“First app-controlled smart image toaster” - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 10:58:30 pm
content: http://ovens.reviewed.com/features/this-absurd-smart-toaster-serves-up-the-forecast-on-rye?utm_source=usat&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=collabhttps://youtu.be/nEzT9e45ZE0

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:44:06 am
content: But... WHY!?!Another useless Internet of Things gadget. Wait for it to get hacked and start setting houses on fire.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:51:44 am
content: Now we know what wasreallybehind those pieces of toast with religious images!

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 02:42:40 am
content: Nice... Finally. I mocked up some ideas for how to possibly do this a number of years ago, but never came up with anything I could turn into a product. Good on them for figuring something out.The price for their "mini" version (Toasteroid Mini x1.. More compact version of Toasteroid. Toasts two slices and can print only on one slice) is only $65... That's crazy cheap for the hardware and the app.I wonder if this is going to end up as another failed kickstarter where the idea was good but they screw up the pricing because they don't know how to manufacturer and market a real product.....Not counting the absolute cheapest normal toasters, a standard name brand dumb two slice top loader toaster is about $25-30.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 03:20:23 am
content: Closest thing is this..https://www.amazon.com/Burnt-Impressions-SELFI-Selfie-Toaster/dp/B00OZ4TDC8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471230950&sr=8-1&keywords=selfie+toasterAnother dumb toaster that you can have static image plates made for.Also $65, without any smart electronics or app development.....Dunno...

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 06:02:04 am
content: Is this thing actually made and working or just a simulation? That video looked too good to be true. These micro filaments must be contained inside a grid that isolates each cell from the next, otherwise heating would blend adjacent "pixels ". I'll believe it when I see an actual toaster being reviewed on a video blog and tested. And $65 is too cheap considering the toaster looks to be totally custom, components and tooling to make it will cost a bundle.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 06:38:26 am
content: Quote from: edy on August 15, 2016, 06:02:04 amI don't think people are going to like my idea of how it works. I think it has a bunch of heated metal posts for pixels mounted to two plates. When you push toast these plates viciously grab and manhandle your toast forcefully branding the image onto it. Hope everyone likes flatter toast! :-P

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 07:21:00 am
content: When I saw the fixed-image plate ones I started thinking about how to do this - just as a fun hack, not a product. Can't see it working as the latter, especially with all the BS about "bringing families together", and more ridiculous, leaving messages instead of post-its.My thinking was a standard heater to provide most of the heat, and a row of heaters or laser diodes at the top to provide the additional heat to darken it on the way out.If you reduce the problem to a single row of heaters that the bread moves past, I think it gets more practical, however you still have the issue of variation due to bread type, moisture, internal ambient temp etc."micro-filaments" sound rather fragile....My bet is results will be generally disappointing.No way they can do it for $65 though.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:33:54 am
content: Rectify mains to DC, then charlieplex an array of heaters? Doesn't seem that complicated, but of course the price is a joke.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:19:22 pm
content: Maybe instead of thinking about complex electronics we should think simple mechanics? Remember Dave's recent mailbag - the screen with flippable flaps. Some mechanical gadget that flips or otherwise casts a shadow on the bread from a regular heater, showed into some $30 Chineese toaster.

author: sca
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:58:03 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 15, 2016, 07:21:00 amStrap your hot air gun with fine nozzle to your cnc router, position partially toasted bread underneath, write g-code. Control darkness by dwell time or repeated passes.sca

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:16:56 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on August 15, 2016, 11:33:54 amCharlieplexing at 350V DC...good luck.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:35:15 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 15, 2016, 01:16:56 pmThere is nothing special about 350V, it even doesn't need to be DC. Just use a bunch of optoisolated triacs. Price is ridiculous though.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 01:53:42 pm
content: Sorry darling, no toast for breakfast. I've left my smartphone in the car.If that thing works, Google will buy it, give the toasters away for free and you'll have a nice ad on your toast each morning. Sounds like a solid business case, doesn't it?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 02:49:39 pm
content: Careful what you wish for...

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 07:24:58 pm
content: Quote from: madires on August 15, 2016, 01:53:42 pm1984 in 2016!I'm certain it's real, but probably only in prototype or small production. That would explain the high price, it's not made-in-china-explode-when-plugged-in ready yet.

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:05:57 pm
content: Just wish I could find a toaster that actually copes with different thicknesses and water content and then does not burn the stuff.Perhaps with a light sensor that determines how dark the bread is getting.Perhaps I have been unlucky with the ones bought over the years.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:10:17 pm
content: Toast is a terrible print medium. That's a big part of the problem. It's not uniform or consistent....

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 08:32:37 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on August 15, 2016, 07:24:58 pmHigh price? It's ridiculously low to be true.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 11:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 15, 2016, 07:21:00 amI think I've got a thermal label printer that will *just* fit a slice of bread... All I need to do is crank the voltage up a bit on the thermal heating strip and voila! Though, the toast might get a bit squashed as the rollers pull it through...(Seriously though, I had a friend who would print designs on bread with his laser cutter, so that's an expensive option.)

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 12:37:26 am
content: Quote from: wraper on August 15, 2016, 08:32:37 pmLow? What are you expecting? It's an extremely primitive device. It's just a blue-tooth receiver, a small CPU and an array of transistors that multiplex a bunch of low voltage tungsten filaments. All of the controls and processing are in the app, the toaster just receives commands, probably only with basic ROM memory. Just wait, once they fill it with COBs, hot melt glue, and not even heat-sinked transistors, it'll be like $40. Not to mention low quality thermo-plastic. It either has an internal power converter or a wall wart, so no good quality wiring required. The wire probably goes right through the case into a sealed box with a switching power converter.Notice something? It doesn't eject the toast! You have to pull it out! Why would they make a toaster that doesn't pop the toast? To cheap out!EDIT: It does attempt to eject the toast, they just keep showing people letting it fall back in and having to grab it. So that's a small motor, spring and soleniod. There's the rest of the $65.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:07:37 am
content: Filaments (usually nichrome not tungsten) aren't that easy to pack densely without isolation problems. Remember that a regular two-slice toaster oven puts out around 2 kW. Low voltage filaments? No chance, mate...

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:38:12 am
content: While waiting for your toast you can read messages, weather and do other things with your smartphone rather than waiting for the information to be printed on the bread instead. The resolution isnt that great either, if it was it would be nice to print pictures of people on toast and eat them

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:56:01 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 16, 2016, 02:07:37 amYou confuse voltage with current. They make USB soldering irons that run on 5V, it's current not voltage that makes a lot of heat. Each filament only heats a small portion of the bread at a time too so each one does not need to draw that much current, which is definitely at 6 to 12V at maybe an amp each. High voltage wiring would make this thing well over $100. As far as isolation, they don't need much more than several millimeters because the toast probably almost touches (if not actually touches) the filaments. As you can see in the pics, it does bleed a bit.EDIT: I think I found what they might be using:http://www.weiku.com/products/12608490/12V_40W_mini_small_stainless_steel_rod_heating_element.html

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 07:15:58 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 16, 2016, 02:07:37 amFrom the video there seems to be a grid of about 25x25 dots, so assupming same power 2k/625 = around 3.2W per element.Just need a grid of metal reflectors in order to direct the IR with glowing filaments similar to small light bulbs in them.

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 11:43:06 am
content: Instead of controlling the heat applied to each part of the image would it be possible to control the moisture by printing on the bread with water? The more water at a point the less toasted it would be.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 12:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: alanb on August 16, 2016, 11:43:06 amOr maybe you could spray butter on it!

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 12:34:15 pm
content: Maybe the bulk of the "toasting" is done by conventional means, with the areas that you want to be more toasted being lasered like here:Or perhaps it's the other way around - the toasting element is at full power and the areas that you do not want toasted are covered by a thermal flip disc display equivalent cover?Either way, it's one of the most WTF devices this month.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 01:13:56 pm
content: We have yet to see any video proof of this thing actually being tested out on several pieces of toast, by a popular video blogger, in real time to see what the results are. Until then, this awesome looking video showing these beautifully printed images on toast.... Nice marketing but only that! We don't know if those are "real" or just the best results of many failed attempts. Nevertheless, if they can pull this off with consistent results, and not too expensive, this would be theNEXT BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!(pun intended)As far as how it works, it could be by selectively heating certain parts of toast using an array of individual heating elements, or even by turning on and off selective lines in a horizontal and vertical grid laid over each other (doing certain lines and by figuring out where they overlap you could expose certain areas to more heat over the time of the burn).... or by "masking" an evenly heated surface using some kind of flap mechanism.So, some scenarios...1. The grid would have little coils in each part of it, like the old car cigarette lighters. You would only energize the grid elements where you want your drawing. Theoretically speaking, you time each element's "on" time to even create "toast shades".2. If you had a series of horizontal heating wires, and vertical heating wires, you could design an algorithm that would selectively burn more of one "coordinate" than the others based on the timing of how the wires are turned on. In a way, it is a type of multiplexing.3. A flap-based system which blocks certain areas from getting burned. Mechanical switches that pivot metal doors?4. As was recently suggested by another forum member, a "print" on the toast first with some kind of agent (like water) that dampens the surface so that it doesn't burn so well. That would work but I think it would have to be printed flat (not vertically) so water doesn't drip.5. A flat toaster conveyor with a single row of elements that turns on and off as the toast passes beneath it.... almost like a line-scanner but in reverse. It could even have a scanner to see how brown the bread goes or changes color, to know when to advance the conveyor to the next row to print. Then it would work essentially like a printer..... many other ideas ....I can see this turning into a contest for High-school tech/engineering using Arduino and other tools and seeing who can make the best one!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 02:32:06 pm
content: "Toaster, make normal toast!"*prints toast with "I'm sorry" "I'm afraid" "I can't" "do that"*"What?! I said, make normal toast!"*prints toast with "NO!" on it*"Excuse me?!"*BEEP* "You will have toast with picures on it." *BEEP* "You will have toast with pictures on it and LIKE IT!"*continues to put ads on the toast**roomate walks in* "Dude, don't make the Toasterino angry. You won't like it when he's angry."

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 03:01:43 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on August 16, 2016, 02:56:01 amif it has something like 25x25 resolution, then you nee like 600 of them. Good luck getting that at $65, yet together with the control circuity. More or less advanced "usual" toasters already cost like that or more. And they are very high volume products. And Bluetooth would be among the the cheapest things to implement in such toaster.An now look at the cost of much less advanced toaster (have bought such as a gift).http://www.brevilleusa.com/die-cast-2-slice-smart-toastertm.html

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 05:24:57 pm
content: Who needs a normal or smart toaster when you can simply use a knife?

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 06:12:49 pm
content: OK, so the kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/258723592/toasteroid-first-app-controlled-smart-image-toaste) seems to have some extra details on the construction. Apparently it's:QuoteIt's way down in the page. While I'm sure it's possible, the pricetag is iffy.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 06:56:39 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on August 16, 2016, 02:32:06 pmThis is the result.........

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 03:17:25 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 16, 2016, 06:56:39 pmDamn, you beat me to it!

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 05:01:22 pm
content: The more I see these crowd-funding campaigns asking for a ridiculously low amount of money and having costs that are far too cheap, I suspect that they are being used for market-testing and to create hype, and more importantly... SHOW TO POTENTIAL INVESTORS a business idea to gain SEED MONEY.For example, this Toasteroid campaign has a goal of $150,000 and is selling toasters for $70-80 or less.... Complete with WiFi capability, iPhone and Android app development. Most of us have already concluded that even if this was possible, there is no way they could set up a production run for $150,000 to create unique and customized product.The kind of development money needed here is in the $millions$... I have a feeling that they will try to do a few rounds of investor seeding once they show that it is gaining interest and market hype, to convince investors in putting in the capital to get this thing going.... And eventually having every Wal-Mart stock one of these things. Maybe after a few years and they are making 100,000 units a month in China they will be able to get the cost to the $70-80 range.What do you think? Is this campaign simply a "ruse" with the hopes of securing major capital investment to bring them up to what they really need to make this work? What is your estimate for what kind of money is needed to create this product?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 06:51:33 pm
content: Quote from: edy on August 17, 2016, 05:01:22 pmThat's indeed the main purpose of pretty much every large-scale campaign.