Is 220V same as dryer/stove? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Merlysys
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2014, 04:21:01 pm
content: (I am in Canada, we have the same electrical system as USA 110/120V, this post applies to single phase equipment only.)Can household electrical equipment made to run on 220V be plugged into the dryer or stove outlet in USA without much modification? My dryer receptacle has 2 hot 110V line wires and a ground while the stove one has those plus a neutral wire.What will I see if I stick the scope into those 2 hot wires? Like the waveforms below?------------------------This came up as I am thinking of buying an ATTEN-852D for desoldering work, the unit runs on 220V and is not switchable to 110V so I am hoping it will work when plugged into the dryer receptacle.http://www.atten.eu/atten-852d-reflow-station.htmlIs this good for typical day to day work on both thru-hole and SMD stuff?Seller wants $130 and its new, is the price reasonable?

author: KDC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2014, 04:39:58 pm
content: On that site it says that it takes 110/220 input, which should mean that the power supply is rated to take either.If you stick the scope on the 2 hots you'll only see one sine wave, to get 2, you need to view each of the hots to neutral.

author: commongrounder
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2014, 04:50:18 pm
content: From a purely electrical standpoint, the dryer/stove receptacles have the correct voltage to run a 220 volt device. But, from a practical standpoint, you should have a properly wired 15 or 20 amp branch circuit with proper type receptacle. A dryer receptacle is usually overcurrent protected at 30 amps and a stove receptacle can be 60 amps! A fault in your station wiring and you would have a fire in moments. The best option, if you bought the 220v station, would be a 110v to 220v step-up transformer. It would have the proper fusing and energy levels for your application.And on a different front, that is not a particularly good price for that station. It is available under several brand names for less. For example, MCM Electronics in Ohio, sells their Tenma brand exact same version of this unit for $99.99 USD. Catalog #21-11410.Best of luck, and be careful!

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2014, 08:03:55 pm
content: Your graphs show only 120V peak to peak. Line voltage is described in RMS values. There is a big difference, I'm leaving it up to you to find out what it is if you don't already know. But you are right in the idea that the two hot wires of the 230V circuit are 115V referenced to neutral/ground, and are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Think center-tapped secondary transformer on the pole with the center tap grounded and tied to neutral at the breaker panel.There are other appliances you may find in a home that use 230V besides the oven and dryer, for example larger window air conditioners or power tools like a table saw. For the different current levels different outlets and plugs are specified by national electrical codes.It's not uncommon to run a new 230V 20A or higher protected circuit to the workbench area for things like RF power amplifiers, machine tools, etc. and use these outlet styles.That all aside, I agree with the other posters that you should find a 120V powered station rather than have to mess around with transformers, rewiring or anything that could potentially injure or cause a fire.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2014, 08:42:59 pm
content: Hi Merlysys,I also live in Canada.If you carefully check the duplex outlets in your kitchen with a DMM, you will probably find that the outlets measure 115 between neutral and hot. But you can measure 230V between the two hots. This is because in the kitchen by using two 15A circuits you can use a kettle on one circuit and a toaster on the other without tripping the breaker.On the breaker panel there will be some double breakers.You can get outlets with the pins side ways for the 230V. I changed some of mine to 230V so I could use imported appliances. See the pictures posted by Rory.This doesn't help you in the rest of the house, and it is a lot of trouble just to use a reflow station. I bought my reflow station from Fry's in California and it was wired for 110V.Jay_Diddy_B

author: gxti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2014, 10:02:47 pm
content: One thing that probably won't bother you is that equipment connected to a split-phase system will not have a "neutral" that is near earth potential. Earthed equipment will be safe in this condition but could potentially malfunction or blow a fuse.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 06:34:09 am
content: In the US and undoubtedly in other countries as well, the plugs that Rory shows and a whole host of others are designed for individual Voltage and Current levels. This is to insure that each type of electrical device is connected to a circuit that is designed for it. As was said, if you plug a low current device into a circuit that can supply a much higher current, there is a very real danger that a defect in that device could cause a fire or shock hazard. So this must be avoided. The various plugs and sockets are designed to do this.The common 15 A, 115 V circuit is the lowest level in this system and is intended to cover all devices at that Voltage with all current levels up to 15 A. The 20 A, 115 V circuit is a small step up from there and has a socket that is compatible with 15 A and lower currents. Apparently it was felt that this was OK. But when you step up to 25 or 30 Amps, that compatibility is no longer present and lower current devices can not be plugged in. Even though adapters would be fairly easy to construct, they are not legal under the code. They are dangerous and should not be used.Likewise for higher Voltage circuits. So, a "dryer" circuit is standardized at the Voltage and current level commonly used for electric dryers. It not really limited to dryers and it is perfectly OK to plug any other device that needs that Voltage and current level into a "dryer" outlet. But not ones that use less or more Voltage or current. Likewise for all the various outlet/plug configurations.This page shows some of the configurations of plugs and sockets:http://www.mcmaster.com/#nema-connectors/=qggnukBe safe: follow the code.

author: MLXXXp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 03:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on January 29, 2014, 06:34:09 amSo how come there aren't special outlets for my tiny phone charger, or any other "wall wart", that I currently can plug into an outlet that can supply much higher currents. Isn't that a fire or shock hazard?All properly designed products should have their own internal fuse, breaker, or other circuitry to prevent currents higher than what they can safely handle. In the UK, and some other countries, fuses are built directly into the plug that goes into the outlet.The breaker or fuse in the panel is intended to protect mainly the wiring and outlets on that circuit itself from overloads and shorts. Equipment plugged into the circuit should protect itself. There's no reason that a properly designed and certified lower current device shouldn't be used on a higher current circuit than it was designed for (at the correct voltage, of course). The reason that a stove has a different plug than a dryer is so you can't plug the stove into an outlet that can't handle its current requirements, not to prevent the dryer from being plugged into the higher current stove outlet. This is why some 20A outlets are designed to also accept standard 15A plugs (but the 20A plug for these outlets won't go into a 15A outlet).

author: MLXXXp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 04:28:06 pm
content: Quote from: MLXXXp on January 29, 2014, 03:19:09 pmUpon further thought, I'm going to argue against myself and say that it may not be a good idea to use even properly designed equipment on a circuit higher that it was designed for, by just putting a different plug on it, or making a simple adapter. This is because a problem with any part of the equipment before the protection circuitry could be a hazard. For instance, a clock radio could have an internal fuse for protection but if a short occurred in its thin power cord, before the fuse, the higher current capability of the power circuit could heat up and burn the cord instead of tripping the panel breaker or fuse.If I wanted to do something like what the O.P. is asking, I would build an adapter box with the proper plug and wire gauge on the input, wired to an outlet of the proper type for the device, protected by a fuse or breaker rated lower than the outlet specifications. I'd put this in a properly grounded metal case. Note that, although likely safe, doing such a thing may not be legal.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 06:18:06 pm
content: If your looking for a soldering iron in Canada (ebay version) try this guy out I pick up one of these 2 years ago and it's going fine... As always with chinese gear open it up and check it out, screws tight soldering good, fused, grounded and so on.http://stores.ebay.ca/EPROM-Programmer/GQ-SMD-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-/_i.html?_fsub=151231119&_sid=101150119&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322I have the 952 from this guy and it has over 1000 hours on it for sure with no issues (temp reading was off by 10 degrees but easy to adjust). I did find a couple loose screws so worth the effort to check.

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 07:02:55 pm
content: I bought an 858D from weberdisplays, I'm very happy with it. Having the blower in the handpiece isn't a problem, and the cable is easier to deal with than a cable and air hose.http://www.ebay.ca/sch/weberdisplays/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 09:34:52 pm
content: I think you answered your own question. I was trying to say that the common 15 Amp circuit that we use about 99.9% of the time is the smallest, catch all size circuit. They had to have some lower range. And I am sure that manufacturers are eager to use that common size to decrease the cost and difficulty of using their devices. So many, many devices are in that range and it becomes even more common.There have been fires that started with faulty wiring or devices on 15 A circuits, but it could have happened on 10 A circuits and probably on 5 A ones too. Where do you stop. In fact, as you point out, the wire or cord leading to the device is probably the most common source of such problems. Some countries use fused plugs for this very reason. Fused plugs would be a nice change at this point. But then again, modern cords are a lot more durable than those of 50 years ago. In fact, I often salvage the power cord off a piece of electric equipment before throwing it away. The supposedly wise men of days gone by picked 15 Amps. and we are stuck with it.The wisdom or lack of it in that choice does not negate the basic idea of matching the devices to the circuit for maximum safety. But there are practical considerations also. No one would like it if they had to pay an electrician to install a precisely matched circuit every time they purchased a new electrical device. So compromises are necessary.Paul A.Quote from: MLXXXp on January 29, 2014, 04:28:06 pm