Feeder: How you can flip a part? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2020, 07:10:40 pm
content: Wondering how you can a flip a part apart...Is there somebody has experienced this type of "feeder"?Does this exist?It looks like can work for any type of SMD componenthttps://youtu.be/hoJhPA4QdCg?t=33, but a vibration one just for capacitors?https://youtu.be/EFP0RqktaR4?t=41

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 12:47:57 am
content: Last time I was after something similar (~2018) I was told there is no "off the shelf" solution, and that it would be a custom partAlso the goal of this project was to pick up a 1.5x1.5x1mm piece of silicon (diced wafer), rotate it in the y-axis by 90deg, and place it on a PCB. I think in the end the customer ended up getting an IC manufacturer to place the correctly rotated part in tape & reel

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 09:04:13 am
content: There's a reason the flipper exists for the manual pick and place - loose parts and Germans over-complicating things. It's an issue that should not apply to anything done in volume as all the parts should be in their tape/trays the right way around. What do you need to flip and why? Customized feeders are a thing but they are typically for applications that are not that uncommon like cutting and shaping a through hole LED from a bandolier, so they already have a template and just need to customize it for the specific device.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 02:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: ANTALIFE on May 22, 2020, 12:47:57 amWhat stop you do to a custom solution - $, time, experience...?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 02:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: SMTech on May 22, 2020, 09:04:13 amI'm interested to flip some loose parts.Let's say for simplicity, I want to flip a loose resistor - there is a right side and wrong side, and I need make sure these always laid down on a right side to able pick up and place correctly later. For small parts as 0201 a vibration (as mentioned above) might works, but for the bigger ones - very unlikely or something I'm not aware.Maybe I am overcomplicating this and put all-eggs in one basket, and should consider to place these into a tray at the first place. But still have an issue, how to place a loose resistor on that tray

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 05:24:22 pm
content: Leave them in the tape, make a holder for that, the simplest solutions are the best. Or copy Fritsch, its not exactly a hi-tec solution. I've never really understood why so many manual pick machines have a carousel for loose parts.The ASM one isn't attempting to flip them, you just fill the hopper with bulk caps which don't have a right way up and the vibration spreads them out so the camera can isolate them for picking when you're placing 10s of thousands an hour you don't want to be changing reels every few minutes.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 11:21:55 pm
content: QuoteUsing the parts right out of the tape works great... if/when you can tape the cut tape down with doublestick (not always practical, because of holes in the back of the tape in some cases!) or make a proper feeder for that specific part in that specific package and tape.I made a device for handling loose generic parts. It's super simple but super useful for my own needs. It's just a circular dish that spins on a ball bearing. Dump the parts in the dish, then you lock your vision in on the first part that's right-side up, and spin the dish to where you can get your pickup tool on it in the right orientation. After you get used to it, it's very fast. There are ridges on the bottom, so when there aren't enough parts right-side-up anymore, you just give it a shake.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 08:11:16 pm
content: Some random hints for quick hand SMD assembly from "MikesElectricStuff"

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 01:50:01 am
content: Just saw the vid below, which mostly disposes with reels and tape, although the "bulk" buckets are also in some wide tape.It vibrates the glass plate violently enough to flip enough components.

author: Harjit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 05:39:40 am
content: Take a look at this thread:https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!msg/openpnp/Zc21iWBi1DA/U3Xf6sTDBAAJThis one in particular:http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipv6proxy.net%2Fgo.php%3Fu%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.formann.de%252F2020%252F06%252Fpick-place-4-n-es-wird%252F%26b%3D1%23more-1025&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGt_WrDeFXawmd-f5IsAKWex4DtkA

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 10:06:35 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on June 19, 2020, 01:50:01 amMentioned in an original postQuote from: Doctorandus_P on June 19, 2020, 01:50:01 amI would say more like a game of chance rather than a predictable result, especially larger than 0201AsSMTechexplained above,Quote

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 10:09:26 am
content: Quote from: Harjit on June 19, 2020, 05:39:40 amThat's interesting "hacking", thanksOh, 200 CPH far from a great, but ways to improve...

author: doppelgrau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 04:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on June 19, 2020, 10:09:26 amDesigned for prototypes, reduce setup time, but no real option for production runs. (But I earn my money otherwise so no production runs needed.)

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 06:29:02 pm
content: Quote from: doppelgrau on June 22, 2020, 04:49:28 pmThat's obvious, but I'm wonder where is breaking point compare to do it's fully manually with just with a tweezer?

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 06:50:20 pm
content: If you have a 3D printer, you can setup a prototype SMD assembly station for little money.I have designed a few cut tape dispensers, and then just a cheap vacuum pump and I use a pneumatic foot valve (non-electric) to control the vacuum.Link to my designs:https://www.thingiverse.com/rat_patrol/designsMy prototype SMD assembly station. Not pictured is the vacuum pickup tool setup.

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 07:31:43 pm
content: OMG i need to make this for manual pcb-a haha

author: doppelgrau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2020, 09:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on June 22, 2020, 06:29:02 pmImmediately/NeverImmediately: The PnP machine is a fun project, so every pcb where I do not need my tweezers is a win (do not like that)Never: With the (very) low volume as a hobbyist and the time it took to get this far (programming the feeder, designing the 3d printed parts, ...) and the cost will probably never reach "break even".

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2020, 04:22:54 pm
content: Quote from: doppelgrau on June 22, 2020, 09:59:36 pmWell, I mean, is there any time saving - as example, setup time and machine run vs manual?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2020, 04:27:09 pm
content: Quote from: Rat_Patrol on June 22, 2020, 06:50:20 pmWow, you took an extra mile to make your life easy.What is a black disk on a picture? Can you rotate it?

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2020, 04:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on June 23, 2020, 04:27:09 pmThe black disc is a "lazy Susan" AKA a turntable. Just lets me spin the PCB around so I don't have to spin the component around so much.I've probably placed 10,000 components manually with that setup. It works well, for what it is.ETA: Actually, I KNOW I've placed well over 10k components. Crazy how fast I burn through 1000 component reels.

author: doppelgrau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2020, 05:02:24 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on June 23, 2020, 04:22:54 pmSetup time is quite low for most PCBs (have nearly 250 "heaps" permanently on the table, so most passives are always loaded and plan to keep other common parts on fixed "slots" (strip feeder/BlindsFeeder)). But I use the same part names in kicad as in OpenPnP, so I can just import the .pos file, set the PCB zero point, no need to assign all parts manually etc.PnP itself would guess about 1/2 of the time I needed. (Edit: never optimized my hand-PnP lite @Rat_Patrol)So for a single PCB no time saved until it's ready, but during pnp I can do other thing (e.g. prepare oven or if more than one PCB, take care of solderpaste printing ...).

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2020, 05:31:24 pm
content: Are you saying that you do PCB one-by-one basis regardless if, let's say, you want do to 5 altogether (aka different designs) today?

author: doppelgrau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2020, 06:23:26 pm
content: 5 different designs, never happened yet, low volume hobbyistBut if I happen to have different designs, either do it one after the other or order a pannel and let openpnp place the different designs at the same time.