Warranty NOT void, says FTC  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Puffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 11:58:56 am
content: FTC agrees with Dave"Questionable provisions" ... "This warranty does not apply if this product . . .has had the warranty seal on the  altered, defaced, or removed."https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 12:05:46 pm
content: Consumer law for the win!I'm a nerd and I love "legalese". The more people who start asserting their rights and challenging companies over shoddy design, longevity and reasonable robustness, the better.We're lucky in AU, our consumer laws are quite powerful and companies such as Apple have been pulled into line because of it.We constantly complain that "stuff isn't made the way it used to be"... well... it doesn't have to be that way.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 05:31:44 pm
content: In marginally plainer English:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43724348I wonder what the implication is for calibration? We build several products that have a void type label over the calibration pot access hole..

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 06:23:40 pm
content: Calibration is not warranty.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2018, 04:00:05 am
content: Quote from: fcb on April 11, 2018, 05:31:44 pmCalibration and product warranty (or labels stopping you from opening/servicing/repairing) equipment are two different things.Calibration is intended to be performed either by the user or someone providing calibration services after the device is purchased (and in some cases at regular intervals throughout the product's life). An out-of-spec device doesn't mean it's faulty. If a user is dumb enough to adjust the calibration and buggers it up in the process, well that's their fault. I wouldn't expect anyone to cover that under warranty. Same thing with repairs, if a user screws it up and makes the problem worse, again, not a warranty issue.However if someone with due skill and experience opens a device and attempts a repair but is unable to complete it for whatever reason (spare parts unavailable, service tools not open to the public, DRM etc...) and is denied warranty because a seal is removed, well that's bullshit.It's the same if I went to a computer store and bought a generic PC (not that I would), but then later decided to upgrade the RAM or replace the hard disk. Even a relatively inexperienced user could do that. Does it mean the warranty is void on everything else just because they didn't return it to the store? Nope!Consumer law in Australia is pretty powerful. A good example are cars.. people seem to think that if you buy a new car from a dealer, then that car must be serviced by that dealer (or some other "authorised repairer") otherwise the manufacturer warranty is void. Not so! You can take your shiny new car to anyone who knows what they are doing (even your next door neighbour who happens to know about cars) and the manufacturer warranty still applies.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2018, 11:42:40 am
content: Quote from: Puffin on April 11, 2018, 11:58:56 amRight to repair has been a hot topic in the US. I am aware of at least one case (USA) in which a Federal judge required that extended warranty repairs be made by the manufacturer's authorized dealers, even though they were paid for by the individual. That seemingly violates Magnuson-Moss.Specifics: Certain models of the Ford F-150 (mainly model years 2005-2007 with 8 cylinder engines) had defective spark plugs installed at the factory. When attempting to change those plugs, they separated leaving the threaded portion and ceramic insulator part in the cylinder head. That led to some very expensive spark plug changes, sometimes in excess of $2000 if the heads needed to be removed. A typical cost was about $100 per cylinder labor + parts. After a class-action lawsuit, the judge awarded some relief in terms of partial compensation for plug changes that had already been done at non-Ford shops. However, those who had not gone through that expense (typically those with low mileage trucks) had to have the service done at a Ford dealership to get any relief after the judgement. No limit was put on what the dealership could charge. The immediate response was for the dealerships to up their charge to offset the relief mandated by the decision.Bottom line is that while there may be law on your side, the cost of getting relief on an individual basis is not worth it for for the vast majority of cases.

author: soubitos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 07:25:46 am
content: Customer buys computer. Customer opens computer. Customer screws computer. Customer comes to my store asking me to find the problem saying nothing about his actions. I spend 2 days over a dead PC with faulty HDD trying to figure it out, save his data and most of all trying to make sure everything works as it should. Ask him to pay at least for damaged MB which i cannot send to supplier for replacement as its obviously mechanically damaged. Refuses claims its my fault, it was like that when i build it for him and the HDD is "obviously used as it cannot be damaged in 1-2 months he has the computer".....Makes a scene, shouts, demands to get his computer back or he will go to the police etc... i give him his computer, say nothing but start secure label all computers, even not mine but those i serviced over the time.. I need to know what is going on with the computer that YOU made so i can fix it faster, easier and cheaper... for customer and me.. long story short, this guy was friend of a customer etc and few months later i hear about the story of this guy who opened he new PC removed the HDD, dropped it after having RAM removed, reinstalled, couldnt make it, forced it, damaged RAM Slot, managed to insert it the right way only to find the PC wouldnt boot anymore but didnt pay anything because "these small stores are afraid of the police or something and why "we must buy from big companies to be safe"

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 02:02:11 pm
content: Quote from: soubitos on April 20, 2018, 07:25:46 amI feel your pain, that's one of the reasons I don't build or repair things for money any more.Sadly sometimes you have to take the hit and make a loss but if possible go over the equipment with the client when they drop it off, make note of any obvious damage to the exterior, if your warranty stickers have been tampered with you need to open the device in front of them and do the same, point out any damage, take photos, make notes etc.I worked in a repair shop for a few years and it's amazing what clients will try to get away with, one client tried to sue us for for damages to his household decor and injuries sustained when a monitor 'exploded' and burned him.Except when it came to getting an independent report for our insurers he couldn't produce any medical evidence or evidence of damage to his house either.Turns out he had a bit of a history of fake insurance claims and had tried it on with a few shops in the local area.The monitor was returned to us by his wife and, needless to say, it worked perfectly with no sign of any overheating that we could see. To be safe though, it became my bench monitor and worked perfectly for over a year until I got a newer one.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2018, 05:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on April 20, 2018, 02:02:11 pmYou have to do what the guy at Rossmann's shop (was it Paul or Jason?) did and open up the girls laptop in front of her mom and show her the liquid damage.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2018, 07:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: fcb on April 11, 2018, 05:31:44 pmI have designed equipment with "calibration void" stickers on it. They are there as the unit is sealed with a dry nitrogen atmosphere. Any moisture in it changes the performance (and totally screw up the readings) hence the sticker. Given that one of the units has very weird construction it is mostly to stop customs from open them.