solder/desolder/air station -> Turned to Hakko FR300 / FX888D, Pro'sKit SS-969B - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 10:41:09 am
content: Hello,March 2015 update : finally I completely changed of course and ordered Hakko products (desoldering tool FR300 and soldering station FX888D, + a Pro'sKit SS-969B hot air station). See page 2 for reseller in europa and feedback if you're interested !Original title : All in one solder/desolder/air station - BK 6000 vs AOYUE Int2703A+Original question :I would like to afford an mid level all in one soldering (and so) station for 300€. I hesitate between BK 6000 vs AOYUE Int2703A+.I can buy either- BK 6000 :http://www.circuitspecialists.com/bk6000.htmlOr- Aoyue Int 2703A+ :http://www.aoyue.com/en/pro/?id=107Unfortunately I can't test or see any of them before to buy.I will mostly use the the desoldering tool, and the soldering iron. Sometimes on big components (so I need quite powerful heating and sucking capatibilities).Metcalf, JBL, Hakko and other high ends products are beyond my budget so please, even if I know those are far better, don't suggest them.The Aoyue has good specifications but seems to have in fact a pretty bad overall quality build and some negative feedbacks.The BK 6000 seems to be a good device but it's much harder to find reviews on it.And I'm not sure about accessories supplied with both of them (nozzles, etc).So I would like to know if somebody had one or both of these if I could have advices to choose between them. I'm especially interested by feedbacks on BK 6000.Thank you very much

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 06:55:28 pm
content: First off, where are you located?Knowing this makes it a lot easier to post links.The easiest way to solve this, is go into your user profile and set your country. That way your nation's flag will display beneath your userID.Now regarding the equipment, I've a couple of points and a question for you...Would you consider used?You can get top quality equipment this way ^ at a much more reasonable cost. Just need to be sure there's still parts & consumables available for it, and that it has the minimum of parts necessary to actually make it work (i.e. base unit + iron; stand would be nice, but not necessarily critical to make it function). This is where specific location really comes into play (EU may not be sufficient, as someone might find a good deal, but not realize the seller won't ship to the person they're trying to help).As per an all-in-one, they're nice until they break. Having separate equipment will allow you to use what's still working to fix the broken unit. And given the source of the equipment, this is a genuine possibility.Regarding a reasonable quality Chinese manufacturer, the only I'm directly aware of is Quick. Specifically, theQuick 861DShot air station (hot air is the one area a hobbyist has little choice but to go with an Asian manufacturer). Costs ~200EUR (849 Zloty). And you can get aHakko FX-888Dfrom Batterfly for 95EUR. Still need to add VAT and shipping (recommend some tips too), but that will get you all new equipment if you're opposed to anything used.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 08:40:49 am
content: Hi,Thank you for the answer. I'm from France, I've updated my profile as you suggested.Unfortunately I must consider only new (unused) products : I'll need an invoice, because I have the ability to make my purchase through my little own company.As I have said I was mainly looking for reviews and comparisons between those two products.Thanks everybody!

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 12:44:07 pm
content: I've got the BK6000 and in general am pleased with it, but in retrospect I should have bought individual items - eg soldering iron, desoldering gun and hot air gun. With the BK6000 you have to disconnect the soldering iron to plug in the desoldering gun which is irritating.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 03:43:55 pm
content: HelloThank you.What do you think about the general quality, is it fine ? Have you found troubles or flaws with it ?I understand the concern of separate items, but I'll be ok with the need to unplug one tool to switch to another, especially because I already have a separate iron.Thanks

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 05:16:13 pm
content: I consider them both as a junk. That fume extraction on the soldering iron is a joke. Not only it greatly interferes with soldering process, it just blows fumes through the hot air gun. Or on other hand, when you are using hot air gun it sucks the air from the fume extraction port.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 07:58:20 pm
content: Wraper - you may be correct but I can't say I've noticed the issue as I'm not using the unit in a commercial environment. I do think that I should have purchased separate units though.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:13:23 pm
content: I've had 3 of the BK 6000, and still have 2.I agree with wraper. They are junk. I forgot about the fume extractor. I pulled them all off because all they do is get in the way.My first BK6000 had a processor failure. The iron and hot air buttons were all off, the display was blank, but the main power switch was on. In this failure mode the unit applied full and constant power to the iron and it turned bright red and melted the copper tip. Good thing I was there and smelled it. It was on its way to starting a fire.These units have problems with the ring contacts on the soldering iron cartridges. Sometimes the heater doesn't make good contact and the tip cools. Sometimes the temperature sensor doesn't make good contact and the tip heats up to 100C or more over the set point. It happens more with higher temperatures, like > 340C. All 3 units have this problem, including a replacement pencil I bought at a much later time (so, all 4 in total). It's a terrible design.Circuit Specialists was not helpful in resolving this issue.The stand is useless. It doesn't have a place that holds the pencil without contacting the cartridge or tip. It looks like it was made for a different model.The desoldering gun is incredibly wimpy. I would say it sucks but the problem is it doesn't. I haven't been able to unsolder anything with it and have gone back to using solder wick and my ancient Edsyn Soldapullt (works great, by the way).There are a couple of pluses: The hot air piece works well, and there's a good selection of tips for the pencil. And the price is good, which is what attracted me in the first place, but it's a prime example of getting what you pay for.If I had to do it again I would look for a more reputable manufacturer. Get something used if you have to, and get what you need individually. I won't be lured by the all-in-one approach again. It is a master of none.I wouldn't be surprised if the BK6000 is made by Aoyue or if there's a common manufacturer for them both, given the similarity of everything.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 11:09:21 pm
content: Given that I sit corrected and bow to those with more experience. It's so much better than my old Antex 15W direct mains irons that I may have been deluded.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 01:53:02 am
content: Perhaps this will help (source of photos & quoted comments are fromwraper) as per both a thread post and some PM's he and I have had regarding hot air stations.RegardingAoyue:Quote from: wraper on January 05, 2015, 05:48:06 amRegardingQuick(photos bywraper):Quote from: wraper on April 15, 2014, 04:37:06 pmSource thread.Hopefully the photos will illustrate the better internal construction between the Aoyue and Quick models. BK's internals are similar to Aoyue based on other sources I've seen with photos of the internals.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2015, 05:10:25 pm
content: Hello,Ok you've convinced me to buy something else.I was aware of the bad feedbacks on AOUYE but for BK I didn't found anything relevant, until MarkL's post. I'll trust him.Sadly it doesn't seem easy to find in France good quality brands, at decent price (for example Hakko is really hard to find).You will often see AOUYE, BK, Zhongdi, noname chinese and so. And not even at good price most of the time.If somebody knows european resellers, I would like a tip on a good international website for ordering a good station, at least for through-hole desoldering.If it has soldering and air gun, it will be a real plus. I can also buy separate tools if they are affordable.Let's say I would pay between 100 and 180€ for each feature (so 450€ max for all of them).Do you think something can match my wishes ?Thank you very much, again !

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2015, 05:45:08 pm
content: I once bought a reseller box (6-8) pieces of those 2703 stations. I kept one and sold the rest to friends. No one have complained about them. I have used mine for hundreds of hours. The tips last for really long time.The desolder and hot air works fine. The fume extractor also works but it's a bit useless because it blows through the hot air handle. There is an inline filter which does catch something (collects white dust, flux?).Nowadays it's my spare and hot air station. Now I use a Metcal station and a real Filtronic fume extractor like thishttp://www.linkhamson.co.uk/images/pages/solder_fume_extractor.jpg

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2015, 06:12:06 pm
content: Quote from: RichardFr on February 17, 2015, 05:10:25 pmTo get quality, it doesn't appear so from what I've seen over the past few years on the forum (EU pricing is horrible).Quote from: RichardFr on February 17, 2015, 05:10:25 pmWithin your budget for quality brand new tools, it's going to be a case of pick two. Not enough there for all three. 180EUR seems like a decent amount to budget per unit, but given EU pricing, it's not unfortunately. You can get a soldering station for about that from a top brand, but desolder and hot air are more expensive (quite a bit more; you'd be lucky to touch either for your entire budget actually).Batterfly sells Hakko at the least expensive prices in EU I'm aware of, and they do ship to France.FX-888D(entry level soldering station)FX-950(cartridge tip based soldering station, analog control)FR-300(self-contained desoldering gun)FX-888D + FR-300 BundleErsa iCon Nano(solder station) Owners are very pleased with them, and based on tip selection, they can handle more than the FX-950 (or the FX-888D).Quick 861DS(hot air station) It's not a Hakko, Ersa, JBC, Weller ... degree of brand recognition, but it's the best compromise of price/quality I'm aware of for hot air.So after a soldering iron, which do you need more? Hot air or a desoldering system (beyond just wick and a mechanical solder sucker)?Let the answer to ^ be your guide.Hope this helps.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2015, 06:24:39 pm
content: For a 300€ budget you can buy a used Metal soldering station 100€, a used fume extractor for 150€ and a new Chinese hot air station for 50€.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2015, 06:29:07 pm
content: Quote from: plazma on February 17, 2015, 06:24:39 pmUnfortunately, I asked the OP if used was an option, and got an a reply of NO (2nd & 3rd posts respectively).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 08:08:16 pm
content: With 450 EUR budget, I would recommend Quick 961DS (about 200 EUR) or 961 with other suffux, or as less costly option Quick 957D which is said be good too. Soldering iron: ERSA I-CON Pico or Nano, IMO Hakko is too expensive in Europe to be viable option. Probably you will have some money left for a cheap desoldering station, not specialist at those.Watch video at11:45

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 01:36:51 pm
content: Hello everybody, thanks for your kind answers !Batterfly and its bundle of Hakko soldering/desoldering seems to be fine, and it will probably perform better than Aoyue & others.Like you said usually Hakko is pretty expensive in europa.On batterfly shipping to France is only 16€, the total price seems to be pretty good. Currently there are only available in blue/yellow, I'll eventually contact them to know about grey (which I prefer, the other colors makes them look like toys). I'll also have to review the prices or complementary/replacing furnitures, like tips (different sizes, etc).Nanofrog, unfortunately your link for Quick is broken (empty link). Was it for a specific reseller that you recommand ? Batterfly doesn't supply Quick products.I was thinking Quick was a low end brand (maybe the name is misleading ? Sounds likes crappy product...), but if you think there are nice products I'll have a try, maybe for Hot air gun !Therefore I'll have the complete set of tools.And yes, as I said (maybe I explained it too bad ? Sorry), I'll pay all these products through my little company, as professional tools. So I'll need a valid invoice for legal reasons.Thank you !

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 03:30:56 pm
content: Quote from: RichardFr on February 20, 2015, 01:36:51 pmAFAIK, the FR-300 only comes in the blue+ yellow color scheme. The iron was (is still?) made in silver, but that's not what Batterfly is including in the bundle IIRC.As per the Quick branded hot air station, here's the one I linked previously (Quick DS861DS). Selected because the language could be set to English, not based on experience with this seller.wrapermay also be able to help with other sites to purchase from (seems all the resellers of it are in Poland for some reason).The brand name threw me as well (immediately presume it to be the same crap that everyone else seems to be copying from one another). But withwraper's help (internal photos he provided), it got me over my trepidation, and I bought one (it's called the 861DW here; difference is the transformer and heating element cartridge assy. <quite nice BTW> are rated for 120V). No experience with their irons or desoldering equipment though. I did look at their All-In-One rework system, and it was well out of your listed budget, so never even mentioned it (~930EUR IIRC before VAT & shipping).Quote from: RichardFr on February 20, 2015, 01:36:51 pmI get that.Do keep in mind however, this is actually possible with used equipment (used equipment dealers will have setup their receipts/invoices correctly for their customers' business requirements). Could come in handy for future use.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 05:48:52 pm
content: One more nail in the coffin for (or rather, against) the BK6000 unit, I am afraid.The desoldering tool nozle ALWAYS blocks up, requiring very frequent cleaning - several times if you are desoldering even a 16pin DIP device, for example. The problem is that the tube through which the solder is sucked (which passes through the centre of the heating element) is too long, and the "tail" of the pipe sticks out beyond the heating element to such an extent that it cools to below the melting point of solder. Now, somebody DESIGNED it that way!If I was buying again, I thinkg I agree that I might buy soldering, desoldering and hot-air tools individually, rather than this 3:1 setup.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 07:43:08 pm
content: I have an AOYUE Soldering/Desoldering station and I really like it. Of course mine is a much older 701+ analog dial model and seems to be much higher quality construction than the ones they have been producing lately.http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-Function-Soldering-Desoldering-Station/dp/B000KSRS9SI am pretty convinced the analog dial models of these Chinese products are higher quality than the ones they have put all the fancy digital buttons, digital displays and leds all over. I think they are trying to make them look all modern and then skimping on the internal construction to make the manufacturing cost even out.The soldering gun came with lots of extra parts, and cleaning tools and it works great. It hardly ever clogs up, I think I went two years before I first cleaned it. I didn't use it every day but I did use it quite a bit by the time I got around to cleaning it.And the soldering iron uses standard hakko tips and works well.It ALSO has nice real front panel on/off switches, unlike the hot air gun I have which is digital and you have to reach around the think on the back for a real on/off switch.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 07:41:32 am
content: Hello,Thank you nixfu and LaurenceW for your review.Currently, following your advices, I'm planning to buy on Batterfly :- A bundle ofHakko FX888 and FR300About the color, saturday I emailed Batterfly and a few minutes later they responded me they have enabled the "Silver" for FX888 : very nice customer service, I appreciated that.-A pro's kit ss969hot air station, which seems to have very good quality for nice price. Here's aAnd of course an assortment of tips for all these tools, as they are supplied almost naked.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 03:28:32 pm
content: Quote from: RichardFr on February 23, 2015, 07:41:32 amThat kind of customer service is has gotten rare IME, so a hugefor Batterfly making you a happy customer.But that does leave me with one question now; are you going to spray paint the plastic case parts of the FR-300 to match?Quote from: RichardFr on February 23, 2015, 07:41:32 amIt's a bit better made than the 858D models (WEP, Atten, ...), but I'm uncertain if it will hold up over time under professional use (gut instincts say it won't).So is it possible to hold out a bit in order to get a better quality hot air station that can take the punishment of professional use? Say to put together an additional ~110EUR or so?I realize it's more money than you budgeted, but I truly believe you'll be better off in the long run if you can manage this.Quote from: RichardFr on February 23, 2015, 07:41:32 amFor the iron & desoldering tool, definitely.But a small round nozzle (just a metal tube/pipe) will do nearly any part you're trying to work with using hot air IME.So you might want to buy specialty nozzles only as needed (certainly easier on the wallet this way).

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 11:33:40 am
content: Hello,The hot air won't be used very often (I think) so this one should be ok at that price level !For the tips, you're right. I was mainly intending to buy some for Hakko products.It's bad they are not supplied with the products themselves, or in a bundle. Batterfly provide each of them separately, and I have to do my own assortment.http://www.batterfly.com/shop/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=hakko&filter_description=true&filter_category_id=182&limit=100edit : for 888 tips this link seems better :http://www.batterfly.com/shop/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=t18&filter_category_id=182&filter_description=trueI would have preferred an assortment of various ones.Do you eventually have advices on which ones to buy for various general uses ?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 02:18:59 am
content: Quote from: RichardFr on February 26, 2015, 11:33:40 amA selection of chisels will handle the overwhelming majority of jobs. Hoofs can be useful, and a tip designed specifically for drag soldering is well worth having if you do a fair bit of SMD work, and is available to you* (hoof or knife can do this, but I find the specialty tip for this purpose does a better job <holds a ball of solder under the tip>).Hakko'sTip Selection Pagemight be of some use (see what's used for what jobs, and pay attention to those that have a lot of cross-over <do more than one type of job>).* Seems it's not available in all markets, apparently due to Intellectual Property issues (Trademarks over the name of the tip itself IIRC). But you can get it from an overseas location if you're willing.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 05:37:33 pm
content: Thank you for the link !I finally placed my order on Batterfly and received the shipment less than one week after !I just had hard times to get the FX888 in Silver (was available when I put it in my basket but unavailable when I finalized my order. I dealt with them to delay the expedition of this product but to get all the others right now, according to them the silver fx888 won't be in stock before many weeks)Very efficient and professional team !Concerning the products themselves, apart the Hakko FR300 and FX888D I ordered these :HAKKO N50-06 Nozzle - Size ? 1.6 mm for HAKKO FR-300 N50-06HAKKO N50-01 S-Nozzle - Size ? 0.8 mm for HAKKO FR-300 N50-01HAKKO N50-05 Nozzle - Size ? 1.3 mm for HAKKO FR-300 N50-05HAKKO N50-03 Nozzle - Size ? 0.8 mm for HAKKO FR-300 N50-03HAKKO T18-C1 Shape-1C punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-C1HAKKO T18-C2 Shape-2C punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-C2HAKKO T18-C4 Shape-4C punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-C4HAKKO T18-D08 Shape-0.8D punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-D08HAKKO T18-D12 Shape-1.2D punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-D12HAKKO T18-D24 Shape-2.4D punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-D24HAKKO T18-I Shape-I punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-IHAKKO T18-S3 Shape-S3 punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-S3HAKKO T18-K Shape-K punta saldante per HAKKO FX-888D T18-KAll of these cost a lot (approx 80€ for all tips), but I won't lack anythingI have also ordered various other items, including the Pro'sKit SS-969B hot air station.So far I've just tested the FR300. Works great for simple PCB, but not really efficient for multilayered boards like computer's motherboards unfortunately. I guess I also need a bit of practice.I was disappointed to see a broken piece of plastic on the FR300 just after unpacking it. It's a very little and useless one, close to the heat gun, but on something at this price it's not really pleasant !Again, thank you all for your advices and especially to nanofrog

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 06:08:08 pm
content: Since you got the FR300, which datecode does it have?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 03:05:11 am
content: Quote from: RichardFr on March 11, 2015, 05:37:33 pmWith all of those layers, pretty much anything you try by itself will struggle (iron, desoldering iron, or hot air). Preheat the board first (say 125 - 150C), and see if that doesn't improve your results and make life easier.As per what to use, a used or cheap hot air preheater plate would be ideal (I've a 110V version of anATTEN AT853Athat ran me ~$62 shipped using a discount code <Tenma label on mine>)*. But if you can suspend the board somehow (I use a Panavise), you may be able to rig some way to direct the output of your hot air station to the underside of the board. Another potential solution would be put it in the oven (parts on both sides prevents using an electric skillet).* Added link.Quote from: RichardFr on March 11, 2015, 05:37:33 pmI'd feel the same way.Contact Batterfly and/or Hakko and see about getting a replacement part sent to you instead of sending the existing unit back for replacement.Quote from: RichardFr on March 11, 2015, 05:37:33 pmYou're welcome. Glad it helped.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 03:28:42 pm
content: neslekkim > I'll have a look on it and tell you. Where is it usually written ?nanofrog > I don't think it worths the effort. The piece is almost useless I think and I have already bothered a lot Batterfly.It's well visible (intact of course) on this picture :http://www.batterfly.com/shop/image/data/pic%20hakko/fr-300/IMG_0039.JPGOn the right of the pic, it's the little piece of blue plastic, just at the left of the cylinder where goes the tin.For these boards, preheating was one of my options. Clearly, desoldering on those multilayer boards with very little holes and massives ground planes is incredibly troublesome.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 10:30:46 pm
content: Quote from: RichardFr on March 12, 2015, 03:28:42 pmI don't know, but it was discussed here, due to some problems with the heating element of some earlier models:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hakko-fr-300-desoldering-tool/msg620988/#msg620988I want to get this kit, but batterfly did not answer, and ordering this kit abroard is not funny if you get this kind of problems.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 08:58:43 am
content: Hello,I've read reviews relating early failure of devices but I (naively?) thought it was fixed since. I see in your topic old versions are still very present on the market.The manual of mine tells "2014.4", so it could be an old version.But on the device itself I see a silver sticker with : "2015.02 2", which lets me hope ! I bought it in first days of march, so I'm lucky (and surprised !) if it's really from february.There is also a model# : FR300-15 (maybe the 15 is a revision ?) and a serial# (which probably doesn't help)Richard

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 05:47:07 pm
content: Quote from: RichardFr on March 15, 2015, 08:58:43 amFWIW, what follows the dash is usually the voltage portion of the part number. Take the full part number FX-888D-23BY for example, where 23 indicates US voltage, and BY is the color scheme.In the case of the FR300 desoldering tool, I keep seeing FR300-05/P as the full P/N for the US version.

author: RichardFr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2015, 11:20:01 am
content: Ok, thank you for the precision. Mine is 230V edition with french/italian/belgian (and maybe others?) plug.