Brass sponge has ruined my soldering tip. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: tehtehteh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:22:34 pm
content: I've had this soldering iron for years, I always took care of the tip and it was still in great condition after all these years. I use the wet sponge that came with it but found it tedious so this week I finally switched to a brass sponge as a lot of people say they prefer it.This is now what my tip looks like after ONE day of soldering. What on earth am I doing wrong?(This picture is a silhouette, it is still very shiny in reality but it's being eaten away)

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:28:26 pm
content: That wasn't brass, it was green cryptonite!But seriously: I've never seen something like that before.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:29:15 pm
content: Err what iron was that? My metcal hasn’t disintegrated in 3 years with brass wool

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:35:06 pm
content: I've never seen that before.Where did you get the brass wool from? It must have some nasty chemicals on it.

author: tehtehteh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:42:06 pm
content: It's one of these:https://www.hakko.co.uk/product/599b-dry-tip-cleaner-and-holder/I got it as a filler item on Mouser to bump the order up to free delivery. But it's now cost me a new tip and I don't think I want to use it again.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:45:00 pm
content: I think the problem might be your tip was made of Chinesium.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:48:39 pm
content: Your tip used an unstable isotope.With a half life of 24 hours.Very soon it will decay into dust.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 09:56:08 pm
content: I've seen that before on even high quality tips from Weller and the like. It's corrosion of the iron coating leading to molten tin getting in contact with the copper core and dissolving it. So I've read, anyway.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 10:03:52 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on September 02, 2021, 09:56:08 pmThat certainly can happen, but to have the tip eaten away to that extent in a day is pretty surprising.

author: MAS3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 10:39:12 pm
content: I've seen tips like that.They were used to melt plastics / wire isolation.But i'm sure you removed the brass from the plastic it was packaged in before you used it, right ?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 10:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on September 02, 2021, 09:56:08 pmyeh, maybe tip was on its last legs from years of use and the brass sponge was what finally broke the coating

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 10:59:32 pm
content: Calibrate your soldring iron temp again, but now with +20C lower temp due to the Global warming, the added Global warming effect will burn your soldering tip faster.Beware of the " soldering tip global warming deniers", they got tons of mems and youtube videos claiming that it dosent exsist!

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 02:16:07 am
content: If that a genuine Hakko wool then it should be OK. Some "brass" wools is really copper or brass coated/colored STEEL. I got some lower cost "brass" wool from Bangood that was magnetic. I'm never going to use it.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 03:22:51 am
content: Probably a Chinese junk metal tip and had already become compromised through heat cycles. Brass wools purpose is to easily remove dross without damaging the iron plating. So it had to be some low grade rubbish alloy or plating to begin with.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 03:59:21 am
content: Where are the missing pieces of the tip? Are they in the sponge or did they drop into the iron holder/stand? A magnet might help you collect them.Can you make it go even worse? ie repeat this experiment for science. Try using that already-bad tip & the sponge some more, then perhaps also try a similar/identical tip.If you can't make it worse, find the missing parts or repeat the damage on another tip: perhaps your iron has had those holes in it for years, but cleaning it with a sponge has never "emptied" those holes of their solder?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 04:09:03 am
content: Are you sure that didn't get used with acid core solder?I've never seen that happen from using brass wool, although despite trying to like it I've always gone back to a wet sponge, it works so much better for me.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 07:18:23 am
content: Once the iron coating goes away, the tip won't last long.Also it heavily depends on the solder alloy used, some will dissolve the copper at a faster rate than others.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 09:18:07 am
content: I have a Hakko 888 and its base has both the wet and the brass sponge - I use both and no issues were observed at all in all those years.That said, I also suspect what others have said: once the coating is broken (case of the more abrasive wool), the tip starts being eaten away. Although not in a day, I have seen this degradation happen quite rapidly with our ancient unregulated soldering irons and with my soldering gun Weller 8800. Many factors influence this: high temperature (300°C is much milder than 400°C); cheap solder; connections with dirty or very old solder (in case of rework/repairs) and the quality/age of the solder tip.Also matters how you are cleaning it on the wool: if you are pushing down or otherwise applying extra force to it, it may degrade faster. I personally use the wool to remove any larger and darker residue on the tip, then "polish" it with the wet sponge.

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 09:33:36 am
content: I have usual sponges with my soldering stations, but usually I don't use them at all. Because I'm too lazy and I fill uncomfortable for thermal shock, I don't fill a water into it so I just use paper towels instead (or usually my own fingers. I have quite thick well trained pro-diyer skin on my finger tips).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 05:13:47 pm
content: The thermal shock is not an issue. Thousands of people have been wiping soldering iron tips on a wet sponge for decades, I've never heard of it causing a problem.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 06:15:29 pm
content: When I got my Hako. which came with brass wool, as well as a sponge. I was worried about the brass wool scratching the tip. I had always used a wet sponge before. Fortunately I didn't have and problems. I still use the sponge more than the wool, simply because it's easier to clean and cheaper to replace, but the wool is good when it gets really dirty.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 06:22:00 pm
content: my guess: after years of inappropriate use (overly wet sponge) the final only proper way to use tip cleaning gave it the restI got a new Weller station (came with brass wool) in 2016 and it still holds the same tip, which is in use every week several times, often for hours. Before I always used a wet sponge, but the experience with the brass wool was convincing from the beginningso, no idea how it came like that

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 06:32:48 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on September 03, 2021, 07:18:23 amThat's not exactly true. My first job in electronics was soldering in wires in the frame rooms of local telcos and I used a big 100Watt American Beauty soldering iron, soldering all day long five days per week with no let ups. It had tips made of copper and they would gradually be dissolved but it took weeks and was no where as bad as what the OP's pictures show. We used a hammer and a block of steel to hammer the tips back into shape and just keep using them. I think we replaced the tips after about a year and after many reshapings. The black gunk on the OP's iron makes me think that he's been melting plastics with it or used some kind of acid core solder or acid flux but I've never seen a tip that eaten away or with that much gunk on it.Another trick we used to do with the Weller type solder guns was to use a piece of ordinary copper house wire to make tips out of instead of buying the overly priced Weller tips. We shaped the wire similar to the factory tip (a sideways V) and then use a hammer and a bench block to thin out the tip so that most of the heating occurred there instead of through the entire length of the wire. even though this was plain ordinary copper wire (16? gauge) taken out a a piece of Romex house wiring I never saw one just dissolve away.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 06:40:17 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 03, 2021, 05:13:47 pmWeller says to use brass wool for that exact reason. The thermal shock hitting the sponge causes rapid contraction and expansion (when it reheats), which leads to metal fatigue and eventual failure of the tip.I agree though most tips can last a long time, but some brands (mostly certain Weller and JBC) seem not to hold up well. Whether it's harsher fluxes, higher temps, plating or they just happen to be outliers - who knows.I prefer brass wool as it doesn't oxidize the tip as much and easier to prevent burnt flux creeping down. I wipe instead of stabbing as otherwise it just pushes rubbish further up the tip. Dry wipes can work well also if the tip has been cleaned and tinned regularly to start with, anything that doesn't burn or melt onto the tip. Fiber brush is best for irregular shaped rework tips.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 06:42:26 pm
content: hakko lasted me since 2011 with only using brass sponge (way too lazy for water but used it sometimes), I love them so long you change the sponge once in a while.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 06:49:54 pm
content: the only thing I ever saw damage a tip fast was aggressive flux.But not even like that much damage, but I have used my soldering iron to solder1) aluminum, using aluminum solder, normal solder, and aluminum flux (it has some weird chemicals in it, possibly flouride)2) steel, I have soldered steel with a welding store brand flux (i think containing zinc chloride), you can solder together a steel enclosure using thin metal using a Hakko 888 with the right flux and solderThe effect of this flux was lack of adhesion of solder to the tip, bad smells, and in some cases a spotty black crust, I think it was causing the iron to dissolve.. I stopped doing it, and cleaning was hardFor stainless steel soldering stuff (i.e. pace resistance tips, or just the shaft), I recommend nylon abrasive dremel brushes being used progressively to 5000 grit (comes in the $20 brush kit) for getting them back to high polish, and then treating with citrisurf or citric acid for 15 min..Are you sure you did not use the wrong kind of flux? Maybe the brass wool was treated with something that was not fully washed out and it reacted with the iron... (some kind of brass passivization and brightening or softening process used in the factory)

author: tehtehteh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 08:29:56 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 03, 2021, 06:32:48 pmThere's no black gunk it's just a weird underexposed picture, in reality the tip was bright fresh solder when I took that. It's the bits getting eaten through I was trying to show.

author: tehtehteh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 08:32:23 pm
content: The same reel of solder has been used the whole time. I have a reel of 60/40 rosin core that's lasted me forever, so much I'm not even half way through. No sign of corrosion until I switched to the brass sponge.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 09:21:27 pm
content: For the 1st few years I was at electronics, and my soldering was mostly terrible, I had some old silver colored pot scrubber, from my grandparents house, placed in a soup can. And it worked great. The scrubber never filled up with solder, and most of it just filled the can. But eventually with use of gummy flux, it did junk up and I threw it out.Then when I got a new Hakko soldering station , its own scrubbers, and then the cheap replacements for it, gummed up right away. Only this current one seems to have lasted any more than a weeks, to now many months.But yeah I never had a problem with my tips giving up, I even used ones I sanded way down for a while, that I had used to lit smokes off of in an "emergency" for a while.

author: bobbydazzler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 10:57:15 pm
content: I doubt it was the brass sponge that destroyed your tip, maybe the inner copper on the tip has been dissolving for some time and the outer iron coating just happened to collapse the day you got your sponge?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2021, 11:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 03, 2021, 06:32:48 pmI have done this maaaaaany times in my life with my old "firestick" soldering irons. If it got terribly gunked, we simply used a file to remove the worst parts and tin it all over again. We had no access to ultra-fancy soldering irons and tips.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 12:24:34 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 03, 2021, 11:43:01 pmI've used a brass screw and a piece of copper plate to make a tip for a Weller that could reach all three pins on a TO220 to make it easier to desolder them

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 12:26:59 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 03, 2021, 11:43:01 pmBefore I got my first job I used to file down the tips to get rid of the pits too but the first that I did that after I got that job they chewed my azz outroyallyfor "wasting copper" by filing the tips instead of pounding the copper back into shape."We had no access to ultra-fancy soldering irons and tips."I never did either until I was in my 30s. Boy, what a revelation the temp controlled irons were!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 12:36:03 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 04, 2021, 12:26:59 amHahaha! Indeed. My first personally owned controlled iron is the Hakko FX888 I have (bought about ten years ago). Before that I had used some fancy ones at work, but only occasionally.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 03:09:03 am
content: Got the brass wool with my Hakko 888 4-5 years ago and started using it rather than the wet sponge. I still have the same Hakko tip on it that came with it and it looks and works like new. I like it.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 12:02:35 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 04, 2021, 12:24:34 amMost of the companies(Weller, Hakko, etc.) make 5.2mm wide tips, which heats up all 3 pins of the TO-220 at the same time...Example:Hakko.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 12:35:48 am
content: to-220-5 staggered will not be solved, and non staggered sucks for probing.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 08:11:16 am
content: Quote from: bobbydazzler on September 03, 2021, 10:57:15 pmIf I had to make a wager, this is the theory I’d put my money on. As soon as I read the original post, this is exactly the scenario that came to mind.It’s easier to apply force to a tip with the brass wool than with a damp sponge, so the hollowed-out tip went unnoticed when only using the sponge.Quote from: james_s on September 03, 2021, 05:13:47 pmIt wasn’t in the past. But the higher temperatures needed for lead-free turned it into one. That’s why they introduced the brass wool. The higher temps are plain and simply harder on the tips in every way, which is why in the early days of RoHS, some manufacturers introduced “lead free” tips, which have thicker iron plating, alongside the traditional ones. (Ersa was like that, for example. Of course, since then,alltheir tips have been “lead-free” and AFAIK they don’t make the old style any more.) Ultimately, the entire industry had to move towards thicker plating. The reduced thermal performance of the thicker plating, combined with the higher temperatures needed, are probably part of why cartridge heater soldering systems have become so popular.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 08:44:56 am
content: I would put good money on it being one of the followingA) Your tip is a non-genuine china copyB) At some point you used the tip to melt plastic or to do something other than soldering. It only takes one misuse to start the process where it slowly disintegrates.C) At some point you used some acid flux solder.You may argue that none of those occurred, did anyone else use/borrow your iron maybe?