for all  Dev board addicts -TI Sub-1 GHz RF Spectrum Analyzer Tool  for $25 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 12:41:26 am
content: TI has Sub-1 GHz RF Spectrum Analyzer Tool (normally $250) out for $25seehttp://t.co/tbf3I9OGPa

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:00:08 am
content: Geezz .. thanks !I guess you can't complain too much for a $25 SA with free shipping.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:02:44 am
content: Probably worth noting that it only covers regions around the ISM bands, at least officially:CC430/MSP-SA430-SUB1GHZ Supported Frequency Ranges:300 – 348 MHz389 – 464 MHz (covers the 70cm ham band)779 – 928 MHz (covers the 33cm ham band)Edit: Maybe I'm an idiot, but I can't figure out where to put in the coupon code. Help?Edit Edit: Turns out you need to go all the way to the payment entry page to enter the code. Bizarre.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:08:05 am
content: Quote from: ve7xen on August 27, 2013, 01:02:44 amWell, call me crazy, don't care if its ended up collecting dust in drawer, with that size, the shipping charge it self cost more than $25 when shipped from TI to my place, and TI uses Fedex, not USPS.So practically for me, its free and I only paid the "discounted" shipping charge.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:14:27 am
content: Yeah I'm getting one for the UHF ham bands and poking around at gadgets. Not that I need more radio crap, but it's $25! Thanks for the post mickpah.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:21:21 am
content: Quote from: ve7xen on August 27, 2013, 01:14:27 amThat is what I'm expecting to hear and waiting for, hopefully it will ended up with hacked/tweaked $25 SA.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:30:57 am
content: Thanks. Totally just cost me 25$.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:53:44 am
content: It says they're going to have something on sale each day this week.http://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/msp430blog/default.aspx

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 02:57:30 am
content: Quote from: ve7xen on August 27, 2013, 01:02:44 amA $12 RTL SDR will cover those frequency ranges and much more.

author: sportq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 09:49:03 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on August 27, 2013, 01:53:44 amI read it as each Monday for the next four weeks, not each day this week.Peter

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 10:22:51 am
content: was very disappointing that it could not be combined with the 1 year anniversary coupon, could have had a freebie :/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 10:47:01 am
content: Worked for me $25 inc shipping.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 11:40:44 am
content: This is a great deal for those who have specific needs for a cheap SA to monitor the ISM bands, but I don't see it as being particularly useful for a general purpose SA unless it is hackable to be useful over the entire first GHz.

author: kioan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 11:51:02 am
content: It seems that theCC1101 tranceiver chipit is based on, is limited to the 300-348 MHz, 387-464MHz and 779-928 MHz frequency bands.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 11:54:10 am
content: Thank you, another one to travel to Spain.

author: kayvee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 01:05:11 pm
content: Yup, another headed down South too.That's good value I reckon.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 02:12:17 pm
content: Neat! One on its way to the Netherlands! Thanks to the OP!

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 02:28:36 pm
content: And another one coming to NL ! Thanks. It just so happens I have been playing with my own set of MRF49XA domotica boards, this may come in handy fine tuning bandwidths .

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 02:54:53 pm
content: Great find Mickpah, thanks

author: Orpheus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 03:07:16 pm
content: Got one. Not sure if I'll ever use it as more than a glorified Go-NoGo tester or signal strength meter, but I have way too many half-done MCU RF experiments gathering dust for a year or more. Maybe this will help jumpstart some of them

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 03:07:49 pm
content: I wonder how long before we will see cheap things like this that can do up to 2.4ghzSDR is rapidly gaining traction and getting cheaper.

author: Chris_PL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 04:30:59 pm
content: To EU-citizens:How about customs & VAT? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if TI puts its real value ($250) on customs form, it'll likely exceed the "import customs & VAT-free" limits for electronic goods from U.S. which is about $100 AFAIR.. Therefore, including customs & VAT, we'll pay considerably more than $25

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 04:45:32 pm
content: You can produce a receipt showing what you paid. 25USD is under the threshold for import duties in my country.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 05:11:42 pm
content: One headed for me in the UK with free postageThanks to the OP for sharing.

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 05:18:53 pm
content: It amuses me that you have to supply information about your business for customs and export purposes. Even if you've told them them you're not a business.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 05:37:06 pm
content: Erm ... it's dead ?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 05:43:21 pm
content: "While supplies last the MSP-SA430-SUB1GHZ is available for the ultra-low price of $24.99 + free shipping!". Maybe they allocated a limited number of units to this promotion and ran out?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 07:19:00 pm
content: Phew !for once I didn't arrive too late for the party !

author: chrisbrown
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 08:51:53 pm
content: Guess I missed it too. If anyone finds that their unit just ends up collecting dust, I'd be willing to buy it. I have a few ISM-band projects on the go but I can't afford much gear as a student.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 09:04:23 pm
content: Look into usinga cheap DVT-T dongle as SDR receiver. These dongles used to go for under $20 (wouldn't be surprise if the price skyrocketed since then, though) and would cover much more than just the ISM bands.

author: chrisbrown
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 10:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: alm on August 27, 2013, 09:04:23 pmThanks, that looks like good information. I'll get into that stuff eventually. The problem is, for a radio newbie like me, there's $250 worth of learning curve time associated with that $20 dongle. If it takes me more than a few minutes to get an FFT on the screen, well, it's just not worth my time. There are higher-priority things on my to-learn list right now.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 11:13:24 pm
content: If a couple of hours of your time is worth $250, then I would buy a real tool (eg. the RF explorer thing that Aurora has discussed multiple times on this forum). The time saved will quickly pay for the investment.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 03:08:25 am
content: Excluding everything else except pure hardware's BOM and the manufacturing cost, curious if the cost close to $25 ?

author: jonmarx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 04:02:35 pm
content: Unless I missed it, TI's documentation doesn't appear to include any schematics for the SA430. Does anyone have any details about what's inside the box?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 04:16:23 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on August 28, 2013, 03:08:25 amUnlikely in my opinion, although I don't have detailed knowledge about the components. Regular price is $250, and they're unlikely to have a 90% margin on development tools. Note that this is not a large volume consumer item, so both BOM and manufacturing won't be as heavily cost optimized as say a $20 TV dongle from a random Chinese source.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 04:28:59 pm
content: Whoever gets one, please take it apart and publish your findings.

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 04:38:37 pm
content: DOH .. gone , I just tried to get it and cupon code can't be used anymore. Why i did not see this earlied ...

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 06:41:39 pm
content: hah, I just got mine.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2013, 07:59:39 pm
content: I've tried the DVB-T dongle SDR's to see how well they work. Not bad but quite a lot of setting up, not great dynamic range and pretty deaf without pre-amplification. A cheap way to access 50MHz-2GHz though. A tool for the lab ? ....not until the messy configuration stages are conquered. Porr setup results in really poor performance.This little Ti tool looks pretty neat for what it was intended i.e. the ISM bands. I also own a couple of RF Explorers that can be connected to a PC. It will be interesting to compare them to the Ti unit. I still think the RF Explorer is a very nice design and good value for money. Hard to beat. With regard to the Ti units band coverage, I often use RF up and down converters so the SA behaves like an IF module. For $25 it looks good to have but I would buy the RF Explorer rather than this unit at the full price of $250.With regard to what 'lives' inside the Ti SA. I suspect it will be very much like the RF Explorer minus the human interface elements. The block diagram shows what will basically be on the PCB. A microprocessor connected to an 'all-in-one' Transceiver module with RSSI output. Not a great deal is needed these days with high levels of integration. The software to drive the electronics is the real challenge for me. I am not a coder.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 12:18:47 am
content: Inside...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 12:59:03 am
content: Mine was marked as shipped.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 01:19:54 am
content: I can't really read what's on those chips in the picture, but I am assuming one is an MSP430.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 01:22:58 am
content: CC430F5137http://www.ti.com/product/cc430f5137and TUSB3410 (USB to serial)

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:11:25 am
content: Looks like just only at the hardware BOM + manufacturing cost, probably < $25 ? Since that two major big chips are TI's own ICs.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:13:12 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on August 29, 2013, 04:11:25 amI agree. The shipping is a whole different story. next-dayed over a border!

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 12:57:26 pm
content: There is a certain level of support that has to be provided when you get a dev board from somewhere like TI (as opposed to a semi-anonymous eBay seller), I would imagine some of the cost would cover that. If you look at forums or mailing lists for the RTLSDR sticks it's clear that there are a lot of EEs and hobbyists with no RF experience, that's probably a bigger hassle to support than a simple MCU board.

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 02:37:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on August 29, 2013, 04:13:12 amNot bad; the dispatch notice for mine says 7-10 days. I'm not going to complain when shipping was free and it has to cross the pond

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 02:53:38 pm
content: Assuming they ship quickly. For some of their promotions (eg. original Launchpad) it got a bit ridiculous with people waiting a few months for their Launchpad to shipped, at which point the $$$ for priority courier shipping becomes kind of pointless.I wonder if the free shipping they offer at every promotion is some sort of admission that regular shipping is way too expensive. I would be quite happy with $10 priority airmail shipping for most dev boards.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:07:43 pm
content: Everything I've ever got from TI - free samples, devboards, paid samples - has come next-day for free. I just figure they do enough volume that FedEx gives them a good deal and it doesn't cost much/any more than regular ground shipping.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2013, 04:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: ve7xen on August 29, 2013, 04:07:43 pmI think it also depends on location.If say you lived in Huangshan, China (best remote place I could think of), I'd guess fedex doesn't have a next-day service to there.

author: shamanjoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 04:10:02 am
content: As of today, 8/29/13 9:09PST the code no longer works. I tried to order it, and it says that you may no longer use this coupon.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 02:55:29 pm
content: Received!It looks like it has been sent from Texas to Netherlands and then repacked in Netherlands and sent to my home.So no custom feeds nor taxes

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 03:44:33 pm
content: Mine turned up this morning. Very impressive shipping.

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2013, 03:56:28 pm
content: Just arrived this morning: very slow compared to a SA, but nonetheless very useful to check key fobs and other devices...It was shipped*, as for all items from TI shop, from Utrecht (Netherlands), so we have no hassles about customs duties!*) I live in Italy.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2013, 04:23:30 am
content: If you want something standalone:http://ossmann.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/16-pocket-spectrum-analyzer.htmlAs for the $12 RTLSDR I got, it didn't take very long to get the rtlizer software to compile on my PC (just edit one line of the build script) and it works quite well. Now I just need to get an adapter to hook it up to a modified X10 video receiver (removed the RF modulator and added a tap from the few hundred MHz IF signal) in order to look at the 2.4GHz spectrum...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2013, 10:30:39 am
content: Just bought a couple of IM-ME units to play with. I am no hacker so will need to read how to flash the firmware. Looks like a fun little project. My units are new and cost me GBP14 each, but I suspect prices may rise as the repurposing of the unit as a simple SA becomes better known

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 09:01:08 am
content: My SA430 arrived this morning from the Netherlands via DHL. Great service to the UK and no taxes to payThe SA430 is a very neat little 'plug & play' ISM band spectrum monitor and it was a great offer from Ti. Interestingly my SA430 was made in Germany.Very pleased with this new 'toy'

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 09:35:47 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 09:01:08 amDo you mean printed on the board ?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 10:34:49 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on September 02, 2013, 09:35:47 amNever mind, just freshly arrived, its printed on the box.I thought its like other TI's products such as those cheap evaluation boards that I have that are mostly made in China.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 10:59:01 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 28, 2013, 07:59:39 pmfrom a performance point of view both are easy to beat. From price point of view, TI is really good value for money (only at the reduced price of course. That org. price is a bad joke). Sure, one can take what so ever RF CC chip from TI, their free available UI and firmware sources, change a bit to match the CC chip and compile them - ready - for less than 10USD. But then you need enclosure, antenna, have to calculate the time necessary to click twice on "build" button, so yeah, ready solution for 25USD is ok.RF Explorer is complettly different thing, sure it does works, but it is overpriced is same manner as e.g. Saleae LA. You can develop (much more) better hardware for less money. There is huge room for improvement. I think the developer know this (shit, and if not, well, then he should design bongos and not RF gears), but on the other side he need to collect money/get more popular/grow, so let say for now it's ok.Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 31, 2013, 04:23:30 amthat part is useless, "technology" with performance not worth 5USD.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 11:16:17 am
content: Just opened it, well, not very sure when if its priced at $250, but at $25 with free shipping, let alone about the functionalities, the 1st thing that impressed me when I opened it up is the SMA connector, it looks sturdy & good quality one to me.I don't have any experience on this matter, does this SMA connector is good one or just mediocre quality ?Few shots freshly made attached below.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 11:39:33 am
content: I just got mine literally like 15 minutes ago. Regarding Duane import taxes: I don't think they will charge it, the post courier didn't ask (only "please sign here"). Hopefully I don't get any additional e-mail. However, I only payed 25$ for a product, which is I believe less than the limit is set here in The Netherlands.I think I may also spotted shipment from NL though. So maybe they have shipped one big packet of stuff over to NL, and distributed it from here. I think this is the way my Stellaris Launchpads also got shipped.Plugged it in, downloaded software, was plug&play.And it works!Apparently 433MHz band is really busy around here.Moreover, when searching for weak signals I could find some. I know some radio base stations in my region that are ~5km away (1W output) and I could only just find them (couple of dBm higher than noise floor, at -110dBm):444.4MHz. In this case, the SA is situated underneath an open window.However, last saturday I had a little play with a Rigol spectrum analyser. Things I notice: the accuracy of frequencies on this device is better (Rigol could be off by say ~200kHz at 868MHz, could be uncalibrated unit or something, where as this says 868.000MHz)The sweep isn't that fast, and when you accidently scan 1kHz increments across 10MHz you have to wait for it to finish before it listens to any new command.The noise floor seems reasonably good. I had trouble picking up this 444.4MHz station at work, which is located <1km away. Only at very slow sleep rates & BW's (like 1kHz) the noise floor drops below -85dBm and makes it visible.Never the less, seems to work quite well for just 25$ shipped (or 20 euro's).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pm
content: Tinhead,Whilst I respect your opinion I find it more than a little 'narrow minded'.I am a practicing RF Tech so RF is 'my thing'. I fully appreciate that all such low priced devices are a compromise solution but then not everybody needs a top of the line, or even bottom of the line Commercial spectrum analyser. It is that part of the market that these devices serve.I use Advantest Spectrum Analysers for serious work but it is VERY useful to have a simple handheld spectrum monitor to see when a transmitter is radiating or whether there are close interfering signals present in the spectrum. I wouldn't want to lug my R3261 or R3132A's around.Horses for courses is the line that should be taken here.As to the RF Explorer being over priced....I find that a truly irritating comment. Have you read the background to the units development ? The designer wanted to see if there were interfering signals around the 433MHz ISM band and so did as you say, he built a simple spectrum monitor using easily available commercial parts. Great interest was shown in the design and Ariel decided he would develop the design to meet other peoples needs. He did not need to bother doing that and this device is unlikely to make him a fortune any time soon. The design has been developed through several iterations and the end product is still simple and affordable for most hobbyists dealing with RF transmitters and receivers. Having dealt directly with Ariel and witnessed his generosity I am naturally protective of him and his product.Where can an equivalent item be purchased in the same price bracket ?Who will build such a unit for me from scratch for the retail price of the Explorer?Who will offer free assistance and development on going at no extra cost ?Are you willing to build a better product and sell it at no, or little profit to strangers ?Are you an RF tech who has actually ever built such a unit ? If so please detail and show.This message may look like a bit of a Rant, but Tinhead, your message appears both dismissive and very unkind towards another persons hard work and IMHO excellent product for the money.Take a look at the marketplace....you will see plenty of portable spectrum monitors/analysers, but I very much doubt they sell in the range $99 to $269, with the option for gradual expansion at reasonable cost.http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=0&keyword=RF+explorer&x=13&y=11I have had to pay more for just a software package that drives an analyser !It drives me slightly crazy when people state that a units BoM is only X Dollars yet the retail price is Y Dollars and complain about it. Sorry people, welcome to the real world. If you can make it yourself and invest the time in development whilst still coming out ahead on total cost....do it and stop complaining. There are many very simple items in life that cost a lot of money as you are paying for someone's idea, time and the market value to the public. That does not necessarily make it any form of rip-off. Some would say that is an opportunity to undercut the seller and make some easy money.Tinhead you have shown yourself to be a VERY clever chap with modifications to firmware, please consider how your comments could be read though. On this occasion you came across as pretty arrogant and unkind. I know you are normally better than that.I very much look forward to seeing the highly advanced and capable spectrum analysers coming to market that Tinhead infers can be made for next to nothing ! I will be one of the first to buy one....until then ,I will stick with my two $54,000 Advantest SA's (do you honestly think they cost that to build ?) and my lowly, dishevelled and apparently overpriced RF ExplorerAs for the IM-Me....you have to have a sense of humour....it's a PINK girls toy that has been hacked into a BOYS toy.....come on you have to admit that the work the guys did to simply change it to the most simple of SA's has some merit. As for building such a unit from scratch for $5....you obviously live in a very different financial world to me.....you get nothing for $5 in the UK.I am no equipment snob....I use the right tool for the situation at hand.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 03:54:55 pm
content: BravoV,That SMA connector is excellent quality when compared to the far cheaper and common types that are soldered to the PCB using small square pins. The screw clamp mount provides excellent physical resilience as required for test connectors that may have leverage applied to it during their life. Production cost using that connector is higher than a simple solder mount type. But then Ti are asking rather a lot for the unit normally so I would expect top quality components and manufacture. If it actually is made in Germany and not China, it may go some way to explaining the high RRP. Sometimes 'made' really means 'PCB assembled into a case'.So yes, decent microwave connector, well mounted.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 04:38:30 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmthere are some dev boards available which can be used for an DIY SA, all you need is the knowledge how to use them (how to plug some cables and click on the button "run" of the provided monitor app). E.g. SI4362 based, check that board, mouser 634-4362-PRXB434-EK . Add BPF to that, second sourced when you don't want to think too much. There are as well lot of good (and available for few bucks) Mixer/PLLs. You can get complette boards for 100USD, when that too much then download e.g. LTC5510 dev board design files and modify for your needs. Today you can easily cover 0.01-4GHz range for 200-250USD (and that can be sale price for 100units or one-off price when you buy only boards and use manufacturer tools).As much i support people with their own startups/nice project ideas, as much i hate when ppl trying to make their products "magic". Note: I don't know Ariel and don't want to make him bad or so, this is just general statement.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmeverybody can, but not everybody need it or will spend time on that. The others will get shocked every day by "this is magic" statements.There is no serious market for such items, because if there would be one then you can be sure internet would be full of them.There is huge market, but these few "manufacturers" are trying to hold price as high as possible and as long as possible.Choose one or more from above.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pminternet and manufacturers app notes.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmso that's it, no big profit no business? No, it is not like that (at least for me). Not for technical products that don't need any innovation. Honestly 2yrs ago i was thinking about toy SA, but never got green light from share holders. Guess why.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmwhat do you want to check? my penis size? I was doing ham radio for 6yrs, then i moved to other country and focused on other important things (lot of kids, womans and work). Did i ever build anything RF related? Oh yes, i did^^. When you wish copy of my personal Genesys license, sure, you can get it. That didn't makes me "all wise RF gure", far from that, but don't forget one thing, we not talking about serious equipment but more or less toys based on ICs desigend for other thigns (than an SA). For sure they will do the work, within specs of course (as long the design stick to app notes). Some will be even better than all these crap chinese Hameg clones. And exactly here is the point - most ppl didn't even know how easy is (today) to build such "equipment" and how hard is to build a real piece of hardware.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmso what are you trying to tell me here? That a cheap ass RF Explorer is as good as $27,000 Advantest SA ?For sure is R3261A not the best unit ever, today worth maybe 1500USD, maybe bit more with options. But it is still good piece of SA.Or do you trying now to be fanboy? Really, when you claims to>> I am a practicing RF Tech so RF is 'my thing'then you should know the difference between toy SA and professional equipment.So what's your point? Or you simply trying to support Ariel too much, being too much "naturally protective of him and his product".I'm not sure if he would like that, one could think you assiociated with RF Explorer and trying to do "self advertisement".On the other side that reminds me on how i was "fighting" to protect Tekway DSOs, not being assiociated or fanboy/buyer "affected". I did it simply because i liked them. So for sure i can understand your rantQuote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmyou misunderstood something, his hard work, i support that. All i said is "it can be done better". But i'm sure he is aware of that.As long my company had provided enough revenue i did supported some interessting projects/startups, however not RF Explorer as i discovered it too late.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmi know, every shit that claims to be SA costs lot of money. We don't have to look too long, check that topic thing from TI, how the hell can they try to charge 250USD for that thing? Their own dev board cost 50USD, and they even published sources for very similar UI and firmware. So why the hell someone have to pay extra 200USD to get nice antenna, lol, and the "compile button click" work done. Hard to understand, really. But it is SA, "magic", huu huu. Check that marketing video, crazy.Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmoh well, after years of acceptable/good business my company fucked up within 6 months and i'm the "luck guy" who can pay the price. So yes, i know how to make calculations (haha, my wife will probably say "no, you don't". She is MBA, i'm not).Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmof course i'm arrogant, i simply hate when a 1:1 copy of dev board from X or Y will be sold as "magic" to ppl with no clue. And i hate even more when fanboys claims over the inet how great something is. Sure, because it has been designed by someone who know what to do (the X/Y board manufacturer), but that didn't means that the product based on that board are still goodQuote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmi like pink, the color as wellQuote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmrude, arrogant, narrow minded - yeah, that's me. I wasn't always like that, but everyday business(shit) can move mountains, and for sure burn out/change people.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 05:23:14 pm
content: Tinhead,Thanks for the replySome fair generic comments with which I agree.With regard to the RF Explorer, I am no 'fanboy', just pleased that a normal everyday guy managed to produce a useful product for the simple needs of users such as Radio Control modellers and ISM band experimenters. From what I can tell, Ariel was asked to develop the unit by those who wanted to buy it. I bought two as they cost peanuts and delivered the convenience of quick visualisation of the frequencies of interest. Its a quick and dirty tool but has its uses. I can build hardware but I am no coder, so the complete cased and supported product was a positive. I am aware of the difference between the likes of the RF Explorer and a 'real' spectrum analyserI totally respect you abilities and your capability to build such a unit quickly and cheaply, I and many others do not have the software skills. Making such a unit is very do-able as you say, but would the time invested in such be worth it ? In my case, likely no, as I tend to do a Rolls Royce job on my builds so $300 of time would soon be consumedRegarding your Genitalia, no interest there. I mentioned being an RF Tech as I meet many IT people who are great at coding and think RF circuits are pretty dumb and simple to execute. Those who understand RF know different, as I am sure you understand. My comment was not intended to be nasty....just probingBack on the topic of this thread, the Ti product is a cheap 'plug and play' 'toy' that will be useful to some ISM experimenters who can't afford a real SA. The ISM modules are so cheap these days that it can be a pain to need a multi $K SA for a $2 RF partManufacturers can recoup the outlay through profits, hobbyists not so easily.US$25 inc p&p for the simplicity of procurement, and ease of set up doesn't sound that bad to me. $250 for it .....nah, I wouldn't be able to recommend it. From a purely commercial standpoint.....in time terms the Ti $25 unit cost me 6.5 consultancy fee minutes

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 05:40:45 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 05:23:14 pmQuote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 05:23:14 pmlet me guess,removed?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 05:44:23 pm
content: Yes, but I just removed the comment as it seemed meanThe chap is working hard on his pet project and I don't want to appear harsh.Good 'talking' with you.Kind RegardsFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 07:21:07 pm
content: Regarding Tinheads question about my interests and incolvement in RF Explorer product...I have purchased two RF Explorers, two expansion boards and two RF limiters from Seeedstudio.I wrote to Ariel to ask for non public RF Explorer schematics and information on the RF Limiter. As a result a formal NDA exists between myself and Ariel, but I have no other involvement with Ariel, the RF Explorer, any associated activities or interests. I receive nothing for any comments that I make on the RF Explorer. I recently showed an interest in modifying the RF Limiter and Ariel kindly sent me a complete RF Limiter kit free of charge for my experimentation. Hence my comment on Ariel's generosity. Such kits are not currently available to the public.Hope that makes my situation and my impartiality clearI think I stated all this previously but no harm in repeating it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 07:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 12:55:04 pmTo be fair, my friend Alayna Phillips regularly uses spectrum analyzers, though she'll want a whole lot more than just a few ISM bands even for a portable unit.And don't discredit the color pink. There was a story of some company painting all their tools pink and the tool loss rate dropped sharply. The cost is looking a little less professional, but the clients generally don't care. And in HVAC, an excuse for using pink paint/tape/whatever is "that's the stuff we use for R410a".

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 08:14:34 pm
content: OTI have no problems with the colour pink..... I once read an excellent article on one US State chain gang policy....they all had to wear Pink .....great giants of prisoners dressed in girly pinkThe Americans had two great ideas there.....fixing the roads using prisoners and making them feel awkward by being all in pink....it is supposed to be a punishment after all ! Any escapees would certainly get noticed !

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 08:47:37 pm
content: I got mine today also.Nice , and easy to useJust made a scan of my 433Mhz & 866 bandsThe 866 is quiet around me./Bingo

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2013, 11:03:41 pm
content: Whilst we're on the subject of pink, has anyone else had the joy of working on a military product where every one of the thousand interconnect wires is pink?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2013, 08:54:30 am
content: Yes

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2013, 11:02:47 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 02, 2013, 03:54:55 pmThanks, cause after seeing that, my gut feeling says it must be better than those installed at cheap wifi boards.Btw, about the antenna, although it looks & feels like those detachable wifi antenna, is it the same thing ? I mean can I replace it with bigger one from the wifi router/access point ? Have few gathering dust somewhere under the pile of junk stuffs.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2013, 11:45:16 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on September 03, 2013, 11:02:47 amRTFMuser guide, 2.4.1 "Antenna"A center fed dipole antenna is supplied with the SA430 kit. This antenna works for most applications, but ithas some drawbacks. A dipole antenna is tuned to work best within a small frequency range. The antennathat is supplied in the kit is a ?/2 antenna with acenter frequency of 868 MHz and a recommended spanof 30 MHz. Using the antenna outside this range impacts the level reading.For better accuracy outside of this frequency range, use a 50-? antenna designed for the intendedfrequency range (915 MHz, 315 MHz, or 868 MHz).However, it is difficult to determine the true level at the transmitter in an RF system, because the transmitlevel and the received level depend on so many factors. In most cases, the effect of the antenna can beneglected, especially during the prototyping phase.so yes, you can use other 50Ohm antennas, as long they designed for the freq. range of interesst/covered by this SAQuote from: BravoV on September 03, 2013, 11:02:47 amwifi however didn't looks like being in the frequency range, so no.

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2013, 11:47:03 am
content: Also, you might find that the antennas you already have are RPSMA (Reverse polarity SMA). They have the pin on the socket rather than the plug.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2013, 08:59:00 pm
content: it is interessting to see that the input balun have DC bias (pwm out from µC to OPA237, with ~23V supply from TPS61040) configurable over two varicaps (SOD523, marked P00, no idea what is the part number). From the source code of the DLL i can see that there is way to control that bias ( CMD_SETDAC = 26, // Set the DC value for the balun), however in the app (compiled and sources) itself TI simply haven't used this functionality. What a shame.Wondering if the firmware itself is provding any DC bias, so if someone can measure it (TP6) please do so.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 08:55:36 am
content: Quote from: tinhead on September 04, 2013, 08:59:00 pmUsing just DMM right ?Curious whats is in your mind about this ? Honestly I've no idea.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 03:31:14 pm
content: The balun in front of the TI chip need/can be used e.g. to change frequency matching, which of course can improve accuracy. The circuit need then of course provide dc bias, whcih will be generated by the opamp/pwm combination, which will be controlled by the µC firmware itself. To check in detail it is necessary to compile own version of the UI (sources has been published), add a button or two to send variousCMD_SETDAC values. Then of course would be necessary to measure what CMD_SETDAC value is necessary to get 0 bias and what to get full ~23V.I received today my TI toy, heh, and shot it immediately. Darwin awards for me, really. I don't work with MSP430, but have some launchpads here, so used one of them as SBW adapter to attached CC debugger to the SA µC. However in hurry i forgot to unselect "load program" and of course the flash got wiped :\ So i can't do any further testing, TI will for sure not provide the firmware file to me. Sure, i still can write own firmware but that was not my intention, the learn what the org. firmware is capable to do was more interessting.Sure, TI could for sure provide some documenation or description of that CMD_SETDAC (and maybe as well the CMD_SETFREQ), but they didn't in first place so i doubt (i saw some replies from their support engineers on ti forum, ehm, yeah) they will do it now.So yes, measure with DMM, but the best would be with as said above with an UI that have already extra button or two to send these CMD_SETDAC as well.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 04:41:57 pm
content: You could send the SA back to the Ti supplier (The Netherlands?) and ask if they would be willing to exchange it as yours has crashed whilst being experimented with. They may be willing to help you at no cost ? It all depends how much effort you believe it is worth.For other users, I have purchased band specific antennas for each of the bands that the SA covers, they cost very little from China. Users should also be careful what they feed into the SA in terms of RF level, as greater than 0dB will likely kill the RF front end. 0dB can be easily achieved when working close to a decent output power transmitter.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 11:12:01 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 05, 2013, 04:41:57 pmno, that would be not fair (unless TI ask me to do so). I've opened support case now and will wait their response.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2013, 09:47:58 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 28, 2013, 07:59:39 pmPretty deaf? It depends...But, here is data.Some tiny detail samples from tests.First need note that DVB-T dongle input impedance is not 50ohm. So, these levels are not exactly right. HDSDR software level scale is adjusted so that using -100dBm carrier level setting (for 50ohm load) on HP8657B also HDSDR software FFT show -100dBm. (true level may diffe due to mismatch. Dongle specs say 75ohm but who knows how it is in real and over whole band up to 2.2GHz.Also not only single dongle. I have measured "lot" of same dongles - not any markable differencies. Also I have tested of course other frequencies. (yes I have tested also other DVB-T dongles with different tuners etc but it is other story)But it need also note that I have selected one of best dongle model (not cheapest possible what claims "E4000") on the market what have real genuine Elonics E4000 tuner (and of course Realtek RTL2832U for sampling tuner outputs etc.)Software used in this part of test was HDSDR. (it have some advantages over SDR# hassle)In RF FFT spectrum was used 1Hz resolution BW.(note also small offset in tune. Becouse peak visibility is better when red line do not overlay it.)50% Modulation depth was selected becouse sidebands levels are -12dBc. Most of pictures have 1kHz modulation freq.In first picture modulation signals are 400Hz and 15Hz(!) for realize this 1Hz RBW.HP8657B minimum output level is -143.5dBm.Other pictures show also nicely how level scale is nearly perfect.