NEW - Siglent X-Series Oscilloscopes and Arb Waveform Generators - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: TrioTest
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2015, 03:02:26 am
content: You all probably have heard that Siglent has released a new series of oscilloscopes, waveform generators and a couple of LAN enabled versions of their SPD3303 series power supplies. If not have a look here.100 MHz Oscilloscopeshttp://www.triotest.com.au/shop/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=SDS1102x&submit_search=Search200 MHz Oscilloscopeshttp://www.triotest.com.au/shop/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=SDS1202x&submit_search=SearchWaveform Generatorshttp://www.triotest.com.au/shop/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=sdg2&submit_search=SearchOur web guy has yet to load the power supply info.Prices are on the website with each product. There's a video presentation on each there too.We hope to have demo units next week for Aussie customers.TRIO Test & Measurementhttp://www.triotest.com.au

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 02, 2015, 10:25:35 am
content: I wonder if that company is going to name change into Sigsight.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2015, 10:31:48 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on September 02, 2015, 10:25:35 am

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2015, 01:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on September 02, 2015, 10:25:35 amNo. Is it going to Sigroy...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2015, 07:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on September 02, 2015, 01:46:13 pmInteresting.English GUI wasn't available in the SDS3054 I tried at the Siglent factory in China.Is it yours rf-loop?LeCroy FW?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2015, 09:13:31 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 02, 2015, 07:56:56 pmNo, no. Just picture from web.It was just joking with names because @Neganur start it.... "Sigsight - Keysight / Siglent - Agilent." But I di not like Keysight so I name it time ago to Keyshit. But then... Sigsight is not fun because Siglent - Keyshit go for Sigshit... and it is not fun... so I find Sigroy (Siglent - LeCroy) better.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2015, 07:36:07 am
content: KeyShite sounds better if you ask me (The British english version of shit). But Sigroy does sound better.I have to admit tho that i am getting used to the Keysight name a bit more, still does not sound as nice as Agilent or the wanky AM modulation envelope logo does not look as nice. If you want it to sound nice just google up the list of names that was proposed to rename Agilent into, you will think that Keysight is actually a pretty good name after you read how bad the others are.Okay back to the real topic.These Siglents do look like pretty nice stuff, but the new Rigol Z series is going to be tough competition to it since it looks like its the same thing except much cheaper.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2015, 07:49:05 am
content: Quote from: Berni on September 03, 2015, 07:36:07 amLike HeaP, a moniker in common currency 30 years ago. Back then it was entirely undeserved, HP having an extremely good reputation for supporting its customers above and beyond the call of duty. Now, in the post Fiorina/Hurd/Apotheker world, I'm less certain.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2015, 04:58:02 pm
content: For those of you who would like to see a demonstration of Siglent's EasyWave arbitrary waveform software you might want to check on this video:Steve

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:25:59 am
content: FYI, I will have one of the new X-Series scopes this afternoon.Will do a quick first impressions video.Compare with the Rigol 2000 series perhaps?

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:42:07 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 18, 2015, 03:25:59 amDefinitely!

author: TrioTest
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 08:12:22 am
content: Should defilitely be an interesting comparison Dave.Here's Siglent's take on it from the info they gave us. Would be great to have your view.Prices here in Australia are within 1% of the USA as well. Here they are:http://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3816-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.htmlhttp://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3817-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.htmlhttp://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3818-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.htmlhttp://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3819-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.htmlHere's Siglent's comparison table below. It's banner spec stuff. Interested in your view of the UI and digging into the guts of the features.Cheers,Charlie

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 09:58:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 18, 2015, 03:25:59 amI hope it's ready for your critical eye, my sources are unsure if they are quite ready for "primetime".AFAIK the GUI is very similar to the SDS2000 series however I'm unsure if it is the older V1 firmware or the latest V2 beta.I should have my SDS1202X by mid next week.Looking forward to your vid Dave, good, bad or otherwise.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 10:21:32 am
content: Quote from: TrioTest on September 18, 2015, 08:12:22 amI love it how they conveniently leave out the sample rate!1GS vs 2GS on the Rigol.Looking good so far though, although the claimed 60,000wfs update rate is pretty bogus. Only applies to Dot mode (not the normal vector mode), single channel, and on a single timebase setting (not uncommon).The variable intensity display is very nice, on par or even better than the Rigol.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 10:22:04 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 18, 2015, 09:58:37 amNo firmware issues yet, seems solid.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 11:04:24 am
content: I have one SDX1202X.Segmented memory speed is same as big Brother SDS2000, maximum speed 500000 segment/s.(max 1024 segment)Also same always bacround working history memory up to 80000 wfm FIFO. (exept if segmented memory acquire is in use)Also intensity grading works somehow with lower horizontal speeds.As seen here. (carrier 50kHz, modulating AM with 100Hz, (over mod 120%))(ref to previous images with SDS2k old firmwares and SDS2k Rev2.0 beta test)This is SDS1202X

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 11:14:54 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 18, 2015, 10:22:04 amWhat FW version?I have distributors demo version and there is many... things need later fix or better if fix before scopes to end users markets.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 12:10:01 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on September 18, 2015, 11:14:54 am1.1.1.39.3I found one major display bug in the serial decode listing display.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 12:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 18, 2015, 12:10:01 pmSame version. It looks like it is first version which has been approved outside the factory. (and too early - agen. But not so badly as with SDS2000 first units)Also there is perhaps problem in Average and Eres modes. (Not have enough time for look these more now, first need deeply with lab works inspect if very base things are ok... ADC sampling, Analog front, timing, basic triggers etc..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 02:23:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 18, 2015, 12:10:01 pmThe bigger question is: does it decode only what is on screen or the entire memory? Decoding only what is on screen has proven pretty useless to me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 03:06:21 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 18, 2015, 02:23:10 pmSorry, didn't test that.

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 04:04:23 pm
content: QuoteAlso with the Rigol 1000z series, since it is similar price, please

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 08:37:54 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 18, 2015, 12:10:01 pmDave, did you get the -S, inbuilt AWG model?

author: TrioTest
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2015, 11:10:13 pm
content: No we loaned Dave the standard SDS1202X. The demo we got from Siglent did not have the AWG option fitted. The Decode option on it is the 30 limited trial uses.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:50:03 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 18, 2015, 08:37:54 pmNo, just the normal one. It has the connector on the back though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:53:26 am
content: BTW, video uploading now. Almost an hour long.I found a few firmware issues with it, but the price is very compelling, and otherwise it was pretty good.I think the main drawback is the 1GS/s sample rate. Not good enough when two channels are enabled on the 200MHz model.Got to be the cheapest way to get a 500uV/div scope as well.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:04:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 12:53:26 amWhy not? 200MHz sampled at 1GS/s is still 5 points per period which is enough to reproduce the signal with light interpolation.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 02:16:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 12:53:26 amLink please Dave.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:41:08 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 19, 2015, 01:04:53 amHaving both channels enabled drops down the sample rate by half. Those 2.5 points per period is indeed not enough.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:43:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 12:53:26 am1. There is many FW issues (also I have found many) but most of these are not severe class. But of course also less severe need fix. Some more severe need repair asap. But not at all this nearly catasrof what was case when SDS2000 was first time launched and there was finaölly so much that it was more wise to not fix and fix over fix, they write new whole revision. I do not believe after looking SDS1000X that this is case. I believe this is level where normal bug fix sequence is enough.One bug is example in "SPO engine". (example: CH1 on) If set example to 50ns/div (all fast timebases) and measure wfm/s speed. It may show average (average over one TFT update cycle) 61kwfm/s and burst speed over 70kwfm/s. Now, if turn example vertical shift or adjust V/div, wfm/s drops markable. If you return vertical settings and signal etc all are agen same, it do not return to original speed at all. If V/div and vertical shift keep changed or not but cycle CH2 on and off it returns normal speed or cycle CH1 off and back on same result, until you agen touch vertical settings. (speed drop is 10-20% or something like this...depends perhaps combination of other settings)This is just one example of bug what need immediately repair because reason may be hidden in some important place in SPO engine andperhapssomehow connected to some other bug (I have least one supect)2. True. 500MSa/s Nyq. is 250MHz and 250/200 is 1.25.It is barely enough in theory IF: There is perfect true Sin(x)/x math and there is perfect "brick wall" corner at 200MHz. There is not so much problems with Nyquist Shannon rule 2 due to fact that there is just one ADC for 500MSa/s (not interleaved what may lead to more or less phase errors between true samples). But in practice it is not well enough in practice. Minimum in practicde is somewhere 1.33 - 2.5 For 200MHz sinewave BW 600MSa/s (and- "more better") and for other waveforms if analog front end before ADC BW shape is tight brick wall (what it is not in any mid or low end scopes what I know)I can tell that Siglent Sinx/x is good and it do not destroy true sampled data but not mathematically ideal perfect. But also it do not make it good for 2 channel full 200MHz.If look Rigol DS1000Z 100MHz (hacked or original) all 4 channel in use it have 250MSa/s. Nyquist 125MHz.125/100 is 1.25. Same as in Siglent with all 2 channels in use with 200MHz. But here is very poor fake Sin(x)/x.It can not say it is good 200MHz if both channels are in use simultaneusly. 1.25 is not enough. 1.35 ... 1.5 and more is of course better. But as all, it also depends many things.It need always tightly keep in mind that if talk "200 MHz or 20MHz" scope it is stated for pure sinewave.200MHz: IF take 20MHz ideal square wave (it do not exist) to scope input it have harmonics 60, 100, 140, 180, 220...etc. 9th harmonic is inside and even this is some amount attenuated and 11th go over.THis is if there is not any limitinmg factor coming from sample rates. When there still exist harmonixs what go near or over nyquist limit and ADC itself see these it start produce aliases. Corners start wobbling etc.3. It (AFAIK) is true analog side 500uV/div. Example in Rigol DS1000Z most low is 5mV/div. After then down to 1mV/div is digital side multiply... Also Rig DS2000 do not have analog side 500uV/div.(I have not measured yet Siglent true BW using 500uV/div. If it have true analog 200MHz BW then I can accept its natural noise in this scope class. Also there is amount of "1/f" like noise. If it is BW rejected, then it is bit noisy. But still not true bad, as we understand all realities about noise when analog front end is still quite cheap circuit solution. (good state of art or even high-end analog input stage easy cost over this whole scope price)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:15:01 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 19, 2015, 01:04:53 amThe 1GS/s halves to 500MS/s when both channels are on.In the video I show why you need 4 times the bandwidth.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:19:27 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on September 19, 2015, 07:43:41 amFirst time I've heard of that. Looks like true 1mV to me, but I have not deliberately checked.Got any evidence of this?QuoteYes it does, it's one of the big banner features.

author: Bryan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:54:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 12:53:26 amHmm, checked and no video yet.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:15:54 pm
content: SDS2102Xinput set for 50 ohm Signal from HP E4421B what have, including my cable, enough level accuracy for this kind of rough preliminary test. (I have not corrected cable attenuation because I do not also know this gen flatness table)relative level reference 1MHz Level set for 6div pp on the scope screen.Measured 50mV - 200mV/div -3dB point is 275MHz or higher.500uv/div (p-p 6div) -3dB point over 250MHz(it can easy look it is not made By digital side magnification. Just stop and (horz and or vertical) zoom and look all separate ADC raw points vertical dispersion, distribution)

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 12:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 08:19:27 amBanners and facts - sometimes not from same world. (And I do not direct this to Rigol but all, from shoes and trousers to spectrum analyzers)AFAIK DS2000 500uV/div is derived from 1mV/div using digital side multiplication but this I can not proof, only heard and also made some opinion based to information and test images on the forumDS1000Z is different case and this I have on my lab table for occasional less important purposes(DS1074Z) and here more:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1074z-weird-signal-level-problem/msg563208/#msg563208-First about Rigol's Sin(x)/x accidental FW bug or error in design. (perhaps image cosmetics have been more important than more serious things in T&M equipment)-And then about 1 and 2mV/div things.If need proof more about vertical level things then I will later disassembly it and do measurements in analog front end before ADC.,

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 01:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 08:15:01 amAha. On a side note: according to signal theory you'll have all the information of the part of a signal which falls within the Nyquist limit. Its just our eyes which cannot connect the dots! I did a lot of hands on research in this area and found out that a good signal reconstruction algoritm (note I avoid the word interpolation because that suggests adding information which isn't there) can reconstruct signals up to 0.45fs (500MS/s*0.45=225MHz). A condition for this to work is to have good anti-aliasing filtering.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 03:57:08 pm
content: After watching the video I'm also missing Nth edge trigger near the options.The Rigol has it (optional), but it's very useful to trigger of e.g. SPI bus clocks from a micro that is also doing interrupts etc. If you're debugging data in a long transfer, there is no guarantee the time base will be stable at all.However I must admit that probably for that kind of work a cheap LA is better than any built-in digital decoding etc.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 04:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: hans on September 19, 2015, 03:57:08 pmThe trigger hold-off function can also be used to tirgger on the beginning of an SPI transaction.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 07:47:50 pm
content: Quote from: Bryan on September 19, 2015, 08:54:42 amHere it is:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-797-siglent-sds1000x-review/

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2015, 08:49:41 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 19, 2015, 04:16:01 pmI did not meant to say start of SPI trigger (in that case yes; bursts will be triggered quite well from holdoff), but more exactly Nth clock pulse in a waveform.E.g. a SPI or I2C bus where the uC master controls it, but also has (uncorrelated) other tasks/interrupts going on that may cause the waveform part you want to see jitter around a lot.You could manually move the horizontal on each trigger, but even better is to trigger at the exact bit you want to see or monitor.Arguably triggers are quite important to look at, because there is little use to a scope if you can't trigger on your signal reliably. I don't think Nth edge will be missing for a lot of people, but it was a difference I noticed and personally value a lot.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 07:26:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 19, 2015, 12:50:03 amThis might indicate the AWG HWisinstalled and the -S version as available from the factory is AWG enabled before shipping.I wonder why Siglent just didn't offer AWG as a purchasable option as they do with the SDS2000 series AWG optionMight have to rip the covers off mine next week when it arrives.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 07:55:56 am
content: @tautechI may be wrong but didn't you mention you also have an SDG200X AWG? If so could you post some scope screenshots showing a 1MHz, 15MHz and 25MHz square wave please?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 06:50:00 pm
content: Here SDS1000X wfm/s table.More is under work. (sinx/x and vectors on, fast segment acquire speed and other factors, history buffer things)All speeds are averages. (not top speeds between single wfm, minimum average time is 2s. With slower time bases much more.NOTE! In table, model is accidentally wrong. There readSDS2202XCorrect model number is of course SDS1202XTnx for Mark-O about note this error.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 06:13:01 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 20, 2015, 07:26:12 amWell I don't have to open her up, as shipped the basic SDS1000X models do have the the AWG option HW and 30 trial AWG usages, just like the SDS2000.For simple use the SDS1202X performs just as you'd expect and IMHO is a very nice unit. Just as Dave said these units are quite solid, much heavier than the older SDS1000 series. No doubt there maybe some bugs in these just released units but as yet I've not stumbled across one.Might post more findings after dinner.Requests?Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 20, 2015, 07:55:56 amYou are and I've asked Steve and his guys if they would oblige.

author: Timur Born
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 01:55:09 pm
content: With the current price-drops on SDS2000 series units (in EU/Germany), how does the X compete vs. its supposedly bigger brothers?

author: Timur Born
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 02:00:42 pm
content: Dave lists the 1GSa/s sampling rate as the main drawback. Does it limit bandwidth enough to forgo the 200 MHz model and just go for the 100 MHz one (150 EUR price difference before VAT)?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 02:16:26 pm
content: Quote from: Timur Born on September 22, 2015, 02:00:42 pmIf you really need 200MHz real bandwidth on both channels at once, I wouldn't recommend buying this scope. Single channel, no problem.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 02:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 22, 2015, 06:13:01 amDOH!I just shot a teardown and completely forgot to look for the AWG circuit

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 04:51:15 pm
content: You still got the scope? Any chance to test whether the decode only decodes what is on screen or decodes the entire memory?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 05:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 22, 2015, 06:13:01 amHere are screen shots of a SDG2122X outputting a square wave at 1 MHz, 15 MHz and 25 MHz into a SDS2304 (300 MHz) oscilloscope.Steve

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 06:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: Siglent America on September 03, 2015, 04:58:02 pmI'm sorry but EasyWave still looks like a program from 15 years ago made for Windows 2000, and it really shows that very little thought has been put into EasyWave.Just to give you some idea, this is how agoodmodern and intuitive waveform editor software could look like:It's really a shame when decent hardware is let down by poor software, but a big part of the AWG package is the software that comes with it.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 06:34:41 pm
content: Quote from: Siglent America on September 22, 2015, 05:46:52 pmThanks for the screen shots! That doesn't look too bad. I assume the lower bandwidth models should perform similarly?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 06:43:20 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 06:34:41 pmWhat is the rise time? look like a bit over 10ns

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 07:09:25 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 22, 2015, 06:43:20 pmFrom the datasheethttp://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/DataSheet/SDG2000X_DataSheet_DS0202X-E01A.pdfSquarewave ristime: 9 ns 10% ~ 90%, 1 Vpp, 50 Ohm Load

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 07:16:36 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 06:06:02 pmI agree I would love a software like this for my Rigol DG1032Z, but the software alone (pro version shown in the youtube video's) costs more than my unit itself (500£) To be honest, if it was available for my unit, I would not buy it.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 07:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on September 22, 2015, 07:16:36 pmActually, the Basic version is free (and does most of the stuff from the videos!), you only pay if you need the (quite advanced) Pro features enabled.However, my point is *not* that Siglent (and Rigol) should come out with something that copies all the Pro features for free. My point is that software doesn't need to be an unintuitive and primitive mess that looks like it was stuck in the Windows 95 era, and it wouldn't cost them fortune to come up with something that is better than the poor tools they provide with their AWGs, even the more expensive ones.Especially for Siglent the archilles heel has mostly been software. It's about time they realize that this is part of the product and deserves the same attention as the hardware.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 07:47:11 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 07:41:52 pmOn that I can totally agree! Modern programming evironments make it just so much easier and faster to produce user friendly software, so there is absolutely no reason to still use Win95 like devellopments tools. Even the free version of visual studio has tons of feautures to produce very nice GUIs very fast.Maybe Siglent and Rigol should make their code open source, so the community can devellop some nice tools for their hardware. I for sure would be willing to help!

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 07:55:11 pm
content: This open source code would be ideal to start from:http://www.mathdotnet.com/Now, how to convince Rigol and Siglent to make the necesarry tools available so that we can write a C# program to download arbitrary waveforms to our favorite hardware...

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:07:07 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on September 22, 2015, 07:55:11 pmYou can already, although it could mean you'd have to transfer the data via USB flash drive. Or if the AWG supports SCPI and have documentation then you could even put something together to push the waveform directly to the device.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:17:24 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 08:07:07 pmHave a look at what Tek supplies with their AWG's:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-afg1022/msg761474/#msg761474

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:27:09 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 08:07:07 pmI will study this a bit to see what is necesarry...

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:28:44 pm
content: I can't get past Siglent's crappy website. Their top navigation bar doesn't work in Safari, Firefox, or Chrome on Mac OS X. Furthermore, they're using mixed fonts all throughout their website, nobody uses serif fonts on the web. It's unprofessional and shows inattention to detail. A website represents a company, and is typically the main face of a company. If they can't get something as simple as their website right I can only imagine their products are just as crappy.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:32:35 pm
content: Quote from: nbritton on September 22, 2015, 08:28:44 pmUse this one:http://www.siglentamerica.com/index.aspx

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:42:43 pm
content: I agree. Siglent's website is total crap. They should hire a decent web designer. The website of Siglentamerica is slightly better but you need to know what you are looking for.

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:46:14 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 22, 2015, 08:32:35 pmThe fonts are consistent on that site, but the top navigation bar is still broken.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 08:55:15 pm
content: Quote from: nbritton on September 22, 2015, 08:46:14 pmWin 7 and Chrome OK here.Steve from USA will see this and maybe get some optimisation done for other browsers and HW.State yours exactly.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 09:40:42 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 22, 2015, 08:17:24 pmIt's of course unfortunate that ArbExpress doesn't work with their new entry level AWGs (which even aside from the software support don't look particular attractive unless you're a Tek fan, the only interesing AWGs from Tek are the high end ones).But that doesn't change the fact that Arb Express is a nice piece of software, plus it also supports a lot of older Tek AWGs.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 09:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 22, 2015, 08:55:15 pmWell, they should have done that long ago, shouldn't they? I mean, there are exactly *three* main browsers (IE, Firefox, Chrome) and designing a website that works with all three isn't rocket science.Plus what nbritton said, it's annoying and highly unprofessional. The website is the first face of your company most customers will see. Siglent.com is a mess, and very few visitors will be aware that they should go to siglentamerica.com (which is only partially better than siglent.com). Both websites clearly reflect the complete disregard for anything software in Siglent. Maybe it's not just the developers of EasyWave that are stuck in 1995?I mean, seriously, if you can't even be arsed to get your website in order how can you expect people to see you as anything else than amateurs?

author: Timur Born
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 10:26:28 pm
content: www.siglent.eu

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 10:33:57 pm
content: Quote from: Timur Born on September 22, 2015, 10:26:28 pmNot really:http://www.siglent.eu/customer-info/Who is Siglent.eu?Siglent.eu is a registered trade name and owned by JR Special Electronics company registered under the chamber of commerce #: 62793575 in the Netherlands. Siglent.eu was founded in 2013 in cooperation with Siglent technologies CO.,LTD.Siglent.eu is an independent official distributorthat will represent Siglent technologies CO.,LTD in sales and service.Even though the URL suggests it this is not one of Siglent's websites.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 10:34:07 pm
content: siglent.eu is not an official Siglent website! They just shuffle boxes from various Chinese equipment manufacturers. I'm not quite sure about how official their ties with Siglent are. Tautech was way more helpful with my SDS2000 problems than siglent.eu where I bought the damned thing! My complaints appearantly went on the 'if we don't respond they hopefully go away' stack.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 10:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on September 22, 2015, 07:47:11 pmPersonally I value cross platform software higher than .NET windows only software - even if it doesn't look as pretty and didn't use a flashy ribbon interface. Bling doesn't count for much after a while..NET might get there one day - at last Microsoft are getting off their high horse and talking about supporting other platforms, but its not a reality yet.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 11:01:13 pm
content: I agree. If you develop electronics related software nowadays better make sure to support MAC & Linux as well!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 11:30:36 pm
content: Quote from: hendorog on September 22, 2015, 10:48:51 pmNot sure what you're talking about. .NET isn't Windows only, .Net programs can be made to run under Linux through Mono (OSS .Net clone), and Microsoft has now made relevant parts of the .Net framework open source anyways.Quote from: nctnico on September 22, 2015, 11:01:13 pmMac (btw, it's 'Mac' not 'MAC', the name of Apple's computers is not an acronym, and 'MAC' is something completely different than a computer made by Apple!) and Linux are pretty much niche platforms (Macs even more so than Linux) when it comes to T&M applications, fact is that Windows is by far the best supported platform and this is unlikely to change anytime soon.Plus there's the problem that many (most?) cross platform programs often violate the style guides of at least one platform unless each variant gets an UI that is adapted to the target platform, which means a simple port won't cut it.If Linux/Mac support is possible without compromising other variants then great but I'd primarily focus on the platform that roughly 95% of users are going to use.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 11:38:26 pm
content: Running .Net programs on Mac or Linux requires these programs have been designed to do so from the start. Microsoft isn't pushing that. Its the same mess they made with Windows CE. Portable on crutches.Recents polls on EEVblog indicate about 30% of the people on this forum use Linux. I wouldn't call that a niche market for T&M and CAD software. The major vendors have been providing tools with support for multiple platforms for a good reason.Last but not least: it is not difficult to write cross platform programs which are native applications when compiled for a certain platform (no, not emulated). There are excellent frameworks which do the heavy lifting and hide much of the idiosynchronies of the underlying OS (win-win). I'm writing Windows applications regulary but my primary test & development platform for those applications is Linux. When I hit compile on Linux I get a native Linux application and when I hit compile on Windows I get a native Windows application. In both cases the application will adhere to the user's style settings.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2015, 11:58:29 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 11:30:36 pmMono has always been behind what is happening and has lacked the full support of MS. My observation is that it is seen as a poor cousin by .NET developers.I agree that Microsoft are finally coming around and changing their policies, so hopefully mono will become mainstream with better support.However it is hard to know what the current status is without actually using it as the devil is in the details.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 11:30:36 pmThats what got us into this mess... Chicken and egg situation. Many people use Apple products - I am typing this on an Apple laptop as it was by far the best hardware available for the price at the time. Linux is widely used in fields which are closely related to the electronics industry - e.g. education and software development. And of course in embedded systems.The electronics and T&M market has become entrenched in Windows, which is frustrating for people used to using multiple platforms - the best platform for the job.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 07:35:12 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 09:50:50 pmAnd you've taken the time to PM the CEO of Siglent America and mention website problems.........not.It would have taken less time than your post and you choose to pollute this thread with garbage.

author: Timur Born
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 07:46:20 am
content: So if I was on the market for an Oscilloscope, would I get one of these inexpensive X-series Siglents, make use of their current price-drop on the SDS2000 range or rather look at other manufacturers in the price-range?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 07:56:21 am
content: Quote from: Timur Born on September 23, 2015, 07:46:20 amIt really depends on your needs.I've only had one for a day and basic functionality seems good and I need to spend more time with it.At this time I like it very much, it is a nice entry level scope.rf-loop says he has found several issues but as yet I don't know if they are serious or not.I imagine that they can be remedied with firmware and hope Siglent fixes them fast.

author: Timur Born
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 08:56:39 am
content: It really depends on what it offers.Apart from the very useful 500 uV/div, what does the X series offer over other Oscilloscopes of its price-range?And besides the higher sample-rate and memory-depth, what does the SDS2000 series offer over the X (with their price being closer together now)?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 09:54:22 am
content: Quote from: Timur Born on September 23, 2015, 08:56:39 amUp to amazing 500000 segment/s speed (measured top) acquire up to 1024 segments..(in Siglent Ad sheet 300000/s what is more fair for more wide kind of situations)Speed what is far over any scope what I know in this price class and next price class. Many times speed is not so important due to typical use of segmented memory acquisition. But it need remember that if record example 10ns pulses every 1 second it can record 1000 fast pulses and if there happend something what trig it come also captured, trigger rearm time is really short.If run this feature over amount of buffer (max 1024) it start new turn and overwrite old. It takes while it can start new sequence. Max repeating period with 1000 segments is somewhere around 80ms (I have measured only with some settings). So it is not very useful to use it for continuous rare random glitches hunting from short trig period signal streams (as can see also in Dave's video. But there is lot of other things where this is very useful.Always when scope is running it also store every single acquisition with time stamp to history buffer using speed what is current wfm/s speed in use. For this, there is up to 80000 acquisitions (depending one acquisition lenght) FIFO buffer. When ever stop scope, this buffer can inspect. Also these can horizontal pan/zoom and measure..(it means: most simply example. You see something happend and you stop scope. Nearly always you are late... but lets look history, you may find it still there (play back, forward, speed what you want). Of course if current wfm/s speed in use is 60000wfm/s there is only just over 1s hisstory. You can also force scope to slow wfm/s speed. (if it is useful for example longer time history)History buffer works seamless always in backround when scope is acquiring (exept if fast segmented memory acquisition is in use or scope is in roll mode)I do not know this level scope where ERES is used. More typical is boxcar average based Hi-Res function what need less processing and is not so good for signal details.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:05:53 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on September 22, 2015, 11:58:29 pmUnderstandable, since Mono is not an MS project. In fact, MS had nothing o do with Mono, it was a project started by Ximian.QuoteThen I have to say you didn't observe very well. Mono is not a cousin, it isn't even a MS project, it was created as a compatible clone of the .NET framework for non-Windows platforms (although Mono works on Windows as well). Of course since its a clone Mono isn't 100% compatible, and if you want to develop cross-platform there are a few things you need to pay attention to.QuoteMono *is* mainstream and very well supported on Linux and other non-Windows OSes (including Android), plus now that .Net is open source it will incorporate even more of parts of .Net which will make it even easier to write cross-platform applications.QuoteIt's actually not that hard:http://www.mono-project.com/docs/But like with many other complex things you have to spend some time to become familiar with it.QuoteThe electronics and T&M market has become entrenched in Windows, which is frustrating for people used to using multiple platforms - the best platform for the job.As ntnico said the electronics market is mostly Windows and Linux, but yes, T&M is mostly Windows for good reasons, simply because most T&M engineers want to create test solutions quickly without fuss, and that is unfortunately easier than on Linux which generally needs a lot more babying.Apple's OS X isn't an alternative simply because it's a desktop/laptop platform that runs of a very limited set of pretty expensive hardware, plus Apple's habit of cutting down on standard ports and the pretty short support cycles of OS and even hardware make it a pretty unattractive alternative for lab use.Back to the idea of writing an open source waveform editor, you have two options here: you could use the idealistic way and develop for Linux or Mac as primary platform which I'm sure would make a few Linux and Mac users very happy, but then the vast majority of Siglent/Rigol AWG users will still have to rely on the crap Siglent and Rigol software because they run Windows. Or you can go the practical way and develop for the platform that is used by the majority of users (Windows), which means your software will serve a lot more people (plus you'll more likely to get useful feedback). And if you plan accordingly you can make your application cross-platform so Linux and even OS X isn't completely left out either.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:27:05 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 23, 2015, 10:05:53 amSorry but this is just nonsense. Developers don't have to choose whether to develop cross platform or not. Nowadays it is actually easier to use a cross platform framework because such a framework comes with a lot of goodies which make programming easier regardless whether the goal is a cross platform application or not. Is that so hard to see? There is way more out there (and better too) than Visual Studio and .Net.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:36:19 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 22, 2015, 11:30:36 pmExactly right. I recall that was where we started - sacrifice the bling if need be and make it cross platform.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:40:59 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 22, 2015, 11:38:26 pmNo, why should they? It's up to developers to take their target platform(s) into consideration.QuoteThat's all nice and well but CAD (or software development or microcontroller toolkits or whatever) isn't T&M, you're comparing apples with oranges. And the fact is that T&M is predominantly Windows, which is the platform supported by all major T&M vendors. I agree that its sad (I'd like to see more Linux support), and it's slowly starting to change, but it would be illusory to believe Linux will be a relevant player in the T&M market in the next several years.QuoteI'm not talking about native applications, I am talking about UX styleguides which are pretty different for Windows and Linux, and even more so for Apple OS X. It's all well and dandy if you compile your app as native executable for all platforms, but that doesn't miraculously change the user interface to Windows or OS X conventions. Which means you'd still have to design a separate UI for each platform, or you risk your app looking like cancer on other platforms.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:44:28 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on September 23, 2015, 10:36:19 amI agree except for the bling. The last thing you'd want is another app that looks like it came straight from 1995, something which seems to be the case for the majority of cross platform applications unfortunately.The problem is that even most good software developers are pretty awful at UX design, which is very difficult to get right. And that unfortunately shows more often than not.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 11:16:59 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 23, 2015, 10:44:28 amThe rapid improvement in capability of browser based apps might make the OS irrelevant soon anyway. The old roadblocks which made that impractical that are rapidly going away. I used to think it would never happen, but now I'm not so sure.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 11:26:00 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 23, 2015, 10:40:59 amThat is overly dramatic. There are not many different ways to do a good user interface so OSX, Windows and Linux are not far apart nowadays. If you put applications for these platforms next to eachother you'll see they all have a border, they all have a menu, a status bar at the bottom and buttons & similar controls to do something and an area in the middle where stuff happens (show status, draw a graph, type text, etc). In a cross platform framework you typically just tell the framework 'I want these items in the menu and these buttons / controls at that location'. Because the framework uses the underlying OS's API to draw a window, buttons, etc the end result is a program which looks, feels and IS native to the target OS AND follows the user's preferences. You really don't have to design a different UI for each platform.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 12:04:36 pm
content: IM a noob, but is python an option on linux, via lxi / scpi ?Also do most test equipment come with LabView drivers?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 03:20:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 23, 2015, 11:26:00 amNo, it isn't, although I can certainly understand why you might think it is.QuoteThis is a very good example why I said most software developers are terrible at UX and UI design. There's a lot more to it than borders, menus etc. It's about how the application interacts with the the user in the various contexts on the platform, i.e. what are the users expectations and how are they satisfied by the program, the usability, integration in the environment and a lot more. It's for a reason why doing UX and UI design takes a lot of learning and experience, most of it (i.e. Human Factors) which is outside the scope of even most professional software developers.Proper UI design also doesn't mean that you develop your app and slap some UI on top of it. The UI is a project in itself, i.e. several wireframes/sketches are produced, then when narrowed down mockups are created and evaluated in user trials, until the final design is found. And that is repeated for other platforms as well. Often developing the UI takes as much time or more than to develop the actual program behind it.Don't take this personal but the fact you talk about APIs and frameworks for user elements tells me that you don't really fully understand UX or UI design. Which isn't surprising as I said many great software developers don't understand it, and which is why there are UX and HF specialists and UI designers and which is why they are often better paid than software developers.BTW, one of the reasons why Apple is so successful is that they understand UX pretty well, much better than most other players in the market.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 04:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 23, 2015, 03:20:14 pmI'm not going as far as user trials (I leave that to my customers) but in the applications where I need a GUI the design of the GUI is a seperate (first) part of the project. Analysis of the workflow, what the user should do when, what the user perceives as logical, making sketches in Visio, making sure people with a visual handicap (color blindness for example) can use the program, etc are part of that. You can take UI design to all kinds of levels (and usually there isn't one best solution!) but when I sit behind a Mac, Windows or Linux machine I see the user interface design basics have moved together very closely. So unless you have a very specific user interface requirement (extremely dumb users, touch screen only, etc) there really is no reason to design a specific user interface for a specific platform. In many cases that would actually be counter productive. Take Eclipse or Kicad for example. If these applications would work differently depending on the OS it would be hard for users to switch from one OS to the other.The point is: once the user interface design is done the user interface itself consists of controls which need to be placed somewhere inside a window and some code which deals with the user interface.

author: znroot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 06:04:21 pm
content: I just look the teardown... What about RTCC? Does the scope retain hour and data?And on Logic Analizer: the I2C, SPI etc they are publishing as product feature are only on the 2 channels, it's right?Anyone know if there is the need to unlock the device through separate-buy serials?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 07:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: nicolozilio on September 23, 2015, 06:04:21 pmAs for the RTC, at this stage itISmissing and a screen capture file date is very wrong.As this is a new to market BUT pre-release dealer version there is quite probably more refinements of FW and HW to come.The early SDS2000 series release to dealersdid nothave all HW installed.Daves teardown shows this be the case also with the SDS1000X series as there are several unpopulated areas on the PCB.Full option range and pricing at this stage has not been released.There is a option management UI in the scope and it will be used when options and HW versions are offered.Teardown link:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-800-siglent-1000x-oscilloscope-teardown/Editchanged for better understanding,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 05:49:47 pm
content: SDG2042X review by Jack G. Ganssle:http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/break-points/4440636/Siglent-s-new-arbitrary-waveform-generator

author: t3chiman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 03:58:59 pm
content: Ordered a SDG2042X from Tequipment August 28; received October 23, 2015. A two-month wait. Bothersome on an "announced" product, but a definite improvement over the initial mid-December estimate. Product was packaged well and survived the UPS shipping ordeal in good shape cosmetically.Initial bootup takes about 20 seconds. The screen is disconcertingly blank for the first 2 or 3, then lights up reassuringly. Initial versioning info:S/W: 2.01.01.12R1H/W: 01-00-00-22-00A thread on theEEVBlog Specificboard alerted me to the existence of a firmware update. I copied the SDG2000_V200R001B01D01P15R2.ADS file to a 1GB USB flash drive, with partition type 0x0B ("Win95 FAT32") on a Suse Linux box. Actual firmware update proceeded according to the included Instructions. 30 seconds later, I got the "Restart" directive. New versioning info:S/W: 2.01.01.15R2H/W: 01-07-00-23-00<<<<---- Interesting that the H/W version changed too.Self-tests executed with no complaint.On to the evaluation phase ...