Refurbish JBC T245 iron tips  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 05:26:57 pm
content: Hi,stupid question maybe, but is there any process that can refurbish my non-functional T245 iron tips. Tin doesn't stick to the surface of the tip anymore.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 05:58:33 pm
content: Clean with wet sponge and apply new solder, repeat several times. Be aware that some solder wires are way way better at wetting oxidized tips than others. Some are nearly useless for this purpose. Stuff with active flux often works worse than with barely activated colophony. If effect is not enough, buy tip reactivatorhttps://www.amazon.de/-/en/TechnikRat-TT15-Soldering-Reactivator-Lead-Free/dp/B00M1O7ZG0?th=1If there is thick crust on the tip, you may need to scrape it off. Don't use sandpaper on anything abrasive. Can use some sort of blade or flat screwdriver.

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 07:07:39 pm
content: This is how one of my tips looks like. I cleaned it several tips and tried to apply new solder, both lead and lead free. Nothing works. I will try that tip reactivator, hopefully it works. Thanks.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 08:01:33 pm
content: There's just pure Iron left, the good part of the tip is very likely nickel coated.I'd like to try to refresh those tips with galvanic nickel plating, even though I heard it's not recommended (no obvious reason why). I just didn't have time for it yet.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 08:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: MR on September 13, 2023, 08:01:33 pmActually iron does attract solder, nickel does not. You certainly don't want to nickel plate your tips. You can find nickel plating only on cheapest soldering irons where it is directly on copper, and that garbage cannot be tinned. Normally tips have thick iron plating on the wettable area. From the picture it's not quite clear if it's surface erosion or just crust covering the tip. For me it looks more like crust that can be scraped off. Some fluxes are very prone to producing that garbage which sticks to the tip strongly. It's basically impossible to remove by brass wool. Thermal shock from wet sponge helps quite a bit. Although not enough when crust had a lot of time to form a strong bond to the surface. In which case you need to scrape it off.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 10:48:13 pm
content: Wet sponge should be avoided when possible.Cleaning with a fine grit sandpaper is definitely an option, but as a very last resort (if the tip is seriously corroded or rusted). First to try would be brass wool, next tip re-tinner, then sandpaper. Something very fine like 1000 grit I've found works OK.Its hard to tell in your photo if the plating is cracked or if there is something on the surface. Do you have a microscope?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/soldering-iron-tip-care-myth-dont-use-abrasives-on-the-tip/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 11:12:00 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 13, 2023, 10:48:13 pmFor regular soldering at lead free temperatures you should avoid using wet sponge too often. For leaded wet sponge is fine for everyday use. However for restoring properties of the tip it's the least destructive thing you could do.QuoteForget about brass wool, it's useless for this. If you see crust, scrape it off. To minimize damage you could use some material with lower hardness than iron plating, for example a piece of aluminum or brass. And you'd be an idiot to use sandpaper. It will quickly grind through iron plating in clean areas but it will relatively poorly remove crust on dirty areas. Until you'll fully remove all of the crust, you'll be half way through iron plating. Just scrape it off, better result and much safer.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 11:32:00 pm
content: Please read the thread linked.You'd only sand the rusted areas and avoid any sharp or clean edges. Of course this may be too difficult for some or not possible on certain tip geometries. But on regular conical or chisel tips its not that hard. Never really had the need to scrape off crust when using brass wool, its just rust on the used tips that I bought.Anyway, hard to tell what issue OP has without a better photo.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 12:25:39 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 13, 2023, 11:32:00 pmI see that thread starting video of with low quality tip production where material is grinded intentionally, which has nothing to do with maintenance of the tip. And far fetching conclusions based on that. It's like saying you can drill another hole in the car engine just because holes were drilled during its production. Totally misleading thread title. And in this case you want to avoid removing material as much as possible. Tip on the photo actually looks in pretty good dimensional shape.QuoteUnless you put it in a special fixture which allows to precisely keep the sanding angle, this is nearly impossible to do. Also usually it's not rust but crust that can remain from some fluxes burning, especially if tip was not cleaned often enough. It's like dental calculus deposits, would you use sandpaper to remove those? There is no reason to ever use abrasives on the tip other than if it's a very worn unusable tip with caved in surfaces and you want to reshape surfaces flat to get a tiny bit more use of it before throwing out. Why would you even consider using strong abrasives on the tip when there are way less destructive ways to scrape off the crust? Yes you can clean the tip with abrasives, but why would you do that if it's almost certainly will significantly reduce remaining lifetime of the tip?

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 06:01:15 am
content: Detail of the tip. I ordered the tip reactivator from Amazon. If that doesn't help I will try some abrasive method.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 06:52:52 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 13, 2023, 08:27:18 pmare you sure? To be honest, it's just my research, and the JBC solder tips look like nickel plated (maybe they use some silver composition too).I just took some nickel and added solder to it it's absolutely no problem it attaches easily and very well.The JBC tips look like coated.https://www.batronix.com/shop/soldering/tips/jbc/c245.htmlthere's a picture however the tin(TiN?) layer is not explained.The crust on his solder tip is not caused by the solder itself, it's part of the solder tip and when removed the solder tip renders close to useless.https://www.jbctools.com/c245772-nickel-chisel-cartridge-14-x-07-product-869.htmlthey also have nickel tips.You might contact JBC directly about that topic, I just sent them an email and quickly received an answer.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 08:36:10 am
content: Quote from: gaminn on September 14, 2023, 06:01:15 amIt's certainly crust. Reactivator won't help much, as it mainly restores oxidized surface but you need to clean dirt. However it may be helpful after removing the dirt. Scrape it with some piece of metal. You can first try something with lower hardness. But IME even tool made from hardened steel won't damage the tip. Also scraping while tip is hot may help to reduce crust adhesion. Again, don't use abrasives. Crust comes off in pieces when you scrape it, no need to sand.I guess powerful oven cleaners might help to release crust but I haven't tried that.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 08:51:01 am
content: Quote from: MR on September 14, 2023, 06:52:52 amThis comes from burned flux. This garbage sits on top of the tip itself, you can look on the picture and see its edges are elevated above the tip itself. I inspected under microscope and successfully removed such crust with no damage to the tip many times. If you see crust forming on the tips, clean tips more often and consider changing solder wire you use.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:01:10 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 14, 2023, 08:51:01 amNo it is not, I have had this issue with other JBC solder tips a few years ago first it started with a small area only if you try to remove the rest of it it will stick nowhere anymore.Do you have a JBC soldering station and use JBC solder tips?He removed a quite large part of it already from this tip that's why it's kind of unusable already.Maybe it's this particular solder tip and how this one is manufactured, we are using other similar ones and they seem to behave differently.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:17:51 am
content: I just found an old crusty tip in my drawer and cleaned as I suggested. Scraped off the crust, used wet sponge and brass wool for cleaning remaining dirt and re-tinned multiple times to restore the surface. Took less than 5 minutes.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:27:00 am
content: This is not a JBC solder tip. Really the JBC tip will have an issue if this is surface is gone.Look how evenly the shiny part is around the tip - that's from the manufacturer and not caused by the flux.I removed that part back then too and it just damaged the tool more, while it might look ok the tip will quickly continue to degrade.I think it happened with a similar tool as the original poster used, when using another tool from JBC it did not happen (both obtained from an official distributor in Germany back then).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:27:45 am
content: Quote from: MR on September 14, 2023, 09:01:10 amThen use wet sponge and tip reactivator on cleaned tip to restore the surface. Also try different solder wires. I have one particular Cynel SAC307 solder with mildly activated rosin flux which restores tip wettability very well, order of magnitude better than any other solder I have. So I don't even remember where I put tip reactivator jar because didn't need it for years.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 11:16:31 am
content: That makes sense, reactivating the tip should restore the entire layer.I haven't had this issue for a long time while no parameter changed on our side, so either the tips have changed or the solder manufacturer changed something to avoid this problem.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 02:16:06 pm
content: When asking JBC they answered that the tip is made of Nickel indeed.So if this is made of Nickel something is wrong because the tip seems to be barely used and the nickel surface seems to be almost gone (and my current tips can be used until most of the tip material disappears).

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 02:47:17 pm
content: Guys, I remember, I sporadically used this tip also for melting ABS plastic - the 300°C tip touched ABS for a max 1 second, I did that maybe 20 times. I'm quite sure I didn't clean the tip after that. Can't burning ABS eat the nickel plating?

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 05:32:39 pm
content: I can only say 200°C PLA is no problem (I do that for ditching things together sometimes)230°C ABS was no problem either here (I fixed some plastic stuff). But I never used 300°C for plastic.The biggest one I use right now is C245-741 (261293, maybe lot number)other ones in my solder iron: c245-001 (196734) (two of them where one is almost dead), c245-957 (186245)All of them for around 3 years now.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 05:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: gaminn on September 15, 2023, 02:47:17 pmAgain, there is no nickel plating. ABS will make the tip non wettable, which you can restore by wet sponge and applying solder multiple times, or tip reactivator is that isn't enough. Of course after you clean the tip first, there must be no crust.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 05:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: MR on September 15, 2023, 02:16:06 pmThere may be nickel, but not on solder wettable area. Nickel may be present in internal layers or on the surface of the rest of the tip, but in more expensive stuff outer plating is usually chromium. If you plate wettable area with nickel, tip will simply refuse to attract solder.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 05:55:42 pm
content: Tin Layer means that this layer has to be used with Tin - once this layer disappeared the tip has to be replaced (=direct answer via email from JBC).Chrome doesn't attract to solder.As mentioned tin is attracted to nickel directly, please do some research about that before pointing out that solder does not attach to it.If you find other information please point out to the corresponding source.I tested soldering to Nickel and it works very well.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 06:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: MR on September 15, 2023, 05:55:42 pmAnswer - spend more money on consumables they'll sell to you. Tin layer means solder on the tip. You cannot make magical tin layer which will not be dissolved by solder. Once solder is gone and iron becomes exposed to air, it will oxidize and no longer attract solder. But it can be restored quite easily.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 06:33:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 15, 2023, 06:00:45 pmYou try to turn an easy answer to a difficult one. Tin layer is the layer/material which allows tin to attach to the solder iron. Once this layer is gone the solder tip has to be replaced."Bezüglich Ihrer Frage zu ‚tin‘, damit ist gemeint, dass sie mit Zinn genutzt wird und nach Oxidieren getauscht werden muss. Die Spitze als solche ist lediglich aus Nickel."Use chatgpt to translate it yourself this is the original answer.Also from this answer I'd interpret that the iron and copper layers are not meant to carry tin on the JBC solder tips.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solderability

author: gtm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 06:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: MR onTodayat 04:16:06What on earth are you talking about? There no exposed nickel plating on JBC tips.There is some in between the chrome and iron layers, and that's because chrome doesn't electroplate very well directly onto iron.The "tin layer" in the diagram is referring either to the actual "solder layer", in which case it could be called "tin-lead" or "tin-whatever layer".Or perhaps is referring to the iron that has been wetted with tin, in which case it should be called "iron-tin intermetallic layer".Either way it's not nickel.Just to be clear, I'm referring to the normal tips not the "exotic" ones, made of teflon, titanium or, like the C245-772, of a chunk of solid nickel for HMP solder (no copper on that one apparently).

author: gtm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 07:23:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper onTodayat 07:51:21You are mistaken. Nickel wets at least just as well, probably better, than iron. It also doesn't oxidate as much when hot, and it's got better thermal conductivity.If it wasn't for the fact that it dissolves in tin rather quickly it will be the perfect protective coating for copper tips.I once had a Weller iron, with an MT10 tip (nickel coated, instead or iron), and it wetted and performed great. It only lasted me 3 months though.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 01:57:36 am
content: Quote from: gtm on September 15, 2023, 06:59:46 pmIt's not entirely sure what the "tin" Layer is made of. However they separate the tin layer vs iron layer otherwise the diagram wouldn't make any sense. " in which case it could be called "tin-lead" or "tin-whatever layer"." ... you are right.We're just guessing at that point. The German sentence was an answer from JBC itself which mentioned nickel.So I'm also curious if refreshing the tip will work he ordered a small can for trying that as far as I know.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 11:19:39 pm
content: There is a JBC tip patent but makes no mention of materials other than copper:https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1086772A2/enHakko patent that talks about all kind of iron/copper/nickel alloys how they might last longer:https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2005056227A1/enhttps://patents.google.com/patent/JP2011245552A/en"As described in this document, instead of conventional iron plating, an Fe-Ni alloy plating is used at the forward end of the soldering iron tip, or an Fe-Ni alloy covering member (a bulk material) is provided to improve soldering performance.""However, as described above, in iron-nickel alloy plating, the life of the tip of the iron tip and the suction nozzle (collectively referred to as the soldering iron tip in this specification) is oxidized, and the life of the tip (the wettability of the hang) is reduced. Although it gradually declined and finally became wet), the life due to the erosion of the solder was equivalent to that of iron-plated products."Nickel electro plating should not be too hard, need some acid and pure nickel. Let us know how it goes.The thermal conductivity of nickel vs iron is not much different at 330C (~60W/mk?). Supposedly the alloy was superior (170W/mk), if you could somehow form that.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 03:55:10 am
content: Looks like the darker area is glassy flux/contamination. If so I'd try cleaning it off or soaking in acetone before rejuvenator and replating, neither of those will necessarily help improve this. Sometimes it takes dozens of deliberate brushes with brass wool to start to abrade a stubborn baked on flux off. If you use anything more abrasive though then you risk weakening the almost non existent iron plating.I hope this tip is an original JBC, saving a regular JBC tip is almost a total waste of time in itself.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 09:10:55 am
content: https://www.jbctools.com/tt-a-tip-tinner-product-134.htmlthis is what JBC recommends to use in case of the first post.Attached some information from JBC how to handle the tips.

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 03:20:52 pm
content: Today I discovered what damaged my JBC iron tips. It is this steel, cu plated, wire for RJ11 connectors. Once again, I had difficulties to solder it. Even when wires were tinned it was extremely difficult to create a nice solder joint. After I tried third iron tip hoping it will get better I realized I was damaging my tips, they were no more working as expected.After changing the wire for 100% Cu wire, I got nice solder joints with no damage to any tip.Fortunately, it is possible to carefully scrape off the layer created on the tip, so they work again.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 04:08:07 pm
content: Steel? Or aluminum? Copper-clad aluminum is awful to tin, because it’s so easy to dissolve away the copper, leaving only unsolderable aluminum. To tin and solder that, you must workextremelyfast.(Not that steel or aluminum in any way explains damaging your tips.)

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 06:33:03 pm
content: It was the cheapest cable available, so I'm quite certain it was steel.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 08:51:11 pm
content: Quote from: gaminn on October 06, 2023, 06:33:03 pmSteel wires are springy and strands hard do bend. CCA strands are very soft.