Does this soldering station look safe to you? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: forumate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2022, 09:14:39 pm
content: Hello,In my previous post I asked for low cost soldering station for a beginner recommendations and I ended up looking for T12 tips compatible stations.Was also recommended Ksger brand, which I found its official store on AliExpress.But I was also wanred about some of these Chinese stations regarding their safety, as someone mentioned heatsink/mains trace danger.Ksger actually put the image of the station internals. Can you tell by this image if the station is safe?This is the product:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000608296529.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.4.1c4c372epWR4NZThis is the image of the internals (You can see it in the product page above as well):

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2022, 09:29:05 pm
content: Nope, you can't tell if the heatsink has been milled for safety clearance. The critical area is the top left corner of the lower heatsink, where you can see its directly over a track coming from the primary side reservoir capacitor. Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/modifying-the-ksger-t12-to-make-it-safe/for details.

author: forumate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2022, 09:47:23 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on May 04, 2022, 09:29:05 pmOh haha, so the mentioned dangerous Chinese stations are actually Ksger! I thought it was Yihua actually!I should avoid it then?*Edit: Doesn't the top heatsink also sit on a trace? Of the component behind it (mosfet looking component)

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2022, 10:08:42 pm
content: No need to avoid it - its safe enough if modified as described in that thread, and performs better than some of its competitors. The easiest way to do the mod is to put three layers of Kapton tape on the board between the problem track and the heatsink without cutting the fin, and also put three layers of Kapton tape round the side to bottom edge of the heatsink where it comes near the hot' lead of the blue EMI suppression cap next to it, and add a case ground.The top heatsink isn't an issue because its nowhere near the secondary side. The bottom heatsink bridges the milled isolation gap between primary and secondary so is potentially a safety issue.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2022, 10:12:23 pm
content: I would not say it is "dangerous". Could it be better designed? Sure. Is it actually dangerous? No, not at all. This is one of the most commonly used stations and thee are no reports of them doing anything bad as far as I can tell.People used to solder (and still do) with unregulated mains connected soldering irons and it was not a huge issue. Just use common sense.You can by super picky, but you would have to discard a lot of products.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2022, 08:25:51 am
content: Definitely not compliant so considered unsafe by today's standards, unsafe is potentially dangerous. There are about 4 or 5 problems I can see. The mains switch wiring, the mains socket wiring, exposed connections, ungrounded case, creepage, pcb isolation/shielding to the case, probably others and some minor ones like their pcb markings. It's very dangerous if you take the case off while it's plugged in (if that is not obvious).I think if you were selling these and someone got hurt you would be in deep shit. The main problem is these are locally made in china products and not built to western standards. The reason why the design standards are evolving, when someone gets hurt or a house gets burned down (i.e. thermal runaway in chinese hot air stations, chinese mobile charger kills someone) they investigate what the cause is. That is why non compliant products are banned in many countries.

author: forumate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2022, 08:35:46 am
content: Thanks everyone, regarding the tape, I see 2 places where the trace goes under the heatsink and maybe another one hidden in this angle (marked with question mark), should I cover all of these?Quote from: Shock on May 05, 2022, 08:25:51 amThank you, I might really consider getting an Hakko then... Or fix a very old station I found lol, looks like it's from the 80's (Weller TC202D)

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2022, 09:13:28 am
content: Use the Weller to help fix up the Ksger is what I would do. But I can understand if you aren't experienced enough, a good project to learn on though. There are a few youtube videos out there as well as threads on the forums here.They do have DC models also that will run off a something like a laptop brick. I don't want to tell you what to do either way but just being straight up about it being non compliant.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2022, 09:34:47 am
content: Even with the proposed modifications, there's no guarantee it's safe. You could hi-pot test it, which would increase the confidence level of it being safe, but that won't rule out other design flaws, such as cheap insulation in the transformer, which fails when it reaches normal operating temperature.I wouldn't recommend anyone buys anything dangerous, then modifies it to make it less hazardous. Don't buy it and if you've already bought it, return it! In many jurisdictions, you're still entitled to return a product for a full refund because it's unsafe, even if the warranty period has expired.Buying cheap, crappy, dangerous products, with the intention of fixing them is immoral. No one should be allowed to profit from selling products which can put the lives of unsuspecting buyers and other who might come into contact with them in danger. If it goes wrong, and injures someone else, then you have a higher risk of being liable, since you knew it was dangerous in the first place.

author: forumate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 08:39:22 am
content: Thanks everyone,I am not experienced indeed so I'm not sure I should start by modifying some high voltage components, even if it's just to put some tapeI'd prefer to find something else.Have the Yihua stations also been thouroughly reviewed as the Ksger? And someone confired they are safer?Also, I might be able to buy a decent station from Amazon.de, what are some good budget stations there, if any?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 09:51:55 am
content: Thank you for heeding the warnings and looking for something else.Unfortunately I can't help you with deciding on a low cost soldering iron. I also have the same question. I already have a Hako, which is reasonable quality, although I believe the thermostat is no longer accurate and runs hotter than the indicated temperature, but it still maintains thermal regulation. I got the US 120V version, which I run off a transformer, but it's a bit inconvenient.The only thing I will say is don't cheap out too much. Your best bet is to find something sold by a distributor, or supermarket, under the own brand, which is a rebadged Asian brand and get the original one. The fact a US company is willing to put their name on it shows it's decent quality but the Asian branded one will normally be cheaper, as you're paying for the name and US support. I don't know if this is the case with soldering irons. I'm basing this on the fact there are rebranded oscilloscopes and multimeters sold by western companies.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 10:01:46 am
content: Unless you buy 1st world brand mains powered equipment from a reputable distributer with a 'bricks and mortar' physical presence in your own country or at least within its economic area, there is no guarantee of electrical safety.Chinese resellers are essentially judgement proof (you don't have status in a Chinese court and they vanish at the drop of a hat) so there is little incentive for their suppliers to respect gwailou electrical safety regulations, knowing its for export, as the chances of it being traced back to them by anyone with standing in the Chinese legal system is minimal, and if the manufacturer does get any pressure from the authorities, it will turn out to be a fake made on an unauthorized 'ghost' shift using inferior materials under the authority of a manager who has since been sacked, and has moved far away and is untraceable or deceased.1st world rebranded Chinese imports are not totally trustworthy as unless the 1st world seller/importer pays for 1st world educated Chinese national 'boots on the ground' to perform surprise inspections of the supply chain (which the big names do for stuff made to their designs under contract in China), there is little to prevent their suppliers substituting lower quality goods after the initial batch have been accepted by the seller's QA department, and there is a long tradition of Chinese suppliers doing so if they felt the deal wasn't in their favor or if they 'lost face'. Therefore, often the first you'll know of a safety issue is when there's a product recall because of an incident which could have or has caused death or serious injury.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 10:05:22 am
content: Quote from: forumate on May 04, 2022, 09:47:23 pmThat KSGER is at least cheap and well documented with all its problems. KSGERs are OK if you buy the one without the integrated mains power supply and e.g. use a good quality laptop power brick with it. Buying anything cheap mains powered from AliExpress is a gamble with your safety, especially when you have no idea what is safe or what is not. Also you have no idea whether what is in the picture is what you actually get - AliExpress (and eBay) sellers often use generic pictures that don't match what they are actually selling, so asking about the safety (or lack thereof) from such picture is meaningless. You need to open the product and actually inspect it (and pray that the main transformer is actually done properly because likely you have no means to test it).Yihua is the absolute bottom of the barrel stuff. While it may not outright set your house on fire or kill you (even though dangerously miswired tools are not unheard of - e.g. the soldering iron tip was live!) but anything sold under that brand are copies of copies of others (Hakko, Atten - which is a copy of already, etc.) - and with corners cut and pennies shaved everywhere. The quality is terrible.Seriously, you aren't buying a soldering station for a year or two, a decent station will last you a decade or more. So invest a bit more money in a good quality tool and save you trouble and aggravation. If you buy cheap throw-away crap, you will need to buy another one sooner or later - either because the cheap junk fails or because it simply won't be able to do what you need it to do (or it even destroys whatever you are building with it!). A decent brand station is not that much more expensive, especially given that you are in the US and can e.g. get original Hakko (which costs a ridiculous amount of money in Europe). Or get the AIXUN T3A/B - those are cheap and excellent. So you won't save anything by buying junk like Yihua.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 10:10:31 am
content: Hakko FX888D station is $104 with free shipping at tequipment.net a little expensive but affordable. Hakko similar to western brands use a linear power transformer, so no probs there.The chinese make fake versions of Hakko stations so caution if not buying from a dealer. We get also a 6% discount at tequipment.net,code can be requested here.Probably a better place to get it anyway, check out the tips at the same time, it comes with a small smd tip so it's recommended to get a chisel or bevel tip.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 10:12:25 am
content: Quote from: forumate on May 06, 2022, 08:39:22 amI forgot to say it isn't electric shock, but burns and fire which are the main hazards with a soldering iron. The power supply and controller might appear to be perfectly safe, but it's no good if the handle gets so hot it can burn you, or the iron overheats and causes a fire.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 01:05:57 pm
content: Get the KSGER without the built in power supply and use your bench supply to run it. Or consider a Pinecil or TS100. Nice thing about DC powered irons is that it's trivial to run them from batteries.Quote from: Shock on May 06, 2022, 10:10:31 amThe one with the infamously bad UI? The digital version ended up being a downgrade.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 02:27:13 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 06, 2022, 01:05:57 pmNow, IMO, this has been exaggerated a bit.I have an 888D, and once one has chosen the number of presets and their temperature (I have three enabled out of the possible five, 270°, 320° and 350°), switching from one preset to the other is as simple as pressing the 'up^' and then the 'enter' button.Now, doing the setupiscomplicated, but it's done only once.Yes, one loses the easy continuous regulation of the temperature. I never felt I needed it.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 04:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 06, 2022, 01:05:57 pmI suggested the DC Ksger as well previous to that. The Hakko FX888D is not perfect but affordable robust and no problems with safety. Be nicer if it was $80 though. If you can't mess around with fixing up safety issues and don't want spend too much your options are limited.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 06:13:28 pm
content: If you absolutely want something cheap with dubious construction, just prefer tools that are not directly mains-powered, but DC-powered. Buy them without the DC adapter. And you can then use a safe DC adapter. It might not be all that cheap in the end.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 07:31:46 pm
content: OP your power supply looks like the older V2.04 power supply with a small change here and there. Don't forget to ground the enclosure, and the 5A fuse is huge.The newer V2.05 power supply (black solder mask) unfortunately removed the PE ground connection to the secondary side, the iron is ungroundedSo the soldering tip floats up to high voltage, it seems the transformer is poorly wound and of course, no safety agency testing at all. They did fix the traces under the heatsink screwup.A basic hi-pot test would reveal the shortcomings in the pcb design and transformer construction.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2022, 03:08:31 am
content: So in addition no ESD/ANSI/J-STD-001 compliance and no ESD consideration at all.