SONY advertises "high quality sound solder" in their Walkman - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 10:17:25 pm
content: High Quality Sound Solder Containing Gold for improved sound localisation and a wider sound stage. I guess SAC305 with silver is not good enough any more.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 10:36:05 pm
content: Nice board.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 12:40:55 am
content: They probably meant that you couldn't use solder that was made for repairing automobile bodies or for repairing automobile radiators. You'd be surprised at how many have tried to repair electronics with those!

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 02:20:18 am
content: I'll wait for the book to come out.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 12:42:22 pm
content: Maybe they're counting the Gold leached off the ENIG coated pads.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 06:48:06 pm
content: Quote from: owiecc on January 21, 2023, 10:17:25 pmI guess this mainly shows that it takes some doing to still sell dedicated MP3 (etc.) players to people, in a day and age where nearly everyone is carrying a suitable phone in their pocket all day. Specifically, it takes some audiophoolery, smoke, and mirrors...400 and 800 Euros -- they certainly aren't shy about the audio-phoolish pricing either.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 07:09:44 pm
content: Well I have a few thoughts on this1) the usual linking everything together in the cell phone kinda sucks. Entirely situation dependent if its appropriate. The cell phone has many downsides, but it does usually work, so that is the usual swiss army knife vs normal knife argument that I don't get into. This is like arguing about someone elses budget/luxury (I am sure everyone can get 'busted' for something related to luxury goods)2) gold solder does have its uses but doubtful it will effect audio quality much, it might allow the device to take a bigger impact thoughhttps://www.indium.com/products/solders/gold/If applied properly I can certainly appreciate the lower chance of stress failure of solder joints inside of portable equipment.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 07:41:52 pm
content: If that makes it more reliable, what's not to like?Nothing wrong with good and reliable products. Whether one considers them overengineered is somewhat subjective.And as was said above, competing with current solutions will of course take some extra. That's the kind of markets that the highly developed countries still have a chance with.As to marketing talk, it's marketing talk. It's not any worse or better for low-cost products than it is for these "high-end" ones. That's marketing.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 07:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 22, 2023, 07:41:52 pmWell, but does it? It is "Sound Solder containing Gold", according to Sony. Nobody said anything about the 80Au20Sn alloys which coppercone2 Googled.I am confident that it adds as much value to the Walkman as do the "Full Digital Amplifier", the "Solid High Polymer Capacitor", and the "OFC Milled Block for clear sound".Edit: Thats OFC as in "oxygen-free copper", by the way. For a shielding can. And it is "reflow solder containing gold, whose effect is significant in the overall improved sound localization and wider sound space." Did anyone mention audiophoolery yet?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 08:16:53 pm
content: The ad is clearly targeting audiophools, but audiophools are not into walkman type of gear, are they.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 08:26:17 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 22, 2023, 12:42:22 pmhopefully, because much more than that makes solder brittle

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 08:27:35 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 22, 2023, 08:16:53 pmTrying to move that brand up-market, I guess, since the "bread and butter" users are all happily using their phones as audio players.Would have loved to eavesdrop on the marketing discussions. "We need to leverage the power of the established Walkman brand!" -- "But that's not our new target audience..." -- "Let's call it the Strutman then!"

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 08:32:38 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 22, 2023, 07:57:40 pmOh I don't know for sure. Maybe not. But I have no doubt the devices are well engineered nevertheless.The rest is marketing as I said.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 11:30:19 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 22, 2023, 08:27:35 pmOnline price is $999.00AUDThat's ridiculous. The whole thing kind of reminds me of when the iPhone showed up.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 08:22:36 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 22, 2023, 08:27:35 pmThey sell those "new" MP3 players for quite some time now - and mostly pretty expensive.Likehttps://www.amazon.de/dp/B09S12NP2LI like the dedication, but most of it is just Audiophoolery.(But then I paid 400,- DM back then for an AIWA "walkman" - that was a lot of money in 1990, but worth it, as it had Dolby C. I also considered a Sony WM-D6C, but that was even more uncheap at 650,- DM.)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 08:53:40 am
content: Cool. Can I connect it to my noise cancelling BT headphone?

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 09:40:08 pm
content: what a hateful music!

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 01:39:55 am
content: Joke: I wonder what DRM's are hidden in there.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-NW-WM1ZM2-Signature-High-Resolution-Bluetooth-Gold/dp/B09S12NP2L/Quote*Would that inlclude the autotune?DSD Remastering engine:https://audioxpress.com/news/sony-expands-hi-res-audio-options-with-new-products-on-its-signature-seriesQuote**Does that mean to subject the recordings to typical scratchy noise effect of record players?***If I think what I think that is I wouldn't class it as a "rich sound" more like scratchy.Joke:Why don't they put some valves inside and expose it to the surface?*" convert all PCM music sources into DSD 5.6MHz." I still don't know what that means for the output.Still don't know what this means for audio output.Maybe I will have to compare it to hear the difference.Amazon reviews:QuoteSounds sarcastic but I like the answer.Now this one is sounding to me like a proper Audiophool:QuoteI bet he is hearing the difference.Joke:The walkman is perfect and not you, right? the walkman is better in every way, shape and form than you'll every because it is perfect.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 02:21:02 am
content: £2,949.60 for a walkman that dont play cassettes,no thanks.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 03:55:18 am
content: 0.14QuoteOkay so IT IS gold plated and not just the colour. 99.99% oxygen free copper with gold plating.0.24Quote10 seconds later, now it has aluminum in there and the frame being (part of it being 99.99% (OFC)So it is not ALL gold plated 99.99% ofc chasses.0.29QuoteThey talk about high rigidity, then say out balancing it with thinness. See a pattern above with the OFC claim.0.14Gold plated 99.99% OFC chassis - ensures higher rigidity0.29Aluminum rear chassis ensure high rigiditySo the first statement is not all correct.0:19Quotehttps://youtu.be/QBV7HRGM7ns?t=75The Entrepooneur' - Theranos ParodyQuote

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 04:02:26 am
content: Cute when guys suddenly discover marketing.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 05:53:35 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 24, 2023, 02:21:02 amAnd it doesn't even play Doom. Or even Tetris.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 06:13:00 am
content: It is so expensive you'll be scared of ever taking it out and using it.Might get scratches on the expensive OFC copper gold cosmetic surfaces.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 08:12:19 am
content: Copper is not exactly a tough material, so it's likely totally scratched after one day of careful use.For this price, I'd expect a gold anodized Titanium casing with maybe copper coating on the inside

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 09:05:35 am
content: At those prices they should throw in roller skates, 80s polka dot headband, knockoff Spandex rig, 10 dorrar 'KO-Raybann', Maccas voucher..Crank up'Highway to the danger zone..' 'Eye of the tiger..' and 'Girls just wanna have fun..'(if contemplating hara-kiri)Just joking folks, there are more appropriate tunes for thatMarketing needs to get a clue in 2023 and release the 'WalkPerson'Many ladies are cashed up too,price is no object for phone and accessories purchases,nail jobs, eyebrows, breast implants, botox pump ups,and other assorted big dollar FrankenFace work ()let's not ignore tattoos in poor choice visual positionsand 5 figure status handbags are any indication of disposable wealth.i.e. it's a new target market or one that needs a revisit

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 10:07:34 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on January 24, 2023, 08:12:19 amSONY is overly creative in their marketing, catering to audiophools, but their engineers are not stupid. What I gather from the fluffy descriptions is:The "gold-plated OFC copper" piece is the internal chassis/frame, which holds things in place and probably has some shielding functionality. I can't see much value in the gold-plating, OFC, or copper for that matter, but I don't doubt that this will do the job. The outer shell is aluminum, with "gold-colored" anodization. Nothing special, but tough enough.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 10:17:07 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on January 24, 2023, 08:12:19 amSurely a TiN coating is the one you want? On the outside, I mean. Then, Au plating on the inside.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 11:40:41 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on January 24, 2023, 10:17:07 amGreat idea! Add sapphire display glass and then we are talking

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 12:00:59 pm
content: Oh my god the headphone jack is non-standard.QuoteYes apparently this is a thing.I've never had interference pickup problems with headphone cables. Balanced is completely overkill for this length of cable + current levels.If I did have interference problems with ordinary headphone cables: that's a great diagnostic tool to tell me that something is serious wrong in this room. Like a broken transmitter (or a microwave oven with door open and microswitches defeated).Maybe they're trying to avoid headphones pickup up >1MHz, injecting it back into the music player, rectifying it and you hearing it back? EDIT: Why am I bothering to justify thisWe have EMI immune opamps for a reason.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 06:47:28 pm
content: The only reason I thought of was for someone to plug a backing track into mixer/recorder while playing an instrument. All these different things plugged into SMPS used to cause problems.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 04:29:39 am
content: Quote from: Whales on January 24, 2023, 12:00:59 pmThere's a good reason for the non-standard headphone jack: Special overpriced headphones...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 11:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on January 24, 2023, 12:00:59 pmBalanced cable makes sense for high impedance headphones, if you drive it balanced. Not because of noise, but because of the voltage levels you need to drive a 300-600 Ohm headphone. And DAC outputs are already balanced, so it's not even that much more opamps, 4 instead of 3 for example.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 06:33:14 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 24, 2023, 10:07:34 amThat just reminded me of this video:EEVblog #719- Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card7 years agoQuoteSo after seven years of this nonsense and now they have come up with a version for the Walkman.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 06:57:05 pm
content: Nothing, if not consistent.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 06:00:55 am
content: If this s an official SONY document, I promise there was a room full of engineers choosing those words - and laughing over them.If it was from an independent importer or agent, SONY HQ will have them for lunch tomorrow.I worked for SONY in the early 90s… they have a great sense of responsibility and quality, but they also have a subtle sense of humour as long as it doesn’t affect business.

author: v81
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 03:29:06 pm
content: Feeling a bit slow... only just read about this...This part got me confused....In what way can an inductor replace a capacitor?They perform literally opposite jobs.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 04:01:56 pm
content: Replacement likely not in topological sense. Increasing inductance to reduce power rail ripple perhaps, but inductors cost more and have ohmic resistance, so an inductor with more turns may cause efficiency loss.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 07:22:45 pm
content: Quote from: v81 on April 03, 2023, 03:29:06 pmIt is a confusing sentence, but I don't read it as "replacing capacitors with inductors" but rather:Replacing laminated capacitors with "better" capacitors.Winding coils in the digital block power supply. (About this, I have no idea what they mean and I don't think Sony marketing does either)

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2023, 11:06:03 am
content: I still like the gold solderit pops right off turns into it pops right off when you work just a little harder