EEVblog #779 - How To Measure Product Battery Cutoff Voltage - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:36:33 am
content: Another in a series of battery tutorials, Dave explains how to correctly measure the battery cutout voltage of a product.And how to take internal resistance of a battery into account.And also a detailed response to a video from Batteriser claiming Dave is wrong in using a PSU to measure the battery cutoff voltage, and why this is complete folly.Full playlist of battery related videos is here:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHtj5Ubhx7govoBfNkyUO4Pp

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:10:07 am
content: I loved watching the vids on this one yesterday I think it was, and the teardown of perfectly good scam equipment, I wait for the van in my suburb 8-) I'll haggle so well that they will pay me !What I would love to see more of is how to hook up batteries to my arduino project with a solar panel or other power supply and have the arduino charge up it's own batteries which it runs from. There are billions of charger circuits and powered circuits but next to none that charge their own batteries like every appliance you buy seems to do. How can you do what a mobile can do, that is, charge the battery it runs on. I'm not asking you or anyone to design one, I'm just saying I would LOVE to see something like this, generally. An arduino with a little animation on it's LCD saying it is charging, or a solar powered one that can say how much power it has stored in it's own battery.The other thing is I'd like newbies to know that non-rechargeable batteries can be recharged at a much lower rate for about 6 times the life (or 6 times less environmental mess).Ahh, glad I got that off my chest. keep up the good work 8-)

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:22:00 am
content: Batteriser damage control, ie, make up anything to still con people.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:32:34 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 12, 2015, 10:10:07 amDid I do something like that in the PSU design series videos?

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:45:20 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 12, 2015, 10:32:34 amThank you, I will find them and find out.I have limited internet, and haven't looked over all your videos yet. I found your videos from the ones about Colin Mitchell. I built maybe 2 or 3 TEC-1's and a microcomp and many other items too. Great fun. Awesome interview too. I saw that alladins cave of desoldered parts, and wished I would set up a big harckerspace for everyone and find things like that. Ah, if only we had perfect health and 10 lifetimes.keep up the good work !

author: PeterL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:09:46 am
content: Nice BUT! (Baboon Under Test)I can't wait to see Batteroo's reaction to this one. Besides the annoying fact that they are probably gonna earn money with all their nonsense, this hole story it's quite amusing.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:24:14 am
content: You said it exactly why no one will put their name under it - they will be laughed out of the industry!You are all cowards who don't want to speak The Truth about the Great Battery Conspiracy, and instead you wave your stupid physics and ohm's law to obscure the truth.[sarcasm off]Seriously, that batteriser video is quite funny when watched as if it was a parody.Dead-pan humour have it's charm...I'd love to see this whole batteriser thing turn out to be one big PSA on "how gullible you people are".That would have a tremendous education value...We can dream, right?

author: PeterL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:26:55 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on August 12, 2015, 11:17:50 amHmmm, I have to be honest, this mistake was caused by the fact that English is a foreign language for me...But I see it now

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:29:26 am
content: Too much waffling in this video in my opinion. Not speaking on my own behalf, but regarding people who watched Batteriser's video and then found yours. They might just give up. You should have condensed it to 10 minutes tops.

author: sakujo7
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:55:47 am
content: Why didn't they show the batteriser making the monkey work again with those two batteries?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:56:22 am
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on August 12, 2015, 11:29:26 amYeah I know. I wanted it to be mostly tutorial, and the Batteriser ranting got a bit carried away in the end.I couldn't have been bothered to go back and redo it to make it shorter though, so it is what it is.Same can be said about my original debunking video, but it's a process thing, and I wanted to show the thought process. Same thing here. I hope it's valuable as a general tutorial video, and that was the real intent.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:59:25 am
content: Quote from: sakujo7 on August 12, 2015, 11:55:47 amLMAO good point, there was still a couple hundred % more claps left unused, batteriser to the rescue.

author: vlad777
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:11:08 pm
content: So they just clarified their claim about that 1.3 volts; they mean under no load.(What good is that for their device ,I don't know.)

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:12:02 pm
content: I can see the laboratory power supply tutorials, I don't think I explain very well. Here is a drawing of what I mean.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:13:03 pm
content: I think what they were trying to say was that, if you have a device with large peak currents, eg motors, they will lock up as soon as the battery cant handle the current peak any more.The powersupply will supply the peak current without a problem and power the device down to a low voltage. Whereas the battery will keep dipping past cutoff voltage as the peak current hits.Like if you had a device that tried to pull 10A from some AA's for 0.2S every second. It might stop working as soon as the batteries fresh-state ESR had disappeared with 90% capacity left in the battery.Which is of course true. But is a moot point because any attempt to boost the battery voltage in this situation will make the problem worse by trying to draw even higher peak current.The only thing that would extend the battery life in this situation is a capacitor/supercap to buffer the peak currents. They would be better off selling that to clip across a cell. No issues of quiescent current to deal with.That's the battery failure mode i see often in my logitech harmony remote control. When the batteries are getting down you only get a few repeated button presses before the mcu reboots from the IR tx led current burst.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: vlad777 on August 12, 2015, 12:11:08 pmYes. Several time now since I released my video they have finally admitted that their 1.3V claim is masured with the battery open circuit. Their entire product is based around this incorrect method. They explain it away as misunderstanding:Fromhttp://batteriser.com/faq/Quoteand from here:http://startupdope.com/the-batteriser-hype/Quote

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:30:02 pm
content: Where can you buy a 'Clapping Monkey'? My Agilent Electronic Load is out of calibration, and I am looking for a replacement. I would need a 0.1% monkey. Do they come with calibration certificates?I suppose the high end monkeys can hold the probes for you.A battery that measures 1.27V unloaded on a DMM is dead.They missed an opportunity to take the very same batteries and power the 'Standard Monkey' using the Batteriser.Showing the 'Standard Monkey' doesn't work with dead batteries, doesn't show that there is any energy left in the batteries.Jay_Diddy_B

author: vlad777
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:35:41 pm
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 12, 2015, 12:12:02 pmI'm guessing that when you plug the charger ,device switches to working off the charger plus it charges the batteries.Edit: Try searching for simple UPS (uninterrupted power supplies) circuits.Try Google images "ups schematic"... and find simple ones...

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:38:01 pm
content: I liked the play-by-play commentary on the Batteriser video in the second part - it really makes things obvious, especially when you point out how they didn't measure the voltage under load of those batteries.Did anyone else find the announcer's voice in the Batteriser video really annoying to listen to?

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:40:21 pm
content: Ironically some handy reference material to be found if you are prepared to probe a bit deeper.www.szkingkong.com

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:45:32 pm
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on August 12, 2015, 12:30:02 pmProbably because it doesn't work. The Batetrieser would have to draw the equivalent in power (+ conversion) in extra current, so it's even worse for the already near dead high ESR battery.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:53:06 pm
content: How dare you argue with results gathered using the Industry Standard Monkey!?(Great video Dave, keep em coming!)

author: EMC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 01:27:41 pm
content: Nice one; however, no mention of the financial backgroud. Also, no discussion of the stainless steel sleeve. Probably for good reason. Why isn't this sort of scam treated as a criminal activity.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 01:29:41 pm
content: This whole subject is entertaining, the Batteriser is an example of a product that seeks to take advantage of the general public's lack of knowledge when it comes to basic science. With that said; it is a time honored tradition to take advantage of the public's ignorance when hawking a new product.An informed public, is an empowered public.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 01:30:08 pm
content: This kind of video are really fun and hilarious. I really like all of them. I really like your palmfaces and your determination.Very, very nice are the pauses on the original Batteriser video with your comments; If I were that guy, I would run to hide me. I think that persons like those of Batteriser, deserve this kind of reply videos.p.s. At the first time, in their original video, I didn't see the "unused" soldering iron on the bench, it's obvious that it's all scripted