Blu-Ray - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2014, 06:59:14 pm
content: This probably isn't the best venue for asking this question, but I was wondering if anyone here knows of a service for having dual-layer bluray disks professionally etched?I have lots of data that I would like archived for long-term storage, and I don't simply want these disks "burnt"; I want an actual bluray disk, with physical grooves etched into it instead of just having a reflective layer. I would like to simply be able to upload to a server my ~45GB of data and have them mail me the finished product.Anyone?

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 02:47:20 am
content: There are plenty of businesses that can do this for you, but it is not cost-effective unless you have a bulk order. They have to make a glass master / stamper, which is a large portion of the cost.By the way, what you are looking for is called a "pressed" disc. Optical discs don't have grooves etched into them like a phonograph record, they have pits pressed/stamped into them. All optical discs, whether burned or pressed have a reflective layer. This reflective layer contains no data. With a pressed disc the data (in the form of pits, which combined with the lands [areas that have no pits] form the data) is pressed into the bottom clear plastic layer; the reflective layer on top of that allows the laser to be reflected back, thus read. With a burned disc, the laser in disc-burning-mode "burns" the equivalent of pits into a dye layer.Do a search for disc replication services, maybe include the word "pressed" in your search. For example, fromhttp://www.discmakers.com/customersupport/FAQ.asp:QuoteThissite has a minimum order of 1,000 for Blu-ray replication, and there is"A Stamper Fee of $500 per layer apply on all new orders, regardless of quantity"(which is the charge for creating a glass master / stamper in order to replicate your disc, and in your case it would be a $1,000 fee because you want dual-layer).Your best bet is to do some research on the best makes and models of burners and blank writable Blu-Ray discs (Verbatim Archival Grade might be a good place to start for the blank discs). There is no 100% bullet-proof solution for longterm digital data storage. Even pressed discs are potentially subject to "disc rot", which is when the reflective layer oxidizes/corrodes to the point that holes are eaten through it. Hard drives, both conventional and solid-state, are potentially subject to failures in the integrated electronics that control them.Most failures with discs and drives can be recovered, but it may not be easy and/or cheap to do so. I would just burn the data with a quality burner to quality discs, keep them away from moisture, light, and extreme temperatures, periodically make additional copies every several years or so, and always keep copies on a hard drive somewhere for good measure. You could also add an online backup service to the mix.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 08:23:08 am
content: I use two RAID1 NAS boxes in different locations for all my storage. I periodically copy the data between them. If a drive fails, I have the other drive in the mirrored RAID set, if a box fails I have the other. Long-term/secure data is encrypted and RARed with a recovery record (rar 5 uses Reed-Soloman which can apparently recover from pretty catastrophic errors).Gotta be cheaper than getting a blu-ray master! Get three NASes if you're really paranoid, just put them in different locations.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 11:43:37 am
content: Quote from: MaximRecoil on January 17, 2014, 02:47:20 amPlus all the licensing/encryption stuff too... Blu-Ray is NOT an open format at all. Although you might find some shady company in China willing to press some discs for you without going through all that if you are willing to sacrifice some quality - but at least with that one, you pay $1000 and get 1000 copies of your data for redundancy, really nottoobad of a dealFor long-term storage a new, lower-capacity hard drive (or several) might be a better option as long as you protect from physical shock and temperature extremes.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 10:08:48 am
content: Simple question, with the best player today that money can buy, NIB and "properly" stored and protected.Will it able to read the disc properly in next 20 or 30 years ?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 05:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on January 21, 2014, 04:58:38 pmNope it is, but the answer may not that simple isn't it ?My own experience starting from 8" floppy .... <tons of efforts> ... today on multiple HDs for digital, or for photo,sound/song/picture/video starting from 35mm film, VHS tape, audio tape .... <again, tons of efforts> ... now on HD, and some in the cloud.My conclusion, it is never about the longevity of the media nor the player.Its all about "continuous efforts migrating to what ever media & player that are feasible & available at that time" that is matter, and maybe this job is for generations to work on if the material is important. Simple example, imagine your grand-grand-grand children in the future asking for a very important moment video of your family activities that you made, this is definitely the job for you & your kid or grand-kid to maintain.Hell, think about those ancient Egypt carving at the stone, they are even constantly decaying and fading if its not properly treated constantly.My 2 carbon resistors worth.

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 04:15:51 am
content: I don't see Blu-Ray lasting much longer than 10 years from now. There seems to be a big push toward Cloud storage and Flash based devices for mass storage. I have not 'Burnt' a DVD for months, and that was to update my service disc. USB Flash drives are becoming more commonly used these days.Regards

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 09:35:11 am
content: Quote from: PeterG on January 23, 2014, 04:15:51 am(High capacity) flash has even worse retention (5 years, 2 years, 1 year) since the written data is inherently in an unstable state - the electrons are "pressurized" in the floating gate and will leak out over time. This is getting worse with each process shrink, since the cells hold fewer electrons as they get smaller.

author: Forced Perfect
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 04:17:53 am
content: Have you looked into M-DISC? I don't think the blu-ray discs are available yet, but the DVDs are and work really well (I have a stack of 'em).http://www.mdisc.com/millenniata-celebrates-completion-of-blu-ray-optical-disc/They're claimed 1000 year life span is pretty damn good. Due to the tech involved, they can't be made dual layer currently. Unless you're making a thousand copies of the same blu-ray disc I don't think you will get a better deal than these things.The DVD versions run ~$2-3 a disc. Playable in almost all drives, but need a special burner (LG makes a bunch of models which also burn blu-rays). The new blu-ray versions are able to be written using a standard blu-ray reader.As an added bonus, the discs look badass (see attachment).

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 07:53:13 am
content: I am waiting for Blu Ray media to come down in price. They are still hovering around the $5/disc price. This makes them still on the expensive side for me.I still do regular backups of my systems to dvd until Blu Ray media becomes more affordable.Regards

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 11:29:23 am
content: Quote from: Forced Perfect on January 28, 2014, 04:17:53 amInteresting... here's the patenthttp://www.google.com/patents/US7613869Looks like the recording layer is carbon-based; yet they keep claiming "inorganic" in their marketing

author: Forced Perfect
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:15:04 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 28, 2014, 11:29:23 amIs carbon itself organic? Isn't it the fact that it combines to make so many organic compounds the reason it's the basis for all life on Earth? I'm sure someone can correct me on that.