I pulled the trigger on a Siglent SDG-1032X.  A few questions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 05:24:02 pm
content: Okay,First off, thank you guys for all your help!!!!!So I pulled the trigger on the Siglent SDG1032X! (30 MHz, 2CH) (and two BNC to minigrabber leads, and two BNC to alligator leads) for 373.56. Seems like a pretty good deal to me considering the unit itself retails for 400!Let me know what you guys think please! (The good, the bad, anything is welcome!)This is a follow up thread to an earlier thread I posted about which function generator to purchase, if you'd like to catch up there, there was some discussion, as well as a whole blurb about myself, knowledge, tools and what my intentions for the function generator are. I re-posted it here so that I could get a wider viewing audience, seeing that I have a different set of questions now that I have chosen a unit.That can be found here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/building-my-electronics-lab-need-help-choosing-a-function-generator-please-)/Also had another question regarding the SDG1032X, I couldn't find any spec as to the protection of the device, as far as short circuit protection goes. It says in the 800 data sheet "Protection: Short Circuit Protection". I'm wondering how the 1032X deals with short circuit protection. I ask, because I'm new to the function generator, and certainly do not want to blow the bloody thing up by accident, as you can with your oscilloscope probes and ground leads if you connect them willy nilly and don't understand what mains earth referenced means!I'm also asking for the same reasons as for the reason I do not want to use my iphone or android tablet as a function generator (besides it's obvious faults, limitations etc.); because I want to avoid blowing up my iphone (well maybe not literally, but applying my probe to the wrong place in the circuit, or an improperly wired circuit could easily spell disaster as voltage/current finds its way into my headphone jack on my phone. (and yes, I am aware that you can build a protection circuit for your phone, or I think I may have been reading that, can't relocate that information at the moment, could also be a figment of my imagination lol, though it is up on my whiteboard some diagram about a resistor or capacitor in parallel with signal and ground in a TS phono plug.So same thing goes for the function generator. Any tips/advice on how to keep it safe or how a bench function generator is "safer" to use in terms of damaging the equipment. Is it more forgiving? Is there short circuit protection in case I'm a ding dong (we all have our "oops" moments, even the best of us) and hook it up wrong in the circuit?I am pretty excited for it to arrive and have a good play with it, learn it, smell it (ahhhhh, that new electronics smell, gotta take it in and love it!). Hoping I made a good decision, using all of your guys' awesome help and direction, and reading posts here (though seemed to be a bit limited in the 1000X thread) to point me in and some of my own research to finally narrow it down (as well as we always have to take into account the dollar amount spent). It seems to be a decent upgrade from the original 805/810 I was originally looking at. Two channels, and 30 MHz! (and a true 2 channels at that!) I've never owned one, or used one before, but as I stated in my original post, I'm looking for a unit I can grow into, and I'm eager to learn and apply; and as I read in my EE textbooks that I have and download EE labs from different universities from the internet, many involve signal generators as well as arbitrary wave generators. So it looks like it got both in one package with the SDG1032X (please, correct me if I'm wrong here), and a true 2 channels, or so I read from the data sheets after much contemplation and comparison of different models and different companies, as well taking into account the wealth of knowledge on here!Comments are more than welcome!As well as any suggestions as to test leads/adapters I may need to purchase in addition to make sure I have what I need to make everything go!Here's what I have in terms of test leads for the oscilloscope. I bought an accessory kit from Tequpment.net when I bought the Rigol DS1054Z. Here it is:http://www.tequipment.net/Cal-Test/CT4042/?v=0Hopefully that can help as to what I may already have. I have additional banana to minigrabber and alligator, any other suggestions?(Also keep in mind that I'm a ham, so I may have 50ohm stuff here already (adapters and coax), but would still appreciate advice if certain lengths need to be used, are there oscilloscope grade adapters? coax/cables? connectors? and any other relevant information or materials needed/necessary would be super super awesome and helpful! So that I can get the most out of my learning journeyAlso how does the HI-Z and 50ohm relate in electronics world? I know how it relates when I'm plugging in a HI-Z microphone into my preamp or HI-Z instrument outputs. As Z is impedance.What is the purpose of the through 50ohm adapter that's in that kit?Is it the same thing as a 50 ohm terminator? Or should I have these around as well?This may be a stupid question to ask, but I've been told and always say that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask, so here goes: is spending 400 (well it would have been 400 if not for the sale and discount) on a signal/waveform generator excessive if my scope only costs 400? (I'm not saying these things have a direct link, but am curious if that's just silly). Tautech did recommend I expand my budget, to get what I was asking for in my initial post. Which I'm not opposed to or against if it's a piece of test equipment I can grow into. Not bottom of the barrel, and from a reliable, well liked and much used company by those on the EEVBlog forums, as there seems to be a ton of good people and heaps of information here. You just have to have the time to read it all! Lol!One more stupid one, who is Siglent? Are they a decent company? I can read the about us stuff, but any opinions? Maybe where they rank in the whole scheme of things? (I'm kind of new to all this fascinating measurement technology, so again, I really appreciate any input!)I can, for instance, definitely grow into the Rigol, as I am new to the DSO, and have much to learn still about them. (as well as the oscilloscope in general) Just curious if that seems excessive. Obviously there are reasons why one would choose one function generator over the other, I just would like a little nudge I did or didn't go out of bounds so to speak. I appreciate any and all feedback, as long as it's not ignorant.I think you guys provided me with sufficient information for me to make an informed decision; but it never hurts to check.One helpful chap mentioned that 2 channels is helpful even in simple circuits. Could someone possibly and kindly provide another example? (I understand you can then drive two different things with two different frequencies or the same frequency, or whatever you want, but a real life example. Not just that you can use two channels to hook up to whatever you want to, obviously lol.As well any links or suggestions to some basic circuits I can experiment around with using the function generator. As well as maybe an experiment or two or link or two using the arbitrary wave generator function.I have also heard that this can be a useful tool for learning the oscilloscope. Any truth to the matter? Maybe some examples or links or a smoke signal?I will definitely post some pics and some thoughts on the unit when it arrives!Thank you all again, I sincerely appreciate all your help and suggestions, comments, links, pictures, youtube videos. All awesome stuff!-Brad

author: MrWolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 05:52:08 pm
content: Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 05, 2016, 05:24:02 pmIt is sort of equivalent to BNC T + regular 50 ohm terminator,which gives better flexibility, but usually worse fidelity signal(more mechanical connections etc).If you want to measure signal gen directly with your scopethat does not have built-in 50 ohm termination you haveonly two "foolproof" options:1) enable HiZ on gen, stick special scope probe BNCadaptor to gen output, scope probe directly to that (in 10X mode!)https://www.google.ee/search?q=probe+bnc+adapter2) enable 50 ohm on gen. Take 50 ohm cable from gen to pass thru term to scope(scope to 1X mode, pass-thru attached to scope!).Anyway above 1MHz or so it's ALL about impedances and matching.Everything will reflect and arrive not in time it was sentCould watch some of his stuff:https://www.youtube.com/user/w2aew/videos

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: MrWolf on December 05, 2016, 05:52:08 pmThanks Mr. Wolf! Good stuff there.I have already seen this video, and he pauses and gives you a moment to pick the problem out and that was my thought, impedence mismatch. So he stuck the BNC T with a 50ohm terminator on it, and bam, Bob's your uncle! I have watched some of w2aew's videos and will be checking out more. It looked like he had some good stuff on there.So if I understand correctly, the music matching is simply the same applied here. They're all electronics, and in order for them to play nicely with each other, impedences must be matched, in the music world to some degree, otherwise you get degradation of the signal, etc.. With studio equipment, there's usually an acceptable range in the spec sheet, especially on a mixing board.And the fact that the DS1054Z does't have a 50 ohm mode, has no effect on what we're talking about here? Or do I have that mixed up? As I understand it, 50 ohm mode (on the scope) is just enabling a 50 ohm internal resistor (inside the scope) to be put into the circuit.-Brad

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:35:17 pm
content: Siglent sig gens have short circuit protection.What you need be careful about is connection to a part of a circuit where there are existing voltages that might damage the output stages of ANY sig gen.Easy to check with a DMM.

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 05, 2016, 06:35:17 pmGood information again tautech! I will definitely write that one down for sure!Cheers for the good info!-Brad

author: MrWolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 06:42:16 pm
content: Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 05, 2016, 06:27:17 pmYep. But real 50ohm scope makes you a pro, just like Ferrari makes you a F1 driver.... or well built lady... umm... No more beer for me tody...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 am
content: Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 05, 2016, 05:24:02 pmPut simply high impedance measurements affect the DUT less, but all measurements affect therealvalue to some degree.Some DUT measurement points arestiff, low impedance if you like and are not affected so much when measurements are taken.Then there HF measurement issues were a Gnd (Reference) lead inflicts inductance into the measurement and either a probe Gnd spring or low-Z probes are a requirement for display ofrealisticwaveforms.The trick is to know what the circuit characteristics are before you connect.There's a few clues about matching source and termination impedance early on in this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/But the real use of output selection of Hi-Z or 50with an AWG is for the AWG to "see or expect" what the loading is and set the correct amplitude for that load.Yes, in some way this is confusing but we're now supplying a source and the load can be stiff (low impedance) or soft (high impedance) so the AWG's output needs to know what it's supplying.You'll find this out when you set it to supply X volts into Hi-Z but then terminate it with 50.Quote50feedthroughs are the preferred termination, most are 1:1 but 10:1 attenuations are also available.They should have a wattage rating on them and some simple maths is required to use them properly.Unlike a 50channel input on a scope that invariably are 5V max so as to not open-circuit the internal termination.QuoteIME you'll update a scope before an AWG. Something like the SDG1032X that you've bought will serve you well for many years. Also consider that AWG's normally have a linear PSU to ensure good signal quality and linear PSU's generally outlast SMPS.QuoteSiglent is the trading name for I think Ding Yang Technology, a number of their core people left Atten and set up on their own ~15 years ago. They spend a lot on R&D and also market a good # of their products as re-brands but they remain the OEM. Probably their largest partner is LeCroy for whom they make several products.This vid that Dave did with their CEO will give you some little insight:https://www.eevblog.com/2015/12/03/eevblog-826-siglent-ceo-eric-qin-visits-the-eevblog-lab/QuoteYou can for example trigger the second channel from the first or another part of a circuit that's been supplied with a waveform from the other channel. Handy when you're breadboarding stuff and you need to check it's working as designed/expected.OR you can simply use one of the channels for a 200mA capable PSU. Check the datasheet.QuoteYep, cause you set a signal type and amplitude that then is visible on the scope.( If it's terminated correctly.) Use the scope's Autoset until you have feel for the scope then learn todriveit as most people do.Before the days of DSO's one read waveform info off the screen using the graticules as a scale as set by the vertical input attenuation and horizontal settings, many still do. Just a glance at the amplitude is mostly enough without need for OSD measurements that in many cases just adds to on screen clutter.You're gunna have some fun with your limited experience, but it should be fun and a good learning opportunity for you. Enjoy.

author: vpetrog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 01:15:23 pm
content: i would like to ask, whether it is possible to connect this sig gen in series with a dc power source, to create offset larger than those of the siggen, something like disconnect ground from output

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 10:10:05 pm
content: Quote from: vpetrog on December 06, 2016, 01:15:23 pmI wouldn't advise it but to be sure we'll see what Tech support has to say on the matter.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 10:43:00 pm
content: Quote from: vpetrog on December 06, 2016, 01:15:23 pmI wouldn't do that. The outputs are ground referenced (outer shell of the BNC connected to mains earth) so you could create ground loops and large short circuit currents when you put a power supply in series and connect something to the circuit like an oscilloscope.

author: vpetrog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 07:44:58 am
content: Yes i understand it, but i was curious whether there was a feature like the old analog function gens, which had a button to isolate ground from output

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 07:50:31 am
content: Quote from: vpetrog on December 07, 2016, 07:44:58 amNot on these entry level Siglent AWG's.Only the SDG5000 series have isolated channel outputs.http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=90&T=2&tid=16

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 08:36:00 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amI'm pretty sure I understand, just as my mixing board wants to "see" a certain load, and can change depending on which jacks and inputs and outputs you are using. I will definitely check out this thread!With ham radio, there are lengths of coax you want to avoid. Are there any lengths you should or shouldn't be using (generally speaking) with the AWG?Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amRight - o on the feed-thru! I shall be careful! I will check the wattage ratingAre 10:1 attenuators preferred? Or more just need one around so you're not limited in application?Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amGood to know, I'm glad that wasn't a silly thing to do. I can see what you're saying about needing to upgrade your scope first. Roger on that.I also definitely can appreciate having a linear power supply. Good stuff, as, like you said, they generally outlast SMPS PSU's.Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amThank you for that information, I was curious, and it seems you have answered my questions. I also don't think people on the EEVBlog would be ranting and raving about a completely crap product. Good to know that they spend $'s on their R&D which hopefully equates to a good product.I shall definitely watch the video. Cheers.Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amGood information here, and that's interesting that you can use one of the channels as a 200mA capable PSU! Cool jazz!Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amIt sure sounds like I'm going to have some fun with my limited experience and have more fun as it continues to grow and expand!Thank you for confirmation on using the AWG or function generator to help to learn the DSO, and I totally know what you mean by just glancing at the graticules as a scale and taking your measurement from that. Though some analog scopes to support readout, as mine do. However, the plugins that I have for it don't output the readout, except for the logic analyzer plug in I have for the 7514 Tek Scope.Wow tautech! I really, really appreciate your super useful information that I shall be immediately putting in my brain! Really good stuff! I have been busy downloading XYZ's of function generators from Tek, and giving them a print so I may have a hard copy to write and take notes. Also downloaded a bunch of different experiments/labs to do with the function generator and oscilloscope, and for now to keep it simple, in conjunction with RC circuits. Not to mention printing out the instruction manual for the SDG1032X, all those shots of the screen use so much inkThis is super fascinating stuff (all of it), and I truly look forward to understanding it more and more until I understand it fully!You have truly been a great help, and I really appreciate your time in helping me to understand and as well push me in a direction of what to purchase so I don't outgrow it in the near future. I also see that in order to play with FM and AM and PSK and FSK, for instance, for my ham radio stuff, that you need to be able to generate modulated waveforms such as those, and some of the other units I was looking at didn't provide that.I am also into flashlights, and some are into their PWM (which I don't prefer as the method of dimming the led, but I digress), and I see that this also supports PWM. Very cool stuff! Looks like that made it an even better purchase knowing I can already learn wiith some of the things I enjoy already, and this AWG can generate those kinds of modulated signals.Cheers again to all, I really do appreciate it!Keep it coming!-BradPS: I have just recieved the unit!I am excited to open it and give it the smell test. I hope it smells good! Shall be unboxing and posting some pics soon! (well it arrived earlier today, but I had stayed up all night researching and looking for good experiments and labs and tutorials to use, so I was a sleeping when it arrived, but it's here!!Now I just need to get some more test leads and a few other bits and bobbles and I should be happy as a pig in you know what! Lol

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 07:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 07, 2016, 08:36:00 amI've not struck this as an issue at the low frequencies Arbs operate at. What's more you're using arangeof frequencies and therefore correct termination will be more important. Don't get too hung up on this, it won't be a problem.Quote from: tautech on December 06, 2016, 07:20:57 amQuoteIf you consider your previous comments on Ham stuff and use of a Tee and a 50termination you're effectively inserting a stub were there then might be a higher chance of reflections, but that's at higher frequencies than you'll use an AWG for.Feed-throughs of any quality are not that cheap so for the odd time you'll want one just get a 1:1 or use a tee with a termination like most do.QuoteJust a little time bashing around in the menus of your AWG should be all you need to gain a good basic understanding of its functionality and the menus are reasonably intuitive so you'll be fine once you get a handle on what it can do.QuoteNot only do you benefit from this but other readers do.Sure one can gain lots of knowledge from just reading the forum but specific topical questions get you to the answer/understanding much quicker.Anyway you're most welcome and thanks for the PM expressing your gratitude.QuotePig in poo Brad.

author: flash2b
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 08:05:23 pm
content: QuoteWell...... follow the link below to get 2 Feed-throughs for €6,30 and with coupon TOOLS15 additional €0,95 discount.http://www.banggood.com/P7001-2Pcs-50-Feed-Through-Terminator-BNC-Female-Seat-50KY-Device-Q9-Adapter-p-1108649.htmlThat is a nice price to terminate the end of the year !!!

author: vpetrog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 10:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 07, 2016, 07:50:31 amthank you very much, i ll search around to find a AWG that costs <500€, that has isolated channel outputs

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:24:28 am
content: Here are somy unboxing photos from my brand new Siglent SDG1032X!

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:28:35 am
content: Photos continued. . .

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:29:41 am
content: Photos continued. . .

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:36:58 am
content: When you've found your way around the menus go into Utility>System Info and check which FW version it's using.The latest is P22 and you can download it here:http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDG1000X_P22.rarIt's an .rar package and you'll need to unpack it for the instructions and the .ads FW file.

author: VolvoBrad007
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 01:40:35 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 12, 2016, 06:36:58 amThanks tautech! I just powered it on and checked. The current firmware is 1.01.01.19R2.Cheers for the link, I shall download the latest firmware and update my unit!Good stuff.Thanks again for all your wonderful and continued help!Cheers,-Brad

author: kasti
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 04:40:15 pm
content: Hi SDG1032x won't wake up after inserting SD card. I idiot thought that the card would be visible in the system like a USB stick and I put the SD there. Now Siglent is closed. The furious wife screams that I'm sitting and trying to fix it but it doesn't work. Please help because my wife is still packing my suitcases.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2023, 05:42:08 pm
content: Quote from: VolvoBrad007 on December 07, 2016, 08:36:00 amI've only skimmed the thread, but it looks like a little clarity on something may help. Without addressing why things are the way they are, let me give you some simple answers to these three questions.The SDG1032X output is essentially a nearly perfect voltage source followed by a 50R resistor. The selection of 'Hi-Z' or '50R' makes absolutely no difference to its actual functioning, however if you have it set to Hi-Z it will display the voltage of the voltage source and if you have it set to 50R it will display a number that is exactly 1/2 that of the voltage source. That's what it actually does, why is a different question. It is important to realize that the AWG has no way of sensing the actual output voltage at the BNC.The AWG does not 'want' to see a certain load and doesn't care about the output impedance (or reactance, to a point) as long as it is passive. (Connecting to power sources is all bad) However, the resultant voltage and current at the output will vary according to the load parameters, that is up to you to figure out and work with.As long as you keep your cables under about 1 meter, I think it is pretty unlikely that you'll have any noticeable issues with cables, impedance mismatches or any of that. You can typically just connect your AWG directly to a 1M scope input and still not have any serious issues with reflections or ringing because it is back-terminated at the AWG. The only exception might be using the square wave function with multiple stubs and connections. I'm not saying you should just ignore termination and related issues nor that someone clever couldn't cook up a setup that would prove me wrong here, just noting that you can often get away with ignoring the concepts altogether, especially if you are at lower bandwidths. You should explore this whole issue on your own as you have a terminator, cables, etc to play with.