Should I continue for a Masters degree? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2012, 11:20:25 pm
content: Let me introduce myself first. I am Hans, 22, freshly graduated bachelor EE student in the Netherlands. I graduated Bachelor with no problems; my average grade is about 8.5, so I expect the wank title "Cum Laude" to be present (tomorrow I get the official paper), In my internships I did a broad range of things, low power DC analyzer (analog, DSP), some embedded development on RTK-DGPS guided Farm Tractors (and for those who listen the amphour; luckily I didn't have to drive them!). My final work involved a high power lightsource for medical imaging, more precisely, cancer removal surgery (power, some optics, FPGA's). I got a 9 out of 10 for this final work.I now face the choice of going to market or do some more personal R&D. Purely from my grades it may be easy. However, somehow the choice isn't that easy for me.First off, next year I basically expect to be on a pause due to some medical procedures. Takes about a year, and it's like a cycle of 3-months sick, 3-months 'semi-OK'. This goes twice. So it's hard for me to sign up for any job in the upcoming year, because who hires someone that he knows will be sick 50% of the time?After this year I basically have to make a final choice: study or work. It gives a lot of time to think. If I would go to study, I could occupy the mind next year with some pre-studying or something. However, I am not quite sure what to choose.I wouldn't be considering a master if I hated studying. I actually feel I haven't been challenged yet, but it would be nicer if it also brings something more than a piece of framed paper .In my situation a master takes 2,5 years and ~30k euro here. That's quite a long time and a big chunk of money. Some say that a Master student doesn't earn anything more than a Bachelor student. I don't know if this is true, or even relevant, but I personally believe it will pay it self back after a while (maybe not initially). Of course it's nice if it did.The issue I find myself having is, is a master really useful for me to get? Am I too broadly orientated? I basically know some stuff about of a lot of things as I mentioned. I have always considered myself to be a software guy before I started Electrical Engineering. In a gray past I used to develop my own webapplications and websites in PHP. Go figure.Since I started electronics I got involved in the hobby, and I do like doing a broad range of stuff (Dave describes it as an one man band, analog & digital design, firmware, desktop software). All my internships I did were at really small companies (often <10 people). I guess being all-round is quite useful there because teams are so small. Due to medical reasons I haven't been able to 'try out' a personal experience at a larger organisation, mainly because there aren't here a lot (farm tractors should describe the scenery out of town) and I am not very mobile.If I'd do anything at master level, my first choice would be to do a major in Telecommunications as that fascinates me the most. DSP or embedded systems is quite interesting too, it would be my second choice.It isn't really the case that I need a master, like for chip design you just don't see a bit off at a bachelor degree so you need to do a master.I wonder if it's really useful to go for a Master? Or would I be wasting my time? What would you do?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2012, 11:33:43 pm
content: That really depends upon your country and it's engineering culture toward post graduate studies. Of that I have no idea.Here in Australia, academic qualifications are quickly forgotten once you have industry experience.But I suspect that a masters would never be a "waste of time"Why not spend the next year working on your own project(s) and see what happens? Take time off whenever you like, and work on whatever interests you.Dave.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2012, 11:43:16 pm
content: I was already planning some projects indeed, like some digital test equipment (curve tracers, component analysers, LCR meters etc.). I don't have much of a lab set up here (barely got a PSU) as I could do most at school. Luckily I have some very nice classmates willing to lend out stuffI recall a bit about the qualifications you just said. I wonder if people in or around the Netherlands knows more about those kind of situations. As I said, it's a bit sad I was unable to explore a bit at a bigger company. Where I have been working it were all Bachelor engineers and I never saw any practical advantage or disadvantages from getting an extra degree.Of course it's also a bit about the personal development, but I suspect you also do that at a work environment.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 12:52:46 am
content: Dave said exactly what I was going to say: the benefits to your employment opportunities depend on the local culture where you live.In Britain for example (I'm British), there may be a little benefit to a Masters in engineering early in your career, but after a while your work experience carries more weight and the academic qualifications become less important. As far as I can tell the situation is similar in America.However, in countries like Germany or France it may be a little different? Is the Netherlands like Germany in this respect? I know that in Germany a PhD is reflected in how one is addressed "Herr Dr So-and-so" and conveys status, whereas in the USA it is considered uncool to title oneself as "Dr Smith" rather than "Joe Smith, PhD".In any event it won't ever harm your career to get the highest academic qualification you can aspire to, and it may even have unexpected benefits (for example a PhD will get you easy access to a Green Card in America should you ever want to migrate).You will note I've mentioned PhD more than once. If you can get a PhD, go for that. Don't spend time and money on a Masters.What you ultimately do depends on what you enjoy. Try to do what you will find fulfilling.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 01:00:50 am
content: Given the medical issues and expense of a Masters, it might be a good idea to hold off just now. As Dave said, work on projects and see what happens. Once you've healed up, then you can either hunt for employment or continue with your education.In one sense, the MS could actually hurt you a bit. Not just financially in terms of increased debt (assuming loans will be required), but in terms of reduced job experience compared to other applicants.As others have said, this would vary from country to country though, and a MS may carry more weight where you live.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 01:07:13 am
content: Quote from: IanB on July 05, 2012, 12:52:46 amI would tend to agree.Masters seems to be this wishy-washy sort of intermediate thing that really doesn't seem to gain you much respect in most places above a regular degree.The PhD is really the next big jump up in "status".Dave.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 03:58:08 am
content: I'm in high school, but don't discredit me.I've talked to a lot of EE students, engineers, and professors. The thing I've deduced is: Industry experience is key. As I'm sure you already know, college/university will teach you how to think like an engineer and give you general knowledge on your specific major...but in the long run, when you are done with your studies, you are still relatively clueless. There's only so much a college education can provide, as you know.The graduate students I've talked to said they are doing it because they want to. They are genuinely interested in learning more advanced stuff because they have big aspirations. Two of the kids I talked to...(well big kids, they were like 23), said they wanted to work at Intel. It's not that they didn't think they could a job, but they wanted to go farther or had a specific interest.The professors I talked to said there is plenty of jobs for new grads with BSEEs. Pretty much what it came down to is: Get a job. Get experience. That's what's really going to get you places. Even if it's not the best job, like a technician or kind of weaksauce "engineer" who might just file some papers, experience is what you need. Once you have experience, you are much better candidate for a "real" engineering job.Again, this is what I've kind of learned in my explorations, because I've inquired the same thing. A lot of the guys who were talking to me were all like "Yeah I plan on getting a Phd or yeah I'm working on my Masters"...and I was kind of like "Well what if I just had a BS...? Some of them gave me funny looks, but the more down-to-earth ones said that the whole degree thing is kind of bogus. Hell, there's been tons of people in history who have had no college degrees and were some of the greatest scientists and engineers on the planet.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 05:56:42 am
content: i tend to agree with bored@work on this one.But i have another piece of advice : why would you do it ?For the fame ? sadly , there is noneFor the change to 'work for intel' ( like fenderbender said ) ? good luck... if you're not in the top 20 of the world students every year you ain't even going to get an interview...The only right answer is 'because i want to specialize and learn more about a specific field' and that is a perfectly viable motive.But, keep in mind, that this still does NOT equal industry experience .... I have seen many masters and phd's ending up sitting at a desk shuffling papers. And they loved it , so nothing wrong with that. The question is : is that your ambition ? or do you want to do hands - on things ? in that case industry experience is much more important.PHD is the fasttrack to management in the industry.So it all boils down to the big question 'what do i want to do in life'.If the answer is 'make lot's of money' then you are in the wrong career. Should have been born to either rich parents , become a famous popsinger or moviestar ...If the answer is 'shuffling paperwork and 'managing' project without a chance of ever dealing with the technical details' then PhD is the answer. I have a very good friend who has a PhD and got sick and tired of his super job in the comapny he worked for. he complained that all they let him do was sit in endless meetings, draft project timelines , and decide on tough technical issues without even getting the chance to go in a lab and check some stuff out for himself. So he quit. He now is a tenured professor in microelectronics and does the practicum (the part where the students actually have to build a chip inclusing the layout part and testing it on a board when it is fabbed. He has way more fun because he can sit in a lab 80% of his time tinkering with components and guiding students in their practical work. If you are branded with the PhD logo then in the industry you are fasttracked to manager. Your only hope is to join a research institute like CERN or NASA or LLL ( Lawrence Livermore labs ) or a fundamental research like Philips used to have( note the 'used' ) in eindhoven ...But that brings us back to the 'lots' of money' part. Yes, you wil have lots of fun and be alowerd to tinker with anything your heart desires but you will barely scrape by. it's not stellar in those sorts of institutions.If the answer is : i want to 'make' things then it becomes difficult... You are better off with a bachelor or masters and get experience 'doing' stuff in this case.there is no clear-cut answer. part of things is also luck and perseverence. Keep your eyes peeled for opportunities to learn. Don't diss a job , if you can learn something from it, it makes you more attractive later on.Very few people roll out of school into a top design job at intel ... like fenderbender's friends are eyeballing ... and those that can pull it off are 90% of indian or chinese descent...there was the national science contest this year ( coincidentally sponsored by intel ) .. just take a look at the list of names of entrants and winners. They are 90% non-us names. they may have been born in the Us but their parents weren't. The west is slipping ... fast ... we are no longe rmotivated to learn. it has become and 'entitlementocracy'. the impulse to build a better life is no longer there. We already have all the crap we want becasue we can buy stuff on credit. who needs money anyway if you can borrow from the future. gimme gimme gimme.When i talk to my indian collegues it is invariably the same strory . they grew up in a little village, their parenst went through hardship and scraped enough money together so they could go to a good school and they worked hard.. very hard.. if i see how those people 'drill' their kids. Especially asians. The newspapers are full of stories of kids that get thrown on the street becasue they had an A amongst all A+ on their report card. Their parents DEMAND they come home with an all a+ report card. Same for indian families. There's no hanging in front of the xbox or tv for 4 hours a day. It's homework , music class , a scheduled 30 minute play time, dinner and back to studying. no hanging around with the 'white trash' at the street entrance. On weekends it more studying and any free time is used for cultural events or museum or whatever else that is another 'learning experience'.We're going to get trampled soon...right what was this topic about again .. i seem to have wandered of in another 'dark cloud / thunderstorm ' mood... maybe it is time for my dosage of prozac / zoloft or whatever is 'in' these days.%

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 07:37:54 am
content: Quote from: hans on July 04, 2012, 11:20:25 pmWhat? 30k and 2.5 years?I live in Belgium, it costed me 1 year (9 months), 500 euro.Most universities now propose 2 years (18 months), so 1k euro.If you don't want a degree as cum laude etc, you can easily combine it with a 10-hr-week job.I would advise you to do it.You will be wasting much of your time, but when you don't, the others with a master, will set you back later on.There is unfortunately still a huge difference between a master job and a non-master job.Companies are often too lazy or bold to pick up the good non-masters.Taking into account all the efforts to prove you are "surely as good as" a master, then hearing the oversimplified generalisations about non-masters, you will waste time on that too. Over your life propably more than the study.When you see that less talented study collegues can do it, be sure that later on, theycanbecome your boss, theycanhave positions that influence your work heavily. Do everything to avoid that..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 08:12:52 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 05, 2012, 04:22:52 amIf you have a years work experience on your own project that they like, they might not give a rats about that.Dave.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 08:35:48 am
content: Thanks for all the replies, didn't expect so many by now!In general I either should go for a PhD or don't bother. Unfortunately you need a master for a PhD. I don't really have aspirations for a PhD (at this moment).I said that a master takes 2,5 years + 30k money. Because I did a Universityof Applied SciencesBachelor, I need 0,5 year extra to get to a normal University Bachelor level (maths point of view). The Master itself costs 2 year.All (technical) universities are180km+ away from here. I live in a quiet part of the Netherlands. There are 2 universities of applied sciences around here; 1 closely (40km) that has been all in the news for diploma fraud for bachelor education like 'leisure management' (right, your own leisure?). The reputation of that school has been quite damaged, basically if your paper says 'InHolland' it has decreased in value already.1 other is 80km awayand is/was one of the best in the Netherlands for many years in succession so I went there. Travel was ~4 hours everyday with public transport. I learned one thing from that: it's not very practical and should get a room.So the 30k money is estimated at an expense of 10k per year on college fee, room, live costs and other things. I believe I can get 1 year of scholarship, that's included as well.I don't think there aren't many funds I can get for my medical situation. Last december the decision was made I would first finish school and then do the medical things. It could be viceversa and I could get some compensation for the 'wasted years' of my study. But honestly I wasn't waiting for a school and intensive medical trajects at the same time. And of course, it's only a compensation, so it doesn't gain anything (only a lot of trouble to do all the crap paperwork for like 3 or 4 different institutions you have to explain)I know that the 1 year gap has to be explained (and also filled up for myself, I can't sit 1 year doing nothing, that's silly). If I was at school it was easier of course. I guess explaining I've been working on personal projects DUE to medical reasons, it may be acceptable.The explanations seeked by Bored@Work not all seem to make sense for my situation. Maybe I should explain it's a medical surgery to both legs, which had to be done at some time otherwise they wear out. So world traveling is not very plausable for me.I consider working part-time at the place I mentioned with GPS systems . Although it's a farming environment the people are very good, I've done flexible work before (embedded engineer as a saturday job) and they occasionally have some nice projects (ARM Cortex m3 embedded stuff, some power electronics). I can maybe do some of this at home too. Atleast I can say I am 'embedded engineer' for the time. I haven't done any step in this, so I don't know if they are interested in that.The reason a master would interest me is extra specialization on communication technology or signal conditioning and processing you don't see much of at the education I got. Our telecommunications education consists of 1 college and 1 project. The college basically told you what the difference between AM & FM modulation is. Everyone passed the test because the answers were identical to last year tests, only shuffled around.The project was a choice and most people did transmitting audio via IR. Not meaning to sound negative, but that's basically class D modulation transmitted over air and then re filtered to audio. Most people picked up an Agilent AWG , 100kHz triangle, comperator and a huge array of IR LED's. The other side was an IR phototransistor, a low-pass filter and a phone jack (microphone output).We (3 others) made a FM stereo coder, with DSB modulator, mixers, filters, oscillators etc. Worked a treat, and I really liked the project more than any other.. But in general, we don't do anything else with telecommunications.Other projects were rather boring.. something with PLC's, that bored me so much personally added a synchronized desktop and web interface to the project , because I found making that more interesting than doing the very confusing ladder shit.I expect the master more for personal development, some more in depth theoretical knowledge (if that's of any use at all) and specialization in area's that interest me the most. I do have the feeling that people with a master diploma overclimb bachelors more easily because they already proven themselves (sort a way). For me it's still a hard choice; all internships I worked at told me they were very happy with my results and wondered why I wasn't already at a master level education.So I am still not sure what is better to do. I do know that next year is quite important to get fulled up, so there is always a project to jump back on and say "I did that".

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 01:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: hans on July 05, 2012, 08:35:48 amAs an interviewer, I never ask that, none of my business. I don't care. All I care about is can you do the job, and do I like you.I have taken quite some time off in the past just bumbing around, or working on my own business at the time (which is just a footnote in my resume really), and have never been asked about the gaps.QuoteDefinitely!QuoteSounds like the masters is bit more respected where you are, and it sounds like you really want to do it.So I say if you can afford to do it, go for it, it's unlikley you'll regret it once you have it.But either option is fine really.Dave.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 02:04:56 pm
content: Hi!If you like to do hands-on the next 40 years then stay with the bachelor degree. But if you like to join the management fast track go for the master and/or PhD. Regarding wages, you'll earn a little bit more with a masters degree working for a large company. Over here we have even some more fun with the new bachelor/master degrees vs. the well established Dipl. Ing. Some companies dislike the new degrees (too school-ish).Cheersmadires

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 02:56:49 pm
content: As someone who has been in the same boat. I would highly suggest working on a Masters degree part time. Work on the masters degree while also knocking out some certifications (if applicable in your country) and some side projects while job searching. The job search can be really long (it took me nearly a year) and if you've taken classes and worked on projects during that time then it's a big plus to your resume.Also, many employers not only encourage but may be willing to offer tuition reimbursement to finish your degree while employed.Good luck!!

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 04:22:11 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 05, 2012, 01:51:21 pmI guess showing of some nice projects is worth more than a gap of 1 year. I also guess it depends whether you talk to the engineers or managers at a job interview..QuoteI think I can do a masters (like passing tests) and I have a rough idea what I want to do. My question was whether it's worth the extra effort, trouble, and an advantage to specialize in 1 area. Based on what madires said, I am not really the management type of guy. I am fine doing project management as a one man band (well I guess most interns are). I can't think about doing this full time though just yet. I like the engineering, design and 'hands-on' stuff the most.Based on that, a Bachelor would be sufficient. I got the paper today.. the wank title is just a little stamp on the back of the paper.. Jolly.@Pack34; Parttime is possible, it takes like 4 to 5 years. I know someone who does that (back from the GPS Company), he is doing a parttime Masters study. He can only just do the travel with public transport from his place. After my internship we both worked at saturday writing firmware. He told me he works 3 days (including saturday to pay the bills) and does 3 days college. It basically eats all his spare time; he told me he is busy with college at home and during travelling. Seeing that I rather focus on a fulltime study.Affording it is a matter of getting a loan from family or bank. I think it will pay back in the end, either way.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 04:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: hans on July 05, 2012, 04:22:11 pmIt all depends on what works best for you. I tried to do it full bore but a graduate level degree issubstantiallymore difficult than an undergrad and I've personally found that doing a mixed bag of work and college worked better. I'm not that young anymore and can't pull the all nighters like I used to. I guess my words of advice would be to stay flexible. Take the path that makes most sense to you while giving yourself an "out" to try another route.Also, you may want to ask yourself how would a master's degree help you? Do you need one in order to pursue the job that you want?

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2012, 05:42:28 pm
content: My situation is somewhat complimentary to yours; I have a diploma in electrical engineering (haven't finished my fourth year yet for the degree) but I do have a job in the field. However, I am only getting paid $19/hour and I'm pretty well maxed out in terms of promotions without that degree. I'm not sure if it applies as much to a Masters degree, but you may just find that it opens doors for you that were once sealed shut. You cannot be too well educated

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2012, 04:38:16 am
content: Netto or bruto ? Us or europe ?

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2012, 07:07:37 am
content: Quote from: hans on July 05, 2012, 08:35:48 amIt WILL be acceptable. If you show up to the interview with a case full of boards you did both for your previous work and what you did of your own initiative (remember to put some photos of them in your cover letter), and walk away without an offer on the spot that company is not worth going to anyway.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2012, 10:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: Pack34 on July 05, 2012, 04:44:33 pmPartially that was a question I asked you guys, whether it has any advantage to get a master over 3 years industry experience I otherwise get.Something like chip designer clearly needs a master, because you don't get that at bachelor. If I would do a master my most interesting area would be communications or signal processing. I also would see my self involved in other area's, but don't think I want to do a master in itConcerning how I study; full time. I never pull a night through. If I would do part time, I would need to get a place to life, a job, and study. I think it will be too much. I also know someone who does part time college. He spents all of his time on it. Including travel of the train/bus. He lives in the bigger city around here (about 45min drive) and still has 2hr travel by train, and 2 hr back.$19 per hour sounds fairly similar what I had last summer. I did summer work and got ~10 euro (12.27$, after tax) per hour. I was fine with that, it's about double of the minimum wage for my age.@Hypernova: Now I have some extra time I am already busy on finding/balancing parts for 2 projects.I just have to see how much I can, and how quickly I can, do something later.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 08:32:01 pm
content: Going to kick this back up, because I still have many doubts.Because it has been such a long time, a little summary about what it's about:QuoteI still have about a year to think about it. As I said, I have some medical interventions. End of July had first surgery and that went OK. They have straightened the right leg. Still walking with crutches though and very immobile.. hopefully the crutches are gone by the end of October.Then I have the other side, which is January (at the earliest I guess). It takes about 6 months between each side I believe. After that I probably have to do some extra rehabilitation. With that in mind, September (college start) seems like coming a bit too early..In the meantime I have been busy for next year. College (where I graduated) contacted me with the message they maybe can create a job opening 'for me' on a project I can work on 80%+ from home. They know my situation, my troubles with travel, and it would be really cool if that would work out. It's not certain yet, but it seems like a good deal. It's at least some work I can do now, instead of nothing.In the meantime I have been thinking about the master. Some friends from college started their master now and said it is a lot of work to keep up. I also recalculated the budget and it seems it will cost closer to 40k than to 30k euro. In combination with 2.5 year study makes it feel like a master seems like a lot of work and effort without any certainty it will bring much

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2012, 09:16:40 pm
content: I'd say skip the Masters, particularly as the financial burden is greater than initially thought. Take the offer the university's made, get healed up, then find other employment (preferably with a company that has room for advancement).The only way I'd recommend making an exception, is if the university hires you on full time after you've healed (requires relocation), and offers employees free tuition. If such a situation were possible, then take classes part time (not nearly as much out of pocket, as you'd already need to cover your living expenses anyway and tuition would be covered).

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 01:59:28 am
content: Jesus it makes me sick to my stomach that some of you are scared of taking a year off because you need a alabai for what you were doing during that time. What the fuck are you being interviewed by a detective?Fucking chirst, you are only alive once. Have fun.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 03:12:46 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on September 17, 2012, 01:59:28 amI agree, but I have heard a lot of people seemed worried about having 'gaps' on their CV.Can't say I've experienced that personally though.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 06:45:49 am
content: Quote from: steve30 on September 17, 2012, 03:12:46 amI have by an HR Dept. interviewer. So to me at least, there really is something to it.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 07:00:21 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 17, 2012, 06:45:49 amWell, if it was Human Resources, I'm not surprised. They'd probably be more concerned about it than, say, an engineer. Engineers probably have better things to worry about than this. But I doubt Human Resources people will.Having said that, when I was interviewed once by a Human Resources lady, she didn't seem to give a toss about my patchy employment history. Though that was for some basic seasonal work, where they take pretty much whoever they can get. So I suppose it may depend on the type of job as well.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 07:40:51 am
content: I am not worried about my CV. Some people lie extra grades together so they have suddenly got a masters degree. I am not worried about a 1-year gap to be honest. I also have 2 internship companies that are watching out and know where I stand.Maybe I haven't explained clearly that these surgeries aren't like I am completely disabled for 1 year straight. It isn't like my mind completely shuts off for 1 year and you can press a button to reboot it. In fact, most of time I am busy with stuff. But you can't make or do really from a hospital bed can you?QuoteA 22yr old sitting all day on a hospital bed for 3 months is fun. And in the winter another 3 months. Can you imagine I'd love to do something for a change? I see myself as temporarily not being able to walkBut that doesn't mean I can't do anything.Work may sound a bit harsh for that, especially as an excuse to fill up the CV. I agree with that. However the plus points are I'd have daily social contacts, it gets paid and it keeps me 'educated'. I also felt that college was the only party that would talk about custom work situations. I talked about it at my graduation company, but they weren't interested in such a construction.@nanofrog: the university I am talking about doesn't have master studies. It's an university of applied sciences so only teaches Bachelor. I am not really planning on staying there permanently indeed.I had my doubts indeed that a master is maybe too far reached. I'd love to get the extra education, but it sounds like too expensive huh

author: MetraCollector
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 03:19:56 pm
content: Hello Hans, I am little bit on way to be upset from your writings, because you are asking us something you know answer to it.Why don't you ask us if we agree or disagree with you ?In my opinion, health is the most important of all, there is nothing more important. Finish your Master Degree. And then get a job where you want and have an oportunity.I haven't finished my Bachelor Degree yet (2/3 of it) but I work for ON Semiconductor now as an test engineer. Well, I do many works, in spectrum of soldering and desoldering test-boards, calibrating equipment, programming machines, cleaning the lab, or filling in some papers, sometimes I kick keyboard for MS Excel like a monkey. Student work, but it is a jewel in my CV.I am not sure what it looks in Holland like, but in Czech Republic, there is nearly no industrial production and there is a desperate lack of people who know how to do something in real, technic world. That's the reason why the CZ is only an assembling hall of chinese shits.And Slovakia ? Haha, we can only assembly KIA cars, monkey work. And these Asians do not have to pay tax.All in all, education in Czech and Slovak republic is still for free in the definition, you only have to pay some symbolic costs. And for acommodation of course. Didn't you consider studying in CZ ?So, degree can help you, but it does not work for you. Everything depends on your abilities and determination. That's the reason I am where I am.Regards Ondrej

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 06:36:52 pm
content: I'm sorry to make you upset. By now I know 'the' answer, I think, but maybe I am not the most determined or conclusive person in the world about these things.I agree health is important. The things ftransform said are true and I should always hold back now and put health on number 1. That's the case now. It's improving and getting there and that's what matters most now.But such a recovery is also about the mindset. Being forced to 'nothing' all day is quite depressing. Maybe I am over exaggerating things but I am quite fed up with that.A colleague of a former internship had a very similar operation like mine. They thought he would be sick for 2 months at least. 2weekslater he was back at work. He couldn't handle staring at the ceiling all day and forced to do nothing. Of course, if someone jumps into a fosse I shouldn't do the same.However, the fysiotherapist has no objections either if I would do office work. With crutches I can move around. They actually motivate me to get out and around because that prevents thrombosis (medication against that is limited to 6 weeks, so I should slowly get more active again) and improves the speed of healing. If I consider such a thing, I always look at my own abilities. If I can't walk the distance, I am not going to try. If I can't work for 8 hours a day, I am not going to do now.I guess I haven't explained this quite well enough. Sorry if this caused any confusion or 'anger'.I haven't started master yet. I am/was not sure how useful a masterreallywould be and if it would justify the costs, time and the effort involved. Around me I always hear the answer 'yes study if you can', and surely that's true. But such answers never describe or consider my whole story. That's why I started this thread. I know explaining the whole story gets me in a vulnerable position.Ofcourse I knew beforehand that I wanted to do a master. Otherwise I wouldn't have considered it. But I saw many objections that I didn't knew the answer for (like I just said). So I hoped to hear how useful it is in the industry, how others dealt with it (and can give advice like the part-time option), or whether 30k-40k euro is worth it.I have been told by several people studying abroad is an option. I haven't looked to CZ in particular, but I saw the tuition fee's for international students are usually appaling. In Holland I pay about 1700-1800 euro's per year for tuition.In the UK that is easily in excess of 10k. I haven't looked into this very deeply, because I am not sure whether there are any scholarships for international students in Holland, EU or the college etc. The 30k-40k primirarly consists of additional costs, living, food and miscellanous stuff.By now I have come to the conclusion: 'no not very unless I can get it someone else to pay for it'.Should say I am still not sure what to do , though.I guess the last thing you said is very wise though.. In the end I am not dissatisfied with the field and projects I have been doing so far, so it's not a necessity in that respect

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 09:20:53 pm
content: Do you like academic study? If so, then I would say go for it.I suppose decided whether or not to progress with education will depend on how much you like it. I'm doing an academic course right now (HND) and have decided that I've had enough of academic courses for now. I've always fancied progressing to a degree, but I don't think it will be in the near future.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2012, 09:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: steve30 on September 17, 2012, 07:00:21 amOf course.Thing is, at least what I've seen here in the US, is you have to get through the HR Dept. first, as they pass their recommendations up the ladder to the engineers. So if they don't like the gaps (or anything else), then the engineers probably won't ever see your file.Quote from: steve30 on September 17, 2012, 07:00:21 amLocation and market differences perhaps. Things have been sluggish here for years (US), and getting worse from what I've seen (even before the Great Recession ever hit) due to things like outsourcing and 3rd party contract providers.Quote from: hans on September 17, 2012, 07:40:51 amOops. I presumed that the university went beyond the BS level (what I'm accustomed to).In any event, it seems as though the costs will be a real burden right now based on your descriptions.As per the cost issue, keep in mind, I'm looking at this from my perspective here in the US. Currently, student load debt is growing like mad here, and students are having difficulty in either finding jobs, or ones that pay a sufficient salary to cover both their living expenses as well as their loan payments. Hence the concern.Things may be different where you are, so that's something that's surely in your best interest to investigate thoroughly before making a final decision as per whether or not to persue a MS program right now (later on may still be an option).As others have said, the MS doesn't offer a lot of advantages generally speaking. There are exceptions of course, such as IC Design, if you're set on getting into management, or if you change your mind on a PhD.