Wow - never knew these even existed! Selective Soldering  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 10:34:54 am
content: Something you don't see everyday.I assume that most consumer products are designed for manufacturing to the point that TH parts are used only as a last resort?Cool piece of equipment. I assume the upside-down waterfall of solder must be filtered and recycled somehow? And I assume there is some flux applied to the board at some point?When is this type used over a wave solder?

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 10:51:19 am
content: Thanks for the video. It's amazing. I've never seen this before, just ware soldering. I guess flux is applied on the board before soldering, maybe tacky flux. Looks like an upside down CNC machine.

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 11:06:36 am
content: QuoteThe answer is in the video you linked. When you have a board with SMD components and THT pads on the same copper layer then,plain reflow is used to solder SMD components and selective soldering is used to solder THT ones.There must be more proper/apt reasons, but this is what makes sense OTOH.:-P

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 01:43:01 pm
content: I guess you never heard of laser soldering (and who knew Subaru makes such awesomeness):Heating up copper and solder is usually hard because of the shiny surfaces ... to be even able to control temperature that way is just ....ps. as to When is this type used over a wave solder?There are situations where you have sensitive parts like leds or sensors that don't handle more than one reflow reliably, and you have to use through hole parts on the other side (perhaps due to mechanical design of the part).. in that case you can't put the board through reflow oven with the leds and parts going through the solder a second time, so selective reflow makes sense.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 02:00:29 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on April 11, 2014, 01:43:01 pm"Subaru Opto Electronics Co. Ltd." is probably not associated with the car company. Subaru is probably a family name (last name), and it seems to me that it is common in Japan for many completely different companies to all end up using the same family name. If your family name is Subaru, you could start up "Subaru Kitchen Appliance Co. Ltd.". On the other hand, there are companies like Hitachi that really are into just about everything.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 06:27:20 pm
content: Very interesting, i always wonder how they keep the solder so clean and oxyd free.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 06:51:33 pm
content: Impressive machines, especially the Jap's ones, very high precision solder delivery and amazing tightly controlled heating at the right spot and razor sharp timing.Not an expert, but am I the only one that see the KISS machine at the 1st post is not even in the same league as the Jap's ones ?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 07:51:02 pm
content: How do they get that column of molten solder to stand up like that especially the ones with two tapers in them.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 08:22:24 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on April 11, 2014, 02:00:29 pmSubaru is not a family name, it is the Japanese name for the Pleiades. (Check out the Subaru car logo sometime.)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 09:30:12 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on April 11, 2014, 07:51:02 pmMetal tube (think fountain).The molten solder is pumped up the inside and flows down the outside, so you only see molten solder when it's running. Solder is jetted above the end of the tube just enough so the tube doesn't impact the leads or contact/solder anything it shouldn't.

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 09:46:28 pm
content: You really have to appreciate the japs for the sheer quality of tools they make! (Mitutoyo anyone!!)The price is another issue though...On the same note, this company is equally interesting.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 09:56:22 pm
content: The laser soldering looks slow, ergo expensive for mass production. But maybe it can run ten times faster then shown.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 10:40:26 pm
content: It depends what you mean by slow.Traditionally, with double sided loads I think you have to move the board through a machine that dumps solder paste on the board, then you put the board through a machine to put drops of glue on it, then you move the board through a chip shooter and then reflow the board.With this laser, you just put the paste, put components and run it through the laser - and potentially you can do a rectangle shape on the laser and heat up several pads at the same time. Who knows, maybe the benefit of not wasting glue and time by dropping glue on boards would matter more than the apparent slowness

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 10:49:33 pm
content: Probably works very well for thermal fuses...Can anyone else see the irony in selling a metal leaded, through hole thermal fuse that opens at 80C and is soldered at 200? Anyone?Tim

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2014, 10:57:15 pm
content: Wouldn't that be spot welded like you weld battery tabs?

author: mictas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 12:40:53 am
content: Huh, I wonder if you can solder with a Bluray or DVD burning laser?

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 12:46:43 am
content: No, you can't. Too little power and the pads and solder are too shiny, it won't work.There's some videos on youtube showing 1.5w ultraviolet lasers melting solder wire... but really messy.

author: mictas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 01:12:07 am
content: Quote from: mariush on April 12, 2014, 12:46:43 amOkay, but re-watching the videos it appears that the red dot in some of them are more a targeting. And not the heat.So any one what to take a guess at what wattage a laser would have to be to pull something like this off?%Update%I mean is, what kind of laser could be installed in this kind of equipment, to qulicky melt solder/flux, as shown in the video.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 01:40:44 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on April 11, 2014, 10:49:33 pmThats called a profit channel in some companies! O0

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 02:23:28 am
content: Quote from: mictas on April 12, 2014, 01:12:07 amThe red dot is the laser temperature reader for feedback, to dynamically adjust the the power of the laser and prevent burning of the pads and so on.One of their "cheaper" (i think) models :http://www.subaru-oe.co.jp/2handa/index.htmluses a 30-35w laser. But note it's not the kind of laser you find in those ebay engraving lasers (25-40w co2) and the optics are way better...

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 02:42:57 am
content: Quote from: mictas on April 12, 2014, 01:12:07 amWikipediasays:Quote from: Wikipedia

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 04:17:23 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on April 11, 2014, 10:49:33 pmI would call it more of a challenge than an irony. I actually have not had any difficulty hand soldering them though... a hemostat between the soldering point and the TCO body is good enough.

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 04:48:14 am
content: I liked to query a planetarium audience about if they had ever seen the Pleides on a car emblem, and get a chuckle from the kids when I mentioned Subaru.

author: Riotpack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 07:14:55 am
content: Hopefully the Subaru soldering process is not as unreliable as their cars

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 07:44:42 am
content: Quote from: mariush on April 11, 2014, 10:40:26 pmI can not imagine that this would be a replacement for reflow soldering.I can only imagine this to be used for heat sensitive parts, parts that would normally be handsoldered, or extremely difficult parts to reach, or parts that have so much mass that reflow will not work 100%. But then I could be wrong.