New soldering blog suggestion: BGA Reball - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kallisti5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2012, 04:44:15 pm
content: It's been a little while since i've seen a soldering post. *lots* of these lead-free solder BGA chips (like GPU's) are starting to fail due to cracks / etc in the solder joints.A quick guide to BGA reballing would be *really* interesting. You can buy kits, templates, plus the solder balls on ebay.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2012, 06:15:39 pm
content: hmmm. good point. kinda forgot about the reballing aspect ... i'll write a chapter on that ( i'm wrapping up a book on SMT technology to be published later this year. )

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2012, 06:46:25 pm
content: Xbox and PS repair time!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2012, 07:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 31, 2012, 06:46:25 pmLAPTOP REPAIR TIME!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2012, 07:31:44 pm
content: Most laptops have dead screens and broken hinges more than bad BGA's. Power supply problems are next, either a blown brick, broken power socket or dead battery.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2012, 08:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 31, 2012, 07:31:44 pmTrue but do you know how many HP DV6's I've had to reflow the gpu?

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 06:23:12 am
content: Quote from: StubbornGreek on May 31, 2012, 08:04:25 pmAnd how many times did i repair HP tx2000's GPU ... But the temperatures the 6150 runs at cooks the CPU too inevitably

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 02:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 01, 2012, 06:23:12 amThose are fun to play with (I've had one or two in my shop) - I almost purchased one about a year or two ago.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 02:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: StubbornGreek on June 01, 2012, 02:30:25 pmI gave up once the SATA controller died but not the GPU. Odd

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 04:10:18 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 31, 2012, 06:15:39 pmThis sounds interesting, keep us informed.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 05:25:06 pm
content: Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 01, 2012, 02:59:00 pmAh, sux.

author: kallisti5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2012, 07:13:30 pm
content: Glad i'm not the only one interested in thisI've tried reflow with little luck... i normally just end up screwing up the BGA connections for good. Kind of sad so much hardware out there suffers from such a stupid (and hard to repair) problem.Dave! help us recycle old hardware and save it from the trash!I have templates and a kit coming from ebay/china to give my first reball a go. (old iMac G5 picked up for pennies on the dollar.. replaced bad caps, however I think the stress + movement of replacing the caps caused the bga connections to go south given the new vertical lines on the lcd)

author: Ryu.Hayabusa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2012, 09:55:15 am
content: I'd also be interested in learning the process since a lot of consoles/embedded devices that break are due to cracked solder joints on the BGA.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2012, 03:49:01 pm
content: Quote from: Ryu.Hayabusa on June 13, 2012, 09:55:15 amWhat happens is that more likely due to tin whiskers, hardly do i hear about cracked solder joints... HEY! You're from japan, eh? I hardly see any japanese around here

author: Ryu.Hayabusa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 04:40:14 am
content: Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 13, 2012, 03:49:01 pmI heard that is what happens on consoles anyway, supposedly due to the heat combined with the tension of the mounts for the heatsinks. Maybe it doesn't actually crack, or maybe they're using the wrong term? Not sure, I have heard of tin whiskers though.Yeah.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 05:14:43 am
content: Yeah, tension + crazy amount of heat encourages rapid growth of tin whiskers

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 05:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: DaveXRQ on June 14, 2012, 05:14:43 amThose little bastards (tin whiskers) have become a common (and very annoying) problem ever since the RoHS boom. I wonder if high-reliability dependent organization (like NASA) will eventually be 'forced' to use the no-lead solutions - bad beans...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 05:56:11 pm
content: Not likely, as they generally have to design for operating ranges below -40C, where tin does a very interesting phase change, going from a shiny ductile metal to a grey brittle powder.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2012, 07:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on June 14, 2012, 05:56:11 pmI was referring to ground control equipment but good point nonetheless.

author: Ryu.Hayabusa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 02:02:40 am
content: Interesting, I didn't know it had problems at negative temperatures as well. I wonder why there was such a huge rush to move to that lead free crap...I guess it makes sense in low power/low heat devices though.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 02:45:16 am
content: Quote from: Ryu.Hayabusa on June 15, 2012, 02:02:40 amBecause lead is bad...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 04:39:46 am
content: Built in obsolescence. Interesting is that Aviation and aerospace, as well as military and nuclear industrial controllers are exempt from the ROHS regs.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 05:09:38 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on June 15, 2012, 04:39:46 amAll for the sake of high reliability, there's a reason all parts in military and nuclear , aviation , aerospace use extreme prime-spec partsThe reliability isn't available with bloody lead free solders (At most 5 years?)

author: Ryu.Hayabusa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 10:10:44 am
content: Quote from: StubbornGreek on June 15, 2012, 02:45:16 amlol, of course, but how often do you throw out a device? I can't even remember the last time I did.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2012, 10:36:50 am
content: Quote from: Ryu.Hayabusa on June 15, 2012, 10:10:44 amI haven't thrown out any of myleadeddevices

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2012, 08:29:15 am
content: There is a lot of information on lead free soldering available at the American welding society (AWS)http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/swish.cgi?query=lead+free+solder&imageField.x=14&imageField.y=3Why there is so much concern about lead in consumer electronics is puzzling 0.3% to 0.5% of the world lead is used in electronics and 60% is used by the battery and ammunition industry. It's dangerous to have lead sealed inside electronics but fine and dandy to have large chunks whizzing around in the air.