Moving computer mouse to the opposite side of the keyboard - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 05:14:13 pm
content: I am a typical 31 years old EE who spends ten hours a day in front of a PC. However it seems that this lifestyle is taking its toll. Last couple weeks my right hand is in severe pain every time I work on the PC for more than an hour. Handling a mouse is troublesome. Over and above it's getting worse and worse. I had 5 days off, no computer, no mouse but also no getting better.I am going to see a doctor next week, that's for sure. I guess i'll hear about RSI type of stuff. Although changing the lifestyle or working environment would help, it is impossible to do so.There might be a chance to do at least a small change - moving computer mouse from the left to the right side. I guess using the opposite side of the body for long term would somehow compensate past 13 years...I was wondering if anyone has experience with moving the mouse to the other side? Should I switch buttons too? Or any other tips for improved ergonomics?Any comments appreciated.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 05:25:47 pm
content: Make sure that your desk and your chair are at the right height and that your monitor is at the right angle, this will help the RSI thing.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 05:34:46 pm
content: There are other things you can try, such as a completely different style of pointing device like a trackball or touchpad. Maybe try a touch screen?Also, consider how you work. I think it is really important to move your hands around a lot and not keep them in one position. I never sit with my hands resting on my keyboard or mouse. My hands are always by my side or in my lap, and I frequently wave them around, stretch and wiggle my fingers.Whichever mouse you use, I have found bigger is better. I like the mouse to be large enough for my hand to rest on it without touching the mouse mat. Unfortunately, last time I tried to buy a new mouse I found this was getting hard to do. They keep making mice smaller and I can't find the big ones anymore. Smaller mice make my hand feel cramped and my wrist ache.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 05:40:19 pm
content: I had the same experience about 15 years ago. Played Quake III Arena too much and too often...I was forced to move the mouse to the other side of the keyboard. Took me more than a month to get used to it.I didn't change the mouse buttons functions. Now I'm able to use two mice at the same time! (no kidding here)Sometimes, when I use the mouse on the "normal" side of the keyboard, the pain comes back in 10 to 20 minutes.Apparently, some irreversable damage has been done.Pay attention to the height of your desk and your chair!First, start adjusting the height of your chair til your legs are bended 90 degrees.Then, adjust the height of your desk till your upper arm is exactly vertical and your lower arm exactlyhorizontal (no compromises here!).Last, adjust the height of your monitor till the upper edge of the monitor is at the same level as your eyeswhile sitting straight (spine and neck vertical).https://www.abilitynet.org.uk/blog/rsi-awareness-day-top-tips-avoiding-rsi-workplaceAll the best with it, be prepared for a time of misery...

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 05:43:53 pm
content: I developed pretty severe pain in my thumb from using the mouse. In my opinion none are very ergonomic. I tried a wooden splint to keep it from bending but that didn't work. I finally made a custom thumb rest and that has solved the problem for me.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 05:58:51 pm
content: Give it a try. The weirdness of using the other hand may still be better than the pain of using the usual one. You will get better with practice.I've always been near-ambidextrous, so switch-hitting was never a problem for me, provided it's an ambidextrous mouse. If you've got one of those mice molded especially for the right hand, that makes it quite awkward to use in the left, although it can be done. You can, by the way, hook up more than one mouse to a computer and use whichever one you want.On my own computer I usually mouse with my left hand, which means I can easily take notes with my right hand at the same time. But if I sit at another computer, it's usually on the right and I use it with my right.As for buttons, it's a matter of taste. I personally don't reverse them. I've a 5-button mouse. In my right hand I hit the thumb buttons with my thumb. In my left hand I hit the thumb buttons with my little and ring fingers, with my middle finger on left and index finger on right. It works for me.However, the keyboard is another matter entirely. Often key assignations in applications and games are made with the assumption the mouse is in the right hand. Awkward key choices need to either be lived with or changed.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 06:03:50 pm
content: I use workrave on my machine. Set it to the most annoying settings possible, like 5 and 30 minute intervals. Stretch your back, move your wrists, and preferably get up for a cup of tea every 30 minutes.This is the way I stay ache free at home. At home I have proper monitor height, good chair, and proper seating height + foot rest, but I still require the help of workrave from time to time.Working with a laptop at a normal desk is practically impossible for me longer than about half a day. At this point I ignore the sore back from bad chair heights, but usually the neck and shoulders give in after 4-5 hours. If I repeat this for a few days it takes a little time to wear off. The only solution long-term is good posture. While you have aches work less.I would ask your doctor if there are any specialists, like physiotherapy or similar.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 06:45:55 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 05, 2017, 05:34:46 pmCheck for "gaming" mice. There are some relatively large and ergonomic models available (but not always - there are strange ones too). They are usually fairly accurate too so there's no real disadvantage.

author: stmdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 06:53:52 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on November 05, 2017, 06:45:55 pmWhile not technically a "gaming" mouse, I'd warmly recommend the Logitech MX Master (or the Master 2). It's a big mouse, with a support for your thumb to rest on. Plenty of buttons for shortcuts, horizontal scrollwheel, and the coup de grace is the vertical scrollwheel with a centrifugal clutch to be able to scroll very quickly through datasheets. (Think, goes click-click when scrolling slowly, but the clicks disappear when your scrolling faster, and the entire wheel is free-wheeling)Every EE that has tried mine it has gotten their own.If you have already developed RSI, you might want to google for "vertical mouse", which some people I know have had success with.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:00:06 pm
content: I had the same issue. While it may look counter-intuitive, for me, the solution was adding more resistance....I just get into the habit of stopping every 30 minutes or so and squeezing out a dozen grips on both hands, for a start. I move my arms around too.I think the human body hasn't evolved to keeping a low-level stress continuously on muscles. Doing complete cycles of full effort-relax has helped me a lot.I quickly found I need some pretty serious grippers and I can squeeze out 50 reps easily.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: stmdude on November 05, 2017, 06:53:52 pmThanks for the suggestion, looks nice. Downside is the rechargeable battery. That would probably be a show-stopper for me.(The mice I regularly use can run for 6 months to a year on a pair of Eneloops, and when I get the low battery warning I can swap out the batteries in a second, no fussing. Having to plug in to recharge every month would be annoying.)

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:07:59 pm
content: A guy I used work with had and mouse on both sides and used which ever was most convenient

author: G0MJW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:15:41 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 05, 2017, 05:14:13 pmI'm left handed, so although prefer the left I have had to learn to use the mouse on whichever side it happens to be, sometimes the cord is too short to swap it over, other times the desk setup is wrong and as we have hot desking at work, I have to make do.I don't change anything. I hate those "ergonomic" designs that are not in any way ergonomic if you are left handed, so I stick with a plain mouse. In general, its easy to use a mouse with either hand, just like it is with a fork, cricket bat or a teacup.Much more important is why do you have this problem. Its possibly RSI but it could be something else, so find out.Mike

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:15:51 pm
content: I'm right handed but from early use of a mouse (back around 1985) it just seemed natural to use my left hand to operate it - maybe due to driving a manual RHD vehicle with gear shifts with left hand (oz).I've since always used it that way and even my 2 right handed kids (now in college) started off with the mouse on the left (since that's where I had it and they just assumed that was 'normal').I find that with my cad work, having the mouse on the left frees up my right hand to use cursor keys, enter key and most of the 'important' keys. Just appears a lot more productive to me....Oh, I also use 'symmetric' mice - and leave the button mapping as if right handed.cheers,george.

author: stmdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:27:14 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 05, 2017, 07:00:39 pmIt's just a regular rechargeable AA in it. You can put Eneloops in it and swap to your hearts content.Edit: I'm talking about the MX Master. No idea what the Master 2 looks like in this regard.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:38:24 pm
content: Quote from: stmdude on November 05, 2017, 07:27:14 pmI can't find that option to purchase anymore. As you can see, the currently available model has a rechargeable LiPo battery inside it:https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Master-Wireless-Mouse-High-precision/dp/B00TZR3WRMManufacturers often do this, they "upgrade" their products to rechargeable batteries.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:40:51 pm
content: Our management installed Varidesks for each desk in the office that allows you to work in sitting or standing position at will. I never used it but while it was a novelty people used it, a few months later I noticed noone is using it for standing, everyone is sitting

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:47:09 pm
content: BTW if you are using CADs programs a lot, did you look atSpaceNavigator or SpaceMouse. It takes some of mouse functions to the left side of the keyboard just like you wanted.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 07:47:36 pm
content: What will also help is to wear a pair of jeans and put the mouse on the leg, with your hand resting there as well. it does work quite well, and the denim material will work well with the mouse, and will also relieve the stress of holding your arm in an unnatural position for long periods. I do this quite often, and while I have a worn patch on the one leg from doing this, it does help with the RSI. At home I just use a drawer that holds the mouse inside slightly, so the arm rests on the drawer edge of the Baccarat/card table I otherwise would never use, it is now the computer table, and also has a nice convenient place to store keyboard and mouse when not in use in the drawer.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 08:13:56 pm
content: One possible problem with standing is that the keyboard (mostly) and mouse (not as much) are relatively stationary (so you can't move around much, so it might be uncomfortable).Standing would probably work better with some gesture... ah, I can't even imagine the experience for doing precise things.Speaking of vertical mice, I don't know, it looks different enough that it could be either a great or an awful experience.But I'm definitely not looking at the "high end" section.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 08:30:50 pm
content: I have a few in the office with comparable RSI complaints, they all switched over to this and seem very happy about it.Of course it takes a while to get used to it (and I simply hate it when having to do stuff at their pc)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 01:25:25 pm
content: Get a corner desk. Seriously, it is a completely different sitting position than a regular desk. It supports your arm in a different way than regular desks. Also, if your hand is on the mouse all the time (operating in Altium, playing a game) rotate the keyboard some 201 degrees to the left. The left hand has a nerve pinched otherwise.Also, get a proper office chair, both at home and at work. I realize, this is a 1000 EUR advice, but your health is worth more.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 02:03:57 pm
content: I suffer from debilitating RSI in my right hand.1. You definitely can move the mouse to your left hand, if it's a symmetrical design or a left-hand one. I have a trackpad on the left. However, unless you address the other ergonomics issues, you will just eventually shift the problem to the other hand.2. Consider getting a tenkeyless or even 60% keyboard, so that if left on the right, the mouse is not so far away from the center of the keyboard.3. As others have said, be uncompromising on the ergonomics of the desk setup. Start with the chair height (feet planted firmly on the ground). Then adjust the desk so that your elbows are at right angles when typing. Do not raise the keyboard feet, and get a palm rest. Your wrists should be flat or angled down, not angled up as most keyboards inexplicably promote. Then adjust your monitor height (eyes should be level with the imaginary line 1/3 down from the top.)4. The key to helping RSI is a) strengthening, and b) reducing repetition. So do all kinds of strength training, and gotta take constant breaks, and do other tasks, and do them differently. An adjustable sit-stand desk helps with this variation.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 02:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: stmdude on November 05, 2017, 07:27:14 pmAre you sure?

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 02:39:02 pm
content: A few people here have suggested palm/wrist rests. Previous Health and Safety snoozefests have said resting your palms/wrists on such is not recommended as it compresses the tunnels containing the tendons thus causing internal rubbing, inflammation and ultimately Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.The H&S advice was that if you need a palm/wrist rest then your posture and/or keyboard height is wrong and should be fixed.As here:http://www.healthytyping.com/articles/how-wrist-wrests-can-hurt-you/Counter-argument that rests are good (by a seller of such products):http://ergocanada.com/ergo/rests/ergonomic_usage_of_wrist_rests.html

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 03:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: Avacee on November 06, 2017, 02:39:02 pmThe problem is that keyboards that actually have keyswitches that are good for your fingers are simply too thick to use without a palm rest — you end up dangling in the air and likely arching the hands up, putting stress on the carpal tunnel. You don't want a skinny rest like they show in the pictures in the first link. You want something broad to distribute the weight. The point is to prevent the wrist from being bent strongly upward. (If anything, a keyboard should actually be slopeddownaway from you.)Quote from: stmdude on November 05, 2017, 07:27:14 pmAre you sure you don't mean the Performance Mouse MX? It uses a AA NiMH.The MX Master uses LiPo.

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 07:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: Karel on November 05, 2017, 05:40:19 pmSome good tips !..Yes, 'Quaker's wrist' was a well known issue when Arena came along. Duke Nukem was probably a harbinger of doom prior to that ......One thing that many people miss out on - is VISION - get your eyes checked if you are suffering. Yes, even with the wrist / shoulders / neck etc. Many rush towards RSI type diagnosis but many many times it is actually something far more sublime causing the issue.What tends to happen if the old 'lamps' are causing issues (that you may not even be aware of) is to cause a slight leaning or shifting forwards and backwards over time to help the eyes focus, altering the focal distance so to speak. This never allows a relaxed posture even if all the standard height and distance settings for peripherals are adhered to. One doesn't blink as often when watching a monitor, this causes dryness and eye strain.So, just always consider the peepers as a cause for many issues computer 'pain' related. (unless of course you are really giving it 'rice' in Arena........As for LH mouse, I am 'cack handed' (a left hander) and always have used the mouse in the left hand but with standard button layout. I can use my right hand ok as well but not as fast or as accurate.Someone mentioned touch screen,...personally I think they are awful things and REALLY can cause a multitude of pains and problems. A totally unnatural movement. If the monitor is more or less flat it is better, but still a cause for concern and will undoubtedly lead to a multitude of issues.The wrist / finger strengthening exercises are a good idea providing issues like CTS are ruled out (Carpel Tunnel Syndrome) - often considered but seldom found. (cue smuttty jokes)......Wish you all the best with it - and definitely check the eyesight - especially if you wear glasses. If you don;t you may need to.. or reducing brightness and especially unwanted light sources from outside the area - for example - a bright window of to the side of your working area.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 07:56:38 pm
content: Thank you, everyone. I did not expect so many replies.I must admit that every time I had a training (online) about workplace safety, which also includes RSI prevention, I did not care much. This was quite immature, I guess.I am not a type of guy who can sit still at the desk for more than 30 minutes. I often walk for a cup of coffee, tea or water and and then naturally go to the toilet. That practically repeats whole day. (Yes, I also work :-)After reading some articles, I realized that my sitting position at work is not right. I am going to change the setup. However, our offices are like from 80', starting by furniture ending by natural light. I always jealous when I visit the HQ in Dallas with brand new offices, variable desks, great lights etc.Today is my first day when I tried to work with the mouse on the left side. Well, in Altium it was quite disaster but general work was relatively OK.Does anyone use a vertical mouse?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:08:47 pm
content: Another person who grew up left handed. Switching to the other hand is no where as hard as learning to write with the other hand.I would recommend not switching the mouse buttons, as most people have learnt the buttons as "left click" and "right click", that doesnt change even in the other hand. Equally if this is an ongoing problem you dont want to get stuck changing setting everytime you use a new pc.Corner desks do help, as in general you can rest your arms weight on your forearm, not the wrist while still being able to pivot. An ergonomical height desk tends to drop it low enough that your arm floats just above the desk, again putting the weight of your arm on your wrist. (Your arms are not light).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:28:50 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 05, 2017, 05:34:46 pmLook for a Logitech M100I keep my under arm on the desk and set the mouse senstive enough so I only need my fingers to move the pointer so my wrist can remains mostly stationary.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:39:25 pm
content: I switched to a touchpad a long time ago, eliminates a lot of un-necessary movement

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:46:38 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 06, 2017, 08:39:25 pmGod bless trackpoint and the old Thinkpad keyboard.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 08:48:09 pm
content: What do you guys exactly mean by a corner desk?https://www.google.de/search?q=corner+desk+pc&hl=cs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjaqJn_6KrXAhVS66QKHcOzC-gQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=965??I have this kind of table in my cubicle.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 09:00:04 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 06, 2017, 08:46:38 pmNo, not that crappy slow eraser stick thing, an actual touchpad.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2017, 10:15:17 pm
content: Quote from: hans on November 05, 2017, 06:03:50 pmIf your only computer is a laptop, you should be using a docking station if available. I have a company and personal laptop and both have docking stations on the desks they are on. I also have fully adjustable keyboard/mouse trays. They adjust for height and the keyboard tray also has adjustable tilt while the mouse tray adjusts to stay level. These can be a bit pricey for a good one but I was in the right place at the right time and I got them for free. This is similar to what I have:https://www.schoolsin.com/REG-KBARTR.html?gdffi=a5c04e26359d4e8388efbd8371fc543d&gdfms=581AFF8196AF4A9C82F38E1639E37697&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shop%20-%20By%20Manufacturer&utm_term=4577404345909317&utm_content=By%20Manufacturer

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 03:45:57 am
content: I developed problems in my right hand many years ago, as an EE, working for hours on end to meet tight deadlines (schematic entry, documentation). At that time I used my right hand for mouse movements.I was forced to switch the mouse to my left hand (but kept the button assignment the same), just to reduce the pain.After a while, when the pain receded, I noticed I was more productive this way. Right hand for enter, arrow, numerical keys, spacebar, etc.; left hand for mouse operations. A key press could follow a mouse click almost instantly, making for speedy but comfortable click-press combinations. I've kept that left-right division of labour ever since.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 12:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: cleaningOut on November 07, 2017, 02:08:37 amNo, not really. Air temperature here is the last thing I could complain about.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 12:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: thermistor-guy on November 07, 2017, 03:45:57 amWell, there is at least some light at the end of the tunnel.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 12:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 05, 2017, 05:14:13 pmI was trained as a workstation risk assessor in 1994, after a colleague developed problems and didn't take the recommended actions. Eventually he couldn't do home improvements nor the washing up; he wasn'ttooworried about thoseHowever neither could he type nor drive a car - even after going to the US for an operation.With that in mind, there is no way I am going to offer advice as to what you should do, unless I had personally observed you working. Be very aware that people are bad at observing how they themselves are behaving; an external observer is often necessary.In particular, I worry about people using laptops as their main machine: the small keyboards cause you to have poor wrist positions, and the low screen causes neck problems. Those issues can and should be avoided with external keyboards, plus either an external screen or the whole laptop off the desk supported by a stand.The course of action you appear determined to take will probably cause you to develop problems in yourotherhand; both hands will be affected.Now it is your choice as to what actions you do and don't take. But if I was you I would be doingabsolutely everythingto avoid the problems getting worse.In the UK the HSE regulations are very clear. Your managermustpersonally ensure you have the right equipment to work safely, and also personally prevent you from working in a way that might harm you or another. If you persist, he must stop you by whatever means are necessary. If he does not, then you can sue your companyand your manager personally. His saying "I told him to stop" is insufficient defence.

author: Freelander
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 01:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 07, 2017, 12:56:12 pmwould that be a 'carpal' tunnel ?.. tum te tum te tum.......

author: nes999
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 04:37:12 pm
content: I recently went through this. I have had a few back surgeries. While I don't often work at a desk when I do its 8 to 15 hours straight for a few days in a row. The company I work for uses he new office furniture at corporate than gets trickled down. We had an IT person come to our branch to install some new equipment and said he had my chair 12 years ago. He recognized the soldering iron burns. He said he was far from the first person to use it. It had no padding, on the seat portion or back portion so you actually sitting on screws.I got angry one day told my boss that they were buying me a new chair. I was prepared to quit my back was hurting so bad day in and day out. I have never heard someone complain about a 150 dollar computer chair so much in my life. it was a night and day difference.I also noticed much less eye strain when they out of the blue sent me a significantly larger computer screen. Especially since a few weeks before they replaced my 1985 computer and vinyl plotter. They powers above made IT spend weeks trying to make a 2016 vinyl plotter work with a 1985 computer.My recommendation is make the station work for you. I change the things I can to fit me and all else be damned. It is funny how moving a calculator, or a printer can stop certain pains.Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 06:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 06, 2017, 07:56:38 pmI do, the Anker one:https://www.anker.com/products/variant/Ergonomic-Optical-Mouse/98ANWVM-BAI like it. It took a couple of days to get used to it, during which I kept accidentally back-hand slapping it across the desk, but it's fine now. When I first got it the buttons were also really stiff, which made using it a little challenging since the effort required to click the button kept moving the mouse, but that passed relatively quickly.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:21:23 pm
content: Just adding my US$0.02.During university years, my father and I tested many types of gizmos to see how helpful they were to minimize our joint pains - the earlier touchpad incarnations from Cirque, Logitech's trackball, the Microsoft ergo mice, etc. As the EE course progressed, the long hours in Autocad and Protel were not forgiving to my elbow joints, therefore I ended up learning how to switch hands - despite the fact given the earlier ergonomic mice were designed for the right-handed only.Fast forward several years, I learned how the crappy keyboards started to put a toll on my wrists. By then I already had a Logitech MX-7 that has been serving me well, but I couldn't find a suitable keyboard until I got myself an IBM model M in 2013. It's been four years without a single bit of pain.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 07:44:56 pm
content: Indeed, mechanical keyboards are far gentler, since they don’t require you to bottom out. I don’t use anything but mechanical now — I even got a Bluetooth one to use on my iPad. (Typing on a touch screen is the absolute worst for my hands.)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:07:08 pm
content: We changed to to wired USB Trackman's some years back, not so much for ergonomics but for speed.There was some end to even small discomfort from a traditional optical mouse as you place a Trackman where it's most comfortable and leave it there.....on your knee if you must.Seriously though, I recently converted a retired mate to one and he loves it even after decades or using a traditional mouse. Unfortunately all that seems available new now is the wireless version at an inflated price.One like this:

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 08:44:18 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 07, 2017, 08:07:08 pmtautech, I have used the Logitech marble trackball for about two years, but at the time I think that minesweeper severed my thumb tendon for life - when I use it for a few days I end up with a sore arm. My dad still used them until his last days, and he passed the legacy to my mom.Quote from: tautech on November 07, 2017, 08:07:08 pmI used to overpay for good mice back in Brazil... However, the US is an absolute paradise for low prices: checkhere.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 07, 2017, 08:44:18 pmSure, they're not a gaming mouse.Quote from: rsjsouza on November 07, 2017, 08:44:18 pmThanks, I might get some more at that price......2 or 3 ?

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:18:59 pm
content: 1)good ergonomics for your work station.Not that it helped me much however.2)I use a Tobii eye tracker. Got it of fleebay for about $35US used.Initially sold for gaming but their website also has several assistive tech.In my case, it is setup to check my eye position and either with a key or a slight mouse movement to move the cursor where I am looking.So if I want to go completely across the screen I just look at the other corner and slightly nudge the mouse. I can keep the mouse resolution high without having to use several wrist movement to surf across a screen. It was easy to get used to also (a few days). Takes a USB 3 port. The recent version is more accurate too.Another app out there using the Tobii allows you to double blink to start a program or execute something but I did not find it that useful at the end. I guess my eyes blink too much in an unconscious way.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2017, 10:38:10 pm
content: I generally agree with advice given above. I would add though that the perfect ergonomic position can vary slightly from person to person. Start with the canonical position suggested by Karel and others. Give it a long enough trial to overcome learned preferences but at the end of that be willing to make small adjustments for your own comfort. If you listen to your body it will talk to you.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:10:43 am
content: I've been using the mouse with my left hand for a LONG time....almost 20 years. Look, all of the "good" keys are on the right side of the keyboard. Having so many keys there moves the mouse WAY out to the right and makes for an uncomfortable mouse position anyhow. The G and H keys should be centered with your body. Mouse should be on the left. For the mouse on the right, all of the other keys should be on the left...arrow/nav cluster, numeric keypad.Our keyboards are backwards or our mouse usage is backwards. I'm fairly ambidextrous so switching to lefty mouse came naturally, but I know a LOT of people that have tried it after hearing the justifications for it, and they're mostly very happy. It just takes a few days to get used to it.It's surprising that more people don't have problems with their right hands. Our keyboards and default mouse positions are practically designed to give you trouble.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 09:18:16 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 07, 2017, 08:07:08 pmWell, I borrowed M570 from a colleague and did not like the thing at all. Every time I clicked the button I moved the cursor. Also, did not feel comfortable moving my thumb all around. Nevertheless, thanks for the tip !

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 09:33:21 pm
content: Before using a trackball, it would be worth doing research to see whether prolonged use knackers your thumb.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 11:09:02 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 08, 2017, 09:33:21 pmYep. For some people they're great. For me, a thumb trackball would literally be the worst thing imaginable — my thumb is hands-down my problem digit.It's highly individual.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 11:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 08, 2017, 09:18:16 pmThey can sometimes take a little getting used to and in your case I'd give it a couple of days.I always install the unfortunately bloated Logitech software especially if you want to assign button functionality.I'm the other way, place a standard mouse in front of me and all I want to do is give it percussive therapy or flying lessons.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 12:02:18 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 08, 2017, 09:33:21 pmGood idea. I get instant cramp in my hand when I use a trackball. BTW another option is to use a pen tablet (from Wacom) instead of a mouse.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 01:12:56 am
content: There's always this:I'm pretty sure it is useless (accuracy issues most likely), just looks interesting.There's possibly a wireless version, as 2.4 GHz is mentioned.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 02:30:35 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on November 09, 2017, 12:15:34 amThis is what I find with the normal optical mouse, fatigue in the arm using it as opposed to a Trackman (not Trackball) where the ball of your hand is placed firmly on the bench, supporting the weight of your arm and fingers gently wrap around a Trackman, more to locate your hand in the correct position to use it. Then the thumb, forefinger and index finger all rest in their positions; trackball, left and right click buttons. The forefinger only shifts to use the scroll wheel.I think there are other variables that come into play with RSI and mouse usage, namely seating height and screen size/resolution where if you have to get up close to see the screen then you end up all crunched up instead of being relaxed. I type this with a 24" display 1 meter from my seated position in front of a 800mm high bench.

author: f5r5e5d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 04:08:33 am
content: Logitech Marble Mouse here, symmetric, easy to swap - and I dohttps://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/trackman-marble

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 05:24:12 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on November 05, 2017, 05:14:13 pmI move the mouse all the time, every few weeks. I have a cheap symmetric mouse:I don't change the buttons. It is not problem for me, I can use it with both hands with not difference.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 07:24:48 pm
content: Just a short update after couple days - a mouse on the left is easier than I thought. However, ctrl+c and ctrl+v are quite complicated...

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 09:04:58 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on November 07, 2017, 06:13:29 pmI got 2 of them. 1 each for myself and SWMBO. Mine is on my personal computer and hers is on her work computer. She finds it a bit big but still comfortable. I like it enough that I will be getting another for my company computer.