Hot Air Pump diaphragm vs Squirrel fan - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: james3
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 08:16:59 am
content: Hello there,I see that around the market there are so many Hot Air station, but I'm not understanding the differences between diaphragm pump hot air and fan hot air station.Which one is better? Which one is more reliable ?And why diaphragm pump seems mostly to have less wattage compared to the fan version (ex. my Atten 8586?)Can anyone give me an explanation ?thanks for your support

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 08:26:22 am
content: Quote from: james3 on April 05, 2015, 08:16:59 amWhat's not to understand? One is a positive displacement pump and the other a centrifugal blower. Both are generally cheap chinese knockoffs and it's a crap-shoot as to which one lasts longer.The pump will move roughly the same amount of air regardless of pressure (for certain definitions of regardless), the blower will move more air at a lower pressure. To impart the same temperature gradient into more air then you need more watts.I have an Aoyue 968, it has a double acting positive displacement pump and it works ok for me. The positive displacement pump has no bearings and a couple of rubber diaphragms. The centrifugal blower has bearings and no rubber bits to wear out, but may or may not have brushes. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. If the rubber in my pump fails, I can cut another piece from the many sheets of various rubber I have floating around, so I can fix it myself. Having said that, I've also fixed blowers before by replacing bearings and fabricating new brushes.I can use the vacuum side of my pump as a pick up tool. Use whatever works for you and be happy

author: james3
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 10:31:15 am
content: Quote from: BradC on April 05, 2015, 08:26:22 amThanks!

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 10:36:39 am
content: Quote from: BradC on April 05, 2015, 08:26:22 amA centrifugal blower will outlast any similarly-priced pump, solely due to the reduced mechanical complexity. Plus it'll have a BLDC motor as opposed to a shitty brushed motor. They're also way quieter - I can't stand the typical pump rattle.I'd go for a blower design any day.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 11:18:15 am
content: Quote from: BradC on April 05, 2015, 08:26:22 amno brushes, 24v bldc motorQuote from: BradC on April 05, 2015, 08:26:22 amor for desoldering gun - this is imo the biggest plus of diaphragm pump designs, you can attach 4 tools to one box-hotair-desoldering gun : cheapest upgrade ever, $20 foe the gun part.-vacuum pick-and least useful smoke extractor directly over the soldering iron like on 968Quote from: ovnr on April 05, 2015, 10:36:39 amtrue, on the other hand blower in the gun itself makes it vibrate, can get irritating

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 11:38:44 am
content: I myself found a setup with a blower much better thsn the pump. Because the air from a blower is at low pressure with high volume and the pump is more at a higher pressure. The pump is not going to blow your parts away but it will heat up the sorrounding area much faster. I found I have better control with much better results with the blower model; and not any where as loud as a pump model, sometimes I forget it is even on!For me I dreaded the pump equipped rework station. I would slways manage to lift a pad or two, yikes! When we got the upgraded rework stations wow! What a huge difference, no more lifted pads. Well, almost - I still manage to lift a pad but not nearly as often as I did before and the reason for that is a girl in my lab class but that is another story for a another forum.We have both at school and everyone there always starts using the blower equipped stations first.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 02:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: Docholiday on April 05, 2015, 11:38:44 amwhat model of hotair gun were you using?I never had that problem with 852/868 models, they have an air pressure regulator with a metal ball airflow gauge, you can set precisely airflow you wantthis sounds like your box was on vacuum setting while you were using hotair gun - pump goes full blast in that modeQuote from: Docholiday on April 05, 2015, 11:38:44 amsounds like operator errorand/or lack of pcb preheater

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 03:39:41 pm
content: Rasz,Wow that is pretty high tech! What we had a school now replaced with Hakko products was nothing like what you describe! Are were basicaly on/off and temp control from 1-10 thats it. Not even a power indicator of any type. You had to remember on is down and off is up. The text was worn off on the on off switch.A pcb heater we just got and max board size is 14x17. Although, all our boards are sent out for fab. No in house fab allowed because of cancerous chemicals and lead free solder is only allowed. No pcb larger than 5x7 can be populated at school. Rules created by consultant representing the schools insurrance company.Operator error! Yep indeed and dam proud of it too!. Seriously, just starting this endeavor I am sure you must have lifted some pads in you life too?During this summer we are getting new Tek MDO 3000's, And bunch of other test equipment.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 12:32:25 am
content: Quote from: Docholiday on April 05, 2015, 03:39:41 pmAnd nobody has a problem with that, it's just the way you wrote it made it sound like you were blaming the tools (particularly a positive displacement pump hot air station) and pointing out that would not happen with a centrifugal blower unit, when in reality the type of hot air station had absolutely nothing to do with it.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 02:47:14 am
content: No, I was not trying to blame the tool in general. What we had in school and learned on was an old system not much function and features. No flow control and preset from the factory. So you had to be careful and pay real close attention to what you were doing. These new Hakko stations with constant temp with air flow monitoring are a dream. Have you checked out there new turbine air station? An actual turbine in the handle. I want it! But at 700 dollars US a little stiff for me. Maybe Santa will bring it? I dont know if I need it but I want it. I am little sided with blower though the concept of using basically a modified fish tank pump dosen't seem right to me. I know I am going to get flamed for writting that, Oh well. I have an older Hakko 852-2 that I got for 50 US dollars. Not working of course, power light came on and that was it. Took it apart two thing wrong one of the air hoses cracked and main pcb broken. Total fix 60 dollars. Thought I may need to replace pump but during research found out pump made in japan that supplies these pumps for marine and industrial applications. I was really expecting something else as these units are pretty expensive. So that is what left me with a bad impression about these positive displacement versus centrifugal pumps. I even found a replacement pump at the fish tank store for 80 dollars an at 4.2 lpm versus the 1.2 lpm that come with it at 400 US dollars. I was really expecting to see a high tech polished pump big dissappointment!

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2015, 03:09:27 am
content: Quote from: zhaohua12 on July 31, 2015, 02:46:16 amBan.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 02:20:26 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on April 05, 2015, 11:18:15 amIt may seem like you would save money building a hot-air tool and a desoldering tool with the same pump, but you don't want to do that. I know there are some tools set up this way, most famously Pace MBT. But there are some real problems with this arrangement, like flux fumes traveling through the pump and into the hot-air tool. You also want a much greater flow rate in a vacuum desoldering tool than a hot-air tool.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 07:32:35 am
content: I have a copy of the famous Atten 858D and as Dave said, it's worth every cent you paid and we can not do without it.The principle of centrifugal fan is just great and avoids having an air tube connecting the iron to the station.It is also an economical, reliable and simple solution ...This is in my opinion a solution that I would compare to the principle of temperature control by Curie used in Weller Magnastat soldering irons, simple and very effective

author: suryaputhra
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 02:19:02 pm
content: I have both, in my opinion pump type is good and long lasting, we can fix easily with similar thickness rubber for diaphragm repair, but in case of blower you need the change the blower fan itself. In my experience blowers start wearing out early. You need little bit of pressure while working, only diaphragm pump can provide that.-suryaputhra

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 06:24:53 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on April 05, 2015, 11:18:15 amSeems it really does depend on the unit.The Quick 861 stations we have do use a 24V BLDC, but the analog version of the 957 uses a brushed motor (digital versionblueskullhas a BLDC; photos on pg. 2).Source.Quote from: Docholiday on April 06, 2015, 02:47:14 amFWIW, the turbine pump is in the enclosure, not the handle. Nice, but expensive and the UI isn't that wonderful either.If you're interested in a turbine model that's well made for a lot less money, take a look at theQuick 861DW($236 is certainly easier to swallow). Very intuitive UI, friction fit nozzles (easy to swap), a decent stand, very nice set of features, and it's quieter than a diaphragm pump. Performance is what you'd expect from a proper 1kW hot air station as well, and members that own them are quite pleased with them overall based on their posts.Internal photosfrom another member (wrapper).

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2016, 10:38:07 pm
content: Yep, Hakko replaced the 8101 with the 8101B. A pump type and gone is the turbine. A dam shame too!

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 06:25:40 am
content: I have Yihua 858DI'm not that happy with the air flow rate. I went this type because of the centrifugal fan more flow rate than pump....but IMHO...its just too a low a flow rate. That 24V fan version..yep that'll do it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 07:13:27 am
content: Quote from: Docholiday on September 02, 2016, 10:38:07 pmDon't know what 8101 is and cannot find on google (do you mean FR-810?). But if the turbine fan is located in the box, and not in the handle, it's much better than diaphragm pump. Much wider airflow regulation range (low and high side extended) and uniform airflow which prevents knocking out small parts from the board.QuoteDon't know any decent station with turbine in the handle. All of them are cheap piece of shit. Not aware of any Hakko model with something like this.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 07:26:03 am
content: brushed motor easily available as replacement, not so with brushless, havent you seen BLDC fan broke? ymmv.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 10:11:51 am
content: Sorry, my fault it is the 810 replaced by the 810b model.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 10:27:58 am
content: Quote from: Docholiday on September 03, 2016, 10:11:51 amFR-810B has turbine fan.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 10:41:42 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 03, 2016, 10:27:58 amI dont know! Another mistake? I will have to check this later its 3:30am and still have not gone to bed. I have school in 4 hours.