember it's only a $400 'scope, which isincredibly cheapfor the features. Game changing.But ... there's nothing obvious you can point at and say "that's rubbish, they should have spent $0.02 more and used a better one".Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 22, 2016, 08:19:53 pmThat's a bit like asking if a car will still work fine after 10 years. It all depends on how much you drive it, and how hard.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 09:49:49 am
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 23, 2016, 05:38:30 amStill at school, eh?Yeah, we all used to think we were superman at that age.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 09:54:50 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 23, 2016, 09:03:12 amYep. I certainly expect mine to last several years.Quote from: ebastler on February 23, 2016, 09:03:12 ameg. There's threads on here about replacing the fan for a quieter one, replacing the rotary encoders with clicky ones, etc.All those "modding" threads will be good resources if it ever breaks.Also expect to see a few "repair" threads a few years from now.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 01:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 08:35:01 amYou know very well that the same criteria apply whith A brands bottom of the barrel catalog offering, with the difference that you pay twice the prices ( Lecroy WaveAce 1000/2000 is a shamefull example ).I do not think that a decent alternative would be older Siglent & Rigol rebranded models sold @ 2-3x cost with pathetic A Brand sticker.Let's say the simple truth, right now there is no competition on this market segment, the DS1054Z is a no brainer choice and Rigol service quality is not that bad.All the talking around wonderful A Brand service quality sometime is BS, for instance we had a bad experience with a PC based Lecroy Waverunner, it was prone to freeze or behave in a nasty way, after many useless HDD format / Windows XP re-install and SW/FW patching it was sent to EU central service facility.It was returned after one month accompanied by a nice 1500 Euro repair invoice, few days later it restarted to show the very same problem ...Then i was allowed by the an altered lab responsible to put my hands on it, i taked it apart completely, cleaningeverysingle connector, a 2-3 hours job that fixed definitively the problem, after 4 years is still running like a charm.Taking it apart it was clear that the instrument was not opened by the service, so how can we consider that 1500 euro repair invocie, maybe a ripp off ?I do.Of course the representative was promptly informed and of course he was very sympathetic about that, but after lot of useless talking the invoice was paid anyway (big corporation luxury).Uselees to say that starting from that point other brands had better luck with their instrument sales in that environmentAnyway mine old glory Rigol DS1022CD still works good after about 10 years of proud service, right now is serving like backup scope so i'm going to swap the PSU's main capacitor just as precaution.I have inflicted to it some medievals (see picture) fixing its orrible cooling system ( 50mm screaming fan placed against very small case holes) where the PSU 3.3V line was obtained from a 6.4V voltage bar by mean a linear regulator (LM317)Considering that DS1000Z scopes have a much better overall build quality, i would say that (if you have a good eye sight) you cannot spend 400USD for a scope in a better way.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 02:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: markone on February 23, 2016, 01:29:36 pmIs that the one that blue-screens if you spin the timebase knob a bit too fast?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lets-talk-about-lecroy-scopes-aka-the-wuerstchenhund-holds-court-thread/msg797542/#msg797542Yeah, Rigol DS1054Z has nothing like that.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:07:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2016, 02:23:26 pmIf you are talking about the expensive Lecroy that i fixed (paid over 10K euro at the end of year 2008), we got hundreds of blue screens, anyway not correlated to timebase knob setting.The most boring thing, never solved by any software update, is that it tends to slow down the capture rate after a while and you have to often recall the default setting to restore its original perfromance.From that experience i learned an important lesson : never buy a PC based scope.

author: Alfons
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:41:33 pm
content: The shouting was great, when the first Korean cars appeared here in Germany. The quality was really bad. But soon the korean Companies learned also, that you can only exist on the market when supplies quality. And today the cars from Korea are absolutely competitive.Rigol can not afford to build scrap because actually want market share, build a distributor - and service network on. I do not think that the devices have a built-limited shelf life. Of course, the electronic parts are not last forever, but ten years should the equipment in normal environment keep loose. Of course there will be defects, but I do not believe that will be above average.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: markone on February 23, 2016, 01:29:36 pmWow, someone is in rabid fanboi mode again it seems.Maybe you should have spend a bit less time in rambling and a bit more in reading and trying to understand what was written properly. In which case you could have noticed that I already mentioned that an expectation of a 10 years service life is excessive even for big brand gear.QuoteThat is right, but then I'm not sure why you bring that up because I certainly didn't say anything different.QuoteAgain, you're barking to the wrong tree, I already said that in its price class the DS1054z is top notch and that there isn't much elseQuoteWell, let's just say it's probably appropriate for what you can reasonably expect for a $400 B-brand device.QuoteYeah, sure. You want to tell us with a serious face that your employer pays EUR1500 for a repair (which is warranted by LeCroy), and when the failure comes back a few days later instead of sending it back he not only writes off EUR1500 but also has an employee spending his own time looking for failure? Seriously?QuoteYeah, sure. I can tell you that in such a case the CSR will not just 'sympathetic', he'll have the instrument collected in an instant. I know because I know the CSRs in the Geneva facility.QuoteProbably no loss, if what you say is true it seems whoever is responsible for the budget in your sector doesn't seem to be very competent anyways if he pays for repairs that didn't work and spends employee time fixing faults on test gear that are covered by warranty.QuoteWhich to any capable engineer that knows his tools would have immediately shown that there is something wrong (as mentioned in other threads, the first models of the WRXi Series that you are talking about had a heat problem, LeCroy subsequently changed the cooling and retrofitted new fans to the affected scopes for free - of course you'd have to contact them first).QuoteYou may have learnedsomethingbut since you're obviously unable to connect the dots (or the story is bogus) I doubt it was anything useful or related to reality.I can tell you from experience that PC based scopes work just fine, and unless you're buying bottom-of-the-barrel/entry level you won't get anything else anyways (and despite your ill thought out conclusions you drew from a single scope customers love PC based scopes and the companies who make them are still selling them, go figure). And of course scopes based on embedded platforms do fail as well, but I'm sure you know that.Anyways, that was pretty much a rant about nothing. Well done!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:04:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2016, 02:23:26 pmYou mean the scope from a guy that hasn't updated the firmware in 14 years? No, that's not the same.You really seem to have a fable for parroting things you just read somewhere without any consideration for the background behind it, don't you? Or is this more a case of selective representation of facts to fit your agenda?Talk about rabid fanboism

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:14:34 pm
content: Well, I am depositing 400 bucks today to buy myself a shiny new scopeIn the meantime, I will watch you guys argueRemember, you just have to hold your tongue at the right angleI am joking of course. But thank you all for the suggestions!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:37:42 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 04:04:20 pmI've mentioned it exactlyONCEin these forums. That up there ^^^? That was the very first time.Try counting how many times the spelling mistake in the DS1054Z menu has been mentioned by certain forum members. Go after them instead, Mr Policeman.(apparently the spelling mistake is as serious as buying a new car and finding it can't turn left).Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 23, 2016, 04:14:34 pmI'm just getting warmed up.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:50:36 pm
content: As a software guy, a spelling mistake is a lack of attention to detail. It's like a rust spot on a car; a sign things underneath are not as they seem. Office 365 OWA is a fine example of that. It barely works and on the front end:

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 04:00:33 pmOk, so you switched to aggressive mode, that's your usual style, i'll try to adapt my answer to that.Being you the president of Lecroy's fanboy club, it appears that you are not on the right pulpit to talk about any kind of fanboyism.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 04:00:33 pmYes, i'm serious like an heart attack, if you are in the middle of an important project activity (and not dicking on web forums) and you need to use that instrument "right now" maybe you find yourself doing this kind of things, we had (they had) on the plate much more than the 1500 euro Lecroy's service ripp-off invoice.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 04:00:33 pmYes, another wait of a month a maybe another invoice ...The instrument was fixed a lot before than the representative came along with a replacement demo scope, my time costed a lot less than 1500 euro to my employer (not the right term, i'm an external consultant) and last but not the least i provided him with a working scope but above all we were able to conclude our urgent laboratory activities.Of course we had several others scopes in the lab but the needed current clamp probes and voltage differential probes were all Lecroy specific, so we need to use that specific scope (another important lesson learned).Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 04:00:33 pmYes we all know, here the only competent buyer is Wuerstchenhund, who gets hundreds of expensive electronic equipments from ebay at a fraction of their cost, of course all of them in perfect working order withouyt any hassle

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 05:01:26 pm
content: Quote from: iamdarkyoshi on February 23, 2016, 04:14:34 pmCould you elaborate this ?

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 05:04:13 pm
content: Quote from: markone on February 23, 2016, 05:01:26 pmI am at school again, would find the video where dave goes into great detail about the technique, etc. but the PC I am using cannot even play 200x200 animated gifs, let alone youtube videos

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2016, 04:37:42 pmSure... and compare that to the number of posts from people complaining about _fan noise_ or the fact that they can't seem to press a knob without also rotating it. Total non-issues as far as I'm concerned. I even bought a quiet fan before my first Rigol arrived, based on the constant whining about fan noise. And that fan is still in its factory packaging, since the Rigol's fan is barely audible, much quieter than my computer's seven fans. And there are people who want to replace the rotary encoders in their scopes, voiding the warranty, because they don't have the coordination to press a knob without turning it!Quote from: MrSlack on February 23, 2016, 04:50:36 pmExactly. Lack of attention to detail, rushing out an "upgrade" to firmware that introduces more bugs than it fixes. Heck, even "Pluses" wouldn't be so bad... if it actually counted the pulses reliably.Fungus, you forgot to mention the other bugs I've reported "over and over". Like the Measurements simply stopping completely at random times when a Math trace is in use, or the horizontal error with Math at 500 ns/div. Of course... ifyounever use these features you won't notice the bugs and so you won't care about them. My old mother never made left turns in her car, either, preferring to go around the block instead. However.... the scope is sold with these features as part of its capabilities... so at least _some_ users might actually expect them to work as designed.Tell me, Fungus ... have I ever actually _advised against_ buying this oscilloscope? On the contrary, I find it very useful, and also very amusing. Reporting 8 "Pluses" when there are actually 10 shown on the screen--- cracks me up every time. Reminding myself not to use 500 ns/div when I expect a correct Math result-- hilarious. Turning Math on and off so that the measurements don't stop working when I least expect it.... more fun than poking myself in the eye with a sharp stick, that is.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:37:41 pm
content: Quote from: markone on February 23, 2016, 04:58:54 pmCall it what you want, it's you who started rambling and arguing where there was nothing to argue.QuoteJust because I know the scopes very well doesn't make me a fanboi. At least I don't have to go on and have to tell everyone how it's the greatest thing since sliced breadQuoteOK, just that I get this right: You're saying you needed that scope right now for a very costly task, and when it failed instead of using another one (or can your shop only afford a single scope?) or just renting one from one of the many specialist providers you found enough time to open it, thereby breaking the seal and already invalidating not only the LeCroy warranty for the repair but also the calibration? Yeah, sounds completely reasonable.In other words, critical project stopped because reliance on a single piece of equipment, plus EUR1500 down the drain for a failed repair that can now no longer be rectified because you destroyed the mfgr seal and voided the warranty, plus the cost at your hourly charge-out rate for you poking around in the scope.If this was happening in one of our labs then whoever approved that would have found himself in getting serious attention of the uncomfortable kind. That's a prime example of how to not do things (to put it nicely).QuoteNo, a turnaround time of 10 days or less (which is standard) and no invoice because it would have been covered by the warranty on the original repair.QuoteAs I said in other threads, early WaveRunner Xi had a few quality issues due to the Malaysian manufacturing partner LeCroy used at the time, but pretty much all of them were fixed when a scope came in for service or repair. Even such banal things like the carrying handle (the original blue handle tended to break, so LeCroy replaced the handle with the stronger one used in the WRXi-A which is black).QuoteMaybe, but the story is still one of how to not do things. Returning the scope would have cost your customer nothing, and he would have ended up with a fully working, updated and calibrated scope. Instead, he now has a scope that may work but has voided its calibration and its LeCroy warranty, plus he paid not just EUR1500 but also your time. The other thing is that starting critical jobs without adequate fallback options if test gear fails (which it often does at the most inconvenient moment ever) is pretty naive. From what you say I don't think yourself can be blamed (and I know that corporate customers can be difficult at times), but as I said whoever approved all this hasn't exactly shown great management skills.QuoteWhich should have been another reason to make sure a fallback scope is available, even if its rented. And since LeCroy hasn't changed its probe interface since the mid-'90s it wouldn't even have to be the same model, series or generation, as long as the corner specs (bw, sample rate, memory) are sufficient. I'm sure for less than the cost of the time you spent fixing the scope they could have bought a WR2LT instead, which could serve as a fallback and might have seen other uses, too (they're still very nice scopes).Working on critical tasks with probes for which only one scope is available without a fallback is pretty short-sighted. Sometimes these things happen, but then you simply have to live with the possible consequences.QuoteWell, actually ebay has been pretty painless for me as a buyer, but that's not difficult if you pay some minimal attention and know what you want (and what the gear is worth). It's not rocket science. But I also have seen my fair share of DOAs (new gear) and failed repairs from pretty much any big brand T&M vendor. It simply happens. Not often, but it does. And every time the vendor did everything possible to rectify the situation as quickly as possible, including where providing loaners when required.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:41:13 pm
content: Let's get some perspective here:Does anybody know of a bug-free DSO? Is anybody going to stand up and say their DSO is bug-free?

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:45:32 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2016, 07:41:13 pmJeez, I have had calculators with bugs before. Squashing every bug in a complicated device like a DSO is damn near impossible

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2016, 07:41:13 pmHas anyone ever claimed a DSO can be bug-free? Is anyone going to stand up and claim that a DSO is bug-free?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 07:50:44 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2016, 07:41:13 pmAFAIK I have never spotted bugs on my Tektronix DSOs (2230, TDS510A, TDS744A), Iwatsu, Yokogawa and the Agilent DSO7104A seems to work albeit some parts of the UI are a bit weird.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 08:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 07:37:41 pmYou sure ?I had some doubts about that when you suggested a Keysight8bitscope for FFT analisys on audio system as a specific instrument :Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on January 30, 2016, 12:35:43 pmQuote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 23, 2016, 07:37:41 pmWell, to put it nicely, i can olny see a lot of, gazzilions of hours spent here during job time, i smellseriousBS.

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 04:11:17 pm
content: Well, I have gone and done it. Bought it from TEquipment and got the EEVBlog discount. Figured for 4 bucks I might as well require a signatureNow to wait.Sorry, I had toAnyway, thanks for the suggestions everyone, I cant WAIT for this thing to arrive!