second hand MacBook - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 11:24:47 am
content: Well I saw an ad for an Apple MacBook 13.3" Unibody A1342 2.4GHz Core2Duo 4GB 250GB UK Keyboard Mac OSX 10.10 YosemiteIt is going for £300. At first I thought this is a nice machine and for general use its good. Then I thought it would be nice if I could run some windows apps. Then I started thinking that isnt a lot of laptop to run Windows apps on. If I wanted to run mac software then I think it is pretty quick but for not much more money I could get a nice windows laptop.What do people think. Anyone run windows on such a laptop or know of a nice, slim windows laptop for similar money?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 11:44:24 am
content: Rather overpriced for those specifications.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 11:46:15 am
content: yeah, its gotta a nice screen but it really is a bit over priced.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 12:44:15 pm
content: Yup, sounds a bit overpriced even by Aus standards (& I would've thought UK 2nd-hand prices should be less stupid than here).But to answer your other question: natively/using Bootcamp it'll run Win7/10 just as well as a similar-spec 'Windows' machine, and under Parallels/VirtualBox/etc it'll run Win7 almost adequately. I did both on a couple of earlier Macbooks (white 1.83GHz w/ 3gig RAM, and a I think a 2.0GHz w/ 4gig), but virtualised Windows was definitely something you only did for simple software or quick one-off things.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 04:57:37 pm
content: You could also do things the other way around. Very tidy s/h HP Elitebooks with i5 CPUs can be had quite inexpensively and OSX runs on them very nicely with a few tweaks...

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 01:09:20 am
content: Elitebook sounds interesting, thanks.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 01:44:15 am
content: £350 (I admit internationally) recently bought me a Latitude E6530 with a quad-core i7.Shop a little smarter, Apple is not where the deals are.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 02:26:29 am
content: I do actually want something that is very portable. Kind of.computer I can take anywhere without having to lug a big bag around.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 07:19:20 am
content: Quote from: trevwhite on December 17, 2015, 01:09:20 amAll you needis here.Presumably you are in the UK? I bought a spotless 2560P with 12.5" screen, i5/4GB/250GB and came with a good extended capacity battery for £140. It runs OSX very nicely, and they are beautifully made laptops, really solid.The only snag I had was the standard WiFi adapter which is not supported by OSX. Due to the HP whitelist silliness (the BIOS will only enable a small list of specific HP wifi cards) I ended up buying an HP branded BCM943224HMS wifi adapter from the USA since I couldn't find a single one in the UK, though it was pretty cheap still (~£16 with shipping). Other HP models support more easily available devices.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 12:02:28 pm
content: You can mod the BIOS to bypass the whitelisting; here it is done for HP models:http://donovan6000.blogspot.com/2013/06/insyde-bios-modding-wifi-and-wwan-whitelists.htmlbut I first read about this for IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads, which do a similar thing.http://www.paul.sladen.org/thinkpad-r31/wifi-card-pci-ids.html

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2015, 02:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: trevwhite on December 16, 2015, 11:24:47 amThat's way, way, way too much for such an old beast (2009/2010). Keep looking around for better deals. (At that price, I'd expect something from 2012 or 2013, depending on specs.)And indeed, if your goal is only to run Windows software, then buying a used Windows laptop is clearly the smarter choice (Apple gear depreciates far, far slower than similarly-specced non-Apple gear).If you want to run Mac software, then frankly I'd save up to buy a new MacBook, and buy right when new models are released (and dig up your student ID to get the education discount). Then take advantage of its high resale value, rather than be the victim of it!

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 01:47:34 am
content: Thanks for the replies, you all just saved me buying the wrong laptop.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 04:55:44 pm
content: If this "bootcamp" allows you to create a separate partition and install Windows on it, does that mean that you can ditch the Apple OS altogether and install just Windows? The reason this combination may be desirable is because there aren't that many options to get retina (hi-res) screens on the 13" (and 17") format, since most hi-end laptop screens are "stuck" on the 1920x1080 resolution.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 05:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: akis on December 18, 2015, 04:55:44 pmYes.Downsides: Stupid Apple keyboard layout, poor support for high-res displays.

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 06:03:51 pm
content: Possible word of warning if you want to run Windows 10 on it.I have a 2012 Macbook that ran Windows 7 fine alongside OSX using Bootcamp.Windows 10 also worked up until early Novembers major update. Now the internal screen fails to work on 10 although an external monitor is fine. From a lot of searching and question asking on Apple forums, seems I am stuffed until or if drivers are re-done.Back to Windows 7 I guess.Please do not moan at me for owning Apple, I have and use Win/OSX and Linux machines and have only one axe for wood that does not need grinding.Tony

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 06:12:07 pm
content: I presume most/all hardware on the Macbook is Apple proprietary and you'd need drivers written only by Apple ? And I also presume Apple are not under any great pressure to create good quality Windows drivers?Anyway Windows 7 is great - that's what we have here and have not yet bothered to upgrade to 10.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 06:14:05 pm
content: Quote from: akis on December 18, 2015, 06:12:07 pmNot really. The CPU, chipset, video, wifi, bluetooth.. all off-the-shelf, boring hardware. Input devices are just USB HID. The few bits which need extra drivers, they provide them (what would the point of releasing Bootcamp be if it didn't work?).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 07:13:26 pm
content: Quote from: akis on December 18, 2015, 04:55:44 pmYes, and some people do just that.Boot Camp is basically three parts:BIOS compatibility mode in the EFI firmware (already present on most Intel Macs)Boot Camp utility, which hot-partitions the boot driveDevice driversQuote from: akis on December 18, 2015, 06:12:07 pmMostly incorrect, as Monkeh already said. The only real exceptions are the trackpad drivers, certain graphics drivers (maybe because of Thunderbolt? Cuz the GPUs themselves are absolutely off-the-shelf…), brightness sensor, and the Startup Disk utility for Windows, to let you choose the boot disk (since there's no BIOS menu).Quote from: akis on December 18, 2015, 06:12:07 pmYes and no. The fact is, most of the drivers are simply the reference drivers from the component manufacturers. Apple just wrapped them up into a no-nonsense installer that just works (see below).As for the ones Apple itself develops, it's a mixed bag. So far, Apple has only made absolutely barebones drivers for its trackpads, sadly. I wanna say that there have also been some issues at times with audio routing (since Apple does funky things like supporting the microphone and buttons in iPhone headsets, on Macs). But everything else seems quite solid.You might recall that a few years ago, PC Magazine (I think) selected a MacBook Pro as their top Windows laptop, because it managed to outperform every Windows laptop they had tested to date. The fact that Apple doesn't install any shovelware is of course hugely relevant, but it appears (according to people who've investigated more closely) that since Apple knows the exact hardware configs, they also tweaked the driver settings for great performance, better than the OEM driver installers' own autodetection might do.Quote from: Monkeh on December 18, 2015, 06:14:05 pmExactly. Apple's not stupid. If anything, Apple has a vested interest in Boot Camp working really, really well: Apple doesn't live in a bubble. It needs Windows PCs for developing Windows software (iTunes and QuickTime, primarily), and probably for running all sorts of engineering and prototyping machinery that requires Windows. In the PowerPC days, Apple had to buy Windows machines from other vendors to fill this need; now they run their own.When I first started working at the Apple Store, they had an HP laptop hidden in the back for the techs to use to service Windows-formatted iPods, whose internal hard disks were formatted to FAT or HFS+ to match their host computer's OS. The instant Boot Camp was released, the customer-facing MacBook Pros at the Genius Bar were configured to dual-boot and the HP laptops vanished.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 08:08:56 pm
content: Thanks.I am trying to find which 13" laptop can match the spec of the macbook pro 13" 2015, and at what price, and there is not a lot out there, if anything.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2015, 04:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: akis on December 18, 2015, 04:55:44 pmThere are a some high resolution Windows laptops available with smaller screen sizes e.g. Dell XPS 13 (13.3"), Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro (13.3") and Samsung Ativ Book 9 (12.2") all have 3,200 x 1,800 resolution.