What tablet to buy to run linux on? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cdwijs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 07:36:03 pm
content: Hi All,I would like to buy a tablet that can run linux. Therefore the bootloader has to be unlocked, and all the drivers need to be available.Does such a tablet exist?Kind regards,Cedric

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 08:34:18 pm
content: Dell Venue 7130/7140 can boot off anything you stick in it.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 08:46:30 pm
content: Quoteandroid is linux, right?

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 09:09:49 pm
content: Lenovo X220 tablet(Proper computer)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 11:13:26 pm
content: Could you just run in from a virtual machine? I have had pretty good luck running it on my desktop.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 02:56:55 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 23, 2016, 08:34:18 pm+1 I've got one they are great. I even tried to run Mac OS on it. Too many custom things so it didn't work but linux works fine. I also booted android on it.

author: cdwijs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 09:35:29 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 23, 2016, 08:46:30 pmHi Danny,You are correct that android runs on top of a linux kernel. But most tablets that run android use user-space drivers for their hardware. This works fine, but it has 2 problems: 1) The driver only works with the exact kernel version the tablet was delivered with, and 2) The user-space driver is usually closed source, so nobody but the manufacturer can fix bugs.Second problem is getting the tablet to actually boot into something linux, that requires writing a new kernel somewhere, and that requires rooting the tablet. Not every tablet can be rooted.Kind regards,Cedric

author: cdwijs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 09:39:16 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 23, 2016, 08:34:18 pmThank you. It looks like a nice computer in a tablet form. I have excluded windows8 tablets because I expected them all to have secureboot, and therefore can only run the system that was delivered. It's nice to know this is not the case.Kind regards,Cedric

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 07:47:01 am
content: I've installed Windows 7 on a Venue 7140 but was never able to get the touch display to work. Everything else seemed to work though. The problem is many of these tablets use I2C, SDIO, or GPIO instead of USB for the wifi, digitizer or buttons. The drivers are made for Windows 8 and higher only, even when using a driver extraction utility, they don't work on windows 7.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 07:59:00 am
content: Quote from: cdwijs on January 24, 2016, 09:39:16 amI haven't seen one (x86 at least) where you can't at least turn secureboot off if not add your own certificates. And to be honest and fair MS even signs the needed parts of the bootloader for many a Linux distro so you don't even have to bother doing that.EDIT: Secureboot is not a bad thing and the arm of MS that handles the certificates and signing isn't one of the evil sections. But in all honesty MS have been much better "team players" for a long time.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 08:01:47 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 25, 2016, 07:59:00 amThe Dell Venues even allow you to disable UEFI completely and boot up in legacy mode.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 08:19:59 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 25, 2016, 08:01:47 amAre there any yet where you can't? They'd only be pissing an awful lot of people off by stopping them using legacy OSs and/or rescue tools.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 08:28:09 am
content: It runs on the first generation Nexus 7,https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation. I don't know if you can install it on the second generation tablet though.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:19:33 am
content: Secure Boot is not necessarily a bad thing. Most motherboards / UEFI implementations also allow you to load your own SecureBoot keys or disable secureboot altogether.With that said, I think most popular linux distributions (ie. Ubuntu or Fedora) come with bootloaders that are signed with Microsoft's secureboot key, so they boot properly without you having to modify secureboot settings. This also means that you can run linux and keep the security features of SecureBoot intact.Most of these rely on Fedora's Shim (https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/UEFI_Secure_Boot_Guide/sect-UEFI_Secure_Boot_Guide-Implementation_of_UEFI_Secure_Boot-Shim.html) which verifies the GRUB bootloader and the kernel has not been tampered with before booting.Alternatively with more effort you should be able to replace microsoft's secureboot keys in your UEFI with your own keys using the secureboot key manager built into most UEFIs.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:13:42 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 25, 2016, 08:19:59 amAre there any legacy OSes that you'd need? Vista and XP aren't supported by anyone pretty much.Windows 7 and higher all support UEFI. But as I mentioned before, there's no drivers for all of these odd busses, so you're essentially locked out of those OSes anyway.My Winbook tablet does not support booting in non-uefi mode.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 12:03:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 25, 2016, 08:19:59 amDell offers Linux as an OS on many of their higher end systems so it seems to me Dell keeps Linux users in mind when developing their BIOS.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 01:55:06 pm
content: Shame they're bloody unreliable running Linux unfortunately. We have a couple in the office and we had to install windows on them and virtualbox containing the Linux VM.So far, the best machines we've had that run Linux are Lenovo X201, X220, X230.

author: cdwijs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 06:53:56 am
content: Hi All,Thanks for your input. I have seen some useful tablets, but they seem a bit on the expensive side. I am looking for a prize range of 300-500 euros. Is for instance the nexus 10 capable of running linux?Kind regards,Cedric

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:22:19 pm
content: Quote from: cdwijs on January 27, 2016, 06:53:56 amYeah it can, but in that price range there are plenty of detachable/convertible laptops ranging from Atoms to i3s* and equivalent AMDs you might want to consider. You'll have a wider choice of distros, other OSs, and apps available and even be even to load Android onto one if you want**.*Through what I've seen, shopping around you could probably do better.**And the last time I checked the ARM translator is built in as standard now.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 04:13:56 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 25, 2016, 08:01:47 amThat's a requirement. For Windows 7/8, computer manufacturers HAD to provide a BIOS option to disable secure boot, it was a requirement. Microsoft has dropped this requirement for Windows 10 AFAIK, but I doubt many manufacturers will remove the option.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 04:17:18 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 26, 2016, 08:13:42 amThat's a very closed-minded view...not every OS you might want to boot is used in a permanent fashion. There are Linux recovery OSs, Windows recovery OSs, disk partitioning utilities, etc. One of the kickers is that once you ditch Windows, you usually need to use a bootable USB/CD to re-flash the BIOS, which 99% of the time requires booting in legacy mode. If the BIOS didn't allow legacy boot, then as soon as you got rid of Windows you'd be locked into the BIOS version you're currently running.And I'll agree with some of the posters above - in my experience, Lenovo devices are by far the most compatible and stable with Linux. Dell is very hit or miss, and even though they do offer some of their models with Linux pre-installed, they often have to implement so many custom patches to the kernel to keep the hardware from crashing that you're locked into the exact distro and the exact version the machine comes with. Lenovo, while they don't ship with Linux pre-installed, usually goes out of their way to use hardware that has almost universal OS support, so everything "just works" out of the box regardless of what you choose to install.Just read this:https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell-xps-13-9343-2015-model/vs this:https://major.io/2015/03/30/review-lenovo-x1-carbon-3rd-generation-and-linux/Twoverysimilar machines, similar size, weight, and function, same exact processor, released at the same time, yet DRASTICALLY different behavior in Linux. All this, and the XPS 13even ships with Linux, and the support is STILL terrible.

author: cdwijs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 05:26:53 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on January 27, 2016, 04:17:18 pmI have read the 2 reviews. It's a world of difference indeed. Thanks for pointing that out. Kind regards,Cedric

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 09:04:47 am
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on January 27, 2016, 04:17:18 pmThe problem is there are no drivers for the devices in it for the legacy OSes. These tablets have USB 3.0 which Intel as far as I remember does not make XP or Vista drivers for it. So you have this Unknown PCI device in device manager.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 02:06:58 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 28, 2016, 09:04:47 amSo...did you just not readanythingI posted? I figured you would have, since you quoted it, but apparently not.There is a world outside of Microsoft...there are MANY active and supported OSs and tools with full driver support that require legacy boot. I mentioned FOUR categories of tools that fit the billin the post that you quoted, I never mentioned, and was never referring to XP or Vista.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 01:27:38 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on January 25, 2016, 08:01:47 amI once tried to install os x on a dell venue. It didn't go to well.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 01:51:53 am
content: Yeah, Windows 7 doesn't support USB3 by default so it doesn't see the keyboard or dock on the Venue.