A beginners big ask - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 01:53:58 pm
content: Hello everyone,After watching the EEVBlog on YouTube for years, I began studying electronics at home ~6 months ago. I'm hooked on the topic and the mental challenges that it brings.As with a lot of people, money is scarce but I have managed to buy some educational books second hand and really enjoy some of the online resources I have found. The only equipment I have is a Xiole XL830L which is a cheap chinese multimeter I purchased a few years ago and have learnt enough to know not to use it anywhere near line voltage.Yesterday I watched EEVBlog #86 where Dave advocates beginners purchase an analog oscilloscope (I'll keep that in mind) but went on to say that sometimes people on the forums like the EEVBlog would give these oscilloscope to beginners in need.I'm in two minds about asking for cheap/free stuff and I'm definitely not asking anybody to give away an oscilloscope but maybe you have something lying around that you don't use anymore, isn't worth much and would benefit someone like me? The good news is that I can probably cover P&P to the UK or even pay for a few cheap items.Thanks for reading,Steven Ross

author: SNGLinks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:05:33 pm
content: Where in the UK are you?

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: SNGLinks on November 21, 2014, 02:05:33 pmI live in Glasgow altough I would be willing to travel short distances to collect via public transport. I should have put that information in the original post, sorry.

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on November 21, 2014, 02:15:19 pmYes! Dave said in that same video I referenced that if you couldn't get an analog oscilloscope for under 50AUD/28GBP you weren't trying hard enough. That doesn't seem to be the case over here in the UK.

author: SNGLinks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:24:43 pm
content: Guilty! Not only scopes but sig gens and spectrum analysers.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:29:45 pm
content: QuoteIf you are starting out, I would suggest that you don't need an oscilloscope, analog or otherwise.I would go with a cheap multi-meter, like those $5 ones, some parts, a breadboard, a solder, and some basic parts. I think you can get all of them within $20 delivered if you aren't too picky.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:35:11 pm
content: You could try ebay.de and look for some old 20MHz Hamegs around €40-50. They are quite reliable, got standard components and you'll find service manuals online.

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on November 21, 2014, 02:29:45 pmI've ordered a kit from DealExtreme that contains some of what you mentioned:http://eud.dx.com/product/workshop-component-basic-element-pack-set-kit-case-for-starter-beginner-multicolored-844193414#.VG9NJNbtlaYI already have a cheap multimeter and have been studying circuits from stuff people throw out.

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 02:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 21, 2014, 02:35:11 pmI'll keep a look out but I probably should prioritise purchasing other more basic stuff.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 03:38:08 pm
content: I found that with a scope too.People hang on to the forever, right up to the point when they realise it's in the way and will never be used.Then they give it away to the first person.As in, I did some electronic repairs for a friend who own a computer shop.One of the customers said to him, "Seeing as you do electronics, this might be handy" and donated Tek 475.Now I was never offered it, he wouldn't have been offered it except for the electronic repairs he started taking in, and it was me that needed it( and got it:D )A strange set of random events that could not have been predicted.Point being, get in the place, have a look and keep asking, at ham radio clubs, television repair shops, colleges, small electronics firms, (laterally: Bowls club!) etc.They have to be able to find you!

author: yrrapt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 05:30:27 pm
content: As you're in Glasgow you should check out the Maklab, they have some electronic kit which is free to use for members.www.maklab.co.ukIt's also worth signing up for the electron club mailing list. They have semi-regular meet ups for amateur radio, analogue synths and general open source hardware.www.electronclub.orgTom

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 05:33:55 pm
content: You can do an awful lot of electronics with just a multimeter and a few LEDs; I know, because I did it for 4 (arguably 8 ) years before I went to university.That included building sound-to-light disco displays (before they were called discos!), the first LED digital clock the neighbours had seen, and a computer based on TTL and an MC6800 with a whopping 128 bytes of RAM. (OK, I cheated a bit with the latter, using a scope to check the signal fidelity of the 6800's clock).But a scope is nice to have. You may be able to find local electronics clubs or radio ham clubs and use their equipment. I suspect the closest hackspace is in Edinburgh.Note that using minimal test equipment is a good discipline in itself - and can be an employable skill especially with Test & Measurement companies. Q: you are building the world's fastest oscilloscope or most precise voltmeter - how do you test it?Continue to have fun.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 05:39:35 pm
content: QuoteThat should keep you busy for quite some time.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 05:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: stevenross on November 21, 2014, 02:23:01 pmDave lives on the other side of the planet, and well meaning as he is, his experience of buying electronics hardware in Australia and the US (and ignoring shipping costs which can be more than the cost of the item) is entirely irrelevant to the UK market. If you play the 'just swap the currency symbol' game, you can score a scope for £50 if you keep your eyes open and get lucky.For the time being, though, keep on at it without one. You'll know when you need one.

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 06:06:49 pm
content: Thanks to everyone so far giving me advice, so many responses in such a little amount of time, fantastic.Just to make it clear, I haven't come here to get a cheap/free oscilloscope. It's just the example Dave gave in the video. From what a few people have said it looks like different market conditions for oscilloscopes makes what he said difficult to achieve in the UK.As someone else has also pointed out there is a far greater selection of things more useful to me other than an oscilloscope, although if I come across one in the future that is cheap enough I'll purchase it.Thanks again.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 06:47:58 pm
content: What's your age? I remember when I was 15-18 years old, I worked weekends to buy me an Atari 1040stfm, electronic components and a motorcycle.Maybe that's the way to go: Work 2 days and buy yourself a brand new Rigol 1052. It has all you need for the next 5 years.

author: janengelbrecht
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 06:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 21, 2014, 02:35:11 pmI tried for the fun of it: Insane prices on european ebay :http://www.ebay.de/itm/Good-Will-GW-GOS-622-Oszilloskop-Oscilloscope-20-MHz-0006-/180400105054?pt=Mess_Pr%C3%BCftechnik&hash=item2a00af265eWhats going on ?

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 06:53:32 pm
content: stevenross,PM sent.........Ian.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 09:24:18 pm
content: Quote from: janengelbrecht on November 21, 2014, 06:48:46 pmJust some commercial sellers trying to rip off buyersSimply ignore "buy it now" offers.

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 09:54:52 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 21, 2014, 06:47:58 pmI'm 25 and unfortunatly unemployed. That's the main reason I have been focusing on learning electronics recently. With so much time on my hands I don't want to sit about doing nothing whilst searching for work. May as well increase my knowledge.Out of interest, what motorcycle did you buy?

author: janengelbrecht
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 10:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 21, 2014, 09:24:18 pmOkayI´m used to US ebay.com and when i choose Buy Now i get quality and CHEAP chineese sellers....that means a great dealTHx

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2014, 12:24:53 am
content: Quote from: stevenross on November 21, 2014, 02:23:01 pmYou can prise my ancient 20MHz Kenwood oscilloscope that I haven't used in over a decade from my cold, dead, UK hands. (It's got a trigger fault and it took me 5 years to find a decent service manual and schematic - I have to fix it at some point, just for the joy of fixing stuff!). It also weighs too much to post anyway.

author: BTO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 02:49:34 pm
content: Hi MateI'm not sure if your exactly asking for a scope or any test equipment or any componentsbut, my first thought waswhy be shy , this is a community forum , if you want a free scope just askthe worst case is .. someones says NO.. so whatnow, as for mei would like to help you , and i may be able toi'm in sydney thoughi don't have a scope to give you , if i did, i wouldi pride myself on buying good equipment that i dont give away LOLbut, i still have a lot of stuff in the shed, test equipment and parts to play around withmainly computer componentsdon't know if that interests you or notoh, by the way2 words of advise1. Please Please do not buy a $5 multimeter they are dangerous, spend at least $50, for safety's sake min Cat 32. don't listen to people who are telling you to not get a scope, GO AND GET ONE Analog or digital, get one and start learningif you can get a DSO it's much betteruntil you do get one, download scope apps on your phone and play with themIT'S NOT exactly the same, but it gives you a feel for itlet me know if you want some of my old stuff and partsif you doyou can have most of it for freeyou pay the shipping though, whatever it is.. i don't knowif you like we can skype and i can show you some of the stuff that i have and you can decidewhatever you like mate,let me know

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 03:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on November 21, 2014, 02:29:45 pmAnd yet, having one helps a great deal with understanding what is going on.You might be able to make many circuits with care and calculations, but to trulygraspwhat is going on you'll want to observe things happening inside.Quote from: Yago on November 21, 2014, 03:38:08 pmHm, that might differ from place to place.Once i got a digital scope for good, my 70's vintage analog one went to the top shelf, and sat there ever since.I won't mind giving it away, but there never was an occasion (i'm nowhere near stevenross, unfortunately).

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 03:58:24 pm
content: Quote from: stevenross on November 21, 2014, 01:53:58 pmif you want ebay, then just search for 'oscilloscope' hit the advanced search, and check the 'collection in person' and 'within xx miles of your postcode' options and see what pops up. You can save this search so ebay will alert you when someone lists an item that matches that search

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 04:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on November 26, 2014, 03:36:37 pmOh, but totrulygrasp what's going on inside, you don't need any test equipment whatsoever! All you need is to understand the theory of how something works.I exaggerate, of course. But "practice without theory is blind fumbling, theory without practice is mental masturbation"The best result is if you can use a scope (oranyother test equipment) to consolidate your understanding of what theory says should be happening. And to spot the limitations of theory!

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 06:14:18 pm
content: A lot of talk here about oscilloscopes and unbelievably someone has offered me an oscilloscope to collect on Monday. On top of that someone else is sending me some really cool components in the post as well as a home built 0-30V 1A power supply. I don't know if they wanted me to mention their names in public as they both PM'd me, I shall find out.Great to read about the conflicting views on the necessity of an oscilloscope, needless to say that I feel a duty to put this opportunity given to me to good use.Regarding the talk about cheap multimeters, I already have a cheap chinese multimeter and have learnt not to use it for anything potentially dangerous. I'll keep a look out for any bargains of safer makes and models.Thanks,Steven

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 07:46:23 pm
content: Good luck with your foray into electronics.If you can show:you defined a project that, with your level of experience, stretched youyou completed ityou have a list of things that, with 20/20 hindsight, you would do better next timeyou understand the theory of how the circuits should work (as opposed to simplyblindlycopying something)you debugged the projectthat you did this for the pure pleasure of experimenting with electronicsthen it will be a very strong addition to your CV that you can talk about during an interview

author: stevenross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 12:23:04 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 26, 2014, 07:46:23 pmI've partially chosen to study electronics engineering to increase my job options so your advise will come in handy.Thanks,Steven

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 10:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: stevenross on November 21, 2014, 09:54:52 pmYou really want the complete list? :-) Best one was Yamaha YZ250

author: 22swg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2015, 10:21:08 am
content: You don't really need a scope to get started, a MM and some good basic tools , and good environment to work in , have you tried contacting local IT / electronic manufacturers / service providers, My old office had lots vintage test equipment being replaced regularly .