good encryption chips for wired communications? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2018, 11:51:23 pm
content: Are there any chips that will put a very strong encryption between secured locations on an unsecured wire?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 11:07:59 am
content: MAXQ1061How patriotic Maxim. This is exactly why we have Russian hackers electing our politicians.. I am sure your corporate dickheads are singing the star spangled banner when they are making infrastructure great again with this kind of behavior. We need to romance you if we want good door locks that boris and his commie comrades can't pick from the looks of it.Anyone got the NDA DS on a burner account (if your scared)? I don't believe this shit, I can't make my own stuff secure unless I am a big boy with money to spare. Corporate interests degrading national security? yup yup

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 11:59:57 am
content: Just about any modest microcontroller will get her done, AES128 is just not that hard (There are a few details around avoiding timing attacks that you need to pay attention to).The real trick is key distribution or (if doing DH or such), authentication. You either need a secure channel to communicate a few hundred bits of key data or you need a secure way of proving that the other end is who it claims to be to avoid the risk of man in the middle attacks, no chips really help with this part.Seriously, this problem is in the literature, and you dont need special silicon.Regards, Dan.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 12:14:55 pm
content: That one does 256And I am only interested in secured locations talking to each other. And its very low power. And I defiantly don't want to figure out how to make encryption code.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 12:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 28, 2018, 12:14:55 pmYou need to know a bit about the dos and donts of safe encryption to have any chance of delivering a safe system. Otherwise it's likely to end up being security theater. As dmills says, it's about the literature.What's wrong with the Maxim chips by the way, other than being Maxim?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 06:37:32 pm
content: try getting the data sheet thats the problem.those suckas abridged it. They demand mucho dinero and lawyers for the real specificationI don't want to develop an encryption engine. I will take something reviewed by like 50 engineers and literary engraved in stone rather then anything I can code up myself for something as serious as preventing crime. There is like 5000 other things to do like emissions, physical security, suceptance against heavy irradiation, inspection procedure to develop for something that uses encryption that are all infinatley more interesting then coding an efficient algorithm for a complex math task.I am pretty sure it won't be security theather so long the things are guarded, and radios don't pick anything up even if its irradiated. Obviously eventually there is gonna be a problem when someone puts a 20GHz transmitter at 500 watts a few meters away from it and overcomes its armor but thats true of anything, I consider that physical. Plus you would need a serious RF poindexter (don't worry your fat ass salary and Bentley will more then make up for any derogatory slang I use) to make use of data collected that way.The main problem would be the long undefened communications wires.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 06:41:07 pm
content: Just get a microcontroller and do it yourself... if you want AES 256 the code is available freely.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 06:41:31 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on August 28, 2018, 06:41:07 pmNo thanks. If someone made a PIC or something that did exactly what that chip does and provided documentation and code I might use it as a stand alone device/coprocessor thing. Still don't like it though, ASIC sounds fabulous.I also like the idea of a separate encryption chip because I can tell someone I bought the encryption from someone else so I am not being audited to find out I coded it correctly. A code review can turn into a serious nightmare if someone does not like your style, wheras with a circuit board you can at least bring the argument to the realm of physics. Customer can even buy the encryption chip from a 3rd party if they don't trust me, or I can force them to install it themselves, so I don't need to deal with government assholes or such.Plus if you modify code it can end up breaking shit, I saw this happen to professionals all the time. The last thing you want is to accidentally bork encryption its too important.There are alot of benefits. I don't even like doing switch debounce on a MCU, I prefer a nice debounce IC.The more functions you export to ASIC like hardware the less code you have to audit, the less chance you have to break something during a modification. And managing those software engineers is like herding cats. Most people just put up with the frustration to save some dollars though, its how its done usually. And I think nowadays most engineers tend to like coding more, I generally don't however.don't click this link if you are a cheap skate with a weak hearthttps://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/MC14490DWG/MC14490DWGOS-ND/918929I'm a fucking mad man, I'd use itagain. 126 transistors. That's right, 21 transistors per debounce input. I sleep sounder.You can probobly do it with like what, 21 lines of code? HAHHAHAI'd pay like 20$ for one of those cryptographic chips

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 11:12:57 pm
content: The point is that buying the chip still won't get you what you want. You still need to know about properly implementing it. Security is always a chain and every link needs to be right. As dmills stated correctly, it's a literature thing and that's true with or without IC. Anyone who promises to sell turnkey security is a charlatan. You either need to study the area yourself, pay someone competent to do it for you or forget about it. This stuff is hard to get right.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 11:14:10 pm
content: that has nothing to do with a chip that does the encryption code for you does it? I want that block of math done by someone else.I feel like I am asking about a specific op-amp specification and your telling me low noise design is hard.Do you have something specific in mind?If I don't want to do one specific step, then there are other steps that I will come across, what does bringing those up have to do with anything?I see the chip as a device that, instead of a function call or whatever in code, you write to a SPI bus and receive data back from it in a timely manner. The only thing I see different is bigger loop area that might make more emissions but that's entirely separate.Like there are some ADC that have a oversampling digital logic built into them, so you can avoid using the MCU for that task, the ADC will do exactly what you want it to do before giving you information (like that 32 bit one).. I don't have a problem with that, it makes my code simpler. It lets me avoid making a FIR filter and averaging code, as simple as it is. When I tried to make a FIR filter myself I got stuck with some kind of stupid shit in the programmer with a missing bracket or something that took me 3 days to figure out, I don't wanna deal with that kind of crap. Or other peoples libraries.Same with the debounce chip.At least let me build the thing before you find flaws? Even if I have flaws maybe I would do a much better job with a complicated function taken out of my code where at least some attackers are deterred? Maybe I will have a easier time triangulating problems also?Unless you clarify I feel like I am trying to buy a cement mixer and your telling me pouring a foundation is difficult, and since its difficult I should mix it with a shovel or build my own cement mixer.. It is possible to learn through failure you know?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2018, 11:32:15 pm
content: and you know what, an encryption is just really cool and I feel all dope as hell working on oneI still want it. No matter what anyone says. To me its like one of those apollo mission computers or something taken out of the little boyEven cooler if it has some kind of NSA backdoor, maybe I can put it in a spy museum one day. I can appreciate that a buncha guys sat around thinking about it, making semiconductor masks, all that factory and design stuff.

author: Jr460
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:00:09 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 28, 2018, 06:41:31 pmI certainly understand wanting to move the problem of an audit or proof that things are secure to someone else, like the maker of the chip. However I feel your view on encryption is flawed and it leads to a much less security than you think.Any code, or ASIC or chip that does encryption, heck go back to one of the very first DES chips that you could buy from Intel back in the 1970s, does not work alone. That is just the method, but they all require a key. No one hacks, ( well the guys at NSA give it a try), the math or encryption algorithm. Which if you buy a chip, or as you said have customers drop in their own chip, is that part of the process. Some where you need to store key and feed it to the chip along withe data. People hack poor key management more than anything else. (Among other things that allowed US/UK to read the traffic, in WWII Enigma had some key management problems, and on top of that users were not completely following all the keying procedures)If you can't prove that you handle keys correctly, (nope not going to go into all that entails), it doesn't matter where your chip came from. Go ahead and do AES-512 which NSA/DoD says is approved for up to Secret level data. If I can get the key because the rest of your system is insecure, or you don't change it enough, or a bunch of other problems, I can do AES-512 however I want and decode your data.Security is hard, buying a chip thinking it will solve all the problems is putting your head in the sand.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:12:12 am
content: That's what we said, but apparently we're solving the wrong problem.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 01:49:07 am
content: Quote from: Jr460 on August 29, 2018, 01:00:09 amWhy would it make me think anything about key management? I get the point dude.. how am I putting my head in the sand by wanting to put a complicated computationally intensive algorithm on a dedicated chip? I never even said what my application was.Were you traumatized by military investigators or something?The point is to engineer a system. They can put the key on it themselves (like a military radio encryption module). The thing is declassified and you just have some kinda slot for the key to go into I guess, I never really looked at it, I know you can buy em though. Their old and use AES56 thoughI just don't wanna deal with that block of code...................I can either get the 10 commandments in stone, which is the chip, or use some shit scribbled on a bathroom stallEveryone is talking about problems that are solved with armed couriers and paranoid medium pay dudes with rifles and stunguns walking around in circles aimlessly throughout the night. Their not my problem, nor is training them. I am pretty sure the government has a entire branch that just deals with keys. I want no part in generating or maintaining any kind of key database.For some reason people are bringing up industry service problems that should not concern hardware people, at all. Maybe physical lock companies have this issue because you might need special tooling and algorithms to manufacture keys like abloys, but even they could make some kind of cad program that they can give people to use with advanced 3d printers to make keys, it's just alot more difficult then putting a sequence of bits on a PCB.If someone demandssecurity through obscurityand demands you hold manufacturing secrets yourself thats a whole different game that I don't wanna play. Don't need the stress. If everything is open no one has any good reason to spy on you. Once you start keeping people's secrets you got like 80 interested foreign intelligence agencies, not to mention 'friendly' counter surveillance people. If you want me to keep secrets from all CIA equivalents then you better pay me 1 million for every country on earth yearly lol, like I wanna end up in a shipping container in the south china sea being beaten with phone booksIt's why I refuse clearance, I don't know what some nut running some foreign gestpo is going to consider interesting

author: radioactive
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:06:08 am
content: Might be worth looking into the stm32h7xx (stm32h743 for example). It has standards compliant crypto implemented in hardware with the following features:Compliant implementation of the following standards:NIST FIPS publication 46-3, Data Encryption Standard (DES)ANSI X9.52, Triple Data Encryption Algorithm Modes of OperationNIST FIPS publication 197, Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)AES symmetric block cipher implementation128-bit data block processingSupport for 128-, 192- and 256-bit cipher key lengthsEncryption and decryption with multiple chaining modes: Electronic Code Book(ECB), Cipher Block Chaining (CBC), Counter mode (CTR), Galois Counter Mode(GCM), Galois Message Authentication Code mode (GMAC) and Counter withCBC-MAC (CCM).14 (respectively 18) clock cycles for processing one 128-bit block of data with a128-bit (respectively 256-bit) key in AES-ECB modeIntegrated key scheduler with its key derivation stage (ECB or CBC decryptiononly)DES/TDES encryption/decryption implementation64-bit data block processingSupport for 64-, 128- and 192-bit cipher key lengths (including parity)Encryption and decryption with support of ECB and CBC chaining modes

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:12:36 am
content: How fast do you think those ASICs are in comparison to the MCU's cryptocore, if you can hazard a guess?

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:15:35 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 28, 2018, 11:07:59 amGood news! You don't have to. Mouser lists them for under $6/50's and $7.71 for a single piece. They're backordered but they're expecting 395 on 25-Sep-18, less than a month out.https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxim-Integrated/MAXQ1061EUD%2b?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvw41ESBAosLLsKZIiLVM4AUj%252bIKE6x0gs%3dThe eval kit is a bit pricey at almost $400 but you could use a proto PCB house deal if you want to whip up one of your own in the month before you get your part(s). On the other hand, Mouser does have the eval kit in stock so if time is precious you could have one in your hands in a couple of days and start making progress. A classic time vs. money tradeoff.

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:17:23 am
content: I believe most of the larger arm cortex m gear (m4 ) can do AES 256 in hardware.the trick however is the key management and generation routines for larger message sizes needs to be done in software as the builtin hooks only works for smaller messages.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:17:44 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on August 29, 2018, 02:15:35 amWhat, their available for purchase but you need to beg Maxim for a datasheet?How do you use it? I don't understand how you could use a digital chip without a full data sheet...... On their website they say they won't provide you with nothing unless you are doing major manufacturing and willing to sign a NDA.No I/O, no pins, no register maps???Are you sure digikey is not just hosting a error listing? I mean I guess you can fuzz it but seriously?You pointed me in the right direction with mouser. I did not realize so many people made this kind of stuff. I got a clue about the vocabulary now.I just want something that encodes and decodes AES256 private key, preferably in a asynchronous solution that just will transmit the encrypted thing immediately after processing on another pin and not back to the MCU, otherwise you need some kind of redirector circuit to ensure the MCU never see anything it decides to encrypt. And it should have a separate port for loading the key, perhaps from a EEPROM, but I would prefer it does not have internal memory, and instead requests the key on every encryption event from some kind of dumb device.The decoder would be something that just waits for a appropriate encrypted transmission to come in, goes HIZ during processing through some means, and spits spits it out, no need to store anything decrypted. If the MCU misses it tough shit.Should all be asynchronous. If there is a timing problem then the operators need to tune it and determine why it became unstable or intermittent or nonfunctioning. Any kind of negotiation of timing between devices seems like a security risk.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 03:13:05 am
content: AES is a symmetric key algorithm, not private/public-key. I agree with all the others here that you seem to have little understanding of what you're trying to accomplish.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 03:44:06 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 29, 2018, 02:17:44 amIt happens, I've had it from NXP before, when you point out their chips are on digikey they seem astonished.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 03:46:01 am
content: i can make one for you, the algorithm is backed by engineers of the world, but its not going to be cheap... just PM if interested...

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 04:11:28 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 28, 2018, 06:37:32 pmSeeing how that chip is export restricted, they're probably covering their @$$es. Your complaint should properly be directed against the federal government where those laws originate. You can't blame Maxim for trying to make sure they're not a co-defendant in some federal lawsuit because some nitwad used their chip and then exported their system in violation of federal law.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 05:01:14 am
content: You seem to be saying you have some arbitrary box of electronics A and some arbitrary box of electronics B which you control, with a wire between them.You can make up any obfuscated secret protocol only you know, any way you like.Make up a random one-time pad and xor it with the data before you send it and give the microcontroller on the other end a copy of the same pad. The strongest most unbreakable crypto.If you control both devices and their protocol you can obfuscate the data however you please.If you don’t, how are you going to handle compatibility, key generation and key distribution?And a one time pad is completely transparent for you to audit.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 05:05:31 am
content: There are a lot of common everyday microcontrollers that fall under “controlled crypto”.Grab your nearest DigiKey invoice etc and look at what the ECCNs are. (Interestingly it seems hard to find this out when shopping, except on the invoice after purchase.)

author: jbb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 08:52:42 am
content: I think that what you want does not exist in chip form. Good crypto inembeddedis hard, and takes hard work.If you don't want to get in it up to your eyeballs, maybe you should look for a 3rd party system (hardware, software, keying material,instructions and policiesetc.) with appropriate standards compliance?Quote from: coppercone2 on August 29, 2018, 01:49:07 amThen you are doomed to failure. Key management is absolutely critical, and you can't rely on the end user to 'know what to do.' If you're lucky, you can get them to follow your explicit and carefully written instructions and procedures. Which means youmusttake some part in key management.Quote from: coppercone2 on August 29, 2018, 01:49:07 amAnd how is this dongle loaded with keying information? How do you know it hasn't been tampered with? How do you know that all the dongles aren't just I2C EEPROM chips with the same key every time?radioactive has kindly made a list of some standards. I suggest you have a look at them.Off the top of my head, a quick set of considerations for the crypto:Accept that there will be a number of keys per device for various roles (e.g. communications vs pairing vs firmware update).Don't use DES. It's old and the keys are too small.Use AES128 or AES256.Usehardwarefor encryption and authentication. Software implementations leak information out (execution time, power supply ripples, RF radiation, ultrasonics, I'm sure people will find more). Hardware implementations are constant-time (and faster than SW!) and leak less information. Modern micros often have hardware built in, just add device drivers.Use cryptographic authentication to make sure someone hasn't tampered with the data in flight. Even if they can't read it, someone randomly flipping bits might cause a Very Bad Payload after decryption. CRC isnotcryptographic authentication. You most likely need an AES HMAC or something from the SHA-2 family.AES keys must be unique per device.Otherwise someone can break one unit, and extract the One Key to Pwn Them All.Private RSA or ECC keys must use be unique device.See aboveWherever random numbers are used, they need to be strong. They should come from a hardware (a.k.a. 'true') random number generator and should probably have some whitening.AES keys should be managed with a finite life (both in calendar time and number of blocks encrypted), after which they should be retired.All plaintext keying information must stay inside the micro unless it's encrypted. Be careful if using external RAM - special linker scripts may be required to manage the exact placement of key material.Unique serial number per device.This isby no meansexhaustive.I suggest you take a look at the MBED TLS software library. I believe the DTLS option can send data without TCP/IP, but still do the good stuff like public key exchange (I suggest TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_AES_GCM_128). However, you need to either a) get yourself a preconfigured software library for your processor and review the #### out of it or b) hook the MBED TLS library into the hardware on your chip (coding required). Option c, which I don't recommend, does the AES, SHA etc. crypto primitives in software and be more vulnerable to side channel attacks.Deployment of TLS like this will also require certificate management, which includes key handling. There's no way to avoid it.In addition to all this, you must be able to update the product firmware in a secure manner. This means some kind of signature. Seeing as you don't want to prepare a separate update binary for every damn unit, you will need to deploy public key cryptography techniques (e.g. RSA or ECC). Typically you would load a manufacturer public key into every device (same for all devices is OK forpublickeys) and sign the firmware binary with the manufacturer private key that you keep in a vault. Also, bonus points if you encrypt the payload so people can't read your binary.EDIT: oops, I forgotreplay protection.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:57:36 am
content: Quote from: amyk on August 29, 2018, 03:13:05 amwhere the hell did i say anything public? I said no externally adjustable data at all, not even timing negotiation in the protocolno one said anything about me not knowing what I am wanting to accomplish, they just keep bringing up issues related to key management, physical security and generation that are literary not my interest or problem. Anything related to loop area in semiconductors can be nulled with distance, isolation, guards and shielding.I am looking for some bit-shifters with very specific information flow and speed (encoder/decoder) not a EZ CRYPTO SOLUTIONwhy are you even upset?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 11:59:03 am
content: Quote from: jbb on August 29, 2018, 08:52:42 amSo you are saying that people don't pin their locks or make their own keys?Good tips but key management aint my problem. Idea is to have as little software as humanely possible. You can make money managing anything really. And I consider it fucked if someone gets within 200 feet.I am just interested in ASIC encoders/decoders at this point. I am thinkin about this programming stuff with a fresh mind this morning and I would rather not lolYou used too many scary words man:1) MBED TLS software library.2) DTLS option3) TCP/IP,4) public key exchange5) TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_AES_GCM_128)6) preconfiguredsoftware libraryfor your processor andreview the ####out of it7) hookMBED TLS9)library10)(coding required).11) AES, SHA etc. cryptoprimitives12)softwareI could make a scary video montage out of these words, like the scam montage in Better Call Saul, I am seeing captain hook steering his ship around in a bowl of alphabet soup fighting neolithic people over clothing.. then at the peak of the action when your sitting on the edge of your seat some grey monoliths come down from the sky speaking of hundreds of errors in the compiler

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 12:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on August 29, 2018, 04:11:28 amUh, so do you think they will sell that thing? I mean do they just think you won't be able to figure it out with random IO? I assume you can at least figure out which port is SPI or I2C and power or whatever by its impedance and comparing it to similar chips, even if you don't have a xray. They sell an entire line of chips that are kinda related in their product line that might use the same silicon.Way too complicated to fuzz some kind of logic map of the interior? (only heard about this theoretically).Or is mouser going to bring you to some special page when you wanna buy it (I never bought anything export controlled other then power microwave stuff on eBay, probably because it was used in EW labs, and it just threatened me a bunch with fines and jail IIRC, unfortunately a ninja did not come out of my computer and force me to take a ancient blood oath, I really thought one might with all those cryptic legal symbols)Is it true they make you burn a picture of the virgin mary in your held out hand when you finally get top secret clearance at kinky hazing ritual with Gina, Nakasone and Trump? Maybe i'd do it if they were all like 20-30 years younger.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 02:09:19 pm
content: Coppercone2, I understand that you feel that people here aren't answering your questions. However, considering that there are a lot of very experienced people here and quite few have warned you that encryption is an involved affair that requires knowledge and experience, might it be an idea to now take a step back and take a long hard look at what you're trying to do, how you're going about achieving it and how feasible it really is?Nobody's trying to be hard on you, but security requires designing it in from the start. Building hardware and sprinkling it with secure chips first seems to be a recipe for disappointment. Please understand that people are trying to help you and that being increasingly belligerent isn't serving your goals.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 06:53:13 pm
content: Most things on this forum are actually really hard. All I learned from this thread is that you can refer to them as decoders/encoders (for some reason I thought the term excluded encryption operations for whatever reason) and that most people prefer to use software to do the encoding and decoding. And that the goverment finds those chips interesting for whatever reason, enough that apparently Maxim SC yields to their pressure.I am just surprised people will talk shop about atomic clocks, cutting edge voltage references (which don't usually turn into discussions about how mass producing a ship able DMM is difficult), but some kind of arithmetic chip turns into a huge debacle.I think I phrased my question wrong and used incorrect unspecific vocabulary, so this very general discussion happened, and I failed to focus.I think this is also because there is a massive cryptonerd war (usually related to PC's though) that's been going on for a very long time about how to make a better mouse trap and how everything else is utter shit, so this thread seems to reignite some of that passion in people when the question is not focused.When I do more industry research and general research on algorithms handled by ASICs I will make a more specific thread with specific chip requirements if I still cannot find what I am looking for, where I will compare my requirements to specifications that can be met with some of the devices people listed in this thread compared with my own sizing up of the classified datasheet ASIC.This thread can just live as a re purposed (hijacked) warning (and useful guide) to those interested in the whole enchilada rather then just the algorithmic subsystem of a typical encryption system that I am interested in. I do feel that there is generally useful information here.I can't say the points are useless but they feel mostly irrelevant to my interests in the ASIC technology. I also have never seen a encryption system design/engineering/development thread on EEVBLOG before so there might have been superheated interest in the topic that caused this chaotic precipitation of information on the nucleation point that is this thread.

author: jbb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 07:52:55 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on August 29, 2018, 06:53:13 pmAll right, I understand your frustration. You came here asking about hardware encryption blocks and we did indeed branch out from that.You're right that we shouldn't be discussing AES as encoding/decoding. That was sloppy.Answering the most basic question about how to get the AES encryption done in hardware:Get a microcontroller with an AES block built inYou load up the key registers, load up one block of data in the input registers and hit the 'go' bit in the status register. Some few clock cycles later, the 'done' flag goes up and your result is ready in the output data registers.For maximum throughput, you can use DMA to get the data in and out automatically rather than getting the CPU to handle everything.Flows of some 10s of Mbytes / sec can be piped through, e.g. a Cortex M4 @ 150 MHz.If you don't want all the fancy NDA NDA NDA tamper resistance, you can look for a more generic chip with an open datasheet. Possible options are ST STM32, NXP LPC, TI Sitara, Silicon Labs Pearl Gecko / Jade Gecko, etc. You'll have to open the datasheets to make sure the crypto part hasn't been chopped out into a supplementary datasheet under NDA.But, I beg of you, please don't think that using AES is sufficient. Please have a look at this very brief piece of Wikipedia articlehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_cipher_mode_of_operation#Electronic_Codebook_(ECB), which I think makes a great example of how the block cipher is only a part of your crypto system.Finally:did you ask Maxim for the datasheet(including NDA)of the MAXQ1061? Seeing as they're billing it as an IoT chip, they may be willing to deal with you even if you aren't buying 10,000 pieces/year.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 03:13:30 am
content: I did not bother to ask Maxim because my need is like, a few chips for a life time.Just wanted to make a wired secured field telephone that runs on a thin cable. Maybe sell a few to some kinda electronically savvy friends who would never use it. Thought maybe make it a video phone. I kinda lost interest already. You would just run a wire and plug in the telephone when you got there and keep it with you when you leave. It's not meant to hit the postal service or something. I was hoping with a ASIC I could figure out how to make the interface using discrete logic with some kind of squelch (at least for the audio only one), with a hardware card for keys.

author: xani
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 02:22:32 pm
content: Quote from: LukeW on August 29, 2018, 05:01:14 amThat works only whenMessage size <= key sizeyou only use key onceSo in other words extremely impracticalQuote from: coppercone2 on September 03, 2018, 03:13:30 amGet two Raspberry Pis and any voip thingy over openvpn if you just want to "make a thing".If you really want to bother with micros, Silicon Labs ones are pretty cheap and have AES 128 engine on board with reasonable (IIRC 52 cycles per 128bit data block) speed

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 02:32:51 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 03, 2018, 02:24:50 pmI never felt some kind of like god like awe from any of them. And I would rather do business with a hydralisk to be honest.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2018, 06:31:04 pm
content: NXP has new Aug. 2018A71CHsecurity IC for IoT applications.