FS: Agilent 54855A 6 GHz DSO (Memory/PCIe/Gigabit/HighSpeed Options) - See Video - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2015, 05:46:03 am
content: For sale: As-new Agilent Infiniium 54855A 6GHz DSO with options 001, 003, High-Speed Serial, PCI Express, Gigabit Ethernet Compliance Software.• This oscilloscope was used to validate my 2500A PCI Express Protocol Analyzer design. It has hardly been used the last two years. A new Hitachi Travelstar (best quality) hard disk was installed in 2013 when I bought this oscilloscope from a local, reputable vendor.• As the below video shows in detail, the 54855A is ideal for analyzing PCI Express and other high-speed serial links. It has 8b/10b decoding software installed as well as PCI Express and Gigabit Ethernet compliance software.• A full calibration can be done upon request but not needed since hardly used since the last calibration. Self-test and calibration passes fine as well does 2.5 Gbps protocol decoding, as can be seen in the below video.• Local pickup possible (Irvine, CA).• Contact John@InternationalTestInstruments.com for any questions.YouTube Demo Videohttps://youtu.be/S81jutgIn5QEbay Listinghttp://www.ebay.com/itm/-/151888783495?Note: discount given for wire transfer or cashier's check since Ebay takes some $750 in selling fees.30 Day Money-Back WarrantyIf there are any technical issues with the 54855A, just send it back within 30 days for a full refund! Broken calibration seals as well as any physical damage voids this warranty.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2015, 10:35:19 pm
content: Bump!

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 11:44:50 pm
content: Bump! Any takers? This scope is the one mentioned in the PCI Express 1.1 specification for doing compliance testing. In great shape etc...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:05:24 am
content: This probably is a too specialised piece of kit. Look on Ebay for sold listings to check the price. If you buy specialised test equipment for a project be sure you can write it off completely for that particular project.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 05:44:01 am
content: The Ebay prices ranges from $10K to $13K but none of the available 54855A's have the PCIe and Gigabit Ethernet compliance software installed. One was recently sold for $10.5K but apparently had a small power switch issue and somewhat less licenses installed. I will add a 'best offer' option to the auction...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 11:54:40 am
content: That $10.5k unit sold for a best offer price which is less than $10.5k. For the rest the Ebay 'prices' are asking prices which in some cases may not be a reflection of the true value (IOW: what people are willing to pay for it). It is a hard choice: sit on it for a while longer hoping to get a decent price for it or sell it quicker but then you'd have to look at selling prices of oscilloscopes with similar specs (while forgetting about the compliance software which is probably outdated since most serial buses run at 3GHz or more nowadays).

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:03:34 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 15, 2015, 11:54:40 amThe $10.5k one sold for $9.5k (you can get the link into ebay which reveals the price by putting the item ID intohttp://www.watchcount.com). There was another which sold for $6000 (probably with fewer options, I didn't take a detailed look.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 11:37:05 pm
content: Dropped Price: 6 GHz for only $8700 when paid direct!Thanks for the additional info.The scope is now listed on Ebay for $9995 but since Ebay and PayPal take some $1300 in fees, I'll let this go for $10K - $1K3 = $8K7 if purchased directly and paid via cashier's check or direct bank wire transfer!I have a standing offer from the dealer I bought the scope from. He is willing to buy the scope back for $6K but since I paid him $12.5K only two years ago it is too much to stomach! I'm assuming he is making a couple of thousand on his deals so $8K7 seems reasonable.

author: Monittosan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 09:46:42 am
content: Hi can you PM me your Dealers contact details? That's not bad from a Dealer!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 07:22:49 pm
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 03, 2016, 11:37:05 pmFrankly, if I were you I'd accept the offer from your local dealer (maybe you can even convince him to go a tad higher) instead of hanging on that scope and wait for that one buyer who pays you what you want.The reality is that there isn't really a lot of demand for these old Infiniiums, even less so for the high bandwidth models like yours, not only because of their limitations (the really slow architecture even for its days, the sample memory that shrinks to a tiny 1Mpts at sample rates above 2GSa/s, the low-res VGA screen etc) but also because they have been out of mainstream support for half a decade now. The options available for these scopes are also pretty dated (i.e. USB 2, SATA 1.5Gps, PCIe 1.1), and most engineers that develop for these standards are probably looking into more current versions which simply aren't supported by the 54800A Series.I think $6k is a pretty good offer for a 54855A, especially when (so I assume) you don't have to give any warranties. As I said, you could wait for that one buyer who wants one so urgent that he's willing to pay your price, but more likely than not the scope will end up sittingt around and collecting dust while it's value depreciates even more, which is a prime example of "dead capital".Good luck!

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 03:42:53 am
content: But if a dealer is willing to pay $6K without having a buyer, surely the scope is worth a couple of thousands more. I have just listed it so I will not let it go so easily to the first dealer that low-balls me an offer. I rather give a fellow engineer a direct-deal, cutting out the dealer, which adds no value to the transaction. I have already received a couple of PMs from interested parties so I'm optimistic. If it doesn't sell in a few months then I can look into selling to a dealer again.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 03:47:15 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 07, 2016, 03:42:53 amAlso, I would assume a buyer would be interested because of the capability to do eye diagram measurements on Gen1 (2.5 Gbps) SERDES links and not as a general-purpose scope. This, together with the build-in 8b/10b decoding is very useful when debugging physical SERDES link issues. No everyone needs to have 5Gbps or 10 Gbps links in their designs...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 09:33:01 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 07, 2016, 03:42:53 amYes, but the dealer has a much bigger chance of finding the person to whom it's worth the additional couple of K.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 11:03:24 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 07, 2016, 03:42:53 amYes, from a T&M dealer, who usually offers some warranty and support, who knows his local market (and his customers) and who will trade in other test equipment if required. A dealer who still takes the risk that he can't sell it on or sell it on quickly enough to make a profit. But that's the business he's in, and he will made sure that risk is reflected in his profits. He can also make a package deal if someone buys multiple pieces of test gear from him (mix calculations are a good way to make one piece of equipment look cheaper to the customer than it actually is), which is usually the standard way of getting rid of stock that doesn't sell.QuoteYes, but I doubt many will sink $9k in a special purpose scope that at the end of the day only supports old standards and is pretty much obsolete (the last firmware is from what, 2009?). Hobbyists of course generally don't care much about support but they also rarely have that amount of money to spend on a special purpose scope, and professionals tend to invest into something which isn't already obsolete by the time of purchase (and if they do then they usually make sure the device pays itself off by the job as reselling later will always be a gamble). And for those that sit in the middle, there are other alternatives, i.e other scopes which can do the same (i.e PCIe 1.x measurements and 8B/10B decoding) for a lot less than $9k (plus they often have a faster architecture, and some of them are even still supported).No-one knows, you might be lucky and get asking price!But in my experience you're more likely to end up sitting on it until you have to sell for a lot less than what your local dealer offers.Good luck!

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 06:56:59 pm
content: Nice scope. Good luck with the sale

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 12:56:43 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on January 07, 2016, 11:03:24 amFirst of all, I know for a fact that some of the dealers that sell on Ebay literally sell out of their garage. They offer no additional value and sell on Ebay as everyone else. Also, I received multiple private messages about this scope and that the pricing is about correct. I have not seen much else on Ebay that would be a much better deal. Certainly not for "a lot less than $9K".

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 02:03:00 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 08, 2016, 12:56:43 amNot to break your balls but if the pricing is right then why isn't it sold yet?Something may have a certain value but if there is no demand then it is as good as worthless. Extreme example: try to sell a bar of gold in a refugee camp...

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 03:17:44 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 02:03:00 amIt is not sold yet because I listed it two weeks ago (over Christmas/New Year's). This is a good scope but I need to wait for the right buyer.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 07:48:19 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 08, 2016, 03:17:44 amYour low feedback is going to hurt you on this sale as well I'm afraid. I would not buy a $10k 'scope from someone with only 2 feedback as a seller. Even given that the items which generated the feedback were $700 and consistent with the item currently being sold - that is a point in your favour but not enough to offset the perceived risk, especially as they were sold over a year ago.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 11:04:16 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 08, 2016, 12:56:43 amThat is absolutely true! That doesn't mean they sell, though. There are lots of high price "sold as is" offers that have been there for over a year, sometimes longer (how long exactly you can often see on the superimposed date stamp in that some have in their pictures).QuoteWell, I only did a quick short search for something which offers PCIe compliance and instantly found an 6GHz SDA6020A with PCIe compliance option (and other options) for $7k Buy-It-Now or Best Offer (so the seller will very likely accept less than $7k). This is from a professional T&M dealer with 30d warranty. Plus, the SDA has a much faster architecture, the 50Mpts memory is available at all sample rates, it has a larger screen with higher resolution (and touch), and is still fully supported by its manufacturer (and by its software updates, the latest is from Nov 2015). You can even buy manufacturer warranty for it if you want, so if there's a problem you're covered for the next 1, 2 or 3yrs.And this is directly after the Xmas break where many dealers don't bother with listing expensive stuff because most businesses are closed anyways. There will certainly be more deals like that over the year. For example, there's a guy who somewhat regularly sells such scopes which always come with all options enabled (which not only includes PCIe and USB 2.x/3.0 but a wide range of standards and protocols like Fibre Channel, SAS/SATA 3G, MIL-1553 and so on, plus a whole set of extended math and signal analysis packages). I bought a 3GHz scope from him last year for less than $5k. The 5Ghz and 6Ghz variants rarely go for much more because (unlike the 3GHz version which has 1M/50ohms inputs with BNC) the faster scopes only have 50ohms inputs (although there are 1M adapters for them).I'm not trying to talk you down, just give you some advice. Which is if you're offered $6k for it then you're getting a good price for that scope.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:35:01 pm
content: I'm not an expert on the comparison between Agilent and LeCroy but it seems there are more Agilent scopes for sale and that they fetch a slightly higher price. it could be because there are more accessories available for the Agilent line. I have bought many used high-speed differential and single-ended probes on Ebay for my two Agilent scopes. I have bought 12 GHz differential probes (1169A) for $800 and the probe tips for some $200 on Ebay. Checking the same for LeCroy, there seems to be absolutely less accessories available. Personally, I would rather buy Agilent because I'm familiar with that brand. Others may have different preferences...

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:38:03 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on January 08, 2016, 11:04:16 amNote that USB 3.0 requires a 13 GHz scope so much more expensive.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 12:38:05 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 08, 2016, 10:35:01 pmThe brand doesn't matter, it was really just a quick search for something which can do PCIe testing which came to mind.QuoteThat is true, for the common stuff like general purpose scopes. Especially in the price range where hobbyists participate, which often only know two brands - Tek and HP/Agilent/Keysight.However, that doesn't really make a difference for special purpose kit for which is little demand, and that unfortunately includes high bandwidth scopes with 50 ohms only non-BNC inputs. Pretty much irrespective of the brand.Also, brand loyalty, especially amongst professionals, can change pretty quickly if out of two alternatives one has been abandoned by its manufacturer 5 yrs ago while the other is still fully supported. Even more so when the supported alternative is cheaper.But at the end of the day, the market for second hand high bandwidth scopes is pretty much a buyer's market. I know it hurts, but that's unfortunately how it is.But as I said, I do wish your luck and that your price expectations might come true. But since trading in T&M kit is part of what I do for a living, I'm not optimistic that this will happen.On the other side, never say never.QuoteI don't think there's less than for Keysight. LeCroy's high bandwidth scopes all use the same interface (ProLink), and for that there's apretty large selection of general and specialty probes available(and these are just the current ones). Many of these probes show up on ebay as well, and quite often can be had at pretty decent prices, i.e. a while ago I bought two 3.5GHz HFP3500 probes for less than $250 and $300, one was pretty much new and both came with accessories. I've also seen quite a few WaveLink modular probes (similar to the 1169A) between some $500 and $1k (I remember one 13Ghz probe amplifier being offered for some $400 or so, the tips often go for around the same amount).It's like everything else, if you can wait, do some research and know what you want then you can often find some very good bargains amongst the overpriced crap on ebay.On the other side, probes generally keep their value much better than the scope itself.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 01:17:19 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on January 08, 2016, 10:38:03 pmFor signal analysis and compliance testing, yes (and then you're probably looking at closer to 15GHz). You can still see (and decode) the data stream on a 3GHz scope.But the point was that these older scopes are still being updated with new standards (and the same software that runs on my scope also runs on scopes with much higher bandwidth) and functionality. Plus some of the additions/updates make sense even for lesser bandwidth scopes.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 03:10:13 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on January 09, 2016, 01:17:19 amUnfortunately, you can't. Not if you want meaningful measurement results. Trust me, I tried to capture USB 3.0 signaling on my 6 GHz 54855A and the eye diagrams were completely closed. Especially, when going through a USB 3.0 cable. This is why I had to bite the bullet and buy myself a new 13 GHz Agilent DSO and sell this 6 GHz scope. A 6 GHz scope is useful for measuring 2.5 Gbps signaling, a 5 Gbps signaling requires a 12 GHz scope. Of course, one uses a scope to get accurate measurements, with regards to signal quality and margins.A common rough estimate is that you need a scope with approximately 5 times the bandwidth of the fundamental clock frequency embedded in the SERDES signal. For a 2.5 Gbps signal, the fundamental 8b/10b clock signal is 1.25 GHz so a scope with 5 * 1.25 = 6.25 GHz is needed. For a 5Gbps signal, the required scope bandwidth is double or around 12-13 GHz.https://books.google.com/books?id=xHASd9YksRgC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=fundamental+clock+frequency+8b/10b+encoding&source=bl&ots=Clz1kaBtk9&sig=jWVsaOszCVPkaRt_qXN4vGDi37w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRtOCJ4JvKAhUQ12MKHaUEC3UQ6AEILzAD#v=onepage&q=fundamental%20clock%20frequency%208b%2F10b%20encoding&f=false

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2016, 01:58:22 am
content: SOLD!