Moderately high quality cheap motors, mechanics, salvage options? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: evb149
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2022, 05:59:35 am
content: Hi -- just a question looking for tips / sources formoderately high quality cheap motors, mechanics, equipment part salvage options?What do I / do I not mean by high quality --BAD: well on the one hand I see lots of motors, servos, mechanisms, etc.that are literally designed for toy use which is great but then one sees a lot of talk about REALLY limited componentlife, motors or servos not being rated for continuous use, overheating after a few minutes on-time, replacement afterdays / weeks, etc. Ok I get it some of the stuff is really pushed HARD by the toys and is designed to be cheap withtiny price margins.GOOD: Since forever one has seen things like hard drives or to a much lesser extent DVD drives with mechanisms capable ofextended or continuous operation, sub-micron level vibration / play / wobble / vibration, smooth, quite, efficient, often built in moderately good quality encoders, cheap retail prices, junk bin status of millions of parts per year given the high volume andchanges in technology, etc.Ages before that one would see piles of dead VCRs or tape decks or record players with continuous operation rated spindle / head motors, bearings, mechanics, and these things had to have been cheap to make mostly, had low vibration, low play/wobble, smooth bearings, long life time, efficient, small.Laser printers, scanners, photocopiers, even inkjet printers at some point weren't all disposable and full of plastic mechanisms with poor quality / durability.Ok so I'm not talking about either toys, robots, legos, or super precision industrial / scientific grade stuff, but I'd like some motors, bearings, gears, encoders, servos, shafts, brushless motors, stages, 1D, 2D, 3D mechanisms, actuators, voice coils, piezo actuators, etc. that would be both available, cheap (e.g. salvage or reuse of high-volume mass market designed stuff like for hard drives, VCRs, lab equipment, etc. and give a rather high mechanical precision / quality easily.I have the impression a lot of such things were pretty much always custom made for the high volume equipment maker (motor + encoder assemblies, piezo motors, robots, whatever) so historically it's been more of a case of reverse engineering guess work to reuse anything with no standard specifications from one model to the next (VCRs, DVDs, hard drives, ...).Maybe that's a little better now with Chinese mega-factories producing standard stuff to be sold to a hundred different manufacturers of mostly cookie-cutter products so maybe a "nobody" can actually order something and get some semblance of a data sheet and repeatable product model availability.So what kind of somewhat precision / high performance electro-mechanical projects have you seen / made that used off the shelf / salvage parts to achieve superior electro-mechanical functionality?The problem is that it seems almost impossible to search for something like "motor" or "servo" or "encoder" or whatever say ebay / aliexpress or so and not end up with so much RC toy junk that it's impossible to find the high quality but still high volume / low cost stuff.What cheap / easy / repeatable thing would let me get like super smooth low play / backlash motion control down in the microns or sub-micron tolerance level of a small stage or controlled assembly e.g. what you'd expect of hard disk head or spindle motions or at least DVD or VCR head like quality?What's the cheap/easy/high quality way to get many thousands of RPM of smooth low vibration durable spindle motion continually?Where does one get standardized size bearings / shafts / gears / blocks etc. that all work together nicely with precision with commodity level pricing when one wants better than 3D printed / plastic junk level motion but doesn't want to pay science / precision industrial pricing?I'm sure good quality stuff is all over but for someone not routinely buying mechatronic stuff it's a bit uncertain to find the best practical options when so much "junk" is mixed in the market with the same keywords.

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2022, 03:33:49 pm
content: I have purchasedNidec 24Hmotors for low prices.They are BLDC motors with integrated motor driver and quadrature encoder. Evidently meant for oem use in commercial quality laser printers/copiers. I think they meet your definition of good quality.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2022, 03:41:41 pm
content: A good amount of mechanical parts and motors could be found in older laser printers / copiers. Usually, they are of very high quality, as they we intended to last for a decade of heavy use.

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2022, 04:41:12 pm
content: There are all manner of surplus stores that still exist. Start withhttps://www.sciplus.com/Communications-Electronics-c/Electronic-Components-sand then do some searches on "surplus electronic and mechanical components" or similar terms.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 04:09:36 pm
content: In what sort of power rangers are your interest? Do you want a 2W toothbrush motor, or a 20kW motor for an electric vehicle?And what sort of prices do you have in mind?You almost can't go wrong with BLDC motors. From the small ones in quadcopters to bigger versions. Small milling spindles (100W to 400W) can be bought new from Ebay / Ali for below EUR 200, and that is inclusive the controller, and maybe even including the power supply. For a milling spindle, stiffness is a primary concern, so always buy one which has the ER collet holder integrated in the motor. BLDC motors do not have brushes, and this makes them a lot more reliable.Both Faulhaber and Maxon make excellent brushed DC motors in all sorts of forms and with or without gear boxes attached. They are quite expensive new but often you can buy them second hand for small prices.If you want very small motors, then have a look at the N20. It can be bought with gear boxes in different ratio's and forms (straight or 90 degree), it can also have a rod with metric thread (used in miniature linear actuators), and at least the gear boxes themselves look quite good with metal gears. (but they're open, beware of dirt and lubrcation etc). Those motors are also cheap enough to regard as replaceable items. Even buying a bag of 10 of them won't cost you an arm nor a leg.There are also lots of (geared or not) stepper motors, and because of their lack of brushes these also tend to have a relatively long life, although I have some doubts with the very cheap versions with plastic gears such as the Y28B .. You can buy cheap and small but yet probably good quality stepper motors with all kinds of weird attachments for small prices, for example:https://www.ebay.com/itm/252349709750Also, Precision and accuracy does not have to depend on a motor much. for example, there are some re-creations of the adjustment mirrors for the James Webb space telescope using flexures and 3D printed parts. It's quite easy and cheap to build but can reach excellent accuracy.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 04:50:47 pm
content: If BLDC motors will work for you, the brushless motors sold for RC cars and airplanes are relatively high quality for the price. They are almost always ball bearing and come in a variety of pole counts for different speed ranges. Hard drive spindle motors are similar, but hard drive head "motors" are all voicecoil actuators these days, you need closed loop control and they sweep through a limited range of motion.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 05:26:35 pm
content: evb149 YOU are totally right, about the TOY quality thing, and virtually all the semi-junk stays (sitting) in the closet bin...waiting for a 'smart' project. But I've come to accept that, buying now with limits in mind.This particular TOY RC CAR however, really shines as complex yet simple and solid with screw attachments etc. instead of cheapo glue. The 'rear end' is all performance minded, see that yellow back wheel portion, pivot and shock mounted. Meanwhile, upfront, a separate motor-sensor-servo handles some steering. One control board, all surface mount (no black plastic covered 'blobs').It makes me think; one sector of TOY market has to get pretty competitive...that being the drone enthusiasts.Another TOY that made me chuckle, was a motion detecting (light sensitive diode) box / motorized tray that was a Halloween 'gag'. Oh, and check out in my photo, behind car, is some kind of 'Planetary' gear assembly, looking like some Issac Newton or DaVinci machine part.So you see, the whole 'Toy Evalulator' thing is, admittantly, mostly a dead end, BUT I did manage to put together a package, for 3 year old nephew, including several 'talking /audio recording' greeting cards.- - Rick B.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 05:28:22 pm
content: Here is R/C car, plus that 'Planetary gear' shown behind the car.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 06:09:33 pm
content: Well I don't now how well you can mix high quality with low cost but here are a few ideas:Amazon. Learn to use the search tools there.Misumihttps://us.misumi-ec.com/contents/company/about/is a fantastic supplier that while industrial is very competitive cost wise.EBay. If you know what you are looking for.Surplus stores, for example:https://www.sciplus.com/,an interesting link:http://amasci.com/supliers.html.https://www.sciplus.com/and many othersDIY CNC is thing, search for companies like:https://buildyourcnc.com/and others handling low cost "junk".Look for local but large organizations that have their own surplus operations. One well known option:https://investmentrecovery.boeing.com/surplus/FeaturedAuctions.aspx,Finally look for businesses doing business close outs, failures, and shutdowns. An example here would behttps://www.go-dove.com/

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 06:39:03 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on June 11, 2022, 03:41:41 pmYes, an old office photocopier is a goldmine of shafting, bearings, motors, sensors etc. As long as you can lift it!

author: evb149
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 10:56:56 pm
content: Thank you very much, and, yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know aboutas an option for a basic BLDC spindle motor + encoder in its general performance category at a very fine price.Yes I suspect that at least "in the old days" (pre 2000?) pretty much anything that comes inside a hard disc, commercial laser printer / photocopier, VCR, at least some DVD/CD/commercial tape player would have very decent quality mechanics inside as well as reasonably good to excellent quality motors.I know since then more and more home / office / commercial equipment is being more and morebuilt to be made from plastic even for critical mechanical parts and is designed for obsolescence / limited life vs. repairability.I've even had some floppy drives that were way more solid and mechanically fine than some 3D / laser / inkjet printers are today wrt. motion controls, frame, slides, etc. "they don't make them like they used to".Quote from: eugene on June 11, 2022, 03:33:49 pm

author: evb149
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 11:01:41 pm
content: Thank you very much, I will do that.For a long time I lived in / near the Silicon Valley area and had half a dozen industrial / electronics surplus places with physical warehouses I'd often go to to look for stuff. After around 1995-2000 most of them had closed their physical stores and just sold on ebay or similar but often thelistings / descriptions / photos / details etc. were very incomplete compared to what one could glean about the usability of something based on looking at it or whatever demo unit / documents they had out, etc.I'll have to try to get in the habit of looking more at the surviving surplus places that are onlinethese days.Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on June 11, 2022, 04:41:12 pm

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2022, 11:09:53 pm
content: Quote from: evb149 on June 12, 2022, 11:01:41 pmI think what happened is all the manufacturing moved to China, so most of the surplus has moved to China. I was browsing the motors from that aliexpress link someone posted and there is all sorts of cool stuff there.

author: evb149
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2022, 01:47:55 pm
content: Hello, thank you very much for the informative and helpful response.I'd like to try working with some DIY CAM/CNC in the future so the 100W-2HP(?) spindle motor range is of interest to me certainlybut at the moment I don't have plans / budget to build / upgrade such a machine. Though I can see how the 100-200W motors could be a good cost / quality sweet spot for general BLDC motors that have a bit of power.The kinds of things I'd be more imminently interested in might be the sorts of things one could use such moderately powerful ones for would more likely be general stuff like 1D/2D/3D motion control stages not for machining but general stuff like one might use a 3D printer assembly for or altitude-azimuth drive for a SLR camera tripod or dobsonian telescope or something, positioning stuff for testing sensors or 3D scanning, whatever utility / lab / experimental stuff might come in handy with N-D-stage or Alt-Az or R-theta positioning.EVs: definitely an interest, but no current budget / plans to get into anything at that power level unfortunately.toothbrush motors? Well actually I would have several things that would make me interested in low power and/or small size and/or high speed kinds of motors like that. I'd be quite interested to find some cheap / usable piezo positioners, ultrasonic motors, or small fast actuators or motors. DIY materials science, optics, sensors, just moving little things around a little bit but maybe fast or precise or ultra precise, mixed-bag.For "toy" size motors like the 3000RPM or whatever 2mm shaft, cheap, DC brushed 3V motors I've sort of given up on the idea of using those for a small / cheap motor due to low quality and a perceived lack of commonplace availability of good ways to mount them or hook anything readily available (gears, wheels, etc.) to their shafts (2mm seeming uncommon for accessories vs. larger shaft sizes), and no built in encoder, not BLDC, not smooth, etc.I've got too little time, way too much to do, and an unbounded list of technical hobby interests many of which would benefit froma lot better mechanical motion control / stage / actuator stuff than I currently have (more or less none) so I'm mostly just looking tostart by finding some good / cheap "go to" options for stuff I can get now or gradually to improve my ME / motion control / CNC capabilities for experiments and utilities.So basically if anyone has any fantastic suggestions as to "hey this thing is ridiculously good / easy to use / high quality, and it's surplus for pennies on the dollar or made by the billion for hard drives so it's cheap" then I'm all ears regardless of the particularRPM / power / details since at least it's a tool that's gonna be useful for all sorts of things in its category.So: BLDC motors, 1/2/3D/XY/R-Theta stages, servos, encoders, gearing, bearings, unusual and interesting stuff (e.g. linear or bending piezo nanopositioners, super high RPM stuff, high-ish power stuff, PTZ stuff, gyros, disc drive / printer / copier / scanner / camera parts, whatever, if it's useful / interesting / cheap it'd be interesting to know about.One thing I wanted to make before I moved would be a DIY mirror grinding machine for amateur astronomical telescopes. Not that complicated and there are various plans for suitable machines online and they involve a moderately sizable motor (washing machine level?) but that particular one is on hold due to time / space now, but again, that sort of thing or an alt-az drive for a scope / camera would be just two of hundreds of possible things I'd like to eventually find some mechanics for.I've done some testing on an optomechanical DAQ sensor product where to calibrate / test stuff you'd ideally sling it around some in R-theta space, maybe even have an azimuth axis and maybe also some X or XY displacement too while exercising the accelerometer / gyro / camera on the assembly. So somewhere between a record player, ceiling fan, and desktop mini industrial robot arm type stage / drive would've helped with that as long as it moved and had encoders or something.I'd like to make some simple "geared" / pulleyed / "clockwork" stuff of low complexity and I'm sure you can buy standard gears, though the motors to drive them, encoders, way to build the particular support structure to position them in concert, etc. is lacking presently.So I'm grateful for all the presented general and specific ideas and resources!Quote from: Doctorandus_P on June 12, 2022, 04:09:36 pm

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2022, 02:40:42 pm
content: In my quest to find elusive data on the modulus of toothed belts I came across this page:https://blanch.org/belts-vs-screws-in-cnc-design/Down near the bottom, the author provides a link to this ebay seller:https://www.ebay.com/str/industrialpartsshopIt's not the super low cost surplus we all like to find. Instead, it's used, high quality parts for a fair price. Maybe useful to someone here...

author: evb149
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2022, 02:49:52 pm
content: Thank you very much.High quality for a fair price is certainly good to know of, too, and I've bought plenty of that over the years, just mostlyIT stuff vs. mechatronics.Although in the "pennies on the dollar" category a friend of mine once got a large desk-sized (as in the whole desk, not on the desk) working electron microscope complete with diffusion & turbo pumps & controllers etc. etc. for like $100 or something trivial, and a couple years later I missed getting a similar one for literally free "haul it away, please!".Another friend of mine got a working refrigerator sized VAX 11/750 minicomputer free like that (haul it away!).Those must have been in the $20k+ range new given the core plus all accessories also obtained.and so on and so on.Quote from: eugene on June 19, 2022, 02:40:42 pm

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2022, 07:25:31 pm
content: This reminding me, did some TEAR-DOWN as 'educational' child-care type activity, emphasizing safety (eyes and fingers!), and with constructive 'teaching' the difference between (wild) vandals, and slow, examination tear-down.That dot-matrix printer gave plenty of 'lecture' material; "...see those wires in the print head...", that sort of hands-on stuff. Always kept saying / asking, "Where's your safety glasses ?...Keep your fingers safe, out of danger, from sharp edges."The kid (barely 2 years), really appreciated the mostly technical approach, and MOM, was close by, monitoring. We were even able, later, to turn those 'Printer Tear-Down' type activities to more advantage by the MOM, motivating quiet kid to interact more.Win, win in that deal.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 06:10:42 pm
content: Here is a decent salvage job, a Drug Store Toy:This 8-note PIANO, surprisingly, can do it's simple keyboard decode, straight off of a little Solar Cell. That's a bit unconventional, but the guess is, the processor performs a 3 ROW scan, by 8 key columns.A good key 'intersection', replaces the 'SONG' key, with that little (1 inch) cell.Mainly, folks are more interested in 'non-contact' things, these days; otherwise I might not consider suggesting using a personal flashlight (instead of pushing a key).The thing works either way, best with + (positive) to the 8 bit input (was a keyboard). That way, the cell - (minus cell output), is scanned, as a row. So, bit4, Row1 is the location for playing a short song, (Mary had a Little Lamb, etc.)The function, whether it's a note, or some instrument switch (piano, sax, vibes, viola), each thing starts, when you have pulled light away, from solar cell, (a falling edge).

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 06:15:05 pm
content: ...In that last photo, you can see, a straw points to LED driven by the Toy Piano audio output (speaker), by way of a 100 ohm resistor.The little speaker volume is also cut down, being about right on another 100 ohm speaker resistor.Actually, I'm more interest in using this piano thing for exciting LEDs,...(ha ha).

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 06:50:32 pm
content: Quote from: eugene on June 11, 2022, 03:33:49 pmmaybe tomorrow my Nidec 24H motor+controller pair will arrive, thanks for the head up. i will see how well the control works, and how they work... earlier i bought a bunch ofBrushed Motor DC6V-12V 7800RPM with Encoder AB Phaseat $1+ each (now it seems more expensive), we have to make our own controller for them bcause they have none, just the AB encoder/sensor. my thinking them as a possible cheap alternative to "open loop no control" stepper motor that we usually see in diy/hobby grade 3d printer/cnc, and make it act like a "closed loop" stepper and receive input like a normal open loop stepper command... closed loop stepper motors are insanely expensive the last time i checked. another thinking is to emulate/make controller of servo motor, which uses trimpot as position sensor. problem with servo motor is they dont cover full 360 degree rotation, if i can make a servo motor that can swing to whatever angle i like, such as more than 360 degrees, then i have more freedom. ymmv.

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 08:24:15 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 22, 2022, 06:50:32 pmThe integrated driver works fine, but be aware that it is inverted (low duty cycle results in high speed.) But, this works well if you connect it to the open collector of a small npn transistor. Then the polarity of the pwm is 'normal' and the control voltage can be 3.3V, which is not used anywhere else in the motor. EDIT: there is already a pull up to 5V, so no additional pullup required, just the transistor.Encoder outputs are 5V, but a voltage divider works fine to bring it down to 3.3V even at maximum speed. EDIT: there is an integrate pull up to 5V, so a simple resistor between the encoder output and ground completes the voltage divider. I don't recall what value is required, but it's a few kOhm.There is an incremental encoder output (100 line, 400 counts per rev) but you have to close the loop yourself. So it's not as simple to use as a stepper.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 10:07:11 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 22, 2022, 06:50:32 pmCheap ones are also available:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803940750451.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256801328969059.htmlThis stuff is fun to play around with (I made my own) but if you actually have an application just buy something that will work.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2022, 05:13:22 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 22, 2022, 10:07:11 pmoh now they have done that! its input is like normal open loop stepper motor? ie we just send a pulse, and the circuit will do whatever it takes to increment a step? send 100 pulses, if the stepper got stucked at 50 increment, than it will try to correct indefinitely to reach 100 steps? until if we send another reversed 50 pulses? for small stepper motor, the price maybe still manageable, moving to larger motor, the price can go exponential i guess. if i have the controller separate from the motor and power element, i can freely buy a larger motor at cheap, upgrade the power element for a little price and reuse the same controller with just few tweaks on PID parameters basically for free. but i dont have time yet for such endeavour. btw the nidec24h pair i bought at not so cheap, $15+ (still cheaper than the china close loop stepper). but my intention is just for testing. if it works as expected maybe i can get cheaper as linked by eugene earlier $5/motor and make my own controller, if i know how it works (how to control or send command to the motor).Quote from: eugene on June 22, 2022, 08:24:15 pminverted PWM logic is not a problem. i want to see how well it handles overshoots and undershoots, or if disturbances exist (a superior property of a stepper motor if operated within load limit range)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2022, 11:43:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 23, 2022, 05:13:22 amYes, like a normal stepper you send step and direction. If you send 100 and it gets stuck half way, then reverse, it will keep track of where it should be, and reverse to the correct location. It won't lose its position.You could make your own controller for the Nidec for sure. I think that would be a good PID project. Please post the photos if you can determine what IC they are using.And make sure you can handle the encoder pulses coming in.It is 100 line encoder, so 400ppr or 0.9 degrees resolution. Which is not bad with timing pulleys.The one used in the Ali listing are MT6816 theoretically 16,000ppr. Of course in reality its nowhere near that number, and the software is not great.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2022, 07:21:30 am
content: its a bit hassle to power bldc motor for me though. Maybe one day i will learn how.. this nidec24h looks like low powered compared to nema17 or 23 stepper.. i snapped pictures of the nidec but they are still in my phone unedited and large sizes.. on back side of motor are few bx9512, havent check datasheet but i guess mosfets... the mcu? is a1952 (allegro 6641et)... on the controller is ch552g... encoder is ab phase optical type, not hall effect... havent play with it because... dont turn it on, turn it apart first.. actually i quite bz..

author: evb149
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2022, 09:17:50 am
content: Going from recollection when I was glancing at the nidec web site as well as the aliexpress siteI seem to recall that the motors in the general series the aliexpress model family is in are specified asusing a single particular operating voltage (e.g. 12V specifically or 24V specifically) on the nidec site.Whereas it seemed like some of the english specifications I could read on the aliexpress siteseemed to be saying "12-24V" as if one can use whatever voltage one wanted in that range for themotors sold by aliexpress.I had a thought to follow up to see if my uncertainty / impression about that is confirmable by closerstudy of the sites. If it is so then maybe one should identify the particular motor's specified operating voltageand use that if possible rather than possibly using a too low or too high value.Maybe someone here has used these / looked into these (there seem to be a few of you who have / will) canconfirm if they found any ambiguity about that or anything else on the aliexpress parts that is worth beingcareful to account for?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2022, 12:42:02 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 24, 2022, 07:21:30 amWell the Allegro driver is in the Nidec which makes it easier for you, its already commutating using the 3 hall sensors on the bottom. You just need to send a direction and speed.But I can't find any info on Allegro A1952 or 6641ET, must be remarked or custom IC. It will be similar to aA4915.MOSFET in the ali listing ishttp://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AO4862.pdf30V ~3.5A, and input cap 35V. FETs might handle 2-3A continuous.Torque of the Nidec could be less than nema17 as it runs at higher speed:QuoteWhich is why you want to divide down the output a bit with a timing pulley, or low pitch ball screw, or both, if you need higher torque.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2022, 09:22:05 am
content: here's the pictures of Nidec24H and its controller... i need to clean up my desk before i can test it... the controller has 6 pins out but the motor has 8 pins in, so i'll need to figure out that later

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2022, 05:55:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 25, 2022, 09:22:05 amI don't see why you need to figure that out as long as you know the functions of the pins on the connector. With the ones that I bought, I applied 12V to the motor power pin, and used all the rest as described in the Nidec datasheet. Everything worked as advertised.I did take the cover off and try to figure out what was going on inside, but I didn'tneedto.