How to test an IR2104/2111? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 05:57:41 pm
content: Hi all,I want to test the IR2104 MOSFET driver but without the mosfets. I built the circuit attached bellow.The simulation in PROTEUS works great but the real circuit niet!!!The frequency is about 31KHz.I tried loading the HO and LO with 10k resistors with no success.I've also tried with an IR2111 (which has a bit different pinout).Please, what I'm missing?Thanks

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 06:06:35 pm
content: What I've done I simply connected VB to Vcc and VS to COM (GND).The ATtiny85 code for 31KHz PWM @ 8MHz CPU clock:Code://ATtiny85 PWM in CTC Modeint main(){DDRB =1<<PB0;// set PB0 as output to enable PWM generationTCCR0A = 1 << COM0A1 | 1 << WGM01 | 1 << WGM00;TCCR0B = 1 << CS00;//prescaler = 1TCNT0=0;OCR0A=150; //Generating PWM of 58.9% duty cycle from OC0Awhile(1);}Dont forget to program the LOW fuse to 0xE2 (disable the divide by eight).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 06:13:19 pm
content: What made you think you can connect VB to VCC?

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 06:18:23 pm
content: From the internal circuit I think we can do that, no?Is there any other simple way to do the test?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 06:19:33 pm
content: It should work I guess but it's completely not clear what is what and at what voltage levels on scope picture.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 06:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 17, 2024, 06:13:19 pmwhy not? the drive for HO is the voltage between VB and VS

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2024, 06:32:13 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 17, 2024, 06:19:33 pmThe scope pic is from SIMULATION.HO is the Yellow traceLO the Blue oneboth at 5V/div (Vcc is 11V).HO is in phase with the In(put) signal as expected.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 04:37:19 am
content: Connecting the chip like that is ok if you just want to see both gate drivers operating as low-side drivers. But that won't be capable of driving an actual half bridge, which I'm assuming is what you aim to do (otherwise there's be no point in selecting a part like this).To properly test the high side driver, you need to connect actual transistors. To start, you should power the half bridge from a power supply with a low current limit (maybe 100mA), and no other circuits loading the bridge output, such that if you make a mistake you're much less likely to damage you components due to cross conduction.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 04:44:41 am
content: If you want to test the high side driver in its floating supply configuration, you will need either differential oscilloscope probes, or use the math function on the scope.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 09:43:16 am
content: I just want to test the chip is Ok or not, of course it's not the correct config to drive a high side MOSFET.My problem it's not working where theoriticaly it does!!!The circuit is mounted on a breadboard but I think it's not an issue because the working frequency is relatively low (31KHz).Vcc is 11V but the IC works from 10V to 20V.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 09:49:12 am
content: Quote from: DELTA67 on April 17, 2024, 06:32:13 pmSo you did not say at all how exactly is does not operate. Also on schematic it's not clear to what SD pin is connected.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 11:20:41 am
content: Quote from: DELTA67 on April 18, 2024, 09:43:16 amI had assumed you were unsuccessful in testing the full half bridge circuit, but you never clarified that this test setup also isn't working. What are you observing on the HO and LO pins?Quote11V should be enough to exceed the chip's UVLO threshold.What logic levels are you applying to the IN and SD pins? Note these often don't have TTL compatible inputs, best to drive them with 5V logic. If you don't want to use the SD pin, tie it to VCC.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2024, 08:08:44 pm
content: I've never said that I want to test a half bridge! I want to test the chip it self only.as shown in the circuit joint in the 1st post, SD is tied to 5V and the INput is from an ATtiny85 uC.Quote from: mtwieg on April 18, 2024, 11:20:41 amNo signal, just DC.For IR2111 I've got:LO 11V.HO 2V

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 06:35:52 am
content: Quote from: DELTA67 on April 18, 2024, 08:08:44 pmI'm still confused. Your first post you attached a scope photo. I thought that photo was from your real scope? If so, your chip appears to be working perfectly.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 10:15:25 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on April 19, 2024, 06:35:52 amSorry if I've not been clear on that point.The scope picture is from the simulation on PROTEUS.If it was from the real device then there's no need to open this thread!!!Now I've changed the power Vcc to 14V, the chip get's very hot.Can the uC drive directly the chip or I must use a buffer?are these chips(IR2104/2111) cloned?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 12:09:11 pm
content: Quote from: DELTA67 on April 19, 2024, 10:15:25 amIf it's from China, there is a high chance it's fake and even could be relabeled different unrelated IC.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2024, 03:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 19, 2024, 12:09:11 pmYes, I think so!Forget it, I'll skip this project for the moment until finding a genuine chips.Thanks for all.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 03:57:50 am
content: Quote from: DELTA67 on April 19, 2024, 10:15:25 amActually now that I think about it, this could be your problem.I'm pretty sure the input PWM must swing from 0V to 11V or whatever your IR2111 is connected to.I assume your ATtiny is only connected to 3.3V? No wonder the IR2111 output wasn't switching!In other words, you'll need to voltage translate the ATtiny to whatever the IR2111 is using. ATtiny driving an open collector with pull-up, should do the trick.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 09:50:56 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on April 20, 2024, 03:57:50 amIt basically needs to be Vcc voltage for IR2111 but IR2104 is completely fine with 3.3V or 5V logic out. Actually there is no MCU or other circuit creating switching signal required at all, as bootstrap circuit is unused you can just apply low/high level DC to its input and see if output changes.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 08:09:08 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on April 20, 2024, 03:57:50 amThanks for this detail !!Yes, in fact the uC is 5V powered so it's output swings from 0V to 5V.But the IR2104 is 3.3V compatible, I don't know why it's not working.

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 08:48:21 am
content: Is there a Vcc bypass capacitor near the IC? Some driver ICs can self-oscillate and damage themselves.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 09:02:48 am
content: Quote from: xavier60 on April 21, 2024, 08:48:21 amYes

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 02:07:52 pm
content: Quote from: DELTA67 on April 19, 2024, 10:15:25 amIf a chip like this is noticeably warm in a test like this then it's been damaged, replace it and try again.QuoteThe datasheet says it's 3.3V compatible, but also gives a max VIH of 3V. IMO that makes 3.3V too marginal, 5V should be plenty though. The drive current strength of ordinary MCUs should be plenty though.QuoteIt's possible, but I doubt that alone explains what you're seeing. Most cloned/counterfeit chips actually do function similarly to the genuine article. At the very least they should not exhibit clear signs of damage (like self-heating in your case).

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 04:17:20 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on April 20, 2024, 03:57:50 amYES, it works with the IR2111 @ 11V and no warming, Thanks!I've read the datasheet many times but I've never paid attention to the IN(put) level details. I thougt it's 3.3V compatible like the IR2104.For the IR2104 I get only the LO output working with or without the level shifter.No signal on the HO output.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 05:00:31 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 20, 2024, 09:50:56 amA very good idea!Here's the results @ 11V:1- For the IR2111:IN = H (11V) ===> HO = 11V, LO = 0VIN = L ===> HO = 0V, LO = 11V2- For the IR2104 (SD=5V):IN = H (5V) ===> HO = 11V, LO = 0VIN = L ===> HO = 2.9V, LO = 11V

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 05:22:05 pm
content: Looks working fine.

author: DELTA67
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2024, 06:55:02 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 21, 2024, 05:22:05 pmYes, the only downside in the DC test is that the HO output of the IR2104 don't goes low down to 0V. the low level of this output is about 3V.in the AC test there's no signal at this output as I said before (it stays high or low, I don't remember the measurement I've done) .

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2024, 12:26:05 pm
content: Something is still wrong with the IR2104 then. Its outputs should pull strongly all the way down to ~0V.If you tie SD to GND, does that cause both outputs to pull low?

author: picses_74
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 11:51:31 pm
content: Hello , I would like to thank you all for the info I found here , ( IR2111 ) Vin should be more the 5V , I ve been trying for 3 hours to get it to work with arduino and I got no output . I thn tested with function generator with 12v and i worked . Many many thanks for you allAmr