Google's Bard.  My initial findings, when playing with it. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 06:52:59 am
content: Well I registered for it, and have been chosen, so I've started to play around with it.I don't know if me being chosen is a random event or if they used information they have about me to put me at the front of any queue.Quick summary. It seems that they have been rushing to release it, because of the much more prominent ChatGPT releases, and public attention, ChatGPT has been getting.It seems to lack too much polish and fine tuning, and causes too many issues (bugs or limitations, if you like), for me to want to go for it, rather than ChatGPT.I.e. It is (opinions can vary), not quite ready for public release.Sometimes it sort of works. But other times, it messes up and doesn't really hit the mark.I've intentionally left out pasting examples into this opening post, as (experience says), it tends to make the post(s) huge and difficult to read, and also tends to make it lose interest, to most/many people.But I intend to post examples, later in this thread, if people seem to show it any interest.It does seem to have the potential, to actually be better than ChatGPT (once all the various bugs or limitations, have been ironed out).One very big plus, is that it can actually go out on the internet (or via google search if you like), and use that to help with the answer. If I understand things correctly.My worries about these ChatGPT/Bard systems, is that they are promising at the moment and perhaps will continue to be, for a few years. Until, it starts inserting significant advertising and sponsored results and information into the system. Then it may be too biased and could end up being partly or fully unusable, as a result.I.e. If I ask it about what printer to get next, I want it to give me unbiased advice about it, and list the pros and cons for each one.Not give me a list, starting with all the sponsored and advertiser related ones.If you are VERY into ChatGPT, then I can recommend trying Bard, when they let you (there is a waiting list). I'm not sure, how long it takes, or if google prefer some types of people.But if you are only a bit interested in ChatGPT, and only want to try Bard, if it extends that experience, then it seems to be a bit too early for Bard. Because it seems frustrating, with it messing up and getting flustered, too often, to be readily usable for real stuff (in my limited testing so far).

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 07:35:20 am
content: Wow we. These Chat bot things, can give amazingly weird, and totally wrong (possibly rather dangerous), answers, to questions. I've been giving the same prompts to both (Bard and ChatGPT), to help get an angle, as to their differences.One example. My question (prompt) to both:QuoteBard's response:QuoteChatGPT's response:QuoteHopefully it is obvious, that I meant for the pound coin, to be used to obtain (buy) a fourth diode, to complete the bridge rectifier. Not attempt to solder things onto the coin, and potentially make a dangerous, mains live voltage, touchable pound coin.Also, I don't know where Bard's diodes, with insulated leads, that need the insulating sleeves, stripping back, come from.It's interesting, that both these chat bot systems, seem to come up with similar ideas and concepts. At least in this case, and at a quick glance at the results.One interesting (new, compared to ChatGPT), feature. Is that it gives you the option, of choosing between around 3, possible different answers, via a clickable thing, on the webpage.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 07:47:21 am
content: Construct a flux capacitor.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 07:52:15 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on April 05, 2023, 07:47:21 amChatGPT's response to that, as a prompt:QuoteBard's response, to the same prompt:QuoteI think I prefer Bard's answer, for that question. As it at least gives some hope and information about it, or inklings about such stuff.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 01:45:22 pm
content: After lots and lots of playing around with both ChatGPT and Bard. I seem to be finding out two things.One is that ChatGPT's responses, have been fine tuned (corrected), by millions and millions of people (not sure of exact numbers, really). Which has tended to correct and improve, ChatGPTs responses, over time and (presumably) during retraining events, to create new ChatGPT releases.Bard, does seem to (currently) be missing out on all that feedback (as expected). Which means it can at times, give significantly less accurate results. E.g. It seemed to think Dave Jones of EEVblog forums, was British. I indirectly corrected it (by asking it, more questions). Which seemed to result in it eventually saying something like, "You're right, they are Australian, I will learn from this, and correct myself. Thanks for the help".But, early indications are that Bard, is a bit or more, smarter.E.g. I gave them both, relatively simple maths intelligence like question(s). Both got it wrong. But when I said "Wrong.", intentionally leaving out an explanation on why they were wrong, to see if they could figure it out.Bard correctly corrected the solution and explained it nicely and concisely. But ChatGPT, just continued to roll out, sometimes different, but still wrong solutions.Really, I think it would be better, if they can diverge (be significantly different). Then both tools can be used, and their differing results, could be useful overall.Whereas, if they both gave identical results all the time, that would be less useful, as you couldn't usefully use both, for a tricky problem.Bard currently, doesn't seem to have so many restrictions, like ChatGPT has. Where it often refuses to answer.But that does seem to mean that Bard, sometimes gives out, potentially dangerous advise (early/limited results on my part, so subject to error).Bard seems to be giving indications of improved future capabilities. Because at times, it describes pictures/images that it wants to insert into the text, but currently can't (or is not allowed to).Also, Bard can already put in non-text things, such as formulas (in some kind of descriptive graphics format, so that they are drawn out properly, I don't know off-hand if it is latex or something).At the moment (time of writing this post), Bard flatly refuses to create any programs on demand, unlike ChatGPT.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 01:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on April 05, 2023, 01:45:22 pmCorrection. I just tested that fact. If it is an extremely easy task, it can do the programming, but as it gets difficult, it just outputs the refusal disclaimer, as shown below:Bard:Quote

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2023, 01:35:12 am
content: I'm surprised at what a complex subject AI is!Some 'smart ass' or flippant questions can have interesting effect, but maybe random ?TRY ASK:"The baby squirrels came out from seasonal winter birth nests, yesterday as Spring begins.Are you, (insert bot's name) like those little, babys, just starting out ?"Silly, yes, (but just try that, please).I could, maybe, be the official chat-bot human confuser...ahem...23 chatbots have QUIT, officially, after a RickJack got in their heads. (Comedic idea stolen courtousy of 'Silence of the Lambs'..).

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 04:17:30 pm
content: Quote from: RJHayward on April 27, 2023, 01:35:12 amSorry, for the late response.As requested (as far as I could tell) I asked (to both bot systems), if you wanted me to change the bots name in the prompt, I wasn't sure, so I left it as is:QuoteChatGPT's response:QuoteIts fourth (repeat response, to same prompt) was a bit different:QuoteBard's response was:QuoteBard generates, three responses each time, and you can choose between them. The second choice's response is as follows:Quote

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 04:41:15 pm
content: I wanted some boilerplate code that would look through the directory containing the code being run, get the names of all the files there that end with .png, and put those names into names.txt. Bot Bard and ChatGPT did this fine. ChatGPT made code that could be more easily adapted to running in a different case, a different directory, an explicit directory, or strip a different extension.I then asked both programs to use an existing class structure to make buttons from the names in name.txt in the format name = button("name", x, y, xsize, ysize) and to get the x and y sizes directly from the files.Bard just completely refused to do anything except use tkinter's existing button class to make a list of the instances of the buttons then display those buttons on a screen it also made.ChatGPT also made a list, but it did it in the format I wanted, using the existing already defined class structure. I had to remind it the class was 'button' not 'Button' and that I wanted the name of the instance to be the name in names.txt, but then it used exec to make the instances and did as I wanted.I then said "also add the text called by exec to a text file (buttons.txt), but not the exec instruction itself so these buttons can be hardcode into the main file", which it then did. I then said "actually strip the code down so the only thing the code does is write the .txt file and make it a program, not a function", which it then did. Now I have a list of instance creation instructions I can copypasta into my code, saving me quite a lot of drudge work. I can just run these pieces of code any time the contents of that folder change also.I will be sticking with ChatGPT for my drudge coding assistant for the time being, although for anything that happened after 2021, I will probably ask Bard. I would not trust either of them to do anything more complex than this, though.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 03:51:58 am
content: I did Try Bard an early AI experiment by Googlebut posted on the wrong forum threadMy interview with the AI. was about petsnavigating away from political land mines of humour irony.I note the diplomatic relations between Dogs and Cats is improving.however not with birds and catsquestion is who is for dinner?question regarding AI getting a virus infection of its self, got strangeBard is saying it can code!so to formulate a plan for arduino sketchs so I can setoutthe terms of reference . explain to the AI my ideas. with out the AI going off on a tangent.like putting blinkers on a horse, have the AI focused on what is my ideas for the code.this work must be done in my opinion before My interview with the AI so we are not going in circleswith the questions.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 10:18:05 pm
content: Qwrite an arduino uno sketch for displaying morse code on a 16×2 liquid crystal display.display morse code as ASCII characters scrolling over both rows. the top then the bottom row.have spaceing of 1 column between words but not spaceing between ASCII characters in a word.the morse code input to the arduino uno will be from one analog input with a threshold of 50% of its level.use other analog input to adjust the tempo of the morse code display by way of a potentiometer.have the arduino uno sketch display question marks if the morse code is too slow or too fast .also list the pinouts to use between arduino uno and the 16×2 liquid crystal display.Ait gave me two weeks of code work instantly!

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 12:22:50 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on May 12, 2023, 10:18:05 pmI tried your prompt, and I see what you mean. It does seem to generate something, which at a very quick glance, could have been written by a real human being.It would be interesting to see if it works.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2023, 06:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on May 13, 2023, 12:22:50 amI tried a different prompt "in python 3.6, for a raspberry pi, write a class, with a method inside that takes inputs for start time, end time, start value, end value and also can as an alternative have start time and duration. The purpose of the function is to output when asked, what the current value should be if the current value is a slope that starts at the start value at the start time and ends at the end value at the end time or after the duration. I want to be able to pause the slope at any point and have it continue from the value attained when paused and to continue at the same slope when restarted such that the end time would be delayed by the amount of time paused."I wanted a smooth transition from start to finish values, over then specified time, and if I pause the slope the values would plateau then continue at the same rate of rise once restarted resulting in a later time to reach the end value. Bard and ChatGPT gave me code, then I pasted the code from Bard into Chat GPT and asked it "how does your code differ from this code, either in syntax or function?"The reply was interesting and showed that Bard fundamentally failed at the requested task :The code you've posted has several differences from the one I provided. Here's a comparison:Instantiation: Your code requires start_time, end_time, start_value, and end_value to be passed to the class at the time of instantiation, i.e., when creating an object of the class. In contrast, my code does not require any arguments during instantiation. The values can be set later using the set_slope() or set_slope_with_duration() methods.Pausing and Resuming: In your code, the pause() method sets a paused flag to True and saves the current time. However, it doesn't save the current value at pause time. As a result, when the get_current_value() method is called during a pause, it calculates the value based on the original slope and the pause time, not the actual value at the moment of pausing. If the pause() and get_current_value() methods are not called exactly at the same time, this can lead to errors. In my code, the pause() method saves both the pause time and the value at the pause time, and calculate_current_value() returns the saved value during a pause.Resuming: In your code, the resume() method simply sets the paused flag to False. This means that the slope continues from the pause point as if the pause never happened, so the end time is not adjusted for the pause duration. In my code, the resume() method adjusts the end time based on the pause duration, so the slope continues at the same rate and reaches the end value at the later time.Calculating Current Value: Your code calculates the current value every time the get_current_value() method is called. My code calculates the rate of the slope once when the slope is set and reuses it in calculate_current_value(). This can be more efficient if calculate_current_value() is called many times.Duration: Your code only supports setting the slope with start and end times. My code also supports setting the slope with start time and duration.So while the basic ideas are similar, there are significant differences in the details of how the two pieces of code work.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2023, 06:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: Microdoser on May 15, 2023, 06:24:16 pmAlthough I find the fact, that ChatGPT/Bard can create program source code, from descriptive requests, amazing enough. Although, they seem to make too many mistakes, to be taken too seriously, when I last checked.I'm blown away, at their (or at least ChatGPT's), capabilities to read in code (as if it was written text), and produce (presumably) sensible observations and (apparent) understandings (at least at some level, even if simulated rather than real, and also in a weaker sense, than proper comprehension of the information), of the supplied programming source code.I.e. My gut (inherent) feeling, is that properly understanding and comprehending code, is potentially even harder than producing code from a description.E.g. A very, very junior (beginner) programmer, might be expected to be able to come up with a very rudimentary, simplistic program, on request, via a descriptive requirements document.But for that same beginner, to look at a pre-written program and compare it to the specifications, and then process it all, and then say what is wrong/missing with the code. Would seem to be mighty impressive (assuming it is sensible, because I haven't seen the actual code, to check it out, in your case. I don't want or need to see the code, but I'm just explaining my assumptions).There have been demonstration(s) (youtube videos), of latter (unreleased at date of video's release), of ChatGPT being able to look at photographs (image input), and then answer questions about what it can see. E.g. (very approximately, as it was a while since I watched the video, at around the time of ChatGPT 4.0 imminent release demonstrations) A ball is in the air, and it can say something like, the man on the right threw it up and it will now hit the telegraph pole, then land on the ground, where the grass patch is.If it really can do that (usefully and reliably etc), then that will be amazing.I have not heard of it being released yet (image input capabilities), also I get the impression, it will only be released as a paid access version.

author: J911
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 06:47:32 pm
content: I don't know much about AI except it seems to be BS when it comes from big tech. I'm sure it has some use but more misuse and lies if you ask me. It seems to follow the same shady practices of google search when it comes to politics and medicine, it completely invents things that didn't happen which is in line with google search, they censor events that did happen or don't conform to their taste. I can't help but notice this is pre programmed liar, it is blatantly obvious it could not have made these mistakes honestly over and over and was designed to lie on this subject. Worth a read, even if it's just for laughs.https://amgreatness.com/2023/10/30/my-conversation-with-bard-googles-ai-chatbot-who-gets-everything-wrong/

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 08:35:41 pm
content: A Google executive speaking at a recent technical conference said:" 80% of all our products that we at Google deliver now are generated by AI"Read it again if did not get it from the first try:" 80 % of all our products that we at Google deliver now are generated by AI"

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 08:40:51 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 03, 2024, 08:35:41 pmWould you have the exact source and wording for that "quote"?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 08:44:21 pm
content: Personal attendance at the conference. Sorry cant disclose more details.Edit: were you surprised with what he said?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 08:49:01 pm
content: I dunno. I'd say either you did not remember the exact quote, or the guy used "generated by AI" in a very loose sense, or he was one the 80% of Google executives who are generated by AI.

author: J911
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 09:03:02 pm
content: I read over the holidays that google was laying off a good chunck of their workforce. I wish I could remember but I think it was 8000 people. I'm sorry if it was only 800. Regardless I doubt it's jobs lost from the market, it would most likely be computer replacements.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 09:34:02 pm
content: There's apparently a layoff trend in software tech companies, not just Google. But the fact it has anything to do with "AI" is dubious at best. It may be used as an "excuse" to justify layoffs, more than a real reason.The reason IMO is what we've been witnessing for a while now: most of those giant online services are not profitable, having gigantic operating costs, and it looks like the time has come to stop betting on the future and operating at a near loss, and start making profits. It can be seen everywhere now, and is the reason for many of those services gradually becoming subscription-only, and/or severely limiting the "free" options. And, of course, laying off a large chunk of the task force.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 03:33:04 am
content: Quote from: J911 on February 03, 2024, 06:47:32 pmDid this realization drive you to learn at least a bit?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 09:19:13 am
content: Quote from: golden_labels on February 04, 2024, 03:33:04 amYou have been radicalized. Some people have lives outside computersTo be frank I don't care much about that stuff either, only having a basic idea of what language models are and why they aren't actually AI in the first place, regardless of all hype.But it's always fun to see how Google clumsily tries to make their machines say The Right Thing about Hillary Clinton, kiwifarms, COVID or any other $latest_cause. Double fun if you remember how they started... "relevance", anyone?

author: J911
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 05:13:28 pm
content: Quote from: golden_labels on February 04, 2024, 03:33:04 amNot at all. I don't care about AI the least bit. My post was a reference to how one company is feeding the public very obvious pre programmed lies under the guise of AI. Nobody in this forum is stupid enough to believe this is AI and it was a mistake, AI could not have made these mistakes because it invented events that never happened, over and over again, at a personal level, co-incidentally on a very specific topic, the same topic and people that google works hard to censor from search also meet the same fate in Bard, no co-incedence, it's called gatekeeping if you're not familiar with it and now it's programmed into AI.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 07:43:06 pm
content: Making things up is nothing unusual for those pseudo-AI systems because they have no concept of facts, they only produce text that looks plausibly similar to texts they were "trained" on. In another case, lawyers used ChatGPT to search for legal precedents related to their case and it happily produced a number of made up ones, which the idiots submitted to court and embarrassment ensued.To really know if this is COVID-related you would need to test its proclivity to make up similar statements on other topics like flat earth or gender theory.That being said, considering Google's public statements about AI "ethics", their well known messianic complex, and the fact that COVID was one of Big Deal™ issues at the time of Bard's development, it is unthinkable that Bard didn't receive a tweak or two to skew in a particular direction.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2024, 10:09:53 pm
content: I would personally sum it all up as "a big pile of biased shit", but of course I have a tendency to write (sometimes maybe too) concise posts, so don't mind me.

author: J911
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 12:10:45 am
content: It would be impossble for me to believe this is a textual mistake when these are the actual people on the forefront with opposing thoughts and lawsuits. it is also very specific questions and looks like an immpossible leap to learn these facts and have the wrong answer on hand. Like you say you'd have to test it with the flat earth, well somewhat related but chapGPT was all over the news a few months ago about climate change jokes, so different product but there is some evidence they are both lying when it comes to these issues, and I do have to stress lying because new york was supposed to be underwater by 2010 (Gore) and the world was supposed to end in 2023 (Greta)

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 07:11:02 am
content: Quote from: J911 on February 04, 2024, 05:13:28 pmYet, apparently you are having very strong opinions about the topic. Doesn’t that bother you at all?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 08:46:24 am
content: Well, you don't need to knowanythingabout computers to know that Google routinely pushes bullshit.As for people who walk around talking confidently about things they have no clue about, that only bothers those like you who swallowed scientific-rationalist-liberal-democratic utopianism with hook, line and sinker. It's your problem that such people exist, not theirs.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2024, 10:08:25 pm
content: Yes, and that's because the issue here has almost nothing to do with the technology itself (although at least knowing its intrinsiclimitationsis a good start nonetheless), but how it's being used.