How to make Arrow to realize my order - any ideas ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2021, 06:48:58 pm
content: So it was time to me to order nice cheap dev boards from Arrow USA. I placed order, send them money (wire transfer - guess it was bad idea but I don't use PayPal) got invoice, got message from DHL that label was generated and... Nothing has changed since week. MyDHL site states:"Shipper has generated a shipment label, but the shipment has not yet been handed over to DHL"It was from 16-09-2021 now it is 23-09-2021. I send them email with question what is about, but of course got no response from them.My guess is that they dont have my stuff - DECA FPGA boards. Units were sold out few days later after my purchase. I thought system prevents generating package without goods available in warehouse. Looks like they don't have proper warehouse-selling system.What boders me is that I didnt get ANY answer nor info that they cant/dont want to realize my order. Now I am stuck somewhere between Arrow warehouse and sales representative (possible ERP IT system, not human). I dont know what to do! Any ideas how to make Arrow to react? If they dont have my boards they should send email with such notification - it is almost a week! Perhaps my case is somethig that has never happened before. Boards were sold, package generated, warehouse is empty - so everyone at Arrow are done and don't do anything, because they made their activities allready.What You Guys and Gals think and advise me?

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2021, 07:20:52 pm
content: First, look up Arrow Electronics and get some phone numbers. You don't show a flag, and I assume you are not in the US. Maybe it has an international number. Phone calls are a lot harder to ignore than emails and such.Second, it has a profile on all of the social media, including YT. Maybe go public on Facebook or Twitter.Third, are the same items available from DigiKey or others? Companies will often respond to a cancellation and refund request.As for DHL tracking, I have had nothing but bad experiences with it and shipments from Malaysia and Germany. Tracking showed stuff just sat for a week or more. Malaysia to Ohio wasn't tracked until it reached Frankfurt, Germany. Then it sat there for 2 weeks. Of course in the past 3 years, I have only had 2 DHL shipments (both were pre Covid).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2021, 08:35:10 pm
content: What date was the DHL label generated?Yeah its possible due to your slower method of payment someone bought the boards ahead of you, causing a stock issue, but as jpanhalt said, either call them or use their online chat system if they have one.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 05:58:37 pm
content: QuoteBingo! Arrow has it - it is visible on right bottom corner of the screen - small box "Spark Virtual Assistant". If anable to automatic answer, this thing offers You to conect to real human being who should be able to help. I didnt noticed this in "Contact" section, none will look at right bottom corner...It seems that Arrow and DHL has one strange issue conected with its DDP delivery method. In my Arrow account package has status "fully delivered" which is not true. On the other hand, MyDHL says it is still in warehouse in Reno, Nevada. Explanation is simple - DHL do not show proper package status until it reaches Europ in my case. There will be proceed and delivered with proper notifications. It is strange that DHL doesnt show the package was picked up by them already.At the bottom is explanation from help-desk employee:"This order is shipping with DHL DDP. When an order ships with DHL DDP the initial tracking number will not show any update until it is received in Venlo where our team will process the customs clearance. Once it is received in Europe and scanned for customs, all the previous data will appear under this tracking number from the day it was shipped. As we ship multiple orders in one big pallet which are under DDP incoterm, DHL does not update the tracking number until the "mother shipment" has received. Once received, and customs is cleared then they start shipping out the "baby shipments" and then you can see the tracking updated."By the way - I got info about preparing the package 16 September. Now it is 24 and no info. I thought DHL is fast ;-)

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 06:21:34 pm
content: Thanks for the update.Your experience is consistent with mine. Those waits can be annoying, but are unavoidable unless you are willing to pay outrageous shipping costs.Just FYI: Several years ago, I had a valuable (to me) package of rare machine collets sent from England to me in the US. The British postal system (Parcel Force?) was great, but the package got lost at NYC customs (most likely pilfered). What I didn't know is that common carriers (e.g., DHL, FedEx, UPS,??) clear American customs by the pallet or container. USPS looks at ordinary posts one item at a time. In other words, to the US at least, ship by some common carrier. Surprisingly, I have had no problems with single packages coming from China or Hong Kong.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 06:01:08 pm
content: I am not complainning - I ordered stuff for only 70 bucks, and got FREE DELIVERY. In normal case delivery would be higher that my order I guess.The only thing annoying is that they don't inform customer that the package was picked from warehouse and on its way. Estimated shipping time was also something about week, which is not true. Arrow should infrom customers more clearly. And contacting them - emailing websales and even person wich was proceding my wire tranasfer payment - was a waste of time. Online chat should be visible between phones/emails section. And It is hidden - it sits in right, bottom screen corner. Almost unvisible!We will see if I get the boards. I heard that many people around Europe have troubles with their shipment. People say it is caused because of lack of workers (drivers, warehousemen, delivry men etc.). I will be posting here news regarding delivery.Now package is still visible under MyDHL as:"Shipper has generated a shipment label, but the shipment has not yet been handed over to DHL ..."

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 06:19:09 pm
content: It was a time when Arrow didn't require a personal VAT ID, then after a while they started to ask for a VAT ID at checkout (for EU). Did you order from EU as a company or as a person?I want to know if Arrow still asks for a personal VAT ID.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 06:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on September 24, 2021, 05:58:37 pmWhen I ordered last year from Arrow there was nothing like that. Ordered on Oct. 27, delivered on Oct 30, was dispatched from Velno by Fedex.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 07:52:55 pm
content: QuoteUnfortunately YES. I had to ad VAT-ID from my work. Otherwise I would not be able to make an order. Quite strange because I was able to choose "personal use" as a shopping purpose.QuoteYeah - something has changed. I got info that package is ready to pick up 16 September. Now is 26 September and package at MyDHL is still visible as not picked up. Probably change is caused by different company - Your order was processed by FedEx, mine is by DHL. DHL has long and nasty reputation. We will see how it will be.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2021, 05:45:00 pm
content: From today morning MyDHL page listed all steps regarding delivery - without right dates though. Furthermore, today morning I got info that my order will be delivered to me. I changed destination to delivery point - I can't pick up package being at work. DHL changed delivery time for tomorow - common practise in my country if You change delivery place, I got used to it.Looks certain to me that if You order from Arrow You won't get any notifications according delivery UP TO THE DAY OF DELIVERY. All informations on MyDHL website are present from today morning. When I checked them yesterday notifications were not present.What is interesting looks like I wont be paying any VAT tax, duty etc. I should, because EU changed law according international shipments and all goods from abroad must have VAT - tax payed by customer. Since I added my work VAT-id, I expect long, nasty, perhaps very expressive talk with company accountant. She doesn't like me at all (and vice-versa, she was behind kicking out our friend from financial department in time of COVID crisis, and false showing to boss whole tech department as full of loafer with sociopathic inclinations, having money for nothing etc.) so I expect everything - even being fired ;-) . Have nothing to battle with her since she is our boss favourite even though she does very little in her department - especially compared to her subordinates.My hope is that DECA boards are worth this ;-)Will post info about shipment tommorow when I get my package.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2021, 06:11:24 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on September 29, 2021, 05:45:00 pmYou misunderstand how VAT and DDP (delivery duty paid) works, and how it works for companies in EU. Also nothing changed for them in this regard. What you committed is basically a tax fraud. When VAT registered EU business buys something from other company in other EU country, they do not pay VAT. In this case, you basically purchased the goods from Netherlands division of Arrow, therefore you didn't pay the VAT. When VAT registered business buys goods in the same EU country, or imports from abroad themselves, they pay VAT but then get it reimbursed.Basically arrow sold you virtual goods from their EU division (which did not have them). Then Arrow exported/imported/cleared customs while actual goods still belonged to them (ownership transferred between their divisions), and only after that ownership was transferred to you, as if you bought them from EU.Well, it may just pass unnoticed as it's a small sum, or not. It even may appear after several years when tax agency will ask your firm about invoice issued by Arrow, because EU tax agencies share their VAT data. In any case it's more of a problem for Arrow rather than your company. Your company may simply say they don't know anything about that.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2021, 07:38:48 pm
content: I got my boards yesterday. From 16 to 29 (one day was because i change destination of delivery).I payed only for goods, delivery was free, I didnt have to pay VAT - wraper answered why:Quote from: wraperVery sad to read this, but It seems to be true.I thought that I will have to pay VAT at delivery and then give papers to financial department. I did that many times. When I heard that I will not pay anything at delivery I thought papers went online and will be processed by nasty accountant. Nothing like that has happened so I think VAT revenue will be/was processed by Arrow and tax agency in Netherlands.But one thing I cannot understand. Wraper can You explain?QuoteQuoteQuoteI was not customer - in fact It was my company since VAT-ID was required. So my company from Poland and Arrow Netherlands were making transaction - we should not pay any VAT - tax since it is transaction between companies in different EU countries. If I understand correctly, VAT - tax was payed and then reimbursed in transaction between Arrow USA and Arrow Netherlands, am I correct?Whatever answer is true I will be designing some nasty logic this weekend. Think something simpe and relaxing - counter? Is there digital-logic therapy thread " I bought dozens of thousands cell FPGA IC to do 16 bit counter", similar to TEA :-) ?

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2021, 07:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on October 01, 2021, 07:38:48 pmNot really, but there is a workshop for the DECA boardhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/arrow-deca-max-10-board-for-$37/msg3596885/#msg3596885Have fun with your new board!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2021, 08:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on October 01, 2021, 07:38:48 pmIf your company is an actual customer, give them the invoice and everything should be fine, no tax fraud happened. The proper way would be to not involve your personal bank account into payment though, and pay from the company directly.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2021, 08:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on October 01, 2021, 07:38:48 pmGenerally yes. But some companies may have an exemption and don't need to pay VAT at the border.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2021, 08:09:11 pm
content: I checked invoice and - there is no my company data. I am the only one mentioned on papers. Don't know if Arrow process personal orders as personal, or their employee used such option because of wire transfer from personal account not company. Like I said before, I had to type VAT-ID even I could mark order as for personal use...Strange I had luck, or It is common practise for Arrow?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2021, 06:14:48 am
content: Quote from: PP7BB on October 02, 2021, 08:09:11 pmBut is there a VAT number here:Quote

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2021, 05:08:58 pm
content: No. Ther is no VAT-ID on my invoice.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2021, 05:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on October 03, 2021, 05:08:58 pmThen you should have paid VAT at checkout and it should be present in the invoice. They cannot issue you a VAT free invoice without your VAT number in the invoice.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2021, 05:29:49 pm
content: Quote from: WRAPERI thought so.I checked:a) invoice I got by email BEFORE I sent money by wire transfer. There is no VAT-ID or my company name. Only my name, address, and my client number (not connected with company I work for). Furthermore, shipping, handling fees and tax was 0 - but I suspect it ws only US related informations.b) delivery note included inside package. These papers are interesting. No my company name or VAT-ID, only my name and address. I am listed as "Buyer" - not my company. Shipped from Arrow USA, SOLD TO - Arrow Netherlands.Strange, because if I am a buyer I should pay VAT and perhaps duty. It is possibble that someone at Arrow reject transaction as between companies - wire transfer was made from my personal account, furthermore I marked it as for "personal use". So I should pay VAT at delivery and perhaps some fees to DHL to process this.I had luck or bad-luck?A co-worker complained couple of years ago that he had to pay VAT, duties and a penality fee because of one transaction. He bought item in local bidding platform and didn't know that it was sent from China. They call it "drop-shipping". Can't remember how It was possible but he was responsible for processing VAT/duty etc. wich he didn't know. He doesn't work with us so I can't ask him about that. Possible that something has changed but I remember that this trick was popular among non-reliable sellers, they virtually lowered prices (no VAT, no duty, but buyer had to pay them in future) .I am afraid that I am in the same situation. I will try to gather more info from his closes co-workers.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2021, 05:44:41 pm
content: Delivery note is not an invoice. And the first "invoice" most likely is a proforma invoice (not real invoice). IME they send invoice by email once goods are dispatched, I paid with a debit card though.QuoteNot even close.

author: PP7BB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2021, 07:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: wraperBINGO - it was hidden in... spam folder in my mail. I wasn't searching for SECOND invoice!The document looks different, and similar to mentioned by You above:- contains my company VAT-ID- Payment Term: COD/CIA- Payment Method: WIRE- Taxes: Taxable Amount 0 ; Sales Tax 0 ; Total Amount 0 - but this for USA onlyAnd has line about VAT:Intracommunity supply - VAT exempt - Art. 138 VAT Directive 2006/112/ECWraper, so this is the document I have to put into company's archieve, am I right? And only this, printed out invoice is sufficient?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2021, 08:04:28 pm
content: Quote from: PP7BB on October 04, 2021, 07:19:09 pmYes, give them printed or in PDF.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2021, 09:57:48 pm
content: I've ordered once with Arrow in the past and they were tragically useless with a DDP/VAT issue, so I will not use them in future.They're probably okay for large business to business transactions but if you're only ordering a hundred US$ they just don't care enough about your business.