SMD Vacuum Pick Up Options (Hakko 394, etc)? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2013, 05:57:12 pm
content: So I have been considering getting some sort of vacuum pick up solution and I had originally intended to pick up the Hakko 394 (LINK) with all the optional tip sizes, but then I saw a manual pick and place setup and really liked the idea.This is the video/setup I saw:LINKand the nice looking commerical one he shows an image of is actually this one:LINKorLINK. Looks extremely nice, but they way about $1000USD for it.That design looks like using something angled like the Hakko 394 wouldnt work. So I started thinking okay, better ask around and see what the fine folks in the interweb have to say.There is also the Zephytronics AIRPICK ZT-3-MIL pick up vacuum:LINKAnd the Aoyue 932:LINKBut neither of these have "on/off" buttons to shut off the suction and release the part.What is a good vacuum pick tool? I kinda like the idea of building my own manual pick and place x-y unit as described in the above link mostly because itll be cheap and easy and I dont want to spend too much money on a manual one as I intend to buy an automated one at some point. That being the case Id still like a good vacuum pick up tool and def dont want a cheap one that "only sort of" gets the job done.So all that being said, any suggestions?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2013, 06:49:00 pm
content: I have some experience with vacuum pick-up tools. I don't get on with any of the 'pen' type units that you squeeze or press a button to generate a vacuum.I prefer to use the type that are pen shaped and fed with a constant vacuum from a diaphragm pump. The control of the pick-up vacuum is the opening and closing of a small hole in the hand-piece with the operator finger tip.I currently use the vacuum pick-up that is part of my PACE ST300 hot air station. Aoyue also produce a stand alone vacuum pick-up that works on the same principle. Control of the vacuum is very easy and crucially does not involve large finger movements that can disturb the placement of the component.I will post a photo of my Pace PV-65 hand-piece for your information.All that you really need is a decent hand-piece, the appropriate tips and silicone cups. It is possible to make a hand-piece or to modify a commercial 'plunger' button type that normally contains a rubber bladder. The vacuum pump does not need to be that high a spec. As an example, My PACE ST 300 is a very expensive unit and it uses a simple single diaphragm vibrating armature type pump as found in many fish tank pumps ! It only measures around 2"x1"x1" with a 0.75" diaphragm....really very small for such a pump.There have been Chinese sellers on e*ay selling modified fish tank air pumps with silicone tubes and simple hand-pieces at almost give-away prices. I bought one and it works well. The pump is a dual diaphragm vibrating armature type with variable drive to control the vacuum level. The control of the hand-piece vacuum is via a finger hole on the tube.You do not have to spend a lot on a decent vacuum pick-up tool. Aoyue sell their hand-piece as a spare part for around US$12 or you can buy a complete Aoyue pump and hand-piece for around US$60. The Aoyue 932 was available as quite a compact unit but it would appear that a larger unit is now sold. The 932 uses a massive pump normally found in their hot air and desoldering stations. Total overkill but I suppose they already have lots of the pumps so why not use it. In the UK the pump can be purchased for GBP19 as an Aoyue spare part. You will see from the EEV comment below that the pump has too much suction but this could easily be modified by adding a small air bleed in the vacuum line.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/aoyue-932-vacuum-pick-up/http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pump-Vacuum-Suction-Pen-Placement-Machine-IC-SMD-BGA-Chip-Pick-Up-Tools-220V-/110829467381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cdf376f5

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2013, 08:18:06 pm
content: Thanks for that great response! Very helpful! I forgot to mention that I had in fact looked at the Aoyue 932 previously but had decided against it because of the poor things I had read bout it in reviews like that over power and the having to bend/or angle/or file the tip to get it to work with anything smaller than 0805. I also really didnt like that there was no "on/off" switch to let the part go. Thats one thing I really liked about the Hakko 394, the button on the handle where your index finger would probably go is actually the pump cut off.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2013, 11:00:04 pm
content: The types with internal manual pumps are completely useless (but a useful cheap source of a handpiece and nozzles to DIY a proper one) - continuous suction is absolutely essential.Foot-pedal operation is also highly desirable as it avoids shakes as you release the part

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2013, 11:12:17 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 29, 2013, 11:00:04 pmOh yea, definitely wouldnt even consider the manual pump kind. The Hakko actually has a battery powered pump inside of it. Check out this video () at 17:12 and youll see what I mean.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2013, 12:35:27 am
content: I like the battery powered HakkoI have just had a mad professor moment..... I have a spare (inaccurate) blood pressure monitor that runs on batteries. I wouldn't mind betting that I could modify the little diaphragm air pump that it contains for fitting in a handheld unit like the Hakko design :-) I already have a suitable case and the tip, nozzles, cups etc.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2013, 12:40:18 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on May 30, 2013, 12:35:27 amI'd be worried about vibration, but even if it's smooth, you'd still want a foot pedal to avoid movement when operating it.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2013, 12:42:35 am
content: Hmmm... I do have a foot switch brand new laying around that I haven't used, could wire that up to the hakko! Lol

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2013, 04:24:54 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 29, 2013, 11:00:04 pmA guy called Mike even made a video about it

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2013, 05:04:34 pm
content: Well just added the Hakko 394 and all the tips to a TestEquipmentDepot order I had been putting together for some Metcal tips and Pomona stuff, so we'll see how it goes and what I think when it comes. Ill post back after Ive played with it a bit.Still open to other suggestions and info though if any one else has more to add to the topic.

author: DigiGal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2013, 06:44:11 pm
content: Anyone got a solenoid recommendation that can be installed in the Aoyue 932 for foot switch operation?This guys review lends a workable solution for the Aoyue 932 but a foot operated solenoid controlling the vacuum would certainly be better...

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2013, 08:34:57 pm
content: You can get some from your local aquarium supply store. The fish need an air supply that can be turned on and off.

author: DigiGal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2013, 05:28:07 pm
content: Thanks or (tanks) for the aquarium store recommendation JuKu.Are you using the Aoyue 932 with such a valve yourself and is it one of these (available in 110vac, 220vac or 12vdc)?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solenoid-Magnetic-Valve-Switch-Aquarium-CO2-Air-Supply-Cut-Off-/221210341652?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item791ac5be26It is described as an "air supply cut off" which implies normally open though it doesn't specifically list the valve as normally open.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2013, 06:00:53 pm
content: Those little direct acting valves can be normally open or normally closed, depending on how it is made. Most common is the normally closed ones, power to open the air port and allow air through. You have to be careful with those though, as using it for vacuum use means you have to note the air flow direction, they only operate one way round and may stay closed if used in reverse. With me they normally last around 2 years for the cheap ones, the Shako ones do 3 and the Numatics ones do 15 years before needing a service kit. Must check tomorrow if the service kits I ordered Dec have arrived for my spare valves, before I actually need them. The service kits actually cost more than the cheap valve units, but last 5 times longer at a minimum. Some made in 1984 are still running with no issues nearly 30 years later, having had a few million cycles on them. Warranty is 1 million cycles.Just note that you must not run the AC coils without the valve body in it, as they rely on the steel core to provide inductance to limit the coil current, and as they normally run at close to 100C surface temp if the coil is left off for over 5 minutes the coil burns out or melts.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2013, 10:18:58 pm
content: I bought one of those glue / paste dispensers from AliExpress a while ago to use as a solder paste dispenser. It runs from the workshop air line.One of my guys modified a spare paste tube to be a pickup tool fed from the vacuum port on the dispenser. He drilled a small hole in the tube that you can place your finger over to cause suction on the (filed flat) needle tip.It works quite well with no rubber tips needed for the 0805 components we mainly use.

author: DigiGal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2013, 10:36:04 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on June 09, 2013, 10:18:58 pmDoes the vacuum port on the solder paste dispenser toggle the vacuum on/off with its foot switch or does it only supply a constant vacuum?

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2013, 10:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: DigiGal on June 09, 2013, 10:36:04 pmIt's a constant vacuum. I don't know the finer details as I didn't set it up. I'd say it has some way to enable the vacuum port when the pipe is connected.

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2013, 02:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: DigiGal on June 09, 2013, 05:28:07 pmYes and no, not that exact valve model. The one I got looked similar, though.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2013, 12:04:49 am
content: Got the 394, but only with the stock tip as the other tips were part of another order that had some items backordered which I am still waiting for. Those should be here around the 25th. However the stock tip with the small suction cup is GREAT for picking up ICs! This thing is much smaller and lighter than I thought and so far it seems to be a nice little tool! Glad I picked one up!

author: DigiGal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 06:26:00 pm
content: Got the 932 and still investigating solenoid options, went to local aquarium store only to find they're out of business. Looks like the most commonly available solenoids are all normally closed but some can be taken apart and modified to be normally open.I don't find that the unit has way too much suction power as mentioned in the video review. The vacuum pump is screwed to the internal isolation base, the cable ties are only holding the air reservoir. Couldn't beat it for the $35 USD price and it should come in very handy.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 07:06:43 pm
content: The items held with the cable ties are air reservoirs to reduce the pulsing effect of a 2 diaphragm 50Hz pump.

author: DigiGal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2013, 07:53:31 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on June 13, 2013, 07:06:43 pmThanks for this info, revised my previous post.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2013, 07:46:30 pm
content: For an alternative to the Aoyue 932, there is also this one:http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vacuum-Pump-Suction-Pen-Placement-Machine-IC-SMD-BGA-Chip-Pick-Up-Tools-AC220V-/321113623081?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac3dd0a29&_uhb=1Yes, its an aquarium air pump with SMD pickup attachments. No idea how good (or bad!) it is but it works on the same principle as the Aoyue.EDIT: I see that Aurora already posted a pick of this on the first page. Its interesting because, delivered, its half the price and the pump is almost certainly less overkill than the Aoyue. Also comes with 2 pickups.EDIT2: Here's a review:

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2013, 04:16:18 pm
content: For anyone still interested in the Hakko 394, I am, I had a look at the Hakko wed site and found a picture of what lives inside the handle.Take a look here:http://www.hakko.com/english/maintenance/topic_hakko_394_a.htmlWhen you see what is inside, this is an overpriced product. I can buy a variety of mini/micro vacuum pumps for around $10 delivered from China. Add a battery holder, switch and a length of silicone hose connected to a syringe tip and hey presto , a 934 cloneNow building one would take time, and I don't have that luxury at the moment, BUT I am surprised the Chinese have not produced a clone yet as its so simple in design.I may buy a cheap micro vacuum pump from China to play with though.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2013, 04:29:18 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on June 27, 2013, 04:16:18 pmYea that is all true, except buying all that stuff would not even come close to giving you the same thing as a Hakko 394. This thing is WAY tiny, feels very good in the hand, has a full set of well made accessories and is a compact, refined and ergonomic package. It would cost you a LOT more than a $10 pump, a $1 battery holder and some rubber hose to build such a sleek product.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2013, 07:02:21 pm
content: Agreed, BUT my point is that there is nothing inside it to challenge a clone makerThe pump is a simple and common COTS product, and the case would present no challenge to a Chinese manufacturer.I would expect a clone to cost around $20-$30 delivered. IMHO it is therefore an overpriced product especially as some are selling it at US$110 !Nothing I have said takes away the fact that this is the only self contained 'active' handheld vacuum pump that I have seen. It does look good, performs well, and I would love to own one...but not at the price being asked.I hope you enjoy using your unit and that it serves you well.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2013, 08:07:33 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on June 27, 2013, 07:02:21 pmAgreed. Overpriced without a doubt. But the only thing I would be happy about if the chinese copied it would be that MAAAAAAYBE Hakko would lower their price on theirs. Im done with buying chinese crap. Their knock off and even their originals are either junk or just have too many issues. So I would have still bought the Hakko had there been a $20-30 knock off.That being said, if you know some 3D CAD or can get the 394 3D scanned, you could have your own mold made for about $1500 then youd have all the housings for pennies. Buy the rest of the components and YOU could be the knock off manufacturer!!!

author: richcj10
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2013, 04:43:28 am
content: I got a pump out of a vacuum food packer.I attached the same vacuum pick as the Aoyue to the pump.I found if I very the power to the pump, I can get a really nice pick n' place.If you put the paste on the PCB, and only put enough power to pick up the part, if will come right off when you press it into the paste.