Besides Keygilent, who makes Frequency Counters with GPIB? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 12:58:36 pm
content: I have a strict "do-not-buy Agilent" policy and am in need of a high-count frequency counter for some characterization work. Oddly, I've not found many vendors who make frequency counters, let alone ones with GPIB on them.As my google-fu has been failing me, I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a brand who makes counts good to 200MHz or so, with GPIB interfaces? Standard CMOS logic levels (3.3V) are plenty fine for the input tolerance. Something which can be traceable by calibration is also a need.Thanks!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:13:39 pm
content: HP made counters with GPIB interface.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 27, 2016, 01:13:39 pmAnd HP->Agilent->Keysight.Agilent burned their bridge with me with great gusto. None of that brand's products sit on my benches, nor will they.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:19:22 pm
content: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1724108.pdf?_ga=1.113604359.1436912983.1465303675http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1906939.pdf?_ga=1.88551579.1436912983.1465303675Second one is 'optional' GPIB and may not have high enough resolution?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:21:00 pm
content: What happened with you and Agilent?To me they make some of the finest test gear.Anyhow, you could use some of the older PhilipsPM6666andPM6665I still have one of each in perfectly good working condition.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:25:54 pm
content: Ok so there is a failing I had- I'm looking for _new_.WRT Agilent, TL;DR edition:Put in time to buy a fairly big ticket item back in 2004. Their sales support decided they couldn't be fucked to take payment and instead wasted two weeks of my time figuring out what the hell they were doing.After the two weeks, I decided if this is the standard of their sales, it's probable that their other support folks are only worse. I went and got an inferior product from Tektronix, but it at least did the job and Tek was more than happy to take my money. From that point forward, Agilent and any variant there-of is on my black list.

author: flash2b
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:34:27 pm
content: Tektronix FCA3000 and 3100 series:http://www.tek.com/frequency-counter/fca3000-3100

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:46:06 pm
content: Quote from: XFDDesign on September 27, 2016, 01:25:54 pmCongratulations. Next time, you accidentally trip over in something, make sure you blacklist your feet and never walk again. That would be the same level.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 01:56:38 pm
content: Quote from: XFDDesign on September 27, 2016, 01:25:54 pmBeing located in the US you shouldn't have a problem finding another dealer. I do understand your frustration though. I'm in an country which is a small market so most brands only have one dealer. I have found some dealers are difficult to work with which puts some brands out of my reach.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: XFDDesign on September 27, 2016, 01:25:54 pm12 years later, these sales people are probably gone.But this has nothing to do with the quality of the test gear.I expected you to have a huge technical breakdown.May be time to give them another chance, times have changed.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:10:51 pm
content: Once you clear a certain pricetag point, they switch to direct field sales agents rather than relying on distributors. (It also depends on the particular product line)Quote from: HighVoltage on September 27, 2016, 02:03:54 pmJohn Berg is still at Keysight, and is still quite popular with this existing customer base. When I worked at Analog Devices' Northwest Labs, he was the go-to guy for their gear needs. Where possible, I worked to deprive him of sales. Where ever I can, I put forth my best effort to keep Keysight out of any lab I can."But this has nothing to do with the quality of the test gear."The sales team is the first contact you have with a company. If they are unbelievably incompetent, by what standard do you operate that everything else in the company is not? Suppose the product IS good (and the unit did seem superb), but you get one unit that has problems (it happens to all companies). If the sales team is that useless, how much more useless is their technical support going to be?Precisely because I did not "hope in spite of the evidence," I never reached a point of having a huge technical breakdown and finding the answer to the quality of their tech support.I don't give second chances.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:25:00 pm
content: The good news is that there is a vast number of frequency counters with GPIB to choose from. Even given that you want new and you probably don't want direct Chinese (can that crap even be calibrated?), you should still find dozens of candidates.I agree, hang tough with your policy. Truth is, the Keysight rep probably knows of you and would probably not want to hear from you anyway.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 27, 2016, 02:25:00 pmHe tried to patch things up as a kind of political effort while I was in NWLABS, but I flatly rejected him. To that end, you're correct. XDThus far, only the Tek counter mentioned above was the first I've discovered.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 02:56:39 pm
content: http://www.thinksrs.com/products/SR620.htmSR620 Frequency Counterhttp://www.thinksrs.com/downloads/PDFs/Catalog/SR620c.pdf

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:02:19 pm
content: Well, there's also the Anritsu MF2400C Series:https://www.anritsu.com/en-GB/test-measurement/products/mf2413cAlthough the frequency range (and probably the price) is a bit higher than you probably expected

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 27, 2016, 03:02:19 pmYeah, but besides that we got our Anritsu VNA showing up any day now. XD

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:35:01 pm
content: l'll be honest with you, I do not like your topic nor your way of doing things.It is clear that you have experience and you know how to look after a counter with GPIB, you don't need our help for this.This topic is not sincere.What you seek is simply to prejudice Keysight for a problem that goes back a long time.Yourself you confess it saying:QuoteSo you'd better refrain this rancor that does not honor you.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:51:14 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on September 27, 2016, 03:35:01 pmIt has been. The tek counter did not show up when I did my searches. What I was able to find were hobby counters, kits, and BK Precision sorts of equipment. Not pro counters with GPIB and tracability. That was my criteria.QuoteI posted my problem, and end goal in my OP. I said nothing of my story, ratherHigh Voltage asked specifically.If your complaint here were valid, I would have started with this. Someone asked, I answered.QuoteI explain why I refuse to associate with Keysight products. I explain why I won't give them a second chance.Let's be honest with your post here: "I'm offended at your dislike of this beloved brand. I'm going to come into your thread, not contribute, and try to white-knight a brand I probably like. I'm not going to make any argument. I'm not going to make a case against your reasoning for excluding the brand I probably like. I'm just going to take a dump here and whine about how mean you are."QuoteOr what? If you don't like what has been written, suggest that others stick to the root question and not ask my reasons.Wuerstchenhund proposed an option that is far in excess of the needs I listed in my OP.Hydrawerk's SRS counter isn't an item that is stocked at Mouser, Digikey, etc.Flash2B (and CJays) mentioned the Tek FCA3000, which is what looks to be the best candidate. Digikey doesn't list it. Mouser doesn't list it when you search for "in stock". Newark does list it, and thus will likely be the disty I buy from.High Voltage suggested a part that is readily available, but not new - and that was a failure on my part for initial constraint.QuoteThis is a confession that you have nothing to add and are simply whining out of offense. Your brand affinity is meaningless to me. Five people have been helpful in contribution specifically (even if one was excessive for the constraints I was looking for), you've offered nothing.You can show yourself out now.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 03:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 27, 2016, 01:46:06 pmInsanity is repeating an action and expecting different results. I too can toss out vaguely parallel statements that are useless.Let's run with your insightful analogy:"Oh shit, I just tripped. Why did I trip?"Did my foot get caught on a cord?I better deal with the cord in an appropriate way that I don't have the same result or worse.Did I trip on my own shoe laces?I better ensure that they're tied so that the same result doesn't happen again.Did I trip and fall on the stairs?What were the circumstances which led to that event? How might I prevent that from happening again?Should I go on? Or do you see the idiocy of your argument? I made an effort to engage in business with Agilent. They, apparently, didn't want it (until they did). The service was crap. By what standard should I expect anything different from the rest of the experience?At this point, five people have been valuable enough to provide meaningful, helpful answers to the degree that I have solved my problem. I can entertain these poor arguments now, with casual indifference.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:01:33 pm
content: Actually, you started slamming Keysight in the thread title, both in the misspelling and in the wording.But, WTH, we might as well play along...

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 27, 2016, 04:01:33 pmAgisight. Keygilent. When they keep changing names, we get to have fun. If not, better inform Dave, since he does the same thing.Title of thread, "Besides Keygilent, who makes Frequency Counters with GPIB?"I.e. Of all brands who make Counters, XOR'ing them with Keysight, who is left. Should I diagram this?

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:25:13 pm
content: The title of your topic leaves clear that the real purpose you are pursuing is to tell what happened there dozen of so years and, as you admit, "Where ever I can, I put forth my best effort to keep Any Keysight out of lab I can. "

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:29:37 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on September 27, 2016, 04:25:13 pmAnd if no one asked, it'd not be brought up. Your claim doesn't follow the evidence, but your feelings follow your claims. Make a reasoned argument, or piss off.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:37:09 pm
content: You can't deny what you have publicly admitted.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:39:28 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on September 27, 2016, 04:37:09 pmI publicly stated why I don't use them. I stated it, becausesomeone asked.This is what you deny.Do you have an actual argument, or are you simply engaging in masturbatory self flagellation?If you are unable to post an argument, I'll simply dismiss your inability to present an argument as a concession that you have nothing to contribute. As such, anything else you sob onto the keyboard will be equally dismissed.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 04:47:50 pm
content: You are in bad faith.Quotedoes not explain why you don't use Keysight instruments but what you are doing "where ever you can" , including on this forum.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:29:43 pm
content: Just wait until you come across a moronic sales team which can only deal with the procedures they understand. I guess something went wrong somewhere and/or wrong impressions where given and the people from the sales team where not able to understand, think and rectify the situation. Dealing with such a sales team won't get you anywhere even though most of the customers have no problem with buying gear through that sales team.Once it happened to me that a salesguy started yelling at me -the customer- over the phone because I was angry they didn't reserve stock for me as his co-worker promised and on top of that they didn't inform me I had to pre-pay the order. I had a good laugh when I hung up the phone though because of the sheer level of customer care amateurism I was exposed to. This was a wholesale dealer for computer parts BTW and I won't be buying from them for sure. I guess XFDDesign had a similar problem with Agilent's sales department.However it may be worth to give Keysight another try through another sales channel since it seems they do care about their customers. I have had good experience with their support for equipment I bought second hand. It would be a pity to settle for a lesser piece of equipment if Keysight is the best fit.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:36:26 pm
content: Tektronix Frequency Counters have GPIB ports:http://www.tek.com/frequency-counter

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 05:42:24 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on September 27, 2016, 04:25:13 pmJust for the record, I disagree with that assessment, I can't really see anything else than someone looking for alternatives to products made by Keysight. As someone who buys lots of test gear and has had the occasional negative experiences with pretty much any big brand I would still say Keysight is amongst the best you can get. However I can at least to some extend understand the reason XFDDesign is avoiding Keysight products, although I have to agree with nctnico here that he should really give Keysight another shot as their stuff is usually very good, as is the support.Irrespective of that, the original post came across as genuine, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about. And It's not that he's avoiding them just because of some hearsay horror stories.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 06:10:37 pm
content: Quote from: w2aew on September 27, 2016, 05:36:26 pmYup. Thanks to all who pointed them out too. No bullshit, they don't come up when I googled "Frequency Counter GPIB."We just req'd two of the FCA3ks, so my problem has been solved.

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 07:52:59 pm
content: You are for Keysight what Satanism is for Christianity.Antikeysightism?I respect all beliefs and other religious tendencies, though missionaries tickles me the wrong way.Sorry for not helping with a suggestion thoughEDIT: I wrote this from my phone and did not see you've find a device. Great!

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 08:45:55 pm
content: If you have the budget the Pendulum CNT-90 or 91 are soooo coolApparently now spectracomhttp://spectracom.com/products-services/precision-timing/frequency-counters-analyzersI would have expected to say Phillps/Fluke PM6680/81/90 too, but can't find any "New" wonder if they're out of production.Ie.https://testequipment.center/Products/Fluke-PM6690Or even at Fluke.skhttp://www.fluke.sk/sk/nedodavane-ukoncena-vyroba/fluke-pm6690-662-709.htmlAfaik:The Swedish Phillips Counter division made those nice counters. And they were sold under both Phillips & Fluke brandI think Pendulum were some of the Phillips guys going solo.The pendulum has some cool logging software for the PC.The SRS620 mentioned earlier is also a candidate, but old school (although it might be the most accurate)Hard to say more ,as your requirements for timing accuracy hasn't been mentionedDo you need a standard counter w.gpib , or a precision one ??/Bingo

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 10:41:14 am
content: Your best bet may be Rhode and Schwartz.... Take a look:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/hm8123-productstartpage_63493-44102.htmlhttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/hm8021-productstartpage_63493-147343.htmlEven if the second one is a little bit ugly, I can assure you they have made a really good job in miniaturizing it. I don't know how much they are tough, but considering it's ex hameg, in first analysis they will come about $1000...Also, GPIB module is available, and they support LXI for sure!

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 01:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on September 27, 2016, 08:45:55 pmThe cnt-91 looks sweet... hmm.. it also looks 100% identical to fluke pm 6690..I looked it up, and yes, the pendlum/spectracom stuff is the same. I did not know the pendulum/spectracom counters were the old fluke/philips counters. thats interesting!

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 06:09:18 pm
content: Thanks to all who pitched in.This showed up today, and it's working quite nicely.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 06:53:36 pm
content: Congratulations.So, it has 12 1/2 digit resolution?What is the yellow "analyze" button for?

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 01:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on September 30, 2016, 06:53:36 pmIt has statistics and plotting features, so you can see what kind of variation you get in time. Not particularly useful to me in so far as the form I need it. Overall though, it works nicely.The other unit is going to be setup this week for the drift measurements we're doing.