Looking to purchase scope, torn between models - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: adauphin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 05:01:12 pm
content: I think I'm finally going to pull the trigger on a good sub-$1K scope, this will be my max budget, that being said, I've been very interested in the $350-400 scopes with the contemplation of going to around $650-700. The $1K max is just that, not where I want to be but it depends on what the offerings are.I'm pretty much a hobbyist but I have always been someone who loves to diagnose problems and learn their inner workings. Whether it's automotive, electronics, anything that can be fixed....I'm all in, I just wished I had taken classes early on but I learn quick and have the desire to learn more as I go. Best part, when I get out the soldering gun, the 9YO is in full attention so being able to teach him as I go is a great feeling.I have a Tek 465B and a Global spec 4001 pulse generator does have it's limitations naturally but it's what I've been messing with.I don't know if I need more than a 100 MHz scope, or even 4 channels, but I would like to have the capabilities available so that's why I'm asking.The more I mess with electronics, the more I want to get involved. I have a couple amplifiers I'm trying to repair, I enjoy looking into a circuit and trying to see where I would have any distortion in the signal, whether its speaker crossovers, comparing components, etc. Also going into CATV and USB that's where I'm unsure of which scope will work best within my budget.The possibilities are endless when you have a good scope and there are many offerings right now that will fulfill my needs. The list goes on, but as far as either designing, troubleshooting, repair, I want a scope that has more than what I need and not just mostly fulfilling my needs. Granted that's a broad statement and goes into more than a 5 digit price tag but I trust you understand what I mean.So going on price point, I have read a lot about the 1054Z, as well as the 1202X-E. I have also considered the 1074Z and the 2304X.Should I opt for the 1074 or am I getting into territory with that one where I need to bust the 1K barrier to fully maximize it's potential? I was curious about the cosmetic quality of the Siglent scopes with the screen print on the buttons and the knobs not being as well made (wobble) as the Rigol...is this really an issue?I also need to factor in a decent signal generator so that can make or break the budget.I know the Rigol 1054Z has been the one to get based on performance per dollar, but are there other offerings now that I should opt for now or in the near future?All input and criticism appreciated.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 06:32:01 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 05:01:12 pmTypos ?4ch X-E is 1104X-E or 1204X-ESee this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/There might be a solution for your AWG needs as a 25 MHz USB (SAG1021) module is optional for these ^ too.http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fj.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=22304X is way outside your intended budget.http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1488&T=2&tid=1QuoteMost encoders on low cost equipment have a little shaft play and AFAIK it doesn't cause any issues.Button prints I don't have any complaints about.QuoteAs mentioned above or consider SDG1032X (30 MHz 2 ch)http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=4705&T=2&tid=16

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 07:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 05:01:12 pmNo! It's a complete waste of money.The basic Rigol DS1054Z can easily be unlocked to be a full 100MHz DS1104Z with all options enabled - far better than a 70MHz DS1074Z. This is what makes it the people's favorite - $350 buys you an awful lot of oscilloscope.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 07:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 05:01:12 pmEven on very expensive scopes the knobs on encoders will wobble.Did you look at MicSig's TO1000 series? The TO1104 is about half your budget. It has the most screen real-estate (800x600 display) and due to being battery powered it is portable as well. If you want to measure something in your car then having a real portable (=battery powered) scope is a big plus.

author: adauphin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 09:15:47 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 03, 2017, 06:32:01 pmSorry....yes, I had a few models I was researching and entered the wrong one.Thank you for the links.Quote from: Fungus on December 03, 2017, 07:05:42 pmThat seems to be the consensus and will likely be the route I take.Given the track record of this scope, and experienced users that have used it...if i were to up the ante a few hundred bucks from the 1054Z, will I end up with a better all-around unit, or will I need to dig much deeper into the wallet?So basically could I have all that the 1054Z offers with some options that experienced users would like to have, at a slightly higher budget? I understand that can be subjective, but the reason I ask is I don't know this scope well enough to wish I had other useful features.Great info btw, thanks so far.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 09:44:17 pm
content: Don't forget to call up your local Keysight/Tek distributor and ask if they have anything that was used for demo's. That's how I got mine.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 10:39:46 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 09:15:47 pmIn the sub $1000 range you'll end up with a unit which will have limitations (like no protocol decoding, slow user interface, limited functions, firmware bugs) one way or another. Pick two out of three: Good, cheap, many functions

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 12:24:32 am
content: For the uses OP adauphin specifies above, an analogue oscilloscope is a must,and if going for a new DSO(with bucketloads of WARRANTY and local seller support!)I would go with an established model that members here are familiar with.I'm no fan of 4 channel DSOs with 'shared controls' btw, but if you ignore that half baked feature on the Rigol and others, it's as good as it gets for the moneyThen again, a dedicated fully featured 2 channel DSO for a few dollars more may be the best way to go, with less compromises (freebies, hacks, channels, blah...)FWIW, always keep an analogue scope handy...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 04:33:08 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 09:15:47 pmHere's another and a very good deal on a SDS2204 from Siglent in Ohio but you'd need to be quicker than quick.https://store.siglentamerica.com/product-category/clearance/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 05:11:04 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 05:01:12 pmGiven these interests you might want to look at a thing called the "Analog Discovery".It has a 14-bit ADC so it can measure audio far more accurately thananylow end oscilloscope. It also has a built-in signal generator so you can do Bode plots, etc.It's also designed for educational use and "messing about with electronics".OTOH: It's not cheap and you can do audio analysis with a PC sound card and a few potentiometers.Quote from: adauphin on December 03, 2017, 05:01:12 pmThe DS1054Z isn't 100% perfect but it's a very well-known "devil" with an awful lot of owners here.There's a new Siglent for $500 which looks better on paper but it was only released last week and nobody knows if it's full of bugs yet. Siglent don't have a stellar record there. nb. There's a whole bunch of Siglent resellers lurking in these forums who will no doubt appear in the next few posts and tell you how incredible it is, take that with a pinch of salt until it proves itself (at least a Dave review and one firmware update).There's also the GW-Instek 1054B for about the same price as a DS1054Z. It's limited to 50MHz and not very "digital" (eg. no serial decoders) but it does "analog" things better than the DS1054Z so it could be what you're looking for (based on audio interests).No low end scope will do USB, etc.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 04:13:09 pm
content: Have you seenthis thread?Apparently Siglent forgot some important capacitors when they built some 'scopes. If you read the messages towards the end you'll find users being told they don't have a warranty.Buying any newly released product is a gamble.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 04:51:59 pm
content: As mentioned above, the DS1054Z is pretty well known. It's not perfect but it's darn good. I bought one to augment my Tek 485 and, no, I'm not going to get rid of the Tek.Everybody is waiting for the new Siglent SDS1204X-E to be released worldwide. Then the early adopters will be the beta testers for some number of months. It took Rigol a couple of years to debug the DS1054Z so I wouldn't expect anything different from Siglent. There will be problems and it will take time to get them worked out. The good news is that the vast majority of features will work and those that don't may not be important to any particular user. The DS1054Z FFT function is less than stellar. It doesn't matter, to me, because I have no use for the FFT function.Stop agonizing and drive a stake in the ground. There will always be something better - some time down the road or at some increase in price.In the $400 range, the DS1054Z is probably as good as it's going to get. The new Siglent seems to be priced somewhat higher - when it finally gets released.Yes, you will need to unlock the DS1054Z to get the decoding, 100 MHz bandwidth and other options. This is a well understood process.For a scope, the most important specification is bandwidth - except channels. There are perfectly good reasons for insisting on 4 channels - decoding SPI is one of them.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 05:00:40 pm
content: Yes, the price difference makes the choice easier. The DS1054Z is still a very good oscilloscope for a very sharp price. The SDS1204X-E is a better scope, but at a higher price. We also don't quite now what issues it might have. The price difference means that whatever you pick, you made a smart choice. Save money and buy a cheap and good scope, or spend money and buy a better scope. Unless the Siglent turns out to be a total disaster, you can't really go wrong either way.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 02:16:18 am
content: Start with a basic cheap scope and then when you have more idea what you need you can upgrade to another one.In the end it's only a tool and a means to get thru your project's debugging stage. Very few scopes will actually fail that purpose.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 02:16:45 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 04, 2017, 04:13:09 pmThe truth is that when you buy from abroad you must assume sending the defective scope to dealer which is not very economic .In my case I contacted Siglent Europe (Hamburg) and they told me that will send me a new motherboard and the warranty remain available for the rest of the time (3 years) . I think this is a correct and honorable attitude toward the clients .

author: adauphin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 02:31:20 pm
content: Sorry if this has been asked 500 times, but is there a cost involved in hacking the Rigol 1054Z?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 03:00:41 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 05, 2017, 02:31:20 pmNoThe process is described around here somewhere. Here is the web site, the only proper option is DSER so enter your serial number and follow the yellow brick road. Yes, I know DSER isn't on the list but it is the ONLY proper option.http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/ETAhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-unlock/msg958372/#msg958372You will need to RTFM to figure out how to get the code into the scope. Or maybe you can find it by searching around here.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 04:08:33 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 05, 2017, 03:00:41 pmYes, DSER is the one.You can enter the code via the front panel but it's a pain. The easiest way is with an Ethernet cable and telnet.Connect it up to PC and telnet to your 'scope on port 5555. Type::SYSTem:OPTion:INSTall XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXWhere XXX is your keyJob done.You can also remove the options with::SYSTem:OPTion:UNINSTall

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 04:57:53 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on December 05, 2017, 02:31:20 pmYes, two costs.Time.Loss of traceable calibration.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 05, 2017, 04:57:53 pmGetting desperate, tautech?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:13:15 pm
content: Mine didn't come with a traceable calibration soIt's not like a scope is a particularly accurate device anyway.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:14:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2017, 05:10:41 pmYOU ARE by denial of facts.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:16:58 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 05, 2017, 05:13:15 pmNeither did anybody else's.Quote from: bd139 on December 05, 2017, 05:13:15 pmOnly about 5% accuracy. Who'd want to traceably calibrate that?The bandwidth hack wouldn't affect the calibration anyway, it just disconnects a capacitor from the input. There's no change to either the internal voltage voltage reference or the vertical gain amplifiers.(and at least Rigol remembers to put all the capacitors in, unlikeSiglent, whomightsend you a couple of extra ones in the post after you bought it. If you're lucky.)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 05, 2017, 05:16:58 pmHahahahaIt's all Wun Hung Low vs Wan Hung Low at this price point anyway. YMMV etc etc.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 05, 2017, 05:19:44 pmIndeed. Rigol doesn't know how to use PLLs and voltage regulators properly.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 05:58:07 pm
content: Indeed. I'm actually using my recently acquired Tek 2225 a lot recently instead of my Rigol. The noise is horrific at low signal levels on the Rigol and the jitter isn't that great either. The 2225 noise isn't that great either but it's easier to see through it. An hour of pissing around with the averaging, trace persistence, sample rate etc got me nowhere on the Rigol. 2225 - turn intensity downFor the money though, it was a pretty good bit of kit. Still I don't think you can beat it for value for money. It does most of what it is supposed to do very well as long as you don't push the envelope at all. Or actually look near the envelopeIt is however getting shot in the head by a Keysight scope next year.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 12:43:24 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 05, 2017, 05:58:07 pmIf noise and jitter were amazing on the Rigol then there wouldn't be more expensive 'scopes on the market. $350 would be good enough for everybody.Quote from: bd139 on December 05, 2017, 05:58:07 pmExactly. If you draw a scatter graph of bang vs. buck then the DS1054Z stands out by a mile. For the last three years you had to spend $1000 to get something with more overall bang (mostly due to the DS10954Z's hackability).Since last week that $1000 is down to $500 and we're all winners! Thanks, Siglent! People who need more than the Rigol finally have an option.But ... 40% more money is still alotmore and the Rigol is still more oscilloscope than most hobbyists will ever need. Most oscilloscope work is just looking at wiggly lines on screen and the Rigol delivers just fine in that department.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 02:13:13 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 05, 2017, 05:58:07 pmHi, been trying to find the source, do you have a link to the info?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 02:29:18 pm
content: Quote from: imidis on December 06, 2017, 02:13:13 pmAs in mine is being replaced with a Keysight unit.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 07:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 06, 2017, 02:29:18 pmWhich Keysight do you see as a replacement or alternative to the 1054Z or the Siglent 100Mhz 4 ch version?BTW I paid $125 shipped for my 2225. I had to put in a used front panel board that cost another $45. A great little scope, quick to turn on and get a trace with minimum bells and whistles. I have a 475 for that but the 2225 is easier for most stuff.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 07:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on December 06, 2017, 07:04:22 pmI'm probably going for the 4 channel 200MHz Keysight unit. I haven't decided if I need the MSO option yet. Actually I need to see how ape shit my wife will go when I spend that much on a scopeI paid £49 for my 2225. It arrived with a smashed foot and a dead power supply. Repaired it and good as new nowI had a 475 and a 465B recently. Both dead on arrival for less than £30. I like repairing scopes so I buy dead ones. Threads here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tektronix-465b-repair-97327/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tektronix-475-repair-assistance/If you know what you're doing there are a lot of good bits of kit out there for literally no cash!

author: mr.fabe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:23:37 pm
content: Siglent USA will not provide any support for the known "compensation issue" per my recent communication from them. If you decide to buy a Siglent, make sure you check the serial numbers carefully, otherwise, you'll be SOL. I thought they were a good company who supported their products but I was wrong. I would stay away from any Siglent product...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:26:32 pm
content: Yeah that sort of attitude is nail in coffin for me buying a product.Going the other way I ordered two knobs for a 23 year old power supply from Keysight the other day for under $5 including shipping...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:32:25 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 06, 2017, 07:33:36 pmI think you need to buy something nice for your wife as well which costs equally as much. My wife hates it when I buy things for myself even if I use them to make a living!

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 06, 2017, 07:33:36 pmAh thanks, thought they had a new scope coming. Hmm, mine would probably kill me LOL

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 08:49:55 pm
content: They only kill you if you tell them how much it cost

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 11:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 06, 2017, 08:32:25 pmI think she got a haircut of more than 200 pounds the other day. She should still be sitting pretty.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 01:28:36 am
content: I would tell the lady treasurer that instead of a 200 quid hairdo, nail jobhandbag, Botox, massage, jewellery, girlfriends catchup/meetup/dineup/boozeup/trinket showoff/ BS blab/backstab/b!tch session-Thrifty Guy-instead bought some gear that may/will bring money in... and do the equivalent male makeover thing next time aroundminus the girlfriend catchup of course!(hmmm...)----------------------FWIW: Siglent sorted out my 4ch boot up splash screen issue after a -half baked firmware- update and weird documentation. They sent me a file that fixed the issue after a few emails explaining what was going on.Not sure if mine has any missing caps yetbut at least Siglent and some/few/many? seller/agents are contactable and keen to sort out issues.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 03:12:43 am
content: Well I used to say this about guns and guitars, but now it is carrying over to scopes. My fear is that I will die and she will sell my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.Hardly original, but true.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 09:50:54 am
content: Don't freak out about thatNowadays they can easily check and value the gear on the internet and get top dollar for the guns, guitars and scopesTBH: if I was a grieving widow, I'd keep a couple of the guns loaded and handy for those times when the local predator thugs pop in for some easy single old person rainy day cashand help the @ssholes celebrate their LAST day on Earth

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 11:09:38 am
content: Quote from: Old Printer on December 07, 2017, 03:12:43 amWe can cover that for you, no problem.Just set up an automated system that posts her contact details and a list of equipment in these forums...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 02:28:49 pm
content: How about instead getting a 200 GBP haircut yourself next time? I'm quite curious what the wife will make of that. Maybe get some glitter on your temples too.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 04:13:06 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on December 07, 2017, 09:50:54 amI live in south Florida, not much crime here.Electronics is just a hobby for me, my day job is tail gunner on a bread truck

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 04:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 04, 2017, 04:33:08 amThe SDS2204 is a 4 ch 200 mhz scope for a very good price, but it is discontinued. I am a newbe and buying something that is already discontinued troubles me. For the foreseeable future a 1054Z is probably all the scope I will ever need, but I have this thing about the latest and most current technology. Could someone shed some light on why this model range has been discontinued?Sorry for back top back posts.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 05:13:08 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on December 07, 2017, 04:59:59 pmThe quoted posts retain context, don't be shy about including them.It ran alongside the upgraded model for a few years but those that would look at this class of DSO would shell out the little more for the better polished 2000X series. Capabilities are very similar. 2Gsa/s in both series but the X has 140 Mpts mem depth, twice the 2k series. I've had both as personal units and for the price I'd grab that 2204 in an instant.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 05:23:19 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on December 07, 2017, 04:59:59 pmBecause they have a newer model which is cheaper to produce thanks to more modern components.More importantly: So do their competitors...!Quote from: tautech on December 07, 2017, 05:13:08 pmI won't disagree. It's a beast. Some people around here would kill just for the 4 separate channel controls.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 05:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 07, 2017, 05:23:19 pmAbsolute BS.There are more expensive components in 2000X models than 2000 series.MSO connector and 2x memory.The 2kX models will outperform X-E in many tasks.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 05:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 07, 2017, 05:28:19 pmSo? If an individual chip costs more but enables more integration then it still lowers the overall price. What's the chip count on the two PCBs?Quote from: tautech on December 07, 2017, 05:28:19 pm$1000+ for those?

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 05:58:00 pm
content: If you have the funds, the 1074Z Plus may be kind of a better shot, as after Riglol you get a full MSO1104Z-S (the highest end DS1000Z.)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 06:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 07, 2017, 05:28:19 pmI'm pretty sure the SDS2000(X) will not outperform the latest Siglent scopes with the 1GHz ARM CPU under the hood. The only thing the SDS2000(X) series has going for them is the slightly bigger screen and individual channel controls. For the rest they are completely outdated so the SDS2204 Tautech linked to is in fact a bad deal. If I had to choose between the two I'd get the new SDS1204X-E because it costs little more and has much more going for it (including a better chance on the firmware getting finished).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 06:33:26 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 07, 2017, 06:00:39 pmI can't comment on firmware. If the firmware is crap then the other one may well be a bad deal despite beastlike paper specs.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 06:50:30 pm
content: It's nice to see that I'm not the only one with a 2225 that took a little repair. I do like that scope but am going to buy a DSO. Same dilemma - cheaper Rigol, discontinued scope or newer Siglent. Still wavering a bit. One thing the SDS1104XE doesn't look to be hackable up to 200 mhz based on the Dave video from last week (ADCs' speed). The SDS1204XE is more ($649??) and a bit beyond my willingness to pay. I'd be ok spending $500 though $328 for the Rigol is pretty enticing.Having used a Tek 2225 for the last 15 years makes buying a discontinued item pretty easy. It had long been discontinued when I bought it and has worked out well.

author: adauphin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:04:12 am
content: Ok, small bump here....I'm going to pull the trigger this weekend. I started to look into my 7.1 HT/Stereo pre-amp and I wish I had a new digital unit. I'm sure I can use my 465B but I really want a new one.Moving forward from December, is the 1054 still the one to get? My budget is $600 max, but would like to realistically be around $500 but can reach if it comes down to extra probes or a signal generator.I've looked at the Siglent 1204 X-E, I think that if I wanted to go beyond the 1054Z, then that would be the step worth taking.....am I correct to assume this? So it's either the Rigol 1054Z, or jump to the 1204...is there an in between scope worth looking at? Just covering my bases.Thanks again.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:23:40 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:04:12 amSince December there a whole lot more info available for the SDS1004X-E models, have you studied that ?Even the 1104X-E with all channels used has 2x the sampling rate of a 1054Z and if you do the study you'll see the same amount of memory.

author: adauphin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:42:11 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 03, 2018, 01:23:40 amI have not researched those since Dec....I figure the texh changes so rapidly I figured I would ask. Any models in particular I shpuld check?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 02:00:14 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:42:11 amThe most cost effective is SDS1104X-E @ $ 499 but there's a shortage of supply ATM due to demand.Have a look here as this thread has the best info anywhere about them:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/As you're US based you can get in the cue for one at Saelig where they'll have them in a few weeks and you can get an additional 6% discount from the Saelig discount thread.Good luck.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 09:29:23 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:04:12 amSounds about right.Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:04:12 amNo.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:05:34 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:42:11 amBuy theRigol DS1054Z-B from tequipment.net, you can also get a 6% discount off this price by requesting a code from the forum here that deals with the matter.I just bought the DS1054Z (refurbished) after RMAing my SDS1202X-E because Siglent wouldn't honor the warranty for the probe compensation issue (I still haven't been refunded but I'm told "the check's in the mail"). My DS1054Z was simply an open box item with all the probes etc. you can pay $50 more and get the non-refurb if you prefer. You'll get 4 channels (needed for proper SPI decoding), free official decoding, and easy bandwidth increase (via Riglol) up to 100 MHz (mine performs well at 150 MHz) for under $300 shipped. The firmware in the DS1054Z is pretty much debugged unlike some newer low end scopes.Protocol decoding in scopes is overrated; an analog scope (with 4 channels) is best to look at signal integrity plus being able to trigger of the serial stream is useful, but once you know the signals are good, you need something like aSalae Logic 16to do proper analysis of the bus traffic.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:13:26 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on December 07, 2017, 01:28:36 amThat has NOT been my experience when dealing with Siglent America, they stated that my SDS1202X-E scope with the compensation issue was "in specification" and that it was reasonable to expect a user to re-do probe compensation after every change the Y gain setting - to be fair to them, they did eventually agree to give me my money back but I had to fight for that and I still haven't received the check and they received my RMA'd unit nearly 2 weeks ago.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:15:41 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:04:12 amI don't know if has been mentioned before but the MicSig TO1104 is also a good option when looking for a 4 channel 100MHz scope. It is a step up from the the Rigol 1054Z, has the biggest screen of all (800x600) in this price range and it has mature firmware so it works as advertised.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:26:53 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on March 03, 2018, 11:05:34 amAlso known as the "Ooops, we forgot a couple of vital capacitors!" issue.Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on March 03, 2018, 11:13:26 amPeople may get fancy treatment if they have a local office and regularly go and spend money there. Random hobbyist who bought online? Not so much.Some forum members have persisted and Siglent sent them a couple of extra capacitors in the post to hand-solder to the PCB.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:34:19 am
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 03, 2018, 01:04:12 amIt's still a firm EEVBLOG favorite and with all the discounts flying around you might end up close to $325.Siglents may still have issues, both hardware and software. I wouldn't buy one if I wasn't 100% sure it was fresh off the production line. It may have some missing components if it's been on a shelf for a couple of months.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 11:58:01 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 03, 2018, 11:26:53 amI was amazed that they claimed (still do) that missing components off the PCB, components that are now fitted on newer scopes, was not a bug - kinda like Microsoft's "it's not a bug, it's a feature!"Don't write us off as "random hobbyists", we are paying customers and we deserve to be treated fairly.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on March 03, 2018, 11:58:01 amYep.nb. I'm not singling out Siglent for this behavior, most companies seem to be like this.There's a bunch of people in these forums who don't see why problems can't be solved by a simple phone call to the local office.(and why you can't get a replacement sent the same day!)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:23:29 pm
content: Yes. One part of my job is brow beating vendors into fixing shit. You’d be surprised how dismissive and difficult companies are to get simple shit fixed. It pays to skip the local reps most of the time, scan LinkedIn and use a bit of social engineering to get hold of an actual engineer. They care and can feed back to the process without going through OEM and sales.Apart from Keysight. Keysight are fucking amazing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:43:38 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on March 03, 2018, 01:23:29 pmI don't have personal experience with them, but: I think I'm right in saying that Keysight are the only company who've made the effort to have an active presence in these forms.(a presence which doesn't collapse in tears after a few astroturf posts).

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 01:50:39 pm
content: Yep exactly that. Also Keysight spares. Phoned up local rep to get two knobs for a 22 year old HP branded supply. Someone who knew arse from elbow answered, located stock, took payment and sent them to me as if it was a £10k order. It was a £2 order. And they forgot to charge me VATNext scope I buy will be Keysight.

author: adauphin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 09:26:53 pm
content: Order placed on the 1054Z.....Software bundle included and I added a 50 ohm adapter. Thanks for all the input!

author: TechnoTroll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 10:38:23 am
content: The1054Z1104Z is a great scope, you made the right decision. Google 'Riglol'

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 01:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: adauphin on March 06, 2018, 09:26:53 pmRight now the lowest price 4 channel Keysight scope I can find costs $1900. I wonder if they will try to get into the market with Rigol & Siglent, though not necessarily at that price point. If they could do one at $800 that would get my attention.