truestudio, C/C++ & IDE & tools for arm (free download) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:21:05 pm
content: truestudiowhat do you think?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 07:47:16 pm
content: Haven't read carefuly, but from what I was told, only code size limit disappeared. Some sort of debug limitations still present, which is sad..

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on November 15, 2015, 07:47:16 pmThe table on that page says that advanced debugging are not available, which seems fair since it's an free offer.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:46:01 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on November 15, 2015, 07:21:05 pmIt means that they stop charging for the free IDE (Eclipse) and compiler (GCC), but charge for their own IP: the static analysis tools and debugger. They drop the price is $720 per annual subscription or $3000 for one time license fee, comparing to their old model of $6000 one time fee. So you can say that they drop their price 50% and also enable an annual subscription model.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: richardman on November 15, 2015, 09:46:01 pmso the optimizations they have, is just what is included in standard gcc? (yes, I know it's wrong to ask an oponent in the toolchain war, but hey.. )

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on November 15, 2015, 09:49:33 pmI do not believe they have their own separate optimizers on top of GCC. Writing optimizers are hard. LLVM and GCC/LTO are probably as good as they get.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 09:59:13 pm
content: Still I would never buy a perputual license from any company. If the company goes belly up your license is worth nothing and the software you invested time in an rely upon doesn't work. If they are smart they offer a non-node locked version for a reasonable price.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 10:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2015, 09:59:13 pmWe have done that, but most of the time not necessary because most companies that need to worry about long term availability would just archive the PC (or the equivalents thereof). We have also sent replacement licenses for 10+ old products. It's rare, but it happened may be once a year or once every other year - i.e. a rare event.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 10:57:03 pm
content: I have had a few issues with licenses expiring or PCs dying at most inconvenient times and having to wait for the office hours to resume work. That is not acceptable for me; I need software to be available to me 24/7. Also archiving a PC isn't a real solution since licenses are often tied to a piece of hardware and that hardware will break or become obsolete at some point. Nowadays a virtual machine is a viable solution as well.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2015, 11:03:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2015, 10:57:03 pmYes, this is why we offer many different options, including non-node locked, but for most people, the dongle or multiple machine options work quite well.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 02:32:34 am
content: Quote from: richardman on November 15, 2015, 11:03:53 pmI think it might be confusing on who "we" we are? Not Truestudio Maybe include a link to your company.Richardman did you ever get a printed copy of your C book printed?Maybe for those interested you could do a side by side comparison with Truestudio and your product. Seems pretty close but I do not see that they sell a development board and book.

author: asgard20032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 02:40:15 am
content: It would be nice to have a comparison of truestudio, crossworks, visualgdb, since these are those that most people here use when they need something semi-professionnal (so not paying a huge amount on a software).

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 02:45:24 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 16, 2015, 02:32:34 amSorry Sir: "We" are ImageCraft,http://c4everyone.com, not affiliated with TrueStudio etc., we only speak for ourselves.The C book is at the final stage of converting to Kindle ebook format - we ran into some snag with font issues and have to use images instead of tables (stupid ebook format), but should be done within a week. We will set it up so that Amazon will sell printed version - at cost so not sure how much it will cost yet, but will be as low as we can make it.Our major advantages over TrueStudio/IAR/Keil really come down to these items:Ours start with $99 non-commercial license, $249 for STD, + $150 debugger - these are one time fee, not annual subscriptionEase of use: we have JumpStart API, fast loading IDE and fast compiling compiler etc.Support: if you actually need to contact us, you will start with me, the primary compiler writerWe are not claiming that we are "The Best Thing Ever!", but that it behooves developers not "gung-ho" on GCC or IAR/Keil to give us a look. Try our functional demo and see for yourself.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 03:15:10 am
content: richardman thanks for the updateAny thoughts on offering eevblog members an upgrade to your $99 package such as your full blown debugger ?Looking at the contents of the registers seems interesting.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 03:27:19 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 16, 2015, 03:15:10 amIt really does help. I rely on it when debugging the JumpStart API (why doesn't this thing behave the way it supposes to??...) :-)Let me think about that. The debugger took a lot of resource to develop, but I could see your point. Is this a case of "any money is too much" or just a case of "a little money (say $50 in addition to the compiler) is OK"?Hmm... does EEVBlog support poll posts?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 03:36:50 am
content: QuoteYes as a new topic, it is next to New TopicSo you go to the section (?) and start from there and in this case I guess herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/Are you watching the Seattle vs Arizona game?I think the $50 offer to be fair.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 11:15:24 am
content: Quote from: asgard20032 on November 16, 2015, 02:40:15 amI agree

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 11:16:32 am
content: also, i'd like to hear about the static analyzer & these kind of chili peppers

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 11:25:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 15, 2015, 10:57:03 pmlike happens to me with all the SGI-IRIX's Apps: they are flex node-locked (probably to the mac address), and, once companies have decided the EOL of their products, you get "abandon-ware", because when their license expire your software becomes useful like blowing in the wind

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 11:45:12 am
content: But to be fair, lets say you have a project built with GCC 2.x.x vintage 2001 on ARM9 or whatever. Now you have to rebuild it in 2015 and you don't have the binary. You can now running Windows 10 or Linux 4.1, there is no guarantee that you can build that version of GCC.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 12:25:13 pm
content: Quote from: richardman on November 16, 2015, 11:45:12 amYou can still run an older version of the OS in a virtual machine. Personally I always keep any compiler version I ever used in binary form.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 01:08:23 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 16, 2015, 12:25:13 pmOf course you would, but the point is that not everyone would, or could, for that matter. Hence there are GCC/Eclipse/OSS fan, and there are people who rely on commercial software. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 04:20:50 pm
content: I am more interested in things (development testing && policies) like what quoted inthisage

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2015, 05:06:57 pm
content: Quote from: richardman on November 16, 2015, 01:08:23 pmIMHO it doesn't matter if a software solution is open source or commercial. If you build your business on a piece of software then it is good to look at the long term availability of that software. I don't care if a company I bought software from goes belly up as long as I can use that software. Therefore my remark about compilers goes for both commercial and non commercial compilers. If necessary I can change firmware in products dating back over 15 years; it's all there and ready to go. With perpetual licensing that won't be possible so I would never ever buy such a product. If a one-time only license has a poor price/performance value then the product doesn't interest me either.