Got my 'scope and probes today. Anything else I need? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: exit_failure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2018, 08:58:37 pm
content: So today I bought the ‘scope I was talking about before(LeCroy 9354AM, 500MHz, 2GS/s) and I kind of hit the mother lode.First of all I they only asked 25€ instead of 50€ because some of the knobs are broken off (which shouldn’t be too hard to fix) and then they gave me 4 passive Tektronix probes (2x P6131[10x, 150MHz, 10.8pF], P6149A[10x, 50MHz, 15.5pF], P6106A[10x, 250MHz, 11.2pF]) and even a LeCroy AP020 1GHz active FET probe[10x, 1.8pF] on top free of charge. I know this sounds too good to be true but they just wanted wanted to get rid of the stuff and would have thrown it away otherwise. Except for the broken off knobs (which still work) everything is in good condition and seems to work fine.I’m somewhat ecstatic right knowand to be honest I partly only wanted to share that.But this also means that I have about 150€ that I intended to spend on probes left over.The project I’m going to tackle in the coming months will have signals with 5MHz tops (8bit processor made out of discrete logic gates). Is there anything else you would suggest I get that will help me with probing my circuits properly?

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 02:24:43 am
content: Wow

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 03:13:52 am
content: 150 euro could maybe get you a second AP020

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 07:01:40 am
content: Quote from: exit_failure on June 22, 2018, 08:58:37 pmA logic analyser.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 07:38:50 am
content: A logic analyser (even a dirt cheap eBay one) is a great complement to a 'scope. You may even find it more useful for digital stuff at the times when you're only worried about the data and not the quality of the signal.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 11:43:13 am
content: Quote from: exit_failure on June 22, 2018, 08:58:37 pmQuoteI suppose you would have to expectsomeissues for the price.QuoteNow you're just boasting. (I would too.)QuoteWhat a score!

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 01:43:06 pm
content: You look to have a good Multimeter back there (a Brymen perhaps?), so you've got the basics for almost any electronics prototyping/debugging. What's your soldering station situation? My recommendation would be either an LCR meter (the DER E5000s are your best bang for buck), a logic analyzer (I highly recommend the dslogic knockoffs on eBay, bang for buck is untouchable) or a used spectrum analyzer if you have some extra cash beyond the 150 to spend (I recommend either the R&S CMU200 or the HP856x series) depending on whether you are focused on repairs, digital logic work, or RF work respectively

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 01:44:58 pm
content: With the amazing lucky streak you are having, I would suggest buying a lottery ticket!

author: exit_failure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 08:21:25 pm
content: I still can't really believe it myself but I won't complain. :-DQuote from: SMB784 on June 23, 2018, 01:43:06 pmYup, it's a BM867s. I got it from my girlfriend as a birthday present.A logic analyser seems like a very useful tool for my upcoming project.Quote from: SMB784 on June 23, 2018, 01:43:06 pmQuote from: Fred27 on June 23, 2018, 07:38:50 amYou mean something like this:eBay auction: #https://www.ebay.de/itm/New-USB-Logic-Analyzer-DSLogic-Basic-16Ch-100MHz-4Ch-400MHz-FPGA/201435318371?hash=item2ee67b0863:g:n74AAOSwkbpa4fgl? I had looked at them before but I thought that the specs they promised where too good to be true for the price.Quote from: SMB784 on June 23, 2018, 01:43:06 pmMy 9354AM apparently has all math options that were available at the time installed. Those also feature FFT based spectrum analysis.http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/9300_om_reva.pdf(appendix C, page 214 onwards) Do you think that will suffice for general purpose use?Quote from: SMB784 on June 23, 2018, 01:43:06 pmI have digital 48W soldering station. Not the best but I think I could do much worse.https://www.pollin.de/p/loetstation-daytools-ls-937-450-0c-840185I have repaired the broken knobs now. I will create a new post about the repair later on.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 09:29:23 pm
content: I was talking about the even cheaper logic analysers you see if you search for Saleae. (Obviously these are not genuine Saleae, but can be used with Sigrok software.) They are surprisingly useful if you're looking at a serial bus.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 10:53:58 pm
content: Dave has some videos on scopes including one on how not to blow it up. Find and watch this one a couple of times.There is a sticky for a scope course at the top of the Beginners forum. w2aew's videos are excellent.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 12:03:07 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on June 24, 2018, 10:53:58 pmHere:

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 03:53:40 am
content: Quote from: exit_failure on June 24, 2018, 08:21:25 pmYes that is the kind of logic analyzer I was referring to. I have one, and if you get the cheap version that only has a few kb of onboard memory you can buy the 256MB memory chip on mouser or digikey for like $0.50 and solder it in yourself. You'll save money on the device and have an incredibly effective logic analyzer to boot. That's what I did anyways.For your applications, your FFT on the scope should be fine unless you really want to get into the weeds analyzing signals with frequencies greater than 1GHz, then you'll need something like the R&S CMU200That soldering station will probably be ok; I prefer Weller or Hakko for proven reliability and quality.Good luck with your project!

author: Floopy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 04:21:43 am
content: (Drooling)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 09:23:17 am
content: Quote from: exit_failure on June 22, 2018, 08:58:37 pmThose knobs and potentiometers are a real bitch to find, you'd rather get another lecroy to scrap for partsDetails on the 7200A, which should be the same. I was able to find the manufacturer of the encoders (actually dual gang potentiometers, one gang is normal, the other is mounted rotated at 180 degrees so in the dead band of gang1 gang2 is operating and vice-versa) but the price for the kit was so high that another scope to scrap parts off is cheaper.didn't look for the rotary switches as mine were working..https://www.flickr.com/photos/151793324@N05/35596217655/in/dateposted-public/

author: exit_failure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 08:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 25, 2018, 09:23:17 amThe rotary encoders in my scope are Bourns ECW1D-Y32-BC0024 and ECW0D-Y32-BC0024. Since I was too cheap to get replacements parts I actually did something a little bit more crude:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/lecroy-9354am-broken-knob-repair/

author: exit_failure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 09:01:14 pm
content: Quote from: SMB784 on June 25, 2018, 03:53:40 amAre there per chance any tutorials for this? I searched around around but didn't really find anything useful.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 04:06:34 am
content: Watch this YT vid for starters. Most here agree it is very good. It is not so much instructional as it is an overview of the various clones and what to look for.

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 04:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: exit_failure on June 25, 2018, 09:01:14 pmIts not a particularly difficult process. If you getthis DSLogic Basic ($69)it comes with a pretty weak 256 KB waveform storage memory. However, you can buy the memory chip used in the more expensive models (likethis DSLogic Plus ($115)) from Mouser at this link:MT48LC16M16A2TG-6A IT:GTR by Alliance Memory ($3.36). Note: the chip was a little more expensive than I initially mentioned, but its still less than $5.Once you have the RAM chip, unscrew the case, take the mainboard out, and you'll notice that there is an unpopulated region on the board that fits the memory chip you just bought. Line up the pins, make sure the chip is in the right orientation (the orientation is indicated on the board) and then solder the pins into place (see attached photos for difference between Basic and Plus models). You'll need to practice your SMD soldering, the pins are pretty small. But its really not too hard, and the functionality you gain makes this device pretty world class for the price.In general these devices all have the same sample rate - 400 MS/s when sampling with 4 channels - however the effect of this sample rate is severely limited if you run out of onboard buffer memory. 256 KB fills up fast when you are clocking data in at 400 MHz on 4 channels, which means that if you want to take a trace that is more than a few microseconds long at the full sample rate you will need more onboard memory. This is because the device switches to streaming mode when it fills the onboard memory, and the streaming mode has a maximum sample rate of less than 100 MS/s for more than 3 channels of simultaneous readings. So, bigger onboard memory = faster data acquisition and longer traces before streaming mode limits you. This limitation is basically removed when you do the upgrade from 256 KB to 256 MB of onboard memory, as you can read in approximately 160 milliseconds of waveforms on all 4 channels at 400 MHz with the 256 MB of onboard memory, whereas you could only read in at most 160microsecondsof waveforms on 4 channels with the stock 256 KB of onboard memory at max bandwidth.My experience with sigrok's pulseview was pretty smooth, it wasn't bothered by the fact that what it knows is a DSLogic Basic has 1000 times the onboard memory than what it was expecting, and it recorded the traces in buffered mode just fine without issues with the software. It also functions just fine in streaming mode as well. Make sure you build sigrok using the linux build instructions on the sigrok website, rather than installing from a PPA or using a package manager. It makes things go much more smoothly on the setup.Here's a link to the EEVBlog forum thread on this whole subject for your own reference.You can probably ignore the part about the software compatibility with the modified Basic version of the device. The software didn't cause me any problems.Good luck, and let me know how it goes!

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 06:27:36 pm
content: With regards to "probing properly", be sure to compensate each of those 10x passive probes:More background on 10x probes:

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 06:57:36 pm
content: What a beautiful piece of equipment.I also believe that a Logic Analyser should probably be your next purchase.Get an "24M 8ch" box for EUR 5 from Ali / Ebay / Banggood / China / etc and use it with Sigrok.This little box has plenty of power for a whole shitload of different protocols and I've even decoded low-speed USB (1.5Mbps) with it (Decoders included in Sigrok / Pulseview).The combination of such a LA with a bit of firmware is a powerful tool for debugging your uC firmware.Some time ago I made some screenshots about this in this thread:https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/led-indicator-software-debugging?skey=debugging%20ledHaving a "real debugger" for your microcontroller is also a good tool, but with a logic analyser you can capture data without having to set breakpoints or stop your program. Very handy for timing stuff.You can also look "backwards". What did my uC do before the crash happened?I have a Rigol DS1052E, but for working with microcontrollers I use my Logic Analyser more than the Rigol Scope.