Any place for a kid in an electronics job? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 10:40:42 pm
content: Hi,I've been into electronics for some time, and have found that you need some money to buy test gear, components etc. Thus, I have been trying to get a job in the industry. I have shot a few emails around to a few companies in the locale, but no responses. I was wondering if anyone has any advice for me, to either find a job or some way to make money, or has been in this position themselves. I want a job in electronics because I love it and want to learn on the job, otherwise I would just ask around the small shops near here. For the record, I am 14, living in St. Neots, Cambridge, UK. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,JackP

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 11:20:37 pm
content: Good for you.Be aware that you may get conflicting opinions on this forum. With your lack of experience it will be difficult, but you need to understand what people are saying (and are not saying) - and why. Probably the best way to do that is to talk about what you've read with someone you trust that has more experience of the world and of people.; electronic expeirience iswnotrequired for that!Here's my PoV, based on doing electronics and software as a hobby and professionally since the 60s.At this stage you need to concentrate on getting good qualifications in topics that are vaguely relevant to your interests. Until university that means STEM subjects, not very specific qualifications such as electronics A level.You, and employers, will value your having breadth; depth comes later.The qualifications you get must be tailored so that you have good theoretical depth, augmented by practical experience. Now theory isnecessary, but it is notsufficient. Similarly practice isnecessary, but it is notsufficient. You need both.At your stage you should be experimenting, finding to what extent your creations do and don't work, and then finding out why. You will then be able to put down on your CV that yuou have done more than the course required simply because you enjoy the subject. That will put you ahead of 90% of job applicants. You can discuss what, with 20:20 hindsight, you would do better next time. That gives the interviewer something to talk about, and allows them to discover your strengths - which other candidates won't have.So, pick something difficult that interests you, do it, make mistakes, and learn from them. Do it as a hobby for now, and don't worry about paid employment just yet. There's plenty of time for that and I strongly suspect you won't have problems getting a job (well, fewer problems than most people)If you really want to start entering the adult world in ways that will help you and your job prospects, consider getting a hobby that will develop your spo-called "soft skills" (ugh!). HR droids love talking about teamwork, drive, challenges, responsibility etc. For my daughter that was done by her learning to fly an aircraft. At 14 you are old enough to be a solo pilot, and I know three wonderful people that are. A gliding club requires all of those skills and will develop them in you. Seewww.gliding.co.ukfor the nearest club (probably Cambridge Gliding Club). It is cheap, fun, and maybe you could learn alongside your parents?Bear in mind that you may (or may not) change your mind about a career over the next few years. I didn't; my daughter and most people did.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 11:28:20 pm
content: It's been a long time, but I'm afraid I just worked my nuts off doing as many paper rounds as I could or stuffing envelopes to pay for my electronics hobby at your age. Even when I was at university, getting vocational jobs just didn't happen for me, although if you're lucky you might get sponsorship or do a sandwich course.The closest I got before doing real work was working in the stores of an electronics factory when I was at university. I knew far more than any of the other guys in the stores, none of whom would know one end of a diode from another, let alone which end of a soldering iron to hold.I wish I could give you more encouragement, but unless you get lucky or happen to know someone, getting a foot in the door for anything other than a casual non-technical job at 14 is a big ask :-(On the plus side you are in an area of the country where it's all happening in technology, so you might just get lucky if you, or your family, happen to know the right people.I do however admire your tenacity and I hope it pays off.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 11:37:03 pm
content: I started out tube swapping and selling tv's. Yes, tv's once had tubes.Anyway it can be tough. What I did was dangerous and today fixing tv's or monitors is also dangerous. I had some guidance but in reality it is very dangerous. If you do try something like this try and find an older (more experienced) person to help.Paper routes are a good idea but I don't know if that exists any more either.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 12:12:31 am
content: The domestic electronics repair trade in the UK is finishing the last stages of contraction towards a small specialist niche market, the days of a TV repair shop on every highstreet are long gone, and remaining electronics related businesses are not likely to want anyone under 16 due to difficulties complying with health & safety and employment law and extra insurance costs.Your chances of pursuing your hobby for pay for the next ten years or so are pretty slim . . . .

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:11:51 am
content: You should look into arcade game repair. There's a youtube channel called TNT Amusements that has lots of videos about some of the games they fix. Aside from just regular repairs, they do a lot of incandescent to LED conversions on pinball machines, battery swaps (replace the old leaky stacked backup batteries with coin cell holders)There's a lot of people out there that pay to keep the old games running.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:17:27 am
content: When I was young (which wasn't *that* long ago), I had a job working at a laser tag arena -- you know, where you wear vests and shoot opponents with electronic laser/infrared guns.I'm not sure of the technology these days but back then it was largely home-brew style kit developed by one specific company. Programming games and downloading data from individual packs was done by a hand held infrared transceiver and both hardware and software was highly customisable. You'd always have a faulty board or two so I learnt how to test and repair them.Needless to say the free laser tag games were also part of the appeal.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:42:14 am
content: Thanks for your help guys. What you are saying is matching what I have found, and expected tbh. In regard to 'soft skills', I am fortunate enough to be doing my PPL, although it will be a while before I can solo (16). I understand what you are saying with getting the qualifications, but you have to remember when you were young the frustration of having £0! Thanks again,Jack

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:49:48 am
content: I made pizzas until I finished junior year in college. Before four years were out, though, I was the lead programmer at the company that took me as an intern that summer. Small company, of course...

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:58:55 am
content: Quote from: JackP on March 02, 2015, 07:42:14 amWell now you've mentioned you're doing a PPL, if it's fixed wing or rotary, you could do worse than become a "hangar rat", doing odd jobs, like helping to clean aircraft etc. This does two things, firstly you'll earn a few quid, and people get to know you. if there's a aircraft tech at your aerodrome, then see if you can do those odd jobs for them. Just accept that you won't be doing avionics installs just yet. However showing an interest gets you known, and you never know where it might end up. But at least you got a foot in the door.The health and safety and insurance side may make some companies reticent, but I've had 15 year olds on work experience work with me for a couple of weeks, so it's not insurmountable. I took one of them around my old Cherokee a few weeks ago showing him the external checks etc, and he was working with the charter section of the company that runs my club doing odd jobs.Unless you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, we all did pretty menial jobs in our younger days, but it's a means to an end.There are a few of us on here with PPLs as well as a couple of CPLs and ATPLs. There's one member on here who does single engine aircraft ferrying over the oceans - he's welcome to that job!

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 08:27:43 am
content: I was about 16 - and by good fortune, every day after school - walked past a small (2 man) bespoke electronics solutions developer (small runs industrial style controllers etc)...I went in and told him exactly what you're saying - and straight off was doing 1-2 afternoons a week - stuffing boards with through-hole parts then testing them.After about 2-3 months he saw that I knew what I was doing, and needed a relay board to extend the existing controller he was using - and asked me to sketch it out - and (in those days) proto and then tape up a PCB layout. Things led to other things - and here I am...A lot of years in bleeding edge technology - and I enjoyed almost every one of them hewre and overseas with multi-nationals and o my own...Butkeep across your certifications- as I found out too late - that working on all the next-gen stuff is great, but if you stumble and have to get back in - there is no certificate or degree for all those great things that I spent 30 years doing!!I wrote documentation and courses, gave the courses/training, managed 30-pax departments and sold multi-million dollar solutions... and created a valuable product/company (which was stolen from me) but all that is worth zip when you are trying to get back in to the business after 5+ years out of your mainstream industry.Have fun, but keep your eye on the prize.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:12:50 am
content: Quote from: JackP on March 02, 2015, 07:42:14 amYou won't believe it, but sometimes having less money can actually be better.The expensive things can often be more complex and can therefore have a steeper learning curve. If you don't have the underlying theory and background then either the learning curve is dishearteningly long, or you are not able to master it. A good example of that is that for a beginner an (working!) old analogue scope is often easier to use and master than a digital scope. The digital scopes are in some ways more capable, but they also have more subtle mathematically-based pitfalls, e.g. to understand the menu options and what you do/don't see you have to understand sampling theory.The other good point about having less is that it forces you to use your ingenuity and to use whatever you do have to its full capabilities.Besides, it can be fun to endlessly "window shop" for exactly the right car/computer/oscilloscope, and then when you get it you know you've got the right one and you really enjoy it. Things that come too easily just don't have the same satisfaction!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:18:01 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 02, 2015, 07:58:55 amIf you go gliding then you will automatically be doing all of those things starting from day 1. You have to, since there aren't any employees to do it for you.Well, you won't be installing avionics, but you might be debugging them, and you will be helping "install" aircraft wings, driving buggies, controlling launches etc.QuoteMy daughter's school enabled its pupils to have a week's work experience. Mine had hers at the Inland Revenue, and they took some trouble to get her to do a variety of useful things.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:28:27 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on March 02, 2015, 09:12:50 amSo true, but don't be overwhelmed!You see others just gliding through menus and measurements - but they didn't master it the first time they set eyes on a new scope or other gear - analog or dihital!You're right about analog gear, but the new digital's hold your hand a lot - so it depends on your objectives on day one (and harsh reality) - to find/fix the problem or learn about the scope... both will come over time, but only one wil pay the bills!Day two is great - and may take a couple of years to arrive, but it all clicks together... and you know when that day arrives - you really feel like it's all laid out in front of you and makes sense at last! But you still have to remember the live wire hurts when you touch it!

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:34:12 am
content: Quote from: JackP on March 01, 2015, 10:40:42 pmBTW, there are such events, as "job fairs", check details here.http://www.thejobfairs.co.uk/job-fairsIt seems that it is going to be an event in May in Cambridge. I think that it wouldn't hurt if you visit one of them and talk to people.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:37:41 am
content: JackP - while the location has been answered above - it helps if you set your country in the 'profile' - then others often provide location relevant information in replies to your questions.Maybe even casual job offers if they're near you!Cheers

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:39:16 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on March 02, 2015, 09:28:27 amTrue. But some never master it, but to make matters worse thenthinkthey have mastered it. The Dunning-Kruger effect in actionQuoteHopefully the OP doesn't have to pay the bills yet. That give time for experimentation without the necessity for the experiment to directly demonstrate "success".QuoteUnless you only brush against the live and neutral, and your forearms instantly involuntary contract and instantly break contact. Don't ask me how I know that.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:39:56 am
content: I doubt you'll get any joy from a medium to big company as they will have all sorts of rules, insurance issues etc. with having under-16s on the premises.There might be some scope at 1 or 2-man band type operations, though these are likely to be hard to find. May be worth looking for small consultancy type places (e.g. the Microchip registered developer list).As well as looking for work, it may also be worth asking for donations of stuff like scrap boards. obsolete equipment etc. As well as maybe getting something useful, it gets you in the door to actually talk to people.At least Cambridge is probably one of the better places good place to be in the UK.I got an evening/weekend job at a repair shop at about 13, but as has been said here, few of these still exist.The nearest alternative nowadays is probably dumpster-diving stuff like LCD TVs and monitors, fixing them & selling on ebay/locally.There are a few places that specialise in recycling discarded electrical stuff & selling on ebay. If there is anyone local, it may be worth talking to them, both about getting scrap stuff, and maybe testing fixing stuff to incerase its value. There is an Ebay sellier in St Neots specialising in medical stuff (user lab-med)Also get to know any local scrap metal places & ask them to let you know about any electronic stuff that comes in.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:42:55 am
content: Also, get involved in stuff like hackerspaces, dorkbot,http://therestartproject.org/etc. I'm sure some of the Cambridge colleges must have some public talks, educational events etc that may be worth investigating.BTW colleges may also be good sources of scrapped equipment etc.It's often about who you know as much as what.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:44:11 am
content: Quote from: DmitryL on March 02, 2015, 09:34:12 amThey are worth going to even without trying/needing to find a job. They will help you get a feel for what's around, what's needed, and what people are looking for in candidates.Also consider local hackspaces. They will often have equipment that you can't afford or don't understand or don't have room for. They will always have people that can offer advice and guidance - but only you can work out whether the advice/guidance is right for you.Definitely get the qualifications at the normal time. For some unknown reasons employers "look down on" people that have got the same qualifications later in life.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 09:49:14 am
content: Oh, yes. I forgot about hackspaces.Here is one in cambridge:http://www.cambridgehackspace.com/

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 10:21:40 am
content: May also be worth talking to all the local small independent mobile phone/computer shops. That seems to be one area where repair still happens.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 11:55:51 am
content: Quote from: JackP on March 01, 2015, 10:40:42 pmCan you please specify what you mean by "into electronics", "a job", etcetera?I remember cellphone magasine fanboys calling themselves "into electronics", and TV salesmen saying they have "a job in electronics".Are you targeting PCB design? Did you discover all related freeware? What are your accomplishments? Of what components do you read/know the specs? Did you assemble some kit and did modifications so it has better or more functions? Do you have other expieriences? What did you make, develop, assemble?Many of us did such things at your age. Mostly no rocket science, but passionately searching solutions for small problems.Get in detail, post it on internet, document it with pictures and description. It's the same for all of us, 14 years or 41 years old.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 04:41:12 pm
content: Thanks again for these great replies,In regard to the comments surrounding hangar work, unfortunately I fly from Cranfield which is about half an hour away by car. I am not in a position to make my way there due to travel arrangements and my parents being very busy most of the time. TBH, another reason for getting a job is to make them proud of my independence. It is annoying, because my family has a history of avionic work (including my Dad, who works at Luton). The same problem is for Hackerspaces and University talks; I just can't commit because of the logistical problems.My dream job (at this time) would be working in a small shop as an odd job guy. The flexibility of that would mean I would learn about all aspects of electronics, improving soldering, design and repair skills. I want to keep my options open, though, as I would appreciate anything that is available to me. I wouldn't mind working at a repair shop, but even small companies tend to not reply to emails. I might end up just asking face to face to get a straight answer. Maybe someone has tips about phrasing and titling emails to companies? Previously, I have just said a bit about myself, what I can and can't do etc., but maybe that is too in depth and it seems like I am trying to BS them?At this point, I would look for a normal job thanks to some of your advice, but even they are hard to find, and I don't really want to be another teen in McDonalds. Another key part of wanting a specific(ish) job is that it could lead somewhere in the future; I understand experience and contacts are as key in this industry as many others.I have to agree with tggzz, not having a PSU has meant that the Arduino is now in frequent use as a 5v supply than a MCU! It is amazing what you can do with bottom range gear and a few household appliances. Have yet to 'mess about' with mains stuff, a bit intimidated, but all in due course!Thanks again,Jack

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 04:45:37 pm
content: approach a local tv repair shop. even if it is only to sort resistors in the bins. you will learn something.at 14 i was repairing car radio's for a local installer. i got so good at it that by age 16 i was doing all warranty repairs for the brand

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 04:57:07 pm
content: I swept floors at a TV station as a youth. Made me decide broadcast TV was too full of overpaid photogenic idiots with big egoes for me to want a career in broadcast engineering.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 05:10:15 pm
content: Thanks guys,I have decided to go out and ask around town, instead of just sending emails. Any tips before I go?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 05:14:44 pm
content: FWIW, the only commercial pieces of test equipment I had until I was about 23 were a 1k ohm per volt multimeter, an SWR meter and a wave meter. The other bit of test equipment amounted to an LED and a resistor, although sometimes I'd use a monostable with an LED to widen a short pulse to prove something was oscillating. I built a lot of stuff just with those.I finally bought an oscilloscope somewhere in my mid 20s, but to be fair you didn't get anywhere near the value you get these days, in real terms you'd be spending £1,000 or so to get a reasonable bottom of the range 20MHz dual beam oscilloscope.Power supplies I always made myself, all of them fixed, purpose made for each job, occasionally using IC regulators like the LM309K, but mostly a zener (or string of diodes) as a reference and a pair of PNP transistors in a darlington emitter follower config preceded by a transformer, bridge rectifier and an enormous smoothing cap. How things have changed!The first proper bench CC/CV supply I only bought about ten years ago, I was quite happy just making my own, in fact I usually still do, even for pretty trivial circuits, it saves me from myself as much as anything, such as too high voltage or the wrong way round.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 05:15:56 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on March 02, 2015, 05:10:15 pmI definitely admire your method, much better than sending emails, most of which probably won't get answered anyway.Don't be put off by negative results, it's a numbers game, i.e. the more you try the better chance you're going to get something.

author: dr_dan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 05:36:06 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on March 02, 2015, 09:49:14 amWrong CambridgeTry this for Cambridge UK:http://makespace.org/They have some open events where you can just pop along and see the space / talk to the members without having to stump up the membership fee.Go along, do some people-networking, see what comes of it. The makespace has affiliations with some relevant local companies (!), and I imagine you will find some employees of those companies are makespace members.Despite living (relatively) nearby in Cambridge, I've not yet been able to make time to go and visit the makespace.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 10:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on March 02, 2015, 05:10:15 pmDon't expect a job to come to you from Cambridge and surrounding area.. it is likely to be other way around

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 02:00:07 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on March 02, 2015, 05:10:15 pmSame tip as Dave already gave some years ago: Show your realisations. Show your projects. Carry a bag with some working things. Make a Portfolio picture book, show it.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 04:07:39 pm
content: That's a good idea, didn't think of that. Unfortunately, the only place I can really think of is a custom PC/parts store (http://www.stneotscomputing.co.uk/hardware.html), where I'm not sure that would be much of an advantage to them.Kind regards,Jack

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 04:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on March 03, 2015, 04:07:39 pmI suspect you are wrong there...Employers would be idiots if they expected someone of your age and (in)experience to have done things that are directly useful to them. (And that's often true for people that are much older and more experienced, for various reasons.) In the absence of that they will look for any vaguely relevant indications that you can learn (or be trained) to meet their specific requirements.Showing things that you have done means "I have learned to do something on my own without formal tuition" and "I have sufficient pep to go out and do more than is necessary" and "I make mistakes and learn from them". They will then, with good reason, believe you will be able to apply all those talents to whatever they need doing. That puts you ahead of many many candidates, I assure you.At the very least, it gives them something to talk about with you - which isn't to be underestimated!

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 02:51:47 pm
content: Cheers, you've persuaded me to take some things along next time I go and try and find a job. The first one I looked at (PC shop) just said no without any explanation or anything. It's just hard to find small companies (not much of a web presence) around here. Still looking, but I'm worried I won't find anything else.Regards

author: sca
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 03:10:15 pm
content: Does your school do a work experience program? It used to be Project Trident when I was at school - in both 5th and u6th form (15-16 and 17-18 for none UK people). If so it may be worth asking the teacher responsible what companies offer placements. They may well be more receptive to hearing from youngsters.sca

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 04:32:44 pm
content: It doesn't change even if you are older. There was a post of a retired guy trying to find work. You have to make contacts in life. Go to places that use electronics in daily work that might break. I have a weld shop I do work for. Say you will work on their equipment for free. Fix some things and they will connect you with other people. People are generally nice. They will often give you a chance because repair places are so expensive. Once you start working on real problems you will learn how little you know. Don't charge like you are a genius. It takes time and effort to make contacts.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 05:44:26 pm
content: Unfortunately we don't have anything like that, sca. Seekonk, so you would recommend not trying to find work at first, but to make contacts? I did actually ask at an appliance repair place, but he said he was a one man job and not looking for help. It seems that companies are either too small or too big, and there's only a tiny proportion who would be willing to hire.Thanks for the help

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 07:42:41 pm
content: The one thing you need to learn is that life is all about contacts.My first paying job in electronics was at 14 in 1964 repairing transistorized electronic organs. I repaired hundreds of them, there was no other repairman, my brother had to drive me on service calls. I fixed everything. I got my foot in the door rebuilding player pianos.I feel sorry for kids today. They think everything happens on the internet. You have to use your feet to meet people. People skills are not easy. You fail a lot. It is not easy to get people to accept you when so many older people have so few technical skills. The world is your oyster filled with electronics that need fixing. Economically speaking it is not cost effective to have these repaired by mainstream shops. This is your in, your only in. People will talk and then find you. This is how the world works. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs never graduated (and they couldn't program either). They found a way to meet people. It is a fact that some people just don't have the ability to get out there and make things happen.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 10:03:55 am
content: Quote from: Seekonk on March 07, 2015, 07:42:41 pmIf you want to make it happen on internet, you have to contribute to internet. Give instead of take.Looking at internet (and click&send email, create facebook photo album) is like looking TV, looking motorsports and applauding.Make your own website and videos, articles and pictures, witch equals making TV programs, making parts for motorsports. Make others appaude for you.

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 09:11:51 am
content: You are lucky where you live, Bedford is only a cycle ride away and they have Peacocks. I used to haunt them every weekend picking up all sorts of useful items. You can learn alot by seeing how others make things, think about why it was done in that particular way. Lots of practice in unsoldering surface mount chips and components as well.The thing about life is that it doesn't matter what job you start with, after 20 years or so it becomes boring. So start out with the idea that I will change career several times during my life. That means broaden your range of expertise and experiences to be as wide as possible. Why do you think the public sector are so naff? Because none of them ever had a different job. Quite why a teacher who has done the same job in the same school for 42 years is valuable I simply have no idea, they have learnt nothing in the last several decades of their life.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 10:36:56 am
content: Quote from: woodchips on March 09, 2015, 09:11:51 amNonsense. It didn't for me over >30 years because of good/lucky choices in a range of jobs. I was always doing hardcore analogue/digital electronics through to soft and hard realtime software and systems.Maybe your point would have more validity if you defined what you meant by "change career".QuoteThat is one valid alternative, i.e. jack of all trades and master of none. The other valid extreme is "world expert in one a narrow topic". Make your choice.QuoteNonsense, and that has nothing to do with the public sector - unless you want "free school" madrassah-like institutions.The maths teachers at my state school were (with one notable exception) amazingly goodat teaching. For example they taught us all differential and integral calculus (polynomials except 1/x) from first principles for O-levels (~=GCSE). Since everybody took and passed the maths O-level a year early, we must have been 14.The exception was a maths teacher who actually was a mathematician, having described a new way of generating pythagorean triads.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2015, 02:35:26 am
content: So this thread has been dead for a while, and I thought I would just update those who have so kindly contributed.As some may have noticed, my forum signature now contains my tech repair website (now second page on google with search term "St Neots tech repair"!) atwww.techrepairer.wix.com/stneotstechrepair(traffic very much welcome to boost my ratings!). I know the wix domain is unprofessional, but you must understand the difficulty in paying for a domain (not so much the cost but the method of doing so, only an adult has the means to pay the ~£19 via credit card or such, thus I am constrained to the shitty domain). I am thinking of getting some simple business cards done at the place nearby and handing them out to small local businesses (thoughts?) but I would love a professional domain before this.Anyway, this small enterprise has not distracted me from my original aim to seek employment, so if anyone does have contacts or influence in St Neots, I would jump at any opportunity (unlikely, yet I remain optimistic!). I've found a few one man/small businesses, but two replies were in the negative, saying they were just a small company without the need, and the other didn't reply. I even tried a garage, offering help on radios and the such, as well as menial, physical work, but the (rather kind) man said that he would appreciate the help, he was trying to wind down the business. In other words, no luck despite pounding the pavement on many an occasion, as well as hours spent researching. Any more hints and tips are greatly appreciated guys.One more thing, thanks to those suggesting I call or talk face to face, the rejection, while somewhat unpleasant, is much better than never receiving a reply.Kind regards to all.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2015, 01:57:18 pm
content: Quote from: JackP on April 10, 2015, 02:35:26 amIt isn't, except if you do web design or if you are a multinational.I don't care if the Bobcat/Manitou/Genie Repair shop with a 24/7 emergency phone number, and all current and hydraulic parts on stock, has a .wix site or not.I don't even care how the site design looks like. All I need is a phone number, address, opening hours.And maybe a profile picture and a small list of success-stories.But this is a fail: "From computers to TVs, I can fix them all. "No you cant. Nobody can."Feel free to come by with equipment from TV's to computers, I can show you multiple success stories with a minimum cost for the owner"Sounds better, in my opinion.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2015, 04:24:59 pm
content: Sounds like good advice, I'll run with it, and thanks for checking out the site. Maybe I'll change the central monologue to success stories?

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2015, 10:14:16 pm
content: I grew up in a small country town, that had two TV repair shops. I used to sneak into one when the 'big boss' wasn't looking and pester the technicians for advice, etc. The other shop I hung around that much I got odd jobs bagging ice, scrubbing the floors and helping install air conditioners and roof insulation. Sometimes I got to fix something! I had an 'arrangement' with the local dump scrounger, who'd put aside stuff for me. I'd learn by fixing things, and selling them cheap.I have my own repair shop now, fixing mostly agricultural electronics and stuff. I do most things, but try not to do consumer stuff like TV's. (not enough $$ in it). Something to consider is repairing mobility scooters... most repairs are easy and you get a good feel for allsorts of faults both electrical, electronic & mechanical.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2015, 09:18:59 pm
content: Who is the audience for your web site? People you have some connection to, or random searchers?If it is people you have some connection to, then what are they likely to know about you before they arrive on the site? That you are 14? Likely. That you have an interest in electronics? Perhaps. That you can fix stuff that they have that needs fixing? Perhaps.As for people who don't know you, how are they going to find your page in the first place? Once they find it, what's going to matter most to them? My guess, they'll find you by search. In order for them to find you by search, you'll have to make sure your page mentions things they are likely to be searching for, even better if you are linked from other, reputable, sites that use those same terms in or near the links to you. Once people are on your page, they'll need to quickly understand whether or not you likely offer them what they need.Whether or not people know you, it seems to me that the first thing you need to do is communicate or reinforce what you can do for them. Once you've done that, it might be useful to provide them with more information about you. Chances are that some people could be put off by it, but for others, it may help seal the deal.As others have said though, there is no substitute for getting out there, getting to know people and letting them get to know you. When you do, spend more time listening and asking questions than you do asking for things. Let people know what you are looking for, but also ask what they need. It'll help you figure out how to better talk about what you offer, but it will also allow you to help them out if you run into someone else who has what they need.As for what you ask for, one thing is to see if they have any electronics that they don't need that is just in the way. Offer to haul it off for them. Let them know that you'll try to find it a good home, fix it, use it for spare parts, or at least dispose of it properly. I think a lot of people have stuff like that and at least some of them would be happy to oblige. I'm pretty far from you, but if you managed to get my attention and make a decent impression, I'd probably have some stuff I would part with.Anything that works, or you can fix, sell it for what you can on ebay (you'll probably have to get your parents to set up the account). For the rest, try using or selling them for parts.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 06:38:08 pm
content: Once again, thanks a lot for all the great help being posted here. I have to thank Mike especially, having informed me of the local eBay seller, lab-med. After contacting him to see about any test gear, he said he would keep me in mind if he got anything useful in. I recently followed up on this with a gentle reminder, as well as an offer to take on any repairs. He replied saying he didn't really have anything for me, but he did say he might have use for some repair jobs, as he rarely has time for them. He asked a little about what I know about troubleshooting and repair, and said he might find something for me to have a 'test-run' on.I replied by saying what I have learned doing small repairs, watching YouTube videos (thanks Dave, Mike, Shariar (right spelling?) et al), and said a little about my capabilities with test equipment (obviously I can check voltages, or probe a clock signal with my CRO, but tracking shorts and analysing digital data is not really a possibility at present. Nevertheless, a lot of the stuff is fairly old so this may not be so much of a problem, and I have my eyes on a TD201 TTi to add single shot capability to my CRO). Anyway, hopefully I can work something out with him, and thanks once again.BTW, can you define "component level" for me in regard to repairs? Thanks,JackP

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 07:10:57 pm
content: Component level means to the specific resistor, capacitor, IC or transistor that is faulty, as opposed to the "board level" where you find the faulty board ( with hundreds of components on it) and just replace that.Like PC repair, where you replace a motherboard, ram, HDD or other part with new, without fixing the problem on that part.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 08:08:28 pm
content: Ok, that makes sense, thanks a lot.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 07:37:24 pm
content: I'm guessing that, even before stuff needs repair, the lab-med guy also needs help doing basic checks on equipment to prepare it for sale. You might see about helping with that too.He's surely making a cost/benefit decision on how much time to spend on each item, to figure out whether its working as expected, and how to describe it in the listing. If you can convince him that you can add value over doing what he's doing now, that he'll be able to pay you and make a higher profit, you can probably convince him to pay you enough for it to be worth your while.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 09:37:05 pm
content: I did mention that in my follow up message, saying I could run basic test for functionality. Unfortunately a fair chunk of his gear is very medical specific, and there isn't much to test for besides voltages etc. (I'm hoping if this does work out I'll learn a bit about medical equipment though). While I didn't explicitly talk about the cost/benefit part, I did say about how a working piece of gear will sell more than broken/untested; obviously he knows this, but I said it to back my case that letting me do a bit of work would ultimately help him in terms of profit, never mind time saving.What I know is that it will be a steep learning curve. I'm relatively inexperienced, having fixed a TV and the odd piece of gear, so I haven't encountered a fraction of possible faults (mainly caps, power supply so far). Working on medical gear, there are obviously similar skills and techniques (tracking shorts...), as well as possible faults (power supply...), but there are different things to look for, and besides, I don't know what halve of this is at the moment (availability of datasheets?). Maybe I will just not be able to get some of it working, or to a known state. TBH, I'm worried that I won't fix the 'trial run' piece (or take forever), and he'll think I'm wasting his time. maybe I just need some more practise to reassure myself. Anyone know about medical electronics?!Thanks for your help.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 04:40:09 am
content: A business's profits should be calculated as the differences between costs and revenues. For small businesses, those costs should include the value of the business owners time. A reasonable estimate of the business owners time is what they could be paid if they were doing something else instead. An adult can work a full time job. An adult probably has to cover their own living expenses. An adult can make more money than a kid, and probably needs to. A business dealing in physical goods has monthly costs for space for storing those goods. Bottom line, If you can do something he'd otherwise have to do himself and/or something he doesn't have time for, for wages that you'd be happy with, you are likely to be improving his profit margin.Now, looking at this from your point of view, you get compensated with some amount of money, some amount of equipment, and the chance to learn. You will learn from your failures as much, if not more, than your successes.Rather than worrying, you can manage expectations, both yours and his. Rather than letting him pin his assessment of you on one trial run piece, see if you can start with 5-10 items that he'd have to sell as "for parts, not working." Do a quick pass to size them up. Spend more time on the easiest, most promising targets. My guess is that you can probably turn one of them around pretty quickly. The next one may take longer. If you can only fix 20%, you've probably proven value. At the start, if you only charge for your successes, and you don't require a lot of attention from him, he's unlikely to think that you are wasting his time.If the trial run works out, you'll need to settle on a fair price going forward, but first things first.

author: vk3yedotcom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 05:45:35 am
content: Quote from: JackP on April 10, 2015, 04:24:59 pmDefinitely on the right track.A couple of other suggestions.* Emphasise benefits to the customer, especially compared to others. Maybe the 'no fix no fee' bubble should be in the middle. Maybe a mention that this is exclusive or 'unlike other repairers' to make it a point of difference. Another point of difference (if you offer it) is 'no minimum fee'. Or if you don't, something like a $20 minimum fee (or more) might remove uncertainty.* Definitely need reassurance / testimonials etc to demonstrate that though you're young you can do stuff. And to convey that impression define the boundaries of your service - eg list what you don't fix. This indicates modesty and builds trust. And do you guarantee your work? If so say it.* Go for the green angle. Do you offer a disposal or recycling service for things that you assess as not economical to repair? And there are some people who would prefer to have something repaired even though it's dearer than buying new because (a) it's a product they've used and liked for years or (b) repair is less wasteful/better for the environment. This can (sometimes) be an affluent part of the population.* Seniors. Many seniors are quite well off but may have come from thrifty backgrounds (maybe that's what made them rich?). They can afford or prefer repair to buying new.* Ride the retro wave. Valve radios have gone from landfill to prized antique in 40 years. What will be next? Component stereo? Or maybe 1980s ghetto blasters or cassette players. Maybe get some cheap ones, repair them and see if you can sell them. Novelty cafes based on a certain theme might want them and be willing to pay.* Are your operating hours convenient to those with jobs? Another point of difference if the competition is closed when most people have leisure.* "Hello what is your name?'. Definitely drop this. Put the personal stuff on a less prominent 'about us' section.* 'Help me out?' (bottom right). Sounds like you're begging or a charity. Why should I? Instead change it to something like 'Liked our service? Please tell others about us by sharing on Facebook'? Or 'Our prices are low as we don't spend on marketing - please help keep it that way by liking us on Facebook'. Can you give people who liked you a 5% discount on the next repair?* 99% of people have no clue about electronics repair, so it's stuff like service, convenience, value etc that you can promote that will sway their decision. McDonalds didn't get big by making the best burger.* Can you get support of a local business association that promotes local produce? Or maybe a local fair or farmers market? Can you have a 'repaired in <yourtown>' logo on your ads?* Are there outreach programs - eg electronics construction sessions you could do with your old school - to boost your profile?* Is there the possibility of value-added services - eg knowing about all the free apps (and loading them) that might appeal to people with smartphones (if that's what you repair)?The logical result of doing all the above is burning yourself out and busting your gut for next to nothing. So you may need to think about what pays and is worthwhile. Trying to please everyone may not be - there may be some jobs you reject.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 07:26:18 am
content: Quote from: vk3yedotcom on May 03, 2015, 05:45:35 amWhen assessing suppliers/salesmen and individuals, I explicitly try to find the boundaries of the possible by asking questions to which they ought to say "No". If they say "No" in a believable place for a good reason, then I will trust them when they say "Yes". Too many salesmen and bulls**tters won't say no.QuoteOr even find it more difficult to cope with something new/unfamiliar.QuoteEvery business will have customers that theyshouldn'tdeal with - partly for the business' survival, partly for the "say no" reason I mentioned above.

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 10:29:36 am
content: Changes made - thanks guys! I recently contacted a fledgling trader platform (St Neots Tradesmen - under construction). He said he would love to get me on the register, and has agreed to look over my site (he is a web designer); he told me he'd help sort out a domain for me as well! If this gets off the ground, it will provide much needed 'advertising', I guess (for free), and it will definitely improve my repair skills!

author: vk3yedotcom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 11:25:07 am
content: Oh, and if you want a break, watch these videos of Dick Smith who started off in servicing, then got into electronic sales and other business ventures.