Graphic overlay for front panel - where or how? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: elCap
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2011, 05:12:59 am
content: Hello all!I'm looking for graphic overlays to put on my front panels to make my projects look more professional.(I case you don't know what graphic overlays are, I didn't, it's the film you put on the front panel with all the text for buttons, connectors and LED's, and the logo, etc.)While browsing I found many suppliers but all have a minimum order, usually 100, and are a little expensive. And many of them are in the US. I would like to use a Chinese/Asia one as they probably have lower price and are in same region as me, faster delivery.Anyone know of any good manufacturer of graphic overlays at low price?And also, as graphic overlays basically is just a piece of plastic film with some text and graphics, it can't be too hard to make by yourself. Anyone have any good information on how to make professional looking overlays?I have been thinking of using a pcb as Dave suggests but sometimes I prefer to use film as it protects buttons and display from environment, splash of coffee, sharp obejct and so on.(I case you wonder: currently I want an overlay with a clear window for LCD, text for 3 buttons and 2 connectors. There should be no cut outs in the film as buttons can be push via the film and the connector are on another surface of the box.)Thanks!

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2011, 06:22:05 pm
content: One thing I am going to try is to laser print a mirrored image onto some OHP transparency and then use mount spray to stick it to the enclosure front panel. I think once it is bonded it should be pretty strong, the printing is on the underside so shouldn't wear off. I guess you could try toner-transfer by ironing the image onto the panel and then spraying it with a clear varnish, but toner transfer seems very hit and miss.I have a black enclosure that I need a front panel for. In this case I am going to print it inverted (so that the normally marked areas are clear) and apply an opaque layer of white acrylic paint to make the graphics appear. As before, spray mounting it onto the existing front panel. If only we could get white inkjet ink or toner!

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2011, 06:55:18 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on June 01, 2011, 06:22:05 pmFrom experience, the spray mount method looks less than stellar. I use 3M 77 spray for many things. It works great. Under transparency, it looks like cow dung. I think you need something that goes on wetter and you can squeegee out. Not sure what that is though. Spraying the back fixes that, but I worry that the paint won't bond as well to the film and the glue may keep the paint but not the film.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2011, 08:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: Zad on June 01, 2011, 06:22:05 pmIn my experience matte polyester drafting film works much better than OHP film. The toner takes better and the matte surface doesn't show finger marks or slight surface irregularities as much. Harder to find though.Material like the base sheets herehttp://www.megauk.com/quickmark.phpprovide a double sided adhesive and color background and work well. The material isn't very hard so if you screw things on top of it (like switches, connectors etc) it will tend to be squeezed and bulge a little around them.I have also made panels/labels by just printing on paper laser labels and covering with film like the over laminating film in the above link. You need to be sure the label adhesive is going to stick well enough to your surface.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2011, 09:59:16 pm
content: I have heard of good results printing a mirrored image of your panel design onto OHP film and sticking it onto the front panel with some very thin clear double sided adhesive film. This film is/was used for technical drawings. I haven't tried it yet and don't know what the adhesive film is called or where to get it, though.Has anybody tried laser printing on silver adhesive film and coating it with plastic spray? The silver film is available in A4 sheets from 3M, I think. I couldn't find it now, it's also rather expensive.Without coating with transparent spray the toner will probably be not very scratch resistant, spraying it might smudge the toner, though.Anybody tried this?http://www.bungard.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=77&lang=english

author: elCap
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2011, 03:08:48 am
content: Thanks all! Now I have some ideas to work with. Especially good idea of inverting the printout for when using black boxes (which I always do..)I think I'll get a laminating machine to be able to make multilayer overlay. For instance a clear film for LCD, and some matte film for other areas.I have sort of given up on getting manufactured overlays for small projects, but I'll keep my eyes open! For projects in volumes of over 10 or high-cost ones I guess I'll go for manufactured overlays.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2011, 04:09:03 am
content: There is letters sets , of all Fonts and sizes , they are like the stickers , or better imagine the dual side sticky tape.All that you have to do is to turn the carton with the letters upside down, and softly press with a pencil the back of its letter,so to stick on the surface that you need to be , and then softly you pull the carton of it,and the letter stays in the place that you need it .By repeating the process, you can write any word or add numbers .But as soon you finish , you must use clear plastic spray ( known as type 70 ) so to shield the letters from scratches or damage.And so you spray on the panel an complete layer of plastic .Ok this is how it looks like

author: johnwa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2011, 10:14:17 am
content: Quote from: sacherjj on June 01, 2011, 06:55:18 pmYes, I tried this a while ago, it looked a bit ordinary, and the glue I used wouldn't go off for some reason. I eventually got a toner transfer to work (onto scratch-finished aluminium) - this looks quite nice, but it took me quite a few goes to get right.I have also just used laser printed paper labels, covered in 'contact' (self adhesive clear film) - these look OK, but you will probably get a few air bubbles.You should be able to get CNC engraving or laser marking done for a one-off, although you will of course have to pay a setup fee. Try going to a shop that does sports trophies. These processes give really nice results on materials with layers in contrasting colours, such as anodised aluminium or coated plastic.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2011, 12:22:04 pm
content: on the subject of front panels...If you have a bare metal front panel on some enclosure you wish to use for a project but it has scratches that ruin the look, you can use a wire brush all over the panel and you'll end up with a nice brushed metal look that totally hides the scratches

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2011, 12:51:56 pm
content: I usually use the matt drafting film these days which seems to hold up pretty well. It doesn't look as good for a panel with reversed lettering (i.e., large areas of black) - it looks scratched pretty quickly.I have used the laminator method in the past. One thing that worked really well was one of the inkjet photo papers, which was actually some kind of thin plastic sheet (a Kodak product I believe). When laminated, it became one with the lamination sheet. There was no way it would ever come apart or separate. Sorry I can't remember anything more about the material.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2011, 10:27:02 pm
content: Gave up on all the decals and lettering a while ago and use Front Panel Express now.Panels are engraved and can be filled as required. Free layout software from their site which will also give you a quote on the design.http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 12:12:15 am
content: In this example I had use only my imagination.http://hackedgadgets.com/2010/09/04/diy-resistors-decade-box/

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 12:12:29 am
content: Quote from: DrGeoff on June 02, 2011, 10:27:02 pmI'll put my hand up as another regular user of frontpanel express. Not the cheapest option but the results are first class with lots of options.lots of options with aluminium acrylic and perspex that you could not achieve without CNC milling and a good range of finishes, infill colours and anodised colours. FPE have suggested they will be offering anodised printing printing before too long which will offer ever better finish options.European uses should look at sister/parent companyhttp://www.schaeffer-ag.de/index.php?id=97&L=1

author: elCap
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 02:33:36 am
content: Frontpanelexpress I have seen before and seems good. I plan to use them in the future. But if you want some environment protection for gear using that type of front panel you need to go with more expensive buttons and controls. (But hey, then it will look even more professional)For small handheld devices a graphic overlay seems best, light weight.Did you put any protecting coating on the labels? Looks nice anyhow! (but I think I would have made it cover all of the panel)Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on June 03, 2011, 12:12:15 am

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 03:07:44 am
content: Quote from: elCap on June 03, 2011, 02:33:36 amWhy would you need more expensive controls for a FPE panel than for any other method? Controls are selected to suit the intended IP environment. The panels themselves are much more robust than any laminated or stick-on options. I have their engraved anodised product on the service panels of a drag car. you wont get a much harsher environment.They wont be the cheapest option but as panels go the "pick any two rule" applies.Cheap|Durable|AttractiveIf it's durable and attractive it wont be cheap!If it's cheap and attractive it wont be durable!If it's cheap and durable it wont be attractive!That's not saying some of the printed panels shown above don't look professional and attractive but I'd doubt any would stand up to heavy real world use. As always the end choice is yours to use any of the suggestions offered.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 03:27:12 am
content: I would say scrap the idea about FrontpanelexpressThe aluminum panel that came with your box , stays out of use.And you have pay it all ready, and additionally you pay and for the second.If this is not a waste of money , what is it ?

author: elCap
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 03:48:57 am
content: Yes, it was the IP rating I was think about, those usually have a higher price.If I want simple splash protection for a LCD and some buttons, I guess an overlay is easiest and low cost. But for a race car I would probably use a FPE panel and required IP rated controls as well.(Laminates don't last long in a though environment.. if you have seen the hand terminals used in a supermarket, operated by women with long nails you know what I mean)Quote from: Uncle Vernon on June 03, 2011, 03:07:44 am

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 03:58:46 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on June 03, 2011, 03:27:12 amThat's your choice. Not being your choice doesn't preclude it FPE being a viable option.QuoteNo! if you so desire you could send your supplied aluminium panel for etching, milling engraving and have the finished panel posted back to you. If you don't it's a hand piece of aluminium that any creative DIY-er will find handy for any number of required fabrication jobs. Postage costs and extra delivery vs value of a small piece of light gauge sheet aluminium and I know what I'll be doing.QuoteOh a few things come to mind. Farting about with Letraset when I could earn a few hundred dollars comes to mind. Besides you always end up with unused consonants and "8"s and "9"s on those sheets.End of the day it's individual choice of how people want their projects to look and cost. For my money I want anything I construct to look as well made and as professional as it can be for a reasonable cost compromise. There are pluses and minuses for all options.I'm not suggesting FPE as the only possibility, it's not!! However to dismiss it as uneconomic or a waste of money is myopic. What works for YOU or ME is not automatically the sole recommendation for others!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 04:16:39 am
content: Quote from: elCap on June 03, 2011, 03:48:57 amThe FPE panels are engraved/milled aluminium or perspex not adhesive laminate overlays. I use those too at times too. Some brands of those work (wear) better than others. Your quite correct about susceptibility to wear those with a clear overlay stand up better over time. All types of the panels I've used are susceptible to cracking and fatigue around press-through push-buttons over time.I'm yet to find a cost effective option for one-offs or tiny quantities of printed laminate overlays if there is any recommendations for I'd be keen to look at other vendors.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 06:43:53 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on June 03, 2011, 03:27:12 amFor me, shitty looking wobbly lettering on home made panels just don't cut it when stuck in a rack with a load of other high quality gear.If you are going to spend time and money on designing and making the product then it's not that much more to do a high quality panel for it. If it's just a home made device to use in your shed then that's a different story and there's no need to make it look too smart.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 07:31:06 am
content: The FPE/Schaeffer panels are not too expensive, at least if you need more than one of the same panel.The tooling is the expensive part, so if you try to minimise different shape/size cut-outs you can drive down cost considerably.I've used Schaeffer before for a small audio mixing console, mainly because I couldn't get the long narrow slits for the faders done at home. Not having CNC equipment I had to use saw & file and as I lack the sort of skil needed for very accurate metalwork the slits looked all wonky (Shame there isn't a drill bit that makes rectangular holes - I'm good with the drill press).For most one off stuff FPE is usually to expensive so I try to avoid any front panel markings. If there are buttons that need labeling I use buttons that allow you to put paper labels in, like thesehttp://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/705275/Marquardt-Tastkappe-Serie-6425-834900013-Tastkappe-blank-transparent-Teilung-19-mm-Anthrazit-Passend-fuer-Serie-6425-mit-LED/?ref=reco.And occasionally I still use Letraset, though that really is a PITA.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2011, 08:19:07 am
content: Agreed. I used them for a couple of dual 1176 compressor units. They cost almost $1000 each to build, so adding a quality panel was not a hard decision.

author: frankee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 04:38:18 am
content: Hi Guys,I've designed and made hundreds of different overlays, for customers ranging from NASA to home hobby electronic builders. You might like to check some pictures atwww.protoplates.com.If you have any questions I would be happy to try and help.As someone above noted, there are a number of different solutions for creating professional looking front panels, and there definitely are applications in which overlays are not well suited, but overlays generally are good for prototyping and low volume applications because they're relatively inexpensive and rugged, and the really big big bonus ... they can ship in a day or two which is important since engineers and designers seem to put the front panel off until it almost becomes a panic situation. We also provide silk-screening, but the setup costs there are considerably more then for overlays. Saying that, we do have a customer that makes radar equipment, and who is happy to pay many hundreds of dollars for a single silk-screened prototype, but still, overlays are generally a better solution.Frank

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 05:59:40 am
content: Quote from: frankee on June 07, 2011, 04:38:18 amunfortunately this is how that URL resolvesForbiddenYou don't have permission to access / on this server.Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.Apache Server atwww.protoplates.comPort 80

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 06:04:01 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on June 07, 2011, 05:59:40 amIt works just fine for me.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 06:23:18 am
content: Quote from: flolic on June 07, 2011, 06:04:01 amThat's handy. Well it is for you.Whoever setup the server needs to have a look at how they are managing their security. Blocking casual browsing isn't a real clever move for sales/promotional pages.

author: elCap
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 08:16:51 am
content: Same for me.So first question would be, can you fix your webpage?Second one would be how much do you estimate the following overlay to cost: no cutouts, 10x8cm, 2 color, clear window for a LCD, made of strong plastic, matte finish and with adhesive. 10pcs.Third would be, do you offer international shipping?Quote from: Uncle Vernon on June 07, 2011, 05:59:40 am

author: Tony R
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 06:19:06 pm
content: I have had some made out of a vinyl sheets with a vinyl cutter. It can be a rather cheep way of doing it if you know the right people with the right equipment, any sign shop should be able to help you.

author: frankee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 07, 2011, 07:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: elCap on June 07, 2011, 08:16:51 amHi elCap,Try the website again (www.protoplates.com). Some time ago we were plagued by spam on our web form, and to defeat the scourge we blocked whole swaths of IP's from China where they were originating, and obviously (now) some other regions of Asia became unintentionally mixed-in. No offence intended, we were at the time just trying to be practical.If you like what you see I'll get you the other info that you requested.Frank

author: Tony R
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2011, 12:40:20 am
content: I was thinking about it later and started to look at buying a vinyl cutter amazon has one:http://www.amazon.com/USCutter-14-Vinyl-Cutter-Scrapbooking/dp/B003CV82D6it seems like a decent one for most applications.

author: Bella
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 02, 2012, 07:17:54 am
content: Quote from: elCap on June 03, 2011, 03:48:57 am

author: johnh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 03:25:39 am
content: I print the front panel onto A4 "Stick on label" and then cover with clear sticky film used to cover books.Make a mistake remove the clear film, then put the panel into water to soften the paper and rub/scrap the paper off.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 04:07:26 am
content: For one off panels at home - I design a graphic, (vector graphic, like inkscape), laser print it, laminate it and then cut out holes and stick/glue it to the panel.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 10:29:55 am
content: This video of mine covers the making of a custom graphic replacement for a micro ohmmeter. The photo film and cover film mentioned in the video are extremely good and produce results as good or better than original. It contains switch installation and performance data about the meter also so be patient, the front panel stuff is in there.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 01:29:45 pm
content: Something i learnt from the days of being a guitar pedal builder :http://www.kitrae.net/music/Custom_Pedal_Graphics.html

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 04:06:12 pm
content: Would "Inkjet Water Slide Decal Paper" work at all? perhaps you could spray lacquer over it when done to me it more permanent.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 04:54:18 pm
content: I have tried just about everything out there. I initially thought hot lamination would be the best setup for durability assuming the bond to the printed material would be optimum but it is not. The laminate is trying to stick to dried ink jet ink and it does not stick well at all. Also all of the photo, waterslide decal, vinyl, etc I tried the ink sits on top of the surface and has topography that the cover sheet cant conform to well. Plus most of those need an additional adhesive to bond them to your part.These guys sell all of the above but what I have selected below is definately the best combo for inkjet .The Papilo.com self adhesive photo filmhttp://www.papilio.com/inkjet%20photo%20high%20glossy%20film%20media.htmlactualy absorbs the ink into the surface but without bleeding. This gives a perfectly smooth surface for thecover film to adhere to. The permanent adhesive is very good and its strength increases with age the whole thing is only 3 mils thick. Then cover it with the clear matte laminate sheetshttp://www.texascraft.com/hps/catalog/Polyfocus_Matte_Laminate_Sheets_Matte_Clear_95_in_x_12_in_-p-17547.htmlThis stuff sticks to the photo film like crazy. Dont think you are going to reposition it, once it touches its history. it is very tough and can be cleaned off with IPA with no affect.

author: kaindub
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 12:51:16 am
content: Have a look at the Brother QL500 or QL550 label printersI have used one to create labels which look good and stick well.Maximum label size is 60mm (2.4in) by whatever length you need.For higher panels I just printed two labels and stuck them side by side.Only available in black printing, and with white, yellow or clear substrate.Its a thermal process and pretty hard wearingI use a grphic program to create the panel design. The printer accepts various common formats for the print (it prints in graphics mode not text mode)The printer is cheapHope this may helpRobert

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 04:18:44 am
content: Another recommendation for the Brother P-Touch labels. I only have the Brother PT-1230F ($45 on Amazon) printer (1/2" max) but with careful use of multiple labels side-by-side, I get decent results even for wider then 1/2". If the PT2730 can do a full graphics print from a PC (as it probably can), that is even a better bargain as it has a keyboard and can tale the tapes up to 24mm wide, and it is available on Amazon from $50.For larger boxes or panels, using individual small labels with the transparent backing, or, say, white labels on a white painted surface is still a very neat result for a one off project.The label adhesive is excellent quality, and the laminated labels are scratch resistant, solvent resistant, UV resistant (they will never fade) and the resolution of the graphics is not at all bad.For me, a Brother label printer with the PC interface is a must have item.Richard.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 04:49:32 am
content: I have an old label printer that someday will be the victim of a teardown, redundant because it has a faulty dot on the print head, and was scrapped as it could no longer do barcodes correctly. 30mm by however long thermal labels.I do have a dye sub photo printer that does nice prints, which are very durable on the special Sony paper it uses. Limited to photo size though, and the supplies are probably obsolete now.I have had a good results using a laminator, and if you place a sheet behind the printed label before laminating you can then get a label that has a paper backing after cutting the border off, which you can stick down with spray adhesive, as it works well with paper while the laminate repels most solvents and water.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 06:33:31 am
content: Shout out to Robrenz - thank you! That youboob vid was very help full and inspiring, you do nice work.One thing I have been wishing to make is a small custom water resistant keyboard made from 12mm tact switches with round buttons. I was planning to fit an aluminum panel over the switches with appropriate holes located to allow the buttons to protrude just flush or slightly proud of top surface and then cover them with my own symbol set and waterproof membrane. just wondering if those papilio sheets are flexible and durable enough to work for 5 to 10,000 actuations (key press) ? I don't have a color printer at the moment but I think I will buy one just for this purpose . Even if the keyboard idea doesn't workout just making my own front panels is a big win.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 06:42:47 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on August 09, 2012, 06:33:31 amSeconded!Now I just have to hunt down a source of products similar to the two robrenz used that doesn't charge $44.75 for shipping on top of the $28.99 for the sheets themselves.Does anyone know about similar products available in Europe?

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 10:22:01 am
content: I do such things in advertising companies (those that make banners, illuminated signs and billboards and so on, nameplates for office doors etc). They usually have high speed cutting/milling plotters. I generally use black plastic enclosures, so I order white panel with letters cut out. No problem in producing single quantities.

author: octabit
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 05, 2014, 10:56:04 pm
content: Here is another method for making DIY graphic overlays:http://blog.kevinthomasson.se/diy/professional-looking-front-panels