4500AS development kit software? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: oddbondboris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 06:07:50 am
content: I bought a "L3 thermaleye 4500" camera which appears to be a prototype of some sort since it has a virtex4 on it and a lot of bodgewiresit uses the same pinout as this corehttp://spi-wholesale.com/shop/l3-thermal-eye-4500as-core-320x240-50-deg-397/it works fine but theres no way to make it shutter to clean up the image, does anyone have a line on the software for configuring this core over usb?

author: oddbondboris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2018, 03:40:34 pm
content: Found the usb spec in the forums, wrote a usb driver and have image grabbing working over usb, seems to definitely not be standard as some of the return formats are completely different and some commands are completely missingif anyone has a 3500as, 3600as, or 4500as and would like to run some tests i can post the code, its libusb1 and python2.7i cant get the overlay working at all on the camera except for the greyscale at the bottom you can turn on from set_power_user_control but it does seem to offer some radiometric features at least in the specattached is a usb grabbed image, takes almost a second and forces shutter every time it runs but good for debugging, next job is building a card to read the data off the digital expansion port so i can get more than 1fps digital out of it

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2018, 04:50:53 pm
content: Hiya,I would be interested in the driver.Did you get my mssage regarding configuration software ?Please PM me your email address.Fraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2019, 12:49:01 am
content: Hi, does anyone have GUI Software for 4500AS?

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 03:26:49 pm
content: I want to make a cable to connect 4500AS to a computer. I have already cable for high power+video out which came with a core. All voltage return (-) pins are connected already. If I want to add USB connection can I use pins 7 (USB_VBAS), 9(USB_D-) & 10(USB_D+) without connecting ground pin on a USB connector?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2019, 07:13:11 pm
content: The D+, D- and 0V are required. VBUS is normally optional. In some systems the VBUS is used to tell the system that the USB cable is connected..USB is differential signalling but the 0V screen is recommended.Fraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2019, 12:04:12 am
content: Thanks Fraser! It looks like I’ll need to connect pins 7-10 for USB connection with optional VBUS connection.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2019, 01:27:50 pm
content: In case you missed it in the manual. Many of these cores require the composite video output to be terminated with 75 Ohms before they will output video. This is done because some cores are used in cameras that contain an internal viewfinder and this is switched off when an external video connection is detected via the termination resistance of the external screen. Most monitors are terminated with 75 Ohms but people looking for a video signal using an oscilloscope can get caught out by this termination requirement.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2019, 07:26:49 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on October 05, 2019, 01:27:50 pmSome Analog Devices video IC's do this whether you want it to or not.Annoying at timesBill

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2019, 11:36:07 pm
content: I want to share my progress on my little project. I was able to access 4500AS with drivers for 3500AS and Windows XP laptop. Big thanks and credit to Fraser for sharing with me CD with 3500AS drivers!I installed drivers and GUI on Windows XP laptop. Camera was detected as 3500AS model and at the end of an installation gave me error with code 10 (this device cannot start). I've run Software GUI anyway to try if it see the camera. 2 of 4 modules of the Software GUI detected the camera! Cool! :-) I was able to flip image upside down (for my installation needs) and removed temperature bar. I also wanted to play with a zoom and brightness/contrast but unfortunately this options are not available in a GUI for 3500AS cores. These extensive features are available only in the Software GUI for 4500AS cores. So I'm still looking for a Software GUI for 4500AS cores.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 12:26:52 pm
content: I am sorry that the GUI was only partially helpful in this case. I connected to a L3 X50 scope using it as that unit uses the 3600AS core. I was disappointed to find that only some of the 3600AS configuration options were present, despite indications in the manual that all should appear. I fear that some cores identify themselves to the GUI as a model with certain features locked outI was specifically looking to modify the “Electronic Zoom” setting as I believe the X50 has it set to x1.5 at boot to reduce the resolution provided to the user. That feature sub menu is absent when I connect the GUI.I have looked into obtaining the Thermal Eye GUI in the past. I approached Raytheon, L3, SPi and Lumasense. Only Raytheon replied and referred me to SPi for the GUI. SPi appear unwilling to communicate with anyone located outside the USA, which is partially understandable but I also hear that they are not a very communicative company in generalSPi May, or may not have the required GUI. I note that the GUI software is not listed as part of the Thermal Eye 4500AS package that they are currently selling in their Warehouse deals. From my research, it appears that the Thermal Eye GUI and integration guide was a chargeable accessory from L3As a side note, the L3 X series thermal scopes were retired but the build rights were passed to another company that started making the X320 and X640 scopes. These were identical in appearance to the L3 unit’s but contained the later L3 cores that provided 320 x 240 and 640 x 480 pixels. The core in these was likely an L3 Thermal Eye 4000AS and/or a L3 Thermal Eye Nano. The scopes both came with a GUI to access the core features but, from what I have seen, it was a customised (dumbed down) version of the L3 GUI. It might provide the required access to Brightness and Contrast though ? Such an adjustment will only be available in a “Manual” operating mode as the cores normally operate in the full “Auto” mode that sets the brightness and contrast (Level and Span in reality) according to the scene contents.I will find the details of the X320 and X640 scopes for you in case the company still exists and will provide the GUI to you. The I/O on the scopes is a direct USB connection to the core.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 12:28:37 pm
content: EOTech have the build rights for the X series scopes and were supplying the US Military with the unit’s.https://www.eotechinc.com/thermal-vision-deviceshttps://www.eotechinc.com/thermal-vision-devices/model-x320xphttps://www.eotechinc.com/thermal-vision-devices/model-x640X320 Sales Videohttps://youtu.be/42eta5qzbSMThe X320 user manual that details and shows screen shots of their GUI for configuring the scope. A button input on the core is used for setting selection after configuration. It contains the Zoom setting. I would love to get my hands on that GUI but it is USA support only.https://www.eotechinc.com/sites/default/files/manuals/X320-X640%20User%20Manual%205-2015.pdfFraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 04:43:15 pm
content: Very interesting! Thanks again for digging so deep, Fraser! :-) I've also contacted SPi twice but have not received any reply from them.Opticsplanet had a listing for 4500AS GUI but they out of stock so you are right that they sold SW GUI as a separate ad-don.Do you think I can try contact EOTech as I live in USA? I'm sure they will NOT be open to help me get SW GUI because I'm not their customer. We are also not sure if 4500AS cores are compatible with their custom SW GUI. I'll try to find some contacts on Facebook or Linkdin for someone who works in EOTech and will try to contact them via Facebook.

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 04:52:29 pm
content: I also have an idea to look up for listings on eBay who sells used EOTech X320 and X640 models and ask them to copy CD and sell a copy to me for $10-20

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 04:53:29 pm
content: Sadly the Thermal Eye 4000AS core is now quite old (in thermal core terms) so it is very hard to find much support information. EOTech are worth a try as they may have taken over the Thermal Eye core support from L3 ? Looking at changes in the thermal core division that originated at Raytheon, it gets hard to track who currently owns the rights on the cores and what, if any, support still exists. I know that the Bullard Eclipse Camera contained a Thermal Eye Nano core but that changed to a DRS core recently, possibly due to discontinuation of the Thermal Eye core.Software is always a tricky area when hunting for core information and support. You can strike lucky and find documentation on a long forgotten Server, but Software is usually better protected and not easily found. I have got lucky on Sales Agents servers more than once though !Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 04:55:13 pm
content: Regarding eBay sales of the latest X320 and X640, they are rare. It is mostly X100, x150 and X200 scopes on eBay over the past few years. I have tried to buy copies of software from camera sellers in the past. Not one has responded in a positive mannerFraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 05:10:07 pm
content: I see few listings here in eBay USA. Ill try PM them and will see how it goes. I guess someone can make a copy of a CD if they have it.We’re like detectives digging for evidences :-)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 05:19:56 pm
content: For me, part of the enjoyment of collecting thermal imaging cameras is researching their background, design and all pertinent documentation, including manuals, software and patentsFraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 05:28:44 pm
content: It will be harder the I thought :-) Look at attachment for a teply from 1 eBay seller.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 05:50:31 pm
content: Yep, that is what I have come to expectFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 06:08:04 pm
content: The TSC-4500 security camera uses the 4500AS core. The user manual is here.....https://www.x20.org/uploads/TSC-4500%20Operators%20Manual%20Thermal%20Eye.pdfWhilst the manual may be of little practical use in your case, it details the GUI make-up. It appears that the GUI comprises different modules for different functions. You had a GUI installation error. Could it be that the missing functions on your core GUI are those that could not load. It would be worth investigating the exact nature of that installation issue. If you can get all the modules to load, you might gain the GUI capabilities that you need.Fraser

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 07:55:58 pm
content: Sorry I never replied to the PM you sent regarding this - was on holiday (vacation) when it came in. Did you get a few different versions of the GUI software from Fraser? If you did then I probably can't help further unfortunately (he has the same or more versions of the L3 software as I do).I too have noticed that some features are available on one core but not on another - for example the image download feature of the software works on one 3600 but not another (visually identical) one I have.

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 03:29:31 am
content: I’ll look through eBay listings and will do some more tries to approach sellers. If its not a store but regular seller, he will be more helpful. I will also try to approach EOTech. Will see how it goes. I know 4500AS is very outdated and few generations old. So its hard to find someone who still have SW GUI and also someone who is willing to share.

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 02:19:28 pm
content: I’ve got a quick reply from EOTech“Hello, IRP DIv is closed, there is no further support. This is the Ann Abor factory, none of that was ever here. I am sorry”.They have not replied me on my question whether or not their software version is compatible with 4500AS cores. I can try asking for their Software but Im sure they will charge a lot for a copy or just ignore my request.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 02:49:34 pm
content: Their reply is what you get when a company shuts down a particular division. From my experience that means absolutely zero support of any kind, including documentation and software. It basically all does into a black hole ! Sometimes another company buys the production rights for a product line and inherits all the documentation etc but EOTech have not suggested such in this case. Sadly this is likely another dead endJust for fun, you could always forward that EOTech response to any eBay sellers who you ask for a copy of the software to show that EOTech have abandoned the support.Fraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 04:17:20 am
content: Ive found a seller for X320 on eBay who agreed to send me a copy of a Software GUI CD.Ill try to play with it when I get it.

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 04:05:11 pm
content: I've tried connecting 4500AS with the GUI for X320. Software GUI detected my core with the S/N, DSP Version and FPGA version. I've tried to change E-Zoom, Restore Defaults and Apply Changes but settings where not stored in the camera core memory. I've got errors like "The DSP reports an invalid command was received" and "Failed to get parameters from device". Then the Software GUI show "Applying changes" but nothing was changed on my camera core.Still looking for the original 4500AS Software GUI.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 11:08:07 am
content: Vdeny,Some research leads me to believe the X320 uses the later L3 Nano core and that is why the GUI is incompatible with the earlier 4500AS. The Nano core has reduced size and greater sensitivity. The chipset used is likely to be newer than that of the 4500AS and its fellow cores of the era.Fraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 02:15:18 am
content: Thanks to fellow user here for providing working GUI that support 4500AS cores! ;-)I also was able to change E-Zoom, and change brightness / contrast on my 4500As core. It was too bright for me and I decreased brightness and increased contrast.Im using my old Windows XP laptop. Ive also tried installing Software GUI to my virtual Windows XP machine on my Mac (in Parallels), but Software have not detected my camera core and connection was not established.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 10:14:11 am
content: Vdeny,Be a bit careful when using the manual ‘Brightness’ and ‘contrast’ controls. These cores normally operate in full auto mode or with user controls for manual brightness and contrast. Brightness is actually the Level control,and Contrast is the Span control. Setting the span (contrast) too wide reduces Delta T clarity on the display. An incorrect level (Brightness) setting can miss Thermal details completely. The camera cores are normally manually adjusted according to a specific scenario and the Delta T of the scene. In automatic mode, the core does its best to display the full range of temperatures present with the scene. This can cause issues if there are low a Delta T targets of interest in a scene that has a very large overall Delta T as the span will be greatly increased, reducing contrast.The brightness and contrast controls on the video display used with the core may be used to provide comfortable viewing if the video signal coming out of the core. These monitor controls are very different to the similarly named controls on the core.Hope this makes senseFraser

author: vdeny
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 01:23:59 pm
content: Yea, I learn on the go :-) With a tries and errors. Thanks Fraser for explanations how it works. I also noticed that I missed some thermal details in the scene when I try change gain & bias settings. I ended up now switching to AGC mode. It gave me better contrast than it was saved by default. It was too bright for me.“AGC selection disables the Manual Mode Gain and Bias textboxes. This makes the text boxes read only. The image will be mostly black and white with hotter objects displayed as white, if the polarity is white hot, and the rest of the image displayed as black”.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 04:50:22 pm
content: Thermal camera ‘exposure’ management systems come in different types to suit different usage scenarios. Some are very aggressive in their response and act like a mechanical iris closing. Others are more subtle in their operation and employ clever algorithms. I forget what options are offered on the 4500AS core. It could have peak and average scene AGC or other options to control the image.Fraser