Hard Drive outside storage ideas and suggestions  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 01:01:50 am
content: HiI am looking for ideas on how to store my backup drives outside. I figure the safest area from a house or wild fire is in a corner of my lot where there are no trees, bushes, or buildings using metal trash cans. I have used metal trash cans for over 20 years now for storage (no drives) without any major problems (only when I forget to put the lid on), so I am comfortable with this method. I protect the cans from the sun by cement boards that are used for tiles. I also paint and seal the seams. There is no seal where the lid fits on the can. The lid fits over the can so they are water tight.Now the bare internal drives are inside plastic boxes (not air tight) inside the cans. I would like to step up the protection another level. Someone suggested to me to wrap the drives in aluminum foil, put in zip lock bags and place in ammo cans and put these into the trash cans.What do you think about this? If I do this it would be on a low humidity day this October and I live in So. California (dry climate now). I am concerned about wrapping in aluminum foil and using zip lock bags.Any other ideas on how to protect drives from rain and fire? (no firesafe)thanksEdit: The number of drives is 15, not a trash can full of drives.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 01:17:25 am
content: I can't see a point to the aluminium foil unless it's for static. Personally I'd use anti-static zip-loc bags with a bit of silica gel in them. If you are recycling the silica gel then make sure it's properly dried.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 01:58:08 am
content: Here in Oz a company called Atlas Plastics (in Melbourne) makes large heavy-duty screw-top plastic drums with good seals. They are watertight and insect proof. I use them for storing stuff like climbing gear, where insect nibbles could be fatal. Also bulk food like flour, with CO2 gas fill.See pic. Waste paper bin for scale.Personally, storing critical backups outside in the yard doesn't sound like a great idea. Wouldn't thieves (or some joker taking pot-shots) be more of a risk than fire?At least with the plastic drums you could dig them into the ground, so only a few inches of the side and the lid projected above ground. Making fire protection much easier. Assuming your yard doesn't flood.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 02:11:02 am
content: Personally i think the best option is to buy a large time capsule box and build a PC inside.You can mount some IP67 connectors to get power and network into it.Then bury it in your backyard.You could also do ac or n wifi with a directional antenna inside the box, pointed at your house.Ya could actually make it kinda cool with multiple redundancy and even a usb camera and lighting system inside the box so you can check out inside every now and then to look for water leaks etc..Put a large desiccant bag in for good measure.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 02:19:30 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on September 05, 2015, 01:58:08 amthanks I will look into the plastic drums. I live in the city and theft and guns are a low risk, and I have found out that trash cans are low on the risk list. If I get hit, it will be my electronics inside my house that will go first.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:07:39 am
content: A decent quality plastic paint container would be compact and fairly inexpensive. Dig a hole in a garden bed, surround it with gravel and put premade concrete slab on top with a few bricks either side to take the weight off.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:19:36 am
content: PVC water pipes with an end cap cemented on one end and a screw top on the other with a rubber seal. These are designed to be watertight. You can select 100mm or 150mm diameter pipe according to the drives you are storing. Put a bag of dessicant in the bottom. I have used these for geocaches that have been out in the field for over 10 years now.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:34:21 am
content: Quote from: DrGeoff on September 05, 2015, 03:19:36 amEspecially the desiccant! PVC is actually slightly water-porous, while high density polyethylene is not.I heard that back when the Oz government was on a gun-banning binge, suddenly large diameter stainless steel pipe and endcaps became in short supply. I guess stainless steel is even better for in-ground security.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 04:47:47 am
content: First wrap the drive in an antistatic bag then put in the plastic clamshell that it comes in, then put the whole lot along with the dessicant sachet in a larger thick PVC bag that you heat seal. This then is going to be well protected against moisture and corrosion, and you then put the lot in a close fitting corrugated cardboard box, which then is storable. A cheaper variant over the military method, which uses a metallised foil fabric inner bag with the PVC outer. Will survive over 40 years in covered storage with minimal care in just keeping the outer surface dry and keeping rodents and other vermin away. You might want to drop a small bag of moth repellent ( not sure in Kalifornia if you can actually use proper Naphthalene blocks, though you could also use what I use, toilet pucks, as an alternative) and some rodent pellets in the outer final container as well.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 05:49:33 am
content: Quote from: Shock on September 05, 2015, 03:07:39 amSo far this is my favorite. A few months ago I got one of these to put paint in. The lid was hard to get on and off and I dropped it and no leaks. I will add some concrete to make it the same weight as full of paint and just leave it laying around. I have a lot of building material so this will fit in.The only thefts I have had in the last 20 years are from workers that I hired to do some work. I do not think they will try and steal a bucket full of paint (even though 5 gallons of paint is worth $100 to $400 for a 5 gallon bucket). It will be heavy and hard to hide for them and not worth much in the underworld. Not sure if I will bury it (I am too lazy)

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 07:41:51 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 05, 2015, 05:49:33 amJust weight it for half-full of paint, splash old paint on the outside, and write some gay color name on the lid like chartreuse, taupe, saffron, burnt umber or Periwinkle (I googled for 'gay color names', and I insist I have no idea what they are. Well... perhaps.. no, no, definitely no idea.) No one would take it then.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 08:07:44 am
content: I'd still secure it underground, fireproof and waterproof if positioned correctly. Easily concealable and next to impossible to break into if you plan accordingly.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 12:22:19 pm
content: Spinning-platter HDDs are not rated for low temperatures. You may have problems trying to get the data out of them eventually. SSDs are better for low temperature storage (in fact the colder they are, the longer the retention) but worse for high temperatures.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 12:25:23 pm
content: How much data is on this? 6TB per 15 drives, 1TB per drive? Have you thought about solid state stuff (SSDs, SD cards an such)? You could severely reduce size (at an obscene price though), which would make it much easier to conceal.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 01:00:07 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on September 05, 2015, 12:22:19 pmWon't have high temperatures underground ... so SSDs buried underground in some hermetic enclosure, connect them through USB to a small DD-WRT router hidden in an electrical outlet or something, backup over wifi (if it needs to be faster a more powerful solution with ethernet or homeplug is also an option).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 01:40:22 pm
content: This has been more or less discussed before. I wouldn't store hard drives and expect them to be readable after many years. Better use a couple of NAS units (burried for example) which get synced/checked daily so you have redundant backups which are also monitored for health. You'll see this system gets updated naturally due to space constraints so you won't find yourself with hard drives which cannot be read because the interface and/or filesystem got obsolete.

author: Connoiseur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:08:37 pm
content: If you are more concerned about the data than the drives themselves, then cloud storage seems way better than putting away the drives in trash can or whatever container.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:32:19 pm
content: Use one of these, or get a fireproof safe.Your underground solution must also survive water, since fires are often extinguished with water.Floodings might makes things more complicated.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 03:54:56 pm
content: Get an old Panasonic toughbook. The ex military ones can be had quite cheap, run linux on it as you wont need all the features and keep it it as a nas drive in your house, they will survive even hot fires like automotive fires as the one in the link did some of the alloy casing melted yet it still boots.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 04:46:14 pm
content: It seems like you need some time planning your real needs. Many of the suggestions would keep the drives alive for years, maybe even decades, but why? After all that time you might have difficulty finding equipment to operate them. And it doesn't do any good for the data generated in the interim. Are you planning to create one of these data crypts every six months? Rotate drives through the process? If so, the protection need not be nearly so robust. If you are merely planning to create a growing pile of archived hard drives the costs will get high. Might be time to investigate one of the professional archiving companies. Iron Mountain is one of the biggies here in the US, but I think they have gone international.If you live in an area where wildfire is a real concern (I do), dropping a drive off with a friend or relative who lives in a non-fire zone or at least a different fire zone is a simple alternative. Or just stick your backup drive in your go bag. The go bag is a necessity if you live in a wildfire hazard zone.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 06:39:00 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on September 05, 2015, 04:46:14 pmOr simply rent a bank deposit box and put a fresh copy of your backups there once in a hile. It will be vastly safer than any of the "solutions" described here.Unless you are planning to build an underground vault, then any of the ideas posted have serious issues - theft, getting buried/destroyed in an accident, flooding could be a real concern depending on where you live, etc. And the environmental protection required for the disks to survive "out there" will be likely more complicated and expensive than the rental of a small box.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 06:56:09 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on September 05, 2015, 02:46:12 pmBucket wetter?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 07:36:47 pm
content: UPDATEQuote--> great idea I will use two buckets for two sets of backups. One will be placed in a metal can that I could access easily in case I have to run and one in a pile of building supplies.Quote--> I do not want to bury them. There is nothing illegal with them so thieves, fire, and earthquakes are my danger.Quote--> good points. I live near the coast in So Calif so if it got to 40 F that would be a record low. I have stored drives outside for years in the backyard but the fire department made me clean up so I lost several hiding places so I have to find new places.I have about 50 metal trash cans and they did not bug me about any of them. They were the only things to survive the inspection. I ended up using several for fire wood because I had to move and get rid of firewood. (it gets cold enough to use a fireplace).I have about 30 TB for each backup so SSDs are way out of my price range. I am currently buying 5 tb external WD drives from B&H in the US. I also have some 5 tb int Toshiba drives.The range of drive is from 1/2 TB portables to 5 TB int and ext drives. All sizes and makes and types.Quote--> high temps is a major concern. I have to keep them in the shade and protect from the rain. One set will be in a plastic bucket inside a metal trash can covered with camo painted cement board. One set will be in a bucket in the driveway under a stack pile of wood. No need to connect them, they are backups.Quote---> every 4-5 years I buy a set of drives (currently 30TB) over the span of about 6 months and copy a backup set (the inside set) onto a new set of drives and use these to replace a backup set. Then take those drives and low level format them and reload them and use them again as a backup. I am up to 5 sets now. One set is stored at a friend's house. So every 4-5 years I refresh all the drivesQuote---> noted but they will not be buried. Now I decided that for the two sets that will be in plastic buckets will be in metal trash cans. One will be at the corner of the driveway where I could stop and grab them in an evacuation and the other next to a junk pile. One set will be in a plastic box in the garage, one set on portables inside (the set I use) and one set at a friend's house.No one has mention grease yet. Once I bought some Russian ammo and it was sealed with wax paper and covered in grease.But I would not want to open grease covered drives, even if only once every 5 years.Quote--> Sorry I do not want to use the cloud and with 30tb it would be difficult anywayQuote--> I do not plan to bury them. Having many sets of backups is my way of protecting against fire and earthquakes. My main dangers are: theft, fire, heat, rain, earthquakes. The two buckets will protect from all. The set in the garage and house and friend's house will be subject to all dangers, hopefully not all at the same time.Quote--> bummer - I used to have 5 and got rid of the last one last monthQuote-->>> I refresh the drives every 4-5 years. Drives are low level formatted and rotated. No failures so far. So protection does not need to be very robust. Costs of getting the data runs into the $10,000's (is the " ' " in the right place ?) so the costs of multiple sets of backups is not much in comparison.Iron Mountain sounds expensive, I think my 5 sets will cover me (in 5 years it will be 6 sets). My friend lives 15 miles from me so the different fire zone is covered. The go bag will be in a trash can at the end of the driveway. This is about 25 feet from the house so I could grab some things during the start of a fire. This gives me the idea to put more things in the grab bucket besides the drives. I already have a trash can in the driveway with a duffel bag inside it as a grab bag.For the "driveway can", it will be placed inside a fence next to the driveway. It will be a bucket inside a metal can. Between the metal and plastic, I will place strips of drywall and bricks. On the outside on the sides and top will be sheets of cement boards painted dark green. This will be hidden by bushes.Quote--> currently about 30 tb and gets refreshed every 4-5 yearsthanks for all the suggestions but the thing about the Panasonics has made me sad

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 10:19:00 pm
content: Are your backup disks equipped with data redundancy. Using either raid or parity?I'm not sure, but do nearby lightning strikes effect magnetic media?

author: C
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2015, 11:04:12 pm
content: If your data is important you should read thisData_corruptionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_corruptionC

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 01:35:00 am
content: QuoteNo - the backups are not connected to a computerQuoteMy guess is yes. In 20 years there has been one lighting strike within a mile. I am going to look for a metal can that will fit in the plastic bucket that will fit inside a metal trash can

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 01:59:38 am
content: A military surplus ammo can would seem ideal. It is made for harsh outdoor storage while maintaining good weather seal. Rectangular shape for efficient storage of data drives (rotating or SSD). One can would probably hold all your drives and several other things that need preserving as well. And certainly be sure to throw a freshly-baked dessicant sachet in there whenever you open it up for rotation.I would keep the raw drives in the plastic containers made for shelf-storage

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 02:03:08 am
content: Quote from: C on September 05, 2015, 11:04:12 pmThis is funny because yesterday I found some bad files by accident. They copied ok. Now I have started using Teracopy with CRC checking. In the next 5 years I will go through the files and create a "master" copy. This is my main failure - not having a known good "master" set.Another funny thing is I am now copying files out of a suspected folder and Terracopy is running at 1 mb/s and with the same drives but different folders the speed was 20 mb/s. It reported that it will take 5 days just to copy (maybe another 5 days to test). The files on the source seem ok - strange (I deleted all the bad files I could find). I decided to just let it run and see what happens when I copy off the destination drive to another drive ( 4 tb ext to 2 tb portable to 5 tb internal )

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 02:10:12 am
content: You didn't mention the actual size of the data you are storing, but flash "thumb" drives are increasing in size and dropping in price weekly.It will not be long (if not already) that it will be cheaper to store the data on flash drives. And FAR FAR more reliable than rotating magnetic drives.I have a USB3 thumb drive that is smaller than my thumb and holds 128GB. I bought it for practically pocket change at Costco.I don't believe that flash ROM is an "archival" (dozens/scores of years) medium, but it is a heckuva lot more reliable than rotating drives.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 02:31:35 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 06, 2015, 02:10:12 amEach set is about 30 tb and I have 5 sets. Even one set of thumb drives is beyond my means. Just a ruff calculation works out to $7,000 for one set. Using hard drives works out to be about $800 per set. Still about a 10 to 1 price ratio. I buy one set every five years. If I win the lotto, I will use thumb drives (sure would take up a lot less room)

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 06:23:20 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 06, 2015, 02:31:35 amhave you considered LTO tapes ? you mentioned $800 per set times 5 sets is $4000... you can easlly buy a LTO drive and a bunch of tapes for that price. tapes are much cheaper than hard drives and more reliable - they are designed for long term data retention.furthermore a small fireproof safe would be my option to store the tapes if the data is so important.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 06:25:28 am
content: Funny coincidence. I'm doing some tidying(*) today, and this emerged from the junkpile.Bucket-o-disks. These ones are just old spares. Nothing of importance on them.(* By which I mean, picking things I don't need, stripping them for interest & parts, and junking most of the volume. Starting with two large LCD TVs.)

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 07:37:27 am
content: Rent a bank safety box.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 10:14:23 am
content: Fireproof means it will not get over 100C inside when exposed to fire for 4 hours or so. Not that it is waterproof or anything else. Most fireproof safes are designed for paper document storage, not magnetic media. For that you need an inner waterproof and magnetically shielded box, which also has to withstand the conducted heat from the outer fireproof safe.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 11:27:20 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 06, 2015, 02:10:12 amThose drives are cheap precisely because they'renotvery reliable. They're using ultra-high-density 3/4-bit-per-cell flash which has horrible endurance and retention. The only advantage they have over magnetic platters is (mechanical) shock resistance.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 01:23:36 pm
content: Yes, just had a flash drive ( 8G) die, it got grumpy and would disconnect. Inside the actual memory is a Dynet D27UCG8T2MYA 64Gbit chip, with a SM microcontroller with internal clock doing the USB interface. It is only around a year old, but has had quite a lot of erase cycles. I use it as a sneakernet drive.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 01:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on September 06, 2015, 11:27:20 amExactly. I've probably lost 3x more flash media than spinners.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 01:37:52 pm
content: Not helped by the use of MLC flash. Makes it cheaper, but the read and write side has a harder time ensuring the analogue data is going to stay in a range where the error correction can get something usable out of it. SLC at least will flicker around the transition point as it dies, MLC will just give false data.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 02:58:32 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 06, 2015, 01:23:36 pmDynet is what Hynix makes... but doesn't want to sell as Hynix.Even the Hynix chip is rated for only 1K program/erase cycles.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 03:01:10 pm
content: That would explain the $5 price........ I did not expect them to last long in any case, so no loss.

author: Melt-O-Tronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 03:59:50 pm
content: Storing hard drives outside, the minimum or maximum temperatures aren't what would concern me the most -- it's theconstanttemperature swings.A 20 degree (F) change twice per day is average here in Texas (and most of the U.S.), year round. Add radiant heat to the equation and the occasional cold front and they could experience >70 degree changes in a few hours. Now do that twice daily for X years . . .None of the magnetic media that I've left in uncontrolled storage for long periods have fared well. Humidity was not the problem and I suspect the daily temperature swings were, although I can't prove it.From experience, I would not store hard drives without climate control if I needed to read the data in the future.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 07:21:10 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on September 06, 2015, 07:37:27 amGreat idea - I think I have a bank account that gives me a free box. I can use 5 tb drives, this might work

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 09:30:38 pm
content: Another option is put your backup hard disk(s) in a padlocked container, and let a trusted friend keep it in their house.Offer to keep your friend's backup drives in your house.Chances that both your house will burn down at the same time is very small.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 10:59:37 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on September 06, 2015, 09:30:38 pmI am doing this and call it Set 1. I am looking for places for Sets 2 to 5

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2015, 11:53:38 pm
content: As others have suggested, could you just store them off-site with friends or family? Grab yourself a Pelican case with pick-and-pluck foam.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 12:40:04 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 06, 2015, 10:59:37 pmIf you have the budget (and data value) to justify 5 sets of hard drives, you should REALLY be using something more robust and conventional like LTO "Ultrium" tape.NO hard drive is archival-grade, and they can barely be considered short-term backup-grade.I have a growing stack of hard drives that have simply failed sitting on the shelf as "offline storage". And that is living-space climate controlled storage.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 12:57:56 am
content: I don't know Richard. I have several offline hard drive backups several years old and still doing good.A decade+ ago, I have bad experience with tapes (DDS, DLT)... backups proceed as normal, verification passes, and when rubber meets the road and it's time to restore in an emergency, it's unreliable/corrupted or whatever... of course, the file(s) you don't need read good, but not the important file the boss needs. Maybe things are different nowadays.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 03:04:25 am
content: minifridge with aluminum duct tape wrapped around it.. probobly good for 50 years

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 03:21:28 am
content: Essentially 100% of the most valuable data on this planet is trusted to digital mag tape. By both government and commercial users. For both transient backup as well as long-term archive.To be sure no archival medium is simply recorded and left untouched for decades. If it is valuable, it is re-written to new media every few years.

author: kc8apf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 03:29:25 am
content: As a few have already mentioned, hard drives are _not_ designed for off-line storage. The drive manufacturers are quite clear about this when asked. The lubricants and platters are designed assuming a few hours of power-on per day. A brand new drive that is written once and put in storage for 2-3 years will probably work but there is no guarantee. Any other scenario will be worse.Tapes aren't really great for this either. They are designed for off-line storage but not really archival. Read failures are fairly common with tapes. Head misalignment on the writing drive can be disasterous.Some forms of optical (specifically not the dye-changing writable types) and phase change are the best archival medias. Sony has aproduct line, aimed at the broadcast video market but it can store any kind of data. It's derived from Blu-ray but in a cartridge form. 1.5TB per cartridge. Rewritable. 50yr rated media. The downside is price. The cartridges aren't bad at $150 for 1.5TB but the cheapest drive is $6500.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 05:16:31 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 06, 2015, 07:21:10 pmUmm... You might want to discuss that idea with some people familiar with the current developing banking crisis, and past history of banks shutting and blocking access to safe deposit boxes in times of financial crisis. Or you could spend some time reading Zerohedge.com regularly. My guess would be that a bank safe deposit box might be a worse risk than wildfire now and for the next year or two.Also the US government has given itself the power to inspect and confiscate safe deposit boxes, so that's another risk.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 06:28:22 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on September 07, 2015, 05:16:31 amnow that I think about this - I agree - so

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 06:53:48 am
content: Also, you could use encryption on your backup drives. But that would make you a terrorist in the eyes of the govenment.Or is it not that bad over there yet? The media here likes to tell it is.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 10:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on September 07, 2015, 05:16:31 amSorry, but if you are worried about a bank crisis making your backup unavailable, you are really worrying about the wrong things. If you are that paranoid, you can easily have two (or multiple) boxes in different banks. They are extremely unlikely to go out of business at the same time.And if you are worried about government seizing your boxes in the bank - how is that different from a bunch of guys in a black van showing up at your door with a search warrant, turning your house upside down and taking a backhoe to dig in your garden?Seriously, guys ...