What are the technical terms for audio/midi gear knobs, buttons & switches? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2021, 10:32:34 pm
content: I'm having trouble finding what these are by searching parts sellers. If anyone could enlighten me with the technical names, I would appreciate it.This would be the potentiometers and other bits forfader,pan(that can easily snap/notch to center),modulationwheel,pitch bendwheel (feels spring loaded),drum pads(mpc 2000 or akai keyboards), analogEQ knobs that snapto specific frequencies only (think pultec EQ), EQ knobs that changeQ,muteandsolotoggle switches (ones that stay depressed until pressed again, or those that just toggle illumination),displaysyou can use for SMPTE time or samples or realtime,jog wheel(continuous) for choosing midi patches on a sound module or navigating audio/video timelines on a video control surface,video faderhandle (T-shape), adisplay knobfor changing values that you can alsopushto toggle different menus, those smallmetal joystick switchesthat have 3 states—up, middle and down,set of buttonsthat when one is depressed the others automatically pop out (think 1176 compressor ratio buttons), and also a guitar pedalfoot switch.I'm not sure if potentiometers vary if they are used for analog audio signals or midi signals, like the knobs on a midi controller you can set to any controller via software vs a pan knob on a console. If they are different for midi, please list them as well.I may be forgetting a few so feel free to add any others you may know of. I'll compile a list of everything in this post based on replies unless such a list exists on here already. I think this will help newcomers like me in finding these parts in the future.Thanks

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2021, 11:06:53 pm
content: Most of these controls are specially made by or for each manufacturer. They are not generic, most of the time. If you want a particular part you'd be best off to order from the manufacturer of the equipment.If you are planning to build a unit, you need to consult with the manufacturers of the controls. Mostly they are potentiometers. There can also be tricky mechanical devices, such as the spring loaded one you mentioned. Sometimes there will be a rotary encoder, and sometimes they are displacement transducers.

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2021, 11:23:16 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on April 25, 2021, 11:06:53 pmI'm asking about parts in general, not replacing a broken part for specific piece of gear.Something like a pitch bend wheel that has tension (or a spring) has been common for about the last 40 years and is on almost every MIDI keyboard controller, so I assume there would be a common potentiometer type (or something else) that could be identified. I could be wrong, of course.I'll check out rotary encoders and displacement transducers. Thanks

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2021, 11:26:59 pm
content: Quotedetent pots have a notch in certain positions that you feel as you rotate them,QuotelatchingQuoteinterlocking,or often "radio switch"

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 12:18:29 am
content: Things like mod wheels, video faders, foot pedals usually use standard pots.They add springs, gears, levers to make the final product.

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 01:02:22 am
content: Quote from: Renate on April 26, 2021, 12:18:29 amThanksI found some images of replacements of various models of pitch and mod wheels. They do seem to have sideways potentiometers. Mod wheel and pitch bend may be separate or part of same mechanism with ribbon cables connecting to their contacts. Not sure what type of potentiometer would be used since pitch bend ranges from -8192 to +8192 and modulation I think has the same number of values (16,384). Maybe a chip is used to encode the resistance value or it's done in software.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 01:59:19 am
content: Most pots for modern equipment are in the 1k to 10k range.These pots usually just go across a reference voltage and the wiper goes to an ADC.In such a case you could replace a 5k with a 10k and it wouldn't make much difference.Your microcontroller would do the job of scaling CCW-CW to whatever range the application needs.In some applications (mod wheel without gears) the pot doesn't even rotate the full range.Sometime a goofy custom is used that only needs rotation of 90 to 180 degrees.Most of the time they just scale things correctly with a normal pot.1k to 10k are low enough impedance to not be so noise sensitive without drawing so much current.When you send audio directly through a pot or analog tone controls is where you'll find 100k to 1M pots.

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 02:26:43 pm
content: I did manage to find one more: knobs used to snap to specific positions are calledstepped attenuators—such as used preset EQ frequencies or ratios on some analog compressors. There seem to be a few kinds, including "series," "ladder," and "shunt" stepped attenuators.Here's a page on stepped attenuators.https://goldpt.com/attenuator_types.html

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 02:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on April 25, 2021, 11:06:53 pmI read up on transducers and think I understand.From what I gather these have an input that will take a non-electrical signal—such as pressure when pushing on a drum pad, pressing a stylus onto a drawing tablet, light/photons hitting a sensor—convert it into an electrical signal and then send it to an output.Simplified, it takes a non-electrical quantity and converts into an electrical one.In the case of MIDI, I assume that electrical output signal will then be sent to a microcontroller of some kind that will convert it into the MIDI signal that a DAW or sound module can understand.If this is not correct, please let me know. Makes logical sense though

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 02:57:10 pm
content: The controls on something like a Pultec are generally multi pole rotary switches, Greyhill and Elna are typical manufacturers (NOT Cheap).Do make sure they you pick the appropriate contact plating, switching contacts have a minimum as well as a maximum current rating, which can bite you with small signal audio.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 04:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: Humanoid on April 26, 2021, 02:50:27 pmI recently built a MIDI drum controller (but only as proof of concept, I'm not much of a drummer).I used a ~20 mm quartz disc like you find in piezo beepers.I connected it directly to two pins on a microcontroller (AVR8, ATMega32u4).I used the pullups on the inputs and the protection diodes as my conditioning, no other components.With a bit of rubber pad over the disc I could hit it with a drum stick and it worked fine.A real drum controller has to handle the input a bit better to be able to read strength of hit better.Quote from: dmills on April 26, 2021, 02:57:10 pmA Pultec is a fine device, but it's getting a bit old now.Real broadcast stepped attentuators (as seen on Gates "boards") are fine devices.Nowadays people prefer cheaper controls and digital attentuation.We've also moved away from "stateful" controls.It's easier to use rotary biphase encoders than motorized linear faders.

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 05:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on April 26, 2021, 02:57:10 pmI'm not looking for cheap and don't expect them to be. I'm trying to find out what the components are that they use to make controls on pro audio gear—be they outboard processors, control surfaces, monitor controllers, MIDI controllers/keyboards, and analog mixing consoles. I know the laymen terms because I use this gear, just not the technical ones needed when sourcing parts.I'm going to contact both companies to see what they manufacture for audio applications. Thanks.

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 05:55:35 pm
content: Quote from: Renate on April 26, 2021, 04:43:01 pmThanks for the info. A lot of this is over my head so I will do further research.They still make pro audio gear that is analog and has those stepped/detented switches—be they pultec or Teletronics clones or newer originals like the Acme Opticom or Shadow Hills stuff. Some of us still like the expensive controls and the sound of analog gear, though I also love the digital side as well and the ability to use unlimited instances of plugins and midi controllers. Those cheap knobs and switches on MIDI controllers have failed me numerous times over the years.Can you clarify what "Gates boards" are? Are these broadcast control surfaces or mixers? I'd like to check them out.Also, the biphase encoders, are these being used for motorized faders on a mixer or audio control surface?

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 05:58:48 pm
content: These devices are potentiometers, switches (of many types s.p.s.t. d.p.d.t. and more) push buttons and rotary encoders. Your question is just too open ended to be precise. Obviously the spring-return-to-center pitch wheel in a Yamaha isn't the same as one found in a Korg and is very doubtful they would even physically interchange. Why 'contact' a manufacturer and 'ask them' what they make for audio? The answer would fill volumes of catalogs so instead just go online and look up potentiometers, switches and so forth. In this age of electronics potentiometers in hi level hi price audio gear are going away and being replaced by rotary encoders driving 10 to 16 bit digital attenuators and you will find those attenuators in equalizers, preamps, processors and so forth. Are you planning on building something?

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 07:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: CaptDon on April 26, 2021, 05:58:48 pmThanks for the info. I am planning on building some stuff in the future, hence why I want to learn what all of these parts are. I personally like the old beefy analog switches, meters, etc. I like how they look, how they feel and how sturdy they are. They also don't seem to fail as often as the newer stuff. I've had plenty of MIDI keyboards and controllers have their knobs go bad.I do disagree with high level stuff going away though as I am a musician, and many musicians and engineers want that old-style stuff, especially analog. Some studios still run only analog and refuse to use ProTools or computers (granted there are few of them). Companies like Moog and Oberheim continue to put out analog synths because digital synths and virtual instruments do not sound the same. New analog gear is also being made, be they mixers or processors like compressors and reverb. Since they introduced 500 series "lunchbox" size audio gear some years back, you can get small, modular analog processors now too (along with digital ones) and some of those are still a few thousand dollars. Many of them appear to be using those beefy analog switches while others look more modern. Depends on the unit.Maybe on some of these devices they are using the the new rotary attenuators you describe and are simply using beefy knobs so they look like the old stuff, I would need to look into it, but some of them definitely don't and the internals look like stuff from the 50s and 60s and are built point-to-point without using PCBs or anything digital.The good news is they are also combining digital with analog so you get the analog sound with digital control. Moog makes some analog models that have digital control, so you can save presets on your computer and bring back those settings on the analog machine and also control them with MIDI.Some images attached of modern analog outboard and synths.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 09:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: Humanoid on April 26, 2021, 05:55:35 pmHere is a fine example: (more infohere)

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 10:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: Renate on April 26, 2021, 09:58:07 pmAh, they're old tube radio consoles (well, some were, the one here is transistor). Nice! Definitely drool worthy. That's a nice stereo model with some luscious knobs. Crazy to think that before stereo they were doing mono mixes directly to vinyl masters in one take.Great article about that rebuild as well. Love that stuff. Thanks for the link.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2021, 11:47:18 pm
content: @Humanoid This phat puppy was possibly the highest water mark for home-built pure analogue synths ever (?) The Maplin 5600S.Welcome to knob heaven:https://encyclotronic.com/synthesizers/maplin/5600s-r1422/#images

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2021, 12:54:38 am
content: QuoteIf you fancy building one,https://worldradiohistory.com/ETI_Magazine-AU.htmbegin with october 1973

author: Humanoid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2021, 02:33:34 am
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on April 26, 2021, 11:47:18 pmJFC!Bit much for me. I'd start off simpler with a controller of some kind. That's crazy though.

author: Michael Rempel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 10:40:47 pm
content: You might like this. Needs some clever case work.http://mayhewlabs.com/products/rotary-encoder-led-ring