Introduction GST for <$1000 goods (Australia) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: adam1213
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 12:50:29 pm
content: What are everyones thoughts on the introduction of GST for goods less than < $1000 on or before July 1 2017 (http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/08/all-goods-bought-overseas-to-incur-10-per-cent-gst-charge/).It would be interesting to see a proper response from the government in regards to the fact that Productivity Commission "previously ruled that lowering [the GST threshold] would cost more money to enforce than it would collect," rather than side stepping the question.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 01:16:11 pm
content: No threshold at all... You are screwed. When here threshold was made EUR 11 it just sucked a lot, when it was rised to EUR 22, life became a bit easier. Seems that you'll have a tough luck buying <$10 ebay items. Dave's mailbag will be screwed too. Shipping items with something like DHL will become PITA^2. Also, taxing everything without threshold, they'll need triple their bureaucratic apparatus to manage that, guess what, it will cost more than taxes collected.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 01:23:08 pm
content: Quote from: adam1213 on August 21, 2015, 12:50:29 pmBingo.It used to be $300 or so IIRC a long time ago, and they raised it to $1000 because it was costing too much to process.It would also lead to massive delays and backlogs. Can you imagine every $5 widget from China bought on ebay having to be processed by customs? Insane.We will become the new Germany.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 01:39:04 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 21, 2015, 01:23:08 pmThey check all packages here in DenmarkThe limit is US$ 11, more than that amount you have to pay 25% VAT.But the worst is that "DK Mail" is allowed to charge $21 in VAT handling fee, for claiming the VAT for DK customs.The fee of $21 makes sure that nothing slips through "DK Mail", as they make $$$$$ on that account.That sucks big time , and make the *Bay "Global Shipping Program" attractive for some buys.I wish we had 22€ as a limit , i can't even buy a "Arduino Mega board" wo. getting caught in customs./Bingo

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 03:03:11 pm
content: I got the impression from some reports today, that the intention isn't for the government to raise money, but more to cause pain to people buying stuff direct from overseas. To 'help local businesses' by making people buy locally.Which contains several doubtful absurdities:- The idea of government ever doing something for anyone else's good, rather than to maximize tax rakeoff to themselves.- That even with GST on top, it won't still be cheaper to buy from China rather than through local middle men and their 100% margins.- That it would actually be possible to enforce.- That government won't massively screw up as usual.- That this would make any difference to the terminal implosion of Australian manufacturing industry.- That there'll actually be any world economic activity by July 2017 anyway (the way things are going.)My suggestion would be along the lines of 'just shoot them all.'

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 03:57:00 pm
content: Agreed with all the above. The original $300 limit is bearable, but definitely not economical, but $0 is suicide !!Many will just bring stuff in as a business (manufacturer or wholesaler), and claim it back anyway.

author: yodhe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 04:51:43 pm
content: I think the intention is to ensure no overseas seller will sell to Australians.According to this :-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-21/gst-to-be-applied-to-all-products-services-sold-by-vendors/6715582Hockey said "What it effectively means is that we're going to have taxation officials travel around the world and visiting these companies and asking them to register for GST purposes."I doubt foreign sellers will bother selling stuff to us just to avoid the administrative hassle.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 03:07:19 am
content: They need to pay for the joy fights somehow so now we are the ones that get taken for a ride....http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/politics-news/bronwyn-bishop-stands-firm-amid-chartered-helicopter-furore/story-fn59nqld-1227447041658

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 10:19:34 am
content: Paying GST on some goods will not stop me from buying from overseas.Recently I bought a textbook from the US. Cost me US$38, A$54. Adding 10% GST will still make it cheaper than the $110 the book is selling locally for.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 10:27:21 am
content: Mr Harvey Norman wanted this, He has 1,000 race horses and thinks people are stealing from him when they get something from ebay, which is why people are leaving australia and fighting for Al-Qaeda because they probably don't have $1500 fines for garbage bins put out too early, they let kids sit in the front seat, and they don't impose tax on ebay purchases, but they probably would let bronwyn bishop fly in a helicopter to the local dry cleaners to pick up her hair.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 10:39:21 am
content: Govt is making noises about lowering the limits here in NZ too.Currently we have 15% GST added to all goods (including shipping) over US$300 value, this equates to ~NZ$400 at present exchange rates.But first they're proposing to tax all online data purchases; music, software, movies etc.It seems the method they will use is to enforce sellers to register before they are eligible to sell to NZ'ers.Good luck enforcing that I say.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 10:41:03 am
content: I think the government may as well try to collect the GST if they think they can.It might be easy to get it from the customers of the larger companies.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 10:41:56 am
content: QuoteIn NZ they solved that problem by adding fees. I imported a 3d printer which fell just over the $400 threshold and was charged $120 NZD - $60 was GST and $60 was an assortment of fixed fees.In addition it delayed the shipment by 2 days despite the fact that DHL already had my customs registration on file and I paid over the phone when they called. If something happens to come in on a courier you haven't used before it takes 4 or 5 days longer.They are currently talking about dropping the threshold here too. What a mess that will be...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 10:55:12 am
content: As long as the new limit is above NZ$125 we should be fine

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:00:16 am
content: There are plenty of alternatives to fleabay.Also, drones being so cheap and plentiful, it's about time you sent things overseas that way. HA!

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:01:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 21, 2015, 01:23:08 pmThere seems to be an assumption that deliveries arrive in packages via post. I'd like to see them try and do this with software or licenses which are downloaded. Are they going to visit every software vendor and hassle them into collecting taxes for the Horse-trailer Guvmint?

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:15:42 am
content: Just about everything I've bought from overseas was a "gift or sample", it said so on the label.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:27:14 am
content: Quote from: DrGeoff on August 22, 2015, 11:01:14 amTell that to the NZ government, who last week announced that they are going to do just that. Virtual products/services from overseas vendors, will be liable for GST, the overseas vendors will have to register with the NZ government, collect and remit GST on their sales. Coloquially, a "netflix tax".Yes, I am 100% serious. This is really what they are planning.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:40:36 am
content: how about less OVERBEARING force-feeding people coming off jet airplanes at the airport ALCOHOL "DUTY FREE" and more "duty free" on cheap healthy crap we actually want.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 12:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on August 22, 2015, 11:27:14 amSame here, though they want to have every film, video, picture approved by the Censorship board ( sorry, Film and Publications board), along with every blog post. This after just killing the tourism industry by requiring all children under 18 to travel in with both an original unabridged birth certificate, a passport and original letters of permission from both parents if not with both, along with having it stamped by a Consulate, and then not training the officials at entry points in to what they actually look like in other countries, then charging for the service if you are refused, along with charging for the holding cell and the deportation flight.Just arrive after 5PM and they will not be there anyway........

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 12:06:15 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on August 22, 2015, 11:27:14 amAnd when they say no, because it is an extra and unnecessary expense on the business, what will the Guvmint do then? Use their network filter to ban any connection to that software vendor?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:14:20 pm
content: I'm not bothered so much. In fact, I support raising the GSTgenerallybut only if concessions are made elsewhere. Here's my reasoning:GST is a consumption tax. It doesn't apply to basic foods (such as fresh fruit and vegetables, bread, meat and most dairy), some medical products and services, supply of water etc... In other words, those essential items are mostly GST-free. On the other hand, all the other stuff that Ichooseto buy is taxed.Everyone knows that the money for all the services and infrastructure has got to come from somewhere but I hear so many people in this country bitch and moan about paying extra taxes but are more than happy to be consumers of the system. Last financial year I paid over $30,000 in tax (and that's not including tax paid on GST items, fuel taxes etc...), yet I never use the Medicare system, I don't receive any benefits and I don't have children (although I seem to be paying for other people's kids to go to childcare). I'd be more than happy to pay every time I needed to see a doctor if it meant I was saving almost $1500/yr for a Medicare system I didn't use.... but that's just me and I realise that my situation doesn't work for everyone.So I had two ideas:1. Everyone pays more in GST (i.e.: on products theychooseto buy and therefore have greater control on how much tax they pay as individuals) but reduce taxes elsewhere where consumers have little to no control (Medicare, fuel, income tax...). I'd also support raising taxes on totally non-essential items such as alcohol and cigarettes. Essentially "flatten" the entire tax system so it's less complex.or2. Develop a system where tax payers can "opt out" of certain taxes, but contribute more or "opt in" to others. For example, I might opt out of paying the Medicare levy which meant I would no longer be entitled to Medicare and would have to pay my own doctors bill. Obviously the admin involved in implementing this sort of system is tricky, which is where raising the GST works better.Above all, I'd like a greater say in wheremyhard-earned tax dollars go.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 12:13:34 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2015, 11:14:20 pmIt would be annoying to find out that those tax dollars have been used to subsidise an inefficient tax collection system where tax officers are jollying around the globe trying to convince offshore companies to collect tax on their behalf, which they have no obligation to do so. I think the cost of compliance and collection is going to far outstrip the receipts, and the complications in applying this to online transactions is even more difficult and expensive. A common-sense approach would have been more appropriate rather than trying to appease the retail lobby. As the currency fluctuates in a downward trend, so too will the offshore spending.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 12:30:21 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on August 22, 2015, 11:27:14 amThey seem to be only going after big overseas companies who market in NZ.like Netflix, Amazon etc.Large online retail outlets often have similar deals already in place with other countries for collecting local GST. So asking them to add NZ to the list and collect NZ gst is simpleThey are never going to be able to collect GST from online sales of smaller stores. There's just to many to deal with and it would be a logistics nightmare.How they plan to collect GST on the vast number of low value packages entering NZ im not sure. I suspect after a careful investigation they will conclude it's too hard and maybe just drop the $400 limit a little, $300 maybe

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 03:07:06 am
content: Quote from: bingo600 on August 21, 2015, 01:39:04 pmThat's very clever.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 04:21:59 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2015, 11:14:20 pmFWIW GST applies to everything in NZ. IMHO the Oz way doesn't really make sense as it increases the complexity and hence the costs of the tax - presumably it had to be watered down due to political pressure when GST was introduced. Instead what they could have done was reduce the income tax for the lowest tax bracket to compensate for those who could not afford the tax on the essentials.Quote from: Halcyon on August 22, 2015, 11:14:20 pmAh user pays, which is a double edged sword. It's all good until you can't pay for whatever reason and get booted out of hospital.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 05:32:01 am
content: Im not looking forward to no duty free imports anymore.However, the aus government can negotiate with ebay/amazon for them to collect tax on behalf of the sellers. Skim another 10% off sale price. Amazon already bill you tax for goods over 1k. They could put a barcode on cn22 docket etc for customs to see duty already collected. Would remove burden from small sellers.I get the impressions only companies turning over 75k or something anyhow. Not sure if duty/gst should apply to used goods sold on ebay etc.I remember getting burned on the $400 old system. Fedex demand the money before delivery a package.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 06:10:00 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on August 21, 2015, 03:03:11 pmFrom the electronics enthusiast's point of view this development seems to follow this government's agenda to stifle any growth in technology.Aside from overseas where the hell else am I supposed to get T&M equipment, development boards/tools or decently priced components?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 10:39:38 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 23, 2015, 06:10:00 amYou say that ironically, as if you believe it isn't actually their intention to stifle any growth in technology in Australia.But this is EXACTLY what they intend. The Oz government is fully on board with the NWO de-industrialization agenda. The idea is that all industry is baaad, and the sooner all the plebs drop dead the sooner the Elites can enjoy a planet with only about 500 to 800 million total population, very few of whom will have the benefits of any technology at all. They're also very willing to do everything they can to assist with the 'go and drop dead' part. De-skilling, dumbing down, and removing as much access to technology as possible is another part of the process.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 05:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 23, 2015, 06:10:00 amThe Dumpster ! also buying things for $1 local pickup only. My last printer ( which weighed a lot more than I do ) was a bonanza for just $1I do agree with you overall though, and with Terrahertz, about the stupidity of it all. Learn to speak Chinese. Say 'Share Share' (thank you) at the Chinese restaurant next visit and you're on your way.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 07:59:20 pm
content: They are introducing Mandarin as a language at schools here.more things change the more they look the same.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 08:27:24 pm
content: I'm so jealous. They only taught me English (which I failed) and barnyard sounds at school. I wasn't tested on the barnyard animal sounds thankfully, and I've been trying to learn more useful things since.Gotta collect some more upgrades.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 04:11:35 am
content: https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-legislation/In-detail/Indirect-taxes/GST/GST-on-low-value-imported-goods/So this will be coming in soon. I buy a lot of few $$ items from china on ebay. From the sounds of it, ebay will be classified as the supplier and held responsible for passing on the tax?Might have to do one last giant ebay haul over the next month....

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 07:26:21 am
content: Holy shit, they actually did it.Government is the enemy of the people.I can't parse the legalese on the ato page, to figure out how this will affect posted parcels from overseas suppliers like Aliexpress, bookstores, etc, that are not based in Australia and not using Australian purchase channels like ebay.com.au.Or overseas reshippers. Or purchase and importation of second hand equipment, say from US ebay.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 08:35:39 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on May 17, 2018, 07:26:21 amI'm concerned that if customs doesn't see a valid barcode on the package which shows that it has come from a taxable supplier, they'll just confiscate and destroy those parcels.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 08:38:23 am
content: Imagine hundreds of thousands of parcels, each worth only a few dollars, being shovelled into a furnace...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 08:46:29 am
content: Quote from: John B on May 17, 2018, 08:35:39 amIs that in the legislation?

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 09:42:18 am
content: The government tried it on two years ago. Went to Ebay and said that Ebay will have to add GST to every overseas purchase maybe on Ebay By Australian buyers and remit it to the ATO. Ebay said “No”. Government said “you don’t have a choice”. Ebay said “Then from July 1st we will geo-block any buyer in Australia from being able to purchase from overseas sellers, they will only be able to shop within Australia. Let’s see how that works out for you at the next election”. Government drops the whole thing for another year.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 10:23:08 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on May 17, 2018, 07:26:21 amI believe it's going to be an "easy targets" thing, the big targets, like eBay, Aliexpress and Amazon are the primary focus, a lot of small stuff will slip through the net, but by making the marketplace (as before, eBay, Aliexpress and Amazon) responsible for remitting the GST it makes them a single big easy target to collect from, and if that marketplace has ANY presence in your country then it becomes all the easier to enforce I expect, all three of those big targets have physical presences in Australia of some description.Much like when here in NZ we introduced the so called "Netflix Tax" wherein we charged GST on services supplied from overseas, it was never going to "catch them all", just "catch the easy ones".It will be interesting to see what happens on those three marketplaces specifically on the 1st of July or soon thereafter, NZ is closely watching how it plays out for you, because it's been strongly suggested that we will do the same in the next year or so.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 11:13:34 am
content: Our ear-bashing treasurer, Scott "Motormouth" Morrison has created a concoction of confusion for everyone about who is going to collect the GST. eBay is not a tax collection agency. And somehow, I cannot see Hu Flung Dung Enterprises registering with the Australian Tax Office. It is likely, many foreign companies and individuals will simply state, "WILL NOT SHIP TO AUSTRALIA". So if I buy something from China for $1 including free delivery, they are going to have to do all the paperwork to get another 10 cents out of me.This new GST scheme might end up like the CB radio licensing scam of the late 1970's, where the knuckleheads abandoned their licensing tax because the cost of running their bureaucracy exceeded their income.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 11:21:47 am
content: Scott Morrison is also charging GST for software, like a game, downloaded from overseas. Within his short silences for taking a breath, he better think up a way to police it. His tax collection mechanisms will have more holes than Swiss cheese.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 12:00:20 pm
content: Electronic delivery already has GST added at checkout. From graphics to audio and video production software, GST has been added for a while now.So there must be some arrangement that allows these companies to easily work with it.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 12:13:16 pm
content: this whole thing is so stupid and petty, so really it's not surprising to see from our stupid petty government.The funny thing is though, that even with 10% GST on top of overseas prices, Australian big box retailers that offer NO VALUE AT ALL over an overseas web page, like old mate harvey (whose corrupt lobbying is what got us here) is still stupidly overpriced and annoying to buy from compared to the overseas prices, and so even with GST, it's still worth shopping overseas anyway over going to harvey norman to buy something when time permits... so it's actually changed nothing - just slugging people a bit more money and effectively driving the cost of living up a bit more.lately most of my imports are business expenses anyway - so once it kicks in, I assume every invoice for everything I import will be a GST invoice, and so I'll take that part back immediately, out of the GST that I collect.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 10:54:59 am
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on May 17, 2018, 12:13:16 pmI avoid Hardly Normal, but recently purchased a Breville Barista Express coffee machine for my wife. Best price around, thanks to them matching an on-line price. If there is no value-add by the retailer, I just buy from wherever is the cheapest, within reason. By the way, my wife says the machine makes an excellent cup of coffee. I myself does not know what it tastes like, because I have never drank coffee in my entire life - not even a sip in over 50 years. Thanks to the GST that few people are aware of yet, now might be a good move to buy shares in Hardly Normal or JB.hey, if Scott Morrison loses the next election, he could get a job as a butcher shop spruiker, ear bashing passersby at a high speed for hours without taking a breather.

author: jazz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 03:09:27 pm
content: The EU has passed a similar legislation last december, by the way, coming into effect in 2021.So from 2021, there will be no vat exemption for imported goods below 22 Euros any more, and it seems like online platforms that handle the sales will be responsible for collecting vat.Source is here:http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/12/05/vat-on-electronic-commerce-new-rules-adopted/

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 07:49:11 pm
content: Where it really sucks is when the item you had shipped from overseas is secondhand anyway, and has already paid tax in it's home country long ago. eg spare parts, vintage equipment etc.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 08:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: jazz on May 18, 2018, 03:09:27 pmWow, this is a big deal! I'm a micro-manufacturer in the US, but ship a lot of items to the EU. I have just been leaving it to the customer to deal with any taxes, duties, VAT, etc. at their end. Now, I'm going to have to collect taxes in US $ and pay them in Euros? I do notice something about less than $10K Euros, and I definitely an under that limit, so maybe I don't have to deal with this.Now, the US supreme court is working on a decision that could require all internet sellers to collect sales taxes for 12,000 taxing jurisdictions in the US. (Some people say there are 16,000 jurisdictions.) I can't possibly imagine how a one-man business could deal with all that paperwork! I could set up a tax percentage for each of the 50 states, but if it has to be for 12,000 jurisdictions, it is just completely out of control. Even filing sales tax payments to 50 different states would be a HUGE hassle!Jon

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 08:33:32 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 18, 2018, 08:10:50 pmThe same change is happening here in NZ, basically riding on the back of Australia. Govt just scored got another income stream.One option with the paperwork is to outsource it to a company who will take care of all of that on behalf of the seller. The eBay international stuff works that way now with Pitney Bowes. They act as a Customs broker and pre-pay the duty so it sails straight through Customs here.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2018, 11:10:12 pm
content: Here's my take on this 10% gst on goods, what is it.... $20 or more or such like down from $1K.Been mentioned the $1K limit was introduced as inspection collection fee was non viable for goods under.Now this is out the door, called the Harvey Norman (HN) tax. HN is a proprietor of a bricks and mortar stores who built their model on importing low and reselling high! He now sub-lets depts proprietors, like white-goods dept, smalls, TVs...etc in his stores and has trailing commissions and sacks low performing proprietors. This way he maximises his income, at the expense of consumers and proprietors. I know one who was sacked forced out because of their internal constant power struggling. "dog eat dog world". Hes an Australian Bars%$rd. who has the ear of governments.He campaigned government for this and is anti Amazon all because his bricks and mortar system is now failing to keep pace to todays online world.So to actually incept this system would need tens of thousands of postal tax collectors, which aint going to happen. More than our military someone said.So the government wants OS suppliers sellers to collect this and fwd this to the Australian tax office.....yeah right that is going to happen.The Chinese sellers won't give a toss some may see a method of rorting and keeping the collections and OS sellers either won't care nor understand.I heard similar system is in Canada done thru boarder control and this delays goods arriving by ...a a long time.Can Canadians pls correct me on this and or say their experiences!So I expect this to all fail I'll buy from sellers who do not collect this "tax" and I hate HN and our incumbent government while big business is getting away with ...last year alone 500+ billion dollars in off shore tax minimisations. Yet they have done nothing on this and it gets worse each year.Where is the equity.Arrrrrhhhhh! Don't get me wound up on this/rant!

author: jazz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 02:12:04 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 18, 2018, 08:10:50 pmThere seem to be two different changes. One is for European sellers, and the 10K Euro limit seems to be for them.The Other change is for non-European sellers. I'm not a lawyer and definitely not an expert on European law, but the way I understand it, you will still be able to have the customer deal with any taxes/duties etc. if they buy directly from you, with the difference that they now have to pay even if the value is below 22 Euros. But if a customer buys something from overseas through a European platform/marketplace, that platform will have to collect vat from the customer. How exactly that would work I don't know. Also, i could be totally misunderstanding the text and be completely wrong.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 03:39:44 am
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on May 18, 2018, 11:10:12 pmHarvey and Norman were the two guys who started the business. Now it's only Gerry Harvey - but I'll agree on the name.Gerry Harvey made a big noise about how the lack of GST collection made it unfair to retailers who did pay GST. This was such a red herring. When this had first surfaced, I had recently purchased a video adapter for my computer for under $10 delivered - it was $39 from Harvey Norman. I was ready to walk up to him and give him the GST on my purchase and tell him I would still buy the thing overseas since it would still be a quarter of the price. The product I received, btw, was every bit as good as I could ask - solid construction, excellent moulding and flawless operation.Gerry Harvey clearly wanted to put the kibosh on people bypassing his retail and this was the only angle he had to play with on the public scene, so he played it - and played it up. While he might be anxious about his income with the changes in the global marketplace and is trying to hold on to the model developed last century, he really needs to do what every other retailer has had to do ... adapt!As an aside, Harvey Norman also goes by the disingenuous - but widely used - reference of "Hardly Normal". The fun fact about this ... ? Type "Hardley Normal" into your Google search to find out.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 05:33:39 am
content: I import a lot of personal items via a US and EU freight forwarder. It started years ago, when my wife complained about the 300% markup on cosmetics here, and I noticed the routine 100% or more markup on toys like Lego.Before that, since the 1990s, I had been importing test equipment, computer gear, and electronics components for personal use. Why? Because the local prices and service were not just bad, they were in-your-face insulting and predatory.The GST will make some difference at the margins, but customers are still going to vote with their wallets, as they have been doing. The good old days that distributors enjoyed, of bullying Aussie end-users into taking low-end product at high-end prices - those days are over.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:44:28 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on May 28, 2018, 05:33:39 amBeing that retail is the second largest employer sector in Australia I would not be too hard on Australian distributors and shops. If Australians want American prices for goods I don’t blame them but there is a cost - Australians might have to get used to earning American wages and labour conditions too. Just as Aussie consumers understandably say “why should I pay for over-priced goods from Australian businesses when I can buy them directly from low-wage countries like the US?” the flip side is that Australian businesses are starting to say “Why should I pay for this over-priced Australian labour when I can buy my labour at 20th the price from China”.Or. More succinctly, “you can’t buy cheap stuff off the internet when you don’t have a job”.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 11:56:24 am
content: I needed some spare parts from a large test equipment company. America, $7 a piece. Contacted the wa agent and no reply, contacted the SA agent and was told they couldn’t sell to me and I had to go through WA. Replied and said I tried them first but heard nothing. Contacted the company directly and that got forwarded to the WA office (who relied this time)Meanwhile I heard back from the SA distributor and was told $9.90 (US$7 plus import, GST, currency conversion etc... it seems ok to me) plus $15 freight. Quote came back from the wa rep, nearly $15 a piece plus $20 shipping.When I wanted 10 of them it makes a massive difference, so I just went with the SA distributor.Crappy service and a 50% price markup for the same thing don’t give me much confidence in that company.While I prefer to shop local, if it is a huge difference more, then I’ll go online.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 07:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: Synthtech on May 28, 2018, 09:44:28 amI understand how the constant pressure for cheaper products killed American manufacturing. Watched a doco long time ago on American Tv manufacturers being forced by Walmart for cheaper products till the time came they couldn’t make the tube for the prices Walmart wanted! So mfgr’ing went off shore to China...same thing before was Japan and so on.The issue here is the internet revolution has a placed buying power into the consumers hands. Harvey Norman, apart from being an Amoral pig, has not responded to this challenge thus lobbied government for change to favour him.However, let’s take the store Appliances on line. They sell goods in competition with HN, yet have very little store frontage and mainly sell online , probably drop shipper? Their prices are always better than HN by quite a lot and have free delivery, HN usually charges $80-$60 ( if not more fore big items) !Wow you mean I can review & but same items a lot cheaper on line & have free delivery? You bet. This is what will kill HN!I should also mention most times if you purchase before certain times your delivery is the next day! Not even HN can match that.Their failure to change their need for each store to maintain stock instead of drop shipping. Is what’s is killing them.I buy s lot if telescope stuff from OS. There are Australian distributions but their price going is sucking. I but from Optcorp products cheaper than in Australia to the tune of thousands in some cases, yes I pay import GST and it’s still way cheaper.How can a product made in China shipped to USA purchased by someone in Australia, get it shipped to Australia sill be cheaper than local stores than buy and ship direct? We are not talking a few dollars saving here.... hundreds in most cases. Astro equipment is not cheap. Oh I liked one USA product so much I repair them on Australia, Losmandy telescope computers. The Chinese could never make such a successful product!There is only one small phrase that explains this price discrepancy: “price gouging and dealerships! “.... just like world zone marking if DVDs and Netflix Zone differentials. They all gouge for money.Well, the game has changed and for once the consumer holds some power, and for this small time ... “I love it!” Some smart entrepreneurs, are using this new found power to import direct and sell cheaper and still profit!Meanwhile The older stores who’s market models are stuck in the 1950’s are screeching to a fail.We are seeing this in many big chain stores yet others like Aldi are thriving!Food for thought!BrendanSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:03:16 pm
content: I've got an example that has stuck in my mind: Superpro polyurethane bushings for vehicles. They're designed and manufactured in Australia, yet it was cheaper than the auto stores (supercheap auto etc) for me to buy ones that had been exported to the UK, have them reimported and shipped to me back in Australia.I mean, there's the feeling of being taken for a ride, then there's being knocked over, repeatedly kicked in the balls, having your wallet stolen then the thief charging you 10% GST on everything in your wallet.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:27:10 pm
content: Australian reatailers definitely have to change their models to compete, i suspect that the ones that can best do it are the big box moving operations such as the appliance seller that wasyoungonce mentioned in his post. The ones that will suffer are the smaller boutique retailers and mom-and-pop stores, music shops, shoe shops, book stores and so on. I do agree about the telescope parts and with John B about the vehicle bushings, some pricing is just way too out of whack to be fair. And of course as so many small reatilers close due to impossible staff costs, rents and electricity prices more and more products simply aren’t even available for sale here any more.As for the GST grab I doubt that it will benefit many Australian retailers and I suspect that it will turn into a farcical train wreck of backed up parcels, and it will be an epic beurocratic failure.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 12:21:32 am
content: Quote from: John B on May 28, 2018, 09:03:16 pmThis is what I'm talking about.Years ago I asked a local Agilent agent for a quote on some high-end gear. When I compared the price to the US standard reseller price, I calculated it was cheaper for me buy a return air ticket to the US, enjoy a week's holiday, have the equipment shipped to my hotel, and then ship it back to Australia. Allow me to underscore this point: it was cheaper for me to fly to the US and buy it *retail*, *plus* enjoy a week's vacation.The local agent, who wouldn't budge on price, then contacted me asking when he could expect my order ... <epic rant redacted>.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 01:20:18 am
content: Sweden began charging vat and customs for all packages from outside the EU march this year. It really sucks. I don't mind paying vat and customs but the company handling the post (PostNord) are allowed to charge about 10 USD in handling fee. I.e. every package (worth $0-$30) from outside EU now has an additional $10 handling fee added!They even lied and said it would be introduced during summer, when they realised people (naturally) where making extra purchases before summer they suddenly activated the new rules already in march with only a couple of weeks notice. Word is they had to return 400 000 packages and the number of incoming packages dropped with about 90%. It's still complete chaos and people are not getting packages despite paying the fee, etc.Latest news are that a Chinese company (one that only sell crap) has made a deal to charge for vat/customs themselves and therefore PostNord will not charge $10 (but they still might charge $1 per package through the company, no one knows yet).So right now, the hoi polloi are not allowed to buy e.g. a charging cable from aliexpress for $1 but has to either buy (the exact same Chinese cable) in store a locally (sweden first!) for $10 or pay $1 + $10.25 in fees to PostNord.It's feels like a huge scam. Vat for a %2 package is 0.25*2 = $0.5 so the crazy 10$ handling fee is just completely out of proportion and it is not even a tax, it goes straight down PostNords pockets. Someone is laughing all the way to the bank.Sweden has another bizarre law saying we have to pay about USD 10 to a private organisation called Copyswede for every hard drive and thumb drive sold here (and other storage devices). That is supposedly to compensate the music industry for losses because we are allowed to record music from the radio...

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 01:27:03 am
content: Thus the rise of forward shipping companies in Australia like:Shipto; boxusa etcSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 05:00:56 am
content: Quote from: Synthtech on May 28, 2018, 09:27:10 pmI am not so sure.. the smaller shops have the ability to be a lot more flexible than the big retailers.. yes they won't be able to compete on price with importing (especially if they keep using a distributor network that jacks up their buy price to more than overseas retail price!) but they *do* have the ability to provide service.I just bought a tracking generator and a directional coupler for my signal hound spectrum analyser from the Australian distributor. Price was OK (higher than straight from the USA, but not by that much, when you factor in shipping import charges, and all the rest) And I've bought plenty of things from specialist Australian retailers before, after checking overseas alternatives.. Musical instrument shops, especially.When they are providing a service and not costing much extra money, it's fine... It's when they provide no extra value (or are plain harder and more annoying to deal with, like Harvey Norman!) and then expect a much higher price too, that's the kind of Australian retailers that will not survive.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 06:45:20 am
content: Quote from: apis on May 29, 2018, 01:20:18 amI feel the same. The GST isn't a big deal in dollar terms, but the addition of a flat fee on top is one of the things that worries me.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 12:57:25 am
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on May 29, 2018, 05:00:56 amAgreed. When the local price is roughly comparable to overseas retail plus shipping, I buy local, especially if the local supplier is reliable and easy to deal with. Occasionally the local price will be more competitive, especially for PC-related parts, and it's great to see that.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 06:00:27 am
content: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/amazon-to-block-its-us-website-for-aussie-shoppers-over-new-gst-rules-20180531-p4zikr.htmlAmazon will not ship to Australia for Amazon.Com purchases after July 1, you need to buy from Amazon.Com.AueBay will charge GST on all purchases it sounds likeAnybody heard about Ali?

author: jazz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 08:36:24 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on May 31, 2018, 06:00:27 amThey probably realize they will have to do the same thing in Europe in a few years, and see it as a test run before they have to scale it up.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 09:36:33 am
content: Quote from: jazz on May 31, 2018, 08:36:24 amGST is not applicable to the private sale of second-hand goods.Administering this would be messy.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 09:56:20 am
content: Quote from: DrGeoff on May 31, 2018, 09:36:33 amThis whole thing is going to be such a mess. In Australia if a second hand dealer sells something on consignment for example they have to charge GST on the portion of the sale that is their profit margin.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 10:43:08 am
content: Because of Scott MotormouthMorrison's GST, Amazon has spat the dummy. I don't care much about Amazon, but I am more worried if respected vendors like BHvideo and Digikey state: WILL NOT SHIP TO AUSTRALIA. I can tell you now, companies in Red China won't be registering for the GST and paying tax to the Australian government.If we get too many WILL NOT SHIP TO AUSTRALIA notifications, the Liberals will lose the next election. But I don't think this GST will stop Google, Microsoft and Apple continuing their mission to avoid paying their taxes in Australia. These dodgy American companies will always outsmart the simpleton politicians in the Australian government by exploiting every loophole.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 01:58:43 pm
content: google already charge GST in Australia (with GST it's not THEM paying tax, but us.. they just collect it) came in around a year and a bit ago if my memory from going through my tax receipts recently was right?

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2018, 02:09:19 pm
content: If digi & mouser stop selling to Austraia over this, I'll have to move countries to be able to do my job...This whole thing is just SO idiotic.they are shifting the onus onto the overseas sellers to collect australian taxes... which in one way is a good approach if you were going to do such a stupid petty thing as collect GST on imports under $1000, because otherwise every little $1 thing you import with free shipping from alibaba will collect a $50 processing fee to go with the 10c GST charge, and take a month to clear the department of ugly posturing cruelty.but to do it that way, they are imposing extra costs and system complexities on other companies in other countries, so you can see how that's just not going to work for almost everyone.. small retailers will just ignore it, and as one of millions still posting stuff in, how will they be stopped? you can see why amazon won't wear it.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 12:20:04 am
content: New Zealand has their GST limit at $400 or $450. I’ve given up sending things express post over to customers there because any speed increase from express is voided by their customs process. It’s not much of a cost difference between standard and express. I had something sent to Angola and it took 4 days to be delivered. Something I sent to NZ in the same post dropoff took 2 days to get to NZ and then another 2 weeks to get through customs. They had to invoice my customer, then wait for payment of the gst before releasing the order.If australia customs were handling it, it would be a major shit show

author: xaxaxa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 03:23:54 am
content: Quote from: PTR_1275 on June 01, 2018, 12:20:04 amjust under-declare your shipments like everybody else doesespecially with such a high gst limit

author: knapik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 03:50:22 am
content: So it looks like they were actually serious about postponing it to 2018? Its just a stupid idea, do they even ask the public, those that vote in members of parliament for their opinion before bringing in ridiculous laws? I don't know why anyone would be pleased about this.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 04:18:14 am
content: Gerry Harvey didn't get where he is by being dumb - and I believe I have underestimated him on this subject.It now seems rather obvious he wasn't chasing the 10% GST, but rather the collection mechanism - and by the Australian Government trying to push this out to the platforms (I wonder whose idea that was?), Gerry was hoping for the "get stuffed" response from them.The result is: Gerry Harvey now sees his competition diminishing.It was never about the GST.

author: knapik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 04:29:49 am
content: Makes sense to me. That's a good way of forcing people to buy from you at your rip off prices.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 04:31:41 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on June 01, 2018, 04:18:14 amI agree with all of this. I seriously underestimated the enemy.Note that Amazon can now charge higher prices to Australians than for the rest of the world, since Australians will be blocked from Amazon US, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, etc.Since it will get harder for us to arbitrage higher local prices, I expect Amazon AU and others to take advantage of this.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 04:35:49 am
content: Amazon AU is already screwed with the lack of product and the excesses in pricing. The only way that Australian sellers could take advantage is to cross their fingers and hope to get more sales. Increasing prices is just foolhardy.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 09:00:30 am
content: I think that people think that Gerry Harvey has a lot more influence than he actually does.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 01:09:01 pm
content: He's only got to give a politician a reason to think something is a good idea. The rest will flow naturally.Besides ... he's had his face in the news - and that is always an attention-getter for politicians.

author: niladherbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 01:48:18 pm
content: As a nation, how much better or worse off would Australia be if they had full free trade?

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 06:58:58 am
content: Quote from: niladherbert on June 02, 2018, 01:48:18 pmWe would have to compete on a more level playing field. Meaning the standard of living will drop for most Australians, except politicians.