Look at this schematic drafting machine! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 06:59:37 pm
content: Tired of drawing schematics with a quill? Switch to the latest technology! The Diagrammer!

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 07:43:52 pm
content: That's amazing. I would love to see a teardown of that machine.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 08:02:11 pm
content: i wonder how much it cost back in 1970.Then compare that with todays cost of a cheap PC, a cheap printer and a license for Eagle...Would be interesting.

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 08:15:45 pm
content: Where can I download this Diagrammer ?

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 08:25:12 pm
content: Hmm robotic arm with slides to exposure film... Just one thing... How was it using that monster machine faster then drawing it by hand?Took longer to place transistor in drawing machine then fellow with pen and paper..

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 08:28:10 pm
content: Line-O-Tyyyyyype!

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 08:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: lapm on June 25, 2014, 08:25:12 pmmore accurate, looks nicer, etc

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 09:57:12 pm
content: The machine looks more like it was designed by a typesetting company for printers, not for companies wishing to streamline their drafting department. But then someone somehow thought it might be a good idea to market the machine to companies with drafting departments.I don't remember if there was a particular shortage of draughtsmen in 1970. I'd like to know what the machine did cost and how many they sold.

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 10:06:35 pm
content: Wow!I too would be like to know how much it cost, and would it really have made an overall "cost reduction" when you factor-in operator time, consumables AND depreciation of the machine?What happened if a mistake was made? Was it necessary to start again? I didn't see any erase facility. And why record on to "special double exposure film", surely paper tape, was readily available at the time.

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 10:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Watson on June 25, 2014, 10:06:35 pmYou get fired for wasting the exposure film.

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 10:24:24 pm
content: I can only assume there is good reason why nobody has ever heard of this thing. But hey! It's MIL SPEC! He said it twice!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 11:08:34 pm
content: It's more user friendly than eagle. ;-)

author: kolonelkadat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 11:21:23 pm
content: oh man! i want that keyboard.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 12:55:46 am
content: Absolutely magnificent. And I can only imagine the multi-million dollar price tag!More on Mergenthaler (see also the related videos):http://youtu.be/XvwNKpDUkiETim

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 03:14:19 am
content: I saw some funky-assed transistors in there...

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 06:06:25 am
content: Quote from: zapta on June 25, 2014, 11:08:34 pmProbably

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 07:18:04 am
content: Never again will I complain about the time it takes for Orcad to load.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 07:28:55 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 26, 2014, 03:14:19 amMultiple collectors or emitters and other monolithic structures were kinda-sorta-available back in the day, but like the UJT, died out quickly as the mainstream kinds of parts dominated. Could also be some of those symbols were intended for semiconductor manufacturers (datasheets, internal documents?).Tim

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 07:31:22 am
content: nice video, thanks for sharing!it's like visio 1970s style

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 04:12:05 pm
content: wow, I never heard of such a machine.Thanks for the video

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 04:37:59 pm
content: That looks like a seriously fun machine though. No extra DRC, or layers of menus. Just position and expose!

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 04:56:49 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on June 26, 2014, 04:37:59 pmAnd no undo button.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 04:59:09 pm
content: Just like Allegro not all that many years ago. And I bet it crashes a lot less often.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 06:12:10 pm
content: Nice little variant on the photosetter. You could do some nice DTP work with those, as they were the fastest method in the days before computer DTP and laser printers to generate printer ready pages. Beat the Linotype and hot metal machines in terms of speed and quality of output, and was a lot faster to set up a page and automatically align the text columns and flow automatically around pictures. Then you print onto a photosensitive plate direct and develop and then put on the offset printer to run off the copies.Large, could be cranky and definitely had no undo after you pressed line feed which wrote to the film plate.Printing is becoming a lost art, though you can pick up a used offset press quite cheaply, but to get it running well you will spend a lot. Wonder if Dave will ever get one for teardown, they actually do have a lot of electronics inside those covers, even if the user interface consists of a few LED's and switches, and a great big handle to select each operation step. The smaller ones do fit inside a lift, and only weigh 300kg. The big ones come in a few containers along with a need for a 10 ton forklift to move the parts. Some are totally digital, think a colour laser but using cans of ink, and being able to change jobs in under 5 minutes, then 3000 pages per hour in 4 colour with a UV overvarnish. All at the touch of a soft button on a screen. POA and any sportscar is way cheaper.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 10:45:14 am
content: My God, it's write-only. How often would anyone be able to complete a complex schematic without ever making a single mistake? "Four times faster than manual drafting" they say. I seriously, seriously doubt that, given that every time you make a mistake you apparently have to start all over again. Because, film.I bet Mergenthaler felt remarkably cheesed off and insolvent after they developed that, juuuust before microprocessors appeared. But there were already minicomputers, so you'd think they might have had an inkling (ha ha) that maybe fully optical-mechanical wasn't the way to go.Fascinating video.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 11:04:07 am
content: That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen for ages - I can't imagine that it couldn't have been done a lot more cheaply with a pen plotter - maybe in conjunction with something like paper tape or punch cards. Lack of "Undo" seems a pretty fatal flaw.Amazed it is as late as 1970.They seem to have sold at least one :http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19690625&id=l9BOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CQIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6789,4603764

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 11:14:45 am
content: Kinda reminds me of this Rotring lettering thing. An earlier version of this had a 3U rack to house the electronics

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 12:01:47 pm
content: That youtube channel Computerphile is really interesting! Thanks T3sl4co1l.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 03:24:40 pm
content: That's a very interesting drafting device; the channel has several videos worth watching. The company that built that stuff exists now as linotype.com.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 06:49:01 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 27, 2014, 11:14:45 amThat was a really shit demo. I mean I finally worked out it needed a pen or pencil - so why not show it working properly?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 08:59:11 pm
content: 18th century Pierre Jaquet-Droz already built a fully programmable writing automaton

author: warp_foo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 27, 2014, 09:57:47 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 25, 2014, 08:28:10 pmAm I the only one who read that in Jimmy Walker's voice?m

author: MindBender
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 08:31:41 pm
content: I'm sorry to exhume this topic, but it is the only topic on this entire forum to refer to the Rotring NC-scriber device.I own one, and I've got a cartridge with it, but there appear to be many cartridges for it. They contains a simple EPROM and I've already dumped the contents of mine.Are there other people on this forum owning cartridges and willing to share the contents? Or perhaps somebody knows a spot on the internet where somebody already dumped a lot of them?