Laser or good quality Inkjet Printer in 2021? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2021, 09:19:56 am
content: The last printer I brought was about 6 years ago and the Canon Pixma MG7160 has served me well under light duty (maybe 500 pages a year at a guess) and one of the things I use a fair bit is the flat bed scanner end of it. Ink usage on it has been good unlike the bottom of the barrel inkjets.However it is dying and a good clean of everything and I am still getting error issues so I am calling it dead or close to it.Tempted to have a go at a colour Laser maybe or do I just go back and buy another good Inkjet? Scanner is more or less essential too.Sensible sub $3-400 USD or even less options for home/shack use?

author: gmb42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2021, 10:17:13 am
content: I'm also a happy (Windows) user of Canon printers for a long time. I have a MG5500 inkjet, mainly for the scanner but also used for odd things where inkjet just seems to be better, and a recently purchased LBP663C laser for speed and longer print jobs and I'm happy with both. The 663 replaced a LBP 5050 that was fine, but started showing signs of needing the imaging drum to be replaced and the Canon cashback offer on the 663 at the time made it a no-brainer .The Canon scanner software "Image Garden" isn't the most usable piece of software, but I know how to drive it and I'm happy with the results.

author: iJoseph2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2021, 11:08:55 am
content: I've got an Oki MC363 multifunction which I am very happy with. It can scan to USB stick (so it's an independent scanner) and I like how it retains the scanner settings as default and you can twiddle with on an ad-hoc job then go back to defaults when you finished. Can do photocopying as an independent machine. And it's a colour "laser" (actually LED) printer. I'm on Fedora 33 and the driver has all the options when you give it the PPD file.However - consumables are VERY expensive. Especially if you only print one page at a time (I think single page print jobs count as three drum rotations so it's better when it's a multi-page print job).So I have a second laser printer a my main work horse printer - a 20 year old HP 4100. Although mine has issues jamming (I think related to spring tension on one of the flags and/or a roller issue in the page registration assembly - I'll have another look at it one day but it works well enough for now). On Fedora 33 the postscript driver has all the features but can be very very slow to print, but the CUPS driver is pretty quick.

author: fordem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 01:09:28 am
content: I suggest you look at the cost of consumables - lasers generally have the lowest cost per page, but the highest "unit cost" for consumables, and in my experience, unless you need laser quality color for business presentations or similar, it's hard to justify the expense of a color laser.I should mention here that as a warranty support tech, I rarely buy printers, but I do have to pay for consumables, and I have had multiple, fully functional color lasers lying idle on the shelf, whilst doing all of my color printing on a business grade inkjet - my black & white print needs were handled on a black laser which I paid for.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 09:39:14 am
content: I prefer lasers because I print things so seldomly that inkjet stuff is prone to clogging or drying up. A couple years service out of the starter cartridges of a cheapish color laser is fine, and then you buy a new one instead of replacing the toner :-(Second choice is the inkjets with the print head built into the cartridges, so if they do get clogged, you can make a valiant attempt to clean them at only “moderate” cost.I’ve been optimizing “has refillable and/or cheap 3rd party ink/toner” over quality for a few generations now; not sure what the current status is. I’ve noticed quite a few “reduced consumable cost” printers on the market recently...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 10:04:53 am
content: If you are going to get an inkjet get the tank types, at least there the OEM colour is actually worth it, as it is the same price as buying an OEM cartridge, and contains more ink in it than 5 cartridges. Cheaper than colour laser, and the Epson one I bought this month for somebody else actually has good driver support across all OS variants, and still has a driver for XP with it, useful for old systems that need to print, but where OS upgrades are impossible, plus other OS support is reasonable.

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 12:59:55 pm
content: Laser. That's all I've used/bought for the last 10 years at least. I can't image going back to an inkjet.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 01:05:03 pm
content: In my case I guess a Laser won't cost much in consumables but then again neither has the Inkjet.How do Laser consumables go with longer term exposure to the environment with low usage? The Canon to it's credit has until now only needed the odd deep automatic clean and other than that it has always drained the tanks, it has also only ever been fed genuine ink.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 03:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 17, 2021, 09:19:56 amI managed to buy (with cashback + promotion) MFC-L8690CDW for your budget. Before that, similar Samsung brand.Once toners run out, you can decide either try to replace these with cheap clones or a new printer againWhy people still using Inkjets for generic printing? Although I don't mind to have something like imagePROGRAF PRO-300 on my desk

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 03:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on May 18, 2021, 12:59:55 pmI wish there was an affordable laser printer that can do B-size paper.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 04:10:07 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 18, 2021, 01:05:03 pmToner is a very fine plastic powder, not really known for going bad.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 04:11:08 pm
content: I bought a Brother HL-5250DN around 15 years ago. Finally used up the starter cartridge after about 8 years, so obviously I don't print much. Never had any problems with it until I switched to Linux last year. Now it will occasionally be "not found", but a quick power cycle of the printer will fix it.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2021, 02:16:12 am
content: I have a Brother HL-2270DW laser that sits on ethernet and sleeps until I print something. Which is pretty rare. Bought it in 2013. (From Amazon. Just dug up the email receipt. Paid $79.99 for it.) I think I've replaced the toner once. What can I say, I press the print button and it prints. *shrug*Oh, and my wife uses it too - actually she prints quite a bit using it. Typically when her inkjet is having a bad day.

author: iJoseph2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2021, 10:19:22 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on May 18, 2021, 03:55:46 pmApparently my one can do B5 and B6.The question about affordable is another matter - consumables for it are expensive which is why I rarely use the print function on it.https://www.oki.com/eu/printing/products/colour-multifunction/mc300series/mc363dn/specifications/#1

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2021, 10:46:00 am
content: Having a look at the usual Bricks and Mortar big box stores and Lasers (due to the drum) only seem to have single page feed through scanners in the smaller sizes.Anyone got a model with a flat bed scanner and a colour Laser under it I should look at?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 10:21:28 pm
content: I used to like Canon Pixma, but after some issues switched to Epson Worforce WF-7220. It's an inkjet and scanner in A3 format (A3 was a requirement) and does both without fuss. Scanner is platten or ADF and duplex. Printer is multiple trays and duplex.For scanning I use Vuescan on the basis that I don't want to relearn workflows or install more bloat if I change printers or the manufacturer thinks their special software needs 'improving' again. Or they stop supporting W7.We also have a HP laser which is pretty good but never gets used. Takes too long to warm up and the power requirement is much higher than just blasting off a quicky on the inkjet.

author: fordem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 10:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on May 18, 2021, 04:10:07 pmThe toner itself doesn't, but other parts of the cartridge do, ever heard of the "doctor blade"? It's a "wiper", usually made of some sort of elastomer that wipes the excess toner away from the photoconductor ensuring that there is a thin, even coating, they deteriorate over time & do so faster in a hot environment, ruining an otherwise useable cartridge. That plastic powder also absorbs moisture if not properly stored, which is why new toner cartridges come in hermetically sealed bags.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 07:41:59 am
content: Laser unless you are a masochist.Especially no to more expensive "office" inkjets. Went down that route, that was an expensive trip. Printed a few pages with an A3 Epson Workforce. Didn't need to print in a few months. Black ink clogged in little time. Bought a new black cartridge - freaking $130 or so! - didn't help because the printhead is not in that expensive cartridge like in cheap printers, but a separate unit. Tried to unclog the printhead soaking it in IPA. Helped a bit. Wasted 70% of that $130 black ink in self-cleaning program trying to make it usable - to no avail. New printhead costs as much as the printer.A $40 inkjet is fine because it works for at least half a year so maybe if you are able to print 10 pages it's only $4 per page. A $200 "office inkjet" lasts the same half a year so if you print 10 pages it's $20 per page.Inkjet has some sweet spot number of pages per month. Less than that, it gets clogged, more than that it's just slow and expensive.Laser works for low and high volumes and everything inbetween.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 07:53:00 am
content: And I still cant find a Laser with a Flat bed in my priceI had an A3 Canon Inkjet before this one and had a great run from it for 7 or 8 years but I wanted some better prints as it was only 600x600DPI so I brought this next Canon as I no longer needed the A3 really. Two printers for way over 10 years makes the argument for Brand Ink and better end of the market in Inkjets a good thing. My Mother by comparison prints more than I do is on garbage printer number 5 I think because she feeds hers cheap ink and buys them from the 'nice man' at the ink shop

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 08:41:41 am
content: What I've been looking at lately is the HP neverstop laser.Instead of toner carriage, it comes with a small plunger, that has the toner in it.Last time I checked, they didn't have an all in one version. Now they do, so I probably going to order that.Seems more expensive than a regular printer, but after that its like 25 EUR for 2000 pages.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 09:31:58 am
content: QuoteSo that's like 1 cent per page.... that's a lot. I can buy a bottle of toner worth 2-3 refills or around 5k pages for around 5 euro... reset gears for the toner (a Brother printer thing) are around 2-3 euro.If you go with laser, do research on refill and the protections printers may have against refilling - a lot of Samsung, HP and Xerox laser printers have chips on the toner which count the pages and stop you from refilling (you would have to replace the chip on the toner, as the chip kills itself or can't be reset, and chips can be 5-10$ each so not worth it)I have a Brother laser printer, and I quite like it.Before it, I had a Samsung laser printer, and gave it to my sister when i bought the Brother model.There's toner and there's the drum assembly as consumables.The cheap laser printers usually come with around 500-1000 pages worth of starter toner and the retail toners typically have 2-5x the amount of starter pack.The drum on cheap laser printers is usually rated for around 10...20k pages ... when you go over it, you may start to get thin lines or random pixels where the drum surface goes bad, or you may start to have crap on the edges of the paper.My Brother starter toner had around 700 pages worth of toner and the retail toner was for 2000...3000 pages.I refilled the starter toner on my Brother by just adding toner, it keeps saying low toner but continues to print... probably didn't hit the print limit.Some starter toners can be refilled by buying a one time "refill kit" - in the case of Brother printers it's some springs and gears with teeths that are missing from the side of the toner, which are used to reset the page counter.The retail toner either has them or has the option to install those gears and springs so those can be refilled at least a few dozen times.The Samsung toner had no anti-refill protections, just pop a cap and pour toner ... but newer Samsung models are worse, they have a chip which counts and can't be reset... so you have to buy packs of chips from eBay and replace a chip with each refill ... or something like that.Me and my sister probably printed around 5-7k pages on the Samsung printer, and the drum's already gone at it, it prints vertical lines and dirties the edges of the paper, so drum needs to be replaced.... I won't replace it, not worth it. It also had other problems like grabbing 2-3 pages at a time so it made printing double sided documents difficult... had to often reprint some documents because of it.There's some slightly higher end Brother printers (let's say not the 80-100$ but the 150-200$ models) that use a very common toner that's used on multiple models which can be easily refilled... and new drum assemblies are also relatively cheap and as they're used on a lot of their models you know it's gonna be manufactured for at least a few years.You should be aware that there's also LED based printers ... they use leds to fix the toner instead of laser on the drum ... they can be better than laser printers but may have lower dpi (due to fixed number of leds instead of laser).There's also the printers that use wax like ink (you put solid ink blocks in the printer) and the printer melts the block to get liquid ink ... but these printers use a lot of power and you also waste a lot of ink, if you don't print daily.Besides laser, the only printers I'd consider would be those with ink tanks you can fill by pouring ink into the tanks.

author: iJoseph2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 11:20:00 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 22, 2021, 07:53:00 amQuote from: beanflying on May 17, 2021, 09:19:56 amAccording to this page, there is a Colour A4 multifunction "laser" for $429.00 just a bit more than your price range (OKI MC363dn A4 Colour Mfp). I'm not sure how tax works out over there so it may be even more expensive than I realise. Apologies if it's not a good option.https://www.getoki.com.au/oki-multifunction/

author: iJoseph2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 11:24:32 am
content: Quote from: mariush on May 22, 2021, 09:31:58 amSame thing with Oki... I can't remember what the toners do, but the imaging drum has a 1/16amp (I think) Littlefuse fuse which blows on the first power up. Apparently you can get a couple more uses out of the drum by replacing the fuse to reset the counter.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 12:05:36 pm
content: QuoteThat looks interesting!Shame that I'll never buy another HP product again. Maybe when other manufacturers roll out something similar it will be a cool feature.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 12:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: iJoseph2 on May 22, 2021, 11:20:00 amPricing includes our GST. @$429 AUD ($300 USD'ish) and I can live with that 1200x600DPI is a bit average but it ticks most of the other boxes so on the listFormfactor is a bit tall after an inkjet so a change in location minimum would be needed.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 11:02:32 pm
content: It looks like most "laser" printers are LED printers, look for weasel words like "laser class", etc

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2021, 11:48:42 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on May 22, 2021, 09:31:58 amI know its possible to print cheaper, but honestly, I dont think it is worth my time to do that. I print maybe 100-200 pages a year, most of it at work.Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 22, 2021, 12:05:36 pmI kinda feel the same. My parents have a 15 year old Laserjet 1010, that has been working perfectly (well, it cooks the paper a bit, but whatever). Its been downhill with HP since then.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2021, 12:05:52 am
content: Still got a 4Plus, with the rare duplexing unit, which works but leaves a smudge on every page. Had it completely apart and replaced replaceable things, but not managed to resolve it. Can't work up the courage to bin it though, so it's making sure my rack doesn't float off anywhere.