Better quality Fluke or more features in an Extech? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:06:42 pm
content: Hi, I am building up my lab and I want to buy a better multimeter (I currently have an 830 series multimeter - well multiple of them as the probes keep disintegrating after a week of use) and I am currently thinking of either the Fluke 115 or the Extech EX330. I am not sure whether to go with a cheaper meter with more features like NCV detector and temp probe, or a higher quality meter with a bit less features. Or perhaps there's a better option that I'm not aware of.Currently, I can get the Extech for 63,51€ or the Fluke for about 130€. Budget is up to 150€.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:19:34 pm
content: Those are both rather poor meters. That Fluke is an electrician's meter, so you will lack things like low current ranges on that. And that Extech 330 is hard to recommend, Extech has a lot of problems with manufacturing quality.Look at the Brymen meters, for ex. E.g. the BM235 (that Dave is also selling) costs about 85 euro and has more features than both the Extech and Fluke - and for less than the Fluke costs. Brymen is a first class meter brand so you would be buying a safe and robust meter on par with the Flukes.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:28:03 pm
content: Right, I see. One of my concerns is long-term durability, as I want a meter that will last for a while. I assume from what you're saying that the Extech won't. How is Brymen on that regard?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:35:13 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 22, 2019, 03:28:03 pmFirst class.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:45:53 pm
content: Great! Do you know any good places to buy it in Spain/Europe? I'm assuming it's a bit more expensive here because it's shipped from Aus?

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 04:21:37 pm
content: And actually, just a quick question, after buying a decent DMM, how much do I need to worry about calibration? Does it need to be done often? Or do I need to take it to someone qualified every, say, 5 years? Or is it not going to go too much out of cal for electronic projects measurements?

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 04:53:24 pm
content: I've found some good used Flukes locally at pawn shops; typically a 115 goes for about US$30-50 here while a 179 is typically about US$70. Every Fluke I've picked up, despite varying age and condition, has been very accurate on all modes, so I haven't bothered to get any of them calibrated. You can't even buy Brymen or most other quality meters brand new in the stores here, so I really haven't had anything to compare them to except a few off-brands and one Klein DMM I found for pennies on the dollar. The Flukes compare well to my bench DMMs though, so I haven't had any need to track down a better model. I use my bench units for precision measurements, though, so I don't worry too much about the portables as long as they're in spec.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 05:00:35 pm
content: For most hobbyist uses, calibration is a nonissue. The general run of measurement tools is fine for anything you might care to do.Callibration is usually only important where you need to prove your measurement's integrity, say for inspection of qualification or scientific disclosure. Think about the ramifications of a measurement error; you probably won't much care and can't tell anyway.If I measure a battery voltage at 1.477 Volts when in fact it's really 1.462 Volts, is that going to have an effect on my project?Sanity check is needed for this stuff. I am as guilty as anyone; I spent money on a six digit voltmeter that I couldn't really justify, but then this is a hobby and I enjoy having it. I have several rather accurate voltmeters and thay all agree, which makes me smile. But doesn't have any other practical effect.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 05:19:08 pm
content: I have used an Extech EX540 (rebranded CEM DT9939) for almost seven years now for work. It's coming up for calibration. So far, the lettering has scrubbed off in a few places, the case has faded, co-worker broke the selector switch when they turned it past the dead stop. That's really been the only thing I have noticed. The worse parts IMO of the meter are the stand is hard to pull out. Normally, I use a screwdriver. The bargraph updates at the same rate as the rest of the display, making it useless. Ruby Electronics had these for $120 USD. I think this was less than I paid for the 115.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 06:04:14 pm
content: Thanks for the suggestions, by the way, does anybody with an Extech EX330 have any comments on its durability?Quote from: janoc on June 22, 2019, 03:19:34 pmI am seeing other reviews saying it has good build quality, so not sure on who's right haha

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 06:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 22, 2019, 03:45:53 pmWelectron, TME.. and others...Google Brymen

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 06:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 22, 2019, 06:04:14 pmI didn't have 330 but I had two EX470 and it was a mess - one arrived DOA, with broken range switch, the other one was a replacement for it but it was all sorts of flaky, so I have sold it. Extech is a low end brand, meters cheaply made and the quality varies depending on which Chinese subcontractor has assembled the meters for them (some are even straight rebrands). If you have 150 euro budget you can do much better than buying Extechs.If you want a Brymen, then the Polish TME is a good and reliable importer:https://www.tme.euhttps://www.tme.eu/fr/details/bm235/multimetres-numeriques-mobiles/brymen/#I have bought the BM867 from them and no problems whatsoever sending it to France. Btw, even that meter would fit in your 150 euro budget - it costs 142 eur - and it is a totally different class of meter compared to the two you have been asking about. The only complaint is that it is HUGE (no joke - almost 1.5x the size of BM235 and that isn't a small meter) and that it doesn't measure temperature (869 does, I think).I have got my BM235 from Dave directly, it was slightly higher price due to the extra AU$20 shipping (didn't have to pay any customs or VAT on import). I have paid AU$155 all together in 2016, so about 94 EUR. However, the prices have changed since, that was at the time when it was a brand new model. But still, 94 euro is a fair price for that and it supported Dave, so no problem! (Dave's meter also has a blue "bumper" and EEVBlog branding, the original Brymen has red one one and lacks the EEVBlog logo).Both the 867 and 235 are so solidly built you could probably bludgeon someone to death with them (esp. with the 867!) and they would be no worse for the wear. I didn't attempt any worse abuse on them than just having them on the bench but they feel extremely rugged.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:34:48 am
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 22, 2019, 03:45:53 pmYou can get the BM235 from moderator Simons UK shop:https://simonselectronics.co.uk/product-category/test-equipmant/

author: GerryR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:42:27 am
content: I use clamp meters when not in my shop / lab. I have the Extech EX655 and it has serve me well for some time now. I have several Extech instruments and have not had any problems with any of them. Following is a product review I did for the EX655 meter (no affiliation with Extech):I went crazy looking for a full function Clamp Meter and came across the EX655 from Extech (parent company FLIR). I design, build and service automation equipment and control systems, and when an older meter of mine, also a full function clamp meter, started to give me problems, the search began (my older meter is no longer made). Many meters, both expensive and inexpensive have truncated ranges of resistance, frequency and capacitance, some with no "Lo-Z," no Lo-pass Filter for troubleshooting Variable Frequency Drives and with no "inrush" capability, so I had to carry multiple meters to cover all my needs. (Most meters are designed today for very limited, specific service needs, like HVAC.) When I thought I had finally found one with all the capabilities I needed, it came with a display with no back-light. Back it went for a refund.Well, the EX655 has it all in one neat compact package and it has a fast display update as well. I am very pleased with it and hope to use it for a long time. (At my age, I'm thinking my son will get to enjoy it as well!) Good product, good value.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 01:19:34 am
content: To answer the OP's question about the Extech 330, I have two of its little brother - Extech 320 (minus the capacitance and temperature function), otherwise same form factor and display.Both meters are slightly off out of the box, so it gave me a reason to open them up and adjust them using the voltage reference I have. I can tell you the horror story about the 330 build quality is true, soldering was of poor quality, it resembles more of a home-made kit made by someone without much soldering skill. I use these two meters periodically, and neither of them have failed, properly adjusted (there are 2 pots in the 320, 4 pots in the 330), they give reasonable accuracy, not great. I would put these meters in the low-mid end market, if I can only have one meter, they will not be the one I pick.I do not have the Fluke 115, but I have a new Fluke 179. It does not have the NIST cert option, but out of the box, the meter was spot-on against the reference. If there's any difference, it is in the last digit, well within specification. The build quality is excellent, it is a meter you can trust out in the field. But as other have pointed out, it is more geared towards electrician, and not for bench work if you need high resolution in the low current/voltage range. I think the 87 V might be a better all-purpose meter for mixed use.For hand held meters, the calibration only involves 1-3 pots in the low end models (typically DC voltage and AC voltage). You can easily accomplish this with a cheap e-Bay voltage standard and an calibrated function generator. For more sophisticated ones like the higher end Fluke, the cal is done through the control and there is no need to open up the case, but there are a lot more test points which would require more cal equipment.No experience with the Bryman, but if Dave trust them, I trust his judgement.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 10:54:35 am
content: I would advise NOT to adjust your dmm yourself.The Cal laboratories have equipment to test and adjust ALL functions, that is Volt, Amps, Resistance, temperature, Capacitance, Hertz etcThe normal procedure is to select a range, apply a known value usually 75/80% full scale for the range. Then adjust the dmm reading to mtach the applied source.Cal labs usually do NOT adjust equipment unless they are out of specifications for the device.I doubt that most hobbyists have the equipment to do this.(How many of you have a voltage source up to 1000V? Current source upto 20A etc)Yes, it is a good idea to have equipment to verify the dmm is working correctly (the Vrefs, test resistor etc) but they should NOT be regarded as calibration standards.The only dmm that is worth calibrating at home is the free Harbour Freight or those cheap DT830 dmms.They often are out of cal new in box and there is only 1 adjustment pot (if you are lucky, some of the most recent DT830 dmms do not even bother fitting the cal pot hence the outof cal new). Most of the time with these you can only make it better rather than do harm, make it worse.

author: DDunfield
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 10:59:07 am
content: Of the dozen or so multimeters in my lab, 6 are Flukes and 1 is Extech, which says something on it's own.No need to expound on the virtues of Fluke, they are accurate, well built and will generally bounce higher than others meters without damage (I've inadvertently tested this a couple of times) - nuff said.The Extech that I have is the MN35 which is a lower-end "mini". I got it because I needed a temperature probe in hurry one day and the local shop had it on sale for something like $25.As expected for the price difference, it's lighter and feels flimsier than the Fluke, but that being said, I've not found it to be a bad meter.I've seen reports of Extech being poor build quality, but I'd not say that about mine. Everything fits well together, soldering looks good, switch has good action, probe sockets seem good, stand is solid, boot fits well etc.Accuracy seems reasonable, it has a good set of functions and ranges and quite a nice large/clear display for it's size.My only real complaint is that since you have to remove the back to remove the battery (I don't use mine enough to keep the battery in it), they should have put metal receivers for bolts to hold the back on. Instead they used screws that just go into plastic bits under the circuit board. So you have to be careful not to over-tighten/strip the threads in the plastic.I do find the mini Extech a good step up from the tiny meters that live in my laptop bag. Depending on my needs when I am working off-site, it will often get tossed into my scope bag as it has a good set of functions in quite a bit smaller package than most of my other meters.Dave

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 22, 2019, 03:19:34 pmAgreed.You don't want an electricans meter. Not sure about Extech quality these days, but the 330 is an old meter now, better value can be had.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:36:08 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 22, 2019, 03:28:03 pmReturns of the Brymen are quite minimal. Not zero though, but no meter has a zero defect rate with time. I don't think a single return has been a physical fault (apart from the early cracking inductor problem that has been fixed), no busted range switches or sockets which are the two parts that get physical wear.Brymens have a very good well earned reputation. The BM235 is built like a small tank.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:43:38 pm
content: Well thanks for all the insight guys. Now, do I go for the Brymen or buy the EEVblog version? I’ll have to think about it... the blue does look better tho

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:44:01 pm
content: Quote from: NoisyBoy on June 23, 2019, 01:19:34 amI've used Brymen from about the mid 90's with their first models. I thought they were pretty good back then for a cheapie brand, but in the decades since they have continually improved to were they are now probably in the top 3 brands world wide.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:47:39 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 23, 2019, 12:43:38 pmThey are identical, so whatever is cheaper for you. But my one comes with the better probes as standard.Also, I'm not sure about firmware versions in the Brymen branded models. All the firmware updates and hardware mods have been driven by EEVblog customers, so I'm not 100% sure the Brymen branded one would have those fixes. I presume they would, but beware of someone that might have old stock.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 03:48:05 pm
content: Just to mix things up..There is also a new "budget" metraline series from metrawatt, those will fit in your budget as well (top model is 140 euro incl. vat.)I have no personal experience with these new ones but they should be pretty good..https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/basicdevices.htm

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 06:30:41 am
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 22, 2019, 03:45:53 pmI live in Spain, too.If you want the ordinary Brymen version (not EEVBLOG blue one) then you can get one direct fromBrymen.I got mine fromwelectron, they give some upgrades for a good price and EEVBLOG discount.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 12:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 24, 2019, 06:30:41 amIt's about 95 eur from Brymen and 109 from Welectron. Here in the EEVblog shop it's about 90 thanks to the sale. If I pay with crypto, it comes to about 81, so it looks like it's the cheapest option. I guess it will be a bit slower but I don't mind that. However, do I have to pay import taxes on the meter when it gets to the EU? If so, will it be on the subtotal or the final amount?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 01:44:05 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 24, 2019, 12:08:08 pmNot really true. Brymen don't do a Blue meter. The plain red version is only 90 Euros from Welectron plus they do free shipping.Dave says the EEVBLOG edition has the gold leads, if you go for a red one they're 10 Euros extra (at Welectron).Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 24, 2019, 12:08:08 pmVery probably. Youmightget lucky but anything over $50 usually gets stopped and you have to pay 21% IVA on item+shipping cost. Correos will also add some handling fees (another 14 Euros IIRC) and you get to do lots of paperwork.Welectron will look cheap afterwards and you'll have wasted a month waiting for it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 02:01:10 pm
content: BM257 extra kit from Welectron...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 02:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 24, 2019, 12:08:08 pmNo idea about Spain but here in France I didn't have to pay anything when ordering from Australia.It arrived by regular post and they don't charge customs nor VAT for small amounts like this. If you want to avoid problems avoid Fedex/UPS/DHL and such (not sure whether Dave offers those as a shipping option) - they will likely charge you a flat fee for doing the import paperwork regardless of the value of the goods and also declare the customs/VAT so you will have to pay that as well.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 02:11:15 pm
content: Dave only offers DHL, so I assume in that case I'd need to pay VAT. If anybody has experience ordering from this site in particular be sure to let me know, but I think I will get it from Welectron.EDIT:Quote from: Fungus on June 24, 2019, 06:30:41 amI didn't see anything about a discount on their page. Is it some sort of coupon code?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 02:12:11 am
content: Quote from: janoc on June 24, 2019, 02:04:17 pmDHL Courier is an option, otherwise it goes DHL ecommerce which gets handed over to your local countries postal system and goes through customers the usual way.

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 09:29:51 am
content: Hey Dave, is it common for shipments to the EU to get stopped at customs to pay import tax? If I don’t have to pay import then ordering from here is cheaper than from Welectron actually

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 06:49:51 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on June 26, 2019, 09:29:51 amThat varies tremendously country by country and those fees are always recipient's responsibility. Dave has no means to know this (unless someone reports it here), IMO.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2019, 07:16:57 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 26, 2019, 06:49:51 pmMy experience living in Spain is that anything sent by ordinary post with more than about $50 declared value will get probably get stopped. Anything with more than $100 declared value will definitely get stopped.Anything sent via Fedex/DHL/UPS/courier will get stopped, maybe opened if it has a low declared value (and they probably x-ray the ones they don't physically open) to make sure there's nothing expensive inside.Tax is paid on the valueplus shipping costs. You'll also get a 14 Euro handling fee for ordinary post (Correos) and maybe as much as 30 Euros if Fedex/DHL/UPS is doing the customs paperwork for you.Bottom line: Getting a $100 multimeter through unmolested isn't a chance I'd take.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 27, 2019, 12:23:14 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 26, 2019, 06:49:51 pmYes, sorry I can't tell you. Even in the same country, some get hit with import taxes etc other don't, it sails right though.I can say that Germany and the nordic countries can be quite troublesome, or basically the EU in general.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 27, 2019, 12:24:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 26, 2019, 07:16:57 pmIIRC, I have heard of issues with Spain.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2019, 07:13:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 27, 2019, 12:23:14 pmDenmark is fine from my experience - e.g. I have bought my former Rigol 1052E from China right after your review few years ago - and it has arrived no problems, no questions asked. The same with orders from Digikey (shipped from the US) and many other things.Here in France Digikey is a pain because they ship using a courier (DHL I believe) which will always do the customs declaration (and charge you for doing so), even if you have bought two resistors and no fees would be due otherwise. Otherwise stuff from Asia (AliExpress and similar) is arriving fine, even orders in 100-200 euro range (e.g. colleague's 3D printer and laser cutter recently). I think if the package is below a certain value, the French customs will never stop it and even larger/more valuable packages are not checked systematically.When I lived in Switzerland (not EU but EEA member), it was the other way around -every single packagefrom outside of Switzerland was stopped by the Post and I got charged both VAT and customs (if applicable). Fortunately the Swiss VAT is low but still. I guess German pedantry and Ordnung (now Tooki will likely throw a cuckoo clock or a cow bell at me for calling the Swiss "German").

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2019, 07:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 27, 2019, 07:13:47 pmRules is rules. If we don't follow the rules then society breaks down.In all fairness, the Swiss get quite a lot in return for their taxes.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2019, 08:58:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 27, 2019, 07:41:11 pmSure, I have never advocated fraud or anything of the sort. But I guess we all agree that having to pay these fees and the added aggravation with having to deal with the extra paperwork/customs office is something nobody is a fan of.Taxes vs what you get for them - that would be another debate, e.g. compared to Danes (who are at the completely opposite end of the taxation spectrum compared to the Swiss and very different mentality). But let's not go there and keep the thread on topic.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 12:37:56 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 27, 2019, 08:58:06 pmYep. It's not the taxes that piss me off, it's all the "handling fees" and paperwork.Why can't they just bring it it my house and hand me a bill for the 21% tax? Why should companies be making money off the fact that I have to pay taxes?

author: GoodCrossing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 09:47:42 pm
content: Well, just a quick final update, the meter arrived about a week ago and I'm absolutely loving it! It's great to finally have a decent multimeter. I guess all my cheapo 830 meters will be used as a secondary display from now on!

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 10:51:38 pm
content: Quote from: GoodCrossing on July 18, 2019, 09:47:42 pmExcellent, enjoy your new toy!