Dangerous soldering iron? Or am I to blame? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 10:23:46 pm
content: I recently purchased an American Beauty 'Little Dandy' soldering iron. I took it out of the box and noticed a couple things. The handle did not appear to have any means of securing it to the frame of the iron and it was put on crooked so it looked bent. I decided that's just the way it was and started to use it.It was a 50 watt with a large tip that I bought to work on pc boards with large traces and ground planes. The tip runs very hot and it was hard to keep it tinned especially with the flux I was using.I had only used the iron about three times when THE TIP BECAME ELECTRIFIED TO THE MAINS VOLTAGE, 120VAC!It sparked on the equipment I was working on even thought the equipment was not connected to any power source.I have a metal soldering iron holder where I can park three irons while working. When I went to put the American Beauty back into the holder it sparked again because it conducted through the other irons grounded tips. I measured the tip with my Fluke and it had 120 volts on it.I returned the iron to American Beauty and they blamed me. They said I did not keep the tip properly tinned and therefore had to put too much pressure on the iron, bending the handle back and forth until the wires inside came undone. They did give me a refund but would not take any responsibility for what I think is a defective and dangerous product.I have worked on equipment like this for more that forty years. I have used all types of soldering irons. Not one of them has ever come apart like this and I have not recently changed my soldering methods. I have a Weller, an Unger, and a Radio shack iron all used for the same purpose and they are over twenty years old and have never failed.So who is to blame? And what should I do? I fear someone may be killed by this iron.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 10:29:08 pm
content: Their accusation sounds totally ridiculous to me, a soldering iron tip should not become electrified no matter how hard you press on it, that's absurd.I wouldn't bother with any conventional soldering iron anymore anyway though, proper temperature controlled soldering stations are not that expensive anymore. They are so much better than the basic irons that just run full power all the time. You could have 80-100W on hand but still set the temperature appropriately for whatever you're using it for.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:10:42 pm
content: I have taken apart several heaters for soldering irons over the last 40 years.Many of them (older ones mostly) , including several well known makes, were driven directly from the mains or a triac connected to the line.The only thing between the mains powered tungsten heater wire and the tip assembly was a thing mica sheet. They kept the sheet as thin as possible for heat transfer.So, this scenario is entirely possible.Is this soldering iron powered directly from the AC line like the old ones or does it have a control system box with a transformer? You can usually tell if the iron wand is rated at 24 or 48V DC PWM or straight 110VAC...Use an ohm meter and check for continuity between the tip and the AC plug.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:19:45 pm
content: It's curious.The irons that run directly on mains are almost always 2 plug. And almost every iron that actually runs off a low voltage transformer is grounded.A grounded tip would have have turned your lights out. In the good way!

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 11:44:44 pm
content: You should have kept the one that nearly electrocuted you as evidence. You could buy another and see if you can replicate the first instance if you are really concerned. It's entirely up to you how you deal with it.Thank god you weren't electrocuted or worse even!

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:06:36 am
content: This iron does not have a control box. It plugs directly into the 120 volt outlet. It has a three prong plug.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:14:20 am
content: If it had a three prong plug then any exposed metal parts should have been connected to the ground pin. A short circuit making the tip live should have tripped a breaker.But 50 W irons that plug directly into the mains are commonly known as "fire sticks". They may be OK for word burning, but not so good for electronics.

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:43:13 am
content: Yes I agree I should have a top quality iron. I solder almost every day. American Beauty products are made in the USA. They have been making industrial grade soldering irons for many years. The list price is $80. I thought this was a pretty high price for just a standard non temp controlled iron but I wanted a quality iron that would just put out a lot of heat. I do sometimes press down on the iron to get good heat transfer but I do this with all my irons that I have been using for many, many years. The 'Little Dandy' iron looked very strange in that there were no screws or anything holding the handle on and the handle was not put on straight. Maybe that should have been a clue that should have just returned it.The tip of this iron is grounded. This is a feature I wanted as I work on electronic equipment. When the iron was placed back in my stand which is grounded it blew the breaker in the building. According to the American Beauty investigation they said the ground wire came of first and then the hot wire came off and touched the frame. They claim the pressure I used on the iron rocked the handle back and forth causing the wires to break free. I do not lean that hard on my irons. I even checked my other irons and applied pressure to the handles and there was no movement that could dislodge a wire.Rather than buying another American Beauty iron I would like to see some independent test of this product. I guess I could report this product to some consumer agency?I will definitely will be doing more research before I buy another iron.Thank you for all the responses.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 01:28:28 am
content: For large connections, consider getting a soldering gun instead?

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 01:46:48 am
content: I do have a soldering gun but I don't use it much anymore. Maybe I should. This discussion has made me think I should only be using soldering stations that are isolated and regulated.I was very lucky that I was not electrocuted because I did not have my other hand on the equipment I was soldering on. I was very shaken by the incident so I will spend the money and get a good soldering station.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 02:20:37 am
content: Who even thought naming a company that makes soldering irons American Beauty was a good idea...?Even a 936 clone doesn't have problems like this.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 02:31:13 am
content: Quote from: amyk on July 29, 2018, 02:20:37 amLOL! Imagine being electrocuted by a soldering iron with a stupid name like American Beauty! At least if it was called The BIG Shocker or something you wouldn't feel like a big sissy....after you had recovered from the electrocution that is....IF you recovered at all that is!Thinking outside the box....

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 03:04:45 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 29, 2018, 12:10:21 amOK blueskull... I'll assume your misread my reply....Yes I have used soldering irons for 40 years plus. Yes I have seen and owned , in the early days, some questionable irons that were standard at the time and repaired them when needed.(removed, may have been a tad harsh)Here is my present setup.Just wanted to point out that it is possible in some designs that do send 110V AC to the tip heater (even with 3 prong plugs if isolated with a 1 meg resistor) to have an issue.Cheers

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 03:10:38 am
content: Cheers. No issue.

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 03:44:36 am
content: Well it is worse than that. The company name is American Beauty but the model of the soldering iron is the 'Little Dandy".Yes, now I am ashamed I ever bought it. Maybe that's why there was no name plate or label on the handle of the iron because they are ashamed of it.It is obvious this company has put cost over safety.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 04:30:15 am
content: China probably learned it from the US, it's certainly nothing new here. Overall product quality went into a decline starting sometime around the early to mid 80s and that downward trajectory has continued.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 05:45:33 am
content: The consumer is the one to blame, everyone wants the world at a bargain price, so the companies are on a race to the bottom to try to get those sales from the cheapskates who won't pay a fair price for a good quality product, who then bitch and moan that the thing they bought for pennies from China (or the USA, or anywhere these days) is total crap.If you stop buying cheap shit, they'll stop making cheap shit.(That's not a jab at the OP, it's a jab at whoever buys cheap crap in general).

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 10:10:10 am
content: It's possible that this iron had been opened for some reason by a previous owner and then returned and somehow resold to you by accident?Personally I'd have investigated the handle more before using it, in order to check that it was safe to use. So in that sense, yes you were partly to blame as you should have relied on your senses more in the first place. You yourself admitted to be concerned about the handle not looking right when you took it out of the box.That said though, the ground wire should always be longest wire on a termination point so that is the last connection to fail if pressure is applied that causes wires to be come disconnected. Same reason why the ground pin should be the longest one so it makes ground connection first and breaks last for safety.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 04:09:59 pm
content: When the tip that was supposed to be grounded gets eletrically hotthis would need a double fault: one wire getting loose and one wrong connection. This should not happen, under essentially no circumstances, even if you misuse it as a hammer. Claiming that too much pressure because of a poorly tinned tip could cause that kind of defect is what makes me scared of that product - even more than a single unit failing, for what ever reason (e.g. wired the wrong way from the start, poor repair,...).However in an electronics lab there should be a GFI for the outlets - that should have tripped, when touching the stand and similar. So there is a second fault.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 04:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on July 29, 2018, 01:45:50 pmI've probably spent $200 over the 18 years I've had my Edsyn soldering station, including the $150 I paid for it at the time. It was used but in good shape, seems like new ones were around $300-$400 back then.

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 06:05:22 pm
content: Yes I do take some responsibility. I have worked in the electronics industry all my life and I know junk when I see it. When I first looked at the iron and saw it was bent and saw no means of support I then looked to see if by chance it was UL approved. No UL stamp, no name on the handle, looked a bit dodgy as Dave would say and I still used it.As far as the grounded tip goes per Dave video #596 if the ground had stayed attached then it should have blown the bench circuit breaker when the tip became electrified. So yes to have both wires dislodge is pretty awful and proves a very poor and unsafe design.Given that this is from a very well established American company and that this type of iron is very common, it may be a good subject for Dave to cover just from a safety standpoint.They may call them fire sticks but are they really all potential lighting sticks?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 07:58:18 pm
content: I guess what you bought is similar to this?https://americanbeautytools.com/soldering-iron-3112/8/featuresI think in general this kind of iron tends to run hot and will smoke flux. If it is pumping 50 W of heat into the tip all the time even when not touching the work then that 50 W has nowhere to go, so the tip will get hotter and hotter and hotter until the convective cooling in the air balances it. That means every part of the iron is potentially vulnerable to heat damage. If the iron is parked tip downwards (for example in a stand), then heat will tend to rise up towards the handle and affect any wires or connections at the handle end.There is a place for irons like this in hobby and craft work, but probably not for electronics.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 08:09:15 pm
content: Wow, that thing is crazy expensive. For not much more you can get a Hakko temperature controlled soldering station. I used an iron like that when I was a kid, they were about 10 bucks at Radio Shack and proper soldering stations cost several hundred at the time but I wouldn't use one now.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 08:17:53 pm
content: Buy a metcal! I’ve got the cheaper PS-900 station and I could solder the wheels on my car with it then with the same tip hit some 0402s.https://youtu.be/x10hW9qvT8ETo note, every fire stick I’ve ever used is a pile of crap. I had a 200W for doing glass work with and it melted itself if you didn’t use it for more than 5 minutes. The whole idea of a non temperature controlled iron is just bad in 2018.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 09:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 29, 2018, 07:58:18 pmYup....it's calledTHE BINmy friend

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 12:43:46 am
content: Quote from: IanB on July 29, 2018, 07:58:18 pmGee. For that kind of money get the Hakko FX888D for only $10 bucks more with the EEVBlog discount:https://www.tequipment.net/HakkoFX888D-23BY.html?v=0

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 02:07:15 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 30, 2018, 12:43:46 amYes this is the same iron but I do not remember the name being on the handle.Yes it was also very difficult to keep the tip tinned. I only used the iron three times and I did my best to keep the tip clean and tinned. So I was surprised when they said I did not properly tin the iron. What was I supposed to do. It just kept burning the tin off and then burning the flux to the tip. When I saw this happen I would stop and clean the tip so I don't know what else I could have done.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 07:40:34 am
content: Nothing you could do, what they were telling you was manufacturers speak for lets find away to not admit liability and chuck some doubt towards the ends user and batten down the hatches.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 09:46:39 am
content: Yes, it was a piece of s--t that should never have been sold to you in that condition. Also it shouldn't have lost ground continuity before loosing the element circuit under *ANY* circumstances so maybe should never have been let out of the factory.The only way to keep a high wattage firestick like that tinned is to drop the power when its in the stand to reduce the temperature so it doesn't oxidise the bit so fast. The easy option there is a series diode to reduce the power to 50% + a switch to bypass it. Another option would be a modded light dimmer for power control with a switch to change over between two pots, one for standby and the other for active use. Ideally you rig a long lever microswitch to the stand so all you have to do is put it in the stand to go to standby power.However as you can get a Hakko clone + a genuine Hakko element and bit for far cheaper it just doen't make sense to add open loop power control to a firestick, or even to buy a high wattage firestick in the first place.Personally I use a 100W Weller soldering gun for the heavy stuff - transformer isolated bit + rapid heat + very little problem with burning bits, as you have to hold the trigger to power it. I'd *never* buy a firestick over 25W.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 03:09:22 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 29, 2018, 07:58:18 pmsomebody call the police, there is a robbery in progress!!!but seriously,that piece of shit is not earthed.i dont care how many pins they put on the plug, it has a "figure-of-eight" 2core cable on it.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 03:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: stj on August 01, 2018, 03:09:22 pmActually you wrong, it is earthed (or it is supposed to be earthed) if you take the photo of it in the person's hand and enlarge it you will notice very clearly that it has what appears to be a flat 3 core, similar to the figure 8 cable but with 3 cores.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 10:43:21 pm
content: someone needs to meter one.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 09:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: roberts.tech on July 29, 2018, 12:06:36 amHow the hell did it NOT blow the breaker, then? Are your outlets 3-prong and properly grounded?Or, did the ground pin conveniently also fail on this iron?Geez, I sure wouldn't want one of these in my shop!Jon

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 10:08:32 pm
content: Assuming the outlets are earthed then the oly way for it not to blow a breaker is if the earth in the plug was not connected.

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 01:49:31 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on August 08, 2018, 09:50:39 pm

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 05:53:59 pm
content: Without severe damage to the cord that actually cuts or breaks the ground wire somewhere between the plug and the iron, or severe physical damage to the point the handle is split and disintegrating, there is *NO* way that should happen, and if it can, the design is not fit for purpose.As Specmaster said back in reply#21:Quote from: Specmaster on July 29, 2018, 10:10:10 amIt just shouldn't be possible for a loose handle or loose cord grip to let the ground wire break or pull off before either of the live wires to the element.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 10:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: roberts.tech on August 11, 2018, 01:49:31 pmWOW, just SCARY, that's all! The iron handle/cord get a fair bit of wear over time, so a really great feature of the transformer-powered units with a base station is that the mains have one more layer of isolation to the tip.Glad nobody got hurt, and no fires were started!Jon

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 03:17:28 pm
content: File a complaint :https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/consumer-product-safety-commission

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 06:42:19 pm
content: too late, he gave back the evidence.he should atleast have taken lots of foto's including inside first.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 08:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: roberts.tech on July 28, 2018, 10:23:46 pmBuy Hakko FX888D or better FX951 and sleep easy.

author: roberts.tech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 02:51:03 am
content: Thank you to everyone for all of your comments and suggestions.I was not ready to spend the big bucks on a powerful station so I bought a Hakko FX601-2.I have been using it now for a couple of weeks and it does everything I need and is very well made.The tip is grounded. The handle is secured with screws and feels very solid.Temperature is adjustable so I can lower it to help to keep it tinned.I can apply some pressure on it I if I want and there is no flex on the handle so I know the wires will not come off inside.It puts out a ton of heat so I can solder/desolder components on large ground planes. I work mostly with large power systems so I need a lot of heat.It cost just a little more than the suicide iron. Thank you Hakko.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2018, 08:36:20 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 29, 2018, 07:58:18 pmLooking through their catalog, it seems as if they haven't had any new product ideas in 30 years. I suppose you should know what you're in for when their soldering tools are listed in order of power dissipation and not tip temperature!

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 07:32:39 pm
content: I think your 100% to blame i'm afraid!