Files for enclosure work.   - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 03:49:47 pm
content: I had a crack at making an enclosure it took my an awful long time to cut a simple notch for a Micro USB socket. Using a full drill with a cutting disc and grinding wheel didn't work, much, made more of a mess.I figured "If only I had a small file"What do you think of these, I am worried most of the might be too big for the purpose.https://www.homebase.co.uk/hart-hfset5-5-piece-200mm-file-set_p389850

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 04:09:46 pm
content: Would think you need a combination of standard and small needle files, though buying better quality ones always worthwhile.These drill saws also very handy for enlarging things.Generally find its easier to use a bench drill than a hand held one when drilling such enclosures, small or large openings.https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/1230929/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Tools-_-Deburring_And_Finishing_Tools%7CFile_Sets-_-PRODUCT+GROUP&matchtype=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-v2Gnrru2AIV2smyCh0XMwULEAQYASABEgLnJvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.dshttps://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-drill-saw-set-3-pieces/89079?tc=BB3&ds_rl=1249796&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1249481&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlPKszrru2AIVjh0YCh1zkAAWEAQYAiABEgLETfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CODl-d677tgCFcyu7QodEZIM7g

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 04:32:52 pm
content: Uh oh. This could get expensive, couldn't it?I think I might start with those needle files and a handle for them.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 07:53:00 pm
content: What are you cutting? ABS, clear plastic, aluminum, steel, "pot" metal casting? Chose the right tool for the job.While a milling machine is versatile, for hand work, the best tool will vary depending on what you are cutting and to an extent, the shape and size of the holes.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 08:03:01 pm
content: Depending on the material, try a nibbler. With a little practice, you can do reasonably clean openings.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 08:10:43 pm
content: Yep, particularly good for aluminum, but not so good for polystyrene and other brittle plastics.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 08:22:20 pm
content: If you're talking things as small as micro USB connectors then a set of needle files are about your only option. Luckily, even fairly decent ones are cheap on Amazon and ebay these days.On the same subject, step drill sets are also getting much cheaper - an ideal alternative to punches for larger round holes. Best in a slow speed pillar drill but can also be used with care with a hand drill, depending on material.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 08:24:25 pm
content: Chinese needle files are cheap and will do just fine. Though you might get some that don't cut. For $1-2 set it's not a big loss. Swiss made files are pricey. In any case, needle files are the proper tool for making small openings.I dread making the enclosures more than anything else. It's really obvious if you screw up.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2018, 09:06:46 pm
content: You can get any amount of cheap needle files, which have a very crude or course cut, break or bend easily and generally make a mess of you work.Decent quality ones, like the RS ones should still be ( mine still good after 30 years) are really worth those few pounds more.Same with larger openings, its not that hard as you can see, mark out the area with a pen or pencil , drill out most of the area, use a standard flat file and finish the corners with the needle files.Opening on the side for a micro usb socket as well.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2018, 04:07:07 pm
content: So, what would your thoughts on these additions be:Hand Nibbler:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112578430175Special drill bits:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331976010113Files (3 pack):https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221888596621?var=520781662204

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2018, 06:14:05 pm
content: Hmmm. maybe not perfect selections...- The Nibbler you show looks like one for cutting out a strip into the edge of a sheet of metal - sort of double edge scissor style. The sort you want is the type that Phil from Seattle showed, where it pulls a slotted plunger (punch) through a rectangular opening (die). It's used vertically rather than horizontally.EDIT: I found one from RS under 'Notching tool' but the price is scandalous.I'm sure mine came from Maplin, donkeys' years ago and I'm sure I wasn't in a position to spend much on it!https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/notching-punching-tools/1752796/- I would be tempted to go for a step drill only kit with a bigger range of sizes. The tapered drill is occasionally useful for odd size holes, but very difficult to control the actual diameter and the hole sides are not parallel. The rotary file is hard to control because as you try to push it in one direction, it tries to climb sideways.- The Diamond file sets cut very aggressively, they remove a lot of material but don't leave smooth edges. You probably want to back them up with some smoother metal tooth ones.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2018, 06:20:23 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 25, 2018, 04:07:07 pmYou definitely don't want diamond-coated files, those will just clog up and stop cutting as soon as you touch alloy with them. Those are for hard steel/tool steel/carbide etc. Look for some Swiss pillar files for fine work, or a decent 8" flat file (with a safe edge!).Edit: Pics added, two grades of Swiss Pillar file, standard needle file, and 8" flat file. Note both Pillar and flat files have safe (smooth non-cutting) edges. Always use file handles - these are home made. Needle files are generally too short in length to get a good cutting action. Use a file card to keep the teeth clean of debris.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 08:06:56 am
content: Good needle files will be a worthwhile investment for anyone who does much craft work. You'll want a range of cuts, or tooth types, for each shape. A good coarse double-cut will help with fast shaping, bastard single cut will do for medium finishing/smoothing and from there you can go to either a mill cut file or sandpaper if necessary.Regarding file handles, one should definitely always be used. It's absolutely imperative if doing any filing work on a powered machine. There are very nice clamping file handles available these days that are quite solid, give a great grip and are easily and quickly transferred from one file to another. These are available for both full size files and needle files.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 09:02:01 am
content: Consider using a jewellery piercing saw plus blades. Cuts any shape you need, as you might infer from who uses them.http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/jewellery-sawMake sure you get the adjustible frame, so that you can easily alter the blade's tension.Choose the right supplier, and get 144 blades in a selection of "sizes".

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 09:44:13 am
content: I'll have another look. It was a good job I asked.I don't intend to do a lot of craft work. While I would love to have a full workshop with a pillar drill, bench sander, band saw and vices and all that good stuff, I live in an apartment and have no room for such things. So it will have to be 'make do' style. Basic minimal tools.I have a drill. If I have files, sand paper and maybe a nibbler I figure I can cut most holes in plastic enclosures.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 10:33:33 am
content: If by plastic you mean the usual soft ABS-like plastic, then consider some woodworking tools. A small chisel and Xacto knife with pointed blade (#11) will help -- great for sharp corners. I would rarely, if ever use "sandpaper" on such plastic to finish a hole. Files, scraping and similar cutting actions are my preferred methods.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 11:32:10 am
content: Next attempt:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pc-Jewellery-Model-Making-Precision-Needle-Files-Also-Suit-Craft-Hobby-Tools/331751808656?epid=1523184533&hash=item4d3df2de90:g:7coAAOSwu4BV1voKAs to the step drill. I'm not sure I need it. I was able to drill a perfectly good hole for a cable. I'm not entirely fussed if holes are perfectly straight/paralleled so I'll leave that until I find I need it.I have an Xacto clone I got from HobbyKing about 10 years ago, along with about 100 blades. Still works a charm. Although when the blade dulls and I replace it I have to tendency to forget its a fresh blade and slice my thumb open stripping wires with it. Ouch! I invested in a wirestripper, but sometimes a knife is easier.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 11:43:59 am
content: For round holes, I find a tapered hand reamer useful, especially if you have a limited set of drill bits. Drill out with the nearest undersize drill you have, then ream it to the exact size needed. For holes that are the right size, it's a handy deburring tool.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reamer#Tapered_reamer_(non-precision)I'm also quite fond of my automatic center punch to make drilling dimples. I almost never use the old hammer-powered one anymore.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_center_punchThe nipper pictured early in this thread is also very handy. The one I got over 20 years ago looks almost exactly like that picture. You can use it to turn round holes into square holes fairly easily. Draw or scribe nice lines for guides and you can be very precise with the nibble.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 12:29:34 pm
content: Laziness at work here:1. Buy enclosures that are easy to cut to start with. Look for ABS and Takachi thin aluminium enclosures on RS / bitsbox / wherever. Avoid die cast ones.2. If you're using ABS, just drill the holes out or shapes out and clean them up with a stanley knife. that's all you need. Try and pick things to put in the holes that have bezels so you don't have to worry about making a mess of the holes.3. If you're using sheet aluminium, drill holes out big enough to get a nibbler in then use that. You don't need to file it afterwards. I got one from machine mart that looks like this one (they dont sell them at MM any more though):https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00OKT1AB0/4. Finish both plastic and metal holes off with a deburring tool rather than files. I use one of these:https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/deburring-tools/1230915/5. If you have FR4 lying around, it's easy to work when flat compared to boxes and makes good enclosures.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 05:36:15 pm
content: I have to disagree on the diecast boxes - they are the easiest of all metal enclosures to work, for the simple reason that they cut easily without any burring (unlike Aluminium sheet). You can achieve very accurate results with them using simple drills, files, hacksaw blades etc. Personally they are my enclosures of choice - much less fiddly than plastic.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2018, 07:52:00 pm
content: Well, here is my very first enclosed project:It only required dropping a screw stanchion to hold the NodeMCU between it and the lid, a notch for the USB which I hacked with a bit of drill w/ cutting disc (saw would have been better), a bit of xacto gouging and a 6mm hole for an RJ45 cable.Still I'm proud of it. It's neat, rugged and functional. Kinda cute too, blue LED in a blue case. <shrug>I didn't need to worry about fixing anything else besides the NodeMCU as there was no room, it was a tight squeeze there are 3 boards in there!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/nodemcu-esp8266-rs485-epever-solar-monitor-diy/

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 05:44:32 pm
content: So I went out of buy some storage boxes and files in Homebase and decided to stop off in the local pound shop too.Got my storage boxes, plus a set of 6 needle files for £1.79, 3 full 8" files for £1.99, 6 12" hacksaw blades for £1 and some wet/dry sandpaper £1.20.I bet the needle files alone would have cost that from Homebase.As to whether they are made out of soft Chinese cheese remains to be seen.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 06:03:19 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 27, 2018, 05:44:32 pmWell they should work, and provided you're not filing steel with them they'll do the job. If 8" files don't have a safe edge put one on yourself using a grinder - the safe edge makes it easier to work with filing into corners without over-cutting in one direction..

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 06:32:14 pm
content: I use poundland quite a lot for enclosures. Sometimes it's worth chucking something into some one shot tupperware stuff if you want it to just not short outFirst enclosed project looks good

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 10:27:15 pm
content: I can only recommend Swiss files (UMV Vallorbe, Grobert, Corradi) above anything. But DICK, PFERD and HASE brands from Germany are quite decent as well. They offer special cuts for aluminium and soft metals as well as files suitable for stainless steel. Vallorbe 'Habilis' files are very nice, they are needle-file styled in the size of smaller machinist's files. Also their 'Valtitan' range is nice. I knew a Us company making (really!) decent files, but I can't find the name right now.When filing aluminium, use petroleum (lamp oil without smell, or medical oleum petrae) as lubricant/separation aid and the chips will not stick to your file.When getting needle files: a type that is not included in the standard kits is the knife type. But it is very useful, as it can make a precise first cut when one wants to saw a hard material. Prevents the hacksaw dancing away from the intended line of cutting.Also get a small triangular scraper for cleaning out corners of openings made by the methods described above. A good scribe is also recommended. Also, the swivelling deburring tools (Noga/Shaviv and compatible ones) are extremely useful. A small one will probably suffice, just get some different blades for it to fit your material.I personally do not like the automatic center punches. They can jump if not correctly adjusted and make a false impression near the correct one.Whatever you do, do not allow your files to rub at each other! If lacking the special roll or case, make your own by plastic welding out of heavy-duty plastic bags or roll them in alternate directions in protective paper (brown stuff) or soft cloth.As stated by other posters, diamond files are limited in their applications. Working well on hard materials. Sometimes stick abrasives (like Degussit) are better, sometimes not.But the biggest time-saver for making panels of any sort are the sheet metal punches like those offered by Greenlee and others. They can be actuted by a spanner for occasional use and come in a lot of shapes.For example, the Sub-D connector cutouts and small rectangular cutouts can be made with nearly no corrective work needed.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 11:56:01 pm
content: Information overload, thanks. I took a look for those punches, but as expected they are fairly expensive.The files have already solved a purpose, my crusty, barely ever tinned soldering iron tip cleaned up with a file to bare cooper and now has a proper shiny tip. That should make my soldering go easier.The files are of course check rubbish with varying grades of abrasion across the surface of the same file. I expect they will do the job I need of them fine though.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 12:13:26 am
content: I would be extremely interested in finding some "howto" on how to successfully lay out and use small files for making small non-round holes in aluminum.Quote from: Neomys Sapiens on January 27, 2018, 10:27:15 pm

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 01:24:06 am
content: Which part of my message do you refer to? I was answering a thread that was already running under the assumption that it will be done with files. I am not saying that it is my preferred method. But it can be done.I had to do it once before Dremels were widely available. I had to make two panel meter cutouts and two or three 10x15 mm cutouts. You drill holes of about 3mm as close as possible along the contour, but staying well inside. If you have a short, very stiff drill, you can make them even touch. Then you severe the remaining links with a small cold chisel or a fret saw. When this is done and the plug removed, you finish by filing the opening carefully to the previously marked contour.I have to admit that having to do it more often would be a serious incentive towards inventing the CNC mill.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 02:24:21 am
content: Oh, you encapsulated my opinion of the situation. I'm basically in the same boat as you are. Ive done okay on these - usually rectangular holes. Ive used drill, nibbling tool, etc. It doesnt even take that long (although it feels like it does, it really doesn't. My holes dont look that bad, apart from the infrequent one that is just a little bit off.The problem is, people are now spoiled (at least I am) I want it to look better. The only way I'm likely to get that with metal is with an CNC or its equivalent.I have some nice small files. Thinking about it I think my best shot at getting nice small holes in a reasonable amount of time is likely to cut holes a bit small and then enlarge them by hand using the files.Its not the flashy modern solution but it is likely to work.Quote from: Neomys Sapiens on January 28, 2018, 01:24:06 am

author: basinstreetdesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 06:24:05 am
content: Quote from: paulca on January 26, 2018, 07:52:00 pm

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 08:41:01 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 28, 2018, 02:24:21 amYou can reduce the amount of filing by drilling one hole, then using a jewellers piercing saw to cut arbitrarily close to the desired line.See my previous message for examples.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 10:25:20 am
content: Trap the workpiece in your vice jaws with the line barely showing above the top, then file down to the vice jaw using it as a guide to get a straight edge. Vice jaws are normally hard steel (decent vices) and will not be harmed by the file. Finish by draw filing. You can make your own jaw guides out of hardened gauge-plate (oil-hardening steel) if required, or if your vice does not have hardened jaws. An alternative is to make your own (sacrificial) soft mild steel jaws to reduce wear on the file teeth, but the mild steel jaws need to be replaced as they wear. Whatever, it's not wise to use your finest Swiss files with hard steel jaws and any cheap smooth-cut 8" files will do (those were probably not very sharp to start with!).This is an insanely quick way of achieving a precise and straight filed edge, I've used in the past to profile model locomotive connecting rods which are something of an awkward shape (being tapered) and much thicker than metal used for making enclosures.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2018, 01:41:25 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 28, 2018, 08:41:01 amI have one of those. Very handy indeed. It became even more useful when I made a visit to a local company that makes precision sawing machines using diamond-coated wire. They are used in the semiconductors industry, tool production and for materials testing. They had 2 diameters on hand. When I told them that I would need 5m each, they cut it off and gave it to me for free. Fits perfectly in the abovementioned saw!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2018, 02:42:16 am
content: That looks quite useful.Quote from: paulca on January 26, 2018, 07:52:00 pm