bench multimeter for someone learning - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mastershake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 03:56:02 pm
content: one more piece to this kids (he is 19 and looking like this is what he wants to do or at least something in a similar field) puzzle. he was showing me the owon bench meters and i personally have zero experience with them. any thoughts? anything better for the money? he has a nice fluke handheld and wants a bench unit. budget is low but want something thats at least decent. he saw the owon 1041 or the 2041 which i think he likes a bit better being a larger footprint he can stack vs the skinny 1041 as examples but again i have no idea if they are garbage or not. he is learning and will either go off on his own or maybe work for me (if im still around then) once he gets some experience. in the meantime i kind of took him under my wing and am teaching him. he is an excellent student so far and this is something he is highly interested in. he is trying to complete his bench setup and pf course has a budget. any other models to recc. i got him to go for the slightly better oscope in the siglent and that did eat up a bit more then he hoped. i told him use the fluke for now and he mat do that but he really would like a bench unit. should he spend a bit more and if so for what? again i have not bought much new myself personally except soldering stations in the past few years.as always you guys are awesome and i very much appreciate the help.

author: CountChocula
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:01:53 pm
content: Hiya! I have the 1041 and, to be honest, I don't love it. It is highly capable (especially for the price), but some of the decisions that were made with its design are dealbreakers for me. For one thing, it takes a considerable amount of time to boot (and you have to hold your finger on the power button, which means that you can't just get it started and move on to something else while you wait for it to be ready). The keyboard is a bit mushy, and the unit is so light that it keeps moving around. The settings reset with every reboot, and, in my opinion, the defaults have not been well chosen. Finally, the continuity mode is really slow, even compared to my cheap no-name brand handheld.For about the same amount (or less, even), you can get a used HP 3458, which is (IMO) a great bench multimeter—solidly built, fast, and reliable. I keep both on my bench, and the HP gets a lot more use—it's just way more convenient—unless I need a function that it doesn't support (diode, capacitance, or continuity).—CC

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:10:08 pm
content: My daily driver is the Vicy VC8145 bench meter for about 10 years already. 4.5 digits and anything you need from a general purpose DMM. I also have a Keysight 6.5 digit bench DMM but I'm using that one rarely; only when I need the extra precission.Uni-t also has some interesting models nowadays but you'd have to check reviews about these.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:13:16 pm
content: Quote from: CountChocula on March 24, 2023, 05:01:53 pmPretty sure you slipped a digit here. Probably HP 3468A/B or 3478A? Other options to consider is the Keithley 199/196 series or Fluke 8840A. Both have better displays than the HP units of that era.If you're in the US then spending some time watching eBay and needing some minor repairs may not be a bad trade-off compared to a cheap meter with bad usability. I haven't used the Owon meter, but that's what it sounds like to me based on the description of the Count.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 05:24:34 pm
content: At $100-120 for a 3478A on ebay I find that hard to beat. The age makes the LM399 very stable over time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 06:03:10 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on March 24, 2023, 05:24:34 pmWith an utterly horrible, non-backlit LCD display? No thanks! Feature and comfort wise, these old meters can't hold a candle compared to the low cost, modern bench DMMs you can buy nowadays. When I went looking for a bench DMM a decade ago, even the VC8145 came out on top compared to the old junk -which didn't get any younger-.

author: CountChocula
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 06:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: alm on March 24, 2023, 05:13:16 pmEh, what's a digit among friends?Thanks for catching this!

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 08:10:20 pm
content: I would say a Siglent or Owen meter is a cheap beginner meter. I you want a meter that will last many years looks at Keithley DMM6500 or Keysight 34461A (Note: Keysight do not support their equipment, what you buy is what you get, do not expect any bug fixes or software updates).You can get cheaper meters from China, I have tested a couple, but I would not rate them as real serious bench meters. They work, but are not in the same class (East tester is close).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 08:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: HKJ on March 24, 2023, 08:10:20 pmDon't make the mistake that bench meters are all about precission. For regular use, you just need handheld features with a mains cord. I would not want to use my 34461A as a daily driver DMM. Hell no; it kills productivity.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 09:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2023, 08:57:22 pmI did not assume that bench was about precision, the parameters I like about bench meters are:Can run for any amount of time without turning off4 terminal ohmCan be read and logged from a computer.Easy readable display (Display with lights are much easier to read on my bench that low contrast LCD meters).Good precision (I use 6½ and 7½ meters). In most cases it is not very important.Generally I would not use a bench meter away from the bench (I do have a couple of test setups not directly on my bench), there I would take a handheld fit for the job (hopefully).

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 09:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2023, 06:03:10 pmMay I ask what 5.5 digit sub-$150 meter you would recommend? I'm not aware of any current products in that price range except perhaps a *very* lucky ebay buy. There's a current ebay 3478A listing with a $38 bid. I have 3 and never paid more than $120 + $10-15 shipping.I normally use the pair of 34401As next to the pair of 3478As. I have the latter for logging PSU V & A via GPIB using an AR488. If bling is important a newer DMM design is obviously better. But if you want 5.5 digit accuracy and high reliability on a budget, I'd like to know of something that will beat the price/accuracy of a 3478A. Adding a backlight today is pretty simple. The work is all in taking it apart and putting it back together.Full service data is available, as is OSSW to control them via GPIB, and a member of the 3478A design team has been sighted on the HPAK list. So user support is a non-issue.Old high quality DMMs are more stable over time than a new one using the same voltage reference. Generally speaking old voltage references are superior because they have *years* of burn-in rather than days.If all you want is 4.5 digits, there are a lot of choices. All depends on what you want in bench meter. I frequently use "Free with any purchase" Harbor Freight 3.5 digit handheld DMMs. Probably more often than any other DMM. But I've got slew of them scattered all over in various drawers (e.g. where I store dry cells), toolboxes and other places I often want one.Perhaps you could educate us about the "better" alternatives.Reg

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 09:52:49 pm
content: Quote from: mastershake on March 24, 2023, 03:56:02 pmThe best thing he can learn - because it will last a lifetime and be useful in all situations - is to understand the strengths and limitations of whatever equipment he has available.Once he does that, he will know how to push his equipment capabilities to the limit, and where those limits are. Then, if the available equipment can't do the next job, he will be able to state what is needed and why.Examples: how can you measure voltages to 0.1%, if you only have a 2% meter, a length of wire, a battery, and one voltage accurate to 0.1%. That's what we learned to do as kids at school.Or if your objective is to create the world's fastest oscilloscope, what scope do you use to verify its performance? Ditto most accurate voltmeter?Or if you are stuck on-site trying to fix a problem with inadequate test gear, how can you infer the problem with whatever test equipment is available.Summary: sometimes adversity breeds excellent outcomes, whereas money allows lazy thinking.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 10:07:05 pm
content: I have the old Fluke 8050a. It's dirt cheap nowaday. It's fully manual and is basically Volt, Ohms and Milliamp meter no fancy function but I like it a lot.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 10:08:17 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on March 24, 2023, 09:51:59 pmI already mentioned two other used models. I see two completed listings for Keithley 199 meters that finished at $80, and one parts only but mostly functional for $95. In my opinion the Keithley 199 has the best display I've seen in any meter. Huge LED digits that are readable from across the room with a huge viewing angle. Looking at completed Fluke 8840A listings, I see quite a few below $150. For the Fluke 8840A you have to be careful if the AC option is installed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 10:44:58 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on March 24, 2023, 09:51:59 pmAll you need for daily use is 3.5 or 4.5 digits. For making quick measurements, see what kind of voltage is there, quick continiuty, check a resistor, check a capacitance value. All this doesn't need great precission but it needs a big, easy to read display and snappy operation. As I wrote before I use a VC8145 bench DMM myself for about a decade. I bought this after looking at a couple of dozen bench DMMs (including used ones) so this is not a device I ended up 'by luck'. It is a carefully made selection to cater for my everyday use. I wanted a bench DMM primarily because it doesn't need batteries and is stackable. I have 3 bench DMMs and only have 1 handheld DMM (a good one which I use very rarely). Going price for a VC8145 is around $150 (IIRC) but there are cheaper (sub US $100) options from Uni-T and others nowadays. You may find the 3478A a good meter but I have stepped into that trap before and ended up with old, outdated test equipment. It is old technology from the previous millenium missing a lot of feature (capacitance measurement on a DMM is extremely handy for example).

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 12:55:09 am
content: Clearly you don't think much of a Tek 11801 with a 20 GHz SD-24 TDR head and 40 GHz SD-32. So last millenium.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 01:15:42 am
content: Quote from: rhb on March 25, 2023, 12:55:09 amOld junk is old junk. Only useful if you really have nothing else available. About 5 or 6 years ago I bought some HP6024A DC power supplies thinking I bought some nice quality HP gear. I quickly got a wakeup call telling me I was getting old myself. I had bought some really old stuff! I had to change all the electrolytics, do some repair, re-attach mains wiring to the board (I could pull the wires out from the solder joints) and fitted temperature control to the fans so they would not be so loud. About 2 years ago I replaced the old HP supplies with 6 brand new PSUs from Rek and Gophert that have the same power rating. The new PSUs need 10 times less volume (so more easier to place somewhere on the bench), no fan and surprisingly accurate digital readouts (including power) for the price of around 50 euro each. Nevertheless people pay $100 for HP 6024A power supplies without any warranty on Ebay

author: MrYakimovYA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 02:01:45 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2023, 08:57:22 pmExcuse me, what's wrong with 34461a? I have it at my work office. I think it's very good model. I also fall in love with Agilent/HP 34401a. It's VFD looks very seriously. I also have an everyday horsework GW Instek GDM-8145 4.5 digit multimeter. It's fully manual but it has widely known ICL7135 inside, and this DMM is just beautiful.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 02:21:43 am
content: HP 3468A, 3478A - No diode test function, they also need a backup battery in it to secure calibration data. Okay maybe diode test function isn't important for everyone but I use it to find shorts in mobile phones and laptop mobo. The electrolytic caps probably need a refresh as well mines leaking when I got itFluke 8840A is old and the ROM chips are about time to go. So replace them and you are good to go. VFD maybe a bit dim. Again no diode test function. This device is a magical instrument that is factory calibration accurate after decades. I tested with vishay metal 0.01% resistors reading with the 4 wire test it passed with flying vacuum fluro display colours.Both are very good meters I used them for a few years before upgrading to 34401a.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 04:23:59 am
content: geez why going that far with all the big names 34461a 34401a 3478 etc ....for a beginner / learner, any basic bench one will do, you have to start somewhere no ?Dont start someone with vfd based ones, or ones with unobtanium parts etc ...just pick an standard bench dmm, you even have some dmm chart lists in the instrument section here ...yeah it will be always discuttable andonce again a never ending threadand old stuff got prices hikes etc ....

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 05:42:12 am
content: Oh wow, I'm not sure which is more ludicrous, bringing up the 34461A in a beginner discussion or saying the VC8145 is better for daily use. You could have just mentioned the Vici by itself and no one would have caught on to your mental disorder! ("Pro-tip" on the 34461A and similar: spend a few minutes configuring the default display configuration for each function with statistics for example and save it as the power-up config.)Both the Vici and the Owon models have some pretty serious flaws as mentioned by various online reviewers but that may not matter here.A common tactic for parents is to buy their kids cheap stuff to start, because neither is sure whether it's just a phase or something serious.So I don't think even $150 makes a ton of sense for a beginner, especially if they already have a DMM. Spend the money on breadboards, components, a 3D printer, a scope, ESR meter, whatever.It's true many of the older bench DMMs are missing useful features, but you can combine it with a decent handheld and be pretty far ahead. Unfortunately it is also true that the pressure from inflation and supply-chain issues on the higher end models is generally raising the prices of used gear. But the deals can still be found if you're diligent and have a specific needed feature in mind.The Fluke 8840A and 8842A are objectively excellent at their provided functions, with a big, bright VFD display, three update speed choices, 4-wire capability, front/rear terminals, and dedicated buttons for everything. But I'm not seeing this route for someone starting out.I'm a fan of test equipment DIY kits for learning. You can build something that can also be used on the bench afterwards.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 02:40:36 pm
content: Quote from: MrYakimovYA on March 25, 2023, 02:01:45 am34461A: slow continuity, whiny fan, slow to start. Sometimes more is less. I only use it when I need better than 4.5 digit precission.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 05:09:17 pm
content: The 34461 is a pretty expensive meter. There are likely not that many used ones around to make them afordable. Chances are many would prefer a DSO that can be had for 1/2 the price.It is a reasonable meter, but not really needed for a beginner.For a beginner one usually does not need high accuracy - the point that makes the 3478 / 3468 attractive is getting 100 nV resolution due to a 30 mV range. For most beginners it is already overkill, but these 2 type come up used relative frequent in the US for price comparable to a lower end new bench DMM. The LCD display can be a bit hard to read under poor light conditions.From the functions the 3478 can provide it is a definite step up from the VC8145 or the XDM1041 - however old and used and it may need some maintainace / repair (battery and maybe capacitors) soon.Still the GPIB interface for the computer may add quite some costs if wanted.A bench meter is usually not such a high priority - most things can also be done with a usually cheaper handheld. One of the reasons to want a bench meter may be for tranfering data to the computer - most bench meters can, but only few of the handhelds and this comes with limits from the battery power.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 05:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on March 25, 2023, 05:09:17 pmBut the 3478A is missing lots of modern day features like capacitance, continuity, frequency, AC rms in dBm, temperature, dual value display (AC + frequency for example), averaging, etc. All features which the VC8145 (for example) does have. And all very handy features to have for general purpose use. In the end 3478A is a voltmeter, it is not a DigitalMultipurposeMeter that meets today's DMM standards (which is probably what the OP is looking for).QuoteNo. Why would computer data transfer be important? To me it is not. The main reason for having a bench DMM for me is that it never runs out of batteries, it is stackable and doesn't clutter my desk like handhelds tend to do. I used to have a few handhelds but I got rid of them. Recently I sold a brand new U1281A that was sitting on one of my shelves for a a couple of years already. I have no use for handhelds on my bench. In addition, a decent handheld also costs quite a bit of money so if a bench DMM is a better fit, then it is better to go for the bench DMM right from the start.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 05:57:35 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on March 25, 2023, 05:09:17 pmIt depends on what you want to do. If 100nV resolution, 4W ohms and ultimate precision are your goals, perhaps a 3478 is OK. I have one, it works perfectly and I never use it. I don't have a VC8145, but if I had only those two meters I'm pretty sure I'd use the VC8145 at least 90% of the time. You can use it with an RS232 connection andHKJs TestController program (or the included software, no idea if it is any good) without having to deal with GPIB. It also has many more useful features such as capacitance, frequency, dual display and TRMS AC+DC. And then there's the 300V limitation of the HP3478. So the Vici is essentially an economical full-featured meter that more or less replicates the functions of a decent hand-held in bench form. At the under $150 price point, I'm not sure what else there is that isn't utter trash.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 06:50:52 pm
content: I feel like we are jumping too far in the recommendation when so little is known about the need, use case, and budget. Perhaps the OP can share more so the community can make a better recommendation.

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 07:20:24 pm
content: suggesting FLUKE 45dual display ; min\max ; REL ; diode ; FREQ ; 5.5D ; reasonable accuracyreasonable price around 120 - 160 USD , hunting on ebay, need to look at display brightness

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 07:33:24 pm
content: Quote from: NoisyBoy on March 25, 2023, 06:50:52 pmVery possibly the person thinking about buying the meter actually knows less about what he needs than us random lot of kibitzers.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 01:55:02 am
content: If the 34461A fan noise doesn't mesh with your other equipment, then a common mod is a Noctua fan. It doesn't impact the calibration from my testing. I used the 20mm thick one personally, and actually lowered the speed even a bit more to make it nearly silent.The Fluke 45 has a serial port and Test Controller support (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/), so that is somewhat compelling. No 4-wire or rear jacks, though.Looking at the OP's other posts it seems they are mostly interested in the bleeding-edge cheap stuff, so I don't think the old pro gear is what they are looking for.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 02:32:31 am
content: Quote from: HKJ on March 24, 2023, 09:37:58 pmYou can get all that from a meter with Siglent written on it.So, the OP is looking for something budget friendly and you are touting $1500+++ Keithley or Shitsight instruments?Whatever. 7.5 digits?I would imagine any of the Siglents are already out of his price range.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 02:58:35 am
content: What about one of these:Cheap, small, comes with warranty...

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 03:02:16 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 26, 2023, 02:58:35 amThe only thing I don't like about them is they are not stackable, but for a beginner that has not yet lost his mind buying T&M equipment it might just be the ideal solution.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 03:10:54 am
content: I think the Vici VC8145 is the best choice here, if the op is dead set on buying a bench meter.That Owon gets removed from my possible buy list due to the idiotic "Trigger" indication that does nothing but take up screen space.

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 05:13:48 am
content: owon was as suggestion at the first post, and question about XDM2041 as well, that XDM2041 in US$250 territory . so question what the budget ? 250-300 USD possible to find a very reasonable device.personally for owon thingi -they have a switching noisy PSU and in overall a bit sluggish , I would say it not a total garbage, but would be some dissatisfaction down the road .VC has alot of empty space inside ( fun for improvement, but not a beginners)https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMVici%20VC8145%20UK.html

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 10:31:24 am
content: Quote from: GigaJoe on March 26, 2023, 05:13:48 amYes, but this has been derailed into the usual discussion of unobtainable boat anchors.Quote from: GigaJoe on March 26, 2023, 05:13:48 amA meter doesn't have to be for life, this is just to get somebody started who might not even be doing this a year from now.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 12:01:46 pm
content: The OP hasn't given life for a whilei think this thread is going nowhere

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 12:37:19 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 26, 2023, 12:01:46 pmFilm at 11. :-)These people want a simple answer, something they can one-click order on Amazon. They don't want to be told to go out and trawl the local flea-markets to see if they can find an old classic that still works.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 02:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: mastershake on March 24, 2023, 03:56:02 pmIf it's just about having a meter that doesn't use any more space on the work surface, but is otherwise comparable to a handheld, look at old 100-series Keithley meters. (For the LCD models, look for the "-A" versions with backlit displays.) I have a couple of 197's and they're nice little meters. Should be able to find something for around $100. Just keep the Fluke handheld for continuity, since they don't have it at all.On the other hand, if it's about high performance (which at this point in his learning is a luxury, nothing more), then look at the used market for the Keithley 2000, 2015, 2016, or 2700. I have the 2015 and it's a magnificent device that is my primary multimeter: fast, easy to use and set up, great continuity tester, oh and did I mention it's fast? But with today's prices, consider yourself lucky to find one for under $500.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 02:56:16 pm
content: So, for those suggesting thisbeginnergo look for a pricey used meter, are you going to help him with that process?How about help him fix whatever might be wrong with it? Oh, and take him through the calibration process?He's a beginner.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 03:12:09 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 26, 2023, 02:56:16 pmKeep in mind that is 'beginner' is in the US, where used meters do not have to be so pricey. The prices I quoted where from recently completed listings, not some hypothetical local flea market deal from a decade ago.Quote from: BillyO on March 26, 2023, 02:56:16 pmWhy would a beginner need a calibrated meter? Do the Owon or Vichi meters come with a cal certificate? Just compare a bunch of readings to your existing handheld.The choices appear to be:An affordable meter with shitty usability (Owon, random AliExpress special)An affordable meter with very limited performance / functionality (Vichi)An affordable used meter with better performance and usability, but might require some time.An expensive meter of the brand you're apparently a fanboy of.When I started out, I first went for option #1: a barely usable Metex bench meter that was a waste of money (for example the continuity beeper would takemultiple secondsto respond), and then #3: a used but functional HP 3468A, and this was in the EU, so shipping was not super cheap. I really wanted four wire ohms to measure low value resistors, and I didn't have a stable external current source (my bench supply was part of the same unit as the shitty meter). Based on that, I would recommend option 3 (based on personal experience) or 2 (based on nctnico's reports).

author: MrYakimovYA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 03:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 26, 2023, 02:58:35 amAnd lightweight) I think you must hold it with arm when you are goint go push some button

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 04:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: MrYakimovYA on March 26, 2023, 03:22:21 pmWeight is easy to add...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 04:09:14 pm
content: (but really you'd probably put your hand on top and push buttons with your thumb. Pushing horizontally with an index finger isn't very ergonomic anyway)

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 04:24:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 26, 2023, 04:05:29 pmSo that's the genius of the VC8145's mechanical design: Lots of space to add weight

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 04:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on March 26, 2023, 01:55:02 amI think that the OP is looking for bleeding edge but cheap stuff. I really think if someone is still learning a basic but professional grade meter is more useful even if it's fully manual.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 05:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: alm on March 26, 2023, 04:24:18 pmIt's a good place to hide gold ingots. Nobody would ever think of looking there.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 09:43:38 pm
content: So far we have discussed units from Owon, Uni-t and Vici where the ones from Owon don't receive much love. Are there any other contenders in the -say- $150 segment? I'm up for buying another (cheap) bench DMM but I'm wondering if something else came onto the market that rivals the VC8145? The rotary knob on the Uni-t models doesn't appeal to me so those are out.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 09:59:33 pm
content: Maybe this is something for you:ET3240I had positive experiences with their LCR meter, maybe the same applies to their DMM.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 10:27:57 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 26, 2023, 09:59:33 pmInteresting but continuity is too slow for my taste:When I test continiuty between two points (call them A and B) I actually make 3 measurements: A-A, A-B and B-B to make sure the probes are actually making contact. So fast (instant) continiuty is something I rate as extremely important.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 11:26:18 pm
content: Hm..The used probes could make a difference too, the fastest results I got with the gold plated probemasters.But out of genuine curiosity, I'll ask:Why does it have to be "super fast" ?It is just a simple test procedure to see if there is a low impedance connection.In addition, I e.g. always test connections with the "eye", not with the buzzer.Because the vast majority of meters beep below a certain resistance value and that is not zero ohm.This is for me a source of error, so I look at the display, whether it is really "zero" ohm and that eats time.Therefore, the speed is not completely indifferent to me, but secondary.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 11:36:00 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 26, 2023, 11:26:18 pmI always just listen to the beeper. If it starts to sound intermittent then it is either bad contact from the probe or there isn't a short. If there isn't a full short then it needs further investigation. My typical use for continiuty is to check connections between points, check fuses and find blown up MOSFETs / diodes. In some cases I sweep the probes across a row of pins quickly and listen for the DMM make some sound. A short blip is enough. BTW I use sharp, hardened steel probes from Hirschmann or a similar A-brand.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2023, 11:58:24 pm
content: Found a test:Quote0.1sec...Should be fast enough.https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMEastTester%20ET3240%20UK.html

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 03:03:36 am
content: i like throw the wrench in that smooth process of choosing bench DMMand offer to buy 3 ( YES 3 of them) for a price of one strange looking thingihttps://www.ebay.com/itm/175521881649benefits : multiply points of measure to better understand what going on ; it will defininutly looks like a pro ; devices good and have some logging feature; finally girls really like it, as it looks like a rocket scientist.

author: mastershake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 04:15:07 am
content: sorry been away had lots of doc stuff past few days and a minor surgery i had to have to remove a small tumor from the liver.anyway his budget is up to maybe 4-500 he wants this to last a long time and not have to buy one again for a good while (though imo once he catches the bug ill bet he ends up buying more like most of us) and he was offered a brand new hantek 3055 in the box for 400$ even which for that unit seems a good deal but they dont seem to have a great rep around here. sdg reviewed them and liked them.but i also thought he should spend maybe 200 or less but he is set on something a bit higher end then that to last for a while and he is looking at 5.5 digits. i told him he really doesnt need more then 4.5 but he wants at least a 5.5 (he wanted a 6.5 till he saw those prices new lol). not really sure the hantek would be the best choice but then im not sure in that kind of budget what would be. that is his max for a bench meter though im sure if he found something as good for less he may go that way. but he does want a new one not second hand (im not sure why but he def wants something new)

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 05:17:07 am
content: "hantek 3055"im no doubt it will work and shows numbers , but when i watch this video -; it seems period of measurement was 4 seconds . cheap ADC with averaging to get 1 more digit ... - for me personally 4sec of averaging - NO WAY ... ;second thing - when it drift alot in a time, and it will , due to components - no one will help , as the process of adjustment unknown. no support , no firmware updatesiglent would be more reasonable ;PS - I do remember Hantek skope that constantly freeze - throw away money.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 07:09:50 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 26, 2023, 11:58:24 pmThat is really nowhere fast enough IMHO. Most Fluke meters, like the 87V, detect1msshorts (and transient open circuits!). This really is useful when swiping across a row of contacts to find the other end of a conductor, or to identify transient short or open circuits in a cable, for example.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 07:32:38 am
content: I don't think it was mentioned yet, but the Keithley 2110 (made by Picotest) can be found frequently for around $400. It is pretty well equipped feature-wise, has USB, a lot of pro-level features and boots instantly. Yes, the smallish display attracts some derision, but that helps to keep the the prices low when you're shopping on ebay!Datasheet:https://download.tek.com/datasheet/1KW-73983-1_2110_Digital_Multimeter_Datasheet_030923.pdfManual:https://download.tek.com/manual/2110-901-01(C-Aug2013)(Ref).pdf

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 08:43:15 am
content: Quote from: tooki on March 27, 2023, 07:09:50 amI agree. 1ms is the 'required number'. Even at 1ms you still hear a 'click' so you know something is there.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 10:03:26 am
content: Quote from: mastershake on March 27, 2023, 04:15:07 amWell, for that kind of money I would be looking at the offers from tge more known brands here:Rigol DM3058Ehttps://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-multimeters/dm3000/Siglent SDM3055.https://siglentna.com/product/sdm3055/As for the current discussion between old versus new, having an older high quality model gives you a lower cost ticket platform to experiment with different and interesting things such as GPIB and the minor and occasional repair. Not to mention that the availability of excellent service manuals which thoroughly explain the theory of operation of the equipment provides an unparalleled education route when compared to a more modern (and more integrated) model.My progression was an old but incredibly accurate manual range Keithely 191 where the ADC is fully discrete, to a Racal Dana 5001 that has some microprocessing for the auto ranges, to a pair of 3478As that give me incredible accuracy when compared to the handhelds, at the expense of the convenience features of the newer models. Even still, I can easily test diodes on a 3478A, while capacitance, continuity frequency, etc. are done with more suitable equipment (including the handhelds)So, the appeal and differences mentioned about a cheaper model such as the VC8141 become dilluted in face of an Aneng AN888S, for example, which has a much better display and the same convenience features.Good luck in your decision!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 10:21:39 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 27, 2023, 08:43:15 amTop-notch continuity functions are latching and will produce a beep long enough to hear. (If I understand it correctly, Fluke even does the reverse, extending apausein the beeping to make audible a brief open circuit.)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 12:27:42 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 27, 2023, 10:21:39 amRespectfully I disagree.. Latched is a personal preference.I prefer non- latched because i canhearnature of scratching in real time. It is additional info about what is the nature of connection.... You can connect 1.5V battery to audio pot and a slider to an audio amplifier to verify if they are scratchy and noisy...A bad connection for instance can be oxide in connection or clean break with cold joint. One will have distinct on/off sound (albeit quick) other one will sound exactly like white noise modulated beeper...With latched beeper I feel like beeper is confused and it will quantize it to some time timings it likes.It will definitely let you knowsomethingis wrong, but you won't be able to hear exactlywhat..As I said,my preferencefor those reasons. I understand you like latched, for some reasons of yours.Both are useful if done right. Emphasys on "done right" is much more important than latched - non latched in my opinion..

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 03:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 27, 2023, 08:43:15 amSorry, but that's just ridiculous. No human can even consciously acknowledge an event in less than 150ms. 0.1 second is fine. Anything else is just "pissing in the wind" specification racing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 03:06:33 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 27, 2023, 03:02:21 pmOf course they can. Ask any musician...

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 03:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 27, 2023, 03:06:33 pmOkay, I'll ask myself. 50 years of trombone playing should qualify me. And the answer is no. Following an expected rhythmic pattern is not "reacting" to the unexpected.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 03:16:43 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 27, 2023, 03:12:30 pmIt is not about reaction, it is about detection! Just hook up a small speaker to a function generator and let it make a 5kHz sine burst lasting 1 ms every second. You'll hear it for sure and that is all that matters.Edit: swiping a probe along 50 pins of a QFP package takes about half a second. That is 10ms per pin of which a few ms making actual contact. I hope this makes it clear why instant continuity is important to people that need/want to trace signals in equipment for which no schematic is available.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 03:18:57 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 27, 2023, 03:12:30 pmThe word was "acknowledge", not "react".

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 04:36:58 pm
content: One vote for low cost 3478, I had one years ago paid $100 for it. It was very accurate and stable. Used it for a few years and sold it at a profit when I upgraded to 34401A. If it was backlit I would have kept it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 04:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 27, 2023, 12:27:42 pmYep. Non-latched sounds nasty but it gives more information.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 05:04:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 27, 2023, 03:16:43 pmAnd what happens if it has to last longer than half a second, except that you get a few seconds older before you're through?Don't get mad at me, but I find this millisecond-beep-musicians debate kind of funny, is it really such important..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 05:10:55 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 27, 2023, 05:04:29 pmTypically it is not just 1 row of pins you want to check but and entire board with many chips. And you want to find several signals. The time adds up quickly and the process becomes very annoying if the DMM you are using has slow continuity testing. Also keep in mind that you might skip a pin if you have to test pin-by-pin and not wait long enough for the beeper to go off. So what you need for this kind of work is a continuity test mode that is faster than you can move a probe along a pin. The latter guarantees you test all pins when 'swipe testing' which circles back to confidence in the test results.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 05:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 27, 2023, 03:18:57 pmWhen I'm talking about acknowledge I am talking about reaction. In particular the reaction time the brain takes to register the event. Once it has been registered it is acknowledged. I'm not talking about responding with some other motion (that could take nearly twice as long). Just the "realization" that something happened.Anyway, nctnico explained his use case. It was much different than I had guessed and a rapid response from the meter might indeed improve his process.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 05:30:21 pm
content: I thought latched continuity beeper only existed as a compensation for not being able to implement a fast-acting detector. It is surprising to find that some people actually prefer it latched.To me, it (latching) is extremely annoying, since it removes maybe 90% of the continuity tester functionality, as was explained in the previous posts. This is why it is an important part of DMM reviews to check how fast the beeper turns on when continuity is detected and how fast it turns off when it's gone.One less obvious use case (and also an advantage) of the non-latched beeper is that it allows you to hear when the tips of your probes (or the wires, or whatever extra contact points there may be) wear out and it's time to replace them: the sound becomes scratchy instead of the solid continous beep that you hear with fresh tips.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 07:01:43 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on March 27, 2023, 05:30:21 pmThat makes no sense. Slow detection is theresultof a poor latching circuit, not thereasonfor adding latching. Fast detection is not a challenge (non-latching continuity is cheaper and easier to implement after all!). Latchingwhile maintaining fast detectionis a bit of an art, and one that many meter makers haven’t mastered.The point of latching is to extend a brief, possibly inaudible beep into one that is long enough and loud enough to be heard reliably. (Not all meters get used in quiet lab environments; they’re also used widely in industry where there needs to be NO ambiguity about whether there is or isn’t continuity.)I just did a quick test using an MCU to pulse a relay for a few ms (2.25ms is the shortest where its normally-closed contacts open long enough for my multimeters to detect it at all). With a meter with unlatched continuity, the interruption is so brief it really doesn’t sound like a pause; it just adds a click over the continuous beep. On the Fluke 87V, it extends the interruption in the beeping to something plainly audible.For intermittent contact, I had to set the code to 5ms to get any detectable beep. On the Fluke, it’s a plain, clear beep. On the non-latching meter, a barely audible chirp so short it sounds more like a click. Fine in my quiet bedroom, but if there were any sources of noise in here, you’d be totally unable to hear it.The scratchiness of unlatched continuity is good for detecting scratchy things (where it’s making and breaking contact many times in a split second), but not good at finding sparse intermittent open circuits.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 07:07:45 pm
content: Back to OP's original questions and comments, I agree that these are good options. Between the two brands, I found my experience with firmware upgrade to be better with Siglent. Although it is pushing the high end of what the buyer has budgeted for. However, I don't have experience either of these two particular DMM, so feedback from other current owners would be useful.I also agree the comment about 4.5 vs 5.5 digits. If you don't have the use case for 5.5 digit meter, you might as well get a 4.5 digit, and spend the extra on better probes and attachments. Most electronics work does not require 5.5 digits unless you are dealing with a highly stable and precise power source. Otherwise, the last 2-3 digits will likely just be drifting all over the place.In any event, what he is getting is leagues beyond what most of us start out with. My first DMM was a Fluke 8000A, 3.5 digits, it is still in use today. And I never found the 3.5 digit to be lacking in the vast majority of my use cases.I hope you will get through your cancer treatment soon and return to full health.Quote from: rsjsouza on March 27, 2023, 10:03:26 am

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 08:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 27, 2023, 07:01:43 pmWell you tested very cheap meter for reference and compared it to superb Fluke latched implementation (yes Fluke did it right on F87V).On my BM869S, 1 ms pulse creates clear click, and also clearly audible "dropout click" on 1 ms interruption. Same with BM525S.If I go over 10 ms you start hearing it as a short tone burst. With some experience you can relatively judge intervals by ear...On MTX3293 (that has some kind of fast latching type), 1ms pulse is less audible, but dropout is nicely heard. I find it very usable but prefer Brymen type. Mind you, I used F87V for years. I can do job with it's beeper and find it well done. But latching beeper and diode beep is something I never really found really important.. To each its own...Best..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 11:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on March 27, 2023, 10:03:26 amDang it! Looks kind of interesting to try for kicks. I'm wondering whether the Chinese got wind of improving the WAF of products by integrating things like a Bluetooth speaker and a clock into a DMM. Chauvin-arnoux didn't even got such a bold idea...

author: donlisms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 12:09:24 am
content: I'm glad I have a good sense of what's important to me, and it helps me in the face of vigorous debates on beeping and such. To each his own, indeed!I have a 34401a I got within the budget that's been presented, used, from an auction site. It's pretty terrific. (The meter, not the auction site.). It has all the things.For secondary measurements, I have four 3478a's, also surprisingly not expensive, from an auction site. Three of them work great; one display failed when I left it on continuously, but for what they cost, that's okay with me. I have never (ever, ever, ever!) whined about not having backlight, and my eyes are not so great. I honestly don't understand why that's A Thing, unless it's just someone competing to build the longest list of complaints. I have occasionally wanted continuity or diode test, but I have a hand-held meter that can easily and conveniently serve those purposes if the 34401a is already engaged in some other function. So I wouldn't want the 3478a as my only meter, but two or three of them and a nice hand-held would be fine.I've also seen 3456's for nice prices. Yes, old, but could be a nice meter.At some point I realized I wanted to partake of a hobby that's all about digging into how things work, and making and/or fixing them, but I was avoiding doing that on the path to acquiring some rather cool, premium test gear from the past. A willingness to do the work opened doors, especially to learning a lot along the way -- though overall, I haven't had to mess with these things all that much. So... buy a yesterday-premium instrument worth many thousands in its day, for a few hundred, or a new plastic device worth a few hundred. I rarely use my Siglent scope, but I LOVE my 485. That's my world.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 01:25:24 am
content: Quote from: tooki on March 27, 2023, 07:01:43 pmAlso for this:

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 07:00:39 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 27, 2023, 08:06:47 pmWell, um, yeah. That was the point of the test: to compare anunlatchedcontinuity tester to the best out there.An unlatched continuity tester is the same regardless of what price of meter it’s in, so it is nonetheless representative. (The resistance threshold might vary, but the principle remains exactly the same.) But very few meters thataren’t“very cheap” have unlatched continuity. All of my other meters are latched, so I used what I had since the price doesn’t matter in this case.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 27, 2023, 08:06:47 pmOf course.Quote from: 2N3055 on March 27, 2023, 08:06:47 pmWell I already explained why it might be crucial in a loud industrial environment.To be clear, I’m not categoricallyopposedto non-latching continuity, and I recognize it has uses for things that I guess I wouldn’t consider “classic” continuity testing. I just much prefer latching for everyday use.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 07:04:02 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 28, 2023, 01:25:24 amIthinkI’ll stick to my hi-fi systems.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 08:19:46 am
content: Quote from: donlisms on March 28, 2023, 12:09:24 amA world of good tasteI seem to have a bit of a fetish for 485s and 1502s.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 01:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 28, 2023, 07:00:39 amAny beeper can be lost in a loud environment.A flashing backlight should be on the "must-have" feature list if that's where you work.(and that rules out Flukes - I don't understand how people can claim Flukes are safe for industrial environments without it)

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 02:20:15 pm
content: We are talking bench meters here, right?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 02:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 28, 2023, 02:20:15 pm

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 02:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 28, 2023, 01:08:26 pmYou don't comprehend that people might disagree with your opinion?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 03:22:39 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2023, 02:57:08 pmI don't comprehend that people would say it's unnecessary or that Fluke shouldn't add it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 05:35:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 28, 2023, 03:22:39 pmI don’t see anyone here (or anywhere else) saying that.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 06:30:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 28, 2023, 03:22:39 pmOK, when do you want the backlight to flash and how does not having it do so make the meter 'unsafe'?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 06:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2023, 06:30:35 pmSimple: The backlight should come on whenever the continuity beeper is beeping.Not having it doesn't make the meter unsafe per se but there's a lot of circumstances where the meter would be saferif it did this. As a company which builds its brand around "safety!" I don't comprehend why they wouldn't add it. Brymen, Hioki, etc., all do it.Me? I think there's plenty of room for a Fluke 87 VI with features like this, CAT IV 1000V rating, etc., ie. Catch up with the competition.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 06:49:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 28, 2023, 06:39:42 pmI'm glad you concede that point. As a feature it might be handy, but hardly the huge deal you seem to imply it is. All of the meters in question have backlights and will clearly indicate continuity. So if you can see the screen, you can see the indication. Perhaps in a few edge cases where you are twisted around and can just barely see the meter out of the corner of your eye, your pet feature would be nice to have. Deaf persons in particular might appreciate it. But I doubt Fluke is going to lose market share over it.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 06:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2023, 06:30:35 pmI have worked in many noisy environments where the feeble squeak from a Fluke (or other DMM) would not be heard unless it was strapped to my ear instead of the ear-plugs that would need to be worn there. Having a big flashy display would be handy in those cases. So maybe not a whole lot safer, but definitely useful and convenient which could translate into a bit safer in some cases.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 06:55:40 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2023, 06:49:00 pmThey won't lose their market share regardless of what they sell, provided that they still offer their warranty, support and don't deprecate the products in the following 30 years.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 07:54:57 am
content: Quote from: Arslan John on March 30, 2023, 07:16:25 amAt first, this post looked like an AI-generated to me, but then, it is so out of context that I'm unsure.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:10:44 am
content: Quote from: shapirus on March 30, 2023, 07:54:57 amAll his posts are to a single website.The "How to test lithium battery with multimeter? An Ultimate Guide" page containsQuoteSo yes, dangerous ChatGPT rubbish.Reported to moderator.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:21:48 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on March 30, 2023, 08:10:44 amLink farms containing nonsensical electronics related texts that would show up in Google searches existed long before ChatGPT.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:24:10 am
content: Quote from: alm on March 30, 2023, 08:21:48 amYeah, that's what I meant: ChatGPT would have actually followed the context.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:24:59 am
content: I'm not sure which is funner; either that:a) ChatGPT produces plausible sounding garbage, orb) the fact that it produces plausible sounding garbage is held up as a weakness that's somehow unique to the AI as compared to an ordinary (non-expert) human.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 10:06:33 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 30, 2023, 08:24:59 amI don't find either funny. I'd prefer that neither existed.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 10:07:27 am
content: Quote from: alm on March 30, 2023, 08:21:48 amAgreed. So what?

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 11:13:57 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on March 30, 2023, 10:07:27 amBoth ChatGPT and people are quite capable of producing rubbish. So let's just call it spam

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:03:34 pm
content: Another example of a thread going nowhere .. it start good and get pretty darn stupid after a while ....

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 30, 2023, 12:03:34 pmLike this?:Friends, I need help..I want to buy a new car..Please recommend a good one.Or even better will you please all endlessly bullshit about ChatGPT instead in every bloody topic....Seriously, report crap as you would a spammer (which it is technically) and ignore it...Stop feeding the trolls, all.Please?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 30, 2023, 12:03:34 pmMost likely because not a single post you made in this thread has added any value to the topic... You remind of a drunk person in a bar who interrupts discussions with random babble about the world going nowhere. IOW: If you have a problem with a thread, report it to the moderators.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:23:16 pm
content: Quote from: mastershake on March 24, 2023, 03:56:02 pmWhy does he want a bench meter. My understanding is that they are higher resolution, more accurate and very expensive. The question to ask which is a valuable lesson is why does he need such precision? He probably does not need it but thinks: "it is better"

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:29:10 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 30, 2023, 12:23:16 pmYour understanding is completely wrongAs has been explained a couple of times already a bench meter is about having a mains cord (so never replace batteries or be annoyed by auto shut-off) and not cluttering your bench. If the case is big enough, you can stack a bench DMM as well which allow for more effective use of bench space. The really cheap bench meters start well under 100 euro (new). Decent ones for around 150 euro (new).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:33:48 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 30, 2023, 12:29:10 pmYep.And this raises questions:a) Why handhelds have to beep annoyingly when they're about to power off, then again when they do it.b) Why they can't wake up easily after they've done it? Normally you have to turn the dial or something intrusive - why can't I just press one of the buttons?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 12:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 30, 2023, 12:33:48 pmThis one wakes up by pressing any button - UNI-T UT17B Pro.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 02:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 30, 2023, 12:41:27 pmYes, there's meters that can do it. My Brymen BM857 goes to sleep silently then wakes up when I press a button.Of all the meters I own though, it might be the only one.Maybe this needs a poll.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 07:59:47 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 30, 2023, 12:23:16 pmYou should buy one Simon to really see why they are valued by some.Cost is not a factor vs a HH DMMPrecision, some models certainly but that is where your concerns of cost come in.Member mastershake has taken a youngster under his wing however he himself has only limited time with us to pass on his knowledge to this protégé so is sounding out latest recommendations from the forum.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 07:16:41 pm
content: Yes I guess the form factor is better. If it's not your only meter why not.