Would Refurbished Ex Demo Rigol units be of interest? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:03:04 pm
content: Hello EveryoneWe are authorized distributors for Rigol and are located in the UK. We have some ex demo equipment but I wasn't sure if anyone is interested in used or refurbished ex demo equipment. Would it be worth posting what we have on here with some prices? We would fully refurbish the units back to new condition including calibration and all standard accessories.Thank youJoy TorresInstruments 4 EngineersTel +44 (0) 161 871 7450info@instruments4engineers.comwww.instruments4engineers.comAuthorized Distributors for RigolCurrently in discussions with Siglent about Distributing their products

author: dtuned
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:44:30 pm
content: Yes would u be willing to ship to us?

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:30:24 am
content: Even if you do not ship to the US, there would be some interest from German engineers for example

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:35:11 am
content: Would you ship to Australia?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:51:18 am
content: Quote from: I4ESilly question on a high throughput engeneering site ... :-) ... you better get a big stick to fight them off :-)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 06:18:51 am
content: Quote from: digsys on June 26, 2017, 05:51:18 amBut sitting back and enjoying the show would be well worth the.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 06:27:03 am
content: Quote from: I4E on June 25, 2017, 11:03:04 pmSure. But the level of interest will depend on the prices, of course... Compared to new units, there will obviously be the reduced warranty to consider. (I take it that, when selling to consumers in the EU, you would offer the 1-year warranty for second-hand goods?)

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 08:24:49 am
content: Yes, would be interested to see / PM me what you have / prices , partic on entry level scopes eg sub 100mhz , 2 or 4 channel.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 08:31:10 am
content: Yes, we would like to see prices. However, be very careful about the quality. I've seen Agilent certiprime scopes, I couldn't see any wear on them. If you sell beat up scopes, with missing knobs or you sell it dirty, greasy... Most of us wouldn't appreciate them.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 08:49:20 am
content: Price dependent, yes of course we would.It'd have to be a decent discount on new prices but I for one would be interested in instruments that are working, not necessarily bothered about accessories as I have mains cables, 'scope probes and wouldn't need a traceable calibration certificate as I can sanity check equipment to a 'good enough' standard for my needs and I'd be happy with functional but cosmetically poor instruments.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 09:14:17 am
content: I went to the OP's website and it looks very thin.... I feel this is a bit of a Spam/Phishing type thread??? Buyer Beware!A quick trip in the Tardis gets you to...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/big-rigol-sale-instruments-4-engineers/msg1081033/#msg1081033

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 10:19:20 am
content: No, it looks to me the like the typical 19 century company, who has a website, but dont bother actually paying for it to have actual information on it. Has a steady customer base, they probably fax their PO over, maybe they send it with pigeons.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 10:22:26 am
content: To be fair, they're a pretty good company but they tend towards the professional end of the market.Sadly when I queried a price of something last year, it wasn't a hobbyist friendly figure, it was a price that reflected the level of care and quality of the equipment they sell.

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:25:00 pm
content: Hello EveryoneThank you.Regarding our website: It's only a simple site up at the moment while we are working on completing the main website which we have set a goal of launching at the end of the year or Jan 2018. Most of our business comes from existing customers and word of mouth.I really appreciate the feedback as I didn't know that our simple site would create that kind of impression on people who don't know us.Nothing we sell is beat up.Regards to the ex demo equipment it's equipment that we bought to take out to customers for demonstation purposes. Some of the equipment hasn't even been taking out for demo because we assumed we'd need a demo but then found out that people were happy to buy off spec. We will offer a 12 month parts and labor warranty but depending on the age of the unit there maybe additional warranty available from Rigol. We would still answer any questions you may have about the units or answer questions.I'll come back with a list Weds afternoon/evening.Regarding shipping: we will ship everywhere.We do not have any of the low cost items like the DS1000Z series on demo.Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.Joy Torres

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 03:10:52 am
content: As with any T&M equipment, depends on the condition, price, shipping cost, and anything else that is included (warranty, accessories, etc.). Thanks for the heads up.

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 06:24:42 pm
content: EX DEMO EQUIPMENTAll units are 1 year old or less and have either no use or very little use.Warranty:12 Month Parts and Labor Warranty from Manufacturer's defects supported by Instruments 4 Engineers.Remaining 12 months or more supported by Rigol in Germany.We will ship all equipment back to Rigol for calibration, full test and will supply all units with brand new standard accessories before shipping out to the customer. All units will be delivered fully refurbished and like "new" condition. I've put the word new in brackets because technically units aren't brand new since they are ex demo units. If you need clarification please let me know.VAT would be additional on all the prices below. Shipping& Packaging Costs is additional and depends where you live..Payment Terms: Pre Payment.Estimated Lead Time: Please allow 3-4 weeks . Realistically we would probably deliver sooner than this but I'd prefer to give a longer lead time and deliver sooner than a shorter lead time and deliver later.I've included the current new cost in the UK so you will be able to make an easy comparison._____________________________________________1 Rigol MSO 4024 200 MHz 4 +16 Channel 4GS/s Mixed Signal Scope- 4 Months Old Never Been used Or Sent out for DemoThis unit includes all the decoding options on it. If interested I can see if Rigol will give us a free keycode to increase the bandwidth to 350MHz.Price: £2,480.00 Current New Cost £29452. Rigol MSO2102A 2 +16 Channel 2GS/s Mixed Signal Oscilloscope5 Months Old. Never been usedPrice: £925.00 New Cost is currently £1056.003. Rigol MSO4014 4+16 100MHz 4GS/s Mixed Signal Oscilloscope3 Months old taken out for demo oncePrice: £2100.00 New Cost Currently £2423.00Comes with free decoding options.4. Rigol DSA832E 9kHz-3.2GHz Spectrum Analyzer-Price: £2,000. 00 Current New Cost £2,389.005. Rigol DSA815 9kHz-1.5GHz Spectrum Analyzer- 6 Months Old - Taken out on 1 demoPrice: £895.00 Current New Cost £1,022.006. Rigol DSA 832E-TG 9kHz-3.2GHz Spectrum AnalyzerPrice: £2,390.00 Current New Price: £2817.007. Rigol DSG815 1.5GHz Signal Generator5 Months old taken out for 1 demoPrice: £1,360.00 Current New Cost £16078. Rigol DS2102A 100MHz 2 Ch 2GS/s Digital Oscilloscope- 8 months old never used or demo'dPrice: £751.00 Current New Cost £851.009. RIgol DS4014 100MHz 4 Channel 4GS/s digital Oscilloscope6 Months old taken out for demo twicePrice: £1579.00 Current New Price £1706.00Free decoding options included with this unitThank youJoy TorresInstruments 4 EngineersTel +44 (0) 161 871 7450info@instruments4engineers.comwww.instruments4engineers.com

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 06:53:49 am
content: In case anyone didn't see how ordinary this offer is, it's basically up to 15% off for refurb gear, based on what they determined as new price (not including VAT). 3-4 Weeks delivery with no mention of shipping cost.Price: £2480 New £294515.8% OffPrice: £925 New £105612.4% OffPrice: £2100 New £242313.3% OffPrice: £2000 New £238916.2% OffPrice: £895 New £102212.5% OffPrice: £2390 New £281715.1% OffPrice: £1360 New £160715.4% OffPrice: £751 New £85111.8% OffPrice: £1579 New £17067.4% Off

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 12:43:24 pm
content: Meh. Keysight's usual discount is 40% to 50% on recent models, but I've seen 70-80% on previous models. This is hardly a good deal.

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 02:51:20 pm
content: Sorry but we don't make anywhere near that kind of margin on Rigol equipment to be able to offer that kind of discount. Also the equipment we are offering is practically new. Keysight, R&S etc do an excellent job at refurbishing their equipment before sending out but it is equipment that has been used quite a bit beforehand.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 05:11:28 pm
content: I've seen signifincatly deeper discounts than that on the rigolna web site.

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 02:21:24 pm
content: Rigol have just sent us an email today for sales beginning July 17th. I'll come back later and input the pricing. With the sale it's actually better to buy a brand new unit than our ex demo so I will probably remove that from the list for now. for the DSA832E series. Also there is a sale we are running on the Rigol DP800 series power suppliesJoy

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 03:52:12 pm
content: Which tells you, your ex demo units are priced too high.

author: Asmyldof
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 04:03:45 pm
content: Good Business:1. Sell enough through good and clear pricing and supply contracts, product and repair support.2. Get out a few demo-units that you write off on sales once you take them out of the box and book to demo ledger.3. Sell Demo units with 40% discount, regardless of the margin new ones get, so that people don't feel ripped off.Bad business:1. Struggle to sell, because you're not competing on _any_ of the other points with companies in and near your country.2. Get a few Demo units that need to stay on the sales ledger.3. Try to shift Demo units at laughable discounts because you don't have the budget to write them off initially and complain about your small margins when people call you out on it.

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 11:35:30 pm
content: FWIW, today, TEquipment are clearing out Rigol demos at 50% off and no, you don't get any other discount on top of that.Couple of DSA815s left at $680.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 08:47:21 am
content: Quote from: orin on July 04, 2017, 11:35:30 pmThatis an example of what people here would expect on ex-demo equipment.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 02:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: I4E on June 30, 2017, 02:51:20 pmRefurbished Keysight gear that (like you said your Rigol items are) is less than a couple of years old not only looks like new, it also comes with full warranty (usually 3 years) (and for older kit which comes with shorter warranty you can buy additional coverage for actually quite modest prices). Most of these instruments have been returns/loaners/demo units and are therefore in pristine condition, and if not then Keysight puts them back into pristine condition. Plus you get the original box and accessories.manuals (often brand new).And still they're often less than 50% off list price.Frankly, if you can't afford to give something notably better than the few lousy percents then that suggests that your financial situation must be pretty precarious, which is a big worry when the only warranty you offer is one provided by your business which may well be out of business during the running period of that warranty. That's a very big red flag right there.BTW: you claim this is refurbished equipment. Is this Rigol Refurbished, or by you? If the latter, could you please describe the refurbishment process?

author: gmb42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 02:37:54 pm
content: I'm again astonished by the (to me at least) nasty criticism about this sort of offer from a vendor. If it's too rich for you just pass or if you must increase your post count just leave a message stating as such. Do you also comment on every over-priced Ebay auction?Calling into question the vendor's businesses viability is unnecessary and based on a simple offer of a price reduction of ex-demo units is likely to be ill-informed. Similarly all the other suggestions on how to run their business are unnecessary.Following the lead and descending into the personal, why are you even bothering Wuerstchenhund, you would never lower yourself to buy a Rigol?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 01:02:54 am
content: I agree that descending into speculation, especially with a malevolent tone, is completely uncalled for.The answer to the thread title question: "Would Refurbished Ex Demo Rigol units be of interest?" is a qualified "yes".That qualification could be bluntly expressed as "Not at the level of discount being offered".The "Why not?" question that might be wanting to be asked can be best answered by these two threads (which were started after this one).....https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/rigol-clearance-stock/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/up-to-85-off-high-performance-spectrum-analysers/

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 02:13:46 pm
content: Quote from: gmb42 on July 07, 2017, 02:37:54 pmIt works both ways, why are you even reading this thread if you don't like it? If you can't stand reading criticism or people pointing out legitimate issues with the offering or asking questions then just skip over it. No-one forces you to read it.Fact is the vendor made a public offer and people are fully within their rights to state their opinion. As a business, if you can't stand being scrutinized then you shouldn't be in business, simple as that.QuoteNot if your only warranty is provided by the vendor like in this case, because if the seller goes bust then the warranty is useless. A not completely irrelevant point for something that was just some ~10% cheaper than a brand new item with full manufacturer warranty. That means the vendor's financial situation is somewhat relevant, and statements saying that they can't afford more than a few percentage off suggests that the situation might well be precarious (BTST too many times). Which makes a warranty provided by the vendor a somewhat risky proposition which should be taking into account.Also, the seller claims the gear is "refurbished" while the text suggests that this is merely used equipment, not refurbished, which is why I asked for details. A lot of dodgy sellers are selling used gear as "refurbished" when they merely wiped off the dust.QuoteBesides having owned Rigol gear in the past myself, the main reason I reply is because this forum does have a fair amount of newbies who probably have no idea what a realistic price is for 2nd hand gear. You might not care but I don't think it's helpful letting them run into getting ripped off without a warning.The question is why are *you* even bothering? Do you have any stakes in that business, are the owners your friends, or are you just worried because after Brexit it'll probably be gone anyways?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 03:26:39 pm
content: QuoteDoesn't good manners come into this? "Those prices are far too high for me" is one thing and "You have no idea how to run a business" is just armchair warrior speak. Would you say any of this stuff to someone's face? If not, it has no place here either.QuotePerhaps because there was some interest in a possible deal. Which is less likely to happen as the aggressive, verging on spiteful, attacks increase.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 08:49:40 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 10, 2017, 03:26:39 pm"Good manners" (which are a cultural construct) by what standards? Be aware this isn't a British forum, this is a forum with a truly global audience, with various cultures which all have slightly different opinions what make "good manners" (for example some cultures are more direct and it's considered polite to say what you think and being frank, while another may present a superficial but excessive politeness just to stab you in the back when you turn around).QuoteBesides these "quotes" are pretty much your interpretation (probably because you are already pre-opinioned), to answer your question: no, I wouldn't have problems giving my observations face to face. BTDT many times.And frankly, if you really have hesitations telling a vendor if a price is too high for you then you should probably seek professional counselling. Seriously.QuoteSo what stops you making a deal then? I guess the vendor will gladly sell you these items for the listed price, irrespective of the comments.But I would suggest, instead of falling into silly hyperbole, you should spend a moment considering that not everyone asking questions or commenting on pricing is out to "get them", in fact you should seriously consider that maybe there are objective reasons for questioning the offer. For example, anyone who even knows the faintest bits about the T&M market knows that the offered discounts are ridiculously low (that's a given). Or that someone who acually has run and coached businesses may have a better understanding how precarious many smaller businesses operate, and with reason becomes a bit wary when a vendor publicly comments of affordability of what at the end are already miniscule discounts. Which, as stated before, is very relevant when your warranty depends on the vendor being in business throughout the warranty period. Or that there's a difference between a "refurbished" product and an used one, which means claiming a used piece of kit has been refurbished when it hasn't is fraud.In short, you should always consider that your simplistic explanation of "aggression" and "spitefulness" may be wrong, that things are a bit more complicated than you imagine, and that maybe there are things you just don't know. And considering that I'm not the only one criticizing the offer, there's also the old saying "no smoke without fire".

author: I4E
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 12:31:53 pm
content: I will comment more later but you misunderstood the warranty.As distributors we bought the units brand new for our demo pool. You can see the age of the units in the post next to the title of the units. All Rigol units come with a 3 year manufacturer's warranty . What I was saying was that for the first 12 months of the warranty for these particular units we would support it meaning that you could send it back to us for repair here in Stockport. However if we did go bust (which we aren't going to ) you would still be able to send it back to Rigol for the repair as the units are under warranty. If you as the customer don't want to send the unit to us at all during the warranty period left on the unit then by all means you could still send it directly to Rigol.ThanksJoy

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 04:36:48 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 05, 2017, 08:47:21 amYeah, but it was a one day, end of year, inventory clearance special. If you got one at that price, think of it as winning the lottery. The DSA815 was almost tempting, all I had to do was add it to my cart and pay for it, but my HP 8568A boat anchor kicks its butt as far as phase noise is concerned and while it continues to function, I see no reason to replace it for my usage.TEquipment also had a 30% off Rigol sale - but the 1054Z was excluded. Don't expect deep discounts on the 1054Z - it looks like there is no margin there for the distributors.Maybe I4E can beat up on Rigol and get some better discounts for the ex-demo equipment

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:28:29 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 10, 2017, 03:26:39 pmI think he has a point. Ex-demo equipment is usually discounted much further. I think the problem is that there are way too many Rigol dealers and many higher end equipment dealers use Rigol to fill in the blanks and not concentrate much on selling Rigol gear so they are not having a large turnover on Rigol gear in general. For example: the local Lecroy dealer over here also sells Rigol in order to try and keep customers who find Lecroy too expensive or doesn't match their needs.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 03:31:58 pm
content: QuoteThat is no doubt a problem for the vendor, but it has no relevance to the portion of my post that you quoted.QuoteWhat point would that be? That if you ask a price perceived as not being a stunning deal you are fair game for whatever abusive comments the faceless wonders deign to heap on you?It is no different to some woman, particularly a politician, attracting the horrendous rape and murder comments on twitter/facebook. Those posters really wouldn't say that to their face (which has been proven - it is not supposition) and it's being able to hide behind and screen along with being effectively anonymous that lets them think it's allowed. You read this and subconsciously its just text on a screen, a game, no real people involved. But there are. It is not a culture thing 'telling it like it is', it is simply not appreciating that you are conversing with an actual human with real feelings.Just be polite. Doesn't cost anything and if you're wrong there's no harm done. The only reason to post the stuff we see in this thread is to feel superior to your target.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 09:33:28 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 10, 2017, 03:26:39 pmOK, let's make this conversation compatible with the BS (British standard):"We have a bloody nice weather, E mate?""Sure, lad, its been only raining for 14 days strait.""..."Conversation ends, they run out of topics they can discuss with good manners.