Looking for instant on FPGA or CPLD for a current project - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2022, 10:16:41 pm
content: Hi all,I have a project I'm working on that I designed initially around a Microchip ATF1508 (128 macrocell) CPLD, however these are pretty much unavailable now until mid to late 2023.I'm therefore looking for a replacement. I started looking at Lattice MachXO2 a while back and purchased a dev board and programmer - this would seem to be a great choice as the design has outgrown the 128 macrocells available on the ATF1508 anyway. However MachXO2 are also unavailable at present and I havent been able to find out when they are likely to be back in stock. Does anyone have an idea of how production is going with these things?Another choice is the Microchip/Microsemi/Actel ProASIC3. These are fractionally more expensive than the MachXO2, less I/O (but I think I could get away with it) and available in small numbers (I'm not looking to make thousands of boards). I'd have to purchase a programmer as well though, and I'm not sure how long these will be around as they seem to be quite an old design. That said, they do radiation hardened versions so that could keep them in production for a while yet?With either of these I'll be having to learn a new tool chain, and move up to VHDL or Verilog from CUPL which I've been using on the ATF150x series - I look at this as a positive learning experience though.Are there any other low cost (<AUD$20) products I should be looking at that will offer around 70+ I/O, instant on, >128 macrocell equivilant?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2022, 10:52:35 pm
content: Look at Gowin

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2022, 11:27:43 pm
content: You also have the MachXO3 (but careful about the version - they come in several versions, some with Flash and some with some few-times-reprogrammable NVM.) Also in very limited stock at the moment though.Have a look at the Actel(/Microsemi/now Microchip) Igloo. Seems to be significant stock on Mouser at the moment.

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 12:31:30 am
content: Pricing on MachXO3 looks great. BGA only though, and 1.2V core (I'd need another supply for this) but cant really get them either atm. Still, if I knew they were just a month or two away, and could get a dev kit, I'd be tempted.Chipageddon is such a PITA, and it seems recovery to pre-covid stock levels is still a way off.

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 01:25:18 am
content: Gowin looks pretty interesting - there are some TQFP100 devices available and the price is great (for 1152LE anyway). In unclear what that would relate to in terms of macrocells (to inderstand what I'd need) but that would become clear once I have the project converted. Whats the toolchain like? I'll have to look into programmers etc also. Might see if there are any dev boards around for some quick prototyping.They have less than 100 though, and who knows when they have more?I think I'll go lattice MachXO3 and just wait till the stock comes in. Ive orded a dev board so can begin to port my project across, but in the interim I'll continue to work with the Microchip ATF1508 based prototype till the MachXO3's come in. By the time they have stock I should be ready to go

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 06:32:42 pm
content: Have you looked at the Microchip Igloo as I suggested? Maybe the available packages are no good for you either?

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2022, 06:36:47 pm
content: I would definitely look at the Microchip Flash-based FPGAs if you're looking for instant-on.To implement an instant-on design in SRAM-based FPGAs, significant additional circuitry may be needed. In addition to a boot PROM and/or additional system memory for unsecure configuration code, an instant-on CPLD may be needed for system configuration and supervisory tasks.Source:https://www.microsemi.com/product-directory/low-power/4881-instant-onIGLOO2 is worth looking at, there is some stock across the different distributors. Example below:https://www.mouser.ie/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology/M2GL005-TQG144?qs=pU29NIZ4ZwC98SMTPNNYFQ%3D%3Dhttps://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/m2gl005

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2022, 09:15:51 pm
content: QuoteYou do realize that most of the Lattice staff is now @ Gowin ? Also Gowin has drop in replacements for the Lattice devices.https://alcom.eu/products/gowin-littlebee-and-aurora-families-as-lattice-semis-machxo2-en-xo3-alternatives

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2022, 10:28:08 pm
content: Quote from: mon2 on July 03, 2022, 09:15:51 pmWhat is your argument for using GOWIN over Lattice? Lots of GOWIN employees are Ex-Lattice, but they are still a tiny company compared to any other FPGA supplier.Anyway, both GOWIN and Lattice are SRAM-based FPGAs with internal Flash so they are not instant-on.For reference, Microchip FPGAs can power-on in <50us whereas Lattice (and probably GOWIN too) would take closer to 3000us.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2022, 10:48:50 pm
content: The MachXO2 is given for < 1 ms.But certainly the Igloo are closer to what you'd call "instant on".

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2022, 03:55:58 am
content: Wow - very interesting gowin are drop in replacements for Lattice. I had no idea. I'll check that out. I need approx 71 I/O pins so could get by with TQFP100 or larger. MachXO3 has a 121 ball BGA though its 0.5mm pitch which would likely make the PCB a little more expensive.With Igloo I didnt see devices at the right price with enough I/O (around AUD$15-$20 would be good) but I'll check that again - I think they were 1.2V core also. ProASIC3 looks ok but old and more expensive than MachXO2, although they are available in small quantities still.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2022, 06:20:42 pm
content: From experience, I would advise staying away from the ProASIC3 unless you have absolutely no choice...

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2022, 08:11:35 pm
content: I would also avoid ProASIC3. I suggestIGLOO2 M2GL005-TQG144. It is $20 AUD on Mouser, there are 55pcs in stock and it has 84 I/Os. I think it meets your requirements.https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology/M2GL005-TQG144?qs=pU29NIZ4ZwC98SMTPNNYFQ%3D%3D

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2022, 11:52:43 pm
content: ProASIC3 - interesting - is this because of tools and support? Are Igloo2 better with tools?

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 09:32:21 am
content: ProASIC3 is on an older technology node (130nm Flash) so it is less cost effective, it only supports Libero SoC 11.9.IGLOO2 is on a 65nm Flash process and supports Libero SoC 2022.1 and later.Libero SoC has improved a lot in the last 5 years.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 08:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: EverydayMuffin on July 07, 2022, 09:32:21 amLibero 11.9 allowed users to ignore the Libero project manager bullshit and just run Synplify and the place-and-route tool designer.exe both standalone.Libero 12 and later (such as the current 2022.1) no longer allow that. You're stuck with the horrible Libero interface. It's truly shitty.