Rohde & Schwarz HMO1202 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 07:59:37 am
content: Hello,I am about to buy my first oscilloscope, altough I have worked with analog scopes in college some years ago, digital scopes are new to me.After looking at videos from Dave reviewing various scopes like Rigol, Siglent and Rohde & Schwarz I think the R&S is a very solid unit.Mainly I will be using the oscilloscope for measuring and tracking hum/noise problems in audio amplifiers.As most of these are tube amplifiers, some even run at about 1100v and I would need a capable probe as well.The R&S also has a function generator built in capable of producing a 3 volt amplitude which will probably enough for testing audio amplifiers.But the R&S HMO1202 only has 10.000wfms/s, 2M point memory depth, 32 level brightness intensity, where for example the Rigol DS1054Z has 30.000wfms/s, 12M point memory depth, 64 level brightness intensity. The Rigol DS2072 is even higher!Will the R&S be good enough for me compared to the technical specs of the Rigol models and is it worth the premium price?

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 08:12:17 am
content: The RS also has the IV component tester which could come in handy when you need to identify old parts (if you're working with old tube amps it could come in handy). Rigol offers better bang per buck, but is not without firmware issues common to Chinese scopes.But it really depends on how much you value ergonomics. You will get more performance per dollar with Rigol but that HMO1202 will be much nicer to use. For audio stuff either scope will do the job. HMO also has the more capable FFT function.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 09:23:58 am
content: Very true, the FFT function of the R&S is indeed excellent as Dave showed in the Oscilloscope FFT comparison video, which will be very useful for measuring intermodulation distortion in audio amplifiers.Yet I have to look into the component test function, already own some Peak Electronic component/LCR testers not sure how these compare to the component test function in the R&S.I do value a device that just works smoothly and without too much firmware quirks and willing to pay extra for, another + for the R&S again.In the video reviews of Dave I have seen so far I never seen any shortcoming of the R&S as it comes to trace brightness intensity levels or the lower capture rate compared to other scopes and its not mentioned by Dave either.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 09:36:49 am
content: I'd definitely get the R&S even though it costs a bit more: Better FFT, built in signal generator,silent, nicer to use ... generally much better suited to audio work.You really don't need a lot of wfms/s and memory for that.Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 07:59:37 amThe inputs on the HMO1202 are rated for 100V max, which isn't a lot.I'd get a fixed 100x probe for looking at high voltages.In fact: I'd get a fixed x10 probe for general work as well. They're cheap enough and you can't accidentally switch them to 1x mode.(I'm not sure why switchable 1x/10x probes are the standard - they confuse newbies and the 1x mode is almost never used)Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 07:59:37 amYes. Yes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 09:50:53 am
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 07:59:37 amAlso take a look at the scopes from GW Instek. A less well known brand from Taiwan but their GDS2000E and GDS1000B series have long memory, fastest & longest FFT compared to any scope in the low end segment, a bigger screen than the HMO1202, individual channel controls, 4 channel models and very few issues. One of the things the GW Instek scopes can do is show up to 10 FFT peaks in a list; I guess that would be easy when adjusting an amplifier to give minimal distortion.Don't stare yourself blind on waveforms/s. Anything over 1000 will be good to work with. For measuring high voltages you'll need 100:1 or even 1000:1 probes with the right ratings. A signal generator doesn't need to be expensive either and I would prefer to have one externally because it is be easier to control.

author: eeadata
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 09:55:36 am
content: Digital scopes are ok for ripple but not useful at noise measurements in audio range apps . Vertical resulation is a problem in audio.I want a FULL HD screened (needed to display big portion of hi vertical res. signals , Zoom capability also)1 mhz 16 bit spesific standalone audio scope but noone produces.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 10:04:00 am
content: Quote from: eeadata on August 14, 2016, 09:55:36 amI believe some of the Picoscopes offer 16bit resolution, and as USB scopes they use the PC's monitor which can be as big and hi res as you want.

author: eeadata
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 10:05:55 am
content: As i'd mentioned before i want a standalone unit . Hardware knobs !!!...

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 10:28:57 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 14, 2016, 09:36:49 amThe datasheet mentions its inputs are 200v at 1Meg or 5v at 50Ohm, I wonder if scopes do have some overvoltage protection?Even so 200v is not that much but I think most measurements are done with the probe.The HMO1202 comes with 2 RT-ZP03 probes which are switchable 1-10x which I think will be good enough for most work and i'm going to order a HZ53 probe as well which is 100x (1200v max)Quote from: nctnico on August 14, 2016, 09:50:53 amWith a capture rate of 10.000 wfms/s the R&S will be fine then, I will take a look into the GW Instek.I noticed the R&S has the smallest display but it actually does show 10 time divisions or 12 without menu, the GW Instek GDS1000B has a larger display but only shows up to 10 divisions and the Rigol DS1054Z 12 divisions.Right now I do not own a signal generator when buying the R&S I will see how this will work out for me using the built in generator I could later buy a dedicated signal generator if I need more convenience.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 10:46:43 am
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 10:28:57 amYep, you're right. It's 200V. Memory fails me.Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 10:28:57 amIf it could safely handle 250V you can bet they'd write "250V" on the front.Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 10:28:57 amIt's not that switchable probes can't do the job, it's that they're too easy to switch to 1x. I'd be unhappy using them if I was regularly poking around high voltages.Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 10:28:57 am1200V max seems a bit close to the metal if you know for a fact you're going to work with 1100V.(only 9% margin)

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 11:18:38 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 14, 2016, 09:36:49 amLets hope so, I would not want to test this myself!Quote from: Fungus on August 14, 2016, 09:36:49 amIts not i'm going to do this regularly, right now I have a single ended 845 triode amplifier that has a 3mV hum at the output and I want to track it down and hopefully solve it. (with the test equipmentI got now i'm stuck)The highest voltage I measured with my 1000v multimeter was 1080vdcwhen probing unknown voltages I will use my multimeter first and hopefully it will be fine with the 1200v probe.Most tube amplifiers I played with run at about 450/500vdc

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 11:35:45 am
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 11:18:38 amThe problem is that the DMM might not be showing a true reading. There might be tiny 2000V spikes that the DMM isn't seeing (youknowthe device under test is defective...)If you're looking at power supplies and amplifier outputs then another (much cheaper!) option is to build a big-ass 10x resistor divider and use it with your 10x probe.Use large, high power resistors (large ones are harder for sparks to jump across). Put multiple resistors in series in case one fails, etc. For $2.50 you can really go to town...

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 12:27:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 14, 2016, 11:35:45 amThank you for pointing this out, didn't think of this!Maybe I should look for a cheap high voltage probe and use this for unknown voltages.Making my own voltage divider is something to look into but need to work this out a bit more, putting a bunch of resistors in series with some caps in parallel can create a whole lot of side effects.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 01:11:45 pm
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 12:27:00 pmYou need to think about the overall impedance, yes.The lower, the better, obviously... small circuits would be tricky but I don't think a power supply or amplifier would object to (eg.) a 10k load across the output.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 02:55:27 pm
content: Found a reasonably priced probe from Testec which is 2500v/100x.Its German made, seems good.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 05:12:31 pm
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 10:28:57 amEither way a wider display will show more information whether it has 10, 12 or 14 divisions. The only difference is how the signal is being scaled horizontally.QuoteI'd be carefull and check whether the function generator costs extra on th R&S; it usually does and the options on the R&S scopes are expensive as well. The base unit is often cheap but with some extra options (function generator, logic inputs, protocol decoding) the price adds up quickly. If you want a simple but digitally controlled generator then the ones from Feeltech offer best value for your money by far.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 06:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 14, 2016, 05:12:31 pmHopefully R&S is not playing tricks here, if I read the datasheet well, these are the options clearly stated as optional:Bandwidth upgrades to 200 or 300MHz.Serial bus analysisLogic probeKey features which are not mentioned to be optional:Frequency analysis (FFT)VoltmeterFunction generatorPatern generator and ARB editorComponent testerFive-digit hardware frequency counterComprehensive math functionsMask testingI will ask R&S just to make sure there are no hidden costs on these key features.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 06:52:11 pm
content: Are you really sure 2 channels will be enough? 4 channels is way more versatile than 2.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 06:53:00 pm
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 06:05:16 pmTheir website only shows bandwidth upgrades and serial bus analysis as optional:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/hmo1202-options_63490-142720.htmlThe signal generator is limited to 50KHz. That's plenty for audio work but very limiting for people like Dave. I think that's the main reason they give it away for free.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 06:59:27 pm
content: I personally do not like shared vertical controls of HMO1202. Buy it if you need asmallscope. I find the front panel a bit confusing. HMO1202 probably has some good low-noise ADCs. This might be useful for audio work.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 07:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 14, 2016, 06:59:27 pmTheir marketing certainly claims "low noise".I don't know how it compares with other brands though.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:01:56 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 14, 2016, 10:46:43 amThey've gone one step further and not mentioned a measurement category:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_category"Robust" scopes like the new Tek TBS2000 have an input of 300V in CAT II and will safely withstand several thousand volts at the input, damage will occur somewhere between the maximum input and that point. Sometimes specified as maximum survivable or nondestructive voltage and not always available in data sheets but can be quite a bit higher than the maximum input range (which is typically the range over which the device reports accurate measurements).

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:10:03 am
content: Toploser is selling a HMO2022 very cheap. This might be a good deal? He is a trusted sellerhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-(uk)-hameg-rs-hmo2022-2-channel-200mhz-scope-mso-ready/

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 07:41:58 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 14, 2016, 06:59:27 pmI am new to using a digital scope so it may not be a big deal, I need to learn working with it anyway.Quote from: Someone on August 15, 2016, 12:01:56 amThe R&S datasheet does not state the safety category of the inputs or probe, the appliance itself is CAT II just like any other household appliance is.Quote from: trevwhite on August 15, 2016, 12:10:03 amLooks like a good deal, I wonder how this HMO2022 technically compares to the HMO1202?The HMO1202 is a much newer model and more (beginner) feature rich.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:01:58 am
content: Perhaps but the 200MHz HMO2022 not selling at less than half price for over a month should tell you something about these Hameg (R&S) scopes! Toploser is a well respected seller on this forum so that is definitely not the problem.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:38:20 am
content: It's a fine scope and I'd get it as a second one if it was easy to importFrom Dave's video there's not too much of a difference. New one has better fft and a function gen. You get used to the shared controls.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:42:02 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 15, 2016, 09:01:58 amThe HMO2022 is a model from about 2011, its a opened box so this could lower the price of this unit.But it do makes me wonder why it is not sold yet.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:43:35 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 15, 2016, 09:01:58 amMaybe you could spell it out to us instead of just insinuating...(!)

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:57:52 am
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 15, 2016, 07:41:58 amThis is the problem, you don't know what level of protection is provided for overvoltage or what amount of overvoltage may damage the scope. Stick to their 200V peak under all circumstances considering that what you are measuring will have spikes etc.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:31:10 am
content: Quote from: Someone on August 15, 2016, 12:01:56 amThere is not much to find about the Tek TBS2000, just watched some videos from Tek.Looks like its not as responsive as the R&S.

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:52:15 pm
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 14, 2016, 11:18:38 amMaybe differential probes would be a better option with that voltage?

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:58:22 pm
content: Quote from: Dwaine on August 15, 2016, 12:52:15 pmI know, but these prices.But breaking the oscilloscope is also something..

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:13:47 pm
content: Quote from: Osirison on August 15, 2016, 09:42:02 amI have some open box Keysight MSOX3054 scopes with probes and warranty that probably won't sell on here even if I listed them at 60% off list price. that's just the way it is, no reflection on the quality of the equipment, it's the buyers that are the troublesome part of the equation!Oh plus some open box Tek MDO3054 scopes with probes and warranty, I forgot about those for a minute.And those can easily be hacked for the extra features, not possible with the R&S scopes.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 05:04:20 pm
content: Quote from: TopLoser on August 15, 2016, 01:13:47 pmThese are very nice scopes, far out of my budgetI really wonder how the HMO2022 compares to the HMO1202.Responsiveness2000 vs. 10.000wfms/s64 vs 126ksample FFT points10 vs 16bit hires

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 09:20:04 am
content: I'm still undecided between RS 2000 series or a keysight 2000 series one. It has always been my dream to get one of these, but I got discouraged about price, so I got an HP 54600B fully calibrated and working perfectly fine.

author: Osirison
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:31:16 pm
content: Is it usual to pay list price on Rohde & Schwarz scopes?Contacted two retailers and both did not want me to give a discount.Also emailed R&S twice for a price quote but they do not respond, hopefully their service department is better than the sales department

author: mubes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:55:33 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 16, 2016, 09:20:04 amIf you're still in the market Pm Toplooser about those MSOX3054s he's got. It'll be a stretch, but that is a tool that will last you for a -very- long time.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 06:52:18 pm
content: Quote from: mubes on August 16, 2016, 02:55:33 pmOr pickup a used DSOX3014A from ebay and then enable all of the options. Still not in the cheap realm but it is a lot of scope for the money. Moving to a DSOX3000 from a DSOX2000 is a very nice upgrade if you can make it happen.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 05:36:56 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on August 16, 2016, 06:52:18 pmNot really, unless you manage to get one really cheap (which is rare). It's still a lot of money for a scope with paltry 4Mpts memory.As a hobbyist I'd rather get a GW Instek GDS-2000E than any of the generally overpriced Keysights (although you never know, maybe TopLoser makes an unbeatable offer). For less than a DSOX2000 you get 10Mpts of memory and 1Mpts for FFT in a scope that, based on the reports here, seems to be very mature (doesn't suffer from all the bugs you'll find with Rigol or Siglent) and should do all the OP needs.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:06:32 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 17, 2016, 05:36:56 amBut both the Keysights give you the very useful 'very low low cost' 'optional' AFG and 8/16 digital channels - that MSO connector is lurking ready to be used. Not avaiable on the GW. I also have MUCH more faith in the Keysight warranty. Stick with the Agilent unless you have a really good reason for needing something it doesn't offer. And yes I sell them really cheap - the last couple of 2000 series ones have been remarkable value really.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:10:28 am
content: Quote from: TopLoser on August 17, 2016, 08:06:32 amAlso true of the R&S 'scopes being discussed.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 09:48:55 am
content: Quote from: TopLoser on August 17, 2016, 08:06:32 amTrue, but unless that AFG is already enabled it's usually cheaper/more economical to buy a standalone generator which will offer better specs.MSO is nice if you need it which for the OP doesn't seem to be the case. Actually, I'd say the OP benefits much more from larger memory and better FFT.QuoteI agree, Keysight support is generally very good (although software updates often stop long before an instrument is out of mainstream support which isn't great, and that is even true for their high end gear).I have no personal experience with GW Instek support, but I know that years ago (early 2000's) they difficult. But what I've heard from some people using GWI gear is that they must have ramped up and improved support a lot since then. It's probably no Keysight but I'd guess they are much closer to Keysight than to Rigol or Siglent.QuoteI have absolutely no doubt you sell them at a great price, but you're pretty much the only one offering a really good price for that stuff to hobbyists (and that might very well tip of the scale towards the Keysight). Which of course is great, but on the other side, if for some reason you can't supply the scopes any more then the OP is unlikely to find it anywhere else for a similar price, even not on ebay.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 10:02:48 am
content: I have a fully-loaded (legit!) MSOX-2024 which I bought as a 'Certiprime' refurbished unit with up-to-date calibration and full 5 year warranty from Aspen Electronics, a Keysight distributor in the UK. It cost me about £2000, two and a half years ago. There are other bargains about for hobbyists, not just from TopLoser!

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:05:53 pm
content: Not 100% sure so maybe someone can confirm but wasn't the keysight msox2000 incapable of decoding on digital channels? Also for your average user the analog channel decode would probably be fine as it covers your standard serial buses and if I'm not mistaken the instek comes with decoding enabled? The mso on the hameg works nicely but not sure how important any of that is to the OP.More on topic, I'd rather get a cheaper scope + separate function gen(pretty cheap these days). Bottom line tho, I doubt you can make too much of a mistake, all of these seem more then adequate for the job.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on August 17, 2016, 08:05:53 pmThat's correct - effectively its acquisition system (apart from the ADCs) is 1/2 a MSOX3000 series, so it has less memory, lower acquisition rate, only 8 digital channels, and serial decoding only for the analogue channels. It's a much lower priced unit so it seems a reasonable trade-off to me. I have an Intronic LogicPort for more demanding measurements (not used it much so far, TBH)The built-in function generator is nothing special but it does allow very narrow, fast-edged pulses to be generated, unlike my 33120A ARB. The output common is tied to mains earth though (but it didn't cost me anything extra!)

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 06:16:12 pm
content: I don't approve oscilloscope-funcion gen combo... It's like having oranges and apples in the same basket... Once it breaks you have lost two instruments in one shot. Not to mention that how can you fully control the two whitout messing up with the interface?

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 07:17:20 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 18, 2016, 06:16:12 pmBut it's so convenient to be able to capture a scope signal with the built in AFG and then replay it at variable amplitude and frequency.And the interface is done almost transparently on the Tek and Keysight, doesn't intrude on the scope display at all.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 09:08:15 pm
content: Cool feature, but it wouldn't be of any use to me..What's the point into recording the signal to playback it via the generator?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 06:44:05 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 18, 2016, 09:08:15 pmIt can be useful for recording a 'real-life' signal with all interference and distortions and then take the recording back to the lab and play it back in an AWG to use it to check if the new piece of hardware you're developing will work with that real-life signal.However, you don't need a built-in AWG to do that. Every better modern DSO can save the waveform data in csv format, which then can be fed to a suitable AWG for playback.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 02:55:49 pm
content: I dont think the function generator is meant to compete with real ones.Sinefrequency range: 0.1 Hz to 50 kHzSquarefrequency range: 0.1 Hz to 50 kHz rise time: <4 µsRampfrequency range: 0,1 Hz bis 10 kHz duty cycle: 10% to 90%Pulsefrequency range: 0.1 Hz to 10 kHz

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 09:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 19, 2016, 06:44:05 amExactly what I thought...Actually that was exactly what I've tried to do, unfortunately my digitizing oscilloscope it's too old for that...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 09:38:54 pm
content: Then is must be very old. Even my Tektronix TDS500/700 series scopes could save to CSV (albeit doing it very sloooow).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 12:45:00 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 19, 2016, 09:12:40 pmWhat scope is that? It must be a really old boat anchor because the functionality to save waveform data has been in digital scopes since at least the early '90s.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 02:02:18 am
content: Some scopes had no USB and no floppy dics, like Tektronix TDS220. You had to use a RS-232 port on an extension module or so.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 10:47:58 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 20, 2016, 12:45:00 amit's a HP54600B 2 channel 100Mhz, got it with RS232 option...

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 11:26:53 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 20, 2016, 10:47:58 amI see. You're right, these scopes lack the capability to save waveform data to a storage medium as they don't have any removable storage. But you can get the waveform data over RS232, although it'll be slooooooow

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 01:21:49 pm
content: I don't even have a RS232 adapter. However, it's clear that I'll upgrade my scope at given time: I'm not in the market for now, but certainly I will sooner or later...

author: Isaac000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2016, 08:06:32 pm
content: There's more to a 'scope than just the paper specs. I've used a wide range of scopes from old Tek Type 536 right on up to the newest, most expensive stuff from the big guys. LeCroy, Rigol, Yokogawa and even recently got the R&S / Hameg 2xxx series.I would either pony up the extra $$$ for the R&S or just spring for a used Tek or Agilent/Keysight/HP scope. (I would say used Hameg as well, but the digital ones seem impossible to find). A good Tek TDS754D can be had for quite cheap. You can still get data off via the floppy :-)Yes, sure, maybe the Rigol does the same thing on paper, but it is quite frustrating to use compared to some of the nicer scopes. Definitely lacks polish and has the occasional odd behaviour / bug.I've dealt a lot with old HP test gear and in the field I play in, it was well known that when HP gives us a spec, they mean it will hit that spec in the middle of Antarctica, jumping out of a plane into a live volcano :-), so we have a lot of trust in their gear. Generally I don't have as much confidence in guys who run over-clocked ADC's so they can hit some magic datasheet number for specsmanship.The R&S is not perfect and I think an argument could be made for Keysight's DSO2xxx stuff, but it is not unreasonable. It's very compact, fast booting, very quiet and pleasant to use. The MSO option is not as good as Tek / Keysight in my opinion, but for a basic scope, I wouldn't mind plunking down my own money on the R&S.As others have mentioned, the other secondary capabilities are kind of not that important as you can usually pick up stand-alone gear that will get the job done better for not as much money.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2016, 10:48:06 am
content: Nah, used instruments are a good deal only if they are refurbished and calibrated, otherwise you need to calibrate them and most of the time is very difficult to do, and in most cases impossible to do if you don't have the right equipment (and knowledge)Anyway, if you don't want to do ultra sensitive measurements with them, they are a good deal, but keep in mind the results might not be correct, and forget about the spec sheet...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2016, 10:59:46 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on October 13, 2016, 10:48:06 amThat is total nonsense! A-brand equipment keeps it's calibration quite well and if there needs to be something adjusted regulary (like signal path compensation in an oscilloscope) then it has self-adjustment procedures and hardware built in.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2016, 10:29:58 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 20, 2016, 11:26:53 amOr just use the camera of your smartphone. It's the 21st century replacement of thesehttp://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/Tektronix/Tektronix_other/C-12.html;-)