New Twist to Printer Ink Refill Scam  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 06:06:47 pm
content: Canon DISABLES scanner when ink runs out. Who owns this scannerthis video deserves more interest.when independent functional systems stop working just because one part is out of ink. so international corporations can sell more ink.just knowing that this is happening is troublingIMO this is a new twist printer ink refill scam.now just imagine if your Internet of things shutdown in sympathy, for your printer? or its it their printer!or your operating system had sympathy for the printer been out of ink, so stopped working!were will this type of BS end?

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 08:33:28 pm
content: I had an inkjet printer do something similar-ish.I found one at the dumpster and it still had plenty of ink in it but wouldn't print because some ink drainage was fullTo fix this issue it said to bring the printer in for service (yeah right).But if i pressed a button combo to print a test image it worked perfectly well.I didn't find a way to reset this nonsense so i tore it down to salvage components, there was no sensor to sense any kind of drain.The whole thing was entirely calculated in the processor to just assume it's done with life after some number of prints.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 08:55:36 pm
content: I have a Brother all-in-one that works the same way--you can't scan documents or FAX anything if the ink cartridge is empty.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 09:44:13 pm
content: Refrigerator, what model printer?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 12:31:03 am
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on October 21, 2021, 08:33:28 pmThat's the "waste ink counter", there's an absorbent pad on the bottom that holds the ink it spits out when doing cleaning cycles, and when it gets "full" (as calculated by the counter) it stops, because continuing could cause the ink to actually overflow out of the printer. For some models there are reset programs, it's a value stored in EEPROM somewhere. Of course the real solution is to make it a bottle that you can empty when it gets full, and those running a CIS will usually have an external one added:http://www.undr.com/understatement/2008/epson_1280_ink_waste_tank/index.htmlThe community has managed to produce working open-source 3D printers, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in hacking 2D printers beyond the commercial ones (some of those greedy ba$tards charge to reset the counter too....)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 12:34:18 am
content: This is exactly why I refuse to buy multifunction devices. I want a separate scanner and printer, most of the time I only need a printer, I pull out the scanner and set it up when I need to scan something. I also gave up on inkjets and only have a color laserjet.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 12:39:01 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on October 21, 2021, 06:06:47 pmI used to have ink jet before I got frustrated with colors drying out. But, I remember that you could buy off-brand carts with the chip so they would work fine. Are you saying that this little trick makes you have to buy the name brand ink carts because they have a new scam that can't be replicated in after market ink carts?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 01:48:52 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on October 21, 2021, 06:06:47 pmNot even remotely new, nor unique to Canon, nor unique to inkjet models.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 01:59:45 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on October 21, 2021, 08:55:36 pmWhich model is it?I also have a Brother multi-function unit (MFC-790CW) and all of the features and functions still work regardless of the ink levels. In fact it only monitors whether the ink cartridges are present or not and if removed it asks if you have replaced a particular colour cartridge (BYCM), at which point you can say you did and it will show a full cartridge in the ink level display. This model only gives an estimation on ink used and doesn't monitor the cartridges in any other way which is handy for refills or if using generic after market cartridges, best printer I ever bought.Anyway, in regards to the video and because of their questionable and bullshit business practices the big guns at Canon need to be fired.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 02:22:25 am
content: Canon have been doing this for years. We needed to scan some documents while out on a remote site, before smartphones had decent cameras. The fastest solution was to drive into town and buy a Canon MFC from Australia Post. Wouldn't do a thing until it had a workng ink cartridge fitted. We made a few copies, used up the ink then wanted to scan again - nope. It's now slowly decomposing in a hole near Injune.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 03:41:26 am
content: It's not new, HP and others have been doing it for years (decade now??). I suppose it's just understood as normal to gripe about ink levels in inkjets made by almost anyone. It's just that, apparently, people are finally getting vocal about the same things applied to MFPs. Why that took so many years, I have no idea.Tim

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 07:16:29 am
content: I would simply return it under warranty. Problem solved.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 07:22:32 am
content: Oh it’s him… no thanks, he’s too depressing.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 01:49:10 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 22, 2021, 07:22:32 am?? Confused... What was wrong with the validity of his Post?It seemed like a valid point, if not only the Printer ceased printing, but the 'Scanner' function did also ??

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 09:25:59 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on October 21, 2021, 08:55:36 pmNot being able to send a fax without ink actually makes sense. It is not very smart to sent out a fax without what is called a qualified sending report. That is a printout containing the time and date, and parts of the first page. If the receiver ever claims to have gotten nothing, or just an empty page, this report can be used to verify that you really have sent the document.Not being able to scan is of course simply a dick move.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 10:01:24 pm
content: QuoteFor a standalone device far enough,but for something connected to a computer the report could just as easily be saved on the host machine

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 10:21:31 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on October 22, 2021, 09:25:59 pmA person could just as easily throw away that printout and not have it anymore, or they could forge it easily to show that a fax was sent when it was not. I can see warning them that it would not be possible to print the sending report, but there is no excuse to flat out block it.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 08:27:44 am
content: Why am I not surprised.They will all but give you a printer. Between the discount and rebate, I almost made money on one I "bought". It is the INK that they are selling. And at astronomical prices.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 09:29:49 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on October 22, 2021, 12:39:01 amNot just that. Color printers have been secretly printing yellow dots on B/W prints for some time now. Supposedly, so they can ID your printer if you send a letter with a bomb threat or something like that. So your color printer will not print B/W if your color cartridge is not there or empty.But yeah, unable to use scanner due to ink cartridge is not acceptable. I was looking for a low cost standalone duplex scanner so I can just scan and archive that million letters that goverments like to send us. Nope, they dont make those, cheapest one is like 300 EUR.

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 10:17:06 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 26, 2021, 09:29:49 amI thought this was just laser printers? "Justified" by concerns about forged documents, money, etc.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 02:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 26, 2021, 09:29:49 amOnly on color lasers, not inkjets.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 07:00:02 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 26, 2021, 09:29:49 amNote to self: Buy a BW laser printer in case I ever need to organise a revolution.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2021, 09:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: richard.cs on October 26, 2021, 10:17:06 amMaybe the yellow dots is only for laser. For the inkjet, we may just lack the evidence, or widely available knowledge of it, I wouldn't be surprised there was still something printed on it.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 02:42:24 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on October 21, 2021, 06:06:47 pmYes, that is BS. I bought an HP inkjet for light home use. It actually stopped working because I refused to connect it to the internet. I returned it. I refuse to buy anything else HP (that isn't test equipment ;-P ).

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 06:43:11 am
content: Quote from: duckduck on October 27, 2021, 02:42:24 amAre you bloody kidding me, I wouldn't even buy any modern HP test equipment.I would make an exception for vintage HP test equipment. You know, the type which has no download-able firmware.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 01:42:14 pm
content: Fortunately modern-HP makes no test equipment, so you're safe. It's a shitty computer and peripherals brand. Not in the sense of "second rate", but shitty in tactics, you know, *gestures vaguely at the thread*.Tim

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 02:00:32 pm
content: Quote from: duckduck on October 27, 2021, 02:42:24 amWow are you kidding me? So printer only works if you connect it to some webs service?I wonder if there is a "big red button" at HP which makes your ink levels low, because some sales target weren't met.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 02:06:30 pm
content: Nah, none so arbitrary. They merely pre-underfill the cartridges for you, so you don't keep buying new printers for refills.Tim

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 03:14:06 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 27, 2021, 02:06:30 pmNot even needed.Just clean your head. Watch this (I put it on the relevant starting time)Seriously, this is shocking, even if you know all of the stuff in this threadhttps://youtu.be/DkuAg46-f7c?t=58

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2021, 11:55:28 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 26, 2021, 09:44:36 pmNo. In every source I’ve ever read about this, including databases of printer models and how to decode the yellow dots, it’s never shown up in an inkjet, and that’s by skilled people who were looking for them. Presumably because laser toner’s glossy appearance on matte paper is sort of essential to even a low-quality counterfeit.Additionally, it’s easy to sneak those in on a page printer; on a moving-carriage printer, it would be very conspicuous if the printer moved the heads over blank areas of the page, too…

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 07:39:32 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on October 27, 2021, 03:14:06 pmThe printer is cleaning the printhead by passing a lot of ink through it. It isn't doing it just to waste ink.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 09:09:52 am
content: Quote from: duckduck on October 27, 2021, 02:42:24 amYou likely ran afoul of one of their "Instant Ink" Printers. Those do require regular internet connection.But lets be honest here. If you only print a couple of pages each month, Instant Ink can actually be a good deal. HP will automatically send you new print cartridges, as soon as the current ones are nearly empty. This includes ink used for regular cleaning cycles.The major caveat is of course that the printer regularly needs to talk to the mothership.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 09:42:26 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on October 28, 2021, 07:39:32 amAbsolutely, and I did not meant to imply anything else. I even prefaced with "Just clean your head"But once you realise that any cleansing cycle is flushing what is effectively liquid gold, and flushing it at this rate, you reconsider.This actually happened to me once:brand newink, but clogged nozzle, so I deep cleaned it twice....next up was the almost out of ink warning.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 11:40:14 am
content: And that’s why the “ink tank” inkjets (the models with built in bulk ink systems) are really the way to go for most people. The ink is dirt cheap. In return, you’re paying the true price of the printer, not the subsidized price.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 12:04:46 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 27, 2021, 11:55:28 pmThey could add color to black prints in tiny quantities, and form an identifier, that is only visible if you look for it. I'm not saying they do this, but there can be other methods to place an ID in a print.This is not the elephant in the cherry tree situation. And I don't wear tinfoin hat.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 02:38:49 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on October 22, 2021, 07:16:29 amI think people are missing the importance of this remark.Broken by design products are still broken. It's only more of a reason to return them under warranty. If more people, say even 5% did that, companies would immediately doing shit like this.But people work irrationally, when they understand a company intentionally make a broken product it's kind of accepted. When a product genuinely breaks down, only then people demand for warranty repair.I work the opposite way, if otherwise well designed and good product has some minor flaw causing it to genuinely break down, I might try to fix it on my own, but broken-by-design crap I will instantly return.