amplification via shorting batteries - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: shitzo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 10:45:14 am
content: So I've been working hard at electronics for a long time, then took a huge break for a long time cause I was really sick. But I'm back and I think I've got a circuit that works for an amplifier without a transistor. It can be made with transistors as well and it still may have a use for amplifying really low voltages/currents, because it has no activation voltage, it doesn't act as a switch, it actually repeats the signal then adds it back together again.It requires a form of constant current to work, so u either get that from a transistor, or you can get it from the raw power limit of a battery when its shorting.So how it works was very tricky, there was a crack I could take advantage of in the form of a chain of "power subtractors" which actually loses volts compoundingly going up in! So at the end of the chain its actually 0 volts, but it should still work.Then it connects to a ring modulator each new segment up the ladder, in the form of two back to back batteries, and the chain deactivates and activates the ring modulators from escaping out the resistors, which protect the system from shorting and malfunctioning as I collect the power back together for the amplification.Its not an increase in voltage (Although there probably is a version that does increase volts.) Its an increase in current, so you have to make sure your load is right on the output to actually get the amps happening, so if u have 5 segments adding together, its best to go through 5 speakers cause u need to drop resistance on the output to make up for the lack of increased volts.Usually an amp should increase voltage, there may be a way to connect the chain segments in series to get an increase in voltage, and more, but I was so sick I got to this point and then progress on it halted.Its tested in falstad, but without a decent current limiting battery source It was difficult to simulate it, so that made it harder for me too.The cool thing is all it needs is batteries, and so transistors are a little hard to make, but batteries are alot easier to DIY, so if u were to make an amp without going to the shop to buy stuff, this could be a cool option.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 10:55:20 am
content: what is this, some kind of hallucination by an AI on drugs?

author: shitzo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 10:59:23 am
content: Its an amplifier, it works for music, and inside computer logic, or on the actuators of a robot.You put the signal to be amplified at the bottom, start of the chain, I didn't indicate it in the picture sorry.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 11:28:40 am
content: Quote from: shitzo on April 28, 2025, 10:59:23 amit's complete nonsense

author: shitzo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 11:38:02 am
content: what makes u say that? U dont understand it.Its a little tricky to read the circuit because it is unorthodox.The chain has 2 states, one toggle low, one toggle high, it toggles from the bottom where the input signal goes in, and this puts power into the "ring modulators" which segregate the current. on the right which deactivates them, then they add up in parallel for the amplification.It makes sense.Theres 2 batteries on these "ring modulator segregators" cause this stops excess power going into the chain, they go in back to back, so they phase cancel and not cause the chain to fire badly from excess current going into it.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 11:49:01 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on April 28, 2025, 11:28:40 amI think he needs a turbo encabulator.

author: shitzo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 12:03:20 pm
content: U guys will never turn out anything new, like this. Just stuck in the past buying your parts from china, getting your arse kicked by monkeys.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 12:06:16 pm
content: This sounds a little bit familiar....?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-own-original-oscillator/

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 12:09:42 pm
content: Quote from: madires on April 28, 2025, 11:49:01 amI think he needs medication.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 12:11:34 pm
content: I'm struggling with the schematic. I don't recognize anything on it as being a battery, or a switch, etc. Just wires connecting to many +/- symbols....

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 12:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: shitzo on April 28, 2025, 11:38:02 amso complete nonsense with more word salad

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 12:40:29 pm
content: Time to flag it as spam. There is no 'ring modulator' present. As another poster stated it is just a bunch of + and - symbols connected as nonsense. You want us to believe this bullocks idea has some merit but you can't even draw proper symbols for a battery. Nice click bait from a troll!!! Sorry, try again tomorrow with a workable free energy video!!! Bye!! By the way chucklehead, ring modulators have active parts or at the very least passive parts like four diodes which could be considered active since they acquire active energy from the drive signals. You have displayed no such components which are required for even the simplest of 'ring modulators'. Digital ring modulators are a different animal completely and you show none of those.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 01:03:49 pm
content: Quote from: shitzo on April 28, 2025, 11:38:02 amA ring modulator is a type of double-balanced mixer, used to modulate one time varying signal with another and output the sum and difference terms. There is nothing in your diagram that even looks like a recognisable component, and certainly no ring modulator.

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 01:14:51 pm
content: I suggest no further engagement with the OP.You're not going to successfully reason with someone who is either irrational, or intentionally yanking your chain. If it's the former, by continuing to engage, we're probably either just feeding a paranoia (that they are onto something big but "the establishment" are against them), or a delusional sense of their own capabilities. Either way, it won't help them.The OP said it themselves - they've been 'unwell'. Read into that what you may.

author: shitzo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 03:26:43 pm
content: That goes to show how you know bugger all about electronics. a ring modulator can be anything that multiplies the signal.Now heres another thing you dont know.a scalar and gate is also a ring modulator, but unfortunately your too old and have run out of time to develop any talent at all to get anywhere in your life.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 03:32:03 pm
content: This is the ultimate high end audio amplifier. Only wires. I like it. But can I also subtract free energy from the batteries when playing country music?

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 04:21:15 pm
content: I have never been South of the equator perhaps it's different down under?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 05:47:46 pm
content: Quote from: shitzo on April 28, 2025, 03:26:43 pmSo what do you know?"Multiply" does not equal "amplify". Multipliers and amplifiers are different analog hardware circuits."Scalar" is a mathematical term, "scaler" is a bit of logical hardware."Here's" has an apostrophe, as does "don't"."You're too old" is an insult, "your too old" means you haven't learned how to spell yet."Ring modulator" is a specific type of electronic circuit, not a general wish to do stuff that is physically impossible.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 07:18:56 pm
content: This "topic" has been moved to the dodgy shit section, debate it at your own risk to your sanity or just leave it alone. To the OP, put any more of this crap around and you get banned

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 07:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: madires on April 28, 2025, 11:49:01 amI'd say aninterocitorwould do the trick, my favorite mythical sci-fi device.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 07:49:19 pm
content: QuoteNah wot you need is an orgone accumulator as it makes you feel greater, its a back brain simulator and a cerebral vibrator,only down side its no social integrator

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 07:50:49 pm
content: I'd say the OP is a bit late, there is prior "art":

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 08:05:30 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on April 28, 2025, 07:35:58 pmAt the beginning of the film "This Island Earth", the aliens send an alien heathkit first to see if the earthlings are smart enough to use an interocitor.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 08:40:53 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 28, 2025, 07:50:49 pmHeh; reminds me of the idea my nerd friend and I came up with back in junior high:We were sure this would revolutionize Detroit and make us rich.Well, at least at first:

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 08:59:34 pm
content: You could make some kind of device that essentially uses something like a giant gramophone with a gigantic lever to wiggle contacts to make some kind of walsh thing if you had some very ideal materials I thinkhigher amplitude = connect more batteries, but it would inherently be a square wave generator, like a DAC without filterKind of like a analog relay. I wonder if that is what he had in mind when he drew thisIts kind of interesting to think about as some sort of mechanical pulse generator.. so the number of series connected cells is proportional to the angle of a lever. I am pretty sure most people thought of this when they wondered how the HELL something can make a 'signal' if the total of their electronics knowledge is battery and light bulb (1st grade).. its the old "press on it harder to connect more voltage sources" special 'control switch'. Perhaps its used in those old toy lead acid cars for children? 2 batteries for low and high speed?Shorting the cells that are all series connected could work as well, possibly as the most wasteful control system everActually I bet the thing I am thinking of exists as some sort of odd ball MEMS low power impulse detector or something, just without batteries.. seems like a kind of extension of ordinance related switches (which were purely mechanical but they want batteries in bombs now).. micro mechanical ADC or DAC. Military probobly loves this

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:11:20 pm
content: Amplification without active devices?I'll stick with my magnetic amplifiers thanks.X

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:23:40 pm
content: Sometime around 1960, on the "Ask Mr Wizard" educational TV program, Mr Wizard gave a succinct explanation of an amplifier: the input signal controls the active device to supply output power from the power supply.He didn't treat magamps, and I don't remember if his only example was a vacuum tube.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:30:33 pm
content: Quote from: Xena E on April 28, 2025, 09:11:20 pmParametric amplifiers, anyone? They have some nice properties.https://www.eeeguide.com/parametric-amplifier/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_parametric_amplifierhttps://www.eeeguide.com/parametric-amplifier-types/

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 28, 2025, 09:30:33 pmAre those RF-only thingies?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:52:14 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on April 28, 2025, 09:46:31 pmParametric amplifiers for RF usually get their power supplied as high-frequency AC. Since the active device is capacitive, it does not contribute noise directly.For DC applications, parametric amplifiers (using varicap diodes) had interesting properties in Op Amps: very low bias current and extremely high common-mode range.http://www.philbrickarchive.org/pat3405366.pdfhttps://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/components/article/21802868/an-amateurs-view-on-the-p2-part-1https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/analog/article/21801819/whats-all-this-varactor-input-amplifier-stuff-anywayhttps://ez.analog.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-wikis-components-files/00-00-00-00-96/6866.attachment.pdf

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 10:01:26 pm
content: Quote

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 10:17:15 pm
content: The horn is an impedance-matching device from the needle-driven diaphragm to the ambient air.No power gain is involved.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 11:16:02 pm
content: Telephones (1861.., first patent 1876..), were around before transistors and (amplifying) valves/tubes were invented.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_telephoneI think the early ones, used carbon-microphones, whose resistance changes, from sound impulses. Essentially 'amplifying' those sounds, which could then drive some sort of speaker, at the other telephone. Perhaps some considerable distance away.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 11:35:39 pm
content: The carbon microphone, which allowed the use of a battery to power the circuit, was invented by Edison (with others) and could be used as an actual amplifier when coupled to a dynamic driver (similar to a loudspeaker).Bell’s earlier telephone used a current-carrying wire, or a moving needle into a liquid, that worked with a battery.The carbon microphone could handle reasonable currents, and was the standard telephone “transmitter” until the end of standard landline technology.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 12:31:02 am
content: Wellll, using your earlier definition of an amplifier (which is a device where "the input signal controls the active device to supply output power from the power supply"), wouldn't a carbon microphone qualify as an amplifier? That's essentially what a carbon mike does, yes?Or is it just a transducer?Let's see how finely we can splitthishair, shall we?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 02:44:26 am
content: I would partially define an amplifier as having an output a larger version of a changing input that is the same type as the output. So by that definition a carbon "microphone" that is driven by a moving coil would be an amplifier, but a carbon microphone driven by acoustic signals would not. I would also call the hydraulic controls on an excavator an amplifier because it uses a small force from your hand to control a very large force at the digging end.Just my opinion.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 02:52:40 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on April 29, 2025, 02:44:26 amI like that distinction.Seconded.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 03:30:20 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on April 29, 2025, 12:31:02 amIt's a transducer capable of amplification: avoid split ends.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 03:39:35 am
content: Quote from: nali on April 28, 2025, 12:06:16 pmYep, he is krayvonk who was previously banned.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 09:29:30 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on April 29, 2025, 02:44:26 amAn amplifier should have power gain, otherwise a simple transformer could meet your definition. Also the input and output types can be different e.g. the transimpedance amplifier.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 02:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on April 29, 2025, 09:29:30 amYes.In order to have power gain, there must be a power supply of some type connected to the amplifier to supply the higher power at the output.Ordinarily, the power supply provides more power to the circuit than can be obtained from the output.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 09:38:46 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 28, 2025, 11:35:39 pmThat is the only bit I must disagree with. By the 1990s (possibly late '80s) FET-based drop-in replacements for the standard carbon microphone were being fitted to the older models of phone here in the UK. By then, no new models of phone were using carbon microphones.The reason for the drive to replace the old carbon mics with FET-based is that carbon mics were notoriously unreliable. They became noisy due to clustering of the carbon granules, made much worse when the mic was subject to voltage spikes.As "standard landlines technology" is only now being phased out, it's more accurate to say that carbon microphones were being replaced by FET-based electret microphones around 30 years before the end of standard landline technology.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 10:14:45 pm
content: Shure made the 104C carbon microphone for voice communications until very recently.https://pubs.shure.com/view/guide/104C/en-US.pdfIt is a push-to-talk hand-held microphone, like in the old "Highway Patrol" TV series.The nominal price is about $90, but my usual suspects do not have any in stock.[edit: removed bad link]

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 10:16:57 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on April 29, 2025, 09:38:46 pmI think (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that by "standard telephone" he was referring to the equipment that was provided to customers by the phone company itself, which so far as I remember still used carbon mikes right up until the end. (Referring to the Western Electric sets and similar.)If you bought your own 'phone back then, it probably had something other than an old-fashioned carbon mike, either a FET or dynamic microphone, since it contained electronics and wasn't limited to the standard phone configuration.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 10:18:25 pm
content: That's right: I still have a Western Electric rotary-dial telephone that the 'phone company forgot to pick up, and it has a carbon microphone.None of its replacements as a landline had carbon.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 12:07:37 am
content: When condenser microphones started to become commonplace in landline telephones, you could easily tell. The voice quality of people ringing in to radio stations began to improve quite a bit.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 12:24:29 am
content: Quote from: shitzo on April 28, 2025, 11:38:02 amThe poor spelling, grammar and punctuation are big clues.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 12:36:56 am
content: I have come to the conclusion that this message board is in need of more trolls as they can provoke interesting discussions and lively fruitful debates. Let me switch on the VPN for while.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 10:14:13 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 29, 2025, 10:14:45 pmUnless you want us to somehow access your (windows, presumably) hard disk.Here is the real link (it seems):https://pubs.shure.com/view/guide/104C/en-US.pdf

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 10:47:28 am
content: Quote from: shitzo on April 28, 2025, 12:03:20 pmHow about drawing a proper schematic so we can actually see what you have in mind. Your existing diagram is impossible to interpret.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 10:58:40 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on April 30, 2025, 10:47:28 amThey have gone and won't reply. They have been banned.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 02:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on April 30, 2025, 10:14:13 amOops: removed the bad link from my post.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 09:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on April 30, 2025, 10:58:40 amThen the moderators should close this thread.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 09:55:53 pm
content: yeah its a bit creepy when it has this ... .aztec? or perhaps middle roman vibe where there is a public execution and then you have a little partymight not be the best place to hold further congregation

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 11:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on April 30, 2025, 09:00:10 pmWe generally don't close threads that have significant input from others just because the OP was banned, because people might want to still discuss whatever topic it was.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 11:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: temperance on April 30, 2025, 12:36:56 amDo it and your account will be banned, along with every other account your can possibly create.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 12:57:00 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on April 30, 2025, 09:00:10 pmAs Dave has just explained, it makes sense to keep this thread open.Also, I think (as they seem to have a very distinctive and unique, posting style/themes) they have already made something like five or ten different accounts, so far. All/most of which have been banned. In addition to user(s), already mentioned in this thread, such as: CapernicusTwo examples, follow:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=762538robowaffe:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=957571

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 03:37:43 am
content: Quote from: CaptDon on April 28, 2025, 12:40:29 pmNot necessarily. I would encourage the OP to build this circuit using, say, a set of 500 CCA car batteries, and then post a video of it to YouTube so we can all experience it.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 03:54:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 30, 2025, 11:30:25 pmIf there's one thing this site is great for it's generating interesting discussions in random threads unrelated to the original topic, so I think this is a good policy. And even in the case of the OP, as long as their posts are confined to the dodgy tech section they at least provide some amusement.Come to think of it, I wonder how long it'd take a thread that starts withRossini's laundry listto turn into a discussion of the pros and cons of different ways of doing microstrip transmission lines?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 05:20:07 am
content: well I had to move the thread to keep it open.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 02:26:11 pm
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on May 01, 2025, 03:54:44 amSometimes I think that we, and yes I am included, have a certain Stockholm syndrome towards trolls.For one thing we despise them for hijacking the board for their own twisted purposes, but on the other hand, we are attracted to their threads and find it irresistible to reply to their posts. Even though a little voice in your brain is telling you: Don’t! Don’t push the reply button! Be strong, resist the urge, you can’t do it!

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 03:05:29 am
content: Unijunction, thanks for suggestion about REPLY BUTTON:How about having an emoji type look, as a REPLY button face, getting all screwy and dopey looking face, to convey the thought on possible reply: uttering "Don't press it !"...followed by disappointment / cursing, if you do press reply.