Blood analyzer teardown part 1 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jaxbird
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:21:41 pm
content: Interesting, I have spent quite some time writing interfaces for these kind of machines (and many other kinds of odd hospital equipment, mostly radiology), usually they communicate via the HL7 protocol, querying patient information and submitting lab reports once the analysis is completed.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 09:01:39 am
content: That machine has an insatiable appetite for blood - be careful, Mike. How much blood has it already drawn from you?I am impressed by the amount of mechanical gear and piping in the machine. It is really densely packed in that enclosure unlike some other machines with mostly empty space.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 09:07:40 am
content: Are those machines safe to use without spacial precautions (gloves, face mask)?Alexander.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 09:17:04 am
content: After seeing everything in that machine, the price almost looks low.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 09:21:06 am
content: It would appear most of the plumbing is for the various reagents and for cleaning between tests. Still, it may be wise to use gloves when working on it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 09:59:38 am
content: All the piping on the main unit is very clean - it flushes after every cycle. Th emess is where things have leaked.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 11:33:31 am
content: Meanwhile in China, at 1/100th the price...

author: AndreasF
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 11:35:57 am
content: What a beautiful piece of engineering!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 12:59:16 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 08, 2015, 11:33:31 amTurn on the captioning and turn on the translation. It bears almost no resemblance to the video at all. The phrases such as "Mom role working capital" and such are disturbing to say the least.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 01:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on February 08, 2015, 12:14:06 pmJust for the fun of it - for big stuff, it usually breaks even after selling bits and scrap metal - the lead from the baggage x-ray paid for it, and other bits covered the van rental.At 10-20k views on avarage it's not worth bothering with YT monetisation.I've not done Patreon as I don't want to feel under any pressure to do stuff - have considered kickstarter if I fond something really interesting and expensive...

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 02:32:26 pm
content: When you see the number of steppers, slides, grippers, actuators, spiny things (<< technical term!) and whatnot in that machine, you just know that they wrecked a whole lot of them during their coding/control development.......... ;-)

author: Mashpriborintorg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 04:54:08 pm
content: And here is a video showing similar blood analyzers being assembled, factory is in southern FranceLooks like one of the sensor systems use a pipe small enough to let the blood cells travel across it one by one !

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 08:27:05 pm
content: Horiba ... my first instinct when i saw this machine was 'fancy bread maker' ...i think horiba also makes those and rice-cookers as well.i only hope that there is no news article next week that reads something along the lines of'British electronics hobbyist infected by every blood bourne pathogen known to man ...'with the stuff that has leaked in there ...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 09:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mashpriborintorg on February 08, 2015, 04:54:08 pmGot to love the way they pronounce "horrible medical"

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 08:53:22 pm
content: Part 2

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 12:54:35 am
content: Maybe they designed the case / did the press release before the internal design was completed .. and then had to squeeze the bits in to match the sales pitch.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:29:52 pm
content: nice video Mikeshame the laser was missing!where you expecting it to be there or did you know it was missing before you bought it?

author: alho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 06:08:53 pm
content: 71 valves would make a decent sized waterfall display.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 07:02:50 pm
content: Enough mechanical parts there to make at least 4 3d printers, and I wonder if you could use the rotary turntable and a simple XZ movement ( and a lot of conversion from Cartesian to radial planes in the software) to make a 3D printer optimised for circular objects.Pumps are nice, and the drain system is both simple and likely to not block easily, though looking at the assorted coloured stains and spills inside there has been a lot of oops moments in use, or during maintenance. Would hate to think of the price of the "kit, maintenance, first line" and to the contents, likely it comes in a 10kg box almost as big as the unit. would only be things like the wipe film, ribbon for printer ( at 3 lines per slide it will do thousands and that Citizen printer mech is run at low duty), piping to filters and then filters and such.Printer will be easy to do self test, take the connector that leads to the main board ( not RS232) and you will find that there is a common, a line feed pin, a on off line pin and then it monitors the busy/online and error light outputs. Hold down line feed ( or short the lot to common) and power it up and after 5 seconds let the lot open, it will print a self test pattern or dip switch setting, depending on firmware version.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 07:54:29 pm
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on February 10, 2015, 05:29:52 pmI didn't know, though I assumed the external PSU was missing.No big deal as I've had a couple of similar Argon lasers in the past.The optical bench would have been nice though.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:13:25 pm
content: Maybe the missing parts are still around to the place you bought it.Alexander.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:18:06 pm
content: I really don't understand the purging assembly, it's just not ok to have it leak down the sides of the pistons.There should be a hole in the middle and a simple valve, not like this where it leaks all over the place.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:18:24 pm
content: If anyone fancies one or two unite themselves - just spotted that same seller has another two!http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Horiba-ABX-Pentra-120-Medical-Chemistry-Hematology-Blood-Analyzer-Units-/400861217398?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d5530c276

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:19:02 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 10, 2015, 08:18:06 pmI don't think it's supposed to leak during normal operation

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:20:40 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 10, 2015, 08:19:02 pmWell, since the frame pulling the pistons is in the way of the fluid I can't see it not making a mess.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:29:28 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 10, 2015, 08:20:40 pmI think the idea is the pistons are just to create a vacuum, and fluid is not supposed to get anywhere near them.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:38:22 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 10, 2015, 08:29:28 pmOk, but where is the fluid supposed to be going then? There is a reservoir under the pistons to collect the fluid, very much the same as you can find in any inkjet printer these days.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:42:54 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 10, 2015, 08:38:22 pmI think the idea is that there should either never be fluid in the piston (it pushes & pulls air to displace fluids elsewhere) , or anything that comes in should go back out. Anything that leaks out has got past a seal

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 08:52:49 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 10, 2015, 08:42:54 pmIf it was designed so that there should not be leaking any fluid from the pistons why put a reservoir under it, just for the occasional leakage? Maybe you're right but it still looks weird to me.P.S. Did you get the iris scanner?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 09:06:32 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on February 10, 2015, 08:52:49 pm"just in case..."There were several drip-trays in the main unit - cost of a plastic tray is minimal compared to the potential damage of a leak.QuoteNo - I'm not sure it would have been any more than a camera so not too concerned. Was way more annoyed I didn't win the mass spectrometer! I did ask if they'd do a deal whan I was up there but no joy

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 11:30:12 pm
content: Interesting teardown.The basic principal of these things is thecoulter counter, basically you have two electrolyte baths separated by a divider in which there is a very small hole. A (diluted) blood sample is placed one side of the hole then differential pressure applied to suck a known volume through the hole to the other side. Electrodes are placed in each bath and as a cell passes through the hole there is a change in the current which flows between the electrodes proportional to the volume of the cell - this can be used to categorise the cells and count red cells, white cells and platelets.Remarkable engineering really - the ones which do biochemistry are, if anything, even more involved.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 10, 2015, 09:06:32 pmi was surprised how much that went for, i guess the internals are worth ££ as spares?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:17:06 pm
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on February 12, 2015, 03:04:01 pmFrom what info I could find, it has two turbomolecular pumps inside, and probably an ion gauge or two. Any one of these, if OK, would be worth more than what it went for.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 09:37:46 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 10, 2015, 08:18:24 pmNow down to £100 for 2.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Horiba-ABX-Pentra-120-Medical-Chemistry-Hematology-Blood-Analyzer-Units-/400866280328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d557e0388

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 01:56:50 pm
content: I guess those would also be missing the argon laser?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 02:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on February 18, 2015, 01:56:50 pmNo idea.The laser itself isn't that interesting, especially as the PSU won't be there. I suspect the only vaguely interesting thing on the optical bench would be the photomultiplier.The last picture shows what could be a laser power cable - about the right size & position.

author: tja
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 06:13:29 pm
content: The same vendor also has this:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AGA-Thermovision-680-Medical-Thermal-Imaging-Infrared-Camera-System-/if you are interested in adding to your collection of IR cameras Mike!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 03:26:40 am
content: just watched it.It's amazing what humans can come up with.I just wonder how you could ever be sure it was all functioning properly?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 03:53:12 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 20, 2015, 03:26:40 amI believe that just like electronic test equipment, medical lab equipment has calibration standards that are used. Medical labs in the U.S. are pretty tightly regulated byCLIAto ensure they meet technical standards.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 08:52:42 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 20, 2015, 03:26:40 amISTR reading that the manufacturer supplies an artificial blood substitute for calibration.I would imagine that most measurements would be expected to lie within fairly narrow ranges, so should be plenty of scope for reality checking of results.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 08:58:05 am
content: Id love to see how many man hours this thing took to develop and debug!Price doesnt seem so bad after all.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 01:22:08 pm
content: I'm sure at some level many software programs are as complex as that thing. Perhaps it's just the "physicalness" of it all, but trying to debug something like that would be/could be a very, very hard job. Whoever the people were that made it - hat's off to them.