Great idea from Louis Rossmann! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:39:47 pm
content: I like his idea! I guess many do too here.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:24:39 am
content: It just goes to show how backwards and antiquated the consumer protection is in the US. IMHO Louis should start a consumer rights organisation like they already exist in Europe.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 12:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 07, 2025, 11:24:39 amI dont really feel, that this is really working in Europe. Id rather like the idea that i could pick companies/products on such a data.For example:I had a Server at Contabo, but these bast***s restricted the traffic to 20% of what should have been possible. Took a loot of time and tests to actually find that out. I made a review at trustpilot.com for this, but the review was deleted (of course in a professional way).I dont think i could be able to get that review online. And if, it would probably take a bit of time and effort. But i would rather spend this on Louis idea.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:55:05 pm
content: I don't think there's really any equivalent of a class action in the EU, so claiming that we have it better may be a bit exaggerated. Consumer rights organizations? Yeah, that's cute.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 12:38:51 am
content: Just a meta question here (about L. Rossman):Does this guy exist on another time-plane where time goes twice as slow as ours?When i first watched one of his videos I thought he might be a speed freak or a caffeine junkie, but it's pretty clear that he's well-centered and lucid. So his clock rate must just be running a lot faster than most folks'.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 07:35:53 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 07, 2025, 11:55:05 pmThere is (at least in Germany). It is called "Verbandsklage" (translates maybe to "group action"); happens I just joined one this week.https://www.verbraucherzentrale-sachsen.de/faq/vertraege-reklamation/amazon-sammelklage-faq-und-ausfuellhilfe-95864Right now, about 100000 people have signed up.However, this only covers "actual damages" and no penalty payments will be done (that's different from the US class action).

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 07:54:59 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 08, 2025, 07:35:53 amAnd what is their legal power (in court) ?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 08:07:03 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 08, 2025, 07:35:53 amI'll be curious to see what happens, if you can keep us posted.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 11:43:27 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 07, 2025, 11:55:05 pmIn the Netherlands you can start class action lawsuits and there is some movement into that direction at the EU level as well. In addition the EU has quite strong consumer laws. Many big US companies have been fined for bad behaviour (like short warranty periods). Apple just caved in to allow third party apps to be installed in order to break Apple's monopoly on who can sell apps to run on Apple phones.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 10:39:28 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on February 08, 2025, 07:54:59 amTheir "legal power" is: They are allowed to file this kind of proceedings (i.e. filing on the behalf of multiple people). Usually a lawsuit is only allowed to happen between two parties (legal party) in Germany.Usually these customer protection associations are no-nonsense people - they know what they are doing and I'd say they almost always win their cases.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 12:10:24 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 09, 2025, 10:39:28 amAs a certified court expert I tend to disagree.It’s about laws, not about who files a complaint.Any civilian can file a complaint.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 02:08:44 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on February 09, 2025, 12:10:24 pmAs a certified court expert you should know that customer protection associations typically start a few test cases to see which line of reasoning has the most chance and once there is clarity about how the laws are to be interpreted, they file a mass claim. In the end the customer protection associations tend to arrange settlements and/or win court cases once they arrive at the mass claim stage. But it takes a long time; easely more than 10 years. There is no way to finance such a drawn out case as a single person.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 02:32:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 09, 2025, 02:08:44 pmMy point is that you don’t need a ‘third’ party for this, nor do they have any legal advantage over regular lawyers.Class actions are a thing on their own; they are not there for you but for themselves or the so called associations.A regular law firm can represent several complaints and you better make the right complaint the very first time because you cannot prosecute them for the same reason if there is a former court decision.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2025, 12:17:43 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on February 09, 2025, 02:32:57 pmYour point might be true in a world where lawyers work for free and all are at the top of their game. But the reality is that filing a lawsuit and hiring a good lawyer who has the specific knowledge to deal with your case is eyewateringly expensive. It it insane to go after a claim for a couple of thousand euro as an individual. You can easely end up paying 10 times more. That is why teaming up to file a mass claim is a very good idea. Sure, it may cost you 10% to 20% of the money you are entitled to, but the price is still a bargain. And through force by numbers, the deal is typically better than you might have gotten from a single lawsuit so the actual costs of 'outsourcing' are less than the 10% to 20%. Over the years these mass claims have helped me recoup thousands of euros from banks and insurance companies and it cost me very little money and effort. Bottom line is: you do need a third party to organise getting multiple claims bundled and hire the best lawyers as some of these cases are very complicated; the third party has the means and money to attract the best lawyers to the case and certainly do have a legal advantage.For example: One of the ongoing mass claims in the Netherlands is about investments savings products combined with insurances. It takes highly skilled insurance experts to understand & explain why these products are bad. About 100 billion euro in premiums has been collected on these products and a lot of that needs to be refunded. There is no way the lawyer around the corner is even remotely capable of dealing with a case like this if your are going to file a lawsuit as an individual. Cases like these need specialist lawyers who charge way north of 500 euro per hour.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2025, 07:09:35 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 10, 2025, 12:17:43 amIndeed!This is why i like Louis approach. That way, companys will get a hit, where it really hurts: Their revenue.But people also have to be willing to stop beeing buying sheeps, and save their money. Spending money on some good food is favourable!