Aneng AN860B Multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 11:55:50 pm
content: For a $25 meter (including shipping from China), this is a pretty nice meter:http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANG860B-Digital-Multimeter-Backlight-Auto-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Ohm-Portable-Meter-/282298159352Now, right off the bat, I am talking about a low voltage bench meter. I have no idea how well it handles mains voltage nor any interest in the question. It's for electronics...Against my DMMCheck Plus:Standard 5.0000V DC reads 5.000V DC - close enough for government workStandard 4.9989V AC reads 4.965 V AC - at 100 HzStandard 100.04042 Hz reads 100.0 HzStandard 10.000409 kHz reads 10.000 kHzStandard 100.067 kOhm reads 100.0 kOhmStandard 10.0021 kOhm reads 10.00 lOhmStandard 1.00005 kOhm reads 1.001 kOhmStandard 100.014 Ohm reads 100.2 OhmStandard 1.0006 mA DC reads 1.00 mA DC or 1000 uA DCstandard 1.0006 mA AC reads 0.999 mA AC 994 uA AC - a bit off here...It does have the CE mark and states it is compliant with 1000V Cat III and 600V Cat IV. I have no way to know if this is correct but there are problems when caught misleading the EU re: CE mark.This is a pretty nice multimeter. It certainly meets my accuracy needs for a handheld. It won't measure up to my Fluke 189 but it has a place on my bench.When we get the inevitable "which cheap DMM to buy?" question, I'm going to point to this. Accuracy is phenomenal for an inexpensive meter.13 days for delivery...

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 12:13:50 am
content: What's it like inside? Looks it has a rubber boot so that's a good start.What fuses?Diode test voltage enough for leds?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 04:36:04 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 12:13:50 amI didn't plan to do a teardown. I think it has been done elsewhere.QuoteIt's my understanding they are glass. Hence the statement that I would only recommend it for low voltage electronics. Low voltage is defined (elsewhere) as 50V or less.QuoteI'll look into it tomorrow.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 04:43:02 am
content: This may sounds crazy but USD 25 is quite expensivehttps://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Digital-Multimeter-6000-Counts-Backlight-AC-DC-Meter-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Y103/32796259800.html?spm=2114.02020208.3.66.Qsj8p7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10056_10055_10054_302_10059_124_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10126_6000000_10124-10102,searchweb201603_2,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5_ppcChannel,single_sort_0_default&btsid=31a7df4c-5cf1-47a2-b8b6-405458732b95&algo_expid=9e44423c-44b4-4c48-b899-9c5704911eaf-7&algo_pvid=9e44423c-44b4-4c48-b899-9c5704911eaf

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:19:17 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 14, 2017, 04:36:04 amHave to nitpick that. No it's not generally.Under 50VAC or 120VDC isELV - Extra Low Voltage.Low voltage is 50-1000VAC, 120-1500VDCHigh voltage is above that.Of course, regulations vary by country, but generally speaking they will be around those points.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:20:34 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on March 14, 2017, 04:43:02 amThat is a different meter. The one mentioned here is about 23US at Aliexpress.

author: crazyguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:25:36 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 12:13:50 amGoogle "Zotek VC17B+", Aneng AN860B is a rebranded DMMThis russian thread discuss about DTM0660 chipset based DMMhttp://kazus.ru/forums/showthread.php?t=112135&page=109teardown in Chinesehttp://bbs.mydigit.cn/read.php?tid=2016475

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:29:40 am
content: Quote from: crazyguy on March 14, 2017, 05:25:36 amThat is a different meter.The AN860B+ we are discussing here is 4 input, 20A max current range, and has a different case style. So can not draw conclusions from teardowns of the 101 (which is probably branded as AN8001 for Aneng, or RM101 for Richmeter)

author: crazyguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:33:58 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 05:29:40 amI already updated the links, thanks

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:38:07 am
content: Ahh, I knew I'd seen this before.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:45:48 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 05:19:17 amLike most things, it depends on which standard you care about. I worked with the National Electric Code for nearly 40 years, The NEC isn't terribly consistent but 30VAC RMS or 60VDC and less than or equal to 1000 VA is one of the 'low voltage' definitions.http://www.electrician2.com/weltrain05/lpage103.htmlUtiliies generally consider 600VC and lower as low voltage, medium voltage may be up to 35kV.In my case, I won't be using the meter on anything over 30V.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 06:20:44 am
content: As above joe did his torture tests on (a different branded version of) this meter.I think to summarise, calling it 20A seems a bit bogus, they should have just marked it 10A like the silkscreen and warning alarm intended :-/It has some problems with frequency measurement, and a bug when switching from DC to AC.It failed at 4kV transient with 2 Ohm source impedance, which isn't bad in the scheme of things (but of course, I do not think that meetsthe Cat ratings- but I think at this point everybody knows a meter from china is not going to meet it's cat ratings)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 10:45:22 am
content: Don't confuse CAT ratings and the 'ruggedness' torture tests that Joe is doing.That said, as it is fitted with 250V glass fuses, it is enough to know that it doesn't meet the current European EN61010 CAT rating, as printed on the meter.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 11:25:38 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on March 14, 2017, 10:45:22 amI was only going on the impulse voltage table on the wikipedia page (also available some other places), by my reading to meet the CAT IV 600V, it would have to have stood up to a transient of 8kV at the 2 Ohm source impedance joe was using, while this meter was killed at 4kV.But I'm sure are there are countless other violations which invalidate it's CAT ratings as you point out.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 11:36:31 am
content: If the meter failed while the selector was positionedon voltage, then there is a good probability that it doesn't meet its basic CAT rating.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 11:49:45 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on March 14, 2017, 11:36:31 amIt was in volts (AC) mode with 4KV transient (https://youtu.be/4PjmFqzlfLc?t=38m58s)Edit: although to be fair, the failure at 4kV was not likely to cause the operator injury (directly), and no higher tests were conducted up to the 8kV rating - I don't think the meter has to be operable after the test does it, just that it doesn't injure the operator in the process if it does fail. Of course, I would fully expect anybody to drop that meter and potentially need to change their undies if an 8kV transient went through it while they were holding it.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 12:44:12 pm
content: The meter has to be fully functional after the voltage transient test, otherwise it becomes a serious threat to the user, who may think that no dangerous voltage is present, once readings are compromised.There would also be no way to distinguish between a CAT III and a CAT IV meter, for instance.Other selections are protected by the PTC and may fail, as long as there is no potential injury to the user.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 02:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 14, 2017, 04:36:04 amOpen circuit diode test voltage is 3.35V and drops to 1.84V when testing a conventional green LED @ 0.8 mA. This is sufficient to light up the LED.The EEVblog meter measures the LED Vf but only sources 154 uA so the LED doesn't light up. Is that right?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 11:25:38 amQuote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 11:49:45 amHad I ran the meter at 8KV or 15KV, it would be rare any testing I show would result in a meter failing to the level where it would cause an operator injury. Of course, I've posted that what 50 times now. The energy is sub 20 Joules.With the half cycle simulator, there was some amount of damage to the PCB but I don't call it a half cycle simulator for the fun of it. If the meter breaks down from a high voltage event (like this meter did at 4KV) then the half cycle generator feeds about a half AC line cycle of energy into the meter. It's not much but does give viewers some idea of how much damage just a little energy could cause. But it is no where close to the real IEC safety tests!Sorry for repeating myself again for those of you who understand this.That said, the fact the this meter needs a zero cross to measure frequency (no good for digital or requires a block), has the problem switching between modes, glass fuses, crap connectors is bad enough. Personally, when I think bench meter, I am thinking low end is my 34401A. Great meter. Really like it. Replacing that with a handheld is more what I am after in a portable bench meter. But my hobbies are going to be different than others. If you don't need anything more than the KT6000 and it's few shortcomings, good deal. Same for the free HF meter.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 09:31:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 14, 2017, 05:11:48 pmEven used on eBay, 34401A is 18x the cost of the AN860B. The Aneng topic was aimed strictly at 'no budget' entry level meters. We could expand the discussion to include my Fluke 189 as a handheld meter but not a lot of newcomers want to put out that much money for their first multimeter (that, and it's out of production).The EEVblog meter seems to have some quirks when measuring frequency as well. First of all, the ACV reading has to be correctly scaled and then, maybe, it will read frequency if it isn't too fast. But you're right, the AN860B doesn't do frequency counting without a zero crossing.

author: BroMarduk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 10:29:32 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 14, 2017, 02:30:05 pmLED/Diode Test @ 21 degrees Celsius. Forward Voltages on LEDs, Reverse Voltage on ZenerMeter|Red|Green|Yellow|Blue|White|3.6V Zener|Fluke 289|1.7971V DC|1.8889V DC|1.8757V DC|2.6365V DC|2.6352V DC|2.6987V DC|Fluke 115|1.732V DC|1.830V DC|1.823V DC|Lit - OL|Lit - OL|OL|Fluke 17B+|1.726V DC|1.823V DC|1.819V DC|Lit - OL|Lit - OL|OL|Fluke 107|1.690V DC|1.794V DC|1.787V DC|Lit - OL|Lit - OL|1.989V DC|UNI-T UT211B|1.744V DC|1.867V DC|1.857V DC|2.575V DC|2.582V DC|2.399V DC|UNI-T UT216C|1.783V DC|1.873V DC|1.863V DC|2.84V DC|2.88V DC|2.452V DC|EnnoLogic eM860T|1.797V DC|1.883V DC|1.875V DC|2.595V DC|2.600V DC|2.513V DC|Vici VC99|1.737V DC|1.825V DC|1.824V DC|Lit - OL|Lit - OL|OL|Mastech MS8211D|Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|OL|Etekcity MSR-P600|Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|Not Lit - OL|OL|Aneng AN860B+|1.782V DC|1.873V DC|1.865V DC|2.584V DC|2.591V DC|2.434V DC|Aneng AN8002|1.785V DC|1.876V DC|1.866V DC|2.586V DC|2.593V DC|2.454V DC|Peak Atlas Zen 50 (2ma)|1.86V DC|1.94V DC|1.92V DC|2.73V DC|2.73V DC|3.09V DC|Peak Atlas Zen 50 (15ma)|2.07V DC|2.07V DC|2.06V DC|3.12V DC|3.10V DC|3.10V DC|

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 10:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 14, 2017, 05:11:48 pmMaybe I could make a suggestion, in your videos, in the description, put a link to where you describe your general torture tests and how that relates to CAT, or real world, why you chose those test conditions.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 12:09:38 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 14, 2017, 09:31:27 pmI get a lot of questions that basically go something like, I bought this meter, can you show me how to improve it. Sadly people often must feel cost is everything. I bought the 34401A new when it first came out. Cost of ownership has been next to nothing. And again, not suggesting that people run out and buy one only that this is what I consider a basic bench meter and it has served me very well over the years. I bring up the HF free meters because in some cases, they may be good enough. They are better than what I started out with.I saw that same problem with the KT6000. Good luck getting even a MHz out of the counter in volts mode. Best to stick with the mV setting. Then again the HF meter can't measure frequency. For the $20 to $50 cost of the KT6000, hands down I would take the 61E. And I am no fan boy when it comes to UNI-T!Yea, I'm sure I would damage it sooner or later but it's more in line with what I want on the bench. In the garage or light electrical, I still like the 101 and that UT210E.Quote from: sleemanj on March 14, 2017, 10:58:05 pmThere is a FAQ linked right off the main page in both the about and discussions area but I doubt people read it. There is also the large thread that details much of it, but again I doubt many people read it. I have made specific videos about the tests as well but the hits are low. People just like thinking it has something to do with safety.These Q/As are from the FAQ(questions supplied by viewers):Q) Are the meters that fail your tests unsafe? They all fail in a safe manner and although non-functional it presented no safety risk in that failed condition.A) I have no idea if any of the meters I have looked at would fail in a safe manner or not if tested to the IEC standards. If you want to know if a meter is safe or not, have it tested by an accredited lab or buy one that has been certified by a third party.I loosely based my testing on the IEC standards. The tests I perform are at much lower energy levels than the meters what these standards call out. This is why we never see the explosions like you would when watching some of Fluke's internal testing. I don't expect the general hobbyist is going to know about CAT ratings or the IEC standards.Q) How extreme are the tests you perform?A) Compared with the IEC standards they would normally be tested against to be certified not very. The energy levels I use are much less than what is called out.Q) These test are irrelevant over what is rated, is like you smash a car at 2 mach and say "ehh car not good, unsafe, bla bla" whats the point of using a meter over the rated point???A) Cars are subjected to some pretty harsh testing as well to insure the safety of the passengers. Most of us don't drive our cars head on into concrete like the test dummies. Maybe read the IEC standards or just do some simple Google searches on surge testing and what you are going to find out is the tests I show are a joke. Not that they are as harsh as you make them out to be, but rather that they no where near as harsh as the real tests are. And again, if I were interested in considering how safe a meter was, I would be testing differently but I'm only concerned with the robustness of the meter's front end.Q) I don't understand the point of testing these meters beyond their specifications. It says right on the front of the Brymen: "1000v" with CAT IV; why go beyond this?You NEED that high voltage probe you showed in another video if you even suspect transients are above spec limits -- unless you are as brief as, say, an ESD pulse.A) The ESD pulse is going to be measured in ns. I do run a sort of ESD test on these meters using a Piezo gas grill starter. While the IEC standards call for a 50us FWHH, I have been running all of the low voltage (< 6KV) with a 100us FWHH. The higher transients are now running with a 50us FWHH. This would allow someone to repeat these tests. Keep in mind that combo generator's designed for the IEC standards will have a different current waveform. The generator I built is limited to around 20 joules. The majority of the testing is below 10 joules! Now where near the real IEC. If you want to see some real damage, watch some of Fluke’s surge test videos. While the meter is marked CAT IV 1000 this calls for a 12KV, 1.2/50 us surge with a 2 ohm source. Granted, Brymen told me they expected the meter would be damaged when I ran the 6KV transient. I was impressed when it survived. Using the high voltage probe does not make a lot of sense. None of the ones I show, including my home made ones are rated for high energy applications.Q) What is the point of applying 5kV to a meter which is rated for 600VA) You are correct that the manual for the UT139C states the "Maximum input voltage: 600 Vrms". To be clear, Vrms would be the same for both AC and DC but not at all for the waveforms I apply during these tests. The part you appear to not understand is that many of these meters are specified to meet a certain IEC standard. In the case of the UT139C, the manual states "Safety Standard" IEC/EN 61010-1: CATIII600V" This is the first version of the standard and has a maximum of 6000 Volts using a 2 ohm source impedance. The waveshapes (open/shorted) are called out in the standard along with the five +/- transients. Now all that said, I am not testing to this standard. The width of the pulse being applied is double for the 6KV and less tests. The other major difference is I limit the energy available to the meter for safety reasons. Typically this has been less than 10 Joules but I have ran some near 20 Joules. The reason for the tests is simple, to find which meters are more robust electrically than others. This is why they are all tested to failure (for the most part).Q) Well, did you ever tried to develop something and pass EMC tests?I guess no. Do you know how surge protection components work? I guess you have no idea. The energy of surge pulse is enormous. The way you are testing is nonsense. The standard is defining sequence of pulses to simulate possible real situation. It means that after each applying of this pulse sequence is required to let device protection circuits cool down (if standard does not say to repeat twice etc.). Otherwise you will face situation, that circuits must be 10-20 times stronger than necessary. You are simply destroying them by heat accumulated by quick repetition of test sequences. There is no time to even transfer accumulated energy from chip to package. And this is exactly what you are doing. So remove all multimeters from trash and start again please. I do not say that multimeter which survived your handling is bad. But it does not mean that others are not fulfilling standards. They are just not so "idiot resistant".A) It seems you do not comprehend what is going on so once again, let me attempt to explain. Let's start with some basics. The EMC standard is different from the safety standard. The EMC standard is 61326. The safety standard is 61010. Your comments are about surge, so I'll assume this is just a mistake on your part. You are correct, the energy in a combo generator that would normally be used for the 61010 is pretty high. Consider that this is just the energy available. It's not the energy that will normally be dissipated by the device being tested. Next consider that my generator is not a combo. I have made this clear from day one. It has NEVER been my goal to look at the meters from a safety standpoint. So while my generators may closely replicate the open circuit waveforms from 61010, they are no where near what the short circuit case calls for. Again, I've explained the reasons for this several times and it should not need repeating. Consider that most meters have failed with much less than 10J applied! While testing the first batch of meters, I did not have 10J available until the finals where the Fluke 101 finally came out on top. Many of the meters are damaged before I get to the surge test. They are just that bad. In the case of the 87V, I agree that I would have never expected it to fail at such low levels. By far it was the worst of the Flukes I have looked at.?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 12:22:56 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 15, 2017, 12:09:38 amThe description of the video, it has no such link.People are not going to want to go digging for such information(*), you should link your FAQ, and any associated explanatory videos in the description of each video when you upload it.* I didn't really even know therewasan "About" page, I don't think I've ever read an About page on Youtube (or a "Discussions" page about the channel rather than just on each video), but now you draw my attention to it I see there is. I would NEVER have looked there for more information otherwise.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 01:44:30 am
content: Right, I have put the link in from time to time and also it gets sprinkled into the comments. Of course the main threads been running for a few years now. But new people like yourself I suspect discover it and get confused. It's easy enough to add all the links for every video posted. I may go back and edit them all now that everything is in googledocs.The question I have now is if YOU took the time to read it and if so, do you understand why this has nothing to do with safety?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 02:11:58 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 15, 2017, 01:44:30 amYes I sure did read your FAQ once you pointed it out.I don't follow your main thread here although I knew it existed in the back of my mind, I could have gone and found it, if I'd been motivated to do so, but yeah, a lot of people I'm sure just search [meter model number here], find your video on youtube and...Quote from: joeqsmith on March 15, 2017, 01:44:30 amWell. I think it's clear your testing is not presently intended to provide commentary on the safety of meters or how they meet or not the CAT (safety) ratings, but still, I think that perhaps your tests by nature can give that impression.If your tests show that the meter does not gracefully handle a lesser level of abuse than the CAT it is marked with appears to necessitate, then you have shown that it can not meet that rating.If this means it is unsafe to use the meter within the bounds of that rating because it does not meet the requirements thereof... is a different question, but people could I think reasonably draw the conclusion, that the CAT rating printed on the meter should definitely not be used to determine the answer.Of course, we all know this already cat ratings printed on meters from china are worth less than the ink they were printed with, but that doesn't (necessarily) mean they are unsafe or not robust enough to use in "typical" hobbiest situations. I have no hesitation in using my own collection of cheap-chinese-meters.Anyway, I'm not sure where I was going with this now, kinda got lost along the way, in short, stick some links in your video descriptions, people might ask less repetitive questions of you then :-)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 02:58:24 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 15, 2017, 02:11:58 amWhy? Because I supply the voltage waveform? What if I made that with a 0.001pf cap? Would you still have that impression?Quote from: sleemanj on March 15, 2017, 02:11:58 amI see that posted from time to time but again, I don't know if that is a true statement. I've mentioned that I have asked some of the large companies if the meters need to survive the IEC surge test and have heard different answers. I think we would all agree seeing sparks come out of a meter at these low levels does not build a lot of confidence.Quote from: sleemanj on March 15, 2017, 02:11:58 amSome of the most robust meters I have looked at came out of China and some of these have been certified. I don't really understand the blanket comments like these. For sure if you need the safety standards, get one that has been certified.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 03:00:43 am
content: Sorry for the hijacking OP. Back to the AN860B..

author: vasco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 20, 2017, 12:45:47 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 15, 2017, 03:00:43 amIs there any internal difference between the Zotek VC17B+ and the Aneng AN860B+ ?All that I find is that the Zotek is about 10US$ more expensive.

author: Deepwinter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 08:12:00 am
content: Would this or the AN8008 be a more useful meter for a first time meter for a newbie hobbyist.Appreciate any advice so many options its hard to know which to get.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2017, 10:42:15 am
content: Quote from: Deepwinter on October 04, 2017, 08:12:00 amI've got both and I say 860B+ is a much better first meter.