Mid-range price LCR meter ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 01:00:30 pm
content: I have some cheap clone LCR meter, it's ok and has Kelvin probes, but 1 minute a 10uH inductor will be 9.481uH, and when I just hooked it up again 2 minutes later, no temperature change, now it's 9.225uH.For hobby use and for the foreseeable future, I'll be staying under 100-200MHz in RF projects. So I'm looking for a better handheld/or small, LCR meter, something middle tier, so not Fluke prices (I think they make LCR meters).Sometime this winter I'm getting the latest NanaVNA, IDK all the differences between those and LCR meters, but I'd like my LCR meter to goto a few MHz, not stop at 100kHz.Any recommendations ? Thanks

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 01:22:57 pm
content: The Hioki IM3536 we have goes to 8MHz, is a lab grade LCR meter, and expensive (~$4.7K) but don't know of another quality lab LCR meter that covers that range that's any cheaper. We also have another lab grade LCR meter, the Tonghui TH2830 excellent value at ~$1K, but only covers 100KHz, they have models that go higher in frequency and cost.Bottom line if you want correct repeatable results, then prepare for more expensive quality lab grade equipment.Best,

author: GnomeZA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 02:16:10 pm
content: I was looking into this also. I noticed ET4510 which "only" goes up to 100kHz so it won't do for your applications but I see they offer some higher frequency versions.ET3510 foronly$1560 ->https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004972609076.html

author: Dagobert1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 03:40:01 pm
content: I ordered the ADM from Mouser for $1050. With a Raspberry Pi, for example, a very good and fast LCR measurement system can be set up. The ADM2001B has very good technical data.https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/eval-admx2001.html#eb-overview

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 04:06:37 pm
content: That is an impressive module!!Would be a great project to turn this into a full fledged LCR meter with a custom 3D printed case and software development effort.Makes one wonder if this is the core technology/chips sets in some of the high end OEM LCR meters?Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 09:31:59 pm
content: QuoteIndeed, very interesting.DC, 0.2Hz....10Mhz, 0.05% relative accuracy, up to 2.4V output level...Hm-Hm...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 02:12:03 am
content: Compare to the Instek LCR-8230:https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/LCR-8230/LCR-Meters/Or the LCR-8250A:https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/LCR-8250A/LCR-Meters/Now that nice Hioko IM3536 seems very affordable!

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 02:43:01 am
content: Yeah, we did our homework before deciding on the Hioki IM3536, it ranges from 4Hz to 8MHz which covered our needs at the time. Now that we've developed a means to create plots, it seems like a bargain compared to other quality LCR meters covering this range. Only issue is the darn fan sounds like a jet engine!!Best,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 04:13:46 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on November 27, 2023, 02:43:01 amSwap it out before your next calibration. 😉

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 06:39:06 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 26, 2023, 09:31:59 pmMake note that is only a measurement module. It is not calibrated in any way. Hence 0.05%relativeaccuracy.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 07:02:05 am
content: Yes, I'm aware of that.

author: slugrustle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2023, 01:39:08 am
content: I've already got a frequency response analyzer (Cleverscope CS320A-FRA) that can go to 65MHz and do impedance sweeps on capacitors, inductors, etc. and am planning to buy one of the bench LCR meters in the GW Instek LCR-6000 series, probably the 100kHz unit, primarily for the accuracy of measurement (0.05%) and nice little fixtures.Does that make sense? Going for a very high frequency LCR meter seems to overlap in functionality with a frequency response analyzer, and I'm not as concerned about accuracy at high frequencies but rather the overall characteristic / shape of the impedance curve.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2023, 01:57:07 am
content: Quote from: slugrustle on November 28, 2023, 01:39:08 amYou should look at the Sourcetronic / TongHui LCR meters. They have the .05% basic accuracy also, but much better specs for the prices. If you can order from Sourcetronic, that's who I recommend more. The units are the same, the ST models are rebranded from the TH models. Look at the 2830 and 2832 models. The hardware is identical, and it is possible to make the 2830 think it's a 2832, but that's not bug free yet.Thanks,Josh

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 12:23:26 pm
content: These get a lot more expensive than I realized or remembered. A few hundred $ should be good enough for me. I see a lot of meter's like from BK precision that are nice but don't even go to 100kHz, but cost a few hundred.Who needs meters that are such a low freq?? When I think of LC stuff, I think of RF. Even a lot of bench meter's near $1000 only test upto 1k, 10k, 100kHz.So who would want an LCR meter only upto those frequencies ? I guess for now, what I have will have to do. I'm getting some computer upgrades, before I buy any new EE tech.Maybe I should also be looking at Impedance meters, or just the NanaVNA for now.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 12:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: MathWizard on November 30, 2023, 12:23:26 pmLCR meters are relatively low frequency devices that measure a number of parameters with high accuracy like 0.2% or even 0.02%. The focus is generally to get a reasonable measurement of the component at lower frequencies. Many can only measure a at a few discrete frequencies like 1 kHz, 10 kHz and 100 kHz. The frequencies are more to allow for different ranges rather than to simulate the exact frequency of interest. At 100 kHz they can often read down to the fraction of pF, which for many applications is enough, though obviously not for microwave circuits, for example. For low frequency circuits like switch mode power supplies this will be just fine. Also LCR meters are generally very quick to use with simple fixtures compared to the higher frequency solutions.There are other instruments, like impedance analyzers or network analyzers that are designed to sweep over a wide frequency range and get a generally less accurate measurement, in the case of network analyzers especially if their impdedance at the frequency of interest is far from 50 Ohm. These were traditionally much more expensive, though now with the various incarnations of the NanoVNA/LiteVNA etc some VNAs are cheaper than many LCR meters, but i wouldn't say one replaces the other. Try measuring an electrolyic cap with a VNA.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 03:08:38 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 30, 2023, 12:44:02 pmFrequency requirements depend on the DUT. Some LCR's go up to 50MHz, which I guess you could say is relatively low frequencies compared to other devices. I have no idea what makes them so expensive; but I would guess it's the lack of competition.If you look at the datasheets for specific components, you'll see that spec values are often measured in the MHz range.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 09:24:15 pm
content: That might give an idea why meters are exploding in price with every Mhz decade of measurement frequency:https://assets.testequity.com/te1/Documents/pdf/keysight/impedance-measurement-handbook.pdf

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 09:55:36 pm
content: I dunno, that seems like a lot of reading might be involved. 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2023, 10:01:25 pm
content: Up to 100khz this is still manageable and relatively inexpensive to realize, from Mhz it becomes more complex and therefore naturally more expensive.That's more or less what it says.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 01:11:44 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 30, 2023, 10:01:25 pmThat's what I assumed it would say. 😉However, I would bet up to $3.50 that the Instek 8200 series are all the same HW except for some FW crippling. Based on the logic of that doc, it must cost Instek more across the spectrum to make them.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 07:55:32 am
content: If you're considering used, there's the Hioki 3532 and the Chroma 11050 that are sometimes found at somewhat reasonable prices. If you want FRA analyzer territory, something like the AP Instruments model 200 has software that will still run on modern OSes (but also in a VM) and their newer model 300/310 has a bit more performance.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2023, 09:42:36 am
content: Yeah my LCR meter only has a few set test frequencies. So even though I'd like a better basic LCR meter, I am probably looking at the wrong equipment for what I want, which is the frequency response of 2-ports of some part, up to say FM radio range. Mainly for low voltage hobby stuff. I would like some computer plotting interface too.I need to read up on the difference between VNA's, spectrum analyzers, impedance A's. My scope can do FFT and Bode plot's, but for now I lack the cables to do it right.I would have no problem with a cheaper versions of this stuff like the NanoVNA, that's probably the next thing I'll get. I don't want another heavy 1980's machine tho either, just since I lack the space for them.Now I should make some test jigs for easier more consistent part testing with my scope and AWG.