Recommendation for Micro 4/3 camera & lenses for the blog - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:12:12 am
content: As stated, I want to set up a new photography teardown bench and figure I need a new Micro 4/3 camera.This is to replace my Olympus E-510 and my Samsung WB2000 pocket for field work.Requirements:- Charge from standard micro USB. I'm sick of running out of battery, finding stupid custom leads, or taking extra kit to charge in the field. Big battery life is a plus.- Standard kit lens that is quite wide angle (for close quarters field work), <25mm would be nice. Could get a separate wide angle lens, but prefer if the standard lens does it.- Articulating screen- Good macro lens. The closer I can get to stuff the better, and the smaller the field of view the better. A big zoom lens with good macro capability perhaps?- WiFi. Something that can auto-upload to Flickr etc. Sure I can use an Eye-Fi card, but better if built in.- Good video mode with good mic, just in case I need to use for video. I like camera with separate video record button.I want a small micro 4/3 so I can carry it around easily if needed, and figure I likely need interchangeable lens as it will allow a good proper macro lens.I don't really care about arguments over image quality etc, virtually any camera on the market is good enough, even pockets.Any recommendation on camera and lenses?Thanks.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:24:57 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 04, 2014, 11:19:08 amYes, I notice this with my Opteka x10 macro lens on my video camera at full zoom, and it's annoying.QuoteYep, I certainly want a proper macro lens. I have one for the Olympus E-510.QuoteThat is practically a killer!Otherwise its sounds good.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:30:49 am
content: I've yet to see any camera that charges via USB - I don't understand why - OK it may charge more slowly but it's a ridiculous omission - I can only assume it's one of those "it's always been that way" type of things.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:36:57 am
content: The Panasonic DMC-G5 looks good too, but also no USB charging, what a pain.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:43:20 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 04, 2014, 11:30:49 amAgreed, just stupidTake today for example going to the TV station. I only found my custom Samsung connector to USB cable at the last minute and my compact camera battery was dead of course, so I could therefore charge in the car on the way there. Actually I did it from a portable USB power source in my bag which I always carry, so I can recharge my phone, tablet or other device on the go. I've standardised on USB charging for everything, hence my obsession with this, it drives by buying decision for almost everything.

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:47:34 am
content: Samsung NX300 ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:49:40 am
content: The Sony NEX-3N charges from USB apparently:http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/17/sony-nex-3n-review/And if that one does, presumably other Sony NEX's as well?The sony macro lens looks cheap too, and 2.4cm minimum distance at 1:1http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/astore/Sony-E-30mm-f35-Macro-Lenses.aspx?afid=7&gclid=CLbUvd265LsCFUZapQodsysAwA#.Usf2I_QW384

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:05:45 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 04, 2014, 12:01:57 pmThat's ok, doesn't really have to be m4/3, I just need to change lenses and it to be fairly small.Samsungs macro lens is pretty expensive.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:29:56 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 04, 2014, 12:20:47 pmBecause every time I want to take my camera somewhere, the batteries are dead, and I don't have time to charge them. Like the situation I mentioned above. It's a PITA. I virtually never want to recharge a spare battery whilst shooting. And I don't want to carry another thing (USB charger cradle) in my bag everywhere.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:33:48 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 04, 2014, 11:44:40 amI was just about to say that almost all of the unbranded Chinese cameras you can find have this feature. The battery is usually not easily removable either, so maybe it's not a feature but a necessity.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:43:14 pm
content: Do the batteries charge with 5v into the camera? How about a micro usb socket on a board and a charger plug on it to use the micro usb charger you have. Small, light weight and easy to keep in the camera bag.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 01:15:37 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 04, 2014, 12:57:38 pmBut that's only ONE thing I need to remember to keep charged up that can charge half a dozen other things.If you can't see the value in having standardised charging across all your stuff, then I'm not sure what else I can tell you. It's a big deal to me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 01:40:28 pm
content: Hmm, the Olympus 60mm macro lens seems to be getting rave reviews, so that brings me back to m4/3http://www.teds.com.au/olympus-pen-60mm-f2-8-macro

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 01:43:18 pm
content: With the charging thing, I must say that my Canon video cameras do not have USB charging. I compensate for that by having BIG battery packs (500+ min worth) and multiple ones. I've done multi day video shoots without having to take a charger at all.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 01:53:21 pm
content: How about getting a camera that uses the existing packs? Saves on the things to charge.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 02:09:18 pm
content: One solution to the USB charging problem is to make/buy/bodge a small standalone usb battery charger - e.g. a clip that fits the battery instead of a full holder, and make it small enough to permanently live on the camera's lanyard.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 02:10:29 pm
content: Faced with the same problem and a camera that is otherwise perfect, I would either build a USB to 'whatever' adapter board or modify the supplied mains charger for USB input. This is easily done on Canon Chargers as you just feed in after the SMPSU section.A buck boost converter is so small and cheap these days that a really useful little converter could be built around one of the Chinese boards that are available cheaply. I do not look at USB as anything but a source of 5V at a stated current capability

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 02:13:59 pm
content: With a 3D printer + brain full of electronics experience + a bit of hardware modding, that isn't a big problem is it ?

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 05:50:45 pm
content: - Charge from standard micro USB. I'm sick of running out of battery, finding stupid custom leads, or taking extra kit to charge in the field. Big battery life is a plus.You aren't going to get that with MFT. I know you said it doesn't need to be MFT, but MFT is what I know- Standard kit lens that is quite wide angle (for close quarters field work), <25mm would be nice. Could get a separate wide angle lens, but prefer if the standard lens does it.There isn't much for this re: MFT. Wide angle zoom on MFT is very expensive and limited, or very slow aperture. (look at the Panny 12-35 f/2.8, Panny 7-14mm). If you are fine with a slow lens - shots outdoors or of static scenes - maybe you can find a deal on the Oly 9-18mm? This should provide a very wide view to a wide normal. (disclaimer: my most used lens is my Canon 16-35mm - I like wide) Another idea is an EM-5 with 12-50mm kit to save money (but no wifi), but I don't know what you want for "small" or what your budget is - this would be significantly smaller than your E-510, but it isn't pocketable...then again, a "kit zoom" on any of the bodies isn't really pocketable (maybe, barely, the Panny X 14-42)- Articulating screen- Good macro lens. The closer I can get to stuff the better, and the smaller the field of view the better. A big zoom lens with good macro capability perhaps?Has been discussed already- WiFi. Something that can auto-upload to Flickr etc. Sure I can use an Eye-Fi card, but better if built in.Most of this year's cameras have this already, although in the MFT world the implementations aren't that great- Good video mode with good mic, just in case I need to use for video. I like camera with separate video record button.Video is pretty good to stunning on the whole current lineup of MFT bodies, and all (I believe?) have dedicated record buttons.AS FOR A SUGGESTION?Panny DMC-GX7 with Oly 12-50mm, Oly 60mm macro, Rokinon 7.5mm fisheye, some spare batteries...But your best bet is to go hold some and see what you really want or need for size

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:02:44 pm
content: Quote from: true on January 04, 2014, 05:50:45 pmYes, I"m starting to realise that just because a camera has WiFi doesn't actually make it useful.I have yet to find one that support Flickr for example.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 04, 2014, 02:13:59 pmSure, but why would I want to waste my time dicking around with such a thing?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:43:48 pm
content: The Olympus PEN's don't have a fully articulating screen for selfies, so they are out.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:59:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 04, 2014, 10:03:24 pmMaybe because no one makes exactly what you desire ? BUT you can adapt your list of requirements or create a solution that fills the gap that existsSimples

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:46:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 04, 2014, 10:43:48 pm*Some* of them do, olympus makes 3 different series of Pen types.. Also don't discount OMD M5 .. it has much faster AF with Real 4/3 lenses (and 4/3 macro 50mm oly is amongst sharpest ever) and IIRC it also has artuculating screen.On µ4/3 if you need video, go for panasonic, for photos Olympus.PS: Did you know there are also professional quality µ4/3 video cameras available these days.. Not that your videos are any bad, but just in case you happen to be interested?

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 06:01:00 am
content: Not sure if they are available for 4/3 format (I use only SLR cameras: 5DMKII), but if you need to make lots of shots in macro, I warmly suggest to try to find a(double) telecentric macro lens*.This kind of lenses are very well suited for technical shots like in your videos.some more details:http://www.opto-engineering.com/resources/telecentric-lenses-tutorialhttp://www.edmundoptics.com/technical-resources-center/imaging/telecentricity-and-telecentric-lenses-in-machine-vision/?&viewall*) they will be surely expensive!

author: Orpheus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 06:30:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 04, 2014, 10:03:24 pmI dick around with such things because power supplies and converters are used in almost every project I build. It's trivial second nature, no different than choosing the right transistor or bias resistor. If I didn't want to dick around with it, I'd just be a consumer. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not me.Besides, Chinese buck, boost or buck/boost converters are only a buck ortwo now, and many have eBay pics good enough to evaluate their build quality/modifiability. Yeah, I know you can't *see* clones and mystery shift parts, but I haven't encountered those in relatively low power (<2A) converters for a while. The markup isn't worth it at present, I guess.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 02:08:37 pm
content: Some comment on USB as a charging medium....I will likely be controversial here so remember this is MY view and others have theirs.Mini and Micro USB connectors were designed to provide primarily a data pair and a low-ish current supply to accessories of computer. Manufacturers used them as just that in the beginning, but as time has moved on the manufacturers of some appliances such as Mobile phones started to use them as a charging connector as well.Take a look at a mini or micro USB connector (and possibly the standard large USB as well) and ask your self how it compares in mechanical contact terms to say the standard Power plug used on many equipment's. The USB connector is, IMHO, a very poor replacement for a decent 2 pole power connector. When manufacturers start trying to pass over 2A through the tiny contact area inside a Micro USB (as FLIR do with the EX camera) I do have to wonder what on earth they were thinking.In short, I consider charging at decent currents for Li-Ion batteries (as is common now) using what is a pretty cr*ppy USB connector is poor design and not to be considered desirable if good engineering practice is also desired.There could be a VERY good reason why Dave is finding it hard to find a suitable high quality camera that has a usb charging connector.....its a bad idea that is left to low quality products that are just trying to save money by using a data connector as a charging input as well !Before anyone quotes the data sheet specs for a micro or mini USB connector contact current rating, ask yourself whether the maximum current rating is one you would be happy with for reliable long life performance.As I said....likely controversial but my view all the same.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 02:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 04, 2014, 10:03:24 pmAlthough few others already addressed it, here are my words.So you can choose or even better focus on camera which has more essential features that fits in your need especially like for macro photoshoots in the studio, rather than have this usb charging limitation ties up your hand in making the decision on which camera.C'mon Dave, a creative thinking + minor hardware modding + 3 D printer should be easy to turn your camera powered by an AC adapter or usb rather than have to use the battery. And the battery will be untouched and only for shooting outdoor.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 02:57:14 pm
content: As an addition to my last....I attach the SAMTEC ruggedized connector data sheet for Mini and Micro USB connectors.....Key info...... 1A rated contacts with an estimated life of only 1500 cycles.High end charging performance on a digital camera...I think not.

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:29:34 pm
content: Sorry to contradict you, but Micro-USB is rated for10000(10k) connecting cycles and a maximum current of 1.8A on power pins (see datasheet you linked).see also:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Mini_and_Micro_connectors_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _See attached excerpt from official USB consortium documents:

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:52:31 pm
content: Hmmm OK, I read only the Mini USB spec.But as said before....take a close look at the contacts and decide for yourself whether you consider them a good bearer for charging Li-Ion batteries. The large players in camera technology appear to think not

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:05:26 pm
content: I have attached in my previous answer an excerpt from the official USB documentation.I continue to be not in agreement with your opinion: this kind of connector was designed EXACTLY for charging needs*.Even if not "standard", you can use also the other pins (in parallel) if you need more current: take a look to the USB specification*) obviously I'm not talking about chinese crap!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:53:00 pm
content: @eliocor,No worries, We agree to differI am an electronics and mechanical engineer by trade so I sometimes differ with electronic equipment mechanical design. This is such a case, and the joy is that we both have our views and can voice them here.I still HATE micro USB connectors

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 07:02:53 pm
content: great system with a really great lens selection!panasonics have better video and are easier to use.olympus have better color/jpeg output, but menus are a bit trickier.ultimately differences in images aren't huge, more in the usability.I use the E-M5 which is a real workhorse! I wouldn't know how to reccomend any macro lenses, though. for macro I use an old manual kiron 105mm built for 35mm slrs, and attach it via adapter. superb macro lens, even if it's fully manual.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 10:16:25 pm
content: I have a Sony NEX-7. Nice camera. Has a lot of lens options (including legacy and lens from different manufacturers/systems using adaptors).Have a read of the review here.http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex7and thishttp://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51916076Not sure if it meets your requirements as it doesn't charge up via USB like all the rest.David.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 11:49:39 pm
content: Thanks for all the suggestions. Finally got myself a Sony NEX-5TOnly $549 at JB'sAnd yes, it charges from standard Micro USB

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 11:52:59 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on January 05, 2014, 02:08:37 pmTell that to Sony and Samsung who are at least two major major manufacturers who have switched to Micro USB charging.It's good enough for phones, it's good enough for cameras.QuoteThe micro USB connector is designed for high insertion reliability.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 11:59:02 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 30, 2014, 11:52:59 pmCompletely off topic but knowing the above why is it that of all the usb cables and plugs I have nearly every one with a micro connector is dodgy

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 12:01:29 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on January 30, 2014, 11:59:02 pmDunno. I have not had a single one fail.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 12:09:11 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 31, 2014, 12:01:29 amhmm... maybe I should stop being such a tight arse, I suspect anybody can stamp a USB logo on something