Does Stanford Research have Flux Capacitor? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:43:18 pm
content: So I was reading my latest copy of Electronic Design magazine as normal people do on a Sunday. I come across an ad for a signal analyzer from a long time advertiser Stanford Research Systems.I was floored by what I say. Could not believe my eyes. I thought I was looking at an eBay listing or a magazine from 1998. Did they travel in time? Did they stop time?Highlights of the device:Monochrome display - dated but not totally unheard of.Features listed include: GPIB and RS-232 interfaces. What? Those are features or relics?32MB Memory! Lookout everyone. It's capable of storing a few MP3 compressed songs.A comparison to 'Agilent' (who changed their name 2.5 years ago to Keysight) 35670A which I believe is a design that is around 15 years old.The big clincher........drum roll.......A 3.5" floppy drive on a NEW piece of 2016 test equipment! Holy Shit!I don't own any of their gear, but with this ad I would not likely consider it after seeing this. The test part of the circuit may be great, but I don't want to deal with anyone that still uses a fax machine so much that they put it in the contact info. Could this be a mistake?

author: MatthewEveritt
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:05:35 pm
content: In my experience SRS are well worth the minor hassle of dealing with floppy disks etc. Their attitude is that it works, and they'd rather put effort into getting the best performance and stability possible. I've heard that they do SERIOUS testing, and that moving to usb or something isn't worth having to redo all of it. I doubt you'd ever actually use the disk in another machine anyway, typically it's just for saving / restoring settings.As for using fax, who cares, they also use email and phone.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:26:59 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 21, 2016, 08:43:18 pmHigh level test instruments tend to have high development costs which often slow down the updating the product with the latest features such as USB, while new colour displays may require a product redesign. GPIB and RS232 are still heavily used in industry. The lack of fancy features don't degrade the ability for the instrument to do it job of producing high quality results. Compare this instrument to Keysight high end products and you will find they are still producing precision products based on a 20 year old designs which also lack USB and graphical features.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:37:24 pm
content: I don't doubt that the core circuits are very well designed. I guess my pause is that modern convenience features are not just vanity - they generally speed things up and prevent compatibility issues with other systems. It is time consuming, expensive, and frustrating to keep legacy interfaces going. I did a lot of work for NASA and United Space Alliance and was always baffled at the resources spent keeping old equipment and processes alive. They have a good reason for it, but most businesses cannot tolerate the challenges of dealing with old stand-alone equipment and processes.Most of the current high-end test equipment out there simply gets the data faster even if it is the same data as you would get from a 20 year old model. In general it's all about building a system and speed (at least in my world) where everything is easily tied together and data is easily collected and analyzed.As for the FAX machine - I know I can send an email, it's just another reminder/feeling that they are operating with yesterdays ideas. To me, a modern interface and forward looking company is important. I believe that the raw function is very important, but not enough to stop there.

author: Owen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 09:57:54 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 21, 2016, 08:43:18 pmThey've printed an old photo. The slightly newer ones do have a usb floppy emulator installed:http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR785.htm.In my humble opinion this looks a bit shabby.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:40:25 am
content: The rough equivalent is theHewlett Packard AgilentKeysight 35670A Dynamic Signal Analyzer, which only just recently was obsoleted after a ~20 year run:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-35670A-Signal-Analyzer-4-Channel-Dyn-Agilent-35670A-/191926268089?hash=item2cafb270b9:g:qRgAAOSwIgNXjfUq

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:52:03 am
content: Nice feature is the DC to 100kHz functionality, you don't see that on new spectrum analyzers (which start at 9kHz or so), which makes it almost exclusively usefull for audio applications.If the price was around $1k to $2k I would be very interested, at this price they may put it somewhere dark.

author: k_sze
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 11:06:27 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 21, 2016, 09:37:24 pmMaybe SRS's target customersareNASA/United Space Alliance!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 11:41:14 am
content: I recently had to work with a floppy scope. Taking pictures on the scope and immediatly moving it to a computer. You know what? It was faster than a USB flash drive. That every time you plug it in, you lose like half a minute checking file system and such. Floppy just worked, maybe copy speed was a bit slower. Only... dont click the drive when the floppy is not there.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:54:46 pm
content: yeah floppy data lifetime is also higher then usb stick, but we are nowadays used to the speed and comfort do our measurements and just keep clicking on the printscreen button to store all the pictures.Then transfer these pictures with 80MB/s to the ssd in the computer.These pictures vary between 40kB and 80kB a piece.With a 1,4MB floppy you can only store 20 to 30 pictures, not really much is it and then it will take two minutes to transfer those 20 pictures back to the computer.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 03:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 22, 2016, 01:54:46 pm... which gives you time to run for coffee. I don't see the downside. O0

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 03:25:59 pm
content: I just noticed the display is a CRT as well.Like I said earlier - I am sure the test component of this instrument is lovely and high performance, etc. It is however, surrounded by technology that was obsolete 15 years ago. I cannot imagine that if I was buying new test equipment that I would get over the fact that nearly everything in this box is obsolete or very close to it.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 05:38:11 pm
content: Consider the target market. These things are used for mechanical analysis, not so much electrical. Testing labs, automotive, aerospace, downhole drilling, all very mature fields, all with ample supplies of rusty old computers running GPIB ISA cards in a Pentium with Windows 95, say.I'm probably making up a straw man here, but in any case, there are plenty of labs so equipped. Surely not all of them. Probably, a lot are using new hardware and protocols. But none of them are strangers to backwards compatibility. So an instrument equipped this way isn't much of a burden.Likely, even many of the newest labs continue to use bits and pieces of old. Example, networking a bench/rack of instruments with GPIB, using a USB dongle to connect them with a modern computer and network. There may be reasons to do this instead of USB (if nothing else, it's hubless, and the devices are always uniquely identified by assigned address), or Ethernet (needs a router; may add more devices to the existing network, possible security issues?).Tim

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 06:45:34 pm
content: Well if it works, why change it?But seriously folks... Where are they procuring the components to make this machine? Does any company still make floppies? CRT's? Or do you think they made over-stock or bought crates worth of components back in 1995 and still trying to get rid of it today?I would think this SRS stuff is more reliable, as it seems to have stood the test of time and the design has been stable for a long time. I would buy it if I could afford it. There is a DS345 Function Generator on eBay listing for $300-400... a new one is $1595. Good deal!http://www.thinksrs.com/products/DS345.htm

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 07:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 22, 2016, 05:38:11 pmEh?

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 08:15:28 pm
content: SRS does make great quality gear. Their lock in amplifiers (such as SR530) are probably the best in the business. That being said, if you ever need to buy parts from them, they will not sell them to you unless you're the original owner or bought it from them.The last time I worked on something of theirs (an SR760 FFT spectrum analyzer)I localized the fault to a simple GAL16V8. Called them up asked if I could buy one. They asked who I was and where I bought it (it was a repair job for a customer who was not the original owner.) They refused to sell me the chip.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 09:54:30 pm
content: SRS has some high quality gear for sure. We use a gas sensor in our lab that works great. I also saw the ad and had a little laugh at what it looks like. It doesn't seem like the piece of equipment you would put in as a full page picture ad.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 11:19:33 pm
content: That actually is pretty funny, but my guess is that it's targeted at environments that may tend to not update their tech much, like as far as interfaces, media etc. I worked in a hospital and it's incredible how lot of stuff still uses floppies. Xray machines etc. It costs too much to update so they don't. Lot of NT4 servers too. Typically with software that is really important and has no upgrade path to a newer OS because the company has been out of business for 15 years. Gotta like that.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 11:39:40 pm
content: There are still plenty of organizations that operate with decades old technology. I recently escaped my CNC machining business and that industry has a lot of OLD tech. Aerospace making parts and systems that were designed in the 70's has to maintain old methods.My guess is that those businesses are not likely to read Electronics Design magazine and have any reaction to an ad in it. The magazine is about next generation technology, developments, and thinking. The whole thing seems quite odd even if I can understand that someone is still making stuff the same way it was made in the late 80's.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2016, 09:07:42 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 22, 2016, 07:12:38 pmProbably means DHCP Server.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2016, 10:28:46 am
content: One thing that is sure is that it doesn't give any confidence. If they've been sitting on their 20+ year old tech without trying to keep up with the times what have they been doing, are they still going to be there and have spares and knowledgeable engineers in 5-10 years when I need repairs?Even the photo and ad wording makes it look like the last marketing person they hired was gone in the late 80's.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2016, 01:28:54 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on August 24, 2016, 10:28:46 amThey have a large product range which probably keep the design and development team busy. For instance they make the SRS Rubidium Frequency Standard which are popular in the telecoms industry and they have recently updated the range of RF Vector Signal Generators. There is also the audio range of products such as the SR1 Audio Analyser, which has some extensive features on a instrument with plenty of extension and device ports, .http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR1.htmIn the end I suspect SRS will update the spectrum analyser once they have developed and tested the instrument and the extensive firmware these instruments use.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2016, 01:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: 4CX35000 on August 24, 2016, 09:07:42 amDon't need one of those, either.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2016, 08:02:05 pm
content: Well, a switch would be fine too, but in any case, you need lots of network connections to a hub somewhere, whereas GPIB is central to the PC operating the instruments.Tim