Are these scopes a good deal? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2014, 03:20:50 pm
content: For a long time Ive been watching for one cheap scope that I could get, unfortunately I just can't get one of those cheap scopes on eBay because overseas shipping cost an absurd amount.I found 2 sellers on a site like eBay but locally.I never had any scopes before, so I would like to get some second opinions.QuoteQuote----What do you guys think? It is a good deal, should I get one of these?What should I check or ask the seller before buying?

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2014, 03:27:16 pm
content: What country are you located in?

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2014, 03:28:20 pm
content: Quote from: JoeO on July 31, 2014, 03:27:16 pmI'm a student located in Brazil.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 02:43:58 am
content: I asked the the seller of the first scope were exactly was the switch with bad contact, and if it was usable as is.Translated reply:QuoteI tried to translate it and don't change the original meaning. It sounded that it doesn't have any serious problem and a bit of cleaning should do it.is it a good deal, should I get one of those scopes? What should I check or ask the seller before buying? I really need some help here.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 03:53:40 am
content: idk what the scope market in brazil is like, but $200 for either of those scopes seems VERY high to me.

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 09:05:28 am
content: I would agree, for the bandwidth the scopes are a bit pricy.Malcolm

author: mzacharias
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 11:08:36 am
content: The Taiwanese - built B&K scopes from the late '80s and into the '90s, such as the one shown, are crap. Earlier models like the 1477 etc were built by Kenwood and were much better.The Kenwood shown would be a decent scope - but it's quite likely to need the controls cleaned; they could be very, VERY crusty. The B&K model 1540 would be almost identical, by the way - and are relatively plentiful on eBay.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 12:39:51 pm
content: What is the price of a new Rigol DS1052E in your county?

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 01:27:33 pm
content: Another point to consider is what you need the scope for. Analog or digital work?I prefer good analog scopes over cheap digital ones for most things. But that is my opinion and I am sure that there are many others out there who see that different.In any case, the traces on the 40MHz look indeed weird. Seeing that this would be your first scope, I would pass on that one. Repairing a scope without another one can be a though job, especially if you dont have much experience in that field.>200USD for 20MHz is way too much by the way. You should be able to get a decent unit from europe/USA for that price.20MHz scopes can go for as low as 30USD in germany for example. Shipping to Brazil depends on the weight but can be as much as 130USD (for 20kg, ~90USD for 10kg). However, even with shipping and taxes/import dutys added, that might still be cheaper than your local unit.

author: 1xrtt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 01:28:48 pm
content: Victor, I feel your pain.Unfortunately, getting a scope in Brazil won't be cheap. To get one of these BK Precision on Ebay, plus shipping and customs, you'll end up paying three times the original price:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BK-Precision-2522-20-MHz-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-Untested-/170655966961?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item27bbe366f1Which makes these you found on Mercade Livre more attractive. The ideal situation, if possible, is to find some friend who travels to US and is willing to bring one large, heavy piece of equipment in the luggage. It worked for me, but it's not always possible.Quote from: KedasProbe on August 01, 2014, 12:39:51 pmA Rigol maybe an better alternative, as pointed out by KedasProbe, but I don't see any local distributors. Getting from Aliexpress:http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/50MHz-DSO-1GSa-S-2-Channel-DS-1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-RIGOL-DS1052E/517349821.htmlbut you must consider the 60% import tax.Good luck!

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 01:43:20 pm
content: That import tax is an interesting thing.Is it really 60% for any kind of gear? Does this apply for the unit price itself only or does it include shipping costs?

author: 1xrtt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 03:16:11 pm
content: Quote from: phil on August 01, 2014, 01:43:20 pm*Anything* over a total USD50, (price+shipping+insurance+whatever) pays 60%. There are exactly two exceptions: printed media (books, magazines) and medications (for personal use).There are also some scenarios with additional costs, like if someone lives on a different state where the goods entered customs, he/she may pay interstate duties

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 03:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: 1xrtt on August 01, 2014, 03:16:11 pmMy state is MG, I've heard that they have a tax of 15% (over the total+60% value, witch is so stupid ). My packets have never been caught on that, but I'm not sure about overseas tho.I just can't be patriotic when I'm been raped by taxes.A 60% duty is not fair. I couldn't find the rigol dso, but the cheapest dso's I could find have a starting price point around 600 dollars, the sky is the limit.Paypal exchange rate is about 2.4 so US$ 666

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 04:19:36 pm
content: What do you intend to do with the scope? I usually do not recommend USB scopes, because I think the software is lacking and I dont like the computer dependency.In your case however... maybe you can get a cheap(ish) USB scope somewhere? You might even be able to import it as shipping would not be so expensive.But be careful with these USB scopes, many do not have the sample rate to back their bandwidth up. Try to find one with a sample rate at least 5x, better 10x greater than the bandwidth. If not, you WILL get noticeable aliasing problems on faster edges.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 04:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: phil on August 01, 2014, 04:19:36 pmI've been passionate for electronics since I was a little child, before I had computers. Currently I'm a computer science student. So my former background is software, and I'm carring electronics sideways as a hobby, but I want it to be part of my carrier.Software naturally drove me to micro-controllers and then back into electronics. So it would be general purpose electronics, analog and digital.Something like the rigol dso 1052 would suit all my needs. Does it have FTT? And it is easily avaliable in the US? I know someone that lives in New York. I would be a bit uncomfortable situation but it maybe could be an option.

author: torr032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 05:36:49 pm
content: Quote from: phil on August 01, 2014, 01:27:33 pmI am also searching to buy a scope from Germany, but still haven't seen some 20Mhz for 30USD.

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 07:01:20 pm
content: Then you have clearly not been looking hard enoughYou dont see these deals every day, but they are there. Try browsing the list of completed listings. There are quite a few scopes that sold for <40€, some even <30€. Likethis. Orthis.Also, there are a few hamegs with less than 1 day left and still <10€. But you have to find these by yourself.Back to topic:You have basically two options if you want to do both analog and digital stuff:1.) get a digital scope2.) get an analog scope and a cheap logic analyzerI recommend 1.) in your case as a DSO gives you more options. The rigol 1052E is a solid scope even though it is pretty much obsolete now that the 1000Z series is available. However, it did not lose any of its usefulness. It should be readily available in the US. It does have FFT functionality by the way.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 07:41:28 pm
content: I would not consider them unless I could also get full service documentation.

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 07:56:39 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on August 01, 2014, 07:41:28 pmYou can. Americans wont know this, but hameg is a very reputable german manufacturer. They produce low/middle end stuff, but nearly all their analog scopes have either a full user and service manual or at least a user manual with schematics and some testing instructions.Most of them are available on the hameg website. Printed copies are available through ebay. Also, they use readily available standard parts and are easy to repair. Same goes for most voltcraft stuff, thats the brand of a big electronics company here.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2014, 11:30:13 pm
content: Anyone is familiar with importing from deal extreme in the US? It's simple as paying online and it arriving at your door?Because I kinda could buy it from dx and make an acquaintance in New York receive it at her door and then I wait until she comes here. But it would be already too much trouble, so if she needs to pay something and or have to pick the package somewhere else I don't want to bother her.Omg there must be another way

author: rodpp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 12:12:12 am
content: Look at Farnell br website, they sell an Agilent (rebranded Rigol) for R$999,99. Very simple but a good price for Brazil.And there are two Rigol sellers, Getrotech and MIT Meastech. The Getrotech website has some prices, but ask by email.Enviado de meu XT1058 usando Tapatalk

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 12:27:46 am
content: The high import duty you pay - is that calculated on the price of the item, or on the item plus shipping cost?If it's on the item cost only, is it possible to receive an item marked as 'gift' from someone overseas, making the value to you of zero?Because if that's true, you have another option. You could make an agreement with someone on this forum where you pay them (Paypal?) to buy something you chose, then ship it to you as a gift. Or goods of very low value.Someone in a country not too far away from Brazil, which pretty much excludes Australia.I'm all for bypassing outrageous government extortion by any means possible.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 12:39:18 am
content: It's a pity Brazil & Oz are so distant. Because I have this BK Precision 2120 20MHz scope I've been meaning to give to some student.Other problem: It's dead (horizontal amp dead), and I haven't yet found a manual with schematics. Would prefer to donate it in working condition.But the shipping to Brazil would be ridiculous. It's the kind of crappy low end scope that's only worth giving if passed hand to hand with no costs.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 01:11:14 am
content: @TerraHertzhttp://elektrotanya.com/bk_precision_2120b_sch.pdf/download.htmlIf that's not good enough I may have an earlier version in the file cabinet.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 02:24:59 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on August 02, 2014, 01:11:14 amThanks!Sigh. I got the scope out to take that photo, then already packed it away again. Will have a look in the next few days to see if the B version is much different.Hopefully not, and if so I'll have a go at fixing the scope then put it up for giveaway. I'm seriously trying to reduce the amount of excess stuff in storage here.Ha ha... don't ask me what 'seriously' means.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 02:36:37 am
content: @TerraHertzWhat do you know, here is the 2120 version service manual. It's the same one I have here, and yes I have it on the bench in working condition.http://elektrotanya.com/b_k_2120_oscilloscope_sch.pdf/download.html

author: torr032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 12:47:48 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on August 02, 2014, 12:39:18 amMy friend do you know how much is the shipping to my country? I could really use a scope but so far didn't manage to acquire one, they are also quite expensive in my country.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 02:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: torr032 on August 02, 2014, 12:47:48 pmHmm. I only know that paying to ship a very crummy 20MHz scope _anywhere_ overseas would be stupid. There MUST be a way you can find one from somewhere closer? Or if you have to pay shipping from literally the opposite side of the world, then do it for a good scope.Did you ever see the posts I made about using a reshipper from the USA? The one I use is shipito.com, and can't recommend them enough. One great thing they have is is shipping calculator on their front page - enter box size and weight, which of their warehouses as origin, your country as destination, and see the cost. It's a LOT less than standard shipping, due to the volume discounts they get with freight companies. So the seller just posts standard US domestic mail to the reshipper (does not even need to know it's going overseas, if you don't tell them), then the reshipper takes it from there.Though, that's to Australia, which probably has a lot of volume. To Bosnia, I have no idea.If that works for you, then start trying to buy a good but cheap scope on US ebay. Use a snipe bidding service likehttps://www.bidnapper.comto avoid pointless bidding competitions.Plenty of good scopes in the $40 to $60 range.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 02:29:41 pm
content: I don't know if it's any help to you but I have put my old rigol up for sale. It can be found here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221505913922?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649I don't know how imports work in brazil, in the UK everything is being charged at 20% of the value of the item including shipping plus a £10 administration fee from the courier

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 04:25:07 pm
content: Quote from: torr032 on August 02, 2014, 12:47:48 pmYou live in europe. Even though your country is not in the EU yet, shipping from european sellers would be a better option. Shipping from germany to you would cost 35€ for 10kg or 50€ for 20kg.What are you looking for? Analog or digital? General purpose electronics work?

author: torr032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 06:10:54 pm
content: Quote from: phil on August 02, 2014, 04:25:07 pmYes I know Germany is the best option and I am searching on ebay. Problem here is they will charge a big tax for anything above about 30€, for a total of 60€ paid for the 10kg scope they could charge total of 50€ for the different taxes.Looking for general purpose work, checking ripple in power supplies and for audio work, mainly amplifiers.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 06:17:16 pm
content: I still wonder why we ask what the scope will be used for. It's a scope, it shows on the screen what you are probing......

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 06:31:16 pm
content: Try ZA, where you pay for both sending the parcel to you ( shipping is pretty high to here from any place other than China and HK) and on the incoming Customs would look at it and decide if it was over the threshold and charge you 20% ad valorum, then import duty if it falls in a category that has it, then a handling fee ( varies) and then 14% VAT on top of all that.

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 06:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on August 02, 2014, 06:17:16 pmBecause some people just want a decive to show traces while others have a very special task in mind, like high speed logic or similar things. This is important if you want to recommend a certain scope or scope family. Analog scopes are often cheap to get, but they may not fulfill the specific need that some people have.

author: torr032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2014, 06:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 02, 2014, 06:31:16 pmUp here they will also for the heavier items charge a shipping from the central post to your place. I live in a city 70km from the central post and one time for the 6kg packet they charged me about 10€. For the 10kg scope if it is paid more than some 25€, maybe 30€, they would probably charge 15€ without asking you and your approval, just the bill come. It would be cheaper for me to travel alone there and pick it, but no they want to charge you as much as possible.