z wave protocol - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jayesh s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:12:59 am
content: i want to work by using z wave protocol. what all the things i have to do for it?

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:39:15 am
content: Look, this isn't google. If you aren't willing to demonstrate that you did at leastsomeresearch, no one is going to be willing to spend their own time to do the research you should be doing.

author: hexreader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:50:51 am
content: Quote from: abraxa on July 27, 2017, 09:39:15 amabraxa, I really like the way that you worded that reply. Please may I have permission to steal that paragraph and use it on the other forums that I frequent? There are many other lazy posters out there that are in need of such a reply.Maybe I could use it for a tag line?

author: jayesh s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:53:19 am
content: actually i just joined a project of iot. there trying to connect devices like temperature sensor to a gateway ie radxa board. there asked me to establish a connection with the gateway using zwave protocol. so i expect your help to know the things for zwave connection

author: blackbird
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:48:42 am
content: Quote from: jayesh s on July 27, 2017, 09:53:19 amIf someone in real life asked me for help like this........

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 12:19:14 pm
content: When my expectation of being paid $10000000 is met, I'll gladly tell you everything I know about Z-wave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 03:32:03 pm
content: Quote from: abraxa on July 27, 2017, 09:39:15 amthe most polite answer if you want to help a bit is...http://lmgtfy.com/?q=z+wave+protocol

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 03:55:22 pm
content: easiest way : become a member of the z-wave association, pay them 10k$ for a developers licence and buy one of their 1500$ devkits to get your hands on the stack code ( oh, and sign an NDA too ). oh and buy a licence ot the Keil compiler , as that is the only supported compiler. Once your device is ready : fork over 2K$ to get it certified and assigned an ID.other way : not possible. you can't get your hands on anything you need. no silicon, no code, no certification, no documentation.z-wave is a proprietary encrypted protocol. the silicon is made by a company called Sigma Designs. the chip is a modified 8051 core with the necessary radio on board.from the z-wavealliance website :Quotei looked into this a couple of years ago ( since my entire house runs on z-wave). it is undoable as a hobbyist. They protect their ecosystem very heavily.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 04:03:47 pm
content: So what is this then? You could use ics from members of the alliance?https://z-uno.z-wave.me

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 06:57:13 pm
content: when i last looked at it (2 years ago( that did not exist ...i guess these guys bit the bullet, paid for the devkit, compiled a binary blob and made it arduino like to use.but the cost is staggering ... 69.90 for this little thing. that chip costs barely 5$ .... guess someone must cough up the royalties to the z-wave consortium ....

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:34:36 pm
content: Yes someone has to pay for it, but so what if you must have a proprietary device hooked up to zwave the cost is secondary if you compare it to starting from scratch and reinvent the wheel yourself.However personally I would not like a closed system for my home automation, I rather build it myself.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:49:55 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 27, 2017, 03:55:22 pmTypical French way of doing business. Fencing off their own, so nobody even bothers coming close. I dont even know, why anyone ever would bother wit Z-wave, it is zigbee, but slightly worse in every aspect.I would not even expect to have english documentation there, or if there is, it will be filled with words, like programmation and tension.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:27:30 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on July 27, 2017, 09:49:55 pmEhm. Stereotyping much? As if locked down, proprietary designs and ecosystems were a french invention or only the French were using them. Can we keep such nationalistic jibes out of engineering, please?

author: jayesh s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 08:41:46 am
content: hi free_electron,thanks for your reply. i had gone through your answer. but i expect an open stack, so that i can edit as my need and a hardware module that support zwave protocol.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 09:02:04 am
content: You sure expect a lot of things...

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 10:33:48 am
content: Posting to simply follow the fun

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 03:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: jayesh s on July 28, 2017, 08:41:46 amThen choose another protocol, z-wave as free electron mentioned is a closed protocol, members only party. So your options for any success with z-wave are limited to- the z-uno or- pay $20000 and become a developer

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 04:53:19 pm
content: open stack ? There is no such thing as free sauce in z-wave.Sign the NDA , use the precompiled libraries and off you go. the z-wave protocol is closed and secret.Even witht he NDA signed they will not disclose how the routing etc works. you get a precompiled library and an API. the z-wave stack is not available in source form.It contains a number of features not found in zigbee (where everyone just farts around and doesn't give a rats ass about interoperability with someone else's products ).Your product needs approval to get it on the market. simply to guarantee it will play nice with the other devices .Like i said : i have a z-wave system in my house. Setup is real simple. Click the 'learn' button on the dongle , press the button on the device and they are now paired. the system is a mesh network that is self learning and self routing. i can send commands from a master to a slave (actuator device) , or 'pair' a controller to a slave device. The beauty of z-wave is that there is no master controller required. Most domotics system bank on a central controller. if that controller dies, crashes, explodes or whatever the entire system stops working. Z-wave doesnt have that problem. if a node dies , only that node is dead. the rest keeps functioning as intended.oh, and z-wave is not french ( i don;t know where you got that ...) it comes from the scandinavian countries. denmark i believe )

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 04:53:35 pm
content: If he didn't understand the closed nature of the protocol then he's really in over his head (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/info-tech/95-engineers-in-india-unfit-for-software-development-jobs-study/article9652211.ece) or hinting for some kind of cracked/pirate version.I get the impression this is an attempt at being entrepreneurial and thinking someone on the internet is going to do all the work for you.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 08:57:32 pm
content: Quote from: hermit on July 28, 2017, 04:53:35 pmDon't worry, European or US university grads are not much better.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 09:55:17 pm
content: Either use something open with proper dev kits available, or pay Z-Wave... their stuff is pay to play in every respect. There's nothing open that I can find, except some basic host drivers maybe.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 10:42:21 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on July 28, 2017, 08:57:32 pmI went to a school where I knew their code program was crap but my company was footing the bill and I didn't want to be a code monkey. An EE told me that more and more you really needed to have some background so I took some classes. This was during the dot.com bubble though and they could place anyone they graduated regardless of their level of proficiency. A few years later I had one of the professors tell me someone had told them to NEVER contact them about placement again because none of the coders they accepted were able to cut it.I think all of this rush to believe every single person on Earth needs to be able to code is ludicrous, but I'm sure it is fueling the educational glut. Of course it is being fueled by companies seeking to drive down their coding costs too.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 12:18:34 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 27, 2017, 03:55:22 pmSadly, because as relatively well as Z-Wave works, there's a huge amount of total, complete, and utter junk on the market. Battery life measured in days, temperature sensors offset by 4C or more for no reason, total lack of documentation, etc.

author: WastelandTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 01:13:38 am
content: Quote from: BradC on July 28, 2017, 10:33:48 am.

author: jayesh s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 03:55:29 am
content: hi free electron,thanks for the replay. i dnt know that it is a closed protocol and no open stack. i was continuously searching for open stack in web. thanks. i am a part of research project. let me discuss with my mates as what have to do further.

author: jayesh s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:26:18 am
content: please see the link. there is an open stack. the problem with this is they are not mentioning about the hardware module here.http://www.openzwave.com/dev/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:28:44 am
content: There is no open stack. That is a library for communicating with theclosedstack. There is no support for the hardware there and there won't be.You're not going to use Z-Wave unless you pay for it.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 01:21:39 am
content: Quote from: jayesh s on July 29, 2017, 04:26:18 amI suggest you click on the support link at the bottom of that page then and post your questions there. That is obviously the correct forum for what you are looking to do then as no one here is giving you the answers you want.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 03:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: hermit on July 28, 2017, 10:42:21 pmThere is "code" and "code".You can churn out trained monkeys that will be able to use a few javascript frameworks and cobble some mess together quickly. But that's a monkey, not a software engineer - for that one needs to know quite a bit more (design, complexity theory, bits of computability theory, good foundations in math & logic, etc.)Granted, I am biased, because I have specifically the "old school" software background and degree in it. On the other hand, as with everyting, you get what you pay forBTW, the idea behind the push to teach "coding" in schools is not completely wrong or misguided. Not everyone will (nor needs to) be a programmer. However, the basics of abstract thinking, problem modelling and math that this teaches (well, depending on curiculum, of course) are useful to anyone wanting to do a white collar job today, heck even blue collar one - ever heard of CNC machines?Even if it means only being more efficient with Excel because you know how that you can automate certain tasks in it by writing a few macros. Or even less than that - just understanding that the machine is not just a magic black box spitting out answers that nobody is supposed to question is important and a lot of people has no clue about this. Especially today, when computer algorithms are used even for things like determining for how long should a judge jail you based on how likely it is that you will re-offend or mundane things like whether you will get a mortgage or not.Anyway, this is off-topic here. I have only made the comment to point out the stereotyping that it is the Indian coders that are incompetent - as if "westerners" were any better.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 07:09:53 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on July 31, 2017, 03:05:10 pmUnderstood. I was one of those old xxxxx going back to school on the company dime. I had enough experience to gauge the quality (or lack of) instruction being offered in the classes I took.On the other side the classes in EET I took were very good. The department head lamented that engineers used to go out and start companies, now they were expected to train them to go out and "get jobs". Like I said though, the coders could get jobs. They couldn't keep them but the university only tracks placement percentages and they had an excellent track record in that regard. One guy that started in the EET courses the same time I did switched because the classes were "so much easier" in the computer department.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 03:10:05 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 28, 2017, 04:53:19 pmI totally confused myself with Z-Wave and Sigfox.Too many damn competing RF standards.