Which is better ? Würth Or Eurocircuits - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 08:12:00 pm
content: Which is better for PCB Fab. Würth Or Eurocircuits ?

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 08:32:07 pm
content: I don't have personal experience with either. There are no reviews for Eurocircuits on PCBShopper yet, and Würth is not included on PCBShopper at all (I hadn't heard of them before now, but if people here think highly of them, perhaps I'll add them).How did you narrow your choices down to these two companies?- Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 08:37:39 pm
content: Not used Wurth, Eurocircuits are OK, nothing special, only used for PCB Fab for work. both fairly large companies I would have thought they could send you some samples of their work, I had some PCB business cards from Eurocircuits at an electronics design show, they seem good quality (solder mask, silk).

author: DutchGert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 08:44:38 pm
content: Eurocircuits is cheaper/faster and has a much better site (love the online DFM checks).Wurth has a bit better capabilities and there boards look very slick (sharp silkscreen, beautyfull via's etc.) and they can do blind and burried via's much better.Also, Wurth offers flex and flexrigid but Eurocircuits has IMS boards.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 08:46:36 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on January 21, 2016, 08:32:07 pmJust word of mouth, there is a ton of pcb fabs. I can't decide.I've a 10 layer, controlled impedance, very dense board (min trace 4mil, min hole 10mil)I prefer 3313MS FR408HR prepregs and cores.Thank all of youWhich company do you(all of you) recomennd ? It's quite difficult to find impedance problems. So I would like trust them

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 09:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on January 21, 2016, 08:46:36 pmAsk Ätzwerk in München. No onlineregistration required, small quantities, online.calculation, helpfull people if something goes wrong, fast and prices are ok - at least for me. They sell you also stencils...good luckmk_

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 09:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on January 21, 2016, 08:46:36 pmJust use the one who makes the cheaper offer. They're both as good as it gets for standard stuff. But if you need HDI (which doesn't seem to be the case here), Würth is better.Also take a look athttp://www.fineline-global.com/, they're a PCB-supplier who offers very good prices, fast prototyping service and do any technology you can even think of.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 11:18:28 am
content: EC is good if you can use the pooling. If not than the price skyrockets.I ordered from both, usually we order from them if the lead time has to be fast or prototype. With EC we had some issues, inner layer broken track, wrong setup of milling machine etc... Happens when you make 100+ diffent order. Most bad boards came from the German factory, not the Hungarian btw. I order from them without considering else.Würth also makes top quality boards of course. I had a mail from them, that they are very sorry that an order will be 2-3 days late (!), but their factory burned down!!!http://www.we-online.com/web/en/wuerth_elektronik/news_weg/news_archiv_2014_weg/news-detail-we-gruppe_67582.phpThe PCBs arrived a day late, after they rushed a second production run in a different factory. That is the kind of professionalism, that you get in the EU.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 11:21:47 am
content: Not used Wurth but occasionally use EC, mainly for 4LIf you're close to design limits IME Their online DRC can be over-picky, and sometimes even if it passes that, it gets bounced later on in the process.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 11:55:44 am
content: Got a few Wurth dev boards off RS. They're quite nice. I'd be happy if my boards came out like that.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 04:26:40 am
content: Wurths Boards are among the worlds best, without a doubt. There is nothing left to chance there. Its just amazing. and they have capabilities others just dream of...It comes at a price to match.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 10:22:56 am
content: Just sent an order with Wurth as they offer .125mm track/space at reasonable prices. Only took a brief look round their site & they seem to have the biggest range of options, and smallest feature size options I've seen from any online PCB service

author: printedcircuit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 10:37:07 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on January 21, 2016, 08:12:00 pmi have heared about Eurocircuits but not Würth.Eurocircuits should be larger and have better fabrication capacity. if you care about quality or you want to fab some high density boards. i would say Eurocircuits.i guess you are a german. I know a german fab called PCB Pool. i red some comments that the quality of their board is pretty. could be a choice if you are willing to pay a bit more.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 07:48:06 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 29, 2016, 10:22:56 amThats interesting, i might have to relook at their pricing, as last time they were very expensive.Edit: just looked at the pricing and they have really moved quite significnatly since last year.

author: Supercharged
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 07:55:50 pm
content: I've ordered from Würth before; the quality was superb and their support was fast and nice. But if you're searching for a cheap solution i would suggest going for a Chinese manufacturer.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 09:02:45 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 29, 2016, 07:48:06 pmAs with all these services, there are some options that add large price jumps - it's always worth experimenting

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 09:04:47 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 29, 2016, 07:48:06 pmWell, two Eurocard 4 layer for 3 days prototype is 500 EUR at Würth, and 450 at EC.While for the same size, 50 pcs 8 layer boards for slow for the price it is 2400 at Würth and 1700 at EC. So Würth is still more expensive, for the typical stuff, Würt is still more expensive. That was my feeling last year also.On the other hand you get a HDI Microvia prototype for 660 EUR, which is awesome price if you ask me.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 09:58:45 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 29, 2016, 09:04:47 pmPCBtrain in the UK have a fast service for 2L and 4L, e.g. two 4L Eurocards GBP200 in 2 days, but no soldermask or silkscreen

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 10:18:10 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 29, 2016, 09:58:45 pmNo, that is needed. I keep the principle, where the prototype is an exact copy of the first production run, and it is assembled by a subcontractor, preferably the same as the production (that is usually very hard to achieve). To make sure PnP is OK, and all the little details are OK.If it needs to be ready ASAP, I dont care about the price at all. Probably because someone else is paying for it, but more importantly, me doing nothing costs more to the company. Otherwise, if it is not rushed, prices become very reasonable above 7-10 WD.

author: printedcircuit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 02:18:27 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on January 21, 2016, 08:46:36 pmwell that design is on the edge of a medium tech fab capacity. you can request a quotation frompcbway. They offer a pretty decent quality board. if they can fab it, it could be a cheap choice. and do not trust their auto quote system as that thing is not quite accurate

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 02:35:46 am
content: Quote from: printedcircuit on January 30, 2016, 02:18:27 amPCBWay's quote form is accurate, but they only accept payment via PayPal and they charge a 6.5% PayPal fee. That might be why the quote form's price seems inaccurate. It's not so much inaccurate as <ahem> incomplete.- Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 09:56:40 am
content: Quote from: printedcircuit on January 30, 2016, 02:18:27 am5-6 WD build time and 3-7 shipping time? That is ages. Chinese manufacturers are not in the same league when it comes to prototypes. EC can build a PCB in 2 days and I get it next day.You send the design 18:00, someone processes it india in the morning someone starts producing it.In the meantime you order components from Farnell on day 2 evening.You spend the third day ordering the assembly service.You get the components on day 3, you get PCB on day 3. Both of them shipped out on day 3 to the assembly house.Day 4 assembly is started, in the meantime you spend the day drinking coffee and posting on eevblog.Day 5 you get the assembled prototype.Whoever orders from EC or Würth, is not going to order prototype from China. Time is money.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 08:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on January 30, 2016, 02:35:46 amIf running a production quantity of boards (in our case 1000 x circuits) you can ask for the Paypal fee to be removed. 6.5% is a bit rich & PCBWAY are aware of this.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 08:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on January 21, 2016, 08:46:36 pmYou will pay a premium for these specs from any board manufacturer.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 10:22:44 pm
content: Quote from: DerekG on February 03, 2016, 08:12:19 pmTrue, but at small quantites you can also probably expect a much wider range of prices than for more "commodity" spec boards, as you're well out of the 'pooled' market.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2016, 10:56:45 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on February 03, 2016, 08:09:21 pmpcbway are priced ok, but their service is starting to become quite unreliable. Of last five orders, there has been some issue with four of them.

author: Multi-CB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 15, 2016, 03:35:39 pm
content: QuoteHello guys,I stumbled upon this post and have to comment this (I know I am late). I was wondering why no one was mentioning my employer Multi-CB:www.multi-cb.de.2 pcs. Eurocard with 4 layers in 3 production days cost approx. 230€ net.50 pcs. Eurocard with 8 layers in 15 days (faster possible) cost approx. 1260€ net.The quality and delivery reliability are excellent.@IcarusMulti-CB can easily produce 10 layer boards with impedance control and a high-Tg / low CTE material (e.g. FR408HR, I do not know if exactly this material is in stock).125µm tracks as well as 0.2mm vias are already inclusive.Sorry for making this small "advert", but I think you can see the difference.Pricing calcuculation can be done online:https://portal.multi-circuit-boards.eu/Regards,Marc

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 01:18:43 pm
content: This is very bizarre!I was literally just looking on the Multi-CB website after finding a link to it on electronics weekly or some other publication, and thinking that the prices seemed quite good in comparison to the likes of Eurocircuits, and thought i'd do a quick check on relies on the blog and voila!I'd never heard of Multi-CB before, it's not what you might call well advertised like, anywhere! On paper it does look comparable.

author: Multi-CB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 02:02:29 pm
content: Hello Wilksey,thanks for your input! We are trying to be recognized all over Europe, but the budget for new technology is always higher than for marketing.We will try to expand our marketing efforts little by little.And yes, not only the prices are good but also the quality.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 02:19:45 pm
content: Quote from: Multi-CB on February 16, 2016, 02:02:29 pmMulti-CB, I notice you do not sell to hobbyists. What is the reason for that?- Bob AlexanderPCBShopper.com

author: Multi-CB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 02:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on February 16, 2016, 02:19:45 pmHello Bob, we came to the conclusion that hobbyists and (literal) professionals do have special needs when it comes to PCB production and procedures.As we can only concentrate us fully on one group, we try to do the best for the professionals.Marc

author: RobK_NL
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 12:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: Multi-CB on February 16, 2016, 02:39:17 pmAs a satisfied Multi-CB customer I can vouch for that.I also use EC, but in general I find that prices at Multi-CB are (sometimes significantly) lower.

author: Christopher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 07:29:26 pm
content: Very satisfied Multi-CB customer over here after two orders I'm going back for more