JLCPCB opinions and more - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 02:47:36 am
content: Hey there mates!I do not really know where this thread belongs, cause it a bit of a mishmash of a lot of stuff so I put it here.I guess it is electronics related as much as it can be.The Shipping ball:From what it seems (and I have created an account for that reason) first order free shipping does not work right now.I saw it also in a lot of youtube comments from people advertising JLCPCB. I do not know if anything else applies that I have not seen, but I´ll keep that one open for now.The Paneling ball:I do not know if that applied to manually paneled PCBs but if you select their panel service they do charge extra.My PCB is 38mm x 18mm, so there is plenty of space for 10 PCBs per 100mm x 100mm boards, even with their 5mm edge rails.Still with this option they seem to charge a bit shy of 12€ compared to 2€ "advertised" by the many Youtubers promoting their service.The odd ball:So with the panel 100 PCBs would cost around 12€. If I upload my board and ask for 100 pieces it costs 10€ but with 3 days of extra work.And seriously though, if you don´t mind waiting these extra 3 days, you get fully routed boards for less!It´s not that V-score is that a pain in the a$$ to clean, for 100 PCBs well it might be, but if you don´t mind the extra time then well...Still for someone choosing the cheapest air-mail wouldn´t really mind.The renegade ball:Note that I am using Eagle v7.1.0 none of these online rubbish (well not until they offer major performance improvements)Well, I have not tested it, still I have heard rumors and also checked with JLCPCB gerber viewer and it seems that they have absolutely no problemaccepting gerber files created by the SeeedStudio cam job!I have not ordered the boards yet, but their gerber viewer is not complaining at all whatsoever!This is something I really need to know to tell you the truth as I don´t what to break my head trying to export the milling layer correctly, which seems to worktotally perfect with the SeeedStudio cam job!So what do you think about all this? What have your dealings been with JLCPCB if any?I have ordered from SeeedStudio before but JLCPCB seems a bit more lucrative for my current design!Cheers, Lefteris

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 03:02:36 am
content: Ok ok so I do see a difference and paneling is indeed cheaper when it comes to testing. So the odd ball is out of the window there.100 PCBs and for 10€ you get a random flying probe test. So hmm no... For a full test you need to pay 24€.So that´s a catch for young players right there. And especially when you play close enough to the tolerances that´s really a no go.Still 3 balls remaining there!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 03:20:57 am
content: I put my first order with them 4 days ago and it had free shipping.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 05:06:37 am
content: I seem to recall a bit of buzz about them on this forum, I want to say 4-5 months back. I'm surprised at the lack of responses, because I got the idea they had a big market share and a lot of customers, here.I ordered the other day, myself. The free shipping worked for me. $0.00 for DHL shipping, normally $20.QuoteIt's been awhile since I used SeeedStudio. As I recall, they curiously specify one set of extensions for their rigid board prototype service and another (the more widely known and old as hell extensions with "sol" and whatnot) for their flex pcb service. They're both common enough. If you are going to go through the trouble to do the in-page Gerber view that JLC has on their page, it should be a no-brainer to include every set of extensions known to man.

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 02:18:49 pm
content: So that´s another bad one for me. Free shipping does not appear in the quotation page but in the check out page.So the shipping ball is come bad. Another two to go though!

author: mvs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 02:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: TrickyNekro on January 10, 2019, 02:47:36 amThey do not charge for V-scoring if the panel size is exactly 100x100 mm.

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 04:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: mvs on January 10, 2019, 02:49:07 pmShould it be exactly 100x100mm? And I guess that panelization should be done by me then.If so, should I dictate V-scoring by the same name layer in Eagle? Do you have any more details on this?Cause my boards are 38mm x 18mm, I can fit 10 of them easily in a 100mm x 100mm panel. Even with the inclusion of two 5mm edge rails.I would be very happy to see an example if possible.Cheers, Lefteris

author: mvs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 08:57:01 pm
content: Quote from: TrickyNekro on January 10, 2019, 04:13:32 pmYes, if you do not want to pay extra fees, panel should be exactly 100x100. It is a bit strange, but perhaps they need to make custom holder otherwise.V-scoring lines should be on the board outline layer (*.GKO).I do not work with Eagle, so i can not help you further.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2019, 09:33:23 pm
content: I've used them for both proto, small batch and medium batch - 2 layer boards.So far, good quality and very fast delivery. Typically I order Mon or Tues and receive boards DHL by Friday (west coast of the US). That is impressive service!That's about US$20 for the protos, about US$32 for small batch (10 pieces with 3 boards on a panel with 'jlpcb' panelization which is v-scored) and medium batch was a routed (round boards with mouse bites done by them with my requested 5 x 2 panel size) and 250 pieces (25 panels) for US$68 (this also white soldermask so a few extra $ for different colour) and each panel was about 165mm x 75mm. Above prices are totals including DHL delivery.For cost & speed I'm not going to worry about a few $ here or there in terms of if they panelize or I waste my time doing it.Smallest geometry I run with is 12mil holes, 24 mil pads (for vias) and 6mil clearance rules. Not had any issues/problems. Soldermask registration is very good. Most of the components are SMT with reasonably fine pitched devices.I use PADS and just generate the requested files with their recommended file extensions and the gerbers are imported without any issues. I use a free gerber viewer to sanity check the files prior to zipping and uploading onto their website. I then do a final quick look using their online gerber viewer prior to kicking off a run.When I have done the $2 proto with them, the board does not need to be 100mm x 100mm, but it does need to be more than a minimum size - so just add a bit of 'padding' space if necessary to reach that minimum. Or pay the extra $10 and let them panelize and make a bunch more boards per panel for you (if more can fit on 100mmx100mm), e.g. for $10 more I received 30 boards versus 10...I guess it all comes down to $1 level penny pinchingcheers,george.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 12:26:20 am
content: I've used them mainly for five different 4 layer boards, with no complaints or problems whatsoever. I've also ordered a bunch of small 2 layer adapter and breakout boards from them, basically because they were $2 for ten when added to a main board order. I suspect the 4L is different from the 2L, but 1) the silkscreen doesn't look dot matrixed to my eye and is pretty good without bleed or fading, YMMV; 2) the solder mask and via holes are very well aligned, 3) they can do very fine silkscreen print. They add an identifier to 2L PCBs, but not to 4L. Don't know about their 6L service (don't see much use without also going to blind and buried vias). I've done no paneling or fancy slot milling or anything like that - just milled-out clean boards, please, and they've done a good job. Their 4L pricing is very competitive and the specs fine for me (4L w/s is 3.5/3.5!!!). Overall given the good alignment and silkscreen the PCBs don't look at all like the usual cheap prototypey stuff. My impression is they do a good job in general, so as long as an order is within spec I'd expect them to deliver quality working boards.

author: blazini36
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 01:45:04 am
content: I use them several times for prototyping boards in quantities of 10. Once I shrunk my boards down to 100mm x 75mm I realized it got super cheap. Shipping is like $18 but It still beats out anything else when the whole thing is $27 and I get them in 3 days. I wanted to try Oshpark because I like to support American companies whenever possible, but I couldn't figure out why the hell the same gerber file cost like $300 and shipping was something like 12 days. I'm not a pro and I tend to make mistakes on boards but I don't have time to breadboard everything so a quick inexpensive PCB that I can slap some solder paste on and cook is what I need. Now that I know my last prototype is a winner I think I'm going to see if I can get a reasonable price out of Oshpark since I can afford to wait, it's still a low volume board. I don't bother with V-cuts or paneling or anything.I will say that JLCPCB has always sent very high quality boards very fast. Every mistake on a board I've had was my own, so I have zero complaints about them. I also use AllPCB for single sided aluminum boards because JLC doesn't seem to do them. I haven't had any problems with them at all either except they don't seem to be as convenient, and their site doesn't have a built in gerber viewer. They are also very fast.Edit: nevermind Oshpark, 3 PCBs for $54 when I just paid $27 for 10. And that was an extra $8 for blue PCBs.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:21:24 am
content: I've used them a few times for their edge card service where they chamfer the edges for you. (Which Seeed don't offer AFAIK)One lot came missing the chamfer, but they refunded and the next lot that came were perfect.Gold plating seems fine and the silkscreen and copper layer quality have no issues so far either.

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 01:31:35 pm
content: I have contacted their support by e-mail for help with my gerbers and truly enough I am amazed.Granted I did it within their working hours but they replied to be within the hour.They told me that my gerber designs seem ok.Quote from: mvs on January 10, 2019, 08:57:01 pmYou were right about that I added V-score (for eagle it´s layer 102) and exported only the V-score in a GKO line along with comments on the same layer.7Seems that they did not have any trouble handling that.About the renegade ball:Yes SeeedStudio CAM job works. I have only added the V-scoring layer and some more silkscreen options, but apart from that they were quite happy with it.And yes, from what it seems so far, cause I have not concluded with my order, if you do the panel yourself, you only get to pay 2$ for 10 boards/panels.I have watched one of Dave´s older videos and decided to make my boards according to his suggestions, that also fit my purpose.For reasons of completion I include a photo of the panel. It´s for my OSH project posted here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/oshw/openservocan-(-for-hobby-standard-size-servos)/

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 01:55:12 pm
content: Quote from: mvs on January 10, 2019, 02:49:07 pmDoes that mean V-score along the outlines of the 100x100 mm area?Or does that mean V-score INSIDE the 100x100 mm area?Does that mean ONE V-score or several?

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 01:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 11, 2019, 01:55:12 pmI am still in contact with their support, I´ve sent a second e-mail to clarify some other things and I have not yet concluded the order.Although in their email they said and I quote: "We can make V-cuts, plated slots and milling.But we cannot make rectangle plated slots."I really think this whole situation begs for a proper tutorial. Let me finish first my dealing with them and I will write everything in detail thereafter.Edit: I do doubt that they do V-score selectively inside the PCB. V-scoring is done by cutting wheels not a CNC.

author: pix3l
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 03:10:51 pm
content: By the way here's a nice factory tour if you haven't already seen it:https://youtu.be/ljOoGyCso8sV-scoring room is at 22:00Also, have you thought of using just normal milling + mouse bites?

author: mvs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 04:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 11, 2019, 01:55:12 pmPCB fab will mill outlines of 100x100mm area (lets call it panel), V-score lines are inside.V-score cut wheel can not stop in the middle of a panel, so the cut must go throught whole panel from one edge to another edge.They will do multiple V-score cuts in both directions if needed. I have no idea if they do also cuts with arbitrary angle to outline.I ordered yesterday a batch of 25x30mm boards (isolated USB-UART bridge) with 5mm rails and got it approved today.Panel size is 4*25=100, 3*30+2*5=100.Actually it is just to test this service. I do not need so many boards.

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 04:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: pix3l on January 11, 2019, 03:10:51 pmYou can´t believe what small of a place internet is sometimesQuote from: mvs on January 11, 2019, 04:03:28 pmI doubt they would do more than perpendicular. Most odd shapes then require milling and/or combination of milling and V-cuts, but V-cuts should be perpendicular to the board / panel edges.

author: mvs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:24:20 pm
content: Quote from: TrickyNekro on January 11, 2019, 01:59:31 pmInner corners can not be perfectly rectangle, because milling cutter has some radius/diameter. But why on earth they are talking about plated slots?Do they think, that outlines of your boards need to be plated? This might be the case, since the milling lines (light blue) go to copper on rails and there is no proper clearance between copper and slot (see attachment).

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:56:19 pm
content: Quote from: mvs on January 11, 2019, 05:24:20 pmYes, I started also thinking weird things, that´s why I contacted them with a second e-mail, still waiting for an answer though (it was one hour before their closing time to be fair).I told them that I kept the dimension layer of each individual board to handle the copper pour pull back, but where they have to V-cut and mill I have already designated in the respective layers.I proceeded with the order never the less. BTW in the first email they sent me a picture of the gerber files as they see them. And from that point it was kinda reassuring.And if for whatever reason they plate the edge rails where they are cut, that´s not really a concern for me. I just did not want to be an a$$ with their etchant.I´ll include the photo they sent me below.

author: mvs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:51:39 pm
content: Quote from: TrickyNekro on January 11, 2019, 05:56:19 pmIf they plate, they will plate all edges of milled slot.

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 09:43:20 pm
content: Quote from: mvs on January 11, 2019, 06:51:39 pmI do not know exactly how they operate but no, not necessarily. Usually if there is copper on top and bottom of the milling operation then they plate. If not, then not.JLCPCB are no Eurocircuits but the later stated that they do it that way. Would guess that´s the norm, maybe?

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 01:03:00 am
content: The copper on the panel tab needs edge clearance. This is probably what's confusing them - their system probably alerts when it sees a V groove cut across copper, or too close to it, as I bet this is typically indicative of a problem.

author: battlecoder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 02:50:22 am
content: I made my first order with them by the end of October last year. I designed my boards in KiCad and their gerber viewer seemed to have no problems with my design.Didn't get free shipping (didn't even know that was a thing) and chose the cheapest option they had for my country (~ $10 USD). The order total was of course, around $12.Boards arrived almost an exact month later, by the last days of November, so I can't really complain. That is quite fast for my choice of "cheapping", especially to my country, where the post office takes their sweet time with everything they handle.$12 USD for 10 professionally manufactured PCBs right at my doorstep in 1 month time seems like a really good deal to me.Quality-wise I was (and still am) pleasantly surprised. I've attached a picture of the boards I got, still wrapped in their generously provided rubber band. They didn't have any problem handling the "intricacies" of my design (like the rounded corners of the board). The only "quality" issue I see, is that the green paint kinda fades near the edge of the board (visible where I had some traced text at the bottom).Overall I'm quite happy with the result and will probably order from them again for any project where building more than 1 unit is desirable ($12 is cheap, and 1 month is not a long time, but still a waste of both resources (money and time) if I only need 1 single-layer board for a one-shot circuit).

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 01:55:04 pm
content: OwO UwU OwO

author: battlecoder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 05:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on January 12, 2019, 01:55:04 pmWell, someone clearly got the gist of my design.

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 11:26:25 am
content: So I do have an update,I asked them for photos of what they have done and came through!I got to say though, for the price of their product they are quite helpful,yes they are probably hoping on bigger orders and such but from their customer supportI am quite happy. Though you have to keep in mind that there is a language barrier,it´s quite subtle, but it leaves you wandering sometimes a little bit, if they understood right or not.But even with that, they reply fast to e-mails, so you could always ask for further clarification, I guess...I will include the photo that they send me, and when I get them I will do some macros and comparisons / overlay with the eagle file to inspect tolerances.Cheers!

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:46:16 am
content: I will reply as I have promised with the comparison.I have a compact "dslr-y" camera so, I couldn´t get much better with the perspective error.So dimensions are not near accurate but the comparison is made for showing how the detailscame out.Mind you these are 2 boards out of 100. But from what I saw only the SOT-723-3 devices werejust a little bit chopped at the corners.So for the price, I am really happy, but I have not gotten near their minimum specifications.For example min width and distance between traces was 6mil... Mine minimum were at 10mil.Hope it all help!Cheers

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 05:18:38 am
content: Am I seeing SMD pads covered with solder mask?

author: TrickyNekro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 05:59:57 am
content: Quote from: bson on January 28, 2019, 05:18:38 amHmmm? No? Just the top and bottom copper and silk screen overlaid to a photo of the actual boards.And cause I have a perspective error with the camera, what you can only make out is how well, or not, the etching went.Edit: Ha! Of course I have not thought about it, problem with camera is easy to solve! Just use a scanner! That might take a day or two...

author: ZayneTech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 06:17:30 am
content: They sponsored me for a YouTube video and their service was great. FAST shipping