FS: LeCroy LC584AM 1GHz 8GS/s 4-Ch Oscilloscope  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: internet_oscilloscopes
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 10:28:30 pm
content: Good Afternoon. I am new to this community and unsure of what the official rules are on this forum for posting ebay listings. I don't want to violate any of the terms so I ask that if any moderators find this post to be in violation of the rules, please shoot me a message and let me know what I did wrong before banning me. I know that the last proprietor of our ebay store had issues with this forum.I manage the ebay stores for Teledyne LeCroy. Teledyne LeCroy is a leading manufacturer of test and measurement equipment. Most of our business is oscilloscopes however we also sell protocol solutions and critical valve test solutions. We have undertaken the initiative of starting an ebay store to sell off our older assets and used equipment from the service department. The EEV Community will find it interesting to know when cheaper test equipment gets listed in our store so they can attack their various home projects and hobby projects with an affordable tool set.If anyone requires proof of identity from me please don't hesitate to ask. I just wanted to introduce myself and point any interested people to our stores (in time for holiday discounts). The first store contains used equipment from a variety of manufacturers in various working conditions. The second store is our certified pre-owned outlet - only current LeCroy products, sold with factory warranty and standard accessories as well as calibration. Enjoy!http://stores.ebay.com/Teledyne-LeCroyhttp://stores.ebay.com/Teledyne-LeCroy-Certified-Pre-ownedhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/152818971222- The LC584AM!Best Regards,Jon

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 11:01:47 pm
content: Well,I have a message to you and LeCroy... It doesn't ship to nowhere except USA..If LeCroy would setup used equipment shop on E-Bay based in Europe and shipping to Europe, they would sell many of these..And no, importing is no option, it easily doubles the price... And is pain...I asked LeCroy representative if they had any demo and or used units to sell.. They told me no , what in whole Europe they have none ?..And I left card to a guy on LeCroy booth on Productronica to find out if they can sell me one direct from LeCroy EU...They didn't even bother to send me "sorry no"...It's such a shame, good scopes, zero interest to actually sell anything for less than 20000 USD....And your E-Bay shop is no help either...Sorry about rant...Still, good news for our USA friends..

author: internet_oscilloscopes
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 11:11:17 pm
content: Hi,I'm sorry to hear that our representative didn't get back to you. The truth is that we certainly have demo units in the EU and are starting to list those items in our ebay stores in 2018.Our certified pre-owned store (CPO Store) currently ships internationally. We receive orders from EU and are happy to ship to most international customers provided that they don't show up on our denied party list.In 2018 items which are shipping FROM the EU will be marked as such so that customers know how the duty/tariffs will effect the transaction. They will be listed in the same store for convenience, having 4 ebay stores for one company is inefficient and confusing. Please keep an eye open in the coming weeks. What items specifically are you looking for?Regards,Jon

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 11:17:10 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 21, 2017, 11:01:47 pmI noticed that too and wondered why that is the case. Ebay has the Global Shipping Program which makes it easy to ship globally for a seller, secondly their shipping rates are really good and thirdly the VAT is already paid so the items go through customs fast.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 11:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: internet_oscilloscopes on December 21, 2017, 11:11:17 pmWell , first, thank you for being a professional.Second, that is a very good news.. I will be keeping my eyes open..I plan to buy a scope in 2018.Regards,Sinisa

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 12:55:36 am
content: Be aware though that Lecroy scopes don't have peak detect (except for some very old models) which makes them less suitable as a daily use bench scope.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 01:58:41 am
content: Thank you for the heads up on the eBay store! I bookmarked it.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 03:25:57 am
content: That LC584 is a great scope and the price is set to move! If I didn't already have a 9374C I'd get it!The LC584 is superior to almost every other 1ghz Lecroy scope of that era because it has a color display, about 4x more sample memory than the other ones, and 4x the acquisition rate.All software options for these scopes have now been given away by Lecroy in the firm of a GAL you can burn and fit inside. Check the Lecroy yahoo group.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 07:36:52 am
content: QuoteI've used the GSP as a seller and you are right - it is dead easy. However, perhaps the issue is not so much with sending kit as how to get it back if it's a return. If the buyer alleges it's a DOA or has some other rejectable defect, it is the seller's problem to pay and arrange return, which would be a massive pain from foreign parts. You could end up just giving it away for nowt as the cheaper option, and once buyers cotton on to that...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 09:53:35 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 21, 2017, 11:17:10 pmUnfortunately, the Global Shipping Program is a pain if you can usually recover VAT. Its terms and conditions stipulate it's only for end consumers and eBay therefore won't allow you or help you recover the VAT. That adds a large percentage to whatever you're paying.I've gone through the trouble of specifically requesting not to use the Global Shipping Program and paying more for shipping because of this, as it ends up being cheaper.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 10:34:07 am
content: What Mr Scram said..I buy for company and it not good for that. In EU, seller makes me VAT exempt invoice and that's it.Also no import duty, fees, and all that..

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 10:49:45 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 22, 2017, 10:34:07 amI don't mind paying VAT as much if I can recover it afterwards, like is the case with importing it yourself and not going through the Global Shipping Program. Obviously it would be better to buy from within the EU to begin with, as it als eliminates delays and additional fees.Some of the offerings actually look quite interesting.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 11:13:23 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 22, 2017, 09:53:35 amThat has never stopped me from recovering the VAT. The bill you get states exactly which part of the total amount is handling and which part is VAT.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 11:30:35 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 22, 2017, 11:13:23 amLast time I didn't get a bill. When I requested one they told me I couldn't recover VAT. They did provide the bill, though, so I guess you could do it anyway. Is that how you do it?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 02:35:11 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 22, 2017, 11:30:35 amI don't see how you can't recover the VAT if you have a bill which states the VAT so yes.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2017, 01:04:34 am
content: You just moved LeCroy scopes way up on my want list.I'd like to suggest providing calibrations as a purchase option. Getting that from the OEM on used gear would be hugely attractive. A big issue I have with used gear on eBay is "What am I buying?". Joe Tech may or may not be qualified and equipped to do a cal or function test.

author: nicklinn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2017, 04:25:37 am
content: Wow some great deals. Too bad you don't ship to Canada.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 07:21:16 pm
content: Unless something’s changed recently, I also can’t figure out a way to reclaim VAT on GSP items. There is a separate Pitney Bowes invoice, for the shipping and taxes. In order to be able to reclaim VAT I need a UK VAT number to offset it against, and that’s never been supplied to me.As with another poster on this thread, when I queried this with eBay they said it’s not designed for this, although frankly I think it was on the too-hard page of the operative’s script.One further thing about GSP is that it is glacially slow and error prone, with packages stuck in Kentucky for days. I’ve also had re-labelled items going to the wrong recipient, and packages returned to the seller before they’ve even left Kentucky.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 07:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on December 25, 2017, 07:21:16 pmI have heard this (that you can't reclaim VAT if a US seller uses GSP) but surely anyone who is charging you VAT in the UKhas, by law to be able to give you their VAT number?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 07:32:52 pm
content: From Pitney Bowes website:What should customers in Europe expect about VAT charges?Merchandise that is available through the Global Shipping Program is only for personal use or consumption by the designated recipient and is not for commercial resale. Therefore import VAT incurred on the purchase of goods for non-business purposes cannot be reclaimed or recovered.So no, you can't reclaim it... If you did claim it and it was accepted, it was bookkeeping error..

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 08:52:59 pm
content: Quote from: internet_oscilloscopes on December 21, 2017, 11:11:17 pmBring that nice scope shown in the first message in EU, make it 999EUR and it fly away in seconds (but PM first.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 09:11:58 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 25, 2017, 07:32:52 pmIt is much better to refer to local laws concerning VAT than a generic statement on a website. For the NL the statement you quoted above simply isn't true.@grumpydoc: Pitney Bowes has a UK based VAT number. You can look it up online.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 09:21:13 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 25, 2017, 09:11:58 pmThat is from a local UK site.. It it true there..And in Croatia, there is difference between importing it as private person and company. If exporter doesn't export it through proper procedure for a company, you cannot import it as a company at all and VAT is least of your problems. So it depends on EU country (you are correct), but depending of the country, exporting side can also make life difficult for you..

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 12:27:48 am
content: QuoteWho said anything about resale? I've got stuff I paid VAT on and then reclaimed, and until the company goes into administration it's not going to be sold on. If you like, it is for consumption by the designated recipient (i.e. the company).I think there are two possibilities here: dealing with VAT invoices is just too onerous for them, or they are running a scam of some kind.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 12:58:05 am
content: I'm not saying it's impossible for them to do it. They simply won't do it.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 01:06:15 am
content: I don't disbelieve you - just saying their excuse is rubbish

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 01:10:30 am
content: And I agree...

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 02:37:54 am
content: "We do not accept non-US based PayPal Accounts""For export control reasons, we are not able to ship to a freight forwarding company"That is a fail.Seriously, why is this even difficult. LeCroy makes the stuff and should know all about its own products, and should know exactly what the requirements are to export them.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 03:42:11 am
content: Give them a break. They *do* have to deal with the US ITAR rules. It's a field of land mines as far as the eye can see.An American army colonel met some Japanese officers with whom he became friends. They found it difficult to obtain reflex optical sights such as are widely used by the military and US civilians. The colonel bought three and shipped them to Japan. He's now doing hard time at a federal prison for violating ITAR regulations. :-(The major gun parts houses like Sarco will not ship magazines out of the country even if they are museum pieces.Just look at what you have to go through to order an MSP430 LaunchpPad from TI.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 04:29:43 am
content: Yes of course they must obey the rules of the country. That was not the point however.The point I was making is that they obviously know these scopes inside out, and will happily ship them outside the US if I order a new one.Unlike some random person selling a second hand one who doesn't have a clue what is inside the thing and so will probably get something wrong though ignorance.These guys actually know how to do it right, so why don't they?I have ordered many parts from the US, probably have a MSP430 here somewhere, and it isn't a big deal. Yes, it is stupid, but no it is not difficult.

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 06:25:47 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on December 21, 2017, 11:01:47 pmOn the German LeCroy page you can see the models they currently have on discount:http://teledynelecroy.com/germany/promotions/promotions.aspxSo surely, the guy was simply not interested in making business with you for whatever reason.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 09:44:06 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 25, 2017, 09:11:58 pmI'm not sure that is "good enough" - a VAT invoice should be available (if not routinely then on request) for any transaction on which VAT is charged specifying the VAT number pertinent to that transaction.I'm not sure of the legality of that statement in the UK either - in any case business v personal should be immaterial to Pitney Bowes - certainly from the point of view of VAT. They collect it and pay it to HMG. If, later, someone claims that VAT back from HMG it does not affect PB - unless, of course, they are collecting it butnotpaying it to HMG.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 12:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on December 26, 2017, 09:44:06 amPerhaps (I'm really guessing here) the statement on PB's website is to show that they are importing for consumers only because IF they would be importing large quatities of the same piece of equipment they might become responsible for things like CE compliance.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 01:03:39 pm
content: They're not importing anything per se, are they? They are acting as shippers.But, having said that, /someone/ is the importer. Usually, for single-item transactions it is the buyer and I don't really see how this should be different merely because PB has some deal with Ebay. But I haven't looked into how the GSP thing works in any detail other than noticing the price of kit I'm interested in

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 01:42:33 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on December 26, 2017, 12:27:48 amI'm suspecting there's some sort of tax benefit for eBay doing it this way. We have to remember these are the kind of companies skilled in bookkeeping gymnastics and if they can save 0,001% it adds up to a huge number. I don't they care much that customers are stuck footing the bill.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 02:14:18 pm
content: It may not just be tax benefit. Distance selling rules are different for B2B than for consumers, though if that were the case here I'd expect them to prefer business customers on account of there being less comeback available. As you say, some accountant is probably earning their keep.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 03:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on December 26, 2017, 02:14:18 pmIndeed, from the POV of CE certification (as mentioned above) you'd assume that business customers would be easier for them as well.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 03:43:00 pm
content: Reading the eBay GSP Buyer terms and conditions is always a giggle:"Non-Commercial Use. Any GSP Item that you purchase must be for the personal use or consumption of the designated recipient and not for commercial resale purposes. In addition, if you reside in a member state of the European Union and are importing the GSP Item from the United States, your purchase of the GSP Item must be for non-business purposes. In the European Union,import VAT incurred on the purchase of goods for non-business purposes cannot be reclaimed or recovered by the Buyer."Of course PB are thieves and it's all a fraud. They collect the VAT and pocket it. They consolidate the shipments and declare them all as 'Tractor parts' or some other commodity which attracts a zero 0% VAT rate and avoid paying anything to HMCE on your behalf.What's even more amazing is that if they fuck up you're still the one liable for any REAL VAT and customs duties HMCE want to try and recover from you:"Exclusions.You alone are responsible for any customs duties, taxes, surcharges, fines, penalties, or other charges which may be imposed on you by customs or tax officials after a GSP Item has successfully cleared customs and been deliveredto (or made available for pickup at) the delivery address specified by you or the collection center near you that is designated by Pitney Bowes."

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 05:36:45 pm
content: I think a non-business consumer in the UK can reclaim VAT. For instance, my not-quite-sister-in-law lives abroad and can reclaim VAT on stuff she buys here to take and use abroad. It is surely not up to PB whether or not a customer can claim this stuff.