Good multimeter for an Industrial Tech - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Matt Hatter
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 12:34:39 am
content: Hey all, I am currently employed as an industrial maintenance and repair tech and find myself in need of a better, and more importantly safer meter. There is the obvious Fluke 87-V, but I have also seen similar models by FLIR and other manufactures and was wondering if you all had any suggestions. The primary usage case for the meter will be high voltage (220-480 volts) mains and motor wiring, etc. Not afraid to spend a bit of money as the meter is the only thing between me and death haha. I've included a link to several FLIR meters below.Cheershttp://www.flir.com/instruments/dm90/http://www.flir.com/instruments/dm9x/

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 01:27:52 am
content: If I recall correctly FLIR is owned by the same company that owns Fluke.I would suggest Fluke 117. It has a feature to detect live wire remotely. Has backlight. You can get "refurbished" from Fluke direct, with 3 year warranty, but it will probably not have any of the standard accessories:https://www.flukeonlinestore.com/products/factory-reconditioned/fluke-117-electricians-true-rms-multimeterThen there is ebay too.Check local pawn shops. I couple of weeks ago I saw Fluke 177 and Fluke 179 in the same shop. 177 was under 100 USD. 179 was just over 100 USD. Of course they are used and for all we know they might be fried so inspect before you buy, bring some known value resistors and batteries to try them out before you buy. If you have local university with some kind of engineering program, you can swing by and see if they keep labs open, and take measurements of the components. That way when you try the meters with those components you will know exactly what the meter should read.There are also Agilent/Keysight surplus/new old stock meters on ebay for around 200 USD.I bought from this seller the B model. Seems they are out of B and only have A model:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-U1252A-With-Carrying-Case-/292214966352?hash=item44095e8850:g:p7wAAOSwXXxZPdz9

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 04:13:03 am
content: I can highly recommend a Brymen BM089. Having a clamp meter is a very good thing for industrial uses. This meter also measures 3 phases at once:http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm089/meters-and-acdc-clamp-probes/brymen/

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 05:02:59 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on August 31, 2017, 01:27:52 amNo they are competitors.QuoteI buy my meters used and abused, but I will NEVER use them like the OP in high voltage mains.I recommend buying new from an authorized reputable dealer so you don't get one that has been abused. And I also suggest never lending out your meter.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 06:43:28 am
content: Too many stories of fuses being jumpered over and whatnot to trust a used meter for high power use unless you're willing and capable to open it up and verify it yourself.Fluke seems like a good go-to as they've sort of made their name on stuff like this, but there was a thread discussing at least one Brymen meter in an industrial application and the guy using it seemed to be quite pleased overall, maybe worth a search. I've been quite happy with my Brymen too, but I don't deal with those voltages generally, so my usage case probably doesn't apply all that well to the OP's. I remember Dave did some comprehensive durability tests on some of the Keysight meters, they seemed like they held up well. Keysight currently has at least two meters rated IP67 and CAT III 1000V / CAT IV 600V.Don't know if you've already considered it, but once you find a meter you consider up to your standards, maybe look at going with probes with a more comprehensive guard or better insulation rating too. A capable meter will probably come with good ones, but getting probes that are easy to use with all the safety precautions in place and that are comfortable and grippy in your hands may be slightly different than the ones supplied with the meter. Worth considering, maybe not necessarily required.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 08:26:27 am
content: http://en-us.fluke.com/products/portable-oscilloscopes/fluke-190-ii-portable-oscilloscope-190-104.htmlhttps://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/metraline-exm25.htm(US have NEC HAZLOC ? as ATEX equivalent)https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/metrahitenergy.htmhttp://en-us.fluke.com/products/installation-testers/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 09:36:27 am
content: Quote from: Matt Hatter on August 31, 2017, 12:34:39 amI wouldn't say Fluke87V is the best for your job. The 87V is for electronics engineers - you don't need 0.05% accuracy when looking at big motors, you don't need to measure capacitance. You probably don't even need amps (and if you do, you'll be using a clamp because the 87V can't measure that many amps).Fluke makes meters for industrial electricians as well as electronics engineers, eg. Fluke 117 (which also has non-contact voltage detector).First job: Make a list of what it is you actually measure.Second job: Find a meter that matches that.If you measure a lot of current you can get a meter with built in clamp, eg. Fluke 381 which has detachable display and everything.If you worry about safety and you're open to non-Fluke then don't mess around, get an AMPROBE HD160C. It's the only CAT IV 1000V meter (that I know of). You'll be able to point at Fluke 87V owners and laugh at how unsafe their meters are.http://www.amprobe.com/Amprobe/usen/digital-multimeters/Industrial-Multimeters-/AMP-HD160C.htm?PID=73247It's also cheaper than an 87V and the magnetic hanger is included, not just a photocopy of one.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:16:39 am
content: Get a NEW 87V, bang it on your tax deductions and get on with the job,I doubt the 117 will give any AC reading past 666 volts much less test and verify an insulation test/er at 1000v DC, it's CAT rating may be iffy in a 480 volt 'situation'and that's not good in an 'anything goes on a bad day' industrial maintenance and repair situationGet a good AC+DC TRMS clamp meter too,current capabilities on multimeters blows, and so do the fusesand sometimes the clumsy operators tooBTW: Has the AMPROBE HD160C received a good electrical thrashing and field trashing yet?Till then, I stick with the yellow...

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:18:31 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 31, 2017, 09:36:27 am200 USD? Current measurement 2 A? Have you lost your mind?My 100 USD Fluke 27FM rated for 10 A and I bought it used from ebay.Over the weekend I am going to the customer, the system I will be working on is set for 3 phase 460 VAC and 30 A.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:22:08 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on August 31, 2017, 10:16:39 amThat, too.Or get a Fluke 28II, it's a tougher version of the 87V (more or less).

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:24:50 am
content: 28-11 has a lame diode test and some other issue/sand you need a kids shopping trolley to lug it around, and pay the kid too

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:25:29 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on August 31, 2017, 10:16:39 amMight as well get 77 since uA are useless in this line of work.Interesting point about the high voltage machines in the 600 VAC range.I have never built anything that is more than 460 VAC 3 phase. I am now on my second job and both places I work built machines for factories. I have built 120 VAC, 240 VAC, 460 VAC. Nothing higher.Is there a lot of machinery being used that is 600+ VAC?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:26:00 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on August 31, 2017, 10:18:31 amIn other words: You can't measure the current with the Fluke 27FM, you need a separate current clamp.Am I right?PS: $100 for a used 27FM? I paid $60 for mine and it was new (old stock).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:27:29 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on August 31, 2017, 10:24:50 amIs that a problem when diagnosing 480V industrial motors?

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:30:10 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 31, 2017, 10:26:00 amWrong.I got A, mA and uA.Regarding 27FM price. Different timing. I know they originally went for 25 USD on ebay. By the time I got into dmm shopping those prices where long gone, like a couple of years gone.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:30:41 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on August 31, 2017, 10:25:29 amNo, but where there's big motors there's big inductance.Inductance can cause voltage spikes much higher than the input voltage.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:33:35 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on August 31, 2017, 10:30:10 amCan you measure 30A using the 27FM?Answer: No.Conclusion: A 2A meter is as useful as a 10A meterfor industrial work. "Indutrial Technitians"(sic) usually need a current clamp as well.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:38:30 am
content: I'd go for Fluke or Keysight. Both are respected brands and not likely to skimp on safety and if they do they have deep enough pockets to pay for your funeral and loss of income to your family.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:42:24 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2017, 10:38:30 amBeat me to itQuote from: shteii01 on August 31, 2017, 10:25:29 amAC capacitor banks run at 660 volts and higher sometimesIf I'm going to be playing tech wizard in a factory with a nagging 'time is money' pushy asshole clueless supervisor,I want my meter to read 440v and 666v AC, or 1058v DC rather than 'OL' (i.e. SOL) on anything past 600

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:44:48 am
content: What you want to spend? Is the Fluke 1587 FC within budget?It does everything except non-invasive current. But you could buy an i30s for that, if you grow money.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:46:11 am
content: For mains I'd recommend something like a Duspol. Fluke offers similar testers in case you're a Fluke-aholic.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 10:50:47 am
content: A Duspol is a MUST HAVE before thinking about any meterMy T100 has bailed me out of a lot of iffy situationsAnd a Fluke 1587 FC is a waste of money with lame specs compared to an 87V especially if you don't need its insulation test featureAnd it's EXPENSIVENice meter though, but there are much cheaper meters out there with same features

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 11:45:19 am
content: I don't think it's very expensive if you would have to buy an insulation tester as well. Which I think is a required tool for diagnosing motors and other GFCI troubleshooting.

author: rjardina
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 12:00:24 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on August 31, 2017, 04:13:03 amQuote from: Jeroen3 on August 31, 2017, 11:45:19 amI would second both of statements. The Brymen BM089 along with the Brymen BM878 (insulation tester) has millamp (4-20)/mill-volt reading and having two meters for temperature readings at once is a must at times for a industrial tech. Both of these meters are my daily drivers too. I've had both of these meter for over a year and a half no problems. Oh as a bonus living in the USA, no one knows this brand, so unlikely someone will steal them either LOL.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 01:23:17 pm
content: In industrial electricity and power electronics,NEVERuse a multimeter to measure current....that's a basic rule of safety !Use a clamp instead.If your multimeter has current input, I recommend to obstruct the current input with silicone or hot glue, so you can't make mistakes.Buy only Fluke or Brymen brands multimeters.Test leads are very important for you safety...If they are damaged, replace them only with original test leads and buy them by an official Fluke or Brymen dealer.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 01:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on August 31, 2017, 01:23:17 pmBut then again. There are cases, when you want to measure mAs with an industrial meter. One example is to check, if a current transformer is installed correctly or not. The other to check, if a 4-20mA communication system is good or not. Or to check GFI relays.That being said, I think the Fluke 117 is probably the best meter for this kind of job. It is small, lightweight, easy to operate the knob, has a magnetic strap mount, large screen without mess, the new ones have no contact voltage. And it is cheap for what it does.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 03:07:15 pm
content: FlukeRMSSimplest possibleOne hand operationableIf you think you may loose it in the field, get the lowest cost.Your next meter, you may consider one with bluetooth enabled, or/and with scope display for you to see the waveform.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 03:10:15 pm
content: QuoteThis is more "automation and process " than electricity or power electronics.There are "processmeter" for this application like the Fluke 787.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 12:26:32 am
content: I'm not a fan of using an 'All In One' meter in OPs situation"employed as an industrial maintenance and repair tech and find myself in need of a better, and more importantly safer meter."Separate meters is 'SAFER METER' ferried about in a wheelie tool bag or back pack thingie or pimped up personal tool beltSeparate meters means less fiddling with switches and leads, less menu BS, less thinking,lessOOPS!money wasted on blown gear, blown meter, blown appendages etcand less time your clients, employer, family and friends waste, attending hospital and or funeral etcOTOH: if you like a bit of russian roulette on the job to reduce the boredom, or your phone can't receive the latest thrilling EEVblog video on Youtubeand or your favorite p0rn siteplease ignore the above

author: kleblanc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:07:14 am
content: A Fluke 375 (600 amps) or 376 (1000 amps) should cover you for 95% of industrial usage. The Fluke 87V is good for measuring frequency of VFD drives and inverters with the Low Pass filterI have both the 375 and 87V Fluke and use those for work. I grab the 375 and it does the job most the time. I use the 87V for the accuracy on analog controls.I also have the Flir CM85 that stays at home. It's a good meter with Bluetooth but I find myself messing around with all the function keys and start getting frustrating with to many options.Fluke, Flir, Keysight, and Brymen would be the brands I would stick to for industrial work. There is other good meters but I'm assuming your in the USA. Flukes are built well and have great reliability. They always never seem to maintain their accuracy went they are sent in for calibration.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:17:45 am
content: You could probably get away with a Fluke 174 and whilst about it do a review on it for the rest of us.The Fluke 174 Thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-174/

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:39:29 am
content: And keep away from Fuke and Fuxing meters, and especially 'giveaways' bundled with tool purchasesunless you need some cheap car wheel chocs that look bling and techy

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:12:12 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 31, 2017, 09:36:27 amThough I agree that an 87V may not be the right choice for every situation, and indeed for a lot of industrial use a clamp meter may make more sense, but saying that the 87V is not industrial, that it's an electronics engineer meter, is patently absurd. Everything about it is optimized for industrial, not EE, use.Surely you've picked up on how many people here wish you could get the 87V to default to DC current -- nope, it defaults to AC. Its capacitance range is very much geared towards the larger caps you get in large circuits, it doesn't cover the small capacitances often used in electronics. It has things like a low-pass filter specifically for industrial use. Proper CAT ratings, etc etc etc. It's specifically marketed as an industrial meter.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:52:57 am
content: QuoteAbsolutely and Fluke agrees with you.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:07:18 am
content: Today I discovered a 87 V is waterproof! Someone tossed their toolbox in in the ocean. Everything wet.The 1507 board had several copper traces, component pins and via's dissolved. (in hours)The 87 was perfectly dry and in working order.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:48:47 am
content: More likely the 1507 had battery leakage issues all over the board from way back, and the salt water got the rapA few more hours and that 87V would have gone the way of the Titanic.. It's not waterproof! unless in a sealed airtight sandwich bagFluke 28-11 might fare better, but ocean water has a way of winning eventually, one way or the otherI'd like to see that 87V opened up,bet there's some drama lurking in there somewhere

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:55:40 am
content: I opened up the 1507, the battery spring terminals were all green, including everything that was connected to + terminal. (Galvanic corrosion?)Several component pins were corroded until they disconnected.Opened up the 87V. Nothing. No water, no corrosion on the inside. Only the outside was dirty.It's not like it was submerged "hours". The 1507 probably got some water inside, which stayed inside.TL;DR: get a meter that is somewhat waterproof.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:59:19 am
content: Lucky on that 87V that the dust sealing held upFrom owner experience, my money is still on the 1507 that it had AA battery corrosion issues before it went -scuba diving-

author: Dave Rich
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 01:19:23 am
content: Fluke 117 is a good choice.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2017, 01:21:47 am
content: Well. I am back from the job.The scope of the job.Remove 4-5 meters long section of conveyor. Remove several servo drivers from the panel.Install new section of conveyor. Install several VFD on the panel.Some other odds and bits of work on the panel.Not a single current measurement was taken while we worked. Spent about 12 hours on Saturday (that includes helping our mechanical guys to remove old conveyor and install the new conveyor, and do the actual electrical work). Spent another 6 hours on Sunday finishing up electrical work and troubleshooting electrical/PLC issues.The only really important electrical safety element was to make sure that the panel did not receive power from anywhere. No contact voltage detector would have been nice, but we did not have any issues anyway.

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2017, 05:15:36 am
content: I prefer the 87V for my hobby work.At work where we are not building electronics, just general troubleshooting on power panels, control circuits and 3 phase motors, we us the Fluke T1000. It has an integrated clamp-less amp probe, also a built in proximity high voltage sensor.The probe tips are replaceable or you can add exertions or alligator clips, whatever.Here is the link:[size=78%]http://en-us.fluke.com/products/electrical-testers/fluke-t5-1000-electrical-tester.html

author: AllTheGearNoIdea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2017, 07:26:52 am
content: I recommend any reputable brand that you can afford to loose or smash when it falls off the ladder. This combined with a reputable dead tester. I trust fluke and Gosawhatevermetrixetc. Depending on the work I would make the dead tester the priority.Allthegearnoidea

author: AllTheGearNoIdea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2017, 07:34:53 am
content: Thumbs up for the T1000 used these for years. Fits into pocket nicely and the ability to hold one of the probes in the meter body is better than growing and extra arm. Mind you an extra arm would obviously be nice too, but then again I have other body parts wouldn't mind replicating. I can think of an extra pair that Would be useful when the wife catches me sneaking in the next bit of test gear into the house.Quote from: Kryoclasm on September 04, 2017, 05:15:36 am