Are there any affordable US-based PCB manufacturers? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DigitalDeath
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 03:50:26 am
content: Wondering if there are any affordable US-based PCB manufacturers.

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 07:25:24 am
content: If you are talking proto-to-small-to-medium runs, an obvious suggestion as a starting point is OSH Park.But I too would like to see this topic expanded. Also where to get solder paste stencils, as the somewhat affiliated OSH Stencils seems, at least today, possible defunct.It's not just the tariffs that are an issue. There's Customs' de minimis provision, which allowed orders under $800 to slide through customs unimpeded. That made the 1-week (sometimes less) turnaround on PCBs quite favorable for rapid iteration. If de minimis is cancelled, not only will there be duty to pay, but worse, the shipment will get held up in customs, and require engaging an agent to get it cleared (with their own fee), with likely delays of days or weeks, especially with the sudden traffic jam of packages that would now require duty.

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 11:38:04 am
content: In having face to face meetings with assorted PCB shops overseas, many are setting up factories outside of China to continue business as usual. Many have locations now in Thailand and Vietnam so you should be able to source your PCB and PCBAs at similar costs as before.

author: DigitalDeath
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 01:58:57 pm
content: I had forgotten about Vietnam. Thanks for reminding me.I found a list of manufacturers in Vietnam here:https://www.pcbdirectory.com/manufacturers?country=Vietnam

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 02:12:06 pm
content: QuoteNot necessarily so if your taxman lets the manufacturer collect the tax at the point of sale,jlcpcb are certainly geared up for this as they do it for uk orders.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 09:47:01 pm
content: Quote from: gwideman on February 05, 2025, 07:25:24 amHere when I receive PCBs via DHL they begin customs clearance basically as soon as they pick up the package from the sender, so usually they send me a bill with taxes & fees before shipment actually arrives to the port of entry into Canada. If you pay these before DHL begins final "last mile" delivery, you can sign a release via their website and they will drop off your shipment at your door without any delays on the very first attempt. Or if you prefer to receive your shipment "from hand to hand", still make sure you pay the invoice with taxes & fees before delivery agent arrives to you - this way agent can verify that you've paid everything, and will just give you your parcel.

author: bdeianov
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 12:22:38 am
content: Quote from: gwideman on February 05, 2025, 07:25:24 amEdit: They are back.I emailed them and they replied that their hosting provider had a catastrophic failure they are working frantically to fix. Hopefully they'll be back online soon.

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 01:24:19 am
content: Quote from: asmi on February 05, 2025, 09:47:01 pmThanks for that info, good to know. I wonder if it's similar for DHL into the US?

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 01:24:56 am
content: Quote from: bdeianov on February 06, 2025, 12:22:38 amYes, I saw this today. That's good news.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 03:55:27 am
content: Quote from: asmi on February 05, 2025, 09:47:01 pmIf you open a FedEx account, you don't need to do anything at all. They simply charge your card. Moreover, unlike DHL, FedEx don't charge any fees for custom clearance, they only collect GST (or whatever tax you pay in your province).

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 06:37:57 pm
content: Here's my experience with UPS. They bill you for the tariff and tack on a $15 processing fee. I got nicked %25 for a PCBA order from JLCPCB. I expect the other shippers will be similar. Though, I ordered before the initial order to cancel the de minimis exemption so not sure how the processing fees will play outThat happened just before Trump temporarily rescinded the de minimis exemption cancellation so I kind of got screwed.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 07:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on February 07, 2025, 03:55:27 amSure Fedex does charge. This would be silly if they would not, as this involves work. And they say it on their web site.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 09:35:11 pm
content: A service fee for paying tax? Seems wrong to me but they will always try to get more from you.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 02:06:32 pm
content: We had a similar problem a couple of years ago in the UK - sellers had to charge VAT. But the companies with bigger markets like ebay and aliexpress took it on and although postal charges have gone up (ebay especially) they're easy to handle. I recently had PCBs from PCBWay - $20 for the PCBs, $23 for DHL delivery, I think a few $ for something else, no more costs on delivery.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 11:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 08, 2025, 07:03:54 pmThey don't charge if you have an account with a credit card on file. Call them and ask if you don't believe me.

author: JMG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 03:22:29 am
content: We recently imported 50x connectors from a supplier in China, shipped via UPS. Parts cost was ~$197, shipping was ~$28. The import tariff though was $101, and UPS charged $14. I paid via the UPS website after the package had its first delivery attempt - I wasn't even aware it had shipped. This added a day of delay, no big deal on this particular order. However - and watch out for this yourselves - after having paid via the UPS website, there was no receipt, no email, nothing to show I'd paid except for a single line of text saying "A payment was made on this shipment." I'm also not sure why the tariff was ~$101 - that is 51%.

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 11:36:48 am
content: These tarrifs will 'make America rich again'. At least the government will be.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 04:36:23 am
content: Quote from: JMG on February 12, 2025, 03:22:29 amYeah, UPS gives you zero detail. I am suspicious of their math but no way to prove it. They need to at least quote the rate and amount they are applying the tariff on.

author: JMG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 03:48:32 pm
content: Exactly. Makes for interesting accounting too.I currently have a PCBWay shipment on its way via DHL which has so far left mainland China, arrived and departed from Hong Kong, but I have zero customs information. I do see an added week of delivery time now with no explanation of why. Those 3-4 day shipments are going to be a thing of the past. Lets see how this one turns out.

author: globoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 04:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: JMG on February 13, 2025, 03:48:32 pmI do too. It was supposed to be delivered yesterday on schedule but now on hold in a nearby USA city. It's possible the hold is weather related as we had some snow two days ago and I've noticed the DHL drivers are slower when it's snowy.I'm not worried...yet. But I agree with you that it seems the cheap and easy access we had is probably going away.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 05:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: JMG on February 13, 2025, 03:48:32 pmThe delay might be because they need to figure out how to deal with the tariff. My UPS package from JLCPCB did not have any additional delay - I paid the tariff online and it sailed right through customs just like before. I'm kind of surprised that DHL doesn't have tariff payment set up - prior to this, packages above $800 were subject to the tariff.Putting on my editorial hat - the de minimis exemption was supposedly dropped because of law enforcement wanting to prevent fentanyl precursor materials from getting in. I sure don't see how that is going to happen if the packages don't get inspected. Pretty sure mine didn't. And, inspecting every package is likely not going to happen without a huge expansion in staffing. Odds of that actually happening - zero. What a bunch of idiots...

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:55:58 pm
content: As another data point, DHL just dropped off a board that I had ordered from JLC on Feb 7, so delivered in less than a week. I was fully expecting the driver to ask me to swipe a card for duty payments, but he just needed a signature. It may be that they will send me an invoice later, but nothing on delivery. This was for 5x bare boards, total value about US$ 60.When placing the order, JLC cautioned that packages with value > $250 were being delayed. I was originally going to get them to place some of the passives on the board, but because that put the value over $250, I decided to do them myself.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on February 13, 2025, 08:55:58 pmI believe that is because the de minimis exemption removal has been put on hold until USPS puts together a plan to handle collecting tarrifs on packages. I expect it will be back in very short order. The $250 thing seems odd to me. The exemption is/was for <$800.This chaos and uncertainty is just plain bad for business. It sure feels like we are turning into a 3rd world country.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:41:49 pm
content: Yeah says here it should be either $800 or nothing:https://www.ghy.com/trade-compliance/us-delays-implementation-of-de-minimis-ban-on-chinese-e-commerce/QuoteMaybe there was an unwritten rule to ignore lower value shipments during the confusion.

author: JMG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:52:28 pm
content: Sure wished they'd have ignored mine!No update on my DHL shipment. I'm about to order ~$350 worth of USB drivers from Via Labs. I'll post the results of that shipment as they unfold.

author: JMG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 12:20:00 am
content: DHL shipment on hold. No idea why. Still no customs info.

author: globoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 02:14:10 am
content: I did get my package today so it must have been weather related. Package value was far less than $800. I also got one earlier from LCSC without problem.I am expecting that in the future these kinds of orders will get more expensive and perhaps slower. I'm also willing to bet that domestic suppliers sure as hell won't be lowering their prices. Probably manufacturers will pop-up in other countries. For a client project the Chinese CM is already setting up facilities we will use in the Philippines.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 04:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: globoy on February 14, 2025, 02:14:10 amDid you get nicked for the tariff?

author: globoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 02:37:19 am
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on February 14, 2025, 04:40:44 pmNo. I read that the administration quietly backed off on eliminating the De Minimis exemption, at least for now.Perhaps ironically, I am paying tariff's on quite a few parts ordered from Mouser here in the USA as they started passing those costs along after the latest increases.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 09:23:49 am
content: Quote from: DigitalDeath on February 05, 2025, 03:50:26 amAddressing the original question - maybe you could try outDirtyPCBsthey seem to be located in Iowa.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 01:22:15 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on February 15, 2025, 09:23:49 amDirtyPCBs is a frontend to services performed 100% in China.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 01:57:14 pm
content: Quote from: jduncan on February 15, 2025, 01:22:15 pmYet they are US-based, and ordering from them you won't have to deal with any shipping issues from China yourself.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 03:23:14 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on February 15, 2025, 09:23:49 amThey don't do anything in the US. Ian moved to the Netherlands about 15 years ago and then moved to China about 8 years ago. Manufacturing of Dangerous Prototypes, Dirty PCBs and related ventures has always been in China.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 03:55:47 pm
content: Quote from: oPossum on February 15, 2025, 03:23:14 pmWhen you order there you get an invoice from Where Lab, LLC with a post address in Iowa/USA.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 07:34:19 pm
content: You think that they ship everything from China to the USA then re-ship? That wouldn't make much sense.I've never used their PCB service but I used the laser cutting once, and it shipped by DHL from Hong Kong.I don't see how this would avoid any tariffs/service charges.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 09:46:19 pm
content: @jduncan: Of course I can't know how DirtyPCB run their business and how or from where they ship. All I noticed is that they do have a US based company address. Usually, at least for me, a business transaction works like that: I visit a store/onlineshop in my country, pick the items I want and if price and delivery fees are alright I place an order. So then a domestic transaction between a business in my county and me the consumer takes place. At that point it is not my problem who their supplier is or how they organize their supply chain. If they have a supplier in China or anywhere else in the world they are dealing with the supplier, not me. I mean if you buy lets say an Iphone, or a charger for one, those items or parts of them are also likely imported from China. Of course the tariffs aren't gonna disappear because of that - but Apple agrees to deliver you a phone/charger for a certain price. How they make that happen is on them.

author: jduncan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 10:24:17 pm
content: Ok, well if you read a bit of their website they're very clear that they operate and ship out of China.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 06:42:29 am
content: Quote from: jduncan on February 15, 2025, 10:24:17 pmThere is definitely some confusion going on. If they ship to a distribution point in the USA and then send individual orders on, that might save the customer from directly paying the tariff, but the tariff will definitely be factored into their prices. They'll pass it along.But, if the package is shipped directly from China to the end customer, the tariff will get collected from the customer.There ain't no free lunch here.

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 09:45:05 pm
content: For what it's worth, the Altium Academy channel on YouTube posted a couple of days ago a video "The Future of PCB Manufacturing: Tariffs, Supply Chains & More" which is quite interesting.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 10:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: gwideman on March 06, 2025, 09:45:05 pm