New "lab" shopping list - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 11:42:59 am
content: So I've decided to take up electronics as another hobby (never seem to get good at any of my hobbies but oh well) now I'm going to go shopping for some stuff. Looking for some additional suggestions / ideas.What I already have:- Fluke 87V DMM- A stand alone non temperature controlled Hakko soldering iron- A basic solder suction- basic screwdrivers incl some small ones probably adequate for nowWhat I am going to get:- An Elenco breadboard + breadboard jumper wires- A JBC Soldering station that I can never remember the model number of. It's the integrated / compact one- Solder wick, flux pen, a roll of solder- A wire stripperhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X4PSUA- A Raspberry Pi kit- An Arduino kit- Hakko micro clean cutterhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPDG1K- I can't find the brand that Dave mentioned in his video- Some extra solid core wires in a roll that I can cut, mainly for breadboard / other stuff.- some stranded too- tweezers- Long nose pliers - any specific suggestions as to which one(s) to get?- Some sort of protective desk mat - might as well get the anti static one like Dave's but don't know where to find one in Australia.Other things I might need to get:- Power supply? That rigol one that Dave reviewed maybe - I'm thinking of making do with the numerous wall adapters that I have collected e.g. from an old adsl modem, phone, etc...Anything else?I'll need to clear up a desk....

author: RiverTown
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:27:42 pm
content: I think that JBC is overkill for you.I would buy Hakko, Weller, or similar cheaper good brand soldering station.With the rest of the money I would buy oscilloscope..You realy need basic power supply, but you can easy make it yourself. Even some basic LM317 circuit will be ok for the first power supply

author: karlmag
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:33:52 pm
content: You'll probably soon find you need more breadboards.Some kind of storage solution(s) both for parts and tools - or at least start considering some.Magnification lamp, or other means of magnification can be really useful.And don't forget good lighting in any case.... and a big hammer for all the stubborn stuff ;-)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 12:36:58 pm
content: First thing on your list should be an oscilloscope.The JBC is overkill for first hobby use, it can cost more than a cheap scope.A basic FX-888D will suit fine.

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:03:40 pm
content: And really you should make your own power supply's, it's easy enough to do.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:29:29 pm
content: Quote from: M0BSW on May 26, 2014, 01:03:40 pmIt depends where your interests lie. They make a good project, but only if you want to build one.I'm very glad I bought my TTi power supply. It cost me £160 (for a dual quad-mode PL320QMD) but I suspect that if I tried to build one of similar quality, by the time I paid for a case and four meters and transformer as well as the electronics bits and terminals and switches and pots and heatsinks and so on I'd probably have spent the best part of £50 to £100 or even more and I'd have ended up with something which was unproven and probably worse quality.In the UK, it is worth looking at getting a TTi power supply cheaply off e-bay as they are pretty robust, e.g.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TTi-PL154-15V-4A-PSU-Laboratory-Power-supply-/161301773941?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item258e55be75(I bought mine new from test-measure.co.uk but sadly he is sold out.)

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:42:02 pm
content: I don't want to end up with an FX-888D _and_ then eventually get a JBC one year later. So I'll get a JBC now and save that incremental upgrade wastage. I'll probably have it for life.The two major things I didn't have on my list are scope and power supply. I am most likely going to get that Rigol power supply sooner or later. I don't think I want to build one especially at such an early stage. For now I just want to get into making stuff that I can be excited about first.Any recommendations for scopes?I already have a hammer but might need to get a bigger oneStorage system.... hmmm... I'm planning to get those component kits / packs that come with some sort of organiser box.

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 02:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on May 26, 2014, 01:29:29 pmI only seriously got back into this about a year ago,my early days was tubes(valves), so had to learn this modern stuff, my main interest now and something I've fallen into really,which is servicing and repairing items ,I find this very fascinating,and I'm happy the way I'm progressing, so the power supply I built, has variable output plus some fixed outputs, mainly that's for TV's with different power rails, so that was my interest and need to build one .

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 01:25:31 am
content: I agree with the overall sentiment-buy the Hakko FX-888D and get your oscilloscope and power supply(buy or build). Get the pieces/parts and hand tools you need/want, then, get your JBC. The Hakko won't go to waste, I am sure you can find reasons to have a second solder station. Start off with all the basic gear you need and upgrade as time/money permit. Just to mention, my Hakko 936( real, not a clone) is about 6 years old now. Granted I don't use it every day but it looks almost new and works as new.However, if you have enough coin of the realm to buy everything including the scope, power supply and the JBC at the same time, then by all means, add to the corporate coffers.

author: LoyalServant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 02:06:05 am
content: For cutters I like the Xuron brand myself.They make all kinds of cutters and needle nose pliers.They have an ESD safe line as well.Good all around solid cutters.. those would be your good set and you can get some cheapies to destroy for next to nothing.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 02:09:15 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 27, 2014, 01:55:57 amVery well said.Quote from: wilfred on May 27, 2014, 01:55:57 amA few years ago I stopped upgrading my bikes and just make sure to keep pedaling. It doesn't matter what tools you have, it's matters what you build with it.Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 04:16:19 am
content: I have already ordered the JBC today along with an anti static mat (which costs $110 ouch).I can still get an oscilloscope + power supply but I'm still doing my research. I don't want to get super expensive scope / power supply but I do want to get a good/decent one. I don't want to upgrade my scope 1 year later. To me that is a waste of money.I'm currently looking for cutters, pliers and wire strippers.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:01:20 am
content: Just a couple thoughts on the small stuff:Pliers, cutters, etc - make sure you've got a set of cheap tools before you get a set of good ones. You need both and you don't want to abuse the good ones. If you only want to get one set now, get something intermediate so you don't feel bad when you inevitably misuse them cutting up lobster or whatever.Wire: You don't say where you are but if you're in North America, get a length of old 24ga phone quad. It's perfect for breadboards (cat 5 is too loose) and you can strip it with your fingernails. Commonly found for free near the fuse panel. Also some wire-wrap wire (30ga) and a stripper for it is perfect for point-to-point circuit wiring or modifying PCBs.Congrats on the JBC! I've been a hobbyist since the 80's and only recently got a 888D and have easily spend much more than it cost on Radio Shack pencils & Weller-with-a-dimmer "stations" before. What a difference! I have used a Metcal and while it was wonderful, I really can't justify one for how little I use it.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:07:23 am
content: I am in Australia, but I'm ordering some stuff from the USA (cheaper).I'm going to get a Hakko wire cutters, they're about $5 each. Also getting a jagged and smooth pliers, $11 each. Would you consider these hakko (or maybe xcelite) the "good ones"? For now I'm just getting something to get by because they're cheap enough.I'm getting wire rolls for breadboard stuff. They came in 6 different colours so that'll be good. Thanks for reminding me about the wire wrap stuff. It would come in handy. What's a good stripper tool for the breadboard / wirewrap wires?

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:25:31 am
content: Ah, that would be about intermediate for hand tools. Good stuff - don't get me wrong - but you won't cry if they get wrecked. The finer vintages start ~$30 and go up; a nice set of Wiha cutters will set you back something like $70. You don't want to be using those to hack through a bit of casing.I've had a wire wrap tool with stripper like this:http://www.mindkits.co.nz/store/tools/wire-wrap-toolFor almost 30 years and haven't lost the stripper because it's inside the wire wrap tool (which I haven't used for 20 years). But that's *way* too much money for what it is. I'll hunt around and see if I can find a better recommendation.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:26:49 am
content: I nearly fell off my chair. $144 for a wirewrapping tool??http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/wire-wrapping-tools/1944103/

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:30:23 am
content: The market has gotten very very small.They used to be much more common and cheaper.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:34:17 am
content: It makes the JBC soldering station seem cheap. A bit of metal.. no electronics, no need for "technical support"... sells for a quarter of the price of a soldering station with complex electronics and bits and pieces. Heck I could get a decent mobile phone for $144! Shocked.I think I'll pass on the wire wrapping for now.... I'll put it on the list for the next shopping spreeMeanwhile, I'll just use the solid breadboard wire + soldering if needed.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 06:01:43 am
content: Oh you can do yourself a big favour and pass on wire wrapping permanently. It's just the wire itself that is useful. But a stripper that will work with it is important.The breadboard wire should work well. The only nice thing about the wire-wrapping wire is that the insulation doesn't tend to melt if you're soldering really near it. And the plating is very easily soldered: you don't have to tin it.PS - I've been holding out a long while, but I'm pretty sure the Rigol 1000Z series is in my future. 4 channels for that price and the other features is quite a bargain. Say you're looking at a SPI bus and you need to watch the chip select. You can sorta do it on 2 with triggering but 4 makes it much more obvious. Right now I have an old Tek 465. (And a much older Heathkit!)

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 04:08:33 pm
content: That Rigol 1000Z is pretty cool, especially the model that has 2 channel signal source too... does it do the job of a function generator?

author: MrsR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:35:03 pm
content: Most of the small stuff, Bread Boards wire cutters etc you can get from Jaycar.They have some good wire cutters and fine work ESD safe Tweezers.RS and ELEMENT14 can scare your pants off with the prices they want for some of their gear.It's a great hobby hope you enjoy it.Rachael

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 06:13:42 pm
content: For what it's worth, I agree about the wire cutter sentiments. I would rather fork out for two good cutters and risk snapping a blade off one than buy one that costs a ton of money.Screwdrivers are the only hand tool I spend a lot of money on. Reason being I need to make sure the head on the driver is in good strong shape to minimize stripping risk to the screws. Wiha is unbelievably good in this regard.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 06:46:26 pm
content: Can I ask, have you any experience/education in physics/electronics ?A lot of test and service gear will do nothing without the pilot.Or worse!imvho.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 08:07:24 pm
content: I have some xcellite tools, mostly a bunch of the 99 line and a couple of hand tools. I like them and they won't break the bank. I also have some Bondhus ball end torx drivers. Very inexpensive, no more than about $7 USD each but have held up very well after about a year of almost every day use. The only visible wear is the name on the handles wearing off.

author: Dongulus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 08:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: Yago on May 27, 2014, 06:46:26 pmThat was my concern too. In your first post you mentioned that you never seem to get any good at any of your hobbies. How sure are you that you will enjoy working with electronics?I don't want to make any presumptions, but some people get gung-ho about their hobbies then abandon them quickly after great expense.

author: Mosaic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 10:29:09 pm
content: The thing about open source stuff like the Arduino and Raspberry is that they isolate you from what you ultimately need. A real understanding of how and why electronics works.They do shorten the learning curve a lot to make something work. This avoids early frustration for young players. But their convenience is a bit of a trap as well, you are insulated from the real workings of the devices.Open source DIY folks never really get to design their own hardware, it's always OTC stuff used in different combos. For me that's missing out on 75% of DIY electronics.At the moment I have just designed a built a multi MCU development board for PIC or Atmel or TTL/CMOS & even opamps. It's also a breakout for up to 40 PIN ICs. I could have 'bought' a board from mikroelectronika or elsewhere. But I wanted something that suited my needs and you can't really get that unless you design to meet your needs. DIY then includes creating your own toolset.I'll be offering this design in this forum soon for those who want something different and like the idea of building it!On the issue of what u need in a 'lab'.1) Scope (digital & analog)2) Logic analyzer3) Solder & Desolder - buy hakko4) A PC PSU with an LM317 or LM350 front end for project power - 3.3V,45V, 12V or anything in between with lots of Amps and short circuit protection.5) a Good DMM6) A noncontact temp sensor (infra red 'red dot' units)7) PCB manufacturing kit.8.) a PC with internet & a laser printer (toner xfer capable)9) Laser etcher/cutter (if u got the $$$)10) 3D Printer (if u got the $$$)11) Parts storage cabinets & breadboards.12) Drill press & carbide bits & a mini vice.13) Safety goggles & goggles with magnifiers.14) Birdbeak, flush cutter, quality tweezer, helping hand, dental picks, micro files, desolder wick, antistatic mat & strap, wire stripper, hookup wire - (Cat5 stranded & solid).14a) Assorted screwdrivers and 'security' bit sets for scrapping equipment for parts.15) isolation transformer & differential probes ($$$) (for the scope)16) variac for testing power supply reliability in non standard conditions.17) Cold spray for intermittents.18) LCR meter with ESR capability.19) Function generator (Arbitrary if u have $$$)20) Lots of workspace .just my 2 cents.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 10:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: Dongulus on May 27, 2014, 08:58:15 pmIt's called wash out, a common symptom with new hobbies and resolutions.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 03:09:49 am
content: Quote from: Yago on May 27, 2014, 06:46:26 pmI used to tinker with electronics when I was in high schol. I studied EE for my undergrad, and I used to ace the digital design, micro processor and circuit analysis classes. I've designed circuits with 808x, TTL gates and 555 ICs, made PCBs etc. That was a long time ago though, and I'd like to rekindle the passion again.I recognise that Arduino isolates you from having to know the actual working of stuff, but at the same time it's also a huge time saver not to mention a good reference material to learn how to actually build one up. I'm planning on playing around with it for prototyping and then if the "stuff" is worth making for real, I'd like to build the whole thing from scratch which doesn't seem all that difficult nowadays with everything so integrated. The MCU/cpu's these days are so damn easy to deal with compared to how it was.Anyhow, back to tools... I have ordered most of the basics but it's very spartan / bare. I am still looking for a powersupply and scope.I'm also looking at getting some components and PCBs for prototyping to play with and I'm looking at ebay (they come from china) for this. Some 555's, 74xx, a few transistors, etc.I ordered some "kits" from Elenco they sell various values for resistors, capacitors, etc.@Mosaic - you have quite an extensive list.... it'll be a while before I'll get them all... e.g.How important is an LCR?I've never owned one. Usually just used a multimeter to do basic tests.PCB manufacturing kit.... interesting... but I'm a few years away from that I thinkWork space...... that's going to be my next problem. I can either convert one bedroom for this, or the garage. The bedroom might be a bit small but I think I'll start there.This is all very exciting especially since there have been so many advancements in the past 20 years. The next problem is free time....

author: cellularmitosis
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 03:44:47 am
content: If you are looking to cheap-out on a current-adjustable power supply, the CSI1802X has served me well. $50 for 0-18V, 0-2A. That's all you'll need for a while.http://www.circuitspecialists.com/bench-power-supply-csi1802x.htmlhttp://www.circuitspecialists.eu/power-supplies/bench-power-supplies/adjustable-dc-regulated-power-supply-csi-1802xI would, however, recommend replacing the pots with 10-turn pots:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/picked-up-a-csi1802x-bench-supply-($50-0-18v-0-2a)/The nice thing about it is that the schematic is available, and is simple enough that it is hackable. In fact, I've got plans for making a few daughter-board kits for it.When you need higher voltage / amperage, or a second supply for multiple rails, time to build your own!

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 04:04:05 am
content: Quote from: cellularmitosis on May 28, 2014, 03:44:47 amThis would be good enough for me for now... but.... can't find it in AustraliaThe cheapest one I can find so far is this:http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3086But for $150, I'd rather fork out a bit more and get a rigol for $500https://secure1.bluecentral.com/emona/shop/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2857I'm still waiting to see if I can find something cheaper.

author: makerimages
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2014, 05:18:31 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 26, 2014, 12:36:58 pmYou going to review the digital anytime? (Sorry if I've missed it)

author: Thilo78
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2014, 07:30:52 pm
content: Quote from: cellularmitosis on May 28, 2014, 03:44:47 amDo you (or anyone else) know if these are available in/to Germany?I have been looking for a while but can't find any in the range with similar specs...Currently I use the PSU we built during education, featuring 15V/1.5 A, but am looking for a second one.The CSI1802X sounds good, especially with the pot mod.Specs would be great, given the mA display.Any idea?German Amazon and eBay show either crappy units or something beyond $1000edit: given the price ranges I found on Amazon etc., the Rigol would be the one eventually.It's about the same price as used 2-channel units on ebay.de

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 12:35:52 pm
content: There is a big hole in sub $800 power supply market that can at least rival Rogol's features minus the bugs. I am going to just wait - hopefully Rigol will either fix their stuff, or release a new model. I am afraid I might have to wait for years though. In the mean time maybe I will have to just build my own basic power supply. I'm not going to donate to Rigol's charity fund if they aren't going to fix their issues.

author: Doug_in_Minnesota
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 06:10:46 am
content: jimjam,It "appears" that money is not a serious issue for you. Sounds like you can afford to buy pretty much whatever you want. If true, then that's fine.BUT, I want to make a different case;I think mosaic's list of things you need is WAY too long. If you can easily afford it, then fine, but like you and others have said, if your new hobby turns out not to hold as much promise as you are expecting, you could end up with a bedroom full of $3000 of equipment that you bought new, that you could barely sell for half as much.Personally, I benefited a lot by having quite limited equipment in the beginning. Actually, I still DO have pretty limited equipment. It makes you resourceful, and it makes you learn how to actually make a piece of equipment work for you, and to THINK about what the equipment is doing, and how to use it.When I watch Dave's video's and I see 3 channel Rigol Power Supplies that show the exact voltage to four digits and the current draw down to milliamps, and even power in watts, I feel like it is almost cheating. Yeah, you'll have beautiful equipment that can do everything but walk the dog, but you'll be missing out on some of the "basic" type things that are good for learning when you have to "make do" with more limited stuff.With that said, here is my own personal set of recommendations for a fairly comprehensive but still "basic" bench. Of course, your preferences will vary. I really emphasize though, don't overspend in the begining. Get "reasonable" quality gear, don't buy crap. But at the same time, you don't need Tektronix scopes or Agilent frequency generators. Start slow, buy as you need, and just buy as much power as you need, plus maybe 20%. Learn how to exhaust the capabilities of your equipment, then trade up. And wahtever you do, TAKE GOOD CARE of what you own. Treat it all like precious materials. Don't loose attachments, cords, or manauls. When you go to trade something in, or to sell something privately, you want it to look brand new, no scratches, no dents, nothing missing. Keep everything in perfect working order, and in perfect appearance, then you'll always be able to sell it for the best price, or get the best trade in. If you loose the manuals for something, or it has scratches all over the face plate, you've cut at least a third or more off it's value.For some items, it is important to buy "really, really good stuff-extremely high quality". For other items, just high quality is good enough, doesn't have to be the best in the world.IN ORDER, here is what I would add, keeping in mind what you already have:oscilloscope. you already have a Fluke 87 DMM, which is great. That is the single most needed piece of gear to have. When you are comfortable with the cost, add another DMM, doesn't need to be at the same $400 (US) level of the Fluke, but another one or two DMM's around the $100 mark each would be very helpful (see Dave's video's).But, regarding the scope. I think that in the $330-$400 range, the Rigol 1052 and the 1102 are both great, if you want a digital scope. I would be very careful though about spending $800-$1000 on a digital scope, brand new, to start out. Might be way more than you need. If you've got money nto burn, then fine, but I would start at the $400 point, unless you geneuinely needed the better stuff.I would actually, myself, start with a USED analog scope (see Dave's video about getting an analog scope). I would buy a good quality (not primo) USED analog scope, in the $300-$500 range, tops. Maybe the Tek 2000 series. Maybe 100 to 250 Mhz. I would ONLY buy a used scope that you can TEST where and when you buy it, which eliminates ebay, etc. That's just my preference. Use whatever Autralia has that is similar to craigslist, or find some shops that sell used electronics test equipment. Test it, get two very good quality probes with a variety of tips.If you buy a digital scope, just choose whatever Rigol price point you are comfortable with. Just don't over spend. You can always upgrade later, and if you buy high quality gear to start with, you can sell it. But you can't sell low grade equipment, if you don't like it, just doesn't hold it's value.Of course, anything from Tek, HP-Agilent, Fluke, holds it's value fairly well. Not NEW value, but better than other brands.POWER SUPPLY(s)After a scope, this is the very next thing you need. Yes, you could try to "make" a power supply or two, and re-used PC power supplies are OK to do that. But I would recommend a plain jane NEW 2 channel (or three, with a fixed 5 volt channel) supply. You want something with good regulation and accuracy, and very good output protection. . Make sure you have SEVERAL usable digits of resolution showing the output. A multiturn pot would be great, if you can get it. I bought my VIZ power supply in the mid-80's, and I made a poor choice. The display only shows tenths of a volt, and it is not very accurate either. Also, although it is 0 to 25 volts, those are in steps of 5 volts, which is a mechanical switch, so you have to switch from the 0-5 volt range, 5 to 10, etc. You probably can't even buy something so crappy anymore. But you'll need at least 2 channels of zero to 25 volts or more, at a minimum of 2 amps, 3 amps is much better, and more than 3 amps is great, if you can get it. It is very important to buy a high quality power supply, don't skimp here. You'll never be sorry to have bought very high quality when it comes to power supplies. Eventually you'll want more than one power supply.LCR meter. No, you don't need this to start. You can get it later, when you have a better understanding of what you'll use it for. You'll be able to make a more informed decision. And depending what you work on, you might want a good ESR meter later, but you don't need that to start, either.Frequency Generator/Function GeneratorAgain, if you can find a very high quality used one, that would be good enough, as long as it is in perfect condition. Otherwise, if you buy new, you'll have many choices, and they aren't very expensive. Get one with a variety of Sweep and modulation settings, etc. Mhz is not terribly important in my opinion. Anything from 2 Mhz to 10 Mhz is enough to start. Quality and accuracy are most important. You do NOT need an arbitrary waveform generator (AWG). Quality generators start in the $200 to $300 range and go up.CounterYou need this. If you get a high quality scope or function generator that has a good counter built in, then fine. Otherwise buy a good quality new counter, they don't cost too much.Variac and isolation transformerYou need this. You can buy them as separate tiems, or as one unit. This is a pretty basic item, just be sure you buy very high quality. Don't buy used, buy new. Strongly recommend analog meters for both current and voltage (you need meters for both, at the same time). This is one of those things where you can almost judge the quality by how much it weighs. Heavier=better. I have an older VIZ (not top quality, but plenty good enough for me) combination variac and iso-tap, that I can barely lift.I can't think of any other important pieces of test gear for now, you'll know as you grow into the needs for them.Hand toolsWIHA is the only way to go for small screwdrivers and nutdrivers, torx, similar tools, in my opinion.Xcelite is crap.Buy GOOD QUALITY cutters, long nose, wire strippers, etcYou'll find the top quality hand tools in all the catalogs. You'll know it's the good stuff when they cost more than $30-$50 for cutters and long nose pliers. Don't buy crap hand tools, ever. And treat them like gold. Don't be cutting paper clips with your $45 Lindstrom cutters.Sounds like you already bought the solder stuff, but I wouldn't overdo it unless you've got oodles of money.Pomona and Probemaster both sell excellent kits of multimeter probes with attachments. Get the nicest most extensive sets of probes and attachments you can afford. But ONLY top quality silicone probes (meaning the leads), no plastic insulated ones. You will need LOTS AND LOTS of jumper leads, with varieties of tips; banana ends, various clip style ends, etc. Get lots, and buy good quality.Scope Probes. Very important. Buy very good quality, of whatever frequency range you need, but no more.You don't need to make your own pcb's, for now. Just buy lots of breadboards, and various types of "VaroBoards", or whatever perfboards are called down under.Logic AnalyzerNo, you don't need that.Temp sensor?No, you don't need that nowbreadboard wiresLike you said you are planning, you can buy rolls of different colors, or buy a couple of the premade kits. I have a kit from 3M, it is exquisite.ComponentsYes, lay in a very large selection of components, from all the passives, through transistors, op-amps, etc.Places like Jameco and DigiKey sell kits to (assortments). Getting several of these with lots of values, is one of the best ways to start (for passives I mean-resistors, inductors, capacitors). Not sure if they have transistor assortments, but with transistors and op-amps you want a very wide range. 3 each of 40 types is better than 10 each of 5 types. Components are always very easy to add to laterOther siliconYou'll need lots of voltage regulators, zener diodes, and some FET power transistors. Maybe a bunch of digital chips if that floats your boat. Also optocouplers, photo diodes and photo transistors, etc.Other stuffDon't be concerned about having every single brand new perfect tool you can think of before you sit down to start your firszt projects. If you've got money, you can get anything else you need via FedEx in a few days, from many suppliers. Just stay with quality, tazke care of your stuff, and grow your collection as needed.That's my opinion. Have fun, and emphasize safety. It's amazing how many ways there are to hurt yourself in a lab, and I've done most of 'em.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 06:39:03 am
content: It all depends what you are after.On the scope the ds2072a offers way too many extra features than the ds1052 worth the price difference by a long shot. Both can be "upgraded" the first one to 300MHz (3.33ns) the 2nd one to 100MHz (10ns)For example if you are going to do high resolution video driven by an FPGA, 100MHz will fall short.Edit an analog scope in the fast digital world is not worth it either, you need the memory depth and buying cheaper equipment is actually throwing money if you end up needing something better.I also rather have a function generator than a counter but that's me.As for the Variac, that is expensive so you might need it for your goals, but for mine a logic analyzer will be higher in my priority list.The tools and equipment depend on what you want to achieve.

author: larsdenmark
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 10:32:52 am
content: Quote from: Thilo78 on June 02, 2014, 07:30:52 pmReichelt.de has power supplies starting from 46€ (=62 $). It is 15V, 2A.

author: Thilo78
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2014, 10:41:04 am
content: Quote from: larsdenmark on June 20, 2014, 10:32:52 amIn the meantime I had the chance to check the Conrad shop in Vienna.Conrad shops in Germany have only few items in their showrooms, so nothing to look at or try out. But Conrad in Vienna is quite cool.Had the chance to look at a few of the PSUs and settled with BASEtech BT-305.It more than serves my purpose, and with a little tweaking to the current pot, it'll be fine.The Voltcraft PSUs have a very nice build quality, but I didn't want to spend the money at the moment.

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 06:20:34 am
content: Just my 10 cents worth (we don't have a smaller coin in NZ)From what you said in your #1 & #29 posts, I don't think you need to buy much more than what you already have.Best way to rekindle your interest in Electronics, is to........ START! you just need a few things more added to your list -- An Elenco breadboard + breadboard jumper wires- Solder wick, flux pen, a roll of solder- A wire stripper - Maybe, you can always learn how to use your side cutters- A Raspberry Pi kit- An Arduino kit- Some extra solid core wires in a roll that I can cut, mainly for breadboard / other stuff- some stranded too- tweezers- Long nose pliers- Some sort of protective desk mat- Side cutters- Jewellers magnifying glass- Bright lampIf money is not an issue then by all means buy what you want but your first post intimated this could just be a temporary hobby, so.......You don't need a fancy Soldering Iron, Oscilloscope or Logic analyser. Well at least wait to see what you need.I wouldn't suggest spending a lot of money on tools either, just some reasonable quality ones from Jaycar will do you just fine until you know you are serious about Electronics again.www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=TD2107this is a great little set as a starter and on special was only $19.95, the cutters are ok for soft component legs.Build your own DC Power supply, it would be a great starter project. 1-20 volts DC at 3 Amps should be fine to start with. Or just buy a couple of good quality Plug Packs 5VDC @ 2Amps, 9VDC @ 2Amps should be perfect for your Raspberry Pi and Arduino projects. I picked up a great little screwdriver set from KMart for $4, treated with respect they could last for a lifetime (maybe? - lol)I always fall back on the old saying "What do I need and what do I want, are two different questions" i.e. you don't need much to rekindle your interest in electronics.the most important thing is to enjoy yourself, electronics is a great hobby.

author: chrissmeuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 09:57:09 am
content: Buying tools to populate a lab won't rekindle an interest - it will result in slavery to the TODO list of things to get before you can get started.If I was to start again, I'd grab in order.1. A cheap DMM or second hand Fluke 77.2. Some hand tools (cheap needle nose pliers, side cutters and some small screwdrivers). I've come to the conclusion that cheap tools and expensive tools break at the same rate. The only real concern is that if you break what you're working on so small Torx drivers etc should be quality but everything else is a bit meh.3. Cheap 18-25W (Antex) soldering iron + stand4. Old Tek 2000 series scope (at least 100MHz) and some probes.5. Old TTi or HP power supply6. This kit:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electronic-Component-Starter-Kit-XXL-more-than-2500-pieces-k067-/351028527732?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item51baee42747. Some Atmel parts and XTALs etc.8. USB ICSP cable for (7).9. A reasonably holistic book. I'd recommend:http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/007177133610. Some pad/strip boards/PCB blanks11. Cheap breadboard with 4mm posts (all breadboards have problems after certain frequencies so revert to item 10 then).12. Some test cables (4mm banana jobs + BNCs + adapters).13. A big lamp and visor magnifier (if your eyesight is as bad as mine)14. Hookup wire, PCB headers, terminal posts and heatshrink (this stuff is really useful).There's a lot you can do with that for probably less than £300 in total.I'd add a function generator and some more components after that as they appear on ebay.Also, remember that what you haven't got teaches you how to make the most of what you have got. I've seen so many people in a panic because they don't have a certain resistor value or transistor for example and don't know how to substitute or work around a problem.

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 10:22:39 am
content: Very sensible suggestions.I still use my Fluke77 and the Power Supply I built from either an Electronics Australia or ETI kit in the 70's. Learnt a lot from building that PSU. I don't know what the digit resolution of the display is on the PSU as it depends on the angle you look at the needle!

author: chrissmeuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 01:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: What_NZ on June 22, 2014, 10:22:39 amMy old HP6236B PSU is like that. The needle moves on its own when there is no load too even though the voltage output is stable according to external measurement. Think it has had it

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 02:57:03 pm
content: Thanks for all the input and suggestions. So far I have gathered these items:- JBC compact Soldering station, 60/40 solder roll, goot solder sucker, solder wick etc. I love the JBC! Whether I am sticking with electronics or not, I know this will always be useful for the rest of my life!- Anti static mat + various anti static stuff- Hakko side cuter ($5), Xcelite pliers smooth and jagged (about $5 each), Tweezers- hakko fume extractor- Books (TAOE, Practical Electronics for inventors, a digital design textbook, circuit designer's companion, etc. I have also ordered some calculus books - although probably not necessary, but that's another hobby anyhow)- An Elenco breadboard (I don't like it), wires, etc.- Arduino uno boards + some "shields"- A collection of LEDs, trimpots, resistors, capacitors and some transistors. I think I need to get more variety of transistors, mosfets- 555s, 741, and shift register TTL ICs.Still to get:- More transistors, mosfets, other components- I am going to get a Siglent power supply SDS3303D instead of a Rigol DP832.- For a scope, I am tempted to get an Agilent MSOX3014A or MSOX3024A but not too sure about this yet. I'm weighing it against Siglent's SDS2000 series- Atmel stuff, ICSP cable (or I'll use an arduino to do it), xtals, etc.- a second multimeter-Some ideas of what to create!- Might design some sort of christmas light display for my neighbourI think that's probably it for now.Questions:Variac - Why would I need one?

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 06:36:43 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 22, 2014, 02:57:03 pmWrong question.You want to ask "Why would I need an isolation transformer?"The answer is: Always when you want to repair something with mains power. It reduces the danger. A isolation transformer is highly recommended!But: If you only want to work with 12 volts, arduinos, pic controller and such stuff then you don't need this piece of equipment.CheershammyPS: no signal generator on your list?

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 07:29:35 pm
content: Signal generator - I am thinking that the scope that I'll get will have this function - either Agilent, Siglent or Rigol. It is something that I don't yet really know why I need it for.

author: chrissmeuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 08:08:22 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 22, 2014, 07:29:35 pmIf you don't know why you need it, don't buy itSignal/function generator uses:1. Clocking logic circuits (lame - just use an Xtal).2. Testing filter response (if it has a sweep input, add a ramp generator (another function generator!) and a scope and you can do bode plots on a scope which is fun)3. Testing amplification and attenuation (is it clipping the waves, did you bias your transistor properly?)4. Signal tracing (where did that monkey go on the board?)5. Testing op-amp slew (this is really important - a lot of cheap-ass devices are out of spec when they ship)6. Calculating reactance and phase shift and therefore value of unknown caps and inductors (this is how some LCR meters work roughly)7. Substituting an entire chunk of your system for an ideal source temporarily to exclude coupling and impedance issues.8. Add a transimpedance amp and a scope and you can trace BJT curves.And the most important:9. lissajou figures by using scope X-Y inputs to show off funky patterns to people who have no idea what you are doing (actually you can use these to indicate phase shift which is cool but not half as interesting as doing 1950s sci fi effects).Edit: I don't actually own one at the moment annoyingly so am making do with a Wein bridge oscillator on a breadboard and a couple of hacked up colpitts oscillators.This is a sod as I'm trying to build myself a Mode 2 IFF transponder and interrogator (no particular reason).

author: Wim_L
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 08:48:39 pm
content: Quote from: hammy on June 22, 2014, 06:36:43 pmBe careful! A variac is not necessarily an isolated transformer. In fact, the usual type of variac is NOT isolated! Isolation transformers and variacs are two different things. Some devices are sold as isolated variacs, though. In that case, it's usually an isolation transformer and a variac combined in one box.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 09:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: Wim_L on June 22, 2014, 08:48:39 pmRight! Yes, sorry. My post was related to the original post:Quote from: Doug_in_Minnesota on June 20, 2014, 06:10:46 amThere was the "variac" and the "isolation transformer" mentioned, but jimjam only asked about the variac ... and not the IsoTrans.Sorry for this confusion.I don't see a need for a variac, but I see a need for an isolation transformer *if* he wants to repair mains powered stuff.Cheershammy

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 09:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 22, 2014, 07:29:35 pmHandy rule of thumb: If it's not a safety item, and you don't really knowwhyyou need it, youdon'tneed it yet

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 10:47:29 pm
content: Quote from: chrissmeuk on June 22, 2014, 01:14:18 pmYeah when I need an accurate voltage I just measure the output, it's not like you are needing to adjust the voltage all over the place when you are building a circuit and to get more precisionI did replace the Voltage adjust 1 turn pot with a 10 turn.

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 11:20:53 pm
content: JimJam I know this is going to sound incredibly rude and even overtly presumptuous but I believe you have a Test Equipment/specification obsession.I just read through 124 of your posts and unless I missed them, only one or two were about something you were actually doing with Electronics - a NE555 timer (I think one was). The vast majority were about Test Equipment specifications/ which one is best/ which one to buy etc etc.Please don't take this the wrong way (I know someone will anyway) as you can post and do whatever you want to do and it's really none of my business.I just think if you truly want to get envolved in electronics, then stop dreaming over Test Equipment and start playing around like you did with the NE555. That's how you will learn and ignite your passion.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2014, 11:49:17 pm
content: QuoteWell saidThere are so many (too many) people on here who seem to think electronics is about building a 'lab' based on the gear shown and promoted in the EEVBLOG videos.You then get the "what do I do now?" threads popping up...

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 02:32:40 am
content: Quote from: What_NZ on June 22, 2014, 11:20:53 pmHaha, no worries, that's probably true! Well right now I am _still_ waiting for the 555 and a few other ICs to arrive from ebay. I ordered them on May 30th and they still haven't arrived. So what do I do? Read books, think about stuff, playing with kicad/eagle/schematic capture software, blow up a few ICs, ask questions and be inquisitive about things that I don't already know aboutIt may appear that I have gear obsession and I probably do! I love good quality gear, but I'm trying to be sensible (which is relative) at the same time. I am happy with a $5 cutters for example, but I also love my JBC soldering station which to some might not be sensible to get, but to me it's absolutely great. It was one of the easiest decisions in gear selection for me. I have been soldering stuff since I was 12 years old (and now I'm just old) and using the JBC is an absolute pleasure. We only live once!I did need all these other tools that I've been slowly gathering, and while doing so, why not get something I'll be happy with. Once I'm over this stage, I guess I'll move on to asking noob questions about other thingsI only have a few major things still to get: power supply (so far I'm making do with a wall wart adapter, which works fine for my current needs), scope, and more components. All the rest are simply curiosity because when someone mentioned something I am not familiar with, my natural response is to read all about it and ask questions.For example, a signal gen - I won't get it of course, since I haven't even got a clue what to do with it. My current needs don't require one, but it is good to know about it and I appreciate those who have kindly explained them to me. Another thing I won't be getting: isolation transformer, because right now I really don't need it, but again it's good to know about them.So far my other posts have been asking about oscilloscopes, a second meter, and power supplies, and where to buy components from, which are things I'd still like to get. I don't go around asking questions about how to use a 555 IC, because I' already somewhat familiar with it and can figure it out myself... well for now anyway

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 02:36:18 am
content: Also well saidSounds like you are enjoying getting interested in electronics. Good luck with your hobby, there is so much to enjoy!

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 02:46:08 am
content: Oh, I did ask about how to rearrange the pins of a 555 IC on kicad, which I still haven't figured out, but that's a topic for another thread I guess.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 04:29:46 am
content: @What_NZI love your definition ‘Test Equipment/specification obsession’.I have spent over 20 years as an electronics hobbyist. I started out with a pencil soldering iron and hand full of toys. Over the years I have of course collected more and more bits, most very cheap due to budget constraints. Cheap power supply, etc.Eight years ago I took the plunge and purchased a second hand Fluke DMM to replace my old steam powered analogue meter.Three years ago I purchased a Saleae Logic because of the protocol sniffer capability… I had just got really interested in the ATmega328p.Things have changed a lot over the past three to five years and I am in a lot better financial position.A couple of weeks ago I stumbled across EEVBlog.After reading through the entire thread ‘sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus’ and a whole heap of others, I have decided to buy myself a DSO.Then I decided to also get an Arbitrary Function Generator.Have I fallen into the trap called ‘Test Equipment/specification obsession’… Probably.On their way from Tequipment is DS2072A, DG4062 and DM3068.Who do I blame… Dave, marmad, cybernet, and others…???No, I can only blame myself.@jimjamMy only word of advice is to take your time and have fun.I spent 20 odd years having fun before I splashed out for the more expensive stuff, even though it is only slightly more than entry level.(I have to mark this as my first post…)

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 04:55:56 am
content: Is your old steam powered analogue meter as good as mine?I think this was my first love affair with a piece of test equipment, well I was only 10 - lol

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 05:02:03 am
content: Nice! I used to have a Sanwa (I think) analog meter.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 07:49:10 pm
content: Quote from: What_NZ on June 23, 2014, 04:55:56 amI had a Hioki that probably came from about the same era.As I say... 'had'.It met with an untimely demise. Hioki Vs reversing car, guess who won.Thats what led to the purchase of the Fluke 87.It was a good choice back then as it had a highly responsive analogue type bar along the bottom of the LCD display that made the whole thing feel more analogue.

author: farsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 01:19:36 pm
content: Just found this discussion, and I am still interested as I found the need for tooling (esp. smarter wiring) with a recent Arduino setup too.* I have an old voltage meter, but which should need a repair (maybe I can just send it in somewhere.. it was not used for a long time)* I am thinking on adding an this open-source measurement stationhttp://redpitaya.com/to my toolkit - also not sure how relevant

author: Doug_in_Minnesota
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2014, 11:15:10 am
content: The value of a high quality Variac will become evident the first time you work on repairing something, and then turn the power switch on, and suddenly let out a massive amount of the magic smoke, probably with a lot of sparks and loud crackling noises.A high quality variac with both a voltage gauge and a current gauge is a necessity if you are going to do any design or repair of 110 volt equipment or circuits. You turn the power switch on, on the equipment you are working on, and then slowly ramp up the AC supply starting at Zero volts and moving toward the full 110. You watch the current meter and if it starts going up much higher than it should, you SHUT IT OFF IMMEDIATELY, and find the fault.The first time you "repair" an expensive piece of gear, and accidentally leave a short circuit inside it, and suddenly turn on the mains voltage and watch your expensive piece of gear blow up, you'll realize the value of the Variac.And yes, an Iso-Vac (isolation transformer) is a different piece of gear, used for a different purpose, but sometimes you find a piece of Test Gear that has a Variac and an Iso-Vac built into one box, like my Viz Iso-V-Vac III.