New Siglent SDS5000X HD series (published in China) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2025, 02:49:29 am
content: SDS5000X HD series of high-resolution digital oscilloscopes(Published in China 16.01.25, According to the Siglent stock exchange release no 1/2025,)Bandwidth: 1GHz, 500MHz, 350MHzNumber of channels: 8/6/4+EXTVertical resolution: 12-bitReal-time sampling rate: up to 5 GSa/sStorage depth up to: 2.5Gpts/channelNoise floor, low to 140μV (1 GHz model)Waveform capture rate: up to 650,000 frames per second (Sequence mode)Digital channels 16, 1.25 GSa/s sampling rate, 250 Mpts/chMath 8 channels8M FFTMore information will be added later...

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2025, 02:51:11 am
content: Reserved

author: Ulrich.G
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 02:47:08 pm
content: Really like that bigger 12.1" screen. Curious whether/when it will make it to the western markets. Tried to auto translate the chinese datasheet, document format is not that perfect.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 04:01:19 pm
content: 1280x800 resolution??? GTFO! Why are they refusing to increase the resolution on these newer machines??

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 04:57:43 pm
content: Oh, ohhh....No kidding, I had wanted a successor to the SDS5000X for a long time, or rather, if I wanted to improve the 3000X HD, then it would be exactly like this, with the larger display.@Josh:Regarding display resolution, 1280x800 is already significantly better than 1024x600.It doesn't get much better than that.Our HDO6043A has 12.1“ with 1280x800, our WR9054 15.4” full HD, so I have the comparison in front of my eyes every day.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 05:18:06 pm
content: https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds5000hd/Three-Phase analysis...very interesting.The prices are reasonable for what is offered(The largest model is still significantly cheaper than an SDS7000A.) ; an 8-channel model could be something for us (the company where I work).

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 07:08:19 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 27, 2025, 04:57:43 pmIt should! Full HD 1920x1080 should be the minimum for anything new of this level. Your Magnova has full HD too. 😉

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 08:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on January 27, 2025, 07:08:19 pmI do realize that all of us are fed this mantra "more is better" but that is not so always necessarily.This display is same as on my SDS6000A.And in practice it is good enough.Resolution is slightly better than on 3000xHD. Pixel size is slightly smaller.They also did significant refresh of GUI, refining fonts, AA and other stuff. Looks very nice, better than before. It was good before, now it looks more refined.12" is not so large to see much difference in pixel size going to full HD and it would be vastly more pixels to shuffle. So either slower scope or more expensive scope because of need for faster resources.In fact, 7000A has full HD on 15.6" and that is OK... I actually had to set fonts to medium because small fonts are kinda smalish...I would say that would be screen size where I would consider switch to full HD.Which Magnova has.But, to be honest, I never understood the race to 4K or 8K. I have 23" monitor here that is full HD and does the job..I always consider PPI (pixels per inch) of more than 96 PPI on a monitor point of diminishing return.I will pay for up to 120 PPI.12" screen on 6000A is something like 10.5" horizontally. At 120PPI that is 1280 pixels..Plenty enough for my tired eyes...But what do I know. I was one of those that was excited how nice VGA 640*480 looked when it came out.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 08:58:42 pm
content: QuoteMe too....

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 10:21:16 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on January 27, 2025, 08:58:42 pmMe too. 😉It's true the hardware might cost more to support higher resolution, but notthatmuch more. Not in 2025.My phones have been 4k for a few years now, and I haven't had a cellphone that wasn't better than full HD in at least a decade. More PPI for me, please. 😉😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 11:00:06 pm
content: Believe me, I have done this calculation more than once.For us hobbyists, the surcharge would be no problem; we would pay, let's say, €50 more and be fine.But there are at least two points that contradict this.For a mass producer, the €50 more would already be a significant cost factor, even if he can buy the displays much cheaper due to the volume.Then there is the added factor that the hardware intended for the display also supports the higher resolution.This brings us into an area that I myself do not know well enough to be able to judge.I can develop and build circuits for the audio range, and power supplies and control circuits are generally not a problem for me.But I can't design a DSO, so I can't judge why no full HD display was used.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2025, 11:12:21 pm
content: Fair enough, but I think we all know the truth- continuing with the current resolutions is the most profitableright now, and that's why they do it. I wonder how much longer that will be true, and how the market will affect that with competitors like Magnova and others running higher resolution devices at lower price points.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 07:06:19 am
content: We might be getting a 8ch L (headless) version also:https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds5000l/

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 03:53:59 pm
content: From the SDS5000L datasheet:QuoteSeems I was right about the hardware not being the problem. 😉

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 05:20:23 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on February 01, 2025, 03:53:59 pmHow do you know it is not rescaled?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 05:37:57 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 27, 2025, 08:55:04 pmThen you are missing out on a lot of things. Smaller pixels can render lines and text more nicely without the anti-aliasing resulting in what is (basically) a blurry display. Nowadays when I design a HMI for a product, I use high resolution displays because the image just renders much nicer. The GPU does all the heavy lifting. You can see the effect on smartphones; these typically use very high resolution screens to make text and graphics look really nice.On a PC the downside of using a monitor with small pixels is software which renders lines & text as single rows of pixels which then become invisible. However, on a modern day DSO I expect they all use GPU rendering so it really doesn't matter what kind of screen is attached. The GPU renders whatever graphics need to be displayed and projects it as a pixel array to the output resolution.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 07:24:54 pm
content: I'm yet to understand how having retina resolution will improve the image of a signal with all the device's sampling limitations and noise...Soon we'll be playing Doom in 16K monitors... just because...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 07:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 01, 2025, 05:37:57 pmI understand what are you trying to say but I am not.It is not as if I never experienced or tried such display, so I don't know.I did. And decided I don't care.If you go close to the screen you can see the difference if you are looking for it.Of course.But what ispracticaladvantage?What can you do with that monitor that I cannot do with mine?Is your document you are writing smarter somehow?Schematic better?Decoded signal is decoded better?Like I said. It is point of diminishing returns. Once you pass 120 PPI, eye does not see much difference anymore.On my Keysight you can clearly see the pixels. I would call that low resolution. But in practice I also couldn't care less.When I am working I am concentrated on my work. Never I noticed how it looks "old school". I don't care as long as it works.I look to read the number. Couldn't care less how the font looks like as long is legible and clear. I am not graphical designer.Super high resolution is just a visual preference of modern era. We were taught to expect it.It is sign of times, an era of form over function bias of today.People sent people to Moon with teletype interfaces and perforated cards.I look at retina screen on iPhone and simple screen on my Xiaomi phone and I couldn't care less for the difference. They are both good enough.If font is perfectly rendered despite being 2mm high makes no difference to me..If font is smaller than certain size I can't read it without optical magnification.Again that is me. Other people have different opinions. But I still think point of diminishing returns apply here. These are tools. Not artistic rendering machines for photographs and art.I would prefer for BOM to go towards analog front end, best ADC, faster math and such.And larger screens, not higher resolution.Screen size limits the way I work with scope. With physically larger screen I can view it from greater distance so I am more flexible where is what on my desk..So I would prefer 10" 1024x600 screen to 7" 1280x800 for instance.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 08:52:06 pm
content: I would definitely prefer a big high resolution screen on a modern DSO with a stationary purpose' when your price & featurewise are up in the higher ballparkMany of them seem to be stacked with adv. features, and often with UI, that relies heavily on windowing and will align a given feature to a given window to a certain part of the screen.Can imagine it can get a little cramp if you don't have the screen-real-estate & resolution to align these things to a point that it makes sense in practice.Same goes for VNA /SA's..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 09:17:29 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on February 01, 2025, 07:24:54 pmWell, it allows to do better rendered annotations / decoded signals, clearer text for measurements/ statistics, cursors, more detailed icons, etc, etc. All the same reasons phones have high resolution screens; a better visual comfort so use becomes easier. A modern DSO is way more than use displaying some wavy lines on a screen.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 09:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on February 01, 2025, 08:52:06 pmThat is SNA5000A with 12.1" display and windowing can be useful when you have 4 active ports....Attenuator tests from another thread:However with same 12" display in SDS6000A, 4 channels and as many Math channels, windows would make it too busy....OTOH SDS7000A with its 16" display and the windowing feature is another story....

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 09:46:23 pm
content: I know, simply an example of a stacked 12" 800p UINowadays.. these modern scopes, have so many adv. features, statistics, histograms, potent FFT that every inch matters, not least on an 8-channel scope like above.12" 800p ain't a lot for a bench scope up in the 5 digits in 2025, but a lot of Siglent's product portfolio over quite a few years, are based around this size so they have their reasons.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 10:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on February 01, 2025, 09:46:23 pmYup.Was surprised the new SNA6000A VNA we saw at HQ also used a 12" display.Fully spec'ed these are 6 digits in NZ Pesos.....

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 10:23:41 pm
content: A few years ago, you didn't have to worry about that(Display size)...Time flies.We have quite a few oscilloscopes from a number of “eras”.In 2006, the WS422 with its 10.4“ VGA display was the latest thing.Otherwise, we had 8” and smaller.Much later, the HDO6000A with 12.1“ and the WR9000 with 15.4” Full HD, and a few weeks ago the WavePro 254 with 15.6“ Full HD.When comparing the displays visually, the HDO's display looks better on its 12.1” screen than the WR9054's on its 15.4” screen.I think this is due to the resolution of the ADCs; the HDO has a native resolution of 12 bits, while the WR has 8 bits.The new WavePro is also pleasing; the display is the same as the HDO's, only “bigger” – and it also has a native resolution of 12 bits.So it's not just a bigger screen that makes it better; the resolution of the ADCs also plays a role in the “more beautiful” display.“At home”, when visually comparing my SDS3104X HD and the Magnova BMO350, I have to admit that the Magnova looks ‘better’, with the same ADC resolution.I also make no secret of the fact that I would have liked a larger screen with higher resolution for the 3000X HD, as a clear distinction from the smaller Siglent models.This is also to be understood as a gentle criticism, because at just under €4000 entry-level price, this model series can no longer be described as affordable.1280x800 and 12.1”, that would be an appropriate display, already known from the Pro-Series 6000A.Now with the new 5000X series and not already with the 3000X....I think this size is a good compromise, scopes with larger screens are very bulky, with the exception of the Magnova.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 02:28:48 am
content: Do we need a single window of 12bit signal at 4k resolution? Obviously not. But when we have the ability to have multiple windows showing different signals (or whatever we're splitting the screen for), higher resolution means you're not losing clarity compared to a less expensive scope fixed to a single window at 1280x800 or whatever it is. Split your 1280x800 to 4 windows, and how clear is each signal now?If the visual rendering is done via vector graphics, scaling shouldn't be an issue anyway. I think using low resolution panels accomplishes nothing except keeping their cost down $2 per unit, which adds up. 😉

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 04:43:48 am
content: Western release is in under 4 weeks !

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 04:54:22 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 25, 2025, 04:43:48 amonly why it has lower waveforms values than 3000 series :/(or those in 3000 series is just for marketing)

author: Ulrich.G
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 05:27:05 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 25, 2025, 04:43:48 am

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 07:23:55 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 25, 2025, 04:54:22 amDo the maths.....Attached might help....

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 04:36:27 pm
content: I agree it is faster than old 5000 series but if those price range will be +23% VAT well...for 4 channel models it will have HD304 as competitor (if they will fix it finally)pros 8Mpts FFT...best from prices is for 500 euro more or so difference 4 to 6 channel model on lowest variant that is nice - still knowing how it usually goes with prices here it will be way more than just + VAT :/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 07:50:55 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 25, 2025, 04:36:27 pmC'mon, in another thread you were discussing data throughput so using a similar design strategy to 3000X HD but with a higher sampling rateand3+x the memory depth why don't you think there'd be a small penalty in WFPS ?Them were the maths I was talking about......not about pricing.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 08:03:56 pm
content: I know - just hoped for better testicles, that is all...considering all expectations others had about this model

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2025, 08:30:54 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 25, 2025, 04:54:22 amAs always, these are maximum values that can be achieved under certain circumstances, at a specific “sweet spot.”Above and below this, the values drop more or less “drastically,” and in the ms range, it doesn't matter anyway...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 09:38:15 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 25, 2025, 04:36:27 pmNot anywhere near in the same class.12" vs 10" display12bit vs 8bit !2.5 Gpts vs 250 Mpts mem depth350 MHz to 1 GHz BW upgrades available...not for SDS5034X unless you purchase the SDS5054X3 Phase Power Analysis option1G vs 100M LANUSB3 vs USB2HDMI vs VGA outputsAlthough SDS5000X might be preferred if youmusthave individual vertical controls.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 01:11:57 pm
content: I used a VGA to HDMI adapter, and the SDS5000X output 1280x800.I wonder if the HD's HDMI version will output...(F)HD?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2025, 10:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 25, 2025, 04:43:48 amGetting low...

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2025, 04:46:15 pm
content: I saw at our distributors website that they added 5000x hd category but no products on list so farthere was only new one rack type (without display) for a moment but it is removed now - since we are starting a long weekend here I think more will come perhaps next week

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2025, 05:04:31 pm
content: Damn, now my SDS5000X is finally totally obsoleteAnd the ~3k€ (including VAT) I invested in the 350MHz model some years ago which I then "upgraded" to the "1GHz" model with around 750MHz real bandwidth was already the maximum that I could justify to myself for a scope that I only use now and then for hobby things. 9k€ for the 350MHz/4ch entry model is roughly three times the price of the original 350MHz/4ch and far beyond what I will ever pay for a scope again. And I'd bet these prices even exclude VAT.But yeah, it looks sexy.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2025, 10:16:08 pm
content: If you can put your obsession with sample rates aside, the SDS3000X HD series would be a good choice for you.With an internal structure closer to the SDS6000 Pro H12, the same ADCs (2 instead of 4), it also has 1 GHz (800 MHz) bandwidth, but 400 Mpts memory and modern 12-bit technology.Released just last year, it has enough potential to be adequately supported for years to come.At €4000 for the 350 MHz version, it costs only slightly more than the 5000X.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 04:27:01 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 18, 2025, 05:04:31 pmthis is very decent scope by any means - I would not call it obsoleteand yes prices are much higher than I expected - aka 3 times increase

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 08:11:05 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 18, 2025, 10:16:08 pmYeah, this obsession with sampling rate makes it kinda impossible for me to go "down" to 4GSa/s. Actually, if I ever buy a scope again, it should be something in the 10GSa/s or 20GSa/s rangeAnd I honestly don't think that I need 12bit. Sure, it would be nice to have, but I won't sacrifice bandwidth or sample rate for it.Besides, I could justify the 350MHz for me because I knew I could "upgrade" to >=500MHz "for free". So, the SDS3034X HD would be a downgrade in sampling rate and bandwidth.Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 19, 2025, 04:27:01 amYeah, the SDS5000X is still a pretty good scope and will serve me well for the coming yearsThere are just some minor quirks that make me slightly unhappy (e.g you can't select rising/falling edge for the frequency counter while this seems to be possible even on the SDS800X HD now).I'd also like better trigger possibilities (multi stage) and measurement options like in the better LeCroys with the according options. And I really miss something like LeCroy's WaveScan.But my impression is that Siglent doesn't intend to go in that direction. Maybe because LeCroy wouldn't like it.But yeah, most of the time, I just look at some digital signals to see that the timings are OK and that the edges/levels are not totally off, so my SDS5000X is actually already a bit over the top for my typical use cases and it's very hard to justify to spend 10k€ or so just to please my technical obsessions

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 08:10:37 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 19, 2025, 08:11:05 amThis is much more money and work involved into making such software so this is not the price point for itfrom new scopes actually that HD304MSO has FaultHunter feature but it has a price tag similar to new 5000x hd series in simpliest version so 5000 will have 350 not 200 MHz and even if 304 is 3,2GS/s on all channels it cannot interleave to have more like 5000 doesMyself I would love to be able to scale vertically the waveform (or part of it) with my fingers to have faster experience (on SDS814x HD if you do that it jumps somewhere and you have a lot of turning the knob to have it back if you try this) - for me this would be best (and also not very complex feature to implement as instead of recalculating the waveform to zero it could get the mean value of what is between my fingers and scale rest accordingly). Spoken with my representative about this and they will perhaps send it to Siglent but answer as usual - all scopes are working this way so why do it this way... is it really still 1960 and shall we limit ourselves by such gui decisions?Also other thing I do not like about those modern siglents (or most of scopes actually) is following:Imagine you are wathing some computer PSU +12V waveform - you have used auto then you have it centered on screen.then you change the scale or switch the probe to +5V and you cannot click on left bottom and then type in zero position as intuitive +12V or +5V or whateveryou need to input there -12V cause that position is an offset someone decided to use this way Lord knows why... :/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 08:30:53 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 19, 2025, 08:10:37 pmAh, so you're still getting to grips with your new baby Siglent.Utility/System/Reference Position has the user settings you need to make best use of some it's features like fixing the H Pos when its not at 0s and keeping the vertical position when using the vertical zoom.Have a play, you'll soon get the hang of it.Edit to add screenshots.First is the Ref Pos setting we dispatch all DSO's with.2&3 are with use of vertical zoom with the waveforms POI placed near the 0V position on the display with Vertical OffsetandHorizontal Position selected and a shift of the 0s position.Excuse the falling edge trigger....it was where I last used this DSO.Knowing where these are is the key and they should be in System as they affect all scope use

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:22:56 am
content: SDS5000X HD and SDS5000L worldwide release today, 20 June '25https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds5000xhd/https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds5000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds5000x-hd-series-digital-storage-oscilloscope/https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds5000l/

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 11:53:18 am
content: Yes, Batronix has already listed it too:https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS5034X-hd.html

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 12:46:39 pm
content: It's interesting to see that the price of the entry model increased most compared to the "non HD" SDS5000X. Almost factor three for the 350MHz Mode, but "only" about factor two for the 500MHz and 1GHz models. Also upgrading to 6ch and 8ch costs only 1000€ for 2 channels. Doesn't make the 350MHz 4ch model very attractive...There were times when new models with better features came out for roughly the same price as the previous models. These times seem to have passed.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 01:26:48 pm
content: I don't understand the pricing for this series. SDS5034X HD is (almost) twice the price of SDS3034X HD, and what exactly does one get for such a huge jump in price? Bigger screen? That sounds like too little for the cost differential.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:39:08 pm
content: The “5000” in the name refers to the maximum sample rate of 5GSa/s. Otherwise, it has little in common with the 5000X and is not its direct successor.The same applies to the SDS3000X HD, albeit not as drastically (It is not a “slightly larger” 3000X HD).Once you get that out of your head, the prices become clear.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:58:47 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 02:39:08 pmI don't see how it's not. What I see is - slightly larger screen, slightly higher sample rate, slightly more sample memory for double the price. Prove me wrong if you can.Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 02:39:08 pmSorry, but no, they didn't become clearer at all. I'm currently in a market for a scope of this class, and I don't see what would compel me to pay twice the price of 3034X HD. I would say 5.5K-6K would be more reasonable price for 5034X HD, but not 8K.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 04:44:32 pm
content: The pricingisweird. Did you know, if you have higher frequency range, the physical ports cost more, even though we all know it's all the same hardware?Channel pricing according to SiglentNA site:350M4 -> 6 + $8004 -> 8 + $19006 -> 8 + $1100500M4 -> 6 + $16004 -> 8 + $33006 -> 8 + $17001G:4 -> 6 + $23004 -> 8 + $40006 -> 8 + $1700

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 04:49:38 pm
content: 8 Channel 1GHz with all the options currently available: $23,480.I still want one, but damn.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 05:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 02:58:47 pmI don't want to, I can only say what is different between the two models, and just because the differences are “slightly better” does not mean that the price should also be slightly higher.According to that calculation, a 14-bit scope should not cost much more than a 12-bit scope, because it only has 2 more bits...And now I'll list the “small” differences, here are a few examples from the 5000X HD (vs 3000X HD):12“ display (10")1280x800 pixel resolution (1024x600)”Real" 1 GHz bandwidth for all channels without restrictions. (800Mhz limit when more than two channels are active)5GSa/s max sample rate (4GSa/s)2.5Gpts maximum memory (400Mpts)10Mhz Ref in/out (none)HDMI out (none)8 MB FFT (4MB)8 math channels (4 channels)3-phase power analyzer option (none)How big would the differences have to be/become for you to think they justify the price...The 5000X HD isn't just in a higher class in name alone.And it's not just that siglent simply soldered in more inputs for more than 4 channels.While thehuge memoryis obviously already on board, the missing ADCs will certainly be added to the 6 and 8 channel models.We (at work) are looking for an 8-channel scope. Feel free to ask Lecroy for a quote for an 8-channel scope.From our perspective, even the largest 5000X HD with all options is an absolute bargain.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 05:58:17 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 02:39:08 pmSorry, but I dare to disagree. The SDS5000X HD is quite obviously the 12bit successor of the 8bit SDS5000X. Siglent is removing the 8bit scopes from its portfolio, so the SDS5000X HD will replace the SDS5000X as it happened with other models as well. I also don't think that the "5000" has anything to do with the sampling rate. The 6000 series has the same sampling rate and no other series is named after the sampling rate. So the 5Gsa/s for the 5000 series is obviously a coincidence.So, it's a successor as the HD will replace the non-HD and yes, there are quite a few improvements but this was always the case with new models of digital scopes. Things like memory and larger screens become cheaper over the years, newer FPGA generations are more powerful, nothing there really explains why the price of the entry model is three times higher than its predecessor.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:20:39 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 20, 2025, 05:58:17 pmIt is easy to be dismissive to anything if you don't have all the data and chose to interpolate without enough data points.You can have any opinion but saying it is fact, but having no insight to what creators had in mind makes it non fact, but simply some opinion.Fair enough to have opinion but a stretch to call it facts.SDS5000xHD is, by its capabilities a close cousin to SDS6000A, outside China never released 12bit version.There is a SDS6000 H12 Pro, that is max 1GHz, 5GS/sec, 500MPts per ch, 12" screen, 8MPts FFT....You get the drift.SDS5000xHD is a up to 8ch version of that. So it is not "slightly upgraded 3000xHD". It is basically part of 6000 Series, but with "only" 1GHz BW.That makes positioning slightly below 6000, hence 5000xHD...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:24:05 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 20, 2025, 05:58:17 pmI agree with you, it is a successor to the old SDS5000X, but none of that matters. If you want to make a better comparison, compare it to what else is available on the market now. Find a competitor and see what they charge.That's how business like this work. They offer similar features at a better price than the market. What an older version used to cost isn't meaningful.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:27:46 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 05:45:53 pmI agree, compared to the market, it's a great bargain. But why the pricing differences for different channel numbers?It's all the same hardware. Going from 4 to 6 channels costs 2 or almost 3 times as much based on bandwidth. That's silly.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:33:33 pm
content: Hello,what is the 1-channel function and pattern generator (from Siglent)?As an eight-channel 350 MHz device, I can't find anything comparable from the competition.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:37:01 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on June 20, 2025, 06:33:33 pmThe same external gen they use for the low-end scopes- SAG1021i.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:45:29 pm
content: Hello,but what is meant by pattern generator?Batronix writes: “Upgradable to MSO with 16-channel logic analyzer, external 1-channel function and pattern generator (from Siglent) supported.”Best regardsegonotto

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:55:35 pm
content: Hello,what surprises me is that the device is heavier without the monitor.SDS5000X HD 5.5 kg, gross weight 7.1 kgSDS5000L 6.2 kg, gross weight 10.7 kgBest regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:57:40 pm
content: Hi,Probably because of the 19" full metal housing.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 06:59:14 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 05:45:53 pmYes, these are all incremental upgrades. Or you are gonna tell me that 12" screen is 3k$ more expensive than 10"?Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 05:45:53 pmFor double the price - at least double the difference. In my opinion, if we take existing 3000X HD prices as a baseline, for 8K I'd expect everything mentioned above + at least one step up in bandwidth.Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 05:45:53 pmIt's not in higher class at all, except for the marketing BS and >4 channels. And that's exactly is a problem.Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 05:45:53 pmWell if you have more money than you know what to do with - be my guest. I do not. I pay with my own personal money, and I know what it took to earn every single dollar.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:01:46 pm
content: Hello,the Siglent SDS5036X HD offers the best price/performance ratio.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 06:59:14 pmShow us a scope on the market that's a better value with at least the same specs.If you don't want to pay the price for this scope, buy something else. Or wait until the price eventually drops, or it shows up on the used market. That's how commerce works. 🤷

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:02:45 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 06:27:46 pmIt's the same as with laptop memory upgrades. The actual memory module cost $5, but vendor charges $200 for the service of soldering that additional module to the PCB. Or we can recall software options. It's yet another attempt at market segmentation.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 07:02:29 pmFor someone who doesn't care for more than 4 channels, 3000X HD is MUCH better value, as all specs are incremental and nowhere near enough to justify price hike.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 06:24:05 pmI do agree, but dare to have a different POV.It seems to me, since COVID, prices ( of whatever) are no longer in relation to what it used to be, or should be.My ice cream ( dame blanche we call it) is now 12€ while before COVID it was 8€.It’s still 3 balls of vanilla ice cream and the same shitty chocolate sauce.I see this in everything.I ordered 3 hoses yesterday that I also bought last year. Then I paid 44€, now it is 55€Why??It is exactly the same stuff.The same goes for cars.A friend of mine bought a new Audi A4 ( now it is called A5) . His former A4 was 35k, now it is 50k!I used (2013) to have an Audio A6 V6 3L Quattro station car with all options you can think of which was 40k at the time.Now you don’t even get a basic A4 for that amount of money.COVID made lots and lots of things very expensive.More expensive than it should be.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:54:41 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 20, 2025, 06:20:39 pmLOL it's nowhere close to 6000 series. It's a 3000X HD with a bit upgraded specs for double the cash - at least 4 channel versions are (don't care of others).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 07:06:02 pmIt is not an upgrade to 3000xHD series as I said already.SDS5000xHD is more of a 12 bit SDS6000 lite, for people that don't need 2 GHz BW..And platform with 4-6-8 ch.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 07:54:41 pmWhy are you laughing when you are wrong...Not 7000A.A 6000H12 Pro, China only version.. Only up to 1GHz, 12 Bit. 5GS/s sampling. Like I said.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:17:52 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 20, 2025, 08:00:39 pmI don't care about history, I'm looking at specs. And they tell me it's upgraded 3000X HD. 6000 series can do eye diagrams, but this new 5000X HD can not. So it has nothing to do with 6000 series.I don't know about >4 channel versions, but I predict that 4 channel versions will not sell and will be reduced in price, or it's value proposition will be enhanced in some other way (free options, BW upgrade, or something like that). Because right now it's a flop. Despite of what their lousy marketing wants us to believe. We'll see if I'm right.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:42:57 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 06:37:01 pmSAG1021I signal generator can be external or internal (SDS2000X HD, SDS7000A) - same specs (except for max enabled frequency), just different form factor.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:45:59 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on June 20, 2025, 08:42:57 pmCorrect, but it's not internal on this one.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:48:50 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on June 20, 2025, 07:17:25 pmTotally agree, which is why it's also silly to compare the launch price of a brand new superior device, to an older device that was launched pre-covid.It's a new scope. They can charge whatever they want. People will either pay or not.The only thing I think is dumb is changing the channel number pricing based on bandwidth. That just looks like they're intentionally price-gouging.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 08:17:52 pmNo offense, but if that's your stance, you don't understand the specs you're comparing.It's not the same boards. Not the same number of ADCs, etc. True 1GHz on all channels without limitations like the 3000X HD. Lots of other reasons.Is it overpriced in your opinion? Obviously. I think it's expensive too, until I go look at another brand.That doesn't make it what it's not because you want to oversimplify something.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 09:02:24 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 08:48:50 pmThis.Lots of manufacturers or distributors charge what they think they can charge, what the market allows them to charge.Price setting is no longer in terms of costs nor history, but all about a customer is willing to pay.just look at the debacle of Micsig and their ever changing ( almost on orders of magnitude) prices for the same scopes.Egonotto mentioned it somewhere in a topic.You see this in everything, it frustrates me so much.( probably because my wage does NOT change a bit).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 09:05:17 pm
content: Interesting views from all.....Deep diving into the now bigger range, SDS5000X HD being 12bit looks more like an updated SDS6000A and alongside SDS3000X HD there in no comparison. SDS6000A is the closest match to the SDS5000X HD but is just 8bit.I've had SDS5104X also and each has been a step up in capability and spec.In China there is 6&8ch SDS6000A but we only see the SDS6000L for more than 4ch in the west.Put SDS3000X HD alongside my SDS6204A and it seems like a wee puppy but SDS5000X HD will match it or better it for everything but BW.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 09:21:10 pm
content: The DSOs under discussion are a little above just entry level scopes, and one must consider the extensive non-recurring development costs as well as some of the higher end components like the ADCs and FPGA. Whatever the market forecast for these DSOs may be, it's much less than the entry level instruments, thus less units to spread the non-recurring development costs.To get a direct gauge on the recurring build costs, consider what 12bit high speed ADC and FPGA chips cost, these are not cheap for sure!!Honestly we have been impressed by Siglent's equipment for awhile now, both cost and performance wise, and just a few years ago considered an 8 channel LeCroy. The project never materialized so the LeCroy wasn't pursued, but the needed measurements required 8 Channels to be simultaneously precisely monitored (actually we needed 16) so the high cost was justified by the need. This brings up an interesting point as cost is perceived by the user and need, if the needs are demanding and unique one can expect the costs to follow, if ones needs are minimal then cost would appear excessive.Now if we can just convince Siglents marketing that they'll sell just as many SDS5000X HDs as the SDS800X HD if they offered the 5000 at $1000 we'll all be happy campersBest

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:11:35 pm
content: The problem is also a lack of knowledge about the market.Even Siglent can't work miracles: the 12-bit versions of the SDS6000 mentioned above cost significantly more than the 8-bit version available here and more than the new 5000X HD.Since the 5000X HD is slightly below the 6000 Pro H12 but very closely related to it, only a comparison between these two model series is permissible.Then it also fits in terms of price.If you want to compare, you have to use comparable things.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:23:11 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 10:11:35 pmI don't know. I mean, 350MHz for $8000? How much is that 350MHz Fnirsi again? 🤔

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 10:23:11 pmWith its 47kPts deep memory ?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:30:33 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 10:23:11 pmSiglent is already pricing their 350MHz models as 1GHz full-optioned... I wonder why.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 10:11:35 pmNobody cares about that. Except for Siglent shills apparently.Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 10:11:35 pmWho are you to tell others what is permissible and what is not?Quote from: Martin72 on June 20, 2025, 10:11:35 pmBingo! Siglent shills are busy justifying the money grab. That's all I see here. Interesting that even Siglent itself is shying away from such blatant BS, leaving it to shills who apparently have no shame whatsoever telling customers what they are allowed to think

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:25:31 am
content: Quote from: tautech on June 19, 2025, 08:30:53 pmHi, many thanks for this - I will check it out and let you knowSadly had a lot of work and extremely limited time to explore more

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:52:20 am
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 10:35:31 pmDon't be a dick. Nobody here is shilling for anybody. You're trying to compare apples to anchovies, and when people tell you to compare apples to apples, you get pissed off. That's not reasonable behavior.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:05:54 am
content: Don't bother arguing about price saying people are shilling for a $8000 scope, its a waste of time, this is well outside of the budget of any hobbyist, and clearly not targeted at us, or intended to be some great deal. Its probably not a coincidence that the cheapest 5000X HD is priced slightly above the most expensive 3000X HD. So its completely within an expected price range.Manufacturers differentiate 6-8 channels as a premium feature, just as probe detect is a premium feature, and highly marked up. Give it 2-3 years for more 6 channel scopes to come out and prices could drop, assuming there is demand for them. Even the cheapest rigol MHO5056 with 6 channel is $11k, you can get better value by buying two 4 channel units.On that note, I assume the 4 channel unit comes with only 4 channels populated? Anyone seen a photo where it has less than 8 channels.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:08:38 am
content: Yup, only 4 populated and their fancy sticker covering the other holes.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:26:38 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 21, 2025, 01:05:54 amNot in my book.Probe detect in the low cost Siglent models started with SDS2000X Plus but it's now in SDS1000X HD too although they are similar cost.A premium feature is active probe support but the full feature set also defines the premium features many other brands make you pay for.Recent chat in the HPAK 2000 thread wanting Histogram capabilitywhereas it's a standard feature in many Siglent models.Hell, we're all engineers and have been guided by datasheets for all we have done for decades yet despite this not everyone seems to be able to decipher scope datasheets and user manuals (aka a App note).

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 01:48:47 am
content: Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 07:54:41 pmwell I have an unique insight about this so you need to keep in mind a few things (and I do not want to start any scopes war also):1. Siglent nowadays is not some cheap scopes manufacturer like some used to that "chinese cheap stamp" - they just do some affordable - and I must admit pretty nice scopes - to be fair here if you look close enough you always find some things to improve in virtually everything you could take in handThey also put significant effort into making gen to gen jump - one can discuss some specifications (that I agree but still lets try to keep some balanced opinion)2. I agree that recent price increases even including 2000/3000 series pricing went significantly up but I did not expected 5000x hd to cost that much especially in China as it was presented in this thread (also to be fair in opinion I personally do not like but since 2014 components prices going higher and higher, when you make an order you need to wait /a bit less than during Covid that is superb but still not as fast as in the past yet) but there is a marketing trend to have 8 channels models on such price shelf and we cannot do much about that.An yep I think that some things could been made different way that is a topic for another discussion to keep this from growing exponentially hehe3. We are used to everything getting cheaper and cheaper and this also applies to scopes - my old 1054Z was kinda space ship class in its price range when it was presented to World but it is hard to beat something like that and we have developed an appetite for moreWe just need to wait another iteration/or two of models in my opinion to get some functions/speed from expensive scopes into cheaper class ones - let's just hope that next iteration will not go up in price like those went up because hardly anyone will be able to afford 2000 series not even speaking about anything more :/4. most of you sees 12 bit ADC -> there are different classes of them with totally different price ranges and I hope that Siglent used something corresponding with such price increaseQuote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 01:26:48 pmI also need to refer here to Martin's statement about 12 bits price -> in this price range you true have no big competition about 12 bit 350 MHz but you can actually get 14 bits 200 MHz from A brand cheaper than this /but less mem, more pricey options, but faster waveforms/s etc - I know Tautech- just trying to keep objective view corresponding to this price level expenditure /And on that part yep there is a field to discuss what is best for which situation and advantages of usage of those scopes and cost of ownership with upgrades etc. Rohde also is not sleeping with MSO4/5Still this is a very solid config for that money. I think just that Siglent took us all a bit by surprise, going so much up with prices in one iteration of models and I do not like that fact5. It is not a PC that you add more RAM and it is ready to use more of that RAMThis is a whole different way of design with significant effort to even manage such huuuuuge memory that this new series offers. And this comes at a price.Also with this series memory depth Tautech perhaps some things that you like to say about recording etc maybe will be really useful for my applicationI do have a plan to have one for evaluation if our distributor will make it possible - still this is quite a bit over my budget plans for a new scope6. I can agree with some vision that they could actually go with less mem depth to keep this more affordable cause this scope is still only 1 GHz top option or did I miss something here?.7. I saw some remarks about not having an eye diagrams:Quote from: asmi on June 20, 2025, 08:17:52 pmEm... first of all how would you actually plan to use them (with a good ratio of metrological confidence) on such a slow (low frontend bandwidth class) scope? You cannot even with some good certainty evaluate using this scope USB 2.0 speed interface from typical solutions - what one can see are only big problems - also this scope class (and 6000 series slower models mentioned also cannot) have bit too less GS/s for my taste so one can be certain what he is watching is what he needs to see and not some ADC/frontend/software approximation thing and I hope this is a pretty clear math thing. One could do some car protocols still even for 125 Mbits signal it is an 8 times ratio and I would like about 10GS/s to have my odds of capturing something small and very rarely occurring.Marketing and importing features from higher class scopes into low class is a good direction but there are things that will be restricted to those fancy scopes for coming years or next decade cause we went pretty fast from 1 GS/s to 2 GS/s (1054Z to SDS800x HD to keep this simpler) on chepe scopes but we can really see that even Keysight is struggling and dropped down from 5 GS/s on 3000 series to 3,2 GS/s on HD304MSO (but 3,2 for all active channels that is actually faster than old ones but one cannot disable a channel to get more). One could hope for next iteration to go to 4-5 GS/s on basic models range but I do not think it will happen soon.Such drop is not something we are used to but 8->12 bits transition comes with significant computing power/heat production cost and they have to keep them reasonable - look at this new 5000x hd series main plate -> 200W... how much was the old 5000 series? 100W?So yep I think they could have gone a bit cheaper but they decided to go full throttle way (or LeCroy wanted to go this way more and they designed to pump more of this as Siglents mem depth advantage). Also with such mem depth on Siglent one can assume that A brand version using usually limited mem comparing will be very fast in operation

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 08:14:34 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 21, 2025, 01:48:47 amHow you use a deep memory DSO depends primarily on your workflow, that is unless you're open to learning new things.Apart from the staggering amount of memory in these new SDS5000X HD models, how you use it to best effect is what really matters and what we are seeing come to market recently is the emphasis on digital STORAGE.This where we can use that immense storage for deep analysis when we have the tools to do so too.Using Zoom mode can impact sampling rate but long records can be configured in the primary timebase and inspected in detail with the zoomed window. Deep memory and higher sampling rates give us more confidence our captures are accurate.If you are of the LeCroy faith you will know zoom out of a capture is not possible but any model SDS2000X HD or higher allows for a change in the Acquisition mode for zoom out of considerable capability and often an order of magnitude more than other brands with lesser memory depth.Automatic memory management being the norm allows the scope to give best performance but the zoom out of captures is useful to some users.We shouldn't ignore Sequence mode where when configured correctly long captures with zero blind time are also available for further analysis.What is not clear yet is how large the memory really is in Sequence mode in these new models but in other Siglent models a Sequence capture is somewhat larger than the official mem depth.You should have a play of Sequence mode in your wee SDS800X HD.All in all any modern deep memory scope that lets us see what's happening at amazing speed is no longer just a scope but an analysis tool too.Quote

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 10:32:49 am
content: Hello,unfortunately, an important piece of information is missing from the data sheet. How long does it take to transfer 2.5 GSamples to the PC?Best regardsegonotto

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 10:52:14 am
content: Hello,the large memory sounds really impressive. And I am impressed too. But that's just a feeling.But when you think about it and compare:The SDS3000X HD can capture 100 ms with maximum sampling rate on one channel. The SDS5000X HD can capture 500 ms.The SDS3000X HD can capture 50 ms with maximum sampling rate with four channels. The SDS5000X HD can capture 200 ms.How often are 100 ms or 50 ms insufficient, but 500 ms or 200 ms sufficient? It would be interesting if someone could provide examples.My guess is that the benefit is rather rare.Best regardsegonotto

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:26:35 pm
content: Hi,you have an important remark there with time to send this - time will show heheI was thinking about not needing full sampling rate but to cover the whole 1 s of time or longer periodMy way of thinking here is following - if current one has 50/100 Ms mem total and I can get 2,5Gs total mem then yep I will try to capture more having 50-25 more period of time available with ability to increase number of points per period captured.I often have issues with industrial boards that for example hang or loose sync of clocks after for example 15 min of operation so for me this is very much worse than needing merely a fraction of second...Usually if you have a really bad implementation or big problem with processor/clock or few things not working together well you should see it in fraction of second but this is often not always the case.I think bigger question is not how long it will be recording but how well it will trigger with mask test - how tiny that needle causing it to trigger maybeStill I prefer HPAK approach to trigger for me when I need it and trigger very fast usually (but money involved are meh...)For recording to be fair but also not cause the heart attack of some or accusations of isanity but we would need not Gs but Ts mem (and I really love the jump from Ms to Gs level to not understand me wrong here)BR,KM

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:32:00 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on June 21, 2025, 10:52:14 amYou can also think about it as this means being able to capture 4x or 5x more data without dropping sample rate.......I agree, it is not something all people need all the time.But it is there if you need it.One example where this is useful is, for instance, various power converters where you need to look at nanosecond order of magnitude edges while looking at demodulated 50Hz waveform going through some kind of transition (load change for instance). So you zoom at gate driver edge while capturing 10 periods of 50Hz and then move around looking at what happens at certain points.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 12:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 21, 2025, 12:26:35 pmFast triggering and long memory are mutually exclusive.Your problems of loosing sync after 15 min is solved with triggering and segments/history. It will have timestamps also.If you share exact setup we can design setup for it.Intermittent glitches you catch with triggering. Or some equivalent of SignalScan.Long memory solves problem of needing to look at parts of a longer event/sequence at very high sample rate.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2025, 11:57:36 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 21, 2025, 12:36:44 pmthis problem is a bit more complex and I made some ways of working around this (for descriptions before I tried to keep things simple)one of problematic things type I often fixed during last years are 3D wheel aligners from certain well known brand that I rather do not mentionThe design is not bad (but I would made it different way), manufacturing quality sometimes could be better (especially solder used on some units or subcontractor cheapskated them I dunno - boards from ROHS beginning time period are pure full of traps horror sometimes) but there is a lot of problems that separately everything works OK for short period but in set or partial set operation after a while things start like some camera stops blinking or looses picture and it is not always a camera itself problem - at many times replacement of connectors between cam boards and some soldering fixes a lot of things but as those are not so simple things one needs to watch more than a few things same time - and for this sadly approach with fast triggering HPAKs works best in terms of time to see that problem source (or few sources usually) so one sets up a few scopes and makes em all trigger to one interesting signal and sees on other channels if this is USB cam chip, something inside cam itself before sending data to USB bus, dropout of coms with interface board that works as USB hub + software security platform and there is lot of issues with board alone that can make hairs go greyPractically last time I used that to fast diagnose and fix it I needed like 3 or more scopes so cost involved with fast ones is considerable and that particular job is not paying as much to justify such expenseYep I usually do some recording or use different set to test individual sub boards on working set exchanging one by one and make it running for hours in the mean time working on another one - still this is time consuming - takes at least few days to have few "tested" boards, requires an unit on premises and this takes space and more to that it is not easy all time to check one scopes mem agains another one (some things are not causing a triggering just you see them in history and those are a real pain but not so often occuring) + if you would take three same scopes it is not that they will all always see that event occuring so usually I do not use segmented mem but just record everything for some time to have all I can - on that I agree with Egonotto way of perceiving this mem thing. And yep I also help myself with logic analyzers but they only show what they can and usually not what I need that much.There are also other complex boards that same as mentioned above aligners come without any service manuals in terms of real board operation with expected waveforms etc so work step by step - manufacturers think that folks will spend a bag of money for them every few years but they need to work like 15 years (at least) to be paid back if not very often usedTherefore I do have an apetite for more everything simply cause all this they put here and there makes my work easier even if I borrow one when necessary or go to use one somewhere - and I am really happy to see any progress forward (given kept under reasonable pricing on lower shelves)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 01:05:32 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 21, 2025, 11:57:36 pmThis is when you need make best use of the tools right in front of you.Your most powerful tool is always the trigger and knowing how best to set it.The problem normally is knowing how to set the trigger up to find a problem once you know it's there.Persistence and color grading are your are best friends in these cases and then the large range of triggers available in the modern DSO.Once set correctly and Search enabled you can see the fault incidence by adjusting the timebase for long captures.This methodology is used to zero in on known glitch signal from the Siglent STB-3 in this post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1370717/#msg1370717Even your wee SDS800X HD can manage this.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 02:21:29 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 22, 2025, 01:05:32 amit is not so wee just limited, same with sds1204x-e - both for slower signals are pretty decentfor the rest - problem is a bit more complex as when it happens on one point I measure it may or may not cause system to loose stability thus I measure a lot of them and I usually use excel to import all data and then plot myself all waveforms of correcponding moment from various scopes - having one waveform in zoom from history is having that occurence but not how rest was affected by it -> thus I can select a set of boards that will work together despite having very slight issues not very calculable to repair and bin out those really needing some parts and more diagnostic or just board replacement in some cases (some are very expensive and hard to get in good condition)

author: youngda9
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:20:43 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 20, 2025, 04:49:38 pm8 Channel 1GHz with all the options currently available: $16,680.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:30:52 pm
content: Quote from: youngda9 on June 22, 2025, 03:20:43 pmthis is excluding options or did I missed something?

author: youngda9
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:34:09 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 22, 2025, 03:30:52 pmI was posting the base price, my mistake. Not sure why add the price of ALL the options into the mix...since most won't need much of that.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:37:00 pm
content: at times they make special offers with some options included or bundle packs like for 2000 series so I hoped it would be the case later on in EU hehe

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 04:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: youngda9 on June 22, 2025, 03:34:09 pmThe price I stated was all options included, and I do want all of them.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 05:43:38 pm
content: Plus some isolated probes?Damn i want those.(I just found out about this one!)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 08:46:06 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 25, 2025, 05:43:38 pmMore info on these new 500 MHz and 1 GHz ODP6000B probes:https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-104.htmlInteresting that they require 2A USB and battery power for the front end.....

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 09:35:12 pm
content: Interesting!!The extra DSO probe connections are vertical as shown, will this work with the SDS3000X HD which has horizontal connections?Best

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 09:43:07 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on June 25, 2025, 09:35:12 pmThose are completely standard SAPBus interfaces, except rotated "on the side" to get better packing factor.So any SAPBus interface probe goes into any SAPBus interface scope.But these optical probes are not SAPBus interface as far as I know.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 09:45:07 pm
content: I don't see why not.The vertical alignment is due to the number of channels, which require the corresponding amount of space.Edit: too slow...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 10:31:30 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 25, 2025, 09:43:07 pmSeems not.US webpage has some different pics:https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/optical-isolated-probe/

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 12:57:42 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 25, 2025, 08:46:06 pmWouldn't it be hilarious if the front panel USB couldn't handle that?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 01:16:49 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 26, 2025, 12:57:42 pmWhy would it be hilarious?Optical probe USB side is not meant to be powered from the scope. 2A per probe is a lot.I would not want to do it anyways.Probe manual is specific:⑤ Power supply connector: please use adaptor and power supply cable of 5 V/2 A. This probe may notwork properly with insufficient power supply.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 02:27:59 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 26, 2025, 01:16:49 pmWhat the heck it needs 10 W for? I can run middle-tier FPGA or CPU with that kind of power.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 03:51:30 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 26, 2025, 02:27:59 pmI wouldn't know. I didn't design it.But these are 1GHz BW probes, there is electric/optical, then optical/electric conversion.Similar probes from other manufacturers are also at 5-10W..

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:28:02 am
content: conversion on low power signals is usually with lots of noise so design trick is to make/work on signal stronger then convert it and make back output as necessary for receiver(but I never made such probe like this myself so just guessing)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:31:26 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 26, 2025, 01:16:49 pmbecause it would be aif it didn'tbecause they are designing a new oscilloscope that is clearly meant to be used with these probes if one does power analysis.Probe requires power from USB.Oscilloscope has TWO USB ports on the front.Not making the two ports capable to power a probe would be a massiveIMHO. How much more would it cost, on an instrument in this price range?

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:45:07 am
content: Looking at the prices at Batronix it is nice to see that 8 channel scopes are slowly coming down in prices. Still way too much for me but the SDS5038X HD is not that far away from 4 digit range including german VAT. Even cheaper than Rigol DHO5058.Would love to see a 8 channel version of SDS800/1000/2000 series but i guess that does not happen anytime soon.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:12:21 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 27, 2025, 07:31:26 amNew things about 5000xHD series is 3 phase measurements.I disagree with statement "oscilloscope that is clearly meant to be used with these probes if one does power analysis" ?Optically isolated probes are specialty tools. Not a required probe for this scope. They are needed for some specific measurements.Current probes and high voltage differential probes would be more of "required" basic probe types for this type of work.Most people will never buy one. It depends what you do in power electronics field.You can use it with SDS3000xHD if you wish. There is nothing specific to 5000xHD series to those probes.Scope has 2 USB ports for "normal" use.If you buy optical (or any other probe) that is not passive and uses USB power, provide for its power by using a powered hub or power supply. Like the manual says.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:18:06 am
content: The scope is being marketed as a complete solution for three phase and for wide bandgap development.The optical probes are also new, were probably developed around the same time.There must have been at least one person during development that said hey, why don't we make the usb ports on this new scope compatible with these equally new probes that we want to sell with this scope?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:31:14 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 27, 2025, 11:18:06 amWhy would they do that?They gave you perfectly good solution. Probe has it's own power.And probe was not developed as part of same project.Probe is also meant for any scope.You can use it with R&S scope.Why was R&S so stupid not to make enough USB ports and 80W of power on them for Siglent optical probes...?We could argue why was probe not made for SAPBUS....There is your clue.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:38:01 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 27, 2025, 11:12:21 am3 actually.Quote from: JPortici on June 27, 2025, 11:18:06 amSimilar time for sure but not restricted to the new 5000X HD.It's not like 6 or 8 ch is anything really new for Siglent when the 6 and 8ch SDS6000A and L versions have been available for a few years. We just don't get the 6000 benchtop scopes in the west, only the L headless versions.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 02:42:28 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 27, 2025, 11:12:21 amMan, now you're just arguing for the argument's sakeWhat would it cost Siglent to make these ports capable of providing full 10 W each? a few additional dollars in BOM + possibly a bit more powerful PSU? That would definitely make these ports more versatile, since a lot of stuff nowadays is powered by USB 5 V. So either they didn't think about it, or they did but decided to save a few bucks off 4-5k$ BOM. I'm not sure which one of those is worse...

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:37:19 pm
content: Quote from: Domitronic on June 27, 2025, 07:45:07 amAnd again this just goes to show that the 4ch versions, especially the 350MHz model arewayoverpriced.E.g. the Rigol DHO5058 costs about twice as much as the Rigol DHO5054 even though the DHO5054 has 4GSa/s per channel even if all four channels are activated while for the 8ch model, they are interleaved.In contrast to this, the price of the SDS5058X HD is only 34% higher than that of the SDS5054X HD where both models use interleaved channels.IMHO, there is no way around it: the prices of the 6ch and 8ch models are OK, but the prices for the 4ch models aremuchto high.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:58:40 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 02:42:28 pmI am happy for you to have your own opinion. Good for you.I will keep mine, thank you.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 27, 2025, 03:37:19 pmYep, that is my opinion as well - 4 channel variants are DOA. Current pricing tells me they don't really want to sell 4 channel versions, but would rather try to upsell to 6-8 channel ones. If I were to consider buying a 4 channel version for $8080, I would definitely find another 800$ on top to go for a 6 channel variant instead even if I don't really want it just because the difference in price is insignificant. But like I said before and despite what shills are telling, 4 channel variant is just a 3034X HD on steroids for half the price, so I would most likely pick that one instead because to me the specs bump is not worth the price increase.So either they really don't plan to sell a lot of 4 ch variants, or they will have to either make them cheaper, or increase their value proposition in some other way - like add free options, BW upgrades, etc.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 27, 2025, 03:58:40 pmWe'll see in a moment if you even have your own opinion. Do you agree that making USB ports provide 10 W each would be a notable benefit for low effort, and it's just a common sense?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 05:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 04:54:04 pmYou're vastly oversimplifying this. Would I like those ports to have extra power? Sure. Does it really matter for my use cases? No. I'll probably never get those probes or anything like them.But for the sake of argument...Increased power means larger power supply, more heat, more robust cabling (including protection from heat dissipation on the internal cables), design to protect scope from all of that, increased risk of failure at the front ports, increased heat and wear on the PSU, etc.Why would anybody want to add potential issues, that will cost more than you assume, to avoid using a power supply for a very specific probe that most people won't use?If you want to reliably supply 10W per USB port, that can't be the peak power. So now we need to design the ports to supply higher than that, say 12W to 20W. Let's go on the low end and say 12W. As tautech pointed out, there are 3 USB ports. So we need to be able to reliably supply 36W total for those ports minimum. According to the datasheet, it's 123W typical power consumption (max 200W) for the entire scope. Now we need to increase the power supply at least 30% to cover USB ports for probes that can be externally powered, that most people won't use anyway.This argument doesn't make any sense to me. If you think it's so simple to design that, show us your foolproof design. 🤷Thanks,Josh

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 05:40:02 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 04:54:04 pmI allready said it many times. I would not abuse an 20000 USD instrument to charge phone or power various devices. How many probes do you expect to connect?I need front port for USB drive and mouse..

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:02:55 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 27, 2025, 05:19:44 pm30 W is not 300 W, none of what you says apply here. That adds only about 30 W / 90% ~ 2.7 amps of current on the main 12 V rail (AFAIR that's the main rail coming from PSU) if we assume 90% buck efficiency (though for fixed output voltage it's possible to optimize for higher efficiency). So not need to exaggerate.Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 27, 2025, 05:19:44 pmWhat potential issues are you talking about? If you don't trust Siglent to properly design a bog-standard 30 W DC-DC converter (which most designers can do in their sleep), how come do you trust them to get the rest of it done properly?Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 27, 2025, 05:19:44 pmThat would add like 20$, maybe 30$ to the 4K$ BOM. Sounds like a great deal to me, I would take it any day even if I'm not sure I ever need that functionality - just on the off-chance that one day I will.Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 27, 2025, 05:19:44 pmWeak arguments all round from your side so far. Try harder next time.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 27, 2025, 05:40:02 pmWhy not? You do trust designers enough to pay that kind of money for the instrument, but not enough for them to properly design a 30 W DC-DC converter?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:25:42 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 06:05:10 pmI have met very few people with such selective event horizon..There are only 2 ports in the front. I need them for actual intended use.As i said good for you and fact that you have opinion. But you forbid I have mine ?

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:50:36 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 04:54:04 pmAs for me, I don’t.There are power supplies for that.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 27, 2025, 06:25:42 pmI'm yet to hear a good argument against having this feature. All you're doing is trying to defend an obvious design oversight. Unsuccessfully. "I don't need it now" is a bad argument - this device is likely going to be used for many years, and I'm fairly confident that over that time period there will be moments when this will be handy. "Brand X doesn't have it either" is also a bad argument. So gimme a good one, or admit that there is none.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 06:56:45 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on June 27, 2025, 06:50:36 pmThey take space which is much better utilized for something more useful.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:03:58 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 06:02:55 pmYou clearly have no idea what the cost of development for literally anything is. Let's pretend it is only $30 in parts. Do those parts magically appear, fully functional, with no potential issues ever?Or does it require work from engineers on the design team, then testers to make sure that there's nothing wrong? ...and then repairs later when somebody finds something wrong.Is all that free? For something one random guy on the internet wants, who probably isn't going to buy the scope in the first place?That's what's called a poor ROI.Please show which scope you will purchase instead that has 10W or higher USB ports available to power external devices.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:04:24 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 06:54:04 pmI think you have some kind of cognitive impairment...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 27, 2025, 03:37:19 pmI think that if the prices for the 4-channel versions were significantly lower than for the 6/8-channel counterparts, then the 6/8-channel models would be overpriced.Their prices, on the other hand, are considered “OK.”....This is somewhat contradictory, as the 5000X HD models only differ in the number of channels (excluding bandwidth).This means that, with the same platform, either an additional ADC (6ch) and 2 inputs are installed, or 2 additional ADCs (8ch) and 4 inputs are installed.As a customer, I would be very surprised if this resulted in significantly higher prices – which they would be if, as requested, the 4-channel models were to be significantly cheaper.That's why I don't think the 4-channel models are overpriced.WhatIfind inexplicable, however, is that the price differences between 4, 6, and 8 channels are not consistent, but vary depending on the bandwidth.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:22:35 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 26, 2025, 12:57:42 pmI'm quite sure they couldn't.AFAIK the USB ports are limited to 500mA and with overcurrent protection.That leaves the SAPBus to provide the optical probe scope end power supply but any engineer in their right mind wouldn't trust pogo pin connections for 2A or expect it to be reliable over many fitting cycles.So IMO Siglent chose the only sensible option, a separate USB supply which also offers the advantage these optical probes can be used withanymodel.....or brand.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:30:40 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 06:56:45 pmA scope is not a power supply.I rather have an issue with a 30€ usb power brick than a f*cked up expensive scope pcb.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 07:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 27, 2025, 07:21:55 pmAgreed. That's some goofy pricing nonsense right there.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 09:04:33 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 06:54:04 pmOne problem with your argument is that you are focusing on one just USB port, but what if you have a 6 or 8 channel scope, you’d need also 6/8 usb ports on the scope with 2A capability each since someone MAY require the use of these types of probes for all channels.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 03:00:19 am
content: Considering what we are dealing with here I kinda do not understand why one would like to have an extra 80-100W stronger PSU inside scope (+more noise issues, scope cost increase given making extra 8 special USB 2 Amps ports then making em protected enough, stronger cooling for internals -> more audible noise, instead of adding some really usable thing/option to scope for that unit price increase...)and even if they would made such scope I would never used that option to not brick the scopes board accidentally - it is far cheaper to replace the external PSU for probes - you can even power them from powerbank/battery to be more certain about some things

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 04:30:43 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 27, 2025, 07:03:58 pmLol you clearly have no idea what are you talking about. I've designed hundreds of DC-DC converters, trust me it's not a rocket science at all. Besides, they likely already have at least a dozen of DC-DC converters to power CPU and FPGA, so adding a couple more would be just incremental cost.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 04:32:44 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on June 28, 2025, 03:00:19 amActually more powerful PSU would be more quiet when not at full load compared to lesser-specced one running at full load, so you've got this argument backwards

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 04:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: PartialDischarge on June 27, 2025, 09:04:33 pmWe're talking about enhancing existing ports, not adding more ports.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 05:43:37 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 02, 2025, 04:30:43 pmHow many 8 channel oscilloscopes have you designed? What products do you have publicly for sale?You still haven't shown a single example of an alternate scope with what you want. 🤷

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 06:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 02, 2025, 05:43:37 pmI have designed enough CPU and FPGA boards to know how to properly design a DC-DC converter. And since this scope works, I can presume Siglent engineers also can do the same, as this very scope contains a bunch of them.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 06:43:47 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on June 27, 2025, 04:54:04 pmAs someone who developed their own USB oscilloscope probe, I can tell you that my SDS800 USB port was noisy and it required quite a bit of effort to clean it up so it doesn't appear on the scope's screen. While my probe, the PRP1 can be used with this noisy port, it required LDO and RC filters for example , not a luxury that you can afford in a probe that needs already 10W to work.Those ports are for flash drives to save data. Maybe a mouse if you like clicking on a scope.And from the other side, I don't think the USB ports on a scope should have special attention to them to be low noise. It's an unnecessary expense for 99% of the people. Just have low noise power on the probe interface.About the SDS5000 series: I've just seen it, looks interesting. It's expensive, but good value. Probably it could use a larger resolution screen (already discussed). But probably the bigger missing feature is a second LA/Wavegen interface. Even this scope cannot do those at the same time, which would be quote necessary for a mixed signal systems. Only with the Wave gen over USB or ethernet.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 08:38:30 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on July 02, 2025, 06:43:47 pmNo Siglent DSO's offer this, not one.Currently there is only the 50 MHz 1 ch SAG1021I and the 16ch SPL2016 LA probe.Although with intelligent use of the scope's I/O connections and a standalone 2ch AWG plus SAG1021I I/O ports several stimuli could be provided when/if needed......

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 08:44:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 02, 2025, 08:38:30 pmTrue, but what I'm saying that they should really look into offering this.An entry level MSOX2000 series that's cheaper than this offers that functionality. Having the AWG synchronized to the trigger, and being able to look at all the digital signals and the analog signals together is very useful. If you have an AFE with switches ADCs and a bunch of opamp, there isn't a replacement to this test setup to verify it. You need a Scope with Logic, and AWG preferably synchronized to it.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 08:54:34 pm
content: Do you have a practical example to help me understand what you mean better?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 09:05:14 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 02, 2025, 08:54:34 pmSure. For example you make a system that uses a complex AFE like below. You might have several ADCs with SPI interface, that will measure different signals every other cycle, that is selected by analog muxes. Settling times, slew rates and other analog limitations make it very difficult to debug a working system. I have actually had measurements where I ran out of the 16 logic and 4 analog channels.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 10:20:42 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on July 02, 2025, 09:05:14 pmWould a requirement for say 2 logic groups, each with different thresholds etc be useful ?If we use a SDS5**8X HD model 24 channels for digital and analog signals are available plus 1 more if the Ext trigger input is used.How many is enough ?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 10:27:24 pm
content: These are special cases that require special equipment.There will never be a scope that can perform every conceivable task.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 12:26:37 am
content: There are lots of inexpensive 32 channel logic analyzers available for a fraction of the cost of the scope.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 06:29:19 am
content: Quote from: asmi on July 02, 2025, 04:32:44 pmI guess you did not understood at all what I meant - but as you are clearly well educated in matter I let you medidate a bit on this untill you will see what I meant and your skills will improve a bit

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 06:41:16 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 03, 2025, 12:26:37 amlogic analyzer can do only as much as logic states for youbut you need real analog channel sometimes to see what is going on and it is pretty similar to my problems that I need to use sometimes more than one or two scopes and make em all trigger at exact same moment and then see on all channels what was going on for example on another side of board cause there is not good chance of catching that particular glitch with proper triggering on all scopes same time so pretty lot of time wasted on "repeats" and sometimes (usually) there is more than one problem on board under test so it saves time to see that sooner than later and just replace few items at once and increase your odds of fixing it greatly while keeping the time cost down.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 03:02:44 pm
content: I guess you both need the 8 channel version then...might even need to get the rack version, and stack 2 or 3.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:31:44 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 02, 2025, 10:27:24 pmSpecial equipment, like expensive multi channel oscilloscopes with built in AWG and logic analizers. Or generic ones where you can buy these things as options.Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 03, 2025, 12:26:37 amIf you don't monitor the control signals of the multiplexers, you don't know which signal you are currently looking at with your analog channel.Guys you need to learn to take the feedback as it is, and not to get upset about it.Quote from: tautech on July 02, 2025, 10:20:42 pm24 sounds good, much better than the typical 16.Tek's flexichannel is probably perfect for those jobs, but then, I don't get to buy scopes that cost 6 figures.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:35:42 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 03, 2025, 03:02:44 pmfor now I am lucky I do not need a lot of above 100-200 MHz channels or one can always swap them with slower in case but who knows what future will bring...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:48:21 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on July 03, 2025, 09:31:44 pmOh, of course, I just didn't want anyone to get the impression that it's a general shortcoming if a scope doesn't offer what someone specifically need for his task.That impression can quickly arise.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:56:51 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on July 03, 2025, 09:31:44 pmWho got upset?Anyway, you can stack the 6000L and new 5000L up to 64 units. 512 analog channels enough for you?To be fair tho, I have no idea if they sync the digital channels, and I'm too lazy to go past the first image.They don't seem to have the digital channel port on the 5000L though. What's up with that, Rob?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on July 03, 2025, 09:31:44 pmWell the maths aren't difficult, 8 + 16 = 24But we can get a lot more channels, both analog and digital by using multiple units of the SDS5000L and its 64 model synchronization system.Just like the 6000L before these, buy a rack and build a complete system with 1000's of digital and 100's of analog channels.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 10:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 03, 2025, 09:56:51 pmYup, seems like the move to the thinner rack unit doesn't leave enough space for the digital socket whereas SDS6000L has 2 form factors, both of which have space to have the SPL2016 socket.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 10:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 03, 2025, 10:06:47 pmDo they need the USB logic analyzer? It still says "Serial bus triggering and decoder, supports protocols including I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN, CAN FD, FlexRay, I2S, MIL-STD-1553B, SENT, Manchester and ARINC429"Though the page is a little confusing, and still shows the SPL2016:https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds5000l-low-profile-digital-storage-oscilloscope/Forjust$46k, you could get four SDS5108L scopes and the SYNC64. That's a bargain compared to the one MX05 I priced out. 🤣🤣

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 02:40:43 am
content: I was thinking about 5000L for some time but there are two things that bother me;- that lack of digital channels (supposedly)- noise level as this is 1U unit so fans rather will not be pleasantfrom positives:- I should fit on my desk under power amp ^^

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 03:05:10 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on July 04, 2025, 02:40:43 amYup big minus no LA capability in the L model.I have SDS6054L which is the same 1U and not at all loud once it has booted and fans dropped back to idle.You should ask for one to assess.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 01:52:02 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 04, 2025, 03:05:10 amI was thinking about the one you have also 10 GS is very nice

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 02:26:38 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on July 05, 2025, 01:52:02 amIn ESR mode yes and each channel has a 5 GSa/s ADC.Both the 5kL and 6kL are just the same to drive/operate as your SDS800X HD in webserver mode or you can do it locally with just a keyboard (if needed) and a HDMI display....the USB WiFi mouse is a std accessory for these models.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 04:02:53 pm
content: Not sure if it has been said already but a non-full-HD screen on that price of equipment is pathetic. At least there is HDMI for an external screen now. But does the external screen run at 1920*1080? If not, then that is really, really pathetic.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 04:30:38 pm
content: Read the first...30 posts.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 08:53:26 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 07, 2025, 04:30:38 pmWhat's there contradicts that point? I see only 2N3055's pathetic attempts to justify it by stating that HE doesn't see the point - as if anybody here cares what 2N3055 does or does not see.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 09:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 07, 2025, 08:53:26 pmLikewise nobody cares about your opinion... Is that it?So what is point of discussion if nobody's opinion is relevant?We are EXPRESSING our opinions here... Didn't you yet understand this point about forums...?At the same time, I explained why I think super high resolution screens contribute very little to utility of the scope and it's fitness of purpose. Keysight HD3 also does have "only" WXGA screen.I see no point in Retina screens either. Which I also explained why.OTOH those that would like 4K 10" screens so far only claimed "it looks nicer" card.Sure it does if you say so. I don't care.It does need to process 6-8X more data though.I would prefer scope to use that processing power for math etc..

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:13:42 pm
content: No one is forced to buy something they don't like.It sounds simple because it is.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:22:13 pm
content: Some people are too simple to grasp the simple.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 06:21:01 am
content: Can we calm down please.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 09:38:20 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 07, 2025, 09:06:49 pmI don't want 4k 10" panel either, what I want is 2k 15" panel. Especially 6 and 8 channel versions could really use extra screen estate. And don't tell me that this panel will add a lot to cost - quick browse through Amazon shows there are portable monitors with such panels for only 300-400$.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 01:37:15 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 08, 2025, 09:38:20 amSDS7000A 15.6” 1920 * 1080 is a substantial leap in size from 12" SDS5000X HD and both support multi windows however 5000X HD is not supported by the PC HW 7000A models are.Instead we need be thankful these higher end models offer HDMI for us to formulate a display solution best suited to our requirements.7000A 15" display is big, really big......Pic from our HQ visit last year with SDS3000X HD and 7000A scopes side by side, 10" vs 15"

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 02:26:03 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 08, 2025, 01:37:15 pmI saw it a couple of months ago and was impressed by the size. I actually applied for funding to get one unit, and after seeing it I realised I may be in a problem of where to place it If I get the money lol

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 11:26:55 pm
content: Hello,in SDS5000X-HD_SDS5000L_QuickStart_EN01A.pdf I read:"HDMI Video Output. Connect the port to anexternal monitor. The resolution is 1280 *800"Best regardsegonotto

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 11:34:34 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on July 08, 2025, 11:26:55 pmExact same as the scopes display.From datasheet:Large 12.1” TFT-LCD display with 1280 * 800 resolution

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 04:11:49 am
content: it is a chipset/scope architecture limitation not only a GPU part of chip - for upscalling one can always use the built in monitor upscaller (if present).but result will be always worse than real high res picture made from more points and tailored to that resolution - even upscalling is not proportional when tried on FHD screen. would be better to use:1280 x 2 = 2560800 x 2 = 1600so 2560 x 1600 classic older type of screen to upscale while keeping proportions each one pixel from scope into "dot" made from 2 x 2 pixels of same color on monitor.Still no extra "details" from such operation just bigger diagonal.BTW even Keysight with HD304 went with no FHD on built screen for same reason to keep cost lower

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 10:54:17 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on July 08, 2025, 11:26:55 pmOuch. That is bad. Even the $300 Rigol DHO800 can manage a proper modern display output.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 10:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on July 09, 2025, 04:11:49 amBoth companies charge enough to pretend they did put better screens. 🙄

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 01:23:53 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 08, 2025, 01:37:15 pmSince HDMI outputs exact same image than what you see on the scope's screen, you don't really get anything by using larger and higher resolution display. So utility of that feature is questionable at best. But I get it - designing scalable GUI is too hard even for big boys like Google and MS.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 01:48:21 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 10, 2025, 01:23:53 pmYeah right then this is not for you but others that might want to use all the features it offers and make proper use of a large display.Start activating 8 analog channels and apply Math to a few and Decode to a few others plus some Digital thrown in for good measure the you'll be glad of the HDMI or your 27" PC monitor and its webserver.It's really hard to please everyone......

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 02:52:24 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 10, 2025, 01:23:53 pmAnother use for the HDMI port would be a full framerate capture of the scope screen. I'm assuming the web console framerate will still suck compared to the screen on the scope, so it's not great for video capture of anything fast like XY music. Which is obviously the most important thing on a scope this expensive.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 05:40:40 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2025, 01:48:21 pmThat's the point - it doesn't offer any features, other than forcing monitor to upscale image (with typically very subpar quality, I'm yet to see a monitor with good upscaler), so the only thing you get is larger pixels, which contain no new information.Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2025, 01:48:21 pmNot really - just implement properly scalable UI, and render at connected display's resolution as opposed to scope panel's resolution. The only utility of existing half-assed implementation is for those with very poor vision, which could use larger pixels.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 05:46:25 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 10, 2025, 02:52:24 pmYeah, there is clearly a lot of EEs which buy 10K scopes to play XY musicOh, and they only ever buy 8 channel scopes, even though XY only requires two, because - well, just becauseIt kind of reminds me of my friend's son, who tried to convince his father (IT specialist) that powerful video card is absolutely essential for his school PC

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 06:26:57 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 10, 2025, 05:46:25 pmSince the scope supports windowing, they should make it so we can have 4 XY music windows open across the 8 channels.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 07:36:53 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 10, 2025, 06:26:57 pmIt would also be cool if they would let the first channel control X axis, and every other channel would have it's own Y trace (with it's own color), so you can draw multi-trace graphs.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 08:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 10, 2025, 07:36:53 pmAll models above SDS2000X Plus have user definable trace colors....an infinite palette.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 10:10:24 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2025, 01:48:21 pmIt would be more important to me whether the scope has enough “horsepower” to smoothly render the scenario outlined than any debate about the display.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 11:03:56 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 10, 2025, 10:10:24 pmprecisely - what good it is to have fhd or lets assume 4k built in screen if it will need to capture more points (more GS/s necessary) to get more points to make proper image then interpolate that and process and generate like 3-4 times more points (rounding) to go to fhd and 16 times more to go to 4k when it will cause the wfm/s drop way more severe to number of points to process increase? (and all that require more mem to store/process/etc so next source of lags and sync problems...For me it is already abig drop in real wfm/s when you turn on some options and try to measure some things or use some scale that is not nice for the scope processing and it drops really low from advertised parameters (even Keysights fancy chips with ASICs are dropping low).Question is this - what one needs/uses scope for? to observe some low freq signal that is pretty constant or really trying to find some random rare erratic problems that really occur?Cause one can not have both inside and if close they usually cost like one or few kg of gold bars

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:30:25 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2025, 08:45:53 pmIn XY mode? I never saw anything to change the XY mode trace color.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 09:10:23 pm
content: Full manual avaible:https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Oszilloskope/SDS5000X-HD/4-Manuals/SDS5000X-HD_SDS5000L_Manual.pdfIn this manual, you can discover something that no other Siglent Scope offers.A slightly different GUI....

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 09:16:10 pm
content: Ah, I guess I can see they haven't realized the benefit of a good external clock source yet.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 09:23:20 pm
content: I don't quite follow you...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 09:43:35 pm
content: 999.8893Hz in their screenshot. I assume they had 1kHz set.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 09:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 03, 2025, 09:16:10 pmDunno what pictures you've been looking at.When/if you need it to support timenuttery it's available:

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 09:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 03, 2025, 09:55:10 pmlol, I know it has a ref input. That's one of the reasons I wanted this scope. My point was that they didn't bother to use it in the screenshot from the manual that Martin posted.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 10:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 03, 2025, 09:43:35 pm110 mHz...That would be 110 ppm, but "unfortunately" the internal time base has a deviation of 2 ppm.If the input signal had actually been a highly precise 1 kHz, it would not have been possible to detect any deviation due to the resolution of the counter.Or, to put it another way, the frequency displayed corresponds to the frequency actually supplied, regardless of whether the reference is external or internal.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 10:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 03, 2025, 10:23:47 pmThat just tells me they need to utilize the external ref on the signal source as well.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 11:03:53 pm
content: Ifyou realize you're riding a dead horse, get off...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 11:10:00 pm
content: I was just teasing, but I'll ride a zombie horse if I want to.