EEVblog #752 - Original Sony Walkman TPS-L2 Teardown - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 06:29:17 am
content: What's inside the original 1979 Sony Walkman TPS-L2?The product that started the personal music revolution.Service manual:http://freeservicemanuals.info/servicemanuals/download/Sony/tps-l2.pdf

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 07:23:59 am
content: I had one of those (Sony Walkman), but I think it was silver color, but I think I got mine in 1986 or so.

author: pplaninsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 08:29:22 am
content: Very nice! Thanks!Check out these prices:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-Sony-TPS-L2-WALKMAN-1979-cassette-player-/121418292176http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xtps+l2.TRS0&_nkw=tps+l2&_sacat=0These seem to be the later model - branded walkman. Yours should be valued higher as it is really 'the first' ....

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 08:31:01 am
content: Happy memories from when Sony were good. I only threw my collection of TDK mix tapes away last year because I suddenly realized that I had nothing to play them on.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:01:55 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on June 10, 2015, 08:31:01 amI still have a drawer full of them (tapes) including some ZX Spectrum tapes, not sure why I keep them because my double deck cassette player has been dead and gone for many years, I don't even have an amp on the living room, it's on the basement with the speakers all stowed away since 2009 from my last move.Previous amps where Sony, my last one is JVC, but as I said, it's not even plugged in, it even has a dongle that will stream music from my PC (really just acting as a speaker because it's old tech).But we do have a Victrola (no electricity at all) that we use every now and then and it's around 100 years old and still works.Similar if not identical to this one from the internet (I would take a picture but don't want to wake the wife up):

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:08:53 am
content: Was the (very visible) "mic" just a marketing trick to make people in shops think it could record sound?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:12:03 am
content: it was to talk to the other person since it did support dual stereo jacks. So if the music was too loud you could talk to them, same thing if used on a motorcycle, but only one person controlled the mike.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:16:12 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 10, 2015, 09:12:03 amOK, it wasn't *just* a marketing trick, but how many people would think it could record based on looking at it?I'm sure the other uses were dreamed up after they figured that adding a recording head was too expensive and the boss had already said "Itmusthave a mic!!!". I doubt the music was ever 'too loud' to talk to a person 1m away and as an intercom it's almost useless because the other person can't reply.

author: SpiderElectronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:27:57 am
content: **OOPS**

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:35:46 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 10, 2015, 09:16:12 amAs far as I remember, and I might be totally wrong, the read head was the same thing as the write head. But recording cassette players/recorders had an erase head so during recording it would erase the tape prior of recording.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:43:46 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 10, 2015, 09:35:46 amYep.The read/write head would need added high-current drive circuitry for recording and you'd need an extra 'erase' head.It would be expensive to do if only a small percentage of your customers would actually use it.I can imagine the chain of command: High up pointy-haired boss saying it must have mic. Lower down bean counter doing the marketing math. Engineers coming up with a solution that kept them both happy.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 10:13:46 am
content: Would be fun to compare it to a player from when the cassette was finally dead, like the Panasonic RQ-SX series. Those were barely bigger than the cassette itself. They used a gumstick battery, but came with a screw-on adapter to use a AA battery for extended life.Found a teardown of one:http://vintage-technics.ru/Eng-Panasonic_RQ-SX97F.htm

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 11:30:38 am
content: The motor on that^^^ is a work of art! ;-)

author: moemoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 01:10:44 pm
content: This reminds my of my Aiwa HS-G08, the flagship in 1985, available in three nice colors:http://www.stereo2go.com/topic/aiwa-g08-three-flavorsSome of the features they managed to throw into the device only 6 years after Sony's first walkman:- Auto reverse- IC control logic- Dolby- 5 band EQ- Remote Control- Double sided, both sides populated PCBSadly the belt of mine disintegrated, forming a greasy black undefinable paste covering the whole mechanics, and it seems that I can't take it any further apart without serious desoldering.I think the J-08 was the same model but without Equalizer, sohttp://www.stereo2go.com/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/263906035089896803/filePointer/442795680608968290/fodoid/442795680608968285/Aiwa%20HS-J08%20-%20J500%20Service%20Manual.pdfcould be the right service manual.Note the 4 track head, there was just no space inside this really small device for any rotating mechanism.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 04:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: moemoe on June 10, 2015, 01:10:44 pmThe soldering on that thing is awful!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 04:32:48 pm
content: Meh, pretty typical wave-soldered SMD.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 07:02:55 pm
content: Easy to replace that belt set, though you will need a screwdriver with a JIS tip to undo those 2 stuck down screws holding the capstan base bearing. After that the rest of the rubber parts looks in good condition, so they will run for a while longer before you have to replace them. Might still all be available from Sony as spares or as a kit, though you will pay for it. The kit however does include the felting pads for the take up spool clutch, which does wear.I have some later versions somewhere........That manual funny enough is not atypical of older 1980's and 1990's eastern made equipment, I bought manuals ( yes actual paper manuals with either 3 colour print or full colour Pantone images inside, often with a fold out A2 circuit diagram in 4 colours inside the middle, and often with multiple colour pages or detailed exploded diagrams of assembly and service instructions) for things like TV sets, VCR's, cassette decks, CD players, radios and even washing machines.The quality of the manuals was very good, but as the manufacturers moved away from quality to cheap junk the manuals dropped both in detail and in quality, often they now are barely more than a copy of the instruction booklet ( often only a poor copy as well) and a block diagram, with the fault finding going down a tree to "change XXX board" at best, and barely a diagram of how it goes together.The old manuals from Goldstar, JVC, Aiwa, Technics and Matsushita were often very well made works of art.

author: Porto
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 07:13:23 pm
content: Was not at all a Sony man, found Aiwa has better sound and had more functions.My quite expensive Aiwa HS-JX505 from the early '90s, fully recapped, fully working (shown here with optional 2x AA battery pack unit):

author: mushroom
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:33:45 pm
content: It was too expensive for me at this time...But later, I got (and still have) a Walkman DD-100 Boodo Khan. The sound was fanstastic, nearly as good as the 19" Marantz cassette deck I used at this time (an anchor boat) ! The same year, I also got the Discman 1 (lead battery powered !). It was my first CD reader, and I used it for 10 years with my HiFi set... (1986).

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 10:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: mushroom on June 10, 2015, 09:33:45 pmStill have my discman too, it's a sony d-151, works fine too

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 10:58:33 pm
content: Wow. When I was a kid I couldn't afford this, so I got the Candle (JIL) knock-off with very similar looks and coloring, but very inferior materials and functions.It was the kind of cassette player with play/forward only, you had to flip the cassette over to rewind.For some reason, the radio was very good though.The most fun thing I ever did with it was cheating on my history exam in high school: I wore a long-sleeve shirt and had an earbud go up that sleeve, and I listened to a tape of me reading the history book...

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 07:17:09 am
content: The Hotline function was there so you could listen to someone talking to you without stopping the cassette; that's why they removed the pause button. The case was repurposed from one of their dictaphone devices, hence why it had a microphone in the first place.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 08:04:07 am
content: Quote from: hikariuk on June 11, 2015, 07:17:09 amDid it ever have one to be removed?What would be the point of adding a 'pause' button to a Walkman? Waste some battery power?(Or indeed any cassette player - it's useless on a device which always starts up where it left off!)

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 10:01:53 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 11, 2015, 08:04:07 amThat's a very good point. I'm trying to remember where I read it now.*searches their browser history*Ah hah, it's onhttp://www.walkmancentral.com/products/tps-l2Apparently the TCM-600, the dictaphone type device they used as the basis for the TPS-L2, had an electrical pause which just removed power from the motor, but left everything else energized.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 11:17:38 am
content: Quote from: hikariuk on June 11, 2015, 10:01:53 amI still don't see how being d4rived from a dictation machine is an excuse for a fake 'mic' input on it. Almost everything else on the case has changed, removing the 'mic' wouldn't be a problem.The only answer that makes sense (to me) is a Pointy Haired Boss insisting on it. Maybe the boss had a TCM-600.Quote from: hikariuk on June 11, 2015, 10:01:53 amIt's (slightly) different on a recording device.Pause mode on a recording device will keep the automatic recording-level circuitry active so it starts up quickly. It also lets you look at the blinkenLEDs to see if your external microphone is working, etc.

author: RupertGo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 03:34:29 pm
content: Ah, I remember when this was launched - it really was a big deal. As well as introducing the idea of portable music (Sony didn't actually invent the concept, and ended up having to settle on a patent dispute with the real creator of what was called the Stereobelt -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereobelt) , it was the first widespread use of 3.5mm stereo plugs and sockets, and of rare-earth headphones. My first portablec cassette player, which I think I bought around 1982, was a Radioshack model that, typically, had cruddy headphones and a 6.3mm jack. But at least I could afford it. Had various different ones after that; my favorite was (I think) a Sanyo with FM/AM radio and record function, but I also had a ridiculously nice tiny Hitachi with soft controls and auto-everything. Like VCRs, there was a great deal of very sophisticated high-tolerance mechanical engineering in this sector, and it's a shame that it's all been subsumed into software.The WM-10 that's in the promo video at the start is discussed in some detail herehttp://www.walkmancentral.com/products/wm-10- lots of serious engineering involved. Including a DC-DC converter on a flexible board to make everything run from a single AA battery. <DAVE MODE ON>Hmmmmm.... <DAVE MODE OFF>. That sounds curiously familiar!

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 03:59:54 pm
content: Quote from: RupertGo on June 11, 2015, 03:34:29 pmIf I could find my WM-10 I'd do a teardown. It's neat how they managed to make it the same size as a cassette box. But alas all I can find is its belt holster.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 05:29:11 pm
content: I picked up a double-tape deck stereo radio am/fm quartz tuner amp system with a couple of big speakers recently for free. An old guy down the street was dumping the whole lot, plus a bunch of other junk.Anyways, I had a couple of tapes so I stuck them in and started playing them. After a few minutes the sound started getting "warbly" and you could hear the tape speed up then down and inconsistent pitch.... Finally it looks like the rubber belts gave in *which I confirmed later upon opening up the unit*. Unfortunately that was the Achilles heal of those decks.So for now I have an over-sized amp/quartz radio system which I can plug AUX into. But the decks don't work. I don't think I will have much luck sourcing belts to fit it. And even if I did, all my tapes were transferred to CD and then MP3 long ago. Obsolete technology for analog audio at least.Nevermind the fact that my original tape deck which I used to record most of my tapes was out of alignment to begin with.... So most of my cassette tapes only play well when I tweak the head alignment to an angled Azimuth. Go figure! I know some things have nostalgic value but for me I was so glad when tapes got superceded by CD and then MP3, and never looked back.Now I do have some old Atari cassettes that have BASIC programs recorded on them. Fortunately I transferred the audio to WAVE a while back and can use a program to analyze the WAVE file and reconstitute the binary data from the signal (like a modem) so those crappy programs aren't lost forever.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 04:57:54 am
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on June 10, 2015, 10:13:46 amThere was a ridiculous Japanese made cassette player that was smaller than the cassette in two dimensions, and clipped around the cassette with it hanging out on 3 sides. It also had an inline remote control and digital radio tuner etc, the screw on AA adaptor dwarfed it! Cant find any photos online it may require a native Japanese speaker to navigate to one.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 08:20:15 am
content: Quote from: Someone on June 12, 2015, 04:57:54 amThere was a ridiculous Japanese made cassette player that was smaller than the cassette in two dimensions, and clipped around the cassette with it hanging out on 3 sides.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 04:29:06 pm
content: I couldn't find that tape player, but found this:

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 09:13:44 am
content: I can see why it got nicknamed a vinyl killer.

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 05:06:27 pm
content: is it this one ?seems to be a recorder, and it has a FM radio "inlay" you put in place of the cassette....

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 11:55:55 pm
content: Similar design, and I remember those style with the radio insert but not quite as small as the one I'm remembering (had integrated FM radio and possibly digital transport controls too?).

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 08:48:41 am
content: "Originally released at $150. That's $488 in today's money."Dave, where did you conjure those figures up from? That's a multiplication factor of3.25since 1979 until today. So what to do with such claims? Tear them apart!Based upon the inflation rate by the Reserve Bank of Australia, a basket of good and services purchased in 1979 for $150 would cost $665 in 2014. That takes many factors into account, including the lower cost of electrical goods and furniture. In 1979, we made most of our furniture in Australia and electronics came out of Australia or Japan where the manufacturing cost was much higher than in than in China today.http://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualDecimal.htmlIn any case, that is a factor of4.4 times.I think the fairest way is to see what percentage of a salary would buy the Walkman then, and what percentage of a salary would that amount be today. That is how long would you have to work then compared to now to buy the same item.So let's look at salary growth since around 1979: The average EE salary in 1979 was around $13K per annum. The average salary of an EE today is roughly 124K per annum, based uponhttp://www.engineeringjobs.com.au/engineering-industry-salary-information(Seems a tad high). That means the salary has multiplied by roughly10 timeseven though EE salaries have languished since the dot com crash of 2002.The average EE would have to work 24 hours to earn the $150 back in 1979. Today, with your $488 figure, the average EE would only have to work 8 hours. In fact, 24 hours today earns the average electronic engineer in Australia $1430, not $488.One can conclude the Sony Walkman cost a lot more in 1979, than "$488 in today's money".

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 02:57:38 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 14, 2015, 08:48:41 amOr you can just usehttp://www.measuringworth.com/australiacompare/and get:If you want to compare the value of a $150.00 Commodity in 1979 there are two choices. In 2013 the relative:real price of that commodity is $669.90income value of that commodity is $1,182.00

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 05:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: hikariuk on June 14, 2015, 02:57:38 pmSo ... something like the price of an iPad/iPhone today.(And would probably appeal to the same sort of customer)

author: razvitm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 12, 2018, 02:25:09 pm
content: Someone please take a look at the detailed schematic and tell me which cap do i need to replace with another one with lower capacity in order to extend the frequency responce of this walkman. I bet there's a low pass filter somewhere which cuts above 12khz. I really believe the head can go at least up to 16khz flat. Thank you.