PoundWorld in UK selling fake USB power supplies (dangerous) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 09:27:10 pm
content: Picked up a 5V, 1A power supply for a quid -- what can you expect for a quid I guess. On the back I saw "Emerson Network Power", so I assumed that they would be the real deal, perhaps excess stock or returned items etc.But at least, from a reputable retailer, with 180 stores you'd expect them to make sure...oh, wait.Anyway, here's the results. I used a resistive load as that's all I had to do a quick test.0.001A: 5.41V (above nominal... uh oh, is this... please don't be...) ripple <200mVp-p @ 9kHz0.371A: 5.1V (not bad) ripple ~500mVp-p @ 30kHz0.581A: 4.2V (oh dear...) ripple ~400mVp-p @ 40kHz + 100mVp-p 100Hz component0.623A: 3.1V (...) ripple ~150mVp-p @ 41kHz + 100mVp-p 100Hz componentAs soon as I saw 5.4V at no load I think this is a cheap unregulated supply as that's what they normally start out at.I could try pulling more, but I'd need a greater load; this experiment shows the device cannot provide rated current.The cable adds around 0.7 ohms resistance but wouldn't cause this much loss.For giggles, I will try a genuine 5V, 1A supply later.Teardown coming soon. Claims, both on packaging and on device, to be CE Cert, Safety Mark and V-class efficiency. I think "Made in China" is the only true thing.The ripple it produces causes problems with my scope. A genuine Apple adapter does much better.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:20:54 pm
content: Teardown. I chose destructive entry.There is no input fuse at all.The filter inductor on the input has been deemed too expensive; instead, the designers have elected to draw the fundamental model of an inductor on the board. I predict this has an inductance around 10nH at best, which makes it more or less completely pointless. I suppose this could act as an input fuse, but I wouldn't expect it to work well.The mains input wires touch the USB shielding directly, meaning any break or failure in those wires could easily energise the output with 230V.Approx 2mm between live and output on PCB. Cheap PCB type, can't remember the name but it's that awful stuff you see in cheap crap.The earth pin, while metal, is not connected. This is forbidden by BS 1363, as the device is not earthed, which is OK on its own, but such a device must use a plastic ISOD (insulated shutter opening device.)Conventional 10n/1kV ceramic disc between USB earth and 230V mains. If this capacitor were to fail shorted, common with ceramics (it's not a class Y) the output would be connected to 230V. This would also fail a typical isolation test (~3kV?)It's just a 2-transistor oscillator as expected but doesn't even use an NMOS... a 13002 instead in TO92 with maybe 0.5mm between 320V DC and ground. Yummy. No regulation circuit, as expected.The capacitor is a 2.2uF/400V. At a typical 230V input, an approximation is to take capacitance in uF and assume it is watts to get an approximate max output: 2 watts. Above this level a typical power supply would spend more on magnetics and semiconductors than it would save on making the cap smaller, so it makes no sense to make the cap so small. So this gives a decent upper bound around 2 watts; indeed, I noticed considerable 100Hz ripple at around 2W output.I may take the transformer apart next... it's by far the smallest I have ever seen... surely it cannot have much insulation between live and output. As if this PSU needs any more failures.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 04, 2013, 10:20:54 pmWe've seen this before. Anyone know why they would bother doing that? That is truly bizarre.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:57:38 pm
content: The only other suggestion is perhaps it's a vain attempt at making a fuse with a PCB trace?

author: fluxcapacitor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:58:32 pm
content: These fake chargers are all over the country.For poundland to be selling them is a scandal.Some poor kid this year is going to get injured or killed.I`m going to check my local pound store and if i find anything i`ll get straight onto trading standards .http://suffolktradingstandards.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/voluntary-recall-power-adaptor-usb-charger/http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.htmlhttp://www.sandwell.gov.uk/news/article/2076/dangerous_mobile_phone_chargershttp://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Phone-charger-blow-leads-Derby-trading-standards/story-16819722-detail/story.html

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 10:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 04, 2013, 10:20:54 pmI think the wiggly track is the fuse...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:03:53 pm
content: Being sold by Poundworld, a separate chain from Poundland, but still they have over 180 stores so it's not like it's some odd corner shop. They should know a lot better.This was purchased from Poundworld in Kirkstall, on Kirkstall Road, Leeds.Imported by: ITP IMPORTS WF6 1TN. Probably an overnight jobby that will disappear once there's any sniff of an investigation. (Edit: WF6 1TN is also the post code used by Poundworld, which would be an awful coincidence. I wonder if they've set up some kind of sacrificial company to try to protect themselves, a "phantom brand".)Packaging for identification:http://imgur.com/qFiFzBl,nu7q1SU,MiTdFds

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:04:52 pm
content: Creepage distance, what creepage distance..?

author: fluxcapacitor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:08:44 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 04, 2013, 11:03:53 pmThe linkedin profile for ITP Imports ...http://www.linkedin.com/company/itp-imports-ltd" ITP Imports was initially formed by Poundworld to import products from China, India and other export countries, for its own retail shops. However over time the demand for the products by other independent traders and small retailers resulted in the launch of its online wholesale website in May 2012 -www.discount-wholesale.co.uk"

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:13:47 pm
content: I can't find any reference to this charger or H-28519 (product code) on their website but I did find their 12V iPhone chargers. Maybe they pulled them and this is excess stock, thanks for the recall notice, not.I am going to do a review on those 12V adapters at some point. I've torn one down already (there's no input protection at all); I'm just trying to think of a way of building a device to give it a 60V load transient (and -20V transient, which are both specified in various standards to be expected at the cig lighter socket) to see what the output does. (I'd expect it to go dead short frying any i-Device attached to it.) At least they won't kill you... but anyone who plugs a £350 iPhone into a £1 12V adapter is an idiot.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:33:04 pm
content: Tore the transformer apart. The thicker wire is allegedly the 1 amp output secondary. The inner wire is the two primary coils, one is for the 2-transistor oscillator. There is a single layer of insulating tape between the primary and secondary, approx 0.5mm thick. This is insane. microSD for scale.http://imgur.com/88A4iOE,sQPaiBr,gGxjPBQ#0

author: sonic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:37:10 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 04, 2013, 10:20:54 pmI know it under the namePertinax. Parts of the coachwork of east German vehicle brand Trabant were made of a material similar (cotton instead of paper fibres) to this

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 05:47:42 am
content: This is just a step above a completely unregulated SMPS, built to the lowest cost. I've heard that OEMs in China will make a PSU to whatever cost you want, and the more you pay the more components and isolation distances you get! Looks like whoever commissioned this one decided to go for the cheapest they could. But to put this risk into perspective, I'm almost willing to bet that you're more likely to die in a vehicle accident driving to the store to buy one than get electrocuted...

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 12:51:57 pm
content: Interesting part number on it "A 1299", thats the same as the Apple charger part number for their 5W USB charger.......looking at one I have here, the markings are identical to the Apple charger bar the one you have says "Madel Number" and the Apple one says "Model Number".One for Trading Standards?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 01:23:58 pm
content: I compared to a genuine Apple charger my friend purchased. The genuine weighs 43 g and has everything including "Designed by Apple in California". The fake only omits that tagline and weighs 27 g.What's the best way to get the attention of trading standards?

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 01:35:32 pm
content: Google will find your local trading standards office, give them a call. Generally they will, if interested, make a test purchase and get the item tested. They could also ask for a copy of the CE technical file from the supplier/importer to prove the mark is valid (suspect it isn't).As they are not being sold as Apple branded products they may not be that interested, but there have been some headline stories of people being killed by such things overseas, so the safety aspect when combined with the markings should get them interested. After all, if you picked one of those up, I bet it would hard to tell it apart from an Apple charger without reading the small print.

author: edocronian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 06:56:56 pm
content: Hello everyone.This is from the charger from a Clas Ohlson LED lamp we have in work. The enclosure got knocked off by a hard drop and revealed this:http://imgur.com/a/PwndOLabel says: 12v, 500ma. Don't have a reading and I'm loathe to plug this back in...Garbage? Not Garbage?Thanks

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 07:11:56 pm
content: Not Garbage. It's just a transformer and rectifier, what's wrong with it? Isolation is fine, the mains winding is on a completely separate section of the bobbin. It's unregulated, but that seems to be enough for them. The capacitor is poo, but it's not under heavy switching current so it will probably last anyway.The connection to the pins looks a bit dodgy. Might not pass regulations - I don't know what yours are like - but it's only really afoul of the parts that don't matter as much. Tape over the backs of them if you like.

author: edocronian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 07:21:35 pm
content: Its charging 6 1.2v (I guess) NiCads.Cheers for the expert opinion(edit: only thing wrong is it broke open)

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 07:26:53 pm
content: Junk. Can't see the rating on the capacitor. No fuse on the input.The ground lug goes nowhere. It is sitting there in the case.Don't know what the open circuit voltage is.It is a piece of junk.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 07:31:15 pm
content: Because the capacitor is small (470uF, if I'm reading correctly), the ripple will be severe at 500mA (about 0.5A/(100Hz*470uF) = 10Vpp, though that equation is simplified and tends not to work too well for large ripples). My guess is that the voltage is a bit high unloaded, averaging about 12V under load. You may want to replace that with a much larger capacitor (4700uF or so).Quote from: JoeO on December 05, 2013, 07:26:53 pmThe rating on the capacitor is 25V. Open circuit voltage is probably 16-18V. It doesn't need a ground connection - what would they even connect it to? It probably ought to have a fuse, but most of these little adapters won't deliver any real current short circuit anyway.Perhaps add a fuse as well as upgrading the cap.It's pretty much just a transformer in a box, and I don't see anything wrong with the transformer.

author: edocronian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 07:43:31 pm
content: Cap marking is JNC 470uF 25vDiodes marked IN440007 (ish)And no fuse makes me nervous.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 07:51:19 pm
content: There is a thermal fue in the transformer though, which does work. just had one die this week, so now I will have to look for a replacement charger for the cheap junky cordless driver, or toss it as a bad job. A lot better than the switchers, as these actually do have a fuse and tend to fail safe. Regulation on them is rather optimistic, and the lamps use the very high regulation of the transformer ( otherwise known as way to small wire for the job and an undersized core that is close to fully saturated) to do charge limiting, but they do kill batteries if you leave them on charge for long periods. Then again the cells used are the cheapest so are not terribly good anyway.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 01:40:15 am
content: Sorry to hear about that, that sounds terrible!The 0845 number pisses me off, but there is probably a local rate number available at saynoto0870.Still, I think if it is just reported to Citizen's Advice Bureau it will be ignored or filed away only to be considered in 1 year's time.Surely there is some direct contact to the office? Perhaps they are understaffed.Maybe a more dramatic test is needed... involving high voltage isolation testing... to show what a danger these are. Anyone with a Megger willing to test one of these? I can post one to UK.n

author: urbis
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 02:33:28 pm
content: I'm really not surprised by this, Poundworld (Normanton based) have been selling unauthorised Lightning to USB cables for a long time.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 06:06:09 pm
content: I'm not bothered by an unauthorised cables, as long as they (a) work acceptably, and (b) don't pose a safety hazard. For example their £1 HDMI (1m long) works well, up to 1080p 3D, if only being a little short.

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 10:45:31 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 05, 2013, 01:23:58 pmThe news-media perhaps?(Here they tend lunge after potential blood-n-gore stuff like people getting fried, and houses full of kids burning down in the middle of the night, etc. Anything "Shock and OW!" so...)

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 11:26:15 pm
content: I think though that a teardown by hammer isn't enough. I need to actually demonstrate how dangerous these are, for example by showing that they do not have sufficient isolation (which would inevitably require an explosion, fire, or electrocution of hotdog.) Unfortunately I can't really do any of those, as I don't have the equipment sufficient to simulate an overload.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2013, 10:22:27 am
content: Do you have (or know) anyone with a PAT tester? If you do then they should be able to do the first tests which would include an insulation resistance test. If they have a slightly more expensive one it would probably have a flash tester built in.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2013, 12:25:28 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 06, 2013, 11:26:15 pmI would like to see a test as much as anyone else but the important thing is that this has to be arealistictest. You can get exciting fireworks out of anything with enough energy (Photonicinduction style) but that means little for real-world scenarios. Maybe you could send one to this guy:http://lygte-info.dk/info/usbPowerSupplyTestHow%20UK.htmlNote that the isolation withstand voltage required is 2.5kV.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 02:09:29 am
content: Yeah that's the unfortunate thing, realistic != exciting. I imagine a real insulation breakdown is arc-pop-done (as the RCD trips.) In that time you've had a nice shock, but how to safely show that?Interestng that sometimes they blow up on their own; it did end up in some paper:-http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Phone-charger-blow-leads-Derby-trading-standards/story-16819722-detail/story.html

author: Christopher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 03:53:20 pm
content: I have access to a high-voltage insulation tester at work. Looked in my local Poundland and pound shops and couldn't find these but ended up spending £10 on junky crap that will probably break in 2 weeks.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 07:08:22 pm
content: @Christopher: if you can take a video of the test I will post you a couple to blow up, just PM your address.

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 09:02:00 pm
content: Well, this doesn't surprise me at all for Poundworld. Though I have to confess, the little polypropylene snap-lid food boxes they sell are nice and about the right size for a few hundred millilitres of Tinnit and a small PCB.I ripped apart a similar power supply on a Livestream a few weeks ago -- invited a few folks on Twitter to join in. Upon seeing the inside of the thing I temporarily lost the ability to form a coherent sentence, then proceeded to rip the thing apart. Turns out the transformers are very easily disassembled, unwound and reused for other (lower voltage!) things.I'll see if I can find the photos if there's any interest?

author: urbis
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 09:29:28 pm
content: I have to wonder though, the price these are really costing.To get a retail price at less than a quid (taking VAT into account), and their own label packaging (not cheap!), these must have been purchased in the millions to be able to turn the slightest of profit?Obviously, safety comes at a cost in this case.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2013, 05:32:04 am
content: Quote from: urbis on December 08, 2013, 09:29:28 pmProduction cost is probably less than 10p(!)You can get oneswith much better creepage distancefor not much more... the one linked there is about 30p

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 06:59:21 pm
content: Looks like Aldi have been caught out too:http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/advice-recall-item.cfm?id=307108QuoteGoing by the photo on the TSI website, it's a USB octopus cable (USB-A on one end, various charging plugs on the other), a mains power adapter and a car cigarette-lighter power adapter. The mains adapter looks exactly like the "A 1299" knockoff (though sadly the text isn't visible in the photo).EDIT -- And even more recalls here:http://www.esc.org.uk/public/guides-and-advice/product-recalls/Those Chinese PSUs really are pervasive... The recall reasons are similar too -- inadequate creepage and clearance distances, non-compliance with the Low Voltage Directive.EDIT2 -- What do you know, it's our little friend, the A1299, complete with "SAEETY MARK":http://www.esc.org.uk/public/guides-and-advice/product-recalls/recall/recall/3-pin-usb-power-adapter/http://www.360innovation.co.uk/RecallNotice.pdf

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 07:28:00 pm
content: Do these companies do any verification of the safety claims? Apparently not.

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 10:23:35 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 23, 2013, 07:28:00 pmYou could probably do a pretty good job of verifying the claims with nothing more than an electronic engineer (complete with Option LT: "Leatherman multi-tool"), a sound level meter and a stopwatch.Hint: you measure how loud the engineer laughs and for how long, multiply the two numbers.Both numbers are assumed to be zero if the engineer says "Wow, nice!".Both are assumed to be infinite if the engineer face-palms or says "Oh God, no...", "Dear God, no..." or words to that effect.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:39:06 am
content: Generally, they try to cover themselves by getting the supplier to produce a test certificate. When I was doing qualification work for a company, I often had the sales guy say that all I had to do was sign the Declaration of Conformity, as the supplier had a test cert form a "test house".At minimum, I opened one up and had a good measure of safety distances then took a second and did the safety type test (a flash test at a much higher voltage than normal production flash tests).There were quite a number that failed, even with the test house "pass". The real clincher is how many of these refused to actually give us test reports on what they had supposedly tested.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:20:31 am
content: I had the exact same PSU shipped with a Samsung Digital Camera sent by Zavvi! The camera box said "For Latin America" which I thought was odd, then I saw an Apple charger inside! It didn't look quite right so I busted it open, fake as hell, and my AC wires were much thinner, no separation from Primary/Secondary on the PCB, very dangerous device! If 1 component goes S/C then 5v would be LIVE, no protection at all.I kicked right off about it, this was an eBay special Zavvi had running earlier this year, LOTS got sold. My negative feeback got removed because I had a refund?It's shocking how these really dangerous SMPS PSU's get sold, I have had loads of fake laptop chargers in my possession, even external hard drives get bundled with them, I might do a tear down of a few junk ones I have, one here outputs 230v~ on the DC output when not under load!Best I have come across are genuine Delta or FSP

author: philpem
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:32:13 am
content: Quote from: TheBay on December 26, 2013, 12:20:31 amGiven their recent behaviour, I'd seriously question the ethics of the company which currently owns the Zavvi brand (The Hut Group Ltd). They accidentally sent out a bunch of games consoles instead of games, then threatened the recipients with legal action... The story hit the front page of at least one newspaper I saw, and was quite highly placed on BBC News for some time.EDIT add citations:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25330615http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-12-10-zavvi-threatens-customers-with-legal-action-after-accidentally-sending-free-vitasBut this is getting off topic.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:37:08 am
content: Here is an interesting test for anyone here. Possibly worldwide or UK, go to any Apple store or find an official Apple stand in say Currys or Pc World. Rub the back of your hand or wrist on a nice macbook, back of Ipad etc. Feel a nice tingleThen hold something earthed and do it Lol.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on December 26, 2013, 12:37:08 amLook up IEC 60990. IIRC up to 100uA is allowed, and some people can definitely feel that.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:07:17 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on December 26, 2013, 12:37:08 amYes, I think I've mentioned it here before that my iPhone sets off non-contact voltage detectors as vigorously as the live wire in the mains. I just wave the detector near the phone or the USB lead and it beeps and flashes like crazy.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:45:12 am
content: Agreed, but it's pretty bad show for a display of "Premium" products.Quote from: amyk on December 26, 2013, 12:48:55 pm

author: urbis
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 09:50:46 pm
content: Saw plenty of these today, so picked one up.I have no use for the one I bought, but I'm hoping I can get it into the hands of someone who can do a destruction/safety test which we can then bring to the attention of PoundWorld.Images of the item:Not sure how clear these are:It does have the "SAEETY" mark though, so it must be SAFE.

author: urbis
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 09:52:04 pm
content: What I did mean to add, was that if someone can do a destruction test on this, please PM me and I'll get this, and a couple more if needed to you.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 10:47:33 am
content: Quote from: urbis on December 27, 2013, 09:50:46 pmNo, it must be SAEE.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 11:54:14 am
content: My local PoundWorld didn't have any when I went in yesterday, will try today/tomorrow in case it's just a temporary stock gap.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 12:05:40 pm
content: So, my previous suspicion of these adapters being ex-stock from Discount Wholesale etc was wrong... they are actually directly selling them now to retailers. Unit price £0.75 each! Crazy!http://www.discount-wholesale.co.uk/buy/iphone-usb-to-socket-wall-charger_505333.htm

author: urbis
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:40:07 pm
content: I can send you one if you can't get hold of one.I did email Poundworld, but never received a response.