How the energy crisis will affect your own metrology lab ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 01:58:11 am
content: I guess all already aware and also from medias, especially in EU countries, the energy crisis is coming.Especially in the upcoming winter.Do you have any consideration, anticipation or plan on this matter especially at your lab's stuff ?Or no plan at all and just let it be ?Really love to hear your own plan or story if any.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 04:54:51 am
content: I am a high electricity user what with a web and email server, UPS etc not to mention I spend a lot of time in there......so I have been tweaking things trying to optimize as much as possible.On thing I did was modify the control system which runs my radiator heating and the HVAC fan/cooler.It's a home built control system run by a VB app on my web server, so I modified it to only allow the full cooling mode of the HVAC when my 4kW solar PV system is generating enough power to run the HVAC cooling mode for free as that mode draws quite a bit of power.......otherwise it drops to fan mode only.Seems to work ok, and if it does get too hot in there if say it gets cloudy then I open the door of the workshop!Ian.

author: ch_scr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 07:16:58 am
content: This is tangentally related, regarding pc power consumption in general:If you have old LCD / IPS monitors with CCFL backlight, these take 60-70W for a 24" model. In comparison a modern LED backlit 27" 4k monitor takes 20W.I wasn't really aware of this, but this might make quite the difference if you have a few of them.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 07:49:59 am
content: My electricity bill has been negative, since I put up my solar panels.I guess it will be more negative.

author: DH7DN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 08:39:51 am
content: - I try to disable unnecessary thermal loads (computers, monitors, lights, lasers, power amplifiers, oscilloscopes, test equipment) in an air-conditioned lab. This helps to save few bucks because air conditioning is really expensive. Some labs turn off the air conditioning during holidays completely or use them occasionally on "hot days" during summer time. During winter time, it's easier to heat a lab room than to cool it.- I look for air leaks in our compressed air supply (some air leaks cannot be avoided but mitigated, air bearings for example). I turn the valve off if a component is not in use. Compressed air is very expensive- I don't want to power-cycle DMMs (HP 3458A, PXI systems) or delicate hardware -- it would be "impolite"-- so this one is a money sink for a reason- I use a notebook/laptop in combination with a docking station for daily work instead of a 6-10 years old stationary office PC- Power saving modes... deactivated on a measurement PC, office PCs have the power saving profile turned onUnfortunately we have no access to a electricity counter and we can't check how much electrical energy we have consumed. It would be important to take serious actions and measure its success. Otherwise it's all just "well-intentioned efforts".At home: I would like to get rid of my fridge but it's nearly impossible. I've increased the temperature from 4 °C up to 6 °C but it's just not enough for significant energy savings.I'm living to a nearby shopping center so buying fresh stuff and consuming it directly afterwards would be an option.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 11:08:02 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on July 11, 2022, 04:54:51 amIan, thats for hot summer, how about the upcoming winter ? I assume you need to maintain good enough temperature stability for your voltage references ? At least in your DMMs ?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 11:09:02 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on July 11, 2022, 07:49:59 amGreat to hear the negative bill !Also in winter ?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 11:13:49 am
content: Quote from: DH7DN on July 11, 2022, 08:39:51 amOne of the reason I had in mind creating this thread in this metrology section is the high digits DMMs such as HP 3458A, of course didn't mention in the OP as not everyone has it.Whats your plan in this upcoming winter, if the energy problem especially in home heating persist or even getting worst.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 11:45:21 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 11, 2022, 11:09:02 amWe have net metering with a yearly billing cycle.Which will gradually decrease to power purchase agreement over the next few years. Or something like that, they are still working on it.I just wanted to point out, that maybe the solution is not to reduce the usage.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 02:42:25 pm
content: Well if you live in a cold climate and have generally cheap electricity, what does it matter if the lab helps keep the house warm? Serious question, this seems like a non problem to me.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 11:28:48 pm
content: With enough high end equipment problem is usually opposite, as of summer hot month will need aircon running all the time to keep hobby labs at +23C-ish. Winter is my happy season, when all aircons are fully off, no rogue cycling airflows, and gear just keeps room at nice 21-23C by itself. If it getting to cold in February I just turn on few high speed Tektronix oscilloscopes and Fluke 5725 amplifier to get extra kilowatt of heating...High precision warmers.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2022, 06:20:07 am
content: I guess most volt nutters are relatively rich and the billing either on electricity or nat.gas are not significant.I have a friend in Sweden, complaining to me that currently his electricity bill exploded > 10 times compared to last year at the same period, let alone the natural gas that will be used for heating in this near winter which is about to get crazier.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2022, 08:25:48 am
content: Quote from: TiN on July 11, 2022, 11:28:48 pmA reasonable working airconditioning should still need less electric power than the cooling power. So it only adds some percentage (like 30%) to the electricy needed for the instruments. It is more like heat though the windows and roof that heats up the rooms and needs the extra electricty for aircon. In winter the heat from the instruments is not 100% waste and still helps heating.Usually the electricty costs are still only a relatively small part of the overall costs - the trouble may be more with an increasing chance for a blackout and maybe power surges.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2022, 09:13:20 am
content: Quote from: on July 12, 2022, 08:25:48 amGovernment officials are starting to talk publicly about the possibility of rolling blackout at some EU countries in winter.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2022, 07:31:53 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 11, 2022, 11:08:02 amMy workshop is quite small so the webserver/UPS etc provide a good amount of ambient heat for the space......so when it is 0degC outside I usually get around 15degC in the workshop with no other heating.......so this is where the radiator kicks in to top up the temperature.Saying that, 24/7 23degC is a thing of the past at the moment due to soaring energy prices here in the UK........so my 3458A etc is usually switched off.I have been applying to the local council to get permission for a small wind turbine to supplement my solar PV syetem......so far they are saying "no"......but I keep trying!Ian.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2022, 01:43:25 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on July 12, 2022, 07:31:53 pmWhy they rejected it ? if you don't mind.If approved, please, share and vblog your journey on that wind turbine project.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2022, 06:38:55 am
content: IanJ, but 3458W eats ~30W so does it really makes a that much difference?

author: Zenwizard
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2022, 04:00:35 pm
content: For me I have a TEDhttps://www.theenergydetective.com/I can give metrics for some of the loads in the lab. I have some of the critical devices on UPS units like the Rubidium and GPDSO. I do not have anything high accuracy voltages yet so I do not need to worry about power up time with them. I do shut most of the lab down at night and dont let everything run constently.I have virtualised everything server related in to ESXi and only have 2 switches 1 POE switch running the Wifi AP's and a file server running 24-7 There are 2 higher end workstation powered off when not need that run the lab but the bench computer is a SFF dell. Also the lab is 100% LED lighting to keep the cost down. The server rack is about a 400 watt consent draw. I have 80 Amps of 120Vac in the lab for the bench 4X 20 Amp circuits. but these are no here near capacity. I have the current transformers that I can add to the lab so I can monitor the 4 lab circuits but I do not have them installed yet. BY FAR my power burn is running the RAID arrays that make up the lab there are 4 arrays consisting of about 28 individual spinning disks in total I am sure this is where a lot of my Watts are going.File server 12 drives RAID 6ESX host 8 drives RAID 10Workstation 1 4 drives RAID 10Workstation 2 4 Drives RAID 10Zen

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2022, 04:53:12 pm
content: Today's the hottest day in Germany, so far.The outside thermometer currently reports 34.4°C, weather service DWD even 37°C for the Frankfurt region.My Home-Office on 1stfloor is at 26.4°C, but my lab in the basement has comfortable 21.9°C, w/o any air conditioning, but natural cooling.In winter, the room downstairs will be heated a little bit by our gas heating, to an even more stable 21.5°C.Obviously, Russia will still provide enough gas to our poor country, I never doubted that. Ever heard of the term 'German Angst'?So, no, I don't see any negative impact concerning heating energy.In my lab, I let only my 10 / 11 LTZ references run the whole year. They consume about 22W from 6 linear regulated, wall adaptor supplies.That's not efficient, but SMPSUs would disturb the measurements. So that sums up to about 200kWh/year, 70€, but that's only 5% of our complete consumption.As I'm doing no time-nuttery at the moment, I have shut off recently my HP5335A, as its OCXO consumes another 7W.Btw, by replacing all incandescent lights with LEDs, and switching off our freezer, I saved about 10% electrical energy each of the last years already.I only switch on the other instruments, when needed, i.e. the 3458A, 5442A, the old WIN 98 PC, an old fluorescent lamp (due to EMC as well), mostly once a month.That saves energy, money, and lifetime of the 3458As ELANTEC OpAmps. Deeper background is, that I don't regard the 3458A as a standard instrument which should always run, and in contrary, its internal LTZ, as well as the SZA263s inside the 5442A, are probably much more stable this way.So, no I don't fear any electrical energy problem as well, as the highly qualified Green Party of our government will for sure re-activate our brown coal driven power plants, as well our 3 remaining nuclear power plants. In case of Black-Outs, two of my references are battery-bridged, for about 12h, or 84h, respectively.Off topic addition:In this diagram, you can see, that the basement maintains a very constant temperature over the whole year, between 21.5°C and up to 23.5°C during the few really hot days here.Of course, I will favorably do my measurements, when it's too hot outside, or in my room upstairs. Best place to stay thereThe other diagrams demonstrate, that the R.T. is constant to +/- 0.2°C over weeks. That's great for making unassisted 24h stability measurements. The power dissipation of the instruments (about 150W or so) might first increase R.T., but then stay constant.The 3rd diagram shows the operator influence, i.e. about +1°C, when I'm sitting in front of my instruments (+100W) plus the fluorescent lamp (+36W).That's a manageable problem, as the 3458A will heat up by about 0.5°C @ 0.4ppm/K only for a complete 30min long scan of my references.Maybe others also monitor their room or instrument temperatures, and might share their experience with air conditioned labs, and manual operations.Frank

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 04:08:00 am
content: Dr. Frank, really appreciate the details shared.Looks like you got everything covered well, including black outs.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2022, 06:24:13 pm
content: For winter I'm switching to wood pellet heated zener referencesElectricity prices have gone trough the roof in last 6 months even tho electricity is cheap in here compared to Germany and UK for example

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 04:40:23 am
content: Quote from: mzzj on July 20, 2022, 06:24:13 pmThere, you just invented similar to audiophoolery in voltnuttery.Quote from: mzzj on July 20, 2022, 06:24:13 pmHope this will get better, as according to both countries officials, situation looks grim and probably will get worst.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 03:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: shodan@micron on July 21, 2022, 09:49:54 amFCXO or Furnace Controlled Crystal Oscillator

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 06:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: TiN on July 13, 2022, 06:38:55 amJust at the moment anyways, till i get a handle on my electricity consumption.The ambient power consumption for the entire house including workshop is no less than 350W (i.e. through the night), obviously up from that as I turn on stuff.My electricity bill would scare you......Ian.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 06:40:45 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 13, 2022, 01:43:25 amI wanted the turbine 5m high, they said no.They also said the 'noise' from the blades etc would be too much.I will be applying again soon.....Ian.

author: try
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 07:20:30 pm
content: I work in a long distance heated building that is part of critical infrastructure. In case of a power outage I will simply move one voltage reference to my workplace trying to avoid the disconnection of power of my reference or any thermal shock. I already recorded a 3 year drift history and the annual drift does not vary a lot until now.In a blackout scenario we simply shutdown 2/3 of our total electrical loads. As most people will stay at home in winter the realized load on our system will be much lower than anticipated pre Covid one and the fuel supply will last longer.What really matters is the question if the fuel supplier will be able to meet his contractual delivery obligations in a possible blackout scenario this winter.

author: 5065AGuru
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2022, 09:49:20 pm
content: Well as a time nut I have a 5061B in standby, a Kvarz Maser in standby, as well as two rack mount OCXOs two HP5065A, an Hp 53131A, two GPS Disciplined oscillators, and a DMTD system with laptop running continuously.I am blessed with living in Lompoc CA. Our house is aligned with the prevailing on shore wind and cracking the garage door a bit and opening the rear patio door provides free AC for most of the year! Right now outside it's 55 Deg F and a high of 74 Deg F is forecast. Not like most of the rest of the country which is suffering a heat wave! So cooling power is not a driver but all the running stuff is!Cheers,Corby