Zeta Energy: A Battery Breakthrough? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 06:19:10 pm
content: I'll have to watch the video later when I have more time, but I did a bit of quick Googling and this seems rather interesting.It appears they are getting several million $ in federal grants for this. It would be nice if technology like this is something America can take advantage of, instead of spending tax dollars to engineer the tech, only to let other countries like China bring it to manufacturing fruition and becoming leaders in the field, like what happened with solar.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 08:17:33 pm
content: Lithium sulfur seems to be promising as far as I've read about it, so I'd say it's worth investing in that. Any serious and non-scammy effort to come up with something better than the current Li-Ion (with all associated issues) is welcome.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 11:55:34 pm
content: It looks interesting but for all battery cells there will be key questions. Often when you start digging you find out that a miracle cell technology has a critical limitation that these companies don't let on.) Can they build it at scale at a good price? They mention sulfur from existing refinery processes - fossil fuel production? What about when fossil fuel production is down 50%? Are there other sustainable sources? Conventional Li-Ion NMC is now around $100/kWh at the cell level.) Does it have decent cycle life? Conventional Li-Ion is now well beyond 2000 cycles per cell if well treated, 1000 cycles in average condition. Enough for a car with 250 mile range.) Can it charge quickly? 3C+ charge rates are commonplace, at least for some parts of the charge cycle. At least 1.5-2C sustained over the 10-80% range seems to be typical.) Does it perform well at all temperatures? It needs to give decent range at -10C and +40C ambient temperatures and not deteriorate excessively at either end.) Weight and volume are also important, though their document seemed to indicate these figures were comparable to conventional Li-Ion.At present Li-Ion NMC seems to meet most of these requirements, with a few provisos.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 01:30:29 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on March 10, 2023, 11:55:34 pmSulfur production is not really an issue."In 2022, sulfur production in the U.S. reached 8.6 million metric tons. From those, roughly 93 percent were recovered elemental sulfur.""Global lithium production surpassed 100,000 tonnes for the first time in 2021"

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 06:53:03 pm
content: And FYI sulfur is a bit of a dicey resource. I am sure that if expansion is conducted it can be mined safely, but I watched this a while back, some sulfur mining is uh.. not much better then conflict minerals. With a crack down on oil and gas production because of green tech, I am not sure how viable the 'modern' methods of sulfur refining are (that is, recovery from gas and oil operations).This is the modern method of sulfur gathering that occurs as a O&G production biproduct (kinda)and this is traditional sulfur mining (eww)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 08:08:41 pm
content: I admit I haven't looked at that aspect of using sulfur yet. Doesn't look much prettier than mining cobalt.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 08:31:50 pm
content: Well we would need to know how much sulfur deposits suitable for sulfur only recovery there are, how much of it is produced that way, and how much is produced as a biproduct of oil drilling operations.It might be one of those things that 'we have all this shit for drilling oil here and we found a sulfur node we can harvest', that might become very uneconomical once you don't have the oil.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 08:51:46 pm
content: If/when we stop extracting oil, a crapton of stuff will get very uneconomical. The fun we're currently witnessing is just going to get even more fun! Just saying.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 08:54:15 pm
content: well I think its achievable, its just awareness for long term investors and people that want a sustainable solution to energy problems. Like realistic future price.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2023, 10:17:12 am
content: I take it you guys haven't seen the mound(s) of sulfur building up in the Fort McMurray Alberta tar sands operation. They can't even give that shit away. Tar sands bitumen is also rich in vanadium, which I think they can now profitably market.https://www.businessinsider.com/there-are-mountains-of-sulfur-growing-in-the-oil-sands-just-waiting-for-demand-to-increase-2012-4?op=1

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2023, 10:42:04 am
content: well thats a offshoot of O&G operation. I am thinking of the deep future though, for this to be a problem we would really need to cut down oil use. As oil use dwindles then they would pick mining operations that have multiple products.Like, 40 years in the future. Will we have big sulfur like big oil? Peak sulfur?