Iwatsu SS-5710 60MHz - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: percival477
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 11:48:40 pm
content: Tried my hand at a fifty dollar bay oscilloscope. Traces do not show up on the crt unless find beam is pressed, then two short vertical lines are shown stacked on each other. I have the service manual but am unsure of how to proceed. Any advice.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 01:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: percival477 on February 27, 2019, 11:48:40 pmWell I guess you've just learnt the first golden rule for buying on ebay. Never buy anything unless it is shown working. Please take detailed photos of the front controls and post them on here. That way we can see where the controls are positioned, ie rotary switches, push buttons etc. It might just be set up wrongly. I used to have one and it is a bit difficult setting it up.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 01:00:42 pm
content: Here's an op/service manual for the 5711 for pretty reasonable:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Iwatsu-SS-5711-Oscilloscope-Op-Service-Manual-w-schematics-Original-VGC/283372271640

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 01:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: precaud on March 01, 2019, 01:00:42 pmThe OP has the manual, he's seeking advice on what to look for etc. It may be that one of the controls is in the wrong mode, hence why I requested that they post some pictures so I can see where they are set.

author: percival477
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 03:18:10 pm
content: I kind of got it working. Taking it out of xy mode helps. However I only have been able to get channel one and channel two working. Ill need to see if I can calibrate what I have since I had to fiddle with the calibration to get here so far. The phosphor is not that absorbent in that one can not see the rise up time on a square wave. The scope also only works when the trigger is on auto and not normal or reset.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 06:08:16 pm
content: Quote from: percival477 on March 01, 2019, 03:18:10 pmThat's because the trigger is dependant on other settings apart from Auto. Channel 3 and 4 are only active when certain other settings are activated and also only have 2 sensetivity settings which are selected by the push buttons in the top row for each channel. Like I said before, it's not an easy scope to learn on and I get the feeling that this is your first scope, is that correct?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 06:54:16 pm
content: May find this guide useful, if you PM me with your email address I can email you a copy of the instruction and service manual, its too large to posted here.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 08:52:51 pm
content: I think Iwatsu is a fine scope and was the first one I bought used. It is more advanced for a beginner, but I was able to figure out all the controls use all the channels. Mine had the frequency counter and DMM options. The HV block started leaking so I sold it. Biggest mistake!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 11:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on March 01, 2019, 08:52:51 pmYes, I regret selling mine, the front panel is a thing of beauty, however the one I replaced it with is a very capable machine in its own right, a PM 3390B but not as quiet as the Iwatsu.

author: percival477
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 12:13:33 am
content: This is my first scope. I mainly just wanted two channels and I thought this could potentially be a good deal. With the two main channels working, I will get it into calibration. What do the coupling features do for channel 3 and 4? Also, the trace seems unreasonable bright even though it is at its lowest setting.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 12:48:53 am
content: Quote from: percival477 on March 02, 2019, 12:13:33 amThe coupling features for the 3rd and 4th channels doe the same as those for 1st and 2nd channels do and the controls for 3rd and 4th are at the top adjacent to the BNC sockets for the input to each channel, AC and DC coupling and 0.1V and 1V per division for each channel.

author: percival477
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 02:37:13 pm
content: What would make this scope different from a beginner scope?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 04:14:26 pm
content: Generally speaking a beginners scope would be a far less complicated affair with either 1 or 2 channels only and limited bandwidth and options. By your own admissions you find that certain aspects of this particular scope difficult to get to grips with and that for a very good reasons as this was back in the day considered to be a advanced scope more for the professional user.Perhaps this short video may highlight more to you what is a beginners model, I myself started off with this model which is considerably more basic than the SS5710 scope you have.https://www.rapidonline.com/rapid-7020a-20mhz-dual-channel-oscilloscope-85-2200although mine was 2nd hand and cost me £120.Which as you can see is a dual channel, 20MHz unit with no delay timebase or others functions as you have on the SS5710.There is no reason why it is not possible to start with a SS5710 or even a very expensive unit such ashttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/product/rto-productstartpage_63493-10790.htmlbut the learning curve on such a unit is far far steeper and the likelyhood of it being totally wrecked because of a rooky error is huge, but thats fine if you can afford to throw away £12,800 everytime you make a mistake in connecting it up etc.Generally I believe that it is far more preferable to start of with a real real cheap and cheerful scope and move onto something a bit more sophisticated and higher bandwidth etc, maybe even a digital scope and thats another level again with its cursors and built in measurements and maths functions etc. once you actually what it is that you are looking for from an oscilloscope, it might just for for simple audio work and you find that the basic scope covers all the bases nicely, who knows?EDIT. I attach a better photograph of my first oscilloscope and as you can very clearly see it is a far simpler one to learn on and make your mistakes on rather than blowing the front end out on a expensive and more capable scope

author: percival477
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 04:40:56 am
content: Well it was $35 off of eBay so it seemed like a good deal. However I can't get it to synchronize with the test signal, and I can only see the top and bottom of the test signal at 1 ms/ div. The first clearer image is with alt on, and the second image is with alt off.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 07:58:36 am
content: Quote from: percival477 on March 04, 2019, 04:40:56 amWell the price is good for the scope but it dosent make it any simpler for you to use it. It has way to many controls and settings to make it ideal to learn on. The photos look OK to me as will not see the vertical lines joining the top and bottom of the display because it is happening so fast. This is the built-in test signal yes? That is a square wave and one of the top and bottom lines forms 1 cycle or hertz and it is switching that on and off at 1,000 times a second. Try changing the time base to micro seconds and you will get fewer cycles on the screen. If you go all the way to right with the time base you will only see a fient almost horizontal line and that is also normal because you are now looking at at a very small part of a cycle and the vertical lines are now visible because the time base is even able to look a portion of that line and will appear as a slowly rising or falling line depending on which edge of the wave is selected on the slope button. If you move the horizontal position control left and right you will see this line change slightly again normal. More on this later, I gave to go now.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 02:26:20 pm
content: If you connect your probe to the inbuilt test terminal, input volts selector on CH1 to 0.2v/div and the timebase to 1ms, GND button on CH1 is out, ALT is pressed in, the MODE AUTO button is pressed in, SOURCE, CH1 pressed in, HORIZONTAL DISPLAY A is pressed in then you should get a display like in your photos, displayed on the screen. Changinging the main timebase (biggest timebase knob) you should get a display similar to the one shown in my video. As the timebase gets set to a faster setting, then you notice that the screen displays less information on the screen until you end up with a faint line almost horizontal as in my video.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 08:26:29 pm
content: Don't get discouraged learning on this scope. I too found some of the extra features complicated, but the basics of what needs to be set will be the same. I think rather than try to figure out all the features of the scope, just take it task for what you want to measure and if you get stuck or have questions, someone here will certainly help.You should just focus on setting the amplitude and understand sweep and most important trigger settings. Those other features won't get in the way of that.

author: percival477
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 05, 2019, 12:30:05 am
content: I followed along with the video but still was unable to git the vertical components of the square wave.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2019, 02:33:33 am
content: Like I said in the PM, thats the beauty of the 30 odd years age difference between them, the vertical lines are there but very faint. It is also an area where digital have the advantage but the waveforms are also inherently noiser.I attach 2 photos of the Fluke display 100Hz square wave in analogue and digital that clearly demonstrate this, but in reality for 99.99% of instances, the vertical lines are not going to be mission critical at this juncture, so you can forget it. (note) if you turn up the screen brightness and play around with the timebase settings will be able to see vertical lines easier.