PC Build or Buy - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:01:00 pm
content: A friend wants a high performance gaming PC. Anyone hip to what are the high quality components, such as MB, video card, ram...? I'd probably suggest a high spec i7.Or is just more feasible to buy a pre-built system like an Alienware?

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:07:23 pm
content: The main issue with self build is when you hit awkward compatibility issues between components. Especially as the suppliers will likely 'play off' one against the other rather than admit they are at fault.

author: Rbastler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:11:07 pm
content: Prebuild systems might end up more expensive, but you have a warranty on the whole PC not spred on different parts.I build mine mainly, because it was cheaper for the config I choose and I wanted to have the experience of building it. And also I could choose whatever parts I wanted to have inside the PC.Therefore I'd say it comes down to money and personal preference to build your own PC, which of course can be quite risky, if you damage say the CPU socket for example.

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:29:42 pm
content: I've only ever bought one 'budget' PC, it was i7-based and I was lazy as it was a single-purpose PC for controlling some hardware. The CPU was the only useful component inside it. In fact, the PSU blew up within a week, and within a month the whole lot was gutted and replaced with other parts. Then I swapped the case for a decent one (because I could not fit a better graphics card inside it) leaving just the CPU as the only part re-used in the rebuild. A total waste of money. I'll stay with building my own - but not because it's cheaper, it isn't, but then I like to choose quality components rather than the crap they use for budget pre-built machines. You can get a good quality gaming rig if you pay for it, and vendors like Overclockers allow you to configure your own, but it's not cheap.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:42:55 pm
content: If I buy PCs these days I get 2-3 year old workstation class machines from HP (z-series). You can get a Xeon E5 for less than a new self build and the thing will work properly because it has decent end to end integration.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 05:46:37 pm
content: 8 years ago, I built the PC I am typing this on. I chose the best available hardware at the time and carefully considered compatibility and future upgrades. The purpose was to be my primary design computer for SolidWorks and MasterCAM which were rather picky back then.It has been on 24/7 since 2009 and the only major problem was the system drive crashed and I had to recover from an Acronis backup (side note - Acronis SUCKS!!!!)Other than an HDD fail - this has been the most reliable and longest lasting computer since 1984. It is still my primary PC. Still quick - even for graphics-heavy stuff, watching YouTube, and 30 browser windows open at any given moment. Compared to a similar setup at the same time from any of the major manufacturers - it was maybe 50% of the cost and I would have had a much more limited scope of options.While this machine is on borrowed time....I still like the idea of building my own solution. It pays to plan - if you just hack it together you risk having a huge and non-stop project on your hands.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 06:05:54 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on November 16, 2017, 05:01:00 pmIf you (your friend) wants to get great performance on the cheap, look into socket 2011 (not 2011-3). Specifically look for X79 chipset motherboards. Intel X79 is the 'consumer' version of their C600/C602 server chipset. It's identical but without dual-CPU or SAS support. Some generic brand X79 boards have shown up recently and appear to be a really good deal. They've also put downward pressure on the name brand ones as a bonus.LGA 2011 XEON processors can be had for a pittance compared to similar i7 ones. I put together a two CPU system with E5-2690 CPUs, these are eight core (16 thread with HT) each with 20 MB of L3 cache and QUAD channel DDR3 memory. Base frequency is 2.9 GHz but they run continuously at 3.3 GHz with all cores loaded and up to 3.8 GHz with fewer. Yes, only DDR3, but with quad channel (per CPU!), the bandwidth can still be exceptionally good. The CPUs cost me only about $200 each. Any i7 even remotely comparable in performance is many times the price, probably over $1k. Just for one CPU. And the memory I used is server memory (registered, ECC) so it too cost a fraction of equivalent normal DDR3 or DDR4. I got 64 GB for just over $100. (Some X79 boards do not support the cheaper registered server memory).Going this route won't get you the highest GHz on the block, but the performance/$ ratio is hard to beat.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 07:28:20 pm
content: Just note when you do build something, factor energy usage as in the 250W+ territory that becomes a significant portion of the cost of the unit over its lifetime.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 09:23:42 pm
content: I've built my own PCs for the last 22 or so years and that kind of knowledge and experience can't really be summed up in a few forum posts, but I'll summarise the important points.In my experience, very few PC builders "get it right" when it comes to compatibility between different components. Sure you could put together a reasonably decent machine, but if it means you need to reboot it every few days, weeks etc... just for it to remain stable (even on Windows), then it's not an optimal hardware configuration. If you don't know what you're doing intimately and know PC hardware inside out, I'd probably lean on buying a decent pre-built brand (but do your homework).Work out what operating system you're planning to run, if it's Windows 7, you're severely limited by choice these days as most hardware and drivers are designed for Windows 8 and up.Start with first building block, that's your motherboard. Decide on a board then work your way up.There is no "one size fits all" approach to building a PC. One machine won't be "the best" at everything. A machine which is great at high-end video editing isn't necessary good at playing high-end games etc...

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 10:28:47 pm
content: I would probably look atAsus ROG Maximus IX Hero or Formula7700k cpu16GB of some compatible ram, probably some top rated Corsair DDR4GeForce GTX 1080850W name brand 80+ gold PSprimary SSD like Samsung 850 and secondary magnetic HDDfull tower case

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:07:17 pm
content: Self build vs buy can be a difficult thing to judge and is heavily dependent on personal choice and the exact use to which the PC will be put although performance gaming rigs are definitely one application where there can be lots of advantages to choosing the components yourself.Self build can be fun and you will wind up knowing a lot more about PCs and components and how it all fits together - but you have to be comfortable with knowing that you will be your own warranty support.If you are none too sure of what components to buy you are probably best going for a pre-built system. If you are interested in an overclocked system I would also suggest going pre-built because anyone doing overclocked bundles will have lots of CPUs to choose from and select the good ones (from an overclocking perspective). If you do want to go down the DIY overclocking route do not buy your CPU from anyone offering O/C'd systems (increased chance of getting a CPU that failed to overclock well). If you want to DIY but also a guarantee of a good CPU look at O/C'd CPU and motherboard bundles.Your best bet is to decide what bits you want and price everything up, then look around and see what you would pay for something similar (or find a system that you like and price up the bits). If you feel the saving is worth it go for self build. If the saving is not that great you might as well have someone do the work for you.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:12:55 pm
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on November 16, 2017, 05:07:23 pmThat's not unheard of, but fairly rare. If you adhere to the QVL, it's really rare.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:15:07 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 16, 2017, 09:23:42 pmI start with the processor but it's probably chicken/egg. I decide the most I want to spend on the processor because their is always some obvious price gap on the high end I don't want to cross for the absolute top shelf of the day processor. Finding a board to fit that isn't usually too hard.My last system purchased whole was a P90. You do have to watch CPU/Board/Memory matching to get the best out of the system as a whole but it isn't hard. Does your friend have legacy components he wants to carry over? Even his old game controller might be a problem so check that out.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:16:12 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 16, 2017, 07:28:20 pmThank you! Cheap used hardware is nice, but often comes with that hidden cost. What good is cheap hardware if it drains your wallet when you turn it on.Look at TCO, not purchase price.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:17:37 pm
content: And for comparison, I looked at an Alineware Area-51, second from top at $2500. Probably a better CPU than I tossed out there.This guy is not much computer literate, and I suggested it's going to cost $2500 to build and now he's thinking $1200 is more in line. He wants a future proof PC and to play GTA5 and rainbow six siege with top graphics and all the mods on. I'm not much into games and would have to do research. I don't generally overclock and tend to pick a higher end CPU and ram with a good chipset so I don't have to hassle with it.I'm not sure I want to be his support person, but $1200 is not going to buy much of a high end gaming PC either.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:18:26 pm
content: I choose my components and payed some 20 EUR to the webshop for assembly. It is well worth the money IMHO.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:26:48 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 16, 2017, 09:23:42 pmPrebuilt systems are often worse. They are specced to barely meet the requirements and tend to be horrible to upgrade, due to a lack of flexibility. A rare handful of sellers of prebuilt systems will use proper parts, but most will sell you a system with nice components to put on the sticker, and bare minimum or fairly terrible ones for the rest of the system.Things like power supplies that don't have extra connectors or that barely produce enough power are fairly common. As an example, a lot of HP desktop computers won't even take regular ATX supplies, but some bullshit HP proprietary supply that costs an arm and a leg to replace, with higher power options not always available. To be fair, if you run them within spec, they are pretty solid.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 11:30:31 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on November 16, 2017, 11:18:26 pmOnly if it comes with a warranty on the full system, rather than the separate components.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 12:07:05 am
content: I saw this video by Linus. Which leads tohttps://www.pugetsystems.com/. Puget is in the USA which might matter to you?I have no affiliation with Linus or Puget, but just sharing info. It gives you an idea on what some builders do for custom built systems.Other than that, all my systems that I use personally are what people throwaway as too old, buggy, dead or virus filled. I haven't purchased a PC in long time now.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 12:13:15 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on November 16, 2017, 11:17:37 pmHonestly unless it's a good friend or family member well, someone you don't mind doing it for, i would stay away from helping them, otherwise you will be their support person and well, someone to blame if they are unhappy. If they want to take building on I would stay out of it personally, probably too much hassle. Unless you are getting paid. I could do a fair bit with 1200 but I mean you can go nuts on the high end trying to future proof, but the cost gets nutty trying to get the latest and greatest of every component. Too much a premium.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 12:18:40 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on November 16, 2017, 11:17:37 pm$1200 is enough for something fairly nice, unless he also needs peripherals.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 12:57:25 am
content: I just finished an I7-7700 build with a Gigabyte motherboard and 32 GB of RAM. The most expensive component was the 1 TB Samsung 960 EVO SSD. With water cooling and a Fractal Design tower + DVD drive, it came in around $2k.I did NOT pay the extra $700 for a high end gaming graphics card because I built the machine specifically to run Xilinx Vivado (FPGA software) and graphics isn't important.There are faster machines, there are slower machines. Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 12:59:57 am
content: I would suggest going with a cheaper GPU and better motherboard. A GPU is typically replaced one or more times during the lifetime of a gaming computer, while other components tend to last longer. It's also more of a pain to replace the motherboard, while replacing the GPU is easier. You will get a little less performance right away, but should have a better system in the long run. Also, 16 GB of RAM is plenty.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 01:24:56 am
content: For cheaper gpu look for manufacturer warranted refurbished gpu like these from EVGA:https://www.evga.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?type=8If I recall right, you get 1 year warranty. I got two GTX 750 Ti SC a few years ago, they are still crunching and I play some games (but nothing super demanding).Also. EVGA has specials every Wednesday, some free shipping, some instant rebates, so check it out.

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 02:40:33 am
content: https://pcpartpicker.com

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2019, 08:00:02 pm
content: I never buy new PCs. I buy (generally off-lease) Dell Optiplex (their commercial, as opposed to home-grade systems) on eBay for under $100 delivered. I generally get them without a hard drive, they are cheaper that way, and then add either a NEW hard drive or SSD. Never had a problem with these, I've got something like a dozen of them set up for various uses at home, some have run 12 years and STILL going strong.Jon

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 12:39:38 am
content: For desktops I always preferred to build because I can customize every detail to precisely what I want. I don't think it really saves much money these days but it's still fun to do. Whether to build or buy depends greatly on one's skill level and interests. I think the building and tweaking part is fun but if they just want to start gaming it's probably easier to buy a well rated gaming system. Games are one of the few applications these days where people tend to really need a lot of horsepower.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 12:10:23 pm
content: It's hard to give advice about what to buy, there's too many variables and there are new products and models being released regularly.If building your own I will say this though; buy a good brand name motherboard (I have had success with gigabyte in the past).Getting the thermals right can be tricky, especially if it's a high power pc.Quote from: james_s on May 30, 2019, 12:39:38 amIt was many years since I was into games now, so maybe it has changed (doubt it), but for a long long time it's been the gaming consoles that set the performance requirements for modern games. I.e. game developers usually target the gaming consoles, so the games has to be able to run on those, and they usually have pretty poor performance compared to a pc rig. I.e. you can get away with a pretty mediocre pc these days. You do want a dedicated gaming GPU though.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 03:49:44 pm
content: PC games tend to blow away console games in most cases, at least once the console has been out a few months. I haven't been a gamer for years but I still know a few and they're the only guys I know who still upgrade hardware regularly.Meanwhile I bought my laptop in 2015 and it's still plenty fast. I still remember when a top of the line pc would be almost useless a year or two later.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 04:24:57 pm
content: In theory yes, but in practice I don't think there are many pc only games any more, most are cross platform (or exclusive to a console brand). PC only games are usually mmorpgs, at least a few years ago, and those aren't usually that resource intensive.I don't really know what is popular anymore, but a quick search for pc games mentioned this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_LegendsWhich was launched this year: "It was released for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One on February 4, 2019, without any prior announcement or marketing." And both PS4 Xbox One are over 5 years old...Often games have settings where you can turn up the eye candy, and to get to the best graphics settings you might need a top notch machine, but the game must also run nicely on the 6 year old consoles, so it's not going to be necessary to play the games satisfactorily. Maybe there are a new console generation on the way with updated hardware, then you wouldn't want to spec your pc below that though.There might be some new pc only game that I'm not aware of that is very demanding, but I would guess they are few. Otoh, if you intend to buy a pc gaming rig maybe you have a specific pc only game in mind.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 06:48:38 pm
content: if me? i will build myself. for you? i will advice to buy premade brand name, why? because you asked. try to explain why i choose the decision for me is a long story... fwiw try this...https://www.pcgamer.com/best-cpu-for-gaming/i was thinking to upgrade my PC to game grade CPU, when looking at the price of CPU alone, i better stick with my 10yrs old Core 2 Quad 2.66GHz... now i know why game PC can cost 5X the normal PC... the processor alone is the cost of my whole PC, let alone colorful water cooled, tip top GPU and 9.1 1MSps sound card (well the last one is an exaggeration) not to mention the arm chair. funnily, my current monitor is rated asGaming Monitorbut that one is not really blood sucking expensive, blessed i'm not into gaming (it was long time ago that i've wasted so much time), i bought it just because my previous monitor (Samsung) acted funnily and looking for the same or bigger size and thats the best sold available by our best local shop.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 06:58:32 pm
content: Building PCs is pretty easy, and I've been doing it since the Intel 486. There really was no WWW then, and you had to order parts from distributors in magazines like Computer Shopper. I would usually never discourage anyone from trying...But, as you stated this computer is not even for you, its for a friend. I wouldn't try building my first computer when its for someone else. The margin on desktops is really small, and it honestly is unlikely that you will save that much money doing it yourself. A new pre-built system comes with a warranty, which your friend may appreciate. It also, kind of gets you off the hook if something goes wrong. Nothing wrong with doing a bit of research and presenting them with different options. Then, it is your friend's responsibility to decide which one to pick.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 06:15:46 pm
content: In all likelihood you'll spend *more* money if you build it yourself. The reasons for building a PC these days are mostly a matter of enjoyment, and the fact that you can build exactly what you want. If those factors are not important then just buy one that's ready to go, tested and doesn't require any tweaking or tuning. DIY can be a crapshoot, I've had systems I've built that were absolutely rock solid but I've also built a few that had various issues I never quite solved.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 11:54:08 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on May 30, 2019, 06:58:32 pm@JxR's advice is pretty spot on.Especially not a friend and most especially not a gamer. Stay friends. Advise and help them make their own choice.If you look at the marketing of computers and peripherals to gamers you can't excape thinking they are not easily satisfied. I suspect like audiophiles (not phools) they have to spend the money themselves on improvements to see value.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 12:27:31 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 31, 2019, 06:15:46 pmYou certainly can spend significantly less for the same thing if you don't buy ridiculous components. Also prebuilt computers usually are either overly expensive for given performance or/and built from cheapest crap assembler could get.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 05:13:06 am
content: I've assembled my own PCs in the past but it's a huge risk, not only of choosing compatible components or breaking something but even if something is DOA it can be awfully difficult to figure out which part it is if you don't have spares lying around, and even if you do you're faced with convincing them you didn't break it.Now, I always pick the components myself, but pay someone to assemble and test them.In NZ I've used Ascent and PBTech for this a few times each. If I recall, Ascent don't (or didn't) charge anything at all for assembling it -- they figured their savings in tech support made it worth while.I've just moved to the USA and a couple of weeks ago got a custom system from Adamant.com. They have prebuilt configurations too, or you can choose alternatives from a pop-up list, or you can send them a completely custom parts list.It's a beast! For large-scale programming for my work, not gaming. It does my most common operation (recompile one C++ file and relink a bunch of libraries and binaries) 52x faster (10s vs 8m46s) than my previous 4.2 GHz turbo quad core i7-8650 with 32 GB RAM, and most other things 6 to 8 times faster. It's also several times faster than the $30k Xeon servers at work, even when noone else is using them.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 07:19:54 pm
content: I'd say picking your own components and assembling them is a risk, but definitely not a huge risk. Do your homework and chances of things not working or not working right are slim. It's also worth remembering prebuilt systems don't always work right. Specific models or model ranges suffer from known issues which are hard to get acknowledged by the manufacturer. It typically needs to be fairly bad before action is taken.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 07:33:29 pm
content: If you have the time, build it yourself. Prebuilt PCs often cheap out on power supplies, motherboards, RAM or cases, and usually get the cheapest GPU with the stated chip available. You can also get it silent or near-silent if you spent a bit of effort to estimate how much dissipation you need.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 10:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on June 03, 2019, 07:33:29 pmYou can get all those advantages by picking the components yourself, but paying $50 or $100 someone who has tools, test equipment, spare parts they can swap to diagnose problems, and WHO BUILDS MULTIPLE COMPUTERS EVERY WEEK instead of one computer every three or four years (like I do).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 10:47:54 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on June 03, 2019, 10:06:34 pmThose tools are a cheap multimeter and a post card at best. And they usually have nearly zero understanding about what they are actually doing. It's a shitty minimum wage job.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 10:59:16 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on June 03, 2019, 10:06:34 pmIf you know someone that you trust enough to do a good job, sure. I don't.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 09:47:08 pm
content: I feel a lot of the latest posters do not realize this is an old thread, from a year and a half ago, and the OP is probably no longer looking for advice.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 06:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 04, 2019, 09:47:08 pmThere always someone who seems to necro an old thread back to life for reason which only they know. There are a few reason which are justifiable to do so, this is certainly not one of them. Maybe just some confusion when the new forum sections opened up in this case.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 01:45:36 pm
content: I always liken it to say a Car.Do you throw out the old one because it has flat tyres ??Why spend money unnecessarily Framework, Power Supply etc is ok...For a fraction of the cost, you can get a modern MotherBoard, & some extra RAM etc.And maybe a better 'Graphics Card', if all you are is a 'Gamer'. What is your goal??Probably 99% of people do not need the 'Power' they think they want/need.It's like buying a Lamborghini just to go round the corner to buy some Milk !!!Like the 'car', usually just too much Testosterone !!!

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 04:56:02 pm
content: Assuming all the basic needs are met (enough space, enough power):Better case => better thermals/airflow => more silent operation => more quality of life.Better PSU => better power efficiency => less operating costs.Also: Better PSU => generally more silent and more reliable.