VNA recommendation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: Nikos A.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2022, 02:38:22 pm
content: Hi guys,We are looking to purchase a VNA for under 1000$.Our target RF applications are under 3GHz.Do you recommend any reliable VNA that you've used in the past?

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2022, 03:47:05 pm
content: I use the NanoVNA V2 for a lot of things.It might look like a toy but it is a perfectly usable VNA. Might not quite have the stability, dynamic range or source flexibility as a real boatanchor VNA, but is also a lot cheaper and smaller than one. I have compared it to a real HP VNA at work and it measured up pretty well

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2022, 04:06:10 pm
content: https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/4-nanovna-v2-plus4/I have this unit and it works well. I have no way to compare it to a pro unit.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2022, 08:59:28 pm
content: Just be aware that most of the cheaper VNAs are reflection/transmission only. They are not full two port VNAs (i.e. you need to manually reverse your DUT to measure S12/S22).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 02:27:51 am
content: Quote from: Nikos A. on January 28, 2022, 02:38:22 pmMissing one or two zeros?Even in the used market, I'm afraid you're not going to find much at that price. If you want to try one of the low cost VNAs, which I highly recommend for anyone just starting out, just keep in mind all the limitations. There's no input attenuators, output power setting, square wave drive, poor dynamic range .... But they are very inexpensive and a lot of fun. They are very low risk IMO.***We can add an external transfer relay, step attenuators, bias Ts and even a PC to the mix.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 11:56:09 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on January 28, 2022, 08:59:28 pmYep this is usually the case, but then again how often does one even need to measure the reverse transmission parameter? Most of the time just a single port is used (antennas, input matching, parasitic mesurements etc..) and most of the two port stuff you want to measure are things that don't care about direction (like cables) or things that are designed to work in one direction (like amplifiers or some filters)You can still flip the device around if needed. It's not like the phase repeatability matters that much with a 100$ VNA nor do you need fancy expensive connectors that you might be scared of wearing out. Most of the time you won't be using a proper calibrated (with correction data) open short load standard anyway since such a standard can cost 10 times as much as such a cheap VNA.You can do a lot with these tiny cheap VNAs, as long as you are aware of its limitations.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 03:42:52 pm
content: With a budget of just $1000 you might be able to buy an old 3GHz HP 8753A TR VNA. If you could stretch to $1500 you might be able to buy something like a full two port 8753C with unknown history. Reliability would always be an issue with something this old. It might already be faulty on the day it gets delivered or it might only work for a month or it might work for 5 years without any problems.A lot depends on what you want to do with the VNA and what performance level is acceptable. The V2 nanovnas look to be quite capable but the big disappointment here is that there are no decent reviews online for these low cost VNAs. There's no shortage of enthusiastic reviewers but they don't really test the limits of the VNA.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 04:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on January 29, 2022, 11:56:09 amThe OP sounds like a business possibly, and they didn't elaborate further so we don't know what their requirements are.joeqsmith above pointed out another serious limitation of the cheap VNAs: square wave drive. This may work fine for most passive devices, but it can cause issues with active device characterization. Plus, if a DUT isn't reciprocal (e.g. a limiter), you may want to know what it looks like from both ends."Real" VNAs are more than just being able to do full 2 port S parameters, there's also more control over the stimulus (drive level, step attenuators, DC bias tee for powering amplifiers under test), better repeatability, etc. If a TR test set is sufficient for the OP's needs, that's fine, but in absence of more info about what THEY need out of their VNA, we can only brain dump....

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 04:08:58 pm
content: Toys are just that - toys. None of those toy VNA creators bothered to pull an old HP VNA manual to see what should be involved in VNA specification and characterization.@OP: as was said, a used 8753 series HP VNA would be your best bet "if" you are serious and do not mind boat anchor device size and weight. If you just want to learn and not measure, go with watever handheld gadget from Aliexpress.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 06:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on January 29, 2022, 03:42:52 pmYou can always show us but as you stated, I think I already know how this story ends.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 06:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 29, 2022, 06:29:38 pmYour attempt to demonstrate finger torque vs a torque tool was probably your funniest fail for me. Maybe you should stick to blowing things up

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 07:15:42 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on January 29, 2022, 06:41:01 pmIts out of character for you but I'm glad to hear you found some humor.This one using a much larger wrench to snap a few was pretty good.But I had fun playing with the printed wrenches as well.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 07:39:44 pm
content: Be aware that if you go for a 8753C, that if you want a full S-parameter test setup, it's a separate module. ( 85046A for up to 3 Ghz or 85047A for 6Ghz )An upgrade from the C version is the 8753ES but you won't find a working one for under $1000. ( keep a keen eye on the options installed! )

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 08:49:24 pm
content: Normally I'd suggest trying to buy an old ex-rental analyser from a rental company. Every so often they sell off the older stock at low prices. The other option would be to try and attend a few local auctions of test gear. I've bought some nice test gear using these methods at quite low prices. However, I'm not sure how realistic this would be in Cyprus.If I wanted to buy a decent VNA on a low(ish) budget I'd try and buy a HP 8753D but this is likely to cost $2500. If I only had less than $1000 to spend I'd probably buy a 3GHz nanovna V2 for <$200 and then start saving for the HP 8753D.

author: rfclown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2022, 10:44:39 pm
content: I can't recommend anything under $1000. I use (and recommend) used HP8753s, but they aren't that cheap, and they are huge. A 3.5mm cal kit in good condition might cost $1000 used. I started with a 8753B that I paid $1800 for without a test set (I used couplers). Then I bought a test set. Sold B and upgraded to 8753C... etc... now I have a 8753D with test set. All bought on eBay, but nothing was cheap. But these are solid VNAs. They are what I used at my job before being laid off in 2009, and what I decided to buy when I started contracting. I have a nano S-A-A V2 that I got out of curiosity, but I don't use it since I have my HPs. It is amazing for what it is, but it's not the same. In 2018 I bought a Copper Mountain R60 (single port USB VNA) for a company I was working for to test antenna assemblies (TDA function came with it), but I think we paid $3k for that. Seems like there's the $100 nano kind of thing, or the several thousand dollar thing. Not really anything in between.

author: 3isenhorn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2022, 09:53:51 am
content: Hi,Depending on your use case and budget, you might have to consider alternatives.Do you really need the Vector capability? Do you need the full two-port capability?Maybe a spectrum analyser with tracking generator is the right choice? Maybe some of these devices are even already available?In general, I think it's hard to get a complete VNA setup for under $1000, as that would include a CalKit for me.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2022, 09:32:26 pm
content: I have a nanovna2 which I spent less than $100 for, on tindle, total. I also have a nice aftermarket case for it. It can work up to 4.4 GHz with some peaks between 3 and 4.4 Ghz. Up to 3 Ghz is what its rated for. I also have a cal kit for it. Which are simple SMA components.It gets a lot of use. For the stuff I do it works great.

author: chrisl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 01:19:07 am
content: Look for an used Agilent 8714ES. Will cost more than $1000 but you can find a deal time to time that will be near $1k.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 01:33:45 am
content: Quote from: chrisl on January 31, 2022, 01:19:07 amThis is an excellent choice. You can easily do a color LCD upgrade or connect an external LCD monitor if the green screen bothers you. I have seen this go for great prices over the years. Very under appreciated.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 08:06:55 am
content: Quote from: Nikos A. on January 28, 2022, 02:38:22 pm~60% over your budget:SSA3021X+ and hack it to a SVA1032X ...... a 3.2 GHz SAandVNA.

author: Nikos A.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 09:08:14 am
content: Thank you for your replies guys!! Really appreciate it!!A friend of mine measured the S11 parameter of a 6dBi antenna manufactured by Kerlink using the NanoVNA SAA-2N V2.2https://www.amazon.de/Converter-50KHz-3GHz-Measuring-Parameters-Standwave/dp/B099S5NNMNFor this test, the ACCIOT-KAN01 (868MHz) antenna was used. This antenna is used for the LoRa gateways in the EU. This is the datasheet.chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0447%2F5633%2F6807%2Ffiles%2FDatasheet-6dbi-ACCIOT-KAN01-ACCIOT-KAN02-v1-0tmzmxMR5JTmBJ.pdf%3Fv%3D1615569419&clen=773192&chunk=trueThis test shows that the antenna is more efficient on 853MHz instead of 868MHz.Probably the antenna is not well designed by the manufacturer - hard to believe since this is a well-established and known manufacturer.Could this low-cost VNA make such inaccurate measurements?Also, the state of calibration of this VNA is unknown - I do not know if they even calibrate such a low-budget equipment

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 11:09:02 am
content: The return loss of 15dB is a VSWR of 1.4 while a 10dB return loss is a VSWR of 1.9 so it is a reasonably good antenna at both of those frequencies.Antennas are also affected by proximity to other things, so the actual optimal frequency can shift about somewhat. So how you place your antenna might affect your mesurement and once the antenna is installed it might have a different response again. For that reason you typically don't aim to tune an antenna for a super super good return loss, that tune will be thrown off by antenna installation anyway, so you often don't really aim for any VSWR bellow 1.5, anything under 2 is also pretty decent, above about 3 is a bad antenna.Tho it depends on application, a little wifi module won't care about a little reflected power. But a 100kW radio transmitter feeding a giant antenna on top of a radio mast will end up having many kW bounced back if the VSWR is not really really good. Since it's on top of a giant mast you don't have to worry about things getting close to it to detune it and you can afford to have some extra tuning elements that get adjusted for best possible VSWRSo for just a LORA antenna the accuracy of a NanoVNA is plenty good.EDIT:Also once you have a VNA you can easily DIY a lot of antenna types from just wire and RF connectors you have laying around. That way you can make an antenna that is built to your needs and tune it to be as precise as you want it to be. Lots of antenna designs out there with there own pros and cons (some are small, some are wideband, some are narrowband, some are insensitive to detuning, some are very directional, some are very omnidirectional.. etc)

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 05:40:54 pm
content: All antennas that are supposed to be soldered permanently to pieces of electronics are specified under certain conditions, say what size ground plane they have. Measurements of such antennas are useless in other contexts.For example, a ceramic GPS antenna produced by Taoglas may be intended for mounting in the center of a piece of PCB and resonate at the right frequency when it is. But if its mounted at the end of a device where it doesn't have a ground plane not only wont it resonate at the right frequency, which means that it wont get the polarization right as its a highly optimized design that shrinks the size of a patch antenna and depends on all sorts of factors relating to whats around it. Off tune it will also likely function worse than a (spiral) piece of wire cut to the correct frequency and diameter and also wont have the proper polarization meaning rejection of signals that are not GPS. its likely.Making the significant extra expenditure on a "real" GPS antennauseless. Installed badly, you fancy, small ceramic antenna may be less than useless. Buying a commercial antenna doesn't guarantee you anything except spending the money. Understand the users responsibility is to provide the antenna with the right environment so it can work.Make sure you interact in a meaningful way with the manufacturer to get the support you are paying for by buying their product. Thats absolutely essential if ceramic materials are involved. Because that tells you its a system, with missing parts, besides the antenna itself.A good VNA can give youmuchof the information you will need to do this properlybut not all of it. The other half is YOU. You need some knowledge of how RF behaves and some common sense, and some trial and error to get it consistently right. As you see, now you can spend a lot less. But if you get a functional VNA that is just the beginning of a learning journey. Its going to be a fairly similar journey no matter how much you spend on a VNA, if it is a VNA. Best that it be an inexpensive journey if you are a beginner. Maybe later on when you really NEED a better one for some specific reason and your expenditure is likely to be a needed one then spend more on one then.A plastic case may be better in terms of accuracy.The best advice I can give you is call them (the antenna manufacturer) on the phone and have a discussion with your manufacturers support person, and if you can send them a picture of your proposed usage of their antennain situ, as it were. I would ask them what their antenna gives you that a monopole doesnt. There is a good chance that its simply a size reduction. It may have lower gain than a monopole.Ask them tosellyou their antenna. (Justify the expense to you). Just because a family of devices claims long range, doesn't mean that their devices actually possess the ability to traverse that long range.Given the nature of VHF and UHF, it may actually be impossible for the signals to go very far if the devices at the two ends of the link are no more than a meter or two above the ground.Speak to them. Thats almost a must-do if real money is about to be spent. Better safe than sorry.

author: Joel_Dunsmore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2022, 08:46:16 pm
content: Quote from: Nikos A. on January 31, 2022, 09:08:14 amA couple things about measuring dips in return loss of antennas:The dip shows the point where the antenna impedance matches the calibration load impedance (plus any cable flexure changes) of the VNA. I had one customer swear the crystal oscillators in his 8714's were drifting because the dip in his antenna return loss was moving in freq. We had to ship an SA to him so he could measure each one and see they were all exactly in spec (they never really drift). The cause was a poor load, a drifty cable, and the fact that the return loss dip does NOT say where the antenna is tuned in frequency, only where it is tuned to match the reflection impedance. To test the real frequency you need to do an OTA transmission test.And, as has been mentioned, the ground plane configuration makes an absolutely huge difference in how the impedance appears at the VNA.oh: and be sure to discharge (ground) your feedline from the antenna before connecting to the VNA; it's very easy to build up a large charge.Oh: and if you are near an airport or the coast, watch out that the radar doesn't sweep by your antenna and blow up the front end of the VNA (another long story about the French company which did that).

author: rfclown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2022, 02:15:24 pm
content: Dr. Joel, I had never seen the HP8714ES mentioned in this thread. I'm most familiar with the HP8753 (used A-E). What's different with the 8714?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2022, 07:20:12 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/antenna-project-log/That ^ got me hooked on VNA’s.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2022, 10:57:12 pm
content: Here is an Agilent network analyzer selection guide that gives some overview of the different models.

author: Joel_Dunsmore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 02:21:59 am
content: Quote from: rfclown on February 01, 2022, 02:15:24 pmThe 8711 was a version of very low cost VNAs (scalar) with frequency up to 1.3 GHz, the 8712 was a vector version. Later we came out with an 8713/8714 which were 3 GHz versions. These were designed for cable TV manufacturing applications. And the 3 GHz were used (in the hundreds and thousands) for tuning filters for cell phones ( before SAW filter technology was common, all the cellphones used hand-tuned filters which required thousands of filter-tuners; SAW filter technology turned that job into the same class as buggy-whip wrappers). The were the first VNAs over 1 GHz to use only PCB technology, which is how the cost was kept down.

author: ssturges
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 05:08:21 am
content: LIBREVNA 100KHZ - 6 GHZ USB based full 2 port VNAAvailable on Amazon. A bit cheaper on AliexpressI just got one but I have not unboxed it yet. A bit of info out there on it.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 06:09:42 am
content: Quote from: ssturges on February 02, 2022, 05:08:21 amThis thing looks pretty nice. Wouldn't mind hearing how good this actually is.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 01:14:18 pm
content: The LibreVNA may offer a few benefits, including potentially lower noise and wider dynamic range butThe software interface is not documented and as far as I know, requires you to interface with their software100kHz lower rangeAnnouncement of new hardware coupled with the higher price tagConcerns with hardware design (early posts of temperature problems)I've not been following it for some time now and most of my concerns may have been addressed. I would also be interested in seeing a review.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 04:15:10 pm
content: A major challenge of network analyzers for many of us is - they're complicated. Even less expensive devices have abilities that may not be clear. Most hobbyists and even some professional engineers have no one to mentor us on the capabilities of and use of complex instruments. Of course, there are many resources available on-line today - so many that it can be overwhelming.One good introduction is from the HP-A-K back to basics series. They have presented these at various seminars around the country through the years, so many versions can be found on-line.Most versions contain only the presentation slides but I like the 2005 version because it has the presenter's notes.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 08:26:53 pm
content: With an instrument like a VNA the possibilities for doing new things, and really taking advantage of it are endless.And then making videos and making money from them.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 09:03:17 pm
content: My very first VNA was the 3GHz HP 8714B. I bought this many years ago as an unloved ex-rental and it came with a lot of software and hardware options including an external switching test set and remote detector probes. I still have it here somewhere but I bought a nicer VNA about 6 years ago and I just keep the 8714B as a spare.It is only a TR VNA but I would recommend this model even today if the price is right. The one I have has the high power option and the wide range attenuator and the source power goes up to about +20dBm. For measuring antennas and feedlines and RF filters it should perform very well. I'm not sure what they are worth these days but the later 8714ES has a built in test set and this makes it a lot more desirable.One of the main limitations with the HP 8714B TR VNA was the relatively poor port 2 match up towards the top end of the 3GHz range. I often used an attenuator here to improve things. If you can negotiate the price right down then maybe consider the cheaper HP 8714B version. It is only a TR VNA but it might be able to do all that you want from a VNA.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 10:14:10 pm
content: Quote from: Grandchuck on January 28, 2022, 04:06:10 pmI have the previous model the nanovna2.2 with the smaller screen. I have a 3d printed case for it. Its been a great tool to have. I really love it.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 06:35:36 am
content: The thing with these tiny cheap VNAs is that it makes it easy to bring VNA to the work rather than bringing the work to the VNA (since nobody wants to lug around that giant heavy boatanchor of a VNA). So for example you can use one to quickly measure an installed antenna on site including all the feed cabling going to it.So this NanoVNA is sort of like a handheld DMM. It might not have the performance of its big heavy bench counterpart, but it has enough performance to get the job done while being small enough to fit in a pocket. I have multiple bench DMMs and yet my handheld DMMs still see plenty of use for when its more convenient and the extra performance is not required.It's a similar story for the small portable oscilloscopes (skip the cheap tiny toys tho). They are always worse than a real scope, often have all touchscreen controls etc... but at the same time you can pull it out of a bag anywhere, turn it on and start using it.

author: Nikos A.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 01:43:27 pm
content: I found this VNA.https://www.megiq.com/products/vna-0440Also for almost the same price (3000€) I found this from Siglenthttps://www.siglent.eu/product/1137246/siglent-sva1032x-3-2ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzerWhat is your opinion? Is this value for money?

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 03:35:10 pm
content: The frequency range of the megiq is from 400 to 4000 MHz so if you never envision needing frequency coverage below 400 MHz and the other specs meet your requirements, it might be a good choice.Berni is exactly right: "So this NanoVNA is sort of like a handheld DMM. It might not have the performance of its big heavy bench counterpart, but it has enough performance to get the job done while being small enough to fit in a pocket. I have multiple bench DMMs and yet my handheld DMMs still see plenty of use for when its more convenient and the extra performance is not required."

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 03:41:49 pm
content: Also note that the price of that megiq equates to well over 3000 USD - considerably beyond your stated $1000 budget.I recently bought a R&S ZVB-8 with time domain for less than $4000 so there is no way I would consider that megiq a bargain.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 08:04:38 pm
content: Regarding the Siglent unit, tautech already recommended that for your consideration.It appears that you have increased your budget. I strongly recommend that you give serious consideration to your current applications, any possible future uses, and how all that interacts with analyzer specifications. Then make yourself a comparison matrix that lists your important requirements and desires vs capabilities of units under consideration. Download the datasheets, brochures, and operating manuals for every unit under consideration and study them thoroughly.Simple bandpass applications may be well served by most choices, but if you need serious dynamic range for tuning filters, low cost units may come up way short. If you need power sweep - for example - for testing amplifier compression, some analyzers won't do it at all, others might have 15 dB range, still others 50 dB or more.You want to avoid buyer's remorse. Look at the attached screen shot of a VNA tuning a duplex filter. The rejection notch is 100 dB deep and the analyzer has dynamic range to spare - there isn't even any noise on the trace at the notch minimum.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 08:53:14 am
content: Quote from: Nikos A. on February 03, 2022, 01:43:27 pmSVA1032X is one of my fav instruments however it is only a single port VNA therefore for S12 and S22 measurements the DUT needs be flipped to get the reversed stimulus measurements.Of course they are a good SA too with quite reasonable input protection but you need study datasheets to ensure its specs will meet your requirements.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 01:37:20 pm
content: Quote from: xmo on February 02, 2022, 04:15:10 pmanything that you "dont need" will be complicated, no matter how simple it is even such as stitching clothes or fishing at the sea. we started with simple thing that we "do need" such as antenna tuning, there was a time when VSWR meter is the recommended one and very affordable device, but it can only shows one thing... fast forward now we can have a cheap portable VNA to do the same job... and then later we figured that a VNA can do much much more, anything that we think we will need, or going to need, we study more slowly, and we gained knowledge. the rest of capabilities, and the many ways of rigging up for various purposes, we ignore. we only use, study and learn what we need.Quote from: Berni on February 02, 2022, 06:09:42 amit caught my eyes earlier before i made a purchase on LiteVNA, because i need some features up to 6GHz version of (compatible) my NanoVNA V2, thats not available in my Deepace KC901V VNA (reviewed by Shariar few years ago before the name "NanoVNA" even exist), i wonder why you still want one that is stuck near a PC desktop, ie missing LCD screen for portabilitiness? when you can have one at same or cheaper price with LCD and built in battery? and recently forum member dislord even further squeeze the last bit of harmonics trick to extend the range of LiteVNA to 9GHz, i just simply was not expecting it even the slightest bit in my brain cell, i never thought its possible, i thought, thats it! 6GHz is the best bang per buck i can get today or for few years to come.. you dont find a 9GHz VNA anywhere near $1K, even you step up a bit to a Deepace brand.. their 6GHz KC901V is still $2K and 10GHz KC901M is $2.5K, above than this afaik we dont have anything in between, you have to jump really up to Keysight or R&S et al, i'm not sure if Siglent has their 6-10GHz version.Nano/Lite VNA is imho an ideal and A+++ 4 flat success proof of university master project of "build a cheaper alternative of expensive XXX device" thesis. even my Deepace KC901V has lots to be desired, missing something compared to my Nano/Lite/VNA-QT SW, performance is not really great as well, not recommended by Dr Kirkby, now i understand why when playing with Nano/Lite/QT... except still, my KC901V still has something not available in Nano/Lite, ie more polished and more usable/practical GUI such as vertical LogScale impedance Z plot (we can see 0 to Inf ohm impedance) in one screen, so i think KC901V is not fully obsolete yet, but for Deepace company, i think they are dead meat with the emergence of LiteVNA...to OP unfortunately, with your $1K budget, you have to accept that what you are looking for is "toy" grade of Nano/Libre/Lite/Deepace VNA etc et al as someone termed it. quality brand new cal kit alone is already more than that cost. my Kirkby budget cal kit is half that, let alone the nice to touch Gore cables and attenuators collections. if you think you can get by with cheaper $10 china cal kit and coax cables, then you are fooling yourself around if what you want to do is beyond antenna tuning/vswr/return loss. before i bought KC901V 5 years ago, i waited in ebay for about a year for the used HP boat anchor VNA price to go down below $2K, there was no luck, and mostly they are missing the s-parm module that need to be hunted separately. i was really desperate there seemed to be no hope, so i bite the bullet on Deepace brand, on loan money for $2K. so if someone mourns about toyish or lowish grade of $100+ Nano/Lite, they are just amusement to me. if you complain, please give other alternative if not 5-6 digits price Keysight or R&S?edit: maybe your argurment is that Libre is full 2-port. but are you really sure thats what you want? have you figured that by flipping DUT on 1-1/2 port VNA to get S22/S12 have limitation thats crippling you ability to measure? arent you going to miss the fun of measuring rf/antenna on the field? OwO mentioned that he's on progress to build a full 2-port NanoVNA V3 6GHz with better than -100dB noise, this will be an interesting wait, but i dont desperate so badly since i already have LiteVNA to do a job that i need. if i need full s-parm characterization, i'll wait for OwO. fwiw..

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 05:17:14 pm
content: "anything that you "don't need" will be complicated"---------------As a certifiable 'Test Equipment Addict' I am well aware of this and the urge to acquire new instruments to learn things and to satisfy curiosity.I suspect that the vast majority of the low cost VNA's are bought for just that purpose - to satisfy curiosity. After being played with a few times, most of them will spend the rest of their lives in a drawer. A few will come out occasionally to look at an antenna., the rest - not so often.That's all well and good. I suppose many of us have instruments that mostly live in a drawer, but in Nikos case - a more recent post shows that he is considering units that cost north of 3000 USD.That's pretty serious money to satisfy curiosity - which suggests there is a real or perceived 'need' in the equation. That's why I recommended a thorough assessment and a comparison to capabilities of instruments under consideration.Take that image I posted. That's a Tx-Rx 28-70-02A duplexer. One example of a very common type of filter used in commercial, public safety, and amateur radio repeater systems. If an application like that is on your list - you want to be able to accomplish that task.Looking at their specs - I just don't think you're going to get that kind of result from a nano, pico, megiq, or Siglent SVA1032X. Siglent does make a unit that will do that - the SNA5000A series - but those are way more expensive.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 08:05:32 am
content: W2aew made a video on tuning a diplexer or whatever rf notch filter for a friend using nano, so i guess its a capable device for the business.. $100 device in a drawer is better than $10k device collecting dust, ymmv.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 03:56:29 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 05, 2022, 08:05:32 amI looked it up and found two videos (linked below). I did not watch them except for the very end were he provides a conclusion. Both suggest a better VNA is required.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 08:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 05, 2022, 03:56:29 pmcorrect, both w2aew and xmo in earlier post above demonstrated the problem of noise floor where -100dB or better is the good one to see how deep is deep of the notch, except... which VNA as suggestion? can you (i mean OP or whoever) afford the USB based Tek TTR506? either that or you wait for OwO... we dont have any other better promise than OwO's... whether he can fullfill that is another story. afa tuning frequencies is concerned, the nano is spot on with Tek VNA in the video, ymmv.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 11:20:40 pm
content: As w2aew points out, the nano is an incredible bargain. It does so many things and lets a lot of radio enthusiasts explore and analyze in ways they could never afford until now.That does nothing to alter the recommendation to do a thorough needs assessment and a comparison to capabilities of instruments under consideration before spending anything - especially for someone with a more serious than nano budget - like 1000 USD or more than 3000 USD. That buyer must want some high performance capabilities. It would be a shame to not get what you need but could have had by more careful shopping.If you do spend serious money and some dust accumulates because you don't happen to use it every day - that's what swiffers are for.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 08:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: Nikos A. on February 03, 2022, 01:43:27 pmThe Megiq VNA looks like it only works down to 400MHz which seems a bit odd.The Siglent SVA1032x SA/VNA looks like a nice spectrum analyser but the VNA functionality looks to be fairly restrictive with 10kHz RBW and limited dynamic range. I'm basing this on a quick skim through the datasheet. I wouldn't consider this to be a serious attempt by Siglent at manufacturing a VNA. Maybe I'm misreading the datasheet but the VNA specifications look poor to me.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 10:29:30 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 06, 2022, 08:21:08 pmCorrect however the SVA range are useful instruments being both a SA and single port VNA.The new SNA5000A OTOH are in a different class being 2 and 4 port VNA's and pricing in a whole different class to match.We have a 4.5 GHz 4 port model arriving in March.Probably outside my capabilities to push the thing to any degree however it will be spending time with member hendorog where he'll put it against some of his legacy VNA's to see how it fares.Stay tuned.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sna5000x-two-and-four-port-vnas-coming/

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 11:41:28 pm
content: Interesting, thanks! Looking at the specs and prices of the Siglent 2 and 4 port models you would be competing with a used (12-15 year old?) 2 port E5071C or a used (18-20 year old?) 4 port E5071B VNA from Agilent. I think that's what a prospective buyer would be considering as an alternative. The E5071B VNAs are getting really old now with some reliability issues but they do work well as a general purpose VNA and they are very versatile. The E5071C is about to be discontinued but it is a really nice VNA even today.I tried to find a review of the low cost Siglent SVA1032X VNA and this seemed to be the only one on youtube.At 34:29 an attempt was made to measure the input return loss of a Minicircuits ZKL-2R7 amplifier. The response on the Siglent VNA doesn't look right if compared to the Minicircuits datasheet. I don't think the ripple should be there and the measured return loss appears to be worse than it should be at lower frequencies. If the VNA meets its 40dB directivity then the VSWR plot ought to look better than the response showed in the video. I'm not sure if this is operator error or the limits of the VNA. Normally, if 40dB directivity is achieved then the displayed return loss should be a lot closer to the datasheet graphs here that show a fairly smooth VSWR response vs frequency:https://www.minicircuits.com/pages/s-params/ZKL-2R7+_GRAPHS.pdfI'm not sure but the datasheet implies the Siglent SVA3012X VNA power is fixed at -5dBm so maybe the operator is also overdriving the amplifier in the demo video as the ZKL-2R7 has 24dB gain and output P1dB of about +17dBm. From what I can see the VNA doesn't display the source power level so it's unclear what the source power is set to. Hopefully it has been set to something like -20dBm or lower.At 34:51 in the video the smith chart response just doesn't look right for this type of amplifier. The numerous squiggles in the response suggest there could be a calibration issue. I doubt the VNA could introduce this unless there are limitations with the calibration options. It would be nice to see a repeat measurement to see the calibration process.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 11:58:07 pm
content: tautech wrote: "...and pricing in a whole different class to match."You can say that again!

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 01:22:37 am
content: QuoteHave you tried sticking an attenuator on the VNA (Other end open) and doing a sweep at lower frequencies? Return loss should be 2x the attenuator loss.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 01:35:17 am
content: Quote from: Kim Christensen on February 07, 2022, 01:22:37 amHi, it's not me doing the measurement, it was someone else doing a review of the VNA on youtube a couple of years ago. I've never used a Siglent VNA. To me the return loss plot looks wrong and so does the smith chart. I'm not sure if an incorrect cal kit definition was used during the calibration or if the VNA itself has a problem.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 07:17:41 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2022, 01:35:17 amHad a hunt back through to Oct 2019 when Shahriar (TSP) did that YT review and it seems a total of five SVA1032X firmware updates have been released since no doubt addressing several issues seen since release.Even the previous to last release had issues in how User Cal was performed.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 01:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 06, 2022, 10:29:30 pm

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 05:12:44 pm
content: In case the big dogs aren't paying attention, that VNA from Siglent is a 'shot across the bow'. Fair warning that their cash cow is going to be facing real competition from here on.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 08:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: xmo on February 07, 2022, 05:12:44 pmCertainly, providing it's not too buggy at release when someone like Shahriar gets their hands on one.I expect it to undergo SW improvements like the SVA range has where in Shahriar's vid his Smith chart showed a interpolation error in the trace that was fixed in early FW but they can still be forced to show similar if insufficient points are selected by the user. Default is 201 points and the previous max was 751 as shown in Shahriar's vid however this has been pushed way out to 10k points with the latest firmware versions.SVA have been reasonably popular however it's a shame they used the old SSA case with it's single USB A port as although it has a touch display using it with a mouse is more preferable to many robbing the ease to grab screenshots to USB without needing a USB hub.4 USB ports on the SNA5000A fixes that !

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 09:25:56 pm
content: QuoteIt still could prove to be frustrating for Siglent if they want to achieve large volume sales. If I go back 10-15 years at work I can remember the frustration of the Anritsu reps who (every year) tried to sell us their test gear at reduced prices just so they could get a foot in the door. They didn't succeed and pretty much all the test gear is still Keysight or Tektronix or R&S. However, I have seen a Rigol DSA-815 spectrum analyser at work and I think this was used as a cheap/disposable analyser for training/survey work. It might even belong to a member of staff.Even if the Siglent VNAs perform as good as the Agilent VNAs of 15-20 years ago I think that many companies will still rather buy a used Agilent/Keysight VNA than a new Siglent VNA. It's part of the corporate mindset. The Anritsu reps experienced the same thing. They tried all sorts of tricks, even giving away decent (free) VNA cal kits if we would accept any of their RF test gear just for a 60 day demo.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 10:36:01 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2022, 09:25:56 pmQuite agree however the TE landscape is rapidly changing where zeros have been stripped from pricing that A brands want for their gear.Around a year ago we were asked to quote for some basic equipment for NZ's best Cal lab where they had a substantial budget to update lots of their gear.The senior tech there we've known for some years said they'd already ordered a new 26 GHz KS SA that was to cost them 1/4 of a million NZD !A month or 2 later I find this is in development at Siglent:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa5000a-spectrum-analyzers-coming/I'll eat my hat if when it's released it's more than 1/3 of the price of the KS.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 10:58:04 pm
content: Yes, the times are certainly changing... at work there has been a significant shift away from purchasing test gear and at least half of the test gear is now rented. This is a fairly significant experiment for the company and I'm not sure how typical this approach is in 2022.It's not unusual to get a repair quote from Keysight for £15k just to repair a 15 year old Agilent spectrum analyser and the cost of maintaining and calibrating the older test gear is part of the reason there has been this shift away from owning expensive test gear. A lot of it ends up rotting on a shelf once it is more than about 10-15 years old and it becomes a money pit to maintain it all. Where I work, it is often a case of renting a spectrum analyser or a sig gen for 1-3 months at a time. The old stuff is gradually migrating to the skip as each item eventually develops a niggly fault or fails to pass the annual calibration.I'd expect that universities and research agencies could swap across to Siglent if you make the performance/price ratio attractive enough. Where I work it will always be Keysight, Tek or R&S and this decision is made up at a high level.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 11:59:30 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2022, 10:58:04 pmThat's happening to some degree already.....at least for us.QuoteYes without the historical relationships between HPAK and Rigol and LeCroy and Siglent these up and coming competitors would still be C brands along with some of the other rubbish out there and be of zero challenge to the big boys.Now they are making significant technological advances and putting gear in the hands of techs and hobbyists at prices we only dreamt about just a decade ago and at sufficient numbers to fund further development the next 20 years will be staggering to see where it all ends up unless the A brands make significant investment to holdoff the upward march of the leading Chinese brands.There's no real indication the A brands give a damn and appear to imagine their hard won reputations will carry the day. How long will that last ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 10:51:14 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 07, 2022, 10:36:01 pmmaybe you should aim at new emerging small companies. doing promotion at under or post graduate etc, giving free education etc. when new companies can perform just as well as big stubborn companies, then the big companies may start to rethink their common sense about certain brands. ymmv.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 10:57:20 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 06, 2022, 11:41:28 pmJust had a chance to get mine out and check.In VNA mode you can access the Port 1 output level by pressing the TG button on the front panel where you have -20 to 0dB available. -5dB is default.However you make a good point that the stimulus level is not plainly visible whereas for some uses it certainly should be. New feature request.......

author: Marcel G
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 01:04:00 pm
content: You should take a look at an Agilent E5062A.This device is now affordable (no ebay) if you can live with Windows 2000.The device is started you don,t really have to worry about it anymore.The only real drawback I think is that it not the best in trace noise, only 1 USB on the front and the image quality could be a bit better.Have had sereral devices side by side also a lot more expensive but for me it just started to get fun with either an N9923A Fieldfox or an E5062A.Older and other brands disappointed me.What i,m actually waiting for someone to really test the Siglent VNA.The demo videos on internet don,t tell me enough to buy a Siglent VNA (up to 4.5 GHz and a two ports version).For this low price it is almost impossible to imagine that they can put this on the market.Marcel