a motor/generator that uses Lenz's Law to assist rotation rather than hinder it. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:23:00 am
content: This is quite amazing, this chap has 3 US patents and he's discovered an astonighingly simple way of using Lenz's Law in a standard generator configuration so that it assists rotation rather than hinders it.In a standard generator config, the magnets sweeping over the coils induce potential and, when a load is attached, the induced magnetic field in the generator coils pushes against magnets that are sweeping into a coil (from the outside toward top dead centre) and pulls on magnets sweeping out, so we are constantly having to pay to fight those forces.This counter-EMF has a finite rise-time (5TC) so what he's done is wound coils of many turns and high inductance, so much so that the rise-time is increased enough so that it's too late to oppose incoming magnets and assists outgoing amgnets.The result is a motor/generator without CEMF!Here's the patent of the effect working a a generator config :https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140111054A1/enHere's the patent for the transformer version of the device :https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140253271A1/enThe transformer is equally ingenious and simple, since all he provides is a larger path for secondary flux so that they don't reflect back to the primary.I posted about this on a physics forum i've been a member of for years and they wouldn't even read the patent! "You can't use Lenz's Law" ! I thought science was about observation, those guys won't even open their eyes.I'm working on a simple version of the device to hold the effect in my hand so to speak

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:38:56 am
content: Do a search for the Patent holders name. Smells like yet another over unityscamhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PerepiteiaEven thoughtfully provided a Youtube platformhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6ZPiUObgaWAyeV3SmUH3mgQuoteLove it he is into Chemtrails for good measure

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 12:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 11:23:00 amIt doesn't work like that.If the windings have high inductance, then the current simply rises more slowly, but will stopand start decreasingas soon as the field reverses, it can't "assists outgoing amgnets". It seems like you are implying the current continues growing in the same direction even after the magnetic field changes direction, which is not correct as scientists would've seen this effect over a century ago when they built bigger electric machines.This is pretty basic physics...

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 12:32:39 pm
content: You can't get a free lunch, however you can reduce its effects if you really needed to scrape out another fraction of a percent.You move any conductor through a magnetic field, you generate a current, this is lenz law, you generate a current across a piece of wire with resistance, you get a voltage, and this is Back EMF Voltage,Now you can fiddle with various factors to get things working your way, but the main issue is the resistance, If you want a motor with no back EMF voltage, well then you need to make the resistance essentially 0, Superconductors can do this, and you get all kinds of fun behaviors with superconducting motors, but as this is not the way you are approaching it, I'm calling Bull.You can tweak motors to have lower back EMF voltages at a given RPM, You cannot magically get above 100% efficiency by using a time delay, There is no clear way that I can see a coil being too slow to reverse polarity, causing a motor to run faster,With 3 phase motors you can do fun things like by knowing the shaft position, keep the applied drive currents 90 degrees out of phase to keep maximum torque, this increases the torque across essentially all of its speed range, but the top speed never changes, as if you speed up a 3 phase motor with a VFD or similar, it reaches a point where the shaft is lagging the drive currents by about 90 degrees naturally due to loading, or other losses, e.g. bearings, So an increase or decrease in frequency, only leads to the motor slowing down, or worse, stalling and vibrating,You can work around this by increasing the drive currents, but eventually coil inductance or even thermal limits of materials stop you from making the thing any faster, and at no point does it make it more efficient than 100%, feedback regulated 3 phase motors are more efficient in general, but no magic number, its just about making the most out of the math.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 12:37:25 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on March 15, 2019, 12:03:29 pmGood point, thanks. In that case the size of the magnet in comparison to the coil assembly must come into play, so if the magnet is about the same diameter as the core then it could be at TDC when the initial CEMF is rising.He has patents so there is obviously something to it, i'm going to build a small, simple version just to see the effect, imagine attaching a load and watching the generator accelerate!

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 12:42:32 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on March 15, 2019, 12:32:39 pmThanks. I'm just too intrigued by the patent and the simplicity of the idea so i have to try it, cheap to try, a high-inductance coil and a small rotor with magnets embedded. If the rotor speed incerases and the input power decreases when attaching a load then something is going on that's at least worth investigating.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 02:58:19 pm
content: This is looking like a great assistive tech for EVs, check the demo :

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 03:25:31 pm
content: "The result is a transformer which displays virtually no primary input current increase from no-load to on-load and an on-load power factor of zero for a purely resistive load."What is this terminology "on-load"? For transformers, the proper term is full load. Is he attempting to confuse us?...........how does one achieve a power factor of zero with a purely resistive load?Also:" The turns ratio displays an “effective magnification” like an impedance transformed by a feedback loop. "Is he talking about the familiar equation Np/Ns = Zp^2/Zn^2

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 03:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 12:37:25 pmYes,of course.Thanks for the laugh.Disclaimer: I have patents, too. I sometimes doubt there's something to them.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 06:52:35 pm
content: Sounds like the usual over-unity nonsense.QuoteThe only "something" is that he paid a fee to the patent office, otherwise it's meaningless.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 10:27:07 pm
content: Surely the patent office doesn't allow impossible devices, and i don't see him claiming more out than in, he says 4x extension for the battery in the test setup in the video.And the principle seems so simple, increase the TC by winding higher-inductance coils (L/R) and the CEMF is retarded enough to assist rotation.I'm going to make a little incarnation of it, can't be too hard to get a small version of the effect going, in just one coil at first.What are the implications of a motor/generator that reverses the armature reaction ?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 10:36:31 pm
content: the patent office does unwillingly allow impossible devices, equally untested and fraudulent devices, You only need to take a peek into the world of audiophiles, to find things that are patented, but not possible,A patent is a method or design, It does not describe a working and proven deviceI look forward to your tests, If you need assistance with designing test methods, I'm willing to help,

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:01:40 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 10:27:07 pmA patented device does not have to work or to do what it claims to do. Obtaining grant of a patent is simply a set of legal hurdles to overcome. The existence of a patent implies nothing about scientific or engineering truth.Claims which are obviously absurd will be rejected, but more subtle absurdities can slip through.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:04:44 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 11:23:00 amYou cannot invent anything new in the field of electromagnetism. The theory is sewn up tight and has no loopholes.If anyone claims something like that seems like magic, then it is magic and will be treated as such.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:05:25 am
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 11:23:00 amPeople don't like to waste their time with crackpot "inventions" and I don't blame them.Wikipedia says: In 2003, Heins filed a patent application in Canada but no patent was granted. Heins also founded Potential Difference Inc, the website of which contains a series of videos of the inventor demonstrating the machine.So, sixteen years and all he has done is videos, smoke and mirrors. What's holding back this great technology? Let me guess. He needs investors?

author: duak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:44:39 am
content: I looked up the transformer patent. It doesn't make too much sense and without a test setup, it's impossible to replicate the claims. I'd bet there's some magnetic saturation (like in a magnetic amplifier) that's giving the appearance of something interesting happening.I looked up the inventor for a C.V. and found this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PerepiteiaAbout patents - I'm co-inventor of a device and have a US patent on it. The device worked and the company I worked for traded the patent to another company. Patents are legal devices that are used by lawyers to try to protect intellectual property. It describes the idea, and it may not actually work or even be possible. BTW, It's not a magic talisman that totally defends the patent holder from any attack. These days, if you want to defend a valuable patent that's being infringed by a major corporation, you'll need about a million to get started. This is speaking from experience from a company that had patents that had to be defended.Homer Simpson said: "Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 02:09:46 am
content: A detailed debunking:http://www.sciscoop.com/perepiteia.pdf

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 08:16:53 am
content: I don't know why people even bother inventing perpetual motion machines because they have been continuously and perpetually invented for several hundred years now.I am truly amazed by how easily people fall for these scams. At any one time there are a bunch of "inventors" scamming the public and it never ends because there is a never ending stream of gullibility flowing. There is one born every minute.Most of these claims are extremely easy to debunk but people justwantto believe. Just like they want to believe in the impossible claims of the latest politician or of their cheating spouse.Electromagnetism and electrical motors are extremely mature and well understood technology. To think the many thousands of engineers who have invented, perfected, designed, built them have overlooked something so obvious and easy to find and which contradicts the most basic laws of physics is just unthinkable and requires extraordinary proof ... which isn't forthcoming.Most of the time the "inventor" doesn't even know what he is really measuring and the observers much less so. It is just bad measuring and bad understanding of what and how is being measured.You could make a similar "invention" with a tunnel diode which exhibits negative resistance in part of its current characteristics. Hey! I increase the current and the voltage decreases! Negative resistance! Free energy! Send me money!Ummmmm ... if you just invented something so revolutionary which is going to make you a millionaire, shouldn't YOU be sending ME money?

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 08:26:32 am
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 10:27:07 pmEven overunity/"free energy" folks have learned that claiming "more out than in" is a non-starter that gets rejected immediately. So they often claim to have a device that is "more efficient" than traditional versions.Steorn made lots of claims about extending battery life, once it became clear that their "non-battery motor" did not work at all. If a motor could create any "regenerative" effect, then you wouldn't need the battery!It's a pity these scammers exist, because the world needs people who genuinely understand electronics and how to make more efficient devices.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:11:15 am
content: Don Lancasterhas been dealing with this kind of stuff for decades but, as he says, it is a big pile of poop and it continuously oozes and leaks from the bottom and has to be shoveled back onto the pile where it belongs. It is a never ending task.People want to believe they can get something for nothing. Hey, I can plug a capacitor into the wall and measure voltage and current and multiply them and (apparently) have some power while the electric energy meter does not move. Send me money so I can develop this revolutionary technology!I mean, really, this "peripiteia" is something which can be demonstrated and proved or disproved in a matter of a few hours and they guy has been messing with his claims for over sixteen years? And there are still people willing to give some consideration to his claims?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:59:52 am
content: Ok.. At its absolute basis, His patent is for a 4 pole Brushed commutator based motor, with enough buzzwords to sound genuine.But his claims get weirder from there, but at its basis, it seems like he is trying to wrap it around the idea of compensation for stator field distortionhttps://wikivisually.com/wiki/Commutator_(electric)And at my best guess this is where his magical 135 degree angle comes from,Next up, he makes claims to a bifilar wound motor, In case you did not know Bifilar winding reduces inductance by cancelling out the majority of the magnetic field generated by a current. however all bifilar winding in a motor would do is make it a resistor, no inductance means no magnetic field, means no turning moment on the motor.And lastly the point he seems to walk around, a motor that increases in speed when loaded, Can they exist, yes, are they usually a desirable characteristic, no, because it would consume a higher Idle current in the field winding, and there are better options, as a motor that accelerated when loaded could approach a bit of a exponential curve where it keeps pulling in more power to deal with the increased drag, most motor field windings work on a negative feedback, So they either regulate to a pretty fixed speed, e.g. shunt wound motors, or regulate to more or less a fixed power draw, e.g. series wound motors, (and some use a centrifugal switch to use shunt to get up to speed which chews a lot of power, then jumps to series when at operating point),And then a bit of drivel about using resonances, is it something you could do, yes, Is it something that would work on a brushed DC motor, across a range of speeds and loads?, NoAnd as an anti-position, If you flip the statement about battery life, Can you easily choose a motor setup that is 4 times worse than your experiment to call it a baseline?, Absolutely!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 07:12:11 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on March 16, 2019, 10:59:52 amThat's called a differential compound motor, and it's usually designed so the speed is kept constant when loaded, by weakening the field proportionally --- but if the field is weakened more than that, you get a motor that speeds up under load. The technology itself is over a century old and has essentially become obsolete.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 06:56:37 am
content: Quote from: newbrain on March 15, 2019, 03:39:39 pmPatented:A method of exercising a cat using a laser pointer

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 07:19:06 am
content: There is a very well known Sail and Kite (surfing) maker who lodged a Patent application for a knot in common usage for Centuries. Patents are only a sign that specialmay lay within the application.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 09:04:29 am
content: Quote from: makerman on March 15, 2019, 11:23:00 amYes, law of conservation of energy says this happens when you use power from a generator.QuoteSo, he made a generator and transformer that is not capable of running at rated frequency? A filter basically?

author: duak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 07:50:41 pm
content: I just remembered a similar motor that also got a patent:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieronymus_machineIt was said that a picture of it worked just as well as the real thing.Speaking of fantastic fabrications or dramatic devices or McGuffins, didn't John Galt also invent a motor?