Hello, advice on my lab, and what solder to buy please - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pm
content: Hi all. I'm a 55 year old who has had to effectively retire due to long term (but not terminal) health issues, meaning I'm unlikely to ever work again. Thankfully our mortgage is paid off, we owe zero on credit cards/loans and my lovely wife works, so while we aren't rolling in money, we are not broke either.I also got a tax nice tax refund that I split 50/50 with my wife to each spend on anything we liked (my way of being allowed to get the stuff for my lab)Have been interested in electronics since an early age, I used to go to our local Tandy shop and buy kits to solder as a young kid (probably about 10+ years old) and had one of those 160 in one (or was it 200) electronic kits with the springs to connect wires to, this was in a nice wooden box.I remember making a radio jammmer in my early teens (and remember sneaking it into our art class, as the teacher always had the radio on, and me driving her nuts without her knowing it was me), and my lovely wife, who I've been with for 37 years, the first time she heard of me was when her cassette recorder broke and a friend who knew both of us said he knew someone who could fix it, that someone being meThen I got into computers, got a Vic 20 followed by a C64. Luckily for me, one of my best friends from school was very very knowledgeable in programming (he ended up co writing Populous and Dungeon Master), at the time he was a computer operator for an oil exploration company, he got me a job there as a trainee, he also taught me how to program my C64 in 6502 assembly (OK it's a 6510, but that's based on 6502), and there followed a career in IT.I've never gone away from electronics though, I'm very mechanically minded in general, whether it's replacing a bearing on my extractor fan, or whether it's the washer dryer not working and being told it's about £200 for a replacement main board, and me simply going over various solder joints on it, and fixing it for £0 (that was 3 years ago, still working).Where I lack knowledge is in maths. I'm OK at maths until you introduce algebra and calculus (was never taught it at school). I'm slowly going through a couple of courses, I'm beginning to take it in, but unless I'm using it all the time, I don't think it will stick properly (part of my health issues is that when I try to take in new information, on some days, not all, I get a fuzzy brain fog that tires me out).What path do I want to follow, I'm not sure really, I want to learn how to design my own simple circuits, how to fault find and repair say a synthesizer (my other hobby), or possibly even build a basic one one dayI also have things that are broken, for example my sons old graphics card from his old laptop, I'd like to try to repair it at some point, just to see if I can.I understand certain aspects of electronics, however, while I understand it, in that I could repeat how it works, my brain completely struggles to comprehend the idea of atoms and electrons.That all said, I've decided to get some half decent gear (well half decent as far as I'm concerned) .I have the following at the moment (most still in their boxes, waiting for xmas to be over before I take over the big table, others I've had a while):Hantek DSO5102P OscilloscopeHakko FX-888D Soldering station (and Hakko 1.6mm chisel tip)Backlight Transistor LCR-TC1 Tester for Diode Triode Capacitor 3.5" displaySWIFT S41-20 10X-20X Binocular Stereo Microscope Boom Arm with Dual Gooseneck LED LightKKmoon 60MHz Signal Generator, 2.4 inch TFT LCD Digital DDS Dual-Channel Function Arbitrary Waveform/Pulse Generator,250MSa/s 8192X14bits Frequency MeZerone LED Digital Soldering Station, 1000W Rework Station Hot Air Gun Solder Rework Tool Kit with 3 Nozzles 220V UK Plug (looks the same as the Quick 861 but a lot cheaper)Soldering flux Liquid 50ml oiler- SMD/RMA No Clean,Reflow, Rework, Reball RF800Power Supply, 2CH, 30V, 5A, ADJUSTABLE 72-10495 By TENMAUNI-T UT61E multimeterDigital laser infared themometerThen components:1000pcs 5mm red/green/blue/yellow/while LED kit70pcs L7805 - LM317 transistor kit voltage regulator1000 pcs 50 values Ceramic Capacitor kit0805 resistor sample bookResistor kit (through hole)900Pcs 18 Kinds Of Transistor A1015-2N5551 NPN PNP Power General Purpose Transistors Assortment KitI could have bought loads more component kits, but I stopped buying any more after reading this forum about having tons of stuff you never use. I would like to have some common electrolytic capacitors, but the kits all have cheap brands, I would rather know what to buy and get them from say RS and buy the likes of Panasonic? (probably be cheaper too)Then comes the other bits:I have tons of screwdrivers, including miniature sets etc.Decent wire cutters, pliers, side cutters etc.Silicon solder matBox of 6 different colour hook up wire spools40 piece, 6 size double sided prototype boards6 rolls (0.4 to 2cm width) high temp tape (for masking when doing smd work etc)Isopropanol 99%Two different sorts of circuit board holdersSoldering flux 50ml no clean RF800Bread board and mounting kit (3 bread boards mounted on board with binding posts)Another breadboard and jumper wire kit1.5mm and 0.8mm desolder braiddesoldering pumpI've also ordered the following books:Learning The Art Of Electronics, A Hands on Lab CourseAm about to order a 2nd hand 2nd edition of Art of ElectronicsTeach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan GibiliscoTroubleshooting Analog Circuits by Robert A. PeaseA 12 month online subscription to Everyday Practical Electronics.OK, I know I'm asking how long a piece of string is, and I know this is a long post. But is anything glaring obvious that I've forgotten about please?Finally we come to solder:Initially a couple of weeks ago I ordered the following solderRS PRO 0.4mm Wire Lead solder, +183°C Melting Point •60/40 tin/lead solder wire with no rosin (colophony) in fluxHowever, while RS were happy to supply me with my other stuff, they said they weren't allowed to sell me leaded solder (or my solder paste) as it's for professional use onlyQuoteI presume at some point in the past, I have ticked the diy/hobby option on their info.So I resorted to ebay, and ordered the following.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1MM-Tin-Lead-Flux-Solder-Welding-Iron-Line-Reel-Rosin-Core-Solder-Wire-PB37-SN63/254362182056?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=553927018746&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649and bought it in both 0.4 and 0.5mm sizes.As I'm unsure about the quality of ebay stuff, I also tried buying Multicore 0.5mm 60 / 40 solder from CPC (part of Farnell) at the same time. They happily sold it to meI want to make sure the solder I have is usable.After reading this thread,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/solder-choice-aim-sn62pb36ag2-vs-mg-chemicals-6337-no-clean-leaded-solder/msg2834530/#msg2834530I see on Farnell's UK site (not on CPC) they have Kester solderhttps://uk.farnell.com/kester-solder/24-6337-8806/solder-63-37-0-4mm/dp/1610447?st=63%2037%20solderwhich is £58.66 once VAT is added.I obviously don't want to throw money away, on the other hand, I don't want to be soldering with sub par solder. If it is better than the CPC stuff, it will last me ages and I will buy it, if it's no better, then I wontI also ended up buying the following solder paste off ebay, same question, is it any good, or should I buy something better please?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MECHANIC-XGS40-Special-Liquid-Soldering-Solder-Paste-158-SN63-Pb37-SMD-BGA/163143695978?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=462308678084&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649Many thanks for taking the time to read all this, all advice gratefully appreciated

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 09:40:59 pm
content: 63-37 solder with rosin core is probably the most recommended solder for hobbyists (and anybody else who doesn't worry about lead solder).Mine is 0.635 mm (0.025")I would probably go for the name brand solder so Kester would be near the top of my list. A roll like mine will last for years (depending, of course, on how much you solder). I've been working on the same roll since I retired, 16 years ago. I have a half finished roll of Ersin MultiCore that is also very good solder. Don't know why it got off the solder holder.Not asked but given anyway:Khan Academy Electrical Engineering video seriesKhan Academy Math video seriesDigilent Real Analog series (has handouts and lab projects)You can go a very long way with simple arithmetic and you don't need to derive the more advanced stuff, just understand the results.When you're searching Google: Ohm's Law, Kirchhoff's Laws, Thevenin's Theorem and Norton's Theorem will put you in a very good space. They aren't hard, just a way of looking at circuits.Plenty of stuff on the Internet.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 09:59:52 pm
content: You might still be able to get that highly dangerous and illegal alloy from American suppliers. Of course I don't encourage committing such travesties, at least until you leave the EUAlternatively, brick and mortar stores may sell it under the counter. Again, information provided purely for educational purposes. Buy lead-free.I tend to stay away from no-name stuff after one time when I bought some which stank ungodly.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 10:23:59 pm
content: Lead free solder is hopelessly bad for hobby use.Remember that laws are for the guidance of the wise, and the obedience of fools... the reason for the "no lead solder" rules is to avoid the lead from oceans of crappy consumer products ending up in the landfills. A hobbyist using leaded solder makes sqrt(FA) difference to the environment in the bigger picture.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 10:53:06 pm
content: That's RoHS and it has nothing to do with consumer use.Leaded solder is banned in the EU because somebody really smart determined that it may cause birth defects if ingestedWe should probably request a similar investigation into the fluxes used in lead-free solders now

author: Wimberleytech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 11:02:05 pm
content: Congrats on getting debt free!! You have a great start on your lab. Have fun! And remember: voltage is across, and current is through...not the other way around.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 12:45:36 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on December 29, 2019, 10:23:59 pmLOL at the estimate!Username does NOT check out.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 12:59:05 am
content: @ HobGoblynDon't ever be tempted by that Pb free muck !Some reasonable quality leaded solder and/or with 2% silver is all you'll ever need for hobbyist use.A flux pen comes in handy occasionally too.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 01:56:45 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on December 30, 2019, 12:45:36 amSnPbAg 62/36/2 is my preferred ammunition for electronics. It is the best for precision work. The toughest test I have done with it is to solder leads onto 0.5mm pitch DSBGA chips by hand (just to see if it was possible). No other solder works as well!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 10:40:32 am
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmWow! Your story sounds very much like my own, other than that I'm younger, and thus can't possibly retire now. I also have enjoyed electronics for as long as I can remember, though in my teens I drifted more into computers (though not programming), and that became my career. Repetitive strain injury forced me to leave IT, and I've been out of work for a few years now. During that time, I rediscovered electronics, built up a nice little lab, and have learned a ton. If all goes well, next school year I'll start turning this hobby into a new career.Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmNice setup!! I still need to get a signal generator, that's the one thing I really don't have yet. Well, maybe an electronic load.You will definitely need more than one multimeter (it's not uncommon to need 4 at once, to measure both current and voltage on both an input and an output). But as long as it's not being used on mains AC, you can use cheapies. The Aneng AN8009 is a superb value for this.Another thing to consider is a bench multimeter (by which I mean a modern real one from Keysight, Keithley, Tek/Fluke, Rohde & Schwarz, BK Precision, etc., but not from a cheapie brand like Uni-T or Aneng, who simply put the guts of a handheld meter into a bench case). The reason is speed: my Keithley 2015 (for example) gets a stable reading faster than almost any handheld meter can even finish autoranging. This is more helpful than one might initially realize, as it can let you work faster, as well as see transient changes a bit better. You can get used bench meters at reasonable prices, which is how I got mine. The other advantage to bench meters is that they are just there, ready to use all the time, without consuming bench area. You can't stack handheld meters.Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmIn my personal experience rediscovering it as a hobby: eBay through-hole resistors suck. Though I've had no trouble with the accuracy of the resistors in the assortment I got, the thin leads on the eBay resistors are maddening to work with. They are fine for soldering into boards, but much too thin to put into breadboards. Since name-brand resistors with proper leads are still dirt cheap, go with them instead. You don't need a gazillion values. In my experience, the vast majority of circuits end up needing just the following values:- 10 R- 100, 220, 330, 470 R- 1, 2.2, 3.3, 4.7, 6.8 K- 10, 47, 68 K- 100 Kwith the 100R-10K and 100K probably making up the lion's share. When breadboarding, you can easily use combinations of these to approximate any oddball values you may need (and frankly, it often doesn't matter). So just get a bunch of these values, especially the 1K and 10K, plus a couple each of 1R, 47R, and 1M.On the other hand, with electrolytics, they can get expensive quickly. So I use cheap ones for experimenting, and then use quality ones when actually building the circuit. In my case, I've found I use 1, 10 and 100 μF by far the most, so I'd suggest ordering a bunch of those from eBay, as well as few good quality ones from a real vendor if you spontaneously decide to build a permanent circuit.I'd recommend buying a few of the following (just get them from a reputable vendor since you don't need many):- ~10x rectifier diodes (1N400x)- ~10x signal diodes (1N4148)- ~4x Schottky diodes (1N581x)- 1 each of a few different value zener diodes (just to test how they work)You might want to get some rectangular LEDs (I recommend the 2x3x4mm ones) and prepare them as breadboard indicators by soldering a resistor inline. Those LEDs are thin enough to be able to line up on adjacent breadboard rows (2.54mm pitch), whereas regular 3 or 5mm LEDs are simply too big.Note that historically, one has used somewhere in the ballpark of 330R to light an LED at around 20mA on a 5V line. But modern LEDs (especially blue, white, red and green) are so freaking bright that a 330R results in them being blinding when used as indicators. For modern LEDs as indicators, I use a 6.8K resistor to run the LED at around 0.3mA.Finally, what I don't see on your list at all is MOSFETs. I find these easier to work with than BJTs in many cases. I suggest getting some logic-level n-channel MOSFETs like something in the IRLZ series, for example the IRLZ44N. (Twist the end of the leads 90˚ using flat pliers so that they won't damage the breadboard when inserted!)Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmTweezers. Absolutely essential for working with SMD, but also handy for all manner of other tasks. Invest in a top quality brand -- cheapies work OK, but the imprecisely ground tips just wobble around more. I happen to have a Wiha one and I'm thoroughly pleased with it.If you haven't already, invest in a pair of top qualityforgeddiagonal cutters, like Knipex 77 or 79 series, or Erem, and never, ever let them near anything but copper wire, solder, and soft plastic, so as to maintain their edge. They will reward you with effortless cutting. Try to get a pair with the wire retainer that keeps the snippings from flying across the room. (Regular stamped cutters, even from top brands, aren't quite as precise, and take a bit more effort. Additionally, those struggle with non-wire items like heat shrink tubing, whereas the forged ones will cut those neatly.)Especially if using a silicone mat, be sure to get an antistatic wrist strap. But I'd recommend getting a proper ESD mat instead. They're not expensive, and reduce the risk of damaging anything.Get a gel flux, as it's very handy for tacking down SMD components like resistors until you solder them down.Regarding solder wick: no brand I have ever tried (and I've tried many) even comes close to the MG Chemicals wicks. They have a much finer braid than the others, which just works awesome. And it's not even that expensive! See my old post with pix at:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/desoldering-advice-please-removing-dip-ic_s-without-damage/msg833426/#msg833426Get some silicone tubing, the smallest diameter that will fit onto the tip of your desoldering pump, and cut a length such that it extends 3-5mm beyond the hard tip. Lets you get closer to the joint to suck it away.Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmTest leads?More and more, I've been making my own, so I can optimize them for the things I really do. Since I experiment on breadboards a lot, I've made a bunch of banana-to-male pin cables that plug right into the breadboard. I use pins intended for connectors, as they're a bit more sturdy, and have nicely bulleted points that go in easily. Just make sure the pins do not exceed 0.8mm diameter (not cross-section) so as to not damage the breadboard. The pins I attach to thin (~24AWG) silicone test lead wire and then to banana plugs, using heat shrink to insulate the pin "handles" and create strain relief on the banana end, since banana plugs are all designed for much thicker wire. (Test leads like that are nearly impossible to buy.) I also have a few female pin header to banana cables, for attaching to headers on eBay modules and the like.The other thing I use a lot are mini-grabber to banana and mini-grabber to mini-grabber leads. These are easy to buy, so I don't bother DIYing them.What I do suggest is buying a couple of pairs of high-quality screw-terminal banana plugs that are easy and non-destructive to disassemble (I highly suggest Pomona 1825 for this). Use them with any old stranded wire to make custom cables as you go, and then take them apart when finished. From doing that for a while, it will emerge which test lead configurations and lengths you use over and over, and then you can buy or make permanent versions of those using proper silicone test lead wire and soldered banana plugs. (For this, I like the Stäubli SLS4-B plugs, since they are so compact and versatile, but you may find them difficult to procure outside of Europe.)What I practically never use is alligator clips. So maybe have one pair of alligator to banana cables.The other big thing I don't see on your list is anything Arduino. That's a great way to get started with microcontrollers, which nowadays are an inescapable core competency in electronics. (You, being an experienced programmer, will have a leg up in this!) There are some great Arduino kits on eBay that come with dozens of sensors, displays, and other doohickeys, knick-knacks, and gewgaws. Those are awesome for learning how to interface with real-world peripheral devices, as well as the pitfalls and limitations of the Arduino ecosystem (and why you might eventually leave it for a more "grown up" development environment).I started with an Arduino Mega2560 kit, then got an Arduino Uno, and since then, a bunch of Arduino nano boards, and now I'm beginning to use the bare Atmega microcontrollers. (You'll likely end up wanting more than one Arduino, since it's likely you'll end up with multiple projects in parallel, and switching the same Arduino between projects over and over just gets tedious, in addition to requiring you to be very careful to reprogram itbeforemoving it back into another circuit, lest you feed errant signals into your circuit!)Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmThe eBay stuff is highly likely to be unusable junk.Multicore/Loctite/Stannol (it's all the same company, Henkel) is a great brand, and you'll be very happy with the 60/40. The difference between 63/37 and 60/40 is minuscule, and while I do prefer the former if given the choice, I'd choose a name-brand 60/40 over eBay chinesium 63/37 any day.My daily driver solder is Kester 63/37 in 0.8mm with rosin core ("44" flux). (I'm not sure if I can have it sent to Switzerland any more, due to the same REACH directive, though. Worst case, I'll get it on a visit to USA.) Henkel doesn't make 63/37 any more, but they still do 60/40 and that's a perfectly fine choice if it's easier to get than Kester 63/37.Little tip: if, like me, you only rarely need thick solder, don't buy any. Instead, on the rare cases you need it, just take 2 or more strands of your thin solder and twist them into a rope, which will work every bit as well.Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmKester and Multicore are of equivalent quality (as in, they're the Rolls-Royces of solder). You'll be equally delighted with either, so absolutely no reason to replace the Multicore with Kester.That seems like a quite high price for the Kester, by the way. I think it's a lot less on Digi-Key, and even less on Amazon.Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmTry it out and see how it performs. If it doesn't produce good results, chuck it and order a tube of MG Chemicals solder paste from Amazon.com.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 10:56:07 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on December 29, 2019, 10:23:59 pmThough I completely agree that the lead-free requirement was silly regulation, I cannot agree with your assertion of lead-free being "hopeless" for hobby use. That's just nonsense. Frankly, the quality of soldering iron, solder, and flux makes afarbigger difference than whether it's leaded or lead-free.I use both, and am equally successful in soldering with both. For lead-free I do, however, strongly recommend using SAC305 alloy, and not Sn99/Sn100, as those are much more susceptible to solder bridging than the SAC305. (I would go so far as to say that Sn99/Sn100 is really not ideal for beginners.) Other than requiring the iron to be set about 20C higher, SAC305 behaves very much like leaded solder.Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 01:56:45 amReally? What I've read/heard repeatedly is that SnPbAg 62/36/2 is actually slightly harder to work with than 63/37, and thus really only makes sense when working with silver-plated terminals like on old Tek gear, ceramic hybrids, and some SMD components, where you need to prevent silver plate from dissolving.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 11:21:17 am
content: I like this stuff.https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/solders/2294308/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 12:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on December 30, 2019, 11:21:17 amWell, he got the 0.5mm version of that, so I'm certain he'll be happy with it.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 30, 2019, 10:56:07 amI learned to solder when I was a kid, using a Weller 100/140W gun to do electronics work. Hey, it's what I had! Trial by fire... I still have one, for jobs where too much heat is conducted away from the point being soldered for a regular iron to do a good job.I don't disagree violently with anything you have said, but the higher melting point of lead free makes soldering a little more difficult and lead free is not really compatible with older equipment that you may be working on (lifting tracks etc.). In my experience, SnPbAg mixes very well with old and new solder (both leaded and lead free) and reliably yields beautiful shiny joints in pretty much all situations. To me, it is simpler to just always use it.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 06:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 30, 2019, 10:40:32 amMany many many thanks for your reply. Appreciate the time etc you've spent and it's very helpfulAs it stands, I have about £450 left to spend, I obviously don't want to waste it, but it's available if needed.I will order the items you suggest and see how I go.Have looked on ebay, cheapest I can find the Keithley 2015 is £450, something I may consider in the future.Looking at other brands, the ones you listed, I can only find BK Precision, there's this one which is affordable, but I'm no expert, so don't know how good a deal it is.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BK-Precision-2831D-4-5-Digit-True-RMS-Bench-Digital-Multimeter-Set-of-3-Untested/274126037819?epid=1904458474&hash=item3fd32f633b:g:MzAAAOSwkiVd5sXd

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 09:38:24 am
content: There's no need to rush. I think most people here will agree that, once you've got the basics, the best approach is to buy things as you discover you need them. (Yes, it's frustrating to not have it at the moment you need it, but it prevents stocking up on crap you never use.) For example, I know I need a function generator because on many occasions, I've been forced to use a phone app to generate signals (limiting it to audio frequencies, of course, among other limitations), or the super-basic square wave generators in some of my multimeters. So you'll discover what you need as you go. IMHO, other than the little things I mentioned, you've got a great setup already. Given the remaining budget, I think you'd be better off (for now) ordering a few $12 Aneng meters than blowing the rest of your budget on a bench meter, nice as they may be. If you google for it, there's an instruction somewhere on how to add some capacitors to the Aneng that makes them perform even better than they do out of the box.I'm no expert on the BK Precision gear, but given that those are LED, they're probably too old to have the high speed that I find to be a bench meter's big advantage. (FYI, handheld meters, and old bench meters, generally have update rates of 2-5 times per second, vs the tens/hundreds/thousands/millions of updates per second of later bench meters.) Stick with a few handheld meters for now and see how you do.The only meter speed thing I think is REALLY important is having a really good continuity tester. (Obviously, one single meter with this is sufficient.) Fluke is the hands-down champion in this, but what's really surprising is that a lot of cheap meters with mediocre continuity testers actually are being limited by their intolerance of crappy probes, and pairing them with high quality gold-plated probes improves their performancedramatically. The Aneng is a perfect example of this — continuity is "meh" with the included probes, and great with gold probes. Many of us on the forum (myself included) swear by Probe Master probes, since they are top-notch and nonetheless not particularly costly. One of the forum mods, Simon, even resells them in the UK. The other highly recommended gold probes are from Brymen. These are a bit more traditional looking than the Probe Master, and easier to procure outside of USA.A forum member, Franky,is well-known for having a reliable eBay store where many forum members go for test leads, including the gold Brymen probes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 09:55:04 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pmIMHO, for new construction, the higher melting point (requiring a hotter iron) has one main disadvantage for beginners, which is that the added heat causes the solder to oxidize faster, so you really can't dawdle and rework, as novice solderers often do.On the other hand, Icompletelyagree with you that lead-free solder is totally unsuited for repairing pre-RoHS devices, as the older boards and components definitely were not designed to take that kind of heat. This alone should be reason enough for leaded solder to remain available to hobbyists, who may need to repair older gear. (The geniuses behind RoHS and REACH don't think of such things...)Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pmI'm sure it does, but I don't find it burdensome to keep both kinds in my lab, so I use 63/37 and SAC305, depending on the job.Quote from: SilverSolder on December 30, 2019, 04:17:32 pmWell, one has to understand that solder shine isn't the same joint quality criterion in lead-free as in leaded. Lead-free is VERY hard to get glossy joints with, but it's also not necessary. A consistent, clean, but satin-finish joint is perfectly fine in lead-free. It shouldn't be dull/matte, but it needn't be a mirror shine. Aesthetics aren't reason enough to dismiss lead-free altogether. (As an aside, I actually find it easier to inspect the satiny lead-free joints, as they don't reflect the surrounding components as much as the mirror shine of leaded.)

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 02:17:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 31, 2019, 09:55:04 am? ? ?Je suis une ARTISTE, m. Tooki! - if it don't look good, it ain't good!

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 03:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmPlease don't buy solder from no-name brands from eBay. Should be safe if they're Multicore/Kester or other well known brands, even if they're old stock like 5-10 years old... flux inside the wire is relatively stable and will last for years inside the solder, and worst case scenario you can drag the solder wire through the folded napkin wet with isopropyl alcohol or acetone, to clean whatever oxides and impurities are now on the surface of the wire due to being stocked for so long time.63/37 solder is very good, but I don't think you should get 0.4mm, it's a bit too thin. I personally use 0.56mm thick Multicore.As for liquid flux, I use flux from a Polish company AG Thermopasty, which you can buy from TME.eu in big bottles :long TME.eu linkScroll down to bottles. No-clean and RMA are fairly safe. The RMA ones are a bit more active, may need to be removed with isopropyl alcohol afterwards... stay away from water soluble and try to avoid "organic" / "green" fluxes as they're more toxic for your lungs when they're burnt by the iron tip.TME is a distributor like Farnell or RS-Components or Digikey, I ordered from them in the past, they're safe to buy fromThey also have cheaper LEDs and passives like resistors, capacitors etc, not as cheap as LCSC or chinese sellers on eBay but you also don't spend weeks waiting for your packages.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 30, 2019, 10:40:32 amCompletely new to MOSFETs.RS has:IRLZ34NPBF (£2.40 each)IRLZ44NPBF (£2.40 each)IRLZ44ZPBF (£4.68 for 5)IRLZ24NPBF (84p each)IRLZ24PBF (£1.91 for 5)IRLZ14PBF (76p each)Do I need a few of each type? Happy to spend, but haven't a clueQuoteI have a set, but they didn't cost a lot, and I find the ends of many to be very sharp and bend incredibly easily, so shall splash out on a decent pair.QuoteI have a pair of cheap cutters, but not very good.Will these be OK or do I need to spend more?https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cutters/1585710/When you say only to use them on copper and solder, does that mean I need something else to cut the legs off caps and resistors?QuoteI've got one of those kits (Uno) with every sensor known to mankindWill also order a few clone uno/nano and mega boardsMany thanks

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 04:12:56 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on December 31, 2019, 03:51:21 pmSomething likehttps://www.tme.eu/gb/details/te410_1/fluxes/cynel/I presume I should avoid lead free flux as I'm using lead solder?Many thanks

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 04:28:36 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:12:56 pmI can't vouch for Cynel, which as far as I know is some Spanish brand. In the past, I checked reviews of solders on Youtube and Cynel solders weren't great compared to others. I don't know how well the fluxes are, they may be ok, I just can't recommend them as I never personally used them.I use the fluxes from AG Thermopasty, in particular the TK series (no clean, rosin based, can be left on board after use, it's not so active to require cleaning) :50ml :https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/flux-tk_50/fluxes/ag-termopasty/art-agt-044/100ml :https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/flux-tk_100/fluxes/ag-termopasty/art-agt-045/Lead free flux can be used with leaded solder.Flux doesn't have lead anyway, so the term is somewhat incorrect. Basically, when they say lead free, they just mean it's a flux formula that's optimized for lead free solders, which require higher temperature to melt (you need 180c for 60/40 or 183 for 63/37 but ~215-217c for lead free solders, so you often can live with 300c set on iron tips with leaded solders, but may need 350c on lead free solders).So, the idea is these lead free fluxes are a bit stronger because they have to activate and do their work in much shorter time, before the higher heat from the solder iron tip burns the flux.Stronger fluxes means worse for your lungs if you breathe in the flux vaporsTo add to this thread, I'd suggest also buying a crimping tool for making your own connectors, if you didn't already buy one.A very good one is this one, which can crimp lots of series of connectors from AWG 28 to AWG18 wires :https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/fut.pa-20/crimping-tools-for-terminals/engineer/pa-20/It's expensive, but worth it.And if you place order at TME, you may want to consider buying a bottle of isopropyl alcohol (for electronics, you can get 97% or better), they have them in bottles up to 1 liter :https://www.tme.eu/gb/katalog/?search=isopropyl%20alcohol&s_field=1000014&s_order=desc&limit=20&currency=GBP&page=1

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 05:08:18 pm
content: Quote from: magic on December 29, 2019, 10:53:06 pmIt looks like hunters have no restriction and can go on spreading lead into the environment (17500 tons per year in Italy alone).BTW a while ago I read that game eaters have high levels of lead in their body because bullets fragment in many small pieces and so it is not possible to completely remove it from the meat.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 06:43:37 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on December 31, 2019, 04:28:36 pmMany thanks I will order the 100ml, would much rather order something someone can vouch for than do a lucky dipQuoteI will add that to my orderI bought 1lt of 99% isopropyl alcohol a couple of weeks agoMany thanks for your helpI'm very nearly there

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 06:54:38 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pmNah. I'd just go for whatever's cheapest, so in this case, the IRLZ24PBF 5-pack for 1.91. It's a nice part with balanced characteristics that'll do fine for experimenting with a few amps load (for example, PWM dimming an LED strip using an Arduino or 555 timer). Later, if/when you have a specific use case in mind, you can go about choosing an optimized part (e.g. one optimized for speed vs one optimized for higher current).Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pmRS seems to have a lot of name-brand tweezers with variously sharp points, and likely any of them would be fine.I know Idealtek is a good brand, made in Switzerland, and nonetheless not expensive:https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/tweezers/7870279/(bare)https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/tweezers/1367337/(with grippy black paint, like mine)https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/tweezers/1367329/(with foam handles)(These are the same shape/size as my Wiha tweezers, the "AA SA" type. There seems to be some agreement between manufacturers about these designations.)Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pmThose will do perfectly. In fact, I was just looking at those in a store the other day and was very impressed by them. The jaws are very, very precisely made.RS also carries a wide selection of Idealtek cutters and pliers. I don't have any personal experience with them, but I'd expect them to be of equivalent quality. (I talk about Knipex stuff because I have lots of hands-on experience with it.)Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pmI apologize, I oversimplified.Basically, the idea is to avoid cutting excessively hard and/or thick wire. Copper, aluminum, lead, plastic, etc. are all very soft and electronics-thickness wire will not damage the blades. Steel covers a large range of hardnesses, but the thin steel of electronic components will absolutely not be a problem. The main purpose of these cutters is to trim component legs, cut thin wires, and trim small zip ties, so you'll definitely be fine cutting those. Just don't be tempted to cut piano wire, wire fencing and things like that with them.If you look at theKnipex catalog, it lists the maximum capacity for its cutters, for soft, medium, and hard wires, and for super-hard wire like piano wire. For example, on that model, 1.6mm/1.2/0.6mm/- diameter, respectively. (The limits are also printed right on the handle of the cutters!) So you wouldn't use these cutters to cut nails, nor would you use them to cut 6mm thick copper mains wiring. Not that you'd want to given their size!Speaking of Knipex, I just remembered two things you might consider, if you don't already own some: round-nose pliers (like 35 32 115) and flat-jaw pliers (like 35 12 115). I've come to rely on these constantly for forming component legs, bending wires, etc. The round-nose ones don't need the tight precision of the cutters and flat-jaw pliers, so if you need to economize, they're the ones where I would go cheaper, just make sure they're small.Reichelt, a German mail-order vendor with an explicit UK site, carries a much larger Knipex selection than RS, and at lower prices. In fact, they have the same round-nose pliers I have (the 34 32 130) on sale now for £25:https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/precision-electronics-gripping-pliers-round-pointed-kn-34-32-130-p66314.html?&trstct=pol_4The 77 02 115 cutters are £28:https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/side-cutters-115-mm-small-bevel-kn-77-02-115-p24879.html?&trstct=pol_5And the 35 12 115 flat-jaw pliers for £23:https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/electronics-gripping-pliers-115-mm-flat-wide-jaws-kn-35-12-115-p24896.html?&trstct=pol_2They also carry Knipex tweezers that appear identical to my daily-driver Wiha:https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/precision-tweezers-esd-kn-92-28-69-esd-p184292.html?&trstct=pol_1Even with £9 shipping, you'd likely come out ahead on those, plus they have many other Knipex models, too.Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 31, 2019, 04:04:13 pmOK, then you're set!In fact, maybe just wait on the mega (just get one if you actually exceed the capabilities of an uno/nano) and just get a couple of $2 uno/nano clones from eBay so you aren't monopolizing the one Uno.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 07:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: not1xor1 on December 31, 2019, 05:08:18 pmThis. So much this. Where's the goofy oldmarqueetag when you need it?Ammunition accounts forfarmore environmental lead than electronics ever did:this article (German) from 2015says that in Switzerland, lead ammunition was responsible for "more than twice as much [environmental lead] as transportation, commerce, and industrycombined". (Emphasis mine.) 200 tons annually. And that'safterthe 1998 and 2012 restrictions on using lead shot for waterfowl.And despite that, the entire electronics industry had to give up lead? Absurd. Talk about not going for the low-hanging fruit first...<off topic> Honest but rhetorical question: I wonder if low-level lead poisoning is responsible for gun lovers' attitudes that we gun opponents find incomprehensible... </ot>

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 07:54:48 pm
content: If a hunter or gun aficionado gets inadvertent lead exposure from their hobby, I suspect they are more concerned with bleeding than lead toxicity.I agree the environmental deposition is a concern, but other than eating/smoking after handling ammo (most of what you handle is copper/brass anyway), I doubt they get much lead in their system from the hobby.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 08:33:15 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on December 31, 2019, 07:54:48 pmHell yeah !I much prefer to stay on the safe end of a firearm.QuoteYet for hunting in some countries use of homogeneous copper/alloy projectiles is now mandatory.Apparently all the wars that mankind has ever had throwing lead musket balls and large caliber projectiles in themillionsbillions is of little concern whereas the use of the modern small high power firearms for hunting with devastating terminal efficiency on game where a very high percentage are taken with just a single shot is of greater concern for the anti lead zealots.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 08:47:29 pm
content: It's anti-gun zealots, the anti-lead ones are concerned with pregnant mothers eating solder pasteI researched this EU ban a while ago and it came as a result of pedantic enforcement of some general regulation that teratogens are not supposed to be available in consumer products. I'm surprised that there is even an exception for ammo, all other lead alloys for any purpose are banned too.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 12:48:12 am
content: Although I should only speak for myself but many of us here grew up with lead painted toys ,mercury thermometers, lawn darts ,peanuts,and gluten. Look how many of us survived. It's astounding. We now live in a society of obsessive compulsive neurotics and Eviro-Nazis that presume to live forever in a Utopian world. Good luck with that .Some of these people need more counselling than I do.Most legislation is base less on facts and more on probable re-election. Case in point is California .Apparently everything will cause cancer.With reasonable use and proper ventilation, lead solder is just as safe to use now as it was before. If by chance someone does decide to chew on a electronic board they'll most likely die from electrical shock before the lead has any effect.Either case ,chalk one more up for Darwins Law.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 06:34:29 am
content: Quote from: Jwillis on January 01, 2020, 12:48:12 amThe main and most dangerous source of lead was tetraethyl lead.Most restriction on usage of heavy metals are right and based on solid scientific reasons.The problem is that politicians usually are more sensible to the interests of powerful lobbies than to science facts (and in most cases they have absolutely no understanding of that matter).Here in Italy, hunters are still around 7-800 000 (they used to be more than 1 700 000 forty years ago). Most of them are organized in associations and supported by rich manufacturers of weapons, specialized garment and gadgets and unfortunately they have the right to vote.With the new politicians arising in the continent (it looks like a remake of theDumb and Dumbermovie orIdiocracy) they are likely to go on with their right to pollute for a while longer and more than ever.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 08:40:44 am
content: Quote from: tooki on December 31, 2019, 07:10:39 pmIt's also after REACH and RoHS. They have gone after the low hanging fruit first

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 08:41:22 am
content: Quote from: not1xor1 on January 01, 2020, 06:34:29 amThat's why I'm so looking forward to a viable drop-in replacement fuel for 100LL for aviation piston engines.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 01:21:54 pm
content: Quote from: magic on January 01, 2020, 08:40:44 amMy point was that the trivial amounts of lead in electronics solder isnotthe low-hanging fruit. That would be the much, much larger amounts of lead in ammunition and gasoline (which in many countries still has lead in aviation fuel, even if it was eliminated from automobile fuel).Car batteries also contain huge amounts of lead, but since the recycling rate on car batteries is very high, little of that ends up in the environment.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 11:36:43 pm
content: I’ve now ordered everything recommended in this thread:)Looking forwards it all turning up. I got all 4 of the tools tooki linked to on Reichet’s site, I also ordered the flux and crispers mariush linked to.Also got most of the other bits and pieces (still have a few test leads to get)So far my only slight annoyance is that one vid I watched suggested getting an 0805 sample book, I found the following on eBayhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0805-Practical-SMD-1-Resistor-And-Capacitor-Kits-Pack-Box-Component-Sample-Book/312614474728?hash=item48c94653e8:g:aIkAAOSwnktc3ndsAnd stupidly didn’t read the description properly. It only contained resistors. I contacted the guy and said I’m happy to keep it, but he should take the word capacitor out of the title, but his response was that the actual description was clear. Personally, as there’s only one book to buy (it’s not a listing with different book choices) , I disagree, but life’s too short to worry, will hunt eBay for a few cheap 0805 caps.Thanks everyone for all the advice

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 12:10:18 am
content: You could just order 25-50-100pcs out of every capacitor you need.You won't need 170 unique values, just limit yourself to the most common, like the E12 series for example:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_series_of_preferred_numbers#ListsE12 values (10% tolerance)1.0, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, 2.2, 2.7, 3.3, 3.9, 4.7, 5.6, 6.8, 8.2E24 values (5% tolerance)1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.5, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, 3.0, 3.3, 3.6, 3.9, 4.3, 4.7, 5.1, 5.6, 6.2, 6.8, 7.5, 8.2, 9.1So for example get 10nF, 12nF..82nF,100nF, 120 nF .. 820nF , 1uF, 1.2uF, 1.5uF...8.2uF, 10uF....100uFWe're talking about maybe 12x3-4 = ~50 unique resistor values.Use NPO/COG for very low values, X7R/X5R for let's say anything above 1uF ... voltage rating 25v or higher, that's what you'll probably get in 0805 packageIf you check tme.eu you can quickly select 12 values and the voltage range and the quality (npo/cog/x7r/x5r) and then sort results by price for the qty you plan to get.It would take you maybe 1h or so to pick all of them.You can also pick more of the ones that are often used like 100, 220, 330, 470, 820 ... i'd say these are the most common used.Above 10uF, consider electrolytic capacitors or polymer capacitors. Aim for 105c rated, low impedance capacitors... lots of kits will have general purpose capacitors which often aren't suitable to repair electronics but can be used in hobby projects.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 12:24:46 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on January 01, 2020, 11:36:43 pmI did eventually buy an SMD ceramic cap kit, since I kept needing them, but consider instead just buying an empty SMD binder (as in, one with empty plastic inserts, just no components) and then ordering some of the most common values. I'd actually go even narrower than mariush suggests, like perhaps just 1.0, 1.5, 2.2, 4.7 per decade (with as many of the 1.0 as the other 3 combined). I find I use 100nF (104) more than anything else, but sometimes 10nF (103) and 1nF (102). Anything higher is electrolytic, and I just don't do the kinds of things that use smaller values. (Other than crystal oscillator load capacitors, which I just purchase as needed, since that's a relatively picky application.)Actually this reminds me of one other suggestion I had: organization. How to store and organize tools and parts quickly becomes an issue. People have different ways of doing it, so just start thinking about it already — do you want boxes? Tubs? Drawers? Baggies? Binders? How will you label them — printed labels? Handwritten labels? Marker? And how do you want them sorted?As for the ebay vendor... ::sigh:: Maybe try reminding them one more time that thedescriptionis accurate, but the listingtitleis not. I hate how the Chinese vendors pack their listing titles with all sorts of imprecise, related terms, rather than accurate ones so that you can exclude the stuff you don't want.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 05:03:45 pm
content: Is the capacitor voltage simply the maximum voltage it can take?In other words, is there any difference in using say a 200v or 100v or a 50v cap on a circuit that's less than 50v?Thought I'd check before I order my 0805'sMany thanks

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 05:55:47 pm
content: Yes, the voltage rating is the maximum voltage the capacitor can handle.With electrolytic capacitors, you may often see capacitors rated for higher voltage than needed because other technical properties of the capacitor are dependant on the internal volume of the capacitor. So for example, on computer power supplies you may see 10v rated electrolytic capacitors on the 3.3v and 5v outputs, even though a 6.3v rated capacitor could have been used, simply because the 10v rated capacitor has the same diameter and it's maybe just a few mm taller, and due to bigger volume it may have lower ESR and higher lifetime rating.Ceramic capacitors have capacitance that varies with voltage and temperature : a 1 uF 16v rated ceramic capacitor will not be 1uF when used with 12v, it will be less.See this PDF for a good explanation :Temperature and Voltage Variation of CeramicCapacitors, or Why Your 4.7μF Capacitor Becomes a 0.33μF Capacitorhttps://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5527.pdfFor this reason and others, you will often see 0402 or 0603 16v or 25v rated ceramic capacitors used with 3.3v chips, for example, when 6.3v or 10v rated would be safe.For decoupling capacitors (0.01uF, 0.047uF, 0.1uF for example) you may see even 35-50v rated capacitors used because the capacity is so small.For ceramic capacitors I would say don't buy anything rated for less than 16v unless very expensive (ex 4.7uF ceramics may be expensive at high voltage ratings)For electrolytic or polymer capacitors, I would suggest 35v or 50v rating for anything under 100uF as they're all gonna be about the same diameter (<8mm) and above 100uF, the most common voltages are 6.3v (only useful to you if you'll want to repair electronics and you need to replace a capacitor and you can't use bigger capacitors) , 10v (can be used for any low voltage chip like 2.5v,3.3v, 5v, with lithium batteries etc) , 16v (for use with 12v parts like fans, relays, computer power supplies) and less often 25v (common in older lcd monitors and useful if you decide to power circuits with laptop adapters that output 16.5-20v)later edit :Also, you shouldn't be afraid of 0603 parts, they're just a bit smaller than 0805 and still quite easy to solder, even if you're older.0805 fits very well between 2 pins of a header with 0.1" space between holes, so they're great to use on prototyping boards or between pins of a DIP chip, but 0603 is also capable of this and just a bit smaller (with a bit extra solder on the pads you can easily use a 0603 instead of 0805)The reason I mention it is because you may find 0603 much cheaper and easier to find compared to 0805, as factories most likely focus their production on smaller parts to sell more volume. You may find you can order 100 or 250 pcs for the same price of 50 0805 parts, so it would be worth going with 0603 in that case.

author: Johnboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 07:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on December 29, 2019, 06:43:31 pmJust thought I should point out that "Learning The Art of Electronics" is the companion volume to thethirdedition of "The Art of Electronics" and not the second edition. The companion volume for the second edition is called "Student Manual for the Art of Electronics".If you've already bought the books, don't panic. The third edition of the main textbook complements the second edition; a lot of people hang on to the second edition anyway, as it does contain some things that were not updated/added to the new edition (and a dedicated RF chapter in particular, IIRC). At one point during the writing, the 3rd edition was described by Winfield Hill as a sort of "additional" volume, rather than standalone ("keep your 2nd edition" he said), but from what I've seen of it they may have eventually dropped that angle. The first chapters of each, at least, are virtually identical.As to the companion volumes:I have not actually had a look at "Learning the Art of Electronics" to see what has been changed from the earlier "Student Manual for the Art of Electronics", but there are others on this forum who might supply that information. You may just have to do some hunting around within the newer lab manual to see what best applies to the layout of the older textbook.Edited for clarity, name error

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 11:42:42 pm
content: Quote from: Johnboy on January 02, 2020, 07:59:39 pmThanks. I bought the 2nd edition second hand, ex library book, and didn’t cost much at all.I was also going to order the 3rd edition in a few weeks, but according to the “Learning the Art of Electronics” that I’ve just had delivered, it states in the preface,Quote

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 02:53:14 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:24:46 pmHehe, a lot of the stuff arrived today.I have a 5ft x 3ft (152cm x 91cm) table.It looked big with nothing on it.Am now hunting through the likes of amazon to find suitable storageSadly, at present, I don't have a permanent place, the table is our dining room table (mind you, it's only used a few times a year), so no shelves etc.many thanks

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 08:41:49 am
content: Oh man don’t I know that problem. My bedroom currently looks like a war zone or post-earthquake disaster scene, just from pulling out tubs to get to the tools and parts I needed to build some test leads yesterday, and some breadboard tinkering...This is one aspect where I do wish I were rich, so that I could have a separate 1000sqft/100sqm workshop, half electronics, half mechanical. But with Zurich rent, that ain’t happening...

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 09:22:51 pm
content: Started putting my lab together.Already completely run out of space.Attached pics show table, anti static connector, table with all main bits on it.As I can't put shelves up, going to make a shelf that sits on the table along the lines of my final attached pic. Then hopefully I will have space for components and tools

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 08:48:55 pm
content: 13 days later and I'm finished. Bound to be lots of reorganisation as I start learning, bound to be things I've forgotten.Pleased how it's turned out so far, time will tellOnly mistake is for some reason I ordered the wrong 68 ohm resistors, they are 2W and about 4 times the size of the others, so need to order the correct ones.Here's many pics of the finished product. Last 2 pics are my Arduino stuff.I also got a box of 630 Electolytic capacitors going from 0.1uf to 1000uf that I forgot to take a pic ofNow to start making things