Printing fractal antennas - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: openthomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 12:54:24 pm
content: Hi all,Pretty interested in fractal antennas recently. I would like to print some but not sure how to go about it. Here is a project that caught my eyehttp://www.breenspace.com/exhibitions/joyce-hinterding-aura/20091105_002-joyce-hinterding-breen-space.jpg.phpThis video instructs on how to spray paint a wifi fractal antenna, but this method seems less than ideal as I would like to make a number of prototypes.I was thinking more along the lines of printing using a inkjet on plastic sheet using some type of metallic ink.Any ideas ?

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 01:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: openthomas on January 21, 2013, 12:54:24 pm"Entitled Aura, these graphite and gold drawings take the form of fractal antennas. When connected to a sound system they make audible the critical mass of signals and energy emitted from the local environment. Formally the drawings operate as meditative fields that depict and compress time and space within distorted soundscapes."WHAT?QuoteSmells a lot like

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 01:46:19 pm
content: Can't you etch a home-made PCB with the pattern? That would only work for a small antenna.

author: openthomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
content: Yes the explanation is bullshit. What she has done is print a wideband fractal antenna which when hooked through a speaker makes electromagnetic interference in the room audible.Etching is too slow for prototyping. Is there a way to print conductive ink through an inkjet printer ?

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 03:18:52 pm
content: I don't think you can buy conductive ink for your home inkjet printer but look at this:http://www.conductiveinkjet.comDo you have any proof that fractal antenna's can work? I've never seen any in use, and I really can't see how they would work.

author: openthomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 03:26:29 pm
content: Also very interesting experimentation using nanoparticle silver inkhttp://engineering.illinois.edu/news/2011/03/15/3d-printing-method-advances-electrically-small-antenna-designhttp://lewisgroup.seas.harvard.edu/files/adams_advmat_2011_0.pdf

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 03:26:49 pm
content: Some subjects attract attention from some extreem sides starting all kinds of types .I did not look at any of the links , read through the posts so far and made an assumption that this is coming from one of the extreems I tend not to fallow ?On the other end of things , this subject has come up on some ham radio forums , usually after one of the PBS - public TV shows about the subject .And every time the subject comes up the guy that is in the PBS show gets into online fights about the subject .To me it sound interesting and someday I plan on playing with fractal antennas .A couple of links I have gather , the 1st being the guy that is the inventer and subject of the PBS show ,http://fractenna.com/FractalAdvantage.html2ndhttp://www.qsl.net/kb7qhc/antenna/fractal/index.htm

author: openthomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 03:29:31 pm
content: Yes I have already contacted them no reply as yet.Fractal antennas work. They are widely used in cell phones

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 04:06:15 pm
content: Quote from: openthomas on January 21, 2013, 03:26:29 pmThis is not what I would call fractal.Quote from: KD0CAC John on January 21, 2013, 03:26:49 pmThere, you said it, it's his living. Not too much detail there either, no examples, no pictures?QuoteA lot of 15 year old ezNEC calculations, but again no practical designs? (maybe I didn't search long enough...)Quote from: openthomas on January 21, 2013, 03:29:31 pmAre you sure, they just look like folded strips, no fractals there. Do you have any pictures of a fractal cellphone antenna?I'm not trying to be against the idea just for the fun of it, but I've seen so many 'revolutionary' antenna designs over the years, and they all disappear after a while.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 04:06:39 pm
content: Laser printer and gold powder which you sprinkle over the toner then fuse it with a set of rollers then remove excess. Could prove a little expensive, unless you use colloidal silver powder ( and go grey in a few years) and do the same. Copper powder would also work, though it would corrode with time and make a mass of tiny rectifiers.

author: openthomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 06:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 21, 2013, 04:06:39 pmCan you reference a more detailed description of this method ? What do you mean by rollers ? How is it fused ?What would go grey the antenna or my skin ?Quote from: PA0PBZ on January 21, 2013, 04:06:15 pmIts not, but printing with nanoparticle ink on a curved substrate is a new technique.Here is a cellphone antennahttp://www.scienceprog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007i/fractal/cell_antenna.gifThis is another attempt for a wifi antenna using etching and there are three introductory texts in pdf format to look athttp://www.andrewhazelden.com/blog/2011/02/homemade-sierpinski-gasket-fractal-wifi-antenna/

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 06:41:05 pm
content: QuoteThat looks like a prototype, not a production thing, and even in the article (from 2007) they say"Today fractal antenna technology is in early stages"QuoteYes, I did already see that one. I guess the quote from the author says it all:The Sierpinski Gasket Fractal Antenna does work but it is just the first prototype version. The design hasn't been tuned with a spectrum analyzer yet so there is a lot of room for improvement. I would only recommend this antenna design if you are into building antennas for fun. If you are looking for a high performance WiFi antenna a regular 2.4 GHz patch antenna is a good choice.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 06:43:00 pm
content: Pretty much the same way that you do laminates with coloured films. Print the design, then sprinkle it with metal powder, then place a cover sheet on top and send it through a laminator to fuse the metal to the toner particles on the paper. Take out, then dust off excess.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 07:23:05 pm
content: Use the same process as the photo-copy for circuit boards .Built still need antenna theory and dimensions for the frequency needed .

author: openthomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 07:45:09 pm
content: That sounds easy enough and copper is cheap and easily available. Would it work with a laser printer as well as inkjet ? Would I have to fuse to paper or would plastic sheet work ok ? How do I prevent the metal fusing to the cover sheet ? Does the metal melt ? How does it fuse exactly ? Is this a well known technique ?

author: bradleytron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 08:19:54 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on January 21, 2013, 03:18:52 pmIf you have a cell phone then your possibly using a fractal antenna.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 08:47:11 pm
content: Quote from: bradleytron on January 21, 2013, 08:19:54 pmReally?

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2013, 09:00:24 pm
content: Do a search here or Google it , photo copier process for making boards , just saw a thread here the other day it went to a YouTube video .You start with a board that has a copper coating and ment for making circuit boards .

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2013, 02:10:29 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on January 21, 2013, 03:18:52 pmCheck you cell phone for some proof.