Apple repair center claims water damage, your help is appreciated - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 12:27:28 am
content: Dear forum folk, I hope to make use of your wisdom. A while back I obtained an old Iphone 6 with a totally shot battery. I thought it'd be fun to tinker with it for a bit and decided to have the battery replaced by an official Apple repair center. I'd normally do these kinds of repairs myself, but things have been somewhat hectic and I liked to get it out of the way. Unfortunately that decision has come back to bite me. The repair center is refusing to do the simple battery swap. They claim they can't do the "repair" due to water ingress and resulting water damage and safety issues. I've asked for pictures and as far as I can tell no water ingress is obvious and certainly no damage or corrosion which may prevent the repair. The repair center commented as follows."The LCI on the right side is discoloured (red). A sizeable smudge can be seen on the back of the screen and furthermore there's some smudges near the bottom (near the Lightning connector)."The moisture indicator in the sim slot is discoloured, but even that looks like it's not properly fixed to the phone and may have been manipulated. Whatever the case, a discoloured indicator doesn't equate ingress or damage. The smudge on the back of the screen doesn't look like a water smudge to me and more like something like tape residue or a booger from whoever assembled the phone. There's no corresponding smudge on the battery, which I'd expect in the case of water. Instead of getting into an endless and fruitless discussion about the nature of what we're seeing, I thought to ask your expert opinion. I've masked off serial numbers but have not covered anything of importance, except for one moisture indicator which has partly been covered by the masking but which hasn't changed colour at all. They want to either back out of the repair and forfeit what I paid them or want me to buy a new replacement phone, both of which seem utterly ridiculous to me. I've contracted them to do a battery swap and see nothing which would reasonably prevent them from fulfilling the contract, but also understand that my interests could influence my perception.Could you maybe tell me whether you see any evidence of any actual water ingress, any evidence of damage caused by water, or anything which would outright prevent a battery swap from occurring or occurring safely?

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 01:26:30 am
content: First picture does look like it got wet. Those surfaces should be shiny.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 01:30:23 am
content: Those moisture indicators trigger all the time, even when your phone has never seen water. High humidity is enough to set them off.I'm wondering if Apple is using very sensitive markers on purpose just to make things difficult for you?

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 01:31:00 am
content: Where was the phone used? That "damage" could be caused by operating in a high humidity tropical climate.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 01:57:40 am
content: Quote from: oPossum on March 11, 2019, 01:26:30 amAs far as I can tell we're looking at an uneven coating or at atmospheric oxidation. But let's suppose it's water ingress. Is that going to impede a battery swap in any meaningful way? They're simply refusing to do anything with the phone and are citing a potential danger.It should be noted that there's what seems to be some sort of conformal coating on the SMD components surrounding the connector. It seems Apple is expecting some water ingress there.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:32:31 am
content: "Water damage" and "safety" is the standard BS that Apple uses to try and force you to buy new crap (big thing on Louis Rossmann's channel). I suggest contacting iPadRehab about a battery swap (if they can get batteries due to all the customs garbage).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:37:47 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 11, 2019, 02:32:31 amThey're trying to either forfeit my payment for the swap without actually doing the swap or sell me a new 5 year old phone for a fairly obscene amount of money. Both feel like a scam, looking at what they present me with. I'd really prefer them to just get on with the job, but it somehow feels like that won't be an option.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 02:41:03 am
content: While Apple deserves its fair share of criticism in my book, there is an argument for them taking this stance.It is not inconceivable that more than one of the people getting a repair back from Apple will be expecting it to be "as good as new" and Apple are taking the extreme cautionary stance to avoid future confrontation.Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 11, 2019, 02:32:31 am... and that.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 03:26:30 am
content: Is Louis Rossmann a possible choice?...or you could just do it yourself. Given what you should know already about Apple, that seems the sane route.

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 08:15:56 am
content: I don’t understand this concept of a forfeited repair cost. If Apple are unable to proceed, they will give you your phone and your money back. Just take it elsewhere.

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:57:49 am
content: Quote from: stevelup on March 11, 2019, 08:15:56 amApple is going to keep a portion (or all) of the amount paid for the repair, because they incurred expenses (labor) to disassemble the phone to diagnose it. This would not be unlike paying a car dealership a diagnostic fee to determine what a problem is, whether or not you agree to do the repair once they determine the problem. I ran into a similar scenario about a decade ago when I had a 17" macbook pro which developed a battery charging issue under warranty... apple made it clear up front that I would have to pay for the diagnosis up front, and if it turned out to be a warranty issue my payment would be refunded.While this sucks, IMO the OP bought a second-hand phone with an unknown history which very well may have experienced water ingress, he has no way of knowing.Taking an out of warranty apple product to apple for anything is just asking for a lubeless prostate exam, IMO.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 10:43:35 am
content: Oh this old one.There's a flaw in the iPhone 6. It's not waterproof and any trivial ingress can get inside the chassis and trigger this. Might even be ear sweat or something. We're made of water ffs. Just replace the battery yourself and shrug it. It'll probably be fine. Anything 6s and above has an IP rating. The 6s doesn't officially but it is ingress proof to some unknown level. If you have a 7, 8, 10, XR, XS etc then this issue is gone because the thing is ingress proof. If they claim that you charge back the wankers.The reason they won't touch it, and I sort of agree with them, is that if there's a problem with it after the repair then you can claim against them for that by saying it didn't exist beforehand. When my old 6s had a light spot on the screen for example, I took it in for (AppleCare repair) and they put two screens on it, neither of which would calibrate, and the charger port died (clearly repaired by an idiot) then they gave me a brand new handset. That was one expensive repair for Apple. If you had buggered the handset yourself (or the previous owner there), then as part of the repair guarantee if they couldn't fix the battery they would give you a new handset. And that's where people can come and take the piss you see and they do in much larger amounts than genuine repair cases. Most poeple are rabid gorillas.But as vtwin@cox.net says, if it's out of warranty, don't go to the Apple Store. If you're not an idiot buy an ifixit toolkit and do it yourself.

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 04:38:54 pm
content: Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on March 11, 2019, 09:57:49 amPerhaps it's different here in the UK, but I took a phone in for a battery replacement, and they claimed it was water damaged. They then just handed it back to me - that was the end of the story - no diagnostic fee, no nothing.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 05:02:01 pm
content: There certainly was some water in this phone, corroded metal shim on connector is especially obvious. How much there was and if there is any serious damage is hard to tell without taking PCB out and making better photos. Sometimes 1 drop of water in the right place is enough to cause irreparable PCB damage. I think phone is dead not because of bad battery as such. If it discharged flat, it could happen because of liquid damage. Often phones start to consume significant current even when off.P.S. I was doing Nokia warranty and paid repair in the past, so I have experience with this things. Water damage is very common in this type of devices.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 05:09:41 pm
content: Totally agree. I think I killed 3 nokia handsets with water. One of them vibrated off the top of the PC into a cup of coffee. Anopther one I dropped into a pan of potatoes and one went in the toilet

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 05:41:44 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 11, 2019, 02:37:47 amTo the best of my knowledge (both as a former employee and a customer), Apple does not charge for diagnostics, and won't charge you for a refused service like here. (Free diagnostics is onemajoradvantage of Apple compared to third-party repair shops, even authorized ones. They can charge for diagnostics on non-warranty work.)Are you assuming this is what Apple is going to do, or did they actually tell you this?

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 10:05:41 pm
content: Don't those apple water damage indicators come triggered from the factory?

author: rbm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 11:01:36 pm
content: Would it be an option to abandon the phone at the Apple centre? Then used the funds saved to purchase another.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 12:28:50 am
content: OP didn't indicate whether the phone was in working condition or not prior to going to Apple.OP didn't set or state his country, so we don't know what legal system we're dealing with.In any case, our opinion really doesn't matter here. Have you asked them to do the battery swap anyway? And if they said no, have you asked for the phone back?

author: electromotive
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 02:10:28 am
content: I once sent a Macbook to Apple for repair. When it was mailed back, it looked like it had been thrown across a room and the SOBs swapped a different (BAD) battery into it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 08:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on March 11, 2019, 03:26:30 amI could do it myself, that's not the issue. I have too many projects and this isn't one that really fancies my interest and an original OEM battery sounded interesting. Unfortunately that ship has sailed and it's a matter of making sure I don't lose my shirt. I'd prefer them to just perform the battery swap I contracted them for, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 08:30:26 pm
content: Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on March 11, 2019, 09:57:49 amThe problem is that I never agreed to a repair. I ordered a battery swap, but it has been turned into a "repair" without my consent. Their "repair" entails selling me a new old model phone. The phone has a known history. It's been used in the real world, but hasn't suffered any major incidents.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 08:35:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 11, 2019, 05:41:44 pmCorrect. It's a third party Apple repair center. They're officially sanctioned, work with OEM parts and are now also hiding behind agreements between them and Apple prohibiting the swap. Those agreements weren't mentioned before of in the contract or their terms or conditions.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 08:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: rbm on March 11, 2019, 11:01:36 pmNo way. The phone still represents a significant value. It's working just fine, other than the battery being completely worn out by actual use. They'd likely just part it out for other repairs and profit from the situation.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 01:32:51 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 12, 2019, 08:35:26 pmNo no, it wasn't a yes/no question. It was A/B. Please answer accordingly. Assumption, or what you were actually told?

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:26:05 am
content: Here’s an iPhone 6S I’ve owned since new, and hacked apart less than 12 hours ago.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:28:29 am
content: Here’s the reason why (not water), and an App I wrote to display the time. SmashTime (tm).

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 01:02:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 12, 2019, 08:30:26 pmA battery swap is a repair. It's a repair of a bad battery. It becomes a larger repair when they disassemble the unit and see corrosion in the charging system caused by water damage. They're not going to replace the battery w/o repairing those other components (if possible) because the battery issue may have been caused by the damage to the other charging components, and putting in a new battery which may fail prematurely due to the other damage is just going to cause them larger headaches when you return in 3 or 6 months complaining the new battery they just installed is prematurely failing.That's going to be corporate policy, whether you like it or not.This is why I do my own repairs if at all possible, and, if not, I take it to the local hack who will do it for me regardless of the corrosion on my lightening plug.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 01:35:33 pm
content: Quote from: @rt on March 13, 2019, 06:28:29 amAdd an option for flickering color bars foe more realism.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 01:37:55 pm
content: Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on March 13, 2019, 01:02:56 pmYep, I don't encourage their practices but simply replacing battery in a phone that has signs of liquid damage is shooting in your own foot. Consider that a few out of 10 customers will return after a while claiming that new battery is crap or service broke perfectly functional phone.In the days when I repaired phones for living I did not refuse repairing liquid damaged phones unless they were extremely bad, while most other technicians refused those straight away. It was certainly not for my own good, it only gave me a headache and wasted a lot of time due to complicated repairs with uncertain end result, thus reducing my profit. Not to say it posed quite high chance of returns. And the worst part was that receptionists started intentionally shoveling that crap on me.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on March 13, 2019, 01:02:56 pmIt's not a repair. It's replacing a worn battery. The thing has been used up. I'm not repairing my car when I replace the tires. I'm not repairing my other phone when I swap out its battery. The fact that the accessibility of the IPhone battery is terrible doesn't make it a repair.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 13, 2019, 01:37:55 pmI'm not aware of any damage. The battery went flat through use. For all I care they give me the OEM battery as a separate part so I can install it myself, but we all know that's not going to fly.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 06:45:17 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 13, 2019, 01:35:33 pm100% real is as real as it gets.I had to put up with it for about a month. It couldn’t display a legible time of day on the title bar or lock screen,so I familiarised myself with Xcode enough again after 5 years away from it to print the time in the working display area.It was otherwise working fine though, so the photo of it’s guts is probably a useful comparison.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 07:16:00 pm
content: This does indeed happen. We’ve got a box of about 40 munted handsets in the office and most of them power up with part of the screen working.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 07:36:56 pm
content: I don’t know where the moisture indicators are, but I guess I can figure it out with some water.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 08:54:01 pm
content: For the moderately dishonest you can actually buy replacement water indicators on aliexpress

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 09:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on March 13, 2019, 08:54:01 pmThey check for signs of the device being opened before and also ask about it. You'd probably need to replace the screws too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 09:13:58 pm
content: Plead ignorance. You can get replacement screws.I'm not saying it's right.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 10:50:13 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 12, 2019, 08:30:26 pmI do not think that is a valid argument at all. The definition or "repair" is torestore something damaged, faulty, or worn to a good conditionso I think a battery change well qualifies as "repair" even if it was much easier and even if the customer could do it himself.OTOH, if they refuse to do the repair for their own reasons then I think it is not fair they try to charge you and if they insist I would be looking at small claims court or other possible avenues.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 05:23:03 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on March 13, 2019, 09:13:58 pmPleading ignorance doesn't work. They won't touch devices worked on before, which means there's no way of knowing what they'll find inside. There could be tripped markers, there may not be. That's another reason why the repair story doesn't hold up.

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 11:56:15 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 13, 2019, 06:18:42 pmIt's still a repair.When you replace the tires on your car, if the shop finds the bearings are damaged and would likely result in premature tire wear or possibly tire failure, there's a very good chance they'll refuse to install the tires for you. Depending on the shop's policy, they may even charge you a half hour of labor for putting the car up on the lift and diagnosing the issue.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 01:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 14, 2019, 05:23:03 amIt's the same as with liquid damaged phones. There may be all sorts of crap going on with those. To the point it may be holding together with snot. Once you take it apart, you're in hell, because you cannot assemble it back as it was before.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 01:24:32 pm
content: This is true.TBH I know when shit is fucked. I usually stick it on ebay, listed 100% honestly and someone else can deal with it. The time you piss out of the window hanging onto utility things that are borderline knackered costs a lot of time and time is finite.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 01:30:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 12, 2019, 08:35:26 pmYes, that's right, Apple tells you to check for water damage before a repair. They can refuse to replace the battery if there's water damage but then you don't have to pay anything because they're the ones refusing to do the repair, not you. Even if in the small print in the terms of service in the paper you signed when you left them the iphone says there's a fixed charge for labour (1/2 an hour is usual, maybe 1 hour at most, for diagnosing the problem), that's only for the event of a no repair, for when/if you don't accept the repair quote, but they can't force you to accept a higher quote for an other repair you didn't ask for and don't want them to do...A honest shop should be giving you these toher two options too:1) Take your iphone back as is (no repair) and pay nothing, or2) Change the battery and nothing else which is what you've contracted them to do, perhaps making you sign another paper relieving them of any responsibility if anything other than the battery goes wrong with it after the repair.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 03:52:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on March 13, 2019, 08:54:01 pmAnd by the time you've faffed around opening it up, you might as well have replaced the battery yourself.Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 13, 2019, 06:18:42 pmSemantics aside. What did the terms and conditions say?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 02:31:57 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 14, 2019, 01:30:48 pmWhat Apple says is irrelevant. I didn't enter into an agreement with Apple. I triple checked the terms and conditions and there's no mention of these agreements with Apple. I agree with your assessment of what options I should be given.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 02:45:02 pm
content: While I appreciate the legal discussion and should have guessed as much would happen, I'd like to steer the discussion back towards the original question of a more factual and technical nature. Is in your opinion water ingress visible in these pictures, is there evidence of subsequent damage in them and is there evidence of damage which would physically prohibit a battery swap?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 05:30:37 pm
content: QuoteNo. Non-working phones in far worse shape are repairable, although that shop may not have the expertise. Your already-working phone is clearly repairable, even by this shop, if you stretch the word far enough to include battery swaps.But our definition of repairable isn't what matters here, is it? What really matters is what your written, verbal, or implied contract with the shop says.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 06:19:21 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on March 15, 2019, 05:30:37 pmI adjusted the text you quoted after you quoted it, as I hadn't expressed myself carefully enough. At this point it's a matter of them claiming the swap is impossible due to existing water damage and providing these pictures as evidence. My stance is that's utter nonsense, but I'll readily concede my views won't be neutral.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 07:48:02 pm
content: Seeing those photos, no one who was honest could claim that "a battery swap is impossible". There's absolutely nothing in those photos that suggests that the iphone may be damaged.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 07:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 15, 2019, 02:31:57 pmIt's relevant in the sense that they've got to adhere to Apple's Service policies. If they replace the battery and the iphone comes back in for another repair a week later they are going to be penalized, even if the repair has nothing to do with the battery... that's just the way the Apple Service works.

author: Deepak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 08:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 15, 2019, 07:48:02 pmWell as long as you're fine with aniPhone of Theseusanything is possible. The only thing that matters is what work they're willing to take on, and what their policy is for determining water damage. A technical argument won't get them to change the battery.My 2 cents - I've got really sweaty hands and I've never had one of those sensors change color on my phones. And I'm not from a tropical environment, but I have been caught in rain that was bad enough to rub the numbers off of a thermally printed train pass in my pocket and it didn't change colors there either.There's a possibility that thing fell into a toilet at some point in its life...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 15, 2019, 07:54:10 pmIf that's the case they should have informed me beforehand. Not mentioning it to me or even having it in the terms and condition and subsequently using it as an excuse isn't going to fly. If this company comes to conflicting agreements with two separate parties it's a problem of their own making and not mine to deal with.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: Deepak on March 15, 2019, 08:20:19 pmThere's literally zero chance this phone has seen the inside of a toilet or any other significant body of water in its life. The history is known. It's been used in the real world but hasn't seen any major mishaps.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:27:51 am
content: I suspect something like using it under the rain, or splashing water on it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:34:21 am
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 15, 2019, 07:48:02 pmThere are quite noticable signs of water/corrosion. To judge if there is damage to electronics, you would need to take PCB out and inspect it and flex cables under microscope. Also as I already said, corrosion often causes poor battery life due to current leakage.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 02:16:36 am
content: Quote from: wraper on March 16, 2019, 12:34:21 amWhat signs of water/corrosion do you think you see? The area around the battery connector looks absolutely pristine to me. Your assessment that they'd need to take the PCB out and inspect it seems to indicate they shouldn't be able to tell there is damage, as they've obviously not removed the PCB. If they would have, we would have been able to see this in relevant pictures.

author: Deepak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 04:25:33 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 15, 2019, 11:36:05 pmIf that's the case then why ask us what we think? Specifically when you ask this:QuoteAre you willing to accept any response other than agreement with your assertion that no water got into the device? Every one of your pictures contains evidence of water ingress. The sticker is designed specifically to be evidence of water and every scenario whether it's the toilet, or living in a rainforest with 110% humidity 25 hours a day 8 days a week, or an untoward repair guy putting in a sticker that was already exposed to liquid involves that thing actually functioning as designed.No one knows definitively how much water got in there and no one can definitively say what the circumstances of that happening were, but to say there's no evidence of water at all seems improbable.I wonder what the water content of boogers would be...And the question about the battery swap is not a technical question. Everything in the device could be smashed beyond recognition but as long as the battery compartment retained its original shape then the battery could of course be swapped. The thing preventing a battery swap is their policy, and the amount of liability they're willing to take on, and what they think the obligations of repair are. If there's evidence of water, which there is, then they don't fix, which they didn't. Everything else is legal.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 04:58:58 am
content: Quote from: Deepak on March 16, 2019, 04:25:33 amPlease note that I said "zero chance this phone has seen the inside of a toilet or any other significant body of water in its life", not "that no water got into the device" as you seem to have interpreted it. I know for sure the phone hasn't been dropped into a body of water and hasn't been in contact with a significant amount of water, which was what you suggested by posting "There's a possibility that thing fell into a toilet at some point in its life..."I'm obviously trying to assess my position by asking others about what they make of the provided photos and story, which means I'll weigh your and their views. Can you clarify what evidence you see in the photos other than the sticker?

author: Deepak
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 05:22:54 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 16, 2019, 04:58:58 amWell the crud on the terminals as well. If you take clean metal, put some standard impure water on it and let it evaporate slowly in an enclosed space you'll see corrosion that looks like that. I dunno what the smear is, so if we assume it's irrelevant that's still 2 pieces of evidence indicating water and one that doesn't. If the technical requirement they have to satisfy to refuse repair isevidence of water ingressthen I'd say the criteria has been satisfied.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 07:35:45 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 16, 2019, 02:16:36 amMetal shim on the bottom above charge/data port is significantly corroded. It should be shiny, not matte white. That alone is a sign you need to throughly inspect all electronics before accepting doing any job on it. The freaking may be corrosion under some micro bga IC. I repaired many thousands of mobile phones in the past, so I know what I'm talking about. Often there may be corrosion but moisture sensors unaffected because water got only in some areas. In your case there's are signs of liquid all around the phone.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 07:41:18 am
content: If their policy is to not repair any liquid damaged phones why would they waste their time and inspect any further to see if electronics are unaffected?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 07:54:54 am
content: Not to say it would be stupid to spend time removing PCB and inspecting all of that, and then charge for usual battery swap. But as they don't do liquid damage repair, they cannot charge for that either. So it's basically loose loose situation for them doing any job on it.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 09:05:43 am
content: They can make him sign a paper "I understand it seems it's got water damage and therefore ..." to have their backs covered. The problem with that is that if he takes the iphone to another service center the following week, Apple is going to penalize them anyways (them= the first repair shop).

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 09:48:23 am
content: The simple question here is what terms and conditions were agreed to when you handed the device over for repair?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:30:51 am
content: They don't want to repair it and that is that. You cannot force them to do it by arguing with them any more than your chances of getting sex will increase by arguing with your date that you really want it and deserve it.Now the question is whether they can demand some payment or not for having looked at it and that is something which can only be answered by the agreement you had with them when you handed the phone over and, in case of disagreement, by a magistrate.I would just try to get the phone back without paying anything and if they demand payment trying to talk nicely and convince them to waive their demand.The rest, whether we think the phone got wet or not, whether we think the policy is right or not, etc. is just us here shooting the breeze.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:46:02 am
content: Apple do not want to repair your phoneApple do not want you to repair it yourselfApple do not want to help you outApple do not want others to help youApple want to make moneyApple is very good at itThat pretty much says it all.Apple are not evil, lots of nice people work for Apple.But, at the top, they are run by teams of lawyers and accountants and making money within the exact letter of the law is the only thing they care about.They set the rules that all the Apple employees must follow.No employee is allowed to help a customer unless it's in an approved manner. You cannot reason with them.This is 'the Apple way', they are all about controlling the user experience and making everything consistent, which is both good and bad.

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:09:27 am
content: Quote from: Deepak on March 16, 2019, 04:25:33 amThe answer is no.The OP is simply looking for validation of his pre-determined answer. Hence why he becomes argumentative with any poster that disagrees with him.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:27:13 am
content: Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on March 16, 2019, 11:09:27 amWhy should he if he's sure? It's his own phone for gods sake.

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:12:03 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on March 16, 2019, 11:27:13 amThen why waste everyone's time w/ this thread, if he's so certain.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 12:35:50 pm
content: - Sorry Sir, we have a policy of not repairing phones where the humidity sticker has changed color.- But it never got wet! I know it!- The reason we decline to repair it is not because it got wet but because the humidity detector changed color. It could be due to any number of circumstances but we do not want to be held responsible for repairs done to phones with red-colored stickers.- But it never fell in the toilet! I know it! It has never been out of my own personal hands since the day I bought it! And I always kept it in a dehumidified special box!- Oh, I'm sorry. You were looking for an argument? That's the next door down the hall.Compared to:- Sorry Sir, we have a policy of not repairing phones where the tamper sticker has been removed or defaced.- But I never opened it! I know it!- The reason we decline to repair it is not because it was opened but because the tamper sticker is missing. It could be due to any number of circumstances but we do not want to be held responsible for repairs done to phones with removed stickers. That is our policy.- But I never opened it! I know it! It has never been out of my own personal hands since the day I bought it! Maybe the sticker fell off when my toddler put the phone in his mouth! But I never once opened the phone!- Yeah, that might explain the humidity detector going off too. To be honest my BS detector is also going off right now. But if you were looking for an argument you're in the wrong sketch.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 05:08:02 pm
content: Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on March 16, 2019, 11:09:27 amI ask you not to put words in my mouth. I'm asking for your opinions and weighing them to test my own perception. That doesn't mean I'm required to accept your opinion without question. I'm asking for what people see when their observations seem to be different to my own, conceding that my perception is inevitably coloured by my interests. That's probably about as realistic and nuanced as it's going to get.As the thread title says, the help of people who've contributed in meaningful ways is definitely appreciated.

author: vtwin@cox.net
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 06:13:41 pm
content: Thank you for proving my point.