Getting quality solder in Europe (Norway) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 09:38:36 pm
content: So, as I am tired with chinese solder, I'm looking to buy some brand-name solder. This is seemingly not as easy as I had imagined, as many retailers have insane shipping prices for small orders. Also, I am in Norway, so if the total value of item+shipping exceeds 41USD/36euro, I get hit with import tax, and a fee on top of that.Any suggestions?

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 03:57:42 am
content: Depending on the application, we are using different types of solder wire and bars from Stannol, especially KRISTALL SN100C ones:https://www.stannol.de/products/solder-wires/?L=1https://www.stannol.de/en/products/solder-wires/?tx_produktselektor_filter%5Baa_prod%5D=Kristall%20400&tx_produktselektor_filter%5Baction%5D=show&tx_produktselektor_filter%5Bcontroller%5D=Product&cHash=8aeecfcb680141e103c53685c28af0d1

author: Thomas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 06:29:51 am
content: https://www.elfadistrelec.no/no/verktoy-og-lodding/solder/loddetin/c/cat-DNAV_PL_160404?q=*&filter_Buyable=1&filter_Category3=Loddetin&pageSize=100

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 06:47:25 am
content: If you want leaded I think most stores don't sell it anymore since it contains lead, no longer allowed to be sold to consumers in EU. I'm not sure if importing it is legal either.You can still get leaded from some places like ebay. I use Cynel brand, it's a polish brand and works very well.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 08:07:40 am
content: Quote from: JackJones on April 16, 2019, 06:47:25 amAFAIK SnPb is still allowed for personal/hobby usagee.g. tme has a vast choice of SnPb alloy based solderof course you cannot mass produce and sell any device built with that

author: anotherlin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 08:21:38 am
content: Try farnell.com. Shipping is free for orders over 30 euros, at least for France.They have a very large selection.

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 08:37:03 am
content: Thanks for the replies, but as far as I can see, Stannol does not have any online retailers? Not any with an actual webshop at least.I did not mention them specifically, but Elfa definitely is in the "insane shipping for small orders" category. 90NOK (10.6USD) for a 250g spool of solder? Not happening.As far as farnell, please read my original post. Free shipping for orders over X amount does not help me.Perhaps I should clarify that my immediate goal is to buy a small spool (250g or thereabouts) of quality solder. If I had in mind to buy in bulk I would have plenty of options, but for a single spool options seem to be limited.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 08:59:01 am
content: Quote from: not1xor1 on April 16, 2019, 08:07:40 amYou're mixing RoHS with the ban of leaded solder. Since march 1st last year it has been forbidden to sell leaded solder to consumers.Tme stopped selling leaded solder a couple of months ago. You can still find it for sale in places, like ebay.https://ila-reach.org/2018/01/new-restrictions-and-labelling-requirements-affect-lead-from-march-1-2018/Quote

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 09:36:27 am
content: Digikey is still selling leaded solder at least.

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 09:50:57 am
content: Quote from: agehall on April 16, 2019, 09:36:27 amIndeed, but they also have a minimum shipping fee of 22USD

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 10:33:00 am
content: I usually just browse around until I reach the €50 (or is it €60) items worth needed to get free shipping. Total order usually ends up just north of 1200 SEK including tolls/taxes.

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 10:52:55 am
content: That is fine and dandy, but a bit besides the point. I'm not looking to spend a lot of money, I just need a bit of solder.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 11:13:20 am
content: If you are looking for crappy solder (i.e. not spending decent money on it), keep ordering from China. If you want something good, order from one of the reputable suppliers mentioned in the thread. You will either have to pay a premium at a local store, pay for shipping or order enough to reach the value needed for free shipping.Are you 200% sure you only need solder? Do you know anyone else who might also need something from Digikey/Farnell/Elfa so that you can share one order to reach the free shipping limit. My guess is that you also need flux and possibly some other things as well...

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 12:07:22 pm
content: I have the same problem, only in the opposite direction - I love some products from norway (for example sjokade, brunost, lano liquid soap) which are unobtainium in germany. I know some people in norway but the shipping is insane! Last time I got a 3 kilo packet - value: 30€, shipping: 45€.However, I just looked at shipping prices from germany to norway. I could send you a spool of 250g solder for the price of the solder + 3.70€ shipping (but without tracking, that would cost at least 15€). Just tell me if you are interested.

author: Thomas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 12:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: Star1 on April 16, 2019, 08:37:03 amElfa has Economy Shipping for 60NOK (7.06USD).If you want cheaper than that, I think you have to go to Ebay. And then wait for a month

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 02:13:03 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on April 16, 2019, 11:13:20 amI'd be happy to pay a premium (to a certain degree) buying locally, but no such local supplier exists, not sure there is a single physical store in Norway selling quality leaded solder. As of right now, yes, I only need solder. I suppose I come off as cheap (which I am), but the price difference between cheap china solder and brand solder is extreme, compared to a lot of other products.

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 02:13:57 pm
content: Quote from: Ysjoelfir on April 16, 2019, 12:07:22 pmIndeed, shipping abroad is quite expensive! I'll let you know if I need something, thanks!

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 02:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: Thomas on April 16, 2019, 12:55:58 pmWill have to double check that. I think 60 is a lot to, but it's not as bad. I wouldn't mind waiting for ebay stuff (I use ebay a lot), but with solder you don't know what you will get. I recently bought a couple of spools from China, and the quality is horrible.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 02:22:20 pm
content: Solder is a product that stays good for very long time. Buy a pound or two and be done for the rest of your life.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 03:00:41 pm
content: Interflux is algo a good brand for solder wire and fluxes:http://www.interflux.com/en/solder-wiresThe IF14 series are good for rework, but choose based on your needs.IF14 have some spattering when feed directly to iron tip at high temperatures

author: grizewald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 09:32:15 pm
content: Don't bother trying to buy leaded solder from Elfa unless you are a business.I tried earlier this evening to put some in my basket only to have the site tell me it is only available to business customers.Like I'm going to use lead free solder to repair things like 30 year old bench multimeters.These rules are made by idiots!

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2019, 09:58:20 pm
content: Quote from: grizewald on April 16, 2019, 09:32:15 pmYeah, just had another look at Elfa, and it seems they only sell small spools to businesses, which is baffling. I could understand it if they didn't sell anything to individuals at all, but they do.

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 04:50:22 am
content: Quote from: Star1 on April 16, 2019, 08:37:03 amYou can find Stannol solder all over the place in Europe. Look for example for KRISTALL 400 class types:https://www.distrelec.nl/search?q=kristall&filter_categoryCodePathROOT%2Fcat-L2D_379532=cat-L2-3D_1684688&filter_categoryCodePathROOT=cat-L2D_379532&filter_categoryCodePathROOT/cat-L2D_379532=cat-L2-3D_1684688https://www.elfadistrelec.dk/en/solder-wire-kristall-400-186-7mm-stannol-kristall-400-810658/p/18249006https://www.matedex.be/en/products/art-12336/fil-a-souder-sn60pb40-kristall-400-1-0mm-100g.htmlWith the new EU rules and regulations in place I don't think you will be able to buy Pb versions if you are not ordering on a properly registered Company, but you can give it a try.As for lead-free, we found that KRISTALL SN100C version has better formula, wetting, etc,etc and because we use the same formula also for the wave soldering it's a perfect match.For having good hand soldering results with lead-free you need also to have a good quality solder iron with a decent thermal mass and temperature regulation.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 05:44:30 am
content: Quote from: JackJones on April 16, 2019, 08:59:01 amI checked yesterday and I could not see anycannot be sold in your countrynotice...may be it depends on the single EU countries?usually these inept lazy and idiot Italian politicians (the new ones are even worse than the previous) implement EU directives with years of delayfor a few days tme (at least tme.it) is offering free shipping so I'll see if I can order a few rolls

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 05:58:08 am
content: Huh, you're right. It was just a couple of months ago they suddenly just disappeared. I was just about to buy some too.. It does seem to give me a message that it's not available to Finland though.Same thing happened to Reichelt at the same time, all leaded solder just disappeared from their website. Now they're back.But still, it won't be available forever. I found this article from Bloomberg where they went asking retailers why they still sell leaded solder. After that they stopped doing it.https://news.bloombergenvironment.com/environment-and-energy/uk-retailers-may-be-selling-lead-solder-in-breach-of-eu-ban-1Also one of the Cynel rolls I got from ebay recently got one of those "listing has been removed by ebay" things after I received it. Let's hope there won't be a crackdown on this stuff any time soon.

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 07:21:30 am
content: Reading that I'm quite happy that I have quite a stockpile of leaded solder flying around in the lab... Even though I tend to use leadfree most of the time (Stannol Kristall... IIRC 400, but I would have to check to be sure), at least for my all-day work, not for repairing older stuff - that's where the good old leaded solder comes to work

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 08:01:46 am
content: BTW what is the difference between SnPb and SnPb+2%Cu ?On TME catalog the Cu alloys are specified for a lower fusion temperature (183°C against 190°C of 60/40 SnPb).What about reliability?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 08:32:37 am
content: The liquidus of Sn63Pb37 is also 183°C.The addition of copper was required to extend the life of unplated copper tips, when those were common 50 years ago. It also improves the strength of the joint, which is not needed in most electronics.

author: Thomas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 08:35:52 am
content: Quote from: grizewald on April 16, 2019, 09:32:15 pmSome of them can be added to the basket, I don't know why

author: grizewald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 09:51:27 am
content: Quote from: Thomas on April 17, 2019, 08:35:52 amTruly bizarre! Out of all the alloys which include lead, I was able to add 10 out of 84 to my basket.I ordered some nice Polish 60/40 solder from eBay instead.

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2019, 12:27:24 pm
content: Quote from: grizewald on April 17, 2019, 09:51:27 amI could add only 2 with a diameter of 0.5mm or less, and the least expensive one was something like 100USD, so that is a no go.I think I might have to go for that same Polish 60/40. I'd really like to try 63/37, but as it looks now even a small spool would cost more than both my soldering irons

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 07:50:38 am
content: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESPLB-Solder-Wire-Tin-0-5-0-6-0-8-1-0-1-2-1-5/32890767672.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.2.30926147XxJAnP&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10548_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536,searchweb201603_6,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=6a07679f-4f78-4dd2-896f-c8da0160c96c-0&algo_pvid=6a07679f-4f78-4dd2-896f-c8da0160c96cThis one has reviews with tested melting point and pics of solder joints.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Tin-Lead-Tin-Wire-Melt-Rosin-Core-Solder-Soldering-Wire-Roll-M25/32793699855.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.10.b8971c32CtnHJj&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10548_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536,searchweb201603_6,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=efaae68a-41b9-4e92-9849-ef3a1d437bf9-1&algo_pvid=efaae68a-41b9-4e92-9849-ef3a1d437bf9Also has a few reviews with melting point.The general tip is stick with sellers with rating >98% on aliexpress, read through a few reviews, and read the negative reviews. Also from my experience aliexpress > ebay, I have gotten a higher percentage of package not delivered or defective goods on ebay.

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 11:09:09 am
content: Keep in mind there are different solders with different compositions.I am afraid even when you buy the best Sn96Ag4, it will be nowhere near the worst Sn60Pb40 (when compared the mechanical properties, melting point etc). Add to that the decision about flux - there are dozens of different flux types, more and less agressive, no clean etc and of course there is a solid core solder without flux.The Pb free solder for rework that I can recommend is Sn96Ag4 which is quite pleasant in use but since it is 4% silver, it is not cheap and it melts at 220degC.Then - there is no significant difference in between soldering with Sn99.7Cu0.3 and soldering with a paperclip IMHO. Any Pb-free rework with this 0% Ag thing requires top notch soldering iron plus a lot of flux and patience.1kg of Sn60Pb40 is around $25 and 1kg of Sn96Ag4 is $100 (1mm).

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 11:20:27 am
content: Quote from: OwO on April 18, 2019, 07:50:38 amThanks for the suggestion. I'd prefer slightly thinner wire, but at least this suggests ali and the like CAN be an alternative.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 11:46:11 am
content: Quote from: Brutte on April 18, 2019, 11:09:09 amget a decent iron and learn how to solder.i use that formulation for years - no problems at all.it helps if it has the right flux INSIDE it, preferably KRISTALL505/511 or HS10

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2019, 01:09:46 pm
content: If you go AliExpress route I advice go for Wit solder from Japan. It's very good, no very bad smalls, no splattering and is really 183°c melting point, this is of course pb solder but they also have lead freehttps://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/yiGyVf6I use that and is great, even better than some expensive brands I used before (for rework)

author: salavat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 05:18:18 pm
content: One of the best solders I've tried is Felder solder (Felder is German company). Can you order from Germany?

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 08:16:23 pm
content: Quote from: salavat on April 19, 2019, 05:18:18 pmThat depends on the GermansAll I need is a webshop that is willing to ship to Norway to order from anywhere.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 04:26:44 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on April 18, 2019, 07:50:38 amSurely the solders on Aliexpress are essentially guaranteed to be counterfeit?? (That’s certainly the case with every other type of soldering supplies and equipment, like solder wick, flux, soldering stations...)

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 09:47:16 pm
content: You can buy the Sn60Pb40 fromtmeIt is $16 + tax for 500g 0.7mm spool, >250 in stock.Or you can get some from ourlocal eBaybut keep in mind not all those sellers ship abroad. The price is much lower but considering you just want tiny amount - use it as a price reference point.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 12:41:30 am
content: Quote from: Brutte on April 20, 2019, 09:47:16 pmNope, can’t be shipped to Norway. See what happens when you change the country...In Europe, leaded solder is no longer legal for sale to individuals.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 04:58:34 am
content: Norway isn't even part of the EU (although it has an arrangement that requires it to implement many of the same rules).

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 09:16:54 am
content: Quote from: tooki on April 21, 2019, 12:41:30 amOk, no Pb solder shipped to Norway. Interestingly when I select Poland or Germany, there are many of those Sn60Pb40 available...

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 09:46:38 am
content: it may say that, but german customs are bastards - they would probably steal it for not having a "CE" sticker on it.they have built quite a reputation for stealing stuff for simply not having a sticker, mark or declaration on them.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 02:36:35 pm
content: Shipping is expensive unless you have high volume contracts in place with the carriers.E.g. sending a package to Norway from the US will never cost less than $14.25 with the postal service, no matter how little you put in it (max 225g).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 03:27:59 pm
content: Quote from: helius on April 21, 2019, 04:58:34 amYep. Just like Switzerland. It’s not EU, but de facto most EU trade laws seem to apply anyway...

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 03:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on April 21, 2019, 02:36:35 pmePacket from China to Norway starts at $3.5 for a 50g package and includes tracking.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 04:31:23 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on April 21, 2019, 03:59:31 pmThat’s fine, but of no use, since the entire point of this thread is this:Quote from: Star1 on April 15, 2019, 09:38:36 pm

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 05:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on April 21, 2019, 03:59:31 pmWhen you pay for sending a package from America or Europe, you are also paying tons of other costs that have nothing to do with the actual transportation of a package - including pensions for former postal workers, etc. etc. This is how we like to do things - load the prices of daily goods with all kinds of costs, and we all get surprised when we see a Chinese product that isn't loaded with those costs!In the long run, China will probably end up the same way. "The price is what people are willing to pay"

author: Star1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 06:20:02 pm
content: I ended my trying my luck on ebay, and I now have 100g of Stannol, and 100g of Cynel incoming, both 0.5mm and 64/40. Hopefully it is the real deal

author: grizewald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 06:47:11 pm
content: Quote from: Star1 on April 21, 2019, 06:20:02 pmIf they do turn out to be OK, don't forget to stock up before it is all gone!