Is this electrical engineering  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: rescue341
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 06:18:33 am
content: Hey allI'm starting a associates of applied science program. The program track is called industrial electronic specialty. course include things involving PCB components and device applications. Would this fall in to electrical engineering or something else?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 06:37:23 am
content: That "description" sounds like a random string of technical words.Do you have a link to the school's information? (Like the list of courses, etc.)

author: rescue341
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 07:01:40 am
content: http://www.mecc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/AAS-Computerized-Manufacturing-Technology-Industrial-Electronics-Specilization.pdf

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 07:47:14 am
content: From the pdf it states that "Job titles for graduates include electronic technician, electronic equipment repairer, quality assurance technician, computer repair technician, process control technician, engineering technician and manufacturing technician. " Seems that one going through this would be given the title of technician rather than engineer.From what I understand, the coursework required for a technician covers what a typical electrical engineer would do but is limited in what an electrical engineer could do. That is, the depth of the material that is covered is good but the breadth of knowledge (when compared to a typical engineer) is limited.

author: Kappes Buur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 07:58:31 am
content: My impression of the course material is that of a pre-requisite for an electrical engineer.See the free MIT coursehttps://6002x.mitx.mit.edufor what would be required of an electrical engineer.Also, seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/msg587685/#msg587685.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 09:13:06 am
content: Quote from: rescue341 on January 02, 2017, 06:18:33 amIf you are thinking of using this as a stepping stone to an engineering degree, find out if if any/all/which exactly of the credits are transferable to a four year degree college /university. Before you pay tuition.This information should exist in a piece of paper somewhere, not as a voice over the phone saying "Sure, sure".

author: rescue341
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 09:49:11 am
content: Thanks for all the answers guysMy big concern was if i could use this as a step stone or if this was road leading to somewhere i didn't want to go. I met with my college advisor the other day and when i said i was interested in this program. She said "huh, you know i never have put anyone in this program....i dont anything about it". This gave me zero confidence in her answers to my qustions and the program director was already out for holiday. So I said i would like to do some research and speak to the director before handing over any money. From the answers iv have gotten. It seems this program might be a good starting point for me

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 03:03:18 pm
content: I suppose it is what you make out of it. I haven't met a tech since 1975 that knew anything. I've had to hire a number of techs since then and have used a simple test of 20 questions. Simple stuff with 4 multiple choice answers, a transistor driving a LED with all voltages shown, voltage on a resistor and figure the current. Two answers were way out there, another way wrong but not absurd. A chimp should statistically get a 25% score, I would hire a guy if he got a 38. I had to give partial credit if they didn't choose the two worst answers. Some would run out of the building. I don't know what they are teaching in these courses other than what end of the screwdriver to hold.I learned electronics by just reading, there was no internet. Had my first job repairing electronic organs at 15. So even with the worst instruction you could learn a lot. I think getting a tech degree is more of a holding pattern if you want to go further. I took Engineering Science at a community college that was a feeder school to another college I was accepted at. A state scholarship would pay all tuition if I want to a state school. Employers only look at your final degree. Choosing a curriculum like this would allow you to go onto further education. You can pick up electronics on your own to become a tech. With a two year pre engineering degree it will be easy to get a tech job after two years or decide to go further with your education.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 04:00:38 pm
content: Quote from: Seekonk on January 02, 2017, 03:03:18 pmYes, at that education level you only learn generic stuff. I studied 2 years of computer science and my major was programming. What I learned during that 2 years was only about generic software, operating systems, and how to use them etc...only the absolute basics of programming was taught. With that education alone I could not start looking for a job. Though it allowed me to get basic stuff like databases and user interfaces to work, the quality of code I could produce back then was terrible. But it was a good stepping stone to become a specialist or even go to university and get a masters degree in computer science.If you currently lack the mathemathical skills required for engineering studies at a university, then that 2 year course could help you get where you want. I have no idea what education stuff you have in the US, I only know what Universities can provide you over there. If you are absolutely certain you want to become an EE and you can get into an University, I'd highly recommend that for you. But its 4-6 years and a lot of money.This is how stuff work in Finland, if I am totally wrong about how things work in the US, then please correct me.You could study through open university, then you only pay for the books you buy, for the tests and once you have enough points, you could get officially into the university to complete your studies.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 05:34:33 pm
content: It's an Associate Degree and, all in, it doesn't compare to the first 2 years of an EE program. It looks to me like it is aimed at entry level technicians and it doesn't appear to provide ANY of the requirements for a 4 year program. It seems to be a technician program, like auto mechanics, and that's about it.Here is a more typical course catalog.http://catalog.pacific.edu/general/schoolofengineeringandcomputerscience/departmentofelectricalandcomputerengineering/#majortextThe Electrical Engineering program starts about half way down the page. The program requires 152 units (mine only required 141 units in '73) and at a rate of 30 units per year, the program will take at least 5 years. I'm not sure if there is a condensed summer session, I don't think so.Notice the Math content. To meet the 30 unit requirement all 4 math courses will be required. And that assumes the student took Precalc in HS and that is not a good assumption. So, add in a little more time to take the prerequisites of Calculus. Maybe a year at a community college.In my view, the topic program provides little in the way of a stepping stone to EE other than spending quality time behind a small desk and not falling asleep. Those are necessary skills, to be sure, but a full on EE program is a lot different.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 06:17:00 pm
content: That was exactly how I thought it would be. Glad you cleared that one up!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 07:20:09 pm
content: I made a good living off my BSEE and MSEE and I've been retired for 13 years, living well. No complaints at all!HOWEVER, before you consider Electrical or Electronics Engineering, make sure you know why. Electronics was always a hobby for me, I did electrical (power) for a living. Not at all similar... Most of what I did was based on my being a Journeyman Electrician while working my way through college. It was about my trade skills, not Laplace Transforms. It just HAPPENED to work out. Nothing was planned...If you want to become an EE to get a job, you need to rethink that idea right now. The long term outlook for EEs sucks!https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htmBoring as it is, Software Engineering is the way to go:https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htmSpend a lot of time at this site. Look at the State data where they break down WHERE these new jobs will be located (San Jose) and how much it pays in various locations.It might be pretty easy to be 1 of 186,000 new employees in Software Engineering. If your working as a EE, it will also be pretty easy to be one of the 100 losses.Just a suggestion...

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 08:30:34 pm
content: Two questions came to mind while reading your post:Does a future employer knows which skillset you aquired with this degree?Does this program lead towards your desired job/education?To me this program sounds like a very basic technician degree. More like the parts swapping type of repair-technician.Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want to do or if you benefit from this degree for your future education.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 08:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 02, 2017, 07:20:09 pmYou are right, a lot of software engineers are needed.BUT, software engineering is something that also require you to be quite good at software development. While both focus on same project, they are very different. A really good software engineer is also a very good software developer. Software development in turn is something you either are good at or you are not. Yes almost anyone can become an average developer, but today there is so much crap code spit out on the market, it's crazy. All because software engineers don't understand the developers, they draw beautiful flowcharts that are near to impossible to implement in a decent way, and the developers are just average in their skills, spitting out a huge amount of spaghetti code.Of course there are a lot of code wizards and great teams too, which know what they're doing.Today it's all about money and quality comes second. That drives me nuts!Hence the reason for my rant.

author: rescue341
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 09:06:28 pm
content: Thanks for all the great post guys!I starting to reconsider this program. Unfortunately im stuck as this college for the time becuase its the only one i can get FinAide to pay for completely and the need to move to a skill thats not emergency services ( what ive been in sine I was 15) I was originally going to go in to the cyber security program becuase I do enjoy working with computers and $20,000 upfront to agree to work for the gov isnt something to shake a stick at. But im more of a physical tinkerer. I like jerry rigging and playing around with boards and cant see a enjoyable life looking at 1's and 0's all day. I meet with the director tomorrow I guess i'll have to have a decession then

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 09:08:44 pm
content: There is nothing implied about skills in the BLS Handbook. There are median and mean salaries given and one can suppose capability is all over the map. Even a poor Software Engineer is going to make well over $100k in San Jose. A really good SE may make twice that much. One can suppose a Bell Curve for both skills and income. Income will, of course, be related to the local cost of living.There are, proportionally, just as many bad hardware engineers as there are software engineers. The only reason software engineers get more bad press is that there are more of them.Software Engineering is treated separately from Computer Programming which doesn't take as much education nor does it pay as well. Truly, code wienies are a dime a dozen. Designing large systems is hard work!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 09:18:30 pm
content: Quote from: rescue341 on January 02, 2017, 09:06:28 pmTake the Government Plan! They pay for everything and they GUARANTEE you a job! Jobs are important...I don't know but I suspect that much of the work in cyber security is done on isolated systems. One might envision setting up a small network of a couple of machines, a router, some kind of firewall and then hammering it to see if a client can get at the server. They certainly won't do this kind of thing with a live network. There could be a good deal of 'tinkering' involved with cyber security. It won't be hardware eningeering but who cares about HE? Jobs don't exist for HEs and the outlook is not too good.Here's another idea: I have been an electronics hobbyist all my life. Even my degrees are more for my hobby than my employment. Go for the Government Plan, take the job and buy yourself all the electronics toys you want for your hobby.When I started working in Aerospace ('69), I was just an Industrial Electrician. I made good money but I hadn't start EE school. I was installing a lot of very large numerical control machine tools and they fascinated me. Yes, I knew how to wire them up. But anything with multiple hundreds of horsepower cutting huge planks for the keel of the C5A was something I had never seen. I went to college strictly to learn how the electronics worked. A hobby. I wanted to understand how a 1" paper tape could cut a 5 axis Dairy Cone from a solid block of aluminum. It was curiosity. After a couple of years I pretty much had that under control. But electronics has always been a hobby. I made my living in electrical.There is no reason not to take the guaranteed program and make a decent living.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 09:56:31 pm
content: Yes don't dismiss the government plan easily.Ask them about your career prospects there. Depending on who you work for and which department you work at, there can be quite some electrical engineering involved.Think about:- the various electronic security systems around, often custom build.- the guys designing and maintaining equipment to splice our communication lines.- penetration testing is not always just software based!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 10:35:21 pm
content: The quality of the training offered by the kinds of private for profit colleges that target young people looking for certification of some kind at the entry level is often questionable.Make sure the courses they offer transfer well, that the classes are transferable credit to your state's public four year universities. (Ask the universities' admission department staff what they think of this school and its programs, and if credits earned in their courses are transferable.)Otherwise you're likely going to be spending money for training you cant apply towards a four year degree. Which will make it harder later on.You would likely be better off teaching yourself more, in other words, getting more knowledge on your own, first, then going back to school after a year in a track more suited to transferring into a four year engineering program. Make sure you are up to the math. You can do math review on your own if you are focused.Don't take out loans to go to a questionable tech school without transferable credit.That not going to be as helpful as self training if you are incurring debt.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 10:42:56 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on January 02, 2017, 10:35:21 pmI have to equate Pre-Calculus Self-Taught with Brain Surgery Self-Taught. It's a very difficult course and is assumed to have been completed in high school. Maybe it can be done by candle light (Lincoln reference) but I'm not so sure. And this is a prerequisite to thefirstengineering mathematics course, Calculus. I don't see it happening!In fact, I'm not sure I see any of theengineeringlevel classes as being self-taught. Maybe following along with the MIT program is possible but, even there, math is assumed.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 11:01:45 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on January 02, 2017, 10:35:21 pmMountain Empire Community College is just that, a member of the Virginia Community College System. It seems a little more expensive than what we have in California but that's just a detail. First and foremost, it is a State school, not a for-profit.What is more worrisome:QuoteFirst of all, the graduation rate is low. Less than 1/3 of people graduate from a 2 year community college. Our local CC seems to graduate about 58%Second, and more regrettalbe, "Average salary after attending undergrad: $22,000! That's far less than the newly proposed minimum wage!I'm not sure what to make of the "Average annual cost for students receiving federal aid:". The numbers don't seem to make sense with the In State Tuition. It may have to do with room and board.I got the quotes in a sidebar to the Google search for "mountain empire community college" I haven't found it on their website.ETA: To be fair, that average salary applies across all programs. Some programs will pay better than others.