Freezer spray and air dusters - why the sudden extortionate price increase? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 02:02:17 pm
content: I've not had to buy any for a while but now I need some I'm shocked at the fearsome price hike. What happened? I see there are much cheaper versions available but they are apparently very flammable so they sound relatively dangerous. Or aren't they that bad?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 02:11:49 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 01, 2019, 02:02:17 pmMaybe it has to do with the gasses being not too great for the environment.

author: SolderSucker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 02:30:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 01, 2019, 02:11:49 pmFair enough, so are the cheaper alternatives not only bad for the environment but also dangerously flammable?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 03:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: SolderSucker on November 01, 2019, 02:30:34 pmafaict the new non-flammable option is HFO-1234ze which has a global warming potential of 6. The old was R-134a, also used to be common in refrigerators, with a global warming potential of 1430

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 08:23:48 pm
content: Can you give some numbers? $3.50 each seems cheap enough to me:https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00DZYEXPQ/ref=olp_twister_child?ie=UTF8&mv_size_name=2Here in Canada its about $10 for a can and of course they price the "cold spray" twice as much as the duster, which is normal.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 08:55:15 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 01, 2019, 08:23:48 pmPut the duster upside down and it cools as well.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 10:26:44 pm
content: Several years ago I bought a DataVac Electric Duster, it's paid for itself many times over.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 10:43:03 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on November 01, 2019, 08:55:15 pmYes, its an easy extra $10 profit for them for people who don't know or don't care.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 11:17:18 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 01, 2019, 03:04:16 pmOr CO2 with a GWP of 1. The most eco friendly duster is air compressed with a bicycle pump, for a GWP of 0.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 07:58:23 pm
content: You can blame the enviro-hippies...134a is almost completely replaced with 152a, but I guess they're trying to get rid of the latter too. Fortunately, 152a is still available and people continue to recharge their AC and fridges with it.

author: Marck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 10:54:14 pm
content: I worked with a refrigeration mechanic once who had an interesting theory about why air conditioners where changing from R22 to R410a. His idea was that the patent on R22 was expiring so the drive to 410a was driven by the patent owners to maximise profits. So if you firmly strap on your tin foil hat perhaps that could be part of the reason behind the changes?M

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 11:03:03 pm
content: Quote from: Marck on November 02, 2019, 10:54:14 pmr22 is ozone depleting, r410a is not

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 11:07:41 pm
content: Tin foil hat is unnecessary. Global warming is a business in itself.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 11:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 02, 2019, 11:03:03 pmFortunately measures like these are proving to be effective as the ozone layer is recovering. It shows that we actually can tackle problems that seem too big for individuals or even countries to fix.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 03:41:57 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 02, 2019, 11:07:41 pmYep. More than 20 thousand are coming to Madrid next december (climate summit). Oh, for God's sake, if there's only 195 countries in the world. A big bussiness indeed. You and me pay it all. Oh dear, oh dear.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 03:51:37 am
content: Quote from: Marck on November 02, 2019, 10:54:14 pmR410a is a mix of R32 and R125, the latter substantially increases the GWP. It turns out R32 by itself is a better refrigerant than R410a. I think the R125 was actually added to raise the GWP so that once the patent runs out, they have an excuse to ban it. (It also turns out that R32 will work in a R410a system with only minor tweaks.)

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 01:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 03, 2019, 03:51:37 amI believe R32 is flammable, and R125 has been used as fire suppressant

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 03:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on November 03, 2019, 01:00:06 pmExcept R1234yf is also flammable and there doesn't seem to be problems using it by itself.It's also worth mentioning that the oils mixed in with the refrigerant make all refrigerants flammable.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 07:57:17 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 03, 2019, 03:42:36 pmNot really, perfluorocarbons will extinguish any fire that forms when you get a small leak as it will just displace the oxygen. And if you have a big leak that dumps the entire content of your cooling system into your car, the oil will separate from the gaseous refrigerant and it won't ignite either. The only refrigerants that are flammable are those were not all hydrogen atoms are substituted by halogens.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 02:56:18 am
content: To be fair, that stuff is not so great for the environment not to mention it's a consumable so not so great on the wallet eithe, it's best to look at alternatives. For actual dusting then use an air compressor. For freeze testing components, suppose a freezer could work. If you want to target it I guess some kind of air hose that sucks air from a freezer at high velocity? Either way anything beats pumping ozone depleting and/or greenhouse gases in the air.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 03:06:08 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on November 04, 2019, 02:56:18 amYou'll never get anywhere near the heat transfer you get from liquid flooding the component and undergoing phase change.The reason fluorocarbons are used are the relatively low pressure and non-flammability. You can use hydrocarbons and get the same pressure characteristics and no flammability, or CO2 for no flammability with huge pressure differences.Pressure becomes relevant when you want to put it into an affordable and manageable can.I use r134a and Butane. If I can work on the device outside and it has no ignition sources I use Butane. It's cheap. Otherwise I still use r134a.