Punching Holes in Jiffy Boxes - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 02:43:52 am
content: I need to cut some holes for RJ45 sockets in both ends of about 300 jiffy boxes, and since there will be other similar projects in the future I thought it might be worth making a tool to do the job.I can design and build something from scratch, but I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas for re-purposing something readily and cheaply available to reduce effort required. I'm thinking of something I can use as a hand press that I can make a die for. Since it's only being used for approximately 1.5mm of ABS it doesn't need to be super strong.Edit:I just realised I didn't explain what I'm actually looking for.I can make the die without any problems, but I'm looking for something to use as a press. The big hydraulic floor presses are way overkill for this sort of thing.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 03:26:38 am
content: Have you tried punching the plastic to make sure the box won't shatter / split? Especially if the cutout is near an edge.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 03:30:33 am
content: For my wooden boxes I like to use big bits to drill holes and then use a hand file to do the edges. You can get it fairly neat.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 03:42:09 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on September 06, 2012, 03:26:38 amYes. If the die is shaped properly it will shear the plastic.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 03:44:46 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on September 06, 2012, 03:30:33 amThe drill and file technique is what I use when there are only a few required, but I don't fancy doing that for this project.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 03:54:14 am
content: I know Mouser have panel punches for D type connectors and I'm sure I've seen square and round punches there as well.Any holes I've needed in plastic boxes, I've used my mill to cut. I wouldn't like to do hundreds that way without a CNC mill though.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 04:03:45 am
content: Quote from: GeoffS on September 06, 2012, 03:54:14 amI'll have a look. Thanks.QuoteActually, I just found this:http://www.rolanddga.com/products/milling/imodela/It's very cheap, but I'm sure extremely limited as well.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 04:16:05 am
content: This looks interesting if it wasn't for the parallel port interface. I wonder if it works with USB->LPT Printer adaptors.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-3040-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-yy-/110695858076?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item19c5fcbf9c

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 04:33:55 am
content: Big hydraulic floor presses are handy to have. And cheap I would reckon. Over here you can buy one for just a couple hundred dollars.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 04:39:24 am
content: Quote from: poptones on September 06, 2012, 04:33:55 amBut take up more room than I feel comfortable with. I only have a very small workshop.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 04:58:43 am
content: A small hand press and punch set will work. If you are able to make the hardened dies then making up a lever operated punch press should be no problem to do.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 05:03:55 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 06, 2012, 04:58:43 amThat's what I was hoping for. That someone might know of a suitable press that would save me a few hours making. I'm always for using something already available wherever practical.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 05:10:07 am
content: Look for a local company that CNC mills your boxes. Punching will not really work. The bits will get dull at some point and start doing real damage. And even with sharp bits you won't get nice edges. You anyhow get invisible damage on the edges. Depending on the environment where the product will later be used this can become a real problem later.If you don't find a local company, look for an enclosure manufacturer who offers customization. E.g. Polycase.This is one of those things where you will curse yourself for ever having the idea to do 300 boxes on your own if you do it on your own.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:11:33 am
content: I'm thinking a hand operated Arbor Press might be what you're looking for. Would fit on a bench, and isn't very expensive either.Example:http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-TON-CAST-IRON-BENCH-MOUNT-MOUNTED-HAND-OPERATED-ARBOR-BEARING-PRESS-TOOL-/280881680974?pt=Clamps_Vises&hash=item4165da524e

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:12:22 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on September 06, 2012, 05:10:07 amUnfortunately, there's no one like that within 1700km.QuoteQuite possibly, but I have managed to do a lot of things people said the same thing about over the last 30 years of my career.I do use external companies for larger projects, but for small projects the lead time is as much a problem as the cost. Sometimes I might only need 5 or 10 units.That small Chinese CNC mill I posted the link to earlier (or something similar) might actually be a solution to this and a lot of similar things I often need to do.I often spend a lot of time doing things by hand, and although the customer pays for the labour, I'd much rather not do so much tedious work. Sounds like more fun programming a machine to do it, even if the time saving is not huge.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:16:50 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 06, 2012, 06:11:33 amThat's certainly cheap. Doesn't look like it has enough leverage, but at that price it'd be worth getting one to experiment with, anyway.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:25:00 am
content: If you were considering spending $900 on that tonka toy roland - maybe you should look at a few other options -http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:34:04 am
content: Quote from: notsob on September 06, 2012, 06:25:00 amI've been looking at a few similar machines. This one has a slightly larger z axis:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCB-engraving-Cmode-3040CH80-WIN2000-XP-/320869378381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab54e294dBut that one you posted does look nicer, overall.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:58:27 am
content: If you haven't seen it , have a look at this great review by metalphreak on a Chinese CNChttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/china-cnc-6040-setup-testing-review/

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 07:19:59 am
content: One of the guys that works for me has a CNC machine at home. He mills holes and cut-outs in boxes for us occasionally.That eBay one looks like one of the ones that I've heard people refer to as useless.The Roland one is reviewed in this month's Silicon Chip magazine and the working area is tiny. The lack of standard mill bits is also a problem I think.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 07:23:19 am
content: The problem with the CNC routers mentioned (3020, 6040) is limited Z axis travel, under 100mmThere will not be enough room to fit a jiffy box under the Z axis for cutting unless it's very small jiffy box.I have a 6040 like metalphreaks and once set up properly, it's very good but does suffer from the limited Z travel.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 07:47:09 am
content: If you can make the press tooling what you need is an arbor press, they are cheap new and fast to operate compared to hydraulic presses they also weigh far less and will sit on your bench top they are also useful for pushing bushes etc.I found an example I am sure that ther must be similar available in Australia as most of these machines now come from the far east.http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-arbor-press--ap0-prod21214/?src=froogle

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 08:02:15 am
content: Machineryhouse have those arbor presses - I think they have stores in most Australian capitalshttp://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Search?S=arbor+press

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 08:33:20 am
content: If we're talking about ABS maybe you could ask some company doing advertising stuff (banners etc). They often have CO2 plotters inhouse. Few tens of watts of CO2 laser should do the thing.CNC mill is a nice idea, especially that abs is soft material, and tool wouldn't wear that much. But huge downside is that you can't really make real square. It will always have corners rounded. Ofcourse corners can be overcut to accomodate a socket which is square/rectangular but then - you'd have to use small diameter endmill and those break easily.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 08:39:44 am
content: Has anyone ever tried using a mortice drill bit (for woodworking square tenon holes) on ABS plastic?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 08:48:42 am
content: Quote from: Mike Warren on September 06, 2012, 06:16:50 amI'd think a 1/2 ton unit would be more than sufficient for plastic (a hand operated nibbler cuts PCB and project boxes; ~200 - 250mm pliers). But if you want larger, they are available (seen 5 ton units that are single pull, and larger than that which use a ratcheting mechanism). Better brands exist, such as Dake, but those are a fair bit more expensive (i.e. $600USD or so s 3 ton Dake).If you're dead set on a CNC mill though (highly useful due to flexibility), can you offer a working area spec for all 3 axis?Quote from: notsob on September 06, 2012, 08:39:44 amHadn't even thought of that.Regular wood drill bits certainly work, so I'd think this would as well.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 09:14:45 am
content: If you are worried that an arbor press will not have enough leverage you could go for a fly press but they tend to be heavy but they go up to large sizes that will punch holes in 16mm steel. But the go quite cheap second hand as many company's wont use them any more due to health and safety fears and finding workers willing to put the effort into using them. As a by I one came across a man in a shed with a fly press making half inch washers, that is all he did half inch washers from sheet steel no other size. he had arms like Popeye or a lobster as the right was bigger from pulling the fly all day.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 12:31:29 pm
content: I'm thinking that the mill idea might be nice. I can see a lot of other uses for it.I am a bit concerned that trying to mill ABS might cause problems with melting edges, but as long as the speed is variable enough I guess it would work. Not much point using a mill if I still need to spend 10 minutes cleaning up the edges.Does anyone else here use this class of mill on ABS?The other issue is the rounded edges, but I think about how small a diameter bit is often used for routing PCBs. About a 1mm radius (2mm bit) wouldn't be too much of a problem.Looking at the Chinese mills, it looks like it wouldn't be too hard to modify for an extra 20mm of height. It would just lose the low end which could be regained with a platform on the bed.

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 12:40:09 pm
content: For what its worth, The company I worked at previously used to use a fly press to punch holes in plastic boxes (not sure which plastic type, but the boxes were made by Bopla I think). They did literally 1000's of them with no problems with the tools wearing out.

author: vl400
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 12:49:17 pm
content: I have cut aluminium cases using a router and carbide bit with excellent results, would need to experiment on plastic as it will likely melt easily. I made up a jig on some MDF with the router mounted vertical from underneath with bit above the board. Some more MDF pieces are mounted to the top and act as guides - used the router to initially cut slots in the base so the guides are adjustable. It was then really quick and easy to just drop the case on to the router bit and move it between the guides to cut the shape.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 02:30:26 pm
content: Quote from: Mike Warren on September 06, 2012, 06:12:22 amWhere are you in Oz?The company I used to work for in Perth needed to make some "pretend" 2 way radios as part of a mining simulator.They used to buy the boxes then send them out somewhere where they made cutouts for the Channel knob & "volume" control.Unfortunately,they didn't make a cutout for the "D" socket.If I remember correctly,it was laser cut,as were a lot of stainless panels used elsewhere on the simulator.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 06:25:21 pm
content: I have a nibbler and i ain't afraid to use itNah joking, usually i drill a really fat hole first with a 8mm bit then use a grinding bit to make a square hole followed by some filingbut i noticed one thing: the models you guys show are like the old CNC models ...these are the new ones : (Warning! Use Gtranslate)http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.17.19.742203&id=15543653512&http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.17.17.4fee4c&id=19078060311&http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.17.10.da84b8&id=19150828323&http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.17.8.da84b8&id=14931126580&They seem to have a shiftable "z-axis" now

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 07:33:47 pm
content: Just reminding of how i do my square holes..Its very easy to trim the blade to excat with to suit you needs.. or make bigger holes.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/cutting-square-holes-for-instruments/msg108707/#msg108707

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 08:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 06, 2012, 02:30:26 pmCairns.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 08:52:01 pm
content: Anyone have an opinion on this one?http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-MILLING-MACHINE-H80mm-/280758953475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item415e89a603The advantages are that it's already in Australia, and it's 4 axis.They make the claim"The Rotation Spindle Motor is able to operating for extended periods, which strengthens the processing", FWIW.The only thing that stands out to me is that the spindle motor looks very different to all the other cheap CNC mills I've been looking at.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2012, 11:11:37 pm
content: The working are is a bit small at 400x300, the Z axis is only 80mm.There's not much info about the spindle other than a maximum bit size of 2.5mm.The bigger model, the 6040 has a larger working area (580x380 approx) and a Z axis height of around 100mm. The spindle takes ER11 collets so cutting bits up to 7mm are possible. Most are not sold with a 4th axis but you can pick one up for about $250. Lots on eBay or check here.http://www.carving-cnc.com/

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 12:13:46 am
content: Quote from: GeoffS on September 06, 2012, 11:11:37 pmI can't see me ever needing more than 300 x 400 and I like that it takes up less bench space than the 6040. This one seems to go up to 5mm bit size:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-AXIS-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-MILLING-DRILLIN-G-DEVICE-H80mm-Updated-/110721325414?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item19c7815966QuoteIt's unfortunate there isn't a smaller unit in this range with a greater than 80mm Z axis. I would like to be able to get 90mm or even 100mm objects under it. From the photos it does look like they may be able to be modified for another 10mm or so, but I'm not sure without seeing one in the flesh.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 06:10:32 am
content: Quote from: Mike Warren on September 06, 2012, 08:52:01 pmStill the same one but there are some versions with water cooled spindle motors but the english is just hilarious!Just some google translate copypasta

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 11:38:36 am
content: Quote from: Mike Warren on September 06, 2012, 08:38:16 pmAnd I thoughtwewere supposed to be isolated!!I meant to say in the previous posting,that they did the LED display cutout,too.I suppose the nearest laser cutters to you would be down in Brissie,the same as the other methods.I guess you already have the boxes,otherwise you could maybe order them from a supplier in Brisbane,to be delivered to someone there who could do the job,then send them on to you,but it would add cost,& you would really have to trust them!

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 12:18:15 pm
content: There's a possibility that my guy can cut them for you. Would be cheaper than a commercial place for sure.I know you wanted to do it yourself if possible, but if there's a deadline looming it might be the way to go.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 01:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 07, 2012, 11:38:36 amYou have no idea...QuotePerhaps it's just bad luck, but I always seem to end up spending a lot of time whenever I get someone else to do jobs for me from a distance. For some previous projects I did go to Brisbane to interface with the companies making the PCBs and cases, but they were much larger projects.I also do a lot of very small run projects (sometimes one-off) so having a setup myself will save time in the long run and hopefully produce a better result than hand nibbling and drilling and filing.I've pretty much decided to go for a CNC mill, probably a 4-axis 6040 with a water-cooled spindle motor.

author: Mike Warren
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 01:29:42 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on September 07, 2012, 12:18:15 pmThe deadline is pretty far off at this stage. The customer hasn't even finalised the complete spec.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 02:09:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mike Warren on September 06, 2012, 08:52:01 pmThat thing uses a drill chuck style flexible shaft handpiece for the spindle. I don't think you would be happy. Unless all your work is miniature boxes forget anything this small. What if you need a cutout on the end of a 100mm long box which is still very small? Unless you need another major hobby/distraction in your life forget about getting a cheap router or mill like this. The machine itself is just the tip of the iceberg. You need cutting tools, equipment to hold your parts, learn the software, etc.I am not trying to be negative here, I love machining and have been doing it for 47 years as a living and hobby. If you really can justify needing machining capabilities for your work then fine, go for it, but get equipment that will really do the range of work you do without the equipment becoming a project in itself.

author: bombledmonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 03:32:20 pm
content: Do you have the boxes already? If not, try asking the distributor or supplier directly if they offer custom services. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the prices coming out of the customs department at Digi-Key for quantities <100. You have to talk to one of their Applications guys to get a quote, but they'll walk you through the process.

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 03:39:15 pm
content: I have produced over 50 ABS boxes with holes in them in a snap with my Fein, as i mentioned in my previous replay..Its fast, accurate and a much cheaper solution. It cuts metal, plastic and wood.Besides the Fein itself is a very nice tool for other cut, polish, grain purpose's.Just youtube fein...But that just my humble opinion..

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 05:42:08 pm
content: There is another way to punch holes. You drill a hole in the center of where you want your hole and have a bolt through the center of the punch and die set all you then have to do is pull up the bolt and the punch cuts the hole. used to be able to buy them like that for making valve holder mounting holes, I still have one or two somewhere in the shed.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2012, 07:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on September 07, 2012, 05:42:08 pm'Q-Max' is the brand I've used for cutting holes for panel meters, worked surprisingly well. I think they mainly do circular ones but some square etc.