HomePlug based home automation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: d-sier
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 10:08:02 pm
content: I have been waiting for someone to release a HomePlug based automation system.Its been about two years now since the first PHY Green chip sets were released but still there is none.The base for my thoughts is that I live in a big old house and re-wiring everything for a KNX is not a fun prospect, at the same time the radio based systems does not have enough reach.So I started thinking the dangerous "How hard can it rely be?"A few nights of Goggling later I realize, being a happy amateur, the answer is "Quite hard".I have been trying to find documentation on the chips/chip sets, but apart from glossy marketing material, I cant find anything.As of now I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I have a couple of options:Forget about it - Someone will surely build it or something similar... Eventually?Stick my head into it - Contact the chip companies and try to get... Something?I would love if some had some input on this.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 10:28:19 pm
content: What sort of things are you trying to shove over your powerlines? Are you going to create your 'home automation' from scratch using passive electronics, microcontrollers, whole computers or commercial solutions?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlughttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communicationA variety of consumer products already exist to do ethernet over powerlines. Using this and control devices such as Beaglebones will be simple, but costly. As neat as avoiding extra wires is, separating power lines from data is both cheaper and more reliable

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 10:47:37 pm
content: Dont worry, NSA is working hard on your home automation. Before you know it everything will be "smart", "big data", and "internet of things which should not be connected".

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 10:52:34 pm
content: There is always X10. With a modem and a reasonably fast microcontroller it is not difficult to get your own home automation controller going.

author: d-sier
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 11:03:09 pm
content: What I would like to create is a low power, direct Ethernet connected home automation system. Of course it should also be OH and OS.A Ethernet over powerline adapter connected to a dev board is one path but its not exactly a neat solution, also a HomePlug AV2 its quite power hungry compared with HomePlug Green PHY.One-off it would probably be cheaper to draw new cables, but have you seen the price of KNX systems?X10's transfer model is ancient and quite bad in large houses.NSA already knows all there is to know about me, Sweden's FRA shares all its data with them. (I once worked on designing telecom systems, all the stories I cant tell anyone)

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 09:27:38 am
content: Quote from: d-sier on January 28, 2014, 11:03:09 pm

author: HSPalm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 09:32:47 am
content: Yeah, please make this. I'm surprised it's not here yet. The mains wiring endpoint before every light switch, dim switch or blinds regulator will both power the device and act as communication lines. You make it fit into a junction box, behind your regular light switch. If you make it ethernet based you don't even need another hardware-based server. I want in on this and I have had the idea for some time.By the way, many HAM radio operators will not be so fond of your ideahttp://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/Testing_HomePlug.htmhttp://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/7273But do you really need ethernet-connection to the fingertips of the system? There's not so much data you need for each device... Was looking at X10 and was wondering why you don't want it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 01:59:56 pm
content: The problem with ethernet is a large amount of overhead (means large controller) and you'll need to develop your own proprietary protocol to implement some level of security. I once worked on an RF home automation design where we used an 80 pin QFP ARM controller and only used 4 pins of I/O. Some bright mind working for that company convinced management we should use SSL...

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 04:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: d-sier on January 28, 2014, 11:03:09 pmWhat about UPB and PLCBUS?

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 04:46:08 pm
content: Quote from: d-sier on January 28, 2014, 11:03:09 pmIf you do it with a central controller that constantly refreshes the state of all modules, it can be very good. It also helps to use more transmit power to keep the SNR high.

author: d-sier
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 10:45:39 pm
content: A design goal, if possible, would of course be to make it fit into a junction box.There is always a risk of HAM's being angry. The only thing you can do is try to limit the amount of disturbance.My "real" job is in IT so the Ethernet part is not rely a problem, more like an advantage as I see it.I am glancing at Greenvity's "Hybrii-Mini chip" GV7013 witch is a system on chip I'm waiting for more information from them (http://www.greenvity.com/products-gv7013.htm)

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 02:57:48 pm
content: Personally I'd sooner try tohacksomething for myself than design something around that SOC, either way a big job ...Seedstudio has a couple of shields for powerline communication too BTW.

author: d-sier
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 05:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on February 01, 2014, 02:57:48 pmYes that would be a lot easier, but then it wouldn't be a challengeAll of Seedstudio's PLC shield have been discontinued.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 05:55:11 pm
content: I didn't say it would be easier, you still have to develop your own hardware ... it just won't require very high frequencies and BGAs. The software you have to write is actually more complex.Also there's the challenge of making it as cheap as possible, without a SSR I think you could get the BOM cost for a module with a serial interface to less than the cost of a single one of those SOCs.

author: d-sier
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 07:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on February 01, 2014, 05:55:11 pmIt's a QFN package, so its a _little_ easier than a BGAI've spent about 10 years of my life as a programmer, some of it working on automation systems.

author: d-sier
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 09:07:00 pm
content: This project has hit a few snags.1. To much to do on my 9-5 job, more like 8-10 for the last months.2. Can not find any chipset that isn't completly bogged down with NDA bs.Right now things need to cool down at work, after that I can only produce the hardware as closed source.Thanks to everyone who took an interest in this.//d-sier

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2014, 05:14:00 am
content: Quote from: Marco on January 29, 2014, 04:23:05 pmRe: UPB at least:In theory? OK.In practice? Just as bad. (Still fighting with some nightmare UPB systems in the field... poor decisions made before I was involved...)

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2014, 06:40:05 am
content: I dont think power line systems for home automation is good.may be if you have a recent house.I had a customer that has an old home where he rewired all the mains (made by a pro) as it was too old and out of norm.he wanted home plugs for the computer networks. we had to forget it because it was totally not reliableit worked in a slot, and not in the next one. when it worked, it was not for a very long time.it seems that the wires where too long ?today I would use wifi modules, they are cheap and will work far better (and may be over a longer distance) in a house than a home plug.for me I rewired the mains when I bought my house 15 years ago, and took advantage of it to wire also ethernet in every room so ...