what certification is required to sell electronic products? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 07:26:47 pm
content: Hi!A friend of mine and I would like to make a portable gaming console. Question: what certificates we need to do that?We are using esp32 module, the device is going to have a lipo battery. Our target markets are Europe and US, but we'd like to ship worldwide.I see there some certificates come with esp32-s3-wroom-1:https://www.espressif.com/en/support/documents/certificates. Do we need to do anything extra?

author: Retirednerd2020
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 07:51:13 pm
content: Be sure to read the fine print on the pre-done certifications and special instructions from the module supplier.For example:"Single Modular Approval. Output power listed isconducted. Grantee is responsible forprovidingspecific testing instructions to host manufacturersfor additional testing to verifycompliance as acomposite system. This includes retesting oftransmitter module per part15.31(h) and (k) andverification of compliance with FCC RF Exposurerequirements. Separateapproval is required for allother operating configurations, including portableconfigurations withrespect to 2.1093. Theantenna(s) used for this transmitter must beinstalled to provide aseparation distance of atleast 20 cm from all persons. OEM integrators andend-users must beprovided with transmitteroperation conditions for satisfying RF exposurecompliance. Thedevice contains 20MHz and 40MHzbandwidth"Safety certifications, lead/other harmful chemical certifications may also be needed. Some countries need you to have a cradle-to-grave plan for the materials which can include special recycling instructions to the consumer, etc.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 08:21:01 pm
content: The lipo battery is definitely going to be the biggest problem in meeting safety requirements.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 08:36:08 pm
content: UL/CE for safety stuff.FCC for emissions stuff.For USA Market, you still need radiated and conducted emissions testing for the rest of your stuff even if you use the module. It makes the testing easier if you use a certified module, but you still need to go through it.I've only done USA FCC, but I've heard Europe certs are more involved (ie expensive).

author: Retirednerd2020
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2024, 09:45:01 pm
content: Does anyone have an estimate of what this costs these days? Last time I ran a product through for safety for USA and Europe to UL60950/EN60950 (IT Equipment) using TUV as the testing agency, I believe the costs were about $30,000 for 2-3 minor variants of the same product. Changes after that for modifications after certification were in the $5,000-10,000 range. Even substituting inconsequential parts could cost quite a lot after the fact. The emissions / susceptibility testing cost added more to that but I forget the total cost.It is essential to bear in mind that changes will cost you and to plan ahead with potential second source components. Don't run it through agencies until you have thoroughly functional/ and pre-safety-tested yourself. It is generally easier and cheaper to get it done up front vs. piece-meal later on.

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 04:56:12 am
content: Use Li ion battery. This type is used in cell phone. Game console do not need high power.Li Polymer battery is used for really high power, model vehicle, etc. It is more dangerous

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 05:45:02 am
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on April 30, 2024, 04:56:12 amIsn't that backwards? I'm not a battery expert, but I was under the impression it was easier to get a Li-ion to fail spectacularly than a polymer.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 08:04:27 am
content: I said lipo, but didn't really mean any specific chemistry. Though I do want to put the safest battery in it (single sell, 1000-2000mAh) just for the peace of mind.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 08:54:15 am
content: Quote from: Retirednerd2020 on April 27, 2024, 09:45:01 pmWho would ever find out?

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 12:14:32 pm
content: I would shop around. UL is generally expensive and slow. I have found that UL also tends to be the most thorough, even though all labs who participate in the CB scheme are supposed to be equivalent.Anyway, check:Intertek, Nemko, Eurofins, Dekra, TUV Rheinland, TUV SUD, SIQ

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 12:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on April 30, 2024, 12:14:32 pmIs UL/ETL even relevant for the product as a whole? Only the battery is a significant safety item based on available information.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 01:05:50 pm
content: I don’t know for sure, but consider what other similar products have:https://www.nintendo.com/eu/media/downloads/support_1/nintendoswitch/NSwitch_DeclarationOfConformity.pdfObviously Nintendo is a very high profile company so I’m sure they haven’t cut any corners on certification.Using pre-certified components may help eliminate some testing, but generally does not clear you of system level evaluation.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 02:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: exe on April 27, 2024, 07:26:47 pmFor a commercial product, this is quite an effort.Check validity of the software&hardware licenses - there are so many patents involved, which may or may not have been cleared in all countries. For small production numbers, this might run under the radar and I would neglect it for now.Check for emissions and safety - a self declaration is probably good enough for Europa, likely not possible in many other countries.Waste a lot of money on waste licensing. Not sure how this is handled outside Europe, but for Europe, it has become beyond crazy. And crazy expensive for registration alone, expect a good 4-digit amount per year, without even selling one item.Consider shipping Lithium-cells containing devices to be very expensive locally or even impossible overseas (unless shipping by container). Just design to use a replaceable AAA battery or two and don't include them.Unless you intend to sell tens of thousands of units, I would keep it as a hobby, that keeps things waaaaay easier.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 02:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on April 30, 2024, 02:32:02 pmOr design around a rechargeable type that the user can buy locally - camera /phone batteries etc.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 03:41:17 pm
content: IANAL. But based on description you need for the EU:CE self certification.RED since you have a radio, which can be a self certification, or an external one. The self certification is a bit playing around the rules.LVD for all electronics devices, but it's just one page declaring that the voltages are low.You might need UL 38.3 for the battery and maybe something for the whole product. If your battery doesn't have that, select an other one.RoHS/REACH to declare about the materials used are not poisonous.You don't need EMC because RED covers that.You need to draft a DoC for the CE, declare which directives it adheres to, and it's a legal document that you are liable to, can get you fined or sent to prison in extreme case. If it doesn't actually do it and someone gets injured or worse.My suggestion is to skip the US as a market, it is not something which is affordable to enter to unless you expect large sales volume.

author: Retirednerd2020
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2024, 04:31:38 pm
content: Quote[about substitute parts]All safety certifications I've been involved with include "follow-up services" (that you pay for). In the case of one company I was involved with, a UL inspector or TUV inspector would come by and look at present production of the products on a rolling basis quarterly. He would compare the products with what was written in the test reports and make note of any changes. Invariably, the inspectors took things literally and used no reasonable engineering judgement when deciding to write something up. In many cases, with proper planning ahead and ensuring the test reports supported it, substitutions were trouble-free. However life is easier on the test agencies if you list exact model numbers for important components. You have to push back on that and insist on descriptive text and specifications for components when possible. We went through problems when many components added "PBF" or the like to the end of their model numbers when lead-free substitutes of the same part became mandatory. It cost tens of thousands of dollars and weeks of an engineers time to go through each test report for dozens of products to make the updates and get them re-approved. Using reason and logic about the absurdity of the exercise generally did not work.In addition, a company enters into a contract with the certification body to conform to certain requirements so doing anything sneaky puts the company in legal or financial jeopardy because the body can remove certifications as well as provide them.Determining whether or not a particular product requires certifications and if required, determining which certifications and to what standards becomes is a small project in itself. It should not be taken lightly and proper up front planning can save a great deal in the long run. For example if you have several versions or potential versions of a product it can be easier to get several covered at once. Sometimes this takes some imagination because the other versions my not be fully designed and tested yet. It can take some finesse with the certifying body to keep the test reports as open ended as possible.Another fun part of the process is "luck of the draw". If you are lucky, you get experienced, reasonable test engineers and followup technicians that understand your product. Sometimes you don't.

author: aldi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 06:31:42 pm
content: This document gives some prices for li-ion certification:https://my.avnet.com/wcm/connect/ccae6ad7-8e6a-4cc7-a362-0c6336823708/AvA-Standard-Batteries-EN-Brochure.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=n1TjpAGNever fully understood what IEC 62133-2:2017 is for.. Anyone knows?

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2024, 08:44:15 pm
content: must be different regulations if capacity is some 100 or 10Mheard that VW certify single product in series and they do modifications (different engine .. electronic features..

author: selcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 07:15:58 am
content: As suggested, you will need some certification. But you need to pay attention to the technical aspects as well. This is the datasheet of the module:https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/esp32-s3-wroom-1_wroom-1u_datasheet_en.pdfIf you check the module picture and then read the schematics on page 27, you will observe that there is only an RF shield and an ESD diode on 3.3V net for EMC purposes. They are something but you will again need to spend time for the design and tests of the end product.

author: wilhe_jo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 07:47:57 am
content: US has no requirement for safety.Easiest would be just an SDoC for the FCC things.So "just" testing in an accredited lab is needed.The EU will give you more of an headake.We don't rely courts to have safe products, we just have this in our regulations.So you have the RED (radio equipment directive), that covers safety and emc aspects.If you do the integration as intended by the FCC (they have docs in the KDB for this), you end up with more or less what is required in the EU for the radio/emc part.Additionally, we have things like WEEE (waste electronics), RoHS (hazardous substances) and regulations for packaging waste.Fun fact: 47 CFR 15 ("FCC 15") contains wording that allows (for some sorts of products) testing to CISPR32 which mostly equivalent to EN55032...so you could potentially do just 1 emc test and you're good.This is particularly interesting, since the EU does not really mandate testing.So using the FCC test results and comparing them to appropriate limits to declare conformity yourself is perfectly fine.Oh, and don't do 60950-1... Use 62368-1... The former one is more or less useless since years.Disclaimer: I do such things for a living in my business, but without all details about the projects, things may turn out differently...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 11:19:25 am
content: Quote from: exe on April 27, 2024, 07:26:47 pmMy advise would be to go over your product together with a certification expert. Costs around 1k to 2k euro but then you'll have a complete list with requirements tailored to your product. I'm in the process of getting an ESP32 product certified for US & EU and hiring the expert for advise and some pre-compliance testing makes life a whole lot easier. RED and FCC list a whole bunch of generic tests but not all apply to all products. The same goes for LVD testing (which also addresses things like outside case temperature / touch safety).

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 02:57:48 pm
content: yes the battery type will be the most problematic, export rules ....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 03:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 02, 2024, 02:57:48 pmFor as long as the battery is UN38.3 certified, it should be no problem. But this means using a pre-made battery pack (cell(s) + BMS).

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 03:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 02, 2024, 02:57:48 pmship it through Aliexpress

author: harerod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2024, 03:58:29 pm
content: Since this is your first time designing a commercial product, I would strongly recommend hiring an independent expert before contacting any regulatory body.I have been doing this kind of work for a couple of decades and I keep seeing the same pattern - i.e. client not understanding the actual requirements, not designing towards requirements, communication issues between "test lab" and client, resulting in too elaborate tests.A notified body (i.e. TÜV) bills well upwards of €200 per hour. Imagine how much money is wasted when approaching them with unclear requirements.My favorite example is a medical device (for which I did the electronics and basic firmware drivers), where TÜV Süd sold 4 lab days to my client for EMC, simply because the requirements were unclear. When they told me about this "comprehensive package", I suggested that I join the tests. We successfully completed the tests within a single 8 hour session.I'd recommend using the "Jobs" section of this forum, asking for a consultant. The whole topic is no magic. After a couple of successful runs, you may well do everything yourself.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 07:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: exe on April 30, 2024, 08:04:27 amUse LFP then.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 05:36:58 am
content: Note that there are different rules around shipping batteries by themselves vs shipping a product that contains a battery. Also country of origin and destination matter as well.I had a box of 1000 individually packaged 500mAh Li-Poly batteries shipped to my door from China with no questions asked and no extra handling. But when I tried to ship 3 of those batteries to the Netherlands for testing and characterization I got rejected by UPS, FedEx, and the USPS. Only DHL would accept that shipment. None of the restrictions would have been in play if I had just shipped the batteries as part of a product.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 07:03:14 am
content: same when handling returns. incident happened when someone bought kids toy with removable battery and same service rejected sending it back because it is lithiumI suspect they earn cents from UPS etc and dont want to dig into legal stuff.I think, they know how to design products so that they get less returns