Anyone noticed that Rohde & Schwarz is blocking firmware informations / updates? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: RK_aus_S
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 12:44:43 pm
content: HiIt seems that Rohde&Schwarz has changed its website / policy so thatprivate or end customers can no longer find firmware update information for any devices, let alone download firmware updates.Or can anyone as a private or end customer (in other countries) still access Rohde & Schwarz firmware updates and information?My request to Rohde&Schwarz was rejected because I was, literally "...not a corporate customer".I could imagine that some people here might be interested. Of course, I cannot say whether this is a misunderstanding or whether this change is permanent.RegardsRoman

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 01:28:51 pm
content: There is an issue they are aware of that is causing problems with registrations, probably needing to be manually reviewed and approved.I am not sure if there is (or ever will be) a resolution for private customers. I suggest you will need to go back to the seller that you it purchased through who should be able to assist.Also see discussion athttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/newly-released-entry-level-rs-nge100-power-supply-series/msg5697807/#msg5697807https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg5700717/#msg5700717

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 02:28:31 pm
content: Ewwwwwwww, grossNot only are they requiring an account, you have to argue with someone who tries to tell you that your @company.com email isn't a corporate email... and then you apparently have to ask separate permission to download firmware

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 02:35:54 pm
content: Ugh, shame to see them go down the KS route, if there's no solution for private customers then I guess I'll be putting R&S on the "avoid if possible" list for the labs I choose gear for (my hobby setup, and the labs at work).

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 02:44:38 pm
content: trust me ks is no better with any corp account . it just does not care. or want to learn problems from the little guys to help the big guys. if you sell hardware every customer is a possible source of useful information. its like deciding to stop reading as a human being.If your TM manufacturer locked itself into some tiny more profitable market, expect them to be useless because they have zero skill trouble shooting anything but some initial 'hot' deal they sleezed with someone. it's just a fact of technology. kind of like the king not knowing how to make toast bread because its for the underclasses.

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 02:46:03 pm
content: Still no answer from R&S to my inquiry.As I wrotein the other thread, I was able to register with my private email address, but now it is complaining that my email address is not a company address when I log in, and I cannot download any of the "premium content".The nasty thing about it is that customers bought their devices assuming different conditions. If R&S is serious about this, they should at least take back purchased equipment and refund the costs.Better avoid R&S as a private individual in the future.Edit: you cannot even download manuals without being logged in.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 02:50:23 pm
content: too many people said their super smart and they think they figured everything out and nothing useful will come from talking to the customers and that they will have the peak hardware forever despite not knowing the requirements other then from their biggest customers that are stuck in legacy mode

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:04:43 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 04, 2024, 02:44:38 pmLast time I checked KS lets you download firmware and manuals even as a private individual. Now it seems that at R&S it is not limited to them not talking to you, but they don't even let you help yourself with information and software on their website. This is really novel.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:06:34 pm
content: Right.https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/should not be a competitive advantage, but now it is."Premium content?" Do I have to subscribe to my oscilloscope's onlyfans to see waveforms now?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:10:38 pm
content: Bummer! First Keysight, now R&S. What's next? Subscriptions for DSOs?

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:25:30 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 04, 2024, 03:10:38 pmSshh! Don't give them any idea!

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:30:34 pm
content: Can't even download the manual?It would be toooooooooooooooooo crazy.my experience is that the permissions changed between 10/16 and 10/28.It would be a good idea for those who can download the file to back it up to xdevs, etc.Tek is still ok. need an account to download to software and firmware, but gmail will work.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 03:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on November 04, 2024, 03:06:34 pmAdult (XX)XY mode photos could make some pennies. 🤔

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 04:09:45 pm
content: The RTO2000 options page is private, but don't worry, I am here to leak the innovative new premium features

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pm
content: Hi Folks - like I said in the other thread, with respect to the new log-in requirements, I can only say I am sorry. It is something that appears to be a requirement moving forward. Because of so many registrations (and how quickly this happened), there have been some hiccups, but we're working to make it easier/better - hopefully we can ease some of the initial restrictions as we learn more.In the end, we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small. I realize it may not always seem that way and I honestly hate that (we're consumers too - and get frustrated at things like this as well).In the meantime - if you're a personal account and having trouble getting registered (while we figure out these new requirements), please don't hesitate to reach out to a partner - they are there to help and often have flexibility we do not.-Rich

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 06:20:27 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on November 04, 2024, 03:06:34 pmMuch prefer the FW/SW/Docs access from Shenzhen HQ to that from the US and EU websites.Freely available to everyone.......https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 06:49:06 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pmhow can partners have less restrictions than the mother company, unless they are self imposed?

author: Detlev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 08:51:11 pm
content: It's a shame, if that turns out to be true, Rohde & Schwarz will be dead for me. I have a few R&S devices, including the FPL1000, all bought new and now I shouldn't get any new firmware? So you lose the trust of your customers and the Chinese are happy.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 09:38:15 pm
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on November 04, 2024, 03:04:43 pmKeysight did not get that bad yet but I am saying that if you got a problem with them don't think it will go away if your with a big customer of theirs.A DMV approach. There is the illusion that if you roll with the gangsters you get things done. For anyone that thinks it might be discrimination.We put the guy that did odd jobs and had 'free time' at work to deal with KS. Not any of the experts... they all promptly said its futile. It would be kind of like Picard deciding to use Commander Riker instead of Geordi Le Forge for a engineering 'situation'... he always had a kind of method to deal with sleezey stuff.What I was getting at is a trend of the T&M companies getting generally bad. its like all your behavior if being leveraged to some how apply to some future negotiation rather then actually problem solving.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:06:06 pm
content: It's simple: companies have to follow the laws of the countries they operate from. There are certain countries they are not allowed to sell products to or provide firmware/code to. If they want to avoid fines when the books are audited, they'll need records of what went where.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: Hydron on November 04, 2024, 02:35:54 pmI just posted the other day that Keysight sent me a personalised email (because I'malreadyon their database) to download a free poster. Click on the link and I was taken to a sign up page to put in all my corporate details and intentions etc.I'malreadyon the system

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:32:03 pm
content: The DMV also mailed me the same warning 4 times 2 weeks after it was handled

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:37:05 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 04, 2024, 09:38:15 pmBut I don't expect them to solve my problems. I only want to download firmware updates, instrument drivers or manuals for my instruments every now and then.Quote from: J-R on November 04, 2024, 10:06:06 pmI'd be surprised if there's a legal requirement behind this (although this might be claimed as an excuse). This "premium content" stuff has written business-optimization-by-clueless-people all over it. And it's an opportunity to collect market data.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 10:43:27 pm
content: problems = software stop working (or drivers). kiss that computer connectivity good bye

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 11:00:44 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on November 04, 2024, 10:06:06 pmYes, I suspect this is the genesis of the change, other companies have been forced to do the same and have mentioned that is the reason. And it's easier to change the system globally then it is to manage different systems for different countries. So one countries stupid laws can ruin it for everyone. Don't get me started on the EU GDPR...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2024, 11:02:08 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pmCan you elucidate - exactly what requirement, from whom?

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 03:36:02 am
content: of course, thiscouldbe seen as an opportunity for other manufacturers to create a new selling point for their products. for instance, imagine seeing this in the product advertising:Unlike some of the others, theSiglent model SDS-now comes withGUARANTEEDfree lifetime firmware upgrades and manual availability from theSiglentwebsite.Justenter the(serial)model number of yourSiglentproduct and gain instant access tofreeupdated firmware, manuals, and unique special offers. No signup required.Siglent, we keep you safe and up to date,GUARANTEEDif this was run as part of an advertising campaign i'd imagine the likes of HP/R&S/etc would be a little taken aback. Siglent et al could even do something like what Fluke did when they released their 70 series multimeters, showing a field of beat-up and burnt out multimeters from the other manufacturers, with a pristine and fully working Fluke 77 pictured in the front of them.cheers,rob :-)edit: for those who are uncomfortable with the idea of entering aserial number, changed tomodel number. the intention was just to lead the user quickly to the right set of files.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 04:00:18 am
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on November 05, 2024, 03:36:02 amSiglent login is NOT required for docs, FW or SW however it is darn useful to identify a rebranded Siglent product using the Warranty tab to discover it's actual Siglent model.Just yesterday Siglent Tech support looked up a Digitech DSO for me and sent a screenshot identifying it as a 25 MHz SDS1022DL+ a model we don't see in the west in Siglent clothes.So after 11 years never needing to set up an account I did just now and used the Warranty status of that Digitech DSO to find its model.Too easy....we learn new tricks every day !

author: Calvin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2024, 07:32:03 am
content: Hi,QuoteOh yeah, we all know those marketing BS-excuses all too well.Neither you nor anybody else from RS answered my Qs a few years ago regarding some problems wih our Scope Rider RTH1004 and RS in Germany not really beeing helpful either.No reaction at all, nothing, nichts, nada.That´s when I basically stopped regarding RS as A-Brand source for us.regardsCalvin

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 01:02:06 pm
content: From the neighboring thread:Quote from: skander36 on November 06, 2024, 12:25:59 pmSo the idea seems to be that basically every private individual has to go to a distributor to have this resolved on a case-by-case basis. I can only hope that the dealers will give R&S a piece of their mind.Now what am I supposed to do when I, for example, want an update or a manual for my 10 year old vector signal generator that was never sold by any of the distributors? Will I have to trash it and buy one from China instead?Notice that in B2C contrats in Germany the customer has a right to receive updates for digital products "for a reasonable period of time". This implements an EU directive into national law. Seehere (in German).Moreover, the forthcoming EU Cyber Resilience Act will require manufacturers and vendors to issue security updates for certain digital products (most test modern equipment will fall under this act imo) "for a reasonable period of time". This will, as far as I read it, apply to B2B and B2C contrats alike. I hope R&S will have processes in place to comply with this act.Anyway, this means that R&S is dead for me.

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 01:40:47 pm
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on November 06, 2024, 01:02:06 pmSame here, using several R&S equipment (LISN, Receiver,Powersupplies, nothing fancy, just worth the money when bought. Also some RTB200x, RTM400x, Current Probes and so on).I will not buy R&S anymore as I really do not argue why my email is not looking as a "business-email"There are others who are thankfully take my money and ship good equipment without stupid questions.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 01:46:21 pm
content: Really sorry to hear about their policy change. I just don't see why these companies want to do this to loyal customers of new OR used equipment of theirs.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 01:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on November 06, 2024, 01:02:06 pmWhy? The dealers got a piece of the pie so they are supposed to work for it.Still, I think it is a very bad idea to put information & firmware behind a login. Especially if that means there is a processing delay. When I need a manual to look something up while working on a project, I need the information RIGHT NOW because I'm on the clock. Probably somebody in the marketing department came up with the stupid idea just to harvest email adresses and information about possible customers without realising it seriously hampers the existing customers (the ones more likely to spend money at R&S again without needing any effort from the marketing department).

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 02:32:37 pm
content: There is absolutely no excuse to put manuals behing a loginwall.Potential customers may well want to consult these to look at details to see if a product is suitable for their needs.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 03:02:46 pm
content: But they want customers to make buying decisions based on marketing flyers alone. If you buy a product and then find out it won't do what you want without a lot of extra work that's still a sale.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 03:23:02 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 06, 2024, 03:02:46 pmBut then you don't buy it.Even the cheapest $50 AWG FY3200 has a decent and downloadable spec sheet.Even if you're not blown away by the specs themselves, the information and accessibility of the specs makes the device a reasonably reputable product.Without this, I wouldn't have even paid the $50.

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 04:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 06, 2024, 01:49:19 pmWell, they have to dedicate resources to a potentially large number of inquires, develop processes, etc., and this likely comes as a surprise to them as well. I was hoping that they would find this annoying and unnecessary since the information is already available elsewhere.It is not the first time that R&S seem to try to pull this off. A year or two ago suddenly private accounts could no longer log on to GLORIS, which was then presented as an unfortunate mistake during data migration. The resolution was that private accounts could still retrieve all information from GLORIS, and only spare part orders and service requests were supposed to be handled by the distributors. Now the matter is obviously being forced through regardless of losses.Quote from: nctnico on November 06, 2024, 01:49:19 pmI couldn't agree more. Plus there can be legal obligations to provide updates and manuals, at least in the EU, and that will likely increase.

author: alonsojar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 04:25:46 pm
content: I also opened a ticket today before reading this thread and got the same answer: Since I don't have a corporate mail (I'm retired, so I don't have it anymore) I cannot access the system.I find this position stupid and arrogant, whatever was the reason for that.I was aware that in case of any real support request I should contact the dealer I purchased the equipment (Farnell and a local dealer in my case), but just to get an updated copy of a User Manual pdf or a fw download or even to check if there are any news... Seriously?This is taking us back to the pre-internet timesThank you R&SJ.Alonso

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 05:14:41 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 06, 2024, 02:32:37 pmEspecially when those manuals are for equipment that was obsoleted 20+ years ago. I'm looking at you, Keysight. et al.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 05:35:25 pm
content: Ultimately I don't think they are gonna care about this outrage. Their equipment is priced such that very few private people could afford it, and in companies there is typically a dedicated person which handles maintenance of devices fleet, so to them this registration is not going to be a problem (unless it will be ungodly buggy and will lead to some serious equipment downtime, which I doubt will be the case).

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 07:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: NE666 on November 06, 2024, 05:14:41 pmThe funny thing is that now you can't even check if there is a new firmware version for your R&S instrument that was shipped new today without explicitly asking the dealer. Unless you have a "company" email address. And you would have to make regular inquiries to keep your instrument up to date. Oh, and no manual for you without asking, since these days the boxes are only shipped with a brief "Getting Started" leaflet.Quote from: asmi on November 06, 2024, 05:35:25 pmLikely.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 08:12:15 pm
content: Probably some new guy making "improvements" ...https://euro-sd.com/2024/08/major-news/39797/rohde-and-schwarz-changes/

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 08:17:24 pm
content: Ok...it's not a new guy, but an existing (CIO) guy in a new ( COO) position.Good Luck!https://www.bisinfotech.com/personnel-change-to-the-rohde-schwarz-executive-board/

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 10:02:55 pm
content: Quote from: Calvin on November 05, 2024, 07:32:03 amThis is the way to go!!!

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 10:19:19 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 06, 2024, 02:32:37 pm^ This.Before buying any bit of kit I will grab the user manual to see if it does what I need and to get a feel for the UI. The harder this is, the easier it is to look elsewhere.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 10:52:18 pm
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on November 06, 2024, 07:52:10 pmThat is averygood point I'd like to emphasize!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 11:02:22 pm
content: But that's common practice now, across all manufacturers.“We” are much more drastic about it.You want a manual? Pay for it!...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 11:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 06, 2024, 11:02:22 pmHow many home / hobby customers does your company have? 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 11:55:25 pm
content: That is not the point in my view.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 11:59:20 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 06, 2024, 11:02:22 pmI assume that is a nicely printed, hand-bound printed / paper manual with autographs of the entire engineering team?I'd guess a PDF is still free?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:17:08 am
content: Nope.Either you know how an inverter/converter works, or you pay for it.I have to say that most of our products only have Start/Stop and Remote.Anyone who needs instructions for that doesn't deserve any better.(A small note: anyone who orders a document package from us will also receive circuit diagrams and service instructions.)

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:19:28 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 06, 2024, 11:55:25 pmWell, you did use the word "all" for manufacturers, and we know quite well that isn't the case. Siglent rules them all now. 😉

author: Neoname
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 06:32:23 am
content: I am very upset about this.I have a MXO4, LCX200 and a NGP824 all with options, all bought new.I previously had some Keysight equipment. All of which I sold off precisely because Keysight UK support refused to deal with me as a private individual after a display failure.I bought R&S equipment because they had no problem with me as a private individual. The company line in my GLORIS account says "Private - GB - United Kingdom Account for private person" and this was not a problem.As it stands, I cannot download firmware or see the manual for any of my equipment.There is a pop-up form that is supposed to enable access, but I cannot submit it because it gives the error "You cannot submit the form. There are errors. Please review" and keeps the company postal code box highlighted in red no matter what I put there.The postal code under my GLORIS My Profile - Personal Data - Company Data is blank, unsurprisingly.I'm hoping this is some bug that can be fixed. Else this is just another betrayal.

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 07:00:40 am
content: Tried to register a while ago, using company mail, .gov mail, .edu mail. All still shown the "get access" button. Clicking it will gets me "Your request was sent successfully" but they never come back with anything useful.So, do I get into the naughty list? Apparently not. The resources are still there available for me to access all this time. Just not in the most obvious or logical place. Wtf RS?The product pages and the request access are completely useless (for now). Instead you need to go to "My Rohde & Schwarz" link below your logged in account menu. You can still access most formerly readily available docs and collaterals from there.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 07:13:46 am
content: Can you actually download from those links though? I have GLORIS access and can see stuff but not actually download it. Total mess

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 07:14:23 am
content: I am not sure I understand what the exact issue is.Is the fact that R&S wants a login before offering downloads considered unacceptable?Or is the problem that they somehow bungled the implementation, so logging in or creating an account does not work? That would be a temporary problem, but they better fix it fast.Or is their new system working as designed, and in fact does not allow private accounts/customers? That would be a real no-go in my opinion.Thank you for clarifying!

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 07:31:55 am
content: All of the above, login just for viewing a manual is unacceptable, if you have an account it seems to still be broken or need some intervention, and finally sounds like they're leaving all private owners at the mercy of whoever they bought the gear from (so good luck getting even basic stuff like firmware or a manual if you bought second hand or the distributor went bust).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 12:04:38 pm
content: Quote from: jc101 on November 06, 2024, 10:19:19 pmAnd not only that but, by allowing anonymous access, you are guaranteed to not have your corporate e-mail spammed by the supplier asking for additional information about you, your position, relevance to the purchasing process and so on. I have my corporate e-mail already spammed enough for the things that I already use at work. I don't need more from simple research and prospective purchases.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 03:12:05 pm
content: How come, that R&S is supplying the military and has bodyscanners in their portfolio? That is quite far away from test equipment?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 03:24:53 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on November 07, 2024, 03:12:05 pmThey have always sold a wide range of HF equipment to my knowledge.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 03:59:18 pm
content: Almost all R&S product related downloads arelocked- FW updates, SW (can't even get latest SW release version number), manuals, drivers. All thiswas available in last month.This trend (among other signs) does not inspire confidence in R&S as a brand.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 04:39:06 pm
content: I think one reason will be that EU law now grants consumers the right to repair (US too?). This would mean that companies would have to provide schematics and sell individual parts ... something they all want to avoid like the plague. So they simply don't sell (and support) to end consumers ... problem solved.Oh, what good times there were when HP or Tektronix still had circuit diagrams available and every TV set came with detailed schematics.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 04:48:27 pm
content: Quote from: Pinkus on November 07, 2024, 04:39:06 pmMaybe, but I don't think there's anything in the law stating that they specifically need to supply parts or schematics?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 05:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 07, 2024, 03:24:53 pmI went to see their HQ in Munich some time in 90's. Some of the stuff they showed was broadcast radio and TV transmitters and for the military stuff like gear to do real time position tracking of radio transmission

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 05:36:23 pm
content: Soon the Rigol firmware schedule will look like a dream!I say this because who cares about an excellent firmware update policy if one can't download it??

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 05:40:48 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on November 07, 2024, 05:36:23 pmI also have no problems with downloads.https://hantek.com/DownLoad

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 05:56:56 pm
content: I never imagined that I would be putting a "thanks" in a message Hantek related...Thanks to R&S!!!

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 08:39:42 pm
content: I was about to pull the trigger on some R&S TE but guess what...

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2024, 09:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 07, 2024, 03:59:18 pmDrivers... locked! truely lost the plot.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 01:09:18 am
content: if its really about the military its silly that they don't split the business upI doubt radio location and encryption shit has too much to do with normal test equipment.Don't you feel like the 'closed off' companies feel totally weird ? You always feel like their foreigners and that you are a stereotype. Engineer wise. Kind of like when you visit another country and someone assumes everyone in your country is like obsessed with some niche regional thing that most people you know never heard of and it feels like creepy how they act like they know you but they really don't know you. it some how manifests itself as 'obsessive' actions.Like there is some ultra elaborate dissection of some esoteric aspect of work that might possibly be related to your work and no one knows how to make use of it but its like a major cost and equipment focus ? And they never figure it out because they just like do B2B surveys (interview trained professional liars that absolutely will act like your on the right 'wavelength' no matter what you say if you have enough money or your boss asked you to)? And then you end up with some hyper engineered feature that no one uses but costs a shit load. Like a $5000 deicer with 15% deicing speed built into those little triangle windows in the back of a car that you forgot existed. Or like those confusing gear choices in MMO's with some necklace that gives you plus 2 spirit on wensday evenings every other full moon.The R&S supply we have in the lab has some interesting features on it. We were wondering how many more test labs we would need to figure out how to incorporate that feature into a reasonable 'data source'. Like they would need to be trapped in purgatory for 5000 years before someone got interested in that test.Older engineers know more about this. I heard "signature analysis" that was being built into alot of equipment in like the late 70's had a 'bright future'. And I am sure you paid ransomly for that

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 01:20:54 am
content: My guess is that it is to do with export controls, exacerbated by the stuff going on in a certain large country in Europe (but not in the EU).It could also be partly because of management "discomfort" caused by certain popular threads on forums like this one.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2024, 06:40:46 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 08, 2024, 01:20:54 amWhat threads would cause discomfort? Their prices are high enough so that they wouldnt have to deal with too many private individuals.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:25:33 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on November 08, 2024, 06:40:46 amThe license hacking ones, both for their (mostly older generation) equipment but also their competitors.Business customers historically wouldn't go down that path especially with high value equipment, but as it becomes more mainstream it certainly could impact sales.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:30:19 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 09, 2024, 02:25:33 amI'd be surprised if that was a serious concern for them. Nobody in their right mind is going to spend between $50k to $500k (per unit!) on R&S gear and then waste their time or warranty trying to hack it.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:36:18 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 09, 2024, 02:30:19 amNot on the high end gear, no - but we are mainly discussing support of private purchasers here.I've seen mentions of people hacking their new equipment valued at more than $10k. And some licence key hacks could be valued more than that (per sale).But as I mention, the more this becomes normalized, the more concerning it may be for them.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:43:16 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 09, 2024, 02:36:18 amPerhaps. But I think that concern would make them have stricter licensing security, rather than locking up PDF user manuals.Siglent locks up their higher end licensing much tighter than the less expensive stuff. They known damn well that a portion of their market are hobbyists/home users that want to hack their gear. They also know they would lose business if they made the licensing more strict for everything. None of that has inspired them to lock up any of their PDFs or firmware.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 03:08:37 am
content: Yeah, restricting PDF manuals is insane - it will inevitably hurt sales. But companies overreact sometimes. Those making decision don't always understand the tech, and may not listen to those who do - at least until it hits the bottom line.Regarding your second point, R&S are almost certainly better these days at licensing security than others. They have a division that specializes in cybersecurity.I think their earlier stuff wasn't as well protected, but having it on the second hand market and be hackable could hurt some sales. I'm thinking for example a business or university with some older gear and some technical people willing to have a go could significantly extend the life of that gear and mean a lost or delayed sale. That obviously doesn't apply when the gear needs to be properly maintained and kept calibrated, but that is not always the case.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 03:38:34 am
content: Unless it's a school for hacking, I don't know if that's a realistic scenario. 😉

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 04:26:10 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 09, 2024, 03:08:37 amWell consider this:Many instruments offer BW upgrades as an option therefore what the instrument label may show does not match the Sys Info, be it hacked or via valid license upgrade.Applies to business or hacked upgrades.There is NOT a BW upgrade that cannot be hacked by dedicated individuals !

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 10:05:13 am
content: This might be something as stupid as export control on cryptography (they use it), and some stupid sanctions control overreaction.If they cannot control sales of actual equipment through 3rd parties, this way they show how they "try" to comply with export sanctions.Hundred of thousands of Mercedes cars that ended up on "wrong side of wall" could not be teleported back. But they denied access to support software, spare parts etc.R&S has major military/intelligence market, and big military/government contracts are what they have been doing as primary market for years. Small business/ private customers are just a supplementary business, nice cream on the top.If they had some complaints about export control by anybody (or even a hint that might be problem) they will protect their primary market.R&S is a business.And it probably makes sense to them.I personally think it is not going to do anything to actually prevent any proliferation of equipment or any software/FW/manual data where they don't like, but I think they know that too. They do it to show effort was put in and that they try.So small business/ private customers are going to have to either "beg" for "privilege" to have their equipment maintained properly, or switch to equipment that considers them their "real customer" and respects them properly.But, don't worry. I expect that soon enough there will be web sites where all the newest R&S FW, manuals and the rest will be re-shared with free access..

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 10:35:15 am
content: I would assume the reason is money. As a manufacturer you don't make any money when some hobbyist buys your products second-hand. Therefore you discourage them. And if the hobbyists want to buy a new device they can go a reseller who has to provide also the support. We don't want those pesky little hobbyists wasting our time and costing money.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 10:51:44 am
content: I wonder why Mr.Paul Denisowskidoesn't say anything?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 10:58:00 am
content: So I have an account that allows access to some downloads including manuals and other software, but when I click on a firmware update or release note for the RTM3000 it takes me to a login page with a "404 no access" header.At least it does show a release note.What a mess. Hopefully there will be a Senior R&S person at Electronica to complain to

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 11:00:54 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on November 09, 2024, 10:51:44 amI was wondering the same.He probably/ for sure does not have a proper excuse. .Maybe we should all stop buying R&S.Such behavior is simply unacceptable.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 11:23:02 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on November 09, 2024, 10:51:44 amhe must be in perhaps the toughest position of all: middle management.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 12:09:50 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 09, 2024, 10:35:15 amI highly doubt second hand sales concern them even a little bit. Those people would not be buying their new equipment at retail prices anyway..It is either political or extortion scheme (like Altium)

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 12:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 09, 2024, 12:09:50 pmMy guess is "consumer rights". I am not familiar with any legal details, but particularly in the EU there seem to be so many obligations when you sell to consumers, which either don't apply at all or can be negotiated in business-to-business relationships: Compulsory warranty, liability, localized manuals, WEEE electronic waste collection, etc. Life becomes easier when you can credibly show that you only cater to business customers.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 12:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 09, 2024, 12:29:26 pmwell, in this part of the world (NZ and Australia) the likes of R&S would beveryunhappy campers! out consumer guarantee laws here dictate that the end consumer can choose toeithergo back to the retailer,orgo back to the manufacturer - this choice is up to the consumer to decide upon. under the law products must "last well" and be "fit for purpose", and any attempt to limit a warranty to a specific fixed term simply does not apply. a manufacturer would be hard pushed to claim that where a firmware update exists that has fixed a bug, said firmware update could be withheld from the consumer.the only way R&S/Keysight/etc could get around these liabilities is to removeallretail supply channels, and somehow figure out a way to stop 'business-to-business' purchasers from being able to on-sell products. perhaps going for a model where they only lease products to their business customers might work?cheers,rob :-)

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 12:59:21 pm
content: Quote from: squadchannel on November 09, 2024, 11:23:02 amDaniel Bogdanoff hardly posts here any more, only to announce a new product. He used to do more, until Keysight decided to warn individuals/hobbyists they don't want their business like they did on their Ebay store. I just checked and it's still true. Keysight Terms of Sale attached.Keysight Ebay Store7. Generalj.Products are intended for professional and industrial use only, andare not suitable for consumer or household use, and Customerrepresents and warrants that it is not acquiring Products for suchuses. Consumer or household use, or use outside of the Specificationfor the Product, will nullify Sections 2(a), (b) and (e), 4(a) and (b), 5(b)and 6 of these Terms and void the warranty terms set out, orincorporated in, Section 3Note: Daniel is a nice person and a long time ago he helped me get some knobs ordered on the Keysight company system. I know he's in a tight spot with these kinds of terms.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 01:39:34 pm
content: At least with KS you can get FW updates just by entering fake details into the form & getting straight to a download link

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 02:25:47 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 09, 2024, 01:39:34 pmWith KS you can at leastseethe latest FW number on the website without any forms/logins and then decide to fill forms or login for download. With R&S, you have to login first to even see the latest FW number.

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 05:44:45 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on November 09, 2024, 12:59:21 pmThis is also true for Rich and Paul from R&S. It is my hope that they both understand that all the whining and nagging going on here is not directed against them personally.However, I would like to stress that I find R&S's policy on that matter unacceptable.

author: cte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 05:56:08 pm
content: It seems like the historic HAMEG service manuals have gone, too.https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/hameg-archive/HM205-3_english.pdf-> 404

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2024, 08:59:40 pm
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on November 09, 2024, 12:48:15 pmThats is where the market has been moving, Keysight already offer that on most "software" licenses.

author: alonsojar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 11:15:12 am
content: After reading most of your comments I cannot find any good reason to hide us the basic information of the devices we own or we consider to purchase (not my case in a future).Is there any secret contained in the user manuals or in a reference to the lastest firmware level available?I honestly think that as customers we deserve that, and yes I said customers, because we bought R&S brand, not Farnell, Batronix or any other distributor. I accept that for a REAL service request we should go trough a partner, this is a common policy in many brands, but this last movement is unnecessary, irrespective and irritating imo.J. Alonso

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 12:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on November 09, 2024, 12:59:21 pmThis store has no inventory available in your location

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 05:50:03 pm
content: Today I received the following email fromnews@rohde-schwarz.com:QuoteDoes that mean they still haven't made up their mind if I'm eligible for the premium content?Weird. Let's hope it all comes good.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 06:25:21 pm
content: The "accept" box is still broken a week later. You can't check it without Inspect Element. I would guess that this is unintentional and another indicator that the whole matter is still mess rather than policy. There's hope!Btw: customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com is in the trenches with sharepoint links doing their best to smooth it over. If you have R&S kit, better request these before the left hand and the right hand of R&S get on the same page about not wanting anything to do with you. I hope for better, of course, but I'd be a fool to assume it. Now is the time to hedge. Send an email and ask for the manuals and updates relevant to you while you can.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 07:08:35 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on November 11, 2024, 06:25:21 pmAs is the page it takes you to request access -it insisted I correct an incomplete postcode but can't enter anything in the box...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 07:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 09, 2024, 10:35:15 amA lot of hobbyists tinkering with the big boy equipment have day jobs where they also work with this kind of stuff. Pissing the hobbyists off just means pissing off part of your customer base. They'll just remember the company as troublesome and unreliable and pick another brand, because no company wants to deal with that.

author: alonsojar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 08:28:37 pm
content: I also received that today, but it's probably an automatic note issued because the time spent since our registration attempt. It can be true there are delays due to mass registration of people with customer enterprise domains.In my case Ive got a very explicit answer from their 'support' team in Munich explaining that I cannot get support nor registration with them because my generic mail address is against its MYC (meet your customer??) policies.Let's wait and see, but I don't expect any change. Just my opinión.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 09:21:47 pm
content: Quote from: alonsojar on November 11, 2024, 08:28:37 pmHave you asked them what this MYC is?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 09:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 11, 2024, 07:30:05 pm100% correct. That's the same reason a lot of schools use specific brands for what they teach on. Companies know that, and they'll give the schools a good deal on the equipment so when those students graduate and work professionally, they'll think of those brands first. Unless they had a problem getting a firmware update or manual for some reason. 🤔

author: alonsojar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 10:00:22 pm
content: QuoteSorry, my mistake... That's the exact excerpt of the answer I mentioned:QuoteI googled KYC and this is probably meaning "Know Your Customer", not exactly Meet

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 10:43:21 pm
content: Quote from: alonsojar on November 11, 2024, 10:00:22 pmSome quick googling on "KYC" seems to indicate a relation with EU requirements for banks and financial service providers to prevent money laundering. Not something that seems particularly relevant for test gear manuals and firmware updates.I still think that this is some kind of "business optimization" done by clueless people, and that the "KYC" thing is just a bullshit buzzword being slapped on it.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 10:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: alonsojar on November 11, 2024, 10:00:22 pmYou should have ASKED. Dont just sit there and be sad about it. Be curious and furious!I think i found the answer:You will find that KYC is used to prevent money laundry and scams. So it seems this will be the end of manuals and firmwares of R&S for hobbyist`s...

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 10:48:14 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 09, 2024, 12:29:26 pmThis is my guess too. Documentation and marketing collateral becomes legally binding offers and promises. A consumer can destroy the frontend of a VNA in ten seconds, then turn around and demand it be fixed or replaced under warranty, pointing to consumer protection laws. A consumer by their very nature is not supposed to be what in the U.S. is called "an expert in the field", no pressing of buttons or plugging things in is supposed to destroy $30k worth of equipment without warning. Consumers have rights to third-party repair, legal recourse if a firmware update bricks a device, and so on. Lots and lots of legal protections that simply don't exist in B2B, where unless it's stipulated in the purchase agreement it doesn't exist. Industrial customers are expected to be "experts in the field" and able to do their own evaluations and consider their purchases. Of course, a voltmeter might be more durable, but it's still requires being prepared to handle consumer protection laws, interact with government agencies to resolve complaints, etc.In the U.S. whether a sale falls under an industrial or consumer rubric depends on the item sold. In the EU it depends on the buying legal entity, whether it's a private individual specifically. I think the latter is a problem, as it effectively risks preventing private individuals from buying industrial equipment. (And T&M is categorized as industrial in the U.S.) U.S. law also excludes statutory consumer protections from parts and kits, but the EU doesn't and I would fear even more than T&M that if I lived in the EU eventually component distributors would stop wanting to do business with me as well.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 10:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on November 11, 2024, 10:43:21 pmMore and more is going to be controlled, every bloody receipt has and unique ID if you go to the grocery store, so i think its not just a buzzword...

author: Sensorcat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 10:53:21 pm
content: Quote from: alonsojar on November 11, 2024, 10:00:22 pmThat's a ridiculously stupid approach from them. This forum with it's mixed hobby/pro audience is the proof that you cannot (any more) have a different reputation with different groups, because people talk and write, crossing all former boundaries. And then they believe that they 'KYC' because the customer has a domain/website. As if they don't know how the internet works. At 2$ or € per month, any provider happily helps you to mimic a company if you like ("On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog!"). They should put their energy into providing products and service to convince all people that their products are still worth the premium. But if buying Keysight or R&S means trouble, why not buying cheap instead? My long-term conclusion, regarding the topic of this thread and many similar observations in the last two decades: The fate of a company in a technology-driven market is sealed when the business people take over. Not that their failure has immediate effect, but they ruin everything in one or two product life cycles, such that the once proud company becomes easy prey for competitors which work as the tech-oriented predecessors did. Sadly, that is not what you learn in an MBA program. And the next quarter, business-wise, will still be fine...

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 11:24:13 pm
content: Quote from: bson on November 11, 2024, 10:48:14 pmI don't think so. All the consumer rights (like right to return, warranty, right of repair or cancellation etc.) are a thing between the distributor and the buyer. The manufacturer would be largely out of the equation (for cheap stuff from a retailer this could, after all, be a Shenzhen backyard shop). The manufacturer's responsibility is only to deliver a product that has the guaranteed properties and that is marketable within the EU, i.e. has a CE mark which shows that it conforms to the relevant EU directives (and even this duty could be transferable to a retailer or importer). And these requirements would be the same in a B2B contract.I can still buy all R&S gear that is carried by the distributors, no problem. It is just that R&S has jump me through hoops now to get a manual or a firmware update by requiring me to ask the distributor. R&S can point to them since they are my contractual partner in this case and have to deliver a manual, which is a requirement in the B2B and B2C case alike (notice that the product safety terms are still shipped with the gear as a hardcopy, since this is required by the General Product Safety Regulation). This all has no bearing on consumer rights whatsoever. It is just bad service and it does make R&S gear unattractive for me as there are more convenient options available on the market (Keysight is one example).

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 11:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on November 11, 2024, 10:45:56 pmWould you care to explain how I could use my test gear manuals for money laundering?

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 06:48:48 am
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on November 11, 2024, 11:38:28 pmIndeed that sounds quite stupid... Its more like a roundup way of resolving issues: there will be rarely growing anything else.Putting B2B in place to comply with KYC and in doing so, destroying other things...

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 01:10:55 pm
content: Can it be because of sanctions against Russia?Some sanctioned functions are included and can't be separated.So only accounts that are accountable are accepted.(not very rational idea)

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 02:33:59 pm
content: Yeah, bureaucracies grow in weird ways and the history leaves an imprint. My favorite example is US Export Control: if you are exporting something mundane, the classification is EAR-99 in category "CATEGORY 0 - NUCLEAR MATERIALS,. FACILITIES, AND ... " It's not because grandma's teapot is suspected to contain enriched plutonium, it's because the first thing to be export controlled was nuclear material so that's where the code for miscellaneous items is. Everything else was just tacked on later.

author: phs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 12:18:03 am
content: Was getting same R&S website dysfunction as mikeselectricstuff. Yesterday got an email from R&S:..."Thank you for registering to access to the Rohde & Schwarz customer portal. The registration process is currently taking longer than usual due to ongoing system updates. Please rest assured that our team is working to process registrations as quickly as possible.We truly appreciate your understanding and patience during this time of transition. If you have any immediate questions, please feel free to contact us.Best regards,Rohde & Schwarz Customer Support"...This has created a big deal with our partners. The old adage still holds true -- the customer must come first! There's no way to tell how any of your customers may affect your sales in the future -- no matter how small they are when they put their trust in you, as a company, and spend their hard-earned money on your products.Shame on R&SEdited: Tone of message due to frustration about our wasted time.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 12:59:16 am
content: The site is still broken but customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com is sending out sharepoint links.I'm still worried about where this is headed, but for the moment support was able to get me what I needed.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 06:39:32 am
content: If they want to change their policy, fine. But if they messed up while doing so, they could just undo it for now (unless their IT is incapable of doing so) and have downloads without account. Then they fix their mistakes, and set downloads to "account only" again.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:28:03 pm
content: They approved me for access to LCX, RTO1000, RTO2000 this morning and I can now see documents + firmware on the site itself without emailing anyone. How is it going for everyone else?

author: mahi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 08:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on November 14, 2024, 02:28:03 pmDo you mean you have only access to the devices you own(ed)? You can't, for example, get the user manuals or firmware changelogs for other devices? Or is this a temporary situation until R&S gets things sorted out?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:02:12 pm
content: It's funny how quickly my future plans for something from the MXO series vanished.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:59:39 pm
content: No, those were the files I specifically requested (and received) and the sections where I specifically clicked on the "Get Access" button. However, it looks likeI now have access to everything. I just checked and I can download ZNA and FSW (and RTE and MXO) manuals and firmware even though I never clicked "Get Access" on those pages or sent emails specifically requesting those files.The rollout was rough but the eventual policy position seems to be more or less aligned with Keysight and LeCroy. I can live with that.EDIT: mild emphasis

author: chilternview
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 10:53:48 am
content: Had an email this morning from R&S saying 'You can now access and enjoy "Product Downloads" immediately'.So I immediately logged in and sure enough I can download the latest firmware for my RTM3000.

author: Calvin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 03:12:54 pm
content: Hi,what does KYC stand for?Kill Your ChickenCalvin

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 06:09:56 pm
content: I'm just glad that it wasn't MYC, which I assume meant "Mow Your Customer" in reference to Larry"The Lawnmower"Ellison.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 08:43:13 pm
content: It would be good, if someone could download all the manuals and put them up somewhere. Especially the old hameg manuals. For the hobbyists...

author: Harry_22
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 08:32:53 am
content: I didn’t pass face control.And this is after more than 15 years of dedicated work in the company.It's very disappointing.But tomorrow I’ll still go do maintenance to support my favorite company!

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 09:42:50 am
content: I saw that on the end of the month (29Nov.-2Dec) is a planned maintenance. Maybe after that the things will go better.

author: mahi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 10:51:36 am
content: I wanted to test something on my Rohde & Schwarz HMP4040 for user kaffine inQuad output bench power supply, but thanks to the new bullshit policy I can't download the required software anymore...Is there anyone who can download the latest version ofR&S HMExplorerand put it online for download? Thank you!→ A friendly forum member sent me the installer. Thank you!

author: eleguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 03:58:45 pm
content: We got denied as well. Sent just a long long (super sarcastic) message asking if they see only big players as their customers or if this is just some sort of "misunderstanding".Lets see what they respond...

author: eleguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 04:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on November 14, 2024, 09:02:12 pmYep, same here...

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 04:29:10 pm
content: Wait, are they actually rejecting people after verifying identity or is the verification process just slow and slightly broken? Verification still sucks (and always will), but the problems described earlier in the thread are no longer happening for me. After verification, I am not locked out of manuals or downloads and they do not require separate permissions for each product. Once I log in, the site is useful again. It is no longer "broken verification, broken website" but "slow verification, working website." Which isn't great, but it's more or less industry standard so.What was the wording of the rejection? Just "can't verify business email"? If so, don't lose hope, that's what they said to me at first but they came around.

author: eleguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 07:35:47 pm
content: We got rejected after they had "verified" our information. In their (copy/paste apparently) reply they sayQuoteThe list of valid Finnish companies seems to be provided by Dun & Bradstreet. Our company was not listed but some bigger were. After typing some characters into the field n-times system offered me a way to manually type in company name and so. Then I got the email verification link which succeeded. After than one can login but does not see downloads etc.But let's see what they respond from their local office. I let you know...

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 08:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on December 02, 2024, 04:29:10 pmVerifying that a .com email address used for the registration is a valid email address by itself does not appear to be sufficient.I received the same rejection notice as in the previous reply to my registered .com email address:QuoteFrom the Dun & Bradstreet logo on the registration page, maybe they are using their database of businesses to screen the company name used for registration against legitimate company names in the database as a step beyond just verifying that the registered .com email address doesn't just bounce.As someone that is now retired and no longer working for a big company, I doubt that trying to plead my case to a human for access would go anywhere.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:11:04 pm
content: Yeah, they weren't impressed by the email but they accepted the D&B number I gave them. I put my personal company into Dun & Bradstreet the other year for unrelated reasons, perhaps that is why it went smoother for me. D&B wanted to see tax forms and a phone number that they could call and have someone actually pick up (of course my spam filter blocked them the first time). This was for USA, I don't know if it works the same way everywhere.Requiring a business credit history to access downloads seems a bit much. Hopefully it's just a result of copying an account creation process optimized for sales on credit, but I suppose we'll see if it sticks around.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:12:12 pm
content: At least they appreciate your interest and effort.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: gslick on December 02, 2024, 08:37:35 pmMy company has a .com and is a registered LLC in the US. I just checked and the company appears in D&B. A few weeks ago my Rohde & Schwarz registration was cancelled and then reactivated after being "verified" in a day or so.After being a long-time HPAK customer, I am seriously regretting our first investment of $35k into R&S gear, having been duly impressed with the MXO4/5. That purchase is nothing to them, I know, but it will end there for us. I won't play these games not knowing if next year maybe we'll be categorized as too small, or maybe insufficient financial information. And do I dare buy a multi-year service contract for equipment purchased not knowing if they will honor it.I hope they can at least finish the features on that scope product line and fix a few bugs (to be reported) before they arbitrarily cut me off again. My mistake for buying futures. Sometimes I don't learn.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:46:59 pm
content: I don't think that any criteria is about the size of the company, acquisitions from R&S, service contracts or financial information's.My company under the R&S account was registered has nothing from this list (is a small one, almost insignificant, no service contracts, no financial info) so nothing that can favor access.I think that their system is under pressure to meet some compliancy with new regulations. Will see how they will deal with that in the near future.

author: Harry_22
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:52:14 pm
content: ...deleted.Sorry for non-constructive dialog.

author: Harry_22
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 10:23:58 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pmDear Rich,I realized that people who care about what is happening in the company have gathered here.There are many long-standing Сustomers, of whom the company is so proud and who are unhappy with its new policy.Here only you represent Rohde&Schwarz and therefore our main hope for the company's feedback.Now it is very important which side you will take in relation to the Customer and protect his right to be independent and to receive the necessary information.Please help make the company better!

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 12:11:36 pm
content: Today I tried to see if new firmware was available for my NGE103B power supply. I do have a registered account at R&S but I now needed to click a button to have my account verified before getting access to "premium content". The verification was rejected.So, if this is a website problem, it is outrageous that this problem has persisted for over a month. If this is a policy problem, it is outrageous not to inform the existing customers of this policy change. I am left in the dark about why they rejected the verification. I am a business customer with a valid business e-mail address (certificates an all) and a website, doing business for over 25 years.I e-mailed Paul Denisowski about this. Hopefully I can shed some light on this.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 01:40:27 pm
content: Did you try customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com ? They gave me a few sharepoint links before I convinced them to activate my account.

author: rf-messkopf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 03:18:19 pm
content: No progress on that matter, I still cannot log in, and I didn't receive a rejection email.I talked to a R&S representative at their booth at the electronica fair in Munich in November. After explaining that I was blocked from downloads, they said that that problem could be solved and I shouldn't worry, and that they understood the concerns. They took my contact details and later I received a phone call from a salesperson of their Hamburg branch (imagine, on my evil private number). After exchanging some emails (over my evil private address) it was pointed out that for manuals and firmware I should go through a dealer, but that they are happy to help with any technical inquiries. I made clear that I'm not going to buy any more R&S gear under these conditions.I also talked to some distributors. They said that they are happy to help with downloads but cannot do anything about the situation, obviously. I recommended that they clearly state the problem to R&S, as it is also hindering their sales. No idea if they did.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 04:22:13 pm
content: I would point out to this wikipedia page..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohde_%26_SchwarzRead all the way to the bottom of the page..It explains everything.R&S is pretty much a very large military/government contractor and to be that, they have to be very careful about some things and obey by the rules, very strictly.And since that is their core business, that takes priority.So basically, like Rich said, without going into why, they are not happy to do this to small/private companies and individuals, but it is a cost of doing "that other" business, that is real breadwinner...And this change is here to stay. And get even more strict with time, by the looks of the political situation now...

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:01:25 pm
content: That's a good point and likely why Keysight has taken their stance wrt the small folks. Add to this the ability of clever adversaries to "reconfigure" standard test equipment into something that has military use/significance and the Export Restriction Regulations begin to make sense.Here in USA with the new administrations threats of high restrictive tariffs, makes one wonder if now is the time to acquire new foreign TENot good for us little folks, but likely will be the way of the futureBest

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:10:59 pm
content: Export restrictions rarely make sense. The people who want them will get them through 3rd parties whether you like it or not, and you'll encourage the development of the restricted goods by other vendors. They're a way to satisfy local political agitation, not a way to keep technology from your enemies.Look at thermal cameras, severely restricted under ITAR to stop me in the UK buying Flir cameras capable of better than 15 frames per second. Now I can get 25 frames per second cameras extremely cheap from china. No need for Flir.I don't know the actual restrictions or how they've changed over the last few years but I don't see how that's benefited anyone in America, least of all the military.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:14:12 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 03, 2024, 05:01:25 pmMy thinking is that even with 100% tariffs, a Siglent scope is still going to be fraction of the price of comparable Keysight scope. Problem arises only it they outright ban imports completely. But if things get heated that much, I think there will be bigger problems to worry about.....

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:20:09 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 03, 2024, 04:22:13 pmI don't buy it that theyhave tostop supporting private customers for whatever compliance reasons. That does not make sense as long as they stillsellproducts to individuals -- which they do, via distributors. Some products for military use have always been restricted, I'm sure, and will continue to be; that's not what is behind the current initiative.This seems much more like a "too much support cost for too little gain" situation, i.e. a pure cost reduction play. In which case I cannot understand why they restrict access to the download portal and make end users jump through hoops to ultimately obtain the same information via distributors. I could understand a "individuals can't talk to our support staff, that takes too much resources" policy. But if a well-maintained document portal is already online for commercial customers, why not let other customers access it?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: artag on December 03, 2024, 05:10:59 pmNobody thinks it works. It is just that we need to obey the rules we are imposed upon by countries we live in.In reality, if you. for example, restrict access in USA to, say, affordable scopes, that will be good business for Keysight but bad for rest of electronics and other industries that use scopes. Apply that logic for all the tools, energy... They will have much larger cost of doing business and they might go out of business or will be severely limited in capabilities.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 03, 2024, 05:20:09 pmWell, you can buy it or not, but that is definitely part of the reason.And you are not buying it because you think like an engineer: when you are posed with a problem your instinct is to fix it, solve it. The problem.Corporations are run by economists and lawyers.They solve the problem by choosing what solution cost less (economist), and by shifting blame (lawyers).So if small volume of business to certain market is threatening large profit margin market, they prioritize big, certain money in big chunks with long term contracts over what is basically consumer market with unsure outcomes.And if fine cost less than solution, they are happy to pay fine and move on.And don't worry, they will still sell to those "secondary markets", but now they have a distribution contract with some company that specializes in consumer and small business sales. They sign all kinds of security contracts with them, where that OTHER company GUARANTEES they will not sell to those people they are not supposed to. And deal with pesky GDPR or whatnot.And funny enough, USA still considers encryption technology a controlled technology, and funny enough fact that R&S FW image is encrypted (to prevent decompiling) is enough to trigger export control from these dimwitted bureaucrats.And since keeping track of what is and what is not OK to distribute is never ending and ever changing maze of rules worth of Kafka making a new book, they simplify.With government, MIC, military, and large industrial contracts (that are mostly also companies that are also under same rules through their own customers) they do paperwork and sales directly.Rest is practically outsourced to distributors, through contracts that put all the blame for goods ending up in "wrong hands" to distributors.See, the goal is not to stop proliferation in "wrong hands". Goal is for somebody else to be guilty, if that happens, and for their hands to stay clean.

author: eleguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: rf-messkopf on December 03, 2024, 03:18:19 pmYes, right but how do I now even know when there is a new firmware available? Should I ask the distributor to distribute this half-secret information now and then?

author: dexar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 06:07:23 pm
content: What I think is most strange about all this is why RS doesn't just explain WHY they choose to go on like this? That would make it less irritating.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 07:13:51 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 03, 2024, 05:14:12 pmI don't think this move would make a lot of sense, as historically such restrictions only create black market demand for such products. As long as there is a demand for a product, there will be a supply. And like you mentioned, even with added costs for all that overhead, they will still likely end up cheaper.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 07:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on December 03, 2024, 07:13:51 pmLooking at the world right now, I don't expect them to behave in what you and I would think is logical..

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 04:25:31 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 03, 2024, 05:41:52 pmLong ago we had a new over zealous ITAR Security person that got on my case about talking with our Canadian design team about the required Supply Voltages and rise/fall times for the chip interface they were designing, they were doing some of the digital stuff for our new SoC. She said these are forgiven nationals and that information is restricted under ITAR, and we must get prior authorization from Security on what we can say and discuss with themLater we had a major technical meeting with customer is a secure area (SCIF) where no phones, laptops or any electronics are allowed, and she attended to make sure we were in compliance. During the meeting I got up and stopped the meeting and asked everyone to turn in their pencils, pens and paper notebooks to Security. When asked why, I said look at your pencils and pens, some of these were made in China, and some paper notebooks were from China and India, I grabbed our Security persons pen and sure enough it was from China!! This is clearly a Security Violation and our on site Security Personnell will collect all these items and file a formal Security Violation report and many of you may be asked to return later (many flew in for these meetings) and for a personal Security Interview as required for a Violation!! Needless to say our over zealous Security person didn't attend any more technical meetings and soon left our groupAs ridiculous as this sounds, this is how things can get twisted where someone with no common sense is empoweredBest

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 08:22:01 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on December 04, 2024, 04:25:31 amLOL,but yes those are exactly things that happen all the time..

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 09:02:13 am
content: this is like my idea of team america world police sequel with the team taking easy jobs in the ITAR office after getting a PTSD diagnosishttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/yi3oyO9IZCc

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 09:54:47 am
content: Restricting access to updates is also a clear security risk - instead of getting updates from a trusted source, some people will need to get them from elsewhere, possibly compromised.

author: eleguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 11:58:04 am
content: Today we got an access. I had to create a support ticket as they did not answer to this question in other channels. In their response they said that "R&S does only B2B business". Maybe we got rejected at the first place thanks to D&B not recognizing us as a company.Something else. I downloaded firmware with release notes just to see if it works out. It did. Release notes seems to have now text "COMPANY RESTRICTED" at the first page. That could have been there earlier but thanks to what happened at least now it popped out clearly.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 12:53:32 pm
content: I am a business customer in Australia, and bought my RTB2K and some other gear direct from R&S. My products are registered under my account, and the name of the sales rep I dealt with is also listed on my account.A few weeks ago I was able to access downloads, but when I went to download the latest RTB2 user manual yesterday my access was now blocked. I got an email that my download request was being processed, and a few hours later that access to product downloads was approved.I just tried again tonight, logging in first and again I got a download restricted error but after logging in again from that page the downloads now work. So it still seems to be a bit of a mess even for the approved business customers...

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 03:05:14 pm
content: I cannot help but noting some snippets in the promotional text R&S uses for its 'new' RTB2 osciloscope:"This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students,hobbyistsand engineers working in environments with limited space."This is a brand new text (12-Nov-2024) in which R&S is actively promoting this instrument for, well, hobbyists.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/about/news-press/all-news/rohde-schwarz-presents-the-r-s-rtb-2-a-new-entry-level-oscilloscope-with-class-leading-specifications-press-release-detailpage_229356-1529856.html

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 03:37:50 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on December 05, 2024, 03:05:14 pmBig company - not everyone is on the same page yet.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 04:01:36 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on December 05, 2024, 03:05:14 pmWell, R&S stillsellto hobbyists (via their distributors/resellers). They just don'ttalkto them anymore.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 05:49:20 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 05, 2024, 04:01:36 pmWhich doesn't need to be a problem if the resellers take over that role. I purchased three R&S instruments from Farnell. They do now offer download of manuals and other stuff, but no firmware updates. So, until that happens, R&S should provide us with updates.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 05:52:02 pm
content: In the mean time, R&S has now rejected my request for access three times and they have not answered my questions about this, filed through their "official" channel. Very bad. If I did that to my customers, I could close my business.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 02:00:42 pm
content: Quote from: mhsprang on December 05, 2024, 05:52:02 pmToo bad, that people dont know that they actually have quite some power.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2024, 02:13:19 pm
content: My access at work was just granted on Tuesday, after originally registering on November 7. Though I can’t see the internal email chain, one of the emails included my R&S sales representative in the CC, so it looks like the internal process might be quite complex.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2024, 05:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 06, 2024, 02:13:19 pmThat would explain, why they dont want to be bothered by individuals anymore. If so, then i guess, other companys will (have to) follow.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2024, 04:40:40 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pmNothing shows "we really do value you!" better than a series of barriers and "please provide a photo of you in underwear holding today's newspaper and a photo id", followed by a "request ignored or rejected" message!Thanks, no, I'll rather stay away from R&S instruments. Please "value" someone else.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2024, 04:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pmYou mean, some customers have a big value and others have a small value to R&S?Thanks for being honest about it.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2024, 06:29:35 pm
content: I'm going to show how I feel about my new value as a small R&S customer when I'm wearing my TE purchasing hat at my day job working for a much larger (no longer) potential customer.Edit: to be honest even if I weren't personally being screwed by this stupid unexplained policy, needing to jump through hoops to get a manual prior to purchase would put R&S right to the bottom of the list on its own. Got enough shit to do at work without extra BS to wade through.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 03:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 09, 2024, 04:53:02 pmThat is not what he said.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 04:11:03 pm
content: Quote from: moerm on December 09, 2024, 04:40:40 pmMaybe it was the underwear photo that earned the rejection? 😉😉

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 04:23:51 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 11, 2024, 03:57:08 pmI know. Sadly, he wasnothonest in his sales & marketing waffle.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 04:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 04:23:51 pmThat's not fair at all. He obviously enjoyed working with the hobbyist crowd. It's not his policy, or his choice what R&S decided to do. He just has to follow the new rules. 🤷

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 05:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on December 11, 2024, 04:58:11 pmI did not expect Rich to change or bend the rules; he obviously can't. But I would have hoped that he can communicate here without that "we really do value each of you as a customer - big or small" blurb. If that wasn't sales & marketing waffle, how would you call it?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 05:23:06 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 05:05:21 pmCourtesy? If he had said nothing, you would be here saying that not even "some kind words..."."Preso por ter cão e preso por não ter."- portuguese expression

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 06:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 05:05:21 pmSo every Marketing person isnothonest? I support KungFuJosh point: unfair comment.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 06:29:22 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on December 11, 2024, 05:23:06 pmOh, come on. There are so manyrealand sincere statements he could have made:"It was a business decision not everyone is happy with.""Unfortunately we are forced to restrict this information for compliance reasons.""We will give existing and potential individual customers full access to manuals and firmware via our authorized local distributors. A list of these distributors is online here:".Any of these, and many more, would have been acourtesyin my book. But not his "we will not talk to you anymore, but rest assured that we value you". From the company who gobbled up Hameg,theEuropean brand for hobbyist oscilloscopes.Quote from: Furna on December 11, 2024, 06:20:24 pmPlease don't twist the words in my mouth. He was not honest in making this particular comment, is what I wrote. I certainly stand by that.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 06:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 06:29:22 pmI was provoking you, as you provoked him.I would then change the phrasing in "his Marketing skills could have been better in this specif occasion" followed by what you just wrote in your last post.Nothonestis unfair.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 07:18:10 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 06:29:22 pmSeriously? You can't say he wasn't honest. Why don't you try quoting everything he said, instead of cherry-picking the part that triggered you:Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on November 04, 2024, 05:06:25 pm

author: uliano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 08:14:43 pm
content: The full quote is self contradictory. Honesty can’t be.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 08:24:06 pm
content: Like always, he needs to be carefull what to say, lawyers and all..For those who are confused, pay attention to use of word "we".Who is "we"?R&S part that made this decision, or people that spent last 20-30 years supporting these same clients... ?I think his message was clear and honest. And explanatory enough.Life is not mathematical formula. There is finesse.In all our discourse, he always was on the side of R&S ( which is loyalty, a noble human trait, so rare nowadays), but never dishonest, or dismissive of any competition. Quite the contrary, he had healthy respect even for newcomers to market, and gave respect where respect was due. Newer a word was uttered that seemed like lie or deliberate misdirect.In few occasions when he was wrong, he owned it.That is my impression of a person. I don't know him personally, but that is what I got from what I know.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 08:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 04:23:51 pmI really don't think you can say that until we actually know what's going on.But given that LeCroy did something similar, now R&S, and Keysight cutting off sales to consumers, it very much seems likely to me that there's some regulation that's forcing all these companies to do it. I would not be surprised if we see Tektronix following suit.If we assume it is indeed some law that is forcing companies to restrict access to products and/or information, then a sales/marketing rep saying "we value our customers, large and small, and are not pleased by the situation" is eminently believable. People who work in sales/marketing tend to be people persons. (I have worked in sales, and have worked in marketing-adjacent industries, too.)And having worked for a very large corporation (a certain "fruit company") before, in sales, I am absolutely familiar with being in the position of having to present and defend a situation to customers, even though I a) have no control over said situation, and b) don't agree with it. So don't be so quick to dismiss the sales/marketing person's statement as dishonesty.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 09:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 11, 2024, 08:50:37 pmLast time I checked, laws and regulations were public in most civilized countries. I am not buying into "some government agency is forcing them to do it, and stopping them from talking about the reasons" -- that's conspiracy BS. And if there are whatever liability concerns, warranty or other consumer rights implications, or just plain cost and overhead savings behind this, I don't see what stops R&S from explaining the reasons.If people feel very strongly about the "dishonest" attribute, I'll settle for "insincere".

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 09:16:06 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 09:05:18 pmThat sounds more acepptable even if it might not correspond to reality,Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to fight a company policy.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 09:30:33 pm
content: Quote from: Furna on December 11, 2024, 09:16:06 pmIf you re-read my posts, you may find that I have exclusively talked about the communication, not about the policy itself. The policy sucks, but I don't blame individual R&S marketing people for its existence or expect them to change it. I do, however, expect them to explain ithonestlysincerely.Which, to be fair, Rich did a bit of -- thanks to Josh for the full quote. But glossing things over with the "we value you all" blurp makes it sound insincere to my ears.Edit: I have probably replied too many times about this topic already. 'nuff said from my side.

author: Furna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 09:44:02 pm
content: Still I miss the reasoning of fingerpointing a person when you want to suggest R&S Marketing dept a better communicaton strategy :-)Enough for everyone I guees.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2024, 11:02:42 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 11, 2024, 09:05:18 pmDO NOT put words in my mouth!!!Nowhere did I say that the laws and regulations are secret, nor that the government has forced them to not talk about the law/regulation.What I said is that the laws/regulations may restrict access to information. As in technical information. The law/regulation is not the “information” here.(I will note that there are examples of secret government orders that prohibit disclosure of said order. That isn’t conspiracy theory, it’s established law in many countries. Look at public libraries and telecom/online service providers in USA andwarrant canaries. I am not suggesting that is the case here, though we can’t rule it out 100%.)Though I generally disagree with it,* many, many companies have policies of basically not explaininganything. And legally, they don’t owe it to us (unless part of a lawsuit, in which case it may be subpoenaed). It’s entirely possible, and IMHO likely, that export restrictions of some kind are the root cause here, but it’s up to the company to decide whether or not to explain what the cause is.Also, do not underestimate the extent to which many companies apply those same principleswithin. Not only do higher-ups withhold information from customers, many withhold it from their own employees. When I worked at the “fruit stand” years ago, and people asked us “when’s the new  coming out?”, I was able to answer in complete honesty “I have no idea, we find out the same time you do”, because that is exactly how it worked. A lot of people seem to think that everyone in a company is equally informed on everything, but that is far from the truth, especially in large ones. R&S isn’t the size of the “fruit company”, but it’s not a little family-owned small business, either. They have around 13,000 employees, which means many divisions and many layers of management. And since some of those divisions do stuff that is defense-adjacent, I’d be very surprised if there weren’t specific regulations in place that affect certain operations.Another reason companies keep quiet is to make sure nobody accidentally makes a statement that has legal repercussions. That is one reason many companies give their employees specific phrases to use when answering certain questions, because answering the wrong way would create liability of some sort. (For example, that is why AppleCare is not an “extended warranty”, but a “protection plan”, because apparently calling it a warranty would have some legal repercussions. Don’t ask me what they are, as I don’t know, and I’m not a lawyer anyway.) It’s also why many companies funnel all press inquiries to dedicated spokespersons and prohibit employees from talking to the press without prior permission. It’s also why many chain stores expressly prohibit employees (including store managers!) from posting any signage or documentation other than what is provided by corporate or required by law.*I say “generally” and not “completely” because I have had enough customer- and user-facing work to experience firsthand how some people will take whatever totally reasonable explanation you give them and then twist your words and try to use it against you. It’s exhausting and time-consuming, and generally goes nowhere as their opinion is already formed and immutable, so I totally understand why many companies choose to just say nothing. Your own behavior in this thread actually kinda steps into that territory, as evidenced by you trying to twist my words into things they did not say.

author: gburdzin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 12:55:25 pm
content: Over the weekend I tried to download the user manual for the NGM202 so that I could get a better idea of its features before potentially purchasing it. So I ended up filling out the registration information, but then got a response that I needed "approval" for the download.I've never experienced having to get approval for the download of a bloody user manual before.And then the best part...Monday morning in my work email inbox..."Rejection of Your Request for Access". Thanks R&S, I guess I won't be considering the NGM202 for purchase any longer.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 01:05:51 pm
content: @gburdzin: Farnell is one of their dealers and they have 16 documents for the NGM202 available for download, including the manual.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 09:34:00 pm
content: Can they be trusted to host the latest firmware and manual in a timely manner though?

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 10:31:53 pm
content: No.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 11:34:33 pm
content: Just updated the firmware on one of my R&S PSU's and had to register my company to get it. They asked for the company name which was searched for on the Dun & Bradstreet I think it was. Not sure what happens if your company isn't listed there?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 01:39:49 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 16, 2024, 11:34:33 pmIt seems they deny any requests without at least a D&B number.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 01:43:55 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on December 17, 2024, 01:39:49 amIf so, that's brutal. People will be getting thier firmware from a guy in an alley way in a trench coat.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 01:55:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 17, 2024, 01:43:55 amGot all your Siglent stuff up to date ?https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 02:13:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 17, 2024, 01:43:55 amThat sounds like a fun side gig. 🤔

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 08:57:36 am
content: Quote from: Hydron on December 16, 2024, 09:34:00 pmWhy not? If they are appointed dealership and are responsible for delivering documentation and firmware, they might lose their dealership if they don't comply.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 08:59:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 16, 2024, 11:34:33 pmIt's quite easy to get your company registered at D&B. I once went through that process to be able to supply products to the USCG.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 09:22:06 am
content: Quote from: mhsprang on December 17, 2024, 08:57:36 amImagine the work that might add if you were a multi-brand dealer.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 10:33:38 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 17, 2024, 09:22:06 amThe manufacturer may reduce the dealer price in return for the exta work? Or should dealers just sit still and earn their money for just doing that?

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 02:32:57 pm
content: Yeah well no firmware for the RTB2004 on Farnell site (at least for the 3 different SKUs I checked) so the answer is no, they cannot be trusted to have up to date info.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 02:44:28 pm
content: Exactly. The answer to "can distributors be trusted to keep docs/fw up to date" is simply and precisely "no." Any words said in addition to "no" make us less accurate, not more accurate.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 03:04:24 pm
content: But we still do not know why the information is no longer available at R&S and we haven't seen any formal answer or statement as to why this is and if R&S now wants their dealers to be responsible. So, for now this is all speculation.I have just sent an e-mail to customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com:Dear Madam, Sir,Over the last couple of years I purchased three R&S devices and I have registered an account on your web site to be able to download firmware updates.Since November however, I am no longer able to download of even check for firmware updates. If I log in, I get a screen with a button I need to click to "update my account data to be able to gain access". I have now tried this 5 or 6 times, and each time my request is rejected.I inquired about this using your Contact form, but I have never received a reply. I hope to get a reply through this channel as to why I no longer have access to firmware and documentation.Best regards,MeindertI am a business with a valid business e-mail and a D&B registration. Let's hope I get an answer this time.

author: barrds
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2024, 04:30:13 pm
content: It took Farnell more than a month to send me the firmware for my RTM3004 !.Great service from the R&S distributor.And... the best of all, every time there is a new release we have to request the service of these people.Seems to be that R&S is only interested in our money...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2024, 04:47:45 pm
content: Quote from: barrds on December 27, 2024, 04:30:13 pmMaybe you had no other option but Farnell (and similar companies) would be the last place I'd buy test equipment from as these companies are all about shuffling boxes back & forth without any knowledge of the contents. Good enough to buy parts from but things that need support not so much.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2024, 04:52:10 pm
content: I got nowhere clicking on the button to request access on the R&S website. I waited many weeks, and reattempted, and still got nowhere. Eventually I raised a case, and they sorted it within a week.I think all businesses that possibly need access, should immediately assign at least one person to chase this up to completion, so that the business isn't left stranded if any of their engineers desperately needs access at short notice, i.e. they always have at least one person to turn to within their firm in an urgent unexpected situation. Definitely not ideal, but is a semi-practical solution until this is made more efficient.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2024, 05:08:22 pm
content: I raised a query with R&S over a possible bug in the NGM-202. Short reply from them informing me they had closed the support call, and I should contact Farnell instead - which is where I bought it. So raised a query with Farnell, have to see what happens next.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2024, 05:53:51 pm
content: this type of crap will just lead to technical sites in asia/eastern-europe mirroring stuff.firmware dumps and dissassembly's included - and keygens - EVERYTHING the site owners can associate with the products.i know this because it has already happened with ham radio and sattelite recievers - among other stuff.

author: barrds
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2024, 06:03:39 pm
content: You're right, I didn't have other option.BTW, just a few seconds ago I was able to download the latest firmware (2.5 Gbytes !) for the MXA N9020A spectrum analyzer from the Keysight website without any problems, just giving them the same private email I used with R&S, and my first and last names.What a difference !

author: tomasA
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2024, 10:07:03 am
content: I recently got the MXO4 and have the same software issues. Still waiting for my account to get "upgraded" to have access to any firmware/driver updates.

author: dc2light
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 03:36:12 am
content: Been following this thread. All very odd.Same issue here. Multiple pieces of gear all purchased new within the past few years. Still able to sign into Gloris and view all the latest available software and firmware updates.When trying to download anything, even a manual I am redirected to the Premium Content page. Can't log in there. Denied access multiple times after submitting requests and contacting support told to ask my distributor. I reached out to one of my distributors and after a month I have had no resolution. This is really hard to believe. If this is not resolved soon it will be the last R&S equipment I will purchase.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 11:41:46 am
content: Quote from: dc2light on January 12, 2025, 03:36:12 amDid you contact them at customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com? I did and three days later they confirmed that I had access again.Meindert

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2025, 03:25:06 pm
content: customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com also gave me the documents and firmware I needed before I was fully approved in the system. It's definitely worth an ask.

author: dc2light
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 13, 2025, 12:03:26 pm
content: Thanks for your responses. Hmm, I am not sure if I contacted them from that email address. Possibly through he contact link on the website.Well, I'll gave it one more try at the customersupport@rohde-schwarz.com address and will report back.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2025, 04:39:19 pm
content: Quote from: dc2light on January 13, 2025, 12:03:26 pmAh, yes. That contact link or form... I tried that too. That never resulted in a reply.

author: nicnac117
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2025, 11:18:30 am
content: Anyone know where the RTB2 V 3 can be found ? ........ XDEVs does not have it on his FTP .

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2025, 11:19:51 am
content: Quote from: nicnac117 on March 14, 2025, 11:18:30 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg5847303/#msg5847303I just uploaded it to xdevs ftps. it should be uploaded to /docs within a few weeks.

author: craigus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 10:25:57 am
content: The BS canned response from R&S support I got today:QuoteMy guess is they got some new MBA moron running support now.I can't imagine they're doing badly financially and trying to save money by cutting support, as why would they invest the development time to put firmware and docs behind a lock and key.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 12:28:56 pm
content: Reply and point out this little gem from their website...Yet still today their website says:"This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions,especially students, hobbyistsand engineers working in environments with limited space.".

author: InductorX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 02:59:05 pm
content: I registered with a business email just last week and was given access for downloading firmware, it's weird that apparently it's quite random, or maybe it's only existing accounts that can't/won't be upgraded? I'm inclined not to buy any R&S stuff anymore now.

author: Ecogeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 09:45:23 pm
content: Agree, R&S seemed to have gone out of their way to annoy as many customers as possible. I also agree they must have a new "business" manager who needs to be shown the door before the person does any more damage.

author: eleguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2025, 11:08:55 am
content: Quote from: InductorX on March 18, 2025, 02:59:05 pmYes indeed very random. We already once got the access but it seems to be now taken away.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 05:46:27 pm
content: Hello,I can't get an updated manual or the latest firmware from Rohde & Schwarz for my RTA4000 purchased in 2019 for almost 12500 €.They wrote me:"We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements.If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to Customer Support for assistance.We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your interest.Best regards,Rohde & Schwarz"Best regardsegonotto

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 05:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 21, 2025, 05:46:27 pmI find this phrase pretty sad... and I didn't spend $12.5k...

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 06:22:57 pm
content: I would at least reply that apparently you did meet the necessary requirements to purchase a device for €12.500. And ask them how you will now obtain firmware updates.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 06:26:10 pm
content: Which firmware version do you need? The latest on the R&S website is V1.700, dated 19 December 2021.

author: Krotow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 06:37:08 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on March 18, 2025, 12:28:56 pmTalking about hypocrisy... Still curious which kind of hobbyists and students might be their customer base. I think no lower than Bruce Wayne, because regular hobbyists and students earn way less to afford something from R&S. Mentioned FPL1003 cost more than my current car when it was new.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 06:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: mhsprang on March 21, 2025, 06:26:10 pmHello,thanks, my RTA4000 has firmware 01.700. So it could be that I already have the latest firmware.Best regardsegonotto

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 07:06:54 pm
content: Hi Egonotto, Ah, bummer. I could have downloaded it for you though.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 07:44:10 pm
content: Hello,thank you, I have now received the user manual version 9. I probably also have the latest firmware 01.700.Too bad Rohde & Schwarz didn't give it to me.What I also noticed is that the noise values for the RTA4000 in the 2024 data sheet are worse than in the 2019 data sheet.RMS noise floor at 1 MΩ (meas.)1 mV/div 500 MHz 1 MOhmold: 0.13 mV new: 0.17 mV1 V/div 500 MHz 1 MOhmold: 45.6 mV new: 60 mVBest regardsegonotto

author: hfleming
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 08:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: Krotow on March 21, 2025, 06:37:08 pm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 10:01:28 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 21, 2025, 05:46:27 pmIn Australia you could report them to consumer affairs and they would have to give it to you.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 10:32:54 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2025, 10:01:28 pmAnd they'll say it's a business transaction, not consumer.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2025, 11:26:27 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 21, 2025, 10:32:54 pmNot in Australia:https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guaranteesBusinesses get the same protections for products up to a significant $$$ value.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 12:59:46 am
content: Quote from: Someone on March 21, 2025, 11:26:27 pmNo. Read more carefully. An oscilloscope is not a device which falls under the category of household items.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 02:52:26 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2025, 12:59:46 amThe site specifies "Personal or household use." Lots of personals buy oscilloscopes.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 05:43:36 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2025, 12:59:46 amyour interpretation is failing, not mine.Lets take a quote from that specifically linked page:QuoteMy claim that business purchases are protected the same as consumers up to $$$ value, is pretty much exactly what the responsible authority says.Not sure how much clearer it can be? Do love your dismissal with zero explanation, avoiding anyone possibly addressing your imagined point... do come back with some completely out of context "but but but I'm right" and we'll all have a laugh.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 07:55:57 am
content: I think the problem is even simpler for R&S if they'd have to explain in a court of law why they think business customers have more rights to updates than private customers. Even if they say they let their dealers be responsible for that, if said dealers do no take that responsibility R&S have to step up to the plate.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 10:33:57 am
content: Quote from: hfleming on March 21, 2025, 08:29:36 pmPlease learn how to use quoting correctly, and fix your reply above.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 10:57:11 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 22, 2025, 02:52:26 amYou are not going to win that semantic discussion in court for sure. It is possible that there is a list and/or clearer definition somewhere in the law and/or previous court cases which describes the exact meaning of items / products for personal or household use. Oscilloscopes and test equipment in general won't be among that.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 11:14:59 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2025, 10:57:11 amMaybe test equipment is not yet among it, I would not be so sure a judge nowadays does not make it part of it.There is a general tendancy to protect ‘the customer’.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2025, 11:45:47 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2025, 10:57:11 amPerhaps the sky is green? or perhaps you could actually read the legislation you think might possibly support your claim....https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2004A00109/latest/text/4Quote from: Competition and Consumer Act 2010, Volume 4, Chapter 1, Section 3So still wrong, and now relying on imagining a different reality where the laws (you claimed to know but didn't bother to read) are different to this world. Goods are covered regardless of its intended distinction between consumer or business supply (as in clause 2) if any of the other clauses apply. No need to argue on that distinction when you only need to fulfil one of the clauses of subsection 1.Which is what I said from the start:Quote from: Someone on March 22, 2025, 05:43:36 am... and as predicted you're off onto a completely different point trying to hold onto the "but but but I'm right"

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:32:50 pm
content: Hello,I contacted Rohde & Schwarz again after I had received the rejection from Rohde & Schwarz and before I had received the current manual from friendly people.I asked how I could get the data I wanted and whether I could still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices.Today I received an answer. The requested files were sent to me by e-mail.Thank you for that.I was also told that Rohde & Schwarz no longer sells directly to private individuals, but that I can still buy Rohde & Schwarz devices via Batronix, for example.Best regardsegonotto

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 06:44:48 pm
content: "Please note: The Product Downloads Center is exclusively available for accounts with a corporate email address.""We regret to inform you that your request to access "Product Downloads" could not be granted because your profile does not meet the necessary requirements."Registered with company email, denied. Company was in the D&B list on the site, so that alone isn't enough. There is some sort of manual verification taking place after you apply, probably in the German time zone.Trying again now with another company email domain.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:23:16 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 25, 2025, 02:32:50 pmNo surprise there, very common in the industry.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:28:44 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2025, 12:59:46 amNo way you wouldn't win that one in Australia, our consumer protection laws are one of the strictest in the world.If you legally purchased the product in Australia as an individual and the company refuses to give you support because you aren't a business, they will lose.The only way they could possibly weasle oiut of this is if the authorised distrubutor who you bought it from had a very specific policy and vetter sales to professional business customers only.If they let you just freely buy as a consumer then you are covered under consumer law.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:37:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 30, 2025, 09:23:16 amAnd according to R&S policy, Batronix would then be responsible for publishing manuals and firmware updates. But there's nothing to be found there. Neither at Farnell.com, who also sell R&S.

author: mhsprang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:39:01 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 28, 2025, 06:44:48 pmI had the same problem: company and all. Official domain. D&B registration. No joy at R&S. So I wrote to them at their support e-mail and someone fixed it.

author: rwhale
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 11:31:17 pm
content: Sounds like the problem I had with KS. My E4404b (Which I bought new from them with most options) needed a new memory/battery. I thought ah, I'll just order it from their web store and be done. Nope. Wouldn't sell it to me because of my email address. I appealed, still nope. Bought it from Digikey for much less. All they dis is insure I'll never buy another instrument from them again. Yet, they still send me emails trying to sell me new equipment...at the same address. Go figure.Russ

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 12:00:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 30, 2025, 09:28:44 amWell, the context was buying as a business which also tends to fall under consumer law when the conditions apply. But -surprisingly- the conditions are ORed instead of ANDed. There is a very high monetary limit (40k AUD or something) OR the item has to be a household item OR -some other conditions-. Read it quickly and it makes more logical sense to interpret the conditions as ANDed because who is going to buy a 40k AUD coffee maker?

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 12:42:03 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2025, 12:00:32 amWell, it also starts with "A person..." Is a company a person, as opposed to merely a legal entity, in this context?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 01:35:16 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2025, 12:00:32 amI'm sure more than you'd expect. 😉

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:19:01 am
content: Quote from: bson on April 01, 2025, 12:42:03 amAh, that old chestnut:https://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/01/07/are-corporations-people-in-the-carpool-lane/https://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/01/can-you-carpool-with-a-corporation.html

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 02:48:23 pm
content: Can someone with premium R&S access check what is the newest FW version for HMP4000 PSU? And download FW with release notes if it is newer than 2.72 (2.72_5800.4292.00), thanksLink:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/firmware/hmp4000/

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 04:02:25 pm
content: Nope, still just 2.72

author: RAQU_PL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2025, 02:25:48 pm
content: Can someone with premium R&S access check what is the newest FW / SW for RTO1000 and FSV4? My current is 3.70.1.0 for RTO and 3.10 SP2 for FSV.Thanks.

author: chilternview
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2025, 02:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: RAQU_PL on June 04, 2025, 02:25:48 pm3.70.1.0 is the latest for the RTO1000 which it says is a discontinued product. Couldn't find any firmware/software for FSV4.

author: RAQU_PL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2025, 02:52:19 pm
content: Just for FSV no results as well?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2025, 03:25:34 pm
content: Quote from: RAQU_PL on June 04, 2025, 02:52:19 pmV3.70 from 2020 is the latest for FSV.

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:08:40 am
content: Seems like R&S have relaxed their restrictions a bit.I can now at least look at the manuals and datasheets of the devices I own.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:32:50 am
content: Quote from: goaty on July 03, 2025, 09:08:40 amMust be a german freebie...

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 10:51:01 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 03, 2025, 09:32:50 amNot the Firmware/Software and related PDFs I guess, but I was previously pissed that you cant´t even look at the manuals,and that´s working now, even for MXO4.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 10:51:56 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 03, 2025, 09:32:50 amgoaty said they could look at themanuals and datasheets. Why don’t you try looking at a manual or datasheet, not release notes for a firmware update. (Release notes aren’t a manual and aren’t a datasheet.)

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 11:15:06 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 03, 2025, 10:51:56 amThanks. You're right. I'm able to access the manuals and/or datasheets.

author: sbrunner
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 06:26:58 pm
content: I am highly annoyed with R&S to the point to no longer consider them as a vendor. We are a HW developer in the solar space, and not even we have access to firmware of devices that we own. I had opened three support cases, each closed with reference to talk to Distributor. Unfortunately, TEquipment knows nothing about support for R&S. So much time wasted. Arrogant German company!

author: sbrunner
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 06:36:56 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 28, 2025, 06:44:48 pmSame here. We are a small power electronics developer out of the university spectrum. Delaware company registered with D&B - still declined. Opened three tickets - with the same results. Owning R&S gear becomes a liability, at least for startups.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 06:40:25 pm
content: I made an attempt from friends company manufacturing electronics here and they declined a company limited anyway their system is using some kind of external database that friends company was shown in but still declined. They were to call to central in Germany but I dunno if they already made that call as it was not a priority matter.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 06:59:33 pm
content: Maybe go tohttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/about/trade-shows/emc-europe-trade-shows-detailpage_229402-1567569.html?mid=27833&midx=emceurope_____nl1and ask some searching questions about support

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 07:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: sbrunner on July 25, 2025, 06:36:56 pmTheir ticket system is flaky. Try emailing support@rohde-schwarz.com with your account email and company info, and they'll take care of you. Let them know what happened with their ticket system too.I assure you my company is smaller, and I have full access.Thanks,Josh

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 07:12:31 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 25, 2025, 07:02:29 pmI wrote to that address, and I never got a reply.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 07:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on July 25, 2025, 07:12:31 pmDid you ever follow up? I had no issue with their email, but their stupid ticket system denied me despite having had my D&B info, which I had to resubmit to their email support.