Who inventes SOIC16? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:09:20 pm
content: Who inventes SOIC16?I learned "the hard way" and must check data sheets and detailed delivery information before I ordering next time.I have to buy a powerful magnifying glass.Maybe I also need to buy a new soldering station?Probably I need to buy thinner flux wire.1 mm diameter seemed to solder all the contacts together

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:29:23 pm
content: SOIC is huge, what's the problem?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:42:05 pm
content: ...someone bored behind a computer?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:51:40 pm
content: Nah, SOICs are for industrial plumbers, real nerds hand solder BGA and WLCSPhttps://youtu.be/JWS2NWK3D4ghttps://youtu.be/e9mdGqu1aZ0

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 08:22:30 pm
content: Are you serious? You do need to update your setup and skills if you can't solder SOIC. It is HUGE by modern standards. To the point, where I consider it to be more work to move soldering iron between the pins an try to use smaller packages.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 08:31:01 pm
content: It's possible that SOIC is hard if your hands shake or vision is too poor. But that would mean (almost) any other SMD component will be too difficult.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 09:23:41 pm
content: Perhaps he means MSOP, not SOIC package

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 09:29:15 pm
content: To be fair, I am sure we all had a time when we switched from through hole to surface mount.I remember thinking even 1206 were small and a PITA on my first project with surface mount.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 09:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: uc on June 01, 2018, 07:09:20 pmuse the force Luke, (and then the magnifying glass for checking bridges) may the force be with you.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 11:10:57 pm
content: QuoteIt certainly is difficult to solder an SOIC chip onto a DIP footprint!J/K. OP, when you solder chips onto a printed circuit board (rather than trying to solder little wires to each pin) you will see SOIC is very easy and maybe TOO big.QuoteThis is partly a function of your soldering iron tip shape. You could probably stand to buy some liquid/gel flux to put on your joints, and to buy a tip or two to help out. Small bevel and chisel tips are probably going to help you for what I predict you are doing (protoboard, manhattan, fly-wire construction).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 12:49:14 am
content: Google for 'drag soldering' The trick is to use plenty of flux. You can buy some here:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425FUW2

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 01:01:55 am
content: This thread is loaded with great advice...except he obviously isn't soldering to a pcb/footprint.Quote

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 03:19:03 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on June 02, 2018, 12:49:14 amDrag soldering doesn't even really help on SOIC. Maybe if you're using a monster big tip. I typically solder the pins individually!Finer pitch is very practical to drag solder though.Tim

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 07:06:20 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 02, 2018, 03:19:03 amDrag soldering SOIC is a piece of cake. Even if you don't have a specialized tip, chisel will work as well.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 07:20:43 am
content: I often solder them directly to 2.54 proto boards:Just lift every other pin, solder down the remaining ones (now at 2.54) and use small wire for the lifted pins.Half-dead bug, you might call it

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 08:44:30 am
content: Thank guys for advise.Yes, I tried to solder wires at the pins. It looks like an alien spider.Today I will check for any short circuit.It seemed I need to leave the “through hole” road and instead go for tiny surface mounted solution.That of course if the amplitude of my hand frequency permits it.I have order breakout PCB for SOIC-16.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 09:04:25 am
content: https://hackaday.io/project/7574-the-devil-is-in-the-details/log/26074-diy-breadboard-friendly-soic-breakout-boards

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 10:22:57 am
content: Who invented MSOP

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 10:32:26 am
content: Who invented 4 pin qfn packages, probably an rf wizard wanting less parasitics.As far as soic and msop, reduction in die size meant smaller package sizes could be used. Which costs less in materials in the long run. And a higher packaging density.Under 0.5mm pitch, things get hard with pins, as they get too soft.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 12:18:07 pm
content: Quote from: uc on June 02, 2018, 10:22:57 amit seemsIBMfromHistory Lesson. now find who inventedall thesebut for what? life is too short.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 12:29:33 pm
content: By todays standards SOIC is huge and even MSOP seems big in terms of board space. With a good magnifier a fine soldering iron tip and 0.25mm or 0.3mm diameter solder you will find it isn't too bad. I've been re spinning a board design where most of the packages are 0.5mm QFN or DFN and the "biggest" package is 6pin SOT23 which I have to change to DFN if I can find an alternative part. It's even getting to the stage where I need to look at "hole in pad" PCB manufacturing to gain some additional board space. I'm finding the hardest part is getting good results from the paste stencil and then hand placing all the parts.

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 02:48:06 pm
content: The conclusion of my Q is that I feel really behind regarding electronic technology.I probably will stay at “through hole to surface mount” and SOIC until am master it.But I must make an amusing comment.So if I understand the correct technical progress toward future!In order to soldering the next generation electronic components I need:1. Electron microscope2. Soldering iron tip of 200 nm3. Steady handTake care

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 02:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: uc on June 02, 2018, 02:48:06 pmSure you don't need that (look at the picture). Even if you meant digital microscope, it sucks for soldering. Optical stereo microscope is much better for the task.EDIT, ok I didn't get the joke because missed iron tip size. But seriously, there are a lot of components which are just a bare silicon die (second pic) and they are soldered a usual way. By usual I mean reflow soldering. I hand solder them with hot air without an issue. Soldering iron is completely useless for any BGA or LGA type package (unless you make a dead bug).

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 03:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: uc on June 02, 2018, 02:48:06 pmPerhaps you can also start to dab (pun intended) into solder paste and ways to reflow it.Warning: a steady hand is still required, unless you can afford a P&P machine

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 03:40:46 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on June 02, 2018, 03:13:02 pmSorry I do not understand, please explain?

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 04:01:26 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 02, 2018, 02:54:01 pmThanks wrapper, It was not a joke in respect to insult the intelligence. I just highlighted the technology progress that proof me obsolete.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 10:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: uc on June 02, 2018, 02:48:06 pmUC, I am a hobbyist. I might have encountered what you are encountering. I think you may be caught where I was, so this may help encourage/energize you... that's the motive of me writing this reply anyhow...Looking at the miniature SMDs on a board looks both overwhelming and intimidating. I am retirement age - so I don't have steady hands nor do I have good vision.Two or three years back (there about) - approx 1-2 years into my EE as hobby venture, I had a board (ADA Fruit ADS1115) with a blown SMD and finally decided to deal with the intimidation I felt that held me back.If you are intimidated by the apparent difficulty in dealing with tiny tiny SMDs, the best thing to do is really just to over-power it. Practice is probably the best tool to increase your confident and a success (even within many failures) is the best way to overcome that feeling of intimidation.I use reading glasses normally. Basically the 2.00x reading glass = 2x magnifying glass. I also have a 10x loupe magnifying glass. I watched a few of the SMD soldering videos and went to work. Using an old StarTec phone, I removed any of those SMDs chips and other SMD components I can reach. I resoldered them back. I know a lot of them I probably fried (overheated). Some even had their legs melted away. I didn't care, because I was just practicing the soldering/desoldering. After about 5-10 hours of practice (over many days), I can solder on one quick enough that it probably didn't overheat, and the legs didn't self-destruct. With that, I did my real solder repair work. (I set good speed as less than 1-second continuous contact between soldering tip and IC's leg. The actual soldering limit is typically in the component's datasheet.)To overcome my own sense of feeling intimidated, I actually did my first repair with the TSSOP (0.65mm pitch, that's about 9x smaller than SOIC 16's 6mm pitch). I did both a TSSOP and an SOT23-8 (also 0.65 pitch) one after the other. I told myself if I did this one right and even with just one out of two works, other chips (with much larger pitch) would be cake walks. Both actually worked - it was luck for sure that both worked my first repair job, but practice certainly helped.I am no expert. The repair worked but it looked far less than perfect. Following that pair of repair work, I feel I can do it. The next few times with similar size were at perhaps 75% success rate, but that helpless/hopeless feeling of "this is damn near impossible" is gone. I am confident I may not get it right the first time, but I will.Go to it, use something cheap or worthless as practice (so there is no financial reason to hold back).My equipment list:- my vision is aided by a 2.00x reading glass.- I used a 10x loupe for inspection of work done. (Now I also use a 40x as well).- I used a 1mm width chisel head soldering tip.- 1mm multi-core solder-wire- Cheapo tweezer (hair removal tweezer from a "personal grooming kit" sold with finger nail clip for $1)- A screw driver (to press down on the IC to hold it in place)That was enough to get me to do my first two real work the first go. Give it a try. Just brush aside the reservation and hit it. Hitting it is the best way to wipe away the "this is freaking impossible" feeling.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 05:42:43 am
content: Quote from: uc on June 02, 2018, 03:40:46 pmUsually, SMD (Sourface Mounted Device) parts are not soldered pin by pin using soldering wire and soldering iron.Instead of soldering wire, there is a paste made out of microscopic soldering alloy balls mixed with flux. It looks like a grey metallic goo. The soldering paste can be spread only over the solder pads of a PCB (Printed Circuit Board), then plant all the SMD parts. Later, all the PCB together with the parts and the soldering paste are put in an oven, and heated for a specific thermal curve. This will melt the tiny balls of soldering alloy inside the soldering pasted that was spread over the PCB pads. The solder paste will melt, thus soldering all pins and all parts at once.Sometimes, instead of a heating oven, a stream of hot air can be used to solder (or rework) only small parts of a PCB.

author: kerouanton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 06:12:36 am
content: Yesterday I've discovered a new class of SMD components... This is a 008004 size capacitor.Try to solder that by handMore info and pics here:https://imgur.com/gallery/cEvDrYP

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 09:42:14 am
content: I reckon I could solder that. I might lose half a reel of them on the floor first

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 11:08:12 am
content: Quote from: kerouanton on June 03, 2018, 06:12:36 amI always though "Jack and the Beanstalk" and the "Gulliver's Travels" were just fairy tales for kids.Now, I'm not so sure.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: kerouanton on June 03, 2018, 06:12:36 amAnd if having one steady hand is not enough of a challenge, try to measure it with a multimeter

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:06:31 pm
content: I've hand soldered down to 0201, (nicely fit across a QFP packages adjacent pins), but that image of the 008004, Yeah, I think I would risk confusing a bag of them with a bag of suger

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:40:03 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on June 03, 2018, 12:01:50 pmLater edit:Maybehttps://hackaday.io/project/6289-smd-stickvise

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 08:32:24 pm
content: If you go to 35:00 in the video I posted earlier and time link to below, I do a couple of 01005. Just because you can doesn’t necessarily mean you should, though.In reality, you are quite limited in parts selection at the 01005 size, and 008004 is even worse and is quite expensive just for the parts. Even if you can get the parts, you need to make sure your assembler can deal with them. I doubt that there are that many small to medium volume contract assemblers who go much below 0201.https://youtu.be/JWS2NWK3D4g?t=35m03s

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 09:49:47 pm
content: At what point does solder paste become too fat and lumpy to solder these things?I suppose there are finer grades of paste out there?Tim

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 09:51:20 pm
content: Quote from: kerouanton on June 03, 2018, 06:12:36 amHoly cow, that is small.While it is designed for miniature elf to handle, but normal human can do it too. Look very carefully, you'll see the instructions on the back of the SMD printed in French, English, Chinese, Korean, and Swahili on proper handling and soldering techniques for these amoeba size chips. Just follow those instructions on the back of the chip and you'll do just fine.(Sorry - can't resist making a joke...)

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2018, 03:29:34 am
content: Not for miniture elfs, clearly intended for "Lilliputians"

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2018, 04:42:12 am
content: Quote from: uc on June 02, 2018, 02:48:06 pmI'm definitely less adept at hand soldering than a lot of people around here, but I can't recommend enough even a cheap stereo optical microscope. I use it to solder even relatively big components. It turns out that even if you can see the components by eye, looking at the magnified view makes your hands steadier.Another big help is to get a few good tweezers. An important part of surface mount soldering technique is getting the first 1-2 pins tacked down with the chip in the right place. Solder has a lot of surface tension, so it is easy for small chips to move when you hit them with an iron. Tweezers with different shaped tips (sharp, blunt, angled) are a good way to hold chips in place while you get the first solder joint.Another important factor is to have a good PCB. It used to be common to save money with single sided PCBs and no solder mask. PCBs are so cheap now this isn't even useful, but can make SMD soldering really unpleasant. Old, oxidized PCBs can also cause problems.Finally, if your vision and hand steadiness are degrading, and learning to solder fine pitch SMD doesn't sound like too much fun, look into assembly services. They cost money, but if you can afford it maybe be worth it.

author: alexg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:05:24 pm
content: Needed two tweezers just to get 008004 out of the little cut tape package.

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 09:09:11 pm
content: Quote from: alexg on June 05, 2018, 08:05:24 pmdear alexg, are you humen?Take care//uc

author: basinstreetdesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 12:17:56 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on June 01, 2018, 07:51:40 pmOK, hold it right there!I refuse to follow the ever-diminishing scale of components just because they are there. Trying to solder this stuff is just madness and torture. (008004? Give me a break!) My chosen style of prototyping is dead-bug and the parts I use for that are DIPs and TH resistors and stuff because I can easily deal with it, its still cheaply available in quantity, and I don't give a damn about keeping up with the Jones's (so to speak). For pcbs I have a small, growing library of 0805's but that's IT! My hands are pretty steady still as I near end of my seventh decade on this dirt but I am not going to get sucked into that particular rabbit hole with its attendant eye-strain, carpal-tunnel syndromes and increasingly expensive tools just so I can say to myself that I am up to date.UC, I advise you to do the same. I can drag solder with the best of them but I'll do that only when I need to./Rant

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 10:32:49 am
content: While there are few realistic use cases for using 008004 and 01005, as they are expensive and have limited adoption due to limited choice and manufacturing limitations, ignoring all SMD parts nowadays severely limits your options especially if you’re designing market leading products.That being said, why do you think people climb Everest or row across the Atlantic?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 09:28:51 pm
content: I remember thinking years ago that SOIC was small. These days I could pretty comfortably solder it with one of those big old Weller soldering guns if I had to.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 09:30:03 pm
content: But... he ordered the wrong package.Between throwing those parts away or buying newtoysequipment, there's really no choice. Sorry about the vacation fund, honey. Daddy needs to buy some tools.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2018, 07:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on June 06, 2018, 10:32:49 amHow true! I almost want to buy a few 008004 to see if I could.

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2018, 08:37:44 pm
content: Sorry guys that I “open Pandora's box” but I learn a lot.Take care.//uc

author: pixelk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 11:22:48 pm
content: Just had to add this gem :0.4 mm pitch staggered array 1,555 x 1,403 mm

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2018, 12:30:57 am
content: We really need some nanotech here, so those parts can walk themselves onto the board and sit themselves down!