Back in the day... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 04:57:09 pm
content: This is the boiler plate on the back of an old Triplett 3432A sig. gen.An American made instrument with only CSA certification. I guess that was when the US and Canada were buddies. Seems like so long ago now..

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:36:09 pm
content: LOL

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:39:47 pm
content: That, too, was back in the day... 😉😉

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:12:55 pm
content: I think CSA certification was required for sales to Canada.Most electrical stuff back then had both CSA and UL certification, which had almost identical requirements.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:04:09 pm
content: My point was that the UL certification is/was missing. Perhaps this was a Canadian only model.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on April 09, 2025, 10:04:09 pmIt’s hard to find the details, but apparently CSA is recognized internationally (including the US), while UL is recognized only in the US.At present, there are “CSA/US” and “C/CSA/US” marks certified by CSA for Canadian and US, or worldwide, respectively.

author: D.Burnette
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:29:22 pm
content: Cool! I'm a certification nerd, so seeing old marks is always fun.The NRTL program started in 1988, thanks to MET suing OSHA (long story:https://incompliancemag.com/lenny-and-goliath-a-modern-fable/). I believe CSA got recognized in 1995.Before the NRTL program and before OSHA in 1971, I believe it was mainly on the insurance companies to dictate to their customers (or to the manufacturers) what the acceptable certification bodies were. At least at the portable equipment level...The NEC is a whole other ballgame.I fired up an old toy steam engine over Christmas. Had a mark from TUV Nord on it, which was neat (pic attached).

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:36:08 pm
content: Yes, UL = Underwriters Laboratories was established by the insurance companies in Chicago.Their current location is in Northbrook, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago) where they have a large campus.For a short time, I commuted from the South Side of Chicago to my job in Northbrook, while they were demolishing the original building along my route on Ohio Street.Since the old building had a lab to test large bank safes against explosives, the demolition progressed slowly.

author: D.Burnette
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:43:21 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 09, 2025, 10:21:02 pmIt gets a little complex with Canadian-US certifications, and our northern friends use kind of a hybrid between the US NRTL system and the EU IECEE CB scheme. The Canadian certification scheme is run by Standards Council of Canada and accredits certification labs to ISO 17065. There is (for the time being) extensive mutual recognition and overlapping accreditation. Many US labs are also recognized by Canada, and CSA is recognized in the US as an NRTL. You see joint marks: cULus, cMETus, cNus, cETLus, cCSAus, Bureau Veritas, FM etc. indicating the product complies with a standard harmonized between the US and Canada, and the lab is accredited or recognized by Canada. UL is one of those recognized by both Canada and US OSHA. In a modern context, if it were just Canadian-approved (very rare), you would see CSA only or maybe cUL or cETL. Here is an example Canadian cert:https://scc-ccn.ca/system/files/2024-05/asb_soa_10022-scope_v15_2024-02-19_en.pdfOP's device is old enough that I don't know what the approval scheme was at that time, much less how they interacted internationally....Could have entirely depended on the vagaries of the local inspector too...I mean, it still sometimes is, but much more likely back then

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 09, 2025, 10:36:08 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong but I think that UL certification was simply an insurance company standard and was never an actual requirement of any government agency.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:01:18 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on April 09, 2025, 10:52:00 pmI agree, but some municipalities added UL certification to their local electrical code.In grad school at the University of Chicago, we had some conflicts with the City about electronic equipment.IIRC, some of our Hewlett-Packard equipment was not certified, and none of our Heath (factory-assembled) was.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 11, 2025, 06:28:45 am
content: I recently started using a brand new series of APP connectors, they are CSA certified as well.