Microscope - where to buy - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:03:07 pm
content: Good evening friends of the forum. Sorry for my of malicious by google translator;)I would be willing to purchase a stereo microscope to work with SMD.Unfortunately I do not understand how the discourse of the lenses, zoom etc.My doubt is that, I would do with the stereo microscope and meanwhile welded with both welder with hot air, as loius Rossman in his videos.my doubt is the working distance between these two products Amscope SM-4TZ or SM-4TPI wanted to know if the model with 90X zoom is suitable to work or do I take that to 45X? my doubt is always for the working distance because I would like to settle and meanwhile see the components. That is fine as well as 90X that is enough for me zoom out simply?I thank you for your eventual answer

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:13:36 pm
content: 10x is the most you will need for SMD work. And AmScope SE400-Z is may personal recommendation for an affordable, but usable microscope for SMD work.But yours are better if in the price range. Both of them will have good working distance, but with TZ you can only use camera or eyepieces, but not both at the same time. So if this is important, then TP is a way to go.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:27:01 pm
content: I thank you for your answer, then 90 x are too many to work or to inspect smd?I take this opportunity to ask one other thing, I see that there are models that have 3.5X-90X or 7X-90X, what are the differences?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: robgerr on December 12, 2016, 10:27:01 pmYep. At 100x we were studying live cells in school5-10x is a normal working magnification. For something extremely small you may use 20x, but it is uncomfortable, everything becomes too shaky.Quote from: robgerr on December 12, 2016, 10:27:01 pmNo idea, probably just different optical configurations.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:42:44 pm
content: I don't have much experience with microscopes, but as for magnification, I think 10x is plenty for doing SMD work, and for inspection, you may be able to justify a bit more, but probably no more than 15-20x.If you are soldering under the microscope, 10X or less is probably best. 10x is also generally plenty for inspection, but the extra detail of a little more magnification could be useful in some circumstances or just generally interesting. I certainly think 45x or more is way overkill for SMD work. An 0201 part is .6mm long, so at 10x the detail would be comparable to a 6mm long part by eye, like a through hole 1/4W resistor - plenty to inspect a solder joint or look for damage on the part. And unless you have the fancy pick and place equipment to do parts that small, you're unlikely to even need to inspect such tiny parts.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:02:19 pm
content: ok I took a look and the difference and on the lenses, one assembles these:One Pair of Super Widefield 10X Eyepieceswhile the other mounts these:One 0.5X Barlow Lensthat is the difference between the two lenses? changing the working distance without sacrificing the zoom? with a mean distance between the PCB and the stereomicroscope

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:08:28 pm
content: It does not matter much separate from the rest of the optical path. Barlow lens is better in theory, providing bigger working distance. But Barlow lens in this case will give reduction in magnification, so there must be greater magnification before this lens.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:23:39 pm
content: Bigger working distance and wider field of view.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on December 12, 2016, 11:23:39 pmto which model do you mean?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:00:51 am
content: It is what x0.5 lens gives you.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:03:10 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 12, 2016, 10:13:36 pmSo, of these two at Amazon, which would you suggest? The differences is one comes with 5x and 10x lenses, the other with 10x and 20x lenses. I have been thinking about a microscope for years but, at this price, I can probably buy something for xmas.https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=amscope+se400-z

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:04:37 am
content: ok thank you, and to work with more distance is better to take a Barlows lens 0.5this model is more suitable perhapshttp://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-simul-focal-stereo-zoom-microscope-on-dual-arm-boom-stand.html

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:06:23 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 13, 2016, 12:03:10 amThat depends whether you want to have video work at the same time as eyepieces. If you don't plan on buying and using a video camera, then SE400-Z is a good alternative. If you need to use the camera, then TP is the only option. You can buy different magnification eyepieces later anyway.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:08:11 am
content: Quote from: robgerr on December 13, 2016, 12:04:37 amSE400-Z with 10x lens has 6" of working distance. How much bigger you need it to be?Bigger field of view is useful, but may not justify 2x price increase.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:12:37 am
content: I thank you and I do not know these products and their scope as magnifying

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 07:18:05 am
content: Quote from: robgerr on December 12, 2016, 10:03:07 pmSince you mentioned Louis Rossman, you may want to check his video below.As other said, X4-X10 is the useful range for SMD. The Barrlow lens will increase the working distnace but will also raise the eyepiece so you need to make sure it's OK with the ergonomic of your bench and chair. I use an Amscope with a X1 barlow (to protect the lense) and an happey with the working distance. Louis uses a microscope with a third exit for a camera, you may or may not need it. Overall, going from a non microscope to a microscope, even an ebay or Amscope cheapos is a huge step up.

author: anman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 08:20:34 am
content: I'm using for daily repairing mobile phones model microscopeYAXUN AK01- good value for money. Long working distance allows easily work as a soldering iron and a fanIn this regard, first of all you need to determine why there is a microscope of SMD to work with, or for the "fun of Hollywood"Alternative -low price of a microscope

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 08:59:40 am
content: For PCB work you DEFINITELY want to trade off high zoom for more working distance. (using the 0.5x barlow lens).I got my microscope from aliexpress (luckyzoom seller)https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-3-5X-90X-50-50-SPLIT-SIMUL-FOCAL-MICROSCOPE-DOUBLE-BOOM-STAND-TRINOCULAR-STEREO/32662991730.html(you can get it for half that price if you dont need the movable stand, but it is nice to be able to swing it in/out as needed)If you want the tinocular output for a camera consider getting the simulfocus version which allows both eyes and the camera output at once.Non-simulfocus units have a knob that switches between one eyepiece and the camera port.

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 03:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 12, 2016, 10:13:36 pmForgive me for jumping onto this thread, but I recently found something like this on a local market stall and picked it up for 30GBP. Mine is branded Motic, is probably an earlier version of their SL40 model, and it looks almost identical to the AmScope SE400-Z except the lamp is missing. The optical assembly itself, including eyepieces and that box shaped stereo objective assembly look identical. The design of the stand is also identical but mine has an output for incandescent, rather than LED lighting, although apparently it can support both. Eyepieces are marked 10x/20 but the objective is 4x which would provide 40x magnification.It would seem that in Europe, 'Bresser Biorit ICD CS Stereo Microscope', fromwww.bresser.deis also the same thing. I suspect that these may all even be made by Bresser and are simply re-branded products.At 40x magnification, I get a very close up detailed view of individual SMD components, but the distance of the objective from the board is about 5-7cm, which leaves far too little space to work with. I have just ordered a Bresser 1x objective and I'm hoping it will fit.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bresser-Biorit-ICD-Microscope-Objective-1x-Magnification-/162158604791?hash=item25c167f1f7:g:KuAAAOSwENxXmgwYIn the meantime, I can confirm that although with 40x you get a very close up view which is good for examining individual components and tracks in detail, it is too much magnification to actually work on SMD boards with!

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 04:59:32 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 13, 2016, 08:59:40 amWell, SE400-Z at 10x magnification has > 6" of working distance, which is plenty. Wider field of view is a better thing to fight for here.Quote from: WaveyDipole on December 13, 2016, 03:00:33 pmI'm not an expert on microscopes, so I have no idea.

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 05:32:49 pm
content: My eyepieces are prefixed with just 'W' rather than 'WF' but hopefully these do have a wide view which I agree would be important. You need adequate magnification to see clearly, but no so much that the view becomes too narrow to work with and vibrates with the slightest touch!I've just edited my previous post to indicate that I have now purchased that 1x objective. Here's hoping that it will give me that 6'' of clearance!

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 03:04:12 pm
content: My Bresser objective arrived yesterday, but it does not fit. Otherwise it looks identical but slightly bigger. It would seem that although these differently branded instruments look the same and as though they have come out of the same factory, it would seem that the fittings vary. For the ops benefit I would like to mention that that the x1 objective would have provided me with with approximately 8in (20cm) of space to work with. The magnification would have been fine. Its a shame it didn't fit.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 05:02:08 am
content: Microscopes were discussed here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/please-recommend-a-microscope-for-up-close-pcb-work-$200-$50-or-so/BerniceQuote from: robgerr on December 12, 2016, 10:03:07 pm

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 05:27:23 am
content: To break it down:Amscope stereo zoom miscroscope with standard 10x eyepiece give 7x - 45x zoom.If the scope comes with a 0.5x Barlow lens, the scope will be advertised as 3.5-45X. But it will only give you 3.5x-22.5X with the barlow on there. And 7x-45x with the barlow removed. The barlow will DOUBLE the focal distance, increasing working distance and also double the maximum field of view.7x-90x means is comes with a 2x barlow, which is useless for electronics. Again, 7-45x without the barlow, and 14-90x with the 2x barlow attached, halving the focal distance and halving the maximum field of view.SM-4TZ described as 3.5-90x. If you read description, it comes with both a 0.5x barlow AND a 2x barlow. And light ring.SM-4TP is the same thing but does not come with any barlow lenses nor any light ring.Since an Amscope 0.5x Barlow costs $50.00, here, in US - and light ring with PSU another 65.00ish, I suspect you want to buy the SM-4TZ and put the 0.5X barlow on there. Toss the 2x lens in a drawer. This is more or less the setup most of us use. But do the math for yourself.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 05:57:33 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 17, 2016, 05:27:23 amFollow this advice and you will not be disappointed! It's a great combination.

author: Dino KL0S
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 10:37:41 pm
content: I'm getting ready to get one as well. If you're planning on being able to use a camera with a trinocular scope make sure you consider getting a "simul focal" model that allows you to continue to use both eyepieces when engaging a camera. Otherwise you lose the left eyepiece capability when you want to use your camera.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 02:37:00 pm
content: I thank you for your answers. In any case it would be more wise to come to this point with a 90x 3.5x Barlow lens to get a good magnification and good working distance. My intention is to be observed as small SMD resistors to see if they are burned or not, or to work with qfn and hot air at the same time (which is why I need the working distance)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:20:49 pm
content: 0.5x barlow will give 3.5x-22.5X on an Amscope. Yeah, that is the one you want. The 3.5x-90x model comes with 2 barlow lenses, which for the price is fine, too.0.5x barlow installed: 3.5x-22.5xno lens installed: 7x-45x2x istalled: 14x-90xAmscope also makes a 0.3x Barlow. But working distance will be too high for most practical purposes, unless you are much taller than the average bear.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 12:46:02 pm
content: Sorry if you solve this old topic, as I still have to take the stereomicroscope, I wanted a board advice, should I take single arm boom stand or dual arm boom stand? In practice, what would be the differences in use?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 06:15:25 pm
content: A dual arm stand is more stable and the linear ball bearings make it easier to move.In the case of Amscope, do note that there's been a scoring/galling issue on the shafts due to using too soft a grade of steel (uses linear bearings, which require hardened steel). They've worked with their customers in solving this however; and even though it will require some effort* on your part, it's still worth it IMHO.* They'll reimburse you for the hardened 20mm diameter steel shaft. Get one~55"/1400mm32"/813mm long, and cut one piece the length of the existing upper arm shaft, and the remaining piece will be the right length for the lower arm.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 09:28:31 pm
content: They pretended not to know about the bearing issue when I asked them on ebay. They said they didn't see any reviews or have any tickets about the issue. I originally heard about it on amazon, but when I went back through my browser history I couldn't find the review in question, and some of the listings had disappeared. I hope it was just a mistake on my end and that they aren't actually playing the "make a ton of listings, delete ones with bad reviews" game, but they sure have a lot of listings, their listings never have reviews about the bearing issue, and discussions on 3rd party forums they don't control (eevblog, youtube, personal blogs) always seem to bring it up with near 100% certainty. One might say the optics are bad, but it's probably not a good metaphor in a discussion about microscopes.I made my first microscope purchase without understanding the distinction between trinocular and simul-focal, so I'm kinda/sorta in the market. Unfortunately amscope doesn't seem to have a lot of similarly priced competition even though they sure aren't an OEM. I suppose I'll just hold out for now.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 09:46:32 pm
content: Regarding the arm, I have a boom dyi one, good enough, but I ended up not using it.Most of the PCBs are small enough, and the boom arm was too heavy, and it took to much space on the bench. The normal support works just fine for me, and I can easily move the whole microscope, and put it away when not in use.If you plan to work on big PCBs, like a PC motherboard or so, then you might want a boom arm. Otherwise, any boom arm is very bulky.

author: robgerr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 11:26:17 pm
content: Thank you for your answers. Just today I sent a message to the amscope seller on ebay to ask for information on the bearing problem and put me in place that no one ever complained, reported or opened tickets for this problem. Boh, ok they have to sell rightly, but if there is a problem and we buyers know, what sense does it hide? As for the stand, the dual draws me but I'm afraid if it becomes too cumbersome, not much space for the stereomicroscope

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2017, 02:32:04 am
content: Perhaps they'll only work with customers after they've actually bought one.I'll see if I can get ahold of them this week and see what's up (still in the process of dealing with mine; it's still in the box). Worst case, I'll have to eat the cost of the rod, which isn't all that expensive (~$16 + shipping fromVXBfor those in the US).BTW, theReview: AmScope 3.5x-45x Boom Stereo Microscopearticle on TechniToys is how I found out about the issue with the dual arm boom stand and how to fix it.I also re-read the linked article above, and the length of the rod is 32"/813mm, not 55"/1400 (sorry about that; will correct in the previous post). Link to the hardened 20mm rod is for the correct length.