How to protect from the USB Kill Stick - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:18:15 pm
content: TheUSB Kill Stick aka USB Killeris a board with a USB connector and some capacitors. «When the device is charged, -200VDC is discharged over the data lines of the host device. This charge/discharge cycle is repeated many times per second, until the USB Killer is removed.» The manufacturers say that 95% of the consumer devices they tested are permanently killed by their stick.How do you protect a USB port so that the device you are designing is immune from this kind of power surge problems?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:19:22 pm
content: fit large TVS diodes across your 5V and data lines, and live with 12mb/s usb,

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:21:52 pm
content: There are protection devices for USB data lines. I don't have a part number at hand but give it a search.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:23:34 pm
content: Screw defence - let's go on the offence - if a -ve voltage is detected, put mains on the 5V line..

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 01:40:38 pm
content: You should also buy the USB Killer Tester to get the 50% discountRegarding the TVS, a diode bridge can be used to hide the large capacitance of the TVS. That method is used for Gigabit Ethernet over voltage protection, for example.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 02:25:43 pm
content: One bad thing about it, it seems they have just used a Toshiba USB Flash drive case,so would be pretty easy for someone to put it in a Toshiba branded case and fool someone.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 02:38:51 pm
content: Make a test device.. which acts as a USB host and exposes the data lines so that the original owner of the stick can place his hands on it. For the person who gave you the stick. It's cool because he/she has nothing to worry about if the stick is legit.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 02:47:20 pm
content: You don't deserve USB ports if you're accepting USB sticks off random strangers in the street.Seriously.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 04:02:46 pm
content: But why?So yeah, you destroyed this whatever device that has a USB port, what now? what's the point? do you get money from that? why would anybody need it at all?Usually people steal for money, kill for revenge\money\whatever.but destroying a device for no reason?

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 04:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on September 17, 2016, 04:02:46 pm

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 05:20:50 pm
content: 9 replies, 6 non-costructive messages. 0.33 S/N ratio. Not too bad.Let's try to learn something today. What would the bridge diode + TVS diode configuration look like? How does it work? I haven't found anything about using the two together.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 05:40:44 pm
content: Would an SCR crowbar circuit be too slow?Or could some optoisolator be used on the inputs? Would have do be made bi-directional.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 05:45:40 pm
content: Add a boost converter to charge another capacitor to a few kV from the USB killer's 200V pulses, then send them back to the USB killer and kill the USB killer.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:02:50 pm
content: QuoteAside from some people just wanting to see the world burn, you can get all sorts of reasons for sabotage - political, economical, revenge... take your pick. Dropping a few in a parking lot in front of, say, a small corporate HQ you have a grudge against can have a crippling effect on them.As to the original question, well, make the protections intelligent while beefing them up slightly (to maintain the bandwidth reqs as well as to enable them to survive the initial shocks) and in the case of a repeated overvoltage incident assume serious malfunction/hostility and shut off power? Maybe transformer coupling the USB signal through a saturable transformer, which would effectively limit the power transfered?This is a good idea for a kickstarter product: USBCondom - extra layer of physical protection for your USB port/device (works both ways), complete with a ton of protection for all kinds of hostility.Edit: On the site:QuoteWell that's not disturbing at all...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:05:44 pm
content: Actually a TVS diode may not help. Those are often on the inputs already and they aren't made for repeated high current pulses. They are designed for high voltage, low current ESD events, not 200V and significant current, repeatedly. The diode will blow at some point and the next pulse destroys the device it was protecting. Game over.Optoisolating the ports would certainly do the job - but also make the ports uber expensive (try to optoisolate USB 3!) and useless for powering anything.Basically, the best protections against this sort of attack is to use common sense and not connect random crap to your computer. The same attack can be theoretically done e.g. using the power jack or through an SD card interface as well, then what?

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 17, 2016, 06:02:50 pmThey are actually selling a "shield" for exactly this purpose.Quote from: daqq on September 17, 2016, 06:02:50 pmWell, a much better and a lot cheaper thing in such case would be to plant a normal USB stick with some malware than to simply destroy a computer of some secretary or office dweller. That would give the game up right away and do only limited damage, whereas a virus could literally wipe the company out of existence if they have sufficiently incompetent IT staff/practices.This is simply dumb vandalism, nothing more.

author: bktemp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:14:52 pm
content: There is virtually no protection possible, because any protection with enough current handling capabilities will have too much capacitance for anything faster than a USB1.1.The best solution is probably adding a self powered USB hub with some large protection diodes added on the 5V and 3.3V rails. It will get killed, but it will be much cheaper to replace than killing the motherboard.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 06:16:43 pm
content: QuoteI was actually thinking about this - USB 3.0 is AC coupled by default (as far as I know). Shouldn't just adding one of those little wide band RF transformers do the trick? They would go into saturation as soon as they'd get too much power and just not transfer it. They are cheap enough.QuoteTrue. Please not that I am not defending it. It's an asshole thing to do and should be dealt with as such. I was just trying to explain why someone would do such a thing. That said, not everyone is capable enough to do a more sophisticated attack.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 08:15:51 pm
content: A USB port open to people with bad intentions are a bad idea anyway. A damaged PC might be the smaller problem than. So best would be not using USB.It could be more tricky if such a device is found or send by mail or similar. Still you can be lucky it is not a bomb, going off in your hand when inserted.Anyway one should be careful with a USB stick from a dubious source - so a separate test device, less expensive, slower and better protected may be an option. Something like a really old PC might be an option.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 09:39:20 pm
content: why doesnt someone make a dumb adaptor with a diode and some leds that light up when the data lines or 5V rail go under 0V or over say 7V, and have it connect to a phone charger, that would be an ideal fast test bed for these voltage converter usb's

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 10:10:56 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on September 17, 2016, 01:18:15 pma direct hit with a shovel to the face of the person sticking that usb killer to your computer would do the trick (such a person would definitely deserve it)

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 10:46:47 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on September 17, 2016, 05:20:50 pmPlease seehttp://www.vishay.com/docs/88843/anusingr.pdffor example.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 10:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 17, 2016, 01:23:34 pmHahaha, i want to see this made so badlyA video showing various USB killers being plugged in only to explode themselves.Coworker: Why is Ryan away sick today?You: He tried to plug a USB kill stick into my PCCoworker: What a dick but that doesn't answer my questionYou: My PC retaliated and he now has 1st degree burns to most of his hand.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 10:59:03 pm
content: I have few thoughts about this :1. I doubt anybody doing this to my computer would have enough time to start laughingAfter that they would buy me a new computer..So I don't think this could be called a joke.2. Serious and deliberate sabotage and vandalism.... In that case that would be done on unsupervised equipment... And if the protection is not on the motherboard and invisible why would they try it...And they can and will use a hammer or a brick and smash it, or plug USB directly to 220V AC, or just take the laptop and slam it on the floorNo protection from that..I know you wanted this as an engineering challenge, but that is what engineers do : find realistic and economic solutions to the problems..I this case I recommend baseball bat as a protection device...P.S. I don't condone violence, just joking... BUT... they would buy me new computer....

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 11:07:50 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 17, 2016, 10:46:47 pmWell that is how is done for normal ESD... but here energy can be much higher, and we don't know what and how the voltage is applied (differential between data lines, to the ground, reverse... )So I think it is interesting as a challenge but in order to propose a solution, we would need to know what it really does, voltages, currents etc....Youtube is not a proof it even works... So unless somebody has one to reverse engineer it, in my opinion this topic is dead as to possible solutions..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2016, 11:17:06 pm
content: I don't see much use for this device. It can't be used to test something in a controlled and repeatable manner (like what happens during ESD and surge testing for compliance testing).

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:24:17 am
content: You really think people who build/sell these things try to get the device compliance/EMC tested?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:09:39 am
content: How to protect?Give me $200 and I'll give you a circuit that should work.Give me $2000 and I'll give you a circuit that will work.Give me $20,000 and we can go to the testing lab and blow it up with real lightning simulators...Besides TVS or clamp diodes, there are CCS-biased diodes (which have been used in Tektronix DSO input stages before), current limiting diodes*, MOVs, GDTs, and so on. It's really just a matter of getting the right stackup of parts to preserve the intended signal, while handling the rest within ratings.*Nowadays restricted to depletion mode MOSFETs, which are available with quite reasonable Rds(on), Vds(max) and Idss. A pair of DN3545, back to back, can do a fine job, without costing much capacitance (series or to-ground).Also,Quote from: Psi on September 18, 2016, 02:24:17 amThey are. In a manner of speaking.Most standards allow test equipment to be noisy, which after all, might be the whole point when it comes to transient generators. Such equipment is required to be used by technicians in shielded laboratory environments. Whether that's enforced (and what those terms mean), well...Tim

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:21:59 am
content: This 0.1MW TVS diode would probably do the jobhttp://www.digikey.co.nz/product-detail/en/microsemi-ire-division/MRT100KP45A/1086-7745-ND/4354082

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:45:41 am
content: Quote from: anfang on September 17, 2016, 05:20:50 pmWhat they probably mean is the most widely used, standard protection idea of using fast, low-capacitance schottkys from the signal to both rails, you know, the one used in many protected CMOS inputs; except that one of the diodes would not go to the +5V line, but a specific "protection" rail consisting of a low-ESR, low-inductance capacitance and the slow protection device that can dissipate a lot of power - think of a huge zener, or an active crowbar circuit. This protection rail could be pre-biased from the 5V line through a big resistor and a diode, for example.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:23:36 am
content: Look at the internal diagram of this, for instance (p.6):www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/tsx3702.pdfAll pins have diodes directing excess voltage into an ESD clamp circuit. The diodes are PN junction type, not particularly fast, but low capacitance and very low leakage. They are just big enough to handle the surge currents required. The ESD clamp circuit is big enough to withstand the full surge, and will take up an appreciable amount of die area. Fortunately, the diodes can be relatively small, and so the clamp circuit does not need to be repeated for each pin on the device!Under normal conditions, the clamp circuit has some leakage and some capacitance. But under operating conditions, it's biased up by the power supply, so only diode leakage flows, which is small. Unlike some devices, you can push the inputs up above +V, but you incur the leakage of the clamp circuit. It's better than diode-clamped parts (where the input must be below VDD+0.3V or current-limited), but worse than unclamped (danger!) or zener-clamped parts.74LVC logic is "5V tolerant", so it has zener diode protection, which has to be per-pin. This is a big part of the cost in making discrete logic: it takes a lot of charge to swing all that capacitance by 3.3V or more, and part of the reason why high speed logic and signalling is all low voltage differential (LVDS, TMDS, CML, differential ECL..).More ideas:http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/AND8230-D.PDFTim

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:27:23 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on September 17, 2016, 01:19:22 pmA TVS at the data lines? Have an idea of the capacitance these have?This comes close to the suggestion that I had in mind. Take a small sheet of steel, drill four holes in it, and bolt it down in front of the USB ports. Makes them fairly resistant to that USB killer.Apart from joking, does anyone have a rough figure of the charge that the USB killer throws at us? If I assume that all the capacitors total to 20uF at 100V, this would be 0.1 joules then. That would bewaymore than any USB ESD clamp can handle that I know of.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:44:09 am
content: Quote from: janoc on September 17, 2016, 06:05:44 pmStill the isolated side would get destroyed.We have to dissipate that charge somewhere, and we have to maintain data comms. So we need a clamp that has low capacitance. So how about using a normal USB ESD clamp, and add a series resistor between them and the socket terminals.A quick simulation shows that a 10 ohms series resistor will already reduce the charge dumped into the zener to 1/10th. Will that be enough? Todays USB data line protection is only designed to handle ESD discharge. Considering HBM = 100pF at 8kV this is only 3.3mJ. Here I still have 11.6mJ.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:47:12 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 18, 2016, 08:39:21 amHey, that answers my question in my last post

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:42:03 am
content: USB3 dataline ESD protection devices have capacity on the order of 0.2-0.5 pF !!!Edges on USB3 data lines are at 50 ps (picoseconds) range..So I don't think 100pF would be good for signal integrity...

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:54:12 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 18, 2016, 09:42:03 amwho mentioned 100pF?

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 10:50:20 am
content: I use a USB isolator based on ADuM3160 for connecting all potentially dangerous stuff. Learned the hard way when a circuit debugging went sideways and I lost the mobo in my PC.Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 11:14:56 am
content: Quote from: tatus1969 on September 18, 2016, 09:54:12 amMany devices that can sink any significant current...If you're going to do something that works, it has to have very low capacity....But we are looking at this in a wrong way...It shouldn't have to be permanent over-voltage device...Lets design something that isolates USB completely at first, powers up the stick, and if it doesn't detect funny behaviour, connects it in a few secs...So no circuit would be connected in parallel with data lines while working...A sort of behaviour of antivirus when you connect stick: scan first, and then you get to connect..If you put a uC on it you could actually try to mount USB and check if it is in fact a functional USB device...

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 11:17:47 am
content: Quote from: poorchava on September 18, 2016, 10:50:20 amA pity that these only support USB1.1.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:23:17 pm
content: Are there comms lasers that operate over a wide power range? ie ones that can do high-speed comms at normal USB signal current levels but can also handle large energy pulses without complaining?I definitely agree with the ideas of fighting back. Make sure to get the USB port to enter a high-voltage 'self-cleaning' mode immediately after retaliation and forced ejection.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:46:34 pm
content: Why don't you use wall-powered USB 3.0 hub? That should provide at least some protection so that your MB won't get fried?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on September 18, 2016, 12:23:17 pmYeah, teach that capacitor a lesson it won't forget...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 18, 2016, 11:14:56 amSo... all I need to do is add a small microcontroller to my USB kill stick and I can bypass all your defenses. It can pretend to be a real USB device for five seconds before zapping you. Five seconds would give the capacitors time to charge nicely.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 01:32:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 18, 2016, 12:59:31 pmLike I said, it is like with viruses, you can't stop the back and forth game... Likewise, if you make a surge protector, i can always make a stick with more energy and burn trough...But unlike viruses, that can come unnoticed, somebody has to hand you this crap, and you have to willingly put it in USB port for some reason...And while now they are claiming some "testing bullshit" as a reason to sell and own this, if you did all that you said (and possibly more..) to SURPASS protection schemes, than by making and owning one of those you are proving malevolent and deliberately designing, making and using a device to do deliberate destruction...... And that is clearly illegal..Some time ago there was a scam, where a pretty girl with a t-shirt with a logo of a well know company was giving away USB sticks, also with a logo of that company..Like a normal marketing campaign.. Except USB sticks had zero-day root kit on it to spy on your PC (and to make it more fun, it wasn't only M*soft target on it)..So you take it (it was free, right?) put it in a pocket... One of these days you need a stick, and use it...They might have as well given you one of these USB killers...Morale of the story: Like you mother told you , don't take candies from a stranger ........As I sad before, it doesn't bother me personally, I see no scenario that I would stick a thing like that in my PC without knowing who was to blame... In that case they would pay for the damage... Case closed.In a public, unattended use, whatever you want to damage, just slam it with a hammer.... No need for USB bull***t...

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on September 18, 2016, 06:09:39 amThe CCS-biased diode bridge approach may be workable, for USB 2.0 at least, since it has been used to protect 50 ? inputs with beyond 500 MHz bandwidth in decades long past. Another advantage is that it doesn't have to dissipate the energy - unless the voltage becomes just too high.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:52:39 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 17, 2016, 06:16:43 pmNot sure whether USB 3 is AC coupled, but that doesn't help you any if the pulse goes to the power rails. Even then you still have the USB 2.x data pins in every USB 3 connector which cannot be AC coupled, because the various DC voltages on them are used for service signalling - bus reset, speed detection, etc.Those RF transformers have probably such parasitics that it would make the communication impossible.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:54:40 pm
content: Quote from: tatus1969 on September 18, 2016, 08:44:09 amYep, but probably cheaper to replace a blown isolator than the entire mobo. However, it is not really a practical solution.

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 05:08:38 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on September 18, 2016, 03:54:40 pmDepends on the motherboard. Desktop hardware is far less expensive than mobile hardware (while, of course, having far higher performance), for example. A new motherboard will often cost less than 100 euros.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:11:39 am
content: Quote from: dom0 on September 18, 2016, 05:08:38 pmYou wouldn't have optoisolated USB ports on $100 class motherboards. High speed optoisolators cost much more than that - e.g. the optical USB 3.0 cable from Corning starts at 140 EUR. Even if we assume 50% margin (which is very generous), the cost of such solution would be prohibitive. That's why I have said it is not a practical solution.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:23:54 am
content: How do you protect it from the Etherkiller?How do you protect it from people throwing a pitchfork into the socketDriving into it with a forklift?Shooting high explosive anti tank ammunition at it?There is reasonable protection, like HBM ESD. Protecting it against the USB killer is not reasonable.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 09:24:02 am
content: @dom0: although motherboards are not impossibly priced, the economics stacks in favour of the USB killer. The usb-killer is cheaper than a motherboard (and can potentially get re-used, if you can get it back). In a worst case intentional-attack scenario it's cheaper to be the killer than the victim.If we can reverse this situation then we are going in the right direction. It's worthwhile considering total cost (not just the money for the new mobo): investigation, time, hassle, emotional, etc.

author: chriswebb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 04:35:36 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on September 17, 2016, 04:02:46 pmThis may not be a great question to ask considering the ramifications, but I am wondering hypothetically if this device would be useful to people trying to get items replaced before a warranty expires. Would the damage point to sabotage or would it look like the pc board had a fault?edit: and no I am not asking for "a friend" or anything like that, I am just curious.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 06:39:21 pm
content: USB Kill Stick is a dubious device with vandal purpose. It is similar in intent to poisoning drinking water supply with real poison or some nasty chemicals/medicine. Or putting nails and sharp glass pieces on the road to damage tires (for the fun of it). In other words, it is a pure vandalism at it'sbestworst.Vandals of such sort is a reason why we can't have many more good things in public. Defence measures against such vandal techniques are very limited, if any, and not economical. Best defence is offence in this case. If you see such a person in action, you better make sure he/she understands what he/she should get in return for such actions.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:00:36 pm
content: I'm a proponent using a mechanical solution i.e. filling up all the holes in a computer with hot snot, then locking it in a metal box bolted to the desk, then introducing a policy of "if you plug anything in I will personally insert a traffic cone into your bottom wide end first".A random USB stick full of nasty is far more dangerous than a popped USB controller or main board from some clown with a USB stick with a transient voltage generator in it.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:02:20 pm
content: Quote from: chriswebb on September 19, 2016, 04:35:36 pmI doubt that this would get covered by warranty when you have charred components/traces or parts blown off the board. It would be obvious to any tech that the board has suffered some sort of power surge and such events are generally not covered.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 09:49:40 pm
content: I'm a techie at a major university. One of these can wreck havoc across a campus, and cost us beaucoup taxpayer Dollars from the emergency fund. Which is why I only allow fresh, vetted, USB sticks which are low level formatted on a non-Windows device at each use. When your 100,000$ machine goes down from a virus or worse, its no fun to tell a Prof he/she just has to set and wait leaking grant money till I can get something fixed. IF I can find budget to fix things.Keep in mind a day of FSE time in the academic world can approach /exceed 1500$ plus Parts, Travel, Per Diem, Hotel, and Expenses. No FSE I know keeps a instrument motherboard in his toolkit, either, so that can become a two day or more business day wait for FedEx, plus however long it takes to flash/program/.configure the board.I have already dealt with what I believe to be a student's stick that had firmware infused with a bug.... We get constant warnings about memory devices out there with really nasty stuff in hardware/firmware.Things like this fake stick keep me up at night, sometimes. If someone went from PC to PC in our one undergraduate lab, that would be 24 machines damaged/down/dead. We don't have budget for that kind of contingency.Its not a novelty, it could be an economic weapon in the hands of a misfit. Around here, it's use would result in criminal charges and civil penalties.I hope customs could keep them out by considering them a "criminal tool".Thus for critical stuff, I supply the sticks or another means of moving data. Which is pretty limited when it is a standard practice around here to keep lab machines off the net to prevent "Updates" from becoming a bug, not a feature. Push data off, never allow anything to be pulled on.Steve

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 12:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on September 19, 2016, 09:49:40 pmI wonder if there is anywhere this device can be reported to the powers that be as a "Weapon/Criminal Tool" this device should not exist.It serves no purpose other than malicious damage or vandalism.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on September 19, 2016, 09:49:40 pmYou'd think an educational institute could, um, educate their students about them.Let the students know these things exist.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:10:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 20, 2016, 01:09:41 pmTempting fate then.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:40:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 20, 2016, 01:09:41 pmIt is a problem in the USA, so I suggest either of the following solutions:- Armed police protecting the USB ports- More guns- Drones- JJ Abrams directing: Star Wars episode XVII. The USB Killer strikes back (which is also a reboot)

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 03:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 20, 2016, 01:09:41 pmStudents aka kids would love to "prank" their friends with that.At least the user base of Mac users would drop like a rock if those things get commom place in the USA.Given that in my time, spending time with wireshark and firesheep was considered fun times during class times, doing ARP poisoning, or just going personally to some un-attended switch with a laptop and a ethernet cable were also good options of a "good time", frying laptops with a usb pen would be pretty high in the priorities of some people..

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 03:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on September 17, 2016, 01:18:15 pmWhy stop at protecting? You should design a circuit that will fight back and kill the USB killer.;-)

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:03:10 pm
content: What if you isolated the data lines using SPDT/DPDT relays? Have the normally closed end go to a voltage comparator (with input protection of course) with a programmable delay and if the voltage is within limits for a set amount of time then energize the relay so that the device and host's data lines are now connected. It shouldn't mess with the normal USB communication as the device will not be "detected" until the data lines are connected.It seems straight-forward and one could build a prototype in a couple of minutes assuming they have the components on hand.

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:12:51 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 20, 2016, 11:07:19 pmI'm talking about using mechanical relays for USB2.0 as signal integrity should be acceptable. I don't understand the second part of your statement.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:18:02 pm
content: Nothing wrong with RF relays, just the commutation time is ~ms. The surge is long over and passed by then, so you still need something to handle it.A GDT would be the next best bet, triggering in < 1us maybe, and clamping to a modest (tens of?) voltage. The remaining voltage (and transient) can be taken up by some resistance and conventional ESD protection, probably still achieving a reasonable High Speed eye.Tim

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:28:57 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 20, 2016, 11:16:24 pmAh, thanks for the clarification. We all know there will be signal degradation in virtually all protection schemes which employ things in the signal path. It's all a matter of how much SNR one is able to tolerate which I don't know much of since I don't deal with anything more than tens of MHz. Other idea could just be a sacrificial buffer/isolation chip (housed in its own dongle) that goes between the device and host like the ADUM4160 from Analog Devices for USB2.0.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 01:39:53 am
content: http://usbip.sourceforge.net/Just needs some cheap device to run on. Distance it enough and with a wireless link, even a direct lightning strike would be stopped.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 09:29:56 am
content: USB killer updated! Now in Type-C! Hurry, limited stock!https://habrahabr.ru/post/310442/

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 04:08:42 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on September 21, 2016, 09:29:56 amWow, a 2016 Macbook with USB-C sort of survived!

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 04:21:36 pm
content: Was only 100V.