Amazon to block Aussies from their international sites from July 1st - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 03:01:01 am
content: http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-31/amazon-to-block-us-site-in-australia/9820224?pfmredir=sm

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 03:32:26 am
content: No surprise there.I can't see Amazon willing to go out of their way to collect the GST for the Australian government, so excluding those sales is the obvious choice.We'll just have to run with Amazon.au (bleahhhh)

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 04:53:50 am
content: Uh-oh. I've been buying low-cost Win7 s/w licenses from Amazon UK. Usually they are not available on Amazon US. No doubt Amazon UK will block Aussies too.QuoteAre these Liberal Party campaign donors that smart? Did they calculate that the likes of Amazon would simply block Australians, rather than continue to allow access and collect the GST? Clever move if they did.So now it's time to work out how to circumvent it. Hat tip to Harvey Norman and friends - sometimes it's useful to be reminded who your enemies are.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 05:38:15 am
content: Meh. It makes no difference to me. I'm used to certain items being unavailable in Australia (or are more expensive). I've been using the mail forwarding serviceShipitofor years. It costs me nothing to have a permanent US postal address for my items. Quite often even with the added shipping cost from the forwarder to Australia, some electronics are cheaper to purchase from the US than from Australia.Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying GST on things but I don't accept being told I cannot have something due to some stupid restriction, I simply find a way around the restriction.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 06:37:39 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 31, 2018, 05:38:15 amUnder the legislation, freight forwarders count as suppliers, and may have an obligation to collect GST. Since Shipito ships to Australia via TNT, AusPost, FedEx, etc., I expect Shipito to respond to the new legislation in some way. Simply classifying every item as a gift may not cut it (although it would be fantastic if it did).

author: DeanA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 07:34:42 am
content: Great, some things you just cannot buy in Australia and I've needed to buy it from Amazon.What if other online retailers do the same as Amazon? If Digikey does the same it could make putting that prototype assembly together a little difficult. At least with Mouser I could still order through X-on.I don't mind paying the GST and even paying a little extra to buy locally, but often it is just not available here or the local distributor wants to gouge me for twice the price.

author: fourtytwo42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 07:51:38 am
content: The Ausies don't know how lucky they areI have not touched Amazon for more than two years since they tried to rip me off with there gold service or whatever it was that debited my credit card monthly even though I didnt ask for it and refused to refund me! (I got the refund from my cc company). I wouldnt touch the sharks with a bargepole ever again and I dont miss them one bit

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 08:00:06 am
content: Really, I think this is the tip of the brewing bun fight, the Amazon move is posturing to push this into the open early(ish). China is going to be interesting too (eBay, Ali Express, Banggood, Gearbest et al)I think the federal government expected online foreign retailers to roll over and be compliant with the new legislation, not to remove services, we may see the Amazon action copied by other groups.Last orders, gentlemen please!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 08:00:28 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on May 31, 2018, 06:37:39 amYou will probably find they throw the onus back on the customer, we are the ones filling out the customs declaration and are responsible for making sure that it's accurate, same with any other carrier. Customs of course have the power to inspect packages. I honestly don't think much will change. The cost of screening, inspection and enforcement is astronomical in comparison with the amount of GST that would be recovered.Also, Shipito aren't the supplier of the goods inside the box, just the service responsible for delivering it to you. They will inevitably just forward the cost of GST (imposed by Aust. Post etc...) onto the customer, I'd be surprised if that isn't occurring already. Same as Australia Post, when you go to the post office to mail something, you aren't charged tax on whatever you're posting, just the service.Amazon can only do so much to block Australian customers from using their US (and other) sites. As far as my user account goes, Amazon thinks I'm in the United States, the only give away that I'm not is by looking at my IP address and that type of block is easily circumvented. It's a bit like Netflix's attempt to block us from watching content on US Netflix, we all saw how (un)successful that worked out to be.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 09:22:50 am
content: Just in case fellow aussies haven't been paying attention to many of their bill$, and just let the companies have convenient access to their accountswe are paying GSTPLUSStamp Duty, which would sound like a LOT of unpaid homework to the Amazon mob to keep up with,plus any unforeseen legal BS lurking somewhere that some smartass will dredge up so they can keep their job and or score pointsHopefully we won't get blocked from viewing Amazon product details and buyer comments, those are very handy

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 11:08:49 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 31, 2018, 09:22:50 amThe only way they could do that is with an IP geo-block ... and that is insanely easy to bypass.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 03:54:00 pm
content: My predictions:1. Some Harvey Norman stores will spontaneously burn down. (You don't suppose that's the aim? Insurance fraud prior to going out of business?)2. Smuggling will be the new thing.3. Surprisingly large electoral backlash. Or not... I invariably fail to sufficiently estimate the stupidity of Oz voters, and the ability of both parties to have identical policies regarding something no one wants.4. A lot more Aussies using VPNs than previously.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 05:28:44 pm
content: As an expat that moved to the US in '85 I've seen many changes in the US for the worse, but it just takes chatting with a mate back there about the insanity of what continues to go on to make me happy my working career has been here in the US and not oz.Good luck getting the oz government to do what is right to help the people versus finding new ways to add fees and/or taxes on top of already high rates.When I left oz it was essentially a primary producer and that appears to continue with the mining pillaging that was/is going on in the WA bush (invisible to the average city dweller). There's only so many rocks or oil or gas that can be extracted and shipped (while competing with 3rd world countries). So why not hit up poor average joe for his overseas purchases since it must piss off the oz government to see something moving by that they haven't taxed several timescheers,george.

author: Nauris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 07:55:12 pm
content: Quote from: DeanA on May 31, 2018, 07:34:42 amI suppose Digikey and such just let UPS and DHL etc. handle it anyway so I doubt it is much of a problem for them.At least here it works that way and works very well. First you get your parcel, next week you get invoice from UPS for the VAT owed, no handling fee. And no I am not business customer nor have any account with UPS.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 11:25:11 pm
content: Quote from: Nauris on May 31, 2018, 07:55:12 pmUPS/Fedex would put up a huge fight here or I suspect anywhere if they were asked to do this without a cut (currently $15+). Costs them time and money to process the payments.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 12:49:12 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 31, 2018, 08:00:28 amOn the first point, it doesn't matter if Shipito is not the de facto supplier. The legislation treats it as such (de jure). Here is the ATO weighing in:https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-legislation/In-detail/Indirect-taxes/GST/GST-on-low-value-imported-goods/QuoteShipito = "re-deliverer", therefore Shipito = "supplier". Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Welcome to politics.On the second point, you can use a VPN to connect to Amazon US, but if your credit card or paypal accounts are linked to Australia, you may not be able to buy anything. Dicks Sporting Goods (US) started blocking Australian orders earlier this year using financial information. To get around it, you'll need a debit or credit card from a non-Australian bank or institution.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 03:29:32 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 01, 2018, 12:49:12 amSure, that's ATO's take on it, but I can't see it working. How can they tell what has had GST paid on it or not? As I said, the cost of screening and enforcement is going to be far more expensive.Quote from: thermistor-guy on June 01, 2018, 12:49:12 amYou may be right, I guess time will tell. I can see a business opportunity opening up here.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 04:18:06 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 01, 2018, 03:29:32 amI will be looking for one. If all else fails, I can imagine travelling to Singapore, or similar, and opening a bank account there (maybe denominated in US dollars), just to get a non-Australian credit card.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:09:46 am
content: Quote from: fourtytwo42 on May 31, 2018, 07:51:38 amThat's strange, Amazon touts themselves as being customer-obsessed, and my own experience with their customer service has been exemplary. Not saying they didn't screw you over but it seems odd you had so much trouble.

author: Harb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 09:56:33 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 31, 2018, 05:38:15 amHow do you find the service there, and what sort of shipping options do they give you.......I get near everything from the US....test gear parts etc etc and used to bring stuff in containers, but looking for a smaller single item at a time option.....

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 12:11:41 pm
content: Quote from: Harb on June 01, 2018, 09:56:33 amI can't fault their service. As soon as something arrives I get an e-mail along with photos of the box.You usually get at least 5 or 6 shipping options. I actually have a book arriving from the US via Shipito soon (yes, the Amazon seller wouldn't post a book to Australia), so once it hits my US address, I'll link in the cost of the various shipping methods in this thread (give it a couple of days).I've used Shipito several times and every time has been perfect. A few times it hasn't cost me any extra as some places offer free shipping to US addresses, you just pay the difference from your Shipito address -> Your country.It costs nothing to maintain (I don't have large volumes going through it).

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2018, 05:03:26 am
content: I too find Shipito excellent in every way. Halcyon forgot to mention a few things about shipito:* You can set your preferences for them to open parcels when they arrive, and send you photos of the contents. Not just of the outside of the box. I always do this, especially when I know I'm going to leave an item sitting at their warehouse for a while. So far their unpacking and repacking never damaged anything of mine.* You can combine multiple parcels into one box. With options like size of box, whether they repack, or just put the original parcels in the bigger box. This can save a lot on international carrier fees. Plus you can add special instructions on how to pack, materials to use, etc. Fees are reasonable. You create a combined customs declaration, of line items and values.(Man, this is really going to get screwed up by the Oz govt duties insanity.)* If you send a lot of stuff through shipito, you get discounts. Which are worthwhile.* They have an 'assisted purchase' service, where they buy stuff on your behalf, where the seller would normally refuse to sell to 'them durned furriners.' I've never used this, so don't know how well it works.* The shipping quotes they get from the carriers, are a lot lower than they would be for individual parcels being sent from an ebay seller. Due to shipito's huge volume. So in most cases, the total cost of mailing inside the US, plus shipto's fee, plus international carrier charge, is LOWER than if the original seller had sent it direct to Oz via one of the carriers.That was particularly obvious while TNT was its original self. Their quotes were always way below others like Fedax, and their delivery was far faster too. They routinely moved large parcels from Shipito's LA warehouse to my doorstep, in less than 48 hours. For cheaper than any other carrier at any speed, and with parcels handled carefully.I don't know how they did it, but the parcels never seemed to spend time stuck in a Customs inspection stage. Practically landed in the country, then within hours onto a truck for delivery.Then Fedex bought out TNT. Presumably to kill a great example of how to be vastly better in every way than Fedex. For a while TNT didn't even exist. Now they are back in name at least, but I don't yet have any experience with their service and fees.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2018, 05:33:40 am
content: I've been with shipito for many years. Way back when Digikey and Mouser were total a$$wipes about sending anything to oz.The final straw was when Digikey split up a 12 item order into 4-5 parts, wouldn't hold until all in stock, then charged $60-120 for EACH delivery !All for crappy ICs / connectors etc, in huge empty boxes. With shipito, it was free or $5 delivery !! I wonder what shipito will do with the new rules?

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 12:31:30 am
content: Quote from: digsys on June 04, 2018, 05:33:40 amYes, I'm waiting on this too.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2018, 03:32:12 am
content: Attached as some examples of what you see when Shipito receives a package for you (I've blurred out my personal information).You get an e-mail notifying you that a package has arrive, from there, you login to the web interface where you can see 3 photos of the package (included for free with your account). You also complete the customs declaration online.I've included a screen shot of the various payment options I got for this package, in this case it was a book being shipped from my Shipito box in California USA to my PO Box in Sydney, Australia. As someone has already mentioned, Shipito does deals with some carriers so you might get a pretty good deal. Basically you just select the option that suits you.There are a bunch of extra services too which you can select from like additional photos, removal of invoices etc...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 02:17:53 am
content: Since it's after 01/07/2018, I thought I'd post an update.As we already figured would happen,Shipitois now complying with the AustralianTreasury Laws Amendment (GST Low Value goods) Act 2017.GST applies to thevalueof the item (presumably this will be derived from the customs deceleration the recipient fills out) as well as the shipping and insurance costs.I successfully ordered an item from Amazon (US) dispite being in Australia. It doesn't look like Amazon (at this stage) is forcing users to their .com.au domain, but if you select an Australian shipping address, it tells you the item is not available for shipping to that destination.If you provide Shipito with an ABN, you are not required to pay GST. I guess at the end of the day, what's stopping anyone from just quoting any ABN of any random business on their Shipito profile to avoid paying tax?

author: knapik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 03:39:43 am
content: By the way, is there any information about whether this also affects amazon japan? I have bought quite a bit of music from there, and I wouldn't like to know that I won't be able to do so anymore in the future.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 04:37:07 am
content: Anybody able to report what Aliexpress is doing?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 04:39:40 am
content: Should have googled it first...https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/388029looks like they are adding your 10% GST at checkout.