Desoldering Tool Recommendation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Techniker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 08:36:55 pm
content: Hey guys,I have searched the forums finding various pros and cons but I am still undecided. I would value your input on a buying decision here- I am planning on purchasing a desoldering tool/station. This will be for commercial use (repairing vehicle PCMs, exhaust analyzers, electronic ballasts, etc.) but since I am just starting off and this is coming out of my own pocket and not my shop's I am trying to keep the costs down.I have narrowed the list down to three choices all of which are about the same price- the Aoyue 474Aa++, the ZD985, and the Hakko 808. I am also open to other suggestions. Performance is important, but I am far more concerned with reliability and even moreso than that- "repairability" (which seems to be largely determined in this specialty area by the availability of replacement parts).Thank you in advance,Techniker

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 09:11:40 pm
content: subscribed

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 09:31:29 pm
content: I've bought a 808 only because of its reliability and because I can find spare parts; for me is an essential requirement for a tool that must be exposed to flux and melted tin. And of course, you can buy many kind of nozzles.Unfortunately, it's a little bit heavy.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 10:13:01 pm
content: Between the three, and abandoning wick and a manual desoldering pump, I'd go for the Hakko.Perhaps not quite as easy to wield in your hand, but it's a known quantity regarding performance & reliability, and as mentioned, you can get spare parts beyond just tips. If you're concerned that it stays on when plugged in, another memberSLJ, has modified his to add an On/Off switch to the cord as a simple and easy solution.

author: Techniker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 10:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: mcinque on December 28, 2013, 09:31:29 pmI've heard great things overall about the 808 which is the way I am currently leaning- however there have been a few reports of the unit giving out after only a few months (usually the vacuum pump motor). However, there are other reports where professional technicians have left it on and used it all day for full shifts and it has lasted years on end- I guess it's the luck of the draw.The ZD985 that was reviewed in the EEVblog has quite a few posts with users receiving the unit DOA- not exactly confidence-inspiring. This wouldn't be as big of a deal but it seems that the unit is largely confined to sale in the South Pacific and a few importers in Eastern Europe. I have only been able to source one supplier in the US aside from sourcing it myself directly and, because of the minimum order, become a supplier myself- not something I want to be responsible for given the large number of DOA reports. Also individual parts for the repairing the station itself (motor, pump, etc.) seem to be nonexistent.As for the Aoyue 474a++, which I have had a good experience with in terms of their rework stations, there just seems to be a lack of user experience to base it off of. The reports I have found seem to indicate that it failed them when dealing with double-sided and/or multilayered PCBs- something which I deal with quite frequently...that being said I am hesitant to condemn a product based on single, isolated anecdotes; we have a phrase in medicine: anecdotal evidence, while often valuable, is the worst kind of evidence.-Techniker

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 02:15:39 am
content: I bought my Aoyue 474A++ from SRA Soldering Products, which appears to have been in business for quite some time. It looks like they carry most if not all the replacement parts you may need.http://sra-solder.com/product.php/7070/22/aoyue_474a_digital_desoldering_station

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 09:28:27 am
content: Quote from: Techniker on December 28, 2013, 10:16:52 pmThis is an advantage when you have a real warranty.However since the 808 vacuum motor has a thermal protection if you use it in a wrong way (i.e. when the nozzle is clogged) and since there are many 808 counterfeit around, for me is hard to tell if all the fails are due to a genuine defective motor.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 08:57:24 am
content: I'd go for a real brand like Hakko. As far as my experience goes with various desoldering irons (Pace, Ersa): they all clog up very easy so don't expect to clear lots of holes in one go. I'm using a bigger (external) vacuum pump with my Ersa desoldering iron which improves desoldering a lot. However for most jobs I use desoldering braid (the good stuff from Chemtronics).

author: The_Penguin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2014, 06:34:23 pm
content: I went with the Hakko 808, quite happy with it.We get completely *&^%ed on price in Canada. Most places were around $300.00Fry's had it for $179 but shipping was going to be $70.00.Luckily a family member was visiting from California, so had them pick it up and bring it with them.Haven't had too much need for it, as my (hobby) repairs had slowed down, but have a line-up of monitors ready for repair, so it will likely get more use this month.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2014, 06:58:23 pm
content: Here is 595€

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 02:57:58 am
content: Techniker, I just got one of the ZD985 stations. I am currently practicing on an old junk pcb to get the feel for desoldering without removing pads. It does seem to work well. I went with it because of the price and the fact the pump is not self contained like the Hakko 808, giving, at least to me, a perception of better suction. Mine was just fine out of the box. It does take a small amount of time to heat up like in Dave's video but I am never really in a hurry so that is a non issue for me. Dave's review of the functionality is what persuaded me to buy it. I guess we will see how it lasts long term. The other perk is that I get 25% off parts and consumables. As you state, there are no replacement parts for the base unit itself, only the heating element and gun assembly.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2014, 04:14:38 pm
content: Edsyn Soldapullt DS017, DS017LS, or AS196. About $20 (or less) and it is all you need if you know how to use it properly.At the PCB factory I worked at, we had Metcal desoldering stations throughout the factory, connected to shop-air. But we were also all issued a Soldapullt. The Metcal desoldering stations mostly collected dust, aside from a few people on first-shift that liked to use them.A typical desoldering job there was to remove 100 through-hole 4-legged terminal blocks from a board (400 solder joints total) due to someone soldering in the wrong terminal blocks and/or soldering them in backwards (which was inevitable; happened once or twice a week without fail), and you were expected to do it in a reasonable amount of time (15 or 20 minutes). With the Soldapullt you could desolder them all non-stop because it is self-cleaning. Powered desoldering guns/stations are not self-cleaning, and they have to routinely be emptied/cleared to keep them from clogging up. They were generally a pain compared to the Soldapullt, which is why few people bothered to use them.Edsyn Soldapullts are tough too ("Soldapullt" is a trademark by the way, I am not using the word in a generic sense to mean any random manual "solder sucker"; I am only talking about the models manufactured by Edsyn that I listed above); I used the same one for the whole 2 years I worked there, and it was already well-used when it was first issued to me.So, in comparison to a powered desoldering gun/station, a Soldapullt is far cheaper, far more maintenance-free, more portable, and every bit as effective (provided you know how to use one properly).

author: The_Penguin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 12:47:47 am
content: Agreed, the Soldapullt is a great tool. Mine is probably 30 years old. With a freshly cleaned and lubed o-ring it's a great tool. 1 hit on each lead of a capacitor, and it'll fall right out.But as I get older and lazy, I find that holding the device, soldering iron and soldapullt, lining it up, pushing the button only to find I haven't loaded it... bah, give me a HakkoWith a clean organized bench to work on, or back when I worked on big heavy devices, it wouldn't be an issue. Besides, who doesn't want more tools?

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 01:01:15 am
content: I also have used a Soldapullit brand sucker for years, it gets tiresome to cock it repeatedly, and often it spits solder flakes when not perfectly clean. A desoldering gun/station is not a total replacement, but it is a convenience. So the old blue sucker is kept in a handy spot along with a hot pencil iron just in case the electric sucker doesn't do the job.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 01:08:59 am
content: Especially for commercial use, stay away from that cheap crap.If cheap I give +1 for the Soldapullt.If you want a station my personal recommendation would be Weller, but thats an expensive tool.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 01:35:04 am
content: Quote from: Rory on January 03, 2014, 01:01:15 amYes, that's its self-cleaning action. For me they usually land on the table or floor rather than the PCB, because I use the Soldapullt with my left hand and cock it against the palm/heel of my right hand that's holding the iron (without changing my grip on the iron), which usually points its nozzle somewhere other than over the PCB. Usually the only time solder flakes get on the PCB (which are easily brushed off or sucked back up as soon as you hit the trigger again) is when there is a flake holding onto the nozzle that didn't fall when you cocked it.To me, the Soldapullt seems ideal for the OP based on his post, i.e., he's paying for it out of his own pocket so he wants to keep costs down, and he says that performance is important but he's most concerned with reliability. The Soldapullt is less than $20, works very well, and is made for high-volume production line use; it would last him pretty much forever.

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 03:35:01 am
content: Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 03, 2014, 01:35:04 amI cock the thing against my thigh, knee or somewhere away from the working surface... but I meant that there's a 'kick' when the plunger slams against the stop when the release button is pressed and it drops flakes after the vacuum pulse is over. This gets really annoying.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 08:32:56 am
content: Hi,then it's about time to clean it.Take the cap off and let all the loose stuff out. Then it should be OK

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 02:56:21 pm
content: I've used a Soldapullit for years. It works but it is a slow process and if you have a lot to do it will be an all day project along with an iron and solder wick. I bought a Hakko 808 finally last year. What a difference. Turn the thing on five minutes before you are going to use it and you can zip off components like crazy leaving the pads and holes clean. Last board I did, everything just dropped out. I removed about 20 caps in around two and a half minutes with no cleaning needed. If you are doing a repetitive job all day long go with one of the better stations. If you are desoldering a couple of times a day the Hakko 808 will work great and all the parts are available from many distributors.Only negative with the 808 is an easy fix. I'm the one who added a on/off switch to the cord so I don't have to keep plugging and unplugging it to turn it on/off.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 04:19:31 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on January 03, 2014, 02:56:21 pmNo, it is not a slow process, and you don't need any solder wick. If you need solder wick in combination with a Soldapullt to remove a through-hole component, then you've been doing it improperly for years. As I mentioned earlier:A typical desoldering job there was to remove 100 through-hole 4-legged terminal blocks from a board (400 solder joints total) due to someone soldering in the wrong terminal blocks and/or soldering them in backwards (which was inevitable; happened once or twice a week without fail), and you were expected to do it in a reasonable amount of time (15 or 20 minutes). With the Soldapullt you could desolder them all non-stop because it is self-cleaning. Powered desoldering guns/stations are not self-cleaning, and they have to routinely be emptied/cleared to keep them from clogging up. They were generally a pain compared to the Soldapullt, which is why few people bothered to use them.15 minutes to desolder 400 joints comes to 2.25 seconds per joint, and 20 minutes comes to 3 seconds per joint.And another poster on this thread said:"Agreed, the Soldapullt is a great tool. Mine is probably 30 years old. With a freshly cleaned and lubed o-ring it's a great tool. 1 hit on each lead of a capacitor, and it'll fall right out."Which is absolutely true, especially with typical through-hole electrolytic capacitors, when done right.QuoteSo it took you 3.75 seconds per joint to desolder those 20 capacitors, assuming they were 2-legged. That puts the speed in the same ballpark as a Soldapullt, but if you were desoldering 400 joints in a row, I suspect that you'd have to stop to clean it along the way, which would slow you down. This was the main reason that most people didn't bother with the Metcal desolding stations at work. When you have 1,000 boards you have to solder by the end of the night, and a board full of improperly soldered terminal blocks comes in from another department for you to completely desolder, you don't really have time to stop and smell the roses along the way.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 05:19:16 pm
content: From my experience the Soldapullit does not always leave the board clean and if you want the board clean after you will have to use wick or add solder and try again. As far as the 808 filling up, the 808 chamber is big enough where you could do many desoldering jobs before it needs emptying and it only takes a few of seconds. I have yet to have it clog on me. With a Soldapullit you still have to run an iron and hold the Soldapullit at the same time. As I stated, for production use a station might be better but for quick jobs and service I find the hand held 808 works fine. The main reason a desoldering tool clogs is it's not allowed to heat up enough. If you have the temp set correctly and allow it to heat up you should not have problems if it's a decent design.In the OP's case if he's using it for service and not production then he could use either but I find the 808 much quicker than fumbling around with an iron and a Soldapullit unless you only have one or two things to desolder and the iron is in one hand already.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on January 03, 2014, 05:19:16 pmIt does for me. What do you use for a soldering iron in conjunction with a Soldapullt? Also, what is your technique? The most common problem I encountered when training people to solder and desolder at work was that they were afraid of the "plastic" nozzle of the Soldapullt contacting the iron (they thought it would melt), so they would pull the iron away from the joint and try to quickly get the Soldapullt in there and pull the trigger, which is an exercise in futility.QuoteBig enough for 400 through-hole terminal block solder joints in a row? How about 800?QuoteI've never specifically used a Hakko 808, but the internet is full of reports of tip clogging; I believe they even come with a tool specifically for clearing such clogs, though I've read many accounts of people having to resort to power drilling. This is especially likely to happen when some non-solder debris gets sucked up, or accumulates over time. Non-solder debris doesn't affect a Soldapullt.And yes, you need to use two hands to desolder with a Soldapullt, just as you generally need to use two hands to solder in the first place, one to hold the iron and the other to hold the solder wire.QuoteWell, it is up to the OP of course; I'm just pointing out that he doesn't need to spend a lot of money to get an effective and reliable desoldering tool. If a Soldapullt is good enough for years of high-volume production line use, it will work for him.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:10:24 pm
content: I agree the Soldapullt does work but I think you would find the 808 works better than you expect if you had used one. I've used both. I've been soldering for years and had mil spec training and I'm well aware of the proper use of a Soldapullt and still use mine, just a heck of a lot less since I got the 808. I still use the Soldapullt for large items like tabs, posts or pins on large connectors or sockets, but usually don't have to do more that two or four at a time. That way I don't have to change to a large tip on the 808.I never counted how many desolderings I could do with the 808 but I know I've done over a hundred before thinking about emptying the chamber which again only takes a few seconds and does not require any tools. In fact, my 808 came with two chambers so you could just remove the full one and pop in the second one if you were in some kind of race and wanted to save five or ten seconds...My guess is (like your experience with trainees with a Soldapullt) the users that have problems with their 808 clogging are not following the correct procedure, don't wait for it to heat, or have the temp set too low, or are using the wrong size tip for the job. Hard to say but I've had no trouble with mine.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:41:28 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on January 03, 2014, 09:10:24 pmI've used Metcal desoldering stations connected to shop-air. I expect you're not going to get much better than that when it comes to such devices. Yes, they work, but you also have to keep them clean to keep them functioning (that applies to all of them; none of them are self-cleaning). I preferred using the Soldapullt, as did everyone else on my shift.QuoteBut you also said you have to use solder wick in conjunction with a Soldapullt, which suggests something is wrong. The only thing I ever used solder wick for was for cleaning surface mount pads of old solder after swiping the component off the board with my iron, and only because that was the procedure they wanted us to use in that particular case. It was easier to just leave the old solder there, tack the new component into it, touch it up with new solder and make a couple maneuvers with the iron at the same time, which would create proper joints as well as seat the new component down flush against the pads (that stunt applies to 2-contact components only).QuoteEither way, the OP should have a Soldapullt on hand regardless of whether he ends up buying a desoldering gun/station or not. If he learns to use it properly, he may find that he has no need of anything else, just as I had no need of anything else at work, and have no need of anything else here at home.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 09:54:32 am
content: I've never used solder-wick in combination with my Soldapullt (in fact I nearly never use wick).And I've never had trouble with my Weller WMD3 (or the Hakko 2024) during desoldering with clogged stuff. I've had to clean it, if I desoldered one or two components and there was some solder left in the Tip and it was "coocked" over the next time until I used it again. But thats more or less my fault to turn the compressor off to soon. And cleaning was a task of 10 seconds, so, well... I don't care. If I do stuff in series (desoldering 1001 Components) I've had no problems so far.I personally like the comfort of the WMD, especially because of the "angeled" iron compared to the Hakko or a Soldapullt.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 01:47:14 pm
content: The problem with Soldapullt, or any generic solder sucker, is that you often don't get a full cleaning on the first try. So, that means a re-heating of the joint, again, and again.I recently had to rework a few dozen chinese phenolic boards, and I can tell you, they don't take kind to rework at all. Pads start lifting, traces peel up. It's a mess. I've been eye-balling the 808, and I think it's worth the price.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 04:32:40 pm
content: I probably use solder wick more than others as I work on a lot of older vintage boards and equipment with connectors, sockets, and larger components that had questionable soldering at the time of manufacturer. I usually clean up packed traces and blobs with the wick the Soldapullt leaves behind. Wick's not usually needed on newer boards.

author: Redcat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 12:33:52 am
content: I would give the ZD a chance.Look at their webpage, they habe a lot more models, perhaps there is one which fits your needs even better. You can get them for a really good price.I have a ZD 915 which I bought some months ago. It still waits for the first usehad no need to use it (but will soon), but I think it was a good buy, based on Daves review of the 985 which is similar.We have also a rebranded ZD soldering Station at work, which is also really nice for the price. And you can get parts really cheap (as the soldering/desoldering handpiece).Of course the 985 and 915 are only for throughole components, so you might want to buy some desolder tweezers, a hot air handpiece or special sqare IC desoldering tips for your soldering iron additionally for smd parts. Of course you will have to keep your desoldering station clean, whatever model you buy, so that it lasts longer.If you have the money you could of course go for a nice pace solder/desolder station(I like the straight desoldering handpiece more than these pistol like handpieces).My first better desoldering tool (not to mention solder wick and the manual desolder sucker) was a heated manual solder sucker. Really cheap, but did the job well on larger solder joints/single sided pcb. On industrial soldered pcbs with finer joints or double layer it had too low suckpower. What I want to say is, you can do desoldering ok even with the cheaper tools.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 03:54:49 am
content: Go with the Hakko 808. Mines working fine after 2 or 3 years of intermittent use. Just be sure to let it heat up fully & clean it regularly.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 06:17:54 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 02, 2014, 02:57:58 amWhere'd you get one here in the States?

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 07:50:00 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on January 10, 2014, 06:17:54 amTry this link:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131036604061.They offer 25% discount on consumables and spare parts with purchase. I have used it a few times now and I like it. It is not a Hakko but it works for me.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 07:51:39 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 10, 2014, 07:50:00 pmPage not found.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 08:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 10, 2014, 07:51:39 pmRemove the period at the end of his link:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131036604061

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 08:41:20 pm
content: Quote from: Rory on January 03, 2014, 03:35:01 amWhen I used one at the repair shop, I put the trash can next to my chair, so when I pressed the plunger against my leg, the solder bits fell into it. At one time, I could desolder a 100+ pin IC as quickly as using the suction desoldering iron, especially when the tip would fit over more than 1 pin.I eventually used a tool called the "solder gobbler," which connected to shop air. It was small and light, and easier to keep clean. You do see these on e-bay. Unfortunately, it's a crap, mains plug iron, so I had to be careful. Any temperature control was manual, via autotransformer. Still, it worked well.Many have mentioned the Hakko 808. I prefer the 472, with the separate "station" housing the pump. The hand piece is lighter because I don't have to lift the pump as well as the iron. For production work, that may make a difference. Also, the pump is larger and may be more reliable.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 09:06:07 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 10, 2014, 07:50:00 pmYa, that's the only thing I could come up with as well, memotronics.Trigger = pulled.Time to play the equipment roulette wheel and see what happens.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 09:57:39 pm
content: Any input on the Aoyue 701A++. $175, and has a extra iron as well.

author: kikook
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 09:22:33 am
content: Hi !I have it since one year.Good product for the price.Accesories are cheap but quality is not here.At first I was using Aoyue Tips and filters : not good, and changing very often (important use)But with hakko accesories, it's just perfectI use HAkko Filter ceramic (A1033 and A1009),Tips (per exemple T18-D08).Even Spring Filter is okay (A1030)The problem is with desoldering Nozzle.You can use Hakko Nozzle (like A1007) only if you can separe an "original" Aoyue nozzle from his tube (or find an Aoyue "tube", don't think it's possible) to mount on a Hakko Nozzle .I have a chance that one of the Aoyue Nozzle was not mount on the tube at delivery.Thierry.