#253 - KiCAD Install & Schematic - First Impressions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 07:44:49 am
content: Great video, it's nice to know I'm not using some completely obscure and ugly CAD software and open source can produce a decent tool.What's really worth mentioning is that Dave didn't found yet the biggest and ugliest pain in the ass of KiCAD. There are no strong ties between schematic symbols and footprints. You have two separate sets of libraries for symbols and footprints and one of the tools, CvPcb exists solely for the purpose of matching a symbol to a proper footprint. So you generate a netlist, load it in CvPcb and you have list of your parts and a list of ALL footprints. There is some filtering there, but only for a few parts and you can manually enter a footprint name in Eeschema if you remember its name. Then you select footprints for each and every part. Good thing there's at least a footprint preview available. I hope this will change one day, it can really kill most of the enthusiasm for a new project.As for parts repository, there'shttp://www.kicadlib.org/(doesn't carry much libs and probably wasn't updated for a long time), you can also find a buggy converter from Eagle (you have to know how to edit converted part file to make it work, but I haven't used this much), but most of the time you just draw your symbols and footprints, there are also some online tools for doing this semi-automatically.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 12:43:10 pm
content: I knew what was coming when Dave opened the parts browserHow to apply the selected part to the schematic. It think everyone first using it had to search for that icon. Totally non-intuitive. There are a couple of these kinks in KiCad. Starting the deign rule check was another Dave hit. On the positive side, it was much worse in earlier versions, and they made some nice progress getting their GUI issues sorted out.I know, tutorials are for wimps, but there is a step-by-step tutorial out there, maybe even included in the installation, that guides one through the whole process for a very simple PCB. It includes the mentioned, dreaded CvPcb usagehttp://kicadlib.org/Fichiers/KiCad_Tutorial.pdfRegarding the slow parts placement. Could that have been some interference of the screen recorder with the way KiCad draws?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 12:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 05, 2012, 12:43:10 pmAccording to someone on Twitter, nope, it's the same even on very high end machines.Dave.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 01:17:03 pm
content: Hmm, I just tried it on a five or six year old, low-spec laptop with a slow ATI Radeon Xpress 200M series graphics chip and Windows XP. Movement flickers, but is not lagging behind the cursor and doesn't slow down cursor and part movement.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 01:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 05, 2012, 12:48:11 pmIt is not slow to place parts as if you move the cursor straight to where you want the part and click, the part is pasted immediately where you clicked. If you want to wait for the image of a complex part to catch up with the cursor, then that is sluggish. It is one of those things that someone could spend a month speeding it up, but I imagine it is well down the list of priorities right now. Once you are used to the way it works, it does not slow you down much.As far as panning, that is just one of those things where the Kicad programmers know better then the rest of us.You can zoom out with the mouse wheel, move the cursor to the new location you want and zoom in. They did a good job making the zoom fast.Alternatively Ctl + mouse wheel pans horizontally. Shift + mouse wheel pans vertically.I suppose they didn't want to use any method for panning that involves a mouse click. That way, moving around the screen never interferes with any current task.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 06:42:10 pm
content: See my rant here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/open-source-kicad-geda/seriously-irritated-with-the-library-editor!/I use it because I have no choice. As soon as I can afford a proper application, I will not look back. I hope they can get the bugs, issues and interface glitches worked out, but I'm not going to hang around and wait.Quote from: amspire on March 05, 2012, 01:54:20 pmThis is an issue with a great many graphics applications these days. Prior to OS X, all graphics applications on the Mac had a grabber hand tool for panning. It was incredibly useful. Most programs had a way to invoke it while using another tool, typically holding down space. Sadly, this feature really never made its way over to Windows. I've seen it on rare occasions, but it seems most developers think scroll bars are all you need.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 06:53:55 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on March 05, 2012, 06:42:10 pmReminds me sooooo much about other integrated open source (free) apps I've used (i.e. MediaPortal)......could be really, really good but fact is it isn't and probably not ever. Too many developers pulling in different directions adding stuff that isn't important, and missing oportunities for fixing basic stuff.However, I'm sure it'll continue to have it's place as a basic entry level FREE app.Ian.[not really an open source fan]

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 07:01:45 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 05, 2012, 06:53:55 pmI am an Open Source fan. I refuse to accept the thought that since it is free, I shouldn't have any expectations. I expect an application to do what it is designed to do and in a manor that mirrors the expected standards of similar applications. If the application is going to deviate from a standard practice, it should be well implemented, have a good explanation as to why it isn't conforming to the expected standard and be properly documented.Inkscape and OpenOffice are two examples of well done Open Source applications. They work as expected. They have active development communities with agreed upon goals. Issues are quickly fixed.

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 07:18:56 pm
content: Not having an idea about general direction is the problem of many free software projects, unfortunately KiCAD is one of those. What makes a difference between those and commercial apps is that often there are so many tiny problems, inconsistencies and stupidities that add up it annoys people. But this particular isn't the worst, I belive KiCAD can get better in really short time, so I'm going to look into the source code and start tweaking as soon as I find some free time.There are two main stupidities I'd really want to change, symbol to footprint matching and no real ability to do a single project consisting of multiple PCBs, but this isn't going to be an easy fix. I also belive drawing can be speeded up unless there's a really ugly code hidden there since a long time and that's why noone touched it before.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 08:35:44 pm
content: Quote from: amspire on March 05, 2012, 01:54:20 pmThe VBlog prompted me to download and look at KiCAD for the first time. The 'panning' sucks so bad I can't help thinking it is some platform dependant issue.The mouse wheel zoom in moving the current cursor location to the window center would be fine except (for me on Win XP in a virtual machine) it doesn't reposition the windows cursor to the center of the window so a second increment of the mouse wheel zooms a different location to the center and half a turn of the mouse wheel usually zooms the PCB completely off the screen (depending how close to the center of the window the location you were trying to zoom in on was in the first place).

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 10:34:01 pm
content: For anyone who wants to get involved with making improvements here is the developers websitehttps://launchpad.net/kicadJoin the mailing list to find out what the developers are doing.There is a user group herehttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-users/I hope Dave has a go at doing a full project from start to finished PCB.David.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2012, 10:38:32 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on March 05, 2012, 08:35:44 pmThat is odd. It does reposition the cursor in the center of the screen on normal Windows or Linux PC's, so I have no idea why the mouse does not recenter in a Virtual PC. Sounds like a bug in the virtual PC emulation.Richard.

author: lameiro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 01:22:16 am
content: Hi there.I am just happy that Dave made a video on KiCAD.I am seeing a lot of fuss about differences between professional and KiCAD software. Well for one, When people says I will wait until the bugs are fixed, then I will use it. Fair enough, now I ask you, did you even tried to report the bugs? or did you even try to go to mailing list. Remeber, that programmers aren't making it for work, They take they time from families, friends and do that because they like it and share it with other. So please stop being a snob and being so F.... shity about a Free in all senses software. I wonder if you would have an answer from an altimu programmer on a mailing list....Now About KiCAD...The drawing issue doesnt appear to much on my linux box, maybe is windows related don't know.On this forum, there is a thread I started to add resources for Kicad, like modules, libraries, and 3d modules.@Dave et all panning can be made by pressing shift+scroll whell (up and down) and ctrl+scroll whell (left to right).And yes I do like to have separated applications. It is more easy to maintain and you can easily make 3 or 4 different boards from the same schematic.Also you can plot everything to postscript files, that is the core of a PDF file without the mess you don't need on the format. Any pdf reader should read a .ps file, if not just rename the extension.For the price, you don't get better.@MarkS , why you dont save the money you will spend on a "semi-professional" tool and instead pay someone to fix the bugs and then share them back??? That would be better than only pointing defects and not try to help at all....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 01:52:54 am
content: I've mentioned it before, but I'm seriously looking for a replacement PCB CAD tool for Altium for future use on the blog, my own projects, and PCB tutorials etc.I know KiCAD is absolutely no match for the likes of Altium, but it's open source, it's free, it's multi-platform, and it will grow if people get involved and support it.I feel sorry that Eagle became the defacto OSHW tool just because a few early OSHW advocates happened to use the free version, that could have just as easily been KiCAD.And I'm not that keen to advocate yet another commercial package, even it does have a free version available, like Eagle and DIPtrace et.al because, well, they are commercial packages just like Altium.There is something compelling about supporting an open source tool, and I know it's going to have issues, but unless it's got some absolute show-stoppers, then I think I'll pursue KiCAD and support it because it just makes sense to.I'm not sure how much time the programmers spend on KiCAD, it's most likely just an after hours thing for them, but it would be great to see some more community involvement and perhaps even some sort of community funding to help the tool grow.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 03:29:38 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 06, 2012, 02:16:50 amHaven't decided finally yet, but it seems like the most viable option. KiCAD could have a show-stopper I don't like, I've only used it for 2 hours so far!QuoteThe lack of library components is a non-issue IMO. EVen the pro packages don't satisfy all needs, it's just not possible. Not worth worrying about.Lack of direction could be a problem, like if a key developer wants to spend all their time on a silly autorouter or something instead of the "boring" core functionality and bugsQuote

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 04:07:30 am
content: Whatever is mentioned in an EEVBlog episode is guaranteed to get attention from hobbyists. Even if you don't choose it as Altium replacement those videos will make it more popular and get more developer attention. And programmers like to work closely with experts in the topic even if they know something about the topic themselves, so Dave can become an unofficial expert.I think the future of KiCAD looks more interesting than it ever looked before now.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 04:19:40 am
content: The KiCad team is pretty small, but they are quite active. There are commits just about every day.There has been a lot happening recently, but it may not be that obvious.They did have some real communication and policy issues between team members, and it seems they have resolved that.They are doing some really major work under the hood. KiCad has had a maximum resolution of 0.1 mil. They have been increasing that to 1nM. It has been implemented, but I think at the moment it is still a switch to go into nanometer mode. This is a really fundamental change, and I think it will take a lot of testing and bug fixing to get the new resolution up to the reliability of the old resolution. Arcs have gone from 0.1 deg resolution to using Double floating point numbers.There have been file format changes as the old format just wasn't powerful enough.I think it is fair to say that things are still looking good for KiCad.Also the latest stable build is from over 3 months ago, and there have been hundreds of changes and bug fixes since. If anyone want to run the latest daily build, take a look in the Kicad/gEDA forum here. Getting the latest daily build is not too hard. I am current running build 3447 from the 1st March 2012. Keep in mind that 3447 is a testing build and not a stable build.

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 07:16:57 am
content: I tried KiCad a couple of weeks ago and found the eeschema to be ok. It lost me when I got to the PCB - very non-intuitive to link schematic and PCB, finding the right footprint is VERY painful even compared to Eagle, and the PCB UI had me screaming in frustration after about 15 seconds (i.e. trying to move or select a component was a nightmare). I'm all for supporting FOSS software, but not at the expense of usability.Its kind of a strange catch-22 I suppose as many OS projects die out because of lack of interest, and the stronger projects are good because they probably had a lot of users and contributors when the software was not so good.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 07:28:55 am
content: KiCad is not bad. Created a few project with it. It certainly has enough features to design a serious board, but yeah, it has some fundamental UI issues.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 07:57:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2012, 03:29:38 amDave, How about a user vote on what package you should adopt.Ian.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 08:07:17 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 06, 2012, 07:57:41 amMy tool choice isn't a democracy, it's dictatorship at the whim of a madmanDave.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 09:24:00 am
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 06, 2012, 07:57:41 amOnly if we can vote on your new wife.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 10:26:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2012, 08:07:17 amDang!.......I was hoping to hack the vote so that Wintek's SmARTWORK for DOS would win........Ian.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 10:30:05 am
content: havent had a chance to see part 2 yet, but right clicking instead of double clicking is the trick to kicad when you have multiple items around,

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 01:11:25 pm
content: I did download and install KiCad several months ago but the stopper for me was the "File not found" error box when first starting!Thanks Dave for showing me how to get past that!

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 02:52:59 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on March 06, 2012, 10:26:13 amI haven't seen that in decades. Forgot what it was called. Searched the web and you can still buy it $495 - lol.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 05:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2012, 08:07:17 amSure. It seems to me its a matter of just what you are trying to do. As a design engineer in a production environment or even working on side projects, you would tend to be a lot more productive using Altium for the foreseeable future. It may ultimately be the superior package, though from the video you did on the schematic editor of KiCAD, it seemed to hold its own quite well.On the other hand, as the host of a video blog and website that is largely (mostly?) oriented towards students, amateurs and hobbyists, advanced and otherwise, it would be hard to justify spending a lot of time teaching us about a CAD package that most cannot justify purchasing. Perhaps what the military calls a high-low mix is in order, focusing on Altium and KiCAD and deprecating everything else. Or, you can at least look into going with KiCAD for everything, assuming KiCAD doesn't end up being crap in your eyes.I don't know, but I can tell you as a viewer, I can see myself spending a lot of hours watching KiCAD-related stuff and cant justify anything like that investment of time in Altium videos. Also, I can see myself buying instructional materials for KiCAD, so it may be a better fit for your business model overall going forward.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 05:59:45 pm
content: I just saw the second part. #254The struggle to find the layer selection/deselection was typical for KiCad. Dave was hovering right over the checkboxes with the mouse, but was still desperately looking out for a way to do it. Why? Because the stupid checkboxes aren't where one would expect them. They are behind the items, while every GUI design guideline in the world requires to place them in front. And that is where users expect them to be, in front of an item. And of course they lack any visual clue what they are for. Just having a "Visual" label in the tab pane is not enough. That is supposed to describe the purpose of the tab pane, not the checkboxes on the pane.I don't know why the KiCad programmers think the wrong way is better. I don't know why they place buttons all over the place in popup windows, and don't give them meaningful labels like "Create". I don't know why they mix buttons for supplementary functions right with the button for the main function.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 09:15:09 pm
content: Good videos!Although I've been using KICAD for a couple of years now, I liked watching them. I expected to hear / see a lot more cursing. Maybe that is still to come ( panelization)If you should get to the cam files, try 'gerbv' as well. The gerber viewer that comes with KiCAD isn't useless, but at least visual quality of gerbv is much better (in HQ mode). gEDA relies on gerbv.http://sourceforge.net/projects/gerbv/files/gerbv/gerbv-2.6.0/There's even an installer for the unmentionable OS.There you'll finally see solder mask clearance, which is set as a global option in pcbnew (or per pad).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 09:36:27 pm
content: Quote from: bullet308 on March 06, 2012, 05:51:47 pmYes, I've been thinking about that, and therein lies the problem. Unless a package is incredibly easy to use, the learning curve is going to be steep, and then may not do stuff easily like proper panelisation I need for production boards.So I may actually end up having to use one package for simple stuff, and to promote to people doing simple one-off boards, and a more advanced package (DIPtrace, Eagle?) for more advanced stuff, or even sticking with what I know in Altium as you say - just to "get the job done" for projects.Will KiCAD even handle panelisation easily? I'm thinking maybe not, and that might be a show-stopper for me personally.QuoteAny "instructional" type videos I do will not be how to use a particular package, but be as tool-agnostic as possible, and focus on the PCB layout in general.But there is ultimately only so much you can do there.BTW, I'm seriously considering making that sort of thing paid content stuff, and not part of the regular blog.Dave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 09:47:42 pm
content: @Dave.Write down your remarks, ideas e.t.c. You or anyone could open feature requests, bugs reports e.t.c. on KiCad.Alexander.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 10:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2012, 09:36:27 pmPart of me would hate to see that of course (the part of me that would have to pay :-) , but another part knows you have to pay the bills and hopes thatyou can thrive as opposed to survive doing this. I would think going multi-tiered to some extent is inevitable given what you are trying to do here. Perhaps even tri-tiered (Free-Amateur/Hobbiest-Pro). All of that in my mind dovetails in nicely with the whole open source, free base product and value-added pay-for-service model, which has always made a great deal of sense to me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 10:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: bullet308 on March 06, 2012, 10:10:06 pmYes, unfortunately(?) this is my full time job and I do have to figure out how to make a living from it. The advertising won't last forever, I know that.And something like this is amassiveamount of work, and it would be silly to invest all that time on such a potentially valuable product and then just give it all away. Not to mention people whodon'twant a PCB design tutorial series get plastered with 30 episodes of that on the blog for 6 months straight.I'm also contemplating writing a PCB design book, and would I spend a year of my life on that and then just give it away?, likely not.Dave.

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2012, 10:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2012, 09:36:27 pmI use a 3rd party panelizer (fab3000). It works well, but Its not free software, and I am unaware of one.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 05:28:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2012, 09:36:27 pmOther people have done it. You can open a new PCBnew load your board and position it, load another board with the "File - Append Board" command and position it, etc.Here are 4 copies of the PIC Programmer demo board:Richard.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 06:36:36 am
content: havent look at both diptrace and kicad vidz due to our local enigmatic condition, i wish i could, soon. but imho, software is not a diode you can play 2 hours random with it to judge it. i'm expecting a more professional way of commentary or comparison from someone who basically know all the functions and read the manual. you know... different people, different programmers, different users or even different bosses got different paradigm about anything (one eg is pan and zoom issue, my paradigm is mousewheel for zoom in-out, click-drag-release for pan). but you have your way daveas usual, YMMV.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 06:53:35 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 07, 2012, 06:36:36 amTotally agree with you on this Mech, but at this particular case, I also do love the instant and the Dave's unique non-scripted review, its sort of the other way of looking a product thru Dave's eyes, and for certain situations, I trust his judgement especially on 1st impression, this it self brings value to us as certain audiences which like myself, again, in this situation don't need or want to go thru lengthy review/benchmark comparison among products.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 07:28:04 am
content: Quote from: amspire on March 07, 2012, 05:28:16 amAh, that will work nicely, thanks.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 07:30:52 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 07, 2012, 06:53:35 amAnd that's all it is, literally a first impression, without any video editing, thinking, checking, or retakes.Yep, I'm sure countless people will think it's some sort of "review"Dave.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 07:51:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 07, 2012, 07:30:52 amYeah, the original concept of this blog aka "the unique non-scripted review" might take while for an acceptance among your audiences even among old timer like Mech does.Personally I think this kinda preview makes your blog unique and prolly one of your strong selling point, so be patience waiting this to be fruitful someday.Just don't screw this kind of series like doing it when you're on really bad mood or heavily booz'd ..... j/k.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 09:28:53 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 07, 2012, 06:36:36 amI would love to do a full review and comparison video, but that is amassiveamount of work. So rather than give people nothing at all until I can do that, I thought I'd record my random first impressions and put up some content, and that's exactly what it is.Dave.

author: electrode
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 09:34:41 am
content: I liked Dave's style for these videos. I don't want to see it being easier than it is. If you have to type crap just to do basic things, I'd rather see Dave fail at it and call the program out for bad UI conventions.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2012, 03:09:52 pm
content: as i said, i havent watch it. just basing on experience/reading here and there (the community). for those of you who didnt know, dave was accused for being a PIC "funboy" sometime ago, just to let you know how serious this kind of "public announcement" is. me otoh, have no objection. i know dave's style is lovely, also expecting that, always isps: gone through quick read the old kicad help file, got some nice picture in it, but as always me lazy reading all, diptrace is quick enough for dumbass like me to learn by the video tutorial. and someone asked somewhere... no, we dont have to register anything to install/run the eval diptrace. and pray when this kicad is old and good enough, it will stay free open source, looking forward to it. sorry OT.

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2012, 03:11:49 am
content: Ha ha .. watched the vids and in some places I was smiling... nothing bad !! I was just remembering that I did the exact same ting when I started with kicadYeah I did not read the tutorial/manual alsoWhen I started I went through the same choice Eagle .. darn it limits the board ..piece of #$%@$ !!! .. then what else ? Altium .. whaatt?!! 1000$ buks !! and I use Linux ... other eh whatever I ended up using kicad.Now after years of hobby use I even use it for some real work ... 2 years ago Kicad was worst but I can say the package has improved quite a bit since I started using it and sincerely once you get used to it is not that bad .. like Dave says "I like it !!". I think the reason for which Eagle has ended up as the tool of choice was that few years ago Kicad was not as good and Egle was the only other free decent thing around, but sincerely now except the not so great components library (which BTW any serious designer builds his own in time) Kicad beats Eagle hands down. Even with the sometimes poor UI design I find it better than Eagle.Dave .. I would love to see you going the Kicad way .. it would validate my insanity. Then I can beat the guy that told me that I am insane because I use Kicad and not Eagle .. he he

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 04:14:19 am
content: I enjoyed this demo, Dave. Thanks.My 2 cents is that I feel like the KiCAD designers are all native OrCAD users....a lot of features felt OrCAD-ish (OrC-ish)...but I have not used any other platforms outside eagle and orcad.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 08:43:09 am
content: The current interface is already the improved interface. When I first looked at KiCad it was simply chaos. The GUI apparently done by someone with very little experience in doing graphical user interfaces, and, this is maybe the key, without a knack for it.They really made progress with the GUI, but it is still that I somehow think it is done without "love". I really hate how they convolute even simple things like placing some text. I hate how they still stick with that old CAD model "select tool -> apply tool to objects", instead of the now more common "select object(s) -> apply function to object(s)" model.

author: electrode
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 08:46:57 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 10, 2012, 08:43:09 amThis.

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 09:02:44 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 10, 2012, 08:43:09 amI'm almost absolutely sure that was the case here. Last year I suddenly had to write an app with complex GUI focused on manipulating objects in drawing area. It worked exactly the same like KiCAD's still works in many aspects. It made me laugh when I first realized this.I have to look into the code, I may be able to do some good things with this experience.

author: pachuma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 12:34:12 pm
content: Unfortunately for Mac users, the only way forward is to still stick to Eagle.KiCAD is so unreliable on a Mac that it's totally useless. I've been downloading versions every so often to see if there is any luck, but ... nah' there is no way to use it. You can play for a while with it but, it crashes every so often (very frustrating).

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 09:58:22 pm
content: You know, there's always VirtualBox. It's certainly not as ideal as a native Mc-OS version, but there's really no need to feel compelled to use the limited eagle version at all. Unless you choose to do so.I know that because 'everybody else' in certain circles seems to be using eagle the want to do the same is strong, but unless you choose to fork out money at some point that is a dead end.

author: pachuma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 10:49:49 pm
content: With virtualbox it is so s-l-o-w, at least on my machine it is not practical at all.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 01:18:18 am
content: Hmmm. Maybe you need more RAM, dual core and at least 2GHz.

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 03:15:51 am
content: I've just installed KiCAD on WinXP and it's actually much faster than on Win7 host here. What are your host and guest machines and have installed hardware acceleration in your virtual machine?

author: pachuma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 09:36:00 am
content: The host is an iMac running Lion the guest is Linux, Ubuntu distro.I will wait for coming KiCAD updates for the next trial.

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 11:33:26 am
content: Have you installed guest additions?

author: pachuma
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 11:37:43 am
content: Quote from: McMonster on March 11, 2012, 11:33:26 amYes, the very thin down version of Ubuntu.

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2013, 06:26:07 pm
content: A small update for those interested, new version of kicad (BZR4003) was released just a few days ago. Since Dave's videos they did a few releases and a lot of small improvements to the user interface and it now includes an option to turn on middle mouse button panning among the other things. Libraries have been extended and improved as well. Annoying component-footprint matching functionality still there, but at least they started adding defaults and better footprint selection filters.Link to the latest stable Windows build.