Motivational training in the work place.  Struggling to embrace it. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ornea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 10:56:24 am
content: I belong to a engineering based company that has just delivered the latest round of motivational training to get us to move toward new goals and all pull together as a team. There are stories about rocks, business that have embraced the new culture and how it has catapulted them to new levels of business growth. There is even a pyramid.It seems that most of the employees (Australian) are struggling to embrace the training. I am struggling to understand it at all as it seems there is not much that is tangible that I can sink my teeth into.I mentioned to my workmates that we are surely not alone and employees in the States (the USA where the training originated) must also be of a similar mind. However, I was assured that it is a different culture and this type of training is very much embraced.So rather than take it on face value I thought I would go to the source or the horses mouth so to speak.If you have the time I would like folks from all walks to share their views and experiences on this subject and perhaps indicate their cultural back ground.Thanks.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:08:18 am
content: For a moment I thought I was reading Dilbert.

author: ornea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:19:42 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 22, 2017, 11:08:18 amDilbert, I forgot Dilbert. Assuming Dilbert is widely appreciated then I have my answer.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:26:53 am
content: Generic motivational training typically does not work on engineers. Their analytical tendencies and above average intelligence helps them see through the bulls--t.How many datasheets with marketing puff first pages do you have to read, or how many times do you have to press a client to firm up their requirements before you lapse into perpetual cynicism?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:31:42 am
content: Please tell management:I come to work because I get payed for it. If you want me to be more motivated, pay me more. Simple as that. I wil lendure your stupid Standard Operating Procedures, I will put up with the bullshit meetings, I will even document everything as required, and use the ERP system. I would be an engineer anyway, by choice, even at home. I dont need motivation to be an engineer.And three things:1. Dont second and third guess me, it is really insulting.2. And dont have weeks of downtime, when I have to look like I'm working, because you did not tell upper management, that we have nothing to do.3. And fire those clowns who always disturb me, or move them to a different building.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 12:22:21 pm
content: I feel disappointed you are not on the same page as the motivational training run by your esteemed colleges in Talent Management.Remember it is important to run any issues up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes whilst collecting the low hanging fruit.Perhaps take it offline to avoid paralysis by analysis and to maintain your customer centric focus.Sounds like your training is following best of breed best practices.If in doubt just eat your own dog food, drink the kool-aid, be proactive, go forward into the future, and reach out.Thank you for bringing this to the table. It is good that we could unpack your concern to continue to address the wellness of the organisation as we face such sea change.At the end of the day try and get some face time with your manager, raise the pain points, put them in the headlightsbtw... you're fired as our rightshoring looks to provide better return on investment. Have a nice day.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 01:22:50 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 22, 2017, 11:31:42 amPerhaps for some people but for me, money is not a motivator, it merely helps during the early stages and only serves to slightly delay the onset of the inevitable - you become resentful. Then it's a lost cause.I spent the last few years working (as a design engineer) for a large American defence company and am very glad to be out. I couldn't stand all this American work culture bollocks, high fives, bonkers tidy desk policies and thank you emails for your "achievement as a group" whilst you are surrounded by bungling incompetent numpties not able to make informed decisions and instead just make decisions.The "motivation" side is laughable, what a joke. You're supposed to be designing multi-million pound/dollar equipment with the best performance possible, then the motivation circus rolls up, theme tune and all.Here's one for you - let's get all the people in the HR department and just you unlucky beggar on one team (because you're an engineer - we'll spread the engineers across the teams) vs the canteen team and Fred (another unlucky engineer) and have you build a bridge out of newspaper and 3 metres of tape. BRB, going to Beachy Head.Jog on and just let me get on with it. High five? I'll put my boot up your arse and show you how high your voice sounds five octaves up.I feel alright now.In all seriousness, my main motivator is interesting work where I can run through different options in my head and come up with innovative solutions, have the freedom to do that and the ability to challenge myself to do things I don't fully understand and know how to do currently. Is this just a trait of engineers or am I mad? I like having to learn things to be able to achieve the end goal, but only if the subject is of relevant interest. No interest in whether I can use self-raising or plain flour, other than for making large aerial fire effects.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 02:42:42 pm
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 22, 2017, 11:08:18 amLOL!I agree with Ian.m. That sort of training doesn't work on engineers and there are definitely cultural differences. What would work are things like having a BBQ or going to a nice restaurant.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 03:05:20 pm
content: Ok, looks like I am the only 'merkan replying, so, yea, the marketing poopers were at your door, eh? Most of my colleagues just smile and agree and then go on about solving all of the problems/solutions at hand and ignore the motivational BS. We are already motivated to get at the work we are doing, probably like every other engineer on the planet. We don't do it for glory, or money or to impress anyone. We do it because we have an internal driving force that compels us to cross all the"t's", dot all of the "i's" and make sure that the final product is safe for humans.We grudgingly go to the meetings because we are required by management to do so. Waste of time. But we want to keep doing our jobs and if we have to make management happy to do so, then we must. The payoff is to be part of something that is worthwhile, because if were not, we would leave and go work some place that has worthwhile projects, if possible.That is my 2 cents.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 03:55:58 pm
content: As the second American to reply I can emphatically say that this is not widely embraced here, with some key exceptions.1. Although unusual, there is the odd one of these things that actually has some value. My experience is there is at least a couple percent yield. People sometimes get excited when they find a mineral deposit with a couple percent pay material, so maybe we shouldn't be so hard on these things.2. Here in the states they often come with free food, and even a trip to an offsite location. Both of which have some appeal.3. Occasionally there is some really intense unintended humor. Like the one which showed a group of machinists counseling a new guy on appropriate behavior. The film maker wanted to make sure the machinists were identified as peers so had the actors carrying hammers and large screwdrivers. Which made it look like a bunch of Mafia thugs selling "insurance".I will also point out that as much as you want to blame Americans, someone in your management was somehow convinced that this was a good idea. So both American and non-American management is feeling lost and bereft and searching for answers. Pity us all.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:34:52 pm
content: I miss a lot of context why actually there is/was an additional motivational training course.To me it suggests that there were issues in the company and people weren't working as a team?If so, the question is what works for you (as a team) and did the training solved the problem?If not I personally would tell managment that their new ideas are simply not solving the issue, because the issue is about something else, and is only wasting my time, therefore people getting even more frustrated.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:40:43 pm
content: I think it's for siffoning money towards management accounts and for ticking obscure management ckecklists.Usually you could throw some pretty decent parties or BBCs for the cost of those motivational trainers.Personally i feel insulted by those mostly idotic motivational games. If you want people singing together or playing childrens games...hire a choir or invite children...

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:43:27 pm
content: Quote from: XynxNet on February 22, 2017, 04:40:43 pmIndeed. I also find that the management are willing to spend money ticking pointless boxes but reluctant to buy the tools you need to do your job, even when they cost less than the box ticking activities.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 06:12:52 pm
content: Koombiah. Koombiah.That and sex Ed.Oops. Sex harassment training. Sex Ed is about creationists doing whoopie. Oops. Confusing religion bible studies with biology.Damn liberals are poisoning the minds of the youngest generation.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 06:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: ornea on February 22, 2017, 10:56:24 amEmbraced by idiot managers that do not have a clue how to motivate their employees, or even the reason why their employees are not motivated. It is NOT embraced by employees. It is dreaded, ridiculed, hated, etc., but not embraced.

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 06:48:58 pm
content: About 15 years ago, when I had a real job, we had one of these motivational events, and most of the staff were required to attend the "Team Building" classes. However, all the management were excluded from attending, although one or two of them did so voluntarily.I always thought this was a good example of "do as I say, not as I do". I don't think that was the intended message.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 07:03:28 pm
content: It's just part of the corporate bullshit circus. I know several colleagues who couldn't take that nonsense anymore and went to being self employed. I'm a bit on the fence on doing that, being an employee has it's benefits. Just have to deal with it I guess.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 08:13:11 pm
content: So it is a symptom of sinking ship.We are lost, so lets stop and hold each other at hands and hope for the best.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 08:44:14 pm
content: Just remembered we had a sex harassment "class" and the instructor had a case where a gorilla wanted to see nipples or she'd be agitated. And they claimed that requiring keepers to work topless was sexual harrasment.I went off the handle at the lack of applicability (unless an NE555 decides to like nipples) and furthermore - if you want to work with primates you have to take that fact that they will throw their shit at you and gawk at your nipples. Don't like it - work with lesser animals and humans.It was the only time I ever complained to HR. The best HR stuff is entertaining and that saves the poor instructors the wrath of annoyed engineers.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 08:53:40 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on February 22, 2017, 08:44:14 pmThe trend is sexual harassment training and what is defined as "sexual harassment" is getting pretty scary. It's pretty much gotten to the point where when you're in the presence of the opposite sex at work, keep your head down and mouth closed. Even a simple compliment can get you fired and even potentially prosecuted!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 09:06:30 pm
content: These things are invariably a bunch of horseshit that makes money for consultants. Corporate "wank words" as I believe Dave would say. (Australians have some of the best slang IMO) What I do is just smile & nod, go through the motions and find something to keep your mind occupied through the presentation and then go back to trying to get some work done despite the many impediments put in place by management trying to justify their own existence.I worked at a place once where we had a massive round of layoffs which the CEO later referred to as "synergy actions" when addressing those of us who remained. No joke.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 09:28:15 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on February 22, 2017, 12:22:21 pmWow!! I think that little spiel would win at least three or four bullshit bingo cards! Well stated, sir!-Pat

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 09:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 22, 2017, 08:53:40 pmHead low - mouth closed? Then you are a creep. Serial killer in the making?The safest place to work is Larry Flynt publications or in a sex club. It is hard to feign politically correct innocence when working there. It is also safer (in some cases) to be gay.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 09:32:23 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on February 22, 2017, 09:28:15 pmWow - I missed that awesome post. Love it. Kudos.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 09:43:48 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 22, 2017, 08:53:40 pmAnd bringing in the face of firing squad of rage feminist. Simply ,the blame is our by we leave that the feminists abuse of us . Now , if we have to go with fear for talking with the women, so what do we do?Avoiding all contact with the women, so that is mobbing. Then the only solution is resigned and run away of the corporation . Worst for them.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 10:42:28 pm
content: alright, who moved my damned cheese?no, I don't think it was funny. it was my lunch, dammit.

author: Landrew2390
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 05:34:56 am
content: I spent some time working at a summer camp where we had a weekly "Motivational Session." As a grown man, I wasn't about to sing silly songs and force my entire department of adults to participate. My staff voted and we decided the time would be better served maintaining the camp. After two weeks of reminders, my boss asked me why my staff wasn't attending and I told him the truth.Apparently, when an entire department tells management they would rather be covered in reptile excrement and deal with large animals armed with razor sharp teeth, the point gets across. That was the last time in my three years on staff that the singing and skits were mandatory.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 05:55:56 am
content: Quote from: Landrew2390 on February 23, 2017, 05:34:56 amI used to work for Walmart (I know, I know... Shame...). There is this thing they do during morning store meetings. It's a cheer done on the sales floor in front of customers. I cannot express the horror that this caused me to feel. Even typing this makes my chest hurt. I refused to do it and one day was called into the office to explain. I asked why we were forced to make fools of ourselves and was told that it was for moral. I asked how humiliating people in public boosts moral? The answer was that no one else has a problem doing it (non-answer) so why do I? I continued to refuse without reprisal and left for a real job soon after. I dreaded those daily meetings...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:07:34 am
content: Quote from: Landrew2390 on February 23, 2017, 05:34:56 amSeriously? They made adults do that? I can almost understand encouraging 7 year olds but adults? That's absurd. I don't think I could bring myself to do that if there was a gun to my head. Some of the stuff companies do for morale, I just don't get it, a cheaper option that would do more for my morale is just buy me a beer and let me get back to work.

author: ornea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:09:46 am
content: I have witnessed the early morning cheer and pep talk activities out front of the stores when overseas. China and Vietnam from memory.I could not tell from their faces if they were in pain or enjoying the activity and could only guess at what they were saying. I did feel for them. It reminded me of a scene from "Working Class Man".

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:21:29 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 23, 2017, 06:07:34 amSome people, for reasons I cannot fathom, respond positively to such antics. The problem comes when you force all to participate without considering the individual. In my case, I was so tormented through grade school, by both teachers and students, that I turned inward and became an extreme introvert for over a decade. Public displays for me are humiliating. I turn inward when I get embarrassed. It brings up all of the scars of my past and is mentally, emotionally and physically painful. I don't care if I am the lone hold out. If I am forced to participate, you've shut me down for days. I honestly have to recover.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:59:01 am
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 23, 2017, 06:21:29 amI had a music teacher in elementary school who loved musicals. She used to force us to participate in them and put on a performance once or twice a year in front of all the parents. I *hated* it, eventually my parents stopped forcing me to go to the performances and got lectured by the teacher. To this day I absolutely despise musicals, I can't stand to even watch them.The root of the problem here is people who cannot see things from the perspective of another and cannot imagine that someone else may not enjoy something they are fond of. When you try to force someone to enjoy something, they will invariably hate it even more.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 07:55:02 am
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 23, 2017, 06:21:29 amYes - some people need peer approval on anything they do. Some people are loners. I taught myself to enjoy myself doing Karaoke (for business - if you do business in Japan you have to do Karaoke, have fun with a Geisha, and eat really expensive Sushi). It is still not my preferred past time - but I care not if I have to make an ass of myself in public. And guess what - the worse you seem to be the more people feel free to join in - go figure....Another is fear of public speaking. That one (as an entrepreneur) was the worst. Speaking in front of investment committees or trade shows and the like. It took practice and a system (I always start standing in front of the audience quiet for 10 seconds just looking at them - and I always freewheel as opposed to having a memorized text I am afraid to forget). After a while I grew to not just like it - but positively hooked on it. Once you understand that your audience is really interested in what you have to say. The guy behind Go Daddy had severe fear of public speaking and wrote a lot about it in his blog.Dude - really - try get rid of that baggage (well - you don't really get rid of it - you just allow the brain to give it the weight it deserves - not the weight you gave it as a teenager). EMDR or any other method works wonders and quickly on this (minor PTSD) crap.You only let the high-school memories of the bastards win if you carry it around. An interesting perspective is later on - when you go to a high school reunion and it turns out that the meanest people don't even remember being mean - only to become rather decent adults. Life straightened them out but you got left with the memories of them as teenagers in puberty acting out their frustrations on you - in your mind.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:01:04 am
content: I don't carry it around, but it is a part of me. Just don't make me "perform" in public and I'm fine. I don't mean things like public speaking. I'm talking about making me do a song and dance as Landrew2390 mentioned or a silly cheer as I mentioned. These are humiliating by nature and are unnecessary.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:22:01 am
content: I used to find public speaking incredibly nerve-wracking. I'd be terrified, and the slightest little thing would throw me off completely. It didn't matter what the subject was, or how well prepared I might have been, it was just a horrible experience.Not long after I started my first job, I found myself having to fly over to the US to give a presentation on how to manufacture and fault-find a new product. The talk would be captured on video and recorded for posterity. My heart sank.But: the talk went really well. I was calm, and authoritative. People came up to me afterwards offering compliments.I think what changed, was that throughout my academic career, nobody in the audience could care less about what I had to say. We were all there because we had to be, and everyone in the room was assessing me on my ability to give a presentation.When the time came to give a talk 'for real', though, the mood was changed. It was my job to know the material, and my audience's job to learn it. I wasn't being judged; instead, I simply had their attention.I'll talk in front of anybody now. Not an issue.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:37:40 am
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 23, 2017, 08:01:04 amWell - they sometimes are - as if in you want to do business in Japan. Humiliation is a reaction by you - apparently not shared by the others. I always shudder at those places where the waiters sing - but it is solely MY problem - if other adults find happiness or joy in it - who am I to mock it or otherwise condemn the practice? In fact - the only thing I should feel about it is guilty about having negative feelings for something that makes others happy. And of course - once you reframe the thought - things go easier and you begin to share the enjoyment.What if you want to and have the opportunity to do business in Japan? Or to be the CEO of a large company (where you have to go on presidents club trips with the best sales people and sing karaoke or crack weird jokes)? Is avoiding opportunities worth "a song and dance" or a "silly cheer"?What about the silliest of them all - the god of all evils - the "small talk"? Is avoiding opportunities worth "mingling" and amateurish "small talk"?BTW - "Small talk" is so awful and so important there is a corporate VP of Small Talk. It's title is an important sounding VP of Business Development. Their job is to small talk their way into uncovering large business and partnership opportunities at parties and trade shows and the like. They are excellent with names and faces, and remembering small worthless minutia that they trade (with others like them) for other worthless minutia that may - with luck - expose a deal at a large customer or an opportunity to partner with a larger corporate. A good one can make a company great.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:21:10 am
content: Quote from: Assafl on February 22, 2017, 09:32:23 pmFYI, IDK, what is the ETA to enter the BOM into the ERP.

author: igendel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:08:10 am
content: Quote from: mc172 on February 22, 2017, 04:43:27 pmThat is so, so true.On my very first job (not related to electronics), they gave me an ancient computer that crashed every 15 minutes, and ignored all my requests to upgrade it - nothing fancy, a matter for $500 maybe.Then, not being happy with the productivity of the company, they paid like x100 times that to some quack external consultant, who came up with a brilliant plan: we (i.e. the lower ranks) should simply be more productive and loyal to the company values.On the meeting where this amazing strategy was presented to us (in fancier words of course), I stood up and told everyone, respectfully, what I really think of it. A month later I was out of that company, much to the relief of all parties involved

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 01:24:34 pm
content: Manyyears ago, Telecom Australia introduced a thing called "Vision 2000".It consisted of a number of "Seminars" where you went through all the "team building" horse faeces, as well as the idea, which had some merit, of looking around your workplace to see if there were better ways of doing some things .They bought us a meal at a nearby restaurant.We went away in two minds about it, tried to do the "looking around your workplace" bit, only to find in most cases there were solid reasons for the existing practices.At the next session, we were surprised to see that all the "butterflies & roses" were gone, & a muchstarker message was presented :- "Things are going to change, & you better change with it".They didn't say,"or else!" but it was, to me, certainly implied.We got some cruddy sandwiches for lunch this time.Shortly thereafter, Glossy pamphlets saying how everything was going great in the organisation started to appear.A little bit later, the first round of Redundancies started!Redundancies were a clever idea, as those of us who were left became pissed off doing several people's work, & resigned,anyway-----nice saving!Shortly after I left & went to the Private sector, the Management at my new job started sending glossy pamphlets around, lauding the Network's achievements.I said to my new workmates:- "Watch out! All hell is about to break loose!"I was right--The CEO absconded with the Company's funds!(I survived that one, as our Creditors were good business people & decided an operating Network was a much better investment than a dead one.)Rule of thumb:- If your employer institutes Motivational training---update your Resume.If they start sending glossy pamphlets around the workplace---start looking for a new job!

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 01:36:45 pm
content: Look up the book "The Phoenix Project". We were made to read it because our software team is dysfunctional (actually it it's shitty product management and decades of technical debt)This is a fiction book about software teams that is supposed to be bedtime reading. It's not funny. It's hard work to get through without vomiting. In fact the prose is so bad and the vocabulary so limited, it reads like Simple Wikipedia. But as far as some "leadership and motivation" consultants suggest, it was clearly written in Jesus' very own droppings.I've done Six Sigma. I've done ISO 9001. I've done seminars. I've won meaningless bits of paper for ethics and togetherness and all that cack.But that is the most rancid turd of an event in my life. You have no idea how bad shit can get until you're a few pages in. I'd rather be abducted by ISIS who proceed to punch me in the balls a thousand times than go through miserable drivel again.This is the level the software sector has descended to. Think yourselves lucky hardware people!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 01:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 23, 2017, 01:24:34 pmIf they get external consultants in, it means the top management knows the middle management doesn't know what they are doing => update your CV. (The top management (arguably) shouldn't know everything that is being done).If there's anewdrive/incentives getting people to write patents, they are trying to crystallise the institutional knowledge in a form that it worth it to anewowner => update your CV.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 03:25:40 pm
content: I'll just leave this here...http://mypage.direct.ca/h/honl/eshit.htmlI've been through enough of this crap over my career to write my own Dilbert book.Best was the 'reinvention'. CEO of the company was a Wharton grad and basically offered up his company as a lab for business professors to try out their latest theories. You know, the kind of people who try to tell you how to run a business but have never done so themselves. Anyway, they had all these all hands sort of meetings, provided meals, etc, and instructed each department to come up "mission statements" and what we need to do our jobs better. This was all rolled up and analyzed - and then they came back and said no, this was all wrong, we were looking for ways to reduce costs. Let's start this all over again - which they did. But it went pretty much nowhere. Then they went full insane - they brought in fresh college grads, no regards for actual degree, and rotated them around various business units. You might be a finance major but you weren't in the finance department, or the investment department. Then the real hammer came down - these college interns were really management spies. The one assigned to our department (IT) printed a report to the wrong printer and one of my colleagues was able to read it before she came flying over from another building to retrieve it. Basically complained about how exclusionary we were, and even anti-woman (we did have several women on our team - as as far as exclusionary - from day 1 we invited her to go to lunch with us but she always refused. Eventually we stopped asking.). Not long afterwards, management decided to outsource all non-essential functions - that meant us. No matter that without computers no one could work, we were non-essential. And the CEO dared go on the old Nightline program and say to Ted Koppel with a straight face that he was implementing a program of bringing in younger highly skilled workers to replace older, less skilled employees. That prompted me to actually write a letter to Nightline setting the record straight. I did get the last laugh though, I went on to a much better job and in fact in my current consulting job have been back to this company to assist with some things. And they no longer outsource IT< in fact they have more IT workers now than they ever did when I worked there. They went through 3 or 4 outsource providers because none of them gave the level of support we did as actual employees - like coming in on a Sunday afternoon and workign all night to restore down systems so come Monday no one would notice there had been a problem.

author: Money4Nothing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:41:48 pm
content: I'm an engineer in an American engineering company with an Asian parent company, and I can assure you that "Corporate Motivation Strategies" are pretty much universal across cultures. 90% of the stuff is vapid, useless bullshit.But one thing you need to understand is that corporate executives are 1) Under tremendous pressure to make their business units profitable, and 2) Pretty much ignorant of how an engineer contributes to the profitability of a company.The result of this is that resources that are needed for efficient engineering efforts are often shorted, and they will stab at the craziest straws to eek out more productivity for less overhead.All that these poor executives see is marketing, sales, and service on a spreadsheet, and engineering/drafting/design/technical publications are pretty much invisible until they screw up really bad.Remember,your company's profitability is your priority, because without it, you don't get a paycheck. You shouldn't need any corporate motivation. Engineers are in a unique (un-glamorous) position to help their company be successful in a tangible way. A poor mechanic or secretary doesn't get the same influence.First thing is to do the best you can with the tools you are given. I've been through so many automation and software platform transitions that I am just numb to it by now and I just learn to use whatever bullcrap software I'm given the best I can. (We recently lost access to Adobe Pro which makes it difficult for me to produce nice markups or illustrations).Second, is be honest with management about what tools you think you need, and how they help you. Don't bullshit or exaggerate. If you can make do without a 10 channel 5000 Gigahertz signal generator, then don't ask for one.Third, when you are having discussions about motivation, ask your executive management if they can describe to you how they understand your role contributes to company profitability. If they can't, that will hopefully inspire them to make sure your role is understood and appreciate by yourself and them.If you don't like your company, you can do the best you can to change it, or you can go work for someone else.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:12:38 pm
content: The Dilbert analogy is spot on. I recently retired from a large company that could easily be the basis for 90% of the Dilbert comics. The middle managers are clueless, gullible paper pushers who push paper in circles to each other and then pat themselves on the back for how much “work” they have done. To keep up appearances of providing value to the company, middle management comes up with this kind of stupid motivational and other “training” as well as weird policy; it is their job security to do so. And they form cliques supporting each other to minimalize accountability by passing the buck until it is forgotten. Middle management is easily deluded by sales pitches by the providers of dubious motivational and compliance training using cherry picked statistics, empty promises and glitzy power point presentations. Middle managers have to do something to prove they are doing something; these mindless programs look like they are taking some responsibility when in reality they are just providing themselves with ass covering excuses that they tried. I remember one manager saying that he didn’t have to know or understand what the people he managed did; he just had to know how to manage!The worst position in a large company is bottom management which has to filter from above and ensure no employee complaints rise to middle management without severe dilution if at all.I was in a meeting with a disgruntled customer who put the problem in two words when he said our company’s management was “over matrixed”. Basically nobody was assigned responsibility, nobody took responsibility and everybody pointed fingers at others.We often joked that Dilbert was a documentary. Scott Adams will never suffer lack of ideas for this comic; he certainly has the ability to highlight corporate flaws in a few humorous panels that speak the truth to those who actually do the work in such companies. I often said that the easiest way to fool a manager is to use a spreadsheet; most managers couldn’t find the math in a spreadsheet to save their souls. And the easiest way to fool middle and upper management is to use a power point presentation with lots of pictures including a couple snapshots of the aforementioned spreadsheet.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:23:04 pm
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on February 23, 2017, 01:36:45 pmIf the people get the medical leave(by depression*) after doing the motivation course, when the corporation had more of the half of their illness employees .Automatically ,they would leave to give the courses(*if not able to achieve the psicologica medical leave, always stays the sugar lump with gasoline)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:46:13 pm
content: The movie Office Space also feels like a documentary of sorts. I've seen bits of so many of the scenes in that movie play out in real life.

author: xygor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:27:29 pm
content: Training is what you do to dogs."No industry has inflicted more suffering than the Motivational Industry. Motivational books, speakers and posters have made billions of dollars selling shortcuts to success and tools for unleashing our unlimited potential. At Despair, we know such products only raise hopes to dash them."https://despair.com/Quote from: MarkS on February 22, 2017, 08:53:40 pmThe "sexual harassment training" itself meets the definition of sexual harassment.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 11:23:30 pm
content: Almost certainly someone in HR is getting a payback and/or has a personal relationship with the vendor.As another poster stated, HR is the epitome of do as I say, not as I do.They get away with it because (a) for some bizarre reason it's become trendy to give HR, a non-core service to the business, a spot on the board and (b) while there might be whistleblowing processes, with supposed direct employee conduits to non-exec directors, I absolutely guarantee that there ain't no way anyone's going to trigger them because innevitably HR is going to be the first to be aware of any investigation, they are on the board after all.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 12:39:09 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 23, 2017, 09:46:13 pmWe have weekly project status reports covering all of our region's projects that have been dubbed the TPS Reports, mainly because the people who SHOULD be reading them (account reps) don't. All of us engineers look at our projects in the spreadsheet because then we can tell if we are over hours (lowering out overall bill rate) or not.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 12:51:51 am
content: MBAs need something to justify all the time and money they wasted getting their degrees.The funny thing is that if you would just implement "Free Taco Tuesday" all the engineers would be happier and more productive than "Sit in this meeting and watch this video that will make you more productive Tuesday". The tacos would be way cheaper too.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 07:29:05 am
content: One thing that comes up is that when you question the direction the process is taking the company, you are accused of having,shock!, horror!, "a negative attitude to change".This, in their estimation, is worse than being an armed robber, conman, mugger, etc!At another workplace a "Teflon Lady" ( so-called , because very real problems we pointed out about the "change process" just slid off her without being absorbed), regaled us with the " Buggywhip maker analogy".This is my "pet hate" amongst the rubbish they serve up.Buggywhip making never served more than a niche market, as most people who used horses had no use for them.Young showoffs did, but even they hardly ever used them, so they didn't often need replacement.There certainly was not a huge workforce involved, who lost their jobs when cars appeared.Of course,such an argument wouldn't work with her, as it was part of her programming!A "Stepford Manager", perhaps!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:04:58 am
content: No doubt it wouldn't have any effect if you mutated Feynman's "cargo cult science" into, say, "cargo-cult processes".

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 01:30:36 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on February 24, 2017, 12:51:51 amI, for one, feel much more motivated after a free lunch.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 03:27:44 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 24, 2017, 07:29:05 amWhips, including recognisable buggywhips, seem to be more popular than ever. However in the last hundred years they've moved from the carriage house to the bedroom!

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 03:53:20 pm
content: read the reviews:https://www.amazon.com/Who-Moved-My-Cheese-Amazing/dp/0399144463/luckily, I have never been 'given' that book at work, but I know people who were given that book and had to attend a company meeting when they gave them out. if that happens, immediately start looking for a new job..

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:34:05 pm
content: My old boss gave me a copy of that to read. Right before he sold the company to the people I work for now.

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:52:50 pm
content: Read the datasheet (scientific papers) for those events and get over ourselves? Angries will be angryEdit: as a jack with many hats this thread exemplifies the stereotype that is an engineer. Events for the group does not have to benefityouin order to benefit you. It's ok to feel insulted or annoyed some times. Whenever you help with SimpleThingX they feel like that. Be the underdog, the outsider, and smile.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:36:45 pm
content: Someone gave me that to read. What a load of

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 03:59:53 pm
content: quite a number of years ago, I knew a girl who worked at yahoo, main campus. she was telling me about how mgmt was giving that book out to employees (at least in her group or cost center). this was at least 10 yrs ago, fwiw; long before marissa came around.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 07:02:37 pm
content: I was given that book by a higher level manager at an old job, but not due to any restructuring. He found it insightful and thought I would as well. I agree with his assessment of the book. It is cleverly written and very informative. I looked at change differently after reading it.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 04:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 26, 2017, 07:02:37 pmI agree with you on the contents of the book, although I was given it alongside more dire circumstances. In the end it worked out well for me - I moved to the US doing something I like much more.Regarding the main topic of this discussion, in the company I work I feed the motivational spiel was much more prominent in early 2000s - nowadays there are glimpses of it here and there but for the most part we are motivated by other means. The social skills courses (ethics, sexual harassment, etc.) are provided online at my company and I feel they are a hit or miss depending on the age of the training (these are expensive to create and tend to repeat themselves year after year) and how connected/disconnected they are from the reality of the workplace (some are very down to earth, while others are very hypothetical).