HP 53310A      Modulation Domain Analyzer      -frequency microscope- - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 08:11:23 am
content: Hi to the group,i would like to introduce my new toy (Christmas gift) -HP 53310AModulation Domain AnalyzerMaybe -frequency oscilloscope- or even -frequency microscope- is better name.Unfortunately, there's remarkably little info about this exceptional instrument,these are like Cinderella in the world of instruments.Anyway, here are the two pictures(histograms) from two 10MHz signals:first one is legendary HP 10811 oven oscillator,second one is from GPS freq. standard (unbelievable bad one).It is clearly visible how good venerable 10811 is (phase noise and jitter are superb)and how corrupt is another one.In both cases 53310A settings are the same - frequency span is only1(one)Hz,and by far that is not a limit of 53310A!Regards

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 10:34:09 am
content: Geller did a writeup of it. Always wanted one, but the cost and the size were to much.http://www.gellerlabs.com/hp53310A.htm

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 02:37:29 pm
content: Yes, one would pay a little bit more, but not more than for a proper frequency counter,so for the same money you get a high-end instrument with unbeatable features.Now you can measure and visualize processes which were untouchable before -the whole microcosm within one single signal!Besides that, the fun factor is tremendous.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:04:37 pm
content: Another interesting case:HP 10811 vs high quality IQ-DDS generator (DL1SNG/DL1FAC)1- HP 10811it is presented beautiful Gaussian distribution by 200mHz span,and frequency vs time diagram by 200mHz span2-IQ-DDSin contrary, by 200mH span frequency distribution was almost terrible,therefore distribution by 500mHz span,and frequency vs time diagram, but by 10Hz spanUnfortunately, as everything in lifeHP oscillator isn't perfect:harmonic distortion by HP is only 25dB down,in contrary by IQ-DDS almost unmeasurable!

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 04:37:45 am
content: There are a couple threads on that instrument here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-53310a-modulation-domain-analyzer/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-53310a-power-supply-troubles/Which reminds me that I still have to work on my power supply for preventive-maintenance.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 01:48:47 pm
content: I have checked power supply, but didn't find anything of concern.Although my 53310a appears to be old, surprisingly inside is everything so cleanand tidy that i do not see the reason for any action.Of course i could be wrong.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 08:20:50 am
content: By chance I also got myself one of these instruments - the opportunity was too good to let pass. My particular 53310A has suffered from some rough handling but that's basically cosmetic flaws that can be taken care of one or the other way. It's equipped with Option 31 which includes channel C along with a divider / local oscillator / down converter assembly. Basic function is okay but there's a fault in the local oscillator assembly in that all four frequencies that are derived from the 625MHz fundamental result as "FAIL" in the self test of the A12 assembly. Other LO frequencies and divide mode work flawlessly.Unfortunately, accessibility of the boards with the instrument working to take measurements, is at least difficult, so my inquiry to the group: Has anyone got experience in repairing these instruments and has anybody got a full schematic that he / she would share with me?Thanks,Thomas

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 09:35:31 am
content: Hi Thomas,sorry to hear that,i have tray to find a service manual, til now no luck.But, on the other hand it's good to hear that you have this instrument -that's like some kind of insurance for us others -knowing your skills, it's only matter of time and HP will be fixedBay the way, is any battery in it, is replacement necessary,what is your opinion, please?Best regards,Bozidar-

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 12:15:37 pm
content: If you go to Keysight:http://www.keysight.com/main/home.jspx?cc=US&lc=engAnd search for "53310A":http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000001397%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-53310A/modulation-domain-analyzer?cc=US&lc=eng&lsrch=true&searchT=53310AThere are 12 documents and manuals under the "Document Library" tab.The last one listed is "53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer Service Manual", which may contain the service information you need.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 12:38:26 pm
content: Thanks Tomorokoshi,I downloaded these already and also checked other possible sources on the web. All the Service information available describes testing and fault locating procedures on assembly level which unfortunately won't help me since I'm pretty sure which module is the faulty one...What I need apparently is called "component level information package" (CLIP). There's a company on the web that offers this for sale and I'll probably spend the money on that if actually the A12 assembly is included in their documents. I only thought maybe someone got the mentioned documents with his 53310A and could scan/photograph the schematics pages for me. Anyway, I'm quite positive that one way or the other I'll get the problem fixed, if necessary even without the schematic.Yet, the Schematic might be interesting anyway in order to understand how exactly the MDA works. Some of its functions require very tricky approaches at it seems, and I didn't find a detailed block diagram to visualize its working principle in any of the related documents.Cheers,Thomas

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 02:51:14 pm
content: Oh my God,i was many times on that site and didn't see the service manual -I'm getting oldTnx and regards

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 01:07:36 am
content: Okay, I got the local oscillator board repaired again, but what the heck, this was quite a job...Actually, there wasn't any particular component really faulty, it just appeared that the VCO module (Vari-L SVCO-1124) has slightly drifted over time towards higher frequencies. This must have shifted the frequency range that could be covered with the phase control loop filter just out of the required range at the low end. I measured that at 625MHz I couldn't get a lock but at 630 the PLL would lock perfectly stable. My approach was now to just shift the voltage at the VCO control terminal lower by about 300mV (there was enough margin there) without affecting the loop filter characteristics otherwise. In the path from the last OP27 to the VCO there's a voltage divider of 464 ohms in series and 1960 ohms to ground, resulting in a divison factor of 0.81. I simply replaced the 1960 ohms resistor by another divider of 2.2k to ground and 18k to the negative rail (-15V) of the opamps.This actually did the trick and the PLL again locks over the full frequency range without a problem.The option 31 is quite an improvement over option 30 (which is more or less included and consists only of a frequency divider for the input signal). Since option 31 is a complete down-converter, the instrument maintains the same accuracy as on the lower frequency channels up to 2.5GHz. Now my MDA needs to be "touched up" a little and finally I'll try to install the memory extension, this should be possible since there are sockets installed on the main (A1) board and also some jumpers labled 16k / 64k. When the chips that I think will fit drop in, I'll give it a try...Anyway, if anybody "stumbles" across a component-level circuit diagram for the instrument, I'll be highly interested...Cheers,Thomas

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 08:37:33 pm
content: Here's how to install option 001 (extended memory) in a 53310A that came without it (if anybody's interested to upgrade his MDA):You need 4 Cypress CY7C194-25PC (or Hitachi HM6708P-25 or Motorola MCM6208P25 or equivalent) 64k*4 SRAM chips (DIL24 casing) and one 2.54mm jumper.Disconnect the connectors from the CRT display board and lift the board in its guide a few centimeters so the sockets lalbeled U68~U71 become accessible. Insert the SRAM chips in the sockets. Move the two jumpers XW2 and XW7 from the position "16k" to "64k". Place a jumper on XW8/SEL1. All these jumpers are located in close proximity of the SRAM sockets and can be easily accessed with the CRT board lifted.After this, slide the CRT board back down and reconnect all the connectors. That's it, now your MDA should report the extended memory option installed.Have fun,Thomas

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2017, 10:29:46 pm
content: As i have just said,it took a short time, and 53310A is not only fixed but also upgraded.Thomas you are truly Turbo, awesome!Regards

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 04:24:30 am
content: Someone on eevblog suggested the 53310A to me and I like them so much that now there are 3 in the lab!But now I have a retro-computing challenge. There is 53305A phase analysis software that can still be downloaded from Keysight website. It works by getting continuous time stamps from 53310A over GPIB. From the time stamps it can calculate phase deviations and other parameters for a periodic signal. The software is circa 1994 and only runs on a 32-bit machine in 16-bit mode. It's designed to use a GPIB-AT card, so I haven't tried to interface it with the instrument.The problem is that the 53310A programming documentation does not have any info on measuring time stamps. If I open the software with a hex editor I find many undocumented commands, such as CONF:XTIM:TST (timestamp?) and a whole bunch more.I haven't tried to figure out the undocumented commands yet. Perhaps someone has an idea how to do it efficiently, maybe use a decompiler or a GPIB sniffer on a really old machine.It would be good to recreate a modern version of this software. Not many frequency counters can measure continuous time stamps and the ones that do cost many times what a used 53310 does.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 06:33:14 am
content: I poked a little more at the 53305A phase analysis software. It is written in Visual Basic 3.0, so can be almost perfectly decompiled to original code using DoDi decompiler:http://vbdis4.angelfire.com/It maybe possible to recompile it in a newer version of VB and including newer GPIB drivers so the program would work on a modern computer.I don't have any experience doing VB programming, though. So if anyone with experience wants to jump in, it would go a lot faster. I can share the VB3.0 code I have so far.

author: rfspezi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2019, 11:32:56 am
content: I wonder if the 53310A can be used to measure Allan deviation with a software like TimeLab or similar?

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2019, 01:59:28 pm
content: See this threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/hp53310a-and-other-counter-allan-deviation/HP53310 has low noise floor for Allan deviation measurements, but it has some limitations. It can not do gap-free long-term measurements. You can either get separate readings with some gaps or store continuous measurements for a maximum of 800 sec into memory.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 12:17:12 am
content: I was able to pick up a nice 53310A including Option 31 (2.5GHz Channel C). Also found a second 53310A that was listed as having some display problems for cheap but it included Option 10 (HP 10811 OCXO). The entire back panel assembly is Option 10, just swapped them around and now I have a fully functional unit with Option 10 and 31. Also have 4x CY7C194-25PC CY7C194 64K x 4 Static RAM's coming so I can give it option 01, thanks TurboTom for the info above!Option 10 OCXO and linear power supply which always runs;The 10811 OCXO;Only had a few min here and there to play with it, but found some interesting things regarding my 10MHz references.HP 53132A with High Stability OCXO (HP Option 10);BG7TBL GPSDO with UCT 108663 OCXO;BG7TBL 10MHz Distribution Amp with UCT 108663 OCXO;Siglent AWG reference out;BG7TBL Distribution Amp with GPSDO feeding;So the cleanest signal appears to be from the BG7TBL distribution amp when being fed from the GPSDO, followed by the distribution amp running on its internal UCT 108663 OCXO, then GPSDO direct, then the HP 53132A's 10811 OCXO out, then the Siglent AWG reference out. Interesting that the distribution amp seems to clean up the GPSDO some. Anyway, this is far from scientific, just me fooling around. I have lots to read and lean about this instrument and how to use it properly.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 01:28:05 pm
content: Just for future reference, found a bunch of HP Application Notes for the 53310A;AN-1200-1 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Simplified Motor Spin-Up Analysishttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-1.pdfAN-1200-2 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Direct Characterization of Motion Control Systemshttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-2.pdfAN-1200-3 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - VCO Step Response Analysis Made Easyhttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-3.pdfAN-1200-4 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Quick Identification of Periodic Jitter Sourceshttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-4.pdfAN-1200-5 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Fast Characterization of Pulse Width Encoded Datahttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-5.pdfAN-1200-6 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Simple Analysis of Frequency Modulationhttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-6.pdfAN-1200-7 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Simplified Analysis of Phase-Locked Loop Captureand Tracking Rangehttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-7.pdfAN-1200-8 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Single Shoot Frequency Profiling of Chirped Radars Made Easyhttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-8.pdfAN-1200-9 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Histograms Simplify Analysis of Random Jitterhttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-9.pdfAN-1200-10 1990 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Examine Channel Switching Characteristics ofCellular Radioshttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-10.pdfAN-1200-11 1993 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Examine GMSK Modulation in GSM and PCN Mobile Communications Systemshttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-11.pdfAN-1200-12 1991 53310A HP 53310A Modulation Domain Analyzer - Peak Deviation and Center Frequency Measurements for CT2 and DECT Radioshttp://hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_1200-12.pdfLinks to all the guides, operating and service manuals;http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=HP_Agilent/HP_53310_Modulation_Domain_AnalyzerHP 53310A Operating Reference.pdfhttps://doc.xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2053310A%20Operating%20Reference.pdfHP 53310A Opt. 31 User.pdfhttps://doc.xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2053310A%20Opt.%2031%20User.pdfHP 53310A Programming Quick Reference.pdfhttps://doc.xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2053310A%20Programming%20Quick%20Reference.pdfHP 53310A Programming Reference.pdfhttps://doc.xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2053310A%20Programming%20Reference.pdfHP 53310A Ser.pdfhttps://doc.xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2053310A%20Ser.pdfHP 53310A Service.pdfhttps://doc.xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/HP%2053310A%20Service.pdfDisappointingly, I was not able to find any HP Journal articles.Edit, attaching a cached PDF of Geller Labs overview

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 03:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on April 14, 2019, 01:28:05 pmThere is this one mention in Bench Briefs:http://hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1994-04-06.pdf

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 09:39:12 pm
content: Hello Folks,sorry to chime in here again - but my HP 53310A just went tits up. I started it, the screen was full of vertical lines (looked like a video card sync fail to me). Powered it off, on again and nothing to be seen on the screen.I already opened the unit and the CRT filament is hot. However, I see all (!!!) of the red LEDs on the A13 CPU card (the one below the Boeschert cartridge) being lit. Could anyone of you take a look whether they are lit or dark on a working 53310A - I do have the CLIP from Artek, but it is suprisingly silent on this matter.Tam

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2019, 09:57:13 pm
content: Hello Folks,and the saga is getting weirder.Called my wife, we started to go through the service manual tour a tour. Removed the cable interconnecting the display and the CPU board, and reinstalled it. Powered the unit on and off a few times, got nothing and all the LEDs on the CPU board stayed lit (!!!).After that, we let it sit powered off for some time and powered it up again. He started with a message stating that he found an invalid instruction which can be cleared by power cycling with a pressed front panel button (any). Did that, got it working but requiring a self cal to pass all (!!!) self tests.By the way, the LEDs go off as parts of the test pass, and when running, you get a KIT-like light effect.Tam

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 08:23:15 am
content: @Tam -my suggestion would be to have a good look at the supply rails, especially the 5V. The CPU board contians a reset chip (U14, DS1232S) that is configured for a tolerance range of 5%. If the 5V rail stays or repeatedly drops below about 4.7V, it will keep the CPU in reset. As you probably know, the Boeschert supplies are notorious for leaking electrolytics and this may well manifest in drooping voltage levels.Cheers,Thomas

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 02:04:12 pm
content: Hello,thanks for talking back!I forgot to add: the Boeschert cartridge was totally recapped one year ago or so. So that most probably could not have been the source of the problem.As of this writing, however, the machine still works...Tam

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 11:20:14 am
content: Here is the summary of the HP53310 frequency standard deviation for counting its own internal reference as a function of the time sampling interval (called "Interval at center"). As shown in this post it is actually equal to 1/3 of the normal gate time for a counter:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/hp53310a-and-other-counter-allan-deviation/msg2342007/#msg2342007EDIT: The plot is updated. After comparing two HP53310 and fixing the power supply in one, the results are better

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 08:07:37 pm
content: Short video showing how the MDA can be used to tune a reference oscillator more quickly than with a counter.https://youtu.be/ly6b49ZyaRg

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 01:05:05 am
content: Quote from: TurboTom on January 30, 2017, 08:37:33 pmWorked perfect, thanks Tom!Edit: I have 4 extra NOS Cypress SRAM chips if anyone else is would like to add the extended memory.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 01:28:53 am
content: Quote from: kj7e on April 23, 2019, 01:05:05 amYep. I just don't have a 53310A for them to go into, yet. But it's on the shopping list.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 03:35:33 pm
content: For power supply repair and parts info, I posted some photos and attached an xls spreadsheet with Digikey part numbers here;https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-53310a-power-supply-troubles/msg2365593/#msg2365593

author: mark03
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 05:18:08 pm
content: If anyone needs to replace a defective part in their 53310a, send me a PM. I acquired four of these MDAs at auction a couple of years ago, sold one and kept two. Out of the four units, one had been cannibalized for its display PCB but was otherwise OK. I searched for a replacement without success, and at this point prices for complete units are so low that it's not worth fixing/shipping a full analyzer anyway. So, time to part it out. Forum members with a good story may get a special priceEdit... This was a rather strange unit, originally built with option 031 but later with that option deleted, yet some (all?) of the hardware left inside. Boards / part numbers available:53310-60007 A1 (main board with extended memory)53310-69002 A2 (input) somewhat inexplicably with four BNC connectors but not the part number of an option 030 or 031 A2 board53310-60017 A3 (CPU)53310-60014 A12 (LO)CRT, front panel, back panel may try to sell as a single "carcass".

author: mark03
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 11:47:03 pm
content: Has anyone needed to replace the battery-backed "Zeropower SRAM" on the CPU board yet? part # M48Z18-100PC. ST's datasheet says they are good for at least ten years of power-off time. Mine has a date code from 1997!

author: mightyohm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2022, 10:46:50 am
content: Quote from: mark03 on June 24, 2019, 11:47:03 pmToday I replaced the ST M48Z18B Zeropower NVRAM in with new Dallas DS1225AD-150+.One of my MDAs uses a M48Z18B-15, which is why I had ordered the slower Dallas device. If I had known the other MDA had a -10 I would have ordered a faster replacement for both. I suspect that it's not very critical.I was able to read the existing contents of the NVRAM with my GQ USB programmer and program the new ICs before installing them.Everything seems to be working. Saved states were preserved.The NVRAM is socketed which makes the job very easy. (thanks HP!)Now I should be good for another 10-20 years..

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2022, 04:37:41 pm
content: Is it important to preserve the NVRAM contents or will the self-calibration replace everything ?

author: mightyohm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2022, 07:07:04 pm
content: Quote from: artag on November 19, 2022, 04:37:41 pmI don't know, so I decided to play it safe and copy the contents.The contents are mostly not human readable, but the CPU board firmware version is stored as a string in NVRAM... Not sure what happens if that string is missing or if it does not match the currently installed firmware.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 02:35:15 am
content: The service manual simply says: Key-down powerup may be performed on the HP 53310A before selftests are invoked. If the data stored in non-volatile memory is corrupt as indicated by improper operation, perform the "Key-down Powerup" and the "Calibration" procedures in Chapter 3 (Adjustments and Calibration).So it's probably OK if NVRAM is lost, since the calibration procedure is really easy.

author: zrq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 10:31:21 am
content: Does anyone have a BOM for recapping the 53310A? My unit is a late Malaysia Agilent version, but still kind of afraid...Also I would be interested if any one in Europe would like to sell some parts for retrofitting Opt. 31 or 30? (although not very likely...)

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2022, 06:20:02 am
content: There is a thread on replacing capacitors in the power supply which gives the list of electrolytic capacitorshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-53310a-power-supply-troubles/?allThey do tend to leak in some units.