Nikon lens compatibility (non-electronic) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 12:37:43 pm
content: My very old Canon SX100 had a quick death recently and was replaced with a Nikon Z30 -- a bottom of the line mirrorless body made in Thailand. Nikkor macro lenses cost far more than the body. In the early 1970's, I had a Nikon F with several lenses including its Nikkor-P 55mm f/3.5 micro lens that I used in research and rarely took off the camera. I gave everything to one of my children who lives 1000 miles away a few years ago, and she is willing to loan it back.I am wondering about compatibility of that lens with the Z body. This source suggests it wight work in manual mode and still provide exposure determination:https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55f35ai.htm(see also the link to "compatibility" therin). Of course, an FTZ adapter would be needed, and the ones without electronic connections are <$20.I am asking for actual experience adapting older, mechanical F lenses to the Z (DX) bodies. Experience with Z50 and Z30 is most relevant, but experience with any Z-body would be appreciated.1) Some blogs mention compatibility but add that there may be mechanical interference with some lenses. Is that problem with the Z30 and such an old, relatively small macro lens?2) Is electronic exposure really enabled?3) Can 1:2 or better magnification be obtained?Regards, John

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:39:24 pm
content: Metering is all TTL, right? So I don’t see why metering wouldn’t work, though you’d probably have to shoot in manual or maybe aperture priority. Are you asking whether aperture priority will work? Sounds like “no” because FTZ does not seem to have mechanical aperture indexing, only electronic communication.(I don’t have an FTZ as I switched to Fujifilm, although I still have a 3 AI / AI-S lenses which I use with an adapter.)I think the possible compatibility/interference issue is not really anything new. It sounds like the old issue of trying to mount non-AI lenses on an AI body. The ring (not sure the right word for it) extends towards the body too much, so that the “threads” on lens and body cannot engage correctly, without interference. At least, that’s what I remember. The lens you linked to is AI, so it seems like this shouldn’t be an issue?

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:25:20 pm
content: Thanks for responding. As I recall, the lens I gave my daughter is AI. I'll have to research the AI issue and thread/cam mount depth.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:37:12 pm
content: In short (I could elaborate on Nikkor compatibility longer, but actually suffer from a broken wrist)The old AI mount issue was caused by the aperture ring close to the body where the more modern camera bodies had their coupling lever, therefore pressing and damaging it.When adapting an old manual lens to a mirrorless body (regardless of manufacturer), you do that via a mechanical adaptor, so no problem.Quality of the setup of course relies to a significant part of the precision the adaptor is manifactured.Mechanical interference with lenses can stem from attachments, like the tripod hook for longer 70-200mm lenses, that would collide with the FTZ adapter, as I might recall, or similar obstacles. Also the AI "rabbit ears" that allowed coupling to earlier camery bodies could in some cases scratch the lower range bodies of the F-mount DSLR at the posithion of the flash housing.(Scratches myself a D5000 with that)Good news here, that you could unscrew those because they are not needed on a digital body except for nostalgic purposes.Metering: Here it gets tricky: An AI lens (or AI converted by exchanging or modifying the aperture ring) transmits the f/stop position to the body via a mechanical lever.Due to marketing decisions, the entry-Level F-mount cameras (D3xxx, D5xxx, and older D50/D60 etc) did not receive that. Those bodies which did receive that, were usually able to do measuring in "A" mode, sometimes restricted by firmware to some simple metering modes. (Matrix metering etc. did also require the distance being transmitted from the lens), which only was avaliable ffrom the AF-D lens and later, the D stands for disctance)I have no hands-on experience on the Z platform, as my Zfc still is at the retailer ;-)But I adapted lots of glass to my D7100. In a nutshell, metering is a thing of the firmware. It needs to get the f/stop position somehow and its value (could be entered in the F-Mount bodies) and the metering in "A" mode was possible.Therefore it boild down to two things:a) does the mechanical adapter you use transmits the f/stop position to the body?b) Is the firmware willing to take it into account and allow measuring in the "A" mode? (here the manufacturer could have made some dedisiions to omit such functions in the firmware)From what I know (and did not see on photos), the Nikon FTZ gen1 does not have the AI lever to transmit Aperture positions to the Nikon Z body.In this case, it boils down to using the old F-mount lens in Manual mode, which is also in most cases the preferred mode for macro shots.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:49:56 pm
content: As I understand it, the adapter I am considering ($14) takes virtually any Nikon F lens, including AI and non-AI, and adapts them physically to the Z body, including Z30 and Z50. There are no electrical connections. For the macro stuff I might do, it will be tripod mounted and manual doesn't bother me.As for whether the Z30 " allow measuring in the "A" mode?" I don't know. The manual is very small print, and I need to study it more. The used manual Nikon F lenses are really quite affordable on eBay. It may not be even worth bothering my daughter to send my old one.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:51:58 pm
content: addendum: The compatibility of the FTZ gen1 adapter to some Z bodies was critical due to the big bulge at the bottom, which could hit some keys on some bodies (Z9), therefore the FTZ II is designed differently.Just looked at the manual at the manufacturers site: Seems that the FTZ II supports AI metering in A mode, and I see some coupling knob on some photos of it.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:54:25 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on January 07, 2023, 09:49:56 pmIf you use a "mechanical-only" adaptor, it can only allow M mode, because of no electronic communication to the camera. So in this case A mode never will be possible because of the lack of information of the aperture settings of the lens.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 10:06:48 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on January 07, 2023, 09:51:58 pmIt does not appear that either FTZ or FTZ II supports communication of aperture information from AI or AI-s lenses. Nor can it control the aperture.Basically, it seems if you have manual focus AI or AI-s lenses, FTZ adapters generally do not provide any benefit over cheap mechanical adapter.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 10:14:25 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on January 07, 2023, 10:06:48 pmI just looked of the manual of the FTZ II at Nikon, and AI metering in A mode was described there in the downloadable manual.Aperture control is a different kind of story- for this, you need a) Ai-S lenses or later, and some mechanical enhancements to the aperture control system.And this would then be the "S" or "P" modes of shooting.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:04:55 pm
content: I do not plan to use the Nikon FTZ adapter at about $200, but rather the mechanical-only adapters from secondary suppliers sold as "FTZ" that are <$20 and simply mount the lens on the body. To repeat, there will be no electronic connection.My experience with macro* is that I would rather do focusing manually always rather then automatically. Depth of field/aperture is again manual. For exposure (ISO), it would be nice to have the camera's help, but that is not critical.Thus, I am mainly worried about the mechanical fit. I would hate to get a lens stuck on my camera. My main goal is to get decent photos of circuits to post here.*That research was using dark field to visualize very faint immunoprecipitate lines in agarose gels. I wouldn't trust even a modern camera to do that. It was about a year or so's work and many hundreds of gels using B&W film. I read the negatives.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:32:54 pm
content: In your case, thats simple: No help from the camera with standard mechanical adapters, which support open-aperture focussing and then at exposure time stop down to the selected f/stop.I don't know about the capabilities of the Z30, but for reference and for maybe users of different cameras with a similar problem: With measuring, there is the possibility to use the so called "working aperture", which means that you measure exposure at the aperture dialed in. This requires the lens/adapter combo to NOT open the aperture while focussing to the widest püosition (smallest number), but to stay fixed during that process. Of course, focusing is not that simple in this case, and might require some surgery on the adapter and the lever that operatest the aperture blades contactor at the side of the adapter.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 12:07:10 am
content: That makes me feel better. Now, I can use a good optical lens, which I rarely removed from my camera even after the research was done, for little more than the cost of a McDonalds meal. When I saw the statement about mechanical interference, I was worried.Regards, John

author: bw2341
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 06:43:34 pm
content: There is a risk of mechanical interference from older pre-AI lenses. If you bought your 55mm Micro at the same time as your Nikon F, it does have a risk of damaging more recent cameras and adapters.The link to Ken Rockwell shows images of the AI version of the 55mm Micro. Here are other Ken Rockwell links that may be helpfulhttps://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/compatibility-lens.htmhttps://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/mirrorless/lenses/ftz.htmTo make the AI system, Nikon relieved the edge of the aperture ring and added a ridge to it. The lens ridge is sensed by a pin on a ring on the camera body. However, the pre-AI lenses will physically interfere with and damage the sense pin and ring on the camera.To avoid this, the AI sense ring on early AI cameras had a tiny mechanism to release the pin and fold it outwards safely out of the way. Unfortunately, this feature was removed on many later cameras. These cameras have a risk of damage.If your adapter is truly mechanical-only, it should be designed with enough relief so that a non-AI lens will not interfere. Check carefully as you install it for the first time.