Metallurgical microscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 07:21:26 pm
content: Does anyone have any experience with a metallurgical microscope? We would like to buy it for our company but not sure if it suits our needs.So advice would be appreciated.Thank you for help

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 06:52:15 am
content: What are your needs?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 07:14:38 am
content: Also what sort do you have in mind?Here's my story of my Olympus BHM.http://everist.org/NobLog/20150510_Olympus_bhm.htmBut I still don't have a camera adapted to it, so can't show photos of the view.All I can say is that for looking at opaque surfaces up to 400x, it really is spectacular. The system of providing light directly around the objective lens is very effective.Edit: But if you expect to be able to work on things under it, forget it. It's a microscope, not an inspection scope. Only the lowest power objective lens gives even a couple of cm clearance. And the 40x... there's barely any visible gap.Also being a microscope, eye positioning relative to the eyepieces needs to be quite precise. Not suitable for trying to do any hand work at the same time.

author: ealex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 10:53:29 am
content: I am using one for SMD work and it's quite a pain (at least got it for free).The minimum zoom is to big for normal SMD and the field of view is annoyingly small - i can't see an entire TQFP100 package - 70% of it.The working distance is OK - i can work under it with no problem.Test it before - get some boards and check the field of view, etc.

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:39:50 am
content: Quote from: KJDS on October 22, 2015, 06:52:15 amx2I had no idea such a thing as "metallurgical microscopes" existed till reading the OP.I've had 10+ yrs experience working with many different kinds of microscopes (visible to UV optical microscopes, electron transmission and reflection microscopes, photo-electron and X-ray microscopes installed at synchrotrons). But I have no experience with dedicated metallurgical microscopes.Quick search on "metallurgical microscopes" leads me to believe that they are just regular optical microscopes with some tweaks to make them more suitable for examining metal samples; e.g., they allow for variable orientation between light source and the sample. And I guess the better ones will come with software to help analyse/tell you what you're looking at. But honestly they seem like they have the potential for being a gimmick used to sell regular optical microscopes at inflated prices.If you can try one out at negligible cost then go ahead and see if it suits your needs. If it's a big expense, don't bother. Get a good optical microscope for similar or less money and get your engineers to figure out how to make the most of it (e.g., directional illumination is something you can easily add in-house). IMHO

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 01:12:50 pm
content: Quote from: SteveLy on October 22, 2015, 11:39:50 amPerhaps a bit more searching would be worthwhile. Here's a closeup of the Olympus BHM series objectives. Notice how they are much fatter than standard objectives, and at the end there's a ring opening around the final lens.This ring is where the illumination of the sample comes from . (In one mode. Another is with the light via the actual optical path.)Good luck improvising either of these modes on a standard microscope.

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 01:35:00 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 22, 2015, 01:12:50 pmI'm naive and ignorant when it comes to these specialised optical microscopes. Couldn't one just buy such objectives for a regular microscope? In any case, whether it's worth getting one depends on how much more these extra features cost for what they deliver. As long as one appreciates that it's still just an optical microscope with all the limitations of such an instrument (e.g., ~1micron resolution)...

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 04:01:12 pm
content: Contact the American welding society (AWS) or the The welding institute (TWI) they will be able to put you in touch with someone who can advise you on your particular needs.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:13:22 pm
content: Quote from: SteveLy on October 22, 2015, 01:35:00 pmNo, the screw thread is much larger diameter than standard objectives. Also the entire light path in the body of the microscope is unique, and required to get the illumination down to that annular path down the objective.QuoteWhich, for someone without access to an electron microscope, is as good as it gets. As for features/cost, well with ebay one can be lucky. Or even luckier via other sources. This is why mine came without a lamp, and I had to make one.

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:50:30 pm
content: There is superresolution optical that goes down to 100nm. If cost is comparable an SR instrument might be preferable.

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 06:18:03 am
content: Thank you for the replies.@TerraHertz: Can you please post few pictures of objects seen via your microscope?(I am still not sure what kind of magnification will be needed for us.)Thanks

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 08:03:01 am
content: Quote from: Jane on October 23, 2015, 06:18:03 amSorry, can't. I still don't have a camera set up with it. Camera (for two tri-nocular microscopes) and a fancy illuminator for the other one are projects all currently stalled due to getting pushed down the queue. Also having trouble finding some suitable parabolic reflectors for the illuminator project. Frustrating.

author: electronupdate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2016, 07:13:55 pm
content: Hi,I recently purchased a metallurgical microscope, review here:In general the field of view is very small with a microscope. Great for looking at small things like silicon dies for reverse engineering and failure analysis. Not so useful at the board level.This particular microscope seems to share it's construction with the biological microscope I have. It can use the same objectives and I can use the same digital camera on both. There appears to be some standards in the industry at least at the price level.https://youtu.be/cardeKRqT2Y

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2016, 07:30:03 pm
content: AFAIK, the differentiation is mainly in top-down lighting, since bottom-up lighting (as for a traditional biological microscope) would be rather useless.Tim

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2016, 05:09:58 am
content: @electronupdate: Thanks for the review. I am also thinking about buying a metallurgical microscope but not sure if it suits our needs or not.Can you please take a picture( s) of touch screen of a cell phone? I wonder if any wires can be seen in the touch.Thank you

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2016, 07:04:54 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 22, 2015, 07:14:38 amI'm slightly amused by the pile of deflection yokes on the floor.

author: electronupdate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2016, 03:08:48 am
content: Quote from: Jane on May 09, 2016, 05:09:58 amI am not quite sure what you mean by "wires"? On my Iphone (which uses a capacitive touch sense) I am not able to see that detail with the microscope (the front face of the glass prevents the microscope from focussing at the plane where the touch sensor is).