Good books on machine shop tech? - to make enclosures+small parts  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 03:30:05 pm
content: I'm looking for some tips to (older is fine) books I can find used or web sites where I can pick up the (very) basics needed to understand working with soft metals, plastics, etc. with a drill, mill, CNC, etc.Right now just for making enclosures I can put my projects in.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 04:12:51 pm
content: This might be overkill, but it is the de facto machinist guide.https://www.amazon.com/Machinerys-Handbook-29th-Erik-Oberg/dp/083112900X/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1512317427&sr=8-8&keywords=machinery%27s+handbook+30th+edition

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 04:41:53 pm
content: Machinery's Handbook is great. It has been published for 100 years or so - look for older copies on eBay or ABEbooks for a bargain.Other books I like:- Home Machinists Handbook by Doug Briney (beginner level, tends to recommend Sherline products...)- Starrett Book for Student Machinists- Myford Series Seven Manual (UK)- How to Run a Lathe: The Care and Operation of a Screw Cutting Lathe (South Bend - USA)Youtube - MrPete222 (Tubalcain) - 800+ videos from a retired Machine Shop instructorEdit: wording

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 05:07:23 pm
content: There are so many... a couple of favourites:The model engineers workshop manual by Geo. H. ThomasThe amateurs workshop by Ian Bradley

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 05:55:05 pm
content: The classic is Karl Moltrecht, "Machine Shop Practice" vol. 1 and vol. 2But it's probably an overkill in this case (and pricey).

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 06:07:51 pm
content: This series looks promising:http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/142-machine-shop-1This is just one of many.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 06:28:38 pm
content: As a former full time machinist....I think I used machinery handbook 2-3 times in 10 years.I learned the most from a book that explained the mechanics of cutting....rake angles to speeds to feeds to chip loads. It made no sense at first, but once I started cutting it did. Machining requires a combination of knowledge, intuition, and practical experience. If you don't break a few things, you are not learning.Short and misplld from my mobile......

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 06:30:45 pm
content: My favorite YT channel is NYC CNC.....excellent resource for every skill level.Short and misplld from my mobile......

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 07:10:25 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on December 03, 2017, 06:28:38 pmCan you recall the title of the book?I did a quick search and found "The Science and Engineering of Cutting" by Professor Tony Atkins - is that it??

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2017, 11:54:08 pm
content: Tool Engineers Handbook, Wilson/Harvey, McGraw-Hill 1959,Mechanical Design for Electronics Production, John M. Carrol, McGraw-Hill 1956Fertigungsverfahren der Mechatronik, Feinwerk- und Praezisionsgeraetefertigung, A. Riss, Springer 2012Fertigungstechnik, Fritz/Schulze, Springer 2010Manufacturing Engineers Reference Book, D.Koshal, Butterworth-Heinemann 1993The Advanced Machinist, AudelWorkshop Processes, Practices and Materials, B.J.Black, Newnes 2010NAVEDTRA12204-A Machinery RepairmanTM9-243 Use and Care of Hand Tools and Measuring ToolsTM5-745 HVAC and Sheet Metal WorkTC9-524 Fundamentals of Machine Tools

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 07:45:51 am
content: There are a multitude of different texts available on this subject, ranging from beginner level to expert. What would be best for a given person would depend on what they are looking to learn from the text. If you have no concept of proper setups for machining, order of operations, blueprint reading and etc. you'd be best served by something on the beginner end of the spectrum. Machinery's Handbook is an excellent resource for more advanced guys but it would be a little too specific and not very beginner-friendly in terms of procedures et al.Old Audel's books are very good for the earlier end of that learning spectrum, I would check eBay for some of those.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 08:17:50 am
content: As someone who does a lot of cowboy machining professionally, I can assure you those MIT courses are well worth your while. "How to run a Lathe" is excellent too. Still looking for something decent on cutter geometry: it will probably be focused on lathe tools since those are the most commonly still hand cut. But like rx8pilot says, it's the key.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 11:11:58 am
content: Best to stay away from books/courses focused on commercial or business orientated machine shops. The procedures and tools used there have little in common to what is carried out in the standard amateur's workshop (not always but usually). Rarely do you use maximum cutting speeds at home, or be concerned about maximum throughput at the expense of cutter life. Most commercial lathe work (for example) is followed by grinding if a good surface finish is needed - the amateur expects it all from the lathe cutter. So look out for 'home workshop' books and tips as these are more relevant.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 02:14:02 pm
content: For sheet metal work, Ron Fournier's books:Sheet Metal Handbook: How to Form and Shape Sheet Metal for Competition, Custom and Restoration UseMetal Fabricator's HandbookThe Myford manual & Bradley's book are probably the best start. Moltrecht's book is great, but avoid the 2 volume set of similar title by Jones. There's an excellent 2 volume set by Chapman entitled "Workshop Technology", though it's a bit harder to find. Does show up on Amazon though and there's apparently a newer edition than my 2nd ed.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 11:43:11 pm
content: And some more which are more or less related (sorry, some are German again):The Home Workshop Dictionary, Neil M. Wyatt, 2016Die Mechanik für den Hobby-Elektroniker, D. Nuehrmann, Franzis Verlag, 1979(content also mostly in:)Das große Werkbuch Elektronik, D.Nuehrmann, Franzis, 1989Praktische Blechabwicklungen; Laskowski/John, Verlag Technik, 1992Handwerkliche Blechbearbeitung, Alfons Gaßner, Verlag Handwerk, 1998Werkstoffkunde und Werkstoffbearbeitung, Falk/Gockel/Lernet, Dt. Bundespost, 1990Taschenbuch fuer Handwerk und Industrie, H.H.Schweizer et.al., Bosch/Christiani, 2005Mechanical Trades Pocket Manual, C.A.Nelson, Mcmillan, 1990Handbook of manufacturing processes, James Brella, Industrial Press, 2007Gewusst Wie! - Praktische Tips zum Bohren, Aufbohren, Reiben, Fraesen Saegen und GewindeschneidenTh.Krist, Fikentscher/Titex, 1981

author: Awesome14
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 01:00:25 am
content: For the basic hobbyist, books are a bit of overkill. Drilling is intuitively obvious. Milling is mostly having the correct tooling. The books don't cover Dremel type tools, or much about hand-held tools, such as files. Most hobbyists are not going to purchase a mill. The books don't tell you how to use a drill press as a mill, but it works, slowly.I recommend you just get some tools and when you run into a question, seek advice at a machinist's forum. Hobby machining is 90% experience.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 01:40:07 am
content: Quote from: Awesome14 on December 06, 2017, 01:00:25 amYeah. Don't need no books. Why would you risk learning more than you need? Very inefficient. Just in time! That's the way. I don't want to waste my time learning to swim. I'll wait until I'm drowning.BTW Drilling is intuitively obvious only if you already know about feeds and speeds. And milling with a drill press is a *really* bad idea. As in getting severely injured bad idea.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 01:43:38 am
content: A mill is similar to a drill but designed to handle both lateral and axial forces and also to hold the cutting tool in a different manner which prevents its egress and potentially becoming a projectile.That makes sense.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 11:53:43 am
content: I find that most people who advocate against books just don't know what they don't know, heh. There is always more to learn, and every bit helps.Regarding even just drilling knowledge, there's speed (which can be dependent on material drilled as well as feed and hole depth - as well as whether one uses coolant or not); feed rate; point included angle; rake angle; clearance angle; splitting points; thinning webs; helix angle; drill material and coatings etc. etc.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 11:59:05 am
content: It only takes a piece of 316 stainless requiring a row of 45mm deep 2mm diameter holes for drilling to suddenly become not so intuitively obvious.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 05:05:23 pm
content: I am EXTREMELY thankful for the books I read early on. Drilling is a nuanced event that really benefits from knowledge.In the beginning, I was only a hobbyist and really struggled. Breaking tools and workpieces. It's not too surprising that when I started actively looking for knowledge, success followed.10+ years of full-time machining later, I am still learning from others - books, YouTube, periodicals, etc.Short and misplld from my mobile......

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 10:21:31 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on December 06, 2017, 11:59:05 amArrgh! depth of hole = 22 X diameter??!!?? I think you are in the territory of water jet (if you just want a non-precision hole) or EDM, if you need precision.Any hole deeper than maybe 8X diameter is going to be very difficult with ordinary drilling. Yes, peck drilling will get you a hole but it won't be straight.But, even simple panel machining is not so simple. I've been doing it in my home shop for 35+ years, and I'm STILL learning.Jon

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 10:38:02 pm
content: Quote from: iainwhite on December 03, 2017, 07:10:25 pmThe book I referred to is in storage and I cannot remember the title. There was nothing particularly amazing about and I am sure there are numerous others that cover the topic in a similar way. The basics of how metal is cut is a knowledge that helps you develop intuition. There is a huge pile technical information that defines geometry, power requirements etc. In general, you only need to commit a small amount of that to memorization. The basic concepts should stick though and you may find that you use the books as a reference when you are trying out a new material, struggling with chatter, or whatever.To get an understanding of the magnitude of the challenge - look at the catalogs for major tool manufacturers like Kennametal. The materials, geometry, coatings, and holders seem to be endless. If you only need to drill a few non-precision holes in a square block periodically - you can fake it with just about any drill. If you need any hole quality (burrs, elongation), positional precision, repeatability, cost-effectiveness, or anything else - you have to learn a few things. One simple example is coatings. many tools are finished with various coatings that offer better performance for a given task. TiN coated HSS drill bits are super common, but aluminum sticks to TiN. That SUCKS! There are coatings just for aluminum and they allow you to drill faster, get more holes per drill, give you a better-finished result. There is also a tool geometry for every material with various point angles and flute speeds. Even tool holders are nuanced.A low-cost CNC shop that did some parts for me recently put the correct drill into a sloppy tool holder. The resulting holes were not only oversized, but each hole varied. Scrap! The tool runout had the drill wobbling its way through the material. Drill press conversions and cheap mills are almost always guilty of sloppy mechanics like the tool holder I just mentioned. The end result is that you get a different part every time and the best part you can possibly make is still a marginal part. I learned that hard way. In the mid-90's I got a cheap manual machine. I thought to myself, I don't care if it is slow I just want to learn and make some parts. The problem is the limitations of the machine kept me from learning or making a good part regardless of how much time I spent on it. Even after a decade of experience, I doubt I could pull off a decent part on one of those machines with rotten mechanics.Tool manufacturers offer excellent data, but it is only useful to those that can interpret it. A modern carbide end mill is so much better today compared to 10-20 years ago that the data literally looks like a misprint. Then you go out to your machine, with data in hand, and the tool breaks anyway. What happened? This is where experiments and experience are the only educational option. Once you have an understanding of tool geometry, rake angles, chip loads, radial and axial DOC, climb and conventional, etc,etc....you can start cutting. You may be able to find some demo videos of someone ripping through Ti 6AL-4V (Titanium) like it was a stick of butter. What you cannot see is the rigidity of the setup, the HP of the machine, the tool holder, the motion control look ahead, and many other variables. Many tool manufactures do ridiculous demos where each part wears out a $100 end mill - which is not really practical for anyone outside of military aerospace.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 10:41:15 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on December 06, 2017, 10:21:31 pmA drill depth of 22x the diameter is a specialty task. Special drills and through spindle coolant.It aint impossible though......https://youtu.be/uqfjn9fT0V4

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2017, 11:21:10 pm
content: It is possible to mill with a drill press in fact you can purchase milling bases used for drill presses.But they are limited to soft metals like aluminum and brass.They do work well for plastics and wood.You can't use fluted drills for milling.They cannot handle the lateral stresses.You can get mill bits with shanks of 1/8 to 3/8.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 12:01:22 am
content: Just wanted to mention there's a wealth of machinist information available on Keith Fenner's youtube channel. I've learned a lot even though I don't have metal working machines. I'd love to get an old brigeport mill at some point...but...no time for this anyway.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 02:36:22 am
content: Quote from: Jwillis on December 06, 2017, 11:21:10 pmIt depends on what your expectations are. Drill presses have wobbly spindles, drill chucks, little to no rigidity, and a milling table is anything but stable. All those things result in serious limitations in what you can make regardless of the material or cutting tools.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2017, 03:49:35 am
content: I just spent most of the morning on the lathe turning up some brass inserts for the line feed on my Stihl brush cutter, they only cost a few bucks but I wanted quality brass ones made to perfection, none of that stamped out aluminium rubbish. If you can get a copy of the black books similar to the ones pictured below they are certainly a handy reference and resource for general machining and fabrication.In relation to milling with a pedestal drill don't do it unless the machine was specifically designed for it, leave that sort of crap to the other idiots who probably deserve to be bonked on the head. Proper milling machines will incorporate a threaded drawbar or similar which will lock the threaded arbor or milling head into the spindle whereas drilling machines generally use a tanged tapered arbor which can be thrown out with even the slightest of lateral load, these are fine for drilling but not for milling.I have a Sieg Super X3 and initially started milling light stuff with a three morse taper standard chuck when a mate saw what I was up to and as a full time machinist he gave a good argument as to why I should not be milling stuff with both a standard chuck and also with a tanged arbor which was not secured to the spindle, I quickly changed my ways and fortunately still have both my eyes, hands and a bit of common sense left.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 02:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: Jwillis on December 06, 2017, 11:21:10 pmWell, sort of. Those tables are actually intended for positioning the workpiece so the holes are in the right places.You *can* close your eyes and walk into a busy street. You might even survive. But not a good idea.