Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 10:37:12 pm
content: Here is the article, i believe you can find some info in English sites.https://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/clanak/otkriveno-cemu-zapravo-sluzi-misteriozni-americki-uredaj-koji-je-u-mrezu-ulovio-hrvatski-ribar-kod-mljeta-foto-20200117Basicaly a fisherman fished out the device and returned it bit later.https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/01/12/mystery-underwater-device-lost-by-us-navy/#7d120c7d6830I'm wondering if you know for any other similar stories, accidental discoveries of army equipment or so?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 10:56:33 pm
content: Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 11:01Origin Service Area: KENNER, LA - STENNIS SPACE CENTER - USADestination Service Area: ZAGREB - OPATIJA - CROATIAhttps://www.dhl.com/en/express/tracking.html?AWB=2963707526&brand=DHLhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Stennis_Space_Center

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 10:58:13 pm
content: Ha ha

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 11:03:07 pm
content: This guys sit in the Stennis Space Center too:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Data_Buoy_CenterQuoteThus the NDBC shipped a research buoy to Croatia, the Croatia Oceanic Weather guys threw the buoy into the Adriatic sea, and the fisherman has got it

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 11:22:45 pm
content: The portal which published the story "morski.hr" had huge hacker attacks and didn't work properly for 24 hours.https://morski.hr/2020/01/11/morski-hr-bio-meta-masovnog-hakerskog-napada-iz-sjeverne-amerike/: )The Croatian fisherman was asking for covering expenses and obviously they were bit confused. After a while, he got his money and they got the device back.https://www.24sata.hr/news/vratio-sam-im-uredaj-oni-su-mislili-da-sam-somalski-pirat-669499They first tried to offer "a promise" but the fisherman was insisting, first money. I think that the return was 20.000 HRK which is about 3000$. It's about 3-4 months average salary in Croatia.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 11:34:08 pm
content: Money for what? I would charge the fisherman with $10k fine for damaging the state property

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 11:43:38 pm
content: Quote from: imo on January 17, 2020, 11:34:08 pmPeople in this region don't fail for promises and i'm pretty sure that if he accepted the promise that he would never see the money so, he was determined first to get money.The 20k of HRK was probably pretty fair price, if he asked for some huge expenses, i'm sure that they would have find the way to take it from him some other way. This countries are not in a position to negotiate and stand by their men and this exploration was actually fully supported and approved by Croatian government.Strange thing is that some Croatian captains was negotiation on behalf of American crew.

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 01:52:39 am
content: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51130644

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 09:01:47 am
content: Quote from: eliocor on January 18, 2020, 01:52:39 amLoooolIf I remember correctly, @eevblog Dave was making some of underwater ocean exploring equipment. Maybe he has some idea about those things?

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:44:49 am
content: Here in Germany one underwater observatory got missing in action last summer. They're really puzzled how that could happen. As it was fixed to the ground, very heavy (520 and 220 kg) and the area is a not allowed for ships. The cables were forcefully ripped off. So if you happen to find it on your local beach or pond they probably would be very happy to get it back ;-)I don't think it has shipping labels attached, so that might complicate things.Unfortunately the article is only in German, but the pictures show the cable and parts(!) of the station:https://www.geomar.de/news/article/unterwasserobservatorium-bei-boknis-eck-verschwunden/

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:58:57 am
content: The trash dumpersneed to pay out that fisherman handsomelyand ASAP to make the story 'go away..'What kind of lowlifes dump stuff like that in the sea, when it can be scrapped professionally back on shore,and supervised and documented/filmed as well if it's a 'security risk' or 'classified'BSWhat 'security' or 'secrecy is there at the bottom of the sea in 2020 ?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:22:47 am
content: Quote from: Twoflower on January 18, 2020, 10:44:49 amThe more the media will write about it (and most notably about the $$$ related) the more fishermen will try to fish the stuff out of sea..

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:41:55 am
content: Probably measuring temperature, current, salinity, dissolved oxygen etc, nothing secret.EDIT: No evidence of a bubble camera to measure tiny bubbles caused by submarime propeller cavitation and where is the external instrumentation to listen cables.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 12:26:24 pm
content: There is a very good scientific use for these EARS units and it, of course, has significant military uses as well. Submarine hunting is still very much alive and the Russians regularly test NATO’s detection systems and protocols. It is a game of ‘cat & mouse’ that is normally carried out in the spirit of a game. Just like airborne sorties that take place to test and annoyThe EARS buoy is an acoustic data collection unit that records the acoustic signature of the area in which it is deployed. That data provides a baseline for detecting sounds that are unusual, such as propeller or other propulsion induced noises coming from man ,ade systems operating at depth. Counter incursion, detection and identification technology basically. The unit is designed to operate over a long period of time to log the acoustic signature of the area and is recovered by its owners at the end of its assignment. It is then downloaded and the data analysed. It does not send its information to the surface in real time and is not part of a defence network, hence it is unclassified and well documented. Those scientists with an interest in Whale sounds and song have been able to extract such scientific data from the recordings of these EARS units. With the data they learn more about the Whales communications etc.This is a piece of science equipment with a good purpose. It operates at great depths far away from most human activity but occasionally a fisherman catches one. No great drama and truthfully not much of a story.If you want scary..... consider this..... trawlers have actually ‘caught’ submarines in their nets.... there is often no time for a Mayday call and the vessel is quickly pulled under the surface. Trawlers are known to just disappear without reason and this is one cause.http://www.ladcgemm.org/research-2/Some more trivia ..... if you were in a military submarine and in a state of war, consider this......As you pass into enemy territory there is submarine detection technology that is both passive and active in operation. There are ‘listening posts’ all over the World listening for specific acoustic signatures in the sea. There are fixed sonobuoys operational in the seas that also listen for acoustic signals of interest. They pass detection data back to their controllers in real time. If a ‘target’ is detected the ‘hunter killer’ teams launch a search. They deploy multiple sonobuoys, both active and passive types in a specific pattern that searches for the target and passes real time data back to the surface ships, hunter killer submarines and airborne submarine killers. A detection and location network is formed with significant processing and killing power. If the submarine is detected by these sophisticated systems its only chance is to defend itself using weaponry or it may attempt to ‘go silent’ at great depth. Most modern submarines are equipped with sub-surface missile and torpedo systems to attack sea borne and air borne vessels. Make no mistake, hunting a modern submarine is challenging and very dangerous as the submarine is not going to sit and wait to be attacked first. Imagine being in that submarine though.... you know that an acoustic ‘net’ has been deployed as the submarines passive sonar has heard the distinctive ‘plop, plop, plop, of parachute dropped hunter sonobuoys being deployed around your location. You do not know whether the hunter can ‘see’ you with them. These modern hunter sonobuoys are very sophisticated and can identify known target signatures and sounds that are suspicious. They can operate in a matrix comparing their detected anomalies to triangulate target position and likely type. There could be the horrific ‘splash’ sound of a very sophisticated helicopter launched anti-submarine seeker torpedo on the submarines passive sonar, followed by the whine of its turbine as it powers itself towards you using both the location data uploaded to its nav system by the host helicopter and its own on-board seeker systems that can also take real time data from the sonobuoys..... will it hit, or miss ? Submariners work in tin coffins...... there is no way I would wish to serve on one of them.So when people say that the EARS units are not necessary in the 21st Century, think again. If a detection system knows the natural sounds of an area of sea and the submarine hunters extract that information from a search area when hunting a target, the target can lose its ‘cloak of invisibility’ provided by its rubber coated hull and low noise, low cavitation propulsionFraserEdit: this is all unclassified information freely available on the internet and shown to the Public at the Portsmouth Royal Navy Museum and Docks. It is basic acoustics and physics in action and avoiding detection from basic physics based systems can be challenging. If this is what the Military freely release to the public you can be sure that the more sophisticated armed forces of the World have secret submarine detection systems of which we know little, or nothing

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 01:01:59 pm
content: https://asa.scitation.org/doi/10.1121/1.4783966https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a30539204/ears-system-navy-microphone/Fraser

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 01:02:13 pm
content: I remember a story that US Navy and perhaps CIA lost a 1bn$ project for listening submarine communication cables in Pacific ocean when some disappointed or simply opportunistic officer gave that information to Russians.But just a quick Google search gave me impression that it's not that rare to eavesdrop underwater cableshttps://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/28/politics/russian-submarine-expansion-atlantic/index.htmlWould be nice to see @eevblog Dave teardown video of such a device

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 01:02:50 pm
content: Coincidentally, fishing is becoming rather lucrative, for some, around the coast of China....https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51130644

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 01:07:17 pm
content: There are a lot of UUV’s in the sea these days as well. Some are like sea borne versions of the Drones that patrol the skies above hot spots in the World. Long and reliable missions are possible.http://iranarze.ir/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/7477-English-IranArze.pdfFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 01:09:15 pm
content: An interesting article.....https://physicsworld.com/a/hunting-submarines-from-the-air/What this story does not cover at the end is the ever present danger, for the hunter, of a sub-surface anti-aircraft missile bursting out of the sea and heading towards them at great speed. Then they are in the hands of the aircrafts sophisticated, but not infallible countermeasures.From the submarine captains point of view, he/she does not want to advertise their presence or position, but once detected and effectively ‘backed into a corner’ by a sonobuoy net, there are few options other than to fight for survival as even modern submarines cannot outrun a hunter killer aircraft armed with task specific and effective seeking torpedoes. A case of kill or be killed and attempt to blind the hunter.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 02:17:45 pm
content: CJay,The scary thing is that limited yield battlefield nuclear weapons for use by infantry actually exist, but thankfully have never been used.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54Demonstration video......https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-the-worlds-smallest-nuk-1684923814Fraser

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 02:32:13 pm
content: The Davy Crockett (and the derived SADM) were by all accounts NOT a popular duty, something about the SADM having a 15 minute maximum on the timer and the infantry tasked with deploying the thing reckoning (probably correctly) that under combat conditions that was less then comfortable, particularly when the yield was turned up....Most of that stuff got killed off by one of the arms treaties (or at least taken and made into a properly black project, possibly more likely).There was also at least one 110mm artillery shell design with a nuke payload, and there ARE nuclear torpedo heads, for all that the effectiveness is apparently actually rather lower then you would anticipate (But much better in a near miss then a conventional weapon).Regards, Dan.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 03:23:37 pm
content: Operation Wigwam - no greedy fishermen around..PS: I would move this thread to General Chat..

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 06:31:12 pm
content: IMO,Thanks. Fascinating stuff. Love the 1950’s delivery of the commentary and office settingWatching this made me think of young children playing with fire crackers ..... scary stuff !Fraser

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 07:40:11 pm
content: That movie is one of the more "scientific" oriented, where you get some tangible technical information too.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 08:11:45 pm
content: Don’t you just love it as the presenting scientist sits and talks behind his desk and then rises to casually walk around to the front of the desk to continue his presentation .... classic stuffFraser

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 08:51:51 pm
content: Quote from: imo on January 18, 2020, 11:22:47 amand if they don't get paid for fishing out someone else's irresponsibly dumped TRASH, there's always Youtube and Patreon

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 09:02:51 pm
content: Electro Detective,What “dumped trash” are you referring to ? Scientific research equipment is usually recovered, where possible, after the mission is completed. It is too valuable to leave behind and abandonment goes against most scientists ethics regarding polluting the sea. Many deep sea scientific instruments need to be recovered fir data download anyway ! This is not like some well known cases of dumping industrial waste and obsolete sea going vessels in deep water.Fraser

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 09:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: nardev on January 17, 2020, 10:37:12 pmFairly recent.https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/georgia-amateur-divers-find-long-lost-nuclear-warhead/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 09:29:21 pm
content: Another nuclear bomb loss incident......https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37875697Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 09:38:52 pm
content: The full story of the H bomb dumped in the sea after the mid air collision incident. I am amazed that the search was not continued then and in later years to discover the bombs location. Good that it has now been recovered safely. It was in a ‘safe’ mode anyway, with no Plutonium trigger, but still not great to have it laying around !http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8107908.stmFraser

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 09:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 18, 2020, 09:02:51 pm'scientists ethics'aren't worth much if their research/data gathering money gets pulled,and or bean counting employers don't want to pay for recovery, re-deployment, and or scrapping/disposal.Dumpers of industrial waste and obsolete sea going vessels in deep water deserve public shame,and their ill gotten profits directed to cleaning up THEIR mess.They should do something useful in the short time they have left, rather than back pat themselves on saving a buck by dumping,passing that lousy buck to future generations to carry.I'm certain there's a special department in Hell for these types when they cash out,a heated petition form concerned people can fill out would be handy, to ensure they get what's coming,and handball it to the appropriate messenger clerk

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:12:10 pm
content: As an ex Maritime Radio Officer I can assure you that you need to be very confident that you will not get caught dumping junk in the Worlds Seas. Some countries apply stiffer penalties than others but many cruise ships have been fined enormous sums of money for dumping waste at sea, including raw sewage that is biodegradeable.https://www.epa.gov/ocean-dumping/learn-about-ocean-dumpingAttitudes have improved towards the sea and its pollution, but there is a very long way to go. As a lover of the sea, I understand your anger with people dumping their unwanted rubbish in it.https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2019/06/11/carnival-cruise-to-pay-20-million-after-admitting-to-dumping-plastic-waste-in-the-bahamas/https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/jul/22/janemartinsonhttps://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/02/the-40m-magic-pipe-princess-cruises-given-record-fine-for-dumping-oil-at-seahttps://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/9226261/carnival-cruise-dumping-waste-guilty-fine/https://www.ybw.com/news-from-yachting-boating-world/princess-cruise-lines-fined-record-amount-for-dumping-at-sea-45199China regulations....http://www.asianlii.org/cn/legis/cen/laws/rocodowito564/Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:15:55 pm
content: The UN view on dumping ANYTHING at sea.......https://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part1.htmFraser

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:20:47 pm
content: Electro Detective: You should really get things into perspective. The total amount of stuff dumped* and left in the ocean by scientists is absolutely negligible when compared to a single dump of crap by some shoddy business. Scientific gear generally serves a noble and important purpose. You are essentially conflating a people who 'dump'* a few tens of kgs per year with the express intent of understanding how things work and in the process doing vital research with people who don't give a shit about anything aside from a quick buck and don't mind dumping a few tons daily.I'm fully onboard with shaming and jailing dumpers of industrial waste and all sorts of polluters, but I don't think that scientific monitoring equipment falls into this category.QuoteWhile I do not doubt that there are people like that in the scientific community, I'd say that it's a small percentage.* - when it's not recovered.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:29:33 pm
content: Trawlers that operate in some parts of the World that had sea mines, parachute mines or dumped ordnance left over (effectively dumped) after past conflicts are exposed to the very real risk of ‘catching’ an in exploded mine or other explosive deviceThe mines are of varying ages and can be still functional and highly sensitive. This could be another cause of trawlers just ‘disappearing’ without a Mayday or survivors as the mines contain a large amount of explosive and fragmentation metal.https://www.forces.net/news/german-wartime-parachute-mine-caught-fishing-boathttps://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/skipper-describes-nervy-moment-pulled-2450283Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 10:40:32 pm
content: As this is posted in the General computing section of the forum (it may get moved to ‘General’) I thought this story appropriate regarding lost technology and the weird way that it was found again !A USB memory stick was found in a Scat sample from a Leopard Seal by Scientists !https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47135528Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:05:30 pm
content: Garfield phone mystery from the 1980’s partially solved in 2019As can be seen, lost containers at sea likely cause more pollution than the odd lost scientific platform on the sea bedhttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/garfield-phones-mystery-devices-washing-up-on-beaches-france/Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:11:50 pm
content: Some lost technology gets reunited with its owners against all odds !https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/lost-camera-wash-up-taiwan-japan-park-lee-facebook-a8281721.htmlFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:19:30 pm
content: 2018.... lost science equipment containing important geological movement data from the sea bed. 25 responded to ‘come home’ signal, 5 did not. Possible equipment failure or maybe lost to trawler activities ?https://sunlive.co.nz/news/231184-search-on-seas-missing-science-equipment.htmlThe hunt goes on in 2020......https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/01/gns-scientists-search-for-earthquake-sensors-missing-off-east-coast-of-north-island.htmlFraser

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on January 18, 2020, 09:13:54 pmOu my

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 11:54:11 pm
content: Mini ROV recovery operation after loss....https://news.sky.com/story/deep-ocean-live-rescuers-save-mini-submarine-which-was-stranded-on-seabed-11665280Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 12:04:58 am
content: Lost ROV reappears on reef........https://www.sanpedrosun.com/environment/2015/03/25/submersible-rov-successfully-removed-from-reef/http://www.deepseanews.com/2015/03/does-this-rov-belong-to-you/Fraser

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 12:05:58 am
content: Quote from: CJay on January 18, 2020, 11:51:41 pmWell, for quite some time, some of the Russian anti aircraft or anti ballistic shield systems were actually based on small nuclear heads.The reason was that they couldn't get the precise kinetic shot to destroy attacking projectile so they made a system to make a small nuclear explosion in a proximity of target. That's how they "increased the accuracy"However, USA exploited infra red technologies to the max, some of the anti ballistic missiles that they have can hit 4 Mach moving object with a speed of almost 4 Mach withing the size of a projectile. Which is something like 70 cm or so.Anyway, what terrifies me the most is those silent, unmanned submarines with nuclear warheads that can be hiding around the costs, be very hard to detectable and stay alive for a very long time. Such things exists.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 12:13:03 am
content: I would love to find an ROV like this one washed up on the shoreSadly ‘finders keepers’ is not applicable in such casesThese things are very expensive so the owner will be pleased if they get it back.https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/204932/video-mystery-rov-washes-up-on-beach/Fraser

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 01:02:01 am
content: Let's get real, the war mongers and their well paid tech heads don't gas about cannon fodder public attitudes, much less dumping their unwanted crap in the seas.Who is is checking for compliance and who checks the checkers for compliance,and who verifies and signs off on both groups doing those tasks, in an independent unbiased manner and layperson friendly ? pleaseThey don't do shyte, most of those 'industries' have to be full of mentally unstable power puppies and 'look away' yes people to do what they do,and get away with it decade after decade.Make excuses all you like, but that is how it is, and it won't changeno matter how good the illusion of 'change' is marketed to the gullible majority that have to pay for that BS and 'like it and stfu.. or else'

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 07:45:05 pm
content: Interestingly, the paperworks is still sticking to the cube in a transparent envelope, so I can only assume it accidently fell over board. Certainly a serious scientist would remove the shipping papers before deploying it.

author: nardev
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 07:46:12 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on January 23, 2020, 07:45:05 pmThey were in a hurry or simply didn't care : )

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 07:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on January 23, 2020, 07:45:05 pmI'm more puzzled that they shipped the equipment without a shipping case. I would expect that the device has some more or less sensitive parts which could be damaged by shipping.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 08:22:59 am
content: Quote from: Twoflower on January 18, 2020, 10:44:49 amOne should be aware of the location. Eckernförde is *the* german naval testing site (plus home of some elite forces), for more than a century now. Lots of secret stuff going on there (a classmate is working there as an EE, but isn't allowed to talk, obviously...). So it wouldn't surprise me, if some foreign country were involved in this case (by accident).

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 03:11:47 pm
content: Replying to myself, there is an update to the story (in German):https://weather.com/de-DE/wissen/umwelt/news/2020-02-18-teil-von-geomar-unterwasserobservatorium-geborgen/?par=focus_web_mainIn short: They found one of the two parts only 180m away - however in 20m depth, with very little sight. They used a special purpose ship for detecting shipwrecks and ocean mapping. Assuming an illegal fishing trawler picked them up by accident...