Apple investigates electrocution by iPhone report - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2013, 08:14:02 pm
content: i wonder what the problem could be inferior style electronics + china =after watching daves and mikes tear down dubious adapters i am not in slightest surprisedhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23317338

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2013, 08:58:27 pm
content: If true, I'm leaning towards Won Hung Lo brand iPhone charger.Regardless it makes Apple look bad. I'm sure they're going to incorporate some kind of overload protection in their next model phone just to be sure. Or put in some logging utility in the phone that remembers if the phone was charged with a Apple brand charger or not for future forensic usage and lawsuit protection.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2013, 09:04:27 pm
content: Overload protection won't help if the problem is that the charger's isolation broke down. The phone would have to incorporate an isolation barrier between the circuit board and the case, and there's no reason to do that at all IMHO. The problem here is almost certainly the charger, and absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the phone itself.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2013, 10:07:34 pm
content: make chargers with a crypto chip in em. if not genuine : reject.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2013, 10:32:00 pm
content: The only way I can see that working is if the chip contains a signature matching the device's serial number. Otherwise the chip can just be directly cloned. And if I have to get a charger specially made to match my own device ID when the charger finally shits itself, I'm just not going to buy their products.Granted, everyone else will continue to buy them, so they'd only lose one purchase, but still...Ford cars don't have to be filled using Ford gas pumps just because somebody could sell bad gas.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 02:58:37 am
content: So Fortune and WSJ are spreading the rumour that a Chinese woman (a flight attendant but what that has to do with anything I don't know) was electrocuted while answering her charging iPhone while in the bath tub.http://9to5mac.com/2013/07/15/apple-investigating-electrocution-death-of-chinese-flight-attendant-while-charging-iphoneSeriously, WTF?

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 05:40:32 am
content: So what your saying is that the phone had live mains voltage on it and, when she picked it up to answer it, she got fried?How is the phone not toast? How does it get zapped with 230V mains and then receive a call? Why do they say she is a flight attendant? Does it matter? Does it make the story more believable? How is Forbes so sure it's a genuine Apple adapter given that they aren't even sure which model phone it is?Smells like total BS to me. Total urban legend nonsense.The very idea Apple is in the story = Forbes/WSJ link bait.Sounds a lot like the names of the Asiana airlines pilots:Sum ting WongWe Tu LoHo Lee FukDing Bang Ow

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 05:43:43 am
content: Quote from: cthree on July 16, 2013, 05:40:32 amThe entire power supply, which was supposed to be isolated, ended up connected to the mains. It was common-mode....I'm just a bit skeptical that an electric shock off your phone would kill you. When you touch mains, you don't sit there getting a nice electric massage, you jump like hell and throw the phone across the room...

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 05:53:19 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 16, 2013, 05:43:43 amReally cause the article says: "But it said they had not verified if a mobile phone was the cause."The entire power supply of what? The phone? I'm pretty sure that if I cut the usb connector off my iPhone cable and stuck the stripped wires in an electrical outlet with the phone attached it would be surely fucked. I wouldn't be receiving any calls on it that's for sure.The whole story is dodgy. None of it makes any sense.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 05:55:18 am
content: Yes, the PSU of the phone. If you stuck those stripped wiresboth in the same side of the outlet, no, it won't be fucked, but you will if you touch it.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 06:19:57 am
content: If they had a pacemaker could the shock fry it? It is surrounded in a metal can...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 06:22:52 am
content: Yes, people with pacemakers are about the only people whodon'tjust throw the phone across the room and scream obscenities if it shocks them. But wouldn't that be something that would be known and probably reported?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 06:31:37 am
content: Perhaps, but a pacemaker would be relevant.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 06:38:37 am
content: True. But anyway, I smell bullshit.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 06:40:37 am
content: Yes, this reeks of either bullshit or very poor reporting.

author: samgab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 06:51:58 am
content: I call shenanigans.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 08:25:35 am
content: If you have a pacemaker you are not a flight attendant or any other crew member. If the chargers screen wire became live you could get an electric shock possibly large enough to kill without the phone being fried as the current would only flow through the case and not through the circuit board, that is assuming that the phone had a metal case, I have no idea if an iphone has a metal case, I would have thought that unlikely as then there would be signal problems unless the whole case could be a antenna.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 09:08:31 am
content: Were you shocked by dc or ac? Dc causes your muscles to contract in one direction. That usually causes you to be stuck to the terminals. This is how a lot of laborers in old factories died. With ac, it gives you the jitters that would give you a chance to let go. I too am speaking from experience

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 09:10:35 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 16, 2013, 05:55:18 amAlso don't forget the fundamental fact thatcurrenthas to flow - you need to be grounded too. If you're not grounded and come in contact with 230V, you will be at 230V, which is a dangerous situation, but nothing will happen until you actually complete the circuit by touching something grounded.@G7PSK: yes it has a metal case and they did have reception issues.Remember the drama a while back?

author: Chalky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 09:47:20 am
content: If I hold my iPhone while it's (mains) charging, I can feel that old AC tingle when I also touch anything grounded.I can measure about 77 VAC from iPhone body to ground. That's on an Apple original charger, using a 2-pin (no earth) NZ/Aus plug. If I use a kamakuza charger, I get 100 VAC from iPhone body to ground. Obviously it's not the iPhone, it's the chargers, as can get same measurements off just outer of the USB connector. Edit: forgot to mention, no current at all, that I could measure, but I can certainly feel the buzz! Happens with various chargers, in various outlets, in various suburbs. I notice the large protruding centre pin on some of the chargers is metal, not plastic, and I THINK maybe the iPads came with a long mains lead (rather than just the wee travel plug) - from memory no AC off that one, but I'd need to check again to be certain.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 09:56:38 am
content: Oh yes, and please remember:it's not the voltage that kills you, it's the current!(sorry, but someone had to write that, at least once!)My god, how much junk is being thrown over this *fake* news all around the whole internet...Latest update: I found a news where they say that the lady was in the bathtub while answering the phone.Tomorrow we'll discover that she was not a lady, but a horse, and the bathtub was in fact a church, and the horse is not dead, it was a rhino indeed, and so on.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 10:37:32 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 15, 2013, 10:07:34 pmIt won't take long and we'll pay 50 bucks for the phone and 250 for the charger :-) This reminds me of ink jet printers :-(

author: jebcom
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 11:39:34 am
content: I just talked to my wife, who is in China now. This story is also widely reported on Chinese news. The latest reports are claiming that it was an off-brand charger.It seems quite plausible to me. All of these chargers are 2-terminal AC supply. If you really want to cheapen the price, eliminate the isolation. One conductor going to the phone is AC neutral. The other is 5V above neutral. But if the user plugs it in backward (very easy to do in China) you have 220VAC hot going down the ground conductor to the phone.Some Chinese businesses are often scheming to boost their profits. 5 years ago they had a milk scandal in which they added melamine powder to diluted milk to make it indicate higher protein in testing. That resulted in several deaths, and some of the accused received death penalty and life imprisonment. It will be interesting to see if that happens in this case.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 07:12:02 pm
content: Quote from: Chalky on July 16, 2013, 09:47:20 amLeakage current measurements here:http://www.aplomb.nl/SMPS_leakage/Doc_ie.htmlAccording to IEC60950 250uA is the limit for class II (double-insulated, no earth):http://www.i-spec.com/IEC_60950/touch_current.htmlBecause people vary, I don't doubt that some people may be able to sense below that despite the "average" limit of perception being ~1mA.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 07:20:52 pm
content: Quote from: Pippy on July 16, 2013, 08:48:04 amI suppose it depends on how you make contact. I've been shocked numerous times and haven't once found myself gripping onto the item harder, I always fling it away. The muscles in my hand most likely do contract, but any gripping force from my hand is greatly overwhelmed by the force from the muscles contracting in my arm and throwing it.If you have your hand around wires, then you'll probably grip onto them because they can't be thrown, but that somewhat heavy iPhone is going to get a shitload of momentum from your arm snapping back and will slip right out of your grip as soon as your arm comes to a stop.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2013, 09:16:26 pm
content: ken's done a pretty good teasrdown of real iphone adaptorshttp://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2013, 12:09:57 pm
content: Here's a bunch more:http://lygte-info.dk/info/usbPowerSupplyTest%20UK.htmlWith a few exceptions the cheap ones actually do rather well, and only 2 failed the 2.5kV hi-pot test. Surprising how two with exactly the same price can vary so much in safety.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2013, 01:16:04 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 16, 2013, 05:43:43 amDuring which time it's enough to kill you. Most people, no, but eventually someone is going to have the right conditions with a weak ticker or whatever, and that's all she wrote.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2013, 01:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on July 17, 2013, 01:28:19 pmNo, not possible. There is no HV generation, let alone HV generation with enough current capability.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 06:52:18 pm
content: Well it's confirmed. it was a one-hung-lo ...where do i claim my 5$ ?http://www.apple.com.cn/power-adapters/http://gizmodo.com/apple-tells-you-how-to-stop-getting-electrocuted-by-fau-910168984

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 07:10:08 pm
content: The way to resolve this would be to require certification so the $5 chargers will end up costing $10. I'm pretty sure you can make a safe, reliable charger for $10 because I can buy a Stontronics brand 5V, 2A for around £6 from Rapid Electronics. Granted, it's not in such a nice form factor, but it works and it's good for the price.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 07:30:10 pm
content: @tom66 : after reading your idea somewhere in china someone is now pondering getting a printing press just in case certificates become mandatory and make a quick buck printing them way ahead of all the other certificate printers ...the only solution is to make these chargers have a special , hard to copy , encrypted, chip in them that tells the phone it can charge. If it needs to be the phone calls apple (through wifi or cell or sms) to verify against a master database of all charger ever built. no match is no charge so it is useless.the problem does not stem from the charger itself , it is a problem of the form factor. Apple are geniuses in coming up with form factors that are extremely small. that charger is so small that it is bloody hard to make the guts of it be safe.the copiers don't have the technology to build the boards with that kind of parts, or want to use cheaper parts to make the pricepoint lower and still make a buck. the concession is safety...in a sense apple is to blame for the unsafe copies simply because they made theirs so small.if i look at the charger for older phones, they are invariably larger bricks. haven't had too many problems with clones of those (in terms of killing people).Then again , it is also the fault of the cloners from making unsafe products.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 07:45:03 pm
content: The chip will be copied. Dell had the same issue with their laptop chargers, they had a Dallas One-Wire chip in the charger which included a serial number -- without the serial number the laptop would run from the charger but wouldn't charge the battery. The cloners pretty quickly figured out how to copy the signature off, so that didn't work.Ultimately, the way to solve this is three fold:- Educate the public about safety of chargers and why to avoid un-marked products (OK wouldn't work for for outright fakes but then at least they'd be breaking the law even more);- Eliminate unsafe products by requiring recertification in the country of sale. And -regular- checks -- random sample every few months for example. It's NOT enough to simply pass on the documents from China. For example this product on sale on eBay UK, by a UK supplierhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-12V-5A-60W-AC-DC-Power-Supply-Adapter-Charger-for-PC-LCD-monitor-TV-/290768767897?pt=UK_Computing_LaptopAccessories_PowerSupplies&hash=item43b32b4b99has faked CE rating. I know this because I took one apart and it did not have any line filtering components aside from some ceramic caps acting as Y-caps (uh, yeah) and the fuse was completely inadequate. At least the transformer was decently sized and isolation was acceptable, so the charger will only kick back RFI and set fire to your house rather than electrocuting you. They've been selling them for several years now using those fake documents so how are they getting away with it? No one checks these companies, so they have no reason to test their products and buy quality products;- Recalls, if necessary, can't be a stupid little notice on the distributors website or on EU safety website, they need to be proactive and for example email customers who purchased them online and post notices outside any shops they sold them in.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 08:04:08 pm
content: The real problem isthis. Dumbasses who can afford an iPhone but then think a charger should cost $2. You're not going to be able to do anything about this until people with no electronics knowledge stop trying to decide what electronic devices should cost.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 08:29:34 pm
content: Well, it shouldn't cost Apple anything to produce an "ugly" $5 charger; with all their might, I'm sure they could do it (and break even on each sold)... but it would go against their whole "pretty is superior" ethos.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 08:33:14 pm
content: 1. Properly designed mains SMPS plugs that are stable, reliable and safe are not cheap. Could they perhaps do it cheaper if they sacrifice appearance? Yes, but not by much.2. It's agoddamn charger! It's not an expendable item! Who gives a fart if it's $5, $10 or $20, if you're not a wasteful klutz who breaks and/or trashes these monthly, you'll buy these less frequently than the phones they charge! If you can afford an iPhone, you can afford its charger.I have literally never bought a cell phone charger. I just use the ones that come with them. I've got a sizable collection from previous phones, all in perfect working condition. How the hell do you even break one?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 08:43:53 pm
content: iSupply estimates (usually with good accuracy) the "box contents" of the iPhone 5 product costs $7.http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone5-Carries-$199-BOM-Virtual-Teardown-Reveals.aspxPresuming that most of that is the ultracompact charger (that's including manual, packaging, cables, etc.) is it really a stretch to think you couldn't hit a $5 price point.As for disposable, some people are not careful and forget their charger by leaving it at home, in the hotel, on the plane, or at a friend's house. So it's nice to have a second charger.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 08:49:21 pm
content: Quote from: cthree on July 16, 2013, 05:40:32 amThe news organizations think you will be more interested in the news if you are picturing a disrobed, wet flight attendant.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 08:49:52 pm
content: If it has a BOM cost of $7 then $20 is perfectly reasonable when sold as a standalone. If they get the BOM cost down to $5 I'd expect to buy it for $15-$18.I'm so sorry for the people who are not careful. Have they ever tried - hmm.... - being more careful? I mean, sure, maybe once or twice over the life of the phone you might expect to lose it, but that's $40. $40 over thelife of the phone. What do you pay monthly for service? Just cough up the cash and be more careful next time. And if you're losing it more than that, you're a complete dunderhead.We're talking iPhones here, not food and drink. Luxury items. Expect to pay money. How can you pay as much as it costs to own an iPhone (sure, they're often subsidized by the service plan, but the plan itself is not cheap) and then be stingy with a $20 charger?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 09:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on July 25, 2013, 08:33:14 pmespecially since every phone comes with a charger ...

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 09:46:21 pm
content: I think there is an even easier solution - capitalism.Require every manufacturer to have liability insurance. They can even require a chain-of-documentation in the same way they do with VAT.As a manufacturer, I have liability insurance, so if I sell it on eBay, ebay says "sure thing, we just need a copy of your cert" to be a vendor on eBay. Wherever the business-to-consumer transaction takes place, require proof of liability insurance.And the insurance companies - being capitalists - will want to mitigate their risk, so they will have the incentive to ensure their insured are complying with UL/CE/whatever. Then when a wun-hung-lo charger pops someones ticker, the manufacturer gets sued for a bazillion dollars. Problem solved.Requiring Chinese companies to have liability insurance to export or sell in foreign markets would go a long way to solving a LOT of the problems (tainted dog food, tainted sheetrock panels, tainted toys, etc).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 10:19:02 pm
content: You'd need to be careful of individual sellers. Would you require -every- seller to purchase liability insurance? And what about the sellers shipping a hundred chargers a day -- one case a month may bump their insurance prices sky high but even £3000 a month adds just £1 to a cheap charger.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 10:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 25, 2013, 10:19:02 pmNope, just manufacturers. The seller is exempt so long as they have on file the certificate of who they got it from (and if that person was a wholesaler, they get it from the person they got it from, and if that person was an importer, they get the cert from the person they got it from, and if that person was an exporter in China, they get it from the person they got it from). And so on down the chain. Everyone needs to have liability insurance, but you don't need it for products you have a copy of the cert on file. This would discourage sellers from selling black/gray market items with no insurance (because they would need to either get a cert themselves or go without which would be very risky and easily found out).Maybe even require an insurance company and policy number on receipts and packing slips.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2013, 10:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 25, 2013, 09:46:21 pmIn Germany we got something similar. The manufacturer or importer is liable for damages caused by a badly designed/built product. But that doesn't prevent bad stuff getting sold because not all products could be checked and some importers are greedy and don't care.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 06:11:31 am
content: Quote from: madires on July 25, 2013, 10:27:32 pmIn Australia it is on the importer to ensure it meets local safety requirements, which is why if you buy it from a bricks and mortar shop you are sure of some legal protection as the chain will be obvious for any liability. Problem is "clever consumers" buy on ebay direct from china (also its very hard to tell where something is shipping from on ebay now) and they become the importer without realising their responsibilities.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 11:36:02 am
content: IMHO I think this whole case has been blown out of proportion by media. Although I don't know the exact number of people killed or injured by "unsafe" chargers so far, it's likely to be very low --- there are probably tens of millions if not more of them in use at any instant, and if they were causing death or injury even a little bit more, we'd hear about it a lot more.To put things into perspective, around 100 people die in the USevery dayfrom car crashes. Some choose to ride motorcycles, which are even more dangerous. It's almost amusing when I hear "I threw out the generic charger I was using and I'm driving to the Apple store to buy a genuine one." You're more likely to get killed going there...There is no absolute safety, and it costs money, so how much are you willing to pay? Of course Apple will spin the story to their benefit because they sell their chargers at enormous profits. Yes, it would be nice if the counterfeits were safer, but to me the current situation doesn't seem to warrant as much attention as it's getting, to say nothing of demanding even more legislation.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 12:12:22 pm
content: Absolutely. The legislative protection already exists, at least here in the UK - the entity which places a product on the EU market is responsible for ensuring that it conforms to all relevant European directives, that it bears a CE mark to indicate compliance, and that sufficient documentary proof of compliance exists in the event that a product is called into question.In other words, it's already illegal to sell an unsafe charger - and as you say, what's truly remarkable is just how infrequently even the worst chargers out there actually do result in someone being hurt.

author: ResR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2013, 07:06:08 pm
content: One silly question, can't the iPod be charged with little bit bigger and better quality generic USB charger or it just has to be that little white cube with extremely tiny unreliable electronics? (I never managed to actually burn out any Nokia chargers with normal use, ever. Even the Sony Ericsson charger has survived the 6 month warranty time and it still works after 1 year 8 months of use dispite the weird HF transformer sizzling it makes)I know that USB port has generally voltage of 5V DC, so it should be in theory possible to charge an iPod in any USB charger, right?The EU legislative story is true, I have even seen a site where unsafe products sold in EU were blacklisted and/or forbidden to sell with reasons for the action, but I can't remember what name, it also shows that some unsafe products still can slip through EU borders occasionally, no matter how tight the control is, there is always a small error in the system. There is no electronic product without CE approval sold in Estonia though. Even extension cords has regulations enforced and bad apples filtered out in time.

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2013, 08:44:32 am
content: they make so much god damn money they should just sell their good chargers at subsidized prices so the Chinese cannot beat them.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2013, 11:57:50 am
content: Quote from: ResR on July 26, 2013, 07:06:08 pmNot all of them...http://blog.curioussystem.com/2010/08/the-dirty-truth-about-usb-device-charging/http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1476QuoteQuoteSo maybe they're not really as unsafe as they're said to be, and it's only the truly "lucky" ones who get bitten... the victim this time was said to have just come out of the bath, wet and likely nicely grounded.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2013, 01:24:56 pm
content: What about require all new USB chargers to have a ground pin?

author: WBB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2013, 02:22:46 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 28, 2013, 01:24:56 pmWhat about not fiddling with devices that are plugged into the mains while in the tub? Too much to ask?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2013, 04:35:32 pm
content: It shouldn't matter. All USB chargers ARE required to be safe, to be marked as safe, and for documentary evidence to be available to prove that they're safe - here in Europe, at least.If they're not, then someone somewhere is breaking the law, or is extraordinarily unlucky, or is extraordinarily stupid.None of these cases are addressed by changing the law.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2013, 05:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on July 26, 2013, 12:12:22 pmThere was a post just a page ago or so in this thread of an eBay seller who has posted CE certs but is selling chargers that can't be CE compliant.It becomes like the illegal immigrant employment issue in the USA... where the person responsible for doing the checking has a vested interest in "not checking too thoroughly", if you know what I mean. They just need plausible deniability - to be able to say "as far as we knew, it was CE certified - we even requested copies of the certs!". But it only affects sellers who are on the up-and-up and honest. The dishonest ones won't care and will just continue to sell junk.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2013, 07:12:05 pm
content: Here's the site mentioned few posts back with list of products banned in EU:http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/alerts/main/index.cfm?event=main.listNotifications&CFID=1529690&CFTOKEN=32149446&jsessionid=089cf67680a9aa0e22f644765e3e781b7d4b. There are reports for every week and a search function. Keyword seems to be RAPEX.From time to time I read the reports. It's interesting that it's usually same type of products that are getting withdrawn from the market. Dangerous light chains, swimming suits, children toys with small parts, vehicles... One thing I did notice is that various kinds of cheap power supplies aren't as common as I'd expect.Also from time to time, even big names and products from usually face countries (USA, Japan, Germany) find themselves on the list.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 12:49:48 pm
content: Hi group,One of Apple's responses to this is to offer to sell you an original charger for $10.00 for each Apple device that you have.http://www.apple.com/support/usbadapter-takeback/Jay_Diddy_B

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 01:10:26 pm
content: Sounds like a fair response to me. Apple is obviously not responsible for unsafe third-party power supplies, but they offer to exchange it for a genuine one for a reasonable price.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 08:07:23 pm
content: Quote from: alm on August 06, 2013, 01:10:26 pmIt's unusually kind of them to offer a trade-in discount... but it somewhat reminds me of Microsoft's anti-piracy strategy.And even at $10 they're probably still making a big profit on them.