Static from hand killed my expensive mouse, can it be repaired? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 03:52:53 pm
content: I have a Steelseries mouse from 2008 that is no longer being manufactured. It's the only mouse that doesn't make my hand hurt when I use it. A used one from eBay goes for around $450 which is a ton of money.This morning, I touched the mouse and received a static shock. Usually, it stops working for 2 seconds, but it starts working again. Now it's dead for good. I put it in a different USB port, no luck. I tried a different mouse and that worked, but when I plugged in the dead mouse, the new mouse wouldn't work until I reset the PC.I've been nursing this mouse since 2008. I've only replaced the switches and encoder, but I don't know what to look for in repairing what the static killed on the little board.Anything I should look for on the board after I open it up?

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 08:11:59 pm
content: Look for ESD protection components near the USB electronics.Measure the resistance between the +5V and Ground pins of the USB connector.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 08:13:59 pm
content: Quote from: fzabkar on November 27, 2021, 08:11:59 pmOn the mouse itself?

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 08:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 27, 2021, 08:13:59 pmYes. Also tests for shorts between ground and each of Data + and Data -.

author: EHT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 09:03:30 pm
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 27, 2021, 03:52:53 pmWhat is this thing? When i search for Steelseries there are new mice around £50 price point.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 09:03:44 pm
content: It's usually a single, small IC package that is located near the connector/cable.That said, I really doubt static killed your mouse, and I also doubt that there has been no mice made in the last 14 year that would suit your hands, but attempting a repair is a fine way to proceed. I would check to make sure all the cord connections make good contact through the cable, as generally the most common point of failure is going to be the interface between the cable and the board, or in the cable/connector itself. Beyond that, verifying the voltage on the USB power line when it's plugged in (to see if something is shorted and dragging it down) and inspecting for any grime that got in through small gaps that could have pushed on something or shorted something on the board itself.Also worth checking what the OS reports when it's connected - whether there is a device identified or if it just acts like nothing has been present - and this isn't always apparent in notifications.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 10:05:54 pm
content: Quote from: EHT on November 27, 2021, 09:03:30 pmIt's the Steelseries Cataclysm mouse. They stopped making them back in 2008

author: Fflint
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 11:40:42 pm
content: It is not a solution you're looking for, but if you don't manage to fix it you could get a cheap travel laser mouse(tiny) and have a custom enclosure 3d printed to match the shape of the old one.Perhaps you own a 3d printer, or you know someone with one? Also if you could do the CAD by yourself, that can make the whole thing a lot more cost effective. There is a free(open source) powerful CAD software called FreeCAD. Version 19 is actually usable as a proper CAD if you can get through learning the interface without pulling your hair out. If you do go down this route I'll send you some YouTube video links to good tutorials.It is just a thought. Another one may be to convince someone to do the CAD for you in hope of selling the model(or the print) in future.

author: abdulbadii
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2021, 11:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 27, 2021, 03:52:53 pmso weird super hi, expensiive quality product not even esd proof, should ensure it really is.is its body conductor ?

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 12:11:00 am
content: I took it apart and this is the PCB. I don't even know where to start looking as to what is broken. can these boards be bought by themselves with all the parts installed or are they made specifically for Steelseries?

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 12:15:53 am
content: Quote from: abdulbadii on November 27, 2021, 11:46:57 pmThey sold for $99 each when they came out around 2008. But the problem is they don't make these anymore and the used ones on eBay are going for $350 to $600 and from Bulgaria

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 07:22:46 am
content: Yep, no ESD components, there's even positions for them right by the connector, see the USB pair coming off it, CDM/CDP.ESD causes quite severe currents through whatever it's sunk to, very briefly. On the order of 15A peak, with a half-height duration of 50ns or thereabouts. It's not much energy, at least to something macroscopic like us (it hurts enough to be annoying..), but the peak power is incredible, and for the tiny (micron-sized) structures on a chip, it's easily fatal.And something like a mouse, ought to be designed to be fully insulated (but there's enough things on this one, I'm not sure, maybe there's exposed metal parts near some of those buttons?). But it seems you exceeded that insulation level. It must've been a stonking great spark indeed. It might've exceeded the voltage it was rated to (typically these things are tested up to 15kV). Which doesn't bode well.The main chip seems to be a Freescale (now NXP) MC9S08JM16 microcontroller:https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MC9S08JM16.pdfIt's only rated to 2kV ESD, and definitely needs external components to provide protection to this kind of level. (Probably they figured the enclosure would give enough insulation, so left off anything extra.) Very likely it's shit the bed, at least the USB pair if not additional internal damage (like shorting the supply pins together). Can go around the device with a multimeter on "diode test" and see which pins are diode-like (probably good) and shorted (or low resistance, and how low at that).If someone's dumped its firmware, it's possible to get a replacement part, program it, and keep on using the same rest of the mouse. This has some caveats:1. They probably read-protected the chip, so it will require some hacking to dump it. Often an exploit is required. This is non-trivial, and likely requires clever programming (maybe the USB port, programming port, or other pins are vulnerable to unexpected codes) or special hardware (such as a tool to momentarily drop power to the MCU, as it's executing a critical section, confusing it and causing it to pass the check).2. Programming it, requires some hardware and software to connect to the chip itself. Typically a programmer adapter, drivers for it, and a software tool to send the file to it. Sometimes very simple hardware is required (some chips can be programmed with a generic serial adapter). They were nice enough to provide the manufacturer's recommended programming port, by the looks of it (J2, see datasheet page 329).3. New from scratch: it's always a possibility, if the original firmware isn't available, to write it new. Knowledge of the pin functions, opto sensor, and device hardware (well, that's one of two datasheets down at least) is required, and simply a lot of time to bring it all together (100hr+?). It looks like there are one or a few open-source mouse designs, maybe one can be ported to the MCU, that would save a few hours digging through hardware specs. In any case, needless to say this would be prohibitively expensive, unless you happen to have the exact skill set to do it yourself -- in which case, still, you're far better off just getting the replacement unit. Alas.And, it's still possible that your chip has its memory intact, but the physical issues caused by ESD damage may prevent accessing it, besides the above reasons.Oh hah, the sensor actually exists, brand name Avago even:http://www1.futureelectronics.com/doc/AVAGO%20TECHNOLOGIES/ADNS-9500.pdfso that's the datasheets. And the other chip in the corner is just an ordinary EEPROM, nothing special there.Tim

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 07:32:47 am
content: First check continuity of the cable wires. Static discharge may be a coincidence.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 03:25:04 pm
content: Besides checking the continuity of the USB wire, this may be out of my expertise. Is it worth taking to an electronics repair shop? Buying a used one on eBay will cost me around $450 plus shipping and taking a chance on it being still operational.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 03:44:51 pm
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 28, 2021, 03:25:04 pmNot likely. They can't replace the microcontroller because they don't have the firmware. They could replace the 9500 but you don't know if that's the problem. If the mouse doesn't even produce a USB connection event I would suspect there's something wrong with the MCU.There are people building their own mice... here's a recent hackaday article:https://hackaday.com/2020/03/12/build-your-own-mouse-for-high-performance/And a design with schematics and firmware:https://www.overclock.net/threads/progress-on-a-fully-custom-mouse.1724838/post-28267334and some modules for motion sensors:https://www.tindie.com/products/jkicklighter/pmw3360-motion-sensor/https://www.tindie.com/products/jkicklighter/adns-9800-laser-motion-sensor/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 04:05:08 pm
content: Time to stop and consider EXACTLY what happened.1. You touched the mouse and witnessed an ESD event…. Fine2. What material is the mouse casing made from ? Plastic, Metal of Plastic with a sprayed conductive layer inside (black sooty or metallic in appearance. Is there a connection of some sort from the PCB ground plane to the mouse casing ?3. Where did you touch the mouse for the discharge to occur? On a button, scroll wheel or just the casing.4. You say this happened before and the mouse returned to life after a few minutes. Did you have to disconnect it from the host for this to happen and where did you likely touch the mouse to cause the ESD discharge ?5. Is your mouse connected to an earthed appliance or an isolated computer such as a laptop that is without an Earth connection ?Why do I ask all these questions ? Well to understand a failure and assist in identifying the location of likely damage, you need to look at the case scenario in detail. Static electricity can definitely damage sensitive electronic components and may disrupt their normal operation even if not directly contacted by the discharge. The high voltage needs to find its way to a very different potential for a discharge event to occur. In domestic situations this is commonly you carrying the high voltage charge and the charge causing an ESD event to ground, or a component at a significantly different charge. Potential. So in the case of your mouse, the charge travelled down your arm, onto the mouse casing or it’s buttons and found a path to the mouse 0V rail or USB cable screen. If we consider this to be a fact for the moment, you have to wonder how the charge damaged an IC or other component that was not directly in the path of discharge. For example, a metal cased mouse with its case DIRECTLY connected to the screen of an earthed computer would see a faraday cage effect where the charge goes around the PCB but not through it or it’s components. If the case is plastic, without an earthed spay conductive screen, the charge can travel to the plastic and potentially find a lower charge potential component in close proximity to the case mounts or even through the case, a short distance to a component on the other side. Much depends upon the insulating qualities of the plastic used. If the case is earthed via connections to the PCB before reaching the USB earth connection, there can be collateral damage issues as well.Let us consider for a moment the potential earthing or lower charge paths within the mouse. Any of the USB connections to the host computer is a potential charge discharge path and it is interesting that your mouse effectively stops your other mouse from working. As has been stated, it is common to use ESD protection TVS diodes on all USB pins as these limit over-voltage events by taking the voltage to the USB chassis connection and/or the 0V rail. In your mouse I see no such protection so the manufacturer was relying upon the ESD protection built into the USB bridge within the processor IC. Not great practice but that is another story.Let us consider failure modes here for a discharge via a USB connection.The USB connections are +5V, 0V, D+, D- and screen (0V or Earth)The mouse has low voltage Multi Layer Capacitors (MLC) on some pins but not all. The CDN (D-) and CDP(D+) capacitors are not fitted. Such capacities are more for data line noise suppression than any sort of ESD protection. MLC capacitors are not known for their tolerance of physical or electrical abuse and are regularly seen to go short circuit in laptop deployments. It would be possible for an ESD event to cause damage to an MLC capacitor that causes a short circuit or low impedance. In your situation I would remove the MLC capacitors connected to the USB connections in case one has failed. You can refit them if this does not remove the fault. It I’d does remove the fault, either test the capacitors with 5V across them or fit new ones.That is enough from me for now.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 04:25:58 pm
content: Regarding component markings on the PCB….R= ResistorC= CapacitorV=VoltageD=DataP= PositiveN= NegativeSo a component marked “CV3” would ve a capacitor on a supply rail. Likely a decoupling (Bypass) capacitor.One marked “CD3” would cue a capacitor on a data line. Likely RFI and noise suppression.The “CDP” is a Capacior connected the plosive data line. Likely fir RFI and noise suppression.The Resistors are similarly identified. So “RDP” is a resistor involved with the Positive Data line and “RDN” is involved with the Negative Data lineGood thinking by the designer

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 04:30:58 pm
content: If wishing to move onto actual diagnostics, you could check the supply rails of the mouse to ensure they are present and correct. A shorted MLC will likely drag a supply rail down and may even activate the host computers over-current protection device. These are commonly self resetting fuses and they can take a minute or two to reset…. Sound familiar ? The host PC could have been experiencing temporary over current situations in the past and triggered the auto resetting USB 5V supply fuse. Such a protection circuit might also disable other devices on the same USB hub supply rail.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 04:42:44 pm
content: My thoughts on the auto restring fuse are possibly wrong as they reset quicker than I said ! It could be a LDO regulator in the mouse in distress causing an issue though.Fraser

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 04:52:44 pm
content: If I buy another used one, is there a way to add ESD protection to it in case it happens again?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 05:32:00 pm
content: ESD power and data path protection is easily added as there are several TVS diode array case formats to suit different applications. The challenge is in deciding where ESD protection is needed. If the mouse has a plastic case, I would spray conductive paint on the inside and use spring contacts to connect to the paint layer. The contacts should be connected to the USB screen connection.Fraser

author: nvmR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 05:38:23 pm
content: As userFraserdiscussed, it is important to consider failure mechanisms before the mouse itself.One of these is the outlet you are using for example. It can be checked using an outlet checker to see if GND is preset and ok (as in image attached) .Regarding fixing the mouse:The fact that the usb port doesn't work after plugging in points to a short which trips the e-fuse in the usb port. If you have a power supply with current limiting capability, we can understand how much the mouse is taking from the usb-port. In any case, checking for resistance between 5V and GND when the device is off, and looking for capacitors which may be shorted is critical.This is again quite similar to Fraser's tips

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 05:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on November 28, 2021, 05:32:00 pmThe housing is plastic. So I should just spray the entire PCB with a special spray and it's good?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 05:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 28, 2021, 12:11:00 amIt's a fully custom PCB designed from the ground up for that mouse. It probably has a lot in common with other mice made by the same company in the same era but there is no way you will be able to buy just a replacement board off the shelf. Most of the components on it are standard off the shelf parts but as someone else mentioned already, the firmware is the secret sauce that makes it all work and you probably won't be able to get your hands on that.You might be able to hack up a similar mouse and stuff the guts inside the case from this one but that's likely going to be some work.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 06:20:09 pm
content: Another approach, once its been proven the TQFP-48 custom programmed MCU is faulty (see Fraser's comments above for why it might not be), and if you cant source a board from the same model mouse that still enumerates when its USB is plugged in (possibly from a mechanically knackered mouse) to transplant a good MCU from, would be to remove the MCU and 'dead bug' a QFN package ATmega32U4 within its footprint, patching it to the TQFP footprint as required to pick up signal and supply voltages required. I suspect you'd also need to change the crystal as an Arduino Leonardo uses a 16MHz crystal and I *think* that one's 12MHz. Then you could write your own firmware for it as-if it was an Arduino.Unlike Fraser, although I would suggest the same nickel screening spray, (on the inside of all plastic case parts except for the sensor window/lens, *NOT*on the PCB), I would connect to the nickel screen once the paint is fully cured with copper tape with conductive adhesive, then solder grounding wires to the copper tape, as I think grounding springs would be difficult to mount reliably. Ideally, overspray the edges of the copper tape with more nickel paint after soldering the tape end of the grounding wires.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 06:26:50 pm
content: Something else to consider is reducing the ESD problem in the first place. Consider a humidifier in the room during the winter when it's dry. You can get ESD spray that can be applied to furniture and carpet, and you could put a ESD mat on the desk and get in the habit of touching that before touching anything connected to the computer. I find static shocks to be highly annoying even if I'm not handling anything delicate.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 06:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 28, 2021, 06:26:50 pmI didn't know they sold ESD mats. I'm going to see if they sell ESD mousepads or just cut one up and use that as a mousepad. Then I just have to make sure I touch that before I grab the mouse.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 06:40:55 pm
content: Or I can just fabricate a small piece of metal and connect that to one of the open grounds of my computer's power strip/surge protector and touch that before I grab the mouse.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 06:47:13 pm
content: An ESD mat requires grounding. To avoid an annoying wire tangling with your mouse lead, you'd want one big enough for your whole PC work area going under the keyboard and monitor (and the PC case if its on your desktop) as well. Connect the other end of the ESD mat's ground lead to a ring terminal added under an external screw on your PC's case, ideally one of the PSU fixing screws. If its a laptop its a bit harder. If its PSU is properly grounded, probably the best option would be to get a mains socket ESD grounding adapter plug, and connect it to the same duplex outlet as your laptop PSU, or if its a single outlet connect both to an extension power strip.If you wanted to cheapskate it, copper foil tape along and over the front edge of your desk, connected via 3x 330K resistors in series to a spare ground on your power strip would provide a good 'ESD touchdown'. The resistors are there to reduce the risk of electrocution if you come in contact with a live circuit while working on your PC or if there is a double fault (i.e loss of supply ground + something fed by the socket strip develops a live to ground fault).Edit: To clarify - the 3x 330K series resistors are for safety and voltage withstanding capability. Any single one can short out e.g. by carbon tracking, and you've still got 660K left to limit the ESD discharge current and also keep the worst case current if you come in contact with live mains, or a HV DC bus (e.g. on the primary side of a SMPSU) while in contact with the ESD grounding strip, under a milliamp to prevent electrocution. 2x 470K could also be used, but there's less standoff voltage capability and less safety if one fails. Its been suggested below to heatshrink over the resistors. If you choose to do that, its essential to use adhesive lined heatshrink to avoid leaving a creepage path, which may even breakdown at a lower voltage than a bare resistor in air. Joints must not be spikey (spikes encourage flashover by concentrating the E field) or closer than one body diameter to the resistor end cap or body end.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 06:58:36 pm
content: As Ian.m has clarified, the conductive paint may be used on the inside of the casing but must not be applied to the PCB or components as that would cause a short circuit of the mouse circuits. I agree with Ian.m that conductive self adhesive copper tape is a far more elegant way to make contact with the conductive paint I have actually seen people using the thin conductive copper tape in place of the conductive paint. It will not be pretty but it is unseen inside the mouse. Note that the electronics use copper tape is different to gardeners copper tape in that it uses a conductive adhesive so the overlapping strips do not need to be soldered together.Fraser

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 08:27:54 pm
content: So I just need something that is conductive and hooked up to one of the screws on the PC case? I think they're all connected to the ground in the PSU

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 08:39:59 pm
content: Highly conductive is problematic as very large currents can flow during an ESD discharge to e.g. a directly grounded metal surface, resulting in induced transients in nearby wires, and also, if you are holding anything ESD sensitive, and touch down with it without first making contact with your hand to the surface that high transient current flows through the sensitive item, virtually guaranteeing ESD damage.Real ESD mats have a resistive backing and a much higher resistance (but still slightly conductive) top layer to discharge ESD safely without excessive discharge currents, and also, if you are working on a PCB directly on the mat surface, prevent it shorting out all but the most sensitive of high voltage circuits.They are readily available on Amazon, Ebay, and from specialist suppliers. Beware of excessively cheap ones from China, as they can stink worse than dogs--t from the low grade plasticizers used, and won't air out and loose that 'China export plastic' smell quickly enough to use this winter! Also cheap vinyl ESD mats cant stand soldering temperatures, so don't use a cheap one on your electronics bench.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 09:21:48 pm
content: Used to have issues with ESD resetting my monitor when I would get close or touch the mouse or keyboard.It was particularly bad in winter due to the low humidity.I got a flooring piece of wood 3/8" thick on the carpet with an ESD mat.Under the monitor and mousepad there are also ESD mats. You can see one of the mat ground wire as the black round connector on the floor on the top righthand side.Each is wired to the computer case. I also verified that the computer case is indeed grounded to the ground on the power plug via the PSU.Got the mats from ebay. There is a company serving the USA and Canada that sells remnants and pre-cut stuff at a good price.The stuff also came with the proper grounding hardware.Never had an issue after that.PS: Same folks I got my workbench mat too.Post 9534 on the "what-did-you-buy-today-post-your-latest-purchase" in the general chat section.PS2: They did not smell either. Good stuff.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 10:48:55 pm
content: Simply put, you want to dissipate the static charge in something resistive that can handle the very short spike of high voltage easily, between a conductive surface that one touches, and the ground. There is very little energy in the discharge, even in a dramatic one.I have used a thin strip of aluminium on the edge of my desk, connected to true ground through a 1 MOhm resistor. (Strip – wire – through-hole resistor inside heat-shrink sleeving – wire – ground.) I like to wear woolly socks during the winter, and when it gets really cold, the air becomes rather dry, and static charge just accumulates everywhere.Whenever you sit down, the strip should be somewhere you naturally touch first before anything else. The resistor means you won't ever feel the zap when static charge is dissipated, so that's a bonus.I like anodized aluminium for this. It's dull gray and unobtrusive, and easy to keep clean.It is difficult to solder directly to anodized aluminium, so for best results, use a screw or bolt through the aluminium, and a lug or something to connect the grounding wire (with the resistor somewhere further down on the wire); and sand or file the anodizing off of near the bolt hole as the anodizing doesn't conduct well.I have considered using rounded L profile as the edge of the desk, but I don't like how it looks. It would work well, though.The 1 MOhm resistor, preferably a "high voltage resistor" that can handle say 10 kV or more, is the dissipative element. Don't confuse them withpower resistorsthat can dissipate a lot of power as heat; there is very little power or energy here. An old large carbon resistor, maybe, or a thick film resistor. I'd definitely use heatshrink too, to make sure the static discharge doesn't bypass the resistor by arcing outside it. These static discharges have very high voltage and will arc several millimeters in air, but they don't have much energy. If you have smaller resistors, say 470kOhm, put a couple of them in series.I'm not sure as to what the optimum resistor value really is, but basically you want it high enough to drop the entire voltage spike, but conductive (low enough resistance) that the static charge does discharge through it and doesn't find a lower-resistance path to ground elsewhere. Static table mat material itself is a big resistor with relatively high resistance. Typical floor mats are conductive, and have on the order of 1 MOhm resistor to ground. 3M SCC grounding wristband has a 1MOhm resistor on it, for example.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 12:10:35 am
content: I just bout this from Amazon. It should do the trick. Plugs right into the ground of an outlet or a power striphttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FHQDKDH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 01:07:24 am
content: It's a bit small, but enough to go under your mouse mat at least, or depending on the surface it might work fine as a mouse mat itself.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 09:11:11 am
content: Quote from: richnormand on November 28, 2021, 09:21:48 pmI hate that so much. I just got a new LCD and it resets almost every time I turned off my powered speakers I have nearby. Classic EFT situation, my fault for not putting an R+C across the power switch into the transformer (which fixed the problem), but how can they test these things to class B? How can I know if a stronger ESD hit will be class C (requires power cycle) -- or worse?Tim

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 11:18:16 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on November 29, 2021, 09:11:11 amMost likely the issue is with crappy video cable rather that with monitor. Also plugging monitor and PC in the same power outlet may help.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 12:31:10 pm
content: Yes, some combination of things -- cables are notoriously problematic too.Tim

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 05:10:47 pm
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 27, 2021, 03:52:53 pmQuote from: Pcmaker on November 27, 2021, 10:05:54 pmI googled it, and nothing about that mouse’s shape is even remotely rare and unique. The reason it’s selling for insane prices is because it is a World of Warcraft collector’s item.Take your broken mouse, go to Best Buy and look at all the mice. You’re bound to find multiple ones with basically the same shape.For what it’s worth, though, also consider the Logitech MX Vertical. It takes some getting used to, but my hand and arm really are much happier with it.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 10:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on November 29, 2021, 05:10:47 pmThe mouse also has very soft clickers. If I use any other regular mouse, when I keep clicking the buttons, especially the scroll wheel button, my hand is in pain and it shoots the pain right up to my elbow. I've tried dozens of other gaming mice and this one is the only one that doesn't do it.Unfortunately, gaming is what my life revolves around in, especially WoW. I've spent over 20k seeing 3 hand doctors over the last 15 years and they have not been able to provide a solution. I've tried other hobbies, but they don't do anything for me.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2021, 10:16:31 pm
content: Jeez, I didn't know WoW was even still a thing. I lost several friends to that game ~15 years ago. It just completely consumed them to the point that it was all they ever did anymore, virtually indistinguishable from a the situation with a couple others I lost to drug addictions. IMHO when a game becomes so totally consuming that it is causing physical injury it is no longer a hobby, it's an addiction.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2021, 12:05:57 am
content: I just got the ESD mat. It feels like rubber. I thought it was supposed to be conductive? I did a continuity test with my meter from the mat to the ground plug it plugs into and I get no continuity

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2021, 12:10:41 am
content: @pcmaker did any of those doctors recommended changing the mouse? I am not kidding. With a diferent mouse the geometry of the grip will change and that may help to alleviate the pain.An other way to address it is to switch to the other hand. When i had a wrist pain in my right wrist which i realized was induced by the mouse, i switched to my left hand. It resulted in a double benefit- my right wrist recovered with time and gave my brain some useful training: at first it was very awkward but in a few days i could not tell the difference, even if the mouse was right hand shaped.

author: Pcmaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2021, 12:26:33 am
content: Quote from: Bud on November 30, 2021, 12:10:41 amyeah, Ive tried other mice including trackball and vertical. They helped a little bit, but not the other "regular" mice.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2021, 12:30:08 am
content: It is rubber impregnated with conductive material. It does conduct but it has a very high resistance, several megohms per cm typically. Since ESD is a very high voltage the idea idea is to dissipate that while not being so conductive that it shorts out bare PCBs and such that you set on it. You normally won't measure anything with a multimeter and you probably won't feel anything if you touch it while charged with static but it will bleed off the charge.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2021, 08:20:07 am
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 29, 2021, 10:07:28 pmI'll provide you a solution, for free.Rest your hand for 2-3 weeks. That is the only thing that will surely help.Then - when your hand feels fine again - try some "normal" shaped and sized mouse and a silicon handrest, like this one:https://www.walmart.com/ip/Silicone-Gel-Wrist-Rest-Cool-Hand-Pillow-Cushion-Heart-Shaped-Translucence-Cool-Hand-Pillow-Cushion-Reduce-Wrist-Fatigue-Pain-Blue/257152594(There are plenty of other models available, just the first example that came up.)I am no doctor, but I assume some inflammation/pain relieve like Ibuprofen might be a good idea to use, while abstaining from torturing your hand.I had those problems as well, luckily not reappearing in the last years. No wonder, I probably moused my way to the sun and back in the last decades. Doing IT stuff the whole day does not helpLearn something every day: In German, one of these two is probably the cause of your problems: "Sehnenscheidenentzündung" or "Karpaltunnelsyndrom"

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2021, 09:36:24 am
content: Quote from: Pcmaker on November 30, 2021, 12:05:57 amTheyarerubber. The smooth top layer has a very high resistance you can’t measure with a typical multimeter. The rough lower layer is much more conductive and should be readable with your multimeter (in the ballpark of 10k ohm, depending on distance, mat size, pressure on the probe tips, etc.).Additionally, the cord should have a safety resistor in it, usually 10Mohm or so. That alone exceeds what many multimeters can measure.