Teledyne Lecroy Brand New 65Ghz 12bit Monster Scope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 09:48:42 am
content: Well Teledyne Lecroy have been beavering away behind the scenes for a wee while now and have just unleased this absolute monster on the marketThe worlds ONLY 12 bit big gig (hz) lol scope with some dizzing numbers.Somehow I feel my two kidneys arn't quite going to cut it for one of these. hummmmmmmmmmmhttps://www.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/wavemaster-hd?utm_source=social-media&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=wavemaster8000hd-advertising&utm_term=+&utm_content=+

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 10:11:14 am
content: How loud is the fan and how long does it take to start?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 10:35:31 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on September 06, 2023, 09:48:42 amDid you asked LeCroy if they could include a hemodialysis lifetime license?PS: Maybe we can hack one!

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 10:37:57 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on September 06, 2023, 10:11:14 amNo where near as long or as noisy as the MXR thats for sure

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 11:37:15 am
content: Can I get a demo unit for evaluation?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 11:44:47 am
content: man the price must be ................. can it play Crysis lollloll hack into a 120 Gig

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 12:00:32 pm
content: Last time I asked the price for the 120GHz (i think) labmaster, I jokingly said that it probably costs more than a house in Munich. The guy just replied that it is more in the "apartment building" category.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 12:30:32 pm
content: Oddly enough if you are looking for a four channel Labmaster (although you can go to 16 or channels, the mind boggles) there are not as expensive as a 110Ghz UXA which are around 1.2M point regardless it a significant amount of drinking vouchers

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 01:30:23 pm
content: I also asked the guy who pays that much for a scope? The answer was also ultimate "typically taxpayers". What a fun guy he was.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 01:44:43 pm
content: These devices go to Government bodies / eductional facilities / large corporate entities and lucky barstewards

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 02:04:41 pm
content: @Sighound36,Did you measure the boot time?

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 02:34:20 pm
content: I'll doub't I will see one in the flesh before Xmas Tv84 let alone get to use one lol!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 05:19:58 pm
content: Labmaster is another beast...https://de.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/labmaster-10-zi-a-oscilloscopesI'd be happy with that, but it's out of my price range:https://de.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/hdo6000.aspx

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 06:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on September 06, 2023, 02:34:20 pmJust ask for a demo unit, Teledyne Lecroy will gladly ship one out to you, so you can try it out for a few weeks and see if it is something for you, before you pull the plug.It was something Shahriar from Signal Path & Lecroy made very clear to, Signal Paths viewers with the 100GHz LabMaster10-100zi, and even highlighted a dedicated mail address for such demo-units purposes100ghz@teledynelecroy.comSo this new 65Ghz jobby with even less bw (12-bit or not) should at least be the same.I know, that some scope-blockers would argue, that the Lecroy dude's face "arghh" could indicate otherwise.. nahh' just ask for a demo unit.1:15:57 Hilarious expression from the Lecroy rep, when Shahriar mentions "LeCroy will gladly ship out 100GHz LabMaster10-100zi demo-units"

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 06:24:08 pm
content: on the video the "top" is the scope screenhas no adc section, its the modules under itno ?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 06:45:01 pm
content: My home projects would never be the same.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 07:10:14 pm
content: I see 12 bits is getting mainstream. Well, kinda.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 07:38:22 pm
content: Quote from: exe on September 06, 2023, 07:10:14 pm12 bits, yes. 65GHz not quite yet...

author: Scratch.HTF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2023, 12:30:02 am
content: What is the total price of all option keys added vs the price without any option keys?

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2023, 06:43:11 am
content: Quote from: Scratch.HTF on September 11, 2023, 12:30:02 amWell, additional any xx GHz probes (may with new plug-system) to consider as pricey too xxk$.And how load will that biestInteresting would be the given ENOB f (Ghz) curve.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2023, 03:23:55 pm
content: Would be interesting to see the ADC architecture and process used for the chip(s). Back in ~2007, Tektronix was developing advanced ADC technology in IBMs 9HP SiGe BiCMOS (~400GHz devices), LeCroy was already using IBMs 8HP process and likely eyeing 9HP or already involved, Keysight were using another SiGe BiCMOS process, but moving towards leading edge CMOS for future ADC & DAC work.Today all are most likely using small feature size CMOS for the core ADCs, altho SiGe or even faster InP may have advantages for the input preamps.Best,

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 12:37:07 pm
content: Yesterday I spent some time with Chestnut Ridges finest UK representatives Richard & Jeremy on the Teledyne Lecroy stand at the Engineering Design Show in the UK where they were showcasing the the Wavemaster 8000HD plus many other of the superb Lecroy products on display.I must admit I was a little suprised when they felt it was inappropriate unit on demonsrtation to come back with us?Anway I have wait for our unita few images below of the beast in actaion with a new Leo Bodnar 30pS rise time device.The model shown was an SDA8033 version with full 16 digital channels, four Probus II inputs (Upto 2Ghz), one aux out, one aux in, fast edge SMA plus four Proaxial new style interfaces for the higher bandwidth measurments. It was sporting 8GPts of memory and twenty I7 cores. this was was capable of 160GSs sample rate.If you are wishing for the 320Ghz then you will require the 50Ghz+ architectureIn case you haven't guessed yet, it's wee bit impressively good!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 02:33:55 pm
content: Kidneys still inside?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 03:22:44 pm
content: micro / nano / pico second measurements drooling

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 03:50:22 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on October 12, 2023, 02:33:55 pmI assume the list price on their web site will be something in the region of "Contact us for a quotation"

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 03:58:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 12, 2023, 03:50:22 pmI think will be more like "30-year loan" conditions like when buying a home.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 05:08:22 pm
content: Atheistically looks pleasing. Black, with a green pinstripe and the general button layout, all looks nice.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 05:18:00 pm
content: What's the fan noise like?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 05:22:33 pm
content: Quote from: PixieDust on October 12, 2023, 05:08:22 pmHow does it look religiously?

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 05:43:32 pm
content: Tv84 Kidneys are still in place, though the bank account looking a touch bleakThe scope is insanely fast, yet subtle with cavernously in depth abilities. The new SDAX app is simply the most complete serial data analysis suite by a significant margin, also intelligent to, lets those not so au fait with this type of measurement easily get to grips with the various aspects plus a really neat feature to assist you with the connection guide and formulae involved.The scope also performs a lot of processing between specialised FPGA's and its serious PC computational power. So far, the firmware updates have been wrangling further performance by levering the best of both worlds on how to achieve the correct balance for each application. A lot more to come as well. I feel they are just scratching the surface imho.The ability to have the digital channels views the PCIE power and control signal rails while viewing the serial data simultaneous along with say ac power V/I probes on the traditional probus II connections gives immense flexibility and insight into PCIE/USB4/Thunderbolt etc.The Wavemaster 8000 HD isn't a particularly large unit or that heavy either. This is scope that means sheer insight with exceptionally accuracy with superb repeatability and confidence in your measurements.This is a R&D/Debug and validation at the cutting edge, as Tv84 mentioned this comes at a price, for potential purchasers will be larger tech companies/Universities/specialist SME's that would consider this type of equipment along with the Keysight UXR.A couple of nice features that many of us will be able to enjoy, the SDAX will be rolled on the next FW update due in the week or so, so if you have SDA III then you will have a few more toys in the toolbox (not all as you may not have 8Ghz plus, but hey its very welcomed.Also due in the coming months the 'Jitkit' is being replaced with a brand-new app 'Clock X' so again those that have Jitkit will also benefit as well.Realise this level of hardware is not something we would normally discuss unless in glib manner (We can all dream right!) Although I genuinely believe this is a real game changing device in a great many areas of research across multi disciplines.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 05:45:45 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 12, 2023, 05:18:00 pmGiven it's processing power and phyiscal depth STILL significantly quieter than an a MXR

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 06:04:32 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on October 12, 2023, 05:22:33 pmAutocorrect : )... aesthetically.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 06:05:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 12, 2023, 03:50:22 pmYou won´t find any prices on their website, it´s always and for everything by request.

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 09:57:38 pm
content: Well, when referring to pricing they always say " If ya gotta ask.."

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 10:04:55 pm
content: Our last scopes from Lecroy, we had paid significantly less than other dealers, or we got for the same price various options for free.We will never buy elsewhere again if we want a Lecroy.The only thing that is annoying, you first have to fill out forms and explain what you want to do with it and what we actually make/manufacture.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 10:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on October 12, 2023, 10:04:55 pmProbably to make sure you're not going to send it to Iran or something.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 10:19:05 pm
content: Exactly.I find that inconsistent.RS-pro had a Lecroy in stock at the time, we had ordered simple and also received simple.Then ordered directly from Lecroy and then the paperwork...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 10:21:37 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 06, 2023, 06:01:10 pmThe look of sheer terror!Obviously you'd have to have a .GOV .EDU .CERN or @spacex.com in your email to even get a reply.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 10:55:01 pm
content: I think Martin72 would be interested in one of those. I volunteer to write some extremely sad and tear provoking story for a crowd funding platform.Or we can all donate some kidneys and call it the EEVBLOG scope. For calibration we will need fresh kidneys every year. But, don't overthink too much because yesterday a monkey was shown in the news who lived two years on kidneys from a pig. The doctors said they've made significant progress. So it wont take long before the kidney prices of human origin will see a significant price drop.I like the edges they've made around the table. Maybe it wanders around when the fans turn on.Also, thou shall not forget to discuss the quality of the handle. But it seems they didn't put one on.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 08:11:15 am
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on October 12, 2023, 12:37:07 pmWell, well... I would like to see the idle noise up to highest freq. resolution as the ENOB too.While this would show how Siglent & Rigol is able in this regard as may LeCroy sets the new base performance.Also nice to see, that the Bodnar 30pS switcher shows some under/overshootsHp

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 09:07:26 am
content: Lets get a 65 Ghz power meter, a 26GHz spectrum analyzer and a 1GHz scope.Nah, too much bench space, let's just get a 65GHz scope.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 09:55:34 am
content: Quote from: temperance on October 12, 2023, 10:55:01 pmDamn. We'll need to increase our crowd source pool!

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 10:48:07 am
content: Quote from: hpw on October 13, 2023, 08:11:15 amYour point on ENOB are well valid and will be valid against scopes in the same catagory where benchmarking would be of interest to any perspective purchaser agree entirely. I know this unit compares more than favorably against other highly regarded devices in this sector of the market. Would suggest these points will become clearer in the fullness of time.If you are looking to capture much lower speed signals with higher precision then there are a number of 12 bit scopes from Rigol / Siglent and R&S now which perform very well indeed in the sub 1Ghz portion of the market. Producing consistant, repeatable low noise measurments itsn't just 12 ADC's it will be the complete front end must be of matching arcitectural complimentry circurity as well imhoI missed Leo (Bodnar) by around thirty minutes, the joys of timingthe scope 33Ghz BW gives a rise time of 11pS I really didn't deleve to deep in that particular measurment, I just felt the forums users may appreciate looking at an incredabilly fast rising edge, as outside of The signal path I feel they not so common for many everyday EE folks.Cost wise the Keysight UXR 25Ghz unit starts around $480K, I believe the WM8000HD 20Ghz starts around $270K in the USA

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 02:38:25 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on October 13, 2023, 10:48:07 amThis metrics as on Rigol DH04000 model:DHO4000Ultra-low noise floor at18 μVrms• 12-bit vertical resolution• 200/400/800 MHz• Up to 4 GSa/s real-time sample rate• Max. memory depth: 500 Mpts (optional)•Min. vertical sensitivity: 100 μV/divso we will get about 20% noise on 100 uV resolutionAs I like to measure residual LDO switching noise on ADC / DAC as in xxMHzAs it comes into mind, WM, SDA (as 8 bit) requires some averaging otherwise noise very high

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 03:33:37 pm
content: The lowest noise I have recorded on a WS HD 200Mhz is between 27-29uV with an open port 50 Ohms and NO BW filter applied and 1mV VTB after a solid 40 minutes of warm up, the best I've seen on a 12 bit siglent is around 34uV using the same settings. The rigol requires a few tricks to achieve its printed specifications including the use of a BW filter which is automatically set when you select the 500uV VTB from memory? As my father would say, they cheat fairAs with all things Gaelic , "Like the Murphy's, I'm not bitter"As I previously mentioned you are not going to purchase a Wavemaster HD or similar competitor to perform this type of measurment, you would select something more appropreiate for the task in hand. Hence why we use WavesurferHD's/Picotech/Siglent and Rigol 12 bit units in the main lab.Many times now I have suggested on this forum that 12 bit affordability is now mainstream which is a good thing all round. More choice to more EE's who would really like more accuracy in their day to day abili to make sure their projects are producing the designed parameters etc.They are more 12 bit units on the way next up will be R&S MX5 don't expect much change out of a starting point of 40K, that has 6 bits of SW filtering on top of the 12 bit ADC.Exactly the same happened when 8 bits became the norm, although at that point no Rigol or Siglent.People will gravitate to whatever platform / format works for them in a given set of applications. It's just our applications require more than 16Ghz of BW so like any company looking to expand its R&D facilities into 5/6G onwards these scopes & analysers will be an essential tool.At home I use a Wavesurfer & Wavepro HD both very capable products as are Rigol/Siglent/Keysight and R&S.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 04:20:31 pm
content: Quote from: hpw on October 13, 2023, 02:38:25 pmWhat Rigol does well is writing datasheets that lists extremes without mentioning they are not at the same time.18µV RMS is with both 20MHz BW limit and software filter that kicks in automatically at highest sensitivity..100µV /div is software magnification. Best it can do is 1mV/div. It is in datasheet..If I do the same on SDS2000X HD I get 13µV RMS on 1mV/div (so it is same input range as Rigol).But that is with short time base. With 1ms/div I also get 18mV RMS. SDS2000X HD has real 500µV/div.100MHz DHO800 that has fraction of bandwidth of DHO4000 has some 50-60µV RMS noise in full BW....

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 05:40:38 pm
content: I feel 2N3055has illistrated the point very well here, if we take things on an EQUAL playing field the results will be more towards the REAL WORLD.Early next year we will have one of these new scopes here so I will put it through its paces with our real world R&D projects and will produce a full MXR review for you chaps.In that time the new R&S MX05 will be on the market as well, pretty sure Shahriar will be about half way through his review by now so that will be something else to your teeth into as well.When you are this level my suggestions would say you are in an area of T&E where its all rather decent, its just which application (s) that will be the primary focus of your projects will dictate your TEA purchases from a business perspective imho

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 06:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: hpw on October 13, 2023, 02:38:25 pmYou post promted me to actually look at the real world noise floor of one of my personal scopes earlier:-Teledyne's offcial specifications list the vertical noise for a 4Ghz wavepro @ 228uV 50Ohm open port full BW NO form of manipulation at all.https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/waveprohd-datasheet.pdfLecroy Wavepro 404HD 4Ghz BW, scope had been running for over hour (have been looking at some new clock supply boards) running full bandwidth/50 Ohm open ports/No ERES/No digital filtering/No averaging. 10GS/s sample rate 1uS HTB/1mV VTB/100Ks.Below are the actual scope screen images 165pS rounded up. As you can see it comfortably exceeds it published figures of merit by at this point by over 25% of the spec sheet 228pS. In fact every Lecroy 12bit scope I have owned has demonstrated this. No tricks, no filters etc just the real world performance of said device.Final image with BW to 20Mhz and ERES to max, 32pS bit of a difference eh