Do any carriers allow NiCd cells to be shipped in equipment? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 10:11:34 pm
content: Does anyone know of couriers that allow NiCds inside equipment to be shipped?I'd like to sell a rather nice Tektronix 1502 TDR, the same type as discussed here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/tdr-for-measuring-cablesconnectors-what-is-it-worth-to-radio-hams/msg1014762/#msg1014762Now it contains 9 NiCd cells in a battery, which allows it to be usedliterallyin a field. The design is such that it will not function on mains unless the battery is working. (Some people claim capacitors and resistors can mimic a battery, but I've found that unreliable at best). I've replaced the original leaking cells with new NiCd cells.Now unless I specify "collection only" which indirectly limits the price, I will have to use a courier for shipping. But many couriers don't like batteries, for understandable reasons.For example, Royal Mail has four categories, and ParcelForce is similar...Batteries that are classified as dangerous goods and certain used batteries(including wet spillable lead acid/lead alkaline batteries (such as car batteries), used alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd), zinc-air batteries, solo lithium batteries, power banks and damaged batteries of any type)ProhibitedBatteries, specifically new alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd), zinc-air and zinc chloridePackaging guidelines: Must be new and sent unopened in their original retail packaging. Surround with cushioning material e.g. bubble wrap.AllowedBatteries, specifically new and used lithium batteries when not sent with or connected to an electronic device(including power banks)ProhibitedBatteries - new wet, non-spillable (e.g. sealed lead acid batteries, absorbed glass mat and gel cell batteries)Packaging guidelines: No more than one battery in any one parcel. Maximum weight 1.5kg. Item must be protected against short circuit (by insulation of exposed terminals) and securely packaged. Package must be marked. “NOT RESTRICTED” and “SPA67 / SP238”.Allowed in UK, prohibited internationallyThe battery does fit category 1, which is no good.Since I've rebuilt the battery, it cannot fit category 2Category 3 is ambiguous, since they aren't lithium and are connected to a device.Category 4 is probably not for NiCds, since they aren't wet.So, does anyone know of couriers that allow NiCds inside equipment to be shipped internally in the UK and/or internationally?I'm not interested in "ignore regs and ship it anyway" comments, thanks!Yes, I could discharge each cell individually so it wouldn't cause a fire. But I doubt that subtlety would cut much ice.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 10:20:20 pm
content: I don't see how any of the regulations applies to NiCd batteries inside a device. Especially since the device has been designed to use NiCd batteries. IMHO you are misunderstanding the regulations; the regulations are about seperate battery cells and not about batteries mounted inside a device. How else would they deliver any laptop, cordless drill, etc, etc??? IOW: just send it.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 10:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 10, 2020, 10:20:20 pmWhy doesn't category 1 apply?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 10:25:55 pm
content: See the edit I just made.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 10:28:59 pm
content: No restrictions at all pertaining to nicads within equipment. Li-Ion within equipment gets a specific mention (even then basically no restrictions), but not nicad.Ship it, no restriction.For those playing along at home:https://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/royal-mail-prohibited-and-restricted-items-may-01-2018--23745440.pdf

author: alextwin007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 10:41:01 pm
content: I don't know much about regulations, but I don know that with LiIon there are different restrictions for inside a device and outside of a device.I also received a Sony/Tek 323 in the mail and I don't think that there was any special shipping that was necessary, at least I didn't pay a lot of shipping that would have indicated special shipping was necessary.Kinda disappointed that you are in the UK, because I would be interested in the 1501 depending on the price.just noticed it's a 1502 not 1501

author: aix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 07:29:35 am
content: The regulations you quote apply to "Batteriesnot connected to or posted with the device it is intended to power" (emphasis mine).Source:https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/96/~/prohibited-and-restricted-items

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 08:31:17 am
content: Quote from: aix on February 11, 2020, 07:29:35 amExcellent. Thanks for spotting thatPart of my attitude is conditioned by experiences from 40 years ago. I had to take a NiCd powered optical attenuation test set by air as hand baggage, and the regulations were that the cells had to be discharged.Lithiums are worse than NiCds; I don't know what they would do if someone's phone ignited while aloft. I suspect dump it in a heatproof sealed container.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 09:55:29 am
content: That statement doesimplyyou can send batteries contained within equipment or shipped with associated equipment.But thats so vague.Cant they just clearly state cell types / max number of cells / max Wh that can be shipped within equipment

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 11:16:13 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 11, 2020, 08:31:17 amNope. A bucket of water.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 06:20:07 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 11, 2020, 11:16:13 amOr stick it between two slices of bread...Can't be worse than a lot of airline food!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 09:24:30 pm
content: I've been having another look at this, and have found a couple of relevant US-centric documents.https://www.prba.org/wp-content/uploads/Overview-of-Battery-Transport-Regulations.pdfcontains statements to the effect that:"Dry cell" batteries, such as alkaline, nickel cadmium, and carbon zinc are not listed as hazardous materials or dangerous goods in the U.S. and international regulations. However, don't let them overheat!There is no official definition of what constitutes a “dry cell” battery. However, the U.S. DOT has issued numerous interpretation letters over the years confirming that alkaline and nickel cadmium batteries as “dry cell batteries. (Seehttp://phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/Interpretations/2011/110313.pdf)That link is dead, but googling reveals a "legacy" documenthttps://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.dot.gov/files/legacy/interpretations/Interpretations/2011/110313.pdfwhich contains statements to the effect that:Common dry batteries (as in class "Batteries, dry, sealed, nos") include alkaline, zinc carbon, NiMH, NiCd. These batteries are distinct from "Batteries, wet, non-spillable" and "Batteries, dry, containing potassium hydroxide solis"So, it looks like it is OK to ship NiCds in a sane safe way.For the avoidance of doubt, lithium batteries are classed differently and must be treated very differently; they have caused loss of aircraft, unfortunately.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 11:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 11, 2020, 11:16:13 amNope to your “Nope”. They have special lithium battery fire containment bags:https://qz.com/809827/airlines-including-delta-dal-are-using-containment-bags-after-smartphone-fires/https://www.newtex.com/nes/fire-containment-bagsThese have become standard equipment on passenger aircraft, as I understand it.

author: jake111
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2020, 06:19:55 am
content: Restrictions? None if you're from China! I got an iPhone battery in a bubble pack a couple years ago. They just tossed the battery in the bubble pack, and it must have gotten crushed during shipping. It burned through the package on both sides of the battery. US postal service delivered the package with the burnt holes without even a note. Hilarious.