EEVblog 1528 - R&S MXO4 12bit Oscilloscope Unboxing and Experiments - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 10:43:11 pm
content: Unboxing, first impression, and some experiments with the new Rohde & Schwarz MXO4 12bit oscilloscope.Is the new MXO-EP ASIC faster than the Keysight Megazoom IV ASIC?00:00 - Unboxing the MXO422:26 - Keysight DSOX3000 comparison25:33 - Horizontal measurement update rate bug28:23 - The Spectrum Analyser is amazing!32:18 - FFT resolution35:07 - Waveform Update Rate Shootout with Keysight37:15 - Logic Analyser38:55 - Lockup! And remote firmware updating45:31 - 18 bit HD Mode!47:25 - 16bit Rigol HD mode comparison49:34 - Colour graded displays52:12 - Window Docking53:52 - Siglent SDS2354X HD noise comparison

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 03:00:30 am
content: I think I know what my next scope will be....Now, just need to find a project to justify the upgrade from my old 500MHz Tektronix, though since my Tek has 4 1.5Ghz low cap amplified jfet probes, I will need at least the same from R&S.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 03:25:22 am
content: it would be cool to see it do XY mode, does it support more than one XY display at a time?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 08:36:43 am
content: Quote from: Anthocyanina on February 14, 2023, 03:25:22 amThat would be ineresting, does any 4CH scope do that?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 09:19:20 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2023, 08:36:43 amSome do. I think some of the R&S can.. You might even try on RTB2000.As a side note, people ask why Picoscopes... You can haveanynumber of X-Y displays and use math channels for source...

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 09:28:55 am
content: Thanks for the video. The 18 bit resolution looks nice!When you set "probe bandwidth" does it actually turn on a low-pass filter or just changes the display (like changing probe attenuation)?For FFT the confusing part is that it's using much longer time interval than what is displayed on the screen. That is the only way one can get a fine frequency resolution with just 4 periods on the screen.Could you save and post some raw data with 50 ohm shorted input on 1 mV/div and 1 V/div scales?Also would be interesting to see the waveform update rate with waveform averaging turned on, that would be a nice application of fast update (if it is fast) and low noise.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 10:37:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2023, 08:36:43 amdon't know about bench scopes that do, but the analog discovery and all other digilent scopes do with the waveforms software, you can even have XY with math channels. I got curious about it on this scope because of it's very large display and how you can rearrange the channels to the sides and on top of each other.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 04:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on February 14, 2023, 09:28:55 amYes, in the video, the FFT is clearly using a window that is 10-100x larger than the screen (and more than the claimed 4 kpts of memory as well). Naturally that also increases the chance that the glitch fall in this window and show up in the spectrum. Having the spectrum analysis tool mostly independent from the time-domain view adds a lot of flexibility but may also be confusing at first. There appears to be a "Gate" sub-menu, so I am assuming you can still do time-domain correlated analysis as well.One somewhat disappointing aspect is the apparent lack of analysis features. This oscilloscope has huge memory but once you have filled it, there doesn't seem to be much that you can do with it. Things like trigger event and outlier search, measurement tracks, anything that could help you find regions of interest without trying to scroll through 800 Mpts manually. Can you at least search the protocol decodes after the fact (using the filter tab I guess)?

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 05:00:56 pm
content: You should try attaching an antenna directly onto one of the oscilloscope channels and viewing the spectrum. Maybe something in the FM Radio Broadcast Band/Amateur Radio Band given the 1.5 GHz bandwidth of the scope.Here is a RTO2044 (4 GHz bandwidth) with a passive 2.4 GHz antenna attached directly to channel 3. FFT covers the 2 - 3 GHz.

author: CRTbrain
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 05:19:39 pm
content: I got my MXO4 scope up to 4.5 Mwfs/s update rate directly after preset without trying. On Dave's video, I'm pretty sure Dave's input signal doesn't offer enough trigger events per second for it to have faster update rate. Use a 50-100MHz sine wave and it does the advertised 4.5 Mwfms/s perfectly. MXO4 seems to be fastest @ 20 ns/div.I've never seen a scope this fast....feels like an analog scope. The 21 ps trigger re-arm time might even be comparable to what it used to take analog scopes to do a beam deflection.

author: CRTbrain
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 05:31:05 pm
content: I connected my MXO4 with a cheap antennae. I've never seen spectrum view like this on a scope. Pretty cool. I could get RBW down to 1 kHz without any problem. I also put the scope in "Free Run" where it doesn't look for a time domain trigger event. This is a feature I havent' seen on non-R&S scopes, and it works really well for making good freq domain viewing." alt="" class="bbc_img" />

author: CRTbrain
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 05:36:13 pm
content: I don't think other scope vendors have "Free Run" trigger mode. It's great for fast update rate for freq domain measurements, and/or power integrity when a trigger isn't relevant. @ 20nS/ timebase, I get in excess of 4.5 M waveform/sec with free run trigger.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 06:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: CRTbrain on February 14, 2023, 05:19:39 pmI was about to make the same comment - I can easily get 4.5 Mwfms/sec with default settings if I use an input signal with sufficient trigger events.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 07:25:55 pm
content: Dave claim is it slows down when he used measurements ..Like frequency for instance..

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 08:37:55 pm
content: Why do they make it so you have to use channel 1+3 for full sample rate, why not 1+2?Surely it's just a software thing.I'd make it so channel 3 shares ADC with channel 2 and channel 1 with channel 4.That way channel 1 will stay full rate right up until you turn on all four channels.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 09:06:34 pm
content: Video has some very good points about the UI. The new Rigol sets the standard for things like channel setup, measurements and statistics.R&S's FFT labels, though?Genius.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 09:21:55 pm
content: They usually need the same electric signal lenght from the input to the ADC. Less distance and not having the traces to cross each other is another reason for using one ADC for 2 adjacent channels and not 1 and 4.An quite a lot of cases 2 or less channels are used. So 2 ADC and sharing for 2 channels each is usually not a problem.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 11:09:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 14, 2023, 08:37:55 pmIt's a layout thing. One ADC handles two channels. If you wanted one ADC to handle channels 1+3 you'd have to swap the traces. Repeat for 2/4 and then you have a conflict over length matching for all 4 channels as well.It's possible, but it's just messy.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 11:10:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 14, 2023, 08:37:55 pmSince they might have 2 sampling IC, each one doing 2 channels, or 1 IC with 2 identical copies, the quality of PCB layout from the input channels to the sampling ICs would be compromised.Also, if you buy a 2 channel version of the scope which will have 1 sampling IC, only the first 2 inputs will be populated making them adjacent on the scope's chassis and the printed channels numbers and software reference #1 and #2. Imagine buying a 2 channel scope whose onscreen controls only enables channels 1 & 3.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 11:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on February 14, 2023, 06:21:55 pmNope, 2.31Mwfm/s with 100MHz sine wave and auto memory.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 11:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on February 14, 2023, 09:28:55 amIt would use a digital low pass filter.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 11:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 14, 2023, 09:19:20 amIt's a just software thing, so any 4CH digital scope could do it if they added that feature.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 11:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 14, 2023, 11:10:04 pmMaybe, maybe not. These are PCBs with multiple layers.Quote from: BrianHG on February 14, 2023, 11:10:04 pmYou'd use the "second" ADC and just have connectors 2+3 on the front. 1 and 4 would be removed.Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2023, 11:09:28 pmI guess...

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 12:44:44 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 14, 2023, 11:29:27 pmOnce you install the second ADC, you might as well add the front end and have 4 channels.

author: CRTbrain
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:18:14 am
content: The fastest update rate appears to be at about 20 ns/div. Your image show faster a faster timebase. Set to 20 ns/div and you should get about 4.5M wfms/s. Not sure if setting the waveform colors to temperature impacts update rate. it may take more processing for this. I used the simple yellow (requires factory default/preset) to change the color back to default.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 01:30:30 am
content: Quote from: CRTbrain on February 15, 2023, 01:18:14 amYep, 4.5M on 20ns/div only. All other above and below are lower.QuoteNope, same.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 10:51:33 pm
content: It's a seriously cool oscilloscope, I don't see anything that I didn't like.I'm off to write an email to my boss why the current scope isn't good enoughFat chance.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 12:59:55 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 15, 2023, 10:51:33 pmBetcha they have an infinite rental budget though. Capex is always a hard no.

author: CRTbrain
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2023, 06:49:32 pm
content: Their overall serial bus coverage is a bit sparse at the moment. Hoping this fills out...for engineers who need to work across a wide verity of buses.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 03:03:10 pm
content: The MXO 4 series is tempting because of its performance, but I am currently looking for a DSO which can display the FFT magnitude and phase of a differentiated waveform for impulse response testing, and the MXO4 can do neither according to its documentation. Older LeCroy and Tektronix DSOs support this and I may end up going with one of them.