First hobbyist oscilloscope. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 04:45:47 am
content: Hi, I am buying my first oscilloscope as a senior EE , I have a very limited student budget and I recently got a gift card for newegg that I want to use toward the scope. I was actually thinking about buying the siglent SDS1072CML but the one from the following manufacturer listed below on newegg is directly from china so I am holding off from now because I dont trust the companies that are strictly based in china. Also I checked their seller page on newegg and it doesn't say anything about after service warranty from siglent which is another concern of mine(maybe they are not authorized sellers). I might go with the siglent SDS1052DL eventhough it is very low end but might be just what I need to start my small workshop at home for now, and this one is sold by Tequipment on newegg and I know they stand behind their products. please advise.thanks

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 05:03:17 am
content: Welcome to the forum.Please place your country flag in your profile for local advice.This very recent thread maybe will answer some of your questions:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1102cnl-vs-sds1102cml-(100mhz)/Tequipment offer a discount for EEVblog members, contact them.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 08:38:52 am
content: Budget?The absolute best bang for the budget is this:http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/Rigol DS1054Z. Unbelievably good value for the money at ~400USD.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 09:24:21 am
content: Another vote for the Rigol DS1054Z.For a few bucks more, you get 4 channels, and it can be hacked to 100MHz and enable all of it's software options.PM sent (makes it less than $400).

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 04:43:08 am
content: Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought about this for a long time and came to the conclusion that I cannot afford the extra 100 dollars for the rigol for now. As I need to buy a power supply, a soldering station(a good one about 130 dollars hakko) and some other small equipment to start the work. This all piles up to a hefty price for a college student. I think I will wait a little then invest on the rigol or just buy the siglent which might be more than what I need for now. I dont use the scope a lot I just need one handy at home because sometimes it is nice to take a look at the output when dealing with AC signals and PWM. thanks for your time and for the coupon. =)PS. I really like this blog I wish I found out about this years ago!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 12:25:44 pm
content: Quote from: backd00r on April 01, 2015, 04:43:08 amWhere are you getting a $100 price difference?Best price I've seen on the Siglent SDS1052DL was $329 shipped on eBay.Rigol DS1054Z can be had for $375.06 shipped.From the above prices, the cost difference is only $46.06.Bit easier to tolerate.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 01:24:57 pm
content: Quote from: backd00r on April 01, 2015, 04:43:08 amThen wait a few more weeks/months, you definitely won't regret it. Nothing else comes close to the DS1054Z in terms of value for money (see EEVBLOG videos - Dave made a whole series on the DS1054Z because it was so amazing).Or ... learn to beg/borrow!

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 02:57:15 pm
content: Ok guys you pursued me to buy the rigol I will wait a couple more weeks and buy it. Tequipement told me they will have it on Newegg in a week or so. Also I saw that rigol has a couple of scopes that have built in wavegenerators are they better value at ($800). Thanks for your input on this.

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 03:14:45 pm
content: Also This is my list of things that I will be buying with the scop let me know if you have better tools in mind withing this price range:-Hakko FX888D soldering station- Dr.Meter Single-Output DC Power Supply HY3003D ($64 with shipping)-Mastech AC/DC Auto/Manual Range Digital Multimeter, MS8268 ($28)Thanks

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 05:08:34 pm
content: Quote from: backd00r on April 01, 2015, 02:57:15 pmBuy it directly from TEquipment's own site to be sure you get the discount.They also sell the Hakko FX-888D you're after, as well as tips. Free shipping in the US for orders over $99 if you want to split these up.Slightly cheaper to get the DS1074Z-S than the DS1054Z + DG1022A, but only by $75.20. And if you can compromise on the AFG a bit (i.e. the DG1022, which is 20MHz instead of 25MHz), you can actually get separate units for less money than the DS1074Z-S.PM sent.

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 04:38:29 am
content: TEquipment have awsome costumer servise they posted the rigol on Newegg I pulled the trigger on it. The only thing that I am wondering is this a good power supply?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1PK0JM2371

author: skyjumper
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 08:01:17 am
content: So are you thinking about after you graduate? I would think that there are labs you can use at school, or electronics clubs with their own labs...

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 08:43:19 am
content: Buy a good quality used analog oscilloscope unless you devote solely to digital electronics.Much can be done in analog and power electronics with an analog oscilloscope.No need for a dso.On this forum, many believe that a sophisticated measuring device is essential.This is wrong .... it does not replace the intelligence nor the knowledge nor the experience.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 09:23:42 am
content: Quote from: oldway on April 03, 2015, 08:43:19 amThis is nonsense. A modern scope like the DS1054Z is far more useful for practically any type of electronics work. If you don't trust the advice on the forum, read this:Quote from: Horowitz and Hill: The Art of Electronics (Third Edition)That's fairly unequivocal, wouldn't you agree?QuoteIt's not essential; you can do a lot with a soldering iron and a multimeter. But a DSO gives vastly more information about what is going on, and that is invaluable when learning.QuoteOf course it doesn't. But a beginner by definition lacks knowledge and experience. The best way to acquire them is with decent tools.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 09:58:37 am
content: Non sense is what you write.Beginners need a dso for learning how a basic transistor amplifier or a NE555 works ?We have studied and worked for decades with analog oscilloscopes and it does not prevent us to be engineers whose expertise is recognized and admired.You are the kind of people who need a 200 HP car to drive in town at 40 km / h.Try using as best as possible the measuring instruments that you have (and that you can pay !), it's already learn a lot and to be smart and creative.This is also part of the formation of a good electronician: learn to do a lot with little.For a beginner, there are other priorities than expensive and sophisticated measurement instruments, for example, tools and parts.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 10:31:28 am
content: Quote from: oldway on April 03, 2015, 09:58:37 amAnd Horowitz and Hill, they write nonsense as well, huh?QuoteYou think a senior EE student doesn't already know how those work?QuoteThat's very admirable, I'm sure, but if you close your mind to advances in technology then the admiration is not going to endure.QuoteYou are the kind of person who tries to ride a penny-farthing bicycle on a modern motorway.(It's easy to hurl juvenile insults, but not very productive.)QuoteThis beginner is a senior electronics engineering student and has already stated that he can afford a DSO.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:52:30 am
content: It's obvious, an hobbyist absolutely need a dso, with an analog oscilloscope, we can not do anything !Look at the scopes of Jim Williams

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 01:04:51 pm
content: Guys I worked with digital scops for years now I am not going analog. I already bought the rigol and I think it is a very good scop for the money. I have been getting emails saying oh you should buy analog bla bla. I don't know why so many people in this forum have personal agendas toward analog scopes lol. Also away idea on the power supply is it any good or do you advise else?

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 01:26:56 pm
content: Quote from: backd00r on April 03, 2015, 01:04:51 pmIf it's a genuine Mastech supply then it's probably a cut above the shoddy identical-looking clones, but it's still very basic. Many people here would prefer a good quality second-hand supply for that sort of money. There are many threads on the forum discussing such supplies, and good ones are readily available in the States. Power Designs PSUs are inexpensive and very well thought of, for example.

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 01:44:58 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on April 03, 2015, 01:26:56 pmOk thank you I will do some ebay search on these.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 03:14:14 am
content: That power supply is probably the most cloned/copied power supply on eBay. You can find it or one of the variations cheaper there and with free shipping. Surely you can find one with a better brand label than "Dr. Meter".

author: backd00r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 03:51:48 am
content: Quote from: rdl on April 04, 2015, 03:14:14 amany cheap DYI power supplies you might suggest to start with? I also want to learn a little in the process not just the price. Thanks.

author: Rupunzell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 03:56:53 am
content: Analog time domain instruments (O'scopes) can do stuff DSO's cannot.Maybe in time you'll discover and learn about this fact... depending on what you're working on.BerniceQuote from: backd00r on April 03, 2015, 01:04:51 pm

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 05:45:28 am
content: Quote from: backd00r on April 04, 2015, 03:51:48 amThere really isn't. I think the only people still making diy educational type power supplies are Elenco. They're not bad, but more expensive than the cheap stuff on eBay and relatively lacking in features. A possible decent inexpensive power supply would be one of the Korad programmables. They got a bad rep because Dave had one of the early version break during his review, but Korad seems to have fixed the problem.

author: frizz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 04, 2015, 11:19:38 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 31, 2015, 09:24:21 amI'm a new hobbyist, and just getting started. As an example, I am still trying to fully understand the 555, and I thought I was hot stuff when I controlled the brightness on an LED with a pot-controlled transistor. Total noob.I am thinking about buying a Rigol DS1054Z. Is there still a way to get it for less than $399 on TEquipment's site?Also, Amazon has the Siglent SDS1052DL for $279 shipped from Amazon or TEquipment. Very tempting! However, I may just go cheap and get the tiny, open-source DSO Nano Oscilloscope v3 by Seeed Studio for under $100 and upgrade later. (http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/DSO-Nano-v3-p-1358.html)Any comments about these three options & getting a discount on the Rigol?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2015, 11:39:14 am
content: Quote from: frizz on July 04, 2015, 11:19:38 amYes, the code is still active, and there's a few ways to get it.Initiate a Live Chat during business hours.Pick up the phone and call during business hours.Or wait on the generosity of others to send you a PM.Regarding Siglent v. Rigol, I'd hold off if possible to see what shakes out, as another member recently indicated Siglent has a new model coming out to compete with the DS1000Z series (tautech, who also happens to be a Siglent dealer in NZ).I'd skip the DSO Nano Oscilloscope by Seeedstudio entirely.

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2015, 01:11:07 pm
content: Avoid the DSO Nano unless you want to have your enthusiasm for electronics crushed.The only suitable place for the DSO Nano and that general family of devices is the rubbish bin.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 09:00:56 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 04, 2015, 11:39:14 amThanks for the plug but IMHO it's a bit early to recommend waiting for the new Siglent. We dealers are often offered pre-release units for evaluation, then we know accurately how it is spec'ed and how it measures up against the competition.AFAIK it's a few months away yet.Quote from: frizz on July 04, 2015, 11:19:38 am@ frizzWelcome to the forum.As it seems you are still finding your wayI'll give you a few things to consider.A flag in your profile can help with local recommendations.for choosing to go with a new DSO.DSO sampling rates:The ADC determines this, let's say 1Gsa/s shared between 2 or 4 channels. Obviously the 4 ch DSO will be limited to 250 Msa/s with all channels active while a 2 channel unit will have 500Msa/s that will be much better at capturing and displaying non-periodic waveforms like the glitches and fast spikes encountered when troubleshooting.While little DSO memory will accomplish most tasks, 2 Mb is considered a good minimum choice.I've also believed 400V capable channel inputs to be better for newbies, just in case usage mistakes are made so your precious new DSO has less chance of being.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 03:58:42 pm
content: If I may, I would like to also suggest you avoid Mastech multimeters. I would buy almost anything else other then that brand. For $50 you can get the Uni-T UT139C shipped to your door. I know it is almost twice your budget but I am sure it will make you much happier in the end.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325Or consider this one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitek-DT-4000ZC-TekPower-TP4000ZC-Data-Logging-Multimeter-with-Temperature-/200912705694You get a PC cable with it too.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 06:19:56 pm
content: Quote from: frizz on July 04, 2015, 11:19:38 amEvery hobby has a barrier of entry, and you will find in electronics just like in any other hobby if you buy cheap you will be buying twice on most items.Rigol DS1054Z has the best bang per buck on the market right now, and possibly for the foreseeable future. Anything cheaper or more expensive is less for your money.Now that Siglent for $279 is a usable scope. It is not great but it's usable. Anything that calls itself a scope cheaper than what Siglent offers with SDS1052DL is not a real scope. Yes you can get a discount on the Rigol from Tequipment. You're looking at less than $100 difference between the two scopes (with the discount). Would I go for a Rigol over that Siglent for less than $100 difference. In a heart beat, it's a much much better scope.Get yourself a Rigol with a discount through Tequipment and an Amprobe 510 or the UNI-T lightgages suggested. And you will have a setup many of us would have dreamed off when we first started.edit: The only other way to spend less on a scope would be to go for an old analog $50-$100 scope. These scopes are great for repetitive signals, but you can't do single shot capture with them, which is really handy. However they are definitely usable. The problem however is. Ebay is hit or miss, and I often see decent old analog scopes on ebay go for way more money than what they are worth, people tend to buy them for nostalgia not as a bargain. Also you probably won't be able to judge what's a decent analog scope bargain, because all the good scopes we can suggest are the popular choices which usually command a premium. So really your options are: Rigol DS1054Z (one option).

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 02:12:01 am
content: From a newbieI started with used analog scopes first and out of 3 all 3 had problems, one busted in the mail, one was busted, and the third one has so many problems I hate getting near it. Lost a lot of money trying to get an used analog scope, so I would suggest do not try. But if you like to gamble, go for it.The fourth and five scopes were a Rigol DS1054 and a DSO 112 and I like them both, and I use the DSO 112 more just because it amazes me and is very "cute" and I use the Rigol to keep the DSO 112 honest (and so far it has been). I would be happy to have just the DSO as a beginner. For example I can see the ripple from a buck converter on the DSO 112 but not the high freq signals on the ripple (need the Rigol for that). You can do a lot of learning with a 2 meg bandwidth. If you get a DSO 112 make sure it has a battery, most do not.I also took advice on getting used Power Designs power supplies, and got 2 out of 3 good ones. I like their look better than new crap. I could suggest going this route. I think you could get to 90% good luck if you ask the seller to turn the voltage dial and see if the meter moves. But this takes time, look at ebay SOLD listings to get the values, not Buy It Now prices.If you want to go cheap on a ps, try a laptop supply and some buck converters. Hard to beat them and you can learn a little, this is what I am doing.I went for a couple $50 multimeters (found on the multimeter spreadsheet - I wanted ones that use AA batteries) and am happy with them. I use cheap Harbor Freight meters for current measurements because I am a newbie and I do not want to blow up my $50 meters when measuring currents.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 08:04:18 am
content: Quote from: backd00r on April 03, 2015, 01:04:51 pma) They grew up with them, andb) there used to be amuchbigger price difference between an old CRO and a decent DSO.But these days the CROs are all old/failing, the price difference has almost vanished (thanks to the DS1054Z), CROs take up a lot of bench space and ... there's not much point. DSOs are just better.Unless you can score a CRO at a real bargain price (ie. very close to 'free')andget to try before you buy to make sure it all works then just keep saving up for the DSO. A few months waiting to score a brand new DS1054Z vs. spending (wasting?) $100 of your savings on an old analog 'scope? Not a difficult decision.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 03:05:17 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 06, 2015, 08:04:18 amb) they are stuck in their ways and incapable to make the leap into the digital ageUnfortunately the last point is pretty common with many older EEs. When they were taught there were no digital scopes just analog ones, and after completing their education they often worked for decades on some analog circuitry where analog scopes were good enough for the task. They might even have looked at analog scopes briefly somewhere in the very early 90's when DSOs were slow and limited (inferior to analog scopes for most general tasks while being much more expensive), but then quickly dismissed them as some kind of fancy toy.Many of these EEs are great analog engineers, but completely lost with anything digital, and they are regularly completely overwhelmed when asked to perform some basic measurements on a modern advanced DSO. They only know a scope as a device for looking at waveforms, not as a signal analyzer that can give you signal information that with an analog scope you wouldn't even know it's there, and often have zero appreciation for how a DSO works and how it is used sensibly. Which is fair enough in some way.All that for itself weren't that bad, however some of these oldtimers try to spread their ignorance by telling newcomers to EE to forego all progress in test and measurement equipment made within the last 25 years or so and follow their "old ways", while telling anyone who disagrees that they are simply "too young" (and supposedly stupid I guess). Sometimes they embarrass themselves by citing articles from the 90's talking about why analog scopes are better.The really sad part is that they might very well end up completely ruining a beginner's experience with electronics, if that poor guy made the mistake of not treating their "advice" the same way as great-grandpa's wartime stories.QuoteI can't agree more