Smart meters seem to be the new concern for hypochondriacs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 05:47:55 pm
content: http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/Wondered what this forum's members thinks about this subject...(And perhaps about "electro-sensitivity" in general)

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 05:51:34 pm
content: Breaking news at 11: Old farts think new technology is bad.In other news, public understanding of technology at an all-time high of 0.0001%.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 06:11:50 pm
content: Other than the fact that it will probably be expensive to install them across the whole country, I don't really see what the problem is.I'm not too familiar with how these work (the site mentioned above seems to be more scaremongering than technical), but would there be any security issues other than usage data being sent across the internet?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 06:13:41 pm
content: Yeah, so the couple tens of mA of current used by the smart meter are going to be "dirtier" than the tens of amps of switched current, which is liable to be even worse? The smart meter's power consumption has a mandated PF of ~0.8, IIRC, and power consumption not exceeding a couple of watts, so it should be better than the switched AC current.No arguing with stupidity.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 08:14:11 pm
content: tom66: Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, but what is the switched current you refer to?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 08:18:44 pm
content: The current the meter allows if payment is adequate, though I may be thinking about prepayment meters. Either way, the whole household current does go through the unit, as it has to measure the current draw.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 09:22:03 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 19, 2013, 06:13:41 pmI thought the issue was the involuntary exposure to electromagnetic radiation from the radio communication they use.As for smart meters generally, mass introduction in the UK is a terrible and at GBP 16 billion terribly expensive idea. There is no smart grid there are no smart electrical goods. By the time there is the meters will likely be obsolete and unable to do anything much smart. Meter reading cost savings are trivial.The notion that if only people knew how much energy they were using they would use less is farcical yet accounts for the majority of the justification of the expense. The real reason is that technically illiterate eco green idiot politicians can't resist the idea of forcing people to buy personal real time guilt displays.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 09:31:20 pm
content: I was under the impression that there was no saving from the current system. I'm not yet the bill payer though (will be soon)... so I don't know exactly how it works.You get estimated readings every month/quarter/etc but you get a yearly or bi-yearly reading and they adjust for any overuse/underuse and you get that money back (or pay it back.)OK maybe supply/demand and inflation will have altered the price by then but it's not going to be a massive difference.I wonder if we'll see smart frequency-driven fridges and freezes - dynamic demand etc. In any current appliance using a microcontroller (many mid-range to high-end do) it would only involve adding sense circuitry (couple of resistors and comparator/IO pin) and a little software for a fairly significant change in grid stability.

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 09:56:42 pm
content: We have smart meters in Ontario, but the only reason I hate them is because they mean the utility can jack up our prices whenever they feel like it. Before the meters went in, we were paying 5.8c/kWh. Now we pay anywhere from 6.7c/kWh to 12.4c/kWh. What a ripoff.

author: Leon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 09:59:37 pm
content: The idea of the smart meter is pretty simple: by making read-outs easier it should become possible for people to get an accurate insight into their usage. This will be linked to more accurate bills and hence less surprises when the yearly bill is made. The hope of politicians is that with better insight people will also gradually become more aware of their usage, and start trying to reduce their energy consumption. This might be a good idea: over the past few years I've reduced our yearly power consumption, but it only became really easy when I received a digital meter with read-out capability. In that year, our consumption dropped by almost 25%. It's hard to beat a calibrated tool that measures everything, and 100% of the time.The smart meter in general isn't good for the utility company: over here they're forced to swap almost every meter, yet maintain the same overall rates to the customer. And those smart meters not only cost money to buy and install, but are actually more expensive to run since all of them send data over their built-in modem. The only positive side for the utility company is the self-usage: the new meters are more energy efficient, so that part of their bill drops somewhat.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 10:17:06 pm
content: QuoteYet that's what happened to me, a profligate wastrel according to my missus. In fact, today I was looking at the meter and thinking my office should be burning only 580W rather than the 620W it had been doing for a while. Couldn't figure it out, and then realised the video pattern generator and a plugged-in but powered off logic analyser were to blame. Turned 'em off, whereas before I set up the meter I'd have been a) oblivious, and b) not giving a toss.Actually, thinking about it, the only thing I am still profligate with is water (you should hear my missus whine about me leaving the tap running whilst I brush my teeth). Perhaps not coincidentally, we don't have a water meter.If I were rolling in money I would probably ignore this stuff and poo-poo any idea that seeing cash flow out the door in real time might affect my behaviour. But I'm not, and I suspect that most people are in a similar boat and quite happy to save a few pennies by turning things off that they're not using. It is one thing for your partner to nag you that the porch light must be costing a fortune to leave on (and then you calculate the actual cost and give them a cheque for the trivial amount just to shut 'em up). It's another to see thedetailof what's happening as it happens, and that same 20W or so of low power lighting can look really wasteful.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 10:35:27 pm
content: A plug in energy meter for me is sufficient.I have found things like my computer uses 100W idling on Windows desktop so I put it into sleep mode where it uses less than 1 watt and can resume in 10 seconds.But I realise that the difference between 0.5W and 0.0W for completely off is not a big deal at all because it would take two minutes to reboot, and I would save around 60p a year, which isn't worth I'd spend a lot more in time waiting for the computer boot. Therefore, I think these suggestions that removing devices from standby are generally poor advice, as they detract people from actual energy saving measures, by annoying them about it.So I don't see the need for a smart meter if I simply know the power consumption of each of my systems, which can be accomplished by measuring them individually. In fact, I think a smart meter is a lot less helpful because it only tells me how much total energy is being used -- rather than allowing me to measure individually (save for turning off all but the device in question.)

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 10:39:46 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on June 19, 2013, 10:17:06 pmJust had to pop in and say how much I like that phrase.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 09:49:51 pm
content: ah yes we've come across these types before with their dirty electricity

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 10:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on June 19, 2013, 05:51:34 pmOld farts need to dive in. It keeps the brain young. Old farts need to stop hanging out with other old farts also. Got that from a women in her 80's.