Royel soldering station repair - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 12:24:01 pm
content: HiHave an old white Royel soldering station, single channel. Rear of unit is marked Power Unit E 024. Trying to identify a component marked c357, think it is a triac. Anyone have a circuit diagram or any thoughts?Thanks Chris

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 04:13:40 pm
content: Photo of component please.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 11:08:44 pm
content: Will do, standby.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 11:17:12 pm
content: Please see attached

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 11:24:33 pm
content: https://www.google.com/search?q=bc337+philips&tbs=isz%3Am%2Citp%3Aphoto&udm=2https://www.dca.fee.unicamp.br/courses/EE531/1s2004/datasheet/bc337.pdf(datasheet)

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 11:29:22 pm
content: Spares for those vintage stations dried up years ago, unless you have some tips etc, is it worth the effort !

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 11:44:55 pm
content: This one has been converted to run on a Hakko iron, so spares are not an issue. I have two of these, they were going in the bin in the mid 90's when I was working at GEC-Marconi in Sydney. I keep them as a reminder of those years, and the years in the R.A.A.F when we used Royel stations.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 12:10:01 am
content: Thanks FzabkarThe sticker on the front of this unit says "Zero Volts Switching", and I believe it is 24 VAC for the iron heating. It's been some months since I last looked at this, let me have another look at the circuit board.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 12:40:58 am
content: Quote from: Autronic on August 04, 2024, 11:44:55 pmNice mod to use Hakko parts, Those white stations are solid built.Still have a couple of the later 'black' model in occasional use for memento reasons too.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 12:49:04 am
content: Yep, like the Barbra Streisand song "misty water-coloured memories of the way we were"

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 06:36:08 am
content: Just pulled the board out and found the SCR. It's an S1008L. I would say the transistor recommendation is correct. Need to do a bit more diagnosis.Thanks Chris

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 11:41:58 am
content: In my opinion, unless it has sentimental value to you, it's not worth the bother!You could easily get a C245 station for $50 or a T12 one for $30 (from Aliexpress) and either would be a big improvement.

author: Paceguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2024, 01:16:12 pm
content: If I'm looking at your photo I see a semi C337 not C357. I would think that it's a 2SC337 which can be replaced by a NTE 123AP which could be similar to the BC337. Both are NPN.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 08:53:35 am
content: BC337 is fine.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 12:05:27 pm
content: Thanks Pace, not only should I get my eyes checked, I should get my brain checked as there is no way a TO-92 device would handlethe 8+ amps the iron would draw. It's a faulty SCR, the heating LED is on dim and when I short the anode-cathode on the SCR the LED brightens and the iron heats.To Rayray, yes, I am not sure why I would bother to replace a USD 0.60 SCR to keep my high quality Australian made soldering station serviceablewhen the Chinese are purveyors of such fine soldering equipment.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 12:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: Autronic on August 07, 2024, 12:05:27 pmThat's just nonsensical.Almost all electronics (not to mention electronic components) are made in China nowadays (and have been for well over a decade!) A product made in China isn't synonymous with poor quality, and it's on a case to case basis.I bet your Multimeter, Phone, Fridge, Oven, Microwave, Router, TV, Washing Machine, Air Conditioner, Electric Kettle, Computer Monitor and so much more are all MIC! But regardless, A C245/T12 station would still outweigh your existing soldering station by a mile and would have many advantages, but it's of course your right to keep on using such an outdated station if you insist. Have a nice day.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 01:15:46 pm
content: Indeed, well, you would certainly lose the bet on the multimeter. My Fluke 75 III is made in the USA by the good ol' boys. I am not opposed to Chinese equipment, to my left is a Standig 898D solder station and heat gun which is an excellent tool for it's purpose.As far as outweigh is concerned, are the C245 or T12 transformer based or switch mode?It is not my intent to engage you in polemics, rather to point out in my view high quality Australian made equipment should be repaired and retained serviceable where economically viable.Perhaps to misquote the latin cogito ergo sum, fixus ergo sum?Thanks for your input Ray.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 04:45:16 pm
content: Quote from: RayRay on August 07, 2024, 12:26:50 pmYeah, those modern soldering stations produce much more modern heat! Measured in Joule rather than calories, ya know. I'm not even sure whether modern solder will melt when confronted with that outdated heat from the OP's station...

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 10:53:21 pm
content: I have two dual Royals, RE800/RE900 (the 800 is dual and vac/pressure, the 900 dual vac/pressure and includes resistance soldering and thermal wire strippers with the “biggest arsed” transformer that is huge, you could weld with….not quite!) and about 5 single stations and too many irons and tips to mention.The single stations transformers are 80VA the Tips excellent and still keep up today with their bigger irons. I also have smaller irons for fine stuff and around 130 new tips. The vac pump unequaled by any other de-solder! Any. Their proper wedge tips are still the best thru hole tips ever. Way too many are spade, not wedge! To contact pads and THT leg at both same with large contact areaI am Changing to T12 (because I need more heat on a 6 layer board I do with POWER SO16 a hard chip for any tech, consider the thru hole vias and GND plane all the way thru) so will move on my Royel, (I may keep one or two) but am will miss them and still don’t know what to do about a de-solder station. Nothing sucks like a Royel…..(the Brit’s will love that) or use pressure to blow out holes.They were a great company but basically Hakko improved upon the “Royel” design and Royel failed to keep up. In the end they were sold and their black stations used cheap poorly made Hakko knock offs and was rubbish. They folded. A sad end to Techtron

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 08:57:21 am
content: Yeah, what would I know about Royel? They were used by Her Majesty's Royal Australian Air Force for the high reliability hand soldering course (To NASA standard maybe?) in the 80's.Must be rubbish.Please talk to me before you move your Royel's on WYO, I am sure an elegant sufficiency of funds could be provided in exchange.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 10:15:16 am
content: Yep even earlier The Adcola were virtually early Royals I did the NASA Standards HRHS mid79 with a cassette player that had a stuck tape of Bob Marley! 5 or so weeks of the same tape. Kill me now!Hardest part of my Royels was getting de-soldering irons and parts. I think I have 3 and one that can be put together.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 10:31:17 am
content: Quote from: Autronic on August 07, 2024, 01:15:46 pmSwitch mode, but that part is irrelevant (although, I can't be sure if you were making a weight related pun or if it was a legit question) Regardless, while transformers have certain advantages over SMPS's, one has to consider the application for which they are used for. For an audio amplifier for instance, of course a transformer would be preferable. But for a soldering station it genuinely makes no difference whether it's powered up by a SMPS or TransformerQuote from: ebastler on August 07, 2024, 04:45:16 pmFunny, but it's not just about the basics of melting solder!Modern stations have many advantages, such as higher power/thermal capacity, AIO tips (tips that have the heating element+temp sensor integrated) unlike separates in the old ones, and they also have thinner, less bulkly handles with less distance from the tip to the handle (which helps a lot with SMD components), plus have a much wider variety of available tips.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 11:09:22 am
content: Have to correct there. The Royel has heater and sensor connected together mere mm apart. I know I unwound one. Some nichrome wire with small weld tab then off the heater feedback while heat and return go indifferent lines and gnd is also included on outer sheath. They were first MilStd soldering stations. Even in USAAre they still good. Hell yes. But not aimed at mass SMD work era where the solder (metal glue) needs high temp. Sure they can do this but it’s just more difficult.Also needed drag solder tips to do QFN144 and other SMD ICs. These ICs were after Royel era So needed a Hakko 936 and drag tips. But it’s vac station, ….still the worlds best IMHO Made to vac desolder all day long!Ok Royel had been superseded but come back in 40 years and ask me if my cheap T12 stations still work! Thats so how old some Royel are and they will work for another 40+ yrs no problem. They still are very useable but for all the varied work I do I can no longer continue with them.Except the vac station. No idea how to replace that

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 11:32:01 am
content: Yeah ebastler, Joule, it sounds like a girl's name. Tho calorie does rhyme with Mallory so who knows?. All this modernity, it drives me insane in the membrane, insane in the brain.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 12:18:49 pm
content: Funny, but it's not just about the basics of melting solder!Modern stations have many advantages, such as higher power/thermal capacity, AIO tips (tips that have the heating element+temp sensor integrated) unlike separates in the old ones, and they also have thinner, less bulkly handles with less distance from the tip to the handle (which helps a lot with SMD components), plus have a much wider variety of available tips.Do you imply funny as in humorous, or funny as in peculiar?

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 12:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 07, 2024, 04:45:16 pmThe OP's station certainly would not melt modern solder currently, as it is unserviceable. Could put a push button on it tho and run it like an old Scope iron. Brute force and ignorance and would melt everything in their path those Scope's.The rampant hide of those Czech immigrants to come to Australia from a war ravaged county, where they likely had nothing, invent a company likely out of nothing, invent a soldering iron that contained basically nothing, that would melt lead alloy solder and most likely non lead solder and fuse components and sometimes my fingers together.Those Czech's must have looked on at Royel and sneered. Scope had a human-machine interface where one could pulse width modulate the heat at one's beck and call. A slide switch, and later a lever action switch on the mini Scope. To quote the Latin again "calefac bastardis""Nothing sucks like a Royel" - the sun in my heart for a thousand years.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 02:05:59 pm
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 11:09:22 amThat’s not what RayRay was saying.What they meant is that the heater (and sensor) are integrated into thetip, what they referred to as an “AIO tip” (AIO = all in one), though nobody calls them that — the normal term for them is “cartridge heater tips”, “tip heater cartridges”, etc (“cartridge” being the key word). That in contrast to traditional iron design, where the heater (with sensor) is one thing, and the tip is completely separate (as a part that goes either into or over the heater assembly).Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 11:09:22 amSMD has been in wide use since long before lead-free came along and needed higher temperatures. SMD was mass-produced for over 20 years using 60/40 and 63/37 before lead-free got mandated. And for several decades before that, SMD was also done, but only in military/aerospace. (That is to say: around 1980, SMD started to become used in mass-produced consumer products, particularly compact portable devices like cameras and camcorders. But it had been in use for aerospace and military since the 1960s.)And calling solder “metal glue” makes me vomit in my mouth a little bit. (Not to mention how odd it is that you even felt the need at all to explain what solder is. I think everyone here, even the most newbies of beginners, knows what solder is.)

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 06:23:39 pm
content: No offence intended but after being brought up on 63/37 and mil spec soldering there is a reason I and aerospace military are staying with it. But yes tech had moved on. Of course I know of AIO tips that’s what I’m moving to. The Royel he has is not junk snd still capable of 10 degrees C tip accuracy after wot40 yrs. As pointed out most others won’t even be working.But exactly as you said AIO is capable of nearly 1-2 degrees C top accuracy even under load. That is why I an moving away.Just pointing out the Royel is not junk 40 years and still cal’able to its spec. The quip about metal glue really is in relation to early non lead laptop motherboards but still exists the whole “reflow world” exists from an issue with solder that shouldn’t happen. Yet it does.But that’s another battle ground nothing to to with RoyelTo OP I have Royal bits (enough for too many life times) and know their design and have ccts drawn if you need assistance.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 02:48:53 am
content: Rayrays starts the "don't repair it, throw it out" movement of 2024.Gains minimal traction after being initially launched in a repair thread on an electronics forum.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 06:46:04 am
content: Thanks WYO, may call on you if this bumblingly incompetent RADTECHG can't get his brain to work and fix this thing. I can't criticize Rayray too much, most of us have come into a conversation mid way and made a mess of it.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 07:10:58 am
content: Indeed we have become a throw away society that is frankly wrecking this world. Recycling of electronics is way to low for precious metals. But often toxic and more expensive than digging up and refining more.For younger members a Royel is a good starter. I went thru and reversed all their designs in dual/vac stations and they have 3 or 4 versions of control PCBs. But essentially they all do the same it was probably changed died to parts on hand costs. An 80VA soldering system is not useless. But only as good as your tips, flux, solder and skills.It’s a pity they didn’t keep up they lost their head designer Walsh. Then Royelwas sold to Coltronics and went down hill fast. The company became Varian which became Agilent. But they ceased Melbourne manufacture.If ya need a part or PCB, iron, tip, contact me. I will be moving on my Royal cheap (very soon) (about over a dozen irons of various sizes and around 130 new tips and around 40 desolder tips all new and sheaths) as I’m moving on but as said the vac and pressure pump along with dual irons was absolute pleasure and no idea how to replace such a good vac unit. But I find their tips really last well especially since we started using brass wool. I get years from my tips.I was old clock’ie we all became AV techs during F18 era and rightly so. But some of the specialists in sone areas during the change were so good they couldn’t be moved. But like any big company (the RAAF) you are the fist in a bucket. Take it out the water fills the gaps rapidly. But I do remember getting phone calls from F111 pavetack and cameras years after I went to F18 nitehawk. I mean what the!

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 10:33:37 am
content: WYO, of course us full blood Radtech's resisted the change, but it was good for all I believe.I remember the pamphlet that went around, all about the air trade amalgamation,and one sentence at the end for the Groundies. One of the guys at 3CRU got up at a BBQ with Mark Skidmore et al and asked "Sir, is this all you think of us?". Red faces from the senior staff. Same BBQ where Shorty, an elec fitter blurted out "Skidmore? does that mean he has skidmarks?" when Mark was introduced. This is why I keep my Royel, and will take your best unit that you will sell.Please PM me.Yeah, Pavetack, saw a photo from a RECON F-111 that went over us at PB 93 when we had Westinghouse's finest AN/TPS-43 out near Tindal. The resolution was incredible. I thought " we haven't got a chance". (Incidentally when we got there a wire was broken in the back of one of the racks in the radar cabin (Depot level repair) and that radar was sustained serviceable by a 6V dolphin torch battery sat on the floor with two wires running thru a panel) Wires not soldered on by Royel tho, by '93 we were using Pace as i recall.F-111's, fantabulous,but Goop Troop, a tragedy of epic proportions.Very high human cost to maintain the freedom in this country.Rayray, I will guarantee you that WYO knows what "Rounds on center of body mass" means, and will piss himself laughing when he reads this link.https://www.reddit.com/r/insurgency/comments/wdol4l/brandnew_chinese_qbz191_assault_rifles_cant_put/We had Dieudonne Saive's finest. Known in it's time as the right arm of the free world.The Belgians were occupied during WW2 and clearly didn't enjoy it. The Austrians by comparison didn't mind quite so much.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:10:25 am
content: Quote from: Autronic on August 09, 2024, 06:46:04 amI have to call you out on this: this is a public discussion forum where anyone has the right to enter a discussion at any point. And I certainly don’t see RayRay in any way having “made a mess of it”. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean they made a mess of anything.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:19:23 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 09, 2024, 11:10:25 amYou may call me out as you see fit tooki, perception is 9/10th's of reality.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:35:25 am
content: tooki, sixth post into the conversation"I have two of these, they were going in the bin in the mid 90's when I was working at GEC-Marconi in Sydney. I keep them as a reminder of those years, and the years in the R.A.A.F when we used Royel stations. "

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:42:17 am
content: Quote from: Autronic on August 09, 2024, 11:35:25 amYep.And RayRay’s first response starts with:Quote from: RayRay on August 05, 2024, 11:41:58 am(Emphasis mine.)Regardless, it’s bizarre that you guys are getting your knickers in such a twist over someone daring to express an opinion in a public forum.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 11:59:14 am
content: Not really. I have good knowledge of Royels, most. I hate throwaway society as said this Royel will outlive him and mine outlive me....will these cheap stations do this? My Royel tips are excellent as good if not better than many. I know I can compare them. I rarely change a tip even though I have more than enough for 5 lifetimes (new old stock still in packets by the dozens).I agree everyone can have their say, but throwaway isn't my thing and shouldn't be but sadly is in society we throw stuff away, yet this forum, has a great love for older well made electronics equipment. This is just part of it.I understand its limits and know horses for courses. Which has forced my hand to change, reluctantly. But If I can help the OP....I will, parts, cct brds, knowledge, tips.

author: Autronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 12:00:49 pm
content: My knickers aren't in a twist, it's sport old son. And as to the right, perhaps we might ask Mr Jones about the privilege to use his forum?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 12:14:08 pm
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 06:23:39 pmWho was this reply addressed at? Should I assume it was addressed at me, since it immediately follows a reply of mine?Individual points:Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 06:23:39 pmI don’t see any place in this thread where anyone was suggestingyouswitch to lead-free solder.Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 06:23:39 pmDo other brands of soldering stations actually tend to fail sooner than Royel? There are some Pace, Ersa, and Weller soldering stations at work that are older than I am. At my old job, also an old Adcola. It seems to me thatallof the big brands were making durable, repairable product 40 years ago. (I predict we will see bigger differences when today’s soldering stations age.) The impression I get is that people replace old soldering stations not because they break, but either because their needs change, or because parts and consumables become unavailable. (Or because they can’t be bothered to invest the time in repairing a decades-old tool, even if parts are available!)I recognize that survivor bias means I’m not seeing any soldering stations that did fail and were discarded in the past. But from what I have heard and read in general, soldering stations are fundamentally quite reliable devices.Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 06:23:39 pmI don’t see where anyone made claims about the temperature accuracy of cartridge heater tips. (I certainly didn’t.) Not saying this is factually incorrect, merely that it could be taken as putting words in someone’s mouth.Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 08, 2024, 06:23:39 pmI’ll do my best to try and decipher what’s being said here, but I am not 100% sure what you mean.But solder isn’t glue.Reflow soldering has existed since long before lead-free solder was mandated, and long before laptops came out. It’s been around since the 1960s IIRC. Sure, it did not used to be the dominant PCB assembly method, but it definitely existed, as did solder pastes to do it with.Reading between the lines, are you talking about the GPU failures that happened some years ago which people “solved” by “reflowing” the boards in the oven? The ones where people were heating them to wellbelowthe melting point of even leaded solder (never mind the lead-free used), and still achieving “success” (which usually failed again a few months later)? If so, the process involved pretty much demonstrates that the solder likely wasn’t the problem. IIRC they never definitively identified what the cause was, at least not publicly.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2024, 12:16:33 pm
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on August 09, 2024, 11:59:14 amAs do I. And no, I don’t expect cheap Chinese stations to last particularly long. But I would expect high-quality modern ones to.