Question: please recommend good, cheap laser b&w printer for PCB toner transfer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: nzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 08:17:28 am
content: I'm slowly working up to making short-run PCBs for my own projects.I've heard some printers are better than others; that toner cartridges are really expensive; that some newer laser printers use a higher temperature and that this takes them out of the DIY iron-on region.Any pointers on affordable brands etc welcome and much appreciated!

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 09:27:44 am
content: I have experimented with toner transfer and a few different printers.I had the best results with an old OKI Okipage 4N and original toner, preliminary test showed very good transfer using a simple iron. Then I killed the printer, I tried a new sheet of paper but it was to thin, it stuck to the drum and ruined the drum and the toner distribution thingy. New thingy + drum: 300 EUR. I don't think so.Further tests with a HP LaserJet 4M and Verbatim toner were negative, I couldn't get the toner to transfer evenly.The last one I tried was some Brother printer with original toner, that didn't work either.Basically I have given up on toner transfer, if it worked reliably it would be a great way to make home etched PCB's, but for my taste there are just to many unknowns involved in the process.

author: buxtronix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 12:22:57 pm
content: Last night I gave a talk and a demo of toner transfer to my local ham radio club (http://www.vk2bv.org).These are the slides (starts with a history) :https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0Aayv95RHxc7ZZGRuajc2cWNfN2Z6MjY1aGN3&hl=en_USIt lists what to do and what not to do. Follow that and you should not go wrong.I have an old Laserjet 4M (found on the road during a council cleanup) and bought a new tonercartridge. Works very well for me, but the biggest variable is the paper. Best results I see is withCelcast IJ84. Do NOT use plain paper. It leaves fibres in the toner which (due to capillary action)causes etchant to wick down to the underlying copper.I can reliably do boards down to 12 thou with this technique.Good luck

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 01:12:49 pm
content: I use a Kyocera FS-1000 with PulsarProFX and it works very well. The printer was a give-away.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 01:50:39 pm
content: I use a brother HL-2170W - a really nice wireless LAN, LAN & USB printer that cost about A$100. Prints great. The cartridges (rated at about 3000 pages) are really easy to refill, and the replacement toner cost something like $10 from Hong Kong so it costs nothing to run. The large plastic plug in the cartridge get damaged at the edges when you remove it to refill. You can still reuse them, but I bought a few special removable plugs for a few dollars at the same time I bought the toner.It works, but I have since found out that the Brother toner melts around 187 deg C (370F) while HP and Lexmark toner melts around 170C to 180C (338F - 356F).So I guess I have to work harder to make the toner transfer well. I usually bake the board in the oven before applying the printed tracks and start ironing while the board is still hot. I have had some failures which means cleaning up the board and trying again.Really getting the board clean helps.Richard.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 05:25:57 pm
content: Dear Enzo:--I have watched a lot of PCB making video, I consider the ones in the link posted below to be the best. You do not need to buy a printer and you could probably substitute a clothes iron for the laminating machine. Let us know what you think of the videos.http://www.getlofi.com/?p=1997"Marconi invented the radio but he had to wait years and years till anything decent was on." Johnny CarsonBest RegardsClear Ether

author: nzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2011, 07:38:04 pm
content: Huge thanks to all of you for your inspiring replies and links! They'll keep me busy for a while

author: nzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2011, 02:34:10 am
content: Just has a note back from Fuji Xerox (Australia) that the toner melting point for theirP205b DocuPrintLaser printer is 55°C or 131°F. Does that sound unusually low to you? If itisthat temperature, it would work well with a clothes iron, but there may be other factors such as the toner chemistry.

author: nzo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2011, 08:02:05 am
content: ToSgtRock: Those videos in your link were excellent and well worth watching. Thanks for those!

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2011, 03:45:02 pm
content: This seems to be a useful page about how to calibrate your iron.http://www.pulsarprofx.com/pcbfx/main_site/pages/tech_support/instructions/3_iron_calibration.htmlIt looks like you need to get it as hot as possible, but just below the point that the toner actually melts. If the toner melts, then the toner will spread which is what you don't want.And they say Brother toner is different - epoxy based or something. So much for my printer.Richard.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2011, 04:18:12 pm
content: My old Canon LBP 660 worked fine. I've not tested my newer Brother HL-5240.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2011, 04:21:09 am
content: I'm using a Brother HL2140 with reasonable results.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2011, 05:20:53 am
content: You definitely need a printer that can do a nice solid black.Some printers do a black which is all kinda patchy and you can see paper through the toner. Those kind never work well for making PCB's