Newbie Mom/Son Team Progress - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 07:09:04 am
content: The forum community has been awesome to my Thomas and I. Have a look at our image album below. We will update a few times a week with our projects and gifts/donations!https://imgur.com/a/enX4YWe just received an Intermittent LED kit from xrunner, Thank you!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 08:03:15 am
content: Looks like you two deserve each otherA few observations that may or may not be relevant to you...I was a couple of years older when I started with something similar to that kit. It came with practical "build it" instructions and some theoretical "how it works" instructions. I didn't understand most of the theory, and found that a little frustrating. Nonetheless, the simpler circuits were invaluable. To start with, good = simple and quick, and good = copy and extend.A major difference between "then" and "now" how to learn. "Then" information was scarce, you probably had to wait weeks for the library to get the book, and the book might or might not be helpful. You learned to scour any information source to glean as much understanding as possible. "Now" is the polar opposite: there is so much information that a prime skill is speedily determining which 90% toignore.I also built other, simple, things from scrap. One example, inspired by seeing Tim Berners-Lee doing it, was to build a "burglar alarm". It was only a battery, a bulb, a buzzer and some wire running around the skirting board to a couple of doors. When the door opened some wire/metal contacts touched each other and the buzzer sounded or the bulb turned on. I learned a lot about voltage, current, circuits, and reliability engineeringLater on I added a CdS light-dependent resistor and electro-mechanical relay; nowadays you could use a photodiode/photo transistor and LED.I also had a space where I could leave a train set erected. That was good for planning and implementing many simple circuits using only what was to hand or which I could afford with pocket money. I became well-recognised at the local hardware and wood offcuts store!Things such as the Lego Next robots would have occupied the size of a house; if they had existed then I would have been in seventh heaven.Visiblylearningsomething difficult together will be anextremelyvaluable example for him to follow. That was true for my daughter when we both started to learn to fly gliders when she was 15 - she found she could do things she never imagined were possible, and that she could be an accepted and valuable member of the club community/team (i.e. not a parent-daughter nor a teacher-pupil relationship). I repeatedly made sure she knew that she didn'thaveto continue, which in retrospect was a wise decision since it helped her feel she was in control. But she did continue, and it meant we enjoyed each other's company until she left for university.Whatever you end up doing, have fun, safely.

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 11:36:02 am
content: Awesome! Keep at it, I know it can be very difficult (coming from an adult who is new to electronics as well!) but it is extremely rewarding once you build your first project that you think up, design, build and debug all yourselves

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 11:45:29 am
content: Surely I've got a kit I can send, email me your address TrunKate!

author: zerorisers
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 11:56:00 am
content: Make the uCurrent a kit :p. Would be interesting for them to solder surface mounts and identifying them. He'll now I wanna do that. Gotta wait till I have some money I suppose :pAlso trunkate , you should make YouTube videos if possible. Would be great to watch.Best of luck to you and your son ,zerorisers

author: idpromnut
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 03:34:43 pm
content: @TrunKate: if you get to the point that you are interested in SMD soldering, I have an Arduino clone board that I designed that has SMD components. I could mail you a PCB or two along with some components.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 03:50:37 pm
content: Very nice of you to do this with your son.My children learned to work in the lab from early on. At 3 years old, they had to drill holes in wood, just one hole after another with an electric drill to make a straight line and they loved it. Children learn so fast at that age it is kind of amazing to watch.

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 01:47:08 am
content: @idpromnut We have a Tenma soldering station on the way and are really looking forward to putting it to work! We have some old computers that need leaky caps replaced. It is being donated by flashedbios actually, he has been overly generous by offering us such a tool!@zerorisers That is great advice, my husband and I have been collecting old electronics for years, it has kept us fairly busy, but we can always use more things to diagnose and teardown for parts!@tgzzz I do appreciate the suggestions, I am just as much a newb as him! So, they are invaluable for me to keep our efforts progressing forward! Tonight he wired the Strobing LED project all on his own. After many frustration he finished. We reviewed all the connections together(only two wires were placed incorrectly) and had it working in no time! He is making a proud mama of me!@EEVblog We are excited to get a mailbag opportunity that includes our favorite Electronics nerd! Thanks for inspiring us young and old!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 08:23:43 am
content: I well remember making a Heathkit amplifier with my father. I would put the components in the board during the day, he would double-check at night before soldering them. Good experience. Also a good way to learn to wire mains plugs, before moulded IEC cables became standard.Personally I would stay away from surface mount device soldering for as long as possible - the components are more fragile and fiddly. However, once you have your soldering technique sorted out and need to do it, it is surprisingly easy. I recommend the "reflow skillet" method with a head-mounted magnifying visor. It will be too much information foryouat the moment, but I documented my experiences athttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/assembling-pcbs-with-surface-mount-components/

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 09:06:23 am
content: I wouldn't. Far too many people are scared of SMT and think of it as (too) difficult, but other than the fine pitch stuff it really isn't.In any case, it's how equipment is made these days and isn't going away. Learning to solder SMTislearning to solder.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 09:35:54 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 02, 2015, 09:06:23 amI'd have to agree. Even the fine pitch stuff is manageable for a hobbyist with sufficient practice (i.e. drag method).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 10:07:51 am
content: I'd support the comments of SMD with one strong proviso:We have a newbie mum & son getting to grips with colour coded resistors, 3 & 4 band and you want them to also learn the numeric coding protocols too?Sure if they are ready, great, but don't jump in the deep end before you can swim. Right?They will know when they are ready, they're hooked alreadyand curiousity will lead them to SMD.In the meanwhile the advancement of basic skills will stand them in good stead for the adventures to come.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 11:23:01 am
content: Sure. But if you want to learn to swim, learn to swim. Don't just stop at paddling.

author: zerorisers
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 11:51:55 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 02, 2015, 10:07:51 amThomas can start with a small SMD kit. some simple resistors and capacitors he can probably do with a regular soldering iron. just to get the practice. he can learn some of the stuff after he gets used to it. that way it wont be too tuff on him. I may be having the wrong idea. just on top of my head.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 12:01:17 pm
content: Quote from: TrunKate on April 02, 2015, 01:47:08 amCan I suggest that you find some useless old board and practice desoldering on thatbeforeyou attack something that matters. Desoldering can sometimes be more tricky than soldering: you have to remove old solder from a hole (cf allowing surface tension to pull solder into a hole), bent component leads anchoring a component in a hole, and overheating causing a PCB track to become unglued from the PCB. If possible, clip the leads on a component so you only have to desolder one lead at a time.It is all do-able, with practice. Tools youmightneed are liquid flux (not plumbers!) to reduce surface tension, solder wick (or braid from TV cable), solder sucker.

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 12:09:31 am
content: Soldering is definitely something we are going to be doing, one step at a time, till we have reached our goals! I have been working on how to read schematics. It is very confusing most of the time!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 12:28:04 am
content: Quote from: TrunKate on April 03, 2015, 12:09:31 amYes, it can beIf it was too easy then there would be no sense of achievement when you do understand soemthing.Eventually you will come to recognise some "design patterns", i.e. design snippets that have been show to reliably provide predictable behaviour in a wide range of circuits. Unfortunately those bits - which are the "core of the design" - are often surrounded by a large number of other components whicharenecessary in almostalldesigns, but which don't actually directly contribute to the desired function. Classic examples would be any opamp circuit, where the function is defined by the opamp and a couple of other components - but you will still see decoupling capacitors, power supply components, and so on and so forth.Take it slowly and steadily, learn bit by bit from circuits that are designed to teach some principle or other. A good description is invaluable. So is a fun circuit that does something amusing or useful.But you know all that!

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 01:35:47 am
content: I think it is fantastic that you are taking the time to learn with your son about electronics, after all, there is no getting away from it these days!!I don't "teach" per se, but when people ask me about how things work and if they can replace / prod x, y or z component I always make sure the first thing they have to understand is to be safe, remember, it's not the voltage but the current! And rubbing your eye with your iron hand isn't a good idea either (yes, i've seen someone do it, they weren't hurt but made them think twice)When starting out and you are working with potential bombs (electrolytic caps) try and remember to put a "shield" at first switch on, just in case!I prefer a see through lid so I can see what's going on!Second thing I try to put across is have fun, if you are learning you need it to be fun! A "fun" thing to do is to put a wrong component value in and see if your son can understand why it isn't working and see what effect that particular value has on the circuit, if you can see what happens and how things change from the standard way of working you can quite quickly understand what some components do without worrying about too much math or theory.A nice little tool for formulas etc is Electronics Assistant, you can find it here:http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/I started out with kits from Tandy (Radioshack) here in the UK and you are quite lucky with resource and test equipment availability these days.Another area to explore when you have time and you have acquainted yourselves (or got sick of) electronic components is programming, Arduino for example, in the modern world of digital electronics it is very difficult to find some useful piece of kit without firmware, so just keep that in mindBest of luck to you and your son, is there anyone in your family already into electronics or is it just something you have decided to look at?

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 05:44:55 am
content: Some inspiration from Jeri Ellsworth.Enjoy the journey.Bernice

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 12:38:50 pm
content: Dave- I PM'd you because I am not sure how to email you quite yet...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 03:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: TrunKate on April 03, 2015, 12:09:31 amYou may find this free software useful. It ties between the abstract schematic and the actual physical arrangement on a solderless breadboard.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 09:30:18 pm
content: @TrunKateCongratulations! I wish I had a mum like you! You're amazing! Thanks for your great parental and teaching skills! You made me cry a bit!Are you into education sector? Are you considering homeschooling?I'm having a very hard time learning electronics, I played with it in childhood but my parents weren't unable to motivate an hyperactive boy. Not their fault, they didn't understand my behaviour and it's something in my country is stopping to become a mystery.Are there electronics clubs for families and children? It would amazing to share a hobby and meet other geeky bohs to share their hobby. I did feel lonely when trying to share my interests with other boys, they prefered sports and action movies.

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:23:34 pm
content: @Wilksey, I have always been exposed to electronics one way or another because my stepfather and husband are HUGE computer nerds. Myself included as a teenager I asisted my stepdad in his computer repair business. I learned a lot about the hardware and am still pretty good with that. However, after watching EEVblog for a year or more and having to disasemble my chromee book to repair a malfunctioning speaker with a part I salvaged from an inoperable laptop I wanted to learn about the actual circuits and components. I beegan tearing stuff apart and my son soon followed suit! I really wanted to understand what and how all those little pieces made my PC gamimg possible! And to be honest, anything I can do with my son is extra enjoyable for this mum!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:25:42 pm
content: Quote from: TrunKate on April 03, 2015, 11:23:34 pm

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:34:51 pm
content: @Circuiteromalaguito-I am starting from scratch myself. I must be patient with Thomas, he is easily distracted with video games, cartoons, and sports even! I want him to understand moderation and the reward of following something through to finish, even if it terribly frustrating! He gets very frustrated with his electronics kit! So far though, he has done a terrific job following the instructions. He gets flustered and yells out, " where's 137!?! I can't find it there isn't one!!" I know the kit by heart now, and chime in calmly, "Oh that is a key, the red button! Can you find it now?" Then he'll take a breath and relax. I have to admit last night I blew one of the transistors on the kit. It is awfully embarrassing, but worth a good laugh to tell! I have been doing the projects by only reading the schematics. I stop before making the final battery connection to double check my work. My husband told me there was no way I would harm that dinky thing and to experiment. And well, I hooked the battery up with out reviewing and then a POP and that lovely smell followed! So, ok, every body have a giggle for me! No worries though, we are going to replace the bad transistor this weekend! A fun project for sure!

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:43:17 pm
content: Electronics is a mine field, you never stop learning.Even the best of us blow stuff up (sometimes on purpose) it would be pretty boring if it all worked first time right!It takes a lot of patience to go through everything and understand it, but it'll be worth it in the end!I have just today received in the post the 3rd edition of "the bible" (art of electronics) and oh the memories of how long it took to read the 2nd edition came flooding back! It's expensive (though I paid more for a 2nd hand copy of the 2nd edition than the brand new 3rd edition!) but in a year or two when you have had a chance to move on past your electronics kits it is a wealth of information worth every penny!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:50:23 pm
content: Watching you make mistakes, and the way you deal with them, is a useful learning experience. I always told my daughter that everybody makes mistakes, but let's try and makenewmistakes.One of my favourite grooks isThe secret of successIs simple to express.To errand errand err again.But lessand lessand less

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 11:41:37 pm
content: In case anyone is interested I have started a YouTube channel. It will be slow starting, as I have no experience with that kind of thing. Excuse the bad production, I am sure they will improve over time!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLjb9Ilg6vJ-6m3bTD5X4vg

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 01:42:12 am
content: Good job! Maybe it is not supposed to sound like that, and you blew a transistor, but as I said earlier, that's how you learn, you will be able to at some point in the not so distant future, look at the difference in transistors (datasheets) and figure out why it doesn't work the same, at least it presented a "chirp" of some kind, and it worked, call it a variationBottom line, you experimented, it's what it's all about!

author: TrunKate
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2015, 12:59:08 am
content: Thanks Wilksey! It was very rewarding to hear it work at all. My son's favorite is the two transistor radio!

author: MarkO
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 08, 2015, 02:24:56 am
content: I started about year ago, and indeed it a really deep well of information. Here is what has helped me1.http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Electronics-Forrest-Mims/dp/0945053282This dude walks through and explains electronics and components with tons of small little projects to help you understand and apply the info. Very GOOD Starting place.2.http://everycircuit.com/This is a electronics ciruit simulator, and its GREAT. Every Circuit It allows you to actually create circuits and actually see how they work. VERY Educational, and it make theoretical ideas view-able. Its an App as well as a Chrome plugin, and to my knowledge now completely free. I gave like $4 for it, but id give em $20 if they had asked. They even released a game on Android called Circuit Jam.Anyway... that's what I have enjoyed and learned a good deal from, hope it helps.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2015, 08:54:40 am
content: Quote from: TrunKate on April 08, 2015, 12:59:08 amAnd so he begins to realise that marvellous things are done by people like yourselves, not superhumans. Good start!

author: zerorisers
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2015, 01:42:14 pm
content: #TrunKate4#1Mom