EE reverse engineers Ahmed's clock - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:37:21 am
content: Basically what I've been saying all along. He didn't make a clock, he just repackaged it.http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engineering-ahmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/EDIT: I did now see someone linked this article in the other thread. So I don't want to claim to be the first one to mention it on the forum.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 02:58:48 am
content: That is a rather interesting link, thanks.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 03:45:58 am
content: The kid was looking for a mentor. He thought that if he showed interest that someone would take an interest in him and guide him in electronics. The clock, made or re-packaged really is beside the point.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 04:14:41 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on September 19, 2015, 03:45:58 amIn the video interview with him he was showing things he had taken apart and then mentioned something he had made and they showed a picture of a USB hub with the case removed and some of the insulation taken off the cable.I can understand an elementary aged kid saying "I invented this" but 14 seems a little mature to be saying things like that.Apparently his dad is a local activist who the same day had heated argument with the mayor about her fight against allowing a sharia court to be formed within the city and have the city enforce its outcomes.So if his dad is a bit wacko, I certainly hope he didn't try to coerce his kid to do this in any way. And yes, I hope this kid is honestly into electronics with no motives (either his or his family's) or coercion.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 04:49:00 am
content: why did you start a new thread??

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 04:52:18 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on September 19, 2015, 04:49:00 amDifferent story.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:00:15 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on September 19, 2015, 03:45:58 amI do not agree. The internet and news networks are fashioning him out to be a "near genius" who "designed" his own digital clock. I am not trying to belittle his interest or his effort, just calling it what it is - a repackage of a digital clock which probably did not require heating up a soldering iron or turning on a multimeter.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:11:03 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 04:14:41 amI hope not as well. But what we don't do is punish children for the actions of their parents. The "made/invented" part always felt like a stretch, but I would never harsh on a kid for that. The correct course is to find them a mentor. If he is genuinely interested in STEM,he will continue.Punishing a child for others' actions that they have no control over is very emotionally scarring - particularly when those "others" are parents or siblings. If Ahmed is a pawn in a larger battle, then shame on every adult who is using him. But we don't punish Ahmed for that. In the midst of all the negative acts by adults, Ahmed deserves to know he is loved.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:12:03 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 05:00:15 amThere was however a screwdriver involved, because there are two screws. Therefore it would ever so slightly more accurate congratulate him for his skills in mechanical engineering.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:24:30 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 01:37:21 amI am glad someone else besides myself saw this:Quote

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:26:58 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 05:00:15 amI am fine with calling the act "brought a disassembled/repackaged digital clock to school." That's accurate and fair. I initially thought he might have attached a larger display onto a smaller clock, but quite obviously that is not true.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:34:59 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on September 19, 2015, 05:11:03 amHmm just thinking. Imagine Dave as his mentor. Dave's not a particular fan of religions and you have the kids dad... It probably wouldn't work out. I did try to see if there were any youtube channels about electronics or maker related stuff hosted by a Sudanese person but didn't find anything. I do remember watching one youtube channel on electronics before hosted by a 20's-ish middle eastern (presumably muslim) guy. (Yes I do know geography, Sudan is in Northern Africa, not in the middle east, just going off of the stats that a middle eastern person has a higher chance of being a Muslim than most other regions.)Now I'm not suggesting that he only learn from other muslims, that's not the case. I just don't want to cause problems with the kid's dad. Especially if we want to make sure this kid doesn't get pulled into his dad's activist stuff.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:38:18 am
content: He is known as a tinkerer by other students. He likes to take things apart and repair them when possible.By his own admission, there was nothing special about this contraption, put together in a few minutes. So, why was he so eager to show the science teacher, as if it was a major achievement? He must have had more intricate projects to show off.He also knew it might be mistaken for a triggering device, but still went ahead and took it to the classroom, probably against school rules.Did his militant father have anything to do with it? Hard to believe, but it can't be dismissed entirely.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 05:46:18 am
content: Here's the law that was used to justify his detention:QuoteAnd in the legal vernacular used in US states that put classifications on misdemeanors, a Class A is the most severe form, just under a felony.So yes it is legal to own a hoax bomb, and you can buy them online, you only break the law if you have any bad intent behind the ownership of it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 06:09:55 am
content: The instant I saw that photo I knew very well it was an old clock re-packaged, any electronics sayvy person wouldn't know that.But of course I didn't care, the kid is an electronics hobbyist either way, and deserves our support.Heck, I bet half the people on this forum stared out doing just what Ahmed did.I made the deliberate decision to support him and giving him the benefit of any doubt that he's nothing more than an innocent hobbyist. Guilty as charged.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 06:36:55 am
content: I wonder if Obama will have him come to the White House to show a disassembled/repackaged digital clock.Too bad Radio Shack is not around to take some of the credit.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 06:53:39 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 19, 2015, 06:36:55 amAnyone want to venture a guess if the president has this "only a clock" passed thru White House security without a thorough screening?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 06:58:07 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 06:53:39 amOr as one comment I read "I'm sure the kid's clock and nether regions will be thoroughly inspected by security before he gets anywhere near the president"Question is... How is he going to get that not-a-bomb-clock-in-a-case through the airport to see the President?

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:08:23 am
content: My son in law did several tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. We were watching the news when the phrase "just a clock" was mentioned. He laughed. I asked why the smirk?He said he has never seen so manychildrenpeople carrying "just a garage door opener" as when he was in hot regions in war zones. "Funny thing" he said, "I never saw any electric garage doors in Afghanistan."

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:09:31 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 06:58:07 amIf he still has the screwdriver he can put it back together and then put the screwdriver in the little case. Then let TSA put them through their bomb detectors... It doesn't look like a theatrical bomb so they will wave him through.Of course he can then reassemble it on the plane and threaten the pilots and force them to kamikaze the plane into the whitehouse. TSA didn't think of that did they?

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:13:55 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 19, 2015, 06:36:55 amWhatcha talkin' 'bout ?

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:02:59 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 07:08:23 amOf course, in Iraq or Afghanistan, there's a very real risk of getting blown up by a home-made explosive thingamabob, triggered by a cheap cellphone, or as you suggested, a garage door opener. Especially if you're a US soldier. On US soil, not so much. In the US you're very unlikely to be killed by a Muslim terrorist. I bet what went through the police officer's head was "Got one! Got one! Finally!" That's the difference between a warzone and an idle backwater town in the middle of nowhere.And I think the mistake they was to not understand how terrorists operate. They want to spread fear, not threaten to blow something up to negotiate demands. In the former case it makes sense to be covert. Only in the latter case might it make sense to say "HEY LOOK AT ME, I HAVE A BOMB!" Maybe they ought to watch less movies.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 09:11:44 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 05:46:18 amYou also have the right to get shot if a security officer thinks it's time to prevent others from dying.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 09:22:05 am
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on September 19, 2015, 08:02:59 amBackwater town in the middle of nowhere? Dallas / Ft Worth areahttps://www.google.com/maps/@32.862876,-96.9614334,10zThe Texas Urban Triangle is a region defined by three interstate highways – I-35 to the west (Dallas-Fort Worth to San Antonio), I-45 to the east (Dallas to Houston), and I-10 to the south (San Antonio to Houston). The region contains most of the state's largest cities and metropolitan areas, as well as nearly 75 percent of Texas' total population

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 09:35:21 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 09:22:05 amIndeed,it's more a hotbed of enlightened thinkers, scientists & artists.I believe the father has pulled the lad from his school after this stunt and already has a place at another "school" already lined up... hmm...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 10:16:21 am
content: I didn't pay much attention to the photo but thought it weired that a from scratch build would run off the mains, surely the first thought would be to use batteries. I was also a bit put out by him going on about "inventing" stuff but then americans are lazy with language and have to redefine everything so I guess that in american "invented" = "designed" in english and was wondering why in a video he was just pulling comercial boards around naming the transformer and then "invented" this intricate looking PCB.Perhaps the kids dad wants to play victim and has nudged him this way, some people particularly of certain backgrounds like to play the victims to get their own way.But having said all of that the teachers and police were obviously very pig ignorant to no recognise the "device" for what it is.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 10:30:09 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 10:16:21 amYou and I both know how easily the addition of just a few more wires and an SCR could change this "just a clock" into a detonation device. I would not expect any teacher - possibly - maybe the science teacher to be able to tell with any degree of certainty this is "just a clock".If I were to imagine any one of my three daughters in the same room as this device at the time this situation occurred, I would fully expect the teacher to err on the side of caution. I'm not paying school officials to be bomb experts first and protect my children second. I understand and appreciate those who claim an over reaction with the handcuffs and interrogation - I got that. But overreaction on the part of the teachers due to IGNORANCE OF BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY A VIABLE DETONATION DEVICE ? Sorry, they have my vote to protect my kids by this type of reaction any day of the week. I care about my kids lives first. Ahmed's "feelings" will have to take a number and get in line.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 10:42:35 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 10:30:09 amA detonation device is just that, not a bomb, it requires explosives to become a bomb along with some form of ignition device. Who would make a timed bomb that needed plugging in to run ? Hey that would make a good movie plot, they save the day by pulling the plug out of the wall or cutting the big black wire, of course a 9V battery has not enough power to power an ignition and was obviously not connected to anything, not that I know much about explosives but i beleive that usually a considerable amount of concentrated heat is used to ignite the explosive.It's a pity dad's bluff was not called if he put his son up to this.It is ignorance like this that allows someione make a youtube video that takes a photo of some people working in a building with a big stack of boxes full of stuff from "little fuse" and to claim they were planting explosives in the twin towers, then go through all the companies that own each other and try and draw conclusions. They stated or implied that little fuse was a supplier of bomb fuses and even showed a datasheet of a normal house hold fuse to back up their claims and no doubt many fell for it but for those of use that have heared of little fuse and use their components in our designs like moves, fuses (the short circuit protection type) and TVS diodes.Of course many pig ignorant americans will have fallen for this as will have many over in europe. I'll tell you the biggest danger you have in america.... AMERICANS !!!!! ignorant ones, and the same applies over here to the thicker indigenous inhabitants.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 10:54:33 am
content: I didn't think the issue was at all about race (or rather faith) from the start, just the batshit insanity of american schools and the whole USA fear of terrorism thing. American schools are well known for their zero tolerance policies, and even drawing a picture of a gun or tearing a piece of paper into what someone else construes as a gun shape can lead to suspension or expulsion. Some kid even ate a piece of food into a gun shape and was punished for it. Insane!So yeah, I thought this was a 14 year old nerd kid into electronics showing off his inventions to the teacher.But no. The kid clearly knows nothing about electronics. In an interview he even calls the 7 segment displays "light lines in hours and light lines in minutes". He has a book on Engineering prominently placed on his desk of crappy wires and PCB's all in a heap. Only it is clearly a civil engineering book, quite an ancient one looking at it.He is instantly paraded to the worlds media by his father, an islamic activist. The kid is being sent to another school - "possibly out of the country". Oh great, a Madrasa.I know Dave says he doesn't care that the kid is only starting out in electronics at 14. But sorry, if I cobbled up some tat like that at age 6 I would probably feel proud to show it to a teacher (actually no I wouldn't as I would clearly know its junk and not something I invented), but at 14... no way.Now at 14 I would get up to mischief at school, and wind up some teachers. I actually even had a terrorism manual confiscated by the Head of English (ironically it was given by my brothers Chemistry teacher who was a died in the wool Marxist).. I also made gunpowder "bombs" (fireworks really) and built electrical detonators for them. I wouldn't dare show the teachers because I wasn't stupid, but outside of school grounds during break I'd blow holes in the ground to show off (somehow my showing off never made me successful with girls)I would have definitely had the police involved if I was collared but nothing would have come of it. I mean terrorism was an IRA thing back in the '80s, fully supported by the Americans, not a muslim thing.I wonder if this kid had a school lined up, a "proper" islamist school by his dad. Then dad suggested the prank to his son as a way of saying "goodbye - fuck you!" to the old school. I'm pretty damned sure the kid knew of the zero tolerance policies. He even acknowledges that he didn't lock the case (he used wire to close it... hmm.... a case with wires hanging from it) so as to show it's not dangerous... yeah right. So he knew it could be misconstrued and definitely fell in the zero tolerance rules. Then shows it to a teacher.So from my initial support for this kid, then the obvious twist of the narrative into islamophobia, I think I've been done up like a kipper!

author: Eartoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:00:06 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 10:30:09 amI haven't been paying close attention to this but I thought I read originally that the kid threw something together quickly to show teachers at his new school he was interested in electronics/robotics.What doesn't make any sense is that if anyone at the school thought it was a viable device, why didn't they evacuate the building.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:01:18 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 10:42:35 amAu contraire! Our gunpowder detonators would be made from broken torch bulbs with the filament intact, or my mums wirewool from under the kitchen sink. Easily ignited by a 9V battery.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:01:21 am
content: I think a lot of us have been done up like kippers, but a bit of brain power on the part of those involved could have stopped this becoming an international incident and a victory for those wanting to claim they are being persecuted.If the device breaks the rules, take it off him, get the police (and maybe one that knows what a bomb looks like) let them look at it and keep an eye on him until they know what to do. the whole dragging him out and arresting him was just stupid.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:03:52 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 19, 2015, 11:01:18 amFair enough, but where was the ignition device. i mean you don't have to be that clever to spot that it is made up of:Power supply, main control board, display, buttons board. Where the bomb bits werre supposed to have been is a bit of a mystery.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:04:08 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 10:42:35 amA fresh PP3 have a short circuit current of many Amps, and a blasting cap usually are fired by bushing between 0.5 and 1.5 Amps thru them, but most go off already at 250mA. So I think we can safely say that a 9 volt PP3 can trigger a detonation, with some caps you could probably do it with a cr2032 button cell as well.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:05:24 am
content: Quote from: Eartoot on September 19, 2015, 11:00:06 amBecause they knew the kid was being mischievous and testing them on their zero-tolerance policy? They would have known his dad is a well known islamophobia zealot and probably wanted to find away of not making an incident out of it, but had to follow policy and call the police on a "hoax bomb". The kid tried it with one teacher, who told him to put it away and not show it again, because it was obvious. So the kid goes and picks on another teacher until he is successfully collared.Then the dad gets in contact with all his buddies to whip up a media storm.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:08:32 am
content: Using the argument that all components for a bomb are not in the case, therefore no one should get overly excited, may lead one to believe it would be OK to bring a 9mm pistol into class for show and tell, as long as it doesn't have a loaded clip and firing pin. Any idiot should be able to tell the difference - right?Some folks might even argue a teacher should be able to (immediately) tell Little Johnny's entry into this weeks show and tell is not a viable firearm due to lack of a firing pin. So let little Johnny demonstrate his spatial acuity by disassembling and reassembling the firearm in class.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:09:15 am
content: Everyone knows you need coily leads and cylindrical sticks for a real bomb.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:11:24 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 11:03:52 amThe lining of the case is pretty good for plastic explosive. But it's not the point - the teachers knew it wasn't an actual bomb. But it was intended to appear as a bomb and potentially be used for a bomb scare. Unless the kid was a member of the school amateur dramatics club and it was a relevant prop? There is no reason to bring it to school. It doesn't show any ability in Electronics whatsoever, and at 14 you would have to be a particularly "special needs" case to think you could impress a teacher with that abomination.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:12:34 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 19, 2015, 11:05:24 amIt just fascinates me how some are tailoring such extraordinary theories about that kid had ill intent (and being the evil behind what happened) to fit into this situation and justify those idiots and ill US zero tolerance policy.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:16:37 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 19, 2015, 11:11:24 amMy initial thought was that he's have to have aspergers to think this was worth showing off. Things indeed do not add up

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:17:55 am
content: I never quite understood why a Hollywood bomb needs this big red timer in the 1st place. It's more for dramatical reasons I guess, as from a logical perspective it doesn't make much sense.I'd assume that if you wanted to blow something up at/after a certain time, your biggest concern wouldn't be to give your victims or the bomb squad an exact time with optimum visibility.Then again, using a timer instead of some kind of remote control is kinda like 20th century anyway. Everybody talks about the IoT, so for the future, Hollywood bombers should probablyput a blinking IP6 address on their props.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:20:44 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 11:16:37 amSort of my feeling too. I'm going to hold off on condemning how they handled this until I know a lot more about it. On the surface, after seeing the pictures and knowing more about this kid's family background, I'm not so sure they were all that far off the mark.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:25:11 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on September 19, 2015, 11:09:15 amImmediately obvious this is not a bomb due to insufficient pre- regulator capacitance and high ESR in the SAMYO electrolytic caps. Even my grandmother can see that

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:26:45 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 11:08:32 amOK, lets nuke every single house in the country because in each there are this dangerous device "THE CLOCK" which can be transformed to activate the bombs.BTW, in the real bombs, usually wrist watches are used to activate them. Schematic is simple, connect the output to the piezoelectric transducer to the gate of triac / base of transistor acting as a switch + external battery, that's all, no other parts. I've seen on some news photos of the guide books with schematics, which killed terrorists possessed. Let's arrest all other kids who are wearing wrist watches to avoid this huge danger.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:27:05 am
content: Everyone knows REAL bombs use Nixies. Mind you, I guess that would only be for your best nuclear briefcase devices. Wouldn't want to waste a nice set of tubes on a firework. 70's "light lines" are better for that

author: sunnyhighway
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:30:13 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 05:46:18 amThis doesn't make sense to me.It would mean that, if any official of said agencies with the IQ of a banana does as much as raise an eyebrow over such thing, its automatically an offense?I want off this planet...

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:33:16 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 19, 2015, 11:27:05 amSure, but the need for an outlet or a large battery makes it a little difficult to hide. Then again: you wouldn't want to hide that cool Nixies timer anyway.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:36:13 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on September 19, 2015, 11:17:55 amAnd lots of easy to reach exposed wires for the hero to cut. It's always the blue one...

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:38:25 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 19, 2015, 11:11:24 amYeah , that little black and white satchel in the case - what is that for?Oh look, a cute clay model of a unicorn he made in arts class.Hey wait, why does the unicorn smell like almonds and have two wires out his arse ? Must be to hook up some RGB's to his Arduino. Electronic genius and clay artisan. Renaissance man perhaps?I know, I go too far. Feel free to carry on.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 11:54:20 am
content: Quote from: continuo on September 19, 2015, 11:36:13 amNo silly it's always the red one

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:11:57 pm
content: The green glow sticks in this flick were a quite clever ideahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEgsZ6y_Zso&feature=youtu.be&t=1h57m3s

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: continuo on September 19, 2015, 12:11:57 pmThey missed the fact that in series connection it doesn't matter which wire you cut to interrupt the circuit.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:34:57 pm
content: I had plain forgotten that I built a bomb once:Had a PIC16F628, an LCD timer countdown display, and keypad to enable/disable.I planted it under a bridge, but it got washed away in a 1 in a 50 year flood. Had to build another one.True story.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:49:26 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 12:34:57 pmSome sort of activism the young Dave was tied up in ?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:51:29 pm
content: Art school assignment...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on September 19, 2015, 12:51:29 pmThe art the scaring the shit out of people ? should be a book

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 01:37:21 amSuch clocks make a great base for tinker projects. When I was 14 I used a similar clock to keep the score on a pinball machine I had to build for a school project.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:56:51 pm
content: Best timer is still the venerable ZN1034E, which would time from seconds to decades, all while being quite micropower. No display, no nothing other than you could link up a LED as a heartbeat for the timer with the caveat being higher power use.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 19, 2015, 12:56:51 pmshhh that makes you a bomb expert and we will have to call the police on you

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:01:02 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on September 19, 2015, 12:51:29 pmA Geocaching cache, maybe? Was that already a thing back then?

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 19, 2015, 12:23:05 pmI'm sure they used audiophile grade directional copper for the wires

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:14:44 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 12:57:55 pmErr Simon, that is kind of difficult, as I used to actually work with real explosives and the delivery systems.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:15:29 pm
content: Stop before we have to turn you in

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:25:45 pm
content: I imagine the number of false positives turning up on the NSA's and other government spyware systems is driving them crazy at the moment.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:29:21 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on September 19, 2015, 01:25:45 pmYea. I once made a timer device to run a syncronous clock that did not have a driver, nice little black box with the circuit inside to generate a tic every 30 seconds to click the clock round. Dad's made was most pleased with it as he had had this thing for years and not been able to see it run. Makes a nice thud every time it tics

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:44:44 pm
content: Salright, my neighbour is an ex terrorist. You know I live in South Africa, where a holiday destination is Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.......... You know, less stressful.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on September 19, 2015, 01:25:45 pmMy video has the keywords "bomb", "president", "white house" in it, so should have gotten flagged somewhere I think*waving*

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:50:34 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 19, 2015, 01:44:44 pmYes I know a south african that moved over here to get away from it all.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:51:44 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 01:46:31 pmBetter be getting your excuses ready and counting the doe to make sure you have enough to survive on while your shut down for examination

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 02:22:47 pm
content: Dave already is Persona Non Grata in the USA, his name is on the List. Or at least, there is a D Jones on it. Or a Jones, or a Dave, David, Daffyd or some other homonym of either first, second or surname.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 03:31:28 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 19, 2015, 10:42:35 amHmm... - actually, they made:https://youtu.be/7CkTYPnJS0E?t=1m2s

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 03:33:51 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on September 19, 2015, 03:31:28 pmhahahaha, not exactly an action drama though, I bought the box set from a charity shop, sadly the 3rd DVD was unplayable.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 03:37:19 pm
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on September 19, 2015, 06:53:39 amExcellent point.

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 19, 2015, 12:56:51 pmA banana, a mousetrap, a battery, a few wires, a detonator and the explosive is all you need.Timing accuracy? Pfft, that takes the fun out of it.

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on September 19, 2015, 03:31:28 pmSpeaking of which, those darned dastardly bent pins. Gotta straighten the outlet to prevent that.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:41:52 pm
content: QuoteIt's OK, his Duracell corporate overlords and the Alkaline Battery Mafia will fix it.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 01:03:55 am
content: Was about to comment that Dave's already in naughty list when he tries to buy electronics components he needs

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:01:22 am
content: This reminds me my school days and I just went for a dig through my old books. Here is what I designed in primary school class (I think the subject was "creative thinking" or something). It was designed with the aid of Forrest M. Mimms Engineering Mini Notebooks. Don't laugh too hard as I was only 13 at the time. Giving it a brief look over it mostly looks technically sound to my eyes now except for the actual "explosive system".IIRC my teacher thought it was "interesting".LOL.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:26:40 am
content: That bomb design of yours looks old school. With today's technology all you need is a battery, switch, and a suicide bomber.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:37:44 am
content: Quote from: zapta on September 20, 2015, 04:26:40 amWell the workbook is dated 1989, which incidentally makes me 12 at the time, not 13.I just found another bomb theoretical design in the same workbook. I think the idea was that sparks from the DC motor commutator would somehow ignite the petrol.Geez I was such a juvenile delinquent.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 04:59:47 am
content: Quote from: cimmo on September 19, 2015, 07:14:27 pm

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 02:17:59 pm
content: I can't believe I'm agreeing with Richard Dawkins (other than a fondness for Romana)http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/richard-dawkins-criticises-ahmed-mohamed-6485128?ICID=FB_mirror_main

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 04:47:18 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 21, 2015, 02:17:59 pmthe clueless biologist about anything physics and chemistry... a narrow minded person like him deserves nothing...

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:02:57 am
content: Lest you forget:Dawkins was awarded a Doctor of Science degree by the University of Oxford in 1989. He holds honorary doctorates in science from the University of Huddersfield, University of Westminster, Durham University, the University of Hull, the University of Antwerp, and the University of Oslo, and honorary doctorates from the University of Aberdeen, Open University, the Vrije Universiteit Brussel, and the University of Valencia. He also holds honorary doctorates of letters from the University of St Andrews and the Australian National University (HonLittD, 1996), and was elected Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature in 1997 and a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2001. He is one of the patrons of the Oxford University Scientific Society.In 1987, Dawkins received a Royal Society of Literature award and a Los Angeles Times Literary Prize for his book The Blind Watchmaker. In the same year, he received a Sci. Tech Prize for Best Television Documentary Science Programme of the Year for his work on the BBC's Horizon episode The Blind Watchmaker.His other awards include the Zoological Society of London's Silver Medal (1989), the Finlay Innovation Award (1990), the Michael Faraday Award (1990), the Nakayama Prize (1994), the American Humanist Association's Humanist of the Year Award (1996), the fifth International Cosmos Prize (1997), the Kistler Prize (2001), the Medal of the Presidency of the Italian Republic (2001), the 2001 and 2012 Emperor Has No Clothes Award from the Freedom From Religion Foundation, the Bicentennial Kelvin Medal of The Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow (2002), and the Nierenberg Prize for Science in the Public Interest (2009).Dawkins topped Prospect magazine's 2004 list of the top 100 public British intellectuals, as decided by the readers, receiving twice as many votes as the runner-up. He was short-listed as a candidate in their 2008 follow-up poll. In 2005, the Hamburg-based Alfred Toepfer Foundation awarded him its Shakespeare Prize in recognition of his "concise and accessible presentation of scientific knowledge". He won the Lewis Thomas Prize for Writing about Science for 2006, as well as the Galaxy British Book Awards's Author of the Year Award for 2007. In the same year, he was listed by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world in 2007, and he was ranked 20th in The Daily Telegraph's 2007 list of 100 greatest living geniuses.

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:14:21 am
content: Quote from: GK on September 20, 2015, 04:01:22 am

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 04:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 02, 2015, 05:02:57 amoh poor... he doesnt even know sea waters that dont mix, and most importantly, he dare to say before or without investigating whoever says so as stupid... that one doctorate i know who made conclusion out of his arse before making proper investigation...http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/51293/how-can-two-seas-not-mixgenius my arse...

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 02, 2015, 04:51:22 pmFirst of all, if you're going to quote somebody, do it properly.Secondly, Dawkins doesn't know everything. He is a scientist and will happily admit to that, unlike some who get their wisdom pearls from books written in the dark ages.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:49:32 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 02, 2015, 04:51:22 pmI've read pretty much everything Richard Dawkins has written and I strongly suggest you do the same with an open mind. His insight on evolutionary biology and how it's shaped by game theory is simply fascinating. The way he refuses to dilute his views to match some of societies old nonsensical supernatural beliefs is simply an added bonus, even though costs him public recognition. I rate him alongside Darwin though comparison is unfair given the obvious circumstance. That's all I will say as its way off topic.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:53:05 pm
content: Sea water not mix? Is that because the sun sets in a muddy pool?

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 02, 2015, 04:51:22 pmI didnt want to get anywhere near this thread but an ad hominem attack on Dawkins was just far too much. If you disagree with his viewpoints, fine; but atleast have the courtesy to oppose his very fair points on backward religious beliefs rather than questioning his intelligence.and yeah, that kid didnt "invent" anything and him even hinting that means that he skipped elementary vocabulary classes too much. Maybe he can brush up on those skills before taking up that internship at nasa/fb/what have you.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 08:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 02, 2015, 04:51:22 pmThe claim in the Koran is thatsalt water and fresh water can not ever mix, not that under certain circumstances two lots of water do not.Shame on you for misrepresenting the Koran and that cumudgeons solid refutation of its erroneous claim.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 08:45:43 pm
content: Lets get away from Dawkins and Back to the clock and the kid...First, I think we should stop yelling at the school or the police. Schools have their policies. They called the police. The police have their standard procedures, they come, they arrest uncooperative persons if in their judgement danger to others may be a result of not arrest the uncooperative person(s).More interesting are:(1) Should the kid's family history affect how others judge the kid?For the clock kid, beyond his being uncooperative with the police, the school knew (and probably told the police) of his sister's bomb thread-related suspension and his father's activism - a 2-Time Sudanese Presidential Candidate (therefore, his public statements showing his attitude was known from his election website.)To make it a clearer choice,I am making this kid up: Taking ahypothetical kidwho is known to be a quiet kid (so neither police nor school knows him well and no track record of his own). This hypothetical kid lost a parent as a confirmed "suicide bomber", and the elder brother graduated from the same school after multiple suspensions, is now under arrest for attempting to leave the country under false identity to join ISIS. Is it fair to keep thishypothetical quiet little brotherunder close watch?(2) Does zero tolerance make sense?I can find tons of examples of that by simple web search.- A kid chew his Pop-Tart down and the school thought he made the pop-tart to look like a gun, he got suspended.- A 5th grader had a "projectile" fell out of his pocket, he was suspended. The projectile was toy "Nerf gun" foam bullet. Something that many sons and daughters had when they were little grade schoolers.- Kindergartners suspended for possession of a prescription medicine, high school students for unauthorized use of aspirin... (policy against drug and alcohol use in schools)Zero tolerance police policywas very successful when first tried in New York city some years back. That was the believe that take out those who commit "little crimes" and it will dissuade them from committing bigger ones. Does it translate well to school policy when they are dealing with little kids.My thoughts on the school policy is - I believe it is bureaucrats acting like bureaucrats and do not want to take any responsibility of judgement.Whatever you believe the reasons may be,does zero tolerance policy for school kids make sense?

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 08:52:53 pm
content: Zero Tolerance really means Zero Intelligence.Everything else is just circumstance to this incident. But that's the root of the problem with schools. Kid expelled for wearing an NRA T-Shirt, pop tart kid, kid expelled for parking off campus with a hunting rifle in vehicle, etc. It's the very "progressive" idea that if we just make things illegal-er people will stop doing them.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 11:51:33 pm
content: As I was done writing, I have to say I am not sure if I am more angry about their zero-tolerance stupidity, then the Dept. of Ed as a whole.While we are inviting illegal aliens without verifiable address to attend out schools, we are trying to catch those who decided to use a different school district: 'boundary hoppers" - those using false address (such as a relative's address) to attend better school in another district. Schools board paying a bounty for tips on boundary hoppers. I know of a parent in my state who was convicted. When I was looking for that news clip, I couldn't find that but found this:Schools boss faces probe for allegedly barging into home on residency checkhttp://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/02/schools-boss-faces-probe-for-allegedly-barging-into-home-on-residency-check/?intcmp=hpbt4"Bayonne (NJ) Board of Education pays $100, Clifton NJ pays $300 for tips...to catch the parents."and"Kindergartener A.J. Paches was kicked out of Brookside Elementary School earlier this year because his homeless mother used a friend's address to register him in the wealthy district of Norwalk, Connecticut. After expelling A.J., Norwalk authorities charged his mother with first-degree larceny for enrolling her son under a false address, a felonypunishable by up to 20 years in prison."http://www.alternet.org/story/152737/20_years_in_prison_for_sending_your_kids_to_the_wrong_school_inequality_in_school_systems_leads_parents_to_big_risksTalking about self-destruct...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 12:49:10 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on October 02, 2015, 08:45:43 pmNo, lets not. This thread is about my home made clock.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 12:55:10 am
content: I'm surprise he didn't say his god create the clock

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 12:56:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 03, 2015, 12:49:10 amHey, who am I to argue with Mr. EEVBlog himself...I am getting to damn depressed thinking about the ridiculous school system anyhow.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 03:24:13 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 02, 2015, 05:13:09 pmi can provide a reference, but not here. obviously you dont know what i was talking about. edit: or err what you meant is.... whisky is sea water?Quote from: Wytnucls on October 02, 2015, 05:13:09 pmno he didnt and so far he havent, afaik (edit: i'm talking about seawater thing during his visit to a middle east school if i'm not mistaken)... quite similarly to "who get their wisdom pearls from books written in the dark ages". the only difference is the person who get his wisdom pearl didnt quote himself as the originator of the text, but as for dawkins, its simply purely out of his backside... and he's pretty certain to what he said... methodologically contradicting from what he suppose to do for his level of person (doctorates). he appealled to a english speaking sudanese kid about the absolution of the meaning "invention"certainly that is an invention, show me a clock in a bag next to a big 50/60 Hz transfrormer? i think thats the only first in the world.. yes i agree with other above... zero tolerance=zero intelligence... but when ones treat other skincolor differently from their own, thats POYO (Proud Of Your Own), thats negative intelligence...

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 05:44:14 am
content: Quote from: han on October 03, 2015, 12:55:10 amactually, young man, its turtles all the way down.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2015, 10:45:48 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 06:09:55 amlooks like he is looking for a payday now:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ahmed-mohamed-demands-15m-compensation-for-homemade-clock-arrest-a6745706.html

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:00:35 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 23, 2015, 10:45:48 pmheeeeeey...it's not April 1st yet....

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:05:07 am
content: Wow.Another source:http://www.fox4news.com/news/53471848-story

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:12:29 am
content: Well I never. Who'd have thought that it would end with the family looking for loads of money in compensation? Pathetically stage-managed bullshit. Hopefully even in the litigation-nation that is the USA they will laugh at that one.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:46:04 am
content: Quote from: Delta on November 24, 2015, 12:12:29 amYeah they want 5 million from the school and 10 million from the city or they are going to sue. I say let them sue. There's no way I could see the school and the city doing any worse.Besides if they sue, they would have to release the records of the incident that the parents had forbid from being released to the public.Unrelated side note, most of you guys are familiar with Irving, Texas. The movie Office Space was partially filmed in Irving, Texas. The scene where they are walking from one building to another talking about all losing their jobs, was done at the Associates (now Citigroup) office block in Irving. And the restaurant where Jennifer Anniston worked that was between two other restaurants is also there (used to be Chilis, Bennigans, and Frijoles). When his neighbor was talking about building the McDonalds in "Las Golindas" that was a reference to "Las Colinas", the downtown area in Irving.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:48:00 am
content: Ive wanted to give this kid and his family the benefit of the doubt....but not anymore....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:51:43 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 23, 2015, 10:45:48 pmI was afraid it would come to that.One of my hopes when making my video was that it would provide support and encouragement for a 14yo beginning hobbyist to take his 15 minutes of fame and use it to get out of the future destroying spiral that is his family and their religion, and get into the sciences. But alas, his family moved him to Qatar, a country that has the death penalty for apostasy, and now this rubbish.Unfortunately he's not old enough to simply decide to leave all that crap behind him and chose his own path.Sad, truly sad.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:55:05 am
content: Quote from: iampoor on November 24, 2015, 12:48:00 amAnyone who thinks this is the doing of the kid has it completely wrong. It's his family, specifically his father, and the company he keeps and the people who attached themselves to this whole thing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:56:25 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 24, 2015, 12:46:04 amYep, I wouldn't pay a cent, let the idiots sue.QuoteI love Office Space!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:02:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 12:56:25 amAnd Las Colinas in English is "The Hills" and the area around it is full of 1 and 2 story office parks.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:03:29 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on November 24, 2015, 12:05:07 amWhat BS about it's not "safe" for him to come home to the US.The kid is a damn celebrity who is welcomed with opened arms wherever he goes, and has invitations up to the wazoo

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:04:05 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 12:55:05 amGood point, I was thinking along the same lines but didnt convey that in my post. Edited!Its so sad when extremist religious nuts take advantage of people......

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:20:50 am
content: The young man is a knobhead with no talent or interest in science whatsoever, and his Dad is an ever bigger knobhead. Feck them, save our sympathies for those more deserving.Peace out, goodnight, and god bless.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:32:47 am
content: Quote from: iampoor on November 24, 2015, 01:04:05 amI would never want to outright ban religion because I believe in that freedom to worship freely (or not at all) is an extremely important aspect of a free nation. I think the Wiccans best said it with "Do what though will, such than you harm none." I think when a religion starts to advocate harm to others, that's the point when the government (unfortunately) has to step in. (I say unfortunately because again, I think governments are way to intrusive into people's lives as it is)

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:34:20 am
content: Quote from: Delta on November 24, 2015, 01:20:50 am(Not directed at you, just loved the use of Feck)

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:39:22 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 24, 2015, 01:32:47 amI completely agree. I am personally a religious person...I just get sick of seeing how the small group of extremist religious people seem to dominate the news....I certainly hope when people hear the term "Christian" or "Muslim" etc. they do not initially associate them with extremists. Seems pretty hard to do given how many coverage the whackjobs are given...

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:47:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 01:03:29 amYes Dave, but without claims like this it makes it a little harder to demand $15M

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:56:59 am
content: Quote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:00:43 am
content: Quote from: iampoor on November 24, 2015, 01:04:05 amThey don't have to be "extremist".Christopher Hitchens was right, religion poisonseverything.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:04:15 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on November 24, 2015, 01:47:55 amOf course, they are very clever. Move overseas, claim you had to "flee" and it's not "safe" to come back etc, and demand damages.Hopefully this gets laughed out of court and backfires on them drastically, but you know, 'murica.I hope Ahmed realises he's being played and does the bolt when he's old enough to legally make his own decisions.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:05:43 am
content: Quote from: Delta on November 24, 2015, 01:20:50 amBut all accounts he does have an interest.Sure he has no skills, but we all started somewhere.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:13:12 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 24, 2015, 01:32:47 amI hate religion, with a passion, it poisons so much in society, it erodes reason in otherwise smart and educated people.But I'd never want to see it banned either. I'll march in the street for your right to believe any batshit crazy thing you want.But yes, when it harms others, especially children, governments have to step in.My hope for Ahmed (and every child) was that he could escape that, but alas not. Certainly not in Qatar. First thing they did was drag him off to Mecca

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:14:31 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 02:00:43 amAnd thats where many of the moderate religious people I know (including myself) will have to disagree.But anyways, since these arguments are pretty well played out, I wont derail the thread about this....carry on.

author: Ampere
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:44:58 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 23, 2015, 10:45:48 pmI like to think that Ahmed really is interested in electronics, but this makes me wonder whether the father convinced him to build a clock to show to his teachers. He might have provided Ahmed with the case, knowing exactly what the teachers would think of his son's project. Ahmed would have been trying to make something to make his father and teachers proud while his father was prepared to take advantage of the inevitable incident. Given the father's history, can you really be surprised? There aren't many ways that you can stuff a clock into a small suitcase without it looking like a bomb, and I think that's what his father was counting on.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:53:25 am
content: Quote from: Ampere on November 24, 2015, 02:44:58 amIt's easy to think that with a cynical hat on after the fact, but I don't think he's that clever, he just capitalised on the event.It's more likely the rumour that Ahmed did it as a prank is true, than any conspiracy theory with the father. We won't ever know though.Either way, a 14yo enthusiast had the chance of a lifetime, but blew it (or had it blown for him, because he's clearly not calling the shots).

author: Ampere
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:25:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 02:53:25 amYou are right. This whole situation was handled poorly by pretty much everyone involved and the only person who was really hurt by this is Ahmed. Even if this started as a prank (I doubt it, but nobody really knows), that's not the kind of thing that should follow a 14-year-old around for the rest of his life.Maybe he'll come back to the US at age 18 and pursue his dream career, but it's more likely that they're filling his head with propaganda right now and he won't even want to come back by then, if they let him return at all.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:46:27 am
content: Quote from: Ampere on November 24, 2015, 03:25:26 amIt started out as a positive thing and he was given the opportunity of a lifetime to go places, make contacts with famous people, and given opportunities others have to work hard and hope for.But sadly, mostly through the fault of his family and those around him have turned him into an object of ridicule.It all could have turned out so very well for Ahmed, but it's only gone downhill and will continue to do so. It didn't have to be that way. oh well, such is life.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:47:55 am
content: If it will get to court we will know at lest what realy happened and were the school/police actions justified. So far people and the media project their biases. This what happened with other politicized cases that went to court.

author: rickselectricalprojects
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 04:25:20 am
content: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/23/us/ahmed-mohamed-clock-letters-demand-apologies/index.htmlwow.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 04:30:51 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 03:47:55 amIt'll probably turn out to be cheaper to settle, and we'll never know anything more than has already been reported.Quote from: eevblogI'm truly saddened by the way this has turned out. I'd still like to think that none of this is any fault of Ahmed's, that he's a good kid who got shafted by a system of inflexible idiots. I was glad when he received numerous opportunities to turn that bad situation into a massive set of positive opportunities. But, now that there's lawyers and multi-million dollar lawsuits involved, it just gives me a sour feeling.I have to wonder if he does get a big settlement, how the finances of the school district and the educations of other kids may be negatively impacted.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 04:44:37 am
content: Yeah, it feels like one big carefully planned scam. They were going to return home anyhow, so why not sue for good bye? I guess they've learned the American way well

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:06:09 am
content: Would that be +71.8 dB$?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:44:38 am
content: How did America get so screwed up with this "law suit culture" it has going on.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:49:41 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 24, 2015, 05:44:38 amWe need more judges and magistrates like Judge Judy. She doesn't take shit!

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:53:03 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 24, 2015, 05:44:38 amMany of our politicians are lawyers.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:08:01 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 24, 2015, 05:44:38 amThe potential to make money has been the downfall of many men.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:11:24 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 24, 2015, 04:44:37 amI'm pretty sure that:a) Ahmed was born in Americaandb) His father is from Sudan, so Qatar is not "returning home"If you are going to slur, at least get your facts in order.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:18:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 06:11:24 amThat was not my intent at all. I have noting against his nationality.I have everything against lawsuits like that. I really hope he looses has has to eat lawyer fees.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:23:58 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 06:11:24 amHe is basically right, the family is going back to its home culture.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:28:39 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 06:23:58 amAhmed's culture is America.And his father immigrated to America in the late 80's, almost 30 years ago.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:34:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 06:28:39 amMost Americans seem to associate their home culture with wherever their relatives immigrated from.Thats one thing Ive never understood, and yes, Im an American. O0

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:34:30 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 06:28:39 amThat got political real fast. A lot of immigrants don't accept local culture and do everything to cultivate and maintain their home culture (whatever loose definition we want to apply here). There is nothing wrong with this one way or the other, but blindly saying that they've accepted American culture is incorrect.I know of a decent number of kids that wanted to go back to their parent's home country after growing up.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 07:26:51 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 24, 2015, 01:02:18 amI used to work there in the building next to Las Colinas Movie Studios in Royal Ln. Our neighbors were Fox Sports, but I think now they produce some Fox News from thereRoyal Ln and McCarthur Blvd was the worse intersection as in prone to accidents back then, hopefully they fixed that.Before that building we were next to the Boys Scouts of America building in Walnut Hill and near the Microsoft building which I believe it's called One Source Virtual.I had lunch at that Benigans, not sure about the other ones. But I did prefer the MonteCristo's at Humperdinks in North West Highway (Dallas I believe) past the shooting range and the liquor stores. There was a Humperdinks in Irving but their food wasn't as good.Good times in TX, got a SWMBO from thereNot really scared but Texan Girls are quite a handful, not for the weak.I think I did take a gondola tour at the Las Colinas canals at least once. It was a happening place and a lot of plans to bring a train station and a lot of stuff but that never happened, the millennium center is cool at all with it's people mover that never connected it to the airport as planed.But I guess I was a Yuppie among other Yuppies, although of course I didn't consider myself one at the time but since I did go to Cool River (which btw is next to the McDonalds that was there for a long time) So I definitely was a Yuppie in retrospect.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 07:36:44 am
content: So it turned out to be a well-planned media action.Play minority victim, blame everybody that contributes to society.If possible, especially the white hetero man.And then the rest got uncovered: High-level politicians, from Kenia, Sudan and Qatar, multimilionnaire's money and religious hate propagandists.Nothing new.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 07:44:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 06:28:39 amYou formed a very strong opinion on this subject based on very limited information.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 07:57:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 01:03:29 am+1QuoteSo if it's unsafe environment, why do they want to return? Especially to the same place??

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 08:01:56 am
content: Quote from: Ampere on November 24, 2015, 02:44:58 amNah. No way, sorry. There is not a chance in hell that a 14 year old would think anyone would be proud of that piece of crap. A 9 year old, maybe.The intent was clearly to cause a debacle, the only question is how much was father and how much was son?PS. I'd like to see them try a similar stunt in Qatar...

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 08:05:14 am
content: Quote from: Delta on November 24, 2015, 08:01:56 am2 beheadings later?

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 08:37:38 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 24, 2015, 07:51:56 amJust the tip of the iceberg:http://www.rightsidenews.com/life-and-science/culture-wars/muslim-inbreeding-impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society/

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 08:39:29 am
content: Quote from: GK on November 24, 2015, 08:37:38 amPlease tell me you are not serious.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 09:09:36 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 24, 2015, 08:39:29 am*Yawn*That was just one of many sites reprinting the original article from Europe News:http://en.europenews.dk/-Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society-78170.html

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 09:39:00 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 24, 2015, 09:21:15 amWhat the hell are you babbling about?Inbreeding is prevalent in the Muslim world (marriages between 1st cousins). Inbreeding has numerous deleterious consequences. This is a cultural malady that just happens to be somewhat backwards. The extent to which inbreeding has "harmed the gene pool among Muslims" (words of articles original author) is open to debate, but the fact that the cultural practice is particularly common in the Muslim world isn't.Incidentally, I also find the widespread Muslim cultural practices of child marriage, female genital mutilation and honour killing pretty f&#@ing reprehensible and backward. Sincerely hope that I'm not offending anyone.http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/77421/1/WHO_RHR_12.38_eng.pdfhttp://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/10/02/sharia-law-has-led-to-the-legislation-of-child-marriage-in-6-countries.html

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 09:40:04 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 24, 2015, 08:39:29 amsays the biggest fan of leftsidenews.comQuote from: Delta on November 24, 2015, 08:01:56 amCreate some drama, like his sister did before.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:09:34 am
content: Quote from: GK on November 24, 2015, 09:39:00 amSomehow I take this sentence with a grain of salt.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:09:41 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 24, 2015, 06:34:30 amNope, just your imagination.QuoteAmazing how you are able to put words into my mouth.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:16:21 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 07:44:57 amIt's not opinion, I'm simply stating (what I believe are) facts. Ahmed was born and raised in the US, and, at least at the time of his arrest, went to a secular US public school, not some Islamic school. So it appears like Ahmed was very much raised on pretty mainstream US culture (not including their religion).And his father did immigrate to the US almost 30 years ago, another fact. Beyond that fact I implied nothing.I was simply refuting ataradov's silly statement that " They were going to return home anyhow".AmericaisAhmed's home, and his dad has lived there for almosthalf of his life.So putting some factual perspective on that seemed warranted.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:29:39 am
content: Quote from: Delta on November 24, 2015, 08:01:56 amWhy not? Some 14yo's are proud of flashing a LED on an Arduino. About the same skill level required - super noob hobbyist level 0.We all start somewhere.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:31:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 10:16:21 amI suppose you are true about the facts, the only thing I do not believe is "pretty mainstream US culture"In our country, many of the self-excluding immigrants choose to speak their old language at home, have a sattelite to only look at foreign TV stations, do not attend mainstream hobbies or sports, separate their sisters with violence, hate gays and jews with passion.Completely different from what is (was) called mainstream-EU-culture, like expierienced by us (and the other part of the immigrants).And this is even not in one of the no-go-caliphates they built inside Europe.I saw this happen with poor and rich kids, and also saw it not happen with rich and poor kids, don't think it's correlated.I think it has more to do with their purpose in immigrating, who sent them, witch network they already belonged.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:56:11 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 24, 2015, 10:31:21 amYou know I'm talking relative. Probably as mainstream as can be expected given his father is an Imam of some local note.Attending a secular public school speaks volumes in this instance, given that there is a very prominent Islamic school right in Irving it seems.http://www.islamicschoolofirving.org/

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 11:03:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 10:56:11 amYes, but I was surprised how different their (same selection as above) world is from ours (also same selection)And now even more, internet further reduced the need to communicate with unselected other people.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 11:19:38 am
content: So back to Ahmed and his clock...It seems obvious he has very little electronics skill, but by many accounts it was common for him to bring electronic stuff he had built/hacked/torn down/whatever to school. He was "that nerdy kid".I'm surprised that in the aftermath of the "he didn't built it" viral videos about the Radio Shack clock, he would have hunkered down and did a crash course insomethingin order to present a better image of himself and at least try to live up to the (incorrect) superlatives that we being bestowed upon him by the media.Yet he doesn't seem to have had any game plan to do that and handle the "so what else have you built?" questions.Although I haven't been closely following the story, so could have missed something.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 11:57:45 am
content: QuoteTo be fair, as a 10-11 year old I did pretty much the same thing (took out a clock, put it in a crappy box, soldered on a few wires to a battery and buttons), brought it to school, and "showed off". In retrospect I was kind of silly, but I liked to tinker, and it was a different era and I was a weird kid. As such I think that this could have been a scam/planned/... or it might not have been. Also, I did not claim it to be my invention, design or anything.That being said, whether it was intended or not is irrelevant now, seeing as they intend to milk the whole affair for money and attention vigorously and embrace the role of a professional victim.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 11:58:55 am
content: Quote from: jancumps on November 24, 2015, 10:09:34 am1000reported,cases of female genital mutilation in the UK in just three months!:http://www.theahafoundation.org/increase-in-fgm-in-england/And I'm pretty damn sure that this isn't a contemporary Christian tradition.In the US, the official DOJ domestic violence statistics for women murdered for reasons of maintaining family "honor" is 23-27 killings annually. It is widely accepted that this statistic under-estimates the true number of women murdered:http://www.theahafoundation.org/doj-report-released-highlighting-honor-violence/"The report found that the vast majority of honor violence cases occur because victims are considered too Westernized"The offenders and victims of honor violence are predominately Muslim. Approximately 3 women are killed every day in America in incidents classified as domestic violence. About 1% of the American population is now Muslim. The (conservative) statistic of 23-27 honor killings annually already over represents the Muslim population. The stats where available indicate the same trend throughout Europe - violence against women is significantly higher amongst immigrant Muslim populations. So the problem isn't just a generic domestic violence issue that plagues all western populations and peoples of various cultural and religious backgrounds equally.As for forced and child marriage, where it actually occurs in the west it spans a variety of cultural/religious backgrounds, but Muslims are still over-represented in this revolting statistic.http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/opinion/americas-child-marriage-problem.html?_r=0http://www.tahirih.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/REPORT-Tahirih-Survey-on-Forced-Marriage-in-Immigrant-Communities-in-the-United-States.pdf

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:01:02 pm
content: Post deleted by me. Was repeating stuff already posted.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:08:03 pm
content: From the pages of the New York Times, a reputable newspaper:"A man who founded a Muslim American television station to help fight Muslim stereotypes is to appear on Wednesday in a suburban Buffalo court on charges that he decapitated his wife last week."http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/nyregion/18behead.html

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 12:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 24, 2015, 10:31:21 amI live in an area that according to a few (non UK) sources is not only a "no-go-caliphate" but the largest in the north of England. Within half an hours walking distance over 90% of the local population are "white British", there are 5 purpose built churches that can hold hundreds each (even if they don't), a large purpose built gurdwara that can hold hundreds, and one smallish pub converted into a mosque. I've never felt like I can't walk the area safe and to the best of my knowledge neither have any of my friends no matter their race or religion, women don't have to be scared of a backlash from Muslims over how they dress, homosexuals can walk around making a big deal about being gay without getting special abuse from Muslims, I have no problem buying alcohol or non halal food, and in fact because of the relatively large Sikh population there is even one shop that has a dedicated "definitely not halal or kosher or anything like that" meat section. None of the supermarkets or big American franchise junk food outlets do that. Oh and it's run by a British-Pakistani family...I'm not saying those places don't exist anywhere in Europe, I haven't checked them all. I'm just saying that some reports of there existence and/or extent are definitely exaggerated.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:12:06 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on November 24, 2015, 11:57:45 amOnce again, I remind that "they" most likely does not include Ahmed himself. He's a 14yo kid.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:34:31 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 12:57:30 pmGood for you. The British jihadis are too busy in Syria, thousands of them.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 01:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 01:34:31 pmI wasn't talking about jihadis. Yup all jihadis are Muslim but that doesn't mean all Muslims are jihadis. In exactly the same way that if you look at right wing terrorism in the US or Europe they're all Christians that doesn't mean all Christians are terrorists.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:10:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 01:45:02 pmI didn't say that. Please don't make straw man arguments.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 02:10:46 pmWhat strawman? I didn't build any strawmen. I just responded to your snarky comment as an aside pointing out that no religious group is any better when it comes to religious extremists when you look at the stats. I wasn't trying to present a counter argument to anything you said, I didn't even call out your straight up lie regarding the numbers*. I would of course love it if you could point out where I did make a logical fallacy but I think this may be just another case of you claiming fallacies where there are none. Sometimes I'm not sure if that's a genuine mistake or by design. <-- Oh and that's not an ad hom either btw.*700 believed to have travelled to try and support IS, circa 70 believed to still be in Syria or Iraq.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 02:51:52 pm
content: QuoteDepends on what you call extremist I guess. A christian is apparently considered an extremist when he goes picketing a funeral, protests in front of an abortion clinic etc. To the best of my knowledge there are currently no countries where you can be beheaded with a blessing from your state official for converting away from christianity, marrying outside of your religion or having a blog filled with naugty thoughts. Also, while western countries arguably get hints from some kind of religious stuff embedded into their legal system, there are no countries whose legal system is quite literally built around a christian religious text.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:04:48 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on November 24, 2015, 02:51:52 pmI'm going purely by the ones who commit bombings and mass shootings etc inspired (by their interpretation) by their religion of choice. If you go purely by how they would like their chosen interpretation of their chosen faith imposed on others and not the actions they are happy to take to try and get that result the numbers are probably even higher. I'd guess over half of any given religious or political group would actually want everyone to agree with them and act how they want them to.Also personally I've never heard anyone claim just protesting made someone extremist*, but what they're trying to achieve with said protest might do. Muslims with similarly anti-secular/pro theocracy views are definitely counted as extremists when protesting but not because they're protesting but because of what they want to achieve through the protests.*Well apart from maybe when it came to the Occupy movement.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:28:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 02:33:49 pmI pointed out that many of your jiadis troublemakers are busy in Syria and you responded to a straw man argument that all Muslims are terrorists.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 02:33:49 pmThe argument that all religions have the same level involvement in violent terrorism is false.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 02:33:49 pmMy statement was very simple, many Brits with violent Jihadis tendencies are now busy somewhere else. This is a simple fact. One day they will return.Denying global jihadi terror is silly.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:40:56 pm
content: QuoteIt's well beyond silly, it's idiotic and quite dangerous.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 03:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 03:28:21 pmNo I didn't. I didn't even make an argument against, I basically pointed out it's not just Muslims and claiming otherwise is a lie. Claiming thousands was also a lie. Responding to a strawman while making no arguments is now a strawman argument?QuoteNope, in Christian majority countries like the US it's Christians who kill the most. In Muslims majority countries it's Muslims, Hindu it's Hindus, Buddhist it's Buddhists etc. Check up your own and mine countries stats on domestic terrorism. Just because Fox News doesn't call them terrorists if they even report on it doesn't mean they aren't.QuoteThousands was a lie, by orders of magnitude.And why are strawmen OK when you do it? Where did I deny that global jihadi terror exists? Yup, nowhere.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 04:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 03:44:38 pmYet another strawman. We are talking terrorism, not any killing.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 03:44:38 pmhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2845860/Labour-MP-claims-2-000-Britons-fighting-jihad-Iraq-Syria-two-UK-citizens-killed-fighting-ISIS.htmlQuote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 03:44:38 pmVery good, we are getting somewhere. ;-)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 04:29:31 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 03:04:48 pmIn my childhood the folks inclined to acts of violence against larger crowds were called "radicals" - either religiously motivated or not. With the new developments of human idiocy and blood thirst, the denomination was taken to the next level.So yeah, IMHO someone trying to convince others of their opinions via picketing and protesting may be a radical perhaps, but not an extremist - until the moment they take violent action.However, anyone that terrifies the population should be called "terrorist": and I include the complete idiots (Christians, atheists or whatever) that fueled the current state of horror in public schools here in the US by shooting freely at their peers. And that is how I tie the whole thing to Ahmed's story: an initial overreaction motivated by terrorists that was abused by opportunists of all kinds.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 04:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 04:26:00 pmCherry picking to make a strawman where there is none:Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 03:44:38 pmCherry picking lines out of context is a logical fallacy btw.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 03:44:38 pmhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2845860/Labour-MP-claims-2-000-Britons-fighting-jihad-Iraq-Syria-two-UK-citizens-killed-fighting-ISIS.htmlQuoteQuote from your source. He doesn't back up that claim either. Best to check what they say before you link them. That 500-700 is everyone who has attempted it too, most haven't got there.QuoteSo you admit I never did so have admitted to doing what you accused me of.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:08:17 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 04:56:23 pmI am not sure about that, I was just trying to break the loop and move on.Frankly, your statements suggest to me that you think that all religions have the same level of involvement in terror and just the same that we have global jihadi terror movement, we also has let's say a global Buddhist terror movement.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 05:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 05:08:17 pmThat's a failure of communication on one of our parts. My original post which you replied to was just pointing out that at least one of the "no-go-caliphates" aren't actually there. It had nothing to do with jihadis. And later I made no comment on global terrorism, I specifically pointed out domestic.I do believe they all have the same propensity towards terrorist acts due to the inherent supremacist views of such systems, but Christians have the numbers and sufficient control of the world to not need global terrorism to get what they want and Buddhists just don't have numbers to be able to try. If you reversed the numbers of Buddhists and Muslims in the world and gave Buddhists (or any other faith, sect, or cult from Quakers to Scientologists) the same sort of global distribution outside of their traditional homelands I do believe they'd be doing the same to try and take the number 1 spot (in terms of power, money etc) from Christianity.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 05:29:36 pmThis is were we disagree, which is fine.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 07:29:13 pm
content: Quote...and unfortunately the list is long and distinguished.Including some for which I used to have a lot more respect over the last couple of decades. But they seem to have sacrificed their own integrity in order to push an agenda that if you look at it from juuuust the right angle it may appear as it is serving the "greater good" (ie getting kinds involved with science of course).There is no need to name names, but from "great clock Ahmed" to being invited to the Google science fair and having him even in the same zipcode with kids (some younger than him) that actually DID build/invent/created something was and is and will be an insult to everyone that has ever spent any time actually building/inventing /creating something.But the media likes headlines and personalities like publicity and joining the current mediea wave...almost no mater what the excuse.Now I'll stop before I let you guys and gals know how Ireallyfeel......

author: MikeW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 08:37:44 pm
content: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/3u355w/my_mit_application_video_this_year/Disclaimer: My views on this issue are not entirely represented by this gif, it just made me smirk a little.And I thought it would throw a little fuel on the fire here.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:00:54 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 24, 2015, 04:26:00 pmWe are talking neither. Last I looked this thread was supposed to be about the Ahmed situation.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: MikeW on November 24, 2015, 08:37:44 pmAnd just in case anyone was not aware, MIT never offered him a scholarship.

author: MikeW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:13:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 10:05:02 pmI do share your position of defending the lad, and it is true MIT did not in fact offer him a scholarship, but the post does have a point regarding the general reaction.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on November 24, 2015, 07:29:13 pmWelcome to the real world, happensevery day.Some people like Ahmed get lucky and get all the opportunities with no work or talent involved.Too bad those around him pissed it all away for him.What is an insult is suing for $15M and potentially taking that money (and hence resources) away from other students.I don't understand why people are so willing to berate Ahmed for becoming a media darling. It doesn't hurt anyone else.QuoteErr, yeah, that's how the media works, they produce stories on things that make people want to read them.No one would read the newspaper if it was constantly stories about A student Joe Average working hard and getting into MIT.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2015, 10:15:50 pm
content: Quote from: MikeW on November 24, 2015, 10:13:24 pmSure, the media got it wrong because they have no clue how trivially easy it is to do what Ahmed did, and that is deserving of ridicule.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 03:23:57 am
content: Clocks had been invented years before he was born.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 04:07:08 am
content: Quote from: GK on November 24, 2015, 09:09:36 amI did work with a young Pakistani guy before that said he doesn't bother dating because his parents had already taken care of arranging his marriage to one of his cousins before he was born.He said it's not taboo over there like it is here.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 04:09:07 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 25, 2015, 04:07:08 amNot all dating must lead to marriage. There are other nice benefitsAlso, sad, very sad.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 04:10:38 am
content: Quote from: daqq on November 24, 2015, 11:57:45 amI remember in third or fourth grade bringing a solar cell connected to a motor to school which seemed to be interesting to some of the students. Also brought a small ammeter connected to it as well at one point. It was just fun to make the needle move around when you waved your hand over it.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 04:22:06 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 24, 2015, 05:29:36 pmNot for long...http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/04/02/397042004/muslim-population-will-surpass-christians-this-century-pew-saysBirth rates among white "Christianized" nations have dropped off significantly but not so much in Muslim countries.In broad numbers, statistically people of Caucasian European descent are already a minority in the world with Han Chinese being the world's majority ethnicity.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 04:45:49 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 25, 2015, 04:07:08 amHopefully they had a way to know his gender.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 05:24:22 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 25, 2015, 04:45:49 amWell I assume ultrasound equipment has made its way to Pakistan by now.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2015, 09:41:54 am
content: Quote from: zapta on November 25, 2015, 04:45:49 amThey are good at 'predicting' that. The firstborn (they let live) is a boy. Also no taboo in various regions.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 08:43:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 10:05:02 pmI don't think many got the details right in the initial news report.MIT did not even invite him. It was a misleading report. An MIT professor invited him to visit the school.Search for "Ahmed clock MIT" and you will find plenty of sources.If you work for IBM and invited your kid brother to see the lab. It doesn't mean IBM invited your kid brother to see their lab, nor should he expect a job from IBM in the near future.Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2015, 12:55:05 amYou are certainly correct. His sister had bomb problems at the same school and had her suspension(s) too. So it is indeed a family thing. However since she was a minor, and they (the family) refused to release the reports, the rest of the world is left to speculate was it a clock too or was it something else.Search for "Ahmed clock sister" and you will find plenty of sources.Tick tock tick tock... What is in that make up case? How come your lipstick is ticking? Oh don't worry, it is merely to remind me, time to powder my face...

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 09:12:26 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 24, 2015, 06:34:30 amSome "went back to their home country" because of the lack of opportunities here in the USA right now. I know an Indian, a Korean, and two Chinese all "went back" for job reasons.If they do not want to give up their old ways of life and become American, why are they here? There is everything wrong with the concept of coming to America and don't want to be an American. To be an American is not a religious thing, nor is it a race thing - It is a mindset.In the USA, we had German Towns, Little Italy, China Town... Most were transit points (except China Towns which existed due to some racist law in the early days). The second generation leave and live elsewhere and became Americans. Most (China towns, Little Italy's...) are now tourist spots. But now foreign language and foreign signs are popping up where it shouldn't. except when I am visiting tourist area, I avoid buying anything in a USA store that is not label in English and only in English. If a store chooses to serve those who divide, I have no interest in supporting them.B.O. days, to be an American, you have to sworn to defend the U.S. Constitution, learn U.S. History, so forth. In the last few years, that is now no longer done.If you don't want to ride a bike, don't join the bicycle club. If you want to come join us, then be one of us. Until you become one of us, you are not one of us but instead you are an intruder.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 10:01:14 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on November 30, 2015, 09:12:26 amIt is actually done. I'm not sure about defending the constitution, since I have no idea if naturalized citizens are even allowed to join the military, but there is a basic English and U.S. history exams/tests and swearing in procedure.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 10:20:50 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 30, 2015, 10:01:14 amYou don't even have to be a citizen to join up, in fact working certain military jobs is one way to help get naturalised.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 11:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 30, 2015, 10:01:14 amThe only thing anaturalized citizen cannot dois to be thePresident of the USA. Anything else that a "citizen by birth" can do, a naturalized citizen can do.re: "I'm not sure about defending the constitution..."Yes, "defending the Constitution" was part of the oath when I became an American.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on November 30, 2015, 10:20:50 amIn fact, many joined the military just to acquire to becoming a citizen. Some did not live through the experience. They want to be American so much they are willing died for Americans.This is where I think the French did the right thing were USA failed. If you died in the French Foreign Legion, you are French by blood spilled "Français par le sang versé". The USA does not have such a law.I believe we should adopt a "Américaine par le sang versé" law. Right now, if the applicant died as a US soldier, the soldier's family lost their tie to the USA. Up until 2013's change of policy, the dead soldier's family even faced deportation. This is appalling. Some one who died serving the USA should be buried as American if he so desired, and his family should immediately be Americans if they so desire.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2015, 03:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on November 30, 2015, 11:53:39 pm<troll modus on>Yes you can, just buy a birth certificate.<troll modus off>

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 03:16:35 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on December 01, 2015, 03:47:38 pmWhich makes me wonder, if the VP was a naturalized citizen and the President died, I guess he would have to stay the VP and the next person in line would have to take over.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 04:30:50 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on December 02, 2015, 03:16:35 amFrom Wikipedia:------------------By the time of their inauguration, the President and Vice President must be:natural born citizensat least 35 years oldinhabitants of the United States for at least fourteen years.In this 1944 poster, Franklin Roosevelt (left) successfully campaigned for a fourth term. He was the only President who served more than two terms.Eligibility for holding the office of President and Vice-President were modified by subsequent amendments:The Twelfth Amendment (1804) requires the Vice-President to meet all of the qualifications of being President.The Twenty-second Amendment (1951) prevents a President from being elected more than twice.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 07:58:38 am
content: Quote from: zapta on December 02, 2015, 04:30:50 amSo good they decided that, so now the son/wife/brother of the ex. gets a chance too.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:27:41 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on December 02, 2015, 07:58:38 amEgo G.H.W Bush, G.W. Bush, John Ellis Bush (JEB)At one point there were rumors that Mrs. Obama would run for President.I guess there are no such rules in Russia about re-running later. So that's why we had Putin, Medvedev, Putin. If Putin's time runs out again, I wonder if they'll try the same a third time?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:35:54 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on December 03, 2015, 12:27:41 amMedvedev already extended presidential term from 4 to 6 years, just for Putin

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:38:26 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 03, 2015, 12:35:54 amI heard that Medvedev's first day as President, he offered the office back to Putin rather than have him sit in the Prime Minister's office. I don't know if it was accepted or not.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 11:49:32 am
content: It can always get worse.The thing called democracy in our country is owned by an unelected family, with aristocratic titles, straight descents from the guy that did the Congo Genocide.He organises a party in the middle of the country every year, heavyly protected by all kind of armed guards and weapons: guns, explosives, tanks, helicopters and F16's.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 06:48:31 pm
content: The Australian version of Ahmed Mohamed

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 07:31:04 pm
content: n00bs. They can't beat the Master Genius Remi Gaillard

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 10:18:07 pm
content: I thought the latest "clock boy" was a Sikh kid (at 'murricans who don't know the difference between Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims ). Hey, the lad is called Singh, not Ahmed or Mohammed. Big clue!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3366055/Texan-Sikh-boy-12-arrested-threatening-blow-school-says-people-thought-bomb-just-backpack.htmlIn this case the lad simply had a backpack and another dickwad schoolkid accused him of carrying a bomb.It's just another case of insane zero tolerance, which is what I thought the original clock-boy Ahmed case was until the liberal media turned him into their NASA genius next Einstein and his dad and islamist fanatic entourage blew it out of all proportion.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 10:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 23, 2015, 10:18:07 pmIt was the perfect media story!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 11:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 23, 2015, 10:18:07 pmIndian Sikh = Turban and long hairIndian Hindu = Dot (not feather)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 04:44:42 pm
content: Clock boy is back in town for summer vacation and the busy-body father is suing the Texas school district on his behalf for religious discrimination.'The suit, filed in federal court on behalf of by his father, claims the Irving Independent School District and the city west of Dallas had discriminated against the teen because of his religion, which it said was a factor in his arrest.'http://www.aol.com/article/2016/08/08/muslim-teen-ahmed-mohamed-arrested-clock-sues-texas-school/21447211/

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 05:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 06:09:55 amWot he said.Maybe there was a hidden motive behind this but in most 'free' countries we have a presumption of innocent until proven guilty and I for one am perfectly happy to take the same view as Dave, the kid is a hobbyist who deserves our support until he's proven to have had maliciousw intent.From a scant reading, it would seem even if there was malicious intent, it wasn't Ahmed's.Hell, I've done an awful lot worse than him and been excluded from school for it for only a couple of days with no police involvement.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 05:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on December 23, 2015, 11:32:18 pmGet it right ... Sikh = carries a dagger, wears steel bracelet , Turban to cover hair, a wooden comb and long pants. Last name : Singh ( Lion) for men and Kaur (Princess) for women.So they are easy to spot ....As for the Hindu dot ? The Bindi is a red dot used to mark the center of creation ( third eye ). Most married women wear it, but it is not mandatory ( contrary to Sikh attributes which ARE mandatory) . Even men wear it.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 05:10:02 pm
content: Ugh, deleted, didn't see the start date.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 09:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on August 08, 2016, 05:07:09 pmHere at least some of the local governments advertise on public transit and radios: "See something, say something."Most high-school teacher would not be able to tell what it is but a jumbo of wires. Giving how schools have been and are targets, it would have beenderelict of dutyhad the teacher not called the police on when something he/she found is unsure but suspicious.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 04:43:12 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 08, 2016, 09:09:47 pmSo, the authorities arrested him, investigated, fingerprinted, photographed him and after they'd decided there was no charge to answer, the school still excluded him.Yeah, seems fair to me, not at all an over-reaction.Probably best to arm the hall monitors just in case they see someone with an F-91W eh...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 06:34:36 am
content: Quote from: CJay on August 09, 2016, 04:43:12 amI don't follow your logic. The bar for being expelled from a school is much lower than for being criminally indicted.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 08:01:17 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 08, 2016, 09:09:47 pmHere in oz it was "be alert, not alarmed!"

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 08:31:08 am
content: So, in a country where countless bigots seem to rejoyce parading with their assault riffles (see the images of the latest Republican convention) a kid playing with electronics is treated like a potential terrorist. You can not make this up!

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 09:08:17 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 09, 2016, 06:34:36 amMy point is that from everything I have heard and read about this kid and this case, he did nothing wrong, he just showed a home electronics project to someone who didn't understand what it was and then over reacted, causing a huge shit storm.A little rational thought would have gone a long way and saved a bucket load of pain for everyone involved.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 09:18:31 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 09, 2016, 08:01:17 amWe have similar here, but the Met at least display some rather typical Britishness with 'It's probably nothing, but..'I'm more likely to be killed by an asteroid than a terrorist so I'm OK with the security of my country as it stands and feel it'd probably be OK to let it slip a little.(And I speak as someone who lives only a few miles from three separate terrorist attacks that were paid for with funds raised by American citizens)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 10:50:25 am
content: Quote from: CJay on August 09, 2016, 09:08:17 amAnd that was the story and what everyone was saying for the first day or two. Then info about his dad and his sister came to light, and that blogger discovered the model of Radio Shack clock it was, and then wham, everyone turned on him.In the end it was a sad story, he (somewhat predictably) ended up giving up his dream of going to MIT and left the country being dragged by his religious nutter father. Although he clearly had no real skills, I was hoping he could escape all that and follow his interest in tech and take up the opportunities luckily afforded to him by his new found infamy.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2016, 01:16:39 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 09, 2016, 10:50:25 amIf anything is predictable in life, this is one such eventhttp://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/08/08/clock-boy-mohamed-files-lawsuit-alleging-discrimination-texas-school-city/I wondered when this family of nutters would be back to play the islamphobe card and screw the taxpayers for money. Presumably that's more important than to grab all the offers made by all the staggeringly naive liberal tech companies who wanted to believe his retarded storyI can't say for certain that his Father put him up to this, but sending his muslim kid off to school with something that teachers would clearly freak out over, sounds very much like a set up to me. This is the same school system that routinely expel kids for pointing a finger and making pew-pew noises, or eating a pop tart into the shape of a gun...That he later returns with his hand out, knowing full well that he has a chance, clinches it.I can't believe people are still falling for this shit.This is just like the Syrian who pushes his wife onto the railway tracks in Hungary, and all the press coverage the next day is about Police brutality

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 12:28:58 am
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 09, 2016, 01:16:39 pmAFAIK there is absolutely no evidence that his father knew he took this to school.I used to take stuff I'd built to school and didn't tell my parents about it.QuoteHe's a 14yo kid, he's clearly not calling the shots.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 12:34:06 am
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 09, 2016, 01:16:39 pmThe story was certainly blown out of all proportion. It was obvious to anyone with electronics knowledge that he was a rank beginner hobbyist taking apart an off the shelf clock.He certainly didn't deserve all the lauding he got as some sort of boy genius.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 12:40:37 am
content: I suspect the kid knew full well the clock would raise red flags with the teachers. In one of the interviews he even says, "I put it in this case so it wouldn't be easily mistaken for a bomb." So he knew full well the risks of taking it to school. FFS his computer teacher even told him to put it away and not show it to anyone else! Which, of course he didn't do.I think he was trying to be edgy and freak out the teachers or something and it backfired on him. I don't think he quite grasped how much trouble he could get in, so when he was arrested he played the "But, but, it's just a homemade clock!" card. Then his father decided to milk it into a lawsuit.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 12:50:17 am
content: Quote from: timb on August 10, 2016, 12:40:37 amThat's by far the most plausible scenario.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 12:53:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 10, 2016, 12:46:06 amI'm not sure if you went to school in the US or not, but here everything changed in schools started after Columbine in 1999. It got worse after 9/11. Keep in mind this kid's parents are Islamic Fundamentalists as well, so I'm sure there was already some stigma surrounding Ahmed, which I'm sure he was aware of.I used to make explosives and detonators and stuff as a kid too, but I would never bring any of it to school (not even the detonators). That would just be asking for trouble. (Plus I learned my lesson in third grade after bringing my pocket knife to school! I was carving a design into a branch I found on the ground and almost got suspended for it.)And this was in the early 90's!

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 01:03:38 am
content: Quote from: timb on August 10, 2016, 12:40:37 amActually at the time I figured the dad put him up to it because he already had a new school lined up (because the American school is racist and islamophobic - the contradiction that term is). So he can let his son go out "with a bang"Teacher #1 knew his stuff and told him to put it away. I would imagine if the kid was white he would have reported him right away, but because of the "sensitivites of a certain community" he kept his head low.Not good enough, let's find a typical lefty female English teacher - technically illiterate and easy to dupe. Sure enough, it worked (though Ahmed had to go out of his way and find a mains outlet to plug the fake bomb into).The whole thing is an utter scam. Typical of the religion of peace we have clockboys dad demanding millions upon millions for a fucking 3 day suspension from school when he already had a new madrassa lined up for his progeny.As has been said, with the insane offers of internships with the Silicon Valley lefty elite that boy would have been made. But he preferred to learn how to pray to Allah instead. Perhaps because he knows fuck all about anything except what his dad and the Koran tells him to do. Certainly nothing about science.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 01:13:20 am
content: This whole situation is sad really. I did not realize the kid was actually dragged back to the middle east. He'll probably be forced to join ISIS or something.Whether or not his whole stunt was to seek attention or not I think he was mistreated regardless. The whole situation was blown out of proportion. Pretty sure if it was a real bomb he would not be trying to show it to people. "Hey guys check out my bomb project, stay after school to see it work!"

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 01:28:24 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 10, 2016, 01:20:59 amYes. The problem is the TSA is tasked with treating everyone exactly the same. So a big fat old middle class wholesome american family, grandma, pops, ma and the kids and grandkids - if one of them makes a "bomb joke" the TSA go into overdrive. It's not enough that they force them through ridiculous pantomime bomb detections, etc. The whole scam is making billions for the TSA contractors (Halliburton?)Now why there is such a thing as the TSA when Israel has been through this shit for decades - and has caught terrorists every time by targeting them specifically and not their own people - I don't know?

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 01:36:41 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 10, 2016, 01:20:59 amYeah and it's sadly somewhat like this in Canada too though not as extreme. Harper was quite extreme at the whole "anti terrorism" stuff. There is even a hotline you can call if you think your neighbor is a terrorist. lol. It's called the barbaric act or something like that. I forget. I just laughed when I heard about it because I thought it was satire, then it turned out to actually be real. When I went to Halifax there was actually a sign at the airport saying not to use the word bomb, gun, or any other related wording or talk or joke about anything related to terrorism. Kinda sad that society has become that sensitive to the subject. This is exactly what the arabs want.Then there's the whole other side of the spectrum:http://www.reddit.com/r/unexpectedjihad.Freaking hilarious content there. (may be offensive to some)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 03:08:10 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on August 10, 2016, 01:03:38 amHe's 14 years old!He did not decide anything, his parents did.I hoped all along (as I would for any 14yo kid who shows an interest in tech) that he could use his new found fame to actually escape that stuff, but sadly that wasn't the case.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 04:06:35 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 10, 2016, 01:36:41 amNot really because the link does not work, here is the correct one' (you had an extra period)http://www.reddit.com/r/unexpectedjihadbut not sure what I am looking other than a collection of videos with crazy endings?For example what is the purpose of the ending of this video?It looks like a guy helping someone, why make an insulting ending? I do not get it other than think the editor is an asshole. Syrians are just like everyone else, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Looks like this video is of a good one but tries to make it look like he is a bad one?Since this is political, I lived in a city that has 10,000s of arabs in it (not Muslims). Anytime I had an interaction with them it was very friendly if money was going to their pocket. Very rude if no money to their pocket. This happened many times, I just got to the point I expected it. Nothing to do with religion, it has to do with the way they are brought up fighting each other in the middle east and their feelings towards money. They learn to be that way to survive unfortunately. It made life so miserable I had to move (one was my neighbor, meanest person I ever met). As a side note, there are just as many Mexicans in the city and they are just as friendly when money goes their way, BUT they are just as friendly if not. Both groups are Christians, so in that city (El Cajon, Calif) there were the good, the bad, and the ugly (and one religion). I think we should drive Dave crazy and start a topic on sharia law (that is what I am afraid of). Now to start counting the hours before Dave locks this topic.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 04:47:38 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 19, 2015, 04:14:41 amThe family moved to Qatar. And they are now bring a lawsuit against the school district.And in other news, the Portland Oregon school district is under fire for not reporting lead contamination of drinking water in schools for several years. The superintendent is stepping down with a generous government pension. Some of us think she should be serving time in prison. But then she's not the only politician who is "Too big to jail."

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 09:50:07 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 10, 2016, 04:06:35 amPolitics indeed... In Israel the duality between the political existence and life is very clear. In real life there is Arabic spoken nearly everywhere, and some cities have a very "major" minority; there are Christians (as in Nazereth and Haifa) and there are Muslims (Jaffa, Jerusalem) - and - for the most part - everyone seems to get along fine.But life proceeds under the clouds of political activism driven by greed, money, power plays, ideological extremism, religious war remnants from 500 years ago, clan mentality, and sexual politics. These plays happen between Jews and Arabs, Christians Jews and Muslims, Orthodox vs. Refromists, Atheists, the far right/far left (the same IMHO) and politicians (Love the Irony that we have arab Knesset members touring the globe talking "apartheid" - as if Nelson Mandela was an MP during Apartheid....).This is further fueled by global powers - the far left / anti semite / holocaust denier / free gaza / BDS / delegitimization groups that want to expand the self immolation of the middle east to Israel. This marriage of ideas spanning the likes of David Irving/Noam Chomski/Saeb Arekat/Mark Weber/Omar Barghouti and others. The far right (including the "rapture" and bible belt fanatics) doesn't help as well (there are settlements that are predominantly American Christian fundamentalists...).The recent "wave" of violence (I say wave in quotes since overall - in numbers of deaths, France and the USA and Turkey have us beat) - was rather strange since the perpetrators (wielding a knife or cleaver) for the most part were not doing this to advance the wealth of Hamas or Fatah officials - but made it clear over Facebook that it was out of real - unmotivated - frustration. This seemed new. And part of it is Israel's fault for not demanding that Palestinian leadership at least appear to care for Palestinian interests. Benjamin Netanyahu's toxic rhetoric - albeit like a reed swaying in the wind - doesn't inspire confidence for neither side.All of this is now backfiring into Europe and the US. Years of letting the political religion activists roam London and New Jersey and Paris and Brussels and exploit the frustrations of the young minority - is now rearing its head.So to your point - you left El Cajon area - while in fact what you did was marginalize the Arab minority (instead of doing your part in helping them assume an American identity) and it is just a matter of time until a young, frustrated, El Cajon citizen is recruited. Because he never had you as a role model for what America is about.Kids like Ahmed need people like you to meet at Maker spaces and Faires and at schools to counter the rhetoric and frustrations and hatred carried by their parents from the perched, sectarian struggles and war zones in the middle east.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 11:13:26 am
content: Misunderstandings happen, of course. I am recalling now one I experienced when I was 13 years old. I was spending an Easter vacation in my aunt's small house near Madrid (we are from the North) and, one morning, we woke up with the house surrounded by fully armed policemen. Fully armed, protected behind their cars andpointingaiming.A politician had been kidnapped by the terrorist group ETA and the police was searching Madrid and the surroundings. A whole Madrid suburb was searched, every house. Someone surely called the police and told them that a usually vacant and somewhat isolated house had some visitors from Bilbao (tell tale number plate), no less.The policemen found a married couple with three kids, they didn't even enter the house finally, apologizing instead. But the funny misunderstanding was, when I was 12 I discovered radio and electronics and, being fascinated by all of it, and probably bored there, I had been drawing idly some "waves" (probably like sinusoids) on a small piece of cardboard, probably I wrote some nonsense involving numbers and "MHz"... I don't know.The detective in charge asked, cardboard in hand (I had left it in the garden) what that mysterious cardboard with that electronics stuff was. Of course my surprised parents looked at me as the obvious suspect, and I explained (I managed not to burst into laughter until right after the policemen left in their cars) that I had just been drawing nonsense, it was just a useless piece of cardboard, so useless I had left it in the garden, forgetting about it a minute after I drew it. He asked me "do you like electronics?" - "Oh, indeed I do!" I replied. Anyway, he took the silly thing with him when he left.Of course this was Spain in 1983, we had been under a military dictatorship from 1936 to 1975 and the police at the time wasn't known for being savvy at anything but prosecuting and harassing political oppositors. But I can't help imagining what happened if the guy dared to show the "piece of evidence" to some kind of technical advisor.The situation would have been quite complicated if I had been tinkering with a radio or something else, imagine a soldering iron and some tools, and they had searched the house. I am sure they would have thought that my father was assembling detonators or something.But the reaction of the school staff is completely out of proportion. Even if there was some sinister intent by his father to stir trouble. And no, I don't think that religions have some kind of special status that makes it unpolite to criticize them. I am free to like or dislike them, and I dislike them indeed. So I am not defending islam, which I really dislike.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 11:23:20 am
content: Clock boy claims he had to leave the US, because of death threats.The family decides, regardless of the danger, to spend their first summer break in Texas, alerting the whole media of their imminent return.Qatar is a little hot at this time of the year.A suit is filed against the city of Irving, through a new attorney (Susan Hutchison), now claiming racial and religious discrimination.A press conference regarding the lawsuit was held on Monday, August 8, 2016 at 10 a.m. at the office of Rev. Pete Johnson, 400 S. Zang, Dallas, Texas 75208. (Bank of America Building, in the Oak Room) with Ahmed and his father attending.Ahmed closed his morning news conference with a message for kids and adults who find themselves under arrest. "If you did nothing wrong, you have the right to remain silent. They might not tell that to you, but just know that."Previous events, as viewed by his attorney:http://www.warriorsforjustice.com/ahmed-mohamed-story/

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 01:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on August 10, 2016, 11:23:20 amUh, they certainly *do* tell this to you, it's in the first freaking sentence of the Miranda Warning! In fact, if they *don't* "advise you of your rights" then anything you say to them *cannot* be used against you in court, even if you confess!So when he was arrested (or detained for questioning) a police officer undoubtedly read the following (or similar) to him:QuoteSo, he's quite the prolific little liar! (Though the part about being silent is good advice. If you're ever arrested, say *nothing* and ask for a lawyer immediately. No matter how nice the cops are being towards you, they're not your friends, they're running a game on you, under no circumstances answer their questions.)

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 01:54:24 pm
content: Wow - reading the lawyers account (which Under normal circumstances one wouldn't doubt - as it simply facts - no intentions...) - they took the "bomb" and put it in the drawer and after a few more hours dealt with it.Texans: If you find a bomb (I hope you don't - but if you do) - do NOT pick it up. Do not put it in the drawer for later. Call a bomb squad and keep away from the bomb.Just a thought for Texans.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 02:42:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 10, 2016, 04:57:20 amExactly that. The number of friends I have who are Muslims, Jews, Catholics, CofE, Sikh, and even a friend who has Falun Gong family members quite surprised me. But that was because I prefer to consider them all to be people first, ones I happen to think are fairly decent or I'd not bother with them.The media and I suppose our governments are using religious affiliations to manipulate us and push an agenda, if you're any kind of a reasonable human being you should know to judge people on your personal experience of them, not what others would have you believe of them.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 02:52:32 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on August 10, 2016, 11:23:20 amQuoteYou can apparently just connect batteries, displays, buttons and transformers to a random printed circuit board board (hah) and it magically becomes a clock.I wonder what he'd say if they asked him to replicate the result in front of a camera.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 04:35:44 pm
content: QuoteIf Israel imposed to Palestian a determinate leader , Israel would be acused of the colonialist. Israel whatever you do will be the bad. If the people don't understand that you can't reach an agreement,with somebody that his great goal on the life is kills you.QuoteStop the wagon, please don't use an euphemism that political religion activists is equal to Salafist Imam.Here , before of the arrived of the radical imams, the great majority of arabs women didn't wear the hijab neither niyab (except the very old women), when they arrived of the night to day almost the young arabs wore the handkerchief on the head.QuotePlease say me which the succes integration model the French, the Sweden. Because all the models have failed.On France , all the marginalized assumptions for each son, they recieve 1200 €( this is told me by arab french ) plus other grants, exchange they are dedicated to sell the drugs , shoot among drug traffickers(example Marsella) or robber.But as alwaysthey haven't the blameso as we can't difference among the goods and the bads , we will have as the Spanish king Phillip III expulsed

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 04:38:52 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on August 10, 2016, 02:42:24 pmHere is the other way around, our government tells are that the global jihad is not related to Islam and that terror attacks are 'workplace violance' and 'mass shooting'.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:00:32 pm
content: QuoteThe new fashion of the goverments is that the attacks are produced by INSANE PEOPLE, but they aren't crazy and they known what want them(as the song)

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:02:34 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on August 10, 2016, 11:23:20 amGiven the encouragement by one of the candidates to marginalize anyone that doesn't look like them, I'm not surprised if he received death threats; if the father considered it safer to relocate the family back to the middle east, that's not a completely unreasonable decision.Is his father a bit over the top with all of this? probably.Did the school board over react? most definitely, but then again see #1 (large groups of US citizens campaigning to marginalize muslims)Should the school board get their asses sued? Yes. The school board would have reacted differently had he been white; and jumping to a conclusion merely because he was muslim/arab is racism.Let's not forget the single most devastating attack in Europe on innocent citizens in the last ten years was committed by a guy named Andreas Lubitz - Oh wait that doesn't make good sensational news because he's not muslim.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:09:48 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on August 10, 2016, 05:02:34 pmRemember that in the US, a minor child can be taken for an abortion without notifying the parents. But you can get kicked out of school for bringing prescription medicine or even aspirin (even with proper documentation). Or even brandishing your sandwich which you have chewed into the shape of a gun. Not kidding. "Over react" is a Politically Correct synonym for the kind of institutionalized insanity that runs government schools these days.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:17:51 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on August 10, 2016, 05:09:48 pmYou missed my point somewhat. The lawsuit will (and should) be successful for one reason only: The actions would have been difference based on who the kid was.As for the insanity in the US, this sums it up nicely.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on August 10, 2016, 05:00:32 pmYes, and sometimes it's funny. There was a recent attack in London by an 'insane person' but when the police said that they will beef up security immediately it was clear that there is more to it.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:29:49 pm
content: QuoteYou have reason, but on less of year have had ten the islamic attack released between 2 or three attackers( 20 or 30 MOORS) respect a 1 of native european but that really were blamed thebureaucracy german becuase the pilot was of low medical (here at Spain until that the Mutua don't send the high medical to SS and the corporation of the worker, the worker can't work )Statistics1 - european native = 150 deaths20-30 MOORS = almost 300 deaths

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on August 10, 2016, 05:02:34 pmYou are falling to your own propaganda.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:34:52 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on August 10, 2016, 04:35:44 pmThe Salafist, selfish Imam comes to the flock. Not the other way round. That is why generation 2 is so susceptible to indoctrination.The French, the Belgians, the British, New Jersey folk and not-to-be-outdone the Pretend Swedes all assumed that if you let in some tribe members they'll learn how to assimilate into a democratic society, where the ability to decide your future means you actually have to work for your future, and that tribal leaders cannot help you. You can't let them fail in society - and yet all European governments did just that.So you are right - they all ignored the immigrants and are all paying the price. Swedish prime minister - after governmental hate mongering did squat - is now saying that society is falling apart. Continue to ignore them at your peril.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 05:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on August 10, 2016, 05:17:51 pmMoms demand action for gun sense in america as at Spain where the the bad life people have weapons since guns until assault rifles while the honest people have forbbiden until slingshot (Massive destruction weapon )

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 08:44:23 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on August 09, 2016, 04:43:12 amI am not sure what the school excluded him from, but better safe than sorry. When others declared war, it would be foolish not to look at suspicious activities carefully.The whole thing of course can be simplified if one is able to read intend accurately, but that is not possible. So it is a judgement call on which actions cause more harm - being overly suspicious, or having a bunch of dead bodies.Bombs in someways is worst than shooting. Shootings can be stopped relatively easily by loosening gun laws. 98% of mass shootings occurred in gun-free zones. Bombing however is more dangerous, you can't shoot back.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 09:03:25 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on August 10, 2016, 05:44:12 pmThis all started because Iraq had WMD (weapons of mass destruction) !!!which were slingshots. The only mass destruction I have been able to do is scare a rat.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 11:20:56 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on August 10, 2016, 05:17:51 pmUgh, that's just sickening... Someone needs to teach that little girl proper trigger discipline!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 11:28:30 pm
content: "We won't sell chocolate eggs in the interest of child safety. Why not assault weapons?"I agree, an assault weapon is a much better choice.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 11:46:05 pm
content: As much as the (ridiculous) Kinder Egg vs "pretend" Assault Weapon (like an AR15) thing is amusing to all outside the USA I believe it is nothing to do with child safety at all, but an FDA (Food and Drug Administration) law that makes it illegal to put inedible shit inside foodstuffs. The packaging may be inedible plastic or cardboard but none of that is allowed inside a food item.That makes total sense. So the issue is not having an opt-out for novelty food items - and the typical overzealousness of USA government departments.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 12:06:29 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 10, 2016, 11:28:30 pmThis kid with a clock is a blip on the screen. He, and his sister with similar issues at the same school, may be or may not be a problem. The whole thing may be just hot air. But regardless of these two, there is certainly a big problem out there beyond this kid, his sister, or his family.In Nice, France, kids were not exempted from harm. Here in the USA, five year old girl got raped at knife point, some old guy got hacked to death...The world is degenerating. As responsible adults, we have to take responsibility of our own safety instead of demanding others to do it for us. And we have to make sure kids are safe.Perhaps a carbine is more suitable for a child. As more and more mass shooting occurs, it is our responsibility to take care of their safety in making sure they can defend themselves. Handling weapons is an important part of that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 04:33:26 am
content: Quote from: boffin on August 10, 2016, 05:02:34 pmNo.They should have felt embarrassed, apologised, then everyone should have had a big laugh about it, and Ahmed should have capitalised on his unexpected fame and maybe might have gone on to do something good.But nope, everyone took it too seriously, all hell broke loose, people started suing, his parents went crazy, and Ahmed got dragged off to some religious hole by his family. Everyone loses.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 05:01:05 am
content: Fromhttp://www.warriorsforjustice.com/ahmed-mohamed-story/QuoteRight there is the problem. It doesn't take 5 cops to investigate what, at worst, would have been a school prank.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 05:02:47 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 11, 2016, 12:06:29 amAny potential gun debate here ends right now.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 05:03:31 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 10, 2016, 11:28:30 pmMy understanding is that it's not the chocolate that's the danger - it's the little toy inside. That is, or is made up of, small parts that present a choking hazard. Guns are much safer because they don't have any such small parts - or do they???Bullets are small enough to be a choking hazard, aren't they?Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2016, 05:02:47 amMy bad.No more from me on this tangent.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 06:18:06 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 11, 2016, 05:03:31 amThe risky part in those eggs is the small plastic container inside that contains the "toy". If a kid tries to use his mouth to open it there's a risk of sucking it into the throat.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 09:12:18 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 10, 2016, 11:28:30 pmFood with toys inside are useless, you can't defend against a terrorist with that.It's potentially dangerous and has no advantages.The only reason it's still allowed in EU is because it exists a long time, and the italian lobby is very strong.Try to put a similar new item on the market and it would be banned instantly.Flippo is already forbidden, good so.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 03:57:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2016, 04:33:26 amIf Ahmed and his family choose to live in another country, it's there choice, and we don't lose.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 06:28:26 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2016, 05:02:47 amCrystal (clear), your house, your rules.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 06:35:15 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 11, 2016, 09:12:18 amWhy is food with stuff inside bad? Is a cow bad because of the bones? Is Fugo a bad fish because of the neurotoxin in its spleen?I wonder if the concern is someone swallowing the plastic egg ala Paul Newman swallowing 50 eggs in Cool Hand Luke or is it just trying to lure kids to the sweetness of sweetened low cocoa content "chocolate".Ferrero Rocher. Yumm. But I read somewhere that Broccoli is healthier.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 06:46:04 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on August 10, 2016, 11:46:05 pm... yes, like those hard pits they put inside or perches. The government should stop it.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 07:58:47 pm
content: I think people are not heeding the thread lock warning re: Gun Debate. Keep it to the clock boy or Dave will lock it!

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 08:09:37 pm
content: I would bet that the school would have reacted the same no matter what nationality the student was.AS we have seen in similar cases that had nothing to do with suspected terrorism or threats from any particular ethnic group.But, OTOH, the popular press loves flogging stories like this to bolster their particular world-view propaganda.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 09:48:37 pm
content: With these many people professing their so profound love for the clock biy and his family, I wonder which of you are going to take him into.No one?I'm surprised. Not.You are one of those people who love the poor and unfortunate as long as you don't have to live with the consequences of taking care of the poor and unfortunate.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 11:27:37 pm
content: Speaking of Kinder Surprises, here in Canada they are pretty much impulse purchase items at the check out lane. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting injured by one. It's a known fact that they have a toy inside, and the plastic shell is quite big. Even in America I don't think there has really been that many injuries, with those or Bucky Balls. All this banning of stuff is just ridiculous knee jerk reaction by people with too much power and not enough brains.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 01:25:21 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 11, 2016, 11:27:37 pmUnfortunately brains and power seem to have an inverse relationship in American government.Though upon reflection, that might also make perfect sense - anyone with brains enough to come in out of the rain is smart enough to stay away from politics, so we get what's left and wind up stuck with things like zero tolerance policies and insane overreaction to things that at worst should result in a talking to.The Bucky Ball banning was total nonsense and a perfect example of bureaucratic overreach. Careless adults let kids get their hands on something that was CLEARLY marked as being for 'adults only, keep away from children'; the company goes out of their way in an attempt to cooperate with the regulatory agencies and keep kids safe, and after all is said and done someone there decides to shut them down anyway. Of course you can still buy them on e-bay, but the US based company has been shut down.Idiocy.-Pat

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 02:31:35 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on August 11, 2016, 07:58:47 pmYes, and I have just deleted the gun posts after I asked people to stop that. This forum is not the place for gun debates whichwillget out of hand.Same with religion, but that's at least related to this incident and thread.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 02:37:11 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on August 11, 2016, 08:09:37 pmMaybe, maybe not. But there is at least some evidence that it might have played a part in this instance. i.e. the teacher saying "that's who I thought it was" or some such. Now whether that's because Ahmed had a bit of reputation as a nerdy kid who bought his stuff to school in the past, or because it's a nationality thing is not entirely clear.If it was the former though, then surely that would have meantlessreaction and not more?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 02:48:03 am
content: Regardless whether the clock looks too much like a bomb and should be stopped or not... The sad thing is, the city will likely just settle the case. The citizens of the town ends up paying.The ability of the town folks to control the school's policy (to stop or not to stop) is about zero. They also have little control over the training or hiring of the teacher. Add to that, they have little to no control on whether the case should be settled. So, they are like sitting ducks being plucked.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 02:51:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2016, 02:37:11 am...or perhaps he was simply a troublemaker, which some news outlets reported.I feel sorry for a kid,any kid, being in the middle of this mess - this will follow him for quite a long time, with unforeseen consequences.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 03:14:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2016, 02:37:11 amYou are confusing speculation with evidence.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 03:32:16 am
content: Indeed. Speculation is rife - and it gains credence through repetition, not fact.I, for one, would have liked to knowwhythe person who said "that's who I thought it was" used those words.- Was it because they were given a physical description - and recognised the kid?- Was it because they knew the kid was nerdy and likely to rock up with something like he did?- Was it because he was a troublemaker?- Was it because he had expressed terrorist sympathetic ideas?- Was it because his family had demonstrated grounds for concern?- Was it because of racial prejudice?- Was it because of something else?There's so much subtlety lost in the reporting, it's nigh unto impossible to get the real truth.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 04:48:34 am
content: In a postmodern reality facts take second place to emotions.Donald Trump sells emotions to gullible Americans (that's why he can sell incompatible ideas together).We will never know what the teacher who put the "bomb" in her desk: was it racist, was it ignorant, was it after 10 warnings to keep beeping stuff out of the classroom... We will never know because reality and fact shrink the emotional impact that concepts and ideological truisms have.I really hope the teacher was smart enough to not think it was a bomb - really stupid to put a bomb in a desk drawer.So there must be a story behind how "whatever" became "bomb". Was it TV who tried to create an interesting version of reality? Or was it a bored detective who made an opportunistic grab for the limelight?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 05:12:27 am
content: Quote from: Assafl on August 12, 2016, 04:48:34 amThe Media have a lot to answer for. They are driven by the dollar, not objectivity.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:29:04 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 12, 2016, 02:48:03 amApparently, the school has no intention to settle. The staff actually looks forward to the day when all the facts can be presented in court. Something that hasn't been be possible so far.The traumatized kid claims he has lost all creativity (like nailing the innards of a clock to a pencil case), but he looks forward to visiting Google and Twitter and studying electrical engineering at MIT.He wants to apply for a patent, as he has dreamt up some projects that involve friction and electricity.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:49:40 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 12, 2016, 05:12:27 amWe saw it in previous cases where the narrative by the media and the political left imploded once a proper investigation or a trial was conducted. To name a few, Zimmerman/Martin, Ferguson/Brown, Baltimore/Gray and Lewandowski/Fields. The sad thing is that even after the claims were debunked, those people keep pushing the false narrative.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_up,_don%27t_shootThe narrative in the media and the conclusions that people argue here with great confidence mean nothing until this this case will go through a rigorous investigation or people will give testimony in court under oath and will be subject to cross examination.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:09:25 am
content: Quote from: Assafl on August 12, 2016, 04:48:34 amNonsense. He is correct on many issues, e.g. globalization, over extending our involvement, national debt, illegal immigration and broken borders, the threat of global islamic terror, biased media, government strangling businesses with over regulation, non accountability of the public sector employees and more. Compare with the corruption, constant lies, and failed track record of the other candidate and it's a non brainer.Educate yourself.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:17:00 am
content: Medias should be abolished and redesigned to give information as they are. No politics, NO personal opinions, NO debates on air. And correct informations ONLY and as they are. it's cruel to say, but take a look around: you start the TV and it's only four things:1. violence in your country + violence outside your country2. how bad things are going + immigration is out of control3. terrorists and calamity + conspiracy theories4. stupidity and Idiocy + law is not fairThis way they are not that different from terrorists: they have the power to manipulate you, your opinion and your ideas making you belive something distorted from reality because they want audience and money regardless of the consequences, and what's more, they can't be touched even if they make damage to all of us. This power should not be in the hand of anyone. Not even the State, because it's an aggression to your well-being and your way of living...I switched off the television for years now, and I've changed: I've learn that arguing about stupid debates is not the way to solve problems: act now and improve, I've learn that immigration is not a problem and many other things like journals, sports, factories also entire organizations are dying in my country because of media basis.If we want really to fight the terror, we should all fight the media in first place by shutting down the television and create our own way of living. If they don't sell they are doomed to fail or at least to change.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 10:49:06 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 12, 2016, 05:12:27 amThey sometimes do say the dollar is objective. I can imagine an argument that says that a TV program, not matter how objective, if it isn't watched might as well not have been made. We get what we pay for...We care for a story about a madly competent kid with a suspicious father that they cannot understand with a quirky FBI agent and meeting the president and eventually escaping the racist USA (only to come back for a vacation).Much better than a story about a geeky kid with a history of "troublemaking" and a politician for a father.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 11:42:11 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 12, 2016, 03:32:16 amIndeed.What seems to be correct according to most involved is that Ahmed was a bit of a tech nerd and everyone at school seemed to now it. Which is why I'm surprised it went as far as it did.Whatreallymade this story explode was the photo, the one with him in the NASA T-Shirt in the handcuffs looking like a sterotypical weedy nerd with the glasses.If that photo hadn't existed, I think the story wouldn't have gone very far.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 12:55:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2016, 11:42:11 amMakes me think of the field day the media had with this photo, as if it represented the majority of the situation, (sad though the picture may be).Photos removed by Moderator. Let's stay on topic.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 04:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 12, 2016, 07:09:25 amOk. I will. But it is easy to be critical without any plan.Reduce taxes. Raise child support. Kick ISIS. Reduce the US deployment. Build a wall. Gather 12m illegal immigrants. Retake a leadership role while withdrawing. Reduce gun control but provide the leadership to reduce the shootings.It is very easy indeed. Ask any South American dictator.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 04:53:27 pm
content: Quotenot sure why you want to do that.QuoteYeah: sometimes letting others taking care of themselves is a big part of leadership.QuoteFairly easy to do.Voting against for clinton is easy: look at the last 40-50 years of "professional politicians" and see what they have done for the average joe, vs. themselves.Bill and Hillary Clintons have been life long "public servants". Do their bank accounts look like that of a "servant"?Sanders, the cleanest of the clean politicians, just bought a $600K summer house on the lake, his 3rd. Does that look like the life style of a "servant"?...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 05:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on August 12, 2016, 04:38:33 pmPick one topic and we can discuss it offline, over PM.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:30:11 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 04:53:27 pmNothing you can do to stop Bill C. From lecturing and making stunning heaps of cash in the process.Also nothing you can do to prevent another one of Donald's Companies to file for Chapter 11 having vendors and employees and tax payers footing the bill.You pay either way.I don't get this portrayal of Donald Trump as a cleaner of DC. As a saint that will make Washington renege on global economic commitments and have the Europeans foot the US bill.Even if he does become Putin's lapdog.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:36:03 pm
content: Quotethat's true, if you define a substantial portion of the US as "extreme right wing".QuoteNo but you can stop pay-to-play schemes.Chelsea Clinton worked for NBC for a few hours reading scripts written by others and earned 3/4 of a million. If an average joe can get a chance to do that, I would shut up about the Clintons.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:44:05 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 06:36:03 pmI agree with the gripes and vitriol. Of the substantial portion. Copy the US to Europe and Israel and anywhere else is the same.But just how is a person with seemingly no plan, no experience, whose interests are aligned with Billionaires (not millionaires), a person that cannot utter a sentence that does not cause a crisis somewhere - how is that going to do all the wonderful (and sometimes contradicting) things he promises?What does looking out for "you" mean? What does cleaning up DC mean?Cleaning is a sinister word in politics. As an example: Erdogan is "cleaning up" Turkey. Pol Pot cleaned up society. I don't know why but politicians with a broom always end up mad.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 06:47:48 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on August 12, 2016, 06:44:05 pmReducing the AC ripple and spikes on the DC line.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:13:34 pm
content: QuotePrecisely my thoughts when Obama was running his "Dope and Change", or I mean "Hope and Change" scheme a few years back. 8 years later, everyone was left with were just some changes in their pocket, no hope whatsoever. The richer gets richer and the poor gets poorer.Had they asked the wise questions you are asking, they would have been far better off.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:21:32 pm
content: QuoteYou are certainly entitled to that thoughts. But I would argue that many people would consider the unwillingness (not just the inability) to enforce law and order is extreme.Not to mention an executive branch that actively seeks to violate laws it is tasked to uphold.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 07:52:14 pm
content: QuoteYeah, but that's why you have elections: the voters voice their displeasure with existing laws by empowering people who want to violate the existing laws. That's how we got out of slavery (then the law of the land), civil rights (then the law of the land), ...hope it helps.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 08:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2016, 11:42:11 amI don't see how anyone can say it was definitely set up. There's no concrete evidence to support the fact he deliberately went to school or was sent there with a device designed to look like a bomb. It's all just speculation.If he or his father wanted to make it look like a bomb, then surely they would have done a better job than that? If it really was intended to be a fake bomb, then it would have had something which resembled sticks of dynamite and a sticker saying bomb, so it was certain he'd get in trouble for it. There was no guarantee the insides of an alarm clock, inside a pencil case, would be mistaken for a bomb. It's just the teacher's ignorance. If he'd shown it to a different teacher or did the same thing at another school, this wouldn't have happened.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 08:50:28 pm
content: QuoteOr just explain to them what it is, vs. being an uncooperative jerk.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 08:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 08:50:28 pm

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 07:52:14 pmHuh?The president is the executive branch. It takes the Senate and Congress to make - or change - laws. The presidents only task is to sign laws into the administration and ensure they are followed (of course - interpretation is key).As much as Trumps wants to say (and if it were true) that Hilary wants to - she cannot change the second amendment. Only the legislative branch can change laws or the constitution. (And the Supreme Court if a law proves unconstitutional).As for slavery - that was about the relationship between state law and federal law. That is far more complicated.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:08:35 pm
content: QuoteYou sound like the perfect person to talk to Mrs. Obama and Holder,

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:12:12 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 08:50:28 pmAll right, I'll bite.You really don't think before pressing the reply button.Were you there? No. All you've heard is media reports. For all we know, he probably did explain to the teacher what it was but wasn't believed.That wasn't my point anyway. If he'd shown it to a more knowledgable teacher, they would have seen what it was: the innards of an old alarm clock in a pencil case, not a bomb.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:18:07 pm
content: QuoteYou really don't think before pressing the reply button.Were you there? No. All you've heard is media reports + own speculation. For all we know, he probably didn't explain to the teacher what it was but acted like a jerk.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 09:18:07 pmSo what if he did act like a jerk? And even if he did, that's an understandable reaction to a teacher who should have known better.My point had nothing to do with whether he acted like a jerk, but the teacher's competence: if he'd shown it to someone with decent level of education, this would not have happened.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:25:35 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 09:18:07 pmPlease let someone leave me this planet. Have you ever heard of presumption of innocence? Assumption that he was an uncooperative jerk is what must be proven, not otherwise. This is how science works BTW. Someone must prove theory or hypothesis. Not that someone claims BS 10 times per day, then others must prove that it is wrong.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidenceQuote

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:27:58 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 09:18:07 pmBut then again the teacher put it in her desk drawer. Does that seem reasonable if she thought it was a bomb? I don't like to speculate but I will that it is unlikely one would get on with their day with a bomb in their drawer overlooking their drawers.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 12, 2016, 08:46:50 pmbut if it had really looked like a bomb it wouldn't be possible to sell the story of a poor kid targeted for no other reason than racism and bigotryNow he's just a tool to try an milk an obnoxious amount of money from the school.He lives in a country that has slave labor and practices sharia law and then he's sitting at a press conference talkingabout not being safe in the US

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on August 12, 2016, 07:15:59 pmIt's not about the religion, it's about the political ideology that comes with it, especially the more militant and violent strain.It's incompatible with a pluralist and democratic society, just like communism and it's native to bring in a large number of immigrants that support that ideology.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on August 12, 2016, 09:32:40 pmSo how does that prove it was a set-up? It doesn't.His dad is just using it to make money out of a bad situation. Lots of people do this kind of thing: they have a road accident which wasn't their fault so sue the other driver's insurance for extortionate amounts.This is just luck:Bad luck: road accident.Fortunately: the in cyclist can sue, even more so if the story is in the news.Bad luck: the boy's teacher was ignorant.Fortunately: the story went viral and now he can sue.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 09:57:02 pm
content: QuoteSo how does that prove it was not a set-up? It doesn't.QuoteThe fact that other people do ethically questionable things makes it OK for you to do ethically questionable things.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 10:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 09:57:02 pmIt wasn't a set up because there wasn't much chance the teacher would think the clock was a bomb. I'm sure plenty of other students have done a similar thing, without being accused of terrorism. It's just a fluke event.Yes, I agree about the ethics of suing. It's fucking stupid how people can sue for huge amounts, over silly things but it's the legal system's fault.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 10:29:49 pm
content: QuoteHow would you know?Unless you can read minds, and did get a chance to read his mind, I see no definitive way for you to conclude that. What you provided is nothing but speculation on your part.I actually don't mind the lawsuit: let all the facts out and let people judge. Shinning a spotlight on anything is good.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 10:45:00 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 10:29:49 pmAll right, then we may speculate that plenty of others have attempted to set up a similar thing but failed because the teacher was too knowledgeable and we've never heard about it?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 10:49:57 pm
content: QuoteOr most people are smart enough not to get themselves into that kind of situations?...We simply don't know and your guesses are every bit as good as mine.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 11:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 10:49:57 pmMost teachers are smart enough not to think an alarm clock is a bomb and even if the child was dumb, that's not a crime.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 11:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 12, 2016, 09:42:00 pmWhy didn't they ban Christians from the UK then based on the massive religious violence of the 50s-80s in Northern Ireland? Let's also remember that most mafioso are also devout Catholics.To put it mathematically, the set of terrorists and the set of Muslims occasionally intersect. That doesn't doesn't mean the set of Christians doesn't intersect with the set of terrorists (it does, see many many Christian terrorists, and/or mafia).However, the USA (and increasingly European countries) in an effort to make the white majority feel better about themselves, are quick to blame people who don't look and sound like themselves. The same is being used by the police "We have to treat people this way, there's a war on police" (there isn't - officer deaths are at a 50 yr low)

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 11:43:31 pm
content: QuoteIs that based on some scientific survey, or your speculation? or your mind reading?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2016, 11:47:04 pm
content: Quotenot sure. So far, i haven't heard of anyone advocating banning Hindus, or Buddists, or Taoists (?), ... who look and sound quite unlike the white majority.Instead, only the religion of peace is singled out.I wonder why?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 02:03:56 am
content: QuoteWell, simple always trumps complex,QuoteThat's the point: not only you should let him leech off of you, you should be delighted that he's leeching off of you and the rest of your families.And it is in that department that you fail miserably,

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 06:39:01 am
content: The real issue with Ahmed was that the teacher was an idiot: who fucking think that a kid make bombs? Wouldn't be better if he had bought a stolen gun and then he shot off the entire place if he wanted to commit this crime?Come on, the real thing is just stupid. Next time, why you don't bring a little electronic project at school and you claim it'a pirate radio or a RF jammer that brings down a planes? The BOM is simple:1. NE5552. Transistor3. 5V battery4. LED (very small and RED, not green or yellow, that's more scary)5. choke (Trought hole choke not SMD, same as the LED)6. capacitor7. potentiometerFCC will kill you for that. Ah, I forgot to mention: you just need to connect things randomly but the LED must blink.Is this situation different form Ahmed's one? No. The only common thing is that it's stupid and it will be media-baised claming terrorist anyone who try to make this crap.For as I see: the teacher was an idiot and the medias are... medias... There's no other term to define their stupidity. arrogance and decadence over the past years.As for the immigration issue in Europe and USA: Immigration is not the issue, it's the leadership that's unable to control it: you alredy know that a system without a control mechanism is just rubbish and it will make disasters. They use the fear of the citizens as an excuse to not work properly, but you are wrong if you think a muslim immigrant is your enemy because it's a muslim: the real enemy is the government that just think about themselves and steal money from pepole and also they don't care about your rights.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 06:55:06 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 13, 2016, 06:39:01 amDisagree with you on this. There's plenty of dangerous kids in the US and there's a tremendous pressure especially in the schools and other government offices to report anything and everything just in case. The teacher realistically did not have a choice but to report it.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 07:26:40 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 13, 2016, 06:39:01 amhttp://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/false-dilemma/

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 12:20:04 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 12, 2016, 11:43:31 pmPersonal experience. I've taken plenty of similar looking objects to Ahmed's clock into school before and never had any problems but that was 20 years ago. Now if enough teachers are that fucking thick, then the education system really is broken.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 12:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 13, 2016, 06:39:01 amThis is not entirely agreeable. In my school days, every semester there was always a toilet stall being targeted by small home bombs. I have never heard about someone being harmed (the accomplices were pretty discrete in letting everyone know beforehand and limit access to the target), but the risk was certainly there. Kids being kids, we usually had a laugh when that happened but certainly shows it can be done.Quote from: blacksheeplogic on August 13, 2016, 06:55:06 amIIRC Ahmed violated a zero tolerance rule (provision? Regulation? Law?I can't tell for sure) against real/fake threats of guns/bombs. That is most probably why he was taken into custody and also why the teacher simply stored the clock in a drawer - not because it was a bomb, but because it was put away as "evidence".Context is everything: if a similar thing happened in an airport I suspect the media would react differently.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 01:06:30 pm
content: QuoteI would caution against using 20-year old experience in judging today's schools.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 04:06:06 pm
content: How would you feel if it is a dis-assembled cell phone with wires sticking out? Anyone who watches TV know a cell-phone is a common tool for remote triggered IED.I bet you found the cell phone with wire plug/solder to the ringer more threatening than a alarm clock with wire plug/solder to the ringer.Yet by the same token, a clock is the delayed trigger of choice for a time delay IED. Even in the moviePinocchio, an alarm clock was depicted as a trigger for a time delayed IED.If I am the teacher and I quickly identified it as an alarm clock - but with connection to the ringer already exposed, I would conclude that as I have a delay Trigger mechanism for an IED. Why should I not call the police after I see a trigger for a time-delayed IED.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 04:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 13, 2016, 04:06:06 pmBut if you thought it was a bomb would your put it in your desk, rather than get as far away from it as possible?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 04:14:52 pm
content: QuoteSo if someone chopped your head off, you would support letting that person go and instead you want to blame the government for not having prevented the horrific crime against you?If that's the case, why do we spend all the money and man power to prosecute criminals? We should just jail the government(s) repeatedly whenever a crime is committed,that's just nuts.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 04:17:02 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 13, 2016, 04:06:06 pmTerrorists use electronic hand watches, not big clocks with led displays.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 04:21:22 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 13, 2016, 04:06:06 pmIf it's a T Mobile phone I wouldn't worry, coverage sucks.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 06:04:06 pm
content: QuoteIf you assume that kids are incapable of building something nasty and/or doing something nasty, then you are simply wrong. I assume that lots of the people on this forum would be capable of making an IED at the time they were 14.And if you assume that kids are nice and playful and would never do something intentionally evil, well, good for you, keep up the optimism. Kids are basically smaller versions of adults, and adults come in all levels and flavors of assholes.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 07:30:25 pm
content: Wrong: Kids are not miniature adults. It's an entierly different world if you compare side by side...Anyway, what the heck guys, if something looks like a bomb it doesn't mean it's actually a bomb: where are the chemicals? Inside the "clock's capacitors"?It's like if everyone said: "it's a bomb OMG it's a bomb" and run away without using their brain!

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 01:36:04 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on August 13, 2016, 07:30:25 pmIt's not like he brought an actual alarm clock to school... This was a disassembled clock (and other random bits) stuck in a pencil case. To a lay person, I can see how it would look suspicious.It's not like there aren't any precedents for kids blowing up their schools. Or at least trying to. Remember the propane bombs at Columbine? They made one simple mistake in their construction; that's the only reason they didn't go off and take the 50+ people in the cafeteria with them!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 01:39:11 am
content: QuoteNext time, when you run into one of those situations, you may try to take some time and inquire about the nature of such devices.We will get a chance to see how Darwinism works.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 06:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 13, 2016, 04:09:47 pmre: "get as far away from it as possible"I assumed getting far away from the bombis not a priority for suicide bombers. Beside, it also could be: "can I just get this part through."The 911 Commission Report was our "Failure of Imagination". Among many failures, we failed to see (and prevent)box cutter use like a knife to slash someone's throat. So, knife was not permitted to plans but box cutters were fine.[Don't start a debate on the reason of 9/11 attack as some would no doubt argue that USA was at fault and some would argue otherwise. So let's stay away from that debate.]It doesn't take so much to imagination to think someone couldsneak a bomb in a piece at a time. Since 911, we (the government and citizen) demanded that our security personnel to be vigilant. Is it vigilant to see what you think could be a delay-trigger and just let this box-cutter go by without further investigation?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 08:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 14, 2016, 06:23:49 pmWhat the fuck are you talking about? If the teacher really thought the device was a bomb, they would have evacuated the school, not just put it in their draw!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:27:06 am
content: QuoteJust how "extreme" is Trump?I don't have any scientific data on that. I do have a few pictures that may help you understand that.First, a picture of Clinton rally in Iowa, and then a picture of a Trump rally in Fairfield, CT.Iowa is fairly conservative and Fairfield is extremely liberal - pundits put Clinton's chance to win CT at 99%.See for yourself how extreme her support is in Iowa vs. his in CT.You can also find a few pictures of recent Trump rallies in NH, ME (two very liberal states) and FL. A friend of mine went to the ME rally (after 5+ hr of driving) and the stadium was so pack and she had to watch life youtube broadcast outside of the stadium, with lots of others like her.If you ever think for a second the main stream media is free of propaganda, have your brain checked,

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:33:19 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 14, 2016, 08:34:27 pmGlad I wasn't the only one scratching their head at this.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 04:49:46 am
content: Looking at the case/clock picture below.1. I wouldn't be surprised if people interpreted the case with the external clock display as a real or an hoax bomb.2. The mains portion of the apparatus, seems unsafe, electricity wise. One of the posts above mentions that he actually plugged it in in school. No surprise if schools object for kids bringing equipment like that to school.As for him reusing an off the shelf clock rather than designing one from scratch, I don't think that that matters. We all started with tinkering.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 05:19:52 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 15, 2016, 01:33:19 amOne of us has a disconnect.I am not seeing the difficulty in imagining that a bomb can be sneaked in piece by piece, and I am sure you can imagine that too. So... why is that a head scratcher?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 05:58:34 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 15, 2016, 04:49:46 amExcept that's not the reason in this case.QuoteThat's sadly part of the story here. Once this fact was "revealed" he got absolutely slammed for the fact that he didn't design it, called a fraud etc when the blog post in question (back to the OP!) went viral, when all he was was a rank beginner tinkerer kid who tried to talk himself up a bit. The whole fraud to-do came about because of the guy who originally wrote this article was calling Ahmed a fraud because he didn't design it himself, and to be fair, technically rightly so because Ahmed did say he "invented" it in this video:But then that spawned a bunch of parody videos on youtube showing people smashing apart clocks and putting them in pencil cases.So if the blog post and viral parody videos hadn't happened and Ahmed did actually design it, then the story would have been fairly different I think. But he got crucified because he wasn't very good, and I think that's sad.When I made my video it was obvious that he didn't design it and that is used some form of off-the-shelf clock parts, but I deliberately didn't mention that because like you said "we all started tinkering".

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 06:38:56 am
content: The not designed it vs. hacked is the right winged media vs. the left wing media spin cycle.Next time something awful happens, place a tv on Fox News (represents the right wing cuckoos) and another on CNN/MSN (representing the left wing media) - and watch as time evolves.It is like measuring an impulse response for mass media. At first (t=0) they have the news - a plane crashed, a suicide bomber exploded, etc. It takes about 30-40 minutes (t=30~40m) to get to a colored spin. Colored left or right. It takes about 90 minutes for the screenwriters to get the Fox or CNN version tied down and into the hands of Hannity, Greta, or CNN anchors and their panel of yes men.By the time the screenwriters had their grab at news - it is no longer news and you are left with the Economist, Frontline, 60 minutes or wading through past news organizations bulletins to figure out the red herrings from the news.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 06:58:23 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 15, 2016, 01:27:06 amThe Trump issue is not about the right wing vs the left wing media. It is about the right wing media figuring out what to with promises. Cutting taxes. Great. How about saving the middle class? If you cut taxes how do you bring back jobs? Can you force Apple to manufacture in the US? How about a simple answer to the fact that the US no longer has the manufacturing lines and plants that can churn out millions of iPhones.Media is bent both sides because it is tough to build a story around his campaign.The promises Trump makes are great. But Nobody can figure out how. Is he that smart?If he was a Kickstarter project everybody here would claim a suspect scam.Perhaps you are right: perhaps he is the greatest politician that ever lived - and can cut taxes for the wealthiest - and yet make the middle class rich again. And increase child support. And send the military to fix ISIS while using the Britons and Putin to do it for him. Perhaps he can get the Mexicans to build a wall and send 12 million Mexicans back and still ensure Broccoli is picked and packed in the fly-over states.Perhaps. But perhaps he is in over his head. Americans may think things can't get worse. Oh hell they can. Ask Europeans or South American. They routinely vote for populist tyrants.He can believe in Bankruptcy laws for his Companies. Can you believe what this means for the US people (and not for billionaires with off shore accounts)?Happy for what this means for Clinton's bank account? Wait till you see what it does to yours. Because the tax cuts have to offset by something. Your bank account looks mighty tempting.And please stop lecturing about the media. The media cannot cover up what he says. They can obfuscate. But a presidential candidate can and must choose priorities. The fact that he either refrains from prioritization or chooses contradicting priorities is a bad sign.And yes - the media you see is f*ud up and biased. I was stationed at an intersection at the first intifada when a press vehicle stopped next to us and set up a shoot - the kids with rocks showed up 10 minutes after the film crews did. It was set up.They were throwing from far away so we stood there bored and after 10 minutes everyone folded.This is also why one can no longer figure out what is up with Ahmed. It is up to the courts. And perhaps a PBS or NPR special to cover it and tell us what each side did and thought.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 07:27:12 am
content: The only reason this arrest made the news is that the person involved is from a Muslim family and is not a white kid.Accusations of racism and islamophobia against the local police and the school district is what got this story blown out of all proportion by the liberal press.The narrative got all sorts of famous people involved, eager to show off their progressive nature, before all the facts were established.It could simply be a case of overreaction by law enforcement and the school administration, erring on the safe side, after so many school incidents in the country.What is disturbing is that the family environment is very political, fueling suspicions of provocation:The father is involved with Muslim activism in the area, with links to CAIR and the Muslim brotherhood, promoting Sharia law in the Irving area.By Ahmed Mohamed's own late admission, the clock pencil case was nothing special, hastily hammered together the evening before school.The father encouraged his son to show the contraption to his teachers, as he dropped him off to school, knowing full well that it was against the school rules.The older sister and brother have had their own brushes with the school administration in the past.The father seeking a huge financial reward ($15 million), shortly after the incident.Hopefully, the pending court case will clarify the matter and establish that the schoolteachers and police were just following protocol.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:32:37 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 15, 2016, 05:19:52 amSo what? Of course it's possible to sneak a bomb in piece by piece but it was obvious it wasn't the dangerous part, otherwise it would have been treated with more caution.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:33:48 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 15, 2016, 05:19:52 amA swing and a miss... Nothing to do with sneaking in a bomb 'piece by by piece'.See the highlighted text above for the cause of the head scratching.If that's still not clear - then let me spell it out..... The 'suicide bomber' tag was introduced and then assigned to theteacher.Can't you see how that might be considered flawed logic?

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:51:00 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 14, 2016, 01:39:11 amFrom clock on a bag to IED there's a huge gap. Considered that it's a your student and he claim to have made a clock I don't really see what's the problem. If it was a bomb, where are the chemicals? It's because it looks bad it's considered a bomb? This is like calming that anyone who owns firearms is going to shoot up some place, or it's plotting against the government or lending the guns to mobs and terrorists to make homicides ( yes, you heard that's what the italian government really think)... It's just madness.The truth is because he's a muslim and anyone just think that muslims are all terrorist, that's what happend and that's what brought this debate and misunderstanding and it was fine, but then the bloody media came and spread this debate nationwide and then worldwide. Considered that there's the run for the white house in the USA and in EU there's one of the biggest humanitarian crysis that's just making the whole EU collapse into itself (aka brexit, grexit), the debate proceeds and just claims that all muslims are terrorist...To fight terror we need to fight ignorance (the media) and hatred (religions) first.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:48:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2016, 11:42:11 amWithout context, this picture can also be seen as the inverse from the time when it was the Islamists that went capturing/emprisoning black man/wives/children to go sell them as slaves to the USA.You know, the ones who are currently described as "African-European dealers" in the political correct media and goverment corrected official history.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 10:05:13 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 15, 2016, 09:48:25 amHow is that relevant? That happened before either of the people in the photograph were born.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:07:24 am
content: "The Trump issue is not about the right wing vs the left wing media. I"Nice to hear all that.Back to the topic: you still think he represents the extreme?

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:26:36 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 15, 2016, 11:07:24 amOf course I do. People want him (after all he promised) to "clean up politics". They want him to get rid of "all the illegal immigrants and thus uphold the law". They also want him to fight ISIS. And they want him to do that while following the GOP dogma of smaller government. They want him to throw Hillary in jail (and perhaps other people they don't like).How do you do that? How do you gather up illegal immegrants? By increasing government? He can't. So perhaps firing the police and building a secret immigration police. So more crime? But he promises less... By leadership apprentice style?That is extreme in my book. Willing to throw away everything for radical rhetoric (as sexy as it is) is the epitome of extreme and dangerous.I am not playing dumb. The Supreme Court will strike down most of what he promises. Also, with luck, he'll have democrats in the houses to teach him the game his companies seem to love where bankruptcy court could save you isn't an option.At that point he'll be even more disappointing than Obama.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 03:12:59 pm
content: "Of course I do. People want him (after all he promised) to "clean up politics". They want him to get rid of "all the illegal immigrants and thus uphold the law". They also want him to fight ISIS. And they want him to do that while following the GOP dogma of smaller government. They want him to throw Hillary in jail (and perhaps other people they don't like). "So Hillary's supporters want currupt politicians in charge, want to get their heads cut off my Isis, want immigration laws and regulations set aside, want to be taken care of, cridle to grave, by a large government, want a different set of rules for the politicians than forbthe rest?If any of them don't want that, Hillary is an extreme left wing nut job?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 04:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on August 15, 2016, 03:55:16 pmAssuming you are white, in the last few hundreds years, your race spearheaded almost any advance in science, energy, technology, art, medicine and democratic way of government. If you insist on adhering to racial identity (I don't), the other races should be greatly grateful to yours.Don't fall into the white guilt trap. It's basically a racist manipulation.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 05:00:06 pm
content: "white guilt"And I think it is reasonable to pin "white guilt" exclusively on white people.And I would further argue that "white guilt" is responsible for many of the mess we have around us today.So in my book, white people messed it up, bit time,

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 05:16:17 pm
content: For a person claiming any race / cultural supremacy there is only one proper question to ask: "That is very nice. And what has been your personal contribution for that?".

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 05:20:48 pm
content: Quote from: Kalvin on August 15, 2016, 05:16:17 pmYou are making things up. Stop it.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 07:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 15, 2016, 08:33:48 amGood choice of quotes hi-lites. (I changed the color so I can see it. For me, pink is good for roses but not reading). From your choice of hi-lites (IED and 911 related, plus the word teacher), I can see the disconnect between us. It was not a flawed logic but a different focus along with bad wording on my part. Disconnect is confusions caused by me.I saw the part about the teacher being the one putting it in the drawer. I saw it as a side track but it reminded me of the suicide bombers M.O. So, I said a few word on it with a poorly worded sentence then on to my main point.I should have expended more words and made the sentence complete: "Oh they don't care about escape, so the bomber would like it that the teacher did not evacuate but instead put it in the drawer. But now on to my main point: In light of 911, how suspicious this kid's activities were?"If it didn't matter enough to me to word it carefully, I should not have included it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 07:57:23 pm
content: Teacher's drawers are very easy to get into. I've had things confiscated from me in past when I was at school and got them back, so if it's dangerous, that's plain stupid.As far as sneaking a bomb into school piece by piece: that's not necessary. There are probably already all the materials required to make a bomb in the school's chemistry lab and there will certainly be plenty of clocks around which could be used as a timer. The idea that a student would go to the trouble of dismantling an alarm clock and putting it into a pencil case, to connect up to a bomb later on is absurd, especially as he showed it to a teacher first!

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 15, 2016, 07:57:23 pmI agree that the parts are probably there already, but still has to be made. But if you go along the path of "sneaking in the bomb a piece at a time", it would merely needs to be assembled and not made which would be time consuming.Quote from: wraper on August 13, 2016, 04:17:02 pmWell, I posit the possibility of it could a part of bomb. I did not posit it was a part made bysmartterrorist.Heck, as the above quote pointed out, there are lots of stuff in the chem lab. Had he saw the movieValkyrieinstead ofPinocchio, he could just made an acid+wire time device - it certainly worked well in Hitler's Eastern Front HQ in so far as timing goes.That it could be part of a bomb is the point. Whether it is a good approach or best choice is another matter entirely.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 10:26:03 pm
content: "It can get to be a bit tedious"Tedious? yes.Effective? Absolutely.Just look at the (white) people falling for it.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 10:29:57 pm
content: "two chopped off a guy’s head "This actually calls for an interesting question on religion vs. State.If I were to start a religion today that calls for beheading of anyone who doesn't follow my religion, how should a government react? IE, are their limits to activities conducted under a religious framework?If the answer is yes, how should the government approach it?

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 10:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 15, 2016, 10:29:57 pmThe Religion of Peace™ have already got that one...

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:04:51 pm
content: "How do you gather up illegal immegrants? By increasing government?"That task, and all others that you find challenging, is easy if you have common sense.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 15, 2016, 10:29:57 pmhow should a government react => become a police statereligious freedom means no other freedoms. Once we become a sharia state then we get both, a police state and no freedom of religion. So for the bean counters, how many countries in the world are currently like this?We will live under the gun (government) but after we will live in heaven with (how many) virginsMy advice would be to teach arabic and sharia law in our schools (in the US) so we can be prepared and help children keep their heads, they can beg for their lives in arabic (my guess this will happen in 300 years - 2/3 of the US population would be needed to change the Constitution). We need to be smart and teach both versions of Islam and how to switch between them depending on who is holding the gun.Any historians out there? My research shows that by 2050 Islam (but I do not know the percent of the two versions - anyone ?) will be the world's number one religion, so nothing is going to stop them. We (non moslems) will have to adapt or die, which in the long run turns out to be a good method of birth control to cut down on overpopulation. Since I am an atheist, I believe all religions contribute to birth control (via wars), so I am not picking on one religion. In fact in history, I would bet Christians are the number one killers (again are there any historians out there, I would love to be wrong). Like the Spanish killing off the Incas.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 12:38:06 am
content: QuoteHe could have tackled global warming / climate change, which evidently is the #1 threat to humanity, starving babies be damned.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:28:17 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 15, 2016, 07:44:30 pmOK. No worries. Glad that is sorted out.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:34:58 am
content: MODERATOR: Please stick to the original topic, this will not be allowed to turn into a religious debate.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 10:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 16, 2016, 01:34:58 amIt's NOT religious, it's totally political. Islam is far more a political ideology than a religion. Hence all the absurd legal tricks in Europe to try and accommodate Sharia Law (oh, just the "nice agreed on bits" for now, slippery slope and all, not the stoning and beheadings, just the subjugation of females and patriarchal family power.) A western girl is unfortunately for her born into one of these families and is abused, married off to a cousin, etc, and denied her independence because Sharia courts are getting their own perverse recognition.TheresaShariaMayand SadiqKhando their best in politics for the so called religion of peace.Religion has nothing to do with politics. This whole Clock Boy thing was to me an expose of the ridiculous Zero Tolerance in USA schools, the kind of shit that could spread overseas. However the MSM and the Islamist fanatic family couldn't wait to turn it into something it wasn't.If Clock Boy was the whitest highest IQ richest male from the best family in that school he would also have got the same Zero Tolerance treatmentBut he certainly wouldn't have had all the subsequent opportunities afforded to Ahmed (which were all denied because he realised he was just a shit pawn in his radical islamist fathers game and only knows the Koran, not The Art of Electronics)

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 11:03:52 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 13, 2016, 04:09:47 pmSelf evidently she did not think it was a bomb?"His English teacher thought the clockresembleda bomb, and she confiscated it and reported him to the school's principal"The Police then investigated this as a case of possessing ahoax bomb:"Under Texas law, it is illegal to possess a "hoax bomb" with an intent to make another believe that the hoax bomb is an explosive or incendiary device"Quote from: EEVblog on August 16, 2016, 01:34:58 amIf this kid was a Methodist, then this wouldn't have gone viral, he would just have been arrested for being a dickhead with a very punchable face.If the incoming hordes on the borders of Europe were Methodist, then Brexit would not have happened, there would have been a few hundred less rapes and Europe's swimming pools would have a few less turds floating in them.So nope, this is nothing to do with "religion" as we understand it, and entirely to do with a medieval political ideology on a collision course with what's left of European culture.The very fact that we are knee deep in our own cultural genocide is that some peoplekeepthinking of this in terms of religion, and wringing their hands saying "oh well, we gotta respect people's religious beliefs, right?"Well no we F***ing don'tbecause this is all about the imposition of an alien political system that is misogynistic, supremacist, homophobic, anti-democratic and even by 15thC standards, clearly batshit insane.And if anyone gives a rats arse about their kid's future, then they need to send this culture back where it came.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 11:37:40 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on August 16, 2016, 10:33:36 pmFine, then no more politics, OK?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 11:40:38 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 16, 2016, 11:03:52 pmI think you know very well what I meant, yet you continued. Please don't do it again.I will not allow this religious and/or political debate to continue here. There are two options, either I lock the thread or I start deleting every post that continues to do it, your choice.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 11:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 16, 2016, 11:40:38 pmI do not think this topic is going anywhere, so my suggestion is to lock it. That way I will not have to use one of my blocks.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 12:29:10 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 16, 2016, 11:40:38 pmIt's important to delineate the differences between the two, a political issue is a matter of taxes and religion is one's choice of sky pixie. A discussion of either is tedious.A discussion of the corrosive effects of islam upon Western democracy isn't something anyone should defer out of politeness, but only as an act of thought policing.I'm OK with either justification for thread locking, I'm just rejecting the concept that islam deserves respect from anyone, because it doesn't.I'm also concerned that ez24 will run out of blocks :|

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 12:58:09 am
content: I was wondering - what are the problems in having religious and political sections? Too much bandwidth? They could be placed under the General section.Here are a couple topics we could start with:How does god feel about the STM32?Do you think politicians would pass a lie detector (if it was calibrated)?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:53:43 am
content: 'How does god feel about the STM32?''Which moron designed the external interrupt module on those chips?'

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 02:41:05 am
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 17, 2016, 12:29:10 amOh FFS, do you not get it?I said no more, yet here you go again, seriously

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 02:43:55 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 17, 2016, 12:58:09 am1) It encourages hate between users, no good can come from it2) It pollutes the statistics. Guaranteed that threads on politics, religion or guns, if gone unchecked would dominate the Top 10 list of most popular threads.I do not want new people coming to this forum and hitting "Show unread posts since last visit" and find these threads always coming up in the first page.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 02:55:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 16, 2016, 11:40:38 pmIf you close this thread the terrorists win.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:03:25 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 17, 2016, 12:58:09 amThe lie detector would need to have a logarithmic scale, for sure.Anyway, the only time a politician tells the truth is when they call another politician a liar.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:08:57 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 17, 2016, 02:55:46 amI see no smiley there, so, Bullshit.If I lock this thread then the forum wins.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:10:20 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on August 16, 2016, 10:33:36 pmLast time I looked at the English flag it had the crosses of 3 church "saints" on it.And on the back row of a chess board, have a look at who is cozying up to the king and queen while encouraging the expendable ones out to battle.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:14:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2016, 03:08:57 amI vote to lock it. The catch-cry"If you close this thread the terrorists win"is crap.It's going nowhere relevant for an EE forum.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:39:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2016, 03:08:57 amSmileys are for the humorous challenged.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 07:58:19 am
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 16, 2016, 11:03:52 pmThen the question comes down to intent and going from what was reported, there was no intent. It was a heavy handed application of the law, which if anything, seemed to follow the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law.The law was most likely intended to punish people who deliberately make a device resembling a bomb, in order frighten people or disrupt the lives of others. If he pretended it was a bomb and teacher really did think it was a bomb and evacuated the school, only later on discovering it to be a hoax, then that would be a valid application of law.The student said it was a clock from day one and the teacher clearly didn't believe it was a bomb, so clearly no felony was committed.There's a similar law here in the UK about imitation firearms but it only applies if one is using them to threaten or scare people. There's a difference carrying a fake gun in one's bag for use as a stage prop and using it to hold up a bank.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:33:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2016, 03:08:57 am+1 to lock this tread. Terrorists win when they have appearance in mass media and cause fear among the masses. If their doings were not made public, most of them just wouldn't exist because there wouldn't be a point in that.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:35:37 am
content: QuotePer the description of the offtopic forum:QuoteAs such it seems OK to discuss your automatic cat feeder, neighbors wifi usage, automated cabbage production, as well as the occasional politics, religion, dolphin mating habits and miscellany other things as well, but I can understand if the moderators do not wish some topics here as it might create bad blood between users.I do see this thread as interesting and I would not like to see it locked.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:36:20 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 17, 2016, 07:58:19 amYes. At the time that photo was taken, it was clear to both teacher and police that there was no bomb and there was no danger.No need to handcuff an adult for that, let alone a kid.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:37:00 am
content: Lock the thread, getting a bit fed up with politics and religion dominating a EE forum and generating the wrong type of visits....

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 11:43:25 am
content: 'No need to handcuff an adult for that, let alone a kid.'Well, that's fine I'd thats the law in the freatvstate of jancumps.In the state of Texas where the incident took place, apparently a different set of laws exists.So if you want t afford the kid and his family your set of laws, take them home to the great state of janucumps.Everyone will live happily ever after.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 12:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 17, 2016, 08:33:24 amI'm pretty sure that media censorship and SJW Thought Policing is also win for terroristsAs for "bad blood", that's vastly over rating my care capacity and ability to remember other people's opinions on a random topic.BTW, handcuffing everyone is Police policy, they only have discretion for minors under 12Quote from: Hero999 on August 17, 2016, 07:58:19 amHe's from a family of islamic loons, it would be naive to believe anything he said.For the record, I don't believe anything a family of Scientologists would say either.QuoteThat's what zero policy means, so yep.This is how the American school system implements their zero tolerance policy right nowhttp://listverse.com/2015/10/10/10-ridiculous-instances-of-zero-tolerance-in-schools/but hey it's their country and they can do what they want, they put a lander on Mars so I've got nothing bad to say.Quotethat's a misinterpretation.If he makes something that looks like a bomb, someone sees it and thinks "that looks like a bomb", then that's all that is required.I don't need a terrorist to pretend or confirm he has a bomb or not, I simply need to react (with alarm) to the possibility. He could have crammed the rear of the case with C4 for all I know.The law simply prosecutes fuctards who think it is cool to make something that looks like a bomb.The law also covers those who laughingly say bomb at an airport, zero intent, 100% fuctard.QuoteNo, the teacher thought itresembleda bomb (which it clearly did in movie iconography) and that's enough for the Police to investigate it as ahoaxbomb case.Remember he deliberately plugged it in during class so it would beep. That's a moron fuctard level of 999 right there.Look into his school history, he levels up to 999 quite frequently

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:07:07 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 17, 2016, 12:29:50 pmHis family's religion should make no difference, unless you're a bigot.QuoteThe same could be said about Vietnam, China and North Korea. They can do what the hell they like. It's their county. Of course that doesn't make it right.QuoteNo you're misinterpreting it. If what you've said is true, then that means anyone who makes something which looks like a bomb is committing a crime, which must mean the designers of many film sets are all criminals.QuoteAh movie iconography which is illegal, if what you say is true.QuoteNo, that would make him a naughty schoolboy who just wants to disrupt the class: no need to call the police!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:29:15 pm
content: So many opinions ... so much conviction ... so little evidence.While the 'General Chat' description might make way for the discussion of anything - the Op started this thread on the subject of the clock's origins.Tell me how this discussion has remained faithful to that subject.IMO - Lock the thread

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:47:51 pm
content: With the arguments presented against locking the thread and the discussions based on the same arguments of six months ago (and full of opinions and hearsay), I would also vote for locking it. This is resembling the FTDI thread...

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:48:12 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 17, 2016, 01:07:07 pmI think the word "loons" was the key point,and being unable to prove something that is a reasonable assumption is what has made Anjem Choudary so hard to prosecute.QuoteThe first time we thought we were right we ended up invading Iraq and killing a few million muslims. The second time we bombed Libya and displaced a few million muslims, then we bombed Syria and did much the same.So how is our track record of helping other countries "do the right thing" looking?Empirically whatever more successful countries are doing is probably the right thing for their situation, the fact that toilet countries still imagine that they have a better plan for the world is fundamentally the problem behind this thread.QuoteWhy would I look at a film set and be alarmed? I already know it is fiction.A look-alike bomb in a school setting is not a fiction, there is fundamentally a possibility that it is real and so alarm (and a lawful response to that alarm) is justified.QuoteIn the UK before the 90's maybe, but in America right now with a long history of school terrorism? The kid is a level 999 fuctard if he expected any other response.Which is clearly what his Islamist Father was counting on $$$Brumby give it a rest eh? it's far easier for you to block the topic than to repeatedly post you want it locked.Dave can do what he likes, he doesn't need to justify anything to us.

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 01:55:06 pm
content: InB4 locking.The kid was trolling, they bit.Usefull idiots see him as a victim and pretend he is a actual electronic enthusiast, "I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.". May be he has interesting other projects; but that clock in a box is more movie props building than electronic engineering.So there are some lies from the kid, and some over reaction from authorities. Nobody wins.Father played the minority victim and flounced to Religionistan for the kid to learn about magic sky wizards and stuff "I felt good being able to learn my religion because it wasn't an opportunity I had here in the US." - "Mohamed added that he missed the diversity in America". Well of course, you can't expect theocracies to attract people from other magic sky wizards franchises.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:06:24 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 17, 2016, 01:48:12 pmWho said anything about changing things in other countries by war? It certainly wasn't me. The authorities in China, Cuba and the US do bad things but I certainly wouldn't advocate overthrowing them.QuoteHow the hell do you think a fake bomb gets on to a film set? It needs to be transported there in the first place.What if it was really supposed to be a fake bomb to be used in a school theatre production?It's a completely unjustified and unlawful response. He was charged with possessing a hoax bomb with intent. The last part is important: intent and clearly there was none. He said it was a clock from the start.QuoteThe fact that terrorists are causing the US authorities to adopt such paranoid and draconian policies is a sign they're winning. Oh, shit, someone looks like a terrorist, call the police! Now the police can do what they want with them and they no longer have the usual rights, such as legal representation.Terrorism isn't much of a threat anyway. It kills few people, compared to car accidents, gun crime and infectious diseases. Terrorism is just an excuse to justify draconian policies.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:24:10 pm
content: Terrorism isn't much of a threat anyway. It kills few people, 'Unless you or your loved ones re one of those few.'compared to car accidents, gun crime and infectious diseases. 'None of that matches those killed by criminals. Maybe that's something we all can focus on instead?Not to mention the number 1 killer: aging.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:35:01 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 17, 2016, 03:06:24 pmI kinda think you are looking for situations where a fake bomb could be considered normal? I can't see the point in debating this.QuoteNo, you are just presenting your opinion as fact again, it was lawful as hoax bombs are illegal.No, he was only arrested on "suspicion of making a hoax bomb", that's it, he wasn't subsequently charged with anything.How is it clear there was no intent? The son of a known islamist brings a hoax bomb to school and sets it off beeping in class? Are you suggesting that for not one second it crossed his mind that what he was doing looked a teeny-tiny bit like a bomb? Surely as a muslim in an American zero tolerance school he might have been a bit more clued up on the current Zeitgeist.That's about as bright as carrying a rucksack full of wires onto the London Underground."oh, Police shot him in the face, how sad, never mind"QuoteAmerica's Zero Tolerance school policies were introduced in 1994 as a method of combating gun possession, nothing to do with Merkel's children.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 17, 2016, 03:06:24 pmNo, we didn't kill a few millions of Muslims. Please don't use this forum to spread propaganda.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 04:15:18 pm
content: 'we didn't kill a few millions of Muslims. 'That's literally true and substantively false.Us forces certainly didn't kill millions of Muslims.Us policies howerev have contributed substantively to the hardship of Muslims there. We destabilized iraq, Libya, Yemen, egypt (thank God for theilitary coup), and now Syria. The Arab spring has been nothing but uitigated disaster.Your refutation sounds hollow, and are more inline with althe responses from blm and the Clinton news network (on Trump's claim that Obama and Clinton founded isis) than the substance.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 04:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 17, 2016, 12:58:09 amThe new London Mayor took 2 million of taxpayers money to sue everybody that is un-enthousiast about his hatereligion.It's become dangerous to speak un-corrected.Especially for people who were forced and sucked into the Twitter/Facebook "environment" for their business.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 04:49:16 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 17, 2016, 03:35:01 pmYes there are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for possessing fake weapons.QuoteYes hoax bombs are illegal but fake bombs are not. There's a difference between the two.QuoteOh good, he wasn't charged. He shouldn't have even been arrested in the first place. The police should have left the school without him, once they realised he was not a threat.QuoteExcept it wasn't a hoax bomb. It was the innards of an alarm clock and he told the teacher it was. If he'd claimed it was a bomb, then it would have became a hoax bomb but he made no such claim.QuoteJust shows the paranoia the terrorists have stirred up. There are all sorts of reasons for carrying a rucksack of wire around. I've done the same thing before (they were tossing some off-cuts of solid core wire at work and let me take them home) but because I'm white with a British accent I don't have any problems.QuoteI don't get your reference to Merkel's children?I suppose I'm criticising the, the US's zero tolerance school policies, more than this specific case. It's not like they've even cut school shootings. It still happens, just as much now as it did back then. All that's changed is the police get called for stupid things, the children suffer and time is wasted.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 06:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 17, 2016, 03:49:28 pm1 Notice how you had to change to discussion from killing to 'inconvenience'.2 it was mostly Muslims that killed Muslims once we toppled their dictator.Compare for example with Italy, Germany and Japan after ww2. They built their countries rather than mass murdering each other.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 01:52:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2016, 02:43:55 amWhat more is there to be said?Quote from: StuUK on August 17, 2016, 08:37:00 amOK - maybe that.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 04:50:04 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 17, 2016, 06:50:04 pmThe US had the Marshall plan for Europe and after WWII. $12b to rebuild Europe ($120b in todays money). Forgot about it for the Arab spring....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 04:55:03 am
content: Well done everyone, the thread is now locked thanks to DannyF, Hero999 and Zapta, you just wouldn't listenI can't ban people from threads, so it's either heavily moderate this thread forever, ban people from the forum outright, or lock it.