What would you buy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 12:29:28 am
content: I hate "what should I buy" threads. But then, I'm sure there are like 6 of you who have the PERFECT answer for me in this VERY situation, so here goes.I'm in the market for a new DMM, especially now that my U1253A is totally kaput, indefinitely. (For reference, that was a 50k count electronics meter with good PC software for data logging). Until now, that and an 87V have served me well. Unfortunately, the 87V isn't as much of an electronics meter as it gets credit for, and is WAY behind in feature set. To replace it, I am looking at either bench or handheld meters. It needs some kind of data logging or PC interface. 50k count is minimum if handheld. It'd be nice to upgrade to a 5.5 or 6.5 digit bench meter.Budget is $500, ish. I'd like to spend much less if handheld, I COULD spend a bit more if bench, but it'd be a stretch. In the handheld market, I'm kind of looking at either a Fluke 287 for around $400, or the Uni-T UT181A, since it's a STEAL on AliExpress. Of course, I really want something that works well and reliably. At $270 for the UT181A for what it claims to be, I'm almost willing to gamble and maybe end up with a 287 as well. But I don't love the idea of paying a ton extra for the fluke software and PC connection. For $80 for the fluke connect dongle, if it "just works" and "well" for, for example, monitoring microcontroller sleep current, I might be willing to pay the extra.In the bench market, what I'd REALLY like is a keysight 34460A. Ticks all the boxes with extra precision. But I don't have a grand to spend. If I could find one at a steal, I'd be willing to break the budget, but it can't be 2x. The 34401A, used on eBay, is a serious contender - it can be had for $500. But it doesn't satisfy the more modern conveniences, to the extent that I don't think I can go for it.Does anyone have any super obvious "Just get X, you won't regret it!" recommendations?

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 12:37:26 am
content: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-U1252A-With-Carrying-Case/292292267150?hash=item440dfa0c8e:g:p7wAAOSwXXxZPdz9Also. Before you buy, ask him if he has any B left or coming in soon. He might be getting U1273 also. So ask.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:18:40 am
content: Nmori has a few posts here. $170 for paypal & friends for the A models.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bunch-of-keysight-u1252b-meters-around/550/What is the difference between the A and B? Just blue and orange cases? Been a while.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:24:06 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on November 07, 2017, 01:18:40 amBlue vs orange. Some firmware stuff. If I recall correctly A does not have low path filter on by default, B has it on by default. There might be few other things. I bought a couple of B from him before he even got A in stock so I never really dug into it.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:05:18 am
content: The 34401A can be had for cheaper than $500 if you have patience. There are plenty more good bench options at decent enough prices if you can get away with 5.5 digits. Can also vouch for nmori & the u1252a/b meters

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:07:49 am
content: See, this is why I askIn any event, I'm still potentially interested in some additional new hardware. The 287 feature set with on-board logging is still pretty attractive, as is the idea of a higher spec bench meter. It seems the Siglent SDM3065x (http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=5211&T=2&tid=37) is trying ever so hard to push into my price range for my ideal bench meter feature set - the trend display might almost sort of be what I'm after? Does anyone have anything to say about that unit one way or the other?

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:09:37 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on November 07, 2017, 02:05:18 amA 34401A cheaper than $500 might be worth it to me, but it's still not what I'd ultimately like. I can certainly get away with 5.5 digits, but it's sort of a question of minimizing downward pressure on what I can do quickly without fuss. Definitely following up with nmori though - that would take a bit of pressure off the final decision.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:33:01 am
content: I understand. The great thing about nmori is that his or her meters are all new old stock, so they at least haven't been abused by someone else. Condition is often a bit of a gamble with ebay, but nmori has a solid record with people on this forum. I have no experience with the 287 or the Siglent, but both have been extensively discussed here previously.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 02:43:51 am
content: Quote from: alexwhittemore on November 07, 2017, 02:07:49 amBe sure to check out reviews about that Siglent model, like the one made by The Signal Path. I was interested in it, but it looks to be unbearably slow. It may look like a Keysight, but doesn't quack like one for sure.People that own the 287 report that it's a good logging meter, but not that great as an actual multimeter. It's not as convenient as a more traditional multimeter, due to the menus and interface.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:11:28 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 02:43:51 amThe more research I do, the more it seems like the proper call is to get a U1252A/B and the bluetooth dongle for mobile. Loathe though I am to give them any more money, I guess I can take solace in it being new old stockAs for bench meters, I guess I'm just saving up for the keysight :/

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:14:16 am
content: Quote from: alexwhittemore on November 07, 2017, 03:11:28 amPlease, be sure to check for yourself. Some people can't live with it, while others don't mind at all. In regards to the bench meters, there are plenty of other options out there.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:17:49 am
content: Consider a Brymen BM869S. It can display 500,000 in some functions. It has a base display of 50,000, dual display, 0.02% basic accuracy, and has the option of a USB cable. I a a bit biased but I consider it one of the better buys in multimeters.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:21:37 am
content: Quote from: alexwhittemore on November 07, 2017, 03:11:28 amIf you decide to get one for Android (U1177A), let me know, if I can ship it to you in just padded envelop, then I can sell you one or more for about 45-47 USD.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:24:54 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 07, 2017, 03:17:49 amPrice?Software?Remember, OP already had the '53 model, they are familiar with functionality, have the software and for under 200 USD can get very similar device so that they don't need to learn a new meter or setup and learn new software.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:25:29 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 07, 2017, 03:17:49 amI don't think I've ever heard anyone being disappointed by the BM869S, other than the silly backlight.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:26:44 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on November 07, 2017, 03:24:54 amThe price heavily depends on your location. In the US it can be expensive, in the EU it's rather cheap. Software isn't stupidly expensive either.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:39:28 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on November 07, 2017, 03:24:54 amFWIW, the software kinda sucks. The old Agilent GUI Data Logger is functional and not much more. The newer benchvue is freemium, but I also couldn't get it to work last time I tried it with this meter, so I'm far from wedded to it.The mobile software at least LOOKS pretty good, though. That's even more ideal in most of my use cases.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:40:54 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 03:26:44 amThat's what seems like it'd get me. The price doesn't seem that attractive after converting to dollars and shipping.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:31:06 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 03:25:29 amSilly backlight? Do you mean the maximum 30 second on time?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:17:21 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 02:43:51 amIt need be pointed out SP's review was 2 years agoandnot of the SDM3065X.There is no lagginess in any of the SDM3000X range meters running with late firmware.

author: Andrey_irk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:10:44 am
content: If I wanted a handheld meter, I wouldn't be looking for anything more than 100$. Didn't really need to measure something with significant accuracy in the field. 0.3%-0.5% is enough.As for 500$ you'll be better off spending it on a bench meter. Although in this price range I would buy a used or even broken one as I would be able to repair and calibrate it if necessary.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 11:41:24 am
content: I just bought one of these which I'm monumentally happy with. It's 50,000 count only but that's enough for me at least. It's no 34401A but really how many people actually need one of them?http://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/Digital_Meters/Benchtop_Digital_Multimeters/GDM-8342_GDM-8341Mini-teardown here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/quick-gw-instek-gdm-8341-bench-dmm-teardown-review/It's not handheld though. I couldn't find a handheld with the features I wanted and price I wanted to pay.Handheld I'm going to grab a Keysight U1241C in a couple of weeks which covers the less precise use cases plus utility value.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 05:32:37 pm
content: Here is a 34401A for $350--https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-34401A-6-Digit-Digital-Multimeter-Agilent/152772494340?hash=item2391f34404:g:YOgAAOSwFyhZ~MWk30 day return and it says tested and working.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:18:33 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2017, 11:41:24 amWhy did you pick the GW-Instek over, say, a Rigol DM30XX or one of the aforementioned Siglents? Admittedly, the teardown pictures do look good. They're not cutting corners.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:20:03 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 07, 2017, 07:17:21 amI stand corrected. I see the X range has gone a little more Rigol with its design.I don't seem to be able to find a SDM3055X model. Is that correct?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 06:20:03 pmWhen the X designator was given to Siglent equipment ranges, the DMM's and AWG enclosure bumpers were changed so units can be stood on either end without any damage to controls or connectors and also indexing spigots were added so they could be stacked more safely. The Siglent websites while not listing 3055 as an X model shows the new X case bumpers fitted whereas previously they were quite different.There's no reason why they shouldn't have an X added except for possible market confusion.The image below shows my real early SDM3055 (without the new case bumpers) sandwiched between 3065X and 3045X (top).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 07, 2017, 06:52:56 pmIt seems to me the front panel is also different in the X series. The non X series has a flat front panel, while the X series has this Rigol-ish bevel around part of the perimeter. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I like the look of it. Maybe the threat of Keysight taking action got a bit too real

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:31:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 07:12:19 pmCorrect, there are minor differences to the early 3055 models.Again from the SDM3055 thread:Old 3055 in the middle of the stack.Latest Siglent SDM3055 webpage image:

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:01:14 pm
content: Hold on, you're saying it's still called a SDM3055, but it's actually the new faster model with bevelled edges? That's not very convenient, especially considering most vendors don't appear to update their images.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2017, 11:41:24 amWhy did you pick the GW-Instek over, say, a Rigol DM30XX or one of the aforementioned Siglents? Admittedly, the teardown pictures do look good. They really don't seem to be cutting corners.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:24:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 08:01:14 pmYes, no.It's exactly the same model SDM3055 with an X facelift, same internals and much more mature firmware to speed it along.Vendors unlike the manufacturers don't commonly have permanent webmasters to keep their websites fully up to date although I've even had to push Siglent along to keep their imagery correct too.For instance, just a firmware update that changes the GUI can make the front panel webpage image obsolete and the product is therefore misrepresented.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:52:12 pm
content: Just want to pop in and say, this is a very informative and helpful thread, thanks for all the info

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 09:24:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 07, 2017, 08:14:37 pmBecause the Rigol has a shitty reputation and I wanted a VFD for best contrast.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 09:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2017, 09:24:53 pmCould you elaborate? It looks like an alright deal to me, and I'm definitely considering it against the Siglent. the VFD/basic LCD is actually something I'm hoping to avoid, since the full color tft offers a lot of feature benefits like trend chart.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 09:38:35 pm
content: Quote from: alexwhittemore on November 07, 2017, 08:52:12 pmOne of the things we see often is how quickly a review can date.Today's instruments are so much more processor controlled where firmware changes do make substantial difference to performance of the HW.This is where this forum is great, we can correct what was stated in a review when firmware gets changed as any review is just a snapshot in time of how good, or not, an instrument was at that time.What matters most is the HW for precision instruments, it needs be right and the firmware can be corrected to get the instrument performing better or as users want/need.Do your homework and if you still have doubts come back and ask.Quote from: alexwhittemore on November 07, 2017, 09:34:55 pmNot just that but real visibility from a distance, even in very good light.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 07, 2017, 09:38:35 pmYeah, my 5.5 digit HP meter that I'm trying to supplant has a regular old reflective non-backlit LCD. Impossible to read except in excellent light, head on.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:31:52 pm
content: Quick comparison of two display technologies.This is why I'm not a fan of TFT based instruments.In mid-high lighting, all good:In this one, low ambient light in the room, TFT bleed through on blacks is awful:Screw non backlit reflective LCDs. I've eviscerated all of them from my bench.As for trends, useful but I prefer to have something computer-connected for that. All my kit is LXI or SCPI capable including the DMM which pops up as a virtual COM port. The GDM-8342 will data log for you onto a USB stick if you want just not display it on the screen.WRT TFT's, if you get a good one, so be it but you're not going to find anything particularly nice on test gear really.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2017, 10:31:52 pmToughened glass and nonreflective is they way to go.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:39:17 pm
content: Reflective (glass) has much better contrast I find.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2017, 10:31:52 pmI fully agree and that is one of the reasons I avoid the HP gear which uses these kind of displays. IIRC I only have one piece of HP gear which has a reflective LCD and that is a 2kW PSU which was incredibly cheap and I really needed it.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 03:23:32 pm
content: alexwhittemore, if you happen to live in the US and near a Fry's Electronics, you can get an Agilent U1273A NOS for reasonable prices.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:25:50 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 08, 2017, 03:23:32 pmI do, there's one right down the street! I've always sort of wanted one, but they seem to be going for $250, and though I love the OLED screen, I don't love that it lasts 4 years and then becomes a paperweight. So I'll probably pass.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:30:36 pm
content: Yeah had a couple of OLED displays. Never again. When they do start dying the stuck pixels poke you in the eye. All the display types seem to have a finite lifetime. My observation is:LED > LCD > VFD > TFT > OLED.Standard LED modules are the best as even after 30 years and even if they go orange you can still get close replacements! Custom LCDs; forget replacing them. VFDs; forget replacing them. TFT and OLED might be generic but are usually expensive to source (look at Tek DSO replacement display costs)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:48:58 pm
content: Yes, VFD displays may look a little dated, but their legibility is great. Some aren't really long lasting, but as bd139 asserts, neither are TFT and OLED. I dread to think what will become of all those new cars with fancy TFT displays. There's no way those are going to last as long as cars tend to do. The average 15 years might already be a stretch.Then again, I recently found out that the display I had taken to be a LED display in my stereo set is actually a VFD. I never really bothered to look closely. That thing's been beating to a pulp over several decades and it's still looking great. I guess the longevity of those depends on the specific make and model. They're often hard to replace once used up, though.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 07, 2017, 09:24:53 pmReally? I thought the model is fairly well regarded. Obviously, it doens't quite give you the street cred of the big brand boys.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 08, 2017, 06:30:36 pmDepending on the brand, you may well be able to replace custom LCDs. Fluke parts availability is one of the best reasons to get one, I think. But moreover, I don't find that reflective LCDs ever die. The conductive rubber contacts do, but those are super cheap to replace.OLEDs, though - screw that. The U1253A/B display dies in 4 years even if you don't use it!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 07:03:08 pm
content: Quote from: alexwhittemore on November 08, 2017, 06:52:36 pmThere appear to be plenty of Fluke LCDs with vague digits, though I'm not sure that's the display itself. It does appear to be one of the more reliable technologies.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 12:37:39 am
content: Free handheld multimeter when you buy bench test instrument:http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2847488&id=2847488&cmpid=MA48391AM&MKCID=25270956.000000000000000000000000000000

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 07:51:08 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 08, 2017, 07:03:08 pmEarly LCD modules were terrible. Think fluke 8000 series. Incidentally after seeing some crazy person do it on here and having a similar meter I did LCD replacement on an 8010A. Whoa what a ball ache. Basically the job was like knocking down walls and running cable. Also the LCD on my 77 started to go wonky but that was sorted with judicious cleaning.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 01:26:38 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 09, 2017, 07:51:08 amFluke 8060/8062 are excellent displays but yeah, replacing a 8020 display with a modern one is a pain (I did it once for my dad). CheckDr. Taylor's threadfor a nice explanation from the designer.Regarding OLED, I suspect (or rather hope) it is a similar scenario: the U1253 uses a first incarnation of displays while the U1273A uses an improved version. Only time will tell, but as I mentioned on theother thread, my 4 year-old NOS U1273A does not yet have any degradation.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 08:24:31 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 08, 2017, 07:03:08 pmRight, I had a Fluke 83 with that problem. It's the rubber contact strips that dry out and stop working reliably. You can wipe them down with IPA and they work great right after, but inevitably fade again over the next few days. Replacement strip kits are $20 specifically for those units. It's a super common problem with Flukes, specifically because they live so damn long. I bought mine "for repair or as-is" like two years ago - its production date was 1989!

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 08:27:16 pm
content: Quote from: shteii01 on November 09, 2017, 12:37:39 amGreat find, but sadly none of the qualifying bench units are meters

author: Pitrsek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 09:29:24 pm
content: I don't know where are you from, but in my country distributors are usually cleaning their stock of demo units around this time of year. It might be worth asking. Actually the winter demo clearance is one the best reasons to be on their spam list. There are some great deals to be had.

author: GerryBags
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 04:18:22 pm
content: I just picked up a GDM-8341 with GPIB for £219, brand spanking new on AzamonI'll be able to get some decent leads for it and still be quids in. Woot, as they say.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 05:08:01 pm
content: Congratulations. That's £100 less than I paid for mine on AmazonThe leads that come with it are "ok" but not keysight or fluke grade.And to avoid the headache that I had and though it was broken; it doesn't auto range on the 12A input. You have to switch the range to that (same as Keysight meters).