EEVBlog BM235 Multimeter Dilemma - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:23:54 am
content: So cats pretty well out of the bag, I have a new model EEVblog branded Brymen meter, the BM235:Manual:http://www.eevblog.com/files/BM235-Manual-EEVblog.pdfCurrently only available to supporters, but seems to be selling well.I "only" have 175 left in stock, which sounds like a lot, but here's the trick, I've just been told that new batches are at least 60 days lead time, and that kinda changes things.I suspect that if I do a video on it, I might very well sell out of the 175 I have left fairly fast.I've been caught with this before with the uCurrent, doing small batches with it always being out of stock (it is again right now)I think I should get another batch under way now so I'm not caught short, but how many?Obviously I have to pay for them now, so I can't just buy a thousand, that's very serious cash up front on my partand a big risk.So what to do?I didn't really want to do a crowd funder for this, as I will be doing one shortly for another new product, and need to do it for my custom EEVblog meter in a few months time.The plan was simply put it on my shopping cart and take back-orders if needed. But a think a potential 2 month shopping cart back-order kinda sucks.It also doesn't entice people to buy. Crowd funding generates more "hype". And of course it gets the money and the order numbers up front, it's the perfect pre-sales vehicle. But can it get overused?So do I pull the product from the shopping cart (i.e. not go public with it) and crowd fund it (being able to fulfil early backers immediately from my stock), or just whack on the shopping cart and make a regular video and take back-orders?What say you?

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:48:28 am
content: Do not crowd fund it.Apart from all the financial and administrative overhead of crowd funding, follow your own advice and buy a few, sell a few, buy a few more than last time, sell a few more than last time and so on.Not only is this what companies do, it is what they are for. It's a company risk to hold too much stock, not a personal one. If you don't reckon you can sell a thousand then you've pissed a lot of hours up against the wall dicking around with a no-go project. I'm sure you did some research in the beginning. Yes?

author: Sinusoidal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:56:14 am
content: It's quite the dilemma. The idea of setting up your shop to handle pre-orders seems like it work ok, although I imagine some people would have issue with lead times and holding their money. Buying in smaller batches is tried and true but, as you say, you run the risk of being perpetually out of stock. No, I think given the potential explosive demand this will have, and you have underestimated your products before, I think a crowd fund for the initial release would work best and keep everyone happy. You can go re-assess how you will continuously stock the item after that. Just my 2c

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:59:09 am
content: I am biased. I am trying to sell Brymen in South America as you know. Please take my opinion with a big pinch of salt.You can sell piece by piece, low quantity by quantity, but you will piss off some who don't want to wait and you will lose sales. This is not your exclusive product and people will not wait extra nor pay a premium for the EEVBlog label on a commodity product.The other risk, as you mention, is buying big stock and being stuck with it in the end. IMHO, this is the way to sell. People want immediate delivery and lower prices. A business is a risk. Go for it or lose sales, IMHO.Get the big stock and go for it if you want the sales. If you don't care about selling many then just buy what you think you can sell and sell slower. We can't tell you which risk to take.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:48:49 am
content: Volted "No croudfunding". Why? I'd say:QuoteEEVBlog-branded meter likely would not be much a "my-first-DMM" customer type product, I'd expect, but rather somethingextrafor those who already like to visit and support your site on regular basis. So waiting a bit should be is fine, consider it as part of exclusivity and "limited edition" thing. If someone want DMM right now right here, well, go buy standard Brymen/Fluke/HPAK/whatever, not a big deal.Or you can reserve some % of batch for "I-want-it right now" people and charge 25% extra price for urgencyP.S. I expected to see Fluke as vendor, you surprised me a bit.P.P.S. Swear, I thought typed "voted"... sick people...

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:04:37 am
content: I bought one the other day and have been standing beside the letter box ever since and only come back inside to grab a drink of water and take the liberty of a chair, like most others here I have literally dozens of handheld multimeters and the last thing I really needed was more of the same, if she who chucks stuff finds out I bought another one I'm in seriously deep trouble having bought a 289 only a couple of weeks ago and something else a week before that. In thirty years of working with and collecting multimeters this will be my first ever experience with the Brymen brand and I have seen comments by others down here in the same boat, I hear and see plenty of people preaching about the brand and for me the meter mentioned particularly with Daves approval should be a good example and one to be both proud of and confident in.Some people may not realise that Brymen meters are not that readily available in Australia, they are sold here under the Metrel or Cabac brand labels and not the sort of thing that you can easily walk into a shop and buy, sure you could order one from an overseas seller from somewhere probably a bit cheaper as most stocked by distributors down here are rather expensive. I bought one out of curiosity and if I find that it is a good meter then I will have no hesitation in recommending it to others and not necessarily just those on the forum, I also wanted to support Dave for his fine efforts and I hope to be able to do more in the future.If you need me I will be out the front, you might have to yell a bit.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:07:46 am
content: Quote from: apelly on February 01, 2016, 07:48:28 amNot many hours involved in this one. They offered a new meter, I accepted, I waited 12 months whilst they designed it, they sent some protos, I gave some feedback, they fixed a few things based on the feedback, I gave the OK on a label, and Bob's your uncle, the final meters turned up.QuoteLike what? A poll of how many people would buy it? If I knew that I wouldn't have needed to start this thread.No, no research, just the same "gut feel" of the market like I've always had with my products going back 20 years.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:11:15 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on February 01, 2016, 09:04:37 amIt's not just Australia, Brymen have probably the worst marketing and distributorship in the industry.BTW, I have the exclusive Australian distributorship on this model.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:28:01 am
content: Just an idea, probably not worth doing.What about you do like airlines do with seats. ie. Most of them at one price groups of other ones at staged price increases. This way the ones who really want one "now" can get it for higher, while those prepared to wait can get the low price.You don't have to make money off the staging just reduce the cost of the next batch by a bit.Yeah I know its complicated but the airlines make it work.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:10:09 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on February 01, 2016, 09:28:01 amReminds me of Massdrop, sounds like a great idea

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:18:54 am
content: Just take a cut for the branding and let franky sell them?Is there a minimum order quantity from Byrmen?I would have thought you endorsing a first DMM might have gone well. But more the $50-100 shootout type.Dont know what a 235 is worth. Is it just a blue holster and logo?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:55:49 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on February 01, 2016, 10:18:54 amAbout US$100Although I sell in AUD equivalentYes, blue holster, EEVBlog branded, and the higher quality probes than normally supplied.

author: ultranalog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:56:21 am
content: I think you should seriously consider a reasonable fraction (0.5 - 1%) of your viewers ready to fork out the cash for the meter. From reading the spec sheet, it does exactly what all your reviews have consistently stated a base bench multimeter should do.Take the low side of the estimate and your viewership (0.5% * 300k) and you can easily order batches of 1k5 meters.You won't learn much more by going Kickstarter. Don't give them the 5% revenue. My advice costs only 4.999%. Let me know where to send the bill...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 11:11:35 am
content: Quote from: ultranalog on February 01, 2016, 10:56:21 amYou can't really use that 300k subscriber figure, more like 50k typically who will see the video. Maybe more long-tail views with usage of the meter in subsequent videos (expect to see it a lotI think the EEVblog branding is just cool).But yes, downside risk on say 1k meters is actually bordering on zero as I can always sell at cost and get my money back if no one actually wants them.Pretty sure I'm going to pony up the doh and simply buy a boat load now.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 11:12:44 am
content: Quote from: ultranalog on February 01, 2016, 10:56:21 amWasn't thinking Kickstarter, maybe one of those free ones on my own server.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:44:51 pm
content: I'm another that says DO NOT do crowd funding on this one. You risk giving your users funding fatigue, putting your more important meter at risk. This 235 is a profit source for you but that is all. You don't have the time and energy invested in it that you do the other one. My advice is, put a warning on the page saying when this 175 are gone it will be a WHILE before you get your next batch. You can even put a 70-90day count down to next batch. You can even allow people to pre-order for each batch you order. So that you know where the meters are going before you even receive them.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 03:18:27 pm
content: Don't know what to suggest on the best way to go - but the crowd funding idea doesn't excite me, especially if you will be doing a different one in the near future.On the meter itself, I've been flopping back and forth on the idea of getting a meter that was at least Cat III rated. I don't often probe the mains and actively try to avoid it, but when I must, it's brief and done with the expectation that my meter might blow up. Nothing has happened so far, but I don't like tempting fate.The specs are a really good fit for me - so I'm going to start saving up some pennies and cross my fingers that there won't be any surprise bills in the mean time.Hope I don't miss the chance...

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 03:26:11 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2016, 10:55:49 am$100 sounds like a great value to me. In the US I think the cheapest version of that basic Brymen meter is the Greenlee Dm200A which seems to be around $85 and up once shipping is included and over $100 in stores. I have one, it's a nice meter but its also generally a low end version of the meter. Yours appears to be the most deluxe version of that meter family. If so then $100 is a stellar price.Anyway, while I think the price, as I understand it, is great, I would tend to agree with the people who say keep volume low on this one. You are selling basically only to EEVblog visitors. They are likely better informed than the average buyer. From a value POV the meter looks great but is that going to drive your buyers? EEVblog readers are likely a group that is more likely to wait if you don't have one in stock. The buyers you aren't going to reach are those who aren't familiar with this blog and are more likely to buy from a local store or what ever they can find on Ebay/other internet sites.It also may be the case that you are seeing pent up demand sales. The meter rumors have been floating around and people decide they would like one both to get a "Dave Approved" meter and because, based on your price, it's a really good value. But after the first wave, how many people will really seek it out? Some new steady stream of members but that may be it. Especially if most people don't see what makes this better than other Brymen meters. If you run out of "active" EEVBlog buyers how low will you have to discount the thing to sell it? Would this be $25 or $95 on ebay?As a general Brymen comment, it really seems like their business plan is to just not sell under their own brand name. In the US they have sold under Greenlee, Extech, Amprobe, and Matco and likely several others and certainly other brand in other countries. It really seems like they are comfortable being an ODM vs brand.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 03:32:53 pm
content: I think exporting from Australia might end up costing a bit too.

author: KM4FER
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 04:56:19 pm
content: Hey Dave, I have no experience at this but would saying to Bryman "I'll buy 10k total meters from you at $xxx price but I only want and will pay for $1k now and then another 1k in 3 month and so on" work? That way you don't have to fork out money all at once and you have a continuous trickle of product flowing in.Or, how about EEVBLOGGER's in other countries helping out by selling locally and cutting some of the customs hassle.Just some thoughts.Guess this is what business is all about.Earl

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:27:35 pm
content: QuoteWhere is the shopping cart?

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:58:33 pm
content: Where else would this be available besides you? If the sizable North America and European markets have a local option that would greatly reduce what you would be selling.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: Tom45 on February 01, 2016, 08:58:33 pmI don't know how many people will be selling the BM235. Probably the same ones that are selling the BM257S now, i.e. not many.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:15:01 pm
content: My feeling, less people will be pissed off if they go out of stock then come back, etc as you order small batches, vs taking open preorders and it taking months for delivery. While I think anyone who actually reads this place would get it and understand the lag in delivery, I'd bet when it becomes available to other than just supporters, there will be a great many people who conveniently skip that part and then get annoyed when they don't get their meter in a week or two.I don't think this should be crowdfunded, especially if you have another, somewhat more transitional type of crowdfunding project coming up shortly. Guess I should go back and vote.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:15:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2016, 09:07:46 amIf you didn't doanyresearch, atleasta poll, straw or otherwise, you clearly don't care. Why start caring now?Just buy whatever you're comfortable with.If you sort out your online shopping experience it'll even tell people how much stock you have (approximately.) Then you can just tell people in the item description that backorders take an age.

author: eeadata
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:38:44 pm
content: Dave can you explain us the benefits of this meter among other competitors for the community to buy this meter instead?it seems it is a 6000 count , an NCV or EMFD .Hope to hear from you.Nice work.

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 09:51:49 pm
content: You gotta admit, most of us are really looking forward to this teardown video

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:02:05 pm
content: Quote from: eeadata on February 01, 2016, 09:38:44 pmI believe there is a video on the way that should cover it.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on February 01, 2016, 02:44:51 pmI don't really equate a "pre-sale" of an existing product vs. a "crowd-funded" product in development.I would participate in a "pre-sale" without prejudice against a future "crowd-funded" project.Where do I sign-up?

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:33:49 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on February 01, 2016, 10:02:05 pmThe backlight continuity feature is pretty nifty.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 03:45:28 am
content: Why dont you sell what you have, let the people test it for a while and after receiving feedback and do more modifications if needed than order bigger stock. I would buy one to support you.

author: Huluvu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 12:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on February 02, 2016, 02:33:49 amSeems to be copied from Agilent / Keysight (my U1232 has this feature also)

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 02:32:42 am
content: I got a parcel this morning at 8:15am and it woke me up, anyway I was probably dreaming anyhow....I have no intention of doing a review on this meter as others are better equipped and versed than I am, so far she looks pretty good and is smack on with my Fluke 117 even in range transitions, the leads are very nice, more to follow by others I expect.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 02:52:12 am
content: I would buy one of those overpriced Brymen RS232 kits if it came with a firmware update to add the backlight continuity indicator to the BM257s.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 03:05:22 am
content: I loved this feature on the U1272A's and it's very nice to see it being incorporated here, backlight is very bright white LED.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 03:29:04 am
content: Just curious - Any reason why the sockets are so far up the body?Seem to crowd the range switch a bit.

author: ADC-1995
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 03:36:49 am
content: Nice side by side comparison. I like the larger digits on the Brymen.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 04:11:28 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 03, 2016, 03:29:04 amIn a video around here somewhere, I thought I saw a giant fuse down there at the bottom.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 04:21:41 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 03, 2016, 04:11:28 amInteresting. In the comparison picture one can infer the creepage distance between the lead inputs and the rotary switch are much smaller than the Fluke?

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 04:31:17 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 03, 2016, 04:21:41 amYou cannot because this design uses a riser board for the input jacks. Why don't watch Dave's teardown to see the internals?

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 04:40:58 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 03, 2016, 03:29:04 amBased on using the Greenlee DM200A which has the same physical layout, yet, the leads do get in the way of the range switch. The switch is also on the stiff side. I still like the meter's design.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 04:44:43 am
content: That might explain why it appears on this model - but the question is why they are up that highat all. ie What was the original design decision to place them there.BTW - Idolike the presentation.

author: Tim F
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 09:07:49 am
content: Well, one advantage of having the jacks up a little higher is that the strain reliefs don't hit the table when you have the meter up on the tilting bail. On the Fluke 11x if you use leads with larger strain reliefs on the banana plugs you have to rotate the plugs like / \ to clear the table.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 09:18:17 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 03, 2016, 04:44:43 amThe fuse positioning etc.This is the only CAT IV rated meter in this small a package AFAIK. That's also the reason for the riser board.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:48:12 am
content: Quote from: nidlaX on February 03, 2016, 04:31:17 amThe video that is not publicly available? Yeah, right.Note to self: irony does not come across well in writing...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:57:50 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 03, 2016, 11:48:12 amThere is no public or private teardown video.The internal construction is near identical to the BM257 I have done a teardown on.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 12:01:04 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 03, 2016, 09:18:17 amDave, do you have any details on how the battery life was determined? Did you put it through a mixed use of capacitance, backlight, regular functions (V/A/R), continuity or did an estimate of the average power consumption versus a specific battery charge?

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 12:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 03, 2016, 11:48:12 amQuote from: EEVblog on February 03, 2016, 11:57:50 amAnd here it is for your convenience:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 12:52:17 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 03, 2016, 12:01:04 pmI left it running in MIN/MAX mode until the low battery indicator came on.I used the backlight and various functions a few times.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 01:06:06 pm
content: I guess the proper way of doing it would be a pre-order in your shop. Most of us want to support you, with a nice DMM purchase, so waiting 2-3 months for it is OK.

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 01:22:42 pm
content: Why not simply post a question in the forum (Buy & Sell perhaps?) asking people to vote if they are interested in buying a meter. At the least it will give you an order of magnitude on how many you should be thinking of buying.

author: Errmy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 02:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: idpromnut on February 03, 2016, 01:22:42 pmThis is a great idea. I would order this scope, even with high shipping costs, just cause of the EEVblog logo.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 03:24:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 03, 2016, 12:52:17 pmThank you, Dave. And thanks for the clarification on the video as well.I am SHOCKED that you did not included the battery life specification with and without the batterizer, though.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 10:55:42 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 03, 2016, 03:24:49 pmI might have been disappointed too - if the darned things had been shipped.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:25:42 pm
content: Quote from: idpromnut on February 03, 2016, 01:22:42 pmBecause that only gets the forum people (and the ones that see the thread, a relatively small percentage of my audience.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 03, 2016, 11:25:42 pmBut creating a short video and pointing to that poll will cover most of the people? You would have to conduct it using some external service with no registration required, of course.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2016, 12:06:29 am
content: Preorders first, then teardown

author: billfernandez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2016, 03:06:08 am
content: Hi Dave, I've been thinking about your initial questions and would like to share some thoughts:1. Is your custom EEVBlog meter will be coming out in a couple of months, or is that just when you want to start a crowdfunding campaign? If the former, will people want to buy that instead of the Bryman? If the latter, are people likely to hold off on buying a new meter until the custom EEVBlog meter comes out?2. A crowdfunding campaign is something you participate because you want something that doesn't exist to be brought into existence. The Bryman meter already exists, and you have some you could sell, so it doesn't seem right as a crowdfunding project. It seems more like a group buy with a really long lead-time. Is *this* meter something that lots of people would wait that long for? I kind of doubt it, since there are so many similar meters on the market that can be obtained quickly and easily.3. Is this something you want to offer long term as a product on your sales site? If so, then maybe you should order some more, do a video when they come in, and in the meantime sell only to customers you reach via the forum (or who browse your website). If it's not really something you want to offer long term, then why order any more than the 175 you have?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2016, 03:50:59 am
content: With the effort that Dave has put into getting this meter together, it would seem only natural to maximise the benefit of that effort. More sales means more benefit - that bit is simple.The difficulty, as I see it, is to match the supply to the demand. Oversupply leads to too much capital tied up in stock that you either have to ride out over time or take a cut in profits in order to reclaim capital, not to mention the opportunity cost. Undersupply could lead to loss of interest due to long lead times. Finding the balance is the magic trick of any distribution channel.The idea of the crowd funding approach - as I understood it - was to reduce the capital outlay risk and to determine some concrete idea of demand by getting people to commit some real money up front. Asking people if they'd be interested will get a lot more hands put up than will actually be digging into their wallets. It may not be the traditional style of campaign in the purist sense - but if you consider that this would bring a product to a larger range of customers than might otherwise be viable, then I feel there is some merit.Whether this is the best way to go is, as I see it, Dave's question.The alternative is to take a punt on how much capital you want to commit and pray you're somewhere in the right zone of the supply/demand equation.One element that complicates this equation is the fact that it is an EEVblog branded product which will create a lot of interest in itself - but the question is: "What increase in demand will that bring?"

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2016, 02:42:44 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on February 03, 2016, 11:37:18 pmStrawpoll, maybe?

author: alex89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 06:40:59 pm
content: Hey Dave, please add the shipment option to Italy !

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 08:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: alex89 on February 06, 2016, 06:40:59 pmYou should probably complain to your local postal service instead.http://auspost.com.au/parcels-mail/pack-and-track-international.html

author: samgab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 09:33:29 pm
content: Is the hold button a sort of "touch hold" or is it just a screen freeze? (I tried downloading the PDF manual linked in the original post, but it was just a title page, lots of blank pages in the middle, then a couple of photos of the internals and the warranty page at the end.)Edit: Scratch that question. I found the answer myself in the updated version of the manual in which the contents are actually populated:http://www.eevblog.com/files/BM235-Manual-EEVblog.pdfIt's a screen freeze only. Pity.Interesting to see that all the protection circuitry is on a separate daughter board.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 09:57:46 pm
content: Came across another great branding idea:http://www.ehx.com/products/9v-batterySeems like a no-brainer, this multimeter needs to be shipped with a Dave branded battery. Could even ship a few of them to Batterizer for their promo videos

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 10:06:51 pm
content: I support this idea!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:17:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 01, 2016, 07:23:54 amHow well would it work if you use the sales volume of the uCurrent to determine how quick your product sell and base ordering new batches of the multimeter on that? You have to start somewhere so turn it into a math problem and use the information you have to solve it. You'll need to keep a few on hand for replacements anyway (parcels lost, DOA units, etc).

author: Dragon88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:57:16 am
content: Dave, where are the price breaks for order quantities? 160 will sell out almost instantly but 1000 sure sounds like a lot. Probably about $60k up front for you? Several months to sell them out and recoup...Would Brymen be willing to take half now, half later for a large shipment? Surely this is good PR for them, I didn't even know about Brymen until you talked about their meters on your blog. The same must be true for many of your audience.

author: Tim F
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:58:33 am
content: Perhaps a pre-ordering system where the buyers pay a refundable deposit inversely proportional to how long it takes to backorder?I.e. people pay 30% deposit for the opportunity to buy one in 2 months time or a 15% deposit to buy one in 4 months time, etc. If buyers want to back out of the purchase between pre-ordering and the stock arriving from Brymen then you just use the excess stock in the next shipment and reduce your next order size from Brymen.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 04:27:22 am
content: I'd say do not buy large quantity right now, sell what you got and see if any complains/bugs pop up. You said this is a new model, this is a risk.

author: envisionelec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 02:40:35 pm
content: There's the distribution model which might do well if you send a bulk shipment to a willing participant in the USA.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 02:54:55 pm
content: Seems like a nice meter. Is the backlight auto-off really 10 minutes and not 10 seconds? If so, that is a really great feature! Virtually every other meter annoyingly shuts the light off after 1 minute at the most.

author: Spamlobster
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 04:53:21 pm
content: Shipping to just 26 countries? What the bloody.We need a fail-button equivalent of thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2qQIR1jZxw&feature=youtu.be&t=12

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 06:40:22 pm
content: Quote from: Spamlobster on February 15, 2016, 04:53:21 pmRemember, this is not technically live yet for the general forum. Even though the link leaked out, it is not intended for the general publix, only the supporter forum. He is still debugging and testing international shipping.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 11:26:03 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on February 15, 2016, 06:40:22 pmIIRC it's on the EEVBlog shop now.

author: QuantumLogic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 12:13:09 am
content: Yup, it's in the shop and I just bought one to support Dave.I agree with most of the rest of the people here to not crowd fund. Get them in batches (of 100 or 200) and ship out when they come.Even back-orders can get to be a PITA because some people don't READ and lose their sh#t when they "discover" the meter they ordered isn't in stock and won't be shipped for 60 days (then 14+ days more to wait for shipping to them).Hopefully once the 1st batch sells out the profit from those can be used to help buy the next batch and so on. At some point, the money used to buy the next batch of 100-200 won't feel like as much of a strain on the bank account.Yes, some people will be angry, but if anything happens to the supply (factory explodes, whatever), you aren't caught with back-orders needing refunds.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 09:17:11 am
content: Probably best to try to organise small shipment batches with Brymen, and "trickle" them in to try to match demand. Provided you haven't seriously over-estimated demand that should be a good compromise (although obviously this could also cut into your margin somewhat).I have put an order through for one. We don't see many Brymens at all over here, and I was looking at the BM257s for a possible look over a recent model. This new model is just what I need, and I'm happy to support your efforts.(Will be checking it against our calibration suite, so hopefully that production bug you mentioned has been properly squashed.)

author: ADC-1995
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 06:01:57 pm
content: Must be sold out as Dave's shop says on back order when i went to pay... Or is it??Dave do you have any left?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 07:27:58 pm
content: Dave will probably send a big box to Simon to sell in the Sparkylabs shop, to cover the EU with less hassle, and I hope he does do an arrangement with Chris and Frankie to have 2 distributors that can handle the USA and worldwide distribution at a better price than AUSPOST. Of course this presupposes the others are willing to do this, and I do know that certain countries ( my one included) are on a rather informal greylist so far as international postal delivery is concerned, due to losses and delays in delivery of international parcels sent via regular post, tracked or not.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 10:36:12 pm
content: Dave have you contacted Tequipment to sell the meters and have the factory ship them directly to Tequipment? Seems a logical way to sell them in the US. Hope you could make something using this method.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 11:37:47 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 17, 2016, 10:36:12 pmIf I want them to make more on each meter than I do, sure. There is a reason I sell it myself:https://www.eevblog.com/2014/05/28/the-economics-of-selling-your-hardware-project/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2016, 11:47:08 pm
content: Quote from: ADC-1995 on February 17, 2016, 06:01:57 pmYes, sold out.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 11:06:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 17, 2016, 11:37:47 pmThis is absolutely true.When I started selling my first widget five years ago, I had very little idea of the market and certainly I wasn't about to give away my margin to a third party. After two months, I started receiving enquiries from retailers but as I couldn't keep up with demand as it was, why would you give away your cut to someone else in that situation?Due to its unexpected success, it took me eight months to be in a position to hold any stock as as soon as I added stock it was sold and it went straight out the door. During that time, pretty much all income was reinvested into making new stock. Once I was able to hold stock, I then went back to negotiate with distributors and did reasonably well as it goes. They now sell 2/3rds of my inventory, but they do targeted advertising and other marketing, and I'm reasonably happy with the arrangement despite seeing my margin being eroded!My own opinion is that if you can possibly avoid it, crowd funding is a last resort. There is a financial and administrative overhead associated with crowd funding, especially when things don't go according to plan. I'd rather take on those risks myself and not have a throng of stakeholders acting as armchair quarterbacks telling me how I should or shouldn't approach a problem.

author: tequipment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 10:56:51 pm
content: Dave has a point. Most distributors just take orders. A few of us think we create value. Buying say 250 units at once and paying for them does bring some value.Displaying a product to customers who have never seen a brand or item brings value. It really is about incremental value. Do we reach enough people to provide extra value.Dave if interested we would buy a few hundred. I would email it out to our database and feature it on the site. We also have a marketing system and the ability to market to people with certain interests. Our email database is about 200,000 people.If not we understand. On a side note I like to listen to the videos while driving. My kids are starting to ask questions about oscilloscopes!Cheers,Evan CirelliTEquipment.NET

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2016, 12:54:47 am
content: Thanks for the offer Evan, I'll certainly keep it in mind.The problem is that I'm trying to build up a business selling some bespoke products. Mostly I hope it to be my own designed products, but there will some thing like this meter that make sense because of the inherent popularity of meters, and in this case, Brymen's hopelessness at marketing and distribution provides an opportunity. i couldn't do the same thing rebadging Uni-T's for example.Now, setting up a business like this is a bit "all or nothing". What I mean by that is either I set up the systems and sell and distribute stuff myself, or I don't.I either go fully dropshipped gloablly, or I don't. Although a good argument can be made that the EU is difficult, and it is.If I go half arsed and have distributors in every country selling them, then what's the point selling any myself at all? What's the point setting up my own system and store etc?The distributors will take amuchbigger cut than a dropshipper would, so potentially leaves me hanging in the breeze not earning enough money to make it all worthwhile.Because I ultimately want to hire someone to take care of this side of things for me (I don't want to be packing and shipping), going "all-in" and doing as much packing and shipping myself makes sense, because:a) I already have decent systems in place to do it.b) Do so provides enough profit margin to hire someone to do.c) I at least start building a business that's mine, and hires local people.The problem with Amercian distributors is that America is:a) Probably my biggest marketb) Provides the least hassles in terms of shippingSo I have to ask, what advantage do I get with an American distributor?Some of Evans points are valid of course, but would it be undermining my goal to have a little bespoke company of my own packing and shipping stuff and bringing in revenue and hiring someone local? That's likely.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 05:17:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 20, 2016, 12:54:47 amPossibly you could ask anyone else in the same position if they wanted to sell their bespoke products through you. Maybe even see if you can get volume up enough to get some batches of open-source hardware (with additional tweaks as deemed necessary). Once you have the capability to take orders and ship you may as well have a number of products.Brymen do seem to be terrible at marketing. Perhaps they see no reason to try to sell into new markets and compete when they can do fine domestically?

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 07:27:01 pm
content: Quote from: boggis the cat on February 22, 2016, 05:17:29 amI think their "rebranders" holds up their ass - Here in DK, every sparky has an Elma meter - Yes, it is a Brymen in a green rubber holster.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:20:28 pm
content: 468 people have signed up to be notified when the meter is back in stockWill be interesting to see how many of those actually buy once they get the notification.

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:50:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 25, 2016, 10:20:28 pmjust guessing here, but you probably will run out of stock very quickly again lol

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:18:55 pm
content: Never underestimate the multiplying power of the internet. If the devious brothers managed to raise 300,000 USD with a flawed gizmo, a straight fellow like you with a solid product ought to do a lot better.

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 25, 2016, 10:20:28 pmOddly enough, I brought in my BM235 to show the guys at work, and immediately was asked to go buy a couple for the company; this was just about when you ran out of stock.

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:14:27 am
content: Dave,Please dont take this the wrong way because not too long ago I was in a similar spot starring down a $100k order and sweating bullets over it.In your second to last post you answered your own question............At this point it is either all or nothing.This is not a crowd fundable product like some of yours have been in the past.Either bite the bullet and use the stock to launch your brand to another level or continue within the nice little niche that you've made for yourself.But you cant use crowdfunding to hedge your bets in a instance like this and the fact that you posted this on the forum means that you have some doubts.Trust me I can relate to that as I had numerous sleepless nights about what could go wrong but in the end I pulled it off as I'm sure you'll probably do.I went from making products in a rented garage to a 10,000 square ft proper facility and havent looked back since.No matter what you decide no one is going to think any less of you and considering what you've done so far there would be nothing wrong with keeping the pace you've chosen so far without making a big leap.Maybe it's all your market will support for now,but only you can decide this.One thing that really helped me take the plunge was there comes a point where you have to stop looking just at the sales numbers and profit margins on a few products one or two at a time.Making a big order like this should also be a investment in your brand.So if you have a few other projects in the pipeline,get your ducks in a row and pull the trigger when the time is right and dont worry so much if you have some stock sitting around.You just have to look at that stock as the cost of taking your brand to a new levelLast but not least,don't be afraid of pulling in a investor.If the time is right dont miss the wave because of trying to self fund something in house that most times would take a investor.You might never be able to get the momentum back later on down the line.Good luck no matter whatRobert

author: stryker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:29:25 am
content: Hi DaveIf the lead time means delivery isn't too distant, could you consider booking backorders so you have pre-paid orders to both reduce your risk by providing certainty in demand and assist your cashflow?Geoff

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:42:41 am
content: Quote from: RobertBG on February 26, 2016, 02:14:27 amI can't think of anything worse!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:43:26 am
content: Quote from: stryker on February 26, 2016, 02:29:25 amI'm currently taking backorders. Delivery early April.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:15:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 26, 2016, 02:42:41 amBingo, there are lots of jokes about Venture Capital online, most of them are true.It's akin to having a new staff member you need to train, only they don't do any work!

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:31:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 26, 2016, 02:42:41 amPosting this thread asking about crowd sourcing a multi meter is a lot worse if you ask me as well as others,it's just most folks tried to sugar coat it for youIf you think you're going to sell a lot more than 5% of the 466 meters people are currently waiting for on your website when they get notified in April your in for a rude awakening.Ten percent would be a generous number to look forwards to.I dont know about you but I can pick up the phone at lunch time and easily have $50 k by closing from a previous investor with little more than a handshake to close a deal with terms as good or better than a bank.Investors arent all sharks,you just have to know the right ones.Although part of their investment is in you and not the business,so if you arent confident or a trustworthy person your mileage may vary.I didn't have half a million when I decided to step things up but I did know the right people and they wanted to back me.Like I said before,you made a nice niche for yourself and if your only comfortable dabbling in a product here and there its fine.But when you posted about trying to raise capital via crowdfunding for a rebadged meter that most see as a item that should be a stocked on a shelfIt's not like it is a breakthrough item that you're bringing to market here.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:52:27 am
content: Quote from: RobertBG on February 26, 2016, 04:31:48 amI just floated the idea, thinking out loud, no big deal.QuoteI'll bet you a free multimeter you are wrong.I've been selling niche stuff to niche audiences for 20+ years, I have a reasonable spidy-sense.QuoteI'm happy for you.QuoteBetter to have no investor at all.QuoteI know. I knew that before I posted.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:59:32 am
content: Quote from: station240 on February 26, 2016, 04:15:36 amI'd rather simply borrow the money from PayPal (who are desperate to lend me money), or a bank, or some dodgy loan shark

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:00:51 am
content: I'll take that bet,like I said between 5-10% of the 466 will actually order within 7-10 days of being notifiedThis is not including the preorders that you are now offering though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:02:30 am
content: Quote from: RobertBG on February 26, 2016, 05:00:51 amWhat are you putting up in return?

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:18:54 am
content: Yes! A challenge. We shall wait with baited breath.

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:20:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 26, 2016, 05:02:30 amI might carry something for your car depending on what you drive so that would be my preference.If you drive a AUDI, BMW, MINI, Porsche, Mercedes & Volkswagen I'm sure we can find something interesting.Worse case something of equal value from the states or money works in a pinch.You do have a unfair advantage though because of the hype this will make as I'm sure you knowIf you want to do it on numbers alone,edit out these posts and we'll finish via pm but either way I'm a man of my word

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:54:41 am
content: Quote from: RobertBG on February 26, 2016, 05:20:06 amHow about post a photo of yourself holding a sign that says, "I was wrong, Dave was right"BTW, I drive a Toyota Corolla, and it doesn't need anything, it gets from A to B.QuoteOnce again your instinct on number seems to be out of whack. Talk of this in this thread will have practically zero impact on how many random people who signed up for the meter will actually buy it or not.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 06:00:27 am
content: If I was a betting fellow, I'd have to place mine on Dave. Those meters are popular.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 06:07:00 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on February 26, 2016, 06:00:27 amYes. I'd say you should get well over twenty percent sell-through form the pre-orders. Few people are going to bother with setting up a pre-order notification unless they have a reasonable interest.Another lot of 150 meters (if memory serves) may not be sufficient to cover those pre-orders.In any case, let us know the terms of the bet.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 06:19:39 am
content: Quote from: boggis the cat on February 26, 2016, 06:07:00 amBingo.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 06:45:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 26, 2016, 06:19:39 amWell I guess we'll see.You did sell out of the first batch, with no real attempt at driving sales. It looks like a pretty solid meter. (Still haven't got around to verifying it against specs. Maybe over the weekend.)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 12:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 26, 2016, 04:52:27 amRobertBG, I suspect you are in for a photograph given the aspects of "novelty" and "customization". This is a product customized to a catered audience and it is still in its "novelty" grace period. To your advantage, though, the bet is hedged against the 400+ guys that showed interest, not the gross sales of the product.Anyways, we shall see if the goods of the transaction will be inside an American Airlines Boeing or a Qantas Airbus...

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:03:15 pm
content: Dave,those are fair enough terms.I'll also make a little donation to the charity of your choice and if I win the meter can go to a E.E. student at the Technical University in Varna Bulgaria.I tutor some students from there to help with their English and they could really use a decent meter.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: RobertBG on February 26, 2016, 02:03:15 pmWhat do you mean by "win", is there some sort of contest or you win by buying it?

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 04:28:54 am
content: ez,You'll have to rewind a bit in this thread for context. Start at abouthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-bm235-multimeter-dilemma/msg878802/#msg878802(or back up some more to get the very beginning of the conversation).

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 06:04:21 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on February 27, 2016, 04:28:54 amwas it this bet ?QuoteI thought there was a drawing for Dave's meter that I missedI did sign up for the Keysight at their website

author: Johnny Electron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 12:07:18 pm
content: Just backordered one! My wife won't be happy. Already own a bm869s, bm857s, bm257s, and a bm65s(ac\dc clamp meter). Not to mention 4 fluke meters, 2 Agilent, and 5 other branded meters.My name is john and I'm a multimeter addict! it's been none days since my last purchase.I voted no on crowd funding. I also believe that should be for startup on new projects only and not to fund inventory purchases on existing products.Keep up the good work Dave!John DMichigan, USA

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 11:13:36 pm
content: Quote from: Johnny Electron on February 28, 2016, 12:07:18 pmPictures of the above as per??https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/show-your-multimeter!/

author: Johnny Electron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 12:02:20 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on February 28, 2016, 11:13:36 pmI posted in the link you provided but I'll attach a pic here for convenience. That's most of them anyways

author: leafman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:18:38 pm
content: Damn, thats a nice collection of meters. I've been waiting 3 days since my EEVblog meter got into my town and canada post is still sitting on it not delivering it :|I have a fluke 87v and a surprisingly accurate no-name chinese meter for low energy stuff, so no real need but cant have too many meters!

author: Johnny Electron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 01:56:30 am
content: Quote from: leafman on March 01, 2016, 11:18:38 pmThanks. At least someone appreciates my multimeters, my wife sure doesn't!My eevblog branded meter is on back order until April or whenever (I don't really mind waiting. Maybe the backlight noise will be fixed on the next batch.) I hope Canada post delivers yours soon.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 03:18:35 am
content: That's quite a collection!Do you (ab)use them all? If not, which get the most on-time?

author: canthearu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 02:17:54 pm
content: I'm having some trouble pre-ordering one of your MultimetersI am not able to select Australia as a shipping destination ...

author: Johnny Electron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 01:44:17 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on March 04, 2016, 03:18:35 amThey all have their uses and some features I feel are better on certain meters.I had to do some quick troubleshooting today and I must say, I do tend to grab the fluke 117 more times than not when I'm heading out the door. It's small enough for a winter coat pocket without much fuss. The brymen bm257s has been in a coat pocket more than a few times as well but not as much as the fluke 117. The fluke 179 is another favorite if I'm toating a meter around. The larger meters tend to stay on the bench most of the time. They all get their 'on' time though. I don't usually need very high accuracy for the work I do. The hobby work on the bench can be the opposite sometimes...

author: 1Ghz
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 09:41:48 am
content: I just backordered one.I can’t wait for EEVBlog BM235!

author: thisguy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 04:34:42 am
content: I backordered one as well, but for more excitement I put small typo in my mailing address.I sent a correction to the order confirmation address and CC'd Dave, so I hope he makes it through his email backlog before sending out the next batch.(I'm kind of wondering how the payment went through. Usually payment authorization involves verifying the billing address prior to approval.)But, yeah, I'm excited to get the EEVBlog branded meter!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 06:25:41 am
content: Just thought I'd throw this into the ring....While I have been enjoying a new meter, there is always the question of what to do with the accessories so you don't need to hunt for them when you want them.With my BM235, here is my solution:1. Detachable probe caps. These just live on the end of the probes and only come off when necessary.2. Thermocouple. Keeping company with other meter bits and pieces in a box somewhere. (Can't remember when I last used one.)3. Banana plug adapters. Hmmm.... These get used more frequently than I would have expected - and they make for a solid, convenient connection. But they are small and easily lost, so I came up with this little idea - and it's been working well....

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 06:36:04 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 02, 2016, 06:25:41 amGood idea Brumby!I'll do the same (though I might use a bit of high density foam instead to make it simple to get out when needed, yet firmly fixed in place until then).

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 06:38:24 am
content: I've had no problems with the bubble wrap. It's pretty well wedged in - and all it takes is the tip of a probe to get the extraction process started.Reallycheap and easily replaceable, too.

author: stryker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 08:10:11 am
content: Quote from: 1Ghz on March 06, 2016, 09:41:48 amMe too. Wasn't quite sure whether that helps Dave in the bet that happened earlier in this thread, or if I should have held off until the email saying they were back in stock for mine to count, but when I got the nod from the minister for finance & war I thought it was prudent to jump in the queue.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 09:48:15 am
content: Quote from: thisguy on March 25, 2016, 04:34:42 amWhat's was that email address?QuoteStandard PayPal transaction.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 01:32:38 pm
content: Do you ship them to Germany, Dave?

author: thisguy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:51:11 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 02, 2016, 09:48:15 amI sent the address correction to both sales@eevblog.com and dave@eevblog.com from the email address associated with this account. The word 'Typo' is in the subject.

author: dav
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2016, 06:59:53 pm
content: What are the main differences between this BM235 and the BM257s?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:36:37 am
content: Narrow AC true RMS bandwidth and lack of PC connectivity.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:51:23 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 06, 2016, 01:36:37 amThe BM235 also has a few extra features, like visual continuity and multi level EF detection. I think slightly better specs on a few ranges, worse on others.Either one is a great little meter, it's a coin toss really.

author: marber
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 04:43:47 am
content: The BM235 also lacks the bargraph.

author: QuantumLogic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 06:55:10 pm
content: Hi Dave, any update regarding the April load of meters and when they might be shipping out to end users? I ordered a meter from the first batch and liked it so much I ordered a second meter from the second batch (I always seem to need another meter for another measurement while actively using the ones I have). Just curious, not impatient.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 08:55:44 pm
content: listen to the latest Amp Hour. He has just employed another staff member to pack them and wants to get yet another place to do so!

author: stryker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 09:51:08 pm
content: Quote from: QuantumLogic on April 29, 2016, 06:55:10 pmReceived my order in the past week. So there is movement afoot.

author: canthearu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 30, 2016, 08:51:29 am
content: I got mine too. Fantastic Multimeter.Only suggestion I would make is to get your supplier to put a decent set of batteries in it. Shipping with generic zinc batteries kind of ruins the whole quality feel of the meter.But it is a very minor complaint

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2016, 09:02:18 am
content: Quote from: QuantumLogic on April 29, 2016, 06:55:10 pmI have the meters. I'm slowing working through the 300 backorders I had. I can only ship so many per day, some days none due to various reasons and public holidays.All local orders have been fulfilled, and new local orders that come though will be processed right away. International orders are being processed from the oldest orders first.

author: PeterMadach
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2016, 04:11:04 pm
content: Hey Dave!Do you ship these things marked as gift? I'm really thinking about getting one for myself, but if customs add to the shipping cost and the cost of the meter, I fear it will be well out of my price range

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 12:21:16 pm
content: Quote from: RobertBG on February 26, 2016, 05:00:51 amGetting ready for the bet.I currently have 50 backorders I haven't shipped.I have 639 people on the multimeter signup list:Just have to sort a few things and then I'll send a bulk email to all those people.RobertBG said:QuoteSo I need to get at least 10% of those 639 people signed up to buy a meter within 7-10 days. 64 orders or bust.If I win RobertBG has to donate AU$155 (meter + postage) to a charity of my choice.If Robert wins then he gets a meter shipped and will donate it to a local school.I think some people signed up will already have decided to buy one anyway, but I'll let those slide.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 12:23:13 pm
content: Quote from: PeterMadach on May 01, 2016, 04:11:04 pmNo, that is not legal in my country.

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 12:44:01 pm
content: BM235 is also about 30% cheaper than BM257 in the UK.3DB

author: Wisnaeme
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 01:29:48 pm
content: My one shipped today...Dave....Do you know the shipping timescales for the service to the UK?"Sent with Tracked Airmail under 2kg"The Auspost website isn't exactly clear on the time for that service.Thanks!

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 01:36:29 pm
content: If it helps it was 8 working days for me in Sweden, should be the same or a day less for the UK.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 01:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: Wisnaeme on May 05, 2016, 01:29:48 pmAuspost isn't clear on anything any more, sacking a ton of staff and are now famously slow.3-10 days

author: stryker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 01:54:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 05, 2016, 12:21:16 pmI'm in that camp Dave.Apologies - Geoff

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2016, 02:17:02 pm
content: Quote from: timgiles on May 05, 2016, 01:36:29 pmI can remember shipping kits to the UK/Europe by regular airmail parcel and it took 2 days.Those days are long gone...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 05:04:17 am
content: A handful of hours after sending the email blast, I think RobertBG is going to lose

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 05:08:09 am
content: We need a counter, thermometer graph, or something.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 05:57:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 06, 2016, 05:04:17 amIt's almost over:I put 250 units in stock to start.And not even half the emails have been opened, with 61% of the emails getting a click to the order page.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 06:22:49 am
content: And it's official, I winStarted with 250, now 186, I sold my 64 units from only 270 of the 639 emails opened so far in 4 hours. So much for 7-10 days

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 06:36:11 am
content: You can calibrate your watch from the 5 minute BM235 stock countdown counter...Just bought one!Thanks!

author: canthearu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 10:00:01 am
content: haha, half tempted to buy another for workJust need to convince boss to pay!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 10:06:02 am
content: 8 hours, 225 clicks from 360 opened, for 89 sold.

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 10:10:55 am
content: See? I was close enough! 5.39 instead of 5 minutes!

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 10:41:38 am
content: Congrats to those that got in, hope another batch will appear in Daves lock up soon.

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 10:50:40 am
content: Dave, I hope that you will ship them with Australia Post Express.Here in Greece anything that has been shipped withDHL/FEDEX/UPSstaysat the airport customs to be taxed even if there is no reason to be taxed !Even for little things costing $30 you will be charged 55 euros !Little vampires...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 01:32:03 am
content: Quote from: hgg on May 06, 2016, 10:50:40 amAustralia Post Pack & Track.International courier is EMS.

author: Thundertiger
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 02:51:38 am
content: I am one of those people who put in for the notification email but then went right ahead and bought one anyway!I also received my shipment notification the other day. Many thanks from the middle of the United States Dave!Kelly

author: hgg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 03:59:02 am
content: QuotePerfect!

author: nomis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 10:28:20 am
content: Quote from: XynxNet on April 02, 2016, 01:32:38 pmHe does. Don't be surprised when you get a happy "package has been delivered" mail from the australian post and no package is anywhere to see - it has ended up at the customs office and their notification to you will take some more time.(and there will be about 20EUR of import tax)I like it. I now have a BM235 as well as a BM257 we'll see what I end up using moreThanks,Simon

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 11:17:50 am
content: Quote from: nomis on May 17, 2016, 10:28:20 amGerman customs is the worst

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 02:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 17, 2016, 11:17:50 amFar from it, as they probably don't deliver something in February that was shipped in early October and arrived at their hands within a week (obviously tax is charged on top of everything). Well, that is at least more fortunate when compared to the occasions where the package simply go "missing" - especially when it contains more desirable consumer items...Oh well, perhaps it is the worst of the "first world"...

author: kenabi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 02:53:35 pm
content: Ordered one the second I got the email, riding the bus in to work. typing in what little I needed to while the bus was bouncing around was fun let me tell youRegardless, I'm pretty happy with it, cheers, Dave!Side note: those probe tips are SHARP. Ouchie.

author: nharrer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 04:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 17, 2016, 02:49:54 pmNot quite. I received my EEVBlog BM235 yesterday. Here in Austria it is also 20% import tax. BUT, the Austrian postal service adds another 10 EUR for handling import taxed shippings (Zollstellungsentgelt). So it was 32 EUR altogether on import tax and fees. But like you said. At least they are fast and stuff usually does not get lost.Even tough I excepted it, it still hurts a bit. Considering they added about a third of the value on top of it. Damn highwaymen.Dave: I love the multimeter. It's my first non el cheapo meter.

author: Flipflop
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 05:42:01 pm
content: QuoteSimilar here in the UK, 20% VAT + £8 Royal mail handling charge. It came to £22.63 (29.25 euros)in total. Still worked out cheaper than buying the BM257 though and I don't need the IR PC comm anyway.Dave, would it be rude to ask how many you have sold?

author: dave_
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 02:28:41 am
content: Just used my EEVblog BM235's temperate probe to record a fever of 39.3c. Such a versatile unit! :p

author: QuantumLogic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 01:57:42 pm
content: I think he sold all 250 from the last batch (from April) and just got 300 more (May shipment) of which 266 are still in stock in the store as I write this.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:26:53 pm
content: Quote from: dave_ on May 23, 2016, 02:28:41 amDid the meter cause the fever?

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 02:23:30 pm
content: I have a fever! And the only cure is....MORE MULTIMETERS!

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 09:41:20 am
content: Don't tell the wife, just ordered mine!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 10:09:53 am
content: Quote from: QuantumLogic on May 23, 2016, 01:57:42 pm200 was the first batch, then 600, now on the batch of 500 with however many of those left. Another batch just on order last week.Orders always have a 2 month lead time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 10:12:11 am
content: Quote from: Flipflop on May 22, 2016, 05:42:01 pmPretty sure it's over 1000 now.

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 11:42:15 am
content: Quote from: dave_ on May 23, 2016, 02:28:41 amIndeed, I used mind to calibrate my daughter's thermometer:

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 11:52:10 am
content: Quote from: idpromnut on May 25, 2016, 11:42:15 amMaybe I'm missing the joke here, but is that not a terrible idea? Inaccuracy on a typical K-type thermocouple is the difference between hyperthermia and hypothermia!

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 12:13:51 pm
content: Dave,Have you tested the maximum voltage is can read or withstand?The specifications say 1000 V DC. It will happy read over 1000 V, so there appears to no hard limit in the firmware. My 87 Fluke displays OL at 1000 V. Unfortunately (or fortunately!) I don't have the capability to test it at more than 1070 V. Is 1100V a limit some cheap meters have?Can it be pushed up to 6000V before the magic happens :-)

author: dave_
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 26, 2016, 08:47:12 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on May 25, 2016, 11:52:10 amIt's a great idea, I just hadn't thought of it.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2016, 04:05:45 pm
content: Quote from: dave_ on May 26, 2016, 08:47:12 amrs20 is right, it's a terrible idea.Typical inaccuracy on a multimeter thermocouple is terrible, relatively speaking. We are talking +/- several degrees at any temperature. If you are measuring your soldering iron tip temperature, maybe that's not too bad. If you are checking human body temperature for a fever, it is not acceptable in the least. OTOH, when done right, with a proper ice-water (or triple point) bath for the cold junction and a giant lookup table or high order polynomial calculations for the mV-temp conversion, then you can get very high absolute accuracy from a thermocouple. A handheld meter doesn't do that. It uses a thermistor to estimate the cold junction temperature (or worse, skips it and just assumes room temp), and probably uses linear interpolation on a conversion table with a few points spread over the several hundred degree range of the thing.

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2016, 07:02:51 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 05, 2016, 12:21:16 pmWhere does one sign up for the multimeter list?Is this for announcements re. order status and shipping?Thanks.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2016, 07:23:59 am
content: Quote from: iXod on May 29, 2016, 07:02:51 amNot in this forum but it's available from Daves store on the main EEVblog website:http://www.eevblog.com/store/

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2016, 09:38:22 pm
content: Don't see where to sign up. Link to sign-up page?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2016, 10:38:13 pm
content: Quote from: iXod on May 29, 2016, 09:38:22 pmI'm pretty sure Dave meant: signed up to buy.

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2016, 11:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 25, 2016, 10:20:28 pm"...once they get the notification."Apparently a sign-up list somewhere...

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 02:01:17 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 02, 2016, 06:25:41 amSounds like you need a case:http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/accessories/Cases-Holsters/CAMO-C25.htm?PID=78334A pouch inside the zippered cover to accommodate misc bits.

author: Hexureus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 05:00:00 pm
content: Hi Dave.Are you ordering more multimeter?I would like to buy one.Thank's

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2017, 03:05:52 am
content: I just received mine. Looks to be well designed and made. Looking forward to giving it a test spin. 👍