HND vs BEng in Electronics - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 06:40:07 pm
content: Hi,I appreciate that both HND and BEng have a final year project........are they roughly of the same technical level for both HND and Degree in Electronics?Apologies if this only applies to UK,.......i am not sure if HND and BEng are UK specific words(?).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 06:55:13 pm
content: No, they are not.HND != BEng.Neither is "better", but they are not and should not be "equal".

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 07:18:33 pm
content: HiI have both.HND is more of a qualification for technicians.BEng is for engineers, usually design engineers.A BEng is very specific degree for practical engineers. It is normally only issued by courses that have a working period (ie intern or work placement).If not year in industry, a BSc is normally given.

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 09:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 23, 2019, 07:18:33 pmAt my university, a BEng was given regardless of any time in industry. BEng recipients did more credits than their BSc counterparts. HNDs are typically provided after two years, whereas in the UK, BEngs are 3 year courses, unless you take a year in industry.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:06:27 pm
content: BEng and BSc are both given interchangeably by different universities for similar courses, in my observation here in Germany. Especially in universities of applied sciences, you will likely have a mandatory industry semester for both.Btw., treez, aren't you already a SMPS wizard?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 09:19:26 pm
content: QuoteThere are a small number of UK universities that DO give BEng without a year in industry. I checked with a colleague last year and I was surprised.However, it is unlikely these courses are acredited with IET or BCS. Meaning that the path to Chartered Engineer is much harder. It is better to get a degree from a course that is accredited.The year working is invaluable experience anyway, I do not understand why anyone would avoid itIn many cases, it leads to a job offer after graduation.

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 10:53:50 pm
content: I respectfully disagree - in fact I would guesstimate that most offer BEng without a year in industry. Why does a student need a year an industry when they have taken something like 30-40 extra credits each year? This was in a top Russell-Group University, of course with IET accreditation. Any course in the UK without it is near useless. I avoided the year in industry because I didn't want to waste a year being paid little and dragging my degree out - instead I could complete my three year BEng, then my PhD asap. Others who didn't bother with a year in industry felt similar; they wanted to get their degree done and start a career asap.

author: hagster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 06:10:13 am
content: I have both. The HND allowed me to skip the foundation year of the Beng.I will say that the Beng was much much harder.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 08:25:52 am
content: Why are you asking? Are you considering taking them or are you looking to employ someone with either or both of those qualifications?I only have the HND. I believe the BEng is a higher level qualification. If you've not studied for a long time and have neither qualification, then I suggest studying the HND first.If you're looking at CVs, then a candidate with the BEng should obviously be placed ahead of one with an HND, but on the job experience and attitude should be more important than qualifications. If you have to choose between someone fresh out of university, with a BEng, but little work experience and an arrogant attitude and one with 20 years experience, pick the latter, unless you want to have a trainee who you can pay less, but have to spend time mentoring.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 11:24:37 am
content: QuoteI was thinking of the quickest way to get someone with all the ability to design power supplies a “piece of paper” (ie qualification), that would enable them to be taken seriously when applying for power supply design jobs.In a HND for example, if someone were mentored through a final year project such as a 1kW solar inverter, then to all extents and purposes, that would be fine, and a BEng wouldn’t be needed.….however, if HND final year projects are just stuff like “design a 555 timer based oscillator” etc etc, then a HND really would be a waste of time.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 12:35:45 pm
content: I agree with zero999, pick someone with actual experience.A HND gives the person the knowledge to understand circuits but not necessarily the knowledge or understanding to design them.A BEng (or BSc) is meant to give a broad understanding of most of the basic understanding of all aspects of ELRCTRICAL and electronic engineering. There is little practical knoledge in the teaching parts. That is gained by the final year project and the 1 year working. This is where the practicle knowledge and experience of design and degunning that you are looking for is gained.Try to get someone with 2/3 years or more experince. At 2/3 years, some will be looking to move on anyway.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 10:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 28, 2019, 12:35:45 pmI agree an HND will not give someone the knowledge or understanding to design circuits, but I don't see how a BEng does. Granted, I haven't studied for a BEng, but I have looked at the syllabus and it doesn't contain everything required to design circuits (it just covers what the HND does, in greater depth) and I've met my fair share of clueless graduates.Personally speaking, an HND has given me sufficient background to to learn how to design circuits. My gaps in understanding have been filled with practical experience and informal study from books and the Internet. The main advantage of studying formally is it forces one to cover subjects which are of no interest to them, but they will find useful later on.I'm not saying there's no point in studying for an BEng and that one should stop at HND level. If one is offered the opportunity of further study, they should take it.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 10:45:30 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 28, 2019, 08:25:52 amI disagree.The recruitment process should assess the necessary requirements to be able to do the job.It should assess each candidate against the requirements.It is unlikely that you you will find a candidate that satisfies all necessary requirements. In that case, choose a candidate that can grow into the job.Determining that isn't difficult, but isn't guaranteed, and does require technical expertise is present during the interview process.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 08:03:24 pm
content: i have a colleague with a production eng degree, and he is expert in mech eng and solidworks....he has A grade A levels in maths , f.maths , phys and chem.He is very talented at electronics, but cannot put in for power electronics jobs because he doesnt have the degree/HND in electronics.He is 29 years old......is it worth him doing a HND or BEng purely for the project so he can then do a mains inverter say as a project, and then go out and seek professional work in such areas?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 08:19:23 pm
content: Depends on a few factors.If the company is willing to let him do the work,Will the company be insured to let someone without qualifications or experience do the work.Some companies will allow people to transfer with the right training, I have been in a few places that let people transfer into my field - software engineeringIf either of the above apply, then yes he will need to get some qualification in the electronics field.Generally speaking, once you have experience on your CV for something, companies will be willing to employ you for that. However, it is expected to have some qualification that is related to the work.

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 08:34:06 pm
content: Quote from: treez on July 29, 2019, 08:03:24 pmI find this difficult to properly answer. What is 'worth' it, will vary greatly from person to person. Does he feel his current field will be non-existent in 10 years? Does he want to earn lots of money? Does he want a new challenge? All valid reasons why people might consider it worth it or not, but these really apply to the individual.However, if I was pressed to give any advice based off of the presented information, I would suggest simply applying for the jobs they are interested in anyway - or at least contacting the relevant hiring departments. It may be that the specific job is only asking for, say, an eee BEng as a way of filtering people of certain academic ablility, or who might be 'fresh' to industry and can become long-term company assets - in this case an engineer from another field might still be suitable. On the other hand, maybe they specify eee BEng because they _must_ have this qualification for xyz reasons.Really, what I'm trying to get at (perhaps unhelpfully) is that there are too many unknown or personal variables to provide a specific answer. Though, I would consider just approaching companies anyway. This route is by far the quickest and will answer your question about HND vs BEng when (or if) they reject your friend.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 09:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: treez on July 29, 2019, 08:03:24 pmGood. Where high energies are concerned, there is a higher chance third parties could be injured."Talented" is a meaningless adjective.QuoteUnanswerable, other than "yes, repeat no".Providing an answer would require much more information, and even then personal circumstance and preferences are key components.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 10:28:56 pm
content: Quote…Thanks, I agree with this. I think doing an HND would be a good way for this person (who already understands power electronics) to get that “piece of paper” that will allow them to successfully apply for Power electronics jobs.Regarding the HND syllabus, I have seen HND electronics books where they do Convolution, and Laplace and fourier transforms, and second order differential equations etc etc.,..so I think its deep enough for the purpose here.The burning question is: What are the final year projects like on a HND?......if an HND electronics student puts in for a Power electronics final year project, then what kind of thing will they be tasked to do…….?......would it be eg “design and build a mains inverter” or “design and build a PFC’d TV power supply”….or would it be only cinchy stuff like a 1W linear voltage regulator into a dummy load resistor?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 10:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: treez on August 03, 2019, 10:28:56 pmWhen doing my second year electronic engineering degree at university, I showed my maths lecture notes to someone doing a maths degree. He was horrified, noting it was pretty much the same as his whole second year course.It never crossed my mind that made me in any way equivalent to a mathematician.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2019, 06:26:29 pm
content: You could always enrol on an Open University degree course Treez. It would show a potential employer that you are serious and they might even sponsor you. You can also carry on earning at the same time.