Simple technical illustration software/tools? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 01:50:38 am
content: I'm struggling to find the right tool - I'm guessing it probably doesn't exist all in one tool but it doesn't hurt to ask.I need to draw some semi-technical drawings on a fairly regular basis. These are the types of drawings you'd see in a user manual or online as part of a guide on how to do something. Quite often, they're wiring diagrams or other diagrams showing how to do something slightly mechanical, etc. Most are for teaching and/or assembly instruction type purposes.I've tried a lot of tools, and had started describing what I liked about each, but instead maybe I should just put what I'd like into a list, so here goes:Ability to paste clipart or other imagesText tool optimized for adding text to images. For example, being able to place a contrasting 'outline' in order to make the text stand out from the imageVarious easy to use 'callout' tools. I.E. arrows and balloons. I'm not talking about clipart of these elements - actually being able to draw a callout of a few styles is neededLine tool which is optimized for connecting two points on two objects. i.e. I want to draw a line between two connector pins and have it look like a wire instead of a square line with poorly-connected corners. It's amazing how many tools let you draw lines, but don't make it easy to "connect" two objects with a line, or worse, think a bezier curve is the solution for anything curvy.Useful coloring options for lines - for example, I need to be able to represent wires that are 'white with green stripes'. I don't care if it's alternating white/green dashes with a black outline, or if they're angled or something else, but I do need to be able to represent themVisually good looking results from above. Don't want horrible text rendering, want my callouts to be visually nice as well. This means that the software probably is a bit 'graphically opinionated'. I can live with someone else's design choices here as long as the result is usableI'm sure I've left some things off, but I think this gives at least the gist of what I'm looking for - a simple way to markup or draw images which are of the type that you need to draw to explain some technical concept to someone else in electricity/electronics, but without resorting to full-blown CAD software or doing a schematic (that a lot of people can't read anyways).Some things I've tried: Snagit editor hits most of the points here, but their line tool is atrocious. Smartdraw has a good line tool (except alternating color options), but is pretty dismal everywhere else. Visio is just a PITA licensing wise and it isn't really what I'm looking for. I've tried various CAD packages, but that's CAD and either you spend a lot of time doing 3D or you end up with a mechanical drawing which isn't the goal here. Photoshop and similar tools are too feature rich (but they're great if you want to do it all by hand). I could go on, but I won't.So, anyone have a quick drawing tool they like which allows them to produce good looking drawings without a lot of work?

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 02:35:19 am
content: I would say Libre Office Draw but it's a huge install and slow and lumbering, but does get you a drawing package that I think might do the job

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 03:01:31 am
content: Have you tried Dia or Inkscape?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 05:30:43 am
content: PowerPoint was what I used before I retired. In corporate environments licensing isn't an issue. It checks most of your boxes, but is weak on the connecting line feature. I have little experience with LibreOffice Draw but it should come close. Recent releases of LibreOffice are not as slow and clunky as earlier versions.Both these programs are relatively easily accessible by the recipients of your material, a big advantage over the more specialized stuff out there.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 05:54:27 am
content: We used old JASC Paintshop Pro 7free ... decades old.http://www.oldversion.com/windows/paint-shop-pro-7-0Jon

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 06:02:19 am
content: These days I use a mix of tools depending on what exactly I want to illustrate. yEd is my go-to tool for block diagrams:http://www.yworks.com/products/yedYou can insert images. But it's a diagramming tool at heart, so there are benefits and constraints that go with that.Otherwise, for something more flexible, Inkscape is good:https://inkscape.org/For block diagrams that can be generated from a text representation (which can be automated), there is the venerable graphviz:https://graphviz.gitlab.io/and d2, which I've discovered as of late, and while simple, is not too bad either:https://d2lang.com/

author: Faranight
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 06:31:20 am
content: TheDraw.iois online and free to use:https://app.diagrams.netBack in the days I also usedWondershare EdrawMax. Although it's a paid version, I found it very useful and fully featured.

author: selcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 07:44:58 am
content: I think you need to spend time for a good looking drawing. For user manuals, datasheets etc. I can recommend inkscape + scribus. You can prepare complex vector graphics with inkscape and import them to scribus to do the rest of the document. You can do drawings with scribus as well but inkscape has a more range of tools.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 12:22:36 pm
content: Nowadays I find myself using the online wordprocessing and presentation tools from Google quite a lot for this purpose. It works quite well and is easy to share. All you need is a free Google account.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 12:59:09 pm
content: I don't do that kind of work but I would suggest that you look at GIMP. I think it will do everything that you want. And it's been released to the public domain so it will probably be available for a LONG time, unlike some of the other photo editors that have how gotteninsanelyexpensive. And it is available for Apple, Windows and Linux.About 10 or 15 years ago my wife did a lot of reasonable simple drawings with drawings and text and flow charts etc for her work with Power Point and they turned out very well but I don't know what the licensing for PP is like today or, if like some of the other products, it has gotten too complicated for simple tasks.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 03:23:28 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on May 10, 2024, 02:35:19 amI've been using LibreOffice for many years, but I hadn't played with draw for ... well, let's just say a long time. It used to be just not good.At first glance, this seems like it has improved quite a bit, I'll give it a good shot. The first impressions are that the tools work like I'd like, it's just styling that I'll have to mess with.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 03:46:55 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 10, 2024, 03:01:31 amUnfortunately Dia hasn't been updated for a long time (almost 10 years), and it isn't really the tool I'm looking for in it's present form due to it's rather plain graphics style.Inkscape is a great drawing tool. I used to use it quite a bit before I ended up with an Adobe Creative Cloud Subscription with Adobe Illustrator which is a very similar commercial program. The problem I have with both for what I'm looking for here is that while it's a great drawing tool, it isn't great for quick production of the illustrations I'm needing to do. In the programming world I'd call what I'm looking for "opinionated", meaning the creator has made a lot of decisions for you about what works well so you don't have to think about it that much. I.E. when you put text on top of an image you by default get a contrasting outline around text, or a connector line does at least something which might be correct if you click on the two "connection" points - it does all the curves in the middle.Inkscape and Illustrator (and for that matter, many drawing softwares) are more of a "here are all the tools you need to do a drawing, good luck" type of tools, whereas I'm hoping for something which is more end-purpose-focused on "educational drawings" where I don't have to be an artist or take the time to do artist-like stuff.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 03:56:09 pm
content: For anything assembly related or mechanical, I'd always recommend taking screenshots or doing renders within the CAD package you designed the parts in. If for no other reason that that you already have everything modelled in there, and already know the CAD program's interface well. Usually it helps if you turn on visual settings within the CAD software to make edge lines (lines marking outlines or hard/sharp edges) bold and fat, and if you hide lines which divide up smooth curves in to fla faces (if it is a mesh type model where everything is a triangle or quad if you zoom in enough). You'll usually want perspective view rather than the orthographic many packages use as default. You can then post-process these renders/screenshots a bit further in GIMP or Photoshop (or equivalent) to further hide irrelevant details and highlight important ones.GIMP has a downloadable arrow plugin that lets you draw arrows with two or three clicks, and makes overlaying text easy. And there are methods to make both arrow and text have a contrasting outline (black text with a thin white border or such) which makes it clearly visible even atop a chaotic brightly coloured background image. As far as arrows go, you can also often add them within the CAD package before rendering.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 04:30:48 pm
content: Quote from: selcuk on May 10, 2024, 07:44:58 amOne thing I should have probably mentioned is that I have and use the entire Adobe Creative Cloud suite that has Adobe Illustrator which I use fairly heavily. For things that are "permanent" I'm going to spend a lot of time getting things right using illustrator and other tools. This includes such silly things like color grading all the raw images and ensuring font sizes/types and line styles are consistent across documents, and so on.This is more for responses to tech support-type questions like "I'm trying to wire your widget up to my thingamajig and can't figure it out". Often this means taking our stock photo of our widget and then grabbing a picture/screen grab of the thingamajig and then drawing 'wires' between them. Sometimes callouts are needed. Sometimes, other elements, such as simple text. I don't want to spend hours on a single response. Instead, I want to take 5 minutes to produce something serviceable that doesn't look like I spent 5 minutes on it and that I have no pride in my work.I think a lot of my underlying issue is that I have and continue to do various pieces of graphic design, and it pains me to send out really bad drawings. I guess I really want a tool that lets me quickly throw together a not-perfect drawing that, at a minimum, doesn't have the egregious sins that you end up with in most drawing programs. For example, scaling callout 'art' shouldn't also stretch the 'arrow' part of the callout (which I'm also finding to be a common sin of this type of software).

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 06:31:18 pm
content: Configuring Inkscape to your workflow, paying extra attention to preset grids you can enable/disable, scaling options you already mentioned, and using advanced snapping options to do the details, is a must in my opinion. Inkscape has many per-document settings, but also "global" user interface settings; tuning all those, perhaps with a few custom templates for typical work, is a lot of work, but in the end, worth it.Here's a few I've drawn in Inkscape just for fun, illustrating technical discussions and questions and answers here and elsewhere:(Click to view larger/smaller)I can't say whether I'd consider them proper illustrations or just doodles, because I don't spend much time on these – only enough to get my idea/argument across – but they're definitely technical. If you can't tell, I use at least one grid in every SVG illustration I create.As to plots and such, I usually use gnuplot (curves) or Graphviz (graphs) to generate the SVG, then finesse it a bit in Inkscape. (At minimum, I convert text to paths, so that it renders the same way for everyone regardless of available fonts.)

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 07:10:40 pm
content: Adobe stuff is very good but it does have its moments where it wont do what you want becuase it is trying to second guess what you are doing and does the wrong thing.You might find it worth getting some tuition on using it for what you want. There is plenty of scripting options that might help your workflow but you need to know the right incantions to get it to work. I miss macromedia and their program called Freehand, that was really easy to draw with but it got bought out by Adobe where they killed the software off, even the golden goose aka Flash.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 05:07:15 am
content: Cad Standard by Apperson and Daughterswww.cadstd.com. Nice niche 8 layer 2d Cad app. Pro version is worth it. If it only supported symbols and a merge tool, , it would be perfect.Steve

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 05:19:15 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on May 11, 2024, 05:07:15 amLooks like a nice tool, to be fair. And the "pro" license is pretty cheap too. Seems to be Windows-only, which some will not like, but it does look like one of those nicely-written Windows programs of the old days.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 09:35:22 am
content: I prefer using a 2D drafting program for my design work that does not require 3D. Most 2D drafting programs will allow you to create a library of parts to suit whatever style of work you want to do. Schematic symbols, your balloon bubbles, logic symbols, etc. All can be created in libraries and then used with a click or two in your drawings.I am working on learning and converting to QCAD since my preferred 2D CAD program is no longer supported. Converting drawings from one to the other, creating part libraries to suit my needs, etc.Oh, and most 2D CAD programs will allow you to import an image and either draw over it or directly include it in the drawing you are creating.The trick with getting your lines to meet cleanly with other lines or with features on an object is to use a grid and having the points on that line SNAP to that grid. With everything on the grid. it all lines up.You mention lines that look like wires. While I don't like illustrations that try to "look like" a bird's nest of wires, you can create curved lines that pass through all the points that you click on. With them, it is fairly easy to run from one point on one object to a second point on a second object.What's that leave? Oh, lines with different colors. That's one I have never seen in technical drawings. Is this for a kindergarten? The way I have ALWAYS seen this handled is with text next to the wire that describes the colors.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 06:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on May 11, 2024, 09:35:22 amYou are so wrong here. Colored lines are an immense help to simply connection diagrams. Ofcourse you can't use an endless amount of colors (especially with keeping color blind people in mind), but still, coloring important lines helps a lot to convey information quickly. It is much easier to check correct order of colors compared to a drawing than compared a tag on wires.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 08:26:42 pm
content: One trick I use extensively in both Inkscape and EasyEDA for crossing lines, is using a short thicker line segment between the crossing lines in stacking order, parallel to the topmost line, to create very thin apparent "breaks" in the lower line. I believe it makes schematic diagrams easier to read. Consider the following display adapter schematic as an example:Yes, I do always use the dots to show a connection, and never do four-way connections, but I believe the apparent breaks help perceive the diagram correctly faster.Note that in the EasyEDA schematic, there is no break in the line: the break is only a visual effect caused by a thick background-colored "art line" placed between the wires in the stacking order. Thus, this is purely a visual effect, and does not affect connectivity or DRC (design rules checks).KiCAD currently draws all wires separately from art lines, and does not support changing the order in which they are drawn (although the file format specifies such an order).In the above schematic, I've also used the color of the wires to roughly group their purpose: black for ground, red for supply, green for parallel bus data lines, and blue for various other logic level signals. I'm sure it would not pass a professional review, and proper EE PCB designers would laugh at it, but as an illustration/schematic for hobbyists, it for sure works. (Although I'd use a proper current source for the backlight LEDs instead of a 25 ohm resistance, as discussed in one of the threads I started about driving backlight LEDs, with options to balance the current if the four backlight LEDs weren't matched well enough. And some of the not connected logic pins might be better tied to ground or VCC, depending on the display controller chip preferences.)

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 10:19:11 pm
content: I am quite addicted to color (depends on the audience and target medium of course, but I think a general audience appreciates color, not everyone is into black-and-white technical drawings for information!). Sometimes to restrain myself, I'll chose a palette of just 2-3 colors and hammer them repeatedly. And sometimes (I hate it but it makes sense) I'll ask myself "what would Apple do" and re-do an entire diagram just to simplify even further if I can, to strip out further stuff, rearrange with hindsight, etc.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 10:27:23 pm
content: If you say so.Quote from: nctnico on May 11, 2024, 06:56:24 pm

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 11:19:15 pm
content: I thought of using one line on top of another, with different colors and the top line being a dashed one. However, it is a bit of trouble to draw lines that way.I have actually drawn a part in my electronic symbols library which used that idea. It is a "bridge" that can be placed over a place where two wires cross at a right angle. I used a white line to cover the horizontal line "under the bridge". It works quite well but it is a library "part" that can be used with just one or two mouse clicks. Drawing individual lines that way would require a lot more work and it would need to be done for each multi-color line.Or now that I think a bit, perhaps at least a horizontal and a vertical line could also be created as parts in that library. I may look at that.Also some CAD programs allow the user to create new line styles. My old 2D CAD allowed that but I don't think different colors could be used. My new one, QCAD, doesn't seem to do that but it could be suggested to the people in charge of software development.Oh, and one thing that I like to find in any drafting program that I use is the availability of of the software developers. The lack of that is one big reason why I did not and still do not like the "industry standard" AutoCAD. Sure you could submit suggestions. But you were not allowed to discuss them with the programmers unless they choose to contact you.The 2D CAD program that I did purchase those many decades ago, EasyCAD, had a discussion group, likt this one, and the head programmer who was also the head of the company WAS PRESENT on that site every day. In fact I once posted about a problem that I found and he became aware of it the same day. When I returned to the group the NEXT day he had posted the availability, at no extra charge, a revised version of the program that completely fixed that problem. THE VERY NEXT DAY!Neither AutoCAD nor any other expensive 2D CAD program ever gave that kind of service.When I was looking for a new 2D program, one of the things that I wanted was that kind of commitment from the software engineers. I discovered that QCAD had a similar group and I joined before purchasing the program. I discovered that some of the ones who almost immediately answered my questions, were indeed in that group of programmers. And I could and DID have conversations with them about features in that program. I like that. I think that is important when considering which program to use because sooner or later you are going to find a bug that needs to be fixed or to want a new feature. And, as they said in that motion picture, "Who yo gonna call?"Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 11, 2024, 08:26:42 pm

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 11:24:26 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on May 11, 2024, 10:19:11 pm8% of men and 0.1% of women have a form of colour blindness.And some of those diagramsseriouslysuck. Reminds me of "GeoCities" concept of "neat".Here's what it looks like to someone with a three different simple colour defects:https://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 11:25:04 pm
content: And while such cartoon drawings may help the novice at first, they ultimately are an impediment to the continuation of that process. In fact, IMHO, they actually set that novice backwards in the process of understanding electronics or other technical subjects. The sooner they are introduced to professional methods, the better.Quote from: shabaz on May 11, 2024, 10:19:11 pm

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 12:36:54 am
content: Quote from: EPAIII on May 11, 2024, 11:25:04 pmWhat, introduced to professional methods like KiCad for schematics?I have produced a video that has (hopefully) helped at least a few hundred people do just that; it has 79k views. I think I've done as much as the next person to help regarding schematics.Not everyone wants to immediately see deep schematic detail, some would prefer to see a block diagram or high-level sketch. I eat my own dogfood, many of these diagrams are also for my personal reference, I rely on their legibility and usability too, I'm not foisting things on others that I have not used myself. And if a color-blind person (or not! - some may have issues understanding other aspects) has a problem with it, I'm more than happy to help them.Also, regarding color, it's a bit silly to keep caveating things, but like I stated, it depends on the audience and target medium. Diagrams for professional consumption are usually done using corporate library symbols and conventions obviously. They spend a lot of time getting their branding right, and they stick with conventions.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 12:51:23 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on May 12, 2024, 12:36:54 amThe author must present the information necessary for the audience to understand their point.Anybody who thinks that rules out high-level sketches is, um, very inexperienced. Anybody that claims high level sketches are bad per se, is a person that should be ignored.QuoteWhat you do for personal consumption is your business.If youreally dowant to help color blind people, then avoid colour. Then there's nothing to discuss! Job done.If you think you can help a red-blind person and a blue-blind person and a green-blind person all at once, then I'd like to see your colour palette!

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 01:19:40 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 12, 2024, 12:51:23 amIf you really do want to help color blind people, then avoidrelying oncolor, or using unnecessary color effects like gradients that can distract.Many old diagrams and schematics were black and white, because their reproduction could not support color (or would have been very expensive). Or, if you're even older, blue and white. There is a reason corrections to proofs (or homework) are made in distinct colors.There is nothing wrong in using color to convey useful additional information, if it does not detract from the content/intent/message.Although the colors in my EasyEDA schematics are mostly primary colors, in diagrams I prefer less garish pastel colors, often testing if their grayscale versions look useful too.Curve plots are the hardest, because colors give the best discernment; different line styles all reduce the information content (dashed/dotted lines omit parts of the curve, and markers overlap with curves). In cases where the curves have a specific order, having the key/legend list them in the same order is good backup technique; even better is to also label each curve in the plot itself.Visualization is all about controlling the information conveyed. If you limit to the simplest set of tools, most will perceive the images as dull and information-sparse. The trick is to ensure the most important information is clearest to all, and use the tools that do not work for all viewers for the less important but still mostly useful information. (Also, even if oneknowsall the rules and tricks,applyingthem and getting nice results is still a different thing. Just look at mine: I know more about visualization than most, and yet mine are just adequate, nothing special.)

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 01:30:58 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 12, 2024, 12:51:23 amWell then you agree. It's a good thing to show high-level sketches or diagrams. My comment was to EPAIII's quoted text regarding drawings being an impediment eventually. You cannot get in the mind of all readers to know if they are novices or eventual experts who might not need the high-level diagrams!QuoteAt first glance, the colorations you applied have not caused any noticeable text or lines to disappear in those diagrams. They seem legible.It may take longer to comprehend them with color-blindness issues, which, of course, is regrettable. But your solution is not the only one, otherwise it would be rare to ever see any diagrams in color. What you think sucks, others may think otherwise. Everyone doesn't just want technically accurate black-and-white diagrams in all contexts. Some people prefer seeing color and they don't have to justify it, they might not even know the reason themselves, but it might help them follow things better. What you think sucks, others might think of completely differently.If one truly wants to help _all_ people, then one can try to stand by one's work and address others' needs when they ask because you can't predict everyone's problems. Some may have difficulty understanding a shape or a technical term. Others may be doing something slightly different and a diagram might not fully apply to their scenario, and they might ask for help.Also, being polite helps; otherwise, people just switch off. That might not bother everyone, but it does mean one is helping less people than they could, perhaps affecting more than the small percentage of the 8% that are color-blind that unfortunately hit a part of a diagram that they couldn't follow and didn't ask for further help.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 04:08:47 am
content: Saying not to use color because color blind people cannot see them well or at all is somewhat like saying to not use pictures and diagrams at all because blind people cannot see them, or not to have advanced math or physics texts because they are beyond the comprehension of many.Rather than reducing all communication to the lowest common denominator of human capability, we should be able to use all of the tools available when they are useful. Use of color for mere decoration should be avoided, and back-ups are welcome when available.Colored lines are useful in identifying wires, but backing them up with labels is also helpful. And we should also beware of situations where color is harmful. Use of only an approximate color, or worse a color that seems approximately right on a poorly adjusted monitor, combined with wires that also have a weird initial hue that has further drifted with time can actually be worse than no color.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 07:30:56 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 12, 2024, 01:19:40 amModification acceptedQuoteColour - when used judiciously - can enhance the content/intent/message.Too often it is used poorly; either the colours are irrelevant or detract from the content, or in extreme cases they obscure the content.It isusuallypossible to avoid using colour to convey information. Graphic designers may not like the result, but then they are responsible for far too many dismal web pagesQuoteSpot on!I use the RSS feeds to follow the daily posts on these sites, which are directly relevant to the topic.https://flowingdata.com/https://informationisbeautiful.net/

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 07:36:07 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 12, 2024, 04:08:47 amAgreed - and nobody has advocated that.QuoteAgreed.Now, exactly whatisthe colour of "the dress that broke the internet"?For the answers, start athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress"The study, which involved 1,400 respondents, found that 57 per cent saw the dress as blue and black, 30 per cent saw it as white and gold, 11 per cent saw it as blue and brown, and two per cent reported it as 'other'"

author: Tation
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 09:01:26 am
content: The wiring schematics of a motorbike I owned were drawn in colours so that each connection matched the colors of the real wire in the bike, and there were no repeated color combinations. All wires in the schematic were in two colours, say a green "core" with yellow "sides".Always wondered about what tool did they use to draw such schematics.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 09:54:51 am
content: if you want some programming control over vertices/edges diagrams, take a look atyEd.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 12:03:37 pm
content: Quote from: forrestc on May 10, 2024, 01:50:38 amBefore you give up on it, look at older versions that you can get on eBay for next to nothing. Like most of the rest of the Office suite they haven't really added anything of value in at least 20 years so using older versions is just fine. I'm using Visio 2003, I'm not going to go so far as to say it's good but it does suck a lot less than anything equivalent that I've tried, and cost me $0.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 04:04:46 pm
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on May 12, 2024, 12:03:37 pmAgreed, Visio is a simple to use tool and the older versions are just as good. I'm using the version from 2000 myself but since I'm moving away from MS Office, I use it less and less.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 08:31:10 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on May 12, 2024, 07:36:07 amI remember that thingBut i haven't seen it for a long time, and don't remember that particular image.I instinctivley said to myself: white and gold.Then i read your listed responses, and i can definetly see why some say blue and brown. Blue and brown are the actual colors i see there, but i assume seeing that bit of bright background caused my mind to color correct my impression. I still think in proper light the dress is white and gold.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 04:18:39 am
content: I appreciate everyone's responses as I've learned about some tools I didn't know about, and I'm going to try a couple of the tools for real drawings over the next little bit.But... Based on the responses, I think I still haven't conveyed what I'm looking for.I'm literally talking about taking two images and putting text and "wires" on them. I timed one I did a couple days ago.... 2.5 minutes total.Here's the entire workflow:1) grab internal stock images of our products.2) if necessary grab a picture of the product that we're hooking to3) paste both pictures into a canvas.4) use line or marker tool to draw lines between the connection points.5) Add callout boxes and/or text to provide some context or additional non-drawable information.6) save as jpeg, send to customer.I.E. one recently was "I have two batteries and a 24V charger, and your monitoring product. Can you help me hook everything together?". Grab images of the batteries customer is using. Grab image of the charger they say their using, grab stock photo of our product. Use red line tool to draw jumper between two batteries and then a red and black line from the batteries to the charger's battery input. Then draw two more lines and a fuse "square" to the voltage monitoring input on our product. Total investment, 5-10 minutes of my time, customer is happy with our customer support.For permanent drawings, I use a completely different workflow and end up with drawings which are much more professional looking. I use the same tools as everyone is mentioning for these. Instead, what I'm looking for is the equivalent of "photoshop express" for processing photos.To help visually show what I'm wanting to improve on, I just created and uploaded a 3 minute version of what I typically do, with made up images I just grabbed off the web. Seehttps://youtu.be/I5PSOP1PrGg. The grey spots near the front is where I'm grabbing the images off of a browser on another screen. And, I made a couple of mistakes along the way that I had to fix. Plus, I normally just use the black outlined text as I'm often on a mixed background that it is helpful for - so I wasn't sure the best way to turn off the outline.What I'm hoping for is a similar "quick drawing" tool which has just enough additional features that it's more useful for the wiring "diagrams" like this I produce. Like I said in a previous message- more options for line coloring (i.e. for striped wires like is found in many cable assemblies), and also some line smoothing/connection tools.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 05:49:17 am
content: PowerPoint meets all the bullet-points that were mentioned, but for sure it's not a 'pro' tool, it's just an easy-to-use tool (mostly!). I can't say if it is quick to use or not, because doing some stuff 'just right' will take time, depending on if one is a perfectionist or not. But if you don't make perfect the enemy of good, then PP can be very quick to create understandable diagrams of the type you showed. I'm just mentioning this in case PP had been written off as a viable option or not, that it might still be worth persevering with, if some of the features of it are unknown.Going through the bullet-points that were mentioned:* Regarding clipart/images, PP works nicely with Snagit. Clean up images (and remove background etc) with Snagit, and then paste into PP.* Text can have outlines, shadow etc with PP* Custom callouts can be created using the shape addition feature in PowerPoint. For instance, combine a rectangle with an arrow. The shape addition/subtraction etc is very empowering generally.* Use the 'Curve' shape to draw lines approximately. Then, refine them using right-click and Edit Points. It takes a bit of practice but you can usually make it follow your preferred path almost entirely with this method.Biggest downside is that the curve doesn't connect to other objects, so you could be tweaking often if the lines are placed too early in the entire diagram. As a result, I mostly rather use straight lines, or elbow connectors, since these will stretch elastically if connected objects are moved. Often you need the connector to attach at a different location on an object, and there are two ways to do that; (a) by right-clicking on the shape and select Edit Points and then add a point, or (b)  draw a smaller simple object, like a triangle, with the apex at the location where you want the connector to join. Group the objects. Now connectors will attach to the apex. After you're sorted, send the triangles to the back, so they are not visible. That technique works very well for putting connections onto arbitrary parts of a photo for instance, and then send them to back after the connections have been made.* Stripey insulation wires can be done by drawing a line or curve, giving it a thickness and a color, and then copy-paste it, and change the line style to dashed, change its color, and then drop it on top of the previous line. Admittedly not straightforward, but the result is good. This works with curved lines and the connector lines.* The resolution from PP is excellent. There is some registry hack googleable to export at very high resolution PNG, but a simpler (lazier : ) approach is to just use a very high-res monitor, go to slideshow mode, and then use Snagit to capture the high-res output directly from the display, rather than an image export.That technique that @Nominal Animal mentioned earlier about thin breaks where lines cross, is something I've found useful too, there's also a slight variation which is to use the 'glow' feature (with color chosen to be white) to give a usually invisible outline to some wires, which becomes visible at crossings.If you look at the color diagrams that were in an earlier comment (before the long distraction of color-blindness) all those diagrams used many of the PP techniques just mentioned (for instance you can see a glow around a wire, use of connectors with hidden triangle apexes to anchor points, and there's also an example of where curved lines were made to join different parts of schematics, where the 'edit points' method was used to make it follow a path). Lots of copy/paste and the alignment and distribution tools within PP are great to speed things up. One other tip to speed up diagrams, is to keep all the 'best bits' in a single ppt file, for reuse. For instance, if you've already created handy callout boxes or particular overlays for photos etc., then you can use bits from that file as a template many times. I often do that with shapes that I created, like batteries, logic gates, even coiled wires of several colors! (since it can take a while to create that initially); it becomes a convenient palette of tech images/icons for your future requests that come up.From my limited use of Visio, I get the feeling that it has a lot of flexibility too, and probably more powerful for diagramming, but I just happened to pick PowerPoint and got used to many of the features within it, that I now have trouble using Visio for anything but standard diagrams (e.g. flow charts etc).

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 07:38:13 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on May 13, 2024, 05:49:17 amI've just spent some time with PowerPoint, and I think you might be right in that this seems easier than I gave it credit for. The drawing tools (and in particular) the curve drawing tools are better than I remember. Couldn't figure out how to do an appropriate "text bloom" which helps provide contrast when pasting text on top of a mixed light and dark image, but it looks like word art might make that possible, or the outlined text might work for that. So thanks for reminding me to look at it again.I do find on occasion I just ignore an option because of past bad experiences. PowerPoint definitely tends to fall in that category since I seem to have to fight some @(#$* poorly designed template some well-meaning conference organizer is forcing upon ALL presentations at the conference. So PowerPoint has cost me many hours of my life - didn't immediately think of it the other way around.You mentioned visio - I used to love visio, but since it got gobbled by Microsoft I find it more and more frustrating every time I try it. I'm not sure why, but I think it might be that it's evolved more to a 'flowcharting' and 'computer diagram' tool. Similar problem with dia and other programs which do a good job of making flowcharts and org charts and the like - they do what they do well, but other things I find frustrating. I've given it a good shot again a few times, but every time, I find myself more frustrated than I should be. Especially for it's cost.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 02:00:12 pm
content: I wrote a step-by-step on how I typically do it in Inkscapein this threadandin this messagein particular.For a simple outline, you can use theFilters>Morphology>Outlineone, and after you get it to look like what you want, move it to the entire layer (by using the XML editor to remove thefilter:url(#filterNNNN);styleattribute from the object you created it for, to the layergelementstyleattribute). That way, whenever you add text or anything else to that line, it is automatically outlined. Of course, you can have more than one such effect layer, with the same or a different effect. The problem is making a nice filter effect(s) that work for all background images, really! Feel free to use or play with my example:

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 02:46:40 pm
content: Fingerdraws on an Arduino touchscreen!

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 03:06:58 pm
content: A hack that may help for PowerPoint is to add very small circles at attachment points on your images, and then group them with the images. Now you have attachment points for your lines which will remain connected if you move the images.If you are doing this often a PowerPoint file containing these images for copy and paste into your replies would mean preparing each image only once

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 05:22:59 pm
content: Since almost every presentation / video I produce is based on PowerPoint, I try to create as many things as possible directly within PowerPoint - there is an awful lot that you can do with the basic drawing tools, and more complex shapes can often be produced with things like Union, Intersect, etc. (which I think many people are unaware of because MS hides them in the PPT menu structure).For more complex illustrations or shapes, I use Adobe Illustrator. I also use Illustrator when I need to have the illustration as a separate, editable file (.svg).And in some cases, I actually use MATLAB to create certain types of graphics, e.g.https://youtu.be/BijMGKbT0Wk?t=307

author: paul@yahrprobert.com
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2024, 05:57:03 pm
content: Take a look at Xournal++. I use it on linux with a graphics tablet for freehand drawing of circuits, but I think it has most of what you need with boxes, text, lines, colors.