Temporarily connecting two wires together - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Pulseit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 11:46:51 pm
content: Hi, what do you guys find is the best way to temp fix two wires together? Cheap alligator clips usually result in a messy pain in the arse.I'm specifically trying to find out the name of these things (shown at 4:05)So I can buy them but my search terms have turned up nothing. What are they?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 11:51:14 pm
content: Spring hook test probes

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 11:56:11 pm
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/20cm-Silicone-Leads-with-2mm-Gold-Plated-Sockets-and-Mini-Grabber-Hooks-Pair-/171085144334

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 12:36:02 am
content: How about some small wire nuts?http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-72B-Blue-Wire-Nuts-100-Pack-30-172P/202894268

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 01:38:52 am
content: Some options:Elenco TL-21 Minigrabber to MinigrabberorElenco TL-12 Banana to Mingrabber SetOr make your ownVktech 10pcs Large Size Round Single Hook ClipPlease set your country code in your profile.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 01:51:55 am
content: Quote from: bills on August 11, 2015, 12:36:02 amThis is the 21st century, you don't have to use those silly things any more.

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 02:40:45 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 11, 2015, 01:51:55 amIf you say soHave you found a better way? How about when they wired your house? I find wire nuts a quick and easy way to temporary connect wires in some of my projects sure beats clips and they don't short out. also good for mains voltage,if you have a better solution please advise.Not to mention they are inexpensive.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 02:44:25 am
content: Quote from: bills on August 11, 2015, 02:40:45 amWhy would they need them when wiring my house? Our accessories and devices are designed to complete the wiring system, not hang off the end of it.Far superior connector types are available. You might investigate the name Wago, they make nice options. No twisting and work hardening required, and they have options suited to fine stranded wire.

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 03:07:54 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 11, 2015, 02:44:25 am

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 03:09:09 am
content: Check any of your light fixtures, Have you done any mains wiring? Check your house or any industrial ac installation and you will find many wire nuts used.I am (was now retired) a industrial electrician all of the 480v 3 phase motors had at least 6 wire nuts connecting thepower.not to be disrespectful but look into it. BTW they work very well with a low failure rate. and did i mention cheap.http://www.idealind.com/media/pdfs/catalog/p-2873_wire_connector_catalog.pdf

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 03:26:27 am
content: Yes Wago has some very nice products, check the link for ideal you might like it.To op sorry for hijacking your thread.bill

author: Pulseit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 03:48:33 am
content: That's Ok, you can discuss any means of connecting two wires together I have my answer, "mini grabber hooks" such a great name.I boughthttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Multi-color-10-Pcs-Mini-Test-Hook-Clip-Test-Electronic-Testing-SMD-Grabber-/171724168031?hash=item27fb8edb5fFor when I don't need extra wire, andhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7-Pcs-Grabber-Test-Probe-Double-Hook-Clip-Cable-for-Electronic-Testing-/301677606938?hash=item463d62f81aFor when I do.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 11:44:02 am
content: Quote from: bills on August 11, 2015, 03:09:09 amFitted most of them.QuoteAbout half my house..QuoteNot a single one in my property and you'll have a really hard time finding them anywhere else here, either. Notice the flag.QuoteI'm well aware of what they are, how they work, and I don't use them for good reasons. Also, they're actually hard to find. (and here come the links to a horde of stores which don't exist outside the US..)Slightly back on topic: Using those hook clips for smaller stranded wires isn't a half bad idea. For larger wires, simple screw terminals or the aforementioned Wago connectors are good options. Wire nuts aren't suited to stranded, and require mutilating solid core (really no good for temporary use).

author: IdahoMan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2016, 02:55:43 am
content: BUMP.What about these:PCB screw terminals. They would be good for connecting devices with small wires together for temp setups. I've seen them where they solder directly to the PCB(right), or the screw terminal is a female plug and the male socket is soldered to the PCB(left).But where can you get a version where the male end is not soldered to a PCB, like this..Sources?

author: xygor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 01:56:50 am
content: Fahnestock clips! FTW!(that's not what was in the video though.)

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 02:58:05 am
content: I saw Martin Lorton using Wago lever connectors in one of his videos. I thought they looked great so I bought some Chinese copies. I'm very pleased with them. They make a great connection, you can't do it wrong, and they're reusable. I bought the three wire versions so I can connect two wires and use the third connector as a tap or monitor point.Here's a video where Martin compares a few connectors.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2016, 11:52:51 pm
content: I've done quite a bit of residential mains wiring. I have used wago connectors (the ones that you strip the wire and press into the connector - not the lever ones). The problem I've had with them is when you push the wires into the junction box, the wires will twist and pull out of the wago's. The wires don't come come completely out of the connector, but they do seem to want to unseat themselves. I rewired my entire house and used wago's because they are much quicker than wire nuts. I still don't really trust them and just completely rewired another residence but reverted to wire nuts which I find makes a much more secure connection (more work though). I think the UK also uses screw terminal blocks, which look very secure, but not sure how well they fit in a junction box.For connections that are temporary, I would not use wire nuts. The levered wago's seem to be much better for that purpose.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 12:40:21 am
content: Wire nuts are very common in the US, and I don't buy the explanation that it's because NFPA are a bunch of mugs. They are the almost exclusive connector in electrical junction boxes, recessed lighting fixtures, and are very common in major appliances, as well. They are for solid cores over 18 awg only, and are not really suitable for temporary wiring because the wire gets twisted. But that twist puts the wires being connected in closer contact and helps to prevent excessive heating at the connection.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 12:49:18 am
content: Quote from: steverino on November 17, 2016, 11:52:51 pmThat's because you're shoving a bunch of wires forcefully into a box, not dressing them in where they belong.

author: yngndrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 12:51:55 am
content: Out of interest what do you guys use in American for high current connections, say a cooker for example ? Presumably screw terminals throughout ? I'm not sure wire nuts would apply anywhere near enough force to prevent heating for these kind of currents ?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 01:58:12 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 18, 2016, 12:49:18 amThanks for the diagnosis, Monkeh (not dressing..., etc.), you're clearly an expert on mains wiring, and I will defer to you.It doesn't take much movement to get them to loosen, shove or not. And yes, 12 gauge solid core wires in a multigang device box does require a bit of "shoving" at times. US codes require at least 6" of wire extending beyond the box, before splicing. These jobs have been permitted and inspected, and I've never failed "dressing". Maybe you can provide me with proper instruction

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 02:00:24 am
content: Quote from: steverino on November 18, 2016, 01:58:12 amYou need to cause the wires to rotate to get them to work out of a Wago connector. if they're rotating, they're doing more than simply folding back where they belong, which means you should've dressed them properly before terminating. Yes, you need to use different techniques with different connectors..

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 02:18:17 am
content: Quote from: yngndrw on November 18, 2016, 12:51:55 amThe largest current device is typically an electric oven/cooktop combination (Not counting electric whole house heaters which most people find too expensive to operate). This is typically a 50amp, double pole, circuit, and uses #6 wire guage, usually stranded. This is usually the largest gauge wire where a (large) wirenut is used. Larger guage wires, such as service entrance wires, will use something like an Ilsco brand connector. This is somewhat like an insulated terminal block with allen key set screws (grubs?). Barrel crimps are also used, but require thick rubber splicing tape and electrical tape.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 02:29:32 am
content: Quote from: helius on November 18, 2016, 12:40:21 amA wire nut on properly "dressed" wires is a pretty solid connection. Another device, which inevitably leads to poor connections and is still allowed in the US, is copper ferrules which are slipped over the stripped wires and crimped. I've had to chase down many faults only to find a bad crimped connection. (I'm speaking of mains wiring here -- sorry for the tangent from the OP's original question).

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 02:43:27 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 18, 2016, 02:00:24 amMonkeh, I'll let you reply with the last word, but, when wiring older homes, you typically don't have full depth wall cavities for electrical boxes. You have to resort to shallow boxes. You make do with the space you have and this may involve rotational movement to get things to fit. And in this case, the wagos I described, suck.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 08:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: yngndrw on November 18, 2016, 12:51:55 amIf it's not something that plugs into a standard receptacle it's typically a dedicated circuit, so there's not much need for splicing unless you've renovated and moved the appliance or something. Freestanding oven/cooktop appliances typically have a dedicated receptacle with a suitably rated plug. Built-in cooktops or stoves might be permanently wired, I can't say I've every seen how one is installed. Many permanently wired appliances come with wire nuts for making the connection between the branch circuit and their internal wiring, although you occasionally get Wago-style connectors. Larger wiring, such as feeders, I've only ever seen done with set screw splices.Specialty equipment may have additional requirements or restrictions. I recall hearing a while ago that ETC doesn't permit wire nuts to be used inside their Sensor racks--I think they require crimp splices--which makes sense when you have up to 96x20A circuits plus 200+A feeders terminating in a wiring space that's only something like 8" wide and 4" deep.

author: yngndrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 08:43:11 pm
content: Quote from: steverino on November 18, 2016, 02:18:17 amQuote from: ajb on November 20, 2016, 08:00:53 pmThanks both, interesting to know. The thought of a 50A wire nut scares me (And you must need fingers of steel to twist one of them on some 6 gauge wire) but it sounds like they are an option that are never really used.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 09:17:24 pm
content: I somtimes wonder when i see a typical american wiring job. Drilled copper bars with grub screws are one thing to terminate bunch of wires, if tightened enough it shears the solid core wires, if not it comes lose in no time. Spring type industrial connectors and din rail mounted connector blocks are better but you cant find those in residential buildings cos its expensive and no homeowner would pay for it.However what i cant see is the use of crimped on ring terminals used with wire nuts its more secure and with proper spring washers it would never get lose, instead they losely twist the wire and sometimes the twist will untitwist beacouse of the direction which the nut is thightened. The most secure screw type connections are on the good quality mcb-s schneider electric acti 9 industrial breakers those can be thightened to a level without much effort that i basicly crimps an overhead aluminium cable those are usually multiconductor alloyed wires bundled together and pretty hard. Here i would get fired from my job if i use the method accepted in america for terminating wires for current carrying, for earthing purposes it can be used but you have to take care doing it otherwise it has to be crimped or secured with appropiate terminals mounted on the device itself.

author: IdahoMan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 11:59:19 pm
content: Should we just rename this Thread: "Wire Nuts"?Still looking for ideas for temporarily connecting small wires.

author: yngndrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 12:07:38 am
content: Quote from: IdahoMan on November 20, 2016, 11:59:19 pmTo be honest, for your temporary connections I'd just the lever Wago connectors:Works with both solid and stranded wireQuick and easy to useDo not damage or twist the wireAre insulatedCan connect more than two wires together (They go up to 5 way)Handle a range of wire sizes (28-12 AWG)Are good for 600V and 20AHave a built-in test port

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 05:04:59 am
content: Do you Wago nutshave experience with the newer, smaller 221 type vs the more common 222?

author: yngndrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 12:19:13 pm
content: I've only had experience with the 222 type but the 221's look good and have some good Feedback on Amazon, so I've purchased some 221's for the workbench. It looks like they go up to 12AWG which will be handy for power distribution.It's worth noting that there's two ratings in the datasheet for them:UL - 20A / 600VENEC - 32A / 450VI have no idea why there are two different ratings, does it just depend on the amount of acceptable heating and the different standards use different thresholds ?http://www.wago.com/media/221/downloads_2/221_series_overview_ext.pdf

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 04:52:21 pm
content: Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind having a set of test leads that had Wago-style spring connectors on one end and bananas on the other, for those occasions when you want a temporary setup that can be knocked about a bit more than typical alligator leads can be trusted to handle. More of an inline style would be preferable over the 222/221. The224 "service" connectorslook about right for that, although they only go up to 16AWG.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 05:04:50 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on November 21, 2016, 04:52:21 pmNot quite what you're looking for, but for those who lack binding posts on power supplies and the like:http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/4-mm-test-plugs-sockets/1814579/

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2016, 10:19:28 pm
content: What's wrong with one of these?Way cheaper than Wagos.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 06:28:52 am
content: Quote from: yngndrw on November 21, 2016, 12:19:13 pmAccording totoolguyd, it's because the max usable US gauge is 12AWG, which is rated for 20A. As for the voltage difference... not that it would matter to most people.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 06:32:45 am
content: Quote from: janoc on November 21, 2016, 10:19:28 pmI am feeling all nostalgic now. These are very uncommon in the US. They carry them at renovation stores like Home Depot (there is exactly one size and they're an expensive novelty) but I have never seen them used at all. My electrician (who is French too and was also licensed in France) keeps bitching about improperly installed nuts being a major cause of fires in the US (I believe him - I have seen so many poorly installed nuts). He just switched to push-in Wagos :-)

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 06:40:31 am
content: Quotereminds me of them US Twist-on wire connectors .

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2016, 07:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on November 22, 2016, 06:32:45 amAh okay. Here it is the opposite - wire nuts are very uncommon, I didn't even know what it was until someone has mentioned it here in another thread some time ago. However, these "dominos" or "chocolates" are everywhere.