Suggestion for a second multimeter? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:02:18 am
content: Firstly I'm not looking for a multimeter under a specific price. While price is a consideration, I'm not tied to a budget.For those with more than 2-3 multimeters, which ones do you use the most? I currently have a Fluke 87V and I'm quite happy with it so it's definitely still going to be used.Options:1. Another 87V2. Fluke 2893. Agilent, which one4. Amprobe, which one5. ?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:26:30 am
content: Brymen 869 500,000 count meter

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:34:19 am
content: Gossen MetraHit 26S

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:35:07 am
content: Agilent U1272A

author: Marchello
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:10:18 am
content: Sanwa pc5000a - 500 000 countAgilent U1272Amay be previous Fluke 189? (new or mint condition used) i like it!

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:17:52 am
content: Quote from: Dave on June 12, 2014, 06:35:07 amNot perfect but it seems pretty nice based on Dave's reviewThe on beep and the off position not being all the way to the left will be a bit annoying.The inaccuracy on the capacitor - don't they test these things during design?The smart delta (null) on the ohm is nice that it works on auto range. I just tried it on my Fluke 87V - it only works on manual range.I'll check out those other meters Brymen and Gossen.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:30:54 am
content: I rarely use more than one meter at a time.It helps a lot that my PSUs (HP 6632B and 6634B) include properly useful, accurate voltage and current meters, so I don't need a separate multimeter to measure how much current my project is drawing.My everyday meter is a Fluke 89-IV, which I find clear, responsive and reliable.My other meters are:- A Keithley 2000 bench meter, which offers extremely fast updates, and enough resolution that I can clearly see things like the effect of a power cable heating up, or a battery slowly charging or discharging.- A Fluke 289, which I only ever use when I need to log something.- A Fluke 77-II, which I bought years ago and now lives in the garage- an '830' no-name meter, which lives in my tool box and has served me well since I was a student.

author: Stephen Durr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:53:04 am
content: My primary go-to DMM is my Fluke 88-V and my secondary is an Extech 430. I have had some cases where two meters were handy for when I needed to measure both voltage and current simultaneously. However, I also now have a DP832 precision bench supply which displays voltage, current, and power which means I don't need to reach for the DMM as often just glance at the PSU display which is easy to see.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:54:53 am
content: What are you looking for in terms of specs & features? Are you after more or less meter than the 87V?And do you have anything else besides the 87V?If you're looking for a 50k count model for example (better accuracy and more features vs. your 87V), you'll want to take a look at both the Agilent U125xB series and a Brymen BM86x series IMHO. Brymen would be the best value in this segment based on US pricing, and I suspect so for Australia as well.Not sure what else to point you to though without at least some details.Feels like waiting on lotto numbers on live TV ATM.DT-830. 30M. UT-61E. 287. MM-530A.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 08:01:11 am
content: For a handheld meter then I'll grab whatever is closest. Usually a Fluke 25, which though old are still very accurate, albeit with limited resolution. I've got a few Wavetek meters of various types that have extra functionality. If I need real accuracy then I'll use a Keithley 2015THD.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 08:19:56 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on June 12, 2014, 07:54:53 amNot too sure to be honest as to what specs / features I am looking for. It's a generic tool I guess that I am hoping to use in the years to come to do whatever I happen to need to do.I don't have anything else besides the 87V right now. Not even a $5 cheapie one (which would be a wasted space and money).Getting a second 87V is a good idea since it seems to be a good one overall. However, I think that having a different meter would allow me to quickly glance and know which is which when performing simultaneous measurements.However, I think that having a scope (which I don't at the moment) might probably address that rather than having multiple DMMs. Maybe that's what I should do - get a scope first and then see if I'd still need another DMM.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 08:53:05 am
content: If I were you I'd spend the $5. My '830' was my only meter for years, and it did a perfectly good job within its limits.Think how you use your existing meter. If you're anything like me, 90% of the measurements will be 'is this thing on?', or 'is this really a 10k resistor?', or 'is this a good battery or a dead one'. A no-name cheap meter will answer these questions just as well as a Fluke.(I'll pre-empt the safety sock-puppets by warning you not to shove its probes anywhere you wouldn't shove your fingers.)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 09:05:24 am
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 12, 2014, 08:19:56 amEven the cheapies have their uses (i.e. DT-830), so long as you keep them to low energy circuits. Think PSU panel meters for example (some have built them into a DIY unit for this purpose). Nice to toss one in a car glove box or tool box for emergencies is another particular use for these. That said, I'm not sure this is a good solution (IIRC, you mean to do projects with a daughter) due to the lack of protection circuits in them. If I'm off on the extra safety considerations/concerns (child/adolescent), please let us know.A mix of different meters is not only nice, but a necessity IMHO (i.e. simultaneous V and I measurements). So I'd say two meters at a bare minimum (some will advocate 4). Once you have two, then a scope would take precedence IMHO, and you can add additional meters later if you find they're needed.As per models, you can do a lot with a 6k count meter for example, and the BM257 would be worth a look (nice feature set, good protections). At least one, preferably two, that have temperature capabilities are nice for checking part and heat sink temps. Reasonable C and R range for quick checking parts that are too hard to read (or have no markings). There are certainly others. Uni-T would be another brand (U61E is a 6k count model, and the U71D is a 22k count model IIRC, that's rather well featured).Now assuming only one meter will be purchased in the near future, then a scope would take precedence before another DMM, you might want to get a more featured meter than your 87V (if not more accurate & higher resolution as well). One such example that would give you as much as possible, would be the BM869. They stuffed it with everything they reasonably could, including logging. And like the Fluke or an Agilent, it has proper protections (fully meets it's CAT ratings).

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 09:06:39 am
content: Personally I'd say that one Fluke 87v is enough, for now at least, as it means that you are covered in terms of having a rugged and safe meter.For your second/secondary meter you could spend less than half the price of a fluke and get one which is not necessarily so safe and rugged but at least gets you to the stage where you can measure 2 things at the same time.(Assuming you are not intending to use it for high voltage work, which I think probably is the case since you also mention scopes.)The UT61E is ok value for money in this role, but beware it lacks auto power off.After that, use the money saved to go towards a basic scope. Nothing brings electronics to life more than an oscilloscope.

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 10:16:41 am
content: Get yourself an old Fluke 8020.1000 hours on a single 9V battery.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 12:25:29 pm
content: I'll second the Brymen BM869 but add to that the PC connection kit and you have capabilities you do not have now. Or get the BM525 and get internal logging up 87000 records at up to 20 readings per second. Of course with that kind of data you wold want the PC connection kit again. The Brymen BM257 makes a great smaller meter, and has a PC kit too.If you want just a cheap meter for secondary low energy circuit use, then there are many. Digitek D2843R, UT61E, AM530, UT136B, etc..

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 12:53:14 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on June 12, 2014, 07:13:28 amI have 3 the same for the very reasons described above.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: jucole on June 12, 2014, 12:53:14 pmbut, the 87V is rather expensive for what it offers for electronics. I went with a BM869 for my second handheld DMM after I got my 8842a and 3457a.you could also go with used bench meters: 8842a, 3456a, 3457a, keithley 2000.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:29:45 pm
content: What doesn't an 87V offer for electronics that others do? I got mine for $360-ish from amazon. In Australia it sells for between $600 and $900The BM869 does seem very very nice. about $300 from ebay.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:47:36 pm
content: QuoteI still prefer to use my old Maplin Gold 3.5 digit handheld DMM that I bought new when I was a student in the 1980s. I have a few bench DMMs (including a Fluke 45 and a Keithley 2015) and several cheapie H/H DMMs but the Maplin meter is the one I reach for nearly every time when doing basic everyday stuff. Easy to use, nice big clear display, plus a fast+decent continuity beeperThe one I use the least is the Keithley 2015 simply because I only really need it for making remote/automated measurements via GPIB so it is sat high up on a remote shelf and permanently connected up to my main GPIB system.I'd recommend you consider getting a meter with remote logging as this can come in very useful. I think quite a few Fluke models offer this as well as the Brymen models although I've not used them.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:03:03 pm
content: Can you tell me in what example situations would you use the remote logging feature?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on June 12, 2014, 12:25:29 pmI'll second the suggestion of a BM257. I have both a Fluke 87V and a Brymen BM257, as well as a couple of bench meters. More often than not, for everyday tasks, I reach for the Brymen. Its smaller form factor and large LCD make it very user friendly and it's resolution and accuracy is more than enough for most tasks.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 12, 2014, 06:29:45 pm87v is a fairly old platform. single value display, no logging. still an excellent meter with a proven reputation for stability and durability but there are newer, possibly cheaper choices with more functionality.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 07:40:12 pm
content: My second string multimeter is a Fluke 85 that I got on ebay, with probes and holster, for about $40. I have the CAT III 1000V MAX version (not the same as an 85 III).

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 08:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 12, 2014, 06:29:45 pmOff the top of my head, better accuracy, 50,000 count default, 500,000 count option, dual display, dual temperature, optional PC connection...... That is what it has to offer over the 87V. And oh yes, lower price. In fairness the 87V has a better warranty.

author: benjamin545
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 10:15:21 pm
content: just get one of those old fluke 27/fm models that has been decommissioned from the army. i have 2 of those and i love them. ya, they dont have a backlight or capacitance ranges and what not, but who cares, if you need a back-light, use a room with lights, and if you need some of those fancy ranges, use meter No.1.they have micro and mili amp ranges, the fm versions have true rms, and they are extremely accurate, you could drop it in the toilet and it will still work fine since it is waterproof, and you can use it to hammer your nails back into your fence since it is about the size, weight and durability of a brick. you can often find them on ebay for about $40 USD, one of mine came just the meter, the other came with the entire military kit, a large plastic case, high voltage probe, and test leads, still just $40 USD, they have no meaningful damage or marks, just a little abrasion on the back where a sticker was rubber off, but no cuts into the plastic or anything. its not uncommon to find them for cheap.

author: mzacharias
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 10:54:38 pm
content: My .02 worth: look for a good used Fluke 289. A Superb meter, and the trending and logging functions will add significantly to your current capability with only the 87V.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 11:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 12, 2014, 07:03:03 pmThere's lots of examples but many of them might not be relevant to your needs...However, you can do things like:Measure the AF frequency response of something in very fine steps and automatically record the results on a PC.Or use it to log another piece of test gear. eg I have lots of older test gear here with a DMM recorder output on the back. The DMM output at the rear will be a dc voltage but the test gear could be reading RF power or rms voltage up to many MHz or it could be phase etc etc. eg I have a fairly decent thermocouple temperature meter here I sometimes log using this method and because the rear DMM output drive from the meter is analogue I can see and log down to tiny fractions of 1 degree.My ancient old HP431C RF power meter has a DMM recorder output at the rear and this allows me to use it to measure and record the flatness of a signal generator in fine steps over a huge frequency range. eg see the response plot below where I compare the old 431C against a modern power meter. The whole process is automated with a very simple program in a netbook PC. Logging the HP431C performance wouldn't be possible to do without a DMM with remote control/loggingYou can do other things like measure and log the voltage and current characteristics of something over a long time. eg the drift of a power supply over time.I specifically bought the Keithley 2015 because it provides lots of useful functions via remote control. eg it can act as an accurate AF signal source, a SINAD meter, and can display harmonic distortion and all of these features are best used via remote control via GPIB and a PC. it would be pretty painful and frustrating to try and use these features manually via the front panel.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 11:18:31 pm
content: If you don't have a scope, I'd probably go for a scope before a second meter. Or at least, I'd go for a cheap second meter in order to afford a scope more quickly. Having a scope, any scope, opens up so many opportunities to see things in the time domain. After having a scope, you'll never want to be without a scope again.I doubt I'd go for a second 87V. There are few things that are doable with two 87V units that aren't also doable with an 87V and a 117.But there are LOTS of things you can do with an 87V and a basic DSO that you can't do with two 87V units.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 11:41:06 pm
content: To add my 2 cents worth....Depending on your requirements....I find I am well enough covered with....Avo 8 for up to 3 KVFluke 15B for most stuffVichy VC99 for additional functionality. Temp, hFE etcSeveral other old LCD POS meters that wouldn't matter if they broke or were lost.All cheap enough to acquire.I find I use the Fluke the most.Save your pennies for bigger and better TE that can display waveforms and can save, log, analyse, decode etc.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 11:50:55 pm
content: Another thing to consider is an LCR meter like the DE 5000.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 12:00:17 am
content: Quote from: benjamin545 on June 12, 2014, 10:15:21 pmI'm not sure I'd wanna touch it after that!

author: JuiceKing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 12:25:31 am
content: I've come to like the old 179A and 197 Keithley bench meters. They are compact, cheap, and work very well. I calibrated mine to match a calibrated 6.5-digit bench meter and they have been stable and reliable. The 197 has 4-terminal resistance measurements, high-impedance on the low DC ranges, and a few other genuinely useful features you won't find in the 87V. The 179A has big, bright LEDs. Of course, you have to plug them in, but you can leave them on and not worry about running down batteries. A nice complement to a handheld multimeter.

author: jmoreland79
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 12:30:14 am
content: Curious as to why you want a second meter?Having a backup or spare is never bad, but but another piece of equipment may be more of a benefit currently.What type of projects do you normally work on?

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 09:53:31 am
content: Quote from: jmoreland79 on June 13, 2014, 12:30:14 amI don't have a specific need to have a second meter. I was playing around with some circuits and wanted to measure the voltages on several different points as I adjust a potentiometer, and I thought it would've been nice if I could monitor the V at several points. I think a scope would do the job too.I have enough budget to buy whatever I want - not at all tight on the budget so I can get a scope, a power supply, another meter, etc. without having to save or anything. So it's not a matter of saving the money, not buying a meter so I can buy a scope or other things. What I want to avoid is buying something that I won't use because I don't like it.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 09:57:35 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on June 12, 2014, 11:50:55 pmAn LCR meter is an interesting gadget that I've never had / played with. However, I am quite intrigued with that chinese $20 LCR tester that is being discussed in another thread. It seems to be far more useful to me than a standard LCR meter.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 02:40:22 pm
content: Quote from: jucole on June 12, 2014, 12:53:14 pmI disagree with this reasoning.Any choice of DMM is a compromise between several factors: price, features, performance (accuracy). If you buy another identical one, you are making the same compromise twice. I personally would always choose a different DMM with a different set of compromises. Maybe I don't want to pay as much if the budget is tight, so I trade a little on accuracy for cost. Or maybe DMM#1 has no Capacitance measurement but has True RMS; I could choose DMM#2 to have capacitance but perhaps without True RMS. This will add another capability to the overall "tool kit", where another DMM#1 would not. Having it all would be nice, but that would involve compromise on cost.

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 02:47:55 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on June 13, 2014, 02:40:22 pmI agree with this. I haven't really come across the "perfect" meter for me. There are always trade-offs. Having different DMMs also makes it much easier to tell them apart, e.g. the 87V is measuring X and the Agilent or Brymen is measuring Y.

author: jmoreland79
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 03:06:20 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 13, 2014, 09:53:31 amAh, fair enough. Have you considered a power analyzer? Again, not certain on what with, but the power analyzer is an invaluable tool for me.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 04:10:27 pm
content: Fluke 287 or 289, the main reason is logging. Understand at normal situation, you will not use it often, but once you need it, it will be very handy. It can display the logged chart straight at the meter, no fuss using PC to view it. Although it has capability to transfer it to PC as well.An example last year when I needed to verify whether my newly installed AC was working right, using the standard thermal probe that came with the meter, enabled the logging and left it for 8 hours. Pictures of the DMM screen showing the recorde chart starting from full span 8 hours temperature fluctuation, and zoomed down to 2 minutes resolution, click ->(Fluke 287 screen on the recorded temperature chart for 8 hours)It feels like a hand held, low speed but very high resolution oscilloscope.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 06:18:58 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on June 13, 2014, 02:40:22 pmNot sure - i just bought one I was happy with that had all the features I wanted, then got another 2. So if anything I'm 3 times as happy! but I know this could be easily diagnosed as multimeter weirdness! ;-)

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 07:28:18 pm
content: If you're going to do anything precision related, a bench meter is a must. The 3478A from HP is a popular one, as it is 5.5 digits and quite cheap on eBay, but there are others. If you will not be doing ultra precision measurements, something like the Agilent U1272A or a brymen BM869 would be good.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 01:03:27 am
content: Since you don't have a primary use in mind I would be more inclined to go cheap rather than expensive. Ebay can be a great place to get a good meter on the cheap. I scored a Fluke 187 that was fine after I used some vinegar to clean the battery contacts.The Fluke 25/27/8025 are great. I just saw an 8025B not sell for $21. Heck of a meter for $21. I paid $17 for my last one. I picked up an Amprobe Am-270. It's a great Brymen based meter that I would highly recommend. Amazon had them for $70. Almost as capable as the Fluke 87 but for far less. If you can find a BK Precision 53x0 meter, they are VERY good but quite rare.Fluke 8025:http://www.ebay.com/itm/111374857660?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649Anyway, if you don't have a task in mind I would save the money and go with something inexpensive.