The man who built an arm out of scrap metal - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: oliver9523
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 12:46:42 pm
content: Afternoon folks,I saw thishttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35407431'news' item pop up on the BBC and thought ooo that sounds interesting... then I saw it.I've been watching Dave's youtube channel for a while but thought I needed to join the forum and share this.I'm 100% behind people who can build things and just want to learn more and better themselves... but this?Here are a few screenshots from the video. I thought this would be a good game to play spot the components.So that's clearly an optical mouse board there with the green LED... and nope it's not being used as a position encoder, it's in the middle of the backpackThere's clearly another crusty board above the mouse with some I/O ports on top, I can't ID it though.Here's a shot of the headband with what looks to be a camera module and an SD card reader hanging off the red PCB.Then of course there's the massive electro-mechanical elephant in the room.... so.... he couldn't work with one hand, but builds this with one hand so he can go back to work as a "welder and also a repairman, fixing household electronics such as fans, televisions and refrigerators."

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 01:26:02 pm
content: Wayan Sumardana and Ahmed Mohamed should team up and invent some lies together.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 03:17:44 pm
content: In the second photo is what looks like a digital camera module with SD card slot, and some wires running haphazardly in front of the camera lens.I am trying to imagine what was the original purpose of the green board next to it, the one with the four diagonally mounted LEDs. Some children's toy? Like aSimon?

author: oliver9523
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2016, 02:45:02 pm
content: Good shout with the game board.To the top left of the mouse board there are 4 wires, yellow-black-black-red, this looks suspiciously like an old PC molex power connector.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 09:04:10 pm
content: very cool construction!...but am i being cynical in saying i dont think it's controlled by brainwaves?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2016, 09:24:15 pm
content: QuoteLOLOLOL

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 12:35:59 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on January 30, 2016, 09:04:10 pmBut no ... it IS!You just have to address the correct sequence of things... The rotary electromechanical units are operating as generators, not motors.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 02:09:41 am
content: Thank you very much, Mr. Roboto, for helping me weld just when I needed to! Thank you! Thank you, thank youuuu! And thank you very much a Mr. Roboto for fixing the fans that nobody wants to! And thank you very much Mr. Roboto now my son can buy the snacks just when he wants to! Domo (domo), domo (domo).Seriously though, I think something *did* happen to the guy and he couldn't use his arm, however there was nothing physically wrong, it was psychosomatic. Like phantom limbs, or cases where people believe they are paralyzed after traumatic events.That's the only plausible scientific reason. In a sense it does work, for him.That, or he's making the whole thing up and his arm really works fine.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 10:54:34 am
content: yea i think he has lost the use of his arm, but maybe he can still have limited movement in his hand or something... switches in the glove?he should be applauded for what he has put together, i just find it strange why he claims it's brainwave activatedmaybe it's just lost in the translation to subtitles?

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 12:52:50 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on January 31, 2016, 10:54:34 amIn the video, you'll notice the bionic arm doesn't actually do anything. The motors never run under electric power and the pneumatic/hydraulic pistons aren't actually hooked up to pumps.So, it would seem he's not only able to actually move his arm, but move it with several additional pounds of junk attached to it. So, he's either making it all up or its psychosomatic. Or there could be a valid medical explanation, such as temporary paralysis due to nerve compression that's now gone.That's actually happened to me before. I fell asleep at my workbench in such a way that my hand was folded forward and my weight placed on it. When I woke up, my hand was completely paralyzed! I went to the doctor, but she wasn't in so I saw the nurse practitioner who told me it was just carpotunnel syndrome at which point I just stood up and left, driving straight to the hospital.There I saw a neurosurgeon who figured out the nerves in my wrist had been compressed and set me up with a hand brace. It took a week before I could start to move my fingers again. It was very scary. I couldn't even login to my computer, because I had a long complicated password that had just become muscle memory.Anyway, apparently the same thing can cause temporary paralysis below the elbow (if the nerves on the back of the elbow are compressed; think funny bone) or the entire arm (the nerves around your armpit). So, perhaps exhausted one day, this guy passed out in a weird position and woke up not being able to move his arm.Or he's just a scammer. Who knows!

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 01:51:26 am
content: It's not electrical project. more likely art project since many of the component only function as decoration...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:52:53 am
content: Saying it's psychosomatic is just being kind. It's a fraud, IMHO.Roboticists wouldkillfor fluid motion like that!My guess is he wants to see if he can get a youtube income - or perhaps sucker some donations. Then again, maybe it was for a bet or he just wants some attention. Who knows (aside from him).Whatever the motivation, the tech is bogus.Quote from: han on February 01, 2016, 01:51:26 amThere's a thought .... maybe he's selling a variation of steam punk - bionics.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 04:21:52 am
content: Isn't that how everybody's arms work ? You think about what to do and your arm moves ?So, nothing to see here, move on please ...

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 04:25:32 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 01, 2016, 02:52:53 amClearly you understand village life in a 3rd world country heh.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 04:33:14 am
content: Hardly. Just speculating.Nothing like a good speculation ... !(or even a bad one)

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:00:37 am
content: This is primarily an example of how even an impoverished "3rd world" random citizen can game the technically ignorant mainstream media. It demonstrates the decreasing credibility of the popular press.This invention purports to be able to measure brain or nerve signals without any decent skin electrodes. Something scientists with millions of dollars have yet to achieve.It purports to detect very low-level physioelectric signals while being completely impervious to extraordinarily high EMF interference from arc-welding just inches away.Perhaps this guy should go to Bollywood and work in the movie industry making props.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:34:56 am
content: To be fair, it is very easy to pick up basic EEG potentials at the surface of the scalp with very crude surface electrodes and then with basic ADC and very little filtering differentiate between delta, alpha, beta, gamma, etc brain waves. These different waves refelect general overall states of the brain ( sleep, awake and relaxed, awake and alert, etc). It's not hard to train oneself to induce alpha waves for example, so getting some binary action to occur based on alpha/no alpha would be trivially easy.Sensory evoked potentials or motor event potentials gets more difficult but still not that hard to do with careful electrode placement, some processing power and appropriate code. Note, these are gross, surface potentials that reflect synchronous activity of many (likely millions) of neurons. They are not picking up activity of just a few neurons, so they only correspond to fairly gross sensory or motor brain activity.Now, I'm not saying this guy is doing any of this (very likely not IMO) but it's not as far fetched as some here are suggesting.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:41:18 am
content: Here is the real thing. Note that they had to perform surgery to intercept nerves to make "connections" to. You can't do this with casual skin surface contacts. And even if you could, you couldn't do arc-welding right next to it without some expectation of interference.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:52:58 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 01, 2016, 05:41:18 amYeah, that's pretty cool. I'Ve seen that before. But of course that is a few orders of magnitude different than what this guy is claiming. Finger movements, wrist flexion, pronation, supination and elbow flexion/extension, and shoulder abduction/adduction - with all those individually controlled and coordinated and bilateral!. Much, much different than the simple elbow flexion or relaxation ( passive extension) that this guy seems to be doing (and with a big, heavy pack). Its kind of like comparing building a 555 timer blinky to getting full HD video out of an FPGA.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 06:18:50 am
content: This reminds me of an article I read about 20 years ago in a local paper. It was about an arm less man. When he was about 8 years old he was at a circus in a small border town (Tecate, CA, and Tecate Mexico ). This would have been in the 40s or 50s. It surprised me because I have been to Tecate and it is hard to imagine a circus there.But anyway he admitted that he was a "smart ass" (I think normal) kid. He decided to tease a caged lion and when he got close to the cage the lion reached out and grabbed his arm and pulled him. When he got loose he bounced back to the cage and the lion got the other arm and he lost both arms. Whew !!When I am in a low mood, I think of this and how lucky I passed through childhood without loosing any of my limbs. (ps in my 20's I did loose the use of my knee on a motorcycle)

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 06:20:49 am
content: It just occured to me that what this guy may actually be doing is picking up EMG activity from scalp muscles and then using that to initiate elbow flexion of his mechanical arm. That would be pretty easy to do and he may even think he is picking up " brain waves" without realizing he is just picking up scalp muscle activity that is easily purposely initiated.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 06:42:46 am
content: Yeah, maybe. But even when researchers can implant sub-cutaneous electrodes, they still frequently conduct their experiments inside Faraday cages to prevent "normal" RFI from interfering with the signals.Even if he WAS able to get scalp signals with simple surface electrodes, it is impossible for me to believe they would be impervious to an unshielded wideband arc of hundreds of watts.

author: Theboel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 06:46:14 am
content: From what I know, yes he is Indonesian like me1. He build the mechanical hand to help him to work in his workshop by himself2. Yes he lying about his mechanical hand controlled by his brain (what ever thats mean)3. He do not have any commercial interest in what ever term (the media come and go without paying or giving something and also he do not ask for anything even he do not ask any one to come to his home)4. I proud with him that struggle to feed his family with his disability (his left hand get parallelized 6 month ago).I know some where or some one in this forum has better mechanical skill than him but build mechanical hand with whatever You has in the back yard with less than 20usd budget not something take with a funny or sarcasm word.Sorry fellow I write not because he is under same flag with me but I write because he is a father with kids like me who need feed his family.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:07:57 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 01, 2016, 06:42:46 amWhat they are doing with their electrodes is completely different. They are using fine wire electrodes inplanted into brain tissue (not subcutaneous) to pick up activity from small clusters of cells in order to allow control of several precise movements in a coordinated way. Normal EEG signals picked up at the surface of the scalp require no shielding from such interference. I designed and built a whole system to do just that thing for a University teaching lab 25 years ago. We used simple scalp electrodes ( a small thin metal disc attached to a wire) held in place by an ordinary sports headband.QuoteTrue enough. But again to be fair they did not show him doing any movement while welding did they? - Just using the prepositioned arm to hold a piece in place.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:11:11 am
content: Quote from: Theboel on February 01, 2016, 06:46:14 amThanks for that insight. Yes, some here seem a bit too quick to judge ill intent.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:21:35 am
content: The criticism here is not anything against the guy as a family man - just that what he is purporting to have achieved is bogus.That will create questions as to "Why?"For that matter - we don't know if losing control of his arm was even real, or if it was, just something temporary... but what is claimed here does not match up with what we can see.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:06:35 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 01, 2016, 07:21:35 amWatch the video again. He is not claiming very much. Just that this device allows flexion of his elbow so that his arm is not lying limp at his side ( functionally this is a huge improvement). He says he that it is simple and that he controls it with the headband. He thinks he is using "brainwaves" which is not as improbable as it sounds, though i suspect scalp muscle potentials are more likely. The article clearly say there is no grasping by the arm ( he still has some finger control). They ( not him) mention the shoulder but it looks like his shoulder musculature is intact.QuoteI completely disagree. What he says and what we see is consistent with a brachial plexus injury. In fact i have a patient with the exact same problem - there are several potential mechanisms for that kind of injury.BTW a basic " brainwave" controlled robotic arm is really just high school science fair level stuff. I think there is even a company that sells kits - I saw it at maker fair I believe.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:18:10 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 01, 2016, 08:06:35 amYou might want to actually watch the video again, carefully. The motors and hydraulics aren't even hooked up FFS! The headband is just random junk, it's not picking up his brainwaves. He even talks about how when you put on the headband and close your eyes, you see four colored lights appear in your head, which is how you control the arm. That sounds completely feasible and not made up in the slightest.Funny too that none of the reporters and other visitors who have tried can get it to work, besides him of course.Creating a metal brace to hold his arm in place can be done without 10lbs of extra junk and without a headband.He's either:1) Faking it for attention.2) Had temporary paralysis which is now gone; in which case see (1).3) Isn't actually paralyzed but still can't normally use his arm, i.e., a psychosomatic cause.4) Does actually have paralysis and actually built a working bionic arm controlled by his thoughts from a collection of scrap metal and discarded consumer electronics.Now, use Occam's Razor and tell me which of those scenarios is the most likely. If you said #1, congratulations, you're capable of logic and reasoning. If you said #4, I have a bridge in London you might be interested in buying...

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:37:08 am
content: you forgot onefaking it for having an excuse not to work.That's the one I would think is the real reason. It could be about getting money but I don't think that was the primary goal.

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:47:04 am
content: The general consensus over here is that this guy is a victim of media oversensationalism, and he maybe suffering a form of placebo effect where his hand feel better when using the "robotic arm".

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 03:31:22 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 01, 2016, 10:37:08 amYeah, that could be. He faked the arm problem so he could take a break from work, after awhile he feels guilty because his son can't buy snacks at school and his wife can't buy rice, so, oh hey look, bionic arm, I'm cured!

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 03:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 01, 2016, 10:18:10 amI've watched it a few times. I can't comment on the mechanics except to say they do show the motors functioning in one shot.QuoteIt only takes a couple of small metal discs to pick up "brainwaves" or scalp muscle activity. I can't tell exactly what the other stuff is - can you?QuoteActually it doesn't sound make up at all. People who are taught biofeedback techniques often describe very similar sensory experiences they use to gain control of whatever they are learning to do.QuoteWell, duh - he says it took him some tome to learn - which is typical of biofeedback type skills, learning to create brain alpha waves at will, or would also be expected if learning (without realizing that what you're doint) to precisely control scalp muscle activity. (the sensory experience of closing eyes and seeing lights would just be the cues he has developed to do this).Creating a metal brace to hold his arm in place can be done without 10lbs of extra junk and without a headband. (True enough - but how do you then control elbow flexion on demand? If you have to use your other hand (to push a button for example) it would interfere with any work)QuoteAll possible of course but what evidence do you have other than your lack of understanding of how the technology to might work?QuoteNo one is claiming hs is controlling anything with thoughts - that statement just means you don't understand how biofeedback techniques work. Controlling general EEG patterns is not that difficult - controlling small scalp muscles (even without realizing it) is even easier.This companyeven sells headsets that high school kids have used to control robot arms.What I think we most likely have here is western Engineers looking at a sensationalized press report of a guy who has creatively found a way to get some minimal function of of his arm after a brachial plexus injury. He used junk he had on hand an his limited mechanical and electronics skills to create a solution that may or may not be working the way he thinks it is. There's a lot of extraneous, bodged hardware - both mechanical and electronics on there that he may have tried out and just not removed - in prototype fashion.To a western Engineer - expecting a neat and tidy device - (and to whom control with brainwaves seems like magic - it's not) -it all looks totally unrealistic - but anyone who's spend significant time in the 3rd world has seen third world solutions to things that at first glance seem completely improbable but somehow actually work.I think we've all become too jaded by the Batteriser, Airing and free energy, etc type scams and always assume the worst!I'm not saying this is totally legit - all we're seeing is a short clip and typical media nonsense hype reporting - BUT what I'm saying is that it is completely realistic that someone with limited mechanical and electronics skills could patch together something that would allow using "brainwaves" to create a binary control of something like a motorized arm brace that allows elbow flexion - and if done in a third world garage it might look similar to this - which is all I see being claimed in this video

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 04:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 01, 2016, 03:55:11 pmNo. He claims the device allows *full control* of his arm. You also keep ignoring the fact that the motors and hydraulic/pneumatic actuatorsaren't even hooked up! It's just a bunch of junk on his arm.Also, I understand simple biofeedback can be accomplished quite easily with the correct hardware. As you pointed out, several companies sell headsets that allow simple tasks to be performed. Emphasis on simple tasks. On, off. Forward,back. Left, right. There's even a set of anime cat ears you wear on your head that you control.This is not that. If this guy can control all functions of an artificial arm just with a biofeedback setup, he could earn a lot of money selling the design. But he can't. Because it's not real.Useable biofeedback would at the very least require a MCU, DSP or FPGA to properly decode the signals, not to mention a decent ADC, amplifier, front end and filters. (I suppose simple on/off single task biofeedback can be done on a purely analog basis, but this guy clearly doesn't have the skill for that.)Furthermore, if you look at the headband, it appears to be made from an optical computer mouse and some sort of webcam. It's just random bits of eWaste stuck to his head! That's all it is.You can't prove to me it works, because it doesn't.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:11:12 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 01, 2016, 04:10:06 pmNo he doesn't -not in the video linked in the OP.. I just watched it again. Please specify exacty where he says that.QuoteYou must be looking at a different video than me. I do not see any shot that specifically shows the motors (presumably on his back) and the actuators I see look to be connected. Granted it also looks like there is some extraneous parts.The "junk" look is typical 3rd world getto mechanics - I've seen that before in other less sophisticated 3rd world improvised machines.QuoteI think you need to watch that video again - nowhere does he says he controls all functions of anything.QuoteNope - even I - with my intermediate hobbyist level skills could set up an Arduino mini to differentiate between alpha/no alpha waves picked up by simple scalp electrodes. Some simple front end analog signal conditioning might be needed - but nothing beyond EE 101. Scalp muscle activity would be even easier.QuoteYou have no way of knowing that. I see a headband that could be potentially used to hold a few scalp electrodes against the scalp with a small bit of electronics - thatcould possiblyhave a function use (see above)QuoteNo I can't and as I've said - it may not - I have no way to know based on that short video clip. Likewise you have no way of knowing it does not work.My point is only that it is entirely possible that something looking like that could work in the very limited (simple, not sophisticated -his words) way.BTW -Anyone with very minimal medical training could quickly prove whether or not his arm is really paralyzed. From there all it would take is showing him flexing at the elbow (without any external input) to prove it does what he says it does.Who wants to pay for me to fly over there and do a full expose?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 05:13:27 pm
content: Quote from: ArdWar on February 01, 2016, 10:47:04 amYep - sounds likely. Again - it would be very easy to prove whether or not his arm is really paralyzed. Has anyone over there done that?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 02:34:16 am
content: I think it's safe to say most of us don't believe this thing does what is claimed - and we're happy to leave it at that. I can't imagine anyone here would be prepared to fund a trip for someone to find out.If it's that important for you to defend this guy, then by all means, travel over there and do an assessment.But be warned - anybody doing so will need to be completely transparent and be able to offer evidence which can be thoroughly examined. A simple video production won't be acceptable if there is any possibility of deception.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 04:38:15 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 02, 2016, 02:34:16 amOh come on - I was joking of course.FWIW - As I've said several times - I doubt it really does what he thinks it is doing but I see no reason to doubt his motives as others here seem to. I doubt it is triggering movement of the arm brace off of his "brainwaves" but not because I think that is difficult to do - as several here seem to think - but because there are other, more probable explanations.I think there's just been so many scams discussed here that people assume that everyone is out to scam the technologically uninformed public. Most of the cases discussed here that is true - from solar roadways to the Batteriser, the Airing or the multiple "free energy" scams. It just happens that in this case the underlying technology needed to trigger something with "brainwaves" and the consequences of brachial plexus injuries are things I have some professional experience and knowledge of (unlike most of the more technical EE issues on this forum!) and something that the average EE will not have a background in. Iknowthat the very limited claims he makes in the video would not be hard to do. I also am making a judgement (admittedly just an opinion) that this poor guy sitting in his welding shop in an Indonesian slum is not out to scam the public but a victim of media hype.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 04:49:44 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 02, 2016, 04:38:15 amThat's how the media run. Whatever it takes to get saleable attention.

author: han
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 05:39:05 am
content: Problem with engineering is the real people who done extraordinary job mostly never exposed.There is a biggap between common people and real engineer, and since people is always enthusiastic about ordinary people make a something out of ordinary the outcome is many scam or hype in the media.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 05:32:09 pm
content: Someone should stab him in the arm with a pin and see if he moves his it. He probably has control of it.