Are Siglent oscilloscopes reliable? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: drakke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 04:22:03 am
content: I am a Mech Eng (that wants to learn more about electronics and microcontrollers in particular) about to buy my first oscilloscope but know little about the reliability and quality of the different brands.I have seen a 70MHz Siglent scope that interest me.1) Does Siglent make reliable quality scopes for their price? Anything glaringly bad?2) Is 70MHz enough bandwidth for a beginner interested in microcontrollers and robotics?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 05:29:03 am
content: Never had a faulty unit or a warranty claim in any that I have sold.100 % solid.Really whats more important IMO is the dealer you source from and their ability to provide backup and assistance if required.

author: drakke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 06:18:09 am
content: Thanks for the reply.I can get the SDS1202CNL for about $200 more than the SDS1102CML. Is the SDS1202CNL worth the extra cash?What is the difference between the SDS1202CNL and the SDS1202CNL+I cannot see any literature on the latter?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 06:37:39 am
content: The !000 series CNL or plus models have much less memory than the CML models.Instead of chasing BW I would recommend the CML versions with 2 M memory.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 06:49:18 am
content: I have one that's about 6 years old. It was bought because I needed a cheap scope to courier to a job. It has been all over Canada and I brought it home with me when I retired. A good (but basic) DSO.

author: drakke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 08:28:08 am
content: Yes I think the 100MHz CML version is the best for me.Thanks.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 09:18:53 am
content: Siglent and Atten are different companies.Atten do not even have product line for (digiltal)oscilloscopes and also, Atten brand equipment may have manufactured where ever.It is true thatAtten / GrattenSiglent primary owner is same.It do not at all mean that Siglent product = Atten product, or vice versa.It is also true that Siglent do some products as OEM for Atten but who knows if they are exatly same in all cases. This is because, even you, can order product with your own "money saving" specifications from OEM/ODM Siglent.Good example is old Atten total crap signal generator (AWG) what was total shit. Siglent have nothing to do with it. (and many other examples where Atten some products are like made on the some street corner as cheap as possible)We have lot of old and not so old youtube junk where user do not know anything how to really use equipments or do not understand they limits, just take from carton and run with video without first even read specs or user manual. Then other fun is that typically they do not tell FW version and in many cases we do not know if even self cal have done before "show". Example there in video user try violate specs and then he wonder how this is possible and also in video can clearly see that selfcal have not done.(but then, if think LeCroy price... situation is somehow different... with LeCroy list price... this scope is in wrong price group - imho)-----------I have only 50 years experience with many kind of oscilloscopes and other test and measurement equipment in hobby use and some years less in work use in industry. Today SDS1000L series works just reliable and well related to price class and it need say that HW building quality is today least good +.Reliability (oscilloscopes).I have not meet any failure.I have "burn in" tested with checking measurements every single equipment what I have sold.In this quality control test failure percent 0.After sales, from customers, equipment failure percent 0. (at this time)After sales, from customer, 2 separate times probe have failed. (immediately changed new)(one case, internal bad contact (clear manufacture error), other case perhaps hadled wrong and BNC internal GND connections have bended so that connection was not reliable, possible manufacture error)After these cases I start also (quick)check every probe before sell.Signal generator.In burn in quality control one quite old case where Siglent have assembled accidentally wrong output amplifier on the main board.Also In burn in quality control: Older cases, made HW modification: QTY 4 SDG's PECL comparators hysteresis setting changed and improved internal sinewave noise level coming to PECL. (it was "low freq square wave jitter/glitch problem" in some units)No any failures from customer side.I sell also Owon and have previously sold Hantek and Rigol.(also Owon have very low failure rate but not exatly zero but ~1%)Hantek - so much warranty time problems and also so much just DOA units from factory. Never want this catastroph repeating. In worst phase incoming Hanteks failure percent in my quality control was well over 25% (~40%). (depending how to count lots). It was finally - game over.Rigol - long time ago I sell also R. - never get any answer from Rigol for solve any problems. So, I stopped. In my own use for some dedicated purpose I have also new Rigol (1000Z series) but I do not even think to sell these. (price competition is far away fron "fair play" and I do not want be free working part of this game)

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 01:28:09 pm
content: Quote from: drakke on December 29, 2014, 04:22:03 amYes and Yes. Siglent has shown that they can make overall very decent and reliable hardware. In fact, considering the price of the SDS1000CML/CNL scopes, I'd say the quality is surprisingly good.However, Siglent (like many Chinese companies) is really bad at software, not just in regard of UX design but also in terms of quality. Most of their products I've seen are plagued from various software bugs, and while Siglent does come up with firmware updates these updates often fix one thing and break another.But then software issues are pretty common with all vendors in the price range you're looking at.Quote from: gazelle on December 29, 2014, 07:01:21 amYeah, the WaveAce Series is pretty bad (but then the software is 100% Siglent), and at the price LeCroy wants for these scopes it's simply an embarrassment.

author: drakke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 03:57:05 pm
content: Found this on Siglent forum:http://siglent.freeforums.org/sds1000cfl-cml-cnl-dl-models-main-features-t75.html--------------------- start -------------------------Siglent name this serie as SDS1000L (there was OLD SDS1000 serie also but this serie is totally obsolete and manufacturing finally stopped around 1Q2013)First, all these have 7" TFT, this is common for whole SDS1000L serie.Models, freq, max samplerate, max memory, ChannelsSDS1022DL 25MHz, 500MSa/s, 32k, 2ChSDS1052DL 50MHz, 500MSa/s, 32k, 2ChSDS1102DL 100MHz, 500MSa/s, 32k, 2ChSDS1202DL 200MHz, 500MSa/s, 32k, 2ChSDS1072CNL 70MHz, 1GSa/s, 40k, 2ChSDS1102CNL 100MHz, 1GSa/s, 40k, 2ChSDS1202CNL 200MHz, 1GSa/s, 5k, 2Ch (both channels 1GSa/s) *) (old?)SDS1202CNL+ 200MHz, 2GSa/s, ?, 2Ch (both channels 1GSa/s) *) (new?)*) lack of information or can not be exactly sureSDS1072CML 70MHz, 1GSa/s, 2M, 2ChSDS1102CML 100MHz, 1GSa/s, 2M, 2ChSDS1152CML 150MHz, 1GSa/s, 2M, 2ChSDS1072CFL 70MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 2ChSDS1102CFL 100MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 2ChSDS1202CFL 200MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 2Ch*SDS1302CFL 300MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 2Ch*SDS1074CFL 70MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 4ChSDS1104CFL 100MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 4ChSDS1204CFL 200MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 4Ch*SDS1304CFL 300MHz, 2GSa/s, 24k, 4Ch**1M/50ohm inputsDL modelsI do not explain more deep becouse 500MSa/s max and CNL model is nearly same price. Sampling speed max is 500MSa/s for single channel and 250MSa/s for two channels.CNL modelsFirst, they are just as CML exept 2M "LongMemory"All other things same. (just as use CML with normal memory)EXEPTION: 200MHz SDS1202CNL is special exeption in CNL serie.+ have also 50ohm inputs.- capturing memory: 5k separately for both channels (5k and 5k)+ max 1GSa/s separately for both channels- no 6M recorder.± input offset voltage setting limits 2mV-100mV: ±800mV, 102mV-10V: ±40V)There is so far lack of information about SDS1202CNL+ model. But what I have it looks like it is mostly same but some advantage in samplerate.CML modelsCML models have max 1GSa/s for single channel and max 500MSa/s for two channels if normal memory is in use. Equivalent sampling rate ("EqualTime" mode) is max 50GSa/s for repetitive signals. In this mode long memory not in use.Normal memory: (full speed memory)40k for 1GSa speeds if single channel use, for 500MSa or lower speeds memory is always 20k per channel.Long memory: (half speed memory)2M for single channel and 1+1M for two channels in use.For single channel max speed is 500MSa/sVertical inputs:1Mohm ±2%, 16pF±3pFMaximum Input voltage: 400V ?DC+AC PK-PK?1M? input impedance?X10??CAT IVertical system:Sensitivity:2mV - 10V (1-2-5 steps + fine adjust steps)(2mV BW limit 20MHz)Offset voltage setting limits:±1.6V: inputs range 2mV –200mV±40V: inputs range 206mV - 10VCh to Ch isolation better than 100:1 (channels level setting equal)Horizontal speed:70MHz models 5ns/div - 50s/div 100 and 150MHz models 2.5ns/div - 50s/divIf Trigger is in ALT mode: It have also dual timebase! This feature is very rare.It means that both channels timebase can separately adjust: Example you are looking two signals example 1kHz and 50MHz. You can adjust other channel for example 250us/div and other channel example for 10ns/div. Both channels trigger settings can adjust also independently in this mode.From 50ms/div and faster there can use Frame Record. It can record up to 2500 frames (TFT screen area frames) amount and interval is selectable. Playback mode and speed is also selectable.Scan (roll) mode can use between 100ms/div - 50s/div.In this mode there is available 6M recorder. It record capturing without breaks, continuously.With low speeds in this mode, recorder can also use USB flash disk for more long capturing.(I do not know exact speed where it works sure, it may depend also USB stick model)Horizontal speed setting steps 1 - 2.5 - 5 (no fine adjust between these steps)Maximum sampling speed (1GSa single channel or 500MSa/s double channel is available if horizontal speed is 50ns/div or faster.Trigger settings have quite rich of features, Of course normal modes: Auto, Normal, ALT, Video.Also source can be of course CH1, CH2 or EXT trig input or AC line (internal).There is so much details in trigger settings, they are best to read from available user manual.DL/CNL/CML have mostly all same.Math: All models have normal +,-,/,*, FFTResult vertical scale is adjustable.FFT system use 1024 sampling point, so base resolution is 512.FFT is related to sampling speed. If sampling speed is example 100MSa/s then full span is 50MHz (0-50MHz) this can zoom by 1, 2, 5 and 10x and zoomed area can horizontally adjust inside this used full span. Resolution is same as full span resolution.FFT is windowed. Upper window it show normal time base and lower window FFT or full screen so that FFT is overlay time base signal.More accurate FFT can of course do with external third parties PC softwares.(scope can store waveform directly common CSV format and example matlab can read it)It can store long memory or normal memory using CSV or waveform as DAV to internal or external memory and of course it can store screen picture to USB.Stored waveform can recall back to oscilloscope example from USB and it is just as captured single shot and with it can measure, zoom etc just as with all single shotted waveforms.There is PASS/FAIL also.You build "mask" and then you can select what to do if signal is not inside mask.It counts pass/fails event. Result can also produce signal to pass/fail output.Today new versions have also command interface with SCPI commands.It need National Instruments NI-VISA drivers.Commands descriptions can find in SDS1000 Programming manual.USB port (backside of scope) can set for direct print mode (and you can print directly using PictBridge compatible printers). There is not anymore setting "Computer", its name is now USBTMC. This is for use with computer. (If there is this setting, use EasyScopeX, If there is "Computer" you need use EasyScope 3 or compoatible and afaik, there is no SCPI support)In main features / user interface is same for DL/CNL/CML versions.Differencies are small. Main differencies are memory, samplerate(DL) and model related frequency bandwidth. (and SDS1202CNL many exeptions)CFL modelsThese are some amount different (and more expensive) but most of functions same.oscilloscope width is more. 2 channel models are also full width. Sampling speeds max in all models 2GSa/s. Memory in all modeld 24k for 2 channel group.Sample rate is also 2GSa/s max for 2 channel group.It means:2Channel model: 2GSa/s for 1 channel and 1GSa for both channels in use.4Channel model: it works as there is 2 pcs 2channel models for sampling speed.(Not confirmed officially or by my own tests (but it looks like this is how it works):Ch1 in use CH2 off: 2GSa/s + Ch3 in use Ch4 off: 2GSa/sCH1 and 2 in use : 1GSa/s both + Ch4 in use, Ch3 off, 2GSa/sAll channels in use, all have 1GSa/s)+ 200 and 300MHz models have also 50ohm inputs.+ CFL models have also LAN as default+ CFL models also have real time clock.--------------------- end -------------------------

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
content: Quote from: drakke on December 29, 2014, 03:57:05 pmThis is not Siglent's forum (they don't have an official forum). I think it belongs to rf-loop.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 06:31:18 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on December 29, 2014, 05:20:25 pmYes.Forum is totally unofficial.Also it is only randomly updated due to total lack of enough time.(only some sales related things more frequently, as price list in Finland. And Siglent I sell only in Finland without exeptions)aghp is my well known seller nickname in Finland. (in long form aghp55 after year ~2007)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 07:04:26 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on December 29, 2014, 05:20:25 pmhttp://siglent.blog.com/