How does a hobbiest go about getting a product designed? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: BrendonV
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 31, 2017, 08:09:56 am
content: Hi,I was hoping for some advise from those in the know. Basically I have a design and some documentation on an industrial control product I would like to develop for a niche application. Whilst I love to play around with electronics as a hobby designing a robust, safe and quality product is beyond me. I am also limited in the capital investment I can put into the product. I'm stuck in the sense that I have a clear vision and design for the product but cannot afford to just take that to a design firm and say there you go due to the huge investment. Any tips from any EE out there about other ways to bring my design to reality? Is freelance an option? Is there a way I can document my design and send it to company's to tender on?Excuse me for keeping the product idea to myself at this point as it is relatively niche to a specific industry.Thank you for any guidance and advice you may have.

author: danadak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2017, 02:12:24 pm
content: If you have a basic proto you can always consider selling design outrightor negotiate a royalty. In order to be successful normally you need someIP that is scarce, eg. attracts investor because of time to market, proprietaryconsiderations.It helps if you have done some market research to establish to an investor thatyour ideas are not a one off product. Also your vision must be well expressed,usually in the form of a business plan, even a minimalist plan has value.Regards, Dana.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2017, 08:18:59 pm
content: The issue is that if you identify yourself as a "hobbyist", this implies that you see yourself as a member of a group which is typically time-rich, cash-poor, and for which learning new skills and making stuff yourself is the norm. Hobbyists don't get products designed for them; they do the design work themselves.The alternative is that you are a business, with the resources to get a product developed, tested, approved, and put into production.The distinction between the two may be entirely a matter of commitment and perspective - but you do need to decide which camp you fall into.If you don't have the skills and knowledge to develop your idea yourself, then you need to hire people who do have those skills at normal commercial rates. If you can afford to do that out of your own means, then that's great.If not, you may need to go to your bank with a business plan, and take out a loan to cover the start-up costs for your business, which will include R&D costs, insurance, testing, approvals, tooling, manufacturing, marketing, advertising, and so on. That's what banks are for; to assess whether or not a business proposition is likely to generate a profit, and to fund or decline it depending on the outcome of that assessment.It may be that you can partner with an engineer who will provide skills, time, effort and IP in return for a stake in the business. The size of this stake will, of course, have to reflect the true commercial value of the work which the engineer has done, multiplied by a factor to account for the risk that the project may not be a success.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2017, 08:41:32 pm
content: Maybe the " niche application " is just too niche.If a true industial application it probably would have been developed before, if worthwhile.Forgetting any R & D, Marketing etc , have you done any basic costings as to the actual profit per unit sold and how many units you could likely sell in a niche market, 1k ,10k 100k + ?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 05:57:37 am
content: Quote from: picandmix on February 01, 2017, 08:41:32 pmThis would be my first concern.If you have not done a search on this idea to see if it has - do it now. You may find it has been done before and either wasn't worth it - or has been adopted already in another form. You might also find IP issues.If you have done a search and found nothing, then consider whether you have used the correct terminology for your searches. Some industries have developed a jargon which has terms that appear to an outsider as quite illogical, until you trace the origins - back to the industrial revolution, the place it was first used or the inventor's daughter.Not know what you have in mind makes offering advice interesting - but we can understand your caution.My curiosity is piqued, however.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 08:51:03 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 01, 2017, 08:18:59 pmThat's the absolute last resort. That's the traditional business school model and it comes with a high failure rate and often massive blow-out's on budget.If you can't fund it most of it yourself then don't do it.Put what money you have into a polished prototype and try to attract an order from a company that has a use for it.Or take that polished prototype and quote it out to "production-ise it".QuoteBanks know jack-all about technology, and even less about niche industrial products.Just because look over your proposal and give you money means almost nothing about it's actual real viability.You could write a polished BS business proposal for a perpetual motion machine and they would fund it if the presentation is good enough.Heck, companies like Juicera get 10's of millions of dollars in funding fromprofessional tech investorsfor the dumbest product idea in history.http://liesandstartuppr.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/how-is-this-thing.htmlQuoteThis is a reasonable option, especially if you have a decent polished prototype and all they have to do is productionise it.Don't go to an engineer or freelancer with just and idea, they will either say "thanks but no thanks" or charge you an outrageous sum because of the risk involved.Good freelance engineers and consulting houses are experts as risk assessment on whether a project will be a big PITA, that's their livelihood.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 09:22:28 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 02, 2017, 05:57:37 amI've seen this countless when people contact me to help out with their brilliant idea.In most cases the idea is not original or obviously will not be viable because *insert reason*. Often the simplest of google searches with the right terms will reveal this, yet people seem incapable of doing this. Sometimes it's an industry knowledge thing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 09:26:11 am
content: Quote from: danadak on January 31, 2017, 02:12:24 pmIn the industrial space you simply need a product that solves a problem for the client.Very common to show a prototype and they will order 10 or a 100 of them. Use the profit on those to bootstrap your business. Let your client/customer be your investor.QuoteOnly a fool invests in an idea and business plan. A nice working proto is worth 1000 business plans.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 09:39:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 02, 2017, 08:51:03 amI guess you could substitute "bank" with VC, friends, family, or anywhere else you can think of who might be prepared to help fund the project. The point I was trying to make, is that developing a product that's fit for sale does require an upfront investment, which has to come from somewhere.QuoteI'm sure you'd agree that "all they have to do" could mean anything from laying out a PCB the right shape, to a complete redesign.A working proof of concept may indeed be a good way to secure backing for a project. It may, however, be unwise to assume that much of it can be turned straight into production-ready hardware.If nothing else, the engineer producing the final version will be responsible for it, and that can involve a lot of design verification work. "Why did they do X?" can sometimes take as long to answer as "how would I achieve X"?.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 10:21:19 am
content: Design it all yourself.You can get a professional looking product with a nice off the shelf extruded aluminium enclosure using some PCBs as front/rear panels. This gives you the correct shape panels, with holes in the exact place you need to mount switches/knobs etcYou also get silkscreen for text/labels and you can even use gold plating to make gold text/labels as well.Get an extruded enclosure with slots down the side for holding the PCB.Hammond have some and will do custom orders for any length.You can use 90deg headers for mounting a little PCB vertically behind the front PCB if you need to mount tact buttons or leds on. Or if your cheap use the slot method where the pcbs fit into routed slots and you solder the tracks together.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 11:40:00 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 02, 2017, 09:39:50 amBut that upfront investment doesn't have to be as significant as you make it out to be. Nor do you need to do all the things you mention "R&D costs, insurance, testing, approvals, tooling, manufacturing, marketing, advertising, "All you may need is some R&D and initial prototype costs.Once you have that prototype to demo then you can shop it around and get essentially pre-sales.Marketing and advertising are a huge guaranteed waste of money if you are targeting a niche industry app like the OP is.You could argue insurance too and all the other usual stuff that goes along with operating a professional business.If you go into the game thinking that the only way is to follow the MBA business playbook, then you are doing yourself a disservice.QuoteI'm sure you'd agree that "all they have to do" could mean anything from laying out a PCB the right shape, to a complete redesign.A working proof of concept may indeed be a good way to secure backing for a project. It may, however, be unwise to assume that much of it can be turned straight into production-ready hardware.Sure. But when you have a functional prototype the unknowns (and hence risk) are almost always much fewer. Lower risk and less unknowns means a more accurate quote and a choice of more people who are willing to take it on.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 11:51:21 am
content: If there are things you know you don't need, then that's greatMuch better that, than to discover further down the line that there are things you hadn't thought of

author: BrendonV
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 01:17:25 pm
content: Thank you all for your words of wisdom it has helped me think through the process. Yes i have done some searching and this product does exist in may forms however not in the form of which I plan to implement. It is hard to comment any further without going into detail. I have been in this particular industry for 20 years and innovation in this particular control product hasn't changed since the 70's. The existing hardware in the industry is hard to use, clunky and lacks the many features we can utilize in modern day electronics.I feel my best path is to first develop a prototype to physically show the functionality of the product. My question would be... how would an engineer / consulting house react when i walk in with my "beginner hobbiest" prototype and ask them to turn it into a commercial product. Do i look like a time waster? How good does my prototype have to be to be taken seriously? Sure i can put a development board in a box, connect in sensors buttons and write a program to get a working demo going but is that enough?Thanks again

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 02:21:23 pm
content: You won't be turned away because of the quality (or not!) of your prototype. Engineers expect to provide the design expertise, it's part of the job. A good one will walk you through the process of having bespoke electronics designed for the first time, and once they understand what it is you're looking to achieve, they'll give you a rough idea of the amount of time and effort which is likely to be involved.They'll also ask a lot of questions about how the product will be used, where, by whom, and what specs it needs to meet in terms of temperature, power, EMC, safety, reliability, serviceability and so on. It's really important to be able to nail these down *before* any design work starts, as changes later on mean throwing work away, and that's costly. A good engineer will help you work out the full specification if you haven't already done it yourself.For a complex product, there may be a feasibility study to do before they can give you an accurate estimate of time and cost. If it's relatively simple, that may not be necessary.A proof-of-concept mock-up of the finished product is more useful to other parties, such as potential customers or end-users. An engineer won't need to actually see, say, a dev board hooked up to some I/O devices just to know that a device can be made to work that way.Where there's a choice, they may also want to use their own preferred parts rather than the ones you've prototyped with.You may get turned away if an engineer is simply too busy, which often happens with good ones. Some specialise in a particular area, and may be unwilling to take on your project if it requires them to do a lot of background learning which won't then be relevant to jobs they're likely to work on in future.You'll only look like a time waster if you turn up with a pitch along the lines of "here's my great idea, please will you do all the work, and I'll let you keep a piece of the profits".

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 12:47:19 am
content: Having a working prototype - however frail - is a big step in the right direction. It should be presented neatly enough so that things are clearly laid out and if it's three times bigger than it needs to be when in production, don't worry. You can show what it needs to do - and, from your own efforts, you will have come across limitations that need to be overcome. Certainly bring your notes and diagrams as these, too will be valuable.However, I see your biggest challenge will be finding the right engineer.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 01:31:54 am
content: Quote from: BrendonV on February 02, 2017, 01:17:25 pmYes, that will be enough, as long as it demonstrates most the basic functionality you have in find.Experienced engineers are good as sniffing out how much work is required to polish it up and risks involved in commercialising it.Also, beware that there are easy ways and hard (read expensive) ways to commercialise a product.For example, if you want to make only a few thousand of them then an off-the self case is entirely appropriate, and as someone mentioned before, a PCB front panel etc is more than enough to look like a commercial polished product. Nice low risk, low tooling outlay option. But someone might try and convince you the only way is fully custom moulding with $59k in tooling and hiring packaging graphics experts etc etc. Or vice-versa, not advising you correctly if your requirements are high volume.

author: wilmer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 04:53:39 am
content: Hi,I am PhD student in controlif you want to check your idea, I am willing to hear your idea and if is industrial control I can point you in the correct direction.Prepare a confidentiality contract and we can discuss your idea without you worrying about it.cheers

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 08:07:59 am
content: Almost all products these days are mostly software in terms of development cost. If you can do that yourself, that's a huge start. There are enough resources out there to teach yourself.Processor power is cheap, so if you need fancy GUIs or complex processing ( e.g. image recognition) etc. it's entirely feasible to use higher-level programming languages and libraries and run it on a RasPi or similar.If you can get something working on a development board, maybe with off-the-shelf add-ons (Adafruit,Sparkfun etc.), to the point where it is pretty much fully functional, that gives you a platform on which to develop the software.Buy a nice looking off-the-shelf case, so you have a physical thing you can demonstrate to a potential customer.This will so far have cost very little other than time - probably well under $1000.Once you have established that it's worthwhile, the process of turning that into a more refined product is basically just condensing the pile of devboards into a purpose-made design, with minimal software work, maybe adding some ruggedising ( input protection etc.), which is a much more finite and cost-able task for a design house, or a one-man-band consultant. In either case, you really need to get recommendations as there are cowboys and idiots out there, especially in the latter category. If anyone says they can start immediately, walk away - good people are always busy.Another question is how cost-sensitive is it? Many industrial devices can be shown to have a demonstrable pay-back time becaue of time or efficiency savings.Maybe an initial small batch made from off-the-shelf boards and modules might be feasible, to get some initial sales to either finance future development, or maybe get the interest of a manufacturer who you could license it to.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 08:52:09 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 03, 2017, 08:07:59 amThis is where modules like these come in real handy.http://www.4dsystems.com.au/product/gen4_uLCD_70D/A complete polished solution that you can easily program to do automated control.Impresses the heck out of clients and investors with very little effort, just whack it in a case.Not great for mass production, but great for industrial type stuff in the hundreds or something, just pass the cost on.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 09:16:21 am
content: Also, if your really worried about telling anyone about your idea, even after getting them to sign NDA or whatever, you can figure out an alternative story about the industry the product will be used in.Same features, just being used for a totally different purpose.This goes a little way to safeguard your design.If after hearing about your idea and industry application they go do some googling and see "wow, that product is going to make millions" they are more likely to try to get in on the action than if they google and cant see that much of a use for your product in the "fake industry" you give them.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 09:57:08 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 03, 2017, 08:07:59 amQuoteThis seems like as good a place as any to mention some of the questions that anyone thinking of designing a commercial product should have a think about. Here are questions I might ask about a project that was completely new to me, in the approximate order I'd ask them.What does it do?What, specifically, is the end application? In what location and industry?Is it 'high risk' in any sense? (ie. safety critical, or otherwise demanding of a very high standard of reliabilityWhen do you need it?What are all the inputs and outputs? (Buttons, lights, data ports, transducers...)How is it powered? What voltage range? Is the supply clean, or subject to noise, transients, drop-outs...?Who will use it? What level of experience, training or expertise might they have? Might it be wilfully abused?What mechanical constraints apply? (Size, weight, materials, mounting points, cabling, connectors...)What (rough) quantity will it be manufactured in?Target build cost per unit?What environment will it be used or installed in? (Temperature, shock, vibration, dust, liquids, humidity etc)What regulatory approvals do you need the finished product to meet? Do you need this process taking care of too?How long does the product need to last?Is it important that it be straightforward to service and repair? By whom, and with what level of skill?Which parts of the system do you need an engineer to design for you, and which are already taken care of?Are there any existing components (hardware or software) which you'd like to retain?Do you require work to be carried out to any specific standards (eg. use of CAD tools or libraries, or your company's internal processes)?What do you want to receive in terms of technical data? (Original schematic and PCB CAD files, source code, Gerber data, binary files)What do you need in terms of supporting documentation? (User guide, service manual, full technical write-up)Do you require full, outright ownership of the finished IP?Do you need prototypes manufacturing? Do they need to be the same as the finished product? Or does it make sense to produce a 'developers version' which is different, but easier to work with in some ways (size, memory, I/O capability, links, headers, test points...)?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 10:12:30 am
content: Quote from: BrendonV on January 31, 2017, 08:09:56 amAsk yourself exactly what skills you think you are lacking, or aspects of the prrocess you don't understand, and see if you can fill at least some of them in, or identify some specific areas you need advice on.Once you've done that, it may be that you can just hire a consultant/expert for a few hours to answer some specific issues that can then guide you into doing more of the work yourself, to get you a lot further down the road.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 10:22:13 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 03, 2017, 09:57:08 amAnd for an industrial product, remember that "risk" also means expensive downtime if it doesn't work properly.QuoteDo you need to provide a UI or documentation in different languages?QuoteThis is one of the most important questions, and one that is almost always not examined by inexperienced designers/specifiers.It has huge influence on the direction the design takes.For a new product, you should probably start off assuming the minimum viable batch size, and if that sells you can always look at cost-cutting later. If you can't make a profit out of a smallish batch, i.e. you need to rely on cost-optimising, chances are the product isn't viable at all long-term.QuoteConsider fault diagnosis from day one. Make it easy for faults to be narrowed down - status LEDs, meaningful error messages, logging,test modes etc. In an industrial setting, faultfinding time often relates directly to costs of lost production. Remember that faults may initially be investicated by someone whose normal tools are a hammer and a big spanner.For example look at any industrial sensor - it will always at least have indicator LED(s) for status and power.

author: BrendonV
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 12:07:43 pm
content: Wow thanks guys. Overwhelming response. Got a bit of shock when i pulled up YouTube this afternoon and saw Dave answer my question in a eevblab 😀 So much thoughtful and constructive advice is exactly what I needed. I will keep you posted with how I go on this endevour of mine.Can't say thanks enough for all of your help!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 02:11:21 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 02, 2017, 09:39:50 amThink twice re friends and family. This is a great way to ruin relationships if you fail, unless they are prepared to say good-bye to their money from start.

author: bittumbler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 05:57:20 pm
content: Also not just think of the product itself, but also how it will be sold to the customer.The bigger a company your (industrial) customer is, the harder will it be to sell to them (worst is government).Big companies want to buy only from "certified" or "approved" vendors/suppliers. Decisions will be made by committees and take forever. Could this be a reason nobody else in the market created your product?

author: Karlo_Moharic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 09:40:11 pm
content: Jesus Christ , you never heard of Kickstarter dude. Just make a prototype and do what everybody does this days , start Kickstarter campaing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 12:07:41 am
content: Quote from: Karlo_Moharic on February 03, 2017, 09:40:11 pmHow would Kickstarter work for a niche industrial product?

author: Karlo_Moharic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 02:47:08 am
content: Who gives a rats ass about what market the product is intended for , let's be honest most products on Kickstarter are rather specialised products (that in all honesty and in most cases only a moron would supprot, yet people still get finaced for all kinds of stupid shit...batteriser.)It doesn't even matter for what type of enviroment said products are designed for. As long as you find an excuse for people to give you their money , you can pretty much sell them anything. For all they care, tell them that your product saves baby whales and polar bears. I'm not saying that OP should go that far but , he can most probably find some excuse for why should people give him their money.It's not about product but rather about marketing. If you are straped for chash this is a great way to get some money , with good marketing you don't even have to build a prototype , but instead just show few 3d models.Now spare me a lecture about how this is not fair or correct or whatever , because the fact is this is how you sell a product these days.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 02:56:10 am
content: Quote from: Karlo_Moharic on February 04, 2017, 02:47:08 amMorality aside -1. How do you expect to raise funds for a product that is NOT going to be of interest to the masses?and2. How do you expect to raise funds for a product where the details, function and features -and even the industry- are an "industrial secret"?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 02:58:41 am
content: My apologies. Upon re-reading your post, I realised the answer.Fraud.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 03:12:08 am
content: If I were going to try for a sideways approach - I would do something like this:I would be honest and say I was trying to fund the development of an industrial product and the fund raising campaign will offer some other product which has some sort of uniqueness/value. This would be offered at a price point that would cover it's cost and provide some funds towards the development.As an example I thought of a coffee mug. I know that's not a great idea in terms of the breakage risk and shipping cost, but it is just an example... On that mug (or whatever the item is) I would put a symbol/graphic/whatever that the final product will be associated with. Maybe it could become a trademark. I might also put some text like "Top Secret Project" on one side and "Don't ask me what it is or I'll have to kill you." on the other. (If you use this, please send me one as payment.)Just a thought.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 01:59:06 pm
content: Yet another way to think about possible approaches:If you lack the funds and infrastructure to get the product designed (doing it yourself, or via a professional design house or other contractor) -- doesn't that imply that you also lack the funds and infrastructure to get your product produced and marketed? Hence, the idea of subcontrating the design and then selling this as "your" product will probably not work. Especially so if the target market is professional/industrial, where customers will be reluctant to buy from a garage-style supplier.This would essentially leave you with the option of taking your design to an existing company which already has products in this market. Present them with the idea, preferably show them a prototype or proof-of-concept implementation; and suggest that they design, build and market the product, and pay you a royalty.As mentioned by others here, this approach can work.Big caveat:Don't overestimate the value of the idea you have, and what a company might want to pay for it. You have just an idea, and rely on someone else's funds, expertise and infrastructure to develop, produce and market a product. You don't even have a patent on your idea, which would protect that company from copycats if the product should become a success.Combine that with the niche character of the application you have in mind, and be prepared to get some pocket money out of this, plus a nice ego boost from seeing your idea as a real product. Which is still quite worthwhile -- I don't mean to be negative, just want to avoid disappointments (for you and others who may be following this thread and are in a similar situation).

author: Karlo_Moharic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 02:37:29 pm
content: You can use that approach, but believe as someone who occasionally works in manufacturing industry as technician (currently I'm a student but when I'm in need of some cash , I usually find some crappy job assembeling some shit or something like that) , I can tell you from first hand experience that it's not about how good your product is , bur rather how good are you at bullshiting people.To give you example , not so long ago I was working in train manufacturing plant and let me tell you something. From dashboards that for no good reasons cost 70 000 euros (that is just for the dashboard , with no equipment) , to high end heating fans that break down constantly , or heating floor panels (that were apperantly made by Hulk) there is whole lot of more than crappy "industrial" grade equipment out there. I also rememember this one case where I was working in some factory and we needed a whole lot of drill bits (if I'm not mistaken , I think that as we were mounting a part we also needed to drill holes in mounting plate or something like that) and for what ever reason somebody working in purchasing department decided that the best company for the job was some pretty unknown company located in Switzerland (for the record if you want a good toolling and you are located in Europe , you go to Germans period). As a result well let's just say that they could have probably got better drill bits if they where buying them off of ebay. Keep in mind that I'm talking about "industrial" grade equipment with all the paperwork and bells and whistles that came out to be just another piece of crapIf OP has an idea for well made and designed piece of industrial equipment even better , but again keep in mind that it's not about product but rather about how good of a salesman you are. You can have the best idea in the world and the best design and so on , but if you don't know how to sell that you won't make any money. At the same time if you know how to "read" people , you can easily sell them salted mouse balls on a stick and they will buy it off of you with a smile.With that on mind it would help if OP would at least tell us what type of industry are we talking about?(don't worry nobody is trying to steal your idea , it's just that it would be easier for us to give you actual advice)

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 07:49:53 pm
content: Look what turned up in my facebook this morning.. It was dave!

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 07:51:39 pm
content: Quote from: picandmix on February 01, 2017, 08:41:32 pmSo everything worth inventing as already been invented.. What a lot of BS.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2017, 10:56:28 pm
content: Something that i think could be in *every* designers tool box is Fusion 360. Its an awesome bit of software and Dave quite possibly worth you doing a blab or video about. Its got so clever these days..

author: Mosaic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2017, 01:25:34 pm
content: I run freelance prototyping....NDA backed and IP sharing is possible if I feel the product is viable to me. I have done B2B products before. protofabtt@gmail.com. Just turned an idea into a product beta in 12 weeks for a client in Sydney...50% IP shared.I can work thru freelancer.com as well for escrow control.Electronic design.Firmware designProteus ISIS sim, LTSpicePCB design and prototyping (doublesided)Product testingProduct videoProduct docs.

author: sabia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2017, 02:30:40 pm
content: I would strongly suggest trying some freelance sites, such as freelancer.com, upwork or even fiverr.com. It depends a bit what you're looking for, of course, but I myself have had great success on these.From the posts so far it seems that very few people on here are aware of just how many freelancers are out there, who are just starting for themselves, or doing consultancy work after hours (with their employer's blessings!) You can find excellent freelancers who will work their arses off for you if they understand that you are in the startup phase like themselves. (Not to be taken advantage of, of course)I can quickly list some of my past experiences:I had an enclosure designed from start to finish by an excellent mechanical designer in the UK, ready to be injection moulded. Paid £750.On another occasion I had an expert iOS programmer make me a compete app from mock-up to launched app for £1200.I had someone route a rather compact PCB for £360 - an expert EAGLE user who only charges $15/hour (I also used EAGLE at the time, but didn't have the time to route it myself).I had someone make a website as a close copy of another website that I liked the look of, but customised for my business. Paid $250.Mind you, I have also had some less than successful projects with other freelancers, who despite great feedback from past clients were completely clueless....so vetting is important! Either interview properly, or run a small $50-100 project to start off with to see if the designer is any good before committing to a larger project. Also be wary of large companies that move work from one to another. Be sure you interview the same person who will actually do the work! (Should go without saying, but...)I have found that freelancer.com is great for PCB layout work, mechanical work and programming. fiverr.com is great for super small design work like a logo, business cards, slide templates, etc. When I need an expert embedded programmer I use upwork.Good luck!P.S Edited to add that on Freelancer (and possibly upwork) it is SUPER EASY to add an NDA to the agreement, and make the bidding round hidden, etc. It costs a little extra, but especially the NDA is very important.