Equipment recommendations - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: David Greene
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 04:36:30 am
content: I know there have been many threads about recommendations and I have read several but recommendations change as time progresses. Maybe there should be a sticky topic that can be updated as the years pass.Anyway, because I was terrible at soldering in school I've been intimidated for too many years to work on my own projects. That ends now. I'm in the process of building a bench and I need to get some equipment. My first project will be restoring an old RCA Victor tube phonograph.The equipment I have so far:An ok-but-not-great portable DMMand nothing elseThe equipment I'm looking to get, in rough time order:An oscilliscope (initially perhaps a used Tektronix 2465 (if I can find one at a reasonable price) but working toward a DSO/MSO (eyeing the Siglent 1104E-X currently but the FOMO is strong, worried about what might be around the corner).A soldering/desoldering station. I've read some things here saying to avoid stuff from China but have been looking at this one, reviewed well on Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/YIHUA-Soldering-Desoldering-Suction-Station/dp/B07RNL7YT9.Eventually I want to work on boards and SMD stuff but that's for later, not any time soon. Soldering/desoldering is the bare minimum need.A benchtop DMM (not much in terms of ideas here, maybe Fluke 8842A).An AWG, no idea at all what the good ones are. Mostly I will be working on various types of amps at first but also have an idea for MIDI-driven devices.Would really appreciate recommendations from folks and hearing about experiences with various models of the above tools.I am also getting or building various infrastructure pieces: isolation transformer, variac, dim bulb tester and capacitor discharge tool. Anything else I should think about getting when building a bench (and recommendations for such, of course!)? Good pieces for parts organization comes to mind, for example.Thank you for all your help!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 08:38:54 am
content: Recommendations don't change that fast; the "old" topics are still relevant and contain much useful information. Starting anothergenerictopic will merely annoy people that have contributed to similar topics in the past, and cause endless recapitulation of old discussions.So, use the old topics as a basis for asking specific targeted queries.Apart from that...Best advice: don't get something until youknowwhat you need and why you need it.EDIT: the aphorism in my .sig is there for this kind of topic!If getting an old scope, verify that it is working before purchase. 24x5* require recapping, and the A and B variants have problems with losing calibration information when the battery expires.More important that the type of scope is the rightclassof scope probe, and using it well. FFI:https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/Using a dim-bulb tester on a modern SMPS may lead to interesting results, since SMPSs are constant poweroutputdevices.Isolation transformers don't make it safe to work on equipment; there will still be lethal voiltages.

author: theHWcave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 08:45:08 am
content: I do have way to much gear (5 bench top meters at the last count...) to start out, this is what I would recommend:A bench top power supply that can do constant voltage to at least 20V and constant current to at least 1A. There a plenty of these. Try to get one that has readouts for voltage and current, which saves you needing additional multi metersThat said, a 2nd reasonable DMM is often needed. No need to spend too much, I recently got an ANENG AN870 and was quite impressed and I recon its safe enough for bench workI have a soldering/desoldering station YIHUA 948, (eBay). Its ok, but I'm not using it too much because of the hassle and space it takes on the bench. Most of the time I use a simple Chinese-make temperature-controlled solder station (a HAKKO clone). It works very reliable but with all that stuff, first take it apart and fix any shoddy internal wiring, especially earth connections.... I use it also for desoldering with a hand-sucker and solder-wick.Scope is fine but you also need a function gen. For a beginner, you could do worse in considering the OWON HDS272S handheld 2 channel scope + multimeter + function gen. I use it mostly when I am away from the bench because you have three of the most commonly used instruments with you, no hassle

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 12:20:03 am
content: Quote from: David Greene on August 01, 2022, 04:36:30 amElectronic instrumentation and the market changes slowly at this end of the business.QuoteWell that is more than I had.QuoteFOMO?If you have cash to spend on a scope you are probably better off with a new one. For a used Tek of that vintage I wouldn't spend more that $100 maybe $200 if in really good condition. However I'm not sure I would have this high on my list if the goal is to get started in audio equipment. It certianly needs to be on the list but if you have nothing I'm not sure I'd go that route first.QuoteSeriously don't trust reviews on Amazon.QuoteIf you intend to work on tube stuff I'm not even sure I'd recommend a soldering station. You might want to hook up with video by "Mr Carlson's Lab" (I think that is right) on Youtube as he goes through a lot of electronics repairs on old equipment. Lots of good info there.The problem is you could end up needing more than one piece of soldering equipment with a higher wattage iron needed for sockets, chassis connections and much large components than would be on a SMd board. in fact it is almost a certainty that you will need more than one iron as a iron suitable for SMD work probably isn't going to cut it soldering a 10 watt resistor to a heavy eyelet. I'd get the basic soldering taken care of first and then consider a de soldering station.QuoteThe nice thing here is that OWON and others now have lower end DMM for the bench available. These would be easier to use than a handheld meter and cost less that a system DMM. Not that a system DMM is a bad thing to have just that I'd skip it for a O'scope when first outfitting a bench. In any event to be clear I'm talking about something like Owon's XDM1041 series meters, not their system meters.Sadly I'm not sure why Fluke and other mainstream manufactures don't play in this market. That is a low end bench meter that simply is easier to use on the bench and isn't a $999.999 device.QuoteThis can be built into a scope these days. However again I would not jump the gun here until you are better equipped to understand your needs. For a signal source you can make use of anything form an MP3 player to your cell phone to get started.Again this is about getting started, later you can figure out what features you would really need in a dedicated AWG.QuoteAt work it is Fluke for portable work and HP multi meters for the work bench and at times calibrations out in manufacturing.QuoteLights and magnification come to mind immediately. You will be surprised how important good lighting is, that 60 watt bulb in the center of the garage is not going to cut it.You will want a good set of speakers audio testing and some minimally inductive power resistors for loads. The power resistors of course need heat sinking and a fan. If you are really up to it those resistors could be built into a 19" enclosure with your variac and maybe parts of the Dim Bulb tester. There is a real possibility though that getting bulbs for your test rig might become a huge problem in the future.The issue with respect to bulbs comes straight from the heart, as we have run into huge issues getting specialty bulbs for older tools at work. So it might not hurt to look into alternatives. I can see the day that incandescent bulbs for Edison sockets do not exists anymore.Do you have a vice for a vise? Sometimes people overlook the mechanical end of the business, you really need a vise solution and frankly you may want more than one type. At the very least get a Panavise and a few options for it. If you expect to get into panel or chassis work a machinist type vise may also be in the cards.The mechanical end also highlights the need for hand tools suitable for what you may be working on. More importantly a place to store those tools.if you are serious about tube related equipment I'd suggest getting familiar with the youtubers doing such repairs. You may find yourself needing tube testers and other specialized equipment.if you are going to do things other than repairs (design and build) you will need to get equipment for that; which could be an entirely different list.QuoteNo problem. There is nothing unique here. The only thing that really has changed, is viable low cost bench DMM (basically handheld electronics) in a bench suitable housing, with AC in.

author: mindcrime
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 01:15:01 am
content: Advice on the Internet is free, so take it for what it's worth.The exact details of what equipment you should buy, and in what order, is obviously a personal thing. It will depend on what kinds of projects you plan to work on, your financial situation, and any number of other factors. So take all advice with a grain of salt, as nobody else but you knowsexactlywhat your situation is.That said, there are some general "rules of thumb" that are often useful. Dave does a great job of covering a lot of stuff in this.My own recommendations?(Test equipment)1. Buy two, if not three, reasonable quality handheld DMM's before buying a bench DMM. I'd actually make a bench DMM a pretty low priority. I rarely even turn mine on, but I'm forever using two or three of the handheld ones.2. A decent bench power supply is arguably your next priority.3. A decent DSO is probably priority 2 or 3. I'd skip the used analog gear market for the time being personally. Actually, I'd probably skip the used market altogether unless money is really, really tight. If I had to make a trade-off between bandwidth and "# of channels", I'd go for the more channels (to a point). Example: given a choice between, say, a 50Mhz 4 channel scope and a 100Mhz 2 channel scope, I'd go for the 50Mhz 4 channel jobbie. Unless youknowthat you're going to be working with signals at or above 50Mhz, you'll probably find having more channels useful first.4. Next is where things start to diverge more based on what you plan to work on. But I'd strongly suggest considering a programmable load for your next purchase. I expect a lot of people will disagree, considering that a more esoteric item, but I've come to depend on mine all the time. Most times I sit at my bench, the first things I power up at the lab power supply, the oscilloscope, the soldering iron... and the programmable load.Reason for (4)? Well, consider this - just about everything has a power supply. And power supply problems are some of the most common problems you run into when repairing things, and possibly also when building things. A good programmable load is amazingly invaluable for understanding the behavior of a power supply. This could be anything from a battery pack, to a linear power supply, an SMPS, solar stuff, whatever you're using. Being able to set a constant current mode and watch the voltage change as the current changes, etc., is just SO useful.5. One of those janky cheap little transistor testers. Something likethis. They are cheap but handy. Nothing worse than wiring something up backwards, turning the power on, seeing it not work, fixing the wiring, and turning the power on again and seeing it *still* not work. Now you have to ask yourself: "is this fundamentally wrong, or did I just burn up that transistor earlier when I had it wired up backwards?" Being able to quickly test a transistor and see if it's shot or not is pretty handy. And these things can test other components as well.Some DMM's have the same capability, but I prefer having a separate device for doing this stuff. And as cheap as these things are, I don't see much reason to not have one.6. Something for measuring temperature. If one of your DMM's is the type that takes a thermocouple input and displays temperature, great. If not, a dedicated digital thermometer can be had for not too much $$$. Theone I useis around $25 USD.7. Everything else. Get that benchtop DMM if you want it. Get the Function / Arbitrary Waveform gen. Get a logic analyzer if you're doing lots of digital logic stuff. Get a spectrum analyzer if you're into RF stuff. A frequency counter might also be useful. Or a modulation domain analyzer. Power Analyzer. RF Power Meter. Etc., etc.Tools / etc.1. I'm a fan of Hakko temperature controlled soldering stations. Their prices are reasonable, and the quality is pretty good. I went with the FX-951-66, but the FX-888D is also very popular.2. The Hakko FR-301 desoldering gun is alsowildlyuseful IME. It might seem gratuitous at first, especially given the price for what problem seems like a tool you'll use infrequently. But I swear by mine at this point. I find that it's one of those things where once I had it and realized how well it works, I was a lot more willing to desolder things in general, as opposed to starting over on a board altogether, or scrapping something.3. Magnification. Depending on your age and eyesight situation, magnification can be anywhere from handy to essential.4. Lighting. It's usually hard to have too much light in the lab. Invest in lights.5. A fan / fume extractor for soldering.these thingsare fairly cheap and work well. This is the exact one I use on my bench.6. Hot air / SMD rework station. I went with one ofthese thingsbut I can't really recommend or not recommend it, as I've never used it.I wound up doing a DIY convection oven to reflow oven conversion to use for SMD soldering. I'd advise doing that over buying one of those cheap Chinese T-962 reflow ovens, but YMMV. Having one of the hot air rework stations will probably also be handy at some point. Actually, I expect to break mine out soon when I attempt to repair a dead Raspberry Pi that I think has a blown voltage regulator. Time will tell how that goes.And as Dave points out in his video: don't forget a good fire extinguisher. Seriously. I'd actually advise having a few of them, and at least one a decent distance from your lab bench. The reason being, if there is a fire, you don't want to be in a situation where the fire prevents you from getting to your extinguisher!

author: twospoons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 04:23:31 am
content: Don't cheap out on the hand tools either. Lindstrom sidecutters may have a eye-watering price tag, but they are really good and will last forever if you treat them right. Wouldn't be without mine.Same with tweezers - spend money to get ones that wont bend the tips as soon as you apply a bit of pressure.Has anyone mentioned anti-static mat + wrist strap?