What's the best way to package a large, heavy, oscilloscope for shipping? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Tectonic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 02:42:00 am
content: I have a beast of a scope I've been meaning to sell but I've always been afraid it will get busted during shipping. It's a Tektronix 11402A which weighs in the neighborhood of 50lbs. Everything works so the last thing I want is for it to get busted during shipping.What are the "best practices" when packaging equipment like this and choosing an appropriate shipping method?

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 02:47:15 am
content: Double box it. Inner box should be about 6-10" smaller on all sides than the outer box. Ideally both boxes use the expanding foam into plastic packing method ("foam in bag"). This forms a perfect protective shell around the goods, allowing very little shifting, but providing ample cushioning. Reference:http://www.lpsind.com/packaging-shipping-systems/protective-wrap-cushioning-material/instapak-quick-packaging-foam/The unit should be sealed in plastic as well in case of liquid ingress in transit.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 02:50:11 am
content: IMHO, the corners of heavy items are where the problem will be if mishandled. You can wrap it in bubble wrap all you want but if it hits on the corner all the kinetic energy is concentrated at a point. Make really good foam blocks for each corner. The box should be bigger than the outside dimensions so that a penetrating object has space so hopefully it won't get punched. That's what I've seen and tried to do myself. Yea double box it too.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:48:12 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on April 18, 2017, 02:47:15 amThis ^ ^ ^ ^I would add that while you need to have firm support, there must be some 'give' so that WHEN the box gets thrown around (maybe not so much) and dropped (almost guaranteed) there is some cushioning.I might also suggest you do not rely on it being handled or carried 'right way up' all the time. If it fits better in a truck on its side, then that is a likely event.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 07:42:03 am
content: I always put a rope around heavy boxes. That way it is easier to pick up/handle and less likely to get thrown around. Double boxing with plenty of space between the inner and outer box is a good idea.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 07:59:22 am
content: Have a look athttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/how-do-people-pack-delicate-instruments-properly/

author: Tectonic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 10:25:08 am
content: All very good information. Thanks everyone.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 12:06:29 pm
content: Almost large enough to strap the recommended box to a pallet and ship it freight

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 12:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: PaulAm on April 18, 2017, 12:06:29 pmNo, no and no.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 12:41:57 pm
content: QuoteOK, that sounds like there's something behind that.I only suggested that because I have not had any problems with freight shipments, from fragile materials on up to 5 ton machine tools and I heard of someone freighting a 500 series scope. That's not to say there isn't an unending list of horror stories though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 02:17:28 pm
content: Another vote for double boxing. I've bought and sold a lot of big scopes over the years and it always works.Single box is ok if you bubble wrap extensively first and then foam pellet the rest (tightly packed).Sharp corners, tilting bails etc are a big issue, put extra hard cell foam on those spots (taped if needed).hard cell foam on front panel controls is recommended.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 03:48:54 pm
content: This is quite a sturdy scope, and the front panel is fairly flat. Foam over the front + a few layers of bubble wrap + double wall box should be fine.This is the type of box you want:https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-11257/Corrugated-Boxes-Heavy-Duty/32-x-24-x-24-275-lb-Double-Wall-Corrugated-BoxesGood luck making any money on it with Canadian shipping though.(For those playing at home, the 11402A is about 25"x18"x9", 50lb.)

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 01:06:00 am
content: Just to rub a point in, the best way to ship it would be in a Pelican case with custom blow molded liner fitted to shock absorbing middle layer. If highest probability of arriving undamaged is the measure of best.With boat anchor scopes bringing $50 to $200 it doesn't really make sense to spend huge amounts on the packaging (remember that bulk and weight adds to the shipping costs).My definition of best would be the smallest, lightest packaging that has a good chance of getting it there alive. My experience and some limited analysis says that a heavy wall corrugated box (the kind that is used here in the US to ship fruit and vegetables. Should be the same worldwide since those fruits and vegetables are being shipped from all over the world) with foam corner braces and some form of resilient fill in the voids is close to an optimum balance. I am sure that design can be refined but I haven't enough experience to really optimize. Part of the problem is I don't really know what a good enough answer for probability of safe arrival. How many nines? One is probably not enough. Two might be too much. Three almost surely is and four and up are out of the question.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 04:30:50 am
content: Deluxe way would be a blow-molded or roto-molded (aka Pelican) case. When using cardboard boxes, put some harder material in to protect the screen from impacts that break through the cardboard.Or just leave it in a dumpster, Dave will find it

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 07:21:04 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on April 26, 2017, 01:06:00 amWe can modify that, based on the results of tests designed to protect the human spine during aircraft crashes and when using ejection seats. The optimum is energyabsorbingfoam (Confor or Durafoam), which both reduces the peak and halves the total energy delivered to the spine. Halving the energy is a result of preventing rebound; you sink into the cushion and stay there.Unfortunately Confor/Durafoam is too expensive, but the energy absorbing property can be mimiced with "crumple zones", as in cars.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 11:14:19 am
content: QuoteThat wouldn't be much use for shipping though, would it? A crumple zone works brilliantly, but only once. For shipping you need something that will keep working through every depot the box passes through.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2017, 03:17:12 pm
content: I should clarify that by corner braces I meant foam or corrugated cardboard. Styrofoam is what the big OEMs use most often in their shipping boxes. It isn't particularly energy absorbing, but does take multiple impacts, spreads the load on the packaged item, spreads the impact over time (lowers the frequency content of the shock) and even does absorb a little energy. It generally prevents dented, broken or smashed cases. It also maintains the distance of the shipped item from the box, helping to prevent damage from punctures and tears.Part of my experience was some time spent working in the post office, delivering mail. Packages get moderately rough treatment as a general rule, with occasional extreme results. So the general rule is getting tossed from person to person, dropped short distances (less than half meter) onto floors and incorporated in large stacks of heavy things. (Not always orderly stacks, so the corners of other boxes can be pressed into yours). The extreme results come when someone drops a tossed package, trips and loses the package to the floor, or it falls off of a truck. My observation would be that this happens to something like 1 in 100 to 1 in 1000 packages.As a package designer I would try to deal with one extreme event (not multiples), and an indefinite number of the general rough handling. A crush zone is a viable concept, even though it does compromise subsequent exposure to general roughness. Again from my experience in the posts a visibly damaged package did get gentler treatment where possible.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 12:39:16 am
content: Something else I haven't seen mentioned yet, before you pack it up, pop the lid and look inside to make sure everything is securely fastened in place, the best packing in the world won't help much if there's a miniature wrecking ball swinging around on a wire bashing the thing to bits from the inside. If it's a scope with a magnetic deflection CRT, check that the yoke is securely attached, maybe ad a few blobs of hot glue or silicone around the perimeter where the big end meets the bell of the tube. Don't glue the hell out of it, just a few blobs to hold it in place. I've found that the yokes used in the TDS 300 and 400 series at least turn brittle and come apart easily, there are probably others with the same issue.Next most important is make sure the front panel is well protected. A couple inches of foam with cardboard folded around that and taped securely to the surrounding cabinet will help protect the knobs and buttons from getting bent or busted off.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 01:39:07 pm
content: cheapest place to get the foam and polystyrene is to go to the local big box retailer, and look in the dumpster for some packaging foam blocks, some polystyrene sheet and angles ( used for fridges as side protection), a large sheet of PVC film as wrapping for the unit, and also some cardboard boxes. Then you can make up the right protection, using the plastic sheet as a wrap, then the polystyrene taped to the corners as protection all round, the foam as front panel protection and wrapped in the plastic sheeting again ( well taped) as weatherproofing. Then cut a box down ( preferably a nice double wall cardboard one) to fit, tape up all the corners and seams, put a layer of tape on all sides and another all along the seams, and you are set.Put multiple labels on it that contain both recipient and sender address, well stuck down, and a fragile sticker as well on all sides, and another set of "this side up" stickers as well. International use a document sleeve to enclose the customs declaration/s and an invoice copy, and leave space to put the courier waybills that will be stuck to it.I have sent lamps internationally, and so far none of them arrived damaged, even the larger ones, using this method.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 04:20:53 pm
content: My own anecdotal observation is that boxes with "Fragile" stickers tend to arrive the most beat up. I tend not to label fragile items as such, or bother with "This side up".

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 05:41:05 pm
content: For more expensive heavy items I bubblewrap and built a simple wooden case around it from 12mm or 18mm mdf.It only costs $10 on wood and two hours of work.Put the wooden box inside a carton box or put carton around it with some extra shock absorbing foam and nothing will touch it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 02:14:46 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 29, 2017, 04:20:53 pmThere is that same sense here in Australia. Not sure about courier companies, but with Australia Post, there have been similar anecdotes that "Fragile" is an invitation for ballistic testing to be conducted. Our Australia Post does not offer a Fragile service.The current wisdom is to pack well and not draw attention.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2017, 11:50:58 pm
content: I twice had to take a Tek 465 on an aircraft, to a war zone. I stuffed it in the hold withzeropackaging; it survived just fine.There's the tale, probably apocryphal, of an aquarium manufacture with unacceptable breakages in transit. They beefed up the packaging, with little effect. They reduced the packaging so the glass was exposed and visible, and breakages significantly improved. I'm sure there's no truth to the concept that the couriers were more careful because they didn't want to have to sweep up broken glass.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 03:38:20 am
content: The key there is that *you* stuffed it into a cargo hold. It didn't bounce around on conveyers and tumble down chutes, it wasn't picked up and tossed up into a bin with other boxes then tossed into the bin on top of it. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much abuse parcels take in shipping.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 08:25:07 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 01, 2017, 03:38:20 amSomebody with access to those logging shock recorders PLEASE SEND ONE TO DAVE, enabled, and working, so he can have a nice record of the stress a parcel is subjected to in transit. Teardown if it is not wanted back, but if it is then at least post the log for all to see.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 08:32:52 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 01, 2017, 03:38:20 amEr, no.I handed it in the LHR terminal 1 counter, they put it in a plastic crate and shoved it on the conveyor belt. It disappeared into the bowels of the building and reappeared at the other end. They could see it wasn't packed, but I have no knowledge of how it was treated.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 08:56:56 am
content: Maybe there is no challenge in trashing something that is obviously vulnerable.