Home soldering station... ADS200 or ??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: radeohedca
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 03:05:59 pm
content: I'm in the market for a decent quality SMD capable soldering station. I use a JBC (straight handle + tweezers) at work but it's too far out of my budget for home hobbyist use. After a lot of reading and consideration of features, initial and consumable (tip) costs I've zero'ed in on the Pace ADS200 with setback stand. Are there any other contenders I should consider before I pull out the credit card ?Thanks.

author: Pitrsek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 10:23:03 pm
content: I don't see ADS200 being much different in price from JBC. The entry level JBC BT-2BWA goes brand new for 190+VAT. Also with some patience, some reasonable deals can be had on ebay. The single channel stations can support tweezers as well, but you have to manually change the plugs. Compact stations do not support tweezers.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 11:14:17 am
content: The up front cost of a JBC station isn’t that bad. As the OP very correctly said, the tips is where JBC pricing is way, way higher. JBC tips cost around 3x as much, and aren’t as durable.

author: radeohedca
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 11:59:43 am
content: That's exactly right Tooki... JBC tips are far more expensive.

author: Pitrsek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 06:05:03 pm
content: Can't comment on JBC longevity - I've been using it for a year in our lab with no issue, but it is RnD lab, not a shop floor. On the other hand, how much soldering will you do in your home lab? Indeed, it seems that JBC tips on digikey are $$$. On ebay the price is somehow more in line with what we have in Europe(20-24eur per tip +Vat). As I don't do crazy small stuff, my needs for different sized tips is not that large(ie. 2-3 different tips are all I need). To go back to original posting, I'd consider if I'd want to use tweezers in future or not. The european price for the tweezers is very reasonable. Provided that you are willing to DIY the stand.I haven't used Pace, I used metcal MX. The soldering part was awesome, ergonomics not so much - huge pen, tail heavy with heavy RF cable. The cable could pull the pen out of the stand, if you had stand on the edge of table. I got used to that after half a year. It seems that Pace is smaller, hopefully the balance will be better. The soldering tweezers were the worst I have ever used - first one half would heat up, then second...Actually my original comment was more in way of buying what you know you like(I assume you like JBC at work), than trying to save bit of money and trying something new.It seems that we have quite a bit better pricing on JBC stuff here in Europe.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 06:40:38 am
content: You do realize they make (excellent) tweezers for the ADS200? It’s hardly something exclusive to JBC, dude...As for tip costs: as soon as you go beyond basic chisel, bevel, and conical tips, JBC prices go up sharply. This isn’t the case with Pace: you can get e.g. hoof (SMD drag soldering) tips for barely more than a bevel.(With desoldering it’s even worse: JBC’s tips costfour timesas much as Pace. Just insane.)

author: Pitrsek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 05:17:24 pm
content: Again, I do not have experience with the Pace stuff, they very well could be awesome. If you like them, good for youAs far as tweezers go the AM120 from JBC are my favorites. The metcal ones were awful, the PA120 from JBC were mediocre at best, older Ersa ones were somehow decent. Again I brought the tweezers into a discussion as I believe it should be one of the aspects to consider (the price of Pace is not that different from JBC). Esp. if OP is using them at work - sooner or later you'd want them in home lab as well.For my hobby/home use, i don't do as much soldering as to need/warrant specialty tips, or to be bothered with tool longevity(esp. with sleep station), but again - YMMV.You like your Pace stuff, I'm glad for you. Everyone's taste is different. If I had Pace at work, or Hakko, and I liked them, I'd probably not go out searching for something else to save bit of money. Ie. buying the stuff you know you like vs. spending time doing all the research and buying something different.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 06:42:41 pm
content: My replies to you have nothing to do with what I "like".I use JBC at work*, and actually like using them quite a lot. But I'd never consider it for at home because the tips are just too damned expensive, and clearly that's a concern to the OP, since they mention tip costs right in the original post!!You clearly missed the OP's point: they've already pretty much decided on Pace, and just wanted to make sure they weren't overlooking something that might be an even better overall choice. But I doubt there is, given that anything that performs better is significantly more expensive and cost is a stated factor.*But my boss and I both agree that if we didn't already have a big investment in JBC stations (acquired before either of us worked there), we wouldn't choose JBC again due to the tip costs.P.S. Regarding your statement about JBC being cheaper in Europe than in North America: perhaps. But Pace is cheaper than JBCin Europe, too.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 03:37:59 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 02, 2021, 06:42:41 pmThe difficulty of choosing is between PACE ADS200, JBC BT-2BWA and I-CON NANO MK2At the moment the PACE ADS200 has a higher cost compared to the Nano and the BT-2BWA, from what I read the ADS200 is not able to unload all the power on the tip, but it seems very well built and has a professional look, the JBC BT-2BWA station seems to be out of production I think, on the official website this model is no longer present, as we know the JBC tips are also more expensive and have a shorter lifespan, the I-CON NANO MK2 has only 80w but perhaps this is not a problem for most jobs, as for power the I-CON NANO MK2 I do not know if it is comparable to the PACE ADS200, its big advantage is that the tips are very cheap, an original JBC tip is true that it costs around 33€ but from what I understand it still lasts a year used regularly.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 06:34:02 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 18, 2024, 03:37:59 pmWhy did you resurrect this years-old (and now outdated) thread to respond to an ancient, no longer relevant reply of mine, when we’ve had ample discussion in your recent thread?

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2024, 08:34:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 18, 2024, 06:34:02 pmYes it is an old discussion but it was interesting because we were discussing the management costs of the JBC BT-2BWA, since then I don't know how much the situation has changed, however you have to excuse me because you had already explained to me why you had chosen Ersa instead of JBC, you had answered me in this discussion:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ersa-i-con-nano-and-nano-mk2-differences/msg5665379/#msg5665379Let's say I'm in the same situation as you, the cost between the JBC BT-2BWA and the I-CON NANO MK2 is almost the same, as already said the crucial point remains the cost of the tips, sorry again you had already answered me about it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 11:16:12 am
content: Huh? I’mnotin that situation — I am not shopping for a soldering station. I’ve had my i-con nano at home for years, and selected an i-con 2V Mk2 at work a year ago (when I could have bought any one I wanted).

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:03:27 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2024, 11:16:12 amI wasn't referring to now, in your post you said that at home you would never consider a JBC station because of the very expensive tips, you explained to me that ten years ago you purchased your I-CON NANO, I meant that I'm in the same situation because at the moment I'm also evaluating whether it's worth getting a JBC because of the cost of the tips.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 18, 2024, 03:37:59 pmProbably still available.https://eleshop.eu/jbc-bt-2bqa-soldering-station.html

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:07:20 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 18, 2024, 03:37:59 pmThere is now the ADS200Plus, that is probably improved. But there is still no review.https://paceworldwide.com/news/introducing-ads200-plus

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:25:37 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 19, 2024, 12:03:27 pmI was never in the situation you are in: 10 years ago, the nano cost significantly less than now, and the JBC cost more. So JBC was out of the question because it costfarmore than the Ersa.With the increased cost of the nano and the spectacular price you found for the JBC, that makes for an entirely different situation where the JBC is a strong contender.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on October 19, 2024, 12:07:20 pmYes the JBC BT-2BWA is still for sale, I meant that there is no trace of this station on the official website:https://www.jbctools.com/I really like the ADS200 Plus, unfortunately its price has increased, it exceeds 300 euros, here it says that it costs $321.00, but the figure is not in euros and I imagine there are also shipping costs, if I can find it for 300 € it would be a great alternative to the JBC BT-2BWAhttps://paceworldwide.com/ads200-soldering-station-td-200-tip-heater-cartridge-iron

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 12:41:44 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2024, 12:25:37 pmIn addition to the price difference between Ersa and JBC, I thought you had also ruled out JBC due to the cost of the tips, an evaluation I am making at the moment.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 02:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 19, 2024, 12:41:44 pmNo. I didn’t “rule it out” (as in, a binary yes/no) due to that, it is simply one factor (among many) to weigh.10 years ago when I was buying my station for at home, what ruled out JBC a priori was that I could not afford a JBC station, period. So the cost of tips wasn’t part of the calculation because JBC wasn’t in the running anyway. A year ago when I was selecting a station at work, tip cost was just one of many factors; tip availability in Switzerland was another; handle design, the user interface*, and the integrated iron holder (not convenient for my work workbench) were some others.But listen, man, you just need to make a decision and go with it. Asking a billion follow-up questions going in circles isn’t helping anything. It looks to me like you’re stuck in analysis paralysis — consider how much time you’ve spent on this. Then consider how much money you could have made by working during that time. It’s probably more than the added cost of a fancy JBC or a “big” i-con.*I don’t especially like JBC’s digital interface. Had I found a source for the model with a knob, I might have considered JBC more!

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 03:46:53 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2024, 02:29:15 pmWe are discussing as it is done between friends, at the moment I was not asking questions, I do research every now and then, I do not consider it a waste of time, I did not think it was a problem, everyone has different needs obviously, I do not want to be boring but in my situation the crucial point is the management costs, I need the station as a hobby not for work, now I do not know exactly how many hours a tip can last, I do not do soldering every day, let's say just as an example 30 minutes a day, if the tip (which costs about € 33) lasts me a year it is more than fine. Okay, thanks. Regards.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 05:46:59 pm
content: 30 minutes a day is nothing. (And as a hobbyist you’ll average far less.)If you care for your tips properlythey will last for years and years. I have not worn out a single tip on my Ersa in 10 years, and at this rate they’ll be good for another 30…

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 05:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2024, 12:25:37 pmThings were different back in 2014. There was no PACE ADS200 available, only PACE ST-50, which was 80W only and i think that it was even more expensive than some JBC soldering station.https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ST-50-8007-0500/Soldering-Stations/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 06:27:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on October 19, 2024, 05:55:58 pmYep.I actually have that exact ST-50 at work — it’s what I upgraded from! (I still have it around for the rare times I need desoldering tweezers.)

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 08:20:40 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2024, 05:46:59 pmYes exactly my average will be lower, I will not solder for 30 minutes continuously every day, I do not know exactly how to take care of a tip, the only precaution I think is to clean the tip regularly and not let it heat up too much, usually it solders at 350 °, I do not know the market and I am not an expert but the stations in general seem overpriced to me, I read on the forum that in 2021 for example the price of the PACE ADS200 was around € 200, even the nano as you told me cost less.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 08:58:25 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on October 19, 2024, 05:55:58 pmI was looking at the shop you posted, the Pace ADS200 costs about $282.15 and shipping is free, the price in Euros should be around 259.61€, they should ship to Italy, but I don't know if it's a good alternative to the JBC BT-2BWA, judging by the reviews it doesn't seem:https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=WXL-pWD44pchttps://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0579/Soldering-Stations/https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0578/Soldering-Stations/PricingAll prices on our site are in US dollars. If you are a non-US customer, your credit card company will normally convert your order total from US dollars to your local currency. We do not have control over the exchange rate, but you can get an idea of ​​what it might be by checking this sitehttp://www.xe.com/.We are not responsible for any change in the exchange rate that happens from the point you place your order and the time your credit card is charged.Payment Terms Export orders are accepted on the basis of payment in advance of shipment by wire transfer, or Credit Card. For International non-USA/non-Canadian credit card orders, please contact us by phone at +1-732-222-7077 or by email at SalesTeam@TEquipment.Net. Do not send payment information containing credit card numbers or financial account information via unencrypted email or fax. Sending sensitive payment information through unencrypted email may not be secure, and we will not be responsible for any loss associated with that practice. Please reference your order number on your fax or email.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2024, 10:07:56 pm
content: Hi,Few points in brief:(1) All SDG videos are excellent, but you may be focusing on parts of it not as relevant for your use-case. You may want to focus on the soldering of typical components, and for that, you'll be unlikely to experience any issue between the top brands. If you're soldering a very large part very rarely, then you may be prepared to wait the extra few seconds for instance (it's a decision you need to make).(2) Unless you're unlucky, consider tip life will be at least a decade for any decent brand, since you're not doing production work.(3) When it comes to purchasing, consider import duty + import handling fees in case they apply (they often do between countries (unless they are both member states of the EU).

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 02:51:35 am
content: @shabazHi, thank you very much for the advice.Regarding the Pace ADS200 I saw the video by SDG and the one by EEVblog, both found the same problems, I have to say that it didn't convince me, the hakko fx-888d was almost better despite using the old tip heating technology.I totally agree, I will certainly never find myself doing soldering that requires as much power as those seen in the video, more than anything I look at the parts where the pins are soldered on the through holes, which are more typical soldering as you rightly told me.Well I'm happy that the tips last for many years, for me it's important, it's exactly what I want.Yes, even on Aliexpress for example you have to pay attention to customs duties, luckily the JBC BT-2BWA and also the I-CON NANO MK2 are both available on European shops, I shouldn't have any problems.Thanks again. See you soon. Bye

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 05:41:14 am
content: I have a JBC and ADS200. JBC wins on heat transfer but pens are delicate, i almost feel i have to babysit them, handling carefully. ADS pens are Much more robust construction. My daily driver is the ADS200.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 12:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 20, 2024, 05:41:14 amUnfortunately, I think a perfect soldering station doesn't exist, you have to compromise, in some European shops the PACE ADS200 costs more compared to the JBC BT-2BWA, I also found it in this shop but you have to inquire about shipping costs and customs fees:https://gokimco.com/products/pace-ads200-accudrive-soldering-station-w-td-200-4-tip-bundleHere the ADS200 PLUS costs $309.00, but the same applies as before for shipping costs to Italy and customs duties.https://paceworldwide.com/ads200-soldering-station-td-200-tip-heater-cartridge-ironAs I said, the 80w of the I-CON NANO MK2 are definitely enough for me, even if I read that the NANO is a station more suitable for soldering SMD components.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 09:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 20, 2024, 05:41:14 amJBC T245-A handle is made of plastic and unrepairable, the cable cannot be replaced... But JBC T245-A handle lasts many years. No special problems. I use it at work. I think that the handle was bought in 2009.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 08:54:21 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 20, 2024, 12:12:37 pmWhere did you find that nonsense?SMD components can be every bit as demanding as THT — inductors and power MOSFETs are classic examples of components where the SMD versions are more challenging to solder than THT because of the much larger thermal masses directly on the pads.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 08:58:17 am
content: Quote from: Bud on October 20, 2024, 05:41:14 amMy old workplace was a vocational training center, where the users are primarily first-year apprentices (i.e. not necessarily the gentlest users), and they had only T245 handpieces. They have proven to be more than sufficiently robust.And if one were to fail, one place where JBC is surprisingly inexpensive is the cost of the handpiece. A replacement T245 is far cheaper than a Pace or Ersa handpiece.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 12:02:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 21, 2024, 08:54:21 amActually it was a comment from a user that I read on the forum, but I remembered wrong, in reality the user was not referring to the power of the station but to the size of the tips, he said that the tip of the largest chisel is only 2.0 mm wide. Anyway it is an old post from 2014, it has no importance.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/need-reocommendation-for-soldering-iron/msg374868/#msg374868Instead I realize now that the new icon nano mk2 has 68w unlike the 80w icon nano model, but I don't think 12w makes a difference.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ersa-i-con-nano-and-nano-mk2-differences/msg5640265/#msg5640265I found the i-CON NANO MK2 in Italy for 289€ and free shipping.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 12:19:36 pm
content: Quote from: tookiI use that "feature" to economise a bit with a single iron station and just buy another handle so I can manually swap between T210 (regular use for me) and T245 for larger joints. Only viable if one handle is used a lot less frequently of course.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 01:22:34 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on October 21, 2024, 12:02:08 pmWell that is completely untrue, both now and then. The largest chisel is 10mm I think. The nano and pico use the same tips as the “big” icon stations.Quote from: marck120 on October 21, 2024, 12:02:08 pmThat is incorrect. They have the same power. Read my reply two posts down from the one you linked to: Ersa has always been really bad about specifying wattage, sometimes stating the peak power (80W for the nano/pico) or continuous power (68W for nano/pico).

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 03:31:32 pm
content: @tookiThanks for the clarification, I admit that I did not understand that the 68w declared about the i-CON nano Mk2 was the continuous power.As I said I found the i-CON nano Mk2 on .conrad.it at €289.01, and the JBC BT-2BWA on welectron.com at €306.54, with the JBC BT-2BWA the tip is included in the price (C245-907 2.2x1.0 mm), with the i-CON nano Mk2 an ERSADUR chisel-shaped tip is included.https://www.conrad.it/it/p/ersa-0ic1205a-stazione-di-saldatura-80-w-150-450-c-2902007.htmlhttps://www.welectron.com/JBC-BT-2BWA-Soldering-StationSo to solder the pins on my SHT45 sensor I should order a second finer tip, here too the price difference of the tips is about €10, €22.58 Ersa 102 PD LF 04, and €31.68 the JBC C245-032 Soldering Tip Ø0.4, It is not clear whether the JBC BT-2BWA comes with both handpieces, T470 and T210.https://www.conrad.it/it/p/ersa-102-pd-lf-04-punta-di-saldatura-forma-matita-ersadur-dimensione-punta-0-4-mm-contenuto-1-pz-588390.htmlhttps://www.welectron.com/JBC-C245-032-Soldering-Tip-R04-mm-Conical-StraightThe final cost is 38€ difference, Now I'm not sure what additional tip I really need, but the chisel tip seems too wide to solder the pins of the SHT45, Ø0.4 is maybe even too thin.