Scientist finds UK water companies use 'magic' to find leaks - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:29:22 am
content: Quotehttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/21/uk-water-firms-admit-using-divining-rods-to-find-leaks-and-pipeshttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42070719I'm dying inside.

author: Bashstreet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:33:10 am
content: These "magic"rods work... that's why they are used.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:47:05 am
content: This thread coupled with the 5g one makes me think that there has been some sort of network routing error where threads from NaturalNews and InfoWars forums are getting mixed up with EEblog forum ones.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:56:09 am
content: Quote from: CM800 on November 23, 2017, 08:29:22 amIf you haven't already, read the comments on the Guardian CIF pages, they're astounding, despite many peer reviewed studies that say it doesn't work any better than random chance would permit, people still want to believe in pixies and magic, some of them have even suggested it's related to homeopathy.The 'scientific' studies cited by those claiming it does work are little more than collections of anecdotes or 'science can't explain everything, coincidentally a lot of the online material supporting dowsing has close links to a lot of other 'woo'.If I were a less honest person I'd suggest if one were to want to advertise free energy investment schemes, audiophool quantum alignment BS and any number of other scams designed to separate gullible fools from their money then a targeted ad on that article would yield a rich return.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 06:19:38 pm
content: We should sell them divining rods with spiritual pathway LED strips along the side.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 06:56:32 pm
content: Quote from: Bashstreet on November 23, 2017, 08:33:10 amHow?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 07:38:39 pm
content: It wouldn't be a real experiment, of course, but you could cut up a couple of coat hangers and give it a try.Should if happen to work, just giggle and forget about it. Absolutely do NOT write about your success. If it fails, you can write about that result.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 07:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 23, 2017, 06:56:32 pmNononononononono, the correct answer is 'prove it' and then they respond with a bunch of unprovable anecdotes but insist they're all true because 'it stands to reason dunnit, them scientists can't explain everyfing'

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 07:43:39 pm
content: Let see we have this schematic layout of our pipes, yes on that side of road there... Now lets play a bit with the spectators, where is my rod..

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:02:10 pm
content: Those Aussies are way ahead of you.The Australian Skeptics have done several properly controlled water dowsing tests over the years. Any keen dowser is welcome to try their hand. Success means a decent cash prize.Needless to say, no-one has ever succeeded in turning wishful thinking into cold hard cash.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:57:00 pm
content: That's nothing, just stupid lunatics. This is a serious stuff:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651Explosives dowsing devices.QuoteQuoteQuote

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 09:12:36 pm
content: Quote from: CM800 on November 23, 2017, 08:29:22 amI assume it is the same Sally Le Page...https://m.youtube.com/user/shedscienc

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 12:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on November 23, 2017, 07:43:39 pmThat's what I was thinking too. They're just putting on a show, maybe even intentionally for those who have an irrational fear of water and other technologies together...As for finding leaks... "the ground here feels a little mushy... time to make the rods cross"

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 01:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 24, 2017, 12:20:24 pmIndeed I could imagine. Something my relative would do as an old school engineer with really gnarly humor even for engineer and for him the best part would be that someone were so uptight to make a national headline from it!

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 01:35:51 pm
content: Having had a play with some it isreallyeasy to convince yourself that they work, and I think there may be some subconscious movement that causes them to cross when you know there is water. i.e. if you know where a pipe is you can walk around with the rods and they seem to work, but if you don't have that prior knowledge the effect goes away.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 01:56:25 pm
content: Quote from: richard.cs on November 24, 2017, 01:35:51 pmThe good question now would be, is it still more bogus than if you glue an electrode to your head to get the note when your subconscious logic says that here it is (latter is high-tech and scientifically more accepted [better mirror and smoke]). Someone could say that the rods are cheaper.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 03:22:31 pm
content: Dowsing is one of those tricky ones isn't it. It's not a modern 'phoolery. People have been dowsing for hundreds of years and on multiple continents.Given that the outcome would most likely result in hours of back-breaking digging (I'm thinking hidden water sources or whatever here, not pipes), any dowser who didn't come up with the goods rather better than 50% of the time would probably have ended up in the stocks, being pilloried, or worse, especially as he would most likely be charging for his services. The Darwin principle would suggest that the practice would have died a natural death long ago if it didn't achieve some degree of success.I offer no theories, or explanations...or specific beliefs. Just an observation though.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on November 24, 2017, 03:22:31 pmJust like fortune telling, seances, mediums, astrologists and all those other 'woo' practices people charge money for died out so long ago.Oh.I'd suggest that finding water isn't actually that difficult, dig deep enough and it's almost always there.Now finding electrical cables or gas pipes by dowsing would be a trick to watch, unfortunately pretty much every peer reviewed study has come to the conclusion that dowsing works no better than random chance but, like all the other 'woo' merchants, dowsers always say the tests are flawed or there's some other nebulous reason why it fails to prove dowsing works.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:07:06 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on November 24, 2017, 03:22:31 pm1. You use knowledge / experience to find a place where water likely would be. 2. Then add dowsing voodoo which does not make any difference but appears to work because of the 1st reason. Conclusion: dowsing works!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:08:11 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on November 24, 2017, 03:22:31 pmYou can't exactly claim people didn't hold ridiculous beliefs in the past. Many medical treatments made the ailments and illnesses worse, much worse sometimes, yet they persisted. We still see homeopathy today!Even if people have a larger success than pure chance divining, it's unlikely it's the actual dowsing. People may have been unwittingly reading the landscape and picking spots, unfluencing the divining rods themselves. It would be like that guy with the counting horse that turned out to be unfluenced unwittingly, except that you are the horse. It's stunning how good people are at fooling themselves.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:10:38 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 24, 2017, 04:07:06 pmand gets you a reputation of being able to find water which gains you respect and riches, can't think why people would try to create the myth...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:15:28 pm
content: Ok I surrender!I should know better than to offer 'observations' around here.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:26:56 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 24, 2017, 04:10:38 pmBecause people like to believe in all sorts of bullshit. Various religions are a great proof for that. And everyone believes his religion is the right one.

author: Bashstreet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:41:37 pm
content: There are few simple reasons why dowsing works.Water is dipolar as result of partial covalency of its hydrogen bonding.It is this effect that dowsing is based. High interfacial fields can cause a phase transition that can be detected.Is is all very simple

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:43:45 pm
content: I think with these type of thing one should separate three groups of specific users. 1. The believers with silly hats, like in that dowsing video up somewhere.2. "What the heck, lets try it out" group, with rational thinking.3. The grandparent, who play with grandchildren's.