Basic building block components? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: RickieSalad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 11:39:15 am
content: Hey allI have a newbie question regarding the more basic "building block" type components. I've had fun exploring Arduino, writing a little code and making LED's flash and stuff. What I'd really like to do is better understand the more basic components and how they interact with each other.At the end of the month I'm going to be starting a contract job outside the country. With this job I'll have TONS of downtime to explore a hobby. So I'd like to use that time to learn about these components. I'd like to maybe build small 3 or 4 component circuits that'll help me understand the basics. Then I can do all the associated math on paper and see if it matches, or atleast comes reasonably close to what happens when I build the actual circuit.I've got a nice selection of resistors, caps and inductors to play with. I've got some diodes and a few BJT type transistors. I was thinking of maybe adding a couple different FET type transistors in there? MOSFETs? JFETs? I want to get a couple op-amps too. What other basic components can you guys think of that I could play with? Instead of just having a basic understanding of some of these components like I do now, I'd really love to truly understand exactly how they all work.Any ideas?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 11:51:04 am
content: You can't go wrong with the 555 timer.Heaps of simple circuits for it.Good datasheets and good understanding of RC to be had.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 11:57:25 am
content: Op amps are fun! LEDs, buttons, a relay or two, switches...

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 04:17:07 pm
content: If you're in the US, Amazon has some "Joe Knows" kits for resistors, capacitors, and solid state devices (transistors, leds, etc) that will give you a good assortment of parts for a modest investment. They are nicely organized and compact. Amazon also sells 22ga solid core wire kits, six colors IIRC that are incredibly handy for breadboarding and building proto boards.As for other parts, you might want to order some of these from Mouser, Digikey, or other good distributor (going outside of disty can be cheaper, but you'll have no idea of what you'll get):LM317 Voltage regulatorTrimpots (Amazon has a grab bag kit of various values that is reasonably priced. eBay has other options, but takes much longer to arrive)0.1 uF and 1.0 uF electrolytic caps for basic decouplingLM393 Comparator (the 741 can be used as a comparator, but the 393 is a better choice, and cheap)LM741 OpAmp (not the best, but a classic)555 Timers (as mentioned)Common decade resistors in "bulk" (100-300 ea): 100, 1k, 10k, 100k [I tend to go through a lot of 1Ks, the "Joe Knows" kits give you 10 ea of the E96 series IIRC]1N400X (X is 1 to 7) diodes in bulk (I stock the 1N4007 just for the current capacity, but 4001s are just as good for playing around)2N3904 NPN transistor (good to 100mA)2N3906 PNP transistor (good to 100 mA)2N2222A NPN transistor (will switch up to 1/2A)For MOSFETS, the RFD3055LE is cheap and has decent characteristics. I also stock the FQP27P06 (P-Chan) and FQP30N06L (N-Chan) simply because they will switch anything that I'm interested in, reasonably priced, and have a low Rdson. [The 'duino folks like the IRF510 and IRF520, but I'm not sure why since they are expensive and the characteristics don't look all that great, but I studied Power engineering, so I could be missing something. ]

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 04:33:16 pm
content: Agree with all of the above, plus look at the Sticky post at the top of this forum "Electronics primers, course material and books"For the Arduino you could also buy one of these cheap ebay sensor board kits, should keep you occupied for hours !

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 04:53:02 pm
content: One thing you are missing is signal sources and meters.While you could go the whole hog and get a Digilent Analog Discovery (i.e. an oscilloscope plus a waveform generator), you could do a lot with a few potentiometers, photodiodes, plus a multimeter. They also have complete component kits and learning materials.Seehttp://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY

author: RickieSalad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 05:12:22 am
content: Thanks for the info everyone.I will have access to scopes and meters while I'm there. I'm also planning on taking a cheapie signal generator with me. So I'll be able to create the signals to put into all these components, and read the signals coming out. I'm mostly looking for what types of components I should take with me to learn from.So far I've got...ResistorsCapsInductorsTransistors(NPN,PNP, MOSFET, JFET) - Maybe I'm missing some transistor types?DiodesOpAmps - I think I read somewhere that there are multiple types?Comparator555Voltage RegulatorsAnything else anyone can think of that would be good to learn?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 06:13:55 am
content: Great you will have access to some test gear to visually see results.Will you breadboard circuits or rats nest them?If you haven't got a breadboard better add one to your list.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 06:24:13 am
content: A couple cmos chips, very basic and useful.4011B 4066B

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 07:36:17 am
content: If you really have that kind of time, why not build some buck, boost, and buck-boost converters while you're there? I'd also buy a handful of dev boards like the ST Nucleo and TI LaunchPad series.I wouldn't want to leave the country for a new job, but I'm envious of the time you're about to have.

author: RickieSalad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 08:12:09 am
content: Quote from: tautech on January 03, 2015, 06:13:55 amGood idea on the breadboards. I am taking a couple breadboards with me.

author: RickieSalad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 08:14:13 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on January 03, 2015, 07:36:17 amNice, I like the idea of the converters. I'll have to do a little searching on what I'll need for that.Thanks. It's only an 8 month contract so it's not so bad and I've already been a couple times so that's how I know what they have available for me to play with while I'm there.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 09:50:21 am
content: To be honest it sounds like you need to grab a good book and start reading. You don't seem to be sure of what you want to achieve and you don't have any theoretical understanding by the sounds of it. You need one or the other. If you have a theoretical understanding then you already know what parts are available and the basic circuit techniques. You can then use that knowledge to work out how to solve problems. On the other hand and this is more keen to your situation if you have an idea of a problem you want to solve which you believe can be solved reasonably with electronics then you need to work out what the component blocks are you need to solve said problem and seek out those sections of theory. This is usually how a hobbyist works not necessarily going through the theory from start and covering everything along the way but going for the bits you need.I think you need a little bit of both. You need to know how the passive components work, then have a little look at transistors, I'm not saying learn to build an amplifier but just find out how they work. Next move on to operational amplifiers and comparators. Then have a look at basic logic gates and some of the more complicated logic chips. I'm not saying you need to understand how to use any of these off the top of your head, what I'm saying is you need to know they exist and what they can achieve so that when you find yourself a problem to solve you know roughly what types of parts will be suitable for the job and how to structure your solution. Once you know which parts you need to use to solve the particular problem you choose to solve then you can look deeper into different parts and what one does versus the other and you will start to learn more detail about how that particular component works and how to apply it. Then you build your project see it work and you can be sure you have learnt something. Then move onto the next problem you want to solve this will be easier because you will have already done one before and every time you solve a new problem you will investigate more circuit blocks and more components and learn more about how they work.Eventually you will want to get into microcontrollers and for that you will need to learn to program in C. But it is still important to have a good grounding in basic circuit design before you get to microcontrollers.The 555 timer is a very good chip it will allow you to do a lot and there are lots of examples of how it is used so will be out to use it quickly to solve some problems. Its functionality relies on comparators and logic circuits all built into one chip.

author: RickieSalad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 12:47:47 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 03, 2015, 09:50:21 amThis is exactly what I want to do.I do have an understanding of some of the theory. Back in the mid to late 90's I started at ITT Tech in their electronics program. We did cover beginning stuff like Ohms & Kirchhoffs laws, series, parallel, and series-parallel circuits. In the second semester we started working with caps and inductors. This is the point where I found myself leaving school because I sort of fell into a good IT related job. IT work came pretty easily to me, the money was decent, and quite frankly I got lazy so I never finished school. Now after 15 or so years in IT I've come to the realization that I'm not at all passionate about it and I'd much rather be designing and building things for a living. At 39 I'm probably a little too old to be going back to school to totally switch careers, but you only live once, and I'm much more passionate about all things electrical. I am planning to start school for EE(at a real university not at ITT this time) in the next year. So while I'm waiting to do that I thought I might pickup where I left off learning more of the theory and how to work with all of the various components. I think it'll be fun and could only help me once I do get back into school.That's basically why I'm trying to learn about all those building block type of components. You've got to learn to walk before you can run, or so I've heard.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 01:01:22 am
content: I personally think it's great what your doing. Myself, along with many other people started with arduino (a great platform btw) but have no idea what is actually going on. I wanted something done, I'd Google it, find someone who has already done it and copy them. Now I'm trying to learn the basics like yourself, so I can make my own projects and really challenge myself.You might find it helpful (I did) to try a little bit of programming in c as you go. Pick any platform (I personally use AVR because that's what I have available), download the tools and see what it's like at the basic level. Seeing what digitalWrite() actually does can help you just as much as creating a transistor emitter follower.Hope this helpsBen

author: RickieSalad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 01:18:45 am
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 04, 2015, 01:01:22 amThanks. That is sort of what I've always done. I know enough that if I wanted to do something I can search for things someone else had already done, steal and modify it for what I want to do. I just don't really fully understand it all and I'd really like that.

author: uknerd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 05:19:51 am
content: I'd have to say74ls0074ls1384017555Would be a mustYes 138 is a bit of not beginner but helps understand decodingSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 09:25:18 am
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 04, 2015, 01:01:22 amNo I don't think it does help at all. This is the big big problem with our industry and hobby everybody thinks it's about microcontrollers and programming. I have seen plenty of professionals totally fuck up a project because all they knew how to do was programme and I didn't even understand how MOSFETs worked. I don't think this is the angle the original poster is trying to come from. If he has an understanding of Ohm's law and all the other similar laws and the passive components he has but scratch the surface. Now depending on what his interests are he needs to either continue learning about the basic analogue components which he will eventually need one way or the other or he can jump straight into the Arduino get told he does not need to know about Ohm's law and then find out is having to learn it all anyway later on when he wants to do a more complicated project. I am sick and tired of people trying to make things seem easier than they are. You're either up for the challenge or you're not. Using an Arduino does not constitute doing electronics! If you want to program go get a damn computer.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 12:08:11 pm
content: If you read my post you would know that I said the opposite about 'jumping on an arduino'. I said, in my opinion, you should try and develop both skills simultaneously. To be an EE, or a decent hobbyist, you will eventually need to learn to work with microcontrollers. I also said to find a different platform such as AVR or PIC, so he can build skills which are then easily transferred to other platforms.As I said before, it is very important to understand the basic components, which is something I, as well as many others, have struggled with after starting with an arduino. However, there is nothing wrong with learning another skill to supplement that information. A time will come when you have to use a microcontroller.Ben

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 04:41:08 pm
content: As far as microcontroller development goes, I would actually recommend the Arduino or another similar platform. I found getting into microcontrollers extremely difficult because there are so many things to learn simultaneously. You need to learn C, you need to learn about the microcontroller intimately, and you need to learn how to use the IDE. With the Arduino the IDE is very simple and the language is simplified C. Once you have mastered C and are interfacing into the real world without any problems you can then look at learning more about how the microcontroller works at registry level. I found this to be the best approach. After years of banging my head against a wall trying to learn how to use a neat microcontroller I found it a lot easier to start on the Arduino and then start tinkering with the full blown at men IDE and registers. But all of that needs to come after a thorough understanding of how other components work. You can't interface any microcontroller to the real world without understanding electronics from an analogue point of view, I don't care what anybody says and I don't care what the tutorials care to tell you. There is in fact quite a problem with many Arduino users thinking that just because they have flashed a program to the Arduino they now know how to do electronics, in actual fact they have an abysmal lack of knowledge in the things they think they know.

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 06:35:06 pm
content: I agree with the points you made in your last statement, to start with Arduino and then jump into Atmel Studio as I did. However, I think learning how to interface with a component via a microcontroller WHILE you learn how it works at a basic level means that when there comes a time that you have to use a microcontroller in a project, it will be much easier to do.Ben

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 06:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: RickieSalad on January 04, 2015, 12:47:47 amIt's not too late to change career, providing you're happy to take a temporary pay cut and invest time and money in training yourself. The fact you've had some life experience will make you more valuable to an employer than someone who's just left university.Presumably you already have some experience of programming? If so, then it should make learning things like microcontrollers easier, especially if you've had experience with assembly language, irrespective of what CPU or software you've used.If you don't have much experience with programming then you can learn C and assembly language from the comfort of your desk. It's true assmebly isn't needed much nowadays but I still think it's good to become familiar with it.Revise all of the old theory about Ohm's law, resistors, capacitors etc. then move on to transistors and learn about logic gates, flip-flops, shift registers and all of the things which make a computer work.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 07:17:37 pm
content: QuoteWhat you get is a function of what you want to do.Given the arduino, I would think you want to start on the digital side of things. With that, I would get some shields, like a lcd shield, some tempearture measurement board, RTC shields, etc.I would also get some resistors - I tend to favor 1k, 10k and 100k resistors as much as I can. I would get some capacitors, 11p, 22p, .1u and 4.7u or up to 47u.Transistors are chip: 2n5551 and 2n5401 are my go-to bjts for their versatility.Voltage regulators like 7805 or 1117.Voltage references like TL431.For opamps, LM358, NE5532 or TL0xx. I would not get uA741.You can go from there, hopefully with more focus.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2015, 10:44:56 pm
content: QuoteThe Arduino IDE is very simple, however the language it's programmed in is full bog gcc C++, not a 'simplified C'. What makes it so easy to get started is all the arduino supplied C++ functions and libraries.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 09:10:16 pm
content: Perhaps it might also be a good idea.too look for something to actually build? It can be really rediculous (like a toaster that is triggered of an alarm clock - althought that might be to basic for you) just for the sake of having a goal to work towards?