Solar freaking wind turbine blades - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2023, 06:13:13 pm
content: https://electrek.co/2023/06/30/solar-panels-wind-turbine-blades/(not as ridiculous as it may sound)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2023, 06:47:38 pm
content: It surprises me that there is so little reuse of used wind turbine blades. They're made of sturdy fiberglass and large sections are more or less flat. Seems like they'd work well for building fences and retaining walls, roofs for garden sheds, playground equipment, or numerous other things. Might even work to make a canoe or kayak out of part of one.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2023, 07:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 04, 2023, 06:47:38 pm"flat"https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/gamesa.jpg

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2023, 09:14:33 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 04, 2023, 06:13:13 pmNot quite, but still funny.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 12:00:07 am
content: I know my sense of humor is twisted, but the first thing that came to my mind was a newspaper headline:Storm news: Hapless pedestrian decapitated by a panel from a solar wind turbine

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 02:33:25 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on July 04, 2023, 07:02:47 pmThere's a huge flat section there, it looks to be at least 6' wide before curving, just cut it off right ahead of the curve and you've got something similar to a sheet of plywood.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 05:26:10 am
content: Large, moving structure, engineered to be as light and rigid as possible. Add extra weight, reduce structural strength. WCPGW?

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 12:38:29 pm
content: Utter nonsense.Same topic: A radio news a couple of days ago was on the same level - solar panels on agricultural areas. Just raise the panels like 10m up into the air with giant steel constructions, so farmers can drive below them.The worst thing: They are dead serious about this concept.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 04:34:13 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on July 05, 2023, 12:38:29 pmHope they're only planning to grow mushrooms...

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 05:00:21 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on July 05, 2023, 12:38:29 pmWhy shouldn't they be serious about it?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 05:05:37 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on July 04, 2023, 07:02:47 pmThat's a really great picture for putting into context just how big those things are. They look so much slimmer from a distance. Most of these blades are so badly chewed up along the leading edge they aren't much use for anything needing a cosmetic finish after they are dismantled.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 06:23:36 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 05, 2023, 05:00:21 pmMost agricultural crops do not grow well in shade, and require lots of direct sunlight.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 06:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 05, 2023, 06:23:36 pmWhile that's true, there are many crops which do better with moderate levels of shade in many places, because they originate in cooler climates. There is no one size fits all in agriculture.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 06:38:57 pm
content: My knowledge of agriculture is close to zero but I heard you cant grow same thing over and over again each year, you must rotate the spieces to not destroy the soil. If that is true, you'd run in strong limitations what you can cultivate under that shade.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 06:42:47 pm
content: I watched a documentary some time ago that used wind turbine blades are a problem, nobody knows what to do with them. Some were used ( the curved part) as bus shelter roof, but that was it. So much to that " clean energy" thing.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 06:55:45 pm
content: Well, clearly the "agrivoltaics" thing can't work everywhere (or maybe even with most crops, at least without some yield trade-offs). And if you had plenty of suitable, non-arable land available you probably wouldn't consider it. But apparently there are benefits with some crops, particulary in more arid regions, because it reduces evaporation. Unlike solar-freakin-roadways it doesn't seem immediately ridiculous and I don't think you can just dismiss it out of hand. More like the kind of thing where you carefully need to evaluate the trade-offs and economics.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 07:03:27 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on July 05, 2023, 06:26:19 pmActually, most cultivars can be adapted to the prevailing conditions. For example, because of the lack of night above the Arctic Circle during the growing season, you need to grow the plant from a seed up there, for it to handle it well. If sufficient water and nutrients are available, the temperature is suitable for growth, and you get no pest problems, it is the amount of direct sunlight that determines the crop yield. If you are already limited by water, nutrients, pests, and/or temperature, then picking a shade-tolerant cultivar might make sense. Switching to organic farming and mixing the cultivars in the same field might be a better business decision, though.Now, of course you can build full or partial shade over your cultivars, and pick a balance between crop yields and solar panel area. You can even make the pylons so that you rotate the solar panels each year as you rotate the crops (which is quite important in the long run, unless you can afford to waste a lot of nutrients). Ten meter tall steel pylons aren't cheap to make, though. Can you even break even?Just sticking panels to roofs and silos and other tops of existing structures sounds much more sensible to me.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 07:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 05, 2023, 06:55:45 pmThis is true. Say, around the Mediterranean, for example.But Central and Northern Europe, I doubt it.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 07:14:33 pm
content: It just seems silly to me to even think about this sort of stuff until every rooftop and parking area is covered with panels.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 07:16:43 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on July 05, 2023, 06:42:47 pmI was discussing that above, I can think of all sorts of things they could be used for. The curved part would be nice for covered walkways, the flat parts would make good siding or roofs for sheds, fences, retaining walls, garden beds, cut it into strips and use it as decking, and any number of other things. Fiberglass is a robust material that is fairly easy to cut and join together, with the cost of lumber and other materials these days reclaimed material that can be had for free is appealing.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 07:45:21 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on July 05, 2023, 07:14:33 pmThat is a legitimate (and space-efficient) approach but AFAIK cost/kwh is about twice as high for small rooftop installations than for solar parks, at least in Germany. If your crop yield doesn't suffer too much, I guess there might still be a cost advantage even if you have to build higher pylons.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 08:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 05, 2023, 07:45:21 pmPutting them over walkways, porches, equipment and livestock shelters and other areas still makes a lot more sense than putting them over crops.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 09:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 05, 2023, 08:06:47 pmThis is already very, very common around here. But that is partly a political decision. Small installations were heavily subsidized. Investors and electricity companies like to build at scale and prefer to put up 1000 identical arrays somewhere. If you left it to them, solar parks might replace crops in some places (as things stand, I think you are very unlikely to get planning approval for that).

author: boB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 09:28:32 pm
content: PV on blades is not a new concepts. This was tried many years ago. 15+ years ??BAD idea. Unless maybe the blades are locked in place.boB

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 09:53:11 pm
content: It's a bad idea, but a great one for a new startup that will raise millions. What's not to like?OK, now this one is for recycling wind turbine blades. But where's the project to recycle the solar panels?Can we turn old solar panels into wind turbine blades maybe?

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 10:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 05, 2023, 09:00:50 pmSadly too true. Because if you turned all the farms in the US that produce corn ethanol for fuel with solar panels and/or wind you could provide enough electricity to power the entire US electrical system plus enough to replace all gasoline vehicles in the US with EVs and have some left over for transmission and storage inefficiency. Plus you would waste a lot less energy on fertilizing and farming that land.Right now that land is providing about 10% of our gasoline use. Solar power is about 30x more efficient once you count the efficient of photosynthesis, the fraction of photosynthesizes energy that makes is to sugar, and the efficiency of the ethanol production. Again not even counting the energy inputs of actually growing the corn.We shouldn't replace food production with energy production but we sure as hell should replace most bio fuels with literally anything else.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 10:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on July 05, 2023, 10:05:06 pmEthanol containing gasoline is garbage too. It goes bad in just a few months and it destroys metal fuel tanks, carburetors and other hardware in classic cars, vintage tractors, outboard motors, backup generators, garden equipment and other machinery. On top of that it results in a significant reduction in fuel economy in my car.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 10:57:25 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on July 05, 2023, 09:00:50 pmIf you want a large scale location where it makes sense to install elevated panels over something, suspend them over freeways/motorways with enough gaps to allow sufficient daylight in. Unlike crops, roads don't require a large amount of sunlight to function and it is a benefit to have them covered in most cases. Solar panels over crops is another idea in the same category as solar road surfaces, it's as if somebody is trying to brainstorm the least practical installations possible. We are SO far from running out of more sensible locations to put solar panels that it's not even worth discussing something as ridiculous as putting them over crops to compete for the sunlight needed by those.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 11:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 05, 2023, 09:53:11 pmI'm assuming this is a joke, but solar panels are mostly glass and aluminum, both of which are easily recyclable. I don't know about the silicon itself in polycrystaline type panels.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2023, 11:12:43 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 05, 2023, 11:00:33 pmA very sad joke, as the anti-solar crowd likes to complain that they are 'toxic waste' that will clog our landfills in the near future.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2023, 07:11:47 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on July 05, 2023, 12:38:29 pmWell, there is a natural bond between farmers and solar power, at least in Germany: Subsidies.

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 11:56:58 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on July 05, 2023, 12:38:29 pmStrangely this sort of thing has worked quite well in Australia with sheep farming, it turns out that the panels often get a bit of condensation on them over night, which helped water the soil, in addition the shading also stopped the soil drying out as much, and the sheep enjoy the extra shade.https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2022-05-30/solar-farm-grazing-sheep-agriculture-renewable-energy-review/101097364