Teutonic Offshore Wind Power Blowing Cold - Britain Next? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 01:15:17 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Please see the below link about train wreck of the German/Dutch offshore wind project, due to underestimation of the difficulties of building and maintaining of these monsters 100 km offshore.http://www.economist.com/news/business/21580484-huge-offshore-energy-project-may-prove-expensive-disaster-white-elephants-seen-north-sea"Germans will end up paying heavily for a lot of useless transmission gear out at sea. Those who virtuously slapped bumper-stickers on their cars proclaiming Atomkraft? Nein Danke (Nuclear power? No thanks) may wish they hadn’t."--The article hints that Britain could soon be having similar problems."Women don't want to hear what you think. Women want to hear what they think - in a deeper voice."William Henry "Bill" Cosby1937 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 02:22:25 pm
content: We have a few windmills off the cost. But only a couple of miles. There were supposed hundreds, but Enron was building them...

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 03:09:06 pm
content: There are several large arrays of wind turbines off the Norfolk coast near where I live, whenever I go that way and see them most are at a standstill if not all due to either no demand or the wind is to high or not enough.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 03:20:00 pm
content: Alternative energy has been a huge boon to the German economy ... not because it works so well, but because subsidizing export industries works so well and alternative energy is a great way to avoid the WTO/EU and do that. Smelting plants become awfully competitive when their electricity costs next to nothing when the wind is blowing (the consumer prices are high, the averaged whole sale prices are not).Might cause some problems along the way, but it's been a win overall ... for Germany.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 04:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on September 13, 2014, 03:20:00 pmElectricity prices in Germany are among the highest in the developed world. Sufficient subsidies can make any endeavor profitable. If wind/sun energy and EV are so good they would need subsidies and crippling the competition.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 09:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 13, 2014, 04:25:56 pmNot for the big export industries.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 02:22:36 pm
content: Solar panels pay for themselves in 10 years, how ling does it take a coal station ?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 02:29:38 pm
content: The main thing which has defeated wave power up to now has been the need to tolerate the worst that the weather ever throws at the system. Why would putting wind farms in the sea be any less problematic in this regard? The British ones I've seen are in relatively sheltered waters, between Britain and the mainland. This German project seems to be in an area that is really brutal in stormy weather.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2014, 02:59:28 pm
content: Speaking as a physicist and long-time resident of Germany, the Atomausstieg was ill advised. It is a record of blind actionism.When the Chernobyl reactor blew up, the public was forcing politicians' hands - out of blind fear. Once the dust had cleared and the lion was sleeping again, Germany was on its way to bury all plans for an exit silently.Then Fukushima came along and the public was screaming again. All that did was keeping obsolete plants in operation way past their due date.No new plants can be build, but the demand doesn't magically disappear, when there's no wind or sun. Meanwhile, the owners of the old plants rejoice, as now they can run the payed-off but washed-up reactors leaglly. Until the next catastrophe somewhere else that is.Even if that weren't so and there were no old plants still in operation in Germany, many are right at the border to France and Eastern Europe (from which Germany buys some of the electricity at higher price).It's all stupid, really.Modern nuclear power plants are very save and provide the cleanest form of energy, we have to date. Disposal of nuclear waste is still a problem. Once fusion or storage for renewables is operational in more than 50 years, fission reactors are preferable to the alternatives. Good clean energy sources are clearly needed, but ignoring a good transitional solution because somebody screams loudly enough is dumb.I'm glad for the Atomausstieg though, as it created traction to fund renewable energy.QuoteIf a house is so much better than a cave, why doesn't it build itself?Quote from: zapta on September 13, 2014, 04:25:56 pmThe reason why energy prices are so high in Germany is not the subsidy of renewable energies. The reason is that the big electricity companies have a unique hold over the market and shun investments. E.g. the distribution network in Germany could use a lot of work. Much of the Engery is wasted needlessly there. But again, the operator companies don't care. Investing in infrastructure costs money. Using the old brings money and is an argument to drive the prices higher. It is a very sad thing.Free market is all fine and good, until there's no real competition or it can be suppressed.QuoteAt least we tried and learned something on the way. Briton often seems a lot more hesitant.Edit:I wrote this partly in response to one of mojo-chans posts. He/she raised valid points. I find it said to see them deleted just because of a few harmless (but annoyingly off-topic) comments about gender equality.Edit2:The Mojo situation is getting worse it seems. Could he at least face his accuser, please?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2014, 03:53:48 pm
content: Average wholesale spotprice is actually lower in Germany than in France ... this is not a fair comparison overal since all non exempted customers have to pay a renewables surcharge, but the big export industries are exempted.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2014, 05:05:16 pm
content: The low price of electricity in the NL is also due to Tennet not building the infrastructure to transport the electricity from the north of Germany (where most of the solar and wind turbines are) to the central part where the industry is located. The excess electricity gets dumped into the NL and Denmark.There are also big plans to build wind turbines in the Dutch part of the North-Sea. However for some reason the government wants to revoke the licenses which where already given out. Maybe someone woke up in The Hague and calculated how much the government has to pay for the wind turbines to be profitable.