Which beginner's thermal imagers are usable? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2025, 06:44:53 am
content: Hello,I'm currently looking for an entry-level thermal imaging camera on Aliexpress and eBay (stand-alone device, no smartphone add-on).I want to use it for troubleshooting electric meter/junction boxes, circuit boards, and perhaps also for finding thermal bridges in buildings.Which ones are usable and which are junk?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 10:35:29 pm
content: I got this one a few years ago and it seems to be an accurate and useable unit for me. Still working very well.Mileseey Thermal Camera

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2025, 07:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 16, 2025, 10:35:29 pmOK, but 280 US$ is more than I want to risk on Aliexpress.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2025, 07:22:36 pm
content: Quote from: Greybeard on May 13, 2025, 06:44:53 amFinding a thermal camera is the easy part.But the (lack of) knowledge not so much.Go for at least an ITC Level 1 certification if you want to tell something meaningful about electrical inspection and the separate coarse for building inspection.It not like a dmm: for that you just need to be able to read

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2025, 08:42:18 pm
content: Guide PC210 for a tad over 200 bucks, and what they are going for at sales on foreign sale platforms.Would be where I place my coins if I were in the market for a decent stand-alone gun-style model.. been my view for quite a few years... haven't seen others that changed that..They had one of the market's best optimising algorithms, that's a factor that matters more than people likely expect, and its a model with fast boot times, and GuideIR Sensesmart is not a small vendor. They tend to know what they are doing.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2025, 05:39:03 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on May 17, 2025, 08:42:18 pmThis one is no more available and doesn’t meet the minimal required resolution of 320*240.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2025, 02:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on May 18, 2025, 05:39:03 amWhat are you talking about??

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2025, 03:00:17 pm
content: When it comes to “entry level” thermal imaging the buyer needs to be aware that you get what you pay for with this technology, unless you buy a used unit sold well under its original high price, as I doWith regard to new budget cameras, the Chinese are currently leaders in the market due to their mass production capabilities and development of the affordable 256x192 pixel cores that are found in many entry level cameras. There are also 120x90 and 160x120 pixel cores but I recommend buying 256x192 pixel cameras if your budget can be pushed to it. 160x120 pixels is still very useable for general tasks but 256x192 pixels do provide more easily interpretable images for beginners in this field. With 256x192 pixels the need for a visible light camera to create thermal fusion images becomes a “nice to have” rather than an essential feature.There are a few budget thermal camera manufacturers who produce cameras that are definitely not “junk”. As to which camera you choose to buy, that is a question that only you can answer because only you know your budget, needs and justification. It would be fair to say that most 256x192 pixel cameras from well known brands will deliver a decent thermal image. This is because they will use the Infiray Tiny1 or Guide Sensmart TIMO256 imaging core that captures the thermal image. Hikvision also make decent imaging cores but these are less common. Be warned, there are cameras advertising resolution that is not physical resolution, but rather, resolution after interpolation. Hikvision make a 96x96 pixel core that is commonly interpolated up to 240x240 pixels. HikMicro make this clear in their adverts for their cameras. Be wary of 1:1 aspect rations as this suggests the 96x96 pixel core that I cannot recommend where fine detail is needed.Most general purpose thermal cameras will need a close-up supplemental lens for close work on PCB’s but this forum has many posts on this topic and instructions on making such a supplemental close-up lens at low cost (~$20). Some camera manufacturers offer official close-up lenses that you can add to your camera without effort or modifications. They cost between ~$30 and ~$60 depending on the camera.Brands worth looking at for decent hand held budget thermal cameras…….Guide SensmartUNI-TrendHikMicroInfirayThermal MasterTopdonI have deliberately not included manufacturers who are well known, but comparatively expensive for what they are currently offering.Read about a particular camera model that catches your attention to ensure that it offers you the thermography functions that you need. Some offer good PC software for thermal analysis, others do not. Some have only “full auto” level and span, whilst others also offer manual control of level and span.Cameras are often the same camera under a different brand name so if they look the same and have the same specification, they are likely the same camera under another name.There is plenty of discussion on this forum regarding various models from these manufacturers. Do not be surprised if some posts are a few years old as decent cameras have been around a few years now and they continue to be good performers because even newer cameras often use the same imaging core.Finally, thermal imaging hardware is just part of the story. A new user needs to learn about how to use a thermal camera and how to interpret the images produced in order to make the best use of the technology. Learning from written training material and field practice is one approach, whilst formal thermography training is another, more expensive, but effective, approach.Fraser

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 09:42:11 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on May 17, 2025, 07:22:36 pmDo you sell such training courses?I think that's a bit of overkill to find a few hotspots.I don't plan on doing this professionally, but rather as a hobby.

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 09:46:59 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on May 17, 2025, 08:42:18 pmI found it on Aliexpress for about $250 and on eBay for $350.Is there a seller for about $200?

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:13:46 am
content: Quote from: Greybeard on May 21, 2025, 09:42:11 amNo, I don’t sell them, I followed them :-)Whether you do it as a pro for as a hobby doesn’t matter at all.It’ s like saying that only cab drivers need to use their seatbeltsOr when working on the electrical installation, one does not need to follow the best practices nor regulation because ‘I am not a professional’.If using thermography for electrical inspection, it is a quantitative measurement. So you need to know a lot about emission, reflection,conductivity, hot spots,…and have a lot of experience.For home inspection you can do qualitative measurement as long it is for finding moisture or a leakage.

author: Lydo Andrade
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 26, 2025, 02:53:47 am
content: I have Infiray P2 pro， topdon Tc001（returned）and Thermal Master（they sent me to test) and Flir one pro, these 4 I like the infiray most but seems they no longer exist, and the rest 3 Thermal Master seems better, and I think they're same brand actually

author: onesystem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 12:17:19 am
content: If you are looking at TOPDON TC004, you an get it udner the name of GC001 (looks like they contracted out their product to a different china company). On Amazon GC001 is way cheaper, but you get the same exact thing (just different colors). I verified - firmware updates for TC004 work on GC001.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2025, 07:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: Sorama on May 18, 2025, 05:39:03 amWhat did you mean when you said, it's not available anymore ?? (as OP also explained to you, it is) and why I highlighted it as a good entry tool, as you can get it for severly discounted prices at foreign sales, and why its attractive as a basic thermal entry gun.And where did you grasp the 320x240 "criteria" from?? as there is no mention about anything like that in the previous post... If you refer to "resolution" then separate between thermal and visual screen res.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 06:45:49 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on June 04, 2025, 07:24:32 pmIt’s your lack of knowledge on that topic, not mine.You want to know where that criteria came from?Start studying thermography, do your exams and after a few years you might understand .

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 09:24:47 am
content: Do you at any point plan to provide any meaningful rational for the claim of why lower resolution than 320x240, like a precise example, or what are some of tangible benefits of the certification you referred to.Going on like you do in your "counter arguments" - calling people ignorant for not seeing the same value in these two things as you do, leads to (as some have already asked you) thinking you either have financial interest in this certification or a case of sunken cost fallacy.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 11:47:35 am
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on June 05, 2025, 09:24:47 amWhere do you want me to start?Your question is like an ordinary person saying that the thinner a cable is the less electrical resistance it has.(I have had 2 electricians saying that to me)And I, with proper eduction and +35 years of experience, tell you:"No it is not like that. On the contrary".Then you say:"That's nonsense, it's pure logic. You're trying to sell me an expensive but useless certification".Where should I start to explain this to this person?Maybe by explaining how the specific resistance is relative to the length of the cable, but inversely relative to its surface?Or should I bring in the skin effect?At what frequency then? Frequency? Is it frequency dependent??How to explain what you have learned in 4 or 5 years at university in just a few sentences?You see, assuming you have some form of education that is relevant to this particular science, you should know that one cannot explain nor is it acceptable one has to, everything you learned during those years at university (or not) and your experience.But hey, still you will blame me for just trying to help you by saying: The thicker the cable, the lesser its resistance.The same goes for when a doctor says to you that you should eat less because of your overweight, drink less or not smoke.He really knows why, and is concerned about your health so he says to you: you should stop smoking.But again, you think he is fooling you, because he is not willing to explain you all he learned during his 7 years of study and his 35 year old career as a doctor.Or those people that measure wall temperature or hell, aluminium window frame by using a IR camera and don't have the slightest idea of what emission is, how you measure it and how you should be able to configure it on the camera.Not even aware of the tolerance IR cameras have, saying +/- 2°C at least. Not knowing what the immense impact is of reflection on those low emission materials like aluminium.They don't have the slightest clue of what they are measuring but when I say, sorry man, you can't measure the temperature of that window frame by using that IR thermometer, than he (you) will not believe me.Worse, you're telling me that I probably want you to sell an expensive camera and that I probably don't know a shit about thermography.So, again:if you do want to understand what people have been learning during formal education, have proof of successfully attained that specific certification, have invested tens of thousands of dollars or Euros into eduction, examination, camera's, been challenged by (other) experts in courts then all I can say is: do the same thing if you are not able to accept what I am suggesting you to (not) do.So: I'm telling you that you better look for a minimal IR resolution of 320*240.You don't believe me?fine, I couldn't care less.Keep on smoking like hell but don't say you haven't been warned why you should not.Your remarks/question is like those people who keep telling that a former American president stole the elections or Covid was a trick from the Democrats. Or even non existing.They (try to) project their ignorance on others.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 12:29:48 pm
content: Maybe time for this thread to cool down a little ?The OP mentioned using a thermal camera for various imaging tasks but wants a budget, very low cost, camera.It is correct for other forum members to warn that the tool is only part of the story in thermography. Yes, you need a thermal camera that has adequate real resolution, FOV and IFOV for a particular task, but the user must also be able to interpret what the camera displays on its screen. Failure to learn the basics of thermography can lead to users “chasing their tales” and making erroneous decisions based on misinterpretation of what a thermal camera is showing them. As has been stated, Emissivity is a property of targets that needs to be well understood if accurate measurements are required, but it also impacts what is seen in the thermal image. The reflectivity of targets can be a nightmare in some scenarios where the user sees the reflected temperature of the surrounding environs as well as their own body heat. There is much to learn about in thermography but basic competence is achievable through the study of the topic in training manuals and practical experience. A user can try to teach themselves about thermography or they can attend formal courses that may be a more efficient, though expensive, learning path.So let us all agree that using a thermal imaging camera for measurement work with zero understanding of the technology, how it works and basic good practice is not a great idea ? If a user just wants “pretty pictures” then they can use a thermal camera as they would any camera as their eye dictates whether the result is acceptable. No measurements ot image interpretation to be concerned aboutIf someone is intending to use a thermal imaging camera in a commercial role where money is charged for a thermal survey, many countries recommend, or require that the operator of the thermal camera is suitably qualified so that the customer receives good advice and a thermography report that stands up to peer review. Organisations exist who oversee building survey work and they make recommendations on what a customer should expect with certain types of surveys, including thermal surveys of buildings. There are recommendations for the minimum resolution of the thermal camera, though I note IFOV is not always specified and that is an oversight in my opinion. 320x240 real pixel resolution is indeed the common minimum specification for a building thermal survey camera. As I have stated though, the IFOV is also important as this determines the pixel on target size at a given working distance.UK guidance on building surveys….https://ukta.org/building-thermography/#:~:text=The%20UKTA%20looks%20to%20best,320%20%C3%97%20240%20pixel%20detector.OK, enough background…. What has all this to do with the OP’s question ?For starters the OP is asking for the lowest cost thermal camera that is actually useable. Useable for what ? I ask. He provides some examples of what he intends to use the thermal camera for and this is not stated as being commercial work, but our answers should warn the OP of the pitfalls for those new to thermal imaging. That is a duty of care from those who are familiar with thermography. As the OP has not suggested commercial use of the thermal camera it is not for us to say he must use a certain specification of equipment as lower specification equipment is often useable in a DIY situation. The new user pitfalls still apply though.Finally, whenever someone asks me what the cheapest useable thermal camera will cost, I tend to metaphorically walk away. There are too many variables at play and you tend to get what you pay for in thermal imaging, so buying “cheap” can come with all sorts of compromises. Explaining all this to a someone without a background in thermography takes time and that is not something I have a lot of at the moment.There is another recent thread on the forum where someone asked a similar question, but wanted the camera for building thermography. It is possible that some elements of that post have influenced answers given in this thread.Fraser

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2025, 01:33:29 pm
content: for the OP:I find finding and analyzing hot spots in electrical junctions pretty challenging because of the thermal reflection and the commonly low emission of the objects.There is by default a lot of heat generated and reflected onto all other objects and that makes it difficult to distinguish between a real hot spot and a reflection.After all, you want to make a decision if there is a bad contact or resistance so you know whether or not you should intervene.And frankly, I feel the same for finding thermal bridges in buildings.The slightest difference in surface because of dust or even change in color (depending whether it is daylight or not because emissivity changes pretty hard wrt the frequency of the light) will give a a quite big contrast on the screen, even though it has the same temperature !

author: vileslide
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2025, 04:01:30 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 18, 2025, 03:00:17 pmMan this post just gave me buyer's remorse - 1,5 yrs ago I purchased an IR camera for 220€ which only has 240x240 by HikMikro on Amazon. I cross-checked on Aliexpress and the price was the same.The prices seem to have come down a lot by then - did they really or did I get ripped off? I always thought the resolution left a lot to be desiredEdit: Yes I overpaid by 70€ because I apparently bought it just out of sale at the would be retail price -.-

author: vileslide
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2025, 07:25:31 am
content: Quote from: vileslide on June 14, 2025, 04:01:30 pmI was able to return it (thanks Amazon) and after reading through the forums, I'll buy the Guide PC210

author: NicoBrico
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 09, 2025, 06:32:46 am
content: Thermal Master 002. I read a few posts on the forum before buying, compared some models, and decided to go with the 002. The shipping was fast and the device works well.I used a FLIR E5 before. Personally I think the image quality on the 002 is better. It also has some more features. I haven’t gone through all of them yet.Recommend.