Aftermarket UPS replacement batteries. Are they worth it? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: deflicted
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 09:45:29 pm
content: Anybody have experience with aftermarket UPS replacement batteries? The OEM batteries are ridiculously expensive, but the aftermarket batteries seem too cheap to be any good.Specifically, I have a CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD, and the OEM replacement is $78 USD from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-RB1270X2A-Replacement-Battery-Cartridge/dp/B00GOU8T76).There are a whole bunch of aftermarket sites selling "UPS replacement" batteries for as low as $23 USD per pair, plus shipping. Here's one such site:http://www.refurbups.com/CyberPower-CP1350PFCLCD-Replacement-BatteryThe problem I have with the aftermarket sites is they don't give any specs on the batteries other than the Ah rating and voltage, which doesn't tell me anything about how it performs in a UPS. The OEM battery is marked "27WPC/15min/1.38V/25 C". I've looked up what those numbers mean and I think I have a pretty good understanding of it. But I have no way of telling how well the aftermarket batteries compare.It might not necessarily be a problem, as the load on the UPS after a mains power failure isn't that much. Just a low power file server and a couple routers. Plus I have the file server configured to power down when the UPS gets down to something like 50% battery capacity remaining, so the total load that the UPS is expected to handle is a relatively low power for a relatively short time. Nonetheless, I don't really want to spend $40 (including shipping) on some cheapo replacement batteries if they're not really a proper replacement.

author: darrellg
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:06:36 pm
content: They're just SLA batteries. There's nothing special about the OEM ones. Last time I bought some, I got them at Home Depot to avoid paying shipping on a lead brick.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:09:20 pm
content: I ordered many batteries from AtBatt.com to replace the batteries in 3 rackmount APC UPSs, to add battery backup to a driveway gate, and to have 4 spare batteries around for workbench usage.All of them seemed to be fine, the UPS took them just fine, and zero complaints. They periodically have small sales (5% or so seems common), but even at their full price, I thought the value was excellent.As darrellg says, there's nothing "special" about the batteries. Get the same chemistry and a compatible size and you're in business.

author: deflicted
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on July 26, 2017, 10:09:20 pmSo all this business about "high rate" batteries (e.g.,https://www.batteriesplus.com/t/battery/sla-types) designed for UPS systems is just marketing gibberish? I always assume there's some of that crap going on, but it's hard to tell just how much is marketing gibberish, and how much is real.

author: WastelandTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:20:36 pm
content: Just be sure to tweak the float voltage of your UPS. I find they drift out of spec and destroy $$$ new batteries in short order

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:30:23 pm
content: "OEM" batteries are often just re-badged ones from the normal manuafcturers - Yuasa etc.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:39:22 pm
content: Also, the lead acid batteries are hardly ever faked. Chinese dont manufacture them. Shipping would be too expensive. It is a mature technology. Just make sure about the size.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 10:49:11 pm
content: I usually use Yuasa batteries as my experience with them is very good. One thing is that you need to be sure of the overall size and the terminal size.Regarding suppliers, make sure you get them from a reputable supplier as chances are high the batteries were properly stored. Despite this, my last batch of Yuasa batteries came from Atbatt.com, but they screwed up my order twice and it took them quite some time to sort it out. The packaging was far from stellar either.Overall, their service and communications were very good, but their shipping department needs a lot of improvement.

author: EHT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:09:53 pm
content: Used some on two old APC SUA750 and working fine. APC originals over 2x the price. Can look up the brand/seller if interested.

author: deflicted
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: EHT on July 26, 2017, 11:09:53 pmMuch appreciated, but I went ahead and ordered the batteries I linked to. At this point, I'm willing to try the cheapies just to see for myself if (or how well) they work.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 12:40:33 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 26, 2017, 10:30:23 pmNot just that, often they are cheap Chinese crap, like APC often uses for their low-mid end UPSes. Peel off the sticker and see what it actually is. Good batteries are made by Yuasa, Panasonic, CSB (cheapest out of decent ones).

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 12:44:32 am
content: Quote from: darrellg on July 26, 2017, 10:06:36 pmYeah there is. UPS batteries are better built. Not sayin your Home Depot specials are cheap and nasty, but a lot of the generic home brand SLAs are. Batteries often sold for security systems and the like are cheaper, have less plate material and a higher internal resistance. They'll work in UPS service but are likely to be dead in a year.The shame of it is there's not a lot of difference in the retail cost between a good and bad battery. On the whole though, places that sell batteries identified for UPS service (like the one linked above) sell batteries that are fit for purpose.As an example, I can buy genuine CSB SLAs from the wholesaler for less than I can buy nasty generics from my local electronics store. The CSB will last 5 years and the generic will be dead in 1.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 12:57:02 am
content: Quote from: deflicted on July 26, 2017, 11:48:34 pmI guess they will be some sort of crap. Decent batteries will cost a little bit more, and that does not include the price of rebadging and selling as compatible with certain UPS model.

author: deflicted
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 05:08:48 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 27, 2017, 12:57:02 amYeah, I'm certainly prepared for that possibility. I have other uses for crappy SLA batteries though, so if they don't work out as a UPS battery replacement, they won't go to waste. Then again, these cheapies were around $40 USD shipped, and the OEMs are $78 shipped, so it's not like there's a huge range there. At least, not compare to the huge price ranges you see in things like test equipment. In this case, I'm willing to scrape the bottom of the barrel just to get a first hand idea of what to expect.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 07:07:39 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 26, 2017, 10:30:23 pmAnd often the only rebadging is a few stickers with the OEM's part number, at least on the 'smaller' UPS boxes where the batteries aren't in a fancy 'cartridge', then you get to 'proper' UPSs where the batteries fill a room and there's no attempt to hid the manufacturer, it's actually a selling point to have a leading brand.Yuasa, Sonnenschein, Saft, Hawker/Enersys, Fiamm, Panasonic, and at a push, something like RS Pro, they're about the only ones I'd trust but I'm sure there are probably others, they're just the ones I have used (I know APC use something else but I can't remember the brand).To the OP, cheap batteries are a fallacy, your data is worth far more than a decent quality branded battery that's been designed for use in a UPS.If it's not why are you even bothering with a UPS?

author: deflicted
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 08:32:23 am
content: Quote from: CJay on July 27, 2017, 07:07:39 amI'll probably work my way around to one of those brands you mentioned. I used to use Yuasa batteries exclusively in my motorcycle, so I'll probably start there. These cheapies from refurbups.com are just something I'm going to try out of curiosity, nothing more. Worst case, they fail (and I'm sure they will, most likely sooner rather than later), I get an abrupt shutdown and have to fix my file server. All the data that I really care about is backed up in multiple other places. Besides, 99 times out of 100, at least as far as I've experienced, an abrupt shutdown causes no harm to the computer except a clobbered filesystem journal that (usually) gets automatically fixed on the next boot. That other 1 time out of 100? Well that would suck, but it's nothing I haven't dealt with before.I do really appreciate the responses here, and getting a list of brands that people here have tried and trusted in their UPS systems is certainly nothing to sneeze at. However, like many here I suspect, I'm not one to trust a brand namejustbecause some guy on the Internet said so. Don't get me wrong, a recommendation for a particular brand name here is a great starting point. But I also need to get some first hand experience with a brand before I can fully trust it.Beyond that, I would love to see some hard technical data regarding why cheap batteries suck, how they're physically different from good batteries, how that affects their electrical characteristics, etc. If you could point me toward something like that, I'd certainly appreciate it. I'm okay with getting my hands dirty and doing my own research, but I just don't know where to start. There's so much marketing BS out there, and so many reviews, blogs, etc that don't even scratch the surface ofwhyBattery A is better than Battery B. For instance, like I said in my original post, I've looked into what the specs on the OEM battery (W/cell, etc) mean, and have found explanations that make sense, but trying to find affordable batteries that actually list those specs (much less an actual datasheet) is nearly impossible. Most places just give you something like "12V, 4.5Ah", which tells you literally nothing about whether or not it's actually any good as a UPS battery. Which leaves me back at square one, which is just trusting a particular set of brand names.By the way, you said "a decent quality branded battery that's been designed for use in a UPS", but the other responses here basically just say an SLA is an SLA. What exactly does "designed for use in a UPS" translate to in terms of battery specs, and how do I go about determining this? The cheapies from refurbups.com that I bought claim to be designed for use in a UPS, but clearly you don't think I can trust that. So is there some way of telling UPS batteries apart from generic SLAs other than just believing manufacturer/seller claims, or is it just a matter of going with a manufacturer whose claims you feel you can actually trust?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 09:48:52 am
content: It's to do with charge/discharge ratings, some are specified for float, some for use in cyclic, some are rated for either.Charge and discharge rates can also be different between battery families, all of which are related to the type of materials and technologies used in the battery construction.Yuasa, for one, used to and probably still manufacture more than one type of SLA (you could/can differentiate by the colour of the battery) , they were/are all high quality but designed for different applications, there's no point having pure lead plates for sustained high current discharge in a house alarm for example...That's not to say a lower spec battery won't work, it just won't live as long, even if the UPS is never called on to provide power, and may not be able to supply the current required, for long enough or at all, if your UPS is being presented with an in spec but high load.In my experience, UPS batteries often fail shortly after a power outage of any length, I believe it's due to depth of discharge and rate of charge, they live a hard life because it's more important to keep the systems safe than worry about cost of batteries.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 11:25:50 am
content: Bit of a shitshow in here right now, so tldr:YES high rate matters. The more current you pull from a lead acid battery, the lower it's measurable capacity. Ones not designed for the very high rate will have a significantly reduced runtime.http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/ps_psg_series/12volt/PS1290.pdfpowersonic ps1290, 151x65x94mm, 12v 9AH typical UPS size IIRCIf you put a 20A load on it, (480W ups load split between 2 batteries in series) it will be done in 10 minutes or so if you limit the discharge to 9.6v( 1.6 volts per cell)http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/sla_batteries/PHR1236.pdfPHR1236 is the same size, 8.5AH instead of 9, gives the data in a different format, going down to 1.6v/cell, it can maintain 20A for 15 minutes, a 50% increase in runtime over the non high rate battery.If you can't find a discharge curve or numbers for a battery under the load you're gonna put on it, dont buy it.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 11:48:58 am
content: Or if the vendor in question doesn't know the difference between amps and amp-hours (or is pretending not to because the battery maker is giving a less useful spec) and sells the batteries as "12 volts, 5 amps", don't buy them.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 11:56:31 am
content: Quote from: ConKbot on July 28, 2017, 11:25:50 amThat is probably the single best piece of advice in the thread thus far.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 05:19:53 pm
content: Have had fake SLA batteries, with only a single plate in each cell and a polystyrene sheet filling the rest, but they are easy to spot in the much lighter mass of the battery. Yes you gets what you pays for, generally the ones with the 6.3mm spade connectors are higher capacity types, and the ones for light use in things like alarms and gates use a 5mm spade terminal.