Kiss-CAD...A New PCB CAD Design Package. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jrkirk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 12:53:41 am
content: I'm a big follower of Dave Jones (EEVBlog) and Chris Gammell (Contextual Electronics), and I'm a weekly listener of their Amp Hour Podcast. When it comes to PCB design, specifically KiCAD...Chris has really been a huge supporter.I was unable to attend Chris's recent KiCon meetup in Chicago, but after viewing the videos of the event on Chris's Contextual Electronics Channel, I was inspired into action.At first I was going to post this on the KiCAD forum, but I got cold feet, since that forum is rightly dedicated to KiCAD. So perhaps this is ultimately the right place...as there are many users of many different PCB Design packages...and many differing opinions...Anyhow, for the past 4 years I have been developing a new PCB-CAD Design software package. I never knew how far my efforts would get me, but the software has reached a point of being pretty darn good. It has nowhere near the capabilities of a KiCAD, but being "feature-poor" perhaps has its benefits of being a bit more "noobie-friendly".I call the software "Kiss-CAD", in reference to "The KISS Principle"......"Keep It Simple (stupid)"...This software specifically targets the weekend hobbyist who wants to produce simple 2-Layer and 4-Layer Boards.Utmost in importance is an "Easy to Grasp" User Interface and an effort "to eliminate" all unnecessary bells and whistles.So, I want to get some feedback...and perhaps (at some point) release Kiss-CAD as free software.But how do I get the word out?I never thought I'd ever set up a YouTube Channel and produce videos. But, over the past few days I've downloaded the "Free Version" of Flashback Express. It's a video recording software that has the necessary screen capture video capabilities. I also purchased a Logitech Gamers headset/microphone.So, my "Kiss-CAD" YouTube Channel is up and running, and, as of now, I have uploaded 4 videos introducing my software.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsQyo4TeRsftKbBuoQprugAGive the videos a look-see and let me know what you think.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 02:13:07 am
content: Just doing a small part of what you've achieved there is very impressive, and you should rightly feel proud about it.I think your user interface could do with some work, though. I am not a fan of letting it all hang out with every function visible on its own button, list or edit box. There are a couple of reasons for this:1. It's a drag (no pun intended!) to keep moving the mouse right across the screen to select things and then go back and do things. My mouse has a 'back' button on it so you don't need to keep moving up to the address bar to hit the back button, and now I really can't use a mouse that doesn't have such a button because it's so tedious to select back. Same with the scrollbar - once you've used a wheel mouse, having to actually drag the scrollbar is prehistoric, and I find I tend not to use a browser so much. Right click context menus and hotkeys got invented for a reason.2. It's overwhelming to a new user. They will look at that mass of buttons and edit boxes and their mind will blank.3. You're going to run out of space as you add more stuff. In fact, you've already run out of space because you're assuming the user's screen will be at least as big as yours. And that discounts users who want to run this in a non-maxed window. What happens if the window size is half yours? Do the buttons on the right just no show, get scrolled into view, wrap to the next line?I am trying not to be negative with this because, as I say, many would have given up before they get even part way to where you are. It's also easy to say what one thinks is wrong and much harder to suggest a fix! Unfortunately, when I try to figure one I keep coming back to collapsed options (so, 'Draw' is a button which expands to show all the draw options, and maybe changes to show which is selected), and you're not keen on that. Doing it that way could make a right-click context menu simpler because it could show exactly the same thing (that is, a draw option which expands to show the possibilties, changing to whatever is selected).I'll be interested to see how this progresses.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 02:59:12 am
content: Agree with whar's said above... overwhelmingLack of standard UI ... no file / edit / view / tools / help menu... i expect new/open/save as/recent etc in file menumaybe place 32x32 / 48x48 / 64x64 buttons/icons on toolbars you can move around, "stick" to sides of app window aka when toolbar gets within n pixels from another tooolbar or edge "snap" to it)weird font... why not stick to standard built in onesyelllow/cream background is poor choice, tiring... maybe i don'twant to light up y room when working art night... can it do black with silver/gray (or other colors) grid ?text in buttons of various sizes is not good. you claim it's to make it easy... what happens if you implement multi-language later by language files?How about DPI aware (what if user has a 27" 4k screen so he has 200% dpi or whatever..checked video... is mil hardcoded? didn't see mil/mm choice... there are parts that use mm to define footprint.click on button then expect to type somewhere (filename for ex.) for action to complete is not good... users may not notice blinking cursor .. why type whole file name?is there support for 1 layer pcb (silkscreen/text oonn top, copper on bottom)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 04:06:52 am
content: Looks like it has a long way to go on the UI I'm afraid, and therein lies the problem with new CAD software, it's a multi-year, multi-decade process of refinement.Of course you are to be congratulated on writing your own CAD software, that's awesome, and certainly release it to see what interest there is. You are probably in the right place here.But I have to be honest, the engineering world doesn't really need another PCB CAD software option. KiCAD is just killing it in the free software world, it's already cemented itself as the defacto free standard.Of course there is always room for a compellingly better product to come along that wows people, but I'm afraid I don't see anything here that is close to doing that.That sadly means that the chance of finding people to help out with it, test it, suggest improvements, and help out with the code is going to be slim.For an example of what a one-man-band has done in PCB CAD software look at AutoTrax, not to be confused with the old Protel/Altium Autotrax which he stole the name from and Altium didn't bother to fight it much.https://active3d.com/He's been working on that for like 20 years or something, and this what you'd be competing with. Although it's not free, $65 is an almost free price.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 04:13:21 am
content: I like the snapshot feature when you create the gerbers.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 07:02:42 pm
content: You may have a problem here with the name, unless this is the same software:http://ludens.cl/Electron/kisscad/kisscad.html

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 03:38:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 08, 2019, 04:06:52 amI'm not sure. I can't think of any other type of software besides PCB design software which has so many different different packages out there. For anything else there is some kind of defacto standard package everyone is using.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 07:03:48 pm
content: QuoteEmail.Web browser.Word wranglingPIMsCalendarsOr did you mean 'package' as in libraries? Even then, it's the same - plenty of other incompatible stuff but, like PCB CAD, there are compatible import and export options. Gerber is a standard they all 'do', isn't it?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 07:32:12 pm
content: You can count popular e-mail programs, web browsers, word processors, etc each on one hand.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 07:53:00 pm
content: Ah! Now it's filtered with 'popular'You might be surprised. There is a lot of stuff that flies under one's radar. On Android, for instance, try this:https://play.google.com/store/search?q=email&c=appsOver on Windows there is Outlook, Gmail, Thunderbird, Mailbird, eM Client, Zimbra, Zoot, Claws, etc.Then there is Linux, but I've run out of steam now and haven't even got to iPhone! I think those are rather more than 'popular' PCB packages, and we could repeat the exercise with the same results for all the other applications (and more) that I mention.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 08:31:24 pm
content: Ofcourse it is filtered by popular; it should have been obvious without saying. Just look at the software specific sections in the "EDA" section and Dave has left several major players out. Try that with mechanics software. The list probably ends with Solidworks and Autocad (or the latest incarnation of the latter). Adobe pretty much rules in the publishing world.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 08:31:52 pm
content: The main thing all EDA Software lacks is a good, modern and intuitive UI and UX. Sadly, your software currently sets a quite bad example in those disciplines. Maybe first try to improve on that, before implementing more features.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 10:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on June 17, 2019, 08:31:52 pmIMHO there is no such thing as a good UI. A UI which guides you through a program so it is intuitive to use is not productive and vice versa. What is good depends on your goal.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 09:52:39 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2019, 10:35:49 pmA UI that is easy to use can also be quite productive. Take a look at the autodesk products, for example.Also, even if you want to have your UI on the "advanced" side, it still doesn't need to look like it came straight out of Windows 95.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 07:54:46 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on June 18, 2019, 09:52:39 amA matter of opinion. I am often more productive with old applications (e.g. Autocad LT98 or LT2000 I am using) than with the modern crap (ribbon based stuff, windows 10, constantly changing UI on webpages (responsive)). However, I had to age a bit to understand why the elderly complain.