Need help identifying a surface mount IC (Amco 9816) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 03:32:26 pm
content: Hello!I've been working on my HP 16534A oscilloscope module and decided to pull the heatsink off one of the ICs to try and find a datasheet for it. Sure enough, when I pulled it off, I found part of a metal screw under there! It looks like someone was drilling one, it snapped off, and got stuck under the heat sink. It definitely didn't belong there and is more than likely what broke this unit I think.Anyway, I'd like to try and find a replacement chip and also a datasheet for this chip. I can send pictures if you guys want, but I don't know how much good it'd do. The sticky thermal paste stuff seemed to eat away the text in the middle of the chip, if there was any to begin with. However, I can see very clearly, at the top of the chip:Amco 9816And at the bottom:Q20025-0080B (that might be Q20025-00808, it's hard to tell)309245ZI had a little bit of trouble counting the pins, but I believe there's 20 pins on two sides and then 30 pins on two sides. It's more rectangular than square. Giving it a total of 100-pins.Does any one think they can help me identify this part and help me find a datasheet for it? On the PCB, it's listed as U509.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 05:33:22 pm
content: Doh! Stupid bad eye sight! With a magnifying glass, I see it's AMCC 9816! Perhaps this will make tracking down a datasheet a bit easier!!! I believe the company might be called AppliedMicro Circuits Corporation. I'll keep you all posted on how I make out!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 09:26:12 pm
content: I couldn't find a datasheet or a replacement AMCC 9816. I believe the actual number of the chip is Q20025-0080B. I've tried contacting AMCC. I signed up for an account but haven't been approved yet. From what I've read on their site, to access datasheets, I need an account. When I went to sign up though, I needed to enter a corporate e-mail address and put down what corporation I worked for. I don't work for a corporation nor do I have a corporate e-mail address. I ended up using the e-mail address for my domain. I got an e-mail saying they'll contact me again if my account is approved. I haven't gotten the e-mail yet and I fear they will not approve my account. I've also sent one of their departments an e-mail asking for the datasheet and seeing if they had a couple of these chips that I could buy.I can't even find out what the chip is for. I did find this:http://datasheet.seekic.com/PdfFile/Q20/Q20004_.pdfIt's a datasheet for something called a logic array and it does list Q20025, without the 0080B. Maybe the 0080B is some sort of code, saying what batch it was from or something? I might just be SOL with this. Hopefully one of the companies get back to me.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 11:43:15 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 16, 2016, 11:41:06 pmThanks blueskull. I've tried that site before, Alibaba.com, and I've never had a company respond to my requests for some reason. I've also seen a similar site but the name is a little different. I just pick what I want and place the order. I don't actually have to create a "request" or whatever it's called and let the companies get back to me saying they'll accept my request to buy from them. But I'll give this a shot again and see if it actually works out this time. Thanks!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 11:51:12 pm
content: Also, are you sure these are the exact same ones? I click to try and start an order for one and I see this:Quick DetailsD/C: Newest Package: ALL packagesModel Number: Q20025-0080B Type: ICBrand Name: Original Place of Origin: Jiangsu, China (Mainland)Date Code: 2015+ TYPE: ICElectronic Components: Original from Winsome IC: Brand NewSkype: hkwinsome3 Winsome: Integrated CircuitsThe data code of 2015+ kind of makes me question it a little bit. Just want to make sure I got the right 100-pin package before I continue with the order.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 11:59:53 pm
content: It's a logic array ASIC. Q20025 is just the series, you'll need the specific part number -- 0080B could be it.The unusually new datecode is a bit suspicious, but then I found this:https://www.rocelec.com/media/uploads/documents/RE_PR_AMCC%20Gate%20Array_v1_31mar11.pdf

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:04:28 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 16, 2016, 11:58:51 pmThat's the one I remembered! I couldn't remember the name until I just saw your post, but AliExpress! So this is a programmed PLD? Not really sure what that means. Can I just unsolder the old and put the new one in you think or is there software on there that I'd need to somehow transfer (which I more than likely will not be able to do, I fear the old chip is probably dead). Do you have a datasheet or something? Thanks for all the help!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:12:18 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 16, 2016, 11:59:53 pmSo it's definitely an ASIC? When I was doing my research, I kept on coming across ASICs that had similar numbers but I came to the conclusion somehow that what I was looking for was a different part. The last place that I could find that had the part I needed was actually that Rochester Electronics. However, when I went to their site, they had 0 on hand. I did contact them via e-mail though, I just haven't heard back from them yet. I was thinking it was that Gate Array or Logic Array. I was under the impression it wasn't being made anymore though. Are the products in that link you sent me ASICs or are they something different? I've glanced over what an ASIC was but didn't read too much into it. Thanks for the link!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:15:15 am
content: Aliexpress didn't have it.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:29:34 am
content: Going back to Alibaba, I started an order. I picked two units and it shows the price as being 2.92$. They're 1.458$ each. So far, so good. I put in my message to the seller but then I go to the shipping options. I don't see where it tells me how much shipping is and there's weird options.I get these options...Shipping Method: Sea Freight, Air Cargo, Express, Land TransportationTrade Terms: FOB, CNF/CFR, CIF, CPT, EXW, DDP, DDUand then there's Expected Shipping Date...I'd like to get the product soon, but I don't want to pay something like 80$ for shipping! I mean, I want to go with Air Cargo I think, but if it's really expensive, I don't want to go for it. I have no idea what Trade Terms is. I can't seem to see where they list any definitions. And for Expected Shipping Date...I'm the buyer, I don't really know when the seller's going to ship. Does anyone have any ideas to the questions I have? Thanks and I really appreciate all the help!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:35:36 am
content: It already messed up! This is what I wrote:I would like to know the price for two Q20025-0080B made by AMCC.Could you please let me know how much they'd cost?Thank you.This is what it changed my post to:Hi,I would like to know the price for ALE2D-2M4-10-Z Copal.I am interested in buying 2 Piece/Pieces.Please provide us with a quotation.Thank you.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:38:13 am
content: Quote from: Spork Schivago on January 17, 2016, 12:15:15 amThere is one listing which says to contact the seller first. But there is always taobao too. Or places like seekic where you can get quotes from multiple sellers, though don't enter your usual email as will receive tons of never ending spam with offers for different parts (stupid me 7-8 years ago). Email just gets Chinese curse.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:43:44 am
content: Thanks for the response. When I went to Aliexpress.com, I entered Q20025-0080B but it came back with 0 results. Could you share a link please? Thank you.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 12:45:58 am
content: Quote from: Spork Schivago on January 17, 2016, 12:43:44 amhttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/Q20025-0080B-QFP-before-buy-need-to-contact-the-seller-quote/32415289690.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.l3THVS&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_5_10001_10002_10005_301_10006_10003_10004_62,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_6150

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 01:02:01 am
content: No matter who I ask on Alibaba for the Q20025-0080B, it always changes the product!!! The last one I tried ordering, 10$ a pop, it changed my post to this:This is Kenneth from United States and I would like to purchase two "ALE2D-2M4-10-Z" switches made by Copal Electronics. The following is the part number:ALE2D-2M4-10-Z: Copal Electronics Inc

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2016, 01:22:54 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 17, 2016, 12:45:58 amThanks! I've contacted the seller! For some reason, when I go to Aliexpress.com and type in Q20025-0080B, I get 0 results. I even tried copying and pasting the Q20025-0080B from that page you linked me to. Hopefully these guys will have it! Kinda sucks that I have to purchase 10, but it's better than having none. I could always trying selling them off on E-Bay or something. I'll keep you posted and let you know what they say if / when they get back to me.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2016, 02:20:16 pm
content: According to the datasheet linked on the 3rd post, the Q20025 was available in 80, 100 or 120 pin packages. Could the 0080B simply refer to the pin count? (Although I saw you mentioning that you estimated 100 pins.) I would be concerned that the ASICs available from China today are unprogrammed, and I understand that these could not be field programmed.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2016, 08:52:04 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 19, 2016, 02:20:16 pmThanks for the reply. No, I don't think the 80 refers to the pin count. That's a good thought though. I've just recounted and it's 100-pin. Two sides have 20 pins, two sides have 30 pins.I too worry about ordering from China for one reason or another. A LOT!!! of people have replied to my request from some SeekIC site. I didn't read the fine print and didn't realize they actually just send the message to a bunch of people and see if they can get it. I've gotten at least 30 e-mails from sellers over there. The cheapest was 7.60$ a pop with 33$ shipping. I've asked if they provided any slower but cheaper shipping. Other people want around 26$ - 30$ for one. The other people I've talked to said there's two shipping options. A really expensive one, around 30$ - 35$ that means I get it in 3 - 7 days. Then a slower, but much cheaper, around 10$ shipping, where it can take 2 months for me to get. I think I'll go for the slow shipping. I've also decided that I'll buy two. One from the 7.60$ supplier probably and from the 26$ supplier, just to increase my chance of getting the correct part.So we're sure these are ASICs and not something else? The only datasheet I could find doesn't seem to mention ASIC but Logic Array or Gate Array...I wish there was a way to test the current one. I've just assumed because there was a metal screw grounding it out, that it was broke. It'd be nice if it was still working. Seeing how I can't even find a pinout for this component though, I think it just might be best to replace it. I still need to figure out what voltage I should use for those two missing caps. I'm pretty sure they're MLCC caps.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2016, 09:49:05 pm
content: Quote from: Spork Schivago on January 19, 2016, 08:52:04 pmI think that most likely they are ASICs, to be configured/programmed by the factory. The datasheet does talk about verification of the customer's design upon its submission to AMCC at one point, so I assume that was the review step before a design could go into production.That notwithstanding, maybe AMCC had some types of off-the-shelf, pre-configured arrays for sale for certain generic uses? And maybe the 0080B suffix does designate one of them? It would not make sense to have these -0080B chips floating around in the (grey?) market if they don't serve a function...

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 02:13:47 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 19, 2016, 09:49:05 pmYou do have a good point about them floating around in the grey market. And I like how you say grey market. I can only find them through those IC sellers that find them on the market over in China and send you an e-mail with a quote. I can't find them on any site for sale though. For the datasheet, are you talking about the one I linked? Or do you have a datasheet that's different? The one I linked too isn't much of a datasheet. It doesn't give you pinouts or anything. I need to still try and figure out what voltage caps I need to use for the missing ones. If you got a different datasheet, I'd love to have a look at it. Thanks!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 02:20:26 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 19, 2016, 10:39:00 pmI didn't know what PLD was, so I googled it and found this:Code:A programmable logic device (PLD) is an electronic component used to build reconfigurable digital circuits. Unlike a logic gate, which has a fixed function, a PLD has an undefined function at the time of manufacture. Before the PLD can be used in a circuit it must be programmed, that is, reconfigured.The datasheet I linked to earlier on calls this a logic array. I'm thinking maybe logic array and logic gate are similar? Maybe a logic array just has a bunch of logic gates? Could this mean that I don't have to worry about my Q20025-0080B coming not programmed you think? No matter how much I read, I still can't really tell what an ASIC is. I think your statement is the only clear thing I understand! So EEPROMs and ROMs would be an ASIC? But only once they're programmed? Thanks!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 05:30:59 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 20, 2016, 03:47:53 amOkay, thank for the explanation. This stuff is all new to me and I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Hopefully this Q20025-0080B comes with the correct configuration / pre-programmed. So, does that mean that this logic gate array could be programmed just differently than the one used in the 16534A oscilloscope module? I mean, from what you're saying, to me, I'm thinking something kind of like a pic, where you can change what pins are inputs, what pins are output, for example. I'm sure they're not really anything like a pic, just maybe in that sense. So, is there a chance it could be programmed, just not have the same program on it that is on the current more-than-likely-broken one?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 11:33:25 am
content: Quote from: Spork Schivago on January 20, 2016, 02:13:47 amNo, the datasheet you linked to is the only one I could find as well. The lack of pinouts and other details probably just confirms that this is a factory-configured (mask programmed) ASIC: The actual functions of the pins will only be determined once a specific mask-programmed version is made, based on a customer design. Hence the "datasheet" only talks about the basic capabilities of the architecture, I/O cells, interconnects etc.If the assumption were correct that the -0080B version is a ready-to-use, standardized configuration of the ASIC, then thereshouldbe a more detailed datasheet for that one. But it seems that none of us has been able to locate it on the internet yet; so either the assumption is wrong, or that datasheet just has never been uploaded.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 07:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 20, 2016, 05:35:38 amThank you. AMCC have never gotten back to me about my email. I only need one or two so I highly doubt they'll start rolling some out for that. I agree, if I had an order of 100k +, they'd probably be more than happy! It seems Rochester Electronics bought some of the plans to start making these and made the hardest out of every one of the series. From the PDF someone posted here, this was back in 2011, and they said after making the hardest, the other ones should be no problems. But they haven't replied to my e-mail either, probably because of how little I need, and according to the net, they have 0 in stock. I got two ordered though, from China. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 07:55:17 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 20, 2016, 11:33:25 amHopefully it's just the datasheet has never been uploaded. I got two coming from China. Hopefully, when I solder them in, it'll work. I still need two caps though, 10nF. Just gotta figure out what voltage I need. From the datasheet though, if I was reading it correctly, the maximum output of any pin would be around 5V or so. Would it be wise to assume that a 16V SMD cap would be sufficient do you think? Thanks!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2016, 07:59:35 pm
content: MASK based sea-of-gates logic device.no chance of getting this. was custom made for its purpose and buyer. your only chance is to salvage one from another unit.

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 07:20:17 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 20, 2016, 07:59:35 pmSo if it was custom made for its purpose and buyer, that means if I found some for sale and got them in the mail, they'd definitely be programed? I got two ordered. One came in the mail. Same physical part and everything. It came from Hong Kong. Hopefully it's programmed.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:58:39 pm
content: Get it soldered in and let us know how it goes!

author: Spork Schivago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 05:43:31 pm
content: Will do! I still gotta find the voltage for the two missing 10nF SMD caps on the other side. I'm thinking because they're connected to this IC, 16V should be more than enough. I was thinking they're probably those MLCC SMD caps. Just gotta find some replacements now. Now sure what package size I should go for either.