Lab NBN Installed! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 12:34:52 am
content: FINALLY!A picture tells a thousand words...

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 12:38:02 am
content: I like the ping time. Faster speed then my wired connection at home. Yet my cellphone is still faster - something odd about that.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 01:56:08 am
content: $440 - $100 = $340 savings ??!! What a BONUS !! Any other "hidden" charges?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 02:00:02 am
content: Quote from: digsys on August 21, 2017, 01:56:08 amBetween both offices I will be saving over $500/month!No other hidden charges, month by month plan.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 02:56:57 am
content: Direct Ethernet connection is up:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 02:58:48 am
content: And my old ISP have hit me with a 30day cancellation clause, so $400 down the hole.Andthey want the VDSL modem back!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 04:59:27 am
content: Well, you'll recoup more than that from the first month's savings ... and as for the modem - I would have no problems handing it back.You're not going to miss it, are you???

author: UpLateGeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 07:35:02 am
content: (In case you missed my post on the video)Business-grade services are allegedly coming Q4 2017, at least according to the current product roadmap:http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/documents/Integrated-Product-Roadmap.pdfAnd I say "allegedly" because the roadmap notes they've been delayed, and have scheduled "coming soon" on the roadmap for many years. Not to mention the business-grade NTD and high-speed symmetric AVCs are scheduled for "2019+".Bill Morrow and Mitch Fifeld will spout off at anyone about how great they are for keeping the nbn(tm) running on schedule, but completely ignore the fact that they've missed so many deadlines on the product roadmap, with some delayed for years! Seriously, we're being duped so badly by those guys.?

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 09:31:56 am
content: I hate how the 20/20 speedtest says "87% faster than the rest of Australia"Damn..But good on you that you've double the upload!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 11:37:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 21, 2017, 02:58:48 amThey want the modem back?! Those things are literally given away here.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 11:47:44 am
content: Seems like a reasonable price for that speed and type of contract. Agree that it is madness that business customers can not pay for a Plus version with guaranteed grade of service etc...

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 02:11:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 21, 2017, 02:58:48 amTeardown first?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 03:07:23 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on August 21, 2017, 02:11:06 pmI know that's tongue-in-cheek ... but I can imagine the ISP billing Dave for the original RRP on the thing if he did.

author: level3
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 08:58:45 pm
content: In video you mentioned that you can join 4 connection with router to get 4x times speed. This is actually impossible for single session. Meaning that you will get 400meg only when downloading/uploading with multiple streams like example with torrents, but with single session, lats say youtube upload, you will be limited to speed on single connection. Trust me, I'm Cisco CCIE SP engineer

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 09:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: level3 on August 21, 2017, 08:58:45 pmNot quite impossible, just requires a little more than just 4 random connections and a router. Nothing stopping 4 specific connections being bonded.

author: level3
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 09:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 21, 2017, 09:29:43 pmSounds good, doesn't workModern routers and switches do not support per packet load balancing, not only because it make no sense but also because it creates more problems than it solves. But even with old shitty router and per packet load balancing, carrier (especially big ones ) will never customise something which is builded base on standard just to satisfy one user.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 12:34:27 am
content: Quote from: level3 on August 21, 2017, 09:45:23 pmWell, speaking as the man who used to do exactly this for his customers when he ran the network for several ISPs: It's trivial to do, for most ISP's setups it is just adding a few lines in a RADIUS file. It only gets tricky if you're trying to bond connections that land on different LNSs, and even that is doable. Never really had any problems with it and certainly never found any kit that had the physical line support for it (i.e. mutliple ADSL lines or similar) that couldn't bond a few PPPoATM sessions together and balance load across them.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 10:53:38 pm
content: Nice! We got FTTH here years back, was super excited. Surprised we even got it here at all TBH. Seems that often only the big cities get the good stuff. Ours uses same/similar equipment, made by Alcatel-Lucent. In theory it should be able to do gigabit asymmetrical (as in, the equipment itself supports it). My ISP provides up to 250mbps down, I'm on a 50/30 plan. The way it was explained to me, they have about 64 customers on a single strand of fibre from the central office, then there is a neighborhood cabinet that splits it passively (like a prism of sorts) into different wavelengths going to different customers in that area. The ONT itself has no laser, it actually bounces back the light to the CO to transmit, this is part of why it's asymmetrical, I guess the way it works is there is a time slot for download and one for upload. But not 100% sure. I was not involved in the setup but I kinda saw all the equipment go in as I work in the CO and I always like to poke my nose in that stuff and ask questions.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 11:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: level3 on August 21, 2017, 08:58:45 pmYep, could be interesting for Him if he used some kind of multi-threaded youtube upload.On a good router things like webcams could be moved to a specific line.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 11:55:48 pm
content: Quote from: level3 on August 21, 2017, 08:58:45 pmOk, thanks.I'm lead to believe there is a way to do this though with hardware bonding?(Not that I plan too, 100M/40M is plenty)

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 12:28:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 22, 2017, 11:55:48 pmNot hardware per se, but MPPP, Multilink Point-to-Point Protocol. Depending on the technology connecting you to your ISP your 'session' is most probably carried in a PPP session (i.e. PPPoATM, PPPoE etc.). Multilink PPP allows several PPP sessions to be co-ordinated and packets to be reverse multiplexed over several sessions simultaneously creating one over-arching session.You could do this in hardware if you really needed to but the packet steering is normally done in software, handing packet buffers off to hardware to do the actual transmission/reception. The limit that determines whether you'd need to hand this off to hardware is in terms of how many packets per second you need to switch, as opposed to how many bytes per second. That is, you can handle the switching with a processor that would be swamped by trying to work at 'wire speed' because it's only working at packet rates that are ~1000 lower than wire rates.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 04:30:02 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 22, 2017, 10:53:38 pmThat's pretty smart, saves massive amount of power on laser transmitters. Wonder what the modulator is made of though, definitely not your average LCD in front of a mirror.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 11:23:36 am
content: Quote from: Hypernova on August 23, 2017, 04:30:02 amThe lasers are modulated directly. It makes for a fun bit of circuit design as a laser essentially wants a constant current drive and you want to turn it off and on a billion times a second and still have phase jitter measured in 10s of picoseconds. Definitely one of those jobs, like SMPS design, that you give to people who do it on a daily basis.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 03:02:27 pm
content: Well,now you have 3x the speed for 2x the money, compared to my subscription.I would happily take that deal, unfortunately, there is only VDSL here. Like, since 1950 they did not manage to install a new wire in the most densely populated part of the world.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 12:53:37 am
content: As a long time watcher and first time commenter of your videos i would like to take the chance to answer a few of your questions that you raised in your video () and ()I am an internet service provider, most of my customers are business and multimedia customers such as your self1. There is no such thing as "unlimited" especially not for under $120 per month (excluding phone) - any carrier ( and i can name prob 20 - 30 off the top of my head are overselling the capacity of their network hoping you will not ever use the full capacity of your connection. Most carriers have 50:1 contention which generally is 50 people to the one connection of your speed. My residential plans are all much lower then that and i can get constant speeds all day and all night.2. There is Business NBN plans with SLAs ( FTTB, FTTH, FTTC ) but not for fixed wireless or FTTN. I offer sla's on my business plans.3. In your first video you pointed out that there was 3 carriers in the basement and you didn't understand why they could not allow you to top into the connection. There are several factors to this. The connections could be layer 2 ( point to point connection ) in other words connecting two offices in different locations together or linking an office with its servers in a datacentre. I have many business connections like this.All in all if you choose your carrier right, and you ask the right questions you will get a good service. Nothing comes for free. I would stay well away from any provider offering you "unlimited" for under $120 a month before adding a phoneP.S If you google my handle you will find my websiteKeep up the great videos - love watching them at 2AM in the morning in my NOC (Network Operations Centre) with my 100/100mbps fibre

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 08:57:40 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 26, 2017, 12:53:37 amThanks for joining the discussion. As for your comment above, that's not true at all. There are many large Australian RSP's (Retail Service Providers) which offer unlimited data for well under AUD$100 per month (including Telstra). You could be downloading several terabytes per month and they won't blink an eyelid.Data is cheap, decent customer service isn't. Yes, your speed will vary depending on their contention ratios and you do get what you pay for but generally, you stick with the bigger guys, contention isn't an issue, even during peak times. For example, I'm with MyRepublic and can easy download and upload fairly close to my line sync speed any time of the day or night. Gnif is another one on this forum and gets the same kind of results. The difference is, we use proper networking gear at home as opposed to your regular residential customer who complains about getting poor performance on a congested 2.4GHz Wi-Fi spectrum.As for phones, they have little to do with internet connections these days, especially on the NBN since legacy phone services are now gone and everything is VoIP. Those who want "land line" phone services often pay extra. Gone are the days where you needed a "phone line" to access the internet.Years ago I worked for a very large telco supplying Telstra wholesale services. Even our "staff plans" which were 50% off the retail prices made the company money.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 09:08:43 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 26, 2017, 08:57:40 amTotally Untrue, There is no such thing is unlimited in life, I am not talking about the amount of data. As an ISP / Datacentre owner i am talking about the speed. With wholesale data you are paying per MB with unmetered data. Unmetered is not unlimited, there is a big radianceThe average cost of $10-$15 per MBit. DDOS transit is between $20-$25 per MBit.Quote from: Halcyon on August 26, 2017, 08:57:40 amThe cost is the same for each carrier, to make it profitable things need to be scrapped. As you mentioned most times you will see customer service being scrapped. Telstra has started over selling their network which has caused issues we are seeing of late.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 09:18:07 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 26, 2017, 09:08:43 amMy mistake, I thought you were talking about data, not speed.Of course speed isn't unlimited. No one is expecting it to be. Most RSPs will provide up to the NBN 100/40 Mbps speed tier with some providing services on the 1Gbps tier. It all comes down to what you're willing to pay for. I'm on the 100/40 Mbps tier paying under $100/mth.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 10:00:00 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 26, 2017, 12:53:37 amOf course. By me wanting "unlimited" I mean not being held hostage to a 500GB (at best) cap (including uploads) that every business ISP I have dealt with has imposed. And/or they want ridiculous amount for for extra data.QuoteI'm now aware that I can get an NBN connected SLA if I want one, through smaller specialist providers only it seems, that's good to know and is my fallback option. I have had another small (one-man-band) ISP contact me and offer a real NBN SLA agreement.QuoteIt's not that they wouldn't allow me to tap into their connection, they most certainly would, for $800, $1200, and $2000+ a month for 10M/10M. They would not allow other providers to use their fibre though.QuoteWhich is every single mainstream NBN provider you can name.QuoteEmail me a quote!I'm at least going to ditch Exetel.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 11:09:01 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 26, 2017, 10:00:00 am

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 11:20:38 am
content: Seems Telstra have a business NBN plan with a whopping 100G data limit:https://www.telstra.com.au/content/dam/tcom/personal/help/pdf/cis-business/broadband-ethernet-dsl/business-critical-information-summary-tbb-on-the-nbn-100gb.pdf

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 12:07:53 pm
content: QuoteHow is this even legal?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 12:14:29 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on August 26, 2017, 12:07:53 pmYou're not from Australia are you?The NBN is pretty much he first time you've been able to chose a month-by-month internet plan in Australia

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 03:30:34 pm
content: QuoteSee this upsets me dearly. I don't pay for my uploads so why should i charge my customers for it. All my NBN / ADSL plans all come with unmetered uploads at no additional cost. I also offer a free static ip address which not many carriers do, they offer dynamic static ( changes every time you change your modem ) or dynamic ip address. I do not offer data packs i just offer to upgrade the customer to the next plan. On our billing system its a few clicks which tells our radius server what to do.QuoteNot to discourage any of the small ISPS (we where one once) but be very careful. Its not cheap to setup your own ISP, most suppliers are just resellers or some one elses gear with a mark up. Most can not answer the touch questions when put on the spot. Peering with NBNCO is expensive. We peer with them in SA, VIC, NSW and QLD. if you are not in these states we can still offer you internet you just are off net meaning you use one of our partners networks to get to our core network and then our network outbound - i wont bore you guys with the specificsQuoteThat does sound like a rip off, i would be interested to see the finer details, it comes down to your location and what infrastructure is ion your park, but even still if the carriers are there in the basement they should be able to offer you an "on net" hand off so this puzzles me that they wanted to charge so much. It seems like they where running a whole new fibre run. Then again they may not have known that they had gear there. Back in the day when we used Telstra they didnt know they had a hand off in our comms rack. As the IT management company for Ballarat Technology Park we had to tell them on multiple occasions when a tenant wanted to connect, In the end we ran our own fibre and ditched Telstra.In video you mentioned that you can join 4 connection with router to get 4x times speed. This is actually impossible for single session. Meaning that you will get 400meg only when downloading/uploading with multiple streams like example with torrents, but with single session, lats say youtube upload, you will be limited to speed on single connection. Trust me, I'm Cisco CCIE SP engineerQuoteQuoteI beg to differ, Have a look at this:https://www.peplink.com/technology/internet-load-balancing/We have done this with a few clients that could not afford fibre but needed more speed then ADSL. The only catch is HTTPS will only ever run on one connection other wise the packets will get jumbled. HOWEVER.... if you user a layer 2 trunk between your office and DC with these connections you can get it to work flawlessly - We have done both and it works wonders 24/7 365QuoteI would love to, just dont have your phone number. I have sent you my contact details via PMQuoteProbably the wisest move you will ever make, lets leave it at that. I could tell / show you some horror stories about Exetel and fibre services

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 03:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 26, 2017, 03:30:34 pmSCTP or Multipath TCP, just saying

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 01:44:34 am
content: ANSASERVERS, I had a quick look at your residential NBN plans and have a couple of questions.You seem considerably more expensive than the others, what can you offer over the likes of Telstra, MyRepublic, Internode etc...? I get that there are RSPs out there (such as Dodo) who can't match the level of service of the bigger players. I'm with MyRepublic and can hit my modems sync speed in terms of actual download/upload speeds, regardless of the time or day of the week, the performance I get at 7pm on a weekday is the same at 3am on a Sunday.Your site has a caveat in regards to "Guaranteed Speed" but I'm having trouble finding the fine print (I even looked in your General Terms of Service and your Acceptable Usage Policy). Can you explain what that guarantee means, what it covers and what it doesn't?

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 02:35:30 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 27, 2017, 01:44:34 amHi Mate, thanks for your question. A few things i would like to point out. 1. We have the lowest (as far as i am aware - generally check every 6 months from the NBNCO speed index) contention ratios. 2. We only have Australian support, support staff that have vast industry experience. No more going through that dam check list when you are on the phone as our competitors do. If you report a problem we work quickly to fix it and allow you to get on with your life. We can see the stats of your service and proactively get you the best speed. 3. No long wait times. Most calls with us are answered in under 2 minutes ( most times within 20 - 40 seconds ) Not because we don't have the clientele, its because we have proper procedures in place to proactively source out problems and rectify them long before the customer notices. As of yet we do not offer 24/7 phone support, however we do offer 24/7 365 ticket based support. 24/7 level 1 phone support is something i am looking into, just not interested in ruining the experience for our customers.Quote from: Halcyon on August 27, 2017, 01:44:34 amMy apologies, i will get our webmaster to look into this. The guaranteed speed does not cover residential plans at the moment, we are doing upgrades to our core routers as we speak that will allow us to promise speeds of -0 to -20% and +0 to +20% speed any time of the day. Business customers will have -0 to -10% and +0 to +10% all day. We have multiple different upstream providers and we are constantly in negotiations for better per mb prices for the customer The guaranteed speed will cover, FTTC, FTTH and HFC. It will not cover FTTN and fixed wireless as there is to many variables. However with FTTN we guarantee the speed to the nearest NBN POI (Point of interconenct) usually somewhere in your local area. With FFTN we urge any customer when they get connected to get a tech out to make sure their line is in the best shape before they take up the service.I fell bad hijacking the thread and feel i am selling my services, when i am not trying to. My apologies if i am rattling a few feathers.Hope this helpsEDIT: Business customers already have -0 to -10% and +0 to +10% all day

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 02:53:15 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 02:35:30 amThis is the problem I've been having with NBN Co. since I got connected a year ago. The copper between me and the node is old, crusty and has issues. It's been better over the last month, but you wouldn't believe the pain I've had to go through just to get them to agree to network remediation. The joints in the cables were so corroded, I would drop line sync constantly, sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for hours, a few times it just dropped and never came back.Since replacing the joints, the service has been relatively stable, however there is 800 metres of poor quality copper between me and the node and I can't achieve any better than 30 Mbps downstream line sync. If the lines were of decent quality, it's not out of the realm to expect double what I'm getting now.But NBN Co. aren't interested. They seem to think a minimum service of 12 Mbps is enough to consider the connection as adequate. My complaint even went all the way up to Brad Whitcomb (NBN Chief Customer Officer - Residential) and the response I got from them when I said 30 Mbps was the best I could get: "That's great news!".As I mentioned in another thread, if Telstra offered reasonable 4G data pricing, I would disconnect from the NBN tomorrow. Even with marginal reception on my phone (around -105 dBm), I can still pull 33 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 03:07:59 am
content: Are you your on RSP?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 03:11:08 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 03:07:59 amI'm not sure what the question is. I'm a residential customer with MyRepublic. I was with Telstra. Both RSPs have been extremely helpful but are unfortunately at the mercy of NBN Co. Even the techs that attended time after time agreed with me and could see the problem, however were powerless to do anything about it. They just made notes on the system.Despite only getting 30 Mbps down, I realise I'm actually one of the "lucky" ones. My neighbours put up with much worse. But in this day and age, it's a joke.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 03:31:57 am
content: NBNCo does not like customers going above their RSP's and contacting them. However saying that, have you paid for a new line to be installed? Have they told you where the worst copper is?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 04:30:20 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 03:31:57 amBrand new copper lead-in from the first pole in the street (We didn't have to pay anything as we were under the "original" roll-out plan and NBN Co. covered the cost). The dodgy copper is from that point all the way back to the node. It's been on the poles/in the ground for who knows how long. There have been numerous open circuits which have been repaired, along with the joints, but as several techs have mentioned, the copper is so brittle than it just breaks when they touch it.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 07:13:35 am
content: You can pay for your own fibre to be pulled through the pits and into your house and then your FTTHI did that at my house, was easier then the crappy copper cabling

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 07:53:33 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 07:13:35 amI'd love to do that, unfortunately it appears to be far too expensive. I dare say running several hundred metres of fibre isn't going to be cheap and their non-refundable $600 quotation fee seems a bit steep. Some users are quoted several thousand dollars for <100m of fibre, so I dare say mine would in the 10's of thousands.If you know of a cheaper way, please, let me know!

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 08:01:24 am
content: Mate there is always a way, I can name several ways but none that i would mention in public. I have a few friends at Telstra from my Telstra days that i might be able to ask. Private message me your suburb

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 08:06:43 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 08:01:24 amPM sent. I'll even sign up for one of your expensive plans if you can pull some strings ;-)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 08:38:03 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 27, 2017, 08:06:43 amI think you mean "Pull some fibres"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 08:52:04 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 26, 2017, 03:30:34 pmWow:https://www.ausnetservers.com.au/internet/business-nbn-plans/$166/m for a 100M/40M guaranteed speed with unlimited uploads. 500GB download would be plenty for me, as that's what I have now for download+upload.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 08:59:01 am
content: ThanksGot a promotion running until the end of the month 750GB for $166.00. Extra 250GB for free.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 09:06:12 am
content: So Dave..... (Took me ages to find your name - Thanks Twitter hehe) Why is your website hosting in the USA and hiding behind Crapflare... oops i meant CloudFlare

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 10:57:27 am
content: Simple, cheaper hosting, faster response to the majority of the users ( USA and EU for the most part) and low latency, plus the Cloudflare is there to do caching of the most intensive data blocks.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 11:17:26 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 27, 2017, 02:53:15 amExpect the NBN uptime (FTTN/FTTC) to be a lot worse than a comparable ADSL2+ connection as well. If the local power goes, so does the power to the cabinet. Unlike ADSL2+ where you can route your own battery backup to the modem to provide enough backup time for your application, you now have to rely on the cabinet to provide the backup for you. This already farcical situation is made even worse by the way they've disconnected all analog phone systems and routed it through a single point of failure.It is also a shame for all those on cable connections, who already get more than the current dogs breakfast edition NBN.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 12:00:29 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 27, 2017, 10:57:27 amFor starters, cloud flare does not make hosting cheaper, if anything it creates more problems then its worth, Their CDN which is why most people use them is outdated and the implications to the SEO side of your side is scary to say the leastQuote from: X on August 27, 2017, 11:17:26 amLook i don't like the FTTN or FTTC, but there is little both as a user or an ISP that i can do about it. However i do need to correct you that the nodes have batteries in the bottom of them to continue providing connectivity for emergency purposes for up to 12 hourshttp://blog.jxeeno.com/wp-content/uploads/fttn_umina_insidenode.jpgThose orange units are Batteries, the amount of batteries depends on the size of the unit and amount of homes its providing power for

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 12:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 12:00:29 pmYes, and the post wasn't directed at you specifically. Just one of my gripes with the NBN.Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 12:00:29 pmI am well aware of the battery backups inside the cabinets, but my own battery backup can keep my connection (router, modem, switch, and some local systems that may be on at the time) alive for 35-50 hours (load dependent, and so long as the exchange is operational during the blackout, which most of the time it is). If you can beat that with the orange batteries (especially after they have suffered from degradation by heat from equipment and weather conditions) then I will be impressed.I also have complete control over the backup system, and the batteries are stored in a more suitable environment than inside a cabinet outside with what appears to be no thermal insulation from the outside world. And, unlike the government agency or contractor tasked to maintain these things, I can maintain my own backup properly. Would have been less of an issue if they went to the original optical splitters.That's also just the internet connection. I still have phones that are powered from the phone line itself. So long as the exchange is up, the phones still work during the blackout.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 12:51:46 pm
content: Quote from: X on August 27, 2017, 12:33:42 pmDude this isnt a competition of who has better batteries.... I corrected an incorrect statement where you posted that during a black out there would be no power which is totally incorrect. The implications of if the government did that would be mind boggling.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 01:22:13 pm
content: Deutsche Telekom skimped on battery backup in their outdoor cabinets. And they're migrating all customers from the ISDN based telephone network to SIP at the moment, i.e. they're installing MSANs with FXO cards for those who have POTS only. Everyone else with internet access simply gets SIP directly (VoIP router). During a power outage nobody will be able to use their landline anymore.As an early adopter I had the pleasure to experience that several times already. Minimize costs and maximize profits, as always.The issue with youtube Dave showed in his video isn't suprising. The ISPs/telcos down under are used to exorbitant tarifs and with the NBN they have to compete with themselves. The solution is to create a two class internet access to keep traffic costs low for NBN and to give customers an incentive to upgrade to the more expensive first class.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 04:23:45 pm
content: Quote from: X on August 27, 2017, 12:33:42 pmForget about that. The telephone system will go down along with the electric grid if the shit hits the fan. But who are you going to call anyway? Emergency services will be too busy already. Over here they recommend to stock non-perishable food and water.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 08:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: madires on August 27, 2017, 01:22:13 pmWe've had three (3) power outages in the past 20 years, the last one, x-mas 2015, was the hardest, lasting almost one and a half hour. The other two maybe 10 minutes each... UPS systems are not selling very well...

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 09:39:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 27, 2017, 04:23:45 pmMy sentaments exactly. If you have no power you have much better things to worry about then if you have a telephone or internet. Our depenace on technology is a joke

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 09:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 09:39:53 pmHaving a phone line is nice for emergencies. Something like a heart attack or frail people stuck in an elevator is what I would call a legitimate worry.

author: ANSASERVERS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 10:29:37 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 27, 2017, 09:44:12 pmToo true... however more and more of us are walking around with mobile phones. My grand parents even use mobiles rather then the landline now daysSome of the new Schneider electric elevators have pstn and mobile emergency call buttons... nifty as!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 10:49:42 pm
content: If I'm going to be stuck in an elevator during a zombie apocalypse blackout,I'd prefer to have my crusty old toolbox with me(and a Fluke or twohey, gotta look Pro, even when shtf )and not rely on the phoneI reckon the people stuck in there with me would soon agree with my 'self service'once they realize their phones have 'no service'FWIW I won't need to watch a Youtube video on the phone to sort out the stuck elevator,it won't be pretty but we'll get out

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 11:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 27, 2017, 06:47:19 pmIt's complicated.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 12:55:09 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 22, 2017, 10:53:38 pmThe system itself isn't asymmetric. That's just the way the service was offered to you. We had the same system fro several years with a full 1Gbps in both directions, sustainable all day and night. Now I've just moved to the third world (the UK) and the best I can get is 1Mbps. Its awful.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 02:00:24 am
content: Quote from: coppice on August 28, 2017, 12:55:09 amYou can't say that without knowing exactly which transmission standard is being talked about. Some of them are inherently asymmetric, some aren't.The first 1 Gb/s fibre to the home standard was multi-drop, I can't remember the standard number off the top of my head, and had an inherently asymmetric character - it was, rather foolishly IMHO, baked into the scheme used. It used a statistically multiplexed broadcast downstream (i.e. diversity) and a time division multiplexed upstream. So, if no one else was using it you could get the full 1 Gb/s downstream, but you were limited to your timeslot for the upstream, something like 10 - 25 Mb/s depending on quite how many stations were on a single fibre loop.That standard didn't get much of an uptake and I suspect it was because even the telcos realised that it was a compromise too far and would be too limiting before its natural replacement time came around, even though it was comparatively cheap. The cost, after all, is in all the digging*, not the fibre itself, and it's foolish to go for a standard that has minimising fibre usage at its heart and encourages you to lay a very inflexible multi-drop fibre structure that won't likely be useful for future schemes.Most of the FTTH/FTTP that's being rolled out now uses some form of passive optical network that's essentially a cut-down version of the wavelength division multiplexing that's been around on the 'big boy's kit' for more than 20 years.*Back when I used to actually have to worry about paying for this stuff, it cost about £500 a metre to bury a duct under a metalled road, about £100 a metre in a soft verge. The few pounds a metre for the actual fibre is almost noise against those figures.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 10:05:11 am
content: Quote from: Augustus on August 27, 2017, 08:31:09 pmLucky you! In my area we have about 5 short outages during summer caused by thunderstorms. Most outages are just a few minutes, but the DSLAMs need 7 minutes to be operational again. We also have a few undervoltage events each year. Therefore I prefer to have a nice UPS for my SOHO data center.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 02:37:08 am
content: Quote from: ANSASERVERS on August 27, 2017, 09:39:53 pmUpon reflection, I mostly agree with that sentiment. At least a phone line that is separate from the Internet would be handy, and those copper wires have been working well for this purpose for over a century. I would like to see a modern version of the old crank-the-magneto phones.Well, if need be there's always satellite phone.I was mainly thinking about minor/localised blackouts though, not apocalypse-grade or flood conditions. I can see this affecting businesses or mission-critical systems that need to be online with a high uptime.I agree our dependence on tech is a joke now, but let's be honest, we've been dependant on technology since before the invention of the wheel. Perhaps this NBN may not be so bad after all.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 03:10:28 am
content: At least in Australia we can pretty much rely upon the mobile network to be available and most people have a mobile phone. Even during extended power outages, cell towers continue to function and if you're with Telstra and/or anywhere near civilisation, there is enough cell overlap so than even if one small one goes down, there are at least another 2 or 3 to cover the hole. Even if you don't have an active mobile service, any old phone provided it supports 3G or newer will be able to call emergency services without a SIM card.Having had a digital mobile phone since around 1998, I can probably count in minutes the number of times the network has not been accessible due to congestion or outages. Even during new year's eve celebrations in the middle of Sydney, I can still make a call in/out using my phone.I don't think losing the old copper network is as bad as people make it out to be. For several years, companies which service and maintain lifts (elevators) have been upgrading emergency phones from PSTN to mobile and/or VoIP services. Same goes with remotely monitored fire alarm and sprinkler systems. Even if there are systems out there that haven't been upgraded, will generally warn people with an alert that there is no longer an active telephone line connected.Those in South Australia would probably know better than anyone when the entire state was blacked out. Did you guys lose mobile services?