HP/Agilent 1675x logic analyzer card memory up-hack - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 02:18:42 am
content: In the course of repairing some 1675x cards, I discovered that HP/Agilent is using resistors to set the model ID, and hence the capture memory size on these old logic analyzer cards. The main clues were:- All models already have the full complement of memory for their series,- There was sloppy soldering work (solder splatter, flux residue) on unpopulated resistor pads that were in an obvious grouping (indicating that some had been removed after manufacture),- The only indication of the model number was a solitary adhesive sticker,- And finally, HP/Agilent is known to use ID resistors in other products.I haven't seen this info anywhere else, so I'm posting here.I've verified the following ID conversions work (with full memory testing):16751A --> 16752A16754A --> 16756A16755A --> 16756ASpecs and other details for the cards discussed in this post:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5968-9661E.pdf----------Series: 16750A, 16751A, 16752AMemory: 34 x Micron 48LC4M16A2-8EMax model: 16752A with 32MSaThere are nine ID resistor footprints arranged in a column: R735, R65, R66, R68(?), R63, R73, unlabeled, R78, and R82. They are near the pair of Altera LQFP's near the backplane connector. (It's possible R735 does something else besides ID, but it's unpopulated and near the others so I'm including it.) To make a 16752A, all the resistors are populated except R735, R66, R63, and R82. Resistors are 1k 0805.There are also "B" versions of each of these cards. The (bad) photos I can find look like they have the same layout, so I would expect it to work with them also with possibly different resistor labels or combinations (maybe one controls the A vs. B?).----------Series: 16753A, 16754A, 16755A, 16756AMemory: 18 x Micron 46V16M16-75Max model: 16756A with 64MsaThere are eight ID resistor footprints arranged in a matrix: two rows A and B, and four columns 1, 2, 3, and 4. They are near the Xilinx FPGA U128, which is near the backplane connector. To make a 16756A, all resistors are populated except B3 and B4. Resistors are 1k 0805.There's also an EEPROM on this card, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with ID. It's probably only used for calibration data.----------Other Cards (which I don't have so I can't try it)The 16740A, 16741A, and 16742A from photos look very similar (perhaps identical?) to the 16750A/51A/52A series and with ID resistors in the same PCB area. Hopefully a 1674x owner can figure this one out since it might need different resistor positions populated. Please post your results if you try it.I'll also note that the 1674x and 1675x series cards are identical spec-wise except for memory configurations, occurrence counters, and maximum state speed. So, I suppose it's possible that a 1674x could be turned into a 1675x by using only ID resistors, but it would require a closer look at the memory configuration on the board and subsequent testing at higher speeds. Again, something for a 1674x owner to try.It may also be possible to turn a 16718A (8Msa) into a 16719A (32MSa), but I can't find enough photos to know if the board layouts and memory configuration are the same. The 16719A at least has a similar board layout to the 16740A/41A/42A and 16750A/51A/52A series, so it probably has ID resistors.Somewhat related to this topic, I've also heard of a hack to turn a 16533A 250MHz 1Gsa/sec scope card into a 16534A 500MHz 2Gsa/sec scope card via a resistor ID. If anyone knows the specifics, please feel free to share. Or if you have a 16533A, post a high-res photo (front and back) and I can probably figure it out from there.----------Good luck if you try any of this, and please post your results here if you do!

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 02:50:18 am
content: Interesting information. This is the first time I have seen this. Thanks for sharing.I'll have to check what types of modules I have. I think have all three of 16750, 16751, and 16752, and at least either a 16718 or 16719, or maybe both. Is the 16717 populated with a different memory configuration? Maybe only a 16741 from that line.I've never bothered doing a careful examination of differences between the modules myself.(I also have some of the 16753 - 16756 line that I have never used as I don't have any use for the 90-pin POD connectors).

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 02:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: gslick on September 22, 2017, 02:50:18 amNo problem; hope it's of some use.QuoteI have a 16717 and it's significantly different than the others. It has 34 x OKI M5416283 (256k x 16). That comes out to 2Msa (34 * 256k*16 / 68channels), which is the 16717 spec, so there's no additional memory to be enabled. Same with the 16715.I'm also noticing there's the 16710A (8k), 16711A (32k), and 16712A (128k) which I missed on the datasheet before. They also have the same specs except memory, so they may be a candidate too.There may also be opportunities for cards in the 16500 series, but I have zero experience with them. I think 16900 series card options are software controlled.QuoteThe 90-pin flying lead probe kits are outrageously expensive, which kind-of kills the attractiveness of those cards compared to the others. I'm looking at building some single-ended probe breakouts (some day) out of E5378A adapters. They're pretty cheap on ebay (~ $20), but I'll never get the kind of fidelity needed for the speeds of those cards.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 02:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: gslick on September 22, 2017, 02:50:18 amI don't think it would have occurred to me either. What tipped me off was reading the service manual for the 16755A I was repairing at the time. The manual covers all four 16753A/54A/55A/56A cards and talked about the use of 256Mbit DDR SRAMs for the acquisition memory. My lesser card would presumably not need all the memory installed, yet, it didn't have any unpopulated memory footprints. Hmmm... Why is that?

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2017, 01:14:53 am
content: You can also upgrade a 16533A scope board to a 16534A board with a resistor mod. Sorry, I can't find my notes on which resistors to change and no longer have a 16533A to compare to a 16534A. I seem to remember all the needed resistors were on the back.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2017, 01:35:45 pm
content: I remember adding up the memory installed on a 16750A once and figuring out is was much more than the specified memory depth. Good job on figuring out the resistor combinations, I could never find sufficiently high resolution pictures of the 16751/16752A cards to figure out the correct resistor combinations.The 1675xA and 1675xB are the only cases I know where cards with different models are supported in a mixed master/slave configuration (so 16750A and 16750B may be connected through ribbon cables as master/slave, unlike say a 16741A and 16750A. So I expect the 1675xA and 1675xB series to be very similar. Not sure what the exact difference is that triggered changing the model. A slight change in specifications?Quote from: MarkL on September 22, 2017, 02:05:07 pmWhat's the point of using the 16753+/16760 series if you are not using differential inputs or high speed? The factor two increase in memory depth compared to the 16752A is barely worth the hassle. The various adapters to single-ended Mictor or single-ended or differential Samtec are probably the only affordable solution with decent signal integrity. Many later HP logic analyzer boards have Mictor footprints on them, and you can obviously design in whatever connector you want on your own boards. The 90-pin flying lead pods are more complicated than the older 40-pin pods to improve signal integrity (not surprising, given that the 40-pin pods were designed in the late eighties).

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2017, 04:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: alm on September 23, 2017, 01:35:45 pmNot much, I agree. My mainframe came with a pair of 16751A, and a 16754A. I never really used the 16754A for anything. I later came across a broken 16755A for dirt cheap which I was able to fix mostly for the fun and challenge of it.One additional nice feature in the higher speed cards is the eye scan across all inputs, but again not something I've needed or currently have the appropriate probing for.No idea on the A vs. B versions. They look the same from all the photos I've seen, and a diff on the A and B service manuals reveals nothing.

author: fisafisa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2017, 11:34:38 pm
content: aaagh!as I suspected the 16533 can become 16534....anybody with high res pics of the back of a 16534?thanks

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 01:27:52 am
content: Quote from: fisafisa on September 25, 2017, 11:34:38 pmI think these are the guys:On 16534A: top side, near the Actel chip: R810=0 R809=1004On 16533A: R810=1004 R809=0I remember swapping two resistors... on the 16533A they were hand soldered at the factory.Also, there are at least two versions of the 16534 (A and A2)... one has a two PGA chips, the other has a single PGA chip and a chip that does not have pins... The different chip is labeled U508 and U509.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 03:14:46 pm
content: Quote from: texaspyro on September 26, 2017, 01:27:52 amGood memory! That seems to be the recipe!I took one of my 16534A cards and swapped R809 and R810. It became a 16533A.Using a 0dB reference point at 10Mhz, the 16534A had a -3dB point at 623MHz (not bad - I hadn't measured this before). When it became a 16533A the -3dB point was reduced to 346MHz. So, even back then it seems HP was doing their artificial limits on BW.Someone with a card manufactured as a real 16533A should double check this to make sure there's no other changes needed.QuoteThere's at least three versions that I've seen. U501 and U509 vary. U508, the trigger comparator, is either there or not. The comparator function and some driver circuitry for it around the U200 DAC appears to have been absorbed into U509 in some card versions.

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 05:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on September 26, 2017, 03:14:46 pmI originally found those resistors when, many years ago, I bought a couple of expansion chassis that had 4 x 16533A's in them. Last night I dug out a defective 16534A that I tried to back-grade to a 16533A to see if that made a difference (didn't) and spotted the swapped resistors. I originally thought the resistors were by one of the PGA chips... That was probably a different board I was remembering.

author: fisafisa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 10:52:49 am
content: Thanks.I will try the modification.

author: DocBen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2017, 08:15:06 pm
content: Hi there,I can confirm that a 16740a can be converted to a 16742a by removing one resistor. I used a picture of a 16742a.I also tried to convert it to a 16752b but that failed, probably because I only have 1.5k resistors and I think the resistors create a voltage divider so I probably had the wrong voltages.I will try again once I have some 1k resistors.

author: DocBen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 05:49:08 pm
content: Yatta!So I have finally gotten around to try to get a 16740a to be a 16752b.On my third attempt I succeed. (keep in mind however this just passes the self tests. I havent made any actual measurements with it so it might fail when doing actual work)from R735 to R82: - -RR-RRR-does it. (- open, R well, you know)I used 1K 0.1% Resistors just like they are used on the board

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 06:55:49 pm
content: Wow, that's interesting! Of the many possibilities for ID upping, I would have ranked the 16740A --> 16752B as having one of the least chances of actually working.Does your 16740A have the same amount of memory populated as a 16752B? The 16752A has 34 x Micron 48LC4M16A2-8E (4M x 16).

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 10:23:38 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on November 28, 2017, 06:55:49 pmI just took a look at the 16741A that I have. It has (34x) MT48LC4M16A2-75 64Mb (1 Meg x 16 x 4 banks) parts. So if my math is right that should be sufficient for 32M samples of 68 channels, even though the 16740A, 16741A, and 16742A are 1M, 4M, and 16M analyzers.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 11:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: gslick on November 28, 2017, 10:23:38 pmYour math is right: 34chips * 4M*16/chip = 2176M/68ch = 32M/chPlus you have the -75 version which is a 133MHz part and I have the -8E part in a 16751A which is 125MHz, so it would be reasonable to assume the upped 1674x cards can also do the full sample rate of 400Msa/s. Some verification testing from DocBen (or yourself, if you feel like playing with it), would tell for sure.That must have been some pretty fine segmentation in the market to make Agilent produce 6 different performance levels on essentially the same hardware. Go sales team!

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2017, 12:53:27 am
content: There is flux residue around the pads of two of the unpopulated resistors on my 16741A module. I wonder if those resistors were populated during manufactured and initial testing in a maximum configuration and then removed when the module was configured to be a 16741A.Does someone have a photo of a 16742A for comparison?

author: DocBen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2017, 09:44:34 am
content: Well it makes a lot of sense to have the exact same hardware, because it effectivly eliminates testing and designing of different products and eliminates the need for early product differentiation.So you can buy in bulk.I didnt try to solder in all resistors, but it will probably not be recognized by the analyzer (factory test setting?)Also if you think about: the memory is run of the mill Pc100/PC133 memory not even special temperature range or rad hardend. Even if they built 10000 cards thats not even 500k chips for the whole lifetime of the cards. A PC manufacturer back in the day probably used that per day or per week. Micron probably asked when they would stop sampling and start buyingI guess thats also the reason why all the other chips come in multiples: it is just cheaper (or you cant even get them in lower quantities).@gslick: I think that card was originally a different model. might have been a 16750b not sure.forgot to take a picture of my card when I modded it to be a 16742a but I think R68 belongs at R63 not sure. ebay constantly wants to give me a free iphone so I cant look at the pictures of 16742a there right now, but you can give it try

author: DocBen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2017, 04:33:38 pm
content: I just checked what kind of equipment you need to actually verify specs (from the service guide):- a pulse generator with 200 MHz (still reasonable) with 2.5 ns pulse width and < 600 ps rise time (and i'm out)- a digitizing oszilloscope (check) with >= 6 GHz bandwidth, < 58 ps rise time (and i'm out)so at least an "offical" verification is off the table for me.I might do some experiments with an FPGA ( upduino when (if) I get it ) as it supposedly has a 275 MHz PLL onboard that can drive an I/O pin. Maybe clock doubling with an XOR gate from potato semi and a clock buffer. That setup could in theory reach 800 MHz but I don't have an oscilloscope that can verify that so

author: DocBen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2017, 08:04:51 pm
content: the 16960As have a similar feature it seems. There is a field of resistor rows above the main ASIC.And it is suspiciously different for 4M and 16M cardsNow I only have to unbrick the three I have. Maybe I'll get to that this weekend, maybe next.Does anybody have the (native) 100M version of the card?I think there is different resistor value on there. Mine are all blu, dont know the value yet, but on pictures the first resistor of the second row looks different on the 100M card. But maybe thats just the pictures I saw on ebay.

author: CatCow
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2017, 06:45:58 pm
content: Glad I saw this thread today... I was working on my 16903A/16910A this morning, after finally obtaining some parts as an experimental repair. Got a good deal on it from eBay, has two 16910A cards - 250MHz state, 256k memory on one and 4M memory on the other. The 4M card had a large number of memory errors. It may not be the memory, but I decided to try replacing those chips - my first attempt at SMT rework. Well there are also clock errors, and now after the "repair" another memory chip is throwing errors.I noticed that there is a similar pad of jumpers for the board ID to the older models... Two rows of six small blue SMT jumpers. I didn't remove one to measure, got about 4.2k ohms across an installed one. As seen in the attached photo, the 4M 250MHz card has all jumpers in place except B6. I didn't take a photo of the 256k, but it had all jumpers except B5. Given the failed attempt at repair and other more difficult to diagnose/repair problems on the board, I will probably attempt to play with the jumper locations and see what happens. If it works out well, maybe it will be worth trying to hunt down the clock error...

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 05:49:39 am
content: One thing that is different about the 16910A module is that it can be upgraded in the field by the customer by installing a software license. Possibly the licensed sample depth / state speed configuration is stored in the serial eeprom along with the serial number.If you were adventurous and have multiple 16910A modules to experiment with maybe you could try removing and reading the serial eeproms to compare the contents between multiple modules. Maybe there would be obvious differences for the module serial numbers, any maybe some not quite as obvious differences for licensed sample depth / state speed configuration option differences.

author: CatCow
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:38:17 pm
content: Well the 16910A looks to be more controlled by software than hardware as you suspected. I did manage to break it enough to say that it was an invalid board(and an FPGA error message that wasn't showing up otherwise), but anything that worked was not recognized as a different spec module. I may spend some time tracing the clock signals and see if there is anything to be done there for trying to make the board operational, otherwise I see a lot of clock fanout chips that may find their way into a GPSDO project(would be just my luck if that was the bad part). Bridging all the pads has brought it back to a point where it will be recognized, but unless I find a cheap board on eBay to go in it, I'll probably just use the single working board. Not exactly limiting for what I might use it for.

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 04:32:17 pm
content: Did anyone who has both 16717A and 16719A boards ever find the time to compare to see it the 16717A can be upgraded too (I'm up for upgrading the ROM ICs if I can find suitable ones).If necessary I can pull a 16717A from the analyzer and take pix.Or are the 16718A/19A different beasties altogether?ThanksDave

author: csc316
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 11:23:51 am
content: I can confirm that converting a 16533a 1GSa oscilloscope board to a 16534a 2GSa board is as simple as swapping resistors R809 and R810. Just did it.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:57:28 pm
content: I just became a member as of now.Here is a shot of the resistor option configuration on my 16742A.As far as I can see, the 1675X and 1674X PCB are the same, see images.I would suspect that hp (Agilent) loads what software is need for a 75X over a 74X by it's ID Type.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:59:28 pm
content: So far as I can see, from my 16750A and 16742A, they are simply the same PCB.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 03:48:38 am
content: I use the 16720A PG as a pulse generator to test my LA boards. Does a really good job.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 06:45:18 pm
content: Quote from: Patrick.M on April 02, 2018, 03:48:38 amThanks for the photos, Patrick.Are you going to up-hack your 16742A to be a 16752A? DocBen, a few posts back, was successful in getting a 16740A to be a 16752B, but was unable to do detailed testing to make sure everything worked at 1675x speeds. Perhaps you can do some testing if you decide to modify your 16742A?

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 07:06:39 pm
content: Quote from: perdrix on February 13, 2018, 04:32:17 pmI have a 16717A and it's nothing like the 16719A, looking at pictures on ebay. Also, a count of the populated memory on the 16717A says there's no unused memory laying around waiting to be activated.I've never heard of any options for upgrading memory chips on these cards. The memory is a 64-pin package and there's 34 of them. Seems like a lot of work even if it was possible.The 16719A looks a lot like the 1674x and 1675x series, but there's not sufficient resolution in the photos to figure out what memory is populated on it. One photo that's on ebay right now has a sticker indicating it's a 16719A. I wonder what's under the sticker...

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 09:37:38 pm
content: Mark,Not any time soon. I'm all good on the idea of unlocking sequestered memory, but not so sure that changing from a slower class to a faster class of a digital product actually works as well as expanding the memory. My pessimistic thinking here says one could be yield issues, say with the gate array, ADC driver with some fixed calibration for that unit that relegated it to a slower product class. Just thinking.With this, does anyone know if changing a16533A (250 MHz. 1Gs) scope to the 16534A (500 MHz. 2Gs.) with test results? I'm reluctant to do anything with mine. Even though I can see no differences between the two PCBs what so ever.

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 09:45:14 pm
content: Quote from: Patrick.M on April 02, 2018, 09:37:38 pmI don't have any formal test results, but I have been using some upgraded 16533A's for years without any issues. I just swapped the resistors and ran the calibration routine.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:34:02 pm
content: I'm fast becoming convenced it's the real-deal. I just wen't over my 1533A and 1534A and discoved that both have the same type markings on the chips. Two actually say 1534A on both boards. The front end attentuator module even has the same 1534A markings. I guess engineers are clever at geting components to do what we wan't them to do, so why shouldn't marketing engineers allow a feild engineer to perform an upgrade to lower end products, conveniently in the field, impressing certain customers who ghen may become very loyal.I'm doing the R swap today and will let youall know.

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 12:50:00 am
content: I once bought a couple of expansion chassis that had 16533A's in them. I noticed that those two resistors were hand soldered (flux residue) and the 16533A's had stickers for the model number applied over the 16534A on the board. That clued me in that it was upgradable. I checked a 16534 and found the resistor swap. I suspect that HP builds 16534's and downgrade them when somebody buys the low end version.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 01:49:08 am
content: I just finished a series of step response tests on the two scopes in the same chassis. One my stock (stickered) 16534A, the other my stock (stickered) 16533A with the resistor swap. I'm a believer and satisfied as both can do better than 1.5 ns. rise and fall times.What was that LA board I should speed up?

author: texaspyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 03:34:37 am
content: Quote from: Patrick.M on April 03, 2018, 01:49:08 amWhoopie!

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 04:44:03 am
content: There are a modest number of legacy products hp, Agilent produced that are truly timeless, still useful today (and more so) and has a high degree of sovereigncy. The 1670X series is indeed a member of this elete club. I say sovereign, because it can operate entirely on it's own grounds, quite compatable with the newest PC's that can run a decent Xterm program. I use mine somewhat professionally and academically.I can have big screen monitors on modern PCs with many of the tools on them from the 16700B running MobaXterm. Additionally, you can communicate directly with it via a number of methods under software control. I'm still learning all of it's untility. In my view, this helps make it very useful even though it takes time to boot and is big. I don't think the new replacement can do this and is still big and still takes time to bootup.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 03:43:31 pm
content: Now I'm wondering if the 54622A & D scopes have any resitor options. I have yet to look the PCBs over real good, but as I remeber, it was real easy to mix up the 60MHz. 54621A with the 100 MHz. 54622A PCB as they both fit into exacly the same chassis.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 06:31:54 pm
content: Unless I'm confused (easy to get so), your resitor line-up is different than what is shown in the original image that MarkL posted. I decided to move the resistors on my 16742A to that of a 16752A. The main frame reported an error trying to write to the FPGA. Fortunatly, restoring the resistors to the 16742A configuration reversed the problem where all tests out okay. Could you look into this, please? If anything to get my mind straight.I still work and am not able to spent much time with this, but seem to be getting the idea that retirment may be okay after all.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2018, 08:15:51 pm
content: Maybe there's some dependency on the exact model number after the dash.The number under the sticker on both my 16751A (now turned into 16752A cards), is 16750-65501, same as your 16742A.Did you try the resistor combination that I posted in the beginning of this thread?

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 04:05:12 pm
content: MarkL,Yes, with 1K resitors. This is the only, 16742A I have, so I'm being a bit carfull with it and was rather happy to see it operate again. I seem to have an overt fondness & respect for this legancy equipment that sticks in my mind, as I remeber all to well how unique and expensive it was in my earler years. Now my shop is awash in it, but only with what I use or really like to play with.The main frame is a 16702B (SN: MY42001077) with option 003, OS, Software: A.02.90.0016742A (SN: MY42000173)The upgrade on the scope from a 16553A to a 165534A wen't quite well as did my 16750A to 16752A.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 05:14:48 pm
content: Interesting that didn't work. Maybe there's some differences or changes elsewhere on your board that makes it a 16742A.One thing we've all noticed is that Agilent was quite sloppy in removing ID resistors to create the target board model. Do you see flux residue or sloppy soldering anywhere else on your 16742A besides the resistors already pointed out?Would you mind posting some high res photos front and back? Or since you have both models there, you could also compare the two up close.You have the same 16702B I have with the same software, so I don't think that's a factor. There should be no harm in moving the resistors around, other than the mechanical stress from soldering. But I understand your concern.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2018, 06:34:06 pm
content: Nope, boards were clean. I actually did post images of the two boards about three days ago. I'm still trying to figure out how to use this blog, so you may need to scan for them as I seem to have to rescan where I was when I make a reply (post) every time I gat back on.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 03:49:13 pm
content: Mark,So, I'm assuming you were sucsessful at moving your 16742A to a 16752A, yes?Sorry as It's a bit clumsy for me researching the blog for just posts from you. Perhaps it's because I'm using an iPad.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 04:10:31 pm
content: Quote from: Patrick.M on April 05, 2018, 03:49:13 pmNo, I had two 16751A and turned them into 16752A. DocBen reported he was able to make a 16740A into a 16752B here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hpagilent-1675x-logic-analyzer-card-memory-up-hack/msg1361396/#msg1361396I was only saying that since you and I both have 16750-65501 etched on the cards, I was expecting it to be the same base model but with different ID resistors. Since the 16752A ID combination didn't work for your 16742A, there must be something else that's making the cards different. I haven't seen an EEPROM on these models (unless I missed it), so I would look for a physical difference.

author: Patrick.M
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2018, 04:12:55 pm
content: I must have done somthing wrong, solder splash, or somthing. Once I have the time and interest to play with this again, I'll givite it another go. Meanwhile, I saw absolutely, as I can be, no physical differences between the one 142A and three 152A PCBs. The only difference are subtle marking differences (suffixes) on the larg Xlinx chips. Referencing the data sheet for this Xlinx series has not been any help either.

author: PrecisionAnalytic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 08:14:53 am
content: Quote from: csc316 on March 28, 2018, 11:23:51 amEarlier today I referenced this upgrade hack on the [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] groups.io post since work was being performed on similar systems and that reminded me about the HP16533A hack into a 16534A by just swapping two resistors and was just verified with images:https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equip…/message/96296Alexandre just made an English post also:https://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com/2019/05/repair-of-hp16533a-and-for-that-matter.htmlWhen I need to, or use, the HP 16601A... I'll have to keep this in mind and plan to perform. Was waiting until I was sure about the SCSI Pi or other Emulator system I was going to make so I can use an IDE (PATA) or better newer drive, i.e. SATA. Probably can use an SD card since the data transfer rate isn't so high... though read write cycles, longevity and integrity was more the goal.Anyone aware of any hacks for the 16601A?I was thinking:1. Making a SCSI emulator to update the drives2. Wondering what the memory upgrade opportunities3. Wondering about upgrading the motherboardI haven't read into the later two capabilities yet and have read there aren't schematics for the HP 1653X or 16601A.

author: schenkmi72
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 08:58:44 am
content: Quote from: DocBen on November 28, 2017, 05:49:08 pmI've try this on my 16740A but it didn't work for me. I already got an error while booting up and the self test says that it can't load the FPGA. I've tryied the 16742A ID resistores too but same issue. As it's a bit hard to acquire working 1674x cards I don't like doing more experiments.CheersMichael

author: SpacedCowboy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 11:59:25 pm
content: Just wanted to say thank you to those who originally posted thisI've just successfully bought a $100 16750A to go with a 16702B analyzer (which cost $340) and I now have a "16752A" board which on their own go for $900 or so.Disregarding the price, I can now sample a few full video-frame's worth of data coming off the bus, including all address lines, data lines and control lines. Excellent

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 01:21:12 am
content: A potential new up-hack has been found for the 16710A and 16711A modules, which can turn them into a 16712A. This is an increase from 8k and 32k samples, to 128k samples. These modules are all 100MHz state and 500MHz timing, and have a density of 102 channels per card (that's three pod connectors).I recently bought a 16712A module for really cheap, and I was able to change it into either a 16710A or a 16711A card by playing with R568 and R569. They're on the back near the backplane connector (see photo for location). As with all the other cards in this thread, the sloppy soldering and flux residue gave the ID resistors away immediately. Plus, in this case, a resistor termination was ripped off and left on the pad - nice!.I came up with the following table:Model R568 R569------ ---- ----16710A 1k 1k16711A open 1k16711A 1k open *16712A open open* - There are two combinations that are recognized as 16711A, butthis one is used on an actual 16711A, as seen on a picture fromebay.All self-tests pass for all combinations. I took a guess that the missing ID resistors were 1k.I'm saying this a POTENTIAL board hack, because taking a maxed out model and lowering its capabilities is not proof that it can go the other way (e.g., convert the lower two into a 16712A). It seems highly likely, however, given that this works with many of the other cards in the 167xx series.The 16712A uses 12 x 58L32L36F (32kb x 36), 6 of them on top and 6 on the bottom. This adds up to 12 x 32k x 36 = 14155776 bits, which is actually enough for 108 channels, so it's a little more than is needed. Maybe it uses the extra bits for testing or an internal purpose. But the point is, if the lower memory 16710A and 16711A cards also have this same memory complement, they should be able to be maxed out.Does anyone have a 16710A or 16711A who wants to try to make it a 16712A to verify all this? Please post back your results!

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2020, 06:46:11 pm
content: I have another 167xx series module up-hack. This one allows you to turn a 16716A into a 16717A.The 16716A and the 16717A are identical in features, except: 1) the 16716A is 512k samples and the 16717A is 2M samples, and 2) the 16716A is 167MHz state and the 16717A is 333MHz.Like other up-hacks in the 167xx series, the lesser 16716A has the full complement and same speed of memory consisting of 34x OKI M5416283-50 (256k x 16 bits). I believe the maximum state speed is artificially limited based on its configured model.I compared a 16717A card that I possess with on-line photos of 16716A and was able to find the ID resistor to turn my 16717A into a 16716A. The ID resistor removal by the factory on my 16717A card was a little neater than I have seen on other cards, and was easier to overlook. However, once identified it was quite clearly populated at manufacture time and then later removed.The ID change from 16716A to 16717A is accomplished by removing a single 0805 1k. See photo for location. The area from the photo is on the bottom of the card, near the backplane connector.Similar to the 16710A/11A/12A cards previously posted, this experiment is taking a card that is maxed out and then reducing it, so it's not proof-positive that it can go the other way, but I have no reason to believe it will not work going from 16716A to 16717A. If anyone has a real 16716A and performs this up-hack, please post your verification here.Related info: The 16715A card appears to be the same as the 16716A and 16717A cards except for the lack of the five timing zoom chips on top (1NB4-5040) and supporting zoom circuitry. I couldn't find any ID resistors or jumpers that are different on the 16715A, which makes me believe the software differentiates between the 16715A and 16717A by looking for the presence of the timing zoom chips.

author: keitheevblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2020, 03:29:31 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on June 24, 2020, 06:46:11 pmExcellent! Assuming my $15 16716A gets here on Saturday(as it's supposed to), and it tests OK, I may have some results on this as soon as this weekend!

author: danielbriggs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 02:19:43 pm
content: Continuing from the other 1690XA motherboard thread, it seems more appropriate for me to post here.I too think there must have been something stored in the EEPROM's for the user-upgradable action to happen on the 169x cards, however I am keen to have a poke around just incase it's something trivial like the resistor mods.My 16902A unit arrived yesterday, and it came with one 16910A installed. It was a bit of a "see what turns up" from the seller, but to my surprise the 16910A is a 500MHz state with 16M memory. Most of the eBay 16910A's I've seen have been 250MHz and low-ish memory depth, so keen to compare this to other 16910A cards to see if we can work out the upgrade combinations.I have attached some images below of the 16910A 500M State, 16M mem card resistor array combinations.Are any other users able to do the same of their 16910/11A's + list what state + memory depth?I think the 16910A's would be more useful than the 1675x's / 16950 due to the 40-pin probe support, vs the pricey 90-pin ones.I have also attached some images of my 16950A board ID resistors. The state timing for the 16950A's are fixed at 600MHz, but my board here has a mem of 64M. This would be nice to replicate on other boards as is the highest upgradable option.If you are able to do the same, again maybe we can work out what combination gives what?However:The board has a sticker over the PCB legend, saying 16950A. I peeled this back, and it turns out it is a 16974A, which has a listed stock memory depth of 4M.So I am curious to also see the board ID resistor combinations for a stock 16974A.Unfortunately my stock board ID seems to be different that MarkL's 16754A -> 16756A tested upgrade.I won't be able to power up the chassis for another day or so as waiting on some parts. So what the boards present in software will have to wait a day or two.All the best,Dan

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 06:42:38 pm
content: Some of my 16753A/54A/55A/56A boards have the same labeling as your 16950A, "16754-66510", and also underneath a sticker.One thing to note is that these boards have a Xilinx FPGA (U128) and a Xilinx configuration EEPROM to go with it (U129, the 44-pin PLCC). It looks like the EEPROM can be programmed after manufacture via either J1200 or P2, located nearby. There might be something in the FPGA programming that limits fiddling with the ID resistors and/or forces the board to be recognized as a 169xx series.There's also another EEPROM (U148), but it's possible that's only used for calibration data as implied in the service guide.64M is the max (full channel) depth for the 16753A/54A/55A/56A cards. You could count the memory chips on your 16910A card, look up the specs for the memory chip, and do the math to determine the max depth for it.If you're looking for more cards with 40-pin pod capability, according to the compatibility chart the 1690x chassis supports the 16740A/41A/42A, 16750A/51A/52A, and 16750B/51B/52B with OS 3.70 or later (4 pods/card). It's only the 16753A/54A/55A/56A and 16760A that are 90-pin in that series.Yes, it will be interesting to see what your chassis thinks about different resistor combinations. I can't help much since I don't have anything 169xx. Nice of them to label the board ID resistors for you!

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 09:29:40 pm
content: Removal of the Resister on a 16716A does indeed pass a 16717A self test.Removal of the Resister on a 16750A does indeed pass a 16752A self test.Now, just need to look to fix these 3 errors:Analyzer Chip Memory Bus TestSystem Clocks ( Master/Slave/Psync)Analyzer Memory Bus SU/HI have 4 751A all reporting same error, however, they all have had trace damages in different areas that have been fixed, but they all come back to the same 3 errors ..

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2021, 10:40:07 pm
content: Quote from: Hamster on April 02, 2021, 09:29:40 pmThanks for the confirmation.QuoteHave you looked at the detailed debug output from "pv"?Maybe start another thread to dive into it, or continue in the "167xx series defect" thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/series-defect-on-agilent-167xx-boards/msg3536318/#msg3536318

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 02:38:59 pm
content: 16911A "Memory upgrade"The Serial Eeprom on the underside of the board is for the Altere FPGAThe Unknown Part 16V08 ( Looks like a CPLD ) masquaring as a EEPROM appears to contain config data.I have a 16911A w/PSYNC clock failure, if i can't figure it out, i may try to power up the board and try to figure out how to read the EEPROM data from the Header Pins.

author: danielbriggs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 04:30:12 pm
content: I'm currently half way through working out how to "liberate" the 16910's (and assumed 11's).I was going to do a post on here about it once it was complete.But for now:I have 2x 16910A's. One which is licenced to 16MB Memory and 500M state, and another one that's a bit ill I'm repairing which is licenced to 256k and 250M state.I too thought it was the big EEPROM labelled "CONFIG EEPROM" U102 PN: XC18V04So I ordered a Xilinx USB programmer and tried to read the config EEPROMs. They are not protected, and you can freely read back the images.I've done this for both of my 16910's and the images are IDENTICAL.I extended the backplane via some chunky header cables and means I run the board up outside the chassis + peek around while a card is live. (Keep some form of external cooling on as the cards take quite a bit of power!)It turns out the actual licence data is held in a tiny Microwire / SPI type 2kb flash on the underside of the board.(M93C56)According to some documentation I found from Agilent, this 2kb EEPROM stores "serial number, calibration factors and memory depth enabled".I'm waiting on a few more parts to arrive, and will carry on the work + update you all with my findings as I go.What memory depth + 250/500 licence are all of your 16910/11's?All the best,Dan

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 06:35:35 pm
content: I have 250Mhz/4M 911a's and 2 250Mhz/256K 911a'swhich spi flash has the config? i assumed U90 was for the fpga config for Xilinix on the otherside of the board.i think if we can figure out the SIGN code in the license data, we could just generate the upgraded license files... I have 3 911A(s) i would love to upgrade to max Memory Depth. i have a 4th, but has a PSync Clock failure, which i can't seem to locate the fault.I also have had this mod done on 2 of my 911A(s) ) basically each board has this done 4 times , and 2 that do not have this mod done ( see attached )

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 06:53:29 pm
content: From my understanding, these cards could be field license upgraded.For Example here are the .lic files for my cards ( I have masked the Serial # and the last could of digits of the signage )#START LICENSE INFOFEATURE 16911_250MHz_State agilent 1.0 permanent uncounted HOSTID=ANY SN=MY44000XXX SIGN=B16B8826xxxx#END LICENSE INFO#START LICENSE INFOFEATURE 16911_4Meg_Samples agilent 1.0 permanent uncounted HOSTID=ANY SN=MY44000XXX SIGN=5B56C2D8xxxx#END LICENSE INFO^^ that card that had the 4Meg Samples still has the 256K memory sticker on it ^^

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:44:21 pm
content: For all those that need to recover licenses for the Agilent 168x(x)/169x(x), attached is the "secret sauce".It has been tested with the above licenses and should work with all others.

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:56:07 pm
content: Hmm, So what is Seed1 and Seed2 ? and i assume the Vendor is the Feature?Also, the u90 eeprom data:

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 09:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on May 24, 2021, 08:44:21 pmAre those the Seed1 and Seed2 values for the 16700 series analyzers, not the 16900 series analyzers?What do you do with that information? I have seen images of the "Generic FlexLM Crypt Generator v0.5 by Haldir" posted in other threads on the eevblog forum, but have never found any references to that anywhere else on the net. Where can a copy of that tool be found?

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 09:18:50 pm
content: gslick, so, looks like that is a key gen for the Flexeria LMUTils .. and looking at the LA software, it def uses it, i sent all my keys to him and he did verify the key gen..So its just a mater of figure out the feature codes.. I am assume the 16911 32M feature key is: 16911_32Meg_SamplesThe Serial Eeprom only holds the Serial # and 3 extra digits.. i am betting those 3 digits are just option flags. and lmutil decodes the feature key and then updates the Serial Eeprom ( or tells the LPA Service )as once the feature is enabled, it travels with the card.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 09:35:09 pm
content: Quote from: Hamster on May 24, 2021, 09:18:50 pmHere is the list of 16910 / 16911 feature names in the 3rd column below:Code:'16910A-256' HW 16910_256K_Samples : Acquisition memory depth of 256K # Node Locked'16910A-001' HW 16910_1Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 1M # Node Locked'16910A-004' HW 16910_4Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 4M # Node Locked'16910A-016' HW 16910_16Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 16M # Node Locked'16910A-032' HW 16910_32Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 32M # Node Locked'16910A-250' HW 16910_250MHz_State : Maximum state speed of 250 MHz # Node Locked'16910A-500' HW 16910_500MHz_Turbo_State : Increase maximum state speed to 500 MHz # Node Locked'16911A-256' HW 16911_256K_Samples : Acquisition memory depth of 256K # Node Locked'16911A-001' HW 16911_1Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 1M # Node Locked'16911A-004' HW 16911_4Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 4M # Node Locked'16911A-016' HW 16911_16Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 16M # Node Locked'16911A-032' HW 16911_32Meg_Samples : Increase acquisition memory depth to 32M # Node Locked'16911A-250' HW 16911_250MHz_State : Maximum state speed of 250 MHz # Node Locked'16911A-500' HW 16911_500MHz_Turbo_State : Increase maximum state speed to 500 MHz

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 05:09:49 am
content: So, I was able to upgrade my 4Ms card to 32Ms , i am unable to sort the 500Mhz Turbo mode out.Code:EEPROM DATA:Serial @ 0000-0009Unknown 000A0x00 ( changing to 0x01 results in invalid )Memory @ 000B0x00 = 256K ( assumed )0x01 = 1M ( assumed )0x02 = 4M/250 ( confirmed )0x03 = 16M/250 ( confirmed )0x04 = 32M/250 ( confirmed0x05 = 256k/250 ( confirmed, probably invalid )0x06 = 256k/250 ( confirmed )-- I assume any value over 0x04 is treated as 0x000x14 = 256k/250 ( confirmed )Unknown @ 000C 0x16-- Changing to 0x17 flagged invalid-- Changing to 0x32 ( and adding 0x16 to checksum ) - invalidCheckSum @ 000DIncrementing a value @ 0B , increment Checksum.Same goes for incrementing serial #For example, 0x0A-0x0D0x00 0x00 0x16 0x27 = 256K [ assumed ] * not tested0x00 0x01 0x16 0x28 = 1Ms [ assumed ] * not tested0x00 0x02 0x16 0x29 = 4Ms0x00 0x03 0x16 0x2A = 16Ms0x00 0x04 0x16 0x2B = 32Ms

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 05:27:01 am
content: Quote from: Hamster on May 25, 2021, 05:09:49 amNice work. Maybe you can apply a 16911_500MHz_Turbo_State feature upgrade using a license file and dump the eeprom before and after to see what changes.

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 05:44:36 am
content: i just need to figure out how to generate a lic file, the agHwUpgrade program will read the lic and apply it, just need to figure out how to sign it.it would look like this:#START LICENSE INFOFEATURE 16911_500MHz_State agilent 1.0 permanent uncounted HOSTID=ANY SN=?SIGN=???#END LICENSE INFOif someone has a 500Mhz key for another Serial #, i could change my Serial # to match and apply the license to it.

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 05:45:49 am
content: the good thing is the card i am using is bad ( PSync Issue, and Bad Memory Bus address ) , so its just a parts board for testing , just have to reboot the LA every time on a Chip contents change.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 07:48:18 am
content: Quote from: gslick on May 24, 2021, 09:04:03 pmSorry, corrected the reference. The 16700 seeds are posted in another thread.Yes, you can use them as you're supposing. The tool is available on the net, just needs some googling...

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 01:52:03 pm
content: With help from another forum member, here is how to fully enable a 16911A card.To Enable 500Mhz Turbo: Change 0x000A to 0x01 , increment value @ 0x000C by the value added to 0x000ATo enable Max Sampling, Change 0x000B to 0x04 , increment value @ 0x000D by the value you incremented at 0x000BFor example on my two cards i did tests on: ( that i read the eeproms on )0x00 0x02 0x16 0x20 [ stock 250mhz/16ms ]0x01 0x04 0x17 0x24 [ fully enabled ]

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2021, 04:35:57 pm
content: FYI, the easier option, is to generate a signed .lic file in the correct format, the tools are on the net, but i cannot download them ( i don't have enough rep points ) --

author: danielbriggs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2022, 10:25:53 pm
content: This is just a quick message, for those with "the tool", (many thanks to those who helped) this attached file I found in the Agilent LA installation directory may really help you.Just pick which software or hardware options you want to add and rerun "the tool".For SW, take the first line of each paragraph with your HOSTID=ANYe.g. xilinx_fpga_dynamic_probeor Signal_ExtractorYou'll need to ensure the appropriate packages are installed.You can add as many as you one in one file.For HW, it's the first sectione.g. 16910A-032Seems to support many many types of mainframe cards or systems.All the best,Dan

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 07:54:05 pm
content: I recently picked up a 16702B... first of all, thanks for the resistor change info! I "upgraded" my 16750A, 16750B, and 16533A cards.Just wanted to add one thing that I hadn't seen this mentioned... it looks R65 and R66 differentiate between the 'A' (R65 populated) and 'B' (R66 populated) versions.When I initially compared the 16750A vs. 16750B side-by-side, I noticed that difference (pics attached). As a test, I populated the 16750B with the resistors described for the 16752A, and the card wasn't detected (showed an empty slot). Then I swapped R65 and R66, and the board showed up as a 16752B. So, it looks like the rest of the resistors are the same for the 'B', but R65 and R66 must match the actual type of board.I guess that also means there's a difference, though I'm not sure what it is (I haven't done an in-depth comparison between them). Maybe just a minor chip or firmware change that makes them incompatible, though equivalent in performance?Edit: I just looked at the cards, and the one difference that jumps out at me is that the 'A' uses XCV300 FPGAs, and the 'B' uses XCV300E FPGAs. The Virtex-E is a 1.8V FPGA instead of 2.5V of the original Virtex. Additionally, while the part number sounds like they'd be basically the same FPGA, the 300E has more logic resources than the 300, so they almost certainly require different bit files, which the mainframe would need to be aware of. So, I'd guess the 'A' to 'B' was simply a change to the Virtex-E due to the original Virtex going obsolete.DogP

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 11:19:26 pm
content: Quote from: DogP on February 05, 2022, 07:54:05 pmI think you're exactly right on Virtex vs. Virtex-E.In /usr/sprockets/tools/instrument/16700/16718/, there are two different versions of bit files, yari.rbt and yari_rev2.rbt. The header of yari.rbt:Xilinx ASCII BitstreamCreated by Bitstream D.27Design name: yari_g.ncdArchitecture: virtexPart: v300bg352Date: Wed Oct 03 08:50:00 2001Bits: 1751808The header of yari_rev2.rbt:Xilinx ASCII BitstreamCreated by Bitstream D.27Design name: yari_g.ncdArchitecture: virtexePart: v300ebg352Date: Fri Oct 05 09:19:46 2001Bits: 1875648The driver is /usr/sprockets/tools/instrument/16700/16718/lib16718.sl and covers the 16718A, 16719A, 16740A, 16741A, 16742A, 16750A, 16750B, 16751A, 16751B, 16752A, and 16752B. This is where the above two bit files are referenced. That family of cards is called "yari" and they all have the same basic architecture. The A and B versions probably operate identically after being loaded with their respective bit files.Thanks for solving the mystery of A vs. B! That's been bothering me for a long time.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 11:36:38 am
content: Very cool... nice analysis. I've got a lot to learn about this system... I've had a 16500A for ~20 years, and figured it was time to upgrade.DogP

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 07:30:28 pm
content: Sorta "up-hack" related... has anyone made an adapter to use older logic analyzer cables with the newer units?I've got a 16550A card in my 16500A, with a bunch of cables, but no cables for my 16750A/Bs. They both go to the standard 40-pin connector, and the 16550A supports up to 500 MHz timing, so it seems a simple adapter to go from the 60-pin to the 50-pin connector would at least be somewhat usable. Is the connector type and/or pinout documented anywhere?Though maybe with the cost of connectors, it just make sense to find the right cables. If that's the case, any recommendations for sourcing these cables? Is buying cards with cables and scrapping the cards the best way?Thanks,DogP

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 08:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: DogP on February 06, 2022, 07:30:28 pmMight be easiest to just buy "for parts" modules that include the cables.For example, maybe try making offers on something like these. Maybe they would consider lower offers for just the pod cables, and make shipping cheaper too.16716Ahttps://www.ebay.com/itm/22346454723116715Ahttps://www.ebay.com/itm/20270112159916715Ahttps://www.ebay.com/itm/173876217896Could try an eBay search like this for modules with compatible pod cables:(hp, hewlett, agilent, keysight) (16715a, 16716a, 16717a, 16718a, 16719a, 16740a, 16741a, 16742a, 16750a, 16751a, 16752a, 16750b, 16751b, 16752b, 16910a, 16911a)Or maybe other members here have modules which have failed and they might consider selling the pod cables.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 09:09:03 am
content: Thanks... yeah, I'll probably just end up making an offer on a set.DogP

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2022, 02:37:06 am
content: I ended up grabbing that 16716A for the cables... though of course "upgraded" the card as well. So thanks for that info in this thread!Also, while sifting through this thread, I noticed the discussion about the 1674x -> 1675x, and noticed the subtle difference in what DocBen wrote. He says he converted the 16740Ato 16752B.Quote from: DocBen on November 28, 2017, 05:49:08 pmQuote from: Patrick.M on April 03, 2018, 06:31:54 pmQuote from: Patrick.M on April 06, 2018, 04:12:55 pmSo... given that it seems the difference between the 1675x A vs. B seems to be the XCV300 vs. XCV300E, and the above posts discuss unsuccessful upgrades from 1674xA to 1675xA, and note the FPGA differences, maybe the 1674xA is actually the same hardware as the 1675xB, not the 1675xA, and therefore needs to be jumpered for B to work correctly. I didn't find any high quality pics of a 1674xA board to check the markings on the Xilinx part, but probably worth checking if you're attempting this upgrade.Edit: Might also apply to the 16718A and 16719A (not sure which FPGA is used on those boards).DogP

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 11:45:13 pm
content: Quote from: DogP on February 19, 2022, 02:37:06 amDid the 16716A you picked up for parts for the cables turn out to be fully functional?Regarding the 1674xA FPGA, my 16741A has XCV300E parts.The ID resistors for that 16741A are as shown here (Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 12:53:27 am):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hpagilent-1675x-logic-analyzer-card-memory-up-hack/msg1361817/#msg1361817

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2022, 12:20:34 am
content: Quote from: gslick on February 20, 2022, 11:45:13 pmYes, with the exception of the missing interconnect cable.Quote from: gslick on February 20, 2022, 11:45:13 pmInteresting... so yes, with the XCV300E, the 16741A would likely need to identify as a 16752B, not A.DogP

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2022, 02:41:48 am
content: There was a thread that went into troubleshooting DogP's 16533A and 16750B cards. Just dropping the link here in case anyone is interested in the details (Glen...):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/series-defect-on-agilent-167xx-boards/msg3989777/#msg3989777

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2022, 10:03:36 pm
content: Kinda "memory up-hack" related... I swapped out the 16702B's OEM SCSI hard drive with an ACARD AEC-7722 (firmware reflashed to AEC-7726, plus a 50-pin SCSI adapter - if not familiar, there's some discussion in this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/add-a-single-byte-in-a-bin-file-every-one-byte-(all-file)/)... plus a 32GB CF card in a CF to IDE adapter.Overall, it dropped almost 30 seconds off the boot time (down to 2:46 from 3:13 with the OEM drive, with a pair of 16754A/Bs, a 16534A, and a 16720A), so quite a bit faster. An IDE SSD I tested was 8 seconds faster than that, but the CF card was more convenient to use. I know that there's also the SCSI2SD adapter, though from the benchmarks I've read, they're actually slower than an OEM drive.Anyway, in case anyone's interested, here's the bracket I used for mounting it in the 16702B:https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5373974. And note that not all 68-pin to 50-pin SCSI adapters work with the ACARD adapter... here's a design I made based on the HP 5182-4551 adapter which did work:https://github.com/pdaderko/16702B/tree/main/SCSI_50_to_68_female(soldered directly to the ACARD adapter).And I'm happy to say that IFINALLYhave my 16702B back together and ready to use, for the first time since I bought it. I guess now I can retire my 16500A(s) and get back to work on the couple of RE projects that I wanted these faster/deeper memory cards for.DogP

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2022, 10:32:17 pm
content: I used a SCA80 18gb SCSI drive when i had the 167xx frames and it greatly sped up the

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2023, 07:17:27 pm
content: The older 16555A and 16555D cards may also have memory size as a configuration option. Both appear to have the same size memory array (34 x M5416283-60).However, there are no individual resistors around the Actel gate array on the top side of the board and few on the input side of the board. Comparing my 16555A with the pictures athttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/2rw2yf4dsdkx0zf/AABbXunP1vkF7xeaC5_B7lmua?dl=0&preview=16555D-A1.jpgI can see no differences.The reverse of the board does, however, have more including some in the most likely location around the Actel gate array. Unfortunately I don't have a 16555D and haven't found a picture of the back.Could anyone with a 16555D post a picture of the back please - ideally a high resolution photo of the whole thing but at minium a shot of the area at the edge connector end, under the Actel device.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2023, 10:12:43 pm
content: I wrote the above before I got my newly-acquired 16500C/16555A/16522A setup working. Now I have, I'm somewhat puzzled.The LA board is clearly labelled 16555A 1MSa. But the mainframe identifies it as "2.0M Sample 110/500MHz LA" and shows 2MSa (/4MSa in half-channel mode). I guess it could have an ID fault and will turn out to have less memory thatn it appears but that seems unlikely. Or maybe it's a frankenstein card with the wrong rear panel. Or maybe it can be secretly enabled like those other cards and it's already been done. Or the start of adhesive corrosion I can see has unexpectedly done the same thing.Any ideas ?Further update :I had some problems with that card that turned out to be a connector, so I was very unsure of whether it was working. However, it's now apparently working fine as a 16555D despite being labelled 16555A. So I assume it was modied either as a field upgrade or a hack. Howerver, I can't tell how. There is no evidence of different solder joints etc.If anyone has a 16555A that reports as such, I'd be interested to compare (probably some details of resisters underneath) and you might be able to upgrade yours to a D by copying it.Further further update:I got some more 16555A cards and figured it out. There is a configuration resistor underneath the Actel FPGA (back of the PCB) which indicates whether it's a 555A or a 555D. It's fitted for the D card and not for the A and is one of a pair of 1.15k resistors so it's pretty easy to spot the empty pads if you have a 16555A.HOWEVER it won't always work. I have one 16555A fitted with OKI M5416283 -60 256k x 16 bit VRAMs. This is sufficient for 2M memory depth and is the only one that has been upgraded to the D version successfully.I have 3 other 16555A boards that are fitted with Hitachi HM5316123BF-8 128k x 16 bit VRAMs. This is only enough for 1M depth and although fitting the resistor makes them identify as 555D they fail selftests on PLD and memory address tests.One of my boards doesn't even have the link location (or at least, not in the same position - maybe it's elsewhere ) and although they all have the same FPGA (as does a 16557D) labelled 16555 there are some different revisions which may or may not matter. I'm not about to desolder 34 RAMs to find out.I don't know when the change was made, probably towards the end of life when few A boards were being sold but if you have an A board you might get lucky and have one with the bigger vram chips.

author: RAQU_PL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 08:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: Hamster on May 25, 2021, 01:52:03 pmHave anyone tried unlocking 16911a in 168xx frame? Does anyone have 168xx frame with options other than 250 state 1Meg memory and is willing to read u90 eeprom?Unfortunately Hamster's codes doesn't work. Behavior is that nothing changes but when trying to sample, the memory filling procedure hangs indefinitely.My eeprom content 0x0A to 0x0D : 0x00 0x31 0x18 0x26 for 1Meg 250 MHz state.

author: danielbriggs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 08:31:09 pm
content: I’ve liberated a 16910A in a 16902A frame.Why software do the 168xx frames use? Do they use Agilent LPA?There’s info on this forum to generate your own licenses to enable whichever options you require.This is easier than dumping the EEPROM’s, but that’s also a valid technique.I think on the 16910A’s it was U102.I’ll have a root around for the EEPROM dumps if they’re of any use. I had two 16910A’s with a variety of configs. But I definitely upgraded one to the max mem and speed with enough perseverance.

author: RAQU_PL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2023, 09:45:52 pm
content: Quote from: danielbriggs on August 12, 2023, 08:31:09 pmYes, 168xx do use Ag LPA.There are some differences between those families. In example 168xx MB bios is locked, so you can not replace motherboard, different eeprom content? for the same HW option and propably many others.Did You mean "generic flexlm crypt generator v0.5 by haldir"?Do You have one? I can not find it. All links that i could find are dead.

author: Gerald
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 08:51:15 am
content: same question here!

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 12:28:48 am
content: Quote from: danielbriggs on August 12, 2023, 08:31:09 pmThe Agilent {16804A, 16806A, 16821A, 16822A, 16823A} analyzers are essentially exactly same hardware as an Agilent 16901A mainframe which is populated with {(2x) 16911A, (2x) 16910A, 16912A + 16720A, 16911A + 16720A, 16910A + 16720A} modules. (A 34-channel 16912A module does not exist as a standalone 16900-series product). They both use the same Intel D915GUX, ADLINK M-880, or ADLINK M-890 motherboards. The only real mechanical difference is that the 16901A has a module shroud for removable modules with ejectors, while the {16804A, 16806A, 16821A, 16822A, 16823A} analyzers have a module shroud for two modules screwed in without thumbscrews or ejectors.The Agilent {16801A, 16802A, 16803A} analyzers are essentially exactly same hardware as an Agilent 16901A mainframe which is populated with {16912A, 16911A, 16910A} modules, except that in addition to the main 600W power supply, the 16901A has a second 175W power supply while the {16801A, 16802A, 16803A} have a second 15W power supply, and the 2-slot module interface board (MIB) of the 16901A is replaced by a 1-slot module interface board in the {16801A, 16802A, 16803A}. The module shroud also has a single slot opening.As the hardware is essentially the same, they use the same logic analyzer application.In theory, a {16804A, 16806A, 16821A, 16822A, 16823A} analyzer could be turned into a more flexible 16901A analyzer. More flexible in that a 16900-series mainframe supports older {16740/41/42A, 16750/51/52A, 16750/51/52B, 16753/54/55/56A} modules, which may be easier and/or less expensive to acquire.In practice, I don't know if anyone has figured out how to do that yet, or at least I haven't seen anyone post here that they have. As far as I know, swapping a standard 16910A module into a 168xxA analyzer results in an unrecognized module, and swapping a 16803A/16823A 16910A module into a 16901A also results in an unrecognized module.My guess is that there are some bits in the {16912A, 16911A, 16910A} module EEPROMs that indicate whether they are standard 16900-series modules, or 168xxA-series specific modules, and the logic analyzer application will reject modules that are swapped between the two series.And probably some bits somewhere in the hardware that distinguish between a 16901A mainframe and a 168xxA analyzer. Maybe a tag somewhere in the motherboard BIOS? Or maybe somewhere in the MIB? A 168xxA analyzer needs to know the difference between a 1-slot MIB and a 2-slot MIB, maybe that would be a good place to store model specific information.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 01:51:12 pm
content: Quote from: RAQU_PL on August 12, 2023, 09:45:52 pmThere is a "xmas gift" in this forum.

author: Gerald
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 21, 2023, 06:53:03 pm
content: Successfully upgraded a 16804A from 250MHz sampling rate to 500MHz, but no way to upgrade the sample memory. Whatever option used (4Meg / 16Meg / 32Meg) it stays at the original 1Meg.Any clues ?

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2023, 04:25:19 am
content: Quote from: Gerald on August 21, 2023, 06:53:03 pmDid you use "FEATURE 16911_32Meg_Samples" for the 16804A? That should work.

author: Gerald
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 23, 2023, 04:28:23 pm
content: Quote from: gslick on August 22, 2023, 04:25:19 amYes. Copy paste method and modifying the original 1Meg license file, the re-signing.

author: Uup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2023, 08:20:43 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on May 24, 2021, 08:44:21 pmThanks, but I have a really stupid question. What is to be done with the generated .exe file? The file just crashes, no matter what OS I run it on, including Win7 on my 16822A.Thought I would do my homework, but after >3 hours of reading pages from different threads it isn't any clearer to me... Other than realising the amount of effort that went into figuring it all out and making the tool, that is.

author: RAQU_PL
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2023, 05:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: Uup on September 02, 2023, 08:20:43 amYou need to run program using windows console. After the tool path, You need to enter the path of the license to sign. Example licenses You have in file with the tool or in thread somewhere.Edit:#START LICENSE INFOFEATURE 16911_500MHz_Turbo_State agilent 1.0 permanent uncounted HOSTID=ANY SN=MYXXXXXXXX SIGN=#END LICENSE INFO#START LICENSE INFOFEATURE 16911_32Meg_Samples agilent 1.0 permanent uncounted HOSTID=ANY SN=MYXXXXXXXX SIGN=#END LICENSE INFO

author: Uup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2023, 09:56:38 am
content: Quote from: RAQU_PL on September 02, 2023, 05:26:51 pmThank you, that makes sense. I hadn't looked at a licence file because I couldn't find any. The licence directories were empty.I checked the current licences from the LA application and it has '! Running Factory Licence' but from the licence manager it shows no licences. However, at the bottom of the Licence Manager window it has 'Installing...'Interestingly, it is fully enabled anyhow. I can sample to 500MHz (full channel) and can have a memory depth of up to 32MB, as well as having a lot of protocols and inverse assemblers.I'm currently on V05.70.0002. I did a clean Win 7 install with V05.90 and had it go to 250MHz and 1MB, same as the stickers on the back of the unit.I restored the backup that I made and am back to 500MHz and 32MB, so will leave it at that for the moment. It has a bunch of other software installed on this unit, which I don't need but can clean up.Thanks again

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2023, 03:22:33 pm
content: did you install the upgrades? if you did a fresh install, it should still show the options if installed into the card.You can also just copy the .lic files and put them on the new install.

author: Uup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 07:42:19 am
content: Quote from: Hamster on September 05, 2023, 03:22:33 pmBy install upgrades, did you mean 500MHz and 32MB?No, I didn't try after upgrading to V05.90. When I saw that the sampling options had been limited to 250MHz and 1MB, I considered the possibility that the configuration memory in the LA cards were still configured to the stickered values. So reverted back to the original set-up, as it was faster than playing around with licence files.I rechecked for any licence files on this HDD and found one in a ACCL\BIN directory (pointing to agilent.exe with feature agilent agilent) and anther licence file in a folder for VSA software (89601B) but was in a 'Removed and Expired Licences' folder. The VSA software still works but shows the same '! Running Factory Licence' warning/message? The license manager shows no licences.Since it is working to my needs I think I'll leave it for now. This thread just piqued my curiosity but in the end it was already fully enabled.At least this gave me the motivation to clean-up the desktop and the HDD. It was interesting reading the 'behind the scenes' efforts that resulted in the tool too.Thanks

author: Hamster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 03:27:07 am
content: so find the LIC files on the C drive, if its a software license, it will be married to the HDD's Serial # ( you can change the HDD's Serial # ) , if for a card, it should be applied to the card..I never seen upgrading the software to a newer version reduce the spec(s) of the card.

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 04:08:18 am
content: Quote from: Uup on September 06, 2023, 07:42:19 amWhat do you have for FEATURE lines in all of the .LIC files in your current installation?If you have a valid .LIC file for "FEATURE Option100", that will result in the "Running under factory License." message. As far as I know, that enables all of the "agilent" licensed logic analyzer application software options, maybe that was a factory demo mode, but not the module specific sampling speed and memory depth hardware license options. Although maybe I'm wrong about that and it also enables the max sampling speed and memory depth options while the license is present. I suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to try to verify that.

author: Uup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 11:33:16 am
content: Quote from: Hamster on September 07, 2023, 03:27:07 amI thought as much too, from what I read here. However, that's what happened when did a clean install and upgraded to V05.90.I did a search on the HDD from root for licence files (searched C:\*.lic) and came up with a few more. With the exception of one which was in a temp folder, they were in a source folder (C:\Agilent_DVD_Source\Licences). It just looked like copies of installation DVDs and licence files associated with them. Renamed it and the ALA application still worked, so deleted the folders and rebooted to be sure and it still worked as before. I uninstalled all the other software the other day so not sure if any of those would have stopped working or not, after deleting.The only two licence files left on this HDD have the following feature listed. First one is the original licence file that I found previously and the second was in a temp folder.FEATURE agilent agilent 0 permanent 1 SIGN="029D 4656 7DE4 26CA ...etcFEATURE Option100 agilent 1.0 permanent uncounted HOSTID=DISK_SERIAL_NUM=1812d03d SIGN=3ED997A08FB9EThe licence manager shows no active licences.Not sure why 500MHz and 32MB is activated in this V05.70 installation but not on a clean V05.90. In any case I'm yet to need 32MB of depth but I suppose it is good to know that it's available if I ever need it.

author: Uup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 11:36:44 am
content: Quote from: gslick on September 07, 2023, 04:08:18 amYou're right, there was another licence file in a temp folder, as per my other reply above. Odd why the ALA application didn't indicate where it was and that the licence manager indicates no licences.