another - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:09:16 am
content: Q

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:28:11 am
content: Sorry to give you the bad news, but the fact that it has a transistor tester socket is a dead giveaway that it is not a meter you would want. When a useless feature like that is added it is a sure thing the meter is not designed or built very well. It looks like a MiniPa to me but I can't be sure. In China, they even copy the copies.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:41:47 am
content: Took a bit, but I believe it ishttp://www.holdpeak.com/en/introduce.htmlhttp://www.holdpeak.com/en/displayproduct001.html?proID=248700

author: wiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 07:25:10 am
content: It might not be the one you'd want for high power circuits, but the hFE feature can be _very_ handy on the bench!

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 07:47:31 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 21, 2014, 06:28:11 amSigh, here we go again. There is a certain "meter elitism" that goes around, not just here, but in EE in general, it's ugly, and it needs to stop.It will be perfectly acceptable for 95% of hobbiests, transistor test socket or not.It will be accurate enough. It will be precise enough. It will be reliable enough. And it will be safe enough.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 08:13:22 am
content: Very average meter, with a few redeeming features, selling for 100$ in Australia. Real value should be around 50$, at most.Has the CE marking, but doesn't comply with Euro regulations because of the 250V fuses.Pretty white version:

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 09:38:27 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 21, 2014, 07:47:31 amWhen it comes to measuring values I've seen $4 multimeters that are as accurate as Flukes.Would I connect one to the local substation to take a reading? No, but for hobby use, working with USB power and batteries, why not...?Seems better (to me) to buy a few $4 multimeters while you're saving up for a Fluke than a single $50 multimeter thinking it will last the rest of your life.Quite often you need to use two multimeters simultaneously (or even more). What do the elitists do then?Having said that ... there's a massive variance between $4 multimeters, even between meters that look identical on the outside. Some are clones of a clone of a clone of a $4 multimeter. It's quite incredible the lengths they go to to save 0.001 cents. I should do a teardown.

author: wiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 09:48:11 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 21, 2014, 09:38:27 am2 x 8050 + 1 x 8060 + Keithley 177 + Keithley 192 + Prema 6001 + Solartron 7075 + Tillquist 4??The one I had with hFE broke down and it was to cheap for me to bother fixing...

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 12:44:10 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 21, 2014, 07:47:31 amI agree. This comment about the transistor tester socket flies around every so often. And I know why: Fluke has never put one on theirs. There. That's the reason. It's Fluke fan-boys fanning flames.I have used the hFE test on my (cheapest) meters, and it has proven to be very useful.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 01:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: GEuser on October 21, 2014, 09:43:38 amBurden voltage would be huge. You'd probably drop at least 2V in the meter.For currents like that just use the 10A range, most meters have 2 decimal places for that. Does it really matter if it's 800mA or 805mA?(Itmightmatter, it's just not very likely that it matters...)Quote from: GEuser on October 21, 2014, 09:43:38 amThat's why you always start on the 10A range and move downwards.I did a little multimeter workshop last week and told people to bring their own meters from home. Not ONE of them had a working fuse on the mA range, including the guy who brought a Fluke.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 01:23:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 21, 2014, 09:38:27 amI buy used Flukes for 4-20 dollars each. I've purchased cheap 4$ meters, they practically fall apart. Elitist = not wanting to waste money on crap?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 01:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on October 21, 2014, 01:23:24 pmI wish I could do that...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 01:55:38 pm
content: Quote from: GEuser on October 21, 2014, 01:36:04 pmYou should get a Fluke. $12 per fuse will soon get you on the straight and narrow

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 02:33:55 pm
content: The Fluke (Tektronix) 185 doesn't have a mA fuse. The meter switches ranges automatically between 500mA and 10A with a best resolution of 10nA.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 04:01:40 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 21, 2014, 07:47:31 amI don't think that pointing out a commonly known fact about meters is elitism. It may be an OK meter but no one here has any experience with it to say, and the first thing I see is it has a transistor socket and I am very suspicious of its quality. The fact that it has that tester means it probably couldn't meet any CAT rating standards. I can see from the images it does not have a CAT rating at all and is only protected on the inputs to 250VDC. It is definitely a meter only for electronics and should be kept away from the wall socket and anything high energy. It is not safe enough for all round use and any owner should be informed instead of just letting them think they have something safe. Information is power.So if I were to recommend a meter less expensive as an alternative to this one, I am being elitist?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 04:33:53 pm
content: The booklet says that it is rated as CAT II 1000V as per IEC(6)1010, but should really be downgraded to CAT II 250V, at best.Overload protection on the capacitance and resistance selections is only good up to 250V.The hFE constant test current is listed as 10uA.The Gossen 30M which has an opening in the enclosure for an isolated mains connection has a safety rating of CAT II 600V.The HoldPeak meter has a lamp in the selector switch, which may bring another safety issue to the fore.

author: MrsR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 04:54:16 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 21, 2014, 07:47:31 amHave to agree with you there. If you are testing Hv AC circuits I would use a top quality one but for general electronics if it's accurate then great I bought a Vici 24$AU Ebay cheapy for a third backup and it's a good buy for what I needed it for and my Son can use it without giving me the shudders.ALL THE BESTRachael

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 09:47:27 pm
content: I am sorry but I disagree. A cheap meter for your son is asking for trouble. If he is careless enough that you worry about the meter, then he is careless enough you should worry more about him. A good quality meter will protect him better, and itself better.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 09:52:28 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 21, 2014, 04:33:53 pmI never said that ALL meters with some kind of opening are junk. I said that they are suspect until proven otherwise. The Gossen has all the credentials and third party test results to prove its safety.The meter in question breaks all the rules and lies if it says it is actually CATII/1000V.I will not apologize to anyone who says this meter is worth its price or that it is safe for anything other than bench electronic use. There is a much better value for a lower price, and much safer, than the meter in question. (Not arguing with anything Wytnucls has said, he is just providing facts)

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 10:38:47 pm
content: as one with a butt load of cheap meters, i would not at all call myself an "elitist", that said, weather the meter in question will serve the user well or not, i really think you could do much, much MUCH better for that price. id call that a $20-25 meter at best. $100 is robbery.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 10:51:58 pm
content: In the defense I would say $40-50 as it has a true rms after all.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 04:47:53 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 21, 2014, 09:52:28 pmWhat I was trying to say is that based on the Gossen rating, any meter with an opening in the case could not have a genuine safety rating higher than CAT II 600V.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 04:54:46 am
content: Aha, OK, sorry misread the context.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 05:25:00 am
content: I was not going to pull it to bits as I have been posting too much as of late , nearly spamming the website imo , but I also notice at the same time there does not seem to be a picture of the pcb anywhere so far looking about .A picture of the PCB would be informative, as little is know about this company. Seems that everywhere you look in China, a new DMM manufacturing firm appears out of the woodwork. While spending time in China, I came to realize that there is a lot of cooperation between manufacturers. If one firm gets a large order it can't fulfill straightaway, the work gets farmed out somewhere else.The meter should be safe enough if you stick to a CAT II 250V rating environment, especially with the A/mA jack blocking system.Don't expect very accurate measurements though. It has the worst specs I have ever seen on a true RMS 6000 count meter.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 06:36:47 am
content: Quote from: GEuser on October 22, 2014, 12:10:22 amYes, a picture of the PCB would be appreciated since we know very little about HoldPeak.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 07:26:55 am
content: The company's name is actually Zhuhai JiDa HUAPU Instrument Co. Ltd. I guess it doesn't sound as good as HoldPeak or HP for short.5/F., Building No. 2, #2021 Mingshu South Road, Zhuhai, Guangdong 519070, China

author: MrsR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 07:32:07 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 21, 2014, 09:47:27 pmIf my Son wants to do some AC testing I will lend him my Fluke but working on cars the cheap meter is good enough and if he loses it like he has a habit in doing with tools or drives over it he can replace it without going into dept.He is learning to love his tools but that takes time.THATS BEING A MOTHERRachael

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 07:41:14 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 22, 2014, 07:26:55 amI just went by the website URL. The company video shows how they make some of the products.http://www.holdpeak.com/en/introduce.html?introID=23008

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 11:46:21 am
content: The H model (D model without bar graph) sells on Amazon Germany for a more reasonable 50$.The CAT rating has gone up to CAT III 1000V, all of a sudden.It gets 5 stars from the lone 3 reviewers.According to European law, Amazon as the importer, needs to check that their meters comply with EC regulations. Yeah, right!http://www.amazon.de/Digital-Multimeter-HoldPeak-HP-760H-Fehlbedienunsgsperre/dp/B00K68VYUQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1414063423&sr=1-1&keywords=HoldPeak

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 12:08:56 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 21, 2014, 01:55:38 pmhaha awesome

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 12:54:50 pm
content: Back ON TOPIC, this one at sure electronics looks the same.http://store.sure-electronics.com/instruments/multimeter/dc-te11345USD$60 shipped worldwide.Looks like there is a discount on instruments, so make it USD$54 shipped.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 01:23:53 pm
content: The HP760E has the bar graph, but is not true RMS though, so should sell at a discount, compared to the E model.Doesn't even have a brand name or CAT rating, but the picture shows the lamp in the selector switch.

author: bigsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 02:18:16 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 21, 2014, 07:47:31 amLet me chip in...I am only aware of one firm that offers a lifetime warranty with its high-end DMMs. And these meters have been found over many years to be accurate and reliable. I'm talking about Fluke, of course.I think the only other quality makes of handheld DMM are Keysight/Agilent, Gossen, and possibly Chauvin Arnoux (correct me if there are others). None of these give more than a three-year warranty. That says a lot to me. Don't they trust their products in the same way as Fluke? If their failure rate is low, then the economic implications would be minimal.But an expensive DMM isn't always necessary. I agree that, for work on low-energy circuits (especially at hobby level), a mid-range meter is fine. Firms like Amprobe, Extech, Uni-Trend, Appa (to name but a few) all have suitable products at reasonable prices. Even Dave recommends having a few pocket-type meters for quick troubleshooting etc. But the very cheap meters are badly built and prone to failure.Elitism and snobbery doesn't enter into it.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 11:43:36 pm
content: Quote from: bigsky on October 23, 2014, 02:18:16 pmBut why would you ? I've got some nice bench meters about, but the ones I use all the time are the Fluke 70 series. They cost me 10,20,£30 (hamfests, ebay) and the cheaper ones needed a little bit of work on them. They're a pleasure to use and it would be both very unusual to damage them and not be a financial disaster.So why would I want a slightly cheaper one ? What would be the benefit ? It wouldn't save me any money and it wouldn't be as nice.The only exception I can think of is where untrustworthy people are using them. I recently bought a couple of chinese-made Martindale meters for a commnity workshop. They're reasonable quality, made for the electrical installation trade, and can be replaced for £30 without having to search for a bargain. The secondhand Flukes we had before walked away. I guess someone appreciated them a little too much.

author: doctormord
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2014, 10:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 21, 2014, 08:13:22 amThis is not "CE", this is "CE - China Export"..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking-> China Export.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 11:27:14 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 21, 2014, 04:01:40 pmNo one here, presumably you included?, has any experience with it. Yet you feel strongly that it is not a meter ***somebody else*** would want?Doesn't that sound a little bit presumptuous?

author: bigsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 04:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: artag on October 26, 2014, 11:43:36 pmI think Dave suggested them because of their small size - something to keep in your car glovebox etc.I'm aware that Fluke 70 series can be picked up for bargain prices. Like you, I'd rather use an old Fluke than a modern chinese DMM!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 05:57:53 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on October 29, 2014, 11:27:14 amYes, it is presuming that no one wants to spend money on something that is less quality than they expect. I assume and presume that people want value for their money and when I know there are better buys available I presume people would prefer the better buy. When there are safer meters I presume people will want a safer meter if all else is equal. I presume the experiences of Dave, me, and others on the forum have some merit when it comes to matters such as meters that have transistor testers on them. I also presume that my advice will taken with a grain of salt and the individual buying a meter can make up their own mind.

author: ModemHead
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 07:11:18 pm
content: Quote from: bigsky on October 29, 2014, 04:26:50 pmI couldn't let that one go by without afrom the peanut gallery.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2014, 07:10:46 am
content: Thanks for sharing the pictures of the inside.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2014, 07:14:10 am
content: First a positive thing. The actual construction and soldering looks OK. That's all I can say.The bad things? 250V glass fuses, the tacked on LED is pretty bad, limited input protection, and a really cheap battery clip. The transistor tester socket really bothers me.So does this meet its CAT rating? Not even close. Is it a $100 meter? Not even close. I wouldn't expect anyone to have to pay more than $30. Sorry, but that is the way I see it. Please keep this away from high energy stuff and only use it for the bench.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2014, 08:04:11 am
content: I'm with Lightages on this one. Doesn't meet its CAT rating by a long shot. Any meter that does not comply with the latest IEC regulations can't be sold legally in Europe anymore.The unpopulated pads are probably meant for 2 back to back voltage limiting Zener diodes, which are normally part of the mA/uA protection circuit.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2014, 03:29:29 pm
content: Thanks for sharing the pictures. Yes I will post this on the DMM fails cat rating thread. I need to do some updating to that thread as I have let it sit for a long time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 05:42:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 21, 2014, 09:38:27 amThere's your problem right there.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 02:45:49 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 30, 2014, 08:04:11 amI am not qualified to comment on the CAT/IEC ratings, but I will say that this is definitely better as an electronics meter, not an electrician's meter. I wouldn't go anywhere near mains with that thing.Quote from: Wytnucls on October 30, 2014, 08:04:11 amZeners need to be placed anti-series to be effective. If placed anti-parallel, the forward biased one shorts out the reverse biased one long before the latter conducts.These anti-parallel diodes are possibly for protection of a current shunt. When the voltage across the shunt exceeds ~0.6V, then one of the diodes will conduct, preventing any more current from going through the shunt. Typically there is only one fuse for the "mA" range, but the very low ranges have a high enough shunt R that they can be damaged long before that fuse pops; that is where these diodes protect the shunt. Obviously, notthesediodes, as they are not populated, but those hypothetical diodes.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 05:52:53 pm
content: That makes sense. The diode protection voltage is usually higher than 0.6V, that's why I thought of Zeners initially.Some meters have a diode bridge before the lone Zener.