New Uni-T UPO3254E Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:43:21 am
content: One of these just turned up on my doorstep without notice.Don't know anything about it, presumably hot off the press.Quite "busy" looking front panel.€990 for the 250MHz jobhttps://eleshop.fr/uni-t-upo3254e-oscilloscope.html$1000 for the 150MHz UPO3154EInteresting that the base model is 150MHz instead of the usual 100MHz.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32994757798.html?storeId=1110358

author: das_strobel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 09:49:23 am
content: I like the number pad. I guess that's why it is looking busy.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 10:27:31 am
content: I don't mind the busy vibe and numbered padbut 4 ch and external trigger 'shared controls' is always a deal breaker for meI don't want to 'get used to it' or care about 'limitations because of price' etc I'd rather live without itas it's enough to be thinking about the task at hand, without 'shared controls' mistakes andandthat goes with iti.e. each channel should have it's own basic controls right above it = KISS

author: edigi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 11:18:44 am
content: I'm always surprised how such basic information like the number of FFT points is omitted from the spec. (or well hidden, I guess not without reason).Like mentioned above: The rather pointless numerical keys (USB keyboard support could be much superior to it with minimal SW and some optional desk space cost only) and other fancy but equally pointless keys/knobs take space from the much more important per channel controls.SPI decoding not being part of the base package (optional) is also deal breaker for many.Entry level scope business is getting pretty crowded nowadays so vendors should pay attention to such (and many more) details...Note: I don't necessarily mean a complete keyboard with all keys (that can be also beneficial e.g. when giving file names) but num. key only keypads likehttps://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+numeric+keypad.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 11:37:14 am
content: Almost time to build a head to head comparison spreadsheet to compare all the scopes entering this sub $1k price bracket.Does something like that exist?

author: edigi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 11:43:50 am
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on July 22, 2019, 11:37:14 amIt's part of the sticky "Digital Oscilloscope Chart" but it's probably hard to keep up with the announcements and also the hacking options.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 04:03:27 pm
content: I never used a scope with shared controls and have noticed lots of negative comments about that type of user interface. Is that due to operator confusion and thus increased usage error?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 04:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 22, 2019, 10:27:31 amThe 'shared controls' goes much deeper than just having a vertical position knob above each input.When you press a channel button on one of these the whole user interface changes to be centered around that channel (on-screen measurements, etc.) The four buttons are needed even if you have the extra knobs (either that or you have to add a whole extra layer of complexity to the menu structure).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 04:16:26 pm
content: Quote from: Grandchuck on July 22, 2019, 04:03:27 pmIf a channel is already selected and you press the button again it turns off the channel. I guess that could be annoying.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 05:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 22, 2019, 04:16:26 pmOn the R&S you actually have to press it twice. First will bring up channel menu, second would turn it off. And yes, it's operator confusion, lasts about a day.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 06:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on July 22, 2019, 05:19:15 pmIt's easy to turn a channel back on if you accidentally turn it off. Just press the button again.My guess is that most people learn not to do it after a couple of days of use.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 06:37:56 pm
content: Yes, it's very easy, and none of the settings change so I'd call it a non issue. Not to mention there are PLENTY of indicators(in the combined control scopes I have) that it's not easy to make a mistake. Some people just can't cope though.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 10:07:41 pm
content: Looking at the back, it has video out, but it is a VGA connector not HDMIand the USB connector on the back is a B style connector, don't see many of those anymore either.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 10:42:27 pm
content: Quote from: Grandchuck on July 22, 2019, 04:03:27 pmNot really but it does take an extra button push before you can change a channel setting. Then again it is not so much of an issue with a good touch screen interface.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 10:58:39 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on July 22, 2019, 10:07:41 pmUSB type B is still standard on all Rigol gear, a lot of scopes, and a lot of printers. It is the most robust USB connector available. No reason to use something else.VGA is basically obsolete, although Siglent is using it as well, so there must be some demand behind it. Maybe for classrooms.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 01:33:23 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 22, 2019, 10:27:31 amIt's hard to make a compact 4 CH scope with individual controls.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 01:34:59 am
content: Quote from: Grandchuck on July 22, 2019, 04:03:27 pmYes, changing the wrong channel vertical is inevitable with shared controls.But worth it for a compact scope format.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 01:36:12 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 22, 2019, 10:58:39 pmI think VGA is there because the processor chipset often includes it for free, so no major BOM price increase.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 01:40:51 am
content: Interesting. Looks rather Rigol-like, but with more sensible labeling and fonts.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 01:41:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 23, 2019, 01:36:12 amI concur. Inexpensive addition to the feature list.

author: cv007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 02:19:48 am
content: >It's hard to make a compact 4 CH scope with individual controls.They have room above/below the display. I'll take keyboard keys labeled large enough to read and will take the key press feedback that comes along with it, and throw in a backlight, too. Now you have freed up 24 buttons, and can now throw some real knobs in the main area. While they are at it, they can make the knobs large enough for an adult to use and label them in font size > 6, and in some contrasting colors.There.(I can't run a photo editor well enough to add the knobs- just imagine the knobs are from an old tek scope or from an airliner cockpit)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 02:28:39 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 22, 2019, 10:58:39 pmProjectors ?Yeah I dunno why it's still in use either as a better solution is an inbuilt webserver where the display can be ported to any LAN connected display, PC or laptop.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 03:00:59 am
content: Optional serial decoding??? Seriously???

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 05:40:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 23, 2019, 01:33:23 amJust the input basics > channel selection, input gain/attenuation, Position etcand whatever else can be squeezed in for battlers on food and gear rationingThis assures faster setups (IMVHO), no brainer tweaks, less mistakes, bumps, accidental shared control swipes, and crossed fingers etcThere's always going to be menu work with any decent DSO,but at least have four simple dedicated channel control strips on a 4 ch DSOand separate controls and socket for external triggering (another 'shared' -sacrifice a channel- dislike)It can be done, I have a 4 ch Siglent kicking around that has this, and the only reason i didn't go the Rigol,both were same-ish dollars IIRC

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 06:15:26 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 22, 2019, 10:58:39 pmIt actually isn't:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#DurabilityI'm sure we all have a loose USB-B connector somewhere, eg. on an Arduino.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 08:09:09 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 22, 2019, 10:58:39 pmI bought a new monitor a couple of weeks ago and it still has a VGA connector. I don't think VGA is a bad choice here. You don't need high resolution and a VGA port doesn't take a HDMI, DVI or display port connector away. You can use the monitor itself to switch between the inputs.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 08:26:07 am
content: Pending software, UI design and real world testing, these Uni-T units look reasonably good for a cursory glance on paper.I'm sure I missed a bunch of comparison points, but I just spent 30 minutes doing a really basic comparison.(Darker green = better, per row)Hopefully Dave will have a review video up soon, and hopefully unlocking the 150MHz version to 250MHz won't be too hard, along with the decode options too.I was looking at buying a Siglent soon to replace my Tek TDS210, but this Uni-T has me intrigued....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 05:15:55 pm
content: You comparison is missing the GW Instek GDS-1054B and GDS-2074E. Both can be 'hacked' to get more features and bandwidth. The GDS-2074E can be hacked to have 300MHz on two channels.I see that the Uni-T doesn't seem to have peak-detect. I'd avoid buying a general purpose scope which doesn't have peak detect.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 05:57:25 pm
content: Is this thing really better than the Rigol 5000?It's at least twice the price of a hacked Siglent 1104X-E

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 06:22:22 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on July 23, 2019, 05:57:25 pmIn the "unhacked" state? Yes.If you hack the Rigol? Not so much.Quote from: Old Printer on July 23, 2019, 05:57:25 pmComparing hacked to unhacked is pointless. Retail prices aren't set that way.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 07:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on July 23, 2019, 05:57:25 pmIf the firmware works then probably yes but I don't hold my breath. To me Uni-t seems new to serious digital oscilloscopes so seeing is believing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 08:29:22 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 23, 2019, 07:49:28 pmMaybe Dave's review will clear that up.(crosses fingers that it deserves a roasting... that way Dave can't be accused of being anybody's paid-for shill)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 08:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 23, 2019, 06:15:26 amI don't care about rated insertion cycle durability because I'm only going to plug the thing in a handful of times. I care about it getting yanked on and not breaking off the board..If you are really plugging/unplugging your arduino that many times then USB-C is going to be a better option there.Quote from: Old Printer on July 23, 2019, 05:57:25 pmNo not even close. 8Gs vs 2.5, no touchscreen, etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:44:03 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 23, 2019, 08:29:22 pmI don't know if I'll review it, I did not request this and they did not inform me it was coming, it just turned up (to my old address actually, luckily my DHL guys knows me and that I moved)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:46:42 am
content: Quote from: Old Printer on July 23, 2019, 05:57:25 pmWhy would you compare it to a Rigol 5000? They aren't the same class instrument.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:09:26 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 23, 2019, 05:15:55 pmI'll add the GW scopes and update the file. I didn't go into hacking etc as that is a whole other can of worms and complication.Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 12:44:03 amYou could send it to me to review!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:28:13 pm
content: $1070 for 150MHz/2CH to $1587 for $250MHz 4CH.How is this the least bit competitive against say the Siglent SDS1000X/E Serieshttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993348875.html

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 12:44:03 amYou could open the box and take a look, maybe.If it's bad it deserves a good roasting.Whatever happens you could give it away as a prize.(Maybe give it away unopened...)Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 12:28:13 pmExacly. For the price of the cheapest model you can have a Rigol DS5000 or a Siglent+change.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 03:24:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2019, 12:28:13 pmQuote from: Fungus on July 24, 2019, 12:59:15 pmThis is what I was trying to say above, I guess I just didn't do it very well. A bit out of my league here. I see it has substantially more memory depth, waveforms per sec and sample rate (on paper) than the 1104X-E, just not sure how they translate into $$. It still falls well short of the Rigol 5000 starting at $1000. So I was wondering what all the chatter was about, other than it was new, and assumed I was missing something.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 10:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 24, 2019, 12:59:15 pmAlmost fell off the chairPerhaps DJ is concerned lurking marketing desperadoes will start dumping gear at his door to reviewand take their chancesOn the other hand, Uni-T may have a price point winneror rebadged Owon/Rigol/Siglentand who else better to review it, than the EEVblog bloke on Youtube?Maybe DJ could handball 'surprise packages' like this for review to local EEV-ites and or tubers,do the best they can and get to keep the product for their effort.Anyway, if it ends up on the nature strip I'm certain someone will score a bargain at the local Trash n Treasure"How about $20 for it mate, that's all they're worth""OK, done deal, what is it anyway?""Crappy microwave, I'll probably have to fix it, do you know if it works?..will you take $15?"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 01:29:23 am
content: I heard from Uni-TQuote

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 03:44:31 am
content: Uni-T throwing the gauntlet for a three way cage match ?the winner scoring a good slice of the the '2k budget' dollars..If it's on, consider to also compare them to a top shelf freshly calibrated 4 channel DSO with same bandwidthand perhaps one with a much higher bandwidth too, to see how well the threecheapiesfareFeatures aside, I'd like to see what real BW grunt they have at different levels and waveforms= a six episode EEVblog sagaGet those contenders working hard if they want the prestige.. and market share

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 03:46:38 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 23, 2019, 06:15:26 amWhat works on paper does not work in practice. You'd be insane to use one connector over the other based purely on insertion cycles. The newer ones may be rated for more insertions, but a single gentle tug from a distance, and those connectors are gone.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 04:00:45 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2019, 01:29:23 am"we are comparing this product with the following..."This must be some kind of bad joke or intentional mistake. Using AliExpress like "reference" tells lot about this kind of marketing... how I can say it nicely - completely lower class, unworthy and unprofessional from whoever here in Dave's message was quoted. Maybe the world have changed, under the leadership of the one, and has become such that facts no longer matter.If look this link, in picture there is SDS1204X but then there in this AliExpress sales ad there is all specifications from very old obsolete Siglent SDS2000 (without X) and (1 generation FW) series.Even it have today (2x) 70M memory after 2nd generation FW's, not 28M.SDS2000X series have (2x) 140M.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 06:00:51 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 25, 2019, 03:44:31 amI don't have the competing Siglent or Rigol though, so no shootout from me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 06:02:26 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on July 25, 2019, 04:00:45 amIn China Alibaba/Expres is THE place to buy stuff, so natural they would use that. Probably just did a quick search for the email. No big deal.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 09:14:26 am
content: Unit-T should dip into the Xmas party stash and hit on aliexpress for those two scopes,and send to DJ's correct addressi.e. Come on Uni-T, if the new scope is half as good as the claims, what's another 4k to blow in the high flying corp world?

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 03:56:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2019, 06:00:51 amAny members nearby want to lend Dave their scopes for a day?