2 years and still running strong......"free energy" levitating motor. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: pullin-gs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 05:54:59 pm
content: I finished this motor project XMAS break of 2013.If I may say so its a pretty cool implementation of a levitating motor.Parts cost me about $6..Except for the magnets, everything is from my shop's bone-yard.I first started this motor up in December of 2013.After fine-tuning the circuit, I drew up a circuit board (Eagle) and had a batch of them made.The motor sits in the window of my office which faces east. The only time it has ever stopped is when the cat messes with the rotor, when I swapped out the hard-wired breadboard for a new circuit board, and on a few occasions when I bumped it. It gets about 45 minutes of morning sunlight each day. Trees block it the rest of the time.The motor is fully self contained and never needs maintenance.Once I got it dialed in, I have not needed to make any further adjustments.The armature levitates about 1/2" above the motor frame.The armature shaft is a solid carbon-fiber rod sharpened to a fine point. It rests against a pane of glass.As carbon-fiber wears, the carbon dust that is deposited is a dry lubricant.Note: Even after two years, the shaft point is still needle-sharp!The schematic in the video has all component values listed.The base is made from plexiglass. The glass armature backplate is a microscope slide.I cut glass slides and used them as brace-points to maintain rigidity.The operation is very simple. Power is provided with the solar panel. The panel runs the motor and charges the small 150mah NIMH battery on the circuit board. During periods of no sun or at night, the motor runs from the battery.There has never been a period in the past two years where the motor stopped due to lack of energy.The charge circuit limits the charge current to battery to less than 1/2"C". Which is well below the point where overcharging can ever occur.The solar battery I used is 6V with a current limit resistor. I went w/6v because I wanted to maintain a voltage that was still high enough to charge the battery (1.5v +/-) with even in cloudy or lower ambient light conditions.

author: GekkoNZ
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 07:25:04 pm
content: ugh. Came here expecting to have a fantastic laugh reading about woo and magic and bunkum. Left feeling tricked by the subject line.Youdorealise that "free energy" and "motor" in the same sentence has some *very* specific dodgy connotations, right?Nice read though.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 07:31:07 pm
content: How exacly is this free energy when you have battery in your schematic?

author: GekkoNZ
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 07:32:28 pm
content: He means "free energy" as in it doesnt cost money for the electricity due to the solar panel.Not free energy as in "perpetual motion foolery"

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 07:33:00 pm
content: Free like solar power is once you have the cells. If you get the cells used then it truly is free to you, somebody else already has paid the up front costs of manufacture.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 07:34:06 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on December 26, 2015, 07:31:07 pmIt looks to be a rechargeable battery, recharged by the solar cell. And maybe he got it for free

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 07:35:42 pm
content: Quote from: Kalvin on December 26, 2015, 07:34:06 pmhe is also selling this on ebay. paying for something that is "free energy"

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 08:09:08 pm
content: I think it's pretty cool.If one knew the rotational moment of inertia of the rotor (which can be calculated from the weights of the parts and the geometry) one could do some timed run-downs, seeing how long it takes to come to a stop when power to the coil is removed. This will then give one a mechanical power dissipation value. The actual efficiency of the motor could then be calculated, knowing the input power received from the solar cell.I made a "free energy" pendulum that is powered by a PV cell running on just the light from my ordinary desklamp. It doesn't have a battery charger circuit, but it selfstarts and runs for as long as I have the light turned on.ETA: Now that I've seen the schematic, my pendulum actually uses almost exactly the same circuit, but without the battery.

author: pullin-gs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 08:10:29 pm
content: Yes....the title is on the border (OK, it got over the wall) perpetual-motion nonsensical-sounding. O0But from a literal sense I have captured my project pretty well.The energy is free....nobody pays a cent.It levitates.....that was the easy part.It is a motor....drag is overcome and angular momentum is maintained using the "free energy" of the sun.v/r,P

author: pullin-gs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 09:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on December 26, 2015, 08:09:08 pmThis could be tricky. I have been curious myself.Lets take another approach: Determine the theoretical energy to maintain a known steady state (need RPM and physical makeup of the system).Take that theoretical power requirement and compare it with actual recorded current/voltage values.I'll start the discussion off....jump right in to update or correct the process (I'm not very good at this). :-)I'll work it out by first figuring out the energy requirement for the motor while it is operating at a steady state (no increase/decrease in RPM while battery is near fully charged).I'll use the universal laws of physics which influence how matter is influenced by energy, force, acceleration, velocity, etc.The thing with science is that it is very deterministic (its predictable)!We should (depending on whether we can capture the influencing factors) be able to figure this out simply by knowing a few of the key applicable constants and physical constraints of the system.Science Science does not lie. Ever!Here is a good point to start. The math: The power required to maintain an RPM of xxx (I'll fill this in when I later this evening) for a cylinder being spun on an axis is determined below (will need to update formula...other stuff going on):T= Torque in Newton-meters (for two-armed armature) = (p*Cd*x*W^2xR^4)/8TT = Total-Torque = T*6 <----There are 6 "cylinders"Within the equation, the below constants and variables are already known:R is distance from the edge of the armature magnet to the center.Cd is drag coefficient of a cylinder (smooth) = 1.17 ...at sea-level @70-deg.x is diameter of the magnetW is Angular Velocity (in radians/second) = 2x(Pi)xRPSwhere RPS= RPM/60p=fluid(air at sea-level 70 degrees actually) drag density constant.p = 1.2 kg/m^3 Which gives:T = [1.2 x 1.17 x .003 x 628^2 x .005^4]/8TT = 6TEnergy (watts) = (TT x W)Got to go....PS: Who gave me the thumbs-down on my video? Someone got hooked by "there is no such thing as free energy!" bait hook/line/sinker. :-)v/r,P

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 09:36:49 pm
content: This is very cool. Of course, if you are a "free energy" nut, you will be disappointed, but it makes a nice clean gizmo. I think this will sell at gift shops, if miniaturized a bit and packaged well. Also, throw in some cover, so cats won't mess with it.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 09:39:31 pm
content: I'm not into magnets and stuff like this. Would it be possible to lock axial movement by using magnets on both sides as well instead of a needle point?

author: DanielS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 10:15:02 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 26, 2015, 09:39:31 pmIf you can attach perfectly centered and perpendicular magnets at both ends of the axle to avoid introducing wobble and correctly align stopper magnets at both ends with the correct distance so their won't cause the axle to pop from the repelling force trying to keep the axle from drifting axially, sure. Getting the alignment and force just right between all the magnets at work to avoid unstable results will become increasingly tricky with each extra magnetically constrained degree of freedom.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 10:34:50 pm
content: If only all "free energy" articles contained this much sanity. Good job.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2015, 10:53:28 pm
content: Quote from: DanielS on December 26, 2015, 10:15:02 pmNo, it is actually not possible, not just "increasingly tricky". See Earnshaw's Theorem.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2015, 12:00:42 am
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on December 26, 2015, 10:53:28 pmThanks for the info. It will spare me some time trying to figure out configuration that may workEdit: Although, Wikipedia has "Loopholes" section, that states:QuoteAnd a number of other exceptions for moving systems.And furthermore:Quote

author: pullin-gs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2015, 05:39:18 am
content: As promised, here are the numbers:Taking into account 600RM.....and the most significant drag components to maintain operation of the motor, I came up with 1.176mw.The total time the motor can run from a fully charged battery is about 166 hours.Here is the math:T= Torque in Newton-meters (for a single cylinder) = (p*Cd*x*W^2xR^4)/8TT = Total-Torque = T*6 <----There are 6 "cylinders"Within the equation, the below constants and variables are already known:R is distance from the edge of the armature magnet to the center.Cd is drag coefficient of a cylinder (smooth) = 1.17 ...at sea-level @70-deg.x is diameter of the magnetW is Angular Velocity (in radians/second) = 2x(Pi)xRPSwhere RPS= RPM/60p=fluid(air at sea-level 70 degrees actually) drag density constant.p = 1.2 kg/m^3 Which gives:T = [1.2 * 1.17 * x * W^2 * R^4]/8TT = 6TEnergy (watts) = (TT x W)Here are the numbers for 6 poles with diameter of the magnet and length from center of rotor to TOP of magnet.The constants:Cd=1.17p=1.2The motor's rotor propertiesSteady-state RPM=600, giving W=62.8R=.02857mx=.0127mT = [1.2 * 1.17 * .0127 * 62.8^2 * .02857^4]/8 = .0000058566 Newton/MetersTT = 6T =.00003514 Newton/MetersE1=TT*W = 2.21mw***********************************Here are the numbers with diameter of the magnet and length from center of rotor to BOTTOM of magnet.The constants:Cd=1.17p=1.2The motor's rotor propertiesSteady-state RPM=600, giving W=62.8R=0.02540mx=.0127mT = [1.2 * 1.17 * .0127 * 62.8^2 * .0254^4]/8 = .000003659 Newton/MetersTT = 6T =.00002195 Newton/MetersE2=TT*W = 1.3786mw***********************************Here are the numbers for 6 poles with diameter of the screw (which magnet mounts to) and length from center of rotor to BOTTOM of magnet.The constants:Cd=1.17p=1.2The motor's rotor propertiesSteady-state RPM=600, giving W=62.8R=0.02540mx=0.003175mT = [1.2 * 1.17 * .003175 * 62.8^2 * .0254^4]/8 = .000000915 Newton/MetersTT = 6T =.000005488 Newton/MetersE3=TT*W = 0.34465mw***********************************Total energy required to spin rotor @600RPM TE is:TE=energy of magnet + energy of mounting screwsTE= (E1-E2)+E3TE= (2.21 - 1.3786) + .34465 = 1.176mw***********************************Total battery energy available:Here are the constants:1.3v nominal voltage capacity under very light load150ma/hr capacityWhich gives: 195mw/hrs of energy total.***********************************How many hours of run time:195mw/hrs/1.176mw = 165.82 hours.It is much lower if I factor in significant electrical losses (.5 volt drop across the switching bipolar transistor junction being the biggest).PS: Another thumbs-down on the video? I figured I'd snag a few people who could not sort this out.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2015, 07:12:44 am
content: Motors have "poles" not "polls."

author: pullin-gs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2015, 08:30:16 pm
content: Quote from: pullin-gs on December 27, 2015, 05:39:18 amAnd now I'll factor in losses of the circuit:***********************************Total battery energy available to motor (after factoring in circuit losses):Here are the constants:Voltage level which actually reaches the coil windings = 1.3v - .6v = .7v.8v nominal voltage capacity under very light load150ma/hr capacityWhich gives: 120mw/hrs of energy total available to motor.***********************************Total calulated run time is now:120mw/hrs/1.176mw = 102.56 hours.Total theoretical current draw I is:I = 1.176mw/.8 = 1.71ma

author: pullin-gs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 03:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: pullin-gs on December 27, 2015, 08:30:16 pm....and actual measured current draw is 2.25ma.Giving an efficiency of 76%.Not great, but not that bad either considering I did not take into account the LED, the drag between the carbon rod and glass, or the air drag of the flat end of the poles.The electronic circuit is dialed in pretty good (The scope trace properties are excellent).PS: My OWON scope is acting up. Need a new scope. Any thoughts on the SIGLENT SDS1202X? It will meet my needs nicely.