Don't buy HP M377DW laser color printer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 01:09:12 pm
content: What a piece of shit. It appears utterly unable to print a straight line! At all!My 21 year old HP 5L printed ruler-straight lines.I printed out a grid pattern on the M377dw, took some measurements, and it looks like the rollers are 20mm in diameter and they wobble back and forth twice per revolution.Excellent engineering here. There's nothing to do about it, checked every menu item.Now I have to drag this giant piece of crap back to the store!

author: Dielectric
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 03:56:09 pm
content: You mean the rollers are out of round, or they shift left-right? Either way is crap, just wondered what the failure looks like.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 04:49:35 pm
content: It is a $350 plastic color laser printer. It is amazing it works as well as it does.Did you look up the price of replacement toner cartridges? You essentially got that printer for free.You don't always get what you pay for. IME, frequently you get LESS than you pay for.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 04:58:28 pm
content: Something is wobbling left-right at regular intervals that work out to about a 20mm diameter something.Quote from: Richard Crowley on August 22, 2017, 04:49:35 pmAs opposed to the cast iron ones? What are you trying to say? Even the Genicom 200 pound unit I had from the early '80s had plastic parts...I'm not asking to print out IC fab masks here, just something that doesn't immediately jump out as being crooked.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 06:24:54 pm
content: It's the special retro color dot-matrix simulation mode!I cringe when I see the name "Hewlett-Packard" associated with things like that. I only trust pre-Agilent HP anything.I went through quite a bit of trouble with an HP inkjet multi-function printer a few years ago. In addition to the self-destructing DRM-laden ink cartridges, it also suffered from a long, degenerating case of capacitor plague.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 06:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on August 22, 2017, 04:58:28 pmI completely agree with you. But those things are getting so cheap, the printers are essentially a "loss-leader" to get you hooked on buying replacement toner cartridges. We have simply crossed over the threshold where what passes for a consumer product no longer has the precision even found in previous generations of plastic printers built to a price-point.Those old 200 pound printers at least were built on a metal framework internally even if all the exterior was plastic and there were internal plastic parts like gears and levers, etc. The current generation of printers has got rid of as much metal as possible and they have molded plastic frames for the print-path.Do you think it is worth taking it back and trying another one? Perhaps there was just something wrong with that unit and not with the entire model line?

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 06:46:59 pm
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on August 22, 2017, 06:24:54 pmI dunno, I have a nice HP monitor, 23xw, works fine, got it on special.However, even my 5L had paper path issues, there was a class-action suit for the 6L where you could get a free replacement rubber pad.The 5L was the same; it would grab a whole passel of sheets from the feeder and force the whole thing through.Wiggly lines is a far more disturbing issue. Seems only Brother makes something decent these days,.Quote from: Richard Crowley on August 22, 2017, 06:25:29 pmI don't have a car. I dragged that thing on public transit. The problem is I usually research things but I've noticed it's hard to tell real problems from individual cases. I bought this printer on a whim. Now I see I'm not the only one with wiggly lines.Repacking the thing and dragging another one home is looking less fun now.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 06:56:56 pm
content: Lol wow that seems like a piece of crap. Don't expect the world out of a cheap consumer grade printer but geeze, it should at least be able to make straight lines.The bane of my existence when I was in IT was the HP Laserjet 3600. Not so much because the printer itself, but the driver. You look at the printer properties dialog the wrong way and the entire print server crashes, taking down 100's of printers.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 07:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on August 22, 2017, 06:46:59 pmThe HP was replaced with a Brother MFC BW laser printer with color scanner. No real trouble with probably 16 reams going through it. Only had to replace or refill the cartridge several times. If / when I need color I would probably look at their color laser.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 07:18:03 pm
content: Perhaps it is a good idea to return it for repair under warranty. I can't imagine this is a structural problem with these printers.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 07:24:50 pm
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on August 22, 2017, 06:24:54 pmTo be honest this has saved me loads of money. Because, like you, I'm only really going to trust something with a proper old HP badge on it, I only buy second-hand HP kit nowadays, and I don't think I've lost out in any way. If anything, the older kit has better detailed specs for the same headline specs - not always, but much of the time - and certainly is more maintainable.Something unpleasant happened when HP split up and started changing its name every few years. Every component part, whether that was the computer business or the instrumentation businesses became much more MBA/marketing/what's-our-share-price-today run and led, and engineering took a back seat. The companies' strength - good engineering management - got demoted to second place, or possibly even lower. The minute any organization stops concentrating on their primary business, and starts concentrating on the business of business - management, marketing and the like - then they go downhill.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 07:27:21 pm
content: Sigh. OK. Lesson learned. No more spur-of-the-moment trips to Staples with credit card in hand...But I already gave my old inkjet away.

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 08:51:21 pm
content: its a feature to break up resonances in the finished print.you obviously never seen a picture collapse before. this is cutting edge shit.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 09:12:41 pm
content: Damn - that's pretty bad!!-Pat

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 10:10:23 pm
content: I knew the new HP printers are bad but I had no idea that they are that bad.HP used to make the best printers in the business....I still have 4 of the LaserJet 4100N and they all work perfectly even after 15+ yearsAnd they produce even straight lines, just no color.There was a time, long ago, that I told myself I will never buy anything HP again.I am glad I stood by this decision.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 10:10:43 pm
content: We have one in the office for the past year and a half.Works very well, prints always good in both b/w or colour. Scanner works flawlessly.I've printed pcb layouts to verify size fitting or components etc, not seen any problems with linearity etc. Also have access to a high end ricoh office printer (that can do colour 11x17 etc) but will often use the HP since it is only 10' away versus 100' for the RicohWifi connection stable with no issues to several laptops (apple & pc).cheers,george.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 10:56:02 pm
content: Quote from: CopperCone on August 22, 2017, 08:51:21 pmMaybe it's space grade, it's accounting for relativity or time dilation during the printing process. If used in space and under the right conditions it should produce straight lines.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 11:02:32 pm
content: I thought HP printers were on everybody's "do not buy" shit list because of that ink cartridge fiasco last year.

author: Quarlo Klobrigney
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 11:23:54 pm
content: For the want of a gear 1/4" in diameter, which cannot be bought or begged, my $300 HP printer is rendered useless. I was told by support "You'll just have to buy another printer" The printer had wonderful colour and mono printing until the poor little gear snapped in two.HP printers are on my shit list of never again.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 11:46:25 pm
content: I'm getting a vibe here of not buying HP printers... Oh well, Staples will just take it back, no questions.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 12:33:20 am
content: On the topic of "everything is terrible": My Samsung CLP-6260ND color laser MFP prints straight lines. It does not, however, have a concept of "dimensional accuracy" - the same printout will vary in size (vertically, at least) by up to 3 mm over a full A4 page, depending on the mood the printer is in. There aren't any discontinuities or anything, it just randomly resizes it.This makes printing large, multi-sheet things utterly futile if they're to be stuck together later on, becausenothing will ever line up.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 02:18:18 am
content: I've seen this happen before, but that was because there was some dirt preventing the cartridge from seating fully; it was in at an angle, so the drive gear would bind on it as it turned and cause the whole cartridge (and drum) to flex sideways.It's a sad commentary on how much common sense people have, when searching for "printer wavy lines" and finding pages of posts saying that it must be a software/firmware problemQuote from: Quarlo Klobrigney on August 22, 2017, 11:23:54 pm3D printing is a thing these daysQuote from: ovnr on August 23, 2017, 12:33:20 amA lot of printers now use a DC motor and rotary encoder instead of the steppers found on older models. In that case, some random dust in the encoder will cause this to happen.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 07:23:12 am
content: Quote from: Quarlo Klobrigney on August 22, 2017, 11:23:54 pmThe way I look at it: my first HP printer costed around $2000 in today's money and it worked for 20 years. My new HP printer is around $400. So if it lasts for at least 5 years then it is just as expensive as the first printer. BTW I only buy 'for business use' computer-ish hardware and original cartridges.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 09:21:04 am
content: Quote from: Quarlo Klobrigney on August 22, 2017, 11:23:54 pmI picked up a Fuji-Xerox DocuPrint C3300 DX as a street toss back in Dec 2015. It's an excellent, recent color laser printer. A couple of small problems were easily fixed, and it works great. But it has a non-essential plastic part broken that I'd like to replace. Tried a few 'printer repair' places, and the general story from them is: None of the printer manufacturers any longer make spare parts available. Usually not even service manuals. So now pretty much the only way to get spare parts is to scour ebay, etc, for broken printers.This situation is outrageous. Vote TerraHertz for dictator, and I'd have the executives at any company that manufactures and sells technical gear without full service manuals and spare parts available for the expected product lifetime, executed by firing squad.Or maybe better yet, dropping piles of their unrepairable products on them from a great height.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 10:55:18 am
content: You have my vote TerraHertz!I have not had a great run with Brother laser printers either - ok for a few years then various issues, it is terrible to say but I don't fix drum or laser cartridge issues - heading down a road of $ pain.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 05:02:00 pm
content: I made it print the graph paper and turned off the power halfway. Carefully removing the jammed sheet shows that the toner itself is put down crooked, before it reaches the fuser. I don't know what is going on. I thought something common to all 4 cartridges is making the paper wiggle regularly inside, but I can't really see what. Ugh.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 07:31:23 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on August 23, 2017, 05:02:00 pmMy guess is the octagon mirror rotation isn't stable. Or a defect in the mirror &/or lenses.The toner only adheres where the laser beam has produced charge on the drum. It's very unlikely the drum is moving back and forth, and any drum rotation irregularity should produce 'stretching/compression' zones in the image, not wiggly lines.Am I right in understanding your wiggly lines are the ones parallel to the paper movement, ie the wiggles are 90 deg to the paper travel? If so then it's an error in the laser scanning.It would be funny if it's something as simple as ripple in the power supply to the octagon mirror motor. So what you have is a kind of laser printer oscilloscope.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 08:55:48 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on August 24, 2017, 07:31:23 amIt looked to me like the lines were wiggling in the short paper direction, which I would take to be axial movement of one of the rollers or drums. Were I to have to repair something like this, I'd look for something that was contacting or pushing the edge of a roller once per rotation - perhaps a bit of flashing on a cast roller/drum or on the overmolded rubber that was catching on the chassis.

author: A@ron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 05:18:29 pm
content: I've had really good luck with my HP m175nw even though I do not baby it including running refilled toner carts, rebuilt imaging drum, running paper which is 310gsm and way out of spec on what it should be able to handle through it.Yes printers are built down to a cost and follow the "gillette model" where the printer is sold at little profit or a loss and the money is made back on the ink.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 06:53:13 pm
content: We once had a customer with a high end line printer. Always causing problems it was... They would blame the paper, the software etc. But, it was always the printer, micro switches, optical encoders etc.The manufacturer had stopped supporting it. But, eventually they found a 3rd party company who could/would service it.But replace it they would not... For they they were the original company of many name changes, who's logo on the door still looked remarkably like the one on said printer.They did not even need a line printer for the job, a good dot matrix would have been fine. A nice Epson or Oki for a few hundred quid, but politics dictated the spending of thousands keeping it going.