I splurged and got some new test leads. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 10:01:01 pm
content: Well, after the ebay seller sending a second pair of leads for my UNI-T meter since one of them got bent, and snapped trying to straighten it, I got fed up and went to a local electrical shop, and finally grabbed some leads I had been drooling over for quite some time. $43 is still pretty darn pricy, but if I take car of these they should last the rest of my life, and it's the first time I've had silicon ones. They are ridiculously nice.

author: Richard Head
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 08:07:42 am
content: Yes, they are really good quality, just like all Fluke instruments. I'm just not sure they tick the "value-for-money" box.I really wish that Fluke would change the design of their test leads slightly so you could repair/replace the wire rather than have to replace the entire lead and test probe.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 12:24:58 pm
content: You can find a number of reviews on these leads, they are very good, and yes, Fluke does make a version with removable probes so you can interchange it with your other Fluke cables or replace just the cables or probe, whatever wears out. There TL175's are also sold with the Pomona brand, in case you can't find them in your location.http://en-us.fluke.com/products/all-accessories/fluke-tp175.html?ref=/products/all-accessoriesAbruptly at ~ 2014, when the Chinese economy has some big change, the price rose; when before you could easily get those leads from China directly via eBay or Amazon for $12 a pair; anticipating it was old stock, I bought 4 sets.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 12:28:21 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on June 09, 2016, 12:24:58 pmThough the above could be possible fake from sellers on ebay, aliexpress and Amazon sellers abroad. There was a followup, but right now I can't remember in which video?

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 12:39:39 pm
content: Some more info in Martin's forum re TL175http://www.mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=193.0http://www.mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 01:28:58 pm
content: Thanks retiredcaps.For the OP, does your leads have the bright yellow banded "Fluke" brand on the shaft of the probes? I think that design was changed in 2012.Could you also take a photo of the 'country of origin' label at the bottom of the blister package at the back?A recent, 2013, lead product release video from Fluke. See at 1:19Also a new product c2016 Pomona version.I'll have more later!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 02:12:39 pm
content: Fluke leads are not that good, except maybe their ultra sharp probes. Those safety shrouds around the banana plugs are a pain in the arse. The Hoo Flung Dung brand leads you get with cheap multimeters are a useless except maybe to tie up your tomato plants. The best all-round leads at a reasonable price are HCK brand. I bought several complete sets for myself and a team of debug techs - they lasted for years and were very versatile and well designed. I had different coloured leads so tracing them in a rats nest is easy.Even so, there is plenty of opportunity for someone to invent really well designed test leads. That is, those you can easily piggy back other devices onto the leads, and where you can grab almost any leg on a TSSOP without slipping and shorting to the pin next door. There are some devices available, but trying to keep them there hands-free is a near impossible balancing act.I try to design boards where I can with test points with holes that will fit a sharp probe without falling out. Not necessarily one test point per net (if it is not going to have ICT), but strategic test points for probing areas of interest with a CRO or meter. I put the text, such as "TP12" always with the bottom of the characters facing the test point, or the first character nearest the test point. Having test points (or any component designator always facing the same way for readability is pointless because ambiguity between test points is a far worse evil than reading upside down or sideways.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 02:15:29 pm
content: Yeah, these have the bright yellow branding, and were manufactured in 2014.Checked on ebay beforehand and it all came close enough to the in store ones that it was more worthwhile having them now than saving a few bucks. I do like the grey in that new design, for the cat rating area. Easier to read.The alligator clip accessories I have which just slide on still fit these so I don't need to go buy any new ones for now.Do these not have removable tips? I wasn't expecting them but that's brilliant.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 02:39:07 pm
content: Thanks, does it say made in USA on the bottom of the back of the blister pack? Maybe two versions are in circulation, one without the yellow, but you can't beat buying one retail from a known distributor to be sure of its provenance.Quote from: XOIIO on June 09, 2016, 02:15:29 pm

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 02:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on June 09, 2016, 02:39:07 pmYes, it does. I have no doubt they are legit, they carry lots of fluke stuff, atexorbitantfluke prices.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 02:45:14 pm
content: I did a spectrometric test on the materials of the Chinese TL175 and they are very close to US version, but not identical. For control, my silicone Agilent probes and the PVC TL75 are much farther apart in signature, as expected; so if the Chinese probes are counterfeit they are very good ones! Also I tested them to 3kVDC as well as 5A against the US versions and identical response, i.e., suggesting the copper is the same gauge and the insulation acceptable; now these probes are for operation < 1kV.In usage and feel, the Chinese and US version feel nearly identical, but the US version is more buttery smooth.Its rare to find counterfeit Fluke products that do not feel and work very distinctly counterfeit. FWIW finding a counterfeit Fluke anything is fairly rare, they do enforce their IP quite emphatically worldwide. Same thing with counterfeit Agilent devices/accessories and Pomona, not sure again why, maybe not big enough market for the counterfeiters while.Enjoy your TL175. They will likely last you a lifetime, I still have TL75 from 1980s still working and in good order.Quote from: retiredcaps on June 09, 2016, 12:28:21 pm

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 02:19:01 am
content: Quote from: saturation on June 09, 2016, 02:45:14 pmWhat equipment are you using?

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 04:49:30 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 09, 2016, 02:41:40 pmDoesn't help that our CDN dollar is low as opposed to parity not that long.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 05:14:26 am
content: Quote from: Richard Head on June 09, 2016, 08:07:42 amThey offer that already, the matching part is the TP175 probe match with "SureGrip" leads. Its a great line with many practical options for electrical test.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:57:58 am
content: Handheld FTIR spectrometer. I asked a lab to buzz the material and show me the spectra. The only flaw in my method is whether I chose the wrong device, Raman or FTIR or near IR.Its the solution to counterfeit; if the counterfeiters can copy a product down to the molecular level, then what difference does it make? In reality, that is nearly impossible as you can identify pollutants as well as the required material. But if the item is functionally similar, its moot again except for the idea of intellectual property.The key isn't waiting to see the device interpretation, but the raw spectral signature.Now, I'd like to own one to check materials I use daily, but its too costly overall. This device or something like it, should it come to pass, will be the next great widget akin to the smartphone.http://www.cnet.com/news/kickstarter-science-beware-the-marketing-hype/It has to be accurate [i.e., the peaks are correct] and have spectral resolution [ i.e., the peaks are spread out wide] otherwise its worthless for what it should do.Quote from: joeqsmith on June 10, 2016, 02:19:01 am

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 12:15:23 am
content: Quote from: saturation on June 10, 2016, 11:57:58 amThe hype around portables is laughable for those of us who understand the underlying technology, especially in FTIR where spectral resolution is so tightly coupled with swept length. You've hit the nail on the head that everyone is ignoring about orthogonality (number of spectral lines required to classify a given number of unknowns) as untangling/deconvolution is still not robust enough for the proposed applications. I'll call out one company in particular thats using unrealistic claims to gain investment:http://www.impactvi.com/https://youtu.be/EaeRlzm-tWMhttps://youtu.be/K8uO6kRokacThough they're not putting much public their pitch is full of future projections that assume we'll have pocket spectrometers they can apply their middleware to, hoping to get a head start on the industry by building spectral databases. Industry already do this themselves, but apply carefully chosen hardware to a narrow application, the dreams of a universal optical analysis tool are decades off being practical at all and will probably never reach consumer volume.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 03:12:31 am
content: Watched the videos. So, you ran the plating, then an area where you ground it off assuming the material was homogeneous?Quote from: saturation on June 10, 2016, 11:57:58 am

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 02:46:40 pm
content: Hi Joe, its nondestructive, no grinding, shaving etc., its simply point and shoot, its really the tricorder of Star Trek except the sample must be close if not pressed against the sensor for non-metals.The spectrometers reads everything it touches, including your fingerprints and cleaning agents, but its also quantitative so molecules of the core substance will dominate the spectra but contaminants will confound interpreting the graph; I ran the cables, the probe body on one gun and the head on another, and compared it against the true Fluke TL175, I did not interpret the graph. Yes, it will penetrate even plating on the probe head,if has it.@ Someone: yep as you say, there are several types of spectrometric methods so the idea of one doing everything is something to see. Currently each type of spectrometer and method is focused on a set of substances like x-ray fluorescence "XRF" spectrometer for metals, or near infrared spectrometer for polymers.Each one of those handhelds run ~$20,000, new.A graph looks like an FFT from DSO but the axis mean something different.I'm not sure if there is a huge surplus of older models or a price break, I increasingly see metal recyclers carrying these guns so it seems it pays for itself fairly quickly.http://www.ebay.com/bhp/xrf-analyzerQuote from: joeqsmith on June 11, 2016, 03:12:31 am

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 06:18:07 pm
content: I have never looked at a probe in detail. I assume they are mostly brass. Do you see a peak for the copper, zinc and nickel? Copper dominates? Do you have any info on the thickness of the nickel plating?Quote

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 02:11:29 pm
content: Most quality DMM probes are copper alloy tips with nickel plating, much like a solder iron tip, for maximum conductivity and nickel for protection. It certainly can be brass, whichever is best balance between cost, strength and conductivity, methinks.An easy way to test at home is it magnetic? Cheapie probes tend to use a steel alloy. Legitimate accessories such as alligator clips and puncture type tips are also steel for strength rather than conductivity. But many Fluke and Pomona accessories meant for electrical connections tend to be copper alloy plated nickel. Cheap probes are very unlikely to use Al it has no rigidity.For the spectrometer, I only compared the shape of the curve to match the Fluke one fairly close, enough for me to say they were essentially identical, I did not try to identify the peaks to identify the substances.If you are destroying the probes in your good tests, one thing you could do is cross section the very tip with a dremel and examine the Ni thickness before you destroy it; you could clip your test probe below were you made the cut to so the effect of the Ni coat on conductivity test is not impaired.I'd be interested in the cross section too, I would guess Ni is as thick as a soldering iron tip, its mostly protective, not for strength and Ni is less conductive than copper.Enclosed is a spec sheet of the Pomona version of the TL175, materials are mentioned.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 03:12:03 pm
content: Did you get a report and if so, is it possible to post it?Brass is a copper alloy. This is why I asked if the peaks were highest for copper and zinc elements. Or are the peaks shown by mass? I wonder if what you see is mostly the nickel. It's strange they could know the material's makeup without doing a destructive test.I tossed out all of the probes I tested. Are you thinking the cross section of the tip or the connector? Which dimension do you think would be important?Besides the solder melting on the Probe Master tip, all of the failures were the wire.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 03:19:14 pm
content: I doubt I could do anything with a Dremel to get the plating thickness. Plating thickness for the tip would be a difficult test to do at home.Quote from: saturation on June 12, 2016, 02:11:29 pm

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2016, 11:06:38 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 08, 2016, 10:01:01 pmIf you somehow trap these shiny new test lead between the cover and base of a Festool systainer toolbox the insulation will easily cut, rendering the leads utterly useless.DAMHIKT