Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 05:09:30 am
content: For the life of me, I couldn't find the old DE-5000 thread. Search kept bringing up all the other threads mentioning the DE-5000, so I am creating this one. Mods feel free to merge it into the other one if you know where it is. I originally wrote it to post at DIYAudio but I'll post it over here too. It's basically a big slow teardown in my usual picture heavy style.I picked up the meter, TL-21 (short aligator leads), TL-22 (SMD Tweezers) and TL-23 (Guard lead) for $82 shipped on sale. Thanks Staze!Usual price is around $120 with all three options. The only option I did not get is the USB cable, as I have no need for it. To be honest I don't need TL-23 either but this price was significantly cheaper than the meters that had only TL-21 and TL-22. Packaging could have been better as they all came in a padded envelope.This device is true full-featured LCR. It has measurement frequencies of DC/100Hz/120Hz/1kHz/10kHz/100kHz. The highest frequency used to be the domain of only bench meters; hobby meters often only went to 1kHz or 10kHz if you were willing to pay for it. It wasn't until recently that a hobbyist could afford a 100kHz LCR. On top of this, the meter can measure theta - phase angle, D (akatan d) - dissipation factor, ESR, Q, series and parallel inductance, series and parallel capacitance, series and parallel resistance. It also has the ability to sort into bins:±0.25%, ±0.5%, ± 1%, ±2%, ±5%, ±10%, ±20%, and -20%+80%. Agilent has a similar handheld meter,the U1733C which costs ~$400. Basically all of these features are present on the Agilent and the Der EE, though the Agilent has one extra resistance range and has a few tenths of a percentage better accuracy on some ranges (for 4-5x the price). Here is a link to theenglish manual. It includes the detailed specs for this instrument as well.Now as Dave Jones as EEVBlog says: "Don't turn it on! Tear it down!" and that's exactly what I am going to do. First, its time to tear down the optional parts.First the TL-21 short alligator leads:Here we see the leads, interestingly we see both jacks and gold plated tabs that fit into the slots on the front of the meter. On the surface, they don't appear all that special. Just some alligator clips and a plastic box.Opening up the box by removing the two screws tells a very different story though. We can clearly see a Kelvin-style four-wire connection PLUS guard lines (the copper wires) for even more accurate reads at high impedance or low values. This is actually very impressive and was something I was NOT expecting.Flipping the board over we can see that the signals go entirely through the tabs. The jacks on the adapter are not connected and as such are solely used for mechanical stability. The jacks on the meter on the other hand ARE connected (more on that later) they just aren't used with the adapter.This banana jack for the external guard isn't just a hollow tube soldered to the board; it's milled to shape from a metal rod (or cast piece). This is a sign of quality and not cutting every corner possible.The same box is used for these alligator leads and for the SMD tweezers. It would have been nice to see a grommet here on that hole. Even though its completely unnecessary it would just look better.A few quick pictures of the TL-23 guard lead. The only thing to note is that the banana plug is milled from a solid piece of metal. Once again, a nice sign. In the second image, I try to show how each quarter is actually solid metal, not hollow.Now for the last option, the SMD tweezers!The lead on the tweezers feels like silicone or some other very soft rubber. The lengths is quite good for in-circuit testing.The short alligator leads were surprisingly well designed and the tweezers follow in that path. Inside the box is 100% identical to the aligator leads, meanwhile at the tweezer end we see our familiar four wire + guard lines.The four wires end just before the tips. This is not QUITE as ideal as ending at the tips but for this meter should be suitable enough. We aren't measuring sub-milliohm resistences here. Where is the guard though?On the back of the board, of course, shielding those long traces from noise and stray signals. In fact, it's basically the entire backside of these boards. I tried to show the raised copper pour which is ALL guard plane. This is attention to detail that you wouldn't expect out of such a budget meter. It is starting to become VERY obvious that this meter is not built like a budget meter. Maybe that is why IET Labs chose to OEM this meter from Der EE (and charge 4-5x the price).OK, enough teasing you. Time for the main event!Well it's a box, with a bunch of Japanese on it (Der EE is a Taiwanese company). The manual inside is all in Japanese as well. Luckily there is an English manual available on line. See the top of this thread.One is the loneliest number that you'll ever see.....This is how you know it didn't ship from China (besides the fact I have the invoice and tracking directly from Japan). China Post has a ban on ALL batteries. Plus it is made in Taiwan.And here it is in all its glory! The meter is a pretty decent size, I'd put it close to the size of a Fluke 87V. The plastic feels normal and solid: not great like the Uni-T UT61E but not cheap like most other meters either.One thing I want to note before flipping the meter over to open it up. The banana jacks are split jacks. Allowing you to use certain kelvin adapters to extend the kelvin connections outside the case. If you use normal bananas you at least get kelvin connection to the banana plug.Flipping it over, we see a whole bunch of screws and a tilting bail. The top two and bottom two screws hold the case together, while the inner four screws hold the battery door on. Nice and secure. Oddly enough, the tilting bail has holes for mounting it onto a wall. We can also see one area they cut a corner. The place where the USB jack attaches appears to be filled with a foam rubber square. I would have liked to have seen some sort of hard plastic cover here. Once again it works and likely works well (this isn't a ruggedized DMM, it is a specialty instrument) but it would be nice to see some thing a bit better. Yeah it is a bit nit-picky, just like the grommet, but I have few things to criticize so I am left with nit-picky stuff.Removing the four screws and lifting the battery door shows the battery space underneath. We are once again met with a pleasant surprise. Threaded brass inserts! For something that will be accessed on a somewhat regular basis; this is a really nice thing to see. The battery is a very snug fit, in a good way.Removing the four outer screws, we can open the case. No brass inserts this time but its not surprising. You would not be opening the case often at all, especially compared to a multimeter. Instead, you get captive screws (once you unscrew them, they just spin instead of coming all the way out) so that you can't lose them. Very nice! We also get our first look at the board. The upper IC is labeled DM5000-1C, it's actually a Cyrustek ES51919. The lower chip is labeled DM5000-2C, it is actually the sister chip to the ES51919, the ES51920.datasheet hereRemoving eight screws (ignoring the four that hold on the LCD) you can remove the entire PCB. Not much to see on the other side. Just another view of the split jacks.One thing you may note is the lack of any sort of input protection. This is actually intentional. This is NOT a multimeter and as such should not be subjected to ANY voltages (including charged capacitors). Input protection adds capacitance and inductance to the inputs, much of it which can't be zero'd out. So to create a high-accuracy meter the input protection has to be dropped.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 06:01:03 am
content: OK, lets get some images of it functioning!Did I mention it has a blue backlight?How well does it work? Very well! Here it is measuring a 2-milliohm 1% resistor. Frankly, I expected it to read basically zero. In fact, if it read zero it would STILL be in spec! The fact that it is only one count off is pretty impressive. I tested on a few other resistors and they fell WAY within spec. I didn't take pics mainly because I was lazy.Anyways, on to some more testing!Here I am testing a 35V 560uF Panasonic/Matsushita FM capacitor. It reads 527.3uF (-5.83% which is acceptable for a +/- 20% capacitor). I measured it at 120Hz as per the data sheet. D (called tan ? in thedatasheet) is 0.038. According to the datasheet a healthy capacitor is less than 0.12 for the 35V version. ESR is 0.1ohms. The datasheet does not give a figure for ESR. As these capacitors are considered low inductance, it does give a figure ofr that. Inductance is measured at 100kHz (not possible on other cheaper meters) and according to the datasheet should be less than 0.018ohms. Sure enough, it reads 0.01ohms. As an aside, notice though how much the capacitance has dropped at 100kHz, this is typical for an electrolytic capacitor.Lastly, I want to address why D (tan ?) is a better indicator of capacitor health than ESR. In the above images I show an AUDIO grade capacitor (let's not get into that) the Nichicon FW (0.1uF, 100V). If you were looking only at the ESR, you would be thinking OMG this cap is dead!:eek: This is CLEARLY not a low-ESR capacitor. According to thedatasheeta healthy capacitor should have a D of less than 0.08, this cap has 0.013. It is clearly healthy in spite of its ESR.Hopefully you enjoyed my post! Cheers. Drinking a wootStout 2.0 as I write this and am comfortably buzzed as we speak.

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 07:02:28 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/de-500-lcr-meter-oem/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-de-5000-measurement-accuracy/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/iet-de-5000-lcr-meter-in-uk/

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 07:16:10 am
content: Quote from: omgfire on July 20, 2014, 07:02:28 amThe first one is the one I was looking for. Thanks mate! Mods feel free to merge this into that one if you wish!

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 07:26:28 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 20, 2014, 05:09:30 amI suspect it is the Japanese language.

author: torr032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 07:29:56 pm
content: So can it measure ESR in circuit or not? I am baffled I see someone says it can, someone it can't.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 07:33:58 pm
content: Quote from: torr032 on July 20, 2014, 07:29:56 pmThe reason that you see that mix is because it's borderline. From what i understand test voltage is 600mV. For some sensitive devices it might be enough to activate them. For most others it won't.

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 07:43:03 pm
content: The links you supplied need correcting. It looks like some quotes were added around the link.Did your meter come with a cal certificate or a copy of any performance test?I am trying to track down the manufacturer's calibration procedure / performance test. I did not receive anything with my IET branded meter.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 08:05:51 pm
content: Quote from: ManateeMafia on July 20, 2014, 07:43:03 pmThanks, fixed the links. Not sure what happened there.I did not recieve any sort of calibration documents. I thought that was the whole point of the IET labs, the value they added. They would supply cal documents with the device. If they don't even do that, its pretty ridiculous.By the way, IET labs just announced a DE-6000. Don't get excited it is almost completely marketing bullshit. The only specs that have changed at all are Resistance at 1kHz ( 200, 2k and 20k ohms ranges are now 0.2%+2 instead of 0.3%+2), Capacitance at 1kHz ( 20, 200 and 2000nF ranges are now 0.2%+2 instead of 0.3%+2). It also lists DCR as improved but if you compare the specs in the Der EE DE-5000 datasheet to the DE-6000 specs, there is NO difference.I have a feeling IET Labs was tired of getting its lunch eaten. They realized that since they calibrate their meters they could tighten the specs from 0.3% to 0.2%. Give it a new part number (higher of course so people think its dramatically better) and hope that people think that its some dramatic improvement and buy theirs instead of the DER EE one.

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 08:18:35 pm
content: I will have to dig around. If I got anything, it would have been a basic cert without data.Don't be surprised if a DER EE DE-6000 pops up on eBay. IET probably had the manufacturer make improvements like adding input protection.I wonder if it is based on the same chipset or something newer? Either way the manufacturer probably sold 10x or more units on eBay than through IET.

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 08:36:56 pm
content: After looking at the specifications, the biggest change is the color and model number. Even the DCR Accuracy is still the same even though it is listed as improved.Probably a minor revision to the board and nothing more.

author: joshhunsaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 08:37:42 pm
content: Be careful of those, I had one and returned it because there is no reverse polarity protection on the battery terminal. You accidentally drop a 9v facing the wrong way into that compartment and your meter willimmediatelybe toast (without even hitting a power button and yes, I found this out from experience). In fact, a single second of reverse polarity contact almost caused the battery to explode (heated up to around 120F almost instantly). That'sbaddesign in my book.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 08:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: joshhunsaker on July 20, 2014, 08:37:42 pmDo you know which board revision yours had? Mine has a reverse biased diode directly across the battery inputs, which I have seen many times before a common way to prevent damage if you reverse install a battery. A better way would have been some sort of bridge rectifier but a reverse biased diode is common enough to be acceptable.Maybe someone else can chime in with more knowledge if that is not true.

author: joshhunsaker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 09:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 20, 2014, 08:56:24 pmThe product I purchased was from ebay from a seller in Japan and was probably around 4 months ago. I'm not sure of the specific board revision. It's very possible that it got updated right after that. I did let the seller know about the problem. Itmayeven have been a fluke with a bad part (possibly).

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 10:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 20, 2014, 08:05:51 pmCal cert was always an additional cost option on the DE-5000. It was never included in the $330.00 price.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 10:38:45 pm
content: Hate to tell you this, but you are in error here...Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 20, 2014, 05:09:30 amAhem, sorry for the side track, but for future reference... It is not Chinese writing on the box. The characters you see on the box is Japanese - Katakana. There are a few Chinese characters dotted here a there as with typical Japanese Katakana writing.Classical Japanese writing would be hard to tell from the Chinese. Classical Japanese call Kanji is Chinese based and as far as I know all Chinese, but Katakana is much simplified with just a few Chinese characters. Even today, few Japanese literature scholar consider themselves complete unless they can read/write Kanji. Kanji literally means Han Writing. Han is what Chinese often call themselves - along with Tong. Han and Tong are two of the longest lasting dynasties thus Chinese use Han-People or Tong-People to refer to themselves. The Chinese name of China town in the USA is called "Tong Yin Guy" - Tong people's street.Taiwan was at one time (WW II era) a colony of Japan (and was a Dutch colony at one time hence the name Formosa for Taiwan). Much Japanese culture and writing remains with the Taiwan culture. However, you wont see Chinese writing with Japanese characters.But it is wrong to say you are in error, you can consider yourself correct. Legend had it that the First Emperor of China Qin-Shi-Huang send 500 couples to populate the land now called Japan, and then another 500 couple to populate the land now called Korea. While the Japanese clothing and style (such as how they sit) matched exactly with Qin dynastic clothing and habit, this "populate the land" business (I believe) remained merely legend. If that legend is right, Japanese = Chinese, so you are correct.Rick

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 11:23:26 pm
content: Yeah my bad, I'll blame it on the 'wootSTOUT 2.0'. I actually initially thought it was japanese but then convinced myself that it wasn't.Fixed it

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2014, 02:46:57 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 21, 2014, 11:23:26 pmEasy mistake to make... You should see some of the big wooooppsss I've made - some even right here on this forum.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2014, 03:07:49 am
content: Very nice unboxing and teardown PedroDaGr8I have had the IET version way before Daves review. I am pretty sure I am responsible for IET sending him one for review. The extra digit of resistance resolution you mention on the Agilent is worthless when you add the +/- counts. Not to mention its not 4 wire kelvin connections.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2014, 03:12:51 am
content: By the way, for our American members, deth502 just mentioned that the sale is back on.$85 shipped for the meter and TL 21, 22 and 23.http://www.ebay.com/itm/261527961316Quote from: robrenz on July 22, 2014, 03:07:49 amThanks man! Wow did not know that, I expected better out of Agilent!

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2014, 05:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 20, 2014, 08:56:24 pmThere's someone else that also saw this, and of course, that diode blows from over current. So they're basically using it as a fuse.

author: torr032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 10:52:53 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 20, 2014, 07:33:58 pmWhat do you guys think can it be hacked to lower the testing voltage? I have only bought it for caps ESR and D mainly in circuit testing.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 11:01:53 am
content: I did in circuit testing of caps esr (in fact D is better) and so far it worked very well.dont forget that once the device is connected the 600mV will get lowerbut I understand it can be borderline with some boards.The more important thing is that it is not protected against charged capacitors, and so you'd better make/buy a dedicaced esr meterwith capacitor discharge IMHO.

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 01:04:57 pm
content: Quote from: torr032 on July 23, 2014, 10:52:53 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-and-tear-down-of-uni-t-ut612-lcr-meter/msg198457/#msg198457

author: wiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 07:15:55 pm
content: Pedro, I will hold you responsible, for me buying one of these of ebay today!88 + 8 USD from Japan to eurozone...

author: ThermalGuru
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 09:48:06 pm
content: Here is a tip. The TL-21 leads are silly short for lab bench use.It was easy enough to open the TL-21 box and solder in longer Kelvin leads. You can pick those up on Ebay.One example:http://www.ebay.com/itm/LCR-Meter-Test-Leads-Lead-Clip-Cable-Terminal-Kelvin-Clip-Wires-with-4-BNC-/181391981262?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3bcdfaceCheers

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 12:13:33 am
content: Greeting's All,I recieved my De-5000 about a week ago from Japan with the tweezers and alligatorclips and agree that the clips are a bit short for practical use. I am wondering ifsomeone out there is able to come up with a modification to address the concernabout input protection,ie: adding protection diodes or similar without adversly affecting the units accuracy.As Dave said in the video " I dont think there is enough".Also on the subject of the meter mods, I after ordering one realised that theUSB IR interface may be of some use and It appears that the software is not to bad.My issue is that the ebay seller wanted about $80 AUD + $15AUD for postage for theUSB IR alone yet in the video Dave indicated that it would be around $30.I cant find it anywere for that price and am consideringbuilding one if I cant get the original for a reasonable price.Another thought is to find on the chip the RS232 pins and go directserial possibly with optocouplers for isolation. Any Thoughts?Beest Regards ......Pete

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 12:52:29 am
content: Quote from: DoDaMaffs on July 24, 2014, 12:13:33 amMy DE-5000 is several years old but it has unpopulated footprints for input protection on the circuit board. Its just a matter of figuring out what the components should be.I just put a Postit note I put over the display that says DISCHARGE CAPS so I don't forget. I put it back on every time I put it away so I will always be reminded.

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 09:27:12 am
content: Reply to ROBRENZ,I agree that it is good practice to discharge the cap before testingon any meter, (and it is clearly declared in both the manual andon the meter itself) but sooner or later as we all do you grab thewrong meter probes from your cluttered bench or your mistresstaps you on the shoulder just as you are probing a lifted leg of a cap,and bingo, one rooted LCR meter.So can we confirm what the other meters that are using the CyrustekChipset are doing for front end protection. ie: Mastech, CEM, Uniturd( yes they are crap).Until recently I have never had a use for an LCR meter but whist machiningaluminium on the lathe suddenly the spindle hessitated and the motorstarted to sqeal like a pig, So I assumed a blown motor, I dismantled thelathe and tested the start and run caps with a shity DMM that was nearbyand the caps were in tolerance. I took the motor around to a fellow expectinga complete rewind but he rang two days later and said that the windings wereas new and the run capacitor had failed. I like you have a lot of machinerylathes, mills, ect and the fact that I somehow missed that faulty cap wasenough to justify the purchase of a dedicated meter.... Pete

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 10:10:50 am
content: Quote from: DoDaMaffs on July 24, 2014, 09:27:12 amThis great forum already contains PCB photos of Cyrustek ES51919/ES51920 based LCRs:V&A VA520/VA520B (PeakTech 2170, Voltcraft LCR 300, Axiomet AX-LCR42A, Aktakom AMM-3320, Kusam KM-520B) have places for diodes at the PCB bottom:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/some-photos-from-a-peaktech-2170-teardown/CEM DT-9935, Aktakom AMM-3035https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-lcr-meter-cem-dt-9935/msg194934/#msg194934Mastech MS5308https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/mastech-ms5308-lcr-tester-member-discount/UNI-T UT612, Tenma 72-10465https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-and-tear-down-of-uni-t-ut612-lcr-meter/msg198420/#msg198420Lutron LCR-9184, Extech LCR200https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/extech-lcr-200-repair/IET, DER EE DE-5000, Asita AS250.

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 12:54:48 pm
content: OMGFIRE,Thanks for the links, I was not aware of the other LCR posts and didnot know that there were so many similar variants. I will open mineup tomorrow and as robrenz said try and determine what componentsmay be added ( if any) to improve the unit.First Notes on LCR Testing;01.. ESR Charts are a waste of time, they vary greatly in valuesand are not specific to a pertcular manufacturer.Not sure about Q or Disipation Factors so I intend to use a sillysounding method that a mate has used with great success for over35 years in repairing TVs.He uses of all meters a Fluke 12 and has found that +0% -10% of ratedvalue regardless of voltage rating. That is if the cap measures above itsnominated value or falls more than 10% than value whilst the back ofthe TV is open and the soldering iron is hot that cap is out.So based on that concept I cant begin to imagine how many good capshe has discarded, But this works for him and I am not going to arguewith his method as it is not my field of expertise....Pete

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 01:00:12 pm
content: Furthermore,I did not mean to hijak the thead, so I will leave a space for others.Is that enough space, this is all new to me... Thanks Pete

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 02:01:16 pm
content: Does anybody know if using the mains adapter requires the battery to be removed? I have noticed that the DER meter is kinda hungry. Not too efficient to work on battery when matching parts values, such sessions can take quite long. I don't have the AC adapter and I could order one, but if it takes removing the battery to use it, that would be a big nuisance.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 02:15:46 pm
content: You donotneed to remove the battery when using the AC adapter.

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 02:18:49 pm
content: Thanks!

author: rstoer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 06:27:04 pm
content: Quote from: DoDaMaffs on July 24, 2014, 12:13:33 amIET LABS sells it for $39. It looks like it's out of stock though. Here's the link...http://www.ietlabs.com/de-5000-dtk.htmlI also see they're selling a DE-6000 now. That could explain why the DE-5000's have been showing up at bargain prices lately. Here's a excerpt from their website:"0.2% Accuracy up to 33% Improvement from discontinued DE-5000"A link to it:http://www.ietlabs.com/lcr-meter/de6000-lcr-meter.html

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2014, 07:12:31 pm
content: Quote from: DoDaMaffs on July 24, 2014, 12:54:48 pmI counted only 6 different Cyrustek based LCRs (16 if you count rebadge). But:UNI-T UT612 and CEM DT-9935 don't support proper 4 wire measurement.Mastech MS5308 has "hidden" calibration button and bulky case."Japanese" DE5000 is cheapest (for today) and don't have such problems.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 02:52:44 am
content: Quote from: rstoer on July 24, 2014, 06:27:04 pmAs I mentioned earlier if you compare the actual specs, the DE-6000 is the same as the 5000. A few minor improvements in spec that could easily be established by slightly more rigorous calibration.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 03:32:09 am
content: Quote from: omgfire on July 24, 2014, 07:12:31 pmAs an owner of MS5308, actually I love the bulky case, and with that it has a really huge & massive lcd display to ease my deteriorating eyes.And also with much-much bigger battery capacity, 8 AAsvs 9V battery. But maybe its just me.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 04:08:25 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 25, 2014, 03:32:09 amThe mastech is far from a bad lcr. I have a like/dislike relationship with the form factor. It's definitely not standard both good and bad. Plus the meter quality is quite good.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 04:10:41 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 25, 2014, 02:52:44 ambut... it'sBLUE

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 04:40:26 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 25, 2014, 04:08:25 amIndeed, it's accuracy is even better than the specification, some measurement results comparison versus a monsterous $13000LCR meter ->Wayne Kerr 6440B vs Mastech MS5308I guess the real magic and the secret recipe lies within the Cyrustek chipset.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 05:18:22 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 25, 2014, 04:40:26 amYeah I have the utmost respect for Cyrustek. They have made some awesome measurement it's, many of which have dramatically reduced the cost of measurement for us hobbyists. Also, they don't sell to just anyone, mmeaning the stuff that uses their ic's tends to be at least decent.

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 06:21:49 am
content: Please lets not get into the " my Reboks are brighter than yours" thingo.I was all ready to order the Mastech when the power supply issueoccured, 2nd choice was the IET DE 5000 then the japs offered upthe DER DE 5000, that was it all done at $100 US.Look at all them batteries, thats not far off 3 phase.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 06:22:54 am
content: QuoteI have my deree 5000 meter since october 2013 and still havent changed the "small" 9v battery !

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 08:36:56 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 25, 2014, 03:32:09 amBy the way, VA520 has 6 AAAs, but I don't understand how 4 wire measurement works there. At first glance VA520 has proper kelvin clip with 6 banana plugs.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/handheld-lcr-meter/msg410780/#msg410780But, isn't slot connector shorten sense and force?

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 12:40:27 pm
content: To OMGFIRE,My understanding is that the blade and slot type connection isa method of obtaining a kelvin type 2 x sense & 2 x source +sheild and retaining electrical isolation between those points.The blade is generaly double sided pcb.A meter may also use banana jacks for 4 wire kelvin but wouldthen need 4 jacks plus sheild. As seen on the VA 520.So dont be guided to buy a meter just because it has a slot,It may or may not be capable of 4 wire kelvin connections andlow ohms, also you may not require 4 wire for your particularapplication.I studied alot of forums and videos before buying an LCR andthe unit I chose has both split slots and split jacks so I caneither use the connections that it came with (4 wire)or standard probes (2 wire) or like Robrenz make my owncustom set.ROBRENZ has some fantasic utube video's on this subject,if you havent already seen them then you and everybodyelse interested in metering would be wise to have a look.Regards .....Pete

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 01:47:47 pm
content: I just had a look at that meter (VA520) and as I previously assumed itis using banana jacks ( possibly 2 x source & 2 x sense plus sheild)It looks nice, I have'nt looked at the specs but I think we can aggreethat most of these meters including my one are very much similar.Also what may be available in EU, UK, US and elsewere may not beobtained here in AUST, And to buy one here in store the onlychoices were BK or Agilent so I was lucky when the DE 5000was being offered here on ebay from Japan.All the best....Pete

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 01:57:56 pm
content: Thanks for the advertising and glad you liked the videos

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 02:40:35 pm
content: To ROBRENZI was considering doing a video to compliment yours bymaking 4 wire split banana's, but thought that as soon asI do the edit yours would be up.Been waiting 6 months, quality takes time and you take longer.Best Regards.....Pete

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 03:01:29 pm
content: @ DoDaMaffsGo for itI have no intentions of doing the split bananas.

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 03:05:50 pm
content: Quote from: DoDaMaffs on July 25, 2014, 12:40:27 pmAs I mentioned VA 520 has 6 bananas: 2 sense, 2 force, 2 shield. No problem here. But as I mentioned VA 520 also has a slot. If PCB is not inserted into slot, then slot might provide electrical connection between sense and force. What is the point of 6 banana jacks if VA 520 has electrical connection between sense and force inside meter due to slot?

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 03:56:32 pm
content: To OMGFIRE,I now understand your question and I may not be the mostqualified to answer, but will do my best.Yes you are correct, on my DE 5000 when the 4 wire bladeadaptor is removed the wipers make contact so a capacitoror resistor may be inscerted directly into the slot.We can only assume that the VA520 is the same.With the adaptor inscerted the junction point thenbecomes the end of the leads or clips.So to overcome the issue you would need to inscert adummy blank pcb or similar to use the banana jacks & leads.As you probably already know 4 wire kelvin wiring is the adoptedmethod for minimising induced capacitance and resitance thatthe test leads and probes introduce into the measurement.Best of luck .....Pete

author: DoDaMaffs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2014, 04:16:30 pm
content: Also, and you would know more than me about that meterI dont know what outboard adaptors are available for the unitbut the unit may be designed for 2 pin onboard testing (slot)and either 2 or 4 wire outboard testing (jacks)May be someone on the forum has one......Pete

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:19:27 pm
content: Nice, thanks for the review and photos.

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:39:42 pm
content: I came across thishttp://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=56&prodid=723a few days ago and wondered if it would fit the DE-5000. The biggest difference that I can see is that the Extech LCR200 has the guard and + inputs swapped with respect to the DE-5000. It shouldn't be a problem if you are left-handed.It would be nice to know if a LCR200 owner could measure their input spacing.I have not found any posts where someone has reviewed this option.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2014, 03:17:32 am
content: Came across a great use for the device today. I have this old filter/inductor/choke from an old centrifuge. It is pretty large, I put it next to the DE5000 for comparison. There is pretty much no information but it was connected directly to mains. The iron laminations indicate as expected its a filter for mains frequency. I decided to see if I could get a reading on it at 120Hz.So let's see how it does:Clearly its a 10000uH inductor., but I also can characterize is DC resistance and series resistance.We can also watch the inductance drop as the frequency increases.By getting its various values I know enough about this inductor for it to be useful if I want to use it in a design. Surprise surprise an lcr is good for characterizing an inductor

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2014, 02:49:50 pm
content: Got my DE-5000 from Japan

author: Co6aka
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2014, 10:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: ManateeMafia on July 26, 2014, 02:39:42 pmIt fits, and more importantly it works.

author: radhaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2014, 02:41:34 am
content: Plastic Toy? I just ordered this plastic toy, hope I am amused, lol.Quote from: omgfire on August 17, 2014, 02:49:50 pm

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2014, 03:57:30 am
content: Quote from: Co6aka on August 17, 2014, 10:23:52 pmThat's good to know. It looks like I will have to add this to my wish list. I just have to find a project to justify buying it.

author: mstck
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 02:55:20 am
content: HiThis is my first post in this forum. I really enjoy the topics and have learned a great deal by just reading the posts so far. Thanks.I purchased one of these meters after reading your comments and I am pleased with it so far. I have a question about the AC power supply. I am considering purchasing one and I wanted to know if there are any issues with the stock units available on eBay. The socket does not take the standard plug I have on a wall wart I currently own. Is there a suitable unit available from suppliers in the US?I find the crock clips provided a bit short and inconvenient. Can they be replaced with Slightly longer leads plugged into the banana sockets? I appreciate that I won't have the Kelvin connection at the crock tip, and I wonder if this would make a material difference in regular hobby use. Do you have any recommendations for replacement kelvin leads. Thanks.

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 05:59:11 am
content: Quote from: mstck on September 01, 2014, 02:55:20 amhttp://www.ietlabs.com/de-5000-ac.htmlQuote from: mstck on September 01, 2014, 02:55:20 amI don't see a reason to not have Kelvin clip, since they costs less than $5http://www.ebay.com/itm//281348821931Quote from CyrustekES51919/ES51920datasheet:Quotehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/shielded-cable-for-diy-kelvin-clips-for-de-5000-lcr-meter/

author: mstck
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 02:42:44 am
content: omgfire, Thanks for the information. one further question, Which cable did you decide to use to make your test lead?

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 08:14:04 am
content: Quote from: mstck on September 02, 2014, 02:42:44 amI am lazy, so I used cable which I already had. Obviously, I can replace it with different cable if I need to.If I was in US, I would go for shielded silicone wire. But at $30 overseas shipping, I pass.I compared alligator vs kelvin clip a bit. In milliOhm scale alligators give unstable measurement on heavily oxidized contacts. Kelvin clip performs better.I was surprised, that similar looking cheap DMM leads can have order of magnitude difference in resistance.

author: caall99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 05:53:04 pm
content: Just received my DER EE DE-5000 in the mail, needless to say I am impressed and happy! Very accurate and consistent readings relative to my cal'ed 3458A. It has successfully determined several capacitors to be faulty while taking readings in circuit. I used ESR primarily to determine wether or not a cap needs to be replaced.Only small complaints i have are as follows:1. The unit is pretty chunky and unattractive. Not that aesthetics matter that much... and honestly the DE-5000 is overbuilt if anything, which should lend to its long-term durability.2. The LCD contrast is not that great. When looking at the screen top down the activated segments appear "dim". Best contrast is achieved when unit is sitting on its stand and you are looking at it from a 45 deg angle. The unit's backlight in conjunction with a dimly lit room further helps contrast.3. The Kelvin alligator clip test leads could have used some nicer clips. The alligator clips are the same cheapies you can buy for pennies on the dollar from China. I would recommend DIY leads that interface to the adapter box. See robrenz's youtube channel for an AMAZING example! I will be making my own shortly.BTW, my units PCB revision is version 8.Overall 9.5/10! Buy this

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 06:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: caall99 on September 02, 2014, 05:53:04 pmSupplied alligators aren't Kelvin.Quote from: caall99 on September 02, 2014, 05:53:04 pmHave you looked at Mastech MS5308?

author: caall99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 06:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: omgfire on September 02, 2014, 06:10:41 pmThey sure do look quite "kelvin" to me from the tear downs i have seen. The "sense" and "force" leads go all the way to the alligators clips for each clip. I will open it up and confirm that information tonight. I might also just be confusing the tear down of the tweezers with the alligator adapter.EDIT: Watched Dave's teardown again. The the kelvin connection stops at the alligator clip. Force and Sense are not split into the respective "halves" of the alligator clips. Not a real kelvin connection after all, but easy enough to DIY some really nice leads for it.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 06:41:43 pm
content: It is not a true Kelvin connection unless the source and sense only connect on the DUT lead. The DE-5000 alligators connect source and sense at the alligator hinge joint therefore not a true kelvin connection but better than no 4 wire at all.

author: crystal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 09:05:18 pm
content: I have this meter, what setting are best to apply when measuring capacitors in circuit?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 07:28:13 am
content: I use auto mode, except for big capacitors you get a "----" resultthen you may lower the frequency of measurment to 1KHzif you want to measure esr only, then you can choose "Rs" mode it works also with quite big cpacitors.

author: crystal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 02:14:16 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on January 17, 2015, 07:28:13 amBig ones are not that problem to remove from the board and test them properly. But the small ones are problem you can't remove them all from the board, I need to test them on board. I don't care, D or ESR measurement anything that will show me is it good or bad.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 04:45:54 pm
content: if there are many small capacitors in parallel, in a power supply for example, then you won't be able to detect if one has a bad esryou will need to desoldier them all (except one)but generally these capacitors aren't bad, if one fails with bad esr, the other have a low ohm esr, and so the global esr of the group ofcapacitors is ok. the problem is elsewhere but on capacitor array.if you want to be sure, then you have anyway to change them all. (bad brand capacitor for example)

author: crystal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 08:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on January 17, 2015, 04:45:54 pmYes I am aware when they are in parallel in that situation cap must be removed from the board and that is no problem also.Standalone ESR meters test on 100Khz, when I use 100Khz on de5000 and switch to Cs (where it is only possible to read ESR) it shows some way off values when in circuit testing. I wonder why doesn't it read like the normal ESR meter?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 08:19:00 pm
content: switch ro Rs instead of Cs and you will get the esr at the choosen frequencyif there are too many capacity the meter cannot measure themor also you can switch to 120hz or 1khz eventually it will measure the capacity

author: crystal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 08:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on January 17, 2015, 08:19:00 pmHm....I didn't know that. So basically RS = CS (ESR measurement). Been testing right now, readings seam the same except for the one extra digit.

author: ted572
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:24:04 pm
content: The DE-5000 has been replaced by the DE-6000. Much improved over the DE-5000, although I prefer the Agilent/Keysight U1733C over the DE-6000. Ted

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 11:12:58 pm
content: Quote from: ted572 on June 03, 2015, 10:24:04 pmNo, the DE-5000 is not discontinued except by IET, and the DE-6000 is not (necessarily) better. You may want to look athttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/de-5000-vs-de-6000-lcr-showdown/The DE-6000 is IET's attempt to justify charging 3x the price for the same instrument, by increasing the model number and very slightly tightening the specs.

author: rosbuitre
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 11:49:14 pm
content: HiSomeone has a new version of software for DE-5000 (I use the Ver:1.0.0.23) ?, it is interesting but does not record ESR/RP, and error on export to excel, send an email to deree.com asking for a firmware / software newest and no answerRegardsOsvaldo

author: ironcurtain
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 06:06:11 pm
content: Anyone knows what diode/zener type is used for D5? I toasted mine with reversed polarity for the battery

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 04:41:22 pm
content: It's just a protection diode. Hopefully it did its job, and the meter isn't damaged.Replace it with any normal silicon rectifier diode (NOT Schottky), installed reverse biased (cathode band at +/red).

author: ironcurtain
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 05:28:36 am
content: Quote from: macboy on November 22, 2017, 04:41:22 pmFixed with 4148 and applied conformal coating around since I had to use a PTH part... I noticed when I insert the alligator clip module the capacitance is nonzero. How can this be fixed? Is it a bad idea to directly insert components into the slots?

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2017, 08:55:10 am
content: Quote from: ironcurtain on November 23, 2017, 05:28:36 amQuoteJust insert the alligator clip module and calibrate it open/short. If it refuses to calibrate correctly here (I would think anything like > 2 pF would be wrong), then probably the cables are not connected. There are four wires, and they are (on my unit) both soldered directly to the alligator clips. However (on my unit) this quickly failed presumably due to mechanical stress at the location where the wire meets the alligator clip (the alligator clip crimps were not done properly, evidently).QuoteNo problem. And if you need to calibrate here, feel free to do so. The open is trivial, the short could just be a short through hole lead.Enjoy!

author: ironcurtain
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 06:51:53 pm
content: Quote from: technogeeky on November 23, 2017, 08:55:10 amThat did it! Thank you! Self-calibration was painless.

author: JDW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2018, 01:33:12 pm
content: What is thepurposeof the TL-23 guard lead?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2018, 11:26:40 pm
content: Does anyone know whether the DE-5000 talks SCPI or something else?

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2018, 08:52:09 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 07, 2018, 11:26:40 pmDefinitely not SCPI. In fact, it is not capable of accepting any command over serial link. The serial link is output only, so it just sends all readings as they happen, nothing else.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/decoding-der-ee-lcr-meter-de-5000-serial-bitstream/

author: mwb928
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 15, 2018, 10:20:56 am
content: For those who would like to perform unit calibration, here is the information and it is also works on Mastech MS5308, UNI-UT612 or whatever using Cyrustek ES51919 and ES51920 chip set.For DE-5000, adjust DC 500mV between TP1 and TP2.For others, adjust DC 500mV between pin 26 and pin 28 on ES52920.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2018, 10:26:22 am
content: Quote from: mwb928 on May 15, 2018, 10:20:56 amThanks , and I assume you have access to that chip documentation ?

author: mwb928
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 15, 2018, 11:04:36 am
content: The test points are for the ES52920 reference voltage adjustment. It needs special software and different standard values for LCR calibration which will involve thousands dollars. If the chip set burn out due to over voltage or whatever, get a new one.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 05:25:10 am
content: Quote from: mwb928 on May 15, 2018, 11:04:36 amOk, but whats that 500mV for ?I mean how it affect the measurement if this reference say drifted out ?Edit : I also updated the giant Mastech MS5308 thread, with close-up photo with the location ->Post $250.At MS5308, wonder whats the TP_VRH test point for, any idea what voltage ?

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2018, 08:03:56 pm
content: Looked into my DE-5000 after I got interested due to another thread mentioning (lack of) measurement input protections, but while at it, noticed other interesting points, especially in the power input reverse polarity protection (or lack of it) already seen in this thread.My recently acquired DER DE-5000 has no battery/DC-input reverse polarity "protection" diodes at all (D3 and D5 are not populated). So no worries of replacing them if I accidentally put the battery wrong way around - I probably would have to replace the whole device instead. (Or figure out what components are broken, and what the components are/were, "Q1" etc. wouldn't tell much).Though, it seems that the DC-input side's bulk capacitor has been replaced with a slightly bigger diode (though could not find info by the markings on it, measured it to behave like diode), thus doing the same work as the original "not really protecting"-diode was supposed to do, which means it will burn a few short moments longer before either it or the power supply breaks. Hopefully with the diode into a short and a power supply with short-circuit protection.Sigh. I think, just in case, I'll look for two cheap FETs to tweak in there for proper reverse polarity protection. Otherwise mr. Murphy will pay a visit sooner or later.Also, compared to other RLC-meter variants with these chipsets, DER DE-5000 seems to be the only one that has decided to leave many of the bulk capacitors away (on supplies and the two legs of the trim resistor), and also the small capacitors parallel with the positive side drive-path's 3 highest resistors. These might affect accuracy at some ranges? The bulks would probably be easy to fill in (probably anything that fits the spot would improve something), but the caps in the measurement path might need to be of specific values, and/or would possibly affect some possible internal calibration.

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2018, 08:53:57 pm
content: A little bit of further checks into the meter... In case someone finds these bits of information useful/interesting...The chip gets multiple supply "rails", of which most are simply branched from the same 3.52V supply (probably "3.5V"), and one "5V" (4.96V). The 5V has a bigger bypass cap on it, and seems to be stable with no rippling at all times. All the 3.5V supplies have basically same behavior, due to missing the larger local bypass caps and not having much bulk caps anywhere else, either. The 3.5V supply/supplies has/have from "zero" ripple to about 80mVpp ripple (at measurement frequency or multiple of it) depending on the ongoing measurement (what part and at which frequency). Whether that affects accuracy and/or operation would depend on chip's internal PSRR and measurement method/timings. (Considering that other meter variants with the same chip keep those caps, I think it might be better to have them than not.)I added a 100µF electrolytic at somewhat bad location (where I was able to keep it in contact with one hand while probing with the other), and that reduced the worst case 80mVpp ripples to about 10mVpp. I assume putting multiple 3216 tantalum polymers where they should be, in the unpopulated spots, would drop it even more.All supplies, and also the adjustable (reference?) voltages have quite a bit of noise on them. However, the measurement setup wasn't optimal, so the noise could be also pickup from the room or the nearby oscilloscope. Anyway, in open case surgery, the noise level was also about 80mVpp (and didn't vary much, although was a bit less at one particular case... could have been also a measurement error, or effect of having hand in different place, or whatnot). Since the case and electronics aren't shielded (other than the ground plane being on the top side of the PCB), I'd assume the noise levels would be similar even with closed case. I was thinking of trying an ad-hoc shielding, but couldn't figure out how to have both easy shielding and easy probing under that shield, so I skipped that.The measurement voltage seems to be a sinewave biased by +1.80V, amplitude of the sinewave depending on the component and meter's state. The largest waveform I could probe was 1.92Vpp (with a 4.7k resistor, didn't bother to try bigger ones), i.e. from 0.84V to 2.76V. Semiconductors would definitely trip. I have also seen much lower measurement voltage, but that typically happened during "OL" states. (EDIT: I did not test all possible combinations/cases, but the ones I did, both sides of the component are at 1.80V bias, i.e. there is no (significant) DC current through the component.)On the note of meter "state", I noticed that in the auto-LCR mode the shown result may depend on the way the measurement was started. For example, when checking a capacitor, if scope probes were connected at the time of switching measurement frequency, the meter could end up showing R(s or p) with OL or low value (can't remember which). But if the probes were first detached, then switching frequency, then letting results stabilize, and then finally connect probes back, the meter would happily show and keep showing the correct capacitance value. Not a big thing, IMHO, just to be aware that depending on which order one connects the component and changes options may give unexpected results.

author: WayneD
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 11:49:16 am
content: Anyone know what size the dc coaxial plug is?

author: shuichik
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 07:55:59 am
content: Outer dia = 3.5mmInner dia = 1.3mmlength = 12mm

author: adriten
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2021, 11:59:09 pm
content: hello, anyone knows where the "split banana plugs" can be found ? I've never met any butthey are supposed to exist since DER EE 5000 input is designed to accept them for the 4 wire measurement

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 12:05:38 am
content: Hi,What split Banana Plugs ?I´ve bought the "full package" a few months ago....

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 07:01:44 am
content: this one ?https://www.amazon.com/TL-21-Alligator-5000-Handheld-Meter/dp/B00R1RFKIW

author: adriten
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 05:01:03 pm
content: if you look closely into the + or - banana connectors, on the instrument front panel, you will notice the contacts are split in two ,see the pics, at the start of this thread, (post from PedroDaGr8)To realize a 4 wire measurement you need a banana plug split in twoadri

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 09:16:30 pm
content: Tek does (or did) some 4-wire probes, withwhat I assume aresplit-banana plugs. Search for TL705 and TL725.Edit: confirmed split, apparently for the DMM4040/4050, no idea which orientation the split is in (would need to match the DE-5000).

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 10:05:09 pm
content: You can replace the "Alligator test lead case" with a real 4 wire leads.

author: adriten
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 09:02:59 am
content: thanks Hydrons, yes, they seem to be split banana jack (very expensive, though)https://www.tek.com/accessory/tl725-manual/tl725-test-leads

author: adriten
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 09:08:16 am
content: yes but you either buy a second TL-21 (expensive) or you have to hack the one that comes with the instrument (a bit crappy but I'd prefer to leave it untouched)

author: JDW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 09:48:03 am
content: You can buy gold-plated Kelvin clips on Amazon (USA) for a very reasonable price right now:https://amzn.to/2Xf1lXC(Amazon Affiliate paid link)It really won't hurt removing the stock alligator clips because if for some reason you ever wanted them back, you simply need to solder. Desoldering a later desoldering (at up to 350°C with 3s or less on each wire) won't harm the original leads.With that said, I've yet to do that mod on my kit yet because I'm not sure if the relatively large size of those handles would be too big in some applications where the smaller and lighter weight stock alligator clips might be better suited.I have watched many YouTube videos on the subject though. It seems that the biggest reason for doing the Kelvin Clip mod is to get longer leads and a different shaped clip end. According tothis video, there isn't much of an accuracy difference between calibrated Kelvin Clips and the stock alligator clips for resistance measurements above 10mΩ.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 08:49:52 pm
content: I bought this one, works very well (check the picture I posted):https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A226qr

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 04:32:30 am
content: Above Kelvin clips, the weak spot is the plastic, I had 2 pairs where the grayish plastic gets brittle over time and cracked at normal used. Also their jaw biting power is not strong when measuring big DUT with big terminals like power resistor, big inductor and etc.Better one is the one made by GWInstek, as its has better precision mechanic and built.We have member reviewed it while ago ->GWInstek Kelvin clips reviewAlso another model, below photo, is my fav and mostly grabbed clips as it has powerful jaw that made measurement process not fiddly at big DUTs or big leaded components, especially when we moved alot and sometimes bumped on the clips or even the wires can fluctuate the reading as the teeth moved abit. The metal and the clips teeth are quite strong and wont chipped easily when clipped on hard metal terminals. Also it has very simple mechanism is almost fail and fool proof, and the jaw biting power can be enhanced too if needed.Both models are available at AliExpress.

author: thaistatos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:54:31 am
content: Is there a way to add reverse polarity protection by using some of the unpopulated spaces? D3, D5?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 12:41:25 pm
content: there is no needed polarity on the DE5000's probes

author: thaistatos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 03:44:46 pm
content: Soryy, I was talking about the reverse polarity of the inserted battery.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 04:27:29 pm
content: Hi,Interesting, it got no reverse polarity protection - Didn´t noticed it so far...On some board revisions it seems, D5 was placed:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/der-ee-de-5000-unboxing-and-teardown/msg482389/#msg482389So it would be no problem if you solder a diode on the place.Me, I´m thinking about to solder a diode in series to the + rail:Reverse polarity, D5 protect the meter but current will flow, could damage the battery.

author: Hexley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2021, 07:41:59 pm
content: Quote from: JDW on January 05, 2021, 09:48:03 amI used those "Atoplee" probes from Amazon on a recent rework of my DE-5000's TL-21 leads. Worked well. One note, though, is that one of the BNC connectors was a dead short from signal to shield. If you were planning to use these leads for a BNC-connected LCR meter, that could pose a problem.It did not affect my DE-5000 mod, since the BNCs were removed when the Kelvin leads were soldered into the TL21 housing. But when I used those removed BNCs for other purposes, I discovered the issue. Probably not a common fault, but maybe worth checking if you buy a set.

author: Yuriy V.
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2021, 08:07:14 pm
content: Has anyone done replacing the blue LED backlight with orange or yellow? What size LEDs is needed for this?

author: ranchero
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 09:52:13 pm
content: I'm using DE-5000 for measuring relatively small smd inductors (~40nH - 200 nH), always used 100kHz for that. Using TL-21 clip and soldering component to the small test board (getting old so hard for me to measure 0402 smd without soldering it first). Had mixed feelings as measured inductance was quite off (higher) comparing to nominal value of known inductors. Yesterday I've noticed that if I change frequency to 10kHz, reading is by far more accurate even though less stable. For example, 0402 smd inductor with 150 nH nominal value measured as ~220...225nH at 100kHz, but at 10kHz it's measured as 0.14...0.17uH (not stable). Same result with MANY other inductors tested.Can anyone explain? My DE-5000 is faulty? Or there's other reason for that?What are other inexpensive options (if any) accurate measuring of small inductors?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 10:37:48 pm
content: Hi,QuoteThe testfrequencies are ways off from that what the inductance are used for.Check the datasheet, on which frequency the value refers.

author: ranchero
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 11:25:18 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 11, 2021, 10:37:48 pmHmmm...Maybe I'm getting too old and started to lose what I've learned in university decades ago. But I found this and it's kind of correlates with what I was thinking. I need to measure inductance, not inductive reactance.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 12:08:29 am
content: Yes, but see this here...A randomly taken datasheet...

author: enisal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 11:20:02 pm
content: I don t have so much luck as you all i guess.My Der EE DE-5000 is completely out of spec. I only have a Brymen 869s and those cheap lcr meter from ebay.Every cap on my DE-5000 always give me value under those specified by alot.For example i test a brand new cap 22uf 16v with the Brymen it gave me a value of 22.59 uf, Der EE DE-5000 gave me a value of 17.67 uf at 100hz freq. The Cheap ebay lcr gave a value of 23.21 uf.And it is always like that.So my question is how do i even calibrate this thing?

author: masterx81
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 11:34:30 pm
content: Maybe your deere is telling the truth. Cheap lcr that i've tested were simply too inaccurate. While my fluke always measure more capacitance due to really slow frequency (it measure capacitance charging and discharging che cap between 2 voltage levels and measuring the time taken. This can go as slow as few hz).You need to measure a cap that you have the dstasheet, and check the capacitance at a given frequency. You will be surprised that the deere is spot on.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 10:20:38 pm
content: QuoteSo the DE-5000 must be wrong ?No...For example, the brymen measures with DC only, while the DE-5000 measure with AC.Plus you don´t know how the cheap LCR meter are measuring.Plus you need to know, how the specs of the cap manufacturer where measured.

author: ROMUZ
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 08, 2021, 12:51:46 pm
content: My DER 5000 seems quite accurate, at least for Rs.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2021, 01:53:33 pm
content: My DE-5000 is very accurate on non-polarized capacitors, including General Radio lab standards (air, mica, or polystyrene). Since it applies AC across the device under test, your polarized electrolytic capacitor is not under normal conditions. The non-sinusoidal meters presumably have a positive-definite waveform across the capacitor. One of my back-burner projects is an accessory box that will apply a DC bias, using an old -hp- circuit.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2021, 04:15:18 pm
content: QuoteYou can judge about it, when you got a reference meter for comparision.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2021, 05:20:00 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 08, 2021, 04:15:18 pmOr measure lab standards.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 07:23:10 pm
content: Yepp, I´ve forgot it..

author: J_in_MN
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 10, 2023, 08:16:24 pm
content: Does anyone have a DE-5000 with a board revision later than Ver 8?

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2024, 01:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: J_in_MN on December 10, 2023, 08:16:24 pmmine is Version 9