Favorite Schematic / PCB software with LARGE database for components - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:39:41 am
content: Id like to Ask Dave & others on here what is your choice for PCB & schematic creation software. I have been using the "friend" copy of Eagle Cadsoft, but want to move to a "legit" software. Id like to be able to have access to large components such as SMD devices and transistors etc etc.Currently use a'lot of parts from Digikey Canada. I have tried a few today and got very frustrated !!

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 06:01:02 am
content: I've been using Diptrace for some time now. Free and easy to learn for 300 pins 2 layers. You can request a license key for the non-profit 500 pin 2 layer at no cost.It can also import Eagle schematics and PCBs.I especially like the 3D view of your PCBs to see what they look like before manufacture.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 06:54:52 am
content: Unfortunately, AFAIK, no software provides large, usable, good-quality library. You need to built every freaking component from scratch, a fact that often slowly sinks in as every beginner hopes to get libraries but get slowly disillusioned.Almost all software include stupidly composed libraries hard to browse, with an odd mixture of obsolete parts and total lack of important modern parts, and worse, parts done totally wrong. A LARGE library is probably worse than a small one.Even if the libraries were done in a sane manner (what they usually aren't), each user has their own needs.That's why one of the most important metrics is: it needs to be easy, quick and non-frustrating to create a part in your own library, including the footprint and schematic symbol.Try to forget the notion that the large built-in library is important. Even if they promise you a good library, most likely you get frustrated with it and need to build your own.For example, in Altium, one of my beginner mistakes was to download a large pack of libraries and install them.There is an extra reason for this, not related to PCB software itself: component footprints & pinouts are very poorly standardized and often misleading! Like it or not, you need to very carefully crawl through the datasheet, make extra sure you have the right part number: for example, instead of (imaginary) ASERHTIETJ728593513-3517, you are buying ASERHTIETB728593513-3517 (spot the difference), which has some pins swapped compared to the image on the first datasheet page. Then they claim it has some standard footprint XYZ-123, but it really is different to what other manufacturers call XYZ-123. Now, it takes about 10-15 minutes (with an easy, say 5-leg component!) of extreme concentration to verify, get the mental image what component you are using, what the pinout is, and how the footprint looks like. While you do this work, you usually simultaneously spot something super important about the usage of the component.With prebuilt libraries, if you trust the library, you get a lot of frustrating respins. Since it's a difficult task to get them right, they are not right, especially since someone who doesn't need the models directly made them, probably in a rush. So after a few disappointments, you stop trusting the library, and double check everything.Now guess what? If the PCB package has proper drawing tools and library UI, which is crucialanyway, the time it takes to actually built this component is a few minutes; negligible compared to the time you need to use to double-check the datasheetanyway.

author: Le_Bassiste
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:13:35 am
content: +1

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 01:28:28 pm
content: If you're comfortable with Eagle and you find it's advanced enough for what you need, why change? It's not that expensive of a tool and it's really easy to create components. With any ECAD package, you're going to need to create components yourself. I prefer this since it forces me to double check and be 100% confident that the part I intended to use is what was used.To help get you started, I would suggest leaning on SnapEDA. It's an online database that allows you to download components for a variety of tools.https://www.snapeda.com/NOTE:// For Eagle, I would suggest NOT following SnapEDA's import procedure. Eagle uses a really basic format for their component libraries. After downloading the components from SnapEDA, I would heavily suggest to open the files in a text editor and then copy and paste the data into the library that you intend to use. This will prevent the number of libraries to explode and you can curate them into logical groups.NOTE2:// Avoid being lazy with your component creation. I would highly recommend having an individual component in your library for any physical component you would buy. What I mean by this is to not use general components and then tack on a value of 100k or 10k. Have a separate component for everything. This allows you to easily attribute every component on your design and then be able to globally change sourcing information when needed. The attached screenshot is a good example. This has primary and secondary sourcing with all of the distributor and manufacturer information embedded in the component itself. This enables you can simply export the BOM and be done with it. There's no post-processing needed when making quotation packages are accurate and then with the added secondary (or even tertiary!) sourcing it'll enable you to focus on design and not managing a BOM when a basic component is out of stock that month.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:19:51 pm
content: Thanks guys for all the replysI love eagle, but like i mentioned I have the "friend" version and to buy the version that allows to build bigger boards than 160mm is kinda like 650$ cdn per year ! OUCH !I build amplifiers and power supply boards, and those components take up A CRAP load of real estate.Over the last few days i have tried. Quadcept, Pads Eagle & Multisim.I made a video of what i'm doing.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:39:56 pm
content: $650 isn't a lot when it comes to an ECAD package.Have you looked at Circuit Studio? It's more expensive up-front but the license is perpetual. It could also serve as a good stepping stone if you were to upgrade to Altium Designer in the future.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: Pack34 on October 08, 2017, 04:39:56 pmDo I have to be on line with that ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:58:27 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on October 08, 2017, 06:54:52 amI agree. Included libraries are often limited or wrong and won't contain all parts. The reality is that for every PCB I design I have to create at least one new footprint. All in all it is very important to choose a package in which it is easy to create new components and manage them. Unfortunately the latter is often overlooked because the creators don't understand that a component is more than just a symbol and a footprint. Both can be re-used for other components.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:09:32 pm
content: Quote from: dashpuppy on October 08, 2017, 04:52:52 pmNope.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:11:24 pm
content: Yes, I'm afraid part of the job is to have your own libraries and maintain them. Last job, I specified in my contract, that the IP for the component library is mine, and I'm just sharing that with my employer. It is essential, basically it can reduce the time it takes to make a PCB. And the difference between a professional and a graduate is: "woopsie, that is not the right footprint xxxx EUR wasted"

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:24:03 pm
content: Multisim / Ultiboard have an extensive library, including SPICE models. They are of more-or-less usable quality.Downside: it's not interoperable with anything, and rather quirky for large designs.Tim

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:29:22 pm
content: Well i tried Circuit Studio Eagle & Quadcept

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:37:00 pm
content: I never really had the "oopsie, wrong footprint / wrong pinout, respin time!" problem (well, it has happened to me once or twice, so on about 1% of my PCBs), but witnessed many people curse exactly that, again and again, in many instances, on many components.The difference was that I used an ancient, very incapable PCB package - CIRCAD'98 - even for complex designs. I liked the simplicity and the "just do it" attitude. Others I witnessed were using software like Eagle, Altium, KiCad, etc., with steep learning curve.The difference was, the CIRCAD package didn't have many library parts at all (and those few it had were rather usable!), so I needed to create them - and it was super-hyper-easy to add parts on the fly, faster than on any package I have seen after that. Other people were being lazy / not mastering their tool, and using the library parts from Eagle, Altium, KiCad etc., and expecting that things go magically right. We are taught so, after all - reuse is good, verified code (someone else made it at a company, so it must be perfect) is good, all kind of shit like this.Several times I heard: "building own parts is so difficult and slow" from the Eagle users.When I moved on to Altium, I already knew that the library components suck - it's nice when you don't need to repeateverypossible mistake yourself.But just to be sure, I have tried and verified my assumption using Altium: the library components really bite you each time you try to be "lazy" and use them.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 05:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on October 08, 2017, 05:37:00 pmI've found Eagle to be by far the simplest if you're willing to go into the libraries and edit them directly with a text editor. The text based commands also allow for simple automated footprint generation. I've built simple excel workbooks to automatically generate the text commands for these. Just enter the number of pins, pitch, and width. Then paste into the tool and you're done.With Altium I've found that if you spend the time and make all of the 3D models along with the footprints, then it'll ensure that everything will fit every time.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 06:10:38 pm
content: Quote from: Pack34 on October 08, 2017, 05:57:08 pmI've been using eagle since 2001, loved it. I find it easy. Probably because I am used to it now. I like that i can go from Schematic to PCB really easy, if i don;t like the pcb i can delete the file and start over etc etc.I hate that Eagle is 650$ yearlyIf it was 650 cdn to buy and not have to keep paying every year id be all over this...

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:09:38 pm
content: Quote from: dashpuppy on October 08, 2017, 06:10:38 pmWe use Cadsoft Eagle V7. Despite the limitations, I like it.What I don't like is Eagle V8. So, we keep on using V7 and waittill Autodesk pulls the plug from Eagle because they can't generate enough moneywith their new licensing model and their buggy releases.It could be very well that somewhere next year they'll sell Eagle.At least that's what I'm hoping for. If not, we will switch to something else.We are not in a hurry.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:13:52 pm
content: I agree, forget about the libraries that come with the software.Unfortunately it's a must to create your own libraries.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:14:11 pm
content: Quote from: Karel on October 08, 2017, 07:09:38 pmDo you know what you will go to ? the Circuit Studio looks interesting at 695$ ( USD) for a license and no yearly subscriptions.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:34:26 pm
content: If you are so limited on money, why not try KiCad, completely free? I don't like it at all; I have given it three chances and always ran away, but I know that many people do like it, it's a fairly capable package once you get over the learning curve (just like with any EDA monster), and IMO it's not worse than Eagle.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 08:57:18 pm
content: The one thing I wish Eagle did, or maybe it does and i haven't figured it out.When building a schematic with parts, i wish i could "PIN" the few components i'm using IE resistors.. I'm using smd resistors and they are all 1201 package type. Id like to pin it to the parts add feature so I can fund the common parts i use..Say caps and resistors and diodes, so it's easier to find and drop into the schematic.

author: Jidis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:33:21 pm
content: Quote from: dashpuppy on October 08, 2017, 04:19:51 pmI shared your board size issue as well. Don't know if they've changed anything, but it never made sense to me that the student/entry level versions allowed umpteen million pins on several layers as long as you could stay within about two square inches of space. Seems like those guys would be the least likely to be designing stuff that tight and complex.I second Siwastaja's recommendation. I was in the same boat as you and used Eagle (4.x) for ages and was really quick with what I needed in it before moving to Kicad. I just tried to pull up an old Eagle project looking for a footprint and realized I've almost completely forgotten how to get around in it. I think even the weird ones will grow on you eventually and they've all got their own weirdness.Good luck however you go!

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 11:22:57 pm
content: Quote from: Jidis on October 08, 2017, 10:33:21 pmWell right now i have 30 days to learn Circuit studio, then possibly play with Pads. BUT for now i'm going to finish my project in Eagle 7.x and learn the basics with the other's. I don't mind learning another piece of software but i refuse to pay yearly subscriptions.I just ditched Adobe Premiere because it was $30 a month, love the software just hate paying so much money every month. Now i have switched to Resolve, and probably end up purchasing it too!

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 01:06:22 am
content: I've tried a number of packages and keep going back to Kicad. Lots of components available. But, as others have indicated, it's safer to create your own. It's quick and easy. Once you create your own, you can trust it. The ones others have created are too often faulty and you have to carefully double check everything anyway. Just faster to make your own.

author: Fire Doger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 01:28:40 am
content: Making your own libraries has many benefits. First of all you always learn something more about your component. Also you improve your muscle memory on using the program like shortcuts. And finally on EDA like these you can include many information on mechanical layers and automate a documentation process threw them.You can download a big open source design from herewww.imx6rex.comand check out how nice all layers looks. (I think Altium has a free project viewer)I was trying to make my own libraries since my first steps with eagle, its not that hard. Now I have libs with just the footprints (and cool 3D) and copying them on new parts to save some time (without skipping check process). When component selection and placement is done I order a couple of pieces for the new parts. When pcb is done I make a paper model and stick them down. Its so simple! No re-spin, no extra cost.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 07:03:22 am
content: Don't waste time with PADS. It's a typical steep learning curve buggy EDA monster catastrophe -- like Altium -- just worse than Altium, even more expensive, with fewer people using it; and those designers who use it, often have the case of "my boss told me to". Company policy; Mentor had nice powerpoint presentations and gave free lunches to convince the middle management boss who's never done PCB design. Mentor is also attacking universities with PADS so that they can give the students the feeling like it's some kind of industry standard pro tool. Which is really isn't.With Altium, you'll have a professional love-hate relationship. Some people actuallychooseto use it.With PADS, you'll mostly have a professional hate relationship. You are told to use it.Neither is a top-notch highest-end pro tool, but definitely more capable than, for example, KiCad or Eagle.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 05:25:28 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on October 09, 2017, 07:03:22 amGood adviceI used to like Protel 99 ! lol but found it a PITA !Guess ill just keep using Eagle for now..

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 12:48:17 am
content: Quote from: Jidis on October 08, 2017, 10:33:21 pmI know a guy that uses the free version of Eagle to make large boards. He wrote a program to scale the libraries to 1/10th size. And another program to scale up the gerbers 10X. It seems like a error prone mind stressing thing to use, but some people are just cheap bastards and/or enjoy getting around artificial limits imposed on software.I use Eagle 6, but after they switched to that subscription / cloud based crap won't ever upgrade. A lot of stuff I do requires all development be done on air-gapped computers that are NEVER connected to a net. I predict a Kicad future for me.

author: FermiLab
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 12:28:45 pm
content: Maybe I don't understand your needs but I have used Easy EDA for some circuits and PCBs and it works really well. Components are crowd sourced so if someone else has laid out the part and made it public, you can use it. I have found all the parts I need in it and not had an issue.Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

author: eiaro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 12:09:58 pm
content: Must say I just love routing boards on KiCad. Been Eagle user all my life, and found the interactive router in KiCad... Amazing. No need for an autorouter.

author: jbb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 01:09:27 am
content: Summary so far:Built-in libraries may have errors, so you can't blindly trust them.All the EDA packages have pros and cons. It often seems like people just favour the one they use the most.(That being said, $650/year seems like a lot for Eagle, which has traditionally been pitched as a lower-cost tool (vs PADS, Altium, Mentor's whatever...)That being said, there are some non-negotiable features you need:Ability to make your own library parts.Ability to transfer design changes from schematic to PCB files.Ability to output Gerber files.For professional work, ability to save files locally (i.e. not on someone else's computer) to protect Intellectual Property.On Gerber files: they're terrible. Really, really terrible. But the industry is used to them, so they're the devil you know.

author: dashpuppy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 02:11:00 am
content: Quote from: texaspyro on October 10, 2017, 12:48:17 amI know a guy that's cheap tooI Personally like Eagle now that im comfortable with it. I can't stand that the fact the free version gives you such a small board. Why can't they make the board size 24x24" and the component / pad count. I was trying to make a CRC psu that uses no more than 15 parts but can't make a PCB layout because 2 caps from the project would eat the size of the board allowed.. So dumb !!Anyways I am using a friends version from long time ago to just learn with and do my projects.I bet Eagle would make millions if they lowered their prices and change a few things. Gain more chickens for less money than have a few chickens paying outrageous pricing..Anyways i thought i would share my crappy layout

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 08:59:29 am
content: As with post #2 in my opinion, DipTrace is the answer...* does not have a board area limitations (it has pin count and layer limitations)* has a massive component library if you choose to use it, personally I don't generally do so, but I do grab a component/footprint from it as a basis for my own if need be* has a very easy component and footprint design system, it's often quicker to make your own component than and find and check an existing one* can bring changes forward (sch -> pcb) and backward (pcb -> scb, although it's a while since I've done that, it may not be complete my memory is hazy)* can output Gerber and NC Drill files no problem, it's built right in* works locally, you can save, import and export as you desire* works on multiple platforms (via Wine, but anyway)* has a generous free version, and an even more generous ask-for-it non-commercial version* isn't that expensive if you need to go commercial* is highly intuitive to use (more so if you are not coming with pre-existing experience of course)