No AMD Ryzen 7 4xxxG for you! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 04:31:38 pm
content: So, I was looking at building myself a silent "desktop" PC – actually into a small wooden bench/stool –, and since I use Linux and do kernel work and don't play games that need a lot of GPU oomph, I don't want nVidia. I'd prefer at least four, preferably eight cores (cores, not threads), with CPU having integrated graphics and TDP ~ 65W.After looking at CPU specs, I thought AMD Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G would be perfect for my use cases, say with a MSI B550-A motherboard.But no, AMD only sells these to OEMs. What the fuck?In fact, none of the "local" sellers have any of the Ryzen-with-integrated-graphics processors, and don't know when they get any.I'm not interested in buying an OEM chassis, motherboard, and processor combo, because they always come with a Windows license, and I don't need nor want one. (There are some of those sold hereabouts, with various Ryzen-with-Radeon processors, so the processors are not vaporware; OEMs definitely do have them.)I don't want nVidia of any kind, because of their closed source drivers, and Nouveau drivers being basically guesswork. (If you do kernel development work, having any closed source drivers loaded since boot means you cannot really determine why a kernel crashed, since the closed-source drivers could have affected it. Also, reports from such "tainted" kernels are basically useless to send, since there is nothing anybody can really do, as the closed-source drivers are .. closed; a black box.)At least AMD Radeon drivers are open source. But, I cannot find any (recent) Radeon graphics cards with passive cooling. (Yes yes, I know: the fans only spin up when needed. Like I said, I'm building a silent, not a "usually quiet" machine.)Right now, the alternative (that I might actually be able to buy) is Intel Core i9-9900 and an MSI or ASRock Z390 motherboard. I dislike the idea of having a TPM on my machine, though; at least on AMD it's a separate module one can leave out.I did not realize that the world of "we'll decide whether you can buy this or not, peasant!" has progressed this far already!

author: RenThraysk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 06:41:18 pm
content: Here's a place in France seemingly selling them, against AMD's wishes.https://www.cybertek.fr/processeur/amd/47892.aspx

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 06:53:06 pm
content: QuoteWhat's wrong with TPM?. Do you even understand what it is to say so? Also AMD has fTPM in every Ryzen machine.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 07:04:01 pm
content: Ryzen + integrated can be found (mindfactory has them) but for the 4- series they were indeed launched only for OEM I think...

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 07:14:49 pm
content: Quote from: RenThraysk on February 09, 2021, 06:41:18 pmThanks, but how does one know 1) whether the seller is legitimate/reliable wrt. problems, especially with international customers, and 2) the CPUs are neither engineering samples nor removed from OEM motherboards (that have been returned/scrapped for some reason)?This is no fun.I really like AMD processors having faster memory bandwidth, and Isuspect(without proof, mind you) that AMD still provides more ALUs per core (4/2) than Intel does (2/1), giving me better AVX performance (which is kinda important to me on the simulation front).Blergh. I really don't know what to do here: whether to seek a 4750G, go with AMD Ryzen 7 but get an older passive-cooled GPU for it, or go with Intel i9-9900 (or similar with integrated graphics). So annoying.Quote from: wraper on February 09, 2021, 06:53:06 pmSigh. No, I am not confusing TPM with Intel ME. The issue with TPM for me is how they get integrated with EFI BIOS. It is one reason why I don't use Asus motherboards at all.I do not need "platform integrity", or verification that the hardware I have connected at boot time has not changed since the last boot. And I definitely don't want an EFI BIOS that refuses to boot unless the boot manager (or other parts) are signed by Microsoft. I often compile my own kernels, and might wish to modify Grub (most common Linux boot manager on x86-64), and don't want to go supplicating to Microsoft so they sign it so that I can run the software I want on a machine I own.Are you aware how Intel and AMD TPM policies differ? Those policies are heavily reflected on how motherboard manufacturers expose their EFI BIOS options. The same manufacturer can have an Intel chipset motherboard whose BIOS allows minimal configuration, but their similar AMD chipset motherboard has no locked features at all. I blame Intel marketing for this.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 11:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 09, 2021, 04:31:38 pmI dont know if you noticed, but you cannot buy any meaningful PC hardware since the last 8 months.This includes:Any Nvidia graphics card in the last 2 generationsAny AMD video card in the last 2 generationsAMD processor with more than 6 coresAs I hear, XBOX and PS5 is also absent from the shelvesSo you should just move on, and buy something slightly worse than perfect.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 11:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 09, 2021, 11:12:38 pmThat's exactly what I just learned.Quote from: NANDBlog on February 09, 2021, 11:12:38 pmI think I'll just make do with what I already have, and wait and see if the situation changes.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 12:05:21 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 09, 2021, 11:42:20 pm5700G should come out this year.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 02:17:06 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 09, 2021, 07:14:49 pmThis is a serious company. They have 19(!) retail shops in France. So definitely not your obscure seller.Unfortunately, this processor is marked unavailable ("dispo Web: rupture" => means no stock for Web orders).It's also listed on this:https://www.grosbill.com/4-amd_ryzen_7_pro_4750g_4_4ghz_12mo_am4_mpk-758247-informatique-_processeur(also a big retailer in France), but unfortunately, also currently unavailable.I haven't found it anywhere else, except on eBay, but then I would definitely not buy a new processor on eBay...

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 04:30:53 am
content: I use an Intel 8800k with onboard graphics and it works great.I used to be always upgrading to fastest, newest processor but seem to have reached a point where I am happy with what I have.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 12:08:11 pm
content: Situation will change, it's a glitch, we're experiencing *long* delays with hardware orders, I have had ~350 laptops on order for over a month and have no ETA as yet.I have had i9 and Xeon workstations delivered on short lead times in the past week so it might be useful to approach HP or Dell, in my experience they have always been happy to supply hardware with no Win licence and discount accordingly, however the TPM may be problematic as it's on the motherboard and not a removable module like many of the cheap boards available to home/small builders.It can be disabled but how effective/resilient to hardware discovery that is I don't know.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 02:51:28 am
content: QuoteYeah :-( Except as full systems, anyway :-( Bought some components for my son to build a new gaming PC, and am now noticing that the important components of a "modern" build (CPU, GPU) are pretty much unobtainium :-( :-(QuoteThat seems like an awfully petty reason. You essentially don't pay for windows if you don't use it. I've got several PC chassis that came with windows, that aren't running windows now. What do you care if the OEM payed microsoft a few bucks?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 01:56:08 pm
content: I faced the same dilemma a couple months ago when I built a pair of new systems. My first choice would have been a Ryzen 5 Pro 3400G for built in graphics and ECC support but they are only sold to OEMs and the grey market for them is sketchy at best. Buying OEM boxes even used just for the processor was not even close to economical.I gave up and got newer Zen 2 processors with separate graphics cards which ended up being not that much more expensive anyway.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 02:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on February 11, 2021, 01:56:08 pmWhile some of these more recently released chips were indeed released to OEMs first, it is not a permanent exclusive.For example, the 3400G is readily available in the full-on retail market now. I had even told a customer of mine recently to go pick one up from a retail shop recently as a starter processor because I couldn't get the 3600 and the fancy graphics card they wanted for their kid's first gaming PC build at the time since everything went out of stock right around Black Friday and most higher-end stuff isstillon backorder all the way up the wholesale supply chain.I haven't specifically seen a "retail box" version of the 4750G yet, they may not be shipping them that way yet, but they're readily available from all my wholesale suppliers in normal tray form like I usually buy my processors.

author: Qw3rtzuiop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 03:04:50 pm
content: They probably dont offer them to end users because they already cant meet the demand of the oems. Even many Ryzen 4000 Laptops are not available since summer 2020.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:29:10 pm
content: geeezzz several choices...https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001335459689.htmlPaul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:33:24 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on February 11, 2021, 04:29:10 pmGrey market, no warranty, no guarantee of even being functional.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:36:01 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on February 11, 2021, 04:29:10 pmDo you realize these are almost certainly either engineering samples, or removed from scrapped OEM motherboards? If I'm paying upwards of USD $400 for a CPU, I expect it to be verified and guaranteed by the manufacturer. My chances of getting my money back or a replacement processor from an AliExpress seller after three months or more are exactly zero. Heck, even the seller openly admits the CPUs are used, not new. Upwards of $400 for an used processor? geeezzz...

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:40:53 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 11, 2021, 04:36:01 pmYes.. but not all of them.. mostly they are used stuffand mostly in working good conditionQuote from: Monkeh on February 11, 2021, 04:33:24 pmThey have a good refund program..Just in case you have some bad one.. you can apply for refund.But TRUE - no guaranteeBut still better than nothing,for the price I would find something better..I have a BOX full of several of these ...I use them for repair testing and stuffSo far so good.Paul

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 05:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 11, 2021, 04:36:01 pmWell, if you really want to play on the bleeding edge with a scarce new processor that has extremely limited early availability, most people might only have the choice to try a grey market source I suppose. At least go for someone who has sold a bunch of them, like this guy (just from a quick google search)https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-4750G/293673898156?hash=item44605410ac:g:vXwAAOSwUu5fJriQThey've sold 158 of them so far with all positive feedback as working fine, but yeah it's a random source from China.While thisisa new processor and could potentially have bugs or failures, I suppose, when was the last time you had to return a processor under warranty? Thevastmajority of failed processors are user error (or power supply failure or cooling failure or something that is still user error).The choice until they're readily available, just like anything new and shiny, is to either buy one from as good of a grey market source as you can find, sometimes perhaps at a premium price, or wait for them to get fully into the supply channel. Usually for most people it is obviously probably smarter to wait unless there is some killer feature you really need, but otherwise why complain about lack of availability on a new part that nobody else can get their hands on yet either?The newest stuff is always still on allotment, even to the OEMs and wholesalers.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: drussell on February 11, 2021, 05:48:15 pmOh no, that's not what I'm worried about. (And no, I haven't broken any CPUs or motherboards due to installation failure; I've built around a dozen desktop machines (different setup each), and a number of rack servers.)These are used processors, removed from existing motherboards. Why were the processors removed from those motherboards? Is it perhaps because a batch of motherboards had a failure that caused them to give up their ghost? I bet that is the reason, otherwise they'd sell the motherboards with the processors.What I am worried about, is that failure affecting the processors. Maybe there was a voltage spike that did something odd to the processor, or maybe just one processor in five in that batch; something that wasn't caught by whatever tests – if any – the reseller did to check the processors still "work". With my luck, I'll get the bad one of the bunch, and won't find out until in a specific workload a few months down the line.Quote from: drussell on February 11, 2021, 05:48:15 pmRyzen 7 4700G and Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G were released in July 1, 2020. Six months later, they're still unobtainium. Okay, perhaps that is too soon to expect them to be available.But, like I said, even Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 5 3400G (both released on July 7, 2019) are unobtainium here, except as part of OEM PCs. That's a year and a half ago.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 11, 2021, 06:15:55 pmSimply not true:https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/AMD-Ryzen-3-3200G-4-2GHz-AM4-6MB-Cache-Tray_1320343.htmlhttps://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/AMD-Ryzen-5-3400GE--4C-8T--3-30-4-00GHz--So-AM4--Tray_1392612.html

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:42:33 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 11, 2021, 06:38:16 pmAFAIK Mindfactory stopped shipping abroad 1-2 years ago.The best video card, that is on stock from coolblue is the GTX 710 at the moment.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 11, 2021, 06:15:55 pmThe eBay dude's listing specifically says they are brand new processors.Whether or not you should believe some random dude in China, though, is another story.QuoteWell, that is the risk you take when you buy a grey market processor, I suppose.Failures like that are still extremely rare. If you've fully tested it at the beginning it is unlikely there will be some sort of random math errors or something some months down the line, but, obviously you take your chances.Still, if youneedsome specific $400 processortodayand it somehow only works properly for a year, how much was that service life worth to you? That's the analysis one must do before spending actual cash.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 11, 2021, 06:15:55 pmWeird.They're readily available in the full retail box with cooler here on the shelf at local retailers.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 07:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 11, 2021, 06:42:33 pmHeh. Seems they still ship abroad but you need a VAT reg number:https://www.mindfactory.de/info_center.php/icID/11

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 11:15:54 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 11, 2021, 07:49:49 pmI don't have one, and am not going to get one either; running a company almost killed me already. (Burnout, depression, et cetera. I'm a helper, builder, uncle bumblefuck, not a shrewd businessperson. I'm really an Apustaja, as described in various Finnish memes.)What Ireally wantis an AMD Ryzen ThreadRipper 3990X on a MSI TRX40 Pro 10G motherboard and two Samsung 980 Pro 1TB M.2 NVMe PCIe (software RAID-0) and 8x8GB of RAM using Kingston HyperX Fury Black DDR4 4600 (Kingston HX434C19FB2/8, verified to work with the motherboard), and a watercooling setup replacing one entire large wall of the custom enclosure with an aluminium heatsink. Then I could also use any Radeon graphics card, since I could replace the air circulating fans with a watercooling block. I just don't have that kind of money, being just a burned out husk of a man.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 11:38:41 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 11, 2021, 06:15:55 pmParanoiaThey've sold 89 4750g. Clearly they have some reliable source of getting them, maybe pull from an OEM system and swap for a cheaper part, who knows.If you are adamant about buying a new CPU, then they have new 3400g (or others):https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000079508816.htmlIf you are adamant about buying a CPU with a full warranty locally, which I can totally understand, then wait until it is available locally and pay a premium.I bought 3500x from SZCPU, new. It sits between the 3400g and 4750g, for $140. There is no way you will find a deal that good elsewhere. Of course no IGPU.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:30:20 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 11, 2021, 11:38:41 pmGullible much?People do what is profitable, not what is ethical or moral.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:09:14 am
content: One of the reviews say they received a 4700G instead of 4750G, that's probably the catch. But the specs and cpu mark are pretty similar so...

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:18:03 pm
content: Quote from: drussell on February 11, 2021, 02:51:01 pmThe 3400G is, but I was discussing the 3400G Pro which supports ECC while the 3400G does not. The 3400G Pro as well as all of the APUs which support ECC are OEM products only.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on February 12, 2021, 08:18:03 pmI was under the impression ECC was unofficially supported across the entire range.E: Oh, they're playing market segmentation games with the APUs. Come on AMD, don't be like Intel.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 09:20:38 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 12, 2021, 08:54:33 pmI do not understand AMD's reasoning on this issue but they have always or almost always disabled ECC on their non-Pro non-OEM APUs. Their CPUs intended for embedded use support ECC just like Intel does, but that is not very useful for a general purpose PC build.Perhaps even more puzzling is supporting ECC on the APUs at all, since I have never found an OEM system using these OEM only processors which supported ECC.But since their CPUs support ECC, motherboards for them are available at reasonable prices, and the cost of a GPU is not too much, it is merely an annoyance compared to Intel's policies.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 10:30:21 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 12, 2021, 12:30:20 amSure, but not sure what your point is. Maybe it was more profitable to pull apart an OEM system and sell it as parts than to sell the entire system.They obviously have a legitimate way to get *new* CPUs as they sell a ton of those.I buy Shimano components directly from China, buying them locally costs ~2x more. The parts are exactly the same. Its a combination of regional pricing strategy and OEM vs retail markets.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 10:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 12, 2021, 10:30:21 pmYour assertion,"They obviously have a legitimate way to get *new* CPUs as they sell a ton of those."is non sequitur.They (or their "neighboring" sellers at the same sites) sell a lot of ICs, capacitors, and various branded products. If your assertion held true, then all those cheap wares are obviously legitimate, because they sell a ton of them.No. These are used products, and removed from OEM motherboardsfor a reason.Quote from: thm_w on February 12, 2021, 10:30:21 pmAnd I've happily bought a dozen BuyDisplay/EastRising display modules now; and would have bought a pair of 1.2m SBR20 rails with four SBR20UU linear bearings from a Chinese supplier on eBay, but they couldn't ship to Finland and had to cancel my order. I love my Mean Well power supplies, too.What does this have to do with selling refurbished processors? Like I said, I don't like the idea of not knowingwhythe processors were refurbished; it sounds to me very much like recovering the processors from large sets of damaged motherboards (storage facility issue? a manufacturer issue?). I'd be perfectly willing to pay 30-50€ extra to get one from a reputable Finnish or large European seller, just for the guarantees and peace of mind.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:58:17 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 12, 2021, 10:51:47 pmAs I said, if you're not comfortable buying used parts then don't. That supplier also sells new parts. This is their new 4750g listing:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001335480005.htmlAlthough personally I would not drop that much on a processor.If you want the part sold locally at retail, then you'll have to be patient until it arrives in your market. China can sometimes be the first place to get newly released Chinese/Taiwan/Malaysian made parts.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 04:03:26 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 12, 2021, 11:58:17 pmYep, it's just that the market right now seems to be in an odd place here as processors introduced a year and a half ago are still unobtainium (Ryzen 3 3200G, Ryzen 5 3400G), except as part of OEM setups (whichareeasily and immediately available here).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:44:28 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 13, 2021, 04:03:26 amThey were easily obtainable last summer and a whole year before that. Now obtainable too but you likely will need to pay extra to get one.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 07:21:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on February 13, 2021, 06:44:28 pmBy "market", I meant the standard, reputable, official sources in Finland and Europe. They're all out.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 06:09:39 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 13, 2021, 07:21:30 pmI don't understand why you keep insisting on that. It's not true. I linked a source above. Others linked to sources. Here's two more:https://www.tones.be/nl/article/130551https://maxict.nl/amd-ryzen-5-3400g-processor-37-ghz-4-mb-l3-p12196479.html?btwview=in&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=tweakersI don't know about Finland but things are not as bad in Europe as you think they are...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 11:20:47 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 15, 2021, 06:09:39 amIf I wanted a 4 core processor, I would've bought one in 2008.These are low end parts, that nobody wants, because they are a step backwards from what we already have.And it is listed as a server processor, for companies and there is 1 on stock.Please try to find a webshop with the 12 core Ryzen. 5900 I think.Meanwhile intel seemingly discounted it's lineup, so the 10700K is sold at 280 EUR. It is very tempting to just go and buy one. On the other hand they should introduce 2 new lineup in like 3 months time.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 03:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 15, 2021, 11:20:47 pmYou are right, off course, but he specifically asked for the 3400G, so...You're slightly less right about 12core Ryzens, though...https://www.mindfactory.de/Hardware/Prozessoren+(CPU)/AMD+Desktop.html/14/661:662

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 11:18:27 pm
content: I run an Intel 8800 machine with integrated graphics.I used to upgrade a lot but find with my current machine it is now at a level where I dont need to.Despite it being integrated graphics I am not finding a problem with graphics speed.I do a lot of CAD work and software development and its fast enough.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 08:44:17 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 17, 2021, 03:54:26 pmOnce again, they dont ship abroad, unless you buy it as a company.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 08:59:03 am
content: Zen 3 8-cores are easy to get. Zen 2 12-cores are easy to get. Zen 3 12-cores you can get but not as easily. I don't see why people keep shouting doom and gloom. No, you can't get the exact processor you want the exact way you want it. But if that is your biggest problem in life, I'd see you'll be fine.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 09:29:17 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 18, 2021, 08:59:03 amYou really don't understand what we are discussing here, do you?

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 10:10:03 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 18, 2021, 09:29:17 am*Shrugs* Maybe not. People seem to complain they can get stuff. And when they're pointed to places they *can* get them they still seem to complain it's not *exactly* what they want or *how* they want it. But as you said, maybe I just don't get it.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 11:22:59 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 18, 2021, 10:10:03 amThis reminds me of a discussion I had a while back, when I was looking for silicon leads; i.e. copper cables with a silicon based covering, instead of PVC.The stuff you can buy off eBay is not actually silicon, but overly plasticized PVC. It feels like silicon, sure, but the plasticizer easily leeches out of the cables, degrading them, and depending on the container, can actually bond with their container at the molecular level. Cheap Aneng multimeter leads are a good example: the cables easily bond with the pouch the An8008 comes with, because of the extra plasticizer.Most users don't care: a lead is a lead is a lead. If it is flexible and is not copper-clad aluminium, why complain? Yet, PVC ain't silicone: light them on fire, and you'll see the difference.You are pointing out unofficial sources that do not sell to private persons in Finland, and sources that provide no guarantees whatsoever to a customer in Finland, and are wondering why anyone is even talking about it, since you can buy this stuff for yourself just fine. I'm not you. I'm not describing you how inept I am at finding a product I desperately need, because I do not: I am describing an odd situation I am seeing in the market, one that I have really not seen with Intel/AMD processors in ~ 25 years. Yes, I know, there is always a shortage when they are introduced. But,no official channels for retail, only OEM? Odd.During the spinning rust era, we had a sudden issue with HDD availability (a large factory burned down or something; it does not matter). That affected everybody. This is different: there is no problem in getting OEM products with these processors, those are easily available. No shortage there. (If I wanted an used processor, I could just buy an OEM board or full machine myself, and reuse or sell the extra parts. That's not the issue here.) Here in Finland, although the processors are easily available in OEM setups, the processors themselves are very hard to findnew, from official sources. And when a reseller has stock, it's only a few units. It isstrange.One would think that the market situation is dictated by what sells, but that is not what I am seeing. I am seeing a clear distinction between availability to OEMs and availability to end customers, well after the initial introduction of the products.Strange.I am not used to seeing this in this market. I would feel this same weirdness if for example Digikey/Mouser/LCSC advertised zero stocks and unknown lead times for many ARM-based microcontrollers, but at the same time had lots of development kits using those exact same microcontroller chips,in stock. Odd market strategy.I also do not believe that this is a market-wide processor issue, just some kind of marketing wonkiness by AMD, because Intel Core i5-10600, i7-10700, and i9-10900 are all available from most stores (these all being 65W TDP with integrated graphics). It could be (and others have indicated it might be) related to other semiconductor shortages; perhaps AMD is having supply issues or something that Intel is not (or not nearly as much).As to what exact processor-motherboard combo I shall be getting, I haven't decided; I've got no particular hurry yet, and can wait and see what happens on the market.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 12:06:16 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 18, 2021, 11:22:59 amBefore leaving this thread (with no hard feelings I may hope) allow me to say I haven't pointed to a single "unofficial source".

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 01:34:53 pm
content: Finland is not quite the center of the world, quantities moved there by distributors/resellers are peanuts compared to the numbers moved in China and USA. So maybe it's no surprise, not all obscure parts are readily available.But you certainly know that.If you consider sources anywhere outside your country as "not trustworthy", just wait until you can buy it locally. Or go with something else. *We* can't help you, if your requirements are (currently) too hard to meet.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 01:57:52 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 18, 2021, 11:22:59 amReally? You can easily find pre-built machines with 4750Gs in them in stock there?That's indeed strange then as the OEMs are only getting a trickle of them, they're still on allotment everywhere.I guess nobody is buying them?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 10:27:38 pm
content: Quote from: drussell on February 18, 2021, 01:57:52 pmhttps://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-elitedesk-805-g6-desktop-mini-pc-customizable-2q297av-mbSays "in stock", but ship date march 10thhttps://www.csl-computer.com/mini-pc-csl-mini-itx-ryzen-7-pro-4750g-win-10.html18 working days

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2021, 12:36:39 am
content: Quote from: drussell on February 18, 2021, 01:57:52 pmRight now it looks like3 to 5 daysfor HP EliteDesk 805 G6 with a 4750G,2 to 4 dayswith 4650G. Gaming PC's like Asus ROG Strix GL10 with Ryzen 5 3400G (plus a separate Nvidia GTX 1650 graphics card) arein stock.Quote from: Haenk on February 18, 2021, 01:34:53 pmNo, I do not consider sources outside Finland as "not trustworthy". I'm a happy customer of hardware from KAMAMI, Watterott, Pollin, etc.But I do need them to 1) sell to private customers without VAT registration, 2) be in a language I can understand (English, for example; my German is so rusty to be almost useless, and I speak no French nor Dutch), and 3) indicate on their web pages they're happy to serve customers within the EU.None of the suggested links thus far in this thread have fulfilled all three points above.Also, I amnotinterested in buying processors removed from existing motherboards, even if said combos were new. I've already explained why. (And if my previous explanations do not convince you, then this: If I want an used processor, earlier in this post I've shown I can just buy an OEM rig myself, and sell the extra parts I don't want or need.)Quote from: Haenk on February 18, 2021, 01:34:53 pmPerhaps it surprises you, but that also means thatthus far, it has also meant that recently released products (motherboards, processors) have been easier to get here than in e.g. Germany, exactly because the market is smaller: the batches needed to cater to the market are smaller, and thus easier to fulfull. And before, they have been, pretty much, unless the shortage has been worldwide.Please, reread my initial post. The two key sentences were"But no, AMD only sells these to OEMs. What the fuck?"and"I did not realize that the world of "we'll decide whether you can buy this or not, peasant!" has progressed this far already!"See? I am expressing incredulity at AMD strategy, and the observable change in how (Finnish) computer and computer component market has made a sudden change.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2021, 06:09:47 pm
content: TL;DRHere is a Dutch store that apparently sells some:https://www.alternate.nl/AMD/Ryzen-7-PRO-4750G-3-6-GHz-(4-4-GHz-Turbo-Boost)-socket-AM4-processor/html/product/1714171However, that same store got some reviews about bent pins on a similar processor.AMD announced from the start these processors would be OEM only for the forseeable future, and the covid madness turned the whole world upside down. Half or more of the stuff AMD makes is just sold out almost everywhere.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2021, 09:44:09 pm
content: Thanks for the link.I'm seriously considering an i9-10900 or i7-10700 with an MSI Z490-A Pro motherboard, in case anyone is interested.In particular, i7-10700 is roughly equivalent to Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G, but is locally available for 304 - 319 €.After all, this is just a tool – and a project, since I'm going to build it into a custom silent enclosure; I'm notthatstuck on any hardware!I only started this thread because I found AMD's policy of selling these processors only to OEMs really weird.FWIW, for an antenna rotator project for a friend, I was looking at cast iron weights (radius doesn't matter, but thickness preferably around 40mm or less; and cast iron so I can drill it to put an M8/M10/M12 threaded rod through it in the plane of the weight) to be used as a counterweight, and those too seem to be sold out in local stores!Makes sense in these times, of course, to do your weight lifting at home, instead of at a sweaty gym.The counterweight we have is just a grubby old 5kg lump of who knows what which is not really that symmetric, and is a bit underweight, so a 7.5kg disk-style cast iron weight would be pretty good for this.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2021, 09:59:07 pm
content: Yeah weights are sold out or going for ~$3-4/lb which is 4x the usual rate here.Maybe a local metal scrap yard would be worth looking in if bored. They could probably make a half decent side business melting down random steel into plates.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2021, 10:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 03, 2021, 09:44:09 pmYou should also consider full system cost. 4750G will work just fine on EUR 55 A520 mobo FWIW. It will even have features comparable with low end Z490.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2021, 10:14:19 pm
content: how about a stage weight or is 12.5kg to heavy

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 12:10:38 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on March 03, 2021, 10:14:19 pmIt is too heavy.The antenna is a bit over a meter and a half long, and weighs about a kilogram, so to keep the outer edge of a circular counterweight close to the axis of rotation, something like 5-7 kg, depending on the diameter of the counterweight, is needed. (The exact distance will be adjustable, but I'd prefer to keep the outer end less than 45cm away from the axis of rotation, so that we don't need taller vertical supports.)If I had a scrapyard or a friendly metal shop nearby, I'm sure I could get a suitable counterweight there. But 5 kg and 7.5 kg cast iron lifting weights would work quite well, and not cost too much, if only they weren't sold out.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 08:11:51 pm
content: Why not cast a weight in concrete?If you need holes you can cast around some plastic tubes, or a wooden stick and drill it out.If it's very thin in comparison to diameter, add a bit of metal mesh.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 04:57:41 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on March 11, 2021, 08:11:51 pmIt is a possibility, yes. A circular disk of ~ 4cm thickness would need a radius of somewhere around 25cm to get the weight to around 7 kg. But it would be a bit "crumbly" around the edges, and some sort of internal reinforcement would be needed. Lot of effort for a simple counterweight.