Upgrading from a Tektronix 2213A 60Mhz scope to a modern digital scope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: FlyingBrick12
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 04:17:54 pm
content: Hi thereAs a complete newbie to this forum I would like if possible to get some positive help in looking for a modern digital oscilloscope. I have at the moment a Tekronix 2213A 60HMz dual channel scope that has served me well and the only fault has been the usual out of focus problem that was fixed with some decent 510K resistors being replaced. So in 30 years that has been the only fault occurring plus one recent calibration having got hold of the paperwork to go through the procedure. Lovely discrete components to play with.My question is I know nothing of Chinese mass produced scopes and how long they will last before something goes down plus of course nothing like the service and repair sheets out on Tek scopes as the years go by. Had just seen the great EEV video blog on Agilent/Keysight scopes which look promising for the money and quality of the fixtures. Spent a day trawling round the internet and found the Keysight DSOX- 2012A scope with a reasonable price in the UK but if I purchase it with the APPLBNDL it is only costing another £100 UK sterling for the full works on the DSOX-2012A basic 100Mhz dual channel scope.Would this scope be a good buy with the bundle thrown in for just another £100 and hopefully be able to repair it in future years? Everybody seems to check stuff out quickly but not long term as I have found out with some motorbike manufactures when doing all my own servicing.Any information on the reliability off Agilent/Keysight scopes appreciated or is there a better make to go for under £1.6K sterling in the UK. Hunting around for a minimum of 100MHz dual or four channel scope. Semi retired so company 10K scopes out of the question for me.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 05:42:58 pm
content: In my humble view, the question is why you want a new scope. In my book, there is nothing like an old-fashioned analog scope for analog signals. Sure it doesn't have all the fancy digital processing stuff you can get in a modern scope, but you do get bandwidth and it is usually a rock solid piece of equipment.I myself was debating what kind of scope to get recently. When an old Philips PM3260 appeared for next to nothing on the local Ebay-clone (blocket.se), I grabbed it and it does the job I need it to do perfectly. At some point, I might get a fancy digital scope too, but right now I'm more than happy with the analog one.The tricky bit, when it comes to digital scopes, is that there is more to things than just looking at bandwidth. You need to look at whole host of parameters to determine if the scope is actually capable of doing what you expect it to do.

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:11:16 pm
content: It's pointless to ask for scope advice if you're not saying a single word about what you want to do with it.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:58:13 pm
content: It's worth searching this forum for other threads. The most popular scopes as far as 'bang for buck' goes are the Rigol offerings. You may need something more advanced though.

author: FlyingBrick12
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 09:57:37 pm
content: Hi dom0See your point. Well I was looking for a general use home scope for the repair of hi fi equipment and being able to look at distortion coming out of the amps. Also general repair of FM Kenwood dual band radios etc.I used to be employed in the video broadcast industry installing and the repair of special effects equipment and TBC ‘s mainly with PAL TV systems plus the old cathode ray tube broadcast monitors. So I was looking into the amateur end of a useful home digital scope as I no longer have the use of expensive professional equipment for general repairs from my own small workshop at home. No longer have an estate car loaded up with waveform monitor and vectorscopes plus an expensive top end Tektronix scope.After a 30 year old personnel home scope thought it was time to have a modern scope that can be used to look at digital signals as well as freezing glitches. I did want something that was well built to last and not something to throw out after five years use. Not into the latest must have piece of kit only to sell it on eBay for peanuts in a couple of years.Hi DaveYes have had a quick look at Rigol but having repaired some Chinese equipment for the domestic market and was very worried about their long term use and reliability plus the standard of build, suppose I have been spoilt with using Fluke, Old Tektronix and AVO equipment over the years. Is the Rigol brand use it today and throw it away in a few years? Have never had or used their equipment so totally in the dark about what is inside the plastic box but have heard Agilent and now of course Keysight from Malaysia.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:19:04 pm
content: Lots of Agilent/Keysight fans here. DSOX-2012A is a fine scope and the price is attractive when you can get the options bundle for 100 Pounds UK.Some questions/considerations? Can you live with 2 channels? Or do you want/need 4 channels? How much if any digital channel (logic analyzer) functionality do you want/need?I think you will find that lots of people here think some Chinese companies can make good products (Rigol being an EEV favorite), but if Agilent makes you happier no reason not to go with Agilent if you have the budget.I think your best bet is to either figure out what functions and performance specs you need/want, and then see which company has a model that can reliably meet those requirements for the lowest budget, or figure out what your max budget is and see which company can give you the model with the most features and performance with an acceptable level of reliability.Be prepared to hear lots of folks advocating Rigol's 1054Z, possibly 1074Z, and maybe 2072A; then be prepared for a fair number of people telling you they are inferior to Agilent.Personally, I think when you find the Rigol or the Agilent with the features and performance you want and can afford you can make case that either will make you happy if you have your heart set on one or the other.Keep your 2213A and whichever digital scope you choose the two will make a nice pair.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 11:38:00 pm
content: There is an old adage that is relevant - buy the best tool that you can afford for the job.Define the job first - eg. frequency, channels, etc., 24/7 industrial in a hostile environment - to occasional use, and all variations inbetween.Trouble is that then find out you can't afford it and have to compromise.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 11:47:42 pm
content: I have a 2213a too, and I used to use it daily...until the Rigol DS1054Z came along last month. Now I think the only time I've powered up the 2213a since I got the Rigol was to shoot a digital-analog comparison video.If you are concerned about build quality, check out Dave's teardown video of the DS1054z.Probes, now, are another issue; the ones that come with the Rigol are just adequate, that's all, and some people have reported quality issues with them.But if you've got the budget for a Keysight, why not? I've heard a rumor that they are made in the same factory as the Rigols. Certainly you'll be getting better probes with the Keysight!

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 01:08:41 am
content: Unfortunately modern test gear is becoming less repairable, esp after 10+yrs, I doubt you will find the special ICs at that stage, that said a dso is very useful, not just for digital stuff,: single (pathological) events are captured a lot more easily with a dso . I am a HP fan, mainly due to manual availability online but recent stuff rarely has a circuit diagram! Build quality and user interface usually very good.

author: FlyingBrick12
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 11:15:35 am
content: Thanks for the help everybody.Not stuck on any particular brand just Agilent was one I had heard from a couple of service engineers as middle of the road priced scope. Normally the higher the price for my tools the better the quality of manufacture. Was hoping somebody had recently purchased in the last two years one of the newer digital scopes around 100MHz-200MHz dual channel and happy about the quality of the screen, front panel knobs that feel reasonably solid and no flaky assembly. The RIGOL brand do give a hell of a lot for the price but something must go in the assembly surely? Mainly for home use but will come out in the van for some jobs.This seems to be the big problem as manufactures throw out a new digital model every year as in the camera industry and there is no time lag to see how they fair up over the years. Still have NIkon F camera and Olympus OM1 &OM2 that work perfectly but of course nobody wants them in this digital age. Just so many brands on the market mainly from China.

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 11:20:54 am
content: Quote from: FlyingBrick12 on May 25, 2015, 11:15:35 amIs that so? Nikon hasn't changed their system in over fifty years, you can still use old lenses (with varying degrees of automated functionality) on current bodies.

author: FlyingBrick12
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 03:24:40 pm
content: Thanks everybody for your suggestions.Will go for a Keysight DSOX-2012A with the bundle thrown in for an extra £100 UK sterling and see how things pan out.Middle of the road hobbyist digital scope with some back up, let you know how I get on with it once ordered.Superb forum by the way and wish I had come across it a long time ago for helpful information as I am no longer directly in the broadcast industry getting feedback on equipment used good or bad from technicians and editors.Leave you in piece.

author: FlyingBrick12
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 05:01:24 pm
content: Hi Dom0I talked about cameras not lenses. No longer can you pop down the shop to process 35mm film in my area?Sold all my darkroom equipment up for peanuts including a professional Durst colour enlarger for up to 5 by 4 negatives.