Electronics term project facepalm - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 10:45:04 pm
content: Halfway through our junior years, this is the sort of thing they expect us to choose from for a term project in Electronics:1. Temperature control. Not even hysteretic, let alone P-I, just a basic comparator. And we are required to use an ADC and binary comparator, because why the freaking hell not? 74LS85 is still relevant, right guys?2. Dual slope ADC. OK, this one's not a bad idea, IMHO.3. Transistor curve tracer. No base step, so pretty much just an oscillator with X and Y outputs.4. "Amplitude modulator". Square wave only. Wheeeee! Damn, I already made one of these in class as a bodged diode-resistor AND gate out of lack of breadboard space for a 7408... would have worked for an analog input with minimal change.5. PWM motor speed controller. We've already done this in lab, but open-loop, so pretty much just one or two more op amps to close the loop.6. Low battery level indicator. Yep, you read that right. (Extra credit for displaying three levels, because copy and paste, hell yeah!)These arelabs, not term projects. And mostly with the complexity we saw at the beginning of the term... Most of us could do #1, #3, and #6 in one lab session, #4 and #5 with some extra brainstorming time, and #2 in two or three lab sessions.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:03:44 pm
content: I'm guessing the class is a mix of people with self taught electronic knowledge and others who've never even seen a transistor?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:13:37 pm
content: As usual, yeah, but the thing is - these aren't any more challenging than what we've done in lab! Wouldn't you expect the term project, which lasts multiple weeks, to at least require combining what we've learned? I mean, #6 is just a freaking comparator for Christ's sake, and #1shouldbe.... (We built an ADC from scratch in the last lab, so really it's just that lab + binary comparator.) #3's just an oscillator, we've done those. #5's just a comparator plus Lab 5 (IIRC). There's no sense of it being a "final project" at all, most of these could have been labs.(Also, we're allowed to work in groups of up to four, so that pretty much "takes care of" - as much as they ever do - the ones who don't know a transistor from a transmission.)

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:46:04 pm
content: Wow, Im still just a highschool student and I have ideas for all but numbers 2 and 4... could you send in your schematics for those btw?But yeah... This makes me REALLY excited for university. What are you guys learning that takes up your time? One or two years of independent study is more than enough to do anything on that list. How much math do you get? How helpful?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:49:47 pm
content: Quote from: smashedProton on November 16, 2013, 11:46:04 pm#4 is simpler than it looks. Square wave input only, remember - that's just a switch: carrier on, carrier off.QuoteThe same things, over and over again. Next week's lab is biasing a common emitter amplifier. I've already been taught what I need to know to do that in at least two other classes (Circuits and Semiconductor Devices).QuoteLots.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2013, 11:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: smashedProton on November 16, 2013, 11:46:04 pmNot all colleges are the same. Ideally you would be stretched more and be doing harder stuff than this...

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:00:16 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 16, 2013, 11:49:47 pmThat reminds me of high school... If the magic paper is what they want.... that's what I'm going to have to give them.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:05:31 am
content: Do all six of them. Then annoy your teachers even more by coming back and asking for even more because you ran out of projects.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:11:28 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on November 17, 2013, 12:05:31 amHa... I annoy them enough as it isTurns out it irritates them a bit when you tell them about the mistakes in the lab (and offer a solution) rather than struggling with it for an hour and blaming the problem on your own stupidity.Besides, I'd rather spend the time doing something a bit more enriching.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:32:17 am
content: Why not build a temperature regulated transistor curve tracer with low level battery indicator which uses a dual slope ADC to convert the values to an amplitude modulated signal driving a plotter with a PWM speed controlled motor?Almost as pointless as the individual projects.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:41:24 am
content: The motor speed control can get really involved if you use something other than a brush DC motor.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:42:44 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 17, 2013, 12:41:24 amSure, and the ADC can get really involved if you want seven and a half digits...We, however, are building a 4-bit (yes, you read correctly - or not, oops - edited 'digit' to 'bit') ADC, or a controller for two DC motors.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 01:15:34 am
content: What about pick something and then optimize for low cost?For temperature control, you could call a comparator a "one bit ADC" along with a simple logic circuit (if needed) to enforce minimum on/off times. You'll be surprised how well that works for most applications.

author: VintageTekFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 02:07:05 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 17, 2013, 12:32:17 am

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 02:15:14 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 17, 2013, 01:15:34 amOK, then how about I build it with my lab kit? There must be enough fakes in there to reduce the price to a negative value...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 03:57:08 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 16, 2013, 10:45:04 pmGot it. You are very smart.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 03:57:47 am
content: Huh?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 04:05:17 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 17, 2013, 03:57:47 am

author: tsmith35
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 06:16:50 am
content: Quote from: smashedProton on November 17, 2013, 12:00:16 am"If money is all that you love, then that's what you'll receive."

author: Abstr7ct
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 06:28:24 am
content: So this is some kind of a rant? If you find these projects very basic, it would be because you've been self-teaching and tinkering in the world of electronics for a while. Other students, who haven't been doing the same thing, would look at these projects in a different way than you.You may have been lucky to expose yourselves to enough electronics before university, but remember that they're also unlucky people. I, as an example, was unlucky. My eyes weren't opened to the world of hobby electronics until my first year in electrical engineering and that was two years ago. It depends on where and how you lived your pre-university life.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 06:37:12 am
content: It isn't that they are basic. We don't do our labs alone - I'm quite aware where the other students stand. It's that they aresimpler than the labs. We have three or four weeks to do less than what we normally do in one!This isn't an "I'm smart and they're all morons" thing. The vast majority of my classmates agree, these are almost insultingly stupid. None of us are morons. I might be the only asshole miserable enough to bitch about it - but trust me, I'm not sitting here stroking my ego while they all struggle in the breadboard mines.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 08:33:37 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 17, 2013, 12:32:17 amDamn! You stole my idea. I was going to write that all out but I was on my phone and couldn't read his post and see mine at the same time.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 08:35:27 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on November 17, 2013, 12:32:17 amPointless yeah, but also fun to build due to the weirdness of it

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 08:55:24 am
content: Quote from: Psi on November 17, 2013, 08:35:27 amExactly, I'm on project 3 at the moment. Working my way down the list.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 08:59:30 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 17, 2013, 06:37:12 amI turned it into that, sorry. I have been having confidence issues recently. The forum isn't the place for my bullshit.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 12:16:02 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 16, 2013, 10:45:04 pmIt's actually not that easy to do this accurately for lion batts... hence all the ASICs available. Building a charge integrator out of discretes (complete with I2C interface?) might be an interesting project.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 01:10:24 pm
content: Just pick one and do it, and then spend the rest of your time building something more interesting if you want to learn more advanced topics.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 02:03:48 pm
content: Use your imagination to take one of the simple projects and go over the top with it. Way back when, at ITT Technical Institute, our first quarter project was to build a siren circuit with a 555 timer. Everyone did theirs on a breadboard. I taught myself to etch PCBs and used a 556 timer to add flashing lights and modified the circuit to make the British 2 tone siren sound. I packaged it into a 1/32 scale Ohio State Police car model with LEDs for the roof lights, headlights and taillights. Yes, I know the British siren doesn't go with the American police car, but the project impressed the class and the teacher for a perfect score. Elegant solutions to simple projects attract attention.Tom, NW0LF

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2013, 06:47:24 pm
content: screaming goat in response to Huh? antelopelolthe Lamb agrees

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 05:04:58 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 17, 2013, 06:37:12 amI'm in high school (and for another thing have only a vague idea of what all those term projects are... I know definitions, but not much more. Obviously time to do more projects). Apart from that though, we had this college come to our school and "show off" their wonderful electronics program. It was a bunch of crap. Student projects like a self balancing stick, laser harp, and model elevator with sound. And these were like second and third year students! I'm sure with enough time and google, I could have all of those projects down easy (yours, not so much), with a year of electronics class in high school. It seems to be a common theme with electronics teachers to give some ridiculously easy projects and assume they are impossible

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 05:07:47 am
content: Eh, they're just trying to entice more students like that. If they tried to show off something truly complex most of the people they were presenting to would be bored out of their minds.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 06:24:29 am
content: Well in my school megaproject works...They're problem is as long as they're done "school metod like" they're very long, convoluted and error-like, so a very costant supervision of the teacher is needed.More free project, like the self balancing stick, need someone with a very high global know-how of all electronics.The nerd that know everything from led to pid.Not every class has it.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 03:59:19 pm
content: Oh my lord Jesus, it's worse than I thought.Look what we get with our project!(Turns out I was wrong about the curve tracer not needing a step gen). Some are more vague than others... but just look at the temperature controller! Or the motor speed controller! What exactly have they left for us to do?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 04:25:35 pm
content: Perhaps you have to do more than just stick something on a breadboard? Maybe you have to document the design--selection of components, choosing component values, expected range of operation, user controls, test protocols, etc? Then build it up, test it, demonstrate the results, provide full test notes and as built design drawings?Very often in an industrial context the actual widget is only a small part of a whole project.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2013, 04:48:28 pm
content: Yes, we do, and that gives this project a bit more merit. Still, I would hope that in an Electronics class, the term project wouldn't just be a documentation assignment, where the actual electronic part is just something to write about. If I remember correctly, we do take a separate class on that, and have already taken it (I transferred into the EE program after that class would have been taken), so that should just be a basic expectation by now!It really is just this class. They treat us like fools.... I also have a term project for Signals and Systems that basically requires us to all dump our girlfriends and sleep with MATLAB for the next few weeks.It requires every single thing we learned in the class, not just on a vague level, but in more of a "frenzied digging through old notes" way.

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2013, 06:12:51 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on November 18, 2013, 04:48:28 pmDon't you just love it when teachers do this kind of stuff? Glad to know it doesn't stop after high school. Ugh.Quote from: ddavidebor on November 18, 2013, 06:24:29 amAgreed.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2013, 08:30:59 am
content: One thing is when tasks/projects are easy and people perceive them as such. It's much worse, when people actually think those tasks are hard...I remember that we had a course in 3rd year of university, where we had to design, assemble, run and measure a device. Most of the people (once again: people studying 3rd year electronics) had no idea by which end do you grab the soldering iron. And there was one girl (ya, we had some of them), who made this cute LED blinker with shitload of SMD leds, but somehow when she tried to run the thing almost exactly half of them didn't work