Hi new member here. Few questions. Hot air vs Tweezers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Levitation
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 02:52:36 am
content: Hello, first of all hello to this wonderful forum. Glad I found this awesome site! I plan to stay here for a very long time thru my journey from being an absolute noob at soldering. I Don't even know the terms for most things yet, like smd soldering, reworking, etc, any guides someone can point me to so I can read up all the different techniques?So a little about what I do, I work full time at a cellular store that my mother owns. Been in the business almost a year now, it's been great! I started knowing absolutely nothing about cell phones. Honestly I didn't even care for phones too much, I had my computer. I didn't even know how to take a sim card out of a phone. I practically got thrown in the business, not having a clue, learning from people here and there, but mostly on my own research unfortunately. No techs here to teach me. We bring our more technical work to other people. Can't afford it too much anymore, rough times, so I want to learn myself. But Now I know how to change sims, unlock phones, repair iPhones, as far as anything that can be accomplished with a screw driver. Unbrick soft bricked phones. So if there's anyone in need of assistance with those things I can help!Anyways, now I want to expand myselfI want to learn how to solder components. I want to learn to solder charging ports, small little ic chips all over the iPhone logic board and Samsung/other phones. Unfortunately I have no one to teach me, just youtube videos. I had a thought to apply to this school here cell phone repair school, 1500 dollars, for 5 days. They teach you how to solder ic chips etc, pretty much everything I want to learn. Only problem is I mean if it's only 5 days time, sounds like they just show you the techniques and it's up to you to practice and master. If that's the case I figure I can watch videos and learn right? Hopefully. I figure I can just pocket the 1500 and buy some really nice equipment. I know it really comes down to skill and knowledge than fancy tools, but I'm ambitious enough that I believe I can practice and master it on my own with the help of others.So on to my question...At the moment I've been searching for weeks, thinking which Soldering Iron to get. Since this will be more than just a hobby for me, but what I will do for a living, I believe I should get some quality stuff that will last me a very long time.I just want a nice quality reliable soldering Iron for working on small logic boards of Cell phones that will help me get the job done.First I was interested in the X-tronic station. But now im leaning more towards Weller brand, but reading they make their products in mexico, was considering hakko, quick, etcHeres the x-tronic I was really leaning towards purchasing:http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A2VQA24/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=35XGIUIKFG1BP&coliid=I2O0ZGXWGGYD83Come to find out the hot air gun isn't as great for small component reworking? If that's what it's called. So don't know...The way I see it, I only want to buy once and buy right. No upgrading later on when I become more experienced. Don't like wasting my money.I've been leaning towards this one quite a bit as well:Seems pretty amazing for use on micro soldering.Weller WX1010http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WX1010-200-Watt-120-Volt-Soldering/dp/B008M7AW6U/ref=sr_1_78?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1391477052&sr=1-78&keywords=wellerAnother weller soldering iron I was considering:http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WD1001-Digital-Channel-Soldering/dp/B000UMBAU2/ref=sr_1_11?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1391476682&sr=1-11&keywords=wellerOr this? Would I notice a difference?Or how about this? Obviously not nearly as pricey, but would it be as sufficient?http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ARU9PO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=35XGIUIKFG1BP&coliid=I194LBSYMOCHQUBut I'm thinking if that's really necessary to spend all that money just for an Iron? Maybe the tools I should really spend a lot in on some quality air guns for reworking smd components? There's a cell phone repair forum that I know of, but honestly they're not as helpful. But a lot of them seem to be using a decent soldering Iron, and a really high quality air type tool that range in the thousands for reworking smd components. Is that the way to go? Would a decent iron suffice in this line of work?Also my main question of this thread is what's the difference between using hot air rework, and tweezers? Like here:http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005N70ZSM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=35XGIUIKFG1BP&coliid=I9BG11664P9W7I saw this youtube video of this guy using tweezers and lifting up small components like it was nothing, and replacing it.Unfortunately, I've noticed when it comes to higher end products not too much information and reviews on it. Does that mean it's not necessarily necessary?Are tweezers just as good for resoldering small smd components that can't be resoldered with an iron but Hot air?Is there benefits of either one? Can they both accomplish the same thing, I'm not even sure if they both can do the same job, desoldering resoldering small smd components that Irons aren't capable of? If so I rather get tweezers, as I would be working on very tiny components on a board... Or would it be best to get an oven? I've heard ovens are better for larger boards, and hot air for small boards like cell phones. Any input on this? I've seen a hot air rework from hakko recommended that go for 1500. But if tweezers are just as good if not better and can achieve the same goal, I think I would prefer tweezers.Really hoping you guys could shed some light for me!! I've been googling for weeks reading, glad I found this forum though. I'm sure there a quite a bit of very knowledgable people, maybe cell phone repair techs? who can help me.Thanks! Sorry for the long read.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 03:28:07 am
content: You could try a JBC...

author: Levitation
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 04:09:28 am
content: JBC does look quite nice. Weller offers the soldering iron/tweezers at 900, JBC at 1300. Is JBC a better brand? I just don't want to spend so much money on something that may just break down. Also my price range is 1500..Looking at the teeny tiny components on the iPhone logic board, it seems to be four sided joints. If that's what you call it. Tweezers wouldn't be effective on those types right? Only the two sided solder joints? So maybe a heat gun would be better use than tweezers...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 04:10:08 am
content: JBC is one of the best manufacturers around. Kicks the ass on Weller.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:13:18 am
content: Hot air can and is used to work on small components. If the area is densely packed the you need to isolate the part in question, cover what you are not working on with foil tape. Hot air is not for use on wires and such. A preheater is a very useful addition to your hot air kit. Hot air is pretty much a necessary item.As for soldering irons, get a good one for sure but also have one for doing not so pleasant things. It sounds as if you will be doing repairs and such. A throw away cheap iron to do things like seating metal inserts, melting a post into a case can ruin a soldering iron.Buy really good solder, it's as important as the iron.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:30:57 pm
content: And quality flux.Weller is a totally decent brand. I think it is a golden pick between cheap stuff (Zhaoxin, Atten etc) and kinda overpriced high-end (JBC, Metcal).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:11:17 pm
content: Really, you'll need all 3 tools IMHO (iron, tweezers, and hot air). Unfortunately, they're not cheap and are going to break your budget if buying new. Also, a pre-heater plate + work holder unit may be in order as well (could go inexpensive here).For example, you could get the Weller WX2021 you linked, and aHakko FR802 hot air station. Together, the cost comes to ~$1800. Could save ~$50 by going with aHakko FM203 station+FM2023 tweezer kit, with the same Hakko FM802 hot air station. But on the latter (tweezers will make a big difference here vs. Hakko IMHO), I'd opt for the Weller or better yet, a JBC (has an edge over the Weller IMHO for both the iron and tweezers in performance).If you're interested in JBC, giveJanel Onlinea call, and see what they can do for you regarding building a DD based kit (2 port station w/ T245 iron, PA120 tweezers, correct stands, and a few tips). JBC does have a hot air station meant for small/medium sized parts (i.e. what you'll find in a cell phone), but it would eat your entire budget on it's own (here).As others have mentioned, use good solder, flux, and desolder wick. Brands such as Kester, AIM (American Iron and Metals), Multicore, Alpha Metals, Indium, and MG Chemicals for solder and flux, and Chemtronics for desolder wick. Less likely to damage the PCB this way (due to fast, high quality results).You'll also need a good selection of tips and nozzles, which will add up as well. Probably would need to add say ~$350 for this, and that's just a basic selection (maybe 3 - 4x for the iron, 1 - 2x sets for the tweezers, and using Chinese made nozzles if they'll fit to save on costs). Shields can be made of aluminum foil or disposable aluminum pie plates (just need to do some cutting, bending, and folding).If your budget can't be increased, you'll have to look for used equipment (has the minimum of necessary parts to make it work at the very least; more is better, but you have to be careful going this route).

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 09:02:01 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 04, 2014, 05:11:17 pmI really hate to contradict you there but you are kinda trying to teach a person (who doesn't even have a license yet) on how to drive a Ferrari. Slow down a bit. You're dealing with a beginner hereFirst of all you are right the equipment are one of the most important part. But to start he wont be needing all that in one go right from the start. It will go there eventually and you're right for a good quality work these tools are needed later on.One has to understand that working on cellphone repair is very difficult from the soldering perspective, and has very little margin for error. So considering that it is advisable to start with some larger component (trough hole stuff) and go on from there to smaller stuff. The reason why I said that is because one will have some problems to see exactly (without magnification) how the solder flows on a 0402 package resistor or on some smaller component. Also it is much harder to inspect the joint visually for flaws, etc,ect...So my advice for now is to simply get a good soldering station and get some DIY electronics kit to start practising. Secondly after the kits find some simple obsolete non high voltage (No TV-s!) electronic equipment that no one cares if you're ruining, and start to desolder/resolder components on it. It will help you to get the basic hand movements and timing right and teach you on how to deal with soldering points that are very much oxidised.As for soldering station I think a little bit different from the others. the JBC stations are GREAT GREAT stations but pricey if buying new. So to start with I recommend you to get a used Metcal MX series station. These are industry standard production irons, it is much less costly, and operating with fixed temperatures, also you can get tweezers with it. And there are not much that can go wrong inside of them To give you an example I thought of something like this:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metcal-MX-500P-11-SmartHeat-Rework-System-w-Tweezer-and-Soldering-handles-/321314053418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acfcf5d2aI very much advise you to stay away from the big Weller one forum member had some very disturbing experience with them (M. András) and to be frank I didn't hear anybody praising the latest versions.Other than the station I can only recommend to get the same as everyone said wick, quality solder, good quality FLUX!But most importantly you need to read watch and learn to understand the basic mechanic behind soldering. As for that I recommend watching these very very old training videos:(Just to note: Processes can change over time, but not basic principles! These videos are very good)Also. Can I ask which part of the world are you from? So we can give you more exact answers on what might be worth buying.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 04:03:24 am
content: Quote from: quarros on February 04, 2014, 09:02:01 pmNot a problem.I realized the OP was a beginner, and thought about where to start without posting an entire page. Given it's meant to be usedprofessionallyhowever, I decided to take that approach and answer the technical aspect of what would best suit the usage stated, and come as close as possible to the budget listed.Simply right equipment for the job approach, and stopped there (figured the rest of it would come up in the discussion, as there's a lot more to be pointed out, particularly on how to learn <practice, practice, practice>).People will be paying the store for proper repairs after all, and I suspect there's an expectation from his mom that he'll be able to pick up these skills in rather short order to get an ROI on whatever equipment she may be paying for. Without eating losses due to damaged devices due to poor workmanship.No substitute for learning, but proper equipment will speed the process IMHO as it's not likely to have calibration issues, DOA, wiring safety, ... types of issues that can occur with inexpensive Chinese equipment.Quote from: quarros on February 04, 2014, 09:02:01 pmI personally prefer temp adjustable for bench prototyping/repair use as it means fewer tips, which can save money, and more flexibility (low melt solder for example on a temp sensitive device).Quote from: quarros on February 04, 2014, 09:02:01 pmAnother member, SLJ, has a recent unit (WX2) that hasn't had any issues. So it seems Weller has finally gotten the WX series sorted.Only issue that still exists ATM in my experience (may be changing, only time will tell), is tip quality is all over the place. Particularly those I've gotten that were manufactured in Bosnia. Japanese made tips have been fine thus far, and the ones I use aren't sourced from Germany or the US (tips for the irons used for WX models are all German from what I've seen listed as COO on All-Spec).FWIW, I have a WD1, WMP, WSP80, and a Stop-n-Go stand to help save tips (this really has helped).Quote from: quarros on February 04, 2014, 09:02:01 pm+1Besides magnification once actually tackling small packages (0402 & smaller) you mentioned, ESD awareness is something else to be covered IMHO as well.

author: Levitation
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 am
content: Wow!! I'm really starting to love this forum! Very informative and helpful. Thank you very much guys for all the info and tips!@ Pickle Thanks for the tips. Throw away iron for not so pleasant things, seating metal insterts, melting a post in a case. Not sure exactly what these mean. Do you think there are not so pleasant things for cell phone repair? or Is not so pleasant things considered soldering larger joints that require a ton of heat and solder?@ nanofrog Thanks for all the info!! Really appreciate it. Also very much like your setup. Was considering those same tools actually. Actually spoke with a rep from Janel Online. Ironically, when I mentioned weller, he told me a lot of people complain that it breaks down in a year. This whole time I've been thinking of Weller when looking at irons, but just hearing all these stories how it's made in Mexico and how breaks down etc is just disappointing. Because they seem to make very quality tools at not so high prices such as JBC. JBC does look fantastic. Honestly a bit scary because of how expensive it is, and how little I know. If weller would suffice in my line of work, then I would rather get weller, as JBC is crazy expensive. Yeah I do want quality tools that I will use for years, but I don't know if I can go all out like that, especially if it isn't necessary and won't truly make much difference then I'm fine.Do different brands have different high points? Such as would hakko have the better air gun for the price? Weller quality soldering iron for the price? JBC iron tweezers and air gun go for around 3,000. I wonder if they bargain their prices. Would it be good to mix and match though between brands, or would getting a whole set bring the pricing down a bit? Honestly, don't think I would be able to solder components all over the logic board for a while. I think it requires great knowledge and schematic reading and understanding to pin point the faults on the board for replacement. I know quite a few stores here in Vegas, and only a few do this work, customers don't really even require this work either, but I do want to learn this. I think from the time being in my journey I will start off with a quality iron, to do charging ports, as that's the most in high demand. When I get that down, then start bringing dead phones to life with hot air gun/tweezers? I think that would be the best rout to take, as I would probably overwhelm myself too much and be having some tools sitting around for a while because I'm still learning one part. I really do want that WXMP pencil though. Just worried if it would break down in a year...or maybe a JCB iron for now. I will need a DECENT heat gun for heating up glass on phones and separating them, which will be a task in itself on learning, because I hear theyre quite difficult.I'm actually quite surprised no one has said that it would be hard to learn this on my own off Youtube videos. I had a chance to go to college for this 7 years ago, unfortunately I wasn't able to, and now I'm kicking myself because the opportunity that has risen and all the experience I could have gained would have really helped in this field of work. So now it seems I will become a Youtube graduate. From what it seems with your guys responses, it is possible after all. But I do plan on pursuing this business for years to come.Checking what I have now, I have some MG Chemicals no clean solder 60/40 .0032 diam. Plan on getting the 63/37 though. and Mechanic UV curable solder mast (whatever that means, bought these a while back) type LY-uvh900. and some Amtech Flux type RMA -223 UV . MG Chemicals super whick, the only brand I have that you seemed to mention. Do you recommend a .0025 diam solder? I think that's the smallest i've seen, the smaller the better for 0402 type components right or no? Also, leaded, or lead free? I hear lead free is better. I'll be on the lookout for those branded flux,solder you've mentioned though, thanks.@ quarros Thanks a lot for all the informative videos. Come to think of it I actually have a old laptop that doesn't even work. Think it's time to take it apart and play with the components on it, I knew I was saving it for a reason. You recommended Metcal to start, but by start, just wondering, is it because I may damage the dools from lack of experience? Yes I am a beginner, and I guess it is like me driving a ferarri, but I'm wondering, If I am super careful with these tools there's really no way I could break it though right? I would hate to damage such an expensive product from lack of knowledge. But yes, the way I see it, I would like to buy once and buy right. I don't want to buy decent tools to learn off of, then later on upgrade and spend more money. Especially if high quality tools would give me a different feel of soldering I would much rather learn how it flows than learning from just decent tools, especially when I'm going to be spending countless hours practicing and trying to master this, I would much rather master a product I will always use.Also, so it would be more wise to start on larger components, than start practicing on smaller components? Even though I would mostly be doing smaller components? I think the largest soldering job in a cell phone is the charging port, and even then the joints are very small. Also, I'm from Las Vegas, Nevada.Also, is soldering all the same, whether big or large components? Just on a smaller scale? Same for using a hot air gun on large or small components, is it the same, only difference is just different nozzle size, different temp, timing, etc? But as far as techniques, is it all the same really?I ask because I haven't been able to find any videos on cell phone repair really as far as using a hot air gun on small components etc.As of right now I have Vellaman soldering iron, with a knob temp control. Bought it at Frys for $30 dollars.I'm going to use it to practice a bit for a couple weeks, then when I feel I have the basic down, take the big leap and buy something of quality to really start practicing with.

author: jinzo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 01:05:30 pm
content: I was in a similar situation some time ago - but I'm not into phone repair but some bigger (or let's say normal sized) stuff. There're some great advice here (quite something new for me too) and I would like to add something from my personal experience.First be prepared to fail. It happens. Especially when you're learning (that's why it's good to learn on your own devices). If you'll let it get you down you'll have a bad time. The failures I had ranged from the noobish ones I made to the unbelievable "coincidence" type of stuff. Just don't give up!Also take your time when you're doing stuff, don't let the customer or anything else distract you/make you hurry. Even the best people do mistakes when they're in a hurry.Regarding the equipment most has be anwsered, but one nit pick - it's quite important to use the correct tip for the correct job. When I started I thought that the smallest pointy tip I have (I got a cheap second hand system with Weller WSP80) will be the best for smaller soldering I do (eg, soldering some wires to a QFP chip) - oh was I wrong. The small-ish chisel tip is way better. What I'm trying to tell you is that there is a lot of stuff to try out and see for yourself too. I only really looked at the Daves soldering videos then went on and practised - as already mentioned that's probably the best way once you know the basic theory.Good luck!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 08:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amStuff that can cause tips to no longer wet (take solder), such as using it to melt plastic (plastic turns to carbonized crap on the tip, which prevents wetting).Threaded inserts are just a bit of brass that gets pressed into a plastic part that has an inner diameter that's threaded for screws (DIY'er might opt for heat). You tend to see these on better quality DMM battery compartments for example, due to the repeated need to access that area.There are at times, plastic pins/posts molded into a case that are melted into a rivet of sorts, in order to secure a PCB or other part (slide part into place, melt plastic pin to secure, so no fasteners required).Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amWeller's products are made all over the world, not just Mexico. It's the entry level stations (and tips) that come out of Mexico, such as the WES/D51. QC has become variable between all these different manufacturing locations, and some, such as Mexico and Bosnia, have higher failure rates (DOA or at/near the warranty limit) than those from say the US, Japan, or Germany. But even the Mexican made stuff isn't 100% garbage.Their top end stations are made in Germany (WD, WRM, WX). Even here though, you can see where they're cutting corners when you open them up, such as the issues I and others have discussed in other threads (example w/ pics of the internals). Where I've genuinely run into problems from the variable QC, is with the LT series tips (COO = Bosnia). Specifically, the plating isn't consistent, and wears out fast (tips stop wetting, even with proper care and rejuvenation attempts), increasing consumable costs. This may be changing, but only time will tell (they've started engraving their tips, so hopefully it's more than just marketing & tying warranty validation to using Weller's tips). At least there is an alternative source (Plato) for these. The tips for the WX series are all made in Germany (cartridge type & simple plated copper bits), and I've not heard of any complaints with these.The station itself, is still working just fine, though it doesn't get the hours that it would in a professional environment, particularly if it were used for production. So I can't say for sure if it would still be working had that been it's usage.Point is, they're not perfect, and given what they sell for, they need to be pretty damn close IMHO. Value is also a bit lean vs. other brands, which I'll cover shortly.Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amIn terms of differences in quality between tools, that's actually a bit more complicated than one might initially assume. For example, if you're coming from a firestick to any proper temp regulated station, it's a night-and-day difference, even with a Chinese made tool. You'll also easily notice the differences from said Chinese station to a professional station, as the details make a noticeable difference, such as silicone insulated wiring that connects the iron to the station.But once you're comparing professional tools with one another, it can get harder. You may be able to tell, but you start delving into the realm of diminishing returns, particularly when comparing similar technology and features. Value starts to become more subjective than just crunching numbers/comparing features (i.e. comfort comes into play, which is important when using a tool for long periods of time). Brand X may technically be the better performer than Y, but it doesn't feel right in your hand for more than an hour types of things, and the only way to find out, is to use them. Seems minor, but once you find yourself using something that doesn't fit you for 4+hrs a day, it will matter to you. This said, most are fairly comfortable.In my case for example, I don't like the thick/chunky irons (feels like holding a roll of quarters = fatiguing to me), so I prefer the thinner pencil types (FWIW, most of the newer stations seem to be taking this approach; shorter distances between the tip and operator's fingers). There's a technical advantage as well in the form of better/more precise control, which is very important for soldering small component packages IMHO.From the technical perspective (features & measurable performance), lets take a look at say a Hakko FX-951, Weller WD1002, and JBC compact station for example. The FX-951 includes a stand that connects to the base unit for setback purposes included in the box. It also uses newer heating technology (heater + sensor is in the tips, not the iron; JBC is the same, as are the 2x Weller hand pieces that come with the WX2021 <not across their lineup however>). The WD series OTOH, the connectable stand is an option that has to be purchased, and uses simple plated tips. Base MSRP for the WD1001 or WD1002 is already higher than the Hakko, and the stand will set you back another $109. They do sell a kit that includes it for $378, which will save you a few bucks, but it's still more expensive. No optional equipment required for the JBC to fully utilize this feature.In the above case, the Hakko goes for ~$267, the Weller for $378, and the compact JBC equivalent for ~$423. JBC beats the crap out of the others in terms of performance (fastest heating time, ability to push heat into the joint with lowest overshoot,...), and only for a $45 premium over the Weller. Makes it a no-brainer IMHO. The ~$156 difference between it and the Hakko is a harder decision, but JBC offers more tips and better performance to the point it's still worth it to me.Another aspect that's nice, but hard to monetize, would be the ease of changing tips. In the above example, the Weller is a bit more involved (unscrew a metal tube, remove existing tip, insert new profile, re-thread onto iron). With the Hakko and JBC, you just pull it out (rubber pad with Hakko, using the stand with the JBC), and shove another in, and done. Another of those small details that can make things easier and faster for the operator. Not critical, but they can add up to a better user experience in this segment.But what if you're after the least expensive tips, given the actual ability of any of these stations are to make a quality joint?The compromise of a bit more complicated/involved tip change might be an acceptable compromise to you in order to be able to get inexpensive tips (say ~$5 per rather than $15 - 32 per). Comes down to what fits your needs/requirements.In my case, the Hakko wasn't being manufactured yet, and the JBC was more expensive than the Weller WD1001. Then I took into account the lower cost tips for the Weller (didn't know about the QC issues then), so I opted for what I thought was to be the lower TCO (both can make great joints, both offer enough SMT tips to be very useful, both use pencil type irons).Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I should have opted for the JBC (T245 iron), despite the higher costs, particularly regarding tips for the improved performance for what's turned out to be more money in the end for the equipment (added the WSP80 & stand later). Fewer tips for the JBC would have evened out with what I've had to spend for 2x irons I suspect. Live and learn...That said, it's not like what I have is like trying to solder with a rusty nail held in a pair of pliers, heated with a blow torch by any means, but the JBC does have a noticeable edge that would be nice to have.Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amYes they do.JBC is flat out better for irons, tweezers, and hot air IMHO. For desoldering equipment, I've not had access, but from what little I've heard, isn't all that wonderful. So Hakko and Weller would likely have an advantage here.JBC isn't cheap, but it's actually very similar cost wise with Weller. But considering it's better performance, and the fact that you don't have to pay extra to enable all the features in some cases (depends on exact unit), it offers a better value IMHO.Assuming you're after top performance (can handle the costs), I'd go with:Iron = JBCTweezer = JBCHot Air = JBCDesolder = Hakko (their consumables are of very high quality <thick plating>, and not horribly priced)Regarding desoldering equipment however, I don't really see a need for it for SMT work. Wick will take care of it very quickly and easily, so you don't need to fork over a pile of cash for one IMHO. Now if you're doing massive amounts of thru-hole desoldering, that's when a dedicated tool will come in handy. For occasional PTH (plated thru-hole), wick and a desolder pump will do just nicely.Tips have already been mentioned regarding costs of consumables, but nozzles, filters, cleaning pipes,..., also need to be considered where applicable. Generally speaking, cartridge/all-in-one tips tend to be more expensive than a plated copper slug, but in the case of Weller, their simple plated tips may cost just as much as a cartridge for another brand. Hakko comes to mind for example, as their basic profiles for the T18 series used in the FX-951 cost about the same as some of the simple plated tips offered by Weller (~$15 per for the Hakko T18's, and ~$12.50 per for the XT series used in the WXP120 iron). JBC's tips will run more (~$27 - 32 for most basic profiles, but from what I understand, last a good while, especially using lead based solder).Desoldering stations can get more expensive than irons for consumables, just so you're aware (more required, and some can be short-lived by comparison).Hot air nozzles are more of a buy once product (other than loss/damage), but they can add up fast, especially as they can run ~$60 & up per.Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amIt will definitely take time to learn, especially if you get into diagnosing actual electronic component failures. Just take your time, and have fun in the process, or you're much more likely to get frustrated and give up.Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amA good YT video isn't really any different than sitting in a class IMHO, other than the inability to ask questions.Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amNot a fan of buying supplies from eBay, but if you can experiment before using it on something critical to see if it will do, that's fine if you're willing to take the risk (dud product, so waste of money).IIRC, some that have tried the Mechanic brand of solder paste indicate it works, but don't know about the solder mask. As per buying flux off of eBay, you're likely to get a fake rather than the real deal. Lots of faked Amtech products out there, so be careful. Best to buy solder and flux from an authorized retailer IMHO to avoid getting fakes or old stockMG chemicals sells small bottles of liquid rosin fluxthat's quite good, and you can use it in aneedle bottle,refillable flux penor brush (i.e.Bonkote BON-102), or even apply it with a syringe or brush.SRA solderis another source for refillable pens and bottles of flux. Not sure who they're getting it from, but is decent quality from what I've heard.Regarding solder alloy, stick with lead based alloys. Flows much better than lead-free, has more friendly fluxes (less aggressive on PCB's & parts, less toxic to the operator), and is harder to visually determine if you have a good joint or not. So most of us here it seems, dislike lead-free with a passion and avoid it if we have the choice.I'd also recommend staying away from water soluble flux, as it's corrosive (will damage components and PCB's if you don't get it cleaned off fast enough). Talking hours here, so rather short window vs. rosin or no-clean that can be left on the board without issues in many cases (there are cases where even these must be cleaned, but it's usually done for appearance sake rather than technical reasons).As per wire size:.032" is a good general purpose size for tinning wire and doing PTH..020" is much better for controlling how much solder is applied for SMD parts (.015" & .010" is also available)..025" is sort of a happy medium IMHO for both PTH and SMD (larger packages; say 0402 and smaller, you'll want a smaller diameter wire size), so this is what I tend to buy. Keeps the number of wire sizes down (thus costs), and for larger stuff, you can fold it over and twist it with consistent results (i.e. tinning a 10AWG wire). Can never go smaller of course, so if you need smaller, you'll have to buy some. Also note, that smaller diameters cost more than larger diameters (same alloy, flux, flux %).Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amI suspect he was trying to get you a professional unit at a more attractive price. And given how Metcal's work (Curie Point), you can't screw up the temperature, as there's no temp setting to adjust. It's set by the tip being used (they offer 3x temps in the same tip profiles; 600F, 700F, and 800F). Makes it much simpler to start, but you don't have quite as much flexibility either IMHO, and will cost you more for tips if you need more than one temp for any particular profile (tip shape/size).I also agree with buy once and be done if it's financially possible, and you're going to stick with it, as it's less expensive in the long run. But this isn't always possible due to budget issues, or wise if the person might not stick with electronics (i.e. frustration kicks in, and it either collects dust, or end up sold on eBay for a loss).If you're going to go the buy-once route, you might want to just start with a JBC DD (2 port modular station) running a T245 iron and PA120 tweezers (these can even be added later). As you learn, you can go from there regarding a hot air station, or even desolder station should you discover you're really into PTH, and are scavenging all of your parts rather than buying them (cheap stuff, not rare, expensive gems that are worth their weight in gold should you find one).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 08:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amGenerally speaking, Yes.Start on larger packages, though it doesn't *have* to be PTH parts. This way, you learn how to make a proper joint, and what you learn is applicable to smaller packages. The reason for this, is the smaller packages are more difficult to do because of their size. You'd be surprised how much of a challenge this can be, as it's not only harder to see without magnification (extra cost), it's also very easy to screw up things like how much solder is applied to the joint.Quote from: Levitation on February 05, 2014, 05:44:54 amIron is the same, as are tweezers in regard to how you use it (different size component packages will mean different amounts of solder, what tip to use, possibly different solder wire size though), but entirely different from hot air. Less precision with hot air as it's not direct contact like an iron or tweezers, and if the air flow is high enough, it can actually blow small parts right off the board.Had to split this one, as it was too long.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 10:21:19 pm
content: If you plan on repairing cracks, loose circuit board clips, even rebuilding a corner of a case, you will probably use both your soldering iron and hot air. Although the electronics is what the forum is about repair of a cell phone may just be a matter of replacing/repairing a case. You may also want to head into the junk box and make a few phones up for a particular customer. I expect you to become quite skilled at this if you are doing it for a family business. Making money with nothing but what is in a junk box is good.As for metal inserts and melting plastic is because it's fast and secure. Old plastics become brittle force fitting inserts can crack plastic.As for tweezers, in your situation it would be wiser to use a pair of soldering irons or a special iron tips for removal small devices or just use hot air I do it all the time. They are not needed for install. Then for anything larger use a reflow station. That is really the only way to go. Yes you can pay 10's of thousands for a big brandname station but there are a few in the 600-1200 price range that are OK for your application. Stations will have a preheater that can do double duty for other tasks. I personally prefer a total IR machine but the hot air stations seem to be more popular with most people.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 10:35:30 pm
content: Where to start....Please forgive me if I will sound a little patronising but I'm afraid I lack the necessary knowledge in English to properly express myself in this case.Well for starters you have to understand that cellphone repairs are one of the most demanding, type of work for soldering. It requires you to work most precisely, understand the physics /mechanics behind it perfectly, and have the soldering techniques burnt into your hand. Because you are working with the smallest type of components available. (And I haven't even gone to the BGA rework territory) To have an analogy you are now an elementary schooler who aspires to have a University diploma. Which is nice and very commendable in it self but it takes a long road to get there. This may sound bad from the first read but fortunately for you the necessary time to attain a "Diploma" in this analogue is entirely up to you. If you dedicate yourself to it than you can attain this knowledge very soon. In this particular field practice and equipment makes all the difference.Just don't try to switch gears and skip a few steps if you want to really learn this and do quality work. First start with trough hole soldering do that for a few month than start to switch to SMD.As for soldering Iron. there was a reasoning behind why I suggested the Metcal stations but I didn't wanted to make a more humongous post than it already was.One part of the reason was the human part: When you're starting it is better to have a soldering station that don't have adjustable temperature. Why? Because those a stations are already set to the optimum tip temperature for almost all cases (excluding the rare real temperature sensitive components that you don't encounter very often) and because of that if solder is not melting properly you don't have the temptation to just ramp up the temperature and damaging the components in the process. Instead you're forced to try to understand why it is happening and how can you prevent it (the proper tip for the job, not getting enough surface for correct heat transfer, not enough flux, etc,etc) All of this together help you to get one factor out of the equation and making it easier to solve. And these Irons are one of the bests that you can get, and there is a reason why these are used in production environments.The second part is technical : A soldering iron is either using a resistive element for heating or an inductive one. A resistive type is normaly composed a handpiece that holds the heating element and a tip that you pull over it. Because of that the changing of tips usually more difficult and time consuming, and the reaction times for re heating the tip when heat is drawn form it aka soldering, are usually slower because the sensing elements are usually in the station not in the tip, or handpiece. The inductive ones are self contained units, meaning the heating elements and the temperature sensing parts are already built in the tip and because of that it is capable almost instantaneous recovery when heat is drawn from it, also it has much smaller overshoot, but that is mostly depending on the quality of the station and not the heating type.As you might have guessed the Metcal is an inductive type and because of that I said it is a much more reliable station because it is itself a simple RF generator with not so much controlling circuity, and most of the magic is inside the tip. Also changing the tip on it is simply pulling out the current one and sliding in a new one.This station is a very good choice for starting and also quite excellent when you're proficient in soldering so my advice is to get one for now start using it a lot learn with it, and if you're later on decide that is not the one for the job you want to do than sell it (well to be honest I don't think you will ever want to do that but I'm not you) even if you're getting a very bad deal and lose a 100 bucks on it it is a hundred well spent because it will teach you the basics correctly and that will stay with you later on.As for the WXMP pencil I very much advise you to PM M. András in the forum and get his advice on it. What I heard from him is that the pencil is a very bad construction. Right after the finger hold it has a hollow metal tube that holds the tip and that tube has almost no mechanical stress resistance.I would write more but it is getting late here and I still have to read what nanofrog wrote quite thoroughly. So in respect of his wast experience I stop and continue when I have the strength to read process and properly respond.One last word: Welcome to the beautiful world of soldering! I hope you will like it here

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 04:49:39 am
content: My suggestion is also to start slow but no doubt you will have a supply of phones to play with. Start with card holders and wires, headphone and mic jacks. Take a scrap working phone remove a part clean it and put it back on, then test to see if you destroyed the thing. I'm not saying you should remove any chips at first but certainly don't be afraid to. If the thing is going in the garbage anyway practice with it. Laptops are also very fun to play with chip wise. Again if you can find a working one then you can test afterwards.When it comes to your mom business, fixing a headphone jack (for example) is easy once practiced. Don't promise a customer you can fix a problem rather fix up complete units and exchange or sell them. The business makes more money and that's the point of the exercise.Even very simple repairs can mean profit.You may have noticed I didn't mention any test instruments, a DMM is a good one to have (for testing batteries and such) but for the rest of it stick to functional tests, use the phone and make sure everything works.

author: Levitation
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 01:30:29 am
content: @nanofrog Just wow!! My mind is absolutely blown. Truly a golden post. VERY informative! THANK YOU! I cant thank you enough!! If you need anything cell phone related, or questions, let me know! I got you! I've been researching for weeks, and you pretty much laid out all the right answers that I've been looking for. I can tell you're a master at this, and to be getting the right information and such detail from you like this is really great, and awesome of you. Thanks!!Now my mind is pretty much set on JBCI checked out that T245 Iron. The T210 Iron compared to it looks slightly smaller. And what's been catching my attention out of all the JBC irons is the Nt105 nano Soldering iron, it says : The NAST station is the best solution to repair very small-sized components at high precision such as chips 0402, 0201, 01005, etc. Which looking on the iPhone board, definetely has a lot of small components like this. Just has me thinking, does this mean that I could get by just on the iron alone for ic chip replacement? And wouldn't need the Hot air, for right now at least? The largest component I'd be soldering I Think is the charging port in cell phones. I like the NT105 a lot, because how small it is, and seems perfect for working on cell phones, but then I'm thinking I don't know too much of the affects of having too small of an iron/tip. I don't want to possibly get it, and then doing a charging port it put's the tip or iron under too much stress or the tip is not large enough to make it more comfortable for the amount of solder it would require etc, because it's designed for very small components, or would it really not matter much? I think the charging port is still pretty small though so maybe not that big of a difference like working on a laptop. What do you think? Maybe get something in between of the T245/Nt105, the T210? Also, before I got into the cell phone business, I was more into computers. Been more into computers my whole life. So if I'm able to solder, I do want to also do computer repair. So I'm guessing this would require a larger iron tip than the nano soldering iron. But my main focus would be cell phones. Maybe on computers I can get by on a regular decent sized iron? Pretty sure the nano iron would be effective on laptops too. Well what do you think? If the nano can get by on ALL soldering repairs on a small logic board of cell phones, including charging port, I'd rather get that. Because it's also capable for working on 0402, 0201, 01005, etc. Which is great. A friend of mine who goes to school for this, as far as he knows talking to him the other day, working on anything smaller than 0402 he believes is only possible with Infrared type equipment. Which I find interesting, because apparently JBC say's its possible with their iron.I also like the Nt105 because it comes with micro tweezers..Anyways check this out, these are the PCBs for the newer phones.iPhone 5s:http://www.isuppli.com/PublishingImages/Press%20Releases/Apple-iPhone-5S_PCB-bottom.jpgiPhone 5:http://thuyduongmobile.com/upload/foto-mainboard-iphone-5-pcb-2.jpgGalaxy s4:http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/recentteardowns/files/2013/04/Galaxy-S4-internal-05-front-side.jpg?file=2013/04/Galaxy-S4-internal-05-front-side.jpgGalaxy s4 charging port:http://cdn3.volusion.com/z5euy.vk2jo/v/vspfiles/photos/SMi9500CHG1-2.jpg%3F1391266209What do you think? Would nano get by on all soldering all the components for these boards? If it's small enough to handle the smallest components, and large enough to handle the biggest, I think that's my best bet. What do you think?Here it is:http://www.jbctools.com/nast-nano-rework-product-11-category-1-menu-1.html@quarrosThanks a lot for the info! Just curious which Soldering iron do you use??@ pickle9000THanks a lot! Yeah, theres no way I will be doing this kind of work for other people, until I've become experienced fixing my OWN phones.@ jinzo Good to know, makes me feel better. Yes I should be prepared to fail, and I'll try not to kick myself so much for it when I do.This forum is truly unbelievable though. A lot of helpful members!

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 03:00:28 am
content: When a phone goes bad, the problem is generally not the tiny 01005 resistors or capacitors, as they are fairly resilient and have no active components, but usually a component like a touch screen control ASIC or a lithium battery charger chip.Unfortunately for third-party repair servicepeople (e.g. you) these ICs are often programmed at the factory and would require you to not only identify the damaged component and source a replacement inexpensively, but also figure out how to program it (which is pretty much impossible given you don't have the code in the first place).IMO tweezers aren't a necessity, and you could probably get away with a hot-air gun, old Weller iron, and lots of flux.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 05:18:01 pm
content: Quote from: Levitation on February 07, 2014, 01:30:29 amYou're quite welcome.The T245 is their general purpose sized iron (they offer an incredible number of tip sizes/profiles), while the T210 is aimed for smaller SMT packages. That said, you can do the small stuff with the T245 as well so long as you have an appropriate tip cartridge installed. One nice thing with JBC, is both irons will work interchangeably (i.e. you buy a station with a T245, you can just plug the T210 in; station has the code, and both irons use the same stand). Saves you some money, as stands can get surprisingly expensive. Makes getting the second iron (without tips), a ~$60 upgrade based on Janel's pricing.Nano is aimed at the smallest of packages and meant to be used under magnification (i.e. 0402 & smaller), so will be quite limited as to what you'll actually be able to do with it. IC's for example, would most likely have to be soldered pin-by-pin (didn't really see a dedicated drag soldering tip available, though they do offer a single hoof shape), as where you'd be able to use a drag soldering technique with a T245 for example with an appropriate tip (faster, and more consistent results across all the pins once you have the technique down IMHO).It's nice, but I'd skip the Nano if it where me, as the T245 and PA120 tweezers can do quite a lot. You can always add a T210 if you find the boards are consistently too tight to fit the T245 in, even with the appropriate tip.Better still, the second iron can be added for a reasonable cost if it should come to that (relative to what this sort of equipment goes for). For example, Weller hasstreet pricesof at least $100 just to add an iron, and usually requires another stand, which sell for similar money as the irons. Much better value proposition with the JBC in such an instance IMHO.Quote from: scientist on February 07, 2014, 03:00:28 amHot air would certainly do as well, but not as precise on such densely packed boards. An iron with the right tip (i.e. bifurcated shape), could pull off passives as well (along with a pair of regular electronics tweezers).Where hot tweezers comes more into play though IMHO, is when performing diagnostics. Faster to get a passive lifted to take a measurement, and speed comes into play when it's your living. All without causing any damage of course.Don't know about you, but I shudder at the thought of doing a trace repair on that tight a board, especially if it's because I screwed up and damaged it.For a hobbyist, I don't see hot tweezers as critical/necessary at all.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 08:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: Levitation on February 07, 2014, 01:30:29 amI have 3 soldering station 4 if you count hot air too.One I baught locally (Hungary) HQ-Solder 30http://www.europe-audio.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=6927That was my first station way back although it is a shitty station compared to well pretty much everything, it is still usable and have a sizable thermal mass. I use it for non critical soldering that I don't want to waste my other stations for.Secondly I use a HAKKO FX-888It was my general use for everything iron for the longest time. Solid good performer for any general soldering. Nowadays it is my secondary backup iron.Thirdly I use a Metcal MX500I bought it last year as an experiment since it was cheap (around 170 USD) but it turned out to be one of my greatest investments. It is now my most used iron for everything form small to large. Ironically thanks to that I'm very much tempted to scrap the other two in the near future and get either a small JBC or more likely an ERSA Icon That my friend showed me.nanofrog: Hats of to you friend. Makes me feel my post was totally unnecessary...Oh well I was dead tired that day anyways.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 12:52:15 am
content: Quote from: quarros on February 07, 2014, 08:40:00 pmMultiple points of view can open up options, such as alternative brands of equipment, or even present other ways of thinking. So not unnecessary, and nothing to be embarrassed about.I went into a lot of detail given how expensive equipment is, even in the US. I'm just glad I don't live in Europe, where the pricing is a lot worse.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 07:25:28 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 08, 2014, 12:52:15 amYou're right. Here buying new soldering equipment is incredibly pricey. But that also makes you really appreciate used equipment for its real value, instead of the usual: Ewww its used I don't want it.I have a little fun fact for you that you might not know.The ERSA Icon station that I talked about is a powerful little beast and it has almost the same reaction speed as my Metcal or any JBC and able to pump out even more power than the others, that was a real head scratcher since it is using a resistive heating element. So my friend tore down one handpiece and what he found inside was amazing. Inside the handpiece it was full of SMD controlling circuitry! Which is in it self was incredible since that handpiece is smaller than the Metcal or JBC handpieces. So those crafty Germans figured out not only what kind of a material can be used for the resistive element so it can reach operating temperature in seconds (really without a tip screwed on the element reached yellow glow in a second) but also: Control the tip from the station? Screw that we build our own right into the handpiece.So it seems that there are exceptions from the usual rule of thumb: inductive vs resistive rule.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 03:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: quarros on February 08, 2014, 07:25:28 amI don't mind used at all, so long as it has the necessary parts to make it work.See a lot of station bases for example, but the handpieces and/or stands are usually missing (lost or damaged these bits?).Tends to make used too expensive if you can still get the missing parts IMHO. And given the prices are better here, it's not that difficult to decide to spend $100 on a brand new entry level station (i.e. WES/D51 or Hakko FX-888D; real stations, not light dimmers running a firestick). Past this of course, it gets expensive, and quick.Perhaps the missing parts issues for used soldering equipment is different in Europe?In my case, I have a mix of new and used for equipment and even hand tools. Got some very good deals buying used, and don't regret those purchases one bit.Quote from: quarros on February 08, 2014, 07:25:28 amHeard a lot of good things about Ersa from other forum members, but they're not common here in the US.Using the iCon Nano as a comparison, it's very similar to the Weller WD1 I have (it also has electronics in the handle portion of the iron, though not as extensive as the iCon iron image in the catalog). Heating time claimed by Ersa is 9 seconds for this model, so it's in line with the WSP80 I have (~10s to 600F/315C). Both are 80W irons. WMP is similar (can be a second or so faster), but the tips have less mass than those of the WSP80 (which aren't heavy either).Took a look at their catalog, and they seem to use ceramic PTC heating elements (i.e. RDS80, Analog 60). Not sure if this is still what they're using on the iCon models (didn't say), but if it works well, other than curiosity, I don't think it really matters.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 04:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: quarros on February 08, 2014, 07:25:28 amThe ERSAs are great soldering stations, I wonder why theyare so relatively unknown in the U.S.But what Icon is it, you talked about, is it the mid-rangei-con 1 with the 150W i-TOOL iron?The Icon line reaches from the 140Euro low end pico,the mid-range i-con 1 and i-con 2 up to the Icon Vario 4as a absolute high end soldering station for 2600EuroAt the moment I use a DIGITAL 2000A with an 20WSMD Micro tool iron together with a DIGITAL 60Aand the 60W Tech Tool iron to solder larger parts.But in the near future I will try to sell the DIGITAL 60Aand buy a Icon Vario 2 with the 150W i-TOOLand the 200W i-TOOL Air iron.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 05:45:32 pm
content: Quote from: Frost on February 08, 2014, 04:49:58 pmTotal lack of distributors. Can't get it from the usual sources most companies or individuals would purchase from.Checking Ersa's site, it seems they operate one location to get anything from here (Kurtz North America), and no other distributors listed whatsoever. Not good for generating sales IMHO, so maybe they're less interested in hand soldering equipment here due to competition (Weller, Hakko, JBC, Pace, Zephyrtronics, Metcal/OKi, Thermaltronics), and focus more on the larger, automated equipment for production work.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 07:01:33 pm
content: Quote from: Frost on February 08, 2014, 04:49:58 pmNo it the one my friend has is the i-CON2 dual station but that is basically the same and yes it has the 24V 150W i-Tool and that is with the "magic".I think the reason why ERSA is not well known in the US is the same reason why you don't see many Hameg there. Simply German products are not really a big seller there and because of that the distributors are not willing to put much effort in marketing them and they tend to be more pricier than the competition.Another possible reason is the tip changing mechanism. Professionals got lazy because of the ease tip changes that the JBC and Metcal offers. So even tough it is great and stable, capable station it is not as compelling as the competition. Even my friend is using his Metcal and JBC much more than his ERSA because for general everyday use it is much more convenient (and fast). But to note when it gets to something critical or sensitive equipment then ERSA all the way. Or at least that was the situation until last monthBut since I'm on the same side of the ocean I cant really say why just guessingnanofrog: They certainly not using the same element. I have never seen a PTC heat up that fast, really it is like boom and it is there.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 07:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: quarros on February 08, 2014, 07:25:28 amThe small PCB inside the iron handpiece also got a motion detector for the standby function. I've got the i-CON2 with an iTool (150W pen-sized iron) and the chipTool (tweezers). One of it's great features is the selectable control loop (high overshoot, mid-range overshoot, no overshoot). It's a great soldering station! Similar stations from Weller are about 20% more expensive, at least here in Germany. If you got a local ERSA distributor I really recommend to check out the i-CON stations.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 07:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 08, 2014, 05:45:32 pmAh ok, that's the same like it is for the Metcal, here in germany

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 07:43:25 pm
content: Quote from: quarros on February 08, 2014, 07:01:33 pmThat's why I like the Micro Tool iron for SMD work.The tips can be changed with only a pull and push mechanism.There's a special pliers to pull the tip out and push another in,so you can change them within seconds.You can use the Micro Tool iron also together with a i-con 1/2 stationand I think, the new Icon Vario should drive the Micro Tool too.

author: Levitation
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 09, 2014, 05:48:10 am
content: @ Scientist that's the beauty of having phones for parts. You can take the Ic's off them and put them on another phone. With iPhones it is tricky because the security, baseband versions and such need to match up etc, but samsungs are more are easier from I've heard. There's also special "boxes/tools" that can flash these phones. Literally bring a absolutely hard bricked phone back to life, with a special box called the Riff box and soldering. I can't wait to start doing that. So far I've only been using this box that can flash phones that are soft bricked, also unlock etc.@nanofrog, thank you. It seems I am 99% set on the T245 Iron now. I love the wide variety of tips it uses. I also love that it's a lot cheaper than the nano, lol. Do you think the T245 can work on 0402s, though? And would a T245 iron be able to work under a microscope? But yes general purpose soldering with so many tips does seem a lot betterI still don't know much about components. It seems like there's general components that work on most or all PCBs, and IC's that are specific for that hardware that contain software? Is that how it works? Is there some guide or online PDF that explains all this, or a book? I'd like to check it out. If you or anyone knows any please recommendThanks!@ quarros Interesting. I'm seeing a lot of people talk about this ERSA Icon since you've brought it up. I checked it out, it looks really nice.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2014, 05:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: Levitation on February 09, 2014, 05:48:10 amYes and Yes with the right tip.Quote from: Levitation on February 09, 2014, 05:48:10 amPassives would be things such as resistors, capacitors, and diodes. There are also active components, such as transistors, voltage regulators, ... sorts of things that are common. IC's fall into the latter category as well. These can be referred to as jellybean parts, particularly those that don't require any code. Just wire it up properly to make the circuit work.Then you start getting into user-configurable/programmable IC's (i.e. contain a ROM or are tied to one) that store the necessary code to make it work. Still common off the shelf components (COTS), so anyone can buy them without licensing/IP violation issues. FPGA's and micro controllers would be such examples. Just have to create the hardware design and code needed to make it work as intended (makes them very flexible).There are also custom IC's, which are designed for or by a specific manufacturer that they have made for them (or in some cases, can also manufacture the chips themselves in-house, such as Samsung). These are specifically designed for the products they're used in, and not made available to competing companies or general public. Apple's A6 chip for example, is based on an ARM processor design they've licensed, but has extra stuff added to make it an ideal component for the iPhone and iPad tablets they're used in. Cuts down on the number of separate components, which can save on costs, can reduce power consumption, and take less PCB real estate for the completed design (i.e. potentially allows for a smaller product). This is viable due to the number of units produced, as it keeps the per unit cost within an acceptable level. It also makes a device that contains them a PITA to fix compared to designs that are based on jellybean parts, as it's much more difficult to get the parts or the code from any source other than a working donor device (at least the part you need).Hopefully this is enough to clear at least some of the confusion (tried to keep it as short and simple as possible).

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2014, 06:03:52 pm
content: You can do 0402s and probably 01005s with a sharpened Radioshack iron, if you've got the skills.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2014, 04:36:23 pm
content: Quote from: scientist on February 10, 2014, 06:03:52 pmtinning + iron reflow for the win. that and something to brace your hands/arms against unless you're super steady.