Learn EE being a computer engineering student? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Cuboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 01:38:13 pm
content: We do computer structures, computer architecture, and more digital "electronics" than analog. And lots, lots of programming.I want to learn how to design analog circuits, and all that good stuff knowing a little about digital electronics. Any recommendations on how to start?

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 01:55:57 pm
content: Calculus, matrix algebra, and then circuit theory. These will get you to the point where you can analyze and design basic analog circuits. However, you can do a lot just by learning to use LTSpice and working with circuit designs you find on the internet. Find a circuit similar to what you want, model it in LTSpice, and then tweak it to meet your needs. There are lots of other free tools available to help you design analog circuits without having to design them from scratch. And there are lots of experts available in forums to advise you when you need help.But, if you are still in school and want to have circuit design skills, I would advise you to take beginning and advanced circuits classes.

author: Cuboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 02:10:48 pm
content: I have done linear algebra and multivariable calculus so from the math point of view i think im ready.Althought what you suggested it's a great idea, i want to understand what each component does first. I know what a resistor, inductor, and capacitor does and the math behind it, althought i find quite hard to understand schematics and the idea behind them.I think i should learn circuit analysis first, then go for more advanced stuff but i am quite lost.Maybe first learning about circuit analysis first, what each component does and stuff like that would be more helpful.Im still in school, but i am just able to choose subjects related to my career.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 03:02:39 pm
content: Did you take Differential Equations before Linear Algebra? It seems to go either way as to which is first. In any event DE is a required subject - at least for the theory of electronics. Lots of trig equations and, of course, Laplace Transforms - very useful for Circuit Analysis and Control Systems. Fourier Analysis is not usually on a math track but it will come up later on in the Signals course. In the 10 semesters of a 5 year EE degree, I would expect to see a math related class every semester starting with Calc I. Pre-Calc is just a pre-requisite to even getting started. So much for math... One hint: Go back and master partial fraction expansion - you will absolutely need it for Laplace Transforms and it seems to be glossed over in earlier classes. Plenty of help on the Internet.Look into the "Real Analog" course at Digilenthttps://learn.digilentinc.com/classroom/realanalog/Or the Electrical Engineering track at Khan Academyhttps://www.khanacademy.org/science/electrical-engineeringThe nice thing about the EE program at Khan Academy is that the math program is right next door. This is a really useful site.I wrote a dissertation sized Reply #20 to the MultiMeter thread re: The Digilent Analog Discovery 2. It is IDEAL for students.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/multimeter-227202/msg2890080/#msg2890080Make friends with MATLAB or Octave - they are great tools for solving equations. MATLAB has a Student and Home license that makes it reasonably inexpensive. Octave is a work-alike (more or less) that is free. I would include wxMaxima in that list. Desmos.com (graphing) and Symbolab.com (solving) will also be helpful.Have fun!

author: Cuboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 04:47:25 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 28, 2020, 03:02:39 pmThanks for the info!

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 05:20:15 pm
content: Quote from: Cuboy on January 28, 2020, 01:38:13 pmIf you are doing this for self-improvement then I suggest you extend your current knowledge incrementally by venturing into a project you don't know how to solve.... so for example... maybe sensors... perhaps weighing scales... or temperature... the rabbit hole goes deep.The trouble with learning 'analog' is that.... the world is analog so it is a big task... best to break it down a bit first.There are MOOCs.... e.g. I did MITx 6.002x: Circuits and Electronics when it was first offered as a MOOC; which was OK if you are interested in transfer functions and refreshing your calculus but that might not really be what you want. That course is basically tailored aroundhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Foundations-Electronic-Circuits-Kaufmann-Architecture/dp/1558607358(online as a PDF if you google but obviously the pBook is much better to pore over)Have fun!

author: Cuboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 05:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on January 28, 2020, 05:20:15 pmWow great course, this is what i was looking for.Was it hard to complete? i want to get a grasp on the calculus of analog circuits.Looks great! Thanks!

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 05:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on January 28, 2020, 05:20:15 pmQuote from: Cuboy on January 28, 2020, 05:35:04 pmQuote from: Cuboy on January 28, 2020, 05:35:04 pmI had to re-learn my calculus from decades back... but it was re-learning so do-able. Wolfram Alpha is a great helpIt was challenging and I can do math me.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2020, 04:42:17 am
content: I wonder what the merits are of approaching analog electronics from a CE perspective. Digital Signal Processing (DSP) is an important bridge, as are general numerical methods for solving equations -- many tough equations happen to be important to signals and analysis.So, that includes calculus, linear algebra and numerical methods already. (If you don't know: the most average and boring problem in DSP, is some variation on accumulating values in a variable:xprev = xnew;xnew = xprev + ynew;This is basically the discrete implementation of integration: Riemann summation.)Maybe throw in some SPICE, or maybe not something quite that advanced, but there are simpler, easier algorithms that can solve nonlinear systems, to modest success.You might not quite understand why these algorithms are done the way they're done, but DSP has a certain intuitive appeal to it I think, and SPICE you get to see the circuits you're simulating (if you use a schematic entry method, anyway).It's easy to see that, for example, averaging over the last N samples of a sequence of points, gets you a slower-moving output than the input: a low-pass filter. It is, however, harder to see why this is actually a rather poor filter! (That said, it's so trivial to implement that we do actually use it quite a bit.)And calculus tells you a big hint about why DSP works, how it can be used to approximate an analog filter.In typical EE curriculum, circuits are introduced first, then diff eq, then DSP along with other signals courses (transforms, communications..). I'm not quite sure how over-your-head these subjects/terms are, right now. It sounds like you probably don't have most or any of the latter courses, but you probably do have their groundwork!The biggest thing that you'll be missing from a casual look into DSP, I think, is how to create a filter of some frequency or impulse response. The answer lies in the equivalence between the Fourier transform (continuous) and Z transform (discrete). Kind of like saying: "this Riemann summation, I like it, but do wereallyhave to take such small step sizes? Can't we do it with step sizes close to the rate change of the input?" Well, as it turns out, you can, but it's kind of weird?When you solve for some kind of filter, you get a family of polynomial equations, whose values fit the response better and better as the polynomial degree increases, and whose roots or poles are the gain and rate terms in the filter (or L and C in the analog filter). The Z transform, it turns out, is literally a distorted version of the Fourier transform -- a half plane in F space is the unit circle in Z. Weird, right? Quite useful though!Come to think of it, I never did sit down and fully understand the Fourier transform in computational terms. I should probably just write it out some day. The optimizations (FFT, butterflying?) are weird (especially on most machines not made specifically for it). But, fortunately they aren't necessary to understand the general function of the transform itself!Relevant comic:https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-02-01Tim

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2020, 09:02:52 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on January 29, 2020, 04:42:17 amIndeed.I really recommend finding an interesting problem and learning around it. You don't need to be in formal education to learn... books, YouTube, MOOC etc...There are so many interesting areas where you can start small and then go down the rabbit hole. DSP is a great one. You could even start simplier... DDS? Which leads you filters, amplifiers... etc.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2020, 04:05:51 pm
content: Things like FFT and Riemann Sums have always been written in Fortran - probably still are:https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/57257-fft-code-in-fortranFor some reason, I like using Fortran for Numerical Analysis. After using it for 50 years or so, it just seems like a perfectly suitable language. Sure, it could be done in Python, probably has, but it would be like eating one of the vegan hamburgers. It just doesn't taste right no matter how much ketchup you use!The place to play with the math is MATLAB (or Octave) because it can do all this stuff with built-in functions. wxMaxima has a place as well.So, you take the FFT of a signal to get the amplitudes of the various harmonics and then stuff those amplitudes back into a Fourier Series to get the original waveform.https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/374592-how-to-use-fft-to-find-fourier-series-coefficientsJust about everything an engineer needs to do is already built into MATLAB (and Octave).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2020, 04:20:10 pm
content: How about starting simple: DC Circuits, Resistance, Capacitance, Inductance, Kirchhoff's Laws, Norton's Theorem, Thevenin's Theorem. First semester EEFollow that up with AC circuits, Impedance, Frequency Response, Phase Shift, Power Factor, Time Domain, Forced Response, etc. Second semester EEGet the basics down first before trying to use DSP to create a filter without ever modeling one from the basic RC Low Pass Filter. In other words "What's a filter?".