Multimeter for electric machines measurements - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: pallisi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 04:19:19 pm
content: Hi all,I want to buy a reliable andsafehandheld multimeter for electric machine measurements. My budget is between 200-350 euros. My bigger concern is safety and the reliable of the brand. I would measure voltages between 200-700Volts. I would also appreciate, but it is not a mandatory as an option, to have some more specific measurements available (like duty cycle etc).I have made a small buying research and I think that my options can be:1. Agilent AGT-U1273A2. Brymen BM 869If you can suggest something else for me it would be appreciated. I also mention that the multimeter must be bought from an eu country for tax issues.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 05:20:20 pm
content: There is also the Brymen BM525 which has logging built in, the Amprobe HD160 CAT IV 1000 rated too, and don't forget the Fluke 87V although it is rated a bit less at CAT III 1000/ CAT IV 600.

author: denelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 10:40:07 pm
content: I know a guy who once mistook a 25kV bus bar for a 600V one.When he tried to measure the voltage, the multimeter exploded and the leads vaporized.By miracle, he was not seriously injured, only dazzled by the flash.He had a Fluke multimeter.So I guess Fluke multimeters are safe.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 11:08:01 pm
content: You might want U1272A over U1273A. OLED display consumes a lot of power, therefore battery life is poor. Visibility is also bad when working outside.

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 08:29:39 am
content: Have a look at the Fluke 177 or Fluke 179.

author: pallisi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 05:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on April 12, 2014, 11:08:01 pmThanx for the advice. I haven't mentioned that.Quote from: denelec on April 12, 2014, 10:40:07 pmHe must bless God everyday.It seems that Fluke manufactures very reliable meters. I have to take a look of these DMM as well, but I think that they are a little bit overpriced compared to the Agilents.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 05:19:11 pm
content: I was in Ron Tomlin one Saturday and they got in an old Fluke from the Corporation ( many years ago it was the NDC - colloquially known as Never Done Correctly, nothing much has changed aside from the costs) that came in a "Faulty". Turns out they used it to try to measure a MV line, 11kV definitely was a little too much for the meter, which stopped working. Inside the case there was a PCB bare of tracks completely on the bottom, with the metal vapour deposited as a copper coat on the inside of the housing. Only thing that survived was the battery, the 11A fuse and the display, even the switch was burnt out. Leads were the usual corporation broken and held together with tape and nails style, and were lumpy as well.You would think an electrician would know the difference between a LV and a MV cable and associated switchear.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 05:34:28 pm
content: There are safety categories for multimeter designs now as well as standards like IP54 and IP67 for ruggedness:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter#Safetyhttp://faculty.riohondo.edu/jfrala/fluke_multimeters_-_abcs_of_multimeter_safety_multimeter_safety_and_you_application_note.pdfTo your list I would add:Amprobe HD160CFluke 80 Series VFluke 170 Series

author: pallisi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 09:15:52 pm
content: As my research for a DMM continues I have some questions to ask and some first conclusions.Firstly, I find the Fluke too overpriced, actually the ratio price/features is not good. But I am not sure if I have to exclude them.I make all of my measures in sheltered places, so I am not interested in high IP devices. In contrary, because I measure a lot of inverter drives, i have to choose between high cat numbers.Another concern is the warranty and support I can have. Agilents as well as the Flukes, have good reputation for their support. On the other hand, Brymen is not a well known brand and for their support I know nothing at all.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 09:57:24 pm
content: Have a look at the Voltcraft VC950:http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/124705/VOLTCRAFT-VC950TRMS-digital-multimeter-VC900-Series-10000100000-Counts-CAT-IV-600V?queryFromSuggest=trueSafe, well made, not too expensive, comes with good accessories and logging software.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 10:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: pallisi on April 13, 2014, 09:15:52 pmWith a Fluke you are in part paying for the development history, robustness and reliability of the brand. These are "hidden" features that you cannot see on the outside but can be valuable in industrial settings.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2014, 11:57:41 pm
content: Brymen is the OEM for some Amprobe, Extech, and others. The build quality is second took none. The BM86X and BM52X series are rated CAT IV 1000V. My experience with Brymen after sales support to be very responsive.There is a reason why I have three of their models.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 12:42:05 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on April 13, 2014, 11:57:41 pmThe BM82X series are also rated CAT IV 1000V. They are basically equivalent of the 52X series without the internal data logging.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 12:52:42 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on April 14, 2014, 12:42:05 amhowever the fuses are only 600V on the 82x, but you're probably not going to be directly measuring current using a DMM on industrial machines.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 12:56:25 am
content: Quote from: Fsck on April 14, 2014, 12:52:42 amYou are correct. They are rated CAT IV 1000V only for voltage measurement. 600VAC/300VDC for the current jacks:http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/cata820/Bm820L4.htm

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 12:58:44 am
content: I would recommend the BM525 for your specific use.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 05:30:41 am
content: Quote from: pallisi on April 13, 2014, 05:02:22 pmThere is no doubt that Fluke is premium priced and when viewed in the features context as it provides poor "bang for buck".Now if I were a Fluke salesperson, I would argue that the extra $$$ buys you 10 year minimum warranty whereas Agilent is 3 years.So you have to decide whether Fluke's premium price is worth an extra 7 years of warranty. You also have to decide whether Fluke will be in business 10 years from now to honor the warranty.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 06:14:21 am
content: The CAT IV 1000V rating is a bit of a sales gimmick.The industry standard is for meters to be tested for CAT III 1000V. They automatically get a CAT IV 600V rating, as the transient voltage testing is the same (8000V/2Ohm). It doesn't mean that a Fluke, Agilent or Gossen wouldn't pass the CAT IV 1000V higher margin (12000V/2Ohm).Brymen can't have a separate CAT rating for the current jacks. For a 1000V rating, the whole meter must comply, including fuses and trace separation (8mm for CAT III 1000V). 2000V (500VA) is applied for one minute to the jacks with blown fuses in place. No arcing must occur.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 06:51:43 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 14, 2014, 06:14:21 amWhat are you saying? Brymen has faked their ratings? Passing a higher test does not mean anything? Agilent, Fluke, and Gossen don't rate their meters for CAT IV 1000V but we should assume they pass this test? Obviously they either don't pass this test or they don't care to try because if they did it would be a great marketing point.Until I see evidence to the effect that Brymen has falsified their ratings I will believe the UL listings and the CAT ratings.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 07:13:08 am
content: You are distorting my post:1.I didn't say Brymen faked the rating.2.I didn't say a higher rating doesn't mean anything.3.I didn't say Fluke and Gossen would pass the CAT IV 1000V rating.All I am saying is that a CAT IV 1000V rating is obviously not an industry standard, otherwise the DMM market leaders would do the required testing.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 11:49:37 am
content: I have both a Brymen BM857 and a Fluke 179, and I can see the Fluke would seem to me that it would "survive a nuclear apocalypse" in a better shape than the Brymen (check the teardown I did of the 179here). However, my Brymen unit is far from recent (circa 2000) and is not their top of the line.Regarding support, I only had to use Brymen's, and I can say it was pretty responsive (checkhere.When I was in the decision process to buy the 179 two years ago, it was replacing a 20+ year old Minipa. Despite it was an expensive unit my reason was that, if anything had the better chances to last me at least 20+ more years, I wouldn't mind paying whatever price. I love the Brymen, but the 179 is still my go-to guy.(kinda off-topic) wouldn't be awesome to have a review that shows several top-of the-line DMMs being blasted by a transient and being analyzed afterwards?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2014, 04:42:21 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 14, 2014, 07:13:08 amOK, my apologies. I was not intentionally distorting your post. It was genuinely the way I read it.