Job vs Degree - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: blueskull
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:05:03 am
content: Hi all,I got a PhD opportunity today, and a (highly possible) TI on site interview offer weeks ago. If you were me, which one would you choose?Personally I prefer to get a job and hard cash as soon as possible, but a PhD will make more money later, and my family and friends all support me to go for a PhD. Kinda dilemma.Of course, the PhD itself is free, GSSP (graduate student supporting plan) covers all its cost plus my living allowance and pocket money.Thanks for advices,Bo

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:18:11 am
content: I'd go for the PhD. Every now and then I wish I didn't stop at the bachelor level. Doing only one or two years and not getting a diploma could also be worth it. Spending time on learning something is never wasted.

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:37:12 am
content: If you know what kind of work you want to be doing, then find someone who is in that field now and find out if that kind of job experience at TI or a PhD is the better way to get there. "hard cash" should not be the reason to make a decision like this!

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:40:18 am
content: I appreciate the desire to earn some hard cash, especially if you've just spent a few years being a (poor ?) student. But the novelty will not last long.PhD opportunities tend to diminish as you move away from academia, and as you get older, so given this:Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 12:05:03 amand especially this:Quotewhat's to think about? Provided you can find a suitable subject/placement it has to be the PhD option.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:24:16 am
content: This is true in the UK, but I can't say for the rest of the world.When I worked in HP Labs, including doing recruiting, we came to the conclusion that there were many invalid reasons for doing a PhD, and one valid reason.Invalid reasons included increased pay, better job prospects, and similar. The core point about a PhD is that it you become extremely specialised in a narrow field. If (and while) a company wants that expertise, then a PhD will help you get a better job. Other than that it can actually be a negative point in that you can be perceived as overqualified and you won't have been earning as much as an "employed person". Having said that, there used to be some jobs (e.g. in the Scientific Civil Service) where a PhD was necessary for advancement beyond a certain level.The valid reason was, unsurprisingly, "because I wanted to".

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:36:01 am
content: QuoteIt goes with everything and never goes out of style.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:53:12 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 12:05:03 amNot necessarily.And you might hate the role you end up in.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:58:39 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 07, 2015, 01:53:12 amSome companies may not want to hire a PhD because of the money it may cost them, where as they may hire you for the same job with just a masters degree.It depends on what work you may be doing. PhD's are very useful in academics, research related roles, leading a department of employees, or maybe in senior management of a technology company.However leading a department of employees means they would probably want you to have management experience as well. In the US, many PhD's at the university level may never break $100k.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 02:07:41 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 12:05:03 amIn that case do the PhD!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 02:12:14 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 07, 2015, 01:58:39 amThe good thing about higher qualifications is you can always leave them off your resume if you think it will hinder you.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 02:39:33 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 02:24:23 amDo you get fries with that?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 02:53:31 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 12:05:03 amyou're doing it for the wrong reason. And forget this story about PHD making more money. In most cases they don't.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 02:54:33 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 02:24:23 ami dont want to be a party popper but getting a PhD will make you overqualified for most M.S. level jobs. I cant speak for the entire country, but this was definitely the norm where I have worked in my career. Moreover, I would be very careful to "just leave the PhD" from job applications; all the applications I have seen use the term "highest degree earned" and if you leave your phd off it than you are lying and while it may or may not be caught at the background check level; its definitely the risk you dont want to take.So my suggestion is that you google the scenarios I have described and be absolutely sure that phd is indeed what you want before taking the plunge.At my old school; most folks only went for phd when they weren't able to find a job right away; and all the phds I know have had a hard time finding jobs.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 03:01:35 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on November 07, 2015, 02:53:31 amExactly. Everyone of my former classmates, except one, who went for phd after M.S. earns the same as me or less after losing valuable years at measly grad school stipend of 20-25k; so all in all, they actually lost money.Its no accident that these days the folks pursuing phd at most schools in my area are overwhelmingly foreign nationals who didnt want to go back after completing their OPT time and couldnt find H1 sponsor or didnt get qualified in H1 lottery. I could understand their decision in that scenario; but turning down a job to go for phd makes no sense.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 03:03:00 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on November 07, 2015, 02:53:31 amAgreed, outside of education I've not seen any benefit, and in education you'll make less money.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 03:10:49 am
content: I agree with go for PhD for you..For me,several year ago I ask my self many time,what PhD is for?:1. The title and the pride?2. For the knowledge?3. For better salary?4. Access to the high end and full equip lab?Since i'm not live in first world country it's a waste of time,

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 04:10:28 am
content: There are two valid reasons for getting the PhD. One has two branches - you want to because a. personal reasons, b. a specific job that you want requires it. The other reason is that you will learn something. I find that in general, school is a slower learning experience than studying on your own, but when you are studying on your own you learn what you fancy or what you need to do your current task. In school I learned things I didn't even know to look for, and things that turned out to be useful years later. Those items were ample payback for the hours trudging through things I could have learned in far less time in another environment, or already knew.Higher pay? The statistics still say that on average PhDs earn more over a career than those with lesser degrees, but the variance is high. A PhD is certainly not a guarantee of higher pay.

author: logictom
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 04:27:06 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 07, 2015, 04:10:28 amOr an interview, a lot of the engineers I've worked with disregard PhDs as they're usually too academic. This will obviously vary on a company basis, I've always worked for hands on companies. When we did employ a PhD he was out the door within a month, he would write about 3 documents on the work he was supposed to do then not actually do the work - all he knew how to do was write papers and documentation

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 07:10:28 am
content: Ask Shahriar (Hugoneus in this forum) I think he has it pretty good with his PhD working at Bell Labs

author: logictom
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 07:31:12 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on November 07, 2015, 07:10:28 amThere are always exceptions of coursebut I think a lot of the PhDs are like a lot of students coming from uni that don't know which end of a soldering iron to hold

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 08:18:12 am
content: Another benefit of a PhD is if you might ever, for example, want to move to the USA. A PhD will greatly facilitate obtaining a green card.As to being overqualified, it works both ways. You become overqualified for some kinds of job but better qualified for others. Over the years about 50% of my work colleagues have had PhDs. They are far from rare in highly technical fields.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 08:33:22 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 07, 2015, 08:18:12 amThose are all valid, useful points.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 08:41:15 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 01:31:59 amGood. But you mentioned other reasons as well, and they were the focus of my comments.QuoteMaybe, maybe not. If you can accurately fortell technology plus economics plus politics for the next 40 years, then you can make large amounts of money in manymanydifferent ways.Companies will pay you large amount of money while the want your specialism, then drop you as soon as your specialist technology disappears or they get taken over or they fall victim to a competitor.Consider two career paths: world expert in a narrow specialist field, or jack-of-all-trades and master of none. Both are equally validm but have different risk-reward profiles.As I also noted, consider IanB's comments.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 09:40:21 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 07, 2015, 01:58:39 amIn our region, there's a flood of unwanted and totally unuseful Phd's.Titles like: "Development of xxx awareness in the yyy field" are frequent, also in the STEM field.Those guys often end up in some govt bureaucracy, below what they call their "level", where "some Master" was the requirement.Even the exhibitors of the last Phd fair were complaining about it. Give us some related phd's !All related Phd's in electronics, biotech, composites I know of have a serious job, with a serious income.But all of them in multinationals, govt and and quasi-govt.Quote from: bigdawg on November 07, 2015, 03:01:35 amThere's a part missing in the comparison.Do the Phd guys of your year all make the same or less than the average of all the guys who didn't do it?

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 11:33:35 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 12:05:03 amAre you from the People's Republic of China? A PhD will help you and your family save face in Chinese culture. Hence why your family and friends will might want you to do the PhD. Similar for engineers from India where class and status is part of their culture. In Australian culture, having a PhD does not save face at all and often provides no financial advantage. I am not against PhD's per se. In fact my daughter earned one.In Australia having a PhD does not necessarily provide much value add. Here, a person's practical skills and experience are generally more highly valued here. I don't know how it might help you in China. Maybe PhD's can get extra money there. Is this extra money worth the loss of an engineer's income for several years? In Australia, having a PhD can provide some extra opportunities in science, but it can also close doors because you can be considered overeducated for most jobs.If I were you, if you want to earn money, have a good career and have genuine passion for electronics, go for the TI job. Get experience with a good company. But if you want to do research for the sake of educating yourself and contributing to the global body of knowledge, go for the PhD. Saving face should not affect your decision. But it sounds like you are above that. Don't always listen to your family and friends unless you are clear on their motives.In my opinion, a volunteer is worth ten conscripts. That is, someone who has genuine passion is far more valuable than someone who does it only for the money.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:19:03 pm
content: Is any possible loss beside time and money for the degree?is PhD cannot be untitled?If the company need only graduate then why pretend you never have PhD degree, is it illegal?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 01:04:33 amSmart move. It's a window of opportunity that may not come back.

author: Weistek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:48:49 pm
content: Good move, iv always wanted to get my PhD in engineering. My only problem is that A I have a family and unless your family is willing to see you as a ghost for the next few years then it can be detrimental to a family.My other reason is I've talked to a lot of higher up people in this regard that they would rather higher a masters degree such that they essentially have the same amount of knowledge in the given field but are a little more specialized, and thus demand a higher pay rate.I plan on going to my masters and if life permits maybe a PhD.Just my observations and two cents. Wish you well in your endeavors.Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:56:55 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 07, 2015, 11:33:35 amValuing good education is not a 'save face' but a very productive cultural trait because education is a strong contributor for social mobility.For example, Silicon Valley here is full of Indian and Chinese engineers that do extremely well due to their high education.It got to a point where certain universities tried to set higher admission bars for citizens from Asian origins to achieve what they call 'diversity'.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 03:25:16 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 07, 2015, 09:40:21 amI am using averages of all us with M.S. and comparing that to those who went for PhDs. This is mainly due to the fact that most of us went to work for industry or govt jobs however, most with phds want to become tenure track faculty; and since those positions are in short supply, most of my former classmates are stuck in adjunct positions/temp instructors/profs etc making way less money. This is not to say that they all will be stuck there indefinitely.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 03:34:00 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 07, 2015, 11:23:56 amI didnt know that was the case; In light of that, maybe your decision makes more sense. However, as you may know, you get an OPT for each degree level; and some of my international friends who did their B.S., M.S., and PhD availed all the available OPTs before going back to school. I dont know if you want to pursue that path; but deferring your phd by a yr to get real life experience may not be all that bad of an idea.Either way best of luck. I know RTP very well; and my company's biggest client is located in RTP so I go there all the time.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 11:06:19 pm
content: I wouldn't fear to much for overqualified. I think you need to measure overqualified to the area you want to live in. E.g. if you get a masters at an university and then move back "home" 3 hours from any uni, you may find out there are no "matching jobs". If you plan to stay around the city with the R&D companies there will be enough companies to choose from.If you're a hobbyist yourself I trust you will find a balance between practical skills and academic research. That sounds like a great skill set to have.And who knows. Maybe you get tired of the commercial sector in 3 years. If you have a PhD and published papers, the chances that you return to an university and/or academic environment are far better than without it. So if any, it only improves your possibilities IMHO.