Pro EE Industry Jargon: What "unspoken/understood" terms did you struggle with? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jakeisprobably
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 04:50:30 pm
content: What "unspoken/understood" terms did you struggle with?For a self taught beginner like myself, it took me a while to learn the Pro EE's distaste for adding a decimal on a schematic. I had no idea that 3.3k means the same thing as 3k3.I also had a lightbulb moment when I finally learned to add "2S" before any transistor part number that starts with a letter (ex."A965" = "2SA965") for a much better chance of finding the correct information.What unspoken EE industry Jargon or terminology did you have trouble with?

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 06:26:09 pm
content: I was just having a conversation about this. In classical electronics the anode of a diode is +, yet on bridge rectifiers the cathode is marked +. That has to mess some people up.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 07:27:52 pm
content: DNP or Do Not Populate.Also, HVAC does not mean High Voltage Alternating Current BTW.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2016, 08:03:40 pm
content: .1mf does not mean what the SI system would have you expect when seen on an old US schematic.Regards, Dan.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 12:17:41 am
content: Quote from: Seekonk on July 23, 2016, 06:26:09 pmBut it isn't. An anode is an anode and a cathode is a cathode. Whether either of them should be connected to plus, minus or anything else depends entirely on the circuit.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 12:25:10 am
content: THI wondered about this for a while wondering what exotic process it was describing - until I picked up enough information from contextual use to Google "TH resistor".It was "Through Hole". Nothing exotic at all ... in fact a very familiar old friend that I had known all my life.

author: derGoldstein
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 02:10:10 am
content: Text on *large* SMT parts. You have the room to print "10uH" on a 8mm x 8mm inductor... Why would you print "100" on it?? (I know it's for consistency... It's still annoying)

author: rob.manderson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 05:40:26 pm
content: Years ago at HP we used to refer to the 'gazinta' (never saw it written down so I'm guessing spelling). Took a while to figure out they meant the input (goes into)!Strangely enough we never seemed to talk about the 'comezoutta'.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 05:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: Seekonk on July 23, 2016, 06:26:09 pmEr...what on earth are you talking about? On both diodes and bridge rectifiers the terminal marked + is where the positive pixies congregate.In general, you and everyone else will be far less confused if you never, ever use the words "anode" or "cathode". Refer instead to "the positive terminal" and "the negative terminal". Precise, accurate and unambiguous.(For example: take any ordinary lithium ion cell. One terminal is marked + and one terminal is marked -. Which one is the anode and which one is the cathode?)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 11:04:33 am
content: Quote from: rob.manderson on July 24, 2016, 05:40:26 pmI had an arithmetic explanation given to me ....2 gazinta 4 twice, 4 gazinta 12 three times.....

author: Synthetase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 11:52:55 am
content: Quote from: dmills on July 23, 2016, 08:03:40 pmYes, I did a double take the first time I saw that when pulling apart old audio gear.

author: andtfoot
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 12:23:55 pm
content: Quote from: Synthetase on July 25, 2016, 11:52:55 amSo whatdoesit mean then?

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 01:35:00 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 24, 2016, 05:56:21 pmI'm far too long out of school to remember or care about arcane diode designations. Even anodeand cathode should be relegated to the dustbin except in the SCR case. But a diode is a PN deviceand the anode is technically designated as positive. Google diode symbol and half the diodespictured have the anode marked positive. Pictured is a circuit board from about 1980 when PC boardreal estate was cheap. I have no association with this board. Note the + on the anode. If thisbare board was handed out to be populated with only the designation + D9, half the people herewould place the banded end at the + side. Sorry about picture quality, my USB microscope recentlycrapped out.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 01:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: andtfoot on July 25, 2016, 12:23:55 pmmf, or MFD stands for micro farad, not milli farad."Back in the day" there were only two capacitance multipliers, micro farad, and pico farad. So if you saw 0.001 you knew it meant 1nF!Or because "nano" wasn't a thing back then, you would actually call it "Point double oh one mike"c

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 06:28:25 pm
content: Quote from: Seekonk on July 25, 2016, 01:35:00 pmOK, I get what you're saying now.This is how I have always looked at it:When a diode is conducting, the terminal marked + will be more positive than the terminal marked -.When a bridge rectifier is conducting, the terminal marked + will be more positive than the terminal marked -.It has just dawned on me that the positive pixies flowintothe + terminal on a diode, and the positive pixies flowout ofthe + terminal on a bridge rectifier. But until you brought it up, it had never occurred to me to be confused by this, and indeed I hadn't even noticed the contradiction between the two.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 06:43:02 pm
content: looking into its DC terminals, a bridge rectifier is a power source. Looking into its terminals, a diode is a power sink. So already you know that the relationship between +/- and anode/cathode MUST be reversed between those types of components, because the only way to swap power supply with power consumption is to reverse the relationship between polarity and current flow. Similarly for any type of battery, the relationship MUST reverse when charging/discharging. Otherwise KCL doesn't make any sense whatsoever.Anode and cathode aren't "confusing terms": they are the ONLY terms for describing current flow. "Positive and negative terminal" have NO relationship to current flow.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 08:11:52 pm
content: Never heard of a comesouta, but almost all of my circuits and test gear had a gazinta and a gazouta. Preferences on numbers vary with different parts of the industry. 3.3K would be fine some places, gets you run out of town in others. Same thing on capacitors. In many places there are only two multipliers, pico which gives the unit pronounced "puf" (pF) and micro leading to the "muf" (mF).

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 08:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2016, 01:42:20 pmmF and MFD are the two of the more obnoxious units in engineering use, besides slugs and a couple of others that escape me right now. I still see them occasionally and hate them.Anode and cathode are just never going to go away. Too many industries rely on those definitions. I remember that cathode is (-) because I know cathode ray tubes shoot electrons to make pixels. How's that for a circuitous mnemonic?

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 09:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2016, 01:42:20 pmMy dad who is into electronics repair for over fifty years never uses and seem to refuse to use nano farads.On the other hand he is not alone, I've came across plenty not that old (USA) schematics that still don't use nano's.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 09:12:45 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on July 25, 2016, 08:37:14 pmBut often the cathode is (+), which is why it can be confusing...

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 09:58:00 pm
content: More like EE peeves:current flow and electron flow, especially in SPICEis the mark designating positive or negative?cathode vs anode, long lead or short?The red wire is negativeThe dot signifies?EBC, ECB, GDS?slightly different package variants from standard ie: SC70 and mini-SC70I/O's or pins labeled IOC10O_P and OIC11OI0_Ntiny poor silkscreen printed on top of other tiny poor silkscreen on a tiny board with no documentation0402 LEDs with the cathode marking on the bottom of the partfinding pin 79 on a 200 pin .015" pitch connectorproprietary "damm" connectorsRoHs solderOh, and my favorite......"All ya gotta do is"

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 10:21:16 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 25, 2016, 09:12:45 pmFor those occasions, I simply flip the TV upside down and watch the image in the mirror, with the VCR running backwards.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2016, 04:59:46 am
content: Quote from: The Soulman on July 25, 2016, 09:10:19 pmThen there's the serious old-timers who use "uuF" (micro-micro farads) instead of pF. I've seen that in manuals for FPS-18 radars (published ca 1956).My personal peeve: markings on surface-mount LEDs never seem consistent. I resort to testing each one with a DMM before soldering.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2016, 06:01:17 am
content: Quote from: grouchobyte on July 25, 2016, 09:58:00 pmFYI, sources are always "from to". So for,I1 0 1 1.0R1 1 0 1.0Node 1 is at +1.0V, because 1A flows into it.Or for a V source, its current property is negative what you expect, because you're measuring the current into (then out of) the device, and a source is simply reverse that of a load (which is consistent).Tim

author: jakeisprobably
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2016, 09:07:22 pm
content: Noob question, Why hasn't the anode/cathode positive/negative current/electron flow terminology gotten redefined to add clarity and specificity in the English language?When it comes to words and language, it's all just made up and evolving anyways. If you just have to "understand this means that or refer to contextual descriptives" what's the point?To me it's like describing the left and right sides of an automobile, it's a pointless, useless descriptor without knowing what the intended perspective of the statement is. Is the statement made from inside the vehicle or out. On the other hand ask a sailor what side of a ship they are referring to and you will have a clear descriptive answer. So what does it take to get the EE community on board and away from idiots in cars? (hypothetically of course)

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2016, 09:52:42 pm
content: Electrical current is the effective direction of the movement of charge. Electrons are negatively charged, by definition, so the meaning of current cannot be "redefined" to be the movement of electrons. Besides, not all electrical currents are composed of moving electrons, that is a specific feature of metal wires and other n-enhanced conduction band materials. Many materials of interest to electrical engineers do not conduct by electrons.Also see the discussion around "Does current flow through a capacitor"https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-486-does-current-flow-through-a-capacitor/

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2016, 10:43:58 pm
content: A term I struggled with for a long time is "IT". I resolved the struggle by eventually accepting that it's an exceedingly vague term without a precise definition

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 01:14:00 am
content: IT is straightforward, I think. The same thing used to be called DP for data processing and involved lots of polyester suits.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 01:54:38 am
content: Quote from: jakeisprobably on July 26, 2016, 09:07:22 pmThe automobile question is answered by convention - and it is the same convention used in referring to the human body. Left and right are defined as being with respect to the occupant in the normal orientation,not the observer.As for the diode/bridge rectifier question, it's afunctionaldifference, not one of standards.The notation for a single diode is based on the functional requirement of one side positive and the other negative (relatively speaking) for the device to conduct.A bridge rectifier, however, IS NOT A SINGLE DEVICE. It has four devices contained within a single package connected in a specific pattern to provide a specific function. That function is to generate DC which, by common sense, is best designated by indicating which lead provides the positive connection and which lead provides the negative. If you still feel it is incorrect labelling, please explain to me why there are two tilde characters (~) representing AC input on a "diode"?In fact, a bridge rectifier is actually an integrated circuit. Heaven help us if we start labelling pins on other ICs based on the circuit element attached to them...

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 01:04:25 pm
content: That is what half the people who visit EEVblog want. Heaven to help them.

author: magetoo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 04:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: jakeisprobably on July 23, 2016, 04:50:30 pmImpedance. As a mostly self-taught hobbyist I'm still not sure I really have a full understanding of everything that's implied, but at least some idea of what it means in the specific contexts where I see it come up.Lots of things are like that - recognizing from context thatthisthing usually means the stuffhereis doingthat otherthing. I can't remember ever learning most of it, but apparently some of it stuck.Which reminds me of something else: conventions for how schematics are drawn / laid out. At one point it was all a jumble, but now it makes sense. (And the schematics I tried to draw are just embarrassing andso obviously wrong.)

author: magetoo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 04:23:12 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on July 25, 2016, 08:37:14 pmI thought I was the only one who thought of it like that.Quote from: LabSpokane on July 25, 2016, 10:21:16 pmWon't you get the colors inverted too, now that it shoots positrons instead?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 05:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: magetoo on July 27, 2016, 04:21:06 pmFor anyone needing ideas, this might help:http://seventransistorlabs.com/tmoranwms/Elec_Circuit_Rules.htmlif a bit boring...AoE2/3 explains it better, including with examples.Tim

author: jakeisprobably
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 08:17:44 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 27, 2016, 01:54:38 amThis is true in the context most people are accustomed to refering to things like every day directions etc. I spent a few years doing autobody repairs mostly for used car dealerships. When a car Porter brings a vehicle to the shop for repair and I had to ascertain exactly what the lot manager did or did not want to repair over the phone, assumed convention loses accounts aka gets you fired. I learned the hard way. There is no right or left side of a vehicle only driver's and passenger's side descriptives. Assume= (make an)ass(out of)u&me.With the diode vs rectifier terminals, isn't the problem simply referring to the part as a "diode rectifier" in a way that directly associates it with the function of a single diode? It's an Integrated Circuit Rectifier not a diode rectifier. Terminology ambiguity problem solved right?

author: Synthetase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 10:47:17 am
content: Quote from: jakeisprobably on July 29, 2016, 08:17:44 pmSurely that makes the assumption of a left-hand drive vehicle though? On the subject, I've never heard anyone use any other term for the different driving positions, it's always been either right- or left-hand drive.Apparently naval pilots use right and left to refer to their aircraft (from the occupant's perspective, facing forward) as using port or starboard can be confused with talking about the ship.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 11:42:54 am
content: Interesting, I had thought port and starboard were pretty much unambiguous (That being rather the point), but I guess that ships crews get so used to it in terms of their own ship that there could possibly be confusion.The other fun one for this is the pronunciation of the phonetic alphabet, "Niner" rather then "Nine" for example to differentiate from "Nein" (German for No), the whole thing is actually very well thought out.Regards, Dan.