Seek Compact Pro temperature readout issue - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:20:06 am
content: Got a new Seek Pro for Android. Straight out of the box the temperature readouts are off. With cold start in center spot measuring mode it will show the temperature close to what i get with an IR thermometer. Within seconds/minutes of just pointing it around and returning to the same spot the readout goes down significantly. Also when looking at significantly cooler surfaces like my basement floor it shows me inconsistent values well below freezing. The temperature variation and resolution this unit can pick up makes it somehow usable but the consistency of the readout values is just bad Looks like the longer it stays connected to the phone the lower the values become and it never regains its initial calibration from cold start. Also as pictures show the noise gets worse over time. Is this Seek at its best or I got myself a dud and shoul ship it back. Also thinking could this be an underpowered USB OTG issue of my phone since I got an USB extension cord that is 25cm but it does not make the Seek come on at all. Example pictures are Seek connected directly to phone and looking from about 3ft/100cm at a kitchen cabinet with tile floor below. Im using Android Seek app 2.1.1.3.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:19:22 am
content: After about 20 mins without unplugging but not all that time in the Seek app the cabinet is below freezing and my hand is still typical body temperature. Noise level is significant now.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:28:19 am
content: So just after posting the last reply the Seek went unresponsive and i had to disconnect it and plug it back in. The app picked it up but now the cabinet is freezing -24C.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:32:58 am
content: Another quick replug and the cabinet is now at -1C but my hand still at 36C.

author: Jarrod
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 03:38:40 pm
content: Have you reported the issue to Seek support? If not that is probably a good idea.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:48:16 pm
content: Submitted my issue to Seek and looks like they are slammed:Please note that we are experiencing an unusually high volume of inquiries and it may take us a while to work through each one. This may result in response times of up to 10 business days, so please review the links below, as some may contain the answer to your questions. Please do not submit repeat inquiries for the same topic, as it will only slow things down further.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:30:10 pm
content: If you can return the unit for another, I recommend you do that. What you are seeing is very unusual behaviour that I believe to be a fault in the camera and not the host or software.Fraser

author: IwuzBornanerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 08:00:23 pm
content: The numbers you are getting are certainly disconcerting, but they are all at one pixel. Isn't there a mode where the app displays 2 markers at the min & max temperatures? If you do that, do you see the same sort of differences for the cabinet temperature? As you pan the camera around the scene, the markers will probably move to different pixels thereby enabling you to see if it is an individual pixel problem or "all over the place".Seeks need to warm up about 20 minutes to get stable temperature values, but they should not be that varied; they just start out high and settle into their "correct" values. If Seek calculates temperatures anything similar to the way I do, referenced to the shutter temperature, then temperatures close to the shutter temperature will be more accurate than those very cold or very hot because they will be less affected by errors in the gain compensation. But I don't think the amount they are off could change like you are seeing.Another thing, can you hear the shutter click every few seconds? The increasing noise suggests that it might not be operating. And they adjust things on each shutter frame. If you can hear the shutter and hold the thing steady and wait 10-20 seconds, does the temperature change significantly a few times? I have seen one of my non-pro units jump a few degrees Fahrenheit after a shutter frame (and then back on a later one), but certainly not 20 degrees; maybe your unit has a similar but much more severe issue.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 09:50:25 pm
content: I used spot mode to make it easier to describe the issue Im seeing. Regardless of the mode the temperature readout drop is there.I can hear the shutter click every few seconds when moving and then it takes a little longer when in stationary position. It makes like a 2 step springy click. The readouts increase by a fraction after each click and the clarity of the picture gets better. Then the noise starts fading in and the temperatures get less accurate. Also at some point the picture can get really blotchy and with lots of noise.Looks like the temperature readout is more stable (albeit being lower than what my IR thermometer is showing) when i keep the phone stationary. As soon as i start moving it and keep coming back to the same spot the readouts start dropping and then when i get out of the app for several seconds and come back i can see much lower values. It looks like it is able to catch up by a few degrees by cycling the shutter. By going in and out the app i can make it show below freezing temperatures on object that have a significantly lower temperature. Like going into a cold basement vs just looking at a warm tv. I can point it at the tv and get some high temperature readout then get out of the app and go to the basement, point it at the floor and turn the app on, hear the shutter refresh for the first time and get a below freezing values without seeing them climbing back up to a more realistic numbers.The picture was taken from a desk in the office where the phone has been stationary pointing at a metal stool about 7ft away and a wall another 4ft behind it. The best temperature I get when taking a fresh measurement is about 60F which is way below 68F set on the thermostat. After letting it sit for about 10 minutes and doing some minor fiddling I get about 48F. Also the noise gets to an undesirable level.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 09:53:22 pm
content: And after posting the last message the picture just froze. The app is still working but I am unable to make the Seek cycle the shutter. And after disconnecting and plugging it back its working.

author: IwuzBornanerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 01:31:46 am
content: Okay, it's not just the one pixel, the thing is sick. I'm sitting here wanting to figure out what is wrong with it but you shouldn't have to do that. You have my sympathy for getting stuck with a "lemon". I wonder if their "unusually high volume of inquiries" is due to other similar complaints; maybe they made a bad batch.Your description of the shutter sound and image shortly after shutter action is normal, but the ongoing and extreme degradation afterwards is not.

author: Micz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 09:03:16 pm
content: Same issue on mine... What emissivity you set ? When I set glossy it shows 330 C and real temperature is about 0. When I set to matt firstly shows about -25 C and after a while it shows -15 CAnd sometimes I get some kind of fog in right corners

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 11:46:59 pm
content: In fact observed similar extreme high when changing emissivity to glossy when outside in -5C degree weather. I think all issues you described I can find similar with mine too.Really wanted to make a use out of this product but after reading around and getting a first hand experience with general quality and its issues not sure if that brand is worth my money.To people that own Seek devices how is the longevity of these products? Would you say that with limited use it can last years or its one of these gizmos that you try to turn on after a year in a drawer and its dead or develops a major flaw for no reason?

author: IwuzBornanerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2018, 03:02:27 am
content: Quote from: cascade on January 10, 2018, 11:46:59 pmI bought my first XR back in June of 2015 and the new XR and non-XR one year ago. They have spent quite a few days and nights out in the summer heat and freezing cold (as low as -10F) and as far as I can tell still work as well as when new. I have brought them in when rain is forecast to hit that side of the house, though, so they have not gotten really wet..except the non-XR got thunderstormed once. I also have had 2 of them apart & violated ESD precautions with them & they still work.You guys are making me scared to hook this Pro to a phone again lest it get "upgraded" to a broken state!Regarding that emissivity setting, though, if you tell the app you are looking at stuff with low emissivity when the scene is actually high emissivity it will cause you to get higher temperature readings because it thinks you are looking at stuff that doesn't give off much heat even if it is hot. Reflective (shiny) surfaces are like that & "glossy" makes me think that is what that setting is for. Shiny solder on a circuit board will normally show up as a cold spot even if it is boiling hot An emissivity setting that would compensate for that will make everything else look even hotter.

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2018, 06:27:31 pm
content: Just an update with the feedback from Seek support:(Response time 9 calendar days)If you are experiencing inaccuracies, it could be due to being used in extreme cold temperatures. Extreme temperatures (hot or cold) can affect the sensor and cause it to not be as accurate. Also, surface temperature measurements are affected by reflection and other factors. All Seek imagers are generally accurate within 5 degrees C above or below the reading. In some cases the Compact may have a short warm-up period (only a minute or so) during which the accuracy will improve from startup.Please keep in mind that the units have been designed to provide thermal images and notional temperatures, not to perform as finely calibrated temperature devices.Please let us know if you have any other questions.Seek supportBased on that I love the Amazon prime no hassle return option.

author: IwuzBornanerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2018, 10:26:07 pm
content: I'm glad you are able to return the unit, but do you dare try another one?As for the Seek response:" In some cases the Compact may have a short warm-up period (only a minute or so) "HA! More like in ALL cases and no less than ten minutes."All Seek imagers are generally accurate within 5 degrees C above or below the reading"Why isn't that the spec. then, instead of +/-2C, or maybe they don't state it anymore."the units have been designed to provide thermal images and notional temperatures,"I don't recall seeing that on their web site either. If it's "notional", they should explain that on their web site.

author: ThermallyFrigid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 02:26:39 am
content: I realize this is an old thread but I just received a SEEK Thermal Compact PRO and wanted to post this for anyone who comes along later.Buying from SEEK is a real game of Hit or Miss. Too often you miss. Meaning you will get a unit with issues.I bought two. The first one was horrible in situations with low temperature differential where everything was close to the same temp or where there was not much heat.The screen was basically noting but noise. Couldn't make out a THING. BUT....where the temp was above 80 or so, BEAUTIFUL images.On the other one, there is more noise in the images ALWAYS. It's just not as sharp and clear. HOWEVER, with the 2nd one, I CAN see things better where there is low temperature differential or lower temps. Instead of totally unusable in those situations, it's marginally usable.However, the 2nd one is shutting off CONSTANTLY. It's driving me nuts.My conclusion is in the world of Thermal Imaging, you get a Toy for under $1000. Anything you get for under $1000 will be kinda sorta useful and kinda fun, but seriously lacking in quality.I have a 30 day return on this 2nd one and I'm seriously about to pack it back up but will give it a few more days since I have 30.If you buy one, just be aware it really is a cool toy and you can actually do some stuff with it, but so far, they all seem to have at least one or more of a basketful of inherent potential problems.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 10:05:21 pm
content: It would make it so much easier to relate if you could back up your issues with some examples, after all its extremely easy to share from these product video or photos.and since you don't write what host / or even standard (IOS or Android) you using it on, it gets even more difficult to relate.Thermal cameras and particularly budget smartphone one's where their so extremely many varieties hence the host (phone) it not just plug and play, there are often many factors in play to use such product and get the optimal result like you fx see from others and particularly with Seek's product there is all dependent on the sensor and doesn't have a standard camera to lean on and use this gimmick as a make-up, like edge detection etc in regards to enhancing the result.What system are you using and which phone? and have you tried on other mobile devices?Have also taken the plunge on a Seek pro, and purchased it privately (socalled new) så that certainly also a risk, but that's pretty much the only option from here Denmark, as a Seek pro cost 800 to 850USD here on regional stores, after taxing and another +25%VAT on top and up there in price there is better alternatives..Went for IOS as that was the only option for purchase at 290USD + minor shipping fee from US (no tax, private low declared) and had to go out and purchased a freaking IPAD 2018 as I didn't have any Items with lightning port.Anyway just got it and here is some examples of the results I'm getting from a noob point of view and 290USD investment.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJtb7oyUVo0CVfd0RQ5rsw?Im getting this level of native focus.(video just made and don't have much to compare too, hence the first thermal/IR cam in my regi, but overall think its decent from a sub300 USD value. )]Wicked framerate (all over the place)QuoteFull mediadump-info & values in the YT text section. all native' no thirdparty encoding or enhancement..

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 06:12:55 am
content: Hi thereI am quite new to the thermal topic but regarding the temperature precision I have a question...Assuming I can get raw data from the Seek Thermal Pro and I have a body in the scene with a knowntemperature, would it be possible to relate the pixelvalue of the body's surface to any other pixel in the sceneand thus get a fairly close temperature value for any pixel?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 10:43:36 am
content: A reference emitter is not uncommon in Thermal camera deployments at Airports for the detection of Bird Flu etc. The Reference is of known temperature and Emissivity so may be used as a test target for the purposes of dynamic calibration.To use a similar technique you would need to know the Emissivity of your known temperature reference and that of your target subject. Emissivity differences between reference and target will introduce an error into the situation that must be compensated for.Thermal cameras of reasonable quality are normally specified as +-2C or 2% tolerance on measurements. You cannot rely on such a tool to provide greater accuracy than this unless you get into laboratory experiment levels of temperature references and measurements.A thermal camera is normally calibrated using 2 point system. As such, any temperature that is not at those two points of calibration is liable to some level of error. The microbolometer does not exhibit a perfect linear response over its coverage. For maximum accuracy, a thermal camera needs to be 2 point calibrated with one of the points very at the temperature of the target. An alternative to provide greater accuracy is to use multi point calibration over the whole temperature range of the camera. Such methods are expensive and not available to the user of simple thermal cameras like the Seek products.So in précis, a temperature reference will provide an absolute temperature accuracy indicator and confidence check, but it will not guarantee highly accurate temperature measurements beyond the specification of the thermal camera. Running a side by side temperature comparison using a variable temperature reference of known accuracy and Emissivity is a possibility but remember to compensate for the different emissivities involved.Fraser

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 10:51:44 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on June 01, 2018, 10:43:36 amOkay, that explains seeks +/-5°C range for that price...

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 11:44:39 am
content: Are most of these mobile attachment-cameras not way of the mark when it comes to temp accuracy.one thing is specs and another thing is real life accuracy.recall that Therm APP TH model that Opgal cherry-picked for MJlorton.that was a 2000 USD product,and it was completely off the mark both in temp accuracy and spot ratio.it was something like -14% off at a basic 50* degree example and where it showed 43*. (and some of Thermp Apps product are with relatively low degree portefolio, but something like 50 degrees should be right in the ballpark where one should expect relatively good accuracy, particularly on a close subject under ideal circumstances.The sum of it all' was that "temp-accuracy" varies a lot amongst different temperatures, the Opgal Thermp App TH was way better at high temp, then it was at basic temp like' 50degrees with an -14% off reading.-and the spot ratio was listed at 100/1 and where MJlorton tests showed more like 37/1.If you seek (sorry for the pun) high accuracy, then it's not these mobile attachments you shall look at..(at least the impression I'm left with)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 12:30:09 pm
content: Sorry for all the typos in my reply. Writing quickly on an iPad is fraught with such dangersTypos corrected.Fraser

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 03:43:56 pm
content: I just did a quick test on my room wall with my cheapo PIR-thermometer (which has ε 0.95 hardcoded). It measured 27°C. Then with the Seek and cold start it initially showed 25°C on the same spot (ε set to 0.97). But then it starts to drop to 20°C after ~7 Minutes and stays relatively constant. If I continue to measure other surfaces and add 7°C to the displayed value I get quite close to the PIR-thermometer values. It would be nice if I could add some kind of software offset to the values displayed in the seek apk... Is that possible somehow? Or is this hardcoded in the "libSeekware.so" files?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 05:04:12 pm
content: I will be honest with you, if I had a thermal camera, Self contained or Dongle, that displayed a 7 degree measurement error, I would return it to the seller or OEM for correction. That is a crazy error at ambient.Fraser

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 05:19:56 pm
content: Well, my guess is that all CompactPro's are more or less that inaccurate. I think I will not send it back so that they send me a replacement that is than in their +/-5°C range from their statement above... that two degrees... And I dont see any other cam for that price range worth here in germany, I could live with simply adding the offset in my head

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2018, 05:25:04 pm
content: The accuracy figures for a thermal camera are 'worst case' rather than nominal. It is your decision of course, but 7C error in 27C ambient is, quite frankly, terrible. The Seek cameras are capable of much better performance. It sounds like a calibration error or issue with the cameras ambient temperature sensor. If you are content with it though. No worriesFraser

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 04:09:06 am
content: Fraser' do you really take this as an class-reference mark?Quote-an el cheapo PIR thermometer with hardcoded 0.95 εDon't get me wrong I adore el'cheapo PIR thermometers, got a bunch of them myself and some of them cost sub 10bucks delivered and use them for all sorts of stuff, not least in the kitchen, but they are all over the place inaccuracy, would be a shame to set a single el cheapo as a reference-class and set the world in motion with returns to seller etc. if you haven't concluded there in fact are a problem,.Anyway, the measurement I have made with Compact pro often tend to be 3 to 5 degrees lower, if I am at some distance and above 60degree, up close like +/-1 a meter, its usually a degree or two off.But that seems to be the norm with many mobile thermal-attachments, as mentioned the highly praised and superb Thermp App TH and a 2000 USD device was massive -14% (43*) off at 50 degree in MJlortons video and that was around a meter in distance.. it did afterwards perform way better readinga higher in degree like 120 and 200degree... if you seek accuracy, and something there is reliable all over the spectre and at numerous distances' then it's likely not the mobile versions there are the obvious choice.

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 05:09:20 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on June 02, 2018, 04:09:06 amThat was not my intention and I surely dont want anyone mislead to send their Seek product back just because of my posts hereAs I am confessed above I am totally new to this and I got a wrong idea by datasheet and sensitiviy 0f <70mK. That maybe induced something like a very high precission generally to all thermal imagers.. But as I read that also ThermApp tends to have +/-3°C I get an idea whats nomal in that field... But Seek really should make a statement in their datasheets on temperature accuracy.(Can someone pls short explain what the "<70mK" (0.07°C?) expresses? Is this something like the minimum noticeable difference in temp. reading? )EDIT:And as I learn the peculiarities of my device in different situations/enviroments I think I can compensate for those inaccuracyif I know after 5mins readings get stable and if I have to add 3 or 7 degree to the value to get close to the "real" temp doesnt make a big deal for me.EDIT2:I did some more "measurements" against my wall and the actual offset is -6.2°C after 5min... I noticed during the current heat period the we have here that my wall has quite the same temp like the air in my room, both where exactly 26.6°C, wall measured with my PIR, Air measured with BMP280, both PIR and Seek had same distance and were perpendicular to the wall, whereby I dont noticed a big change in temp with the angle to the wall +/- ~45°...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2018, 08:51:42 am
content: To clarify,I made no mention of trusting a cheap IR thermometer. My comments referred to a proven 7C measurement error. How that error is measured is another matter completely.With regard to the Therm App error etc .... this appears to suggest that the Therm App is just a gadget for making pretty pictures rather than a measurement device. A case of horses for courses.I am spoilt by owning high quality thermal imaging cameras that are intended for thermography and produce excellent results. I tested my FLIR Exx series against a 30C scene and it was within 0.2C of my calibrated Black Body Thermal Reference. I am fortunate to own such test references but a common accuracy test remains the boiling water and melting ice water bath tests.Fraser

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2018, 03:33:01 pm
content: I decided to send my CompactPro back (Amazon), after all... got another one for replacement. But I think I did not got a brand new device. On the box there where fingerprints.. The camera itself seems to work, temperature is off +2 to 3°C with a cold start. After 5 minutes its only +1°C off. But I noticed a strange gradient sometimes that was not so noticeable on my old device. But I cannot see it everytime. If I turn off/on the cam while hold it against an even tempered surface the gradient is completely gone, maybe that's some weird issue how the software calibrates the first series of images... and if I am not mistaken its slightly more noisy...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2018, 04:27:01 pm
content: Amazon are normally great about returns. Just contact them and state that the replacement appears used and more noisy, with a gradient issue. Send the replacement back and get another 👍🙂

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2018, 07:24:30 pm
content: Yes I will try, but currently I cannot select the option for a replacement, just for refund, maybe because my first camera is still on its route back to amazon.. they were quite fast in sending me the second camera... will wait until the 1st device arrives and check the options again...Meanwhile I took a video of the gradient...https://youtu.be/o8PwrdLJRmk

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2018, 07:52:16 pm
content: I find Amazon staff are very helpful if you speak to their customer services department. It would be worth lodging your 'complaint' with them and agreeing the way forward. They can then place a note on your file.Fraser

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 05:48:31 am
content: I just chatted with them and they'll send me a second replacement, hopefully unopened flawless device. Otherwise I declare the experiment Seek Thermal as failed...

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 03:31:28 pm
content: Just got the 3rd cam. New device, no gradient, temperature off ~-2 to -3°C and stable over time. I will keep it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 09:41:21 pm
content: Excellent newsFraser

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 06:53:53 am
content: if it's this surrounding glorie gradient halo.I also got that on mine (IOS FF) from time to time..in some shots it's very protruding and in others, it's not there.it varies a lot from one situation to the next and same with the amount of noise and I have tried to sense a red line in what does what, and also making good degree-separation by putting stuff in the freezer etc and it does help to some extent particularly on the amount of noise.But this surrounding halo-gradient noise, there almost look like you in a sauna, on some situations its there and on other there's nothing, so I'm left with the feeling its the situation or palette or a mixture of both there takes center' but topnudge that Amaon have resend an edition your happy with and thats certainly a huge gain to have this choice, in regards to fx second hand-make some great shots and share them in thermal gallery... its an noisy little fellow, but from time to time you can really get that relative high-res hence price' to shine..btw are there any thorough reviews of these Seek pro, and review there actually going to town and checking spec-performance and accuracy and NETD and spot ratio etc etc.? (the spec is one thing and often inflated but still)

author: pauledd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 10:58:25 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on June 15, 2018, 06:53:53 amI have that too, even with the new device but much less than the previous ones... I cant get rid of the thought that would have something to do with the calibration or flatfield like substraction because the "sauna" stays (burns in) to some extend over a series of images but then changes intensity/distribution if the shutter clicks once again, and sometimes totaly disappears if you hold the cam towards an even surface while the next shutter action starts, I am sure those people who wrote all the win/linux software for the seek devices can tell much more what might the cause of this. I really dont think its the sensor itself...

author: ThermallyFrigid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 04:29:38 am
content: Quote from: pauledd on June 14, 2018, 03:31:28 pmJust stumbled back to this thread.....Like I said a few posts back.....it's hit or miss.If one isn't so great....return it and try again. Just got a new ShotPRO.....

author: edubz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2021, 11:32:21 pm
content: Quote from: ThermallyFrigid on May 10, 2018, 02:26:39 amhad my seek thermal for about 1 week and now its showing the tempature outside is -23 f when its 80, and I cant see anything.I dont know, is this because its so small? Im returning it to amazondo thermal cameras break easy or its just seek products that are bad?