IGG: INTI: 240KW Solar Thermal Electric Generator - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 01:14:25 pm
content: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/inti-240kw-solar-thermal-electric-generator/This looks quite interesting. Multiple contradicting numbers, confusing energy with power ("1 watt = 860 Calories").

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 01:56:33 pm
content: QuoteHow's that work? Reducing the air temperature increases the amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth?There's some creative physics going on here. Smells too much like the free-energy brigade.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 01:58:12 pm
content: Their numbers seem off, though their mix of units means I cannot be bothered to do an accurate calculation. Metric for science please, or go home.However at least one claim is certified BS: 10 KWh (if that is what they mean by KW/h), 24 hours a day. The incident energy on a 9 m^2 surface, aimed at the Sun, is indeed 10KW. However that is under best possible conditions, meaning Sun at zenith, clean air and no clouds. From the 10KW figure you need to consider mirror inefficiency, solar collector inefficiency, and steam engine plus electric dynamo conversion losses. Then there are thermal losses in the molten salt heat storage battery.Not to mention the fact that the Earth tend to rotate once a day. So without an atmosphere you'd maximally receive 5KW continuously, when averaged over a 24 hour period. Subtract all the combined loss factors, including the imperfect atmospheric transmission during the day as the Earth rotates, and you will have an idea why something like this hasn't been realized ages ago.The basic idea is sound, and large solar collectors similar to this one has been built and operated. But they tend to be huge, to make up for the various losses in the system.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 02:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: from their campaignYet GBI has only a skeleton, empty-link website that was just created in May:http://www.graphiteblueindustries.com/http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.graphiteblueindustries.comYeah, I'm sure these guys are thereal deal.

author: cyr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 02:10:23 pm
content: "Interesting" is one word to describe it, not the first that comes to mind though...I could only manage the first 10% or so of the text, almost none if it made any sense.What the hell is a "cryogenic salt dewar battery" ? I know molten salts can be used to store heat energy, but that is about as far from cryogenic you can get...

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 03:20:02 pm
content: I don't see any point discussing theseFlexible fundingcampaigns which have nothing of value to offer, except for the project creator who gets money. Maybe I should roll my own, just to get some pocket money since this seems really easy way to do it.

author: notzippy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 10:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: Legit-Design on August 07, 2013, 03:20:02 pmWrong, have received perks from 2 FF campaigns on igg. It is not wrong to discuss them here, all questions will be answered.Nz

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 01:47:21 am
content: I take it your campaigns actually had something to offer? Not just taking the money and giving kind words of no value back?Or promising something revolutionary and delivering something that has been operational for several years in a bigger scale.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 01:56:19 am
content: $500 to get a copy of their business plan

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 02:00:01 am
content: They lost me at "rotational energy"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 02:06:46 am
content: Full technical details:http://gbisac.com/files/Technical%20Specs.pdf

author: Vernon
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 05:50:54 am
content: HAHA OK I'll bite... DOH! Watch the video in the link "INTI Prototype Demo Video"long enough and one can't help but get the impression that the guy means well and just wants $$$ to keep at it. Keep watching some more and you get to the "Other Stuff" the water heater, fridge, turbine and fuel cell??? Nothing too ZPE though. So... not so much snake oil as poor composition, but NAH. I'll put my money elsewhere for now

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 06:04:30 am
content: A technical spec sheet filled with 'net compliant buzzwords to lure the unwashed masses, yet giving absolutely zero detailed specifications. Seems their strategy is to hit the general public with a technological wave of shock-and-awe, hoping no-one calls them out on their complete lack of hard details.The video was content free for me, no new information in there. The only thing they seem to have actually made themselves, was the 'steam engine', running on compressed air.Executive summary: They are so full of shit, they ought to plan on collecting their own effluent, using that as fuel for their steam engine. What I cannot decide is whether they are just well meaning amateurs, or a full on scam campaign.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 06:32:52 am
content: Quote from: Vernon on August 08, 2013, 05:50:54 amYes, it seems the majority of people who work on these sorts of projects, and perpetual motion/free energy machines etc do actually believe in what they are doing.But believing in something is not enough to make it work and meet the specs you think it will have.And they often get tricked by basic engineering or physics mistakes they don't notice.And like all good religous people, when the fallacies are pointed out to them, rather than say "oh, yeah, I was mistaken" and drop it, or revise their expectations, it can often give them more belief that they are right.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 06:36:39 am
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on August 08, 2013, 06:04:30 amAnd that's the thing.I was going to do a detailed repose point by point of each claim, but realised it would probably take quite some time to do, and then there is always the "but that bit isn't BS because look here, that technology is real and does work..." claim, and they are not wrong.It can be non-trivial to try and fully "debunk" these types of projects that do fundamentally use a bunch of real working technology.

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 08:48:34 am
content: I knew that video looked familiar in the beginning. Joe Carruth is the owner/creator of that mirror thingy generator.http://hackaday.com/2009/09/09/12kw-solar-collector/article on hackaday... from 2009... good thing internet never forgetshttp://hackedgadgets.com/2009/12/17/solar-mirror-array-steam-engine-drives-12kw-generator/

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2013, 01:14:51 am
content: "Our lead engineer, Dave, is truely Tesla reincarnate. He is unkown today, but "*BOOM**Hypernova's bullshit meter overloads in a shower of sparks*

author: notzippy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2013, 05:29:18 pm
content: Quote from: Hypernova on August 09, 2013, 01:14:51 amLMMFAO

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 12:44:58 pm
content: Quote from: krivx on August 07, 2013, 01:14:25 pmQuotePROJECT REMOVED.their site:http://gbisac.com/still points to nonexisting campaign, so I guess they themselves werent behind this.Why they remove the page and deny it ever existing?I would like someone making a site that archivesallthese crowdfunding things, anyone? It should also make snapshots of the pictures and other media, stored on creators servers.We havegoogle cacheand webarchive, but thats not the same thing

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 01:14:54 pm
content: Quote from: Legit-Design on August 10, 2013, 12:44:58 pmThis is how IGG covers up their failed scams. They disappear as if they never existed.A good IGG scam has to fly under the radar. Then IGG will happily support the scammer and take their share from the scam. But if it gets too obvious IGG simply pretends it never happened.