Pro Tip: DIY Hand Sanitiser - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 01:42:40 am
content: The hand sanitizer I have says the active ingredient is ethyl alcohol, you can buy that stuff (mixed with something to make it taste horrible) in the paint section of any hardware store as denatured alcohol.I don't really understand the current obsession with hand sanitizer though. It's better than nothing but if you have access to soap and running water it's more effective to just wash your hands.

author: johnlsenchak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 01:45:42 am
content: Emergency DIY hand sanitizers

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 01:50:12 am
content: Isopropyl alcohol disappeared off of the shelves around here just as fast as the hand wipes did. My home made disinfectant is 1/2 teaspoon of Clorox added to a gallon of water. I still have hand wipes so I just use this stuff for wiping down surfaces.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 01:52:41 am
content: Yeah, even my usual suppliers are dry on IPA.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:15:10 am
content: I just checked the local Home Depot here and they have 10 gallons and 13 quarts of denatured ethyl alcohol, it's readily available if one knows what to look for.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:24:02 am
content: Quote from: james_s on March 16, 2020, 01:42:40 amYou're on the money. Warm water and soap do the job and do it well. Soap and water are effective against fat and the virus has a somewhat fatty outer layer. You need to wash properly of course. Meanwhile, not all hand sanatizers are effective though alcohol based ones do seem to desolve the virus as well. Note that antibacterial properties are generally useless against a virus.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:44:09 am
content: My cleaner/degreaser of first resort is a drug-store bottle of 93% IPA with a spray trigger from an auto detailing supplier. This makes a very affordable and convenient cleaner. I keep it by the sink because it works especially well for cleaning pine tar off hands after working in the yard.It's not especially surprising that stocks are running low on this type of alcohol. Most of the time, very few people are buying it (a bottle lasts me a few years). Right now, many many people are trying to buy it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 11:24:10 am
content: Quote from: james_s on March 16, 2020, 01:42:40 amThat's the entire point, when you are out and about you usually don't have access to soap and running water. You can carry this in your pocket.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 11:27:14 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 01:50:12 amNot so here.Hand sanitiser went about Jan 27th or so. IPA was still being sold in bulk on ebay a few days ago when I last checked. Only during editing this did I go to get some screen captures and it was all gone!

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:25:00 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 16, 2020, 01:42:40 amI have read that isopropanol is more effective on bacteria while ethyl alcohol is better inactivating viruses. People sometimes mix the two, with an alcohol concentration of at least 60%.The latter was in normal stock, yesterday, at the local chemist / drugstore. People appeared to be more interested in buying plenty of toilet paper.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:34:48 pm
content: The news casters are bemoaning the fact that this outbreak will destroy a lot of businesses and will put many people out of work but this is also going to be a boom time for many industries.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:37:42 pm
content: For the toilet paper makers, I think it will be a boom and then a bust, as people run down the pallet loads they bought.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 02:52:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 16, 2020, 11:24:10 amI got a pack of small plastic craft bottles at a dollar store, loaded them with hand sanitizer and put in a basket by the door. Family members going out can grab one from the basket as they going out, bring used ones in and i refill them. This way you always have sanitizer with you and the bottle size is tiny and fits woman's purse just like a lipstick.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 07:54:46 pm
content: When we will get cooking, gardening, golfing and fishing pro tips?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 08:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on March 16, 2020, 07:54:46 pmVery soon now. As soon as everyone gets laid off and starts discovering that that they can have a life outside of work, going to the bars or the theme parks.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 08:06:13 pm
content: Also here in Canada, all alcohol/isopropyl sold out locally for weeks. Even a lot of people buying vinegar, but apparently its not too effective.Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 02:34:48 pmA handful will boom, the vast majority will suffer. I mean for sure be positive, but do you think many if any low level workers will benefit from this situation?- Grocery stores- Alcohol/sanitizer/toilet paper/glove producers

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 08:21:18 pm
content: We need some brain sanitiser for those who buy all the flour, pasta, toilet paper and so on. Not a single bag of flour left in the super market. It's crazy!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 08:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 16, 2020, 08:06:13 pmHow short sighted you are! This is the exact reason that low-level workers usually don't benefit from changing conditions but smart people that are willing to learn new skills, work, innovate and create do.How aboutanythingin the medical profession? There will be a huge increase in demand over the next few years. Also research, any kind of drug manufacturing, even homeopathic medicine (can you grow Aloe Vera?), every sort of home delivery service including grocery and food delivery, manufacture, sales and operation of medical devices, computer services including support for work at home systems will increase drastically, so will will in-home entertainment since people can't go out. Those are just a few that I can think of at the moment. If I was in the restaurant business, I would be closing my dining room and installing cashless online ordering system and drive through pick windowsright now. Those are probably the only kind of restaurants that are going to survive this. IF you have any idea that supports that kind of operation (remodeling, operations, computer services, ordering systems, you name it) here is your chance to get in on the ground floor.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 09:00:08 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 08:00:33 pmGoing to the bars or theme parks?- Many are home and going nowhere, eager to do some electronics, yet receive advice about DIY hand sanitizer, not uCurrent or uSupply:https://www.eevblog.com/projects/usupply/

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 09:48:08 pm
content: Some data on sars-cov-1:https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00430-004-0219-0QuoteVinegar did work, but it took twice as long as isopropyl."Desderman" is 96% ethanol with some preservative, it seemed to be even more effective.Quote from: Stray Electron on March 16, 2020, 08:40:31 pmSo you agree then, low level workers will suffer here? Regardless of whatever bootstraps you think they should be pulling on.OK good we are at an agreement and we can move on with the discussion.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 11:55:18 pm
content: Quote from: helius on March 16, 2020, 02:44:09 amI use some stuff called Oil Eater, it's inexpensive and can be diluted as needed. It does a fantastic job of removing skin oils so it works very well for cleaning up grungy control panels on test equipment. It does an equally fantastic job of cleaning the oils right out of your skin so wear gloves unless you like having crusty skin and cracked bleeding cuticles.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 12:01:17 am
content: Quote from: ogden on March 16, 2020, 09:00:08 pmI know a handful of people who work in bars and restaurants which the governor of WA has decided to "temporarily" close. They are suddenly out of work and have no idea when their next paycheck will come. Yes they can collect unemployment for a while, though it isn't nearly as much as they were typically earning. Restaurants tend to have razor thin profit margins so even a couple weeks of forced closure could be catastrophic and now they're talking possibly a month or two.Yes some businesses will boom but many, many more will suffer and the effects of this will ripple for a long time, I think we are headed into a recession that will make the recession of 2008 look like a walk in the park. I *hope* I'm wrong but the news just keeps getting worse all the time.I'm wondering if they should bring in the military to set up scores of temporary hospitals rather than crashing the entire economy in a likely futile attempt to stem the spread.

author: aqarwaen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 12:29:17 am
content: cant you just use thermal paste removing alchool. if i understand correct it should 80% or 90% alchool.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 01:42:37 am
content: Another readily available disinfectant is Iodophor which is Iodine-based. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodophor)I haven't checked, but I suspect the panic-buyers have probably ignored this one for the most part.It's used by many industries as a sanitizer for food equipment. I have a 500ml bottle that I got to sanitize my brewing equipment -- cost $3 if I recall correctly. I use a capful (1/4 oz) per 2 gallons for a no-rinse sanitizer, so one bottle goes a LONG way.Stronger solutions have been used as a surgical scrub and for wound care in the past, and still are when nothing better is available. They also stain the skin, but that'll go away in time.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 02:24:21 am
content: Quote from: james_s on March 17, 2020, 12:01:17 amSeriously?? You still don't get it do you? This is an epidemic. No one can stop it now. Allowing people to circuit WILL make things worse and extremely rapidly. The military can't change that. The government has the choice to stop the economy now and minimize the number of infected or do nothing and everyone will become infected immediately and then the economy will stop on it's own and tens or hundreds of millions will die due to an overloaded medical system. If they can minimize the spread (even if it stops the economy), then the medical systems can hopefully deal with that and the number of infected and dead will be minimized and therefore the economy will have the chance to recover.We're at the triage stage but at a national level. The government has to make choices about what industries (cruise lines, theme parks, bars, restaurants) to sacrifice so that this country and our society survives in the best possible condition and with as manylivingsurvivors as possible. Every county out there is going through the same process and as far as I know ALL of them have made the same choice to close every possible high density gathering to minimize the rate at which this infection is spreading and to maximize their citizens chances of survival.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 04:10:31 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 17, 2020, 02:24:21 amNo, I really don't, not the level of panic that is occurring and the only thing I fear right now is the panic. At this point I hear Chicken Little screaming that the sky is falling and this kind of mass hysteria risks very serious consequences. If the economy collapses few are going to have the luxury of quarantine and in the USA people who are unemployed and don't have money can't get medical care outside of a hospital emergency room which can't refuse treatment but is the most expensive treatment available and they will be stuck with the bill. If we end up with another great depression nobody is going to care about a virus, they'll be risking everything to find any job they can get to put food on the table.By military I don't mean armed soldiers coming in to do battle, I mean military doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital staff, logistics, engineering, etc. Get a load of temporary hospitals going just as would be done during a war to mitigate the overload to the medical system. The military is a huge reserve of manpower and equipment that our tax dollars are already paying for.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 09:31:04 am
content: Quote from: jfiresto on March 16, 2020, 02:25:00 pmBoth are just as effective:https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 10:02:47 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 17, 2020, 09:31:04 amWhile the study confirms isopropyl alcohol is "fully effective" against lipophilic viruses, such as the corona, it is less encouraging about those that are not:QuoteIt probably doesn't matter for this application. I prefer ethyl alcohol because of its non-pungent smell. If it has been denatured, I mostly notice that.

author: wetmonday
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 12:47:37 pm
content: Hi Dave and everyoneI hope you don’t mind me contacting you all like this but I was wondering if you would mind checking if the isopropyl alcohol, I own is safe to use for making some hand sanitiser.The PDF with the isopropyl is nine pages and goes over my head. You see I am a basic PC builder (as a hobby) and know nothing about electronics, I buy the isopropyl to clean my PC parts and screens. If anyone can please help, I can direct you to the shop that sells it or send you the PDF if I am unable to attach it here.ThanksMario

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 02:38:41 pm
content: You just put it on your hands, any grade is fine.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 06:31:41 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 17, 2020, 12:01:17 amApart from hand sanitizer and medical face mask manufacturers, everybody else is hit. Whole car industry is shutting down in Europe, airlines are scaling down as well. My point was that people are discouraged to gather in public places such as bars or the theme parks.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 07:36:29 pm
content: Got plenty enough chlorhexadine gluconate to last me a while, and it is a very effective antiseptic, though it is contra indicated for use on open wounds, because of the iodine in it. Also got a lot of methylated spirits on hand, simply because it is always useful, and depending on the brand your denaturing agent for the ethanol is either methanol or MEK, making it a good solvent. Also got a good amount of plain methanol.Then the odd one out, potassium permanganate, used as fish medication, which is a pretty effective antibiotic, though it does leave everything brown afterwards. But magic for destroying anything with amino acids in it in high concentration, so will destroy clothing if applied concentrated as well. Also a litre or two of liquid soap for dispensers as well, not waterless, but useful still, it is in the bathroom for regular washing, just refill when empty, and the bulk liquid is cheap as well.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 07:41:59 pm
content: I had forgotten about Potassium Permanganate. That used to be a very common disinfectant but I don't think it's ever used any more and I don't know if you can still buy it without going through some kind of specially or commercial supplier.Just don't mix it with brake fluid or glycerine. :-0

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 07:15:10 am
content: Quote from: wetmonday on March 17, 2020, 12:47:37 pmYes, seems like 100% IPA/isopropyl although it doesn't actually say the %Just mix with 30% water and you are good to go

author: https403
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 08:17:37 am
content: Hello everyoneI got a bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol off Amazon that claim to have 99%+. Later I noticed its label wrote "industrial grade", and makes me wonder if it is safe to use to make hand sanitizer. Can someone help?ThanksEdit: Link to Amazon ->https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y125RKY/

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 01:53:13 pm
content: Nope, you can't use that. In fact, it's flammable and you shouldn't even have it. You can send it to me for safe disposal.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 02:18:08 pm
content: If someone is wondering about the sanitiser- industrial grade is most likely OK, it just means it is unsuitable to use on wounds and such (i.e. in a medical setting, for example to wipe down skin before inserting an IV needle) because there could be some impurities or additives that don't matter for industrial use. For basic hand washing it is fine, I just probably wouldn't grab food after cleaning my hands like this, though (some of the industrial additives can be toxic if ingested).- if you don't have IPA, normal ethanol (= the stuff some of us like to drink) is fine, even denatured (just see the note above). In fact, the WHO page has recipes for both types, they are essentially identical:https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf-do not fill the solution into a spray/atomizer bottle(like Dave did in the video)! With that you are only a spark (e.g. ESD) away from a fireball!Atomized alcohol in such concentration is extremely flammable, even explosive if sprayed in an enclosed space (e.g. a car). I mean - fire is certainly a disinfectant too but burned hands and singed eyebrows are not fun. Use a bottle with a normal nozzle instead.

author: Sjaak
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 05:00:39 pm
content: if you prefer a gel you can use aloe vera gel (used as aftersun) mixed with alcohol to get the same result. the Aloe vera gel moisturizes the skin. Prolly somewhat safer then a spraybottle.Other sources for alcohol are vodka and burning spiritus (i think it is called white spirit in english speaking countries)

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 08:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: Sjaak on March 18, 2020, 05:00:39 pmVodka is useless, the concentration of alcohol is way too low for it to be an effective disinfectant. You need at least 60-70% alcohol. While there are some spirits that reach such concentrations, it is certainly not the case of vodka."white spirit" is turpentine, that is not alcohol and certainly not a good idea to use as a hand sanitizer!"Burning spiritus" is most likely denatured ethanol, that's how it is sold in France as well - "alcool à brûler" which is a mixture of ethanol and methanol (a highly toxic substance).

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 08:36:45 pm
content: EU no longer uses methanol as the denaturant since 2013. Generally a few % IPA/Butan-2-one and denatonium to make it too bitter to drink.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 09:04:07 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 18, 2020, 02:18:08 pmPlease stop spreading nonsense. The LEL (lower explosive limit) in air for isopropyl alcohol is 2.2% by weight. This corresponds to 96 grams of alcohol vapor in a mid-sized automobile (4 m^3 volume). That weight of aerosol requires over a thousand squeezes of a spray bottle, if you could keep the vapor airborne, which you can't.In actual fact, secondary alcohols burn relatively poorly, which is the reason they are used as cleaners. They burn even worse than primary alcohols, which are themselves no great drama. As a boy a flaming rag soaked with rubbing alcohol passed across my arm, which resulted in a barely first degree burn. The palm of your hand covered in rubbing alcohol burns with little heat and is trivially extinguished. Saying that you are "a spark away from a fireball" is some kind of joke.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 09:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 18, 2020, 02:18:08 pmVirtually nonexistent possibility of fireball is not actual problem here. Evaporation is. Low viscosity fluid works best for spray bottle, yet it will evaporate fast. The longer alcohol stay on your hands - the better chances it will actually do it's job. That's why most sanitisers usually are made as jelly so it will stay on your hands longer. Jelly obviously is not compatible with spray bottles. BTW ethanol evaporates faster than isopropyl.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 10:24:08 pm
content: Quote from: helius on March 18, 2020, 09:04:07 pmYes, tell that to those folks that blew up their car by spraying an air freshener in it.Yes, that's not alcohol vapor but likely a spray with butane or similar propellant, but it is certainly possible to cause an explosion by filling a car with flammable substance and being stupid.Quote from: helius on March 18, 2020, 09:04:07 pmWell, try to spray some alcohol around a cigarette or sparking lighter and you will see what happens if you don't believe me. Ever heard about how a carburetor works?I didn't say that you will get burns but that there will be a fireball - i.e. the atomized alcohol will ignite. And IPA burns certainly well enough for that, especially when atomized into tiny droplets mixed with air. Ethanol even more so.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 10:47:13 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 18, 2020, 10:24:08 pmYes, tell that to everybody who uses sugar. It can explode as well:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_explosion

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 10:58:07 pm
content: As can flour, grain mills have exploded before. Any flammable material that can be atomized can form a fuel/air bomb although some stuff is much more likely than others.I remember when I was a teenager working at a fast food joint we used to smear hand sanitizer on the stainless wall next to the grill and light it on fire. Bored teens passing the time doing what bored teens do.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 10:58:28 pm
content: Don't spray at an ignition source. Don't spray so much that there's more alcohol in the air than water.In order to reach the LEL, you need to evaporate at least 50 g/m3 of IPA, so about 150g given a car volume of 3 m3. That's not going to happen.You can't stop idiots from doing stupid things, but also you shouldn't. That's how you get overly regulated garbage such as not allowing chemicals to be sold to individuals without child-proof caps that are more of a safety hazard than a regular cap.Educate them instead.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 11:23:33 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 18, 2020, 10:58:07 pmAnyway argument that guys made big potato gun (or just free commercial) out of their car just to get into news for few minutes, do not stand here. Unless anybody actually proves that "EEvblog DIY Hand Sanitiser" is explosive and dangerous, it is just

author: wetmonday
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 10:56:02 am
content: Hi allI posted a message on this subject on this page, a couple of weeks ago, but due to problems I was unable to thank Dave and all the posters for taking the time to advice me all. You have all been very kind.

author: c64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:13:55 am
content: Is it necessary to add water? 100% IPA can not kill virus?

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:44:54 am
content: 100% IPA is worse than 70% IPA and more damaging to skin.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 01:41:04 am
content: A Dutch beer brewer got creative since they can't sell all of their beer at the moment and have to drain storage tanks allover the country. They distilled it and made hand sanitiser from the alcohol:

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 07:03:20 am
content: Quote from: c64 on April 05, 2020, 12:13:55 amIt can, however the optimal time for disinfection is about 10 minutes, and 100% alcohol will evaporate before then. 50 to 70% is considered ideal because of the longer evaporation time.A splash of more concentrated alcohol can be used to enhance the disinfecting properties of soap and water, since alcohol is miscible with water. This may not be the most efficient use of the alcohol (as soap is said to be sufficient when used correctly).Many people have speculated on the discoveries/hobbies that might flourish during the stay-at-home period. But shortages of items like alcohol and gloves could frustrate those efforts, as well. I'm guessing not many asbestos abatement companies are working if they cannot acquire PPE. There are ripples throughout everything.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 08:20:40 am
content: Cringe Mode at the fear riddled gullibles at big stores,pumping the public use sanitizer bottles with bare hands,and some grab the bottle to pump out the booze.If you want to catch someone else's 'mutating' pizza or kebab hand oil palmdemic, this is the way..

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 08:25:05 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 05, 2020, 08:20:40 amIf you are pumping without actually usingsanitizerthat comes out of the bottle - then yes indeed!

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 02:05:16 pm
content: https://blog.gotopac.com/2017/05/15/why-is-70-isopropyl-alcohol-ipa-a-better-disinfectant-than-99-isopropanol-and-what-is-ipa-used-for/#Why_Is_70_the_Most_Effective_Concentration_of_Isopropyl_Alcohol_for_Disinfection

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 02:37:09 pm
content: Quote from: helius on April 05, 2020, 07:03:20 am"however the optimal time for disinfection is about 10 minutes"What are you basing that on? Do you have a citation that is relevant for coronavirus?For example, from herehttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670105000447they tested various alcohol preparations and found all were effective against SARS-CoV [edit: by 30 seconds contact time]. Note that we are dealing with SARS-CoV2 but structurally, their relationship is close enough for reasonable generalization.The results are shown in Table I. All four alcohol-based hand rubs led to inactivation of SARS-CoV to below the limit of detection (RF≥4.3, SD 0.5 to ≥5.5, SD 0.5), irrespective of the presence and type of organic load, within 30 s (Table I).

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 04:08:24 pm
content: Shelves are full of isopropanol over here. You just have to buy it with different branding. I buy antifreeze for fuel or antifreeze for truck air brakes. MSDS says it's pure IPA.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 07:09:17 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on April 05, 2020, 02:37:09 pmSurely that is consistent with what I said? It's standard engineering practice to use a safety margin of 10 to 20, particularly when the system's behavior is poorly understood. The limits on poisons in food and water are based on the same safety factors.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 12:34:58 am
content: For the general populace, if you say you need 10 minutes for effectiveness, people are going to be unimpressed and "uncooperative" to say the least. A more practical time of 30 seconds has a much better chance of being followed ... and even then, there are those that will feel that is excessive.Safety margins are one thing - but when you need mass engagement, it's better to put something more realistic in front of people or they will just say it's too hard.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 02:11:40 am
content: A table height mounted tub is a better idea IMHO, people just dunk their hands in and walk off rubbing them up,no stuffing about handling slippery bottles and queue delaysThe person/s supervising in a big public places just have to top up the tub,or toss out once it looks a bit murky**The better go** is people should have clean hands to begin with before dunking, at an auto touchless scrub station beforehand,then dunk into the booze/IPAJob doneand less IPA bottle theft by Chromers

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 06, 2020, 02:11:40 amRight. Other option: fountain of Ethanol. Preferably copy of_eeing Boy statuein Brussels.On serious note: there are loads of variousautomatic battery-operated hand sanitizers.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 06, 2020, 02:11:40 amDon't like that idea - for four reasons:1. People are going to complain about dunking their hands into something thatotherpeople have dunkedtheirhands. (The logic behind this is Cro-Magnon.)2. The fumes are going to be a problem to many.3. You're going to get the occasional idiot who will want to throw a lighted match into it for shits and giggles.4. Loss through greater evaporation

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:02:45 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on April 06, 2020, 05:32:40 pmAgain, no.From reason 2 above: Far worse fume hazard.From reason 3 above: Let's go straight to the flamethrower!From reason 4 above: Even faster evaporation.

author: tanveerriaz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 06:27:55 pm
content: Viruses can be active outside the body for hours, even days. Disinfectants, liquids, wipes, gels and creams containing alcohol are all useful at getting rid of them – but they are not quite as good as normal soap.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 06:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 07, 2020, 01:02:45 pmAgain, for those who do not get it:https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 03:13:20 am
content: Quote from: ogden on April 07, 2020, 06:34:33 pmAfter Brexit, Trump, etc., sarcasm is dead - reality blew it away.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 02:37:12 pm
content: It really is. Even the most absurd things turn out to be true at times.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 08:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on April 08, 2020, 02:37:12 pmIt is sad that people forget/ignore what humor is even seeing direct clue "on serious note" following obviously absurd suggestion

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 12:10:41 am
content: FWIW: re previous suggestion"A table height mounted tub is a better idea IMHO, people just dunk their hands in and walk off rubbing them up"whilst I agree with commenters' 'cons' about it,the 'pros' are that it speeds up the 'waiting to get in' queues,therefore improves on the Social Distancing exposure times,is optional to use and parked away from the regular bottles,and supervised by a prepped staff member and or security person, as all/most places are currently

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 06:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 09, 2020, 12:10:41 amNo need to reinvent the wheel by introducing screaming fire hazard in public place. Just install as many automatic hand sanitizers as needed. Depending on the model, dispense time of such is around 2-3 sec, quick enough.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 11:28:54 am
content: Quote from: ogden on April 07, 2020, 06:34:33 pmYeah, well, it isn't always obvious in a text based communication channel.

author: c64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 12:58:00 am
content: Quote from: ogden on April 06, 2020, 05:32:40 pmBoth of them will not work. Ethanol will evaporate much faster than water - so the ratio alcohol / water will quickly drop below required level

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 07:30:56 pm
content: Quote from: c64 on April 18, 2020, 12:58:00 amLOL. This thread is like broken record:Quote from: ogden on April 07, 2020, 06:34:33 pm

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 01:10:54 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on April 18, 2020, 07:30:56 pmIt happens.Not everybody actually reads a whole thread before posting. Many who encounter a post that makes them want to make a point don't read the following posts to see if it has already been made.

author: c64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 02:45:25 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 19, 2020, 01:10:54 pmI did read the whole thread. Didn't find there it was said before

author: c64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 02:47:44 am
content: Quote from: ogden on March 18, 2020, 09:39:29 pmAny easy recipe to make jelly one?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 02:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: c64 on April 20, 2020, 02:45:25 amFinding what you said hadn't been said before was not the issue.The issue was that what you said did not need tobesaid as it was irrelevant. You may have glanced through the words, but you did not comprehend.