Adding a solder port to a solder station - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 06:36:59 pm
content: I have a solder station with one soldering iron port. Hakko refers to it as a port and Pace refers to it as channel. Would anyone know if it would be possible to splice into an existing solder port and add an extra port?I notice the CB / microphone 6 or 8 pin connectors could be bought and the power supply seems to have more than enough power to support a couple extra ports. All I would need then is to splice into the existing port but I'm not sure if all the components on the board would support it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 06:41:59 pm
content: And what's the point? It's not like soldering station can control 2 soldering irons simultaneously. Nor it's transformer has enough power for two.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 25, 2020, 06:41:59 pmThe point is it's a nice solder station and basically new. It's a 750W unit. There's one other alternative with two ports in the same price point but it has a cheap display, no memory to quickly switch from leaded to lead free solder, and it's only 500W.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:09:07 pm
content: Yes, but there is "stuff" (aka "electronics") inside, which regulates your iron. Most likely a single channel station only has electronics for one channel (iron).So where do you add a second iron? Driving both from the same circuit will not work (obviously).

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:22:24 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on October 25, 2020, 07:09:07 pmYes I'm trying to confirm if the components would have a problem with it and I was thinking about splicing into the existing port. If there's a problem, maybe I could add a switch to flip between port 1 solder and 2 which I could use to desolder. If I was using port 2 to desolder, I would still need to match the wiring but that's been done by others before.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:26:48 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 07:02:12 pmAre you talking about hot air station or what? There are no soldering (iron) stations of such power.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:28:10 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 07:22:24 pmDo you not understand there is a temperature sensor in the iron and power is supplied to it according to temperature readings?

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:44:51 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 06:36:59 pmWhy don't you take it apart and see what's inside the soldering station? If there is a filling board for the second soldering iron?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:47:55 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 25, 2020, 07:44:51 pmEven if there is something, it's not like it is supported in firmware. So even if you populate missing parts, it won't help.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 07:59:23 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 25, 2020, 07:28:10 pmYes, it is also a hot air station with one soldering iron. No I don't understand how adding a second iron would be a problem. I was hoping for a clear technical explanation explaining how the circuits generally work.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 08:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 25, 2020, 07:47:55 pmQuite true. But then there will be a certain plan and tasks: search for firmware or a way to tell the firmware about the presence of two soldering irons, for example.The author didn't even specify the model. Perhaps this is some simple Lykey. They just characterize themselves as a power of 500, 700W.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 08:10:02 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 07:59:23 pmThen power you stated has nothing to do with soldering iron. Temperature is controlled by closed loop system. If you attach second heater, besides transformer being too weak to power both, you cannot take temperature readings from both heaters. And iron without temperature control will either overheat heavily when you try soldering something heavy with another iron (with temp. sensor used). Or will be barely able to melt solder when you try soldering with it. But with temperature sensors connected in parallel, both irons will operate badly.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 08:22:15 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 07:59:23 pmIf you do not want to change the soldering irons in the output socket, add a second socket and select the sockets with a switch, then you need the second soldering iron to be exactly the same design. There are different designs, different characteristics of the heating element, different characteristics of the thermocouple and the presence of additional sensors in the soldering iron handle, as well as the circuit of the thermocouple is sometimes in series with the heating element, sometimes a separate wire.Why don't you specify the model? There are probably people here who know your model inside.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 08:27:26 pm
content: due to OP's persistence even after few nay-advices.. how about we help him doing the mod? if he burn it, we got nothing to lose, it will be educational for any of us and OP in the process, furthermore if its burnt the OP can buy a brand name new and more quality 2 ports station which should be good for him and the manufacturers. ok lets start... first step is, dismantle the product and take a snapshot picture of the pcb esp near the one port or channel you have and post the picture here, if possible with product outer apperance too (model and brand and if any place to add port 2) we can help! we can do anything! but without picture, there is no more i can help, cheers. (DISCLAIMER!!! we should not be held responsible if the OP burn/damage his unit of injure/kill himself in the process, nor any other bad consequences... deal?)

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 09:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 25, 2020, 08:22:15 pmI didn't realise it was important since they're all essentially the same. It's a WEP 992DA+. I can find replacement soldering irons and desolding guns that I'm interested to use. I'm aware of the different heating elements and number of wires used in the various desoldering gun models. I cam move them around and match them with the soldering station. The main tasks to overcome is the station itself.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 09:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 08:27:26 pmWell, it's not good to take no for an answer, say from your parents, if they simply say no without a clear and rational explanation. That's not how you overcome challenges and succeed in life.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 09:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 08:27:26 pmThey don't allow me to up[load a picture of the board. It's likely I don't have enough posts.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 09:44:51 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 09:11:30 pmI already said several reasons. If you want jump from the cliff, you will say the same about suggestion that you should not? You have completely no idea how station functions or even about it's power rating yet you want to be left with zero working stations instead of one.QuoteYour file should be too large.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 09:57:02 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 25, 2020, 09:44:51 pmI hope you can see from my perspective they sound general and vague. Maybe something like, the transistors, resistors, capacitors, triac, pcb etc serves these functions and capabilities and therefore they aren't capable of supporting an additional soldering iron. And maybe the picture of the board would help, which I was able to upload.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 09:57:02 pmIt shows there is no functionality to support another iron.QuoteHow easy do you think it is to attach another pair of wheels to a car which has no provision for such upgrade in it's design?

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 25, 2020, 10:08:24 pmI guess you're not seeing it from my level. If you tell a toddler why they can't do something, they'll always respond with why? Things my be obvious to you and many here, but not everyone, but yeah I can accept there's no functionality, but I'll never know exactly why.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 09:19:25 pmgood! but thats not very helpful,which pin goes to where? i guess B and E are where the hot air and older iron are connected, correct? A and C should provide power to E and B respectively correct? can you fill what the others "?"s? i'm guesssing H and I are high voltage power elements? whats the numbering labelled on the body? please note there are D,F,G optocoupler that means there are high voltage involved so be extra careful.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 10:14:37 pmI said why. Each iron needs it's own separate temperature control loop and there is not enough power in transformer to power 2 irons. To attach another iron basically you will need to squeeze another full blown soldering station in the same enclosure.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 10:14:37 pmeverybody with experience here should agree with wraper. in case of a car, if you want to add 5th wheel, you will not just add the wheel, you have to add the arm, absorber, bolting to body everything. in case of your station, you have to add the optocoupler, power elements (fet or/and triac) and everything identical supporting elements resistors, diodes everything to your pcb. knobs to control, and modify firmware if your station have one mcu. can you do that?in case you cant (which all of us suspect you will as we all wont dare get into the hassle) we always have another way, you can parallel port connection, ie power wires of your soldering iron, but you cant parallel heat sensor's (sort of resistor divider) wire because of Ohm Law, your iron temperature will go either extra red hot or blue cold. and you also risk damaging your power elements because 1 power elements can only have burden 1 solder iron. if you put 2, it could breakrendering you have to buy a new one.of course we cant stop you if you still want to try to see what will happen and find a reason that we usually have encountered. cheers happy learning.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:31:35 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 10:19:44 pmNow we're getting somewhere. That's not my board, but it's the same. What is C? But it should tie to B, which is the header for the soldering iron. As for E, which is my area of interest, it is an unused header and it looks similar to B. Is this where I can attach an additional soldering iron? I think H & I and the nearby headers support the hot air gun and the pump. So what's A and does it support E like you mentioned? If so, that's an extra unused slot.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 10:31:12 pmThanks. Very helpful.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 10:31:35 pmnot your board? so we are not getting anywhere... we should wait until your real board arrive and snapshot the real thing..Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 10:31:35 pmyou said your station is WEP 992DA+ thats a "hot air" and "solder iron" unit and desoldering pump (maybe) and smoke suction. there are more to drive there than just 2. hot air will need dedicated power thats why i suspect E, solder iron is another identical powerfull element i'm guessing B, other connectors probably motor and pump. then how can you say E is unused? then where the hot air connection goes? and its power element?

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:48:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 10:40:44 pmI can't get a good angle at my board without taking the entire thing out but I can see E is unused. But that picture is basically my board. For now, there's not much point taking my board out and going too far when that picture is the same. Yes, hot air, soldering iron and smoke suction.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:50:52 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 09:09:34 pmThis appears to be a version of the very common T-900 system. Dave broke down a similar station:It is very easy to find a handle with a heating element of this type and you can really use a second handle by installing an additional connector and a switch on 2 groups of contacts to select the active soldering iron.I had a similar station for a very long time ago, I can make a mistake, but there is only a heating element and a thermocouple in the handle, which are connected to the connector by separate wires and the ground wire of the tip.Whether this will be useful, I doubt. Only if you have no money at all and can only buy a hsmdle for $3.I recommend that you pay attention to the T-12 system. It is significantly better and not very expensive from Chinese friends.For examplehttps://aliexpress.ru/item/32945257770.htmlas second iron.The T-900 can only work tolerably with fully copper tips, and it is always necessary to inflate the temperature.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:53:36 pm
content: wraper you are jumping up and down on newbies headhqbert read on the principle of operation of a typical digital control temperature controlled soldering iron:https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/projects/do-it-yourself-soldering-station-with-an-atmega8/yes, you need whole bunch of electronics and smarts for each additional connected soldering wand.First lets start by stating the obvious. WEP 992DA+ is pretty shit, especially at $200 it actually delivers lower value than buying same crap components separately, not that you would want those crap components in the first place. Hakko 907/908 is ancient technology, and clones are even worse than original, 937D $30 sold separately. Then you get bundled bottom of the barrel 858D $50 worth of hotair. "suction" vacuum is just useless gimmick.If you want dual soldering irons thishttps://hackaday.io/project/162676-dual-t-12-station/detailsis a good ghetto starter pack. $15 gets you DIY handle + controller using best under ~$500 technology available today, Hakko T12 integrated tip/heater cartridges.$36 will get you assembled station with free shippinghttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-T12-Soldering-Welding-Iron-Station-75W-OLED-Temperature-Controller-Kit/113691926456https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Digital-Soldering-Iron-Station-T12-Tip-Handle-Controller-110V-220V-For-HAKKO/223524763501

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 10:56:49 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 25, 2020, 10:53:36 pmAwesome thank you. Let me read over and try to comprehend all that stuff.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 11:01:19 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 25, 2020, 10:50:52 pmlink corrected...https://aliexpress.ru/item/32945257770.htmlbut that is $40, not $3... btw, i always use $10 iron, sweet!and another YIHUA 908D standing by if i want quick startup. hot air is entirely separate YOUYUE 8858 because i learnt a lesson from KADA 852AD+

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 11:08:02 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 25, 2020, 10:53:36 pmIt seems to me that the author of the topic does not want to use two soldering irons at the same time, he wants to connect the second one and select the active one with the toggle switch.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 11:13:33 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 25, 2020, 11:08:02 pmIdeally two simultaneous connections but if I can get away switching one out for the other with a flip of a switch, it's still a benefit.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 11:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 11:13:33 pmYour station will definitely not be able to support 2 soldering irons at the same time.Only select the active switch or replace the connectors with quick-set ones.When I bought the T-12 station, I was thinking of changing the connectors so that I could easily change the handle. Good connectors cost half the price of a station. The T-12 has handles to quickly change the tip in one movement, but this is also inconvenient: for thick tips, a large handle with a nut for fixing is convenient, and for small work, a thin handle with a small tip removal is better. And, moreover, after changing the tip, you need to manually select its type to adjust the temperature profile, they do not have automatic identification - this is also inconvenient.In the end, I bought a second station.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 11:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 10:19:44 pmAs I look furtherA is L7805CV.H & C are BT137.I is BTA16.D & G reads M003041 427QF reads M0C3021 431QCan someone explain what these do? I'm guessing they regulate power to the hot air, soldering iron and pump, although I don't understand the purpose of A & E.The 2-pin header on the right top go to the transformer.The 2-pin headers on the right bottom three go to the 110V and power switch.The 4 pin header at the top controls the hot air flow dial.The three 2-pin headers at the bottom are for the solder, vacuum and hot air on/off switches.The 3-pin header at the bottom goes to the hot air gun.The two 2-pin headers on the left go to the transformer.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2020, 11:57:39 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 25, 2020, 11:34:39 pmI just saw this. Thanks. This may be the reality but it would still be nice to know what all those parts do.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 01:13:46 am
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 07:59:23 pmBear in mind that it’s not the responsibility of the forum to teach you both the generalities of how circuits work AND the technical details of why it won’t work here.Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 10:14:37 pmQuoteYou also need to accept that as averybeginner, the concise but accurate explanations probably won’t mean anything to you. Just like when a toddler asks “where do babies come from”, you don’t go into the details of ova, spermatozoa and the double-helix and why we need genetic diversity to protect the species against harmful genetic mutations. You say “the mommy and the daddy make love and 9 months later the baby comes”, and then iteratively go into more detail and accuracy as the child grows older.Remember also that a toddler’s “why” and your “well Iwantit to be possible so I’ll just repeat the question” aren’t the same thing.Not trying to go hard on you, just making sure you think about why you’ve gotten the pushback you got. It’s great that you’re curious, but be respectful of others’ time by not insisting on details that are still way over your head. Electronics is complex and there’s tons to learn, and you have to start with truly understanding the basics and working from there.As for the components: google the part numbers to find the datasheets and read the introductions, as well as to find others’ circuits that use them. That’ll give you an idea of what they do.

author: aqibi2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 01:20:20 am
content: OP is truly ridiculous

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 01:30:14 am
content: Quote from: tooki on October 26, 2020, 01:13:46 amSorry but being around forums, never expect anyone to provide an A to an Q&A. But that's why people chat in forums, to get information and learn. No? Look through every thread that's been started and it's a question to get an answer. But right off the bat before I made a comment, Wrapper provides a pissy response. Look through all his post and you'll see he's pissy in nature to everyone.Honestly, I never expected any response really and I've been around a few forums to know many posts go unanswered and nobody can seriously expect any kind of legal repercussion for making any kind of posts, whether it's a Q or A. But yes I've seen all those datasheets but they don't put the parts in context or use case as a whole.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 01:51:32 am
content: I don't understand why someone is annoyed by forum posts. Yes, there really can be beginners, there can be children and people who do not have enough money to buy expensive equipment. If someone doesn't like the topic or doesn't like communication, you can just keep silent and ignore it. No one forces. All professionals were not born like this and also once received help.

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 01:56:13 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on October 26, 2020, 01:51:32 amWell I think this case is closed. Thanks to everyone who tried to chime in, even wraper for being the first. I thought this forum was dead and not too popular.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 01:58:46 am
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 25, 2020, 11:56:33 pmyou probably being lucky if you really have one unused section for another soldering iron, you have 3 power triacs there, but i dont know one of them may power the suction motor or something else. i have feeling this triacs will feed directly to heaters of you soldering iron and hot air, which means you are dealing with risk of contact with lethal voltage 110V, this if not taken careful or by unlucky, can kill you. to be sure, you need to dismantle your unit and see the connection inside, also for us to analyze the possibility. but then you have mcu controlled display, if you are lucky again, the firmware may auto detect if 2nd iron is installed and display it on screen, if unlucky, you out of luck if no programming skill. make sure the device is totally disconnected from mains electricity before dismantling unit. (and again disclaimer: we will not be held responsible for any of this, its dangerous voltage you have been warned)https://cdn.datasheetspdf.com/pdf-down/B/T/1/BT137-600E_PhilipsSemiconductors.pdfhttps://cdn.datasheetspdf.com/pdf-down/B/T/A/BTA16-CDIL.pdf

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 02:02:12 am
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 26, 2020, 01:30:14 amRead my messages carefully and you will find all the answers. No one is interested in dealing with this chinese board. It is not very good and does not differ fundamentally from dozens of similar ones. Maybe later a person who has already done this will appear and share their knowledge. But there won't be anything useful for you, I think. If you are very interested, figure it out yourself - this will give you experience and maybe you can tell someone later.Next time, write in the beginners section - it will be clear that you need a detailed explanation.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 02:28:33 am
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 26, 2020, 01:56:13 amare there bigger, more active electronic dedicated ones?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 03:21:02 am
content: we still waiting for the teardown picture...

author: hqbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:40:51 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 26, 2020, 02:28:33 amYou're probably interpreting incorrectly. I don't know anything about any electronic repair forum and I certainly didn't expect any responses to my post.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2020, 06:31:54 pm
content: Is this your board?Right south of the model number on the PCB, there seems to be one dodgy solder joint (might be a reflection, though). As well as several on the east and north side of the board, which have no solder at all (but might be soldered from the bottom). Certainly check those...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2020, 07:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on October 28, 2020, 06:31:54 pmThose are buttons and display which are soldered from the opposite side.

author: Squoip
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 12:48:37 am
content: Now we're getting somewhere. That's not my board, but it's the same. What is C? But it should tie to B, which is the header for the soldering iron. As for E, which is my area of interest, it is an unused header and it looks similar to B. Is this where I can attach an additional soldering iron? I think H & I and the nearby headers support the hot air gun and the pump. So what's A and does it support E like you mentioned? If so, that's an extra unused slot.First of all, that PCB is from a Xtronic 9020. It may be the same as your unit, but unless the part number is the same, it's not the same. The board does not have support for a second iron. If you look at the components on the board, what do you have? If there were multiple slots for multiple irons, you would see duplicated circuits, but there isn't anything like that on the board. Look up the datasheet for C. I bet it's a triac since there's a MOC3041 right next to it. A MOC3041 is a zero crossing triac driver which indicates it's used for on/off control of an AC device, not for phase shift. You need to do some investigation with a DMM to see what's tied to what. I can fairly confidently say B-C is not the same relationship as A-E since there's no triac driver near A. There are four power components, likely for: Soldering Iron, Fume Extractor Pump, Hot Air Heater, Hot Air Fan. With the exception of the vacuum pump, all should be variable speed/heat.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 01:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: hqbert on October 26, 2020, 01:30:14 amThere are tons and tons and tons of answered questions here. If you find that you often don't get answers to your questions, or that you don't like the kinds of answers you get, consider thatmaybe you're asking the wrong questions and giving the wrong responses.Quote from: hqbert on October 26, 2020, 01:30:14 amWraper tends to be brusque, terse, and stubborn (I've had many a disagreement with him), but "pissy" is certainly not an adjective that applies. And in this thread, his responses may be terse, but they're exactly right.Quote from: hqbert on October 26, 2020, 01:30:14 amDafuck you talking about? Legal repercussions? Is that a veiled threat? Is it your goal to alienate the entire forum?Quote from: hqbert on October 26, 2020, 01:30:14 amManydotell you what they're commonly used for. But note that I specifically said …"as well as to find others' circuits that use them. That'll give you an idea of what they do."