Professor Poll - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 05:04:38 pm
content: Do you prefer a good teacher with excellent understanding of fundamental concepts of the course, or someone who has no clue about teaching but they are very knowledgeable in broader areas beyond the scope of your course?For instance a good teacher vs. an aged scientist who talks to himself?Personally I always prefer the first especially for engineering/technical/science courses.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 05:07:07 pm
content: When you want a hamburger, do you prefer a cook who is very good at making hamburgers, or someone who has no clue about hamburgers but can make a really awesome pizza?

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 05:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 15, 2013, 05:07:07 pmI'm having hard time understanding your analogy but I think I answered this already, I prefer a teacher, not a burger chef.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 05:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on October 15, 2013, 05:31:01 pmI'm saying a professor with no clue about teaching is not suited for the job. A professor is a teacher, what the hell do you call a professor who can't teach? I'd say "incompetent". I don't care how good he might be at something else.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 05:47:41 pm
content: Unfortunately many, and sadly at expensive universities. I would not care if it's a free or cheap uni. But when we pay a lot and invest a lot and then end up having to self-study materials struggling to pass unrealistic hard exams and get barely pass marks. I believe professors should be regularly supervised by teaching specialists to make sure they are not talking to themselves or rehearsing stupid projector slides.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 15, 2013, 05:07:07 pmwhen you want a hamburgerdo you want a cook who can describe every ingredient in minute detail, including how to breed cows, but has never made a real hamburger ?do you want a cook who makes a really good hamburger and tells you substitutes and tips to make variations of it, how to make really good sauces , but can't explain how to breed cows.?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 15, 2013, 05:36:02 pmThe job of a professor is to show you what you need to know (and to do his research). Your job is to learn as much of what the professor told you you need to know, including filling in holes the professor apparently left out. On your own initiative. In whatever way suitable.A professor is not a teacher. Unless you live in Austria (not Australia). There the teachers of secondary schools are called professors. But the Austrians are anyhow a bit title-crazy. Tell them you are an engineer and they address you as "Mr. Engineer" and "Mr. Engineer c4757p" instead of just "Mr. c4757p" in polite company.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:31:15 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 15, 2013, 06:21:26 pmWell yes, that's what I meant by teaching. It's not the professor's job to just regurgitate facts and data and expect me to shove them into my head in the hour or two when I'm in his class, so I don't care if he can do that. But a professor does more than just list topics and say "you need to know these, now piss off and go learn them". He should be there to help students learn to understand the material. There's more to "what you need to know" than a list of topics, and sometimes people need somebody to point them in the right direction.Quote from: Bored@Work on October 15, 2013, 06:21:26 pmThat would drive meinsane. Not that I spend much time "in polite company"

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:37:22 pm
content: Do not go to Japan then........

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:38:30 pm
content: this alwyas reminds me of that scene in 'real genius'in the beginning of the year there is the teacher... as the year progresses student attendance dwindles and at the end there is just a tape recorder playing at the front for the 2 or 3 students in the class...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 06:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 15, 2013, 06:37:22 pmYeah, no kidding! I don't know why, but there's just something about "needless" formalities that irks me. Probably the whole "needless" thingIt just seems like an attempt to impress people without actually having anything impressive to do it with...Quote from: free_electron on October 15, 2013, 06:38:30 pmWait - you've been sitting in on my signals class?

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 07:21:22 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 15, 2013, 06:15:43 pmHow about a cook who knows how to breed different varieties of cows and how they were bred in the past, but also knows how to make the perfect hamburger (and many variations thereof)? And what if he was a senior research farmer at HP cattle farms back in the day?I've got a professor like that now. I've never encountered anything he doesn't know, either practical or theoretical. The man is pretty difficult to work with, but WOW is he good at what he does.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 07:31:00 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 15, 2013, 06:21:26 pmThat's why we end up with crappy education, students ranting about universities and high tuition fees. That's why we have now many people who believe university education is useless and you can learn on your own (since the job of professors is to read subject titles or a compressed table of content from a book and let the students fill in the holes)

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 07:47:07 pm
content: Professors have to be good skilled teachers. Well based on my experience here's a classification of university lecturers:A) Very good teaching skills with average knowledge and insights.B) Poor teaching skills but very good knowledge of the subject.C) Mr. PresenterD) Mr. PretenderClass A is not very common.Class B is not uncommon.The most awful and dangerous classes are C and D, you can get straight "F" as a result of the lecturer's poor teaching and limited understanding of the subject. They are the most common types.Now what's a presenter?Any professor even thinks of showing their old stinky slides and who just thinks avoiding getting their hands dirty with chalks. They read their notes, they mark their notes, they talk to themselves.Pretenders?They can disguise in class A, usually, but their epic failure will stink as soon as you get your final grades. Some of them, most dangerous type, can tell you from first exams what type of psycho's they are.BTW "researchers" my ar&se.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:07:47 pm
content: I did have one lecturer with a scary teaching method of breaking off in mid sentence at the end of a period and the next day carrying on from the same point again. Even if he was in the middle of an equation on the board ( maths teacher) the next day he would ask for the last few lines then continue as if no time had passed. This from a guy who often got lost on his way to his office.......

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:16:39 pm
content: Well, you can sit there in class with the expectation "teach me", "teach me", "teach me". And if the professor doesn't shove it up your behind you can lament your fate after class, labeling the professor a presenter or pretender or whatever.Or you can sit there in class with the attitude "lets see what this guy tells me I should know", and after class you go out to learn what you are supposed to know. By, for example, heaven forbid, reading a book. Or two.In the end doing the second thing works out better for you. Uni is not school. But hey, it is your time and your life. Fine with me if you want to waste it by insisting that professors shove it up your behind.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:22:41 pm
content: If what you're studying can be shoved up your behind during class, you need to study something more challenging, like basket weaving or first grade arithmetic. Of course you need to do your own research outside of class. But for the particularly difficult topics, it is important for many people to have somebody to help them learn it. Not everybody learns well from a book.I don't see what problem you always have with teaching. It's not like the students are whining for somebody to do their work for them. (OK, some are... but we're not discussing those.) But there is nothing at all wrong with a direct exchange of knowledge. I can learn from a book, or from a human, and there's no reason one is inferior to the other.I'm not in school to occupy a chair in front of a knowledgeable windbag with more important things to do. If I need to find out "what I need to know", there are much less expensive ways for me to do that. I'm there in the hopes that somebody can actually help me come to understand things which I struggle with.Learning and knowledge don't have to be "every man for himself".

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:23:31 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 15, 2013, 08:07:47 pmSince he's a math professor, I think he's trying to show a real life example of the concept of continuity/discontinuity.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 15, 2013, 08:07:47 pmI have had more than one like that, when I was studying math. Must be a math thing..... for some reason, I always fell in love with the quirky ones like that, whether or not they were any good at anything else...

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 08:31:03 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 15, 2013, 08:16:39 pmSo I need to go to uni, spend 5 years or so, and pay the price of a new brand house, only to know from a grey haired ar&se professor what topics we need to study, which are already on the TOC of a book, and finally get "F". Wow!And you come to the class and expect from your students to fill in your "hole" you exposed to them because of pure laziness and poor lecturing skills???

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 10:44:42 pm
content: I want an instructor that you can tell genuinely loves the subject he's teaching.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 03:21:27 am
content: I want a professor who has thorough understanding of the subject they teach, and are creative in delivering the concepts leaving no holes to students. Unfortunately but true, they leave many holes we later find in the exams or real life. The latter we can fill with no hurt.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 03:22:06 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 15, 2013, 10:44:42 pmA thousand times, this.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 03:24:24 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 15, 2013, 10:44:42 pmNice one.Hey Dave, they are talking about you (and many others on the forum)!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 05:13:11 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 16, 2013, 03:22:06 amSome of the worst instructors I have seemed to just be burnouts from the industry that couldn't get a job.They taught like they were just plain tired of everything about it.

author: niflheimer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 06:56:07 am
content: In uni I had all types of teachers you mentioned . There was one class dealing with system statistics and reliability who , despite being very good in his specialty couldn't teach to save his life. It was probably the hardest course I had since I was almost impossible to learn anything from what he was teaching.On the other hand I had a class on electrical engineering for power stations and plants that was being teached by a 65 years old engineer with more than 40 years of experience working in the field. It was a breeze - probably the class I've enjoyed most since for the more difficult things he would just wipe out the blackboard , sketch how they used to do it in practice , explain why and how they would mess up and if you still had questions he would just take you to the nearest power station and show you what was it about.You can't always get everything , but when you get one who both knows his job and can explain it well ...

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 08:26:08 am
content: To some extent, it depends on the level of the subject being taught. Some professors know their subject so well, that they forget the stumbling blocks that are likely to trip up students. Especially in classes like calculus, where the basics are very far removed from the research.And PLEASE spare me from teachers who seem to think it is their job to "weed out" some fraction of the class who is "not suitable" for the major (or perceived major. To this day I have suspicions that I should have taken the "easier" chemistry class, to be less grouped with the pre-med students. Sigh.)

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 02:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 15, 2013, 10:44:42 pmTo correct you:I want an instructor that you can tell genuinely lovesTEACHINGthe subject he's teaching.I don't give a fa&t if he loves quantum mechanics or semiconductor physics, I only care if he is skillful and creative in delivering the basic concepts to students without leaving them with "holes" they have to figure out themselves after getting F's.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 04:41:14 pm
content: What an impressive assembly ofGeneration Spoon-feed. Or should I writeGeneration "No child left behind"? All I hear is "I want", "They have to", "They must","I", "I", "I", "I" ... Yeah, and I want to win the lottery.The thing is, life is not fair. You often don't get what you want, and you instead have to deal with what you get and make the best out of it.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 04:47:39 pm
content: Of course you do. That doesn't mean you can't have a discussion about what you would prefer.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 07:08:47 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 16, 2013, 04:41:14 pmTrue only the first sentence.

author: Noize
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 11:15:53 pm
content: This guy should have been the first black president.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 04:04:27 am
content: Since it's related, just search for Academic Engineering/Science/Math books and see how they are overpriced. Please I don't want to hear it's how many pages, hardcover costs a lot, that publishing company is expensive, or the pages are colorful and full of figures and drawings, because I can show you same publisher, even thicker books, same quality or better, hardcover, full of colors and illustrations and they are less than 25% of the price. Guess why? That ridiculously highly priced book is required for university courses. Obviously it's Academia or the higher education system which is corrupt. Over $150 sometimes $300...wow give me a break. So if I'm pay per semester for total of 4 courses around $3000 add to that $200 books for each course, total of $800 only for books, close to 30% of the semester tuition fee??? And we cannot complain about ho bad many professors are???

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 04:14:40 am
content: The cost of a new textbook is perfectly justified. You try to write one.However, the effort to stop students from buying used textbooks needs to stop. I am sick to death of having idiotic, useless and poorly designed online quiz/homework systems foisted upon me just to force me to buy a new textbook which has a license key. And sure, I can buy a key by itself... but "key + used book" is often sickeningly close to "new book". I am sick to death of professors requiring brand-new textbook editions in subjects where no new material has been generated in decades. Shove it up your collective ass...

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 05:38:19 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 18, 2013, 04:14:40 amThis is true, the only one reason for the high price I can think of.QuoteI disagree. If a new book price is justified for the given reason, which makes sense, then their efforts to sop the used book business is completely justified. They have to protect their effort and investment in those high quality books. Nevertheless the used book market contributes to the high costs of new books. Otherwise how can they make money?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 06:05:29 am
content: I don't care how they can make money. If nobody could buy a used car, the car companies would make lots more money, wouldn't they? But it is none of their damn business if I want to resell my car, and yes, I will complain if they intentionally make it difficult, or worse, bribe the car dealer not to take my car.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 06:36:55 am
content: To the people saying that it is the professor's job to be a teacher, and that is what we are paying all this money for, that is simply no longer true in science and engineering at most large universities in the US. Tuition and (for state universities) state funding, as high as it is, is only a fraction of the operating budget of the university. Science and engineering departments are funded by outside research funding from the federal government and private industry. For every $1 of research funding a professor gets, the university gets $0.50 (the exact amount varies). For a very successful researcher that can be hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for the university, not even counting possible secondary revenue from e.g., patent royalties generated by the research. This pays for a lot of things: it pays infrastructure costs like buildings and electricity, it pays salaries for administrative staff, it pays for shared facilities like libraries and network infrastructure, and so forth. And it pays the share that the humanities departments can't afford to pay because they don't get outside funding on any kind of scale like that. So while university administrators and admissions workers may claim that the university values excellence in undergraduate teaching, that is only true to the extent that it doesn't conflict with getting the research funding that the department and the entire university depend on for their continued operation. Your tuition is not what pays their salary. It is a miracle that so many professors do care as much as they do about teaching. If you don't like it, go to a small college that is actually focused on undergraduate teaching, and be prepared to pay for it. That is just the reality of the situation.So yes, I think that professors should A) know the subject they are teaching very well. That does not mean that the professor has to know everything related to the subject. For instance an EE professor does not necessarily need to know how to solder surface mount electronics to teach you circuits, nor does he need that to research new integrated circuit technology (or whatever). It would certainly be nice if the professor were excited about the topic, but lets face it: there are some things that are just boring but you have to learn them anyway if you want to get to the good stuff. Someone has to teach those topics.I have definitely had professors that were bad teachers, but I have also experienced that a lot of the time when people complain about bad professors they weren't willing to put the effort in themselves, or they just weren't talented enough at the subject in question. For whatever reason they just wanted to sit passively in the lecture for 3 hours a week and get a good grade.Here is a one question pop quiz for anyone who has had a bad professor:1) Did you ask questions in class and in office hours?If not, they you actually can't have any idea if the professor was bad or not because you are a bad student.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 07:38:15 am
content: I've never had a professor who excelled at teaching and wasn't also passionate and knowledgeable about the subject they were teaching.I have had one or two professors who were passionate/knowledgable about the content but just weren't cut out for lecturing. I can sympathize with them as long as they are trying their hardest and their written content (lecture slides etc) is laid out in a logical format.More often than not the ones that suck at teaching also have poor knowledge of the subject, just don't seem to want to be there and their slides just look like someone shotgunned a variety of formulas into a PDF document.At the end of the day, you can't really be angry at the professors because they managed to get the job, you should be angry at the university for employing such shithouse lecturers. You can't also expect to be spoon fed everything you need to know at uni either.Quote from: Stonent on October 16, 2013, 05:13:11 amAgreed.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 02:31:29 pm
content: ejeffrey, maybe some of my comments weren't worded carefully enough to give the impression - but I do agree with everything you said. The answer to your question is absolutely "yes" - I always attend office hours when I feel like I need help understanding things. The fact that large numbers of students will criticize the education that is available when they have not tried any of it has always baffled me...I never pull the "you must teach well because I pay your salary" line, I'm not that arrogant. Still, learning is why I am there and what I paid for, even if it's not why they're paid, and I am going to demand what I paid for. If the professors don't like it, they should find an employer who does not take students...

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:48:20 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on October 18, 2013, 06:36:55 amI'm tired of hearing the same BS about our tuition fees contribute to nothing...etc. and research costs...and go to undergraduate focused college if u don't like it...So it's always the fault of students maybe if there is more than half of the class who get below average grades, with class average below D grade.Lets be realistic here, I don't give a stinky damn fart to what BS research work they do, I go to university to learn, I see professors as teachers when they are in classes. I pay a lot I expect a lot. and piss off with their office hours. I don't care for this BS, it's not enough for every student, we have life too. We don't have time to figure out how to fill in holes left by bad teaching skills. And if we ever figured it out it can be wrong.And yeah a professor teaching electrical engineering courses have to know how to at least know how to solder, it's the language of electrical engineering. Like in mathematics, I expect the math teacher to be able to use pen and paper.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on October 18, 2013, 03:48:20 pmUm...

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 10:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on October 18, 2013, 03:48:20 pmIt is just reality. It isn't that your tuition fees contribute nothing, is is that research is what pays the bills, so it is what gets the highest priority. You don't have to like it -- that is what reality means.QuoteBut you aren't willing to put any effort into it?QuoteIf you aren't asking the professor questions when you don't understand something, then you fail at being a student. Full stop. Professors cannot read your mind -- they don't know when you don't understand.Honestly you sound like a reasonable smart person who got good marks in high school with no effort because the material was easy and geared for a universal audience. You are now expecting to get through university the same way. That is just not a reasonable expectation. You are now in a class of people who A) went to university and B) are selected for majoring in EE or a related field. That means the average ability and difficulty is much higher. You may have to work hard. Deal with it.QuoteSolder is not the language of electrical engineering. If you think that you have a deep misunderstanding of the field, and you should rethink what it is and why it is going to.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 03:30:45 am
content: QuoteAnd honestly you sound like a professor who keeps defending the system for their own advantage. You really believe that high schools sell marks to spoiled students who put zero effort and intelligence and then they expect the same at university??? What about get rid of professors with average teaching ability because university courses are more demanding???Why do we have marginally different class average of same course but taught by different professors? Because some professors put no effort in their work to teach students properly, they delivered nothing but farts. Students have to work harder and do their own study this is something out of question, but the point is why some professors screw it for students because of poor teaching and ignorance?I could go on with arguing but one thing I can do is ask a simple question about some basic principles in EE and I will expect billion different answers from different graduate people. Why? They either think they know the concept, or they got it wrong on their own trying to fill in the holes their professors left. And no it's not Ohm's law.Anyway this was my favorite hobby confusing some professors and giving them tough time.This is part of the learning process.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 03:40:18 am
content: QuoteYeah I see where you come from, my first assumption is true, professor. ;-)If you don't solder you will invent nothing but papers. Now tell me are you an EE or a fiction writer?

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 05:06:16 am
content: QuoteHow much soldering do you think was involved in designing the latest generation of intel CPUs? How about building a cell phone or ipad? Developing OLED or e-Ink displays? Next to zero.I am neither an EE nor a fiction writer, nor am I a professor. I am a research scientist at a university developing superconducting electronics devices. I design, layout, and test superconducting integrated circuits. While I do know how to solder and I do so at home on blinky-light arduino projects at work I very rarely solder. I will occasionally do a quick bodge if I am in a hurry. For anything complicated I get a technician or an outside assembly house. I know they will do it faster and more importantly better than I would, and I would rather not waste time debugging a circuit i hand assembled because I got a resistor in the wrong place. I could easily do my job without knowing how to solder, mostly I do it because it is fun -- some of my colleagues cannot solder, others are really good at it.I know a lot of professional EEs, and this is fairly typical of the corporate world too. EE is a big field, and you certainly have people who work at small shops and have to be a jack-of-all trades, and you have old curmudgeons who have been hand soldering their precision analog circuits for 50 years and aren't about to stop now, and particularly in RF/microwave prototyping you still have to test a lot of stuff by hand, but a large number of professional EEs haven't picked up a soldering iron in 20 years. If anything more professors solder regularly than corporate EEs.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 07:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on October 19, 2013, 05:06:16 am

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 07:11:57 pm
content: I'm not sure what you're facepalming at here. He's raising some valid points...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 07:28:17 pm
content: Let's put this in a slightly different context. I'm a chemical engineer by profession. We deal with pipes and valves, reactors and separators, pumps and compressors, and all the other stuff that gets joined up with piping. Do you think I can pick up a welding torch and weld pipes together? Do you think I ever have to do this as part of my job? Short answer: no. (Would I like to know how to do it? Yes. But for enjoyment and personal satisfaction, not out of necessity.)Hands on mechanical assembly, construction and fabrication is not normally part of the engineer's job. What may be part of the engineer's job is to be familiar with these processes and how they are performed. To be familiar with what the applicable quality standards are and the test and inspection protocols needed for sign-off of the work and safe operation afterwards.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 04:36:29 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 19, 2013, 07:28:17 pmI'm not saying an EE has to know how to operate equipment at IC fabrication facility, to create a multi-layer PCB, to do micro SMD soldering, wire a house from the power station to the mains, fix a CRT TV, or assemble a cellphone...it's just one basic skill required to test your research ideas.And when you are a chemical engineer but cannot do your chemical experiment with safety measurement, sorry you are far away from being a chemical engineer.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 05:48:16 am
content: Chemical engineer does not need to know how to weld, that is the responsibility of the mechanical engineer or the process engineer. The chemical engineer is just going to have to check that the final designed system on paper is likely to work to the original specs after the design to manufacture stage. The civil engineer is the one who has to actually make it physical and put the giant kit together, and do so in a way that is manufacturable and where you can get to all the parts without having to have a few cranes to dismantle walls, move tanks and lift roofs to change a $10 transmitter.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 06:03:59 am
content: Well, no; the welding is the responsibility of the pipe fitters, who are engaged by appropriate contractors to do the construction work.Civil engineers do the design work for the footings, foundations, plot preparation and buildings. Mechanical engineers do the design work for the piping and mechanical equipment like vessels, pumps and compressors. Instrumentation and control engineers design the bits that do the measurement and control along with all the signalling and control systems. In all branches of engineering the practitioners are working in offices with diagrams, drawings, data sheets and computers. They will go on site to supervise the work and check that the contractors are following the plans, but engineers don't wield tools. The engineer is the one in the hi-vis jacket and hardhat holding a clipboard or an armful of drawings.

author: W8LV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 08:21:05 am
content: I always preferred the Professors who had no clue about teaching but were brilliant. Until it came time to take an exam from them! That was always the most difficult part of it for me! The "strictly by the syllabus" types, sure, I could figure out what they wanted in that blue book or exam. But still, they weren't "easy A's" not for me, anyway. That being said, the ones who were the "so called" impractical absent minded ones? They always commanded my respect, and looking back at them, I still do. I was lucky to have them. And they weren't absent minded. Instead, they were the ones who challenged my thinking and Thank God we have them. Ideas are more valuable than gold, and trading mere gold in order to learn from them was more than a fair exchange. My employer was looking for my credentials when I graduated. But I always felt and still do that what I learned from THOSE so called "absent minded" Professors was more valuable than the credentials, by far.Best Regards from W8LV in Pickaway County, Ohio, USA.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 06:42:18 pm
content: Got your points. So the university is a place where you need to self-teach yourself and figure it out on your convenience. You are challenged with exams that are at way harder level than what your professor can teach you. It's a place where majority of you struggle for years to feel in the end they are below average performers compared to a quite few students. They will feel they are below the standards of their major demands.Well fine I can then teach myself any major I like and avoid paying for years of torture, and in both cases I will have to figure it out by myself.BTW you guys love paper work sooooooooooo much. This is not so helpful in real world.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 07:08:33 pm
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on October 20, 2013, 06:42:18 pmVery doubtful. You give every impression of being a brat who has some maturing to do.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 07:42:25 pm
content: QuoteHuh?Before my soldering iron is being turned on I alwaysneedto do Paper-Work. As long as it's not something Basic/Boring someone could do right out of the head, most of the time I develop on paper or Simu. And I know nearly no one in pre-development (or product-design), who is different.Have you been at a University, how old are you? No offence, but I have the feeling that you have a quite wrong impression of the typical "Engineer-Work".

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 09:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: Tepe on October 20, 2013, 07:08:33 pmI don't care what you think. You are probably either one: underage wannabee EE but cannot for natural limitations, or an old fart who never did something useful in their life. In both cases you are struggling hard to no avail. I'm not surrreee why you need to use cheap low-class street homeless words (and this is only behind the scree where you hide) to express your pain in your anus whenever someone express their opinion.You can always take the hose and shove it up deep in your fat butt and it will cool it down.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 09:52:49 pm
content: I have a rule which has almost never failed me: in any argument, the guy hurling more insults is the fool.Prove me wrong.Edit - ah yes, I see you proved me wrong! Nothing says "not a fool" like some barely intelligible, ranty word salad followed by "none of your damn business"!Why don't you end this thread and go post something productive?

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 09:55:22 pm
content: Quote from: DL8RI on October 20, 2013, 07:42:25 pmI think most of you guys have no idea what engineering is all about, because you never had a real engineering job. Most of you are hobbyists coming out of their tiny lab with a blinking LED and screaming world I'm an engineer. Some are "professors" not really but desperate teachers.Scientists? my ass. MAYBEEE sales representatives, sales managers, ...Well how old am I? NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS.University? Maybe...but it's NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 10:14:27 pm
content: Bold and underlined, nice to support your argument... But sorry, you don't impress me. Impress me with profound arguments but not with insults or bold letters.A little Edit, just in case:My Post really didn't mean any offence!I had it more than one time that first semester (or pupils) had a very different view of an EE than reality. So I didn't mean to insult you with my post, but your answer is quite... uh... "eye opening"BTW, a good, really good sales Engineer is someone quite awesome. You have to get solutions for your customers right out of your pocket and present them, even if they are custom solutions. You may not be a developer of the thing you sell, but you have to understand it maybe even deeper than the people developing the parts. The "nerdy" guys look from above on them, but it can be a challenging job. At least in Germany, I don't know what sales-people do overseas. The culture of Engineering is very different between countries.and no, I'm not one of them, normally I'm a customer

author: peteroakes
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 10:53:45 pm
content: An instructor, teacher, lecturer whatever is not much good if they can not get the point across, I know in some cases it is their role to guide rather than teach but they still need to be able to captivate the audience when needed, I have had a couple of teachers in the past that failed almost complete classes year after year, not because the teacher did not know the subject, they just could not teach it. I think it takes a special kind of person to be able to firstly get up there and even talk to a class, secondly have a good knowledge of the subject, thirdly be able to get it across to the students in a way they can understand and lastly, be up to date. Many of my electronics and computer instructors where well versed and could teach (quite passionate about the subjects too), trouble was they where like a decade out of date because they had been teaching so long and had not kept up to date, so to answer the question, good teacher or a person with good knowledge, well its not that simple, I would go for the teacher with teaching skills and a little out of date over a bad teacher, if that was my only choice. now for kicks, this is a link to a scientist that is very skilled at teaching, has excellent knowledge and a very unique way of presenting, I hope you agree and enjoyhttp://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_on_everything.html

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 05:28:36 am
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on October 20, 2013, 09:55:22 pmI just needed to quote this in full, before our baby has second thoughts and deletes his posting.This, kids, is why we old guys don't think very high about the spoon-feed gits who happen to come out of university these days and want to be engineers. Imagine these people in the job the first time there is trouble ...

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 05:47:51 am
content: OP won't be editing his post for a little while, He's taking a short break.Perhaps he'll return with an improved attitude.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 07:38:05 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 21, 2013, 05:28:36 amYeah, but why be difficult when with just a bit of extra effort you can be a complete asshole...? Seriously - usually behavior like our friend's is a sure sign of attitude and delusions of adequacy masking incompetence and/or lack of talent.Not a career longevity move though. Seen quite a few of this kind of prima donnas over the years and booted a lot of them out the door too, for the best of those remaining.Fortunately not all youngsters are like that. On a personal level - next week i have the chance to re-hire into my team a young SW guy who worked for me last year on assignment. Recent Uni graduate, modest guy, not making a number of himself. Turns out good work in time and is steady under pressure. Doesn't have all the answers yet but quick to learn. He is almost there and will be in a couple more years.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 08:26:02 am
content: Hi,don't be too harsh, I'm one of these "Kids" toLast year of my Master degree... (Ok, I'm already working besides my studies...)QuoteI would say most of us are not like that (at least I hope so...). Most graduated EEs are over 25 (e.g. I will be 28) and therefore should be somewhat "cooled down" a little bit.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 08:54:43 am
content: Sure, i perhaps displayed an attitude of my own there, a bit. To be honest, i find most of the younger people committed to their goals, hardworking and rather smart, actually. At least those i meet in person which of course is a pre-filtered sample.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 05:27:57 pm
content: Back to the subject...Some of my favorite classes were taught by enthusiastic grad students or "guests from industry."From various reports, it's not uncommon for a class with a poor "professor" to be rescued by good (grad student) TAs...Ive been taking some online classes (mostly CS.) Or trying to, anyway. An interesting experience; kids today are learning a lot that I never learned (and never needed to use, either, actually.) Coding up an implementation of Dijkstra's Algorithm using priority queues implemented as c++ objects is swell, but it won't help me flash my LEDs.

author: W8LV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 01:47:28 am
content: I Hope you change your mind and go to College. It is what you make of it, as in all walks of life, "yes" you encounter turds from time to time.. But the True Gems (both Professors and other students) that you will meet will, I am sure make attending worth it for you. I was (and still am) lucky to know the people I met there. I hope you give it a go! ;-)All The Best!Best Regards from W8LV in Pickaway County, Ohio, USA.