Incredible lack of safety  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 01:37:24 pm
content: Incredible lack of electrical safety in a BMW engine factory in China.Look at 15.01

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 01:50:44 pm
content: I don't know much about those but is it really that dangerous? I mean yeah, it's not good or professional, but what are the chances of the thick wire having cut and somebody electrocuted.oh and it's China.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 02:02:30 pm
content: More about the cable having a phase conductor break off and the 3 phase machine losing a phase or neutral ( or the PE connection) and either blowing up a motor or cooking electronics that are not designed for having 400VAC applied instead of 230VAC. Those plugs and sockets have a reasonably good cable gland arrangement, and it really is good when done properly, keeping the mated plug at least capable of being washed down.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 02:07:57 pm
content: It is an industrial connector, it is not 110 V for sure...This is probably the tip of the iceberg.A conscientious worker could never agree to use a cable in this state ... He must immediately ask for his replacement or repair ...There is no respect for safety in this company ... This contrasts completely with the high-tech of their products ...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 02:55:35 pm
content: It was an interesting video to watch. I was satisfied with the level of Health & Safety present in the factory right up until the end. It was almost like test to see who was still paying attention to the endAs a BMW affiliate I suspect Health & Safety compliance is mandated. Issues do occur in a factory but a poorly terminated power connector would normally instigate an immediate Request for Repair. In the real world though, people do sometimes overlook issues like this in order to get the job done. It would normally be picked up on the next equipment routine inspection though.A pity that this error was not spotted by the film maker or those who approved its release. BMW would not be impressed. A good video to watch thoughFraser

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 03:28:10 pm
content: QuoteI don't think so....For me, it's a long time that this problem exist....It is not broken, it has been bad repaired and it will NEVER be picked up.Perhaps it will if somebody of BMW team read this post.....And video will be edited too....But this picture will not be edited.....

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 03:50:40 pm
content: I have been in modern factories in China and they still had 3 phase 400 V power cables open and without insulation running through the factory. And these factories were TS 16949 certified.May be it will still take a few years before factories in China will have the same level of safety as a European factory.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 04:14:12 pm
content: I don't recall ever being in an American factory where eye protection was not required. I guess it's different in China.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 04:38:31 pm
content: Aaaaaaaww!! Lovely to see an EU 3f plug with 230/400V! None of the 110/240V US rubbish

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 04:58:33 pm
content: Those lazy blokes seem to follow the rule of "if it ain't broke (yet), don't fix it!" They need to learn the rule of "if it looks like it's about to break, then fix it!""Hey boss, stick your finger in these loose wires you haven't fixed yet!"Any chance the hole was too small for the whole cable?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 07:37:33 pm
content: Not with that plug style and that orange trailing cable, they are kind of designed to work with each other. The cable is 5 core 4mm core cable in a double insulated jacket, and is designed to fit the gland of that plug system. It does have issues with any thin cables unless you use the optional rubber sleeves to make them large enough to be gripped by the gland. This one was probably pulled on hard a number of times to get it out of the latching socket, instead of actually walking over and lifting the socket lid, which is the latch.Properly done you can rip the socket out of the wall before that connection lets go or the cable pulls out.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 10:51:54 pm
content: the yellow sticker probably says "dont touch" in chinese.good enough in a building full of engineers.now if it was a public building or an office - well that's different (probably - maybe)

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2017, 11:47:08 pm
content: There's a reason production and manufacturing capability has been off-shored...

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 06:24:21 am
content: If you think that plant is dangerous, I will be all too happy to lead you on a tour right here in Murica that will make you change your underwear before you get out of the reception area.Connector issue aside, that's probably the most beautiful, cleanest, safest, pleasant-to-work-in casting facility on earth. I hope those workers realize just how good they have it. And I'm not being remotely facetious.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 06:42:41 am
content: What makes this lack of security incredible is exactly the setting in which it is located: a high-tech factory of German design and implantatiion with a Chinese DIY at the Mc Gijver way... !!!It's really shocking.This shows that German high technology has been transferred to China, but not the German quality and security spirit.A German worker would certainly never have agreed to power a connector in this state.QuoteThis is exactly what I mean......no need of security because nothing happened up to now....This is spirit of no security at all.....Waiting for somebody been electrocuted before to fix the problem...

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 06:54:52 am
content: Oh good grief... There was ONE problem that probably is fixed by now. The rest of that plant was outstanding and could be sited anywhere and get a pass from health and safety. That plant isn't that nice and safe because BMW and the Chinese workers and management don't care about safety.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 09:36:30 am
content: QuoteI believe that no one expects to see many cases in a promotional video of the BMW firm ... Seeing one is already revealing ....

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 10:00:28 am
content: I though I see something truely horrific, but no mild issue that can be found almost every bigger facility somewhere (because "idiots" pull plugs from cable and not from the plug itself). "Insurance and lawyer hazard".Should be fixed, it is potentially dangerous as the strain relief is not there and half of the insulation barriers aren't working.... It would be interesting to see inside to that plug, how is the PE (if any) is connected.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 10:20:31 am
content: Quote from: Vtile on July 16, 2017, 10:00:28 amTypically two M4 or M5 size screws but I'm not familiar with this short type of plug, haven't seen it before.PE is always used, neutral not in 4 pin connections but always in 5 pin connections.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 10:32:24 am
content: Quote from: The Soulman on July 16, 2017, 10:20:31 amThe question is if the PE is connected at all and if it is cut as should so it is relatively the longest cord and will detach last when the plug and cable is pulled apart mechanically. The plug seems to be a typical IEC 60309 series (3L-N-PE), I suspect 16A nominal from the diameter related to hands of the fellow in the video.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 12:10:09 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 15, 2017, 02:02:30 pmActually, most of these robots will have a phase monitor. If one of the phases drop it will shutdown and the better ones will blink a bright red LED to express their distress.It may also send an upset message on a bus (a network type bus, not a vehicular bus. Do they even make busses?).

author: VinzC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 02:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on July 15, 2017, 01:37:24 pmSo, if I get it right, the last picture of a 15 minutes video is enough to judge the whole factory and, while we're at it, a people?I guess *that* is being objective as that probably is the only thing that sticks out, right?

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 03:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: VinzC on July 16, 2017, 02:19:15 pmThe plant is high technology plant(german technology), spirit of security of workers does not correspond to this.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 04:26:28 pm
content: When I was on a Greek Island over a Cliff several Handrails where missing.Some Unattended Child who run around could die in seconds.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 08:46:41 am
content: Meh, that happens with those connectors sometimes.It will get fixed, probably next time they do an electrical inspection and test, or when someone notices.There is no particularly major danger here, and if I saw it I would probably just loosen the gland, stuff the cable in an inch or two and tighten the gland, then give it a quick test.This place does sometimes like to sweat the trivialities, and even a German plant needs maintenance because things do break (And even there, not always on a predictable schedule).Regards, Dan.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 02:59:18 pm
content: QuoteDone

author: tronde
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 05:03:43 pm
content: Lord of nothing, You have not been in Norway?604m straight line down.The authorities have opted not to install fencing or other safety devices as they felt it would detract from the natural beauty of the site and the fact that fatalities at the site are extremely rare, despite having approximately 200,000 visitors each year. Furthermore, there were concerns that fences or other devices might encourage dangerous behavior such as climbing onto the fences. It should also be noted that it is a policy from Norwegian authorities that "we cannot fence in all nature in this country", and this is supported by the Norwegian population who are generally more accustomed to "dangerous nature" of their country than foreign tourists.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preikestolen

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 05:17:19 pm
content: I dont talk about Nature more of the City Centre from the Greek Island.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 05:18:59 pm
content: Wow Preikestolen, been there when I was in scouts many many years ago, truly a once in a lifetime experience

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 11:20:18 pm
content: Why dont you whine about the crappy cooling system in BMW engines all made of plastic?Or that every single engnie family as stupid failures, from timing chains, to crap turbos, to intake butterflies that break, to timing chains, to heads that crack?And you get that on a "german engineering" "premium" brand, german engineering is the best marketing campaign in this century, they are a huge pile of crappy plastic made be Renault, with botched together engines designed by people on drugs due to all the dumb decisions that you can see when you get a wrench and work on the car, air filter and oil change, no problem, just remove 30kg of plastics and anti-roll bars and what not.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 11:34:06 pm
content: My car is a Mk4 Jetta, but its a pretty old design of tdi engine, and its a 15 year car, but the common rail engines and engines would break heads like no tomorrow, DPF filters that clog, and destroy your turbo and valves, warped blocks, half the problem is emissions control systems.. None the less BMW is pretty expensive for crap parts all around..Even better is Jaguars costing 6 figures made on BMW, VW and Ford platforms and then covered in leather with hot glue and staples lul.