Google Pay CARD CONFUSION - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 12:30:45 am
content: I am trying to pay for something where a merchant has stopped using Paypal but provided other choices.I saw Google pay and was trying to add my debit card.I was astounded to come across this:There are TWO months on there, one for "Start date" and the other for "expiry date" and I think it is plain stupid not to specify which one they are looking for or maybe things have changed and I am the one who is stupid and they expect me to know which one. What I don't want to do is put incorrect information in there and have a block put on my card and account.When I paid for things by card I never really had this problem before where it was clear what they were asking for. I remember some of them want both, one or the other before the numbers on the back.There was only one occasion and that was from a very long time ago. In 2004 I brought 1GB of PC3200 Corsair XMS memory from a place called overclockers.co.uk. As I was trying to pay for it there was a requirement to put in an "issue number" but I didn't have such a number on my bank details or on the card and it failed.So I called the bank and I was told to put 0's in there and it worked.I should have posted a picture of what I mean butthanks to to Monek linked from his post:I have edited the title "Google Pay STUPIDITY" to "Google Pay CARD CONFUSION"as I have now discovered that card details are not all standardized as I thought they were and are different by country.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 12:41:07 am
content: If they don't specify they're only looking for the expiry date.I guess you don't use cards much.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 12:44:38 am
content: No, not as much as i use to. It is Paypal that I mainly use.I did use to with companies credit/debit cards when I worked at a few places before 4 years ago where we placed orders all day for things like building materials either on websites or on the phone.It seems to have worked thanks.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 12:52:58 am
content: Err... ok. I have never, not even once, seen any credit/debit card payment form ask for any other date than expiry.In fact, I have never, not even once, seen any credit/debit, or even EFTPOS card that has a "start date" printed on it (or a start date at all other than the date on which you activate said card).It really doesn't take much life experience to deduce that the date they are asking for is the same date as literally every other credit/debit card payment form you have likely ever seen asks for, namely, the expiry date.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 01:01:41 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 01, 2022, 12:52:58 amYou're welcome.And yes, I could have used a stock image, but this way there's the potential funny of "YOU POSTED A PHOTO OF YOUR CARD ARE YOU MAD?!".

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 01:04:23 am
content: I guess I can cross that off my never-seen list then. None of my NZ issued cards have ever had them that I remember, in the last 25-30 years.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 01:21:05 am
content: I am pretty sure I remember quite a few which were on the phone to like suppliers and wholesalers for building materials (not with my debit card for those it was a company) where some wanted the either the valid/start date or both then the CVC number.I remember on some payment checkouts just when entering the numbers where there were these little diagrams of the card highlighting what they were looking for and I see Google did this but only for the CVC but not which month.I don't understand it myself as to why different merchants or wholesalers in the past would request either, start or expiry or both so and I never bothered to question it and I found it straight forwardso please forgive me.Quote from: sleemanj on October 01, 2022, 12:52:58 amSo they do have cards with no start date on them a bit like when I was asked for an "issue number" about 20 years ago where there was nothing in the bank details or card.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 02:08:18 am
content: Sleemanj, I noticed from your country icon that you are from New Zealand.I just searched for New Zealand credit cards and I see them with only an expiry date:There is one I found there that shows a start and end date:https://www.pngwing.com/en/free-png-sjnagAustralia and New Zealand Banking Group Credit card Debit card Visa, personal card, logo, online Banking, business pngAn American Express operating in New Zealand that only showsmember since:I thought they were pretty standardized.

author: Fredderic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 02:57:55 am
content: Of some interest, I remember seeing Valid From on some of my cards… But when I checked just now, theyallonly have expiry date (including my ANZ credit card).I can't remember when, but I'm fairly certain that was a change that took place sometime in the last two decades. I do also have a vague feeling that I used to see credit card entry forms that would sometimes change those extra fields and helper images based on the bank your card number indicated — or more often, either have them on a separate page, or only add them to the form after it knows which bank's template to add on.So I am wondering if this may be a general trend towards only having the expiry date. It was long enough ago that I'm having trouble remembering and could have some details off, but I think my ANZ card was the most recent to go that way, and I seem to vaguely recall an information sheet that came with the replacement card, explaining why they were reducing the information shown on the card for privacy reasons; they also stopped showing your card numbers on the front, stopped doing the raised type thing, and moved to it simply being printed all on the back — which I actually think is a very good idea.Selecting the type of card used to be a very common distinct first step in the process, and I'd figured it had stopped simply because they were extracting the information from the card number rather than relying on their customers to have a clue. But I am not wondering if this is a general trend everywhere — not just in the couple cards I happen to have personally — and if so, how far along it's gotten. I imagine the people making the credit card forms are appreciative of only needing to ask for one number, and that date would pretty universally be the expiry date, or, whatever date is available in the absence thereof.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 06:00:40 am
content: This is the first time I've ever seen or heard of a credit card with a start date. Every single credit card ordering system I've ever used since getting my first credit card ~25 years ago has asked for the expiration date. I can understand why they didn't bother to specify, I wouldn't have either, I'd just assume that everyone knows the expiration date is needed to run a transaction.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 06:51:28 am
content: Just changed the title to something more appropriate.I shouldn't have called it "Google Pay Stupidity".Sorry about that.If they are designing these forms in countries that don't have start dates on payment cards for other countries that do then I see it's not their fault as how are they suppose to know.I thought it was standardized but now I see it is not. I did not know it was common knowledge to assume "expiry date" if not specified.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 07:06:00 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 01, 2022, 06:00:40 amMy vague understanding of this was, i think for here at least with Mastercard, it was around that time they started sending the new card through the mail instead requiring you to pick it up from the bank.The problem from the bank's perspective is that you can't have two valid cards (with the same name and number) running at the same time for obvious reasons. And it might have had something to do with the chip on the card.Eventually the tech caught up and depending on the bank you initalize the new card somehow or the bank does it automagicly upon first purchase with it.edit:Quote from: james_s on October 01, 2022, 06:00:40 amI thought that the expiry date was used as a hacky way to confirm the card number was valid.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 02:24:40 pm
content: Farnell website today:And.. the Chase UK debit card is quite good: has no details at all, other than your name. You set it all in the app, so you can make it point to whatever account you want to use at the time. Never expires

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 11:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 01, 2022, 02:24:40 pmThe Valid From field doesn't have the asterisk and is not required to complete the form.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 12:07:03 am
content: Well spottedIt's changed recently, don't know why, but the 'from' date used to be required for all my cards. I think they were all Visa, and perhaps MasterCard (which everyone seems to be migrating to) didn't use it.I think Farnell just couldn't be arsed to change their forms, or perhaps they use a form suitable for everything and then just don't require particular fields on a per-card basis.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 01:05:00 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 01, 2022, 07:06:00 amI don't know what it's used for, I just know it's needed to make a transaction. Card number, name on card, expiration date and starting around 10-15 years ago CCV which is a separate 3 digit number on the back.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 05:03:14 am
content: There is no such thing in EMV transaction as valid from date as far as i remember, only the expiry date. While i never seen it printed on a card in north america, i guess banks can use it for additional custom validation. Here cards become valid from the moment you first use them.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 05:15:54 am
content: My card has both Valid From and Expires on Dates.But I've never seen a website that asks for the Valid From date yet. And it wouldn't make sense why they would want it.They just want to know it's not expired.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 10:00:56 am
content: Surely they wouldn't use the expired date to figure out if it's expired - the bank will refuse it if so. You can't cheat by using a later date!So if the expired date is superfluous for checking purposes, the valid from date would be too. Both are presumably there for the end user, so he know his card is useful (or not). I wonder if the requirement to enter one or both on a form is just a water muddying exercise, of adding stuff that doesn't really matter just to make itapparentlymore complicated to fake.Oh, thinking back, perhaps the expired date (and the valid from date) were originally important to the vendor when using the imprint tool, before online anything took over. There would be no means of validating that the card is, ah, valid other than by what's printed on it.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 01:15:03 pm
content: The expiry date is a means of proving the card is in your hands - the valid from date is another means. It's optional because not all cards have it, and as such most places don't collect it.They also collect and check phone numbers, billing address, and other details - not all are strictly required but an incorrect entry can be used to deny a transaction.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 01:37:15 pm
content: ok

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2022, 01:49:12 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 02, 2022, 10:00:56 amNo it is not. Expiry date is mandatory for credit cards and used as input into the cryptographic algorithm that calculates encrypted message that is sent to the bank for verification.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 02:46:37 am
content: https://1password.community/discussion/81387/credit-card-valid-from-dateCredit card valid from dateQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo it It looks like this is a UK thing.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 01:03:53 pm
content: Not just UK. NZ cards have both dates, but i've never seen anyone ask for the valid from date.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2022, 01:07:13 pm
content: Let's check the cards in my pocket:Swedish MC: end date onlySwedish Visa: end date only - lunch benefit, employer issued? Citi MC: both dates - employer issuedItalian Maestro: end date onlyItalian Visa: both dates

author: armandopoolheco19
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 01:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on October 01, 2022, 12:30:45 amThey usually only ask for the expiry date to be written down, to make sure you are not using an expired card. But I agree that this is a mess, but I actually meant that for the first time I see that the card has the date it was issued. Amazing! Besides that I can't help but notice that there are already plenty of sources that help with this, like [spam link removed] I use this one because here are plenty of payment methods, like google pay, here this is made very comfortable and it is made very clear what and how.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2023, 12:23:22 am
content: Quote from: Psi on October 03, 2022, 01:03:53 pmSome Australian cards have a valid from date, but they are uncommon. That date really has no bearing outside of "When can I use my card?".Typically with most banks here, once you receive your renewal card, it's active straight away (or you have to manually activate it using your banking app/website). Once you start using the new card, the old card becomes invalid automatically.

author: creatoranahilk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 09:41:51 am
content: Quote from: armandopoolheco19 on April 12, 2023, 01:13:41 pmI agree that this is a mess