New soldering station Hakko or Weller Closed (Hakko wins) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 06:07:50 pm
content: Looking at getting a New soldering station.These are the two I am looking at. Just doing small parts soldering. Will be using it once a week not every day. Not looking at Clones cuz of shipping to canada from china is not working 6 months later still have not gotten my products from china.These are the two I am looking at.http://www.tiptopelectronics.com/home.asp?ProdDetail=WES51http://www.tiptopelectronics.com/home.asp?ProdDetail=FX888D%2D23BYJust looking at these two, yes there are other station out there, but they are not sold where I live.Will be purchasing from a local shop. With shipping it is not worth getting some where else.Of the two, the one I want is the one that is the cheapest to own, who has the better tips the hakko or weller for me they are around $8 and up Canadian for Hakko and the Weller is around $6, which tip with proper use lasts longer, do i get more use from the expensive Hakko vs the lower priced Weller. Is one easier to repair then the other.Does the Hakko do a better job on putting heat in the tip vs the Weller.Who has a better return and or customer service.If you answer this post can you give me a 1 - 5 rating 1 being very bad and 5 being very good on these points below1 Tip longevity.2 Easy to Use3 Cost of ownership.4 Customer service.5 Would you purchase this product again.6 Temperature control.7 How long have you owned your product for.Yes there is a lot of posts on both machines, I have read a lot of them, I prefer a rating system so that I get the best product for me.ThanksHave a day

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 07:30:48 pm
content: http://www.weller-toolsus.com/soldering/tips/irons/style-type/et-series/page/2If I understand correctly, Weller makes 20 different "ET" series tips for the WES51.https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t18.htmlHakko makes 31 different standard T18 tips, not including the high temp N2 range. 888 also takes any 900M series tips.(Weller doesn't have an answer for at least 5 of the tips I use the most with my 888, but maybe that's my idiosyncratic preference).

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 07:33:33 pm
content: Thanks for the info.Are you using the Hakko, I posted, and if so could you give me your rating for the items I listed, it would be a great help.Have a day

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 07:45:33 pm
content: Also,Hakko 888 upgrade from 24V in the 936 to 26V in the 888. This is 17% more power, which is supposed to make it powerful enough for lead-free.Hakko1. Tip life: The hakko tips are passive. The inner copper slug/core is brazed into a (thick) jacket of iron. Unless you flake off the chrome or use a strong acid flux, they will last pretty close to forever. I assume Wes51 are the same? Still haven't lost a tip. 52.Ease of use. UI is bad. But it's easy to use once you read the instructions. 43.Cost of ownership : only money spent to increase tip selection. Still all original parts. 54.Customer service? N/A. But they have better Website5. I did. To have second iron for travel/backup. 56. Temp control. Seems fine to me. Swapping handpiece between stations, you might need to recalibrate, if you care about absolute accuracy. 5.7. 8 years ish on the analog version. 4 yearish on the digital. All 100% original parts, no issues. Average usage of ~3/4 lb solder per year, leaded.

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 08:05:52 pm
content: Thanks for the review.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 10:28:45 pm
content: I had several people recommend the Hako over the Weller and bought the Hako for myself. The EEVblog discount at TEquipment helped with shipping.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 10:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 01, 2017, 07:45:33 pmUnfortunately, the WES51 & WES51D have higher defect rates than the Hakko FX-888D (both DOA stations & ~30% rapid failure rate on tips). It's not endemic across all of Weller's products, just those made in Mexico and Bosnia (LT series tips used in my WSP80 iron). Tips & stations from Germany are fine, as are tips from Japan and the US (they're also more expensive; go figure).Regarding shipping, TEquipment offers free shipping for orders that are $99 or more for the continental US. So adding a few tips to the order will get you there.Unfortunately, this perk won't apply to the OP.

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 10:38:19 pm
content: If you have the time could you rate your Hakko so I have an idea about how you feel about the points listed.Tequipment has good prices, but even with the code the cost of Hakko is $98 then if I remember $3- - $40 shipping then CAN to US dollar exchange is 80%. It is cheaper for me to purchase at a local store and give them my support. If it was a lot cheaper, I would go with Tequipemnt.And if i need to return item it does not cost me anything.ThanksHave a day

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 03:56:44 pm
content: Was just wondering, did I ask the wrong question, or do people not like rating there Hakko or Weller soldering stations.So far Hakko is the winner, had not read anything from a weller user.If the rating list is to long, and if you own either of the two stations at lease give the one you like the best, give it an over all rating of 1 - 5Thanks

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 04:58:57 pm
content: Don’t ask me why, but personally I absolutely dislike Weller gear. It is not really because of any performance issues but the look and feel just don’t push the right buttons. The Hakko FX is a good tool on a budget (sort of) and maybe the Ersa I-Con / Pico series might also be interesting for you. I would go with an Ersa or Hakko any day, but try to stay away from Weller unless there is no alternative and I absolutely have to.Regards,Frederik

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 06:14:24 pm
content: Quote from: RissViss on August 04, 2017, 03:56:44 pmI didn't think it fair to compare my Weller WD series to entry level models. It's effectively aWD1002T(incl. the stop-n-go stand) with a WMP iron & stand added. In regard to performance, it has more power, heats up & recovers faster, and has additional features not available on what you're looking at (uses a switched stand for full setback features). Overall, I'm happy with mine but I've also a lot more money tied up in it, and the Hakko FX-951 hadn't been introduced yet (one heck of a value in North America as it can be had for ~$240 shipped).Sticking to those two models however, I'd recommend the Hakko over the Weller. The trade-off is dealing with a less intuitive UI in favor of better tips (they can last for more than a decade with proper care). And as you're not likely to change temps all that often, it's the better compromise IMHO.Ersa makes really good gear as well, and their tips last a long time. Unfortunately, it's harder to find here in North America and it's more expensive than either stations you've been looking at.What kind of boards will you be working on (i.e. # of copper layers, heavy ground & power planes or not,...)?I ask, as this will help determine the level of performance you really need. For example, if you'll be doing single & double sided PCB's, then either station you've been looking at will be just fine. They can do 4 layers too if there aren't large copper pours as well & have adequate reliefs (ground & power for the inner 2 layers). Past that however, and you'll need a station with better performance.There's also the cost of consumables to consider as well (i.e. tip costs). Cartridge tips (tip + heating element + sensor assy.) are more expensive than simple plated pieces of copper as a general rule; the one exception is the T15 series from Hakko (i.e. common profiles are ~$11 - 15 per rather than ~$30 for Weller or JBC).If you've specific questions about my stuff, just ask.

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 06:39:54 pm
content: For soldering jobs, I have right now is single and double sided through hole, and some smt work.Just starting out in electronics.The job I need it for right now is replacing the switches in my Logitech m570 mouse. The switches are garbage and even if you get a new one has to be replaced to make it work for drag drop functions. I have 2 of these mice and with my friends mice there is another 6 mice to fix, total of 8.I have a Chinese version of the Hakko 936 in transit, but Canadian post likes it more then me and it is over do on its shipping date.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 08:00:49 pm
content: Then I'd recommend you get the Hakko and some tips.Basic Tip Set:Chisels:(T18 series)T18-D16(1.6mm) This one comes with the station.T18-D24(2.4mm)T18-D32(3.2mm)There is one wider (T18-S3, which is 5.2mm) as well as a couple of smaller ones (T18-D08 & T18-D12; 0.8mm and 1.2mm respectively), should you need any of these at some later date.Drag soldering:You'd be surprised at how many different shapes can do this (pick one).T18-CF3This one can do more (makes an excellent general purpose shape, and is a favorite of mine). Note this is the tinned face only version, which is better suited to drag soldering vs. standard bevels where the plating comes up the side as well.T18-KThe knife can also be used with passive SMD parts.900M-T-3CMThis one is designed specifically for drag soldering (has a spoon/hollow in the face that holds a ball of molten solder).You'll be surprised at just how much you'll be able to do with just these sizes & shapes.Others I find useful are a single fine point conical for tacking down corner pins on IC's, bent conical (for drawing out a bridge from drag soldering, tacking corners, passive SMD parts, or very fine point-to-point on IC's such as attaching a bodge/test point wire to an IC pin, and a bent chisel or two (better ergonomics for cup terminals in wire connectors). Not a massive number even if you add any of these.Hakko's Tip Selection Pagemight also be really helpful as well.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 11:45:17 pm
content: I have probably bought around 25 or 30 different types of tip for my Hakko and ended up giving away half of them. I keep 16 tips on the bench and mostly use 6 or so of them. 5 of them start with "CF," (which I think is every one they make). They are absolutely great for drag soldering. But they are absolutely great for 95% of SMD work other than drag soldering.QuoteFYI, the iron jacket goes all the way around the entire tip. On the CF, it's the chrome plating that extends farther down the sides of the tip, so that only the face can be tinned.regarding CF tinned face only: The beauty of this is that the solder can't wrap around the edge of the face. It's stuck on an oval face, where surface tension will cause it to form a rounded bead. This does several things. You control where the solder is/goes; when you turn the tip sideways or upside down, the solder bead moves with the face. The solder stays fresh longer, because of minimal surface area to volume. Just keeping the work flowing is enough to keep the tip/solder wet with minimal fuss and cleaning. Also, the "regular" position with the face down puts the solder bead at the spot where flux is naturally going to collect and drip off via gravity. A regular tip has large areas of tin-able surface just baking with high exposure to oxygen, because of the higher surface area of solder... and what for? Gravity and surface tension means the solder naturally gravitates to one small ball (on a pointy conical, the bead is annoyingly far away from where you want it to be.. versus 1mm CF, where the bead is at the very tip and can't be otherwise). It doesn't magically form a uniform coat over the entire conical/wonky tinnable surface. And that solder on the tip will get crusty and immobile and extrude itself into various pointy, useless shapes or cold-solder, more quickly. The most major drawback is that you have to turn the tip just so in order to feed solder onto it. I mostly pickup solder from a "rosin board." And for drag soldering, the major advantage is that when you pull the tip away fro the joint, it doesn't allow solder to wrap around the corner/sides, so it doesn't leave stringy cold bridges.Going back to the very beginning, with my first Rat Shack firebrand, this is essentially how I initially soldered. Take a file to the lump of pure oxidiazed copper, and file a small flat oval spot on it. And that is the tinned face only, which lasts 5 or ten minutes. Rinse and repeat. I moved on to temp controlled station, and this amazing tip/ability was gone. Until I discovered CF tips. And things went full circle.This is why I can't even entertain the thought of using a Weller WES51. No CF/BCF tips. I use these tips for probably more than 90% of my soldering, which is admittedly mostly SMD stuff. But larger one, such as CSF25 or CF3 is very capable for thru hole, too.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2017, 01:23:29 am
content: Like Nanofrog, I didn't originally comment either. I had a 936, the analogue predecessor to the 888 and now have a FX-951, which is far ahead of the 888. I owned the 936 for 7 years and it was a great station and its current owner loves it too. I sold it because I wanted something better, no other reason than that. Nanofrog is spot on with the tip selection. I had the same chisel tips for the 936 and have them for the 951. Almost all of my soldering is through hole so I don't have anything for drag soldering, but if that changes, I will be looking at the same basic tips that are mentioned. I believe you will be very happy with the Hakko. I am happy with my Hakko purchases. Truth be told, I do like my Metcal MX-500 a little better but I only own it because I got a ridiculous deal that was too good to pass up. I did a lot of soldering with my 936 and still had all the original tips from when I bought the station. A little bit of care and they simply last. I can't speak to Weller as I have never owned one.

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 07:00:10 pm
content: Thanks everyone for the info and help.Looks like the Hakko is the winner.Picking up on Aug 10 2017If the one I purchased from china (936 copy)ever is let out of the Canada Post nightmare, will just use that one for really mess work like punching holes in plastic etc. Save the Hakko FX for proper jobs.

author: RissViss
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 01:26:14 am
content: Just wanted to give my impressions of the Hakko FX 888DPackaging was great.When I got it home plugged it in watched a few vids to see how to get into Preset modes.Setup all the presets that I wanted.Then got out a very old damaged mouse to replace the switches, to test, before working on my daily use mouse the M570. De soldering the switched was very fast and clean, using solder wick. Put three new switches in the mouse and soldered one leg on each, then soldered all three legs on the switch. I was blown away with how nice easy and clean my solder was compared to using a stick iron. After doing this job and finding out the mouse I had used for years and loved to use was working better then new, Just wanted to go and fix everything I could find to keep using, but had no time, will do some more tomorrow.The Hakko is worth every penny I spent on it and more.The UI takes a few youtube vids to learn, but after you have it setup it works good.This is my most expensive electronics tool so far and it is worth it.When a tool takes a job that was very frustratingand long, and makes it easy and fun is way worth it.From this point will have to spend more on good equipment then spending less on iffy cheap equipment. Will take longer to get the good equipment, but worth it in the end.If you can not tell, I am very happy and excited with this purchase.Thanks for everyone's input.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 01:55:47 am
content: Good choice. There's a reason why you see plenty of Hakko clones, but almost no Weller clones. I'd actually choose a 936 clone over a Weller.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 01:04:29 pm
content: [quote author=RissViss link=topic=92815.msg1278091#msg1278091 date=150241477is is my most expensive electronics tool so far and it is worth it.When a tool takes a job that was very frustratingand long, and makes it easy and fun is way worth it.From this point will have to spend more on good equipment then spending less on iffy cheap equipment. Will take longer to get the good equipment, but worth it in the end.If you can not tell, I am very happy and excited with this purchase.Thanks for everyone's input.My father was a construction worker and depended on his tools. He also did some very serious home improvement in our house. He taught me from a very young age to buy the best tool you can and only buy it once. I have tried to live by that all my life. It is worth the wait to get the proper tool. The cheaper, "almost good enough" costs so much more in lost productivity, frustration and finally, the added expense of buying what should have been bought in the first place. Having the right tool makes the task at hand pleasant, even fun. Enjoy your Hakko

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 07:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on August 11, 2017, 01:55:47 amNo, there are plenty of Weller clones (at least aesthetic clones) , most of them are Hakko clones in a Weller like (light blue) box.After many years (40?) of Weller use I must admit that quality (at least for the less expensive station I own) has gone down. I know that my WS81 and WDS81 stations will not outlast the older Magnastat units. Everything seem to oxidize : from tips to tip retaining tubes.Also the short exposed tip make it difficult to reach in crowded places without burning everything with the big heated barrel (I know that longer tips are available, but they cool too quickly).Never used or owned an Hakko, but tough about buying one: here in Italy I can buy 3 FX 888 D stations for the price of one Weller WDS81....Weller units sold in North america are different from those sold in Europe, so maybe they are better, but I don't know.Best regards

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 08:49:18 pm
content: Having poked and prodded my (US/110V) 888's extensively, the part that is most impressive/costly is surely the transformer. It has the best regulation I have ever seen in a transformer. Once it has warmed up, there's something like less than 1V sag (PEAK!) when the heater switches on, which draws roughly 2A. Yes, there's a load resistor on the pcb to take out the true no-load slack (this is what makes prolly 98% of the heat in the station), but this is still very impressive to me, given the size of the transformer vs the load. I haven't played with a lot of transformers, but I have seen worse and I have seen a lot worse. Considering my sum total experience with transformers, it took a couple seconds to process. And I had to check to be sure my scope was actually on "run." Looking at the waveform, you can't even see a change with the naked eye.When the transformer has warmed up, the voltage is exactly 44.4V peak. It doesn't appear they made many compromises in the transformer, and perhaps they slipped the P2P voltage into the name.