Learning the Art of Electronics book - parts list published anywhere? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 01:22:01 pm
content: Does anyone know if this is published anywhere (think it's page 1105) so I can get a look at it without having to get a copy myself?

author: indole
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 03:50:33 pm
content: My copy has shipped and I should be getting it tomorrow, if there is a parts list I'll take a picture and post if that works. I was looking for such a thing while it was on back-order as I wanted to make sure I had everything on hand.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 03:54:29 pm
content: Thank you - I would appreciate that!

author: joao
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 05:27:21 pm
content: Hello!I just bought the two books, "The Art of Electronics" and "Learn the Art of Electronics". Which should I read first? Or should I read both at the same time? Thanks.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 05:31:14 pm
content: joao, I'd say if you're going to read through either from front to back then "Learning the Art of Electronics" but jump into the relevant section of The Art of Electronics for more details as needed.

author: joao
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2016, 05:56:27 pm
content: Thanks. That makes sense.

author: indole
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 01:34:58 am
content: I just took a look at the parts list in the back of the book, and it's nothing more than just a general list of recommended equipment/tools such as Oscilloscope, DVM/VOM etc. I can take a picture of if needed but it's not the list of components used throughout the book. A quick glance through the chapters and I didn't see a quick reference to the components used during the chapter, but I may have missed.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 02:53:28 am
content: There is a parts list for all components used, forgot the page number but it's there somewhere. I don't think it says for what chapter, it's just everything.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2016, 06:35:19 am
content: Quote from: indole on March 15, 2016, 01:34:58 amPerfect thanks for this - appreciated. I'll throw together a generic parts kit for him.

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 11:42:58 am
content: I'm a bit confused now. "Learning the Art of Electronics" is not the X-Chapter book, is it? When does that come out, I cannot find any information about it, except the fact that the book is coming, eventually.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2016, 12:05:22 pm
content: No - learning the art is the lab guide for it which is an end to end course that refers back to the book.I'd like the X-chapter book as well when/if it turns up.

author: BobsURuncle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 10:35:56 pm
content: Here I put all the parts in spreadsheets that can be uploaded into the distributors shopping carts.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/learning-the-art-of-electronics-parts-bom/

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 04:48:08 am
content: Why is the BOM list over $500?Is it to build this 400$ synthesizer?http://seti.harvard.edu/synth/Also is the list for the lab guide or main book?

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 03:14:10 pm
content: Thanks all. The BOM is expensive but most parts can be subbed easily. You don't really need expensive tantalum caps and brand parts for most of it. If anyone is interested I may write up a list of 'cheap' substitutes. I can't find a line item that you can't cheap onPlus for the original book I built my own cheap sweep gen, pulse generator and function generator. The latter, xr2206 based just died a few weeks back so I'm doing a new discrete design for a sweeping gen good to 1MHz that you can build for about $25. It is roughly based on a couple of voltage controlled current sources to charge/discharge a cap, current switch, comparator, sine shaper and amp and not much else other than cheap shit from China. Most of it was shamelessly stolen from Tek TM500 series and Thandar schematics.

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 05:12:57 pm
content: I'd be really interested in a cheap version of the list. But it would be great, if it is still with digikey/mouser part numbers.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 05:15:30 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/learning-the-art-of-electronics-parts-bom/

author: BobsURuncle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 09:08:01 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on March 27, 2016, 04:48:08 amThere are good reasons these are expensive.1.The course has 25 different basic laboratory sections with multiple builds and or modifications of builds. These labs cover much of the wide scope of the digital and analog electronics field. This by definition requires a wide selection of parts if your are going to explore all the book has to offer.2. You are buying just one or a few of each part so you are not getting any volume discount.3. It is certainly possible in some cases, via substitution or shopping, to find less expensive alternatives to the parts used in the book but....- If you do this for all the parts up front, it would probably require more knowledge than someone taking the course is likely to possess and it would take a lot of time.- On the other hand if you do it as you go and only buy parts for a few lab sections at a time then you are going to be paying mailing and handling costs that are likely to be more than the savings you got for all your efforts.- If you substitute, in some cases, the parts will not be equivalent so you will not be able to follow the results and designs in the text without some modification ( not necessarily a bad thing).4. A few of the parts are obsolete and being held by just one or two distributors and they are getting top dollar for their efforts ( particularly in the digital section) It would be nice to seesubstitutes from the authors with whatever modifications are needed in the circuits and code for those projects.5. There are a few select parts that are expensive, you could simply forego those projects with little or no loss of education - the current regulator diode comes to mind.Perhaps someday the authors will organize a kit, (buying in volume) to help bring down the total costs.Personally, I bit the bullet and bought the whole kit and kaboodle. Except for resistors and caps for which I already have a nice inventory. Probably I could have foregone purchase of a few transistors and op amps as well if I had cross checked carefully, but you can never have too many of those anyway. The longer you wait the more likely that more parts will become obsolete or difficult to find. The total cost was a fraction of what I have spent on my lab and I will be able to reuse some of these parts for other projects anyway - expanding the scope of my laboratory on-hand components.On the whole, after seeing the size of this 1100 page lab book, the total cost of parts came in on the low side of what I was anticipating.

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 04:15:31 am
content: Is that still going? We used that in first year. It appeared quite dated just several years later as a text on electronics would.Must be a hell of a job rewriting things for subsequent editions to keep the title current

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 07:15:08 am
content: So where does the synthesizer fit in with the above?

author: RLSprouse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 04:54:45 pm
content: I for one would love to get a kit for all the stuff needed for the labs. I have built a pretty good collection of goodies for simpler things, so I will probably end up just getting miscellaneous parts as I need them, working through the book.I have a specific question on one needed item. On page 28 they talk about a "bare meter movement" but they don't specify just what they are using. And I don't see it in either Appendix E or the lists BobsURuncle put together. I have a simple 10mA bare ammeter, is that what they mean?

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 06:50:41 pm
content: This what they mean. There is a reference to it somewhere. Basically a 100uA movement. 10mA is probably a bit much and is already shunted.

author: RLSprouse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 08:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on April 08, 2016, 06:50:41 pmThanks, MrSlack. I also have a 1mA movement and a 50uA movement. I did play with the 10mA meter, and in series with a 1K resistor, it deflects full scale when I apply 10V, so I guess it all depends on what series resistance you need to add, to calibrate it to the desired voltage range.I'll see if I can order a 100uA movement somewhere.Follow-up question: How do I determine if the movement is already shunted? I assume by "shunted" you are referring to the addition of the two paralleled and opposite-oriented diodes?

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2016, 11:00:20 am
content: If you change the series resistor then yes that will do the job. However if it's a 1mA movement you will need more current to deflect at and that will burden your circuit. 50uA is better than 100uA. Just use a bigger resistor!If it's already shunted it usually has a resistor across it inside the movement. Adding diodes just prevents the meter coil being overloaded too badly. The deflection is a function of current and the resistance of the meter so adding diodes constrains this.

author: RLSprouse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 04:37:52 am
content: So the only way to know if a meter is "shunted" is to open it up and look to see if there is a resistor across the terminals?I did the experiment again, this time using my 50uA meter, and I calculated that it would require a 200K resistor in series. I used a 150K and a 51K in series, and it worked fine, showing full deflection at 10V.Something interesting: when I measured my 10mA meter for resistance as the text suggests, it measured just 2.8 ohms. But when I measured the 50uA meter, it measured 2.95K ohms. Is this to be expected? It seems kind of high to me. Would this resistance materially affect the current being measured?I'll run the same tests when my 100uA meter arrives.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 08:13:01 am
content: Yes that's expected. The 10mA meter has a shunt resistor across it in the order of 2.5 ohms so you're seeing that. The 50uA has just the movement resistsnfe which is much higher.

author: Mule
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 01:33:51 pm
content: I also have a couple of questions on the "meter movement" on page 27.Where is it in the kit list? What is the part called?Where can I buy one?Cheers

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2017, 11:06:30 pm
content: Quote from: Mule on April 20, 2017, 01:33:51 pmAm having the exact same issue. Its rather frustrating - I just spent a few hundred pounds on parts following the list, set up a lab .. its taken quite some time to get to this point. Very first lab in the book and he's talking about a part that's not in the list. Doesn't help that rather than being a "guided" lab where he tells you what to do, its a "figure it out on your own" deal.Essentially its a "D'Arsonval movement" that we need, which is the mechanism inside an analog voltmeter. I am wondering if you can just buy a cheap voltmeter and pull its guts out.I am also wondering how many more of these little "no parts" landmines are scattered throughout the book. He acknowledges in places that things will be different for home users, then promptly forgets it in the next paragraph.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 12:20:37 am
content: Maybe not every lab is worth doing. If you don't have an analog meter (even a V-O-M), skip over it and come back some day. Or not...The more interesting lab is a few pages later where the topic is diode I-V curves.If you want a nice analog meter, here is the replacement part for the venerable Simpson 260http://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-260-Series-6XLP-replacement-front-meter-panel-for-VOM-multimeter-/262927460493Or the entire meter:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Simpson-260-series-7-analog-VOM-protected-Volt-Ohm-Milliameter-/112374043361Everybody needs a V-O-M and the Simpson 260 has been around for decades.I was always partial to Tripletthttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-2-Triplett-630-VOM-Portable-Desktop-Volt-Ohm-Milliammeter-Multimeter-Module-/112361841372Availability varies by country, of course, but there should be something available locally.

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 01:02:38 am
content: Hi rstoferThe thing is its not the entire meter you need, just the mechanical movement. I would like to complete it, but moving on til I can source one is certainly a thought worth entertaining, and now I have a new problem .... I have been searching through my bags and bags of parts from digikey and mouser for 20 minutes looking for my 1N914 DiodeI need some parts stores

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 02:07:36 am
content: You should be able to find a meter on ebay, just search for analog panel meter. Does the book give any kind of specification? Current required for full scale reading might be all that's important.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 02:50:02 am
content: Quote from: SpannersToSparks on April 22, 2017, 01:02:38 amUse a 1N4148https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/166828/difference-between-1n914-and-1n4148-diodes

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 03:01:40 am
content: You will run across obsolete component requirements throughout the book. The book is OLD!So, hit up Google and see what shakes out. "replacement for 1N914" is one way to find a substitute.I like the old 1N914 and I have a hundred or so. They are still available but the 1N4148 is easier to source.Part of the learning experience will be substituting obsolete components and the other will be in scaling the problems. You might not have a particular resistor or capacitor value. Coming up with a substitute and intuiting how the results will change turns out to be more important than the original experiment.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 03:40:11 am
content: I don't think doing the hands with the analog ammeter and voltmeter(pgs 27-28) is that critical. It is clearly discussing it as a classroom exercise set up by an instructor.But if you want to experiment with analog panel ammeters,they're very cheap on eBay.As far as diodes used with this, the current version of this book (2016) suggests 1N4004 s which are easy to source.The 1N914 seen in the drawing of the circuit on the following page (29) - used to draw diode IV curves -could be substituted with almost any common diode, including a 1N4004.

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 01:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 22, 2017, 03:01:40 amI am using the brand new version of the student manual that was recently released (not the old spiral bound silver thing), and have got a 1N914 in the suggested kit. Good to know that finding ways round the problem will still be of use though!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 03:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: SpannersToSparks on April 22, 2017, 01:32:27 pmI have the latest version as well but the book itself is still OLD. Whatever updates that may have been made certainly haven't drug it into the 21st century. In some ways, this is a good thing. The book is still using DIP components instead of moving on to SMD and adapters.There are going to be a lot of issues with obsolete components and working around that fact is part of the exercise. From a hobbyist point of view, that may be the more important lesson. There are a lot of projects on the Internet that are old enough that component availability is an issue. It's good to know how to work around that fact.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 04:07:05 pm
content: Re: "Meter Movement"It appears that the objective here is to learn how to design a circuit that allows one to measure Voltage, Current, and Resistance over several ranges with nothing but a power source and a few resistors and a simple meter. The exercise teaches how a VOM multi-meter (whether digital or analog) works. And it gives you the understanding how to measure and scale various electrical properties.For example, if you were making a bench power supply, you would understand the principles of using a shunt to measure current. Doesn't matter whether you are displaying the current on a vintage D'Arsonval panel meter, or feeding an Analog to Digital converter input.When the book says "bare meter movement" it means a simple analog panel meter. It does not mean the very fragile and delicate D'Arsonval motor mechanism INSIDE the case. Unless you intend to become an "electronic archaeologist" and repair the antique things it is sufficient to understand that the meter needle moves relative to the amount of current through the coil.If I were doing this experiment, I would get something like: 50UA DC PANEL METER - CAT# PMD-50UA$12.00 each"http://www.allelectronics.com/item/pmd-50ua/50ua-dc-panel-meter/1.htmlUsing a meter that already has all the Volt, Amp, Ohms scales printed on it (as that Ebay Simpson replacement) is "cheating" as it has already worked out the non-linear resistance scale, etc. The objective of the exercise appears to be working out the circuit configuration, resistance/shunt values, and creating your own scales, especially for resistance.

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 04:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on April 22, 2017, 04:07:05 pmHi RichardI think that is what I will ultimately end up doing. Will a panel meter contain any resistors? As you say the aim is to first make a voltmeter, and then an ammeter from the same equipment. I am assuming that any pre-installed resistors would make the exercise more difficult?EDIT: And yes you are correct, the aim of the experiment is simply to first design the circuit such that you get full deflection at 10V, and then the second one at 2mA. No cheating with pre-calibrated meters

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 04:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: SpannersToSparks on April 22, 2017, 04:12:04 pmThat is why I selected the very lowest value (most sensitive) DC ammeter from the wide variety of mechanically identical meters offered on that page. The 50uA meter is the LEAST likely to contain ANY internal shunt, etc. And even if it did, it wouldn't change the objective and learning from the experiment.All the other meters certainly contain shunts (for higher-current Ammeters), and/or series resistance (for Volt meters) and/or rectifiers (for AC meters). They are fundamentally all the same 50uA meter movement, but with various other internal components to allow measuring higher amps, volts, AC, etc.And that is essentially the purpose of the experiment. To first measure the sensitivity of the basic meter movement, and then design the external circuit to allow measurement of other things based on that.

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 04:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 22, 2017, 03:58:15 pmHm that is disappointing to hear, especially as someone looking to learn. Thanks again for your help however.

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2017, 04:23:58 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on April 22, 2017, 04:20:35 pmThank you, I will go down this path then. Much appreciate the help!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 04:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: SpannersToSparks on April 22, 2017, 04:22:08 pmI'm not thrilled either. On page 30, it mentions an experiment set up by the instructor. A footnote mentions that those doing it at home, and instructors, can get the instructions on the website. Are they there? Nope. (I just emailed them about this.)

author: Mule
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 07:52:10 am
content: Thanks for all the advice and help guys!A cheap analogue meter has been bought, looking forward to making the circuit.Cheers,

author: SpannersToSparks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 11:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on April 24, 2017, 04:56:24 pmDid you get a reply at all? I also sent him one over a week ago but got nothing back.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 08:03:32 am
content: Quote from: SpannersToSparks on May 03, 2017, 11:18:42 pmNope, not a peep.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 10:43:03 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on April 24, 2017, 04:56:24 pmThe experiment on page 30 is simply to get voltage versus current for some instructor assembled 'black boxes'. All this means is that you don't get to see inside the box and by making measurements, you deduce what has to be inside.The instructions just aren't important and are not needed. Grab a resistor or two, maybe a diode (what they are really trying to show) and a capacitor (should probably be large if you want to see the meter move slowly and maybe a current limiting resistor 10 ufd 100k?). I would put a current limiting resistor in series with the diode as well (100 Ohms?). I don't want the diode current approaching infinity just after it starts to conduct.You are to graph voltage versus current (the capacitor will ramp or spike, the resistor will be nice and linear and the diode won't conduct until you have about 0.7V across it in the proper direction) and try to determine what is in the box. Don't forget to check both polarities. The box could have a diode in parallel with a resistor (besides the current limiting resistor) so the measurements would vary depending on polarity. Tricky, those black boxes.Put a 9V battery in series with a 100 Ohm resistor, seal the box and work through the Thevenin equivalent circuit. Good stuff!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 11:23:50 pm
content: If you have a large value inductor plus a series resistor, you can pretend they are in a 'black box' as well.You should probably have the various current limiting resistors outside the box. This way you can get at both terminals of the 'hidden' device. Otherwise, you can only measure the current because the voltage will be whatever is supplied by the power supply.Or, build 3 terminal boxes so you can get at the junction of the resistor/device. That extra resistor in parallel with the diode is still pretty tricky.In one direction, the device looks like a simple resistor - nice and linear current vs voltage. In the other direction, the current takes off after the voltage gets to about 0.7V.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:35:03 pm
content: The point is, the book expressly says that one can get the instructions on the website, but you can't, and they're unresponsive to contact. Lame.