Opinion on 32F401, UFQFPN48 package - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 09:02:48 pm
content: Somewhat bizzarely I am looking at replacing an Atmel 90S1200 (yes, last time buy ~ 10 year ago, been using up old stock) with a 32F401. Atmel offer the 8313 but on their past record they will drop it by the time I get around to doing the PCBI have spent last few years of my life on a 32F417 product and the 32F401 DS specifically says the 32F401 is "totally compatible" with the 32F417. I could just strip out MbedTLS and save 200kand strip out other junk and that would be it. Re-use the entire development set-up.I would run it from a 4MHz ceramic resonator. It just reads a dipswitch and implements a timer, plus it interrupts from an incoming GPIO edge. Really trivial.Does anyone know any bad stuff about this chip? Data sheet is new - Feb 2021.Anything from ST is likely to run for longer than anything from Atmel...

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 09:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on November 13, 2023, 09:02:48 pmThere's no Atmel any more. It's Microchip now. They still sell stuff which is even 20 years old.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 09:33:45 pm
content: I'd use something much lower power, lower cost and simpler as a replacement (like some cheap Cortex-M0 stuff), but obviously if you're familiar with the STM32F4 series, using a 32F401 will reduce development costs significantly, so I guess you already made up your mind. There's nothing particularly wrong with this MCU. If the STM32F4 series fits your bill, go for it.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 04:58:55 am
content: I did lots of stuff with the 411 "Black Pill", with 128/512KB ram/flash and 100MHz it's a great chip.The 401 is basically a stripped version, slighly slower and 96/512KB.Consider using tqfp instead, unless the qfn is considerably cheaper or your design is space constrained, soldering is always a bit tricky with QFNs.

author: wek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 07:37:14 am
content: Just FYI, ATTiny2313/ATTiny2313A is a mostly compatible successor to AT90S1200, and is actively manufactured. There's a migration appnote,AVR093.IMO a great way to start with a new STM32 is to get a cheap Nucleo board and exercise the features you'd expect from it.JW

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 10:26:59 am
content: Thankswekyes I saw the 8313 still exists. My worry is how long. This is averyold family now. Maybe I should just go for it.I would not need to get a dev board for the 401; I could just use my existing target and wire up a few of the existing unused GPIO pins (I have about 8 spare).Agreed about the package; a TQFP can be hand soldered, although the QFN also works OK with the ex-JLCPCB stencils which is how I normally do prototyping. BGA I totally avoid.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 12:04:09 pm
content: I like soldering QFNs more than QFPs, less bridging. I now use hot air, but before that I used this method:https://youtu.be/d-f-SBC0GrUI also used the F411 before. Its a great little chip. Its only a slightly trimmed down version of a F407. I used it in an USB DAC, still works great to this date.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 02:20:17 pm
content: One can use hot air from above even if it has a thermal pad. Just don't set the hot air gun to +500C

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 05:52:32 pm
content: Stencils became cheap. So, I now use stencils and ovens for everything. Much faster than a heat gun.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 09:02:58 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on November 14, 2023, 05:52:32 pmYes. Even if you don't own a oven, hot plates are usually much easier to use than hot air. You will never have a very focused heating area though (although there are these mini hot plates), but that rarely matters for prototyping.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 09:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on November 14, 2023, 04:58:55 amebay et.al. listings for "Black Pills" often have both 411 and 401 versions

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 10:14:57 am
content: What I find attractive about a chip which is a subset of the 32F417 is that the same CubeIDEdevkit can be used straight off. I just need to put the 10-pin SWD connector on the PCB and can load code straight in. In fact I probably don't even need to change the CPU type in Cube (which is exactly how I handle a 32F437; the code auto detects the CPU ID at runtime and adjusts a few RAM locations to use the extra 64k).Otherwise, what most people do is they buy a dev board and use the CubeMXcode generator feature to knock up some startup code and maybe some C code for the functionality, which obviously won't work properly so you need to hack it around, while posting a million questions on the ST forum like "my LED won't flash - please help me", and in the end you waste a chunk of your life doing that - as I know only too well from the 32F417 project!

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 03:27:46 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on November 15, 2023, 10:14:57 amTo be fair, people using Cube post quite a bit of questions as well

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 04:33:37 pm
content: Cube needs its own learning curves, know some common stupid bugs, then it's pretty straighforward.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 04:51:47 pm
content: That's true guys but nothing is as tricky as MX and the half-baked code it generates.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 06:36:11 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on November 14, 2023, 04:58:55 amThe F411 is a great choice and is its black pills are reasonably priced. For example from Weact Studio which open source their designs and provide product longevity (I am just a customer, no other interests).https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801269871873.htmlhttps://github.com/WeActStudio/WeActStudio.MiniSTM32F4x1

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 01:23:46 pm
content: Last time I've looked, the 48 pin packages are pin-to-pin compatible between all STM32F series. You can even go with Cortex-M0+ STM32F0 if your STM32F4 is not available...

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2023, 06:32:28 pm
content: Names of IC packages are getting just as ridiculous as the names for monitor resolutions.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2023, 09:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on November 22, 2023, 06:32:28 pmI'm sure you can come up with something better. Please share.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2023, 09:48:29 pm
content: I don't see how it is different from a normal QFN48 package. ST has blog post where they describe it as some sort of a miracle. It is literally just a standard QFN. I guess compared to LQFP48, it is small. But writing a whole post about a new package, really?At 0.55 mm, it does look thinner than others. So, it is something, I guess. I doubt 0.3 mm compared to a regular package would be an issue for a lot of designs. May save some money on epoxy though.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2023, 10:14:50 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 22, 2023, 09:48:29 pma couple of decades ago when I was doing Bluetooth, a big hurdle to get designed into a cellphone was whether the package was 1mm or 1.5mm tall

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2023, 11:34:37 pm
content: I understand that there are use cases where size matters, but in that case you are not likely to use QFN in a first place.It is fine, there is no reason to want thicker package, it is just strange to be so excited about it.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 07:34:13 am
content: It seems unusual which is why I asked for opinions, mainly re long term availability. A lot of packages get phased out over time.