Recommended Beginner Lab Equipment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: asg32000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 04:19:14 pm
content: I have already searched and found multiple threads (not to mention EEVblog #168) covering the question: "What equipment should I buy for my beginner electronics lab?". These are all good and useful for a general overview, however, I couldn't find one that is up-to-date that I am confident in leaning on. Here is my request: can we get an "official" (or semi-official) EEVblog-recommended list of beginner equipment that is stickied in the "Beginners" section? It would be awesome to have this be a curated list that would be updated every few months or so. Of course, people can suggest equipment in the thread itself, but ideally the first post would be continually updated by the admin.It would be neat if there were three tiers for each piece of equipment: bare-minimum, intermediate, and advanced. It would be useful to have recommendations for each of these tiers so I can judge where I should spend a bit more, and what I should go with if I decide to spend more.I think a list like this (that is kept up-to-date) could help a lot of beginners like myself.I know I'm asking for a lot, but you nerds probably love this stuffThanks!

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 05:51:14 pm
content: I like what you're getting at, but as I'm sure you read in the other similar threads, a lot of recommendations depend on two critical pieces of knowledge: budget, and applications, meaning how you are going to use the equipment. The huge variation in these parameters from person to person causes large variation in recommendations for most areas. This limits any comprehensiveness that can be achieved without stating some pretty important assumptions which won't apply to everybody.I totally understand if you are thinking, "It's not that hard. Just tell me what is good value and what to stay away from." I feel the same way as I build my own lab. All I can say is that there are gems of this type of information in Dave's video reviews and in those threads you already viewed. You know your budget and application better than anyone else, so you can prioritize your equipment needs, set specification requirements for resolution, accuracy, and precision, etc. that pertain to your situation.I started with a multimeter (cheap Mastech one) that measured temp and capacitance, a powered breadboard (which I would not recommend) and an Analog Discovery. Later added a Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope, which has been nice, but I should have put it a little further down the list of needs.I honestly think Dave's How to Set up an Electronics Lab really says it all (at least 90%). In it, he gives brands, models, and tells when those things aren't important. I've watched that video at least 15 times over the years. I'd love for him to do another take on the subject, more of a volume 2 than a 2nd edition, though. Only discuss changes from the first one, then add more new recommendations in different areas.One way I think about equipment is to think of projects I want to do, and think of my equipment and measurement and power needs for those projects. You can do this for a couple different projects, especially if they are unrelated, and see the commonality between them. Get that common gear first.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 06:02:59 pm
content: When I was an impecunious student, I built my first computer from scratch using TTL, a 6800, switches and LEDs. The only test equipment I had was a multimeter - so I thought carefully and found ways of using only that equipment.I'm not suggesting you have to do the same, but getting into the mentality of thinking "this is what I need to know", plus "this is what's available", plus "how can I use what's available to solve my problem" has stood me inverygood stead throughout my career.The more complex exquipment you have, the longer you will have to spend (unproductively) learning how to use it, and the more chances there are that it will trick you.Now, consider you work for a leading-edge test equipment manufacturer. How would you design and test, say, a 7 digit voltmeter if only 6 digit voltmeters exist? That's a fun intellectual exercise.So: what's your budget, and - most importantly - what do you want to achieve with the equipment. The answers for a radio ham are going to be very different to those for a software engineer!

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 06:42:18 pm
content: I think Analog Discovery2 fits well into this application as a 1st equipment.When you need a more capable test equipment for the project you're working on, you'll know.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 07:02:42 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax_Error on January 18, 2016, 05:51:14 pm+1.Start building projects and see what tools you need. Don't fall into the trap of focusing too much on the tools you collect and too little on what you actually build with them.

author: SenSeS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2016, 07:05:00 pm
content: When I was a total noob to electronics, I bought pretty much everything he recommended cause I had no clue how else to make the choice. I was using a cheapy iron (not station) and probably like 1mm solder before I saw his videos. I must say, I've been very happy with just copy-catting. I was completely amazed at how easy everything was, I had a few components with no leads that I did with the hot air, and 0603 components with a 1.8mm chisel tip. A few items I didn't get though, like a microscope, solder gun, ESD mat etc, these were too expensive for me. Other than that, I would say copy him!

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 12:28:16 pm
content: Some solid telephone wire, cutting pliers and a dmm, nothing fancy, a uni-t will do just don't "measure mains current". When starting out you'll probably just copy stuff from tutorials on a protoboard. When you decide to try soldering get an iron, then after a while you'll figure out you could go with some tweezers .... etc etc etcPower your project with a battery and a linear regulator.If you want to play around with microcontrollers get an arduino for a couple of $ from china, can be programmed with the arduino ide which i have mixed feelings about, or even better program it from atmel studio and learn C properly. It can even be used as a cheap o-scope for beginners so highly recommended.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 01:58:21 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on January 18, 2016, 07:02:42 pmAbsolutely this.Other than basic hand tools, a multimeter, a PSU and to some extent a scope, most gear tends to serve a specific purpose so any recommendations will really depend on what you want to do. Test equpment tends to change quite frequently these days so buying for the sake of it may mean missing out on the next big wizz bang deal later. Building your own simple gear can be a great set of starter projects.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 03:38:24 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on January 21, 2016, 12:28:16 pmDon't laugh. I had a guy buy a $$$ Fluke and do just that - in exactly the wrong sense implied.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 02:46:36 pm
content: I tried to measure current that way once (a battery, but with similar end result). But I was 7 years old and it was some cheapie analog VOM, and I had no training whatsoever.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 02:57:57 pm
content: QuoteWOW!

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 04:01:54 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 18, 2016, 06:02:59 pmPffft. Take a six digit voltmeter, stick on a seventh digit in the LSD position, feed it from a random number generator, hire a marketing department that makes more money than the engineering department and sell it on aliexpressQuoteYeah, I'm both, so not necessarilyWhat would be really, really, really useful and not necessarily user-specific would be a list of brand names to avoid and ones that are trustworthy. Yeah, we all know fluke make good multimeters, but I'd never heard of Hameg before starting to search ebay for old analog scopes, and I could say the same about Rigol (it's been a while since I did hardware and I'm only starting back in now).Having a list that ran like:Hameg: made decent scopes in the 90s. Good models include the 406,...Rigol: make reasonable low-end DSOs. Good models include the 1052 but it's getting on a bit, the 1054z which sees Australians lose their freaking minds at their price/performance point, and....Hakko: damn good soldering stations. Don't buy their FX-888 online, they're all fakes....and so on.In other words, not what I should get, but where I should go if I wanted to get item X.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 04:28:56 pm
content: I agree with the idea that you buy as you go and as you need. Don't start off with some idea that you need to "set up a lab" all at once. There are a few things needed just to get started, but not a lot, and you don't have to spend a ton of money. It's probably better to be somewhat frugal at first to save money for good stuff later on. I started with stuff from Radio Shack back in the 80s, a $20 breadboard, a decent analog multimeter, a cheap soldering iron, and a homemade LM317 based power supply (made with parts from Radio Shack of course) and that was all I really used for many years.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 04:55:47 pm
content: I would suggest starting with a simple USB measurement device (like the Analog Discovery2) and a cheap multimeter. Then start working on some projects and buy additional tools and development boards as you need it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 05:14:01 pm
content: I agree with the advice of not buying everything up-front. You know when you need something because you're working and realize you can't do it.I have built up a minimal lab over the course of the last year, revisiting the electronics hobby I'd embraced as a kid and neglected in my teens and 20s. After the DMM and soldering station, I just acquired as I ran into a concrete need. This is what I ended up with, in approximate order of acquisition:1. Fluke 87-V handheld DMM2. Ersa i-Con Nano soldering station (includes 1.6mm chisel tip, i added 2.4mm and 3.2mm chisels and a 2.3mm drag soldering tip)3. No-name lab PSU (appears to be a Mastech HY3005D)4. Rigol DS1054Z scope5. 858D+ hot air rework station (WAY more useful than I expected, well worth the $50)6. Keithley 197 bench DMM7. Korad KA3005P lab PSU8. $20 eBay LCR/component tester9. cheapie VC830L compact handheld DMM for shits and gigglesAdditionally, I purchased various hand tools and supplies as needed, such as (in no particular order)- good diagonal cutters (the fine kind for clipping PCB component leads, with the little gripper that keeps them from flying across the room)- various types of wire strippers- various crimp tools- component lead former- top quality solder and flux (I use 0.8mm Kester 63/37 with type 44 rosin flux as my everyday solder, and I have a few others from MG Chemicals, and MG 63/37 solder paste)- solder reel holders- solder sucker- desoldering wick (MG Chemicals, best I've used)- hobby creek helping hands tool- trays to hold projects- Proxxon rotary tool (like Dremel, but far better quality)- breadboards and leads (commercial jumper leads, and some custom ones like banana-to-header, both male and female, for power, and 3.5mm audio plugs and jacks to male header)- test leads of all sorts (Fluke TL175 probes, banana-to-minigrabber, BNC-to-minigrabber, banana leads, minigrabber-to-minigrabber)- antistatic mat and wristband- power strip with individual switched outlets, for extra safety when working on mains-powered devicesAlso, because Switzerland doesn't have any distributors with free shipping, I stocked up on basic components, like resistors, caps, LEDs, pots, and protoboard. I also stocked up significantly on connectors, like headers, matching "dupont" crimp connectors and housings, spade connectors, etc. because the savings on connectors is just massive compared to buying at the local shop. Ordered from China, it's just amazingly cheap, and good enough for beginner tinkering. Then when I'm ready to build the final circuit, I buy good parts from the local distributor.If I had to prioritize, I'd say the essentials are a good DMM or two, an oscilloscope (SO MUCH you learn with it!), breadboards, and a good quality soldering station (it's a revelation compared to using a bad station or a simple "fire stick"). For many circuits, you can actually get away without a lab PSU, just run off batteries. I also might add the hot air station to the essentials: aside from being great for heat-shrink tubing, it suddenly makes SMD approachable, and it turns out to be handy for other things too, such as desoldering multi-leaded through-hole components.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 07:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 22, 2016, 05:14:01 pmThis is what I suffer from too here in Jordan. All these parts are so expensive! I bought some from China, but they are not enough! there will be a time where you need a MOSFET or a certain shotky diode or something... this is a problem. Do you know someone or some place that offer loads of these components together? not buying resistors alone and caps alone.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 09:47:43 pm
content: Quote from: asg32000 on January 18, 2016, 04:19:14 pmThere's no such thing as "bare-minimum". There's only tier that is worth noting when starting - "don't buy it, and if friend offers it to you for free, then reconsider the friendship". List of equipment to NOT buy is much more valuable:) If you start with a crappy protoboard and 5$ meter after a few days (if not hours) of frustration and failing you will be able to answer your question yourself - what do I need from a meter? Why is that breadboard crap? Don't focus on a gear, your lab will grow naturally when you need it and you'll make rational choice given your needs and budget. The best advice you can get is: 1) what not to buy (eg. these 100$ Ebay chinese usb scopes) 2) what mechanical tools/cables to get (these are cheap and give instant gratification in your workflow from the very beginning).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 10:41:18 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on January 22, 2016, 07:30:47 pmTayda Electronics (they're on eBay but also have their own website) is in Thailand and carries a pretty decent selection, and they ship really fast. Not as cheap as the cheapest Chinese vendors, but still very cheap compared to local.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2016, 11:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on January 21, 2016, 03:38:24 pmHad a guy do it with a Mastech, contrary to popular belief his arms are still attached, meter went mach10. Maybe they do meet their cat ratingBack to the original topic, as some people mentioned basic components are a good investment.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 08:44:15 am
content: Purchase #1: safety glasses to go with your cheap metersI'd buy:- TWO cheap Uni-T meters. Better have two shit ones than a single nice Fluke 87V. I've got 4 meters and I need another one.- a breadboard- pack of assorted resistors- pack of assorted electrolytic capacitors- pack of assorted polybox caps- assorted NPN and PNP gen purpose transistors- some solid hook up wire- some LEDs- 2 each 6v and 12v AA battery boxes and a crate of AA batteries (cheap dual rail supplies!)- battery clips- assorted trimmers- cheap Chinese banana plug to hook leads.- some ICs: 555, 741s (start with simple op amps)- LDR, thermistor.- side cutters- pliers- cheap Casio calculator- mechanical pencil- notebook, squared.- red bullI you're inclined, buy an arduino and some sensors but I'd nail some analogue first.I wouldn't buy anything fancy like a scope too quickly. Soldering iron and some proto boards probably next.Don't splurge on equipping yourself with everything you might need.Edit: the only things you mustn't cheap out on are the side cutters and the breadboard.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 09:35:26 am
content: Buy when you need it. It is useless to buy things you do not know yet how to use and maybe you will never use them.You can build instruments your self, very educational. When I started, I made a simple RF generator, totally crap but it did what I needed. But if you are not into radio you will not need one.I started with a Fluke77-III DMM, soldering iron and an old analog scope. These things can multiply as fast as rabbits, now you wonder what to buy, in a few years you wonder what to toss out because you need room for that calibrator that you must have because you then can calibrate that 10 digit multimeter as soon as it is invented, you can not be prepared enough ;-) A bit over the top ? Not really, it is the same problem you have now, wanting to buy thing you maybe can use somewhere in the future.Buy books and learn from them. Knowledge is still the most usefull tool.A list in categories is a great idea but not realistic.Take for instance beginner/ medium advanced: A HAM will use totally different tools as someone who plays with an arduino or wants to build audio things.Or the good/nogood brand lists. This will not work in a 1000 years. This will ends in endless discussions between the fanboy tribes.I really hated my former Rigol scope while probably >50% of the users here are Rigol fanboys. I know people who are very happy with there 10 dollar soldering station, I have a few very good soldering stations with a lot of power (Weller, Metcal, Pace) and sometimes even that is not enough. If you solder things on veroboard or single sided pcb's most irons will do, but if you want to solder caps in/out multilayer boards with a lot of ground only a few of the better station will do the job (without damage)

author: OilsFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2016, 10:00:19 am
content: OP seems to be implying that Dave's how to set up a lab video is out of date. I don't think it is at all. I had all the hand tools and a few Extech DMM's from my job. I took Dave's advice and bought a CRO off ebay for $50. I had to do some minor repair to it but it works well enough. I then got a function gen for $40 on ebay and finally I got a decent bench multi meter for $100 there too. Took me about 6 months. I just kept waiting till I found a good deal. I should mention that I can afford really nice tools if I wanted. I just haven't bought any nice ones because I wasn't sure how deep into this I wanted to go. Dave practically sold me on that Rhode & Schwartz HMO scope though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 12:18:51 pm
content: Quote from: OilsFan on January 23, 2016, 10:00:19 amThat's a very good point I didn't pick up on when I read the OP. Indeed, the only item in that video that's outdated is the oscilloscope recommendation, with the DS1054Z clearly being superior to the DS1052E recommended in the video.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 12:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on January 23, 2016, 08:44:15 amHonestly, I think that's terrible advice.You absolutely want to have one high-quality DMM whose readings you have absolute confidence in. The last thing you want is to be chasing down a problem when in fact it was just meter failure. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having extra cheap DMMs, but you want to periodically check them against your reference meter. (My Fluke 87 and Keithley 197 serve this purpose for me.) Similarly, I wouldn't recommend buying cheap Chinese cables, they break easily and are just plain annoying. By shopping around, you can get good quality leads for not that much more.I wouldn't recommend buying LDRs or thermistors unless you have a specific project lined up for them.I also highly recommend buying an Arduino. They're really good at letting you get quick results, which is rather gratifying and keeps you interested as you get deeper into the subject. I also find it strange that you would recommend becoming proficient with analog first, yet advise against buying an oscilloscope early. I think it's precisely for the analog side of things that an oscilloscope affords incredible insight. You learn so much by being able to see the signals that you're creating.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 01:16:50 pm
content: Side cutters don't need to be expensive, just proven to last, like these:http://www.amazon.com/Xcelite-170M-General-Shearcutter-Diagonal/dp/B0002BBZISAn EEV thread on tools:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/quality-tools-for-diy-electronics/

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 01:24:24 pm
content: +1 for the Xcelite cutters. I had a pair of them for about 15 years until someone used them to cut florists wire (the wife!)Quote from: tooki on January 24, 2016, 12:31:09 pmI've had a lot of cheap meters in the last 25 years and I've *never* had a cable or meter failure and the measurements are accurate enough for non professional use. Sure I use Pomona leads these days but you really are just pissing money away if you've just started out on a Fluke 87 and some nice leads.LDRs and thermistors are cheap, easy to understand and easy to use devices which actually allow you to stimulate a circuit past a pot or switch.I'm only saying avoid a scope until you get the basics down (DC). Then you've got the option of plugging some cash at a new one or risking a broken one.Throwing a lot of money into something or starting with a big shopping list is how to end up demotivated.Edit: just to add, accurate measurements are less important than making some measurements. You're dealing with betas of up to 200% variation, capacitors of 20% tolerance, resistors of 5% tolerance and voltage sources with relatively high internal resistance. Being realistic, a 2000 count meter with milliammeter for $10 is good enough to start with.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 02:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 24, 2016, 12:31:09 pmThat's nice - but not a necessity for a beginner. For most beginner's purposes, even a 20kohm/volt (i.e. 50uA) analogue meter is sufficient, and a DMM that is 1% accurate is just fine. But if working with mains, safety is important and cheap meters are often subtly dangerous. FFI, see elsewhere on this forum and at least one of Dave's videos.I managed for decades with an analogue meter, and still use it preference to my Fluke sometimes. Example: when looking at many digital signals to see whether they are high or low, briefly touch the node and see how fast it moves - you don't need to let it settle!Yes, I do have DMMs up to and including a 7digit DMM, but I rarely use that.QuoteA beginner is more likely to blow up their meter than someone experienced. Better that it is a cheap "throwaway" meter!Beginners should always bear in mind there is a learning curve associated with all equipment.It is better to get one item that is immediately useful and learn how to use that properly. Getting many items at once often leads to beginners being overwhelmed and discouraged.

author: necessaryevil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 02:22:36 pm
content: A good meter doesn't blow up even when abused. I admit, that that isn't true when used on higher than residental voltages. Or when the line is struck by lighting.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2016, 02:37:41 pm
content: I disagree. The only thing that truly prevents you from killing and maiming yourself is procedure and experience when it comes to electricity. Equipment only prevents a relatively narrow class of accidents. You can have a big red Fluke and still kill yourself instantly by being a dick with it.The three times I've taken a zap didn't involve a meter directly. First time was a bad earth on something already PAT tested. Second time was putting my fingers too close to a HV multiplier when probing (with a Fluke 77 I will add) and the last time was another bad earth where I didn't bother to check it first.Now under about 12v, you're going to get a small phut and a smoke ring, flying bits of SMD LED (they are like tiny grenades) and that's about it. Burning yourself on a hot resistor or wire is relatively common and your body reminds you to move pretty sharpish. Safety glasses are a good investment.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 11:13:11 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 24, 2016, 02:04:55 pmI think I need to clarify what I meant. I saidconfidence, notprecision. What I mean by that is that you need to be able to trust the reading. I've heard stories of people chasing down problems when in fact it was their cheap meter that had failed, not the device under test. So what I'm saying is, you need one reliable meter. All the others can be crappy ones, because you can periodically verify them against the good meter. Any of the ones recommended in the $50 meter shootout will be fine. I just don't want people thinking that a $5 830D meter should be their reference meter.The point isn't how much precision you get, but rather your confidence that the reading on the meter is actually correct.I'm not suggesting everyone go out and spend $400 on a multimeter (I got the Fluke because I've been lusting for one ever since I was a kid, and my 20+ year old Radio Shack meter finally died). The person I was responding to said "Better have two shit ones than a single nice Fluke 87V." No, it doesn't have to be a Fluke 87. But it shouldn't be "shit" either.Quote from: tggzzz on January 24, 2016, 02:04:55 pmAbsolutely. That's another reason why I think beginners shouldn't have absolute rock-bottom meters: We've all learned enough about them to know the limitations of a cheap 830D meter, knowing that it can be perfectly fine for measuring battery powered circuits, but understanding that it's a deathtrap if used in an electrical panel. A true beginner won't know that, and frankly I feel better recommending something that can take a bit of newbie abuse.Quote from: tggzzz on January 24, 2016, 02:04:55 pmYou don't have to spend $400 to get a meter that will resist pretty much any abuse an electronics novice can throw at it. (As long as they have a supply of fuses for the mA range)Quote from: tggzzz on January 24, 2016, 02:04:55 pmAgreed, hence my and others' recommendation of buying something as soon as you hit upon a wall where you need it. Except the oscilloscope -- I didn't "need" one, but damn has it helped me understand how circuits and components work in practice. It's a viewer into the world of electrons and I think it's incredibly instructive.Quote from: MrSlack on January 24, 2016, 01:24:24 pmAgain, confidence != precision. 2000 counts is absolutely sufficient. But you don't wanna be wasting time because your $5 harbor freight meter has failed and is giving you a reading that's an order of magnitude out. That's just frustrating. You want to have one decent meter (again, $50 being more than adequate) as a reference, and then all the other meters can be cheap ones since you can verify them now and then.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 11:16:40 am
content: I'll add one thing in favor of a really good meter: good continuity beeper. That's something where the costlier Flukes are just awesome!

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 11:25:34 am
content: The only meters I have on my bench are Fluke 25, which are available cheaply, as are the similar Fluke 27. ... and a 6.5digit meter of whatever variety I've recently bought a batch of. I'd be happy doing most work just using the Fluke 25. I regularly have six of them hooked up to a calibrator and they all read to within one digit despite not having been calibrated in years. Try that with cheap meters and it just won't happen. Continuity testing also beeps quickly.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 02:22:42 pm
content: I don't understand the fascination with the Fluke 87? Not trying to stir up a hornets nest, I just don't get it. It's a fine instrument but it's target market is industrial power applications. For the money there are better options (in my humble opinion) from Keysight / Brymen etc for electronics. My dad was an industrial contractor, he had a Fluke and knew why he needed it. For beginners to electronics, surely the best thing to do is get a good quality safe PSU and keep away from the mains if possible. A couple of cheap(ish) meters would work fine and if you have 2, you can always double check a reading if you think it is bad.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 12:52:33 am
content: QuoteI second this. Sure, I have broken two cheap DMM's. ... by taking them apart!You'd think electronics design has something to do with extreme mountain climbing and kayaking the way folks love their yellow meters.QuoteI personally don't. When I was gifted a Fluke a couple years ago, I turned it on, turned it off, and put it in the closet. I never checked any of my cheap meters against it, and I really don't give a rat's ass what the Fluke reads. If my meter isn't working and I can't figure that out without a Fluke to compare it to, then I have bigger problems than what meter I'm using. Occasionally measuring known quantities like mains voltage, batteries, PSU's, USB ports, resistors, caps, bench PSU, oscilloscope, otherwise known as USING a DMM, I think most people will notice if a meter is broken.QuoteSetting a meter to the wrong settings while connected to high voltage can break it. And you can't get a true RMS reading unless you are using a true RMS meter. Oh, and RTFM before trying to measure current. If you can remember that, you don't need to worry. My first $5.00 Sperry Pocket Pal is still working fine, 15 years later.Quote+1. If your job entails climbing up a tower in the rain or snow to troubleshoot and repair electronics, that's one thing. Sitting at a desk is a different application.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:57:19 am
content: I've seen plenty of cheap older meters that were 10% out on voltage. That sort of error can lead to a whole world of pain.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 09:48:32 am
content: Pehaps a cheap voltage reference is a good bit of kit then? Can knock one of them up for virtually nothing.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 02:41:20 pm
content: I completely disagree with a beginner buying a Fluke. He'll blow his entire budget on the meter and spare fuses. A beginnerwillblow fuses. And on low voltage low energy circuits, cheap glass fuses protect perfectly well at 1% the cost of the special ceramic jobs that the Fluke needs. Spend the money on Arduino clones and interesting shields and sensor modules for them. Or an oscilloscope. A working oscilloscope can easily be had for the cost of a Fluke DMM.Much better to have two (or three) cheaper meters, with cheaper fuses, andkeep them the hell away from mains socketsand other high energy circuits. One cheap meter is no good. But with two or more, you can cross-check them. If they agree, there is a high probability that neither has failed. When you can afford it, spend at least $50 on a "good" meter. "Great" can wait until you are either wealthy or actually need it. If you buy a cheapie (or two) make sure the highest current range is fused, as some are and some are not.Someone said they have seen "plenty" of cheap meters 10% out on voltage. Unless he's used many thousands, I call BS. There is no need to spread FUD around here. I have never seen a single cheap DMM out that far. I have some real cheapies, including a sub $5 job that is accurate to within two digits on every range of every function. The worst I have seen is my oldest (30 year old) 2000 count crap-o-meter which is spot on up to 1800 counts, then reads progressively lower up to 1999 counts, where it is about 2% out. Some sharpie on the front panel reminds me to not trust >1800 counts.I use my cheapies as often as my 7.5 digit Keithley bench meters. The right tool for the job isn't always the most expensive one, sometimes it is quite the opposite.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 02:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on January 26, 2016, 02:41:20 pmBeen doing this for 25 years and I still blow a pack of 50 meter fuses every year

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 04:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on January 26, 2016, 02:41:20 pmAgreed. You can get an Extech EX330 w/ freq counter that measures mark/space, capacitance, temperature, non-contact voltage detection etc online at homedepot.ca for $60; and get the lower spec EX310 for $40.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 05:41:17 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on January 26, 2016, 02:47:18 pmI don't really understand how you manage to do that, I've never blown a meter fuse in my life:DOn the other hand, I spent fortune on 9V batteries on meters without auto power-off until rechargeable ones started to become easily and cheaply available.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:50:13 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on January 26, 2016, 04:00:43 pmAbsolutely. As I have said repeatedly, a $50 meter like that is ideal. I did not say that I recommend buying a Fluke. I bought one simply because I'd been lusting for one since I was a little kid. I simply take issue with the recommendation of buying only "shit" meters. (A well chosen $50 meter, such as those extechs, is not shit.)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 09:08:23 pm
content: QuoteA silver oxide battery is ~3.000V, if you need that kind of accuracy.Laying around your lab, you probably have lots of SMD resistors with 1% tolerance or better.QuoteWhen I cared more, I tuned a meter here or there. Somewhere on the pcb, even on the cheapest meter, there are usually trim pots for this. I never saw one that bad. If you calibrate it yourself and still don't trust it...

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 10:17:21 pm
content: Interesting with the silver oxide batteries. That's probably a good enough reference for 95% of engineers.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 12:10:19 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on January 26, 2016, 09:08:23 pmI learned myself not to play with these single trim pots, usually if you trim these ICL7106 cheapies on one range spot-on, they won't match on other (because divider isn't precise), and spending an hour playing ping-pong with measurements to get a point where all ranges are in spec isn't really worth it. Let's leave tongue at a right angle maintenance to instruments where it actually matters.Let's make it straight, unless you want to conduct a specific experiment, where you do something with data (drift, I-V curve, whatever) you're actually looking at max one decimal point or so.Of course I mean typical amateur/workshop measurement, so please don't tell me that in this setup you need 3458A, and in another it's critical to measure your 5% 1k resistor to the miliohms;)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:14:51 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on January 26, 2016, 09:08:23 pmAlmost all the silver oxide batteries I can see are 1.55V; Farnell has one 1.5V one

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 06:47:05 am
content: Must admit I've never used a silver oxide battery (I'm not deaf, yet) and that does sound more like a typical cell voltage. I would have thought a voltage reference would have to have a known internal resistance as well and be as close as possible to an ideal voltage source. That requires active elements.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 10:17:54 am
content: Quote from: MrSlack on January 27, 2016, 06:47:05 amThe best standard cell, a Weston Cell, has high internal resistance and if you draw any significant current you destroy it.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 10:43:48 am
content: Quote from: macboy on January 26, 2016, 02:41:20 pmI'm not saying I've seen a lot of meters, but I'm down to about 200 at the moment.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 05:57:42 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on January 27, 2016, 10:43:48 amHoarder.Time for an inventory clearance sale IMHO.Or if you can't bring yourself to do that, at least set all of them up on a flight of stairs and take a family photo.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 06:59:48 pm
content: QuoteOh, yeah. That. 1.55V.I use these in my calipers, and I have some on hand. I forgot the voltage.QuoteYeah, but the input impedance of a DMM is such that you really don't need an ideal voltage source. You don't need a 10,000A low impedance output. It just needs to be able to deliver 1mA without sagging.This is one reason why silver oxide is a pretty good voltage reference, at least for a hobbyist buying a first DMM with nothing else to measure against. It has a flatter discharge curve than a li ion cell and no float/discharge differential of li ion / lead oxide chemistries.You still need at least one other voltage reference at the high end of your working range if you want to verify a sketchy meter.