Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format (solved!) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 12:35:35 pm
content: Today I wanted to buy an ebook in kindle format, and planned to read it on my Kindle PaperWhite, butwhen I clicked on "buy it now", I was presented this warning:Sorry, you we haven't found any kindle device connected to your account. This ebook requires one of the following devices:Kindle for AndroidKindle for tablet AndroidKindle for iPhoneKindle for iPod TouchKindle for iPadKindle for MacKindle for PCKindle Fire HD (1st gen)Kindle FireKindle Fire HDX 8.9''Kindle Fire HDXKindle Fire HD (2nd gen)Fire HDX 8.9 TabletFire HD 7 TabletFire HD 6 TabletFire HD 10Fire HD 8FireSo what's the point about promoting "Kindle PaperWhite" (130 euro) and "Kindle Oasis" (240 euro) if then you need a PC or a tablet to read "kindle" ebooks?!?I am really confusededit:I opened this topic to talk about the zone/region limitation.I finally purchased the same ebook from Smashwords and got it delivered by email.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 12:43:13 pm
content: QuoteAmazon UK

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 12:59:17 pm
content: Kindles have monochrome, low resolution screens with poor refresh rates which are not suited to all content. You haven't, of course, specified what book you're looking at..

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 01:02:55 pm
content: I've had this a couple of times. usually reference books. I think the ass end kindles, such as the one I own, are only suitable for rending properly flowed books rather than explicit layout pages. I use an ipad for the rest of the books. The kindle gets used for fiction mostly which it's absolutely great for.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 01:11:03 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 11, 2020, 12:59:17 pmAn ebook about operating system design. Nothing that requires high resolution of high refresh rates!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 01:15:02 pm
content: Well, again, it's a low resolution, slow refresh device. It's designed for a simple linear, front to back reading of plain text. Advanced formatting, fixed layouts, images, constantly returning and referencing pages are things you can't do well on these devices.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 01:18:29 pm
content: Still amazing little device though. Chuck it in your bag, turn your phone off and read a book undisturbed without having to lug a 2 inch thick chunk of tree with you. Has made hiking trip breaks more interesting.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 02:15:45 pm
content: In the end, I bought the content as pdf, I sent it to my kind by email at Amazon, and this made it uploaded for free to my PaperWhite device.How toSend documents to your Kindleas an email attachment.It's still a "pdf" file, but it works perfectly, and even notes and underlining work perfectly.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 02:25:50 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 11, 2020, 01:18:29 pmI don't like reading on my laptop or phone. That's why I am planning to invest 240 euro in a "Kindle Oasis". My old PaperWhite is the second gen, and it's not water proof like the latest gen. I tried the Oasis and its screen is much more comfortable thank to the auto brightness and LTE support.These things actually make the difference when you want to read outdoor or indoor undisturbed.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 02:32:57 pm
content: Yeah they’re interesting for sure but I’m too much of a cheap ass. I’ve got the basic one bought in Feb I think it was but without ads. This replaced my ancient one.I’ve just worked my way through the expanse series of books on it. Probably wouldn’t have done it otherwise. Throughly enjoyed it as a device.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:10:22 pm
content: I have a cheap £50 Fire kindle, seems to read everything, runs Android / Fire OS, 7" or something, had it a number of years now, at least it lasts longer than the Firestick!

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:35:15 pm
content: The issue with Kindle is you don't really own anything. It's all cloud based.So when you buy it it will be tied to your account and you will need to login with the device. So it's probably saying that there is no device linked with the account. You never get a file that you can just save and view locally. At least I think that's how it works?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:48:09 pm
content: You can use it with Calibre and load other ebooks onto it as well. I think you can rip the books off it but I haven't tried. You do have to sign in AFAIK at activation time.The main reason I bought one is I want the cloud convenience and I don't mind paying for it. If you spend on a book it's no different to buying a theatre/cinema ticket. But you can watch it as many times as you want until the theatre/cinema burns down at least.If Amazon pull it, I'll charge back them for every fucking transaction I made

author: Connecteur
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:53:25 pm
content: If you like being jerked around by virtual monopolies, Kindle is for you.I prefer open sources.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:55:48 pm
content: I'm at less of a financial loss then when I was buying physical books. They are cheaper and easier to get rid of.Open would be ideal but the interests of the open source community always miss the mark on quality which I value.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 04:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: Connecteur on August 11, 2020, 03:53:25 pmAnd your open-source e-ink reader and DRM-free respository of hundreds of thousands of titles is where?For that matter, where are your open source books? Original sources, layouts, font specs, cover graphics?

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 04:51:07 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 11, 2020, 03:35:15 pmFiles (ebook and pdf) are on the cloud but there is a copy of these files on the flash memory of my Kindle PaperWhite, and if I connect my Kindle to a computer via USB, I can copy them like if was a common pendrive.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 06:55:48 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on August 11, 2020, 04:51:07 pmThey are, of course, encrypted.. Which I'm sure has been broken a few times now.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 11:46:53 pm
content: Anyone complaining that an e-ink Kindle has "poor refresh rate" etc, is basically missing the point - a paperback also has "poor refresh rate" - wanna know why? It doesn't need one. It's like complaining "This twig is a terrible bicycle" - yeah... it's a twig, it's all you need to light a fire, not wheels and a chain.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 11:52:27 pm
content: Quote from: eti on August 11, 2020, 11:46:53 pmDid it sound like I was complaning?They have a very slow refresh - if you want to flick between pages in a reference book, that's a big problem. Hence the unsupported format for such titles.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 11:56:38 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 11, 2020, 11:52:27 pmI wouldn't think it's a "big problem", it's a fraction of a second, around the same time it takes to flip a PHYSICAL page. People are far too spoilt "oh no, it's taking 0.000001 femptoseconds too long for my cheeseburger to arrive - I'M OFF!" lol

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:05:06 am
content: Quote from: eti on August 11, 2020, 11:56:38 pmWell, being on my third Kindle and also having bookshelves full of dead wood.. I know it's a lot less convenient than a real book when you're flicking through looking for something specific.The Kindle suits a particular task. Reference books are not it.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 01:32:44 am
content: I buy nearly all my light reading stuff from Amazon for use on a Nook ereader (soon to be replaced with a more upmarket brand, but not Kindle). Exceptions are reference books where being able to rifle through to quickly find a page is much simpler with a real book.The process is: buy on Amazon, download to Kindle for PC, open with Calibre, send to ereader. Bosh - I have bother the encrypted Kindle version and the unencrypted epub (or whatever is the format du jour), so I can stuff 'em on whatever ereader takes a passing fancy. First time I get a Kindle book that can't be decrypted is the last time I buy on Amazon...

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:57:51 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 11, 2020, 06:55:48 pmPdf are not encrypted, so as mostly of my paid epub files. I bought from Amazon a lot of ebook tales written by Philip K. Dick, I cannot read them on my computer because I haven't installed an application, but by opening files via usb the PaperWhite works as if it was a pen stick and with a text editor I see readable strings of text.If they were encrypted, I should not read anything that looks like human sentences.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 11:04:10 am
content: What makes me very puzzled is that when you want to buy an ebook, and you are just so lucky to have found it available for your kindle device (Kindle, Kindle PaperWhite, KindleOasis), well ... you click on "buy it now" and Amazon returns you nothing but a weird errorQuoteWhat? Why?The problem seems related to "rights", and especially "eBook rights" that can be messy with the country you have registered your Amazon account. I am not sure, but it has just happened for reasons incomprehensible to me, and wondering "ok, and now how can in change my country on Amazon so I can give them my money and get the content I am looking for ?",thistrick seems to be the workaround.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 06:34:31 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on August 12, 2020, 10:57:51 amUnless policies have changed, Kindle titles delivered by Amazon are encrypted unless the publisher/author opts out of it. I can't see the average publisher ever even considering the idea of not having DRM..

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:48:38 pm
content: I was not sure if my ebooks were DRM protected or DRM free, and I searched the word such as "Adobe", "Adept" or "DRM" or "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the product description on the details page.And found that all my ebooks do report "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited", thus they are DRM free, and this means a lot of purchases are DRM free by default, in spite of what most people think.Probably buying a DRM-protected ebook has more chance to happen with Kobo, Nook, Google play ebooks.edit: p.s.foundthistool as workaround.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:52:26 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on August 12, 2020, 07:48:38 pmThat is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:57:42 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 12, 2020, 07:52:26 pmIt means it's not DRM protected. Otherwise how could you open it form different and unregistered devices?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 08:14:42 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on August 12, 2020, 07:57:42 pmYou uh, don't, when you buy a typical ebook from Amazon. Again, DRM. I just grabbed a random one - very much encrypted, have to download for the specific target device.I don't know about your particular example (as I've never seen that string on Amazon and you don't... give.. links..), but again, titles sold on the Kindle store typically employ DRM, and being allowed to use multiple devices to view a title does not imply no DRM is in use.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 09:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 12, 2020, 07:52:26 pmActually you can do this. I share my kindle library with my eldest. No one else has a kindle in the house so I don’t know how far you can stretch that.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 09:57:52 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 12, 2020, 09:52:40 pmThere is a sharing function which I'm sure you're referring to, but just copying the file straight over shouldn't work.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:01:15 pm
content: Well it turns out its a piece of piss anyway.Calibre plug-inhttps://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/drm-removal-tools-for-ebooks/Locks only keep honest people honest.

author: Daixiwen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 07:08:36 am
content: Calibre is also great to keep a copy of all your ebooks, and convert from one format to the other.I keep a copy of all my ebooks with the DRM removed just in case Amazon would decide one day that I wouldn't be allowed to read them any more.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 07:38:34 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 12, 2020, 10:01:15 pmDRM looks more a profit-making strategy for large corporations like Amazon who can use it to restrict competition. It’s well known by this point that DRM does not prevent digital piracy, the argument usually made for it. What it does is prevent book buyers from moving their files across reading platforms.However, I am really satisfied with Amazon because my ebooks are "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" at least inside the Amazon ecosystem.Probably they have some other restrictions, but for instance I have never tried to print files or to modify the cover image; I don't care these things, I am more interested in sharing underlined text, notes, and comments on my devices, I can do it so I am really happy with my ebooks.I am not against the digital rights management as at least DRM acts as a deterrent to piracy, the problem I have is against country/region restriction because I cannot buy an ebook without telling Amazon a lie.Why should I have to tell Amazon that I live in the US to buy a book which otherwise I couldn't buy in my region? It's also annoying because you have to edit your account and this may affect your physical orders.You can find an .epub online, which is the common ebook -without region restriction- format, but the Kindle can't read it "natively". That's okay; you can convert .epub files to Mobi files for the Kindle to read, but there is a third solution!You may purchase MOBI files directly from publishers and "sideload them onto your Kindle" via Amazon registered email. For instance,Smashwordsdoes not encrypt its ebooks neither apply any region restriction

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 07:59:40 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 11, 2020, 01:15:02 pmDisagree. Most Kindles feature ~600-800MHz ARM processors running Linux, and easily have the bandwidth to do basic e-book functions like you describe.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 12:00:56 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 13, 2020, 07:59:40 amIt's not the processor, it's the screen and and speed of the UI..I've used a Kindle for over 8 years, I'm pretty familiar with how practical they are for different content.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 05:04:48 pm
content: I've also got one of the original Kindles... it was a 3rd generation Kindle Keyboard with 3G made circa 2010, so it's now 10 years old. Still working a charm.Best part is the 3G lets you connect to cellular networks anywhere in the world for free. It has an experimental web browser so you can check email, browse websites (although very crudely and slowly). However, it is FREE and works in places without any WiFi hotspots, say in the middle of a tropical beach I can check email for free, look at news sites, view maps. I don't know how they do that but Amazon must pick up the tab.I mostly load in PDF files, and I can convert PDF using many Linux utilities to a fraction of the size depending on what you are planning to do with them (ebook, print, etc).

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 07:09:45 pm
content: E-ink has advanced alot over the years, the lastest and greatest displays, even black and white, are way faster than the early ones. They are even developing high-speed (video capable) full-color displays (there's videos on those).Early e-ink displays took like 1-2 seconds to refresh...so don't complain about it being slow.EDIT: unless you read like this

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2020, 08:14:23 am
content: Quote from: 0db on August 12, 2020, 07:57:42 pmI'm with Monkeh here. When Amazon states: "simultaneous device usage: unlimited", I believe that means that you can use it on an unlimited number ofdevices you own, or have registered to your account. 0dB -- when you state that it works on "unregistered devices", have you actually tried that, or tried giving a copy of your e-books to someone else?(How do you obtain an "unregistered device" in the Kindle system anyway? Aren't they always pre-registered to your account when you buy a device?)

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2020, 10:41:41 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 15, 2020, 08:14:23 amWhen you buy a kindle from Amazon it doesn't come "pre-registered". You have to assign it a "name" and you have to register it to your Amazon account as "kindle device". You can have more than one device, but you also have to specify if it's "personal" or "family".If you purchase a new Kindle and transfer ebooks from computer to it, well ... technically it's "unregistered", thus it will refuse to open DRM protected ebooks, but if you transfer files from the computer and the device it's able to open them ... well, they are for sure DRM-free.Amazon also allows to share ebooks with your significant other.Two options are possible:With "Family" Amazon allows two adults in the same family to share the ebooks they buy with one another. Only two adults, and you must be in the same family.With "Personal", you can loan out a Kindle ebook that you purchased from the Amazon Kindle store with a friend. It's a restricted option, but if ‘Loan this title’ is on the list, you’re in business as you can click Loan this title, and doing so will take you to a page that lets you send the book to the friend of your choosing, via their email address. Your Kindle ebooks can be lent out for a 14-day period, during you won’t have access to the title yourself—just like if you’d lent a book to a pal from the shelf in your living room.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2020, 11:42:10 am
content: Quote from: 0db on August 15, 2020, 10:41:41 amHmm, maybe it's handled differently in different parts of the world, or has changed over time. I am pretty sure the Kindles we got were pre-registered, but that was several years ago.QuoteIf there were no DRM, as you claimed earlier, you would be able to give copies of your ebooks toanyone, without Amazon having to "allow" anything. So there clearly is DRM protection on the Kindle ebooks, right?

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2020, 12:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 15, 2020, 11:42:10 amRegistered to whom? And with which device-name? And what if you want to purchase a Kindle to give someone a gift?To me "pre-registering" doesn't make any sense, and it's not what I received from Amazon with my last two KindlePaperWhite purchases, of which, one of them was actually a gift for a friend.Quote from: ebastler on August 15, 2020, 11:42:10 amI clearly wrote it:mostly of my ebook comealready DRM unprotectedbecause I can copy them from my kindle to my computer and read them without any problem as well as I can share them, and this also applies to a brand new not yet registered Kindle device.Then I offered some alternatives and possibilities about sharing ebooks:(DRM-free) -> ePubor/Calibre or similar to remove the DRM protection::not exactly "legal"(DRM-free) -> attach a pdf file to an email, send it to your Kindle email address and it will be available on your Kindle::perfectly legal(DRM-free) -> buy from Smashwords and get DRM-free MOBI files directly from publishers or authors::perfectly legal(DRM-free) -> buy an ePub from publishers or authors, then convert .epub into .mobi via Calibre for the Kindle to read::perfectly legal(DRM-protected) -> Amazon Family or Loan eBooks to a friend::perfectly legalI opened this topic to talk about the zone/region limitation (solved thanks to Smashwords).Not about DRMs

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2020, 12:42:40 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on August 15, 2020, 12:30:37 pmPre-registered to the same account which was used to buy the device.I didn't say that you cannot change the name, or change the registration to another account. I just stated that -- in my experience, which may be incomplete or outdated -- there is no such thing as an "unregistered" Kindle.QuoteAnd I challenged that conclusion, because (a) the Kinde reader on your computer would be connected to the same user account under which the ebook was bought, and (b) I didn't think there is a "not yet registered" Kindle device, as discussed above.QuoteBut you don't "own" the thread in a way where you could limit which topics get discussed.And you did talk about DRM, didn't you?