Looking for a new handheld multimeter with fast autorange, Keysight U1282A?? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2016, 11:45:56 am
content: Hello,I need a new handheld multimeter. It should have good specs (>=50.000 count, < 0.03 % DC accuracy) and a fast autorange / continuity test. Mainly used for DC Voltage / Current, Ohms, Temperature (Type K).I like the Keysight products and can get a rebate of 25% in August. So I was looking at the U1282A, U1253B and U1252B.The U1253B with the OLED Display looks nice, but seems to be slow and the display doesn't hold too long as other owners have reported here in the forum. Is the U1252B faster, because it doesn't have to drive the graphical display?Or is the U1282A the better choice?I am also open for other brands, as long as they are fast and have good specs. Price <= EUR 450 (= US$ 500) without VAT.Many thanks for your replies.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2016, 11:53:31 am
content: I have no experience with any of the meters in question, but for what it's worth, I doubt it makes any difference whether it's a graphical display or not, because I assume that the graphics are processed by a separate chip. With almost complete certainty the ADC speed is far, far lower than the display refresh rate.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2016, 12:13:43 pm
content: the fluke 289 was qualified as "slow" at the time it went out, mainly because of its graphical display,the overall impression with low end (or old like the fluke) graphical display remains sloweven is the internal adc is fast !

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2016, 07:45:40 pm
content: I have had the U1273A for some time now. The OLED screen on mine shows no signs of wear so far and i find the thing runs forever on those AAA bateries (I do have the screen brightness set to low tho since i keep using it indoors). I would certainly buy a OLED screen meter again as its so nicely readable compared to LCD.As for the update rate it tends to be limited by the ADC. And these agilents are certainly pretty fast with the update rate compared to other handheld meters. You can get much faster on bench meters but at that point it mostly turns in to a blur of numbers even on a fast response time display.The particular one that i have is not really that fast for auto ranging but its not agonizingly slow. But it has one huge flaw in it. When changing between the 3 Vdc to 30 Vdc it has to click a reed relay inside, but doing that takes a solid second. This means whenever you measure voltages over 3V (And lets face it that's most of the time) you have to wait ages for your reading to show up. My solution is to put it in to 30Vdc range manualy.The genius who designed it must have also worked on the 34461A. On that one getting in to the 100 MOhm range requires a fairly loud relay click. So when meshuring resistance that relay is constantly clicking every time you touch the probes to something unless you put it in to manual range. Tho it does autorange down to a short circuit on ohms super quick.(The old keithley bench meters are still faster tho)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2016, 07:54:24 pm
content: I don't own one, but the Hioki DT4282 supposedly has fast autoranging:https://www.hioki.com/en/products/list/?category=20

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2016, 08:29:49 pm
content: You should note that there's no replacement OLED screens available on HH DMM's equipped with it. So if it dies outside of the warranty, you may end up having to buy a new meter.Some U1253B owners have gotten lucky with the CS rep, and got a free replacement meter anyway, but I wouldn't gamble on this.I ended up buying a U1252B in '09 IIRC ($100 rebate), and it's an excellent meter IME. The bar graph moves faster than the digits change, but that's not a problem as the display update rate is fast enough, as is the auto ranging.ABrymen BM869would be worth a serious look IMHO as well (I've a BM857a, which is the previous generation). Greenlee sells them in the US as theirDM-860A(they handle the warranty should you have a problem, but it's over $100 more). You can get a genuine Brymen by ordering from TME.eu in Poland, and they're the least expensive source (see BM869 link). They do ship internationally, and it's not expensive (~$10). Warranty wise, you'd likely have to ship it back to Taiwan (immediate issue, back to Poland).Use quality test leads; the ones that came with my U1252B aren't as sharp or as flexible as I'd like (silicone insulation, but stiff & has a memory from being packaged up). I'd recommend taking a serious look atProbemaster(excellent quality & value IME).

author: buyman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 04:38:20 pm
content: I know exactly your problem as I'm looking for a similar meter. On my list there is the U1272A - the U1282A is to expensive. But the U1252B and the U1251A may be an alternative as I'm seeing now.What I would clearly not do is going for the OLED displays.I also had a look at the Hioki DT4282 which is my favorite at the moment. I tested it in the company and in terms of usability it's one of the best dmm I've seen so far. Unfortunately the PC connector / software is very expensive (>100€) - so that's clearly a point for the Agilent (and the major point why I still have not decided which one to buy).Other alternatives would be the Chauvin Arnoux MTX3291, but I'm sceptical because of its unusal design and user interface.Other would be the Brymen 869, but as I'm not counting Brymen as a "well known" manufacturer (like Fluke, Agilent/Keysight, Hioki, Chauvin Arnoux, Gossen, ...) I'm not 100% OK with it. Altough it's about half the price of the Keysight and Hioki.The same is with the Uni-T 71D (EU version), which would mostly also fit my needs at 1/3 to 1/4 of the price of the others.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 05:30:01 pm
content: Quote from: buyman on August 28, 2016, 04:38:20 pmThere were 3 primary reasons I went for the U1252B:It had the features I wanted without the OLED screen.Less expensive to connect to a PC (hardware only, as the software is free).Agilent was running a $100 rebate at the time I purchased it.Quote from: buyman on August 28, 2016, 04:38:20 pmBrymen has done a LOT of ODM work for well know brands, including Greenlee, Mastech, and Extech IIRC.They're well built IME (proper protections & board quality is good as well). Mine has also taken the biggest beating vs. my Fluke or Agilent/Keysight due to automotive use (falls/drops), as I don't want to use my more expensive meters.The PC connection kits are reasonably priced as well.Oh, and that Hioki? It uses a Brymen chip.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 06:12:03 pm
content: <<Oh, and that Hioki? It uses a Brymen chip.>>Can you provide a link to your source? This is news to me. Sanwa has used Brymen ICs, not Hioki, AFAIK.

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 06:14:05 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies.After reading lots of reviews I will try another Multimeter: The Uni-T UT181A. Sure, it is not a Keysight, but it only costs 250 Euos + VAT and has everything included (USB cable, Temperature sensors and adapter). The specs are roughly the same as the U1282A. The graphical display is nice, and the battery should last for at least 50 hours. It seems to be fast enough, altough the display update is only aroud two times per second. But the continuity beep is really quick. There is a review from Joe Smith on youtube, he checked everything and also found a problem with ESD. Hopefully this unit will not die on me, if it does, Keysight is the next one (or the Hioki, as it seems to be really fast).I will check the accuracy of the Uni-T with my lab meters and will see how much it will drift in time.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 06:39:39 pm
content: Please note that Hioki DT4282 has no bargraph although it is quite expensive.Uni-T UT181A is not good, it has a strange proprietary acupack that might be hard to buy after three years or so.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-ut181a-pictures/Note that small fuse.You should buy Keysight, Fluke, Brymen, Hioki or Gossen Metrawatt. (There might be another high quality brand that I forgot about, sorry.) Choose a DMM powered by AA / AAA cells or by a 6LR61 / 6F22 9V battery.

author: buyman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 07:04:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 28, 2016, 06:39:39 pmIt's as expensive as Keysight if you chose the same specs. At least what I found out when comparing the prices. And the Keysight has a 25% discount until end of August - otherwise it would be more expensive than the DT4282. Fluke and Gossen are even more expensive. Only Brymen is cheaper. If I'm wrong, then I'd be glad to learn about new suppliers for Germany/Austria which are selling to private persons / sutdents to save some bucksBargraph is an issue tough, as well as the price of the pc interface for the Hioki.I'd love to get my hands on a Brymen or on a Keysight DMM before buying to see the differences between the different brands. The Auto Hold feature of the Hioki is impressive, as well is the responsiveness, especially for continuity testing.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 07:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on August 28, 2016, 06:12:03 pmSorry about that (got my brands mixed up on that one).BTW, does anyone know about the chip in the Yokogawa TY71 & TY720?My searches haven't turned up anything.Quote from: Magnum on August 28, 2016, 06:14:05 pmDo be aware their build quality isn't that good based on the various teardowns, and this does include a higher end model or two IIRC, not just their lowest cost offerings.I think you'd be better off with a different make. I'm not sure what your fear is with Brymen, but their products are FAR better built than what I've seen of Uni-T. And is certainly more budget friendly than either Keysight or Hioki. Or Fluke, Gossen, Yokogawa, and Sanwa for that matter.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 10:47:11 pm
content: I have a Greenlee DM-820A (I don't recall which Brymen model it is under the hood) and a Keysight U1252B. They're both good meters with their own pros/cons with respect to each other. The update rate on the U1252B is considerably faster. However, its continuity mode is rather slow if left on the default auto setting. Instead, change it to the MOhms scale and it's nice and quick.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 11:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on August 28, 2016, 10:47:11 pmI think it is a BRYMEN BM827S with added backlight. You can google it.Well, Brymen BM827S costs 137 USD.http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm827/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm827s/Keysight U1252B costs 461 USD.http://www.tme.eu/en/details/u1252b/portable-digital-multimeters/keysight-technologies/For 3× the price it should be a nice DMM!It has a built-in battery charger for a standard 6F22 size NiMh 9V battery. Cool.http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1766293-pn-U1252B/handheld-digital-multimeter-45-digit?pm=PL&nid=-33167.920238&cc=CZ&lc=eng

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2016, 11:46:08 pm
content: Thanks for comments about quality and battery of the UT181A, now I have to start all over againAfter seeing the display of the UT181A I'd prefer a OLED or TFT display, because it is readable from all angles. Last time when I was measuring in the field I always had to reposition my old DMM in the right direction to read it.The U1253B is slow, and the battery life sucks, so that is out. Now I checked the U1273A, which uses standard batteries. Continuity and autorange seems to be ok. Any comments on that?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 12:35:18 am
content: Quote from: Magnum on August 28, 2016, 11:46:08 pmDo be aware that OLED used in DMM's doesn't have anywhere near as long a useable lifespan as LCD. And this is definitely the case with the Keysight DMM's, which is why I recommend sticking to LCD. Tossing an expensive DMM ~3 years because you can't get replacement displays is a waste of money IMHO (and just plain crazy from a natural resources POV).Even the best OLED tech I'm aware of is only good for ~10 years (if you believe the marketing), and it's going to be some time before it ever becomes available for a DMM display (for costs to fall sufficiently it's economically viable). Yet LCD's that are 20+ years old are still running strong. And in the case of Keysight, there are replacement displays listed as orderable parts last I checked.The U127x series are primarily designed for industrial electricians, not electronics. The U125x series however, is much better suited for electronics use.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 04:16:44 am
content: I have a Hioki DT4281 here if you have any questions in particular, I also have a Fluke 87V and the Brymen BM235 for comparison. It's similar to the DT4282 it just trades the high current option for an AC clamp option and a few other things.The Hioki is a nice meter but it's hard to recommend as it is very expensive and somewhat hard to find. It's not quite fully featured as the Keysights either, so I'd call it a small step up overall from the 87V. I only bought mine because I found it for cheap on Yahoo Japan (their eBay).In terms of accuracy, it is competitive with any handheld meter out there so it doesn't get much better than this. For the volt-nuts, it uses a hermetically sealed LTC6652 reference with 8ppm tempco and 20ppm/?kHr drift. =PMy niggles with it;1. I don't get a short beep when a diode is good2. Only 30/100hr battery life with/without backlight!3. No bar graph4. Expensive PC connectorMy favourite thing about it is the responsiveness, it doesn't have a million updates per second but it's one of the few handheld multimeters that specifies autoranging speed. For example, DCV 0 to 100V within 1 second to reach accuracy specs, or within 1.5 seconds until the value stabilises -/+ 2 counts.Having said all that I would prooobably buy a Keysight especially if it's on special. Maybe if you ask nicely they'll let you return it in a few weeks if you don't like it?

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 06:25:05 am
content: @MagnumDo you intend to use the DMM only indoors or outdoors as well? If only indoors, then OLED usability will be fine. Outdoors, it will likely be unusable even at maximum brightness.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 06:28:42 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 28, 2016, 11:17:28 pmThanksQuoteThe list price is pretty high, yeah. Fortunately, mine was only 2x.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 07:09:14 am
content: The U1282A has very slow autoranging on the ohms range. I believe that's due to the HY3131 chipset. Apart from that, an excellent meter, albeit overly big.Continuity is great.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 07:34:14 am
content: The real question is how Dave Meter meter rate against these and should we keep our hard earned in our pockets until it is released?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 05:19:12 pm
content: deadlyloverYour Hioki DT4281 has a LCD with a very wide observation range. Quite impressive.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 06:11:59 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on August 29, 2016, 07:34:14 amGood question, but no answer that I'm aware of. If your cash is earmarked for one, and only one, meter then waiting is the only way to find out.

author: buyman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 08:40:39 pm
content: I took a closer look at the Agilents today: U1282A, U1253B and U1252B include different accessories.The U1282A includes the IR interface, while the U1253B and U1252B are missing it. So you would need to add that to your calculation.I missed that, so the U1252B would be more expensive than the U1281B for me.Next big plus for the agilent: calibration certificate for 2 years is included. Hioki is missing that (or you need to buy it additionally). Brymen as well?For me it's now a decission between:U1282A: do I really need the features? 100kHz - nope. 1mOhm resolution - maybe. Ghost voltage detection - maybe. Frequency generator - definitely no. Is it worth 568€?U1281A: nothing to add. 513€ (without case 484)Both with K-Type Adapter and case.Brymen 869s with PC interface and High-Res mode for 300€.Or the Hioki DT4282 with a case and K-Type Adapter for 460€. PC Software is to expensive (120€).So basically its Keysight vs. Brymen - and I haven't used either brand yet.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 09:41:13 pm
content: It looks like you don't need the Keysight features, so go with the Brymen and save some bucks for other goodies.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2016, 11:19:59 pm
content: I still have some doubts whether the Brymen input jacks are durable or not. You can find many teardowns.I like more the jacks on Keysight, Fluke or Hioki DMMs.But no issues have been announced. Probably it is not a problem.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 12:59:47 am
content: If you tend to be rough on your equipment or use it as a ruggedized industrial device, then it might be an issue. For general electronics bench work, I don't worry about the jacks being an issue.

author: redg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 am
content: Quote from: buyman on August 29, 2016, 08:40:39 pmHioki guarantees calibration for one year. I believe you can get a certificate at an additional cost. Do you really need one?Keysight and Hioki come with three year warranties. Brymen's warranty is one year. There is a long thread on this forum about one member's experience, when he needed to trigger the Brymen warranty, that you should read before buying a Brymen product.Hioki's processor, like Fluke's, is Texas Instruments. Keysight, in at least some of its multimeters, uses NEC, but I don't know about the model you are considering. Fluke, Hioki and Keysight are all transparent about what processor they are using. It's right there on the board with full identification, down to the revision number.For some reason, Brymen is not transparent about this. Ten days ago (18 August), Dave Jones released a reverse engineering video on his branded EEV Blog Brymen and concluded that the processor is made by a Chinese company (the processor has Brymen's name on it, and Brymen wouldn't tell him, as the customer, purchaser and vendor for EEV Blog multimeters, who actually makes it).Personally, I think that this is symptomatic of Brymen's whole attitude, starting with its so-called web site (Welcome to the Bright People's Home Page!), which is not only not informative, let alone transparent about the company, but principally succeeds as an insult to one's intelligence.Someone (perhaps you?) said that Keysight is offering 25% off until the end of the month. I own a Hioki DT4252 and am extremely happy with it. But if Keysight is offering 25% off, that may be very attractive. And, of course, Brymen's multimeters are cheaper.

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 05:17:03 am
content: I ordered now the U1273A and will check out the display. If I don't like it, I can send it back and will take a U1272A instead.Why the U1273? It is faster than the U1253A, has better battery life (runs on AAA) and 1mOhm resolution.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 05:46:44 am
content: Quote from: Magnum on August 30, 2016, 05:17:03 amThe display is beautiful as long as you're not in bright light. I use low self discharge Nimh cells in mine.

author: buyman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 06:00:24 am
content: Quote from: redg on August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 amNo, I don't need one for private use. But thank you for that information. Then I will put the company DT4282 (which I ordered recently) on recalibration in one year. Would have done that anyway - but it's good to now the guaranteed time from Hioki.Quote from: redg on August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 amThat's why I'm really sceptical on Brymen meters. Usually I pick my products/shops due to various reasons:1. Do they have the product I want2. Price3. Ratings from existing customers, especially when it comes to returns, defects, guaranteesMostly every shop / product is good, when there is no issue beside from the standard processes. But you can clearly see how good they really are when there is a issue.Quote from: redg on August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 amYes, Keysight is offering 25% off via datatec.de until end of August. The prices I mentioned are already with 25% off, including VAT and some additional accessories I want to have:case: 29€K-Type adapter + thermocouple:29€IR-interface: depending on the product, 0€ if it's already included. If not, then it costs 44€All prices incl. VAT, as I have to pay itBare prices with VAT would be:U1282A: 510U1281A: 455U1252B: 436 (+ PC interface to compare)U1272A: 393 (+ PC interface to compare, but has the therocouple set already included)

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 06:13:22 am
content: Congrats on your purchase. Im sure you will love the display as long as you use it inside the lab (Unless you have your lab lit as bright as a movie stage)The AAA batteries in those OLED meters are a must because the 9V ones have horrendously bad battery life. Setting the display brightness to low gets you similar battery life to an average multimeter running on 9V cells. As for 1mOhm resolution you will appreciate as soon as you have to fix a large PCB that has a mysterious short circuit on its main supply rail (After you put it in to manual ranging that is as auto ranging to 0Ohm takes a bit).

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 10:23:31 am
content: Quote from: redg on August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 amI like that webpage because it can be displayed even on a computer made in 1995, I think. On the other hand, they do not have any user manuals for download there. Only datasheets. That is not good at all.http://www.brymen.com.tw

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 11:10:29 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 30, 2016, 10:23:31 amWow that page does indeed look straight out of '95. Would have expected a company of that size to at least have a proper website. But then again it is better than the modern animated script rich websites that companies tend to get these days, that look all pretty and fancy but make it impossible to find what you came looking for.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 07:26:24 pm
content: That webpage is from 1998(or older, it is not sure).https://web.archive.org/web/19980201231843/http://www.brymen.com.tw/But it just works.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 07:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 30, 2016, 07:26:24 pm"This home page is still under-developing!"

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2016, 08:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on August 29, 2016, 09:41:13 pm+1Quote from: bitseeker on August 30, 2016, 12:59:47 amDefinitely the case IME.Quote from: redg on August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 amLink?I ask, as I searched and didn't find it.FWIW however, Greenlee or Mastech rebrand Brymen and therefore have US based warranty support. If it's got a Brymen label on it, the owner would have to ship it to the vendor, such as TME.eu, or to Brymen in Taiwan, depending on when it broke (i.e. under or over 14 days).Quote from: redg on August 30, 2016, 01:59:49 amThe following might be of interest...Quote from: blueskullSource.Granted Brymen is located in Taiwan, but it's not but a stone's throw from mainland China. So I would expect the same reasoning to apply.

author: buyman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2016, 09:56:28 am
content: What about autorange on the Fluke 287 - is it fast?I thought a decent Fluke would be to expensive for me, but now with this additonal features (case, software) I recognize that the 287 with the FlukeView Forms Combo Kit may be as expensive as the Keysight U1281A/U1282A or the Hioki DT4282. At least if I can buy it from the UK ...

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2016, 11:52:35 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 30, 2016, 08:04:19 pmCould you be more specific?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2016, 02:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: omgfire on August 31, 2016, 11:52:35 amMeant Extech.On the chance they've changed their line-up, I went ahead and checked Mastech and didn't see any rebadged Brymen models.TheMP530Awould be one example from Extech, as are the MM560A & MM570A. Greenlee offers more rebadged Brymen models (most of their line IIRC).

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2016, 05:43:42 pm
content: Received the U1273A today. As I had already ordered the Uni-T 181A I was able to compare both meters:Auto Range is really quick on the U1273A, the 181A is even a bit quicker.Continuity on the U1273A is the fastest I have ever seen on a multimeter. If sound is set to "Single" in the Setup, it gives a intermittent beep when the leads barely touch for the shortest time, and it will continue a bit longer when the leads don't touch anymore. Touching a bit longer and sounds as usual. The sensitivity can be selected. Great to search for intermittent shorts in a cable, saved my day today.The 181A continuity is also really quick, but doesn't have this intermittent feature and sensitivity is fixed.The display of the 181A is bigger, has a higher resolution and a much better (longer) bargraph. Both units are readable in direct sunlight, but not from all angles and it is really no joy. The 181A is slightly better than the U1273A, IMHO because of the white characters instead of yellow.I am really happy with the U1273A, IMHO a great meter with lots of nice extra features.Thanks for all the help from the forum to find the right meter for me.

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2016, 05:47:37 pm
content: Quote from: buyman on August 31, 2016, 09:56:28 amCheck out Joe Smiths video of the UNI-T UT181A, he compares it with a Fluke 289: