beginner brain drain - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: JustSquareEnough
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 01:59:01 am
content: As a beginner starting later in life compared to when I went to collage and started my day job I feel like I am forgetting things faster than I am learning them, and just curious if it is the same for other hobbyist out there that don't do this everyday for a living.what I mean by this is things I have learned earlier in the year, practiced, understood, etc I feel like I now only have a loose understanding of. For example I learned how to use an micro controller, shift register, Hitachi chipset lcd, wrote all of the code from scratch to make it all work. Today I was looking back at it and I largely don't remember how I did it, but i suppose that if I had to do it a second time I could "figure it out" faster than I did the first time.Another example, I went through and learned about various transistor amplifier configurations and biasing techniques and I feel / know I would have to open a book for sure to refresh my memory if i were to use it in application.Maybe this is just normal? learn a concept, largely forget the details over time, but knowing the concept allows you to pick it back up when its needed in a project?-David

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 02:11:38 am
content: Growing old isn’t for the timid, or the faint of heart. . . but it sure beats the alternative!

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 02:48:17 am
content: Pretty much the same for me, I take a lot of notes like in school. It helps me retain more, but if I don't use it regularly constant reference to the information is necessary. Eventually the basics get burned in, then more detail. It is important for me to keep my reference info well organized so I can fill in the details quickly. I'm 65 and my memory is not what it was.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 03:10:41 am
content: I find I have to do something frequently or I forget the details. Fortunately it generally comes back a lot quicker than learning the first time.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 03:12:13 am
content: Your code should have had enough comments that it would be clear to the most casual observer what was happening. Every pin, timing requirements, startup sequence, everything. But that's in the past...You really won't remember stuff you don't use. In my case, I am happy to remember where I found the answer. Which book, which chapter, that kind of thing.There's just too much stuff to remember and it just gets harder with age.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 05:16:08 am
content: That sounds pretty normal, David, especially when your interests are many and varied. There's no way to stay sharp and on top of everything.Regarding writing code, as rstofer said, you should be voluminous with comments. Even if a section of code is obvious at the time, it may not be when you go back to see what/how you did something a year (or more) later. In your comments, including URLs to relevant material can be helpful too.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 11:46:49 am
content: I think that whoever coined the phrase, "Growing old gracefully" needs is @ss kicked. There is nothing graceful about it. The love life wanes, the eyesight goes, the memory goes, errr, ah, what were we talking about?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 12:27:20 pm
content: A few years ago, a customer brought in some industrial PLC for me to fix. It looked a well made unit, so I agreed (usually don't take "foreigner" repairs).After a couple days I got it going. I commented to him .. it was a nice design, but a bit short in a couple parts, nice layout etc etcThen he says .. "you idiot, you built it for us years ago" ... oops :-) I searched my archives and found the code .. couldn't even remember writing it !

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 01:14:42 pm
content: I don't need no stinking comments! There's a reason they call it code

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 01:31:41 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on July 23, 2018, 11:46:49 amAnd the SMT components are getting smaller and smaller, while the pulse becomes shakier and the eyesight poorer!

author: JustSquareEnough
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 02:58:28 pm
content: Thanks for all the responses folks. I think Old Printer and a few others hit it on the head, I'm currently balancing the fundamentals while also learning more moderate topics as well and not using either knowledge base enough for it to be "second nature". so I will just keep learning, building, and forgetting, I suppose that is what this hobby is all about.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 04:31:25 pm
content: Much electronic/software "knowledge" has a short half life - pick a value between 3 and 5 years. Details of processor-specific features, or which button to push to floggle the widget are classic examples. If you've done something once it is easy to pick it up.Hence you are right to concentrate (ho ho) on the fundamentals, which will last a lifetime.I'm delighted and horrified at how easy it was for me to pick up embedded programming again after 20/30 years. Still 8 bits, still C, still IDEs, still RTOS, still debugging (JTAG vs ICE is unimportant). Cheaper and faster, but nobetter.The only sign of light in the tunnel is the XMOS xCORE devices, which are a uesful advance

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 04:36:47 pm
content: Quote from: JustSquareEnough on July 23, 2018, 01:59:01 amHow old were you?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 04:37:19 pm
content: Quote from: JustSquareEnough on July 23, 2018, 02:58:28 pmI’m in the same boat.Find joy in the learning not just the achievement.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 04:37:44 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 23, 2018, 03:12:13 amComments are one of those things that have to bite before you improve upon yourself

author: JustSquareEnough
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 06:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: In Vacuo Veritas on July 23, 2018, 04:36:47 pmI'm still young in the grand scheme of "life" what I meant more by that statement is learning electronics as a hobby in fragments of time seems to be much harder than when I went to collage (for computer science) and all of my time was dedicated to learning, practicing the topic.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 06:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on July 23, 2018, 04:37:44 pmKind of like backing up your hard drive

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 07:52:51 pm
content: Neural networks need constant reinforcement to remember things.Don't take 6 month breaks from any particular subject. Queue up projects in each domain of interest and cycle through them.I can't even remember peoples' names, until I've heard them three or more times (unless they just happen to "click" for some reason, an existing strong association or something). That's very average, as far as I know. Don't worry about it, just put in the effort to overcome it, if you feel that effort is worthwhile.Tim

author: joseph nicholas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 07:58:18 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on July 23, 2018, 11:46:49 amHeres a better quote, made famos by Bette Davis= Growin old aint for Sissys

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 08:43:42 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on July 23, 2018, 01:31:41 pmDon't forget the hands...Actually, I'm on a medication for it this past month and it's helping (Primidone). Seems the dosage just needs some sorting out.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 09:02:29 pm
content: I suspect that for many EE and programmers, that their most productive years will be in their teens and twenties. And that is goes downhill from there. The ones who manage to continue in the field will be the ones with the best people skills and enough ego to continue talking down to the younger generation and make their lives miserable by telling them how to do things, and enough BS skills to appear indispensable to upper brass or investors.Other more technical EE, some end up in a very specialized niche. Much easier to keep current and relevant in a specialty.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 10:31:53 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 23, 2018, 09:02:29 pm^^ THISForget the first part that KL27 said tongue-in-cheek. After my beginning years when I had gotten past the gatekeepers, so to speak, I started mentoring younger players as much as I could.When you are handed project after project, one tends to clear the way in your mind for the new task at hand and therefore, much of what occurred in your previous unrelated project is either lost or stored in a difficult to reach place in your brain, only to be re-awoken when you review your old project at length. Sometimes if you're lucky, some of that knowledge comes back to you. Most projects are somewhat unrelated in certain lines of work, such as my patchwork history.On the other hand, like KL27 said, if you steep yourself into a single dimensioned niche, you can really absorb a lot in a serial fashion where you can relate current ideas to your original knowledge without that much issue. Since everything is related, the breadcrumbs are still there. Just my opinion.Hope this helps...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 10:38:19 pm
content: Another thing that feeds into it for me is endurance. When I was a kid I solved many problems in a day or two. But those days started at sunrise and ended after midnight. I can't and won't do that anymore so those same problems take a week or more.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 11:39:28 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on July 23, 2018, 12:27:20 pmThat's a good one. Note to self: don't critique unknown code, designs, etc., lest you discover that it's yours.I suppose your response could've been, "Yeah, and I'd make it even better knowing what I know now."

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 12:26:20 am
content: Quote from: bitseekerIt was the pivotal moment, the shock, in your life - believing you were invincible ... having produced 100s designs / systems over 30+ yrs - came the daythat you didn't even recognize one of your children .. entirely ! It took a while to come to comprehend, hence I had NO time for an exit response.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 01:17:15 am
content: Knowledge is generally perishable. Even motor skills are perishable. Understanding is forever.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 01:52:39 am
content: Quote from: digsys on July 24, 2018, 12:26:20 amYeah, I know what you mean. Ideas for good responses usually come to fruition afterward.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 07:34:53 am
content: Quote from: digsys on July 23, 2018, 12:27:20 pmThat sounds familiar. It's happened to me more than once that I've looked at some older documentation and wondered what idiot wrote it, only to discover in the changelog that it was actually me.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 08:48:06 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram:-)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 12:02:59 am
content: LOL! That's the funniest thing I've seen all day. I don't recall ever doing that but I'm sure my turn is going to come sooner or later.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 03:44:46 am
content: Seeing an old design and not recognizing it is the hardware version of not putting comments in software. How likely would it be for you to have missed the connection if the CCBs had a model number etched in? Something like digsys-0034. Or there was a sticker inside the housing with some basic information like business name etc. The latter would also let new owners, or new people in charge of an operation after those who purchased and put the system into use figure out where to go for upgrades, repairs and similar products.It is really easy to generate these labels/stickers these days, and even very low cost versions can last for decades.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 07:55:30 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOWIn my case, I have all relevant info on the PCB, and IF I make a custom lexan screen, on that too (just a logo etc) .. but I RARELY bother looking for that info,unless there's a good reason to find it ie a Motherboard or comms PCB / protocol. And if the repair isn't that complex, or a 1-off, there's no value in collecting unnecessary info. I already have several filing cabinets full of rarely used documents. I just didn't recognize the unit AT ALL. (and nearly twice more today :-) )

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 08:14:56 am
content: Quote from: james_s on July 25, 2018, 12:02:59 amYou don't recall ever doing it. See, it's already happening!

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 11:38:56 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on July 23, 2018, 11:46:49 amNot looking forward to all of that :-(Fortunately I'm only 55, just last year decided to settle down with one "forever" (here's hoping) woman, and this year joined my first real Valley startup.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 12:07:16 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 23, 2018, 09:02:29 pmMy experience is different.I toiled thanklessly in obscurity through my 20s, had no idea what I was doing in my 30s. The first real break showing where I belonged came when I was 43 and for the last dozen years things have just kept getting better.QuoteNone of those apply.QuoteCloser. Programmer, not EE, but I've worked my way into specialising in programming language compilers, low level software, and recently even moving towards design of machine code instructions that are both useful for compilers and easy/fast/low power to implement in hardware.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 09:40:36 pm
content: That sounds very cool, Bruce. I see they're near the San Mateo bridge. Are you working remotely from NZ (flag setting)?

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 10:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on July 25, 2018, 09:40:36 pmYes, very conveniently near the intersection of 101 and 92. The business centre is even called "Crossroads".Yes, officially I'm working from NZ at the moment (I have an apartment in Paihia), though for the last three weeks I've been in Emerald in central Queensland. It's warmer in mid-winter and not rainy :-) I was in San Mateo for three weeks in June, and before that in March. I expect to be living in the Bay Area by November.Exciting times! I think RISC-V has big potential.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 04:26:37 am
content: it's the skill of using tools that'll stay with you,you'll remember how to read datasheets and write code while referring to them but never the code itself. You'll still be able to do the same job.It's happening to me too, butI have actually put myself to test and noticed, now i'm more efficient. Though every thing I do, is done from scratch.I think, our short term memory is increasing while long term memory is being overwritten. Also parts of memory not being read often gets erased.