what possessed microchip to lock copying of text from datasheets - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 07:55:56 pm
content: This is about the stupidest thing I have come across. While the datasheet for the first versions of the ATmega 0-series allowed copying text from the PDF this made life much easier when trying to write code and my own notes. But I see that the SAMC datasheet has had the ability to copy/paste text locked. BASTARDS!, I mean why? why the hell do that? For more complex peripherals like the CAN i need to write my own notes as the datasheet that is normally difficult to digest is just ridiculous when it gets to CAN as it talks about registers I have not yet been introduced to and their bits as though i already know what they mean so working it out once and making written notes will be essential. But the inability to copy text is annoying and just stupid! I see that Mr. D. Head is alive and well at Microchip.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 07:58:07 pm
content: Here's an open source program you can use to unlock them:http://qpdf.sourceforge.net/The option you want is qpdf --decrypt

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 07:59:25 pm
content: Thank you, I'll try it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 08:12:50 pm
content: which one do i download, is this command line only?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 08:24:17 pm
content: right, done thank you, so maybe microchip can tell us why they bothered!

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 08:40:35 pm
content: Most browsers these days can render .pdfs, and I don't think they pay any attention to those copy locks. Haven't you tried opening it with Chrome or Firefox?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 08:42:03 pm
content: There was a publishing mistake, it was already reported and fixed. The currently published version allows copying.The thing was actually fixed within 2 days of me reporting that. And that was quite some time ago.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 08:58:19 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 04, 2020, 08:40:35 pmYes I tried, but locked, word also refused to open.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:00:31 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 04, 2020, 08:42:03 pmHow long ago was that? I downloaded this copy not too long ago and I think I have found an error in the CAN register description where a copy paste of the FIFO-0 register has been copied over to the FIFO-1 page without changing 0 to 1 or it's round the other way. This is also why i like to write my own notes.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:02:56 pm
content: Yes I have the new version, I can copy text.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:04:08 pm
content: There is also even a metric crap ton of online PDF unlockers, no need to install any apps for that. The PDF "locking thing" is only for pissing the users, I don't see a reason for bothering with that either.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:05:11 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 04, 2020, 09:00:31 pmI see emails about that going around March 13, so it was quite a while ago.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:05:34 pm
content: 38.8.32 bit 25 refers to RXF1C.F0OM, I am pretty sure it should be RXF1C.F1OMlooking at 38.8.27/28 it looks like a copy paste error.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:10:54 pm
content: Every Microchip datasheet in recent memory has been secured. As a sanity check, I just downloaded one from a new products tree. You can see what is allowed and not allowed.I have had some of the problems @Simon is dealing with. I was almost always able to get the job done using Adobe X v10.1.16 (which is old) and the Edit->Take a snapshot function and rarely had to go further.edited to fix attachment

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:12:37 pm
content: There is no 38.8.32 in the current datasheet (DS60001479E). CAN section is 34. There is bit 31 that is F0OM/F1OM, but form what I see they are labeled correctly.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on July 04, 2020, 09:10:54 pmThey are secured from editing. For a short period C21 datasheet had copying disabled. This was rectified as soon as it was reported.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:20:18 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 04, 2020, 09:12:37 pmsorry yes 34.34.8.32 Rx FIFO 1 StatusBit 25 – RF1L Rx FIFO 1 Message LostThis bit is a copy of interrupt flag IR.RF1L. When IR.RF1L is reset, this bit is also reset.Overwriting the oldest message when RXF1C.F0OM = ‘1’ will not set this flag.I assume, and I have to assume given the fact that in text all registers are acronyms that are not included on section titles RXF1C is:34.8.31 Rx FIFO 1 Configurationwhere there is no F0OM bit but there is a F1OMIf you look at the equivalent registers for the FIFO 0 registers you will see that RXF0C.F0OM does exist

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 09:21:53 pm
content: Ok, I was looking at the actual bits. I'll report this on Monday.

author: Mr Evil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 10:47:28 pm
content: I've come across quite a few datasheets and other documents where there is absolutely no reason to prevent copying, and yet the authors have tried. I just flicked through some of the Microchip datasheets I have lying around, and some of them are "protected", while most are not. Two that try to deny copying are for thePIC16F1824and theMIC2860-2D.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 11:32:48 pm
content: Just print it to file (a new pdf), and Bob's your uncle.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 11:44:47 pm
content: Yea, true

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 11:45:42 pm
content: A lot of companies lock their PDF documents. Other than stupidity, I have no idea why.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 12:50:42 am
content: I've seen stupider.A multinational computer company whereinternaldocuments would be uploaded to SharePoint ("Where documents go to die™") and set to expire after a certain date. If not replaced with newer versions, their own employees who needed them were SOL.Control freak tendencies + technological enablement = frustrated users

author: Striker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 02:52:55 pm
content: I'm happy to see there's a workaround for this. This right up there with PDFs that are formatted so that copying+pasting yields completely garbage text (almost randomly out of order letters/symbols) for infuriating issues when picking and justifying components.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 04:30:27 pm
content: Annoying, yes, but at least you don't need to sign an NDA to get MCHP datasheets like you do with some vendors...

author: Striker
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 04:49:42 pm
content: It just screams "We don't want you to bother using our product". I get it for aerospace related devices but I also see it all too often for generic components where the company seemingly wants to force you to talk to them so they can upsell you. I want to buy a battery charger IC, I don't want to have 4 people charge 5 hours each across a month going back and forth with you over multiple presentations of your entire product line.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 06:07:13 pm
content: I think this may be getting over stated. As I read the thread, there was a single datasheet that had gross copying issues that were not intentional and were quickly fixed. I also, did not get that point initially.Apart from that Microchip encrypts their data sheets, ostensibly, to discourage them from being edited and spread with false information - or for whatever their reason. The password security can be a little bit inconvenient but it does not prevent you from doing all sorts of things with the document. If it does, the security is not insurmountable.What is the problem exactly? What do you want to do with the datasheet that you can't?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 07:57:16 pm
content: I like being able to annotate datasheets, for example.That usually isn't possible if the document has high levels of protection enabled.If it does, I usually just print it to a PDF file, and use that copy instead... no password, and no problem making annotations.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 12:06:47 am
content: Quote from: Striker on July 08, 2020, 02:52:55 pmThat's probably because they are doing compression and "subset font embedding", and have not included the glyph-to-character mapping table(s), not out of a desire for DRM.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 12:22:32 am
content: In Okular, there's an option to ignore DRM.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 01:21:01 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 09, 2020, 12:22:32 amIntriguing... is there a version that will work on Win 7?[Edit: Downloaded the current unstable/development version, it works great on Win 7 and yes, it does ignore DRM in the sense that it allows you to add bookmarks and annotations to a protected document. However, it is not a patch on the Foxit Reader in terms of other features and the ability to ignore DRM is not enough to make up for it for me.]

author: Rudolph Riedel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 04:53:54 pm
content: I just tried rev B/C/D/E of the ATSAMC2x datasheet and I can copy from all of them.This may be the Foxit Reader I am using though.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 05:06:47 pm
content: There are no longer locked version available. The broken version (D, I think) was available for a couple weeks after it was released. Then the problem was fixed.If you downloaded the document outside of those two weeks, you would not see any issues.

author: Rudolph Riedel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 05:16:51 pm
content: Ah, they replaced the files keeping the revision, thanks.So if I run into this issue I'll try to download the datasheet again.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 05:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 09, 2020, 05:06:47 pmThat is not correct, the datasheet PDF is still "secured".We are talking about the "SAM C20/C21 Family Data Sheet", right?I just downloaded it from:https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/SAM-C20C21-Family-Data-Sheet-DS60001479E.pdfIt says it is "Revision E - 06/2020".The PDF file was created on 6/25/20.The PDF is secured with 3 functions not allowed (see attached image).As I mentioned, this "security" can be removed easily with the qpdf program.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 05:26:35 pm
content: Yes, all datasheets will be "secured", this is not going to change. The issue was that "Content Copying" was not allowed.