Art of Electronics Grand - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: AoE Grand
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:40:48 am
content: Art of Electronics Going DigitalIn 2019, when AoE3 is joined by its companion, AoE, The X-Chapters, we're thinking about combining the two into a single electronic product, let's call it AoE Grand, that's more than just two flat pdf files stapled together.We'd like to hear about what you'd like to see in AoE Grand: online features, platforms, access.How strongly do you feel about it? How valuable would an enriched digital edition be for you?Write to us if you'd like to contribute and we'll get back in touch with you individually.Thank you!David TranahCambridge University Pressaoegrand@cambridge.org

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:56:09 am
content: I just want the x chapters in printed format ASAP cause I’ve been waiting for them 2 years, and paper is what I like to study things in detail

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 10:05:45 am
content: I am also interested in the paper version. The digital version is not particularly valuable to me.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 10:09:57 am
content: Having been a loyal customer since 1e, I bought 3e which has a lot of references to the X chapters. I'd like to see the X chapters on paper first. I suspect that editing the entire of AoE into an electronic copy will detract from the delivery of this...However if you do an electronic copy which actually has working clickable cross-references I'd be interested. Might be more productive. ARRL does this with their handbooks which are one PDF per chapter with cross links. Plus I can read that one in the bathroom

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 10:34:00 am
content: A searchable PDF format would be really nice.

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 12:36:07 pm
content: What... is the X-chapters? sounds pretty sinister

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 12:47:45 pm
content: I much prefer the X chapters on paper.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 01:28:48 pm
content: Paper please.

author: Orson Maxwell
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 01:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: CM800 on August 24, 2018, 12:36:07 pm"Must be an X-chapter"I've been just looking to buy a (non-counterfeit) 3rd edition myself recently, and these X chapters got me interested too.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 02:51:02 pm
content: I'd like to have a pdf, please. I don't mind getting just a pdf version of the book without any additional features. Unlike other guys in the thread, for me pdf is more convenient than a big bulky book. Physical books a cool, but I'm limited in space.I also don't mind "enriched" version of the book provided I can open it on Linux. No DRM, online license checkers, etc please.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 03:01:31 pm
content: Hi,I dont care so much as long these people meet their deadline in 2019. It would be the first time in their publishing life !!Much luckWolfgang

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 06:17:51 pm
content: While there's something almost spiritual about flipping through a hard copy of the Art of Electronics, I think a searchable electronic version would be incredibly valuable.Can you currently get a searchable pdf of the the third edition?

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 06:25:23 pm
content: Wouldn't buy anything but a real book.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 11:20:37 pm
content: I'd only buy paper. I've got AoE 3 and was on the verge of writing to beg you to update AoE 2 when 3 came out.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 11:31:43 pm
content: Both .PDF (single flat file, please) and paper.

author: kg4arn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 07:23:28 am
content: I would buy the print version for sure. Wouldn’t buy the electronic version if I had to pay full price a second time. I might be interested in an electronic version if there’s some discount for owners of the print version.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 09:59:09 am
content: I expect to buy a paper version, and am not interested in an electronic version.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 11:26:40 pm
content: I'm interested in both. Paper for reading, PDF for reference.But I'd also be interested in an online version with curated user notes. For example, consider the online PHP manuals, e.g.http://php.net/manual/en/function.json-encode.php- scroll down to "user contributed notes". Often these add substantially useful information, but good curation is key.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2018, 12:16:17 am
content: Does this mean that holding out for the next version becomes sensible? Of course, buying the third edition isn't a waste regardless.

author: JeffreyLatter
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2018, 07:30:16 pm
content: I would appreciate both a printed and digital version.Printed for reading at home and making small notes and similar and digital version for when you're on the go, or as others have mentioned, for reference.

author: RobBarter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 07:56:09 pm
content: Any chance you can speed it up, say next 3 weeksMy son is starting an Electronics Degree at York Uni next month and has asked for AoE as a present....along with a new PC (bl**dy expensive PC!). Tried to fob him off with my 1st edition to no availAnd I agree with the above posts, both paper and digital have there uses.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 06:17:33 am
content: Who is this?Tim

author: RobBarter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 10:55:13 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 29, 2018, 06:17:33 amYou mean me (the poster above) or the OP? (David Tranah -Cambridge University Press)

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 10:59:20 am
content: Quote from: RobBarter on August 29, 2018, 10:55:13 amJust seems weird seeing such a question here, I guess.Tim

author: jipihorn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:23:48 am
content: No hesitation : the long waited X-Chapters on paper.The PDF version is a false dilemna choice, there is always a possibility of PDF when a paper version is available.J.

author: markus-k
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:24:30 am
content: I’d love to have a PDF or epub Version of the Art of Electronics. The paper version is just too chunky for me as I’d mostly read on the go. Ideally the paper version would include the digital version, I wouldn’t even mind paying a little extra. I don’t like the idea of buying such a book as a kindle editon only, not even owning a kindle. Hence I don’t own a copy of the third edition at the momentI don’t really know what the X-Chapters are though.

author: tocsa120ls
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:50:51 am
content: This is one product I would like to hold in my hands and read. Nothing beats the resolution and size of good old hardcover paper books.

author: kyis
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:57:35 am
content: I think both formats are valuable to me, releasing a pdf/ebook version first followed by a "pondering" period might prevent the printed edition from gathering too many erratas as well. ^^My experience with AoE3 is:The problem with the paper edition is that it weighs a dead horse and needs its own bag when traveling, but it's very nice for reading on its own at home. Erratas have to be looked up/scribbled in.The ebook version is very convenient for practical use when bench space is limited, personal notes can be made in context anywhere without limitations, and erratas/corrections can be applied without needing external references.I wish the ebook was free with the physical copy but that's not the way that works, I'm happy to pay for both.As for online features, I always wished I could pluck the circuits out of the pages and mess with them just to get a better grasp of their behavior, in an electronic version maybe I could click on a circuit and have it pop out a simulation in the browser, or open an LTspice file.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 12:05:58 pm
content: why not an HTML?The integration of animations (.gif) could be very useful to unterstand the concepts, also some .html calculation box (i.e. given Ic and Ib calculate hfe) could be useful and handy.Take a look here as example, in my eyes very well done:https://pveducation.org/Probably due to copyrights could be a pain.... as HTML can easely be copied.

author: AoE Grand
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:11:35 pm
content: The X-Chapters is the working title of the Companion to AoE3. It's not a new edition, but is going to contain more advanced/technical topics. It will be about 500 pages long and writing is expected to be finished around end 2018, with publication in the first half of 2020. David TranahI mean first half of 2019! Sorry, brain fail.

author: AoE Grand
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:24:28 pm
content: Thanks. Just want to make it clear to all; the X-Chapters will appear in paper. AoE3 itself exists in Kindle replica, which is much the same as pdf in appearance though lacks some functionality. There is tons of cross-referencing between AoE3 and AoEX, and what we're wondering is: would people like a *combined* electronic product. We are *not* thinking of producing a combined paper product: it would weigh 1.5 dead horses. The options, not mutually exclusive, are: a smart pdf (can't guarantee there'd be no DRM, but even if there was, no doubt someone would break it in 15 mins); or a Kindle print replica -- which may not have requisite functionality; or an html to which individuals could purchase some sort of licence: we'd keep the html up-to-date. We're producing the books using LaTeX and we can enable Mathjax so there would be good representation of symbols etc in a browser.

author: AoE Grand
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:27:57 pm
content: The Kindle edition is in fact a 'print replica'. You can view it using any Kindle reader, e.g. on a PC or tablet; because of the large figures and tables, it's probably better *not* to view on an actual Kindle

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:29:44 pm
content: An online HTML Version would be great, even better would be one that you can download and run locally, like the KiCad documentation for example.Large PDFs tend to be slow as molasses, and I would expect AoE plus the X-Chapters to be a very large PDF indeed

author: AoE Grand
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:34:41 pm
content: An interesting suggestion about commenting. We can enable this currently on papers in academic journals, and I'd guess it could be turned on for books too. Couldn't agree more about good curation and, of course, good moderation.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:24:43 pm
content: A combined version viewable on the web with search, cross-reference and notes would be awesome.

author: mjs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:41:38 pm
content: I like reading the book and having an electronic format (PDF) on my laptop for reference.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 03:26:52 pm
content: As many have said, some way of having access to both dead-tree and PDF version without paying full price twice would be great. Simultaneous use of a PDF X-chapters and the main book could work quite well - when you find a reference to a X-chapter you could pull up the PDF and directly navigate to it without trying to wrangle two large books.I'm less keen on HTML than PDF, more of interest to me would be a free download of applicable resources (e.g. schematic and SPICE source files) going up somewhere so that users can "play along" with what's being explained/explored in the book.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 03:31:05 pm
content: But why call it "Grand"? It's the combination of 3rd edition and 'X', shouldn't it be 3X? XXX?.....ohTim

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 03:49:38 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on August 29, 2018, 01:29:44 pmThose are probably scanned ripff files.A relevant counter example is ~30MB and loads like greased lightning on my 5yo 2core PC. Plus it is text searchable, not that that is necessary with the good indexes

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 04:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: AoE Grand on August 29, 2018, 01:24:28 pmYep, those who hoard lab equipments and have electronics labs at home are not to be trusted

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 06:47:16 pm
content: DRM doesn't slow pirates down much and it just annoys paying customers. I understand that there is likely someone in the management tree who wants to rid himself of accountability by shoving it in, though.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 06:54:02 pm
content: That's basically it.Bear in mind you can google for the text and get a pdf link of the entire AoE 3rd edition in about 20 seconds flat.I bought the printed version because I want to support the authors and publisher.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 06:56:42 pm
content: YES ! If there is an electronics book worth buying over the last decades, it is this one, bar none.IMHO, it does deserve support, so please buy if you can afford to.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:23:47 pm
content: WTF!!!!!!I just tried to order AoE 3rd from Amazon for delivery to Germany. I'm in the US. Amazon is not the seller, but are doing the fulfillment and they won't ship to Germany! And Amazon appears not to sell it.What is going on?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:31:00 pm
content: Try buying it from the publisher:http://admin.cambridge.org/academic/subjects/physics/electronics-physicists/art-electronics-3rd-edition

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 07:47:55 am
content: Both versions would be of interest. The paper-version to read during bed-time and the pdf-version as a useful ressource, which is searchable to obtain the best informations about topics/recommended parts and practices.Cant wait to get my hands on the X-chapters.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 09:30:24 pm
content: If you want it delivered to Germany, can you not order it on Amazon.de?https://www.amazon.de/Art-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz/dp/0521809266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535664287&sr=8-1&keywords=art+of+electronicMaybe there is something going on with "Buchpreisbindung" so that Amazon US cannot deliver to Germany. On the other hand, this one could be delivered to Germany:https://www.amazon.com/Art-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz/dp/0521809266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535664447&sr=8-1&keywords=art+of+electronicsBut I am in Germany at the moment...

author: jozamm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 10:51:59 am
content: Hi,I prefer a printed copy, a real book.The x chapters should be a seperate book so there is a clear difference between the current material and more advanced materialThanks,

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 12:48:36 pm
content: Paper. Always.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 01:00:44 pm
content: It is the 21st century. Do we still favor smears of black stuff on beaten mats of tree fiber?I am increasingly frustrated by the inability to do search, hyperlink, etc in a paper document.And even when I am standing in the ______ aisle of the supermarket, where is the  button?!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 01:13:13 pm
content: There are hyperlinks (cross references), keyword search (indexes) and you can use those little sticky paper tabs to bookmark the references as you are working.I think people are lazy or have forgotten how to use books.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 01:19:31 pm
content: Yes, absolutely yes, I prefer paper.I can have half a dozen datasheets/books whatever open in front of me, I appreciate the searchable PDF versions etc. but paper still has more utility when it comes to data or textbooks.If I'm reading fiction or something that stands alone then Kindle every time.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2018, 01:35:35 pm
content: That's actually a good point. Anything you read linearly (fiction etc) works fine on the computer (or ebook reader). Jumping around, paper!

author: colorado.rob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 01:43:11 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2018, 01:35:35 pmI'm the opposite -- linear reading works fine on paper, but if I need to follow references or search for something, I want an electronic medium. Google is a hell of a lot better at indexing a document than any living editor I have found. You cannot "control-F" a book.So, that's my biggest want: a Google-indexed document that can also be read off-line on a tablet.That said, I have a fetish for hard-bound books. And keep AoE3 within ready reach in my office.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 04:18:29 am
content: Paper first, please. Preferably on the Tyvek fiber based paper the US Navy supposedly uses for Reactor Manuals... You can get it wet and still read it. That way the book will outlive me.Then maybe PDF for all four texts...I own all editions to date.Don't believe me,,? Well:https://www.workman.com/brands/indestructiblesSteve

author: Jebnor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 04:47:18 am
content: Quote from: AoE Grand on August 24, 2018, 09:40:48 amNot at all. I've been through too many "Textbooks" that lose "Enriched content" after one use, or when the enrichment company decides to "Upgrade". A companion App would be quickly useless and forgotten about. Further, The enriched content of Cambridge University Press has a different interface than the other enriched content, which is different than the next one and so on. A dead-tree with ink doesn't change interface that I need to re-learn how to use, or have hidden objects that only reveal themselves when accessed via a particular (5+deep?) series of clicks.If I'm going to buy a book, I want to BUY the book so I can keep on my shelf for reference for years and I can pass on the knowledge to whoever want to read it.Have you seen "The Art of Computer Programming" by Knuth? It's a series of Tomes, which I am glad to pay $100 each for, because they are great. If AoE is the same standard as it has been, I'll gladly pay a pretty penny for it.Jeb

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 07:02:27 am
content: Dead tree version as physical heirloom to worship at on the altar. PDF for actual use and errata correction.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 08:38:06 am
content: I'd say no matter what will be the final decision, it's totally worth making a plain old pdf. It's zero efforts to produce (not sure how much it takes to publish, drm considerations, etc), so go for it.Ideally, I would like to have a pdf of every book I buy. I can even pay bit extra (but not too much as for me I'm not buying a book or a file, I'm buying content, which is the same not matter what media).

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 09:54:58 am
content: Quote from: colorado.rob on November 08, 2018, 01:43:11 amAnd CTRL-F works beautifully if you're only reading one document, definitely useful, I agree.However, if you've half a dozen documents I find it becomes way more tricky to cross reference and flip between/compare unless you have a screen large enough to display them side by side or a screen for each document.As for dead tree fiction, yeah, I do like my books and some I only ever read on paper (Marvin Minsky, The Turing Option for one, all the Pratchett books), but I find my Kindle Paperwhite has become my go to on most occasions, if a book really grabs me then it might make it onto my bookshelf in physical form too.

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 01:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on November 07, 2018, 01:00:44 pmYes!To AoE Grand: A PDF would be great as long as it doesn’t delay the print version. Also, the only feature I want in a PDF is links from the ToC and index to the contents.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 01:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 08, 2018, 09:54:58 amI think paper books is much worse in this regard because the reader:1) Cannot open same book twice (or more time)2) Cannot open all the books where they were open last time3) Cannot easily free working space by hiding unused windows in the tray/another desktop.4) Cannot copy-paste and easily exchange data from the book (arguable as everyone has a smartphone with a camera)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 02:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: exe on November 08, 2018, 01:19:47 pm2 is easy, for example:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Read-Past-Bedtime-Beaded-Bookmark/dp/1441322590https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cathedral-Bright-flags-individual-coloured/dp/B001VMAPE21 is rarely necessary, with well constructed books, and the solution to 2 makes it easy anyway.

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 07:36:38 am
content: Not sure what "X grand" version is. However I would like a searchable PDF of AoE 3rd. I already have the book and workbook. I prefer paper for reading and skimming looking up a section,examples, but searching for a specific term or example..PDF hands down.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 09:04:38 am
content: Quote from: exe on November 08, 2018, 01:19:47 pm1 is rarely necessary IME but see point 2 which makes it very easy to flip between places in a book.Bookmarks or postit note page markers make 2 simple.3, I shuffle documents so I can stack them up, spread them out, pin them to the wall, it's rarely a problem unless I'm working on an A3 or A2 printed schematic, which would be similarly difficult to read on screen IMO.4 is a good point but not a problem as most 'multiple' documents I use are electronic format, I print out the necesary bits so I can shuffle them, if I need to copy n paste then I open the elctronic version but I don't think I've ever needed to copy and paste from AoE.It's personal preference, mine is for printed material because it works for me, other people prefer documents on a screen, I'm unlikely to change unless I can suddenly find and afford to buy multiple 23" or larger displays that are as nice to read from as the one on my Kindle Paperwhite and also work as well as my 23" TFT monitor for video, graphics etc.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 09:35:56 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 09, 2018, 09:04:38 amYep, let's agree on that, and also admit that both paper- and pdf-version totally make sense to co-exists. And also pdf-version is so low effort to produce. Although, last statement can be wrong due to bureaucracy/copyright/protection issues.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 11:08:27 am
content: Quote from: exe on November 09, 2018, 09:35:56 amAbsolutely, PDF versons should exist and they're trivial to produce for any text that's been 'typeset' in an electronic format.