Lanyi-Mr.Signal Multifunction Calibration Device - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: John at the Falls
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:36:44 am
content: I am a retired Avionics Tech and now a "hobbyist" currently converting my machine and welding shop to CNC. I also work with various experiments that require lots of monitoring and measurement. I also use thermocouples a lot. I just ran into one small project that brought into question the accuracy of one of my meters. I have a Fluke 16 Multimeter which has been my standard. But projects keep getting more complex and interesting and I do not want to be designing on top of research that has a bad measurement.I have a set of gage blocks for a standard in my machine shop, It seems about time to get something for my electronics workbench.These Mr. Signal multipurpose Calibrators caught my interest.I am not expecting NIST precision and accuracy, just something to keep me accurate enough from creating problems from a bad meter or thermocouple.The top of the line model has Modbus, something of which I know nothing about but I expect to run into it eventually with some of the projects I am taking on. These seem to be geared for industrial instrumentation which is the direction I am headed.The cheaper versions would suit my needs fine. Prices are from about $90 to $170 USD shipped from China.http://www.lanyigs.com/en/Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with these?Thanks!

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 11:33:30 am
content: Friend of mine was playing with one of these, I'll ask for feedback.Perhaps good idea for you would be also getting some used bench DMM, such as HP/Agilent 34401A or Keithley 2000 from ebay. You can snag working used one for 250-350$ no problems. Get it calibrated (plenty of places can do it for 50-150$) and you will cover 99.9% of needs for usual tinkering and electronics design.

author: mimmus78
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 02:18:08 pm
content: www.lanyigs.comis not working anymore ... does it was voltnutdotted?(Don't know how many of you will get it).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 03:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: John at the Falls on March 29, 2017, 10:36:44 amIt would help us if you gave us a clue as to what property/properties you want to make, and to what accuracy/repeatability/resolution.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 04:06:02 pm
content: mimmus78you got great-walledWorking here from TW. I remembers others having issues to access site too.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 06:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: mimmus78 on March 29, 2017, 02:18:08 pmI can connect... It looks quite neat actually... Here is the extract from manual with specs..

author: mimmus78
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 07:46:55 pm
content: TiN we don't need great wall, broken network is a built-in "feature" of our Italian internet 😂 (still not working here after 8h).Inviato dal mio Nexus 6P utilizzando Tapatalk

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 08:23:19 pm
content: If you allow me a quick detour off the topic, there is an interesting web site:https://www.akamai.com/us/en/solutions/intelligent-platform/visualizing-akamai/real-time-web-monitor.jspIt shows state of traffic load and cyber attacks in progress in real time... It seems EU is under a lot of pressure now..Internet is behaving funny in Croatia too... Some sites work fine some are crap... All the sites in UK are having erratic behaviour for instance..

author: John at the Falls
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2017, 10:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on March 29, 2017, 03:23:18 pmThanks for asking that question and making me think specifically why I would want to purchase this.Condensed answer:1- Best shop practice.2- Traceable standard for when a project becomes commercial.My background is 24 years as an Avionics Tech in the Coast Guard and flying in those same planes in very bad weather. One of my side duties was running the station calibration program through a contractor. It was mostly all 1980s vintage test equipment and only rarely do I ever recall anything needing adjustment. The Fluke digitals had a cal period of 5 years. I wonder if I am just being paranoid or blowing money to repeat an embedded behavior pattern.So right now, I expect my Fluke 16 and Rigol DS1054z to act as reliable standards, trusting that they will never drift from the low precision that I need.Currently I do research to develop products I can build in my machine shop. I do not work on fixing things or fixing things that need to be set back to standards.So what are my needs?1- A set standard to check my instruments just as a matter of best working principles for any shop.2- For products produced in my machine and welding shop that require a specified degree of precision that need to be traced back to a standard.I have a notebook full of ideas such as optical measuring devices and inductive pickups. If one of those products ever rise above the level of cheap uncertified imports, then I will send "Mr. Signal" to the lab for certification on that parameter.Since Mr. Signal does not advertise having any lab certification, I would be trusting it like I do my Fluke and Rigol instruments.When the time comes for commercialization and accountability then I would be able to justify the cost of sending it to a lab for certification. I am on a tight budget and am recovering from my Rigol Scope purchase.I would say single that single digit milivolt range would be precise enough accurate to +- 1 mV. And if anything more than that is needed for a specific project, then that cost becomes part of the project budget and not my Lab budget. I think it is important to understand my project and what is being measured and why and then understanding its need and how it relates to standards. Even with an unlimited budget for an established Cal program, one needs to understand the limits of the program when a project comes up that may surpass the programs boundaries.I know there are many different ways to set and derive standards. I do not have the space or money to set up another lab area using older equipment for Metrics.Overall this looks very convenient especially for thermocouple calibration. It will keep my measurements standardized and when real precision accountability is required, I can send it into a lab.I will attach a photo of Data Logging a 6KW Arc Furnace I tried building with 5 rewound Microwave oven transformers. I hope you all get a few laughs from this. I purchased a bunch of Wal-Mart $20 DMMs. They were accurate enough for the job. I used a Sony Video camera to "log the data". The back 2 meters are of each mains phase voltage. The Termocouple meters are monitoring the transformer temperatures, the Fluke was connected to a DC amp clamp doing 64 Amps and the bottom right meter looks like the final Voltage was 31.9 VAC. I did get 6KW bursts out of it but it just ate up carbon rods too fast. I learned a lot from that experiment on a technical level. There are no books telling one how to make a steel melting arc furnace. I was starting almost from scratch. and also learned a lot about expectations and planning money and time vs. progress. Next time I need to do measurements like this I will use a Raspberry Pi.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 04:54:22 am
content: I'm afraid for commercial product, especially if traceability is needed these little Mr.Signals, nor Fluke 16/Rigol stuff would not be suffice. Most of calibration labs would not want to guarantee traceable calibration for such tier gear as well. Even if lab accepts Mr.Signal for calibration with data, cost of such would be more than 100$. (which is a must to establish stability/predictability, one calibration does nothing but useless pretty numbers). So after few calibrations, you would already invest comparable money than actual traceable instrument, such as old Fluke DC standard/standard resistor or calibrator.It's not the end of the world though, as there are some old "vintage" but still capable equipment on used market, such as Fluke 731's, old Fluke 5440 calibrators, etc, if you patient to wait for good deal and ready to deal with heavy items shipping/pickup.Here are photos of insides from my friend:

author: John at the Falls
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:50:46 am
content: Quote from: TiN on March 30, 2017, 04:54:22 amThanks for the good post. What does your friend use it for and what does he think of it?If I recall right, a Cal Lab has to work from a calibration procedure provided by the instruments manufacturer to certify the whole instrument. We are lucky these days if we can even find a user manual for some of this imported equipment. So if Mr. Signal is not able to be certified, what real purpose does it have other than just "another opinion"?It seems we just rely on the quality and reputation of the equipment manufacturer. But those that do critical work, having properly calibrated equipment is part of the job.Perhaps I think to highly of my hobby/start up work.But I do know that if I develop a product that uses quantitative information, then I will have to develop as system to guarantee that data.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:15:49 am
content: Quote from: John at the Falls on March 30, 2017, 08:50:46 amYes, but consider crossing that bridgeifyou come to it. And if you do cross it, there will be many other things you have to consider - forking out a little money would be the least of your concerns.(But, although you have said "1mV", you haven't said 1mV in 10mV or 1kV, nor for temperature whether you are interested in absolute temperature or temperature changes)

author: iizerg
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 07:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: TiN on March 30, 2017, 04:54:22 amTiN, thanks for helping with the photos.The device is not in the hands at the moment. If there are specific questions, I'll try to recall experience of using the device.

author: John at the Falls
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2017, 12:19:44 am
content: I decided to work this into my budget.I built a battery pack for my Rigol DS1054Z and the only meter I had handy was an analog with a 10 Amp scale. My reading was 225mA which did not add up after watching the battery capacity on the charger. The actual reading was between 470 to 500mA which made more sense.While not NIST traceable, I hope to trust the spec sheet for this. The specs are all an order of magnitude more than I need and should keep me from wasting time from bad readings.I think this is a better investment for my lab than a $100 signal generator since I am not doing any Audio or RF work.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2017, 12:37:41 am
content: Reading about this device I would give you a mechanical analogy that seems appropriate to me. This instrument is like buying standard size drill rod and using it as a reference. Think of that relative to the fact that you have a set of gauge blocks. But also spend time thinking about the precision you will need in your electrical endeavors. You probably trust your gauge blocks to less than 0.001 inch, (I'm still Imperial for this sort of thing). Or roughly one part in one thousand. This is somewhat better than most of your hand held meters will claim in accuracy. Which is more than good enough for most purposes.Do you need one part in a thousand accuracy in your reference? Probably not for your stated purposes, though most volt nuts would sneer at such a low level of precision.

author: John at the Falls
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2017, 06:39:03 am
content: Hi CatalinaThat is an excellent analogy using the drill rod. While generally not certified, you can bank on the specifications and those specs are accurate enough for general metal work. But it is still nice to have the set ofshop gradecertified gage blocks. The are the lowest cost and affordable blocks and are more accurate and precise than any of my machines can measure.Measure it with micrometersMark it with chalkcut it with an axe.... is what I would be doing if I spent the money on used lab grade equipment.Now I just found this little item which gets good reviews and is only $20 USD:KKMOON High Precision Voltage Reference Module AD584kH 4-Channel 2.5V/7.5V/5V/10Vhttp://a.co/60UtGPxThis might be a good starting point to derive some values but after looking at the price of precision resistors on eBay I might as well pay for a Mr. Signal and get all the extra features and convenience.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2017, 04:17:16 pm
content: Quote from: John at the Falls on April 08, 2017, 06:39:03 amI can't speak to your application, but for the vast majority of people involved in electronics the answer is a resounding yes. Just to give a specific example I am troubleshooting a dead power supply. The manufacturer has provided a nice schematic including reference voltages to be expected at key points through the circuit. A note on the schematic points out that these voltages are +/- 20%. Your meter has to be in rough shape to be a factor in checking things like that.That is not to take away from the satisfaction of knowing that your measurements are right. I have a number of counters and timers whose time base is accurate to between one part in 100,000 and one part in 1,000,000 and am actively pursuing stepping that up by a couple of orders of magnitude. Not quite time nut territory but getting there.