Flir E40 doesn't turn on - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 09:10:58 am
content: Flir E40 (E64501) when I press power button shows Flir logo on the screen and nothing else happens. I connected the imager to a computer via USB no response. It looks like that something wrong with NAND.Is there and buttons combination to get in service mode? Any idea how to fix it?

author: railrun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 02:22:20 pm
content: Hi,the only hidden function I've found yet is: plug an empty USB-Stick in the host port. Before powering up press and keep pressed the left cursor-button. Then press the power-button and wait a few seconds. The camera will create a file named "FLIRVers.rsc". For comparison I've attached my file.Hope this helps a littlebit.Edit: You couln't power the camera down, you have to remove the battery afterwards

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 03:38:54 pm
content: I tried to play with the USB stick - no result. The camera does the same as without the stick - logo on the screen. By the way if I turn it on with the power button and hold it then the camera will turn off in 15-20 seconds.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 07:42:16 pm
content: You probably already did, but did you remove the battery for at least 20 seconds to completely power it down? Did the problem start suddenly, or after trying to upgrade the flir?

author: railrun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 09:05:38 am
content: What have you done before? Firmware-update?Have you tried to boot the camera without the SD-card?

author: kosomsk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 12:48:31 pm
content: Hi! Are you bought cam in this condition?

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 04:09:11 pm
content: Yes, I tried everything mentioned above. Yes, the camera came to me in that condition. I know nothing about its past.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 05:59:01 am
content: Do you have Flir Tools drivers installed?

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 06:04:30 am
content: No, I did not install drivers. There is no need to do that. The camera is not seen by a computer. I tried it under MS Windows as well as under Ubuntu.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 08:23:54 am
content: What contents is currently on the SD card?I do not know if this is possible, but can a firmware update be loaded via the SD card?Does the camera write anything to the SD card when trying to boot?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 12:32:57 pm
content: There is a ‘RS232’ Low voltage type engineering port on the cameras PCB that provides boot progress reports. Regret I cannot tell you where it is. The port will be either 0V and +3.3V or 0V and +5.0V with Soft handshaking.Fraser

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 04:00:38 pm
content: Quote from: thetan76 on June 01, 2020, 06:04:30 amInstall the drivers and check if FlirInstallNet can see the camera (do not power on the camera). If it does you may have a way to connect to it and do some checks.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 09:02:14 am
content: Well, I installed the Flir Tools and the driver. Tried FlirInstallNet. The camera does not response anyway.SD card is empty and the camera does not record anything to it.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 09:19:37 am
content: Here are pictures of both boards.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 09:20:34 am
content: Other side.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 09:49:19 am
content: I have managed to get a reply from the camera. If I hold a button on the main board and turn on the camera the computer finds a new device SLCOL. It is attached as a disk D of 23.9 Mbs. There are two txt files on the disk - ERROR and TYPEINFO.TYPEINFO contains the folloing:FLIR cam bootMSDcmd 1.2SLCOLT198468-01 #20043213T198538-01 #6450190500:40:7F:0B:65:A1ERROR contains:No errorsHow can I program the main board?

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 12:13:45 pm
content: I found out another keys combination. If I hold joystick down and turn the camera on the computer finds FLIR Camera Network Device.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 12:43:16 pm
content: That sounds hopeful.If you can enter the assigned IP address into FileZilla you may be able to access the cameras operating system files. This is the same method as used to edit camera files during some upgrades.Fraser

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 01:02:28 pm
content: Could you give the link for the method, please.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 01:26:14 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e40-upgrade-configuration/

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 01:59:27 pm
content: This is where you need Flir drivers.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 02:09:36 pm
content: Certainly I installed the drivers. The camera always connects with different IP adresses.I tried to get into it with FTP and the login: flir psswrd: 3vlig do not work. Are there any ways to reset the login/password?

author: railrun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 02:33:08 pm
content: Have you tried as anonymous user?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 04:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: thetan76 on June 02, 2020, 02:09:36 pmThen your drivers may not work correctly. If they do not assign 192.168.0.2 then i'd say troubleshoot until they do. One recommendation i always give is use WinXP. It always work correctly with the drivers, not like Win7 and stuff.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 04:34:13 pm
content: +1 for using WinXP

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 06:24:41 am
content: Thank you guys. I got a Win XP computer - it was absolutely the same result. I tried to write IP adress 192.168.0.2 manualy - no luck. It seems that the camera has some other address and that id the reason why I cannot connect. Do you have any other ideas?

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 07:12:43 am
content: I get the following in Ubuntu with dmesg command:[ 784.810781] usb 3-3: new high-speed USB device number 4 using xhci_hcd[ 784.959424] usb 3-3: New USB device found, idVendor=09cb, idProduct=1002[ 784.959428] usb 3-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0[ 784.959431] usb 3-3: Product: FLIR IR Camera[ 784.959433] usb 3-3: Manufacturer: FLIR Systems[ 784.986551] usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_ether[ 785.009896] rndis_host 3-3:1.0: RNDIS_MSG_QUERY(0x00010202) failed, -47[ 785.022164] rndis_host 3-3:1.0 eth0: register 'rndis_host' at usb-0000:00:14.0-3, RNDIS device, 00:40:7f:0b:65:a1[ 785.022229] usbcore: registered new interface driver rndis_host[ 785.026140] usbcore: registered new interface driver rndis_wlan[ 785.045358] rndis_host 3-3:1.0 enx00407f0b65a1: renamed from eth0[ 785.074184] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): enx00407f0b65a1: link is not ready

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 01:25:48 pm
content: What that ip address is and what error message do you get? Or your connection attempt just times out?

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 07:02:04 am
content: IP address is 192.168.0.2.I get a message from the driver that the camera was connected 192.168.0.2 then right away is says that it is waiting for connect 192.168.0.2. The "ping" command does not get a reply from the camera. If I disconnect and reconnect USB cable I get a message that the USB device was not recognized.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 04:58:10 pm
content: After the drivers gives you those messages run FlirInstallNet and check the dropdown box if the camera was found. Do all this with the camera powered off.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 07:14:31 am
content: I did try to connect the camera without turning it on - it did not work. The computer cannot see the camera and the power consumption is zero unless I press the arrow down and power buttons simultaneously. Running FlirInstallNet does not change a thing - no camera found.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 11:36:19 am
content: You need to track down the ‘RS232’ serial engineering port and see what its says during attempted boot. Without that, you are working blind.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 11:55:45 am
content: Look at Mike’s FLIR E4 teardown video at time index 42 minutes onwards. It shows what commonly appears on the serial engineering port during boot. The E40 will be different but This will give you an idea of what to expect.https://youtu.be/NtqUE67BUDIFraser

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 12:38:15 pm
content: Thanks. Yes, it would be great to connect to RS232 but I have no idea which connector and what pins. Also we do not have such an advanced oscilloscope.I need a service manual in order to find the bug. I tried to find the main board for sale but failed. So I am stuck at the moment and do not know where to go next.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 12:39:00 pm
content: Whilst diagnosing the issue with the E40, remember that it is is ‘just’ a Windows CE 6 platform with some extras ‘bolted on’. It behaves the same as a Win CE embedded computer at boot. The boot loader starts, the operating system is loaded from FLASH into RAM and run. The system is configured (FPGA programmed) and sub systems checked for presence and response. Any issue during the boot process will either result in a warning on the display(if such is possible) or will be shown in the engineering port output that details the boot sequence events.If the Boot loader fails to achieve a certain level of system capability, the system will just halt without any indication of what caused the problem. A classic cause of the problem that you are seeing is corruption of the firmware through careless file transfers or deletions. The OS tries to run but cannot find the files that it needs so halts. Repairing of the file structure is then the challenge and sadly such is not easy. You cannot use an image of another cameras flash memory or another complete PCB as there is unique microbolometer calibration data within the memory.Some system files are also CRC locked to a specific camera serial number.Whilst all things are possible, sometimes it takes more money and time than an item is worth.FLIR do repair such faults in their cameras but when I last checked it cost £400 for the fixed price repair (provided the microbolometer was not faulty). That is a lot of money but sometimes cheaper than trying to repair a camera yourself. Your location may, or may not, be an issue however.Fraser

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 12:50:30 pm
content: I think you are right that the firmware is at fault. And I contacted the Flir support and the repair cost is 690 USD which is more that I am ready to spend at the moment. I plan to go to LA in a month and hope to visit the monthly electronic swap meet and look for the main board there.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:19:56 pm
content: Good luck but please remember that the microbalometer calibration is held in the same flash memory as the firmware and is specific to each microbalometer. These cameras are very reliable so sadly it is rare to find a parts donor and those that do appear tend to have corrupted firmware from failed upgrade attemptsFraser

author: railrun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:20:50 pm
content: I also have the problem when I connect my E40 it doesn't get a valid IP-address at the first try. But after a restart or testing other USB-ports I can can connect to the camera. So just retry it a few times.To find the RS232-Port you didn't need a DSO, just a DMM. You just need to find the pins with +/- 15V.For FTP-Transfer you don't need a login/passwort when you press down and power to start the camera.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:21:33 pm
content: You do have the option to sell your Non working camera for decent money as a parts donor and then buy a sensibly priced working camera. Worth considering maybe ?Fraser

author: railrun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:22:47 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on June 09, 2020, 02:21:33 pmAre you looking for a new project

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:26:05 pm
content: Railrun,Your approach is right for many equipments but I am not certain that he E40 operates at true RS232 levels. It likely operates RS232 0/5V or 0/3V3 levels and may, or may not, operate inverted logic. Unless you know different of course ? Many internal engineering ports run at logic levels and user access ports use a level converter, such as a MAX232, so that common Standard RS232 Computer ports may be connected.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:27:11 pm
content: Railrun,No, sadly not, I have way too many awaiting my attention and I already own an E40 and E40bxFraser

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:37:17 pm
content: What money could I get for the camera?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 03:56:15 pm
content: The prices of Exx series cameras vary greatly as the demand fluctuates. Sadly a non working camera will normally be significantly cheaper as there are not that many people able to repair them. All I can say is that someone who needs a better casing, better condition LCD screen, better condition Lens or specific spare parts like the side port covers, will often pay good money for even a non working camera. As an example of spare part costs, I wanted a pair of side doors for my E40bx from FLIR and was quoted $145 each plus shipping and taxes ! And that was trade rates ! FLIR spare parts are hard to obtain and very expensive. Sometimes a faulty camera is worth more as parts than it is as a complete, but non working, camera. Your best chance of achieving the highest return on the unit is to place it on eBay with a sensible start price to avoid it selling too cheaply. You can always lower the price later of allow offers on it so that people can discuss the price.The price of working Exx series cameras appears to have increased considerably since I bought mine. Some potential buyers may fancy their chances of buying a faulty unit relatively cheaply in the hope of repairing it. That is what I used to do and I only failed to repair such a purchase on a very small number of occasions so it worked for meIf the camera came with accessories like the charger, additional batteries, desk charging dock or additional lenses, there is more money to be made from their sale.Much depends upon how much money you have invested in the camera.Fraser

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 04:15:15 pm
content: Pinout for the camera internal connector is in the E4 teardown thread several pages in. You'd need to methodically go through Mikeselectricstuff posts from the beginning.

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 12:09:11 pm
content: I sopped the struggle and shipped the camera to the service - they promised to fix the board for 300 USD. And then I am going to sell it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 12:14:44 pm
content: Sounds like a good resultSo FLIR lowered their service price or you have gone to an ‘independent’ service provider ?Fraser

author: thetan76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 01:17:25 pm
content: No, the price for their repair of the problem was 690 but I said that I did not need the adjustment so they will fix the main board only. And I was very persuasive.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 02:18:54 pm
content: Well very good for you 👍 FLIR can be quite inflexible when it comes to service prices. They always want to include a calibration in any repair that they undertake. Hopefully you will just need the firmware reinstallation but do be prepared for additional calibration cost if FLIR find that the calibration data has been erased from the cameras flash memory. Hopefully this will not be the case though.I am very pleased that you have managed to get your unit repaired at a relatively low cost compared to what it could have been 👍Fraser