17 soon and I want to get into electronics  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 10:44:56 am
content: I'm turning 17 in 2 months and I want to get into electronics, I don't want to do it as a job but more of a hobby (might put videos up on YouTube).My main question is, how? I would like to know what I need, equipment wise, and things to know before I start. I have the basic stuff, cheap soldering iron, solder (must get more), wire stripper, screw driver's, and I have small pliers/wire cutters.I have done about 4 Jaycar kit things in the past, out of them I only had one work, a simple LED flasher. I went for the "cool" soundings things not the easy stuff.I also love to get into old electronics, like pc parts, old toys, and any other things I don't needIf you have any other tips or tricks I should know, pleas share all

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 11:04:38 am
content: first thing from what you currently have is, i would reccomend a multimeter, dave did a number of reveiws on these,my first thought would be find something you want to make, be it some piece of gear such as the basic power supply, or something interesing to yourself,

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 11:14:03 am
content: Yeah, I'v had multimeter in my head for a whileWhat sort of power supply world be good?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 11:46:07 am
content: well as a starter, the LM317 based supplies is the tried and true, but there are lots of ways to improve upon them and modify them for your own use, the type to start with you would probably be chasing what is known as a linear type, but if you wanted to give yourself a very solid challenge you could look into trying a switchmode supply, or both (linear smoothed switchmode)now both these types can generally either be run off AC or DC, (bridge rectifiers dont really care, even for polarity) so probably make it to work off some generic plug pack you have available in the house for something you threw away(everyone has heaps of them) for linear if you wanted to output 30V you would be chasing 32 (36 is max!) and if you wanted 1A at 5V you would be chasing 7V (1.25V droput voltage on lm317)linear types can only drop the voltage and dissipate heat based on how much current they are supplying for a given voltage drop on the input, while switchers can either raise or lower the voltage (sometimes both) depending on how they are set up due to a unique property of inductors,this is a very generic lm317 supply, and instead of feeding AC off a transformer you could just feed in a voltage from a DC plugpack in the meanwhile (i'm not that keen to tell beginners to play with AC)http://www.electronicecircuits.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lm-317-regulator-IC-power-supply-circuit.jpg

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 12:52:04 pm
content: Would something like this be good for a 1st power supply?http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5446

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:03:07 pm
content: Quote from: shane_95 on June 26, 2012, 12:52:04 pmOn second look that't not a power supply is it?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:05:48 pm
content: its part of one, its just missing the input,which could be through a rectifier from a transformer for AC or a DC jack for DC,and the common knob you see on the front you would just bring out the wires from the tiny blue potentiometer,add a panel meter or measure with your soon to get multimeter and its a functioning supply,

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:28:03 pm
content: so i would some how need to connect thishttp://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PS0520and power it with a 12 volt transformer from Christmas lights or something like that? bit like this onehttp://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3020&keywords=12+volt+transformer&form=KEYWORD

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:36:52 pm
content: As for the multimeter, get a really good and precise one. I suggest you build (or even better design) most of the other instruments yourself but to calibrate them you need a really good and precise multimeter.The regulator kit would not be very useful out of the box, it is just a voltage regulator, not a whole supply. You would have to add a DC source (25V DC/1A), for example a wall brick adapter or transformer with bridge rectifier and filter caps. And replace the trimmer with a real potentiometer for ease of use. And its current protection will trigger at 1A which is plenty to fry anything, no way to limit current. And yes, the regulator seems to be missing a heatsink! You will definitely need one if you get anywhere near the rated 1A at low voltages.What your requirements for a bench top power supply should be:Variable voltage output (with a knob, preferably the ten turn type), about 15V max sould be more than enough for youSettable current limit, 0-1A - very important, you will be able to limit the current in case something is wrong so you wont burn stuff as easily when powered on for the first timeDisplay of both current and voltage at the same time so your multimeter is free to measure in the circuitIsolated from the mains groundIts best to have another output with fixed +5V as a lot of designs use thatAnd preferably, build it yourself.I'm thinking about making a guide for hobbyists about equipping your lab cheaply and learning electronics at the same time, building most of the instruments... that would be cool wouldn't it?

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:47:51 pm
content: I don't have the biggest budget ever, so a cheap guide to set up a lap would be greatI was watching one of dave's videos, and he said a $50 multimeter will do just fine for people that don't have a big budget. I had found one on line for Jaycar and I have the Jaycar shop 10 mins away so I was thinking with going with this onehttp://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1548&CATID=97&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=1060#1

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: shane_95 on June 26, 2012, 01:28:03 pmNo, that adapter is 12V AC, you need 12V DC.Or four diodes and a big capacitor and make a bridge rectifier.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 01:56:54 pm
content: Go for it. At your age, do anything and everything that seems even remotely interesting, you'll always be glad you got in early.Definitely put a multimeter next on your list. Even if it's just a 10 buck Jaycar piece of garbage, because you can never have too many meters and it'll still be handy sometimes when you have a good meter around (e.g. quickly reading a component value or probing a power rail while your main meter is busy reading current or something).That 12V supply is the wrong type for that kit, you need aDCsupply. Unless you want to learn to build a rectifier now too (which isn't hard, and is a good skill to have).I've only gotten serious about electronics in the last year and a half or so, but here's the tips I could give you so far:- Watch Dave's videos- Watch Jeri Ellsworth's "Fail and fail often" video. Then watch it again.- Buy a whiteboard. Or 2. It's WAY better for scribbling on than paper because you can easily correct things quickly.- Buy a scientific calculator.- Buy books, particularly used cheap ones. As many as possible. Expect some of them to really suck.- Don't waste too much time on kits and clones. That stuff is great when you're first starting for soldering practice and learning some basic starting points for building things, but I've found the learning really starts and gets value when you decide you want a device that does a particular task and you sit your ass down and figure out how to design and build it yourself. You get good at problem solving, searching for data, laying out boards, heaps of stuff. People I know who spent lots of time copying designs or building kits never really seem to move forward and build anything interesting.- Build before buying where possible. You'll learn heaps.I could go on and on, but there's lot's of way smarter people than me here who will surely give you some better tips

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 02:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: hlavac on June 26, 2012, 01:36:52 pmAs good as all this is, I feel like it's worth mentioning that I still don't have most of these features in any of my power supplies. So someone starting out shouldn't freak out over ticking all those boxes. I've got 3 supplies on my bench that all get the job done. One is a fixed +/- 15V Jaycar kit (my first power supply), I used that with voltage divider setups for a while at first. Same with batteries and random wall warts. Then I've got a dual variable voltage thing that is 1.25-20V that I designed and built a while back. To check voltage I use a meter, there's no display. To limit current I use resistors. Never fried a single circuit yet. Then I've got one I slapped together the other day out of junk parts with 7 different voltages on a rotary switch and a pile of different output connectors for powering different things. No display, no current limit.Again, I'm by no means saying that stuff is a bad idea haha, I just remember holding back when starting out and low on funds thinking a lot of that stuff was necessity rather than just nice features.P.S. Another tip- Jaycar is great for random cheap stuff in a hurry. But when you start really buying parts shop online (RS Electronics is usually my place of choice). You'll save INSANE amounts on most stuff

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 02:19:21 pm
content: Quotedo you have any links for any of them, iv been on the jay car sight and I could not find any thing, other then the current regulator (i was half right)?QuoteSay I want to make a device to annoy people, by making a beep every minute, I know I would need ,a beeper, 9v battery, some kind of timer, switch, and a box to put it all in. How would I go about finding what else I need

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 02:46:42 pm
content: Quote from: shane_95 on June 26, 2012, 02:19:21 pmLinks for what, the power supplies? I think this is similar to the first one I builthttp://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5501, the other 2 were just things I threw together from ideas in my head. But as a starting point, you could look at some voltage regulator data sheets to get an idea of possibilities if you know how to read schematics (another tip- look at/save a copy of every data sheet you come across). If I was you I'd start with simple battery powered things, and when you find the limitations of that you'll know enough to know what you need from a power supply. Know what I mean? Like it will become clear to you at that point "I need X volts and X amps from a supply" and then you have a clear idea of what to look for.As for the annoying beeper (or any circuit), finding all the parts required comes down to practice and experience I think. That list was pretty good, but you'll also need some hookup wire, you might want a power LED, which also requires a current limiting resistor, you'll probably need a board to mount the timing circuit on (e.g. perfboard, tagboard, PCB, etc), maybe some rubber feet for the box... you kind of just acquire lots of the stuff as time goes on, plus the ability to know exactly what parts you'll need.If that project is actually something you want to do, a good place to start looking is by hitting google and looking up a 555 buzzer.Oh, and I can't believe I didn't say this yet- buy a breadboard pronto!

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:00:29 pm
content: Cool thanks lotsAs for the Universal Power Supply Regulator you linked me, how would i go about powering it? would I use one of these ?http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?view=grid&w=centre+tap+transformer&SUBMIT.x=0&SUBMIT.y=0As for the the bread board, i made one in wood tech a few years agoi know what you mean the plastic board with all the little holes in for planing things out

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:02:23 pm
content: You need to study a few designs, learn about the components - resistors, capacitors, inductors, diodes, transistors, the 555 timer chip, maybe even some 74HC logic chips... you will learn most from discrete component designs, as ICs are sold today often as black boxes without explaininig how they work inside for fear of competition.Look at thesenice collections of circuitsat talkingelectronics.com for example.Study some designs, understand how they work, learn a few tricks in the process...Later I suggest you look at programming the microcontrollers like PIC and AVR, lot of complicated stuff can be done with a cheap microcontroller today.Also check out theelectronics lectures videos at MIT, like the 6.002, if you can understand them - they are good, except for the occasional ridiculous commercial product placementAlso the Indian Institutes of Technology make some nice video lectureslike this, youtubeis full of it.I like to watch these as a form of entertainment instead of the TV

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:09:15 pm
content: Quote from: shane_95 on June 26, 2012, 03:00:29 pmHaha yeah, the plastic type. Great way to experiment and learn.Yeah, you'd use a transformer... but don't yet. By the sounds of it you need to do a little bit of experimenting and learning before you start plugging things into mains power. Stick to batteries or wall warts at this point, don't even worry about that regulator just yet. There's plenty of cool stuff you can do with a few parts and a battery at this point.hlavac nailed it in his last post too, watch piles of videos and look at piles of circuits and learn to do things the full way rather than all in one IC's.Here's a good starting point-(watch the whole playlist)

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: David Aurora on June 26, 2012, 03:09:15 pmthis guy, love his videos, have not watched them all thought

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:18:23 pm
content: Getthis one, and get the socket for the plug on it (you already pointed that one out). Solder two wires to the socket to plug into the breadboard and you are doneAlso great way to play with electronics is thislittle real-time simulator of electronic circuits.Later look at LTspice for a real simulator.

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:19:56 pm
content: well i bet be going to bed, got TAFE at 1 pm. I will definitely be book marking this post.Thanks for all the help guys

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:26:20 pm
content: Yeah his Make Presents series is really great for a starting point for things you need to know. And, as I said before, Jeri Ellsworth (she did a cool beginner's series too called A to Z of Electronics) and Dave's videos. There's heaps more really cool ones, but those are probably my favourites and the ones I've learned most from. Actually, some of the old timers on Youtube are great too. They show you how to make complex meters out of of bubble gum, coat hangers and a can do attitude and stuff like that, whereas the people making LED cubes and useless boring crap like that tend to need mega expensive DSO's and all sorts of tools just to test a battery.That circuit sim does kick ass for playing around, though I must say I've seen it spit out completely messed up results before and stuff me up haha. I've sometimes been able to program the simplest of circuits into it and watch it display the wackiest results on the scope, despite me knowing 100% for sure that the circuit is good and even having it working right in front of me in real life. Some problems have gone away with updates, but not all.

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:26:31 pm
content: And here is asuitable breadboardfor you. And get some colored wires for it. Don't bother with the commercial breadboard jumper wire sets, just cut a wire to length and strip the ends with scissors.

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:32:38 pm
content: Quote from: David Aurora on June 26, 2012, 03:26:20 pmYep it has some problems with convergence, seen a few weird oscillations with gigaamperes involvedAlso the MOSFET model sucks, its not suitable for power MOSFETS that have much lower Rdson than this.But the source is there, maybe we could try to fix it

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: hlavac on June 26, 2012, 03:32:38 pmIf by "we" you mean you, sure, haha, I have no idea about coding programs like thatHave you tried the app mentioned on the page? I've considered buying it before, but then wondered about the bugs

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: David Aurora on June 26, 2012, 03:43:12 pmWell I can certainly program in Java, but I'm afraid the problem is more in the numerical methods used for the simlation, not a simple bugQuote from: David Aurora on June 26, 2012, 03:43:12 pmIn fact yes I did, and it sucks. Keeps losing the designs. Not worth the money.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 03:54:59 pm
content: Good to know, cheers! Glad I didn't waste my moneyI'll have to start noting down issues I get with that sim for future reference

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 04:09:56 pm
content: Seek out old/dead/dying electronic things and take them apart. Try to figure out how they work, why things are done the way they are, try to fix things, modify in useful or stupid/fun ways, reuse parts. You will learn a lot.

author: dcel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 05:05:49 pm
content: ^^As Mike said.You mentioned that you had several non-functioning kits that you assembled, correct? Well, get your multmeter and startout by trying to fix them so they do work. Good troubleshooting practice, you have the schematics I'm sure, and you can ask for assistance on here. There is nothing better than trying to figure out your own mistakes.Chris

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2012, 05:14:52 pm
content: Where were you the last 11 years ? should have started at age 6 ...

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2012, 01:28:15 am
content: Funny you say that, I was about 6 and I had this toy truck that stopped working. I go and tell dad, he replaces the battery's in it and told me it would work. I then convince dad that I must pull it apart to see if something else was wrong.At age 6 I had no clue if any thing would be wrong, I just undid all the screws and cut all the wires. After that any broken/old thing I pull apart. It's only just now I have heavily wanted to get into electronics

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2012, 05:33:43 pm
content: Hey shane, sorry for my ninja sudden appearance, my ban just got lifted...The meter you showed isn't any good for 50AUD, in fact for 50USD you could do much better for a 59.70USD UT61E from DealExtreme, it's really good.

author: caroper
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2012, 06:06:09 pm
content: When I was 12 I made my dad a radio, I couldn't understand why he was so up set that I had dismantled his TV to get the parts I needed. I guess I never learn from my mistakes as 5 years later I dismantled my mothers car radio, headlights and indicators to build a disco lighting system for my sisters 16th birthday (it was the 70's).It was a great way to learn electronics, but I never did learn to value expensive consumer items.40 Plus years later I still pull things apart to make new things for fun, but now it is called recycling and I have a piece of paper to say I am qualified to do so.However you learn electronics, do so and do it with a passion, just remember Personal Safety and respect other peoples property. both physical and intellectual, and use your new found talents to give back to the community and help others.CheersChris

author: Pickers
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 28, 2012, 10:03:45 pm
content: Another way you could power that regulator kit is with an old ATX power supply, can be scavenged easily from old crap computers free of charge. That way you'll have the adjustable voltage from the regulator and fixed 12V, 5v etc rails to play with... Bit of a crude solution but one that works and is fairly safe as the supplies normally have short circuit protection and whatnot.Cheers,Kris.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2012, 09:18:46 pm
content: For 50 bucks you can get an amprobe AM220 which is a very decent begginer meter

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2012, 04:29:30 am
content: Quote from: Pickers on June 28, 2012, 10:03:45 pmMeh. I'd shy away from ATX "bench supplies". I don't know. They aren't terrible though.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2012, 04:34:20 am
content: Quote from: Simon on June 29, 2012, 09:18:46 pmI own one. Yes, it is a simple meter, but it works well.Amprobe has a few new meters that are also good. I would recommend the AM-250, AM-270, and AM-530.I'm a big supporter of Amprobe. You might think I work for them by the stuff I say sometimes, but I'm serious, Amprobe makes some really good quality...and more importantly excellent value meters.Thumbs up.Here's my own teardown of an AM-270. $80-90 meter. Build quality and performance is of a meter in a much higher price bracket.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/teardown-amprobe-am-270-digital-multimeter/

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2012, 09:53:35 am
content: Quote from: dcel on June 26, 2012, 05:05:49 pmI agree with both this post & Mike's.Making kits saying,"That doesn't work!",& chucking them in the junk box is not the way to learn.Learn how to read schematics ,if you don't already know how,become familiar with component colour codes,& approach the thing as anElectronic circuit.not as a "kit" that you build "by numbers".Pulling Commercially made stuff apart gives you an insight into how things are put together in the real world.Reputable Manufacturers will often make components & PCB tracks larger than strictly necessary in power circuits,whereas others do stupid things like using undersized components & tracks---you'll recognise them by the burnt bits!!I would advise against trying to design things until you have built& understooda few examples of other people's designs.("Zombie" type construction doesn't make it!)This is a common mistake by beginners on this forum.They see other members designing things,who have either years of experience as Techs or EEs ,or are well into their Uni EE course & think they should be able to do the same,although they have very little theoretical knowledge.Breadboards!---- I hate 'em!But that's just me,& I'm a grumpy old sod!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2012, 10:04:49 am
content: Oh I like breadboards, well when I start but it soon becomes a mess when I try changing stuff I think breadboarding itself is a skill

author: dcel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2012, 10:35:56 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on June 30, 2012, 10:04:49 amYes, Breadboarding IS a skill that takes many years of "rip-out and re-do" to be proficient at.Another trick to breadboarding is to have multiple "buss bars", IE the power and ground rails that you never have enough of. I suggest having a minimum of two dual buss bars on each side. It makes having +- supplies easier as well as having like 3v3 5v 12v Gnd available. And label them accordingly to prevent mistakes.@OP - As Dave says, "I hope your project doesn't work the first time!"Chris

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2012, 11:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 27, 2012, 05:33:43 pmDon't listen to the idiot. What matters is to consider why that meter might be good and why it might be bad. Then make an informed decision.Why it might be good: it can measure inductance. Very few multimeters can do that. Doesn't matter for a beginner if it is only an "approximate" measurement. Normally you would have to pay $100's for an LCR meter to measure inductance.Why it might be bad: it is not autoranging, meaning you have to choose the correct range for the value you are measuring. Does this matter? Not very much. Actually, it sometimes is preferable for the meter not to change scales in the middle of a measurement. You are learning, and you will learn how to use a meter to take measurements.Maybe the accuracy is not brilliant. Does this matter? Not a jot. In much of industry a measurement to +/- 3% is as good as you can get. If you get 0.5% you are laughing.That meter looks rather fun. Get it, play with it, learn from it, enjoy it. Don't pretend it is the best thing out there, but rather learn by experiment why it may not be. But don't for a moment think it is not useful.

author: shane_95
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2012, 05:53:14 am
content: Quotewow thanks, I now know what to look in a multimeter