O'Scope Verdict - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2013, 04:27:29 am
content: Regardless of price difference what would you choose for a serious project?Tektronix TDS2024C 200 MHz 2 GSa/s 2.5 Kpts 4 ChannelsAgilent DSO1024A 200 MHz 2 GSa/s (half-channel) 20 Kpts (half-channel) 4 ChannelsBK Precision model 2557 200 MHz 2 GSa/s (half-channel) 24 Kpts 4 ChannelsRigol DS1204B 200 MHz 2 GSa/s (half-channel) 16 Kpts (half-channel) 4 ChannelsRigol DS4024 200 MHz 4 GSa/s 14 Mpts 4 Channels (This is a bit more expensive than the others)Thanks.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2013, 04:31:42 am
content: Quote from: Jozef on May 24, 2013, 04:27:29 amYour list doesn't make sense. The Rigol 4000 is the clear standout, of course you'd have that "regardless of price"QuoteA pathetic joke in today's marketQuoteRebadged Rigol, forget it.QuoteAnother low memory rebadger.QuoteOld design. Looks at the new DS2000 series.QuoteA bit more expensive?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2013, 02:35:30 pm
content: Buy the Rigol DS4024 if you have enough money. But it's even more expensive than some Agilent DSOX series

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2013, 03:54:03 pm
content: Before you buy, keep your eye on this seller for a few weeks at least:LINKLook for anything thats Premium Used. Thats Agilents official eBay store and their prices are unbeatable and they come brand new with full new warranty AND theyll always take less than theyre asking. I got a brand new condition MSOX2024A for $1850, the VGA/LAN module for $150 and then jumped on the buy one get one free upgrade promotion thats going on right now for a few upgrades.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2013, 05:01:08 pm
content: I'd choose the one with a display which has at least 640x480 pixels (VGA) and >50kpts of memory. That will put you in $3k teritory though...

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 05:31:42 am
content: Excellent. I will keep an eye on Agilent eBay used ones. I know Rigol can be tempting for the price, but quality wise still not sure...Thanks!

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 02:12:00 pm
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on May 24, 2013, 03:54:03 pmNot to imply that the deal's on eBay aren't good, but those two terms ('used' / 'brand new') are mutually exclusive. The Agilent that YOU bought might 'look' brand new - but that doesn't guarantee that every single one sold does. Granted it has full warranty - and they're not going to sell units with major cosmetic damage - but the ad specifically states, "Ex-demo and off-lease units, typically less than 3 years old" - meaning youmightbe buying a DSO that's over 2 years old already - and I assume might have some slight wear-and-tear.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 02:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: Jozef on May 25, 2013, 05:31:42 amQuality wise, their new UltraVision DSOs are excellent - and Rigol seem as if they're becoming more responsive to their customer's complaints and desires: the latest FW has fixed every single bug that we have spotted and posted here - as well as changed some things that weren't bugs per se, but that we users didn't like.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 03:37:40 pm
content: Not sure exactly what the user requirements might be, but in addition to the Rigols and Agilents these sure do look good:http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/oscilloscopes/gds-2204a.htmhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/oscilloscopes/gds-2104a.htmhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/oscilloscopes/gds-2102a.htmhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/oscilloscopes/gds-2072a.htmNote the coupon code for 15% off.So, you could start as low as $711 (if you could live with 2 channels 70 MHz) or at $1668 (if you needed 4 channels 200MHz) and have a path to what looks like a strong integrated MSO/Logic Analyzer capability (if Greg ever tell us about it).Just sayin'In the U.S. I think the DS2-8LA goes for about $570, the DS2-16LA goes for about $830, and the DS2-LAN Ethernet/SVGA adpater goes for about $280 - all list prices so there might be some further room to help keep the price down.http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/instek/pdf/gds-2000a.pdf

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 03:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on May 25, 2013, 03:37:40 pm

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 03:42:08 pm
content: If you can hold off a bit new DS4000s are about it hit, 1-2 months. Only thing new they mentioned was integrated logic analyzer, but there are likely other improvements as well.

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2013, 06:14:08 pm
content: Maybe I should wait for the new stuff from Rigol.I mean by quality: bug-free, heavy and water-proof.

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 04:26:18 am
content: After watching this:and reading the comments...not sure if I should consider anything other than Tek/LeCroy/Agilent/R&SReliability, accuracy, quality and heavy duty are my primary concerns.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 02:47:12 pm
content: Those TDS1000, TBS1000 or TDS2000 scopes are so dated. But they sometimes have good 2GS/s ADCs... They are suitable only for simple school use.I would never buy it for home use...Have you seen this?The scope has a slow waveform update rate and a WTF short memory of 2.5kpoints per channel. And even no delayed swep (or zoom) mode.No feature like this:

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 05:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: Jozef on May 25, 2013, 06:14:08 pmWater-proof??? The Fluke ScopeMeters would be the only ones that I might consider putting near water. You can always strap a brick to them to make them heavier.Quote from: Jozef on May 26, 2013, 04:26:18 amAccuracy is not generally a concern for scopes. Measurements are often based on displayed waveform (<800x600px) information. The time base and trigger counter accuracy might be able to get close to a dedicated frequency counter with the cheapest possible reference clock (~10-50 ppm). Amplitude accuracy might be 1-3% on a good day. For DC. And might be 30% down at its rated frequency. I suggest you do some more research in what an oscilloscope is before you spend your money.Heavy-duty: if trained monkeys should be able to operate the scope, then I would again refer to the Fluke ScopeMeters. Performance/$, specs, features and UI will definitely be inferior to bench scopes, though.

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 06:49:49 pm
content: QuoteYou missed the point. You need to do some basic reading on equipment quality.QuoteJust because you have different specs, it does not mean others don't know what an oscilloscope does.QuoteYou missed the point again. And stop interpreting every termliterally.One more notice, the push for Asian o'scope culture is very obvious.Thanks.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 09:27:16 pm
content: Quote from: Jozef on May 26, 2013, 06:49:49 pmExpecting a bench scope to be anything close to water-proof is ridiculous. Some might feel better than others, but I wouldn't describe any of the current bench scopes as heavy-duty. These are not your (grand)father's Tek 500 series scopes.Quote from: Jozef on May 26, 2013, 06:49:49 pmCan you name a scope where accuracy is specced across the full bandwidth? Or are you only interested in DC?Quote from: Jozef on May 26, 2013, 06:49:49 pmThe scopes you listed were either completely outdated designs (Tek TDS2000), rebadged Asian models or Asian models. Essentially all of the cheap scopes are made and designed in Asia. Is it biased to prefer a modern design like the Rigol DS2000/4000 over essentially fifteen year old designs like the Tek TDS2000? Compare the Tek TDS2000 to the TDS224, which was released in the late nineties. The extra features are mainly gimmicks like USB connectivity and probe setup wizards.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2013, 09:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: Jozef on May 26, 2013, 06:49:49 pmAnd people are supposed interpret words how? Musically? People can only respond to words in the literal sense here.Yes, in the scope range you are talking about almost everything is made in the east. And Tek is doing nothing worth buying, Your specs or those of someone else, they are not competitive,

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2013, 04:12:22 am
content: Tek Tek Tek Tek Tek....Tek

author: Jozef
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2013, 04:26:36 am
content: QuoteSo you decided to be the representative of all people here and smart mouth for them...I see.Because only in the "literal sense" means a below-average IQ O0

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2013, 05:47:03 am
content: I was trying to say that if you want people to understand what you mean, use the correct words. Don't expect people who are from many different backgrounds here to understand innuendo or implied meaning when all they have are your words, as in the literary, to understand what you are saying or asking.You will also find better cooperation when you don't attack people for answering your questions.