Best handheld dmm, at any price? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 10:18:40 am
content: If price were not a consideration, which handheld DMM would you most like to have (for electronics work) , and why?

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 10:43:17 am
content: Any dmm should (imho) be:1) Reliable2) AccurateOn top of that: features and resolution.I like the Metrawatt 30M but the same reliability and build quality can be found in the 2+ at 1/6 of the price, to me it has sufficient accuracyand features to do a lot of troubleshooting/repair.So that is what I have and I'am happy with it, if a 30M shows up cheap I might go for it though, but to be honest I don't need it.

author: Jon.C
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 12:03:09 pm
content: I have a good offer to buy a METRIX MTX 3292What do you think about this multimeter?

author: joseph nicholas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 12:03:53 pm
content: Any meter with a lifetime guarantee. Well, because I don't want to be thinking about destroying something while I doing experiments, trouble shooting, etc. Also something with a local distributor so I could return it for an exchange unit, no questions asked.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 12:15:23 pm
content: Fluke 289 is one of the best DMMs. Keysight DMMs are good, too.https://www.keysight.com/en/pc-1000004008%3Aepsg%3Apgr/handheld-digital-multimeter-clamp-and-calibrator-meters?nid=-34618.0&cc=CZ&lc=engNot sure which one is the best.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 12:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 31, 2018, 10:18:40 amOne with at least 4.5 digits and (at least) 10A current measurement range. This way you can measure low currents with enough resolution without the chance of blowing a fuse. Fast (=instant) continuity is also a must have otherwise you keep guessing whether you made good contact or not.However if it is for use on a bench I wouldn't want a handheld DMM anyway:1) Because they need a change of batteries at the least convenient moment. My bench DMMs are on for entire days when I work on a project.2) Because they get in front of other equipment if you tilt them up to read the display.3) A handheld isn't stackable with other equipment so ends up taking lots of desk space.I have a Keysight U1241B handheld DMM which I use a few times per year at a customer or to measure mains voltages. The continiuty however isn't instant.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 12:51:18 pm
content: I thought this debate was done and dusted now:This one(500,000 counts, 0.02% DC accuracy, Cat IV 1000V, fast everything, bar graph, dual display, USB data logging option...andaround half the price of a Fluke 87V!)

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 12:51:18 pmThat's a very good meter (have a 867 myself), but it is also an enormous heavy brick (could be safely used as a weapon if required) and it doesn't measure temperature. Also the 500 000 counts work only on DC volts (the extra digit can be displayed by pressing the triangle button), nothing else. Other ranges are only 50 000 counts. That could matter to someone.EDIT: 867 doesn't measure temperature, 869 does.There are also few things I would change on the user interface, but that's more a matter of personal preference.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:20:37 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 31, 2018, 01:05:49 pmYes it does. You can attach two temperature probes to it simultaneously with dual display (select T1/T2 range on the dial)Quote from: janoc on March 31, 2018, 01:05:49 pmMoot, because the other ranges aren't 0.02% accurate* so the extra digit wouldn't do anything anyway. 50,000 counts is still a lot of accuracy in a handheld.(*) eg. Ohms range is "only" 0.07%Quote from: janoc on March 31, 2018, 01:05:49 pmOK, I'll concede that.

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:28:35 pm
content: I would go for the usual ones:- Fluke (even though i don't like the 287/289)- Keysight- Gossen- BrymenAfter all i think it all depends on: What do you need?A Fluke289 is probaly not a good choice for a building site, while a Fluke 179 might be better there.A Fluke 179 on the other hand might no be realy usefull at measuring very low currents (uA). And so on....Edit: My Choice: Keysight U1282. I think it's a over all good multimeter that can also be used for self defence

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:33:12 pm
content: OK, I have a doubt. I was just looking at the datasheet and the diode test voltage of the BM869S is listed as 2V.Can it light up a white LED?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:42:41 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 01:33:12 pmDiode test is a weak point of the 869s. It has a low test voltage and it doesn't beep on short circuit.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:47:05 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 31, 2018, 01:42:41 pmI'll withdraw my vote if it can't light up a white LED.

author: hexreader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:47:17 pm
content: Best DMM at any price - must be Fluke, surely.Most fun at any price - I fancy buying EEVBLOG 121 GW.Only problem is.... can't see any reputable place to buy one... and EEVBLOG shop is out of stockThere is a 121GW on sale on ebay, but I would rather poke my eye out with a rusty nail than buy from ebayDisclaimer: IMHO

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 01:57:28 pm
content: I just saw that Gossen's 1,200,000 count meter is discontinued, replaced with a feeble 310,000 counter. I guess that one's out then.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 02:04:12 pm
content: Actually I will argue against the BM869S as the best. IMHO, the BM525 is a better multimeter for electronics and overall use. You give up accuracy but gain logging capabilities in the meter, up to 20 times per second and 87,000 records. You can also log two values at once, like dual temperatures, or frequency and AC voltage.I would also argue in favor of the 121GW except it is still not ready for prime time and my experience with a multimeter made by that company has been much less than stellar.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 02:13:07 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on March 31, 2018, 01:40:06 pmIt's discontinued but price is no object and there was no time constraints, so that could be solved. I looked at the Ultra that replaces it. I was not impressed with it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 02:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 01:33:12 pmNever understood the LED thing. Mine is 3V out and can light the white LED I added to my test box.I like the two voltages on the 121GW. At 15ish volts, it would cover pretty much every high voltage diode I use. I wonder if you forget to change modes and put it on your sensitive MOS inputs, what happens...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 02:29:45 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 31, 2018, 02:18:12 pmOk, then.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 02:56:15 pm
content: Here are the "best" meters:https://cozzy.org/best-multimeters/Can you guess what meter comes out on top?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 03:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2018, 12:16:32 pmI much prefer handheld for bench use as you can put it wherever convenient. Most gear is on a shelf above so getting in front isn't an issue.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 03:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 31, 2018, 03:15:53 pmAnd which meter do you personally favor and why?

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 03:44:24 pm
content: cozzy.org..I don't understand people who buy the Fluke 87-V, it's no an electronics meter, it's an electricians meter! All it really has over other meters is "brand recognition", but at the expensive ofmanyuseful functions, higher accuracy, more counts, better screen... And I'd bet you most brand meters are just as safe, be it Brymen, Hioki, Sanwa, Gossen, Amprobe, Flir, Kyoritsu...).We had them at university, would personally never buy one. Not the mention the $700 USD price tag in Norway.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:02:37 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on March 31, 2018, 03:44:24 pmIn general, I've seen companies who have a product certified, then change the design and not want to pay to have it certified again. I wonder with UNI-T for example, they have certified some of their meters. You can pick up two UT61Es, one with MOVs, one without. IMO, these practices dilute the value of having a product certified.I suspect (again no data) that larger companies will keep up with their certifications. We know Brymen for example released the S version of the 869 to support the current standards. I suspect the Fluke 87V has also evolved to meet changes to the standards. Again, just a guess on my part.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:33:07 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 01:20:37 pmYes, corrected that - 867 (which looks almost identical) doesn't measure temperature and VFD, 869 does.Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 01:20:37 pmSure, no issues with that but the 500 000 counts are being mentioned as a major selling point of this meter.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:37:25 pm
content: HiI already have my dream dmm........Fluke 187Sadly, you can no longer get them

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 01:33:12 pmMy 867 certainly can, even with old batteries - just tested it. Measured the test voltage and it was more like a 2.98V and not 2V. Unless they changed the circuitry for this in 869, I would say it can do it too (the meters are almost identical).

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:41:06 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 31, 2018, 01:42:41 pmThat's not true, at least on my 867 (almost identical meter, just doesn't measure temperature). It has 3V diode test voltage and it does beep on shorts (and the beeper is pretty fast at that) - you just need to select the continuity, not diode mode (don't know many meters beeping in diode mode).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 31, 2018, 04:37:58 pmBrymen lists the 867 test voltage as 2.0V, just like the 869. I guess I'd be safe buying one then (assuming I ever feel the need to buy a high-end meter).

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 31, 2018, 04:41:06 pmFrom memory my 869s does not report the forward voltage for any LED over 2 V. It may light the LED, but the display shows OL.I think the idea of beeping in diode mode is that you can probe around a circuit board looking at forward junctions in transistors etc. and the meter will beep if any junction is a short circuit instead of a diode. The beep is handy to save having to switch your eyes back and forth between the probes and the meter display. Some people really like that feature, although I have not had cause to use it myself.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 04:55:47 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 31, 2018, 04:50:35 pmCorrect. See in the photo below.Quote from: IanB on March 31, 2018, 04:50:35 pmHaven't seen that in a meter yet. I thought you were referring to normal continuity beep (which it has, of course).Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2018, 04:46:19 pmSee for yourself. The batteries in the 867 are still the original ones from two or three years ago when I got it (it doesn't get much use).EDIT: just realized that the debate was mentioning both the "normal" 867/869 and the newer "S" versions. For the record, mine is the "old" (not "S"). Maybe the S version has the diode test different, caveat emptor - can't find the datasheet for the old version now.

author: gertux
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 05:00:16 pm
content: Got a brymen 869 last month, very happy with the meter, much bang for your buck.The only negative is like already mentioned the size, but as I use it on the bench 99% of the time that's OK.I use my old Fluke 23 when I wander about.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 05:05:27 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 31, 2018, 04:55:47 pmIt's a feature of the 87V.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 05:06:21 pm
content: I drew up a big spreadsheet of 30 odd meters available in the UK and selected the Keysight U1241C.1. Constant input impedance unlike some other meters.2. Fast continuity. Much faster than Fluke recent offerings. It's instant.3. Torch and backlight so I can use it buggering around in a car.4. IP67 casing so you can use it buggering around in a car when it's raining.5. you can knock it off the bench and shrug.6. Probe alerts if you plug the wrong ones in.7. Goes down to uA, mV8. Does frequency quite happily up to about 10MHz9. Display is AMAZING. Much better than the 87V.10. 10,000 count. 40 readings/sec. Good enough.11. Runs on AA batteries. No 9v ones or shit ones. And they last for ages.12. Came with a USB opto-isolated data cable, unlike everyone else who charges you lots for one.13. Comes with probes that aren't shit.14. Orange. I like orange.15. Analogue bargraph16. Built in thermometer which is really handy.17. Keysight support and service is actually pretty amazing. I can just phone someone in the UK and get support instantly.18. Proper CAT ratings unlike shitty no brands.19. Peak / min / max20. Programmable 10/100M input impedance.21. You can turn off all the annoying beepy shit22. Not an OLED screen so it might last more than a couple of years.And half the cost of a Fluke 87V...

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 05:17:37 pm
content: I'm going to be bold and disagree with everyone. I do not know of a perfect dmm that does absolutely everything I want it to do from an electronics point of view.I think a combination of handheld units is going to be the best option right now.I have a Fluke 8060a, 87V, Brymen 869 and the new eevblog 121GW and I think I have decent coverage of features with the lot.If you forced me to choose only one meter to keep, I'd choose the 869.If we're talking specs, I think the Gossen Metrahit Energy looks like it might be closer to an ideal meter than the 869, but I've never used one, only seen Dave's video and its literature.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 05:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 31, 2018, 05:05:27 pmAh ok. Never had a Fluke around apart from the 101 and that one is a bit oddball with its various autodetection features.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 05:57:06 pm
content: The quest for the best meter when ive bought the Gossen 28s and 29s was to have the highest resolution available, sturdiness and stability over aging / time, in my country Canada Quebec they dont cost too much when calibrating them, sure they are rare has hell, tried the more recent metrahit series, one word erk they dont even come close to the old series of metrahit 28 29 and 30 models. the biggest drawback are the accessories, the usb or rs232 interfaces are more rare and pricey too ... the clean and good Gossens sell often as 300 - 500 $ usd range, was lucky to find them aroun 250$ each, but the interfaces costed me a fortune (400$ just for 2x 232 and 1x usb interface)The most wanted feature i want is one dc range and one ac range, absolutely no mv range, i measure tons of testpoint voltages between few millivolts and 20 - 30 volts ... that was my first search.Had high hopes for the EEVblog gw121, still waiting for the troubles to get solved over time and new batches produced..I had the chance to find a Fluke 189 because i needed one more meter, i love the fact you dont totally open the meter case to change the fuses and batteries, if i can buy one more ill do it right away, They are found in the 200 - 250$ usd range, ir interface around 100$ usdIve seen Chauvin Arnoux "AKA Metrix" top models, i personally hate the leads positions and flip look a like startreck casing, but they seem well built and precise, calibration procedures and price unknowns ...I had Brymen 857s model, very good and fast, i hated the casing of the 869, and the tilt stand wobling. But stop telling its an 500k count, its a real 50k count with an 500k enhanced count in very few functions, sell around 175 - 280$ usd depends where you buy them, ir interface around 100$Had in the past an Mastech 22000 count model, with easy fuses and battery acess, it was well built too, under 100$ usd, bargain at the time on DXTried the fluke 28x of a friend, hated them, too high priced ...Uni-T blah, very few models a worth to buy... prices blahIf you new at this : stay with the common and reliable brands, thoses who are tested by the eevblog members, the teardowns, the encountered problems ... the parts disponibility if sometimes needed, flukes are the luckyest one of the loot.Ex : syba fuses cost a lot each, the flukes ones are very good and lower priced ... 5-8$ instead of 10-30$ original syba fuses.Brymen have a good cost quality ratio, check for the S versions they are more recent and have better backlight, i would go for them as a start, calibrations procedures are known here and are available, Fluke and Gossen need special softwares, dont know for Mastech...Some Keysight are pain in the @%*( to change fuses, calibrations price and procedurei dont even check them, prices 200 - 350$ usdhere's my 2 cents of experiences. pricing is relative, they change and varies a lot Alixpress, DX, Ebay ...My best meter would be an Fluke 8846a in an portable dmm case .... loll

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 06:11:25 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on March 31, 2018, 04:37:25 pmI have the 189 which I think is also a very nice meter. Agree that it's a shame they don't offer a basic meter like these anymore. I doubt they were very popular with electricians. You can get a stripped 87V or the over the top and slow 289. That's why I like the 869s. It's just a good all around basic meter and still my favorite of all the meters I have looked at.I'm going to go out on a limb and say I still like the UT181A and if they would make a better version of it, I would buy one. As it is, unable to use the meter when charging that odd ball battery, lens is easy to scratch, typical UNI-T ESD problems etc, I give it a no go. On the plus side, I like the Fluke 289 interface and the fact that they out right stole it. They even improved on the 289s UI in some respects. The meter is very stable with temperature. Graphing and boot times are much better than the 289. Like the BM869s, the 181A also has two thermocouple inputs. The bargraph is one of the fastest and is bidirectional. That is just slick.The Gossen Ultra wouldn't be too bad if it was not so sensitive to RF and static fields. Well, and don't get near it with a magnetic hanger. And battery life with BT is very short. I think if it were your only meter and you used it every day, you could master navigating the menus. Don't expect any service. I understand Gossen was working to improve it. It looks nice on the shelf.I still like my cheapo CEM DT9939. It's slow. The bargraph updates with the display making it worthless. There is a bug with the decimal point when it changes ranges. Overall quality is not the best. Rotary switch may crack if you loan it to someone wanting to turn it past the dead stops. It's certainly not the most robust meter I have looked at. When they were selling for $120, it was a very good deal. Like the RF link. Draws very little current and can log remotely for extended times.That should give you meter connoisseurs some ammo...

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 06:16:14 pm
content: On the old gossen, i did not perceive the rf noises or sensitivity problems, but for the fun of it, the 28 and 28 have an inside plastic shield with an screw who touch an ground plane , i simply added aluminum auto-adhesive foil up to the screw, never had any problems has joeqsmith mentioned.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 06:42:23 pm
content: The best multimeter is one that measures everything at highest precision imaginable, yet costs nothing. With same success you can ask about any tool, like automobile and get wild spectrum of answers - from sport cars till trucks and not only

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 07:17:22 pm
content: If money would not be an option, I would buy the:Gossen M273C MetraHIT IM XTRA All-In-One Multimeter & Isolationsmessgerät & Wicklungstest & DataloggerEUR 1.660,00 + TAXAn All-In-One METRAHIT XTRA IM with 30,000 digits: milliohm and meter, data logger and insulation resistance and winding tester. Compact and multifunctional for field use: An airplane cockpit also be used advantageously as in other constricted locations where else have multiple test sets are used.The multimeter is a portable, extremely robust Vielfachmessgerat designed for field use. It is suitable for maintenance, service and diagnostics of electrical machines and drives and systems, for. As in the automotive, avionics, energy and automation.The All-In-One UNIT is an insulation tester, milliohm, Windungsschlusstester and Universal multimeter. It is ideal for security screening and diagnosis of electric and hybrid vehicles and all types of electric machines.There, in conjunction with an optional coil test adapter Windungsschlussmessungen.Features and highlights:Multifunction deviceMilliohm with 4-wire connection (Kelvin measurement) of 200 mA or 1AIsolation tester with test voltages of 10 to 1000 VWindungsschlussmessungWinding test with 1000 V test voltageSafety-related testing for electrical devices, drives and installations with only one field device suitableHigh-voltage system test according to UN ECE R100Insulation resistance measurement according to EN 61557-2 / VDE 0413-2R low installation test according to EN 61557-4 / VDE 0413-4Bondingtest or potential equalization measurement, for example on aircraft outer skin (lightning protection - Ableittest / "Wick Test")Wide isolation level measurement to 3.1 G with external voltage detection, test voltages: 50 V, 100 V, 250 V, 500 V, 1000 V according to EN 61557-2 / VDE 0413-2DAR: PI:4-wire Milliohm with Kelvin connection and 200 mA or 1 A measurement current for the precise measurement of very small resistors with 1 Resolution2-wire R low measurement with 200 mA test according to EN 61557-4 / VDE 0413-4RMS Measurement TRMSAC / AC + DC voltage / current to 10/100 kHzLow pass filter AC, AC + DCDirect current measurementCurrent measurement with pliers sensors: The transfer ratio is CLIP of 1: 1000 and adjustable is taken into account in the amps display 1 to the firstcapacitance measurementPrecision temperature measurement ° C, ° F for RTD and TC-K sensorsDiode measurement flow K to 5.1 V) and continuity testacoustic signalingDetection of min / max values; DATA HoldData logger thanks to built-in memory and real time clock, and for individual measurementsThe push / print function transmits readings by pressing a button on the application softwareProgrammable sequences for test routinesColor graphic display with analog bar graphModular power supply: Lithium standard quick-change batteryoptional WPC module for inductive charging and power module with USB interface changes without measuring circuit interruption due Touch protected modular jackAutomatic blocking sockets (ABS) for the current inputProbe with function keys START (ISO) and STOREIP52 dust and drip-proof, removable rubber holsterBluetooth or Wireless LAN connection, USB with optional power moduleDelivery:1 METRAHIT IM XTRA with protective rubber cover1 test probe with a START function and STORE1 pair of safety leads KS17-2 type with 4 mm probe1 pair Kelvin terminals KC41 lithium polymer quick-change battery with Micro-USB charging socket1 USB power supply (5VDC 2A) with wires on micro-USB charging plug1 Software IZYTRON.IQ BUSINESS starter for documentation, preparation of audit reports and graphical analysis of the measurements1 Quick Start Guide German / English1 instruction manual in German and English (Download)1 DAkkS calibration1 Hard case for accommodating the multimeter with accessories

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 07:22:30 pm
content: I like my 87V. Tried 289 at lab, it's horrible and painful.This thread should be vote, no?Speed and convinience of 87V is the reason to have handheld for me.For accuracy even rusty 200$ old 34401A will leave no room for even fancy handhelds with all those digits, so that is rarely reason 1 in handhelds.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 07:23:44 pm
content: That Gossen M273C MetraHIT IM XTRA.... Yes please.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 07:51:13 pm
content: I have a pile of high end multimeters, my most used meters are:1) Keysight U1252B, it do the job, but the user interface design is silly and I do not use the rechargeable battery. Maybe it is time to switch to one of my other Keysight meters (U1272A/U1282A) they are not used in a fixed setup anymore.2) Gossen Energy, I never blow fuses on this one and then it can measure real power.3) Fluke 189, my favorite Fluke meter (I also have a 289 and some other)

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 08:09:22 pm
content: I've been using a good old Agilent/KS U1241B for ages now.. my other is a BM869s.. I'll probly make Dave's contraption my third when he gets unburdened from it / maybe 2nd revHoly shit that gossen above this post... yes please /droolI mean if you really want at any price.. +1 that gossen.. practical, the 3 above i'd go with

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 08:38:51 pm
content: For lab use the hand held multimeter that feels closest to a bench meter to me in performance is the Hioki DT4282 60,000 count meter. It has the fastest auto ranging that I have ever seen in a handheld (it puts my Keysight U1282A to shame in that regard). Hioki are designed and built in Japan and make their own custom meter chip and it’s speed and build quality are second to none. The Keysight is more rugged and configurable but it feels like an electricians meter in it’s performance compared to the Hioki which feels like a bench meter. I use both every day and they are both fantastic but I reach for the Hioki first when I want to measure capacitance or to do particularly fine equipment calibration.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 10:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on March 31, 2018, 04:37:25 pmAgree, I’ve had two 189’s and a 289, sold off the 289 as I much preferd the 189. The 187/189 I think are some of the best Fluke ever had.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 11:11:50 pm
content: Gossen 28 29 capacitance up to 30,000 ufFluke 187 189 capacitance up to 50,000ufheard but not tested, that Hioki dmm are rounding some numbers in ac ranges?Fluke in the 8x series past the rev 3 has lost me, they are switched to ac at first, you have to put them in dc pffff hate that a lot, have them at my job but managed to push them to someone else loll while retaining the old revision 3 to myself, the only quirk with thoses meters is to clean the switch contactors and pcb traces, had strange beeps while turned off ??The Gossen M273 seems way overkill for day to day uses ?? mostly made for industrial use, and the price ouuuutch an arm and leg, at this price you have very good bench meters

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 11:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: The Soulman on March 31, 2018, 10:43:17 amDon't forget speed. I must admit I undervalued that aspect for a long time. Having to wait for a good reading for a few seconds each time starts to grate after a while. It's what a meter like the 87V does very well and why I keep going back to it.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 11:17:31 pm
content: yep i agree mr scram, speed maybe an serious issue, the old gossen are slightly slow, 2rdgs pers secs if i recall, fluke 3 rdgs, but too fast maybe an problem too ??But i use all of them for data logging (Fluke and Gossen) theses times i use Fluke more, faster to un-snap the ir interface

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 11:45:18 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 31, 2018, 11:17:31 pmMy main concern is how long it takes to stabilize the reading. The U1272A I have can take forever to settle on a reading when checking lowish voltages like those of a AA battery. It finally reaches the same reading as the 87V, but having to hold the probes in place for 10 seconds or more quickly becomes a chore.Admittedly, it's much quicker when other voltages are involved. I haven't seen similar behaviour in the 87V though.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2018, 11:52:11 pm
content: mikeselectricstuffYou have this to help:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/but for the why, youll have to do your own search thru feedback and toughts ... we have different views over what we do and how we use them ...In the end you are the one to use a brand over this or that, price, precision, hate or love fuctions, speeds, practicality etc ... an never ending list loll

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 12:36:33 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 31, 2018, 03:20:30 pmI currently have a Fluke 87 MK.1 and a Mk.3 (before they did the stupid AC A default thing), both are starting to show their age so potentially looking at new toys.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 12:57:58 am
content: The speed of the Hioki is very appealing and a definite upgrade from the 87, but lack of a bargraph seems a silly omission. Though thinking about it I can't remember the last time I used one, and the fast digit update goes some way to compensate.Also can't i find any UK stockists - showing as discontinued at RS

author: 4thDoctorWhoFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 12:59:21 am
content: I really still like my Fluke 77 (original series, not II or III or IV).When I just have to grab a meter and do some troubleshooting, I always seem to gravitate towards the 77.Sure, it does not have all the bells & whistles but it's accurate and fast. Plus, I just came across a NOS one on the auction site.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 01:04:56 am
content: Quote from: 4thDoctorWhoFan on April 01, 2018, 12:59:21 amThat was my first "real" DMM maybe 30 years ago- died a while ago but that unfused 10A range was sometimes useful!

author: 4thDoctorWhoFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 01:24:00 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 01, 2018, 01:04:56 amAnd who needs that RMS AC rubbish.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 08:25:21 am
content: Used 87V, 189 and 287, still 189 gets my vote, too bad its discontinued.Also sizes wise .. the beauty, the beast and the brick.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 08:47:38 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 01, 2018, 08:25:21 amThe 189 rules, but 87V and 289 aren't too shabby either,investing in any or all three of these meters answers the OPs question"Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?"i.e. thread over

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 08:59:29 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 01, 2018, 08:47:38 amImo, 87V is more suitable as electrician's DMM, while 189 & 287/8 series are more for electronics, packed with tons of bells & whistles too.Personally the only thing that I don't like about 87V is, it uses 9V battery, while two others using the AA cells which is most favorable.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:18:46 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 01, 2018, 08:59:29 amAfter copping a few very bad leakers with AA and AAA powered meters, including the 189, the isolated 9 volt battery compartment in the 87V is a no brainerEven if it leaks badly, it will cost you a new battery and 60c generic connector, and the meter is ready for work

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:22:12 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 01, 2018, 09:18:46 amI've only ever seen batteries leak when they are flat, so for something in daily use probably not an issue - I do always take them out of stuff I don't use often.Good point about the replaceability of a PP3 connector.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:25:28 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 01, 2018, 09:18:46 amActually for me is not the leaking as I use heavily LSD cells in all my T&M gadgets.Its the power capacity, 9 Volt carries a little tiny energy, and when the low battery BATT displayed, usually it wont last very long compared to AA cells, as the DMM will still work for quite sometimes.Its practicality matter especially at the field work.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:30:52 am
content: OK couldn't resist the speed of the Hioki - just ordered from Ebay Japan - stay tuned....

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:32:43 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 01, 2018, 09:22:12 amDuracell’s leak just because it’s Thursday. I saw some in Waitrose the other day that had leaked in the pack. Poundland do better than that!Only the wired PP3 connectors are replaceable. Some of the things use cheap folded metal clips (UT61E comes to mind).

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:45:47 am
content: Eveready Enerjizzers leak any day because they canFWIW the 87V with it's little 9v batteryhas a diode test voltage that leaves most meters in the dust7v IIRCOut of all the meters I've had, almost none of the 9 volt ones leaked,and any that did was an easy clean upJust wait till a 189 or 187 goes Leak City, the stuff will eat it's way along the battery connectors and straight to the boardIf the board survives, just pray you do too, once you see what the eaten away battery replacement parts cost

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 10:31:18 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on March 31, 2018, 07:17:22 pmBasic DC accuracy of 0.15%+10? 2% on ohms range?Oh, wait, it's mainly an insulation tester.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 10:41:58 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 01, 2018, 09:30:52 amIt certainly has some impressive measurement specs.Can also measure AC volts+DC offset simultaneously - nice! (Also min+max of that offset AC waveform)But, ... 10 ms response time on the continuity test. A lot of people might see that as a deal-breaker.(Me? I think could live with it)Quote from: Synthtech on March 31, 2018, 08:38:51 pmThey actually list it in the "Benchtop multimeters" section on their web site:https://www.hioki.com/en/products/list/?category=14

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 02:11:17 pm
content: https://www.hioki.com/en/products/detail/?product_key=5570DT4282 is probably top quality, but it has no bargraph.

author: mzacharias
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 04:39:12 pm
content: I have several 87's series I, III, V - just acquired an 87IV.I know they were unpopular at introduction, changed to the 189 type, and the 87 re-introduced as the series V, but I do a lot of audio and the AC+DCand dB functionality is really handy for audio.Still lights a white LED and reads the diode voltage drop by the way. I found that a bit surprising.Still getting the feel of it, but so far - I like it!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 04:47:19 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 01, 2018, 02:11:17 pmNeither do bench multimeters.(But yeah, that's a bummer. If it had a bargraph it might take the #1 prize...)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 05:08:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 01, 2018, 04:47:19 pmMany modern bench multimeters have bargraphs. My Keysight 34461A and Vici VC8145 both have bar graphs.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 05:18:09 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 01, 2018, 09:30:52 amSo we can expect an in-depth video review?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 06:08:04 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on April 01, 2018, 05:18:09 pmCan't promise in-depth but certainly at least first impressions and obviously a teardown

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 06:22:16 pm
content: Only for strong hands: HP 3458A.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 06:42:31 pm
content: not handheld eh ?

author: l84coffee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 07:24:46 pm
content: I just purchased a 87-IV also.I do old radio restoration and other hobbyist electronics, now that I'm retired.I have a 179, which is great for minor electronic work and great for electrical.I was going to get a Keysight 1252B but decided even though I could afford one, it was more than I wanted to spend. I also considered the 87V but thought the 87IV was a better meter.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 07:46:04 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on April 01, 2018, 06:22:16 pmNot sure that counts as "handheld".How about this?

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 08:41:59 pm
content: Profitest ? I had a profitest in for repair. The selftest tests the relais according the display. Nice, it passed, strange because I had removed the relais....For me portable enough, my wet dream the Keithley DMM7510, If I ever win the lottery I buy one. My main meter at this moment is the meter I trust above everything, my Keitley 2000. Ultrafast in everything, stable as a rock. (but but I love my Brymen 869s too)Are there really people who use the bargraph ?Must say that I have looked at the Hioki DT4282 when I bought the Brymen and if money was no option, I would have bought it.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 09:06:14 pm
content: In my limited knowledge and experience I have found that 3 of my meters cover everything I need all doing different things better than the other. I could lose my 2 cheaper meters and still be covered all round but the other 3 all have a specific thing they excel at. I don't think there is a meter that does "everything" better than all others.If I was prepared to accept average results from a meter from the rest of my days then my Fluke 177 is the best "all rounder" that I have. If I need more accuracy, resolution or data logging or things like that then I have other meters that are "better".

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 11:21:00 pm
content: One practical function was an variable tone beep before the bar graph apparition, i had one on an wavetek hd160 aka beckman industrial, and on an Fieldpiece hb7x ?It was very practical to the fact you dont have to peek the display value but hear it while probing, it was very fast triggering too ...Would be fun to hack an meter to do that again ...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2018, 11:55:44 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on April 01, 2018, 08:41:59 pmYes.The bar graph can be much faster to read when you're measuring a lot of similar values, especially if you fix the range. Apart from the easier visual aspect (position vs. numbers) the bargraph is usually updates faster than the main display.I guess it's less useful if the settling time of the digital numbers isveryfast.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 02:07:57 am
content: I thought Hioki lcd weren't so good?

author: WhichEnt2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 03:11:08 am
content: Not just the bargraph.DT4282 even do not have an avg in max-min function, according to the manual.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 07:51:44 am
content: Quote from: WhichEnt2 on April 02, 2018, 03:11:08 amIsn't that the same as the DC value which is shown in DC+AC mode?

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 08:11:06 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on April 02, 2018, 02:07:57 amMy Hioki LCD is as clear as my Keysight but with a much better backlight and they entire LCD backlight flashes red with the continuity test.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 08:50:38 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on April 02, 2018, 02:07:57 amSome of the photos look like the contrast isn't as good as you might like, but could just be a bad photo.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 09:06:52 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 02, 2018, 08:50:38 amThey show viewing angles at 3:45 in the promo video:The video also shows the AC+DC+min/max features nicely.(also has Japanese video-game style sound track)

author: chronos42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:00:01 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 01, 2018, 09:22:12 amI have bad experience with AA and AAA cells and have seen several badly damaged instruments because of leakage batteries. Some of them were destroyed beyond repair. Last case was my Fluke VoltAlert 1AC-E II, a voltage tester for electrical stuff. Bought before 2 years, seldom used, laying in a shelf. Original AA batteries, usable until 2022. One of them was leaking and messed up the complete tester. The other was in 100% full charged condition.Same happend with several other gear in the last time.We are living in the year 2018 now and have still to life with leaking batteries...On the other side I have never seen an Instrument that was destroyed from a 9V Batterie. So these cells are the most save solution and I cannot understand why some People prefer AA and AAA cells in measuremt instruments.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:07:22 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 01, 2018, 09:30:52 amLooks like a very nice meter.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:13:05 am
content: Quote from: chronos42 on April 02, 2018, 10:00:01 amAA and AAA have mugh higher power to volume ratio, and lower internal resistance.I wonder if anyone has successfully claimed against a battery manufacturer for leakage damage.Maybe instead of useless Batterizer sleeves, someone should make a "battery condom" for leak containment.Maybe there could be some sort of chemically treated paper that could be used to neutralise the effect of leaks

author: maukka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:28:54 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 31, 2018, 06:11:25 pmI'm liking the UT181A a lot too. With the3rd party logging softwareit's even better. Allows for downloading data out of the meter and automatically exporting it to csv as well. Something that the horrible Uni-T software doesn't do. That battery and charging sucks though.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 11:01:04 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 02, 2018, 10:13:05 amNone of which really matters for a multimeter.(Does anybody here change the batteries more than once a year in a meter with LCD display? Mine last for years...)Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 02, 2018, 10:13:05 amIsn't that what most decent 9V batteries are, 6x1.5V batteries in an electrolyte containment sleeve?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 11:07:15 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 02, 2018, 10:13:05 amI did, with local Energizer representative few years ago when it ruined my LED flashlight, back then LED flashlight was still a niche product.Ended I gave up as it seems like they deliberately put tons of red tapes that took me 3 or 4 months just to get the confirmation whether my claim was legit or not. I stopped pursuing the replacement procedures.Now, alkaline cells are permanently banned in my T&M equipments.

author: LeonR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 01:54:02 pm
content: I see a lot of comments on US and Europe-based brands, but very little for the Japanese. Kyoritsu, Hioki and Sanwa seem to have products high end specs. .. is there something about them that make them not stand in the same tier as other brands?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 02:02:37 pm
content: Quote from: LeonR on April 02, 2018, 01:54:02 pmThey are simply not as visible or available in Western markets. You have to make a special effort to seek them out and buy them.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 03:46:53 pm
content: or they are overpriced too

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 04:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on April 02, 2018, 03:46:53 pmThe title of this thread is "at any price".

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 04:36:03 pm
content: The Brymen 235 is a great little meter to have around the bench and I wouldn't want to be without it. When I need precision I turn on a bench meter. Don't think I'd ever give more then 300 euro for a hand held, at least for electronics. Anything above that competes with bench meters for me. Will be ordering another Brymen soon, probs the 257.Bottom line at any price I'd get a Keithley.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 08:59:09 pm
content: http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uken/digital-multimeters/advanced-multimeters/fluke-289.htm?PID=56061I use Fluke 289 at my work. I repair HT power supplies for scanning electron microscopes.I like theQuoteI do not know about any other DMM that has this feature.This is also useful:QuoteBut it is more common even at UNI-T DMMs. But not available at Hioki DMMs.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:05:45 pm
content: I did see the chauvin arnoux highest model the mtx 3293, seems a very good model with lots of features and the SX-DMM software too ... 100,000 count would be enough lollStill hate the top leads positioning loll

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:19:37 pm
content: Quote from: mzacharias on April 01, 2018, 04:39:12 pmIf you get a chance, please post what is the diode voltage output on that model when measured on another meter set to DC?5, 6, 7 volts?The 189 badged model would be the best no brainer high end meter I've used, akin to an 87V on ster0idsOnce you get used to this meter, you may want another, and you won't find one working cheapFluke got it right as a step up from an 87 and 8060A models, combining all the good stuff from those into one AIO meterthen went and dumped it for the 289The 289 boat I like toobut they should have kept the 189/187 going alongside the 87 series, and close the buyers gap for choice (Fluke or...Fluke)The 189 has everything you need on the front panel, no menu brainers to rememberor scribble on hand/arm/leg/chest/neck/private parts..free removable really cool tattoos that serve a purposeWho was smoking what at those Fluke 'what do we release next?' meetings?Edit: anyone that's used the AutoHold feature on the higher end Flukes with the best and fastest continuity buzzer going,is going to be a very fussy shopper if thinking about jumping ship...

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2018, 10:28:06 pm
content: I realize you already ordered the hioki(very nice meter) but my favorite is the keysight 1252B. I'll probably get another one soon. Maybe the hioki too if you recommend it. Then I can move all my cheaper meters away from testing and into assembly. I keep thinking about a bench meter but it just isn't worthwhile for the way I work.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 10:24:15 am
content: This one seems very interesting, because it has a thermal camera embedded, and can log simultaneously the temperature measured by the IR camera and the value measured by the probes. Also the price is OK, my Metrix mtx3283 was more expensive, but I will exchange it in a heart beat for a DMM with a thermal camera and wireless.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 10:32:21 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 05, 2018, 10:24:15 amThe CEM I looked at recently was rather underwhelming

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 10:44:49 am
content: On the point of wireless/remote display, all the mid range and above Keysight meters, you can plug a bluetooth transmitter into the back of the opto port and get remote display. Also talks to iOS/AndroidNeat product line really. Thermal camera I'd want separate anyway. Really the worst form factor for using one is a DMM.I've reverse engineered their comms protocol as well so I can use their stuff with my own software.

author: Candid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 10:49:00 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 05, 2018, 10:24:15 amIn combination as dmm and thermal camera it is nice. Only looking on the dmm part it is not a good choice I think. Very slow (unusable) bargraph, laggy continuity, low resolution, uses a special LiIon battery instead of standard cells that is what I remember from the video.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 12:05:13 pm
content: I use Aneng 8009 that I bought recently from Banggood. My reasons are that it is cheap and full of features while being small size.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 12:06:41 pm
content: Quote from: Candid on April 05, 2018, 10:49:00 amIndeed, while the thermal camera was a very appealing feature for that price, after watching the whole video, it does have some big inconveniences.The showstopper for me was the battery life when logging, which is way too short for my needs. Also, the laggy continuity test is way too slow.I don't want one any more.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 01:04:46 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 05, 2018, 10:24:15 amYou may be interested in the Fluke 279:

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 01:53:49 pm
content: It was interesting at the beginning, but it became strange starting from the minute 09:05 and strait hilarious at 12:13.The battery life is almost the same as in the CEM DT9889, but Fluke has less features, is more expensive ($1000 + $200 current probe), more locked into proprietary/expensive accessories, no amps measuring.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 03:34:47 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 05, 2018, 01:53:49 pmOh, dear.That makes those Agilent OLED multimeters look like a sensible purchase.It's ridiculous that a device like that can't be charged through an external connector, even if it's via the input jacks like some other meters.The short battery life isn't just inconvenient, it also makes it next-to-useless on a bench. They could probably sell a whole lot more of those if they could be powered by a charger connected to the input jacks and left running all day as a remote display camera (with image on your smartphone so you can be doing something else across the room).

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 04:16:06 pm
content: Ugh that's awful. TI jumped that shark already with the nSpire calculators. Yes I want to wait 30 seconds for my calculator to boot and half the time I pick it up, the battery is dead and it takes overnight to charge. This energy management model doesn't work for any handheld or portable device that is essential, other than phones and that's only because we're addicts.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 04:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 05, 2018, 04:16:06 pmI bet almost everybody who buys one will regret it. Much better to get a separate camera.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 06:15:27 pm
content: Speaking of battery life: I see that Hioki makes asolar powered DMM. I guess this would be a good choice for a desert island.CAT IV rated, for measuring industrial power lines.And... built-in light meter.(via the solar panel?)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 06:30:24 pm
content: That doesn't surprise me actually. Hioki made some cool toys in that space over the years. Always wanted one of these:

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 07:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 05, 2018, 06:30:24 pmI wonder if Dave has one. He collects calculators. If he hasn't got one then I reckon he will, really badly.Calling Dave Jones, white courtesy phone...(knowing Dave's luck, somebody will post him one for free. No, I'm not jealous. snif)

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 07:07:23 pm
content: You've got to be some kind of wizard to be simultaneously measuring and calculating!

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 07:35:15 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-best-multimeter-ever!/Scope out who posted that

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2018, 07:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: Elasia on April 05, 2018, 07:35:15 pmHe shall be punished for sowing doubt to our beloved ones!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2018, 07:32:23 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 05, 2018, 07:50:51 pmOK, he knows they exist.I'm sure he would have posted photos or done a Blog if he actually had one though.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2018, 08:07:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 05, 2018, 07:05:49 pmYep, I found one on ebay UK for a couple of quid and sent it to him-it's on a mailbag video maybe 2-3 years ago

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2018, 11:38:38 pm
content: Wasn't there a version with a paper roll printer too?And it gave me an idea how a analogue equivalent might look: spherical slide rule integrated into the scale of the meter movement. Unfortunately, none encountered.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 04:46:34 pm
content: Did the fancy Hioki turn up yet?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2018, 07:44:25 pm
content: Not yet.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 09:05:54 am
content: Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?Handhelds WILL get dropped sooner or later and rained on, either by nature in the field, a clumsy coffee/tea/shiraz/vodka disasteror some stinking male cat marking its meter territory when you're at the van getting parts and finishing off that donutEither surround 'best handheld dmms' with a foam skin and perspex front guard,or a Fluke 28-11 may be the hot favorite in 'Meter Survivor' or "Last Meter Standing' reality shows

author: hgjdwx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 09:52:27 am
content: First explain that my English is not good and I use Google Translate.I have a DT4282 that has been in use for more than two years.The DT4282 has many advantages. Some of its features are not comparable to other hand-held multimeters.Like its DCV range and resistance range speed, resistance range accuracy, and stability, temperature drift and so on.There is 1uV resolution and stability of the DCV I appreciate and often use.There is also a very good frequency response of its ACV.And its ultra-fast PEAK function.The above mentioned are far superior to other hand-held multimeters of the same grade.But I also see many disadvantages it is:It does not have an analog bar, the continuity test response time is 10mS, the display shows dark,Only voltage AC+DC function, no current AC+DC function, AC voltage, current speed is not fast,Capacitance is very slow, and AC voltage and current mantissa are forced to zero within the word is below "999".Large reading range when the signal above 100 KHz for ACV measurements, and the upper limit for frequency measurement is 500 KHz, andThe frequency of many test signals cannot be displayed, and sometimes the manual switching range does not respond.PEAK function does not have mV range, AC+DC and AC/DC dual display have no mv range.The FILTER function has only 600V and 1000V range and no 6V and 60V range.The recalled stored data and current measurement data cannot be displayed in the same screen.So I made the following suggestions to the manufacturer:Functional improvements:1: Continuity test response time increased to 1ms, and Increase resolution to 0.01OHM2: Use high-brightness, high-contrast display (just now display is dark)3: Diode range increases resolution to 0.0001V4: Open circuit of resistance range is changed to "OL" without flashing5: Increase the measurement speed of the capacitor6: Cancel auto-zero function in “999” character of AC range7: Increase the AC speed and AC/DC dual display measurement speed, and instead when performing AC/DC dual display automatic speed measurement, the ranges of AC and DC are not related and the ranges are independent.8: Improve the reading stability of the signal above 100KHZ by ACV (currently the reading is too large)9: Increase the upper limit of the frequency measurement range and improve some frequencies can not be displayed10: Improvement Sometimes transform Range Does Not Respond11: Improvement: The “?”, “?” and “RANGE” keys on the right side of the panel together constitute the quick function key for range switching, similar to the desktop multimeterIncreased functionality:1: PEAK function increases mv range2: increase the recalled stored data and the current measurement data with the screen display3: FILTER function increases 6V, 60V range4: Increase the low impedance mode function5: Add analog bar display6: Increase range indication7: increase the maximum, minimum, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display8: increase the positive peak, negative peak, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display9: AC+DC and AC/DC dual display increase the mv range10: Add current AC+DC function.11: Add automatic power off time setting function.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 10:15:38 am
content: Interesting. I find that the capacitor autoranging in my DT4282 is much, much faster than my Keysight.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 10:21:25 am
content: So what meter do you suggest for <100$?It has to include measuring capacitors accurately and true rms...etc.Right now my main is Aneng 8009 and I got another 8002 as a spare. I plan to get the 121gw when it is ready to sell, I guess that could be my high-end meter. Significantly better than 8009.And I have a question: Why Fluke 87 is always the most used one? always considered the standard... can someone explain this?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 10:36:17 am
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 10:21:25 amNone, basically. Between ANENGS and $100 there's no real advantage.Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 10:21:25 amNo DMM is going to measure capacitors accurately. You need an LCR meter for that.Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 10:21:25 amBecause it just works. And keeps on working.

author: hgjdwx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 10:47:30 am
content: Quote from: Synthtech on April 11, 2018, 10:15:38 amIt is obviously slow than F187 and U1272A

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 11:11:16 am
content: For autoranging and settling in the capacitance mode the Hioki leaves my U1282A for dead. The keysight is much slower.I wish the Hioki had a longer auto-shutdown time though. I would like to see a “lab mode” option on high end hand held meters where the meter would just stay on until it is manually turned off by the user.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 12:35:04 pm
content: QuoteReally?Dave made 50$ and 100$ shootouts so I thought it would be some real differences. Ok, so what are the real advantages beyond that?QuoteI wish to understand this. Why would it be like this? not even the high quality meters? So why they put such a feature if it is not accurate (not reliable)?QuoteIsn't this what nearly all meters are?I asked because I really see using Fluke 87 being used like this, so it is not a coincidence. There must be a true reason for it and I wish to know it.

author: hgjdwx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 12:49:10 pm
content: The DT4282 can accurately measure the DC component of AC and DC mixed signals (such as the DC voltage of the MOS's D pole in the switching power supply), which is very accurate! Most true-rms multimeters do not do this well. It also accurately measures the tiny DC components in the AC signal.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 01:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 12:35:04 pmThat was long ago, before those ANENGs appeared.Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 12:35:04 pmHomework: Find out what an LCR meter does.Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 12:35:04 pmSure, with light use on a nice clean table and never exposed to any dangerous voltages.There's a whole thread on "robustness" here, with a lot of useful information:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/People buy F87s because they do enough, they do nothing badly and they last a long time.F87s are a bit overpriced but if you use your meter a lot or it's used for paid work then maybe that doesn't matter. They should last 20 years or more so you can do the math on how much they cost per year, decide if it's worth it.Me? I'll probably never own one*. They're expensive and I simply don't need an industrial meter.(*) Not unless somebody else pays for it.

author: Alex P
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 07:57:03 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 12:35:04 pmMeasuring capacitance is a bit of a black art. Capacitance can depend on frequency, temperature, even the applied voltage. Then there's ESR / delta etc. Strangely, people seem to be more at ease with capacitors than with inductors.It's there as a feature because people want it, not because they know what the measurement is worth.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: Alex P on April 11, 2018, 07:57:03 pmThey can confirm the number printed on the side of the capacitor. If the reading is much less than that then you know the capacitor should be binned.OTOH that number doesn't tell you much about how the capacitor will perform in a real circuit, an LCR meter can tell you a lot more about that.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:52:47 pm
content: But lcr meter requires getting the cap desoldered from the board.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:53:23 pm
content: You can't measure the cap value in circuit. You're then measuring the circuit's capacitance.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 08:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 11, 2018, 08:53:23 pmyes, that is required too.Anyway, I wanted to know how +400$ DMM cannot measure capacitance accurately while a lot less LCR meter can do it perfectly. They both have MCU and ADC to do the final job... so why?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 09:18:28 pm
content: with an real lcr meter you can choose the test biais voltages in some case ac or dc from 0.5v up to 2v or even more, the test frequencies 50hz and up to 100khz and more too, test esr, q, etc etc... lot more than an dmm or bench meter can do, and yes you can test some parts in parallel or serial circuit mode too

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 09:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 08:59:55 pmProbaly just marketing/lack of demand.Also: It needs a completely different user interface.LCR meters look like this:You can get combined DMM/LCR meters but most people who know about LCR meters would want a proper one.eg.http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/lcr-messgeraet-mit-dmm/produkt/peaktech-2180.html

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 09:41:34 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 10:21:25 amThe same story like Kalashnikov rifle.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 09:43:25 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 11, 2018, 09:41:34 pmGood analogy.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 10:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on April 11, 2018, 09:41:34 pmHhhh not really. the AK47 has real advantages over the others, known and measurable advantages.QuoteThis one is really popular and it is the one if I wanted to buy an LCR meter. It is cheap (~30$) and many people say it is nice.What do you think?https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-3_5inch-Colorful-Display-Multi-functional-TFT-Backlight-Transistor-Tester-p-1083042.html?rmmds=search

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2018, 11:16:43 pm
content: I made a new thread for LCR meters, thought it was interesting enough to split off this and keep this one to all purpose dmms

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 07:29:46 am
content: A DMM is adequate for the three most common reasons most people need to measure capacitance :To identify unmarked capsTo check that electrolytics haven't dried outTo find which end of a cable a break is nearest ( some DMMs don't go low enough to do this - ideally needs 1pf resolution)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 08:46:34 am
content: Only time I use capacitance on my DMM is when I've run out of MLCC 100nF caps and I want to make sure the ones I nicked off an old HP scope motherboard I have in the cupboard are actually 100nF ones. And that's only because I'm too impatient to wait for RS to arrive next day.Everything else I built a test rig with a colpitts oscillator and a 1% mica cap and plug it into a counter. That's as good as a high end LCR meter and does inductance and capacitance down to 0.1pF and 0.1uHedit: design:http://www.qsl.net/wm5z/cq199301b.pdfLooks like shit but it works:

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 09:07:09 am
content: Measuring capacitance with a multimeter is like measuring DC with an oscilloscope.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 09:09:32 am
content: To be fair I do that all the time. It's basically an analogue multimeter that draws a line instead of having a needle. 5/10% is close enough most of the time.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 09:35:53 am
content: Quote from: Synthtech on April 12, 2018, 09:07:09 amI do it.Scope is suitable for this but if I want just a number and not a signal, I would use DMM.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 09:50:50 am
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 12, 2018, 09:35:53 amAgreed. I use my multimeters generally for checking capacitance values of new parts and reach for the LCR meter when I want to check ESR or other parameters or for tight tolerance selection.

author: LoFi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2018, 06:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 10:26:09 pmFluke pioneered the development of DMMs back in the 1970s and built their reputation on good performance, reliability, accuracy, robustness. No one else has quite that kind of long-running track record, and that counts for a lot with people who bet their lives and livelihoods on how well a multimeter performs.Re 'real advantages'; many cheap meters are pretty accurate these days. What might a Fluke 87V do that these cheaper meters don't?:- extremely fast continuity check. It's strange that most other meters don't seem to get this right.- quick performance with other measurements as well (this often doesn't show up in spec sheets, but matters in day-to-day use)- autohold - not just the usual manual 'data' hold. Autohold is *very* useful. I think Hioki may offer this, but don't know if anyone else does.- bar graph - very handy when watching changing signals. Some other meters provide this, some don't... but Ireallylike having it.- very useful min/max/average and peak min/max measurements. Some meters omit this, or leave out average or peak (transient)- diode check will light up all LEDs and report the voltage drop. Many good meters won't do this.- within any given measurement, an 87v will typically provide a wider range of measurement than most cheap meters- lifetime warranty- Proven track record of reliability, accuracy, robustnessNow the above advantages won't matter to everyone, and if they don't matter too much for what you need then a Fluke may not be worth considering. But the features above are all quite useful.

author: hgjdwx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2018, 04:48:55 am
content: Digital multimeter has many application skills that you find.For example, use the PEAK function to discover fleeting abnormalities.Use Z-LOW to discharge the electrolytic capacitor.Inline resistance measurement using a low open circuit voltage resistance rangeUse AC and DC dual display multimeters (100KHZ, true RMS) to quick evaluation power quality.Utilize the digital multimeter DCV 1uV resolution Cooperate with the pointer multimeter, fast look for the short circuit point in the circuit.There is also the diode range of the digital multimeter. It is better to have a high open circuit voltage and high display voltage.And it is better to show the open circuit voltage than to show the over-range "OL" on the open circuit.Protek 223 is like this, so that it has greater flexibility to adapt to a wider range of circuit measurements.Digital multimeter can also be combined with pointer multimeter to in-line test optocouplerDigital multimeter DCV stable 1uV resolution is very useful.I often use it and the pointer multimeter to find the short circuit point in the circuit, more accurate than milliohmmeter.At this point the DT4282 does a better job. It not only has a DCV resolution of 1uV, the key is very stable.Although other tables have a 1uV resolution, the drift is relatively large.Attached:To find the short circuit point in the circuit, I have a simple method.With the pointer multimeter R*1 range and FLUKE187 DC 50mV range (resolution up to 1uV),Method 1:The red meter of the pointer multimeter is grounded, and the black test pen is connected to a short circuit (any point of the copper foil that is short-circuited is randomly connected).The use of F187 50mV to measure the voltage on two direct solder joints on the copper foil. The voltage to the short-circuit point is larger (tens to hundreds of microvolts).The voltage to the non-short circuit point is small (zero to a few microvolts). Look in the direction of the large voltage. You can quickly find the short-circuit point and you don't have to remove an extra part.Method 2:First, use the left hand to hold the two pens of the digital watch and contact the two adjacent solder joints on the short-circuit power line respectively.The right hand holds the pointer table two pens, the red watch pen is grounded, and the black pen touches the two solder joints in sequence.For two measurements, the digital meter reading must be zero at a time. There is a large reading at a time and the direction of the zero voltage is the direction of the short circuit.Some explanations:You don't have to use FLUKE 187. The other four and a half meters can be used.Of course, no pointer multimeter can also be replaced with a 100mA or 1A power supply.In fact, the operation is very simple, you only need to follow the actual sketch of my drawing, and you will immediately understand!Interested friends can set a short-circuit point artificially, test it, is not it very convenient?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2018, 05:34:07 pm
content: I thought that was a stargate dialler for a minute.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2018, 07:27:50 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 13, 2018, 05:34:07 pmProbably the illegitimate spawn of such and a room thermostate, conceived during full moon in a severely toxic landfill.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 04:15:58 am
content: Somebody just posted a video in the 121GW thread that shows autoranging speed of the Hioki DT4282 vs. other meters.Itappears* to show that the Hioki is the fastest of the bunch, faster than a Fluke 87V.(andmuchfaster than a 121GW)(*) Testing methodology is suspect - can you connect meters in parallel to measure resistance?

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 08:28:15 am
content: Multimeters in parallel measuring resistance makes no sense to me.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 08:33:32 am
content: Most of the DMMs use a current source of some description and then measure the voltage across the resistor.Apply superposition theorem/KCL and the answer is obvious

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 08:56:13 am
content: Just to back up how bad this can get, here are two meters measuring the same resistor. The GDM-8341 is spot on and does not change if the Keysight one is connected or not. Resistor is a 1k 1/4W 5% carbon film jobby

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 08:57:42 am
content: Highly suspect. It should work when the probes are shorted, but the meters will influence each other when the probes are open. Just look at the Fluke. When the other meters show overflow the Fluke shows numbers. This means that the starting state of the meters are different and that the time until the meters show "0" might be different than what it would be without meters connected together.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2018, 09:03:00 am
content: Quote from: glarsson on April 18, 2018, 08:57:42 amOn the plus side: The Flukeisshowing megaohms, which I assume is the highest range. It's not starting out in the middle.Quote from: bd139 on April 18, 2018, 08:56:13 amIt obviously won't work for a 1k resistor. The best we can hope for is that all the meters will drop down to their bottom range when the leads are shorted.Itlookslike that's what's happening but by luck, not design.

author: niner_007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2018, 07:58:21 am
content: It doesn't exists, they kinda all have issues, limitations or are disappointing one way or anotherThere's little innovation as well. I have a few 87Vs and a 289. My definition of best:- dual (at least) or quad inputs, measuring voltage, current etc simultaneously and independently (displaying them too)- small profile, the 289 is too big, the 87V is too big! there is a lot of space in the 87V that can be used better- logging built in, multimeters without some form of logging are useless; with both external and internal logging, with a lot of internal memory- simple and intuitive interface, no more dials, and much better interface than the 289- rechargeable cells with built in charger, 18650 cells please!- external connectivity, USB mass storage (SD card is less desirable), but no optical please! this is not the 80s- a form of wireless connectivity (mandatory): Wi-Fi, ZigBee or LoRa; if Wi-Fi, it needs to be secure, things like the ESP8266 are not acceptable for this; no Bluetooth please- a form of wired connectivity, Ethernet (isolated) would be the best, USB, less so- easy user calibration- fast updates, 10ksps at least- 200,000 counts at least- no ASICs or multimeter ICs, should only use off the shelf discrete parts!- should use a large display, it really doesn't need a lot of buttons with a menu system; it should use a knob, kind of like dial, but smaller, with an optical encoder, for navigating the menu system

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2018, 08:39:06 am
content: Quote from: niner_007 on May 19, 2018, 07:58:21 amSounds awful.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2018, 10:12:24 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 19, 2018, 08:39:06 amHe forgot to include the mega dollar wireless to wireless calibrator to ensure the meter is behaving at all timesand internet connectivity to download and install 24/7 firmware updates (morning, brunch, lunch, dinner, dessert, cigarette, and night time builds) for the meter and calibratortill the money runs out and it's Ebay flogging time.. before a new model gets released and no one wants the last buggy model with OLED crappery

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2018, 10:47:38 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on April 18, 2018, 08:56:13 amPerhaps you need to think first on HOW a DMM measures resistance and after that about why putting two DMMs in parallel isn't going to work!

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:06:24 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 19, 2018, 10:47:38 amPerhaps you need to check your visionQuote from: bd139 on April 18, 2018, 08:33:32 am

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 07:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: 4thDoctorWhoFan on April 01, 2018, 12:59:21 amI still have probably a half dozen of those meters. Still one of my favorite meters for everyday use. They run forever on a carbon zinc 9V. I think if I put a 9V ultimate Lithium in it it would probably last the rest of my life!SamW3OHM

author: niner_007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 10:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on April 11, 2018, 08:59:55 pmthe analog frontend of a traditional multimeter is very different from that of a LCR meter, that's where most of the BOM and design is; the ADC and MCU is insignificant relative to that

author: niner_007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 03:02:53 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 31, 2018, 10:18:40 amCurrently high on my list is the Keysight 1272 or generally the 1200 series, specs are okay, but the internal construction is important to me, and this one has a beautiful discrete construction; nothing is worse than a product that has good specs and works properly but is ugly on the inside, speaking for myself here, I understand not everyone feels the sameI hate when handheld meters use an ASIC or one of those multimeter ICs, that's honestly quite enough for me to turn it down, if it can be avoided. Anyone feels the same?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 05:32:23 am
content: Quote from: niner_007 on June 03, 2018, 03:02:53 amWhat's wrong with a properly designed ASIC? They're cost effective, they're reliable and they're energy efficient. They should bring benefits to basically all important areas.

author: niner_007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 06:32:49 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 03, 2018, 05:32:23 amthey are basically closed IP, that you cannot get into or source, if it fails, it's gone, it's less likely to get a replacement and on old test tools, you can completely forget about it; from a learning perspective, hard to understand as well; I probably wouldn't be as against it if their design and source code was open, but that's never happening

author: bricksnmortar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 02:00:04 am
content: I know this thread has been dormant for a while but in the interests of answering the OP it seems as if "best" (subjective I know given differences in what people want like logging) seems to be narrowing down to a meter from each of the tier 1 manufacturers (for want of a better description). I like coming up with answers to these types of questions because it gives manufacturers a pat on the back for a job well done. These models seem to beBrymen 869sFluke 187 (seems to have more 'votes' than the 289 series)Hioki DT4282Gossen Metrahit 30M (or its newer replacement, looks like the Metrahit Ultra)Keysight (maybe something like the u1253b)Is that a fair list? And if so who are you leaning to for the crown (maybe putting aside size or battery leakage issues)? Since this is eevblog we are discussing an electronics focus, probably as a mix of bench and field but standing on its own (so not thought of as in conjunction with the capabilities of your bench DMM or other devices you personally own).

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 02:46:28 am
content: About 100 Fluke 70 series, a couple of 87-Vs, a 189, an 89, various other misc. Flukes, and a couple 189-IIs. (LOL, sorry)Seriously:I know it'd be a Gossen, but really, they are so out of consideration I don't even know which one, exactly.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 06:03:08 am
content: Quote from: bricksnmortar on December 22, 2022, 02:00:04 amNot really, see this list:https://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMHigh-end%20UK.html

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 09:17:55 am
content: I have the gossen 28 and 29, they are my top end meters, but have a slow refresh speed maybe 2-2.5 sec, i wish they could be faster, Their latest series are not appealing for meComplaint : They are very expensive to be calibrated, they cost more than my 34401a lolll, and yes no parts, no schematics ... nada EOLAnd these 2 pups with their rs232 and usb interface costed me lots of cash, and i mean a lot ... If i would do it again ............ NOHypotically second Would be a Metrix 3292-3293 100,000 count, wich is very costly in Canada, but i hate so much the probes locationThird My most favorites are the Fluke 189, totally hated the 289 ( slow and very bulky)Fourth : All other 50,000, 60,000 counts dmm, Brymen, Amprobe, Greenlee etc ..... Keysight, Hioki etc .... Mostly availability is the key factor ....To sum it upMy guideline now is : Fuses accessibility and calibration costs vs reliability / reputation / stability etc ... you get some surprisesAnd sorry the EEvblog meters for me are a no go, sure they have their quirks, and do receive upgrades but .... nahAnd the list :https://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMHigh-end%20UK.htmlIs it fair : NO

author: KrzysztofB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 10:43:49 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on December 22, 2022, 09:17:55 am100% agree...289 is bleh....189 love it... and easy to implement bluetooth module

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 11:39:32 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on December 22, 2022, 09:17:55 amWhat do you mean by "NO", the list shows the meters, list their functions, but do not rate them.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 12:08:32 pm
content: They put somme Appa clones or vice versa rebranded loll "cough" meters lollThe 121gw is an unfinished meter, sorry with all it's goodness it's kinda good but, there was hardware errors (some fixed) and fw quircks, better hope with the 786,Sure it's getting better as i said, but not for me i dont want to be a guinea pigBut i would go with the 869 or the 789 models, but they wiggle a bit on the bench, the 859s is better lollAnd i hate some meter who doesn't start in voltage right after the OFF position, it could be desastrous if your probes where connected to something like a battery or a power source, yeah some tech does that loll me too (not the auto power off)The 87V series are good BUT, i hate the fact they start in AC mode instead of DC, had a few at my job and tossed them away, i love older series without this annoying function, BUT it is safer if you do some mistakes loll85 and 87 series III where the best, but as i said intense usage has it's quirks with them too, the dial contacts have to be cleaned and lubbed.I had some meter beeping for nothing loll, and the power off sometimes was not totally off lolll some ghosts in them lollThats why an handheld DMM is easily replaced by a bench model, i have 3x venerable 34401a, and slowly im replacing them / sell them to end with an 34410a with a brand new VFD. That's another storyWith intense usages your taste will differ, i take tons of voltages measurements, and some of theses meter get annoying to use (auto range speed, and the time they take to display the value) , really depend of the usage, i had to purchase old era tds 2000 "B"series of scope with their autorange modes, a real time saviour in my case, and hard to beat.The Gossens are a special niche, you have the auto mode who is marvelous, auto AC-DC-Ohms ... Wow never had any problems with that function, display speed kill the fun lollI think Fluke tried to copy that on some meters, i was not impressed, but worked okay, now some cheap brands whant to copy this lollThe esoteric M30S is one of a kind ....Once again, what is best / good at this and that really depend of your "real needs" not having a Mercedes toy to play with lollI too was influenced a bit when i've bought the "old" gossens, in the end i have paid more than a 7.5 digit meter loll I total 3 Gossens 2x 28 and 1x 29, not to rant, i do regret the purchase as i said, because of the time spent, cash spent, calibrations costs, and mostly import duties fees who spoil the funAnd threads like this will never end, because each person has different needs and tastes

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 02:03:19 pm
content: If I had to choose between my Fluke 187 and my Brymen BM857 I think I'd keep the Brymen.The Brymen has a much more contrasty display and a better beeper. The Fluke feels a but clunky and always seems to have too many positions on the range switch.The Fluke is better for AC (dual display) but I don't use that very often. It also has more options for setting things like auto-power-off.Apart from that they'reverysimilar for speed, accuracy, etc.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 09:58:03 pm
content: Because I once posted in this thread and thereby I became aware of this rekindled discussion:Maybe I've voiced this already, but I can only emphasize it again: I would not be able nor willing to answer this question in this way. And I take many measurements in settings from electronic and electrical appliances, to industrial power and control, RF gear, to airframes and special vehicles. Microvolts to kiloamps - literally. During commissioning, on fact-finding and troubleshooting missions and so on. (I am leaving my lab work on the side, as all those meters are just auxiliaries there, as the bench meters do their thing better. Nevertheless, even there you want to keep another signal in view or monitor a supply..)From the fact that I was a pre-order customer on the Fluke 8060A as well as the Fluke 87 it can be deduced that I am not stingy when it comes to selecting a handheld DMM. Then I was shown the Siemens with the Timestamping of the Min/Max values (back in late 80s) - and jumped for it. And so on. I looked down on the Amprobe products until the 37xR-A got by chance into my hands and I saw that it does inductance AND duty cycle...ok, thats new - now I'm pondering whether to follow a colleague and add the 38. (but I don't consider that a priority.)What I can say is that there are some combinations well proven to fulfill my widely varying needs. For example:GMC M2036 (flap-lid, 4.5digit RMS, limits, peak det..) PLUS GMC Metramax12 (avg reading, Low-Z voltage, capacitance)orFluke 87 (or nowadays a 89) PLUS Metravo 4HorSiemens B1010 + B1012 + Multizet A1000?or Tektronix THM565 PLUS Unigor A6e?Is it communications? Then the fluke 8060 still rules (just for my taste), maybe I'll take the Unigor A43 along..In other circumstances, I grabbed the still supreme Mavo30 plus a 'Metravo Electronik' (contrary to what the name suggests, a rather simple 200kOhm/V class 2.5 meter with a usable range spread).I'm not giving in unreservedly to the CAT fetish, as handheld multimeters have been used on dangerous voltages and currents longer than even shrouded plugs did exist. I myself have to judge whether the use of a device is safe and what the remaining risk is. This does not express a disdain for safe practices, but reflects merely what I've seen, done, and got not harmed by it. As others did. When I was a teenager, I did an internship with our local traffic signals department. It was considered a perfectly safe practice to measure in combined installations for road/streetcar signalling where you could encounter 700V DC with a Multizet S and standard test leads - you had to watch your grips and sequences. They are still alive afaik. But progress does help, of course. Just keep in mind that somewhere IS a transient that will do to your CATIII meter (and to you) with coordinated accessories the same damage that to such an 1960s instrument.Will I have to cope with signals where I want a digital and an analogue meter to be Hi-Z and as precise as possible? Or do I select one deliberately for not being such. Is there bad light, is it clean or filthy? And which accessories might I need (not only probes, but current clamps, temperature adaptor OR thermocouple?? RF probe? In some cases , the orientation of the jacks gave the preference because 19.75mm allows adaptors.Those instruments are our very basic sense extensions in the electrical domain. The qctopus, the eagle and the honey bee have highly developed visual systems - tailored to what and where they need to perceive. I take that as a hint to tailor my multimeter usage in a similar way.