Rigol DS1104Z 4-channel 100MHz DSO - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 01:38:54 pm
content: My new DS1104Z arrived yesterday! Unfortunately I haven't had much time to play around with it yet but I thought I would at least snap a quick picture (with just random noise signal from the probe dangling in the air) so people can see the real thing in the fleshI will try to update this thread with more pictures and screen captures etc as time allows.I don't know much about testing these things so if anyone has any simple test ideas that'd be great. I don't have a lot of fancy equipment but I do now own a Rigol DG1022U function generator which should help.I ordered his directly from China and I reckon this oscilloscope might still be at least a few months away from being ready for other markets, because in the CD that comes with it there isn't even a full English manual yet. There's the quick guide in both Chinese and English, but the full user manual is only available in Chinese.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:12:15 pm
content: Wow, thanks for posting this (and the other pictures to come) - it really looks impressive; one thing that jumped at me is the number of soft buttons and their consistent arrangement on the side of the screens (I am not a big fan of soft buttons on the bottom), although I find the shapes that surround the various controls a bit fuzzy to my eye...Regarding the user's manual only in Chinese - oh well, throughout my life I had to learn English to read the manuals of various appliances and equipment, thus this is just a shift in the world's order...

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:16:49 pm
content: One thing you could try at some point is whether the license code LLLLLLL-RLGLLDS-DSA9LLL-LLLLLLL gives you the full options (as it seems to do on all of the other DS series scopes).

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:19:43 pm
content: Try an AM signal to check the color gradation.Well, the yellow trace looks weird like if it was a digital magnification only... Like on my DSOX2002A .Maybe you should have ordered the scope with signal generator.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:23:27 pm
content: Where do you enter a license code? I don't have the scope with me at the moment but I could try when I get back to my lab tomorrow. I don't recall seeing an option to enter any code while I went through the menu items though.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on July 03, 2013, 02:19:43 pmI'll try to do some proper screen captures tomorrow. I didn't buy the -S version with the function gen because I just got the DG1022U and I didn't think I would need so many signal sources.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:34:05 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 03, 2013, 02:23:27 pmThere are options for it, right? If it's the same as the DS2000, it's under Utility -> Options -> Setup. But if you have Trial Minutes, don't use it until they run out (since it will zero the counters). BTW, if there's a blinking up/down arrow on the screen, it means you can use the up or down arrow for more menu choices.About the layout: it generally looks pretty good, although I wonder about the decision to put the up/down menu buttons on the left side together under the menu buttons, but on the right side both above and below the menu buttons. Give some feedback about how that works for you - if you find yourself reaching for the wrong place on either side of the screen, or whether you get used to it.BTW, I don't see a Decode button - but it does have the possibility of bus decoding, right? Perhaps it's just a menu elsewhere.

author: KuchateK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:47:47 pm
content: Where did you order it and how much did you pay? How long did you have to wait for it?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on July 03, 2013, 02:34:05 pmYes, there are options. In fact, I ordered the option for recording waveforms when I placed my order, still waiting for that code to be sent to me though. I'm hoping that your "universal" code won't work so I don't feel so stupid...LOL!QuoteDuring the limited time I spent on it I didn't have too much problem with those arrow keys. But I guess I'll have a better feel as I use it more. BTW, I find the menu on the left really handy for turning on measurement displays (does the DS2000 have this too?), but it's a bit silly that they don't let you turn a measurement off by pushing the same button again! You have to go the the "measure" menu on the right to turn them off. Why?!QuoteYes, bus decoding is another available option for purchase. I assume it will open up some additional menu items, I'm not sure.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 03:06:20 pm
content: Quote from: KuchateK on July 03, 2013, 02:47:47 pmI ordered it directly from one of their distributors in Beijing, China. The scope itself costs about $670 shipped. I ordered the waveform recording option for another $160 or so. It was in stock so apart from the few days of shipping time it took there wasn't any wait.I don't know how they are going to price them in other markets, but based on the other Rigol products for sale in China their pricing in China doesn't differ much from other markets. Actually a lot of the times their Chinese prices are HIGHER than the US prices!

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 05:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 03, 2013, 02:56:21 pmWell, it never hurts to have the official code - since the 'universal' code has to be entered every time you boot up. But I DO think the code will work - since it works on the DS2000/DS4000 - and the DSO you have was definitely manufactured before the code was leaked.QuoteYes - same setup - although the DS2000 has a 'Menu' button above and 'Up/Down Arrow' buttons below each side of the screen.QuoteI'm just wondering how they will deal with that and the waveform recording in the FW - since you're missing the dedicated buttons and knob that are on the DS2000

author: nack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 10:13:25 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 03, 2013, 03:06:20 pmDoes their distributor has an online website or something similar for us to have a look at? I'm looking forward to some more images from the unit. Looks really nice.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 10:32:28 pm
content: Yes, here.http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DS1000Z/

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 05:33:52 am
content: A few more screen captures.1. The probe picking up some 50Hz or so noise (at 1mV per division) while not connected to anything.2. AM waveform to demonstrate the 64-level intensity grading.3. 1MHz sine and 1MHz square waves with the "measure all" display on.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 10:02:16 am
content: Sorry to say, but I think it's unlikely they're doing 64-level intensity grading. It appears they've reduced it from the DS2000/DS4000 series - perhaps to 32 levels maximum. I looked through the DS1000Z data sheet, and unlike the DS2000 datasheet which specifically mentions up to 256 levels of intensity in a couple of places, Rigol appears to have done something similar to GW-Instek (with the GDS-2000A datasheet) in that they don't mention ANYWHERE how many levels of grading the DS1000Z can do. Judging by your images, I can't say I'm much of a fan of what they've done with it.Not a big fan of the changes to the screen design/colors either; I prefer the more subtle shading on the DS2000. I wonder if it's linked to the maximum amount of simultaneous colors they're using.You should check how the intensity grading is functioning by sending the same AM signal into all 4 inputs simultaneously (or just using the 50Hz noise), making a screen capture, then counting colors in Photoshop (or similar) - as in the attached image.Also, for the benefit of others, you might consider using a frequency counter on the Trigger Out and making a quick table of the waveform update rates (similar to the following from the DS2000):

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 10:55:44 am
content: I forgot where I read the 64-level claim from and I can't seem to find it now. But Rigol has some better picture on their web site which look better than the ones I captured:http://www.rigol.com/upload/13-04/22/VIDEO_CN.bmphttp://www.rigol.com/upload/13-05/07/1367903565.jpghttp://www.rigol.com/upload/13-05/07/1367903544.jpgI'll try to play around with the settings and see if I can do something better tomorrow. Will also try the trigger out.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 11:04:17 am
content: And BTW, I didn't expect this scope to match the performance of the DS2000 series. I bought it mainly because of the 4 channels. I was expecting performance and features in between the 1000E and 2000 series.The waveform recording and playback feature is also no match for the DS2000. This one only offers the basic recording and playback functions, no advanced analysis sort of stuff.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 11:31:06 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 04, 2013, 10:55:44 amYes, but pictures can 'lie' (or be chosen very specifically) - specs are (supposedly) the final word. And you have to imagine, they might have changed the specifications in-between those screenshots and the final product. I checked your images and the linked BMP (you can't check JPGs - they're compressed - only BMP or PNG), and the max. colors (levels) I've seen so far has been 36.Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 04, 2013, 11:04:17 amI understand - it's not a 'real' criticism of the DSO - and definitely not one of you.It makes market sense if Rigol tones down some of the capabilities of the DS2000 series; it's still a great deal for 4-channels.Edit:BTW, all of my interest (and request for definitive data) is just to broaden the amount of 'public' information available about the DSO - beyond what Rigol releases in the specifications (such as wfrm/s rates when using three or four channels). I absolutely think it's a great new product.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 01:12:29 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on July 04, 2013, 10:02:16 amMy DSOX2002A has only 64 levels of intensity grading.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on July 04, 2013, 10:02:16 amWent back to the lab this evening and captured the attached screenshots. First one is a noise signal generated by by FG with only 1 channel turned on. I counted 38 (37 excluding the grey grid) colours in the waveform area. Second one has all 4 channels turned on, first 2 channels is the same noise signal from the FG, and channel 3 and 4 are just noise picked up by the probes. I counted 83 (82 excluding grid) colours.QuoteAm I suppose to feed a signal into the scope while doing this? What about triggering? I couldn't seem to get any repeatable readings as soon as I started fiddling with the vertical settings or the trigger or the signal source. What the screen is displaying (size of waveform, etc) seems to have an impact on the frequency I'm reading from the Trigger Out. Note that I don't have a proper frequency counter, I was only using a couple of different multimeters, and also tried the counter on the DG1022U function gen.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 04:14:53 pm
content: It looks nice.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 05:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 04, 2013, 03:48:48 pmThat would be 36 (you forgot to subtract black background color) - same as I counted in the other images. That appears as if it might be close to the maximum levels with a single channel on - perhaps 48 levels in total?QuoteHard to tell what the maximum levels are with multiple channels on since the image is perhaps not the broadest range possible per channel.QuoteA 1MHz sine wave would be best - edge-triggered - and you can use a multimeter as frequency counter if that's what you've got (I use my Fluke 87III). You want to use the shortest memory depth setting (perhaps AUTO - I'm not sure how that functions exactly on the DS1000Z) - and no other functions or measurements running. Then you can test 1, 2, 3, or 4 channels running - vectors/dots - at each time base. The numbers will fluctuate sometimes (if so, just notice the general average) and sometimes they will be rock stable (usually when in dots mode). According to the data sheet, you should get ~30,000 wfrm/s with a single-channel, dots mode, AUTO memory depth, at the 50ns/div setting. You could see what happens with the 50ns/div wfrm/s rate when you turn on Vectors - or more of the channels.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2013, 02:51:26 am
content: Quote from: marmad on July 04, 2013, 05:30:29 pmI intentionally keep the black in the count as black would have been one of the intensity levels, right? It represents level zero.QuoteWill try this and report back.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2013, 03:00:14 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 04, 2013, 11:04:17 amI agree with this - I think the 1000Z is quite an interesting scope because it is a 4 channel scope that is entry level which unless someone knows of another one is a first at this price point. It may not have 2000 performance, but it does have a lot of features that make it much closer to the 2000 series than the older 1000 series for sure.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2013, 01:09:56 pm
content: http://www.eu.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000b/ds1204b/TheDS1204Bis obsolete, but it has1GSa/sper each channel. DS1000Z has only 250MSa/s per channel.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 12:59:21 pm
content: Didn't have a lot of time to do my own things in the last couple of days and only managed to record the following single-channel waveform update rates from the trigger out using a Brymen multmeter. A 1MHz 5Vp-p sine wave was fed into channel 1, memory depth set to AUTO, display in Vector mode. The numbers are mostly averages as the readings did jump around a little bit. I'll try to record more data when I have more time.5ns: 19,10010ns: 24,10020ns: 16,00050ns: 34,300100ns: 20,900200ns: 11,500500ns: 4,8501us: 2,4902us: 1,2605us: 51010us: 25520us: 23850us: 175100us: 96200us: 50.5

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 01:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 06, 2013, 12:59:21 pmThanks for taking the time for this. I would tend to think that your numbers are a bit on the high side (for whatever reason) - since Rigol specifies ~30k wfrm/s in DOT mode @ 50ns/div - and DSO manufacturers generally tend NOT tolowertheir specifications.But in any case, it gives an overview of the basic speeds - and they look good.Just curious how it handles 2 and 4 channels simultaneously. BTW, to test this, you don't need a signal into those channels - they just need to be turned on - while continuing to send the 1MHz signal into the triggering channel.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 01:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on July 06, 2013, 01:11:51 pmI will try to do the tests again when I have the time as there has been some weird problems from time to time with this scope. For whatever reason there was this one time the waveform update rate actually dropped to 50Hz on all time bases on Channel 1 (other channels seemed ok). It was very obvious something was wrong that time even without taking the measurement because even the waveform shown on screen looked very different. A self cal fixed the issue though.Another issue is that there seems to be always a different offset every time I turn on the scope, usually under 1mV. I don't know if it's because the lab gets rather warm when I'm not there (air conditioner turned off), or that because it's located in an industrial building and so the environment is "noisy" in many different ways or what, but it bugs me a bit.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 01:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 06, 2013, 01:26:22 pmOne thing you can do to avoid the use of an external frequency counter is to feed the Trigger Out back into a different channel (e.g. channel 2) and use the DSOs built-in frequency counter. This will work perfectly fine for measuring waveform update rates for 2, 3, or 4 channels on (you just can't use this technique for wfrm/s for a single channel obviously).QuoteLet Rigol know about it. You have to assume that this period (pre-Western sales) is when they're trying to get rid of any lingering bugs big enough to interfere with day-to-day usage.

author: crt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2013, 09:42:58 am
content: @DS2000 userHow to hide left/right display menus ?it seem my DS1074Z can not do thatHave try DSA9 ==> Invalid License!

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2013, 10:17:32 am
content: Quote from: crt on July 29, 2013, 09:42:58 amOn the DS2000, the menus cover part of the waveform display area when they're visible, but on the DS1000Z they don't seem to - so clearly it's not so important to hide them. But what does the 'MENU' button on the left-side top do?

author: crt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2013, 12:42:04 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on July 29, 2013, 10:17:32 amOh I understandI thought it will expand when menus hidingMenus on the left side, only change Horizontal/Vertical Menus such Period/VmaxAbout trial option, Left-time decrease only when the scope power up ?because yesterday it showing 70 Hours and now it showing 68 hoursMore i play with this scope, more i like it

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2013, 05:08:08 am
content: Any more updates on the DS1104Z? More comparisons to DS2000??? Anyone try the decoder functions? Any further thoughts on the intensity grading? Thanks!

author: bob_60
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 03:46:08 pm
content: What about the fan in this unit. Is it as noisy as on the 1000E series ?/Bo

author: nuno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 05:35:43 am
content: I guess the crucial question is: when will Dave review it?

author: ted572
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:03:39 pm
content: Please, does anyone know how to access the 'extended' (all of the) DS1000Z installed Firmware information?

author: ted572
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:06:29 pm
content: Quote from: bob_60 on October 08, 2013, 03:46:08 pmNo, it is not as loud as the DS1000E's fan.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:43:12 pm
content: Really? the DS1000E is worse?Because the DS1000Z is annoyingly loud. I come from a silent fanless CRO, so maybe I do not have the right references for fan noise on a DSO, but the fan is definitely on my list to replace as soon as a dare to void the warranty sticker.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on January 30, 2014, 02:43:12 pmYes - although perhaps it's not as simple as just a decibel rating. The DS1000E had a shriller, more high-pitched whining sound - whereas my DS2000, although reasonably loud, is a much-more acceptable lower frequency-rumbling type of sound.

author: seronday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 10:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: ted572 on January 30, 2014, 02:03:39 pmYou can get more detailed information from a saved Parameters Text File.Press the Storage button, set Storage type to Param, Save to USB drive.The start of the Parameters Txt file contains some additional info.

author: ted572
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 06:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: seronday on January 30, 2014, 10:54:57 pmThank you, this did the job. Although you would think that there also must be a hidden keyboard shortcut to get the same info as in the DS2000, etc. Anyway I now have the info I was after, thanks to you.

author: Teneyes
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 05:53:36 pm
content: To DS1000z owners:Marmad is working on a new version of His Rigol Ultravision Utilities to handle all 4 channels of the DS1000Z ). Since he does not own the DSO, He'd appreciate any owners willing to be alpha/beta testers. The link for the current alpha (as well as some explanatory info)is here.