best breadboard - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: drakke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 09:13:50 am
content: I have several power supplies, an oscilloscope, a function generator. I would like a really good breadboard - one that does not require a lot of fiddling to make positive connections but I don't need a fully featured trainer.I saw the Global Specialties breadboards. Are these the best breadboards available?Thanks.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 10:12:57 am
content: 3M breadboards are generally reckoned to be the very best, but expensive.Global Specialties are a good brand, though.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 10:42:42 am
content: Oh yeah the 3M's connections are so tight you'll sometimes accidentally mangle the leads of whatever you're pushing in.

author: kerrsmith
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 10:43:57 am
content: I have quite a lot of the following Tayda ones:http://www.taydaelectronics.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=breadboardThey have several different sizes and are really good value, I have not had an issue with them and use them all the time.I quite like the smaller ones as I often build up small circuits which I want to keep for later work on - I can just put them to the side and start my new build on another empty board which saves having to work around what is already in place. Having lots of small ones also means I can try out different versions of a circuit without having to keep taking it apart to make space.

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 11:45:29 am
content: Phosphor bronze contacts with nickel flush. This is the proper material. Search for these types that are profiled to center align the pin (pin is kept at the center of a contact and does not escape to the corner of a contact field)As for arrangement - most I have seen have 5-2-5 rows (5 holes + 2 voids + 5 holes ) plus power bus/es on each side. The problem is that with some breadboards these power buses are not aligned with 5-2-5 rows but skewed by 1/2 of a hole. PITA.Anyway, the above arrangement has the disadvantage that a single breadboard is unusable with PDIP because after you stick a PDIP in the middle, you have to transfer every pin with a jumper to the free space adjacent to PDIP to make any reasonable circuitry. To overcome this - there are some breadboards with power buses that can be disconnected from 5-2-5 part. If properly designed, you can lock these 5-2-5 modules side by side to create 5-2-5-2-5-2-5 board where the 300 mils PDIP fits even at the interconnection. Very handy

author: Cervisia
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 08:17:01 pm
content: QuoteWisher makesbreadboards that are arranged like this.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 01:36:58 am
content: I really like the Wisher boards; Jameco sells many of them as their valuepro line - see the datasheet to see if it is a wisher board.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 12:41:42 pm
content: Only ones that are any good are Wisher IMHO. I ended up there after some problems with a 3M one refusing to let go and finding some serious quality control problems with Global Specialities ones.I've got a couple of WBU-502's. The layout is much better for discretes which is about the only thing I bother prototyping on one. They do normal ones as well. Also if you're using lots of ICs, make sure you get one with square holes. The ones I have are round holed which don't like letting ICs go.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 01:09:13 pm
content: Whenever I'm asked for help by someone that has built a circuit on a solderless breadboard, I spend more time debugging the breadboard than their circuit. Damn things are a waste of my little remaining life.My recommendation for quick-and-dirty experiments are any of "manhattan techniques", "dead bug techniques", or (if you can find and afford it), wirewrap or IDC breadboards. Use google to find examples.You will note that many "masters" use those techniques, e.g. Jim Williams and Bob Pease.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 01:16:59 pm
content: Good advice. I too spent way too many years debugging them. I now only use them for working out if I've biased something correctly or when hand selecting components as it's easier to fix quickly there, then it's dead bug. I will say that the Wisher ones aren't the best; they are the least crap.Have a Pease breadboard to cheer you up

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 02:02:59 pm
content: Quote from: Brutte on December 16, 2016, 11:45:29 amAnd here is the rub.If the power bus occupies odd count (of 100mils spacings) and main 5-2-5 field has even row count, there is a skew by 1/2 of a hole when both are center aligned.The Wisher ones from a linked page seem to have [5-1]-5 power bus (where the part in brackets is repeated, 9 times here) so it is odd while the main field is even (64 rows).The ones I use (China noname) have power bus with [5-1]-5-2-[5-1]-5 arrangement which is even and the main field is odd (63 rows).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 02:21:34 am
content: +1 Wisher. Not sure that I have tried a 3M, but Wisher as good as any I have used.SingedFingers, that picture has to be a joke.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 03:31:08 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 18, 2016, 02:21:34 amAbsolutely not a joke. That is the breadboard for the Pease-designed LM131 voltage-to-frequency converter, and appears on the cover of his excellent book, "Troubleshooting Analog Circuits".As well as being an "analogue dinosaur", he didn't do much high speed design.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 08:58:37 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 18, 2016, 02:21:34 amAbsolutely not. It isveryreal andverypractical. And when you understandwhy, you will have learned a lot.Have a look at the "prototyping circuit boards" section ofhttp://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-williams/If you think it is only suitable for low frequencies, then you should see how it isnecessaryto prototype RF circuits. Start withhttp://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/Prototyping.htm#Manhattan_Construction_for_RFAnd if you think it isn't suitable for production, have a look inside Tektronix 465 and 475 scopes!

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 11:09:14 am
content: Repaired a few 465's. Probably the best example you could have picked, especially the front end amp chain coming in from the attenuators.There are very few people who intimately understand the physics of what they're working with.The breadboard Pease has there has several semiconductor elements which were standard Natsemi parts used in their fab process sliced and packaged into individual cans. The objective of the game was to build a new IC by rearranging the standard parts in new and interesting ways, then lay it out and get it fabbed.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 12:30:03 pm
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on December 18, 2016, 11:09:14 amAnd elsewhere, if you lookBut I suspect some were merely production tweaks.I'm not counting the HT/EHT section, since that was largely a leftover from the valve days, PCBs weren't quite so trusted, and there was a lack of boardspace. Having said that, the Tek1502 2kV section was pure PCB.QuoteTrue.The major point remainsm of course: deadbug and manhattan are good ways of building analogue (and to some extent digital) circuits at all frequencies.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 03:41:28 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 18, 2016, 12:30:03 pmAbsolutely. But beginners (and this is the beginners section, after all) should not think it would be wise to copy Bob Pease's methods. Mere mortals can't hope to have his visceral understanding of the properties of both components and interconnects, or to keep track of those nests of spaghetti wiring.Pease was a master of analogue electronics in the same way that Picasso was a master of paint; he knew when he could break the rules to which lesser beings must adhere.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2016, 04:10:48 pm
content: To be fair, it's not about knowing when you can break the rules, but about when you can't break the rules.Step one in education should be a typical discussion of lumped vs distributed models and fourier series. The best analogy being the one ARRL use in their handbooks about evolving the former into the latter as a cavity filter. Fourier series because even a hard edged 50Hz square wave has undesirable VHF properties.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 03:17:37 am
content: QuoteReasoning behind my comment is the wiring job. Wiring up like that, you can't possibly touch the thing without something falling apart. And debugging it would be a nightmare. You can do point to point like an analog dinosaur and still not end up with something that looks like 10 yr old playing with playdoh pasta maker. Whatever time he saved in not giving a flying copulation how neat the wiring (not necessarily bundled together, either, you can do ratsnest RF wihtout looking like that), he lost x10 just the first time a connection came loose.Wire wrap can be used at RF frequencies. I've never seen anyone intentionally bend their wrap wires into 4" tall replica of pubic hair in order to reduce parasitic coupling. This kinda project coulda been easier with some extra long pin headers and wire wrap.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 07:53:48 am
content: You can always use stripboard

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 09:59:37 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 19, 2016, 03:17:37 amIn my experience all those points applyeven moreto solderless breadboard.Would you expect anything built on a solderless breadboard to be in any way robust or rugged? It is a temporary construction method suitable for quick experimentation - like rats nest.Manhatten is much more rugged, and dead bug can be quite respectable as well.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 10:14:34 am
content: QuoteRobust and rugged enough to place probes and modify it without chance of starting a new problem, yes. It IS a rat's nest. But you can do rat's nest (random trace, without close coupling of wires) without adding so much to the 3rd dimension.If you need, you can add twisted pair even, where needed. Plug and play jumpers are only quick and easy to a certain point. He passed that point several rats ago.Quick experimentation should preferably allow some modification without playing Operation or untangling Gordian knot. It IS possible on a solderless breadboard. This is why for higher complexity of connections, I use wire wrap on the breadboard. How he even managed to place the last 50 jumper wires...I honestly thought the picture was a gag.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 10:28:57 am
content: use perfboard over stripboard, double sided copper board is best for RF or the odd pcb. -printed circuit