Is it just me or have rechargeable NiMH improved? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 10:49:57 pm
content: I have been using these Energizer 2500 mAh NiMH batteries for several years and decided to buy a few more packs of batteries to run a portable Tecsun shortwave radio and a Sony Walkman (yes, for nostalgic purposes). I decided on a bit pricier Duracells from Amazon, same 2500 mAh rating NiMH (see photo below).I took my new Duracells out of the pack and they barely fit into my electronics (very tight fit). Did not even charge them, they come “pre-charged” straight from the factory. I have been using them for a month, still haven’t charged them because they are not running out! I must have played over a dozen cassettes and listened to my shortwave radio for many many hours. Battery indicators show still full! I don’t understand it. Either someone is playing a trick on me, these things have improved tremendously or I had crappy Energizers before and didn’t realize it. Anyone have experience with this? I never remember my Energizers ever lasting this long from day one. The Duracells feel heavier than the Energizer but I may be imagining it (I need a scale to verify).I’m wondering once the Duracells finally run out if I am going to get the same capacity once I charge them in my Energizer wall charger (the one seen in the photo). Is it the batteries or the charger? The charger says output 2.8VDC 360mAx2(AA) per channel (it will charge a pair together, or 2 pairs which is all 4 batteries).

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 11:10:28 pm
content: If you are talking about the difference low-self-discharge (LSD) NiMH batteries make, that's a huge difference, especially in self-discharge rate, but that's not exactly about the past couple of years. Sanyo introduced the Eneloop brand of low-self-discharge NiMH batteryin 2005. Though I'm sure you can still buy non-LSD NiMH batteries if you try. LSD batteries are often sold as "pre-charged". The low self discharge rate makes selling them pre-charged feasible. Older style NiMH batteries would self discharge in months.Check the specifications of your charger. If it was properly designed for NiMH cells with -dV/dt termination, then it should be fine with LSD batteries. If it's a dumb charger that supplies a constant current for a set period of time (that's what it sounds like based on the specs), then I'd recommend a better charger if you don't want to boil the batteries.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 11:14:16 pm
content: I think you need a better charger, one that charges each cell individually. There will be an LED indicator for each slot. A 4 cell charger that does either AA or AAA in any combination is not expensive.I also bought a Panasonic version last year. It was about $24 with 4x AAA Eneloop batteries.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 11:23:01 pm
content: Take a look at this if you want the ultimate NiMH AA charger:http://www.ultrasmartcharger.com/

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:53:08 am
content: Thanks for the explanation! I’d like to get another charger from Amazon but not sure what would be better than my dumb existing Energizer one. As mentioned previously it seems to just have a single output of 2.8VDC at 360mAx2 (per AA pair) and a single green light when charging which eventually turns off when it has finished. It will do 2 pairs (4 batteries) but there is only one green light so I don’t know how it is supposed to figure things out per battery, or even between pairs of batteries. I don’t think it’s based on a timer, it must sense something.Anyways, any suggestions for anything? I really don’t need any more batteries at this time but most chargers come with more batteries (unless it’s a good deal to buy both). I also don’t want to spend a fortune, and I don’t know which chargers are actually any better or suitable for these LSD batteries.I found this one, from Panasonic but geared towards eneloop batteries. It seems reasonable and not too expensive… will it work ok on other brands like Duracell or is there something special with eneloop that makes this charger detect them and have issues with other brands? Your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated:https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-BQ-CC17SBA-Advanced-Individual-Indicator/dp/B00JHKSLM8There is also this Duracell one with a few extra batteries for only a few bucks more but I don’t know if it is as good a charger:https://www.amazon.ca/Duracell-Battery-Charger-Speed-4000/dp/B00DTE6QSY

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 02:49:45 am
content: That Panasonic will work fine with all NiMH cells, it's a little slow but it charges nicely. You can find areview herefrom one of our own members.If you have an IKEA nearby, their LADDA series of batteries are excellent if they stock the Japanese ones (and cheap!). If you ever find a LSD NiMH cell made in Japan then you know it comes from the same factory as the original eneloops. (there is only one NiMH factory in Japan, the FDK factory)IIRC some of the Amazon Basics cells were made in Japan but it can be region dependant. Might be worth putting it on a watch list and wait for a sale.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 02:51:23 am
content: The Panasonic chargers are a bit picky on internal resistance and generally do not work with lower quality cells. However, most low self discharge NiMH are basically remarked Eneloops and should work fine.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 03:10:21 am
content: Quote from: edy on November 14, 2022, 01:53:08 amI have the BQ-CC17 and it appears to work well but is slow, only does AA/AAA cells and doesn't give any information like capacity, etc.I also have this one:https://www.amazon.com/IQ-338XL-Universal-Charger-Analyzer-Charges/dp/B01MQWDIW9It does AAA/AA/C/D NiMH and 18650 Li-Ion cells, has selectable charge rates and gives readings for internal resistance, voltage, total charge capacity and so on. It also has a discharge/charge cycle function. I highly recommend it although I don't think I paid quite that much for it. It also does 9V NiMH, but only in the dumb trickle mode, which actually makes sense because of the 6 cells in series.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:04:21 am
content: Quote from: edy on November 14, 2022, 01:53:08 amThat looks fine. It charges each cell individually, and it's rather inexpensive. There's nothing special about eneloop charge requirements vs other brands. One feature it lacks is a variable charge rate. It looks like it's fixed at 0.3A for AAs, or 0.15A for AAAs.QuoteThat appears to be set up to charge cells in pairs, instead of individually. If ALL of your devices use cells in pairs, that can work okay. But since I have some devices that use three cells, and others that use one cell, I strongly prefer a charger that charges cells individually, and shuts off the charging of each cell when that particular cell is full.For about a decade, I've been using the MAHA MH-C401FS charger. I've got three of them stashed in various places. One thing I like about it is that it can run directly off an automotive 12V system with no voltage converter, and it comes with an automotive power cord. Of course it also comes with an adapter to run off of mains AC. It has two charge rates: a gentle .3A rate which takes about 5 hours, and a faster 1.0A rate which takes around 100 minutes. And yes, it charges each cell individually, can charge 1, 2, 3, or 4 cells at a time, and they may be any combination of AA or AAA sized.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:45:36 am
content: Quote from: deadlylover on November 14, 2022, 02:49:45 amIn Canada IKEA discontinued LADDA batteries. Too bad, they were cheap and good. I liked them.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 05:17:30 am
content: Quote from: Bud on November 14, 2022, 04:45:36 amHmmm:https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/search/products/?q=laddaLast weekend(Nov 5) Ikea Coquitlam was pretty full of them; sometimes they're sold out, even for weeks in a row.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 07:57:15 am
content: It wouldn't surprise me if all these little 4 cell AA/AAA "smart" chargers were made in the same factory and basically the same inside. The Panasonic is the one I bought last year except I caught it on sale for about $24 with 4x AAA Eneloop batteries. It works fine. The Duracell charges in pairs which makes me suspicious about how it actually works. You really want a "smart" charger that does each cell individually.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 08:10:37 am
content: NiMH cells became dramatically better around 15 years ago, I don't think they have changed much since then though. I've been using a LaCrosse BC-700 charger for mine, it works really well.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 09:07:50 am
content: The battery indicators are usually made with alkaline cells in mind. So they have a threshold of some 1.1-1.3 V. NiMH and NiCd have a rather stable output voltage of some 1.2 - 1.25 V and the voltage is not a good indicator for the residual capacity. A rechargable battery may show as good till 1% charge left or may show as empty when still 95% full, depending on where they set the limit. So a down-side of using rechargible cells is that the battery indicator gets pretty useless.NiMH are more tricky to charge than the old NiCd and a poor charger can reduce the charge cycles a lot. A charger from a battery company that comes with cells at least gives hot they would not sell a poor charger as this would also effect the cells reputation.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 12:01:18 pm
content: Is there any concern with a fast versus slow charger? For example Panasonic has these almost similarly priced chargers that come with 4 AAA, a slow 6 hour and a fast 3 hour charger as well:Slow with batteries:https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-K-KJ17M3A4BA-Battery-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B010U57MSWFast with batteries:https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-Advanced-Individual-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B01N2GHFWDI also see this brand EBL which is much cheaper. Comes with batteries and also individual cell charger. Any thoughts on it’s reputation as the specs seem almost too good:https://www.amazon.ca/EBL-Slot-Battery-Charger-Screen/dp/B08BQYGWHJ

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:04:58 pm
content: Personally, I'd say NiMH cells are a lot better than they used to be. Especially the LSD ones.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:08:48 pm
content: I seem to recall the pet theory with LSD NiMH was it was just older technology, the problem with NiMH was pushing up to say 2850mAh (which I believe Duracell marketed at one point) was making the leakage current on the order of a few mA, enough to discharge the cell within a month or two. Going back down to 2400mAh alleviated a lot of these issues. Has this been disproven?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: Zoli on November 14, 2022, 05:17:30 amThose are rechargeables. I was talking about regular non-rechargeable batteries, in yellow jacket.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:30:25 pm
content: Currently low self-discharge NiMH are very common. If labeled as pre-charged, you can be sure they are LSD cells. Older NiMH went from fully charged to flat in a month if simply left alone.QuoteStumbled on the issue recently when bought 10 wireless wall thermostats. Alkalines fit fine and are easy to remove. Usual eneloops fit tight and not easy to remove, high capacity ones and high capacity amazon basics fit super tight and are very hard to remove. Found ANSI standard, measured battery dimensions. Conclusion is that device manufacturers do not adhere to the standard which says AA must be between 13.5mm and 14.5mm in diameter, and devices must be designed to accept that. Alkalines I measured were mostly about 13.8-13.9mm. Thickest NiMH 14.2-14.3mm.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 14, 2022, 01:08:48 pmWhen Sanyo Eneloop was introduced in 2005, theycomparedthe self discharge rate of the 2000 mAh (typical) Eneloop to 2500 mAh (typical) regular NiMH batteries, where the Eneloop had 85% capacity left after one year, and the regular NiMH battery was basically flat. Now Panasonic (who bought the Eneloop brand from Sanyoin 2013) sells Eneloop pro batteries with 2500 mAh typical capacities that have 85% capacity left after one year. So your claim is that the 2500 mAh (typ) Eneloop pro batteries are the same as the 2500 mAh (typ) non-LSD batteries Sanyo produced in 2005?Quote from: Bud on November 14, 2022, 01:13:11 pmI thought this topic was about rechargeable batteries?

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 02:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on November 14, 2022, 01:13:11 pmThe alkalines were called ALKALISK, not LADDA.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:12:11 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 14, 2022, 01:37:24 pmIt's not my claim, just something I've seen speculated about on the Internet. It does line up with LSD NiMH batteries being notably lower capacity than NiMH has technically been able to achieve.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:21:35 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 14, 2022, 04:12:11 pmAFAIK, the LSD feature is largely due to a thicker and otherwise improved separator. I suppose if the ultra-high capacity versions used thinner separators to leave more space to increase capacity, they might suffer increased self-discharge, so 'going back' would improve this a bit. However, modern LSD NiMH are much, much better than older NiMH, even the ones that had much less capacity. I'm pretty sure present-day LSD represents a significant improvement over any previous NiMH cells, at least at the consumer level in standard cell configurations.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:26:51 pm
content: Take the new cells and old, and compare weight. My kids bought me some hardware store Energizer NiMh D cells, and I could tell immediately by their weight that they must have had about an AA cell worth of real cell inside. When new, they would run my flashlight for about 30 minutes. Now, that's down to 10 minutes, and I just got some new ones off eBay that weight tells me they at least have (something) inside. I will have to use them to see how much longer they last.Jon

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 05:09:29 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 14, 2022, 04:12:11 pmI've seen a lot of speculation on the internet... It does not line up not with the fact that LSD batteries have increased in capacities to match NiMH batteries from 15 years ago, but have a much lower self discharge than said batteries from 15 years ago. Both LSD and non-LSD batteries have increased in capacity, yet the difference in self discharge rate has stayed the same. That is more consistent with LSD batteries using a different construction that limits capacity. The Eneloop press release mentions some improvements like a different alloy for the negative electrode.Can you find data showing the self-discharge rate of <=2000 mAh NiMH batteries before the introduction of Eneloop having a similarly low self-discharge rate as the 2000 mAh (typ) Eneloop batteries?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 05:19:36 pm
content: Quote from: alm on November 14, 2022, 05:09:29 pmI bought a few old generation NiMH cells of 2000 mAh capacity, of varying brands. They all had terrible self-discharge and would be down to zero after a month or so of storage.When tested side by side with the newly introduced Eneloops, the Eneloops not only held their charge for years, but also had a higher discharge voltage and could sustain higher load currents. Eneloops were vastly better in all respects.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:11:36 pm
content: Thanks for all the great info everyone!!! I never thought this much development was going on with regular consumer rechargeable batteries. So I was not imagining things… I didn’t have a leprechaun playing around with my Duracells at night.Remember I hadn’t bought any rechargeables for years, everything these days seems to come with their own built-in batteries or special packs that are proprietary configurations, or some Li-Ion pack. Little did I know how much better new NiMH are compared to my old ones to power my everyday AA/AAA battery devices!Back to the charger question, does anyone have any experience with “EBL” brand stuff? I saw this on Amazon as I want to get something that won’t kill my new Duracells and the specs sound really good for under $30 Canadian (charger and 4x AA and 4x AAA):- 4 Slot Independent charger: can charge 1/2/3/4 AA/AAA Ni-MH Ni-CD rechargeable batteries. It can charge the number of AA AAA batteries randomly you needed, you don’t need to charge batteries in pair anymore.- Smart LCD display: With LCD screen to show the charging process, battery status can be easily monitored.- High capacity rechargeable batteries - 2800mAh AA battery & 1100mAh AAA battery, has long lasting and superior performance. EBL 1.2V Ni-MH AA AAA rechargeable battery can be recharged up to 1200 times.- Low self-discharge - Batteries will remain 90% juice when you leaving it for no use 1 year.- Package: 1 x FY-409 Battery Charger, 1 x 4 pack AAA 1100mAh rechargeable batteries, 1 x 4 pack AA 2800mAh rechargeable batteries, 1 x User Manual, 1 x Micro USB Cable.https://www.amazon.ca/EBL-Slot-Battery-Charger-Screen/dp/B08BQYGWHJFirst, I don’t believe the mAh rating on any of those batteries. I don’t really need any more batteries, I just want a decent charger. It says will retain 90% “juice”after 1 year so I assume they are LSD type and the charger that comes with it will not kill them or my Duracells. The Panasonic smart charger alone is about $20 so for only a bit more I can get a bunch more batteries, assuming this EBL brand charger is any good. The only drawback is it uses USB inputs so I’ll need a wall-wart adapter from some other device to plug into the wall. My other chargers would just plug into 120V mains.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 10:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 14, 2022, 10:11:36 pmNot with that model, but I have an EBL 906 (large per-cell smart charger with basic screen) that isn't very good--it seems to occasionally overcharge/overheat cells and so on. I used it before I got the other two I mentioned and I wasn't as happy with NiMH batteries then. To be sure, some of the batteries themselves weren't good, but since I got the 338XL even most of my Tenergy cells have been behaving. And for those that don't, the 338XL calls them out if you know how to use it.OTOH, I have the EBL 9V Li-ion replacements and their specific EBL charger and they have all been great.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:34:28 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on November 14, 2022, 04:26:51 pmAA are by far the most common, and most C and D NiMH cells are actually just AA or occasionally sub-C. True C and D NiMH are much more expensive and harder to find.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:52:47 am
content: If you look carefully at the photos the Duracell batteries say charge at 250mA for 16 hours. My energizer charger is 300mA output so it would be slowly charging these batteries… maybe 13-14 hours because of the slightly higher mA. I don’t know what the Energizer charger does to figure out when to shut off or if it actually just continues charging while the green light simply shows some parameter it’s reading off the pair of batteries. As well, will eneloop charger from Panasonic work on these Duracells or will it have problems?It’s quite strange that Duracell doesn’t really make too many chargers… it has a value charger and a premium charger. The value charger says 8 hours and the value charger comes with 1300 mAh AA’s which get charged in pairs, which makes me think it’s just a dumb charger probably output 250-300mA which would make a 2500mAh battery need about twice as long to fully charge (hence why my battery says 250mA for 16h)? Or because they are paired they are in series and act as if they are a 2x1300mAh battery, meaning that an individual-cell charger would also do 8h charge if individual slots also received 300mA?Their premium charger (Ion Speed 4000) is 1-2.5h and it also comes with 1300mAh AA batteries and 750mAh AAA’s. I don’t have any specs on it but it claims 4000 mW of charging power. Assuming a pair of batteries takes 2.8V input and 4000 mW is for both pairs, one pair would be 2000 mW which would mean probably around 700-750mA charging current. Am I doing the math ok?The Panasonic 6h charger for 750mA eneloop AAA’s outputs 1.5V at 150mA and will go to 300mA for AA’s (which it claims 7h to charge 2000 mAh AA batteries). So the Panasonic is using same current (300mA) and same charge time (7-8h) to charge a 2000 mAh eneloop while Duracells is charging a 1300 mAh battery in pairs for about same time, because the Duracell is charging in pairs?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:46:46 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 15, 2022, 03:34:28 amThese are the ones to get and they aren't terribly expensive given what they are:https://power.tenergy.com/16pcs-tenergy-centura-nimh-d-1-2v-8000mah-rechargeable-battery/They have a 'Premium' high-self discharge 10Ah version and a 3Ah 'Centura Lite' version, neither of which seems worthwhile. I've been using the regular (heavy) Centura model for a while now and they really do hold up.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 11:14:27 am
content: QuoteI don't use many of that kind, so instead I use an adapter that takes AA and just holds them in the right place. They last long enough, and being able to replace with common stock is better than keeping C or D spares.Random find:https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08CKVQRVH

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 02:15:23 pm
content: I see this one looks good but is a bit on the pricey side:https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00SNWMQ40It looks like the one shown here in this bigclive video, which seems to critique smart chargers but I’m not sure what his final conclusion is except you need to sometimes revitalize batteries that drop voltage too low or reverse and that smart chargers don’t always help inform the user. Anyways, bigclive seems to be using that Tenergy charger I linked above:I’m looking at something that will do slow charging, I don’t care about speed as I have enough batteries to swap. I just want to make sure it doesn’t kill the batteries. These Duracells mention absolutely nothing about whether they are LSD or similar to eneloops, maybe they make them or maybe they just rebadge them from another supplier and not allowed to use certain trademarked terms? They are obviously low self discharge as they come pre-charged and so far have far outlasted anything I’ve ever used before. I fully expect to need to spend a good 16 hours charging them slowest safest method possible like it says on the package (250mA for 16h). But the Panasonic eneloop charger which comes with 4 AAA at 6h charge time doesn’t tell me anything about how many mA it uses to charge.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:22:16 pm
content: QuoteUntil they state 'low self-leakage' it probably doesn't matter - you'll be binning them before they discharge.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 03:46:45 pm
content: If they're "pre-charged" they must be the LSD kind, otherwise they'd die sitting on the shelves hahaha. These days you honestly just expect it and from a cursory glance on Amazon AU like 70% of listings are LSD.Changing regions on Amazon is making my head spin, is something like theXTAR VC4available for a good price? (is that CAD26?) Good to have if you ever want to use some 18650's in a flashlight or something.Again I urge you to check outthis sitefor charger reviews. Just sort by the smiley faces and see what's available to you.Don't overthink it too much, these LSD batteries can take a pounding and in all honesty you're probably buying a solid charger that terminates properly. So what if they die an early death and can "only" give you 100-200 cycles before going high internal resistance? I have eneloops from 2009 still serving remote control or clock duty in their retirement.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:01:30 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 15, 2022, 02:15:23 pmIf you don't want to kill your batteries you either need an effective negative-Delta V cutoff or you have to use a very slow trickle charge (<C/40) that takes days on end. 250mA for 16 hours is a terrible way to charge, no matter what it says on the package. Timed chargers are crap, period. Slower chargers are problematic because the lower the charge rate, the less pronounced the - ΔV signal is. I would look for specific models that have been reviewed and tested and are known to work properly. Even the "Panasonic designed for Eneloop" models vary somewhat in effectiveness.The BQ-CC17 is known to work well and would be my first choice if you want inexpensive and only need AAA/AA NiMH capability. It has a charge rate (stated on the unit) of 300mA for AA and 150mA for AAA. Here is a detailed review.https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Panasonic%20BQ-CC17%20UK.html

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 04:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: deadlylover on November 15, 2022, 03:46:45 pmYes thanks, I am over-thinking it. Probably spending way more time on this than I should... time which I could have worked and made 10x as much money and instead I'm worrying about saving a few dollars.Thanks for that list, it'll give me a good place to at least compare the top rated models and get an idea of reputable brand chargers and pick something up in a reasonable price range for my needs.Using that list above I've narrowed it down to these 3 "two smiley face" versions, all of which are "Amazon's choice":1. Panasonic BQ-CC17SBA eneloop Advanced Individual Battery Charger ($19.16 CAN)https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-BQ-CC17SBA-Advanced-Individual-Indicator/dp/B00JHKSLM82. XTAR VC4 Universal Battery Charger ($25.99) (will also do Li-Ion but needs USB power supply)https://www.amazon.ca/XTAR-Battery-Charger-Display-Multi-Functional/dp/B07HDRZYPS3. Nitecore D4 Intelligent Digital LCD 4-Slot Universal Smart Battery Charger ($44.99)https://www.amazon.ca/Intelligent-Universal-IMR%EF%BC%8Cli-ion%EF%BC%8CLiFePO4%EF%BC%8CNi-MH%EF%BC%8CNi-Cd-rechargeable-batteries/dp/B01IBAFA64I've listed them in terms of price. Seems like the XSTAR is fairly versatile and not much more than the more basic Panasonic. Not sure if I want to splurge for the Nitecore. There really isn't anything much less than about $30 with a good reputation. I've looked for charger/battery combos and the best I could come up with are those Panasonic eneloop packages (individual cell charger with either 4AA or 4AAA) in the $40+ range. Not sure if I really want more batteries at this point... I have enough, just want to charge them properly.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:21:17 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 15, 2022, 03:52:47 amThat 250mA at 16 hours is the standard slow charge that is suggested for chargers lacking fancy features to properly terminate the charge.I don't know about others but the Eneloop charger does stop charging when it detects the cells are full, and it charges them individually which is a feature you want. It will work with any NiMH cells.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:06:14 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 15, 2022, 04:36:37 pmYikes! No deals for Canadians, I guess! I can get the charger and 4 AA batteries for $18...https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-K-KJ17MCA4BA-Individual-eneloop-Rechargeable/dp/B00JHKSMJU?th=1

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:09:19 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 15, 2022, 05:21:17 pm250mA is way too high, it will cook cells if they become fully charged. Say you put in a cell that is only half discharged and let it roast for 16 hours. Not good.Some Panasonic chargers are smart, whether fast or slow. Others are dumb and should be avoided.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 15, 2022, 02:15:23 pmWhy? I've been using a Lacrosse BC-700 for more than a decade, I usually charge at 500mA but sometimes I'm lazy and just use the default 250. I have never had a LSD cell fail, unless you count the one that was damaged by a short circuit in a flashlight. Eneloop, Amazon Basics, Fujitsu, all of them are still testing at least at rated capacity, even the ones i bought over 10 years ago. You can easily tell if your cells are LSD, they will come pre-charged and ready to use out of the package. Don't overthink it.

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 07:37:51 pm
content: I've also use the BC700 for many years. But I noticed that the lowest charge-current can indeed cause some problems with Eneloops. I noticed that some cells get hotter than others of the same batch and the charge of the cells differ a lot. Both problems vanished by using higher charging currents.My working theory is that the -deltaV detection fails to detect the slow drop of the cell voltage if charged with low current. With higher charge-currents the cell voltage drops faster and the circuit can detect the end of the charging more reliable. I never measured that so I'm not sure if that is the real explanation. The result of the higher current is as mentioned the cells don't get as hot at the end of the charge and all cells show only a minimal difference of the charge-capacity.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 08:01:40 pm
content: I remember reading somewhere that the -dV detection might be less reliable under 0.3-0.4C, or for a 2500 mAh battery under 750 mA. I've always tried to stay above that value. I use an old Maha MH-C9000 charger that defaults to charging at 1000 mA.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 09:25:28 pm
content: The Panasonic BQ-CC17 is a good charger. I have one and have had no problems with it. It charges the batteries slowly (which is good), and has four individual charging channels. I have various other chargers, but the Panasonic is my set it and forget it option when I just want to charge some batteries.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 10:33:51 pm
content: I had a Maha/Powerex C808 that I used for years. One day something went pop and it quit working. I was too lazy to fix it and after very little research ordered a Nitecore D4. I also needed more AA cells and found the Fujitsu charger with batteries for little more than the cost of the batteries alone. Last year when I needed some AAA cells the Eneloop AAA cells were on sale with the charger pretty cheap. That's how I ended up with three chargers. So far all the batteries and chargers have been working fine.EBL seems to be a decent brand, but the only experience I have with them is their 9 volt rechargeables. I have a couple of the little oval shaped dual battery chargers that I've been using for years with both NiMH and Li-Ion batteries. I prefer the Li-Ion because the capacity is close to a normal 9 volt alkaline battery.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 11:26:35 pm
content: Yes Amazon Canada is more expensive, even after conversion from US to CAN. I need to purchase $35 worth for free shipping, which means I should be able to combine these:1. Panasonic BQ-CC17SBA eneloop Advanced Individual Battery Charger ($19.16)https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-BQ-CC17SBA-Advanced-Individual-Indicator/dp/B00JHKSLM82. Amazon Basics 12-Pack AAA Performance 800 mAh Rechargeable Batteries, Pre-Charged ($15.54)https://www.amazon.ca/AmazonBasics-AAA-Rechargeable-Batteries-12-Pack/dp/B007B9NXACIf that Panasonic charger will do the job, I think that may be easiest way to go. By the way I'm still listening on my WM-FX451 Sony Walkman using those pre-charged 2500 mAh Duracells now for a week, probably on my 20th cassette? It's ridiculous!The Amazon Basics pre-charged AAA's are probably LSD also, can stuff them into all my remotes as they use AAA's and it should keep them going for years before I need to charge. Plus $15 for 12-pack isn't bad I think. The Panasonic charger + 4 eneloop AAA's was $40, so I'm better off here buying the charger separately and these Amazon basic batteries (they are both 800 mAh).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 11:39:48 pm
content: If they are pre-charged, they are LSD, that is a given.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 02:22:16 pm
content: Thanks for all the input into this thread. My last experience with rechargeables was more than a decade ago and I’m glad to see things have significantly improved. My pre-charged Duracells finally died, at least in the Sony Walkman I used them in (Tecsun shortwave still going). I popped another 2 pre-charged AA’s from the same Duracell 4-pack I bought into the Walkman and expect it to go another 30 cassettes.Based on all the advice here I decided to just get the Panasonic CC17 “set it and forget it” charger. I can just leave it overnight and the next day should be ready. I don’t need speed, I have enough batteries to swap. I also picked up the Amazon-branded pre-charged AAA’s.Since all these new batteries are LSD, I can just charge them up and keep them in my drawer ready to use. Gone are the days when I had to charge batteries up just before I need them… or keep them always in the charger, knowing that they start losing their charge quickly the minute I remove them from the charger. That was I think the biggest frustration with my old Energizer batteries. Since I needed to charge them in pairs because of the charger it came with, if I charged all 4 then by the time the first pair died the second pair was already half depleted. I’d have to anticipate when the pair I was using was about to die and get the second pair charged up the night before. So I never had a nice fully charged pair available and if I kept it in the charger topped up all the time it would eventually kill them.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 05:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 16, 2022, 02:22:16 pmThat's what I've been doing for more than a decade. There's a tray in the desk drawer that charged batteries go into and a charger on the desk. Whenever something needs new batteries I pop the old ones in the charger and grab some fresh ones out of the drawer.