What is really allowed for button cell batteries in products and shipping? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 02:56:49 am
content: I am working on a project that will use a 1225 button cell battery for RTC backup and would like to know from those who have actual experience, can I ship with batteries installed?

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 03:11:04 am
content: It's complicatedHere is a good place to start.http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 03:45:48 am
content: Here in Australia, if you go to the postal counter and ship something, they may ask you if it has a lithium battery in it. If it does, then you cannot ship by air, end of story. Either domestic or international.http://auspost.com.au/parcels-mail/dangerous-and-prohibited-items.htmlSame with pre-paid satchels etc, it's against the terms and conditions.Also, when signing up for my business account, I had to sign to that effect that I would not ship such "dangerous goods".It doesn't matter if it's a tiny 1616 coin cell, or battery backup cell, if you ship it by air you are breaking the law in this country.Of course, everyone does it every day

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 07:15:54 am
content: How is the restriction on sending a lithium battery by air any different to if I carried them with me when I fly, either in my checked or carry-on baggage.I have flown with laptop, camera and 2032 cell batteries and have not been asked if I had them. Had my stuff x-rayed too.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 07:24:09 am
content: Quote from: jhalar on April 30, 2014, 07:15:54 amPretty sure the rules say lithium batts must be taken as carry-on luggage and must be < X capacity and be packaged safely so no wires can short.They require you to take them as carry-on because, if they catch on fire, its discovered pretty quick and there's time/people around to deal with the fire.If they're catch on fire in the cargo hold its much harder to deal with. Assuming the alarms are working and they actually know there's a fire.Some planes have a special cargo area for hazardous goods but it's not for general passenger luggage, It's for special shipments.MH370 had a large load of lithium batteries in the hazardous goods area

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 01:02:01 pm
content: The real worry is that the people that make these rules are so stupid they can't distinguish between harmless coin cells and bigger batteries that are potentially dangerous.Stupid rules are actively counter-productive - the fact that people ignore rules when shipping harmless coin cells mean that it's more likely the rules will also be ignored when shipping more hazardous batteries.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 01:40:38 pm
content: QuoteThe people who make the rulesmightjust be bright enough to make the distinction but the people who police the rules probably aren't - we almost get theSpanish Inquisitionby the counter staff at the local post office every time we send anything.Especiallyif we've applied pre-paid postage labels (which I think might earn them less revenue).Within the UK it's OK to send batteries as long as they are within or with equipment and labelled - seehttp://www.postoffice.co.uk/prohibited-goods-uk#restricted. Isolated cells are not allowed.See alsohttp://www.postoffice.co.uk/sites/default/files/Lithium-Battery-Guidance-171012_0.pdfAs far as Royal Mail are concerned the same rules seem to apply to international post.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 01:53:27 pm
content: I remember sending one of my chemistry set experiments to a mate interstate as a teenager. Poured the assorted powered chemicals in separate envelopes. Just sticky taped them up real well so that nothing could leak out. Even adorned them with warnings including skull and crossbones. All got through no worries.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 02:14:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 30, 2014, 03:45:48 amHaven't you shipped like a buttload of uCurrent some time ago (police cars stopping in front of the EEVBlog HQ...)?

author: Grayfox
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 02:22:25 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on April 30, 2014, 02:14:30 pmThink he didn't supply the CR2032 battery with them.

author: theatrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 02:35:24 pm
content: For the US, the rules differ if they're installed in a product vs. "loose" cells.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 07:30:40 pm
content: A while back I sold my old iPod to a guy in Germany. The parcel was returned to me with inspection seals from customs.A note attached said that I was very naughty to ship Lithium batteries by air mail and that I should refrain from doing so.I called the post office and had 2 hours of discussions regarding their rules stating that batteries that are an integral part of an electronic device are exempt from this regulation as long as they are properly marked. But no, there was no way. I had to refund the buyer all his money. Apparently ALL international mail leaves by air mail here. There was no way to get the item out of the country by postal means. I had a relative hand-carry it back to Germany after a visit half a year later.What a very frustrating discussion that was - my main argument was that how are those items coming to Finland (they obviously are not manufactured here) if you aren't allowed to ship things with lithium batteries. And if there is an exception for commercial entities, why could an individual not pay extra "dangerous goods" fees to have items like that shipped.I could however buy lithium batteries and litre bottles of 99% isopropanol in Germany and have them shipped to Finland (DHL express - airmail....), no problem.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 08:04:44 pm
content: Personally I am just going to avoid the issue by making them required separately... I tried reading the PDF of the rules but it's written in lawyerese and is hard to follow. It says something about small batteries can be exempted under certain conditions but never really explains in what scenario that is, or if it does my lawyerese isn't good enough.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 08:13:22 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on April 30, 2014, 07:30:40 pm..so they shipped it back, doubling the "danger"

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 08:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on April 30, 2014, 07:30:40 pmA commercial entity has to ensure that there is no way the device can accidentally draw full power. Either with a mechanical interlock (be it a discrete on/off switch, the battery being shipped separately in the packaging or a bit of film over the battery terminals that the customer removes prior to turning it on for the first time.)They don't expect a private shipper to have the knowledge / ability to do this. When the company I work for started producing equipment with Li-Ion batteries in, we had to show to our shipper that we knew what to do and had suitable precautions in place to comply with the regulations - and we still have trouble every so often.Neil

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 08:30:24 pm
content: QuoteSomewhat difficult if the design calls for the lithium battery to be soldered in place - as in any number of bits of test equipment. Come to that I've yet to be shipped a motherboard where I've had to connect the battery, even though that would be possible as they're always in a holder.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 09:02:45 pm
content: Quote from: Neilm on April 30, 2014, 08:23:32 pmThat's exactly the issue, the battery was an integral part - I could not open the thing to remove it. It's not designed to be removed.I also boldly sent an hp3478a (lithium battery ofc, luckily it didn't come back) essentially violating the transportation rules.I do understand that you can't expect the end user to have the knowledge. On the other hand, why are they not able to tell the difference between those items that are designed to be shipped with the battery included, and those that are not? It's a huge farce. It is of course easier to handle by banning all lithium batteries (better safe than sorry, easier to train service point employees etc.), but it's a big customer service issue.