Thermal close outs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Hard_ware
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:41:19 am
content: Posted on another forumI purchased the 640 30hz unit with cables and gui $995.00 USDOther units seem like good dealshttp://www.sierraolympic.com/products/outlet/sale-outlet/Admins if not appropriate to post please delete, Sorry

author: Adonlude
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 07:23:54 am
content: What is this company? A 640 30Hz 62mm camera for 950, what's the catch?

author: Hard_ware
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 09:06:50 am
content: Old stock I guess, trying to get rid of it, 90day warranty?That unit is the e6000 which is a 25micron pitch core which is over 5yrs old so I hope it works good.I will post some video when I get the unit I ordered in a couple days.I have never dealt with company before,but they have been around for a while.

author: -jeffB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 05:26:51 pm
content: 15 degree FOV -- that's a pretty long lens.It's tempting, but I've spent a bit too much on hobbies/toys lately, and since it appears to be analog-video-out-only, I think I can talk myself down.

author: homestea
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2016, 07:29:44 pm
content: I was going to post this here as well but it looks like you beat me to it Hard_ware! I'm flyboy101 over on the ARF boards where I started that topic. My 2 E6000 units are suppose to get delivered tomorrow!Looks like Sierra Olympic sells directly to the Military in some instances. I've found an old Mil Contract from back in 2010 regarding the E6000. they bought one of them for $9600.This was a camera core used in the ScanEagle UAV drone deployed over in Iraq between 2006 to 2012. I would imagine that there is probably some still in use over there.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 03:08:09 pm
content: Any news on these cameras please ? Did the 640 X 480 units turn up.?They looked too good to be true and a possible pricing error but bargains do happen occasionally.Fraser

author: Mkpd
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 12:41:50 am
content: The guys over at ar15_com ordered some.. look at their forum for progress on the camera.I know Sierra Olympic and they have been a reputable customer of ours.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 09:37:13 am
content: ThanksFound the thread here......http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/468365_DRS_E6000__640_x_480_Thermal_Camera.html&page=1Interesting reading. It is a very nice camera but I now see why the price is attractive. The unit has great resolution but needs a host to configure and use it. It is a sub assembly of a microprocessor controlled system so this is no surprise.Looks like the clever coders could easily create a dedicated host for the unit or program an R-Pi to act as the host.It is a very nice camera for its intended purpose. Note that it is an observation camera though. Thermal range is stated as plus or minus 50C around ambient. Great for the AR15 guys if they can sort out the host for it.Still a very cheap way to get 640 x 480 resolution with excellent image quality though. I would buy one but it is understandably USA sales only.Fraser

author: homestea
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2016, 03:32:51 pm
content: The thread has been updated with some Vimeo video links from the e6000 as well as some stills so you can see what the image looks like.

author: dpenev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2016, 08:19:18 am
content: Hello,Can this camera be use for close up PCB termal inspection?ThanksDimitarSent from my MI NOTE Pro using Tapatalk

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2016, 11:30:44 am
content: Any camera can be used for close up inspection work provided it is fitted with a suitable close-up Auxilliary lens or has the ability to have its focus adjusted.In this case the close-up lens would need to be the same diameter as the objective, so could be expensive. With regard to manual focus of the optical path, I will let one of the owners of the camera comment as it may, or may not, provide such a facility. Many observation cameras have lenses fixed at an appropriate focus point for long range work. As such they are not that useful for everyday tasks or close-up work, unless modified.I have a long range thermal observation camera that is brilliant for targets at 500m range, but not very useful for a target at 5m ! Totally useless for PCB work due to the lens design (large diameter reflector type).Fraser

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2016, 01:37:05 pm
content: And for 1000$ you have many better options for pcb inspection... (Flir E4, Flir One, Thermal Expert, Therm-App...)

author: dpenev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2016, 02:12:23 pm
content: Hi frenky,If I am not mistaken the Termal Experts T. E – V1 which has similar resolution is about $3000so probably not that irrelevant question I have asked.Can someone comment about the close up lens for this cameras.Is it feasible?ThanksDimitar

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2016, 11:46:07 pm
content: While that's true, looking at the structure of the e6000 I think it won't be very easy to change the lens. Also with the e6000 being a 640x480 25u sensor (which is very large compared to the 17u 320x240 products) you will need a rather large lens to illuminate the sensor.Indeed the 640x480 sensor will definitely provide a nicer image, however it's probably better to give up some resolution for a much more practical form factor.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2016, 10:14:41 am
content: Dimitar,There is detail of using close up Auxilliary lenses in my FLIR E4 useful information thread. The close up lenses that I have been using for many years are really just like fitting 'reading glasses' to your camera !The cheapest lens material for a close up lens is ZnSe as that is commonly used in CO2 laser engravers so is mass produced. The problem for you is that these affordable $30 lenses are normall of diameter 20mm or less as that is what you find in CO2 loser applications. As soon as you look for a ZnSe lens of diameter larger than 20mm the prices jumps up to more 'normal' prices for thermal imaging lenses. Forget Germanium lens elements unless you can find a suitable diameter and specification used on on eBay at a good price. Such is rare and you need to ensure that the AR coating is for LWIR.Whatever the objective lens diameter on the camera may be, you really need a ZnSe 100mm FL Bi-Convex or Planar Convex lens of the same or greater diameter. This is then positioned a few mm in front of the objective and provides a focussed image to the camera at around 100mm which is perfect for a 640x480 resolution camera....... However.......If you bought a 320 X 240 pixel camera it would likely have an objective lens suitable for either manual close up focus or the use of a $30 ZnSe 20mm diameter 100mm or 50mm FL close up lens. If you would have been happy with the component detail produced with the 640 X 320 camera at 100Mm FL, you will get similar detail with a 320x240 camera at FL 50mm, just with a smaller FOV. Worth thinking about as you have far more choice and ease of use in the 320 x 240 resolution market.I have said it before, but it is worth a repeat here. People should not get too hung up on resolution figures. Sure more resolution does produce pretty pictures. But is a pretty picture the requirement or is a decent accurate image more important ? By this I mean, industry has found 320 X 240 resolution fine for thermography both of large targets and small ones like PCB's. Minimum resolvable target size is what is important, not how pretty the picture is. Wildlife photographers are using 1024 X 768 and higher resolutions for broadcast quality thermal imaging.... But they can presumably rent such equipment for a program. I have used a 1024 X 768 resolution camera and it was impressive until I learned how much it cost.... It was then an expensive 'toy' that was far beyond my needs.Photographers and artists may have different needs however, and I understand that. However the thermal imaging domain has always been low resolution when compared to the visual wavelength digital camera domain. I believe that will remain the case until a new sensor technology is invented. Pixel size in a microbolometer is huge when compared to that of your average digital compact camera or CCD chip. More pixels means smaller pixel size and less sensitivity if the sensor and lens sizes are to be kept reasonable.Always consider what you need in a thermal cameras resolution rather than what you would like to own. Your bank manager will thank you !Finally...... If you want to image PCB's, do you want radiometric images ? That is to say, the ability to read the temperature of any point in the image. That is normally important for PCB analysis unless it is an art project. Most observation thermal cameras are not designed to provide a radiometric output for temperature measurement. They are designed to resolve a target that is warmer or cooler than its surroundings and provide the best possible contrast and brightness settings possible to the user. You need to see a target to kill it, you do not normally need to know its exact temperature as well !Hope this helpsFraser

author: agate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 11:12:22 am
content: Quote from: Hard_ware on September 08, 2016, 03:41:19 am

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2016, 07:47:08 pm
content: I purchased one of these cameras and coming from a Seek Thermal Compact the difference in image quality is huge as you might expect. The downsides of course are that it's large and requires external power, video, and control, but I'm working on making mine more mobile. Attached are 2 photos of a water softener, one taken with the Seek and the other with the E6000 for comparison.A question for people more familiar with this sort of thing, but I'm having trouble running the camera off battery power. It takes 4.5V - 14V input, so using a bench power supply I set it to 9V and saw that it was drawing about 360mA. It ran fine like this for over an hour, so I don't think the camera itself has any problems. But when I connect it to a 9V battery pack (made of 6 AAs) the camera only runs for about 20 minutes. After that time it tries to do a calibration and something goes wrong, the shutter activates a few times and the video output goes bad (see the third attachment). What I don't understand is the battery pack seems fine, when the batteries are fresh it measures around 9.7V and after the failure it still shows around 8.5V, well within the input range of the camera. I haven't done anything with circuits since college so I figure I'm missing something obvious here.

author: homestea
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 04:20:53 pm
content: This is interesting! I was planning on running mine on 6x AAs just as you have. So far I have been just running it from a bench power supply. I'm not sure why it's not working more than 20mins powered by the AA batteries. Have you done anymore testing yet? What brand of batteries are you using? Have you tried using the lithium AA type?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2016, 10:04:41 pm
content: It could have much higher burst current draw, despite the low average current. The internal resistance of the batteries is much higher than a bench supply. Perhaps you could try adding some decoupling caps.

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 01:30:31 am
content: Amyk, I think you are right. I don't have a multimeter that can record the peak current, but I triggered the calibration a few times and saw the current go as high as 850mA. I'll try adding the capacitors soon. Thanks.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2016, 08:59:44 pm
content: Anyone wants to add a nice zoom to their cameras ??https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(fs)-thermal-image-zoom-lens/msg1042456/#msg1042456

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2016, 06:56:02 am
content: I gave up on the AA battery pack because I couldn't figure out how to have it deal with the sudden current draw when the camera was calibrating. Instead I picked up some 18650 batteries and made a pack of 3. This worked much better, the camera was still going just fine after 2 hours when I needed to shut it off and do other things.I measured the battery pack voltage every 30 minutes and it looks like it could keep running for a while after.0:00 - 12.50 V0:30 - 12.02 V1:00 - 11.88 V1:30 - 11.72 V2:00 - 11.55 VI also have my Arduino controller built, but it turns out that both the camera serial cable and the serial port on the level shifter are using the same pins for RX/TX, so I have to wait for a null modem adapter to show up before I can really test it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2016, 04:37:13 pm
content: @Paradigimic,I was interested to read that you are going to use an Arduino to control your camera. Would you be willing to share the sketch as I would like to use an Arduino to control some of my cameras via their serial ports. I am new to the Arduino and can learn from your sketch so it would be very helpful to me, and possibly others. What are you using for a keyboard ?Many ThanksFraser

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2016, 03:05:08 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on October 13, 2016, 04:37:13 pmSure, I can post the code once I get a chance to test it. I'm still waiting on my null modem adapter. I only have 3 things I want the controller to do right now: 1-pt. calibration, toggle black hot/white hot, and toggle wide/narrow, so I'm just using 3 pushbuttons for input.The program itself is pretty simple. In the setup() function I set the mode of three pins to inputs, and also initialize the serial connection with the right baud rate and data settings. Then in the loop() I just check to see if a button is pressed, and if so, use Serial.write() to send the appropriate command. I haven't done it yet, but this camera sends an ACK/NAK depending on whether the command was accepted, so I should receive that before allowing further commands instead of just ignoring them.

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 04:32:45 am
content: Everything worked, so here's the code.Stuff to know:1. Pins 0 and 1 are the hardware serial pins. You will most likely need a RS232 level shifter since the Arduino uses TTL voltages instead of RS232 voltages. Don't connect your serial device to the Arduino if you're not sure because it may damage the Arduino. You can check the voltage between the Ground and TX pins to see what the device is using.2. This may not affect all setups, but I couldn't load programs onto the Arduino if anything was connected to the HW serial pins, so I had to disconnect the level shifter when I wanted to load an updated program.3. Right now the program just blocks using delay(500) after a button input is received, if you want to something while debouncing the input switches like receive data you'll need to change that.Code://Defines#define PIN_NUC 4#define PIN_TOGGLE_BW 3#define PIN_TOGGLE_WN 2//Globalsunsigned char black_hot = 0;unsigned char narrow = 0;int opt = 0;byte nuc_cmd[] = {0x00};byte blackhot_cmd[] = {0x00};byte whitehot_cmd[] = {0x00};byte wide_cmd[] = {0x00};byte narrow_cmd[] = {0x00};void setup(){pinMode(PIN_NUC, INPUT_PULLUP);pinMode(PIN_TOGGLE_BW, INPUT_PULLUP);pinMode(PIN_TOGGLE_WN, INPUT_PULLUP);Serial.begin(19200,SERIAL_8N1);}void loop(){//Check response here later//Read inputif (digitalRead(PIN_NUC) == LOW) {opt = PIN_NUC;} else if (digitalRead(PIN_TOGGLE_BW) == LOW) {opt = PIN_TOGGLE_BW;} else if (digitalRead(PIN_TOGGLE_WN) == LOW) {opt = PIN_TOGGLE_WN;} else {opt = 0;}//Send the appropriate commandswitch (opt) {case PIN_NUC:Serial.write(nuc_cmd, sizeof(nuc_cmd));break;case PIN_TOGGLE_BW:if (black_hot) {Serial.write(whitehot_cmd, sizeof(whitehot_cmd));} else {Serial.write(blackhot_cmd, sizeof(blackhot_cmd));}black_hot = 1 - black_hot;break;case PIN_TOGGLE_WN:if (narrow) {Serial.write(wide_cmd, sizeof(wide_cmd));} else {Serial.write(narrow_cmd, sizeof(narrow_cmd));}narrow = 1 - narrow;break;default:break;}if (opt) {delay(500);opt = 0;}}

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 03:31:16 pm
content: @paradigmic,Many thanks. This is exactly what I needed.I would not have included the switch debounce so that may have caused me some issues. I will now modify the sketch to control a FLIR PM 695 camera and maybe some others with RS232 control ports.Thanks for the comment in the level shifter. I have ordered some suitable RS232 to 3V3 and RS232 to 5V converter boards so have that requirement covered.Fraser

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2016, 07:22:30 am
content: @Fraser,I hope it helps. Let me know how it goes and if you run into any issues. I'm curious how other cameras handle their communication.In other news, I finished everything I needed to make the camera mobile. In board2.jpg you can see the battery pack, LCD, and Arduino with buttons and serial level shifter. In finished2.jpg the board is mounted on the same piece of metal the camera is so it can be used as one piece. I definitely have a lot more understanding of the challenges of making a camera in a usable form factor. As it is my camera isn't super convenient to use, but compared to having a pile of separate components it's better at least.

author: homestea
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2016, 02:11:45 pm
content: Do you have a voltage regulator on there somewhere bringing the battery pack voltage down to the levels needed by the Arduino? I'm working on a similar setup but packaging it all inside a project box and also using an Arduino 101 with Bluetooth 4.0 (BLE) so that I have physical buttons but also use the BLYNK app to make a wireless control from my iPhone. I bought a fairly cheap $80 7" Eachine (LCD5802S) monitor with built in battery and capability for 5.8ghz wireless video if I want to view it remotely.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2016, 02:52:36 pm
content: @Paradigmic,Nice work.I am intending to build a compact remote control box that will have a simple 12 button keypad on the top and an Arduino Nano Pro within.The command set of my FLIR PM series cameras is thankfully documented in the user manual for the scientific SC3000 camera. The commands are a simple string of ASCII characters that may be sent from a RS232 terminal. The original FLIR Remote control is a bit of a beast. I own three and they are somewhat over-engineered, and rare as hens teeth. A FLIR PM series remote can easily cost as much as the host camera on the present secondary market ! Inside the remote control I found a complete (IIRC) MC68000 single board computer that generates the RS232 command strings. It is basically a computer running a RS232 terminal program with only 8 macro keys as an input. This is circa 1997 technology.The Arduino or a PIC can do the same task in a much smaller and simpler format. I will replicate the 12 button format and each button will prompt the Arduino to send the fixed command string. I will have to uses a MAXIM UART to RS232 converter but that is all the additional communications related hardware that I will need to talk to the cameras 'true' RS232 level communcations port.I attach an example of the command strings used by the FLIR PM series cameras and a picture of one of the FLIR remote handsets that I have.Thankfully FLIR made it very simple to replicate the cameras control buttons using a single string command that just needs the appropriate variable for each button replication. More advanced commands are also provided for full command driven control of the camera rather than replicating the buttons for menu access and control. I love these PM series cameras and it was good of FLIR to publish the command set for their full control via RS232.I think I can build a clone of the FLIR remote the same size as the original, if not smaller using the Arduino Nano Pro. I bought my Nano's from China for only a couple of pounds.... so much versatility, yet so cheapFraser

author: paradigmic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2016, 06:25:27 pm
content: @homesteaThe Arduino I have is a Sparkfun Redboard that has an input voltage range of 7-15V, so it can handle the whole range from charged to discharged (12.6-9.6V) of the battery pack without a voltage regulator. That monitor looks pretty cool, I didn't really think about how to use the camera remotely but that should work pretty well.@FraserSounds like you have a good plan for your controller. It's definitely worth trying out if it's so much cheaper than an original, and you can add more features when you want. The documentation seems clear as well which should make it a lot easier to work on.Good luck to both of you on your projects.