Microscope for soldering: Sony IMX comparison / FullHD 1080 vs 4k - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eevblogger88
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 01:11:57 am
content: Hello, what is the best microscope / camera sensor for soldering smd? Ideally it would be 4k 60fps, but that seems to be out of the 350$/300€ league.This is my result:€ 247,57 15％ Off | Full HD 1080P 60FPS Sony Sensor IMX290 Industrial Electronic Video Measuring Microscope Camera Auto Focus HDMI Magnifierhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_vYFSPq€ 251,35 19％ Off | Phone PCB Soldering Repair Lab Industrial 7X 45X Simul-focal Trinocular Stereo Microscope SONY IMX307 1080P VGA HDMI Camerahttps://a.aliexpress.com/_vKURn6€ 185,50 28％ Off | UHD MINI 4K 1080P Sony Sensor IMX334 Electronic Video Microscope Camera HDMI USB Type-c Magnifier For Welding Repairhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_u9uxUcSo it comes down to:Sony IMX2901080p 60fpsSeems to be a hugely popular sensorvsSony IMX3071080p 60fpsSeems to be the „successor“ of the IMX290vsSony IMX3341080p 60fps/120fps // 4K 30fpsThe only 4k sensor which makes it my favourite. Is this the best?Which one of these is the best sensor for soldering?Thank you in advance for your time.

author: twospoons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 03:23:08 am
content: Most video microscopes I've encountered have two fundamental flaws - no sense of depth, and lag.So go for the second link you posted. Don't fret over the camera - for soldering you will find looking through the eyepieces far superior to looking at a video monitor.

author: eevblogger88
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 05:53:08 pm
content: Quote from: twospoons on March 27, 2022, 03:23:08 amReally?Ive heard that it is initially harder, but brings a lot of benefits if you learn to solder without eyepieces just with a screen:https://youtu.be/NfkXitg5R4I(Why NorthbridgeFix uses HDMI Microscope instead of a stereoscopic one)This video inspired me to drop the eyepieces. But I have to think about that… Louis Rossmann uses eyepieces as well.

author: bill_c
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 07:23:25 pm
content: Same as twospoons, depth and lag can be a problem. The one advantage to digital is auto focus, but I'm not changing from my stereo microscope. Try each before you buy, maybe ask a local tech school or some place that may have one that you can examine.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 02:45:03 am
content: To have 60fps you will need manual exposure to obtain the target FPS, which means too much zoom and your image will get very dark. You can compensate with brightness or more light but when you zoom out you will be "blind", there are auto-brightness cameras too. 60fps at 4k is totally possible.However as said here before, never but never exchange your stereo microscope by a depthless camera! You will regret the moment you try it. Even at 60fps it don't look natural and what yours hands do will not be in sync with video, messing up your brain. Not to mention ghosting and other problems. This can be improvement with training but just dont!Microscopes are made to work with direct eye contract with eyepieces, camera ports are just an "good to have / give me your money"The secret to work under a microscope: Set it for yourself to be in a confortable position that causes no pain and you have a good time working with it, comfort is everything and make huge difference when using tools.Cameras are good for: Take pictures of the work, log, video record of your work, registry, and show off at youtube.

author: prollie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 03, 2022, 06:15:06 am
content: I can't provide any substantial advice on exact camera sensors. But I would like to offer my input on other mentioned aspects, as I feel we're about to slide into territory of personal preferences, but kinda packaged as if "universal" empirical fact. So perspective from the other side might be appropriate.1: Not everyone *can* get comfortable with working through eyepieces. For some it's the viewport angle, and stereo/trinocular scopes with significant tilt-adjustable viewports are quite expensive. For some it's the limited work height/focal distance range at their preferred magnification (and resulting limiting height range between head and work surface). For some, including me, it's both. There's plenty more factors here too.2: Image latency can be bad, over USB or Wifi. Horrible even. But over HDMI directly to a midrange screen, it's imperceptible for most people, single digit milliseconds is very common. Only use USB/Wifi connection to a computer for certain recording / still image situations - always use the HDMI connection for actual work under the scope. If you wanna record to computer or stream while working, get an HDMI capture card with splitter or passthrough so that your working video feed remains HDMI. Do check monitor reviews if you don't already have a/the screen though, especially gaming hardware reviewers are fairly good at doing latency tests.make sure the test is for HDMI connection. You don't need the best, just trying to avoid any surprise outlier that has a real latency issue. I don't recommend TVs for this, stick with computer monitors.3: Yes, there is a different learning curve. It will be a bit steeper, especially if you're starting to learn doing work under a microscope at the same time. The depth perception, and acute closeness of the work piece and your hands/tools, feel more intuitive when you're starting out. However, if you were to it that way, going by the anecdotes (!) from those I've discussed this with over the years; more of those who started out working "by monitor" say they find it intuitive and easy, than among those who started out with optics and changed to monitor after several years. None of those who started out with monitor, said or insinuated they had any issues falling back on the optical ports on stereo or trinocular scopes though, even among those who very rarely use the eyepieces. So if you start out learning by monitor, it's not like you need to retrain significantly to move over to optics/the eyepieces.4: If you already have the trinocular/stimulfocal microscope, then keeping the optics around to have something to fall back on is absolutely a strong recommendation. Especially if others need to use your setup from time to time, and so that you're not unable to work if something suddenly goes wonky with the camera. BUT!- If you find that you're taking well to working by monitor, you can get a separate C-mount microscope for just the camera. They're *much* more affordable than a trinocular/simulfocal microscope head and mount, and you can even get them in sizes that takes the same barlow lenses as your trinocular scope, so you don't need separate sets of barlows. These microscopes are single port (you've likely seen NorthridgeFix videos, that kind of microscope). With those, the light path is not shared with/split between any other ports like the camera port on a trinocular/simulfocal scope, so you don't need as aggressive lighting, but there are great small format ringlights and coaxial lights for C-mount microscopes for a very reasonable price. The improved light situation is also very favorable if you wanna run a 4k60 cam in 1080p120 mode - through the camera port on a simulfocal trinocular scope, 120+fps *does* quickly quite dark. These microscopes can often provide a bit better working distance, and they drastically reduce how much space around your workpiece is taken up by the microscope and stand. These are much lighter too so articulating mounting arms are more affordable. So if your workbench is against a wall and it's not a long-travel adjustable standing desk - you can easily mount the microscope arm for a C-mount camera microscope on the wall. That way it easily swings away to clear the work area completely when not using the scope, and the little shakes and vibrations of your workbench surface do not transfer and attenuate through the stand/arm fixture as it tends to do when the arm is fixed to the bench/table. The caveat is that you don't mount it to a wall that shakes and vibrates for other reasons of course. And do try to mount it so it screws into wall risers/studs unless walls are concrete ofc.Don't be dissuaded from trying out the camera and monitor route. Just beware of these core aspects mentioned. A bit steeper learning curve, HDMI straight to decent, low latency monitor, get a C-mount microscope for camera only to free up work space and improve light input to the sensor.A lot of folks are moving in this direction for good reasons. Good enough equipment for a useable setup has gotten very affordable. Optimum setup if camera and monitor is your primary "input", is a C-mount microscope, but decent 130x-180x units are ~60-70 USD from Eakins so it's not cost prohibitive to try out both if you already have a trinocular scope.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 12:20:04 pm
content: Quote from: eevblogger88 on March 27, 2022, 01:11:57 amIf you're planning to record videos, the IMX290 does work well and has decent low light performance. If this is just for you, save yourself the usability issues and no end of frustration and just use a stereoscopic microscope or a Mantis. The 3rd link you posted will just be a waste of time.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2022, 08:47:50 pm
content: One of the contention points in camera selection was manual and auto focus and controlling it in software. I believe this was previously discussed in another post or video.Primarily, the more fps and less latency first then resolution second. But not to the detriment of functionality. You want to check this video out as well.

author: cb278
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 12:12:54 am
content: This sounds like tremendously good advice. I'm new to electronics repair having been doing IT support for donkeys years now.I went ahead and bought an Amscope 3.5X-90X Trincocular Simul-Focal Stereo Zoom Microscope and found I just can't get used to looking through the eyepieces to do anything useful. My head and eyes have to be in just the perfect position to be able to see anything and the slightest movement means I can't see what I want to be looking at anymore. Not very practical for me.So now I'm thinking of buying a camera to mount on the camera port and when I started looking at suitable cameras, I realised a HDMI out camera on it's own stand with a lens seems be more like what I should have gone for in the first place instead of a stereo microscope.So now I'm thinking of adding a camera to my microscope... Maybe an IMX 385 v2 (not sure what the difference is to V1) but not sure if I should get the auto-focus one or not.

author: itscoldoutside
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 07:59:12 pm
content: You don't want Auto Focus, and IMX385 v2 is probably the best camera on aliexpress these days since the IMX290 cameras don't actually have IMX290 sensors in them any more sadly.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 08:54:32 pm
content: If its a standalone camera, I would definitely want autofocus if the budget is there.If its a trinocular camera, whats the downside to autofocus?