Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: SebastianW
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 09:58:12 pm
content: Hello,has anybody won the Scopemonth? I was very happy to win, but I do not know if there is an advantage, I have to pay at least 19% VAT in Germany.I know that Dave got his Oscilloscopes for free, no taxes,... . This is due to the fact the he got it from the local representative, the winners get it from Malaysia.Best Regards,Sebastian

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 10:25:58 pm
content: You're under no obligation to accept the free prize.Paying taxes sucks but I know if they draw my name I'll happily pay the taxes (12%) to get receive the scope.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 10:40:42 pm
content: We do 'Demo' units all the time with low or no value. For marketing quantities it seems to be fine and its legal. For units with value, it has to be claimed. Keysight must stay in good standing.How is FREE a marketing ploy? You have to pay tax if you purchased with your own money.Sent from my horrible mobile....

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 11:22:29 pm
content: I'm not a tax lawyer, but in the USA, aren't prize winnings taxed as regular income?So if you are in a 40% tax bracket (Federal + State income tax), then if you win a $30,000 scope, you owe $12,000 in taxes.Still a bargain for a $30,000 scope if you were ever willing to pay that much in the first place.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 11:23:17 pm
content: I keep saying, I found mine in the dumpster. I did not win anything.Companies send me free gear all the time, why Keysight can't do that to with the winners?, one word, lawyers.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 11:23:59 pm
content: 21% + extra customs taxes, for Spain.So, easily more than an 25%. Yeah, 1/4 of product value!However Spain is out the contest, no idea why.BTW congratulations Sebastian.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 11:47:19 pm
content: Don't enter, and don't accept the prize. Today they drew two because someone declined the prize.To me 50% discount is good and I actually NEED to the scope to step up my small business. I have all the tax issues worked out and planned for so that I can actually be thankful for a win.None of this is a new concept.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2016, 11:59:41 pm
content: My understanding is this is a US lottery. They even wont ship it until you pay 30% Tax to the IRS. Your local import fee and local tax is on top of that, and perhaps your local tax wont apply if your country is with a free trade agreement with the US. I'd very much like to see a post from a winner who actually received the prize to tell us how much he ended up paying.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 12:12:36 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 10, 2016, 11:42:01 pmIt does not matter where it ships from, i buy parts from Element14 paying Canadian tax and get parts shipped from Malasia.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:20:59 am
content: Quote from: Bud on March 10, 2016, 11:59:41 pmThat does not seem to make sense. Income taxes apply to a country's residents, i.e. they are applied on thereceivingend of a financial transaction. If e.g. I were to perform a contract job for a U.S. company, working from home in Germany, I don't see how U.S. income tax could be relevant. Similarly, I don't see how Keysight would be obliged to collect or deduct U.S. income tax if they send a scope to a winner who is based outside the U.S.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:26:36 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 11, 2016, 06:20:59 amHe was talking about American's. In the US all lotteries are taxable.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:42:46 am
content: Do you know that you will have to pay the duties? When I purchased a scope from Keysight's eBay store, it was shipped from Malaysia DDP, "Delivered Duty Paid", an international tax term where the sender pays the duty up front (in my case, I was of course charged the cost of the scope plus all taxes and duties by Keysight).

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:15:31 am
content: I won one of the 10 BenchVue prizes in the Dream Bench sweepstakes.Full set of licenses. $2400 fair market value. At my seriously high marginal tax rate (thanks California), that's a lot of taxes for sw that I mostly have no use for.I suspect a whole pile of people declined the prize before me and will do so after me.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:18:46 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on March 11, 2016, 06:26:36 amI was talking in general. For instance this is a quote fromhttp://www.lotteryusa.com/lottery/FAQS.htmlQuote

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:22:24 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 07:01:26 amSheesh, you must be the more miserable winner ever. Why did you bother to enter the contest if you don't even want the prize?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:30:31 am
content: SebastianW, I do not understand you either. It was your decision to play.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:59:47 am
content: I read somewhere recently that they send the prizes from the local representatives, so may be no tax ?would like to know if it is true !that's why only countries where they have representatives are allowed to play the game.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:05:07 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 onTodayat 08:59:47It would be no import duties, but there are other taxes, it's an income you has to declare as your salary.

author: marber
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:08:42 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 07:40:58 amSelling is an option you have, making a pretty good profit. And yet you're still complaining about getting ripped off?! KS isn't receiving the tax your government requires you to pay.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:20:21 am
content: Sebastian.I would be patient and wait to see if there are any taxes at all to pay.Either way, I do think it's rather ungracious to have entered a competition, where the terms and conditions are stated ("6. Taxes. All federal, state and/or local income and other taxes and duties, if any, are the winner's sole responsibility"), and then when you win that ~EUR20,000 prize you blame the competition organisers because your government, the one you elected, tax the prize.Here are your options:1. Wait for the prize and if you don't want to pay the taxes, then just don't accept delivery;2. Tell Keysight you can't accept the prize now, and they'll re-draw, just like they did yesterday;3. Offer the prize to someone else in return for them paying any taxes directly on your behalf plus some consideration of your choosing for your trouble.4. Pay any taxes and sell the scope at a significant profit.None of these have any downsides for you.There are an awful lot of people who would love to be in your position, to say you're sounding rather ungrateful would be an understatement. What a tough First World Problem to have to deal with!

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:28:56 am
content: Quote from: Bud on March 11, 2016, 07:18:46 amI find it hard to believe that a non-US resident winner of the scope would need to pay US tax.

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:46:07 am
content: I think you got that wrong, if you are in the US, but aren't a citizen, you pay that amount, am I right?

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:52:41 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 07:59:00 amGo have a word with your boss then, they can reclaim all the VAT.... then I'm sure they can find you something like a 4Ch Rigol from their "dumpster" that meets your needs. Technically thats all above board and everyone wins.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:53:33 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 11, 2016, 07:59:47 amExactly. Or to be more percise in tbe EC there should be no VAT, as VAT is a tax on consumer spending. This is providing the prize comes from Keysight or their local distributor within Europe. This does not appear to hold true if they send the prize directly to you from outside the EC area. However, there may be a tax on prize winnings in you local country. In the US they treat it as income, so you pay income tax, some other countries have gift of windfall taxes as well.

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:54:49 am
content: @sebastianI think you should be patient for now and just wait what they come up with, maybe it's better than you think

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:00:05 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 06:35:30 amI would trade my Agilent MSOX3024 with all options (all official) with LAN/VGA card. This is a much better solution than the Rigol (which I had before). If you are interested, drop me a PM. I am in Germany.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:07:48 am
content: I'm really hoping rx8pilot wins the next one, instead of yet another whiner who shouldn't have entered in the first place.It sounds like Keysight are doing what they can, but it may not be under their control. Some countries may tax you on the fair market value of what comes into the country regardless of what you paid or didn't. Even Dave's dumpster find might incur taxes for the recipient.I can only imagine that after all the moaning winners, Keysight is going to be reluctant to be as generous in the future.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:17:53 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 10, 2016, 11:42:01 pmOnly US citizens and legal US residents pay US taxes. So unless you hold an American passport or live over there then US taxes don't matter.BTW: income tax is, as the name implies, paid on income.Winning a scope is not income.QuoteNo, it won'tFor a scope the worst case is you pay VAT on the declared value (which is not the retail price!) and that's it. There's no import duty on these scopes, and it's not an income by any legal definition.

author: bktemp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:29:43 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on March 11, 2016, 09:17:53 amYou don't know German customs. If they don't believe the declared value, they look it up and take the true value instead of the declared one. So it is a gamble how much it will cost to get this scope if it is not shipped from inside the EU.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:33:38 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 11, 2016, 09:07:48 amExactly.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:43:11 am
content: Quote from: bktemp on March 11, 2016, 09:29:43 amAs I stated before, if it is shipped DDP from Malaysia as my last scope was from Keysight, the taxes are paid directly by the sender, and the recipient has no further taxes to pay to a third party.If they do ship your prize DDP, I would suggest it would be highly unlikely that Keysight would even think about invoicing you for any tax they paid on your behalf for a competition prize.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:29:54 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 11, 2016, 09:07:48 amCamon, dont be hard on the guy. Probably if he would have won a 3000 series, he would gladly pay that few hundred EUR tax, but he got an over expensive product. Especially that most of that cost is the software upgrade. I mean, they could just send him probably a MSOX4024A (no I did not look up if the ardware is the same) and email a bunch of unlock codes, and save him thousands. Instead, they decided to screw him with legal.Congratulations. I hope your situation on the scope will be sorted out.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:33:52 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on March 11, 2016, 10:29:54 amThey have offered winners the option of a cheaper model to save on taxes.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:49:12 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on March 11, 2016, 10:29:54 amOK, in what way exactly is Keysight "screwing" the winner of a $20k+ prize?If the winner is so disappointed with his exceptionally good fortune is to simply reject the prize and let it go back to the pot for others who will be appreciative of such a windfall.Or send it to me, I'll pay any taxes, and I'll gift him my 1 month old MSOX3054A intra-EU (ie, no taxes) in return.

author: marber
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 11:29:14 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 11, 2016, 10:49:12 amExactly, there's probably a whole queue of people ready to happily take that problem off the OP's shoulders.Honestly, if I were Keysight and I'd read these very ungrateful and even insulting posts on a public forum, I'd probably simply retract the draw and offer it to someone else who is actually happy with it the next day.Yes, it's a marketing stunt, but a very reasonable and generous one which can only benefit the winner, and in no way forces anyone to do anything they don't want or didn't know upfront. Or ruin their life.There are of course reasons why a company may be able to offer a large prize pool with minimized legal risks but isn't willing to also bear the imposed taxes involved. Doing that would certainly diminish the size of the prize pool - keep in mind that e.g. the actual costs to Keysight to donate these scopes is significantly less than their MSRP. In certain other circumstances theymaybe willing to take the full cost including taxes when there's a substantial value to them, e.g. a video blogger with many viewers of the right audience that can have a large positive effect on sales. Clearly, any random (potentially ungrateful) prize winner out there may not have that same effect, or even take it in the opposite direction.

author: Ivan7enych
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 12:09:42 pm
content: Hm, for example if I live in california, just to pay taxes (30% or more? ) for some intermediate model, for example MSOX3032T (350MHz, 2+16chanels), I'll pay 8000$*30% = 2400$ at least.And finally after many troubles I will get full analog of my Rigol MSO2072 (unlocked to 300MHz and taken for 1200$). Yeah, Keysight is a brand, touchscreen is nice, there must be more software features...

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 12:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: bktemp on March 11, 2016, 09:29:43 amAs a German who spent most of his life in Germany and who had to deal with a lot of import/export issues during his career I do know the often pretty nasty behavior of German customs.QuoteYes, but that's how pretty much all customs departments operate, Germany, UK, US, you name it. And they'll do that mostly for vastly under-declared stuff, i.e. a lot of the crap that comes from China which is marked as "gift" or "$3 value" while its well over $100. They're unlikely to question the declared value of a piece of test equipment sent by the manufacturer.Also, if that happens you can object to their assessment if you believe it is wrong, and if they're unwilling to accept it then go to court.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 12:24:23 pm
content: Quote from: Ivan7enych on March 11, 2016, 12:09:42 pmYou don't pay 30% on a scope that's imported from outside the US. You pay some import duty (how much depends on the country of origin, but it's nowhere near 30%) plus if you live in CA you'll have to pay state tax.I really wish people would stop panicking over baseless assumptions and just get clued up on what tax & duty on an imported scope really are. (i.e. either read the regulations or ask customs)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 12:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on March 11, 2016, 12:24:23 pmIt is not that simple. Actually there can be up to four kind of taxes at play here depending on local laws:- Import duties- VAT- Income taxes- Gambling taxesImport duties and VAT can be handled by Keysight if they deliver the price through a local dealer or a dealer which is in the same VAT area (like the EU). But then there are still income and/or gambling taxes.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 01:13:59 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on March 10, 2016, 11:59:41 pmNot exactly. A couple years ago I won an item through another Agilent contest. Similar to this one, that contest was open to Canada, USA, and many other countries. I did not pay anything to the US government or even to Canada. Agilent named itself the importer and they paid the import taxes! (HST in Ontario, Canada).To the OP: I would be al too happy to have the "burden" of paying only 19 cents on the dollar for a top-notch piece of gear. Once it is yours, you can do anything you want, including selling it. However, I read that a stipulation of accepting the prize is giving a written quote about how you use the gear, for Keysight to use in marketing. Certainly you could make something up... or write about how easy it is to use right out of the box, then put it right back in the box and sell it on.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 01:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 11, 2016, 09:07:48 amHaha, yeah, that poor international corporation, I bet its feelings are hurt now!Do you really think Keysight is giving away these scopes because they're feeling generous? They do it because it's free advertisement. If nothing else, it generates hits on their YouTube videos (which are ads, plain and simple). Otherwise they would have to purchase ads on YouTube, which everyone filters out or skips anyway. Try to get someone to watch a 5 minute ad. To reach this many people from their target audience, they would otherwise have to spend millions of $$$ in ads.Now BTT, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread. I live in Germany and buy stuff from all over the world. Here's the deal: if you receive ANYTHING from outside the EU, you have to pay 19% import tax. This is the same 19% VAT that you'd pay in a store. The reason for this is that otherwise everyone would just buy stuff from foreign countries and circumvent the VAT.There's also customs, but there are hardly tariffs on anything anymore. At least for electronics, there's no customs to be paid.Essentially, anything that's bigger than a padded envelope will be held by customs. You have to prove to them how much the goods are worth, by providing a PayPal or credit card statement. If you can't prove the value, the customs officer will determine it himself, usually to your disadvantage. It also doesn't matter if it's a gift or free or whatever. You receive it, you pay the 19%. No way around that.Now, the question is, why can't they send the prize from one of their distributors? I mean, they want you to BUY from the distributor. If you buy from overseas, they get pissed and deny you the warranty. If they don't want to ruin their little ad campaign, they'd be sending him the scope from a German distributor, because right now, the whole company is looking like a bunch of incompetent bureaucrats.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 01:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 11, 2016, 10:49:12 amKeysight did not offer him a cheaper scope, someone from the forum did.My issue is not that they are giving away scopes. My issue is that they are doing zero effort to reduce the costs involved with winning this scope.Its like giving someone on the street money, but putting it too high (like on top of a lamp post) for him to actually reach.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 01:50:52 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on March 11, 2016, 01:38:36 pmI doubt you will see many American winners complaining even though they will need to pay income tax on the winnings, which will likely amount to a lot more than the EU VAT.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 01:58:47 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on March 11, 2016, 01:50:52 pmIt is a life situation thing. Some people can pay x amount for something, some people cannot. I personally at this moment would not be able to pay several thousand euros for a scope, because I would need the money for something else.BTW I hear a lot Americans complain that they have to pay half as much for fuel as we do. It is all relative.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 02:21:17 pm
content: Don´t loose your towel and: Don´t panic!From the scopemonth thread:Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 01, 2016, 08:43:14 pmKeysight has a sales office in germany:Keysight Technologies Deutschland GmbHHerrenberger Str. 13071034 BöblingenThere is no VAT if it is distributed from the german sales office.Like this:Quote from: macboy on March 11, 2016, 01:13:59 pmThat´s the "magic carpet" which takes scopes without VAT into Dave´s dumpster...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 02:26:12 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2016, 01:33:05 pmI think they are trying to evade taxes alsoThe benefit of sending the scope directly from the production will result in the real production costs used for tax purposes. They could do it also via local distributors but then the distributors would know the production costs, which are lower than what they have to pay when reselling scopes. No manufacturer want the distributors to know such sensitive details. If they would use the reseller's price to fix that it would increase taxes/duties for them too. I'd assume the real cost for the sweepstake is less then US$500000 (that number is based on the retail prices).There are also issues with VAT for a prize, i.e. if a company has to declare VAT or can reclaim VAT when giving away a prize. Managing that for several countries must be a nightmare.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 03:17:34 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2016, 01:33:05 pmNobody is suggesting that a company has hurt feelings, but whoever is on charge of this contest may decide it didn't go well and not too do another one on the future.

author: SimonWasAnEngineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:03:20 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 03:53:06 pmDaniel from Keysight is pretty active in the other Scopemonth thread and he seems to be the one who is in charge of this whole giveaway. Did you try contact him?From what i read there they are really trying their best to help another user who won.The contract you posted contains only things that are in the terms and conditions aswell, so you should have read them before you entered the contest.Why should a mathematical question be an ethnic discrimination if it is required be the local government?

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:07:45 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 03:53:06 pmDon't be silly, it's not discrimination its running an international competition which involves all sorts of local laws regarding competitions.... if you don't like your local rules then don't enter

author: signals
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 10, 2016, 11:42:01 pmBeing a little over dramatic, don't you think? It's especially insulting to come on to a forum where many of us would love to win the prize you were just awarded, just to complain about it.So, the scope is worth approximately 20,000 USD, give or take. We'll use your number of 50% tax. So you'd pay ~10,000 in tax for the scope. Leave it in the box, put it in Buy/Sell/Wanted or on an auction site as NIB, and price it at 15,000 USD. Someone will buy it. Take the 15,000 from the sale, pay the 10,000 in tax, then use the 5,000 to buy a more affordable scope.How does that ruin your life?

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: signals on March 11, 2016, 04:09:56 pmIndeed, some people are never happy... Try reading all the rules before entering and set your expectations accordingly.

author: signals
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 03:53:06 pmIt's the only way it's legal in Canada:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skill_testing_questionI think you are misplacing your anger. Maybe you should be upset with your government for the taxes they want to collect, rather than be upset with Keysight for giving you a free scope?

author: Halfdead
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:45:16 pm
content: If you don't want it, I'll take it.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 04:51:34 pm
content: If it's going to ruin your life, turn down the prize. They're not going to FORCE you to accept it.-Pat

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:04:36 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on March 11, 2016, 01:13:59 pmThat makes Canada an ideal place for sweepstakers to live inWhat was the item value? I recall there is a $600 threshold IRS applies to wins.

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:28:02 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 03:53:06 pmGod almighty, I don't think Keysight could have possibly chosen a bigger asshole to give a prize to. I thought you were making a joke when you started, but clearly you really are that arrogant, ungrateful, stupid, and angry. Now it's about "ethnic discrimination". Why am I not surprised that you view yourself as a victim?Not being on the hook for any applicable taxes is a common clause in every international "giveaway". Keysight doesn't receive those funds, your government does, shallow thinker.(also, they won't be paying for the electricity the scope consumes or a rental fee for the space taken up on your bench)

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:32:44 pm
content: Hi Everyone (and Sebastien),As you all know, we've been working through how to make life easier for winners. Initially, we were communicating to winners that they might be responsible for more taxes than they actually are responsible for.We've made it abundantly clear to both Sebastian and the other winners are ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN LOCAL TAXES! Not USA taxes, not Malaysian taxes, just local taxes. I believe Germany is just 19%. Also, you may have seen that we have been talking to winners to potentially substitute a lower cost scope for the 1 GHz model if they desire. This is a case-by-case offer, we'll talk if you win.Good luck to everyone! I'll do my best to keep up with the forum and update you guys as appropriate.-Daniel

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:34:49 pm
content: I believe awarding the prize is at Keysight's discretion, according to the terms.Given the unwarranted, vicious bashing of Keysight by this "winner" I would withdraw the prize an pick another winner.Why would you want to reward someone who's slandering your company?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:36:23 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 03:53:06 pmDrama queen. You don"t even know you're going to be charged a penny in local tax by your government (not Keysight) anyway, and you're bleating on about it. Indications now are that it may well come from your local distributor with no taxes due from you at all.Even if you are to be charged tax, re-read the options I gave you. Which one of them is going to ruin your life exactly?QuoteYou win a $20k+ prize and you don't think it's fair? FFS!QuoteWith that last comment you don't deserve any prize and should not accept it, and let someone else have the opportunity. If you had any clue, rather than making wild accusations, you would realise that there are local laws restricting games of chance, and to make it work in certain jurisdictions you have to make it a game of skill. Far from deliberately discriminating, the organisers are trying to be more inclusive. At the very least you should apologise and withdraw the accusation.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:39:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2016, 12:42:59 pmIt is really that simple.Income tax is tax onfinancialincome, earned or not earned. Winning a scope is not a financial income,not in the US andnot in the EU, and hence there is no income tax due on goods won at sweepstakes.Gambling taxes which exist in some countries is a tax that is due when gambling in a gambling facility (like online casinos, real casinos, non-free sweepstakes, lotteries and such). Free sweepstakes like the Keysight one don't fall under gambling because the punters don't pay to participate or pay to win, which is pretty much the core of gambling. There are a few other regulations (i.e. some countries require that there are conditions on participating, i.e. answering a very simple question) but at the end of the day the thing is that these sweepstakes are not gambling.The only thing the winner could be hit with is import duty and VAT/sales tax. Import duty depends on a few factors, one of them where the scope was made, and if you're in the US or the EU, but in general there won't be any import duty for the scopes Keysight offers in their sweepstakes. VAT/sales tax has to be paid, but it pretty much depends on who acts as the importer - the winner or Keysight. Since Keysight has representations in most countries I guess they will act as a importer. If not then the winner is liable for it, it which case I'd ask Keysight what the declared value of the scope is (which should be noticably lower than RRP).Everything else like gambling tax, inheritance tax, repatriation tax, bee keepers tax, Trump tax or any other tax that some people in this forum seem to be afraid of has no relevance to winning at these sweepstakes.All this is pretty much a lot of noise about nothing, and it's disappointing that the OP has decided to start his silly rant instead of doing at least a basic fact check with the German Zoll and the Finanzamt. There's hardly a way better way to make yourself look like a complete moron

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 05:47:06 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on March 11, 2016, 05:39:09 pmYou're wrong. In the US and many other taxing jurisdictions prizes are a form of income, and are taxed as such. If the prize is non-cash, taxes are based on the cash value of the prize.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:02:10 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on March 11, 2016, 05:47:06 pmYou are right.QuoteThat's indeed the case, I just checked. The US does treat goods winnings as income. My bad.But that is certainly not the case in the EU. There could be an income tax liability when/if the scope is sold later, but not because it was just won.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on March 11, 2016, 05:47:06 pmSo how does the IRS find out about something you won in a foreign country? Unless you tell them, that is. In any case, you could still receive the scope, sell it, pay your taxes and keep the change.The problem that the OP has is that he has to pay up front. When the scope arrives, he'll get a letter from the local customs office that tells him to show up there along with the invoice/proof of value. They'll ask for the 19% in cash. If he refuses to pay or can't pay, the package will be returned to the sender.

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:23:29 pm
content: Somehow international tax laws aren't like Ohm's law.US taxpayers are subject to federal income tax, state income tax, state sales tax...Canada is subject to 30% US federal withholding tax, possible state withholding.Other countries, including Germany, have no US withholding:QuoteDisclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about.Hopefully Keysight can minimize the hassle/expense.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:27:39 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on March 11, 2016, 06:23:29 pmOhms Law is based on physics which we (humans) do not get to negotiate. Tax laws are based on the whimsical thoughts and desires of the law makers on any particular day - generally absent of logic or fairness.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 11, 2016, 09:07:48 amI like your style.....indeed I have planned ahead for the possibility of winning. That way, I can truly jump up and down if I am the lucky winner!My little business needs a boost almost desperately. If luck provides that boost, Ill take it! I went out on a long limb getting into electronics design and manufacturing and it's a little scary right about now.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:34:12 pm
content: To me this all sounds like standard contest stuff and clearly stated in the rules:"6.TaxesAll federal, state and/or local income and other taxes and duties, if any, are the winner's sole responsibility"They have to follow laws; if KeySight took the burden of taxes, they would have to figure regulations for each contest winner down to the local level AND figure out how to pay them in each area. That's not reasonably workable. Similar problems with trying to do the same going thru distributors, plus coordination overhead, plus additional cost overhead.To me it sounds like people signed up for the contest without read the rules and not thinking about laws.Don't think KeySight did anything wrong here, but maybe could have made the tax thing more upfront.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 06:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on March 11, 2016, 06:23:29 pmThis is the goal!

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:08:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 10, 2016, 11:23:17 pmI asked ourlawyersthe same question! Turns out laws regarding sweepstakes/contests/giveaways are different. It's sad for everyone, but the upside is you get a scope!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:17:01 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 11, 2016, 07:08:25 pmA simple way around it is to sell a scope for $1 to the winners.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:35:32 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2016, 07:17:01 pmTried it, the only thing that changes is that the prize value is $1 lower per scope.Unless we offered everyone a $1 scope...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 11, 2016, 07:35:32 pmI like that idea! Since the beginning of the scopemonth I have been wanting to buy one, and for that price, I will by a couple at least

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:42:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2016, 07:17:01 pmHaha.Do you think you you're the first one to come up with that? What do you think your chances of success are trying that on a German customs officer? I bet they get 20 guys like that every day.No, the simple way would be for Keysight to send the freaking scope to their local office or to their distributor. Because right now, it looks like they don't even take their own contest seriously. Hey, why not just dump the scope in a parking lot in Malaysia and let the "winner" come pick it up himself?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:46:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2016, 07:17:01 pmI have a number of customers in Germany and many other countries. They laugh at this, hold the package and investigate. When they find that you are a fraud, you get in big trouble, one of which is an immediate band on your shipments. Somehow, I don't think Keysight is willing to throw legitimate German business down the drain for a freebie promotional scope.

author: joesixpack
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 07:55:17 pm
content: This is why I don't rely on the internet for tax advice. I will say I'm afflicted with schadenfreude at reading the comments from people in socialist countries infuriated about paying taxes.In the US -Yes, sweepstakes winnings are counted as income. Keysight will send you a 1099-MISC in January of next year, which will end up on line 21 of your 1040. You will have the rest of the year to scratch up the taxes, or sell the scope. In most sweepstakes, they will give you the option of taking the cash value, as cash. Depending on the state, they may be required to allow you to do this.They've already said you could substitute a scope of a lower value.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:09:50 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 10, 2016, 11:23:17 pmMore accurately, governments and legislators in certain countries.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:24:21 pm
content: Looking through all the documentation I can certainly see why it looks as if the OP has to pay US tax and German VAT.Why would an EU citizen need to fill in multiple US tax documents.At previous pointed out, there would be no problem if the scopes here sent from within the EC or from local distributors in other countries.If this cannot be done, can winners pick up the scopes directly from Keysight in Malaysia, or get them sent to a friend there?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 11, 2016, 07:35:32 pmSales will certainly go up. Profits will likely suffer a bit, diminishing the ability and need for any future promotions.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:45:52 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 11, 2016, 07:46:45 pmPlease keep paying attention! VAT and customs charges are not a problem because those can be handled by importing through a local dealer or office. Once imported there are the income and gambling taxes which may need to be dealt with. Since it is a free market companies are free to price their gear however they want or offer discounts the way they like. Many products have student, hobbiest, university, etc pricing.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:46:28 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 08:33:15 pmYou don't owe the IRS a penny, you won't need to fill out those forms. You are not a US citizen, you don't live in the US, you don't have a US passport, you were not born in the US, the scope is not going to be in the US. The IRS is completely irrelevant to you. Forget the form.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:49:40 pm
content: Keysight will not send the scope until he sends them the completed forms back. Have a read of the document they sent him.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 11, 2016, 07:46:45 pmThat's correct, while it may be de rigeur for Chinese sellers to falsify commercial invoices, it's not helpful to presume a seller will be willing to falsify a declaration. You might think you're getting away with it, but the last thing any company wants, big or small, is a tax investigation.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 08:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on March 11, 2016, 08:49:40 pmThat's ... kafkaesque.

author: Armxnian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:05:19 pm
content: If you have to pay income tax, then you have to include income on your tax return. That's actually bad if you receive financial aid for school. So you will get less, if any aid from the gov. even though you didn't actually make any more money. The only thing that should really count as income is if you win the lottery. I don't see how a scope helps you pay for rent or food. You are still as financially dependent on the gov. to pay some of your tuition as before. To get the scope you have to pay taxes to get it, so you lose value there. Plus if you sell it, there is potential to lose further money on the actual value of the scope. If you receive significant aid for two semesters, winning the scope can actually cause you to lose money. The amount of loans you can take can also be affected.I'd love to win the scope, but there seems to be risk involved. Risk that cannot be fully calculated from a FAFSA perspective.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:09:38 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on March 11, 2016, 08:49:40 pmW8BEN is the only form for him to fill out as a non-Us cotizen residing outside the US.https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdfQuote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2016, 08:56:16 pmIndeed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 11, 2016, 08:56:16 pmI agree. It doesn't make sense to ship from a different country (VAT area) because of the VAT and customs charges private persons are subjected to.

author: joesixpack
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 08:33:15 pmDid you win a scope or are you just curious?The above is only applicable to a US citizen. I'm not sure what the tax ramifications would be for you. I could only find one article on the subject, where a business in the US ran a sweepstakes on Facebook and was giving away a $19.95 product. A person in Germany won, and the package got held by customs. The business paid the $300 tax to keep the winner happy.I would suspect that if you won, someone at Keysight would contact you directly and answer your questions.

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 08:33:15 pmWelcome to the nightmare of US tax bureaucracy.You don't fill out a 1099 form.According the your instructions, you fill out W-8BEN. That's where you certify you are a resident of Germany and therefore do not have any US tax withheld.There is enough money involved here that you might want to consult a professional if you have questions.The forms are mainly so KeySight can cover their ass with the IRS.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 08:33:15 pmHi Sebastian, you have our number and our e-mail. If you have any questions about forms, etc., please follow up on those communications. Thanks!

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 09:40:13 pm
content: With the extreme level of whinging and playing the race card, I suspect "Sebastian" is nothing more than a 13 year old script kiddie who hit the jackpot by easily scripting plenty of applications in numerous names and easy throwaway email addresses. He didn't count on having to give a real ID and having more than his pocket money allowance to temporarily pay the import VAT while his full intention, not being an electronics engineer, was to flip it on ebay and come out with $10,000+ pure profit.Of course I may be wrong, but his tantrums are ridiculous. Surely Keysight can simply ban him (like check for a few duplicate IP addresses, or known TOR/VPN exit nodes?) for entering the comp in bad faith.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:05:25 pm
content: meh. He just freaked out when he saw the legal docco he had to sign as well as the required US tax document.Which is understandable as it is not clear exactly what he is committing to when he signs it.Obviously talking to Keysight and doing some research/seeking advice is all he needs to do.

author: joeybagodonuts
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:06:00 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 11, 2016, 07:59:47 amDaniel has said it time and time again: prize winner is ONLY responsible for their state/country of origin's taxes, so ONLY if you live in the USA do you have to deal with US taxes.http://www.ey.com/GL/en/Services/Tax/Worldwide-VAT--GST-and-Sales-Tax-Guide---RatesIsreal- 18%, Denmark- 25%, Finland- 24%--- so by golly, Germany's 19% doesn't seem all that bad!So Sebastian, it's not just you. Every single winner will have to deal with taxes, and you aren't alone in that. The taxes are still FAR less than what you'd pay for a new scope.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:40:56 pm
content: This whole tax thing is pretty normal for winning prizes. It does become difficult when you win an item vs cash. Winning cash you just give half of it (or whatever) to the overlords. Winning an item you end up having to pay the taxes yourself.Many people winning many types of gifts are unable to keep the item due to taxes.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:49:21 pm
content: Ill pay the VAT, fly to Germany and bring it back in my checked luggage with fingers crossed.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 10:50:22 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 10:35:07 pmIf you refuse the package and send it back you won't owe anything, so there is no way they can ruin your financial situation.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2016, 11:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 11, 2016, 10:49:21 pmIf you were able to get a tax invoice and a receipt for the VAT you should be able to claim it back at the border.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 01:17:39 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on March 11, 2016, 10:40:56 pmNot here. In Germany is not such thing like tax on winning prizes. Example:You win 10 000 000 € in a lottery. You get the whole 10 millions. Giving to the overlords:NOTHING.In the next years you make interest income, let´s say 400 000 € a year. On this you have to pay tax (25%),neverfor the 10 milion of the winning.For winning an item it is the same.Paying somewhat for a winning prize is absolute uncommon in Germany.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 04:41:53 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 12, 2016, 01:17:39 amVery interesting indeed. I did not know that.It is sadly par for the course here in the U.S..

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 08:32:49 am
content: There is no tax paid on lotteries in Canada either. However if I enter a contest that is based outside of Canada and I win something that will need to be imported into the country it will be taxable.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 09:04:39 am
content: This thread reminds me of the fun that washttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/my-ebay-hantek-buying-hell/

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 10:14:59 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on March 11, 2016, 10:40:56 pmNo, actually, this is pretty much a US (and where else the tax code is based on US tax laws) thing. Like taxing US citizens living abroad on income earned abroad.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 10:45:52 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 12, 2016, 01:17:39 amTherefore it's seen as a fraud if you have to pay some money to get your prize. It's a classic fraud schema. You get a letter or phone call claiming that you've won some prize, e.g. a car. But you have to pay some fee or whatever to get the prize. You pay and never get the prize. If a German has to pay VAT for importing a prize it feels like a fraud too. It's cultural thing.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 11:21:51 am
content: Yes, paying something to get a prize is considered a strong hint of fraud in Germany and usually connected to some form of scam. This is something a German would expect in a mail from Nigeria but not from a world company like Keysight

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 11:53:12 am
content: You could start your own business, get a business license "Gewerbeschein" get an EU VAT number "DExxxxxxxxxxx" and claim the VAT for this scope in the first month with the "Finanzamt" and you will have the VAT back right away. All completely legal AND above board.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 12:01:09 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on March 12, 2016, 11:53:12 am... as long as the scope stays your company's asset. When you close your save-VAT-when-inporting-expensive-prizes business the company assets become your private assets and guess what, you have to pay VAT for the current value of the assets.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 01:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 12:23:38 pmChrist, give it a rest please Sebastian. I really hope now that you don't get any prize at all, you certainly don't deserve diddly squat. You aren't behaving like someone who purports to have two patents to their name.Are you going to be like this when you have to get a job in a few years time, accusing your employers of being scammers when they deduct tax from your pay?Quote from: SebastianW on March 11, 2016, 10:48:00 pmAre you not old enough to have an eBay account or something?Right now the only thing "ruining your life" is you bitching and moaning about a hypothetical problem of your own making.As several of us have already stated, simply don't accept the prize and let those who, unlike you, would be appreciative of such a windfall a chance, and you can forget about the whole thing. There, I fixed it for you, what's the problem?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 01:27:50 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 12:23:38 pmMay be people like you are the reason why Keysight is not offering their prizes in some countries.I can not believe how low you are taking this.As so many have said before, just refuse to accept the prize and close the subject.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 01:35:58 pm
content: I have to agree.It's simple...* Keysight want to promote their products (I mean theyarea business that sells products)* Keysight is offering a number of prizes (which have got people's attention)* These prizes are available to people in countries where Keysight has been able tocomply with local legislation(If you're in a country that's not included - you should try checking outyour own country's legistlation.)* For any tax/customs issues you have - blame your legislators NOT Keysight..... and for bonus points:* Keysight are actively working with prizewinners to assist with thelegislators' inducedhardship.How can you beat up on a company that's doing standard business practice AND going the extra mile?I would be over the moon with a $5k scope - but one worth 3 times that (or more) would be mind blowing. However, being in Australia means I can't even look at entering the scopemonth competition - but do you hear me bleating about that? The fact that Dave is able to offer something in a similar vein is a rare thing indeed - and for that I am grateful.But for the ability to be able to enter ANY competitions here in Australia and not have to worry about taxation, I have to THANK the law makers here.As for Daniel at Keysight, I'll make you this offer ... if you're ever in Sydney, I'll shout you lunch. Not because I want anything out of it other than letting you know your efforts are appreciated.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 02:47:19 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 12:23:38 pmWow... That is really absurd. You can't expect to be taken seriously with this kind of comparison, do you? You really come across as a person with a sense of entitlement so high that it must be others' faultyoudid not read the rules. When I lived in Brazil I was always careful not to enter these contests and giveaways before doing my homework and analyzing if it was affordable to win - differently than Germany, where you "only" pay1/5of the price, in Brazil you would end up paying 100% or more. That makes you think twice.I wonder why you think that Keysight must workaround the government tax for you: you have been warned in the contest rules. Also, the prize is physically located in Malaysia (and not Germany) and therefore they would have to deal with the paperwork to transfer the prize.Don't like the fact you won the jackpot? Give the opportunity away. Keysight is not in the wrong here.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 06:03:52 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 12:23:38 pmKeysight should pull the plug on you.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 06:24:47 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 12:23:38 pmPlease allow me to be scammed into a 4000x for only the cost of the government mandated taxes."I don't always get scammed......but when I do, I get scammed by Keysight", said the most technical man in the world.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 06:37:13 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 06:35:40 pmNo they can't.Accept the prize under the conditions you agreed, or refuse it and shut up.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 06:53:28 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 09:16:15 amI was suggesting you sound as unreasonable as Mikey2016 did in that thread. And your response really confirms that.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 06:54:52 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 12, 2016, 01:17:39 amIt doesn't work that way in the NL so it has to be similar in Germany and... it is!https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennwett-_und_LotteriegesetzIn the NL lotteries are obliged to specify prices with taxes paid and it seems that is the same in Germany.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 07:07:44 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 12, 2016, 06:54:52 pmNo, that law only applies to the company or organisation who runs the lottery. If you sell lottery tickets, you have to pay tax on that. Has nothing to do with the winner of the lottery. The win is tax-free, but only if the win was based solely on pure luck, like drawing a random name from a pile of names. If you had to solve some riddle to win the prize, it will be taxed.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 07:23:39 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 06:50:01 pmWhy can you not issue an invoice or receipt? Seems a perfectly reasonable request. You don't need to be a company or VAT registered to issue a receipt confirming the sale of a personal item. Simply a piece of paper with the same details as that you'd get from shop when you buy washing powder.In addition you're hardly helping yourself regarding price, I can hardly imagine this being a troublefree transaction bearing in mind your temper tantrums. 50% without a receipt is not a very good deal for a business purchase as it'll be difficult for the company to show it as a business purchase without simple documentation, so it will likely be taxed as personal income instead. Add the receipt and you'll have a lot more luck. I doubt there'll be many individuals willing to pay that sort of money for a scope for personal use. I would also be careful not to be too greedy, the amount you're talking about is perilously close to money laundering triggers which will certainly complicate the transaction.Can we assume you have an eBay or Paypal account?Better still, just don't take the prize at all. You've not told us why you won't do that and save your "life from ruin".

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 07:25:09 pm
content: You look like someone who hardly could buy an used analog scope and who want an highly sofisticated dso.If you had won a Ferrari car, for sure, you would complain that maintenance is to expensive.You are not fair at all with Keysight.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 08:24:37 pm
content: Decline the prize! Easy. Done.You lost this contest before you won by being unable and unaware of how the world works. Keysight is indeed giving away free equipment. No, they won't pay your tax liability.No, I will not send you a Rigol scope and pay your VAT bill as you requested in a DM. I would prefer that you decline the prize and let a deserving person win it instead.Send them an email, tell them you cannot accept. In 30 seconds, this stupid bullshit you are pulling will be over. Someone else will get a chance. Be a good person and do the right thing.Sent from mobile device.... Keeping it short and mis-spelled

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 09:04:10 pm
content: Wow, this topic draws an amazing amount of hate.As far as i see it, Sebastians options are rather limited, if he can't pay german tax.1. He could decline the prize.2. Keysight could deliver locally3. Keysight might swap it to cheaper scope and he pay tax for that one.Selling is not really an option.If he isn't a company he can't write a tax invoice. No company would buy his scope under this condition.A private buyer is rather improbable. Keep in mind Germany does't really have a great private market for high prized scopes.If he sells internationally he would get into tax-hell part two, now from the other side.In both cases he would have to pay additionally income tax for selling the scope.If he registers a company for selling the scope he gets stuck with eu warranty law and ultimativly some form of tax again, for selling the scope.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 09:05:20 pm
content: Option 1.Sent from my horrible mobile....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 09:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: XynxNet on March 12, 2016, 09:04:10 pmActually this isn't a bad idea but would take some effort to go to the registration office and get some information on what kind of company to register. If he gets the scope through his company then I he could sell it on more easely to a company and (in the long run) avoid having to pay the import taxes.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 09:37:17 pm
content: Quote from: XynxNet on March 12, 2016, 09:04:10 pmIndeed, bizarrely Sebastian has accused Keysight of ethnic discrimination and being akin to Nigerian Scammers, and of ruining his life.QuoteHe could if he took up a number of the offers he's been given here, including mine, but with regret I no longer would want to deal with this individual, I can't exactly see it being a smooth transaction.QuoteThat seems to be the most viable option now bearing in mind his attitude.QuoteActually you'd be surprised. I've travelled to the US to pick up an HP VNA and to Germany just to pick up an Anritsu Site Master, both from private sellers, for my company. For the right price, people are prepared to work to get a deal. He doesn't need to issue a tax invoice, just a hand written receipt with the same details you'd get from a supermarket purchase, of course he won't have a VAT number as a private sale, that has no relevance as to whether he can issue a receipt or not. How does it work when you enter Germany with your foreign purchases you declare from abroad? Surely you don't go to the trouble of getting a tax invoice from the seller, a receipt is enough.I agree, a private buyer is unlikely considering the value, but you never know.QuoteHe doesn't need to set up a company.I'm pretty sure now he's a minor who's seriously out of his depth who didn't read and understand the terms and conditions, isn't used to be accountable or taking responsibilty for his own actions, and the sooner he comes clean about the real reasons for his extraordinary behaviour the better.

author: stuartk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2016, 11:44:45 pm
content: QuoteHi Sebastian,Exactly what sort of deal are you looking for?I'm sure Keysight would redirect your scope to the person of your choosing elsewhere, and liberate you from the need to pay taxes.They also said they would send you a cheaper scope. Just say exactly what you want and someone on the list will probably work it out with you.Stuart

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 12:11:38 am
content: Why would Sebastian even bother selling it when he "has access" to a company with 70-100 scopes? Clearly they will be VAT registered and could take this prize at absolutely zero cost to them. If he is a valued employee with 2 patents to his name I am sure they will earmark it for his own use it at his own discretion, providing it is for employee training purposes, etc...Or he could cut a deal with a disposal of couple of existing capital asset scopes (I mean they have 30 scopes in the ether) for free or de-minimus?

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 03:22:37 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 06:57:06 pmIf I am lucky enough to win a scope I would gladly pay whatever tax that incurs. But with the drama and lack of common sense you've displayed this far, making a deal with you sounds like it would be a very unpleasant experience. No thanks.Why are you still wasting Keysight's time? Just tell them you don't want it so they can give it to someone who will appreciate it.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 09:26:31 am
content: Quote from: XynxNet on March 12, 2016, 09:04:10 pmTrue, but instead of discussing his options with Keysight, getting clued up about the facts or simply declining the scope he decided to publicly attack Keysight insteadQuoteThat's not true, I've myself sold quite a few very high priced technical items to businesses. If the price is attractive they don't really care about VAT, all what matters is the bottom line.QuoteNo, he wouldn't. Import taxes are the buyer's problem. If he sells to someone say the US then the buyer is responsible for paying customs and sales tax (where applicable).In addition, he could easily sell EU wide.QuoteNot necessarily, it depends on his overall tax circumstances. Any competent Steuerberater will gladly tell him how much he would have to pay.QuoteThere's no EU warranty law. There are EU regulations that member nations have to convert into national laws. I know that this particular point seems to be hard to get for many Germans, which is the reason why German ebay is full of silly disclaimers stating that EU law mandates they provide some warranty (and no, 'Gewaehrleistung' is not the same as 'Garantie').As a company, distance selling (right to return) and Gewaehrleistung aren't an issue if you sell to another business, it's only an issue if you sell to a consumer (private buyer). But registering a company just for selling a scope would be silly.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 11:22:14 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on March 13, 2016, 09:26:31 amI know, but it doesn't translate very well in a foreign language and a more precise reply in german would be rather pointless on an international forum...mh?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 11:22:22 am
content: Quote from: stuartk on March 12, 2016, 11:44:45 pmI don't think Keysight will do it. From their terms and conditions:No substitution, transfer, or assignment of the prize is permitted, except that Keysight reserves the right to substitute a prize of equivalent value in the event the offered prize is unavailable..... otherwise he could have it sent to me and I'd sell it to buy him his Rigol.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 11:25:41 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on March 13, 2016, 09:26:31 amAsk yourself: would you be happy if you win a $1 million Rolls-Royce car for free but need to pay $200k in taxes to receive it? I think you'll go slightly mad as well

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 11:34:09 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 12, 2016, 06:50:01 pmYou, as a person without any business, may write an invoice. Please seehttps://www.lexoffice.de/lexikon/privatrechnungen/for an example. Or you could go for a sale and purchase agreement which is also a proper document for accounting. Yes, it's that simple!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 11:49:01 am
content: Quote from: XynxNet on March 12, 2016, 09:04:10 pmNot for the gross list price. But with a 19% discount it doesn't matter anymore.That's simple accounting.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 12:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 13, 2016, 11:25:41 amNo, I wouldn't. I'd have made sure I have a committed buyer for that vehicle before accepting the win (i.e. one of the luxury car dealerships who might be willing to buy it), or if I can't afford the taxes then simply decline. I certainly wouldn't blame the sweepstake organizer for giving me the chance to basically make a $800k profit. In fact, I would probably ask myself why I even participated in the contest when I couldn't even afford to win.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 12:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 12, 2016, 09:13:02 pmSorry, but that would be a very bad idea. By registering an one-man business he could evade the import VAT but the profit of selling the freebie is taxed. He would also have a lot of fun with accounting and the tax office. As a private person he would have to pay the import VAT but no taxes on the profit. When selling the scope to a comapny his investment would be 19% import VAT, the loss of another 19% for being on par with the net price and some discount to make it an attractive bargain for the buyer. Still a good deal for him and the buyer.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 12:42:14 pm
content: That's a bit of a bad news. When entering the contest there is a field for entering your preferred distributor. I generally thought that if I enter TME, who are based in Poland, Keysight will just arrange with TME for them to ship the prize to me and then they will get this sorted out between themselves.Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:05:22 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on March 13, 2016, 12:42:14 pmSome employee of Keysight mentioned that they usually arrange to ship prizes via a local distrbutor. But in this case everything seems to be shipped from Malaysia. So you have to pay any import taxes and VAT (23% in your case). If you win and know someone in Germany you might be able save 4%

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:12:47 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 13, 2016, 01:05:22 pmIf you want to go that route, Switzerland may be a better option, they only have 8% VAT.OP, maybe go on vacation in Switzerland and have it sent there?

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:16:27 pm
content: I was one of last year's benchvue sweepstakes winners. I won a 34461a dmm. Never had to pay anything. No idea where it shipped from though. And maybe the law in The Netherlands regarding prize values and taxes is different. I mean we are excluded from scope month as it is.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 13, 2016, 01:12:47 pmUnfortunately Switzerland isn't part of the EU, i.e. you have to pay VAT when importing into the EU. Luxemburg has the lowest VAT in the EU (15%).

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 13, 2016, 01:18:55 pmOnly if they search your car at the border

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:54:06 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 13, 2016, 01:39:17 pmIn this case: If they find it in your car at the border, you have to paymuchmore then only the VAT...

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 02:00:04 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 13, 2016, 01:54:06 pmOf course, I was only kidding.You put the scope in your backpack and sneak across the border near Schaffhausen.-_-

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 02:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 13, 2016, 02:00:04 pmAh, finally someone comes up with a constructive solution!I am sure Sebastian will promptly inform Keysight that it istheirmoral obligation to carry the scope across the border that way, and deliver it to his dumpster.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 05:25:54 pm
content: When you go to Switserland to collect it you take a cheap scope with you, and simply transfer the serial number sticker to the new one, and put the other in the dumpster. Customs sees you come in with "machine, serial number xxxxxx" and when you leave ( at another border post of course) you leave with the same "machine, serial number xxxxxx".

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 07:57:50 pm
content: Thankfully I don't need to make this kind of decision, as I'm in Quebec, Canada, where the rules for running a contest are completely absurd and no company with any smarts would deal with the hoops that have to be jumped to allow entrants from here. So good luck to all those that have a chance!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 08:26:47 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 13, 2016, 05:25:54 pmYeah, sure. Or you could rent an armored car, put on fake license plates, and just smash through the border control post on the way back home with your scope...Come on, Sebastian's approach to this topic has been absurd enough. No need to try and top that.

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 09:01:18 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 13, 2016, 08:26:47 pmI dunno, at this point, asking "What's the craziest (most illegal) way of getting a scope into Germany?" might be the only way to save this trainwreck of a story.I propose "Have Keysight throw it into a dumpster which has been secretly arranged to be flown over Germany, where it is then released with a parachute." Of course, the dumpster is conveniently full of bubble wrap, Styrofoam and assorted packaging materials.You could also use a catapult. Bonus points for using an electromagnetic one.

author: Addicted2AnalogTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 09:05:44 pm
content: Sebastian -If you don't want to pay just under 4000Euro in taxes for the scope, but you want to receive it and sell i, why don't you contact a tax official in Germany and ask them about such an arrangement?? Governments always want tax money, so I'd imagine that they would allow you to either make payments on it, add it to your year-end taxes, or give you a certain amount of time to pay the taxes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 09:39:22 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 13, 2016, 09:15:58 pmI'm 100% sure it was an empty housing and maybe even a prototype (dummy) of the housing. No scopes where killed or hurt for that piece of film!

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 01:31:33 am
content: I would agree.Sent from my horrible mobile....

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 05:01:28 am
content: Quote from: SebastianW on March 13, 2016, 09:15:58 pmIf they sent it through a dealer, the dealer would have to pay VAT - why would they do that since they get nothing at all. Someone has to pay VAT at some point in the transaction. Since you are the recipient of a very valuable piece of equipment, YOU pay that part. Keysight's cost is COGS + a portion of the staff cost to run the contest. (COGS - cost of goods sold). They give away the sales value for only the COGS value. They are NOT giving away $500k in cash.They are handling it totally proper and above board. Keysight offered a contest to give away scopes, not scopes and cash for taxes. If they gave away scopes AND paid the taxes, they would have to pay even more than the tax of the scope to cover the tax on the extra cash! FUCKING REDICULOUS!I am biting my tongue right now. The words I am inclined to use are best left out of this - for now.Sent from mobile device.... Keeping it short and mis-spelled

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 08:43:17 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 14, 2016, 05:01:28 amKeysight runs a promotional ad-campaign and has set up a certain budget for that. Lets say 500 Grand. What they actually did is: Take the entire 500 Grand an spend all the money on the most expensive scopes they can collect for it and let the "lucky" winner suffer all the taxes he may have to pay to get the "prize". Not able to pay a few thousand Bucks to get your "prize"? Well, not our problem... Instead, they could have spend, lets say just 70% of their ad budget on the scopes and save 30% to cover the taxes for the winners. This way, both sides would be happy. Maybe it's really a cultural thing but to have to pay something (in this case a few thousend bucks, this is huge, if not impossible for a student or hobbyist) to receive a prize is an alien concept to German citicens. And certainly doesn't justify all the hate thrown at Sebastian. Because, in my opinion, it is Keysight who handels this very unprofessional.Just my 2c....

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 08:48:10 am
content: The rules of the contest were there before he entered, it was his choice and still is. Keysight has done nothing wrong. So your two cents was certainly wasted.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 08:52:48 am
content: They don't need to use dealers, they have their own offices. They just need to ship to one of their own offices within the EC area, the local office pays the VAT at the base cost of the scope. The Keysight office is then able to offset it against their own VAT returns. Lets face it on an expensive scope the base price ( BOM, R&D, labour and shipping) is a fraction of the retail price.VAT unlike other sales taxes is a Value Added Tax, as each seller in the chain adds value, tax is charged on it, which is then offset (or refunded) against the VAT they pay.The problem for a private individual is they cannot offset the VAT and on an item comming into tbe country, if the customs documents state the full recommended retail value, this is that will be used to calculate the VAT charged to them.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 09:21:45 am
content: Quote from: Augustus on March 14, 2016, 08:43:17 amAnd what is your opinion of an individual who accused a well meaning and very generous donor of ethnic discrimination, being Nigerian scammers, and ruining his life?The hate is coming from Sebastian himself, and the responses wholly predictable as a result.You really couldn't make this up!

author: hs3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 10:43:11 am
content: There seems to be some confusion about how importing Keysight stuff coming from Malaysia for example works.Based on my limited experience if you get something from Keysight from Malaysia to Europe it first comes as part of larger cargo shipment to Amsterdam for example and from there the package might get routed to you. Or it might first go to your local distributor who then sends it to you. In any case you are not personally the one handling the importing or paying for the import fees and duty for example. So from the buyer side it is the same as if you were getting it from your local distributor even if it might originate from Malaysia.Of course that was just based on my limited experience and may not apply here.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:22:55 am
content: Let's clarify a few things....As I see it, we have questions on financial liabilities of three broad types:Income tax/Gambling tax.The fact that any US winners are going to have to face income tax on any prize is no great surprise to anyone. I can recall hearing of financial horror stories that hearken back to the early days of TV quiz shows where someone wins a car - and then goes through income tax hell. Does this happen in other countries?It seems the Netherlands has a gambling tax - that is just as inevitable as income tax is in the US.Sales Tax/V.A.T./etc.These are the local/state/federal taxes on goods and services on any item - whether imported or not. I believe there are a lot of 'flavours' of this type of tax and sometimes there may be multiple ones applied to a single purchase, but I group them here for the sake of simplicity. I think most, if not all, of the world has to deal with these - but do they apply for winning a prize?Customs DutyThe 'border crossing' tax on imports. As I understand it, these tariffs are (theoretically) intended to help support local industry by making competitive imports less financially appealing. While there may be international standardisation on tariff codes, the actual rates charged are not - and are up to each jurisdiction to set. The liability falls on the importer - butwhowill be the importer?While there are clearly some who have had some experience with these, there seems to be a lot of hypothesising going on here - and before we get too carried away (or has that boat sailed?) I would like to ask -Has any winner actually contacted Keysight to be appraised of the delivery process and then taken that information to someone in their country who can - with some authority - advise them of the ACTUAL financial liability?I feel there's more "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" here thanactualfigures being discussed.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 11:54:43 am
content: In the Netherlands we have wat is called "kansspelbelasting", betting/gambling tax, 29% of the money or economical value of the prize, and can be paid either by the one giving the prize or the receiver. This is on top of eventual VAT and customs duty, but luckily we have no income tax on prizes

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 12:05:55 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on March 14, 2016, 11:54:43 amI have added this to the first category above, as it would seem to be just as inevitable as income tax in the US.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 02:18:59 pm
content: I just cannot fathom the arrogance of someone entering a competition to win a $20,000 prize, with the full knowledge in the T&Cs that they would have to pay import duty/taxes etc, and then has the audacity to have a whinge about it? Give the scope to someone more deserving.

author: cidcorp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 03:06:15 pm
content: This whole thread makes me sad. The whole world deals with VAT / Taxes / Duties, it's a fact of life. It is sad that winning such a nice piece of equipmentpotentially ends with the winner selling it to cover any financial obligations due to the win, but that is the way it is. Personally no matter how you look at it you still won something.Sell it at 75% it MSRP, new in box on eBay - pay the taxes/etc then use the difference to go out an buy a nice gently used model.Two things you can be absolutely sure of... eventual death... and taxes (this from a Canadian )Oh and the BBQ roasting thing bothered me as well, I do 'suspect' that the unit was a faulty one... or at least that's what I'm telling myself. But remember it's theirscope and they and do whatever they want with it (well except send it to you tax free lol)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 03:25:46 pm
content: This thread confirms to me once more that operating a global company is terribly complex.Keysight on its part could restrict this raffle to countries in which it has authorized dealers and provide the prizes locally import and sales taxes paid.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 03:54:22 pm
content: Honestly, i did not get the message the barbeque clip tried to convey.On the other hand, my observation is Keysight is trying to reach small people much more agressively (in a good way) then Agilent. I started seing Reps trying to contact me, keep in touch, sending information on free seminars, they sent me a free book on spectrum analysis, i did not see that with Agilent. Perhaps there was a change at Keysight in that regard?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 04:00:46 pm
content: Keysight could not hope to be profitable on hobbyists. That's not to say they don't want hobby money, but its a fart in a dust storm in the big scheme of things. The purpose of a promotion is to gain customers and encourage existing customers. If I were a Keysight employee in charge of this contest, I would not be all that concerned with someone not being able to cover the tax obligation since they are not even a potential customer for these prizes. As cold as it sounds, my small business has to be careful not to attract a customer that cannot afford my products. Those 'near customers' are very expensive. Keysight is spending major money and expects new, long term customers as a result.Sent from my horrible mobile....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 04:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 14, 2016, 04:00:46 pmDon't rule out the small companies and one-man-bands who certainly have the money for a MSO2000 or MSO3000 series (not that those are good value for money).

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 05:35:27 pm
content: Not at all, I am a small one-man-band. I may finance a $20k+ scope if I don't win the contest. I suspect that purchase, which is huge for me, is not even a footnote of a daily sales report.Sent from my horrible mobile....

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 06:31:12 pm
content: Despite the hobbyist market is a blip in their sales figures, their shotgun strategy is surely needed to gain mind share. Also, hobbyists and small companies can certainly influence their employers/contractors.With the spinoff and the new name, people involved with electronics but not actively following the T&M market have a greater chance to hear about a company called "Keysight" that sells oscilloscopes and is giving away valuable test gear - only to realize they were the old Agilent. It takes time and money to etch the new name into the minds of potential customers...I think that a desirable side effect for them is if they can pull someone away from the competition (especially in the educational market), which could represent a few years worth of brand loyalty.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 07:12:16 pm
content: I would agree with that.Having a stable and solid position in education is important. When the young graduate and start buying or recommending for a commercial use - Keysight wants to be high on that list. I would expect a company like Keysight to be hoping for customers that last decades, you are right that mind-share is an important part of that.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 08:21:19 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 14, 2016, 05:35:27 pmTrue but 100 of those sales start to add up. If Keysight looses one big client they may look at a similar loss of revenue. When having 100 clients with much less business it doesn't hurt so much to loose one customer.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 10:43:06 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on March 14, 2016, 06:31:12 pm+1Interest in products comes from individuals, as does the purchase approval. IMHO, any promotional campaign will be more effective if it is targeted to the individual cogs rather than the corporate machine.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2016, 10:48:38 pm
content: .... and there's probably a good reason why they won't - but could not Keysight ship the winning product to their office within the jurisdiction of the winner - and they could then have a local presentation? This not only gives separation of the financial details from the local distributor, but allows for the promotion of a tangible presence of the manufacturer - put some 'local' faces out there ... and maybe get a spot in some local press.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 05:28:05 am
content: BTW:Has someone recognized:The thread opener had deleted his postings (arond 20:00 PM CET, Monday evening).Only 3 post are left...

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 05:38:26 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 15, 2016, 05:28:05 amThat is a shitty move. All these people are spending time to have a conversation, and the OP announces that all the effort was a total waste.I should have known better from the beginning - it started off as something I should not have bothered with. Lesson learned. Moving on.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 07:17:12 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 15, 2016, 05:38:26 amIndeed, I can imagine the OP is now rubbing his hands with glee on his windfall. A shame the alleged serial patent holder could not engage in a simple dose of patience rather than go off on some bizarre tirade.Coincidental I'm sure, but isn't there another serial patent holder familiar to the forum who despite their various claims of experience also has difficulty in organising a piss up in a brewery?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 10:15:40 am
content: I really hope it's because he finally declined the prize. I'd hate to think that that ungrateful douchebag's whining paid off and somehow Keysight found a way to make things alright in his deluded little self-entitled world.Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 01:23:17 pm
content: So what happened? Did they respond and got it sorted for him? Has he declined the prize? Why all the editing?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 01:33:57 pm
content: Perhaps after spending the weekend running around calling out 'The sky is falling! The sky is falling!", Keysight came up with a simple solution and they've deleted what might be embarrassing posts.I don't know - but it seems they were somewhat of a worrywart.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 01:34:32 pm
content: moderators, please put this thread to bed and monitor the OP. I don't think his behavior on this thread should be tolerated.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 01:50:24 pm
content: Quote from: continuo on March 15, 2016, 01:23:17 pmWhy would he delete the posts if he declined the prize? Most likely, Hewlett-Agisight went, "OK dude, we'll arrange to ship you the scope from our local office, but first you have to delete those comments, they're bad publicity for us."Also, what's with all the hate? For all we know, he might be a poor 16 year old kid living with his single mom. It's like everyone's assuming he's some cranky old rich guy living in a castle or something.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 02:01:11 pm
content: Quote from: SebastianWAlthough this is obviously made up I do not apreciate genuine looking fake quotes - "it's just not cricket!" You can now take 7 days to just observe the forum and learn boundaries.SimonModerator

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 02:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 15, 2016, 01:50:24 pmHoist by his own petard. Unfounded accusations of ethnic discrimination, scamming and claims his life had been ruined among them.QuoteHe claimed otherwise. As well as publicly claiming his name on two patents, unlikely for a 16 year old, he claimed in an unsolicited PM to meQuoteBut yes, I agree, he's almost certainly a kid in out of his depth, and teller of tall stories, which probably would explain a fair bit including the deletions and bizarre behaviour.Anyway we'll know if it's been returned as there'll be an additional scope up for grabs.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 02:38:00 pm
content: Once he started to complain of discrimination I was sure it was a wind up. Anyway, I hope thr real Sebastian W. enjoys his 4000X.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 04:23:57 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 15, 2016, 01:50:24 pmNope, wasn't us.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 06:09:46 pm
content: Interesting. Why would he start the whole thing but then delete his posts?Seeing as there is no proof of the OP's identity, this whole thing might actually be a clever scam. "Hey, I just won this $17,000 scope. I'll sell it to you for $1000, but you have to send me $3000 in cash first so I can pay the import tax." Of course he plays the clueless victim so people will actually approachhimfirst. Kinda like a reverse Nigerian scam.It certainly sounded like some people here actually offered him money ...

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 06:14:32 pm
content: The thought had indeed crossed my mind.My only reponse to him via PM was "Frankly I don't believe a word you say". He then tried to get me to make an offer, needless to say I didn't respond.A strange way to go about scamming though.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 06:22:06 pm
content: I ignored his PM's as well. It is so unlikely that a 'deal' would have been a success.I would rather finance and pay for a 4000x over 3 years than make a deal like that.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 06:42:23 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 15, 2016, 06:14:32 pmOh, there have been stranger ones:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_hoax_of_1872

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 11:19:06 pm
content: I saw it coming, because all was turning very weird with this guy.I'm sure, more than one in the giveaway, doesn't even know what the hell is an oscilloscope.They just know that it's an expensive thing, no need to know more.Anyway, the side effects of this type of giveaways.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 12:56:07 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on March 15, 2016, 06:09:46 pmI hadn't really thought of that happening here - but I did get approached.I just told him that the only way for this to work is if Keysight were to deliver it to me, then I sell it and buy him his Rigol - but I also told him that part of Keysight's T&Cs excluded such a redirection. There's no way I would ever fork out up front.But the more I think about it, the more the melodrama fits with something underhanded.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 02:13:53 am
content: The whole thing hinges on what Keysight "sell" (or declare) the scope for anyway, surely? I mean if they sell it for 0 EUR then they make a business loss and there is no "Value Added" to tax? At most they can declare it at COGS (minus the 'S' because Cost Of Goods NOT SOLD are surely not subject to VAT).It seems that KS can just stick any random value on the customs form, at no cost to them, and also no payment trail. Because you can always dispute a HMRC (or German Tax Gestapo) from their "valuation" of goods by proving you paid less for the goods imported. If KS "sell" a scope for $0, then surely that is a simple fact and no money has changed hands and tax authorities have no basis to "value add".Of course, if you then go and sell the scope (as a business) the VAT will apply...Hmm... I am minded now of the multi-billion carousel fraud that involved mobile phones that the EU bureaucrats seemed to invite in their ridiculous attempts at controlling markets...#BREXIT - I love Europeans, but I hate the EU.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 04:50:51 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on March 16, 2016, 02:13:53 amThe VAT problem is of largely of their own making and inexperience of running a competition like this. Solved simply by accounting and basically shipping to the winner from within the EC area. Which is what we thought they where doing in the first place, rather than from Malaysia.Now BREXIT is actually a more interest topic to discuss. I think many in the UK have forgotten being a member of the EC works two ways.Will they be allowed to work in the EC without visas, nope. Even owning a holiday home in the sun may become problematic. But let's not get side tacked... /-)

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 05:24:57 am
content: Then Keysight would have to pay the VAT on when it entered the EU, right?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 05:54:18 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on March 16, 2016, 02:13:53 amAh, right -- because VAT and import duties are an invention of the EU, were unheard of in the UK before joining the EU, and don't exist in any country outside of Europe?! Come on... Feel free to be against the EU, but citing a tax/import duty issue as a reason seems rather stupid. If anything, the EU has essentially eliminated VAT and customs hassles for goods traffic inside the EU.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 06:43:55 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 16, 2016, 05:54:18 amNot really: when doing business with another company within the EU I have to collect and check VAT numbers every time I sell something to another company inside the EU (but not in the UK) and supply products zero rated. For all UK sales and personal sales in the EU, I collect the tax on behalf of Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs. This added complexity and bureacracy frankly makes it a PITA to administer. A fundamental part of being in the EU was to make intra-state transactions easier, but actually the reverse is true.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 06:46:37 am
content: I think we are talking about two different things here. VAT and import duty. There is no import duty within the EU. As much as I think we might be best out I wonder what it would do for my business selling Dave's uCurrents

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 07:04:11 am
content: Quote from: Simon on March 16, 2016, 06:46:37 amThere's an awful lot of FUD about that seems to be the cornerstone of the stay-in campaign: it would work in their favour if they could highlight what the concrete benefits are rather than hypothetical guesswork. Very much like the Chicken Little we've seen in this thread in fact!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 07:07:56 am
content: We people as usual have been duped. I don't care what the plans are if we stay, I want to know what our government will do if we leave. What will they do with the savings, what will they do about the things the EU has so far decided/influenced. There are plenty of good rules from the EU (apparently) what will happen to those if we leave ?as always it's politics: a cockfight, the actual facts are irelevant.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 08:23:10 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 16, 2016, 05:24:57 amThey may or may not have to pay VAT on the imported scope. They are moving the scope within the company and large international companies know evey trick in the book (and more) on how to avoid taxes. If they do have to pay VAT it is on the actual cost price of the scope to them. They can then deduct the VAT they paid against the VAT they collect on other sales.There is no duty on electronics.Once the scope is within the EC they are free to give it away. They are not adding value to the scope, so there is no more VAT to pay. They can then probably claim the cost of the scope against their corporation tax.If anything they may actually come off better going this route.

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 10:42:23 am
content: Quote from: Towger on March 16, 2016, 08:23:10 amBut there is a 4.2% tariff on Oscilloscopes.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 10:51:56 am
content: Quote from: ericloewe on March 16, 2016, 10:42:23 amIt looks as if you are correct. :-(Edit: Looking at the rules, if a company already owns the equipment and imports it for their own use there is no duty on it. But it they sell, hire or give it away 'free of charge', within one year of the date of importation duty has to be paid.http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1775.html

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 11:45:09 am
content: Quote from: Towger on March 16, 2016, 10:51:56 amSorry, but he is not. Only if it would be a CRT-scope.A simple check of the taxation and customs information:English:http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&Taric=90302091&SimDate=20160316German:http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=de&Taric=90302091&SimDate=20160316Just klick on the last link "9030 20 91 90 Other".

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 11:52:34 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 16, 2016, 11:45:09 am

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 12:30:23 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 16, 2016, 11:45:09 amThat's oddly specific. What's funny is that another official page just mentioned oscilloscopes in general.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 12:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: ericloewe on March 16, 2016, 12:30:23 pmVery interesting! Link?And... Which other page is official, rather than the database of the EU?

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 06:35:22 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 16, 2016, 12:36:37 pmI didn't keep the link, but I believe it may have been the UK's tax authority's mirror of the above database.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 07:12:42 pm
content: You can almost always find a tariff that is lower rated for most electronic equipment, so that it is either zero rated ( then only VAT and Ad Valorum apply) or will have some rate applied. Generally if you are not a total asshat to the customs official at the customs counter ( not the delivery people but the actual customs office so this means you have elected to collect it yourself) they might apply the lower tariff. If it is a courier guy, with a whole batch of paperwork, moaning about the time then they simply apply the first tariff, which typically is the higher one, the reductions are in subcategories.For this prize I definitely will go see the guys in customs, they tend to be nice enough once you know them a little and are polite and friendly. May be a big bill though, SARS loves their slice of bacon.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 09:15:28 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 16, 2016, 07:12:42 pmMmmh, not true at all at least here in Italy.Everything comes here from abroad (outside CE) through a courier is promptly charged with VAT (italian version is named IVA : 23%), import taxes and courier's custom office practice's expense, normally they do not even let you look at custom practice details before you pay the bill.For instance when 9 years ago i bought a Rigol DS1022CD from an HK ebay seller, DHL charged me 175 Euro for a 480 Euro invoice (including shipping) at road level.I had two option :1) pay the bill and get the shipping and open custom invoice envelope.2) refuse the shipping and probably lose a lot of money ;-)Notice that the official italian importer price was over 1000 Euro, now we too have italian and EU seller with nice price for this stuff, apart Fluke, Keysight and Tek ... not a great problem anyway.Useless to say that nowaday i buy abroad only if i'm absolutely desperate, unless it's not a small packet sent by signed for postal service.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 11:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: markone on March 16, 2016, 09:15:28 pmAt least in Canada, this is probably more the courier companies trying to get their pound of flesh than the government. If you call the courier before they have brokered the package for you, you can insist that they allow you to self-broker. This means you need to go to the courier depot, collect a ream of paperwork, carry it to the customs office, get the item cleared, and then return to the depot to collect the package. For an item like this though it would save you a pretty penny. Those brokerage fees are (almost literally...) highway robbery. Next time you need to do something like this in your country you should check if such is possible there. My understanding is that, at least here, they are legally required to allow you to self-broker or use the brokerage of your choice, but of course they will do it themselves if you don't request otherwise.

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2016, 02:21:22 am
content: Quote from: ve7xen on March 16, 2016, 11:00:23 pmExactly, an highway robbery ...About custom self-brokering stuff i never heard nothing about that here, for sure they do not offer it to you and it's not applicable with express shippings, where packages leave US territoryonlyafter the completion of custom's clearance (custom's invoice compiled), usually made few hours after courier's pick-up.And if you consider current Euro/USD exchange rate, buying abroad is utterly pointless.

author: mjkuwp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2016, 11:20:18 am
content: in the USA:I won a car this year in a raffle. First order of business was:- do you accept the prize or not? YES!Second business, done the same day was:- paid 25% of the cash value of the prize to the group that ran the contest - who passed it directly to the IRS (USA tax collecting group)Also paid sales tax on the purchase when I took delivery.don't want to diver the existing discussion, but want to say I never considered bashing these groups for following rules that were laid out for their contest and by the government.I haven't filed my income taxes yet so I am not 100% sure how this all washes out on the tax forms.{In answer to subsequent questions, gasoline right now is about $2.00 USD / Gallon}

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2016, 12:01:01 pm
content: @ mjkuwpAnswer me one question, please:How much are you paying for a gallon gasoline?(With the answer I´m able to make a exact example, how the [in this case] german supreme command get our money.)

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2016, 02:45:46 pm
content: @mjkuwp: That's a bad example. You live in the US, you know your laws, you knew the value of the car and therefore you had a pretty good idea on how much the win would set you back. This campaign (at least to us Europeans) is more like:KS: Congrats dude, you just won a FREE!!! oscilloscope!Eurodude: Wow! That's amazing! Cool! WOW WOW WOW!!! Please send it to xxxxxxxx.KS: One moment dude, here's the contract, sign it on the dotted line.Eurodude: Contract? What's all this wording about? What's this taxes thing on it, never heard of it before?KS: Uhummm, well, you first have to pay something to receive the prize, but really, this isn't something to worry about, trust me, we just have to make sure, really, just a little insignificant profane formality.Eurodude: Pay something to receive a prize? Are you really KS, one moment, I first have to check, you know, there are warnings all over our media, each day, please understand, one moment, I have to check this first.KS: Don't worry. It's just this tax thing and look how shiny your new scope is, it's the Rolling Royce of scopes and will surely impress the gurlz. Just look at all the buttons and knobs, they are all lit! A dream!Eurodude: Well, uhummm, yeeeeees. I want it now, I want it badly, please please please tell me how much I would have to pay to get it as quick as possible. You know, this is really important to me. HOW MUCH?KS:

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2016, 03:53:10 pm
content: its not their responsibility.Sent from my horrible mobile....

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 02:52:55 am
content: Maybe it's not their responsibility - but they could at least supply the basic information that only they can provide in order for the potential recipient to be able to approach their country's customs and tax people to work out what their liability would be.

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 03:35:26 am
content: Just had a thought -- Since Keysight is allowing winners to accept less expensive scopes, ask for two scopes of half the value. Sell one to pay the taxes, keep the other one.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 04:15:04 am
content: Hi Folks,There's a lot of tax talk going on; we really are trying our best to help out our winners. Things like subbing out a lower cost scope are not what we planned on doing, but we really do want to take care of you. If you win (and we hope you do!) we're going to try our darndest to make it work out. Thanks for your patience!-Daniel

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 04:59:00 am
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 19, 2016, 04:15:04 amDaniel - I have the taxes all worked out. All I need to do is WIN. I will jump up and down for a week! There will be no discussion of taxes or swapping for a multimeter. Still hoping for the 6000!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 11:00:02 am
content: I somehow get the feeling that ifrx8pilotwins a scope, we''l hear theYEEEEEHAAAAAA!!all the way over here in Australiawithoutneed of a phone.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 01:42:39 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 18, 2016, 03:53:10 pmOh, really? But maybe it is in their own interest to save some face? I don't think the EU, with more than 500 Million first-world citizens, are one of their lesser markets..."Keysight Technologies is committed to conducting its business in an ethical, environmentally sustainable and socially responsible manner."(quote from their company's website)Sounds like a quite helpful and responsible company to meSo, yeah, maybe the marketing folks in Santa Rosa, California really don't know. I give them the benefit of the doubt. But it only takes them a simple phone call or an email to one of their official EU sales offices to find out. Because the Keysight staff in their EU offices DO know darn well. They are paid to know such things. It is their daily business to juggle with prices and taxes and customs tariffs. So yeah, Keysight marketing guys, just give 'em a call and tell your lucky winners how much they have to spend on their "free" gifts. It's not that hard at all

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 01:46:16 pm
content: If there are other companies out there looking to give out free stuff and they see this thread, do you think Germany will be on the list of countries open to it?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 01:51:46 pm
content: I doubt it, but they will not be the only countries excluded. Brazil comes to mind here, along with my home country of South Africa.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 01:53:04 pm
content: As open as the UK, because we're still both part of the EU and the rules concerning this free giveaway are basically the same to both of us.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 03:15:42 pm
content: I just read something totally funny.9. Winner Notification. Any potential winner will be notified by mail, email and/or telephone. If a potential winner cannot be contacted, does not respond within fourteen days from the date that Keysight first tries to notify him/her, and/or the prize or prize notification is returned as undeliverable, such potential winner forfeits all rights to win the promotion or receive the prize, and an alternate potential winner will be selected. Upon contacting a potential winner and determining that he/she has met all eligibility requirements of the promotion, including without limitation, where permitted by law, the execution of required waivers, publicity and liability releases and disclaimers, such individual will be declared a "winner" of the promotion. In accordance with local laws,if the selected entrant is a Canadian or South African resident, that entrant will be required to answer a mathematical skill-testing question, without assistance of any kind (whether mechanical or otherwise), within the time frame provided above. Keysight assumes no responsibility for lost, late, or misdirected communications or any computer, online, telephone, or technical malfunctions that may occur. No substitution, transfer, or assignment of the prize is permitted, except that Keysight reserves the right to substitute a prize of equivalent value in the event the offered prize is unavailable

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 03:21:56 pm
content: A random prize draw based solely on a game of chance would be illegal in those jurisdictions. A draw which also requires skill, however, is not.

author: mstoer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 03:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: diyaudio on March 19, 2016, 03:15:42 pmIn Canada the law requires that all contests include a skill testing question. This has something to do with gaming laws:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skill_testing_questionOften the company holding the contest will even give you the answer or hint you to it if it isn't already obvious enough. The questions are often something like what is 30/5 + 4 ... yes, that simple.Edited to add: I'm fine with the taxes, just need the scope. Thanks in advance

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 04:11:22 pm
content: These rules are sometimes weird. In Germany, for example, lottery wins are only tax free, if the winner is chosen by a solely random process, like drawing a random name from a pile of names or the classic form of a lottery, where random numbers were picked out of a barrel. If you had to solve a puzzle to win the prize it may very well be taxed as an income, because you had to do some "creative work" to get it and the prize is considered to be the payment for this work. The borders between these two cases aren't very well defined and there have been several reported (lengthy) court battles between a winner and the tax office over taxation or not. Wins in TV quiz shows like "Who wants to be a millionaire", still very popular over here, generally will always be taxed but the host covers this for the winner.

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2016, 06:32:54 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 19, 2016, 03:21:56 pmAnd it is my understanding that there is no standard for a certain level of skill, so they can simply ask something like "What is 2 plus 2?" And, the law might not even require that you answer correctly to "win" the prize.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 08:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 15, 2016, 02:01:11 pmSorry. Point taken. I'm glad you realised I wasn't trying to mislead anyone, but I suppose I overdid things a bit.It's difficult when you have to wait a week before you can even apologise!

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 08:34:47 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 22, 2016, 08:19:55 pmDon't worry. To be honest I think the Seb W account has to be a total troll. The real Seb W must be too busy enjoying his scope right now, or reading the manuals in anticipation of receiving it...The troll Seb W appears to have disappeared now anyway.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 10:06:38 pm
content: there are still 2 peoples that refused the scope they won.

author: papousek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 07:12:12 am
content: unreasonable to pay tax.i won a SDG1025 from Siglemt review campaign, they covered all shipping cost and tax thing, seems copy cat won!

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 07:25:33 am
content: Do you think that Siglent will pay for taxes on $16k? Would Siglent give away $500k+ in a single month?Keep in mind, Keysight is not getting the taxes. The various government agencies around the world are. Maybe if they would pay taxes - the would be 'Scope Week' not 'Scope Month'.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 07:30:41 am
content: Rx8pilot, the Chinese and Western way of declaring a value on parcels are different ;-)

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 07:35:32 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 23, 2016, 07:25:33 amI am sorry for you, but you have to face it:You, in the land of the free, have to pay tax.We, in some other countries, have not.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 09:24:52 am
content: Quote from: mstoer on March 19, 2016, 03:36:02 pmthey could make the question "Work out how much tax you have to pay" that way killing two birds with one stone.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 09:53:09 am
content: Anyone happen to have a copy of the Terms and Conditions one have to sign off on when accepting the prize? (not the one to join the contest)

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 10:00:09 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on March 23, 2016, 07:35:32 amWhich is interesting because the other posts about the way imports are taxed in Germany, by the government that you and your fellow countrymen and women elected, suggest differently.As I have said before, you are being naive if you think that an internationally run prize draw such as this was not going to have some tax implications, and the more you keep complaining about it, the less likely organisers are going to want to do another one.If you don't like the terms and conditions, don't enter. You will not be worse off than you were, so there's no need to complain.In other news, well-known armageddon pundit Henny Penny reports that the sky is falling in.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 10:06:40 am
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on March 23, 2016, 09:53:09 amAttached

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 10:47:34 am
content: Strange how Venezuela is on that list. Don't the US have sanctions on them?

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 12:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on March 23, 2016, 10:47:34 amIt would appear only to government officials. One of the Irish banks outsourced both it's domestic and international payment systems to an American bank a couple of years ago. The fun that caused, international payments to embargo countries got blocked, which was not surprising. But domestic payments to people and companies which names on various American watch lists also got blocked. In addition people who made transfers between their own accounts which contained text like such as 'Cuba Holiday' had their transfers bounced.

author: Involute
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 06:09:56 pm
content: That's some serious math you Canadians and South Africans need to know (from the contest Ts & Cs). Better start hitting the books. Funny that you're not deemed worthy of owning a scope if you can't pass the test. ;-)

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 06:31:16 pm
content: Quote from: Involute on March 25, 2016, 06:09:56 pmYou obviously have not met the SA education system, where adherence to a dogma is deemed as much more important than such mundane things like say having pupils who are functionally illiterate yet who have a pass mark that qualifies them for university entrance. This test is merely a basic form of Turing test, to see if you are actually capable of either using a computer to research data and winnow the facts from the fiction, and of performing basic mathematics without needing a crutch like Google. I try as much as possible to do basic mathematics in my head, as it is good to keep those skills active. Helps to tell that the answer you got from "Da Komputah" is wrong, and you need to recheck the data in and the output.

author: wizpip
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 07:05:33 pm
content: It might just be because I'm British, but this whole thread is a bit of a cringefest.In terms of automating entries that someone mentioned, I'm a web developer and it'd be pretty easy to write a script to create millions of entries from various IPs, domain names, etc etc, but where's the fun in that? It's like god mode in any game you've ever played. You can play without it for hours and hours, but as soon as you can do anything it becomes boring.I enter once daily, manually. And I wouldn't dream of complaining if I were to win!

author: nihtila
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 09:51:02 am
content: What is wrong with these Germans, they are even more negative than us Finns!Ok, I am kind of tired of this tax discussion in another thread, as everyone seems to "know" how things go - yet there are 10 different answers. But I just want to bring another winner's experience on this, also for Keysight's sake.So I won a 3104T and my experience goes something like this:1. Yes, I did read the T&C and thought I will sort it out if IF I win. After all, it usually doesn't happen. Anyway, participating does not cost you anything yet, you can always decline the prize if it comes to that.2. I happened to win this time, then I started checking the forms in more detail. I asked Keysight about the W8BEN forms cause I was a bit unsure regarding some items there. The answer was that they are going to use local distributors (when possible) and I do not need to return that form. I am only responsible for local taxes. I was aware of that but was thinking that I probably do not need to pay anything, and it seemed to be the case.3. After few days KS called me that something unexpected came up (that they did not face in the previous giveaway) and there may be taxes. I was slightly unhappy but of course understood it. And still they told me that they are trying to sort it out. They also told me there is a possibility to choose a cheaper scope from the 3000T series if taxes become reality. I was happy with that as I thought I can pay £500-1000 as it is only for hobby use. That would get me an excellent scope - if not 1GHz.4. Few days passed and I got an email that there will not be any taxes. I have now been contacted by the distributor as well. I do not know yet when I will get my prize.Keysight has been very helpful sorting out the situation, and they always let me know what was the current situation. They really try their best to avoid the costs to winners, but of course everything must go by the books. And laws and regulations are different between countries so this may be "unfair" to someone. But then again, we have that condition in the form claiming the winner to be responsible for the taxes. I do feel KS has done more than they needed.I hope the situation stays like this in my case. If there won't be any taxes, I most probably will keep the scope (although there is a temptation to swap it to a cheaper 3000 series scope and some money..). If there still will be some surprise taxes, I will sell the scope or try to swap to a cheaper model. I am feeling lucky and I see this as an opportunity to start building a serious hobbyist home lab. 1G should be enough for an audio guyedit: I still do kinda understand the whining about the taxes, it is also something I am not used to. Like someone said, it is more like a discounted product than a prize. But you buy a product when you need it, prize is unexpected. Even though 15k scope for 4k is a bargain, it is still waaayyy beyond most of our budgets. And we would never buy that expensive scope in the first place. But in this case the great thing is that KS offers possibility to swap the prize to a cheaper one; that should give possibility for all winners to choose a scope fitting their budget.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 10:58:20 am
content: Quote from: nihtila on March 28, 2016, 09:51:02 amI am German in Germany and I don't get this "tax" talk either.About a year ago, I won a 34461A Keysight multimeter and a full BenchVue version.It was delivered to me by Fedex from the USA within a few days and I did not pay anything, not even shipping.Thank you again Keysight !Even if I had to pay the VAT, I would have accepted the prize.And for those who can or will not pay the taxes, just do not accept the prize.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 12:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: nihtila on March 28, 2016, 09:51:02 amThis is what I've been waiting for - a real example.Keysight HAVE to cover themselves on the issue of tax - but are obviously keen to minimise this impact on prizewinners wherever they can. As to how they address such things internally ... who cares?Let us know what the final outcome is ... and, if I may ask, can we have a photo of it on your bench, please?

author: nihtila
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 01:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on March 28, 2016, 12:33:37 pmSure. It will look good next to my £50 Chinese power supplies on an Ikea shelving unit

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 02:05:15 pm
content: It won't look good .... it will look magnificent!

author: firworks
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 03:22:48 pm
content: At least here in the US, I didn't think you paid the taxes immediately. I thought at the start of the following year you get a... 1099? Form and that states you had additional income in the year. You have to include that in your income figure for your taxes. If that's the case winners could start to set aside a little money each month from now till then to cover the extra tax burden. Or, they'd have plenty of time to sell the scope and that would cover the taxes and also probably let you buy a cheaper scope so you'd still be coming out ahead with a scope.This is a challenge any time something expensive is given away. It's cool of Keysight to do this but maybe they should have targeted a slightly lower end scope to give away 30 of?

author: nihtila
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 03:34:43 pm
content: Quote from: firworks on March 28, 2016, 03:22:48 pmI am not sure if prizes are counted as income in any other countries than the US, at least not in Europe. So the case is different. However, I still don't know if they can charge it afterwards. Basically as we are talking about VAT, the taxman would be after the distributor, not the winner. But then again, as the winner has signed release form, KS can ask the winner to pay this - but how long time after the winning? But I kind of (want to) believe that the case is closed when the prize is given.And once again, if you win, you can choose a cheaper model.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 04:10:25 pm
content: I'm still waiting for Sebastian to insist Keysight pay his eBay fees when he sells it...

author: mstoer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 05:54:59 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 23, 2016, 09:24:52 amThat would be easy, since in Canada there are no taxes on winnings

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 07:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: firworks on March 28, 2016, 03:22:48 pmThis is a big learning for us, we didn't realize it would be so tough! Also, we're offering to substitute a lower cost scope to winners if they want.

author: firworks
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 08:19:39 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 28, 2016, 07:57:40 pmVery understandable, giveaways especially when you include multiple states and countries can be incredibly complicated. I've been researching it to do some simple low $ tool giveaways and even that's not a small task. There are some companies out there who specialize in managing giveaways that you can work with who will know the laws and how to manage things. It might be a good idea if you do giveaways in the future to consider working with them. I've been contemplating giving Rafflecopter a try since I see them used a lot on internet giveaways.Still, thanks for doing it though! Scope month was an incredibly ambitious and generous thing to jump head first into. I'm still holding out hope for the last few drawings.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 03:16:49 am
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 28, 2016, 07:57:40 pmWinning in Australia isn't a problem at all! (Hint)... but I don't know what the problems are that the promoter needs to deal with.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 03:22:18 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on March 29, 2016, 03:16:49 amYeah would be interested to know.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 04:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 29, 2016, 03:22:18 amAustralia is pretty stringent about how you run and register the program in each territory/state (not country, blarg). That's about all I know other than it's a major hassle and it's possible other countries would be excluded just to include a specific territory. I pushed back on our team to get Australia included, but it wasn't possible for this year.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 06:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 29, 2016, 04:27:29 pmWhoa, someone's got thick skin!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 10:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 29, 2016, 04:27:29 pmThere's a light of hope in that statement......

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 11:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 29, 2016, 04:27:29 pmI read that Canadians could participate, except for the people living in the province of Quebec

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 05:49:24 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on March 29, 2016, 11:00:12 pmQuebec is just crazy...

author: AwArD_RzD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 30, 2016, 05:49:24 pmI live in Quebec and i can confirm... Crazy crazy. One of my friend who lived in the USA did a contest with is business 9-10 year ago, when he tried to comply with the Quebec law he said he needed another lawyer only to be sure to comply at 100% with the law and i think he said he needed to pay like 30% of the total prize only to register (even if there no winner there), don't know if that changed over the year but every time i see a contest Quebec is excluded..... the weird thing is, if there a contest in Quebec any province can participate... i can say our Loto-quebec lottery winner are always in the other province too ...Edit:http://contests.about.com/od/sweepstakes101/f/VoidinQuebec.htmthis explain the situation and it's 10% of the total prize so 50 000$ (maybe more since it's US dollar) only to register the contest....

author: Steve Wayne
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 10:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: rfeecs on March 10, 2016, 11:22:29 pmIf you're in the 30-40% tax bracket, you sure as hell should to be able to afford the tax on this windfall.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 09:42:27 am
content: Quote from: Steve Wayne on April 01, 2016, 10:28:53 pmAs a matter of idle interest, if this is going to abona fidebusiness, would it not be tax deductible in the US?

author: Flanbix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:29:00 pm
content: I received an email from Keysight telling me that I won a MSOX3104T (because it was turned down).I will try to post the development. I am a bit like nihtila, not willing to pay the full TAX on the scope but happy to pay for a lower end scope if possible.I contacted KS, will see what they say, ideally if there is no taxes and I can pick it up from Farnell it will be great.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:44:11 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on April 02, 2016, 09:42:27 amHmmm.... I'm no tax accountant - and I'm in Australia, but I'll take a punt and say .... No.Tax deductions are for expenses - that is money youpaidto buy stuff that enables you to generate taxable income. Nothing was paid for the scope.If, however, you wished to take the approach of 'Well, I had to pay tax to get this thing! Doesn't that count as an expense?' - then my answer is unchanged. Why? Because the scope (value) is counted as income and tax is payable on that. To then try and claim that tax as an expense would mean that EVERY business (and possibly every individual) could claim that income tax is a necessary expense in the business of generating income and therefore count it as a deduction.I can't see that flying with any country's tax department.

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:46:43 pm
content: Quote from: Flanbix on April 02, 2016, 02:29:00 pmGreat to winIf it ends up not receiving the 3104T because of the TAX and if the Keysight is flexible,I would like to receive it with paying the TAX.If that really happens please send PM to me

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 03:05:42 pm
content: Aaaaaaaand... We have another winner here on the forums...PeterEE - USshplatt - USnihtila - UKFanbix - UKela-ela - GERraupi - GER(SebW - GER) <- not sure what happened to himSo that's 7 out of 35 winners here on Dave's EEVBlog forum, 20% of all winners! Impressive!

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 06:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: continuo on April 02, 2016, 03:05:42 pmHe declined and they drew another name for the 4000 he won.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 06:32:53 pm
content: Quote from: Flanbix on April 02, 2016, 02:29:00 pmI won a DSOX3014T scope in the touch challenge last year, I nominated Microlease as my distributer (I had already ordered other items from them, so it was just easy) and the scope arrived with an invoice for £0.00, with the certificate for all the software options too. As it was delivered and invoiced from a UK company, nothing additional to pay.Took a few weeks to sort out but can't complain over that!

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 06:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: Steve Wayne on April 01, 2016, 10:28:53 pmIf you live in California, are single, make the median personal income and have few deductions, then your tax brackets are 25% for Federal and 9.3% for state. That's 34.3%. So quite easy to end up in the 30-40% bracket.Quote from: Howardlong on April 02, 2016, 09:42:27 amNo, but you can deduct state and local taxes from income for figuring Federal tax. A few states allow deducting Federal tax when figuring state tax. Makes my head hurt.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 09:16:56 pm
content: In California (Los Angeles) it is easy to be in the 40% bracket, make 'a lot' of money but somehow live a modest life in a small house in a neighborhood that has so much gunfire at night you no longer flinch.Small house in slightly above a gang-infested area is $500k+. After taxes and house payment you have to be making a LOT of dough.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 10:09:52 pm
content: So, there is no unified tax system in the US? Different from state to state?BTW: What´s about Tennessee? Why has a winner in Tennessee not to fill the form from KS?Is KS (or the US-Government) expecting that in tennessee is no one able to read and write?And last: About "SebastianW", our new iconic german hero (no, that´s just not enough. He is - I must say it - simply "the Man").He declined? Really? For sure? I have serious doubts.Why should "the man" delete his Postings at Monday evening (08:00 PM german time)afterthe contact with Keysight Germany?(Receiving the same message as ela-ela. Look in the other scopemonth thread.)Except three: The first posting can´t be deleted, in the other two he looks fine (relativly).The 15 postings were he is gone nuts are vanished.I give you four options (feel free to add more, please):1) He was a troll. In no way related to the real winner.(A troll delete his postings?)2) He declined the scope before he knows that he hasn´t to pay VAT.(And stopped suddenly the whining about his bad fate?)3) He declined the scope after he knows that he hasn´t to pay VAT. (WTF? Seriously?)4) After receiving the message from KS Germany he was embarrassed and ashamed.(And he hasn´t the balls to tell, what´s then going on with the winning.)Guess, which is my favourite?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 10:36:30 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on April 02, 2016, 10:09:52 pmOr, he was under 18 and therefore ineligible to enter. My favourite, and the only way I can explain the bizarre episode.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 10:43:39 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on April 02, 2016, 09:42:27 amNot as an expense, but as a capital investment it can be put on a schedule and depreciated over a certain number of years (depending on what bucket IRS places it in), so each future year there is a deduction. This is actually problematic and frankly sucks if you have a business and leads to preposterous situations: say you earn $1M, invest the $1M in equipment and other capital expenses and you have a net $0 in the bank, but you still owe taxes on $1M. And the IRS sure isn't going to accept getting paid in installments. (Of course, if youborrowto make the investment you don't have a taxable profit, which leads to insane arrangements where businesses lease all their equipment, including airlines leasing their own aircraft engines...)

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 03:06:51 am
content: As someone who wasn't lucky enough to win one of the scopes I still had fun entering and hoping each day to see my name drawn. To give away 30+ quality scopes is truly awesome. Many thanks to Keysight for going to all this trouble, and especially working with the winners to help them be able to accept the scope. Hopefully this experience hasn't turned Keysight off from wanting to do more contests in the future.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 03:57:26 am
content: Quote from: CustomEngineerer on April 03, 2016, 03:06:51 am+ 1A big thumbs up to Keysight!(It seems they do it again next year...)And congratulations to the lucky winners!

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 05:57:07 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on April 03, 2016, 03:57:26 amYes! The scopemonth had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. For what it's worth to KS, I ended up watching most of the videos and reading a lot more about KS products.I still have on more chance with the Test To Impress for the 6000 X-Series.Vote for Carlos A. !!!I am currently in 2nd place behind a water heater team.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 06:50:08 am
content: You got my vote, or three. Had been hoping to see you win one of the scopemonth drawings, so good luck with the Test to Impress.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 07:04:47 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 03, 2016, 05:57:07 amI tried to vote, but -- different from your step-by-step instructions -- was asked to log in with a Facebook account, which I don't have. Is there a way to vote without a Facebook login?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 07:41:24 am
content: Seems that the engineering thinkers tend to avoid FB.Kinda cramps the style for objective voting.It's not even a popularity contest - just a voting harvest exercise.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 07:45:33 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 03, 2016, 07:41:24 amFB is a social site

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 08:23:53 am
content: Yeah ..... There's something buzzing around in my head about engineers and social skills.....Think it better stay there.

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 06:23:14 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 03, 2016, 05:57:07 amEvery time I got an email from Keysight I would hope for a second that it was a notification that I won, then I'd see that it was just another marketing email. Not that I minded, I'm perfectly willing to read those emails, but it was quite a few times of getting my hopes up for a few seconds only to have them dashed....

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 06:47:57 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on April 02, 2016, 10:09:52 pmIn the US there are Federal taxes which apply to everyone, State taxes which apply to people living and working in a specific state, which very from state to state )some states have no income tax, but replace it with others, some states have no sales tax but replace it with others, etc), and then there are local taxes for the city or town you live/work in.I only say Sabastian declined because that's what Keysight said in the drawing video, though not specifically mentioning him by name, they just said one of the 4000 winners declined so they were drawing a second name. And truly, that's as much as they should say publicly. What exactly went down? We'll likely never know.Hopefully they do something like this again next year. So I can not win again - I have extremely poor luck at any sort of sweepstakes like this (as in, last time I won ANYTHING was over 40 years ago when I entered to win a go-kart and ended up with the third prize which was tickets to a race). Which is why I rarely gamble (when the lottery hits a few hundred million, I'll buy a ticket).

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 07:22:12 pm
content: On March 25 Keysight gave away two 4000X scopes:Quoteso one of the three former winners obviously had declined his prize, but it remains unclear who it really was. To think it was SebastianW is purely speculative. It might as well have been either Jacob S. or Erwin H., we'll probably never knowOn a side note, I remember Dave mentioned in one of his vids that his "Special Edition" sccopes are fully optioned up, how about the Keysight giveaways? Was it somewhere mentioned?

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 08:09:20 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on April 03, 2016, 07:04:47 amI couldn't find a way without the facebook login. I had to get my wife to log into her account (felt so dirty having facebook logged in on my computer) since I've never had one.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 08:15:03 pm
content: facebook login is required to count the votes. The downside is that anyone can make up an account(s) and vote as many times as they please.Keeping it a fair race is nearly impossible and it has nothing at all to do with the content of the videos.I have been (practically) begging everyone I know to vote and that is all I can/will do. Nervously waiting out the next 2 weeks. Thank you to all voters!!!

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 10:40:52 pm
content: Yeah, the inductive heating project was at least nice presented...But IMO there is really no need for a (further) high bandwidth scope.Not to mention the most of the other videos...It seems: The only real need for a 6 GHz scope is yours.Therefore I had resurrected my ancient FB account yesterday.Unfortunately I had to wait 24 hours for log in.I will vote for you the next 12 days. Every day.I wish you luck and the necessary support on the long run.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 11:54:12 pm
content: Got my vote. And I DID watch the videos first - dunno what's up with the water heater one. The guy with the drone and bike is pretty funny, I guess there might be a need with 5.8GHz RF links, but so far of the ones I watched, yours is the most useful, as far as actually needing a scope of that caliber.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 12:16:27 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on April 03, 2016, 11:54:12 pmI guess you could use it as part of a test setup for the purpose he was after, but I'd say it's probably the wrong tool for the job. For checking circular polarisation and axial ratio you need an antenna range, RF signal generator, reference antenna, a 10dB or so pad, and either an SA or a crystal detector plus an AC millivoltmeter, modulating the RF sig gen with 1kHz AM. I suppose you could use the scope as an outageously expensive AC millivoltmeter, I assume that the DVM function would do that?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 12:18:41 am
content: Thank you all! This could be a wonderful turning point for my little business.I am sharing with all my FB connections, but it is definitely a challenge to get peoples attention in such a noisy social site. Everyone has a charity that needs clicks.....The EEVBlog is a big hope for me in getting the votes UP! Presently about 232 votes behind the water heater. Definitely need to get the EEVBlog pumped to pull in a win!Like I said in another thread - I am able to pay the taxes because of huge write offs from my previous years - IE, I burned all my money trying to get to this point. Pushing forward is painfully slow with no money.If anyone is so inclined - please share in your circles to see if you can encourage voting. Competing with a teenage student is not going to be easy. It will need every single willing participant.

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 02:18:55 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 03, 2016, 05:57:07 amDone. You are still in second place. I will try to remember to vote every day...Keysight really needs to hire a new web page designer. At first I couldn't even find you in the list. I hate when web sites have scroll bars in a frame on the page, but the frame doesn't even fit on screen, so I have to scroll up and down with the browser scroll bar, then scroll down more with the scroll bar in the frame.And you move in the list each time I vote. Maybe that is an attempt at defeating automated voting?

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 02:28:32 am
content: They are trying to stop automated votes. The real problem is that the majority of people (here in the US) want to vote on their phone. Most of my friends are not in an office (they make movies). The site is not at all mobile friendly, this is especially true for iPhone users. The CAPTCHA does not pop up and they think they voted, but they didn't. I have (conservatively) lost a few hundred votes for this.If it does not work or it's a PITA, they move on and don't try again. That is a hard pill to swallow, since I took the time to contact people, had a conversation, they agreed to vote - but ran into tech problems.Ouch!We are still in the race for sure - I am gaining a voting population slowly by pure brute force. I just walked my neighborhood, literally door to door looking for support.

author: Flanbix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 03:04:00 pm
content: I had a reply from the KS team which told me that they can't give any estimate on the taxes I may have to pay (for legal issues).But they are happy to amend the document so I can choose any of the scope I want from the InfiniiVision 3000T X-Series range. Probably go for the MSOX3024T, good upgrade compared to my hacked DS1054Z....

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 03:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: Flanbix on April 04, 2016, 03:04:00 pmIf, as in previous promotions, they ask you to nominate a distributer/reseller then it would be delivered via that nominated route. if you choose one in the UK there will nothing to pay.I won a scope in the touch challenge, I got the scope and just an invoice for £0.00 from my nominated reseller, no tax or VAT was applicable.

author: Flanbix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 03:21:54 pm
content: Well I mention that in my last email. Will see was they come up with.

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 06:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: Flanbix on April 04, 2016, 03:21:54 pmIf they reckon they can't comment for legal reasons (which may be misconceived but they're going to accept their own legal advice, not ours!) then it may be worth a gamble going for the most expensive one ordered through a distributor and see if the same thing happens to you. You can always send it back if they send you a full VAT invoice, but that doesn't seem to be what is happening to others. I'd go for it!