What style wire is this? (Thin insulation, almost like Kynar/wire-wrap) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 02:58:48 pm
content: Hi all,I'm working on a 24VDC LED lighting project where I need some wire which is as thin as possible. Looking for 24AWG or so.In Boy Scouts, when I was younger, we made foxhole radios with some small diameter wire, shown in the attached picture. It almost looks like the wire that might be used in twisted-pair, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out what this type of wire is called. Does anyone know what they call this? Or, do you guys have any suggestions for thin insulation wire? UL Style (insert here)?Thanks,Tim

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:09:22 pm
content: Looks like wire from a telco trunk cable.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:13:13 pm
content: If you want thin insulated wire, Alpha Ecowire is good, though expensive. Very thin but very tough insulation.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:21:23 pm
content: Yep, looks a lot like phone cables to me, I think you can get Kynar wire that's a fair bit thinner than standard wire-wrap, but if nothing else, there's always enameled magnet wire. Thinnest insulation I know of.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:27:35 pm
content: Quote from: oPossum on December 17, 2018, 03:09:22 pmQuote from: DaJMasta on December 17, 2018, 03:21:23 pmThanks. If I were to buy a spool of it somewhere, what would it be called?Also, DaJMasta, we have tons of magnet wire at work, but I need to be able to identify positive, negative quickly and without errors.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:28:49 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 17, 2018, 03:13:13 pmThanks, Mike. I'm looking at that now. A tad expensive, but I may splurge for some!

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:31:53 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on December 17, 2018, 03:27:35 pm25 pair cable

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 04:00:25 pm
content: On occasion I have obtained some good quality fine wire from CAT-5e cables. The plenum rated stuff (safe for use inside air vents between floors of buildings) has a solid conductor and Teflon/PTFE insulation that is very tough and heat proof. That makes it slightly tricky to strip but easier solder without melting and making a mess.After untwisting a pair, take a length of it between two pliers and give it a pull...justuntil you feel the copper stretchslightly. It will then be as straight as a wire, literally.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 07:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on December 17, 2018, 04:00:25 pmThanks for the tip. I actually just tried that with some twisted pair I had (old, from unknown source). It is very close to what I'm looking for, but I just figured the bare wire had to be available somewhere.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 06:36:50 pm
content: Does anyone know why Kynar wire-wrap doesn't have a voltage rating? Something with the consistency/reliability of the insulation? It's used all over the place. You'd think it would have some sort of rating.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 09:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on December 18, 2018, 06:36:50 pmI think the answer is that if you're concerned about voltage rating, you probably shouldn't be using wirewrap wire...

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 09:58:52 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 18, 2018, 09:44:46 pmMaybe. Chances that 24VDC is going to break through insulation is almost exactly 0%. Just wondering why they didn't slap like a token 50V rating on it or something.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 11:29:00 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on December 18, 2018, 09:58:52 pmMaybe they just didn't want to spend the time actually testing it? The spool of small wire wrap wire I have lists UL1422/UL1423 compliance (4 AWGs on the sticker, so the insulator is one or the other), neither is voltage rated but has some other basic specifications. Closest I've seen to an actual voltage rating.How many colors do you need? Magnet wire could still be an option if you don't need many, you can get a few colors of enamel, but if you're looking for more than 3 or 4 it's going to be tough to find one supplier with a range that bothers with a rainbow of colors without a special order.

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 12:15:51 am
content: Quote from: TimNJ on December 18, 2018, 06:36:50 pmLooks like 300 V for MIL/SAE spec. wire:https://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=mil-w-81822/3MIL-W-81822A specifies an insulation resistance test at 500 V. See par. 4.6.19 in:http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-W/MIL-W-81822A_5315/But you have raised a good question. If commonly available Kynar w/w wrap wire is only good for, say, 150 V at 105 deg. C, why do vendors not state that? Hmm.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 12:59:55 am
content: You could also look at ribbon cables. There are such cables with AWG28 and even thinner wires.Heres some examples:18.5$ (0.13$ per meter) :https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/AWG28-9-G-300/AE09M-50-ND/686343Number of Conductors 9 Pitch 0.050" (1.27mm) Length 50.0' (15.24m) Wire Gauge 28 AWG Conductor Strand 7 Strands / 36 AWG462$ ( 50 x 91.4 meters = 4,572 meters of wire, $0.10 per meter ) :https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/AWG28-50-F-1-300/AE50B-300-ND/2391665Number of Conductors 50 Pitch 0.039" (1.00mm) Length 300.0' (91.44m) Wire Gauge 28 AWG Conductor Strand 7 Strands / 36 AWGShielding Unshielded Jacket Color Multiple Ribbon Thickness 0.035" (0.89mm) Ribbon Width 1.969" (50.01mm)10 different colors ... you can use a sharp blade to make a cut and the simply separate two wires from the ribbon.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 04:29:14 am
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on December 19, 2018, 12:15:51 amThanks for your research! I wonder if that makes it truly "rated for 500V". I guess as long as the insulation doesn't completely break down, it's an "insulator" at that voltage.Surely all wire manufacturers test the dielectric strength of their insulation...just to know, for their own sake, right? Even if it had a 20V rating, as the designer, I at least want to know whether or not the product is suitable for the intended application.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 04:34:17 am
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on December 18, 2018, 11:29:00 pmMaybe. I just figure...of all the test-able properties of a wire, I would not expect withstand voltage to be one that would be skipped over because "they didn't feel like it".Just need two colors! I know magnet wire comes in standard orange-y color, red, and green. Would be no problem to get, although aesthetically, I don't know how much I like it. But it is definitely a good thought! Thanks.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2018, 04:37:08 am
content: Quote from: mariush on December 19, 2018, 12:59:55 amNow that's a great idea. Great way to get lots of colors without buying 10x100feet of standard hookup wire.