Device programmers that can program TMS2716 (+5, -5, +12 with 25Vpp) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 07:15:37 pm
content: Does anyone know of a common EPROM device programmer that can read and program the TMS2716 EPROM?This part is unique in that it requires 3 voltages to operate and it needs +25V for the Vpp programming voltage. The Xegu T48 claims to be able to do then butI have that device programmer and I have confirmed that it will not program the device even though it is listed in their device list and in the programming software.It fails with an over current warning on Vpp. The Vpp on the device can be set to 25V but I believe that the other required voltages (+12 and -5) are not available. Hopefully it did not end up toasting my brand new (not even lead formed) part.I suspect the reason for the programming failure is because the hardware can not support all of the voltages and most likely they have not also implemented the proper programming method. If someone has a T48 and has had success programming the TMS2716 I would like to know how you did it.I have attached the data sheet for the part so you can see the differences between more modern 5V single supply 2716's.I have a one time use for this to try and make a set of good EPROMS for an old timer ham (98 years) for his Microlog ATR-6800 terminal. If anyone knows a ham that has this terminal I really need a clone of the EPROM's to effect the repair.Thank you so much for your time.SamW3OHM

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 07:29:41 pm
content: https://www.mattmillman.com/projects/hveprom-project/an-easy-to-build-programmer-for-2704-2708-mcm68764-mcm68766-eproms/https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175427706981https://www.ebay.ca/itm/166344931507older Data I/O programmers like the 22 or 29Bxeltec superpro 610pother forums say : promicron 2000, Digelec 804, Wavetek EP804 ? dont know thesesDataman module for some programmer :https://www.dataman.com/products/module-2708some Elnec too since Dataman have the same models different branding

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 08:25:06 pm
content: For a one off project, I suggest outsourcing the programming to an arcade parts person.You might be able to find someone local (there are a surprising number of people who fix old arcade games), otherwise here's one mail order option:http://www.hobbyroms.com/Another good way to go is to make a pinout adapter board for an EEPROM (assuming there's enough vertical space).

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:29:07 pm
content: Well I have two issues. One is finding a low cost programmer. I already have several programmers but none will do that part. I have an old Andratech AR-28 that I built years ago that might be able to do the job but I can't find the manual and the software I have for it is MSDOS on 5 1/4 disk! I might post a thread on that in the hope that someone has it and the software in some other form.The second problem is I need to find some Amateur Radio operator that has a Microlog ATR-6800 that will let me make a copy of the EPROMS so I can make a set since my friend damaged his (unrecoverable data) while attempting to repair the PCB (It's a long involved sad story).So before my friend spends money on a programmer (if I can't come up with something) I need to find a source for the EPROM data.Thanks for the response!SamP.S. I knew about the DIY one and I may go that route. Thanks

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:00:28 pm
content: My 2 bits..dump / read the contents of the original 2716 device but transfer their contents into a rather updated flash device with similar pinout. The replacement can then be programmed by your current programming tools. Otherwise, the use of UV lights and high voltage VPP is just ghetto these days. Dating myself but we do have the UV eraser and most likely the required 2716 programmers in the building but will have a pile of dust on each. You can also over erase the UV windowed parts which makes life even more fun.Start with a proper datasheet of the original 2716 and then hunt for flash devices that match or come close to the same pinout. It is ok if the target is a larger density, you can always strap the device to become the original device density.To pacify the programming tool which may moan about the address lines, leave them as-is but inject multiple copies of the same firmware at the proper boundaries. After this verification, proceed to strap the address lines to suit. We have done this with old dog farm equipment with success.

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: mon2 on February 07, 2025, 11:00:28 pmWell that is all good except you have to find a programmer that can at least read these parts which means it has to have the proper mapping and the correct voltages. I have researched the data sheet and fully understand what is involved there. I did find half a rail of new TMS2716 parts and my UV eraser so I am covered there. If I can get the original EPROM's to clone I will have the code in HEX and BIN and once they are reprogrammed they will be good for another 40+ years which will be way past the useful life of the target device. When I am done, assumining I can clone the EPROMs I'll post the HEX and BIN files somewhere so if 41 years from now someone can deal with modernizing a device that was built in probably 1979-1980!Thanks for the response!SamW3OHMP.S. There is nothing with a pinout that is close enough that would allow doing this without making an adapter PCB and for a one off it would be more trouble than it isworth since I have unused TMS2716 parts that I can program. The hard part now is finding someone that still has the device so I can clone the EPROMS.

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:51:57 pm
content: Quote from: scopeman on February 07, 2025, 11:12:40 pmIf it's that tough to find a programmer for the old EPROM have you considered just breadboarding it and pulling data off with a ATmega644 (or your favorite MCU or dev-board)? This is what I did with an HN482764. I have an UV eraser and even managed to re-program it using the jankiest power supply and the documented algorithm in the datasheet:21V from my bench supply ---- EPROM Vpp (when programming)21V from my bench supply ---- 12V zener ---- 6V regulator ---- EPROM Vcc (when programming)21V from my bench supply ---- 12V zener ---- 5V regulator ---- EPROM Vpp, EPROM Vcc, MCU Vcc (normal reading)Are you familiar with Arduino or other MCU software environment?

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 12:36:49 am
content: Well I am familar with the hardware side as my favorite programming language is solder. I am not a programmer and code very little as I am not good at it. Besides this is a one timejob and I would prefer to know it out and move on to the next project as time is certainly money.The point of reading and programming those parts will be moot anyway if I can't find someone that has a Microlog ATR-6800 that I can get access to clone the EPROMS.Thanks,Sam

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 05:53:21 am
content: Sorry I don't have a straight answer. But I did have experience of implementing a programmer for it after I found that TL866 can't program it. That was 5..8 years ago, and I don't have code or schematic for it. So, I can only give you some pointers that I still remember.2716 does not need -5 and +12. Only +5 for reading, and +21... 25 Vprg if you need to program it. (but some flavors of 2708 need -5 and -12)I did it all on a breadboard with an Ardiuno wired into the board as it was also a one time job. I think I used a couple of SN74LS299 shift registers for address bus as there were not enough GPIO pins on the Arduino board. Get the datasheet and study the programming waveforms - they are pretty simple to implement in Arduino code. Get the byte to program onto the data bus, set the address bus, pulse some control lines like WE/CS/Vprg, then go to next byte with next address.The code to program into the EPROM was just a part of Arduino program - in a static array.Reading that EPROM was even simpler - reading and dumping into the serial port as text hex.I was surprised that this all was so easy that took about one or two evenings.

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 05:59:11 am
content: Quote from: tchicago on February 08, 2025, 05:53:21 amUPD: I see the your TMS flavor of the chip does need -5 and +12... I think I used i2716 or was it from SGS-Thompson. Definitely was a purely +5V device for reading, and needed additional 21V for programming.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 01:38:31 pm
content: i've seen some diy sockets projects with some added chips / micro dc-dc converters and transistors to provide logic, even working for the tl866 ...you have an expensive Dataman module 2708 who has the same strategy but expensive as h$##%not all programmer brand are honest, some do claim tri voltage, but not generate negatives ones ....

author: JimKnopf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2025, 04:54:27 pm
content: I have min. two programmers that can handle this EPROMS.Batronix BX48 II BategoRetro Chip Tester (RTC) from 8bit-museum.de (DIY project).

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2025, 06:27:58 pm
content: Hi Jim,I ended up with the HVEPROM that was a hackaday project. A fellow had a bunch of excess PCB's and decided to build a few up as complete tested units and put them on eBay for $120.00.I figured the hassle and expense of getting all of the parts and then having the time to build it and I figured that has price was very fair. It only programs TMS2708's and TMS2716's and a Motorola partbut it does the job and is USB and will run on Win10. I highly recommend this unit as it got me out of a big bind. I have one other programmer the Andratech model AR28 which can also do the TMS2708 and the TMS2716 (their newer model AR32 can too) but I needed to make and adapter and I'm short on time so the hackaday project was the quick ticket.Here is the link for it:https://www.mattmillman.com/projects/hveprom-project/an-easy-to-build-programmer-for-2704-2708-mcm68764-mcm68766-eproms/You can see the Andromeda Research Labs units here:www.arlabs.comThey make a really nice product that will run on any system that has a true parallel port like and old Dell D610 laptop or the Dell E-Series with a docking station or any old PC you have. The software can be run from a bootable USB or CDROM. Pretty slick. I have probably eight or so device programmers and my old Andratech M28 is probably still one of my favorites. When their company was getting a start in the 80's the sold blank boards with a manual and the software so I built mine up in an old Biddle Potentiometer case back in 1984. If you would like to see the manual I could send you a copy.I even thought about laying out a new PCB for it with SpintLayout 6.0 as a spare. Maybe someday.Thanks again for taking the time to write me back.Best Regards,Sam