The other hobby I'm diving back into ... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 11:51:05 pm
content: ... Model railroading. I've been working on a new layout for several months (including the design part). Here's a couple of pics of where it's at right now. There's a fair amount of electronics to the new layouts. Each locomotive has it's own digital decoder and it can be interfaced to a PC. I got the track plan checked out on the table and now I'm working on the basic underlying terrain. I got one building kit assembled and highly detailed. I also added LEDs which I plan on most of my buildings having.Anyone else into model railroading?I thought Dave had a layout in the corner of a room he had taken from somewhere but I don't know if he ever did anything with it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 12:20:39 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on August 31, 2017, 11:51:05 pmAcquire - he did....EEVblog #700 - Indiana Jones HO Scale Model Train Set

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 01:28:55 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on August 31, 2017, 11:51:05 pmEnlighten us......how ? RF ?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 01:37:58 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 01, 2017, 01:28:55 amIt's called DCC - Digital Command Control. Instead of a DC voltage to the track rails a command station sends a digital signal to the tracks which also has enough amplitude to power the motor of the engine, it's an amplified digital signal. Each engine can have a microcontroller board installed to enable this capability.https://www.nmra.org/beginners-guide-command-control-and-dcc

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:13:45 am
content: I read through that article - and while it does give a very cursory outline to the tech ... it doesn't give any meat for an EE audience!Having said that, though, ideas are buzzing around as to how I might do it......

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:50:11 am
content: Nice. It's crossed my mind to get into. I always thought it would be cool to have decorative shelves with cool backgrounds along the walls with tunnels going through different rooms of the house and stuff and just have them run all the time. It could even act as a sort of clock, where I know a train will pass by every hour or something. Could automate the heck out of it with sensors and switches and stuff.Would also be entertainment for the cat.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:29:55 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 01, 2017, 02:13:45 amThis ^

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:37:40 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 01, 2017, 03:29:55 amOh for crying out ... research DCC for model railroading of you want to learn more LOL.Google is your friend.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 04:10:18 am
content: I was hoping that someone familiar with the technology would know of some good resources and save the rest of us from such searching. One article to give a basic understanding of the mechanism (from an EE perspective) is all I was after. At least I know that there is a system that has been developed - and has some industry-wide acceptance.Certainly, if I wanted to really get into it, I would do my own digging.

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:59:22 am
content: Perhaps this has more infohttps://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.1_electrical_standards_2006.pdfhttps://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/s-92-2004-07.pdfHere are the European standards (Where DCC actually comes from)These are in German btw.http://www.miba.de/morop/nem670_d.pdfhttp://www.miba.de/morop/nem671_d.pdf

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:17:07 am
content: Please no. This is the second model train thread recently. I loved these, when I was 16. This got me into electronics, I'm quite sure. But I just dont have the space!!! Dont make me fall back and thinker with model rails again! Please!Too late. I went checking if I can fit a Z scale anywhere.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:32:18 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on August 31, 2017, 11:51:05 pmThings have moved on; you may be interested inhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Model_Railroad_Interface

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:35:27 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 01, 2017, 09:17:07 amYou could always:reduce the required area by a factor of 9 (!) by adopting T gaugeget immersed in OpenTTD, but remember to continue eatingT gauge makes it possible to do a very good scale model of the Forth Bridge:

author: little_grey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:52:26 am
content: ahh trains, my layour is still at my parents house, but plans are being forumulated to get it to my new house.still not got into the DCC, did you fit the units yourself or buy them pre-coded?i have a few ideas but in the most part it might be easier to run those ideas through an arduino or something.(thinking of running a shelf in the garage with a simple automated train running back/forth to carry parts and maybe cider about

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 11:02:36 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 01, 2017, 09:32:18 amJMRI is exactly the thing xrunner is talking about, interfacing DCC to a PC (you need some hardware of course, JMRI is just software).There are better software than JMRI thou, Traincontroller for example, but it's not free.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 12:43:19 pm
content: Quote from: Gromitt on September 01, 2017, 11:02:36 amRight, and I have the interface that can connect the DCC controller to a PC I just have to get to the point where I can set it up. I have a lot of work to do on the scenery right now.Also, there is another protocol that is coming but there isn't a lot of hardware available yet, it's called LCC - Layout Command Control.QuoteAnd no it's not addictive (see pic)The plywood board you see holds several things for the layout. There is a 12 VDC PS for various support electronics such as the Digitrax DS64s. These are mainly for controlling the turnouts from the throttle (although they have additional functions I'm not using). All the turnouts are wired back to these so they can be set closed or open according to their assigned number (in this case 1 - 17) from the throttle or a PC. The turnouts are Kato and have a solenoid that requires a short + or - voltage pulse to kick the points which comes from the DS64. They can also be programmed to hold routes, which are a series of turnout settings to configure a number of turnouts all at the same time for, well, a route.Also on the board I have a group of Microchip CL2 constant current drivers for the LEDs that will be used for street lights and buildings, and a 24 VDC PS for that system.Another unit which is by my computer right now is also going to be on the board is a Digitrax PR3. This is what interfaces the PC to the Loconet via those gray cables which I made up (6P6C connectors). All of that system connects back to the DCS-100 command station booster which generates the amplified digital signal to the tracks.But, the electronics is just a part of the hobby. I'm enjoying taking time to build the scenery right now. that's just as fun as the rest of it for me. I'll post more pics as time goes on (mainly to pull in more unsuspecting innocent bystanders)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:21:47 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on September 01, 2017, 12:43:19 pmIf you are ever on this side of the pond, you would probably likehttps://www.pendonmuseum.com/There are several layouts; I remember being gobsmacked by a picture (in Railway Modeller back in the late 60s) of a viaduct in the Dartmoor scene. When I eventually saw it at the turn of the millennium, it was better than the picture.But that's only a side attraction. The main scene has been gradually constructed since the 50s. The buildings are all faithful copies of local buildings (many including the interiors), all the figures are individually sculpted (e.g. a youngster balanced on their mother's hip), and it is fun to play "crop spotting from 500ft"The pictures on the museum website really don't do it justice; better ones are athttps://www.flickr.com/search/?text=pendon%20museumhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/vikingman/33224282336/

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 06:18:42 pm
content: Mixing model railroading with electronics and computers has been around a long time. I remember first reading about TMRC in Steven Levy's book, Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolutionhttp://tmrc.mit.edu/https://www.wired.com/2014/11/the-tech-model-railroad-club/

author: fourtytwo42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:03:23 pm
content: I have been mixing electronics and model railways (railroading) for almost as long as I can rememberI started in OO (HO) when I lived with my parents but space constraints forced me to N (much harder to get running properly, especially UK steam outline) but I recently solved a further space constraint imposed by my better half by building what I call a stacker (picture enclosed) controlled by a simple hex switch on the control panel (2nd pic) it is entirely automatic!An interesting project consuming some 1500 lines of PIC assembly code (not for the feint hearted) but may give someone short of space inspiration. 3rd pic is ful layout plan. Final pic is Riccarton junction station.Apart from the Stacker this railway is largely manually controlled, I have had fully automatic railways having many processors and individual train speed control before the advent of DCC but found the hours of debug time exceeded those of running a railwayIt all depends what you enjoy most.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on September 01, 2017, 02:50:11 amIf the cat is anything like the one my aunt had when I was a kid and playing around with HO scale trains,YOU'Dprovide the entertainment for the cat, as he watched you put rolling stock back onto the rails for him to poke and derail again the next time it went by...Beyond this comment I'm not delving much more deeply into this thread lest I reigniteTHATinterest from 40 years ago too...-Pat

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 07:54:32 pm
content: I had to give away my HO rr, when I moved into a smaller appartment. Later I saw some very small Z scale layoutshttp://www.zettzeit.ch/SKA.htmland had the idea of fitting a very small layout into a tin box I got for christmas a while ago (filled with gingerbread then).A while ago I found some great H0 videos on YT:and started a circuit to control the Z scale via an arduino PWM signal, because I liked the smooth start of the trains in the video so much (Z trains are often way too fast, which looks not very realistic in my eyes). Maybe I could play some engine sound later from a SD card that matches the speed of the train. But that's not much more than an idea at the moment.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 08:38:54 pm
content: Quote from: fourtytwo42 on September 01, 2017, 07:03:23 pmFettling is an integral part of most hobbies.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 08:55:48 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 01, 2017, 08:38:54 pmNice choice of terminology.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:56:39 pm
content: This thread is killing me reading it. I spent the 1980s and early 1990s playing with model railways. I had a relatively large OO gauge layout that was 18x2 feet that spanned the length of the garage. I made all the points and trackwork myself with SMP kits and ran lots of 1970s/1980s British diesels up and down (mainly Lima). Never finished it - got most of the track down and the scenery bulk work done and...Then came university, alcohol, cars and women and I sold it all to fund my lifestyle. By '99 it was all gone, I was living in a student squat, dating a drug dealer, driving a dodgy looking Mercedes 190E and trying to scrape together enough cash from skip diving crap to pay for my engineering textbooks and pizza and beer on tap.If I've learned anything in life, stick with the trains (or model rockets, ham radio, radio control stuff!)Back on topic, I saw DCC when it came in and it went on the "ooh that's nice, once I've done my engineering degree and landed a nice job I'll get me some of that". There was another company at the time putting NiCd batteries in OO/HO locomotives and using 433MHz RF modules and PICs to decode commands. That looked quite sexy. I reckon you could affordably DIY that now.Edit: they still exist!http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 12:31:35 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 01, 2017, 03:21:47 pmVery nice thanks.Quote from: Cubdriver on September 01, 2017, 07:05:42 pmOh don't be afraid!Quote from: daybyter on September 01, 2017, 07:54:32 pmI got to get me a Z scale going here too, just looks too cool!Quote from: bd139 on September 01, 2017, 10:56:39 pmDCC is what got me hooked again about 4 years ago. I had some N scale rolling stock from my childhood in a box and all I wanted to do was set them up on some track for display. I found a local hobby shop that had track so I went in there. The guy showed me all of the new stuff, and that's all it took to hook me back into it.Here's a traffic light I hand made from aluminum tubing, styrene, and 0603 LEDs. I made six of them. I wrote an arduino program to simulate a three way traffic stop with all the lights changing the proper way in sequence. I need to get that going again - now what did I do with the code?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 03:00:40 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on September 02, 2017, 12:31:35 amYou are evil.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 03:27:09 am
content: I had a modest HO gauge train setup, which started out with a Tri-ang set and grew from that.My layout was on a 6' x 4' piece of chipboard which made it "portable". This, and the fact I lived 4 doors down from my (primary) school meant it was a candidate for inclusion in the school's hobby display at their annual fete. I would go home with 3 other kids and we would carry it up the street to the school. I'd then set it up and guard it for the duration.When not in use, it could be stood on edge, since there was no high profile scenery - and this became a problem. As the years passed and the interest waned as other things took to the stage, the board was relegated to the garage - and one day, after a particularly nasty rain storm, water had seeped across the garage floor ... only stopped by the sponge that my train set baseboard became. I only discovered this some time later and the resulting mess was very disheartening. I had tacks used to secure the track to the board rusted in place and crumbling wood fibres everywhere. The board was tossed and the track was mostly rescued - but some of it was not looking too wonderful. Since that day, it has been packed away. It has been well over 20 years since any of the rolling stock rolled anywhere, so I would want to check things out before running anything.I would also need to redesign a layout. After it's last use, I came across some bargain track at a garage sale ... that I just couldn't pass up. It had at least 4 yard long straights plus some other pieces - and I don't knowwherethat all ended up. But I am also going to have to have a serious look at some of my original track. I did a stupid thing. Having some problems with good electrical contact with the rails, some bright spark suggested I give then a rub with some fine sandpaper. Being young and not knowing any better ... I did. This worked well - for a very short time, since I had removed the plating on the tracks and the tarnish I had to deal with before had been replaced with rust. Some things we learn the hard way.Will I ever resurrect the set? I don't know. My kids have never seen it run - and I'm not sure if they even know I have it ... and now there are grandchildren on the scene - but they are a bit young yet.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 06:11:48 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 02, 2017, 03:00:40 amYeah, huh? I think I have a box of rolling stock, locos and track kicking around somewhere, but it hasn't seen the light of day since the early 80s. At present I have far too many irons in the fire to eventhinkabout excavating it.-Pat

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 06:12:57 am
content: And that traffic light is amazing, xrunner! Nicely done.-Pat

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 06:19:53 am
content: Indeed it is. Nice work

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 12:17:14 pm
content: Great traffic light!Now you need some moving cars! (traffic...)

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2017, 01:45:07 am
content: Quote from: daybyter on September 02, 2017, 12:17:14 pmThank you.Quote from: Cubdriver on September 02, 2017, 06:11:48 amI'd love to see them - really. But if you have too many irons ...

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 10:12:09 pm
content: I'm building a kit that replicates a fueling station. The kit does have lamp posts but of course they don't actually work. I'm going to add SMD 0603 white LEDs to the lamps. They fit nicely under the lamp. Running the wires is going to be interesting, and I'm still figuring out the best way to do that.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 12:39:17 am
content: I finally got the LED lights all done for one area. Here's a low-light shot of it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 12:51:23 am
content: Looks great.That's the sort of thing that makes soldering 0402 LEDs fun to do!

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 01:19:04 am
content: Nicely done! (Both the fabrication and the photo.)-Pat

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 07:16:27 pm
content: How did you wire it. the current is low enough that just fusing some 48SWG wire into the plastic tube with solvent would work, and after a paint coat look like it is just a seam in the steel pole replica.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2017, 09:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 02, 2017, 07:16:27 pmI used 30 AWG magnet wire. It's very hard to tell it's on the plastic especially when the lights are on.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 02:16:42 pm
content: Well it's the Holiday and trains and Holiday seem to go together so here's the latest on my layout progress.

author: TassiloH
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 05:10:22 pm
content: In case you need more inspiration or ever come to northern Germany/Hamburg:http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 06:50:45 pm
content: That place is on my bucket list

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 08:57:35 pm
content: Prefer my model choo-choos to be a bit bigger - one I made years agoRuns on coal, produces lots of steam and smelly hot oil!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 09:31:16 pm
content: That’s a thing of beauty

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 09:04:41 pm
content: I've been a model railroad since before I was into electronics - there is a home 8mm movie of me running the trains under the Christmas tree when I was about 2 years old. Not by much though - one of my favorite 'toys' was a box full of wires, switches, and lights I would hook up and do stuff with.It was at least partly through my building and wiring of model railroads that I decided early on that I wanted to be an EE. The trains, and those Radio Shack x-in 1 kits.I am right now in the process of redoing my basement (it was finished by the previous owners - in horrible 70's paneling, some of it brick textured, some rock textured, and some wood) to begin construction of a decently sized double deck HO layout. I'll have about a 25x26 irregular area to work with - wish I had more, but everything else about this house was something I was looking for so I have to live with the garage eating up another 20x26 area that in a normal ranch style house would be part of the basement.In the meantime, I am designing my own turnout controllers to drive servo motors, and signal controllers that will all interface via a modified version of Bruce Chubb's CMRI system - basically a protocol for serial comm over RS-485.