Are desktop Negative-Ion Generators worth it for ESD? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Bobertsawesome
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 05:24:54 am
content: There are some companies that sell them for outrageous prices, and they are simply just bare bone air purifiers with carbon filters for filtering dust.I've been thinking about buying a cheap ionizer for the workbench and adding a filter to it myself for dust. I guess my main question is, do these devices really help by keeping down static charges? My lab is simply just an ESD Mat grounded to earth and an ESD Wrist Strap as far as static-dissipation goes. I will be doing some floor coating soon to dampen ESD buildup over my work floor. I think I read where unless everything is ESD safe these could cause static buildups?Lots of conflicting information (or none at all) over the internet on its effects or benefits. Just wanted to see if anyone here had some knowledge on the matter.Thanks,Bobby.

author: GadgetBoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 06:09:07 am
content: Ionizers *generate* esd.Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:39:02 am
content: A wrist strap an mat are all you need for general work. An ionizer will charge up anything not grounded to thousands of volts just ready to be zapped when you touch it.

author: Mario87
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:49:51 am
content: The proper systems you are thinking off are not your basic ioniser. We had someone come in to lecture about ESD at my last place of work. He did mention installing these proper de-ionising / ESD machines and said they DO work...HOWEVER they release both +'ve & -'ve ions to cancel each other out and keep risk of ESD at zero. One problem with these he mentioned was that if one of them fails then you will be pumping the work area with LOTS of +'ve or -'ve ions with nothing to cancel it out and it WILL cause massive volumes of ESD and kill most things in the work area when someone goes to pick them up.These things are expensive for a reason. They are not just air purifiers with carbon filters, they need to keep +'ve & -'ve ions perfectly in balance. In all his years of working he has only had to resort to using them in 1 factory.For you, me and 99.9999999% of people who work at home, a standard ESD strap & mat are all that is needed.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:51:32 am
content: Quote from: GadgetBoy on August 23, 2018, 06:09:07 amActually quite the opposite. Properly designed Ionizers are used on production lines toreduceESD problems. Injecting Ions into the air makes it more conductive and allows charges to leak away.Edit: As others have said, completely unnecessary for a personal workstation - stick with a strap, mat and antistatic floor treatment (spray available).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 12:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 23, 2018, 10:51:32 amThe anti-static floor treatment probably isn't even necessary in most situations.For example, my lab is carpet and the mat & strap are sufficient (I do have acontinuous ESD monitorto verify). I do strap in first before touching any boards or parts though.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 12:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: Mario87 on August 23, 2018, 10:49:51 amIs there a teardown of one of those gadgets? Are they as simple as a high voltage transformer connected to some needles or does it have to somehow sense the static level of the air and adjust its output to cancel it out?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 03:38:52 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 23, 2018, 12:37:26 pmHVT and needles is all it takes to create +ve and -ve (balanced) ions... yup i dismantled and repaired one of those HVT and needles technology...

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 05:01:57 pm
content: The anti-static ionizers I've seen have a zero adjust control to insure they don't charge anything up (or down?).

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 06:12:30 pm
content: Industrial de-ionizers use high voltage AC at the electrodes to neutralize air charge.Negative ion generators use HV -DC at the needles and are really bad for ESD, as everything nearby gets charged up. Don't run one anywhere near static-sensitive parts on a bench.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 04:52:27 pm
content: Exactly. The reason AC ionizers are used is that having lots of both polarity ions in the air allows charges to bleed off. High humidity does that too but is undesirable for other reasons.(tin whiskers are one.)

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 07:24:09 pm
content: I find I hardly have static in my house, maybe hardwood floors help? In winter I also run a humidifier. Otherwise humidity drops to near 0 and the floor planks make lot of cracking noise. Either way I do ensure to touch grounded objects often if working on anything sensitive.I do get static shocks on my cat though. Huge blue sparks when I pet her, and she seems unphased. Always makes me laugh. There's a joke about CAT rating in there somewhere.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 11:18:52 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 24, 2018, 07:24:09 pmGuess it depends on the cat. My blue tabby complains bitterly from the static shock.