What car electronics you deem most useful? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 07:55:03 pm
content: In a couple of other thread here, somehow it got my mind thinking about car gadgets. As I think about it, this got my interest: What car electronics do you electronic engineers like most? (In this context, I almost mean most useful)Me not being an electronic engineers, what I like most (found most useful) are:0. Radio - I wont buy a car that doesn't have AM radio1. Cruse control - I wont buy a car that doesn't have cruse control2. Trip computer (I particularly like my previous VW's), dual, one manually clear/set and one automatically clears and restart after 2 hours (presumably new trip) displaying MPG, Miles, time.3. Exterior temperature display (don't care when in the Summer, but rely on it in the Winter)4. Stop watch - I found I use that a lot. In fact, I would like it dual or multiple ones. With a tie to trip computer is also a good thing but in that case I want more than dual.All the other electronics in my car are either ignored or merely just got in my way. For GPS navigation, I prefer on not tie into the car's electronics.I am reluctant to call air-conditioning electronics as it is mostly electro-mechanical. If that is to be consider electronics, I rank it as one of the must-have.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:24:01 pm
content: You missed one: EFIEFI has had the greatest impact on reliability and economy and pollution.In recent times it's been applied to diesels too where they call it Common Rail but it's still EFI just with staged squirts to improve burn, power and emissions.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:38:46 pm
content: OBD2 so I can work out why the engine light is on before I get shafted by the garage.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:46:01 pm
content: Rick, why do you need a car with control of earthenware pots and jars?Now winter has set in I am reminded of how much I like my Ford Quickclear windscreen, that is a great gadget.I never use AM radio, even though I have it, FM is good enough because in the UK you only need BBC Radio 4. RDS helps... I would prefer a perfect digital radio, but DAB was crippled from the outset. Typical designed by committee and with low tech and high license fees.I agree with tautech that the best thing ever is ECU control, with OBD2 and better diagnostics over CAN, however take a look at John Deere in the USA for how they now control simple on the job fixes with their ludicrous "intellectual property" DRM on tractors - coming to a car you own soon...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:47:12 pm
content: 1) Timed windshield wipers2) Modern engine controls in general3) I am not sure where modern spark plugs fit in but I like them4) As must as I like traction control, I hate ABS. More than once, I've had my current car brake for me while driving on dry pavement. I've never looked into it but would not be surprised at all to find that modern electronics (software included) were not the root cause of more than one accident. Strange is the cars I have owned will allow you to disable the traction control but not the ABS.Most of the fluff, I could care less about. To me they are just more failure points and I would gladly give them up.I looked at buying a new bike a few years back and they only offered the model I wanted with ABS. There is no way I want any electronics/firmware doing anything with the braking system!

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:48:30 pm
content: 0. Radio - A must have, but AM is dead here so make that FM and/or DAB+1. Cruse control - Nice, but wouldn't trade it for the radio2. Trip computer - I could live without3. Exterior temperature display - The warning light is enough for me, I don't care what the actual temp is4. Stop watch - Does that come with cars? I never noticed or needed.Keyless entry & start - I would put that second, nothing beats not having to find your key.Front window defrost - although I think this is a Ford special

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:51:38 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 08:47:12 pmABS = Anti Blocking System, it prevents the wheels from stopping to turn no matter how hard you brake. I think you are confusing that with Collision avoiding?

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 08:57:17 pm
content: I think the one I most appreciated (at the time it became common) was remote door unlocking. No more fumbling about in the pissing rain!Cruise control & speed limiting probably high on the list. Not used by me that much but great in speed-limited roadworks.Reversing camera or beepers.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:03:09 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on December 16, 2017, 08:51:38 pmABS = Anti-lock Braking System. I can't see how it is a problem? The first systems where purely mechanical anyway (BMW motorcycles where the first to include such a system IIRC) and do the same thing. Other than racing and rally drivers the vast majority of people when faced with an emergency will stomp on the brake pedal, and when the wheels lock up will try and steer out of the situation while just ploughing right in to the disaster with no control whatsoever.I have no problem with ABS being mandatory and not allowing it to be disabled. Because not every driver other than Sterling Moss, Louis Hamilton, and joeqsmith is a fucking genius at cadence braking - and all those 99.9% of soccer mom drivers are my mortal enemy in an accident situation.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:05:43 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on December 16, 2017, 08:51:38 pmThe brake controller performs both the ABS as well as the traction control functions.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:06:31 pm
content: Well, I like heading into the sticks and much prefer reliability over gadgets.In oz I have an old school diesel (all mechanical). The only reliance on electricity is the starter motor and the glow plugs. No other electronic junk to worry about. Common rail diesel just turns what was a reliable diesel motor into a problematic electronically controlled fueling system. EFI is great till something fails - mud/water/vibration/heat are all prevalent when offroad.Yes, the electronics in the CRD makes it clean and returns great mpg and power - but if anything in that control/sensing path fails you better have your satellite phone/panic transmitter ready to get you out of trouble. Mate has a newer land cruiser with the 'wonderful' TDI Common rail V8 - wonderful motor - pity that to access anything significant in the engine bay requires a hoist to pull the engineNow onto stuff that is nice but won't strand you:- mechless music player- navigation system (I use android tablet+phone with topo maps and aerial imagery - at least 2 devices for some redundancy).- solar + mmpt charger, to keep aux battery (and main) charged to run a fridge (100 - 140W folding panels are so cheap these days).- LED lighting for around camp (power outlets at various locations around the vehicle).- home built car computer to provide various trip meters, turbo cool down timer, battery metering etc.- HAM gear.- SPOT sat emergency/tracking.So, car electronics really depends on whether you buy a car to drive to/from work and the occasional hwy trip while always in cell contact with the nearest tow truck service or whether you are buying a vehicle that you are going to put your life on the line with when out bush...cheers,george.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:08:20 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:03:09 pmLet the personal attacks start.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 09:05:43 pmPerhaps you are confusering ABS with EBD? - in which case I totally agree, EBD is nonsense that slams on the brakes for you even when you let off the pedal to the metal.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:19:08 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 09:08:20 pmNo personal attack at all. I know from your other videos that you are a very skilled rider/driver and I put you in the same league here as other world class motorsports stars.But you can't deny that ABS being a requirement is a bad thing, especially considering the awful driving standards of the USA.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:19:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 09:08:20 pmNot from me !The best drivers I know all run drag racers, their concentration and reaction times are amazing.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:24:50 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:10:43 pmI am not confused. I hate ABS but feel free to attack me for at as you see fit.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:03:09 pmIt's not a problem, but read again what joeqsmith wrote:QuoteThat has nothing to do with ABS.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:31:53 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 09:24:50 pmThere is no "attack", I do not think ABS or any other driver emasculation controls should be a thing on the drag strip or any other motor sport (despite the $1,000,000's that F1 etc invest in such systems).This thread is about "useful car electronics" to other more regular Joes. I think ABS is a godsend, not that I ever had to use it - but the other idiots did.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:32:34 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on December 16, 2017, 09:28:37 pmRight.If ABS wasn't installed it couldn't do it.Same as ABS being used for traction control.

author: AllTheGearNoIdea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:33:14 pm
content: I’m an old man so heated seats followed by heated windscreen no more scraping ice.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:33:31 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 16, 2017, 09:19:39 pmA friend of mine races road courses for a hobby. He took me for a ride a few times around the track. Talk about thinking fast. I have a lot of respect for his driving skills. Another friend runs vintage open wheel cars. That's some crazy stuff. I just try to keep the bike going in a straight line but they think I am a bit off my rocker as well.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:34:05 pm
content: Number 1 is air conditioning. The 2 main seasons in Florida is hot and F**king hot, besides 2 love bug and tourist seasons. I have had 2-60 AC--2 windows open at 60 MPH and it doesn't cut it. And the AC must have dual climate control, because SWMBO likes settings vastly different than me. Thankfully, both vehicles we have, have the dual climate control.Number 2 is cruise control-this is a big ticket avoider.Next is car stereo with Bluetooth. The last 2 company vehicles have had it. Since I bought my old company van, I have it and SWMBO's car has it. Very handy and I like playing my music on my phone over BT. Look, Ma, no cords. Oh, and I don't do AM.+1 for keyless entry, including the trunk.GPS-I am obviously old school as I prefer my Garmin to in car and cell phone nav.Back up camera. I have that on my company Ford Transit Connect. Very useful as I can't really see out of the back window.I only use the trip odometer in my company van to track mileage to service calls. Not that big a deal on personal vehicles. Neither is the stop watch. I have never heard or seen this in a vehicle. I would personally like my vehicle clock to do 24 hour time. Being a ham radio operator and using 24 hour time at work, I am simply used to it and prefer it.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:40:57 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on December 16, 2017, 09:28:37 pmExactly, I totally agree. It's what I've been saying all along. ABS doesn't just decide to brake for you. It simply detects wheel lock and backs off and modulates the brakes - either mechanically or electro-mechanically.On the public road I much prefer that giving the typical driver some control of their "Truck of Peace" F350 in an emergency is better than letting them lock the brakes and skid into everyone.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:43:13 pm
content: I like those little blinky things. Sometimes I leave them on for the whole trip !

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:44:44 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:40:57 pmSorry, I obviously misinterpreted your reply.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 09:33:31 pmI distinctly remember listening to a radio interview years ago of one of your US famous women drag racers, she drove rails and her hubby ran funny cars....you'll know whom I'm referring to. She was running 4's in the days when they still ran full quarters.Anyways, she was asked to recite all the things she had to attend to and that that went on during a run.Well it took her nearly five minutes to convey it all in words for the layman such as me to fully comprehend.From that day forth I've had immense respect for those that are pushing the boundaries of what's possible on wheels.No, you're not off your rocker....go Joe go.BTW put some time sheets up or some pics of you latest bike version.The buddy is slowly getting back into his car after std 20B's blocks weren't able to handle 1500 hp so new everything, this time all billet stuff. $$$$$It's dry sumped running 60 lb boost, on meth and shoehorned into a tube framed and carbon fibre Dodge Stratos.Man does it sound fine on the dyno.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:31:53 pmPersonally, I tend to form my opinions based on my own experiences. You never use ABS and yet you feel it is a godsend. You have never ridden with me or seen me drive but feel the need to comment on my driving abilities. Around here, if you drive you will use ABS assuming you have it and have not pulled the fuse.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 09:53:13 pm
content: We need some man hugs in here!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:02:07 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 16, 2017, 09:53:13 pmYou newbies need to get to know the membership better.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:07:08 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 16, 2017, 09:50:28 pmI have a friend who drives a slingshot (front engine dragster). It's running on some amount of nitro and blown. You can't see in front of you so he watches the wall to judge where the car is.He was going to drive a funny car and was telling me about some of the tests they run. The best part was he is sitting in the car and they give him a signal. He has to turn on the fire suppressant..... and eventually get out of the car in some amount of time. He did this a few times. Then when they had him do it for real, he gets the go and they block his air intake. It's a fire... You don't get to breath I guess.I now run 25 or so PSI with C16 gasoline. It's a cheap thrill, that and I like bikes.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:09:25 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 16, 2017, 10:02:07 pmThat's what the man hugs are for

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:18:50 pm
content: Nice Joe, the buddy is running low 7's.His cars are turbo'ed and rotarys. He ran C16 in the early days but found the limit and had to move to methanol to go faster. The turbo he runs is bigger than a dinner plate, ice intercooled and 4" plumbing.From an earlier build:We did some crazy hours to finish this in time to get shipped to Aussie for their Nats where it didn't do well as it was still in development.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:36:10 pm
content: One of the oldest - windshield wiper delay. Without it in light rain you either operate the switch like crazy or let the blades rub themselves to oblivion."I never use AM radio, even though I have it, FM is good enough because in the UK you only need BBC Radio 4. RDS helps... I would prefer a perfect digital radio, but DAB was crippled from the outset. "I cringe at the idea of DAB radio in a car.Will make handheld phone use seem positively benign by comparison. At least, I hope I never encounter a guy, head down below the dash and pushing buttons furiously trying to find a channel on the thing, coming towards me. Or else, that he wanders off into the ditch before he reaches me.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:36:49 pm
content: Sweet looking ride there!! I guess the limit for C16 is a bit over 30PSI before there are no more gains, so I've been told. Your friend is way beyond that. I was up around 30PSI several years ago but the bikes frame was wanting to twist making it next to impossible to drive. My wife bless her heart, put her foot down and said no more.The bikes don't have a lot of safety equipment.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:48:56 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 10:36:49 pmCurrently the issue is keeping the donk from twisting out of the engine plate.....some secret squirrel remedies have taken shape to fix that.Hint given earlier.He's never run C16 in this baby only in the 13B 2 rotors he ran while learning the craft.These 20B's are another different class of grunt but they still jumps them off the line at 10k rpm.Pushing the boundaries is neither cheap nor simple but a hell of a lot of fun to be involved in.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 11:23:49 pm
content: A dashcam brought me a lot of peace. I used to think this a lot : "crap, that moron nearly hit me, what if I had to explain it to the police ? To the insurer ? Would they offer a shitty 50/50 deal while I wasn't in the wrong at all ?". Now it's all gone. Best 100 EUR spent ever.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 11:27:57 pm
content: The most useful car electronics? The electric starter.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 11:52:46 pm
content: Funny, no one has yet said 'Power Windows'.Trust me, first starting off on a hot day, ventilating out the car, or at the toll booth, you use it and would be inconvenienced without it...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 12:31:33 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 16, 2017, 10:48:56 pmI returned to the basics. Add more weight. I think it was 11 lbs of additional tubing when it was all said and done. Shown after power coating.If I took every turbo I have and stuck them together, I doubt it would flow as much as one of your friends.The ones I use now were custom made. The problem was the old parts were no longer available and finding a turbo that would fit into such a small area and have the flow I needed was not something standard.I am guessing your friend would respond to this thread with 1) control system, 2) data logging

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 01:07:29 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 17, 2017, 12:31:33 amNah he won't as he thinks I'm plain nuts.I keep telling him he's the one with the problem..........https://www.facebook.com/MarkovinaRacing/Microtech for ECU but I think he's moving to Helltech.He logs chassis too with a Race PacInterfacing it all was a bit of a headache when we put it all together but there's some talk of major changes in the electrics as well as what's happening under the hood.This next configuration will put a horn on a jellyfish going by what he told me a couple of days back.Austrailasian or southern hemisphere records are in his sights to go with some NZ 2 rotor ones he already has under his belt. Check his FB page for any hints of the stuff he's got installed.Don't know what is with the air here but in the opposite direction from my place is one of our NZ champion drifters,Good stuff this air must be....we're all nuts.http://www.darrenkellydrift.com/

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 01:31:50 am
content: If it's not larger than my wife's hair dryer, it's not a turbo. This is a turbo!I use a Microtech on my newer bike. It's fairly simple to program. My old bikes are very crude. Just some timers, ignition and logger. All tuned by hand.Race Pac was one of the better loggers I looked at. Now days with the PIC parts, I am surprised there is not some very high quality low cost loggers. Low demand keeps the costs up?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 02:03:42 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 16, 2017, 08:38:46 pmAs if the self diagnostic actually workIt is there because of regulations but it doesn't help at all to pinpoint the exact problem.Anyway. I like to have a radio, cruise control, ABS and a rain sensor to control the wipers (the latter is not fitted on my current car). For the rest please as least as possible because all it does is break down or be annoying like electrically adjustable mirrors or electric windows. The manual ones work much faster.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 02:14:22 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2017, 02:03:42 amThe OBD2 diagnostics actually work well in my experience.I've had a failed fuel injector which created a miss and pulling the code showed the cylinder # that was misfiring and sure enough after verifying spark plug lead was good, spark plug was good and dizzy cap was good - pulling the injector and measuring resistance showed it open circuit.I've had OBD2 report a problem with TPS (and the vehicle was showing a higher than normal idle), replace TPS and all good again.I've had OBD2 report an EGR issue and found a vacuum solenoid had failed.You are correct in that OBD2 will not point to the exact cause of a fault, but the FSM (Factory service manual) is VERY clear in guiding you on what to measure/test for a specific code.Obviously this presumes that you have some mechanical/vehicle repair skills beyond filling the petrol tankSo, I'd say OBD2 is very useful if you have a modern vehicle with ECU/EFI etc etc.cheers,george.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 02:59:40 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 08:47:12 pmI had a hard time with traction control until I learn at times I should turn them off. Now I like them.In my experience (with a rear wheel drive car), traction control is good only when you are already in motion. When you are stuck in snow or an icy parking spot, traction control often is more hindrance than help. Sometimes, spinning your wheel is the best way to get off that slippery spot. Same with a slush filled dip in the road which happens whenever a storm drain is very near stop sign/light. The road dip a little so water runs into the drain, but when snowing, slush collects there so when you stop at the light, you are stuck.The first two or three years of having a car (BMW 328i) with traction control, I didn't realize that yet. I carried six 25 pound bags of cat litter (150 pounds) for extra weight in the back to give it more traction. Even with that, I would often need a push to get off an icy parking spot. One time, I just decided to turn the traction off and wheel-spin my way out of that spot like my pre-traction control cars. Works wonders - I was then back to having trunk space even in the winter.Traction control on front-wheel drive cars seem to be less problematic in snow-in parking spots. Still, I would prefer traction control with an off button.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 03:08:52 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 08:46:01 pmI am old-school... With older cars, they are so direct. I can see what is going on. From DIY tune up's to fine tuning spark plug gaps or adjusting the timing with a timing gun. Now, I can't change a bloody car battery without going to a trained mechanic so it can use his computer to tell my car's computer that a new battery is installed. Cars have gotten to be so cold - just another piece of black box machinery.Yeah, the ECU do wonders to the car's reliability. But... spending a weekend tuning up a car, or a weekend fiddling with the distributor just give you a different kind of relationship than merely taking the car out for a spin.As to radio, it is a habit. I used to listen to audio business books during work commute. These days, I still like listening to yepping - news or talk shows. Here in the USA, news or talk are almost exclusively AM radio. I do enjoy music a lot, but not while I am driving.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 03:45:46 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:40:57 pmThis, plus the mention of cadence braking, brought back a memory....Some years ago, I was travelling home in my old Ford Falcon one evening after it had been raining. The road was wet and slippery and on a slight downhill grade. I rounded a bend to find an accident at the point of minimum warning and hit the brakes. The wheels locked up, but I had the presence of mind to back off and re-apply the brakes a few times and realised I mightjustpull up in time!That was until the joker behind me slid into me, breaking traction and adding enough momentum to run into the car in front. Cost me a radiator and a bonnet, with the bumper just needing to be readjusted. Police turned up - but the guy who had run into the back of me had scampered.I found my braking effort had a name - cadence braking - and while it was very effective, I have to say it is one of the most unintuitive actions I have ever tried as a driver. It required clear thinking in a stressful situation.ABS does this - and I wholeheartedly support its use in motor vehicles.Other things:Intermittent wipers - especially ones with variable timingPower windows - when you need to get air through the carRadio - to make an entertaining noiseAir conditioning - essential in Australia

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 04:44:18 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on December 16, 2017, 11:52:46 pmI hate power windows. They are just another expensive and extraneous feature to break.ABS has disadvantages as well at least if GMC implements it but that goes for anything they do. The ABS brakes on my pickup become close to useless without the vacuum assist and they make control worse under adverse road conditions like gravel or ice.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 07:08:41 am
content: My radar detectors have paid for themselves over the years.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 07:20:11 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 16, 2017, 09:40:57 pmABS systems have come a long way since their original bang-bang controllers which could only dump pressure and release locked wheels. They now include pumps and/or accumulators which hold pressure that can be released on command for increasing (or adding) braking force even when there is no pressure from the master cylinder (pedal input).If this example was adding non-required braking then its faulty and needs looking at, but a single report of a single faulty unit is not a reason to write off ABS and refuse to use it as the benefits for the majority of conditions and situations outweigh the known downsides (no matter who the driver is on public roads). Likely such events are being logged in detail on the ECU for those with the tools to extract it.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 07:59:42 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on December 16, 2017, 10:36:10 pmRainsensorIt's really one of the features i like most in my car.

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:19:32 am
content: Electric rear view mirrors, no more getting out, adjust, not quite right then repeat.Pedestrians on my street seemed to make a beeline for the mirrors on my old Land Rover.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:42:44 am
content: I think it must be the hybrid drive in my car. Otherwise it is not going anywhere.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 10:41:20 am
content: I installed park distance sensors on the rear of my car, dashcam and I am thinking of putting the park sensors on the front as well, so I can park easier. For intermittent rain I just use C-thru ( in the USA RainX) as that means there are only little drops in light rain, and the rain vanishes over 60kph in any case, along with less bug sticking to the window ( yay, last night was termite night, must have been a million or more plastered over the front of the car in the 30km trip back from the in laws, but only a few marks on the windscreen, and a good number stuck on the wiper arms where they went splat, plus of course the dogs were loving the tasty snacks) as they tend to bounce before splat.A plug in dongle to interrogate the ECU and other body modules is great, tells you things as well as intermittent faults as well, plus things like more info than the dash is capable of displaying. Things like speed control, radio and such are just nice to have, I can work without them or around them. Navigation as well I would rather it is not part of the car, as those are very often both expensive, clunky and obsolete before the vehicle is sold, or are never updated, or the updates are a massive cost for the value of the actual data itself. Power windows I have working hands, plus I can feel if the channels are binding and service it, not just break the whole lot when it seizes from whatever. ABS great if it is there, but remember ABS does Sweet Fanny Adams if you have either no tread on the tyres, or cheap rubber, or have not serviced the brake system and the pads, rotors or drums are no longer up to spec. decent tyres, decent tread and I have not aquaplaned, even hitting a 10cm deep 50m long section of flooded freeway at 120kph, I just washed the underside and the sides of the road dumping 50kph of energy without braking. Guy behind me spun out, must have had airplane tyres.Joe, you are right on your skill, but as you are likely a driver in the top 1% of drivers, the most common vehicle is for the 99%, and I am in there as well, will just have to admire your skill, and remember never to drive with you in a hurry. I have a simple philosophy about motor vehicles and planes, never get into one that I am more than the empty unfuelled mass. Helicopters fine, cars fine, but no bikes ( I was cured of that at 15 in high school) and no microlights ( RIP Mowritz, AIB still is puzzled about that one), but great fun in helicopters and planes. Yes, did find out a Porsche 911 can actually fly, even if the landing was somewhat sparky.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 11:34:18 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on December 16, 2017, 10:36:10 pmI personally can't stand wind screen wiper delays. They never seem to work correctly. I've had them in cheap cars and in very expensive ones, and I always turned the setting to manual eventually. It could be a good thing, but I haven't seen it work yet.It's a bit like satnav. A good one will provide the correct information at the right time. If that's off slightly, it can be quite the hassle.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 11:39:06 am
content: Quote from: Koen on December 16, 2017, 11:23:49 pmJust know that dash cams have also been used against the owner of the camera. If it turns out you were 5 mph over the limit when an accident occurs, it could be reason for the insurer not to pay, even if it didn't actually contribute to the accident.There's also the matter of privacy. Even though you control the camera, there's still a detailed record of where you've been. There have been incidences where the camera got stolen and this was turned against the owner.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 11:57:52 am
content: Sound system - I am a huge fan of a car system that can play podcasts and it can be be controlled by the steering wheel controls.(PS off topic - I do a lot of country driving- about 500km/wk - most at about 100km/hr and appreciate a smooth ride - I hopped out of a Porsche 911 Carrera once into my Volvo V70 - ah..... so comfortable!)

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 01:23:01 pm
content: 0. Air conditioner. A must here.1. Electric windows: it's a no-go trying close other window that mine while driving.3. Airbag4. Any driving hrlp or emergency susbsystem, like lanr change advisors or traction control.In short: 1st prevent distractions, then help driving and protect if a crash happens.Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 03:32:37 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 17, 2017, 10:41:20 amIts interesting the focus is on my skills and confusion about the difference between ABS and traction control and my comment about the brakes being applied automatically. No questions so let me try provide some details, first by offering that I am a very safe driver for the most part when driving a car. I base this on my lack of accidents over a very long history of driving. I don't take many risks on the public roads while in the car. I have written that the break controller on this car is for both the traction control as well as the ABS. The ECM in this case does not store codes for the break controller however you can pull the data off the break controller with a scan tool that supports it (which I have).Starting with the problem where the break controller applies the brakes on dry pavement. The system uses four wheel speed sensors to detect the slip. The two front ones are built into the bearing, the rear use a tone ring mounted to each axle. It can't detect actual road conditions. When this condition has happened on dry road conditions, it is always during a turn. Its possible the tires could slip on loose stones or sand that first enable the traction control. What happens is the controller then gets into a mode where it will not recover. The only recourse is to slow down and turn off the traction control or restart the system. This condition is very rare. It's happened I think three times now and has always been at low speeds (sub 20 MPH). However, even with that problem, as I mentioned before I still like having the traction control. It works well on ice.When I talk with people about ABS who drive in similar road conditions, the stories are similar. I use ABS often during the winter. Normally at speeds less than 5MPH. I dare say at speeds less than 1. When driving on ice, the car basically will not stop or requires a VERY long distance to stop. I have a friend who was coming to a stop sign going down a hill. He was driving slow, road was ice. He was pretty much stopped in plenty of time and distance then the ABS kicked in. Brakes released and the car nosed forward. It then grabbed again for a bit and reactivated. The car nudging into the intersection at slower than you would walk. This is common with what I see with ABS while driving on ice at very low speeds. Even if I were in a wreck at 1MPH as the car creeps along, the damage is going to be minimal. To get around this on my current car, I throw it into neutral if it starts to engage. This disables the ABS and I can stop the car. We have enough areas where you try slow speed ice slides to see how their controls work. ABS has never been a problem for me on dry or even wet road conditions. It never activates.Hope this helps.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on December 17, 2017, 04:44:18 amIts actually cheaper to make a modern car with power windows than with a manual winder. They have a lot more flexibility in design with electric drive, and motors are very cheap. Also, the simpler construction inside the door leaves more space for door pockets, or allows a slimmer door to be used.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:19:34 pm
content: Power windows also warrant a heavy motor, which is another kilogram or so added to the bulk of the vehicle.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:30:30 pm
content: Quote from: georges80 on December 17, 2017, 02:14:22 amThese are the simple problems you can find without OBD2 errors. Over the years I have had various problems for which the OBD2 errors messages where wrong or the problem wasn't even detected. For example: when the timing belt on my previous car snapped the OBD2 gave an error for a valve on the (diesel) fuel injection pump. Fortunately I looked further before ordering a 350 euro valve.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:31:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 17, 2017, 05:19:34 pmIts a damned heavy window that requires a 1 kilo motor. You have to offset the weight of the motor by the amount of manual winder mechanics which are not needed. They are not so light.Power windows used to be a pure cost and weight addition when windows were designed for manual winders in the base model. Now that even the base model has power windows the door design has been optimised a lot.

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:35:41 pm
content: Turn signals, if people would use them, but you have to make sure you keep the blinker fluid fresh, and headlights. Scratch that, I actually want to vote forthe electric starter, otherwise we'd all be using the hand crank. This one is too difficult, I keep editing my answers.1.) electric starter2.) headlights3.) turn signals

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:37:04 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 17, 2017, 05:13:29 pmAnd literally cheaper in the sense of lower reliability and more expensive repairs but that is just more income.Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 17, 2017, 05:19:34 pmAnd increased weight from wiring, and controls, and whatnot.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 05:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 17, 2017, 05:31:18 pmThe winder mechanism is basically the same scissor mechanism. That makes sense, as you still need to convert a rotary force into a linear one. If I am to believe the internet, a motor unit weighs between 0.5 to 1 kilogram, which is basically what I said.Cars of equal size have become much heavier in recent years, due to all the extra electronics, optimized or not.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 06:02:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 17, 2017, 05:45:08 pmCars have mostly become much heavier trying to get good results in crash tests. Engines have a lot of extra stuff on them, like turbochargers, but other aspects of the engine are generally lighter these days - e.g. even cheap cars have aluminium engines now. I'm not sure how those changes add up. The electronics in cars weighs very little.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 06:11:19 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 17, 2017, 06:02:27 pmOr like for pickups in the US, they have become deliberately heavier because regulations require it so they may meet lower fuel economy standards. The laws allegedly intended for raising fuel economy and lowering pollution act to do the opposite. It is literally unlawful to sell new "light" pickups which would have higher fuel economy producing less pollution in the US.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 06:15:52 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 17, 2017, 06:02:27 pmThe electronics in cars weigh quite a bit. Even just the air bags constitute a considerable weight. There's all sorts of electronics being added all over the car, servos, motors, ABS systems, you name it. There's more weight in electronics in cars than ever.A lot of the weight added comes from safety systems, and much of that is electronic. The passive structure isn't that much more heavier. Making a car sturdy is never the intent, as that doesn't absorb energy in case of a crash. Older cars could survive crashes better than today's cars, but unfortunately did kill their passengers in the process.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 17, 2017, 06:15:52 pmUsed to have a Citroen with hydraulic suspension, and joke was that the hydraulic suspension was necessary to support the weight of the toolbox every owner carried around in case of a hydraulic problem.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:14:08 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 17, 2017, 06:02:27 pmSince the 70's average non-US passenger vehicle weight has roughly doubled up to the 2010's and has eased off slightly since then, the shift to large and heavy non-car platforms has been clear. If you look to the US (http://faculty.washington.edu/dwhm/files/MacKenzie%20Zoepf%20Heywood%20as%20submitted.pdf) they started from a base of oversized "tanks" which hides the change the rest of the world saw. During that time the weight of electronics jumped in the 80's and then hasn't changed so much since as most of the parts can be made smaller and cheaper, the actuators are the heavy parts but they still remain a small part of the weight budget for a car. Take two cars from 30-40 years apart that you think of as the same size and put them next to each other, cars have ballooned in size and what used to be a family sized vehicle is now a "compact", weight scaling roughly to the 3rd power of the linear dimension.Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 17, 2017, 06:15:52 pmHaving stripped cars old and new the electronics and in particular safety such as airbags etc do not make a significant weight in the car, total weight of all safety components is similar to a full spare wheel+tire (remember those). The heaviest parts are actuators such as power steering, all the safety hardware is likely to weigh less than the air conditioning (noted in this thread as essential equipment by many people).Most of the additional weight has been in the chassis/monocoque body improving the passenger cell strength, recall back to a time when side impact protection was not tested or required and rollover strength was met with A pillars less than an inch across. All that has changed and the passenger cell is now a rigid structure with impact crush depths front and rear, high strength mounts for the seats and restraint system etc. Weight savings now being made are in the extensive use of plastic for body panels and interior structure.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:19:37 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 17, 2017, 03:32:37 pmStill sounds suspicious, there will almost certainly be logging on the ABS ECU (which may not be visible to workshop tools) and that you fix the problem by turning off traction control makes it sound like not a fault with ABS but some other functionality. Certainly not a reason to suggest ABS shouldn't be installed on vehicles.If you're using ABS on ice without studs or chains of course its going to be inferior, put some appropriate treads to the road surface.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 01:51:51 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on December 17, 2017, 04:44:18 amYeah, my driver side window had not been able to open for over a year now. The passenger side is now beginning to scream when used.I had asked my mechanics to fix it, but he doesn't think he will find all the needed parts (for a 20 year old car) to put it back together. He further suggested while he will be glad to take my money to achieve nothing, it is best to leave it as is.If my passenger side window fails too, I have two back windows and a sunroof for air... plus another car that I can use, so situation is hopeless but not desperate.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 01:59:47 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 18, 2017, 01:51:51 amMy fav for keeping them working well is powdered graphite, can be a bit messy so use with care.Use on manual winders too....slipperrrrrrry stuff.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:27:20 am
content: Car Dooris a metal container that helps the rusting process ofPower Windowsover time.water condensation on the top glass will flow down were evaporation is inhibited by the metal container.giving the rusting process more time to attack electrical contacts and insulation.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 07:47:33 am
content: That’s very true. The driver’s side window in my car hasn’t opened for 2 yearsOccasionally it vibrates down an inch so I have to get out and grab both sides and ram it back up again.

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 08:33:11 am
content: I am glad that my car beeps at me when I forget to turn of headlights when I pull out the ignition key.And it also has an interior light which I can turn ON/OFF whenever I want !

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 08:44:55 am
content: Quote from: Naguissa on December 17, 2017, 01:23:01 pmI have a deep concern about systems that encourage the lessening of situational awareness. This sort of thing can lead to dependence on such systems to the point that the driver could lose that skill - relying only on the system performing as theyexpect... which may be far more than what it wasdesignedfor andcapable ofachieving.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 10:35:50 am
content: After seeing all the replies in this thread, I have to add this two to my most like (useful) list:0. Radio - I wont buy a car that doesn't have AM radio1. Cruse control - I wont buy a car that doesn't have cruse control1.5 Head light on warning when car is turned off1.6 Radar detector. I don't speed much these days, but it keeps me alert.2. Trip computer (I particularly like my previous VW's), dual, one manually clear/set and one automatically clears and restart after 2 hours (presumably new trip) displaying MPG, Miles, time.3. Exterior temperature display (don't care when in the Summer, but rely on it in the Winter)4. Stop watch - I found I use that a lot. In fact, I would like it dual or multiple ones. With a tie to trip computer is also a good thing but in that case I want more than dual.4.1 Dash cam - I don't have one, but I wish I did when some lady turn right from the left lane. I saw her and I came to a complete stop, but she forced on and crush my left front fender. I had the luck of getting an auxiliary policeman responding. He refused to just walk up 20 feet to see that the left lane was no-turns-allow. So the whole thing was a mess.

author: Ridocar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 10:49:41 am
content: In my car (a baby-blue '07 Skoda Roomster):1. The cruise control2. The car stereo (with navigation)In my truck ('12 MB Actros 1840):1. The automated gearbox.On my bike ('85 Honda Shadow VT500):1. The tail-light warning indicator.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 10:52:22 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 18, 2017, 10:35:50 amI'd like a head light warning I can see when the car is on. The "lights" and "main beam" indicators are usually placed where the steering wheel prevents a tall driver seeing them. In general, the dashboard in most cars is laid over very badly for anyone tall.

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 01:04:53 pm
content: Never use a radio or music player - waste of effort for me.Must have air-con - refuse to get in without itEBD (as it is AWD) Also love my HDC as well.Turbo diesel engine - a total must have - with horrible catalytic converter and egr removed. No petrol rubbish.(90% of vehicles are good old diesel where I currently live - (Portugal))Leccy windows,Lecky mirrors,Central locking,Good lights.Traffic recording cams front and rear. (for the other idiots)GPS - NOT built in - a stand alone unit.ClockFag lighter for plugging things in. (like GPS - sat nav)Rev counter,SpeedoTemp gaugeOil light.Lights on warningOh, and the most important thing ! - automatic 'Via Verde' toll payment tag.Thats about it really.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:31:28 pm
content: Quote from: Freelander on December 18, 2017, 01:04:53 pmAircon in the UK? Now that's a joke!

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 18, 2017, 02:31:28 pmWell, as I happen to live in Portugal, it is not..Even in the UK, it is an absolute godsend in the winter for rapidly demisting and keeping the glass clear - air con on full and heating on full - and - it IS useful on one or two days in the UK summer.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 04:40:56 pm
content: Well, let's just take EFI, ABS, electrically adjustable and foldable wing mirrors, "climate" A/C, reversing camera and a few others as read. You'd have to work pretty hard to find a new car from a reputable manufacturer *without* them in 2018 models.I never use the radio. I do play music from my phone on longer trips, and nav directions from my phone over the car's audio system is handy.I will never again buy a car without a cruise control that is capable of following the car in front at a set (and adjustable) distance. If it can do that, you'll always I think get automatic emergency braking included too.The cheapest cars I currently know of with that are the Subaru range, from Impreza and Crosstrek/XV up. In NZ (and I think Aus) the EyeSight system is standard even on the base model. In the USA it's an extra cost option, for just a couple of thousand dollars. Base Impreza is NZ$29990 RRP including tax but not ORC.https://www.subaru.co.nz/showroom/impreza/compare#state=compare&variants=523In the US you need "Premium" trim level at $22155 plus $1395 Eyesight package = $23550.If anyone can point me at a cheaper car with this great safety and convenience feature then please tell me as I'm likely to be in the market for a car in the next 12 months.

author: Azu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 03:34:06 am
content: Personally..In ranking1. Not Electronic but a Stick/Manual Transmission2. A/C3. Auto Headlights4. Reverse Camera (makes life soo much easier at times)5. Bluetooth or Android Auto6. Oil Temp7. Heated Windshield/Mirrors8. Adjustable Rev WarningI love my WRX STI

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:02:58 am
content: Quote from: Azu on December 19, 2017, 03:34:06 amWhen are you going to get a proper car? ;-)Seriously though, for me, the basics will do. That is air conditioning, bluetooth, cruise control, auto-lights, decent performance and a comfortable ride, but none of that overrides safety. I drive a European car with more safety features you can poke a stick at (and I'm not talking about distracting ones like Subaru's dodgy EyeSight system).Speaking of Subaru, I enjoyed seeing a WRX in my rear view mirror, as he was left in the dust of a Volvo today.

author: Azu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:33:37 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 19, 2017, 04:02:58 amNot going to lie, I like the rumble and all but an Inline Five... Ooooooh, Eargasmic.But enough derailing of the thread.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:58:28 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 18, 2017, 08:44:55 amIn the old days vehicle safety was mostly about protecting the occupants from external assault. These days it seems to be about protecting the occupants from the driver.I'm with you. This level of automation is reaching a point where people rely on it. "Oh I can just relax and not pay attention as the car will save me from myself".Years ago I had the first gen Audi TT Quattro (the one that kept forgetting which end was the front on the Autobahn and killing the occupants in the ensuing rollover). The ESC that was fitted after that was amazing, and I experienced it first hand when I hit a diesel spill on a left hand off ramp at speed. The ESC just danced around independently braking each wheel and feeling for grip until it brought the car around to where i had the wheel pointed (which was 90 degrees from where it went when it hit the spill) and saved me from a certain bender with the armco and a ride in the hee-haw wagon. It doesn't matter how good a driver I was, I was never going to be able to independently brake all 4 wheels and do what the computer did. If I was out for a squirt I'd turn it off, but around town I called it my "get out of jail free" card. I never ever wanted to rely on it however.On the other hand, it also malfunctioned and applied brakes to the left hand side of the car while I was on the freeway one day. Just long enough to soil my underpants, but not long enough to cause me to lose control. So, not perfect.While I kinda agree to an extent with the extra electronics being applied these days, the necessity seems to be more due to poor driver training rather than any huge improvement in safety.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:23:03 am
content: Quote from: Azu on December 19, 2017, 03:34:06 amSince you are in Canada - you probably accidentally omitted heated wind-shield washer nozzle with your "option #7". Something you don't think you need until the nozzle freeze up with ice around it. We had a bad snow day (not even so heavy) just 2 days ago. My regular 2 hour drive turned into a 6 hour thing. I had to break ice off the washer nozzle a few times. I much prefer not to have to stop on the side of a snowed-in road and be outside the car doing things like that.As to manual transmission, that is for a car designed for driving. Automatic transmission is designed for a car for just moving people. Diving into a 90 degree turn at 50mph+, brake as you dive into the turn, down-shift into 2nd and pull out of the turn, and back to 40+ just as the car straightens out. That's what makes driving fun. You can't do that with an automatic - electronically controlled or otherwise.

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:35:51 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 18, 2017, 01:51:51 amI sold my car two months ago due new legal pollution laws here. It was a 25 years old BMW 320 E36. Still original power windows without any repair.Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:37:59 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 18, 2017, 08:44:55 amBut this are humans' fault. There's always that dilemma, with all helps, but still think it's a positive enhancement.Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:43:26 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 18, 2017, 08:44:55 amHumans suck at doing tedious things. If you can reduce the cognitive load of those things, you can increase the attention paid to more important things. You'll need to carefully balance that indeed.Luckily for us, we've got many decades of experience with aircraft avionics and where to aid the pilot and where not to. Even though they are well trained professionals, a humans is still a human.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:53:52 am
content: Not an electronic, of course at the time I wish it was electronic, but, I did find it/her useful. My ex would often remind me my blinker was on and that it needed to be turned off after turns.But, then again, she also thought they were needing blinker fluid too, after I told her they weren't operating correctly because they were low on it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:56:40 am
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on December 19, 2017, 07:53:52 amDo you perhaps have a problem with your hearing?

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:01:22 am
content: yes. I often had a problem 'hearing her'All seriousness. I love my steering wheel controls for the radio. Don't even take my eyes off the road half the time. I'm about to install a new after market stereo, with Android Auto so I can access my music on my phone and stuff. I hope (with the module I bought), that the steering wheel controls will work, like the iPhone control does on some decks that control the iPhone for changing tracks and such.

author: rbm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 11:55:57 am
content: For the cold half the year, I really appreciate the electric steering wheel heater in the Mercedes and heated handgrips on the BMW motorcycle in the warmhalf of the year.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 01:31:58 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 18, 2017, 10:52:22 amMy car at the time didn't have a headlight reminder, so I bought a cheap Radio Shack module sold for that purpose. I never got around to wiring it in, but I never left my lights on again ... Having it tied to the keyring reminded me to check every time I removed the keys from the ignition.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 03:42:01 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on December 17, 2017, 09:19:37 pmShow me where I suggest ABS shouldn't be installed on vehicles.At 15 or so thousand miles, this car started to set the traction control every time you drove the car above 20 or so MPH. Fault code was for a wheel speed sensor but when I looked, both tone rings cracked. The replacement rings were about 2X thicker. No brake codes have set after that repair. I have a car that when I would start it from time to time, the message center would flash that the ABS was damaged. There was actually a note in the manual that said to restart engine and if the code cleared, it was most likely alright. It took them some time, but they did find the problem and corrected the firmware. It makes you wonder how well they test their code if things like this knowingly get released.I fully agree with your last comment. This may indeed be a solution where you drive but studs and chains are no longer in use where I am and have not been for many years. There is no laws against using studded tires that are approved however, there are no approved tires.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:28:33 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 19, 2017, 01:31:58 pmI don't understand why a reminder would be preferable to a car that simply turned off the headlights when you turn the key to OFF!This is not rocket science or expensive to do. Every motorcycle I've ever ridden has done this -- even the cheapest. So do all Subaru cars dating back to at least the early 90s (personal experience). Maybe others do too.I even modified my father's Kingswood 202 wagon to do this when I was a teenager in the late 1970s. I was crawling under the dashboard anyway to add a home-made 555 and veroboard intermittent control to the wipers, and while I was there I changed the radio to always have power, and the headlight relay coil to only have power if the key was on -- as I recall I simply switched the spade connectors for the two of them!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:39:43 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 19, 2017, 04:28:33 pmHaving the option of using the lights without being near the car to prevent anyone driving away with it has been useful in the past, both in the sense of wanting to see something else and leaving your vehicle somewhere and wanting to be sure it gets seen.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 04:48:29 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 19, 2017, 04:28:33 pmI think there may be regulations preventing this in some countries. Long ago I had a car which turned off the main headlights, but left the parking lights on when you took out the key. Later versions of the same car didn't turn off the headlights. They might have been stripping a little cost, but I think they'd fallen foul of some regulation.Even if the headlights are switched off automatically, you still want a warning that the parking lights are on, so you can make an informed decision about whether they need to be left on.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:19:22 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2017, 05:30:30 pmHow do you snap a TIMING belt in a diesel(very interference engine by design), and not notice that your valves are now part of your pistons, or that the engine is not running anymore, nor it wont run anymore without extensive parts and labor done..I call BS..

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:21:31 pm
content: VW solved that by using the indicator stalk as a sidelight switch. park, remove key and set the indicators to the side in the street, and that side park lights turn on. Open the door and the chime/buzzer will sound to let you know the lights are on, and it shuts up when you close the door. Been that way since at least 1998.Headlights that can be only on with the engine running are common these days though, many cars have this as standard, in those vehicles that do not have daylight running lights.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:44:26 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 19, 2017, 06:21:31 pm'70's Mk 3 Ford Cortinas had this too.QuoteJaps where onto this earlier too.QuoteBut IMO you need to be able to override this.Numerous times I've wanted a good source of light and car headlights on while the engine is not running definitely won't hurt a good battery. Some interlock system were if the key is pulled and then headlights turned on is trivial to implement in this day and age.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:03:03 pm
content: My headlights on the truck turn on with windshield wipers and when it gets dusk/darker outside. That part of it plays hell on my new LED lights. It makes them strobe as during that time of day when light slowly turns to dark, the light sensor in the truck is turning off/on at a rapid rate trying to decide what to do. It makes my headlights strobe or pulse. The company sent me a resistor (50W 6ohm) to put inline with the LED's, but, I haven't installed them yet to see if it fixes the problem. Lately I've just been manually turning the headlights on just to avoid the strobing/pulsing problem.The headlights turning on when wipers are switched on is a great idea, but the light/dark sensor sucks. If that resistor doesn't work, I need to find a way to disable that sensor.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:48:31 pm
content: Fuel injection, electronic ignition, antilock brakes, intermittent wiper delay, radio is nice but please give me a standard DIN slot and don't integrate it into everything else, grr. Ambient temperature gauge is useful but not essential. Heated seats are nice but not sure I'd call them "electronics."Virtually everything else is frivolous. I hate those automatic power windows that run the window all the way down when you try to open it a crack, I seriously don't understand the appeal at all, how hard is it to hold the button down for a few seconds if one wants the window all the way down? I almost never want to fully open it. Also I loathe touchscreens and features hidden in multi level menus, just give me a row of physical switches that I can operate without taking my eyes off the road, stop trying to "de-clutter" by hiding everything!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 04:39:43 pmI don't mind having an override that allows the headlights to be turned on with the ignition off but the default should always be turn off the lights when you turn off the ignition. My '77 and '84 Volvos allow you to leave the headlights on easily, starting in '86 the lights go off with the ignition but you can still turn the parking lights on, this makes a lot more sense.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 07:54:16 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 07:51:48 pmSometimes you need a little more than parking lights. I don't see the problem with the lights turning on and off whenever you like, as long as there's the little beeper warning you you left them on. It's never been a problem so far.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:17:20 pm
content: It's been a problem for me, I've drained a battery flat at least twice in my life by leaving the headlights on inadvertently and it happens to countless other people and is a major inconvenience. My cars had a beeper to remind but it's really easy to tune that out and not even notice when getting out of a car in a hurry. Like I said, go ahead and provide an override switch somewhere but by default it's a lot more sensible to have them turn off automatically. It would be pretty easy to have an override switch in some other location, or a button with a simple latching circuit that will revert the next time the vehicle is turned off.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:21:58 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 08:17:20 pmIt's a problem I have trouble imagining having, but I guess some people do. Though it kinda sorta is on yourself if you manage to drown out a thing that alerting youI for sure prefer the headlight to be separated from the key. It's annoying enough to have the windows stop working when you pull out the key.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 08:39:09 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 19, 2017, 03:42:01 pmTake some responsibility, if you can't fit chains or studs then don't drive on ice! its not that complicated. This smacks of the people who drive through flood waters in a car without checking the depth or seeing another (snorkel equipped) vehicle traverse the crossing and then complain when they get stuck. You need to understand the limitations of your vehicle and drive within them. But since you seem to have forgotten what you said, you opened up with a rather unambiguous statement regarding not wanting to purchase a vehicle with ABS:Quote from: joeqsmith on December 16, 2017, 08:47:12 pmBut now we hear the vehicle causing concern was throwing fault codes and needed repair to the failing wheel sensors which is an obvious cause/effect that any competent mechanic would have found quickly. Might as well complain about a flat tire and try finding cars with airless systems because they're causing more accidents than faulty ABS systems.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:03:47 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on December 19, 2017, 08:39:09 pmYou seem unable to understand that there are no approved tires and not driving when there is ice is not an option. I don't typically ride a bike on ice but you are correct that I did not buy a new one because it was not offered without ABS. I don't trust it on a car and I certainly would never trust it on a bike. That's my choice to make.Yes the brake controller threw a fault code, not codes. And yes the dash did lite the traction control indicator. The few times the car has had this problem were several miles after the tone rings were replaced but I guess you can assume the two are related.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:18:17 pm
content: I should mention that I had to replace the front wheel bearings as well on this same car which also did cause the brake controller to set a fault code as well. The problem with the traction control has happened after replacing them as well as prior. I've also changed the front rotors and pads. No fault codes with those, just PM.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:19:22 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 08:21:58 pmI'm never going to claim to win any awards for short term memory or lack of distraction. I'm certainly not the only person though, I remember back in the 80s when most cars could have the lights left on it was very common to see parked cars with the lights left on. Quite a few times I have given someone a jump start to rescue them from this situation.The headlights in my '90 turn off with the ignition so I often just leave the switch on rather than turning the lights on only when needed. Other than the slight fuel penalty and reduced lamp life there are few issues with doing so.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:25:15 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on December 19, 2017, 07:53:52 amSpeaking of wife/girl-friend...Well, normally, my car is not equipped with side airbag... until my wife seats next to me. Also, when an airbag is deployed, it can hit the driver's face enough for nose to bleed. This side airbag of mine when deployed can make other very sensitive area of my body hurts a hell of a lot worst than nose bleed.(Joke made with love at heart, so don't take it is anything bad).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:28:33 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 09:19:22 pmI was wondering about this. There are a number of things you do when you park your car, right? Straighten your wheels. Turn off the ignition. Check to see your parking brake is on, so the car doesn't roll away. Disengage the transmission if you have a manual, or put in in a gear to assist the parking brake. Put the car in park if you have an automatic transmission. Roll up the windows. Check all the doors are properly shut. Do you get those wrong regularly?It's not about always having your headlights on, as far as I'm concerned. Plenty of people do that, but it's just part of the starting and parking sequence. I don't think there are many models around here that turn off the lights as you turn off the ignition, other than those with fully automatic headlights. I can't remember ever seeing a car parked with the headlights on. I've seen one or two with the interior light on, though.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 19, 2017, 09:03:47 pmNot driving is always an option, some times I might be planning that walking might not be an option. If you choose to take an unsuitable vehicle out onto the roads thats your choice. If the local authorities won't permit any studded tires to be used and ban chains then they are sending a clear message (or you have greatly misinterpreted the actual rules).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on December 19, 2017, 09:30:28 pmStudded tires and chains are often prohibited, unless there's a thick and consistent and layer of snow. You absolutely destroy any road surface if you drive over it with chains or studs, which leads to lots of loose debris and rocks when things thaw.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:34:34 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 19, 2017, 04:28:33 pmAbsolutely agree. For the rare occasion that you do want the lights to stay on, there could be a light-on button which resets to off each time you turn off the engine. (So you have to actually press ON after shutting the engine).Oh, as to the "normal parking procedure", often, head lights are left on during day time in the rain. During day time, some of the night-specific parking steps got skipped by the brain.I actually don't like some cars that keep the head lights on for a minute or so after the car turned off, and then it shuts the head light. A car with head light on for a while calls attention to itself and then allows car thieves extra time to identify which car just got left unattended.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:45:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 19, 2017, 09:28:33 pmThings like shutting off the key, turning the wheels toward the curb, putting it in gear, setting the parking brake, those are all part of my regular "mental checklist" that I do every time. The headlights on the other hand I may use sometimes and not others. Maybe it's light out but I go through a dark tunnel so I turn them on, then I get out into the daylight and I don't think to turn them off. Or it's dark when I leave for work in the morning so I turn them on but the sun is out by the time I arrive and I'm not thinking about headlights. Then I park and get out and looking at the headlight switch is not something that occurs to me because I haven't driven at night in a few days so I haven't used them regularly. I don't know, clearly you have superior mental abilities to many people and that's great but certainly it's easy to forget something, people do it all the time.Heck I've seen people drive off with a coffee cup on the roof of their car. There have been cases of people driving off with the gas pump hose still connected, their child in a carseat sitting on the roof or forgetting they have a kid or a pet in the car when they get home. People leave windows and sunroofs open getting rain inside the car all the time. Not infrequently I see someone driving around downtown at night who's forgotten to turn their headlights *on*. People forget to lock their front door when they leave, people forget to turn off the stove when they're done cooking something, people forget to turn off the tap and overflow the tub. Stuff happens, distractions are a thing, the human brain is not as good at multitasking as many people think, that's why gadgets and technology exists to prevent stuff like this.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 09:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 09:45:18 pmI don't claim to have superior mental abilities. I just get terribly confused why people can run through a checklist and get all the other things right, with this suddenly being a game breaker. I haven't seen other people struggling with this either, probably thanks to the alarm. Yay technology! So I don't feel I'm an exception either. It seems a matter of simple discipline well within the capabilities or any somewhat functioning adult. And trust me, quite a few people will hesitate to call me a disciplined adult

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:12:30 pm
content: Because it's not part of the regular checklist if you don't use the headlights every time you drive, and headlights are one of the few car features fitting that specific use pattern. Every other accessory that gets intermittent/irregular use also turns off when the ignition is off. If I used the lights every time it would be no problem to remember to turn them on each time I start the car and off again each time I park, but in practice I use the headlights maybe 10% of the time I drive, frequently in the winter then hardly ever in the summer. The irregularity makes it something I can easily forget. Other things like putting on my seatbelt, releasing the parking brake, look behind me before reversing, those are things I do every single time I get in the driver's seat. Other occasional stuff like turning on the wipers, the rear defogger, adjusting the heat or the mirrors is something I'm automatically reminded to do by situations that require it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:15:44 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 10:12:30 pmThe solution is simple. Use them every time. You'll be seen better in daylight too.Just because I'm curious: do you end up without gas very often?

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 10:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2017, 10:12:30 pmWe usually end up with the headlights on as there are tunnels on our main routes. Even though they are well illuminated it is illegal here to not use dipped beam in tunnels. Quite often we just leave them on. My Landy screams at me if I turn off the key and open the door with the lights on, my brides nearly new Panda simply turns them off - silently - which is nice.. The panda has a really good manual delay function for the lights that you set with the indicator (R) after ignition off. Each push up is 30 seconds delay. Excellent for illuminating the rather awkward path from her parking area to the house. The Landy I just drive up to the house in any weather.I am surprised some are against ABS. It is exceptionally good. Cadence braking is all well and good but not a patch on a real abs system. ABS reacts FAR faster and in a better manner than any human operator could. I can see special cases for not wanting it -on a track car etc (can't comment on motor bikes as never ridden one on the road) , but on the road I think it (ABS) is a godsend. It should never operate before a wheel is actually sensed as stopped. (ABS mode - not ABD or Traction). Each to their own though on that one.Left foot braking in a front wheel drive is also not 'good' with ABS... not recommended on the queens highway though...Usually have fun at the IPO (MOT / annual Safety test) as the ABS warning light on the dash of the landy doesn't turn off until the speed is over 5 MPH. (so as to check the reluctor rings) - old tech but quality Wabco bullet proof ABS AWD TC system. The local test station is now aware of how the ABS test and warning light operate on this model. Amazing also how many times they seem to forget and leave the ignition on when brake roller testing vehicles too.- yikes ! . Luckily here we can walk through the bay with them during the test, they are generally really good.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 11:02:36 pm
content: I think the anti-ABS thing is largely a holdover from the days when there were some truly bad ABS implementations. Also some aversion to change, which I'm as guilty of as anyone although ABS in particular I've found to be beneficial. That may not be the case for someone who had spent years driving cars without ABS, it can be difficult to change that habit and stand firm on the pedal instead of trying to modulate it oneself. That said, there are other factors that are more important to me than whether or not a vehicle has ABS. The brakes in some cars are much better than others, particularly when discussing older cars. My '77 Volvo has superb brakes, even by modern standards. 4 wheel disc, power assist, twin hydraulic circuits, with 4-piston fixed calipers on the front and twin piston fixed calipers in the rear, no ABS obviously but it tracks straight and stops on a dime, even heavily loaded. The '88 Ford Ranger I used to drive had terrible brakes, manual with no power assist, drums in the rear, it was actually a bit scary when going down a hill with any kind of load in the back.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 11:03:02 pm
content: I can see how some people don't like older ABS systems, as it could be a bit fickle, but modern ABS is so incredibly good that it will take some very exceptional circumstances for it not to be a better than not having it. It's like having a seatbelt. Some people would have been better off without one, but in general, it's a very good idea, even if you have excellent command of your vehicle.We did some braking and skidding on a parking lot with a lot of snow and ice and ABS did its job very nicely.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 12:37:54 am
content: Not in any particular order:My must have list:Car stereo with Bluetooth.Bluetooth hands free.Keyless entry (RFID) with ‘walk away lock’ feature.Reversing camera.Front parking sonar.Electric windows.ABS.Daylight controlled automatic headlights.Fully automatic wipers. (Detects rain/heaviness/speed)Air-con.Automatic programmable electric seat position determined by the RFID used to unlock the car. (My wife is a shorty and she sometimes drives my car.)My Ok to have because my current car has it list:Auto headlight high beam / dip control.Heated seats.Traction control.My rated as useless list:Lane departure warning.Blind spot alarm.Collision mitigation. (Only because it seems unreliable on my current Mazda CX-5)Cruise control. (Very few places in NZ where it is useful IMO)Cruise control with the 'match the car aheads speed' feature.Automatic parallel parking system.Electric boot/trunk door lifter.In car Nav. For me Google Maps on my phone is far superior to any in car solution I have seen.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 01:37:14 am
content: Quite a few of those items could be easily solved by providing a standard DIN or double DIN slot for an aftermarket stereo. I hate having everything integrated, especially when it involves tech that is quickly obsolete.Most of the other stuff I personally would file under useless or worse. I don't like anything automatic, just give me nicely laid out tactile switches to control it all. I don't particularly like keyless entry and keyless ignition is even more useless. Wipers that try to detect rain speed seems like a solution looking for a problem, a feature that is destined to malfunction and annoy me, I don't care if it's there as long as I have a way to disable it. Backup cam and parking sonar can be nice in some vehicles but I'd take good visibility over that stuff any day. Most of the newer cars I've driven have horrid visibility with gigantic blind spots, huge wide sloping A and C pillars.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:29:55 am
content: My previous car lacked one thing.. a dumb-arse switch.One pole for "I know what the freakin' heck I'm doing - do NOT sound any warnings" and the other pole for "I'm a dumb-arse so play all those gongs, beeps, air raid sirens and clatter when I get in and start the vehicle with my backpack is sitting on the passenger seat"

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 04:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 20, 2017, 01:37:14 amWhen the stereo becomes obsolete, throw the car away and buy a new one. Just wait until entertainment systems in cars become dependent on the internet and the manufacturer can charge support fees.In the countries which have deprecated AM and/or FM broadcasts, do they rely on subscription services for emergency broadcasts?

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 04:43:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mr.B on December 20, 2017, 12:37:54 amI'm with you there. Except for the wide open spaces in the South Island. Which is still part of NZ, last time I checked. I'll be checking again in two weeks, in Mum's RAV with cruise control. You can get from Darfield to Queenstown catching very very few other cars, depending on the time of day.QuoteBut this is useful all everywhere the standard cruise control is *not*. Amazing feature on crowded roads. I reckon if everyone had it, you'd just about eliminate the traditional Easter, Labour Weekend, Christmas death toll.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 04:48:01 pm
content: Quote from: Freelander on December 19, 2017, 10:54:12 pmI remember the Gen 1 Freelanders, there were always a lot of them in the shop for minor work, like replacing entire transmissions and drivetrains. Kind of funny to have a vehicle that is built by a company that built the reputation of " goes where a goat can go", and which then built a vehicle that could barely negotiate kerbs.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 05:33:01 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 20, 2017, 04:48:01 pmLand Rover have always build cars with serious weaknesses. The traditional "go anywhere" Land Rover couldn't really go anywhere, unless you took a plentiful supply of spare half shafts. The Land Cruiser has generally been the true go anywhere vehicle.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:00:22 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 20, 2017, 04:43:21 pmI have only ever used it twice - during a test drive of a new vehicle and once in a loan car from the dealer while my car was being serviced.Quite frankly it scared me.You do have a valid point about the potential to reduce rear end incidents though.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:35:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mr.B on December 20, 2017, 07:00:22 pmCan I ask what kind of car? (and year)QuoteAnd general fatigue on long trips in heavy traffic. Or simply commuting in hell-holes such as the San Francisco Bay Area.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:50:16 pm
content: re: adaptive cruse control (at least that is what Honda called it)I use regular cruse control mostly so my speed don't drift into speeding ticket range. I think the largest danger with cruse control is when drivers dozed off. Adaptive cruse probably would add to that doze off danger since driver interaction is now reduced further.At least in the USA market, prior to GPS,doze-off alarm(head "tilt" monitor wear on your ear) was very popular with truck drivers. Now with truck speed and driver shift (continuous time worked) managed and logged automatically, doze-off alarm seem to have became a novelty item on the market. You can still find them searching for "driver doze alarm" on google, but it is no where near as ubiquitous.Come to think of it, while I don't have one, this may be another "deem most useful" electronics for car drivers. Each time I nearly felt asleep behind the steering wheel, I wish I have one of those alarms.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 07:59:03 pm
content: What I've recently found hateful on my Mondeo is the rear lights. Most of the bulbs only use one half of a twin element bulb. Some need the type with the prongs opposite each other and some set at an angle. Some just use a single element bulb. Fit the wrong one in the wrong place, which is very easy to do in the dark and you find it blows the fuse, except...it's not a real fuse, its a detection circuit on the ECU and the only way to reset it is to disconnect the battery.I'd love to meet whoever decided to use so many different types of bulbs when one type would have done the job, and I've got a large garden gnome waiting for whoever decided that a fuse wasn't the right way forwards.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 08:01:15 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 20, 2017, 07:50:16 pmI would argue that's treating the symptom, rather than the cause of the problem. Making sure you only drive when you're resting enough seems to be the solution. That sometimes means admitting this won't do and having to change your schedule, which is unfortunately something few people are prepared to do. In my experience, very few people consider whether they're fit to drive and even fewer people act accordingly.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 08:53:13 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 20, 2017, 07:35:46 pmMy current car is a 2016 Mazda CX-5 (Does not have the adaptive cruise control feature)Test drive was: 2016 Honda CR-V Sport (before I opted for the Mazda)Loan car was: 2017 Volkswagen Tiguan (Haven Motors in Nelson are the agents for both Mazda and Volkswagen locally.)I am due for a new car in October 2018.At the moment the 2018 Honda CR-V Sport is top of my list.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 09:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 20, 2017, 08:01:15 pmWho in the professional world hasn't gone to work with inadequate sleep? Of course, we all push the envelop at times and sometime we loose the gamble.But, long hours of driving alone has a hypnotic effect - particularly with the lack of interaction. One can get sleepy even when one is well rested. Tired or not, I frequently carry a bottle of tea or coffee, not so much for the caffeine but for the occasional action of taking a sip makes me feel more refresh and alert. So, preventing doze-off is beyond driving while tired.With truck drivers and professional drivers, the situation is different - their schedule should certainly allocate sufficient time for rest.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 09:28:22 pm
content: Sure is obvious that people on this thread drive in very different conditions. Something that is a must have in one area is rated useless in others. Some of these things I didn't realize I needed until I had them.1. Intermittent windshield wipers. Almost standard now. Useless in places where there are never light rains or mists. Invaluable where they do happen.2. Electric window openers. Also almost standard. Not needed for the driver window, or when passenger seats are filled, but great when driving alone.3. Power door locks. Another almost standard. Makes it much easier to unlock doors for passengers, and to lock them when the passengers are gone.4. Basic cruise control. A frill for those who only commute a few miles, or whose driving is always on roads with no long stretches of constant speed. Absolute heaven in the western US where it is common to have hours of constant speed, no distractions, little or no traffic.Although I don't have any vehicles with them yet, I suspect that the tire pressure monitors would fall into my need category. I suspect that I am not alone in not checking tire pressure every few days. A feature that doesn't exist to my knowledge, but should and shouldn't cost much would be to use the ECU and BCU data and computing resources to do predictive maintenance recommendations. MAF data should tell when the air filter needs changing for example. Monitoring cam, crank and other sensors should tell when the timing chain is coming up for replacement. The list goes on and on. That would be far better than the existing standard maintenance intervals.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 10:15:48 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 20, 2017, 09:28:22 pmOr going through small towns where speeding ticket funds a good percentage of the town's budget. I set my cruse so any foot-jitter wont cost me big bucks.Police on highways usually give drivers a +- 5mph margin, small town is where it really hurts. Around me (NJ), there are plenty of small towns and in general very serious about the speed limit. I had similar experience living in the mid-west. Little town = Big tickets. You sure are not going to wake up at 5am to drive a couple of hours to a far away town for the 8:00am court date just to contest the ticket, so you just paid it. They count on that! Cruse control makes holding a steady low speed a lot easier.This one cruse control isn't going to help but it reaffirms theircommitment to let out-of-towners fund their down. I frequently drive by this small town along a state route. Town speed is 25mph, and at the last stop light just before town exit, a very visible large 45mph sign 100 feet (or so) beyond the light. Just before the 45mph sign and behind a dumpster, more than 1/2 the time, a police car is hidden behind that dumpster with instant-on radar gun! Very often, people pulling away when the light turn green get pre-conditioned by the 45mph sign to accelerate too much. They reached beyond 25mph but before reaching the 45mph sign -- yikes! Your wallet just got thinner.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2017, 10:22:27 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 20, 2017, 10:15:48 pmIn this age of speed cameras littering most UK highways, I find myself looking at the speedo instead of the road far too much. Cruise control lets you focus on the road in these circumstances, so its a safety as well as fine reduction issue.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 01:34:34 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 20, 2017, 10:22:27 pmTry a vehicle with an adjustable speed limiter (often a feature of the cruise control) you control the go pedal and it backs off as you approach the set limit, so simple and relaxing to drive in lower limit areas where you can't engage the cruise and sit at a steady speed as you then pay no attention to the speedo and focus on traffic instead.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 10:02:11 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on December 20, 2017, 08:53:13 pmHave you tried the Subaru XV?I'll probably be in the market for a vehicle in this class as well soon, but I haven't got as far as test driving the competitors yet. I test drove a then several year old XV from Petone up the Rimutaka Hill in early 2015, but then moved to Russia :-) The 2018 model is quite different and seems on paper to be one of the leading contenders. I drove a slightly older CRV recently and often drive my mum's RAV4 and neither of them excite me. CX5 looks interesting in several ways, but doesn't have anything like Subaru's "EyeSight" system available.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 10:07:37 am
content: Well-integrated satnav and bluetooth phone handsfree.I hate cruise control-taking the human out of the loop makes it too easy to lose concentration and end up too close to the car in front.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 10:09:17 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 21, 2017, 10:07:37 amThe best satnav I've used was an integrated system, but those tend to be very expensive to purchase and update and sometimes updates simply aren't available, leaving you stuck with defunct hardware in your car.

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 10:23:54 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scam on December 20, 2017, 08:01:15 pmAbout sums it up really.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2017, 10:39:07 am
content: Quote from: Freelander on December 21, 2017, 10:23:54 amI'm glad you fully agree with my post. Driving tired is common and quite dangerous.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2017, 07:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: aargee on December 20, 2017, 07:29:55 amAll those nagging beeps and gongs and I've yet to drive a car that has audible warning horns for two things I actually care about, loss of oil pressure and high coolant temperature. I blew a heater hose once and would have had a major repair on my hands had I not happened to glance down and see the temperature gauge pegged. My little brother had the garbage aftermarket plastic heater valve break and we had to change the cylinder head.The trend seems to be to add more and more distracting tech to cars, then add yet more tech to try to prevent mishaps due to the distraction. My mother in law got a new Subaru a year or two ago and I can't stand riding with her, she's constantly fiddling with stupid infotainment gadgets.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2017, 11:30:27 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 22, 2017, 07:26:54 pmModern cars will go into "limp home mode" or cut power completely when they detect conditions that might harm the engine.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2017, 11:48:06 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 22, 2017, 07:26:54 pmWhich might explain why Subaru have included a feature that warns the driver when the vehicle in front has moved off; So many Subaru drivers just seem to have their head somewhere other than driving, usually either fiddling with the ton of buttons on the steering wheel or on their phone. They are among the worst drivers on the road for some reason, either they think they are driving a race car or they are under the illusion that they are the only ones on the road and nothing/no one else matters.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 12:32:29 am
content: I would like a car that measures the block temperature not the coolant, if you lose coolant, the gauge is often happy.A coolant top up warning light saved my block 6/12 ago after a hose came loose.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 02:18:04 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 21, 2017, 10:02:11 amNo, I haven't.Looks pretty good on paper as you say.A little down on power at 115kw, however I don't tow that often so it may not be much of a concern.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 04:12:55 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 23, 2017, 11:48:06 pmI don't know which species of the thinking he owns a fast car and tailgating you in congested traffic driver is more annoying - the typical WRX owner wearing a baseball cap or the Volvo owner with a whole tub of gell in his hair. From all the track testing I have seen the WRX STI (what is it, about 30 grand cheaper?) will match if not slightly pip the 4cyl Volvo Polestar in both 1/4 mile times and the 0-100kph sprint, so I don't know what you are going on about. On the track the current STI typically does a 13.1s or 13.2s and 4.7s or 4.8s respectively and the Polestar maybe 13.4 or 13.5s and 4.9 or 5.0s. The STI does have a dated engine though which still is and was horribly intractable even back when the STI model first debuted years ago. Most owners aren't willing or are just too timid to drop their clutch at 4000 rpm when the lights go green.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:22:58 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on December 24, 2017, 12:32:29 amMost of them do if not directly. Mine is screwed into the cylinder head and while it is intended to measure the temperature of the coolant, I know from experience that loss of coolant doesn't cause the gauge to drop, at least not for very long.As far as limp home mode, if you lose oil pressure or dump the coolant there's no limping home. Driving with no oil pressure is doing serious damage to the engine almost immediately and unless you're in a situation where getting out of it is worth completely destroying the engine it needs to be shut down NOW. Driving without coolant you'll be melting plastic parts and warping cylinder heads within a very short distance. These are both situations which should immediately sound an obnoxious audible alarm.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:32:28 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 24, 2017, 07:22:58 amI gather those would be the mentioned "cut power" situations.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 08:11:04 am
content: ABS brakes. Other driving aids are more annoying than useful at slippery winter conditions up here.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 10:10:43 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 20, 2017, 10:22:27 pmI have a HUD for that. Also, digital speedo is just soo much better than those 19 century analog ones. The old ones only tell a guesstimate.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 10:34:31 am
content: can supercapacitors help your car battery? when cold startingnot replacing it< see video, but just adding some boost the battery ?

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 10:40:09 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 27, 2017, 10:34:31 amDoes this end up being cheaper, unless you salvage caps from somewhere?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 09:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on December 27, 2017, 10:40:09 amThe price has come down steadily on these very large capacitors, so what was shown is cheaper than a replacement battery with the promise of a longer lifetime. Those specific capacitors aren't rated for the operating temperature of the engine bay so their in service lifetime is an open question but if you wanted to be more cautious you could always install them inside the passenger compartment. The big benefits are usually for people in cold climates where lead batteries have short lifetimes and poor esr at extremely low temperatures.