need a decision support for an oscilloscope (DSO)  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 01:00:33 pm
content: Hello,I need a decision support from you for the purchase of an oscilloscope (DSO) for my hobby.My favorite is the RTB2000 from Rohde & Schwarz, there is currently a promotion "all in" again, but 3900€ is too much for me.2500€ is my limit.I've read some things here on eevblog, but I'm not getting anywhere.What I would like to see is a big display ( at least 8’’) and a good representation of decoded serial busses,I think that's what makes the RTB2000 really good.A colleague of mine has a Signent SDS 1202 X, but the display of the serial busses is too unreadable for me.In terms of bandwidth 100MHz would be enough for me, MSO is a "nice to have".An internal arbitary generator with sweep function would be an advantage.Reliability (repairs) and measuring accuracy would be important to me.I have looked at Siglent, Rigol, GW InstekThanks in advance for all suggestions.Best regards,Frank

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 01:04:49 pm
content: Having an RTB, I regret not going for an RTM. If you have some form of university association (or can BS your way into one), you can get another 20% off the RTB I bet, which might push it closer to your target.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 01:43:42 pm
content: Does Rohde and Schwarz offer a 20% discount ?

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 02:16:56 pm
content: Let me find my invoice...Datatec gave me a 30% educational discount off the RTB2K-COM4, from 5.5k (before the promotion was back) to 3.85k. I needed to supply documentation I'm in university (which was basically just a short document saying I'm enrolled in a degree) and that's it basically. I believe the discount is given by R&S, but I'm not sure how it works if you don't go through a reseller.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 03:07:02 pm
content: Yes, I also read about the 30% discount at datatec.It's a good idea, Kane.I've been out of the university for 20 years, where should I get such a document ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 03:30:43 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 08, 2020, 01:00:33 pmOld, real old model ^.Have you looked at Siglent's newish SDS2000X Plus series ? Specifically SDS2104X Plus ?https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000xp/Quote3 ticks to meeting all of these^Thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/

author: GabeG
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 03:32:32 pm
content: I'm also shopping in that price range, and I'm in the same place with the RTB2K. If you're game for refurbished by the manufacturer, you might check out used Keysight MSOX2000-series. They meet your screen size and price requirements; Keysight currently has an MSOX2024A listed on eBay with all the serial protocols unlocked for $2.5k.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:00:11 pm
content: Enroll at university for a Zweitstudium or something like that. Not sure exactly how that process works.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:11:43 pm
content: I recently purchased the Siglent SDS2102X Plus (wanted the 2104X+ but it was BO). This is my 1st DSO, I have a couple old Tek 2465, and a little reluctant on going with Siglent or Rigol since I had never even heard of themDuring my career (advanced electronics research) I've always used and preferred Tek scopes, and HP/Agilent/KS for everything else, so you might appreciate my concern. Long story short is I couldn't be happier (except need 2 more channels) with the Siglent SDS2102X Plus, it has exceeded my expectations in every aspect of it's capability, use and constructionCaution, you never "Save" $ on equipment, the $ you have allocated will always be spent on more equipment, regards of the "apparent" savings on a particular pieceBest,

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:41:33 pm
content: Many oscilloscopes support plugging a larger monitor into them. So if the bigger screen is in support of visibility, an external monitor could open up the choices for oscilloscope.I have a 20" monitor suspended over my bench for these kinds of purposes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 08, 2020, 04:41:33 pmBut that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:48:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 08, 2020, 04:47:47 pmCan a mouse be plugged in?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:50:01 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 08, 2020, 04:48:45 pmThat is not the same; a touchscreen interface is made for touch and usually doesn't work very well with a mouse (and vice-versa).

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:55:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 08, 2020, 04:50:01 pmNot sure I understand - I happily switch between touchscreen and mouse on my touch enabled laptop. For example, two finger zooming on the touch screen becomes rolling the scroll wheel on the mouse?I guess it depends on the implementation in each specific case?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 04:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 08, 2020, 04:48:45 pmI works on the SDS2102X Plus I have, actually works very well and complements the large touch screenThe mouse pointer moves to the touch screen gesture which is nice.Although this does not have a direct monitor output, but supports LAN and USB interfaces.Best,

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on October 08, 2020, 04:00:11 pmYes, that would be an idea ;-)

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:41:34 pm
content: tautech: "Have you looked at Siglent's newish SDS2000X Plus series ? Specifically SDS2104X Plus ?">>Yes, I have seen this. The ADC has no real 10 bit resolution and the resolution of the display is 1024 x 600,the RTB has 1024 x 800.But I don't know now if you can really see the lower resolution from the display.I have not yet found a video rewiew where I can see how well the touch screen works.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:42:48 pm
content: Quote from: GabeG on October 08, 2020, 03:32:32 pmOk, I will have a look.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 08, 2020, 04:41:33 pmYes, you're right about an external monitor, but unfortunately my pad is very small and I don't have room for it

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:50:36 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on October 08, 2020, 04:59:31 pmHow does that actually work - is it done with software that runs on the PC that "talks" to the scope, or something like that?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:52:26 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 08, 2020, 05:50:04 pmI have the same problem, but I found myself using a laptop on the desk most of the time anyway, so I just gave up and accepted a PC as a permanent part of the environment!

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 05:53:06 pm
content: "But that would disconnect the touchscreen. If the serial decoding on the RTB2004 is the same as on the R&S RTM3004 then it will be hard to find an alternative which works so well. ">> Yes, to my knowledge it is the same

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 06:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 08, 2020, 05:50:36 pmMouse shows up on large DSD2102X Plus scope screen when plugged into the DSO (USB), then moves around as usual and has the usual behavior with buttons. Touch screen is still fully enabled as are all buttons, if you use touch screen gesture mouse pointer moves to touch area. Example you touch Channel 1 input area and new screen shows up with Ch 1 selections, mouse moves to Channel 1 selection window so you can either use mouse or touch, then you touch Trigger area, mouse moves to Trigger area, then you make touch selection on Trigger menu, mouse moves to Trigger Menu. and you can use mouse or touch to select.Mouse doesn't have to be plugged in before boot up, can be plugged in anytime and DSO immediately recognizes it.Very well implemented mouse and Touchscreen, works just as you would expect, so no "learning curve" requiredIf you are asking how remote access works with LAN or USB, I don't use these since they only support a PC and I only have a Mac. There is also another type interface which is Web based, but I don't know about that either.Best,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 08:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 08, 2020, 05:41:34 pmNot real native 10 bit correct and the 10 bit mode is limited to 100 MHz BW which fits your needs.3 bits of ERES can be further applied to the 10 bit mode.FYI, I've checked the -3dB BW of SDS2104X Plus and it's some 185 MHz which is excellent for a 100 MHz scope.QuoteThe resolution is quite adequate for the SDS2000X Plus 10" display.QuoteTouch IME which is otherwise only with SDS5000X models is great although I have read some users have small difficulty in setting a zone which I have only tried a couple of times and indeed it is a little tricky setting a small zone but very easy with a mouse.I tend to use Touch, a mouse and the physical controls for advanced use and prefer to have a mouse connected for general use as it's easier to use with the virtual keyboards for naming traces or files and a mouse scrollwheel is better in the longer menus.YMMVEditOh and BTW a promo is running on the Plus series:https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/save-up-to-e1464-with-a-new-sds2000x-plus-oscilloscope-and-option-bundle/

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 08:46:41 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 08, 2020, 01:00:33 pmWhat about a USB-Scope like PicoScope 5443D (MSO) ?https://www.reichelt.de/de/en/usb-oscilloscope-100-mhz-4-channels-mso-ps-5443d-mso-p251228.html?&nbc=1With best regardsAndreas

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: Andreas on October 08, 2020, 08:46:41 pmThanks for your suggestion, Andreas, but I would like to have a standalone device with buttons and controls.For the Pico scope I would also need a notebook, because my desktop PC is located in a other corner ;-)br,Frank

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:43:49 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 08, 2020, 08:10:50 pm"FYI, I've checked the -3dB BW of SDS2104X Plus and it's some 185 MHz which is excellent for a 100 MHz scope.">> ok, thanks the info.Yes, I know the promo ;-)The knobs of the SDS2000X Plus make a somewhat cheap impression on the pictures - or is that just deceptive ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 06:53:12 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 09, 2020, 06:43:49 pmSome seem to worry about them however exactly the same rubberized knob has been used on several models before Plus. I like the feel of them and never see the silver ring when using the scope.Deceptive as you say is correct.....you should be looking at the display and not the controls !

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 07:05:32 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 09, 2020, 06:53:12 pmYes tautech - you are absolutely rightIf this type of button was already used on previous devices, it will probably last a long timeI would also choose the 100MHz variant and hope that some day a hack will be released for a higher bandwidth

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 07:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 09, 2020, 07:05:32 pmAlready done.......search some and you will find it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2020, 07:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 09, 2020, 06:43:49 pmThat would be least of my worries. Be aware that Siglent (and Rigol scopes) typically only decode what is on-screen. If you want more packets on screen then you have to resort to zoom mode and thus give up screen real-estate in a situation where the screen is already cramped. On top of that Siglent scopes only record enough data to fit the (zoom) screen (unless they have fixed that in the meantime) regardless of the memory depth setting. The latter can be annoying because you have to go back & forth between settings if you need to repeat the same measurement several times.The R&S scopes OTOH don't have these limitations; it will always have decoded data for the entire memory depth you selected. If working with protocol decoding is important I'd go for the R&S scope.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 07:05:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 09, 2020, 07:36:25 pmYep. If a feature is important then go with that feature.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 08:30:59 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 09, 2020, 07:36:25 pmAnd you don't see 1/10 of the memory in a R&S a limitation ?When with the SDS2000X Plus you can set a timebase with memory depth to 200 Mpts, capture and examine the complete record in detail.It still amazes me that experienced engineers cannot grasp the real power of a DSO....zooming in !

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 10:32:38 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 10, 2020, 08:30:59 amBut likely the limit for the number of decoded frames is far exceeded with such a long record. Something else to look for when using protocol decoding is the oversampling factor. This can depend on the actual memory depth used to speed up processing. So in the end the question is: how useful is the long memory record in reality where it comes to protocol decoding? Better do some testing to back up the claim 200Mpts is better. It may not be the case at all. The R&S RTM3004 I tested didn't had any trouble recording 32000 messages for example. Again, the way decoded data is displayed on the R&S scopes is excellend. If you make the decoded data trace higher then the text will be rotated by 90 degrees so you can cram a boat load of decoded data on the screen. But I get a salesman just likes to throw big numbers around.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:24:46 pm
content: 1 vote for Dave making an updated video on decoding - with some of the scopes and tests suggested by our most ardent decoding fans.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:26:53 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 10, 2020, 03:24:46 pm- could throw in a USB LA or 3 to show the tradeoffs

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 06:54:29 pm
content: If decoding with a scope is important, nothing can beat Picoscopes...R&S only has search on CAN. You can capture 32000 packets of I2C and than you have to search manually for one packet you need...

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 09:27:07 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 10, 2020, 06:54:29 pmroger thatthere’s the capture but then there’s the search and navigate - seems like someone should make a video to show the leading alternatives

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 10:09:30 pm
content: Yeah, if you need to decode a lot, Picoscope is the way to go. You're inherently limited by preprogrammed decoders in non-PC scopes. Streaming from a standalone scope via Gbit LAN or such is possible, but you get like 80MSPS@10 bit max out of that if everything aligns.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 10:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on October 10, 2020, 09:27:07 pmIt's simple, it's either Picoscope on PC, or if you want to do it on scope it LeCroy and Keysight... and R&S on their higher end scopes.. 2000/3000/4000 series are not included...For instance, Keysight 3000T series has small memory, but hardware decode works from before A/D decimation, so you can decode even when signal is visibly in a very bad shape. Combine that with segments and search that works over segments and any protocol you can decode a lot. In fact, you can decode so much, that if you want more, you need to go to PC based solution just because it's to much data for scope screen and ergonomics. While R&S 2000/3000/4000 has superior screen (size and resolution, not quality), very good decoder concept, much, much more memory, R&S decided not to make 2000/3000/4000 series as powerful as it could be... They can't allow them to compete with their own higher end offers... I was very disappointed. In the end you are more versatile with Keysight 3000T despite hardware limits.. Old story of good hardware used to the max capabilities and potential, compared to excellent hardware only half utilized...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 10:47:24 pm
content: Just a remark: only the entry level Rigol and Siglent oscilloscopes decode what is on screen. My DS4014 happily decodes whatever you throw at its memory. Searching, however is usually lacking and available in more advanced oscilloscopes.Did you look at LeCroy? A few years back I was looking at some used models that were quite advanced and right at your price range.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 10:46:16 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 10, 2020, 10:41:40 pmIt's always the same problem that competition must be prevented within the company.What about the SDS 2000X Plus, is there a search function for serial bus decoding?

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 10:50:25 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on October 10, 2020, 10:47:24 pmAt leCroy I only had a quick look, I'll have another closer look

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 10:53:55 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 09, 2020, 07:26:14 pmGreat

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 02:25:55 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 10, 2020, 10:32:38 amDecoding is not the only use of deep memory and yes your question about packets is clearly listed in the SDS2000X Plus datasheet:https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDS2000X%20Plus_Datasheet_DS0102XP_E01A.pdfI2C Decoded frames (Max.) 2,000SPI Decoded frames (Max.) 15,000UART Decoded frames (Max.) 15,000CAN Decoded frames (Max.) 2,000LIN Decoded frames (Max.) 3,000CAN FD Decoded frames (Max.) 1,000FlexRay Decoded frames (Max.) 1,000MIL-STD-1553B Decoded frames (Max.) 10,000QuoteOK so you're not comparing apples with apples.RTM3004 is a 5 GSa/s DSO with 80 Mpts max memory and is in another totally different price class to SDS2000X Plus DSO's.OTOH the OP was looking at RTB2000 which only has 10 Mpts mem depth so could well be more limited in the # of packets it can display.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 04:22:25 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 12, 2020, 02:25:55 amwhile far from an expert, i've used high-end DSOs, and (unfortunately) used low-end DSOs. i would say that for 95% of average users the siglent SDS scopes (i own an SDS1104X-e upgraded to 200MHz myself) provide usability and performance closer to the high-end. the technology has reached a point of maturity where the performance is, to be honest, quite amazing.however, i would always recommend a cheap (clone) saleae logic analyser - these can be had for around the us$10 mark on ebay - hooked up to a laptop via USB. these devices provide far superior serial bus decoding than any but the most expensive MSO. the main place where an actual MSO (or DSO with serial decoding) shines is when you need to decode serial data and see the data aligned beside an analog trace. this is not something most folks need to do often, if ever!so, my suggestion is to consider serial bus decoding a nice extra feature, which may be useful on occasion, but not something to be a deal breaker when there are other parameters that have a far greater impact in your day-to-day use of the instrument. for just a few dollars you can get a dedicated device to do serial bus decoding that does the job far better than most DSOs and MSOs.just my opinion, mind you.cheers,rob :-)

author: Golds
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 07:10:52 am
content: TEXIO DCS-9710

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 07:17:22 am
content: The SDS2000X Plus comes with the Logic Analizer for free because of the promo, so you can think about getting one for USB later.But at the moment the one in the "Scope" would suffice for me.I read that the RTB2000 is supposed to have only one I2C/SPI decoder and Rigol and Siglent probably have 2. Is there any truth in that ?Rohde & Schwarz customer service said that one decoder would be enough because you could only trigger on one decoder not on 2 or more.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 07:20:28 am
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 12, 2020, 07:17:22 amNo, sorry it doesn't.MSO is excluded from the promo package.https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/save-up-to-e1464-with-a-new-sds2000x-plus-oscilloscope-and-option-bundle/

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 09:27:04 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 12, 2020, 07:20:28 amRight, you're right. I looked wrong

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 09:59:28 am
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on October 12, 2020, 04:22:25 amA sane opinion IMNSHO.Use a scope for analogue-domain signal integrity verification/debugging.Use a logic analyser or protocol analyser or printf() for digital domain verification/debugging.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 10:26:34 am
content: New situation for me:Possibly I can get this RTB2004 through a student discounthttps://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rohde-Schwarz-RTB2004EDU.htmlBut bandwidth is only 70MHz and without MSO.The siglent I had chosenhttps://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS2104X-plus.htmlhas 100MHz and can do almost everything the RTB2004 of the student version can do.With the RTB2004 I could still upgrade the bandwidth to 100MHz (If it must be) for 400€, but an upgrade to 200 MHz or 300MHz is much too expensive.The Siglent has the bandwidth hack, the RTB not (as yet).Now this is a difficult decision for me. Actually 70MHz/100MHz would be enough.

author: Fenstergucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 11:27:31 am
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 12, 2020, 10:26:34 amI bought the RTB2004 at 70 MHz and measured the -3 dB at 120 MHz. Now I have the 200 MHZ option, but I have not measured it yet.Edit: I would also wait for the firmware update to come this month. If this is not satisfactory, I would not buy an R&S instrument for my private use.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 12:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fenstergucker on October 12, 2020, 11:27:31 am-3 dB at 120 MHz with a RTB2004 at 70MHz bandwidth ?did you measure correctly ?Why is the update important ?Is something not working correctly ?

author: Fenstergucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 01:45:51 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 12, 2020, 12:40:34 pmI am sure that I have measured correctly. And it is not unusual that the bandwidth is higher than the manufacturer says.QuoteThere are some small errors, but they are annoying. e.g. in the LAN settings, changes in the ports are ignored. For me it is also bad that triggering on a PAL video does not work properly. The external trigger is also limited for this.But a bad error is in the normal trigger mode, where the sample rate and memory depth is displayed or used incorrectly. The documentation in the manuals for the SCPI commands is sometimes incorrect or missing.I am a bit disappointed about the quality for the price. Also I could never reach anybody at R&S by e-mail. I have given up collecting the errors and passing them on. As a company you probably find it easier to be heard.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 02:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: Fenstergucker on October 12, 2020, 01:45:51 pmthis is of course annoying with the bugs.Someone who is not so well versed may not even notice the trigger errors and look for the cause elsewhere.But bugs are everywhere, also at Siglent, Rigol, Tek, Keysigth, PeakTech,...Maybe it was different in the past, when firmware updates were not yet possible. Probably there was a better final check.My old analog Hameg Scope has, I think, no bugs. At least I haven't found any in the last 25 years ;-)

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 02:45:55 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 12, 2020, 02:23:26 pmIt is valuable to have tools that you trust (and know the limitations of)! It is very annoying dealing with buggy software buried in a piece of equipment.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 03:01:40 pm
content: What was the PAL trigger issue? I didn't have any problems when I used it a while back.

author: Fenstergucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 03:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on October 12, 2020, 03:01:40 pmIf the video trigger for the line number is used, the trigger point is either one line number too late or in the middle of a line. It is also often triggered to the wrong field. There is also partly a big jitter, depending on how you trigger. My other oscilloscopes trigger correctly, like the Hameg HM2008.If the external trigger input is used, only the trigger 'All Lines' works. With all other triggers like 'All frames' etc. the triggering will not work.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 03:38:45 pm
content: Interesting. I've used the same feature and didn't encounter that -- maybe it doesn't trigger correctly on some signals. I haven't tried external trigger myself.Are you a small business or a private customer? I didn't have any issues reaching R&S when I had issues via their GLORIS support site.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 04:09:24 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on October 12, 2020, 03:38:45 pmI had contact to the Rohde & Schwarz support too, but the employee told me that they have instructionsto provide support exclusively to corporate customers.Private persons should contact the distributorsBut this is now outside the topic ;-)

author: Fenstergucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 04:30:34 pm
content: I bought the RTB2004 privately. It is a really good oscilloscope, especially the logic channels and protocols work well. With the PAL video, I was able to record a complete frame with the segmented memory, line by line with 25 MS/s.But I find the detent knobs terrible, they sound like Easter ratchets. And the collapsed menu, which you have to scroll vertically, is no help either. I don't understand why you can't see all menu items at once.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 04:40:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fenstergucker on October 12, 2020, 04:30:34 pmMaybe this is better with the SDX2000x Plus with its detent knobs and menus.But there are probably only a few who have tested both devices side by side - SDX200xPlus and RTB2000.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 05:06:22 pm
content: Yeah, this might be a good reason to avoid the RTB if you aren't a company. I'm self-employed so I count as a corporate customer and get different support treatment.

author: Fenstergucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 05:10:07 pm
content: One difference is the screen resolution, the RTB has 1280 x 800 pixels.And a maximum of 1200 x 680 pixels are used for the signal.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 05:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on October 12, 2020, 05:06:22 pmI buy as a private personWhat is it like at Siglent ?may I ask questions as a private person ?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 05:51:06 pm
content: Quote from: Frank_MV on October 12, 2020, 05:10:50 pmWell here in US, Siglent USA certainly was helpful when I had a mishap with my new SDS2102X Plus. I needed to disassemble the DSO and clean the inside from a spilled drink (long story), this required removing the PCBs and thoroughly cleaning and drying them which required removing the front membrane panel. To get this out you must remove a label that covers the input BNC area to get to 3 bolts to fully disassemble the scope. I damaged the label removing it and Siglent quickly provided a replacement label at no costThis teardown adventure is how I learned just how well this DSO is designed and built, not the method I would have preferred thoSiglent CS here is the US is excellent, and I'm not a corporation!! This was my 1st Siglent instrument, so treating a newcomer like this leaves a lasting impressionThis is also good business practice, as I've now purchased the SDG2042X and SSA3021X PlusBest,

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 06:20:49 pm
content: This is how it must beSo I should probably opt for a siglent.;-)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 07:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on October 12, 2020, 05:51:06 pmMike, the Hamburg GM is a good man too. Very focussed on a good customer experience with providing good support. A few chaps here have had need to contact him and come away with what they needed.Frank, you can be confident with EU support.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 11:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 12, 2020, 07:20:28 amThose bundled promo items are "interesting" but what Siglent should offer is a bundle for this:http://www.saelig.com/siglent-sds2000x-plus/sds2104x-plus.htmthat includes this:http://www.saelig.com/product/spl2016.htmand this:http://www.saelig.com/product/sds2000xp-16la.htm

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 04:49:38 pm
content: If I have read the Siglent SDS2000x Plus manual correctly, the internal Waveform Generator has no sweep function.Can someone please confirm this.Thanks.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 06:07:15 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 12, 2020, 02:25:55 amThe RTB2000 is very close in architecture and software compared to the RTM3000. I doubt there will be a large difference in number of packets. Perhaps someone with an RTB2004 can do a test.

author: Frank_MV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 07:40:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 12, 2020, 07:23:40 pmThanks tautech