Any benchtop mat that STAYS FLAT with use? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 11:06:50 pm
content: My main work area is a 36" x 96" butcher-block top workbench. I love it... but a wood top wouldn't hold up well over time. So I bought some Sierra FT series ESD matting from All Spec.It sucks. It stayed flat only for a matter of weeks, and now it's got giant bubbles in it that are so bad my keyboard won't sit flat. I've heard that it's caused by heating/cooling of the matting. Well, I use a hot air station, a soldering station and I microwave my lunch every day and put it on my desk while I eat and so-on. I even have a big slab of aluminum plate I put down before I do any hot air work or soldering work, I don't do it right on the matting, but still, it's all bubbled and deformed.Is there any matting that is immune to heat? Frankly, I don't care about the ESD safe nature of it. I just want something protective. My previous desk was glass which was good. I have another of these butcher block workbenches that I put a 1/4" thick polyethylene sheet over and it's great. Any other ideas? I would ideally like something thin, soft, light in color, that will take the abuse of daily work and keep the bench top nice, and that will stay flat. Maybe a silcone baking sheet? Or just buy a roll of silicone sheet? Or something else?

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 11:09:33 pm
content: Double sided stick tape is your friend.A friend gave me a 3M static dissipating mat and I hold it down with a few well placed peaces of two sided tape.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 11:26:02 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on April 02, 2016, 11:09:33 pmThat or some spray on adhesive.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 11:45:14 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on April 02, 2016, 11:09:33 pmI've heard (and observed, I think?) that the issue is the rubber matting expands with heat, and it never contracts the same amount - so that material has to go somewhere and turns into a bubble. I'm not experiencing small deformations - but I have a giant area about 20cm across that sticks up 2-3cm off the table. Then the edge of the mat is rippled - it undulates by maybe 2cm up and 2cm down.It's way too warped for tape to be effective, I'm afraid. And I already try to avoid too much direct heat, and don't want to try to modify my habits further, so it seems like a different kind of material would be better.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 02:54:10 am
content: I have never heard of this. Seems like everyplace I have worked, we used 3M. The first mat I bought for home was from 3M. Brown over gold. I just replaced it a few weeks ago with another 3M which is much thinner. Staying flat. Strange..

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 03:23:33 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on April 02, 2016, 11:45:14 pmIs your mat being subjected to a lot of heat; say from a hot air wand?If so I would find a way to shield the mat from that heat.These mats; at least the good ones are very heat resistant.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 04:11:49 am
content: FWIW, I've not experienced this with the heavy duty Scientific America matting I got from the Canadian eBay seller,canvu0_0(0.080" thick), or the thinner Sierra mat from All-Spec (0.060' thick; seems they don't even carry this thickness anymore). If it matters to anyone, Scientific America mat is made in Canada, while the Sierra is made in China.I've not had problems with either mat, but I've only used the thinner Sierra mat as a protective surface for tearing items apart for repair, so no heat exposure at all. All the soldering/desolder work is then carried out on the thicker matting.Wish you had better luck with the thicker 0.080" FT series. But I'd recommend trying a spray-on adhesive between the mat and say a thin bit of wood, such as a door skin to reduce costs (specifically3M Hi-Tack 76or3M Heavy Duty 20; good for <230F and = 210F heat resistance respectively). Please note I'm partial to covering entire table surfaces whenever possible, which isn't inexpensive.Worst case, if it doesn't turn out well, you've not permanently bonded anything to your table surface and shouldn't be out a lot of cash (particularly for the HD #20 & a door skin, which should come to ~$20).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 07:31:45 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on April 02, 2016, 11:45:14 pmIt's still fine, an adhesive tape will help with it (before it becomes worse). Just get some good one, as some crappy tape will unstick after some time. The worst thing is that mat will start to disintegrate with the time it the places where bulges happen if you do not attach it to the desk.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 04:26:01 pm
content: I was going to purchase a Sierra mat since it was a bit cheaper than the SCS mat (3M) Maybe I should go for the SCS mat?http://www.all-spec.com/products/Flooring_and_Matting%7CESD-Safe_Benchtop_Matting%7CMAT-00/FTW110DB.html

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 06:54:47 pm
content: I've never had any issues with my All-Spec Sierra mats staying flat. I have 2 of them on different benches. Perhaps it's a issue of temp and humidity?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 08:25:26 pm
content: I also have a butcher block bench with a McMaster Carr ESD matte on it. It's a few years old now and has been subjected to rather rotten treatment - still flat. The solder balls, and other hazards have not messed it up yet. I have a spare, but it looks like I have many more years on the current one.Not sure who makes it.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 09:29:54 pm
content: I use a large bamboo cutting board on top of my plastic work bench. So far nothing has damaged the cutting board (I do not cut on it) but have had burning objects on it (accidentally).

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 09:51:49 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 03, 2016, 02:54:10 amMaybe I have a crappy quality mat, then. I have this one:http://www.all-spec.com/products/ftw160g.htmlI noticed in Dave's videos and on some other electronics channels I watch that nobody else seems to have this issue.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 09:57:47 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on April 03, 2016, 03:23:33 amI do use an air wand but I have a 7" x 12" x 1/2" thick (18 x 30 x 1 cm) plate of aluminum I put down first. My wand use is pretty much just rework or chip replacement on small boards and, having such a high heat capacity, the aluminum plate never goes beyond lukewarm to the touch. The only other heat is a plastic tub containing my lunch that comes from the microwave... but it's not even too hot to hold in my hand, so I'd be surprised if that's causing the issue. I'm at my desk now, I will post a pic.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 10:08:19 pm
content: I have similar problems with my mat but not as severe. I got it for free and it doesn't have any manufacturer's markings, but know where it came from, I'm pretty sure it is a decent brand. My bench is a cheap folding leg type table from Office depot and I peeled the fake woodgrain off the top years ago, so when the mat wants to bow up, I just stick it back down with a few shots of Krylon clear spray paint. I usually give it overnight to dry with a few books to weight it down.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 10:12:23 pm
content: This is my matting.What prompted me to post this is firstly that it's been an ongoing annoyance, but I was watching the iPad Rehab channel and the lady was using a heat gun on a board just inches from her desktop which was covered by a blue ESD mat. I presume she does this regularly and her mat is perfectly flat. On the other hand, here I am going to lengths to avoid heat on the mat and mine looks like ass.The other thing I wonder is that my monitors are to the left and my desk is a few inches higher than a standard desk, because I am quite tall and it saves me hunching over so much to look in the microscope or probing boards. But that height makes it easy to rest my whole right arm from my bicep to my wrist on the desk while using my mouse or typing. Maybe a year of heavy computer use and moving my arm about has pulled and stretched the rubber mat causing it to warp?I see folks saying to tape it down... I'm just hesitant to do that because there's already rubber residue on the wood desk top from abrasion, and I think if I glue it down, then if I ever go to remove it, there will be chunks of rubber everywhere.I'm tempted to get a thin piece of tempered glass cut and just finish the desktop nicely (sand/varnish) and put the glass down. My previous desk was glass and it was absolutely awesome in terms of holding up to solder blobs and flux residue. Scrape it down with a razorblade, some glass cleaner and it looked good as new. Or some other material - thin plastic, perhaps.Or another ESD mat if the one I got is just crap quality and most of them don't do this.Thanks for replies, everyone.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 10:18:52 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on April 03, 2016, 06:54:47 pmWhat sort of use do your mats see? Is it just an occasionally used work surface, or do they see daily use? Do you do hot air or soldering on them?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 10:36:19 pm
content: I'm pretty sure my problems were all due to the mat getting pushed around and stretched out by pressure from my arms resting on it because I don't use any kind of heat guns at that bench. Your mat is deformed much worse than mine, but it appears to be a lot thinner also. If worried about damage to the desk top, maybe put glass or a thin metal sheet under the mat and glue it to that.

author: _Andrew_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 10:42:15 pm
content: I have been using RS components own brand three layer mats for years and have found they hold up to a lot of abuse and once they settle to the serface they stay flat. Not cheep though.http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/esd-safe-mats/7872118/

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 11:01:13 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on April 03, 2016, 10:18:52 pmOn one bench the mat sees almost daily use though not soldering every time. The mat on the other bench sees some soldering and is used more sporadically. Both only see hot air occasionally.FWIW my Sierra mats are the blue variety FT series.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 12:07:17 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on April 03, 2016, 10:18:52 pmI know this ^ wasn't directed at me, but the mat I got from the eBay sellercanv0_0has held up to both molten solder and hot air. It's the same thickness as what you linked (0.080"), and although I don't solder daily, it tends to be a marathon when I do (component purchases + I enjoy it).No glue or double sided tape required, and I've had it for ~6 yrs.Given your photos, it makes me think you got a bad mat (poor QC ?).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 12:07:50 am
content: Quote from: rdl on April 03, 2016, 10:36:19 pmExactly, I noticed this a long time ago. Even high quality rubber mats will eventually become like this in the work area.If the mat is new and not fucked up yet, attaching only the edge on the side where you are sitting is completely sufficient to prevent this kind of crap.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 03:00:59 am
content: My expensive blue dissipative front/black conductive back rubber mat (I forget if it was made by Desco or SCS) has no trouble lying flat. Was a little wary of spending so much at first on it, but I've had no regrets.

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 08:59:36 am
content: Its quite simple. Quality mats lay flat and stay flat, like 3m etc. if your cheap garbage conforms to your bench top, then consider yourself luckyThe cheap chinese knockoff materials, are not worth it. Save your money. It does not matter what you do to it......the lower quality matting is easy to spot.Same goes for most other things in life.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2016, 06:13:39 pm
content: What about 3-layer vs 2 layer ESD matting? Is one better than the other?I was looking at a 3 layer SCS mat that looked good, the same size 2-layer one was a little more expensive for whatever reason.http://www.all-spec.com/products/scs/Flooring_and_Matting%7CESD-Safe_Benchtop_Matting%7CMAT-01/430-101.html

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2016, 06:39:53 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on April 03, 2016, 10:12:23 pmWow those look like total shit.I didn't buy any terribly expensive mats but they all lay perfectly flat. I have 5x 24" x 60" mats, none where more than ~$100 a pop. I abuse the living crap out of them and have so for some time now. The only thing I have seen bubble them up is leaving a running hot air gun on them for more than 5min or so. Once they cool back off and stop smoking...they might be discolored a bit but lay perfectly flat. I even spilled a few ounces of molten AL on one and outside of blackening them, they are perfectly usable....and flat.I have two different colors but they are both pretty much bomb proof.I like this set the best and it was from fleebay. I can tell you they hold up pretty dam well to all of the above...

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2016, 07:20:22 pm
content: Good to hear positive experience with those - I have one in my watch list for as soon as I get my bench built (finally started last weekend). I saw that seller recommended in another thread here as well.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2016, 07:39:53 pm
content: I bought a mat from "canvu0_0" as well and am pleased with it. I have the 2 layer rubber in grey.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2016, 11:46:26 pm
content: Quote from: ECEdesign on April 05, 2016, 06:13:39 pmThe 3rd layer is vinyl for additional cushioning is all.Regarding price, the linked mat is on a bit of a sale (regular price = $79.17). You may not like writing on it as well as the 2 layer matting though (personal preference thing, just like textured vs. smooth).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:48:46 am
content: QuoteEnd grain butcher block.... will NOT hold up well over time? Refrain from shooting hot air directly onto the surface and oil it every now and then, and it should outlive your children!My bench is a very thinly veneered and NOT end grain plywood, and it's glorious. I have to admit, my first one didn't hold up so well... I had to learn that hot air thing and the maintenance oiling the hard way. And I keep a butcher block on the bench to take abuse and still remain reference flat. A butcher block is pretty hard to beat at taking a beating and staying flat.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 07, 2016, 01:44:22 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on April 06, 2016, 01:48:46 amWell, it's not that I think it will break or anything, but it will get stained and grimy and the occasional solder blob and specks of flux and pins of boards under test would take it's toll. I just wanted the durability and heft of a giant wood top, and then something replaceable on top to take the daily abuse.Might try that eBay one.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2016, 07:59:31 pm
content: QuoteIf you have an end-grain surface finished with a polymerizing oil (linseed/flaxseed or tung oil), the only concern on the list that might be significantly problematic is staining from a dark, solvent/oil-based pigment.I use my little bench cutting block to mix epoxy. When done, I scrape it clean with a chisel and wipe with alcohol. I use solvents directly on it. I of course also use it for cutting things, layouts, tape, whatnot. I used to keep a small piece of tempered glass for doing things like this, but end-grain wood is easier on the tools and works just as well.End grain wood is a great, durable, ESD-safe surface for an electronics bench, IMO.Also, spilled rosin flux is pretty decent wood treatment, itself.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 10:37:48 pm
content: So I just got one of the mats off eBay, and like it, but it is a bit wavy. Guessing I just need to give it time, but I'm curious if throwing some type of "lube" (talc) on the table top might get it to flatten out better...

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 11:24:58 am
content: If its the same ones I got, just give it a day or two. Being tightly coiled up and shipping from the far corners of the world, it takes a bit to lay nice.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 11:42:58 am
content: Did you reverse roll it to about double the original diameter and leave it a day or so to take out the 'set' it took during shipping?If you do decide to try Talc, unperfumed would be safer. However there's no substitute for weighting it down evenly and leaving it a week.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 02:41:28 pm
content: Haven't tried either of those. I'll try reversing the roll, since it's been a few days, and it's still oddly wavy on the front edge.

author: BU508A
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 05:51:49 pm
content: I have one of these on my bench and I am totally satisfied with it:http://www.pkelektronik.com/esd-vollgummi-gittermatte-610-370-20-mm.htmlAnd yes, it stays flat. :-)

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 02:42:52 am
content: uhh... I guess it would keep screws from rolling off the bench. =P

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 03:43:41 am
content: i've had no problems with my Sierra mats from All-Spec staying flat. However i think Corporate666 has had problems with his. Perhaps there is variations among manufacturing runs?

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 08:46:10 am
content: Interesting. I've never heard of this being a problem, but the mat in those pictures looks like total crap.I've used quite a lot of different brands on benches and never had an issue. The one on my bench for YouTube is just "RS Pro" stuff from rswww.com

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 10:09:57 am
content: Quote from: staze on May 18, 2016, 02:42:52 amIt also keeps the equipment you're working on from scratches, because every screw etc. will roll down in the holes. It's also VERY heavy (>4kg).

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 06:57:03 pm
content: I got a SCS mat and it lays flat right out of the box. No worries O0

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 07:13:46 pm
content: Simple cure if it will not lay flat is either a nail gun or some upholstery tacks, and stretch it a little on the surface.