Seek Compact clicking and freezing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 08:14:52 am
content: Hi, so I'm new to thermal imaging cameras and I just bought a Seek Compact thermal camera for my Android phone. The quality seems pretty good for the price, but one huge negative I noticed right away is the frequent audible clicking and freezing of the image for about a second. From what I've read, this is from the camera recalibrating and the shutter having to refocus every few seconds. My question is, is this really normal for a lot of thermal cameras? It's not a huge deal for still images, but for video documentation, it doesn't seem to be that good. If it was like say once or twice a minute, it would be fine, but every few seconds is pretty annoying. Is there any way to change this?To make recorded video smoother I might see if I can find a way to blend or mix the frames between the jumps in the captured videos, using some kind of video editor, software, or plugin. Anyone have any ideas for this? Thanks in advance!

author: svgurus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 08:51:08 am
content: Seek is notorious for constant clicking) other cams(not flir one, please) are better in most aspects. hti 301 clicks once in 40-60 secs, i used it in manual calibration mode with thermviewer, there it dont click until you ask for it.

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 10:02:53 am
content: Thanks for the quick reply, yeah I might just return it. The hti looks to be a lot better. The hti 301 is a bit out of my price range though, the 201 I could probably swing and it seems to have great resolution too.

author: svgurus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 12:40:33 pm
content: 201 is close to seek pro, i have seek compact pro and see no reason to buy 201, plus it doesn't have focus adjustment) 301 is really better if you need smartphone dongle. Infiray xtherm t3s is based on same sensor and lens, this spring iray was selling it for 600$ i thought that discount would last forever)) if you dont need smartphone connection and photos, only analog video there are some other variants from automotive cams or old hunting monoculars, they also need re-building and more adjustments

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 07:46:14 pm
content: I only got the Compact, the Pro is about $200 more on Amazon, where as the 201 is only $100 more. I can do $100 more , but not $200 or especially the $400 more for the 301. The resolution Is good, I just didn't want to have to deal with the recalibration every other second.

author: svgurus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 08:16:52 pm
content: Well, I'd wait for 301/t3s discounts or look for used ones) there are also therm-app and thermal expert q1 dongles with decent 384 sensors, maybe you will find them used for good price) someone sells TE-Q1 for less than 600$ in Moscow, 2nd month alreadyseek is real no-go, even pro one, their resolution means nothing with this amount of noise. I found seek compact pro and 301 in my pile of stuff, see for yourself in attachments. I dont think 201 is much better, there is neighboring thread here with photos from ht-19 hti imager with qvga resolution, Fraser says there it uses seek core, and i read numerous comments saying 201 can be used with seek app, so expect to see seek's noise in 201 too

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 09:29:53 pm
content: Does it slow down after a while ?Generally (not familiar enough with Seeks) a calibration happens when a temperature (lens, sensor, shutter) changes by a degree or two so is a lot more at switch on until things stabilise, or is fixed times based on the same logicHappens even on a well designed professional full build camera. So on the cameras I was involved with it stasrted with a few 6 seconds apart, then a few more at 12 or 20 seconds apart and finally every 60 seconds for ever or if the temperature / scene* changed.Sensor stabilised ones could cope with only every 300 seconds OK, and of course on a bench in an aircon lab you could leave them for hours.* - because they were multi-gain mode firefighting cameras.

author: edubz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 12:40:23 am
content: Quote from: Ian31R on September 07, 2021, 10:02:53 amI had a seek and they are garbage return it, you can find AGM thermals for like $300 on ebay, the AGM 160 has a lower NETD and faster refresh rate then any usb based device.I would go with the AGM 160 for $300 then pay $400 for a seek

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 08:18:02 am
content: Quote from: Bill W on September 07, 2021, 09:29:53 pmNo, on startup it clicks a few times rapidly, then it's a constant clicking every few seconds, even after a couple minutes. If it did slow down I wouldn't mind, but from what I've tested it didn't show any signs of doing that. I thought about getting a dedicated camera but I couldn't find much that was under $500, which let you record video. Also I didn't want to have to have the camera tethered or connected to my phone and have to use a screen capture or recording app.Really since this is my first thermal camera and I'm not using it for scientific purposes I don't need it to be top of the line or super accurate. As long as it works, isn't too expensive, doesn't visually look like total garbage, and doesn't freeze every second I'm happy. I'm actually just using it to make ghost hunting documentaries for YouTube (please no debates on ghosts) so the bar isn't that high.In the end, I returned the seek and went with the 201. Amazon is really good with returns, so If I hate it then I'll return it too, and then yeah wait for the 301 or find another solution.

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2021, 08:16:55 pm
content: Man I just can't catch a break, so I just received the 201 today and I am happy with the quality, and the clicking and freezing seems to be better, but now the main problem is it only works one way while plugged into my phone (Samsung Note9) which is in the front (selfie) direction. Do I have to get some kind of 180° adapter to reverse the direction? I thought USB-C was reverse-able, anyone have any ideas?

author: downtodo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2021, 06:39:56 am
content: It means 201 cut corners, TYPE-C only has one side.You can purchase a TYPE-C extension cord to use.

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2021, 05:58:17 pm
content: Yeah thanks I did buy a short extension cable so I can have the camera mounted anywhere, I also got that short extension adapter meant for thick phone cases so I don't need to hold the camera or have it mounted to my phone somehow -https://amzn.to/3hqZvh4What's weird is I did have a flat 90 degree adapter, and no matter how I oriented the adapter or the camera, it only worked pointed in the selfie direction, so the extension adapter might not work either. That's why I also got a 180 degree adapter too which will hopefully flip it around -https://amzn.to/3lhYo4jJust seems odd that I have to figure out a solution to this, I thought USB-C worked both ways, or is that just for charging and not data? I wouldn't care if it worked pointed the normal way, but why'd it have to be the selfie direction? Who'd use that with a thermal camera lol

author: Ian31R
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2021, 08:54:59 pm
content: Ok so I got the adapters and they both seem to work. The straight adapter works with the logo facing up and the 180° adapter works but I had use an app (Rotation Control for Android) to flip the screen upside down. If anyone has this same problem I'd recommend either of these adapters. Also thanks to everyone for their advice.

author: downtodo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2021, 12:20:17 pm
content: In the process of using the thermal imager, you will definitely find that when the thermal image is taken, sometimes it will freeze and the thermal imager will make a clicking sound. There is no need to panic at this time. It is performing non-uniformity correction (NUC). ),Why is this so?Non-uniformity correction (NUC) is to adjust for small detector drift that occurs when the scene and environment change. Under normal circumstances, the thermal imager's own heat will interfere with its temperature readings. In order to improve accuracy, the thermal imager will measure the infrared radiation of its own optics, and then adjust the image based on these readings. NUC adjusts the gain and offset for each pixel to generate higher quality and more accurate images.During the NUC process, the thermal imager shutter falls between the optics and the detector, making a clicking sound, instantly freezing the image stream. The shutter serves as a plane reference source for the detector to calibrate itself and thermally stabilize.This situation often occurs in uncooled thermal imaging cameras, but it also occasionally occurs in cooled thermal imaging cameras. It is also called FFC (Flat Field Correction).When will the thermal imager execute NUC?At the initial startup, the thermal imager will frequently execute NUC. As the thermal imager heats up and reaches a stable operating temperature, NUC will become less frequent. Although you can get the thermal image in about 20 seconds after turning on the camera, most thermal imagers require at least 20 minutes of warm-up time, in a stable environment, with the best temperature measurement accuracy.The thermal imager will automatically perform a NUC, but you can also manually use the NUC function before measuring temperature or taking key images. This will help ensure the best accuracy.How to precisely control the occurrence of NUC?As mentioned above, NUC is very important for improving temperature readings. Without NUC, you may get unstable temperature readings. NUC cannot be disabled on most handheld thermal imaging cameras, but on most automation and scientific equipment, NUC can be set from automatic mode to manual mode. This will allow you to precisely control the time for the thermal imager to execute NUC through software or hardware signals.The key to implementing NUCTake the manual control of the non-uniformity correction (NUC) in FLIR A35 and A65 as an example. Two factors are considered during execution:1. When the thermal imager executes NUC, all other commands are forbiddenThis is because the NUC needs to use the raw video output from the sensor to calculate the per-pixel offset correction. In order to calculate the offset correctly, all commands must be blocked during its operation, otherwise the calculation may be affected and the NUC lookup table can be loaded correctly.2. How to control the length of NUCIn the high-gain operating mode, when the thermal imager’s core is heated or cooled to approximately 0°C, 40°C, or 65°C, “long NUC operation is required. For example, if the core power is energized at -10°C and then heated to +10°C, long NUC is required. "Long NUC" (~0.5 s) operation is approximately 0.1 s longer than normal "Short NUC" (~0.4 s) operation, and allows the core to automatically load a calibration suitable for the current operating temperature range In addition, when switching between high-gain and low-gain modes, a long NUC must be executed to load the gain switch to complete the new calibration required.The host system does not need to monitor the above conditions, because the core has a set of NUC signs that will identify when a long or short NUC is needed, unless the thermal imager is in manual NUC mode. In the latter case, a NUC command will be sent as described above .

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2021, 01:11:30 pm
content: In case it's of any interest, here is a thermal view of a thermal sensor operating. There is avery slightchange in temperature as each line is scanned by the read-out IC (ROIC) that's physically beneath the thermally sensitive array.It's slowed down here; in reality the scan happens at the camera frame rate (typically 7.5, 8.3, 25, 30 or even 60 times a second).(Reposted fromhere)