Elon Musk is buring money - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jacksat
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 11:01:59 am
content: I love the gif and the reallife money spent counter that add up while you reading it.Now how much of that article is true that i don't know .You can read this for your self here .https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-burns-cash/

author: GerryBags
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 12:38:58 pm
content: I'm not surprised Bloomberg hasn't got a clue how Musk works. All business-related media tends to be reactionary and, historically, they have never recognized real innovation until it's no longer innovative. It's just not how they're set up.My two cents:$0.01 A: It would take a brave person to lay down serious money betting against Elon Musk, given his track record.$0.01 B: On the other hand, a huge gamble is a huge gamble and you can't buck the odds forever. One day, you feel, his luck must run out. Of course, that assumes that luck is the only reason for his success. It obviously plays a part but he is undoubtedly a very smart dude.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 01:16:59 pm
content: Earnings report due today right? Should be interesting.He has a good line of bs. At some point the banks/investors will smell bs or get results they are looking for. Guessing if he doesn't get results soon, the funding evaporates quickly.Hemorrhaging money, scheduled to launch the semi and another car next year, hyperpoop, missing targets for the model 3.... Short opportunity in my book

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 01:40:01 pm
content: Quote from: orion242 on May 02, 2018, 01:16:59 pmMissing production target for less than a year? Then think about production delay of F35 or Dreamliner. Seriously, it's not a smartphone where 1 year delay makes product completely obsolete.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 01:56:36 pm
content: Where they burning a proportionally equal amount of cash and loaded with similar debt in the process?One thing to be net positive and late. Another to be loaded with debt and looking for more money to make deadlines from months back all the while announcing more products in the near term.

author: jacksat
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 06:11:35 pm
content: Last month (April) they had to shut down production 2 times for a couple of days.They can't even produce have of the model 3 .(they should produce 5000 a week by June)Then there are the dodgy parts .https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/14/tesla-manufacturing-high-volume-of-flawed-parts-employees.htmlArround 70000 costumers allready have cancelled their order off the model 3.All this can't be healty for a company ,even Tesla.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 06:45:59 pm
content: On the other hand, their current situation is one they've been in before, just more so. Prior to the launch of the Model S and then Model X they were burning tons of cash because, duh, putting a high tech car into production requires a ton of capex. Putting a mass market car into production requires commensurately MORE capex, so of course their burn rate is higher--but then so is the potential revenue once production gets into its groove. At this point, extrapolating from quarterly numbers is not going to give a reliable forecast, as once they get over the hill on Model 3 production the picture will shift dramatically, as Ars explains:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/elon-musk-says-dont-worry-about-teslas-burn-rate-he-might-be-right/

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:40:37 pm
content: It's a heavily shorted stock, so it's in the interests of those that have shorted TSLA to talk it down.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:54:46 pm
content: How does the picture change dramatically when they are going to launch the semi and another car? These two will not require more capex??Boggles the mind how an 8yr old company that's been at a net negative almost every quarter since inception can be worth almost as much as GM. Smell a bubble.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:16:48 pm
content: No, Elon Musk is NOT just buring money.If we want to be correct, we should say thatElon Musk is burning the US people's tax money.So, do not worry about him.Why's that?Because speaking of Elon Musk we are actually talking about theDEEPMIC, meaning the technological detour of the so-calledNew World Orderas it has exactly been pronounced by various 'leaders' of the 'civilised world' throughout the various 20th Century bloodsheds...Even Elon Musk himself did not hide that, if DARPA had not had him financed with the amount of USD 5mn as soon as he stepped foot in the US he would have quitted long time ago. After all, SpaceX is officially funded by DARPA...The point is that, even they know how dangerous the technology they are developing is, they started pushing various other private corporations towards astral settlement --see: Jeff Bezos, Boeing, Virgin galactic, Mars One, etc. When, for example, the Chinese are preparing their version of the CERN (being 6-fold more powerful than the European one and 30-fold more powerful than the American one), is there any possibility that those who are developing it are not afraid of those dangers?Both Musk and Hawking have warned the public by saying, "Watch out for the artificial intelligence... watch out for the subatomic experiments... danger, danger, danger..."Seeing, for example, Musk, who is considered to be a gifted engineer, inExobiologyhe gets a stately proud F...After all, two areas with wormholes are already known in our neighborhood: one is outside Saturn and the other one is between Venus and Mercury; and they will make mistakes; huge mistakes... Irrespectively of whether they themselves develop artificial intelligence (e.g. Musk), even if Google and Facebook were the actual pioneers in this department,So, try not to be getting so excited with the technologies that will eventually destroy mankind...</RANT>-George

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 11:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on May 02, 2018, 09:16:48 pmBy the time he started Spacex, He already had US$165 million of money after selling Paypal shares. Dunno if DARPA gave 5mn or not, but at the time it would not make any difference. Not to say Spacex was founded way after he stepped on US soil, he already got US citizenship by that time.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 11:18:44 pm
content: Beat expectations. Likely due to switching up accounting methods and how leases are accounted.Will see what the year holds.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 11:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 02, 2018, 11:13:17 pmI also do not know if DARPA gave him money, but in all his interviews that I have seen, and I have seen a half dozen or so, he did not say anything about DARPA. He and his brother made his first money selling a online yellow pages. Then he got involved in writing the PayPal software and sold it for $165 M. All of his $165 M was spent on SpaceX and Tesla. SpaceX almost didn't make it, he had blown up the first 3 launches at the pad and, if the 4th hadn't made it, there would not be a SpaceX (maybe not even Tesla). NASA has given SpaceX a contract as a space taxi, about $1.8 B, but gave the larger share to Boeing at about $4 B.All of this is pretty much public knowledge, with a few searches, you can verify all of this.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 11:49:51 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on May 02, 2018, 09:16:48 pmIt's time to take your medication. You'll feel better.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 07:48:48 am
content: Quote from: A Hellene on May 02, 2018, 09:16:48 pmQuote from: orion242 on May 02, 2018, 07:54:46 pmyou lost me at wormholesjust knowing universe has a bug infestation is shocking.the problem with artificial Intelligence is that its fake ... u see I knew this girl blondes!as for hyperloop, Elon Musk must demonstrate that mus musculus or rattus norvegicus can travel at 600 kmh or 373 miles per hour in a working hyperloop vacuum tube without death or injuries, having it all captured on live video that will also demonstrateuninterrupted data flow from the carriage or pod inside a tube at 600 kmh or 373 miles per hour.if hyperloop fails this most basic lab test , then its all just public relations stunts from the green anti-aviation lobby.that's my two bits w

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 08:11:48 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 02, 2018, 11:49:51 pmSo, you seem to believe that you have solved the problem byshooting the messengerinstead of addressing the (admittedly, sinister) message itself.Please, accept my sincere congratulations (in every single aspect)![And, no, the exhortation above is anything but a personal attack; you may call it,food for thought]-George

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 08:33:02 am
content: QuoteThat's nice...QuoteCitation needed for the subatomic experiments part.QuoteCERN is an organization. Do you mean the collider?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 02:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on May 03, 2018, 08:11:48 amThere is no message. A message contains content. This is just noise. Some relevant references might have provided some external content, but those are absent too. There's nothing of value or interest.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 06:54:53 pm
content: According to an article on a Dutch news website one of the problems is the poor build quality of the Model 3. That could become a major problem. And then there is the competition which has introduced competing cars for lower prices and some with better range / shorter charging times. So yes, it is time Elon gets his sh*t together.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 07:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 03, 2018, 06:54:53 pmPlease list any. Especially with shorter charging time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 11:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 03, 2018, 07:39:06 pmThe article lists the following competing cars: Jaguar I-Pace, Audi de E-tron, Porsche Mission E and other cars which have been announced to arrive on the market shortly.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 11:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 03, 2018, 11:13:30 pmThose all sound like cars in a different ballpark. If they compared them to the new Roadster, sure. Not the Model 3.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 02:33:43 am
content: Seems silly to discount the traditional manufactures. They have EVs coming. They can watch the early guys and avoid their pitfalls. Tesla's market is going to get crowded soon.They have the experience with production in the space.By every measure they are financially more stable.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 02:36:47 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on May 04, 2018, 02:33:43 amThey're also weighed down by their size and years of pursuing common technologies. Traditional car makers aren't known for their agile decision making.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 02:48:16 am
content: Because ideally they don't go tits up with fad of the week. EVs are not new, they are coming to the market that Tesla had little competition. Soon players that can fund the new products with experience producing them will be on the market.They also know the cost of safety, maintenance, recalls, etc.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 02:56:10 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on May 04, 2018, 02:33:43 amNo worries, that moron has already prepared the Mars travel story to keep burning money.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 02:58:10 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on May 04, 2018, 02:48:16 amThey don't have experience. They tried a few times and failed miserably. It seems an EV is not the same as a regular car. Besides, major manufacturers go tits up all the time. If it weren't for a few bailouts there wouldn't be as many around now.I'm not saying Tesla is the future, but the traditional manufacturers are dinosaurs suffering from inertia. They haven't shown an ability to adapt to new technologies and don't have much experience. I think a manufacturer like VAG may be best positioned, as it has Audi racing experience with somewhat relevant technology.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 03:02:09 am
content: They have had flops so far. What major car company isn't littered with flops. These are products with decade plus lifetimes. The key is to have more winners than losers.Who's going to bail out Tesla? On a crash and burn run unless profits start to dominate.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 03:19:43 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on May 04, 2018, 03:02:09 amI don't think Musk cares. He set out to make EVs sexy and that's what he did. Though I suspect that the people who invested will pour money into it to prevent it from being a total loss.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 03:22:45 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 04, 2018, 03:19:43 amExactly. Not really his money, he banks everything on his persona. As long as he can point investors to some winners, he will have backing. Once investors turn, its game over.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 04:12:11 am
content: As I said in an earlier post, his life is a pretty open book. The guy is a dreamer who envisioned some things that he wanted to see happen and used his own money to actualize his dreams. I don't think he realized the magnitude of problems that he would/will encounter trying to accomplish his visions of going from a car company to a car manufacturer. His interviews with various people, at least to me, reveals his aspirations and philosophy.With that said, his new venture with the Model 3 (funny how his car names are similar to Henry Ford's) is a production problem. Getting a full vehicle production system off the ground is non-trivial. Quality suffers when one tries to ramp up production too quickly, which then causes delays which frustrates the original goal.I am neither a fan nor a hater of Elon Musk, just trying to look at his ambitious goals to see what he does wrong and what he does right. No one can deny that he has made some amazing accomplishments so far. I do think he is an interesting person and has accomplished a lot.I thought I would share a few links to some of his interviews. They reveal a lot about his philosophy and his character.

author: jacksat
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 08:12:26 pm
content: And that is also Elon M.Elon Musk's strange reactions on Tesla's earnings callhttp://money.cnn.com/video/news/2018/05/03/elon-musk-earnings-call-orig.cnnmoney/index.htmlorhttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/03/tesla-bull-post-conference-call-we-are-reevaluating-our-stance.html?recirc=taboolainternal

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 10:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: jacksat on May 04, 2018, 08:12:26 pmAny analyst serious about readjusting his evaluation after an atypical press conference like this just shows his hand and proves he's making it up as he goes along. That's not a solid business evaluation, that's reading tea leaves. What's next, news about how Musk is wearing the wrong colour boxer shorts which must be indicating problems with the next SpaceX launch?I know the economy is a system of trust, but this is elevating it to a system of faith.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2018, 10:33:08 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 04, 2018, 10:25:46 pmMusk or the analyst?Almost sounds like Musk is laughing between the so dry & killing me lines.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2018, 07:00:12 am
content: The latest I heard but seek confirmation before believing is that the Tesla's marketing strategy are like HP's inkjet strategy, sell the car reasonably priced but overcharge the yearly service (€800 ) and spare parts. They are now selling the T-S taxis in Amsterdam but little interest from buyers since the maintenance costs are extreme, like Porsches SUVs here are sold for <15k 2nd after four years no-one wants those gass gurgling heavy beasts but main reasons is the very expensive service costs and parts. Not strange perhaps for the most expensive Tesla's but if the M3 is the same......