Least crap USB/tablet/handheld oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 03:52:18 pm
content: I own a Rigol DS1054Z but I'm moving abroad in a couple months so I'm looking to shrink the amount of stuff I have around. I do not use the full capabilities of the Rigol: I only need 2 channels max and primarily use it to analyze audio, so I thought I'd downgrade to something cheaper and smaller, as I can't justify lugging around something like that. I am aware that it's a severe downgrade, and am willing to sacrifice this.So far, I'm looking at the Owon VDS1022I, HDS272S and the FNIRSI-1013D. As the title suggests, what would be the least crap option (or if there are any better ones to consider)? There's an overwhelming number of threads and information to sift through and I'm unfortunately getting confused by all the options. I live in Hong Kong, so importing something from Taobao is both easy and quick for me.It would be nice if it had integrated AWG functionality too. (Edit: decided I want to keep my DMM after all).Thank you in advance for the help!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 04:54:24 pm
content: I found the Owon VDS3104 pretty decent - not sure how similar the 1022 is.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 05:34:27 pm
content: From what I've seen about the VDS1022I, it's basically the cheapest scope which still works properly. Wondering whether the other two would be fine, though from what I've seen the FNIRSI has a terrible UI stock and could use some mods.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 07:54:50 pm
content: Quote from: Ariamella on June 12, 2021, 05:34:27 pmThat actually sums it up perfectly. It's the cheapest one to have a proper front-end and hardware triggering, with no hesitation or glitches on the screen, even on old, low spec, PCs. The hardware is also well known and documented on the forum...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/The stock Owon S/W is reasonably bug free and the UI clean (even if they've never heard of release notes!), however florentbr's S/W is very solid, makes the UI more friendly, adds Linux compatibility, and now implements things like triggering on very slow timebases.https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022P.S. I'm also monitoring the very active FNIRSI thread. It seems to show promise for improvement in the longer term. but seems to have a way to go (I don't know about the all important front-end though).

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 08:02:09 pm
content: I was recently given a vds1022i and it's been really useable. I had to present a lab project, and having it was great as i could present from home sharing my screen showing the oscilloscope. I've compared it to my ds1104z and within the 20MHz bandwidth, it shows pretty much the same as the rigol, it just has a slower update rate, and it doesn't have intensity graded display so doesn't look as nice, but still super useable. I would recommend the vds1022i. It's also perfect to add googly eyes to if you like that kind of thing

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 08:06:51 pm
content: Quote from: Anthocyanina on June 12, 2021, 08:02:09 pm

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 08:45:06 pm
content: Shit, now I want it especially because it's cheap. However, the VDS1022Iis ~$100 whereas the VDS1022 is $70, and I'm not sure if the isolation is worth ~$30 extra.I love how you turned Owon into OwOn by the way, nearly did a spit take

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 08:59:32 pm
content: Quote from: Ariamella on June 12, 2021, 08:45:06 pmMy take would be 'yes it is'. I don't know how much other USB based stuff you'll be using but it only takes a few moments of carelessness to dump a load of current into a USB port ground and fry it, or the PC. If you're looking at audio too, it would be useful to be able to break the ground loop [Edit: you might be ok if using a laptop on battery though].It is possible to mod the VDS1022 to a VDS1022I (Isolated DC-DC and USB isolator) but I doubt whether the hassle and parts cost would significantly offset the $30 difference.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 04:13:49 am
content: that would be these two parts, yes? Are the two footprints just unpopulated on the non-i version? Something like that is no problem for me

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 05:05:22 am
content: Quote from: Ariamella on June 12, 2021, 08:45:06 pmQuote from: Ariamella on June 13, 2021, 04:13:49 amThose are the parts! I've read Gyro's thread on the 1022i and i think it was a couple of people who converted their non i into the i version, and the cost of those parts seems to be pretty much the same as the added cost for the i version. The usb isolator alone is like 12$ on mouser.com and the dc to dc isolated supply about 15$ i think?Forgot to mention, the footprints are not entirely unpopulated, they just bridge the connections to the usb data and power with resistors (was it 0 ohm resistor bridges?)

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 05:38:02 am
content: I'm pretty much sold on the 1022 at this point. Would the HDS2x2S be worth getting over this? I do like how it has an AWS integrated and it doesn't seem to be that bad either other.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 07:36:06 am
content: Quote from: Ariamella on June 12, 2021, 03:52:18 pmAnalog Discovery fits in the palm of your hand.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 08:08:48 am
content: Unfortunately at $399, it's almost 4 times as much as my budget.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 08:32:56 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 13, 2021, 07:36:06 amIt is 3 times more expensive and also not a proper scope (i.e. it doesn't have real front end like VDS1022I does).I would also chose Owon VDS1022I from the choices presented.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 09:21:22 am
content: Bet, time to sell my Rigol and then get the OwOn

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 04:20:08 pm
content: Oh! one more thing i would like to mention that i absolutely love about the owon is that it has alt trigger mode! I can't believe no other modern oscilloscopes seem to have that! of course, seeing how one signal is time related to another one is super useful, but being able to also see two signals that are not time related, on the same screen, and be able to compare them i think is really quite nice

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 07:48:27 pm
content: I'm completely sold. Thank you guys for all the help! It also helps that the OwOn is so cheap

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 10:28:12 pm
content: Just out of curiosity, how does the Picoscope 2000 series compare with the Owon?I found a teardown...https://youtu.be/UGNmnU65lzU?t=256

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 09:17:36 am
content: I did have a look at the 2204B but there wasn't much info I could find

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 11:48:42 am
content: Pico scopes and s/w are excellent. Anything above the 2204A 10MHz version will completely blow your budget though. 10MHz would still be fine for audio and general logic of course (even the 10MHz one is still 100Msps like the Owon).I don't know how well prices translate for US / HK agents (probably not well) so it probably doesn't fall into the lowest cost "Least crap USB/tablet/handheld oscilloscope". It depends how much extra you are prepared to fork out.https://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope/2000/picoscope-2000-overviewUnfortunately there is a cost associated with British design, manufacture and support versus Chinese.EDIT: The price gets a bit better if you source your own probes (they're optional).

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 02:42:11 pm
content: Well I will be moving to the UK in a couple months so I could get it from there.My concern is now probably how well the OwOn can do FFTs, as I do like to see how much distortion an amp puts out at a glance. I know it won't be great but I would like something adequate at least.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 03:26:52 pm
content: Ha, you get about!The Owon is ok, apart from the FFT only being displayed on a quarter of the screen - the display splits into three, normal traces at the bottom and then X-Y and FFT side by side above, it has a measurement cursors though. The Pico S/W certainly does a better job, with decent full screen capabilities and analysis, I don't know if you can display the trace and FFT at the same time though [Edit:Yes it can]. As you note, neither will be perfect with only 8 bit ADCs (no change from the Rigol there though!). The Pico software can do some form of oversampling to squeeze another couple of bits, but I can't remember if that is only on their 12 and 16 bit offerings. Analysis is definitely one of Pico's S/W strengths.You should certainly download the Pico S/W and try it in demo mode (iirc). The UIs are very different in feel - the Owon controls are as you've seen in the thread (you can download the Owon S/W too to try the IU but it won't give you trace). The Pico is very different in feel - much more windows app with toolbar and pull-downs, it also displays absolute values for the axes rather than V/div, uS/Div. I have an old model 16 bit Pico and the Owon and I tend to find a bit of a mental jolt when switching between the two UIs, don't let that detract though.P.S. The Owon VDS1022I is virtually unique in having galvanic isolation (by virtue of only needing standard speed USB 2). I can't think of any USB competitors, regardless of price having the same, due to the relative absence and cost of USB High-speed isolators. You are presumably used to the Rigol chassis being hard grounded anyway (just not through a PC USB port).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 03:36:02 pm
content: Gyro pretty much summed up all the benefits of the Owon - I am a happy owner of a VDS1022I and the isolation is well worth the added cost, mostly for peace of mind.In addition to all the other aspects (Alt triggering being a really nice one), another one that was pretty compelling was the fact that florentbr's software has become open - in other words, give it a few years and the community can still support the oscilloscope when OSes and other surrounding variables change.I don't think you will regret it. Good luck!

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 05:03:35 pm
content: QuoteI am a globetrotter, that's for sure! This will be my 2nd time in the UK but this time I hope to stay for realQuoteTime to try it out for myself, though I wonder how the open-source software compares. Is it possible to try that out too?Even considering UK pricing, the Picoscope will be (edit: more than!) twice as much as the OwOn...and honestly, reading a little more, I don't think it's a significant enough upgrade to be able to justify paying that as a student.Also, I'm sacrificing surprisingly little compared to the Rigol, at least for my needs. I expected to get something that was kind of janky but it looks like it's actually very useable. I was frankly quite surprised that the 1022 is still a relevant product considering its age and it being such a cheapo; the fact it still is is very much a green flag, or perhaps a sign that this industry hasn't progressed that much? Not sure, hmm...QuoteProbably a contributor to that was this, though. Definitely a plus for sure!QuoteYeah I am, luckily haven't suffered any accidents in the time I've used the 1054, but it would be a nice safety cushion if I decide to try any sleep-deprived shenanigans.At the end of the day as long as it's adequate and doesn't make me bash my face against the wall, I'll most likely be fine. Can't be worse than Fritzing constantly crashing on meand it definitely helps to have realistic expectations for the price.Speaking of, there's gonna be a taobao sale in two days, so I'll snag the 1022i for cheap then. Thanks for the help, will update once I get it!

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2021, 03:30:55 pm
content: Got my 1022 in! Bought it for just under $50 too, incredible deal. Decided to spring for the version without isolation in the end. Obligatory pics of the innards:

author: tmcks
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 01, 2021, 10:09:18 pm
content: How are you liking the VDS1022?I ask because I have been tasked with finding a portable/usb oscilloscope for a traveling technician my company has hired in Asia. I was thinking of recommending the VDS1022I based on this thread.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2021, 12:28:13 am
content: Quote from: tmcks on July 01, 2021, 10:09:18 pmIt might help to indicate what your tech will be doing. These PC scopes might not be all that useful in an application where you need isolated channel protection and a CAT rating for example.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2021, 11:16:28 pm
content: It's good for the basic stuff I'm using it for: looking at audio-level signals and the like and seeing if the stuff I make is working well. Might not be so good for your tech depending on their use case though, a portable scope with built-in screen might be better.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2021, 07:15:51 am
content: Well, got the DC/DC isolator and USB signal isolator (DC/DC power isolator from Mouser, USB signal isolator from a USB isolator from Taobao but it worked standalone) and soldered them just fine, removing the 8 jumper resistors, but it doesn't power on or connect to the PC. Any ideas as to why? I appear to be missing U12 but I have no idea what it is.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2021, 09:36:59 am
content: That's annoying.I'm assuming you are using the correct DC-DC. It would be worth checking that is generating an output voltage. The USB isolator is an ADUM3160 - should be fine if it was working on the standalone unit.My though is that maybe the ADUM3160 isn't receiving its 5V supply voltage on both sides, it would be worth pulling the datasheet and checking - remembering that the supplies are relative to the ground pin on its respective side on the isolator, not common ground.My board is an older rev so the part idents don't correspond, but mine has the diode on the underside fitted - underneath the USB connector (D5 on my board - see my original teardown thread). The package marking is B140 - probably MBRS140 (?) 1A 40V Schottky. I don't know if this is isolated supply related.I can't see U12 on your photo, but if it is the 16 pin footprint on the underside, surrounded by small capacitors, then it is an RS232 chip associated with the non-implemented serial port.As I say, the component idents on my board are different, but I don't think the components in that area have moved, so it would be worth referring to the photos on the first page of my teardown thread to see if there are any other differences.I hope this helps.EDIT: Ah, I see U12 now. That was a video sync separator, used for video triggering. I think it's done in the FPGA now, definitely not USB Isolation related.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2021, 05:34:52 pm
content: On my board the diode is stacked on top of a cap in front of the USB connector...very strange way of doing so, maybe the original position has some issue or another, or it might actually be why it's not working...will take a look at the voltages once I have time. This is the part I got:https://www.mouser.hk/ProductDetail/595-DCP020505U/.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2021, 07:05:28 pm
content: Yes, that's the right DC-DC. Member Indman, among other, have done it successfully.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2771522/?topicseen#msg2771522.Hopefully you got the right DC-DC package orientation (we can all get careless, and the SMD package, unlike the dip, has a symmetrical physical pinout).It is certainly time to do some voltage measurements. Check that you have 5V output from the DC-DC and supplies on both sides of the ADUM3160 as I mentioned previously.

author: Ariamella
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2021, 03:34:19 pm
content: Well, I gave the chips a quick blast with the hot-air gun to reflow and added a bit of solder to the joints and...it worked. The DC/DC converter must've had a cold joint...well, at least it's working now