Soldering station dilemma: PACE (PRC-2000) vs some other (Metcal, JBC, Xytronic) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: amigo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2011, 04:33:43 pm
content: Hello everyone,Long time reader (viewer?) first time writer here. In any case let me get right down to the point, so please bare with me.I'm in a bit of a dilemma about getting a soldering station as I'm long over-due to upgrade from a cheapy temp. controlled soldering iron.Couple of days ago I picked up a used PACE PRC-2000 control unit on eBay (pretty cheap - no handpieces included). Everything was fine until I started looking at the handpieces and their individual costs.I guess I'm starting to cheap out, but I'm finding it more difficult to justify to myself a purchase of a handpiece that costs $300-400 (new one) while I paid much less for the control unit itself. After few of these handpieces (SX-90 desolder, PS-90 soldering iron, TJ-70 thermojet, TP-65 thermopick) it comes to over a $1,000. I looked for used ones on eBay, but most of the times prices on eBay are terrible, not much of a "deal" really.I'm thinking to myself that for over a $1,000 I can get a brand new Metcal MFR-DSI, or a JBC rework station, or even that multi-function Xytronic LF-853DTP. Granted these won't have all the features PACE does but they are a more contemporary design than the PACE one.What I like about the PACE PRC-2000 is that it's not too complicated internally, if it needs to be repaired; it comes with everything in one box which is a huge plus when you consider space (aren't we all struggling having enough space for our hobby?); plus it does not use the fancy curie point technology. Yes, call me old fashioned, but somehow I just don't fancy holding a 13MHz antenna in my hand for hours on. That ought to do something bad to your body on the long run.So, I turn to you all for your experience and advice, would you invest into PACE or would you go ahead with a cheaper, modern unit?Thank you for your replies.

author: tekfan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2011, 05:02:26 pm
content: That Pace looks awesome. My personal dream though is a JBC. Imagine picking up the handpiece and in less than 3 seconds warms up from room temperature to soldering temp.Curie point tips are non temperature controllable but don't drift in temperature. But the JBC don't implement curie point (just a temperature sensor). I would think curie point systems are less reliable because the power supply is constantly pumping out serious RF.I can't comment much more since I myself don't have a good temp controlled iron. I often spend my money on test equpiment than on soldering stations.I think anything you buy is far better what you currently have, so the choice is yours.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2011, 05:03:14 pm
content: I went through a similar decision process myself about a year ago and ended up with a Metcal MX-5000. This is, by far, the best soldering station I've ever owned or used and I consider the money well-spent.The tips are changeable in about two seconds, which makes it very easy to go from soldering a 0402 surface mount part to soldering a panel mount connector. They are somewhat more expensive than your run of the mill Weller or Hako tip, however.I work in Silicon Valley and at least 90% of the labs I've worked in or visited over the years are equipped with Metcal.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2011, 10:05:20 pm
content: Metcal is the King of irons.You can often get them cheap on Ebay. Any of STSS-002, MX-500 and MX-5000 (very new - unlikely to hit ebay soon) are what you want.Only difference between STSS and MX is latter has two outputs, although they are switched, not simultaneous, but handy for Metcal's awesome vacuum desoldering iron.Also check outThermaltronics, who are some ex-Metcal people taking advantage of a recently expired Metcal patent - tips are compatible with Metcal.

author: jmccain
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 12:07:48 am
content: The Pace PRC 2000 and MBT 250 equipment handpieces are interchangeable. I have a good quantity of NOS and gently used handpieces and tips. You are lucky to get the PRC 2000. I also have some of the specific handpiece tools for this unit.I am sure I have the standard soldering pencil w/stand,de-soldering pencil w/ stand, soldering hot tweezers w/stand and hot air pencil w/stand. If you are interested let me know.I will sell you all four handpieces with stands...tested for operation and include good working tips on all four units for $200.00 + shipping.I am looking for a used endoscope for an ERSASCOPE 3000 inspection system if anyone has one at a reasonable price.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 06:56:54 am
content: If you planing to use it for professional use get JBC!I have it for few years. There is no other station or brand that can compare to it, not even close.I used Metcal MX-500, its closest station in terms of performance that compare to JBC.I owned most of top of the line stations including Weller MT-1500, HAKKO, Pace, ERSA.Today we face lead free and multilayer boards where thermal recovery is the key, without instant thermal recovery some stuff is not even possible to solder or desolder..For example I have Pace HW50, once started its ready in like 6-8 second, its considered good. My JBC is ready in about 2 second. This 4 second difference makes BIG difference for multilayer, lead free boards!Get JBC and you will never have to think about soldering station again]

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 01:03:54 pm
content: JBC is the way to go. Temperature adjustable plus quick thermal recovery is the most important factor of all but JBC can lighten your wallet quickly if you make a living in developing countries. The thin wire means you can maneuver the iron easily and less fatigue for long work hours.I suggest Weller or Hakko next step down. I don't have experience with Pace. Don't get Xytronic because it belongs to the same pile of shit where Aoyue, Atten, Best, Circuit Specialist, Gordak, Madell, Huako, Kada, Komec, Lukey, Sparkfun, Sunkko and etc swarms.The reason for temperature adjustable iron is because sometimes you solder with wire, sometimes you just want to heat up some solder paste. They melt different temperature. Some flux oxidize at lower temperature so when you have an adjustable iron, you can set the right temperature when you work on different items.Have a look at Antex, they are made in England, they have distributor in USA. I love their micro irons albeit fix temperature, their temperature adjustable irons are larger.A few years ago I looked at Ersa, their soldering irons are top notch. I particularly like the0760CDit has temperature knob built into it's iron body makes it portable and onsite servicing. However I do not recommend any of the soldering station.Finally, although not well known but worth a mention, it's the world's first power switching soldering station bySolderiteat least its not a copy and clone. It's also resold byChipquick.

author: amigo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 05:04:38 pm
content: Thank you everyone for your replies!It seems the field is divided among Metcal and JBC and followed by Hakko, Weller. I have no experience with any, but at the first glance I like JBC better, yet Metcal comes close to JBC in this comparison I found on the Web:http://www.oemelectronics.se/upl/doc/performance_comparison_0909_1_.pdfFunny thing is that PACE (MBT/PRC) appears to be the dear of the US Military, used across the board on the land and the sea alike (not sure about the air), but searching other electronics boards, anyone who had served comes back and talks about using PACE while enlisted.Even though this is a hobby and I won't be doing any production work, from my past experience things happen and I always kick myself for not having something available, like a tool or a part. So, I tend to buy things I don't immediately need, as serendipity has it, I end up using it at some later point in time and it saves me loads of trouble (that's why I got this PACE PRC-2000 control unit).I foresee doing more SMT work and that's where I'd like to go forward with, as I'm tired of through-hole (it's the hole drilling of home made PCBs that drives me crazy) I definitely want to have solder/desolder ability, and the hot-air as well as vacuum.After looking at the prices, full JBC SMT rework station can come all the way up to $4,000 (with all the bells and whistles), and Metcal follows suit, too. I suppose I want too much, because I still need to buy a microscope, a new lab power supply, and a few odds and ends, and still turn up "cheap", LOL.I also sent jmccain a PM as well, so waiting to hear back, maybe that direction turns out more affordable after all.Any other comments, suggestions are quite welcome, please. I don't mean to close the conversation as I'm sure others face similar dilemmas.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 05:05:36 pm
content: Quote from: nukie on April 25, 2011, 01:03:54 pmAntex are cheap crap, always have been.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 06:45:17 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 25, 2011, 05:05:36 pmMy cheap crap 12/15W Antex is still going fine after 25 years, my 35W Antex is still going fine after nearly 20 years.*Shrug*

author: SnakeBite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 07:02:13 pm
content: i had the same problem - what soldering station to buy and i decided to buy Pace because i saw a lot of good comment about it and you can find it very cheap on ebay - i score the MBT 250 for 90$ shipped!! i manage also to buy the pace ps-70 soldering iron, the tt-65 hot tweezers and the sx-80 solder vacuum iron very cheap also -ps-70 - 35$tt-65 - 20$sx-80 - 85$one thing that you need on ebay ispatienceyou need to wait to the right bidding and bid.the mbt-250 has build in desoldering pump and also hot air pump built in and it's been one of the industry work-horse for more that 20 years. the metcal is also make great soldering stations but there most update station the mx-5000 has "ONLY" two channels to connect different irons which the pace have three and the mx-5000 has auto adjust temp control which is good for production but in the lab you need an option to change temp and i'm not sure but i don't think the metcal has built in pump.so if you bought the pace prc-2000 you need to wait for a good score on ebay.if you got more question please askIdo

author: amigo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2011, 08:44:56 pm
content: SnakeBite,Believe it or not, I got interested in PACE after seeing (jumbo) photos of your MBT-250.And, you are right. When I was looking for the PACE on eBay, what I thought a deal on, PCR-2000 came up and I took it. I don't have the unit in my possession yet but the seller promised it wouldn't be DOA.Otherwise, eBay is a lot of time hit and miss, with lots of misses here. Sellers most of the time expect to make a killing on some items that could be bought elsewhere cheaper (and new even) and I just don't understand that. They also love to take everything apart and sell it in pieces for more money than it's worth it. I suppose for as long as there's someone to bid for their price, they'll be able to sell it like that even for used and worn off items.

author: project
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2011, 11:42:25 am
content: never use a JBC. for what I have: pace is more industry use than personal, it's well made, but too expensive. metcal's tip is patent design, quick enough(2-3sec) for doing anything and small enough carry around, I left my MX5000 in the car for field repair. For bench use, i'd choose either hakko or chinese clone, a cheap ebay reworking station with hot air gun 852D+/SE is the way to go.not because they are economy enough for amature, the designer/copier understand what a small lab needs:1.temperature control(lead/lead free, diff board).2.quick enough for even pro use. we are not running product line, 10-15 seconds warm up are quite acceptable.3.for the thermal recovery, no magical word. output waltage and temperature control are most important, sensoring method are the next.diff to matcal special tips, 852D+SE is just regular thermal sensor design, but 50W tip are good enough for multi layer board(852+ only have 20W, little small for more than 4 layers boards).4.Integrated hot air gun. save me bench space. and can do basic hand BGA reball without complicate devices.5.cheap tips and accssories, I don't like some brand design special tips and ask 30 buck each and hard to obtain, 10 bucks you can buy 5-10 tips on ebay, and actually, they are long last tips too, with proper maintain, for past 2 years, I only destroy one fine tip.someone will say the quality is the concern, yeap, what u got is what u pay for. For around $100, it run for me about 2 years without problem, I'm more than happy for it.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2011, 04:28:03 pm
content: I bought an MBT350 about a year ago. It came with the SX-90 SODR-X-TRACTOR,TD-100 handpiece and mt-100 tweezers. What attracted me to this system was1/ Can be used with ALL pace handpieces.2/ Has air AND vacuum built in, no shop air required.3/ Has 3 independent channels. You can desolder a part and then put a new part in straight away without changing handpieces and waiting for the warmup.4/ Has a hot air pencil available.5/ The temperature is variable (very wide range).6/ Has a very compact footprint on my bench/shelf.7/ Has the element/heater in the bit very close to the tip. This combines METCAL type temperature regulation with the ability to change the temperature as required.I also use a METCAL MX-5000 at work. I like the metcal as it's very fast and ideal for getting work done quickly.I'd stick with the PACE unit as it's very flexible.David.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2011, 04:34:46 am
content: If you dont need quick recovery than its really hard to choose a brand.Most of better brands are making amazing stations, to bad we have only one life so we cant use all of themTomorrow I will post a picture of the iron from JBC, Metcal and Pace just to give you an idea of how they looks like ..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2011, 05:13:36 am
content: I wouldn't be spending that sort of my OWN money on a soldering system.Realistically, a $1000+ soldering system won't do any more than an $100 Hakko iron, unless you have some very specific rework needs, in which case you'd likely know that already.That Pace is an excellent system, no one would call you foolish if you wanted to spend money on it.Metcal, Pace, Hakko, Ersa are all well respected brands, can't go wrong with any. Never seen a JBC.Dave.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2011, 05:29:10 am
content: Quote from: Zad on April 25, 2011, 06:45:17 pmThe reason I recommend Antex is because I am impressed with it's heater which seems to last forever. I have the tiny C15, CS18 and XS25 12v. They are my portable irons when soldering station is too troublesome. I don't use these for long hours but they definitely can withstand thermal shock.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2011, 08:03:57 am
content: The only proper soldering stations I know are Weller, my own WECP20 and the (35 year old) WTCP we use at work and they are both great. What I like about Weller is that you can still get tips for 30+ year old stations.The newer designs also look quite good, if I were in the market for a new iron I'd probably pick the WD1000.

author: flano
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2011, 09:09:55 am
content: Dave,What did you think of the Hakko FX-888 you had for review?Thanks Mike

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2011, 07:53:55 pm
content: Here are Pace, JBC and Metcal irons.Keep in mind that JBC has extended tip installed, with regular its the same size as Metcal. I like more extended, it often help me to reach some hidden spots.When using irons JBC has the lowest handle temperature followed by Metcal. Also it uses very thin cable, as thin as computer mouse, its very flexible and that makes it feel better than others.