highpowertech ( China)  made ready to use NiMH comparable to Eneloop  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 01:20:28 am
content: Highpowertech ( China) (Technology Company Limited) presented at the Hong Kong electronics fair 2011 ( hktdc.com),a new product line of : Ready to use NiMH batteries ...... (comparable to Eneloop),AA 2200mAh , AAA 900mAh, and 9V at 200mAh.http://www.highpowertech.com/ProductInfo.aspx?typeid=22&productid=6I have send them an email requesting samples of all of them, for a product review.If those products prove them self's, it would be a great option for the DMM units.More news will come, if they accept my new challenge.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 01:26:12 am
content: Nothing compares to eneloops, though some have come close.One of the strongest features of eneloops is durability and robustness. There are many other batteries that seem to perform better when brand new, but few that have the staying power to keep performing the same after months of use and many recharge cycles.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 01:36:56 am
content: Well if I get my chance from the highpowertech, I would be able to test a new product that looks promising on the data sheet.This is the all point, an in-depth test of a new product.So far the Chinese companies are avoiding me.But I can not predict anything this time.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 04:55:23 am
content: The expectations of the European bankers are to let us live that much.I will agree that batteries is not an ordinary item for review, but I have all those specialized chargers and the ANSMANN digital battery tester,and three data logging capable DMM.Yes sir, I am ready for war !! the battery testing its just a warm up exercise.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 05:13:56 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 27, 2011, 04:37:10 amand to confirm it is really good, for me i have to expand the time to 5 years of still good performance, 80% capacity? and China items? i've never heard they break world record, only good for money "short term" stuffs.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2011, 12:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 27, 2011, 05:13:56 amThat's true, but speaking about a new product of 2011, that sold with the name of the true manufacturer on it,gave me the hope that it worth's to be tested.By the way, what warranty we got from the Sanyo about the Eneloop product ? and we offered our trust and money before 20 months back ?The ready to use NiMH .... it is a fresh technology and still untested.Even so I like to believe that the wider competition would help the prices to drop.I have next to me two Sanyo 2700mAh NiMH damaged in just a year time, and there is no warranty plan about them!!I got eight of those about a year, and the two of them started to drop down from the 80% of charge in to 20% or less in just few minutes of use.I had notified the seller asking for any warranty plan, he said I will ask Sanyo, and never came back to me.The Ansmann products haves two years warranty and it worked !! I got replacement for two damaged AAA , with out even sending the damaged ones back !!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 11:45:10 am
content: Given they were the first, they have 6+ years running history. However, there are other various labels, both PRC and Taiwan, sold in the US with good ~ 1 year performance and 50% the cost. It will be a gamble, but if you check google for reviews on LSD batteries, they are electrically close to eneloop in performance.http://www.stefanv.com/electronics/table.cgi?file=low_self_discharge.html&title=Low%20Self-Discharge%20AA%20Battery%20Test%20Results&title2=Low%20Self-Discharge%20AAA%20Battery%20Test%20ResultsI currently have 30 cells of tenergy, 20 of eneloop. The 9V tenergy are superb, and I run them in DMM and they are now over 4 months still registering full. In the power hungry 1252a DMM, the regular 9V NiMH last about 2 weeks of heavy usage and monthly for light use. With tenergy, I had to top it off only 1 in 4 months. The reviews of the 9v are on eevblog as well as the stefanv and amazon.com websites.Quote from: IanB on October 27, 2011, 01:26:12 am

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 01:18:39 pm
content: About Highpowertech the clock is still ticking about expecting an reply from them .If they do not feel confident about their cells, probably they will ignore my request.From the other hand some Chinese makers target exclusively the mainland of China, and some others are making misleading websites about their own company size.I guess that time will tell, but the time is running low, If I will not get any response until 6 of November I will just forget about it.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 02:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 28, 2011, 01:18:39 pmMaybe, but other possibility is, have you ever thought of that probably they are not interested to serve a freebie request instead ?You should start your own web site on reviewing stuff and building up "reputation" if you're serious, afraid they think you just another free rider passing by.Imo hanging around this forum and then stalking every manufacturers for sample review when every time there is a new released product is just not enough, not sure though, hopefully I'm wrong.

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 02:18:22 pm
content: IMO, the performance and life of NiMH batteries has as much to do with the charging scheme, as with the battery itself. Of course you need the best batteries, but what's the best charging system and the best procedure/interval/limits to get the most life out of them? I'd love to see a charging test as much as a battery test. My experience with NiMH batteries is that I always go back to buying alkalines or using nasty old NiCads.

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 02:58:00 pm
content: I have a pool of around 80+ NiCd/NiMh batteries that I'm taking care of, both at work and at home.Since I got my Maha C9000 charger, I'm also keeping a spreadsheet containing a log of the available capacity per battery (as reported by the Break-In mode of the charger which follows the IEC standard for determining the available capacity).Some of the findings from this activity are as follows:- 12 Eneloop (AA and AAA) cells are at or exceeding (105%) the typical capacity- Around 30+ Sanyo NiCd 700 mAh cells that have around 8years are still at 80-85% capacity. These are the batteries used by the DECT Siemens phones used at work- 12 cheap Lenmar LSD cells are performing very well for now (100% capacity), but they are fairly new- Very old (9years?) GP NiMh batteries are still quite OK: at around 75% capacity, but it looks like they developed a rather high internal resistance- NiCd/NiMh rechargeable batteries delivered with solar lights that you can buy very cheaply these days are a joke: even new cells are at somewhat 75% of the rated capacity (which is very low btw. Ex: 600 mAh for an AA cell)- Oldest NiCd batteries are some cells that I've found in emergency light units. They are rated for 700 mAh and still keep about 56% capacity. No idea about the age though (20+ years I would hazard)- Only definitive loss is a rather nice Sanyo HR-3U 1600mAh cell that developed internal shorts (a possible failure mode with NiMh cells). I forgot two cells in a CD MP3 player somewhere during 2003 and only found them recently. The cells were totally discharged and stayed like this for a long time. One of the cells recovered nicely (80% capacity) but its sister was dead. I have tried to zap the internal shorts with high voltage pulses. It sort of worked because the battery was able to keep a charge only for a short period (hours).Cheers,Dan

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 03:30:10 pm
content: Hi Dan,I do the same as you, and use the Maha C9000. One main advantage the Maha has over other chargers is the IEC standard capacity test, for those unfamiliar with it, it takes at least 36 hours to complete each test.I've had similar luck with NiMH cells now going 7 years on the oldest, all in use. They my older NiMH were not optimally charged and those that survived are as low as 50% capacity, but the devices I use them on have such low consumption, I get 1 mo of use out of it [ shavers, electric toothbrushes etc.,]. Those that were speed charged on a 1 hour charger didn't make it past 100 charge cycles.I've also resurrected a set of 4 AA cells over 10 years old found in an forgotten bag, and recovered about 50% of its mAH capacity. However, the self discharge rates were tremendous, about 2 days to fully discharge so they were eventually discarded, but it demonstrates that the Maha restoration charge-discharge cycles procedures work.The calendar life of NiMH chemistry is not well studied, but if you find my old threads, Cobasys claims the chemistry, if charged and discharged optimally, can exceed 10 years easily, they claim up to 30 years. I had a brief archived discussion with a Varta battery engineer on element14.com and he suggests Varta NiMH can obtain 10 years, but again, no papers to make solid reference.Per Varta, they claim the cells are being used for backup power for an auto based cellphone emergency system installed in cars, and are designed for a minimum of 5 year life.Toyota Prius first generation have packs of NiMH still going strong at 10+ years old, and is widely reported particularly in regards to the resale of older Priuses.These anecdotes suggest that the calendar life of NiMH can easily exceed standard LiPo and ion, if charged and discharged optimally. Its a key characteristic in design when deciding to use NiMH or Li chemistry. LiPo has a calendar life of under 4 years, with a continuous decline in mAH regardless of charge cycle, but it provides far high capacity for weight. LiFeP04 may fix that, but Chinese label LiP04 cost about $4-5, about the same as 2 eneloops, but in the right application the NiMH will last 3-7x longer.Quote from: Balaur on October 28, 2011, 02:58:00 pm

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 03:37:56 pm
content: I've had the same issue, but I found C9000 Maha charger to be close to ideal. Cells I charge with it don't seem to be 'aging' in terms of reduce mAH capacity since I restored them over 1 year ago.When charging, cells don't exceed 45C at the C 0.5 rate, and often are far cooler, 35C is typical, if on your ambient room temp < 77F at the time of the charge.http://www.amazon.com/Maha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer/product-reviews/B000NLUSLM/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_next_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=2A fairly technical review:http://www.epinions.com/review/Maha_Powerex_MH_C9000_WizardOne_Charger_Analyzer_for_4_AA_AAA_epi/content_512329485956Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on October 28, 2011, 02:18:22 pm

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2011, 06:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on October 28, 2011, 03:30:10 pmActually, it was one of your old comments that hinted me on the MAHA charger. Best battery-related acquisition so far. Thank you very much for the excellent suggestion, much appreciated.Cheers,Dan

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2011, 01:23:17 am
content: Quoteworth a picture!the picture is showing my old batteries after been commisioned to "junkyard dept" 3-4 years ago, it a Sony immitation NiMH, taken back to "R&D dept" for re-evaluation purpose, 2300mAH speced, 500mAH left. yes thanx to whoever mentioning C9000 and eneloop in this forum. i'm a lucky photographer to be strayed in EE forum. its been rectifying my old batts 24/7 after arrival, some got better, some unable to be resurrected. opening out-of-box almost give me heart attack by the size of it, at least doubled the size of normal charger. and it says on-the-box, "Charger from the Future", maybe Dr. Brown designed this stuff.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2011, 02:00:12 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 29, 2011, 01:23:17 amA marriage made in heaven.The C9000 is a wonderful device to be sure. And eneloops have permanently consigned alkaline batteries to history.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2011, 01:42:32 pm
content: I have evidence that the Sanyo chargers have very different characteristics in their charging curve,and that all the others chargers just fall close to it.But I do not have proofs yet.And my plan is to get them..