Microsoft: Win 10 will be the last Windows OS - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 09:22:44 am
content: http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2015/05/08/windows-10-to-be-last-version-of-windows/Boom!Another suicide move? Let´s see how the market will react...PS: I am still happy with Win 7... they lost me with win 8.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 09:46:23 am
content: Well we're screwed on this one I think. It's the best move ever for them, but not for the consumers and businesses even if they think it is.From what I can see (and we're all over it as we've got a ton of their platforms deployed):1. No one buys an OS anyway so forget shrink wrapped upgrades. It's going to ship on OEM kit and as a sweetner for people with Win7+ as a free upgrade.2. It's a skeleton OS in its basic form that will require paid subscription options so if you want RDP, disk encryption etc it's going to be tiered and cost regular amounts. From what I've seen this will amortise over 3 years to about the same as a shrink wrapped license. However they used to have value for 10-11 years so this is a 3-3.8x cost increase over that time.3. Ships with Edge as the primary browser, which is an abysmal browser - there is no plugin support so you're stuck with ads and the like. Some of the built in apps have ads as well.4. Everything is cloud focused. You can't remove half of the cloud stuff from the technical preview fast ring even with GPOs and registry frigs. Plus they nag you to sign in using their SSO system or federated active directory in Azure.5. Everything is being pushed into "modern apps" which gives them sales control. You can't sideload modern apps on your own kit at all so it's store only. Plus you need to use their SSO to log into the store.6. There is still win32 support but it's considered legacy and the future is uncertain from what I heard from a guy I know who works there. Most of the modern (WinRT) stuff is built on it but there is no guarantee it will live on in the future.7. It pretty much requires a periodic internet connection, even on W10 embedded from what I can see. That is a no go for a lot of applications.8. APIs are moving to a rolling model like Android. So we're going to see lots of breaking crud down the line.9. EFI secure boot bypass is now optional by the vendors so a vendor can choose to only allow signed bootloaders and EFI images as well now. Bye bye Linux support.10. Licensing costs on the server-side are favoring Azure so they want control over everything. IT teams aren't going to be able to justify on-site costs for things any more resulting in drive to "the cloud".Basically this is a migration to a subscription model, their own mandated SSO, regular arse-buggery, planned obsolescence and worryingly totalitarian control of your system wrapped up in a layer of marketing. Oh plus they worked out your data is more valuable than your $$ so they want that too. In fact the marketing is hideous as they're open sourcing loads of fairly insignificant things at the moment and keeping APIs moving fast so they're in control.This is nothing but a fundamental setback of the entire IT industry.It's absolutely depressing for those of us having to work with this shit. The very worrying thing is that the majority of people are sucking it up like it's the best thing ever so they're slowly hanging themselves.To be honest I'd like to see the EU step in on this one.Edit: actually the worst thing. If you encrypt your disk with a paid subscription and they feck up their billing (which they did with our Office 365 sub), what happens? Does BitLocker suddenly refuse to work? There's nothing but bad here.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 09:49:36 am
content: Quote from: zucca on May 11, 2015, 09:22:44 amI'm guessing this at worst will have no adverse effect on them, and fixing how updates on Windows works should have been done before the 90s ended.QuoteI have 7 and 8.1 on machines, if it wasn't for the lack of a start menu I'd much prefer 8.1 over 7.Quote from: smjcuk on May 11, 2015, 09:46:23 amAh, I did not know that...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 10:02:30 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on May 11, 2015, 09:49:36 amI'm just the opposite, in the process of migrating 2 PC's to 8.1 from 7.I can be without the Start menu for the few commonly used programs, just tether shortcuts to the taskbar, then look on the apps screen for the stuff less often used.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 10:02:52 am
content: windows 7 was the last OS i willingly moved to, windows 8 has yet to grow on me enough, but from smjcuk's description, sounds like i'll be hanging around this level for a while,I will admit the marketing began to crawl under my skin earlier,

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 10:24:48 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 11, 2015, 10:12:16 amActually I think that has just been ignored now. They should allow different identity systems, stores and clouds to be easily integrated as well as allowing people to deploy what they like to their systems otherwise isn't that a monopolistic position again?

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 12:34:29 pm
content: For normal users, rolling releases are fine. You get the new cool features as they're released, and there's no huge OMG-everything-changes moments. But I can't imagine that Microsoft's corporate customers will stand for it. At the very least I imagine that they will have to do yearly roll-up releases that pack everything released so far into one, testable package.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 12:45:48 pm
content: Quote from: andersm on May 11, 2015, 12:34:29 pmIf the deal is to get the new stuff without paying a new license I can live with it: Apple style?OMG moments will arrive, I bet my head on this.I hope they can provide a way to roll back an upgrade (which even that will probably not work reliably)...@smjcuk: thanks very interesting feedback.

author: funkyant
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 02:33:35 pm
content: I loved Win 7, hated Win 8, was releived when Win 8.1 started getting better, and now have been running Win 10 for months and absolutely love it. They are not doing tiered versions or paid content and it will be a free upgrade to legitimate owners of every MS OS from 7 up.On top of that any app that runs on Win 10 will run on a Windows Phone, will run on a Tablet, Will run on an X Box.How can they lose?

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 02:52:57 pm
content: Quote from: funkyant on May 11, 2015, 02:33:35 pmOut of everyone I know only 2 have had a Windows Phone, both migrated after less than 6 months. I haven't come across anybody who chooses to use a Windows tablet. Users and devs in that space prefer Android and iOS, Windows Phone came too late to the party and this won't change that.QuoteLovely, just what I want, Excel on a console...And also I don't want to imagine how something where the dev has put no thought into phones/tablets/overpricedlowendpcinanXbox1 looks and feels on them, the ones where they have will be bad enough.

author: funkyant
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 02:56:07 pm
content: Yes, but MS just bought Cyanogen - the most popular Android Mod, and the Surface Pro is hands down the best Tablet I've ever used.MS haters can be haters, but I predict big things coming for Microsoft with Windows 10.And fortunately the devs at MS have a lot better ideas than you when it comes to running apps on a console :pOnly time can settle the argument

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:02:39 pm
content: Free upgrades... How can they lose...They can't in the short term.That's the idea, to get you on the cloud/subscription teat, and you're tied for life.

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:08:56 pm
content: Input and display devices for an increasing number of non professional users are tablets, the OS is often irrelevant, storage in the cloud <puke> or local, wirelessly accessed NAS becoming normal.The OS market will be different by the time W7 updates cease in 2020 but by how much is anyones guess. Yes Win 10 at this stage is 'free' and if I didn't have to install Win 10 on the desktop to use Win 10 on a Raspberry Pi 2 I might have even given it a try but I have little free time for play nor any intention of messing up my existing desktops, laptops and notebooks.I can see that many will not pay for a subscription to an OS just as many won't upgrade from XP or whatever until their device is terminally broken. I for one currently expect to buy a shrinkwrapped package with physical media once, use it for at least five years and have free security updates. At the current consumer cost level that works out at around 20 pounds a year per device running W7 Pro until end of life. I'mneveran early adopter, so if in five years time they can come at or under that target for Win 10, with all the features of W7 Pro, with proven stability and guaranteed usage offline when the ADSL line / 3G / 4G networks are down theymighthave a customer. I'd never pay to use MS Office though, if they offered Word Perfect or Lotus 123 I might consider itI've still got 98SE, XP SP3 and W2K deployed in installations used on a regular basis, some hardware 20 years old used once a week . I've certainly no intention of upgrading them and only in the past year or so started using W7 on the desktop / laptop about halfway through the Microsoft lifecycle.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: funkyant on May 11, 2015, 02:56:07 pmThat was an April fools...QuoteEven if it is it won't help if people don't use them. And TBH it's not really a tablet anyway.QuoteWhat makes you think I'm an "MS hater?" I can see it doing very well. On PCs...QuoteWell of course they do, I have no idea how or why you would want to. Well apart from connecting a keyboard and trying to run PC programs on a smartphone APU. I also can't see how they can open up the platform like that without licensees getting pissed. A link to their plans so far would be nice though as you obviously know what some of their ideas are?And I was on about the devs of 3rd party programs, not MS's devs or the mobile apps. I can see mobile apps working fine on a console.QuoteWhat argument?

author: funkyant
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 03:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on May 11, 2015, 03:14:35 pmRead aboveEdit: Just to clarify to anybody else reading this thread. Here are some facts with sources:https://cyngn.com/press/cyanogen-announces-strategic-partnership-with-microsofthttp://www.wired.com/2015/04/microsoft-google-cyanogen/http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/16/microsoft-apps-cyanogen-android/http://www.techtimes.com/articles/30110/20150201/microsoft-invest-cyanogenmod-what-mean-google.htm

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 04:05:46 pm
content: Quote from: funkyant on May 11, 2015, 02:56:07 pmBig things? A big decline you mean. I'm seeing more and more Apples and Linux desktop machines at customers. People only buy Windows for legacy software support. That is not a place where you want to be as a supplier!

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 04:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: funkyant on May 11, 2015, 03:49:33 pmNone of them say anything about MS buying Cyanogenmod, a partnership isn't a buyout. And TBH this is more likely either a case of them edging their bets for when Windows Phone/(mobile) dies a death, or just a way for them to advertise MS services to Android users.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 04:44:39 pm
content: First thing that comes to mind - how would all the anykeymen fix computers now that you can't just "reinstall Windows" as the universal solution to every problem?What about all the people who pay $30 per month per 3Gb of internet, or worse?Maybe people will fix the big problems - there will be stable snapshot builds made by enthusiasts and cleaned up of all the crap, but a product which relies on such people for survival won't live long, i guess.MS did lose the mobile market, where they were dominant what feels like just a few years ago - WinCE was a great OS from the developer point of view, and a good thing to use.That they can lose the PC market is very much a possibility.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on May 11, 2015, 02:52:57 pmI know someone who uses Microsoft Surface.That thing looks great - you can draw on it with a pressure-sensitive stylus. Easy to take notes.Maybe it's just a nice app, no idea what the rest of it is like to use.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 05:03:02 pm
content: Surfaces are fine until they break. We have a few dead ones. They're VERY easy to kill.

author: Johndi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 07:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on May 11, 2015, 04:44:39 pmFrom the perspective of developers and geeky folk, the old WinCE/Windows mobile base was awesome, except consumers hated it, and by far they are the largest driver of mobile device consumption. Having said that, I missed the old Windows Mobile platform and I loved it to death. I made the jump to Android when it came time a couple years back to move from my samsung blackjack. Course, I am now looking back at the new Windows mobile platform and considering making the switch back.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 07:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: Johndi on May 11, 2015, 07:08:46 pmThis. I wrote a whole POD system on windows mobile (C++) still used to this day by thousands of people. Yet here I sit on an Android phone

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 09:05:32 pm
content: Going release-less is QA nightmare. I can't imagine how they suppose this would work, especially that Windows Update is ridiculously badly designed.Anyway, I'm hoping that their opensourcing efforts will allow other platforms to run Windows software with ease without any actual Windows, and beside developers are already aiming for multiplatform compatibility even in gaming...Mac OS is no better at all btw, with all the cloud bullshit. It's back to Linux. We just need to make sure that Canonical/Ubuntu doesn't make a mess of that space too. (Someone really needs to punch their CEO in the face and finally flush Mir down the toilet.)