EEVblog #180 - Soldering Tutorial Part 1 - Tools - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eternal_noob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2011, 04:20:27 pm
content: Since I'm a cheap ass I make my own liquid flux and desoldering braid.I found a pack of old and dry Russian rosin chunks on ebay, and dissolved it in isopropanol. If someone wants to try this, you can get rosin in music stores that sells violins and so on. Ask for a discount on the oldest they have on hand since violinists like them soft. The desoldering braid is simply strands taken out of a piece of speaker cable dipped in the liquid flux and set to dry before use. I apply the flux on the board with the help of a tiny dipstick.Works like a charm.

author: pmrlondon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2011, 07:58:28 pm
content: If I ever start needing to solder in a "bench" environment again, I will certainly go for a temperature controlled setup. I can see how it's better than a fixed or even coarse-adjustable iron, but many of my soldering situations have been where no convenient 230V AC supply exists - and sometimes no convenient 12V DC either, hence the fact that I currently use a butane iron. The control of that is nowhere near as good, of course.As for solder composition, I have quite a bit of 60/40, mostly of the "Multicore" brand which is of course excellent - and some lead-free that came from Maplin, awful stuff to use, and all on the thicker side at present. I have found thinner solder gives me better results, as Dave suggests, and will buy some 0.5mm, probably 63/37, before I do any other jobs for which it's essential.Where I need to use lead-free solder, I now only use it with tips kept for the purpose, as I've found it not to be much good for them.Cheap solder suckers can be good - but I would recommend keeping two, just in case one jams up - that way, provided it doesn't happen to the other one too, you won't need to stop what you are doing to clean the sucker. (Murphy could easily descend on that, of course.)For major through-hole rework where lots of ICs are involved, one of my friends used to use a Hot-Vac - not sure what is available in that line these days, and unless you are (like me) into restoring "antique" computers, it might not be a major issue.

author: Trigger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2011, 08:53:53 pm
content: It's been a while since I've seen a well tip. It seems most of the training and certification courses now are pushing the hoof tips for drag soldering.The bent conical tips are mainly used to tack SMT parts in place before you drag solder them.The biggest points for good soldering are a good iron, a clean tip, and liquid flux. Yes, multicore solder has flux but when my office was sent to get certified to do high reliability work it was stressed toalwaysuse liquid flux even with through hole parts to get the best bond possible.

author: aXit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 03:23:43 am
content: Seems like the only area I'm falling behind is my solder. I think I'll get some multicore then, seems like it's looked very highly upon.I'm considering the following two:http://au.element14.com/multicore-solder/3096525-m/solder-wire-60-40-0-5mm-250g/dp/5090787http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Multicore-SN63-Hydro-X-015-5lb-Spool-Solder-New-/160587953425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2563c9b511I know dave recommended <0.5mm, but is 0.37mm too small?

author: dimlow
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 04:24:26 am
content: Dave, looks like you solder sucker tip is knackered, Quick tip, stick a bit of silicone tubing over the tip, works great!

author: Trigger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 05:46:52 am
content: Quote from: aXit on June 19, 2011, 03:23:43 amYour solder should be between 30% and 50% of the diameter of your component holes for through-hole for control without making yourself feed a ton of solder to make the joint. It should only take you about three to five seconds for a through-hole joint. You touch iron to meeting point of the solder and lead to start and then move to the opposite side to fill since solder will move towards the heat source. It takes some practice to know just how much to feed but you get a feel for it quickly. I use .020" (0.5mm) for the majority of soldering tasks I have. 0.37mm will work but be ready to feed more for a good joint. It you're doing SMT then the 0.5mm or 0.37mm will work fine.This video shows the technique. It shows lead free but leaded solder makes it easier.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 09:34:51 am
content: Arg, the dreaded "third hand" board holder. Don't waste your money on them. They don't hold your board firm, but the alligator clip will scratch and damage your board.Regarding a hoof or well tip, you can do drag soldering with a simple chisel tip, too. It takes a little bit of practice and you have to pay more attention.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 10:24:20 am
content: I really like using a small vise with plastic jaws and a rotating ball mount as a board holder, primarily for through hole components. You can hold small boards clamped lengthwise between the jaws, while large boards can be clamped on the edge. You can hold the board horizontally while leaving the bottom side clear so the leads don't press into the desk, or you can hold them vertically so you can solder the bottom side of the leads without the component falling out.Surface mount components can easily be soldered with the board lying flat, although I still put small boards in the vice just to keep them from moving around.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 01:53:40 pm
content: Third hands aren't bad, its like having an army of munchkins holding things. If you need a vise, get a vise. I use the 3rd hand to hold wires while soldering, and their metal hands take heat very well; Panavise are far more costly and its all plastic construction is a bit more frail that the steel hands. The hands also act as heat sinks when soldering items, pulling heat away if you need them. You can use them to hold items while you blast them to heat shrink tube them and not worry about heat; you can put them inside a DUT, to hold things for you.If you do get one, spend the extra $1 to get the better made clone with arms that are thumb screwed versus snap on. There are so many copies, the bad ones are much worse.Cheap clone on the left, note the alligator is just snap on, versus held with thumb screws on the right. The hand on the right is 20+ years old, cost about $7, the one on the left is newly made clone, about $3. Note the diameter of the shaft and thicknesses of the metal, the clone is about 1/3rd thinner.If you worry about the alligators scratching or biting things, just insert a guard, a penny or washer between teeth to provide a flat surface, or insert a folded U shaped sheet of thin rubber.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 01:58:43 pm
content: Never thought of making my own solder wick, but that's a good idea, thanks. I can get scrap braided wire and dip it rosin and see what happens. Better than just dumping it, recycle, reuse!Quote from: eternal_noob on June 18, 2011, 04:20:27 pm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 02:04:26 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on June 19, 2011, 01:58:43 pmUsed solder wick makes excellent high current wire!Dave.

author: vtl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2011, 02:41:20 pm
content: Good video, look forward to the followup. Soldering is certainly one of my favourite aspect of electronics.I think theres not many good videos out there on soldering, its certainly a hard topic to cover properly. Theres quite a lot to know from gear, technique and knowing the characteristics of solder. Most instructional videos simply show you how to solder some dip chip into a perf board or something. Thats generally useless and anyone can do that really.You said its hard to do bad soldering but I've certainly found most of the people at my uni absolutely suck at it, even with proper soldering stations. What people really need to learn is how the solder actually works and know what to do when something goes wrong. I reckon you really need to know how solder works otherwise you'll be sitting there wondering why the solder wont stick to the joint. Time and time again I've seen people are doing shit joints because they've burnt off all the flux and they end up with a huge blob on the board, wondering why it wont work.

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 12:42:51 am
content: I have one of the third hand devices and it is crap. I use one of these Panavises:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JC7FM0Works great on small to large boards. Legs up from the third hands. Just did my first SMD soldering with it last night. Worked great.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 08:20:51 am
content: QuoteMulticore is just a sales gimmick from the company of the same name.May be noticeable on large wire diameters, but at the sort of sizes used in electronics there is no difference between single and multi cored solder.Just so long as it does have a flux core. You rarely see non cored electronics (as opposed to plumbing) solder - I've only ever seen it in Russia.On the subject of holding boards down, a lump of blu tak is often very effective

author: Mercator
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 06:08:44 pm
content: Hi,I don't get why Dave hates those soldering irons that have a direct connection to the mains. I'm not an electronics professional (mechanical engineering student) and I only use through hole parts, but for years I used the cheapest solder (1mm) and an Ersa soldering iron with a direct connection to the mains and I never had any problems with it! And if so, I used a solder sucker and did it again. No problem.Don't get me wrong: I'm sure a soldering station and expensive super thin multicore solder make great joints, but the cheap stuff works as well.Oh, by the way: My soldering iron has a conical tip!

author: dengorius
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 08:27:52 pm
content: Quote from: Mercator on June 20, 2011, 06:08:44 pmBecause they're basically firesticks. While they're ok for soldering some PTH components, they're not very good for fine pitched SMD or temperature sensitive parts. Beside that, most of the time the tips and heating elements are made of low quality materials and worn out pretty quickly.Without a good quality, temperature regulated soldering iron is much easier to get cold joints, damage parts or even scorch the board.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 08:33:08 pm
content: There is nothing wrong with the conical tip that is supplied with a soldering iron. I have been quite happy to use one. I needed to widen a hole in a plastic box and it was EXACTLY the correct size.Neil

author: Vertigo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 04:49:51 am
content: i get the impression that Dave feels that being limited to only trough hole componentsis not going to be an option for much longer even for hobbyists.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 07:33:53 am
content: In regards to solder wire size, once you go down to 0.3mm size you will find that there's very little flux inside them you will have to work quickly before they oxidize under heat. In most cases extra flux helps. I find that 0.5mm is a bit thick for SMT soldering but it contains adequate flux.In my experience, 0.2mm conical tips is best for SMT, get the short ones, not long ones. Short tips has faster thermal recovery than long tips that's why some people have problem with thermal transfer. If you add flux to your soldering area I don't see why heat don't move around. Flux is a good thermal conductor. I do about 2500 SMT solder joints per week, mostly SOT, 0603, 0805 sizes.I like the higher end hakko FX-951 which has the tip and temperature sensor coupled tightly like wise for JBC irons. The thermal recovery is much better on these tips. I like how Antex implement their sleeve tips, there's a leaf spring in it that secures the tip to the heating element. It's a tight fit means good heat transfer.For the Hakko 93x/888 units, I recommend copper shims from K&S metals of 0.002 or 0.003" thickness wrapped around the heating element before inserting the tips. I used this trick for many years it seems to work well. If you look carefully, there's iron shim in the original tip, if you can remove it, then replace it with a thicker shim it will be best. When fitting a shim make sure it's not too tight so there's room for the heating element to expand.

author: Big Gaz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 05:58:11 pm
content: Hi All,I found Dave's SMD work very enlightening. I have always avoided SMD's and if challenged I used the finest tip I could find and applied solder pin by pin.I'm in the market for a new soldering iron and after Dave's recommendation I have been looking at the FX888. We only have one stockiest here in the UK.Can anyone provide the Hakko model/part number for the concave tip Dave was using for the sweep motion SMD workRegardsGarry

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 06:57:35 pm
content: If you don't use a lot of solder buy the small reel size (about the size of a half roll of electrical tape). I've found that solder can oxidise on the top layer if left untouched for a few months and it can make solder flow difficult. We used to buy 500grmspools and it could sit in the cupboard for years before being used up. Another tip is to get an old 35mm film container, wrap solder around the outside like a spring, pop it inside the container and put a small hole in the lid. Pass one free end through the hole and pop on the lid. This helps to keep the solder clean and free from sweat from the hands. You are also not holding the solder and absorbing lead.

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 07:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on June 21, 2011, 06:57:35 pmI've been using some small solder that I acquired 26 years ago. It flows fine. I've used about 1/2 pound of the 1 pound roll. Good quality solder and flux make this not a problem.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 08:49:32 pm
content: Quote from: sacherjj on June 21, 2011, 07:17:17 pmThis is true flux will cause the oxide and other crap to pool on the surface. However this is part of the problem as the small pitch (and lack of leads in some cases) of smd devices can cause solder bridges due to this oxidation residue not allowing it to wick correctly.It's not a major problem but one that can catch out the novice and can be very difficult to correct if it gets under the device. If you have a large stock of old solder then by all means use it, but if you are buying new, don't bulk buy if you are a low volume user, unless you have a good reason.

author: pmrlondon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 08:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on June 21, 2011, 06:57:35 pmAh, a DIY dispenser.The Multicore brand solder I have came in dispensers - one a metal one that may well date from the 1970s, the other a plastic one from 1988 or so. The lead-free Maplin solder is also in a much smaller plastic dispenser. I agree, avoiding handling the solder directly is a good idea, on all the points mentioned.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 09:02:15 pm
content: Quote from: pmrlondon on June 21, 2011, 08:51:22 pmYep the old multicore 'Steradent' tubes were great but sadly no longer availing AFAIK. But a diy version is just as goodOne enhancement is to pass the solder through a narrow bore tube first, supposed to help prevent snagging.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 10:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on June 21, 2011, 09:02:15 pmSparkfun has tubeshttp://www.sparkfun.com/products/9162Ebay hashttp://cgi.ebay.com/12-Lot-Solder-60-40-Rosin-Core-Electronics-Tube-/300569950191(12 tubes in a single lot).But these tubes with no-name solder are four or five times more expensive than spools with no-name solder.

author: pmrlondon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 04:29:27 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on June 21, 2011, 10:06:37 pmThey are about the same as the Antex/Iroda/Maplin ones. The Multicore ones were quite a bit thicker.

author: Trigger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 06:11:36 am
content: Quote from: FreeThinker on June 21, 2011, 08:49:32 pmIt still sits on the shelf with the spools, and who knows how long it's been sitting there. There are some flux types that are more effected by age than others, but if you're using additional liquid or paste flux anyway, and you should be with SMD, it's a moot point.

author: ABCD
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2011, 02:09:22 am
content: What size chisel tip was Dave using in this episode? I was researching the FX-888 and accessories and wow, there are many tip types available.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2011, 05:57:04 am
content: Quote from: Vertigo on June 21, 2011, 04:49:51 amIt's not. There is just so much cool stuff available in SMD only.And SMD is easy, no harder than through hole really.Dave.

author: copiertalk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2011, 09:22:54 pm
content: .5 mm solder? would smaller be better as I am doing more and more smd work. I would like smaller but I am not sure what to look for. Any tips on this? mouser is my prefered vendor.I would rather not have flux in my solder. I have found my own that I like for each application that I work on. I kinda would prefer if the solder did not come with the manufacturers flux involved.is the chipquik stuff worth it?

author: dopplershift
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2011, 08:46:29 am
content: Has anyone be able to find a supplier (in Australia?) for the hollow-point tip that Dave recommends for SMT work? I've tried searching for hollow-tips, well-tips, wicking-tips, hoof-tips etc...

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2011, 08:48:04 am
content: Many moons ago, I did a High Reliability Hand Soldering course run by Telecom Australia.It was a great course,the two blokes that ran it travelled all over Australia with a couple of big road cases of Royel & Pace rework stations,so you learnt on properly maintained equipment.Three things in particular were stressed:-(1) Cleanliness--you had to make sure the joint was clean,plus clean any contamination from the solder before use using solvent ona Kimwipes or similar,sheet.(2) Cut the solder before each joint,exposing fresh flux .(3) Use Liquid resin flux where appropriateThe desoldering tools came with multiple tips,& we were taught to select the correct tip to fit the lead size,reduce the temp to a little below normal soldering temp,place the tip over the lead,so the lead end went into the tip hole.As soon as the solder began to melt,wiggle the tool to break the mechanical connection,& only then,operate the vacuum pump.I liked the Royel stuff better than PACE,but it was more expensive,& now has gone out of business.VK6ZGO

author: Freighternut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 09:42:31 am
content: Okay, I'm confused!I am half way through a 2.5 kg roll of 0.87 mm 60/40 solder that I brought about 30 years ago.This still solders very well but as Dave and others pointed out is way too big for smaller pad sizes and SMD. On smaller pads I end up withan ugly blob as it is so difficult to control the amount of solder being applied with the large wire size.I started hunting for some smaller wire, around 0.5 mm and soon became over whelmed with the choices available. My currentthinkling is towards Multicore 0.51 mm 63/37 CRYSTAL 400 1% 0.020DIA/25SWG from Digikey, see link below.http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=82-116-NDI have a couple of questions re this choice:1. I assume, because I can find any information on it that the 1% relates to the proportion of flux to solder. Is 1% adequate?2. The flux in this product is the NO-CLEAN type. This sounds good, but should I look for the more traditional RA or RMA fluxes?I would very like to hear what others are using in these smaller and more modern types of solder wire.Many thanks, Roger...

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 09:54:24 am
content: Have a look online for your nearest Jaycar store,(there are quite a few in NZ)& buy some 60/40 or 63/37 over the counter.The smallest they have is 0.75 mm,but it is small enough for most work.While you are there,pick up a Jaycar catalogue.Buying stuff of the internet for a quite small saving is not worth the hassle--over the counter gives you instant gratification,instead of waiting for days or weeks.If you find another local supplier,the same applies to them.VK6ZGO

author: Freighternut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 12:26:49 am
content: Thanks, VK6ZGO,Yes, I have had a look at my local Jaycar. They only carry a fraction of the Jaycar range and only have 1 mm 60/40 in stock. They would need to order it in for me.I buy quite a lot from Digikey, mostly stuff that is hard to find here in small town NZ. I have had great success with ordering from Digikey, if you spend over NZ$150 freight is free to NZ.73's ZL1VCC

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 09:45:09 am
content: Quote from: Freighternut on July 18, 2011, 12:26:49 amThat's "more fool" Jaycar!In their catalogue they crow about how many stores they have.I'm sorry to hear that they have gone the Tandy route,not stocking some components in NZ.Jaycar's mail order business is fairly good (in OZ,at least) so that's another option,or RS Components.The Digikey solder sounds like the real deal,though,so if you get a good price,it's probably the way to go!73, VK6ZGO(It's fun mystifying the non-hams with our "secret handshake".)PS:- That's weird,the "quote" dropped your first few sentences.

author: pb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2011, 04:14:15 am
content: Quote from: ABCD on June 25, 2011, 02:09:22 amI didn't see an answer to this... I'm curious too.Is there a rule of thumb for tip size?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2011, 05:04:00 am
content: Quote from: pb on July 31, 2011, 04:14:15 amThe general answer about tip size is "big enough to supply sufficient heat to the work, but not so big that it can't be positioned accurately".I have a Hakko FX-888 that comes with a small chisel tip as standard, but even that small tip is big enough to make effective joints with quite large wires.If you have not seen them already, Hakko have some very nice videos showing how to use various tip shapes:http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/

author: pmrlondon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2011, 08:56:34 am
content: I am now the owner of a temperature controlled soldering station - I've been given a "buy yourself something" thank you from work and thought that one of those was a good idea - especially as this one is currently a third off normal price.It's a Maplin A55KJ - made in China like just about everything else these days, of course, and the instructions show a few definitely clumsy translations.The replacement iron is not listed on the web yet but is on Maplin's store stock system, showing as a "not yet" item.The iron comes fitted with a conical tip. A replacement tip pack is available containing a small chisel-like tip and two conicals, one of which is finer. I bought the tip pack straight away and fitted the chisel-like (called a general) tip straight away.I haven't yet made any joints with it - see my post elsewhere about removing enamel - but am sure it will prove itself a worthy addition to my kit. Even my partner can understand how the gas iron could be "too hot" for some work.I have not yet decided exactly how to store this kit.. my rolling workshop has little room left in the top box, but I managed to get the iron and stand in there for now. The control unit has had to go in the bottom - with the extension lead. I might move the iron and stand to be with it at a later date.