(DONE) WTB [DE/EU]: Rohde & Schwarz CMU200 Universal Radio Communication Tester - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 07:51:20 pm
content: Hi everbody,I'm searching for quite some time now for a reasonably-priced Rohde & Schwarz CMU200. Found some on ebay's US site, but they all will be send with global shipping program (over Pitney Bows Inc.). So the seller will send to an US address and Pitney Bowes will send to me including taxes handling etc. So far so good, except that the internet is full of problems with Pitney Bowes (customs office demand another payment of duty...). So I do not want to take a risk and try to avoid ebays GSP.Hence, my request here.So the perfect unit would have the following features/options:FMR6 Intel based CPUCMU-B17 Analog I/Q IF interfaceCMU-B41 Audio generator and analyzer; includes audio frequency (AF) generator, voltmeter, distortion meterNice-to-Have:CMU-B11/B12 OCXOCMU-B96 2nd TX RF channel with full functionality; for generation of small-band signal (GSM BCCH, channel A) or of wideband signal (WCDMA BCCH, channel B)I already knowhttp://www.eqtsolutions.fi/products.html#product1but they seem to have no matching units according to their xlsx.Thanks in advance!

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 07:59:15 pm
content: So what is your target price then, for those who can offer one?

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 09:17:18 pm
content: You'll have a tough time finding one with the I/Q option, they seem to be rare and expensive.Fingers crossed for you!

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 05:35:04 am
content: Hi Senseless,do you have any documentation on those equipments thats not available online? I have a CRTU, that has the same software/hard as the CMU200 and would like to have more information on it...thanks

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 03:37:27 pm
content: Quote from: ap on May 24, 2016, 07:59:15 pmDepending on options of course, ~1k€.Quote from: Neganur on May 24, 2016, 09:17:18 pmYes, unfortunately most of them does not come with B17. Nevertheless there is one reasonably priced one on ebay, but US so only ebay GSP for me.Quote from: MasterTech on May 25, 2016, 05:35:04 amNo, not yet. I planned to write to _Wim_ when I got my unit. He seems to be a nice person:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cmu200-erratic-levels-outside-1200-2200-mhz/msg877526/#msg877526

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 06:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: senseless on May 25, 2016, 03:37:27 pmThanks :-). Just drop me an pm with your gmail address, and I will share the all the docs I have on the CRTU an the CMU200 (everything is uploaded to google drive)

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 06:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on May 25, 2016, 06:02:28 pmI assumed gmail was a typo, but 'google drive' makes me unsureSo probably I need to create a gmail-address? Asked here, because MasterTech then knows what to do

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 06:14:38 pm
content: Maybe this works also (never tried this)https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2HFOktZ1e3FMnp2QzVaVVV2Unc

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 06:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on May 25, 2016, 06:14:38 pmThank you very much! Works for me.But i do not know if it is a good idea, because the source of the documents is now public...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2016, 06:43:43 pm
content: Gone again :-)

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 09:35:32 pm
content: Maybe i should change the title to:WTB: a nice US guy who wants to play with a CMU200 for a few days and ship it to me afterwardsI'm becoming quite desperate during my search for a suitable CMU in Europe. Does some forum members have experience with shipping to other forum members?Do you think someone could be interested in playing around a little with the unit for compensation?I definitely wont use ebays global shipping program and Pitney Bowes (they are removing bubble wrap for repacking into smaller packets.. etc.).There are some other options (e.g. myus.com) but they are ridiculously expansive unfortunately.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 10:16:23 pm
content: I'd just use the Ebay global shipping program. I have used it many times without problems. Remember internet is filled with clueless people who just complain because they don't understand what is going on. For starters: Pitney Bowes doesn't repack anything which isn't already properly packed. Really ask yourself why should they go through the extra hassle??

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 07:30:05 am
content: Are you really sure you want a CMU shipped from the US? The instrument is super heavy, it won't ship cheap regardless of what you do. Plus, you pay VAT on top of both shipping cost and the price you declare when it's imported.:SI sold a few instruments to forum members, I think it went OK. The only oversea sale was ~6kg and therefore quite affordable.Some years back I bought a tek 7104 from the US. Freight was expensive...

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 07:48:52 am
content: Caveats on the Ebay Global Shipping program as a buyer:o If you're VAT registered but use your personal eBay account to make purchases (I don't have a business eBay a/c), there appears to be no way to claim back or offset the import VAT. The duty/taxes/shipping all come as a single Pitney Bowes payment without being itemised.o I have also had an item returned to seller by the GSP because the dimensions were too large. I purchased two items from the same seller, the other one came through. However the seller switched labels on the shipments. I have yet to receive the "too large" item that was returned to sender over eight months ago, nor will eBay or the seller refund as the label states "delivered" due to the switched labels. Try explaining that for the fifth time to an eBay call centre rep: frankly I'd rather poke my testicles with cocktail sticks thank you.o It's fairly slow and tracking isn't accurate.

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 08:41:49 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 30, 2016, 10:16:23 pmWell, I could just rely on what others say, because I never used it before. E.g.who claims that they do repacking.So is your experience, that they declare customs/fees correctly? Because I've read a lot about they are not paying them and you have to pay them again at customs office...Quote from: Neganur on May 31, 2016, 07:30:05 amNo, I'd love to buy a unit from Europe, but I am searching for quite some time now and did not find any unit with B17 for a reasonable price.For the US unit I am interested in, they say shipping is just 30$ and 250$ custom/fees/VAT. I'm perfectly fine with that, but I do not trust Pitney Bowes....Quote from: Howardlong on May 31, 2016, 07:48:52 amThanks for your experience! And again, against using GSP...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 11:30:07 am
content: Quote from: senseless on May 31, 2016, 08:41:49 amSo far it never went wrong. Still Pitney Bowes is way more expensive than what the local post office charges for handling the import charges. In that regard it may make sense to ask the seller to send it by USPS directly. They will have to make an invoice either way. The GSP program is there because Ebay saw an opportunity to make money from the handling of the customs charges and too many people are utterly clueless about import charges so it saves them complaints at their helpdesk.QuoteIf you have to pay twice you should be able to get your money back from the tax collectors office. Most certainly NOT from Pitney Bows or Ebay.edit: typos

author: samofab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2016, 11:57:14 am
content: I can also attest that ebay global shipping works much much better and cheaper then any other shipping option. No hassle with customs office, reasonable speed and always cheaper (usually much cheaper) than other options.Largest item received from USA was 30kg.

author: ZL1CVD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2016, 02:37:22 pm
content: I've purchased *HEAPS* of gear through eBay with and without using their global shipping program. No problems to date with the global shipping program itself or customs charges, etc. Last item purchased was a CMU200 was sent via UPS and took AGES and was way over priced for the service. Complained in the end. I suspect it depends on country though with some needing bigger bribes than others73s de chris zl1cvd

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2016, 02:53:59 pm
content: $30 for shipping seems unreal low for an item that weighs 18kg, is that with insurance? I'll have to read up on the Pitney Bowes thing.

author: stuartk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 02:04:26 am
content: You can check out this auction:http://www.go-dove.com/en/events?cmd=details&event=501471It's in Canada and they are selling a bunch of the CMU 200's and 500's also. I'm not sure if they have the specs you are looking for.You may get the device for cheap(ish) but shipping to Europe won't be cheap, I'm guessing $260 CAD for a device of that weight if shipped by a private citizen. With these auctions you have to hire a shipping company to send it to you which would cost even more. I suspect the local UPS store may be able to go in, pick it up, pack it and ship it to you. You should find out a shipping price before you bid.

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2016, 04:22:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 31, 2016, 11:30:07 amI asked the seller for direct sending but he denied. However, the unit I was interested in is already sold.eBay auction: #282045205687Any comments on the price? I think it was good for the options it has.Quote from: nctnico on May 31, 2016, 11:30:07 amWhy? I mean if Pitney Bowes never payed any duties but rather kept the money for themselves, why should the tax office give me money back? Or what I am missing?Quote from: samofab on June 01, 2016, 11:57:14 amQuote from: ZL1CVD on June 01, 2016, 02:37:22 pmThank you both for your experience also. With some reports of success I am not that mistrustful of Pitney Bowes any more like in the beginning when reading only bad ratings for PBI.Quote from: Neganur on June 01, 2016, 02:53:59 pmHmm, good point, but it seems that there is no insurance in the GSP?!Quote from: stuartk on June 03, 2016, 02:04:26 amWooh, nice hint, quite a lot of interesting gear there. Will check out the shipping conditions soon. Thanks!

author: Astrodev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 02:11:37 pm
content: I am glad to see that others have spotted the flaws in the Global shipping program as the detail is not in the Ebay part but in the Pitney Bowes T's and C's, I was going to buy a couple of EDC reference standards earlier in the year but had to pull out because of the problems over the GSP.Anyhow the reason for my post is that someone mentioned that you were looking for a CMU200 or CRTU in the EU and I have a pile of CRTU's I got a few months back all of which have the I/Q boards in them the configs are as follows:FRM6 with V3.23 firmwareK6 option with CH1 and 2 enabledB2B7 I/Q IFB9 but not with the 2 Aux RF generators only the 2nd RF generatorUnfortunately I only have one with the AF option and I was planning on keeping that one as it also has the GSM license as well.I don't know if any of these would be of interest but I am in the UK so shipping should not be a problem.Let me know if you need any more info.

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 07:35:13 pm
content: I will not use the ebay global program..But, I don't think to be difficult to find a CMU200 in EU... There are several at ebay right now, and you can contact several sellers of used Equipment... You can add B41 after, but i think B7 will be more complicated.The CMU200 is cumbersome for use as Analog Service Monitor... so please don't mind to use this way directly..Except Generator/SAI have luck, and found a CMU200 with audio tester (B41), second generator (B95) and I/Q with some cosmetic flaw in Ireland, and I get it from Ebay for a price lower than 1Keur. It is working good, ex-NOKIA equipment, but, I plan to use it only via GPIB as I need to work with the generator and audio test at the same time and This is only possible vía GPIB commands... so not easy for the a user not experienced on GPIB control...I advise you to study the manuals (user, programing, service) and to wait with patience until it appears one unit with good price in the second hand market.Good Luck!Manuel

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 08:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: msraya on June 08, 2016, 07:35:13 pmI also found one <1k€ with B12,B17,B21,B41,B52, B54 and B96 fitted (and lots of software options). Should be possible when patient for that price. Anybody know it is possible to enable more software options? Would like to play around with K14 (FM transmitter)...

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 08:57:33 pm
content: Hello _Wim_I try to load the hard disk from CMU200 in VmWare, but the main program ask for the keypad and terminate...I will see if I can emulate or crack the keypad...In the manual for GSM here:https://www.artisantg.com/info/ATG9aseb.pdfshow:"If disabled is indicated, the software option must be enabled using a key code; see section Creating a new Software Configuration on page 1.4"On page 1.4 reads: "A new CMU software option purchased is ready to operate after it is enabled by means of a key codesupplied with the option. This key code is to be entered into the Option Enable popup window which inturn can be opened via from the Setup – Options menu. "I don't know where is the Setup - Options menu...Manuel

author: Astrodev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 10:36:49 pm
content: The options on these can be a bit confusing as it is possible to turn off an enabled option in order to reduce the processor overhead during tests that don't need that function, so on a used unit there are 2 possible causes if an option is disabled, firstly that it has never been enabled and will require a code to turn it on, alternatively it may have been switched off for some reason and only needs to be turned back on again, this usually requires a system restart to enable it.The way to check this is from the utility menu, which is accessed via the system setup button (the middle one located above the rotary encoder), this is the same on both the CMU200 and the CRTU.One thing I will say is that the menus and operation on these can be a bit confusing so it is well worth having a copy of the operations manual to hand in order to find your way around, section 2 has a very useful tutorial on how to access the various functions on the CMU and is well worth a bit of time being spent on going through this.John

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 09:56:59 am
content: Thank You!I found it...I will try this with Softice this Summer..RegardsManuel

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 07:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: Astrodev on June 08, 2016, 10:36:49 pmThanks for the answer, unfortunately K14 was never enabled on my unit. Do not know if it is very usefull, just seems nice to play around with it a bit...

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2016, 09:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: Astrodev on June 08, 2016, 02:11:37 pmThanks, but I rather want a CMU200. In another thread, Würstchenhund said that the CRTUs only have a subset of functionality and less documentation.Quote from: msraya on June 08, 2016, 07:35:13 pmYes, there are but i could see only units for 3999 to 9499 € in Europe... Am I searching the wrong way?And I already contacted eqtsolutions.fi but they did not have a unit with B17 installed. Do you know any other EU seller that has some CMU200s from time to time?Quote from: _Wim_ on June 08, 2016, 08:29:57 pmWhere did you get yours? Also on ebay?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 05:17:00 am
content: Quote from: senseless on June 09, 2016, 09:36:15 pmNo, I got mine from eqtsolutions.fi when they still had units with B17 fitted...

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 07:46:47 am
content: The Ebay user farianne1 had one in good condition and cheap, but It seems to me that it has dropped the sales..So it's true that right now there are no candidates to buy..It is gaining popularity... but I repeat that however it is not much friendly..For general use I prefer Stabilock or Marconi 2968. I have a 4032 that takes much more use.If I found more information I keep you informed...I plan to build a full app to RF testing in general in PyQT with PyVISA, but It takes time...Manuel

author: Astrodev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 07:41:06 pm
content: I had a brand new boxed Keithley 2015 off Farriane1 last year and the stuff he has seems to be spot on as far as description goes so if he has another one come up it may be worth while, based on what he has had it may be worth dropping him a message as just because it is not listed does not mean he does not have one available.The CMU200 I have came from someone who is also a member on the forum and uses the name KJDS it might be worth dropping him a line as I know he does deal in this kind of gear and he is helpful.One thing I like about the CRTU compared to the CMU is that it is very similar in operation but has the ability to run applications in the windows environment unlike the CMU which requires an external controller with GPIB (I was fortunate in this respect picking up a relatively cheap CMW-CU recently), this has opened up some possibilities to try out the CMUgo application that can be downloaded from R&S which allow the creation of test sequences for the CMU, what I still need to do is see if this will work with the CRTU using the CMW-CU as a controller and if this works if it can be run directly on the CRTU itself so allowing a self contained solution, I just need to find some time to do these tests.John

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 09:21:11 pm
content: Finally, I got mine... from across the big pond... with ebay's GSP. So everything I wanted to avoid.But after searching forever for an unit with B17 from Europe, I surrendered. Luckily, everything went surprisingly well.So after all I would thank you all for your answers!I hope to find some time to play with it soon and maybe share some PyVISA-Code.

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 08:06:35 am
content: Mmmm!! Glad to have news from you!You got it!I'm right now installing a Dual Boot Windows2000 into a 8GBytes CF.. and installing a WIFI 802.11B CF also in the front panelBut, i'm having troubles finding the right drivers for windows 2000.It would probably work, but I must test it... I found a DB9 mouse!! and a mini keyboard.. HI HI...It can be interesting to have a web page to browse the datasheets in the lab...I haven't windows software and firmware for the CMU.. So if anyone have windows software that can be used directly in the Windows 2000 partition, please contact me!!I tested my CMU against the Stabilock 4032 to found that it was less than one dB out of calibration...On signal output all connectors behaved equal, but on signal input the leftmost connector was out for more than one dBI'm working with python Qt4 and pyvisa building an application with buttons for take the FFT from a DS1000Z for RF applications, and then I will go with the DSA-815, DP-832A, Keithley 2015 and CMU200... I want to program many applications to automatize several measure procedures in all the equipments.PyVISA is easy to use...Manuel

author: senseless
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 10:29:11 am
content: So you want to have the Spectrum Analyzer App running on Win2000?Maybe I should do a HDD backup and switch to a cheap SSD first. I think someone mentioned it in another thread.Haha, I also have a DS1000Z and want to buy a Keithley 2015 in the future

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 07:10:08 am
content: Senseless, I advice you to make the backup at minimun... I use this tool:http://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-PATA-IDE-Drive-to-USB-2-0-Adapter-Converter-Cable-for-2-5-3-5-Hard-Drive-UK-/252100260603?The HDD is easy to find cheap in ebay, so it is not important to change to SSD, no problem..I try a cheap Amazon Kingston 8BG CF Card and this ebay adaptor:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001NXDB4A/ref=pe_386191_140369641_TE_dp_1http://www.ebay.com/itm/Converter-Adapter-CF-Compact-Flash-IDE-44-pin-male-Hard-Disk-Bootable-HDD-/151482882980?... and in my old FRM5+8b board it is working well, not super fast, but working better..I think you have the old board also...I need software por Windows that works inside the unit, if I not found it.. The Windows2000 partition only will be used for controling other equipment and for write reports with wordI test the spectrum analyzer DOS software on Win98 and Windows2000 and it is not working because it need direct memory access... :-( Not designed for WindowsRegardsManuel

author: leohuangyy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 06:09:16 am
content: hi, I plan to build a full app to RF testing in general in PyQT with PyVISA too,can we finish it together on github?

author: msraya
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 10:05:54 am
content: Hey!I want to try githubIf you have patience with me we can try.. I will send you a pm.Manuel