New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 10:54:06 pm
content: There's another thread on this, but I thought I'd put everything together on one page. We launched a new 1000 X-Series scope on 8-Jan! It's the 4-channel version of the 1000 X-Series.We're also giving a bunch of them away here:http://bit.ly/Wave2019_EEVBlog(tell your friends)Website:https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?cc=US&lc=engDatasheet:Quick overview:2 models:DSOX1204ADSOX1204G (the "G" has the built-in WaveGen)3 bandwidths - 70, 100, 200 MHz (software upgradeable)Key features:Standard:Frequency Response Analyzer (G models)20 MHz WaveGen + Arb (G models)5 digit Frequency counterDigital Voltmeter (Free with product registration)Mask testing70 MHzUpgrades:I2C + SPI + RS232 protocol decoding licenseCAN + LIN protocol decoding license100 MHz bandwidth200 MHz bandwidthApproximate pricing:$998 for the 70 MHz base model – DSOX1204A$1204 for the base model (with built in generator) - DSOX1204G+$350 for 70 to 100 MHz upgrade+$700 for 70 to 200 MHz upgrade+$350 for 100 to 200 MHz upgrade+$155 for Embedded Serial Triggering and Analysis (I2C, SPI, RS232) – D1200EMBA+$155 for Automotive Serial Triggering and Analysis (CAN, LIN) – D1200AUTAIncludes four N2140A 200 MHz switchable 10:1/1:1 passive probes

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 01:15:11 pm
content: Thank you for the great information.I have to update the oscilloscope chartMaybe this weekend...

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 01:57:53 pm
content: Daniel,These look like really nice scopes, I think the selection of features for the price range is just right. The Decision to make these 4-channel is a very good one IMHO.Do we need to be listening in on the online presentation to win?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 02:42:51 pm
content: Thanks for the info.It's nice, that you can offer a 4 channel scope with so many features for such little money.So, almost a year has passed since the last wave? Time really flies fast these days.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 03:32:28 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on January 14, 2019, 10:54:06 pmon Keysight.com it says $1348 for the A model as Typical Price, but includes the 100MHz upgrade!!... you should correct it to say $998 as at the beginning it scared me but if it is $998, I might consider buying one

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 04:47:17 pm
content: @TK - Sorry for the confusion! I'll pass your feedback along to the team, I don't remember the logic of when we use "typically configured price" vs. "base price" on the web.@Gandalf_Sr - no, you don't have to be watching.

author: Twasnow
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 10:03:46 pm
content: I've been waiting for this DSOX1204G to get in to stock in march, but SIGLENT has the SDS2204XThis DSOX1204G looks like a great offering from a very reputable brand, but for pretty much the same price there is the Siglent SDS2204X (actually a few bucks cheaper once all options are added).I haven't used either scope, and the fine details (fft functions, usability, etc.) I don't know. but on paper it seems like the Siglent is superior in specs and and has more features (logic analyzer)140,000wfm/s - 500,000wfm/s in a sequence mode (not sure what this really means)slightly larger screen (8 inch vs 7 inch)16 bit logic analyzer including probe25Mhz function gen. instead of 20mhz (not a huge deal)all serial bus decoders for $250 less.140Mpts memory with up to 80,000 segments ( instead of 1Mpts )so what am I missing that might make the keysight DSOX1204G the better choice (I don't NEED logic analyzer, but it would be nice)To make it clear I really don't know which way to go! and I have no idea if specs can be trusted at face value.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 10:26:38 pm
content: Quote from: Twasnow on February 12, 2019, 10:03:46 pmLet's try and help......Which specs in particular are important, like whatmustyou have ?

author: Twasnow
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 10:57:45 pm
content: well, they both have everything I MUST have,(I currently run a HP 54512B, but it's getting sleepy, and I really want something more modern with proper memory (8k I believe on this scope)The really want the decoding (all of it, I am designing for CAN bus a lot and I2C a lot)I have never bought Chinese test equipment (save for a few beater linear power supplies) even my main portable multi-meter is the Agilent U1253B, so I am a little leery making a jump to Siglent.I primarily do embedded systems for use in robotics and industrial controls (non-PLC based) so a pretty good mix of analog circuitry, digital, and communications. (I'm not getting in to any RF communications design, I'll pull off the shelf.. always)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 11:45:54 pm
content: Quote from: Twasnow on February 12, 2019, 10:57:45 pmGreat, thanks.Just a jump to 10+ Mpts/ch will open up another world for you then.Decode for the SDS2kX range is an $ option while you can have it for free in the X-E models however I see 4ch is a primary need so that rules out the SDS2000X-E 2ch range.I can't see any reason why a $499 SDS1104X-E couldn't meet your needs bar it doesn't have an inbuilt AWG.It's a MSO too like the SDS2kX models but they have a much nicer probe set and no need for the external MSO box like X-E models.I'd say keep looking and familiarize yourself with the specs of other models available.Happy hunting.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2019, 11:49:35 pm
content: Quote from: Twasnow on February 12, 2019, 10:57:45 pmIf you are really after decoding then look at the R&S RTB2000 too. Maybe outside the budget but R&S really put much thought into cramming as much information as possible on the screen. For example: if you make the decoder traces higher, the texts rotate 90 degrees when the boxes get smaller so there is more room horizontally to show packets without losing the information. I don't know whether R&S is the only one doing this but I have not seen this on other oscilloscopes.Sorry for going off-topic in this thread but Tautech is peddling Siglent as wellI'll stop right here.Edit: one advantage of the Keysight though is that it can decode across segments and use the list display to jump from one segment to the other. In turn I have not seen any other oscilloscopes do that.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 12:38:49 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 12, 2019, 11:49:35 pmI am not sure the Keysight 1000X series has list display for serial decoding, are you referring to 2000 / 3000 series?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 12:57:20 am
content: Do Siglents have the same hardware based processing, like decoding and the interface? I thought they don't.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 07:37:53 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 13, 2019, 12:57:20 amHardware based processing is nice for speed but is crap sometimes.If you capture something, and then switch on decoding it won't decode anything. You need to recapture, because decoding works in capture time not display.With software decode you can see something and than switch on decoding, even experiment if this is this or that.Every solution has it's pros' and cons, and what is best for you depends heavily on what you do and what is your process.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 09:09:37 am
content: Quote from: TK on February 13, 2019, 12:38:49 amI don't know about the 1000X series. I'd assume a scope with decoding has a list display...

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 09:25:59 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 12, 2019, 11:49:35 pmAll Picoscopes.

author: Calvin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 09:29:07 am
content: Hi,QuoteIs that really ´such little money´?A similar equipped Keysight with 200MHz and bus decoders -still with not as many features and functionality as the Siglent SDS1204X-E- costs >2k€ ... almost 3 times as much.From the pictures it is a GWInstek OEM ... hence also of chinese origin.Honest question ... in what regard is the Keysight better or offers more to close the financial gap?regardsCalvin

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:23:31 am
content: With my apologies to Daniel and Keysight , I personally wouldn't recommend any of their scopes less than 3000 series.3000 series is amazingly fast, both in user responsiveness and in retrigger time and is pleasure to use.It also has very short memory, and as such is not good for lots of decoding, or looking at long captures.But as interactive scope is the best.On the other hand, what is pretty much a single flaw with 3000T (short sample memory) is many times worse with 1000X and 2000 series, and also waveform capture rate is much slower on 1000x/2000 (which was one of good things with 3000). So you get worst of the both worlds.If you are looking at 1000X series class, from A manufacturer you have RTB2000 that will give you 20x the scope in every regard,but for more money, or you can look at the GW Instek MSO/MDO/GDS-2000E that are fantastic scopes, and also Siglent 1000X-E or even Rigol MSO5000 series (still really new, but will be stable in coming months) for much less money and much better capabilities.P.S.: I own a fully optioned 3000T and love it for what it is. But also own a Picoscope 3406D MSO, because it has 512MS sample memory. I use that one for decoding if I need to decode something seriously. If I had to have only one scope, and wanted to decode , I would choose one with long memory. There is no replacement for that and bandwidth.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:30:23 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2019, 10:23:31 ambut don't forget that you can't trigger on decode.. and more importantly, on decode errors.If i had to have only one scope and wanted to devoce i would choose one that has the required protocol and can trigger on errors, then memory, then bandwidth.But besides that, ditto everything except the rigol 5000. The more i see of it the more i see them repeating the same old errors again and again.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:49:13 am
content: I tend to agree that 1Mpt memory is just not enough these days for a new scope in this price range.Who's the target customer here, Tek TDS3000 users that are desperate for anything over 10kpt?What's the reasoning on releasing a new product line with such low memory? Is it just to not cannibalize the sales of higher end products? I can't see it's actually a parts cost issue for the memory chips. Trying to squeeze the last bit of life from an old custom ASIC?(that was a lot of question marks....)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 11:21:06 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on February 13, 2019, 10:30:23 amAgree. Complained to Pico many times about that. But despite that, my pico has huuge memory and in segmented mode you can capture hours of slow traffic and then just filter.But sometimes that is not enough, so I use Keysight for it's trigger to pinpoint errors, and even sometimes to cross trigger...I also don't like some design decisions on new Rigols. But still, at least, on this new platform there is room to grow and we'll see if they fix some problems.I personally like direction in which Siglent is going with these new scopes much better .But if someone would give me Keysight 3000T with 50MS per ch sample memory depth, that would be hard to beat.I think that if new 1000X from Keysight had 10Mpoints per ch (like GW Instek) that would be something fantastic.This way, it is just 2000 without MSO, smaller case and no individual controls per ch.It's an art of giving less not giving more to your customers.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 11:30:47 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 13, 2019, 09:09:37 amNot the Keysight 1000X series, and micsig added it in the latest firmware

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 11:32:56 am
content: Why did you again look over on the Logic Analyzer?

author: w4tch0
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 01:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: Calvin on February 13, 2019, 09:29:07 amI came to the same conclusion. In the market for a 4 channel 100MHz scope with I2C/SPI decoding and looking at local retailers pricing the Keysight came in literary 3 times the price. Waiting for some reviews and teardowns to see what might justify the price premium. I hope they at least improved the internal build quality. The 2 channel 1000x series was major disappointment in this regard.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 01:06:11 pm
content: Quote from: w4tch0 on February 13, 2019, 01:00:28 pmCan you list the issues you had with the 1000X build quality?

author: w4tch0
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 01:24:05 pm
content: Assortment of cheap no name caps on the PSU. Crappy fan mounted in the worst way possible for acoustics. And then there was this non-sense with the screen and dead pixels... Now don't get me wrong. All of that is acceptable or expected if you are trying to build something as cheap as possible. But building something like that, in china, and then asking 3 times the price over something else of similar build quality does not sit well with me.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 09:23:03 pm
content: We're exploring whether or not it's feasible to add a lister into the 1000X scopes, but only in the exploratory phase right now.I won't pretend that Keysight doesn't charge a premium for test gear. The low-cost oscilloscope market is definitely in a pricing race-to-the-bottom, and it's not a surprise that we come in at a higher price than many other manufacturers in this space. To "win" this "market" we'd have to push out scopes that simply wouldn't meet our standards on a number of different fronts.@w4tch0, is there a thread or discussion around dead screen pixels? I must have missed it and neither I nor the scope support lead have heard about it.And sure, the PSU caps aren't the best out there, but looking at the numbers the reliability of the 2-channel 1000X isinsanelygood. I obviously can't share numbers, but the AFR/MTBF is easily 2x better than a lot of our other gear.I've also not heard anything negative from actual users about fan noise...

author: w4tch0
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:23:13 pm
content: There was a fine print note in the original InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series datasheet that said that up to 5 dead/stuck pixels are not considered a defect. Seems to not be there anymore in the later revisions. Someone must've come to senses since that was frankly a bit ridiculous.The 2 channel 1000x series is on the market barely for 2 years now so I think it might be a bit early to evaluate failure rate of the electrolytic caps but if Keysight is able to "make it work" and sell enough of the units for the price all power to them. I'm not saying the scope is bad it's just a matter of (my personal) expectation for the price point.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:35:18 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on February 13, 2019, 09:23:03 pmRaising my hand (EDUX).Also have the power switch occasionally stuck not able to turn the device off. A bizarre mechanical fault.

author: hugo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:44:22 pm
content: QuoteI have scraped the toy (ds1054z) and I got a real oscilloscope (dsox1102g) loud like a refrigerator (double price).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:48:15 pm
content: That's unfortunate. Fan noise is one of those things which make a huge practical difference, even though it's often completely invisible on the specifications sheet.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 03:46:19 am
content: Still no reviews of the thing?I'm also reading that the base model Keysight scopes are made by Rigol. So why the price premium?

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 06:35:45 am
content: @hugo, noted.@Mr. Scram it sometimes gets put in the data sheet, but only when we're trying to make a point. I have heard of some people putting quieter fans in other scopes.@Bud, that is really odd! How often does it happen?@PixieDust The old 1000s may or may not have been third party. The 1000X, however, is different! Our Keysight-only ASICs and everything.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 08:10:07 am
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on February 14, 2019, 06:35:45 amOh I see, yep, the comment I saw was from a while ago. Now things make more sense.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 09:43:43 am
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on February 14, 2019, 06:35:45 amThe 1204 has a temperature-controlled fan - implemented as a linear regulator on the main PCB - this adds cost so clearly KS thought it important.I've not run it long enough to see what power it runs after fully warmed up, but at startup it is very quiet

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 09:45:59 am
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on February 13, 2019, 09:23:03 pmI really can't understand why people get so worked up about caps. A failed cap is a very easy fault to diagnose and fix - if you can't fix that you have no business owning a scope

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 11:23:08 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 14, 2019, 09:45:59 amAnd even then... a good capacitor won't last long in a bad design while a not-so-good capacitor can last a long time in a good design. Either way Keysight won't push out stuff they'll need to fix for free (at least not on purpose).

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 11:40:52 am
content: It seems that Keysight is not using the best power supplies for their scopes and that also has its benefits:I bought a few Agilent dead scopes, including a great 4 Channel DSO7000 series and all it needed was some attention to the power supply. But in each of these cases, it was not a bad capacitor, instead either a resistor or a NTC broke. Actually I never found a bad electrolytic cap in a broken Agilent scope.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 12:09:37 pm
content: Quote from: PixieDust on February 14, 2019, 03:46:19 amSorry - I was goiong to do something but too busy!Basically it's pretty much the same as the 2-channel, with the addition of :2 more channels200MHz max bandwidthBlack caseLANTemp controlled fanSlower bootup at the moment due to Linux - improvements are promised so wait & see before deciding. I'd say it's borderline uncceptable at the moment.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 06:34:47 am
content: @Mike, the firmware update is scheduled for March.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 06:50:34 am
content: @Daniel, at some point in the future I have been planning to add a digital scope of some kind to my lab (Tek 2465B is my main scope, and I all in all prefer the UX of the older Tek scopes...no menus and softkeys to work with, but that's just like...my opinion, man), but I definitely recognize the utility of a modern digital scope for one shot triggering and such. And given that as a hobbyist I can't afford basically any of the stuff that's competitive with the old HP and Tek boat anchors I own, this scope looks intriguing.Is there any possible way for a hobbyist to get a demo unit to try out before sinking $$?

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 07:00:19 am
content: Nice to see but i'm still sticking to my good ol MSO6034AYou can compare features and memory size, but there is one thing that is not found on the spec sheet.ResponsivenessHistorically Agilent scopes always had a lighting responsive UI where almost every button press would happen pretty much on the next 60Hz refresh cycle of the display, including moving the waveform around the screen. I hope they intend to still do this on the new scope.I personally don't find deep memory that useful. Got a scope with 1Gpts of sample memory but never really use it. Most of the time i just set up the trigger to capture what i want rather than scrolling trough a really long waveform. If i want a big picture of whats going on i just zoom on a lower sample rate, the scopes never alias or do weird sampling things so the waveform still is pretty representative in proper intensity grading and all.Okay 1Mpts can feel limiting in certain cases, but going above 10Mpts doesn't really give that much of a benefit.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 07:34:40 am
content: Quote from: Berni on February 15, 2019, 07:00:19 amWe had this discussion before. It all depends what you do. If you are looking into something you exactly know how it looks you don't need lon mem. You just capture part you want to look at and that's it. After all that is what we did for all these years with analog scopes and delay triggering. Also not a problem if you are developing something from the scratch, and you can make something repetitive so you can keep on capturing it left and right until you see all of it. If you are reverse engineering, or looking at something at live system that you have to observe as it is, that it's a different story.But I agree. 10 Mpoints is where things get useful. 1 Mpoint is problematic sometimes. Less is not really useful.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 07:50:57 am
content: For the sort of capture everything and sift trough it afterwards i found the directly USB streaming logic analyzers more useful than a scope.You get effectively infinite memory due to a PC having tons of RAM and uses compression to squeeze it down even further. This lets you record a full minute of activity at full sample rate. And looking trough all that data tends to be more convenient on a PC (Provided the software has a well designed UI)Tho if you want to reverse engineer something like MIPI running at 800Mbit then yeah a fancy scope with deep memory is useful (Tho my scope has a serial decoder for it)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 09:47:47 am
content: Quote from: Berni on February 15, 2019, 07:50:57 amAbsolutely agree. But it's not always decoding. Sometimes it is as simple as PWM on solar charger glitching in certain regime of work..As I said before, I have Keysight 3000T because it is excellent interactive scope, and Picoscope with 512MS memory for longer captures and math. I also found Digital Discovery to be surprisingly useful, despite UI that's not very friendly. It can be used as simple pattern generator, and together with logic analyzer and decoding it was very useful in finding problems in few projects I worked on.USB streaming analyzers are best for long captures. No argue there. Which one do you use, if you don't mind me asking?Regards,Siniša

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 10:11:52 am
content: I use the Saleae logic 16 and have been using the old old original first Saleae Logic (Back when they only made one type).I got the first one for free somewhere way back and i found it really useful so i then bought the newer 16 one (Old one is pretty slow). Yeah the software is a bit basic, but it works well for quickly looking trough waveforms.Because of it the MSO functionality on my scope sits with next to no use. Tho i did use the MSO of my scope for FPGA development because the extra speed is needed and having lots of channels is nice.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 10:17:34 am
content: Quote from: Berni on February 15, 2019, 07:00:19 amThe 1000 series is just as responsive as all the others.I have a 3000T and an R&S RTM3004 on the bench but the Keysight is always the first I go to, primarily because of the responsive UI. The R&S mostly gets used when I need more screen for decodes or high input sensitivity or just another view.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 10:28:19 am
content: Quote from: Berni on February 15, 2019, 10:11:52 amI did use MSO on Keysight few moths ago because I was looking at old instrument LCD protocol (one that has row/column without internal character generator), and I managed to figure out some details by noticing that some bits were flipping in synch with cursor on the screen... Because it was in real time and fast.Tool for the job. Keysight infiniivision scopes are not perfect. But they are the closest thing at the time that gives you that interactive feel of working on analog scope.That, combined with other specialist tools gets the job done.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 10:30:45 am
content: We do have a MSOX3000 at work and i do really like it since its essentially a slightly updated 6000 with a bigger screen, wavegen and slower boot time.Tho what does irk me is that the X3000 has the same buttons on the front panel as the 6000 but they are in different locations. This often results with me hovering my finger in front of the wrong part of the front panel as i frustratingly look for the button i want to press. Oh and having a LED for AC BW 50Ohm next to the channel would be nice to have like it was on the 6000 (Seen lots of confused coworkers due to AC or BW limit being on without them knowing).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 10:39:04 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 15, 2019, 10:17:34 amI agree. I did try R&S scopes (2000/3000) and they felt sluggish, not really slow but not fast either. With 3000T, i can drag waveform left/right on the screen in real time. Not so much with R/S. There is noticeable delay, sort of stuttering. Pretty much same as with Rigol MSO5000, maybe a bit faster, but still noticeable.As I said, Keysight scopes are best scopes as far as interactive goes. Problem is that with very short memory your sampling rate drops off very, very quickly as soon as you go to a bit longer timebase. Sometimes that's not a problem, but sometimes is.Regards,

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 10:45:12 am
content: Quote from: Berni on February 15, 2019, 10:30:45 amLOL that sounds familiar...I personally miss the most physical LED for trigger event.To the point that I connected a low power LED and resistor to trig out and sticking it out in the front.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 11:42:09 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 15, 2019, 10:45:12 amOh that's really tempting. The trig out on my keysight is on the back so I'd need to do something a little more than just putting a LED in a BNC.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 12:40:49 pm
content: Oh nice trick.This is one of the features that the 9000 series had that i wish was on the 6000 and X3000. The 9000 has some white LED illuminated text on the front panel that blinks "Trig'd" or lights up "Wait" when there was no trigger for a second or so.The 9000 also has an area of the front panel dedicated to trigger where it has colored LEDs for channels 1 2 3 4 to show the trigger source, LEDs that show rising/falling/both trigger edge, LED for auto/manual trigger. And best of all each one of these LEDs has a button next to it to toggle the state of those LEDs. This makes setting up the trigger such a breeze.But somewhat ironically the 9000 series of scopes are in all other aspects terrible for quick setup. Its a windows scope that boots slowly (Tho with an SSD it boots just as fast as a X3000), has lots more settings to tweak, slow update rate etc. I would much rather have these nice quick trigger setup buttons and LEDs on the lower end scopes where quick setup is more important.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 02:20:12 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on February 13, 2019, 09:23:03 pmThe PSU actually looks nice.https://youtu.be/9KcOQsVxtoU?t=475

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2019, 02:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on January 18, 1970, 10:35:26 pmI have not used the scope much yet, maybe 20 times , out of which the power switch failed two times. It feels like the pushswitch latching mechanism failing.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2019, 10:10:49 pm
content: Is there going to be a successor for DSOX2000 and DSOX3000 from 2011?

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 06:40:58 am
content: I dunno the X3000 still feels like very modern scope, it even has a touchscreen. All the other low cost scopes ware just playing catch-up to it for a good few years when it was released. Now that they have caught up Keysights low end scope lineup is on par with everyone else.But even when the successor to the X3000 launches i wouldn't expect there to be that much new. I still use a old MSO6000 that is pretty much the predecessor to the X3000 series. The two scopes are very similar in operation, UI and performance. What you get with the X3000 is higher waveform update rate, waveform generator, touchscreen, some modernization, but at the same time the 6000 has 4 times as much waveform memory, 1/5 the boot time, all interfaces available without a add-on module (USB Ethernet GPIB), higher resolution screen etc...The now discontinued MSO6000 series is so old that the predecessor to that still had a CRT screen and carried a Hewlett Packard logo. So id say we have at least 5 years or not more before Keysight would consider updating it.Scopes don't age anywhere near as quick as consumer electronics like TVs

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:43:19 am
content: Well the memory depth on the Keysight scopes is extremely poor. Even compared to their A-brand competitors.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 10:31:32 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2019, 09:43:19 amYeah true in numbers the gap is pretty big. But in practice going from 10K to 1M is a massive difference, but going from 1M to 100M is not. For the ocasonal cases where deep memory is useful one can usually get around it with segmented memory modes.They are one of the rare vendors that keep sample memory inside the ASIC This limits the size of memory but gives it a huge speed advantage. Other scopes slow down when large memory is selected. The Keysight scopes don't even have a option to select less than max memory because the scope keeps running at top speed even when using all of it. This sort of consistent quick speed of both the acquisition and UI is a major selling point of these scopes that is not visible on the spec sheet. I personally really enjoy that it feels like using a analog scope with how instant everything is.All depends on what you want from a scope.

author: nimish
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 08:02:48 pm
content: Hmm...$2000 for a scope that's using decade old tech, when I could get a RTB2002/4 with 10bit and also from a top tier test equipment makerOr 1/2 that to roll the dice on a rigol DSO5000...Who is the target market for this?When is keysight going to invest in a new ASIC or one that can support deep memory?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:17:01 am
content: As other said deep memory is nice but IMHO overrated. The RTB slows down a bit at 1MptsIn a new asic i'd rather like to have less input noise and/or more resolution and/or increased VIDEO resolution to support a bigger displayThat said, the 3000X is STILL an insanely good scope.The amount of options and protocol decoders will be found only in scopes from the copetition that have another zero on the pricetag.The update with the touch screen and zoom trigger and everything was very nice, it was done by someone young enough to understand that a touch screen is not a replacement for a single button mouseThe ARB generator that while it may not satisfy every user's needs it is perfectly integrated with the scope, another case where the user interface was took seriously and done right.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:58:38 am
content: Yes i also think they should up the screen resolution, im used to the 1024x768 of my MSO6000 and yet the X2000/X3000 despite having a much larger screen have less resolution.The noise and resolution is really just ADC/AFE dependent so the price point of the scope puts some limitations on those.What i would want instead are some of the Infiniium series features carried over to the low end scopes. Specifically i would want the FFT and High resolution modes. The FFT on those scopes is run like a spectrum analyzer where you just punch in the center,span,rbw freqency and the scope sets up the optimal acquisition settings to get that. Then the high resolution mode essentially makes the scope a lower bandwidth model using downsampling. In the case of the 9000 series this lets you turn a 20GS/s 4GHz 8bit scope into a 500MHz 12bit scope (or anything in between as you can select 9bit 10bit 11bit 12bit). This downsampling is done in hardware before the sample memory so it lets you capture for longer and doesn't cause any of the weird high res behavior that the X3000 scopes do (Where high res is done after it was captured and shifts about as you change the timebase). Sure its not a real 12bit scope but it really does bring the noise into 12bit territory with the flick of a button without any adverse side effects apart from less samplerate/bandwith. When you need your full bandwidth back just turn it back off.That particular feature was mostly born out of Agilents kneejerk reaction to Lecroys 12bit scopes, but its genuinely a great feature that seamed to have been forgotten now that Keysight developed real 10bit ADCs for scopes.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 09:29:07 am
content: Quote from: Berni on March 11, 2019, 10:31:32 amDoes it really? As far as I know these Megazoom scopes use only a small part of the overall sample memory in a kind of bank switching mode where the scope switches between two small memory blocks (each of a size for enough data to fill the screen) and alternates between them, i.e. while one block is used for sampling the other block gets converted into display data. The only time it uses all available memory is when stop is pressed or when something like zoom is selected.At least that’s what my Infinum DSO8064A seems to be doing, which also has Megazoom but much more memory (128M)

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 10:46:43 am
content: The ping-pong memory is used in most scopes out there, not only Keysight ones. Its just classical double buffering so that the scope can be capturing into one buffer while simultaneously drawing the other buffer to the screen.The Keysight Infinnium scopes do have memory depth selection because they slow down a lot past 1Mpts due to the internal PC being involved in drawing the waveform rather than the ASIC doing all of it. For my particular MSO9000 scope they try to hide this double buffering by allowing the same max capture size for both run and single shot. Its only if you select the 1Gpts setting, then the scope will display a warning that the scope is now limited to single shot mode and that you need to go to 512Mpts for run mode to be available. If you don't have the option license for 1Gpts then you will never see that warning. So if you have a license for 256Mpts it will be 256 both in run or single short mode, but it still drops to 128 when you use more than 2 channels (Again typical scope behavior)Tho so far i have never used that 1Gpts memory depth for anything useful. The scope is still reasonably responsive viewing a waveform at that depth, but the moment you start adding measurements or math channels to it the thing grinds to a halt, literally taking it over a minute in some cases to process the waveform and show results. But it is pretty cool that it can capture 1 full second of continuous trace at 1GS/sThe MSO8000 series still runs the old Infiniium software as far as i know, so it could be different. Still worth picking up a decent old Infiniium tho as a secondary scope, some can be had pretty cheap.EDIT: But i do not recommend using a Agilent PC based scope as your main scope, they are kinda clumsy for doing quick poking around a board.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 01:16:58 pm
content: My DSO8064A doesn’t seem to slow down with more than 1M. It gets slow if I select the full 128M but that’s to be expectedThe Infinum 8000 runs the old XP software but its architecture is different from the 548xx scopes as it doesn’t use two graphic cards with hardware overlay. Apparently the Infinum 8000 is much closer to the 9000 than to the previous scopes.My day to day scope is a Lecroy LT574M but more and more often I use the DSO8064A. If only the tocuhs creen wasn’t that small, without a mouse it’s really hard to use, especially with big hands

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 01:36:55 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on March 11, 2019, 10:31:32 amThe latter is true. For me the lack of deep memory is a deal breaker especially since the actual operational memory on the Keysight scopes is much less than it says on the badge. Sure you can make do with segments but even then you'll need a certain amount of oversampling for decode to keep working. On a scope with deep memory you can choose to use a short acquisition memory setting if you want a high update rate. On the lower end Keysight scopes there is no option to get lots of memory if you need it.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 05:37:40 pm
content: Well i don't know about the speeds of the Agilent MSO8000 series, but the MSO9000 is a lot faster running at Kilosamples of memory compared to Megasamples. What i consider fast on a 9000 is having a handful of acquisitions per LCD refresh period. In Megasample capture length that turns around to a hanful of LCD refresh periods per acquisition. And i still consider all of that slow when im used to the consistent lightning speed of a MSO6000.So far i haven't seen the perfect scope that hits all the upsides in one scope, just like i have yet to find the perfect handheld multimeter. So for my needs i use a combination of a MSO6000 (Super fast, reasonable performance, great for day to day tasks and poking around) and MSO9000 (Much higher performance and broader feature set, used for the more serious measurements)The speed of Keysight scopes you only really appreciate when you used one for a while and then go to a different scope. Much like 30fps video looks just fine until you watch 60fps video for a while and get used to it and then watch something 30 fps again. Im not saying other scopes are slow, just that they are not quite as quick as Keysights (Its the subtle differences mesured in 10s of miliseconds). I'm not a Keysight fanboy or anythyng, its just that i happened to end up with two scopes and got used to it. Scopes are expensive so i can't exactly keep 5 of them around from different vendors.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 01:08:42 pm
content: Maybe kb memory feels faster on the Infinum 9000 probably because it samples with 10(?) Gsps while Infinum 8000 samples with 4 Gsps?My Infinum 8000 feels fast which is nice. If only the touchscreen was a bit biggerMy Lecroy LT374M a low waveform rate but it has great triggers which I find more important. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if a scope is blind 98% of the time or “just” 82% because it will still be blind for most of the time. Good triggers find problems at their first occurrence

author: KC0PPH
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 10:02:01 pm
content: Can you Hack the 1204G to 200Mhz and Full Options?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 09:30:49 pm
content: Are there some Easter Eggs on Keysight DSOX1000 series scopes? Like the easter eggs on DSOX2000 (Trek screensaver, Etch-a-scope, jumping letters)

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 09:58:27 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 26, 2019, 09:30:49 pmYes, the LOST Easter Egg on the 2+1 channel scopes:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/time-travelling-on-my-keysight-edux1002g/msg1280254/#msg1280254

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 10:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 26, 2019, 09:30:49 pmMy mate at work has this scope. There are jumping letters and TREK easter eggs. I could not find theEtch-a-scopeEaster Egg.

author: extide
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 01:47:20 am
content: Does anyone know what the default password is to Login to the Scope's web interface over LAN ?

author: kerpal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 01:06:56 pm
content: A LAN Reset should put it at "no password" mode, no?

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 08:52:03 pm
content: Quote from: Calvin on February 13, 2019, 09:29:07 amOld thread, but I can not see how you fail to see the difference between a KS scope (professional design) and GW (toy like design, even if good scopes)?Are you blind man?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 08:57:35 pm
content: Quote from: martinot on July 10, 2020, 08:52:03 pmA few minutes ago you were calling another member "dishonest", now you come to a 1-year old thread to call another one "blind"?Why don't you go play with your non-toy KS and stop calling names to other members? Or did the playground close for the weekend?

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 09:32:51 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2019, 10:23:31 amI agree that interactivity and snappiness are the strongest point of the KS scopes, and that low memory are there weakest point (do not argue with that).Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2019, 10:23:31 amI think you exaggerate way too much.Fact: The new KS budget 1200-series has exactly half the memory of your, many times more expensive, 3000-series scope.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2019, 10:23:31 amI agree that waveform update rate is a really important factor to miss less information. The KS 3000-series is absolutely fantastic with it's 1 million updates/sec, but it is way to expensive for me.How do the other scopes which you recommend perform?The RS&S 2000-series (which I really like and consider buying myself); up to 50 000 waveforms/s.Siglent 1000X-E; Waveform capture rate up to 100,000 wfm/s (normal mode)GDS-2000E Series; Waveform Update Rate of 120,000 wfm/sKS DSO-1200-series; 200,000 waveforms/secThe only one beating them all is the new Rigol 5000-series (with up to 500 000 wfm/s, with some debates)

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 09:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: TK on February 13, 2019, 11:30:47 amI have yet not tested the serial decoding myself, but from the manual and fact sheet for the 1200-series it has pictures at least of a list display in the serial decoding.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 09:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: martinot on July 10, 2020, 09:38:19 pmMy post is 1.5 years old. Now KS 1200X series serial decoding includes list display

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 09:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: w4tch0 on February 13, 2019, 01:24:05 pmWhat caps do you have in Rigol och Siglents?The fan of the 1202G I have tested is quite quiet (compared to other scopes and measurement/lab equipment)!If you measure the dB of yours we can compare with mine? Perhaps you can get it exchanged if yours louder than normal/other KS scopes.What is your serial number (might be dependent if it was an early or first batch version)?If you do want to give it in public, you can leave out the last digit (or you can PM me if you prefer, and we can compare with the one I test)?How many dB is it compared to the same type of scopes from Siglent or Rigol?

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 10:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 15, 2019, 10:45:12 amI like that idea. Creative!

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 10:30:22 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 10, 2020, 08:57:35 pmSeriously?Please tell me if your think they look the same:

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 09:11:33 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on February 15, 2019, 02:20:12 pmAlso, people think of Aishi capacitors as low grade, but they are one of the best non-Japanese capacitor manufacturers there.On a well designed flyback SMPS the ripple current through those output capacitors will be small, as the switching frequency is quite high nowadays (likely 150kHz or above)

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 01:50:31 pm
content: It's been quiet on the threat for a while, but as this seems the most general threat on the Keysight InfiniiVision 1200 X-Series and EDUX1052A/G oscilloscopes, let me post some question...When using the FFT mode, the manual (Fourth edition, September 2021, p. 61) explains:FFT units will be displayed in dBV when channel units is set to Volts and channel impedance is set to 1 MΩ.FFT units will be displayed in dBm when channel units is set to Volts and channel impedance is set to 50Ω.The issue is that the channel impedance on this scope cannot be set to 50Ω. Is this an error in the manual (and this piece of text was copied from a more sophisticated Keysight scope)?PS some of my other oscilloscopes allow dBm display in FFT mode and thereby either assume there is an external 50Ω load (Rohde & Schwarz RTB2004), or allow you to set the value of the external load (Siglent SDS2000X Plus). But on the DSOX, I cannot get it to display dBm at all (and if I would, it's not clear what impedance it is assuming).