Ben Hecks Oscilloscope Throwdown - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 05:47:40 am
content: I like Ben, but I can't help but miss the point of this scope shootout.They compare:Keysight 1000XRohde & Schwarz RTB2004Keysight MSOX3054TTektronix 2GHz MSO58What use is this comparison really?And having such high end scopes in a video where you have to explain at the start of the video what and oscilloscope is and what it does. I just don't get it.And no prices in the video. The Tek 5 series is $30kIf I attempted a comparison like this I'd be hounded out of the industry. I struggle accept that I could fairly compare the $400 4CH Rigol to the $800 2CH Keysight.The big thumbnail is "Which Scope Is Right For You". The answer is clearly, nothing above the 1000X for his intended market.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 05:52:23 am
content: I actually have never understood Ben Heck videos. They must appeal to someone or he wouldn't exist. I saw this video in my suggested videos but just ignored it. I could see from the models mentioned is was just more pointless drivel.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 06:05:42 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 15, 2017, 05:52:23 amHe has great appeal to the hacker/maker/modder crowd. But I can't see how this video fits in at all to any audience let alone his core audience.I suspect he deliberately left out the prices because he likely couldn't say some of them with a straight face knowing who his videos target.

author: Dan Moos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 06:34:38 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 15, 2017, 05:47:40 amThis was a perplexing video. I saw the scopes on the table, and then scratched my head as he have a beginner level talk.Virtually no use for this video. Best I can guess is that the manufacturers had given him the scopes to review, and he just made a video with what they gave him, regardless of how like sense it made.Total head scratcher! Would love to hear his take on it.Sent from my E6830 using Tapatalk

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 06:39:37 am
content: He is advertiser friendly, so he gets to review stuff, he is not qualified to review. But hey, he is not going to stress negative sides.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 08:06:03 am
content: A progression using the first three scopes (1102G, RTB2004, and MSOX3054T) would be of interest and not really anything I've seen covered as reviews primary focus on comparison between the same class of scope. or a specific feature/use case.The Ben Heck presentation was chaotic and really served no purpose other than to say 'look at what I got'.The price of the 30K Tek is immaterial since the 1102G (his starting point) was already above his target audiences price point.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 08:10:18 am
content: Next episode (likely not), how to make your own oscilloscope. Unfortunately that doesn't sound very beginner friendly to me as a beginner.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 08:38:47 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 15, 2017, 06:05:42 amMarketing crowd*. FTFYI personally never found his videos appealing or interesting (though I'm sure I'm not very representative of the above crowds). He does seem to have secured stable promotions, so the marketing option seems quite reasonable, and explains the bizarre choices of subject matter from time to time -- choices that could only make sense to a marketing team.TL;DR it's because you're not a shill, DaveTim

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 09:50:21 am
content: Not directly related to video discussed... but I actually like when lets say n "conforming" things are compared and just for kicks something outrageous is thrown in as +1. Suppose hot hatches are compared and some older gen Porsche arrives. Something nottotallyout of reach for target audience. Just to widen field of view so to speak.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 09:53:32 am
content: I really got the feeling from the video that he was maybe feeling a little pressured to do the video.I was thinking that he had been sent these during the various marketing bitzes, and then Tek came along with their latest Series 5 and that tipped the weight into a video to show them all.But given that they are all linked to and sold by Element 14, this is most likely driven entirely by Element 14 marketing. After all, Ben's entire showispaid for and driven by Element 14.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 10:51:08 am
content: His videos are interesting when it comes to how to problem solve. With his glue gun he spent so much time on it with questionable use and caused some drama here: mains in breadboard thread.But I don't agree it's exclusively for beginners. He has equipment no beginner will have, which makes most of his projects beginner unfriendly. Maybe for a university student or a collaborative effort; perhaps makerspace.Great Scott does the beginner projects and explanation far better, in a quarter of the time, mostly with tools a beginner could expect to have.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 11:28:49 am
content: Problem with YouTube “high view” posters is that they have to get a new videos all the time.Must not be easy to have the inspiration to post frequently high quality and interesting videos.Result is that quality get down ….

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 11:34:45 am
content: I agree that having to post every week or two weeks or more must have an effect for all YouTubers, until it becomes "the norm".Still, long projects can be posted, there have been "part 1" "part 2" "part 3" videos from various people (and Ben too). I'm not sure which videos do better. Longer projects split in parts, vs quick projects.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 11:56:14 am
content: I never undestood what people find so great about Ben Hecks videos. They are not even funny.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 05:50:33 pm
content: For the 1000x and maybe a entry level RTB it makes sense as a cheesy commercial. But for the more expensive scopes it's pointless...Makes me wonder to whom do they think they are selling this to. If this is their target audience maybe these are not the scopes for me...

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 10:39:46 pm
content: There was precisely bugger all he “tested” in that video that couldn’t be done on that first Keysight dsox1000 series scope with the wavegen and decode options.When I heard him complaining about the waveform shapes, I cringed, he really does need to learn how to probe properly. I’ve cringed before when he tried to decode LVDS LCD displays in another video.Frankly, a 20MHz shitscope could achieve what he was doing.How many people does it take to probe a board? Pulease, he had to bring his sound man in on top of his extra.Sorry, I’m just frustrated that that’s half an hour of my life I’m never going to get back.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 11:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: MrW0lf on October 15, 2017, 09:50:21 amI agree. It's much like Top Gear that way.@Howardlong: you should learn how to watch Youtube videos in less than 10 seconds.There is a bar at the bottom of the video which shows a thumbnail and skips to a different part of a video when you click on it. Works great for me! - ducks and runs -

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 11:22:20 pm
content: To me the video was full of canned examples and looked very incomplete and rushed. He really needed to spend a few hours on this video.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 03:48:19 am
content: As Keysight we only got a brief heads up that it was happening, and there were no requests for gear. Felix did request the MSO-X 3054T a while back for his bench (and we obliged), but I suspect they didn't go out and request the Tek scopes for the video, they simply had them on hand or as demo units from their e14 sponsors. Trying to get out scripted content of that length every week or two would be a lot of work, so I imagine some videos get more love than others...

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 05:19:37 am
content: Oh nice to see people from Keysight here too.Don't think any of the scope manufacturers should be bothered by the video. It is indeed a pointless video of Ben messing about with scopes randomly, but its nothing bad really. Heck the marketing team behind that Tek scope probably loves this video if the "marketing campaign" on that scope so far is anything to go by. This was very cheap if not free marketing for them.I do occasionally watch a few videos from him and the show is not that bad. I could certainly see it appeal both to the maker crowd and has a decent amount of electronics in it. Just that the show is mostly used for getting element14 advertising out there.EDIT:Actually its good that the manufacturers are not involved with videos like this. In the video game industry things have gotten so far that reviewers are given out review copies a great deal of time before release, but only after they sign a contract that basically says they are not allowed to say anything bad about there game. Or even worse, when they knew the game is not going to be received that well they might make them sign a NDA that they can't release the review until a week after the game is released so that potential buyers are not turned away on launch day.

author: wolfy007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 05:33:09 am
content: Have to agree, a bizare comparison video.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 09:29:13 am
content: Quote from: Berni on October 16, 2017, 05:19:37 amIt has to be remembered that TBHS basically wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Element 14 funding it. They paid for it and directed it from the get-go.The amount of money they used to pay* to have every video edited was more than my entire 5 year operating budget at that point(* I believe Ben/staff now edit them, but it used to be an expensive production company doing it)QuoteThankfully there are no such deals in the electronics blogging community that I am aware of. The rule is the manufacturers send their gear and take their chances.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 09:31:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 16, 2017, 09:29:13 amThat only works once. And after your honest review, nobody takes any chances on you anymore.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 10:13:43 am
content: The mdo4000 review was honest and not that negative imho... Didn't leave too much of a bad impression on me. Wouldn't bother with a review that had absolutely nothing bad to say about a scope. Also even if Dave says he personally doesn't like something that doesn't mean the rest of us won't or that we don't have specific requirements from the scope that he doesn't. As long as the feature gets accurately shown it's fine by me. Hope some of those marketing people realize thisFor starters at least send scopes to people that know how to use themToo much cringe.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 10:22:10 am
content: Yeah like Tek on the MDO scopeThey thought they are getting a free 1 hour advertisement for there scope and instead got a honest review. And the review didn't make it look bad at all, Okay so it has a wonky slow UI but everything else about it was nice. Now they did a massive improvement of the UI on the new series of scopes, so go on show us that you listened to the customer and fixed it.Tho to be fair the price of that new 8 channel scope is a bit steep when you look at what the competition is offering in that range.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 10:25:33 am
content: I don't know what kind of working relationship the other man in the video has with Ben Heck, but on multiple occasions I felt like Ben was being an asshole to him.Compared to how, say, Dave treats Dave #2...To me it reflects poorly on Ben Heck.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 10:42:20 am
content: I liked Sharias video on the Tek MSO-58. It was only 20 minutes but told me so much more. He should do a follow-up video

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 10:50:46 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on October 16, 2017, 10:42:20 amI am pretty sure it's on loan to him, and he still had it in his lab as of his recent Lock-In Amplifier video... so I suspect we will see something else from him with it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 01:06:05 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 16, 2017, 09:31:32 amNo skin off my nose, their loss. I have a lot of eyeballs and ears they literally can't buy anywhere else. Not that I'd want to review a 5 series scope anyway, I don't see the point in reviewing such a high end bit of kit. Maybe an overview to see what they have one, but that's it.It's like all those big advertisers pulling out of Youtube because of the stupid PewDiePie thing, idiots, who if they have any commercial sense will soon be back.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 01:07:52 pm
content: Quote from: technogeeky on October 16, 2017, 10:25:33 amI don't even know why the other guy was there. It was awkward and he didn't really contribute anything.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 01:45:53 pm
content: I don't get what people take from these videos? They're like a scenic train journey in the dark.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 04:59:11 pm
content: This was the first video I have ever watched of his. I don't think I am the target audience.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 05:04:32 pm
content: I too watched just one Ben's video some time back and it was enough. Not my cap of tea either.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 06:24:42 pm
content: Nah, watched a couple of Ben Heck videos, not my thing at all, they're for the 'let's stick some flashy lights on it and call it hacked' brigade.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 06:34:54 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on October 16, 2017, 01:45:53 pmYep. The information content was zero and it wasn't even entertaining. I fast forwarded through a lot of it.I don't understand why that other guy was in the video. I don't think I'd watch another based on that sample.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 10:15:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 16, 2017, 06:34:54 pmThat pretty much sums it up. There is so little depth. The way he comes over, I am often left to wonder how much he really does himself, and how much is someone else’s work, some of the few FPGA examples for example. That in itself is not a problem, but even the shallowest of detail is so glossed over that the remaining value is negligible.