Zhongdi products - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 12:36:52 pm
content: Hello, i have found many topics about Yihua, but can't find any about zhongdi. My local seller is selling mostly zhongdi products. How about their quality, reliability? Looking for 2in1 soldering station with hot air. Budget is about 150 bucks. I found a lot of topics about Yihua and they seem to be good enough, but still would like to hear something about zhongdi. Thanks for answering.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 12:56:18 pm
content: Crap. You'd be better with hakko knockoff. And it's zhongdi BTW. Yihua is among the worst hakko knockoffs. And I would suggest avoiding 2 in 1. Also at local sellers zhongdi is usually sold at ridiculously high prices.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 01:35:28 pm
content: Dzhongdi is a knockoff of Zhongdi

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 10:43:38 pm
content: I know everything is crap for 150 bucks. I could get only decent soldering station for this money, but i want both. I don't need professional equipment, just doing some hobby soldering. If Yihua is bad then what's better in your opinion(for same amount of money)? I have soldered with one zhongdi station and it wasn't too bad. My local seller is selling zhongdi ZD-8922 for 75 euros which isn't bad(ebay guys selling it for 100+).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 11:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mini on December 22, 2018, 10:43:38 pmThis particular one has hakko knockoff iron. So should be OK, likely better than yihua. Hot air is weird. Apparently handpiece has internal fan but then why there is a hose going to the station, not just a cable?Most of zhongdi soldering stations have solomon knockoff irons which are outdated.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 11:08:57 pm
content: Hot air is a bit weak, only 300W, 24L/min.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 11:17:57 pm
content: For about 150-160 bucks you could get Quick 957DW+ hot air and soldering station with hakko T12 style cartridges. Would be way better than yihua and zhongdi.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KSGER-Plastic-T12-Electric-Soldering-Station-Irons-Version-STM32-OLED-V3-0-9501-Soldering-Handle-T12/32882494100.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.17.418662e24u7DYE&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_319_317_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10307_10820_10821_538_537_10303_10302_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=d3e6f3ec-a365-4289-bf2c-84c3b101b094-2&algo_pvid=d3e6f3ec-a365-4289-bf2c-84c3b101b094

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 11:23:44 pm
content: Why do you want a hot air gun? They really aren't very useful for most engineers. I've always had high quality ones around me in the lab, but I've rarely used one.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 11:34:19 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 22, 2018, 11:23:44 pmYou said something really stupid. It's essential tool these days.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 11:46:26 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 22, 2018, 11:34:19 pmSo, Mr Genius, what do you need a hot air gun for, and why is it most engineers hardly ever use one?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 12:14:26 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 22, 2018, 11:46:26 pmFor everything. Need to solder QFN, you're fucked without hot air. Want to replace any SMD part with multiple pins, it's a pain without hot air. Building your own circuits, you're like a crippled person without hot air or reflow oven, unless you are making complete beginner level through hole stuff. Sort of can do many things without hot air but it will take much more time, effort and risk.QuoteThose engineers either don't do any real work on physical circuits or are outdated by 2 decades.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 12:33:47 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 12:14:26 amEverything? Really?Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 12:14:26 amI've never used a hot air gun for a QFN. They are a real pain to work with using a hot air gun.Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 12:14:26 amWhy would anyone use a hot air gun for that? There are numerous methods for swapping out most big SMD parts with a soldering iron. Dave has videos on some of them.Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 12:14:26 amMost professional prototypes are hand soldered. Reflow is more of a production process. I assume from the tone of the OP's post that they are a hobbyist. I don't think they are looking for production solutions.Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 12:14:26 amI think its you who are out of date. In the 80s most people thought hot air was essential for everything SMD, and most labs had a number of high end (mostly Hakko) hot air tools. By the early 2000s most of those tools had disappeared. Look at Hakko's catalogue. They don't even make most of these tools any more, as the market isn't there.If you are fixing things with large BGAs, you might think a hot air tool is essential. Its still a very problematic tool, though, as its so damned hard to get the package and the board heated to the same temperature and cooled correctly, so you don't leave huge expansion related stresses in the structure, leading to early failure.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 12:50:27 am
content: QuoteI use hot air way more often than soldering iron when repairing something. When I'm building something my own, I use vapor phase oven, otherwise would use hot air.QuoteThen please explain how you soldered center pad?QuoteBecause it's much easier and faster. Chip quick is expensive and difficult to use, a lot of risk of damage. Also if you just use solder wick to remove it only once, without tinning and wicking again, you will get brittle solder joints after that. I'd use something like that only there is a high risk damaging something nearby by heating.QuoteIt's way easier to just use syringe with solder paste and hot air. Not to say soldering with iron only is not really applicable to QFN, LGA and most power mosfets.QuoteMarket is way bigger than ever before. And all of those tools by traditional companies are still made.QuoteLook yourself. FR-810B, FR-811, 851, FR-702

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 12:55:00 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 12:50:27 amExactly. That's all they have left now. In the early 90s they made a long list of hot air tools.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 12:59:49 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 23, 2018, 12:55:00 amWhat list? something outdated like 852? Low end is completely dominated by Chinese companies these days.EDIT: Also about long list of hakko hot air models in the past, I suspect your memory is playing tricks with you? If it's something with a stand and preheater to solder BGA, nowadays IR stations are used more often instead.EDIT2:https://www.hakko.com/english/support/discontinued/The only hot air that got no modern replacement (sort of, read further) is HAKKO 854. And there is no wonder why. It was basically just a combo of hot air gun on a stand + small preheater like 853 for a ton of money. All of those things are available from hakko separately in several variations to be used together with a hot air station. For a ridiculous price thoughhttps://www.hakkousa.com/products/accessories/rework-fixtures.htmlMarket is certainly "shrinking", thus a ton of different stations became availablehttps://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A228013%2Cn%3A%21468240%2Cn%3A8106310011%2Cn%3A553006%2Cn%3A13837391%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A3415502011&ie=UTF8&qid=1545539326&ajr=3

author: OZ1LQB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 12:40:57 pm
content: Hi..I have soldering station and desoldering station and hot air stationfrom Zhongdi and they do what i want them to do.i even gave my weller desoldring station away.would i buy Zhongdi products again,YES for sure.Claus in denmark

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 01:38:17 pm
content: Hi OZ1LQB, what station are you using?

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 01:47:26 pm
content: Quote from: Mini on December 22, 2018, 10:43:38 pmHow do you know it has hakko knockoff iron? It uses its own tips. Not sure will hakko ones fit with it. Yihua is hakko knockoff and uses 900m series tips and hakko original heating element(thats why i think Yihua might be better). Not sure about zhongdi hot air, but there should be pump inside not fan inside hot air tool.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 02:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mini on December 23, 2018, 01:47:26 pmIt looks the same and tips look the same as well. I'm 95% sure they have the same dimensions. Even if dimensions are a bit different, it's still a knockoff because it copies design.QuoteHandle has a round space for placing a blower fan there. Just like any other cheap hot air station. If there is no fan inside, it would be really strange to use such handle.

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 03:44:04 pm
content: Could be or they use same housing for all stations. Anyways i checked Yihua and same thing, like you said all cheap clones use this. Yihua costs way more though(995d version). I checked your link from ebay not sure about that quality neither, just another clone. And yes problably hakko tips will fit it. I think i might give it a try. Do you know where i can find original hakko tips? I don't trust those chinese sellers from ebay.

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 10:03:55 pm
content: Im still in between zd-8922(75 euros) and yihua 995d+(115 euros) or 992da(115 euros), can buy 992da+(155 euros) as well. 992da has diaphragm for sure. Maybe someone still can make up my mind since this discussion haven't helped me much so far.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 10:15:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mini on December 23, 2018, 10:03:55 pmI said what would be optimal for $150-$160. It would beat in performance and quality everything you listed here. And that fume extraction 992 has is a joke. Not only it obstructs soldering, it just blows non filtered fumes out through hot air gun.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 11:04:37 pm
content: i wont tell you what to buy, but buy seperate units.combined ones are harder to repair and will cost more to replace eventually.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 11:40:10 pm
content: My Hakko 808 Clone hotair finally gave way after almost 20 year. The plastic hand piece has melted and could not hold the hot chamber tight. If you are going to use a lot, get seperate units for the iron and hotair. Thing does spoil, integrated unit shall be not as easy to replace. Thing also improve, so seperate units allow to get individual upgrade as you see fit. But space is a premium on any workbench, integrated unit has its place. Instead of getting a replacement handler. I seached Taobao for what is the selling well (wisdom of the crowd) . 858 is the best seller, but I ended up getting a 959 with a spare heating element, which cost a bit more than 858 but has auto-handler detection and also a few temperature setting memory.

author: OZ1LQB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 10:50:20 am
content: hej..Mini mine areDesoldering=ZD915Soldering=ZD981Hotair=ZD939Lthey are getting old(5-10years) but still working fineClaus in denmark

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 02:01:46 pm
content: I have many Zhongdi tools, and the all are good for the price.The hot-air ZD939L has about 10 years, the custom-labeled ZD-937 soldering station has about 8 years (I do not us it anymore) and still works , the ZD-985 desoldering station has one year and has seen a lot of abuse in recent times without problems.In the meantime my Weller soldering stations have given a lot of troubles, and spare parts cost more than a complete chinese station, so I'm going to sell them.They have been replaced by Chinese T12 clones, that are more powerful, cheaper and less bulky.I can really suggest Zhongdi, but my advice is to buy separate tools, if budget allows for it.Best regards

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 02:09:35 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 23, 2018, 10:15:48 pmYes you did. Only problem is that it's in china, but i need one maximum in 2 weeks. I wasn't planning to use that fume extractor, just rip it off.

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 02:11:54 pm
content: Are seperate tools more reliable? Everyone recommends to buy seperate tools. And what makes T12 better?

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 07:25:33 pm
content: seperates are not more reliable, but if one breaks it's cheaper to replace or easier to fix.as for T12 - do a search.but put simply, the heater & sensor are combined in the actual tip - the handle is just a handle with a socket in it - and it's 70w (right up in the tip - not in a seperate layer)

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 07:28:05 pm
content: i consider that buying (if possible) separate tools is better not for reliability reasons, but because if one of the tools fails the other are still working..Consider that a single transformer powers two tools, and if it fails you have two tools down...Other reason: I have the soldering iron always on, at my right side, and desoldering and hot air stations are on the far side of the bench, but when I need them I can move them near me.About T12 clone soldering station: they are working very well, tips are cheap, I'm very satisfied (after some experiments on wiring the kit)The forum has a lot of topics about T12 clones.But except for the heat capacity, Zhongdi tools are on the same level.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 02:13:49 am
content: H have a ZD-985 desoldering station for a couple of years now. Once you understand how it works and its limitations, it does the job quite well. I would also suggest separate tools. I have a Quick 957DW and a Hakko/Metcal soldering stations. Like ciccio says, one tool down, the others work.

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 06:43:38 pm
content: I decided to order Quick 957DW+ and KSGER T12 station despite my time frame. I hope it will be better choice than zhongdi which is half a price. Can you suggest me some decent tips for T12? Theres lots of choices... dont know which ones are decent. Maybe you can provide me some links.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 12:16:53 am
content: depends what your soldering or the style your used too - pointy, screwdriver, crosscut etc.http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t12.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 12:39:02 am
content: Quote from: Mini on December 30, 2018, 06:43:38 pmDo you mean tip style or quality? The best of course are genuine Hakko but they are expensive.

author: Mini
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 05:03:28 pm
content: I need something very small to solder QFN packages(yeah i know its soldered with hot air, but i like to do it with iron). I generally like flat ones like C1. With my question i meant quality, how are these aliexpress tips? How usable they are?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 06:13:41 pm
content: For QFN something like 1,5 - 2 mm bevel tip should work pretty well. Also blade tip can be pretty good if it has sharp edge.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 06:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: Mini on December 31, 2018, 05:03:28 pmGenerally they should be OK but YMMV, especially with smaller tips. They are made by many factories thus not all are the same.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 04:39:23 am
content: mine are all from ali and are very useable.for what your doing, look at a JL02 ond/or a KU

author: Claus1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 06:36:21 pm
content: Hi, i see several people have ZD-939L hot air. I was just thinking about to buy one before i found this thread. They are selling one here in reichelt for 80 euros. Seems very decent prize. Was just wondering is it worth to buy.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 07:22:32 pm
content: Quote from: Claus1 on January 02, 2019, 06:36:21 pmIt's not good price at all. Only 20% of max airflow 957DW+ has, weak heater and with of all of this, it does not even have smaller handle. EDIT: it's also louder and due to it caving membrane compressor airflow in not even, thus easier knocks off components. It means that you'll be tempted to set lower airflow to do the same job, making process slower.

author: Claus1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 08:46:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 02, 2019, 07:22:32 pmYes it is not very powerful, but should be enough for smaller SMT components. I have used around 300W hot air station and it seemed fine to me. You don't need higher airflow than it has, it just blows components away. I trust german shops a bit more than ordering from china since german shops have to follow EU and german safety rules.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 10:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: Claus1 on January 02, 2019, 08:46:51 pmBecause it's crap with pulsating airflow. I can use 2 times higher airflow on my 861DS than max 20 l/min of ZD-939L and it won't blow off anything except tiniest parts. You also can hold components with tweezers too until solder melts and then surface tension will hold them in place. My usual airflow is around 50-70 l/min. Or even put large nozzle, set 120l/min and solder stuff which needs a lot of heat. Also I can use higher airflow but at low temperature to solder sensitive things like connectors. And you don't need to order Quick from China, it's available in EU with warranty.

author: OZ1LQB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 01:40:17 pm
content: Claus1I have tried pro hotair stations that are better but also much more expensiveif it is "only"hobby go for it.it is cheap and i have had mine for 8 or more years and it newer failed.i got mine herehttps://www.komerci.de/shop/loettechnik/zd-939l-smd-heissluft-loetstation-regelbar-temperaturanzeige-blau-weissClaus in denmark

author: Claus1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 02:21:10 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 02, 2019, 10:34:51 pmCan you give me some links where quick is sold in europe? My google won't show anything(only US and aliexpress/ebay links).

author: Magiciaen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 02:45:26 pm
content: There's several different versions of the 861D (DA, DS, DE and DW). Just a heads up in case you're not aware.https://www.somersetsolders.com/quick-861da-hot-air-rework-station/p274#prodtabshttps://kaisertech.co.uk/quick861dw-1000w-hot-air-rework-station

author: Claus1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 02:55:56 pm
content: Quote from: Magiciaen on January 03, 2019, 02:45:26 pmI meant quick 957dw.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:33:42 pm
content: i fail to understand why a hot air station needs the power to inflate a bouncy castle!you just need to transfer the heat from the element to the component/pcb a few cm from the nozzle.and i'm getting fed up watching rossman blowing components across the table, and in one case up into his fume extractor!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 12:08:45 am
content: Quote from: stj on January 03, 2019, 11:33:42 pmDo you really use hot air? Because "a few cm" distance claim makes me doubt it. Of course it's possible to do with Quick with high airflow set, but with 20l/min without preheating you won't even melt solder unless setting heater destroying temperature. And heaters don't last in stations like ZD-939L when driven to max. Sometimes they fail after just a few minutes. And if Louis cannot do the job properly, does not mean there is no benefit having more powerful station.Also higher power means it heats up faster when you take handpiece from stand, thus you do the job faster as well.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 02:20:45 pm
content: i use hot air all the time,to be clear, i'm mostly lifting resistors and transistors - the biggest things would be TSOP flash chips - but your moving the wand around all the time with that.if your trying to pull large chips - especially bga then you seriously need a real reflow station and not a hand-tool.